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Both futurist progressives and right-wing obscurantists (such as Dreher and Dugin) often regard transgenderism as a subset of transhumanism.

This gets it 100% backwards.

At current tech levels, gender reassignment surgery is just glorified mutilation. Transhumanism is about human augmentation, not incapacitation.

You don’t augment yourself in any way whatsoever by transitioning towards an ersatz version of the other sex. You become infertile and develop many hormonal and psychological problems. Actively pushing people into it, especially children, as seems to be increasingly happening in many Western countries, is evil.

Most techs that might be considered to be transhumanist are currently prospective, if not speculative. That said, things such as pacemakers and contact lenses should quality. Maybe even spectacles – the Renaissance Italian invention that allowed many scholars to effectively double their working lives. After all, affixing a thin screen of chemically and thermally processed sand in front of your eyes isn’t entirely natural.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Transgenderism, Transhumanism 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    • LOL: Anonymoose
  2. SFG says:

    The transgendered person would argue they’re even more defective in their presurgical state as their body doesn’t match their brain, and the surgery brings them closer to the theoretical ideal.

    I agree with you…I personally blame endocrine disruptors.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  3. Tusk says:

    Transgender: Castrate yourself with surgery and/or chemicals and use iphones https://efukt.com/22429_My_life_without_a_cock.html
    Transhuman: Augment yourself with bionic penis and use custom ROM’s embedded in your brain
    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/beauty/for-men/man-born-without-penis-given-91477-bionic-organ-by-surgeons/news-story/66e82da2e560ad6ff2b1afbd4c2d16c2

    • Replies: @Oblong
  4. Yevardian says:

    Never realised I’d agree with Dugin about anything. Getting an opposable cyber benis or a cyber vaj that doubled as a trash compacter might be cool though.

  5. Lo says:

    Congratulations Anatoly, you might have posted the first post on this site that everyone will agree with. Insane parents in the West take their toddlers’ words seriously if the unfortunate boy mutters something like “I like boys more,” without having any idea about sexuality. There are plenty of pre-pubescent kids who are being treated as if their sex is the opposite of the way they are born by their parents. Many of them will probably end up with mental illness or suicide. Sad.

    • Replies: @ImmortalRationalist
  6. dfordoom says: • Website

    Maybe even spectacles – the Renaissance Italian invention that allowed many scholars to effectively double their working lives.

    A 13th century invention, so I’d call them medieval technology.

  7. utu says:

    No question that Dugin and Dreher are right in this case.

    • Agree: Kent Nationalist
  8. If our host can accept that transhumanism, at least in some of its forms, can be bad.

    After all, it’s a kind of extreme individualism embedded in there. The individual does not like, is not satisfied, and at the same time completely fixated with the human body that’s his or hers.

    On the other hand, I cannot imagine many of us really truly like our own human body 100 percent. Normal people, say, go into fiction reading, while brave or foolhardy or unfortunate ones choose or get forced into the operation room.

  9. Pericles says:
    @SFG

    The transgendered person would argue they’re even more defective in their presurgical state as their body doesn’t match their brain, and the surgery brings them closer to the theoretical ideal.

    Yes, but they are deluded and/or dishonest. Not to hammer on the topic, consider the ‘breastfeeding bearded tranny’ and suchlike. Yet what man wants to become pregnant? The ‘brain in wrong body’ claim is evidently not true.

  10. dfbmfd says: • Website

    The tech sector and nerds most probably has a lot to do with the spread of moral decadence and globehomo since the 60s, by popularizing libertarianism, or the debasement and deligitimization of moral standards. Simply by popularizing the mantra that society should not mind private moral affairs.

    • Replies: @neutral
  11. Maybe even spectacles – the Renaissance Italian invention that allowed many scholars to effectively double their working lives. After all, affixing a thin screen of chemically and thermally processed sand in front of your eyes isn’t entirely natural.

    Wouldn’t really consider that to be transhumanism. By that logic clothes, shoes, soaps, birches and food are transhuman techs as well. Moreover there is a stark difference between eye enhacing technologies such as contact lenses, specatacles and something like intelligence augmentation or life extension which requires genetic editing or some sort of human-computer interface in the case of neural augmentation.

    • Replies: @adreadline
  12. neutral says:
    @dfbmfd

    The tech sector and nerds most probably has a lot to do with the spread of moral decadence and globehomo since the 60s

    I find this hard to believe, 99.99% of people get their ideas and values from the consumption of pop culture. This means Hollywood, and other mass entertainment outlets, basically totally jew dominated outlets. If you believe that people like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in any way influenced our morals, then I would like to know how. The current tech tyrants of are getting all the moral direction from the ADL and blue haired SJW HR staff, both of which did not originate in the tech sector.

    • Replies: @WHAT
  13. @Lo


    The silver lining is that those sorts of parents are weeding themselves out of the gene pool.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @dfordoom
  14. I think I can lean a tad in your direction here. But that is very limited to the use of technology to improve, repair conditions in which the tech actually enables one to engage in human activities that might not otherwise be able to because of a disability.

    And in some of these areas, I have to utterly be silent.

    The arguments that support changing one’s biology to a different gender are of course — incorrect in many ways. But when we talk about giving someone sight, sound, a limb, voice, I think there is plenty of room to support such technology.

    One issue that was in the forefront of course is that of relational expression. And i found myself considering the life of someone who was chairbound — I could not in good conscience contend against the use of technology to enable intimate exchanges between male and female spouses using technology, a chip or some other tech mechanism. But again this was not changing one’s human state, but actually enabling what would otherwise be a natural dynamic.

    Again, the specifics matter — gender reassignment — impossible in my view because of DNA coding is where I could definitely say — out of bounds and destructive.

  15. Maybe even spectacles – the Renaissance Italian invention that allowed many scholars to effectively double their working lives. After all, affixing a thin screen of chemically and thermally processed sand in front of your eyes isn’t entirely natural.

    Maybe even pants – the Paleolithic invention that allowed many hunter-gatherers to effectively extend their area thousands of miles to the north. After all, affixing a heap of chemically and mechanically processed animal skins to your crotch isn’t entirely natural.

  16. At current tech levels, gender reassignment surgery is just glorified mutilation. Transhumanism is about human augmentation, not incapacitation.

    Isn’t this similar to saying that alchemists didn’t hold transhumanistic beliefs since imbibing mercury doesn’t lead to immortality?

    So is Transhumanism broadly aimed at《liberating the human being from the limitations of the body》,or does it have more specific purposes?

    If the former then I would consider Transexualism to be a subset of Transhumanism. If it is the latter, then Transhumanism would be assumed to be a subset of a group that also includes Transsexualism and Transracialism.

    But similar starting points do not necessarily lead to similar end points, so whether this elucidates or obscures the vital questions are another matter.

    (By the way, the Dugin link is broken when I try to access it)

  17. Pericles says:
    @ImmortalRationalist

    Unfortunately, approximately all kids then have to go through 10-15 years of conversion therapy. Thus, the shitlibs sustain themselves.

  18. I suppose a futurist “progressive” would consider today’s transsexuals pioneers who are paving the way for future technologies by allowing themselves to become human experiments. After all, all surgeries and treatments had to be developed by trial and error and there were always lots of failures before success. A lot of scientific pioneers experimented on themselves or test subjects of various levels of consent (it has always been possible to convince crazy people to allow crazy experiments on themselves) and the results were sometimes gruesome but that’s how we got modern medicine.

    With sufficiently advanced technology you should actually be able to change sex. Granted, it would take levels of tech that currently seem magical but who knows what bioengineering can do in a century or two. Pushing this on children is incredibly cruel but that experiment will eventually end as those kids mature into screwed up bitter adults and the resulting lawsuits start destroying sex change clinics. The sex changing billionaires on the other hand might produce useful side results from their perverse pursuits as the research that goes into constructing their artificial genitals will also benefit future individuals who need genital reconstruction due to injuries or disease.

    • Agree: Mitleser, Johann Ricke
    • LOL: Dmitry
    • Replies: @dfbmfd
    , @WHAT
    , @Dmitry
  19. dfbmfd says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Hence this is the reason by transhumanists and transexualists, all of them deserve to have their head mounted on pikes. If you read star trek history, transhumanists actually ended up being democided, hence why there are only regular humans on the show, and no genetcally engineered superhumans either, I think this also happened in the Starcraft universe.

  20. Your transhumanism reminds me of

    Deus Ex: Mankind Divided video games.

    It takes transhumanism to its logical political arena…

    • Replies: @WHAT
  21. dfordoom says: • Website
    @ImmortalRationalist

    The silver lining is that those sorts of parents are weeding themselves out of the gene pool.

    Liberals don’t need to have children. They’re going to get your children once they go to college.

    The “liberals are dying off because they don’t have enough children” idea is the saddest of all right-wing delusions.

    • Agree: WHAT, Anounder
    • Replies: @Anounder
  22. You, like Galileo Galilei, have enunciated a view that was in recent years uncontroversial, but now is considered heresy. You will ultimately be proven right, but will it do you any good?

  23. Mr. Hack says:

    It seems to me, that transhumanism and all of its consequent variants fails to deal with the larger morass that has engulfed all of mankind, its inability to deal with the ‘ghost in the machine’. Prolonging life without being able to offer humanity a purpoose to live will only result in more and more psychosis of various kinds and desperate ploys like sex change operations are only one manifestation of this malady.

  24. WHAT says:
    @neutral

    Gates popularized infinity niggaz, reducing white fertility and retarded cold water bucket shenanigans.
    Jobs literally killed himself on the altar of retarded veganism(official version; many beleve GRIDS did him in).
    Current Jobs is a literal globohomo agent.

    All are being promoted by media as worthwhile figures to emulate for the goyim.

    • Replies: @anon
  25. WHAT says:
    @AmRusDebate

    DXMD was an awfully crude work from this angle. Literally muh metal raycissm against saintly clanks in robot Aushwitz oy vey.

  26. WHAT says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Were there actually any first-generation billionaires that did this sex-change thing?

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  27. @Mr. Hack

    When the technology is in front of you, you will not grab it. You will ask what purpose does it give you.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  28. Dmitry says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    sex changing billionaires on the other hand might produce useful side results from their perverse pursuits as the research that goes into constructing their artificial genitals

    Lol, but interesting to read Jaakko Raipala – one of the unusual “high IQ” visionaries

  29. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:

    Transgenderism proves how pathetic the eternally complaining right and alt-right really is.
    You folk love to laugh that the leftists are pussies.
    Well, if chopping off your own dick is cowardice, what would bravery look like? Endlessly moaning on the internets how oppressed you are?
    There is a reason why the left is winning on all fronts, while the right is only whining and crying.

  30. Mr. Hack says:
    @yakushimaru

    I don’t think so. Outside of medications (mostly natruropathic), diet, rest and exercise you wont catch me buying a cryogenic sphere to house my body in a mausoleum, waiting for a “cure”. I may be older than you, and I’ve known at least 10 people who’ve commited suicide within my lifetime. Of these, two would be considered family members and one a friend at work. The rest were only acquaintences, the kid accross the street who I only saw through my living room window, the brother of a girl I knew from Ukrainian folk dancing, the sister of my Polish godmother,etc; etc; People from all walks of life and age groups are showing discontent with life in the most dramatic of ways. I don’t see transhumanism addresing these serious psychological and spiritual issues.

  31. @Anonymoose

    Moreover there is a stark difference between eye enhacing technologies such as contact lenses, specatacles and something like intelligence augmentation or life extension which requires genetic editing or some sort of human-computer interface in the case of neural augmentation.

    Would laser eye surgery be a midway point between eyeglasses and intelligence augmentation? And would bionic eyes fall between eye surgery and neural enhancing?

    • Replies: @Anonymoose
  32. @anon

    Some toothless meth addict who apparently hates Trump isn’t exactly a good representative of the “right-wing”. The entire white nationalist movement seems to be just basically commies who have decided that they identify Jews with the capitalist class and blacks and browns with the lumpenproletariat, I don’t understand why these people keep trying to join the right-wing which has never wanted them.

  33. @WHAT

    Hmm. There’s the Pritzker guy who went transgender but he inherited his money.

    Nope, can’t find any billionaires. Googling for transgender and transhumanism at the same time led me to this guy turned “girl”, though…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martine_Rothblatt

    …but he only has 300 million. Still sufficient for entertainment though. “In 2013, Rothblatt was the highest-paid female CEO in America, earning $38 million.” His transhumanist movement just sounds like poz for nerds together with religion substitutes like “life extension” and “singularity”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terasem_Movement

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  34. @Mr. Hack

    without being able to offer humanity a purpoose to live

    Many atheists in the real world, as opposed to the fantasy atheists as imagined by people with more traditional beliefs, seem to find plenty of purpose in life outside of religious constructs. In fact atheists have made enormous contributions to civilization:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technology

    Why would all these atheist men would have bothered if they suffered from “nihilism”?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  35. @Jaakko Raipala

    Rothblatt also fathered children with two different black women, one of them a Kenyan. Apparently he couldn’t attract socially and biologically appropriate Jewish women. He looks like the poster boy for the white nationalists’ model of degeneracy.

  36. @anon

    There’s a reason the left is winning on all fronts

    Well it’s a bit of an overstatement to say “all” fronts, but they certainly have the advantage and there is certainly a reason. That reason being massive institutional and corporate backing for the “progressive” movement, the supposed “bravery” displayed by a mentally ill man who has an unethical surgeon destroy his genitals really doesn’t enter into it.

    • Replies: @anon
  37. Had to chuckle at the “transhuman” nature of spectacles, given that they’re an exterior tool, not a surgical eye implant. If all it takes is for a tool to enhance human capabilities while its in use for it to be transhuman, why not go even earlier, to the bow and arrow say? After all, the bow greatly increased the range at which men could kill prey or damage their rivals in battle, almost akin to a bionic arm!

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  38. I have some experience with the cryonics subculture, and while in general it acts like “female Kryptonite,” in that it attracts way more men than women, I’ve noticed that the few women it does attract seem pretty dysfunctional.

    Like this post-Wall broad who works for Alcor. She has no husband, no children, and she has cryopreserved her dead pets because she views them as her “children” and her “family.”

    I feel sad for women like this. And this example lacks the self-awareness to see how pathetic she sounds:

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
  39. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:

    “After all, affixing a thin screen of chemically and thermally processed sand in front of your eyes isn’t entirely natural.”

    No homo!

  40. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @WHAT

    “Gates popularized infinity niggaz, reducing white fertility and retarded cold water bucket shenanigans.”

    And you wonder why they’re winning.

    “Now who can argue with that? I think we’re all indebted to Gabby Johnson for clearly stating what needed to be said. I’m particularly glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age.”

    • Replies: @WHAT
  41. anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    Well it’s a bit of an overstatement to say “all” fronts, but they certainly have the advantage and there is certainly a reason.

    This backing is because the left fought hard, sacrificed all and won.
    While the modern right whines, moans and cries when someone splashes them with milkshake. Behold the master race.

    That reason being massive institutional and corporate backing for the “progressive” movement, the supposed “bravery” displayed by a mentally ill man who has an unethical surgeon destroy his genitals really doesn’t enter into it.

    The kind of people who are cutting their dicks today, were the rebels and revolutionaries of yesterday, who sacrificed their lives in the millions for their cause.
    Be thankful that TPTB are smarter than you and were able to redirect this revolutionary energy into transgenderism.

  42. Anti-aging life extension is the killer app for bio-engineering, not designer babies and the like. Anti-aging bio-engineering includes stuff like senolytics, cellular reprogramming, SENS, somatic cell gene therapy (especially that targeting stem cells only), and the like. This stuff is real and is being developed very quickly. I call this the bio-engineering “transhumanism”. In this context, transhumanism is simply a 64 dollar word that describes what will be nothing more than routine medicine in the future.

    Then there is all of the speculation on A.I., “uploading” of human identities into computers, and the like, what media sloppy articles call transhumanism. Of course I consider this to be mostly hype.

    I do think cryonics can work providing neuro-preservation with high enough fidelity. Regenerating a body around that brain using some sort of stem-cell based regenerative process (the stem cells could be based on synthetic biology) is entirely plausible to me. Further on down the road we could have molecular level repair capability for the brain. In any case, all of this is based on biology. We will be biological for the next few centuries at last (synthetic biology possibly).

    Full disclosure: For all intents and purposes, as a life extensionist you can consider me a “biological transhumanist”. If you include us life extensionists into the mix, we out number the so-called transhumanists probably a hundred to one.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  43. In a sense, anti-aging life extension is not transhumanism at all. It is merely therapeutic. Aging is a dysfunction, no different than any other dysfunction like cancer and the like. Anti-aging is the mere restoration of the body to its former functional state. This is called homeostasis.

    • Replies: @neutral
  44. This reminds me of the time I learned that Ray Kurzweil had an obsession with experiencing himself as a woman. I felt betrayed.

    A lot of the most tech-enthusiastic are, for reasons I don’t understand, also fascinated with ‘being women’. transhumanism doesn’t necessarily need to include technologies which allow men to simulate being women, but pretty clearly interest in the two is correlated to some non trivial extent, probably with two clusters, those who are like Karlin and think trannies are fucking bizarre, and those like Kurzweil and that guy who went to B school with Sailer.

    I have no doubt that if we had Deus Ex MD level aug tech today, that a lot of Silicon Valley ultra high IQ types would be using it to give themselves robo-cunts. Freaking weird! Spray with napalm.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  45. @anon

    Be thankful that TPTB are smarter than you and were able to redirect this revolutionary energy into transgenderism.

    The transgender stuff is _so_ crazy that it seems like the elites are enjoying a joke–slam dunking wackiness first on academe, the mass media, hollywood etal and then on the public just to prove they _can_. (Perhaps it is some kind of mind control experiment–reward those who submit, punish those who resist–identify anyone who resists as having a strong will and therefore a potential danger to authority?)

    The transhuman stuff is serious–and the combining of human and machines is where “civilization” is headed–if we don’t use dysgenics to turn the entire planet into a wasteland of cargo cults.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  46. anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @Boswald Bollocksworth

    Indeed. As said comrade Stalin, no mercy to the degenerates!

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  47. neutral says:
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Aging is a dysfunction

    It is a fundamental part of nature, if you consider this dysfunction then you can call all natural life dysfunctional.

  48. @Justvisiting

    The transgender stuff is _so_ crazy that it seems like the elites are enjoying a joke

    Of course not. Don’t be an absolute idiot.

    The elites follow a very specific religion (a strain of Gnosticism), a very old, very established religion that has incredibly deep roots on the European continent.

    Androgyny is a huge part (even a sacred rite of sorts) in this religion.

    See traces of it in ancient Greek culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphroditus#Cult_and_worship), modern cults (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoptsy), debased references in popular culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato), etc., etc., too much to list in just one post.

    It only seems like a joke or a madness to you because it’s a deeply held religious belief, from a religion you’re not in intimate contact with.

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
  49. @anon

    Transgenderism proves how pathetic the eternally complaining right and alt-right really is.
    You folk love to laugh that the leftists are pussies.
    Well, if chopping off your own dick is cowardice, what would bravery look like? Endlessly moaning on the internets how oppressed you are?
    There is a reason why the left is winning on all fronts, while the right is only whining and crying.

    I believe Steve Sailer has pointed out many (possibly not most, though) late male-to-female transexuals are right-wing and often have manly interests and occupations that at least in theory do not go well with cowardice, such as being US Navy SEALs.

    But indeed, what bravery looks like? I’d argue it looks like this, which also happens to be very transhumanistic. I don’t think you can get braver or more transhuman than that.

  50. Anonymous[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @neutral

    Starvation and plague are fundamental parts of nature.
    Are you posting from your cave, using the latest model of iStone?

  51. @neutral

    Conditions such as cancer and malaria are natural as well. Any reduction in the efficacy of my mind and body is a dysfunction, pure and simple. Whether something is “natural” or not is irrelevant.

    Experiencing dysfunctionality is simply not my cup of tea.

  52. Mr. Hack says:
    @advancedatheist

    I didn’t mention the word “religion” (although I was thinking about it, especially Christianity). Sure, there may be some atheists that seem content with their lives, however, atheists (from what I’ve read) as a whole don’t exhibit a propensity for lesser suicide rates that are smaller than the the rest of general society. Indeed, their suicide rates may be even slightly higher.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
  53. @Mr. Hack

    I think we would all agree that in this context, “religion” means having a long term vision and purpose in life. This can be based on traditional beliefs or it can be based on something else entirely. The point is to have a long-term purpose or objective in life.

  54. I think transgenderism, as a phenomenon, is real and is largely due to environmental xenoestrogens.

  55. That said, things such as pacemakers and contact lenses should quality

    Pirates were also early transhumanists with their wooden leg and metal hook arm prosthetics that allowed them to effectively double their working lives.

    • LOL: WHAT
  56. I am one of the people who agree with Dugin on this one.

    right-wing obscurantists

    Dugin may be one, but it is possible that at the bottom of the transhumanism push one can find ancient conspiracies, similarly seeped in mysticism.

    “When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom].”

    That’s a quote from the gnostic (heretical) gospel of Thomas. I don’t want to say that it’s about transhumanism because it would reinforce Anatoly’s idea that all technology is transhumanism, but it’s a pretty freaky quote nonetheless.

    As a lowly human I oppose any plans to exterminate humanity, which is what transhumanism ultimately means.

  57. WHAT says:
    @anon

    Don`t ascribe me your wonderings, please.

  58. Anounder says:
    @dfordoom

    It also ignores the obvious problem of non-White demographics. Indeed progressives are less fertile from a combo of factors (feminism, more common acceptance of degenerate sexuality like sodomy), but they either know this or work plans to account for that. They advocate mass immigration since immigrants will vote for the the Poz Party regardless of their own attitude towards sodomy since:

    A. They hate Whitey and see him as the enemy they need to crush.

    B. The Poz Party will let their cousins migrate in.

    It goes on and on until your country is 56%.

  59. I concur with Anatoly that “gender reassignment surgery is just glorified mutilation.” But we should acknowledge that there is another sick form of mutilation, which goes under the radar and is performed a million times a year in the US, and is perfectly legal, even viewed as a good thing by millions. I speak of Male Genital Mutilation done to infants (aka circumcision).

    Anatoly is lucky to come from a country that never fell for the circumcision scam, as few males there, outside of Jews and Muslims, ever had their penis forcibly reduced in size and desensitized, diminishing their sexual pleasure for life. No wonder American men are so angry.

  60. @adreadline

    Bionic eyes would fall under neural enhancing. Laser eye surgery is usually done to correct things like myopia rather than create superior vision so wouldn’t really consider it neural enhancment imo.

    • Replies: @adreadline
  61. utu says:

    I think Karlin should postpone the resolution of the squabble between the transhumanist faction and the transgenderist faction until he assumes the total control and power. Only then his SS-transhumanist troops can take care of the SA-transgenderist faction on the Night of the Long Knives. In the meantime he should not alienate the transgenederists as well as the morphinists.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  62. @Anonymoose

    Laser eye surgery is usually done to correct things like myopia rather than create superior vision so wouldn’t really consider it neural enhancment imo.

    Well put, as it leads to another question: does it matter whether someone has laser surgery (or has bionic eyes implanted) to correct vision defects in opposition to going over the same procedure in order to achieve superior vision? Suppose bionic eyes gave someone enhanced vision, better than that of anyone with natural eyes, even people with 20/20 eyesight. Would it be more acceptable if the recipient were blind than if he were not, as he’d end up with unparalled eyesight anyway? (In the same vein, I recall there being some minor controversy over Oscar Pistorius’ prosthetics supposedly giving him an advantage over runners with intact legs)

    • Replies: @Anonymoose
  63. Mr. Hack says:
    @utu

    Don’t forget the day tripping faction! 🙂

  64. NYMOM says:

    It’s like your President Putin recently said: all of this focus on homosexuals and transexuals is a form of psychological grooming to make it easier for these people to recruit young people into their orbit…

    Just look at what that Michael Jackson accomplished with his ‘grooming’ of those young kids, even implicating their parents by offering shopping sprees and luxury vacations so Jackson could pursuade the parents to allow their sons to have ‘sleep-overs’ with him at his Neverland ranch.

    This is just another form of grooming of young people and should be treated accordingly.

  65. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:

    As we saw previously, LGBTQ is winning and alt-right is losing. Everything, everywhere, everytime.
    The future is here, rainbow and bright.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  66. …lenses should quality.

    maybe “qualify” should be the word here?

    Anyway, wonder how many of those who made gender surgeries or want to do it, actually know and understand such thing as XY sex-determination system found in humans when the sex of an individual is determined by a pair of sex chromosomes. Females have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), males have two different kinds of sex chromosomes (XY).

    It is possible that in the future science will find the way to change already existing set of sex chromosomes, but so far sex change remains only a legal fiction. Of course, there are other traditionally established legal fictions like adoption, when genetically non related people are considered as such legally.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  67. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anonymous

    Indeed. As said comrade Stalin, no mercy to the degenerates!

    Stalin was pretty based. No-one would have called Stalin a cuck.

  68. It’s like your President Putin recently said: all of this focus on homosexuals and transexuals is a form of psychological grooming to make it easier for these people to recruit young people into their orbit…

    of course, who should know it all better than expert practitioner of physical boy grooming himself:

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  69. anonymous[328] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Donald now speaks about bitcoin.
    Good or bad news?
    Time to buy or sell?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  70. @Anonymous

    Alt-right was always a couple of people on the internet. They’re not even losing, they were never even a real movement.

    In the real world nationalist-populists are becoming the biggest parties in Europe. It’s slow but we’re getting there and eventually the gays will be shoved back in the closet.

  71. @sudden death

    Anyway, wonder how many of those who made gender surgeries or want to do it, actually know and understand such thing as XY sex-determination system found in humans when the sex of an individual is determined by a pair of sex chromosomes. Females have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), males have two different kinds of sex chromosomes (XY).

    They probably understand it while you clearly don’t. The chromosomes are just a developmental trigger. At a certain stage of fetal development, the Y-chromosome will trigger the turn of the gonads into testes which release of certain hormones which will trigger the development of the testes which will produce more male hormones etc. The Y-chromosome only provides the initial coin flip, it does not contain any “male code”, and the presence of sex chromosome is totally irrelevant after the initial coin flip (which sometimes fails to follow the chromosomes and other triggers override it, resulting in an XX male or an XY female).

    You do not have to change the sex chromosomes in existing cells to change the sex of an individual because the chromosomes don’t do anything at all at that point. Conversely, replacing the sex chromosomes in an adult would not change their sex. You could replace all of my Y chromosomes in all of my cells with an X and it wouldn’t make me at all female. The XX cells in a male body exposed to male hormones would just develop phenotypically male after division. The one major thing that would change if you changed an adults sex chromosomes is that it would create fertility problems as making new humans is only part where the sex chromosomes matter. Other than that changing an adult’s sex chromosomes wouldn’t really do much.

    The code to produce a male or a female is in all of your DNA and even an XX individual has all the genetic information to produce a male if development towards male somehow gets triggered despite the lack of the Y chromosome. It’s entirely possible to have an XX male or XY female if the trigger somehow misfires.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

    Ironically some of the most feminine individuals are XY, people whose cells have no response to male hormones develop into extremely feminine females even if they have XY chromosomes. They will still be unable to have children as the Y-chromosome triggers the development of testes instead of ovaries but the lack of response to male hormones leads to otherwise female phenotype. Nature has already done this experiment for us – XX and XY simply don’t matter in an adult phenotype, they’re just a coin flip in embryonic development.

    • Replies: @sudden death
  72. @Jaakko Raipala

    Conversely, replacing the sex chromosomes in an adult would not change their sex. You could replace all of my Y chromosomes in all of my cells with an X and it wouldn’t make me at all female.The XX cells in a male body exposed to male hormones would just develop phenotypically male after division.

    For the record, I’m not geneticist or even hobbyist geneticist, but unless I’m completely misinformed, nobody so far has managed to replace the sex chromosomes in an adult, so nobody actually really has observed what would happen or not after such change.

    Other than that changing an adult’s sex chromosomes wouldn’t really do much.

    Once again, unless I’m completely misinformed, it would have quite the consequences in real world as of today, cause if somebody would make a crime after changing sex chromosomes, then DNA identification of suspect’s sex would become useless as forensic science procedures is based on indication of the sex chromosomes, e.g. if the suspect is woman there should be presence of two different X chromosomes. That means you need to identify the DNA sequence on part of the X chromosome.

    Of course, at the moment I don’t know how forensic science is dealing with such things as XX_male_syndrome but probably there too few cases of such abnormalities in order to have practical impact on crime solving.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  73. @Mr. Hack

    Personally, I’ve been hearing all my life about the Serious Philosophical Issues posed by life extension, and my attitude has always been that I’m willing to grapple with those issues for as many centuries as it takes. – Patrick Hayden.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
  74. @WHAT

    It was certainly a disappointment.

  75. @anon

    There was a religious sect called the skoptsy in Imperial Russia that cut off their dicks… the transgender movement activists today seem sort of similar.

    Weird sectants.

    The PWTB support transgenders because it’s not something they would ever let their own children engage in. No threat to the established order. Typical transgender is some leftist prole. In fact if you think about it, it is the truly dangerous ideas, such as eugenics (which actually can undermine the established order – can there be much of an elite if everyone was to max out their IQ?), that are the ones that are marginalized.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  76. @Abelard Lindsey

    Incidentally, speaking of the second category of transhumanists, Robin Hanson recently raised his probability estimate of his Age of Ems scenario coming to pass to 80%.

    http://www.overcomingbias.com/2019/07/why-age-of-em-will-happen.html

  77. @anonymous

    If Donald can’t do anything about all of his supporters being ejected from the Internet he’s certainly not going to shut down Bitcoin.

    Anyhow I was quite happy to have tripled my investment these past few months.

  78. anonymous[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    The PWTB support transgenders because it’s not something they would ever let their own children engage in. No threat to the established order. Typical transgender is some leftist prole.

    This seems to be true. Gofundme and similar sites are full of tg people begging for money for their surgeries and drugs.
    If you thought that Soros is showering every transgender person with gold, you were mistaken. 😉

    More seriously, if you want to know where the TG mania came from, who finances the movement and why, look at this.

    https://medium.com/@sue.donym1984/inauthentic-selves-the-modern-lgbtq-movement-is-run-by-philanthropic-astroturf-and-based-on-junk-d08eb6aa1a4b

    TL;DR: It is the big pharma.
    Why? Follow the money.
    Every transgendered person is guaranteed lifelong customer of very expensive drugs and treatments.
    Capitalism working as intended.
    As wise Muslim woman of color said: “It’s all about the Benjamins, baby!”

  79. anonymous[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Ems are horror story, unrealistic and absurd as most horror stories. Even dumber than the infamous Roko’s basilisk.

    If/when we understand how brain works, we could design something much better than the kludge of human mind, as better as airplanes are better than birds.

    Making emulated human personality for slave labor would be like making mechanical horses and birds instead of planes and cars.

  80. @sudden death

    For the record, I’m not geneticist or even hobbyist geneticist, but unless I’m completely misinformed,

    You are indeed completely misinformed. That LBGT weirdos get criticized with ignorance on the level of “chromosomes determine the sex of cells” is why the left is winning – as strange as the trans activists are, it’s much easier to sympathize with their hazy knowledge than the usual complete lack of knowledge shown by their right-wing opponents.

    nobody so far has managed to replace the sex chromosomes in an adult, so nobody actually really has observed what would happen or not after such change.

    Blood transfusions, organ transplants, cell transfusions, we have put cells from XX females into XY males and vice versa. It’s done all the time. The cells adapt to the person receiving the transplant and as they divide you’ll have phenotypically male XX cells in an otherwise XY individual and vice versa.

    We do know very well how sex determination works in humans and chromosomes do nothing to determine the phenotypical gender of individual cells in an adult (as much as you can even say that blood cells, skin cells etc have a phenotypical gender). If you transplant XX cells from a female to a male, you’ll just end up with phenotypically male XX cells in a male individual because the cells follow hormones, not chromosomes.

    What the Y chromosome does in sex determination is that it triggers the transformation of the gonads into testes in an early embryonic stage. They then start producing male hormones which start the cascade of development of the embryo as a male. Chromosomes have no other role in gender. Chromosomes play their role in sex determination in the first weeks of an individuals life as an embryo and after that they’re totally irrelevant. There’s just one gene in the Y chromosome that’s relevant to gender…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testis-determining_factor

    …and it’s the trigger that plays its role in the first few weeks. Of course there are other consequences from having XY chromosomes instead of XX. The Y chromosome has almost no genes so any recessive trait on the X chromosome is going to be much more common in males than in females. The most common form of color blindness, for example, is on the X and females only get it if they have the color blindness on both of their X’s but males get it if they have it on their single X, thus the color blindness is more common in men. But all the X traits exist in both genders in just different frequencies.

    You have an unfortunately common but ridiculous magical view of chromosomes stemming from only knowing that XX is associated with females and XY with males, therefore XX or XY in an adult cell means it’s somehow female or male. No. It’s just a trigger. You’ll almost always have XX in a female and XY in a male as a legacy from the first few weeks of embryo development but it’s just a legacy from how sex determination is done in the early stage.

    The Y chromosome, for example, does not code for beards. It just triggered the development of testes which led to the hormonal cascade that starts male beard growth at puberty. If you inject male hormones into an XX female, their XX cells will respond exactly the same way and start growing a beard. The reason transsexuals don’t transform fully thanks to injected hormones is that they’ve already lived years under different hormones and you can’t change existing bone structure, years of aging according to patterns of the original gender etc. The reason isn’t that chromosomes would prevent it. A beard grown from XX cells is not different.

    • Replies: @sudden death
  81. @Anatoly Karlin

    Brian Wang (nextBigFuture) just posted that the problems plaguing EUV have finally been resolved (developing EUV has been a 15 year bitch on the part of ASML) meaning that we get another 10 years of Moore’s Law, down to the 2nm design rule, which WILL be the hard limit. Maybe with arrays of AFM tips, they might get around this limit. So, we’ll see.

    I still think its not happening in the foreseeable future because of the inherent complexities of neurobiology.
    Tim Ditters presents the neurobiology complexity arguments against AI:

    https://timdettmers.com/category/neuroscience/

    These are essentially the same arguments that guys I know in the cryonics scene in the late 80’s had for why there will be no brain emulation in, at least, this century and probably the next. Contrary to common impressions, most people in the cryonics scene are as “biologically” oriented as I am. Most of them do not even think that Eric Drexler’s concept of nanotechnology is possible (remember this?). They expect, as do I, that reanimation will be down via advanced bio-engineering

    Someone’s going to have to make real AI before I’m convinced its possible.

  82. BTW, there is a Russian-based cryonics organization, CryoRus, in the Moscow area, I think. You might want to check them out some time.

    http://kriorus.ru/

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  83. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anon

    There is a reason why the left is winning on all fronts,

    You’re living in a dream world. The Left has lost on all fronts. The Left got taken over by the bankers and billionaires. What calls itself the Left today is a Fake Left. They’re just stooges for global capitalism.

    Mass immigration and degeneracy are promoted by those bankers and billionaires to distract people while they continue to loot us.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack, utu
    • Replies: @Anounder
  84. Anounder says:
    @dfordoom

    “Capititalism” is not an enemy of “The Left.” Has been the case since Marx, who pointed out that the transition to capitalism required the destruction of traditions that occurred in modernity (like the mass employment of women).

  85. @Jaakko Raipala

    Blood transfusions, organ transplants, cell transfusions, we have put cells from XX females into XY males and vice versa. It’s done all the time. The cells adapt to the person receiving the transplant and as they divide you’ll have phenotypically male XX cells in an otherwise XY individual and vice versa.

    This is not equal to completely changing all preexisting sex chromosomes of an individual, so the point about not having done it yet still stands. If somebody took individual saliva sample and did DNA test after blood transfusion and/or organ transplant it would still show original sex intact.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  86. @sudden death

    This is not equal to completely changing all preexisting sex chromosomes of an individual, so the point about not having done it yet still stands.

    This is like saying “you can’t claim that your fancy gravitational science proves that flying by flapping your hands really fast is impossible because no one has actually tried it at the top of the world’s tallest mountain”. An enormous number of everyday experiments on gravitational theory and the lift produced by a human flapping their hands very fast have been done and we can predict with extreme confidence what would happen if some human tried to fly off Mount Everest using hands as wings, even though no one has actually done that experiment.

    Similarly, an enormous number of experiments and studies of chromosomal exceptions and the like have given us a large set of data to back the assertion that sex chromosomes are only developmental triggers for the embryo and they have no direct influence on whether an adult has a male or a female phenotype. So we have well over 99 % certainty to predict what would happen to a male individual if we replaced all the XY chromosomes with XX chromosomes in an adult. Nothing, they’d still be male.

    If somebody took individual saliva sample and did DNA test after blood transfusion and/or organ transplant it would still show original sex intact.

    Even that’s not always true. The Y chromosome is such an inactive thing with few genes that cells in men often end up failing to even copy it. An old man can do a DNA test and he might not have any Y chromosomes left at all in his blood.

    You can also consider obscure but no longer that rare (thanks to IVF) conditions like chimerism. Two embryos can merge to produce an individual that actually has cells with two different DNA and it’s perfectly possible to have a female and male embryo merge to produce an individual from the merger of an XX and an XY embroy. Such humans exist. Whether they become men or women depends mainly on which embryo ends up contributing the cells to the gonads.

    For example, here’s a case of a child that was DNA tested before birth and found to be XY but then she was born female. As they studied the individual further, she turned out to be a chimera with both XX and XY cells (meaning that she is a merger of a sister and a brother embryo) but she is a normal female because her gonad cells are XX:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19344081

    A normal man who is a mixture of XX and XY (again he is made up of a female and male twin who merged into one individual in very early development)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6575956

    Such individuals can have severe abnormalities if they have XX and XY mixed in gonads but if they end up fully XX or XY in their reproductive system they can be normal. Sex chromosomes have no purpose outside of the gonads and the rest of the organs develop according to hormonal cues as male or female regardless of whether they have XX or XY in their cells.

    Of course for the vast majority of people the trigger they experienced as an embroy ends up being the same as the phenotype for their whole life but when it fails to match it doesn’t mean that the individual is somehow magically “actually” male or female depending on their chromosomes.

    Bad biological argument against transsexual surgery: “you can’t change your chromosomes and they’re your real sex !” – no, chromosomes don’t determine adult gender, they’re developmental triggers and XX males and XY females occur even naturally when that developmental trigger sometimes flips. Good biological argument: “you’ve experienced years and years of hormonal levels of your original gender and it’s impossible to reverse those effects on your body” (actually changing all of the chromosomes in your body would do nothing to erase all those years of male/female hormones on bone structure etc)

  87. @anonymous coward

    The elites follow a very specific religion (a strain of Gnosticism), a very old, very established religion that has incredibly deep roots on the European continent.

    And what’s the name by which you refer to this faith, please?

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  88. @WHAT

    Oh, don’t get me wrong. SJW crap the game. Not Cyberpunk (then again, not same depth in its history). It’s the logic of transhumanism becoming competitive…that’s what I was referencing.

  89. @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Others call it Gnosticism, as I said.

    But the practitioners and true believers don’t have a name for their own religion, and never have. (All the names for traditional Gnostic religions – Cathars, Albigensians, Bohomils, etc – are all pejoratives from their enemies.)

    The Gnostics usually label their own as “the good people” or something similar. (Sound familiar?)

    The reason is that Gnosticism rejects all formal authority and believes in boundary-breaking and “progress” of the transgressive kind. They don’t believe in holy books, but they have lots of gurus for the Current Year. (This all should be very familiar too.)

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
  90. Anatoly Karlin: “At current tech levels, gender reassignment surgery is just glorified mutilation. Transhumanism is about human augmentation, not incapacitation.”

    This is a type of body modification, and what’s considered an augmentation is subjective. The ones undergoing such procedures think it’s an augmentation, Karlin doesn’t. So what? Even if what he claims is true, it only means that transgenderism might not be a subset of transhumanism yet, but that one day it could be.

    The broader argument is more interesting. What happens at more advanced “tech levels”? Is there a point at which transgenderism would become, according to Karlin, a subset of transhumanism? Simply dismissing this as prospective, or speculative, as he does, seems rash. It’s already possible to transplant sex and reproductive organs.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/articles/first-ever-penis-and-scrotum-transplant-makes-history-at-johns-hopkins

    When someone who was born a male has given birth and can nurse a child, or someone who was born a female is now hung like a porn star and is as muscular as Arnold Schwarzenegger, will this be considered an augmentation or a mutilation? Any time something new is added, the old is taken away.

    Generally, the project of technology is to replace the natural with the artificial. Transhumanism is nothing less than the idea of replacing the human with something artificial, thought to be an improvement. Carried to its logical conclusion, this must necessarily involve the elimination of boundaries between the natural categories of sex and race, and ultimately the elimination of man himself. The technophilic right, many of them stuck in early twentieth century thinking about eugenics, seems incapable of perceiving this. It’s ironic, and a testament to the ability of human beings to make themselves willfully blind to the implications of their own actions.

    • Agree: Hyperborean
    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  91. Oblong says:
    @Tusk

    I would think the transgender episode is a sort of predictive programming preparing us for what may seem strange, alien, even mutilating in whatever “enhanced /augmented” combinations they dream up. Is gene splicing transhumanism? Are transgenders augmented or enhanced by hormones? It may be a cruel sort of experiment on the path to something less benign than a bionic eye.

  92. anonymous[356] • Disclaimer says:

    The French Galactic Empire is coming.

  93. @adreadline

    I don’t really know if laser surgery helps you achieve more than 20/20 vision. Regarding bionic eyes But I’d guess t would be more acceptable if the patient had blindness or myopia/hyperopia. Such technology still has to be innovated and improved as of yet. I believe most bionic eyes as of now only detect shadows or shape outlines and maybe prints. Don’t know enough about the technology yet.

  94. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    True transgender transhumanism:

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kz5bxa/eva-tiamat-medusa-dragon-lady-transgender

    I think we’re going to see humanity split into two camps, we will have augmented and natural people who at most seek corrections and qualitative improvements like laser eye surgery, embryo selection for IQ etc and then we will have an increasing camp of freaks who seek to become unique with fur, scales, horns, extra limbs/breasts/penises, hermaphroditism or whatever they can dream.

    The freak camp will have surprisingly many people given the popularity of tattoos, nose rings, obesity and the like. The distance to the augment camp of beautiful, intelligent superhumans will look incredible and a new form of SJWism of “all augments are equal and my child’s horns are just as good as the bourgeois intelligence augments” will be born.

  95. Jaakko Raipala: “I think we’re going to see humanity split into two camps, we will have augmented and natural people … and then we will have an increasing camp of freaks who seek to become unique with fur, scales, horns, extra limbs/breasts/penises, hermaphroditism or whatever they can dream.”

    Yes, that’s a plausible scenario, in the short term. But the thrust of transhumanism — the purpose, if you will — is to reduce “normal” humanity into resource from which something else entirely can be built. The result is to make even the concept of “normal” obsolete. Something very similar is playing out before us right now in the culture at large. Just a few decades ago, white people thought that their form of living, and their value system, was something everyone aspired to and wanted to emulate, but technology has enabled their replacement with other races, and other ways (multiculturalism). In the clown world that has resulted, it’s the “freaks” who are, increasingly, the new normal; or perhaps, even more precisely, the whole concept of “normal” is being abolished. Who did this? Conspiracy theorists are looking under their beds for the culprit when they should be looking into a mirror.

    The technophilic right, mired in old ways of thinking about this, doesn’t want to understand that their love affair with technology is helping write humanity as it exists today out of the script. Many of them would like to imagine they are both defending the white race and helping it “evolve”, via technology, into something even better, without understanding they’re really following a path that leads to their own extinction. With such defenders, the white race needs no other enemies.

  96. @anonymous coward

    (All the names for traditional Gnostic religions – Cathars, Albigensians, Bohomils, etc – are all pejoratives from their enemies.)

    The external pejorative for Bogomils was “buggers” (Bulgarians).

    Anyway the link between gnostic-related mystic traditions and today’s satanic globohomo elite really are something that merits more exploration.

  97. @advancedatheist

    I personally know most of the people in this video. I’ve not met Liz Parrish or the SF writer guy. Everyone else I know. Linda Chamberlain (the lady you are referring to) was married to Fred, who is now in cryopreservation.

    The capital cost of developing anti-aging is sufficiently low enough that we will finance it ourselve. Indeed, it looks likely we can do it on a DIY basis. This means that, if you alt-right guys aren’t into it, that’s cool with us. But we don’t give a s**t if that is the case. Because we can do this on our own without your input at all. What this means is that we don’t give a s**t if you don’t like it. Because we’re just going to do it and that is that.

    If I’m able to do something on my own without your help, then your attitude towards it is irrelevant to me.

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  98. @Abelard Lindsey

    The white nationalist Bob Whitaker went into cryo at Alcor a couple years back, and a white social-justice transhumanist has a problem with that.

    https://medium.com/@BJ_Murphy/should-nazis-white-supremacists-be-resurrected-in-the-future-7755c72a901b

    Any day now I expect to see someone on the internet argue against cryopreserving white people in general because the campaign for white extinction shows signs of accelerating and dominating the culture. White cryonicists might not care for white nationalists, but white nationalists do offer implicitly to look out for their interests while they wait in cryopreservation.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  99. Speaking of intersectional trans-gender/humanist misfits, defectives and losers, the man-shouldered Vivienne Ming writes about conducting technological experiments on his autistic son:

    https://qz.com/1650393/transhumanist-parents-are-turning-their-children-into-cyborgs/

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian
  100. @advancedatheist

    My comments are directed at those of the alt-right who are hostile to the idea of radical life extension, not towards you. I would be very pleased if the dissident right as a whole were to be supportive of the pursuit of cryonics and life extension. For some reason, generally they are not.

    I’m actually mystified by opposition to life extension on the part of any faction on the right. You guys are dissidents by nature. You have a problem with the existing system, calling it “globomoho” and the like. This suggests to me that the system as currently structured is somehow keeping you down, actively working to prevent you from pursuing whatever life dreams you want to accomplish. This means you should be motivated to make your own lives and future as parallel society that exists as independently as possible from the existing system.

    The first requirement for this proposition is self-enablement, to have the personal and financial resources to accomplish whatever it is you want from life. A fundamental form of self-enablement is freedom from disease and other biomedical conditions. The second requirement is the ability to create your own wealth and opportunities. The very definition of any kind of dissident is someone who seeks to make their way outside or independent of any existing system. Reading a lot of the rhetoric on alt-right blogs makes me think many of you have forgotten this crucial fact.

    As such, any dissident movement, regardless of politics, should seek both radical life extension as well as an “open” economic system (free markets, limited government regulation and taxation) that increases the chances of individuals working on their own to make their own money outside the system. For a political dissident of ANY political persuasion, to be opposed to either of these two things is to be stupidly counterproductive.

    It is precisely this reason why I am contemptuous of most alt-right types and the alt-right movement in general.

    Entrepreneurship is, be definition, an “outside the system” activity. Entrepreneurship, and by extension, individual empowerment in general, is inherently revolutionary by the standards of global history. The act of dissidence, in and of itself, is a revolutionary act, not a “conservative” one (whatever the hell “conservative” means).

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  101. anonymous[350] • Disclaimer says:
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Entrepreneurship is, be definition, an “outside the system” activity. Entrepreneurship, and by extension, individual empowerment in general, is inherently revolutionary by the standards of global history. The act of dissidence, in and of itself, is a revolutionary act, not a “conservative” one (whatever the hell “conservative” means).

    Would you also advise the 19th century Marxists to forget about working class, became capitalists and get rich?

    The alt-right does not want to selfishly free themselves from “the system”.
    They are in the movement not to help themselves, not to get rich, but to save white race, western civilization, morality, traditional values, etc…
    They want to be in charge, destroy the system and build their own.
    The “vanguard party”, not the “sovereign man”.

  102. anonymous[877] • Disclaimer says:

    BTW, what you think about the ICE detention center attack?

    https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/antifa-martyr-wrote-this-manifesto-before-attacking-an-ice-detention-center/

    It is unclear whether he wanted to kill someone or just burn the ICE buses, but as resistance action it is rather underwhelming.

    As symbolic action, it is powerful. Anarchist and alt-left web is now worshipping this guy as new John Brown.

    Just lone nut, or are the new sixties coming?

    https://itsgoingdown.org/on-williem-van-spronsen/

  103. @Abelard Lindsey

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
  104. @Abelard Lindsey

    There is also the pure demographic factor: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/alt-left-stark-truth/

    If US mortality was to fall to zero today, the day of the non-white majority will be postponed to the 22nd century – if not indefinitely.

  105. @anonymous

    The alt-right does not want to selfishly free themselves from “the system”.
    They are in the movement not to help themselves, not to get rich, but to save white race, western civilization, morality, traditional values, etc…

    I like to troll Ayn Rand cultists, and to a lesser extent Pinker-style humanists, by pointing out that white nationalists selfishly want white people to flourish in their own countries. Both Rand cultists and Steven Pinker frame their related forms of humanism these days as the promotion of human flourishing, so by that definition white nationalism would qualify as a form of humanism – just oriented towards white people’s interests.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  106. @advancedatheist

    The cyborg headline is an attention grabber, the kid literally just wears glasses (some virtual reality glasses that give him tips on recognizing other people’s emotions.) I wish I had glasses like that, but for names! It seems awkward forgetting of the names of people you’ve just been introduced to is a common problem, and solving it will be a great transhumanist victory.

    So the parent is transgender and technically a father? A great number of normal fathers abandon their disabled kids. Someone who stayed and is doing actual work of helping the son is an exceptionally good dad whatever their pronoun preferences.

  107. @advancedatheist

    Taking care of your interests one hundred years beyond your death might be hard for anyone.

    Suppose cryopreservation was available in 1937 and restoration is available now. Would Rockefeller Foundation restore John D. Rockefeller?

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  108. @advancedatheist

    When Ayn Rand wrote the “great replacement” was way way below the radar screen.

    Her followers are just stuck in the past–I am confident a modern “Ayn Rand” would figure it out..

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  109. @Haruto Rat

    That Rockefeller would probably use his wealth to treat our country better than the current gang of atomized, deracinated, globalist, anti-white billionaires who run things now.

  110. @Justvisiting

    Objectivists apparently either don’t believe, or don’t understand, their own propaganda. If the free market produces ever better products, why hasn’t the free market for novels produced works which present Rand’s ideas better than she did? I don’t think Terry Goodkind’s “Sword of Truth” fantasy novels get the job done. Instead Rand cultists remain stuck with the literary equivalent of the Ford Edsel automobile from the 1950’s.

    It also says a lot about Rand’s deficiencies that her organized cultists keep trying to push Rand’s novels into the hands of teenagers and college students, who by definition lack life experience. It should work the other way around, where mature people who read Rand recognize that she showed insight into the human condition that they have also experienced. Great literature works this way for adults, but Rand’s novels don’t.

    I mean, an intelligent native English speaker with literary ability, who bothered to become well read in literature, history, economics, psychology, philosophy and modern science, could write a replacement for Atlas Shrugged which presents Rand’s ideas in a better thought out, more credible way, that modern people past their teen years could relate to.

  111. Cryonics organizations don’t seem to have given much thought to maintaining institutional continuity as the generations of cryonicists turn over. Three septuagenarians work for Alcor in key positions; while a fourth one, a regular volunteer in his 70’s named Jerry Searcy, died in his sleep back in March and went into cryo as a neuro. None of these individuals will work there by the year 2030, and probably not even by the year 2025. So does Alcor’s board of directors have a plan that makes sense to find, vet and train competent and reliable cryonicists to replace them and keep the organization in good condition?

    Despite cryonicists’ own propaganda about their forward, visionary thinking, I see less evidence of that in practice than I would like.

    But then I see a high time preference among today’s transhumanist goofs as well, hence their nonsensical pronouncements that we’ll start to “live forever” by arbitrary dates in this century which fall within current life expectancies, like 2030 or 2045. Do the math, people: Barring a catastrophe, plenty of people alive now, in 2019, will live another 11 or another 26 years any way through natural maturation and aging; they won’t mysteriously become capable of “living forever” on January 1 in either year.

    If transhumanists want to set a date which makes sense and shows ambition, how about aspiring to live to the easy-t0-remember year 2345? If you can make it to the 24th Century in good shape, you have probably solved the really hard problems in overcoming the current life expectancy.

  112. @anonymous

    How does radical life extension and related capabilities constitute any kind of threat to the alt-right?

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  113. The alt-right does not want to free themselves from “the system”.

    This is the functional definition of a dissident.

  114. @advancedatheist

    Bill Faloon, who is the major financial backer of cryonics, has been hosting a young cryonics conference over the past few years. We are well aware of the continuity issues at Alcor and CI. The three individuals you see in the video (all of whom I know personally) are not the only people working at Alcor. That video, for example, does not show Max More, nor does it even mention 21st Century Medicine, which is doing all of the significant technical work underpinning cryonics. The staff at 21CM are significantly younger than those in the video. There are younger people involved with CI as well.

    I agree that setting an arbitrary date for when we will all be “immortal” is just plain silly. You will find that all of the people who do real work in bio-engineering and cryonics would agree with you and I as well.

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  115. @Anatoly Karlin

    I also met the executive director of KrioRus here. So if things work out, I might be able to report on Russia’s Alcor sometime next week.

    I look forward to reading about KrioRus.

    I’ve never met any of them personally. But I know people who have worked with them from time to time over the years.

    There was talk of a potentially major cryonics initiative in China a few years ago. I don’t anything has come of it. I do know that 21CM developed an automated vitrification system and that China is their biggest market for it.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  116. The alt-right does not want to selfishly free themselves from “the system”.
    They are in the movement not to help themselves, not to get rich, but to save white race, western civilization, morality, traditional values, etc…
    They want to be in charge, destroy the system and build their own.
    The “vanguard party”, not the “sovereign man”.

    In other words, you are not about merely seeking the autonomy and freedom to do your own thing. You seek to impose your beliefs and ideas onto others who may not want anything to do with them.

    Congratulations!

    You are really no different than the liberal/left that you complain and whine about so much.

  117. @Abelard Lindsey

    Bill Faloon, who is the major financial backer of cryonics, has been hosting a young cryonics conference over the past few years.

    I don’t see what that project has accomplished. For example, Danielle Baker attended at least one of those conferences a few years ago; but then she dropped her cryonics arrangements and died from a drug overdose back in December. And what happens to that financial support when Faloon goes into cryo himself, assuming that he does?

    That video, for example, does not show Max More

    Probably because Max doesn’t spend that much time at Alcor, from what I’ve heard, so the camera crew had to film the people actually present. Also Alcor’s board apparently has a plan to ease him out. It has reportedly hired a “chief operations officer” (COO), or something to that effect, to handle the parts of Max’s job that he either doesn’t want to do, he neglects doing or he does incompetently, so that Max can concentrate on the Hollywood stuff of appearing in interviews and the like.

  118. @advancedatheist

    If transhumanists want to set a date which makes sense and shows ambition, how about aspiring to live to the easy-t0-remember year 2345?

    If we reach 2345 without radical life extension, I believe that most likely that would mean:

    (1) Some existential risk did humanity (or at least technological civilization) in;

    (2) We are in the Age of Malthusian Industrialism, overcome by idiocracy on all fronts.

    I expect the AoMI to end as eugenic fertility reasserts itself, and global IQ starts going back up, so if I had to predict a “far future” date for RLE, I’d opt for something more like 2845.

  119. @Abelard Lindsey

    There was talk of a potentially major cryonics initiative in China a few years ago. I don’t anything has come of it.

  120. @Abelard Lindsey

    Especially because Alt-Right propaganda celebrates white men’s record of accomplishments, and how we have the potential to achieve even greater things.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
  121. @advancedatheist

    If the alt-right wants to do something useful, it needs to address the problem of cronyism and declining economic dynamism:

    https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2016/07/americas-economy-is-cartelized-corrupt-and-anti-competitive

    This is, BY FAR, the single worse problem the U.S. faces right now. Everything else is a very minor compared to this. Economic dynamism creates more decentralized opportunity and prosperity, which is the foundation of solving all other problems.

    I would like to see more discussion on the part of alt-right types on how to solve this issue rather than obsess about neo-feudal garbage.

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