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Many people have remarked that Trump has been an incredibly polarizing President. What’s less remarked upon is that the effect doesn’t isn’t just work across the population, but across time within the hearts of his supporters.

Come to think of it, wouldn’t Qanon be the very immanentization of a zrada-peremoga cycle, where each “victory” (peremoga) ends in a “betrayal” (zrada, some temporary contingent factor that prevents the attainment of a full peremoga) explained away as a “4D chess move” to attain the ultimate victory, Endsieg – the “Storm”.

Based Douglas McGregor, the Million <50,000 MAGA March, Rudy Giuliani’s latest on “here is how Trump can still win” – certainly very amusing that all of this will continue through to at least January 2021, if not beyond.

***

Also found a comment I left on Richard Spencer’s Radix mag on Nov 2016 (though link no longer active since Disqus no longer works on that site):

It would not be opportune at this moment to “cash in,” and Spencer is absolutely right to say that Trump should be monitored and criticized when necessary, especially if he begins to backslide on his promises, which are themselves ultimately rather limited. In fact, my longstanding opinion is that nationalists as a general grouping will become highly splintered under Trump, with some unconditionally supporting while others turn sharply against him for his “betrayals” while others recognize that it is the best that could be realistically hoped for and continue working on moving the Overton Window further right.

Yeps, I think that describes things to a tee. Spencer himself “defected”, as did many of the more NazBol’ish elements, while a few others have are now even more gung-ho ho than in 2016. But most Amnats ground their teeth and went with the third option.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Donald Trump, Humor, Prediction 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

  2. Ano4 says:

    Anatoly, it’s not about Trump. And neither is it about Biden. Let’s forget about the persons and think about principles.

    It is about what kind of future we prefer: the Conservative or the Woke. The Based or the Pozzed.

    This is the choice, Trump or Drumpf is not important. What is important is: will Antifa beat up normal peaceful middle class people in downtown DC each time that America attempts to have an election?

    Will people continue to lose their jobs because they disagree with young children becoming transgender?

    Is this the future Americans have to endure?

    And no, it ain’t gonna go back to normal after the election. The democracy is FUBAR there…

    • Replies: @another anon
    , @Mr. Hack
  3. A123 says:

    In fact, my longstanding opinion is that nationalists as a general grouping will become highly splintered under Trump, with some unconditionally supporting while others turn sharply against him for his “betrayals” while others recognize that it is the best that could be realistically hoped for and continue working on moving the Overton Window further right.

    This is a bit of an over statement.

    Trump is a Populist, not a nationalist:
    — The White Nationalist movement abhors his Jewish family and were never part of the coalition.
    — While MAGA sounds nationalist, and was certainly great for the nation, Populist Trump was never shy about supporting overseas allies. He helped Christians in Hungary and Poland against the IslamoGloboPaedo authoritarian Reich in Brussels/Berlin.

    There were a few losses from single issue advocates (e.g. those who wanted H1B reform in the First 100 Days). For the most part, the Christians Populist coalition has remained steadfast knowing that it is impossible to achieve everything instantly.

    If Biden somehow manages to steal the election the Trump 2024 campaign will further strengthen Christian Populism in opposition to the SJW Islamic Globalist DNC. A betrayal can only occur after Trump’s 2nd term. It would most likely happen should the movement fail to find a credible successor for leadership.

    In some ways the catastrophic failure of a Biden/Harris term could be helpful:
    — After overhyping Chinese Coronoavirus, they will own the economic damage.
    — After letting loose BLM and Antifa, they will be unable to control the fiasco… yet more damage.
    — Christian Populism gets 4 more years to develop junior leadership that will eventually provide a successor.

    Given Biden’s clear willingness to start a nuclear war with Putin over Hunter’s Burisma investment, the best path for the country is to overturn this year’s fraud. Those who are pushing for Biden, are desperately hoping that the establishment can prevent him from nuking ” Something beginning with the letter ‘I’ “ like Iran, Iowa, Iraq, India, Ireland…

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Juri
  4. @Ano4

    It is about what kind of future we prefer: the Conservative or the Woke. The Based or the Pozzed.

    LOL. There is no conservative or patriotic bone in Trump’s body. He is lifelong liberal globalist liar, fraud and con man.
    People who believe Donald Trump are not called “conservatives” or “patriots”. They are called “mugs” “suckers” and “losers”.
    If Donald Trump is all what conservative future can offer, then conservatism belongs to garbage dump of history.

    This is the choice, Trump or Drumpf is not important.

    Then why is it so important whether his fat ass sits in White House or Mar-a-Lago?

    What is important is: will Antifa beat up normal peaceful middle class people in downtown DC each time that America attempts to have an election?

    They will, because they can, because no one is doing anything to stop them.
    Least of all Trump.

    Face it: you were conned, just like many people before you.
    When you are in a pit, do not dig deeper. Get out till you can.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/donald-trumps-13-biggest-business-failures-59556/

    • Agree: Bill, EldnahYm
  5. Ano4 says:
    @another anon

    Again, I don’t care about Trump at all.

    What I do care about is the kind of system my children will grow up and live in. If the globohomo swallows America whole, this future will be utter degeneracy in the whole global West. Anything or anyone who can in whatever manner postpone this future or even better prevent it is a natural choice for me. Despite all his flaws as a person, Trump is not a direct globohomo asset. Whether he has been used indirectly is another interesting matter.

    Look, it’s damn easy: I don’t really like Putin, but if I knew that Putin will be replaced with a Navalny / Masha Gessen tandem at the helm of Russian state I would forget and forgive what ever Putler did before and pray for him to prevail until better times.

    I remember in 2016 when Alt Right crowd was posting memes about “God Emperor Trump” I was just laughing and pointing to the fact that his son in law is a Lubavitcher and his daughter converted to Judaism.. Putin also is close to the Lubavitch sect, but if the choice is between Lubavitch tools and globohomo, then I prefer Lubavitch tools.

    I prefer less degenerate people.

    As simple as that.

  6. @another anon

    In the words of Sam Hyde, the ultimate goal in life is being redpilled and triggering the shitlibs.

  7. @Ano4

    … while others recognize that it is the best that could be realistically hoped for and continue working on moving the Overton Window further right.

    I am not an Americanophobe. So:

    • Agree: Ano4
  8. Juri says:
    @A123

    — Christian Populism gets 4 more years to develop junior leadership that will eventually provide a successor.

    I think no. The point is Donald is superman. Rich smart articulated and tireless. If he could not pull resistance off, nobody can`t and nobody will not even try.

    Donald becomes the next Hitler. Hitler fell 80 years ago and even today not a single politician does not want even remotely deal with some issues.

    Also Swamp takes good care to remove anybody who may look like future opposition leader. Swamp does not do the same mistake twice. Trumpism will be smashed out as hard as Nazism in post war Germany.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @AP
  9. songbird says:

    Will the US ever have a “populist” leader who derides gays, like Bolsonaro? Even in a 100 years? Or is such a thing predicated on the break-up of the US? The pealing away or nuclear annihilation of the gay centers, like Hollywood, San Francisco, and urban areas generally?

    • Replies: @Ano4
  10. Ano4 says:
    @songbird

    I don’t know about you, but I am not a homophobe. I simply don’t care about how adult people f☆ck each other. I am a heterosexual, married father of four and happy that way. If some people are only happy in a homosexual relationship then so be it. None of my business as long as they don’t preach that homosexuality is better than heterosexual relationships and don’t try influencing young kids.

    Some gays are clearly on the right side of history: Glen Greenwald, Peter Thiel etc.

    Obsessing with gays, Jews and/or Muslims is shortsighted. Globohomo is anti-human, period. It is for population debasement, dehumanization, global culling of the masses. It is against true scientific progress and human development. It is degenerate sh☆t. F☆cking entropy wearing a human biological form. That’s the enemy. The fact that they use homos and minorities as a tool doesn’t mean that homos and POC own globohomo.

    Aim higher.

  11. @Ano4

    Most people on the Right are offended by the excessive promotion of sexual deviancy via things like Pride Month and the concurrent Global Capital push where they change their logos to have a rainbow flag background. We also see the increasing normalisation of this unholy relationship model in schools.

    Homosexuals are mentally ill, they know that they are different. They feel uncomfortable, to put yourself in their shoes, imagine if every single couple in TV adverts and billboards was same-sex? You would feel pretty weird right, and imagine if at the grocery store and shopping centre you saw men holding hands and making out.

    So this homosexuality is obviously a mental illness as it makes the different deeply uncomfortable, so what happens is the political homosexuals want to change the balance and make normal people feel like they are the weird ones. The march of the Sodomites will not stop until all TV adverts have homos in them.

    The Russian model is probably the best, it’s not vicious like the Islamic model but at the same time the homosexuals keep themselves on the closet.

    Personally I find even public displays of affection by heterosexuals to be off putting.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  12. 128 says:

    Interestingly the IQ for West Virginia is 98, way higher than what you would assume if you took an ocular inspection, or from the stereotypes of the people in IQist forums, and as high as places like Smolensk, Novgorod, or rural Tuscany.

  13. Ano4 says:
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Personally I find even public displays of affection by heterosexuals to be off putting.

    Agree with that.

    Truly decent people do not show off.

  14. songbird says:
    @Ano4

    None of my business as long as they don’t preach that homosexuality is better than heterosexual relationships and don’t try influencing young kids.

    Too late. Have you not heard of “drag queen story hour”, and similar moral outrages? Gays are higher in the totem pole of intersectionality – implicitly that means the establishment thinks that they are superior to us, and they want us to believe it too. I reject the notion.

    Can they be tolerated, without them being made superior? Well, the Japanese seem to tolerate them to a certain extent without worshiping them. But logically, before we can accept their model, we need to be able to duplicate it. I see no evidence that we can. I doubt the Japanese, formidable as they are, could themselves, under similar demographic conditions, which enable bioleninism.

    [MORE]

    I think at a bare minimum, we need to return to mass popular usage during the 1980s, which allowed the word “fag” to be used as an insult. Though, IMO, the ’80s and even earlier, were broadly too tolerant and allowed for the creation of a petri dish for a new, costly plague – HIV. I think a wise society would admit that was a mistake and re-tool accordingly.

    I am not a homophobe.

    The narrative of the state is one of moral dualism: good and evil. What is the antonym of this word? Does it really exist in our cultural language? If not, then it is a uni-directional weapon against decency, employed to further the cause of poz. I refuse to use such words – I think it inadvisable to grab hold of the enemy’s bayonet, and help him thrust it through me.

    More-ever, it is a brutalization of classical language and proper scientific taxomony. What is this “homo“, of which I am supposed to have a fear? Does it mean “man”, as in Latin? Then it appears to be an attribute of lesbians. Or does it mean fear of the “same”, as in Greek? Perhaps, then, it is good propaganda, being on so many people’s tongues, and we should accept it as a better construction than the word xenophilia, which cannot be found in a ratio of more than one to a million, to the the implicitly globohomo word xenophobia. Of course, accepting, the caveat what we need to rehabilitate the word, first, and give it its classical, etymological meaning.

    And so, I conclude: I am not a “h-phobe.” At least, as any European scholar of substance would understand the word, for a period of hundreds of years, before the invention of queer studies. No, I am a nationalist. In fact, I appreciate homogeneity, even in other peoples.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  15. Aedib says:

    Svidos encouraged by the Azeri success.

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/6332167.html

    They, apparently, are blind to the fact that the Armenia-Azerbayan war ended with Russian troops IN NK.

  16. Yevardian says:

    Richard Spencer is almost certainly an opportunistic grifter at best and actual Fed at worst.

    I remember the guy blowing up on the media totally out of nowhere and all-but declaring himself the ‘leader’ of the alt-right, there was nothing organic about it all. Since it’s totally collapsed in a heap since 2017, he’s disowned it, but anyway, I don’t recall him having any recognition whatsoever until the media decided to appoint him as a figurehead for the WN ‘movement’. Almost immediately after that, it started imploding under the sheer number of MAGA imbeciles it started attracting after it and Spencer were suddenly given extensive media coverage.

  17. Ano4 says:
    @songbird

    The LGBT topic is a diversion for the masses, while they are corralled into the the 1% Communism for the masses + Aristocracy for the uber wealthy. While you obsess with sodomites, they are taking the future from your genetic lineage. They want to become the owners of the biosphere, while we and our offspring will be mere tenants, expulsable from history, from existence itself without further notice.

    Same thing about the nationalistic antagonisms, religious strife and all the great neuroses of our era. While we are agitated by stress and paranoia they are taking the future from us. Before 2050, we might well find ourselves living in a global ecological/technocratic concentration camp where our population as a species will progressively decrease until we are in an arbitrarily imposed equilibrium with the biosphere. And you obsess with Gays?

    Strange choice of priorities…

    You know why they’re doing it now? Imposing the Great Reset on us now? Because otherwise it would become evident to any intelligent person that Singularity is at hand, that we are ready to become a new and more powerful civilization where all these puppeteers are no longer needed.

    They want to keep power to themselves and their 1% elite club. It is all about power and right to posterity.

    But keep being busy fighting the Drag Queens. Jolly good time allocation it is…

    😁

    • Replies: @songbird
  18. AP says:
    @Juri

    Doubtful, because Trump-friendly Republicans have not been wiped out, indeed they have expanded local control. So a good chance of a Trump-lite or an improved neo-Trump (Tucker Carlson?) winning next time, given that Biden will probably stumble badly. He is already planning to bring in 125,000 refugees. What can go wrong?

    • Replies: @Juri
  19. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    I hear you. I was moved by this very revealing article about what’s going on within American society. It’s scary to think that “the land of the free and the home of the brave” is now vying for recognition as being a more controlled society than even China, and all to solidify the ruling 1%’s focus and control. Definitely worth reading:
    https://www.unz.com/ghood/americas-social-credit-system-is-worse-than-chinas/

    • Agree: Ano4
  20. songbird says:
    @Ano4

    And you obsess with Gays?/But keep being busy fighting the Drag Queens.

    You are engaging in the postwar liberal narrative of “tolerance.” According to this narrative, any display of “intolerance” (to selective groups only – not to me or mine) becomes an “obsession.” What am I? Some primitive computer with only room for the string “gays” in my CPU? No, I assure you I have room for at least a dozen prejudices and probably more. I’m not obsessed with gays, any more than were my antecedents, who were similarly intolerant.

    Jolly good time allocation it is…

    This is ipso facto a ridiculous thing to say on the internet – we are all here for entertainment. Or, is it your employment?

    Anyway, the idea that gays are just bread and circuses is a rather silly one. You think the flag of globohomo is just something the torero brandishes in the ring, and that it not flown to mark territorial conquest? Then, I guess we should not find it on flagpoles, on patches, and attached to embassies.

    You deride drag queens as though in-your-face-gays were unicorns and not militantly marching to destroy ethnic parades. As though, hundreds of billions of dollars of public moneys haven’t been spent on them. As though, they aren’t trying to surgically alter little kids. As though, the majority of public restrooms haven’t been closed down, due to the difficulty of arresting them, in this political climate.

    Call me a utopianist, and deride me, if you must, but that won’t change the fact that I want a society with the necessary level of intolerance to have clean, open public restrooms, within easy reach, in the city. Most of the world does not have these things, and parts frankly seem incapable of it. But, I think the greatest accomplishment in the West was not the moon landing, but rather being a society that had these things for a few decades, anyway.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  21. Juri says:
    @AP

    I hope you are right. But those Trump supporters are confused cattle without idea what is going on and what to do.

    For me, situation is very similar to Russia 1917. Russian Elite and people had no idea what was happening and with what they are really dealing with.

    History demonstrates that if communists already have the upper hand, there will be very difficult to turn situation around. Commies preparing their revolution for decades so when they finally strike, there are no institutions left what are not taken over or at least corrupted to impotence.

    Look how helpless was huge MAGA folk in the recent rally. No idea, no unity and no defense and no fighting back. Antifa did what they wanted. What will happen when the commies launch serious attack. How this cucked disorganized mass supposed to fight back ?

    Few gunowners of course may shoot but those few hotheads will be killed or jailed until official death penalty like Kyle Rittenhouse. And after that , cattle goes into submission.

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @AP
  22. Ano4 says:
    @Juri

    I agree with what you write, with a small caveat: the Great Reset is a peculiar type of Communism. It is directly imposed on the masses by a certain fraction inside the globalized 1%.

    It is not a revolution by an underclass, it is a planned evolution of the society towards a more tight control of resources and energy allocation. They are working in a mindset of scarcity and diminished technological growth. They are working towards a preventive population decrease.

    American society is just one among many around the world to being the target for planned and controlled demolition.

    • Replies: @Bill
  23. Ano4 says:
    @songbird

    I have no time for arguing about gays. There are more interesting topics to explore.

    • Replies: @songbird
  24. songbird says:
    @Ano4

    I have no time for arguing about gays.

    Classic: you replied to me 3x, and posted a pic.

    There are more interesting topics to explore.

    Agree with you here, that is why my original comment was a throwaway, and you had to draw me out, to get me to expound.

    • Agree: Bill
  25. Bill says:
    @Ano4

    It is not a revolution by an underclass,

    This makes it like every other revolution.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  26. Ano4 says:
    @Bill

    Well yeah kind of.

    But here it is more of a planned demolition to rebuild a future of total control upon human beings as cells in a kind of golem. Like Micrococcus xanthus getting organized in a multicellular pod for survival.

    The difference being that the either they know something that the masses don’t, i.e. we really are headed towards scarcity of some resources, and energy depletion, or they just pretend and manipulate to slow down technological progress and keep the planet for themselves and their offspring.

  27. AP says:
    @Juri

    For me, situation is very similar to Russia 1917. Russian Elite and people had no idea what was happening and with what they are really dealing with.

    No, antifa leaders and ghetto looters are no hard Bolsheviks and Latvian rifles. Not even close.

    History demonstrates that if communists already have the upper hand, there will be very difficult to turn situation around. Commies preparing their revolution for decades so when they finally strike, there are no institutions left what are not taken over or at least corrupted to impotence.

    Again, the ones striking in this case would be struck down. America is a well-armed population and there is an inverse relationship between being skilled in use of guns and political leftism. American soldiers donated to Trump, not Biden, as do police. If there were to be an armed revolution it would be against an elite that had become outrageously provocative, and the Left would be swept aside.

    But I doubt that this would happen.

    Look how helpless was huge MAGA folk in the recent rally. No idea, no unity and no defense and no fighting back. Antifa did what they wanted.

    Most people went home when, a few stragglers were victimized by jackals. This occurred in the heart of “enemy territory” (DC is the most anti-Trump place in America).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  28. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    American soldiers donated to Trump, not Biden, as do police.

    On the face of it, this seems to go counter to common sense. Why would the police side with those that sympathized with the looters and demonstrators, rather than with the one that clearly stood for “law & order”? The police were mercilessly demonized during this whole long drawn out anarchical charade, while Biden, Pelosi and gang were kneeling in obeisance to the aligned crowds of hooligans and subversives.

    • Replies: @AP
  29. Amnat gritting his teeth here, ha ha. It’s funny how only recently has my much more conspiratorial and cynical friend (guy has soft-banned books about CIA heroin operations), has finally come around to my own…”nuanced” view of Trump. He thought he would clear house, recently he’s decided Trump was a planted traitor (peremoga-zrada I suppose), and I just barely convinced that Trump really was…well, just a guy who got elected, a non-ideological one. He’s no Putin, no Xi Jinping, nor was he ever going to be. He simply weakened the Empire and gave the world more time through that internal chaos, and that’s something I’m sure everyone outside NATO Europe can be “thankful” for.

    Man, Amnat’s my favorite political shorthand since “NatPop” from Kaiserreich.

  30. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Sorry about my clumsy phrasing. American soldiers and police were both pro-Trump.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  31. @Ano4

    What I do care about is the kind of system my children will grow up and live in. If the globohomo swallows America whole, this future will be utter degeneracy in the whole global West. Anything or anyone who can in whatever manner postpone this future or even better prevent it is a natural choice for me.

    You might have point, if Trump was actually slowing the wokeness. But, in reality, Trump accelerated the progress of social justice wokeness by order of magnitude.

    Exactly as Scott Alexander predicted back in September 2016.

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/09/28/ssc-endorses-clinton-johnson-or-stein/

    One more warning for conservatives who still aren’t convinced. If the next generation is radicalized by Trump being a bad president, they’re not just going to lean left. They’re going to lean regressive, totalitarian, super-social-justice left.

    Everyone has already constructed the narrative: Trump is the anti-PC, anti-social-justice candidate. If he wins, he’s going to be the anti-PC, anti-social-justice President. And he will fail. First of all, because he doesn’t really show much sign of knowing what he’s doing. Second of all, because all presidents fail in a sense – 80% of Americans consistently believe the country is headed the wrong direction and the president is the natural fall guy for this trend. And third of all, because even if by some miracle Trump avoids the first two failure modes, the media will say he failed and people will believe them. And when the anti-PC, anti-social-justice President fails, the reaction will be a giant “we told you so” from the social justice movement, and a giant shift of all the disillusioned young people right into their fold.

    Trump is all set to be the biggest gift to the social justice movement in history. They thrive on claims of persecution, claims that they’re the ones fighting a stupid hateful regressive culture that controls everything. And people think that bringing their straw man to life and putting him in the Oval Office is going to help?

    Even if Trump actually wanted to fulfill his promises, he couldn’t, as Curtis Yarvin (you may know him as Moldbug) saw back in January 2017.

    TL;DR: Trump has no people. There are no Trumpists – no people loyal to Trump. And why should they be, when Trump was never ever loyal to anyone, when Trump always conned, backstabbed and betrayed anyone who was working with him.

    https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3167#comment-1732224

    Boldmug Says:
    Comment #379 January 31st, 2017 at 10:30 pm

    The USG is a huge, gigantic, immense thing. It did 10,000 things on December 30 and another 10,000 on January 30. 9,999 of them are exactly the same as they would have been had Hillary won.

    Control of the White House is relevant and has real consequences for real people, sure. But… adjust your eyes, because the rule is always more important than the exception. If the rule looked at all like it was actually changing, don’t you think I’d let you know?

    I just don’t think Trump would do it, though. Also — I forget the source of the quote, but it is an actual quote from someone who was somehow connected to DC — “Trump has no people.”

    You can’t have regime change without some kind of alternate government, and there is no such thing. There’s nothing within three orders of magnitude of being ready to become the next regime. I mean, is there? If there is, I don’t know about it. Not that I would, obviously.

    So was there any rational reason to support Donald back in 2016, when the smartest people of the rationalist alt-right saw him as the fraud he always was?

    Yes, Syria and Syria alone. Remember that one of Hillary’s promises was no fly zone over Syria.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-syria-no-fly-zone-third-debate_n_58084280e4b0180a36e91a53

    What was the chance that President Hillary Clinton would actually follow this promise and declare no fly zone to protect the moderate rebels, chance that Russia would send their planes to bomb the rebels anyway, chance that Clinton would order to shoot down Russian planes instead of issuing strongly worded protest, chance that the order would be obeyed instead of being mysteriously delayed in transmission, chance that Russia will retaliate against US forces elsewhere, chance that more steps on the escalation ladder will follow all the way up to WW3? Hard to calculate.

    Was the rise of wokeness under Trump

    worth tiny decline of probability of global nuclear apocalypse?
    Your call, your choice.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Ano4
  32. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    No problem. Now you know how I feel when the merciless mob chews me out for a spelling infraction. 🙂

    • Replies: @A123
  33. A123 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Now you know how I feel when the merciless mob chews me out for a spelling infraction

    Could be worse.

    PEACE 😇
     

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  34. Mr. Hack says:
    @A123

    I’m sure that it has. 🙂

  35. Ano4 says:
    @another anon

    Everything you wrote makes perfect sense, and still you miss the point. You are too narrowly focused on Trump, on US of A and on the “current year” (in fact on more or less the current decade 2015 – 2025).

    History is dialectics, between creation and destruction; enthalpy and entropy. It is a flow of information unfolding in time. It is a process. The process, of which the current election is but a small part, has started long ago and is aimed further down the line into the future. Trump, Hillary, Biden, Obama, Putin are just nodes in a causal flow. They do not define the history unfolding in front of our eyes. They are defined by this history.

    The Right has always been too obsessed with the Fürherprinzip. The Left has understood historical development as a process, we need to learn from the Left.

    “Had I not been present in 1917 in Petersburg, the October Revolution would still have taken place – on the condition that Lenin was present and in command,” Trotsky remarked in his Diary in Exile

    https://www.marxist.com/the-individual-and-the-marxist-view-of-history.htm

    The question therefore is what is this process, where is it headed?

    I have come to some personal opinions about this question, and these opinions influence my view of the current US and global situation. And in accordance with these views I would still support Trump in 2016 and still support him today. Not because he was the man for the job, not because he was able to achieve much, but because he was the only one available.

    Beggars can’t be choosers.

    Moldbug and his ilk are very smart and talkative, but except for talking about the “Cathedral ” and other tall tales, did they organize anything?

    What is the future the likes of Nick Land prophesied as inevitable and do we really want to go there?

    All these guys are prophets of doom, and if we believe them then the contest is already lost for all the decent people worldwide. But I don’t believe them. I don’t think becoming cynical and bitter will help.

    • Replies: @AP
  36. AP says:
    @Ano4

    History is dialectics, between creation and destruction; enthalpy and entropy. It is a flow of information unfolding in time. It is a process. The process, of which the current election is but a small part, has started long ago and is aimed further down the line into the future. Trump, Hillary, Biden, Obama, Putin are just nodes in a causal flow. They do not define the history unfolding in front of our eyes. They are defined by this history.

    The Right has always been too obsessed with the Fürherprinzip. The Left has understood historical development as a process, we need to learn from the Left.

    Yours is a very Eastern take, one I disagree with, too empty of personal agency. I’ll follow you to a point though: history is a dialectic also between individuals and their circumstances. Lenin, Hitler, Napoleon, to a lesser extent people like Trump etc. were all of products of their times, but they also sharply directed the stream of history. They arose from a process (that had been steered by other individuals) but also created a new one. They are far from irrelevant. As is true of all of us, whose impact on world history is of lesser magnitude.

    I agree with the rest of your post, though.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  37. EldnahYm says:
    @Ano4

    Some gays are clearly on the right side of history: Glen Greenwald, Peter Thiel etc.

    While it’s not the main point of your post, it has to be said that Glenn Greenwald supported the Iraq War and Peter Thiel’s Palantir is deeply interconnected with the worst sorts of people in the U.S. government.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  38. Ano4 says:
    @AP

    empty of personal agency

    Conversely, it might be said that these persons become the embodiment of certain aspects of historical processes. These processes being non-linear and complex, the peculiarities in the psychology and behavior of these historical figures acquire a deep impact on the outcome of historical events. The description of Napoleon in War and Peace comes to mind. But all the while, these people are still entirely conditioned as we all are.

    • Replies: @AP
  39. Ano4 says:
    @EldnahYm

    I never said that gays are perfect beings. I must insist that we look past the personal quirks and existential accidents and more into the historical forces or Archetypes in play before our very eyes.

    An example: I have no idea whether Klaus Schwab is gay or straight, but these days his name is clearly surfacing connected with a lot of interesting things. People like him are at least as important as Trump is, perhaps more, but I have still to see him mentioned in the conversations on UR.

    Why? Probably because he is not an American politician…

    🙂

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  40. @Ano4

    Why do they all look like this?

    • Agree: Ano4
  41. AP says:
    @Ano4

    Conversely, it might be said that these persons become the embodiment of certain aspects of historical processes.

    It is just a tendentious interpretation. If Hitler or Lenin did x, they embodied an inevitable historical process. But if they had done something completely different, y, than one could equally say that they embodied a historical process. If one believes that free will and individuality are illusions than all actions become reflections of inevitable historical processes and even historical figures are just interchangeable objects. Do really think that if Hitler had been killed in the trenches, or Lenin had been executed rather than exiled, that 20th century history would have been more or less the same? Or on a more mundane level, if one of your great-grandparents has died in infancy your family history would have been about the same, someone interchangeable would have filled in?

    It’s a very passive, fatalistic worldview. More Hindu than Buddhist (?), though perhaps both – I defer to your expertise in the Eastern religions.

    The description of Napoleon in War and Peace comes to mind. But all the while, these people are still entirely conditioned as we all are.

    Is Tolstoy much of an authority though? He seems to have been spiritually confused if not corrupt. People can and do transcend conditioning.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
  42. Ano4 says:
    @AP

    It is a very interesting and complex topic, I would be pleased to explore it with you on the next Open Thread.

    Let’s just say for now that Mr Trump is a quite flawed embodiment of American populism, while Herr Schwab is a fine example of European technocratic globalism. Would these two historical tendencies be different without these two people? Possibly. Would these two historical tendencies disappear if these two people disappeared? Probably not.

  43. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    It’s the same old “what came first, the chicken or the egg” conundrum. Historical process vs strong individual imprint. We’ll never really know, you’ll only get tangled up in an unsolvable riddle. It looks like it could be fun for you and Ano4 to try and figure it out – good luck! 🙂

    • Agree: Ano4
  44. @AP

    FWIW, I agree with this take. Clearly both Lenin and Hitler were highly exceptional figures and things would not have turned out the way they did in their absence (considering that their successes were, in both cases, dependent on a series of narrow contingencies).

    Incidentally, my guess is that the best candidate to play the role of a Lenin this century is some “famous within narrow circles” charismatic American leftist podcaster.

    • Thanks: AP
    • Replies: @Ano4
  45. Ano4 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Neither Ulyanov, nor Schiklegruber would have gotten very far without their enablers, allies and followers. They were only focal points of organization of powerful socioeconomic trends. As with all complex systems, human social evolution is somewhat non-linear. This makes the individual factor significant, but it still must be placed into its historical framework to be really influential.

    Ulyanov understood this very well and wrote about this from the Marxist perspective.

    Schiklegruber might have also come to similar conclusions in a racialist and nationalist intellectual framework.

    Ein Volk ein Reich ein Führer might also mean that without the people and the state/empire a leader is not a leader at all…

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