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US Elections 2020: the First Debate
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Overall, solid performances from both Trump and Biden, they know their respective audiences. The people describing this as “shitshow” etc. seem to be under the mistaken impression this was supposed to be a debate.

Both repeated their respective party line on the coronavirus. Trump lasered in from the “China Virus” angle, and mocked Biden for wearing a big mask. This would make urbane Dems aghast, but should play well with the MAGA peanut gallery.

Trump on his tax optimizations: “Unless they’re stupid, they go through the laws.” This will upset “Hajnalcels”, but America’s “Tonies” will nod in understanding.

Trump railed on law enforcement and antifa lawlessness and the radical left – who would, he noted, “overthrow” Biden if given the chance. And correctly so – the Chapos barely like “libs” any more than “MAGA chuds”. Biden for his part went on about dog whistles and racism and white supremacism. Nobody who already has an opinion on the matter will be swayed.

Opinions on climate change are also largely tribally determined in the US, so that would have swayed zero people either way. Trump is basically correct on foreign management but as usual can’t formulate his ideas crisply, which makes it easy for talking heads to deconstruct them.

Both got in some good zingers/”owns” (Trump) and folksy rejoinders (Biden), even if nothing quite lived up to the classic “You would be in jail” from 2016.

  • Trump: “I did more in 47 months than you in 47 years.”
  • Biden: “Just shut up, man.”

Trump engaged in personal attacks, but nobody expects him to be a “nice guy.” So, whatever. For his part, Biden at the end calmed the “snowflakes” who would have been “triggered” by this debate by soothingly reminding them that they should vote and that the Bad Orange Man can’t stay in power if he loses said vote.

As I said, both know their audience. I don’t know if this knowledge of theirs is intuitive, or logically deduced. While both are well above average, neither man is exceptionally bright, but both do have a certain kind of folksy charm, so I would sooner bet on the former. But this isn’t that important.

Both were sharp and belied fevered claims of “dementia” on both sides. But this was always just a cope, especially on the part of Trump supporters whose candidate is trailing Biden by 7% points in polls, and who has just a ~33% chance of winning (25% amongst “superforecasters“, 33% on Metaculus, 40% on mainstream betting sites). Biden did not show any real signs of dementia in the debate, and actually made fun of allegations he’s on stimulants by posting his “performance enhancer” on Twitter – a tub of Jeni’s ice cream.

Biden has moved up by 4-5% points on Electoral electionbettingodds.com after the debate, even though the percentage of people who thought their candidate had won seems to be very similar to their current support levels, i.e., each side believes their own candidate “won”. Now yes, interpreting market movements is in most cases a fool’s errand (what Taleb calls the narrative fallacy). But FWIW, my take is that what happened is that Biden subverted some negative expectations about his mental capacity – something I have been describing as a rightoid cope for months – before an audience of 120 million, the biggest such public political event before the actual elections. So the betting markets adjusted to more closely reflect Biden’s formidable lead in the polls.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Donald Trump, Joe Biden, US Elections 2020 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. citing polls

    Good lord. I don’t even.

  3. Ano4 says:

    If Biden wins, will the MAGA people just go gently into that good night?

    Or will they rise up against the “progressives” ?

    I don’t know Americans enough to understand if there is a true risk that the situation will deteriorate after the elections.

  4. His mental capacity is obviously deteriorating. But it won’t prevent him from winning the election.

    At least we get some amusement out of it.

  5. Dreadilk says:
    @Ano4

    Depends. If he wins by five points on election night with 300+ electoral votes yes. If there is no cheating yes. Neither of those things are likely.

    Trump already made it clear he is not going to fold.

  6. Dumbo says:

    Why would someone waste their time watching two old blowhards (and both puppets of “Zion/Deep State”) screaming at each other.

    Anyway, I still think that Trump will win. There’s not a lot of enthusiasm behind Biden (except maybe among blacks?). Yeah yeah the polls, well they said Hillary would win in 2016, they are less reliable than coronavirus numbers…

  7. Biden’s social media team bringing on the heat!

    On a side note, I really think we need to go to war with China so that the noble Han race can have the same freedom that we Westerners do, the freedom to decide which puppet they will elect as their leader based on televised debates where the candidates just shout at eachother.

    • LOL: Rahan
  8. Wency says:
    @Ano4

    I mean, who’s burning down the cities currently?

    Republicans (i.e., older white people with families and careers) don’t revolt violently. That’s for youths and minorities. If the hardcore Trumpists tried to start something, the rest of the Republican electorate would be too inclined towards law-and-order to support it. They’d support the police cracking heads and restoring order.

    I’d compare it to when Hitler attempted an illegal putsch and German conservatives rallied against him. When he won a plurality of votes and converted that plurality, more or less legally, into an absolute dictatorship, they acquiesced.

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @another anon
  9. Ano4 says:
    @Wency

    I see. That means that if Biden wins then conservatives are probably doomed.

    • Replies: @Dreadilk
    , @mal
  10. Ludwig says:

    The “debate” was an expected chaotic mess with a high cringe factor. It was performance theater with three septuagenarians – Trump, Biden, Wallace the “moderator” – all eager to show their constituents how great they are.

    A couple of comments:

    But FWIW, my take is that what happened is that Biden subverted some negative expectations about his mental capacity – something I have been describing as a rightoid cope for months

    Biden’s decline in mental acuity has not just been a “rightoid cope” but was being discussed openly in Dem circles even as of a few months ago. Biden has been a fairly energetic and articulate speaker – despite his gaffe’s – and his decline is noticeable from just even 4 years ago. There are several cases over the past few months where Biden has lost his train of thought, appeared blank, tired and confused that go well beyond stuttering, misspeaking or tangential remarks to explain.

    His adequate mental performance yesterday could be ascribed to a couple of things:

    A) massive preparation over the past month: the Biden campaign has been calling “lid” – ie a stop to Biden’s public appearances (even carefully scripted ones) – quote early in the day over the past few weeks (Eg https://dailycaller.com/2020/09/22/biden-campaign-lid-before-noon-eight-times-this-month/) and increasingly over the past few days. This was acknowledged to be for Biden to drill for the debate which would mean memorizing talking points and reactions that otherwise have been clearly being fed to him via a teleprompter even in TV interviews (and which the Biden campaign did not dispute).

    Trump meanwhile has been busy with the presidency, campaigning, giving often hostile pressers and interviews. If anything he seemed underprepared for the debate (he was being prepared by Rudy Giuliani, the former NYC mayor, and Chris Christie, a former NJ Governor).

    So Biden should be credited for preparation, memorizing the script he was handed, and not being thrown off by an aggressive Trump. Just standing their for 90 minutes and taking the blows (and landing some back) should be counted as a win for him.

    B) A sympathetic moderator: Chris Wallace (who incidentally interviewed Putin twice, and whose biological father, the legendary Mike Wallace also interviewed Putin), is a registered Democrat and though he works for the GOP aligned FOX news is mostly a centerist and part of the bipartisan establishment that hates Trump. The questions he asked Trump were framed in the most advantageous way for Biden and he appeared to jump in to help Biden a few times when the latter was under attack and seemed unsure. Trump appeared to be debating Wallace as much as Biden in many cases. That helped lessen the stress on Biden.

    C) Potentially some legally prescribed drugs to ease early dementia-like symptoms which improve memory and concentration for brief periods of time (eg https://www.healthline.com/health/dementia-drugs-and-medication). Trump himself set expectations pre-debate that Biden would appear stronger than expected and alleged that it would be because Biden would get a “big fat shot in the ass” before the debate. The Trump campaign demanded a drug test before the debate, which the Biden campaign laughingly declined (with the Biden account tweeting a jar of ice-cream as what he’s taking for “Performance Enhancement”). Now, there is nothing illegal about these drugs of course and their use can also be as legitimately defended as the statins that Trump is known to take to control his cholesterol (as well as
    Finestaride to combat baldness https://www.newsweek.com/trump-health-exam-president-hair-loss-drug-research-erectile-dysfunction-783580).

    All this said, what counts is appearances. Biden’s performance quitened critics of his mental acuity and can be counted as a win. Trump was his usual obnoxious, pugnacious self fighting all comers and was neutral to expectations.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Dieter Kief
  11. SIMP simp says:
    @Ano4

    The MAGA people don’t have the capacity to rise up. They are an atomized mass without leaders or institutions and temperamentally they are law abiding and cautious. Sure, some could do the lone wolf thing but the Red Tribe will not offer any organized and meaningful challenge anymore. Trump’s 2016 election was their last hurrah.

  12. I’m sure the “NWO” Illuminati globalists want a Trump victory, which will ensure that BLM and ANTIFA rioting, looting and burning resume with renewed ferocity. They’ll probably add in a couple more staged police/white MAGA vigilante killings of “innocent” dindu nuffin black men to ensure that America burns for months afterwards.

    This will basically make the transfer of power from “the West” (ie the US and Anglosphere mainly) to China and Russia/Eurasian Union a fait accompli, and the collapse of the “Old Order”, ie The West/Anglosphere, will be a certainty.

    I don’t think the “elites” particularly want a Democrat victory because it would take the sting out of BLM and ANTIFA somewhat when what they want right now is chaos leading to societal and economic collapse.

  13. Dreadilk says:
    @Ano4

    They are not doomed. Conservative ideology is doomed and had been for years now. Look for US to go through an Orban/Erdogan type of transformation.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
  14. @SIMP simp

    There is no real incentive to rise up at the moment, life is fairly comfortable for most and I would bet a lot of the MAGA crowd live in the countryside or suburbs where there is a homogenous White population.

    So while they may get annoyed by people tearing down statues and whatnot, it’s really not gotten bad for them personally speaking.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Exile
  15. @Dreadilk

    The Anglosphere has lost moral legitimacy as the “superpower”. WASPs are seen as war mongering, colonial racists and slavers, and BLM in the US and UK, combined with all the anti-Churchill stuff has only intensified that perception globally.

    France is now literally dismantling the “migrant” camps to force them across the Channel to England, and most French people cheer this on. Most French and Europeans generally see England as getting what it deserves for “colonialism” and its history generally. No one takes pity on this country, or the US for that matter.

    The “New Order” will be run by China and Russia/Eurasian Union, they’re the ones with the moral legitimacy now.

    • Disagree: SIMP simp
    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Dreadilk
  16. songbird says:

    Biden seemed to have a lot of pep. I wonder if Biden was on amphetamines, or if he received a transfusion of young blood.

    But if there is one thing that RBG’s death revealed, it is that whatever secret anti-senescent medicine the elites have, it cannot cheat the Grim Reaper for long. Nor does it help Biden to survive, when his replacement will be a mulatta-Indian. (Think of the value of that message just for India alone.) They will probably withhold the medicine after the election, or even outright poison him. If I were him, I would start eating MREs randomly selected from different military barracks, in order to acclimate myself to the taste.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  17. Cash says:

    Trump got Biden to move to the right on energy and health care. I’m not sure how that plays with the far left voters who didn’t want him. It could be a win for Trump if some of them decide not to show up.

    Other than that I doubt many minds were changed.

    • Replies: @Rich
  18. something I have been describing as a rightoid cope for months – before an audience of 120 million, the biggest such public political event before the actual elections. So the betting markets adjusted to more closely reflect Biden’s formidable lead in the polls.

    I don’t watch American political debates because merely from reading recaps I can already get an idea of what a circus show they are, so I didn’t watch this one either.

    Given his numerous mistatements and freudian slips (the most amusing probably being “poor kids are just as bright as white kids”) over this campaign trail I don’t think one pre-prepared debate shows that he is not senile.

    However this is different from “does it matter that Biden is senile”? No, it doesn’t since a majority of the people who vote for Biden are choosing him merely for being not Trump.

    So this is semi-literally an election between an orange and a vegetable.

    • LOL: reiner Tor, Yevardian
  19. I thought the debate did nothing to affect the polling (currently seven points in Biden’s favor), but was a clear, if narrow, Trump win. Biden looked like a frail, stuttering woman (his performance was much worse than any of HRC’s at any debate, ever), while Trump was clear and energetic, stomping Biden like he did Jeb Bush (though, Trump being Trump, he did do several own goals toward the end), and to a much greater degree than he did Clinton at any point. From the very first question, Trump delivered a coherent, articulate reason for why his replacing Ginsburg is reasonable, while Biden could not come up with a non-hackish reason for why Trump’s Ginsburg replacement is unreasonable. I don’t have a dog in this fight; I don’t favor either candidate and think Biden will win comfortably (including in states such as North Carolina and Georgia). Overall, the debate adjusted my view of Biden’s “electability” downward, but Mel Carnahan still won in 2000.

    The Vice Presidential debate will actually be more informative, as neither president appears to decide their priorities and both veep candidates are younger and sharper than the presidential candidates.

  20. mal says:
    @Ano4

    Its an interesting question. Before the pandemic and ferals (BLM) roaming the streets i actually was predicting a bright future for the Republicans.

    Demographically, their situation is terrible. Upcoming generations are leaning Blue and older Red people are dying out.

    But it doesn’t matter – population doesn’t decide the election, Electoral College does. You only need something like 23% of the popular vote to win the Presidential election. And all those young people were migrating to Blue stronghold cities (Los Angeles, San Francisco etc) where their vote simply didn’t matter because everyone was voting Democrat there already and additional Democrtic votes wouldn’t make a difference.

    By extension, all those Blue voters leaving “purple” (contested) and Red areas would make the rest of the country more Republican.

    However, it looks like chaos in the big Democrat controlled cities is causing the population to flee. At least some of those Blue voters will end up in Red counties. They are unlikely to switch their voting preferences (that’s what school and media indoctrination is for). If those trends continue, Republicans will be in for some rough times.

    I’m sure its just a coincidence with Soros funding both BLM and local District Attorney races to unleash the ferals into the ‘normie’ Democratic strongholds unopposed by law enforcement, causing the herd to disperse and thereby increasing Democratic Party voting power potential.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  21. Tor597 says:
    @Ludwig

    I don’t doubt Biden is on Adderall, but I would say the same about Trump.

    This is a known dirty little secret about the presidency. Most presidents are jacked up on performance drugs.

    Trump by the way is also exhibiting mental decline that he is probably overcoming with amphetamines.

    • Replies: @Ludwig
  22. Tor597 says:
    @Europe Europa

    Its not a perception, its reality. Anglos really are warmongering, colonialist, racists.

    Glad to see them get their just dues.

    • Agree: Hugo Silva
  23. @Tor597

    Anglos really are warmongering, colonialist, racists.

    Thanks for the compliment

    • Agree: Dreadilk
  24. @mal

    But it doesn’t matter – population doesn’t decide the election, Electoral College does. You only need something like 23% of the popular vote to win the Presidential election. And all those young people were migrating to Blue stronghold cities (Los Angeles, San Francisco etc) where their vote simply didn’t matter because everyone was voting Democrat there already and additional Democrtic votes wouldn’t make a difference.

    By extension, all those Blue voters leaving “purple” (contested) and Red areas would make the rest of the country more Republican.

    For US commenters, how much would the 2020 census redistribution affect future elections? My (perhaps false?) impression is that the electoral college won’t be drastically changed, but what about the House of Representatives?

    • Replies: @songbird
  25. Ludwig says:
    @Tor597

    Trump by the way is also exhibiting mental decline that he is probably overcoming with amphetamines.

    A couple of things:

    1. The Trump campaign asked for drug testing – both for their candidate as well as Biden. The Biden campaign declined essentially framing it as laughably insulting. Now it could be that Trump is hopped up on drugs and is just bluffing – but he did offer to be tested. It was the Biden camp that declined.

    2. If one watches Trump from say 20+ years ago talking to Oprah epousing the same policies he advocates now, and now there doesn’t seem to be much mental decline other than an older voice. Trump has always meandered, boasts and goes off on tangents. He may be accused to megalomania, narcissism and some level of pyschopathy (more than usual for most successful CEOs and politicians all of whom exhibit more of all these traits than the average person), which are mental conditions but not the same as acuity.

    This is very different from Biden of say just 4 years ago and now. Biden really appears old and fragile and anyone who has spent time with senile seniors can pick up the signs. The inability to recall things with the fluency that one was previously used to – and Biden was a consummate and skilled politician who once had to drop out of a POTUS campaign because he smoothly plagiarized a speech from a UK Labour leader – causes frustration resulting in replacement with “you know” and “things” and hand waving. He takes long breathy pauses and has – even in scripted interviews and statements – many times simply looked miserable and tired.

    Biden is also 3 years older than Trump (77 vs 74) though he is no longer as sharp or energetic as even his senior, Bernie (79) who also, like Trump, seems the same as he was 20 years ago.

  26. Dreadilk says:
    @Europe Europa

    I was talking about a national level not international. Look at Russia if you want to see how white Americans will fare during the dissolution of you want to consider the international picture.

  27. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean

    States losing seats: Alabama, California, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and West Virginia.
    Key states gaining seats: Florida and Texas (2-3 each)
    Texas: 41.4% non Hispanic white/33.3% births by mother, 2018
    Florida: 53.2% non-Hispanic white/ 43.2% births by mother, 2018

    Other states gaining: Arizona, Colorado, Montana, North Carolina and Oregon (1 each)

    In summary: electoral votes and congressional seats will shift south and west, primarily to less white states, facilitating anti-white rhetoric and extraction from whites. They are now counting illegals for apportionment – the US is fucked.

    If anything, it seems to me, without considering short term chances in 2024, the electoral college will be more affected than Congress, the reason being most states don’t split their electoral votes – you either gain or lose the whole amount – except for Maine and Arkansas, which are states with small pops. Only the demographic trends matter, and Texas and Florida will soon both be in the bag, for Democrats.

    • Thanks: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @AP
  28. Miro23 says:

    Just having watched it, a few things stand out – at least for this non-American:

    – Trump did too much interrupting. It introduced chaos and lowered the quality of the debate.

    – Physically, Trump came across as being in better shape than Biden. Biden looked frail and shaky (not good).

    – An awful lot of critical economic issues got little or no time or were simply sloganized. For example healthcare and MIC costs, or of course America’s slavish and ridiculously expensive obedience to Israel (nice if a candidate would mention this).

    – Too many personal attacks wasting time.

    – Antifa/BLM. Moderator Wallace and Biden tried to focus on “White Supremacy” blaming it equally for the riots (actually reluctant to admit to anything other than peaceful demonstrations). Trump blew them out of the water on this – not hard to do – and IMO won the debate here, showing that Democrats were covering for the rioters.

    – Police. Biden seemed to suggest that police should go out to 9-11 calls accompanied by psychologists to “talk through issues”. Very strange.

    – Biden knowingly employed the invented fake news story “Trump calls military losers and suckers”. He probably lost more votes than he gained with that.

    – Biden suggests nations getting together to pay $ 20 billion to Brazil to stop them cutting down rainforest. How about sanctioning them rather than rewarding them?? Yet another bizarre idea from Biden.

    – Wallace and Biden trying to tie Trump down to transition acceptance. Trump rightly stated that the Democrats (IOW ZioGlob/Deep state/MSM/PC/LBGT) in no way accepted his 2016 election victory and worked non-stop to undermine him.

    My personal conclusion is that the ZioGlob has so much mobilized against Trump ( and they’re such dirty players ) that he’s had it. That’s not to say that he ever did much for traditional Americans or the Constitution. It was ironic that this debate took place under a banner reading, “The Union and the Constitution forever”.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @Patricus
  29. Rich says:
    @Cash

    The young, college aged leftists I’m acquainted with don’t support Biden or harris. I’ve been told that they believe Biden is a conservative and a “racist” and Kamala is a police stater. Admittedly, it’s a small sample, but it’s something.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  30. In general Biden supporters, were disgusted with the whole debate, not accepting the fact that where war is happening, either verbally or physically the wood chips are going to fly. Biden in general looked bad, trying to out Trump, Trump. It didn’t work. No matter how much Biden tried to convince people that the violence in the country is not coming from the left, he looked as if he didn’t believe it himself.

  31. Beckow says:
    @Miro23

    ….critical economic issues got little or no time or were simply sloganized

    I agree. Any substantial economic discussion in a mature – or post-mature – system becomes a taboo. At this advanced stage there is no way to change the system – too many beneficiaries and privileges. Taboos exist for a reason – if there is no gain and lots of conflict in an open discussion societies always create a taboo about it. Unfortunately that leaves only bad options.

    Overall Trump did better than the cranky old man, but it will take some time for that to sink in. He didn’t knock Biden out as much as he tried, maybe next time.

    On Medical care Trump is making a mistake by talking cheerful nonsense about ‘drug prices’, ‘efficiency’, and empty content-free bravado. He got elected by alluding to doing better, by letting people project that he actually will do something. He won’t and he no longer even pretends and it might cost him the election.

    An interesting fact: there are 1 million non-citizens on Medicare in just California who never worked a day in US (this is an official number from 2018). They were brought in by relatives to take advantage of the post-65 old socialist medical system for the elderly. Both doctors and hospitals are making a killing charging Medicare, so they have no incentive to stop the gravy train. At the same time tens of millions of younger Americans are uninsured or have miserable high-deductible insurance, so basically no health care. This idiocy combines open borders with an economic injustice, it should be Trump’s sweet spot, but he will never address it. If he loses and the world has to deal with the octogenarian moron Biden and his Hindu Hillary sidekick, these business-uber-alles idiotic libertarian ideas will be responsible. If he can’t even fix this, what is he good for?

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @Chrisnonymous
  32. jsinton says:

    I thought that Biden won because he showed he was not totally senile… for the debate. He must have had a good script doc. The expectation was Biden would demonstrate he could not form coherent sentences or complete a paragraph of related ideas.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Wielgus
  33. Miro23 says:
    @Beckow

    Any substantial economic discussion in a mature – or post-mature – system becomes a taboo. At this advanced stage there is no way to change the system – too many beneficiaries and privileges. Taboos exist for a reason – if there is no gain and lots of conflict in an open discussion societies always create a taboo about it. Unfortunately that leaves only bad options.

    It’s a sclerotic society built around elite privileges – rather like the old European aristocracies. Trump is so hated by the elite because he once (2016) addressed the oppression of the “deplorables” and – even worse – got himself elected on those revolutionary ideas.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  34. EldnahYm says:
    @Tor597

    Racism is good.

    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Tor597
  35. @Rich

    Classic Chapo demographic.

    All power to the Chapos!

    • LOL: Not Raul
  36. @Miro23

    It’s a sclerotic society built around elite privileges – rather like the old European aristocracies. Trump is so hated by the elite because he once (2016) addressed the oppression of the “deplorables” and – even worse – got himself elected on those revolutionary ideas.

    The USA has a corrupt and dysfunctional system but I think such analogies only serve to muddy the waters.

    Both economically (late industrial/post-industrial vs feudal agrarianism) and socially (comparatively static conservative vs permanent revolution-style liberal demotic globalisation) they are quite different and require quite different solutions.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @Miro23
  37. Beckow says:
    @Hyperborean

    …require quite different solutions.

    No matter how different these civilizations are, once they reach the point of paralysis, there is no known way to ‘reform‘ without a (usually external) cataclysmic event. You can’t ‘reform‘ the system. There will be a lot of talk, but show me the last time an over-the-hill gerontocracy successfully changed. There may be no ‘solutions’ given the constraints that we are operating under.

    Two old men yelling at each other incoherently about nothing. Where did we see that last time?

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @AP
  38. @Beckow

    No matter how different these civilizations are, once they reach the point of paralysis, there is no known way to ‘reform‘ without a (usually external) cataclysmic event. You can’t ‘reform‘ the system. There will be a lot of talk, but show me the last time an over-the-hill gerontocracy successfully changed. There may be no ‘solutions’ given the constraints that we are operating under.

    Even a revolutionary régime still has to deal with the problems of the ancien régime. If the new palace occupants analyse the wrong problems they will make policy decisions that at best creates stagnancy or at worst sets the stage for a new crisis.

  39. Miro23 says:
    @Hyperborean

    It’s a sclerotic society built around elite privileges – rather like the old European aristocracies. Trump is so hated by the elite because he once (2016) addressed the oppression of the “deplorables” and – even worse – got himself elected on those revolutionary ideas.

    The USA has a corrupt and dysfunctional system but I think such analogies only serve to muddy the waters.

    Both economically (late industrial/post-industrial vs feudal agrarianism) and socially (comparatively static conservative vs permanent revolution-style liberal demotic globalisation) they are quite different and require quite different solutions.

    Agreed that the present ZioGlob elite and the old European aristocratic elites come from very different places, but elites are elites. If they haven’t collapsed into decadence, then they erect walls around their power and form an in-group. They get all the economic and social privileges while the worker outsiders (post-industrial service workers?) serve in various capacities for minimum living wages.

    State legislatures were designed to control central government, but over time, their power filters away to the centre (Washington). It comes under elite control along with the legal system, media, education, industrial policy etc. = what I see as the neo-feudal US of today.

    • Agree: Nodwink
  40. AP says:
    @Beckow

    There will be a lot of talk, but show me the last time an over-the-hill gerontocracy successfully changed.

    Deng Xiaoping was in his mid-seventies when he began the process of reforming China; his partner in this project (and successor) Chen Yun was the same age.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @Blinky Bill
  41. AP says:
    @songbird

    States losing seats: Alabama, California, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and West Virginia.

    Of these, California, New York, Illinois, Minnesota, Rhode Island, and Michigan (2016 was probably a fluke) are Democratic and Alabama, West Virginia, Ohio are Republican. Pennsylvania can go either way.

    Key states gaining seats: Florida and Texas (2-3 each)
    Texas: 41.4% non Hispanic white/33.3% births by mother, 2018
    Florida: 53.2% non-Hispanic white/ 43.2% births by mother, 2018

    Florida’s Hispanics are often Cubans and they are trending towards Trump (Trump is winning 50% to 46% among Florida Latinos). Texas’ Latinos, while trending Democrat, are not heavy Democrats (Biden is winning among Texas Latinos 48% to 38%). Given higher turnouts by Whites these states are far from being lost to Republicans. Florida will remain a swing state for at least another couple of election cycles and Texas will remain Republican likewise. In 20 years, who knows.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Dmitry
  42. Miro23 says:
    @AP

    There will be a lot of talk, but show me the last time an over-the-hill gerontocracy successfully changed.

    Deng Xiaoping was in his mid-seventies when he began the process of reforming China; his partner in this project (and successor) Chen Yun was the same age.

    These were comparative youngsters. The democratic leadership has already reached 80 years (Pelosi) with Sanders (79) and Biden (77) not far behind. And that’s not taking account of their sponsors such as George Soros (90) or Henry Kissinger (97).

    • Replies: @AP
  43. AP says:
    @Miro23

    When the reforms started Deng was 74 and Chen Yun 73 but as the process continued those guys got well into their 80s.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
  44. Patricus says:
    @Miro23

    If you are not from America why do you bother to comment? Obviously you know nothing of American politics. Do you hope to influence American voters? I can’t imagine wasting my time analyzing an election in Belgium or Switzerland. I don’t live in either place and can’t possibly make informed comments.

    • Disagree: Drapetomaniac
  45. I thought that Biden held up well against Trump. Can’t say the same for Trump. Fox news reported that Trump had not prepared for the debate and it showed. He recycled the same steam roller tactic that he used in 2016, but to much less effect since he is in a much different position than he was in four years ago. He was the great disrupter in 2016, but now he is POTUS could not articulate anything meaningful. Of course, Biden did not offer up anything substantial either, but didn’t make an ass of himself in the process. Trump bungled the answer to the question of denouncing white supremists. He could have easily turned it back on Chris Wallace by asking if white supremicists were the ones in the streets, burning businesses and police precincts. Instead, he let Chris Wallace lead him into a pathetic denunciation of a politically marginal group that nevertheless largely revered Trump. I’m sure the only effect the debate had on the voting public was to disillusion some Trump supporters. His antics were an embarrassment.

  46. @AP

    Deng Xiaoping reformed China, but I suspect he never reformed his own views or beliefs. He was simply unable to enact them until Mao died. China simply became what others in the Party had always accused Deng (Capitalist Roader) of trying to implement in secret or through sleight of hand (Socialism with Chinese characteristics).

  47. songbird says:
    @AP

    20 years seems quite optimistic to me.

    Most common age of whites is about 60. Massive difference from other groups. Blacks about 30. Hispanics about 13. Asians about 31.

    That’s 20 years of differential deaths, and people getting feeble. That’s 20 years of new, less white voters entering the rolls. My maximum estimate is about 8. In 20 years, I’m not sure there will be debates.

  48. @Ano4

    If Biden wins, will the MAGA people just go gently into that good night?

    Yes. With much heartburn and bellyaching in the beginning.

    White American conservative-liberals are unorganized, indolent, greedy cowards. After Trump is removed from office by means foul/fair, their ability to communicate pseudo-anonymously via Internet will be severely restricted/ended. They will fold like cheap suitcases. A small, atomized minority might actively resist but will have no support. The consequences suffered by this minority will serve as examples to the majority.

    Violence, if it occurs, will primarily be in one direction and won’t extend past the suburbs. Rural conservative-liberal types will be easily managed and readily forced to conform.

    Count on this happening despite the blustering of naysayers.

    • Agree: anonymous coward
    • Thanks: Ano4
    • Replies: @Ano4
  49. @songbird

    India is patrilineal

    • Replies: @songbird
  50. Ano4 says:
    @Oldtradesman

    So Globalist neo-Trotskyism is coming our way in the West?

    (Serious question)

  51. Silence is never a winning strategy.

    White conservatives are going from silent majority to silent minority. Either way, silence is lead in politics.

    Now, there are two kinds of silence. One where people don’t speak and one where they speak but are not heard because of voice-suppression or vocal-suppression. If whites do speak but Jewish Monopoly of media muffles them, then whites are the SILENCED majority than the Silent Majority.

    If whites just don’t speak due to apathy, cowardice, or lack of ideas, then they’re cooked.

  52. Tor597 says:
    @EldnahYm

    Sure, I agree with this.

    But not the way Anglos do it. Anglos are extremely dishonest about race and racism. They are extremely racist but pretend to be the most enlightened about race at the same time.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
  53. Exile says: • Website
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Only a minority of BadWhites in the U.S. are presently uncomfortable enough to make the kind of lifestyle changes required for real dissidence and political activism in Neo-Lib/Sovietized America – jobs, relocation, unplugging from mass media and the financial system.

    It’s a toss-up as to which candidate would provide more “acceleration” potential at this point. I’m a big believer in Trump’s “Thatcher Effect” on American Righties.

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2019/08/04/trumps-thatcher-effect-obstacle-to-white-nationalism/

    That said, nothing enrages American conservatives like Lefties in power and Biden/Harris would be a poison pill for everyone on the Right in America as well as a lot of “dirbag” Bernie-Bro Lefties who correctly perceive “Lunchpail Joe” to be a poseur and Harris as another cynical Obama-style empty Brown suit.

    I plan to be doing constructive work for White interests in America on election day, which means anything but voting. The choice between arsenic or cyanide just isn’t worth making. Until we have legitimate opposition parties (if ever), voting in Chimerica beyond local or small-state races is a kabuki corral for dissident energy.

  54. Dmitry says:

    I watched it, although it is of course an unimaginably stupid discussion from both sides – if you are fan of American culture (which I am ) it was entertaining.

    In all the discussion, there was one intelligent and very important point from Trump, about corporation tax rates. Biden seems to say that he was going to increase corporation tax again, and Trump responded that companies would leave again in response.

    This was the only important policy point of the debate, and it should have been the main feature of any reporting. Biden plans to reverse Trump’s modest cut in corporation tax. This would result in outflow of companies again.

    The concept of such a political discussion being viewed as a “gladiator contest”, is strange, and reminds of the presocratics.

    However, by 2020 we have something more like a exhibition of anti-Sophists, with two candidates climbing over each to sound more stupid and drunk than the other one.

    I’m not sure what the relation of being noisy and shouting, can have to candidates’ ability to make correct choices for a country. Although obviously I know what the real motive of this is.

    If you compare with a job interview, where you would just ask the candidate to present their qualifications, point of view and opinions – it would have been much more informative for voters, but vastly less entertaining. US elections are a crossover part of the entertainment industry, and this is where the elections comes closest not exactly to sport, but certainly to wrestling.

  55. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    The political persona Trump presents seems like he should be attractive in South America, Italy, or the Middle East. As with Boris Johnson, Trump’s persona contains the opposite of the virtues we would expect from a stereotype of civilized English origin people. (In both examples, a useful result of narcissism).

    Between Calvin Coolidge of a century ago, or even a relatively polite and civilized Mitt Romney in 2012 – Trump’s persona already feels to me, closer in spirit to the character “President Camacho”.

    Trump’s noisy persona, mirrors the century’s technology induced ADD, and I would have predicted that he should be successful with a lot of the voters from cultures like Latin America,

    If you compare quiet persona of US President of a century ago, it would perhaps have been a failure even by the middle of the 20th century, after the invention of television. Trump would attacked him as “low energy”.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @AP
  56. @Ludwig

    Quite popular German Professor of rhetorics and soccer-expert and film-critic Walter Jens developed dementia when being in his eighties. I – then – saw him giving a speech and debating for 1 hour+ about classical Greek theater, one of his lifelong core subjects. It worked. But it felt creepy. It’s the same with Joe Biden. He is clearly not in top form and losing it at times quite badly. I can’t think of any good reason to have somebody like him as president. – Not least, because even beginning dementia can well be accompanied by personality issues.

  57. @Dmitry

    If – ok – if – – Donald Trump would be listening to this whole sequence, I mean, if he had a good day and be patient enough to do it, he might agree with president Calvin Coolidge quite easily.

  58. @Ano4

    If Biden wins, will the MAGA people just go gently into that good night?

    Or will they rise up against the “progressives” ?

    After the spectacle of the last four years, why should they? If the do, they may as well don the chains the left will have them in in relatively short order. America will not be a better place if the MAGA people go gently into the good night.

  59. @Dieter Kief

    It’s the same with Joe Biden. He is clearly not in top form and losing it at times quite badly. I can’t think of any good reason to have somebody like him as president.

    One good reason is to express-track the Presidency of an otherwise unelectable Kamala Harris (25th Amendment or otherwise) … it might even put Hillary back in play; as SCOTUS nominee if the Repubes lose their nerve in a few weeks, or even as the Veep in the Harris administration, which will be mercifully short in that case.

  60. @Dieter Kief

    It’s like the bit at the end of El Cid where they prop him up on his horse

  61. Wielgus says:
    @jsinton

    Trump was Trump. Trumpies have been expecting for months that Biden would lose bowel control or start drooling in his shoe during any debates, and any failure to meet these expectations must be counted a win for Biden.

  62. @Tor597

    How are “Anglos” extremely racist? Britain’s problem is it isn’t anywhere near racist enough, if the British were “extremely racist”, do you honestly think this Muslim and African invasion across the Channel from France would be tolerated?

    If the British were half as “racist” as you think, the boats would be towed back to the French coast immediately, these invaders would not be housed in hotels with all bills paid as is what really happens.

  63. songbird says:
    @Sher Singh

    India is patrilineal

    No matter, Harris, when she is not crowing that she is a black, crows that she is an Indian, and “Kamala” is a name Indians recognize. (BTW, I think blacks should be banned from having non-black names, especially ethnic ones). And, anyway, the message is intended for young Indian women, not men: if they miscegenate with Africans, like the mother of Harris, then globohomo will embrace their mulatto brood and give them great power.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @sher singh
  64. @Beckow

    Technically, she is Dindu-Hindu Hillary

  65. @songbird

    (BTW, I think blacks should be banned from having non-black names, especially ethnic ones).

    In this particular context, what do you mean by ethnic names?

    • Replies: @songbird
  66. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Generally agree with your comment, but:

    The political persona Trump presents seems like he should be attractive in South America, Italy, or the Middle East. As with Boris Johnson, Trump’s persona contains the opposite of the virtues we would expect from a stereotype of civilized English origin people. (In both examples, a useful result of narcissism).

    Trump has been compared to Andrew Jackson in terms of presentation (perhaps Teddy Roosevelt had some such energy). So there is a tradition of respect for a bombastic crude go-getter type in the USA, it wasn’t all just calm calculating Yankees or refined Southern gentlemen.

  67. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean

    I essentially mean names not traditionally used by blacks in America, pre-1960s. This would mean that they would have access to the names of their ancestors (except for more recent ones, like Sean Combes.) They would have access to a lot of traditional English or biblical names, used frequently in the past in America, like Will, Tom, and George, but not certain older English names, from the Middle Ages which would be off limits to them, and thus open for English people to flee to or to pick in order celebrate their history.

    Of course, that is the generous version of my idea. Another version would have them pick new surnames, derived from African languages. As well as having Jews with ambiguous surnames pick ones more clearly differentiated.

    I think these changes would help build group cohesion, and make for a more functional society. Of course, Harris herself would be deported to either Africa or India, since she does not have slave ancestry in America.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  68. @songbird

    Concerning fake things, Trump has proposed to turn “Juneteenth” into a national holiday.

    I wonder (unironically) how long it takes until Kwanzaa becomes a holiday, either State or Federal.

  69. @Hyperborean

    Juneteenth existed long before Trump or Kwanzaa was invented.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  70. @anonymous coward

    Juneteenth existed long before Trump or Kwanzaa was invented.

    Not as a Federal holiday.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  71. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean

    I don’t know how many Americans even think of this, but I find it really quite notable that the only Federal holiday actually named after an American (as a singular person) is Martin Luther King Day (created 1983.) Technically, “Washington’s Birthday” still exists on the books, but today in most states it is rare for anyone to call it that – it is far more frequently called “Presidents’ Day.”

    I think it might be interesting to keep MLK’s Birthday as a holiday, but just for blacks – people would come to enjoy working on the day without their surly black coworkers and inept affirmative-action bosses, or else, they would come to dread it, for all the black students and adults released onto the streets.

    Personally speaking, I have only heard liberal acquaintances make two serious proposals for new holidays. Renaming Columbus Day (sort of a day for Italian pride) to Indigenous People’s Day is one – I’m frankly surprised it has survived up until now, but I guess it is hard to touch a government holiday – few blacks complain about Lee Day, in states where it survives. The second proposal is to make Election Day a holiday, which mystifies me since it is relatively easy to get a mail-in ballot. Maybe, it is meant to be a celebration of universalism?

  72. @songbird

    Indigenous People’s Day is celebrated in a special way in Britain

    • Replies: @songbird
  73. Hartnell says:

    What is happening in America reminds me of South Africa in 1994. Trump is basically an American version of Terreblanche and his MAGA followers are the equivalent of all those Conservative Party /AWB people. They made a huge noise, they protested and even smashed into the world trade centre. In the end however, it was mainstream white South Africa who voted to allow for multiracial elections.

    Now this itself is an interesting phenomenon and bodes well for the future of America. Those who voted in South Africa genuinely believed it was going to work. The younger generation of that time became strong anti racists and heavily critical of apartheid.

    Now fast forward to 2020 and any white South Africans I speak to, particularly the young, all tell me the same story. The ANC want to kick whites out of South Africa, how bad it is there, Julius Malema, etc etc. A far cry from 1994.

    Now this gets me thinking and America is on the same path. Right now, most people are sitting quietly, thinking everything will just be OK. Maybe they have a point. Anti racism, etc. Fast forward to 2050 and when the crime is bad in America, whites are the minority and it seems horrible, what will they do? Flee of course to Eastern Europe! Telling everyone how bad it is.

    It is like a cycle and honestly at this point, I just cannot see America being a good place to live in 30 years time.

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @EldnahYm
    , @AP
  74. @songbird

    The second proposal is to make Election Day a holiday, which mystifies me since it is relatively easy to get a mail-in ballot. Maybe, it is meant to be a celebration of universalism?

    I think it is part of the fetishisation of demotism by leftists. Even when they are being authoritarian they have the compelling urge to justify their actions with appeals to a non-existent “democracy” or a universal shallowly conceived “people”.

    For a recent example see the Spanish socialist government’s insistence on calling their antifa memory law the “democratic memory law”:

    The First Vice-President of the Government pointed out that the new law abandons the term “historical memory” and includes the term “democratic memory” to recognise the milestones in the fight of the Spanish people for their rights and liberties, which began more than 200 years ago. “We must rediscover this shining history of our country, which should be in the collective awareness of our people, in our classrooms, so that we are all aware, are informed and can be conscious and responsible for upholding democracy”. The new law includes measures of an educational nature to be included in the curricula for compulsory and advanced secondary education, and also to train teachers.

    https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/gobierno/councilministers/Paginas/2020/20200915council.aspx

    • Replies: @another anon
  75. EldnahYm says:
    @Hartnell

    Immigration is the main problem in the U.S. South Africa had a local(I won’t say “native” since Bantus were genocidal invaders, not indigenous) population which greatly outnumbered the white population. That isn’t primarily what is happening in the U.S. The reason is because liberalism also reduces the fertility of non-whites substantially(in addition to many other ills). The black fertility rate might actually be less than the white rate without the impact of Afro-Caribbeans, Somalis, etc. One of the things that keeps the U.S. from descending much further into the depths is liberalism’s destructive impact on minorities. It will take substantially more immigration to permanently wreck the United States.

    But we are trying. In particular, the immigration of people from the Indian subcontinent bodes ill for the future of the United States.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @Corvinus
  76. @Hyperborean

    Yup, Spanish left still feels the butthurt and insists in retroactively winning the civil war after 80 years.

    As another example, Spain will offer citizenship to the descendants of International Brigaders from the Civil War.

    In practice, it means nothing. Overwhelming majority of the volunteers came from what are now EU countries, their descendants are now EU citizens who already could live in Spain if they wished so.
    This is just another empty gesture meant to trigger the cons
    ….
    or isn’t it?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Spanish_Civil_War

    According to an official Soviet source, more than 2000 Soviet citizens served in Spain, many of them being awarded the Soviet honours and 59 being awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union.[108] The maximum number of Soviets in Spain at any time is believed to have been 700, and the total during the war is thought to have been between 2,000 and 3,000.

    Yea, if you are from Russia or any other post Soviet country, and your great-grandpa was in Spain in 1930’s, your whole family won the jackpot.

  77. @Wency

    Exactly.
    In the United States, there is at least 600 million guns, possibly one billion, and millions of psychopaths and crazies.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20161031054743/http://weaponsman.com/?p=33875

    And the total death toll of the puny ass “riots” is … dunn dunn dunn … TWENTY ONE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_racial_unrest

    No, America is not Syria, Iraq, Yemen or Somalia. America is not even Mexico or Colombia.

    There is not going to be any “glorious second civil war”, and this is good thing, because nuclear armed superpower turning into Somalia will not be good news for anyone.

  78. songbird says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    Guess I didn’t realize it, but they have already axed it in a lot of places locally: multiple cities, such as Seattle, Los Angeles, Denver, Phoenix, San Francisco and also entire states, including Minnesota, Alaska, Vermont and Oregon, have replaced Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples’ Day.

    Weird rhetoric considering how US Amerinds like being called “Indians.” Since Indians are pretty much ignored, suppose it must be meant to appeal to Mestizos and pureblood Central Americans. Seems ultimately counterproductive to their goals to get whites thinking of the order of arrival.

  79. AK, how reliable are the polls this time around? They were off by like 20 percentage points in 2016.

    How reliable are they now?

    One interesting note, the betting odds are also in favor of biden. They were in favor of trump in 2016. Is this a true indicator like in 2016 or the power behind the scenes got to the betting odds too?

    • Replies: @A123
  80. A123 says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    One interesting note, the betting odds are also in favor of biden. They were in favor of trump in 2016. Is this a true indicator like in 2016 or the power behind the scenes got to the betting odds too?

    They are NOT credible this time around.

    In 2016, the big players ignored them. This resulted in fairly efficient & accurate predictions.

    In 2020, the SJW Globalist DNC sees the existential threat from accuracy. They have responded with “push” markets to synergize with “push” polling.

    PEACE 😇

  81. LOL. Typical Soros/USAID/Deep-state subtones from Agent Karlin

    The people describing this as “shitshow” etc. seem to be under the mistaken impression this was supposed to be a debate

    Calling it a “shitshow” is obviously a deep-state psyop done to discredit Trump by discrediting the entire process so that Biden doesn’t have to either commit to more debates or can diminish the significance of being inevitably annihilated by Trump in debate.

    How can it be a “shitshow” when I assume Trump used identical debating style to win nomination from millions of Republican voters against 16 other Republican candidates in 2016? The people obviously prefer this type of contest . Anyway Americans are tactless ,love cheap entertainment, they want massive arguments and I am 100% sure that their media like to preview this type of thing as if it was a boxing match instead of an intellectual pursuit. How can these same idiots then complain about it being a “shitshow”? It’s total nonsense.

    What is a shitshow is somebody like Obama trying to “intellectualise”. I am proud that Putin as our president has amazing depth of thought on numerous issues. It creates massive noise in our society and media when he articulates something on any issue like Lenin, or his excellent article on WW2, or says something about American culture or Cromwell, Russian language, science, revolution etc. Does Obama or Blair or Merkel or Trudeau or Macron have an intellectual opinion on anything? No

    Compare what Putin has said on WW2 and then compare to what would Obama say? Just start singing the song “Freedom” by the faggot George Michael as a summation of WW2? There is just nothing in his or most other major US politician’s brain

    Both were sharp and belied fevered claims of “dementia” on both sides.

    This is just disgusting false equivalence. Trump talks, thinks and reacts quickly – easily like a man 30,40,50 years younger. He may talk BS but nobody could associate that with dementia . His pensioner age is never used to attack him, precisely because he appears the exact opposite of dementia sufferer. Young people tend to talk in a more crude, vulgar style also – as Trump does – so what is used to criticise him actually helps in further disassociating him from any “dementia” comparisons.
    Biden, though clearly he is the stages of dementia and is not even close in speed of thought, speech and reaction to Trump. In addition he is also very dumb. Even saying “Biden didnt sound too demented” is a win for Trump because standards are being applied to Biden different to how they are for different politicians . If a western politician says 1% incoherent nonsense and 99% boring stuff then he is ridiculed for that 1%, for Biden it appears he needs to be only 20% coherent so that Americans take pity and call it a “success”.

    Biden has moved up by 4-5% points on Electoral electionbettingodds.com after the debate, even though the percentage of people who thought their candidate had won seems to be very similar to their current support levels, i.e., each side believes their own candidate “won”.

    Obviously fake media BS. Trump should have most of the American middle class and win the election. Even though 200000 dead from coronavirus is a disaster – that is maybe 2-5 million people directly affected by the death of a friend/family – for the rest of the population the negative effects from restrictions are probably greater than the fear of infection, so Trump’s message should appeal to more, particularly in a country with a different mentality on business issues than any other . Negro voters can’t now be much worse for the Republicans then they have over the previous several decades- so either this level is maintained or the negro middle class ( and there is significant one in US) goes majority Republican. Florida all he has to do is say what an **** he thinks Castro’s brother is and he should win there.

    Biden did not show any real signs of dementia in the debate, and actually made fun of allegations he’s on stimulants by posting his “performance enhancer” on Twitter – a tub of Jeni’s ice cream.

    WTF? Salted Peanut Butter with Chocalate fleks is a type of ice cream there ? Freaks in America actually eat this excrement? It reminds me of when I went to Brazil and saw some favelas, or similar thing in South Africa, or a person with motor neurone disease……..the immense pity I felt to those people living there/experiencing that is the same I do to Americans and their eating habits. Despicable.

    Trump engaged in personal attacks, but nobody expects him to be a “nice guy.” So, whatever. For his part, Biden at the end calmed the “snowflakes” who would have been “triggered” by this debate by soothingly reminding them that they should vote and that the Bad Orange Man can’t stay in power if he loses said vote

    Didn’t see the debate, just clips on Youtube so can’t talk on level of personal attacks – but I did notice that Biden called him a clown……exactly the type of insult I use regularly.

    • LOL: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @another anon
  82. Ano4 says:

    Looks like political violence readiness is on the rise in the US of A.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157

  83. @Hyperborean

    That doesn’t make it fake (“concerning fake things”). The only fake part is imposing it on 85% of the population who have no emotional connection to it, most of whom only learned of its existence in 2020.

  84. @EldnahYm

    The black fertility rate might actually be less than the white rate without the impact of Afro-Caribbeans, Somalis, etc.

    Caribbean hispanics have the lowest fertility rates of all hispanics, lower even than the white fertility rate. Well, that’s true of Puerto Ricans and Cubans anyway, the two groups that the CDC keeps data on. It may not be true of Dominicans.

  85. @songbird

    There’s been killings in the USA for sons dating niggers, and Indians don’t pick their own spouse||
    Why are you cheering on a globohomo race mixing message then euromutt christcuck?

    [MORE]

    The welfare of the social order, according to St. Augustine (City of God XV.16) and St. Thomas (Suppl. Q. liii, a. 3), demanded the widest possible extension of friendship and love among all humankind, to which desirable aim the intermarriage

    when the best interests of society required the unification of the numerous tribes and peoples which had settled on the soil of the Roman Empire. By overthrowing the barriers between inimical families and races, ruinous internecine warfare was diminished and greater peace and harmony secured

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04264a.htm

    caste mixed mutts trying to advocate for the brothel civilization they call christendom.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
  86. Miro23 says:
    @Gerard-Mandela

    Both were sharp and belied fevered claims of “dementia” on both sides.

    This is just disgusting false equivalence. Trump talks, thinks and reacts quickly – easily like a man 30,40,50 years younger. He may talk BS but nobody could associate that with dementia . His pensioner age is never used to attack him, precisely because he appears the exact opposite of dementia sufferer. Young people tend to talk in a more crude, vulgar style also – as Trump does – so what is used to criticize him actually helps in further disassociating him from any “dementia” comparisons.

    Biden, though clearly he is the stages of dementia and is not even close in speed of thought, speech and reaction to Trump.

    That’s what I saw (watching the whole debate). Physical condition has to be a factor in deciding which way to vote.

  87. TG says:

    It’s MSTK3000 the US presidential debates!

    “We have debate-sign!”

    Agh!

    “Hey, that guy looks like Raymond Burr from the original Godzilla movie, except he has orange hair!”

    “Actually, Raymond Burr did have orange hair in the original Godzilla movie, but they filmed it in black and white.”

    “Really? I did not know that.”

    “And that other guy looks like one the vampires drained of life in the movie “Life-force,” although he’s less personable.”

    “Yeah well the rotting corpse of the first Duke of Wellington was unavailable for this filming, so they had to settle for a recent forensic case that had been left out in the sun for too long.”

    “Don’t you hate it when budget constraints ruin the artistic aspect?”

    Darn, this is fun. I may write a short story on this…

  88. @Hyperborean

    My comment history will show that I am far from a fan of African-“Americans” and their influence on our country on balance. But there’s nothing wrong with a holiday to celebrate the end of treating human beings like freeking cattle in our country, whatever their race, and whatever the subsequent systematically destructive and obnoxious behavior of the slaves’ descendants.

    It would have been much wiser and more realistic to send them back to africa, sure, bur they didn’t ask to be brought here — and as a nation we should be glad to mark the end of the needless enslavement and cruelty that was perpetrated under the sick “laws” of the time,

    There should be a package deal creating TWO new federal holidays:
    Emancipation Day and Good Friday.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  89. @songbird

    How about a package deal with something for almost everyone:
    make both Good Friday and Emancipation Day federal holidays.

    • Replies: @songbird
  90. @Gerard-Mandela

    LOL. Typical Soros/USAID/Deep-state subtones from Agent Karlin

    Yes, comrades, be vigilant! Be always vigilant, the enemy never sleeps!

    • LOL: Ano4
  91. AP says:
    @Hartnell

    Well, a key difference is that about 8% of South Africans are of European descent while even in 30 years at least 40% of Americans will be.

  92. songbird says:
    @RadicalCenter

    The way it seems to work is that you need to get rid of an old holiday to make a new one.

    I think it would likely be an improvement to get rid of MLK day, and turn it into Emancipation Day, but there’s two problems with that: MLK is a progressive saint, so it would never be allowed, and I think people like having a holiday in January. June is also when students make up for snow days, so pushing that back would be unpopular.

    I don’t know if Easter Friday is that popular a target holiday. Say you need to travel quite a distance, like many college students – ride some bus and get some connecting bus – but need to be in school on Monday. That can mean that traveling back home for Easter Sunday is impracticable.

  93. @AP

    In 1910 South Africans of European descent were around 20% of the population. Though even if America’s white population declines to 8%, that does not exclude America form being a developed society and a center of power.

    • Replies: @AP
  94. Hartnell says:
    @AP

    The problem is, all of this mainly third world immigration is not improving the quality of life. Instead it is leading to mass ghettoisation along with a heavy increase in violent crimes. When the white population does get to 40%, I expect the U. S at this point to really start to resemble Brazil and South Africa. I don’t think many of those white people are going to want to stick around and will vote with their feet.

    • Replies: @AP
  95. AP says:
    @Hartnell

    The problem is, all of this mainly third world immigration is not improving the quality of life.

    Correct. It will make things more crowded, noisy, and “exotic” in a way that natives didn’t ask for. Wages for the working class will go down.

    Instead it is leading to mass ghettoisation along with a heavy increase in violent crimes.

    Not really. Places like LA or Compton have gotten safer as a result of the Mexican immigration. El Paso is the safest large US city.

    When the white population does get to 40%, I expect the U. S at this point to really start to resemble Brazil and South Africa.

    Our non-white people are going to be primarily Latin American Mestizos, who are very different from non-Whites in Brazil or South Africa. They will mix with our working class, make it darker and noisier, and tacos will become as “American” as pizza and hamburgers (they are already halfway there). The unfortunate Blacks will be pushed into the fringes. Upper class Whites and Asians will remain in charge. There will be more than enough of them to keep industries and technology globally competitive. Not an ideal future, but not an apocalypse either.

    • Agree: EldnahYm
  96. AP says:
    @Rattus Norwegius

    See my other comment. The fertility of non-Whites is also declining in the USA, though it is a generation behind the decline of American Whites. By the time it stabilizes Whites will probably be around 40%, they won’t get lower. Country will probably be around 40% White, 40% Latino, 12% Black, 8% Asian. As of 2017 it was 61.5% non-Hispanic White, 17.6% Latino, 12.3% non-Hispanic Black, 5.3% Asian.

  97. Corvinus says:
    @EldnahYm

    “It will take substantially more immigration to permanently wreck the United States… In particular, the immigration of people from the Indian subcontinent bodes ill for the future of the United States.”

    LOL, our heritage was LONG ago wrecked by the infusion of Eastern and Southern Europeans. Take, for example, the Italians. In a letter responding to an inquiry about immigration in New Orleans, Mayor Joseph A. Shakspeare (1890’s) expressed the common anti-Italian prejudice, complaining that the city had become attractive to “…the worst classes of Europe: Southern Italians and Sicilians…the most idle, vicious, and worthless people among us.” He claimed they were “filthy in their persons and homes” and blamed them for the spread of disease, concluding that they were “without courage, honor, truth, pride, religion, or any quality that goes to make a good citizen”. Heritage Americans, aka WASPs, were negatively impacted by their presence. We’ve been paying the price ever since.

    Unless, of course, you believe in magic dirt…

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  98. EldnahYm says:
    @Corvinus

    Note my use of the word “permanently.” The US. is salvageable.

    Your implication that I have a soft spot for Ellis Islanders or people of Italian heritage is wrong in an amusing way.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  99. EldnahYm says:
    @RadicalCenter

    African slaves were treated better than northern factory workers much less their unfortunate brethren in Africa. Slavery was too good for blacks. Eliminating slavery did not solve any problems.

    Cattle do not murder, rape, and steal from us. Anyone serious about ethics should acknowledge we owe far more compassion to cattle than black people.

    The only black people worth any compassion are the pygmies, bushmen, and other victims of Bantu genocide.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  100. Corvinus says:
    @EldnahYm

    “Note my use of the word “permanently.” The US. is salvageable.”

    No. From the WASP perspective of the late 1800’s/early 1900’s, the U.S. became other than salvageable due to the pox of Eastern/Southern Europeans. Which it appears you tacitly believe they were/have been a scourge on our society. But do we as white people need all of the allies we can muster from the ongoing onslaught of Jews and SJW’s? Why your apparent animus?

    “Your implication that I have a soft spot for Ellis Islanders or people of Italian heritage is wrong in an amusing way.”

    In light of your statement, it appears you are pro-white and pro-European for only certain groups. NOTICE you did not even attempt to dispute the that description of Italians.

    Pray tell, what is your ethnic breakdown?

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  101. Corvinus says:
    @EldnahYm

    “African slaves were treated better than northern factory workers much less their unfortunate brethren in Africa…Slavery was too good for blacks”.

    That is patently false.

    https://mises.org/library/brutality-slavery

    It is pointless to criticize such passages as only selected instances of cruel treatment, counterbalanced by acts of kindness by Byrd and other planters toward their slaves. For the point is not only that the slave system was one where such acts could take place; the point is that threats of brutality underlay the whole relationship. For the essence of slavery is that human beings, with their inherent freedom of will, with individual desires and convictions and purposes, are used as capital, as tools for the benefit of their master. The slave is therefore habitually forced into types and degrees of work that he would not have freely undertaken; by necessity, therefore, the bit and the lash become the motor of the slave system. The myth of the kindly master camouflages the inherent brutality and savagery of the slave system.

    One historical myth holds that since the slaves were their masters’ capital, the masters’ economic self-interest dictated kindly treatment of their property. But again, the masters always had to make sure that the property was really theirs, and for this, systematic brutality was needed to turn labor from natural into coerced channels for the benefit of the master. And, second, what of property that had outlived its usefulness? Of capital that no longer promised a return to the master? Of slaves too old or too ill to continue earning their masters a return? What sort of treatment did the economic self-interest of the master dictate for slaves who could no longer repay the costs of their subsistence?

    Regarding the enslavement of Africans by Africans, in Africa, slavery was a result of debt, war crimes, or criminal activity. In sub-Saharan Africa, the slave relationships were often complex, with rights and freedoms given to individuals held in slavery and restrictions on sale and treatment by their masters. This system is unique compared to American slavery, where slaves were seen as perpetual property and a status symbol who had no legal rights as individuals.

    “Eliminating slavery did not solve any problems”.

    The elimination of American South black slavery, or slavery in general? Why? Please be specific.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  102. EldnahYm says:
    @Corvinus

    No. From the WASP perspective of the late 1800’s/early 1900’s, the U.S. became other than salvageable due to the pox of Eastern/Southern Europeans. Which it appears you tacitly believe they were/have been a scourge on our society.

    Southern Europeans are no longer breeding in large numbers like in the past century. Their impact, while negative, is also smaller than that of other undesirable groups. They are no longer a unified voting block either, at least judging by Italian numbers. In terms of popery, it is Irish Catholics who are the main group which have historically pushed that as a political movement. Italians aren’t a group famed for valuing religious ideals over hedonism. The long term impact of Italians is likely only to become smaller as times goes by, regardless of what happens with various minorities.

    But do we as white people need all of the allies we can muster from the ongoing onslaught of Jews and SJW’s? Why your apparent animus?

    Social Justice Warriors are currently advocating abortion on demand for all and wrecking black cities. Why would anyone sane person want to put a stop to this? Liberals and leftists are currently the only group putting checks on black and low IQ breeding behaviors. If conservative nitwits put in half the effort towards goals that complimented these policies, like preventing criminals from seeing their families for instance, as they do for trying to prevent abortion, much could be accomplished.

    The SJW phenomenon has never manifested itself through democratic means. Law enforcement and corporations are the main groups pushing it. Having large unwashed masses of “allies” is perfectly useless against these tactics. Besides, the nature of social justice discourse gives minorities little incentive to push back against. What you need is an organized, unified group of obsessives who are willing to fight back intelligently against the SJW phenomenon. Inviting in a bunch of minorities will only cause trouble.

    In light of your statement, it appears you are pro-white and pro-European for only certain groups. NOTICE you did not even attempt to dispute the that description of Italians.

    I’m not “pro White” for any groups. Being pro white is simply a political tactic which serves certain interests at certain times, as in the Sailer strategy idea. I don’t like low quality people from any group.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  103. EldnahYm says:
    @Corvinus

    You might want to review what common causes of death past childhood were in the 18-19th century. Blacks slaves in the south did not suffer from cholera, smallpox, yellow fever, influenza, typhoid, and diphtheria as much as northern factory workers did. They had better diets than any European peasants of the time, and were on average taller than them. The comparison with sub-Saharan Africa is even worse. Large stretches of Africa were experiencing population decline due to sexually transmitted diseases which lowered fertility. I know many nutty Jews like Mises will claim being a slave is somehow worse than dying. A pity we cannot put their resolve to the test.

    Your description of African slavery is comical. Next you will tell that a pygmy who dies of cannibalism had a better life than American slaves because at least he was free. I have my doubts.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  104. Corvinus says:
    @EldnahYm

    “You might want to review what common causes of death past childhood were in the 18-19th century.”

    Indeed.

    https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0074-02762006001000017

    In summary, there is evidence for two specific infectious diseases in the Eaton Ferry Cemetery that are known from historic records to have troubled XIX century African Americans: tuberculosis and syphilis. These and other diseases no doubt contributed to the deaths of seven infants and children, and perhaps also to the childhood growth disruption observed in the teeth of six adults. These high rates of childhood affliction support the hypothesis that infants and children were a particularly vulnerable segment of the enslaved African American population in North Carolina. While the sample is small, the cumulative picture of health stress in the Eaton Ferry sample nonetheless provides compelling evidence for the steep biological costs of slavery, particularly for the youngest of the enslaved.

    https://nkaa.uky.edu/nkaa/items/show/2201

    Included in the 1850 U.S. Federal Census Mortality Schedule are 71 black slaves in Kentucky who died of cholera, most from Scott, Warren, and Woodford Counties; the schedule also lists the death of seven Kelly slaves in Warren County in June 1850. There were also 16 mulatto slave deaths in Scott, Shelby, Spencer, Union, and Warren Counties. S. M. Young, a free mulatto woman from Scott County, also died of cholera in 1850.

    https://www.press.uillinois.edu/books/catalog/85scf7fe9780252008740.html

    Widely regarded as the most comprehensive study of its kind, this volume offers valuable insight into the alleged medical differences between whites and blacks that translated as racial inferiority and were used to justify slavery and discrimination. In Medicine and Slavery, Todd L. Savitt evaluates the diet, hygiene, clothing, and living and working conditions of antebellum African Americans, slave and free, and analyzes the diseases and health conditions that afflicted them in urban areas, at industrial sites, and on plantations.

    “Blacks slaves in the south did not suffer from cholera, smallpox, yellow fever, influenza, typhoid, and diphtheria as much as northern factory workers did.”

    OK, put your research skills to the test, friend. YOU made the charge, now support it with evidence.

    “They had better diets than any European peasants of the time, and were on average taller than them.”

    Actually, there are contrasting views on slave’s diets and access to food. Some historians portray slave diets as being “plentiful”, while other historians claim “the fare of the plantation as coarse and scanty”. Yet, there is agreement that slave diets were quantitatively satisfactory, but not qualitatively sufficient, which led to slaves being generally “physically impaired or chronically ill”.

    “I know many nutty Jews like Mises will claim being a slave is somehow worse than dying”.

    It is not a claim; rather, being a slave, past and present, is a living nightmare and in some ways worse than dying. At least when the slave died, they found inner peace.

    “A pity we cannot put their resolve to the test”.

    How about volunteering yourself into slavery so you can compare the difference between enjoying the ability to make your own decisions and being subject to carrying out the whims of your master?

    “Your description of African slavery is comical”.

    It’s not my description, it’s from the Mises Institute, which is detailed and complete. So rather than labeling it in that fashion, how about offering a cogent rebuttal rather than outright dismissing it?

  105. Corvinus says:
    @EldnahYm

    “What you need is an organized, unified group of obsessives who are willing to fight back intelligently against the SJW phenomenon”.

    So why do you not lead this charge, rather than talk about it on a blog?

    “I’m not “pro White” for any groups. Being pro white is simply a political tactic which serves certain interests at certain times, as in the Sailer strategy idea. I don’t like low quality people from any group.”

    Which is anti-white. How do you expect to generate support for your cause when you come across as a pompous ass? Just curious as to what you believe constitutes “low quality people” and how you do not fit that criteria…

    “Southern Europeans are no longer breeding in large numbers like in the past century. Their impact, while negative, is also smaller than that of other undesirable groups.”

    But when they (and Eastern Europeans) came in droves, they destroyed the original character of the U.S., according to WASPs at that time. They breeding habits were most likely responsible for the lowering of our collective IQ; as a result, a literacy test was employed in the 1910’s to stem the tide.

    “They are no longer a unified voting block either, at least judging by Italian numbers. In terms of popery, it is Irish Catholics who are the main group which have historically pushed that as a political movement. Italians aren’t a group famed for valuing religious ideals over hedonism. The long term impact of Italians is likely only to become smaller as times goes by, regardless of what happens with various minorities.”

    So, magic dirt it is!

    Again, what is your ethnic breakdown?

  106. Agree completely.
    Technically it’s Biden’s win, because the stereotype of him being a demented boomer wasn’t just right wing, but was also picking steam among the more radical leftist bernie types and was spreading amongst more “normie” left wingers.

    Him just showing that he’s capable of speaking normally and dropping pre-packaged zingers broke all the stereotypes, and even Trump’s own narrative of “sleepy Biden”.

    As a debate, it devolved into IRL shitposting. And at that point you just pick the shitposters that you like more. Both sides probably expected this, as you said, since it plays into their bases.

    Trump has good stage knowledge. His first debate with Hillary was an absolute disaster, but he quickly picked up pace by the 2nd and 3rd. Maybe we can see some cooler tricks from him next time, or maybe he’ll figure this line is the safest bet.

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