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Generation Zyklon Loves CRT
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Haha, any of you still remember that meme? It was admittedly some very good hopium from Audacious Epigone at the time. (Belated RIP to his blog).

But over time it became clear that the idea that zoomers were radically more “based” than previous generations was, at most, if not a complete myth – Richard Hanania mentioned that he couldn’t find anything about the methodology of the 2016 HS poll that supposedly had 81% of pupils voting for Trump – then at most a very temporary outburst of /pol/ meme-driven excitement that was soon confined back to its kennels by the Big Tech overlords and/or stamped out once they entered the universities. Subsequent polls have tended to show that zoomers are similar in outlook to millennials, and in fact more woke on some issues, such as personal pronouns and gender identities.

Well here’s a new poll to confirm that point (h/t Hanania).

That’s right, it seems like 46% of today’s College Republicans agree with CRT.

Moreover, so far as the woke Republican zoomers are concerned, their main difference from the Democrats is just that they want to pay less taxes while bombing more foreigners.

Nemets comments:

Anecdotally it seems right. At GOP meetings here the young people are supportive of most of the wokist pushes of 5 years ago, & only support GOP for tax cuts and militarism. Exceptions are the dwindling numbers of pious Christians.

Furthermore, a majority of students believe that the US history curriculum didn’t focus enough on race. As Hanania notes, “[it’s] clear that a vast majority either likes the current PC curriculum or wants it even more PC.”

Zoomer grugs reared on /pol/ and Big Brain “Facing Reality” readers might be “redpilled”, but so far as the normie majority is concerned CRT is part and parcel of Wokeism, the religion that has replaced Christianity for their generation.

And as such, like it or not, CRT is here to stay:

The Alt Right, /pol/, HBD autists, “radical centrists”, and anti-Woke grifters all failed. It is the true intellectual titans such as Ibram X. Kendi and Robin DiAngelo who have won the battle of ideas.

You will accept that, you will take the knee, you will acknowledge your white privilege, you will be happy.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Alt Right, Demographics, Generation Z, United States 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

  2. Wrong question. Ask instead; Do you believe that all white people are racist?

  3. Mitleser says:

    Speaking of Robin DiAngelo…

    Turning against her people for the sake of her own status…
    How many such individuals can the system endure without failing?

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Stealth
  4. Passer by says:

    Those in college are more to the lib/left than those is school. Still, i have looked at other studies back then and they showed way lower support for Trump among zoomers than this one from AE.

    In my estimates whites of european descent in the West will be fully taken over and then wiped out, due to certain cultural changes within them that point to that happening. They will not resist to that. Call it decadence, degeneration or whatever.

    Which is why i’m a non-western supporter – i see the non-west overall as healthier than the West, and as the only thing that can prevent a globalist take over.

    In this sense, all the western alt righters and western right wingers should abandon the sinking ship (just as i did) and support the rest of the world, including China, Russia and Iran. But that requires quite a leap from the old thinking.

    In a multipolar world, there is space for different systems, cultures, and sovereigns. In a globalist world, there is not.

    In a world where the West declines seriously there is a certain chance that some white western peoples may survive and have their own thing.

    But for that to happen, the Western Empire must go down first. Otherwise it is just trying to prop up the beast that will eat you later.

  5. Tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs to me.

    • Replies: @Rahan
  6. You will accept that, you will take the knee, you will acknowledge your white privilege, you will be happy.

    This glee is misplaced. Wokenism is the death of America. Unfortunately, it is the death of everything good (America as a country), but not of everything bad (America as an Empire) about it.

  7. Bashibuzuk says:

    Meanwhile in Moscow:

    Based and spiritually bonded, quite unlike the degenerate West…

    • Replies: @Passer by
    , @Levtraro
  8. Josh Kenn says:

    It is the most media savvy generation since the invention of mass media. You are not goin to catch them in polls. I have interacted with them. They value relationships over materialism and they do not trust anything from the corrupt establishment. That’s about all they have in common.

    Many of them are aware of the JQ and the NWO, if not most, but I can only catch what I overhear in the halls of the academy.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    , @reiner Tor
  9. Lokke says:

    Zoomer culture has been shaped by the Trump years, amid a climate of fear, paranoia, and hysteria that reached its apex in 2020 with Covid and BLM. TikTok, SnapChat and other social media are THE central aspect of Zoomer culture. Their general wokeness and extreme conformity are therefore unsurprising. Zoomers are definitely much less pro-Israel than all other generations though, and the dissident right crowd is almost exclusively composed of dissatisfied white male Millenials and especially Zoomers who are (either voluntarily or involuntarily) cut off from the increasingly disgusting and anti-white mainstream. Social alienation seems to be higher among Zoomers than among Millenials, and that leads to radicalization, both to the right (in the case of white males) and to the left (in the case of everybody else). So the “Generation Zyklon” label actually does have something to stand on.

    All of this however matters little in the long run. Youth culture is very volatile. The woke mania has only really taken hold during the Trump years, before that it was a bizarre fringe phenomenon, and the right was arguably making culture war inroads in the leadup to the 2016 election. Older French Zoomers are very nationalist and vote Le Pen, while younger ones are woke and vote for the far-left. Brazilian youth was going crazy for Bolsonaro just 3 years ago and now have swung in the opposite direction. Young Poles have suddenly embraced LGBT, while Swedes have swung to nationalism. Youth tends to adopt whatever the latest fad in society is. What matters is where the fads come from, and what forces are driving culture. I wouldn’t be surprised if the generation that comes of age during the Biden years is substantially different and less woke than current 18-24-year-olds as white identity politics starts to gain momentum and the right stages a culture war counter-attack.

    Also, we are entering a period of instability in the West that will last decades and likely end in a series of massive, violent, world-shaping events. When a society is faced with a crisis, opinions can radically change very quickly, the social mood tips over and a new order consolidates to fight against the perceived threat, whether real or not. Economic and demographic trends as well as major institutional change is what actually matters in the long run, not the opinions of the majority of the population. The left was able to capture institutions with minimal popular support. Power does not lie in public approval ratings or mainstream culture, but in the institutions that create and drive that culture.

  10. El Dato says:
    @Mitleser

    > People writing about the abuse they suffer in a sectarian closed-logic belief system that they have themselves created

  11. El Dato says:

    An ancillary question on the college questionnaire would have been whether believing harder in jewish / techno-feudalist propaganda (while having nonstop kumbaya fiestas and self-selected days off from school to help the climate) might help in belaying certain death from global warming?

  12. Kendi and DiAngelo are selling a narrative that Zoomers need to hear. It makes them feel powerful and virtuous. It allows them to combine an easy life of mundanity with the feeling of morally surpassing their parents merely by superficially emoting on the internet. It is narcissism packaged as hard-core analysis about the world.

    In this, as with illegal drugs, progressives are the true realists. Conservatives think they can morally disparage drugs or ban them; progressives recognise that they are addressing a deeper need, and seek to address it in ways which suit them.

    What narrative do conservatives sell that can satisfy the narcissism of the young, while also allowing them to transcend it?

    • Replies: @Charlotte
    , @dfordoom
  13. songbird says:

    It should be called Generation Tranny.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  14. @Passer by

    But for that to happen, the Western Empire must go down first. Otherwise it is just trying to prop up the beast that will eat you later.

    True.

    Imperial Washigton is in steep decline. Do not fight the dying beast. Prepare for it’s demise.

  15. @Josh Kenn

    Do not look at what they say to pollsters. Look at what they do. When I need a physician I go to the website of available people and I pick a male jew-name no exceptions. If I show up at his office and he doesn’t look like a male jew I turn around and walk right out but that has not ever happened. Your race celebrities are going to do the same thing if they know what is good for them.

  16. Jayce says:

    temporary outburst of /pol/ meme-driven excitement

    Edgy teens have always thought Hitler looked cool and holocaust jokes were funny. Go to a public park in any small town in America and you’ll invariably find a crudely drawn swastika carved somewhere between the Metallica logo and “class of 92 rules” on a picnic table. For some reason people got all carried away thinking it was for real this time.

  17. 216 says: • Website
    @Lokke

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the generation that comes of age during the Biden years is substantially different and less woke than current 18-24-year-olds as white identity politics starts to gain momentum and the right stages a culture war counter-attack.

    This is cope. Until the Right (or someone else) can break the stranglehold that the left has on culture, the society will continue to degenerate.

    Zoomer culture has been shaped by the Trump years, amid a climate of fear, paranoia, and hysteria that reached its apex in 2020 with Covid and BLM. TikTok, SnapChat and other social media are THE central aspect of Zoomer culture.

    The only solution I see here is Redstani parents adopting a Ted Kaczynski approach to their children’s technology use.

    • Replies: @kzn
    , @Indiana Jack
    , @Levtraro
  18. songbird says:

    Hard to imagine an end to this.

    Communism in Eastern Europe seems like it was partly brought down by virtue-signaling. Ex: during the production of “Amadeus”, actors unfurled a secret American flag and stood for it. I can’t see something analogous to that happening now. There is no way to virtue signal out of this mess.

    Maybe, we really are locked into an IQ collapse.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  19. 216 says: • Website

    The Alt Right, /pol/, HBD autists, “radical centrists”, and anti-Woke grifters all failed. It is the true intellectual titans such as Ibram X. Kendi and Robin DiAngelo who have won the battle of ideas.

    You will accept that, you will take the knee, you will acknowledge your white privilege, you will be happy.

    Spoken (again, and again) like the liberal you really are.

    American conservatives, not Franz Fanon’s Africans, are the real wretched of the Earth.

  20. AaronB says:

    Its meaningless.

    It’s like when in Medieval times people were educated to “turn the other cheek” etc etc.

    People pay lip service to the public religion and do whatever they want anyways.

    Christians never acted Christian, Buddhists never acted Buddhist, etc. It would shock most here but Judaism is full of sayings that you shouldn’t care about money and should not try and become wealthy.

    In fact, the spooner CRT becomes an official religion the more easily people will pay lip service to it while dismissing it.

    Official religions also have to be “crazy”. Christianity and Buddhism seemed nuts to the reasonable Greeks and Confucians.

    Religion always must defy common sense and pragmatism.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @reiner Tor
  21. AaronB says:

    Conservatives will increasingly pay the price for their inability to go “meta” and to appreciate paradox and practice double-think.

    Conservatives basically take everything super literally and never get the joke. They can never understand how surface appearance doesn’t reflect what is actually going on.

  22. mal says:

    As a bit of an accelerationist, I fully support CRT.

    As I told my wife recently, what is it all about? CRT teaches:

    1. Truth is racist.
    2. Team White is superior to all others (white supremacy).
    3. Being on Team White gives you perks (white privilege).

    Therefore, join the winning team. For perks and winning ways. Go Team White! Don’t apologize, embrace your power.

    For the record, biorealist Latina females are not averse to this message outright. Even if liberal in general outlook.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @BlackFlag
    , @Corvinus
  23. kzn says:
    @216

    From what I see, Republicans in America have more degenerate sleaze scandals….. and the pro-Abortion laws were brought in during a Republican majority Supreme Court during the time of Nixon.

    So-called anti-vietnam war movement in America is hardly much different than the pro-war one – both very happy for numerous wars after it serving America’s geopolitical or satanic aims….. just provided it doesn’t involve too many American lives.

    Mass immigration is notoriously a right-wing economic policy

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  24. xxxeliss says:
    @Lokke

    a small minorty of gen z (mostly men) are rigth wing ,but the average gen z is a moderate progressive

    • Replies: @216
  25. 216 says: • Website
    @xxxeliss

    Right wing content has been either banned or neutered on all Big Tech platforms.

    Non-Anglos don’t get what “fair play” means to us.

    The left’s hold is fundamentally illegitimate, it must not be legitimized and dodged, as most here seem to want.

    The Right played by the rules, the Left changed the rules, and banned us when we pointed it out.

    • Agree: Rosie
  26. This blog omits the most important thing: gen z where? Gen z on the imperial patch is one thing (pretty depressing), but the same generation is Russia, China, Iran, many Asian countries, or in Latin America is very different.

    Recent example. Russian grocery chain “ВкусВилл” (loose translation: taste city) not just withdrew its ad featuring a lesbian “family”, but publicly apologized to customers for its appearance.

    • Thanks: Dreadilk, Levtraro
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  27. Passer by says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    I was critical of that too. But what do you think of those recent chinese and austrian assessments that Russia is moving away from western values? These media are certainly not working for Putin.

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/6887261.html

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1227805.shtml

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  28. @AnonfromTN

    Well, I wrote about Russia’s here: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/what-does-russians-generation-z-think/

    The Vkusville episode is funny, if not directly unrelated. Still, it does rather discredit the efforts of a certain seething individual on this board who believes that a cross-dresser appearing at SPIEF or a Tajik girl singing for Russia on Eurovision is equivalent to America refocusing its entire historiography around white privilege… which is kind of life if Russian school textbooks were rewritten around the theme of “Great Russian chauvinism” under the Russian Empire.

    [MORE]

    • Agree: Boomthorkell
    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
  29. SafeNow says:
    @WorkingClass

    “Wrong question. Ask instead; Do you believe that all white people are racist?”

    Yes, definitely ask that question. But I will go a step further:

    “Do you believe that the white race should cease to exist?”

    • Agree: WorkingClass
  30. @216

    The only solution I see here is Redstani parents adopting a Ted Kaczynski approach to their children’s technology use.

    That approach certainly seems to be working for the Amish. In addition to avoiding modern technology, they attend school only through the 8th grade (usually Amish schools that use their own textbooks and teachers), live and socialize within their own community, work in family businesses and shun relatives who leave the Church. Unlike other conservative religious groups, their children usually stay within the fold (with retention rates around 85-90%), so that they have a cohesive and growing subculture, unaffected by many of the trends in modern American society.Their numbers are doubling every 20 years or so, and are projected to reach one million by mid-century.

    • Replies: @songbird
  31. It is interesting to see that perhaps for the first time in 80 years, America is perhaps more culturally progressive than much of Western Europe. Western Europe, despite being historically more forward thinking, has much less woke elements than the US.

    • Agree: Coconuts
  32. @Lokke

    Poland is largely “vaccinated” in a way against wokeism in that it was under authoritarian communism that means that most people there are heavily dismissive of left wing politics.

    • Replies: @216
  33. Mitleser says:
    @kzn

    From what I see, Republicans in America have more degenerate sleaze scandals….. and the pro-Abortion laws were brought in during a Republican majority Supreme Court during the time of Nixon.

    And not just the pro-abortion policy of the Nixon era was problematic for them.

    As the government invented new standards for what counts as “discrimination,” it was forcing more aggressive action on the part of the private sector. Executive Order 11246, signed by President Johnson, required all government contractors and subcontractors who did over $10,000 in government business to “take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, color, religion, sex or national origin.” The category of “sex” was added in 1967. In 1969, Richard Nixon signed EO 11478, which forced affirmative action onto the federal government itself.

    https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/woke-institutions-is-just-civil-rights

  34. Most Zoomers actually really don’t care that much. Look at their voter turnout rates for proof, many simply don’t vote at all and are rather ignorant of politics. I say this as a Zoomer myself (albeit not an American one).

  35. songbird says:
    @Indiana Jack

    One of the weak spots of the Amish is that it seems likely that the increasingly totalitarian regime will just mandate that they be enrolled in woke public schools k-12. I’m not sure that they could survive a blow like that.

  36. Passer by says:

    Australians move to escape liberalism in Siberia.

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
  37. The mere thought of Conservatism in a nation with only a few hundred years of history populated by rootless people from all corners of the earth is hilarious. True conservatism can only be found in certain parts of Europe; primarily the Mediterranean (not the German barbarians up north), a few scattered parts of the Middle East and some parts of East Asia where there remain ancient institutions and memories. Hence, why in values surveys American Conservatives seem only marginally less wishy washy than their Leftist friends whereas in the places listed above, certain values remain immovable.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  38. Max Payne says:

    Every time I see CRT in the corner of my eye I think of this:

    and PC this:

    People need to stop making up fake and gay terms if they want me to stop treating them like fake and gay non-humans.

    If they taught Cathode-Ray Tubes in schools maybe more kids will catch wise and not spend thousands of dollars on overpriced, under performing hoax machines (aka Apple).

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Thanks: Californian Candidate
    • Replies: @UNIT472
    , @Sollipsist
  39. UNIT472 says:

    I didn’t need CRT as a school subject because, thanks to the US Supreme Court, I got to observe negro behavior first hand in school for a year. Up until 1968 I attended all white schools in Fairfax,Virginia but, upon my parents divorce ,I was enrolled in Berkeley High School in California.

    The student body then was about 60% white ( mostly the children of UC Berkeley faculty and staff) and about 40% black ( half of whom were probably using phony addresses to escape the Oakland, Ca. school system). I had even seen some official propaganda about how ‘successful integration’ had been in Berkeley High. It was anything but. The school may have been integrated but not the classrooms.

    There was just now way negro students from the ghetto were going to pass a math or physics class sitting in a room full of white kids whose parents taught those subjects at UC Berkeley! It was, as we said at the time, ‘mind blowing’ to see, for the first time up close and personal, just how stupid the negro actually was. In order to enable the negro kids to graduate, the high school administrators quickly slapped together a ‘Black Studies’ program and waived the requirement that teachers hold a college degree and be credentialed so as to allow 21 year old negro junior college graduates to conduct the ‘classes’. I even enrolled in an Afro American history class just to see what was going on.
    It was comical. The teacher handed out a copy of the black Muslim newspaper “Muhammed Speaks’ as the course syllabus! Problem was even the Black Muslim newspaper was above the reading level of teen age negroes.

    The only thing the negro boys were interested in was chasing after the white girls from the ‘Hills’ and swaggering around in black leather “Huey Newton style” leather coats. I imagine most of them ended up shot to death or imprisoned by 40.

  40. UNIT472 says:
    @Max Payne

    When I spilled another drink on my desk dwelling laptop ( the second one in a year) and was told it would be cheaper to just replace it even though I had bought a cheap HP laptop I remembered this never happened when I had a PC. Might have to buy a new keyboard but the monitor and computer circuitry could not be inundated with coffee or Pepsi ( OK, it sometimes had a little rum in it too) if, reaching for something, I spilled my drink. I asked the shop owner if he had any used PCs I could buy. He did so I walked out with a used PC got my old monitor out of the closet and now my gear lies comfortably higher on my desk and invulnerable to liquid infiltration.

  41. Some Guy says:

    One interesting finding is that the effect of genetics on liberalism-conservatism is very low for the youngest and oldest people:

    Not sure if that’s been replicated. Since the environment is increasingly liberal, while the gene pool is increasingly conservative, I would expect to see rapid increases in conservatism in people’s 20s and 50s, and rapid decrease in people 75+, but not sure if there’s any evidence for that.

    • Replies: @Some Guy
  42. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Passer by

    Colonel Cassad (Boris Rozhin) is a Crimean neo-Stalinist, he often publishes interesting blog posts about military things and/or geopolitics. But I wouldn’t take what he writes about the RusFed politics seriously. Global times is the official English language publication of the Chinese government, nuff said…

    Karlin has himself provided the “Soviet Freezer ” explanation for the more conservative attitudes of the former Warsaw Pact societies. They are simply lagging behind a generation or so. But the opinions of the Moscow and Saint Petersburg youths are way closer to their Western, South Corean or Japanese counterparts than the propaganda would let us think.

    Globalization and technological change determine a lot of social attitudes and mores. Kids in RusFed big cities are connected to the world 24/7 and RusFed ruling elites are fully globalized. Russian people want to live as the Western middle class and embrace materialistic consumerism. That is all we need to know to figure out what will occur in the next generation.

    I would wish it wouldn’t have been that way, but it is what it is.

    • Agree: BB753, dfordoom
    • Replies: @216
    , @Passer by
    , @TCPS
  43. @Agathoklis

    I guess that’s why Southern Europe and East Asia are the most cucked with the lowest fertility rates, highest rates of transgenderism, and effeminate degeneracies.

  44. 216 says: • Website
    @HomosapiensPlus

    There is no “vaccine”, there is a “freezer”.

    Most Republicans in the US now support GayPride.

  45. 216 says: • Website
    @Bashibuzuk

    Kids in RusFed big cities are connected to the world 24/7 and RusFed ruling elites are fully globalized.

    The solution is a combination of Xi Jinping and Ted Kaczynski.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  46. BlackFlag says:
    @mal

    But the result is the opposite: it provides moral legitimacy for team anti-White to increase the discrimination against Whites and demoralizes Whites from ceding their states. Whites simply cower rather than fight back. At least they have so far. Haven’t seen evidence that CRT will make them change.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @mal
  47. Right_On says:

    Not come across the label ‘Generation Zyklon’ before, but I see it refers to based, young right-wingers.
    When I saw the term, I thought it was a dig at Zoomers who have been so indoctrinated by constant exposure to The Holocaust narrative and accusations of white racism that they have become ashamed, compliant followers of liberal orthodoxies.

  48. Charlotte says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    What narrative do conservatives sell that can satisfy the narcissism of the young, while also allowing them to transcend it?

    Doesn’t pride in and piety towards one’s race/nation/ethny and one’s ancestors traditionally fill this need? It gives people a sense of specialness, while putting them to the task of living up or even surpassing their fore-bearers.

  49. Bashibuzuk says:
    @216

    I wrote about Archeofuturism already. That would be it:

    “Archeofuturism”, a concept coined by Faye in 1998, refers to the reconciliation of technoscience with “archaic values”.[20] He argues that the term “archaic” should be understood in its original Ancient Greek, that is to say as the ‘foundation’ or the ‘beginning’, not as a blind attachment to the past.[11] According to Faye, anti-moderns and counter-revolutionaries are actually mirror-constructs of modernity that share the same biased linear conception of time. Defining his theories as “non-modern”, Faye was influenced by Friedrich Nietzsche’s concept of eternal return and Michel Maffesoli’s post-modern sociological works.[11]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_Faye

    In general, GRECE thinkers have already defined a lot of what need be done for our survival.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRECE

    • Replies: @Agathoklis
  50. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Charlotte

    Unfortunately many among the so-called Conservatives do not see the value of their ancestry.

  51. @Charlotte

    Doesn’t pride in and piety towards one’s race/nation/ethny and one’s ancestors traditionally fill this need? It gives people a sense of specialness, while putting them to the task of living up or even surpassing their fore-bearers.

    No, you’re talking about something that is bigger than yourself, but I talking about something that makes you bigger than that something.

  52. Is anyone surprised AmNat Boomers are on the wrong side of history on this as well?

    Zoomers are serious political actors. Boomers kvetching about CRT are not.

    • Replies: @216
  53. @Passer by

    The non-West exists only as opposition to the West. If the West disappears the non-West will become the new West.

    It will grow like Topsy and become as tyrannical as the West or even moreso. That is the nature of the lust for control over others.

  54. Ha ha, yeah. Hope is not a good feeling to invest in, not here. Well, at least not hope aimed in the short term.

    Still, we’ve always got out own circles, and with good skill there is always a chance to prosper here, even amongst madness, and elsewhere amongst the righteous. I suppose the joy of these times is the struggle against evil, subtly and loudly, and doing ones part. It’s even more exciting when you’re the underdog, right? What’s more American- Cowboy -Settler -City -Slicker Eat Pack than that?

    Happy Independence Day! Down with the British Empire (2.0)! This whole experiment was a wild ride, and for its evil and horror, one must love what one is, wherever one is. I hope they further drag it all down, and then maybe afterwards, we can make it better than it ever was. Well, that or I guess I’ll be Americana elsewhere, trying to help another’s land the land they want it to be.

    Your blog has always been wonderful and insightful, AK. Here’s to an exciting future and the rise of a God-Emperor to free us from our petty squabbles. Putin and Xi are fine stand-ins in the meantime.

  55. IOW, we should stick a fork in any hopes for the restoration of the Republic.

    Happy “Independence” Day.

  56. Stealth says:
    @Mitleser

    LOL. Am I the only one who ever notices that black people don’t want to be friends with white people? Yeah, yeah, I know there are exceptions, however rare, to every rule, but the truth is that virtually the only black people who want to socialize across racial lines are black men pursuing sex with white women. Other than that, they have no social interest in white people at all. It’s like oil and water.

    • Replies: @mal
  57. @Bashibuzuk

    The ideas defined by GRECE only really make sense in Europe (and probably a few others places with ancient histories) but not the United States. Hence, why GRECE-related thinkers are anti-American. They see the United States as a danger to GRECEist ideas.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  58. mal says:
    @BlackFlag

    Couple of things going on here.

    1. “Shit test”, as described by Men’s Rights Activists and others in the similar line of thinking.

    2. ” People of Long Will” selection as described by Lev Gumilev in his works, when he was talking about why Temujin was able to unite the tribes and why the likes of Subuday were working for him.

    Both describe roughly similar phenomenon.

    The TLDR version is “Jews be trolling” and American Empire fights to win. There is a reason why Elon Musk tweets about “robot catgirls” when its absolutely not appropriate in modern culture.

    Those with unconventional views will go to work for Pentagon subcontractors and those with conventional views will be radicalized into a cannon fodder. CRT is the filter.

    It’s all a giant shit test. White people outside of the Pentagon superstructure are to be eliminated. White people inside the Pentagon superstructure are to be given full power.

  59. 216 says: • Website
    @Supply and Demand

    Youth turnout at the lowest rates in US elections. The old turn out at the highest rates.

    The problem is that the nature of Con Inc limits the legislative response.

    What the controlled opposition Rufo types want is:

    -Banning some materials from being taught in K-12

    Which liberals in the bureaucracy and judiciary will easily dodge. It’s easily memed as “censorship”

    What is actually needed:

    -Defunding hostile academic departments
    -Imposing partisan quotas in public universities
    -Abolishing affirmative action
    -Making political ideology a protected class (turning civil rights law against itself)

    If the base could be informed and radicalized to demand the latter, there could be an impact.

    So it’s important for our people to call out Rufo as controlled opposition.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  60. Rahan says:
    @40 Lashes Less One

    Tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs to me.

    KNEEL BEFORE THE SAME OLD ORDER,
    YOU’RE NO KINGS – ONLY PAWNS,

    YOU’RE WAITING FOR TOMORROW, WELL TOMORROW NEVER COMES,
    HA, YOU’RE WAITING FOR YOUR NEW DAWN, SO SAD TO SAY THERE ISN’T ONE,
    BECAUSE, (YOU FOOLS) TOMORROW BELONGS TO NOBODY,

    TOMORROW – BELONGS TO NOBODY

    Carcass ’96 “Swansong”

  61. @216

    Youth turnout at the lowest rates in US elections.

    That’s precisely why they’re serious political actors. There are no electoral solutions.

    -Defunding hostile academic departments
    -Imposing partisan quotas in public universities
    -Abolishing affirmative action
    -Making political ideology a protected class (turning civil rights law against itself)

    Hostile to whom? Fragile white boomers? Most US academics seem to show sensitivity the ideology of their students quite well. Failure to comply like that Weinstein prof at Evergreen resulted in his dismissal. That’s the system working as intended.

    This is how academia works everywhere. Do you think I would offend my students’ political sensibilities here in China? That’s not my job — my job is to teach them about linguistic morphology expressed in machine learning AI. If they find material ideologically objectionable, I will present the material to the Communist Party Academic Consultative Committee Chair at the university, wait for his determination, and change or maintain the material accordingly.

    • Replies: @216
  62. 216 says: • Website
    @Supply and Demand

    In a GOP majority state, a majority of academics should be conservatives.

    This is the bare minimum required for self-determination.

    Wilson wrote the check with the Fourteen Points, now I intend to have it cashed.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  63. @216

    The same GOP that voted unanimously to displace the Fourth of July with Afro-Revenge Holiday Juneteenth and elected Donald J. (((Trump))) as president who ran on the Platinum Plan in 2020?

    Curious definition of conservative. I’d say the Communist Party here is a bit more conservative than that. If your metric of conservative is the GOP, you should have no issue finding academics, then. Carry on.

    I suspect your institutions will have more Jews than the Blue Yankee ones as well.

  64. mal says:
    @Stealth

    Not in my experience. I get along with blacks very well, and they are very based compared to white liberals.

    Funny anecdote – I’m a chemical engineer and when Q Shaman became Senator (briefly), i was running production in Atlanta, GA. The take on Q Shaman from a black Georgian chemical lab quality assurance lady?

    “At least they knew the right place to storm. Unlike our riots that burn down our own homes”.

    Outside of totally retarded faction, most blacks know they need whites to be successful. Learn to recognize the retards, and you will be fine even in Chicago South Side as a white guy.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Thanks: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Stealth
  65. CRT is an interesting theory, and deserves critique, not worship. Banning it is bad, and glorifying it even worse. Study it alongside Marxian class theory and ‘liberal democracy’ that Disneyland faery story. Perhaps a synergy is possible.

  66. • Agree: mal
    • LOL: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Beckow
  67. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Agathoklis

    I am not writing about “places”, I am writing about “people “. Countries, nations, that’s secondary. People come first.

  68. @Passer by

    [MORE]

    How did you come upon this video? Was it suggested to you by the YouTube algorithm or did you search for it? Some other connection?

    • Replies: @Passer by
  69. Levtraro says:
    @Passer by

    We must distinguish among all those non-western powers. Russia and China are OK because they are secular and pragmatic but Iran is a religious fanaticism shithole, run by ayatollahs and revolutionary guards. We know for certain that religious fanatics are crazy and evil.

    Also, we in the West don’t really want the Western Empire to go down, rather we want it to be counter-balanced by similar powers. For us sane individuals that mind our own businesses, as opposed to those ambituous mediocrities that control government institutions, the best situation is one of rival governments cancelling each other in as many respects as possible, both ideologically and militarily.

    • Replies: @Wignat is a slur
  70. Levtraro says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    Those examples don’t matter. Everybody wants to have a bit of fun and clearly blacks and browns are fun when they do music and sports. I used to play football with Nigerians and other Africans, the only white guy in the pitch, and it was great football. I just had to avoid celebrations as in scoring because of the insufferable body odour and the rains of sweat, although that was not always possible without alerting my football mates of my mindscape, so had the endure it some times.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  71. Levtraro says:
    @216

    This is cope. Until the Right (or someone else) can break the stranglehold that the left has on culture, the society will continue to degenerate.

    Well, they lost the economy so they went for culture as consolation prize.

  72. @HomosapiensPlus

    Missionary activity is unurprisingly less among the converted.

  73. @Levtraro

    Iran is the world’s only Platonic state

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  74. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Levtraro

    I agree that there is good fun to be had with people of other races and ethnicities. As long as everyone is aware of the differences and the potential outcomes if these differences are ignored.

    The examples I posted were to counter AK’s assessment of RusFed as being fundamentally different of the globalized West when younger generations are considered. It used to be different, it still is to some extent, but it is moving in the same direction and lagging behind a little.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
  75. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Wignat is a slur

    And Illuminationist on top of that.

  76. Bashibuzuk says:

    The opinions of the RusFed youth according to a december 2020 study by the Russian Academy of Science.

    From the excellent Telegram Blog by Pavel Pryannikov (Tolkovatel)

    Russian youth want peace, democracy and order. This is shown by a study by the Institute of Social and Political Research of the Russian Academy of Sciences (Vestnik YRSTU, No. 2, 2021).

    The survey was conducted in December 2020.

    Some positions from this work:

    Russia should actively develop relations with the rest of the world – 49%, relations between Russia and the rest of the world should remain as they are now – 12%.

    – 29% of Russian youth answered that they would prefer a capitalist society, 17% of young Russians chose socialism for life (the rest do not care or do not know).

    – The policy of development, independence and prosperity of Russia should be based on such concepts as “peace” (50%) and “law” (50%).

    From one fifth to half of the young people surveyed, the image of the country’s future socio-political development was associated with the realization and existence of “human rights” (38%), “order” (31%), “justice” (29%), “freedom” (26 %), “creativity ” (23%), “democracy” (22%).

    – Outsiders among Russian youth were such concepts as “state” (17%), “statehood” (15%), “Russian empire” (13%), “spirituality” (7%), “nation” (6%) , “Religiosity” (2%), “Orthodoxy” (2%).

    Youth forecast “In the next 5 years”:

    – The standard of living of the population: it will get better – 32%, it will get worse – 27%, it will remain the same – 41%.

    – The only answer where negative evaluations outweighed positive ones. Development of democracy, rights and freedoms of citizens: it will get better – 18%, it will get worse – 21%, 61% will not change.

    Wait, Russian Zoomers are kinda similar to Western Zoomers? Always were…

    • Replies: @Coconuts
  77. Levtraro says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    Yeah, this is what I intended to contradict: those videos show people everywhere enjoy fun music by blacks and browns but they are not indicative of a westernizing trend among Russ youngsters anymore than me playing football with blacks was indicative of me becoming woke.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  78. Rahan says:

    “CRT & HRT” is the core value of today’s progressives.

    • LOL: Wignat is a slur
  79. Some Guy says:
    @Some Guy

    The age-effect seems to have been replicated* and it seems that it’s caused by young adults moving away from home*, which causes part of the shared environmental effect to get replaced by genetic effects. People with conservative genes are more likely to have conservative shared environments if they’re raised by their biological parents, so the effect on average conservatism may be about the same even if the cause changes from shared environment to the individual’s genes.

    If you’ve got adopted children though, don’t be surprised if they take after their biological parent’s liberalism/conservatism after they move away from home.

    *http://local.psy.miami.edu/faculty/dmessinger/c_c/rsrcs/rdgs/temperament/bouchard.04.curdir.pdf

    *https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231829764_Genetic_and_Environmental_Transmission_of_Political_Attitudes_Over_a_Life_Time

    • Replies: @Wency
  80. Stealth says:
    @mal

    How well you get along with them on the job is beside the point, though. If I had to put money on it, I would say you don’t socialize with black people outside of work. When I use the word friend, I’m not talking about mere acquaintances, even ones you know well.

  81. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Levtraro

    Please see my comment # 76.

    Are these opinions expressed by Russian youth that different from what you would find among the Western youngsters?

    Of particular interest for me is this part:

    – Outsiders among Russian youth were such concepts as “state” (17%), “statehood” (15%), “Russian empire” (13%), “spirituality” (7%), “nation” (6%) , “Religiosity” (2%), “Orthodoxy” (2%).

    That is the level of relative importance of these concepts among RusFed Zoomers. Basically, they don’t care.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
  82. Svevlad says:

    God damn, how many Tiananmens do we need to clean house?

    Call me whatever the hell you want, but the only actual vaccine against this idiocy is a hearty dose of lead applied externally.

  83. It’s called pathological altruism. The desire/need to virtue signal to the point of actual detriment to one’s self or immediate family. Multiply that by millions of people including those who shape and guide policy, and this is what you get.

  84. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    It would shock most here but Judaism is full of sayings that you shouldn’t care about money and should not try and become wealthy.

    Damn Shylock, I can’t believe you are baring your soul like this in public.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  85. Passer by says:
    @Blinky Bill

    I found it since i was following these people’s story, they were mentioned in various rus media.

    • Thanks: Blinky Bill
  86. Passer by says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    Colonel Cassad (Boris Rozhin) is a..

    He is citing the austrian Der Standard, if you did not notice. So as i mentioned, foreigners see Russia moving away from the West. The EU foreign policy chief Borrell himself said so.

    So why do they think like this?

    https://russian.rt.com/inotv/2021-07-04/Der-Standard-novaya-Strategiya-nacionalnoj

    But the opinions of the Moscow and Saint Petersburg youths are way closer to their Western, South Corean or Japanese counterparts than the propaganda would let us think.

    They seem to be divided between patriots and liberals, as per a poll Karlin posted, plus they express a significant support for Putin, and a significant percentage of them voted for the new constitution.

    Btw they do not see Russia as a european country or themselves as europeans, as per some other recent polls. Even as per your poll the importance of so called”democracy” is only 22 %.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnzdFCdYsmc

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  87. Exile says:

    The mistake AK’s bogeyman “Alt Right” made was in trying to play for poll results in the first place.

    These polls demonstrate that “democratic” governments impose ideology on their “sovereign” citizens, not the other way around. Everyone beyond America First/Alt-Lite grifters in American oppositional politics has realized that you can’t vote Jewish power out of power – the Lesson of Trump.

    America or muh West in general will not be changed by a “battle of ideas.” They will be changed as the USSR was – through material and social collapse and Balkanization.

  88. AaronB says:
    @iffen

    What, it’s not a secret Jews are wealthy and love money. It’s actually a complicated subject and “money” was a “sublimated” form of power, conquest, and autonomy to Jews who no longer had their own state and who lived as a despised minority – it was not just “greed” or desire for material possessions. In fact it’s not at all about mere material possessions.

    The funny thing is, when you read the Jewish religious texts there is a severe anti-money strain throughout.

    Jewish scholarship was also a sublimated will to power. The OT does not depict the Jews as especially preoccupied with scholarly pursuits.

    [MORE]

    Similar to how the Japanese developed their economy as a form of aggressive warfare after they lost as physical warriors.

    The”will to power” can take many forms, and if it is thwarted in one area, it will mutate and find another.

    People have an innate need for dignity, self respect, and personal autonomy, and in it’s more aggressive forms, conquest – in short, the will to power. That too is a complicated subject and the higher spirituality is based on recognizing that this need for power is based on the delusion that one is not already part of everything (but that’s just fairy dust or whatever to a “hard headed” realist like you. Realism being defined as a a limited and partial view)

  89. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Passer by

    Btw they do not see Russia as a european country or themselves as europeans

    And neither do I. But in the time of Globalization it is irrelevant. China is not European, doesn’t prevent them from being among top Globalists and walk at the forefront of the Technosphere development. It doesn’t prevent RusFed from being the Globalization bottom either. Also have a look at my comment # 76.

    • Replies: @Passer by
  90. @WorkingClass

    Yes, better.

    Also, as I recall the “Generation Zyklon” data, it was generally restricted to white Gen-Z. These more recent data are all Gen-Z. Given that Gen-Z are already minority-majority, that’s a big difference.

    And shout out to Gen-X, the only generation to swim upstream against the tide of materialism!

    Finally:

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    , @Corvinus
  91. Passer by says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    China is not European, doesn’t prevent them from being among top Globalists

    They are trade globalists, not value globalists. Not interested in spreading their way of life. They don’t believe that everyone can be chinese either. They don’t care about what barbarians do. They built a wall to isolate themselves from others. Back then, it was the Great Wall of China. These days, it is called the Great Firewall of China.

    But in the time of Globalization

    On the contrary, there is gradual formation of clusters with different views and values, different IT systems, different payments systems – in other words – the formation of multipolarity. With russian pole, chinese pole, shia pole, indian pole, turkish pole, US pole, EU pole, etc. Later there will be others too.

    Also have a look at my comment # 76.

    I saw it and i mentioned other polls and votes. In your own poll, 22 % seeing democracy as important sounds very unwestern.

    And btw – why do you think that foreigners think that Russia is moving away from the West, again?

  92. Levtraro says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    I saw that comment. Those low percentages of affinity with those concepts don’t mean much either. Young people everywhere have more affinity with sports, music and sex than with anything else. It doesn’t mean Russ youth are becoming westernized, it just means they are young and they live in a free, secular country.

  93. @HomosapiensPlus

    In Western Europe Gen Z is majority White In the United States the majority of Gen Z are Non-White.

    In the US the majority of the people under the age of 40. Benefit from woke ideology. Just 25% are straight white males 70% benefit from the great awakening.

  94. @WorkingClass

    You’re trying to excuse the newest generation of cockroaches bred by this continent-wide shithole called the United States. It doesn’t matter if the nymphs say “no” to the question “Are all white people racist?” if they support CRT. That’s because if they do say “no”, they just mean that they and a few of their equally “woke” friends aren’t racist, but the vast majority of Whites, including all older Whites are.

  95. Beckow says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Each generation’s ideology reflects the position they are in: zoomers are at the bottom of the pyramide with minimal material prospects, yet generally comfortable. You can’t preach to them about entrepreneurship or utopian socialism – they know those are yesterday’s ideas.

    Zoomers don’t benefit from the current financial order: they are short on assets and the previous generations stuck them with huge debts. Predictably they want a financial reset: inflation or if the elderly resist they will use harsher methods.

    The woke stuff reflects where they are materially: most conform to the ruling uber-idealism to protect their prospects. Some are using it to make careers since that is one of the few ways left. There are a few true believers, hysterics like Greta, promoted by the oligarchs for a reason: cover to do what they want to do, a distraction.

    If you think that the zoomers are sincere when answering the surveys you don’t understand how it works. They are as normal as all of us and act rationally. If things change, they will change their answers.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  96. @Beckow

    If you think that the zoomers are sincere when answering the surveys you don’t understand how it works. They are as normal as all of us and act rationally.

    Do you think that being insincere and acting rationally are the ways in which everyone acts?

    • Replies: @Beckow
  97. Beckow says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    For a potentially loaded survey, it is rational for a zoomer to be insincere. Enough people will act that way to skew he numbers, that has always been the case with every generation.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  98. You will accept that, you will take the knee, you will acknowledge your white privilege, you will be happy.

    You failed as well. You just had a bolt hole, unlike the majority of those in the West.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  99. Most youth don’t have strongly formed opinions.

    You could sit them in front of a debate on any topic, and by the end of it half will have changed their minds.

  100. Not Raul says:

    What’s going on with GenX?

    According to the chart, belief in God jumps between 1998 and 2000, and then fluctuates around a much higher level, as belief declines among other groups. It’s intriguing.

    What happened between 1998 and 2000? It’s too early for 9/11. Did Jesus save America from the y2k apocalypse? Did access to online chat-rooms, Geocities, Yahoo Directory, Gnuhoo, Free Republic, Harold Camping, etc. Jesus-pill GenXers?

    Could this have helped W, Rummy, & Dick Chimpheart gain power?

    • Replies: @Ray P
  101. Not Raul says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Also, as I recall the “Generation Zyklon” data, it was generally restricted to white Gen-Z. These more recent data are all Gen-Z. Given that Gen-Z are already minority-majority, that’s a big difference.

    Good point. I’d love to see an apples to apples comparison.

  102. @Passer by

    the Western Empire must go down first

    I mostly agree, but I don’t think one should “leave the sinking ship”, because the abomination which took over the West is not something I (or I guess most of us) ever felt any attachment to in the first place. So it’s just simply recognizing that that’s another ship I was never on board.

    In my estimates whites of european descent in the West will be fully taken over and then wiped out, due to certain cultural changes within them that point to that happening. They will not resist to that. Call it decadence, degeneration or whatever.

    I tend to agree that this is the most likely outcome, by far. But it’s well known that it’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.

    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @iffen
  103. @Josh Kenn

    It’s possible that in the general climate of fear polls are getting increasingly unreliable, especially for the generation which basically grew up in this and for whom lying about sensitive topics like race or feminism or LGBT issues has already become second nature. I don’t know how things like CRT are taught at school, but I guess pupils learn at a very early age that you just don’t want to be on the wrong side of this issue. This means that you are never going to let your thoughts slip to the surface. Unfortunately in such situations people often tend to internalize the thing – you become what you pretend to be so hard throughout your life.

    Also it might just be hopium and copium. The most parsimonious explanation is that they are simply more woke due to the indoctrination. I don’t know, but certainly wouldn’t bet my house on the basedness of generation Z.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  104. @songbird

    I tried to think about how I’d react if I grew up in such a culture. I think I’d be most susceptible to LGBT propaganda, because it’s the one hurting me personally the least. I don’t care if there are transgender weightlifters or gay marriage, these things tend not to hurt me, or at least not directly. Feminism is something that seems to be directed directly against my person, so I would probably resent feminist propaganda. And then the same is true of CRT.

    • Replies: @songbird
  105. @songbird

    Communism provided low living standards. At the same time they suppressed religion. It was also decidedly uncool, and was unable to create good propaganda (despite lots of possibilities). So there was simply no reason for anyone not believing in the Marxist bullshit (and it was increasingly clear that the party bigwigs believed in it less and less over time) to support the regime: the West was cooler, richer, offered more religious freedom (and even looked way more religious at the time), also more of the New Age type “spirituality” or whatever.

  106. @AaronB

    Christians never acted Christian

    Well, some Christians acted Christian most of the time, and most Christians acted Christian some of the time. Christianity doesn’t expect that mortal sinners behave like perfect angels.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  107. Corvinus says:
    @mal

    So what exactly is “anti-Team White”? What are the metrics involved? What are specific examples?

    • Replies: @mal
  108. AaronB says:
    @reiner Tor

    There were of course some very excellent and devout Christians who took it seriously in all ages, and others who tried their best and succeeded some of the time. There are also a not insignificant number of Jews – some who I have the privilege of knowing – who gave zero desire to become wealthy 🙂

    But Christian Europe as a whole was a violent and licentious place. Rome during the Renaissance had become an absolute scandal – the complete cancellation of Christianity, basically, at it’s very center.

    And Buddhist Thailand and Burma were at constant, ceaseless, war, and the samurai made Zen into an aid to violence and conquest.

    Such is the way of man. We turn the resources at hand to our own purposes.

    It will be absolutely fascinating to see in the coming generations what uses CRT will be turned to – I guarantee we will all be very surprised. It will probably be made to mean the exact opposite of what it means today and learned theologians will write treatises that “demonstrate” that CRT was always about the subjugation of blacks or something and that the original CRT believers simply didn’t properly understand the texts, which can only be explained by qualified authorities after years of study who are part of the Church of CRT.

  109. Corvinus says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The reality is that the majority of Generation Z is not going to become “based” or “shitlords”. Indeed, a small segment of this group are convinced that “racial egalitarianism” equates to the dispossessing of white men from their own countries. But where are these subsequent Trump-like candidates who have run or will be running for political office that Generation Z is backing. More importantly, Generation Z was born and raised on multiculturalism steroids. They are liberal-moderate on social issues, but moderate-conservative on fiscal and security issues, fitting the mold of (gasp) a moderate Republican, or cuck. Perhaps Generation Z will be more conservative than Millennials, but they are not actively seeking out the GOP unless it takes steps to conform to their social views.

  110. Coconuts says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    I remember early in the last decade when I first started spending time in Belarus, being struck by the strength of various ‘Enlightenment values’ among the younger people I was talking to, then realising that it probably due to Soviet and legacy Soviet influence. The influence of the Western versions seems to have grown since then, and you see that they can merge together. Maybe it is the same in Ukraine and the RussianFed.

    Then after the end of the USSR the US established itself as the dominant reference point and model for these things, especially in Europe. Once the mainstream US understanding of democracy, freedom, justice and human rights is through the prism of equity, cis-heteronormativity, white supremacy, anti-blackness, indigeniety, ableism etc. though you wonder how long that is going to continue undisturbed and uncontested.

  111. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor

    it’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.

    For most people it’s not any easier to [predict] the past.

  112. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    What, it’s not a secret Jews are wealthy and love money.

    You’re not supposed to say it out loud in front of God and everybody. It’s one of those tiny first steps to Nazism.

    It’s actually a complicated subject and “money” was a “sublimated” form of power, conquest, and autonomy to Jews who no longer had their own state and who lived as a despised minority

    Money Can’t Buy Me Love

    it was not just “greed” or desire for material possessions. In fact it’s not at all about mere material possessions.

    Doesn’t seem all that complicated to me. Jew greed is not the same as my coarse, unrefined greed. It’s pure –spiritual like — not slimy “get as much stuff as possible because I want it greed” that troubles the non-Jew.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Corvinus
  113. songbird says:
    @reiner Tor

    Gay ideology is easily the most insidious, before it becomes codified. Seem to be so few. The gays you know personally are most likely to be your ethnic kindred. More homos means more chicks available.

    I got zero of it in school. But tons of feminist and black stuff. Though, people years older than me had to deal with a guy in a dress.

    My first real brush with it was at a St. Patrick’s Day parade, when I was a little boy. I think it coincided with the push for Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Lots of butches marching in military fatigues. Amusingly, I was too young to understand that they were lesbos, even as the crowd shouted imprecations. I only thought they were patriotic women who volunteered for military service and who needed to get a crew cut to join up.

    I think I even knew what gays were at the time. It was just so far beyond my imagination that they would be marching in lock-step wearing military fatigues, forcing themselves into some ethnic celebration, just for political power.

    • Replies: @Wency
    , @Ray P
  114. AaronB says:
    @iffen

    I can say it I’m Jewish. If you say it you’re a Nazi 🙂

    It wasn’t a desire to be loved. The opposite. European states conquered each other and eventually the world. Jews couldn’t do this in their position – but they could get rich, and they did.

    Tere are petty and “grand” forms of immoral actions, and they serve different psychological needs.

    In traditional European culture, if you stole from me you were a lowly thief. But if you conquered another country you were noble. And in reality, I think that distinction is valid – petty stealing satisfies desire, conquest satisfies ego (although I wouldn’t call it noble). Conquest speaks to a “larger”, more existential matter than mere immediate gratification.

    Likewise greed can be petty or “grand”. Someone who merely wants to satisfy some petty desire by taking more is petty greed. “Grand” greed is about ego, and is an existential matter.

    The Greeks and Romans recognized this distinction, and despised petty traders but honored trade on a grand scale, like Crassus.

    You think I am trying to make Jews “superior” here, but it’s the opposite. Europeans have traditionally despised Jewish “greed” while calling their own brutal conquests “noble” – and that is unfair to Jews. I am saying both have a petty aspect and a grand, existential aspect. Similarly, Jews have traditionally stigmatized the European propensity for violent conquest as “animalistic” unlike their own “refined and civilized” business dealings lol. And that too is unfair!

    But of course I get it, for you Jews are just greedy bastards but European conquest of the world is noble 🙂

    Of course I am opposed to both greed and conquest – neither are spiritual! Both are deplorable. But I am also trying to sympathetically examine and see what deep psychological need they might answer in humans and what common root they might spring from rather than unintelligently condemn them.

    But of course this is just moonbeams and unicorns or whatever. Right? 🙂

    • Replies: @iffen
  115. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    But of course this is just moonbeams and unicorns or whatever. Right?

    Right, but I commend you for acknowledging the equivalencies.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Thanks: AaronB
  116. The actual poll can be downloaded here.

    But surely it’s only a glimpse of something very complex. America is a genuinely diverse country. The poll may mix answers from campuses with black majority, white majority, Hispanic majority, various mixtures, also from very different class backgrounds.

  117. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Triteleia Laxa

    What narrative do conservatives sell that can satisfy the narcissism of the young, while also allowing them to transcend it?

    The only successful narrative the Right has come up with is greed. The trick is to appeal to people’s greed while at the same time making them feel that being greedy is virtuous. The Right has been incredibly successful with this.

    But that doesn’t help social conservatives or conservative nationalists. Some young people truly are idealistic. Some just want to convince themselves that they’re idealistic. Either way you have to find a way to pander to that youthful idealism (which is indeed to a large extent a form of narcissism). Social conservatives have been a spectacular failure at this. All social conservatives seem to offer is a list of stuff you’re not supposed to do (which happens to include most of the things the young like to do). All nationalists seem to have to offer is a negative view of the wider world and a stuffy provincialism. All the dissident right seems to offer is hate.

    I have no idea what social conservatives/nationalists can do about this. They’re trying to sell ideological products that people really just don’t want to buy.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  118. @dfordoom

    Greed is just a symptom of the underlying Rightwing pathopsychology-fear of and hatred for other people.

  119. @AaronB

    It’s how Jews make their money that leads to resentment.

  120. Mr. Hack says:
    @AaronB

    It’s actually a complicated subject and “money” was a “sublimated” form of power, conquest, and autonomy to Jews who no longer had their own state and who lived as a despised minority – it was not just “greed” or desire for material possessions. In fact it’s not at all about mere material possessions.

    How about today? How would you characterize a modern Jew’s attachment to money? Has it changed any?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @AaronB
  121. @Mr. Hack

    FWIW I read a book by Christina Hoff Sommers, who is an (N-2)th wave feminist and the book was attacking Nth wave feminism. She mentioned that she went to a high school to make a speech at some ceremony about some very feminist sounding topic (I don’t have time to look it up, but it was something like masculinity in the 21st century or maybe gender equality, and she was named as a feminist author). She talked about how boys are wonderful in a different way than girls, even mentioning her own two sons. She talked to the boys afterwards, and many came to her specifically to thank her for her speech – they expected to be thrashed in the speech for their supposedly toxic masculinity, and they were obviously happy that finally a “feminist author” said something positive about them.

    That’s just one data point, but it makes it possible in my mind that not everyone likes it when they say bad things (and only bad things) about their own groups. Maybe it’s just the reaction of a small minority, but personally I would think that it’s a natural psychological reaction that you start resenting the constant propaganda against all groups you happen to belong to – males, whites, heterosexuals, the cisgendered, etc. So maybe the polls would be different for cishet white males. But to repeat my earlier point, I wouldn’t bet my house on it.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  122. @reiner Tor

    This was not meant to be a reply to Mr. Hack and is not related to his comment.

  123. mal says:
    @Corvinus

    Sure! According to CRT, ‘hard work’ and ‘rationality’ are Team White traits.

    A Smithsonian museum apologized for a chart listing hard work and rational thought as traits of white culture.

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article244309587.html

    And CRT is right. So people who disapprove of those things are anti-Team White.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  124. Wency says:
    @songbird

    I’ll be honest, as a Millennial, I was somewhat indoctrinated into gay acceptance. Not that I was ever someone who would have flown a pride flag, but growing up I didn’t really see how anyone could argue for the criminalization of homosexuality, and this was the result of a push from peers, teachers, and media. As for gay marriage, I would have taken a libertarian tack and argued that governments shouldn’t be in the business of sanctioning marriage one way or the other. I didn’t start to feel strongly about this topic until the 2010s when the overreach and its unstoppable momentum became clearer every year, and all the SoCon fearmongers turned out to be right. I guess I was one of the very few who were persuaded to do a 180 on this topic — everyone else just swam with the current.

    But I’ve always instinctively pushed back against affirmative action, feminism, and the “white men are the oppressors” line. I came very close to voting Democrat a few times during the W. Bush years, which was the height of my liberal flirtation (and I was always an objector to the Iraq War), but in the end I couldn’t bring myself to vote Democrat, and race + sex was the reason. My father said to me, “Being a white man in the Democratic Party is like being a Jew in the Nazi Party,” and I didn’t really have a good rejoinder to that.

    • Thanks: songbird
  125. Corvinus says:
    @mal

    “Sure! According to CRT, ‘hard work’ and ‘rationality’ are Team White traits.”

    I asked for you to identify and specify the traits of “Anti-Team White”, not provide someone’s opinion about what they wrongly assumed were the characteristics of “Team White”. But, I am intrigued. How exactly did CRT arrive at his conclusion? How are other races not as “hard working” or “rational” compared to “Team White”?**

    **It would probably be a good starting point to clarify what is “Team White” as well. I imagine that as a dedicated member of this group you are eager to articulate it well, right? Of course, it will take several paragraphs, with citations, for you to clearly explain everything here and above. Do you have the intellectual horsepower and patience to begin this discourse? I think I already know the answer…

    “And CRT is right. So people who disapprove of those things are anti-Team White”.

    So, in essence, there is no room for debate. A person who dares to question it is automatically labeled “anti-Team White”. is that your contention? You do realize that comes across as propaganda and ideologically narrow, as well as being patently elitist, right? How is that any different than, say, the Coalition of the Left Fringes, as espoused by Mr. Sailer?

    You really have your work cut out for you. But, as a supposed member of “Team White”, you should be able to muster up a cogent response, rather than duck and dodge on these important matters. Your credibility as a tried and true adhere to “Team White” depends upon it.

    • Replies: @mal
  126. Corvinus says:
    @iffen

    “Doesn’t seem all that complicated to me. Jew greed is not the same as my coarse, unrefined greed. ”

    How exactly are you able to make this argument? What is “Jew greed” compared to your “coarse, unrefined greed”? That is, what are the major differences? Is “Jew greed” worse than your “course, unrefined greed”, however you define “worse”? (since you seem to make that implication).

    “It’s pure –spiritual like — not slimy “get as much stuff as possible because I want it greed” that troubles the non-Jew.”

    OK, I’ll bite. Why does it exactly “trouble you” as a non-Jew? Why should I–also as a non-Jew–be in your camp?

    • Replies: @iffen
  127. mal says:
    @Corvinus

    I asked for you to identify and specify the traits of “Anti-Team White”, not provide someone’s opinion about what they wrongly assumed were the characteristics of “Team White”. But, I am intrigued. How exactly did CRT arrive at his conclusion? How are other races not as “hard working” or “rational” compared to “Team White”?**

    You should ask Smithsonian museum such questions. I’m just a lowly messenger, and approve of the message.

    **It would probably be a good starting point to clarify what is “Team White” as well. I imagine that as a dedicated member of this group you are eager to articulate it well, right? Of course, it will take several paragraphs, with citations, for you to clearly explain everything here and above. Do you have the intellectual horsepower and patience to begin this discourse? I think I already know the answer…

    I don’t need to. CRT teaches all about White Supremacy. I agree with that. I just think it’s pretty good, all things considered. I mean if not whites, then who? Nobody wants to live in Detroit. Not even blacks.

    So, in essence, there is no room for debate. A person who dares to question it is automatically labeled “anti-Team White”. is that your contention? You do realize that comes across as propaganda and ideologically narrow, as well as being patently elitist, right? How is that any different than, say, the Coalition of the Left Fringes, as espoused by Mr. Sailer?

    That’s just your White Fragility talking. Don’t worry, relax, and embrace your identity and its power. 🙂

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  128. AaronB says:
    @Mr. Hack

    I think diaspora Jews continue to have an unhealthy attitude to money. This attitude does not exist in Israel.

    It’s understandable. And all groups have their issues. But hopefully it will pass.

    Jews are very generous and helpful to friends, family, and community, but also try and maximize profit too aggressively, in my view.

    But I’m a romantic, anyways.

    • Replies: @iffen
  129. Ray P says:
    @Not Raul

    The oldest Gen-x were reaching thirty years of age toward the end of the nineteen nineties. Perhaps they had married and started having children. Don’t parents often return to their childhood faith for the sake of their children? It’s seen (in America especially) as part of being a good parent.

    • Replies: @Wency
  130. Ray P says:
    @songbird

    It was the Battalion of Lesbian Bed-Death.

  131. Corvinus says:
    @mal

    “You should ask Smithsonian museum such questions”.

    The Smithsonian clarified their position. Now I am requesting that you do likewise.

    “I’m just a lowly messenger, and approve of the message.”

    That’s a cop-out on your part. Part of approving the message is being to articulate it when asked what it particularly means.

    “I don’t need to. CRT teaches all about White Supremacy. I agree with that.”

    Actually, you do. You are a supposed believer in a particular ideology. Rather than parroting the ideas, a diehard adherent such as yourself is obligated to offer explanations when asked.

    “That’s just your White Fragility talking. Don’t worry, relax, and embrace your identity and its power.”

    My suspicions were borne out. I would say on the basis of your avoidance behavior, you lack the intellectual horsepower and patience to begin this discourse. It’s OK to indicate you are on the wrong side of the Bell Curve and simply do not have the requisite skill set.

    • Replies: @mal
  132. Dmitry says:

    Alt Right, /pol/, HBD autists, “radical centrists”, and anti-

    99% of people wouldn’t know what this even is, except that “alt right” might refer to some racist Trump supporters.

    “Alt right” was a construction of the liberal media complex in the 2016 election, as a way to try to impede the Republican Party.

    This is how they fill a bucket full of shit, and then try to associate it with Trump. “Alt right” was a bucket of shit, that they filled with the most unpopular ideologies.

    I’m not the most “conspiracy minded” netizen. But if there was anyone with handlers from the security services of the American “deep state”, surely Richard Spencer and Julia Ioffe are some of the more likely candidates involved in marketing of the 2016 liberal media narrative.

    Richard Spencer managed to make the most unemployable young people in America, to say “Sieg Hail Trump” on video, in response to the liberal media claims that Trump promotes fascism.

    While Julia Ioffe, has promoted this association between Trump and Russia, and has co-incidentally stopped to published the moment that Trump was politically defeated, as if her value was used, or mission completed.

    acknowledge your white privilege

    If you are a privileged person, then it is pleasurable to acknowledge it, and perhaps before you began studies at Brown or Harvard, to work for some weeks helping endangered animals in Costa Rica, or orphans in Ethiopia. Working to save attractive endangered animals, or photogenic African children, provides also fashionable material to post on Instagram (or whatever new website Zoomers have emigrated onto). This is much cooler and high status, than posting photos of your Gucci bag, or lying on the roof of a “black Beemer”, which might have still worked in the 1990s at best. But again, it depends on “know your audience”. Here is a concept of “white elitism” that might sell to postcolonial elites of Connecticut and Massachusetts, Sausalito and Newport Beach; not so much will work with working families employed by the mineral industry of Asbest or machine plants of Sterlitamak.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    , @Coconuts
  133. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Dmitry

    “Alt right” was a construction of the liberal media complex in the 2016 election, as a way to try to impede the Republican Party.

    This is how they fill a bucket full of shit, and then try to associate it with Trump. “Alt right” was a bucket of shit, that they filled with the most unpopular ideologies.


    https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/05/08/what-kek-explaining-alt-right-deity-behind-their-meme-magic

    Pepe did nothing wrong…

    KEK!

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  134. Dmitry says:
    @Passer by

    including China, Russia and Iran

    In Russia, you learn from school, a very pro-tolerant, multicultural, propaganda, that would not be popular with many people on this forum. This is from the practical need of political stability, inheriting the multicultural ruin of the Soviet Union/Russian Empire.

    However, the difference from the West, is this multiculturalism is based in Russia on the concept of mutual tolerance and equality, while in Western Europe and wealthy part of the USA it’s motivated more by virtue signaling.

    Demand for the virtue signaling we see in the West, is a product of their luxury circumstances, and in Russia (outside perhaps soon of a few ultra wealthy hipster cities) the demand for this product would like trying to selling umbrellas to people in sahara desert, or encouraging them to plant mango trees in the taiga.

    Similarly, Russia has been one of the world’s most feminist countries for more than a century, including even before the October Revolution (in Kerensky offensive the Germans were attacked by a battalion of female soldiers in the Russian army, and to some extent the women’s attack was successful); but it came based on the principle of equality, not virtue signaling. Feminism in the Soviet times, was that women were over 50% of the industrial workforce in Soviet Union by 1970. I’m not sure Western feminists are arguing based on the desire to work in a steel plant.

    However, for all differences of history and economic level, Russia is still Northern Europe, and even fashionable language trends are relatively unseparated from European ones.

    Sometimes Western fashions seem to come faster into Russia, than in the West. . And they can storm harder, too. Nobody has been more enthusiastic in the world for Harry Potter, than in Russia. It’s the world most mentally infected country, from the point of view of the “Harry Potter pandemic”.

    There are sometimes more culturally isolated and distant countries like Japan, that seem to have more of a “high-pass filter” when they interact with Western culture, aside from things carried to Japan by the US occupation, like baseball. For example, in Japan, there is an obsession with Audrey Hepburn and “West Coast jazz”. Japanese often choose the most cool things from American culture, and ignore the rest. But in postsoviet Russia, it’s not like this. Western trends will fill any demand for which there is a local interest, without any tasteful selection or filtration of the high culture.

    That’s not to say, that Russia will not be protected from some trends like virtue-signalling about sexual minorities. But the reason is because there is no demand for this product.

    All these virtue signalling trends in the West (like LGBT weeks), will have little local interest in Russia. It’s required a socioeconomic context which is absent in most of the cities.

    • Agree: mal
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  135. @Dmitry

    The difference is deeper than that. The stability of Russian Empire, USSR, and RF requires mutual tolerance of people who live in their native lands and come into contact with other nations/races because their lands border the lands of other nations/races. No mass migration and forced mixing of incompatible populations were involved. Hundreds of years of co-existence taught the people to treat each other well. Every post-Soviet country where tribal feelings were stoked by official propaganda became unstable. The claim that one tribe is somehow superior to another is dynamite that explodes the very fabric of society.

    Same with women. In the USSR they were treated the same as men, not like something special or superior. This was combined with realism: men and women are different in many ways, and humanity exists due to these differences. If they become identical, that would be the end of our species.

    That’s also why various sexual perversions get no propaganda traction. Most people are against prosecuting perverts (as long as they engage in their acts on a strictly voluntary basis), but no sane person would call these perversions normal. It is implicitly understood that sex is a means of producing children, so that having sex with persons of your own gender or non-human animals is a deviation tolerable when its rare, fatal when it becomes widespread.

    On the imperial patch it’s not so much virtue signaling (although useful idiots believe that it is), as the drive by the elites to divide people by nationality, race, gender, sexual orientation, anything that masks the fact that they are all exploited and robbed by the elites. A lot of people are stupid and gullible, so 24/7 propaganda by wholly owned MSM works.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  136. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    An example of the original, vintage Alt Right product can be found here:

    https://counter-currents.com/2016/09/esoteric-kekism-is-a-religion-of-peace/

  137. mal says:
    @Corvinus

    That’s a cop-out on your part. Part of approving the message is being to articulate it when asked what it particularly means.

    No worries. Here’s the Smithsonian message:

    The graphic, found in the “Whiteness” section of the Smithsonian museum’s “Talking About Race” portal, described 14 categories of “white dominant culture, or whiteness,” including history, religion, family structure and justice. Hard work, self-reliance, respect of authority and “the nuclear family — father, mother, 2.3 children is the ideal social unit” were listed as attributes of white culture. The chart also included the phrases “win at all costs,” “woman’s beauty based on blonde, thin — ‘Barbie’ ” and “heavy value on ownership of goods, space and property.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/museums/african-american-museum-site-removes-whiteness-chart-after-criticism-from-trump-jr-and-conservative-media/2020/07/17/4ef6e6f2-c831-11ea-8ffe-372be8d82298_story.html

    I agree with Smithsonian’s attributes of white dominant culture and I think those are great. I think people should embrace their white dominant culture and celebrate it.

    Also, this:

    The chart came from a 1978 book, “White Awareness: Handbook for Anti-Racism Training” by Judy H. Katz, according to the museum. It lists about 50 attributes white people used to describe their culture. These attributes, it said, “have been normalized over time and are now considered standard practices in the United States. And since white people still hold most of the institutional power in America, we all have internalized some aspects of white culture, including people of color.”

    The more “people of color internalize some aspects of white culture”, the better off they will be. People of color too can learn the winning ways of Team White. CRT people are absolutely right.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  138. mal says:

    Also, apropos of nothing, about that Judy Katz.

    Judith Katz (@JudithKatz) Tweeted:
    used a serving platter from my grandmother on thanksgiving.Washing it noticed the marking -“Made in Occupied Japan” -now I am curious https://twitter.com/JudithKatz/status/440595292?s=20

    Wasn’t Japanese Constitution (post war) partially written by a Russian Jew lady from New York? Wonder if grandmother was an acquaintance.

  139. Dmitry says:
    @AnonfromTN

    divide people by nationality, race, gender

    One of the funniest ones, is to divide people by generation, and call them strange names like “boomer”, “zoomer”.

    With that said, our year of birth can determine the perceptions possible to us, as a result of the technological changes that you have to be old enough to remember.

    For example, I can remember a time before everyone was addicted to their smartphone. Whereas a zoomer who was born in year 2001, and going to university now, might have little memory of the time before the human race was enslaved by these handheld devices.

    I was looking out of the window and seeing people looking at their phones, instead of looking at the nature and sun – it is of course, shocking and scary historical change, to experience how rapidly and defenseless we’ve been conquered by the smartphone. Looking out of the same window 15 years ago, there would have been a completely different level of focus from the people you saw out there. People of my generation, periodically experience this shock. But for Zoomers born in 2001, it would no longer be accessible.

    It reminds of the film director Jacques Tati, who could remember Paris before it conquered by the automobile, and has focused on the strangeness and horror of the automobile in his cinema, as well as the way man seems to become a slave to it. For later generations, the car-filled cities seemed normal. It’s only people old enough to experience the transition, that can understand such strange and arbitrary transformations of our consciousness.

    imperial patch it’s not so much virtue signaling (although useful idiots believe that it is)

    I’ve lived near such youth – the most bourgeois Western zoomers, and seen the fashion for LGBT conquer a city of them. Among overprivileged and soft youth, these fashions are very popular.

    It’s like in horticulture. In some soils and climates, plants hardly grow for years, but in others it flourishes with wild success.

    It’s not because of needs of the sexual minority to avoid persecution, but the desire of the sexual majority to show the luxury of kindness and moral elevation – not so different from saving the world by buying a Tesla automobile.

    You buy the Tesla because it shows you want to save the environment. But if you really wanted to help the ecology you would walk or go quietly on public bus; but the Tesla is much more ostentatious – everyone can see your saintly preferences, and moreover, its price shows that this virtue is open to anybody.

    Similarly, when they ban clapping in Oxford University, it’s not because of hearing-disabled people complained. It’s because of the desire of the students to show their compassion.

    Listen at this video in 3:50. Problem is that the man is logical, he wonders whether banning clapping will be unkind to blind people. But for the students, he is like your parents saying you have to go to bed now and turn off the playstation. The fun of this game was to show how kind or goodly you are.

  140. Coconuts says:
    @Dmitry

    I’m not the most “conspiracy minded” netizen. But if there was anyone with handlers from the security services of the American “deep state”, surely Richard Spencer and Julia Ioffe are some of the more likely candidates involved in marketing of the 2016 liberal media narrative.

    I think at that point Spencer was what is sometimes called a ‘useful idiot’, a young guy with a large ego wanting to make a name for himself on the political scene. He seems to have learned from his mistakes, but is the closest thing the US has to a National Socialist for our contemporary age, this is why he hates the Republican Party so much.

    Lately he has been trying to form a new religion centred around the worship of Apollo, to curb Jewish/Christian influence in US society.

  141. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    This attitude does not exist in Israel.

    Magic Dirt! ?

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @AaronB
  142. iffen says:
    @Corvinus

    The phrases and ideas are above your paygrade. You couldn’t understand even if I explained in detail.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  143. AaronB says:
    @iffen

    Zionism is based entirely on the concept that Israel is magic dirt, and will transform Jews.

    And it worked!

    America is magic dirt too – whites in America are nothing like whites in Europe. Although in this case maybe we should call it cursed dirt 🙂

    Although really, I do not want to blame the holy and beautiful land of America for the degeneration of the European within it and the blight he imposed on it, and I see signs whites in America are healing themselves, so perhaps the magic of American dirt is having it’s effect.

    • Replies: @iffen
  144. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    Zionism is based entirely on the concept that Israel is magic dirt, and will transform Jews.

    Kind of like how Baptism will wash away all of one’s sins? I’ve been Baptized, although covered with muck since, so where’s my country? Also, what’s the mechanism whereby incremental pieces of dirt can be added and transformed into magic dirt?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  145. Corvinus says:
    @mal

    I see you are doubling down on your avoidance to offer your own line of thinking. I am other than surprised. The fact of the matter is that those traits are human characteristics, and the Smithsonian acknowledged their error, especially by relying on an outdated source.

    • Replies: @mal
  146. iffen says:

    God’s schadenfreude:

    Jew-haters and Defenders of the Faith conflate Jews with Israel. Now, most of the world, particularly Palestinians, are conflating Palestinians who are Israeli citizens with Palestinians in Gaza and those in the paltry remains of the West Bank.

  147. Corvinus says:
    @iffen

    “The phrases and ideas are above your paygrade. You couldn’t understand even if I explained in detail.”

    What is with the cop outs on this thread? Methinks you attempted to say something in hopes no one would ask you to clarify. Assuming you have a high IQ, you have the ability to explain such ideas to the “man on the street”. So please back up your assertion.

    • Replies: @iffen
  148. AaronB says:
    @iffen

    People change in response to environment, although often in unpredictable ways.

    It’s not something that can be controlled, though.

    Magic dirt is used to mock the idea that coming to America changes people. But America creates massive changes in people who come here. Asians become fat and lose their soft spoken ways. Blacks become more aggressive.

    People react to physical, social, and political aspects of their environment. For instance, on the simple physical level I’m a different person when I’m out in the vast deserts and open landscapes of the West than when in the dense forests of the East. I’m a different person when I’m in the city or the country.

    Physical environment has an effect. I’m even a different person based on weather. Aaron on a bright, crisp Autumn day is a different person than Aaron on a dreary February day. Many people suffer SAD disorder in winter.

    Physical environment has tremendous impact.

    But social environment is just as massive, if not more so. People in a highly competitive environment will act very different than people in an environment more based on cooperation.

    And then there is political situation and relationship to neighbors. People at war with their neighbors will focus and emphasize different things than people at peace. I guarantee if you go to live on a country at war you will suddenly develop sides of your personality you didn’t know you had. You would certainly be focusing on different things. Things that seemed important would suddenly seem trivial. You would be a transformed person.

    The problem with magic dirt theory in America is the belief that bringing people into a harsh, highly competitive society will make them gentler people. It’s also blindness to the cruelty of elite White and Asian society in America because this cruelty is sublimated and manifests in white collar activities.

    A less intelligent person may notice the cruelty and competitivenes and become physically violent instead of using his brain as his weapon of warfare, and we say this disproves magic dirt. But it proves it.

    Of course, American society is changing.

  149. mal says:
    @Corvinus

    Nah, Smithsonian just caved to public pressure because people can’t handle the truth of CRT. Smithsonian was right the first time.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  150. Wency says:
    @Some Guy

    Thanks, that’s interesting. Something tells me there might be a large male/female discrepancy in those results. Presumably because liberals control the media and the narrative, and women are more influenced by those things and less influenced by their parents.

    I know a lot more women who revolted against conservative parents than men. I can think of multiple examples of a conservative household producing a son who’s nearly-aligned with the parents, and a daughter who is completely liberal. I can’t think of a single example of the reverse — leftist son, rightist daughter.

    As for leftist households, I think the most they tend to produce are neocon or libertarian sorts of men. It seems the girls from leftist homes are always, always leftists — they’re not going to revolt against parents *and* The Narrative. At most, they might be more left-of-center and more apolitical than their parents.

    If you’ve got adopted children though, don’t be surprised if they take after their biological parent’s liberalism/conservatism after they move away from home.

    Probably some truth here. And yet — I used to know a Korean-American guy who was adopted. He spoke with a thick Southern accent, hunted deer, drove an F150 from which he’d fly an American flag. It was a real mind trip. I didn’t know him in the Trump years, but I have little doubt he’d have some sort of ostentatious Trump/Pence display on either his truck, his yard, or both.

    • Replies: @Some Guy
  151. Wency says:
    @Ray P

    Yes, this used to be pretty normal in the US, though the trend is largely absent among Millennials (and probably Zoomers) and Christian circles have been commenting on it for a few years now.

    I think the difference is that in past generations, people drifted away from faith mostly out of boredom and disinterest in their teens and early 20s rather than an active choice, until having children re-centered them on questions of values and the eternal.

    But my fellow Millennials have largely adopted the Pride Flag as their master, and you cannot serve both God and Pride — if you hold to one, you will despise the other. Liberal Christians try to split the difference (though usually ranking Pride ahead of God), but no one shows up to their services, and in any case even those who do show up tend to be lacking in conviction and won’t rank high on the question that chart is asking: do you believe in God without a doubt?

    • Replies: @iffen
  152. iffen says:
    @Corvinus

    Methinks

    First mistake. Attempting such in your condition is dangerous to you and everyone else.

    you attempted to say something in hopes no one would ask you to clarify

    The obvious don’t need no explanation.
    Trigger words trigger me not.

    Assuming you have a high IQ,

    2nd mistake.

    I’m uncertain about the actual IQ number, but if you know yours and you have a calculator handy, add 20 points to your score and you will get into my range.

    to the “man on the street”

    Get back into the street and off my train!

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  153. iffen says:
    @Wency

    believe in God without a doubt?

    Could this be read as a God who never doubted himself?

    After all, he did let Abraham Jew him down from 50 to 10 with regard to possibly sparing Sodom and Gomorrah

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  154. Some Guy says:
    @Wency

    Presumably because liberals control the media and the narrative, and women are more influenced by those things and less influenced by their parents.

    I don’t know, but woman are supposedly less influenced by their genes:

    A large study (30,000 adults, including twins and most of their first-degree relatives) yielded heritabilities of .65 for males and .45 for females.

    So perhaps after children move away from home, their conservative shared environment is replaced by conservative genes, but less so for women.

    And yet — I used to know a Korean-American guy who was adopted.

    He probably had conservative biological parents.

    • Replies: @Wency
  155. I don’t know what CRT claims. Don’t care, either. In my experience (~30 years in the USSR and ~30 years in the US), genetic differences between races are unlikely to have strong impact on intelligence (real one, not IQ) or propensity for hard work. I’ve seen smart and dumb, lazy and hard-working people of all races and nationalities.

    Specifically, dismal state of blacks in the US has little to do with their race. Blacks from Caribbean or Africa show the same wide spread of every meaningful parameter as whites or Asians. Current state of American blacks is brought about by freebies and unearned privileges. USSR had programs similar to affirmative action, when some minorities had unfair advantages (e.g., in college admissions), and these programs had the same devastating effect on people eligible. My bet is, if you give Irish freebies and hiring/admissions preferences for being Irish that the US blacks have for being black, in a generation or two Irish community would become a total wreck.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  156. Corvinus says:
    @iffen

    “First mistake. Attempting such in your condition is dangerous to you and everyone [email protected]

    For an alleged high IQ white, one would think you would not resort to ad homonym.

    “The obvious don’t need no explanation.”

    According to Who/Whom. Again, you made the claim “Doesn’t seem all that complicated to me. Jew greed is not the same as my coarse, unrefined greed.” Simply saying it doesn’t mean it’s clear cut. If you’re that convinced, defend your statement.

    “I’m uncertain about the actual IQ numbering, but if you know yours and you have a calculator handy, add 20 points to your score and you will get into my range.”

    Lol. Then put your supposed high IQ to the test, rather than duck and cover.

  157. Wency says:
    @Some Guy

    He probably had conservative biological parents.

    More likely than not, and yet it’s interesting that his conservatism expressed itself as 100% stereotypically Scotch-Irish and 0% stereotypically Korean or Korean-American.

    If nothing else, “conservative” and “liberal” are one-dimensional poles, and I’m inclined to think that shared environment is a lot more important than genes in the specific details of your rightism or leftism, while genes are mostly just influencing which pole you’re drawn to. Though admittedly the details of your politics will also change over time, but I still think one’s political course tends to be influenced by his starting point.

    • Replies: @Some Guy
  158. Corvinus says:
    @mal

    There was public pressure for the Smithsonian to admit it was wrong.

    What are you afraid of to answer the questions I earlier posed to you? Cannot you think for yourself?

    • Replies: @mal
  159. mal says:
    @Corvinus

    Nah, you are just trying to redirect from truth that is CRT. Nothing wrong with what Smithsonian posted 🙂

  160. songbird says:

    Haven’t read the literature in depth, but I’m inclined to believe that the heritability of politics is similar to that of religion. I.e., that the number is higher for zealots, than for the general population.

  161. TCPS says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    Ok, I see. So you’re saying that polls in Russia indicating “based” opinions among Zoomers are just propaganda, but those in the West showing all Zoomers are woke are accurate and trustworthy?

    If so, you’re incredibly intellectually dishonest and may be a Fed yourself.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  162. Passer by says:

    VkusVill saga.

    IPOs as a stealth instrument of LGBT push in Russia (Karlin was the first that mentioned that possibility and now i pay attention to that too).

    https://www.russiapost.su/archives/254938

  163. Bashibuzuk says:
    @TCPS

    Are you intellectually challenged or just retarded?

    • Replies: @TCPS
  164. Wyatt says:
    @WorkingClass

    The correct answer to that question is, “no, but they should be.”

  165. Some Guy says:
    @Wency

    If nothing else, “conservative” and “liberal” are one-dimensional poles, and I’m inclined to think that shared environment is a lot more important than genes in the specific details of your rightism or leftism, while genes are mostly just influencing which pole you’re drawn to.

    Yes, and especially for superficial differences in expression of conservatism like whether you fly a flag. It’s like how religiosity is influenced by genes, but not which religion you adhere to.

  166. TCPS says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    Your claims reek of double standard and dishonesty. You describe Russian opinion polls as untrustworthy “propaganda”, including presumably those from the Levada Center, which Putin doesn’t like very much. The concept that most Zoomers are essentially pro-nationalist and pro-Russian is implies to be “propaganda” and untrue in your analysis, despite being the general finding of most opinion surveys as well as reflected in high support among the very young for the nationalistic LDP. Remember, most Russian youth don’t live in Moscow.

    Meanwhile, you seem to uncritically accept the findings of garbage, psyop opinion polls in the West as if they aren’t “propaganda”. I’m not shilling for Russian government or official media, but if you think that Western propaganda is somehow “better”, you got another thing coming buddy.

    Maybe you’re not a Fed, but your incessant desire to be blackpilled, or whatever it is, in spite of the facts leads you to treat Western BS with kiddie gloves as opposed to Russian opinion research, even if it’s from an organization that isn’t very pro-Putin.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  167. Bashibuzuk says:
    @TCPS

    You clearly have a problem with reading comprehension and I don’t have time to fully appreciate your kamikaze strawmen Jihad.

    • Replies: @TCPS
  168. TCPS says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    Bowing out and not even bothering with my counter arguments? Figures. Go back to sucking the West’s dick.

    • Troll: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  169. @Max Payne

    One thing all CRTs have in common: the built-up charges can getcha if you’re not careful. Staying grounded and unplugging may not be enough to keep you safe. Plus, it’s much harder to break it than you think.

  170. Bashibuzuk says:
    @TCPS

    You did not present any counterargument. You have just fielded a squad of strawmen that you then angrily attacked. Read my comments again and you will see why I am being dismissive about your debating abilities (and your intellectual capacity in general). Specifically, see my comment # 76 in the current thread, you could also go through my comment history on Karlin’s Blog and UR in general, to verify whether I am a Globalized West fan boy. Finally, you being rude only confirms that engaging you would be a waste of my time and energy.

    Be well buddy…

    • Replies: @TCPS
  171. TCPS says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    All I see from your comment is selectively using a very vaguely worded survey to show some supposed liberal tendency in the Russian youth. You still haven’t engaged the multiple surveys which show contrary views, and perhaps most importantly, the actual election results.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  172. Bashibuzuk says:
    @TCPS

    All I see from your comment is selectively using a very vaguely worded survey

    You have written that I was inclined to trust Western surveys, but the one I used was done by the Russian Academy of Science.

    That was proof enough that you are either not reading the comments made by your opponents, or distorting the things your opponents write.

    Now, wording of the survey is what it is, I did not choose that, the pollsters did.

    But the results converge with the ones recently provided by a survey made among young people in Chuvashiya:

    https://nk.cap.ru/poll/107

    (See answer # 38)

    Together, the conservative and nationalist youth made around 10% .

    That contradicts your claim that glubinka youths in RusFed are more nationalist and patriotic than the Moskvabad and Piter youngsters.

    Bottom line, you were wrong, you didn’t read my comments, you assumed a lot of BS and you were rude at the end.

    Why should I continue to debate with someone who behaves the way you do?

    Perhaps if you start by acknowledging that you were wrong and humbly apologizing, then we can debate further. Otherwise, don’t waste your time replying to my comment and let’s move over it.

    🙂

    • Replies: @TCPS
  173. TCPS says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    The “findings” of that survey aren’t really terribly meaningful, besides a survey Karlin himself mentioned found more or less the same result among older people as well:

    In addition, Russian exit polls routinely find high levels of support for both Putin and the LDP among young people. According to this exit poll (which measures actual voting behavior rather than shallow, dumb platitudes) about 67% of Zoomers voted for Putin, and the second highest number supported Zhirinovsky. I doubt that either one would be considered “western liberals” by any stretch of the imagination:

    Hell, the freaking Pew Research, which is about as liberal and globalist an organization as you can imagine, contradicts your claims by finding most Russian youths strongly opposed to LGBT indoctrination.

    So no, the bottom line is that Russian youth do not seem to be hugely more liberal than their parents. Are they a bit more liberal? Yes, but not by a large margin. Karlin himself has written on this, which you’d be advised to read:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/what-does-russians-generation-z-think/

    And yes, it’s possible you’re just blackpilled, but you seem oddly defensive of your unrealistically negative view of the future. So I owe you no apology.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  174. Bashibuzuk says:
    @TCPS

    LGBT indoctrination.

    И чё вы такие все на гомосячене зацикленые ? У вас полтора триллиона у.е. из Ресурсной Федерации на Запад вывели (не считая всех спионеренных заводов и прочих природных ресурсов), а вы всё про пидоров и лесбиянок, как-будто других проблем в жизни нет. Не было бы этих половых извращенцев, пришлось бы их придумать чтобы вам все мозги переклинить. Прикольные вы люди, Путин с вас ржёт каждый день, а вы всё ждёте светлого будущего.

    Неисправимые оптимисты мля. Ладно, флаг вам в руки…

    🙂

    • Replies: @TCPS
  175. dfordoom says: • Website
    @iffen

    OT, but it seems that the AE open thread has now been shut down. Which is very very disappointing.

  176. @reiner Tor

    They would mostly laugh at you for suggesting that they are indoctrinated by their elders. They actually consider their Wokeness to be an act of rebellion against their elders.

    Nor does it happen through school, but through influencers on Instagram and TikTok, who are mostly young. It is a mostly organic movement, however much that hurts to realise.

    The best question is not who taught them this stuff, it is facile and did not need teaching, but where is the vision that is better?

  177. Dmitry says:
    @AnonfromTN

    I’m often meeting the “academically successful youth”, e.g. these young people who have two Phds by age 28, and their student summer jobs were for some program for e.g. NASA or World Health Organization, while normal youth was wasting time working in a supermarket.

    On the other hand, I know people, that now literally work in a supermarket, never left their home city i.e. “career losers”.

    Yet the difference between the two kinds of people is not so much related to intelligence, but rather that the “academic high-achievers” were slightly more motivated and well organized when they were young (e.g. between ages 18-25, which are the critical years).

    Moreover, they perhaps have a few less self-destructive impulses during that time period, which allowed them to focus on their goals.

    I myself am the kind of person who should be working in a supermarket. I was a lazy youth. However, strangely, I had a few years of unusual high motivation and high ambitions, and that allowed me to attain a more comfortable position, and nowadays to revert to being lazy again – but in a office instead of a supermarket cashier.

    differences between races are unlikely to have strong impact on intelligence

    If you look in the elite universities in the West, many of the students are from third world countries (e.g. India, Africa, China and Latin America), and yet they study the same material, alongside students from “elite” nationalities like English, Germans, French, etc.

    While it is possible or plausible that some nationalities, might have a higher proportion of people who have some genetic suitability to academic study (for example, a higher frequency of people with a tendency to calm temperament, that is required to devote hours in the library) – this is not the explanation for the difference between the countries, as there are more than enough people from any of these nationalities to fill many more elite universities than exist.

    Difference between first world countries and third world countries, is not a result of some supposed “racial inability” of third world nationalities to study academic content, and this is shown everyday now by seeing that third world origin people are studying in the universities of the first world countries.

    What determines the difference between the countries is the complexity of their political organization, historical stage of development, economic history, climate, geography, and the results of events and wars which might have happened centuries ago. For example, China’s development was thrown back by colonial predation in the First Opium War, resulting in the country experiencing the most devastating events of the 19th century.

    These are all the complexities and often arbitrary vicissitudes that have been traditionally understood by historians since Thucydides. Thucydides doesn’t imply that the barbarians have some problem with their blood, but a lack of cultural level in comparison to Hellenes – or even something like a different historical stage.

    However, Plato explains it better, if you recall “Republic”. There is implied believing a myth that the Guardians are physically made of some godly gold or silver, would be a useful one for establishing the hierachical system of rule that is advocated by Socrates in “Republic”.

    It’s not surprising that in the apotheosis of the colonial age, when European empires have divided the world, such mythologies would be produced to explain or partly justify the position of the masters vis-à-vis the slaves. Although these mythologies had peaked, in the owl of minerva sense, just as the dusk of the empires had begun in the beginning of the 20th century.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  178. @Dmitry

    I tell my graduate students that nobody becomes smarter getting a PhD. A degree is means to an end, not an end in itself. Some people like to collect titles, but that does not speak well of them. I notice that Brits like to have a long alphabet soup after their names, and I am not aware of many British academic achievements lately. In general, Europeans are more partial to titles. If someone addresses me as Prof. or Dr. Prof., that person is certainly a European. An American would simply address me as Dr.

    I would not use term “academically gifted” for people who have two PhDs. First, getting a second PhD means that you made a mistake choosing the first one, which is hardly a sign of high intelligence. Second, real research in any area is a full-time occupation, so no matter how many PhDs you have, you can use only one. Third, I don’t know a single substantive achievement in any area (I am talking about natural sciences, not BS “humanities”) by a person with two PhDs.

    Also, no scientist of note ever worked for NASA or WHO. There is good reason for it: when you are naturally creative, you don’t want to be a part of a hierarchy.

    Dual degree MD-PhD programs also make little sense: both practicing medicine and doing research properly require all your time and energy. Besides, these are opposite worldviews. As I tell grad students and applicants, scientists survive by being creative, whereas you don’t want your physician to be creative: that would be dangerous. In the US MD-PhD programs make practical sense: when you are in this program, you don’t pay med school tuition. Thus, you invest three extra years to save $200,000-250,000, which is a rational choice.

    I think you are right about motivation. In my experience success in science equals intelligence multiplied by the drive to the power of three. Thus, strong drive can compensate for moderate intelligence, but no level of intelligence can compensate for low drive.

    So-called elite Universities are not necessarily that good, at least not all of them. Say, MIT or Caltech remain top-notch, whereas Harvard, Berkeley, or Yale have degraded a lot lately, and are heading down rapidly with “diversity” BS. As the joke has it, an American University is a place where Russians teach Chinese. There is some truth in it. I had quite a few undergrad volunteers in my lab over the years (I like to give people a chance, and many turn out useful on balance). Naturally, this is based on self-selection. Americans are a small minority, most are Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Vietnamese, Cubans, etc. Good ones get their name on a paper or two and get a strong letter of recommendation from me. Usually it pushes their applications to grad or med schools over the edge, so they are grateful.

    • Replies: @Wency
    , @Rattus Norwegius
  179. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Triteleia Laxa

    They would mostly laugh at you for suggesting that they are indoctrinated by their elders. They actually consider their Wokeness to be an act of rebellion against their elders.

    Nor does it happen through school, but through influencers on Instagram and TikTok, who are mostly young. It is a mostly organic movement, however much that hurts to realise.

    That’s a crucial point.

    A huge weakness of the far right/dissident right/nationalist right/traditionalist right, the various groups that together comprise what might be called the Cultural Right, is their complete inability to understand what is really going on and their complete inability to understand how the Cultural Left and the normies actually think.

    Liberals and Cultural Leftists really do believe that they are brave idealistic rebels fighting against the overwhelming forces of social oppression. In the US they really do believe that they are courageously taking on what they honestly believe is the overwhelming malevolent power of the Religious Right. They genuinely believe that they are fighting massively powerful forces of institutional racism and institutional sexism and institutional homophobia.

    They really truly believe that they are the anti-Establishment forces struggling against racist cops and Christians who are about to turn The Hand Maid’s Tale into a reality. They believe that this is a genuine imminent threat and that the sinister forces of the right-wing fascist establishment are intending to bring back the Jim Crow laws, start lynching blacks and start executing homosexuals. They think that the fascist threat is real and immediate.

    They really do believe that they are the underdogs. That gives them enormous glamour and an enormous cool factor.

    They also really do sincerely believe a large proportion of the stuff they claim to believe in. They’re not just innocent dupes of Jewish or communist conspiracies. They really do sincerely believe in racial equality and sexual equality. And most normies believe in things like racial equality and sexual equality.

    ‘They have been manipulated into crazy stuff like Wokeism and the trans insanity but their basic core liberal beliefs are sincerely held. The Cultural Right might not like that but it’s no use retreating into a fantasy world where society can be restored to the way it was in the 1950s.

    • Agree: Triteleia Laxa, iffen
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  180. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Triteleia Laxa

    The best question is not who taught them this stuff, it is facile and did not need teaching, but where is the vision that is better?

    Yep. That’s another massive failure of the Cultural Right. A failure to articulate an alternative vision that might actually appeal to a majority of the population. The Cultural Right gives the impression that all it has to offer is a lot of whining about how we need to go back to the way things were in the 1950s (and in some case Cultural Rightists want go back to the way things were in the 19th century or even the 17th century).

    Ordinary people look at the package that the Cultural Right wants to sell them and at best it seems stifling and boring and negative and at worst it sounds like a fascist or theocratic dystopia. It’s a package that most ordinary people do not want to buy, and will not buy.

    If people won’t buy your product that might be because your marketing is poor, but it might be that it’s the wrong product. You might need to look at a major product redesign.

    • Agree: iffen
  181. TCPS says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    When called out on your BS with actual evidence, this is all you can say in reply. Disgraceful. I’m sorry I ever wasted time on you.

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  182. @Triteleia Laxa

    I wouldn’t call it an “organic” movement, it’s definitely top-down and comes from the elites, but it doesn’t seem that way to woke youth.

    An interesting point in my observation, as a school teacher who deals with “Zoomers” on a regular basis, is that the woke kids overwhelmingly come from the bourgeoisie themselves. Poor/working class white kids tend to be pretty conservative and anti-woke. Essentially the woke zoomers are LARPing as heroes of the poor and down trodden when in fact they are the most spoiled, privileged group of human beings the world has ever known. At least that seems to be the case here in the Southern US.

  183. Bashibuzuk says:
    @TCPS

    Yeah sure, having 1,5 trillion taken from RusFed is not important enough. You must be freaking rich man if 1,5 Trl is pocket change for you. (Sarc)

    OTOH the queer question is of paramount importance in your view and seemingly determines which nation is more based than others – Freudian much… Anything you need to discuss with your shrink buddy?

    When homosex is more critical than goddamn capital flight, that is a marker in my book that someone hasn’t figured his basis / superstructure right.

    Bottom line, I have adequately assessed your intellectual capacity and your dishonesty in my first comments and hereby you are confirmed an imbecile. Now bounce and run…

    😆

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  184. @Mr Woggins

    I wouldn’t call it an “organic” movement, it’s definitely top-down and comes from the elites, but it doesn’t seem that way to woke youth.

    Where does your certainty come from? Why are twenty somethings, who grew up going to private Catholic schools, even in places like Brazil, as woke as a New York 20 somethings? Even those who didn’t grow up with a TV in the home?

    An interesting point in my observation, as a school teacher who deals with “Zoomers” on a regular basis, is that the woke kids overwhelmingly come from the bourgeoisie themselves.

    Yes.

    Essentially the woke zoomers are LARPing as heroes of the poor and down trodden when in fact they are the most spoiled, privileged group of human beings the world has ever known.

    Here is a good answer.

    People who “are the most spoiled privileged group of human beings the world has ever known” don’t need a top down campaign to feel guilty about it.

    It is normal to feel guilty about it. Most people would actually need an overwhelming top down campaign to not feel guilty about it.

    The problem is that young people are often not great at processing their feelings in a measured and sensible manner. Old people tend to be bad at this too, but less bad.

    This is why religious and societal rituals often were there to allow people to process things like this type of guilt.

    Unprocessed feelings are very dangerous. Most humans don’t even have the strength and courage to be aware of them. They will therefore deal with them in odd ways.

    One particularly stupid, but also common, way, to deal with the feeling of guilt is to construct a system of thinking, which allows you to blame those who you feel guilty towards as being guilty in some similar way themselves.

    These young privileged people, you teach, feel guilty towards their parents and guilty towards people in society who are worse off than them, but look similar to them; as it is natural to feel those affinities and guilts most strongly.

    But to deal with this overwhelming guilt, that a spiritual system might help them to deal with, a stupid politics of Wokeism has developed instead.

    Wokeism allows them to project the sins they think they have onto other white people, transforming it into an easy to deal with guilt based on skin colour; rather than a very hard one to deal with of ridiculous privilege. They also feel more secure with more people having to feel that guilt. It even allows them to hate poorer white people, or their parents, for the supposed crime of racism, but really because their existence makes these kids feel guilty.

    It is extremely rare that people can loudly proclaim in public their real shame. Like one in a million. They will even create a delusional shame to hide on top of it and proclaim that to protect themselves first.

    The dissident right kind of helps by trying to get them to see their own elite status (coastal elite), but mostly this just makes them feel more guilty and increases their need to project outwards. It is a vicious cycle.

    You can’t just expose people’s shame. You need to also comfort, soothe and validate them, for them to be comfortable with it and not hate you for doing so. You’re dealing with things that they find so scary and awful, that they literally hide it from their own consciousness.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @reiner Tor
  185. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Triteleia Laxa

    You can’t just expose people’s shame. You need to also comfort, soothe and validate them, for them to be comfortable with it and not hate you for doing so.

    Liberalism in general, and Wokeism and Social Justice in particular, are incredibly effective at offering that comforting, soothing and validating. Not only do those ideologies (as you pointed out) allow people to project their guilt onto others, they also offer a massive self-righteousness hit. And there is nothing so sweet as self-righteousness. It’s better than sex.

    So Wokeists and SJWs don’t just get their guilt relieved, they end up feeling incredibly good about themselves. As you’ve also pointed out, it appeals to the narcissism of the young.

    It’s like Christianity without the guilt and shame.

    • Agree: Triteleia Laxa
  186. @dfordoom

    It’s a package that most ordinary people do not want to buy, and will not buy.

    It’s a package (or rather a bunch of loosely connected viewpoints and opinions) which is unavailable anywhere in the movies, on social media, it also contradicts what they were taught at school from early childhood, and what people have to pretend they believe even if they don’t.

    Also, packages can’t just develop out of nowhere. It’s not like you can just develop an attractive alternative package while it’s practically illegal to express those points of view, for example you will be thrown out of your job if it turns out you were blogging about some anti-woke stuff (with little chance of ever finding a similarly good job), especially if you are smart. Anti-Nazi or anti-communist dissidents didn’t develop some attractive packages either. There were some attractive anti-Nazi and anti-communist cultural-political packages around, but those were developed outside of these totalitarian systems. (You could often find them literally in the movies, as the most popular movies in communist countries were usually produced in Hollywood.)

    I would say that there’s no organic way that a fully developed and attractive anti-woke package gets developed in the West. And outside of the West it’s only possible if other countries become more powerful and richer or at least more developed in some ways than the West with at least pockets of wealth above the richest western places.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  187. @Triteleia Laxa

    They would mostly laugh at you for suggesting that they are indoctrinated by their elders.

    I didn’t argue that they have an accurate view of how they formed their opinions. Also it’s a straw man to say that teenagers who would otherwise be conservative are suddenly indoctrinated by their high school teachers.

    Obviously it starts at an early age and it’s done by the whole of society, including not only schools but things like Hollywood movies and pop stars. It includes the parents, actually. I bet you dollars to donuts that on average parents are speaking and behaving more woke than they truly are, even in front of their children. You believe that all those speech codes in the office have not even the slightest effect on how people speak at home? There are many people who are kinda half woke, at the office they will be fully woke, but at home three quarters woke. This provides very little resistance to wokeness.

    Then there’s the fact that you don’t want your kids run into problems at school. So you will avoid certain topics which they might tell others at school.

    We’ve actually seen a successful utterly top down indoctrination in Germany, where teenagers were way more thoroughly Nazi (and sincere honest to God true believers) than any other segments of society, certainly more than their teachers. Still it’d be wrong to say that teachers didn’t play any role in their indoctrination. As did parents in many cases.

    It is a mostly organic movement,

    It’s clearly favored by TPTB. The alternative viewpoints are oppressed, banned, people lose their jobs etc.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  188. @dfordoom

    Liberals and Cultural Leftists really do believe that they are brave idealistic rebels fighting against the overwhelming forces of social oppression.

    Funny that you think you are the only one among dissidents who believes that, when I’m pretty sure I’ve read at least a thousand times from at least a thousand different commenters how leftists always believe that they are Speaking Truth to Power or whatever. I think almost everyone among dissidents knows this leftist belief.

    They also really do sincerely believe a large proportion of the stuff they claim to believe in. They’re not just innocent dupes of Jewish or communist conspiracies.

    The question is why they believe sincerely in that stuff and not some other stuff. Also sincere beliefs don’t contradict that they might be innocent dupes of the Jews or whoever. The definition of an innocent dupe is that he’s tricked into believing something untrue.

  189. @Mr Woggins

    the woke kids overwhelmingly come from the bourgeoisie themselves. Poor/working class white kids tend to be pretty conservative and anti-woke.

    It’s pretty much like with their parents. Upper middle class parents are usually way more woke than working class rednecks. So this points that the parents themselves might’ve played a role in the indoctrination.

    What seems to be happening here is that we have an utterly insane ideology. While the ideology itself is utterly insane and results in utterly insane things, the original adherents grew up with another ideology and so knew that life was more complex and perhaps also had some common sense. However, they agreed with or at any rate followed the speech codes of their ideology, and forgot to pass on to their children most of the common sense stuff. For example it’s “not nice” to say that blacks are dumber than whites (and the average white is already not very smart to begin with), and so they never said it out loud to their children. It never occurred to them that their children would then not know it, or at least they would be less aware of it on average than themselves. Liberalism triumphed in many waves, but since the triumph of the civil rights movement we are seeing the third generation of kids growing up, and each generation has a very similar core ideology but less and less common sense to balance it out. No doubt technology plays a role as well, and also that the progressively more woke public with each generation purges the public space of all common sense or older ideologies and create a more and more woke public discourse (and education curriculum etc.)

    So perhaps those woke kids at school have the ideology of their parents, but amplified by their peer groups with the peers with similar parents, as well as social media (again with many influencers with similar family backgrounds), and they are also perhaps lacking the common sense and life experience of their parents to balance out the ideology.

  190. dfordoom says: • Website
    @reiner Tor

    Also, packages can’t just develop out of nowhere. It’s not like you can just develop an attractive alternative package while it’s practically illegal to express those points of view,

    The big failing of the Cultural Right is that they failed to develop such a package twenty years ago, when it would have been perfectly possible to do. Even ten years ago it could have been done. But it wasn’t done.

    The Right lost its way back in the 80s when the Economic Right and the neocons took over right-wing political parties. Since then most people have pretty much assumed that the Right stands for greed and endless imperial wars.

    I think you’re correct that it’s now quite impossible for any alternative package to gain any traction. But I think the root cause is that the Cultural Right never was very attractive anyway.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  191. @Bashibuzuk

    basis / superstructure

    Are you a Marxist? They believe in the absolute supremacy of the economy. Because otherwise it’s pretty obvious that the economy is not the only thing important, and the ideology can affect the economy just as much as the other way around.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  192. @dfordoom

    The big failing of the Cultural Right is that they failed to develop such a package twenty years ago, when it would have been perfectly possible to do.

    Race was already basically illegal in the 1980s. Interestingly there was a rightist package less than a century ago which was so attractive that people were willing to die for it in an obviously lost war, and it had race as its basis. Blood ties are in general pretty powerful in grabbing the imagination, and it’s interesting that modern science confirms that members of races as well as most modern ethnic groups are pretty closely related to each other.

  193. @Triteleia Laxa

    People who “are the most spoiled privileged group of human beings the world has ever known” don’t need a top down campaign to feel guilty about it.

    Are you sure about it? The way people handle this is that they normally don’t think too hard about others, they mostly just compare themselves to their peers. I have seen kids who were rich in Hungary (obviously not rich when traveling in Western Europe), but guilt was not among the feelings they had. In fact they sometimes even made fun of people poorer than themselves, or at least they were pretty arrogant about it. In general I think the most natural behavior of privileged young people is to enjoy life, compare themselves to their peers (i.e. feel envy to those even more privileged than themselves), and be arrogant to those below them (and usually not even notice them).

    You might think that Hungarian upper or upper middle class kids are genetically different from American upper middle class kids, but here’s the thing. Those people I was talking about are now in their forties. Many of them have in the meantime swallowed the American woke stuff hook, line, and sinker. They are still arrogant to ordinary Hungarians (if anything, this got much worse than before), but they are now oh so concerned about the Gypsies, the refugees, the third world peoples, as well as the environment.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  194. dfordoom says: • Website
    @reiner Tor

    Also it’s a straw man to say that teenagers who would otherwise be conservative are suddenly indoctrinated by their high school teachers.

    Indoctrination works much much more effectively if you’re trying to indoctrinate people into something that is at least roughly consistent with what they already believe.

    Wokeism and Social Justice have been so successful because people already believed that equality, fairness, justice and tolerance were good things. Americans in particular already believed in the whole “all men are created equal” thing. They already believed that racial equality was a worthwhile goal. It wasn’t difficult to convince people that racial equality was being thwarted by dark sinister forces like institutional racism or that racial equality was being thwarted by bad people.

    It wasn’t difficult to persuade people to accept homosexual marriage because they already believed in tolerance for homosexuals. Homosexual marriage could be sold as a logical extension of that.

    Even the trans thing wasn’t that hard since people were already receptive to the idea that “everyone should be free to be whatever they want to be.”

    On the other hand it would be vastly more difficult to indoctrinate people into beliefs that are inconsistent with what they already believe. If you tried to persuade people that the vote should be taken away from women, or that fornication should be a criminal offence (and I’ve encountered dissident rightists who push those very ideas) you’d be taking on an immensely difficult task. In the former case you’d be swimming against a tide that has been running in the direction of female equality for a couple of centuries.

    You can sell an idea that is just outside the limits of the current Overton Window but it’s very difficult to sell an idea that is miles and miles outside the current Overton Window.

    • Agree: Triteleia Laxa
  195. Bashibuzuk says:
    @reiner Tor

    I think Marx got a lot of things right, but was wrong or dishonest about class war. He was mostly right about economy being of paramount importance. This doesn’t preclude ideology from interfering with the optimal economic functioning.

    In my discussion with the RusFed Troll above, he preferred ignoring the kleptocratic aspects of the RusFed economic model and agitate the Globohomo scarecrow as a distraction. That’s why I mentioned the importance of economic basis to him. It is beyond ridiculous to have a fixation on the sexuality of others when those who govern you are bleeding your people dry and sending their ill gained wealth to their supposed archenemies in the West.

    Always follow the moneys. When the RusFed kleptocrats will end their capital flight and repatriate their assets, only then will I start to believe into their patriotic inclinations. Until today I have no reason to believe anything they pretend about this matter.

  196. @reiner Tor

    The problem is that there is no “normal way” to deal with that kind of guilt, and never has been. It is a hard thing to do.

    In fact they sometimes even made fun of people poorer than themselves, or at least they were pretty arrogant about it

    Another coping mechanism, though one which often turns into a negative spiral.

    Those people I was talking about are now in their forties. Many of them have in the meantime swallowed the American woke stuff hook, line, and sinker. They are still arrogant to ordinary Hungarians (if anything, this got much worse than before), but they are now oh so concerned about the Gypsies, the refugees, the third world peoples, as well as the environment.

    They were extremely thirsty for something, and Wokism hit the spot.

    There were other drinks at the bar, certainly. It isn’t like these people had never heard of social conservatism, communism, Christianity and so on, but Wokism, it seems, easily, most suited their needs.

    I’m trying to elaborate on what those needs are and why Wokism meets them so well. The point being to encourage people to develop “a drink”, which meets those needs better, but is also a bit healthier.

    People here often see one product completely dominating the market and allege conspiracy. This allows them to leave their product unchanged, cry about it being unfair and still feel better informed, more intellectually rigorous and wise. A delusion which comes at the direct cost of expanding their market share.

    All the shops will stock the product which sells most easily.

    Wokism seems to be the very best product on the market. Like “Crack Cola”, as an upgrade on “Coca Cola”.

    The key is to remember that “best product” does not mean “healthiest” or “most sane”, because people’s needs are not often “healthy” or “sane”, in an obvious way.

    We are a complicated species living in extremely complex societies and Wokism is the best people have right now for coming to terms with that.

    Contemporary life bends people into certain shapes. To feel whole, they needs ideas which fill out those shapes. Wokism fits amazingly well. You can see that in its incredible success.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  197. Wency says:
    @AnonfromTN

    If someone addresses me as Prof. or Dr. Prof., that person is certainly a European. An American would simply address me as Dr.

    I thought “Prof” was lower-ranking. It’s a long-running joke that Ph.Ds want to be called “Doctor” but few people respect that wish and most instead reserve the title for MDs.

    For my part, I still resist addressing MDs as “Doctor Brown” or whatever. Most of the time I call them “Doc”.

  198. @AnonfromTN

    In Norway, your students would address you with your personal name.

  199. @Triteleia Laxa

    What makes you think that they felt guilt while they were arrogant? I have a much simpler model. They were simply consuming American or Western European media or Hungarian media which translated the Western ideas into Hungarian. The result was that they slowly internalized the ideology.

    It’s an interesting ideological transformation I’ve seen among many people. For example my mom (an avid consumer of Hungarian leftist media) used to be homophobic by 21st century standards, but sometimes between her 50th and 70th birthdays got converted to LGBT tolerance. The Hungarian leftist media itself was not very much into this kind of tolerance until maybe the early part of this two decade period, so it might be even faster and more amazing.

    People here often see one product completely dominating the market and allege conspiracy.

    Because anyone who even asks for a different kind of product will lose his livelihood and be banned from social media. That’s not a conspiracy, by the way, that’s out in the open. It might be a marketplace of ideas, but it’s certainly not a free marketplace of ideas. And there’s no reason to believe that people would still choose it if other ideas were also available.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  200. dfordoom says: • Website
    @reiner Tor

    It’s an interesting ideological transformation I’ve seen among many people. For example my mom (an avid consumer of Hungarian leftist media) used to be homophobic by 21st century standards, but sometimes between her 50th and 70th birthdays got converted to LGBT tolerance.

    I saw that happen with an elderly female relative in Australia. In her case she was indoctrinated into it by her grandchildren. They were attending a Catholic school and they got the full spectrum of Wokeness and PC drilled into them.

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