The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersRussian Reaction Blog
Why Hungary Ethnically Cleansed Richard Spencer
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Richard Spencer and some other Alt Righters wanted to hold an NPI conference in Budapest on October 3-5, 2014 in honor of BASED Hungary.

It… didn’t quite work out as planned.

Richard Spencer and one other person was detained in uncomfortable conditions for a day, and summarily deported back to the US.

Three years later, thanks to a freedom of information request, we know why Hungary did this.

https://www.scribd.com/document/362633444/Hungary-Richard-Spencer-NPI-Records

The fun starts at around page 71. Apparently the BASED Hungarians viewed Richard Spencer and a non-affiliated journalist who was (apparently randomly) detained with him as a “national security threat.”

hungary-ethnically-cleanses-richard-spencer

Considering his own record, methinks Márton Gyöngyösi might just be a hypocrite.

reason-hungary-deports-spencer

Anyhow, in all fairness, the US State Department people – at least, based on the extracts presented here – seemed to be quite conscientious about working to get American citizens out of trouble. There’s nothing you can even complain about there.

Orban’s regime… well, that’s another matter. Here’s the basic gist of the matter:

Joint neoliberal/Alt Right fantasy: BASED Orban as the Horthy to Herr Putler.

Reality: These BASED regimes using the authoritarian power at their disposal to demonstratively crack down on racists, nationalists, and sundry enemies of ZOG to prove their “moderate” credentials to… ZOG.

Maybe ZOG is preferable after all? At least there tends to be more rule of law and due process there.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Alt Right, Freedom of Speech, Hungary 
Hide 155 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. German_reader says:

    I can’t agree about that, Orban may be flawed in many ways, but from my perspective in the German madhouse, his stance on the “refugee” invasion is what counts, and not only has he been a source of inspiration on that since the dark days of 2015, he’s also been involved in practical measures for closing down the Balkans route. Richard Spencer by contrast is just some fool with a Twitter account whose claim to fame rests in being punched by Antifa, and who indulges megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire or whatever. The cancelling of his stupid conference is irrelevant imo, and it’s well within the rights of the Hungarians to control the activities of foreigners within their country (even more so given that this nutcase Dugin was also invited).

    • Agree: AM
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @German_reader

    It must be noted that Orbán only shut it down after leftist media outlets started giving it huge publicity in Hungary (something like the week before the conference), accusing Orbán of "looking the other way". Well, it was a cheap way for Orbán not to look the other way: he simply shut it down. He didn't care one way or the other.

    , @hyperbola
    @German_reader

    Frankly Richard Spencer looks more and more like "controlled opposition" that is used to "justify" zionist propaganda campaigns.
    What Hungary and other east European countries ought to be doing is to open criminal investigations against the likes of Soros/Rothschild for using immigration of "refugees" as a weapon against their countries.

    The Weaponisation of the Refugee | Dissident Voice
    Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism's War on Europe (Part 2 of an 11 Part Series)
    https://dissidentvoice.org/2016/01/the-weaponisation-of-the-refugee/

    Rothschild's “Slaughter Ships” | Dissident Voice
    Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism's War on Europe (Part 4 of an 11 Part Series)
    https://dissidentvoice.org/2016/01/rothschilds-slaughter-ships/

    Replies: @Art Deco, @reiner Tor

    , @Diversity Heretic
    @German_reader

    Richard Spencer does what he does in his own name and suffers the consequences personally. They went after his mother in Montana and he got kicked out of his fitness club. (It's usually easier to get a divorce than cancel a fitness club membership.) He's been punched in the head and I think that his family split up. (Don't know the circumstances, but his political activities probably didn't help.) I've never heard him argue for a global white empire--I think he's quite content to leave Asia to Asians, Africa to Africans, Arabia to Arabs, etc.

    You and I comment behind pseudonyms. Who among us is more valuable to the cause of European survival?

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @reiner Tor
    @German_reader


    megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire
     
    I don't think there's a lot of megalomania there. If the US had a white nationalist government, with the White Nationalist Party controlling both houses of Congress, while European countries had at least moderately nationalist governments, and NATO got expanded to include the Eastern Slavs (Russia and Ukraine - I know it sounds like fantasy, but if Romania and Hungary can be members of the same alliance, or if Serbia and Kosovo can simultaneously lead accession talks to the EU, then why not?), then you'd already have the "white empire", however you'd call it.

    Now of course it's unlikely that anybody even remotely "white nationalist" could win the US presidency (Trump is not one, as is obvious), much less control Congress, but probably nobody liked by any of us here (not even citizenists or whatever) will control any of the European governments (not the major West European countries, at any rate), so it's all moot. But if we're occasionally fantasizing about what our governments should do, why can't Spencer indulge in his own fantasies? They are not quite megalomaniacal, for example they don't contain plans for conquest.

    Replies: @German_reader, @reiner Tor

    , @Just Sayin'
    @German_reader

    >megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire or whatever

    It's as much a white alliance of different nations as a white empire, not really megalomaniacal as much as a vehicle for thinking about the big problems we (all) face in the future, as a minority

    , @Cagey Beast
    @German_reader

    I think Richard Spencer is doing a lot of good within the US but he seems to be consistently wrong about national identities and sentiments elsewhere in the White world.

    Replies: @German_reader

  2. @German_reader
    I can't agree about that, Orban may be flawed in many ways, but from my perspective in the German madhouse, his stance on the "refugee" invasion is what counts, and not only has he been a source of inspiration on that since the dark days of 2015, he's also been involved in practical measures for closing down the Balkans route. Richard Spencer by contrast is just some fool with a Twitter account whose claim to fame rests in being punched by Antifa, and who indulges megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire or whatever. The cancelling of his stupid conference is irrelevant imo, and it's well within the rights of the Hungarians to control the activities of foreigners within their country (even more so given that this nutcase Dugin was also invited).

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @hyperbola, @Diversity Heretic, @reiner Tor, @Just Sayin', @Cagey Beast

    It must be noted that Orbán only shut it down after leftist media outlets started giving it huge publicity in Hungary (something like the week before the conference), accusing Orbán of “looking the other way”. Well, it was a cheap way for Orbán not to look the other way: he simply shut it down. He didn’t care one way or the other.

  3. Regarding Gyöngyösi, although it’s difficult to know, but I think his boss, the party chairman Gábor Vona was the one who strongly suggested to him not to attend this conference. (Obviously if you asked them, both of them would deny it.)

    This was around the time Jobbik started its “cuteness campaign” (it involved things like posters with Vona posing with young girls or guys or families and cute dogs or cats, etc.), which initially only seemed like a cosmetic change to the party’s rough far right radical image, but over time it marked the start of the party’s strong leftward drift. They’re still on the right, but not much to the right of Fidesz anymore.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @reiner Tor

    And of course it was for the same reason why Orbán shut it down: the leftist media publicity. Otherwise he'd have participated no problem.

    , @Hector_St_Clare
    @reiner Tor

    Reiner Tor,

    What's Jobbik's position on the economy?

    And for that matter what do you think of the Czech elections a week or two ago? I was actually really surprised Okamura did that well (he pretty much doubled his vote share in the last month or two), and the first exit polls had him at second place though he eventually dropped to fifth. I thought that the Social Democrats and Communists taking a relatively hard line against Muslim migration & quotas would help insulate them against election losses, but it didn't.

  4. @reiner Tor
    Regarding Gyöngyösi, although it's difficult to know, but I think his boss, the party chairman Gábor Vona was the one who strongly suggested to him not to attend this conference. (Obviously if you asked them, both of them would deny it.)

    This was around the time Jobbik started its "cuteness campaign" (it involved things like posters with Vona posing with young girls or guys or families and cute dogs or cats, etc.), which initially only seemed like a cosmetic change to the party's rough far right radical image, but over time it marked the start of the party's strong leftward drift. They're still on the right, but not much to the right of Fidesz anymore.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Hector_St_Clare

    And of course it was for the same reason why Orbán shut it down: the leftist media publicity. Otherwise he’d have participated no problem.

  5. Alt-Right cluelessness on Russia is amazing. I’ve seen people arguing that the censorship laws are only used against NGOs and leftists, including the recent vpn ban

  6. Elections are coming in a few months, who needs troubles. Apparently the Otpor guy Popovic is already here, why make things easier for him.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    Oh wait, this was 2014? You fooled me.

  7. Hungary’s government doesn’t want to associate itself and its common sense immigration policy with neo-Nazis or pseudo-Nazis. Seems reasonable.

    • Replies: @AM
    @AP


    Hungary’s government doesn’t want to associate itself and its common sense immigration policy with neo-Nazis or pseudo-Nazis. Seems reasonable.
     
    Hungary might have a reason or two (or 12) not want to be associated with people who think Nazi stuff is just another historical blip and people should lighten up.

    That's just yet another fail of the Spencer crowd.
    , @Seamus Padraig
    @AP

    Maybe Spencer & Co. should try Ukraine instead?

    Replies: @AP

  8. The inability to cooperate internationally is a structural problem of nationalists.
    It really doesn’t matter if Orban kicked out some minor alt-right clowns who are famous in a tiny bubble. I would do the same if it hurt m country in any way.
    The inability of nationalist parties to work together in places like the European parliament and of populist governments to cooperate is far more serious.
    This difficulty exists because of a xenophobic instinct that is always present in nationalism, so it’s something that will never go away.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    @Pseudonymic Handle


    This difficulty exists because of a xenophobic instinct that is always present in nationalism, so it’s something that will never go away.
     
    Of course. Ethnic nationalism is bullshit and a dead end; sovereignism is the way to go.
    , @German_reader
    @Pseudonymic Handle

    Yes, that's depressing...it's unfortunate that there's always historical baggage getting in the way of cooperation, and many nationalists are too narrow-minded to see the bigger picture. It's also more pc and more "respectable" to bash other Europeans than to focus on the dangers of non-European immigration.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare

    , @Wency
    @Pseudonymic Handle

    I agree and would point to the failure of Intermarium as the classic case, in much of the same territory we're discussing here. But then again, even England and France didn't cooperate all that well in 1939-1940.

    The good news is that the Left has certain tendencies towards "circular firing squads" as well.

    , @Anonymous
    @Pseudonymic Handle

    You are totally wrong. The national socialistic Germany had very good relationship with other nationalistic countries and very good cooperation. In contrary: Rothschild's Great Britain and Israel's USA have blackmail relationship with many other countries (for instance with still occupied Germany), and they made most wars worldwide at least since appr. 1900.
    Btw: Israel is Rothschild's Israel living of blackmaled money from Germany and the USA.

    , @Seamus Padraig
    @Pseudonymic Handle

    What a pile of crap. Nationalism does not necessarily entail xenophobia; it just means putting the national interest first. Historically and presently, nationalist régimes and movements have had little problem co-operating with one another, so long as their interests are aligned. If you want an extreme example, just consider the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis during WWII. Or, somewhat closer to home, the Operation Condor countries in S. America in seventies. (I assume everyone here would consider Pinochet, Gaultieri and Stroesser to be nationalists, right?)

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

  9. @Pseudonymic Handle
    The inability to cooperate internationally is a structural problem of nationalists.
    It really doesn't matter if Orban kicked out some minor alt-right clowns who are famous in a tiny bubble. I would do the same if it hurt m country in any way.
    The inability of nationalist parties to work together in places like the European parliament and of populist governments to cooperate is far more serious.
    This difficulty exists because of a xenophobic instinct that is always present in nationalism, so it's something that will never go away.

    Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji, @German_reader, @Wency, @Anonymous, @Seamus Padraig

    This difficulty exists because of a xenophobic instinct that is always present in nationalism, so it’s something that will never go away.

    Of course. Ethnic nationalism is bullshit and a dead end; sovereignism is the way to go.

  10. @Mao Cheng Ji
    Elections are coming in a few months, who needs troubles. Apparently the Otpor guy Popovic is already here, why make things easier for him.

    Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Oh wait, this was 2014? You fooled me.

  11. @Pseudonymic Handle
    The inability to cooperate internationally is a structural problem of nationalists.
    It really doesn't matter if Orban kicked out some minor alt-right clowns who are famous in a tiny bubble. I would do the same if it hurt m country in any way.
    The inability of nationalist parties to work together in places like the European parliament and of populist governments to cooperate is far more serious.
    This difficulty exists because of a xenophobic instinct that is always present in nationalism, so it's something that will never go away.

    Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji, @German_reader, @Wency, @Anonymous, @Seamus Padraig

    Yes, that’s depressing…it’s unfortunate that there’s always historical baggage getting in the way of cooperation, and many nationalists are too narrow-minded to see the bigger picture. It’s also more pc and more “respectable” to bash other Europeans than to focus on the dangers of non-European immigration.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Hector_St_Clare
    @German_reader

    It's not as though inter-European migration (and with apologies to your ethnicity, the migration of, uh, Germans into neighboring countries was a big part of that) hasn't caused huge conflict in the past. It makes a lot of sense why Danes wouldn't want to be swallowed up by Sweden, Poles by Russians, Slovaks by Hungarians, Czechs by Germans, etc..

    Replies: @German_reader

  12. I’m not sure what you guys are talking about. The only cases I can see of European nationalists fighting are Jobbik against Romanian nationalists and Golden Dawn against Erdogan. Marine Le Pen has good relations with anti immigration parties all over Europe as does Farage.

    Bannon and Gorka are trying to expand Breitbart into the UK and EU also.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Greasy William

    > Jobbik against Romanian nationalists

    What Romanian nationalists? The country has a German as president, and his party is run by a guy named, lol, Orban. The other party nominated as prime minister a Turk. The outgoing prime minister is one Czolosz. The third party is currently ran by a guy names Barna, who replaced another one named Levente.

    In case you didn't get it, these are all Hungarian names.

  13. @German_reader
    I can't agree about that, Orban may be flawed in many ways, but from my perspective in the German madhouse, his stance on the "refugee" invasion is what counts, and not only has he been a source of inspiration on that since the dark days of 2015, he's also been involved in practical measures for closing down the Balkans route. Richard Spencer by contrast is just some fool with a Twitter account whose claim to fame rests in being punched by Antifa, and who indulges megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire or whatever. The cancelling of his stupid conference is irrelevant imo, and it's well within the rights of the Hungarians to control the activities of foreigners within their country (even more so given that this nutcase Dugin was also invited).

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @hyperbola, @Diversity Heretic, @reiner Tor, @Just Sayin', @Cagey Beast

    Frankly Richard Spencer looks more and more like “controlled opposition” that is used to “justify” zionist propaganda campaigns.
    What Hungary and other east European countries ought to be doing is to open criminal investigations against the likes of Soros/Rothschild for using immigration of “refugees” as a weapon against their countries.

    The Weaponisation of the Refugee | Dissident Voice
    Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe (Part 2 of an 11 Part Series)
    https://dissidentvoice.org/2016/01/the-weaponisation-of-the-refugee/

    Rothschild’s “Slaughter Ships” | Dissident Voice
    Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe (Part 4 of an 11 Part Series)
    https://dissidentvoice.org/2016/01/rothschilds-slaughter-ships/

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @hyperbola

    Mr. Orban is a man with serious business to attend to. He should be ignoring you because you're a poisonous fantasist.

    , @reiner Tor
    @hyperbola


    Frankly Richard Spencer looks more and more like “controlled opposition”
     
    He's genuine, quite obviously. His mother was threatened in Montana, and he himself was sucker-punched. Are you insinuating he's doing it for... money, or what?

    Replies: @laura r, @ben tillman

  14. @Pseudonymic Handle
    The inability to cooperate internationally is a structural problem of nationalists.
    It really doesn't matter if Orban kicked out some minor alt-right clowns who are famous in a tiny bubble. I would do the same if it hurt m country in any way.
    The inability of nationalist parties to work together in places like the European parliament and of populist governments to cooperate is far more serious.
    This difficulty exists because of a xenophobic instinct that is always present in nationalism, so it's something that will never go away.

    Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji, @German_reader, @Wency, @Anonymous, @Seamus Padraig

    I agree and would point to the failure of Intermarium as the classic case, in much of the same territory we’re discussing here. But then again, even England and France didn’t cooperate all that well in 1939-1940.

    The good news is that the Left has certain tendencies towards “circular firing squads” as well.

  15. The nationalist governments of the Visagrad group consistently block the EU attempts to investigate them for breaching ‘European values.’

    Nationalist forces and governments are increasingly aligned, and now we even have transnational organizations like Generation Identity which stress each European group is an expression of the same substrate.

    What we need to promote is the following:

    -Local identity
    -National loyalty
    -European consciousness

  16. @German_reader
    I can't agree about that, Orban may be flawed in many ways, but from my perspective in the German madhouse, his stance on the "refugee" invasion is what counts, and not only has he been a source of inspiration on that since the dark days of 2015, he's also been involved in practical measures for closing down the Balkans route. Richard Spencer by contrast is just some fool with a Twitter account whose claim to fame rests in being punched by Antifa, and who indulges megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire or whatever. The cancelling of his stupid conference is irrelevant imo, and it's well within the rights of the Hungarians to control the activities of foreigners within their country (even more so given that this nutcase Dugin was also invited).

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @hyperbola, @Diversity Heretic, @reiner Tor, @Just Sayin', @Cagey Beast

    Richard Spencer does what he does in his own name and suffers the consequences personally. They went after his mother in Montana and he got kicked out of his fitness club. (It’s usually easier to get a divorce than cancel a fitness club membership.) He’s been punched in the head and I think that his family split up. (Don’t know the circumstances, but his political activities probably didn’t help.) I’ve never heard him argue for a global white empire–I think he’s quite content to leave Asia to Asians, Africa to Africans, Arabia to Arabs, etc.

    You and I comment behind pseudonyms. Who among us is more valuable to the cause of European survival?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Diversity Heretic

    I think Richard Spencer would be better off building a career for himself (sell insurance, sell real estate, prepare tax returns, whatever) and building a family rather than engage in weird pseudo-politics. He's radioactive now. If a younger version of Richard Spencer is interested in political action, run for state legislature on a platform of cleaning up school curricula at all levels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Just Sayin', @Jim Bob Lassiter

  17. @hyperbola
    @German_reader

    Frankly Richard Spencer looks more and more like "controlled opposition" that is used to "justify" zionist propaganda campaigns.
    What Hungary and other east European countries ought to be doing is to open criminal investigations against the likes of Soros/Rothschild for using immigration of "refugees" as a weapon against their countries.

    The Weaponisation of the Refugee | Dissident Voice
    Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism's War on Europe (Part 2 of an 11 Part Series)
    https://dissidentvoice.org/2016/01/the-weaponisation-of-the-refugee/

    Rothschild's “Slaughter Ships” | Dissident Voice
    Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism's War on Europe (Part 4 of an 11 Part Series)
    https://dissidentvoice.org/2016/01/rothschilds-slaughter-ships/

    Replies: @Art Deco, @reiner Tor

    Mr. Orban is a man with serious business to attend to. He should be ignoring you because you’re a poisonous fantasist.

  18. @Diversity Heretic
    @German_reader

    Richard Spencer does what he does in his own name and suffers the consequences personally. They went after his mother in Montana and he got kicked out of his fitness club. (It's usually easier to get a divorce than cancel a fitness club membership.) He's been punched in the head and I think that his family split up. (Don't know the circumstances, but his political activities probably didn't help.) I've never heard him argue for a global white empire--I think he's quite content to leave Asia to Asians, Africa to Africans, Arabia to Arabs, etc.

    You and I comment behind pseudonyms. Who among us is more valuable to the cause of European survival?

    Replies: @Art Deco

    I think Richard Spencer would be better off building a career for himself (sell insurance, sell real estate, prepare tax returns, whatever) and building a family rather than engage in weird pseudo-politics. He’s radioactive now. If a younger version of Richard Spencer is interested in political action, run for state legislature on a platform of cleaning up school curricula at all levels.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    His family is well off, so he doesn't have to work for a living. He's not motivated to pursue a conventional career. He was interested in theater and academia before settling on political activism as a career.

    , @Anonymous
    @Art Deco

    Just as he doesn't have to pursue a conventional career, he doesn't have to pursue conventional politics since he doesn't need a conventional political career for his livelihood. He finds conventional careers and politics to be boring, in addition to being unnecessary to secure his livelihood, and thus he pursues less conventional politics.

    , @Just Sayin'
    @Art Deco

    He's ok with being radioactive in order to talk about and gradually normalize our views

    He is not radioactive because he truly does anything awful, he's radioactive because you're not allowed to talk about this stuff

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Art Deco

    Art Deco would be better off getting back to painting and collaging degenerate retro-Weimar Republic art to sell to all of his Manhattan beautiful people friends, rather than trolling on Unz.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  19. @Art Deco
    @Diversity Heretic

    I think Richard Spencer would be better off building a career for himself (sell insurance, sell real estate, prepare tax returns, whatever) and building a family rather than engage in weird pseudo-politics. He's radioactive now. If a younger version of Richard Spencer is interested in political action, run for state legislature on a platform of cleaning up school curricula at all levels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Just Sayin', @Jim Bob Lassiter

    His family is well off, so he doesn’t have to work for a living. He’s not motivated to pursue a conventional career. He was interested in theater and academia before settling on political activism as a career.

  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    @Diversity Heretic

    I think Richard Spencer would be better off building a career for himself (sell insurance, sell real estate, prepare tax returns, whatever) and building a family rather than engage in weird pseudo-politics. He's radioactive now. If a younger version of Richard Spencer is interested in political action, run for state legislature on a platform of cleaning up school curricula at all levels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Just Sayin', @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Just as he doesn’t have to pursue a conventional career, he doesn’t have to pursue conventional politics since he doesn’t need a conventional political career for his livelihood. He finds conventional careers and politics to be boring, in addition to being unnecessary to secure his livelihood, and thus he pursues less conventional politics.

  21. @German_reader
    I can't agree about that, Orban may be flawed in many ways, but from my perspective in the German madhouse, his stance on the "refugee" invasion is what counts, and not only has he been a source of inspiration on that since the dark days of 2015, he's also been involved in practical measures for closing down the Balkans route. Richard Spencer by contrast is just some fool with a Twitter account whose claim to fame rests in being punched by Antifa, and who indulges megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire or whatever. The cancelling of his stupid conference is irrelevant imo, and it's well within the rights of the Hungarians to control the activities of foreigners within their country (even more so given that this nutcase Dugin was also invited).

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @hyperbola, @Diversity Heretic, @reiner Tor, @Just Sayin', @Cagey Beast

    megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire

    I don’t think there’s a lot of megalomania there. If the US had a white nationalist government, with the White Nationalist Party controlling both houses of Congress, while European countries had at least moderately nationalist governments, and NATO got expanded to include the Eastern Slavs (Russia and Ukraine – I know it sounds like fantasy, but if Romania and Hungary can be members of the same alliance, or if Serbia and Kosovo can simultaneously lead accession talks to the EU, then why not?), then you’d already have the “white empire”, however you’d call it.

    Now of course it’s unlikely that anybody even remotely “white nationalist” could win the US presidency (Trump is not one, as is obvious), much less control Congress, but probably nobody liked by any of us here (not even citizenists or whatever) will control any of the European governments (not the major West European countries, at any rate), so it’s all moot. But if we’re occasionally fantasizing about what our governments should do, why can’t Spencer indulge in his own fantasies? They are not quite megalomaniacal, for example they don’t contain plans for conquest.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @reiner Tor


    If the US had a white nationalist government, with the White Nationalist Party controlling both houses of Congress
     
    Yes, but that's never going to happen. And frankly (and I know it'll probably be an unpopular position around here), I've pretty much written off the US and given up hope for any positive development there from our point of view. At this point all I hope for is that the US establishment will screw up so badly that US hegemony will come to an end. If that happens, a lot of possibilities may open up in Europe, at least parts of it may still be salvageable. As grim as things are, you've now got nationalist parties with fairly good results even in hyper-cucked countries like Sweden and Germany, hopefully one can build on that.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare, @Seamus Padraig

    , @reiner Tor
    @reiner Tor


    Romania and Hungary can be members of the same alliance
     
    During WW2, under a lot of German pressure, Hungary declared war on the US in December 1941. There's a (probably apocryphal) anecdote about the absurdity of its then situation. (But I think its present situation is not much better.)

    As the Hungarian ambassador was leaving DC, a US State Department official asked the Hungarian diplomat a few questions. (At the time Hungary was officially the Kingdom of Hungary, but there was no king, Admiral Horthy was the regent. He had been an admiral in the fleet of Austria-Hungary.)

    "You are a kingdom. So I guess you have a king?"
    "No, Admiral Horthy is the head of state."
    "Oh, so you have a navy."
    "No, we're landlocked."
    "Hmm. Then, how do you have any demands from the US, or territorial disputes with us?"
    "We don't. We have territorial disputes with Romania."
    "Then, why don't you declare war on Romania?"
    "It's impossible. Romania is our ally."
  22. @hyperbola
    @German_reader

    Frankly Richard Spencer looks more and more like "controlled opposition" that is used to "justify" zionist propaganda campaigns.
    What Hungary and other east European countries ought to be doing is to open criminal investigations against the likes of Soros/Rothschild for using immigration of "refugees" as a weapon against their countries.

    The Weaponisation of the Refugee | Dissident Voice
    Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism's War on Europe (Part 2 of an 11 Part Series)
    https://dissidentvoice.org/2016/01/the-weaponisation-of-the-refugee/

    Rothschild's “Slaughter Ships” | Dissident Voice
    Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism's War on Europe (Part 4 of an 11 Part Series)
    https://dissidentvoice.org/2016/01/rothschilds-slaughter-ships/

    Replies: @Art Deco, @reiner Tor

    Frankly Richard Spencer looks more and more like “controlled opposition”

    He’s genuine, quite obviously. His mother was threatened in Montana, and he himself was sucker-punched. Are you insinuating he’s doing it for… money, or what?

    • Replies: @laura r
    @reiner Tor

    richard is a circus pony show, he feeds MSM. he gives them what they want. he did call for the explusion of jew from the US. its on UTUBE. he said it would be peaceful. thanks richard, i feel better now. IMO, someones paying him. he has helped damage the nationalist movement & trump. hes bad news.

    Replies: @notanon

    , @ben tillman
    @reiner Tor


    He’s genuine, quite obviously.
     
    You're a bit too far removed to make such a confident judgment. By all appearances, he's -- at best -- LARPing or -- at worst -- on the Feds' payroll to discredit white advocacy.

    If he were genuine, he would be networking and building something in Dallas, which is where he grew up and where the greatest amount of potentially sympathetic money is.

  23. German_reader says:
    @reiner Tor
    @German_reader


    megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire
     
    I don't think there's a lot of megalomania there. If the US had a white nationalist government, with the White Nationalist Party controlling both houses of Congress, while European countries had at least moderately nationalist governments, and NATO got expanded to include the Eastern Slavs (Russia and Ukraine - I know it sounds like fantasy, but if Romania and Hungary can be members of the same alliance, or if Serbia and Kosovo can simultaneously lead accession talks to the EU, then why not?), then you'd already have the "white empire", however you'd call it.

    Now of course it's unlikely that anybody even remotely "white nationalist" could win the US presidency (Trump is not one, as is obvious), much less control Congress, but probably nobody liked by any of us here (not even citizenists or whatever) will control any of the European governments (not the major West European countries, at any rate), so it's all moot. But if we're occasionally fantasizing about what our governments should do, why can't Spencer indulge in his own fantasies? They are not quite megalomaniacal, for example they don't contain plans for conquest.

    Replies: @German_reader, @reiner Tor

    If the US had a white nationalist government, with the White Nationalist Party controlling both houses of Congress

    Yes, but that’s never going to happen. And frankly (and I know it’ll probably be an unpopular position around here), I’ve pretty much written off the US and given up hope for any positive development there from our point of view. At this point all I hope for is that the US establishment will screw up so badly that US hegemony will come to an end. If that happens, a lot of possibilities may open up in Europe, at least parts of it may still be salvageable. As grim as things are, you’ve now got nationalist parties with fairly good results even in hyper-cucked countries like Sweden and Germany, hopefully one can build on that.

    • Replies: @Hector_St_Clare
    @German_reader

    Speaking of that, what do you think about the elections in the Czech Republic? The most extreme ethnic nationalist got 11% of the vote (and this is in the country where even the mainstream parties like ANO, the Social Democrats and Communists are opposed to mass migration, so it's not like SPD was the only option for protest).

    I strongly don't want a 'white nationalist empire', partly because I distrust empires and partly because white people aren't a 'nation': Poles, Hungarians, Germans etc. are nations. That being said, a Democratic US Presidency in 2020 might actually be good for immigration-conservatives in Europe in some regards. The more immigrants move to the US, the less of them are going to try to get into Europe.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Seamus Padraig
    @German_reader


    At this point all I hope for is that the US establishment will screw up so badly that US hegemony will come to an end. If that happens, a lot of possibilities may open up in Europe, at least parts of it may still be salvageable.
     
    Sadly, you may be right. Are you all going to be able handle Russia and China alone?

    Replies: @German_reader

  24. @reiner Tor
    @German_reader


    megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire
     
    I don't think there's a lot of megalomania there. If the US had a white nationalist government, with the White Nationalist Party controlling both houses of Congress, while European countries had at least moderately nationalist governments, and NATO got expanded to include the Eastern Slavs (Russia and Ukraine - I know it sounds like fantasy, but if Romania and Hungary can be members of the same alliance, or if Serbia and Kosovo can simultaneously lead accession talks to the EU, then why not?), then you'd already have the "white empire", however you'd call it.

    Now of course it's unlikely that anybody even remotely "white nationalist" could win the US presidency (Trump is not one, as is obvious), much less control Congress, but probably nobody liked by any of us here (not even citizenists or whatever) will control any of the European governments (not the major West European countries, at any rate), so it's all moot. But if we're occasionally fantasizing about what our governments should do, why can't Spencer indulge in his own fantasies? They are not quite megalomaniacal, for example they don't contain plans for conquest.

    Replies: @German_reader, @reiner Tor

    Romania and Hungary can be members of the same alliance

    During WW2, under a lot of German pressure, Hungary declared war on the US in December 1941. There’s a (probably apocryphal) anecdote about the absurdity of its then situation. (But I think its present situation is not much better.)

    As the Hungarian ambassador was leaving DC, a US State Department official asked the Hungarian diplomat a few questions. (At the time Hungary was officially the Kingdom of Hungary, but there was no king, Admiral Horthy was the regent. He had been an admiral in the fleet of Austria-Hungary.)

    “You are a kingdom. So I guess you have a king?”
    “No, Admiral Horthy is the head of state.”
    “Oh, so you have a navy.”
    “No, we’re landlocked.”
    “Hmm. Then, how do you have any demands from the US, or territorial disputes with us?”
    “We don’t. We have territorial disputes with Romania.”
    “Then, why don’t you declare war on Romania?”
    “It’s impossible. Romania is our ally.”

  25. @reiner Tor
    Regarding Gyöngyösi, although it's difficult to know, but I think his boss, the party chairman Gábor Vona was the one who strongly suggested to him not to attend this conference. (Obviously if you asked them, both of them would deny it.)

    This was around the time Jobbik started its "cuteness campaign" (it involved things like posters with Vona posing with young girls or guys or families and cute dogs or cats, etc.), which initially only seemed like a cosmetic change to the party's rough far right radical image, but over time it marked the start of the party's strong leftward drift. They're still on the right, but not much to the right of Fidesz anymore.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Hector_St_Clare

    Reiner Tor,

    What’s Jobbik’s position on the economy?

    And for that matter what do you think of the Czech elections a week or two ago? I was actually really surprised Okamura did that well (he pretty much doubled his vote share in the last month or two), and the first exit polls had him at second place though he eventually dropped to fifth. I thought that the Social Democrats and Communists taking a relatively hard line against Muslim migration & quotas would help insulate them against election losses, but it didn’t.

  26. @German_reader
    @Pseudonymic Handle

    Yes, that's depressing...it's unfortunate that there's always historical baggage getting in the way of cooperation, and many nationalists are too narrow-minded to see the bigger picture. It's also more pc and more "respectable" to bash other Europeans than to focus on the dangers of non-European immigration.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare

    It’s not as though inter-European migration (and with apologies to your ethnicity, the migration of, uh, Germans into neighboring countries was a big part of that) hasn’t caused huge conflict in the past. It makes a lot of sense why Danes wouldn’t want to be swallowed up by Sweden, Poles by Russians, Slovaks by Hungarians, Czechs by Germans, etc..

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Hector_St_Clare

    There's some truth in your words (and I can see how German dominance is a problem for the smaller nations), but sorry, there's just no comparison. Let's just say the problems caused by Somalis, Afghans etc. are in a rather different category from what one's used to regarding other Europeans.
    And given present birthrates the possibilities for intra-European conflict are limited...no more Drang nach Osten (or vice versa). The same can't be said about relations between Europe and other parts of the world.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare

  27. @Art Deco
    @Diversity Heretic

    I think Richard Spencer would be better off building a career for himself (sell insurance, sell real estate, prepare tax returns, whatever) and building a family rather than engage in weird pseudo-politics. He's radioactive now. If a younger version of Richard Spencer is interested in political action, run for state legislature on a platform of cleaning up school curricula at all levels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Just Sayin', @Jim Bob Lassiter

    He’s ok with being radioactive in order to talk about and gradually normalize our views

    He is not radioactive because he truly does anything awful, he’s radioactive because you’re not allowed to talk about this stuff

  28. Regarding ‘more rule of law and due process’, I think our good host Anatoly Karlin has been overly-seduced by the friendly helpfulness of the mid-level British bureacrats he’s been meeting … he clearly hasn’t had a run in with the wealthy paedophiles with political connections, or the various kinds of legalistic horrors that are seen in Britain, in fact more often than on the Continent – Britain is the biggest per capita jailer in Western Europe, and has lots of strange laws of which to fall afoul, tho the abuse of ‘hate speech’ laws on the European Continent is nothing to boast about either.

    But the worst case of due process collapse is the USA, where judge-lawyer bribery, asset & property confiscation, & jailing of innocents, is the most out of control in the advanced world, tho USA legal horrors are well-hidden because the oligarchs of the US regime also own the dominant Anglo media, the CIA’s Google, the CIA’s Wikpedia, the fake USA ‘civil liberties’ groups etc … Just for perspective, with 2.3 million prisoners – 25% of the whole world’s entire prison population – the USA is, at this very minute, jailing about 1 out of every 45 of its working-age male citizens as you read this. And a lot of those folks – yes, even a lot of those black folks – are innocent of the crimes of which they were charged.

  29. @German_reader
    @reiner Tor


    If the US had a white nationalist government, with the White Nationalist Party controlling both houses of Congress
     
    Yes, but that's never going to happen. And frankly (and I know it'll probably be an unpopular position around here), I've pretty much written off the US and given up hope for any positive development there from our point of view. At this point all I hope for is that the US establishment will screw up so badly that US hegemony will come to an end. If that happens, a lot of possibilities may open up in Europe, at least parts of it may still be salvageable. As grim as things are, you've now got nationalist parties with fairly good results even in hyper-cucked countries like Sweden and Germany, hopefully one can build on that.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare, @Seamus Padraig

    Speaking of that, what do you think about the elections in the Czech Republic? The most extreme ethnic nationalist got 11% of the vote (and this is in the country where even the mainstream parties like ANO, the Social Democrats and Communists are opposed to mass migration, so it’s not like SPD was the only option for protest).

    I strongly don’t want a ‘white nationalist empire’, partly because I distrust empires and partly because white people aren’t a ‘nation’: Poles, Hungarians, Germans etc. are nations. That being said, a Democratic US Presidency in 2020 might actually be good for immigration-conservatives in Europe in some regards. The more immigrants move to the US, the less of them are going to try to get into Europe.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Hector_St_Clare


    That being said, a Democratic US Presidency in 2020 might actually be good for immigration-conservatives in Europe in some regards. The more immigrants move to the US, the less of them are going to try to get into Europe.
     
    I don't know, that strikes me as rather unlikely, for simple reasons of geography.
    But I guess if Trump really f***s up badly and starts a war with North Korea or Iran, the Democrats will win in 2020. Possibly even with some really horrible radical black identity candidate or something of the sort who will put the cultural revolution into overdrive. I'm not sure I should care about that anymore though, given how demented both "right" and "left" in the US mostly are.

    EDIT: Regarding the Czech election: I haven't followed it closely, but mostly positive impressions...the Czechs seem to be sensible people.

  30. @German_reader
    I can't agree about that, Orban may be flawed in many ways, but from my perspective in the German madhouse, his stance on the "refugee" invasion is what counts, and not only has he been a source of inspiration on that since the dark days of 2015, he's also been involved in practical measures for closing down the Balkans route. Richard Spencer by contrast is just some fool with a Twitter account whose claim to fame rests in being punched by Antifa, and who indulges megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire or whatever. The cancelling of his stupid conference is irrelevant imo, and it's well within the rights of the Hungarians to control the activities of foreigners within their country (even more so given that this nutcase Dugin was also invited).

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @hyperbola, @Diversity Heretic, @reiner Tor, @Just Sayin', @Cagey Beast

    >megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire or whatever

    It’s as much a white alliance of different nations as a white empire, not really megalomaniacal as much as a vehicle for thinking about the big problems we (all) face in the future, as a minority

  31. German_reader says:
    @Hector_St_Clare
    @German_reader

    Speaking of that, what do you think about the elections in the Czech Republic? The most extreme ethnic nationalist got 11% of the vote (and this is in the country where even the mainstream parties like ANO, the Social Democrats and Communists are opposed to mass migration, so it's not like SPD was the only option for protest).

    I strongly don't want a 'white nationalist empire', partly because I distrust empires and partly because white people aren't a 'nation': Poles, Hungarians, Germans etc. are nations. That being said, a Democratic US Presidency in 2020 might actually be good for immigration-conservatives in Europe in some regards. The more immigrants move to the US, the less of them are going to try to get into Europe.

    Replies: @German_reader

    That being said, a Democratic US Presidency in 2020 might actually be good for immigration-conservatives in Europe in some regards. The more immigrants move to the US, the less of them are going to try to get into Europe.

    I don’t know, that strikes me as rather unlikely, for simple reasons of geography.
    But I guess if Trump really f***s up badly and starts a war with North Korea or Iran, the Democrats will win in 2020. Possibly even with some really horrible radical black identity candidate or something of the sort who will put the cultural revolution into overdrive. I’m not sure I should care about that anymore though, given how demented both “right” and “left” in the US mostly are.

    EDIT: Regarding the Czech election: I haven’t followed it closely, but mostly positive impressions…the Czechs seem to be sensible people.

  32. German_reader says:
    @Hector_St_Clare
    @German_reader

    It's not as though inter-European migration (and with apologies to your ethnicity, the migration of, uh, Germans into neighboring countries was a big part of that) hasn't caused huge conflict in the past. It makes a lot of sense why Danes wouldn't want to be swallowed up by Sweden, Poles by Russians, Slovaks by Hungarians, Czechs by Germans, etc..

    Replies: @German_reader

    There’s some truth in your words (and I can see how German dominance is a problem for the smaller nations), but sorry, there’s just no comparison. Let’s just say the problems caused by Somalis, Afghans etc. are in a rather different category from what one’s used to regarding other Europeans.
    And given present birthrates the possibilities for intra-European conflict are limited…no more Drang nach Osten (or vice versa). The same can’t be said about relations between Europe and other parts of the world.

    • Replies: @Hector_St_Clare
    @German_reader

    I mean, one could argue that EU expansion is a kind of 'drive to the east' all by itself. The empires of today tend not to rely on war to accomplish their aims, but it doesn't make them any more benevolent or less imperial.

    I agree the problems posed by Somalis and Afghans *today* are more serious than the problems of inter-European migration, but I wouldn't downplay the importance of the latter. Historically, as I pointed out, a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration (the Schleswig-Holstein issue for example, or the Sudeten issue in Czechoslovakia). And today a lot of the dissatisfaction in places like Denmark and England has focused around immigration from poorer European countries. I was recently in England for about a week (up in Yorkshire, which is both historically Labour-leaning and strongly pro-Brexit) and made a point of trying to talk to lots of people there (on the train, at the bar, in one case during, uh, pillow talk) about their opinions about Brexit and immigration. Most people I talked to favoured Brexit (one 19-year old Russian waitress frankly she said she voted for Brexit because she loathes Germany and wants England to be friends with Russia instead), but the immigrant group they complained the most about was actually Romanians, not Pakistanis.

    Replies: @fnn, @fnn, @for-the-record, @German_reader

  33. Anonymous [AKA "Adolf Grenzstein"] says:
    @Pseudonymic Handle
    The inability to cooperate internationally is a structural problem of nationalists.
    It really doesn't matter if Orban kicked out some minor alt-right clowns who are famous in a tiny bubble. I would do the same if it hurt m country in any way.
    The inability of nationalist parties to work together in places like the European parliament and of populist governments to cooperate is far more serious.
    This difficulty exists because of a xenophobic instinct that is always present in nationalism, so it's something that will never go away.

    Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji, @German_reader, @Wency, @Anonymous, @Seamus Padraig

    You are totally wrong. The national socialistic Germany had very good relationship with other nationalistic countries and very good cooperation. In contrary: Rothschild’s Great Britain and Israel’s USA have blackmail relationship with many other countries (for instance with still occupied Germany), and they made most wars worldwide at least since appr. 1900.
    Btw: Israel is Rothschild’s Israel living of blackmaled money from Germany and the USA.

    • LOL: German_reader
  34. If Richard Spencer is an enemy of Hungary it’s because of his pan-White, Anglophone dreams for the rest of us. He’s expressed his dream of an English-speaking pan-White, globe spanning empire numerous times and likely hopes future Hungarians are as Magyar as Capt. Jean-Luc Picard of Starfleet is French.

    • Replies: @Hector_St_Clare
    @Cagey Beast

    This, +1000.

    Also Richard Spencer is a toxic guy and a foreign troublemaker who's genuinely a white supremacist, not just a "I want to preserve ethnic diversity and blue-eyed Scandie genes": his chatter about how white people are natural leaders, explorers, etc. pretty clearly demonstrates that much. He's also at this point a threat to civil order in the US, so Hungary made a good decision not to harbor or encourage him. If they want to go the ethnic nationalist route, their chances of having the US ignore them (which is really the best one can expect) is greatest if they don't harbor one of the most widely disliked American political activists.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Jaakko Raipala
    @Cagey Beast

    I was listening to Spencer rambling in some TRS podcast after being kicked out of Poland and all he had to say was contempt for Poland being too small for his purposes. The neo-Nazi accusation seems to miss the mark with him as Spencer seems to idolize just about any Big Dictator Man for being ruthless towards smaller nations in the pursuit of a bigger empire; ideology matters less than power hunger for him and somehow he is incredibly surprised and upset that these views make him an unwanted guest in small countries.

    I don't see any difference between some "white nationalist" cult inviting Richard Spencer to my country to inform me that we are too small and need to be absorbed by some larger white empire and between some radical Muslim preacher coming to tell us that we need to be converted and taken by the next caliphate. I even imagine the reaction to being denied entry would be the same - both would rant about a government controlled by Zionist Jews and refuse to do any self-reflection.

    Bonus derangement points for white nationalists who keep telling us that the white nationalist empire that should annex us all is Putin's Russia and that's another reason to see white nationalists as a security issue in Eastern Europe. Orbán undoubtedly views Spencer as a potential agent given that he seems to have money and resources to do international activism far beyond what you'd expect from an unemployable man. He also shows up in conferences with Dugin, another case of a man with no money or position somehow showing up all over the world with the resources to rent big venues, hire assistants and promote appearances in media.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  35. @AP
    Hungary's government doesn't want to associate itself and its common sense immigration policy with neo-Nazis or pseudo-Nazis. Seems reasonable.

    Replies: @AM, @Seamus Padraig

    Hungary’s government doesn’t want to associate itself and its common sense immigration policy with neo-Nazis or pseudo-Nazis. Seems reasonable.

    Hungary might have a reason or two (or 12) not want to be associated with people who think Nazi stuff is just another historical blip and people should lighten up.

    That’s just yet another fail of the Spencer crowd.

    • Agree: AP
  36. @German_reader
    @Hector_St_Clare

    There's some truth in your words (and I can see how German dominance is a problem for the smaller nations), but sorry, there's just no comparison. Let's just say the problems caused by Somalis, Afghans etc. are in a rather different category from what one's used to regarding other Europeans.
    And given present birthrates the possibilities for intra-European conflict are limited...no more Drang nach Osten (or vice versa). The same can't be said about relations between Europe and other parts of the world.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare

    I mean, one could argue that EU expansion is a kind of ‘drive to the east’ all by itself. The empires of today tend not to rely on war to accomplish their aims, but it doesn’t make them any more benevolent or less imperial.

    I agree the problems posed by Somalis and Afghans *today* are more serious than the problems of inter-European migration, but I wouldn’t downplay the importance of the latter. Historically, as I pointed out, a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration (the Schleswig-Holstein issue for example, or the Sudeten issue in Czechoslovakia). And today a lot of the dissatisfaction in places like Denmark and England has focused around immigration from poorer European countries. I was recently in England for about a week (up in Yorkshire, which is both historically Labour-leaning and strongly pro-Brexit) and made a point of trying to talk to lots of people there (on the train, at the bar, in one case during, uh, pillow talk) about their opinions about Brexit and immigration. Most people I talked to favoured Brexit (one 19-year old Russian waitress frankly she said she voted for Brexit because she loathes Germany and wants England to be friends with Russia instead), but the immigrant group they complained the most about was actually Romanians, not Pakistanis.

    • Replies: @fnn
    @Hector_St_Clare


    ...the immigrant group they complained the most about was actually Romanians, not Pakistanis.
     
    I'll bet it was Gypsies/Roma they were complaining about, not ethnic Romanians.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    , @fnn
    @Hector_St_Clare

    From an Englishman living in Romania:
    http://pvewood.blogspot.com/2016/03/romanias-attitude-to-emigrants-and.html#more


    No people in the world are kinder or more welcoming to foreigners than Romanians. The truth is that, as several have told me, they trust foreigners more than they trust one another, provided the foreigners are white. In the 1990s Romanian attitudes to non-whites were much the same as those of the British in the 1950s when Britain was almost entirely white. Now people are much more broad-minded but Romanians believe in a hierarchy of nations, with themselves fairly low down but above Greeks and Turks and a long way above Arabs.

    Romania's only non-white minority are the gypsies. The historian Richard Vinen has accurately said that they are the closest Eastern European equivalent to the underclass in developed economies. They are widely disliked and feared, at least south of the Carpathians. In Transylvania and the Banat they are much more accepted.

    At the last census, 3% of the population claimed to be gypsies, but gypsy is word with negative connotations and many think the real number is far higher. Neagu Djuvara thinks it's 10%. However many there are, though, they are a lot fewer than they were a few years ago, because many gypsies, fed up with being oppressed in Romania, headed off to Western Europe to be oppressed in greater comfort.

    Romanian cab drivers constantly complain that western Europeans think Romanian gypsies are Romanians when clearly they are not because they are gypsies. Romanians see nationality and ethnicity as the same thing.

    Romanians' views on race and homosexuality, especially among graduates in their twenties and thirties, are changing a lot. Nevertheless, attitudes here are still either refreshingly lacking in political correctness or, depending on your point of view, racist and homophobic.

    There's certainly a lot of downright racism even among the young. A survey of teenagers three years ago showed that three-quarters wouldn’t want homosexuals living next door, two-thirds wouldn’t want gypsies, three fifths wouldn’t want Muslims and a third wouldn’t want Jews. As Romania only has a few thousand Jews and Muslims and all homosexuals are firmly in the closet, in practice it is only gypsies that teenagers need worry about meeting in the lift in their Communist-era block of flats. The fact that one third don't mind gypsies living next door suggests young Romanians are more open-minded than their parents.
     

    Replies: @AP

    , @for-the-record
    @Hector_St_Clare

    a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration (the Schleswig-Holstein issue for example, or the Sudeten issue in Czechoslovakia)

    Regarding Sudetenland, I assume you are referring to the German migration that took place in the late 12th and 13th centuries (as part of the "Ostsiedlung")?

    , @German_reader
    @Hector_St_Clare


    Historically, as I pointed out, a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration
     
    Well yes, one can interpret it like that...of migration that had happened centuries earlier, in the high Middle ages. But the situation today is rather different. Germany has integrated millions of people from southern Europe, eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union without that much trouble (one of the reasons why I find American bragging about their melting pot ridiculous...it's hardly a unique achievement to integrate European immigrants into a European or European-descended society; by contrast the US has failed to come up with a solution to its traditional race problem, and may come undone by the primarily non-European immigration of recent decades) and with limited tensions...there is an enormous difference with what's going on now.
    As for Britain, they certainly had too much Eastern European immigration in recent years...but frankly, are you sure the "Romanians" mentioned to you aren't Gypsies?
  37. @Cagey Beast
    If Richard Spencer is an enemy of Hungary it's because of his pan-White, Anglophone dreams for the rest of us. He's expressed his dream of an English-speaking pan-White, globe spanning empire numerous times and likely hopes future Hungarians are as Magyar as Capt. Jean-Luc Picard of Starfleet is French.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare, @Jaakko Raipala

    This, +1000.

    Also Richard Spencer is a toxic guy and a foreign troublemaker who’s genuinely a white supremacist, not just a “I want to preserve ethnic diversity and blue-eyed Scandie genes”: his chatter about how white people are natural leaders, explorers, etc. pretty clearly demonstrates that much. He’s also at this point a threat to civil order in the US, so Hungary made a good decision not to harbor or encourage him. If they want to go the ethnic nationalist route, their chances of having the US ignore them (which is really the best one can expect) is greatest if they don’t harbor one of the most widely disliked American political activists.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Hector_St_Clare


    He’s also at this point a threat to civil order in the US
     
    That seems like a vast exagerration of his importance imo. The guy has a twitter account and a website, he isn't a real threat to anything.
    I can see where you're coming from with your criticism of him though...his writings certainly do have a strong "Whites are best" vibe.
    He also seems like a rather narcisstic personality to me. Maybe his privileged background (privileged like in from a wealthy family, going to an exclusive private school etc., not privileged in the sense of that "white privilege" nonsense) gave him the impression he's some sort of natural aristocrat and leader.
  38. @Hector_St_Clare
    @German_reader

    I mean, one could argue that EU expansion is a kind of 'drive to the east' all by itself. The empires of today tend not to rely on war to accomplish their aims, but it doesn't make them any more benevolent or less imperial.

    I agree the problems posed by Somalis and Afghans *today* are more serious than the problems of inter-European migration, but I wouldn't downplay the importance of the latter. Historically, as I pointed out, a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration (the Schleswig-Holstein issue for example, or the Sudeten issue in Czechoslovakia). And today a lot of the dissatisfaction in places like Denmark and England has focused around immigration from poorer European countries. I was recently in England for about a week (up in Yorkshire, which is both historically Labour-leaning and strongly pro-Brexit) and made a point of trying to talk to lots of people there (on the train, at the bar, in one case during, uh, pillow talk) about their opinions about Brexit and immigration. Most people I talked to favoured Brexit (one 19-year old Russian waitress frankly she said she voted for Brexit because she loathes Germany and wants England to be friends with Russia instead), but the immigrant group they complained the most about was actually Romanians, not Pakistanis.

    Replies: @fnn, @fnn, @for-the-record, @German_reader

    …the immigrant group they complained the most about was actually Romanians, not Pakistanis.

    I’ll bet it was Gypsies/Roma they were complaining about, not ethnic Romanians.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @fnn

    I'll second this, in England (and to varying extent in other Western European countries) Gypsies are identified with the country of which they hold citizenship (primarily Romania and Bulgaria), rather than being included in a separate category. It doesn't help that liberals keep trying to conflate the two. It is the same logic that leads to Somalis being labeled 'Swedish rapists', Maghrebis 'French Muslims', Pakis 'British jihadists', the anti-European EU 'Europe' etc.

    In any case, if my opinion counts for anything, I find that my interactions with actual Romanians and Bulgarians have been rather pleasant.

  39. @Hector_St_Clare
    @German_reader

    I mean, one could argue that EU expansion is a kind of 'drive to the east' all by itself. The empires of today tend not to rely on war to accomplish their aims, but it doesn't make them any more benevolent or less imperial.

    I agree the problems posed by Somalis and Afghans *today* are more serious than the problems of inter-European migration, but I wouldn't downplay the importance of the latter. Historically, as I pointed out, a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration (the Schleswig-Holstein issue for example, or the Sudeten issue in Czechoslovakia). And today a lot of the dissatisfaction in places like Denmark and England has focused around immigration from poorer European countries. I was recently in England for about a week (up in Yorkshire, which is both historically Labour-leaning and strongly pro-Brexit) and made a point of trying to talk to lots of people there (on the train, at the bar, in one case during, uh, pillow talk) about their opinions about Brexit and immigration. Most people I talked to favoured Brexit (one 19-year old Russian waitress frankly she said she voted for Brexit because she loathes Germany and wants England to be friends with Russia instead), but the immigrant group they complained the most about was actually Romanians, not Pakistanis.

    Replies: @fnn, @fnn, @for-the-record, @German_reader

    From an Englishman living in Romania:
    http://pvewood.blogspot.com/2016/03/romanias-attitude-to-emigrants-and.html#more

    No people in the world are kinder or more welcoming to foreigners than Romanians. The truth is that, as several have told me, they trust foreigners more than they trust one another, provided the foreigners are white. In the 1990s Romanian attitudes to non-whites were much the same as those of the British in the 1950s when Britain was almost entirely white. Now people are much more broad-minded but Romanians believe in a hierarchy of nations, with themselves fairly low down but above Greeks and Turks and a long way above Arabs.

    Romania’s only non-white minority are the gypsies. The historian Richard Vinen has accurately said that they are the closest Eastern European equivalent to the underclass in developed economies. They are widely disliked and feared, at least south of the Carpathians. In Transylvania and the Banat they are much more accepted.

    At the last census, 3% of the population claimed to be gypsies, but gypsy is word with negative connotations and many think the real number is far higher. Neagu Djuvara thinks it’s 10%. However many there are, though, they are a lot fewer than they were a few years ago, because many gypsies, fed up with being oppressed in Romania, headed off to Western Europe to be oppressed in greater comfort.

    Romanian cab drivers constantly complain that western Europeans think Romanian gypsies are Romanians when clearly they are not because they are gypsies. Romanians see nationality and ethnicity as the same thing.

    Romanians’ views on race and homosexuality, especially among graduates in their twenties and thirties, are changing a lot. Nevertheless, attitudes here are still either refreshingly lacking in political correctness or, depending on your point of view, racist and homophobic.

    There’s certainly a lot of downright racism even among the young. A survey of teenagers three years ago showed that three-quarters wouldn’t want homosexuals living next door, two-thirds wouldn’t want gypsies, three fifths wouldn’t want Muslims and a third wouldn’t want Jews. As Romania only has a few thousand Jews and Muslims and all homosexuals are firmly in the closet, in practice it is only gypsies that teenagers need worry about meeting in the lift in their Communist-era block of flats. The fact that one third don’t mind gypsies living next door suggests young Romanians are more open-minded than their parents.

    • Replies: @AP
    @fnn

    I could be wrong, but do Hungarians sometimes view Romanians as gypsy-like? Or is it a way of making fun of Romanians.

  40. @Hector_St_Clare
    @German_reader

    I mean, one could argue that EU expansion is a kind of 'drive to the east' all by itself. The empires of today tend not to rely on war to accomplish their aims, but it doesn't make them any more benevolent or less imperial.

    I agree the problems posed by Somalis and Afghans *today* are more serious than the problems of inter-European migration, but I wouldn't downplay the importance of the latter. Historically, as I pointed out, a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration (the Schleswig-Holstein issue for example, or the Sudeten issue in Czechoslovakia). And today a lot of the dissatisfaction in places like Denmark and England has focused around immigration from poorer European countries. I was recently in England for about a week (up in Yorkshire, which is both historically Labour-leaning and strongly pro-Brexit) and made a point of trying to talk to lots of people there (on the train, at the bar, in one case during, uh, pillow talk) about their opinions about Brexit and immigration. Most people I talked to favoured Brexit (one 19-year old Russian waitress frankly she said she voted for Brexit because she loathes Germany and wants England to be friends with Russia instead), but the immigrant group they complained the most about was actually Romanians, not Pakistanis.

    Replies: @fnn, @fnn, @for-the-record, @German_reader

    a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration (the Schleswig-Holstein issue for example, or the Sudeten issue in Czechoslovakia)

    Regarding Sudetenland, I assume you are referring to the German migration that took place in the late 12th and 13th centuries (as part of the “Ostsiedlung”)?

  41. @German_reader
    I can't agree about that, Orban may be flawed in many ways, but from my perspective in the German madhouse, his stance on the "refugee" invasion is what counts, and not only has he been a source of inspiration on that since the dark days of 2015, he's also been involved in practical measures for closing down the Balkans route. Richard Spencer by contrast is just some fool with a Twitter account whose claim to fame rests in being punched by Antifa, and who indulges megalomaniacal fantasies about some global white empire or whatever. The cancelling of his stupid conference is irrelevant imo, and it's well within the rights of the Hungarians to control the activities of foreigners within their country (even more so given that this nutcase Dugin was also invited).

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @hyperbola, @Diversity Heretic, @reiner Tor, @Just Sayin', @Cagey Beast

    I think Richard Spencer is doing a lot of good within the US but he seems to be consistently wrong about national identities and sentiments elsewhere in the White world.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Cagey Beast

    I don't know, has he achieved anything in the US? I have to admit, when he first came to my attention a few years ago, my impression of him wasn't totally unfavourable (even though even back then he did push some pretty strange stuff at Takimag), seemed like a new approach, a genuine spokesman for white interests without the Neonazi/KKK baggage of types like David Duke. But in recent years he seems to have gone off the rails.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  42. Frankly, it makes sense that Spencer’s brand of pan-European white nationalism would be toxic to Europeans that actually want to preserve their unique regional and ethnic identities. He reminds me of the silly afrocentric American black nationalists who think that Sub-Saharan Africans would welcome them as Kangz. Really, pan-racial nationalism is only a step removed from globalism and multiculturalism, in the sense that it wants unity across a wide swath of humanity as opposed to all of humanity.

    • Replies: @ussr andy
    @Selvar


    Frankly, it makes sense that Spencer’s brand of pan-European white nationalism would be toxic to Europeans that actually want to preserve their unique regional and ethnic identities.
     
    There was a video on Russia Insider about some uniate-vs-orthodox kerfuffle in Ukraine. It's my impression there's a lot of that going on in the more "diverse" and 3rd-worldish parts of Eastern Europe that used to change hands alot.

    To me as non-Slav this is tribal BS and positively quaint. I've about as much understanding for it as the whole caste stuff.

    I still think what Spencer stands for is un-European (the white identity being so obviously a product of America's beginnings as a biracial settler colony) and, whatsmore, I believe it's bad for Slavs.

    Replies: @ussr andy

  43. @Cagey Beast
    If Richard Spencer is an enemy of Hungary it's because of his pan-White, Anglophone dreams for the rest of us. He's expressed his dream of an English-speaking pan-White, globe spanning empire numerous times and likely hopes future Hungarians are as Magyar as Capt. Jean-Luc Picard of Starfleet is French.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare, @Jaakko Raipala

    I was listening to Spencer rambling in some TRS podcast after being kicked out of Poland and all he had to say was contempt for Poland being too small for his purposes. The neo-Nazi accusation seems to miss the mark with him as Spencer seems to idolize just about any Big Dictator Man for being ruthless towards smaller nations in the pursuit of a bigger empire; ideology matters less than power hunger for him and somehow he is incredibly surprised and upset that these views make him an unwanted guest in small countries.

    I don’t see any difference between some “white nationalist” cult inviting Richard Spencer to my country to inform me that we are too small and need to be absorbed by some larger white empire and between some radical Muslim preacher coming to tell us that we need to be converted and taken by the next caliphate. I even imagine the reaction to being denied entry would be the same – both would rant about a government controlled by Zionist Jews and refuse to do any self-reflection.

    Bonus derangement points for white nationalists who keep telling us that the white nationalist empire that should annex us all is Putin’s Russia and that’s another reason to see white nationalists as a security issue in Eastern Europe. Orbán undoubtedly views Spencer as a potential agent given that he seems to have money and resources to do international activism far beyond what you’d expect from an unemployable man. He also shows up in conferences with Dugin, another case of a man with no money or position somehow showing up all over the world with the resources to rent big venues, hire assistants and promote appearances in media.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Spencer and the Alt Right are already being pulled in a dozen directions by American friends and enemies; they shouldn't really try to make plans for the rest of us outside the USA. That being said, I think the more room they make for explicit White identity in America, the better for all of us elsewhere.

  44. Also Richard Spencer is a toxic guy and a foreign troublemaker who’s genuinely a white supremacist, not just a “I want to preserve ethnic diversity and blue-eyed Scandie genes”: his chatter about how white people are natural leaders, explorers, etc. pretty clearly demonstrates that much

    I always hear this but whites and northeast Asians really are objectively superior to other races. Even a total moderate like Derbyshire says as much. Churchill and Roosevelt were white supremacists. What should Spencer do, just deny reality to mollify people who are going to hate him anyway?

    I don’t see any difference between some “white nationalist” cult inviting Richard Spencer to my country to inform me that we are too small and need to be absorbed by some larger white empire

    I think if you were American you would relate better. The American national identity is just “white” so a lot of Americans just can’t relate to the ethnic identities in Europe which seem totally archaic to us.

    Spencer’s a schmuck but I understand him and I think he does more good than harm. Although at the end of the day he is really more of a self promoter than anything else and has no meaningful political significance.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    @Greasy William

    Yes. Americans are a profoundly un-European people, the present American domination of Europe is ruinous and Spencer and his kind, if they ended up in power in America, would just bring more ruin to Europe by trying to apply their American worldview in societies that they understand no better than they understand Arabia. If the continent survives this era, the American invasion and conquest of Europe in the world wars will be seen as an era of domination by an outside occupier as alien as the Arabs, the Turks and the Mongols.

    It's bizarre how these self-described "nationalists" have no self-reflection over their inability to understand national identities. If you're so ignorant of history that you have no framework in your mind to explain where European national identities came from and how they developed over history, how on earth do you expect to be taken seriously with your grand ambitions and predictions for the future?

  45. @Jaakko Raipala
    @Cagey Beast

    I was listening to Spencer rambling in some TRS podcast after being kicked out of Poland and all he had to say was contempt for Poland being too small for his purposes. The neo-Nazi accusation seems to miss the mark with him as Spencer seems to idolize just about any Big Dictator Man for being ruthless towards smaller nations in the pursuit of a bigger empire; ideology matters less than power hunger for him and somehow he is incredibly surprised and upset that these views make him an unwanted guest in small countries.

    I don't see any difference between some "white nationalist" cult inviting Richard Spencer to my country to inform me that we are too small and need to be absorbed by some larger white empire and between some radical Muslim preacher coming to tell us that we need to be converted and taken by the next caliphate. I even imagine the reaction to being denied entry would be the same - both would rant about a government controlled by Zionist Jews and refuse to do any self-reflection.

    Bonus derangement points for white nationalists who keep telling us that the white nationalist empire that should annex us all is Putin's Russia and that's another reason to see white nationalists as a security issue in Eastern Europe. Orbán undoubtedly views Spencer as a potential agent given that he seems to have money and resources to do international activism far beyond what you'd expect from an unemployable man. He also shows up in conferences with Dugin, another case of a man with no money or position somehow showing up all over the world with the resources to rent big venues, hire assistants and promote appearances in media.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    Spencer and the Alt Right are already being pulled in a dozen directions by American friends and enemies; they shouldn’t really try to make plans for the rest of us outside the USA. That being said, I think the more room they make for explicit White identity in America, the better for all of us elsewhere.

  46. Maybe ZOG is preferable after all? At least there tends to be more rule of law and due process there.

    This reminds me of one of those old jokes about the Soviet Union that I think Reagan himself told. It’s like the American who said to the Soviet citizen: “in my country I can stand on Pennsylvania Avenue and yell ‘the President is a thief!”. The Soviet says “I can do the same thing. I can stand in Red Square and yell ‘the American President is a thief!’ “.

    I’m sure it’s much safer to argue against the current Russian Federation and for ethnic Russian nationalism from a location far from Russian anti-hate laws but the same would be true for an Englishman arguing for Englishness in England rather than from Russia.

  47. @reiner Tor
    @hyperbola


    Frankly Richard Spencer looks more and more like “controlled opposition”
     
    He's genuine, quite obviously. His mother was threatened in Montana, and he himself was sucker-punched. Are you insinuating he's doing it for... money, or what?

    Replies: @laura r, @ben tillman

    richard is a circus pony show, he feeds MSM. he gives them what they want. he did call for the explusion of jew from the US. its on UTUBE. he said it would be peaceful. thanks richard, i feel better now. IMO, someones paying him. he has helped damage the nationalist movement & trump. hes bad news.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @laura r


    he did call for the explusion of jew from the US. its on UTUBE. he said it would be peaceful. thanks richard, i feel better now
     
    the media is full of people advocating unlimited mass immigration, full integration of schools and the PC cult which when combined inevitably leads to white children becoming a targeted minority in every school and if you know what that means in practice you know what they are actually advocating (whether they realize it or not) is a stealth genocide.
  48. @Greasy William

    Also Richard Spencer is a toxic guy and a foreign troublemaker who’s genuinely a white supremacist, not just a “I want to preserve ethnic diversity and blue-eyed Scandie genes”: his chatter about how white people are natural leaders, explorers, etc. pretty clearly demonstrates that much
     
    I always hear this but whites and northeast Asians really are objectively superior to other races. Even a total moderate like Derbyshire says as much. Churchill and Roosevelt were white supremacists. What should Spencer do, just deny reality to mollify people who are going to hate him anyway?

    I don’t see any difference between some “white nationalist” cult inviting Richard Spencer to my country to inform me that we are too small and need to be absorbed by some larger white empire
     
    I think if you were American you would relate better. The American national identity is just "white" so a lot of Americans just can't relate to the ethnic identities in Europe which seem totally archaic to us.

    Spencer's a schmuck but I understand him and I think he does more good than harm. Although at the end of the day he is really more of a self promoter than anything else and has no meaningful political significance.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala

    Yes. Americans are a profoundly un-European people, the present American domination of Europe is ruinous and Spencer and his kind, if they ended up in power in America, would just bring more ruin to Europe by trying to apply their American worldview in societies that they understand no better than they understand Arabia. If the continent survives this era, the American invasion and conquest of Europe in the world wars will be seen as an era of domination by an outside occupier as alien as the Arabs, the Turks and the Mongols.

    It’s bizarre how these self-described “nationalists” have no self-reflection over their inability to understand national identities. If you’re so ignorant of history that you have no framework in your mind to explain where European national identities came from and how they developed over history, how on earth do you expect to be taken seriously with your grand ambitions and predictions for the future?

  49. @fnn
    @Hector_St_Clare


    ...the immigrant group they complained the most about was actually Romanians, not Pakistanis.
     
    I'll bet it was Gypsies/Roma they were complaining about, not ethnic Romanians.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    I’ll second this, in England (and to varying extent in other Western European countries) Gypsies are identified with the country of which they hold citizenship (primarily Romania and Bulgaria), rather than being included in a separate category. It doesn’t help that liberals keep trying to conflate the two. It is the same logic that leads to Somalis being labeled ‘Swedish rapists’, Maghrebis ‘French Muslims’, Pakis ‘British jihadists’, the anti-European EU ‘Europe’ etc.

    In any case, if my opinion counts for anything, I find that my interactions with actual Romanians and Bulgarians have been rather pleasant.

  50. @Selvar
    Frankly, it makes sense that Spencer's brand of pan-European white nationalism would be toxic to Europeans that actually want to preserve their unique regional and ethnic identities. He reminds me of the silly afrocentric American black nationalists who think that Sub-Saharan Africans would welcome them as Kangz. Really, pan-racial nationalism is only a step removed from globalism and multiculturalism, in the sense that it wants unity across a wide swath of humanity as opposed to all of humanity.

    Replies: @ussr andy

    Frankly, it makes sense that Spencer’s brand of pan-European white nationalism would be toxic to Europeans that actually want to preserve their unique regional and ethnic identities.

    There was a video on Russia Insider about some uniate-vs-orthodox kerfuffle in Ukraine. It’s my impression there’s a lot of that going on in the more “diverse” and 3rd-worldish parts of Eastern Europe that used to change hands alot.

    To me as non-Slav this is tribal BS and positively quaint. I’ve about as much understanding for it as the whole caste stuff.

    I still think what Spencer stands for is un-European (the white identity being so obviously a product of America’s beginnings as a biracial settler colony) and, whatsmore, I believe it’s bad for Slavs.

    • Replies: @ussr andy
    @ussr andy

    Americans are not just trying to make Europeans "white." They're also Africanizing non-African non-whites with the hip-hop "culture." America tries to remake the world in her image - that of a multiracial settler colony.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @German_reader

  51. @ussr andy
    @Selvar


    Frankly, it makes sense that Spencer’s brand of pan-European white nationalism would be toxic to Europeans that actually want to preserve their unique regional and ethnic identities.
     
    There was a video on Russia Insider about some uniate-vs-orthodox kerfuffle in Ukraine. It's my impression there's a lot of that going on in the more "diverse" and 3rd-worldish parts of Eastern Europe that used to change hands alot.

    To me as non-Slav this is tribal BS and positively quaint. I've about as much understanding for it as the whole caste stuff.

    I still think what Spencer stands for is un-European (the white identity being so obviously a product of America's beginnings as a biracial settler colony) and, whatsmore, I believe it's bad for Slavs.

    Replies: @ussr andy

    Americans are not just trying to make Europeans “white.” They’re also Africanizing non-African non-whites with the hip-hop “culture.” America tries to remake the world in her image – that of a multiracial settler colony.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @ussr andy

    Yes exactly. It's the American model that's the problem right now. Having Spencer run around Europe as the Ebola monkey of Yankee-Judea is the last thing the dissident Right needs right now. The fact that he carries a mutated strain of Yankeedom just makes it worse.

    , @German_reader
    @ussr andy

    Yes, many Americans are incapable of understanding America isn't the world.
    Richard Spencer in a way is just the flip side of stupid US liberals who complain there aren't any blacks in Warsaw, or transfer US terms like "white nationalism/supremacy" to a European context. I'm rather tired of this US colonization of our modes of thought.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  52. @ussr andy
    @ussr andy

    Americans are not just trying to make Europeans "white." They're also Africanizing non-African non-whites with the hip-hop "culture." America tries to remake the world in her image - that of a multiracial settler colony.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @German_reader

    Yes exactly. It’s the American model that’s the problem right now. Having Spencer run around Europe as the Ebola monkey of Yankee-Judea is the last thing the dissident Right needs right now. The fact that he carries a mutated strain of Yankeedom just makes it worse.

  53. @fnn
    @Hector_St_Clare

    From an Englishman living in Romania:
    http://pvewood.blogspot.com/2016/03/romanias-attitude-to-emigrants-and.html#more


    No people in the world are kinder or more welcoming to foreigners than Romanians. The truth is that, as several have told me, they trust foreigners more than they trust one another, provided the foreigners are white. In the 1990s Romanian attitudes to non-whites were much the same as those of the British in the 1950s when Britain was almost entirely white. Now people are much more broad-minded but Romanians believe in a hierarchy of nations, with themselves fairly low down but above Greeks and Turks and a long way above Arabs.

    Romania's only non-white minority are the gypsies. The historian Richard Vinen has accurately said that they are the closest Eastern European equivalent to the underclass in developed economies. They are widely disliked and feared, at least south of the Carpathians. In Transylvania and the Banat they are much more accepted.

    At the last census, 3% of the population claimed to be gypsies, but gypsy is word with negative connotations and many think the real number is far higher. Neagu Djuvara thinks it's 10%. However many there are, though, they are a lot fewer than they were a few years ago, because many gypsies, fed up with being oppressed in Romania, headed off to Western Europe to be oppressed in greater comfort.

    Romanian cab drivers constantly complain that western Europeans think Romanian gypsies are Romanians when clearly they are not because they are gypsies. Romanians see nationality and ethnicity as the same thing.

    Romanians' views on race and homosexuality, especially among graduates in their twenties and thirties, are changing a lot. Nevertheless, attitudes here are still either refreshingly lacking in political correctness or, depending on your point of view, racist and homophobic.

    There's certainly a lot of downright racism even among the young. A survey of teenagers three years ago showed that three-quarters wouldn’t want homosexuals living next door, two-thirds wouldn’t want gypsies, three fifths wouldn’t want Muslims and a third wouldn’t want Jews. As Romania only has a few thousand Jews and Muslims and all homosexuals are firmly in the closet, in practice it is only gypsies that teenagers need worry about meeting in the lift in their Communist-era block of flats. The fact that one third don't mind gypsies living next door suggests young Romanians are more open-minded than their parents.
     

    Replies: @AP

    I could be wrong, but do Hungarians sometimes view Romanians as gypsy-like? Or is it a way of making fun of Romanians.

  54. German_reader says:
    @Hector_St_Clare
    @German_reader

    I mean, one could argue that EU expansion is a kind of 'drive to the east' all by itself. The empires of today tend not to rely on war to accomplish their aims, but it doesn't make them any more benevolent or less imperial.

    I agree the problems posed by Somalis and Afghans *today* are more serious than the problems of inter-European migration, but I wouldn't downplay the importance of the latter. Historically, as I pointed out, a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration (the Schleswig-Holstein issue for example, or the Sudeten issue in Czechoslovakia). And today a lot of the dissatisfaction in places like Denmark and England has focused around immigration from poorer European countries. I was recently in England for about a week (up in Yorkshire, which is both historically Labour-leaning and strongly pro-Brexit) and made a point of trying to talk to lots of people there (on the train, at the bar, in one case during, uh, pillow talk) about their opinions about Brexit and immigration. Most people I talked to favoured Brexit (one 19-year old Russian waitress frankly she said she voted for Brexit because she loathes Germany and wants England to be friends with Russia instead), but the immigrant group they complained the most about was actually Romanians, not Pakistanis.

    Replies: @fnn, @fnn, @for-the-record, @German_reader

    Historically, as I pointed out, a lot of territorial disputes between Germany and its neighbors were caused by German migration

    Well yes, one can interpret it like that…of migration that had happened centuries earlier, in the high Middle ages. But the situation today is rather different. Germany has integrated millions of people from southern Europe, eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union without that much trouble (one of the reasons why I find American bragging about their melting pot ridiculous…it’s hardly a unique achievement to integrate European immigrants into a European or European-descended society; by contrast the US has failed to come up with a solution to its traditional race problem, and may come undone by the primarily non-European immigration of recent decades) and with limited tensions…there is an enormous difference with what’s going on now.
    As for Britain, they certainly had too much Eastern European immigration in recent years…but frankly, are you sure the “Romanians” mentioned to you aren’t Gypsies?

  55. German_reader says:
    @Hector_St_Clare
    @Cagey Beast

    This, +1000.

    Also Richard Spencer is a toxic guy and a foreign troublemaker who's genuinely a white supremacist, not just a "I want to preserve ethnic diversity and blue-eyed Scandie genes": his chatter about how white people are natural leaders, explorers, etc. pretty clearly demonstrates that much. He's also at this point a threat to civil order in the US, so Hungary made a good decision not to harbor or encourage him. If they want to go the ethnic nationalist route, their chances of having the US ignore them (which is really the best one can expect) is greatest if they don't harbor one of the most widely disliked American political activists.

    Replies: @German_reader

    He’s also at this point a threat to civil order in the US

    That seems like a vast exagerration of his importance imo. The guy has a twitter account and a website, he isn’t a real threat to anything.
    I can see where you’re coming from with your criticism of him though…his writings certainly do have a strong “Whites are best” vibe.
    He also seems like a rather narcisstic personality to me. Maybe his privileged background (privileged like in from a wealthy family, going to an exclusive private school etc., not privileged in the sense of that “white privilege” nonsense) gave him the impression he’s some sort of natural aristocrat and leader.

  56. German_reader says:
    @Cagey Beast
    @German_reader

    I think Richard Spencer is doing a lot of good within the US but he seems to be consistently wrong about national identities and sentiments elsewhere in the White world.

    Replies: @German_reader

    I don’t know, has he achieved anything in the US? I have to admit, when he first came to my attention a few years ago, my impression of him wasn’t totally unfavourable (even though even back then he did push some pretty strange stuff at Takimag), seemed like a new approach, a genuine spokesman for white interests without the Neonazi/KKK baggage of types like David Duke. But in recent years he seems to have gone off the rails.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @German_reader

    He's done a lot of good bringing White identity politics into the public conversation. That's necessary now, whether people want it or not. We had a postwar liberal consensus in the West that couldn't or wouldn't correct itself even decades after it stopped working for us. In the US, Whites were expected to continue to be colour-blind 1950s or '60s liberals long after the boom ended and the social experiments had been road tested and found to be failures. Whites couldn't have continued to be good sports forever. They also couldn't be expected to be cheerleaders for Libertarianism when the market was producing such a squalid and shabby culture. Spencer has helped articulate and popularize these preexisting concerns and he's done a better job of it than most people.

  57. German_reader says:
    @ussr andy
    @ussr andy

    Americans are not just trying to make Europeans "white." They're also Africanizing non-African non-whites with the hip-hop "culture." America tries to remake the world in her image - that of a multiracial settler colony.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @German_reader

    Yes, many Americans are incapable of understanding America isn’t the world.
    Richard Spencer in a way is just the flip side of stupid US liberals who complain there aren’t any blacks in Warsaw, or transfer US terms like “white nationalism/supremacy” to a European context. I’m rather tired of this US colonization of our modes of thought.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @German_reader

    I remember wondering several years ago whether Spencer was some kind of CIA sponsored actor because his worldview was so much along the lines of the old school CIA. I don't think he's faking it though; I think he genuinely comes from that world and sees things from that tradition. In other words, Spencer is the kind of old school, WASP American who were hardly soul-mates to British Tories or French Gaullists back in the old days.

    Even before the era of neocons and Clinton/Obama interventionism, there were many points of friction between Americanism and the other ways of being western. Not surprisingly, those carry on with Spencer and the Alt Right.

  58. @German_reader
    @Cagey Beast

    I don't know, has he achieved anything in the US? I have to admit, when he first came to my attention a few years ago, my impression of him wasn't totally unfavourable (even though even back then he did push some pretty strange stuff at Takimag), seemed like a new approach, a genuine spokesman for white interests without the Neonazi/KKK baggage of types like David Duke. But in recent years he seems to have gone off the rails.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    He’s done a lot of good bringing White identity politics into the public conversation. That’s necessary now, whether people want it or not. We had a postwar liberal consensus in the West that couldn’t or wouldn’t correct itself even decades after it stopped working for us. In the US, Whites were expected to continue to be colour-blind 1950s or ’60s liberals long after the boom ended and the social experiments had been road tested and found to be failures. Whites couldn’t have continued to be good sports forever. They also couldn’t be expected to be cheerleaders for Libertarianism when the market was producing such a squalid and shabby culture. Spencer has helped articulate and popularize these preexisting concerns and he’s done a better job of it than most people.

  59. A few years before Spencer became famous I heard him on a podcast lamenting that Jeff Sessions was the main spokesman against immigration. I don’t recall the details but Spencer’s main problem with Sessions seemed to be his lack of hipness, particularly his Southern accent, which I believe Spencer laughed at.

    Looking into Spencer’s background it says he’s from Massachusetts but grew up in Dallas then lived in New York and North Carolina, then Montana. Now he’s in Virginia or somewhere near there. He finds his own country’s most rooted traditions and people cringeworthy because he himself has very little connection to them. With that in mind it is hardly surprising that he lacks understanding and sympathy for foreign, in this case European, nationalism.

    In this respect he is the opposite of Trump. Despite being the kind of stereotypical New Yorker most Americans are, at best, suspicious of, Trump was able to use his own authenticity and Americanness to connect to rooted Americans from other regions. A deracinated person with no real local identity of his own can’t intuitively understand how someone else feels about their own town, region, nation, or for that matter, their religion. The deracinated intellectual is left relying on books, movies, and abstract ideas. Those won’t do.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  60. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    There is a lot of misinformation about Spencer’s imperial desires in the comments here, specifically the misconception that he wants to mush everyone on the continent up. That’s just not true. He’s making a realistic assessment of how power works and how smaller nations would be better protected under a larger umbrella organization with pro-white/European leadership as opposed to that which we currently have. He annoys me too at times, but this petty infighting among mostly American and European peoples is generally unproductive given the problem we collectively face. Spencer, faults and all, is working in the interests of whites/Europeans; the current leadership in all our nations is not. There shouldn’t even be a dispute here regarding where the greater threat lies.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Anon

    The difference of opinion seen here between Americans and non-Americans on this topic long predates Spencer's trip to Hungary. Even without going back decades, I know the Stormfront types had done a good job of pissing off European right-wingers long before Spencer went to Hungary.

    In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone in Orban's office had a well developed prejudice against American Stormfronters and that helped him rubber stamp the expulsion order for Spencer. "You think being Hungarian is a quaint luxury left over from the last century? Enjoy your flight home".

  61. @German_reader
    @ussr andy

    Yes, many Americans are incapable of understanding America isn't the world.
    Richard Spencer in a way is just the flip side of stupid US liberals who complain there aren't any blacks in Warsaw, or transfer US terms like "white nationalism/supremacy" to a European context. I'm rather tired of this US colonization of our modes of thought.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    I remember wondering several years ago whether Spencer was some kind of CIA sponsored actor because his worldview was so much along the lines of the old school CIA. I don’t think he’s faking it though; I think he genuinely comes from that world and sees things from that tradition. In other words, Spencer is the kind of old school, WASP American who were hardly soul-mates to British Tories or French Gaullists back in the old days.

    Even before the era of neocons and Clinton/Obama interventionism, there were many points of friction between Americanism and the other ways of being western. Not surprisingly, those carry on with Spencer and the Alt Right.

  62. Anonymous [AKA "They call me Nightmaster"] says:

    Spencer makes it tough on himself because of his constant shilling for Russian imperialism, no doubt influenced by his propagandist wife. It’s no surprise that nations like Poland and Hungary want to keep him out. Russia is pretty much despised by all other countries in Eastern Europe, and I don’t blame them. Spencer doesn’t seem to get this.

    • Replies: @Hector_St_Clare
    @Anonymous

    Uh, no. Russia is despised by Poles and by the native population of the Baltics. That's about it. Public opinion towards Russia is quite favourable in Belarus and parts of the Balkans, and is about evenly split in the former Czechoslovakia. (Reiner Tor can speak better to Hungary but I think public opinion there is in a sort of mixed zone too).

    Replies: @AP

  63. Rubbish! You self-centered, narcissistic little American scene think geopolitics revolves around you. That governments in central Europe besieged by the EU, Muslims, Soros and still scared of Russia are “cucks” for not wanting to bother with some spoiled American frat boy playing intellectual with mommy’s money. The reason Hungary and Poland disposed of Little Richard and the self-satisfied Yale grad is because they can spot a low-level, poorly funded USG semi-color revolution type sideshow operation. American WN is very bad news. It can only contaminate the real fight for Europe.

  64. @AP
    Hungary's government doesn't want to associate itself and its common sense immigration policy with neo-Nazis or pseudo-Nazis. Seems reasonable.

    Replies: @AM, @Seamus Padraig

    Maybe Spencer & Co. should try Ukraine instead?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Seamus Padraig

    They are tied to Russia, so wouldn't work. Spencer somehow managed to find an unattractive Russian partner (those are very rare) who is an anti-Ukrainian Russian nationalist (less rare).

    Replies: @DFH, @Cagey Beast, @Anon, @Anatoly Karlin

  65. @Anon
    There is a lot of misinformation about Spencer's imperial desires in the comments here, specifically the misconception that he wants to mush everyone on the continent up. That's just not true. He's making a realistic assessment of how power works and how smaller nations would be better protected under a larger umbrella organization with pro-white/European leadership as opposed to that which we currently have. He annoys me too at times, but this petty infighting among mostly American and European peoples is generally unproductive given the problem we collectively face. Spencer, faults and all, is working in the interests of whites/Europeans; the current leadership in all our nations is not. There shouldn't even be a dispute here regarding where the greater threat lies.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    The difference of opinion seen here between Americans and non-Americans on this topic long predates Spencer’s trip to Hungary. Even without going back decades, I know the Stormfront types had done a good job of pissing off European right-wingers long before Spencer went to Hungary.

    In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone in Orban’s office had a well developed prejudice against American Stormfronters and that helped him rubber stamp the expulsion order for Spencer. “You think being Hungarian is a quaint luxury left over from the last century? Enjoy your flight home”.

  66. @Pseudonymic Handle
    The inability to cooperate internationally is a structural problem of nationalists.
    It really doesn't matter if Orban kicked out some minor alt-right clowns who are famous in a tiny bubble. I would do the same if it hurt m country in any way.
    The inability of nationalist parties to work together in places like the European parliament and of populist governments to cooperate is far more serious.
    This difficulty exists because of a xenophobic instinct that is always present in nationalism, so it's something that will never go away.

    Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji, @German_reader, @Wency, @Anonymous, @Seamus Padraig

    What a pile of crap. Nationalism does not necessarily entail xenophobia; it just means putting the national interest first. Historically and presently, nationalist régimes and movements have had little problem co-operating with one another, so long as their interests are aligned. If you want an extreme example, just consider the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis during WWII. Or, somewhat closer to home, the Operation Condor countries in S. America in seventies. (I assume everyone here would consider Pinochet, Gaultieri and Stroesser to be nationalists, right?)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Seamus Padraig

    German/Japanese relations were friendly because of geography.

    German/Italian relations were friendly because Mussolini was a fool who allowed the Germans to occupy the Alps in 1938. What sort of Italian "nationalist" would permit such a thing?

    Chile and Argentina had very bad relations in the 1970s and 80s, and nearly went to war with each other on more than one occasion.

    , @Anonymous
    @Seamus Padraig

    The Axis powers were xenophobic. That was the whole basis of the alliance - they believed the alliance was beneficial for their own individual xenophobic designs.

  67. @German_reader
    @reiner Tor


    If the US had a white nationalist government, with the White Nationalist Party controlling both houses of Congress
     
    Yes, but that's never going to happen. And frankly (and I know it'll probably be an unpopular position around here), I've pretty much written off the US and given up hope for any positive development there from our point of view. At this point all I hope for is that the US establishment will screw up so badly that US hegemony will come to an end. If that happens, a lot of possibilities may open up in Europe, at least parts of it may still be salvageable. As grim as things are, you've now got nationalist parties with fairly good results even in hyper-cucked countries like Sweden and Germany, hopefully one can build on that.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare, @Seamus Padraig

    At this point all I hope for is that the US establishment will screw up so badly that US hegemony will come to an end. If that happens, a lot of possibilities may open up in Europe, at least parts of it may still be salvageable.

    Sadly, you may be right. Are you all going to be able handle Russia and China alone?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Seamus Padraig


    Are you all going to be able handle Russia and China alone?
     
    If there's the political will, credible deterrence against Russia shouldn't be a problem for European countries, it's just a matter of getting the necessary spending for armaments/reintroducing conscription. China is on the other side of the globe and unlikely to intervene in Europe for the foreseeable future.
    The problem of course is European decadence and an unwillingness to think seriously about creating independent security structures and make the sacrifices necessary for that.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

  68. Even without going back decades, I know the Stormfront types had done a good job of pissing off European right-wingers long before Spencer went to Hungary.

    I’ll admit I haven’t read Stormfront in 3 or 4 years but last time I was there the Jobbik Hungarians, Golden Dawn Greeks and German neo Nazis types on SF got along great with the Americans. The divide on Stormfront wasn’t between Euros and Americans, it was between the pro Muslim and anti Muslim wings. The Hungarians, Greeks and Germans on Stormfront were really pro Muslim, even more than the Americans. That may have changed in the last several years, I don’t know.

    On a tangentially related note, one interesting thing about German neo Nazis that I would not have guessed is they are really racist against blacks. They hate blacks more than any other group I’ve ever seen. What’s this all about? Are there even any blacks in Germany? Hitler was against anti black racism.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Greasy William

    I think Americans have generally come to feel more solidarity with Europeans in recent years as we all get hit by wave after wave of Muslim terrorism of pretty much the same kind. An attitude of American exceptionalism was the norm until relatively recently and it pissed a lot of other "far right" people off.

    I mention it here only to point out that someone on the Orban/Jobbik spectrum in the Hungarian government could have happily sent Americans like Spencer packing for his own reasons, not just to appease "ZOG". Like I said, I probably would have if I hadn't read Spencer's stuff already.

    , @German_reader
    @Greasy William


    Are there even any blacks in Germany? Hitler was against anti black racism.
     
    I don't think that's correct...obviously there weren't many blacks in Germany in the 1930s/1940s, and there wasn't a systematic policy against them as far as I know (though some did end up in concentration camps and were murdered there). Hitler clearly regarded blacks as inferior though and wanted them all removed from Germany. Supposedly German troops (especially Waffen-SS) also massacred lots of French colonial troops (Senegalese etc.) during the 1940 campaign; iirc there was a book about this some years ago ("Hitler's African victims" or something like that).
    So the Nazis were anti-black...but in the context of 1940s Europe that was an afterthought. Maybe it would have become more prominent if they had acquired colonies in Africa again.
    As for what German neo-Nazis think...well, these are fringe people. If you've encountered pro-Muslim ones, they're certainly not representative of the more general spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years (no surprise...).

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Anonymous
    @Greasy William

    Hitler was not against anti-black racism, he just didn't like the hypocrisy of Americans who criticised his Jewish 'Jim Crow' policies.

  69. @Greasy William

    Even without going back decades, I know the Stormfront types had done a good job of pissing off European right-wingers long before Spencer went to Hungary.
     
    I'll admit I haven't read Stormfront in 3 or 4 years but last time I was there the Jobbik Hungarians, Golden Dawn Greeks and German neo Nazis types on SF got along great with the Americans. The divide on Stormfront wasn't between Euros and Americans, it was between the pro Muslim and anti Muslim wings. The Hungarians, Greeks and Germans on Stormfront were really pro Muslim, even more than the Americans. That may have changed in the last several years, I don't know.

    On a tangentially related note, one interesting thing about German neo Nazis that I would not have guessed is they are really racist against blacks. They hate blacks more than any other group I've ever seen. What's this all about? Are there even any blacks in Germany? Hitler was against anti black racism.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @German_reader, @Anonymous

    I think Americans have generally come to feel more solidarity with Europeans in recent years as we all get hit by wave after wave of Muslim terrorism of pretty much the same kind. An attitude of American exceptionalism was the norm until relatively recently and it pissed a lot of other “far right” people off.

    I mention it here only to point out that someone on the Orban/Jobbik spectrum in the Hungarian government could have happily sent Americans like Spencer packing for his own reasons, not just to appease “ZOG”. Like I said, I probably would have if I hadn’t read Spencer’s stuff already.

  70. Personally, I have little use for Spencer. He’s definitely a showboat and an excellent self-promoter, but what good has he actually accomplished for the movement? If he’s not a government plant or controlled opposition, then he must be an extreme egomaniac. Shades of George Lincoln Rockwell! Frankly, the anonymous dudes over at 4chan have been much more effective at red-pilling people, largely because they actually have a sense of humor and don’t take themselves so damn seriously. If, on the other hand, Spencer wants to be an intellectual, then he should study something vital and write books like Kevin MacDonald.

    One way or another, I hoped he learned from the Charlottesville debacle. We don’t need to go around constantly presenting the enemy with easy targets. For now, we’re much effective on the underground, with the digital samizdat. The system never even saw Trump’s election coming!

    • Replies: @republic
    @Seamus Padraig

    a few days ago I first encounter the name of Jez Turner, a British nationalist. He could also be a controlled Opposition. Maybe some British reader could clarify this subject.

  71. One way or another, I hoped he learned from the Charlottesville debacle.

    Charlottesville was a win for us. A blue city tried to shut down an alt-right march and completely failed to do so. A land whale shitlib was killed in the battle while the alt right forces took no losses. Several Antifa have been arrested since the rally for assaults that they committed that were caught on video. Charlottesville also marked the first time that members of the Left were forced to denounce Antifa.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Greasy William

    That fat middle-aged women feel perfectly safe going on these 'Nazi hunts' is a tribute to the forbearance of nationalists. If they were a fraction as violent as the left claim, there would be scores of dead leftists at each of these confrontations.

    In fact, there wouldn't be any confrontations. The militant left would just leave nationalists alone.

  72. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Greasy William
    I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. The only cases I can see of European nationalists fighting are Jobbik against Romanian nationalists and Golden Dawn against Erdogan. Marine Le Pen has good relations with anti immigration parties all over Europe as does Farage.

    Bannon and Gorka are trying to expand Breitbart into the UK and EU also.

    Replies: @Anon

    > Jobbik against Romanian nationalists

    What Romanian nationalists? The country has a German as president, and his party is run by a guy named, lol, Orban. The other party nominated as prime minister a Turk. The outgoing prime minister is one Czolosz. The third party is currently ran by a guy names Barna, who replaced another one named Levente.

    In case you didn’t get it, these are all Hungarian names.

  73. @Seamus Padraig
    Personally, I have little use for Spencer. He's definitely a showboat and an excellent self-promoter, but what good has he actually accomplished for the movement? If he's not a government plant or controlled opposition, then he must be an extreme egomaniac. Shades of George Lincoln Rockwell! Frankly, the anonymous dudes over at 4chan have been much more effective at red-pilling people, largely because they actually have a sense of humor and don't take themselves so damn seriously. If, on the other hand, Spencer wants to be an intellectual, then he should study something vital and write books like Kevin MacDonald.

    One way or another, I hoped he learned from the Charlottesville debacle. We don't need to go around constantly presenting the enemy with easy targets. For now, we're much effective on the underground, with the digital samizdat. The system never even saw Trump's election coming!

    Replies: @republic

    a few days ago I first encounter the name of Jez Turner, a British nationalist. He could also be a controlled Opposition. Maybe some British reader could clarify this subject.

  74. Charlottesville also marked the first time that members of the Left were forced to denounce Antifa.

    And Mitt Romney endorsed Antifa in a tweet. That should be helpful if decides to run for Senate next year.

  75. The Hungarian government has limited political capital.

    They made the right choice, to use their limited resources to fight for the well being of their own people by defending Hungarian national identity, demographic stability and Christian heritage against globalism and cultural Marxism.

    Allowing the Radical Traditionalist / New Right International to make Hungary their home base would have conflicted with Orban’s own Hungarian nationalist / European Identitarian / Christian social conservative agenda.

    Márton Gyöngyösi thinks Hungary is a Turkish, not a European, nation, and that Hungary’s destiny is to be the puppet of Turkey. Thus, he gratuitously sides with Turkey against Cyprus and Armenia. Unlike the Fidesz government, which puts high priority on working with Hungary’s neighbors (Slovakia, Romania etc.) to resist cultural Marxism and globalism, a Jobbik government would antagonize every nation which has territory which was part of the Kingdom of Hungary before WW1.

    Alexander Dugin thinks Russia is an Asian, not a European, nation, and that Russia’s destiny is to be a puppet of China.

    Arktos media published the disgusting S&M porn of Jewish porn personality Rachel Haywire and the anti-European screeds of Persian supremacist Jason Reza Jorjani.

    Richard Spencer has described himself as “conflicted” about his own American identity. What kind of nationalist is “conflicted” about his own authentic identity? I hope Spencer becomes as unabashedly proud of his American identity as Viktor Orban is of his Hungarian identity.

    The French New Right embraces all sorts of truly depraved ideas, including “man-animal hybrid chimeras”.

    Julius Evola’s psuedo-Hinduism is the New Age of the right. It has no real connection to the authentic puritanical warrior paganism of the ancient Romans and Germans. Authentic European paganism arguably had more in common with Christianity than with the new-fangled imaginings of Evola.

    As a man who loves his own nation, recognizes the place of his nation within the European family of nations, and holds fast to the morality given to us by the one true God, Viktor Orban is far to the right of the Radical Traditionalists.

    The truth is, Radical Traditionalists are the fascists of our time. Fascists are and always have been radical centrists who borrow ideas from both the left and the right, in pursuit of greatness. As the left becomes progressively more depraved and deranged, fascism, the shadow of the left, also becomes more depraved and deranged – including enthusiasm for the Satanism of Aleister Crowley!

    It is my hope that the various individuals involved in the Radical Traditionalist / New Right movement have their eyes opened, move right, and adopt the nationalist conservative ideals found in the speeches of men like Viktor Orban and Pat Buchanan.

  76. Sounds to me like typical Eastern European dislike of Russians. The radical Russian nationalist Dungin was attending so therefore the whole event was considered suspect by the Hungarian authorities. If there weren’t any Russians attending there probably wouldn’t have been any problem.

  77. German_reader says:
    @Seamus Padraig
    @German_reader


    At this point all I hope for is that the US establishment will screw up so badly that US hegemony will come to an end. If that happens, a lot of possibilities may open up in Europe, at least parts of it may still be salvageable.
     
    Sadly, you may be right. Are you all going to be able handle Russia and China alone?

    Replies: @German_reader

    Are you all going to be able handle Russia and China alone?

    If there’s the political will, credible deterrence against Russia shouldn’t be a problem for European countries, it’s just a matter of getting the necessary spending for armaments/reintroducing conscription. China is on the other side of the globe and unlikely to intervene in Europe for the foreseeable future.
    The problem of course is European decadence and an unwillingness to think seriously about creating independent security structures and make the sacrifices necessary for that.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @German_reader

    Credible deterrence shouldn’t be that expensive, even. And perhaps more effective than disincentives for agression would be incentives for cooperation. At the end of the day, I think the Russian government really just wants to do business without sacrificing sovereignty and security. If Germany had an independent foreign policy, it could have come to an understanding with Russia beneficial to both. But that would have made the US more or less irrelevant in Europe.

    Replies: @German_reader

  78. German_reader says:
    @Greasy William

    Even without going back decades, I know the Stormfront types had done a good job of pissing off European right-wingers long before Spencer went to Hungary.
     
    I'll admit I haven't read Stormfront in 3 or 4 years but last time I was there the Jobbik Hungarians, Golden Dawn Greeks and German neo Nazis types on SF got along great with the Americans. The divide on Stormfront wasn't between Euros and Americans, it was between the pro Muslim and anti Muslim wings. The Hungarians, Greeks and Germans on Stormfront were really pro Muslim, even more than the Americans. That may have changed in the last several years, I don't know.

    On a tangentially related note, one interesting thing about German neo Nazis that I would not have guessed is they are really racist against blacks. They hate blacks more than any other group I've ever seen. What's this all about? Are there even any blacks in Germany? Hitler was against anti black racism.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @German_reader, @Anonymous

    Are there even any blacks in Germany? Hitler was against anti black racism.

    I don’t think that’s correct…obviously there weren’t many blacks in Germany in the 1930s/1940s, and there wasn’t a systematic policy against them as far as I know (though some did end up in concentration camps and were murdered there). Hitler clearly regarded blacks as inferior though and wanted them all removed from Germany. Supposedly German troops (especially Waffen-SS) also massacred lots of French colonial troops (Senegalese etc.) during the 1940 campaign; iirc there was a book about this some years ago (“Hitler’s African victims” or something like that).
    So the Nazis were anti-black…but in the context of 1940s Europe that was an afterthought. Maybe it would have become more prominent if they had acquired colonies in Africa again.
    As for what German neo-Nazis think…well, these are fringe people. If you’ve encountered pro-Muslim ones, they’re certainly not representative of the more general spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years (no surprise…).

    • Replies: @Anon
    @German_reader

    spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years

    There's definitely an element though within that spectrum that tends to overhype the Islamic Republic and Hezbollah to the point of shilling, maybe that's what he was referring to.

    Replies: @German_reader, @DFH

  79. If you’ve encountered pro-Muslim ones, they’re certainly not representative of the more general spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years (no surprise…

    I haven’t been keeping up, but as recently as 2014, when I stopped following WN message boards, German neo Nazis were extremely pro muslim. On the Al Quds day marches in German cities their was massive neo Nazi turnout along with the Leftists and the Muslims themselves. And of course the way German neo Nazis worshiped Ahmadinejad is well known. Right wing Jews in Germany that I’ve spoken with have told me that German neo Nazis and Muslims are very close and get along well.

    I’m talking about 1488 skinhead types here, not AfD voters. In fact, I think they had a neo nazi party that they supported although I forget the name.

    I don’t speak German so the only German nationalists I will have read are those who are inclined to spend time online on English speaking message boards talking to knucklehead American Russophiles, so they may not be representative of all German neo Nazis.

    Hitler clearly regarded blacks as inferior though and wanted them all removed from Germany.

    Churchill felt the exact same way about blacks. But German neo Nazis, at least the ones I’ve seen on Stormfront, the now defunct Skadi forum or ThePhora, regularly say outrageously hateful things about blacks which Hitler would certainly have not approved of. I don’t believe Hitler ever said anything hateful about blacks.

    I have read elsewhere that among other Western Europeans, Germans are regarded as being the most hostile to blacks.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Greasy William


    In fact, I think they had a neo nazi party that they supported although I forget the name.
     
    That was probably the NPD (Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands) which is indeed pretty neo-Nazi. It's also fairly irrelevant nowadays.
    And yes, some neo-Nazi types did think about some sort of alliance with Islamists for a while iirc, out of their anti-Jewish/anti-US obsession. But I don't think much came of it, in the end the two movements are hardly compatible.

    I have read elsewhere that among other Western Europeans, Germans are regarded as being the most hostile to blacks.
     
    I don't know, I somewhat doubt that (at least for West Germans), but hard to tell.
    As for Hitler, I'm not that motivated to research the subject, but I recall having read a passage from Mein Kampf, in which he claimed that France was rapidly negrifying, and from context that was clearly negative (I suppose this was connected in some way to the use of black troops by the French during their occupation of the Ruhr in 1923, which was seen as especially humiliating by German nationalists).
    , @Anonymous
    @Greasy William

    You need to distinguish between old style German nationalists--who speak of Berlin as a 'central German' city--and the newer kind, who focus on Afro/Asian immigration. The former have no quarrel with Muslims.

  80. German_reader says:
    @Greasy William

    If you’ve encountered pro-Muslim ones, they’re certainly not representative of the more general spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years (no surprise…
     
    I haven't been keeping up, but as recently as 2014, when I stopped following WN message boards, German neo Nazis were extremely pro muslim. On the Al Quds day marches in German cities their was massive neo Nazi turnout along with the Leftists and the Muslims themselves. And of course the way German neo Nazis worshiped Ahmadinejad is well known. Right wing Jews in Germany that I've spoken with have told me that German neo Nazis and Muslims are very close and get along well.

    I'm talking about 1488 skinhead types here, not AfD voters. In fact, I think they had a neo nazi party that they supported although I forget the name.

    I don't speak German so the only German nationalists I will have read are those who are inclined to spend time online on English speaking message boards talking to knucklehead American Russophiles, so they may not be representative of all German neo Nazis.

    Hitler clearly regarded blacks as inferior though and wanted them all removed from Germany.
     
    Churchill felt the exact same way about blacks. But German neo Nazis, at least the ones I've seen on Stormfront, the now defunct Skadi forum or ThePhora, regularly say outrageously hateful things about blacks which Hitler would certainly have not approved of. I don't believe Hitler ever said anything hateful about blacks.

    I have read elsewhere that among other Western Europeans, Germans are regarded as being the most hostile to blacks.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Anonymous

    In fact, I think they had a neo nazi party that they supported although I forget the name.

    That was probably the NPD (Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands) which is indeed pretty neo-Nazi. It’s also fairly irrelevant nowadays.
    And yes, some neo-Nazi types did think about some sort of alliance with Islamists for a while iirc, out of their anti-Jewish/anti-US obsession. But I don’t think much came of it, in the end the two movements are hardly compatible.

    I have read elsewhere that among other Western Europeans, Germans are regarded as being the most hostile to blacks.

    I don’t know, I somewhat doubt that (at least for West Germans), but hard to tell.
    As for Hitler, I’m not that motivated to research the subject, but I recall having read a passage from Mein Kampf, in which he claimed that France was rapidly negrifying, and from context that was clearly negative (I suppose this was connected in some way to the use of black troops by the French during their occupation of the Ruhr in 1923, which was seen as especially humiliating by German nationalists).

  81. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Seamus Padraig
    @Pseudonymic Handle

    What a pile of crap. Nationalism does not necessarily entail xenophobia; it just means putting the national interest first. Historically and presently, nationalist régimes and movements have had little problem co-operating with one another, so long as their interests are aligned. If you want an extreme example, just consider the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis during WWII. Or, somewhat closer to home, the Operation Condor countries in S. America in seventies. (I assume everyone here would consider Pinochet, Gaultieri and Stroesser to be nationalists, right?)

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    German/Japanese relations were friendly because of geography.

    German/Italian relations were friendly because Mussolini was a fool who allowed the Germans to occupy the Alps in 1938. What sort of Italian “nationalist” would permit such a thing?

    Chile and Argentina had very bad relations in the 1970s and 80s, and nearly went to war with each other on more than one occasion.

  82. @Greasy William

    Even without going back decades, I know the Stormfront types had done a good job of pissing off European right-wingers long before Spencer went to Hungary.
     
    I'll admit I haven't read Stormfront in 3 or 4 years but last time I was there the Jobbik Hungarians, Golden Dawn Greeks and German neo Nazis types on SF got along great with the Americans. The divide on Stormfront wasn't between Euros and Americans, it was between the pro Muslim and anti Muslim wings. The Hungarians, Greeks and Germans on Stormfront were really pro Muslim, even more than the Americans. That may have changed in the last several years, I don't know.

    On a tangentially related note, one interesting thing about German neo Nazis that I would not have guessed is they are really racist against blacks. They hate blacks more than any other group I've ever seen. What's this all about? Are there even any blacks in Germany? Hitler was against anti black racism.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @German_reader, @Anonymous

    Hitler was not against anti-black racism, he just didn’t like the hypocrisy of Americans who criticised his Jewish ‘Jim Crow’ policies.

  83. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Greasy William

    One way or another, I hoped he learned from the Charlottesville debacle.
     
    Charlottesville was a win for us. A blue city tried to shut down an alt-right march and completely failed to do so. A land whale shitlib was killed in the battle while the alt right forces took no losses. Several Antifa have been arrested since the rally for assaults that they committed that were caught on video. Charlottesville also marked the first time that members of the Left were forced to denounce Antifa.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    That fat middle-aged women feel perfectly safe going on these ‘Nazi hunts’ is a tribute to the forbearance of nationalists. If they were a fraction as violent as the left claim, there would be scores of dead leftists at each of these confrontations.

    In fact, there wouldn’t be any confrontations. The militant left would just leave nationalists alone.

  84. @Greasy William

    If you’ve encountered pro-Muslim ones, they’re certainly not representative of the more general spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years (no surprise…
     
    I haven't been keeping up, but as recently as 2014, when I stopped following WN message boards, German neo Nazis were extremely pro muslim. On the Al Quds day marches in German cities their was massive neo Nazi turnout along with the Leftists and the Muslims themselves. And of course the way German neo Nazis worshiped Ahmadinejad is well known. Right wing Jews in Germany that I've spoken with have told me that German neo Nazis and Muslims are very close and get along well.

    I'm talking about 1488 skinhead types here, not AfD voters. In fact, I think they had a neo nazi party that they supported although I forget the name.

    I don't speak German so the only German nationalists I will have read are those who are inclined to spend time online on English speaking message boards talking to knucklehead American Russophiles, so they may not be representative of all German neo Nazis.

    Hitler clearly regarded blacks as inferior though and wanted them all removed from Germany.
     
    Churchill felt the exact same way about blacks. But German neo Nazis, at least the ones I've seen on Stormfront, the now defunct Skadi forum or ThePhora, regularly say outrageously hateful things about blacks which Hitler would certainly have not approved of. I don't believe Hitler ever said anything hateful about blacks.

    I have read elsewhere that among other Western Europeans, Germans are regarded as being the most hostile to blacks.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Anonymous

    You need to distinguish between old style German nationalists–who speak of Berlin as a ‘central German’ city–and the newer kind, who focus on Afro/Asian immigration. The former have no quarrel with Muslims.

  85. @Seamus Padraig
    @Pseudonymic Handle

    What a pile of crap. Nationalism does not necessarily entail xenophobia; it just means putting the national interest first. Historically and presently, nationalist régimes and movements have had little problem co-operating with one another, so long as their interests are aligned. If you want an extreme example, just consider the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis during WWII. Or, somewhat closer to home, the Operation Condor countries in S. America in seventies. (I assume everyone here would consider Pinochet, Gaultieri and Stroesser to be nationalists, right?)

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    The Axis powers were xenophobic. That was the whole basis of the alliance – they believed the alliance was beneficial for their own individual xenophobic designs.

  86. @Seamus Padraig
    @AP

    Maybe Spencer & Co. should try Ukraine instead?

    Replies: @AP

    They are tied to Russia, so wouldn’t work. Spencer somehow managed to find an unattractive Russian partner (those are very rare) who is an anti-Ukrainian Russian nationalist (less rare).

    • Disagree: Dan Hayes, Cagey Beast
    • Replies: @DFH
    @AP

    Something is very off about Spencer's wife.

    Replies: @Matra

    , @Cagey Beast
    @AP

    I like her and follow her on Twitter. I think Spencer lucked out with her. Consider the girls from cucky, normie, megachurch Republican families; "progressives" chicks and the kind of money-hungry Slavic nightclub chicks he could have ended up with. Anyway, that's probably enough speculation about someone else's wife, don't you think?

    Replies: @AP

    , @Anon
    @AP

    She certainly wouldn't qualify as a Russian nationalist the way Anatoly or any other Russian nationalists define it. Her "Russianness" always struck me as very shallow: Putin worship and vague sovok nostalgia in attempt to "trigger" Western liberals on Twitter, another American-based diaspora desperate to put on some identity.

    Replies: @DFH, @Anatoly Karlin

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @AP

    Nina Byzantina isn't a Russian nationalist, she is a Soviet-Eurasianist who considers HBD to be "autism" and celebrates when actual Russian nationalists get in legal trouble - that is, very much sins of commission, as opposed to just omission (I do sometimes idly wonder how she gets on with Spencer, considering that HBD is at the core of the Alt Right).

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Mao Cheng Ji, @Verymuchalive, @AP

  87. @AP
    @Seamus Padraig

    They are tied to Russia, so wouldn't work. Spencer somehow managed to find an unattractive Russian partner (those are very rare) who is an anti-Ukrainian Russian nationalist (less rare).

    Replies: @DFH, @Cagey Beast, @Anon, @Anatoly Karlin

    Something is very off about Spencer’s wife.

    • Replies: @Matra
    @DFH

    The weekend Spencer was in jail in Hungary and after he was released she never mentioned it on Twitter. She just kept on rolling with the usual Russia/Ukraine/Putin politics. I figured it was because Orban is friendly towards Putin. Priorities. Also, she never linked to Spencer tweets or articles - he linked to her - as if she was keeping some distance. Maybe that's changed - I haven't looked in a while - but there's something odd about the pair of them.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  88. @Anonymous
    Spencer makes it tough on himself because of his constant shilling for Russian imperialism, no doubt influenced by his propagandist wife. It's no surprise that nations like Poland and Hungary want to keep him out. Russia is pretty much despised by all other countries in Eastern Europe, and I don't blame them. Spencer doesn't seem to get this.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare

    Uh, no. Russia is despised by Poles and by the native population of the Baltics. That’s about it. Public opinion towards Russia is quite favourable in Belarus and parts of the Balkans, and is about evenly split in the former Czechoslovakia. (Reiner Tor can speak better to Hungary but I think public opinion there is in a sort of mixed zone too).

    • Replies: @AP
    @Hector_St_Clare

    All the countries in non-Balkans Eastern Europe view Russia more negatively than positively, just some (Poland, Ukraine, Baltics) more so than others (Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary):

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/08/16/publics-worldwide-unfavorable-toward-putin-russia/

    In Hungary, 48% viewed Russia unfavorably and 39% favorably.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare

  89. @AP
    @Seamus Padraig

    They are tied to Russia, so wouldn't work. Spencer somehow managed to find an unattractive Russian partner (those are very rare) who is an anti-Ukrainian Russian nationalist (less rare).

    Replies: @DFH, @Cagey Beast, @Anon, @Anatoly Karlin

    I like her and follow her on Twitter. I think Spencer lucked out with her. Consider the girls from cucky, normie, megachurch Republican families; “progressives” chicks and the kind of money-hungry Slavic nightclub chicks he could have ended up with. Anyway, that’s probably enough speculation about someone else’s wife, don’t you think?

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @AP
    @Cagey Beast

    While ok by Western standards, probably 80% if not more of Russian women are more attractive than she is. As in the case of New York's mayor, it makes one wonder about the guy who chose her...


    Anyway, that’s probably enough speculation about someone else’s wife, don’t you think?
     
    Given that she chose to make herself a very public figure (otherwise any negative comments would be completely unacceptable) such a discussion are not inappropriate. But yes, that's enough about her.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Greasy William

  90. @DFH
    @AP

    Something is very off about Spencer's wife.

    Replies: @Matra

    The weekend Spencer was in jail in Hungary and after he was released she never mentioned it on Twitter. She just kept on rolling with the usual Russia/Ukraine/Putin politics. I figured it was because Orban is friendly towards Putin. Priorities. Also, she never linked to Spencer tweets or articles – he linked to her – as if she was keeping some distance. Maybe that’s changed – I haven’t looked in a while – but there’s something odd about the pair of them.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Matra

    .... but there’s something odd about the pair of them.

    My guess is that either she or both of them are Replicants. My guess is she's hiding up there in Montana and making a living creating holographic memories for other Replicants. I saw a documentary on this stuff recently. There's a lot of it going on.

  91. @Matra
    @DFH

    The weekend Spencer was in jail in Hungary and after he was released she never mentioned it on Twitter. She just kept on rolling with the usual Russia/Ukraine/Putin politics. I figured it was because Orban is friendly towards Putin. Priorities. Also, she never linked to Spencer tweets or articles - he linked to her - as if she was keeping some distance. Maybe that's changed - I haven't looked in a while - but there's something odd about the pair of them.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    …. but there’s something odd about the pair of them.

    My guess is that either she or both of them are Replicants. My guess is she’s hiding up there in Montana and making a living creating holographic memories for other Replicants. I saw a documentary on this stuff recently. There’s a lot of it going on.

  92. Anyway, just to reiterate my one point on the topic at hand:

    Reality: These BASED regimes using the authoritarian power at their disposal to demonstratively crack down on racists, nationalists, and sundry enemies of ZOG to prove their “moderate” credentials to… ZOG.

    Maybe ZOG is preferable after all? At least there tends to be more rule of law and due process there.

    I think it’s quite possible the patriotic Hungarian who found the Spencer problem in his in-basket decided a “Wide Pride Worldwide” American wasn’t particularly welcome even by his own standards and decided to go with the flow.

  93. @Cagey Beast
    @AP

    I like her and follow her on Twitter. I think Spencer lucked out with her. Consider the girls from cucky, normie, megachurch Republican families; "progressives" chicks and the kind of money-hungry Slavic nightclub chicks he could have ended up with. Anyway, that's probably enough speculation about someone else's wife, don't you think?

    Replies: @AP

    While ok by Western standards, probably 80% if not more of Russian women are more attractive than she is. As in the case of New York’s mayor, it makes one wonder about the guy who chose her…

    Anyway, that’s probably enough speculation about someone else’s wife, don’t you think?

    Given that she chose to make herself a very public figure (otherwise any negative comments would be completely unacceptable) such a discussion are not inappropriate. But yes, that’s enough about her.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @AP

    The web is not like television, the people on your screen can hear you when you say shitty things about them and their spouses. Why don't you show some class and conduct yourself accordingly?

    Replies: @AP

    , @Greasy William
    @AP


    While ok by Western standards, probably 80% if not more of Russian women are more attractive than she is.
     
    Of non fat, non inbred, non deformed Russian women, Mrs. Spencer is unquestionably less attractive than 95% of ethnic Russian women and probably more like 99%.

    Compared to non fat, non inbred, non deformed, Western women, she is less attractive than 90% minimum and probably closer to 95%

    While she is not ugly, she is plain in homely way with crazy eyes, similar to American feminist shrew Amanda Marcotte.

    edit: Would not bang.

  94. @Hector_St_Clare
    @Anonymous

    Uh, no. Russia is despised by Poles and by the native population of the Baltics. That's about it. Public opinion towards Russia is quite favourable in Belarus and parts of the Balkans, and is about evenly split in the former Czechoslovakia. (Reiner Tor can speak better to Hungary but I think public opinion there is in a sort of mixed zone too).

    Replies: @AP

    All the countries in non-Balkans Eastern Europe view Russia more negatively than positively, just some (Poland, Ukraine, Baltics) more so than others (Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary):

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/08/16/publics-worldwide-unfavorable-toward-putin-russia/

    In Hungary, 48% viewed Russia unfavorably and 39% favorably.

    • Replies: @Hector_St_Clare
    @AP

    AP,

    I'd consider a 50/40 split to be "mixed", as I said. And the last poll I saw in Slovakia put the two-way split on Russia to be exactly 50:50 (they were the most pro-Russian outside Belarus and the Balkans).

    The Pew study from earlier this year on social attitudes in eastern Europe wasn't primarily about politics, but it also painted a more complex picture than you indicate. In essence, the overall picture of eastern Europeans was that they tended to feel more favourably towards the west than towards Russia, but they weren't overall that favourable towards either one, and they generally also thought it was a good thing that Russia served as a sort of counterweight to the west.

  95. @AP
    @Cagey Beast

    While ok by Western standards, probably 80% if not more of Russian women are more attractive than she is. As in the case of New York's mayor, it makes one wonder about the guy who chose her...


    Anyway, that’s probably enough speculation about someone else’s wife, don’t you think?
     
    Given that she chose to make herself a very public figure (otherwise any negative comments would be completely unacceptable) such a discussion are not inappropriate. But yes, that's enough about her.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Greasy William

    The web is not like television, the people on your screen can hear you when you say shitty things about them and their spouses. Why don’t you show some class and conduct yourself accordingly?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Cagey Beast

    So you have never made negative comments about female public figures, such as Hilary Clinton, Angela Merkel, or Michelle Obama, on the internet? If so, do you lack "class?"

    Spencer's wife, whom I didn't even name, was actually publicly mocking Merkel's appearance. No class?

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  96. @Cagey Beast
    @AP

    The web is not like television, the people on your screen can hear you when you say shitty things about them and their spouses. Why don't you show some class and conduct yourself accordingly?

    Replies: @AP

    So you have never made negative comments about female public figures, such as Hilary Clinton, Angela Merkel, or Michelle Obama, on the internet? If so, do you lack “class?”

    Spencer’s wife, whom I didn’t even name, was actually publicly mocking Merkel’s appearance. No class?

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @AP

    Again, the web is not like television. Each website, Twitter account etc. has a relative handful of the same people who read and follow it. Do you remember about a year ago when the topic of JavaScript and the Brave browser came up here in the comments and Brendan Eich himself chimed in?

    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation. You are not just yelling at a fictional person on your big screen TV right now.

    Replies: @AP, @Anon

  97. @AP
    @Cagey Beast

    So you have never made negative comments about female public figures, such as Hilary Clinton, Angela Merkel, or Michelle Obama, on the internet? If so, do you lack "class?"

    Spencer's wife, whom I didn't even name, was actually publicly mocking Merkel's appearance. No class?

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    Again, the web is not like television. Each website, Twitter account etc. has a relative handful of the same people who read and follow it. Do you remember about a year ago when the topic of JavaScript and the Brave browser came up here in the comments and Brendan Eich himself chimed in?

    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation. You are not just yelling at a fictional person on your big screen TV right now.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Cagey Beast


    Do you remember about a year ago when the topic of JavaScript and the Brave browser came up here in the comments and Brendan Eich himself chimed in?
     
    No, I missed that.

    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation. You are not just yelling at a fictional person on your big screen TV right now.
     
    I don't follow Spencer on twitter.

    I made a comment, without naming names, about the physical appearance of a public person who herself has posted negative things about others public people's physical appearance. I claimed that she is unattractive, further clarified as compared to most other Russian women (among the most beautiful ones in the world), but okay by (modern) Western standards. Something which probably many people would agree with.

    I notice you didn't complain when I mentioned the New York's mayor's wife's appearance?

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    , @Anon
    @Cagey Beast


    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation.
     
    Whoah, is CB Spencer? If he wants to chime in in his own or his wife's defense*, why not? If he just wants to pose as a victim, why should anyone care?

    *I think AP is from an old aristocratic family, no? Sr. Spencer is probably welcome to demand the satisfaction due one gentleman from another, I should think.


    I don’t care about or like the mayor of New York but I do like what I see of Spencer and his wife online.
     This, dear friends, is the demon Hypocrisy. Or at least, if it is a sincere belief that it is okay to insult people on condition one does not "like" them, it is a flawed belief.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  98. @Cagey Beast
    @AP

    Again, the web is not like television. Each website, Twitter account etc. has a relative handful of the same people who read and follow it. Do you remember about a year ago when the topic of JavaScript and the Brave browser came up here in the comments and Brendan Eich himself chimed in?

    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation. You are not just yelling at a fictional person on your big screen TV right now.

    Replies: @AP, @Anon

    Do you remember about a year ago when the topic of JavaScript and the Brave browser came up here in the comments and Brendan Eich himself chimed in?

    No, I missed that.

    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation. You are not just yelling at a fictional person on your big screen TV right now.

    I don’t follow Spencer on twitter.

    I made a comment, without naming names, about the physical appearance of a public person who herself has posted negative things about others public people’s physical appearance. I claimed that she is unattractive, further clarified as compared to most other Russian women (among the most beautiful ones in the world), but okay by (modern) Western standards. Something which probably many people would agree with.

    I notice you didn’t complain when I mentioned the New York’s mayor’s wife’s appearance?

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @AP

    I notice you didn’t complain when I mentioned the New York’s mayor’s wife’s appearance?

    Two reasons:

    - I don't care about or like the mayor of New York but I do like what I see of Spencer and his wife online.

    - The mayor of NYc and his wife are not part of the extended online social network that Unz, Spencer, Vdare, etc are.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  99. @AP
    @Cagey Beast


    Do you remember about a year ago when the topic of JavaScript and the Brave browser came up here in the comments and Brendan Eich himself chimed in?
     
    No, I missed that.

    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation. You are not just yelling at a fictional person on your big screen TV right now.
     
    I don't follow Spencer on twitter.

    I made a comment, without naming names, about the physical appearance of a public person who herself has posted negative things about others public people's physical appearance. I claimed that she is unattractive, further clarified as compared to most other Russian women (among the most beautiful ones in the world), but okay by (modern) Western standards. Something which probably many people would agree with.

    I notice you didn't complain when I mentioned the New York's mayor's wife's appearance?

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    I notice you didn’t complain when I mentioned the New York’s mayor’s wife’s appearance?

    Two reasons:

    – I don’t care about or like the mayor of New York but I do like what I see of Spencer and his wife online.

    – The mayor of NYc and his wife are not part of the extended online social network that Unz, Spencer, Vdare, etc are.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Cagey Beast


    - The mayor of NYc and his wife are not part of the extended online social network that Unz, Spencer, Vdare, etc are.
     
    I doubt either Spencer or his wife are going to be too broken up by what the commetariat here thinks of her looks.
  100. @AP
    @Cagey Beast

    While ok by Western standards, probably 80% if not more of Russian women are more attractive than she is. As in the case of New York's mayor, it makes one wonder about the guy who chose her...


    Anyway, that’s probably enough speculation about someone else’s wife, don’t you think?
     
    Given that she chose to make herself a very public figure (otherwise any negative comments would be completely unacceptable) such a discussion are not inappropriate. But yes, that's enough about her.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Greasy William

    While ok by Western standards, probably 80% if not more of Russian women are more attractive than she is.

    Of non fat, non inbred, non deformed Russian women, Mrs. Spencer is unquestionably less attractive than 95% of ethnic Russian women and probably more like 99%.

    Compared to non fat, non inbred, non deformed, Western women, she is less attractive than 90% minimum and probably closer to 95%

    While she is not ugly, she is plain in homely way with crazy eyes, similar to American feminist shrew Amanda Marcotte.

    edit: Would not bang.

  101. @Cagey Beast
    @AP

    I notice you didn’t complain when I mentioned the New York’s mayor’s wife’s appearance?

    Two reasons:

    - I don't care about or like the mayor of New York but I do like what I see of Spencer and his wife online.

    - The mayor of NYc and his wife are not part of the extended online social network that Unz, Spencer, Vdare, etc are.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    – The mayor of NYc and his wife are not part of the extended online social network that Unz, Spencer, Vdare, etc are.

    I doubt either Spencer or his wife are going to be too broken up by what the commetariat here thinks of her looks.

  102. @German_reader
    @Seamus Padraig


    Are you all going to be able handle Russia and China alone?
     
    If there's the political will, credible deterrence against Russia shouldn't be a problem for European countries, it's just a matter of getting the necessary spending for armaments/reintroducing conscription. China is on the other side of the globe and unlikely to intervene in Europe for the foreseeable future.
    The problem of course is European decadence and an unwillingness to think seriously about creating independent security structures and make the sacrifices necessary for that.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    Credible deterrence shouldn’t be that expensive, even. And perhaps more effective than disincentives for agression would be incentives for cooperation. At the end of the day, I think the Russian government really just wants to do business without sacrificing sovereignty and security. If Germany had an independent foreign policy, it could have come to an understanding with Russia beneficial to both. But that would have made the US more or less irrelevant in Europe.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @The Big Red Scary

    Maybe. But I suppose the Poles would get paranoid about a repeat of the Polish partitions, Molotov-Rippentropp etc. And the German political class is so worthless and incompetent (except at wrecking Germany), nothing like this can be expected for the foreseeable future anyway.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

  103. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Cagey Beast
    @AP

    Again, the web is not like television. Each website, Twitter account etc. has a relative handful of the same people who read and follow it. Do you remember about a year ago when the topic of JavaScript and the Brave browser came up here in the comments and Brendan Eich himself chimed in?

    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation. You are not just yelling at a fictional person on your big screen TV right now.

    Replies: @AP, @Anon

    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation.

    Whoah, is CB Spencer? If he wants to chime in in his own or his wife’s defense*, why not? If he just wants to pose as a victim, why should anyone care?

    *I think AP is from an old aristocratic family, no? Sr. Spencer is probably welcome to demand the satisfaction due one gentleman from another, I should think.

    I don’t care about or like the mayor of New York but I do like what I see of Spencer and his wife online.

    This, dear friends, is the demon Hypocrisy. Or at least, if it is a sincere belief that it is okay to insult people on condition one does not “like” them, it is a flawed belief.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Anon

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Egh9mW5y4

    Replies: @Greasy William

  104. @The Big Red Scary
    @German_reader

    Credible deterrence shouldn’t be that expensive, even. And perhaps more effective than disincentives for agression would be incentives for cooperation. At the end of the day, I think the Russian government really just wants to do business without sacrificing sovereignty and security. If Germany had an independent foreign policy, it could have come to an understanding with Russia beneficial to both. But that would have made the US more or less irrelevant in Europe.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Maybe. But I suppose the Poles would get paranoid about a repeat of the Polish partitions, Molotov-Rippentropp etc. And the German political class is so worthless and incompetent (except at wrecking Germany), nothing like this can be expected for the foreseeable future anyway.

    • Agree: melanf
    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @German_reader

    Germany, Poland, Russia, and many other neighboring countries, have sound historical reasons to be paranoid. A balance of confidence-building institutions (mostly economic) and defensive deterrents are the only way to resolve this dilemma. I agree that the solution is unlikely to come from the German political class (the Russian government has been trying for years to come to some kind of understanding, and has been roundly rejected), but if one is optimistic, one can imagine a partial solution coming out of the German industrialists. Politics that is bad for local business and serves foreign interests can only last for so long. Ultimately political power has to have a source, and it is rather unclear to me on what source current German political power is based.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @German_reader

  105. @AP
    @Seamus Padraig

    They are tied to Russia, so wouldn't work. Spencer somehow managed to find an unattractive Russian partner (those are very rare) who is an anti-Ukrainian Russian nationalist (less rare).

    Replies: @DFH, @Cagey Beast, @Anon, @Anatoly Karlin

    She certainly wouldn’t qualify as a Russian nationalist the way Anatoly or any other Russian nationalists define it. Her “Russianness” always struck me as very shallow: Putin worship and vague sovok nostalgia in attempt to “trigger” Western liberals on Twitter, another American-based diaspora desperate to put on some identity.

    • Replies: @DFH
    @Anon

    She's a Georgian not a Russian, so it would be odd if she was a (in the strict sense) Russian nationalist

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Anon

    This is an accurate description. Though she is very good at this, probably the best on Anglo Twitter.

  106. @German_reader
    @Greasy William


    Are there even any blacks in Germany? Hitler was against anti black racism.
     
    I don't think that's correct...obviously there weren't many blacks in Germany in the 1930s/1940s, and there wasn't a systematic policy against them as far as I know (though some did end up in concentration camps and were murdered there). Hitler clearly regarded blacks as inferior though and wanted them all removed from Germany. Supposedly German troops (especially Waffen-SS) also massacred lots of French colonial troops (Senegalese etc.) during the 1940 campaign; iirc there was a book about this some years ago ("Hitler's African victims" or something like that).
    So the Nazis were anti-black...but in the context of 1940s Europe that was an afterthought. Maybe it would have become more prominent if they had acquired colonies in Africa again.
    As for what German neo-Nazis think...well, these are fringe people. If you've encountered pro-Muslim ones, they're certainly not representative of the more general spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years (no surprise...).

    Replies: @Anon

    spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years

    There’s definitely an element though within that spectrum that tends to overhype the Islamic Republic and Hezbollah to the point of shilling, maybe that’s what he was referring to.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Anon


    There’s definitely an element though within that spectrum that tends to overhype the Islamic Republic and Hezbollah to the point of shilling
     
    Not in my experience, in fact I've seen something along those lines more among American paleoconservatives like Scott Mcconnell who are opposed to neoconservatism. Most German right-wingers (apart from some Neonazi types...who are irrelevant) don't care about the intricacies of Mideast politics, they just don't want further "enrichment" from that region.
    , @DFH
    @Anon

    What reason would a European nationalist have to be opposed to Hezbollah?

  107. German_reader says:
    @Anon
    @German_reader

    spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years

    There's definitely an element though within that spectrum that tends to overhype the Islamic Republic and Hezbollah to the point of shilling, maybe that's what he was referring to.

    Replies: @German_reader, @DFH

    There’s definitely an element though within that spectrum that tends to overhype the Islamic Republic and Hezbollah to the point of shilling

    Not in my experience, in fact I’ve seen something along those lines more among American paleoconservatives like Scott Mcconnell who are opposed to neoconservatism. Most German right-wingers (apart from some Neonazi types…who are irrelevant) don’t care about the intricacies of Mideast politics, they just don’t want further “enrichment” from that region.

  108. @Anon
    @Cagey Beast


    Spencer has already tweeted a link to this conversation.
     
    Whoah, is CB Spencer? If he wants to chime in in his own or his wife's defense*, why not? If he just wants to pose as a victim, why should anyone care?

    *I think AP is from an old aristocratic family, no? Sr. Spencer is probably welcome to demand the satisfaction due one gentleman from another, I should think.


    I don’t care about or like the mayor of New York but I do like what I see of Spencer and his wife online.
     This, dear friends, is the demon Hypocrisy. Or at least, if it is a sincere belief that it is okay to insult people on condition one does not "like" them, it is a flawed belief.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Cagey Beast


    Most German right-wingers (apart from some Neonazi types…who are irrelevant)
     
    When I say "German Nationalist", I mean "German neo Nazi". The types who post on Stormfront and used to post on Skadi before it shut down. And the ones on SF loooooooooove not just Iranians, but Turks as well.

    I definitely agree that American Paleocons are the worst. Neo Nazis have at least some good qualities, whereas Paleocons have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  109. @Cagey Beast
    @Anon

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Egh9mW5y4

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Most German right-wingers (apart from some Neonazi types…who are irrelevant)

    When I say “German Nationalist”, I mean “German neo Nazi”. The types who post on Stormfront and used to post on Skadi before it shut down. And the ones on SF loooooooooove not just Iranians, but Turks as well.

    I definitely agree that American Paleocons are the worst. Neo Nazis have at least some good qualities, whereas Paleocons have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Greasy William

    ... the now defunct Skadi forum or ThePhora,

    I was active on the Phora long ago. Do you remember Stirpes.net? I quite liked that site too. Those are the kind of people who would have put Spencer on the next plane out of Budapest and they'd have been right to do it.

  110. @Anon
    @AP

    She certainly wouldn't qualify as a Russian nationalist the way Anatoly or any other Russian nationalists define it. Her "Russianness" always struck me as very shallow: Putin worship and vague sovok nostalgia in attempt to "trigger" Western liberals on Twitter, another American-based diaspora desperate to put on some identity.

    Replies: @DFH, @Anatoly Karlin

    She’s a Georgian not a Russian, so it would be odd if she was a (in the strict sense) Russian nationalist

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @DFH

    She is half-Georgian, half-Russian.

  111. @Anon
    @German_reader

    spectrum of right-wingers, nationalists etc. who have become extremely anti-Islam in recent years

    There's definitely an element though within that spectrum that tends to overhype the Islamic Republic and Hezbollah to the point of shilling, maybe that's what he was referring to.

    Replies: @German_reader, @DFH

    What reason would a European nationalist have to be opposed to Hezbollah?

  112. @Greasy William
    @Cagey Beast


    Most German right-wingers (apart from some Neonazi types…who are irrelevant)
     
    When I say "German Nationalist", I mean "German neo Nazi". The types who post on Stormfront and used to post on Skadi before it shut down. And the ones on SF loooooooooove not just Iranians, but Turks as well.

    I definitely agree that American Paleocons are the worst. Neo Nazis have at least some good qualities, whereas Paleocons have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    … the now defunct Skadi forum or ThePhora,

    I was active on the Phora long ago. Do you remember Stirpes.net? I quite liked that site too. Those are the kind of people who would have put Spencer on the next plane out of Budapest and they’d have been right to do it.

  113. OT:
    I just listened to this talk by Vladimir Pozner I found while looking for an English version of his recent interview with Julian Assange. I enjoyed it:

    Vladimir Pozner on US-RUSSIA relations
    http://pozneronline.ru/2017/10/19611/

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Cagey Beast

    Cagey Beast:

    I used to listen to Pozner on short wave when he was warbling the Soviet line on Radio Moscow.

    He's a real slick article. Very articulate but untrustworthy. I didn't trust him then and I don't trust him now.

    Replies: @Anon

  114. @German_reader
    @The Big Red Scary

    Maybe. But I suppose the Poles would get paranoid about a repeat of the Polish partitions, Molotov-Rippentropp etc. And the German political class is so worthless and incompetent (except at wrecking Germany), nothing like this can be expected for the foreseeable future anyway.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    Germany, Poland, Russia, and many other neighboring countries, have sound historical reasons to be paranoid. A balance of confidence-building institutions (mostly economic) and defensive deterrents are the only way to resolve this dilemma. I agree that the solution is unlikely to come from the German political class (the Russian government has been trying for years to come to some kind of understanding, and has been roundly rejected), but if one is optimistic, one can imagine a partial solution coming out of the German industrialists. Politics that is bad for local business and serves foreign interests can only last for so long. Ultimately political power has to have a source, and it is rather unclear to me on what source current German political power is based.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    @The Big Red Scary

    Isn't that obvious? The power of the German political class comes from the United States that conquered the country 70 years ago. If the Americans suddenly decided to pull out of Europe and leave it without the security superstructure, German politics would be forced to change into something completely different as the elites would find themselves in a rearming Europe without a functioning military and no explanation to their native population as to why they should enlist to secure the anti-German elites.

    The spread of poz in Europe is all about trying to please the elite political class of America because our elites have made the calculation that pleasing the American imperial elites is more important for their hold on power than pleasing the local populations. That's why they're freaking so much about Trump who for a moment flashed the idea of pulling out of Europe - the time and effort they've invested in ingratiating themselves to American elites would be wasted.

    PS. On the subject of why Eastern Europe is somewhat more resistant to poz, I'm convinced that the fundamental root is the different reaction to the Russian and American World War II "liberator" narratives - much of Western Europe just passively accepted the American conquest with zero resistance, mental or military, while Eastern Europe needed constant repression to keep people pretending that they swallow the narrative.

    Russia could actually be a useful anti-poz ally if they shifted focus to dismantling and ridiculing the American WWII victory the way Russia's WWII victory has been dismantled in Eastern Europe but unfortunately they seem to be trying the opposite and we already know they can't compete with America's WWII cult.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Anon

    , @German_reader
    @The Big Red Scary

    Good points, I agree. Regarding the power of the German political class, well, they've created a parasitical stranglehold on the state through all their party foundations etc. (just like in other Western democracies I'd suppose), and have become quite openly "elitist" in recent years...basically they want as little democracy as possible (no referenda, ever), because regular people can't be trusted with important matters anyway (hey, they elected Hitler after all...and now they're voting AfD!), so those should be left to the "experts". Doesn't look like this system is capable of reforming itself.

  115. @AP
    @Seamus Padraig

    They are tied to Russia, so wouldn't work. Spencer somehow managed to find an unattractive Russian partner (those are very rare) who is an anti-Ukrainian Russian nationalist (less rare).

    Replies: @DFH, @Cagey Beast, @Anon, @Anatoly Karlin

    Nina Byzantina isn’t a Russian nationalist, she is a Soviet-Eurasianist who considers HBD to be “autism” and celebrates when actual Russian nationalists get in legal trouble – that is, very much sins of commission, as opposed to just omission (I do sometimes idly wonder how she gets on with Spencer, considering that HBD is at the core of the Alt Right).

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Wanting to base a country on HBD number crunching is "autism" though. It is to civic life Soylent meal replacement shakes are to the culinary arts. If we want to staff a high functioning penal colony then HBD is the way to go. If we want to have countries then more is required.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @Mao Cheng Ji
    @Anatoly Karlin


    who considers HBD to be “autism”
     
    I like that. I thought of it as some sort of adolescent antisocial disorder, but 'autism' is better.
    , @Verymuchalive
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I suppose with a name like Byzantina she would have to be an Eurasianist. Are you sure she isn't Armenian or Asiatic Greek

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Pumblechook

    , @AP
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Thanks, I hadn't been that familiar with her.

  116. @Anon
    @AP

    She certainly wouldn't qualify as a Russian nationalist the way Anatoly or any other Russian nationalists define it. Her "Russianness" always struck me as very shallow: Putin worship and vague sovok nostalgia in attempt to "trigger" Western liberals on Twitter, another American-based diaspora desperate to put on some identity.

    Replies: @DFH, @Anatoly Karlin

    This is an accurate description. Though she is very good at this, probably the best on Anglo Twitter.

  117. @DFH
    @Anon

    She's a Georgian not a Russian, so it would be odd if she was a (in the strict sense) Russian nationalist

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    She is half-Georgian, half-Russian.

  118. @The Big Red Scary
    @German_reader

    Germany, Poland, Russia, and many other neighboring countries, have sound historical reasons to be paranoid. A balance of confidence-building institutions (mostly economic) and defensive deterrents are the only way to resolve this dilemma. I agree that the solution is unlikely to come from the German political class (the Russian government has been trying for years to come to some kind of understanding, and has been roundly rejected), but if one is optimistic, one can imagine a partial solution coming out of the German industrialists. Politics that is bad for local business and serves foreign interests can only last for so long. Ultimately political power has to have a source, and it is rather unclear to me on what source current German political power is based.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @German_reader

    Isn’t that obvious? The power of the German political class comes from the United States that conquered the country 70 years ago. If the Americans suddenly decided to pull out of Europe and leave it without the security superstructure, German politics would be forced to change into something completely different as the elites would find themselves in a rearming Europe without a functioning military and no explanation to their native population as to why they should enlist to secure the anti-German elites.

    The spread of poz in Europe is all about trying to please the elite political class of America because our elites have made the calculation that pleasing the American imperial elites is more important for their hold on power than pleasing the local populations. That’s why they’re freaking so much about Trump who for a moment flashed the idea of pulling out of Europe – the time and effort they’ve invested in ingratiating themselves to American elites would be wasted.

    PS. On the subject of why Eastern Europe is somewhat more resistant to poz, I’m convinced that the fundamental root is the different reaction to the Russian and American World War II “liberator” narratives – much of Western Europe just passively accepted the American conquest with zero resistance, mental or military, while Eastern Europe needed constant repression to keep people pretending that they swallow the narrative.

    Russia could actually be a useful anti-poz ally if they shifted focus to dismantling and ridiculing the American WWII victory the way Russia’s WWII victory has been dismantled in Eastern Europe but unfortunately they seem to be trying the opposite and we already know they can’t compete with America’s WWII cult.

    • Agree: German_reader
    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @Jaakko Raipala

    I thought my comments made clear, though not explicitly, that I see US influence in Germany as the major problem. But it seems to me that there is a difference between influence and power, even when influence is very pervasive. Ultimately, if the influence of one party is seen to be at odds with interests of another party that has real power, the situation is not sustainable. In the US, for example, the pro-Israeli party obviously has an outsized influence on US foreign policy, but I suspect the real power lies with some combination of US oligarchs and institutions of the executive branch (including at least the CIA and the Pentagon). For historical reasons, the interests of the pro-Israeli party and those who actually have power are aligned. But if these interests came into conflict, then the situation could certainly change. I suspect the same is true even in Germany. As the US becomes less and less of a dominant power, both economically and militarily, the interests of the Atlanticist party will be so clearly at odds with the interests of German industry that there will have to be a power struggle to sort it out. I’m far from an expert, but it seems to me that the only weapon that the Atlanticists have is financial blackmail, and Russia has shown that this is ultimately an insufficient weapon.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Anon
    @Jaakko Raipala


    Russia could actually be a useful anti-poz ally if they shifted focus to dismantling and ridiculing the American WWII victory the way Russia’s WWII victory has been dismantled in Eastern Europe but unfortunately they seem to be trying the opposite and we already know they can’t compete with America’s WWII cult.
     
    The Great Patriotic War is an important part of modern Russian identity and the American WWII victory quite deserved.
    Why not dismantle the losers in Eastern Europe?

    Replies: @German_reader

  119. @Jaakko Raipala
    @The Big Red Scary

    Isn't that obvious? The power of the German political class comes from the United States that conquered the country 70 years ago. If the Americans suddenly decided to pull out of Europe and leave it without the security superstructure, German politics would be forced to change into something completely different as the elites would find themselves in a rearming Europe without a functioning military and no explanation to their native population as to why they should enlist to secure the anti-German elites.

    The spread of poz in Europe is all about trying to please the elite political class of America because our elites have made the calculation that pleasing the American imperial elites is more important for their hold on power than pleasing the local populations. That's why they're freaking so much about Trump who for a moment flashed the idea of pulling out of Europe - the time and effort they've invested in ingratiating themselves to American elites would be wasted.

    PS. On the subject of why Eastern Europe is somewhat more resistant to poz, I'm convinced that the fundamental root is the different reaction to the Russian and American World War II "liberator" narratives - much of Western Europe just passively accepted the American conquest with zero resistance, mental or military, while Eastern Europe needed constant repression to keep people pretending that they swallow the narrative.

    Russia could actually be a useful anti-poz ally if they shifted focus to dismantling and ridiculing the American WWII victory the way Russia's WWII victory has been dismantled in Eastern Europe but unfortunately they seem to be trying the opposite and we already know they can't compete with America's WWII cult.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Anon

    I thought my comments made clear, though not explicitly, that I see US influence in Germany as the major problem. But it seems to me that there is a difference between influence and power, even when influence is very pervasive. Ultimately, if the influence of one party is seen to be at odds with interests of another party that has real power, the situation is not sustainable. In the US, for example, the pro-Israeli party obviously has an outsized influence on US foreign policy, but I suspect the real power lies with some combination of US oligarchs and institutions of the executive branch (including at least the CIA and the Pentagon). For historical reasons, the interests of the pro-Israeli party and those who actually have power are aligned. But if these interests came into conflict, then the situation could certainly change. I suspect the same is true even in Germany. As the US becomes less and less of a dominant power, both economically and militarily, the interests of the Atlanticist party will be so clearly at odds with the interests of German industry that there will have to be a power struggle to sort it out. I’m far from an expert, but it seems to me that the only weapon that the Atlanticists have is financial blackmail, and Russia has shown that this is ultimately an insufficient weapon.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @The Big Red Scary


    I’m far from an expert, but it seems to me that the only weapon that the Atlanticists have is financial blackmail, and Russia has shown that this is ultimately an insufficient weapon.
     
    Not just financial blackmail, they have close ties to many important politicians.
    Merkel lives almost next door to their main office in Berlin.
  120. @Anatoly Karlin
    @AP

    Nina Byzantina isn't a Russian nationalist, she is a Soviet-Eurasianist who considers HBD to be "autism" and celebrates when actual Russian nationalists get in legal trouble - that is, very much sins of commission, as opposed to just omission (I do sometimes idly wonder how she gets on with Spencer, considering that HBD is at the core of the Alt Right).

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Mao Cheng Ji, @Verymuchalive, @AP

    Wanting to base a country on HBD number crunching is “autism” though. It is to civic life Soylent meal replacement shakes are to the culinary arts. If we want to staff a high functioning penal colony then HBD is the way to go. If we want to have countries then more is required.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Cagey Beast

    Yes, HBD is Lysenkoist heresy, no attention should be paid to it.

    https://twitter.com/esoterikwa/status/762025389057335296

  121. @Anatoly Karlin
    @AP

    Nina Byzantina isn't a Russian nationalist, she is a Soviet-Eurasianist who considers HBD to be "autism" and celebrates when actual Russian nationalists get in legal trouble - that is, very much sins of commission, as opposed to just omission (I do sometimes idly wonder how she gets on with Spencer, considering that HBD is at the core of the Alt Right).

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Mao Cheng Ji, @Verymuchalive, @AP

    who considers HBD to be “autism”

    I like that. I thought of it as some sort of adolescent antisocial disorder, but ‘autism’ is better.

  122. @laura r
    @reiner Tor

    richard is a circus pony show, he feeds MSM. he gives them what they want. he did call for the explusion of jew from the US. its on UTUBE. he said it would be peaceful. thanks richard, i feel better now. IMO, someones paying him. he has helped damage the nationalist movement & trump. hes bad news.

    Replies: @notanon

    he did call for the explusion of jew from the US. its on UTUBE. he said it would be peaceful. thanks richard, i feel better now

    the media is full of people advocating unlimited mass immigration, full integration of schools and the PC cult which when combined inevitably leads to white children becoming a targeted minority in every school and if you know what that means in practice you know what they are actually advocating (whether they realize it or not) is a stealth genocide.

  123. German_reader says:
    @The Big Red Scary
    @German_reader

    Germany, Poland, Russia, and many other neighboring countries, have sound historical reasons to be paranoid. A balance of confidence-building institutions (mostly economic) and defensive deterrents are the only way to resolve this dilemma. I agree that the solution is unlikely to come from the German political class (the Russian government has been trying for years to come to some kind of understanding, and has been roundly rejected), but if one is optimistic, one can imagine a partial solution coming out of the German industrialists. Politics that is bad for local business and serves foreign interests can only last for so long. Ultimately political power has to have a source, and it is rather unclear to me on what source current German political power is based.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @German_reader

    Good points, I agree. Regarding the power of the German political class, well, they’ve created a parasitical stranglehold on the state through all their party foundations etc. (just like in other Western democracies I’d suppose), and have become quite openly “elitist” in recent years…basically they want as little democracy as possible (no referenda, ever), because regular people can’t be trusted with important matters anyway (hey, they elected Hitler after all…and now they’re voting AfD!), so those should be left to the “experts”. Doesn’t look like this system is capable of reforming itself.

  124. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jaakko Raipala
    @The Big Red Scary

    Isn't that obvious? The power of the German political class comes from the United States that conquered the country 70 years ago. If the Americans suddenly decided to pull out of Europe and leave it without the security superstructure, German politics would be forced to change into something completely different as the elites would find themselves in a rearming Europe without a functioning military and no explanation to their native population as to why they should enlist to secure the anti-German elites.

    The spread of poz in Europe is all about trying to please the elite political class of America because our elites have made the calculation that pleasing the American imperial elites is more important for their hold on power than pleasing the local populations. That's why they're freaking so much about Trump who for a moment flashed the idea of pulling out of Europe - the time and effort they've invested in ingratiating themselves to American elites would be wasted.

    PS. On the subject of why Eastern Europe is somewhat more resistant to poz, I'm convinced that the fundamental root is the different reaction to the Russian and American World War II "liberator" narratives - much of Western Europe just passively accepted the American conquest with zero resistance, mental or military, while Eastern Europe needed constant repression to keep people pretending that they swallow the narrative.

    Russia could actually be a useful anti-poz ally if they shifted focus to dismantling and ridiculing the American WWII victory the way Russia's WWII victory has been dismantled in Eastern Europe but unfortunately they seem to be trying the opposite and we already know they can't compete with America's WWII cult.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Anon

    Russia could actually be a useful anti-poz ally if they shifted focus to dismantling and ridiculing the American WWII victory the way Russia’s WWII victory has been dismantled in Eastern Europe but unfortunately they seem to be trying the opposite and we already know they can’t compete with America’s WWII cult.

    The Great Patriotic War is an important part of modern Russian identity and the American WWII victory quite deserved.
    Why not dismantle the losers in Eastern Europe?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Anon


    The Great Patriotic War is an important part of modern Russian identity
     
    I don't think anybody's disputing that...but why should other peoples adopt it as a core element of their own identity?
    And the American WW2 victory cult is pretty ridiculous...it's unfortunate that so many people outside of the US have fallen for Hollywood propaganda and have started believing it. People actually alive during WW2 knew better.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Anon, @Art Deco

  125. Ironically Spencer has the same problem as upper middle class Anglo SJWs – their roots are from the most outbred parts of Europe and so they are open to the next transnational stage of human evolution but at the same time they can’t see that (on average) they are very different from people whose roots are from outside that area – they behave differently because behavior is partly genetic and behavior gets selected for the same as everything else.

    In short, they want to create a Star Trek future (in some form) but don’t accept (or at least don’t fully accept) they need to get everywhere to Denmark first – and that process is partly genetic. SJWs don’t accept genetics so their attempt to force things will inevitably end in genetic mutilation and eventual economic and social collapse. Spencer’s version is effectively the “nice guy nazi” version of SJW i.e. the version that accepts genetics and therefore could at least potentially work.

    I’m not saying Spencer sees his “white identity” nation in this way. I’m saying people from a certain evolutionary background see a clear political path which forks in two depending on whether they accept genetics or not with the SJW fork being the non-genetic dead end and Spencer’s fork being the other. However i don’t think he takes the genetics aspect as far as it needs to go i.e. the need to get every component nation to Denmark first before attempting to unify them.

    The genetic route to Star Trek could then fork two ways: an anarcho-syndicalist federation of ethno-states (lolz) or a kind of Warhammer 40K “nice guy nazi empire” way.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @notanon

    I agree with this but can't figure out how to use the "Agree" button

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @notanon
    @notanon


    they can’t see that (on average) they are very different from people whose roots are from outside that area
     
    I should add the transnational minded are a minority even among the hajnal nations, even though a large one, although possibly a majority among the upper middle class segment (possibly because their high rating in cooperative individualism is why they became the upper middle class in the first place).
  126. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @The Big Red Scary
    @Jaakko Raipala

    I thought my comments made clear, though not explicitly, that I see US influence in Germany as the major problem. But it seems to me that there is a difference between influence and power, even when influence is very pervasive. Ultimately, if the influence of one party is seen to be at odds with interests of another party that has real power, the situation is not sustainable. In the US, for example, the pro-Israeli party obviously has an outsized influence on US foreign policy, but I suspect the real power lies with some combination of US oligarchs and institutions of the executive branch (including at least the CIA and the Pentagon). For historical reasons, the interests of the pro-Israeli party and those who actually have power are aligned. But if these interests came into conflict, then the situation could certainly change. I suspect the same is true even in Germany. As the US becomes less and less of a dominant power, both economically and militarily, the interests of the Atlanticist party will be so clearly at odds with the interests of German industry that there will have to be a power struggle to sort it out. I’m far from an expert, but it seems to me that the only weapon that the Atlanticists have is financial blackmail, and Russia has shown that this is ultimately an insufficient weapon.

    Replies: @Anon

    I’m far from an expert, but it seems to me that the only weapon that the Atlanticists have is financial blackmail, and Russia has shown that this is ultimately an insufficient weapon.

    Not just financial blackmail, they have close ties to many important politicians.
    Merkel lives almost next door to their main office in Berlin.

  127. German_reader says:
    @Anon
    @Jaakko Raipala


    Russia could actually be a useful anti-poz ally if they shifted focus to dismantling and ridiculing the American WWII victory the way Russia’s WWII victory has been dismantled in Eastern Europe but unfortunately they seem to be trying the opposite and we already know they can’t compete with America’s WWII cult.
     
    The Great Patriotic War is an important part of modern Russian identity and the American WWII victory quite deserved.
    Why not dismantle the losers in Eastern Europe?

    Replies: @German_reader

    The Great Patriotic War is an important part of modern Russian identity

    I don’t think anybody’s disputing that…but why should other peoples adopt it as a core element of their own identity?
    And the American WW2 victory cult is pretty ridiculous…it’s unfortunate that so many people outside of the US have fallen for Hollywood propaganda and have started believing it. People actually alive during WW2 knew better.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @German_reader

    If not for the US the Nazis would have established an empire territoriality larger than modern Russia and would have achieved world dominion. I'd say that stopping that was a pretty good thing for people who aren't German, Arab/Muslim or Japanese.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Anon
    @German_reader


    I don’t think anybody’s disputing that…but why should other peoples adopt it as a core element of their own identity?
     
    Of course not, and nowadays they are doing the opposite which means that Russians are going to be defensive and not going help you dismantle any other victory cults.
    , @Art Deco
    @German_reader

    And the American WW2 victory cult is pretty ridiculous…i

    You lost and you deserved to lose. Suck it up.

    Replies: @Anon, @German_reader

  128. @German_reader
    @Anon


    The Great Patriotic War is an important part of modern Russian identity
     
    I don't think anybody's disputing that...but why should other peoples adopt it as a core element of their own identity?
    And the American WW2 victory cult is pretty ridiculous...it's unfortunate that so many people outside of the US have fallen for Hollywood propaganda and have started believing it. People actually alive during WW2 knew better.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Anon, @Art Deco

    If not for the US the Nazis would have established an empire territoriality larger than modern Russia and would have achieved world dominion. I’d say that stopping that was a pretty good thing for people who aren’t German, Arab/Muslim or Japanese.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Greasy William

    Well I don't dispute the substance of that (even if no one knows whether Nazi Germany could have established "world dominion"; I also doubt a Nazi victory would have been good for Arabs), but that's just as lame as a permanent justification for US hegemony as it was for Soviet hegemony (and the peoples of the Soviet Union sacrificed much more for the defeat of Nazi Germany than Americans did). WW2 is very convenient for the American self-conception as a global redeemer nation though, no doubt about that.

  129. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader
    @Anon


    The Great Patriotic War is an important part of modern Russian identity
     
    I don't think anybody's disputing that...but why should other peoples adopt it as a core element of their own identity?
    And the American WW2 victory cult is pretty ridiculous...it's unfortunate that so many people outside of the US have fallen for Hollywood propaganda and have started believing it. People actually alive during WW2 knew better.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Anon, @Art Deco

    I don’t think anybody’s disputing that…but why should other peoples adopt it as a core element of their own identity?

    Of course not, and nowadays they are doing the opposite which means that Russians are going to be defensive and not going help you dismantle any other victory cults.

  130. German_reader says:
    @Greasy William
    @German_reader

    If not for the US the Nazis would have established an empire territoriality larger than modern Russia and would have achieved world dominion. I'd say that stopping that was a pretty good thing for people who aren't German, Arab/Muslim or Japanese.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Well I don’t dispute the substance of that (even if no one knows whether Nazi Germany could have established “world dominion”; I also doubt a Nazi victory would have been good for Arabs), but that’s just as lame as a permanent justification for US hegemony as it was for Soviet hegemony (and the peoples of the Soviet Union sacrificed much more for the defeat of Nazi Germany than Americans did). WW2 is very convenient for the American self-conception as a global redeemer nation though, no doubt about that.

  131. @Anatoly Karlin
    @AP

    Nina Byzantina isn't a Russian nationalist, she is a Soviet-Eurasianist who considers HBD to be "autism" and celebrates when actual Russian nationalists get in legal trouble - that is, very much sins of commission, as opposed to just omission (I do sometimes idly wonder how she gets on with Spencer, considering that HBD is at the core of the Alt Right).

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Mao Cheng Ji, @Verymuchalive, @AP

    I suppose with a name like Byzantina she would have to be an Eurasianist. Are you sure she isn’t Armenian or Asiatic Greek

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Verymuchalive

    That's her pen name, her real name is Nina Kouprianova.

    (Not doxxing at this point since its all over the Internet now anyway).

    , @Pumblechook
    @Verymuchalive

    She is 1/4 Georgian, that is her link to the Caucasus

  132. @German_reader
    @Anon


    The Great Patriotic War is an important part of modern Russian identity
     
    I don't think anybody's disputing that...but why should other peoples adopt it as a core element of their own identity?
    And the American WW2 victory cult is pretty ridiculous...it's unfortunate that so many people outside of the US have fallen for Hollywood propaganda and have started believing it. People actually alive during WW2 knew better.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Anon, @Art Deco

    And the American WW2 victory cult is pretty ridiculous…i

    You lost and you deserved to lose. Suck it up.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Art Deco

    Americans aren't the ones who have a Victory Day parade every year anyway.

    , @German_reader
    @Art Deco


    You lost and you deserved to lose
     
    I didn't dispute that. Your victory cult is still pretty ridiculous though.

    Replies: @Anon, @Art Deco

  133. @Cagey Beast
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Wanting to base a country on HBD number crunching is "autism" though. It is to civic life Soylent meal replacement shakes are to the culinary arts. If we want to staff a high functioning penal colony then HBD is the way to go. If we want to have countries then more is required.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Yes, HBD is Lysenkoist heresy, no attention should be paid to it.

    https://twitter.com/esoterikwa/status/762025389057335296

  134. @Verymuchalive
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I suppose with a name like Byzantina she would have to be an Eurasianist. Are you sure she isn't Armenian or Asiatic Greek

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Pumblechook

    That’s her pen name, her real name is Nina Kouprianova.

    (Not doxxing at this point since its all over the Internet now anyway).

  135. @Art Deco
    @German_reader

    And the American WW2 victory cult is pretty ridiculous…i

    You lost and you deserved to lose. Suck it up.

    Replies: @Anon, @German_reader

    Americans aren’t the ones who have a Victory Day parade every year anyway.

  136. @Art Deco
    @German_reader

    And the American WW2 victory cult is pretty ridiculous…i

    You lost and you deserved to lose. Suck it up.

    Replies: @Anon, @German_reader

    You lost and you deserved to lose

    I didn’t dispute that. Your victory cult is still pretty ridiculous though.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @German_reader

    What was Germany's victory cult?

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Art Deco
    @German_reader

    There is no 'victory cult'. Your nose is out of joint because a recitation of history in a documentary makes Germany look like...Germany.

    Replies: @German_reader

  137. @Art Deco
    @Diversity Heretic

    I think Richard Spencer would be better off building a career for himself (sell insurance, sell real estate, prepare tax returns, whatever) and building a family rather than engage in weird pseudo-politics. He's radioactive now. If a younger version of Richard Spencer is interested in political action, run for state legislature on a platform of cleaning up school curricula at all levels.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Just Sayin', @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Art Deco would be better off getting back to painting and collaging degenerate retro-Weimar Republic art to sell to all of his Manhattan beautiful people friends, rather than trolling on Unz.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    I haven't set foot in Manhattan since 1990 and my friends are non-beautiful provincials in late middle age, bar those who are non-beautiful provincials in old age.

  138. @German_reader
    @Art Deco


    You lost and you deserved to lose
     
    I didn't dispute that. Your victory cult is still pretty ridiculous though.

    Replies: @Anon, @Art Deco

    What was Germany’s victory cult?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Anon

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedantag

    That was a long time ago though, and in retrospect the militarism/chauvinism associated with that wasn't a good idea.

  139. @Anon
    @German_reader

    What was Germany's victory cult?

    Replies: @German_reader

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedantag

    That was a long time ago though, and in retrospect the militarism/chauvinism associated with that wasn’t a good idea.

  140. @Anatoly Karlin
    @AP

    Nina Byzantina isn't a Russian nationalist, she is a Soviet-Eurasianist who considers HBD to be "autism" and celebrates when actual Russian nationalists get in legal trouble - that is, very much sins of commission, as opposed to just omission (I do sometimes idly wonder how she gets on with Spencer, considering that HBD is at the core of the Alt Right).

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Mao Cheng Ji, @Verymuchalive, @AP

    Thanks, I hadn’t been that familiar with her.

  141. @reiner Tor
    @hyperbola


    Frankly Richard Spencer looks more and more like “controlled opposition”
     
    He's genuine, quite obviously. His mother was threatened in Montana, and he himself was sucker-punched. Are you insinuating he's doing it for... money, or what?

    Replies: @laura r, @ben tillman

    He’s genuine, quite obviously.

    You’re a bit too far removed to make such a confident judgment. By all appearances, he’s — at best — LARPing or — at worst — on the Feds’ payroll to discredit white advocacy.

    If he were genuine, he would be networking and building something in Dallas, which is where he grew up and where the greatest amount of potentially sympathetic money is.

  142. @notanon
    Ironically Spencer has the same problem as upper middle class Anglo SJWs - their roots are from the most outbred parts of Europe and so they are open to the next transnational stage of human evolution but at the same time they can't see that (on average) they are very different from people whose roots are from outside that area - they behave differently because behavior is partly genetic and behavior gets selected for the same as everything else.

    In short, they want to create a Star Trek future (in some form) but don't accept (or at least don't fully accept) they need to get everywhere to Denmark first - and that process is partly genetic. SJWs don't accept genetics so their attempt to force things will inevitably end in genetic mutilation and eventual economic and social collapse. Spencer's version is effectively the "nice guy nazi" version of SJW i.e. the version that accepts genetics and therefore could at least potentially work.

    I'm not saying Spencer sees his "white identity" nation in this way. I'm saying people from a certain evolutionary background see a clear political path which forks in two depending on whether they accept genetics or not with the SJW fork being the non-genetic dead end and Spencer's fork being the other. However i don't think he takes the genetics aspect as far as it needs to go i.e. the need to get every component nation to Denmark first before attempting to unify them.

    The genetic route to Star Trek could then fork two ways: an anarcho-syndicalist federation of ethno-states (lolz) or a kind of Warhammer 40K "nice guy nazi empire" way.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @notanon

    I agree with this but can’t figure out how to use the “Agree” button

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Greasy William

    You need to check the "remember my information" box and make a comment for that to work (and keep the cookie it creates...if you accidentally delete it, you'll have to do it again).

  143. @Greasy William
    @notanon

    I agree with this but can't figure out how to use the "Agree" button

    Replies: @German_reader

    You need to check the “remember my information” box and make a comment for that to work (and keep the cookie it creates…if you accidentally delete it, you’ll have to do it again).

  144. @Cagey Beast
    OT:
    I just listened to this talk by Vladimir Pozner I found while looking for an English version of his recent interview with Julian Assange. I enjoyed it:

    Vladimir Pozner on US-RUSSIA relations
    http://pozneronline.ru/2017/10/19611/

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Cagey Beast:

    I used to listen to Pozner on short wave when he was warbling the Soviet line on Radio Moscow.

    He’s a real slick article. Very articulate but untrustworthy. I didn’t trust him then and I don’t trust him now.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Dan Hayes

    You can't spell Pozner without Poz.

  145. @Dan Hayes
    @Cagey Beast

    Cagey Beast:

    I used to listen to Pozner on short wave when he was warbling the Soviet line on Radio Moscow.

    He's a real slick article. Very articulate but untrustworthy. I didn't trust him then and I don't trust him now.

    Replies: @Anon

    You can’t spell Pozner without Poz.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  146. @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Art Deco

    Art Deco would be better off getting back to painting and collaging degenerate retro-Weimar Republic art to sell to all of his Manhattan beautiful people friends, rather than trolling on Unz.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    I haven’t set foot in Manhattan since 1990 and my friends are non-beautiful provincials in late middle age, bar those who are non-beautiful provincials in old age.

  147. @German_reader
    @Art Deco


    You lost and you deserved to lose
     
    I didn't dispute that. Your victory cult is still pretty ridiculous though.

    Replies: @Anon, @Art Deco

    There is no ‘victory cult’. Your nose is out of joint because a recitation of history in a documentary makes Germany look like…Germany.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Art Deco

    Blah, I don't even understand what you're trying to tell me, I've never denied that Germans committed mass murder during the Nazi era and deserved to lose the war they started.
    Still doesn't change the fact that US perceptions of WW2 can be pretty bizarre and excessively self-congratulatory. Yes, the US contribution to the war was important (especially in the war at sea and in the air, and in aid to the Soviet Union), but the fact remains that US forces only entered the ground war in full force in 1944. They never had to face the Wehrmacht in full force and in its prime. And the American experience on the home front was a joke compared to that of all other combatants...what was the worst deprivation US civilians had to endure during the war? Gasoline rationing and not being able to buy a new Ford or Buick?
    Admittedly I should have been clearer in what I intended to convey...wasn't my intention to denigrate the undoubted achievements and sacrifices of many US servicemen during WW2. But on the whole American perceptions of the world wars are pretty distorted imo, and that's a factor in the demented policies the US pursues today (but probably no use telling that to you...iirc you're one of those "clever" guys who were in favour of the Iraq war and pretty much every other idiotic interention the US "elite" comes up with, because it's always 1938 or whatever).

    Replies: @Art Deco

  148. @Verymuchalive
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I suppose with a name like Byzantina she would have to be an Eurasianist. Are you sure she isn't Armenian or Asiatic Greek

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Pumblechook

    She is 1/4 Georgian, that is her link to the Caucasus

  149. @notanon
    Ironically Spencer has the same problem as upper middle class Anglo SJWs - their roots are from the most outbred parts of Europe and so they are open to the next transnational stage of human evolution but at the same time they can't see that (on average) they are very different from people whose roots are from outside that area - they behave differently because behavior is partly genetic and behavior gets selected for the same as everything else.

    In short, they want to create a Star Trek future (in some form) but don't accept (or at least don't fully accept) they need to get everywhere to Denmark first - and that process is partly genetic. SJWs don't accept genetics so their attempt to force things will inevitably end in genetic mutilation and eventual economic and social collapse. Spencer's version is effectively the "nice guy nazi" version of SJW i.e. the version that accepts genetics and therefore could at least potentially work.

    I'm not saying Spencer sees his "white identity" nation in this way. I'm saying people from a certain evolutionary background see a clear political path which forks in two depending on whether they accept genetics or not with the SJW fork being the non-genetic dead end and Spencer's fork being the other. However i don't think he takes the genetics aspect as far as it needs to go i.e. the need to get every component nation to Denmark first before attempting to unify them.

    The genetic route to Star Trek could then fork two ways: an anarcho-syndicalist federation of ethno-states (lolz) or a kind of Warhammer 40K "nice guy nazi empire" way.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @notanon

    they can’t see that (on average) they are very different from people whose roots are from outside that area

    I should add the transnational minded are a minority even among the hajnal nations, even though a large one, although possibly a majority among the upper middle class segment (possibly because their high rating in cooperative individualism is why they became the upper middle class in the first place).

  150. German_reader says:
    @Art Deco
    @German_reader

    There is no 'victory cult'. Your nose is out of joint because a recitation of history in a documentary makes Germany look like...Germany.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Blah, I don’t even understand what you’re trying to tell me, I’ve never denied that Germans committed mass murder during the Nazi era and deserved to lose the war they started.
    Still doesn’t change the fact that US perceptions of WW2 can be pretty bizarre and excessively self-congratulatory. Yes, the US contribution to the war was important (especially in the war at sea and in the air, and in aid to the Soviet Union), but the fact remains that US forces only entered the ground war in full force in 1944. They never had to face the Wehrmacht in full force and in its prime. And the American experience on the home front was a joke compared to that of all other combatants…what was the worst deprivation US civilians had to endure during the war? Gasoline rationing and not being able to buy a new Ford or Buick?
    Admittedly I should have been clearer in what I intended to convey…wasn’t my intention to denigrate the undoubted achievements and sacrifices of many US servicemen during WW2. But on the whole American perceptions of the world wars are pretty distorted imo, and that’s a factor in the demented policies the US pursues today (but probably no use telling that to you…iirc you’re one of those “clever” guys who were in favour of the Iraq war and pretty much every other idiotic interention the US “elite” comes up with, because it’s always 1938 or whatever).

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @German_reader

    Blah, I don’t even understand what you’re trying to tell me,

    That you're lying to yourself and to others in an effort to reduce the standing of the United States. Does that make it clear enough to you?


    Still doesn’t change the fact that US perceptions of WW2 can be pretty bizarre and excessively self-congratulatory.

    No, you have your nose out of joint and you remanufacture war documentaries in your head to see what you want to see. No one actually familiar with the discussion of American veterans or civilians around at that time would say such a thing

    That different countries experienced the war differently does not diminish any particular participant. Nor is their any element in American discussion of the war that does not acknowledge the suffering of Britain or continental Europe in contrast to the United States or Australia.

    Replies: @German_reader

  151. @AP
    @Hector_St_Clare

    All the countries in non-Balkans Eastern Europe view Russia more negatively than positively, just some (Poland, Ukraine, Baltics) more so than others (Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary):

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/08/16/publics-worldwide-unfavorable-toward-putin-russia/

    In Hungary, 48% viewed Russia unfavorably and 39% favorably.

    Replies: @Hector_St_Clare

    AP,

    I’d consider a 50/40 split to be “mixed”, as I said. And the last poll I saw in Slovakia put the two-way split on Russia to be exactly 50:50 (they were the most pro-Russian outside Belarus and the Balkans).

    The Pew study from earlier this year on social attitudes in eastern Europe wasn’t primarily about politics, but it also painted a more complex picture than you indicate. In essence, the overall picture of eastern Europeans was that they tended to feel more favourably towards the west than towards Russia, but they weren’t overall that favourable towards either one, and they generally also thought it was a good thing that Russia served as a sort of counterweight to the west.

  152. My impression is that during the war and for a long time afterwards, Americans regarded the Pacific War as the main event and the conflict in Europe/Africa as secondary in importance.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Anonymous

    Anonymous:

    If Americans regarded the Pacific War as the main event it would have been due to US Marines and Navy propaganda emphasizing that campaign.

  153. @Anonymous
    My impression is that during the war and for a long time afterwards, Americans regarded the Pacific War as the main event and the conflict in Europe/Africa as secondary in importance.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Anonymous:

    If Americans regarded the Pacific War as the main event it would have been due to US Marines and Navy propaganda emphasizing that campaign.

  154. @German_reader
    @Art Deco

    Blah, I don't even understand what you're trying to tell me, I've never denied that Germans committed mass murder during the Nazi era and deserved to lose the war they started.
    Still doesn't change the fact that US perceptions of WW2 can be pretty bizarre and excessively self-congratulatory. Yes, the US contribution to the war was important (especially in the war at sea and in the air, and in aid to the Soviet Union), but the fact remains that US forces only entered the ground war in full force in 1944. They never had to face the Wehrmacht in full force and in its prime. And the American experience on the home front was a joke compared to that of all other combatants...what was the worst deprivation US civilians had to endure during the war? Gasoline rationing and not being able to buy a new Ford or Buick?
    Admittedly I should have been clearer in what I intended to convey...wasn't my intention to denigrate the undoubted achievements and sacrifices of many US servicemen during WW2. But on the whole American perceptions of the world wars are pretty distorted imo, and that's a factor in the demented policies the US pursues today (but probably no use telling that to you...iirc you're one of those "clever" guys who were in favour of the Iraq war and pretty much every other idiotic interention the US "elite" comes up with, because it's always 1938 or whatever).

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Blah, I don’t even understand what you’re trying to tell me,

    That you’re lying to yourself and to others in an effort to reduce the standing of the United States. Does that make it clear enough to you?

    Still doesn’t change the fact that US perceptions of WW2 can be pretty bizarre and excessively self-congratulatory.

    No, you have your nose out of joint and you remanufacture war documentaries in your head to see what you want to see. No one actually familiar with the discussion of American veterans or civilians around at that time would say such a thing

    That different countries experienced the war differently does not diminish any particular participant. Nor is their any element in American discussion of the war that does not acknowledge the suffering of Britain or continental Europe in contrast to the United States or Australia.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Art Deco


    That you’re lying to yourself and to others in an effort to reduce the standing of the United States.
     
    Lies aren't necessary to reduce the US's standing, Americans are quite capable of that themselves given the dysfunctional state of their politics and the bizarre policies pursued by the US abroad, and neither your complaining about anti-Americanism nor your attempt to depict me as a resentful crypto-Nazi (both predictable standard responses) will change that.

    No, you have your nose out of joint and you remanufacture war documentaries in your head to see what you want to see. No one actually familiar with the discussion of American veterans or civilians around at that time would say such a thing
     
    I don't know what "war documentaries" you're thinking of, personally I've only watched Ken Burns' documentary about the American war experience, and admittedly that was ok (if mostly quite boring, apart from the segments about pows of the Japanese). Serious documentaries are niche products though and have limited impact on the general popular culture. As for what Americans who actually participated in WW2 thought, most of them have been dead for some time (especially those in decision-making positions), and I don't see much evidence that their more sobering experiences have been absorbed in any meaningful way by present-day leadership in the US.
    And I do believe that the nature of American experience in WW2, or at least how it is remembered, is in certain ways quite problematic. For Americans WW2 was a huge success story, it made the US into the predominant world power (at the cost of the lowest casualty count of all combatants), and gained immense prestige for the American model which the US is still benefiting from even today. Hence the tendency to see everything through the lens of that (exceptional) conflict and towards an excessive military interventionism that routinely results in disastrous outcomes.
    Anyway, I can see how my comments offended you, it may not be the best idea for a German (though in my case one of only partly German descent, with an English grandfather who served in the British army from 1940 to 1946) to comment like that on this conflict, given the nature and scale of crimes committed by Germans. I think I'll try to limit myself to discussing technical aspects of the war in future, since anything else usually gets ugly.
  155. German_reader says:
    @Art Deco
    @German_reader

    Blah, I don’t even understand what you’re trying to tell me,

    That you're lying to yourself and to others in an effort to reduce the standing of the United States. Does that make it clear enough to you?


    Still doesn’t change the fact that US perceptions of WW2 can be pretty bizarre and excessively self-congratulatory.

    No, you have your nose out of joint and you remanufacture war documentaries in your head to see what you want to see. No one actually familiar with the discussion of American veterans or civilians around at that time would say such a thing

    That different countries experienced the war differently does not diminish any particular participant. Nor is their any element in American discussion of the war that does not acknowledge the suffering of Britain or continental Europe in contrast to the United States or Australia.

    Replies: @German_reader

    That you’re lying to yourself and to others in an effort to reduce the standing of the United States.

    Lies aren’t necessary to reduce the US’s standing, Americans are quite capable of that themselves given the dysfunctional state of their politics and the bizarre policies pursued by the US abroad, and neither your complaining about anti-Americanism nor your attempt to depict me as a resentful crypto-Nazi (both predictable standard responses) will change that.

    No, you have your nose out of joint and you remanufacture war documentaries in your head to see what you want to see. No one actually familiar with the discussion of American veterans or civilians around at that time would say such a thing

    I don’t know what “war documentaries” you’re thinking of, personally I’ve only watched Ken Burns’ documentary about the American war experience, and admittedly that was ok (if mostly quite boring, apart from the segments about pows of the Japanese). Serious documentaries are niche products though and have limited impact on the general popular culture. As for what Americans who actually participated in WW2 thought, most of them have been dead for some time (especially those in decision-making positions), and I don’t see much evidence that their more sobering experiences have been absorbed in any meaningful way by present-day leadership in the US.
    And I do believe that the nature of American experience in WW2, or at least how it is remembered, is in certain ways quite problematic. For Americans WW2 was a huge success story, it made the US into the predominant world power (at the cost of the lowest casualty count of all combatants), and gained immense prestige for the American model which the US is still benefiting from even today. Hence the tendency to see everything through the lens of that (exceptional) conflict and towards an excessive military interventionism that routinely results in disastrous outcomes.
    Anyway, I can see how my comments offended you, it may not be the best idea for a German (though in my case one of only partly German descent, with an English grandfather who served in the British army from 1940 to 1946) to comment like that on this conflict, given the nature and scale of crimes committed by Germans. I think I’ll try to limit myself to discussing technical aspects of the war in future, since anything else usually gets ugly.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Anatoly Karlin Comments via RSS