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Vkusvill Jumps the LGBT Shark
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I wrote about Woke Capital making inroads into Russia after Netherlands HQ’ed Yandex.Taxi fired a driver who refused service to a rude Black foreign student last year.

However, not all such corporate attempts to signal fealty to progressive values are paying off.

Vkusvill is a nice chain of grocery stores that are somewhere in between budget outlets like Perekrestok (=Carrefour/Safeway in the Western context) and the snobbish Azbuka Vkusa (=Whole Foods). Trader Joe’s would probably be its closest US equivalent. But it is also expanding abroad, with two branches and a cafe in the Netherlands, and planning a listing in New York.

So it is not too surprising that Vkusvill thought that now might be an auspicious conjuncture to do this:

The ad featured a number of real-life VkusVill shoppers such as a student, a single mother, and two straight couples, then ended with the “matriarch”-led family including the lesbian couple, who declined to talk to the Financial Times.

The family of women posed for pictures with meatless burgers and coconut condensed milk as they espoused their support for veganism, recycling and polyamorous relationships.

Certainly not a bad idea to attract more hipsters.

(Incidentally, what’s even funnier is that the lesbian family in question is from pro-Western Georgia. Which happened to cancel its gay pride parade through Tbilisi due to Far Right attacks just a week ago ).

But this provoked a boycott from Orthodox non-GMO type shoppers who happen to form the other wing of their clientele. Quickly it became evident that they were more numerous than the polyamorous hipsters, forcing Vkusvill to backpedal.

They apologized, blaming an activist underling in the marketing department for the debacle, and replaced their photo of a Vkusvill family with a rather more traditional one.

This in turn enraged the liberals, who condemned Vkusvill for its cowardice and retreat before homophobia. Meanwhile, their Amsterdam branch apologized to the Dutch LGBT community.

Such are the woes of balancing between two stools for the managers of a company who don’t give a damn either way and just want to make money in this Clown World of ours.

In my observations, the saying “Go woke, go broke” is largely rightoid cope. It just doesn’t work, at most, the SJWs merely jump the shark by a couple of years.

That said, it might actually be true in a country where support for gay marriage is at less than 20% and most people are strongly repulsed by Woke signaling.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Conservatism, LGBT, Moscow, Netherlands, Russia, Woke Capital 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

  2. Mersaux says:

    It’s still a bad omen. in some years when Russia is more woke they will try that again, and probably succeed

    • Replies: @Passer by
    , @silviosilver
  3. Beckow says:

    Western Georgia, you don’t say? Intriguing. After a thorough examination of the two pictures I have to go with the quatro-group, they look more simpatico. I am assuming that they are all women given the -a endings in their names, but who knows. Nothing personal, it’s just that the kefir gulping dork in the other picture looks very creepy.

    Who does the casting in Russia these days? Don’t they understand that good casting is half of the story?

    • Replies: @Johnplywood
  4. Passer by says:
    @Mersaux

    There is higher level of sexual dimorphism in Eastern Europe, Russia, and some muslim countries, as measured by testosteron exposure in the womb (2D:4D ratio) so high levels of gender fluidity there are unlikely.

  5. songbird says:

    I saw a commercial recently for some HIV medication. Among the couples featured appeared to be two lesbians.

  6. Any theories on why Putin allows western social media and NGOs to still operate in Russia? They are openly trying to overthrow him.

    There are 4 possible reasons for this:

    1. The backlash would be too severe. It would eliminate the putinist veneer of a soft authoritarian state and morph it into a hard one. This could galvanize soyboys and libs inside Russia and push the west on a hardline stance.

    2. Perhaps Russia is biding its time. If NS2 goes online and in the future EU dependence on Russia oil and gas grows, then it could make a move. The EU does seem to be moving away from the US increasingly. Perhaps Moscow is waiting on an opportune moment to kick the Sorosites out?

    3. Putin and his boys are just boomers. They are still running on outdated classical liberal intellectual software and don’t really like hard authoritarianism. If so, they’re making the same mistake the Tsar did before 1917. There were a lot of liberals in Medvedev’s government after all.

    4. Putin is drinking from Shlomo’s trough, no different than Bolsonaro or Trump.

  7. @Caspar von Everec

    Some element of (1), though that only really applies to YouTube, the only Western media platform with genuinely universal usage in Russia.

    Mostly (2) and (3). Optimistically – more (2), pessimistically – more (3). There’s different signals.

  8. @Anatoly Karlin

    https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/in-depth-research-reports/issue-brief/what-will-the-impact-be-if-nord-stream-2-is-completed/

    I see. (2) Is more plausible if the EU increased gas and oil imports from Russia. This atlantic council article above claims that Russian oil and gas exports to the EU has peaked and NS2 won’t increase capacity.

    Well, judging that they a state department propaganda outlet, i’m less inclined to believe them. Any data on this matter?

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  9. 216 says: • Website

    17% is up from the last survey portrayed here, which was 7% IIRC.

  10. 216 says: • Website

    Shoutout to the based 3% in Sweden and the Netherlands.

    In this life or the next, we will reclaim our lands.

    • Replies: @Some Guy
  11. 216 says: • Website
    @Caspar von Everec

    Any theories on why Putin allows western social media and NGOs to still operate in Russia? They are openly trying to overthrow him.

    American conservative politicians still insist on using the Big Tech platforms that banned their President. They still suck up to the ADL and SPLC.

    In the US, its (3) and (4).

    (1) would actually be the inverse for the US Right. The GOP would take no more than a one-time electoral hit, in exchange for becoming uncancellable.

  12. Perhaps this is how far the poz can go, before getting shut down.

    One can hope, at any rate.

  13. Some Guy says:
    @216

    Those might be Muslims.

  14. 22pp22 says:

    I am the son of a gay guy (or maybe his boyfriend) and I oppose gay marriage. I don’t care if I am a minority of one.

    Incidentally, he thought the gay community should learn the virtue of discretion. One of his last coherent thoughts before his death was that they would regret being so in-your-face.

  15. @Passer by

    There is higher level of sexual dimorphism in Eastern Europe, Russia, and some muslim countries, as measured by testosteron exposure in the womb (2D:4D ratio)

    That’s interesting. I hadn’t heard that before. Is there a cite?

    • Replies: @Passer by
  16. Two takeaways:

    1)
    If you are a Marketing Director whose company/country is going woke and who takes his fiduciary responsibility seriously, here is a solid argument for taking baby steps. While you can track with the Zeitgeist by showing more hipsterish people in your advertising, you do not want to put your self/company into a Vkusvill Dilemma, where you have overcommitted on wokeness to the offense of those below you on the curve but you cannot mollify them without offending those above you on the curve. There is such a thing as getting “too far out over your skis”. [Not a Slavic surname double-entendre.]

    Pragmatically/tactically, you are really better off keeping most of the market above you on the curve. Contrary to the propaganda, those highest on the curve are the least tolerant and will punish you most severely for backsliding once they know you are susceptible to ascending the curve from social pressure. You maintain more market leverage by keeping your ascent slow, where those lower on the curve aren’t alienated by jarring changes, while those higher on the curve can content themselves with some upward movement, however small. And you haven’t marked your self/company out as a susceptible target of wokeist social/political pressure, which is always a no-win game for you.

    This leaves aside the fact the everyone seems to overestimate the high-curve demographics due to them being highly vocal though a minority. The quieter majority of your product buyers are likely to be lower on the curve than in your activist-distorted perception.

    2)
    If the pictured lesbian-polyamorist “family” is in any way representative of Georgia/Russia, all I can say is that you guys have much better lesbians-polyamorists than we do. About 90% of the US lesbians-polyamorists I see are obviously bioleninist roadkill, to whom the natural reaction is “good riddance”, “please don’t come back”, etc. These Georgian ladies, by contrast, all look at least salvageable, and the one on the right is positively fetching. Just by removing piercings and dreadlocks (and adding some natural hair), all of these Georginas could be made presentable.

  17. Doesn’t this ad violate Russian gay propaganda law? Vkusvill needs to be slapped with something like 1 billion ruble fine for this, othewise someone will try again.

    Someone like Sberbank for example: apparently Russia’s main state-run bank appointed this person as its “brand ambassador.”

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    , @reiner Tor
  18. @Caspar von Everec

    Gazprom exports around 200 bcm of gas to Europe including Turkey every year. It’s astronomic amount, and this is not something that can be ramped up overnight. The immediate impact of NS2 will be to take away Ukrainian transit, the rest will depend on European demand. Considering that industry in Europe is in a long-term decline I personally do not see much upside.

    But that’s actually beside the point as all available evidence indicates that massive Russian gas exports to the EU failed to generate any political leverage for Russia. If anything the opposite happened: EU gained additional leverage over Russia.

  19. @Passer by

    You’ve got it wrong. Eastern Europeans have higher digit ratios, indicating lower prenatal exposure to testosterone. It has nothing to do with “dimorphism” (it’s observed in males as well as females) or sexual fluidity.

    • Replies: @Passer by
  20. @Beckow

    Look kid, you’re just a stupid fuck with apalling judgment. How about keep your worthless ass opinions about the Russian father to yourself, and focus on improving your own country (do you even have one?)

  21. @Felix Keverich

    Russia has been lazy with enforcing that law
    In the few cases I actually saw it at work, it turned out it was companies preemptively self-censoring before the Russian Gov actually got involved

  22. Vkusvill is a nice chain of grocery stores that…….is also expanding abroad, with two branches and a cafe in the Netherlands, and planning a listing in New York.

    The people running this grocery chain obviously don’t get it. There will be no let up in Western sanctions, ineffectual as they are, for many years. Expanding into hostile overseas countries is downright stupid. Pandering to these countries will inevitably antagonise the home market, undermine profitability and encourage a takeover from rivals. Alternatively, future sanctions may well freeze the company’s foreign assets, especially if they don’t go along with the Globohomo agenda.

    If foreign expansion is desired, then it should be in countries with more or less stable relations with Russia, like Mongolia, Belarus, even Armenia and Azerbaijan. The West and many other areas are hostile territory for Russian business. Any change is a long way off.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  23. Svevlad says:

    ‘Go woke, go broke’ will be cope as long as the state doesn’t start rabidly enforcing it CCP style. Lolbercons btfo forever and on 6 gorillion suicide watches.

    At this point it’s obvious it is indeed the only way for us not to die from globohomo cringe.

    The instant a corpo even thinks of going woke, based PUTLER should simply disembowel it and redistribute the resources to less subversive companies.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
  24. @Verymuchalive

    When the Ukraine suffered its latest color revolution Russian businesses in the country were simply expropriated. Pashinyan regime has been shaking down Russian companies in Armenia. Lukashenka seized the local division of Gazprombank, after its head tried to run in presidential election.

    Environment is tough for Russian businessmen all around.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Verymuchalive
  25. Mr. Hack says:
    @Felix Keverich

    German marketing and products also suffered a lot after the Anschluss of Czech territory in 1939. Such are the vagaries of unchecked imperialism.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  26. Mr. Hack says:

    Ксюша needs to aim higher – she can do better that this butch looking albino. 🙂

  27. I’m surprised how based Malaysia is, given the number of Chinese there

  28. El Dato says:

    polyamorous hipsters = polyps

    • LOL: Levtraro
  29. I don’t understand this marketing strategy

    Surely the majority who are not minorities have greater economic buying power

    In the UK if you watch adverts the majority of them have started to feature black people in every single one this all happened after George Floyd and blm

    The thing is black people are only about 3%of the population 1.9 million
    There are other ethnic groups in the UK who are largely ignored and they don’t complain and get on with life

    Its just out of proportion that every advert must feature a minority

    Business in my view should focus on selling a good product and not social engineering
    Sberbank really takes the gay propaganda too far
    Most gays are not exhibitionists and this person just looks vulgar

  30. Hartnell says:

    There is a sort of small slightly growing LGBTQWRZ movement in Russia but it is largely limited (for now) amongst the small pro-West faction. The vast majority of Russians dont really care for it.

    In my own opinion, the vast majority of Russia’s youth is “neutral” towards homosexuality. That is they dont mind what people do behind closed doors (thats their business) but they dont want to see gay pride parade on the streets. Not many are a huge fan of gay marriage too.

    If Im honest, the more stupid the West becomes, the more Russia’s youth continually are put off the West and start to actively question it, which is a good thing.

  31. songbird says:

    Is YouTube as gay in Russia?

  32. songbird says:
    @Confused millennial

    One of the amazing things to me was how quickly blacks were inserted into British movies, as if they had been there all along.

    I wish TV and movies were fed into a computer where we could get some equivalent to Ngrams in books. It would be interesting to see when blacks started to be inserted into historical dramas in each region. Population thresholds.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @SafeNow
  33. Passer by says:
    @Johnplywood

    Eastern Europeans have higher digit ratios

    No, only the women in EE have. Do not waste other people’s time if you don’t know what are you talking about.

    It has nothing to do with “dimorphism”

    There is bigger difference between men and women in EE, bimbo. Start reading the relevant literature and do not waste other people’s time.

    • Replies: @Johnplywood
  34. @Felix Keverich

    Nik and Luka won’t be doing the Russian shakedown ever again. Pashinyan is looking for any foreign investment he can get. The Tax and Customs Union between Russia and Belarus will be announced this autumn. Further economic integration will follow. Russian businesses in Belarus can look forward to much more regular and predictable futures

  35. @Mr. Hack

    Could you explain, please. The Anschluss occurred in 1938, between Germany and Austria. What is this 1939 Czech “Anschluss” to which you are referring ?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  36. Mr. Hack says:
    @Verymuchalive

    “the swift takeover of the Sudetenland by the Third Reich under threat of war.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_occupation_of_Czechoslovakia

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  37. @Confused millennial

    I didn’t notice a change after GF; it’s been like that for a while.

  38. @Confused millennial

    There are two angles here:

    The first is a straightforward propaganda aspect, “This is the world we want, or at least want you to want to have. DIE.”

    The second is that, even though colored demographics are increasing over time, they are actually appealing specifically to the “good white” population. They expect good whites by and large to be their most important customers, and the only ones it’s even respectable and legal to appeal to. The bad whites of means are expected to continue purchasing regardless, and in line with the political drive, will not be missed.

    Your views are correct in a decent world. This is not a decent world currently.

  39. SafeNow says:
    @songbird

    “It would be interesting to see when blacks started to be inserted into historical dramas in each region.”

    Good point. But a refinement is that very often the black is “inserted” in a way such that character’s proficiency level is the highest. Thus, in a courtroom scene, the black judge indulges the mediocrity of the white attorney, before finally losing patience and telling him he’s on a short leash with this dubious line of questioning. Or the clever black sonar operator figures-out what’s happening (Red October) or, the black mathematician (The Martian) has the insight that evaded everyone else.

    Life imitates art, as they say, and many people, especially children, will assume that blackness is a meritocracy credential.

    • Agree: songbird
  40. @Mr. Hack

    It may not be the Anschluss, but, what the hell, people have been playing fast and loose with terminology for years.
    I’m surprised you’re not referring to the 2014 Russia-Crimea reunification as the Crimean Anschluss. What’s up with you Ukies, you’ve definitely missed a trick here!

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  41. @Felix Keverich

    Someone like Sberbank for example: apparently Russia’s main state-run bank appointed this person as its “brand ambassador.”

    Based.

  42. inertial says:

    You never explained how exactly Vkusvill jumped the shark. I am not sure you understand what the expression means.

    “Go woke, go broke” used to work great and probably would still work under the normal circumstances. In the situation when woke is essentially being imposed by the state it obviously stops working, at least in the short term. We’ll see how this will play out in the long run.

    • Agree: Verymuchalive
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  43. @inertial

    Disney went woke with the new Star Wars trilogy and the other movies, and they were pretty successful, their takeover of the thing is now probably already showing profits. Movies like the Avengers MDXD keep making tons of money despite having gone woke a long time ago. Apparently people don’t care about wokeness in the movies. But then how much do they care if an otherwise good product is advertised with some black man – white woman couple or some homosexuals? Coca Cola was advertising with some gay couple in supposedly based Hungary, did they lose any money as a result? I doubt it. They even got some extra publicity out of it.

    The only way going woke could result in going broke if they really started to depend on African American talent for engineering or similar, but they usually circumvent it in some clever ways, like appointing four extra African American diversity VPs offsetting the twenty white and and Asian American engineers to keep the black percentage high. Diversity is just a cost of business, usually cheaper than a higher corporate income tax would be.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @inertial
  44. songbird says:
    @reiner Tor

    Disney maintains its status through a quasi-monopoly. In 2019, including Fox, their box office was 38% of the US film market. The closest competitor was 13.8%. Considering legal and political factors, it may be fundamentally impossible for a major studio or distributor in the Anglosphere to be non-woke.

    And no outside player seems to be attempting to compete in that market. I’d like to see China and Russia cooperate in trying to foster a non-woke competitor to Hollywood. It is not necessarily something that would require a lot of money – think Hallmark movies, but I don’t think they perceive wokeness as the geopolitical cancer and powerful strategic threat that I believe it is.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    , @Bill
  45. @songbird

    but I don’t think they perceive wokeness as the geopolitical cancer and powerful strategic threat

    Just a thought: China and Russia see wokeness as a cancer that is terminal for the US. Therefore, they see their interest in not trying to counteract it on the American soil (basically, when you see you see your enemy committing suicide, do not interfere). They don’t see it as a geopolitical threat to them for the simple reason that their countries are relatively unaffected by this malaise.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Xi-jinping
  46. 216 says: • Website
    @Confused millennial

    In the UK if you watch adverts the majority of them have started to feature black people in every single one this all happened after George Floyd and blm

    The thing is black people are only about 3%of the population 1.9 million
    There are other ethnic groups in the UK who are largely ignored and they don’t complain and get on with life

    Part of this is a simple importation of the US racial discourse. Part of it is presumably pursuing the Anglophone markets in Africa.

    And the other part is the subversive element, browbeating the natives.

  47. Mr. Hack says:
    @Verymuchalive

    I’m surprised you’re not referring to the 2014 Russia-Crimea reunification as the Crimean Anschluss.

    That’s exactly what I was trying to do, but it looks like I came up short as my analogy used “fast and loose terminology”. Oh well, back to the drawing board 🙂

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  48. @Mr. Hack

    Sorry for being so obtuse. Instead of Crimean reunification/annexation, we can just call it the Crimean Anschluss. The word Anschluss is properly translated as “joinder,” “connection,” “unification,” or “political union.”
    It sounds as neutral a term as any.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
  49. songbird says:
    @AnonfromTN

    Just a thought: China and Russia see wokeness as a cancer that is terminal for the US.

    That is the way that they seem to act.

    But, to me, it seems like short-term thinking. Historically, both countries seem to have been powerfully negatively affected by a foreign ideology, and that was when international connections were much weaker than they are now. In addition, a lot of the current antagonism of the US towards Russia and China seems to come from wokeness, or at least to be exacerbated by it.

    Wokeness seems to have Russia and China in the crosshairs. It controls a lot of resources and even intelligence agencies. Hollywood seems to do well in both countries. Fast and Furious (the quintessential diversity series) is popular in both places.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  50. @Passer by

    LOL – typical feminine Slav response.

    There is no gender difference in digit ratio between men and women in Eastern Europe and you cannot cite a single source to the contrary. Both men and women have the same feminized digit ratio in Eastern Europe.

    • Replies: @Passer by
  51. inertial says:
    @reiner Tor

    Let’s define the woke. First, there is black stuff. Well, American whites genuinely like black people and love to see more of them in their entertainment. This goes back to at least 1920s. The angrier blacks get, the cuter whites think they are. So the black-related woke stuff is going to continue but only in areas adjacent to entertainment.

    Then there is the gay stuff. My impression is that no one asked for it. Now, Hollyweird perverts included subtle gay propaganda into various entertainment, including kids shows, for a long time. For example, did you hear that Teletubbies were gay? When my son was small I used to watch a lot of Teletubbies with him. Of course they were gay.

    But the overt gay stuff (for the mainstream audience) always bombed. For example, there was this show 15-20 years ago that was the most popular show on TV (I didn’t watch it and can’t be bothered to remember how it was called.) In one episode of that show they inserted a lesbian kiss. There weren’t that many protests but the show’s ratings instantly cratered and soon it was canceled. Then they tried it with another show and the same thing happened.

    But if there are gays in every show now, what can you do?

    One silver lining in this situation is that the old-style covert gay propaganda has been replaced with the overt in-your-face one (or at least that’s my impression.) People didn’t protest the covert propaganda, either because they didn’t notice it, or because thought it wasn’t so bad. Now that they are being hit over the head with it, they notice.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Triteleia Laxa
  52. Max Payne says:

    In my observations, the saying “Go woke, go broke” is largely rightoid cope.

    Thats what happens when you burn time on twitter, your observations become wrong. Don’t fall for the bots.

    Lets take the iconic example of Star Wars:

    Taking ticket price inflation into account, the original 1977 Star Wars film is still the most successful one. While at the time “A New Hope” generated $776 million in worldwide box office earnings, that translates to more than $3 billion in today’s ticket prices.

    Note that was before the CCP allowed the Chinese to watch movies.

    Star Wars today under Kathleen Kennedy and her “the force is female”:

    Star Wars: Episode VII – The Force Awakens made $936,662,225 (as of 2020; USD, not Kroons), first Disney Star Wars

    Star Wars: Episode VIII – The Last Jedi
    $620,181,382
    -$310mil from the last movie. I guess those billion Chinamen didn’t like the little interracial kiss at the end.

    The latest SW movie did worse, I didn’t even waste bandwidth pirating it for free…

    Blizzard went woke… Now its working on a Diablo 2 remaster (hot) because everything from WoW onwards is garbage shit full of woke faggotry (Blizzard merged with Activision shortly after going woke, true story).

    EA went woke with Mass Effect Andromeda. To revive this great IP EA had to release Mass Effect 1-3 remastered because woke did not work. Commander Shepard is male, soldier, and Germanic looking (default face is Mark Vanderloo)

    Not a dick shark SJW

    New super woke Star Trek Discovery only had 6000 (yes six thousand) subscribers watching season 3. CBS is known to use twitter bots to induce hype.

    But hey in your world Woke != Broke. The new 007 movie with a black female lead should be a smash success.

    Shame they can’t find anyone willing to buy the new James Bond film to recoup $400mil production. I wonder why….

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  53. songbird says:
    @inertial

    Well, American whites genuinely like black people and love to see more of them in their entertainment. This goes back to at least 1920s.

    I think it would be truer to say that Americans liked to see white people put shoe polish on their faces and ape blacks (The Jazz Singer, 1927), or to hear them humorously mimic black voices on the radio (Amos ‘n’ Andy, 1928-1960).

  54. @inertial

    For example, did you hear that Teletubbies were gay? When my son was small I used to watch a lot of Teletubbies with him. Of course they were gay.

    In what way? I assume they weren’t sexualised.

    • Replies: @inertial
  55. inertial says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    It’s been a while ago and I don’t remember the full catalogue of what they did but here is one example. There were four Teletubbies, two male and two female. Each had an attribute, a “favorite thing” that they carried everywhere. The favorite things for female Tubbies were a ball and a scooter and for the males it was a hat and a purse.

    That was obviously not a random choice.

  56. @Svevlad

    You just need to fire the management and/or PR, no need to liquidate their business.

    Only works if you already have the final say in business decisions.

  57. Pop culture going woke is a boon for the types who have always deemed pop culture to be morally subversive, lots of commenters here included. Alienating normies who still vaguely a sense of morality in them. “Wokeness” is just the latest label for that.

    (There is some good sense in avoiding woke works: they are very often mediocre and resort to virtue signaling for appealing to the cultural establishment. But some gems are going to be buried along with the trash, if there are.)

    Down the road, since most of cultural establishment is turning woke, it will feed into the fragmentation and tribalization of socio-cultural and economic worldviews (what I call the “Domestic Bifurcation”). Good riddance to American cultural hegemony.

  58. @Max Payne

    This is just a function of Hollywood relying on China for a significant part of its revenues and the Chinese not worshipping Blacks like Westerners do.

    Games are a significant exception but its really more to do with SJW-heavy games tending to just be shit on objective merits IMO.

    The counter-example is the MSM, which has seen a massive renaissance from near death before the Trump era as plebbitors heavily agitated & triggered by Trump, bought MSM subscriptions in droves to “protect journalism”.

  59. iffen says:

    before the Trump era as plebbitors heavily agitated & triggered by Trump, bought MSM subscriptions in droves to “protect journalism”.

    Trump as agent provocateur for MSM profits. Who would have thunk it?

  60. Dreadilk says:

    Go woke go broke is not a meme. Comics, books, NFL and NBA are all suffering from that.

    Edit:Also boy scouts of America.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    , @Wency
  61. @Dreadilk

    The Oscars too.

    We are dealing with an across-the-board collapse in the reception of legacy pop culture that dovetails collapse in institutional trust. But we aren’t at the worst yet, we will see entire genres, types of media, sports being wiped out. Because a new TradCon culture need to be born.

  62. Wency says:
    @Dreadilk

    Well importantly, none of those things are broke (except Boy Scouts, and if Wokeness was their only problem, they probably wouldn’t be broke either). NFL viewership has stabilized at a level around 15% below its peak — not like it’s down 90%. 15% is a little more than just a tithe to Wokeness, a perfectly affordable loss in a multibillion dollar industry.

    The meme would be more accurate if it was “Go Woke, maybe make slightly fewer gigabucks than you would otherwise, if your product is explicitly aimed at normal white men.”

    Within the US, I’d put Mainline Protestant churches in the same category as the Boy Scouts — also collapsing, but for a lot more reasons than modern Wokeness — they’ve been declining for 50 years.

    • Replies: @Dreadilk
  63. Passer by says:
    @Johnplywood

    There is no gender difference in digit ratio between men and women in Eastern Europe

    This is not a place for children. Go back to the kindergarten and don’t bother the adults.

    cannot cite a single source to the contrary

    A source was cited, it is not my problem that you are either minor or retarded.

  64. Literally no source was cited that day by this fucking eunuch, “Passer by”. It’s honestly saddening that he would even continue to try to salvage his obvious cope after getting caught red handed like the little femmyshit he is.

    • Replies: @Passer by
  65. @Caspar von Everec

    Good- not good, great catalogue of possibilities.

  66. I still don’t know why normal homosexuals, who detest this degenerate exhibitionism, don’t distance themselves from this Sodom & Gomorrah …

    • Replies: @Wency
  67. One thing more, nothing to do with Putin and Russia- there is, among lesbians, some pathological anti-male current, the fear & loathing of masculinity (gays, on the other hand, like female company). Of course, we sometimes fantasize about lesbians- don’t ascribe this just to modern porn, it is very prominent in European erotic literature in past 5 or more centuries.

    Just..

    [MORE]

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/05/31/lesbian-couple-found-guilty-of-murdering-two-year-old-son/

    Brazilian mother and lesbian lover ‘tore off nine-year-old’s penis’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7146517/Brazilian-mother-27-lesbian-lover-28-tore-nine-year-old-sons-penis.html

    Baltimore Lesbian Couple Charged with Killing 4-Year-Old Son

    https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2019/08/04/baltimore-lesbian-couple-charged-with-killing-4-year-old-son-found-dead-in-dumpster/

    Lesbian Kills Daughter, Blames Bible Sermon After Partner Breaks Up With Her

    https://www.advocate.com/crime/2014/05/31/lesbian-kills-daughter-blames-bible-sermon-after-partner-breaks-her

    Details Revealed About Lesbian Couple’s Horrific Abuse Of Their 5-Year-Old Son That Caused Two Strokes And Broken Bones

    https://www.yourtango.com/2017306840/details-oklahoma-lesbian-couple-child-abuse-son-jail-duct-tape

    Lesbians convicted of child abuse lose appeal (14753)

    https://www.advocate.com/news/2005/01/08/lesbians-convicted-child-abuse-lose-appeal-14753

    Miami mom is on trial a third time for the torture and murder of ‘Baby Lollipops’

    Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article187949979.html#storylink=cpy

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article187949979.html

    Murder charge mother ‘failed’ son Liam

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-36342256

    Huff-Puff lies, as ever:

    Child Abuse Rate At Zero Percent In Lesbian Households, New Report Finds

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lesbians-child-abuse-0-percent_n_781624

    The hatred of men is a theme in the lesbian radical feminist community. From Emily McComb’s

    https://dailycaller.com/2017/12/29/huffington-post-editor-reveals-new-years-resolution-kill-all-men/

    So- why do have sons? Not adopted? Mother nature is a wise woman ….

    https://albertmohler.com/2004/12/14/lesbians-raising-sons-got-a-problem-with-that

    So- why do have sons? Not adopted? Mother nature is a wise woman ….

    In her introduction, Jess Wells explains that the whole issue of lesbians raising sons is due to a biological circumstance. “A socially and biologically driven phenomenon is producing a disproportionate number of male children within the current lesbian baby boom. Lesbians who choose to undergo donor insemination now have at least a 65 percent chance of bearing a son.” Wells went on to explain why this is so. She argues that male sperm weigh less than female sperm and therefore swim faster and are more likely to reach the egg ahead of sperm without a Y chromosome. The disproportionate number of boys born to lesbian mothers is thus, at least in part, an ironic slap in the face from an unforgiving biological fact.

    Morgan and her partner also worked to create a feminist environment in which their son would be raised. “We tried to offer alternatives to the patriarchal ‘norms.’ We celebrated Wiccan holidays with much pomp, while giving a superficial nod to Christmas and Hanukkah. He was offered–and played with–dolls and tea sets as well as with fire trucks and tractors.”

    An even more extreme vision of lesbian motherhood and sons was related by Ruthann Robson as she explained the response of lesbian separatists to the birth of her son. Having been separatists themselves, they were puzzled by how they would deal with this baby boy. “What were two dykes going to do with this miniature emissary from the patriarchy who invaded our lives? One of us would be the one to give him a bath every night. The other one would be telling bedtime stories.”

    In her own chapter, Jess Wells insisted that she had done everything within her power to avoid giving birth to a son. “How had this happened? I had paid to have the sperm sex-selected. The sperm had been made to swim for hours, and the fastest swimmers–the ‘male’ sperm–had been poured down the sink.”

    “I had been planning on a girl,” Wells remembered. “It was essential that I have a girl.” When she was told that her womb contained a boy, she was “profoundly disappointed.” As an ardent opponent of “male privilege, patriarchy, and male culture,” Wells didn’t want anything to do with raising a boy.

    Eventually, she was reconciled to the fact that her child was a boy and decided this could be a positive experience. “My son cannot take me away from the struggle for women’s rights, nor can he force me to take an interest in anything that I don’t deem interesting. He cannot be my oppressor because he is my child, and he cannot be a second chance to relive my life because he has his own life. He and I will explore each other’s cultures, sharing what we can and respecting what we can’t . . . Both of us, respecting each other’s sovereignty, can rejoice in our foreignness and celebrate our diversity.

    The sound of me puking …..

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  68. Wency says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “Detest” sounds like too strong a word — I’d go with “aren’t into”. Most people aren’t too inclined to criticize their own side and are never beloved when they do so — just look at how much love David French gets on Unz.com and related spaces. Or how Scott Alexander was almost destroyed by his fellow leftists. And most leftists are like Kerensky — they perpetually fear the ever-more-improbable counter-revolution and could never imagine a real danger to their own left.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  69. @Wency

    Personal experiences don’t mean much, but a few gays I know all feel disgust for these parades. Some are married, some live with their male partners- but they loathe this display of degeneracy, as well as “gay subculture”.

  70. Dreadilk says:
    @Wency

    It is all the same at different time lines. Will they go fully broke or get a new audience time will tell. I can tell they won’t have much of a white male audience at some point.

    Once an institution stops performing its main function it colapses into irrelevance. Irrelevance as it is relevant to us. I could care less who is at tenting boy scouts troops these days.

    • Replies: @Wency
  71. Passer by says:
    @Johnplywood

    Yeah, this isn’t the Kindergarten, where children can not read yet. If you can’t find it in the comments due to your own stupidity its not my problem. I’m not your parent, to feed you in the mouth.

  72. Wency says:
    @Dreadilk

    I can tell they won’t have much of a white male audience at some point.

    But the audience they lost is mostly Trumpist Boomers and Gen-Xers. Millennials and Gen Z don’t object so strongly to this stuff, so they only lose their audience if they push the Wokeness down their audience’s throats faster than that audience can come to terms with swallowing it. For now, the situation looks stable.

    Though I do wonder if TV sports have peaked for technological reasons — the competition with video games and YouTube/streaming services is real, especially for those who grew up with them. My friend has a 12-year-old boy that’s an active and seemingly popular athlete but he has very little interest in watching sports on TV. At most, he’ll watch highlight videos on YouTube. I was never all that much of a sports fan, but I think I still watched more sports on TV at that age than he does.

  73. @Bardon Kaldian

    If a woman is a lesbian, this fact definitively shows that she has a mental disorder. The rest just illustrates other facets of that mental affliction, different in individual psychos.

    In moral terms, allowing lesbians or gays to raise children is equivalent to allowing schizophrenics or people with severe autism or bipolar disorder to raise children. The society that allows that is as sick as those psychos.

  74. @Mersaux

    Only low IQ rightoids think this is a bad omen. Smarter Russians will recognize that it’s actually Russian supremacism in disguise.

    Isn’t that right, AK?

    (I can understand if you’re apprehensive, but take the leap bro. There’s still time for you to cash in on the CRT bonanza. And your descendants will love you for it.)

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  75. @AnonfromTN

    Your assumption is that the RF has a coherent geopolitical policy. I’d agree with you if it was more authoritarian. But with Duma members squirrelling money away to the West and buying up beach properties in Miami, its hard to imagine they would oppose anything US given that it would hurt them first and foremost.

    This is strongely echoing the situation we found at the turn of the 19th century in Tsarist Russia when most of the Tsarist Duma was paid for by foreign powers and was no longer supporting Russian interests.

  76. @silviosilver

    Ah right, because you care so much about Russians and their welfare, LOL.

    Also LOL at Bashibuzuk’s LOL. The guy can’t help falling but endorse any rightoid, no matter how Russophobic, so long as he signals against me.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @Bashibuzuk
  77. @Anatoly Karlin

    My comment was intended to highlight the silliness of your CRT=white supremacy take, not to signal my caring about Russians.

    The biggest LOL in all of this is that you actually kept an offhand Twitter jibe of mine within easy reaching distance.

    (Btw, I may not care for Russian megalomania, but I certainly care for Russians at the racial level – though I take it that doesn’t impress you much.)

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  78. @Confused millennial

    With other races, basic terms of civility can be worked out and maintained without relentless fussing by officialdom. Living around blacks, however, is an endless ordeal, and therefore attitudes towards them require careful nursing, else the smallest incident can set off the dreaded chimpout.

  79. @silviosilver

    There is a thing called the Wayback Machine. And you’re correct, your opinions indeed don’t concern me much.

  80. @songbird

    Can’t agree with you more, dear. Well thought out and very pertinent. Keep up the good work.
    ( Why didn’t I think about it first. Because I’m getting old and try to avoid Wokeness completely. It is becoming harder, though. )

  81. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    His comment was very funny indeed. I would add to the LOL angle by suggesting that perhaps your Blog title should be changed from Russian Reaction to Transhumanist Perspective

    😆

    Re Russophobia, I wonder if you Anatoly are not the most prominent Russophobe here, given you are insisting that Russians voted again an alcoholic zombie to power in 1996. If Russians really voted Yeltsin to power again in 1996 then what does it signal about them as a people?

    You really believe Russians are that clueless ?

  82. @Bashibuzuk

    Good to know you endorse the fragmentation and foreign occupation of Russia just to one up those evil globalists.

    Not that surprising, but the confirmation is a useful data point.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  83. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I don’t endorse what silviosilver wrote in his humoristic Twitter reply, but I endorse his irony about your CRT = White Supremacy theory. This memetic theory of yours is a clever trolling of American normies, but there should be limits to even normie trolling (and I write this as a self acknowledged Troll).

    🙂

  84. @AnonfromTN

    Religious moralism says sodomy is a grave sin. Not mental illness, sin.

    If some of the secessionist localities aim for an explicitly Christian religious law (like Islam), they should round up the “homosexuals” and execute them.

    [MORE]

    I’m not a narrow-minded Christian who prosecutes anyone deviating from the moral norm. Taoism recognizes there is a bit of Yin in Yang and Yang in Yin. Homosexuals are also natural and they express the synthesis of the dichotomy well, but they cannot in the biological majority, since heterosexuality is more normative, also being the union of Yin and Yang, and only heterosexual marriage will leads to the only form of biological reproduction. The right attitude is tolerance without allowing their ideals to dominate the society (and that is where Globohomo is vicious).

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @AnonfromTN
  85. @Bashibuzuk

    your Blog title should be changed from Russian Reaction

    You can bet that he’s bitterly regretting calling it that, but to change the title now would be to cuck out too conspicuously. Give him a few years to complete his “transition” and I wouldn’t be shocked to see him confess his sins to the SPLC and hit the apology circuit with my-years-in-the-far-right speeches.

    • Troll: Anatoly Karlin
  86. @silviosilver

    This is typical rightoid projection, as apology tours are something that most often happens with low IQ rightoids like yourself, who are driven by animalistic hate and reject racism after making a Black friend or something like that.

    So far as my “Far Right” association goes, it’s overwhelmingly on account of my espousal of HBD, which is quite central to my perception of how the world works. I suppose it’s not absolutely impossible that I could come to believe that the main corpus of HBD and intelligence research, the single most replicated area of psychology, is false. For instance, by having a large rock drop on my head and becoming a rightoid.

  87. Bashibuzuk says:
    @silviosilver

    Transhumanism is the doctrine of adaptation, transformation and change. Human beings must go beyond their humanity to something completely different and supposedly “superior ” through mechanistic or bioengineering updates. Theirs is the doctrine of endless transition (hence the name of the ideology). How can be a doctrine of endless, dehumanizing transformation be tied into a reactionary attachment to blood, soil, ancient lore that represent the fundamentals of national identity of all well-bred nations ? A rhetorical question. Anatoly simply lives up to his Transhumanist inclinations (indoctrinations ?).

    https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=19880&p=1

    Unfortunately, I don’t think this bitter satire against Transhumanism, written by a man who was for a time among the advisors to RusFed president, will ever be translated into English. I also don’t think Russia will stand against Transhumanism and Globalization. It will follow the latest Western trends as it did so often in the last 400 years. And it will once more pay the price in Russian blood and tears so Russian elites can feel whole and worthy in the eyes of their international counterparts.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @utu
  88. @Anatoly Karlin

    LOL at capitalizing “Black.” Perhaps you’re farther along the path than I suspected. And sorry to disappoint you, but I already have black “friends” (blacks who think I am their friend, and whose company I do enjoy, but frankly if they all dropped dead tomorrow I would scarcely bat an eyelid). I’ve never pretended that friendship with individuals of their breed is an “impossibility,” only a self-defeating waste of time (unless done for tactical reasons, as in my case).

    It’s quite funny how defensive you’re already getting about your “far right associations,” even though I only used that phrase in jest and you’re only talking among people who couldn’t care less about it even if it were true. (“The wicked flee when no man pursueth.”) Anyway, cucking out has nothing to do with changing your actual beliefs, only the beliefs that you present to the world. There’d be nothing preventing you from lying through your teeth about the reasons why you “changed” your views.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Mr. Hack
  89. @silviosilver

    No, it’s capitalizing “Black” while intentionally lower casing “white” that is an SJW tell. So far as I can recall my rule of thumb has been to capitalize all races.

    Obviously I disagree with your insinuations, and indeed, my entire blogging career is an object lesson on what not to do if one is serious about grifting (i.e. selling “comfort food” to NPCs of whichever ideological hue). Abandoning that cachet, whatever it is worth, in return for scraps, scraps that are unlikely to even materialize (https://www.unz.com/akarlin/pro-tip-never-cuck/), from some SJW activist groups based in a country where I don’t even live now would seem like a very strange and irrational decision. You are, of course, free to disagree, but then that begs the question of why you would waste your time on my blog and potentially put yourself in a compromising position when I do go to the SPLC and ADL.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  90. Mr. Hack says:
    @silviosilver

    blacks who think I am their friend, and whose company I do enjoy, but frankly if they all dropped dead tomorrow I would scarcely bat an eyelid). I’ve never pretended that friendship with individuals of their breed is an “impossibility,” only a self-defeating waste of time (unless done for tactical reasons, as in my case).

    “tactical reasons”? Sounds much more like the heights of lunacy and hypocrisy to me.

    • Agree: AaronB, Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @silviosilver
  91. @Anatoly Karlin

    Okay, enough of this. I’m obviously (half) trolling you. I do think you regret some of the choices you made – at the very least, some of the online company you’ve attracted – but it’s your life and your right to decide on that.

    It would be nice if you stopped characterizing me as anti-Russian though. Wariness about the ethnonationalism of powerful countries is pretty normal, but even so, aside from the whole Ukraine thing, I still support Russia on major issues like: borders – fully support; birth rates – fully support; Crimea – fully support; showdown with America – fully support; Russian nationality law – fully support. (I know it’s not as good as the Israeli nationality law, but sometimes we unchosen children of lesser gods have to take what we can get.) Those are hardly positions commensurate with being a staunch Russophobe.

  92. @Mr. Hack

    I’m not so sure it’s hypocritical, but if it is, that is perfectly compatible with tactical reasons. What exactly is so lunatic about it? It’s not as if I go out of my way to spend any time with them. But they happen to fairly regularly show up at places I like to go, so if they’re friendly to me, it simply makes sense to be friendly back.

    The friendliness isn’t even completely insincere on my part. They actually are fun dudes to hang out with (for a while). I don’t have enough of the “animalistic hate” AK accuses me of harboring to outright hate them just for being black. The most I can muster is an indifference towards them, which is pretty easy because, “fun” as they are, there is no real connection there, and because my racial political objectives are important enough to me.

    (Open your eyes, you damnable christuck. There will soon be four billion of these black fuckers crawling over the surface of the planet. Africa will not contain them. I can hardly think of a crueler, more despicable fate than being racially crowded out by negroids. Ineffectual as blog comments are, if that fate is to be avoided, the case for avoiding it should be made as early as possible – if for no other reason than to clear out cucks like you whose political horizon runs into a brick wall at “muh Ukraine.”)

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  93. utu says:
    @Bashibuzuk

    A propos making a career in Russia. Some time ago you have pointed me to the film Generation P which I liked very much. So I did some googling and to my surprise one guy whom I knew about 20 or so years ago was one of the producers of the film and he also worked on funding for the next film based on Pelvin’s novel. Anyway he made quite a career though I am not surprised. I found him very impressive when I was acquainted with him. He comes from the academic elite of the USSR. I also knew a son of one of Arzamas-16 directors who frequently traveled to the US when the Soviet nukes were being utilized in Amarillo, Texas but he was not that impressive though he knew computational quantum chemistry pretty well.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
  94. Mr. Hack says:
    @silviosilver

    Why do you hang out at venues where these “B.F.ers” hang out? You must already live in a neighborhood where they abound. 🙂

    Why don’t you be honest and let them know how you really feel about them?

    People who have Christ in their hearts are by definition not “damnable”. It’s guys like you who harbor hatred to other human being that are living on the precipice to damnation.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  95. Bashibuzuk says:
    @utu

    the next film based on Pelvin’s novel

    They used an ICO to finance the movie, which I find extremely clever and innovative.

    http://bablos.com/

    Russia is full of very able and creative people. I have met very talented people in my own professional field. Financial and organizational aspects are the limiting factor there, not intellectual abilities.

    • Agree: utu
  96. songbird says:
    @Yellowface Anon

    The only country that I know that tolerates gays and is not totally pozzed is Japan. And for all I know, gays may be in the vanguard of pozzing Japan now (there are increasing signs of poz), with only some threshold of diversity necessary to be crossed before it goes nuclear.

    Another intriguing possibility is that HBD means that Japanese gays are in some way less malignant. Perhaps, less verbal, less narcissistic, or less sex-obsessed. But I suspect that the Chinese have the right instincts, on cracking down on it.

    As a Westerner, the solution that I’d like to try would be to exile the hyper-sodomites (let’s say, the top 10%), as well as the biggest narcissists on social media, to some closed-off city in Africa. It would be a paradise for them, and naturally, there would be space available for more exiles, as time progressed. Of course, that is very pie-in the-sky, and politically unlikely.

    • Replies: @Wency
  97. @Mr. Hack

    Full of that Christian love that mocks people for being too poor to avoid the black plague, I see.

    But actually, where I live, I’d be honestly surprised if there was even one family within a 2 mile radius. I certainly never see blacks in the thronging popular district at lunch hour. (It’s cucks like you, not “haters” like me, that threaten to ruin these paradises.) I travel over an hour to the city to some favorite night spots, which is where I typically encounter my black “friends.”

    I never said there were many blacks in these places; in fact, I doubt there are ever more than 10-15 of them in the establishment at any one time (prob not the same 10-15). But even that is “too many” in my book, frankly. Other races I can handle even at quite hefty percentages, but it only takes a handful of blacks to get me apprehensive and resentful. Nevertheless, some of them have been quite friendly with me, so I’ve been willing to be friendly back. What would I have to gain from telling them what I really think?

    Also, if some of them have been friendly, others have certainly not. Some have been unaccountably rude and hostile. I wonder what they think of my race. Actually, I don’t really have to wonder. One of them, some big brutish specimen, once told me fairly aggressively (as far as I could make out, his accent was difficult) that he didn’t like white people, but apparently I was “okay with him,” and he ended up shaking my hand. It only takes a few of these encounters to start thinking that you’re better off apart from these people – the farther and more securely apart the better. No amount of cuckstained moral persuasion will ever make me change my mind about that.

  98. Wency says:
    @songbird

    Yeah, I continue to believe that the Old Testament was right about homosexuality. If homosexuality isn’t at least somewhat persecuted, if it is treated as an equally legitimate option to marriage with children, then ruin is not far behind. Of course, “persecution” can mean many things, and in some societies, said persecution still allowed an outlet for it — most commonly, certain well-defined forms of pederasty pursued by men with wives and children.

    One clue to this fact is the in-built disgust response to male acts of homosexuality. On the surface, you would think the rational, evolved human response would be to regard gay men as harmless, to in fact encourage all your male competition to go gay so that you can have a monopoly on the women, but for some reason the evolved, natural response is the opposite and this can only ever be partially overcome with intense pro-gay propagandization. Why is this?

    My best guess is that, while all forms of sexual immorality are contagious and somewhat damaging to family life, open homosexuality is the most so. As soon as it’s deemed socially acceptable within a tribe or community to live a life without family or children, dedicated purely to solipsistic sexual fulfillment, then this affects relations even between the majority of men and women who possess little to no same-sex attraction, and social ruin isn’t far behind.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @dfordoom
  99. Russia turned democratic and liberal capitalist under pressure from the West and the West is still hostile to it and hates it, and wants to break it up and steal its resources. If Russia went full homo nothing would change, the West would still be hostile to it.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  100. @Anatoly Karlin

    Widespread easy genetic alteration of intelligence but limited by a ceiling of some sort, seems like a more likely avenue of leaving the HBD camp in the future.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  101. @Daniel Chieh

    Well, sure, a world with widespread radical IQ augmentation will be one where many traditional categories of thinking will become obsolete. HBD as a predictive tool can certainly be made significantly obsolete by it. Moreover, if you develop the ability to manipulate a strong polygenic trait like intelligence, you will be able to change many other things too. At that point, race may indeed become quite meaningless.

    We’ll see if/when we get there.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  102. @Yellowface Anon

    As far as religions go, I can only say that there are too many gods to take them seriously.

    The right attitude is tolerance without allowing their ideals to dominate the society (and that is where Globohomo is vicious).

    Now, this I agree with 100%

  103. Bill says:
    @Confused millennial

    It’s an ersatz religion. Most Catholics aren’t nuns or priests, either. Religion, like gravity, isn’t optional.

  104. Bill says:
    @songbird

    Hallmark movies are just a previous iteration of woke. Love conquers all (especially tradition, bigotry, religion, class, etc)

    • Replies: @songbird
  105. songbird says:
    @Wency

    One clue to this fact is the in-built disgust response to male acts of homosexuality.

    Disgust for the opposite sex seems natural at a young age, until sex hormones rewire us, as puberty strikes.

    Some theorize that women are evolved to have more sexual fluidity, on a situational basis. That it was somehow adaptive. Maybe, related to polygamy, or else women supporting each other, and their children after the husband died. Presumably, the situation was never the same with men, maybe, because they had higher mortality due to war or hunting and thus an easier time acquiring a new wife. Of course, male homosexuality is extra disgusting, for hygienic reasons, so maybe the theory is bunk.

    My best guess is that, while all forms of sexual immorality are contagious and somewhat damaging to family life, open homosexuality is the most so.

    What is remarkable is how many lesbians and gays report having been molested in their youth. Maybe, the adult was picking up on early gay signals, or some other mental weakness?

    But I agree with your general premiss and support censorship.

    • Replies: @Wency
    , @dfordoom
    , @reiner Tor
  106. songbird says:
    @Bill

    Well, I admit I’ve never watched them, but I only meant in the sense of low budget stories that please women.

    How to create morally hygienic romance stories is an interesting and highly pertinent question for nationalists. Thinking it over, the popular movies that I have seen in the past with romantic plots or subplots were often problematic. For example, the movie Sixteen Candles was pretty laughable, from what I can recall of it.

    I suggest committees study the problem and come up with guidelines. A few scattered thoughts:

    -don’t romanticize cities (fertility sinks) or materialism
    -happy ending is kids (or have the happy family as background characters, in subsequent movie in the series)
    -train men subliminally on how to approach women

    • Agree: Bill, reiner Tor
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  107. Wency says:
    @songbird

    Disgust for the opposite sex seems natural at a young age, until sex hormones rewire us, as puberty strikes.

    I wonder at this — I remember as a young boy having absolutely zero interest in hanging around girls my own age. They shared none of my interests, and the things that interested them actively repulsed me. But from my earliest memories I always, always admired women in their swimsuits at the pool. I didn’t have any idea what I wanted to do to them, but I knew I wanted to look at them. I still don’t really know how normal this is, but I often feel I have clearer memories of being a young child (as young as 3) than most people do.

    What is remarkable is how many lesbians and gays report having been molested in their youth. Maybe, the adult was picking up on early gay signals, or some other mental weakness?

    I can imagine a whole bunch of factors. I think the older you are, the more a “molestation” situation was at least somewhat within your control, the more curious or confused you probably were already. I’d be curious how correlated past abuse is with male homosexuality when we’re talking about abuse of those younger than, say, 8, as opposed to the abuse of teenagers. Though, to be sure, I still condemn the abuse of teenagers.

    For women, there’s often an element of misandry at play in the decision to go lesbian (which, as you noted, is a more fluid decision), and abuse at the hands of a man would be an obvious reason for such misandry.

  108. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Wency

    My best guess is that, while all forms of sexual immorality are contagious and somewhat damaging to family life, open homosexuality is the most so.

    The best compromise in the case of all deviant sexualities would seem to be tolerance, as long as they remain discreet about it. I think you could make a pretty good argument that homosexuals and lesbians did society no harm at all in the days when they remained in the closet. It’s not even necessary for them to be secretive about their proclivities, as long as they’re not too blatant.

    In other words, until around 1970 homosexuality was entirely harmless.

    The old-fashioned liberal idea that what consenting adults do in their own bedrooms is nobody’s business but theirs and should be perfectly legal looks more and more like a sane sensible approach.

    But today we live in a society when every single thing that people do, whether in the bedroom or out of it, is considered to be everybody else’s business.

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon
  109. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AnonfromTN

    If a woman is a lesbian, this fact definitively shows that she has a mental disorder.

    Not necessarily. It’s certainly true that back in the 1970s lesbianism became something that attracted a lot of women with mental disorders. These days women with mental disorders are more likely to be attracted to stuff like identifying as non gender binary.

    But I’m not convinced that all lesbians suffer from mental disorders. The fact is that there are two very distinct and mostly unrelated categories of lesbian. The first group comprises a very small minority of women who want to have sexual and romantic relationships with other women. The second group (which today outnumbers the first group by a big margin) comprises women who are mentally unstable or emotionally damaged or social misfits who become political extremists. They see lesbianism as a way of dealing with their personal problems or satisfying their taste for political fanaticism. For these women lesbianism usually makes their problems worse and they become a social menace.

    I’ve known a number of lesbians in the first category and they’re often quite pleasant and well-adjusted. You don’t notice them so much these days because they’re outnumbered by the political fanatics and the crazies trying to work through their mental health issues.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  110. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Russia turned democratic and liberal capitalist under pressure from the West and the West is still hostile to it and hates it, and wants to break it up and steal its resources. If Russia went full homo nothing would change, the West would still be hostile to it.

    The US will never ever tolerate the existence of any real or potential economic or geopolitical rival.

    The same applies to China. If the Chinese went liberal democratic and became fully pozzed the US would still be seeking to destroy them.

    Without US pressure most western countries would have come to a sensible sane working relationship with both Russia and China.

    The exceptions are Britain and Australia, which will always toady to the Americans even if they’re not forced to do so.

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
  111. @dfordoom

    Basically, you are talking about two kinds of mental disorders. The first kind has a mild disorder that only affects their sexual preference, but are otherwise normal humans. The second are psychos in many ways. Some of that second category likely had an unfortunate relationship with a male, who was either abusive, or could not satisfy them sexually (i.e., was useless). Others are just unhinged psychos with political activism driven by a deep-seated inferiority complex. That type is represented among males, too.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  112. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    What is remarkable is how many lesbians and gays report having been molested in their youth.

    I think it’s worth being very sceptical about this. There are huge payoffs from claiming to have been molested. You instantly double your Victim Points. I’m sure there are some who were abused, some who weren’t, and there are probably others who have convinced themselves that they were abused because it’s something they want to believe.

    The big payoff is that it means that people who convinces themselves of this no longer have to take any responsibility for poor lifestyle choices. They have a Get Out of Jail Free Card. “My messed-up life is totally not my fault.”

    But I agree with your general premiss and support censorship.

    Censorship is a difficult issue. I personally think the dangers of censorship vastly outweigh the benefits. Once you accept the idea of censorship then you’ve abandoned freedom of speech, and I think that’s a choice that you always end up regretting.

  113. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    How to create morally hygienic romance stories is an interesting and highly pertinent question for nationalists. Thinking it over, the popular movies that I have seen in the past with romantic plots or subplots were often problematic. For example, the movie Sixteen Candles was pretty laughable, from what I can recall of it.

    I suggest committees study the problem and come up with guidelines. A few scattered thoughts:

    -don’t romanticize cities (fertility sinks) or materialism
    -happy ending is kids (or have the happy family as background characters, in subsequent movie in the series)

    Guidelines? Are you intending for these guidelines to be enforced somehow? If so, how? Are we to have government committees deciding what content is allowed? Or will the guidelines be enforced by some species of quasi-governmental authority? Do we want to go down that path? Do we want to have People’s Commissars for Wholesome Entertainment?

    Do we want to go back to something like the Hollywood Production Code, under which the Hollywood studios laid down rules as to what we were allowed to see? Do we want private corporations given even more power to control what we can see, or do we want the government doing this, or do we want shadowy totally unaccountable committees deciding what we’re allowed to see?

    It’s all very well to say “we should have more wholesome movies” but actually achieving such an objective without possibly setting up a potentially sinister apparatus of cultural control isn’t so easy.

    I’m inclined to think that a better way of achieving the objective would be by smashing the media monopolies and oligopolies, thus creating spaces in which alternative entertainment (including wholesome entertainment) would have a better chance of thriving.

    You also have to ask yourself if you want to go as far as coercing people into watching the kind of entertainment that you think they should be watching. That would mean getting into the propaganda business.

    • Replies: @songbird
  114. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AnonfromTN

    Basically, you are talking about two kinds of mental disorders. The first kind has a mild disorder that only affects their sexual preference, but are otherwise normal humans.

    More or less. I’d even be reluctant to call it a mental disorder. Human sexuality is very poorly understood and still somewhat mysterious. That applies even more to female sexuality. Female sexuality does seem to be a kind of continuum. The women I’ve known who fall into the “they’re lesbians because they want to have sex with women” category usually do seem to feel some sexual attraction towards men, are often perfectly capable of having satisfying sex with men and some of them do so from time to time. They just prefer women. And that preference can change over time.

    I’m not sure that you can call any female sexual preference a disorder. Women just vary in their sexual tastes. And they vary in the degree of romantic attraction they feel towards women compared to men.

    These kinds of lesbians, in my experience, are perfectly comfortable with their femaleness.

    The second are psychos in many ways.

    Very much so. The “they’re lesbians because they hate and fear men or because they want to overthrow the patriarchy” are essentially living a lie. Their lesbian relationships tend to be stormy and unstable because they’re forcing themselves to do something that isn’t really natural to them. They become steadily more angry and unstable. These days they’re likely to be seduced by the trans agenda because what they really want to do is run away from sex.

    The other big issue with lesbians which is now a totally forbidden subject is lesbian domestic violence.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  115. @Anatoly Karlin

    It’s possible that it will be easier to create a 120 IQ child for 90 IQ white biological parents than doing the same thing for 90 IQ blacks. The 90 IQ whites might just have a few blocked pathways or whatever, whereas the blacks might need a more serious redesign. So it’s not necessarily true even then.

  116. @songbird

    Some theorize that women are evolved to have more sexual fluidity, on a situational basis. That it was somehow adaptive.

    Women are less likely to initiate sexual contact with people not already their sexual partners (simply because usually men initiate such things), so being somewhat fluid and attracted to females as well as males was certainly not as maladaptive as with males. Still most women are predominantly or even exclusively attracted to men.

    • Replies: @songbird
  117. songbird says:
    @reiner Tor

    I think a lot of lesbians are women who failed with men. For example, I know a single mother who married a rather unattractive-looking woman. I’m sure she would have been happy with a man, if any had come along.

    Though, some really seem to hate men. Maybe, those are the ones with deeper biological roots of lesbianism.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @AnonFromTN
  118. songbird says:
    @dfordoom

    Once you accept the idea of censorship then you’ve abandoned freedom of speech

    Even in the US, with the First Amendment, freedom of speech only exists nominally. You will be fired/ made unemployable, harassed, and be threatened with acts of violence and vandalism, for saying any number of things that go against the regime.

    [MORE]

    Do we want to go back to something like the Hollywood Production Code, under which the Hollywood studios laid down rules as to what we were allowed to see?

    It is also true of film. There are many films that cannot be made in the West right now. Try making an historical film about the Siege of Vienna. Closest thing is Lord of the Rings, and they are in the process of poisoning that with poz.

    As far as I am concerned the production code had only two flaws. 1.) Lack of enforcement. 2.) Putting certain groups above criticism.

    I’m inclined to think that a better way of achieving the objective would be by smashing the media monopolies and oligopolies,

    One word: grindhouse.

    Do we want to have People’s Commissars for Wholesome Entertainment?

    You may not, but I do – so long as they are my guys. But you understand, I am talking ideal circumstances in a nationalist environment, not AOC introducing a bill with that name.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Boomthorkell
  119. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    Though, some really seem to hate men. Maybe, those are the ones with deeper biological roots of lesbianism.

    I suspect it’s the other way around. The ones with deeper biological roots of lesbianism are more at ease with their sexuality and have no reason to dislike or fear men. It’s the ones with very shallow or non -existent biological roots of lesbianism who are angry because they’re constantly trying to convince themselves that they’re really lesbians. They feel constantly threatened.

  120. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    Do we want to have People’s Commissars for Wholesome Entertainment?

    You may not, but I do – so long as they are my guys.

    If you allow a censorship apparatus to be set up you have absolutely no way of ensuring that it won’t later be used against you. There is no way you can prevent it from being taken over by people who are not your guys. Therefore the only safe approach is to oppose censorship absolutely.

    That means that you will have to learn to live with some stuff that you’re not going to like. But that’s the price of freedom.

    If it’s a choice between government-imposed (or corporate-imposed) wholesomeness and freedom I’ll choose freedom.

    If you have actual freedom of expression (which can only be achieved by smashing monopolies) then the answer to the wholesomeness problem is simple. Make wholesome movies that people actually want to watch. And learn to live with the un-wholesome stuff.

    The problem we have today is that it’s difficult for the wholesome stuff to reach an audience because of distribution problems, which comes down to monopolies.

  121. @songbird

    I think a lot of lesbians are women who failed with men.

    I believe that’s not quite fair. There are at least as many lesbians with whom men failed (were abusive, unsatisfying, unfaithful, etc.) as those who failed with men. Some character traits make people fail with partners of either sex (sometimes those hyper-compensate by claiming to be asexual).

  122. @dfordoom

    Human sexuality is very poorly understood and still somewhat mysterious.

    That’s the story pushed on us by the usual suspects.

    In fact, human sexuality is mammalian sexuality, or more specifically, ape sexuality. It is rather simple and makes perfect biological sense. What is poorly understood is genetic vs environmental influence on it, but that’s true about any complex trait, including intelligence, novelty seeking, etc.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  123. @songbird

    It would be an improvement over the current situation. Libertarianism is fine when everyone is libertarian, or we’re all in spaceships and able to leave and consume at our own pleasure. Otherwise, guidelines are necessary. Currently we’re dealing with what happens when “libertarianism” is used to “de-regulate” cinema, but is just a cover for someone else’s form of propagandizing media. On the other hand, and argument can be made that a people who naturally fall to such things deserve what is coming to them.

    Ah, thinking of your earlier point, I’m always pleased with the Natalist endings of most Japanese animation. I doubt it’s really any enforced guidelines, but more, “This is a happy ending, isn’t it?” kind of traditional vibes.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @dfordoom
    , @Wency
  124. @Anatoly Karlin

    I have to explain every now and then to my Muscovite friend who has lived here for years that, when I complain about other groups of people, it’s about statistics and personal experiences, not because I hate them for being different (if anything, in practice and interest, I’m slightly Xenophilic, but that happens when you like history and culture). I get along fine with individuals (except individuals who act like their statistical norm), so the African janitors and I can all laugh about the respective foods we would try and find disgusting, and the insanities in American and African culture (Juju being blamed for everything, etc.)

    Still, national populism as the guiding path for the majority, with some nice cosmopolitan centers, and all of it progressing somewhere, and ideally, off this planet. I’m not a terrible fan of humanity losing its humanity, but genetic improvement (not alteration) or psycho-spiritual awakenings sound great. As it is, I know humanity currently needs technology to bring it on par with other races in existence. However many Buddhist Adepts there were in Tibet, there certainly weren’t enough.

  125. songbird says:
    @Boomthorkell

    argument can be made that a people who naturally fall to such things deserve what is coming to them.

    There’s been a strong/weak blood schema since ancient times. Not wanting to mix with slaves – in modern times, perhaps, this translates into “slaves to materialism.” I can’t condemn it because I think selective breeding is laudable. But at the same time, I think it is only in modern times that we’ve applied this strong/weak dichotomy to justify weak cultural norms.

    [MORE]

    IMO, culture affects the strong, as well as the weak. Nobody is immune to it, and even those those who are considered successes in a bad culture might be marred by it. They may have achieved greater heights in a better environment. We can resolve to stay away from trashy influences, but we are, in reality, affected by each other, no matter what we each choose to consume personally.

    We’ve always had cultural norms, and we will always will, whether we want to have them or not. I think that there is a strong argument that we are all poorly adapted to modern living, and, if anything, we might need stronger, more moral cultural norms than ever before.

    I’m always pleased with the Natalist endings of most Japanese animation.

    Just going by what I’ve seen of the television commercials, I suspect that Japanese media is cheerier and more family-orientated. (one reason might be because they are used to seeing themselves). It would be an interesting premiss to test, if we could feed it all into a computer.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  126. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    That’s the story pushed on us by the usual suspects.

    In fact, human sexuality is mammalian sexuality, or more specifically, ape sexuality. It is rather simple and makes perfect biological sense.

    What’s really odd is that the “usual suspects” reject sexual Blank Slatism almost entirely. They take a surprisingly strict biological determinist view. Which was a clever tactic on their part back in the 60s and 70s – they could argue that homosexuality had to be tolerated because, “It’s not their fault. They were just born that way. They didn’t have a choice.”

    The odd thing is that they still cling to this biological determinist view. That’s presumably because the trans crowd (who now entirely dominate the LGBTwhatever movement) also see the tactical advantages of the “it’s not a choice, trans women were born women” line.

    It is interesting that the LGBTwhatever crowd actually reject the idea of sexual freedom. Which fits with my theory that the current Sexual Revolution (unlike the Sexual Revolution of the 60s) is not about sex, and is in some ways anti-sex.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  127. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Boomthorkell

    Currently we’re dealing with what happens when “libertarianism” is used to “de-regulate” cinema

    That was true back in the 70s but it’s not true today. The current Woke/PC/SJW ideology that is being pushed in popular entertainment is not libertarian in any way, shape or form. It’s a moralistic, rules-obsessed ideology. The emphasis is on compiling lengthy lists of forbidden topics, lengthy lists of what can be said and not said, what can be shown and not shown, and even laying down rigid rules about how every subject has to be approached.

    In the 70s the emphasis was on breaking taboos. The emphasis today is on creating rigid new taboos.

    It cannot be emphasised too strongly that the current Cultural Revolution is not just a continuation of the Sexual/Cultural Revolution of the 60s/70s – it’s a massive moralistic backlash against the social libertarianism of the 60s and 70s.

    The idea that the current Cultural Revolution is basically the same as the 1960s/70s one is a major right-wing delusion.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  128. @dfordoom

    Oh, I absolutely agree it isn’t. What I’m saying is, while my natural desire for a society that I would live in is “libertarian”, in the world-that-is, practical libertarianism is malicious groups utilizing Western concepts of individualism as a tool for their own oppressive and demonic theologies, which then crush actual libertarians. So, until such a time as true freedom can prevail (the free energy space age), I want an autocracy or restricted -cracy that will enforce some level of sanity and decency, and on itself as well.

    Maybe mandated floggings and communal punishments for anyone in the bureaucracy, and forced harsher living for political elites to keep them from abusing power needlessly.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  129. @songbird

    Oh, agreed. Having good cultural norms and figure-heads to lead those norms is probably the most important thing for a healthy society. The fish rots from the head. It’s also, I think, criminal and evil when an elite see their lessers as something to be despised, ignored, and abused, rather than uplifted. It doesn’t mean letting them even vote, necessarily, just doing that which improves their lives in the most natural way. This is what good elites do. Bad elites, of course, do what they currently do in many countries. A time will come, I think, when strict and good norms will be established. This is the natural pattern of things. Modernity is a real bitch.

    That would be a nice study. I’m always amazed at the Double-Think of the woke-side of the American weeaboo community (i.e. a good portion of them). They simultaneously love Japan, yet hate the processes the make it a decent place with decent people and decent media. The Korean fans are worse. Fuck.

    • Agree: songbird
  130. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Boomthorkell

    Oh, I absolutely agree it isn’t. What I’m saying is, while my natural desire for a society that I would live in is “libertarian”, in the world-that-is, practical libertarianism is malicious groups utilizing Western concepts of individualism as a tool for their own oppressive and demonic theologies, which then crush actual libertarians.

    That’s a valid point. The trouble is that these malicious groups have been very successful in convincing people that they stand for freedom and self-expression. They’ve been able to disguise their oppressive, totalitarian and neo-puritan true natures.

    Another interesting point is how effectively dissent has been crushed in movements like feminism and even the LGBTxyz movements. There are dissenters (I’ve met lesbians who are horrified by the way things are going today). Those dissenters get stomped. The TERFs are a prime example.

    There were a lot of interesting dissenting feminist voices back in the 90s, women who felt that feminism was losing its way really badly. Rene Denfeld’s The New Victorians is well worth a read in that context. Linda M. Scott’s Fresh Lipstick is also interesting for her dissenting views on the subject of fashion and the feminist desire to control women. A couple of decades ago there were a lot of genuinely interesting feminist books around.

  131. @dfordoom

    They could argue that homosexuality had to be tolerated because, “It’s not their fault. They were just born that way. They didn’t have a choice.”

    There is a huge difference between this and proclaiming it a norm. Schizophrenics or blind people are also born that way, but that does make schizophrenia or blindness a human norm.

    I am pretty sure that homosexuality, like other mental disorders, or deafness, or blindness, is in many cases hereditary, but that does not make it normal, it’s still a disorder. There is a term “congenital disorder”. That’s what it is.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  132. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    They could argue that homosexuality had to be tolerated because, “It’s not their fault. They were just born that way. They didn’t have a choice.”

    There is a huge difference between this and proclaiming it a norm. Schizophrenics or blind people are also born that way, but that does make schizophrenia or blindness a human norm.

    I agree, but it was a very successful tactic when used by homosexuals a few decades ago and it’s been very successfully used by the trans lobby.

    What’s extremely interesting about the use of that tactic is that it’s tantamount to an admission that the behaviour in question is not normal. But it’s such a potent tactic that they’re reluctant to abandon it.

    And it’s a specifically anti-libertarian position. A libertarian position would be that sexuality is a free choice and that as long as it’s between consenting adults you should be able to choose any mode of sexual expression that you want to.

  133. Wency says:
    @Boomthorkell

    I’m always pleased with the Natalist endings of most Japanese animation. I doubt it’s really any enforced guidelines, but more, “This is a happy ending, isn’t it?” kind of traditional vibes.

    I’m curious if you have specific titles in mind. I’m not crazy about anime, but I’ve seen maybe 5-10 films in my life and I don’t recall them leaping out at me as anything more than “hero gets the girl”. Which I suppose used to be the most normal of normal endings, but I can see how it’s somewhat reactionary now.

    A number of years ago, I saw someone recommend some kid-friendly anime that was supposedly super-trad and that his kids really enjoyed (though it might have been girl-oriented), but this was before I had kids and I didn’t note it.

    Obviously Japanese films aren’t pro-natal enough to motivate the Japanese to actually have kids, but I can imagine a lot of content existing there that’s better than our current degenerate fare. But also, men who are really into anime can give me the creeps sometimes. Doesn’t every MtF transsexual have some sort of anime feminine ideal that he obsesses over and aspires to be?

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    , @dfordoom
  134. @Wency

    Ha ha ha, the “Progressive of yesterday is the Reactionary of today” or something to that effect.

    I can think of some, and I’ll respond randomly to you when I do! Right off the bat though, anything by Miyazaki is just a good movie, plain. Usually touching romance, but always a good story. “Darling in the Franxx” is the most obvious. Nearly any romance anime or manga had this, though. Even the adventure ones.

    Ha ha, I definitely think some are doing it as a reaction against the current state of birth rates, even commenting on it as gag self-reference. Really though, it’s effectiveness there is only in the “background noise” effect. Better to have noise encouraging it, rather than discouraging it. Thankfully, the Japanese breeders are really showing themselves.

    There’s certainly plenty of degeneracy there, but the key thing is, I think, the context of it and how it is advertised vs. the norm. Most degeneracy is in harems of sexy women competing for a boy’s affection, ha ha ha. Still, there are “Western” degenerate tropes, but many existed in an earlier Japanese incarnation.

    You’re positively right to be. It’s probably something to do with nutjob social outcasts defining themselves via imaginative escapism of an alien culture they don’t really understand in an attempt to separate themselves from the society that actually exists around them. There’s something for everyone, unfortunately. Fortunately, I don’t define what I enjoy by the freaks who also enjoy it, which is why I once pissed off an entire K-Pop Fan Club by defending a Taiwanese singer who said “American Blacks should control themselves better.”

    P.S. I don’t like K-Pop at all, but orchestral, electro, pop and rock scores to anime tend to be amazing.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Wency
  135. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Wency

    I’m not crazy about anime, but I’ve seen maybe 5-10 films in my life and I don’t recall them leaping out at me as anything more than “hero gets the girl”. Which I suppose used to be the most normal of normal endings, but I can see how it’s somewhat reactionary now.

    I’ve seen a fair bit of anime and my impression is not that it’s reactionary or traditionalist but that it’s simply more varied than western pop culture. In anime you can get happy endings or tragic endings, you can get optimism or pessimism, you can get spirituality or secularism.

    In Hollywood today the only acceptable endings seem to be that the boy gets the boy, or the girl gets the girl. Or the black boy gets the white girl. The Japanese still seem to be able to cope with the idea that it’s OK to be heterosexual.

    Mind you, not being a woman, I haven’t seen very much of the really girl-centric anime.

    • Agree: Boomthorkell
  136. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Boomthorkell

    There’s certainly plenty of degeneracy there, but the key thing is, I think, the context of it and how it is advertised vs. the norm. Most degeneracy is in harems of sexy women competing for a boy’s affection, ha ha ha.

    I get the impression that the Japanese are still fairly relaxed about sex. They don’t feel the need to agonise over the political implications. And they don’t seem to be buying into the New Puritanism. They can still cope with the idea that men lust for women and women lust for men. They don’t see heterosexuality as necessarily right for everybody but at least they don’t see it as Problematic.

    • Agree: Boomthorkell
    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    , @Wency
  137. @dfordoom

    I remember some scholar once wrote about the changes in “Sex Positive” attitudes through Asia. Basically, the Chinese over time become super-prudish, Japan retained a more traditional “Good Sex is Good Behind Closed Doors” attitude, and the Thai are Thai.

  138. Wency says:
    @dfordoom

    Somewhat related, I used to know a guy pretty well who grew up mostly in Japan, as a white American (his dad had a corporate job that brought him there). I think this would have been in the 80s and 90s. He went to an ex-pat school but he and his peers were also friends with a fair number of actual Japanese.

    He told me that the Japanese upper-middle class parents were super-relaxed about basically everything their kids did in their teen social lives — they didn’t try to keep close tabs, as long as schoolwork got done. Consequently, lots of drugs and sex. Then they got it out of their system and moved on, grew up to live mostly normal corporate salaryman sorts of lives. A lot of the American kids got swept up into this as well, but what he noticed is that those kids did NOT move on. He was one of the few that turned out OK, because he was just sort of naturally prudish and resisted that culture. His younger brother was one of those caught up in it, OD’d on crack (of all things) some years later back in the States (I was there for the funeral).

    There’s probably partly a cultural explanation there, but I also wonder if there’s an HBD one. But it’s so interesting, and also confounding, the various ways that “sheltering” can play out.

  139. Wency says:
    @Boomthorkell

    Thankfully, the Japanese breeders are really showing themselves.

    You’ll have to expand on that. I’m fascinated by this question — who is breeding in NE Asia? In places where the TFR is approaching 1, surely there are families with 3-4 children. What do they look like? What are their values? What is their reasoning? What is their lifestyle? I tried to find some answers to this for Japan and Korea, but so far haven’t had much luck.

    I’d also be interested in better understanding this for the rest of the developed world. If I were a world-traveling freelance journalist sort, I keep thinking this is the book I would write — “Inherit the Earth: Global Profiles in Fertility”.

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