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That columnist is sure covering all his bases: “Khark iv Tractor Plant in Russia”, something sure to trigger both Russian nationalists and Ukrainian svidomy and I am sure without even being aware of it. Based.

Anyhow, these are pretty large-scale – one Twitter accounts talks of 250,000 participating in Delhi. I am hardly an expert on the details of land reform in India, but that does seem to be a tad more significant than the 25,000 protesters in Moscow. Not that you would have any idea of that from the Western media.

In fairness, other Indians tell me that that “farmer/Leftist” groups also vastly exaggerate the size of their protests:

Farmer/Leftist groups have been known to vastly exaggerate the number of protesters (as happens in Russia as well as you’ve pointed out). Last time they literally claimed that 250 million workers went on strike in support of the farmers, which was a completely made up number. That being said, yes, this is pretty big. Protesting farmers from a few states and their leftist allies have the central government by the balls. The national capital is basically under indefinite siege by these people, and our leadership just isn’t willing to use force to disperse these clowns.

Trudeau has voiced support for the protests:

India officials have threatened the Canadian PM Justin Trudeau by releasing a statement that India ties and trade deals with Canada are at risk, should Canada continue to support the Panjabi community. Mr. Trudeau, to his credit, responded very strongly and said that “Canada will always be there to defend the right to peaceful protest,” in the context of the protests in India.

Though it might really be more of a religious issue than an economics one, going by this article which ascribes the unrest to Sikh nationalists uneasy with Modi’s Hinduization policies:

The current political stunt aims to acquire lands from the Panjabis (Sikhs in particular), by the RSS-led Hindu government currently governed by PM Modi. The plan seems clear, by destroying the local economy and livelihoods of the farmers in the Panjab rejoin, they aim to buy up the land at a fraction of current prices. This is economic warfare. and plain to see by all.

On November 27, 2020, Panjabi farmers chose to co-ordinate their protests against the radical Farmers Bills in the capital city of Delhi. They had to overcome concrete barricades, national highways were being converted into trenches to stop crossings, and they had to face tear gas, stone missiles, baton charges from the Haryana and Delhi police. Nevertheless, they successfully overcame all of these hurdles, as the need to protest against these bills was paramount.

Many Singhs involved. And Sikhs are a large and influential minority in Canada.

This might explain why our resident powerful Sikh commenter is stridently for these protests.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: India 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

  2. “That columnist is sure covering all his bases: “Kharkiv Tractor Plant in Russia”, something sure to trigger both Russian nationalists and Ukrainian svidomy and I am sure without even being aware of it. Based.”

    *Extremely*

    • Agree: mal
  3. In the US small and medium size farms have been ran out of business by big agri.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  4. Japan has a price floor for farmers which gives them a certain guaranteed profit margin which makes it not quite a bad thing, paying farmers to not overproduce, so as to manage supply also works.The US also had this before the 1970s.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Znzn

    Japan isn't food secure and it does make produce weirdly expensive but they aren't suffering from malnutrition issues as India is. I don't think you can extrapolate from Japan to India in this.

    , @Not Only Wrathful
    @Znzn

    Japan has very little arable land. Japan is weird in this respect

  5. The EU also has this in its common agricultural policy, and to my knowledge, France has no problem feeding its people.

  6. Small towns which are 98 percent white in the rural US are withering away because the farms are being consolidated into megafarms with no crop diversity by big agrifirms.

  7. Do Sikh expats give Sikhs in India more clout or less clout? I’d guess less, by lowering their numbers in India.

    Trudeau gets a photo op, where he dons a turbin and wields a kirpan. Then he goes on a junket to India with four Sikh ministers, and Sikhs in Canada buy it hook, line, and sinker and think they’ve influenced global politics by having Trudeau play dress-up.

    Modi does not care. Trudeau is not worth meeting at the airport. Not even worth sending a cabinet minister.

  8. OT, but considering the performance of the IDF vs. Syrians in the air war over Lebanon, how would Soviet Air Forces have performed over Europe in the real thing?

    • Replies: @Carlo
    @128

    First, in the West we only hear Israeli sources, which claim for example that no IDF planes were shot down by Syrian fighters, while these on the other hand claim that they shot down Israeli F-15 and F-16. If you read for example Yefim Gordon's books on Soviet aircraft (which are easily available in English) you can hear "the other side" that we usually don't.
    Second, Syria (and all other Middle Eastern countries allied to the USSR) received only downgraded equipment, as the USSR didn't trust them to operate their most capable weapons.
    Third, Soviet instructors often despaired over the lack of capabilities, and even outright treason of many high officers (many of whom were undercover Israeli agents). For example, when the USSR acceded to operate MiG-25 in Egypt, they demanded that airbase security would be performed by them, and that Egyptians officers would not even know the dates and times the MiG-25 would perform their missions (so there would be no chance Israelis would know it beforehand and prepare their defences).
    So, considering all this, a war in Europe with real Soviet and Warsaw Pact troops would have a very hard outcome for NATO. Not that it would matter much because it would soon escalate to strategic nuclear weapons and all involved countries would be pretty much destroyed.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

  9. This protest is basically organized by entrenched interests. Super rich ‘farmers’ who indirectly own large amounts of land and have captured the state procurement infrastructure and are effectively guaranteed millions of dollars in risk free profits every year under the existing procurement system.

    Delhi is full of such uncouth mega millionaires who pay no taxes on their ‘agricultural income’.

    There are hardly any protests in the rest of the country.

    Good on Modi for not yielding to such entrenched parasites be it on this issue or other reforms like the implementation of a uniform GST to replace more than a dozen central and state taxes.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend, Tor597
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Vishnugupta

    Yep, it's more about money than some faux concern about "Hindutva". The fact that AK would believe that tells you a lot about how ignorant he is about India (as with many other issues).

    Punjab was the richest state in India 10-15 years ago. Today it has fallen to a mere 13th position. The "farm leaders" are mostly from the dominant Jat castes. People aren't aware that dalits form about 25-30% of Punjab's population, but they hold less than 1% of the land.

    Essentially Punjab's wealth was built on agriculture, but it failed to diversify. MSP (minimum support price) is now being revoked in the name of reforms, which these dominant castes rely on. Pull that one out, and they have even less to stand on. This is essentially status anxiety. Nothing about religion.

    We've seen similar protests from other castes such as the Patidars. But outside of immediate explanations such as reform to farming, the real story here is India's apparent lack of success in creating employment for semi-skilled and low-skilled labour. That has forced many familes to live on ever smaller plots of land, which inevitably decreases productivity. In turn, GVA per worker in agriculture is very low, and keeps falling behind industry and services.

    A bigger problem than MSP are the collapsing water tables in Punjab. The system has distorted the incentive strucutre, so that rice cultivation is subsidied in the state despite ongoing desertification. It's a very water-intensive crop.


    Good on Modi for not yielding to such entrenched parasites
     
    Cuckrenda has already proposed a 1.5 year freeze on these laws. It went from no compromise to quasi-compromise. CAA is on hold and UCC is nowhere to be seen. He's also terrified of upsetting his US imperial overlords with a data localisation law. The idea that he's a firebreathing nationalist is a western meme. More optics than actions. Even Ram Temple was mostly thanks to SC.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    , @sher singh
    @Vishnugupta

    LOL.

    https://twitter.com/iJasOberoi/status/1352881370788372480


    As Sep Gurtej Singh reached the place, he was attacked by four Chinese soldiers. However in a rare show of courage and daredevilry he manged to drag all of them and flung them over the cliff. While doing so he too slipped but got saved by a boulder. He then succeeded in pulling himself up using his turban and rejoined the hand to hand combat.
     

    Sep Gurtej Singh was fighting with the Chinese soldiers like a man possessed and managed to kill 11 of them. Eventually he was stabbed form the back but he succeeding in killing him too in his last act of outstanding gallantry.
     
    https://twitter.com/PunYaab/status/1353940401451896832?s=20


    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/777363116454313984/792913708908675112/unknown.png?width=1010&height=664

    https://twitter.com/BainsCode/status/1353939622674505728

    https://amaanbali.wordpress.com/

    Replies: @anonyms

  10. @Vishnugupta
    This protest is basically organized by entrenched interests. Super rich 'farmers' who indirectly own large amounts of land and have captured the state procurement infrastructure and are effectively guaranteed millions of dollars in risk free profits every year under the existing procurement system.

    Delhi is full of such uncouth mega millionaires who pay no taxes on their 'agricultural income'.

    There are hardly any protests in the rest of the country.

    Good on Modi for not yielding to such entrenched parasites be it on this issue or other reforms like the implementation of a uniform GST to replace more than a dozen central and state taxes.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @sher singh

    Yep, it’s more about money than some faux concern about “Hindutva”. The fact that AK would believe that tells you a lot about how ignorant he is about India (as with many other issues).

    Punjab was the richest state in India 10-15 years ago. Today it has fallen to a mere 13th position. The “farm leaders” are mostly from the dominant Jat castes. People aren’t aware that dalits form about 25-30% of Punjab’s population, but they hold less than 1% of the land.

    Essentially Punjab’s wealth was built on agriculture, but it failed to diversify. MSP (minimum support price) is now being revoked in the name of reforms, which these dominant castes rely on. Pull that one out, and they have even less to stand on. This is essentially status anxiety. Nothing about religion.

    We’ve seen similar protests from other castes such as the Patidars. But outside of immediate explanations such as reform to farming, the real story here is India’s apparent lack of success in creating employment for semi-skilled and low-skilled labour. That has forced many familes to live on ever smaller plots of land, which inevitably decreases productivity. In turn, GVA per worker in agriculture is very low, and keeps falling behind industry and services.

    A bigger problem than MSP are the collapsing water tables in Punjab. The system has distorted the incentive strucutre, so that rice cultivation is subsidied in the state despite ongoing desertification. It’s a very water-intensive crop.

    Good on Modi for not yielding to such entrenched parasites

    Cuckrenda has already proposed a 1.5 year freeze on these laws. It went from no compromise to quasi-compromise. CAA is on hold and UCC is nowhere to be seen. He’s also terrified of upsetting his US imperial overlords with a data localisation law. The idea that he’s a firebreathing nationalist is a western meme. More optics than actions. Even Ram Temple was mostly thanks to SC.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Thulean Friend


    People aren’t aware that dalits form about 25-30% of Punjab’s population, but they hold less than 1% of the land.
     
    Why is this supposed to mean anything? A similar excuse has been used for black ownership of land in SA, but its not like people don't have differing abilities and family networks.
  11. Could waste words with long response to everything

    (the 250mil wasn’t false; S Indian unions; don’t underestimate caste mobilization)

    SAT SRI AKAAL

  12. Sajjanan De Sajjan

    Te Veriya De Vairi

    [MORE]

    Friendly to friends

    Vicious to enemies

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

  13. @Vishnugupta
    This protest is basically organized by entrenched interests. Super rich 'farmers' who indirectly own large amounts of land and have captured the state procurement infrastructure and are effectively guaranteed millions of dollars in risk free profits every year under the existing procurement system.

    Delhi is full of such uncouth mega millionaires who pay no taxes on their 'agricultural income'.

    There are hardly any protests in the rest of the country.

    Good on Modi for not yielding to such entrenched parasites be it on this issue or other reforms like the implementation of a uniform GST to replace more than a dozen central and state taxes.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @sher singh

    LOL.

    As Sep Gurtej Singh reached the place, he was attacked by four Chinese soldiers. However in a rare show of courage and daredevilry he manged to drag all of them and flung them over the cliff. While doing so he too slipped but got saved by a boulder. He then succeeded in pulling himself up using his turban and rejoined the hand to hand combat.

    Sep Gurtej Singh was fighting with the Chinese soldiers like a man possessed and managed to kill 11 of them. Eventually he was stabbed form the back but he succeeding in killing him too in his last act of outstanding gallantry.

    [MORE]

    https://amaanbali.wordpress.com/

    • Replies: @anonyms
    @sher singh


    As Sep Gurtej Singh reached the place, he was attacked by four Chinese soldiers. However in a rare show of courage and daredevilry he manged to drag all of them and flung them over the cliff. While doing so he too slipped but got saved by a boulder. He then succeeded in pulling himself up using his turban and rejoined the hand to hand combat.
     

    Sep Gurtej Singh was fighting with the Chinese soldiers like a man possessed and managed to kill 11 of them. Eventually he was stabbed form the back but he succeeding in killing him too in his last act of outstanding gallantry.
     
    Lol! The art of myth making, of the superhuman Sikh man. Just give it a few decades, the "four" or the "11" will morph into "forty" and "111."

    The Sikh existence mostly seems to be about optimal marketing, and virtue signalling. Firstly, there is this whole thing about their legendary "valour" ... then it is about their large hearts, the so-called "langar" system (large scale communal meals, as regularly advertised in Indian online news outlets), and so on.

    They are just a small cult, stuck between Hinduism and Islam, neither here nor there, trying to find meaning for their specific faith system, and their hyper-venerated "gurus." That is okay, of course, but this over-the-top marketing is really overpowering.

    Replies: @sher singh

  14. I’m for one sympathetic to India’s leftists. They have a history of good relations with USSR, while Modi sucked up to US and Israel.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Ludwig
    @Felix Keverich

    Modi’s government is nationalistic and similar in that sense to Trump’s. It aims for a more hard nosed India-first policy which mutes if not abandons some of the traditional idealism based policies - at least in name if not in practice - of aligning with anti-imperial forces and causes worldwide.

    In that way, Modi’s policies are not dissimilar to Putin’s which are more realism than ideological based. While Modi’s government has welcomed closer relations with the US and Israel, it has mostly been careful not to do so at the expense of relations with Russia, rejecting zero-sum geopolitical games that the Western bloc encourages. India too is a strong adherent to the concept of a multi-polar world.

    Indeed Modi has often spoken of Putin as a man whose word one can trust; Lavrov has just last week said this as part of his annual presser: (see https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/4527635)


    The partnership between Russia and India is called slightly differently. You called it a strategic partnership. This was the original title. Some years later, the Indian side proposed to call it a privileged strategic partnership. And a few years ago, when Prime Minister Modi became the head of the Indian government, we changed it to a specially privileged strategic partnership.

    I believe there is room for further improvement, but the current terminology indicates a special kind of relationship. India is our very close, very strategic and very privileged partner. Take the economy, take innovations, high technology or military and technical cooperation, India is one of our closest partners in all these areas. We have close political coordination in the United Nations and within BRICS.
     
    India has either voted with Russia or abstained but not voted against Russian interests at the UN. It continues cooperation on the defense and nuclear industries, and are aligned on various geopolitical issues like Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela. Sputnik V is on track to be approved in weeks as soon as Phase 3 trials are complete in India, with India to produce the vaccines both for internal as well as Russian market.

    The one irritant is not so much India working with the US or Israel (Russia too has an understanding w Israel), but the tensions between India and China which weaken the RIC, BRIC, SCO organizations. The tensions between India and China are not geopolitical in nature - though the US is trying to add this dimension to it - but the kind of border issues common throughout history between neighbors.

    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.

    Here Russia being a trusted party to both can play a strong behind the scenes part (for its own geopolitical interests which are served by more cohesion within RIC/BRICS/SCO) while of course the US in interested in fanning the flames for its own geopolitical interests.

    Replies: @JL, @Kent Nationalist, @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

  15. Sorry, Anatoly, couldn’t resist:

  16. I notice many American farmers spend their ‘golden years’ restoring old tractors. They even have a TV channel where their restored farm machinery is displayed. Would seem like an expensive hobby but there does always seem to be a wide gulf between what farmers claim they earn ( very little ) and the standard of living they actually enjoy.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @unit472

    I don't know which farmers you've been seeing, but in my slice of rural America, such behavior is rare among actual farmers (by which I mean both full-time farmers and people who have to work two or more jobs, both on and off the farm). I'm guessing those guys you've seen were boomer "hobby farmers" who made a bunch of money doing whatever boomers did.

    Replies: @unit472

  17. @unit472
    I notice many American farmers spend their 'golden years' restoring old tractors. They even have a TV channel where their restored farm machinery is displayed. Would seem like an expensive hobby but there does always seem to be a wide gulf between what farmers claim they earn ( very little ) and the standard of living they actually enjoy.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I don’t know which farmers you’ve been seeing, but in my slice of rural America, such behavior is rare among actual farmers (by which I mean both full-time farmers and people who have to work two or more jobs, both on and off the farm). I’m guessing those guys you’ve seen were boomer “hobby farmers” who made a bunch of money doing whatever boomers did.

    • Replies: @unit472
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Not really. I had a cabin the mountains of SW Virginia for a few years. That's Appalachia. Most folks were poor and didn't farm at all. Those that did had land. They also had day jobs but spent all their money on acquiring more land so they could lose more money on their cattle, farming and timber operations.

    I saw the same thing on an even grander scale in California. Friend of mine's father grew raisins in the Central Valley. Met him at his beach house in Santa Cruz where, just back from a European vacation he ranted and raved about low prices, high costs and how little money he made.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

  18. @sher singh
    @Vishnugupta

    LOL.

    https://twitter.com/iJasOberoi/status/1352881370788372480


    As Sep Gurtej Singh reached the place, he was attacked by four Chinese soldiers. However in a rare show of courage and daredevilry he manged to drag all of them and flung them over the cliff. While doing so he too slipped but got saved by a boulder. He then succeeded in pulling himself up using his turban and rejoined the hand to hand combat.
     

    Sep Gurtej Singh was fighting with the Chinese soldiers like a man possessed and managed to kill 11 of them. Eventually he was stabbed form the back but he succeeding in killing him too in his last act of outstanding gallantry.
     
    https://twitter.com/PunYaab/status/1353940401451896832?s=20


    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/777363116454313984/792913708908675112/unknown.png?width=1010&height=664

    https://twitter.com/BainsCode/status/1353939622674505728

    https://amaanbali.wordpress.com/

    Replies: @anonyms

    As Sep Gurtej Singh reached the place, he was attacked by four Chinese soldiers. However in a rare show of courage and daredevilry he manged to drag all of them and flung them over the cliff. While doing so he too slipped but got saved by a boulder. He then succeeded in pulling himself up using his turban and rejoined the hand to hand combat.

    Sep Gurtej Singh was fighting with the Chinese soldiers like a man possessed and managed to kill 11 of them. Eventually he was stabbed form the back but he succeeding in killing him too in his last act of outstanding gallantry.

    Lol! The art of myth making, of the superhuman Sikh man. Just give it a few decades, the “four” or the “11” will morph into “forty” and “111.”

    The Sikh existence mostly seems to be about optimal marketing, and virtue signalling. Firstly, there is this whole thing about their legendary “valour” … then it is about their large hearts, the so-called “langar” system (large scale communal meals, as regularly advertised in Indian online news outlets), and so on.

    They are just a small cult, stuck between Hinduism and Islam, neither here nor there, trying to find meaning for their specific faith system, and their hyper-venerated “gurus.” That is okay, of course, but this over-the-top marketing is really overpowering.

    • Disagree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @sher singh
    @anonyms

    https://www.honourpoint.in/profile/sepoy-gurtej-singh-2/

    It's the writeup for his medal though, a Sikh didn't write it.

    https://www.sikh24.com/2017/08/10/5-battles-in-which-sikhs-were-greatly-outnumbered/

    LEL.

  19. @128
    OT, but considering the performance of the IDF vs. Syrians in the air war over Lebanon, how would Soviet Air Forces have performed over Europe in the real thing?

    Replies: @Carlo

    First, in the West we only hear Israeli sources, which claim for example that no IDF planes were shot down by Syrian fighters, while these on the other hand claim that they shot down Israeli F-15 and F-16. If you read for example Yefim Gordon’s books on Soviet aircraft (which are easily available in English) you can hear “the other side” that we usually don’t.
    Second, Syria (and all other Middle Eastern countries allied to the USSR) received only downgraded equipment, as the USSR didn’t trust them to operate their most capable weapons.
    Third, Soviet instructors often despaired over the lack of capabilities, and even outright treason of many high officers (many of whom were undercover Israeli agents). For example, when the USSR acceded to operate MiG-25 in Egypt, they demanded that airbase security would be performed by them, and that Egyptians officers would not even know the dates and times the MiG-25 would perform their missions (so there would be no chance Israelis would know it beforehand and prepare their defences).
    So, considering all this, a war in Europe with real Soviet and Warsaw Pact troops would have a very hard outcome for NATO. Not that it would matter much because it would soon escalate to strategic nuclear weapons and all involved countries would be pretty much destroyed.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Carlo

    "Syria (and all other Middle Eastern countries allied to the USSR) received only downgraded equipment, as the USSR didn’t trust them to operate their most capable weapons."

    Not to mention the fact that the USSR wouldn't trust them not to take the planes straight to a US base for cash and prizes.


    Soviet instructors often despaired over the lack of capabilities, and even outright treason of many high officers (many of whom were undercover Israeli agents). For example, when the USSR acceded to operate MiG-25 in Egypt, they demanded that airbase security would be performed by them, and that Egyptians officers would not even know the dates and times the MiG-25 would perform their missions (so there would be no chance Israelis would know it beforehand and prepare their defences)
     
    The corruption of most/all ME countries has been a boon to Israel.

    I've worked with a fair few Sikhs, and I like them. But when roused they can be pretty unpleasant. The very first surrender of the UK government to multiculturalism was when Sikhs were allowed to wear their turbans on motorcycles, when Native Brits had to wear helmets - this was in the late 1960s. The government, even then, were afraid of them.

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

  20. Absolute STATE of jattoid sikhs

    Notice that they are supplanting the Indian flag with their own sectarian one: Nishan Sahib.

    Remember these things when our resident budcel crawl all up the asses of the sikhs. They aren’t heroes and most of them are thugs.

    • Disagree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
    @Thulean Friend


    Notice that they are supplanting the Indian flag with their own sectarian one: Nishan Sahib.

     

    This seems like a potentially worrying sign for the future of India's continued existence and viability as a large country composing lots of different castes, ethnicities, nations and etc. It's clear that the whole multi-ethnicity thing didn't work with Muslims, although perhaps issues with Sikhs and other castes/ethnicities aren't so severe and are repairable.

    Anyway, you're keen interest in this perhaps does betray that you are some sort of Indian or crypto-Indian after all. I thought this ridiculous at first, although perhaps maybe you're just a Swedecuck legit obsessed with India after all ...

    Replies: @Yevardian

    , @sher singh
    @Thulean Friend

    You Dindus have no prob when Sikh Regiment flies it defending your borders.

    This was the 20th time Nishan Sahib has flown across Red Fort

    more than Afghans or Marathas||

    Won't be last.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Thulean Friend

    Let the Punjabis have their own country already.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Europe Europa

    , @g2k
    @Thulean Friend

    What's with the anti Sikh sentiment? As a group they're perhaps more compatible with european culture than any other from the Indian subcontinent. Before the Corona cult lobotomised them, the French used to do this kind of thing every few months.

    https://youtu.be/EgDimvKtB90

    Replies: @Shortsword

    , @ivan
    @Thulean Friend

    Why don't you call yourself something more appropriate : Trishul Sangh, Vahini Rider or something more appropriate.

  21. @Thulean Friend
    @Vishnugupta

    Yep, it's more about money than some faux concern about "Hindutva". The fact that AK would believe that tells you a lot about how ignorant he is about India (as with many other issues).

    Punjab was the richest state in India 10-15 years ago. Today it has fallen to a mere 13th position. The "farm leaders" are mostly from the dominant Jat castes. People aren't aware that dalits form about 25-30% of Punjab's population, but they hold less than 1% of the land.

    Essentially Punjab's wealth was built on agriculture, but it failed to diversify. MSP (minimum support price) is now being revoked in the name of reforms, which these dominant castes rely on. Pull that one out, and they have even less to stand on. This is essentially status anxiety. Nothing about religion.

    We've seen similar protests from other castes such as the Patidars. But outside of immediate explanations such as reform to farming, the real story here is India's apparent lack of success in creating employment for semi-skilled and low-skilled labour. That has forced many familes to live on ever smaller plots of land, which inevitably decreases productivity. In turn, GVA per worker in agriculture is very low, and keeps falling behind industry and services.

    A bigger problem than MSP are the collapsing water tables in Punjab. The system has distorted the incentive strucutre, so that rice cultivation is subsidied in the state despite ongoing desertification. It's a very water-intensive crop.


    Good on Modi for not yielding to such entrenched parasites
     
    Cuckrenda has already proposed a 1.5 year freeze on these laws. It went from no compromise to quasi-compromise. CAA is on hold and UCC is nowhere to be seen. He's also terrified of upsetting his US imperial overlords with a data localisation law. The idea that he's a firebreathing nationalist is a western meme. More optics than actions. Even Ram Temple was mostly thanks to SC.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    People aren’t aware that dalits form about 25-30% of Punjab’s population, but they hold less than 1% of the land.

    Why is this supposed to mean anything? A similar excuse has been used for black ownership of land in SA, but its not like people don’t have differing abilities and family networks.

  22. Canada will always be there to defend the right to peaceful protest,” in the context of the protests in India.

    Cheap grace for a Canadian to be for peaceful protest in India; it is vexxing the power elite of Canada that some of their top-cops are telling their forces to mostly watch COVID protests; though a few forces are arresting and fining protestors, nowhere near the scale of their batshit crazy cousins in Oz and Blighty.

  23. @Felix Keverich
    I'm for one sympathetic to India's leftists. They have a history of good relations with USSR, while Modi sucked up to US and Israel.

    Replies: @Ludwig

    Modi’s government is nationalistic and similar in that sense to Trump’s. It aims for a more hard nosed India-first policy which mutes if not abandons some of the traditional idealism based policies – at least in name if not in practice – of aligning with anti-imperial forces and causes worldwide.

    In that way, Modi’s policies are not dissimilar to Putin’s which are more realism than ideological based. While Modi’s government has welcomed closer relations with the US and Israel, it has mostly been careful not to do so at the expense of relations with Russia, rejecting zero-sum geopolitical games that the Western bloc encourages. India too is a strong adherent to the concept of a multi-polar world.

    Indeed Modi has often spoken of Putin as a man whose word one can trust; Lavrov has just last week said this as part of his annual presser: (see https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/4527635)

    The partnership between Russia and India is called slightly differently. You called it a strategic partnership. This was the original title. Some years later, the Indian side proposed to call it a privileged strategic partnership. And a few years ago, when Prime Minister Modi became the head of the Indian government, we changed it to a specially privileged strategic partnership.

    I believe there is room for further improvement, but the current terminology indicates a special kind of relationship. India is our very close, very strategic and very privileged partner. Take the economy, take innovations, high technology or military and technical cooperation, India is one of our closest partners in all these areas. We have close political coordination in the United Nations and within BRICS.

    India has either voted with Russia or abstained but not voted against Russian interests at the UN. It continues cooperation on the defense and nuclear industries, and are aligned on various geopolitical issues like Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela. Sputnik V is on track to be approved in weeks as soon as Phase 3 trials are complete in India, with India to produce the vaccines both for internal as well as Russian market.

    The one irritant is not so much India working with the US or Israel (Russia too has an understanding w Israel), but the tensions between India and China which weaken the RIC, BRIC, SCO organizations. The tensions between India and China are not geopolitical in nature – though the US is trying to add this dimension to it – but the kind of border issues common throughout history between neighbors.

    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.

    Here Russia being a trusted party to both can play a strong behind the scenes part (for its own geopolitical interests which are served by more cohesion within RIC/BRICS/SCO) while of course the US in interested in fanning the flames for its own geopolitical interests.

    • Agree: Mitleser
    • Replies: @JL
    @Ludwig

    I guess this is a good explanation as to why they've decided to settle this dispute (or, probably, not settle it) via melee. I think it's a great model, perhaps it could be replicated on the geopolitical level as well.

    Replies: @Ludwig

    , @Kent Nationalist
    @Ludwig


    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.
     
    The Chinese had no problem suppressing hostility or border conflicts with Japan (with much more historical enmity) for decades.
    , @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Ludwig

    What is preventing both sides from demarcating the borders in an appropriate manner? Those regions are mostly useless as far as the scope of land development is concerned anyway, the British cartographers who drew up the boundaries did it using quite a thick pencil on a not so detailed map, assuming that those areas do not need to be detailed too much.

    Replies: @songbird, @Ludwig

    , @Yevardian
    @Ludwig


    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.
     
    It really does feel if any region could benefit from a buffer-state, this is the place. In terms of resources and population that whole border area is practically worthless, periodic chimpouts between two hyper-nationalist, billion-strong, nuclear-armed states over some barren rocks, where neither core-population even lives, is exactly what the world needs.

    Replies: @AltanB

    , @showmethereal
    @Ludwig

    I agree with most of your comment but I disagree regarding India's stance v Russia and the west. For instance yousay that India stands with Russia on Iran but that's not true. When the US threatened any nation that buys oil from Iran or trades with Iran - India wilted. Same with Venezuela... What support has India shown to Venezuela?
    And when a Russian minister publicly accused the US of being the one stoking tension on the border between India and China and both sides should be wise enough not to fall for it - the Indian foreign minister publicly said his Russian counterpart wasn't living in reality. That doesn't sound like India is neutral.
    I would like to believe what you are saying - but I honestly don't see it.

  24. @Thulean Friend
    Absolute STATE of jattoid sikhs

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353975938812317698?s=20

    Notice that they are supplanting the Indian flag with their own sectarian one: Nishan Sahib.

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353984535084470272?s=20

    Remember these things when our resident budcel crawl all up the asses of the sikhs. They aren't heroes and most of them are thugs.

    Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous, @sher singh, @RadicalCenter, @g2k, @ivan

    Notice that they are supplanting the Indian flag with their own sectarian one: Nishan Sahib.

    This seems like a potentially worrying sign for the future of India’s continued existence and viability as a large country composing lots of different castes, ethnicities, nations and etc. It’s clear that the whole multi-ethnicity thing didn’t work with Muslims, although perhaps issues with Sikhs and other castes/ethnicities aren’t so severe and are repairable.

    Anyway, you’re keen interest in this perhaps does betray that you are some sort of Indian or crypto-Indian after all. I thought this ridiculous at first, although perhaps maybe you’re just a Swedecuck legit obsessed with India after all …

    • Agree: ivan
    • LOL: sher singh
    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Good, why would you want to force such different people to live with each other anyway? Most Pakistanis and north Indians have more in common with each other than the Dravidian south, or especially the totally alien North-East, what a stupid artificial country.
    I mean, you can't even stand Croats and vice-versa, and you're practically identical.


    Anyway, you’re keen interest in this perhaps does betray that you are some sort of Indian or crypto-Indian after all. I thought this ridiculous at first, although perhaps maybe you’re just a Swedecuck legit obsessed with India after all …
     
    He's just got to be Indian, of all the countries to be obsessed with, why would anyone pick fucking India?

    Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous

  25. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @unit472

    I don't know which farmers you've been seeing, but in my slice of rural America, such behavior is rare among actual farmers (by which I mean both full-time farmers and people who have to work two or more jobs, both on and off the farm). I'm guessing those guys you've seen were boomer "hobby farmers" who made a bunch of money doing whatever boomers did.

    Replies: @unit472

    Not really. I had a cabin the mountains of SW Virginia for a few years. That’s Appalachia. Most folks were poor and didn’t farm at all. Those that did had land. They also had day jobs but spent all their money on acquiring more land so they could lose more money on their cattle, farming and timber operations.

    I saw the same thing on an even grander scale in California. Friend of mine’s father grew raisins in the Central Valley. Met him at his beach house in Santa Cruz where, just back from a European vacation he ranted and raved about low prices, high costs and how little money he made.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @unit472

    My sister and her husband made such a shameless profit on their farm in Illinois that they were forced to sell it in the 80s and take up new careers. So a full picture would include both people like them and people like the guy you’re discussing.

  26. @Ludwig
    @Felix Keverich

    Modi’s government is nationalistic and similar in that sense to Trump’s. It aims for a more hard nosed India-first policy which mutes if not abandons some of the traditional idealism based policies - at least in name if not in practice - of aligning with anti-imperial forces and causes worldwide.

    In that way, Modi’s policies are not dissimilar to Putin’s which are more realism than ideological based. While Modi’s government has welcomed closer relations with the US and Israel, it has mostly been careful not to do so at the expense of relations with Russia, rejecting zero-sum geopolitical games that the Western bloc encourages. India too is a strong adherent to the concept of a multi-polar world.

    Indeed Modi has often spoken of Putin as a man whose word one can trust; Lavrov has just last week said this as part of his annual presser: (see https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/4527635)


    The partnership between Russia and India is called slightly differently. You called it a strategic partnership. This was the original title. Some years later, the Indian side proposed to call it a privileged strategic partnership. And a few years ago, when Prime Minister Modi became the head of the Indian government, we changed it to a specially privileged strategic partnership.

    I believe there is room for further improvement, but the current terminology indicates a special kind of relationship. India is our very close, very strategic and very privileged partner. Take the economy, take innovations, high technology or military and technical cooperation, India is one of our closest partners in all these areas. We have close political coordination in the United Nations and within BRICS.
     
    India has either voted with Russia or abstained but not voted against Russian interests at the UN. It continues cooperation on the defense and nuclear industries, and are aligned on various geopolitical issues like Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela. Sputnik V is on track to be approved in weeks as soon as Phase 3 trials are complete in India, with India to produce the vaccines both for internal as well as Russian market.

    The one irritant is not so much India working with the US or Israel (Russia too has an understanding w Israel), but the tensions between India and China which weaken the RIC, BRIC, SCO organizations. The tensions between India and China are not geopolitical in nature - though the US is trying to add this dimension to it - but the kind of border issues common throughout history between neighbors.

    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.

    Here Russia being a trusted party to both can play a strong behind the scenes part (for its own geopolitical interests which are served by more cohesion within RIC/BRICS/SCO) while of course the US in interested in fanning the flames for its own geopolitical interests.

    Replies: @JL, @Kent Nationalist, @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

    I guess this is a good explanation as to why they’ve decided to settle this dispute (or, probably, not settle it) via melee. I think it’s a great model, perhaps it could be replicated on the geopolitical level as well.

    • Replies: @Ludwig
    @JL


    I guess this is a good explanation as to why they’ve decided to settle this dispute (or, probably, not settle it) via melee. I think it’s a great model, perhaps it could be replicated on the geopolitical level as well.
     
    There is a real effort to tamp down tensions at the border and have disputes relegated back to the border commander level vs higher up the chain of command, but the real test will come as the snow melts in a few months. (Currently the disputed areas have -50C temperatures in high altitudes making death by hypothermia or oxygen deprivation more likely than an enemy soldier). The Chinese side has always been ahead in infrastructure and modern military equipment on the border including camps, helipads, rapid deployment and supply routes, satellite and surveillance capability and so on, and India has been rushing to catch up (part of what sparked Chinese concerns, which is trying to make sure they remain well ahead by accelerating their border strengthening sparking a mini-arms race).

    The bigger issue is trust: while Modi and Xi held two widely publicized multi-day “informal summits”, one in Wuhan (irony alert) and the other next year in a South Indian town with ancient Hindu significance, that bonhomie did not prevent the border clash or the events leading to it (which was the result of an escalating series of miscalculations in reading the actions of the other not just by commanders at the border but at a more political level).

    A fundamental problem seems to be that India believes trust and closer economic ties will follow resolution - or at least calming - of the border issue, while China believes that closer economic ties will result in the trust needed to settle the border issues. India meanwhile is apprehensive that China’s stronger economy will be a detriment to India’s if they fully opened up (the same concerns India has of the US which is why a trade agreement with the Trump admin was repeatedly postponed)

    It is not clear how to resolve this convoluted problem with the border issue seen as a test of National Resolve by each. It seems that both sides are seeking a face-saving exit without compromising their military potentials. So the best hope for now appears to be kicking the can down the road for a proper settlement and focus on ensuring a war doesn’t break out.
  27. @Ludwig
    @Felix Keverich

    Modi’s government is nationalistic and similar in that sense to Trump’s. It aims for a more hard nosed India-first policy which mutes if not abandons some of the traditional idealism based policies - at least in name if not in practice - of aligning with anti-imperial forces and causes worldwide.

    In that way, Modi’s policies are not dissimilar to Putin’s which are more realism than ideological based. While Modi’s government has welcomed closer relations with the US and Israel, it has mostly been careful not to do so at the expense of relations with Russia, rejecting zero-sum geopolitical games that the Western bloc encourages. India too is a strong adherent to the concept of a multi-polar world.

    Indeed Modi has often spoken of Putin as a man whose word one can trust; Lavrov has just last week said this as part of his annual presser: (see https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/4527635)


    The partnership between Russia and India is called slightly differently. You called it a strategic partnership. This was the original title. Some years later, the Indian side proposed to call it a privileged strategic partnership. And a few years ago, when Prime Minister Modi became the head of the Indian government, we changed it to a specially privileged strategic partnership.

    I believe there is room for further improvement, but the current terminology indicates a special kind of relationship. India is our very close, very strategic and very privileged partner. Take the economy, take innovations, high technology or military and technical cooperation, India is one of our closest partners in all these areas. We have close political coordination in the United Nations and within BRICS.
     
    India has either voted with Russia or abstained but not voted against Russian interests at the UN. It continues cooperation on the defense and nuclear industries, and are aligned on various geopolitical issues like Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela. Sputnik V is on track to be approved in weeks as soon as Phase 3 trials are complete in India, with India to produce the vaccines both for internal as well as Russian market.

    The one irritant is not so much India working with the US or Israel (Russia too has an understanding w Israel), but the tensions between India and China which weaken the RIC, BRIC, SCO organizations. The tensions between India and China are not geopolitical in nature - though the US is trying to add this dimension to it - but the kind of border issues common throughout history between neighbors.

    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.

    Here Russia being a trusted party to both can play a strong behind the scenes part (for its own geopolitical interests which are served by more cohesion within RIC/BRICS/SCO) while of course the US in interested in fanning the flames for its own geopolitical interests.

    Replies: @JL, @Kent Nationalist, @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.

    The Chinese had no problem suppressing hostility or border conflicts with Japan (with much more historical enmity) for decades.

  28. @Ludwig
    @Felix Keverich

    Modi’s government is nationalistic and similar in that sense to Trump’s. It aims for a more hard nosed India-first policy which mutes if not abandons some of the traditional idealism based policies - at least in name if not in practice - of aligning with anti-imperial forces and causes worldwide.

    In that way, Modi’s policies are not dissimilar to Putin’s which are more realism than ideological based. While Modi’s government has welcomed closer relations with the US and Israel, it has mostly been careful not to do so at the expense of relations with Russia, rejecting zero-sum geopolitical games that the Western bloc encourages. India too is a strong adherent to the concept of a multi-polar world.

    Indeed Modi has often spoken of Putin as a man whose word one can trust; Lavrov has just last week said this as part of his annual presser: (see https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/4527635)


    The partnership between Russia and India is called slightly differently. You called it a strategic partnership. This was the original title. Some years later, the Indian side proposed to call it a privileged strategic partnership. And a few years ago, when Prime Minister Modi became the head of the Indian government, we changed it to a specially privileged strategic partnership.

    I believe there is room for further improvement, but the current terminology indicates a special kind of relationship. India is our very close, very strategic and very privileged partner. Take the economy, take innovations, high technology or military and technical cooperation, India is one of our closest partners in all these areas. We have close political coordination in the United Nations and within BRICS.
     
    India has either voted with Russia or abstained but not voted against Russian interests at the UN. It continues cooperation on the defense and nuclear industries, and are aligned on various geopolitical issues like Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela. Sputnik V is on track to be approved in weeks as soon as Phase 3 trials are complete in India, with India to produce the vaccines both for internal as well as Russian market.

    The one irritant is not so much India working with the US or Israel (Russia too has an understanding w Israel), but the tensions between India and China which weaken the RIC, BRIC, SCO organizations. The tensions between India and China are not geopolitical in nature - though the US is trying to add this dimension to it - but the kind of border issues common throughout history between neighbors.

    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.

    Here Russia being a trusted party to both can play a strong behind the scenes part (for its own geopolitical interests which are served by more cohesion within RIC/BRICS/SCO) while of course the US in interested in fanning the flames for its own geopolitical interests.

    Replies: @JL, @Kent Nationalist, @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

    What is preventing both sides from demarcating the borders in an appropriate manner? Those regions are mostly useless as far as the scope of land development is concerned anyway, the British cartographers who drew up the boundaries did it using quite a thick pencil on a not so detailed map, assuming that those areas do not need to be detailed too much.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    They should settle their dispute by alternating rounds of table tennis and kabaddi, televised to an international audience.

    , @Ludwig
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    There are really two border issues: one is where the legal border is, and the second is where the Line of Actual Control, ie where the de facto border is.

    The legal border is settled in a few places but in key areas it is not. In particular India claims a part of Aksai Chin occupied by China as part of the erstwhile kingdom of Jammu & Kashmir which is of course also claimed in entirety by Pakistan (apart from many in the region who would rather be independent from everyone). This piece of land is quite strategic as a key road runs through it to connect China proper to Pakistan as part of China’s larger Belt & Road Initiative. India will never give up the claim and neither will China ever relinquish it and China in fact has aggressively built up defenses in the area to prevent India from ever overrunning that area and cutting off that road.

    Similarly in the East there is a state that is occupied by India that China claims as part of South Tibet. This is strategic for India as it opens up its eastern Indian states to China if relinquished. Again the chances of resolving this are slim (though China has offered various land swaps).

    These issue were handed down by the British - then colonizing India - drawing their lines with Tibet with China claiming that Tibet at the time did not have the right to agree to the border and only China proper did rendering any such agreements null and void and historical Tibetan kingdom claims taking precedence.

    So to resolve the legal border issue will take a long time - perhaps geological plate dynamics might resolve something over eons (though actually the Indian subcontinent is pushing against the Asian landmass and Tibet, versus tearing away.)

    What’s more hopeful is an agreement on the Line of Actual Control (LAC) ie the de facto line.

    Unfortunately the de facto line itself is disputed and by definition since a de facto line means the line till which you actually occupy the land, as the snows melt, patrols of soldiers go up from forward bases to where they feel their claim points are with an agreement that if they encounter an opposing patrol, they will turn back to where the undisputed claim lines are. (There is a whole procedure worked out where upon meeting the opposing soldiers will unfurl banners in English, Hindi, Mandarin with some standard verbiage claiming the land, before disengaging). To prevent lethal escalations, there is also an agreement that soldiers don’t carry guns on patrols in these disputed areas.

    This game, ridiculous as it sounds, works when each side retreats during the winters to more stable bases in undisputed territory and re-emerges to stomp around their claimed ones.

    China with its superior infrastructure, surveillance and supply chains is seen to have been violating this agreement by making permanent structures and roads that can carry heavy trucks on what India claims are at the least disputed areas of the LAC while the Indian side have little built up roads or structures in these areas.

    So the Chinese have been seen to have pushed right up to their claim line and in some cases have even moved the claim line (like in the area in which 20 Indian soldiers and an unknown number of Chinese ones died in hand-to-hand combat and attacks with barbed-wire clubs thus keeping to the letter if not the spirit of the agreement against guns).

    Many of these areas are strategic either offensively or defensively in the sense that occupying them would give them an geographical advantage, eg commanding heights or water sources to control downstream lands dozens of miles away. There are valleys through which soldiers can potentially invade into the other’s territory proper.

    To disengage from this situation as per the Indian side requires the Chinese to dismantle their infrastructure and return to the status quo of some years prior. China sees their buildings as perfectly legitimate as per their claim lines. As per India, the Chinese will offer to only remove some but then gradually encroach the next year more and more making their de facto area larger and larger, so basically moving back 2 km and advancing 3 km and so on.

    This has happened not just in remote areas but in the de facto Indian state that China claims. Eg see https://www.10bmnews.com/2021/01/india-was-left-staring-china-occupied.html where China is claimed to have built a whole residential area 4.5 km inside India’s claim line.

    All this is part of China’s fairly aggressive “offensive defense” across various disputed areas from the South China Sea to the land borders with India. India sees this as Xi trying to take advantage of India’s relative weakness before a stronger India makes this expansion more difficult.

    This also coincides with China’s rapid rise - especially during the global pandemic which has weakened a lot of its rivals. Thus India, the weaker party, turns to the US to try and gain leverage in the ocean while trying not to become another US puppet even as the US itself is losing clout.

    Russia meanwhile gets all this and is sympathetic to India’s position even as it itself needs China as a bulwark against the West. As to how the India-China border situation will evolve is to be seen, but a quick solution seems unlikely.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  29. A Short History of Tractors in Ukrainian by Marina Lewycka
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Short_History_of_Tractors_in_Ukrainian

    I heard it read on NPR in installments. It was not too bad. Often funny.

  30. True power would be to make the PM of Canada don blackface or dress up as a Jewish caricature.

  31. @anonyms
    @sher singh


    As Sep Gurtej Singh reached the place, he was attacked by four Chinese soldiers. However in a rare show of courage and daredevilry he manged to drag all of them and flung them over the cliff. While doing so he too slipped but got saved by a boulder. He then succeeded in pulling himself up using his turban and rejoined the hand to hand combat.
     

    Sep Gurtej Singh was fighting with the Chinese soldiers like a man possessed and managed to kill 11 of them. Eventually he was stabbed form the back but he succeeding in killing him too in his last act of outstanding gallantry.
     
    Lol! The art of myth making, of the superhuman Sikh man. Just give it a few decades, the "four" or the "11" will morph into "forty" and "111."

    The Sikh existence mostly seems to be about optimal marketing, and virtue signalling. Firstly, there is this whole thing about their legendary "valour" ... then it is about their large hearts, the so-called "langar" system (large scale communal meals, as regularly advertised in Indian online news outlets), and so on.

    They are just a small cult, stuck between Hinduism and Islam, neither here nor there, trying to find meaning for their specific faith system, and their hyper-venerated "gurus." That is okay, of course, but this over-the-top marketing is really overpowering.

    Replies: @sher singh

  32. @Thulean Friend
    Absolute STATE of jattoid sikhs

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353975938812317698?s=20

    Notice that they are supplanting the Indian flag with their own sectarian one: Nishan Sahib.

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353984535084470272?s=20

    Remember these things when our resident budcel crawl all up the asses of the sikhs. They aren't heroes and most of them are thugs.

    Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous, @sher singh, @RadicalCenter, @g2k, @ivan

    You Dindus have no prob when Sikh Regiment flies it defending your borders.

    This was the 20th time Nishan Sahib has flown across Red Fort

    more than Afghans or Marathas||

    Won’t be last.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @sher singh

    Dost Uttarakuru mitr nahi hindu ya bharati. Vah swed pasand bhadkana.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  33. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Ludwig

    What is preventing both sides from demarcating the borders in an appropriate manner? Those regions are mostly useless as far as the scope of land development is concerned anyway, the British cartographers who drew up the boundaries did it using quite a thick pencil on a not so detailed map, assuming that those areas do not need to be detailed too much.

    Replies: @songbird, @Ludwig

    They should settle their dispute by alternating rounds of table tennis and kabaddi, televised to an international audience.

  34. @sher singh
    @Thulean Friend

    You Dindus have no prob when Sikh Regiment flies it defending your borders.

    This was the 20th time Nishan Sahib has flown across Red Fort

    more than Afghans or Marathas||

    Won't be last.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Dost Uttarakuru mitr nahi hindu ya bharati. Vah swed pasand bhadkana.

    • Agree: Jatt Aryaa
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    Not swed but sveedish.

  35. @Znzn
    Japan has a price floor for farmers which gives them a certain guaranteed profit margin which makes it not quite a bad thing, paying farmers to not overproduce, so as to manage supply also works.The US also had this before the 1970s.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Not Only Wrathful

    Japan isn’t food secure and it does make produce weirdly expensive but they aren’t suffering from malnutrition issues as India is. I don’t think you can extrapolate from Japan to India in this.

  36. @JL
    @Ludwig

    I guess this is a good explanation as to why they've decided to settle this dispute (or, probably, not settle it) via melee. I think it's a great model, perhaps it could be replicated on the geopolitical level as well.

    Replies: @Ludwig

    I guess this is a good explanation as to why they’ve decided to settle this dispute (or, probably, not settle it) via melee. I think it’s a great model, perhaps it could be replicated on the geopolitical level as well.

    There is a real effort to tamp down tensions at the border and have disputes relegated back to the border commander level vs higher up the chain of command, but the real test will come as the snow melts in a few months. (Currently the disputed areas have -50C temperatures in high altitudes making death by hypothermia or oxygen deprivation more likely than an enemy soldier). The Chinese side has always been ahead in infrastructure and modern military equipment on the border including camps, helipads, rapid deployment and supply routes, satellite and surveillance capability and so on, and India has been rushing to catch up (part of what sparked Chinese concerns, which is trying to make sure they remain well ahead by accelerating their border strengthening sparking a mini-arms race).

    The bigger issue is trust: while Modi and Xi held two widely publicized multi-day “informal summits”, one in Wuhan (irony alert) and the other next year in a South Indian town with ancient Hindu significance, that bonhomie did not prevent the border clash or the events leading to it (which was the result of an escalating series of miscalculations in reading the actions of the other not just by commanders at the border but at a more political level).

    A fundamental problem seems to be that India believes trust and closer economic ties will follow resolution – or at least calming – of the border issue, while China believes that closer economic ties will result in the trust needed to settle the border issues. India meanwhile is apprehensive that China’s stronger economy will be a detriment to India’s if they fully opened up (the same concerns India has of the US which is why a trade agreement with the Trump admin was repeatedly postponed)

    It is not clear how to resolve this convoluted problem with the border issue seen as a test of National Resolve by each. It seems that both sides are seeking a face-saving exit without compromising their military potentials. So the best hope for now appears to be kicking the can down the road for a proper settlement and focus on ensuring a war doesn’t break out.

  37. @AltanBakshi
    @sher singh

    Dost Uttarakuru mitr nahi hindu ya bharati. Vah swed pasand bhadkana.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Not swed but sveedish.

  38. @Thulean Friend
    Absolute STATE of jattoid sikhs

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353975938812317698?s=20

    Notice that they are supplanting the Indian flag with their own sectarian one: Nishan Sahib.

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353984535084470272?s=20

    Remember these things when our resident budcel crawl all up the asses of the sikhs. They aren't heroes and most of them are thugs.

    Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous, @sher singh, @RadicalCenter, @g2k, @ivan

    Let the Punjabis have their own country already.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @RadicalCenter

    Actually Punjabis are the dominant plurality of Pakistan, so it can be said that Punjabis have their own country already.

    , @Europe Europa
    @RadicalCenter

    It surprises me how attached many people seem to be to Indian unity and the modern Indian state considering both are basically British colonial inventions and legacies.

  39. @unit472
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Not really. I had a cabin the mountains of SW Virginia for a few years. That's Appalachia. Most folks were poor and didn't farm at all. Those that did had land. They also had day jobs but spent all their money on acquiring more land so they could lose more money on their cattle, farming and timber operations.

    I saw the same thing on an even grander scale in California. Friend of mine's father grew raisins in the Central Valley. Met him at his beach house in Santa Cruz where, just back from a European vacation he ranted and raved about low prices, high costs and how little money he made.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    My sister and her husband made such a shameless profit on their farm in Illinois that they were forced to sell it in the 80s and take up new careers. So a full picture would include both people like them and people like the guy you’re discussing.

  40. @RadicalCenter
    @Thulean Friend

    Let the Punjabis have their own country already.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Europe Europa

    Actually Punjabis are the dominant plurality of Pakistan, so it can be said that Punjabis have their own country already.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
  41. I notice many on the right seem to be in a bit of a moral dilemma about the anti-lock down protests/riots in Holland, etc. Some on the right support it and are glad that people are rising up against the lock down and confronting police, etc.

    Others see it in the context of Muslim/immigrant riots in general and are completely against and angry about it, even though they’d probably support the same actions if it was white people doing it.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Europe Europa

    There are also people who consider the protests dumb and are saddened by the fact that the right dumbly chose to engage in Covid-denial instead of using it to argue for closed borders forever.

    Replies: @g2k

  42. china-russia-all-the-way says:

    There is a secessionist angle to the farm protests linked to the standoff with China in Ladakh that is completely missing as a narrative in Indian media coverage. The farm protests may have disrupted supply of fuel and heating oil for the Indian Army in the freezing forward areas of Ladakh. Before the end of October, both armies had to stockpile supplies for months in the high mountains because snowfall blocks the roads for months. In October, a report emerged from Ladakh that fuel was in short supply due to farm protests. No mention is made of Army logistical problems. I assume the Army is similarly affected but it is not reported due to consideration for military sensitivity.

    The farmers’ agitation in Punjab over the controversial farm bills passed by the Centre has led to the ‘fuel crisis’ in Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh due to rail service being disrupted.

    The Union territories could be staring at a fuel crisis as many petrol pumps may go dry in the next couple of days.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/farmers-agitation-hits-fuel-supplies-to-j-k-ladakh/story-KbAxUMcmFn9CvyQth6ub1N.html

    In another report, the farm protestors appear to be aware of the disruptive effect of their actions on supplying war in Ladakh. However, they don’t seem to give a hoot. The report says the farmers hurled abuse using Khalistan slogans at an army convoy in September.

    It took senior officers leading the heavy police force in riot gear over an hour to persuade the agitators to allow the Army cavalcade on emergency duty to pass through but in vain. Finally, the police made way for the Army convoy and let it pass through the wrong side of the highway on its forward journey.

    Later, an Army Gypsy was also stopped by the protesters. Instead of giving it passage, they shouted pro-Khalistan slogans, forcing the Army vehicle to move back.

    https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/haryana/army-convoy-stalled-by-farmers-in-ambala-pro-khalistan-slogans-raised-146583

    The farm protests are led by Jat Sikhs, who are a large share of the Indian Army officer corps. Sikhs overall are 1/6 or more of the Indian Army officer corps. It’s stunning to see the farm protestors who must have relatives deployed in Ladkah dismiss the pleas of the military and use Khalistan slogans to chase away a convoy. The Khalistan insurgency was quelled by the early 1990s but it shook India at its foundations. From the disloyal actions of the farm protestors I see the possibility of it reigniting.

    There is also a sex ratio at birth angle to the farm protests. The community in India with the very worst SRB is the Jat Sikh. The massive bride crunch may compel even more pugnacious behavior from the premier Indian martial race.

    • Disagree: Jatt Aryaa
    • Thanks: TheTotallyAnonymous
  43. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Ludwig

    What is preventing both sides from demarcating the borders in an appropriate manner? Those regions are mostly useless as far as the scope of land development is concerned anyway, the British cartographers who drew up the boundaries did it using quite a thick pencil on a not so detailed map, assuming that those areas do not need to be detailed too much.

    Replies: @songbird, @Ludwig

    There are really two border issues: one is where the legal border is, and the second is where the Line of Actual Control, ie where the de facto border is.

    The legal border is settled in a few places but in key areas it is not. In particular India claims a part of Aksai Chin occupied by China as part of the erstwhile kingdom of Jammu & Kashmir which is of course also claimed in entirety by Pakistan (apart from many in the region who would rather be independent from everyone). This piece of land is quite strategic as a key road runs through it to connect China proper to Pakistan as part of China’s larger Belt & Road Initiative. India will never give up the claim and neither will China ever relinquish it and China in fact has aggressively built up defenses in the area to prevent India from ever overrunning that area and cutting off that road.

    Similarly in the East there is a state that is occupied by India that China claims as part of South Tibet. This is strategic for India as it opens up its eastern Indian states to China if relinquished. Again the chances of resolving this are slim (though China has offered various land swaps).

    These issue were handed down by the British – then colonizing India – drawing their lines with Tibet with China claiming that Tibet at the time did not have the right to agree to the border and only China proper did rendering any such agreements null and void and historical Tibetan kingdom claims taking precedence.

    So to resolve the legal border issue will take a long time – perhaps geological plate dynamics might resolve something over eons (though actually the Indian subcontinent is pushing against the Asian landmass and Tibet, versus tearing away.)

    What’s more hopeful is an agreement on the Line of Actual Control (LAC) ie the de facto line.

    Unfortunately the de facto line itself is disputed and by definition since a de facto line means the line till which you actually occupy the land, as the snows melt, patrols of soldiers go up from forward bases to where they feel their claim points are with an agreement that if they encounter an opposing patrol, they will turn back to where the undisputed claim lines are. (There is a whole procedure worked out where upon meeting the opposing soldiers will unfurl banners in English, Hindi, Mandarin with some standard verbiage claiming the land, before disengaging). To prevent lethal escalations, there is also an agreement that soldiers don’t carry guns on patrols in these disputed areas.

    This game, ridiculous as it sounds, works when each side retreats during the winters to more stable bases in undisputed territory and re-emerges to stomp around their claimed ones.

    China with its superior infrastructure, surveillance and supply chains is seen to have been violating this agreement by making permanent structures and roads that can carry heavy trucks on what India claims are at the least disputed areas of the LAC while the Indian side have little built up roads or structures in these areas.

    So the Chinese have been seen to have pushed right up to their claim line and in some cases have even moved the claim line (like in the area in which 20 Indian soldiers and an unknown number of Chinese ones died in hand-to-hand combat and attacks with barbed-wire clubs thus keeping to the letter if not the spirit of the agreement against guns).

    Many of these areas are strategic either offensively or defensively in the sense that occupying them would give them an geographical advantage, eg commanding heights or water sources to control downstream lands dozens of miles away. There are valleys through which soldiers can potentially invade into the other’s territory proper.

    To disengage from this situation as per the Indian side requires the Chinese to dismantle their infrastructure and return to the status quo of some years prior. China sees their buildings as perfectly legitimate as per their claim lines. As per India, the Chinese will offer to only remove some but then gradually encroach the next year more and more making their de facto area larger and larger, so basically moving back 2 km and advancing 3 km and so on.

    This has happened not just in remote areas but in the de facto Indian state that China claims. Eg see https://www.10bmnews.com/2021/01/india-was-left-staring-china-occupied.html where China is claimed to have built a whole residential area 4.5 km inside India’s claim line.

    All this is part of China’s fairly aggressive “offensive defense” across various disputed areas from the South China Sea to the land borders with India. India sees this as Xi trying to take advantage of India’s relative weakness before a stronger India makes this expansion more difficult.

    This also coincides with China’s rapid rise – especially during the global pandemic which has weakened a lot of its rivals. Thus India, the weaker party, turns to the US to try and gain leverage in the ocean while trying not to become another US puppet even as the US itself is losing clout.

    Russia meanwhile gets all this and is sympathetic to India’s position even as it itself needs China as a bulwark against the West. As to how the India-China border situation will evolve is to be seen, but a quick solution seems unlikely.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Ludwig

    "The legal border is settled in a few places but in key areas it is not. In particular India claims a part of Aksai Chin occupied by China as part of the erstwhile kingdom of Jammu & Kashmir which is of course also claimed in entirety by Pakistan (apart from many in the region who would rather be independent from everyone). This piece of land is quite strategic as a key road runs through it to connect China proper to Pakistan as part of China’s larger Belt & Road Initiative. India will never give up the claim and neither will China ever relinquish it and China in fact has aggressively built up defenses in the area to prevent India from ever overrunning that area and cutting off that road."

    Again I have to disagree. China was willing to give up Aksai China in return for South Tibet. In the 1960's war China march all the way through to their claim in South Tibet but voluntarily withdrew. They were willing to give Askai Chin rather than just strong arm India - which they could have at the time. If you look at China's border issues - it actually gave up land to every single neighbor it had a dispute with. India refused...
    It has little to do with strength. Little Tajikstan and weak Kazakstan got plenty of land from China. Myanmar did. So it's not just "strong" Russia that China willingly gave up land to. India simply refused to negotiate on anything and wants the British Raj back. It's just like India's beef with Pakistan. The simplest solution is for both of them to take the part of Kashmir that they claim. If Kashmiris don't want to be part of India (which many don't) they could move to the Pakistani side. Extreme nationalism is dangerous. There are indeed certain claims China has never given up and won't - which are Taiwan and the islands in the South China Sea. But when you look at the constitution of the Republic of China in Taiwan - they claim MILLIONS of more square kilometers than are occupied by the People's Republic right now. Xi is not trying to get any of those lands back (even though some slanderously try to say they will - in order to stir up angst among their neighbors). Even in the South China Sea - China has never said they control all the resources... What they have said is wherever claims overlap there should be joint sharing of resources. The US didn't like that plan so stirred up the former Filipino government (the current one under Duterte agrees with the idea but much of their military is still subservient to US interests). Malaysia and Brunei were amicable towards the idea also -but Vietnam wasn't/isn't.
    The only other land border China hasn't formalized is with Bhutan. Again - China offered a swap - which would actually give Bhutan a small increase in land. Bhutan is very willing to do it... However - India though has veto over Bhutan's foreign policy and won't let them do it - because they fear losing their northeast territories - which are very restive.

    That said - I do agree with your overall sentiments.

  44. I don’t like it when people call Sikh farmers “clowns” and call for the tanks to be sent in. It sounds like high caste Hindu bigotry, which has caused so many problems in Silicon Valley. Sikhs are honest, hard working people, unlike some Indians.

    • Agree: Jatt Aryaa, Bashibuzuk
  45. @RadicalCenter
    @Thulean Friend

    Let the Punjabis have their own country already.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Europe Europa

    It surprises me how attached many people seem to be to Indian unity and the modern Indian state considering both are basically British colonial inventions and legacies.

  46. @Europe Europa
    I notice many on the right seem to be in a bit of a moral dilemma about the anti-lock down protests/riots in Holland, etc. Some on the right support it and are glad that people are rising up against the lock down and confronting police, etc.

    Others see it in the context of Muslim/immigrant riots in general and are completely against and angry about it, even though they'd probably support the same actions if it was white people doing it.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    There are also people who consider the protests dumb and are saddened by the fact that the right dumbly chose to engage in Covid-denial instead of using it to argue for closed borders forever.

    • LOL: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @g2k
    @reiner Tor

    I'm sure if you wanted to emigrate to North Korea it would be possible.

    Replies: @g2k

  47. @Thulean Friend
    Absolute STATE of jattoid sikhs

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353975938812317698?s=20

    Notice that they are supplanting the Indian flag with their own sectarian one: Nishan Sahib.

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353984535084470272?s=20

    Remember these things when our resident budcel crawl all up the asses of the sikhs. They aren't heroes and most of them are thugs.

    Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous, @sher singh, @RadicalCenter, @g2k, @ivan

    What’s with the anti Sikh sentiment? As a group they’re perhaps more compatible with european culture than any other from the Indian subcontinent. Before the Corona cult lobotomised them, the French used to do this kind of thing every few months.

    • Replies: @Shortsword
    @g2k


    As a group they’re perhaps more compatible with european culture than any other from the Indian subcontinent.
     
    Why is that? I don't know much about Sikhs but I almost get the impression there is a dedicated PR team working for Sikhs. It seems like every time I read about Sikhs they are described in a positive way.

    Replies: @Europe Europa

  48. @reiner Tor
    @Europe Europa

    There are also people who consider the protests dumb and are saddened by the fact that the right dumbly chose to engage in Covid-denial instead of using it to argue for closed borders forever.

    Replies: @g2k

    I’m sure if you wanted to emigrate to North Korea it would be possible.

    • Replies: @g2k
    @g2k


    closed borders forever
     
    N.B, delete previous comment,it timed out for an edit.

    I’m sure if you wanted to emigrate to North Korea it would be possible. In all seriousness, on what planet would that lead to anything other than total immiseration? Ensure the peasants don't leave their parish. Yarvin said something along those lines in an article last year and people seem to have been regurgitating it in these circles ever since, and it's just lunatic. Would prefer to side with the critical theory and pronouns crowd than that.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  49. @g2k
    @Thulean Friend

    What's with the anti Sikh sentiment? As a group they're perhaps more compatible with european culture than any other from the Indian subcontinent. Before the Corona cult lobotomised them, the French used to do this kind of thing every few months.

    https://youtu.be/EgDimvKtB90

    Replies: @Shortsword

    As a group they’re perhaps more compatible with european culture than any other from the Indian subcontinent.

    Why is that? I don’t know much about Sikhs but I almost get the impression there is a dedicated PR team working for Sikhs. It seems like every time I read about Sikhs they are described in a positive way.

    • Agree: Dreadilk
    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    @Shortsword

    This definitely seems to be the case in the UK, even people who would otherwise be described as "racists" seem to love the Sikhs.

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

  50. @g2k
    @reiner Tor

    I'm sure if you wanted to emigrate to North Korea it would be possible.

    Replies: @g2k

    closed borders forever

    N.B, delete previous comment,it timed out for an edit.

    I’m sure if you wanted to emigrate to North Korea it would be possible. In all seriousness, on what planet would that lead to anything other than total immiseration? Ensure the peasants don’t leave their parish. Yarvin said something along those lines in an article last year and people seem to have been regurgitating it in these circles ever since, and it’s just lunatic. Would prefer to side with the critical theory and pronouns crowd than that.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @g2k


    I’m sure if you wanted to emigrate to North Korea it would be possible.
     
    Now that’s an original argument. I have never heard it from liberals. Jk, of course they use it all the time.

    In all seriousness
     
    In all seriousness, international travel needs to be restricted if you are to restrict third world immigration. You are not a serious person if you don’t think it’s necessary. Also, the “peasants” need to spend their lives where they were born. No way around that.

    Would prefer to side with the critical theory and pronouns crowd
     
    Good to know.
  51. @Znzn
    Japan has a price floor for farmers which gives them a certain guaranteed profit margin which makes it not quite a bad thing, paying farmers to not overproduce, so as to manage supply also works.The US also had this before the 1970s.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Not Only Wrathful

    Japan has very little arable land. Japan is weird in this respect

  52. The Modi gang is worried about protests from farmers in Punjab, as they are apt to turn militant, able to fight the Indian Army, and the Sikhs in fact forms a large cohort of the Indian Army itself, along with their ex-servicemen. This is about the only movement in the North that can stop the Gujarat bania combine from monetizing Indian agriculture for their benefit. Gujaratis can talk, but cannot really handle a gun. Sikhs can do both. That is why the Modiots are pulling all out all stops, but so far with little success. Both the major Sikh parties (one of which was aligned with Modi until recently) are in unison over this. Any miscalculation by the Modiot will put Punjab back in the state it was in the 80s.

    The principle of federalism requires, that a particular state’s vital interests must trump federal dictates. The peculiarities and precariousness of farm ownership require that farmers keep their lands in the face of all kinds emoluments. For millions will be thrown out to the tender mercies of the corporations, if the net of the extended family ownership of land is torn apart, as is the design of the RSS for Punjab.

    The Modi government is a total failure in creating jobs, we now have in India possibly a lower standard of living than BanglaDesh, and by all measures have fallen back in childhood nutrition (for the poor). The burden of all of Modi’s “reforms” have fallen disproportionately on the poor. The vast majority of them though, smoking the opium of the Hindu religion, have all kinds distractions such as the Ram Temple. The Sikhs though are of a different religion, and cannot be ritually denounced as ‘anti-national’ as is done with the Muslims in India. Hence the Modiot’s dilemma. Sikhs have long memories.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @ivan


    This is about the only movement in the North that can stop the Gujarat bania combine from monetizing Indian agriculture for their benefit.
     
    .

    THIS! Unlike some here believe, the real jews of India are not brahmins but bania vaishyas, especially banias of Gujarat.

    Ironically brahmins of India have often supported socialist policies. Nehru was a brahmin, many socialist and communist leaders in India have brahmin origins, especially in heavily socialist Kerala and West Bengal.

    I have somewhat mixed opinion regarding Modi, theres nothing wrong in Hindu nationalism itself, and Muslims had undeserved privileges during the congress rule, and Indias economic system was too inefficient and closed, but what Modi is trying to achieve with his policies, does he have any clear vision of future India that he strives to achieve?

    Replies: @barr, @ivan

  53. @Shortsword
    @g2k


    As a group they’re perhaps more compatible with european culture than any other from the Indian subcontinent.
     
    Why is that? I don't know much about Sikhs but I almost get the impression there is a dedicated PR team working for Sikhs. It seems like every time I read about Sikhs they are described in a positive way.

    Replies: @Europe Europa

    This definitely seems to be the case in the UK, even people who would otherwise be described as “racists” seem to love the Sikhs.

    • Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Europe Europa


    This definitely seems to be the case in the UK, even people who would otherwise be described as “racists” seem to love the Sikhs.
     
    Could be due to the Sikh people's history with Islam and the British Empire. The former they fought against fiercely and the latter they fought with fiercely. They do seem to occupy this niche of model minority in the UK I have noticed.
  54. @Thulean Friend
    Absolute STATE of jattoid sikhs

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353975938812317698?s=20

    Notice that they are supplanting the Indian flag with their own sectarian one: Nishan Sahib.

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353984535084470272?s=20

    Remember these things when our resident budcel crawl all up the asses of the sikhs. They aren't heroes and most of them are thugs.

    Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous, @sher singh, @RadicalCenter, @g2k, @ivan

    Why don’t you call yourself something more appropriate : Trishul Sangh, Vahini Rider or something more appropriate.

  55. @ivan
    The Modi gang is worried about protests from farmers in Punjab, as they are apt to turn militant, able to fight the Indian Army, and the Sikhs in fact forms a large cohort of the Indian Army itself, along with their ex-servicemen. This is about the only movement in the North that can stop the Gujarat bania combine from monetizing Indian agriculture for their benefit. Gujaratis can talk, but cannot really handle a gun. Sikhs can do both. That is why the Modiots are pulling all out all stops, but so far with little success. Both the major Sikh parties (one of which was aligned with Modi until recently) are in unison over this. Any miscalculation by the Modiot will put Punjab back in the state it was in the 80s.

    The principle of federalism requires, that a particular state's vital interests must trump federal dictates. The peculiarities and precariousness of farm ownership require that farmers keep their lands in the face of all kinds emoluments. For millions will be thrown out to the tender mercies of the corporations, if the net of the extended family ownership of land is torn apart, as is the design of the RSS for Punjab.

    The Modi government is a total failure in creating jobs, we now have in India possibly a lower standard of living than BanglaDesh, and by all measures have fallen back in childhood nutrition (for the poor). The burden of all of Modi's "reforms" have fallen disproportionately on the poor. The vast majority of them though, smoking the opium of the Hindu religion, have all kinds distractions such as the Ram Temple. The Sikhs though are of a different religion, and cannot be ritually denounced as 'anti-national' as is done with the Muslims in India. Hence the Modiot's dilemma. Sikhs have long memories.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    This is about the only movement in the North that can stop the Gujarat bania combine from monetizing Indian agriculture for their benefit.

    .

    THIS! Unlike some here believe, the real jews of India are not brahmins but bania vaishyas, especially banias of Gujarat.

    Ironically brahmins of India have often supported socialist policies. Nehru was a brahmin, many socialist and communist leaders in India have brahmin origins, especially in heavily socialist Kerala and West Bengal.

    I have somewhat mixed opinion regarding Modi, theres nothing wrong in Hindu nationalism itself, and Muslims had undeserved privileges during the congress rule, and Indias economic system was too inefficient and closed, but what Modi is trying to achieve with his policies, does he have any clear vision of future India that he strives to achieve?

    • Replies: @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Can you name the privileges enjoyed by Muslims ? Can you name one ?

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @ivan
    @AltanBakshi

    The Brahmins of South India have gotten a bad rap. Theirs is the tribe of many of the Indian high-flyers in the West. I am not upto speed on the Brahmins of the North. As for the Muslims, I agree that they were courted by the Congress as a vote bank. That was when Congress lost its way in the 80s. The strange thing is that in those years I was one of countless Indians who supported the Congress over Punjab. Sad to say I had even thought that the Sikhs deserved the post Indira Gandhi massacres.

    But what happened as a direct though unintended result of that was Congress appeasement of the conservative Muslims, which it then promptly balanced by appeasing the RSS aligned Hindus under Advani. The rest as they say is history. From a mere two seats in the early 80s, the RSS/BJP have grown to a brute majority of more than 310 in the Indian Parliament. All this was the direct result of the Congress' failure to address it's role in the massacre of the Sikhs . We didn't know it then, but the culture of impunity whereby whole villages could be massacres with feeble judicial cover-ups through toothless enquiries had by then set in.

    Muslim appeasement by the Congress could have been said to have reached its peak in the mid 80s , when we had AR Antulay as Chief Minister of Maharashtra, Rajiv Gandhi's bungling of the Shah Bano case and for added colour his banning of Rushdie's Satanic Verses.

    So yes there was Muslim appeasement for a short period in the 80s. There is no appeasement of Muslims today and this has been the case for some decades now.

  56. THIS! Unlike some here believe, the real jews of India are not brahmins but bania vaishyas, especially banias of Gujarat.

    It seems to be a combination of the two, When will the Brahmin-Bania hegemony end?

    The Sensex comprises the 30 largest traded companies of India.

    ACC is run by a Brahmin (Sumit Banerjee), Bhel is run by a Brahmin (Ravi Kumar Krishna Swamy), Bharti Airtel is run by a Bania (Sunil Mittal), Grasim and Hindalco are run by a Bania (Kumar Mangalam Birla).

    HDFC is run by a Bania (Deepak Parekh), Hindustan Unilever is run by a Brahmin (Nitin Paranjpe), ICICI Bank is headed by a Brahmin (K.V. Kamath). Jaiprakash Associates is run by a Brahmin (Yogesh Gaur), L&T is run by a Brahmin (A.M. Naik), NTPC is run by a Brahmin (R.S. Sharma), ONGC is run by a Brahmin (also called R.S. Sharma). Reliance group firms are run by Banias (Mukesh and Anil Ambani), State Bank of India is run by a Brahmin (O.P. Bhatt), Sterlite Industries is run by a Bania (Anil Agarwal), Sun Pharma is run by a Bania (Dilip Shanghvi) and Tata Steel is run by a Brahmin (B. Muthuraman).

    Punjab National Bank is run by a Brahmin (K.C. Chakrabarty), Bank of Baroda is run by a Brahmin (M.D. Mallya) and Canara Bank is run by a Bania (A.C. Mahajan).

    Of India’s software companies, Infosys is run by a Brahmin (Kris Gopalakrishnan now and Narayana Murthy and Nandan Nilekani before him). TCS is run by a Brahmin (Subramanian Ramadorai). Wipro is owned by a Khoja (Azim Premji). Khojas are Shia of the Sevener sect, converted from the Luhana trading community (same caste as L.K. Advani and M.A. Jinnah).

    India’s two largest airlines are Kingfisher, owned by a Brahmin (Vijay Mallya) and Jet, owned by a Bania (Naresh Goyal).

    Of India’s mobile phone firms, Reliance Communications (Ambani), Airtel (Mittal), Vodafone Essar (Ruia), Idea (Birla), Spice (Modi) are owned by Banias. BSNL is run by a Bania (Kuldeep Goyal) and Tata’s TTML is run by a Brahmin (K.A. Chaukar).

    Cricket in India is run by a Bania (Lalit Modi) and before him it was run by another Bania (Jagmohan Dalmiya).

    Media in India is almost entirely controlled by Banias and Jains. Of the two largest English newspapers, TheTimes of India is owned by Jains and the Hindustan Times is owned by Banias (Birla). The third largest English paper, TheHindu, is owned by Brahmins (Kasturi Iyengar family). The Indian Express is owned by Banias (Goenka). Zee TV is owned by a Bania (Subhash Chandra Goel). Of the two largest Hindi newspapers, Dainik Jagran is owned by Banias (Gupta), and Dainik Bhaskar is owned by Banias (Agarwal). The Agarwals also own Gujarati daily Divya Bhaskar. The largest Gujarati newspaper Gujarat Samachar is owned by Jains (Shah). The largest Marathi paper Lokmat is owned by Jains (Darda). Rajasthan Patrika is owned by Jains (Kothari). Navbharat Times is owned by Jains and Hindustan owned by Banias (Birla). Amar Ujala is owned by Banias (Maheshwari).

    Of India’s steel companies Essar is owned by Banias (Ruia), ArcelorMittal is owned by a Bania (Laxmi Mittal), Ispat is owned by Banias (Mittals), Jindal Steel is owned by Banias, Bhushan Steel is owned by Banias (Singhal), VISA Steel is owned by Banias (Agarwal). State-owned SAIL is run by a Bania (S.K. Roongta) and Lloyd Steel is owned by Banias (Gupta).

    Of India’s cement companies, Ambuja is owned by Banias (Neotia and Sekhsaria), Dalmia Cements is owned by Banias, Ultratech and Vikram Cement are owned by Banias (Birla) and JK Cement is owned by Banias (Singhania).

    Hindustan Motors is owned by Banias (Birla) and Bajaj Auto is owned by Banias.

    Old economy, new economy: All economy in India is owned and run by two castes.

    • Thanks: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    I believe that there are over 5 crore brahmins in India, but gujarati banias are much smaller group, and most Indian jains belong to bania caste, they are not religiously exclusive community, and not actually a caste or varna but jati or subcaste of Vaishyas, Im not sure, but I think that there is only about one crore of banias. Brahmins are much bigger and diverse group than banias.

    , @catchastar
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell


    Bhel is run by a Brahmin (Ravi Kumar Krishna Swamy),
     
    BHEL is a govt. company run by bureaucrats.

    NTPC is run by a Brahmin (R.S. Sharma), ONGC is run by a Brahmin (also called R.S. Sharma). State Bank of India is run by a Brahmin (O.P. Bhatt), Tata Steel is run by a Brahmin (B. Muthuraman).
     
    NTPC, ONGC, SBI are all govt. enterprises run by bureaucrats. Tata Steel is owned/controlled by the Tatas, a wealthy Parsi industrialist family.

    Punjab National Bank is run by a Brahmin (K.C. Chakrabarty), Bank of Baroda is run by a Brahmin (M.D. Mallya) and Canara Bank is run by a Bania (A.C. Mahajan).
     
    All govt. owned public sector banks run by career bureaucrats.

    BSNL is run by a Bania (Kuldeep Goyal) and Tata’s TTML is run by a Brahmin (K.A. Chaukar).
     
    BSNL is a govt. owned telecom company run by bureaucrats. TTML and all Tata companies mentioned in this article are owned/controlled by the Tatas - a Parsi family group.

    Cricket in India is run by a Bania (Lalit Modi) and before him it was run by another Bania (Jagmohan Dalmiya).
     
    Cricket is controlled by the Cricket Board, a semi-govt. managed/appointed board.

    Media in India is almost entirely controlled by Banias and Jains.
     
    Largely but not entirely. NDTV is owned by Prannoy Roy and Republic TV by Arnab Goswami, two of the largest, most influential tv channels. Sun TV and a myriad regional channels and papers owned by regional owners.

    State-owned SAIL is run by a Bania (S.K. Roongta)
     
    Owned by govt. of india and run by bureaucrats.

    Hindustan Motors is owned by Banias (Birla)
     
    HM is a dead company.

    All companies apart from the ones I have listed above, are public limited companies which are run professionally. What of it? Now you are going to target successful enterpreneurs who take risks and build a legacy? Then target the Jewish and Anglo owners of MNC's also. And target the Arab, Lebanese, Dutch, German and American owners of large listed companies also. Target Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos for running CIA funded front companies. Bezos owns Wapo, and NYT has Jewish owners. The list is endless. We get it. This website and many of its authors are anti-India.

  57. @Europe Europa
    @Shortsword

    This definitely seems to be the case in the UK, even people who would otherwise be described as "racists" seem to love the Sikhs.

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    This definitely seems to be the case in the UK, even people who would otherwise be described as “racists” seem to love the Sikhs.

    Could be due to the Sikh people’s history with Islam and the British Empire. The former they fought against fiercely and the latter they fought with fiercely. They do seem to occupy this niche of model minority in the UK I have noticed.

  58. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    THIS! Unlike some here believe, the real jews of India are not brahmins but bania vaishyas, especially banias of Gujarat.
     
    It seems to be a combination of the two, When will the Brahmin-Bania hegemony end?

    The Sensex comprises the 30 largest traded companies of India.

    ACC is run by a Brahmin (Sumit Banerjee), Bhel is run by a Brahmin (Ravi Kumar Krishna Swamy), Bharti Airtel is run by a Bania (Sunil Mittal), Grasim and Hindalco are run by a Bania (Kumar Mangalam Birla).

    HDFC is run by a Bania (Deepak Parekh), Hindustan Unilever is run by a Brahmin (Nitin Paranjpe), ICICI Bank is headed by a Brahmin (K.V. Kamath). Jaiprakash Associates is run by a Brahmin (Yogesh Gaur), L&T is run by a Brahmin (A.M. Naik), NTPC is run by a Brahmin (R.S. Sharma), ONGC is run by a Brahmin (also called R.S. Sharma). Reliance group firms are run by Banias (Mukesh and Anil Ambani), State Bank of India is run by a Brahmin (O.P. Bhatt), Sterlite Industries is run by a Bania (Anil Agarwal), Sun Pharma is run by a Bania (Dilip Shanghvi) and Tata Steel is run by a Brahmin (B. Muthuraman).

    Punjab National Bank is run by a Brahmin (K.C. Chakrabarty), Bank of Baroda is run by a Brahmin (M.D. Mallya) and Canara Bank is run by a Bania (A.C. Mahajan).

    Of India’s software companies, Infosys is run by a Brahmin (Kris Gopalakrishnan now and Narayana Murthy and Nandan Nilekani before him). TCS is run by a Brahmin (Subramanian Ramadorai). Wipro is owned by a Khoja (Azim Premji). Khojas are Shia of the Sevener sect, converted from the Luhana trading community (same caste as L.K. Advani and M.A. Jinnah).

    India’s two largest airlines are Kingfisher, owned by a Brahmin (Vijay Mallya) and Jet, owned by a Bania (Naresh Goyal).

    Of India’s mobile phone firms, Reliance Communications (Ambani), Airtel (Mittal), Vodafone Essar (Ruia), Idea (Birla), Spice (Modi) are owned by Banias. BSNL is run by a Bania (Kuldeep Goyal) and Tata’s TTML is run by a Brahmin (K.A. Chaukar).


    Cricket in India is run by a Bania (Lalit Modi) and before him it was run by another Bania (Jagmohan Dalmiya).

    Media in India is almost entirely controlled by Banias and Jains. Of the two largest English newspapers, TheTimes of India is owned by Jains and the Hindustan Times is owned by Banias (Birla). The third largest English paper, TheHindu, is owned by Brahmins (Kasturi Iyengar family). The Indian Express is owned by Banias (Goenka). Zee TV is owned by a Bania (Subhash Chandra Goel). Of the two largest Hindi newspapers, Dainik Jagran is owned by Banias (Gupta), and Dainik Bhaskar is owned by Banias (Agarwal). The Agarwals also own Gujarati daily Divya Bhaskar. The largest Gujarati newspaper Gujarat Samachar is owned by Jains (Shah). The largest Marathi paper Lokmat is owned by Jains (Darda). Rajasthan Patrika is owned by Jains (Kothari). Navbharat Times is owned by Jains and Hindustan owned by Banias (Birla). Amar Ujala is owned by Banias (Maheshwari).


    Of India’s steel companies Essar is owned by Banias (Ruia), ArcelorMittal is owned by a Bania (Laxmi Mittal), Ispat is owned by Banias (Mittals), Jindal Steel is owned by Banias, Bhushan Steel is owned by Banias (Singhal), VISA Steel is owned by Banias (Agarwal). State-owned SAIL is run by a Bania (S.K. Roongta) and Lloyd Steel is owned by Banias (Gupta).

    Of India’s cement companies, Ambuja is owned by Banias (Neotia and Sekhsaria), Dalmia Cements is owned by Banias, Ultratech and Vikram Cement are owned by Banias (Birla) and JK Cement is owned by Banias (Singhania).

    Hindustan Motors is owned by Banias (Birla) and Bajaj Auto is owned by Banias.

    Old economy, new economy: All economy in India is owned and run by two castes.
     

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @catchastar

    I believe that there are over 5 crore brahmins in India, but gujarati banias are much smaller group, and most Indian jains belong to bania caste, they are not religiously exclusive community, and not actually a caste or varna but jati or subcaste of Vaishyas, Im not sure, but I think that there is only about one crore of banias. Brahmins are much bigger and diverse group than banias.

  59. @AltanBakshi
    @ivan


    This is about the only movement in the North that can stop the Gujarat bania combine from monetizing Indian agriculture for their benefit.
     
    .

    THIS! Unlike some here believe, the real jews of India are not brahmins but bania vaishyas, especially banias of Gujarat.

    Ironically brahmins of India have often supported socialist policies. Nehru was a brahmin, many socialist and communist leaders in India have brahmin origins, especially in heavily socialist Kerala and West Bengal.

    I have somewhat mixed opinion regarding Modi, theres nothing wrong in Hindu nationalism itself, and Muslims had undeserved privileges during the congress rule, and Indias economic system was too inefficient and closed, but what Modi is trying to achieve with his policies, does he have any clear vision of future India that he strives to achieve?

    Replies: @barr, @ivan

    Can you name the privileges enjoyed by Muslims ? Can you name one ?

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Oh well they were quite numerous, like a right to have multiple wives, separate Islamic law code and sharia courts, in regards of inheritance, divorce etc. They still have privileges, but not so many, thanks to the BJP. I think that such situation was quite unequal, especially when non-muslims like Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists couldnt be judged according to their religious law. If legal opinion of mufti is respected in the court of law, why then not Hindu sannyasins or Buddhist monks?

    Replies: @barr

  60. @Ludwig
    @Felix Keverich

    Modi’s government is nationalistic and similar in that sense to Trump’s. It aims for a more hard nosed India-first policy which mutes if not abandons some of the traditional idealism based policies - at least in name if not in practice - of aligning with anti-imperial forces and causes worldwide.

    In that way, Modi’s policies are not dissimilar to Putin’s which are more realism than ideological based. While Modi’s government has welcomed closer relations with the US and Israel, it has mostly been careful not to do so at the expense of relations with Russia, rejecting zero-sum geopolitical games that the Western bloc encourages. India too is a strong adherent to the concept of a multi-polar world.

    Indeed Modi has often spoken of Putin as a man whose word one can trust; Lavrov has just last week said this as part of his annual presser: (see https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/4527635)


    The partnership between Russia and India is called slightly differently. You called it a strategic partnership. This was the original title. Some years later, the Indian side proposed to call it a privileged strategic partnership. And a few years ago, when Prime Minister Modi became the head of the Indian government, we changed it to a specially privileged strategic partnership.

    I believe there is room for further improvement, but the current terminology indicates a special kind of relationship. India is our very close, very strategic and very privileged partner. Take the economy, take innovations, high technology or military and technical cooperation, India is one of our closest partners in all these areas. We have close political coordination in the United Nations and within BRICS.
     
    India has either voted with Russia or abstained but not voted against Russian interests at the UN. It continues cooperation on the defense and nuclear industries, and are aligned on various geopolitical issues like Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela. Sputnik V is on track to be approved in weeks as soon as Phase 3 trials are complete in India, with India to produce the vaccines both for internal as well as Russian market.

    The one irritant is not so much India working with the US or Israel (Russia too has an understanding w Israel), but the tensions between India and China which weaken the RIC, BRIC, SCO organizations. The tensions between India and China are not geopolitical in nature - though the US is trying to add this dimension to it - but the kind of border issues common throughout history between neighbors.

    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.

    Here Russia being a trusted party to both can play a strong behind the scenes part (for its own geopolitical interests which are served by more cohesion within RIC/BRICS/SCO) while of course the US in interested in fanning the flames for its own geopolitical interests.

    Replies: @JL, @Kent Nationalist, @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.

    It really does feel if any region could benefit from a buffer-state, this is the place. In terms of resources and population that whole border area is practically worthless, periodic chimpouts between two hyper-nationalist, billion-strong, nuclear-armed states over some barren rocks, where neither core-population even lives, is exactly what the world needs.

    • Replies: @AltanB
    @Yevardian


    He’s just got to be Indian, of all the countries to be obsessed with, why would anyone pick fucking India?
     
    Excuse me?

    buffer-state
     
    (Rump-)Tibet, just like Outer Mongolia between PRC and RF...

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

  61. @TheTotallyAnonymous
    @Thulean Friend


    Notice that they are supplanting the Indian flag with their own sectarian one: Nishan Sahib.

     

    This seems like a potentially worrying sign for the future of India's continued existence and viability as a large country composing lots of different castes, ethnicities, nations and etc. It's clear that the whole multi-ethnicity thing didn't work with Muslims, although perhaps issues with Sikhs and other castes/ethnicities aren't so severe and are repairable.

    Anyway, you're keen interest in this perhaps does betray that you are some sort of Indian or crypto-Indian after all. I thought this ridiculous at first, although perhaps maybe you're just a Swedecuck legit obsessed with India after all ...

    Replies: @Yevardian

    Good, why would you want to force such different people to live with each other anyway? Most Pakistanis and north Indians have more in common with each other than the Dravidian south, or especially the totally alien North-East, what a stupid artificial country.
    I mean, you can’t even stand Croats and vice-versa, and you’re practically identical.

    Anyway, you’re keen interest in this perhaps does betray that you are some sort of Indian or crypto-Indian after all. I thought this ridiculous at first, although perhaps maybe you’re just a Swedecuck legit obsessed with India after all …

    He’s just got to be Indian, of all the countries to be obsessed with, why would anyone pick fucking India?

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
    @Yevardian


    Good, why would you want to force such different people to live with each other anyway? ... what a stupid artificial country.

     

    Although your hostility towards India and Indians (of all castes, seemingly) is amusing and funny, it seems like you misinterpreted what I stated. Perhaps maybe I gave off the wrong impression that I'm deeply concerned about India's territorial integrity and the wellbeing of all of its castes, ethnicities and nations. If they insist upon breakup and separation, there is no outside force capable or willing enough to stop them from doing that in the long term, even if it tried to, no matter how hard. In fact, perhaps one of the worst things in a breakup of India would be that Pakistan and Bangladesh would invade to grab more land and Islam expands in the Indian subcontinent (this is likely a key motivator of continued Indian unity despite all the issues among the castes?).

    It would be quite tragic, in humanitarian terms at least, for there to be a dissolution/breakup of India into different castes/ethnicities forming their own ethno-state/caste-state, especially if it occurs in a similar style like former-Yugoslavia with armed and violent separatism against the federal government and army, followed by all out-war and ethnic cleansing/forced population expulsions as common practice from every combatant party (referring to 1991-1995 time period, Kosovo is a different story). It's definitely clear that such a scenario is at least more realistic than INDIA SUPERPOWER any year now, lol.


    I mean, you can’t even stand Croats and vice-versa, and you’re practically identical.

     

    Not really. Serbs and Croats are separated by different denominations/confessions of Christianity, Eastern Orthodoxy vs Roman Catholicism, so they're actually more different than it would appear on initial appearances (similar applies regarding differences between Russians, Ukranians, Uniates, Poles etc).

    He’s just got to be Indian, of all the countries to be obsessed with, why would anyone pick fucking India?

     

    LOL.

    Idk. Ask him.

    He's probably a Hindu Liberal given how much Sikh nationalism and the prospect of Sikh separatism worry and outrage him ...

  62. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Can you name the privileges enjoyed by Muslims ? Can you name one ?

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Oh well they were quite numerous, like a right to have multiple wives, separate Islamic law code and sharia courts, in regards of inheritance, divorce etc. They still have privileges, but not so many, thanks to the BJP. I think that such situation was quite unequal, especially when non-muslims like Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists couldnt be judged according to their religious law. If legal opinion of mufti is respected in the court of law, why then not Hindu sannyasins or Buddhist monks?

    • Replies: @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    1 Polygamy-"facts suggest the the practice is down from 5.7 per cent of Muslim families in 1961 to 2.55 per cent in 2006.
    The latest figures of polygamy, released by the third National Family Health Survey (NFHS), carried out in 2006, also show that two per cent women reported that their husbands had more than one wife. It found that polygamy was prevalent among 1.77 per cent Hindus, down from 5.8 per cent in 1961.
    The 1961 figures – based on Census of India data – also show that among tribals it was then widely prevalent: 15.25 of them were polygamous.” Rajib Shah-https://www.counterview.net/2016/09/polygamy-in-india-down-in-45-yrs.html#:~:text=The%20latest%20figures%20of%20polygamy,5.8%20per%20cent%20in%201961.

    Polygamy-A survey carried out by the government in 1974 put the polygamy figure at 5.6% among Muslims, and 5.8% for upper-caste Hindus . 2006 surveyIt found that a polygamous Hindu was likely to have 1.77 wives, a polygamous Muslim 2.55, Christian 2.35, and Buddhist 3.41. “R
    Venkatsaramkrihsna https://scroll.in/article/669083/muslim-women-and-the-surprising-facts-about-polygamy-in-india

    2 “separate Islamic law code and sharia courts"- Confusion supported by Congress -BJP soft communalism and hard communalism based propaganda has created a fertile base of growing burgeoning distortions . Shariah law affects muslims and doesn’t non Muslims It does not cover crime theft murder treason apostasy. It apples to personal matters including to education inheritance custody issues and divorce . Even in these cases muslim often approach Indian court system But Indian court system where millions of cases have been pending for 20 yrs or so because of lack of the resources is not equipped to hear most of the cases . And- Family court based on religion operates in USA and Canada .

    3 Mulsim doesn’t cry foul if the Indian laws made by mostly Hindus or canonized by Hindus conflict with muslim ’s values . Why should Hindu get all worked up?
    4 How does Indian law prevent the Hindu female foetcicde ? dowry death ? dowry practice? or overt discriminatory practices in public sphere against non -Hindus and Dalit ? Does muslim go to court to confront Hindu practices ? Does muslim take out protests on the street the way Hindus did about Shabanu case? Did Muslim protests the Sati carried out in 1987 about 300 miles from Delhi ?


    5 Did Indian law prevent the Hindu puja gathering , political professions ,weddings done during Corona epidemic?

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @ivan

  63. @Yevardian
    @Ludwig


    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.
     
    It really does feel if any region could benefit from a buffer-state, this is the place. In terms of resources and population that whole border area is practically worthless, periodic chimpouts between two hyper-nationalist, billion-strong, nuclear-armed states over some barren rocks, where neither core-population even lives, is exactly what the world needs.

    Replies: @AltanB

    He’s just got to be Indian, of all the countries to be obsessed with, why would anyone pick fucking India?

    Excuse me?

    buffer-state

    (Rump-)Tibet, just like Outer Mongolia between PRC and RF…

    • Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @AltanB

    How did you manage to create two commenting profiles (AltanBakshi and AltanB)? VPN?

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  64. @AltanB
    @Yevardian


    He’s just got to be Indian, of all the countries to be obsessed with, why would anyone pick fucking India?
     
    Excuse me?

    buffer-state
     
    (Rump-)Tibet, just like Outer Mongolia between PRC and RF...

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    How did you manage to create two commenting profiles (AltanBakshi and AltanB)? VPN?

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    He is just some fake impostor, just like RoC in Taipei, with their two fake provinces. I myself affirm the unity of the great Chinese motherland and give my respects to the heroic CCP, which is leading force in the global anti-imperial struggle against America and its cronies. I really do mean it, the hope lies in the ChiComs.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

  65. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Oh well they were quite numerous, like a right to have multiple wives, separate Islamic law code and sharia courts, in regards of inheritance, divorce etc. They still have privileges, but not so many, thanks to the BJP. I think that such situation was quite unequal, especially when non-muslims like Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists couldnt be judged according to their religious law. If legal opinion of mufti is respected in the court of law, why then not Hindu sannyasins or Buddhist monks?

    Replies: @barr

    1 Polygamy-“facts suggest the the practice is down from 5.7 per cent of Muslim families in 1961 to 2.55 per cent in 2006.
    The latest figures of polygamy, released by the third National Family Health Survey (NFHS), carried out in 2006, also show that two per cent women reported that their husbands had more than one wife. It found that polygamy was prevalent among 1.77 per cent Hindus, down from 5.8 per cent in 1961.
    The 1961 figures – based on Census of India data – also show that among tribals it was then widely prevalent: 15.25 of them were polygamous.” Rajib Shah-https://www.counterview.net/2016/09/polygamy-in-india-down-in-45-yrs.html#:~:text=The%20latest%20figures%20of%20polygamy,5.8%20per%20cent%20in%201961.

    Polygamy-A survey carried out by the government in 1974 put the polygamy figure at 5.6% among Muslims, and 5.8% for upper-caste Hindus . 2006 surveyIt found that a polygamous Hindu was likely to have 1.77 wives, a polygamous Muslim 2.55, Christian 2.35, and Buddhist 3.41. “R
    Venkatsaramkrihsna https://scroll.in/article/669083/muslim-women-and-the-surprising-facts-about-polygamy-in-india

    2 “separate Islamic law code and sharia courts”- Confusion supported by Congress -BJP soft communalism and hard communalism based propaganda has created a fertile base of growing burgeoning distortions . Shariah law affects muslims and doesn’t non Muslims It does not cover crime theft murder treason apostasy. It apples to personal matters including to education inheritance custody issues and divorce . Even in these cases muslim often approach Indian court system But Indian court system where millions of cases have been pending for 20 yrs or so because of lack of the resources is not equipped to hear most of the cases . And- Family court based on religion operates in USA and Canada .

    3 Mulsim doesn’t cry foul if the Indian laws made by mostly Hindus or canonized by Hindus conflict with muslim ’s values . Why should Hindu get all worked up?
    4 How does Indian law prevent the Hindu female foetcicde ? dowry death ? dowry practice? or overt discriminatory practices in public sphere against non -Hindus and Dalit ? Does muslim go to court to confront Hindu practices ? Does muslim take out protests on the street the way Hindus did about Shabanu case? Did Muslim protests the Sati carried out in 1987 about 300 miles from Delhi ?

    5 Did Indian law prevent the Hindu puja gathering , political professions ,weddings done during Corona epidemic?

    • Thanks: ivan
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    As a non-muslim you cant legally have two or four wives like Muslims have, you cant legally divorce like Muslim men, who can just verbally express themselves and thats all what they need for divorce, the Indian law system for non-Muslims is based on the British system, and you cant consult hindu or buddhist religious authorities, when the court is making its decisions, yes maybe when its about the ownership of some temple, but not when its about personal matters. Im too tired to give a complete reply for your tirade, but Muslims have or had numerous LEGAL loopholes and exceptions that non-Muslims had not, of course those non-Muslims could try to illegally give their inheritance to first born son according to some local Hindu traditions, or marry multiple wives, but such practices were not accepted in the court of law or in the eyes of state.

    You know what? Muslims have already their little Muslim Indias in Pakistan and Bangladesh, if they are not happy to be equal citizens in India, they are free to go Pakistan, there courts dont even try to be equal, and non Muslims are openly repressed, there the laws are based in shariat, I am sure that Pakistan is happy to receive Muslims from India, its even a PR victory for them.

    Does Sharia even have a place outside of the Dar al Islam? Should it have? In my opinion it should not have as long as Muslims dont allow Christians to have Christian courts in Muslim countries, or the poor Hindu, Christian and Buddhist migrants to have their own laws and courts in Gulf countries. If you deny such reciprocity but still demand Muslims to have such (extra-?)legal and religious privileges in non-Muslim countries, then you are a hypocrite.

    Replies: @barr

    , @ivan
    @barr

    Polygamy is frowned on by people in the middle and upper classes in India no matter what their religion. Of course those who have money have mistresses whatever their religion says. With the lower classes polygamy and even polyandry are somewhat tolerated. Again it doesn't matter which religion one follows. Indians love sex like all the others and would like nothing more than a religious cover for it, but that really isn't strictly necessary.

  66. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @AltanB

    How did you manage to create two commenting profiles (AltanBakshi and AltanB)? VPN?

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    He is just some fake impostor, just like RoC in Taipei, with their two fake provinces. I myself affirm the unity of the great Chinese motherland and give my respects to the heroic CCP, which is leading force in the global anti-imperial struggle against America and its cronies. I really do mean it, the hope lies in the ChiComs.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @AltanBakshi


    He is just some fake impostor
     
    AK should initiate a Strike Hard Campaign against this sort of behavior. One of the few legitimate reasons for banning IMHO.

    Impersonating an established commenter, in order to confuse discussion.
  67. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    1 Polygamy-"facts suggest the the practice is down from 5.7 per cent of Muslim families in 1961 to 2.55 per cent in 2006.
    The latest figures of polygamy, released by the third National Family Health Survey (NFHS), carried out in 2006, also show that two per cent women reported that their husbands had more than one wife. It found that polygamy was prevalent among 1.77 per cent Hindus, down from 5.8 per cent in 1961.
    The 1961 figures – based on Census of India data – also show that among tribals it was then widely prevalent: 15.25 of them were polygamous.” Rajib Shah-https://www.counterview.net/2016/09/polygamy-in-india-down-in-45-yrs.html#:~:text=The%20latest%20figures%20of%20polygamy,5.8%20per%20cent%20in%201961.

    Polygamy-A survey carried out by the government in 1974 put the polygamy figure at 5.6% among Muslims, and 5.8% for upper-caste Hindus . 2006 surveyIt found that a polygamous Hindu was likely to have 1.77 wives, a polygamous Muslim 2.55, Christian 2.35, and Buddhist 3.41. “R
    Venkatsaramkrihsna https://scroll.in/article/669083/muslim-women-and-the-surprising-facts-about-polygamy-in-india

    2 “separate Islamic law code and sharia courts"- Confusion supported by Congress -BJP soft communalism and hard communalism based propaganda has created a fertile base of growing burgeoning distortions . Shariah law affects muslims and doesn’t non Muslims It does not cover crime theft murder treason apostasy. It apples to personal matters including to education inheritance custody issues and divorce . Even in these cases muslim often approach Indian court system But Indian court system where millions of cases have been pending for 20 yrs or so because of lack of the resources is not equipped to hear most of the cases . And- Family court based on religion operates in USA and Canada .

    3 Mulsim doesn’t cry foul if the Indian laws made by mostly Hindus or canonized by Hindus conflict with muslim ’s values . Why should Hindu get all worked up?
    4 How does Indian law prevent the Hindu female foetcicde ? dowry death ? dowry practice? or overt discriminatory practices in public sphere against non -Hindus and Dalit ? Does muslim go to court to confront Hindu practices ? Does muslim take out protests on the street the way Hindus did about Shabanu case? Did Muslim protests the Sati carried out in 1987 about 300 miles from Delhi ?


    5 Did Indian law prevent the Hindu puja gathering , political professions ,weddings done during Corona epidemic?

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @ivan

    As a non-muslim you cant legally have two or four wives like Muslims have, you cant legally divorce like Muslim men, who can just verbally express themselves and thats all what they need for divorce, the Indian law system for non-Muslims is based on the British system, and you cant consult hindu or buddhist religious authorities, when the court is making its decisions, yes maybe when its about the ownership of some temple, but not when its about personal matters. Im too tired to give a complete reply for your tirade, but Muslims have or had numerous LEGAL loopholes and exceptions that non-Muslims had not, of course those non-Muslims could try to illegally give their inheritance to first born son according to some local Hindu traditions, or marry multiple wives, but such practices were not accepted in the court of law or in the eyes of state.

    You know what? Muslims have already their little Muslim Indias in Pakistan and Bangladesh, if they are not happy to be equal citizens in India, they are free to go Pakistan, there courts dont even try to be equal, and non Muslims are openly repressed, there the laws are based in shariat, I am sure that Pakistan is happy to receive Muslims from India, its even a PR victory for them.

    Does Sharia even have a place outside of the Dar al Islam? Should it have? In my opinion it should not have as long as Muslims dont allow Christians to have Christian courts in Muslim countries, or the poor Hindu, Christian and Buddhist migrants to have their own laws and courts in Gulf countries. If you deny such reciprocity but still demand Muslims to have such (extra-?)legal and religious privileges in non-Muslim countries, then you are a hypocrite.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    You are again bullshitting . Muslims don not apply Shariah to non muslim as far as their religious practices and family traditions in marriage death birth inheritance custody are concerned , has never done historically . You can't expect Saudi or Gulf to enshrine Hindu laws in their system . They are nt part of their history .You expect it in Bnagdesh Malaysia Indoensia where Hindu st is part of the tradition . You are lying if you are trying to say that Hindu values on those areas are not honored or violated . I know it personally . Sure they wont allow sati or bride burning or dowry death .


    "You know what? Muslims have already their little Muslim Indias in Pakistan and Bangladesh, if they are not happy to be equal citizens in India, they are free to go Pakistan, there "The usual default argument - go back to Pakistan . May be you should know the history of the attrition and dishonoring of the spirit of the apportion by India in Kashmir Hyderbad and Junagarh . Dont bring that BS .

    If Indian laws are is uniquely applied , why Adani Modi are feee today ? Let alone thousands of those who destroyed Babri and caused Gujarta riot or riot in 1987 or Delhi riot in 2020 ? Indian secularism is not American or French secularism . Neither is the law but one expects the Indian government to apply that law without bias . Again don't BS.

    Indian BJP-RSS focus on personal law is distraction and intended not to help muslim but to galvanize the worst of the worst of Hindus in order to create communal hatred .
    The statistics of polygamy or divorce do not support the undue preoccupation of Hindus with the muslim affairs .
    India ’s recent abrogation of Kashmir’s status has shown that the laws are malleable selective and inconsistent . So is the freedom enjoyed by the criminal RSS brigand .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  68. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    As a non-muslim you cant legally have two or four wives like Muslims have, you cant legally divorce like Muslim men, who can just verbally express themselves and thats all what they need for divorce, the Indian law system for non-Muslims is based on the British system, and you cant consult hindu or buddhist religious authorities, when the court is making its decisions, yes maybe when its about the ownership of some temple, but not when its about personal matters. Im too tired to give a complete reply for your tirade, but Muslims have or had numerous LEGAL loopholes and exceptions that non-Muslims had not, of course those non-Muslims could try to illegally give their inheritance to first born son according to some local Hindu traditions, or marry multiple wives, but such practices were not accepted in the court of law or in the eyes of state.

    You know what? Muslims have already their little Muslim Indias in Pakistan and Bangladesh, if they are not happy to be equal citizens in India, they are free to go Pakistan, there courts dont even try to be equal, and non Muslims are openly repressed, there the laws are based in shariat, I am sure that Pakistan is happy to receive Muslims from India, its even a PR victory for them.

    Does Sharia even have a place outside of the Dar al Islam? Should it have? In my opinion it should not have as long as Muslims dont allow Christians to have Christian courts in Muslim countries, or the poor Hindu, Christian and Buddhist migrants to have their own laws and courts in Gulf countries. If you deny such reciprocity but still demand Muslims to have such (extra-?)legal and religious privileges in non-Muslim countries, then you are a hypocrite.

    Replies: @barr

    You are again bullshitting . Muslims don not apply Shariah to non muslim as far as their religious practices and family traditions in marriage death birth inheritance custody are concerned , has never done historically . You can’t expect Saudi or Gulf to enshrine Hindu laws in their system . They are nt part of their history .You expect it in Bnagdesh Malaysia Indoensia where Hindu st is part of the tradition . You are lying if you are trying to say that Hindu values on those areas are not honored or violated . I know it personally . Sure they wont allow sati or bride burning or dowry death .

    “You know what? Muslims have already their little Muslim Indias in Pakistan and Bangladesh, if they are not happy to be equal citizens in India, they are free to go Pakistan, there “The usual default argument – go back to Pakistan . May be you should know the history of the attrition and dishonoring of the spirit of the apportion by India in Kashmir Hyderbad and Junagarh . Dont bring that BS .

    If Indian laws are is uniquely applied , why Adani Modi are feee today ? Let alone thousands of those who destroyed Babri and caused Gujarta riot or riot in 1987 or Delhi riot in 2020 ? Indian secularism is not American or French secularism . Neither is the law but one expects the Indian government to apply that law without bias . Again don’t BS.

    Indian BJP-RSS focus on personal law is distraction and intended not to help muslim but to galvanize the worst of the worst of Hindus in order to create communal hatred .
    The statistics of polygamy or divorce do not support the undue preoccupation of Hindus with the muslim affairs .
    India ’s recent abrogation of Kashmir’s status has shown that the laws are malleable selective and inconsistent . So is the freedom enjoyed by the criminal RSS brigand .

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Always about babri or gujarat riots with you guys, or about srebrenica, such incidents are just drops of water compared to muslim crimes. I am not categorically against Muslim presence in India, or outside of Muslim countries, but it must be on equal basis, the situation in India for Muslims is much better than its for Hindus or Buddhists in Muslim countries, the only exception is Bali in Indonesia, even Malaysia has discriminatory bhumiputra laws against hindus and buddhists. How many deathly riots/pogroms there has been in Indonesia against mostly Buddhist Chinese minority? The constant attacks and vandalism against Buddhist temples in Bangladesh, but because you are a hypocritical Muslim who magically stops seeing and hearing when crimes against non muslims happen in muslim countries, or even worse, doesnt care, because such incidents dont serve the interest and cause of global ummah. India is heaven for its Muslims in comparison to what it is for Hindus and Buddhists in Bangladesh and Pakistan, there is one scientific proof for my claim. In both Pakistan and Bangladesh there is every year less and less non muslims, but did you know that when India got independent its population was less than 10% of muslims? Now there are something like 15% of them. In Pakistan there was 13% of Hindus when they got their independence and now less than 2%, in Bangladesh 22% and now less than 9%. So you know what? Piss off!

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @barr

  69. @Yevardian
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Good, why would you want to force such different people to live with each other anyway? Most Pakistanis and north Indians have more in common with each other than the Dravidian south, or especially the totally alien North-East, what a stupid artificial country.
    I mean, you can't even stand Croats and vice-versa, and you're practically identical.


    Anyway, you’re keen interest in this perhaps does betray that you are some sort of Indian or crypto-Indian after all. I thought this ridiculous at first, although perhaps maybe you’re just a Swedecuck legit obsessed with India after all …
     
    He's just got to be Indian, of all the countries to be obsessed with, why would anyone pick fucking India?

    Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Good, why would you want to force such different people to live with each other anyway? … what a stupid artificial country.

    Although your hostility towards India and Indians (of all castes, seemingly) is amusing and funny, it seems like you misinterpreted what I stated. Perhaps maybe I gave off the wrong impression that I’m deeply concerned about India’s territorial integrity and the wellbeing of all of its castes, ethnicities and nations. If they insist upon breakup and separation, there is no outside force capable or willing enough to stop them from doing that in the long term, even if it tried to, no matter how hard. In fact, perhaps one of the worst things in a breakup of India would be that Pakistan and Bangladesh would invade to grab more land and Islam expands in the Indian subcontinent (this is likely a key motivator of continued Indian unity despite all the issues among the castes?).

    It would be quite tragic, in humanitarian terms at least, for there to be a dissolution/breakup of India into different castes/ethnicities forming their own ethno-state/caste-state, especially if it occurs in a similar style like former-Yugoslavia with armed and violent separatism against the federal government and army, followed by all out-war and ethnic cleansing/forced population expulsions as common practice from every combatant party (referring to 1991-1995 time period, Kosovo is a different story). It’s definitely clear that such a scenario is at least more realistic than INDIA SUPERPOWER any year now, lol.

    I mean, you can’t even stand Croats and vice-versa, and you’re practically identical.

    Not really. Serbs and Croats are separated by different denominations/confessions of Christianity, Eastern Orthodoxy vs Roman Catholicism, so they’re actually more different than it would appear on initial appearances (similar applies regarding differences between Russians, Ukranians, Uniates, Poles etc).

    He’s just got to be Indian, of all the countries to be obsessed with, why would anyone pick fucking India?

    LOL.

    Idk. Ask him.

    He’s probably a Hindu Liberal given how much Sikh nationalism and the prospect of Sikh separatism worry and outrage him …

  70. @AltanBakshi
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    He is just some fake impostor, just like RoC in Taipei, with their two fake provinces. I myself affirm the unity of the great Chinese motherland and give my respects to the heroic CCP, which is leading force in the global anti-imperial struggle against America and its cronies. I really do mean it, the hope lies in the ChiComs.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    He is just some fake impostor

    AK should initiate a Strike Hard Campaign against this sort of behavior. One of the few legitimate reasons for banning IMHO.

    Impersonating an established commenter, in order to confuse discussion.

    • LOL: AltanBakshi
  71. @AltanBakshi
    @ivan


    This is about the only movement in the North that can stop the Gujarat bania combine from monetizing Indian agriculture for their benefit.
     
    .

    THIS! Unlike some here believe, the real jews of India are not brahmins but bania vaishyas, especially banias of Gujarat.

    Ironically brahmins of India have often supported socialist policies. Nehru was a brahmin, many socialist and communist leaders in India have brahmin origins, especially in heavily socialist Kerala and West Bengal.

    I have somewhat mixed opinion regarding Modi, theres nothing wrong in Hindu nationalism itself, and Muslims had undeserved privileges during the congress rule, and Indias economic system was too inefficient and closed, but what Modi is trying to achieve with his policies, does he have any clear vision of future India that he strives to achieve?

    Replies: @barr, @ivan

    The Brahmins of South India have gotten a bad rap. Theirs is the tribe of many of the Indian high-flyers in the West. I am not upto speed on the Brahmins of the North. As for the Muslims, I agree that they were courted by the Congress as a vote bank. That was when Congress lost its way in the 80s. The strange thing is that in those years I was one of countless Indians who supported the Congress over Punjab. Sad to say I had even thought that the Sikhs deserved the post Indira Gandhi massacres.

    But what happened as a direct though unintended result of that was Congress appeasement of the conservative Muslims, which it then promptly balanced by appeasing the RSS aligned Hindus under Advani. The rest as they say is history. From a mere two seats in the early 80s, the RSS/BJP have grown to a brute majority of more than 310 in the Indian Parliament. All this was the direct result of the Congress’ failure to address it’s role in the massacre of the Sikhs . We didn’t know it then, but the culture of impunity whereby whole villages could be massacres with feeble judicial cover-ups through toothless enquiries had by then set in.

    Muslim appeasement by the Congress could have been said to have reached its peak in the mid 80s , when we had AR Antulay as Chief Minister of Maharashtra, Rajiv Gandhi’s bungling of the Shah Bano case and for added colour his banning of Rushdie’s Satanic Verses.

    So yes there was Muslim appeasement for a short period in the 80s. There is no appeasement of Muslims today and this has been the case for some decades now.

  72. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    1 Polygamy-"facts suggest the the practice is down from 5.7 per cent of Muslim families in 1961 to 2.55 per cent in 2006.
    The latest figures of polygamy, released by the third National Family Health Survey (NFHS), carried out in 2006, also show that two per cent women reported that their husbands had more than one wife. It found that polygamy was prevalent among 1.77 per cent Hindus, down from 5.8 per cent in 1961.
    The 1961 figures – based on Census of India data – also show that among tribals it was then widely prevalent: 15.25 of them were polygamous.” Rajib Shah-https://www.counterview.net/2016/09/polygamy-in-india-down-in-45-yrs.html#:~:text=The%20latest%20figures%20of%20polygamy,5.8%20per%20cent%20in%201961.

    Polygamy-A survey carried out by the government in 1974 put the polygamy figure at 5.6% among Muslims, and 5.8% for upper-caste Hindus . 2006 surveyIt found that a polygamous Hindu was likely to have 1.77 wives, a polygamous Muslim 2.55, Christian 2.35, and Buddhist 3.41. “R
    Venkatsaramkrihsna https://scroll.in/article/669083/muslim-women-and-the-surprising-facts-about-polygamy-in-india

    2 “separate Islamic law code and sharia courts"- Confusion supported by Congress -BJP soft communalism and hard communalism based propaganda has created a fertile base of growing burgeoning distortions . Shariah law affects muslims and doesn’t non Muslims It does not cover crime theft murder treason apostasy. It apples to personal matters including to education inheritance custody issues and divorce . Even in these cases muslim often approach Indian court system But Indian court system where millions of cases have been pending for 20 yrs or so because of lack of the resources is not equipped to hear most of the cases . And- Family court based on religion operates in USA and Canada .

    3 Mulsim doesn’t cry foul if the Indian laws made by mostly Hindus or canonized by Hindus conflict with muslim ’s values . Why should Hindu get all worked up?
    4 How does Indian law prevent the Hindu female foetcicde ? dowry death ? dowry practice? or overt discriminatory practices in public sphere against non -Hindus and Dalit ? Does muslim go to court to confront Hindu practices ? Does muslim take out protests on the street the way Hindus did about Shabanu case? Did Muslim protests the Sati carried out in 1987 about 300 miles from Delhi ?


    5 Did Indian law prevent the Hindu puja gathering , political professions ,weddings done during Corona epidemic?

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @ivan

    Polygamy is frowned on by people in the middle and upper classes in India no matter what their religion. Of course those who have money have mistresses whatever their religion says. With the lower classes polygamy and even polyandry are somewhat tolerated. Again it doesn’t matter which religion one follows. Indians love sex like all the others and would like nothing more than a religious cover for it, but that really isn’t strictly necessary.

  73. @g2k
    @g2k


    closed borders forever
     
    N.B, delete previous comment,it timed out for an edit.

    I’m sure if you wanted to emigrate to North Korea it would be possible. In all seriousness, on what planet would that lead to anything other than total immiseration? Ensure the peasants don't leave their parish. Yarvin said something along those lines in an article last year and people seem to have been regurgitating it in these circles ever since, and it's just lunatic. Would prefer to side with the critical theory and pronouns crowd than that.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    I’m sure if you wanted to emigrate to North Korea it would be possible.

    Now that’s an original argument. I have never heard it from liberals. Jk, of course they use it all the time.

    In all seriousness

    In all seriousness, international travel needs to be restricted if you are to restrict third world immigration. You are not a serious person if you don’t think it’s necessary. Also, the “peasants” need to spend their lives where they were born. No way around that.

    Would prefer to side with the critical theory and pronouns crowd

    Good to know.

  74. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    THIS! Unlike some here believe, the real jews of India are not brahmins but bania vaishyas, especially banias of Gujarat.
     
    It seems to be a combination of the two, When will the Brahmin-Bania hegemony end?

    The Sensex comprises the 30 largest traded companies of India.

    ACC is run by a Brahmin (Sumit Banerjee), Bhel is run by a Brahmin (Ravi Kumar Krishna Swamy), Bharti Airtel is run by a Bania (Sunil Mittal), Grasim and Hindalco are run by a Bania (Kumar Mangalam Birla).

    HDFC is run by a Bania (Deepak Parekh), Hindustan Unilever is run by a Brahmin (Nitin Paranjpe), ICICI Bank is headed by a Brahmin (K.V. Kamath). Jaiprakash Associates is run by a Brahmin (Yogesh Gaur), L&T is run by a Brahmin (A.M. Naik), NTPC is run by a Brahmin (R.S. Sharma), ONGC is run by a Brahmin (also called R.S. Sharma). Reliance group firms are run by Banias (Mukesh and Anil Ambani), State Bank of India is run by a Brahmin (O.P. Bhatt), Sterlite Industries is run by a Bania (Anil Agarwal), Sun Pharma is run by a Bania (Dilip Shanghvi) and Tata Steel is run by a Brahmin (B. Muthuraman).

    Punjab National Bank is run by a Brahmin (K.C. Chakrabarty), Bank of Baroda is run by a Brahmin (M.D. Mallya) and Canara Bank is run by a Bania (A.C. Mahajan).

    Of India’s software companies, Infosys is run by a Brahmin (Kris Gopalakrishnan now and Narayana Murthy and Nandan Nilekani before him). TCS is run by a Brahmin (Subramanian Ramadorai). Wipro is owned by a Khoja (Azim Premji). Khojas are Shia of the Sevener sect, converted from the Luhana trading community (same caste as L.K. Advani and M.A. Jinnah).

    India’s two largest airlines are Kingfisher, owned by a Brahmin (Vijay Mallya) and Jet, owned by a Bania (Naresh Goyal).

    Of India’s mobile phone firms, Reliance Communications (Ambani), Airtel (Mittal), Vodafone Essar (Ruia), Idea (Birla), Spice (Modi) are owned by Banias. BSNL is run by a Bania (Kuldeep Goyal) and Tata’s TTML is run by a Brahmin (K.A. Chaukar).


    Cricket in India is run by a Bania (Lalit Modi) and before him it was run by another Bania (Jagmohan Dalmiya).

    Media in India is almost entirely controlled by Banias and Jains. Of the two largest English newspapers, TheTimes of India is owned by Jains and the Hindustan Times is owned by Banias (Birla). The third largest English paper, TheHindu, is owned by Brahmins (Kasturi Iyengar family). The Indian Express is owned by Banias (Goenka). Zee TV is owned by a Bania (Subhash Chandra Goel). Of the two largest Hindi newspapers, Dainik Jagran is owned by Banias (Gupta), and Dainik Bhaskar is owned by Banias (Agarwal). The Agarwals also own Gujarati daily Divya Bhaskar. The largest Gujarati newspaper Gujarat Samachar is owned by Jains (Shah). The largest Marathi paper Lokmat is owned by Jains (Darda). Rajasthan Patrika is owned by Jains (Kothari). Navbharat Times is owned by Jains and Hindustan owned by Banias (Birla). Amar Ujala is owned by Banias (Maheshwari).


    Of India’s steel companies Essar is owned by Banias (Ruia), ArcelorMittal is owned by a Bania (Laxmi Mittal), Ispat is owned by Banias (Mittals), Jindal Steel is owned by Banias, Bhushan Steel is owned by Banias (Singhal), VISA Steel is owned by Banias (Agarwal). State-owned SAIL is run by a Bania (S.K. Roongta) and Lloyd Steel is owned by Banias (Gupta).

    Of India’s cement companies, Ambuja is owned by Banias (Neotia and Sekhsaria), Dalmia Cements is owned by Banias, Ultratech and Vikram Cement are owned by Banias (Birla) and JK Cement is owned by Banias (Singhania).

    Hindustan Motors is owned by Banias (Birla) and Bajaj Auto is owned by Banias.

    Old economy, new economy: All economy in India is owned and run by two castes.
     

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @catchastar

    Bhel is run by a Brahmin (Ravi Kumar Krishna Swamy),

    BHEL is a govt. company run by bureaucrats.

    NTPC is run by a Brahmin (R.S. Sharma), ONGC is run by a Brahmin (also called R.S. Sharma). State Bank of India is run by a Brahmin (O.P. Bhatt), Tata Steel is run by a Brahmin (B. Muthuraman).

    NTPC, ONGC, SBI are all govt. enterprises run by bureaucrats. Tata Steel is owned/controlled by the Tatas, a wealthy Parsi industrialist family.

    Punjab National Bank is run by a Brahmin (K.C. Chakrabarty), Bank of Baroda is run by a Brahmin (M.D. Mallya) and Canara Bank is run by a Bania (A.C. Mahajan).

    All govt. owned public sector banks run by career bureaucrats.

    BSNL is run by a Bania (Kuldeep Goyal) and Tata’s TTML is run by a Brahmin (K.A. Chaukar).

    BSNL is a govt. owned telecom company run by bureaucrats. TTML and all Tata companies mentioned in this article are owned/controlled by the Tatas – a Parsi family group.

    Cricket in India is run by a Bania (Lalit Modi) and before him it was run by another Bania (Jagmohan Dalmiya).

    Cricket is controlled by the Cricket Board, a semi-govt. managed/appointed board.

    Media in India is almost entirely controlled by Banias and Jains.

    Largely but not entirely. NDTV is owned by Prannoy Roy and Republic TV by Arnab Goswami, two of the largest, most influential tv channels. Sun TV and a myriad regional channels and papers owned by regional owners.

    State-owned SAIL is run by a Bania (S.K. Roongta)

    Owned by govt. of india and run by bureaucrats.

    Hindustan Motors is owned by Banias (Birla)

    HM is a dead company.

    All companies apart from the ones I have listed above, are public limited companies which are run professionally. What of it? Now you are going to target successful enterpreneurs who take risks and build a legacy? Then target the Jewish and Anglo owners of MNC’s also. And target the Arab, Lebanese, Dutch, German and American owners of large listed companies also. Target Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos for running CIA funded front companies. Bezos owns Wapo, and NYT has Jewish owners. The list is endless. We get it. This website and many of its authors are anti-India.

    • Troll: AltanBakshi
  75. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    You are again bullshitting . Muslims don not apply Shariah to non muslim as far as their religious practices and family traditions in marriage death birth inheritance custody are concerned , has never done historically . You can't expect Saudi or Gulf to enshrine Hindu laws in their system . They are nt part of their history .You expect it in Bnagdesh Malaysia Indoensia where Hindu st is part of the tradition . You are lying if you are trying to say that Hindu values on those areas are not honored or violated . I know it personally . Sure they wont allow sati or bride burning or dowry death .


    "You know what? Muslims have already their little Muslim Indias in Pakistan and Bangladesh, if they are not happy to be equal citizens in India, they are free to go Pakistan, there "The usual default argument - go back to Pakistan . May be you should know the history of the attrition and dishonoring of the spirit of the apportion by India in Kashmir Hyderbad and Junagarh . Dont bring that BS .

    If Indian laws are is uniquely applied , why Adani Modi are feee today ? Let alone thousands of those who destroyed Babri and caused Gujarta riot or riot in 1987 or Delhi riot in 2020 ? Indian secularism is not American or French secularism . Neither is the law but one expects the Indian government to apply that law without bias . Again don't BS.

    Indian BJP-RSS focus on personal law is distraction and intended not to help muslim but to galvanize the worst of the worst of Hindus in order to create communal hatred .
    The statistics of polygamy or divorce do not support the undue preoccupation of Hindus with the muslim affairs .
    India ’s recent abrogation of Kashmir’s status has shown that the laws are malleable selective and inconsistent . So is the freedom enjoyed by the criminal RSS brigand .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Always about babri or gujarat riots with you guys, or about srebrenica, such incidents are just drops of water compared to muslim crimes. I am not categorically against Muslim presence in India, or outside of Muslim countries, but it must be on equal basis, the situation in India for Muslims is much better than its for Hindus or Buddhists in Muslim countries, the only exception is Bali in Indonesia, even Malaysia has discriminatory bhumiputra laws against hindus and buddhists. How many deathly riots/pogroms there has been in Indonesia against mostly Buddhist Chinese minority? The constant attacks and vandalism against Buddhist temples in Bangladesh, but because you are a hypocritical Muslim who magically stops seeing and hearing when crimes against non muslims happen in muslim countries, or even worse, doesnt care, because such incidents dont serve the interest and cause of global ummah. India is heaven for its Muslims in comparison to what it is for Hindus and Buddhists in Bangladesh and Pakistan, there is one scientific proof for my claim. In both Pakistan and Bangladesh there is every year less and less non muslims, but did you know that when India got independent its population was less than 10% of muslims? Now there are something like 15% of them. In Pakistan there was 13% of Hindus when they got their independence and now less than 2%, in Bangladesh 22% and now less than 9%. So you know what? Piss off!

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    Its so hypocritical of you muslims to cry about babri masjid, if buddhists or hindus would cry about their holy places, temples and sanctuaries destroyed by muslims, our crying would never stop, we would be drowned in our own tears

    Just in 2012 muslims destroyed 12 buddhist temples in Bangladesh, and there is every year such incidents, though normally on smaller scale.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Ramu_violence


    The mobs destroyed 12 Buddhist temples and monasteries and 50 houses in reaction to a tagging of an image depicting the desecration of a Quran on the timeline of a fake Facebook account under a Buddhist male name.[3][4] The actual posting of the photo was not done by the Buddhist who was falsely slandered.[5] The Buddhist was innocent of the accusation.[6] The violence later spread to Ukhia Upazila in Cox's Bazar District[7] and Patiya Upazila in Chittagong District where Buddhist monasteries and Hindu temples were targeted for attacks.
     
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Bangladesh_anti-Hindu_violence

    More than 50 hindu temples were destroyed by muslims in Bangladesh in 2013.

    What would you muslims do when one of your holy places, just ONE, is destroyed by non muslims?

    There are literally thousands of examples of muslim destruction and desecration of our holy placesz for over millenia, from Iran to Malaysia. Do muslims of India live in a constant fear, that one day some hindu religious fanatics storm their mosque, burn it down, beat or kill men and rape women? No! There have been such cases, but they are statistically exceedingly rare and abnormal.

    Did you know that in Buddhism circumcision is a heinous crime against nature? But no buddhist country prohibits its muslims their "right" to mutilate their children. Same thing with your animal sacrifices. So our relationship is very very one sided.

    Muslims are not our friends, but they are the enemy of our enemy, an enemy which is greater threat for both of us, than we are to each other, so at least we should have a temporary truce, until the true and common enemy of mankind is crushed....

    , @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Another misinformed is joining the bandwagaon of the chariot of Advani barreling down Hindu cowbelt . There is total destruction of Muslimin Rakhine state and a poltical mind of RSS variety comes and tells that buddhist shrines have been attacked hiding behind smoke of soundbites .

    A misguided and educated by RSS 's ideloolgy and subscribes to the views that indonesian revolt and subsequent massacre of communists in 60 s fully orchestrated by CIA to thawrt false alarm of communism was Islamic in origin and shape or was product of muslim communalism.

    He like other half educated thinks muslim are privileged class because they still have personal laws .
    Jewish personal and famiky court still operate in USA and Canada listening and advising on issues of divorce custody and inheritance .

    These creatures of propaganda of RSS BJP think that killing muslim, creating hatred , erecting barriers to safety ,securuty ,job,education,and blaming them for what happened centuries ago and for partition are the small price for allwing them to live in India .

    They think that thise lies cant be challenged and corrected because majority Indians say so and majority Indians think so. The RSS mafia thinks that the best way to capture vote for BJP is to tell the Hindus that muslims would swamp India again because they have personal laws in India's democracy and is the laws are tolerated in Indian secularism .

    Indian democracy is the best horse trading shit show on earth now. Indian secularisn since 1987 has been what RSS thinks secularism should be based on -- destroy masjid, ,unilaterly change Kashmir status, lie about seizing Jammu Kashmir , suppress facts about expelking muskim from Jammu, seize Hyderabad and Junagarh and kill the muslims if they protest against Citzenship.

    When reminded and challenged , they just stick to the mantra-- muslims are killing muslims everywhere and muslims killled millions Hindus in times of Pathan and Mughal rule.

    These misguided dont know that their own history about killing Biddhist ,Jains and indigenous and destroying the non - Hindu temples and even gloating and glorifying the murder and massacre in their own religiius books .

    Reaching and digging in their back passgae and keister ,the RSS produce facts. One of the facts that they churn out is that Hindus have declined in Pakistan . But their own data as documented by India Today exposes the lies. But lying for RSS BJP thug is par the course. That lies then enter into their history books which would be altered again in future by the future descendents of and placeholders of fanatic RSS BJP organization if situation demands .

    In that rule of laws, those Hindus who organized and managed the burning of the Godhra train incident have still not been punished . Not those RSS cadre who then spread the rumors of muslim doing it. and later influenced the judiciary are still free . They then with help of Modi and his henchmen started killing muslims in Gujrat. They are still free.

    Whats their answers when polinted out these masscares and many others before and after ?The answer that muslim rulers killed us 500 yrs ago or the answer is muslims are always complining .

    When asked about Jammu massacre or Hyderabad killing in 1947-1948, these corrupted minds tell us - oh! thats so long ago, conveniently forgetting that they still remeber what did not happen 500 yrs ago (the unexamined lies of killing and religiously oriented violnce against Hindu subjects or temples ) .
    These lies are the building block of the Hindu's new identuty mandated by RSS .

    Replies: @catchastar, @catchastar, @AltanBakshi

  76. India is a British colonial invention, I’m amazed otherwise anti-British people talk as if that artificial imperialist state and its British imperial system actually has any meaning.

    I find it amusing how Indians on one level talk about how evil the imperialist British were, yet seem psychologically invested in the state they created and unwittingly prop up its legacy. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • LOL: Kent Nationalist
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Europe Europa

    Before the Mongol conquest, China was divided into four states, so it is thanks to the Mongols (and Manchus) that China got unified and has its modern borders, still the Chinese revolted against their Mongolian overlords, and for a century pursued aggressively anti-Mongol policies. Is a modern China then just a Mongol or a Manchu political invention? At least Chinas borders are.

    Still both India and China have had periods of unity, before being conquered by foreigners.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Maurya_Empire%2C_c.250_BCE_2.png

    Like the Maurya Empire 2300 years ago, or Mughals or Marathas, who also were preeminent powers in the subcontinent before the Brits.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Mughal_Empire%2C_1707.png

    There are other examples of hegemonic powers in Indias history, like the Kushan empire, Guptas, Delhi Sultanate and so on.

    But I believe that without British rule there probably would be more countries in Indian subcontinent, but who knows, maybe some Sikh, Marathi or Afghani leader could have carved a large empire without the British interference in the 19th century?

    Replies: @Yevardian

    , @Ludwig
    @Europe Europa


    I find it amusing how Indians on one level talk about how evil the imperialist British were, yet seem psychologically invested in the state they created and unwittingly prop up its legacy. Talk about cognitive dissonance.
     
    There is no cognitive dissonance between the following two statements:

    1. India as a single federally administered country made up of multiple erstwhile kingdoms/city states, unions was a result of continuous stream of history from various empires that sought to unite the subcontinent from the Mauryas, the Moghuls and ending with the British who created/upgraded an infrastructure to administer these vast lands as a single entity.

    2. The British did not create an Indian administrative state as a favor to the inhabitants of India but as a means to more efficiently extract raw resources and establish markets for finished products to benefit the motherland.

    The British motive was never hidden - as for example now in politically correct times when “bringing democracy” “human rights” and the like is used to justify Western invasions and regime changes, to what was openly called colonialism before. Colonies were expected to be a source of income to the mother countries, much like slaves were meant to benefit the master with any benefits the colonies/slaves got out of it as a unintended externality (or to keep them just happy/satiated enough not to violently rise up).

    So while there were undoubtedly benefits that the British passed on to the successor states, these benefits were a by product of the underlying rational for colonialism which was focused solely on profits for the motherland. For example, the extensive railway system the British developed in India was a means to get raw resources to ports as well as armies to where they needed to be and not based on the needs of the general population. (So Independent India had to create new lines to serve the transport needs of people vs raw resources).

    Perhaps the most damning statistic is this: in pre-independence India, under British rule over 60 million deaths are attributed due to famines alone. The last was the Bengal famine of 1943 in which anywhere from 2-4 million people starved to death on streets in what most historians agree was wholly preventable with various actors from Churchill - who wanted rations to be diverted to the war effort and could care less about native deaths - to local administration officials under British supervision to blame for failing to divert existing resources.

    Since independence, with a much higher growing population, there has not been a single major famine: India became self sufficient in food production and delivery. So it’s not the case of “Well India was always a diseased ridden hell hole, famines are natural and expected”: the difference between British India famines and Independent India famines are real and wholly ascribable to the fact that the Government in Delhi and in the states are accountable to the Indian people where as the Government of British India was not.

    , @catchastar
    @Europe Europa

    Oh Europe Europa, dear, your very name signals a "European" i.e. a pan identity, when for centuries all the countries of that region were constantly at loggerheads, many until not too long ago. Bloody conflict between neighbors and friends. Italy was united fairly recently as history goes, as was Germany. Pan-Europe was not a thing until the artificial construct called the European Union. Even to this day, the northern Europeans look down upon the southern Europeans as not quite white, upon Polish as stupid, upon the Slavic countries as slaves, all the while trying to appropriate their culture and history. So your comment reeks of hypocrisy and, cognitive dissonance.

    The subcontinent of India has been strongly associated with Vedas and Hindus. Its borders fluctuated over time. But there was a cultural continuum that has existed since ancient times.

    Nice try though.

  77. @Europe Europa
    India is a British colonial invention, I'm amazed otherwise anti-British people talk as if that artificial imperialist state and its British imperial system actually has any meaning.

    I find it amusing how Indians on one level talk about how evil the imperialist British were, yet seem psychologically invested in the state they created and unwittingly prop up its legacy. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Ludwig, @catchastar

    Before the Mongol conquest, China was divided into four states, so it is thanks to the Mongols (and Manchus) that China got unified and has its modern borders, still the Chinese revolted against their Mongolian overlords, and for a century pursued aggressively anti-Mongol policies. Is a modern China then just a Mongol or a Manchu political invention? At least Chinas borders are.

    Still both India and China have had periods of unity, before being conquered by foreigners.

    Like the Maurya Empire 2300 years ago, or Mughals or Marathas, who also were preeminent powers in the subcontinent before the Brits.

    There are other examples of hegemonic powers in Indias history, like the Kushan empire, Guptas, Delhi Sultanate and so on.

    But I believe that without British rule there probably would be more countries in Indian subcontinent, but who knows, maybe some Sikh, Marathi or Afghani leader could have carved a large empire without the British interference in the 19th century?

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @AltanBakshi

    China has spent far more time as a united kingdom (more often than not) than the Indian subcontinent, not to mention greater cultural and ethno-linguistic unity. All of those pan-Indian Empires were relatively ephemeral as well.

    Replies: @catchastar, @showmethereal, @AltanBakshi

  78. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Always about babri or gujarat riots with you guys, or about srebrenica, such incidents are just drops of water compared to muslim crimes. I am not categorically against Muslim presence in India, or outside of Muslim countries, but it must be on equal basis, the situation in India for Muslims is much better than its for Hindus or Buddhists in Muslim countries, the only exception is Bali in Indonesia, even Malaysia has discriminatory bhumiputra laws against hindus and buddhists. How many deathly riots/pogroms there has been in Indonesia against mostly Buddhist Chinese minority? The constant attacks and vandalism against Buddhist temples in Bangladesh, but because you are a hypocritical Muslim who magically stops seeing and hearing when crimes against non muslims happen in muslim countries, or even worse, doesnt care, because such incidents dont serve the interest and cause of global ummah. India is heaven for its Muslims in comparison to what it is for Hindus and Buddhists in Bangladesh and Pakistan, there is one scientific proof for my claim. In both Pakistan and Bangladesh there is every year less and less non muslims, but did you know that when India got independent its population was less than 10% of muslims? Now there are something like 15% of them. In Pakistan there was 13% of Hindus when they got their independence and now less than 2%, in Bangladesh 22% and now less than 9%. So you know what? Piss off!

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @barr

    Its so hypocritical of you muslims to cry about babri masjid, if buddhists or hindus would cry about their holy places, temples and sanctuaries destroyed by muslims, our crying would never stop, we would be drowned in our own tears

    Just in 2012 muslims destroyed 12 buddhist temples in Bangladesh, and there is every year such incidents, though normally on smaller scale.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Ramu_violence

    The mobs destroyed 12 Buddhist temples and monasteries and 50 houses in reaction to a tagging of an image depicting the desecration of a Quran on the timeline of a fake Facebook account under a Buddhist male name.[3][4] The actual posting of the photo was not done by the Buddhist who was falsely slandered.[5] The Buddhist was innocent of the accusation.[6] The violence later spread to Ukhia Upazila in Cox’s Bazar District[7] and Patiya Upazila in Chittagong District where Buddhist monasteries and Hindu temples were targeted for attacks.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Bangladesh_anti-Hindu_violence

    More than 50 hindu temples were destroyed by muslims in Bangladesh in 2013.

    What would you muslims do when one of your holy places, just ONE, is destroyed by non muslims?

    There are literally thousands of examples of muslim destruction and desecration of our holy placesz for over millenia, from Iran to Malaysia. Do muslims of India live in a constant fear, that one day some hindu religious fanatics storm their mosque, burn it down, beat or kill men and rape women? No! There have been such cases, but they are statistically exceedingly rare and abnormal.

    Did you know that in Buddhism circumcision is a heinous crime against nature? But no buddhist country prohibits its muslims their “right” to mutilate their children. Same thing with your animal sacrifices. So our relationship is very very one sided.

    Muslims are not our friends, but they are the enemy of our enemy, an enemy which is greater threat for both of us, than we are to each other, so at least we should have a temporary truce, until the true and common enemy of mankind is crushed….

  79. @Europe Europa
    India is a British colonial invention, I'm amazed otherwise anti-British people talk as if that artificial imperialist state and its British imperial system actually has any meaning.

    I find it amusing how Indians on one level talk about how evil the imperialist British were, yet seem psychologically invested in the state they created and unwittingly prop up its legacy. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Ludwig, @catchastar

    I find it amusing how Indians on one level talk about how evil the imperialist British were, yet seem psychologically invested in the state they created and unwittingly prop up its legacy. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

    There is no cognitive dissonance between the following two statements:

    1. India as a single federally administered country made up of multiple erstwhile kingdoms/city states, unions was a result of continuous stream of history from various empires that sought to unite the subcontinent from the Mauryas, the Moghuls and ending with the British who created/upgraded an infrastructure to administer these vast lands as a single entity.

    2. The British did not create an Indian administrative state as a favor to the inhabitants of India but as a means to more efficiently extract raw resources and establish markets for finished products to benefit the motherland.

    The British motive was never hidden – as for example now in politically correct times when “bringing democracy” “human rights” and the like is used to justify Western invasions and regime changes, to what was openly called colonialism before. Colonies were expected to be a source of income to the mother countries, much like slaves were meant to benefit the master with any benefits the colonies/slaves got out of it as a unintended externality (or to keep them just happy/satiated enough not to violently rise up).

    So while there were undoubtedly benefits that the British passed on to the successor states, these benefits were a by product of the underlying rational for colonialism which was focused solely on profits for the motherland. For example, the extensive railway system the British developed in India was a means to get raw resources to ports as well as armies to where they needed to be and not based on the needs of the general population. (So Independent India had to create new lines to serve the transport needs of people vs raw resources).

    Perhaps the most damning statistic is this: in pre-independence India, under British rule over 60 million deaths are attributed due to famines alone. The last was the Bengal famine of 1943 in which anywhere from 2-4 million people starved to death on streets in what most historians agree was wholly preventable with various actors from Churchill – who wanted rations to be diverted to the war effort and could care less about native deaths – to local administration officials under British supervision to blame for failing to divert existing resources.

    Since independence, with a much higher growing population, there has not been a single major famine: India became self sufficient in food production and delivery. So it’s not the case of “Well India was always a diseased ridden hell hole, famines are natural and expected”: the difference between British India famines and Independent India famines are real and wholly ascribable to the fact that the Government in Delhi and in the states are accountable to the Indian people where as the Government of British India was not.

    • Thanks: AltanBakshi
  80. @Europe Europa
    India is a British colonial invention, I'm amazed otherwise anti-British people talk as if that artificial imperialist state and its British imperial system actually has any meaning.

    I find it amusing how Indians on one level talk about how evil the imperialist British were, yet seem psychologically invested in the state they created and unwittingly prop up its legacy. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Ludwig, @catchastar

    Oh Europe Europa, dear, your very name signals a “European” i.e. a pan identity, when for centuries all the countries of that region were constantly at loggerheads, many until not too long ago. Bloody conflict between neighbors and friends. Italy was united fairly recently as history goes, as was Germany. Pan-Europe was not a thing until the artificial construct called the European Union. Even to this day, the northern Europeans look down upon the southern Europeans as not quite white, upon Polish as stupid, upon the Slavic countries as slaves, all the while trying to appropriate their culture and history. So your comment reeks of hypocrisy and, cognitive dissonance.

    The subcontinent of India has been strongly associated with Vedas and Hindus. Its borders fluctuated over time. But there was a cultural continuum that has existed since ancient times.

    Nice try though.

  81. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Always about babri or gujarat riots with you guys, or about srebrenica, such incidents are just drops of water compared to muslim crimes. I am not categorically against Muslim presence in India, or outside of Muslim countries, but it must be on equal basis, the situation in India for Muslims is much better than its for Hindus or Buddhists in Muslim countries, the only exception is Bali in Indonesia, even Malaysia has discriminatory bhumiputra laws against hindus and buddhists. How many deathly riots/pogroms there has been in Indonesia against mostly Buddhist Chinese minority? The constant attacks and vandalism against Buddhist temples in Bangladesh, but because you are a hypocritical Muslim who magically stops seeing and hearing when crimes against non muslims happen in muslim countries, or even worse, doesnt care, because such incidents dont serve the interest and cause of global ummah. India is heaven for its Muslims in comparison to what it is for Hindus and Buddhists in Bangladesh and Pakistan, there is one scientific proof for my claim. In both Pakistan and Bangladesh there is every year less and less non muslims, but did you know that when India got independent its population was less than 10% of muslims? Now there are something like 15% of them. In Pakistan there was 13% of Hindus when they got their independence and now less than 2%, in Bangladesh 22% and now less than 9%. So you know what? Piss off!

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @barr

    Another misinformed is joining the bandwagaon of the chariot of Advani barreling down Hindu cowbelt . There is total destruction of Muslimin Rakhine state and a poltical mind of RSS variety comes and tells that buddhist shrines have been attacked hiding behind smoke of soundbites .

    A misguided and educated by RSS ‘s ideloolgy and subscribes to the views that indonesian revolt and subsequent massacre of communists in 60 s fully orchestrated by CIA to thawrt false alarm of communism was Islamic in origin and shape or was product of muslim communalism.

    He like other half educated thinks muslim are privileged class because they still have personal laws .
    Jewish personal and famiky court still operate in USA and Canada listening and advising on issues of divorce custody and inheritance .

    These creatures of propaganda of RSS BJP think that killing muslim, creating hatred , erecting barriers to safety ,securuty ,job,education,and blaming them for what happened centuries ago and for partition are the small price for allwing them to live in India .

    They think that thise lies cant be challenged and corrected because majority Indians say so and majority Indians think so. The RSS mafia thinks that the best way to capture vote for BJP is to tell the Hindus that muslims would swamp India again because they have personal laws in India’s democracy and is the laws are tolerated in Indian secularism .

    Indian democracy is the best horse trading shit show on earth now. Indian secularisn since 1987 has been what RSS thinks secularism should be based on — destroy masjid, ,unilaterly change Kashmir status, lie about seizing Jammu Kashmir , suppress facts about expelking muskim from Jammu, seize Hyderabad and Junagarh and kill the muslims if they protest against Citzenship.

    When reminded and challenged , they just stick to the mantra– muslims are killing muslims everywhere and muslims killled millions Hindus in times of Pathan and Mughal rule.

    These misguided dont know that their own history about killing Biddhist ,Jains and indigenous and destroying the non – Hindu temples and even gloating and glorifying the murder and massacre in their own religiius books .

    Reaching and digging in their back passgae and keister ,the RSS produce facts. One of the facts that they churn out is that Hindus have declined in Pakistan . But their own data as documented by India Today exposes the lies. But lying for RSS BJP thug is par the course. That lies then enter into their history books which would be altered again in future by the future descendents of and placeholders of fanatic RSS BJP organization if situation demands .

    In that rule of laws, those Hindus who organized and managed the burning of the Godhra train incident have still not been punished . Not those RSS cadre who then spread the rumors of muslim doing it. and later influenced the judiciary are still free . They then with help of Modi and his henchmen started killing muslims in Gujrat. They are still free.

    Whats their answers when polinted out these masscares and many others before and after ?The answer that muslim rulers killed us 500 yrs ago or the answer is muslims are always complining .

    When asked about Jammu massacre or Hyderabad killing in 1947-1948, these corrupted minds tell us – oh! thats so long ago, conveniently forgetting that they still remeber what did not happen 500 yrs ago (the unexamined lies of killing and religiously oriented violnce against Hindu subjects or temples ) .
    These lies are the building block of the Hindu’s new identuty mandated by RSS .

    • Thanks: showmethereal
    • Replies: @catchastar
    @barr

    A Pakistani troll. Now things become clearer. The Godhra incident started with a Muslim mob attacking a train with Hindu pilgrims. No culpability was brought to bear either. In J&K there was lynching rape and murder and an ultimate exodus of the Hindu Kashmiris, their homes and belongings either stolen or sold for a song. No reparations for becoming refugees in their own land. Illegal Muslim Bangladeshis pouring into India demanding rights and citizenship. Why? They got their own wretched country didn't they? The subcontinent was partitioned on the basis of religions for MUSLIMS! Then why don't they stay in the land they clamored for? They live in secular India, demanding more than equality...they want supremacy over pagan Hindus. The so-called Babri masjid destruction...it was an unused mosque that had been built on top of a temple in a spot holy to the Hindus. But the Muslims demanded accommodation even in the Hindu holy lands, which had no precedence. Can Hindus demand a Hindu temple in Mecca? The Taliban destroyed ancient Bamiyan buddhas. Were there repercussions?

    The Muslims of India refused a common civil code with their own countrymen whom they consider less than. The hypocrisy is sickening. Liberality for thee but not for me.

    Any Muslim who feels uncomfortable in India should move to Pakistan or Bangladesh, countries that were precisely created for the purpose of accommodating the subcontinent's Muslims, as per their own demand.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @barr

    , @catchastar
    @barr


    These misguided dont know that their own history about killing Biddhist ,Jains and indigenous and destroying the non – Hindu temples and even gloating and glorifying the murder and massacre in their own religiius books .
     
    Yes, and everyone knows the history of Muslims, where ever they go, there is strife and subjugation. A medieval, stone age political cult masquerading as a religion. PEACE BE UPON YOU.

    Replies: @barr

    , @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Fool, Im not even Indian, and I have never ever read any RSS propaganda.

    You cant even compare sins of Muslims with the people of Dharmic religions, Muslim violence is both historical and contemporary phenomena. Just one hundred years ago they forcefully converted Nuristanis in Afghanistan, last followers of original Vedic religion, just few years ago they tried repeatedly huge terrorist attacks in our most holy place.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_Gaya_bombings

    Thankfully Buddhas power protected us, and no one died.

    Everytime when Muslim cries about violence, its nothing compared to what you have done to us, or what Arabs did your ancestors, if you are a Pakistani. The fate that you suffered is worse than death.

    Both Junagarh and Hyderabad had Hindu supermajority, why they should have gone to Pakistan?

    Replies: @Barr

  82. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Another misinformed is joining the bandwagaon of the chariot of Advani barreling down Hindu cowbelt . There is total destruction of Muslimin Rakhine state and a poltical mind of RSS variety comes and tells that buddhist shrines have been attacked hiding behind smoke of soundbites .

    A misguided and educated by RSS 's ideloolgy and subscribes to the views that indonesian revolt and subsequent massacre of communists in 60 s fully orchestrated by CIA to thawrt false alarm of communism was Islamic in origin and shape or was product of muslim communalism.

    He like other half educated thinks muslim are privileged class because they still have personal laws .
    Jewish personal and famiky court still operate in USA and Canada listening and advising on issues of divorce custody and inheritance .

    These creatures of propaganda of RSS BJP think that killing muslim, creating hatred , erecting barriers to safety ,securuty ,job,education,and blaming them for what happened centuries ago and for partition are the small price for allwing them to live in India .

    They think that thise lies cant be challenged and corrected because majority Indians say so and majority Indians think so. The RSS mafia thinks that the best way to capture vote for BJP is to tell the Hindus that muslims would swamp India again because they have personal laws in India's democracy and is the laws are tolerated in Indian secularism .

    Indian democracy is the best horse trading shit show on earth now. Indian secularisn since 1987 has been what RSS thinks secularism should be based on -- destroy masjid, ,unilaterly change Kashmir status, lie about seizing Jammu Kashmir , suppress facts about expelking muskim from Jammu, seize Hyderabad and Junagarh and kill the muslims if they protest against Citzenship.

    When reminded and challenged , they just stick to the mantra-- muslims are killing muslims everywhere and muslims killled millions Hindus in times of Pathan and Mughal rule.

    These misguided dont know that their own history about killing Biddhist ,Jains and indigenous and destroying the non - Hindu temples and even gloating and glorifying the murder and massacre in their own religiius books .

    Reaching and digging in their back passgae and keister ,the RSS produce facts. One of the facts that they churn out is that Hindus have declined in Pakistan . But their own data as documented by India Today exposes the lies. But lying for RSS BJP thug is par the course. That lies then enter into their history books which would be altered again in future by the future descendents of and placeholders of fanatic RSS BJP organization if situation demands .

    In that rule of laws, those Hindus who organized and managed the burning of the Godhra train incident have still not been punished . Not those RSS cadre who then spread the rumors of muslim doing it. and later influenced the judiciary are still free . They then with help of Modi and his henchmen started killing muslims in Gujrat. They are still free.

    Whats their answers when polinted out these masscares and many others before and after ?The answer that muslim rulers killed us 500 yrs ago or the answer is muslims are always complining .

    When asked about Jammu massacre or Hyderabad killing in 1947-1948, these corrupted minds tell us - oh! thats so long ago, conveniently forgetting that they still remeber what did not happen 500 yrs ago (the unexamined lies of killing and religiously oriented violnce against Hindu subjects or temples ) .
    These lies are the building block of the Hindu's new identuty mandated by RSS .

    Replies: @catchastar, @catchastar, @AltanBakshi

    A Pakistani troll. Now things become clearer. The Godhra incident started with a Muslim mob attacking a train with Hindu pilgrims. No culpability was brought to bear either. In J&K there was lynching rape and murder and an ultimate exodus of the Hindu Kashmiris, their homes and belongings either stolen or sold for a song. No reparations for becoming refugees in their own land. Illegal Muslim Bangladeshis pouring into India demanding rights and citizenship. Why? They got their own wretched country didn’t they? The subcontinent was partitioned on the basis of religions for MUSLIMS! Then why don’t they stay in the land they clamored for? They live in secular India, demanding more than equality…they want supremacy over pagan Hindus. The so-called Babri masjid destruction…it was an unused mosque that had been built on top of a temple in a spot holy to the Hindus. But the Muslims demanded accommodation even in the Hindu holy lands, which had no precedence. Can Hindus demand a Hindu temple in Mecca? The Taliban destroyed ancient Bamiyan buddhas. Were there repercussions?

    The Muslims of India refused a common civil code with their own countrymen whom they consider less than. The hypocrisy is sickening. Liberality for thee but not for me.

    Any Muslim who feels uncomfortable in India should move to Pakistan or Bangladesh, countries that were precisely created for the purpose of accommodating the subcontinent’s Muslims, as per their own demand.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @catchastar

    Our highly multicultural nationalism blog has become even more so. Nowhere else shall you see more esoteric racism concentrated in one place.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @catchastar, @songbird, @AltanBakshi

    , @barr
    @catchastar

    "15 years after Godhra, we still don’t know who lit the fire
    What is perhaps closest to the truth is the report by the Forensic Studies Laboratory at Gandhinagar, Gujarat, which concluded that the coach was set afire by someone “standing in the passage of the compartment near seat number 72, using a container with a wide opening about 60 litres of inflammable liquid has been poured and then a fire has been started in the bogie
    ”https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/15-years-after-the-godhra-we-still-don-t-know-who-lit-the-fire/story-vkeZowN2nhvVkAJPZAPntN.html
    That is the latest forensic evidence from Indian forensic scientist .

    This article gives some benefit of doubt to the Hindu mob returning from Ayoddha ’s destroyed mosque complex ( thats enough ground for the secular government to catch them and put them in jail ) telling us that the fire might have been an accident .


    I don't think so .I believe the Hindu mob did it intentionally .


    Any thing else boy? May be next time you will think it was a miracle and time to compose another Purana .

    "Can Hindus demand a Hindu temple in Mecca? The Taliban destroyed ancient Bamiyan buddhas.”

    Hindus are not the traditional native . But Hindu mosques are pretty common in lot of muslim countries .

    Taliban was under sanction until 2001 May be India should be .

    Replies: @catchastar

  83. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Another misinformed is joining the bandwagaon of the chariot of Advani barreling down Hindu cowbelt . There is total destruction of Muslimin Rakhine state and a poltical mind of RSS variety comes and tells that buddhist shrines have been attacked hiding behind smoke of soundbites .

    A misguided and educated by RSS 's ideloolgy and subscribes to the views that indonesian revolt and subsequent massacre of communists in 60 s fully orchestrated by CIA to thawrt false alarm of communism was Islamic in origin and shape or was product of muslim communalism.

    He like other half educated thinks muslim are privileged class because they still have personal laws .
    Jewish personal and famiky court still operate in USA and Canada listening and advising on issues of divorce custody and inheritance .

    These creatures of propaganda of RSS BJP think that killing muslim, creating hatred , erecting barriers to safety ,securuty ,job,education,and blaming them for what happened centuries ago and for partition are the small price for allwing them to live in India .

    They think that thise lies cant be challenged and corrected because majority Indians say so and majority Indians think so. The RSS mafia thinks that the best way to capture vote for BJP is to tell the Hindus that muslims would swamp India again because they have personal laws in India's democracy and is the laws are tolerated in Indian secularism .

    Indian democracy is the best horse trading shit show on earth now. Indian secularisn since 1987 has been what RSS thinks secularism should be based on -- destroy masjid, ,unilaterly change Kashmir status, lie about seizing Jammu Kashmir , suppress facts about expelking muskim from Jammu, seize Hyderabad and Junagarh and kill the muslims if they protest against Citzenship.

    When reminded and challenged , they just stick to the mantra-- muslims are killing muslims everywhere and muslims killled millions Hindus in times of Pathan and Mughal rule.

    These misguided dont know that their own history about killing Biddhist ,Jains and indigenous and destroying the non - Hindu temples and even gloating and glorifying the murder and massacre in their own religiius books .

    Reaching and digging in their back passgae and keister ,the RSS produce facts. One of the facts that they churn out is that Hindus have declined in Pakistan . But their own data as documented by India Today exposes the lies. But lying for RSS BJP thug is par the course. That lies then enter into their history books which would be altered again in future by the future descendents of and placeholders of fanatic RSS BJP organization if situation demands .

    In that rule of laws, those Hindus who organized and managed the burning of the Godhra train incident have still not been punished . Not those RSS cadre who then spread the rumors of muslim doing it. and later influenced the judiciary are still free . They then with help of Modi and his henchmen started killing muslims in Gujrat. They are still free.

    Whats their answers when polinted out these masscares and many others before and after ?The answer that muslim rulers killed us 500 yrs ago or the answer is muslims are always complining .

    When asked about Jammu massacre or Hyderabad killing in 1947-1948, these corrupted minds tell us - oh! thats so long ago, conveniently forgetting that they still remeber what did not happen 500 yrs ago (the unexamined lies of killing and religiously oriented violnce against Hindu subjects or temples ) .
    These lies are the building block of the Hindu's new identuty mandated by RSS .

    Replies: @catchastar, @catchastar, @AltanBakshi

    These misguided dont know that their own history about killing Biddhist ,Jains and indigenous and destroying the non – Hindu temples and even gloating and glorifying the murder and massacre in their own religiius books .

    Yes, and everyone knows the history of Muslims, where ever they go, there is strife and subjugation. A medieval, stone age political cult masquerading as a religion. PEACE BE UPON YOU.

    • Replies: @barr
    @catchastar

    In photos: Fourteen Delhi mosques and a dargah that were burnt by Hindutva vigilantes in three days
    Many of the attacks occurred in broad daylight. During the three days of violence in North East Delhi starting on February 24, at least 14 mosques and a Sufi dargah were burnt by Hindutva vigilantes.

    Some mosques look like they were fire bombed through windows that were prised open after their glass panes were broken. Others were clearly set alight by people who rampaged through them tearing up books, breaking furniture, wrenching off taps, battering anything they could not break, before setting everything on fire. In situations where the imam or muezzin were unable to flee in time, they were set upon by the mob with rods and batons.

    Many of the attacks occurred in broad daylight


    Anjali Mody
    Mar 12, 2020 · 09:00 amhttps://scroll.in/article/955713/in-photos-fifteen-muslim-shrines-in-delhi-that-were-burnt-by-hindutva-vigilantes-in-three-days




    When Modi’s minions or overseas friends of BJP-RSS are asked about it - the stock phrase revolves around 2 or 3 answers -

    Muslim has 4 wives
    Muslim should go back to Pakistan

    sometimes a little more indoctrinated will say :” Muslim killed us - we the Hindus - from 1400 to 1857"

    Replies: @catchastar

  84. @catchastar
    @barr

    A Pakistani troll. Now things become clearer. The Godhra incident started with a Muslim mob attacking a train with Hindu pilgrims. No culpability was brought to bear either. In J&K there was lynching rape and murder and an ultimate exodus of the Hindu Kashmiris, their homes and belongings either stolen or sold for a song. No reparations for becoming refugees in their own land. Illegal Muslim Bangladeshis pouring into India demanding rights and citizenship. Why? They got their own wretched country didn't they? The subcontinent was partitioned on the basis of religions for MUSLIMS! Then why don't they stay in the land they clamored for? They live in secular India, demanding more than equality...they want supremacy over pagan Hindus. The so-called Babri masjid destruction...it was an unused mosque that had been built on top of a temple in a spot holy to the Hindus. But the Muslims demanded accommodation even in the Hindu holy lands, which had no precedence. Can Hindus demand a Hindu temple in Mecca? The Taliban destroyed ancient Bamiyan buddhas. Were there repercussions?

    The Muslims of India refused a common civil code with their own countrymen whom they consider less than. The hypocrisy is sickening. Liberality for thee but not for me.

    Any Muslim who feels uncomfortable in India should move to Pakistan or Bangladesh, countries that were precisely created for the purpose of accommodating the subcontinent's Muslims, as per their own demand.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @barr

    Our highly multicultural nationalism blog has become even more so. Nowhere else shall you see more esoteric racism concentrated in one place.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Daniel Chieh

    https://youtu.be/RXnM1uHhsOI?t=69

    , @catchastar
    @Daniel Chieh

    :)

    , @songbird
    @Daniel Chieh

    I feel like Sikhs arrested TF's family for maintaining household slaves.

    Probably just my imagination though.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    , @AltanBakshi
    @Daniel Chieh

    You cant be racist against Islam, its a religion, not a race or an ethnic group.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Daniel Chieh, @Stan

  85. @Daniel Chieh
    @catchastar

    Our highly multicultural nationalism blog has become even more so. Nowhere else shall you see more esoteric racism concentrated in one place.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @catchastar, @songbird, @AltanBakshi

  86. @Daniel Chieh
    @catchastar

    Our highly multicultural nationalism blog has become even more so. Nowhere else shall you see more esoteric racism concentrated in one place.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @catchastar, @songbird, @AltanBakshi

    🙂

  87. Without the British, the Sikh Khalsa Raj ________.

    a.) would have conquered India proper
    b.) would have maintained its territory, or grown modestly
    c.) would have waned and then fallen apart (please, specify reason)
    d.) would have been crushed by the Portuguese, or other European people
    e.) other

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    @songbird

    Without Britain, India would have been conquered by Sikhs and Africa by Somalis and Zulus.

    I think the Sikhs fought a war with China too, perhaps Tibet would a region of Khalistan.

    Replies: @songbird, @AltanBakshi

    , @Grahamsno(G64)
    @songbird


    Without the British, the Sikh Khalsa Raj ________.

    a.) would have conquered India proper
     
    Bullshit what nonsense North Indians Northeners in general have this deluded fantasies about being the tall tough warriors who routed the South, in India the south was never under any sustained military occupation except by the British and where are they now? The last great Islamic Hero Tipu Sultan had his hands full fighting off the British and expanding his empire in the South, he and his allies the French wanted a port on the West Coast and the quickest way to it was to capture Kerala where he met ferocious resistance as the military caste of Kerala the Nairs gave it to him good so much so that he gave explicit orders to annihilate this caste, this is all recorded by the French serving under him, Islam in Kerala was spread by Arab traders and not by force, hundreds of Nair strongholds were overrun and the people forcibly converted, the army retreated deep south and requested the help of the British who were glad to help as they were killing two enemies in the battle for the sub continent, the British & the Nairs prevailed and they formed a national army for the first time with the Nair regiment given a high place, it was the end of independent Kerala. The first thing they did was to ban the open carry of arms an ancient privelege of the caste... History is always fluid and fascinating as Dylan sang "don’t speak too soon" "you’ll sink like a stone For the times they are a-changin’"

    The greatest geopolitical events in our time the collapse of Soviet Union and the explosive rise of China were so off the charts pure 'Black Swan' events which were never predicted so enough of this genetic determinism HBD nonsense, some humility please.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  88. @songbird
    Without the British, the Sikh Khalsa Raj ________.

    a.) would have conquered India proper
    b.) would have maintained its territory, or grown modestly
    c.) would have waned and then fallen apart (please, specify reason)
    d.) would have been crushed by the Portuguese, or other European people
    e.) other

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist, @Grahamsno(G64)

    Without Britain, India would have been conquered by Sikhs and Africa by Somalis and Zulus.

    I think the Sikhs fought a war with China too, perhaps Tibet would a region of Khalistan.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Kent Nationalist

    I don't think the Zulu would have done too well, outside of South Africa. That, is in an African vs. African contest. Their political structure seemed fairly unstable. Didn't Shaka kill all his sons or something? Then they didn't have bows and arrows. Probably their tactics would not have worked well in the jungle. Open map: I think the Boers would have wiped the floor with them. See: Blood River.

    Meanwhile, I'm not sure Somalis could have handled Ethiopians.

    , @AltanBakshi
    @Kent Nationalist

    They fought against the Qing Empire, no Han soldiers were hurt or employed during that war, just Manchus, Mongols and Tibetans. Sikhs practically lost but got some minor parts of historical Tibet, like Ladakh, and couple other valleys, where Ive been, beautiful but weather is inhospitable, even for me!

    https://piximus.net/media/17992/tibetan-monasteryfortress-key-gompa-18.jpg

  89. @Daniel Chieh
    @catchastar

    Our highly multicultural nationalism blog has become even more so. Nowhere else shall you see more esoteric racism concentrated in one place.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @catchastar, @songbird, @AltanBakshi

    I feel like Sikhs arrested TF’s family for maintaining household slaves.

    Probably just my imagination though.

    • Agree: Jatt Aryaa, Daniel Chieh
    • LOL: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @songbird

    Blue eyed Sikhs.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Bharara%2C_Preet_Headshot.jpg/457px-Bharara%2C_Preet_Headshot.jpg

  90. @Daniel Chieh
    @catchastar

    Our highly multicultural nationalism blog has become even more so. Nowhere else shall you see more esoteric racism concentrated in one place.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @catchastar, @songbird, @AltanBakshi

    You cant be racist against Islam, its a religion, not a race or an ethnic group.

    • Replies: @catchastar
    @AltanBakshi

    Ssh...don't tell him that. It'll make his brain explode.

    Y'see it's ok to accuse Indians of *anything*. This is a Chinese funded site after all. They have to get the best return on their money spent...bashing Indians, promoting Chinese interests, laying claim to as much land and water they can snatch from their neighbors. Only Pakis and other Muslims are not allowed to be criticized. Have fun when Pakis stab y'all in the back and start helping their Uighur 'brothers'.

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @AltanBakshi

    Was more of a more general comment about the amusing intersection of multicultural posters and the nationalism of Karlin's blog.

    , @Stan
    @AltanBakshi

    Islam is more than a religion. It is Arab cultural imperialism.

  91. @Kent Nationalist
    @songbird

    Without Britain, India would have been conquered by Sikhs and Africa by Somalis and Zulus.

    I think the Sikhs fought a war with China too, perhaps Tibet would a region of Khalistan.

    Replies: @songbird, @AltanBakshi

    I don’t think the Zulu would have done too well, outside of South Africa. That, is in an African vs. African contest. Their political structure seemed fairly unstable. Didn’t Shaka kill all his sons or something? Then they didn’t have bows and arrows. Probably their tactics would not have worked well in the jungle. Open map: I think the Boers would have wiped the floor with them. See: Blood River.

    Meanwhile, I’m not sure Somalis could have handled Ethiopians.

  92. @Kent Nationalist
    @songbird

    Without Britain, India would have been conquered by Sikhs and Africa by Somalis and Zulus.

    I think the Sikhs fought a war with China too, perhaps Tibet would a region of Khalistan.

    Replies: @songbird, @AltanBakshi

    They fought against the Qing Empire, no Han soldiers were hurt or employed during that war, just Manchus, Mongols and Tibetans. Sikhs practically lost but got some minor parts of historical Tibet, like Ladakh, and couple other valleys, where Ive been, beautiful but weather is inhospitable, even for me!

  93. @songbird
    @Daniel Chieh

    I feel like Sikhs arrested TF's family for maintaining household slaves.

    Probably just my imagination though.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    Blue eyed Sikhs.

    [MORE]

    • Agree: songbird
  94. @catchastar
    @barr

    A Pakistani troll. Now things become clearer. The Godhra incident started with a Muslim mob attacking a train with Hindu pilgrims. No culpability was brought to bear either. In J&K there was lynching rape and murder and an ultimate exodus of the Hindu Kashmiris, their homes and belongings either stolen or sold for a song. No reparations for becoming refugees in their own land. Illegal Muslim Bangladeshis pouring into India demanding rights and citizenship. Why? They got their own wretched country didn't they? The subcontinent was partitioned on the basis of religions for MUSLIMS! Then why don't they stay in the land they clamored for? They live in secular India, demanding more than equality...they want supremacy over pagan Hindus. The so-called Babri masjid destruction...it was an unused mosque that had been built on top of a temple in a spot holy to the Hindus. But the Muslims demanded accommodation even in the Hindu holy lands, which had no precedence. Can Hindus demand a Hindu temple in Mecca? The Taliban destroyed ancient Bamiyan buddhas. Were there repercussions?

    The Muslims of India refused a common civil code with their own countrymen whom they consider less than. The hypocrisy is sickening. Liberality for thee but not for me.

    Any Muslim who feels uncomfortable in India should move to Pakistan or Bangladesh, countries that were precisely created for the purpose of accommodating the subcontinent's Muslims, as per their own demand.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @barr

    “15 years after Godhra, we still don’t know who lit the fire
    What is perhaps closest to the truth is the report by the Forensic Studies Laboratory at Gandhinagar, Gujarat, which concluded that the coach was set afire by someone “standing in the passage of the compartment near seat number 72, using a container with a wide opening about 60 litres of inflammable liquid has been poured and then a fire has been started in the bogie
    ”https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/15-years-after-the-godhra-we-still-don-t-know-who-lit-the-fire/story-vkeZowN2nhvVkAJPZAPntN.html
    That is the latest forensic evidence from Indian forensic scientist .

    This article gives some benefit of doubt to the Hindu mob returning from Ayoddha ’s destroyed mosque complex ( thats enough ground for the secular government to catch them and put them in jail ) telling us that the fire might have been an accident .

    I don’t think so .I believe the Hindu mob did it intentionally .

    Any thing else boy? May be next time you will think it was a miracle and time to compose another Purana .

    “Can Hindus demand a Hindu temple in Mecca? The Taliban destroyed ancient Bamiyan buddhas.”

    Hindus are not the traditional native . But Hindu mosques are pretty common in lot of muslim countries .

    Taliban was under sanction until 2001 May be India should be .

    • Replies: @catchastar
    @barr

    Oh BOY, there is no such thing as a Hindu mosque. Just like there are no Muslim temples. But I guess they didn't teach you that in the madrassa. I'm asking again, would Saudis permit a Hindu temple in Mecca or Medina, on the exact spot that Muslims revere as holy? Hindus have been living and working in Saudi for decades at least. Why not?

    Don't worry, I'm composing my next Purana in my spare time. But you won't be updating that trash book Koran anytime right? Because it's "perfect" revealed truth from Allah, the messianic god? No updations needed in your 7th century worldview anytime soon.

    Perhaps the Muslim Brotherhoods ought to be sanctioned. It's simple - you asked for a lebensraum and got it. Now go live there.

    Replies: @barr

  95. @catchastar
    @barr


    These misguided dont know that their own history about killing Biddhist ,Jains and indigenous and destroying the non – Hindu temples and even gloating and glorifying the murder and massacre in their own religiius books .
     
    Yes, and everyone knows the history of Muslims, where ever they go, there is strife and subjugation. A medieval, stone age political cult masquerading as a religion. PEACE BE UPON YOU.

    Replies: @barr

    In photos: Fourteen Delhi mosques and a dargah that were burnt by Hindutva vigilantes in three days
    Many of the attacks occurred in broad daylight. During the three days of violence in North East Delhi starting on February 24, at least 14 mosques and a Sufi dargah were burnt by Hindutva vigilantes.

    Some mosques look like they were fire bombed through windows that were prised open after their glass panes were broken. Others were clearly set alight by people who rampaged through them tearing up books, breaking furniture, wrenching off taps, battering anything they could not break, before setting everything on fire. In situations where the imam or muezzin were unable to flee in time, they were set upon by the mob with rods and batons.

    Many of the attacks occurred in broad daylight

    Anjali Mody
    Mar 12, 2020 · 09:00 amhttps://scroll.in/article/955713/in-photos-fifteen-muslim-shrines-in-delhi-that-were-burnt-by-hindutva-vigilantes-in-three-days

    When Modi’s minions or overseas friends of BJP-RSS are asked about it – the stock phrase revolves around 2 or 3 answers –

    Muslim has 4 wives
    Muslim should go back to Pakistan

    sometimes a little more indoctrinated will say :” Muslim killed us – we the Hindus – from 1400 to 1857″

    • Replies: @catchastar
    @barr


    When Modi’s minions or overseas friends of BJP-RSS are asked about it – the stock phrase revolves around 2 or 3 answers –

    Muslim has 4 wives
    Muslim should go back to Pakistan
     
    And what's wrong with that? You never answered as to why, when the Indian Subcontinent was divided only and only along the lines of religion into two, and then three countries, on the basis of demands from Muslims, WHY the Muslims won't live in their own lebensraum? When Bangladesh got its own country after a pure racist genocide by their 'superior' Western Muslim brothers, why won't they stay in their own country and illegally hop into India asking for rights and privileges?

    I am not convinced of your feeble argument on Godhra, there was ample evidence at the time that the train full of pilgrims had been attacked. But regardless of that, I do not condone the violence that followed. But I notice you chose to remain quiet on the sad condition of the Pandits, also Kashmiris may I remind you. The troops of Pakistan raped and murdered literally millions of Bangla Hindu women, but there was no acknowledgement of that genocide either by the Pak establishment that is paying your bills. I guess it's A-OK in your book when genocide is inflicted on Hindus.

    When Muslims choose to immigrate to the United States of America ( a most favored destination), they HAVE to follow the law of the land. Sharia law is not permitted. They most happily submit. So how come the Muslims of India even after 70 years of independence won't agree to a common civil code, eh? In villages of UP, they fly Pakistani flags every so often. How would that go over in Pak and Bangla territory?

    What Muslims want is supremacy, not equality. So yes, I have to say, as a moderate, who really never was RSS or any of that far right crap, I do finally see the light of the true Muslim agenda. As great as they may be on an individual level, they are as a body polity incompatible with the religion of the land of their forefathers.
  96. @Ludwig
    @Felix Keverich

    Modi’s government is nationalistic and similar in that sense to Trump’s. It aims for a more hard nosed India-first policy which mutes if not abandons some of the traditional idealism based policies - at least in name if not in practice - of aligning with anti-imperial forces and causes worldwide.

    In that way, Modi’s policies are not dissimilar to Putin’s which are more realism than ideological based. While Modi’s government has welcomed closer relations with the US and Israel, it has mostly been careful not to do so at the expense of relations with Russia, rejecting zero-sum geopolitical games that the Western bloc encourages. India too is a strong adherent to the concept of a multi-polar world.

    Indeed Modi has often spoken of Putin as a man whose word one can trust; Lavrov has just last week said this as part of his annual presser: (see https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/4527635)


    The partnership between Russia and India is called slightly differently. You called it a strategic partnership. This was the original title. Some years later, the Indian side proposed to call it a privileged strategic partnership. And a few years ago, when Prime Minister Modi became the head of the Indian government, we changed it to a specially privileged strategic partnership.

    I believe there is room for further improvement, but the current terminology indicates a special kind of relationship. India is our very close, very strategic and very privileged partner. Take the economy, take innovations, high technology or military and technical cooperation, India is one of our closest partners in all these areas. We have close political coordination in the United Nations and within BRICS.
     
    India has either voted with Russia or abstained but not voted against Russian interests at the UN. It continues cooperation on the defense and nuclear industries, and are aligned on various geopolitical issues like Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela. Sputnik V is on track to be approved in weeks as soon as Phase 3 trials are complete in India, with India to produce the vaccines both for internal as well as Russian market.

    The one irritant is not so much India working with the US or Israel (Russia too has an understanding w Israel), but the tensions between India and China which weaken the RIC, BRIC, SCO organizations. The tensions between India and China are not geopolitical in nature - though the US is trying to add this dimension to it - but the kind of border issues common throughout history between neighbors.

    Indeed it’s recognized by both India and China at the highest level that these border issues are mutually counterproductive in a strategic sense but nationalist considerations means that neither can also retreat from what each sees as provocations from the other at the border with a slow simmer the best practical outcome, and open warfare being the worst.

    Here Russia being a trusted party to both can play a strong behind the scenes part (for its own geopolitical interests which are served by more cohesion within RIC/BRICS/SCO) while of course the US in interested in fanning the flames for its own geopolitical interests.

    Replies: @JL, @Kent Nationalist, @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

    I agree with most of your comment but I disagree regarding India’s stance v Russia and the west. For instance yousay that India stands with Russia on Iran but that’s not true. When the US threatened any nation that buys oil from Iran or trades with Iran – India wilted. Same with Venezuela… What support has India shown to Venezuela?
    And when a Russian minister publicly accused the US of being the one stoking tension on the border between India and China and both sides should be wise enough not to fall for it – the Indian foreign minister publicly said his Russian counterpart wasn’t living in reality. That doesn’t sound like India is neutral.
    I would like to believe what you are saying – but I honestly don’t see it.

  97. @Ludwig
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    There are really two border issues: one is where the legal border is, and the second is where the Line of Actual Control, ie where the de facto border is.

    The legal border is settled in a few places but in key areas it is not. In particular India claims a part of Aksai Chin occupied by China as part of the erstwhile kingdom of Jammu & Kashmir which is of course also claimed in entirety by Pakistan (apart from many in the region who would rather be independent from everyone). This piece of land is quite strategic as a key road runs through it to connect China proper to Pakistan as part of China’s larger Belt & Road Initiative. India will never give up the claim and neither will China ever relinquish it and China in fact has aggressively built up defenses in the area to prevent India from ever overrunning that area and cutting off that road.

    Similarly in the East there is a state that is occupied by India that China claims as part of South Tibet. This is strategic for India as it opens up its eastern Indian states to China if relinquished. Again the chances of resolving this are slim (though China has offered various land swaps).

    These issue were handed down by the British - then colonizing India - drawing their lines with Tibet with China claiming that Tibet at the time did not have the right to agree to the border and only China proper did rendering any such agreements null and void and historical Tibetan kingdom claims taking precedence.

    So to resolve the legal border issue will take a long time - perhaps geological plate dynamics might resolve something over eons (though actually the Indian subcontinent is pushing against the Asian landmass and Tibet, versus tearing away.)

    What’s more hopeful is an agreement on the Line of Actual Control (LAC) ie the de facto line.

    Unfortunately the de facto line itself is disputed and by definition since a de facto line means the line till which you actually occupy the land, as the snows melt, patrols of soldiers go up from forward bases to where they feel their claim points are with an agreement that if they encounter an opposing patrol, they will turn back to where the undisputed claim lines are. (There is a whole procedure worked out where upon meeting the opposing soldiers will unfurl banners in English, Hindi, Mandarin with some standard verbiage claiming the land, before disengaging). To prevent lethal escalations, there is also an agreement that soldiers don’t carry guns on patrols in these disputed areas.

    This game, ridiculous as it sounds, works when each side retreats during the winters to more stable bases in undisputed territory and re-emerges to stomp around their claimed ones.

    China with its superior infrastructure, surveillance and supply chains is seen to have been violating this agreement by making permanent structures and roads that can carry heavy trucks on what India claims are at the least disputed areas of the LAC while the Indian side have little built up roads or structures in these areas.

    So the Chinese have been seen to have pushed right up to their claim line and in some cases have even moved the claim line (like in the area in which 20 Indian soldiers and an unknown number of Chinese ones died in hand-to-hand combat and attacks with barbed-wire clubs thus keeping to the letter if not the spirit of the agreement against guns).

    Many of these areas are strategic either offensively or defensively in the sense that occupying them would give them an geographical advantage, eg commanding heights or water sources to control downstream lands dozens of miles away. There are valleys through which soldiers can potentially invade into the other’s territory proper.

    To disengage from this situation as per the Indian side requires the Chinese to dismantle their infrastructure and return to the status quo of some years prior. China sees their buildings as perfectly legitimate as per their claim lines. As per India, the Chinese will offer to only remove some but then gradually encroach the next year more and more making their de facto area larger and larger, so basically moving back 2 km and advancing 3 km and so on.

    This has happened not just in remote areas but in the de facto Indian state that China claims. Eg see https://www.10bmnews.com/2021/01/india-was-left-staring-china-occupied.html where China is claimed to have built a whole residential area 4.5 km inside India’s claim line.

    All this is part of China’s fairly aggressive “offensive defense” across various disputed areas from the South China Sea to the land borders with India. India sees this as Xi trying to take advantage of India’s relative weakness before a stronger India makes this expansion more difficult.

    This also coincides with China’s rapid rise - especially during the global pandemic which has weakened a lot of its rivals. Thus India, the weaker party, turns to the US to try and gain leverage in the ocean while trying not to become another US puppet even as the US itself is losing clout.

    Russia meanwhile gets all this and is sympathetic to India’s position even as it itself needs China as a bulwark against the West. As to how the India-China border situation will evolve is to be seen, but a quick solution seems unlikely.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    “The legal border is settled in a few places but in key areas it is not. In particular India claims a part of Aksai Chin occupied by China as part of the erstwhile kingdom of Jammu & Kashmir which is of course also claimed in entirety by Pakistan (apart from many in the region who would rather be independent from everyone). This piece of land is quite strategic as a key road runs through it to connect China proper to Pakistan as part of China’s larger Belt & Road Initiative. India will never give up the claim and neither will China ever relinquish it and China in fact has aggressively built up defenses in the area to prevent India from ever overrunning that area and cutting off that road.”

    Again I have to disagree. China was willing to give up Aksai China in return for South Tibet. In the 1960’s war China march all the way through to their claim in South Tibet but voluntarily withdrew. They were willing to give Askai Chin rather than just strong arm India – which they could have at the time. If you look at China’s border issues – it actually gave up land to every single neighbor it had a dispute with. India refused…
    It has little to do with strength. Little Tajikstan and weak Kazakstan got plenty of land from China. Myanmar did. So it’s not just “strong” Russia that China willingly gave up land to. India simply refused to negotiate on anything and wants the British Raj back. It’s just like India’s beef with Pakistan. The simplest solution is for both of them to take the part of Kashmir that they claim. If Kashmiris don’t want to be part of India (which many don’t) they could move to the Pakistani side. Extreme nationalism is dangerous. There are indeed certain claims China has never given up and won’t – which are Taiwan and the islands in the South China Sea. But when you look at the constitution of the Republic of China in Taiwan – they claim MILLIONS of more square kilometers than are occupied by the People’s Republic right now. Xi is not trying to get any of those lands back (even though some slanderously try to say they will – in order to stir up angst among their neighbors). Even in the South China Sea – China has never said they control all the resources… What they have said is wherever claims overlap there should be joint sharing of resources. The US didn’t like that plan so stirred up the former Filipino government (the current one under Duterte agrees with the idea but much of their military is still subservient to US interests). Malaysia and Brunei were amicable towards the idea also -but Vietnam wasn’t/isn’t.
    The only other land border China hasn’t formalized is with Bhutan. Again – China offered a swap – which would actually give Bhutan a small increase in land. Bhutan is very willing to do it… However – India though has veto over Bhutan’s foreign policy and won’t let them do it – because they fear losing their northeast territories – which are very restive.

    That said – I do agree with your overall sentiments.

  98. @barr
    @catchastar

    In photos: Fourteen Delhi mosques and a dargah that were burnt by Hindutva vigilantes in three days
    Many of the attacks occurred in broad daylight. During the three days of violence in North East Delhi starting on February 24, at least 14 mosques and a Sufi dargah were burnt by Hindutva vigilantes.

    Some mosques look like they were fire bombed through windows that were prised open after their glass panes were broken. Others were clearly set alight by people who rampaged through them tearing up books, breaking furniture, wrenching off taps, battering anything they could not break, before setting everything on fire. In situations where the imam or muezzin were unable to flee in time, they were set upon by the mob with rods and batons.

    Many of the attacks occurred in broad daylight


    Anjali Mody
    Mar 12, 2020 · 09:00 amhttps://scroll.in/article/955713/in-photos-fifteen-muslim-shrines-in-delhi-that-were-burnt-by-hindutva-vigilantes-in-three-days




    When Modi’s minions or overseas friends of BJP-RSS are asked about it - the stock phrase revolves around 2 or 3 answers -

    Muslim has 4 wives
    Muslim should go back to Pakistan

    sometimes a little more indoctrinated will say :” Muslim killed us - we the Hindus - from 1400 to 1857"

    Replies: @catchastar

    When Modi’s minions or overseas friends of BJP-RSS are asked about it – the stock phrase revolves around 2 or 3 answers –

    Muslim has 4 wives
    Muslim should go back to Pakistan

    And what’s wrong with that? You never answered as to why, when the Indian Subcontinent was divided only and only along the lines of religion into two, and then three countries, on the basis of demands from Muslims, WHY the Muslims won’t live in their own lebensraum? When Bangladesh got its own country after a pure racist genocide by their ‘superior’ Western Muslim brothers, why won’t they stay in their own country and illegally hop into India asking for rights and privileges?

    I am not convinced of your feeble argument on Godhra, there was ample evidence at the time that the train full of pilgrims had been attacked. But regardless of that, I do not condone the violence that followed. But I notice you chose to remain quiet on the sad condition of the Pandits, also Kashmiris may I remind you. The troops of Pakistan raped and murdered literally millions of Bangla Hindu women, but there was no acknowledgement of that genocide either by the Pak establishment that is paying your bills. I guess it’s A-OK in your book when genocide is inflicted on Hindus.

    When Muslims choose to immigrate to the United States of America ( a most favored destination), they HAVE to follow the law of the land. Sharia law is not permitted. They most happily submit. So how come the Muslims of India even after 70 years of independence won’t agree to a common civil code, eh? In villages of UP, they fly Pakistani flags every so often. How would that go over in Pak and Bangla territory?

    What Muslims want is supremacy, not equality. So yes, I have to say, as a moderate, who really never was RSS or any of that far right crap, I do finally see the light of the true Muslim agenda. As great as they may be on an individual level, they are as a body polity incompatible with the religion of the land of their forefathers.

  99. @barr
    @catchastar

    "15 years after Godhra, we still don’t know who lit the fire
    What is perhaps closest to the truth is the report by the Forensic Studies Laboratory at Gandhinagar, Gujarat, which concluded that the coach was set afire by someone “standing in the passage of the compartment near seat number 72, using a container with a wide opening about 60 litres of inflammable liquid has been poured and then a fire has been started in the bogie
    ”https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/15-years-after-the-godhra-we-still-don-t-know-who-lit-the-fire/story-vkeZowN2nhvVkAJPZAPntN.html
    That is the latest forensic evidence from Indian forensic scientist .

    This article gives some benefit of doubt to the Hindu mob returning from Ayoddha ’s destroyed mosque complex ( thats enough ground for the secular government to catch them and put them in jail ) telling us that the fire might have been an accident .


    I don't think so .I believe the Hindu mob did it intentionally .


    Any thing else boy? May be next time you will think it was a miracle and time to compose another Purana .

    "Can Hindus demand a Hindu temple in Mecca? The Taliban destroyed ancient Bamiyan buddhas.”

    Hindus are not the traditional native . But Hindu mosques are pretty common in lot of muslim countries .

    Taliban was under sanction until 2001 May be India should be .

    Replies: @catchastar

    Oh BOY, there is no such thing as a Hindu mosque. Just like there are no Muslim temples. But I guess they didn’t teach you that in the madrassa. I’m asking again, would Saudis permit a Hindu temple in Mecca or Medina, on the exact spot that Muslims revere as holy? Hindus have been living and working in Saudi for decades at least. Why not?

    Don’t worry, I’m composing my next Purana in my spare time. But you won’t be updating that trash book Koran anytime right? Because it’s “perfect” revealed truth from Allah, the messianic god? No updations needed in your 7th century worldview anytime soon.

    Perhaps the Muslim Brotherhoods ought to be sanctioned. It’s simple – you asked for a lebensraum and got it. Now go live there.

    • Replies: @barr
    @catchastar

    Neo Saudi shouldn’t permit any Hindu Temple in Mecca or Medina or in any Saudi land. Saudi should permit church anywhere then Saudi Christians lives. and Said Christian lives and then it can move towards the secularism scale . Expatriates until recently were not paying taxes to Saudi .

    Chew on this information , chew on this legal aspect and imbibe the idea because your defects go beyond simple blind spot for Hinduvatta and for RSS-BJP .


    . Concept and adherence to secularism doesn’t demand that Saudi allows building of temples or Akhra of Goraknath or Yogi or opening of naked camp because of the fact taht Hinduism is neither native nor traditionally related to Saudi by any stretch of imagination. Once Hindus expatriates become citizen ,it should.


    Indian sophistry is unmistakably obvious here -in the misplaced ethical- political- legal cant of the RSS BJP votaries - why Saudi doe not have temple ? Because RSS wants the world accept expulsion of muslim destruction of shrines masjid and homes and persecution of muslims as normal because Saudi doesn’t allow a Hindu temple anywhere in the kingdom . Does Saudi mob come to Hindu’s houses to destroy the Hindu lives or properties or the religious books while police simply stand by ?

    Hindus have temples and enjoy freedom of religion in Bangladesh Malaysia Indonesia Oman Brunei Turkey Bahrain, Sierra Leone ,Nigeria Lebanon, and even in Uzbekistan - many of these places where Hindus live and conduct business as expatriates.

    Before asking all muslim leave India, India should return J-K, parts of Gujrat and Hyderabad and surrounding areas to Muslims and those areas not still handed over to Bangladesh .

  100. @AltanBakshi
    @Europe Europa

    Before the Mongol conquest, China was divided into four states, so it is thanks to the Mongols (and Manchus) that China got unified and has its modern borders, still the Chinese revolted against their Mongolian overlords, and for a century pursued aggressively anti-Mongol policies. Is a modern China then just a Mongol or a Manchu political invention? At least Chinas borders are.

    Still both India and China have had periods of unity, before being conquered by foreigners.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Maurya_Empire%2C_c.250_BCE_2.png

    Like the Maurya Empire 2300 years ago, or Mughals or Marathas, who also were preeminent powers in the subcontinent before the Brits.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Mughal_Empire%2C_1707.png

    There are other examples of hegemonic powers in Indias history, like the Kushan empire, Guptas, Delhi Sultanate and so on.

    But I believe that without British rule there probably would be more countries in Indian subcontinent, but who knows, maybe some Sikh, Marathi or Afghani leader could have carved a large empire without the British interference in the 19th century?

    Replies: @Yevardian

    China has spent far more time as a united kingdom (more often than not) than the Indian subcontinent, not to mention greater cultural and ethno-linguistic unity. All of those pan-Indian Empires were relatively ephemeral as well.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @catchastar
    @Yevardian

    Goalpost shifting alert! This is a Chinee funded site (all them extra $$$)...Pakis don't spend their monee like dat...they're more into bang for their buck.

    Ah well, it's been fun.

    , @showmethereal
    @Yevardian

    I agree that China has spent far more time as a united kingdom - but the part about ethno linguistic unity is not true. Mandarin only became the official language in recent history. Reason being is China has often come apart because of ethnic and regional conflagrations. Even among the Han people. Mandarin was NEVER the common language. In reality the ROC when formed in 1911 chose Mandarin in a way that was continuity with the Manchu led Qing... Mandarin was the prominent language of the power base around Beijing - which coincidentally was originally made the capital of China by the Mongols. China has never been monolithic.. They just did a better job of managing the different groups throughout history and absorbing "foreign" tribes who invaded and took them over. Case in point about absorption... When westerners started invading in the Manchu led Qing era - the reformers in the early 1900's wanted to "kick out the foreigners". The Manchu viewed the Europeans (including Americans) as Japanese as the foreigners now. When the Nationalists took over in 1911 and restored Han rule - they called themselves nationalists to also get rid of foreigners (which is why it's a shame that the "Nationalists" in Taiwan now are so deferential to the US and Japan). But the Manchu were not counted as "foreigners" anymore by the Nationalists. They were included among the 5 major "races" of the new Republic (along with Mongols - Han - Tibetan - Hui (which really counted all Muslims)

    India's issue in my view lies in the fact that they are an imposed British construct. It wasn't organic. Had it been allowed to happen organically - it would have been more fluid. This is much about the Sikhs and some discussion about Kashmir... But I haven't seen anyone touch on the ethnic groups of the Northeast who are not happy at all and live under martial law.

    Replies: @Meena

    , @AltanBakshi
    @Yevardian

    I mostly agree with you, but the heartland of India, Indo-Gangetic plain, where majority of people live, has often been united, more often than not in the past thousand years. It also must be remembered that PRC is first Han led regime of China with so vast borders. Han nationalists differ and claim that borders of Tang or Ming were as, or almost as vast, but thats bullshit, based on honorary titles and offices given to barbarian leaders, by same logic Eastern Romans had control over Gothic kingdoms. At least Germanic barbarians were happy to receive titles of rex and patricius from the Roman emperor, did that make them part of the Byzantine empire? Hell no!

    Replies: @sher singh

  101. @Yevardian
    @AltanBakshi

    China has spent far more time as a united kingdom (more often than not) than the Indian subcontinent, not to mention greater cultural and ethno-linguistic unity. All of those pan-Indian Empires were relatively ephemeral as well.

    Replies: @catchastar, @showmethereal, @AltanBakshi

    Goalpost shifting alert! This is a Chinee funded site (all them extra $$$)…Pakis don’t spend their monee like dat…they’re more into bang for their buck.

    Ah well, it’s been fun.

  102. @AltanBakshi
    @Daniel Chieh

    You cant be racist against Islam, its a religion, not a race or an ethnic group.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Daniel Chieh, @Stan

    Ssh…don’t tell him that. It’ll make his brain explode.

    Y’see it’s ok to accuse Indians of *anything*. This is a Chinese funded site after all. They have to get the best return on their money spent…bashing Indians, promoting Chinese interests, laying claim to as much land and water they can snatch from their neighbors. Only Pakis and other Muslims are not allowed to be criticized. Have fun when Pakis stab y’all in the back and start helping their Uighur ‘brothers’.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    @catchastar


    This is a Chinese funded site after all
     
    Powerful take

    Replies: @catchastar

  103. @catchastar
    @AltanBakshi

    Ssh...don't tell him that. It'll make his brain explode.

    Y'see it's ok to accuse Indians of *anything*. This is a Chinese funded site after all. They have to get the best return on their money spent...bashing Indians, promoting Chinese interests, laying claim to as much land and water they can snatch from their neighbors. Only Pakis and other Muslims are not allowed to be criticized. Have fun when Pakis stab y'all in the back and start helping their Uighur 'brothers'.

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist

    This is a Chinese funded site after all

    Powerful take

    • Replies: @catchastar
    @Kent Nationalist

    What, this was news to you? A blind dolt could have given that estimate after five minutes of scrolling this site. Most articles here run on a theme of:

    China = good
    America = bad, and under Jewish control
    All western allies of America = weak, bad, suspect, shady or evil
    Russia = basically good, but also grey sometimes, weak sometimes but the wily bear, but also squatting on *ancient Chinee lands* of far east, so maybe a dangerous opponent?
    Third world = dangerous and overcrowded, dystopian, filthy, hellholes galore, no hope, no future, no food, imminent approaching dysentry, famine and death
    Africa = The Heart of Darkness, but also loaded with minerals and dangerous crocs. Always on verge of returning to the jungle, or maybe already there and no hope of emerging again unless White Man or Chinee Man give direction?
    White Nationalists = good, but also stupid, but also noble and of high standards or something
    India = all bad, all evil, all the time, also see *third world
    Muslims = basically medieval but also golden hearted and in dire need of re-education, which the Chinese leadership has so thoughtfully provided to the Uighurs. Infinitely scaleable (on demand?) across the Middle East when the time is right
    Iranians = Not Arabs, a type of White (WN's may disagree), but also clever and dangerous, bad foes and good partners, always under seige, true natural leaders of the Middle East, very much PUT UPON
    Arabs = slippery characters, in cahoots with Israelis, but also good and simple and long-suffering?
    EU (as a stand-in for all europeans) = under mortal attack from Muslim hordes and also long suffering (for reasons unknown), under some kind of pagan revival but also the true inheritors of the Church, reason to fear Russia and do, reason to hare British and do.
    British = perfidious Albion, once again pirates of the high seas. Ancient, vicious, clever, wicked and morally bankrupt and also under Jewish mind control.
    Blacks (as a theme) = sub human, low iq, low everything, overly sexual
    IQ = lack thereof of the many races

    I may have missed some highlights.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Showmethereal, @AaronB, @Europe Europa, @Daniel Chieh

  104. @Kent Nationalist
    @catchastar


    This is a Chinese funded site after all
     
    Powerful take

    Replies: @catchastar

    What, this was news to you? A blind dolt could have given that estimate after five minutes of scrolling this site. Most articles here run on a theme of:

    China = good
    America = bad, and under Jewish control
    All western allies of America = weak, bad, suspect, shady or evil
    Russia = basically good, but also grey sometimes, weak sometimes but the wily bear, but also squatting on *ancient Chinee lands* of far east, so maybe a dangerous opponent?
    Third world = dangerous and overcrowded, dystopian, filthy, hellholes galore, no hope, no future, no food, imminent approaching dysentry, famine and death
    Africa = The Heart of Darkness, but also loaded with minerals and dangerous crocs. Always on verge of returning to the jungle, or maybe already there and no hope of emerging again unless White Man or Chinee Man give direction?
    White Nationalists = good, but also stupid, but also noble and of high standards or something
    India = all bad, all evil, all the time, also see *third world
    Muslims = basically medieval but also golden hearted and in dire need of re-education, which the Chinese leadership has so thoughtfully provided to the Uighurs. Infinitely scaleable (on demand?) across the Middle East when the time is right
    Iranians = Not Arabs, a type of White (WN’s may disagree), but also clever and dangerous, bad foes and good partners, always under seige, true natural leaders of the Middle East, very much PUT UPON
    Arabs = slippery characters, in cahoots with Israelis, but also good and simple and long-suffering?
    EU (as a stand-in for all europeans) = under mortal attack from Muslim hordes and also long suffering (for reasons unknown), under some kind of pagan revival but also the true inheritors of the Church, reason to fear Russia and do, reason to hare British and do.
    British = perfidious Albion, once again pirates of the high seas. Ancient, vicious, clever, wicked and morally bankrupt and also under Jewish mind control.
    Blacks (as a theme) = sub human, low iq, low everything, overly sexual
    IQ = lack thereof of the many races

    I may have missed some highlights.

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @catchastar
    @catchastar


    What, this was news to you? A blind dolt could have given that estimate after five minutes of scrolling this site. Most articles here run on a theme of:
    China = good
    America = bad, and under Jewish control...
    I may have missed some highlights.
    ...

     

    ...continued.
    Nearly every article here is written from the Chinese point of view, including much written by the most unsubtle Pepe Escobar and others whose names don't stand out. This includes geographical boundaries, ocean rights, political maneuvers, culture, history, leadership, human rights, iq, economy and other topics that escape me for now. Any criticisms are of the usual suspects as well, who are China's foes in some way or other. The bias of each article also depends on what the Chinese bias is towards that topic as well.

    It is astonishing that anyone would be surprised by this. It's plain as day. I can only imagine this comes out of the glorious leader's perma-pr fund. Cuz there's no free lunch!

    So...which is it? Are the Jews and Chinese in cahoots after all?

    , @Showmethereal
    @catchastar

    Mayb you should stick to WION and its constant fake news. Your idea is plain nonsense. There are many racist and jingoist comments on anything to do with China on its site. This is called alternative news which means it gives an alternative view from what the mai stream media says which is mostly lies to keep the average person as an obedient sheep. With the exception of a couple of people - most of tye "pro Chinese" people in the comments sections are very articulate and fervent simply because they are tired of the western oriented media (which many Indians seem to love) and their constant folly.
    For aome reason- not just on this site - but many Indians are seething at China's success. Dont blame China. When the British drew the fake border - i stead of when you got independence you sought to negotiate with China in good faith - you chose to continue the British mindset. Still after China beat you in a war and showed it could take the land back it voluntarily retreated so as not to bully you. Still no negotiations in good faith. Your government even let the CIA use your territory to destabilize Tibet and you still show no remorse. Yet you are upset at China for being friends with Pakistan...???? The same Pakistan that the west backed against you - but now you trip over yourselves to now please them and conveniently forget they supported your arch enemy?? Instead of being able to cogently argue those points - you all seem to default to the same position - all of India's problems are because the evil Chinese want to take over the world.
    Fact is that prior to the British takeover of you all China and India were good neighbors for over a thousand years. Indians helped China develop Buddhism and brought insights into math and astronomy into China that helped China develop those arts. There was never any beef between the two. But since the British controlled you - India is of a different mind. Indians now seem to rage with envy that since 1980 - when both were on the same level - China has grown in every endeavor multiple times that of India. A few rocks in the Himalayas are not the cause of India falling behind... Nor is the nonsensical idea that Unz review is somehow controlled by Chinese. Those are sophomoric reasonings.

    Many Chinese farmers are very hapoy now because there are now trains connecting their remote villages to cities where farmers are subsidized with cheap tickets to take the trains to the cities to sell their goods. They go in the morning and return in the evening with money in their pocket. There are also good mobile phone and internet infrastructure in those remote villages which allows some to engage in e-commerce without leaving the villages. If India himbled itself and stopped foolishly trying to fight China over rocks - China could have helped India to help develop the rural areas in a similar manner so there wouldnt be hundreds of millions of angry farmers at proposed reforms. But no - you all dont see it. Seething in jealousy is not healthy

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    , @AaronB
    @catchastar

    I would not be at all surprised if this site was at least partially funded by the CCP.

    And if it isn't, it certainly should be.

    This isn't a free speech site or a site of general intellectual curiosity- its a site specifically for opinions that are "excluded from the mainstream."

    In other words its "propaganda for the other side". Generally very obvious and ham-fisted. Ham-fisted propaganda does not get more crude and clumsy than the main writer on China here, I forget his name, that guy who lives in Thailand, or than Ron's American Pravda series.

    And it isn't a site that welcomes genuinely non-mainstream opinions - opinions that genuinely question the implicit assumptions underlying the shared political discourse from both sides, or the shared implicit assumptions that determine the way society is organized and how one should live, are unpopular and not always published, and are beyond the imagination of most writers or commenters here, who respond with hostility to anything that genuinely deviates from the norm.

    This site is best described as a counter-mainstream site - a site for the purpose of propagating one side in a political debate without questioning the assumptions that frame the debate.

    Occasionally, despite this, something interesting that breaks out from the reigning paradigm gets said, but its rare.

    Replies: @catchastar

    , @Europe Europa
    @catchastar

    I've noticed the British are often a stand in for the Jews in many articles on this site, probably because this site is owned and run by a Jew therefore most columnists likely feel they have to moderate what they say in that regard, and their stereotypes of the British are 90% the same as Jewish stereotypes any way.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @catchastar


    Russia = basically good, but also grey sometimes, weak sometimes but the wily bear, but also squatting on *ancient Chinee lands* of far east, so maybe a dangerous opponent?

     

    Apparently Russians are such a dangerous opponent that they are dangerous opponent even when written by Russian nationalists like Anatoly.

    Powerful takes overall, keep it up.
     
     

  105. @Yevardian
    @AltanBakshi

    China has spent far more time as a united kingdom (more often than not) than the Indian subcontinent, not to mention greater cultural and ethno-linguistic unity. All of those pan-Indian Empires were relatively ephemeral as well.

    Replies: @catchastar, @showmethereal, @AltanBakshi

    I agree that China has spent far more time as a united kingdom – but the part about ethno linguistic unity is not true. Mandarin only became the official language in recent history. Reason being is China has often come apart because of ethnic and regional conflagrations. Even among the Han people. Mandarin was NEVER the common language. In reality the ROC when formed in 1911 chose Mandarin in a way that was continuity with the Manchu led Qing… Mandarin was the prominent language of the power base around Beijing – which coincidentally was originally made the capital of China by the Mongols. China has never been monolithic.. They just did a better job of managing the different groups throughout history and absorbing “foreign” tribes who invaded and took them over. Case in point about absorption… When westerners started invading in the Manchu led Qing era – the reformers in the early 1900’s wanted to “kick out the foreigners”. The Manchu viewed the Europeans (including Americans) as Japanese as the foreigners now. When the Nationalists took over in 1911 and restored Han rule – they called themselves nationalists to also get rid of foreigners (which is why it’s a shame that the “Nationalists” in Taiwan now are so deferential to the US and Japan). But the Manchu were not counted as “foreigners” anymore by the Nationalists. They were included among the 5 major “races” of the new Republic (along with Mongols – Han – Tibetan – Hui (which really counted all Muslims)

    India’s issue in my view lies in the fact that they are an imposed British construct. It wasn’t organic. Had it been allowed to happen organically – it would have been more fluid. This is much about the Sikhs and some discussion about Kashmir… But I haven’t seen anyone touch on the ethnic groups of the Northeast who are not happy at all and live under martial law.

    • Replies: @Meena
    @showmethereal

    "This is much about the Sikhs and some discussion about Kashmir… But I haven’t seen anyone touch on the ethnic groups of the Northeast who are not happy at all and live under martial law”

    North East India is still undergoing the slow colonization from the concept of Aryabhatta and from its forced imposition - that is slow destruction of local culture ,destruction of identity around primitive religious -social -political existence and replacement by military -business- financial aspect of the Hinduism .
    But having no advocate - Sikhs have Christian have, Muslim have and Buddhist have.They have no one .Even the neoconverted Christian enjoy only some support from certain obscure powerless quarter of the Christian religion.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wielgus

  106. @catchastar
    @Kent Nationalist

    What, this was news to you? A blind dolt could have given that estimate after five minutes of scrolling this site. Most articles here run on a theme of:

    China = good
    America = bad, and under Jewish control
    All western allies of America = weak, bad, suspect, shady or evil
    Russia = basically good, but also grey sometimes, weak sometimes but the wily bear, but also squatting on *ancient Chinee lands* of far east, so maybe a dangerous opponent?
    Third world = dangerous and overcrowded, dystopian, filthy, hellholes galore, no hope, no future, no food, imminent approaching dysentry, famine and death
    Africa = The Heart of Darkness, but also loaded with minerals and dangerous crocs. Always on verge of returning to the jungle, or maybe already there and no hope of emerging again unless White Man or Chinee Man give direction?
    White Nationalists = good, but also stupid, but also noble and of high standards or something
    India = all bad, all evil, all the time, also see *third world
    Muslims = basically medieval but also golden hearted and in dire need of re-education, which the Chinese leadership has so thoughtfully provided to the Uighurs. Infinitely scaleable (on demand?) across the Middle East when the time is right
    Iranians = Not Arabs, a type of White (WN's may disagree), but also clever and dangerous, bad foes and good partners, always under seige, true natural leaders of the Middle East, very much PUT UPON
    Arabs = slippery characters, in cahoots with Israelis, but also good and simple and long-suffering?
    EU (as a stand-in for all europeans) = under mortal attack from Muslim hordes and also long suffering (for reasons unknown), under some kind of pagan revival but also the true inheritors of the Church, reason to fear Russia and do, reason to hare British and do.
    British = perfidious Albion, once again pirates of the high seas. Ancient, vicious, clever, wicked and morally bankrupt and also under Jewish mind control.
    Blacks (as a theme) = sub human, low iq, low everything, overly sexual
    IQ = lack thereof of the many races

    I may have missed some highlights.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Showmethereal, @AaronB, @Europe Europa, @Daniel Chieh

    What, this was news to you? A blind dolt could have given that estimate after five minutes of scrolling this site. Most articles here run on a theme of:
    China = good
    America = bad, and under Jewish control…
    I may have missed some highlights.

    …continued.
    Nearly every article here is written from the Chinese point of view, including much written by the most unsubtle Pepe Escobar and others whose names don’t stand out. This includes geographical boundaries, ocean rights, political maneuvers, culture, history, leadership, human rights, iq, economy and other topics that escape me for now. Any criticisms are of the usual suspects as well, who are China’s foes in some way or other. The bias of each article also depends on what the Chinese bias is towards that topic as well.

    It is astonishing that anyone would be surprised by this. It’s plain as day. I can only imagine this comes out of the glorious leader’s perma-pr fund. Cuz there’s no free lunch!

    So…which is it? Are the Jews and Chinese in cahoots after all?

  107. @catchastar
    @Kent Nationalist

    What, this was news to you? A blind dolt could have given that estimate after five minutes of scrolling this site. Most articles here run on a theme of:

    China = good
    America = bad, and under Jewish control
    All western allies of America = weak, bad, suspect, shady or evil
    Russia = basically good, but also grey sometimes, weak sometimes but the wily bear, but also squatting on *ancient Chinee lands* of far east, so maybe a dangerous opponent?
    Third world = dangerous and overcrowded, dystopian, filthy, hellholes galore, no hope, no future, no food, imminent approaching dysentry, famine and death
    Africa = The Heart of Darkness, but also loaded with minerals and dangerous crocs. Always on verge of returning to the jungle, or maybe already there and no hope of emerging again unless White Man or Chinee Man give direction?
    White Nationalists = good, but also stupid, but also noble and of high standards or something
    India = all bad, all evil, all the time, also see *third world
    Muslims = basically medieval but also golden hearted and in dire need of re-education, which the Chinese leadership has so thoughtfully provided to the Uighurs. Infinitely scaleable (on demand?) across the Middle East when the time is right
    Iranians = Not Arabs, a type of White (WN's may disagree), but also clever and dangerous, bad foes and good partners, always under seige, true natural leaders of the Middle East, very much PUT UPON
    Arabs = slippery characters, in cahoots with Israelis, but also good and simple and long-suffering?
    EU (as a stand-in for all europeans) = under mortal attack from Muslim hordes and also long suffering (for reasons unknown), under some kind of pagan revival but also the true inheritors of the Church, reason to fear Russia and do, reason to hare British and do.
    British = perfidious Albion, once again pirates of the high seas. Ancient, vicious, clever, wicked and morally bankrupt and also under Jewish mind control.
    Blacks (as a theme) = sub human, low iq, low everything, overly sexual
    IQ = lack thereof of the many races

    I may have missed some highlights.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Showmethereal, @AaronB, @Europe Europa, @Daniel Chieh

    Mayb you should stick to WION and its constant fake news. Your idea is plain nonsense. There are many racist and jingoist comments on anything to do with China on its site. This is called alternative news which means it gives an alternative view from what the mai stream media says which is mostly lies to keep the average person as an obedient sheep. With the exception of a couple of people – most of tye “pro Chinese” people in the comments sections are very articulate and fervent simply because they are tired of the western oriented media (which many Indians seem to love) and their constant folly.
    For aome reason- not just on this site – but many Indians are seething at China’s success. Dont blame China. When the British drew the fake border – i stead of when you got independence you sought to negotiate with China in good faith – you chose to continue the British mindset. Still after China beat you in a war and showed it could take the land back it voluntarily retreated so as not to bully you. Still no negotiations in good faith. Your government even let the CIA use your territory to destabilize Tibet and you still show no remorse. Yet you are upset at China for being friends with Pakistan…???? The same Pakistan that the west backed against you – but now you trip over yourselves to now please them and conveniently forget they supported your arch enemy?? Instead of being able to cogently argue those points – you all seem to default to the same position – all of India’s problems are because the evil Chinese want to take over the world.
    Fact is that prior to the British takeover of you all China and India were good neighbors for over a thousand years. Indians helped China develop Buddhism and brought insights into math and astronomy into China that helped China develop those arts. There was never any beef between the two. But since the British controlled you – India is of a different mind. Indians now seem to rage with envy that since 1980 – when both were on the same level – China has grown in every endeavor multiple times that of India. A few rocks in the Himalayas are not the cause of India falling behind… Nor is the nonsensical idea that Unz review is somehow controlled by Chinese. Those are sophomoric reasonings.

    Many Chinese farmers are very hapoy now because there are now trains connecting their remote villages to cities where farmers are subsidized with cheap tickets to take the trains to the cities to sell their goods. They go in the morning and return in the evening with money in their pocket. There are also good mobile phone and internet infrastructure in those remote villages which allows some to engage in e-commerce without leaving the villages. If India himbled itself and stopped foolishly trying to fight China over rocks – China could have helped India to help develop the rural areas in a similar manner so there wouldnt be hundreds of millions of angry farmers at proposed reforms. But no – you all dont see it. Seething in jealousy is not healthy

    • Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Showmethereal

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/George_Nathaniel_Curzon%2C_Marquess_Curzon_of_Kedleston_by_John_Cooke.jpg/800px-George_Nathaniel_Curzon%2C_Marquess_Curzon_of_Kedleston_by_John_Cooke.jpg

    Lord Curzon (Viceroy of India between 1899 and 1905) writes in The Place of India In The Empire


    It is obvious, indeed, that the master of India must, under modern conditions, be the greatest power in the Asiatic Continent, and therefore, it may be added, in the world. The central position of India, its magnificent resources, its teeming multitude of men, its great trading harbours,its reserve of military strength, supplying an army always in a high state of efficiency and capable of being hurled at a moment’s notice upon any point either of Asia or Africa—all these are assets of precious value. On the west, India must exercise a predominant influence over the destinies of Persia and Afghanistan ; on the north it can veto any rival in Tibet ; on the north-east and east it can exert great pressure upon China, and is one of the guardians of the autonomous existence of Siam. On the high sees it commands the routes to Australia and to the China Seas. Before any of these extensions had been achieved, the supreme value of India as the centre and secret of Imperial dominion was apprehended by the eagle-eye of Napoleon. It was the remark of De Tocqueville that the conquest and government of India were really the achievements that had given to England her place in the eyes of the world.
     
    Perhaps these hegemonic fantasies were inherited by the foreign policy elite of independent India from the British?

    Replies: @Showmethereal

  108. @Yevardian
    @AltanBakshi

    China has spent far more time as a united kingdom (more often than not) than the Indian subcontinent, not to mention greater cultural and ethno-linguistic unity. All of those pan-Indian Empires were relatively ephemeral as well.

    Replies: @catchastar, @showmethereal, @AltanBakshi

    I mostly agree with you, but the heartland of India, Indo-Gangetic plain, where majority of people live, has often been united, more often than not in the past thousand years. It also must be remembered that PRC is first Han led regime of China with so vast borders. Han nationalists differ and claim that borders of Tang or Ming were as, or almost as vast, but thats bullshit, based on honorary titles and offices given to barbarian leaders, by same logic Eastern Romans had control over Gothic kingdoms. At least Germanic barbarians were happy to receive titles of rex and patricius from the Roman emperor, did that make them part of the Byzantine empire? Hell no!

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @sher singh
    @AltanBakshi

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnXgh5BbWM4

    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/791104449971224606/804345101807386665/Khalistan_Map.png?width=1182&height=665

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Kent Nationalist

  109. @Showmethereal
    @catchastar

    Mayb you should stick to WION and its constant fake news. Your idea is plain nonsense. There are many racist and jingoist comments on anything to do with China on its site. This is called alternative news which means it gives an alternative view from what the mai stream media says which is mostly lies to keep the average person as an obedient sheep. With the exception of a couple of people - most of tye "pro Chinese" people in the comments sections are very articulate and fervent simply because they are tired of the western oriented media (which many Indians seem to love) and their constant folly.
    For aome reason- not just on this site - but many Indians are seething at China's success. Dont blame China. When the British drew the fake border - i stead of when you got independence you sought to negotiate with China in good faith - you chose to continue the British mindset. Still after China beat you in a war and showed it could take the land back it voluntarily retreated so as not to bully you. Still no negotiations in good faith. Your government even let the CIA use your territory to destabilize Tibet and you still show no remorse. Yet you are upset at China for being friends with Pakistan...???? The same Pakistan that the west backed against you - but now you trip over yourselves to now please them and conveniently forget they supported your arch enemy?? Instead of being able to cogently argue those points - you all seem to default to the same position - all of India's problems are because the evil Chinese want to take over the world.
    Fact is that prior to the British takeover of you all China and India were good neighbors for over a thousand years. Indians helped China develop Buddhism and brought insights into math and astronomy into China that helped China develop those arts. There was never any beef between the two. But since the British controlled you - India is of a different mind. Indians now seem to rage with envy that since 1980 - when both were on the same level - China has grown in every endeavor multiple times that of India. A few rocks in the Himalayas are not the cause of India falling behind... Nor is the nonsensical idea that Unz review is somehow controlled by Chinese. Those are sophomoric reasonings.

    Many Chinese farmers are very hapoy now because there are now trains connecting their remote villages to cities where farmers are subsidized with cheap tickets to take the trains to the cities to sell their goods. They go in the morning and return in the evening with money in their pocket. There are also good mobile phone and internet infrastructure in those remote villages which allows some to engage in e-commerce without leaving the villages. If India himbled itself and stopped foolishly trying to fight China over rocks - China could have helped India to help develop the rural areas in a similar manner so there wouldnt be hundreds of millions of angry farmers at proposed reforms. But no - you all dont see it. Seething in jealousy is not healthy

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Lord Curzon (Viceroy of India between 1899 and 1905) writes in The Place of India In The Empire

    It is obvious, indeed, that the master of India must, under modern conditions, be the greatest power in the Asiatic Continent, and therefore, it may be added, in the world. The central position of India, its magnificent resources, its teeming multitude of men, its great trading harbours,its reserve of military strength, supplying an army always in a high state of efficiency and capable of being hurled at a moment’s notice upon any point either of Asia or Africa—all these are assets of precious value. On the west, India must exercise a predominant influence over the destinies of Persia and Afghanistan ; on the north it can veto any rival in Tibet ; on the north-east and east it can exert great pressure upon China, and is one of the guardians of the autonomous existence of Siam. On the high sees it commands the routes to Australia and to the China Seas. Before any of these extensions had been achieved, the supreme value of India as the centre and secret of Imperial dominion was apprehended by the eagle-eye of Napoleon. It was the remark of De Tocqueville that the conquest and government of India were really the achievements that had given to England her place in the eyes of the world.

    Perhaps these hegemonic fantasies were inherited by the foreign policy elite of independent India from the British?

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    I wasnt familiar with that particular writing but thanks. And yes it is absolutely an inherited mindset - even regarding Afghanistan. Search the Indian press and see what they say their role should be in shaping Afghanistan. It boggles the mind that they really believe they are the British Raj reincarnated.
    Their disdain and hatred of Chinese is inherited from the Brits. Prior to colonization there was no such enmity. But when the Brits sent spies to steal tea and its process - where they they plant it and start their i dustry? India. Where did the Brits start to plant the opium they forced upon China? India... When the westerners invaded and took "concessions" of China they also used Indians (Indians gleefully fought for the empire in every war up to WW2). In places like Shanghai there were Indian soldiers that could be seen patrolling and even directing traffic in areas Chinese were even banned from or had restrictions. So this gzve them a mindset of superiority over Chinese which never existed before. And I think that is where the intense animosity REALLY comes from... not some silly rocks on land that is almost uninhabitable. They cant understand how China has achieved what it has when they feel they are supposed to be superior.. Especially now that they have "democracy" .... They forget the history on the other side of the Himalayas

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  110. @AltanBakshi
    @Yevardian

    I mostly agree with you, but the heartland of India, Indo-Gangetic plain, where majority of people live, has often been united, more often than not in the past thousand years. It also must be remembered that PRC is first Han led regime of China with so vast borders. Han nationalists differ and claim that borders of Tang or Ming were as, or almost as vast, but thats bullshit, based on honorary titles and offices given to barbarian leaders, by same logic Eastern Romans had control over Gothic kingdoms. At least Germanic barbarians were happy to receive titles of rex and patricius from the Roman emperor, did that make them part of the Byzantine empire? Hell no!

    Replies: @sher singh

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @sher singh

    One day my friend, one day...

    Revere the Guru!

    https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Nanak_in_Sikkim,_Ladakh_and_Tibet

    , @Kent Nationalist
    @sher singh

    Same energy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sGCagr4sOA

  111. @sher singh
    @AltanBakshi

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnXgh5BbWM4

    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/791104449971224606/804345101807386665/Khalistan_Map.png?width=1182&height=665

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Kent Nationalist

    One day my friend, one day…

    Revere the Guru!

    https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Nanak_in_Sikkim,_Ladakh_and_Tibet

  112. @sher singh
    @AltanBakshi

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnXgh5BbWM4

    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/791104449971224606/804345101807386665/Khalistan_Map.png?width=1182&height=665

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Kent Nationalist

    Same energy

  113. @catchastar
    @barr

    Oh BOY, there is no such thing as a Hindu mosque. Just like there are no Muslim temples. But I guess they didn't teach you that in the madrassa. I'm asking again, would Saudis permit a Hindu temple in Mecca or Medina, on the exact spot that Muslims revere as holy? Hindus have been living and working in Saudi for decades at least. Why not?

    Don't worry, I'm composing my next Purana in my spare time. But you won't be updating that trash book Koran anytime right? Because it's "perfect" revealed truth from Allah, the messianic god? No updations needed in your 7th century worldview anytime soon.

    Perhaps the Muslim Brotherhoods ought to be sanctioned. It's simple - you asked for a lebensraum and got it. Now go live there.

    Replies: @barr

    Neo Saudi shouldn’t permit any Hindu Temple in Mecca or Medina or in any Saudi land. Saudi should permit church anywhere then Saudi Christians lives. and Said Christian lives and then it can move towards the secularism scale . Expatriates until recently were not paying taxes to Saudi .

    Chew on this information , chew on this legal aspect and imbibe the idea because your defects go beyond simple blind spot for Hinduvatta and for RSS-BJP .

    . Concept and adherence to secularism doesn’t demand that Saudi allows building of temples or Akhra of Goraknath or Yogi or opening of naked camp because of the fact taht Hinduism is neither native nor traditionally related to Saudi by any stretch of imagination. Once Hindus expatriates become citizen ,it should.

    Indian sophistry is unmistakably obvious here -in the misplaced ethical- political- legal cant of the RSS BJP votaries – why Saudi doe not have temple ? Because RSS wants the world accept expulsion of muslim destruction of shrines masjid and homes and persecution of muslims as normal because Saudi doesn’t allow a Hindu temple anywhere in the kingdom . Does Saudi mob come to Hindu’s houses to destroy the Hindu lives or properties or the religious books while police simply stand by ?

    Hindus have temples and enjoy freedom of religion in Bangladesh Malaysia Indonesia Oman Brunei Turkey Bahrain, Sierra Leone ,Nigeria Lebanon, and even in Uzbekistan – many of these places where Hindus live and conduct business as expatriates.

    Before asking all muslim leave India, India should return J-K, parts of Gujrat and Hyderabad and surrounding areas to Muslims and those areas not still handed over to Bangladesh .

  114. @showmethereal
    @Yevardian

    I agree that China has spent far more time as a united kingdom - but the part about ethno linguistic unity is not true. Mandarin only became the official language in recent history. Reason being is China has often come apart because of ethnic and regional conflagrations. Even among the Han people. Mandarin was NEVER the common language. In reality the ROC when formed in 1911 chose Mandarin in a way that was continuity with the Manchu led Qing... Mandarin was the prominent language of the power base around Beijing - which coincidentally was originally made the capital of China by the Mongols. China has never been monolithic.. They just did a better job of managing the different groups throughout history and absorbing "foreign" tribes who invaded and took them over. Case in point about absorption... When westerners started invading in the Manchu led Qing era - the reformers in the early 1900's wanted to "kick out the foreigners". The Manchu viewed the Europeans (including Americans) as Japanese as the foreigners now. When the Nationalists took over in 1911 and restored Han rule - they called themselves nationalists to also get rid of foreigners (which is why it's a shame that the "Nationalists" in Taiwan now are so deferential to the US and Japan). But the Manchu were not counted as "foreigners" anymore by the Nationalists. They were included among the 5 major "races" of the new Republic (along with Mongols - Han - Tibetan - Hui (which really counted all Muslims)

    India's issue in my view lies in the fact that they are an imposed British construct. It wasn't organic. Had it been allowed to happen organically - it would have been more fluid. This is much about the Sikhs and some discussion about Kashmir... But I haven't seen anyone touch on the ethnic groups of the Northeast who are not happy at all and live under martial law.

    Replies: @Meena

    “This is much about the Sikhs and some discussion about Kashmir… But I haven’t seen anyone touch on the ethnic groups of the Northeast who are not happy at all and live under martial law”

    North East India is still undergoing the slow colonization from the concept of Aryabhatta and from its forced imposition – that is slow destruction of local culture ,destruction of identity around primitive religious -social -political existence and replacement by military -business- financial aspect of the Hinduism .
    But having no advocate – Sikhs have Christian have, Muslim have and Buddhist have.They have no one .Even the neoconverted Christian enjoy only some support from certain obscure powerless quarter of the Christian religion.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Meena

    Majority of people of Assam, Manipur and Tripura are Hindus or Muslims, theres lots of Buddhists in Arunachal, Sikkim and Mizoram. Why they shouldnt be a part of India? The rest are evangelical Christians, and therefore cultists, sadly India does not treat members of such heterodox cults in same way as PRC. They have no place in Asia, not now or ever. Such people arent even genuine Christians, but something else, just like mormons. Maybe it would have been better if British would have left those tribal areas to Burma. Burmese really know how to deal with such people.

    Replies: @Meena, @CCG

    , @Wielgus
    @Meena

    Are you referring to the Assamese?

    Replies: @CCG

  115. @Meena
    @showmethereal

    "This is much about the Sikhs and some discussion about Kashmir… But I haven’t seen anyone touch on the ethnic groups of the Northeast who are not happy at all and live under martial law”

    North East India is still undergoing the slow colonization from the concept of Aryabhatta and from its forced imposition - that is slow destruction of local culture ,destruction of identity around primitive religious -social -political existence and replacement by military -business- financial aspect of the Hinduism .
    But having no advocate - Sikhs have Christian have, Muslim have and Buddhist have.They have no one .Even the neoconverted Christian enjoy only some support from certain obscure powerless quarter of the Christian religion.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wielgus

    Majority of people of Assam, Manipur and Tripura are Hindus or Muslims, theres lots of Buddhists in Arunachal, Sikkim and Mizoram. Why they shouldnt be a part of India? The rest are evangelical Christians, and therefore cultists, sadly India does not treat members of such heterodox cults in same way as PRC. They have no place in Asia, not now or ever. Such people arent even genuine Christians, but something else, just like mormons. Maybe it would have been better if British would have left those tribal areas to Burma. Burmese really know how to deal with such people.

    • Replies: @Meena
    @AltanBakshi

    Maybe it would have been better if British would have left those tribal areas to Burma. Burmese really know how to deal with such people.”

    At any moment Mynama is hosts to anywhere 20-30 ethnic struggles in north ,east, south and west .

    Arkan Army,Karen Army ,Kachin Army .Shan National Army ,Moong Tai Army , now dormant Wa National Army or Buddhist Karen Army have over past many decades informed the realities of the racial-socio political discrimination nation and racism in Myanmar . These armies are either Christian or Buddhist .It is like Wahabi or HInduvatta subscribing to certain type of very narrow Buddhism . Other have no place in it . The people of Mizoram Nagaland or Arunachal Pradesh will be simply exterminated or expelled by this Myanmar .

    , @CCG
    @AltanBakshi

    85% of Mizoram residents are mainstream Protestant (Presbyterian majority, Baptist minority). They converted to Christianity during British rule, have over 90% literacy (well above the national average), and are serious Christians. The 8.5% Buddhist population is composed entirely of the Chakma tribe that moved to India as refugees from Bangladesh in the 1960s.

    In addition, almost all of ethnic Sikkimese are Buddhist. Mass immigration of Nepali Hindus led to Sikkim's native Buddhist majority turning into a minority. The Nepali Hindus played the leading role in the overthrow of the Sikkimese King and Sikkim's incorporation into India, leading to more Hindu immigration from other states in India.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  116. @catchastar
    @Kent Nationalist

    What, this was news to you? A blind dolt could have given that estimate after five minutes of scrolling this site. Most articles here run on a theme of:

    China = good
    America = bad, and under Jewish control
    All western allies of America = weak, bad, suspect, shady or evil
    Russia = basically good, but also grey sometimes, weak sometimes but the wily bear, but also squatting on *ancient Chinee lands* of far east, so maybe a dangerous opponent?
    Third world = dangerous and overcrowded, dystopian, filthy, hellholes galore, no hope, no future, no food, imminent approaching dysentry, famine and death
    Africa = The Heart of Darkness, but also loaded with minerals and dangerous crocs. Always on verge of returning to the jungle, or maybe already there and no hope of emerging again unless White Man or Chinee Man give direction?
    White Nationalists = good, but also stupid, but also noble and of high standards or something
    India = all bad, all evil, all the time, also see *third world
    Muslims = basically medieval but also golden hearted and in dire need of re-education, which the Chinese leadership has so thoughtfully provided to the Uighurs. Infinitely scaleable (on demand?) across the Middle East when the time is right
    Iranians = Not Arabs, a type of White (WN's may disagree), but also clever and dangerous, bad foes and good partners, always under seige, true natural leaders of the Middle East, very much PUT UPON
    Arabs = slippery characters, in cahoots with Israelis, but also good and simple and long-suffering?
    EU (as a stand-in for all europeans) = under mortal attack from Muslim hordes and also long suffering (for reasons unknown), under some kind of pagan revival but also the true inheritors of the Church, reason to fear Russia and do, reason to hare British and do.
    British = perfidious Albion, once again pirates of the high seas. Ancient, vicious, clever, wicked and morally bankrupt and also under Jewish mind control.
    Blacks (as a theme) = sub human, low iq, low everything, overly sexual
    IQ = lack thereof of the many races

    I may have missed some highlights.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Showmethereal, @AaronB, @Europe Europa, @Daniel Chieh

    I would not be at all surprised if this site was at least partially funded by the CCP.

    And if it isn’t, it certainly should be.

    This isn’t a free speech site or a site of general intellectual curiosity- its a site specifically for opinions that are “excluded from the mainstream.”

    In other words its “propaganda for the other side”. Generally very obvious and ham-fisted. Ham-fisted propaganda does not get more crude and clumsy than the main writer on China here, I forget his name, that guy who lives in Thailand, or than Ron’s American Pravda series.

    And it isn’t a site that welcomes genuinely non-mainstream opinions – opinions that genuinely question the implicit assumptions underlying the shared political discourse from both sides, or the shared implicit assumptions that determine the way society is organized and how one should live, are unpopular and not always published, and are beyond the imagination of most writers or commenters here, who respond with hostility to anything that genuinely deviates from the norm.

    This site is best described as a counter-mainstream site – a site for the purpose of propagating one side in a political debate without questioning the assumptions that frame the debate.

    Occasionally, despite this, something interesting that breaks out from the reigning paradigm gets said, but its rare.

    • Replies: @catchastar
    @AaronB


    In other words its “propaganda for the other side”. Generally very obvious and ham-fisted
     
    Well yes, that makes sense. I am not against the concept of it per se. But they must pay their writers very little, and the troll army by the word, because they apply the copy and paste function most liberally. Also some blatant untruths that can be quite hurtful. :)

    Some of the comment trolls seem very organized so I imagine such concerted attacks are definitely 'sponsored', though by whom is open to conjecture.

    It can be interesting but also a hall of mirrors. I wonder if people who throng such sites get lost in the noise and the pov they are promoting (aka disinformation). Do they go mad holding so many opposing points of view? The psychology is fascinating.
  117. There are some good authors here, Karlin and Sailer are pretty good in my opinion, they collate a lot of interesting information, for this Audacious Epigone’s blog is also good. I think Andrew Joyce’s articles are also very insightful, although they do attract rabid Jew-haters in the comments.

    The American Pravda is very good food for thought, in fact most of the books Ron cites in those articles are very much mainstream. The good thing about this website is its free and open comments system, especially since many big news sites have now disabled commenting altogether and in the remainder of cases exert a very heavy-handed form of moderation.

    I think you too must see some appeal, especially as you have racked up almost 1 million words in commenting.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell


    There are some good authors here, Karlin and Sailer are pretty good in my opinion, they collate a lot of interesting information, for this Audacious Epigone’s blog is also good.
     

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmo7ulcol2kNc7S5KKx6EGlonzk1JG4uBUyw&usqp.jpg

    Many disagree with his politics, but the man is a truly gifted writer.
    , @AaronB
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Sure, I see some value to this site - I just see it for what it is, a blatant propaganda site. That doesn't make it particularly unusual today nor does it means it has no value. In fact, the very scurrilous nature of this site, its low-brow character, its lack of standards and its indulgence in irrationality and a kind of cantankerous misanthropy are what make it fascinating.

    There is real pleasure in reading the insane anti-Semitic screeds, or the absurd promotion of totalitarian China as the antidote to totalitarian America, and I am also fascinated by the right-wing obsession with increasing fertility, with the concept of a "hostile elite" - this is a rich field for psychological mining.

    What this site is not, is a site that imagines fresh alternatives that challenge the reigning paradigms. This site always takes one side in a debate framed by old, outdated assumptions - finance or manufacturing economy? China or the US? Jews or Muslims? - and then it vigorously propogandizes for that side in a very clumsy, ham-fisted way, like Godfree Robert's (for Pete's sake), or Ron's egregious misrepresentions of Judaism.

    It seems to be beyond the capacity of anyone to imagine an alternative that transcends the "given" alternatives - the "inherited stupidities", so to speak. Still, I cant fault this site for not being what it is not. It is what it is.

    , @Showmethereal
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    The big media closes or censors comments because they have to control thought. I see many completely asinine comments on this site. I also see many racist comments too. But I actual thi ks its a breath of fresh air because you can actively rebut whomever you want. And i actually appreciate knowing how people REALLY think - irrespective pf how hateful - or even stupid it may be.

    There are some writers columns that I think are trash - but I fully respect Mr Unz for letting them post. If I wanted watered down content I could stick to the MSM

    Replies: @AaronB

  118. @AltanBakshi
    @Meena

    Majority of people of Assam, Manipur and Tripura are Hindus or Muslims, theres lots of Buddhists in Arunachal, Sikkim and Mizoram. Why they shouldnt be a part of India? The rest are evangelical Christians, and therefore cultists, sadly India does not treat members of such heterodox cults in same way as PRC. They have no place in Asia, not now or ever. Such people arent even genuine Christians, but something else, just like mormons. Maybe it would have been better if British would have left those tribal areas to Burma. Burmese really know how to deal with such people.

    Replies: @Meena, @CCG

    Maybe it would have been better if British would have left those tribal areas to Burma. Burmese really know how to deal with such people.”

    At any moment Mynama is hosts to anywhere 20-30 ethnic struggles in north ,east, south and west .

    Arkan Army,Karen Army ,Kachin Army .Shan National Army ,Moong Tai Army , now dormant Wa National Army or Buddhist Karen Army have over past many decades informed the realities of the racial-socio political discrimination nation and racism in Myanmar . These armies are either Christian or Buddhist .It is like Wahabi or HInduvatta subscribing to certain type of very narrow Buddhism . Other have no place in it . The people of Mizoram Nagaland or Arunachal Pradesh will be simply exterminated or expelled by this Myanmar .

  119. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Another misinformed is joining the bandwagaon of the chariot of Advani barreling down Hindu cowbelt . There is total destruction of Muslimin Rakhine state and a poltical mind of RSS variety comes and tells that buddhist shrines have been attacked hiding behind smoke of soundbites .

    A misguided and educated by RSS 's ideloolgy and subscribes to the views that indonesian revolt and subsequent massacre of communists in 60 s fully orchestrated by CIA to thawrt false alarm of communism was Islamic in origin and shape or was product of muslim communalism.

    He like other half educated thinks muslim are privileged class because they still have personal laws .
    Jewish personal and famiky court still operate in USA and Canada listening and advising on issues of divorce custody and inheritance .

    These creatures of propaganda of RSS BJP think that killing muslim, creating hatred , erecting barriers to safety ,securuty ,job,education,and blaming them for what happened centuries ago and for partition are the small price for allwing them to live in India .

    They think that thise lies cant be challenged and corrected because majority Indians say so and majority Indians think so. The RSS mafia thinks that the best way to capture vote for BJP is to tell the Hindus that muslims would swamp India again because they have personal laws in India's democracy and is the laws are tolerated in Indian secularism .

    Indian democracy is the best horse trading shit show on earth now. Indian secularisn since 1987 has been what RSS thinks secularism should be based on -- destroy masjid, ,unilaterly change Kashmir status, lie about seizing Jammu Kashmir , suppress facts about expelking muskim from Jammu, seize Hyderabad and Junagarh and kill the muslims if they protest against Citzenship.

    When reminded and challenged , they just stick to the mantra-- muslims are killing muslims everywhere and muslims killled millions Hindus in times of Pathan and Mughal rule.

    These misguided dont know that their own history about killing Biddhist ,Jains and indigenous and destroying the non - Hindu temples and even gloating and glorifying the murder and massacre in their own religiius books .

    Reaching and digging in their back passgae and keister ,the RSS produce facts. One of the facts that they churn out is that Hindus have declined in Pakistan . But their own data as documented by India Today exposes the lies. But lying for RSS BJP thug is par the course. That lies then enter into their history books which would be altered again in future by the future descendents of and placeholders of fanatic RSS BJP organization if situation demands .

    In that rule of laws, those Hindus who organized and managed the burning of the Godhra train incident have still not been punished . Not those RSS cadre who then spread the rumors of muslim doing it. and later influenced the judiciary are still free . They then with help of Modi and his henchmen started killing muslims in Gujrat. They are still free.

    Whats their answers when polinted out these masscares and many others before and after ?The answer that muslim rulers killed us 500 yrs ago or the answer is muslims are always complining .

    When asked about Jammu massacre or Hyderabad killing in 1947-1948, these corrupted minds tell us - oh! thats so long ago, conveniently forgetting that they still remeber what did not happen 500 yrs ago (the unexamined lies of killing and religiously oriented violnce against Hindu subjects or temples ) .
    These lies are the building block of the Hindu's new identuty mandated by RSS .

    Replies: @catchastar, @catchastar, @AltanBakshi

    Fool, Im not even Indian, and I have never ever read any RSS propaganda.

    You cant even compare sins of Muslims with the people of Dharmic religions, Muslim violence is both historical and contemporary phenomena. Just one hundred years ago they forcefully converted Nuristanis in Afghanistan, last followers of original Vedic religion, just few years ago they tried repeatedly huge terrorist attacks in our most holy place.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_Gaya_bombings

    Thankfully Buddhas power protected us, and no one died.

    Everytime when Muslim cries about violence, its nothing compared to what you have done to us, or what Arabs did your ancestors, if you are a Pakistani. The fate that you suffered is worse than death.

    Both Junagarh and Hyderabad had Hindu supermajority, why they should have gone to Pakistan?

    • Replies: @Barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Hey Moron, stop lying Start providing evidence
    Otherwise learn to shut up .
    Dont quote Wikipedia
    Learn from the scholars if you want to get any understanding of the past .


    Now while we are talking of the recent events , stay focused on the recent events .

    Anything good about Hinduvatta anywhere ?

    I heard those bastards go to Israel and talk of terrorism . I heard that they even went to Nepal , Myanmar and Sri Lanka to ratchet up communal tension .

    Have I educated you enough how to argue , find the inconsistency and correct the deficit in your knowledge ?


    Didn’t I tell you before that the typical Hindu response when accused of violence and arson and massacre is: Muslim killed us before ,in 16 the century . Now sometimes Amit Shah or Yogi will say :”we are taking revenge “ of the past .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Vishnugupta

  120. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    There are some good authors here, Karlin and Sailer are pretty good in my opinion, they collate a lot of interesting information, for this Audacious Epigone's blog is also good. I think Andrew Joyce's articles are also very insightful, although they do attract rabid Jew-haters in the comments.

    The American Pravda is very good food for thought, in fact most of the books Ron cites in those articles are very much mainstream. The good thing about this website is its free and open comments system, especially since many big news sites have now disabled commenting altogether and in the remainder of cases exert a very heavy-handed form of moderation.

    I think you too must see some appeal, especially as you have racked up almost 1 million words in commenting.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @AaronB, @Showmethereal

    There are some good authors here, Karlin and Sailer are pretty good in my opinion, they collate a lot of interesting information, for this Audacious Epigone’s blog is also good.

    [MORE]

    Many disagree with his politics, but the man is a truly gifted writer.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
  121. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    There are some good authors here, Karlin and Sailer are pretty good in my opinion, they collate a lot of interesting information, for this Audacious Epigone's blog is also good. I think Andrew Joyce's articles are also very insightful, although they do attract rabid Jew-haters in the comments.

    The American Pravda is very good food for thought, in fact most of the books Ron cites in those articles are very much mainstream. The good thing about this website is its free and open comments system, especially since many big news sites have now disabled commenting altogether and in the remainder of cases exert a very heavy-handed form of moderation.

    I think you too must see some appeal, especially as you have racked up almost 1 million words in commenting.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @AaronB, @Showmethereal

    Sure, I see some value to this site – I just see it for what it is, a blatant propaganda site. That doesn’t make it particularly unusual today nor does it means it has no value. In fact, the very scurrilous nature of this site, its low-brow character, its lack of standards and its indulgence in irrationality and a kind of cantankerous misanthropy are what make it fascinating.

    There is real pleasure in reading the insane anti-Semitic screeds, or the absurd promotion of totalitarian China as the antidote to totalitarian America, and I am also fascinated by the right-wing obsession with increasing fertility, with the concept of a “hostile elite” – this is a rich field for psychological mining.

    What this site is not, is a site that imagines fresh alternatives that challenge the reigning paradigms. This site always takes one side in a debate framed by old, outdated assumptions – finance or manufacturing economy? China or the US? Jews or Muslims? – and then it vigorously propogandizes for that side in a very clumsy, ham-fisted way, like Godfree Robert’s (for Pete’s sake), or Ron’s egregious misrepresentions of Judaism.

    It seems to be beyond the capacity of anyone to imagine an alternative that transcends the “given” alternatives – the “inherited stupidities”, so to speak. Still, I cant fault this site for not being what it is not. It is what it is.

  122. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Showmethereal

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/George_Nathaniel_Curzon%2C_Marquess_Curzon_of_Kedleston_by_John_Cooke.jpg/800px-George_Nathaniel_Curzon%2C_Marquess_Curzon_of_Kedleston_by_John_Cooke.jpg

    Lord Curzon (Viceroy of India between 1899 and 1905) writes in The Place of India In The Empire


    It is obvious, indeed, that the master of India must, under modern conditions, be the greatest power in the Asiatic Continent, and therefore, it may be added, in the world. The central position of India, its magnificent resources, its teeming multitude of men, its great trading harbours,its reserve of military strength, supplying an army always in a high state of efficiency and capable of being hurled at a moment’s notice upon any point either of Asia or Africa—all these are assets of precious value. On the west, India must exercise a predominant influence over the destinies of Persia and Afghanistan ; on the north it can veto any rival in Tibet ; on the north-east and east it can exert great pressure upon China, and is one of the guardians of the autonomous existence of Siam. On the high sees it commands the routes to Australia and to the China Seas. Before any of these extensions had been achieved, the supreme value of India as the centre and secret of Imperial dominion was apprehended by the eagle-eye of Napoleon. It was the remark of De Tocqueville that the conquest and government of India were really the achievements that had given to England her place in the eyes of the world.
     
    Perhaps these hegemonic fantasies were inherited by the foreign policy elite of independent India from the British?

    Replies: @Showmethereal

    I wasnt familiar with that particular writing but thanks. And yes it is absolutely an inherited mindset – even regarding Afghanistan. Search the Indian press and see what they say their role should be in shaping Afghanistan. It boggles the mind that they really believe they are the British Raj reincarnated.
    Their disdain and hatred of Chinese is inherited from the Brits. Prior to colonization there was no such enmity. But when the Brits sent spies to steal tea and its process – where they they plant it and start their i dustry? India. Where did the Brits start to plant the opium they forced upon China? India… When the westerners invaded and took “concessions” of China they also used Indians (Indians gleefully fought for the empire in every war up to WW2). In places like Shanghai there were Indian soldiers that could be seen patrolling and even directing traffic in areas Chinese were even banned from or had restrictions. So this gzve them a mindset of superiority over Chinese which never existed before. And I think that is where the intense animosity REALLY comes from… not some silly rocks on land that is almost uninhabitable. They cant understand how China has achieved what it has when they feel they are supposed to be superior.. Especially now that they have “democracy” …. They forget the history on the other side of the Himalayas

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Showmethereal

    The army of British Raj was quite small, you really should not use that as an argument, millions of Russians and Chinese helped or fought in the side of Germans and Japanese, as you probably know.

    The Chinese and Indians should be friends, and both civilizations have had historically extremely good relations, but its not like either of them have totally clean hands, or not at fault, if you get what I mean.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  123. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    There are some good authors here, Karlin and Sailer are pretty good in my opinion, they collate a lot of interesting information, for this Audacious Epigone's blog is also good. I think Andrew Joyce's articles are also very insightful, although they do attract rabid Jew-haters in the comments.

    The American Pravda is very good food for thought, in fact most of the books Ron cites in those articles are very much mainstream. The good thing about this website is its free and open comments system, especially since many big news sites have now disabled commenting altogether and in the remainder of cases exert a very heavy-handed form of moderation.

    I think you too must see some appeal, especially as you have racked up almost 1 million words in commenting.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @AaronB, @Showmethereal

    The big media closes or censors comments because they have to control thought. I see many completely asinine comments on this site. I also see many racist comments too. But I actual thi ks its a breath of fresh air because you can actively rebut whomever you want. And i actually appreciate knowing how people REALLY think – irrespective pf how hateful – or even stupid it may be.

    There are some writers columns that I think are trash – but I fully respect Mr Unz for letting them post. If I wanted watered down content I could stick to the MSM

    • Replies: @AaronB
    @Showmethereal

    Lol, my comments are partly censored. In fact you just published two comments while my comment #124 still languishes in moderation, perhaps to be let out of prison soon :)

    Audacious Epigine puts my comments in moderation for about 10 hours, effectively soft banning me. Ron also restricts me to 2 comments per hour, not the regular 3.

    Gilad Atzmon no longer publishes my comments, and Philip Giraldi frequently won't publish my comments.

    Tell me again how free and impartial the commenting here is :)

    Also, most commenters here support suppressing opinions they dislike. Many have expressed satisfaction on the restrictions put on me, and its extremely common to see people calling for commemters they dislike to be banned.

    And this is on a "dissident" website where for (cynical, strategic), reasons, "free speech" must be upheld as a value at least for appearances sake (all dissidents favor free speech until they can impose their opinions on others).

    Free speech is not a value held dear by most humans - most people truly want to impose their opinions on others by force.

    Humans need an imposed, unquestioned "social script" to feel safe and secure - it is only the rare intellectual and free thinker who genuinely enjoys the play of ideas. Ideas are disturbing and dangerous, and courage is rare. Most people prefer security. People who court danger are few.

    You should certainly enjoy the fact that the range of favored opinions on this site includes your own, and I certainly don't object to the cynical, strategic pretense of being champions of free speech that all dissidents must employ - I don't begrudge you that tactic - and I even admit that suppression here is for the time being less harsh than the mainstream, but we both know that if this place ever became the mainstream it would be a hideous tyranny.


    And i actually appreciate knowing how people REALLY think – irrespective pf how hateful – or even stupid it may be.

    There are some writers columns that I think are trash – but I fully respect Mr Unz for letting them post. If I wanted watered down content I could stick to the MSM
     
    Agree with this.
  124. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Fool, Im not even Indian, and I have never ever read any RSS propaganda.

    You cant even compare sins of Muslims with the people of Dharmic religions, Muslim violence is both historical and contemporary phenomena. Just one hundred years ago they forcefully converted Nuristanis in Afghanistan, last followers of original Vedic religion, just few years ago they tried repeatedly huge terrorist attacks in our most holy place.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_Gaya_bombings

    Thankfully Buddhas power protected us, and no one died.

    Everytime when Muslim cries about violence, its nothing compared to what you have done to us, or what Arabs did your ancestors, if you are a Pakistani. The fate that you suffered is worse than death.

    Both Junagarh and Hyderabad had Hindu supermajority, why they should have gone to Pakistan?

    Replies: @Barr

    Hey Moron, stop lying Start providing evidence
    Otherwise learn to shut up .
    Dont quote Wikipedia
    Learn from the scholars if you want to get any understanding of the past .

    Now while we are talking of the recent events , stay focused on the recent events .

    Anything good about Hinduvatta anywhere ?

    I heard those bastards go to Israel and talk of terrorism . I heard that they even went to Nepal , Myanmar and Sri Lanka to ratchet up communal tension .

    Have I educated you enough how to argue , find the inconsistency and correct the deficit in your knowledge ?

    Didn’t I tell you before that the typical Hindu response when accused of violence and arson and massacre is: Muslim killed us before ,in 16 the century . Now sometimes Amit Shah or Yogi will say :”we are taking revenge “ of the past .

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Barr


    Hey Moron, stop lying Start providing evidence
     
    I was in India in that year, and I have friends who were near those bombs.

    Anything good about Hinduvatta anywhere ?
     
    Even though our beliefs are different, we are brothers with Hindus, I know that I can trust them, but you? We know the answer...

    In 2012 I met Buddhist monks from Bangladesh, and they told me how hard the life is there for them, how much there is fear and violence. Buddhism there is 2500 years old, unlike Islam, which destroyed all our great Monastic Universities in Bengal, as both Tibetan and Indian historians tell us.

    https://cdn-japantimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/f-haripur-a-20171117.jpg

    https://c8.alamy.com/comp/B69D6B/stupa-1-or-great-stupa-damaged-buddha-statue-inside-the-stupa-premises-B69D6B.jpg

    Decapitated Buddha statues like these are everywhere on the subcontinent, you can deceive yourself, but in your heart you know who we can thank for such barbarity. Theres lots of them in Pakistan too...

    Replies: @barr

    , @Vishnugupta
    @Barr

    Facts about a certain arabian mental illness you insist of calling a ‘religion’.

    1. Founded by an illiterate(The only major religion founded by an illiterate)
    2. Founded by a SEX PERVERT (50+ year old getting it on with child was a sick perversion even in an age where child marriages were common)
    3. Divide the world into believers and unbelievers and feel it is the divine right of the believers to persecute non believers.
    4. Interesting ritual of pointing your backsides to the sky(Symbolising heaven ?) faces to the ground(Symbolising hell?) 5 times a day.
    5.Has problems and armed conflicts with all other religions on all continents. There is not a single non muslim city/country where the Muslim population is >5% and there are no problems/regular clashes.
    6.Wants to be understood and insists on being treated with kid gloves and special treatment(halal food,separate prayer rooms at airport etc etc) but insists on their inability to give equal rights to non believers on the ground that their holy book supposedly revealed to the illiterate pervert(reason for describing Mohammed as such is covered in points 2&3) prevents such treatment.
    7.The vast majority think it is appropriate to kill people for leaving their religion/cult.
    8.The vast majority believe in stoning/amputation as legitimate punishments in the 21st century
    9.The vast majority thinks blasphemy should be punished by death.Even the ”moderates” are campaigning against misuse of blasphemy laws not their repeal.
    10. Calls itself the religion of peace

    Replies: @barr

  125. @Showmethereal
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    The big media closes or censors comments because they have to control thought. I see many completely asinine comments on this site. I also see many racist comments too. But I actual thi ks its a breath of fresh air because you can actively rebut whomever you want. And i actually appreciate knowing how people REALLY think - irrespective pf how hateful - or even stupid it may be.

    There are some writers columns that I think are trash - but I fully respect Mr Unz for letting them post. If I wanted watered down content I could stick to the MSM

    Replies: @AaronB

    Lol, my comments are partly censored. In fact you just published two comments while my comment #124 still languishes in moderation, perhaps to be let out of prison soon 🙂

    Audacious Epigine puts my comments in moderation for about 10 hours, effectively soft banning me. Ron also restricts me to 2 comments per hour, not the regular 3.

    Gilad Atzmon no longer publishes my comments, and Philip Giraldi frequently won’t publish my comments.

    Tell me again how free and impartial the commenting here is 🙂

    Also, most commenters here support suppressing opinions they dislike. Many have expressed satisfaction on the restrictions put on me, and its extremely common to see people calling for commemters they dislike to be banned.

    And this is on a “dissident” website where for (cynical, strategic), reasons, “free speech” must be upheld as a value at least for appearances sake (all dissidents favor free speech until they can impose their opinions on others).

    Free speech is not a value held dear by most humans – most people truly want to impose their opinions on others by force.

    Humans need an imposed, unquestioned “social script” to feel safe and secure – it is only the rare intellectual and free thinker who genuinely enjoys the play of ideas. Ideas are disturbing and dangerous, and courage is rare. Most people prefer security. People who court danger are few.

    You should certainly enjoy the fact that the range of favored opinions on this site includes your own, and I certainly don’t object to the cynical, strategic pretense of being champions of free speech that all dissidents must employ – I don’t begrudge you that tactic – and I even admit that suppression here is for the time being less harsh than the mainstream, but we both know that if this place ever became the mainstream it would be a hideous tyranny.

    And i actually appreciate knowing how people REALLY think – irrespective pf how hateful – or even stupid it may be.

    There are some writers columns that I think are trash – but I fully respect Mr Unz for letting them post. If I wanted watered down content I could stick to the MSM

    Agree with this.

    • Agree: Lot
  126. @Meena
    @showmethereal

    "This is much about the Sikhs and some discussion about Kashmir… But I haven’t seen anyone touch on the ethnic groups of the Northeast who are not happy at all and live under martial law”

    North East India is still undergoing the slow colonization from the concept of Aryabhatta and from its forced imposition - that is slow destruction of local culture ,destruction of identity around primitive religious -social -political existence and replacement by military -business- financial aspect of the Hinduism .
    But having no advocate - Sikhs have Christian have, Muslim have and Buddhist have.They have no one .Even the neoconverted Christian enjoy only some support from certain obscure powerless quarter of the Christian religion.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wielgus

    Are you referring to the Assamese?

    • Replies: @CCG
    @Wielgus

    I think the comment is about Nagaland. The Naga people are majority Baptist Protestant.

  127. @Showmethereal
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    I wasnt familiar with that particular writing but thanks. And yes it is absolutely an inherited mindset - even regarding Afghanistan. Search the Indian press and see what they say their role should be in shaping Afghanistan. It boggles the mind that they really believe they are the British Raj reincarnated.
    Their disdain and hatred of Chinese is inherited from the Brits. Prior to colonization there was no such enmity. But when the Brits sent spies to steal tea and its process - where they they plant it and start their i dustry? India. Where did the Brits start to plant the opium they forced upon China? India... When the westerners invaded and took "concessions" of China they also used Indians (Indians gleefully fought for the empire in every war up to WW2). In places like Shanghai there were Indian soldiers that could be seen patrolling and even directing traffic in areas Chinese were even banned from or had restrictions. So this gzve them a mindset of superiority over Chinese which never existed before. And I think that is where the intense animosity REALLY comes from... not some silly rocks on land that is almost uninhabitable. They cant understand how China has achieved what it has when they feel they are supposed to be superior.. Especially now that they have "democracy" .... They forget the history on the other side of the Himalayas

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    The army of British Raj was quite small, you really should not use that as an argument, millions of Russians and Chinese helped or fought in the side of Germans and Japanese, as you probably know.

    The Chinese and Indians should be friends, and both civilizations have had historically extremely good relations, but its not like either of them have totally clean hands, or not at fault, if you get what I mean.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @AltanBakshi

    "The army of British Raj was quite small, you really should not use that as an argument, millions of Russians and Chinese helped or fought in the side of Germans and Japanese, as you probably know"

    I can't speak for Russia/Germany but the Chinese that fought on behalf of the Japanese (mostly from Taiwan) were deemed traitors by the people. Though one of the "Presidents" on Taiwan indeed was a willful and proud volunteer for the Japanese Imperial Army - he had the full support of the US simply because he started agitating for independence for Taiwan and suddenly glorified the Japanese colonization. So that Chinese (many speculate his father was Japanese by force) is exactly the type of person among the Indians who went and fought for the British.

    "The Chinese and Indians should be friends, and both civilizations have had historically extremely good relations, but its not like either of them have totally clean hands, or not at fault, if you get what I mean."

    On that point I agree completely... Frankly the issues aren't that serious... But pride. On average - Chinese don't hate Indians though... Many many many Indians hate Chinese though. Media and government policy has a whole lot to do with it. Why do you think India is banning Chinese apps under some nonsense about national security. Those apps are soft power. Meanwhile China has taken no such actions against India.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  128. @Barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Hey Moron, stop lying Start providing evidence
    Otherwise learn to shut up .
    Dont quote Wikipedia
    Learn from the scholars if you want to get any understanding of the past .


    Now while we are talking of the recent events , stay focused on the recent events .

    Anything good about Hinduvatta anywhere ?

    I heard those bastards go to Israel and talk of terrorism . I heard that they even went to Nepal , Myanmar and Sri Lanka to ratchet up communal tension .

    Have I educated you enough how to argue , find the inconsistency and correct the deficit in your knowledge ?


    Didn’t I tell you before that the typical Hindu response when accused of violence and arson and massacre is: Muslim killed us before ,in 16 the century . Now sometimes Amit Shah or Yogi will say :”we are taking revenge “ of the past .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Vishnugupta

    Hey Moron, stop lying Start providing evidence

    I was in India in that year, and I have friends who were near those bombs.

    Anything good about Hinduvatta anywhere ?

    Even though our beliefs are different, we are brothers with Hindus, I know that I can trust them, but you? We know the answer…

    In 2012 I met Buddhist monks from Bangladesh, and they told me how hard the life is there for them, how much there is fear and violence. Buddhism there is 2500 years old, unlike Islam, which destroyed all our great Monastic Universities in Bengal, as both Tibetan and Indian historians tell us.

    Decapitated Buddha statues like these are everywhere on the subcontinent, you can deceive yourself, but in your heart you know who we can thank for such barbarity. Theres lots of them in Pakistan too…

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Anecdotal experinces do not constutue history.
    Hinudism as promoted by Hinduvatta over last 40 years is not historically suppported of ever being the main plank but it has come in waves before against forces that have offereed alternatives to Hinduism from Mayuran period . Buddhism was not destroyed by Muslim but byHindus. By 6- 7 th century AD Buddhism had disappeared and its properties stupas and religiius complex had been appropriated by Hindus .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  129. @Barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Hey Moron, stop lying Start providing evidence
    Otherwise learn to shut up .
    Dont quote Wikipedia
    Learn from the scholars if you want to get any understanding of the past .


    Now while we are talking of the recent events , stay focused on the recent events .

    Anything good about Hinduvatta anywhere ?

    I heard those bastards go to Israel and talk of terrorism . I heard that they even went to Nepal , Myanmar and Sri Lanka to ratchet up communal tension .

    Have I educated you enough how to argue , find the inconsistency and correct the deficit in your knowledge ?


    Didn’t I tell you before that the typical Hindu response when accused of violence and arson and massacre is: Muslim killed us before ,in 16 the century . Now sometimes Amit Shah or Yogi will say :”we are taking revenge “ of the past .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Vishnugupta

    Facts about a certain arabian mental illness you insist of calling a ‘religion’.

    1. Founded by an illiterate(The only major religion founded by an illiterate)
    2. Founded by a SEX PERVERT (50+ year old getting it on with child was a sick perversion even in an age where child marriages were common)
    3. Divide the world into believers and unbelievers and feel it is the divine right of the believers to persecute non believers.
    4. Interesting ritual of pointing your backsides to the sky(Symbolising heaven ?) faces to the ground(Symbolising hell?) 5 times a day.
    5.Has problems and armed conflicts with all other religions on all continents. There is not a single non muslim city/country where the Muslim population is >5% and there are no problems/regular clashes.
    6.Wants to be understood and insists on being treated with kid gloves and special treatment(halal food,separate prayer rooms at airport etc etc) but insists on their inability to give equal rights to non believers on the ground that their holy book supposedly revealed to the illiterate pervert(reason for describing Mohammed as such is covered in points 2&3) prevents such treatment.
    7.The vast majority think it is appropriate to kill people for leaving their religion/cult.
    8.The vast majority believe in stoning/amputation as legitimate punishments in the 21st century
    9.The vast majority thinks blasphemy should be punished by death.Even the ”moderates” are campaigning against misuse of blasphemy laws not their repeal.
    10. Calls itself the religion of peace

    • Agree: Kent Nationalist
    • Replies: @barr
    @Vishnugupta

    Number 11 will be the nature of Vishnu -
    is he a God
    a pimp ?
    is he incarnation of Buddha who once has been called a prostutue by Shiva followers who in turn still worships penis which was also elevated to personal level by Rama Krishna worshipping his own penis and who at age 25 married a girl of age 5 just less than 200 years ago in a land where Hitler was almost accepted as God by the religious followers of the same religion who now accepts Zionism as their next rescue package and thinks cow has more rights than human and muslims should either convert to the untiouchable class or leave India because according to them
    , muslims dont follow democracy since muslim dont follow majority Hindu religious practices and doesnt honor Hindu deity nor sing hindu religious song in school or collges or in public functions.

    By the way number 12 can teach you the histirical facts quashing the foundation of your no -2.
    But to get that into your head, you cant be number 1 illiterate ,have to have honesty ,an attitude openness wuth ability to learn new facts based on various sources and above all cant belive in the cancer or corona -curing property of cow dung, or claim that internet,brainsurgery,transplant surgery and E= MC sq were invented by Vedic scholars .


    .So teach your fellow belivers the observations you make from 2 down - that will help them kill more muslim, help Yogi to burn down more mosques and Modi to come to TelAviv seeking more rescue package and Amit Shah get more more masjids destroyed just as he did in 2002 and 2014,2016,2019 and 2020 .

    Didn't I tell at the begining that whenever the RSS BJP brigand feel any quandary or discomfort or real threat to their philosophy ,first thing they say - what about 15 th or 17 century .? Some one whose sense of time and space is not compromised by phallic vision of the religion might be able to see how the upper caste has raped the rest of the Hindus from behind for centurues and have got back to it again with full religious passion in the BJP era .

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

  130. @AltanBakshi
    @Barr


    Hey Moron, stop lying Start providing evidence
     
    I was in India in that year, and I have friends who were near those bombs.

    Anything good about Hinduvatta anywhere ?
     
    Even though our beliefs are different, we are brothers with Hindus, I know that I can trust them, but you? We know the answer...

    In 2012 I met Buddhist monks from Bangladesh, and they told me how hard the life is there for them, how much there is fear and violence. Buddhism there is 2500 years old, unlike Islam, which destroyed all our great Monastic Universities in Bengal, as both Tibetan and Indian historians tell us.

    https://cdn-japantimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/f-haripur-a-20171117.jpg

    https://c8.alamy.com/comp/B69D6B/stupa-1-or-great-stupa-damaged-buddha-statue-inside-the-stupa-premises-B69D6B.jpg

    Decapitated Buddha statues like these are everywhere on the subcontinent, you can deceive yourself, but in your heart you know who we can thank for such barbarity. Theres lots of them in Pakistan too...

    Replies: @barr

    Anecdotal experinces do not constutue history.
    Hinudism as promoted by Hinduvatta over last 40 years is not historically suppported of ever being the main plank but it has come in waves before against forces that have offereed alternatives to Hinduism from Mayuran period . Buddhism was not destroyed by Muslim but byHindus. By 6- 7 th century AD Buddhism had disappeared and its properties stupas and religiius complex had been appropriated by Hindus .

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Again lies. Last Buddhist imperial power, the Palas of Bengal and Bihar, fell only in the late 12th century. Though its true that Adi Shankaras Advaintins were ascendant and winning adherents among the Buddhists of Southern and Western India, still it was a peaceful and gentlemanly process, and not anyway similar to Mahmud Ghaznis and Bakhtiyar Khiljis genocidal campaigns. Or do Muslim historians lie when they say that Mahmud e Ghazni promised to wage Jihad against infidels every year of his life? That demon did 19 Jihads against Buddhists and Hindus, desecrated countless temples and sanctuaries, and probably slaughtered your ancestors, made them slaves and forced them to convert. Do our Tibetan historians and travellers lie when they describe the horrors that they witnessed in the early 13th century amidst the ruins of our great Monastic universities? Countless Buddhist masters and their students escaped to mountaints to Tibet, so that our Dharma would not perish, the Muslims specifically targeted us, over the Hindus, to them we are, and have always been idol worshippers, isnt in Persian, maybe even in Urdu, Bud or Bhut a idol, in a most negative Islamic sense?


    This is what a Persian Muslim historian Minhaj-i-Siraj wrote about the destruction of our most important Monastery, the Sacred Nalanda:


    Muhammad-i-Bakht-yar, by the force of his intrepidity, threw himself into the postern of the gateway of the place, and they captured the fortress, and acquired great booty. The greater number of the inhabitants of that place were Brahmans, and the whole of those Brahmans had their heads shaven; and they were all slain. There were a great number of books there; and, when all these books came under the observation of the Musalmans, they summoned a number of Hindus that they might give them information respecting the import of those books; but the whole of the Hindus had been killed. On becoming acquainted [with the contents of those books], it was found that the whole of that fortress and city was a college, and in the Hindu tongue, they call a college [مدرسه] Bihar.
     
    If you are Pakistani, you very well know that all people of India were once called by the name of Hindu, as the land was called Hindustan, which originated from the Indus rivers Persian name, Hapta Hindu. Those shaved Brahmins were Buddhist monks, and Bihar comes from Sanskrit Vihara, meaning a Monastery and specifically a Buddhist monastery.

    You cant even fathom how important Nalanda is to us, unlike your magical stone, it was a place of learning and knowledge, there were not just faculties for religious studies, but also for philology, literature, medicine, logic and astronomy.

    According to Tibetan sources, five great Mahaviharas (universities) stood out: Vikramashila, the premier university of the era; Nalanda, past its prime but still illustrious; Somapura Mahavihara; Odantapurā; and Jaggadala. The mahaviharas formed a network; "all of them were under state supervision" and there existed "a system of co-ordination among them ... it seems from the evidence that the different seats of Buddhist learning that functioned in eastern India under the Pāla were regarded together as forming a network, an interlinked group of institutions," and it was common for great scholars to move easily from position to position among them.
     
    Actually Mahavihara just means Great Monastery or Monastic abode in Sanskrit.
    Those five Monastery-Universities all stopped working after Muslim invasion, just a coincidence?

    Replies: @barr, @barr, @Bashibuzuk, @Grahamsno(G64)

  131. @catchastar
    @Kent Nationalist

    What, this was news to you? A blind dolt could have given that estimate after five minutes of scrolling this site. Most articles here run on a theme of:

    China = good
    America = bad, and under Jewish control
    All western allies of America = weak, bad, suspect, shady or evil
    Russia = basically good, but also grey sometimes, weak sometimes but the wily bear, but also squatting on *ancient Chinee lands* of far east, so maybe a dangerous opponent?
    Third world = dangerous and overcrowded, dystopian, filthy, hellholes galore, no hope, no future, no food, imminent approaching dysentry, famine and death
    Africa = The Heart of Darkness, but also loaded with minerals and dangerous crocs. Always on verge of returning to the jungle, or maybe already there and no hope of emerging again unless White Man or Chinee Man give direction?
    White Nationalists = good, but also stupid, but also noble and of high standards or something
    India = all bad, all evil, all the time, also see *third world
    Muslims = basically medieval but also golden hearted and in dire need of re-education, which the Chinese leadership has so thoughtfully provided to the Uighurs. Infinitely scaleable (on demand?) across the Middle East when the time is right
    Iranians = Not Arabs, a type of White (WN's may disagree), but also clever and dangerous, bad foes and good partners, always under seige, true natural leaders of the Middle East, very much PUT UPON
    Arabs = slippery characters, in cahoots with Israelis, but also good and simple and long-suffering?
    EU (as a stand-in for all europeans) = under mortal attack from Muslim hordes and also long suffering (for reasons unknown), under some kind of pagan revival but also the true inheritors of the Church, reason to fear Russia and do, reason to hare British and do.
    British = perfidious Albion, once again pirates of the high seas. Ancient, vicious, clever, wicked and morally bankrupt and also under Jewish mind control.
    Blacks (as a theme) = sub human, low iq, low everything, overly sexual
    IQ = lack thereof of the many races

    I may have missed some highlights.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Showmethereal, @AaronB, @Europe Europa, @Daniel Chieh

    I’ve noticed the British are often a stand in for the Jews in many articles on this site, probably because this site is owned and run by a Jew therefore most columnists likely feel they have to moderate what they say in that regard, and their stereotypes of the British are 90% the same as Jewish stereotypes any way.

    • LOL: Shortsword
  132. @Vishnugupta
    @Barr

    Facts about a certain arabian mental illness you insist of calling a ‘religion’.

    1. Founded by an illiterate(The only major religion founded by an illiterate)
    2. Founded by a SEX PERVERT (50+ year old getting it on with child was a sick perversion even in an age where child marriages were common)
    3. Divide the world into believers and unbelievers and feel it is the divine right of the believers to persecute non believers.
    4. Interesting ritual of pointing your backsides to the sky(Symbolising heaven ?) faces to the ground(Symbolising hell?) 5 times a day.
    5.Has problems and armed conflicts with all other religions on all continents. There is not a single non muslim city/country where the Muslim population is >5% and there are no problems/regular clashes.
    6.Wants to be understood and insists on being treated with kid gloves and special treatment(halal food,separate prayer rooms at airport etc etc) but insists on their inability to give equal rights to non believers on the ground that their holy book supposedly revealed to the illiterate pervert(reason for describing Mohammed as such is covered in points 2&3) prevents such treatment.
    7.The vast majority think it is appropriate to kill people for leaving their religion/cult.
    8.The vast majority believe in stoning/amputation as legitimate punishments in the 21st century
    9.The vast majority thinks blasphemy should be punished by death.Even the ”moderates” are campaigning against misuse of blasphemy laws not their repeal.
    10. Calls itself the religion of peace

    Replies: @barr

    Number 11 will be the nature of Vishnu –
    is he a God
    a pimp ?
    is he incarnation of Buddha who once has been called a prostutue by Shiva followers who in turn still worships penis which was also elevated to personal level by Rama Krishna worshipping his own penis and who at age 25 married a girl of age 5 just less than 200 years ago in a land where Hitler was almost accepted as God by the religious followers of the same religion who now accepts Zionism as their next rescue package and thinks cow has more rights than human and muslims should either convert to the untiouchable class or leave India because according to them
    , muslims dont follow democracy since muslim dont follow majority Hindu religious practices and doesnt honor Hindu deity nor sing hindu religious song in school or collges or in public functions.

    By the way number 12 can teach you the histirical facts quashing the foundation of your no -2.
    But to get that into your head, you cant be number 1 illiterate ,have to have honesty ,an attitude openness wuth ability to learn new facts based on various sources and above all cant belive in the cancer or corona -curing property of cow dung, or claim that internet,brainsurgery,transplant surgery and E= MC sq were invented by Vedic scholars .

    .So teach your fellow belivers the observations you make from 2 down – that will help them kill more muslim, help Yogi to burn down more mosques and Modi to come to TelAviv seeking more rescue package and Amit Shah get more more masjids destroyed just as he did in 2002 and 2014,2016,2019 and 2020 .

    Didn’t I tell at the begining that whenever the RSS BJP brigand feel any quandary or discomfort or real threat to their philosophy ,first thing they say – what about 15 th or 17 century .? Some one whose sense of time and space is not compromised by phallic vision of the religion might be able to see how the upper caste has raped the rest of the Hindus from behind for centurues and have got back to it again with full religious passion in the BJP era .

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    @barr

    Basically your actions have caused your religion to be exposed for the evil mental illness it is on this blog.

    You therefore think you have failed as a muslim this week and think a bit of cyber jihad will atone for your shortcoming and hopefully not take away a few of the 72 you have been promised in the afterlife by your village mullah.

    Relax!One of the few points of consensus in this forum is that Islam is objectively the worst of the major world religions.So you exposing yourself as an imbecile has not lessened our respect for Islam in any way(i.e. the winds at the South Pole can only blow north)..imbeciles is usually what comes out after a millenia of first cousin marraiges.

    PS Its nearly 5AM and I am finishing the last bottle of Husky Vodka while abusing an inbred sunni idiot..such are the little pleasures of life these days..Cheers..

    Replies: @barr

  133. @AltanBakshi
    @Showmethereal

    The army of British Raj was quite small, you really should not use that as an argument, millions of Russians and Chinese helped or fought in the side of Germans and Japanese, as you probably know.

    The Chinese and Indians should be friends, and both civilizations have had historically extremely good relations, but its not like either of them have totally clean hands, or not at fault, if you get what I mean.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    “The army of British Raj was quite small, you really should not use that as an argument, millions of Russians and Chinese helped or fought in the side of Germans and Japanese, as you probably know”

    I can’t speak for Russia/Germany but the Chinese that fought on behalf of the Japanese (mostly from Taiwan) were deemed traitors by the people. Though one of the “Presidents” on Taiwan indeed was a willful and proud volunteer for the Japanese Imperial Army – he had the full support of the US simply because he started agitating for independence for Taiwan and suddenly glorified the Japanese colonization. So that Chinese (many speculate his father was Japanese by force) is exactly the type of person among the Indians who went and fought for the British.

    “The Chinese and Indians should be friends, and both civilizations have had historically extremely good relations, but its not like either of them have totally clean hands, or not at fault, if you get what I mean.”

    On that point I agree completely… Frankly the issues aren’t that serious… But pride. On average – Chinese don’t hate Indians though… Many many many Indians hate Chinese though. Media and government policy has a whole lot to do with it. Why do you think India is banning Chinese apps under some nonsense about national security. Those apps are soft power. Meanwhile China has taken no such actions against India.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @showmethereal

    Eh, almost 700 000 Chinese served in Wang Jingweis regimes army, I dont know how many served in Manchukuos, but I believe that during the wartime probably hundreds of thousands, Taiwan had a minuscule population, I really wasn't even thinking about Taiwan.

    Ive lived for a sometime in India, and I never encountered any anti Chinese attitudes, most common people were astonished about the Chinese progress, and more angry about their own politicians, who cant deliver similar kind of development to India, but I must admit that there is some fear towards China, China is after all militarily much stronger, and was the attacking party in 1962. The only real hate among Indians is towards the Pakistan, but no wonder, their tactics of funding and training terrorist cells is inexcusable behaviour.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  134. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Anecdotal experinces do not constutue history.
    Hinudism as promoted by Hinduvatta over last 40 years is not historically suppported of ever being the main plank but it has come in waves before against forces that have offereed alternatives to Hinduism from Mayuran period . Buddhism was not destroyed by Muslim but byHindus. By 6- 7 th century AD Buddhism had disappeared and its properties stupas and religiius complex had been appropriated by Hindus .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Again lies. Last Buddhist imperial power, the Palas of Bengal and Bihar, fell only in the late 12th century. Though its true that Adi Shankaras Advaintins were ascendant and winning adherents among the Buddhists of Southern and Western India, still it was a peaceful and gentlemanly process, and not anyway similar to Mahmud Ghaznis and Bakhtiyar Khiljis genocidal campaigns. Or do Muslim historians lie when they say that Mahmud e Ghazni promised to wage Jihad against infidels every year of his life? That demon did 19 Jihads against Buddhists and Hindus, desecrated countless temples and sanctuaries, and probably slaughtered your ancestors, made them slaves and forced them to convert. Do our Tibetan historians and travellers lie when they describe the horrors that they witnessed in the early 13th century amidst the ruins of our great Monastic universities? Countless Buddhist masters and their students escaped to mountaints to Tibet, so that our Dharma would not perish, the Muslims specifically targeted us, over the Hindus, to them we are, and have always been idol worshippers, isnt in Persian, maybe even in Urdu, Bud or Bhut a idol, in a most negative Islamic sense?

    This is what a Persian Muslim historian Minhaj-i-Siraj wrote about the destruction of our most important Monastery, the Sacred Nalanda:

    Muhammad-i-Bakht-yar, by the force of his intrepidity, threw himself into the postern of the gateway of the place, and they captured the fortress, and acquired great booty. The greater number of the inhabitants of that place were Brahmans, and the whole of those Brahmans had their heads shaven; and they were all slain. There were a great number of books there; and, when all these books came under the observation of the Musalmans, they summoned a number of Hindus that they might give them information respecting the import of those books; but the whole of the Hindus had been killed. On becoming acquainted [with the contents of those books], it was found that the whole of that fortress and city was a college, and in the Hindu tongue, they call a college [مدرسه] Bihar.

    If you are Pakistani, you very well know that all people of India were once called by the name of Hindu, as the land was called Hindustan, which originated from the Indus rivers Persian name, Hapta Hindu. Those shaved Brahmins were Buddhist monks, and Bihar comes from Sanskrit Vihara, meaning a Monastery and specifically a Buddhist monastery.

    You cant even fathom how important Nalanda is to us, unlike your magical stone, it was a place of learning and knowledge, there were not just faculties for religious studies, but also for philology, literature, medicine, logic and astronomy.

    According to Tibetan sources, five great Mahaviharas (universities) stood out: Vikramashila, the premier university of the era; Nalanda, past its prime but still illustrious; Somapura Mahavihara; Odantapurā; and Jaggadala. The mahaviharas formed a network; “all of them were under state supervision” and there existed “a system of co-ordination among them … it seems from the evidence that the different seats of Buddhist learning that functioned in eastern India under the Pāla were regarded together as forming a network, an interlinked group of institutions,” and it was common for great scholars to move easily from position to position among them.

    Actually Mahavihara just means Great Monastery or Monastic abode in Sanskrit.
    Those five Monastery-Universities all stopped working after Muslim invasion, just a coincidence?

    • Replies: @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    1 http://www.buddhanet.net/himalayas.htm
    2 https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv941v2f.10
    3
https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv941v2f.9

    4 When in post mughal era ,Allopanishad was decried as forgery but queen was same time celebrated as God -- https://medium.com/bengal-through-literature/durga-in-bengal-the-goddess-of-power-e4c4b2a7917f
    ( Lesson- It was possibly a forgery or embellishment but 1-the nature of the Hindu religion accepting the powerful as God was and is still part of the practice Thats why we see Trump and even modi sometimes being elevated to Hindu pantheon of God . Indira Gandhi was called reinacraction of Goddess Durga Ofer 1971 war 2 Embellishment was not new in Hinduism .If Allopanishad were to be subjected to this scrutiny so should be numerous other versions of Ramayana and Mahabharata including the addition of Gita and insertion of materials in Veda )

    5 http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/txt_eaton_temples2.pdf

    6 “ I present a limited survey of the desecration, destruction and appropriation of Buddhist stupas, monasteries and other structures by Brahminical forces. Evidence for such destruction dates as far back as the end of the reign of Ashoka,"--https://www.magzter.com/article/News/The-Caravan/Monumental-Absence


    7 "It can be proved that they destroyed innumerable religious establishments of Jains and Buddhists. Certainly it is a matter to be researched – who destroyed how many temples in the country.
    There is not much evidence of communal conflict in medieval India"
    https://thewire.in/communalism/ayodhya-verdict-babri-masjid-ram-temple-dn-jha

    Also this peripherally related but important fact---Non Catholics royals of England destroyed ,stole and sold the church properties -mostly metal- to Muslims -https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/opinion/sunday/englands-forgotten-muslim-history.html
    and destroyed Buddhist temples -https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/sassoon.htm

    , @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    NALADA - many culprits


    1 Destruction of monastery expulsion of thousands of Buddhist monks ,and killing of monks through royal decree of Hindu king immediately after death of Ashoka –”https://madrascourier.com/opinion/when-fanatical-brahmins-islamists-tried-to-decimate-buddhism/

    2 https://www.jstor.org/stable/44156189


    3 Nalanda was destroyed by Shashanka, the king of Gaud (part of Bengal) in early 7 th century.- and was resurrected later by Buddhist patronage www.makeheritagefun.com

    4 “The decline of Nalanda is concomitant with the disappearance of Buddhism in India. When Xuanzang traveled the length and breadth of India in the 7th century, he observed that his religion was in slow decay and even had ominous premonitions of Nalanda’s forthcoming demise.  The final blow was delivered when its still-flourishing monasteries, the last visible symbols of its existence in India, were overrun during the Muslim invasion ” https://snapoholic.com/index.php/blog/travel/travelogues/nalanda-ruins

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    He is probably not only a Muslim, but also some Deobandi mu'min. Therefore he is similar to lobotomized people: there are things that his brain cannot even process. You are wastinh your time Altan. Many Muslims (not all) are intellectually zombified as soon as their Deen is analyzed in any critical manner. Let him sing his Anasheed and hope to meet some sexy virgins in the afterlife.

    🙂

    , @Grahamsno(G64)
    @AltanBakshi


    Do our Tibetan historians and travellers lie when they describe the horrors that they witnessed in the early 13th century amidst the ruins of our great Monastic universities?
     
    Thank you dear Tibetan sincerely for your support.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  135. @showmethereal
    @AltanBakshi

    "The army of British Raj was quite small, you really should not use that as an argument, millions of Russians and Chinese helped or fought in the side of Germans and Japanese, as you probably know"

    I can't speak for Russia/Germany but the Chinese that fought on behalf of the Japanese (mostly from Taiwan) were deemed traitors by the people. Though one of the "Presidents" on Taiwan indeed was a willful and proud volunteer for the Japanese Imperial Army - he had the full support of the US simply because he started agitating for independence for Taiwan and suddenly glorified the Japanese colonization. So that Chinese (many speculate his father was Japanese by force) is exactly the type of person among the Indians who went and fought for the British.

    "The Chinese and Indians should be friends, and both civilizations have had historically extremely good relations, but its not like either of them have totally clean hands, or not at fault, if you get what I mean."

    On that point I agree completely... Frankly the issues aren't that serious... But pride. On average - Chinese don't hate Indians though... Many many many Indians hate Chinese though. Media and government policy has a whole lot to do with it. Why do you think India is banning Chinese apps under some nonsense about national security. Those apps are soft power. Meanwhile China has taken no such actions against India.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Eh, almost 700 000 Chinese served in Wang Jingweis regimes army, I dont know how many served in Manchukuos, but I believe that during the wartime probably hundreds of thousands, Taiwan had a minuscule population, I really wasn’t even thinking about Taiwan.

    Ive lived for a sometime in India, and I never encountered any anti Chinese attitudes, most common people were astonished about the Chinese progress, and more angry about their own politicians, who cant deliver similar kind of development to India, but I must admit that there is some fear towards China, China is after all militarily much stronger, and was the attacking party in 1962. The only real hate among Indians is towards the Pakistan, but no wonder, their tactics of funding and training terrorist cells is inexcusable behaviour.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @AltanBakshi

    Wang Jingwei was almost killed by the KMT and is regarded as a traitor by the CPC... So I'm not really understanding your point. Or maybe you misunderstand mine...? He and his team were not viewed as heroes helping anyone but themselves... Your name is pretty bad when both sides of a civil war call you a traitor.

    And I won't get into the Pakistan and India argument... But don't pretend India is innocent and it's all Pakistan's fault. It's the same garbage about the North and South in the US or North and South Korea before their civil war. Wrongs exist on both sides.
    That said - I've met many an Overseas India who dislikes Chinese but love westerners. And you can read any social media site - especially YouTube regarding anything about China and quickly see the Indian comments flood in. Try it out yourself

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  136. @barr
    @Vishnugupta

    Number 11 will be the nature of Vishnu -
    is he a God
    a pimp ?
    is he incarnation of Buddha who once has been called a prostutue by Shiva followers who in turn still worships penis which was also elevated to personal level by Rama Krishna worshipping his own penis and who at age 25 married a girl of age 5 just less than 200 years ago in a land where Hitler was almost accepted as God by the religious followers of the same religion who now accepts Zionism as their next rescue package and thinks cow has more rights than human and muslims should either convert to the untiouchable class or leave India because according to them
    , muslims dont follow democracy since muslim dont follow majority Hindu religious practices and doesnt honor Hindu deity nor sing hindu religious song in school or collges or in public functions.

    By the way number 12 can teach you the histirical facts quashing the foundation of your no -2.
    But to get that into your head, you cant be number 1 illiterate ,have to have honesty ,an attitude openness wuth ability to learn new facts based on various sources and above all cant belive in the cancer or corona -curing property of cow dung, or claim that internet,brainsurgery,transplant surgery and E= MC sq were invented by Vedic scholars .


    .So teach your fellow belivers the observations you make from 2 down - that will help them kill more muslim, help Yogi to burn down more mosques and Modi to come to TelAviv seeking more rescue package and Amit Shah get more more masjids destroyed just as he did in 2002 and 2014,2016,2019 and 2020 .

    Didn't I tell at the begining that whenever the RSS BJP brigand feel any quandary or discomfort or real threat to their philosophy ,first thing they say - what about 15 th or 17 century .? Some one whose sense of time and space is not compromised by phallic vision of the religion might be able to see how the upper caste has raped the rest of the Hindus from behind for centurues and have got back to it again with full religious passion in the BJP era .

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

    Basically your actions have caused your religion to be exposed for the evil mental illness it is on this blog.

    You therefore think you have failed as a muslim this week and think a bit of cyber jihad will atone for your shortcoming and hopefully not take away a few of the 72 you have been promised in the afterlife by your village mullah.

    Relax!One of the few points of consensus in this forum is that Islam is objectively the worst of the major world religions.So you exposing yourself as an imbecile has not lessened our respect for Islam in any way(i.e. the winds at the South Pole can only blow north)..imbeciles is usually what comes out after a millenia of first cousin marraiges.

    PS Its nearly 5AM and I am finishing the last bottle of Husky Vodka while abusing an inbred sunni idiot..such are the little pleasures of life these days..Cheers..

    • LOL: Grahamsno(G64)
    • Replies: @barr
    @Vishnugupta

    Relax now in Kashmir ! You have tried everything in Kashmir - all kinds of oppression- but they still wouldn’t revert to this pathetic Hinduvatta by converting themselves, to escape the fangs of the viper known as Hinduvatta . They are not confused Buddhist of 8th century .

    140 comment is also for you to sober up .

  137. Losing argument about the communal racial nature of the Hinduvatta baby ! Just give up the moral support that your ilk offers to it instead of seeking refuge in whiskey .

    That 72 huri is not your kind of frolicking engaged by Krishna with 70 000 underage .and is not about sharing a woman with five brothers (talk of incest !) .

  138. @Wielgus
    @Meena

    Are you referring to the Assamese?

    Replies: @CCG

    I think the comment is about Nagaland. The Naga people are majority Baptist Protestant.

  139. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Again lies. Last Buddhist imperial power, the Palas of Bengal and Bihar, fell only in the late 12th century. Though its true that Adi Shankaras Advaintins were ascendant and winning adherents among the Buddhists of Southern and Western India, still it was a peaceful and gentlemanly process, and not anyway similar to Mahmud Ghaznis and Bakhtiyar Khiljis genocidal campaigns. Or do Muslim historians lie when they say that Mahmud e Ghazni promised to wage Jihad against infidels every year of his life? That demon did 19 Jihads against Buddhists and Hindus, desecrated countless temples and sanctuaries, and probably slaughtered your ancestors, made them slaves and forced them to convert. Do our Tibetan historians and travellers lie when they describe the horrors that they witnessed in the early 13th century amidst the ruins of our great Monastic universities? Countless Buddhist masters and their students escaped to mountaints to Tibet, so that our Dharma would not perish, the Muslims specifically targeted us, over the Hindus, to them we are, and have always been idol worshippers, isnt in Persian, maybe even in Urdu, Bud or Bhut a idol, in a most negative Islamic sense?


    This is what a Persian Muslim historian Minhaj-i-Siraj wrote about the destruction of our most important Monastery, the Sacred Nalanda:


    Muhammad-i-Bakht-yar, by the force of his intrepidity, threw himself into the postern of the gateway of the place, and they captured the fortress, and acquired great booty. The greater number of the inhabitants of that place were Brahmans, and the whole of those Brahmans had their heads shaven; and they were all slain. There were a great number of books there; and, when all these books came under the observation of the Musalmans, they summoned a number of Hindus that they might give them information respecting the import of those books; but the whole of the Hindus had been killed. On becoming acquainted [with the contents of those books], it was found that the whole of that fortress and city was a college, and in the Hindu tongue, they call a college [مدرسه] Bihar.
     
    If you are Pakistani, you very well know that all people of India were once called by the name of Hindu, as the land was called Hindustan, which originated from the Indus rivers Persian name, Hapta Hindu. Those shaved Brahmins were Buddhist monks, and Bihar comes from Sanskrit Vihara, meaning a Monastery and specifically a Buddhist monastery.

    You cant even fathom how important Nalanda is to us, unlike your magical stone, it was a place of learning and knowledge, there were not just faculties for religious studies, but also for philology, literature, medicine, logic and astronomy.

    According to Tibetan sources, five great Mahaviharas (universities) stood out: Vikramashila, the premier university of the era; Nalanda, past its prime but still illustrious; Somapura Mahavihara; Odantapurā; and Jaggadala. The mahaviharas formed a network; "all of them were under state supervision" and there existed "a system of co-ordination among them ... it seems from the evidence that the different seats of Buddhist learning that functioned in eastern India under the Pāla were regarded together as forming a network, an interlinked group of institutions," and it was common for great scholars to move easily from position to position among them.
     
    Actually Mahavihara just means Great Monastery or Monastic abode in Sanskrit.
    Those five Monastery-Universities all stopped working after Muslim invasion, just a coincidence?

    Replies: @barr, @barr, @Bashibuzuk, @Grahamsno(G64)

    1 http://www.buddhanet.net/himalayas.htm
    2 https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv941v2f.10
    3
https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv941v2f.9

    4 When in post mughal era ,Allopanishad was decried as forgery but queen was same time celebrated as God — https://medium.com/bengal-through-literature/durga-in-bengal-the-goddess-of-power-e4c4b2a7917f
    ( Lesson- It was possibly a forgery or embellishment but 1-the nature of the Hindu religion accepting the powerful as God was and is still part of the practice Thats why we see Trump and even modi sometimes being elevated to Hindu pantheon of God . Indira Gandhi was called reinacraction of Goddess Durga Ofer 1971 war 2 Embellishment was not new in Hinduism .If Allopanishad were to be subjected to this scrutiny so should be numerous other versions of Ramayana and Mahabharata including the addition of Gita and insertion of materials in Veda )

    5 http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/txt_eaton_temples2.pdf

    6 “ I present a limited survey of the desecration, destruction and appropriation of Buddhist stupas, monasteries and other structures by Brahminical forces. Evidence for such destruction dates as far back as the end of the reign of Ashoka,”–https://www.magzter.com/article/News/The-Caravan/Monumental-Absence

    7 “It can be proved that they destroyed innumerable religious establishments of Jains and Buddhists. Certainly it is a matter to be researched – who destroyed how many temples in the country.
    There is not much evidence of communal conflict in medieval India”
    https://thewire.in/communalism/ayodhya-verdict-babri-masjid-ram-temple-dn-jha

    Also this peripherally related but important fact—Non Catholics royals of England destroyed ,stole and sold the church properties -mostly metal- to Muslims -https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/opinion/sunday/englands-forgotten-muslim-history.html
    and destroyed Buddhist temples -https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/sassoon.htm

  140. @Vishnugupta
    @barr

    Basically your actions have caused your religion to be exposed for the evil mental illness it is on this blog.

    You therefore think you have failed as a muslim this week and think a bit of cyber jihad will atone for your shortcoming and hopefully not take away a few of the 72 you have been promised in the afterlife by your village mullah.

    Relax!One of the few points of consensus in this forum is that Islam is objectively the worst of the major world religions.So you exposing yourself as an imbecile has not lessened our respect for Islam in any way(i.e. the winds at the South Pole can only blow north)..imbeciles is usually what comes out after a millenia of first cousin marraiges.

    PS Its nearly 5AM and I am finishing the last bottle of Husky Vodka while abusing an inbred sunni idiot..such are the little pleasures of life these days..Cheers..

    Replies: @barr

    Relax now in Kashmir ! You have tried everything in Kashmir – all kinds of oppression- but they still wouldn’t revert to this pathetic Hinduvatta by converting themselves, to escape the fangs of the viper known as Hinduvatta . They are not confused Buddhist of 8th century .

    140 comment is also for you to sober up .

  141. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Again lies. Last Buddhist imperial power, the Palas of Bengal and Bihar, fell only in the late 12th century. Though its true that Adi Shankaras Advaintins were ascendant and winning adherents among the Buddhists of Southern and Western India, still it was a peaceful and gentlemanly process, and not anyway similar to Mahmud Ghaznis and Bakhtiyar Khiljis genocidal campaigns. Or do Muslim historians lie when they say that Mahmud e Ghazni promised to wage Jihad against infidels every year of his life? That demon did 19 Jihads against Buddhists and Hindus, desecrated countless temples and sanctuaries, and probably slaughtered your ancestors, made them slaves and forced them to convert. Do our Tibetan historians and travellers lie when they describe the horrors that they witnessed in the early 13th century amidst the ruins of our great Monastic universities? Countless Buddhist masters and their students escaped to mountaints to Tibet, so that our Dharma would not perish, the Muslims specifically targeted us, over the Hindus, to them we are, and have always been idol worshippers, isnt in Persian, maybe even in Urdu, Bud or Bhut a idol, in a most negative Islamic sense?


    This is what a Persian Muslim historian Minhaj-i-Siraj wrote about the destruction of our most important Monastery, the Sacred Nalanda:


    Muhammad-i-Bakht-yar, by the force of his intrepidity, threw himself into the postern of the gateway of the place, and they captured the fortress, and acquired great booty. The greater number of the inhabitants of that place were Brahmans, and the whole of those Brahmans had their heads shaven; and they were all slain. There were a great number of books there; and, when all these books came under the observation of the Musalmans, they summoned a number of Hindus that they might give them information respecting the import of those books; but the whole of the Hindus had been killed. On becoming acquainted [with the contents of those books], it was found that the whole of that fortress and city was a college, and in the Hindu tongue, they call a college [مدرسه] Bihar.
     
    If you are Pakistani, you very well know that all people of India were once called by the name of Hindu, as the land was called Hindustan, which originated from the Indus rivers Persian name, Hapta Hindu. Those shaved Brahmins were Buddhist monks, and Bihar comes from Sanskrit Vihara, meaning a Monastery and specifically a Buddhist monastery.

    You cant even fathom how important Nalanda is to us, unlike your magical stone, it was a place of learning and knowledge, there were not just faculties for religious studies, but also for philology, literature, medicine, logic and astronomy.

    According to Tibetan sources, five great Mahaviharas (universities) stood out: Vikramashila, the premier university of the era; Nalanda, past its prime but still illustrious; Somapura Mahavihara; Odantapurā; and Jaggadala. The mahaviharas formed a network; "all of them were under state supervision" and there existed "a system of co-ordination among them ... it seems from the evidence that the different seats of Buddhist learning that functioned in eastern India under the Pāla were regarded together as forming a network, an interlinked group of institutions," and it was common for great scholars to move easily from position to position among them.
     
    Actually Mahavihara just means Great Monastery or Monastic abode in Sanskrit.
    Those five Monastery-Universities all stopped working after Muslim invasion, just a coincidence?

    Replies: @barr, @barr, @Bashibuzuk, @Grahamsno(G64)

    NALADA – many culprits

    1 Destruction of monastery expulsion of thousands of Buddhist monks ,and killing of monks through royal decree of Hindu king immediately after death of Ashoka –”https://madrascourier.com/opinion/when-fanatical-brahmins-islamists-tried-to-decimate-buddhism/

    2 https://www.jstor.org/stable/44156189

    3 Nalanda was destroyed by Shashanka, the king of Gaud (part of Bengal) in early 7 th century.- and was resurrected later by Buddhist patronage http://www.makeheritagefun.com

    4 “The decline of Nalanda is concomitant with the disappearance of Buddhism in India. When Xuanzang traveled the length and breadth of India in the 7th century, he observed that his religion was in slow decay and even had ominous premonitions of Nalanda’s forthcoming demise.  The final blow was delivered when its still-flourishing monasteries, the last visible symbols of its existence in India, were overrun during the Muslim invasion ” https://snapoholic.com/index.php/blog/travel/travelogues/nalanda-ruins

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Most of your links are extremely dubious, some dont even make sense, like that Buddhanets(which is okay site), what you are trying to prove by that link? And some of your links just dont work, at least for me.

    Okay you are making false equivalency between Islamic behaviour and Hindu behaviour towards Buddhism, or so it seems to me. You are correct that in the long history of India there has been few cases of rulers who have repressed Buddhism, just like there has been cases of Shaivite and Vaishnavite kings who have repressed each others religion, but such cases of repression are comparable with the European countries behaviour towards non state legitimised forms of Christianity in the 19th century, like Russias treatment of Catholics of Poland, less governmental funding, few appropriated churches and such, or how Bismarck behaved towards Catholics, or how Hungarians treated the Orthodox, but such state of relations between our Dharmic faiths, has always been an exception in our history, but you Muslims have now and in the past behaved towards us like communists have behaved towards the religion, purposeful desecration of holy places, slaughtering of our holy men, forced conversion, mass murdering of those who did not accept your semitic tribal god, burning of our holy books and so on and so on.

    Never have we followers of Dharmic religions dropped as low as Europeans during the wars of religions, or as you Muslims past thousand years, yes theres been sometimes aggressive polemics between us, sometimes some Jain, Hindu or Buddhist polemicist has over exaggerated things that happened centuries ago, I know quite well history, and especially Indian history, and almost everytime when some Indian historian has written about intra-Dharmic religious violence, its been 500 to 600 years after those claimed acts of violence happened, just like that Buddhist historian who wrote in the 12th century about the Shashankas wrongdoings in thr 7th century, so theres quite good case that such claims have been just polemical weapons, because unlike you Muslims, we Hindus, Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists ALWAYS see religious violence as a sign of weakness and shame(self defence is another matter), therefore there is no better argument against other religion than to claim that some ancient monarch did not only took government funding and tax exempted status away from some Jain monastery, but also killed 18 000 jain monks. Indians have often been quite dubious historians, unlike Chinese, Persians and Tibetans, for ancient Indians moral and religious teachings have been of the primary importance, and not some small historical details.

    Happily(or sadly?) we have not just Indian historians telling of us about Islamic religious violence, but theres countless and often contemporary Muslim, Tibetan and Chinese sources proving the fact, and not just that but archeological evidence corroborates with their historical records.

    Nalanda had 1600 years of history before the Muslim destruction, of course there were times before that when Nalanda was in a poor state, still Nalanda survived and had new epochs of prosperity, no matter how much you wriggle or deny the fact, its the consensus of Western, Islamic and Buddhist historians that it was destroyed by Muslims. That our Quds was destroyed by Muslims.

    Maybe those Dharmic universities would have developed similarly as the universities of Europe, they were on similar track, at least they were comparable to European universities of early 17th century...
    Then we would have had Bengal Superpower 1600 AD, oh world is a harsh place...

    By the way Shashankas was practically first and last ruler of his small state, after his death mighty emperor Harshavardhana quickly conquered the Gauda. Harsha was one the great rulers of ancient India, he supported all religions, so much that no one even knows surely if he was a Hindu or a Buddhist.

    Still I do not bear much ill will against you Muslims, or at least I try to. Oh well, no matter what is my opinion of you, you have your place in the world, and unlike our common and true enemy, you have some kind of sense of honour, you openly show who you are, and it would not be worst fate to die in a fair fight against you. Yes theres honesty and eagerness in your faith, even when you try to lie, we can right away discern the source of your motives. Unlike with our common enemy, who does not wage war openly, but works in shadows and tries to subvert our kin, our daughters and sons, if I would fight against you, I could always know that my family is spiritually safe(Jauhar, right Sher Singh?), but with the true enemy, it is always a possibility that anytime I go home, my sons and daughters have become soulless husks, brainwashed to be servants of the enemy....

    Replies: @barr, @barr, @KA

  142. @AltanBakshi
    @Daniel Chieh

    You cant be racist against Islam, its a religion, not a race or an ethnic group.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Daniel Chieh, @Stan

    Was more of a more general comment about the amusing intersection of multicultural posters and the nationalism of Karlin’s blog.

  143. @catchastar
    @Kent Nationalist

    What, this was news to you? A blind dolt could have given that estimate after five minutes of scrolling this site. Most articles here run on a theme of:

    China = good
    America = bad, and under Jewish control
    All western allies of America = weak, bad, suspect, shady or evil
    Russia = basically good, but also grey sometimes, weak sometimes but the wily bear, but also squatting on *ancient Chinee lands* of far east, so maybe a dangerous opponent?
    Third world = dangerous and overcrowded, dystopian, filthy, hellholes galore, no hope, no future, no food, imminent approaching dysentry, famine and death
    Africa = The Heart of Darkness, but also loaded with minerals and dangerous crocs. Always on verge of returning to the jungle, or maybe already there and no hope of emerging again unless White Man or Chinee Man give direction?
    White Nationalists = good, but also stupid, but also noble and of high standards or something
    India = all bad, all evil, all the time, also see *third world
    Muslims = basically medieval but also golden hearted and in dire need of re-education, which the Chinese leadership has so thoughtfully provided to the Uighurs. Infinitely scaleable (on demand?) across the Middle East when the time is right
    Iranians = Not Arabs, a type of White (WN's may disagree), but also clever and dangerous, bad foes and good partners, always under seige, true natural leaders of the Middle East, very much PUT UPON
    Arabs = slippery characters, in cahoots with Israelis, but also good and simple and long-suffering?
    EU (as a stand-in for all europeans) = under mortal attack from Muslim hordes and also long suffering (for reasons unknown), under some kind of pagan revival but also the true inheritors of the Church, reason to fear Russia and do, reason to hare British and do.
    British = perfidious Albion, once again pirates of the high seas. Ancient, vicious, clever, wicked and morally bankrupt and also under Jewish mind control.
    Blacks (as a theme) = sub human, low iq, low everything, overly sexual
    IQ = lack thereof of the many races

    I may have missed some highlights.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Showmethereal, @AaronB, @Europe Europa, @Daniel Chieh

    Russia = basically good, but also grey sometimes, weak sometimes but the wily bear, but also squatting on *ancient Chinee lands* of far east, so maybe a dangerous opponent?

    Apparently Russians are such a dangerous opponent that they are dangerous opponent even when written by Russian nationalists like Anatoly.

    Powerful takes overall, keep it up.

  144. @songbird
    Without the British, the Sikh Khalsa Raj ________.

    a.) would have conquered India proper
    b.) would have maintained its territory, or grown modestly
    c.) would have waned and then fallen apart (please, specify reason)
    d.) would have been crushed by the Portuguese, or other European people
    e.) other

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist, @Grahamsno(G64)

    Without the British, the Sikh Khalsa Raj ________.

    a.) would have conquered India proper

    Bullshit what nonsense North Indians Northeners in general have this deluded fantasies about being the tall tough warriors who routed the South, in India the south was never under any sustained military occupation except by the British and where are they now? The last great Islamic Hero Tipu Sultan had his hands full fighting off the British and expanding his empire in the South, he and his allies the French wanted a port on the West Coast and the quickest way to it was to capture Kerala where he met ferocious resistance as the military caste of Kerala the Nairs gave it to him good so much so that he gave explicit orders to annihilate this caste, this is all recorded by the French serving under him, Islam in Kerala was spread by Arab traders and not by force, hundreds of Nair strongholds were overrun and the people forcibly converted, the army retreated deep south and requested the help of the British who were glad to help as they were killing two enemies in the battle for the sub continent, the British & the Nairs prevailed and they formed a national army for the first time with the Nair regiment given a high place, it was the end of independent Kerala. The first thing they did was to ban the open carry of arms an ancient privelege of the caste… History is always fluid and fascinating as Dylan sang “don’t speak too soon” “you’ll sink like a stone For the times they are a-changin’”

    The greatest geopolitical events in our time the collapse of Soviet Union and the explosive rise of China were so off the charts pure ‘Black Swan’ events which were never predicted so enough of this genetic determinism HBD nonsense, some humility please.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Does Sanskrit have punctuation marks?

    This curious lack of punctuation in communication must have lingo-cultural precedent.

    Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)

  145. @AltanBakshi
    @Meena

    Majority of people of Assam, Manipur and Tripura are Hindus or Muslims, theres lots of Buddhists in Arunachal, Sikkim and Mizoram. Why they shouldnt be a part of India? The rest are evangelical Christians, and therefore cultists, sadly India does not treat members of such heterodox cults in same way as PRC. They have no place in Asia, not now or ever. Such people arent even genuine Christians, but something else, just like mormons. Maybe it would have been better if British would have left those tribal areas to Burma. Burmese really know how to deal with such people.

    Replies: @Meena, @CCG

    85% of Mizoram residents are mainstream Protestant (Presbyterian majority, Baptist minority). They converted to Christianity during British rule, have over 90% literacy (well above the national average), and are serious Christians. The 8.5% Buddhist population is composed entirely of the Chakma tribe that moved to India as refugees from Bangladesh in the 1960s.

    In addition, almost all of ethnic Sikkimese are Buddhist. Mass immigration of Nepali Hindus led to Sikkim’s native Buddhist majority turning into a minority. The Nepali Hindus played the leading role in the overthrow of the Sikkimese King and Sikkim’s incorporation into India, leading to more Hindu immigration from other states in India.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @CCG

    I know, I have mentioned Sikkims fate before on this site, still there are definitely more Hindus converting to Buddhism than vice versa.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  146. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    NALADA - many culprits


    1 Destruction of monastery expulsion of thousands of Buddhist monks ,and killing of monks through royal decree of Hindu king immediately after death of Ashoka –”https://madrascourier.com/opinion/when-fanatical-brahmins-islamists-tried-to-decimate-buddhism/

    2 https://www.jstor.org/stable/44156189


    3 Nalanda was destroyed by Shashanka, the king of Gaud (part of Bengal) in early 7 th century.- and was resurrected later by Buddhist patronage www.makeheritagefun.com

    4 “The decline of Nalanda is concomitant with the disappearance of Buddhism in India. When Xuanzang traveled the length and breadth of India in the 7th century, he observed that his religion was in slow decay and even had ominous premonitions of Nalanda’s forthcoming demise.  The final blow was delivered when its still-flourishing monasteries, the last visible symbols of its existence in India, were overrun during the Muslim invasion ” https://snapoholic.com/index.php/blog/travel/travelogues/nalanda-ruins

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Most of your links are extremely dubious, some dont even make sense, like that Buddhanets(which is okay site), what you are trying to prove by that link? And some of your links just dont work, at least for me.

    Okay you are making false equivalency between Islamic behaviour and Hindu behaviour towards Buddhism, or so it seems to me. You are correct that in the long history of India there has been few cases of rulers who have repressed Buddhism, just like there has been cases of Shaivite and Vaishnavite kings who have repressed each others religion, but such cases of repression are comparable with the European countries behaviour towards non state legitimised forms of Christianity in the 19th century, like Russias treatment of Catholics of Poland, less governmental funding, few appropriated churches and such, or how Bismarck behaved towards Catholics, or how Hungarians treated the Orthodox, but such state of relations between our Dharmic faiths, has always been an exception in our history, but you Muslims have now and in the past behaved towards us like communists have behaved towards the religion, purposeful desecration of holy places, slaughtering of our holy men, forced conversion, mass murdering of those who did not accept your semitic tribal god, burning of our holy books and so on and so on.

    Never have we followers of Dharmic religions dropped as low as Europeans during the wars of religions, or as you Muslims past thousand years, yes theres been sometimes aggressive polemics between us, sometimes some Jain, Hindu or Buddhist polemicist has over exaggerated things that happened centuries ago, I know quite well history, and especially Indian history, and almost everytime when some Indian historian has written about intra-Dharmic religious violence, its been 500 to 600 years after those claimed acts of violence happened, just like that Buddhist historian who wrote in the 12th century about the Shashankas wrongdoings in thr 7th century, so theres quite good case that such claims have been just polemical weapons, because unlike you Muslims, we Hindus, Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists ALWAYS see religious violence as a sign of weakness and shame(self defence is another matter), therefore there is no better argument against other religion than to claim that some ancient monarch did not only took government funding and tax exempted status away from some Jain monastery, but also killed 18 000 jain monks. Indians have often been quite dubious historians, unlike Chinese, Persians and Tibetans, for ancient Indians moral and religious teachings have been of the primary importance, and not some small historical details.

    Happily(or sadly?) we have not just Indian historians telling of us about Islamic religious violence, but theres countless and often contemporary Muslim, Tibetan and Chinese sources proving the fact, and not just that but archeological evidence corroborates with their historical records.

    Nalanda had 1600 years of history before the Muslim destruction, of course there were times before that when Nalanda was in a poor state, still Nalanda survived and had new epochs of prosperity, no matter how much you wriggle or deny the fact, its the consensus of Western, Islamic and Buddhist historians that it was destroyed by Muslims. That our Quds was destroyed by Muslims.

    Maybe those Dharmic universities would have developed similarly as the universities of Europe, they were on similar track, at least they were comparable to European universities of early 17th century…
    Then we would have had Bengal Superpower 1600 AD, oh world is a harsh place…

    By the way Shashankas was practically first and last ruler of his small state, after his death mighty emperor Harshavardhana quickly conquered the Gauda. Harsha was one the great rulers of ancient India, he supported all religions, so much that no one even knows surely if he was a Hindu or a Buddhist.

    Still I do not bear much ill will against you Muslims, or at least I try to. Oh well, no matter what is my opinion of you, you have your place in the world, and unlike our common and true enemy, you have some kind of sense of honour, you openly show who you are, and it would not be worst fate to die in a fair fight against you. Yes theres honesty and eagerness in your faith, even when you try to lie, we can right away discern the source of your motives. Unlike with our common enemy, who does not wage war openly, but works in shadows and tries to subvert our kin, our daughters and sons, if I would fight against you, I could always know that my family is spiritually safe(Jauhar, right Sher Singh?), but with the true enemy, it is always a possibility that anytime I go home, my sons and daughters have become soulless husks, brainwashed to be servants of the enemy….

    • Replies: @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Indian Puranic sources also, such as the Pratisarga Parva of the Bhavishya Purana, describe the resurgence of Brahmanism following the Maurya Dynasty, and the killing of millions of Buddhists:
    "At this time (after the rule of Chandragupta, Bindusara and Ashoka) the best of the brahmanas, Kanyakubja, performed sacrifice on the top of a mountain named Arbuda. By the influence of Vedic mantras, four Kshatriyas appeared from the yajna (sacrifice). (...) They kept Ashoka under their control and annihilated all the Buddhists. It is said there were 4 million Buddhists and all of them were killed by uncommon weapons".
    — Pratisarga Parva . https://www.quora.com/How-true-was-that-Pushyamitra-Shunga-persecuted-Buddhists-on-a-large-scale

    and see 149 above

    About DHARMA It is like Democracy and Secularism ,NPT (Atomic Bomb ) ,Freedom of Speech ,Just war as practiced by Israel . Thats the way it can be understood . They say one thing but practice something sinister .

    Its tool of oppression through gaslighting ,falsifying, suppresing and plain physically attacking the Non -Hindus ( Those Dalit Tribal forest dweller and original inhabitant snared by Hindus into chattel slavery and then labeled them as Hindus albeit belonging to 4 or 5 th class)

    Example- Suffering of the people of lower classes at the service of the Hindus from doing the menial job like carrying human waste from generation to generation is what God has prescribed ,commended ,and sanctified --- Narendra Modi

    Example- An archer who never took any class or training from Krishna was asked to sacrifice his right thumb as tuition fee in order to remove the archer as a possible contender or opponent of one of the disciples of Krishna who felt jealous and nervous .




    Mahabharata praises worshipping of the violence:" People honor the Gods most who are the killers” and Rama justifies his foul play of killing “Even sages go hunting “

    Merciless destruction of the animals , trees and the forest dwellers trying to recuse the children unsuccessfully from arson started by Krishna Arjun and the God of Fire gets religious approval in Mahabhrata.

    In modern century Indian Hindu leaders will deny scientific education to lower class saying thats the way it has been- the tradition .

    , @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Harsha was one the great rulers of ancient India, he supported all religions, so much that no one even knows surely if he was a Hindu or a Buddhist.”

    1 Harsha was Buddhist . 500 Brahmins were expelled for plotting against his rule and for apaying someone to assassinate Harsha. . He was totally different from Hindu and thats why he was not tolerated and accepted by the Brahmins

    ------

    2 Jaina Heritage: Distinction, Decline and Resilience  – January 1, 2011 by by Julia Hegewald furnish evidence of the large scale destructions of the shrines and the temples of the Jain by the Shaivit/Virshaivite sects in S India starting from 12 the century having destroyed 800 basadis and 2000 Jian temples out of 8000. Jain request to Vijyanagara ruling family for protection from Hindu mob went unanswered .
    From--
    Brahmanical Intolerance in Early India
    D.N. Jha
    Social Scientist
    Vol. 44, No. 5/6 (May–June 2016), pp. 3-10 (8 pages)

    3 The Divyavadana, a Buddhist Sanskrit work from the early centuries of the Common Era, describes the Brahmin ruler Pushyamitra Shunga as a great persecutor of Buddhists.
    He is said to have marched out with a large army, destroying stupas, burning monasteries and killing monks as far as Sakala, now known as Sialkot, where he announced a prize of one hundred dinars for every head of a Shramana (or as Buddhists were known).
    Patanjali, a contemporary of the Shungas, famously stated in his Mahabhashya that Brahmins and Shramanas (Buddhists) are eternal enemies, like the snake and the mongoose. Shunga tried his best to destroy all remains of the Mauryan Empire which he had usurped.

    , @KA
    @AltanBakshi

    " Nalanda had 1600 years of history before the Muslim destruction, of course there were times before that when Nalanda was in a poor state, still Nalanda survived and had new epochs of prosperity, no matter how much you wriggle or deny the fact, its the consensus of Western, Islamic and Buddhist historians that it was destroyed by Muslims. That our Quds was destroyed by Muslim”


    An arch Islamophobe Arun Shourie tries to demolish the facts of destruction of Nalanda by Hindus as observed by Buddhist scholars by focussing on use of them words’ Hindu and ‘Fanatics’

    https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/how-history-was-made-up-at-nalanda/

    Then you notice in his calumny this description "The greater number of inhabitants of that place were Brahmans, and the whole of those Brahmans had their heads shaven, and they were all slain.” and notice this--"enormous booty he gathered, “

    So Nalanda was not Nalanda It was already usurped by Brahmin and the place was full of booties !!!


    and Shourie ignores this observations by Buddhist scholar --“A Tibetan tradition has it that the Kalacuri King Karna (11th century) destroyed many Buddhist temples and monasteries in Magadha, and the Tibetan text Pag Sam Jon Zang refers to the burning of the library of Nalanda by some ‘Hindu fanatics’.” Because it was written after 500 yrs .

    and notice the tendency to omit subtle facts and come to his anti muslim fetich ignoring the totality of the picture as described here- “While a religious sermon was being delivered in the temple that he (Kakuta Sidha, a minister of a king of Magadha) had erected at Nalanda, a few young monks threw washing water at two Tirthika beggars. The beggars being angry, set fire on the three shrines of dharma ganja, the Buddhist university of Nalanda — that is, Ratna Sagara, Ratna Ranjaka including the nine-storey building called Ratnadadhi which contained the library of sacred books”

    How does a Hindu king erect a temple in Buddhist Nalanda ? The anger of the Buddhist monks was as valid as it would be today if someone tried to erect a Buddhist stupa inside a Ram Mandir .

    He also cites -"B.N.S. Yadava, Society and Culture in Northern India in the Twelfth Century. What did Yadava himself write? Here it is: “Further, the Tibetan tradition informs us that Kalacuri Karna (11th century) destroyed many Buddhist temples and monasteries in Magadha.”

    Jha has clearly lifted what Yadava wrote word for word — at least he has been faithful to his source. But in the very next sentence, Yadava had gone on to say: “It is very difficult to say anything as to how far this account may be correct.” https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/how-history-was-made-up-at-nalanda/

    Yes it is difficult to portray the events as it happened exactly .Partly it was not written by actual observer, second the narrative was often mixed with inserts of polemic and dubious religious phenomena . In Hinduism often the supernatural is added to the reality of the events . It like saying
    “Miraculously idol appeared on the Babri Masjid in 1948 “

    It was not miracle Only fact can be reached is taht an idol was placed by human being legally . But Arun Shouire out of his zealotry wants to ignore a historical description of an event which was already noted by Chinese scholar who commented in 8th century that Naland’as days of demise was on the horizon .

    Recent verdict by Supreme Court of India finding no one culpable for the destruction of Babri Mosque among those accused ,also tells the same falsification of the reality . Future RSS-BJP type generation will claim this " Babri masjid demolition ,despite being observed by thousands of Hindus and by hundreds of Hindu leaders, was noted as an accident .That is the conclusion we the Hindus can gather from the supreme court ruling g because no one actually destroyed the masjid physically despite thousands being present to observe the event.It must have been a miracle or an earthquake or some other supernatural phenomena.” That will be again celebrated by A Shouire or his ilk.

  147. @CCG
    @AltanBakshi

    85% of Mizoram residents are mainstream Protestant (Presbyterian majority, Baptist minority). They converted to Christianity during British rule, have over 90% literacy (well above the national average), and are serious Christians. The 8.5% Buddhist population is composed entirely of the Chakma tribe that moved to India as refugees from Bangladesh in the 1960s.

    In addition, almost all of ethnic Sikkimese are Buddhist. Mass immigration of Nepali Hindus led to Sikkim's native Buddhist majority turning into a minority. The Nepali Hindus played the leading role in the overthrow of the Sikkimese King and Sikkim's incorporation into India, leading to more Hindu immigration from other states in India.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    I know, I have mentioned Sikkims fate before on this site, still there are definitely more Hindus converting to Buddhism than vice versa.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    And Sikkim was just a minor statelet. Hinduism and Buddhism doesnt have any conflict of interest, if a person wants, because of his free will, to be follower of either of religion, there is no problem, as long as there is no external pressure.

    Though we are different religions, we both have so much common, Dharma, Karma, Samsara, Moksha and so on, we both are in good hands!

    Replies: @KA, @CCG

  148. @AltanBakshi
    @CCG

    I know, I have mentioned Sikkims fate before on this site, still there are definitely more Hindus converting to Buddhism than vice versa.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    And Sikkim was just a minor statelet. Hinduism and Buddhism doesnt have any conflict of interest, if a person wants, because of his free will, to be follower of either of religion, there is no problem, as long as there is no external pressure.

    Though we are different religions, we both have so much common, Dharma, Karma, Samsara, Moksha and so on, we both are in good hands!

    • Replies: @KA
    @AltanBakshi

    1 At their independence, India and Pakistan both claimed these unilaterally imposed British lines as their legal frontiers, though India subsequently redrew the McMahon line to push it farther into historically Tibetan territory. In the 1950s, India colluded with American covert action programs aimed at the strategic distraction of China through the destabilization of Tibet.  When these programs helped produce a failed revolt and the flight of the Dalai Lama from Tibet in 1959, India became the site of a Tibetan government in exile

    https://chasfreeman.net/india-pakistan-and-china/.

    2 India tried to grab Bhutan by instigating violence ,uprisings by mercenaries .

    Mr. Datta Ray, writing in articles and editorials, has drawn a parallel with the externally generated movement that destabilized the kingdom of Sikkim in the early 1970's, leading to its seizure and incorporation by India. The Bhutanese believe themselves to be the guardians of the last Himalayan Buddhist kingdom, squeezed between China and overpopulated Indi


    In the last two months, reports from several recently formed Indian-based groups with names like the Bhutan People's Party or the Forum for Human Rights in Bhutan have asserted that mass arrests, torture and the suppression of minority rights are occurring under King Jigme Singye Wangchuck of Bhutan.

    In August, the Hong Kong-based Asian Students Association held a news conference here to publicize the accusations and call for demonstrations. None of the student leaders speaking at the conference had visited Bhutan.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/world/india-based-groups-seek-to-disrupt-bhutan.html


    3 3 Engineering of communal violence against muslim in Nepal by RSS -BJP---- https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/16/india-islamophobia-hindu-nationalism-nepal/

    4 Forcing Hinduism on non -Hndus with state machinery in Kashmir --- The distinguishing feature of Dogra rule was exclusive state-patronage of Hinduism and a systematic campaign to Hinduize Kashmir. In her book, Hindu Rulers, Muslim Subjects, historian Mridu Rai explains that Gulab "was careful to emphasize his standing as a Hindu ruler" and publicly "denounced Hindu-Muslim marriages and conversions from Hinduism to Islam." His son, Ranbir, began "construction of a Hindu state" and founded a government department "with the single aim of securing the glorification of the Hindu religion in the state." Ranbir further "acclaimed the importance of being Hindu in order to rule in Jammu and Kashmir." His son, Pratap, represented "the interests of only the small Hindu segment of his Kashmiri subjects.” In 1941, nearly 80 percent of the population of the princely state of J&K was Muslim. Yet, writes political scientist Sumantra Bose, "Local Muslims were barred from becoming officers in the princely state’s military forces and were almost nonexistent in the civil administration." Bose quotes a Kashmiri Hindu activist of the time, who said, "The poverty of the Muslim masses is appalling. Dressed in rags and barefoot, a Muslim peasant presents the appearance of a starving beggar…. Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.” https://original.antiwar.com/pieter-j-friedrich/2019/08/07/jammu-and-kashmir-loses-special-status/

    3 https://www.eurasiareview.com/07032012-indian-hegemony-in-nepal-oped/ Is Nepal willing to forget the long stretch of land in Kalapani that has been illegally occupied by the Indian army since 1962?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @showmethereal, @AltanBakshi

    , @CCG
    @AltanBakshi

    The native Buddhist monks don't feel the same way about the demographic changes

    https://www.indepthnews.net/index.php/the-world/asia-pacific/2948-after-kashmir-sikkim-buddhists-fear-losing-their-special-constitutional-rights

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  149. @Grahamsno(G64)
    @songbird


    Without the British, the Sikh Khalsa Raj ________.

    a.) would have conquered India proper
     
    Bullshit what nonsense North Indians Northeners in general have this deluded fantasies about being the tall tough warriors who routed the South, in India the south was never under any sustained military occupation except by the British and where are they now? The last great Islamic Hero Tipu Sultan had his hands full fighting off the British and expanding his empire in the South, he and his allies the French wanted a port on the West Coast and the quickest way to it was to capture Kerala where he met ferocious resistance as the military caste of Kerala the Nairs gave it to him good so much so that he gave explicit orders to annihilate this caste, this is all recorded by the French serving under him, Islam in Kerala was spread by Arab traders and not by force, hundreds of Nair strongholds were overrun and the people forcibly converted, the army retreated deep south and requested the help of the British who were glad to help as they were killing two enemies in the battle for the sub continent, the British & the Nairs prevailed and they formed a national army for the first time with the Nair regiment given a high place, it was the end of independent Kerala. The first thing they did was to ban the open carry of arms an ancient privelege of the caste... History is always fluid and fascinating as Dylan sang "don’t speak too soon" "you’ll sink like a stone For the times they are a-changin’"

    The greatest geopolitical events in our time the collapse of Soviet Union and the explosive rise of China were so off the charts pure 'Black Swan' events which were never predicted so enough of this genetic determinism HBD nonsense, some humility please.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Does Sanskrit have punctuation marks?

    This curious lack of punctuation in communication must have lingo-cultural precedent.

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
    @Daniel Chieh

    I don't know about Sanskrit but I can tell you that punctuation marks in Malayalam (one of the 4 Dravidian languages in South India) was introduced by...a German linguist who also codified the grammar of Malayalam and compiled its first dictionary (a Malayalam to English dictionary). The fact that Malayalam didn't have punctuation marks means that Tamil the language its derived from certainly didn't all these languages were influenced by the scriptures written in Sanskrit so I presume that Sanskrit didn't have punctuation marks either.

    Incidentally the German Linguist I referred to was the grandfather of that wonderful German novelist Herman Hesse.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Gundert

  150. India and South Asia: A Short History by David Ludden  (Prof of history at U Penn) page-53 Vijayasena defeated the Palas and expelled the Buddhist from Bengal .Kathmundu valley was a Budhist but ruled by Hindu kings.

    Caste system was a top -down process. Coercion and coercive features was hidden by the faith and beliefs into Dharma – p 57

    Many violent conflicts occurred during ancient and medieval times. Violent conflicts among the farmers nomads cultivators hunters forest dwellers and warriors indicate that rule Dharma was opposed by the masses These dynasties were committed to exapnsion for growth and survival This required constant fighting (p 61). .Medieval dynasties of India expanded like empires and formed from overlapping sovereignty. Several texts described massacre of Buddhist and Jains (p 55)
    ——-

    2 Persecution continued well into 20th century . “In the first half of the twentieth century, the government of Nepal even banished a few Buddhist monks from Nepal in an aim to suppress the resurgence of Theravada Buddhism in the country. In 1926 and again in 1944, several monks were deported from Kathmandu. Those exiled in 1926 were the first group of monks to have been seen in Nepal since the 14th century. Shorty after in 1951, the Rana regime was ousted by a revolution, democracy was established and the overt persecution of Buddhists ended.
    https://www.insidehimalayas.com/buddhism-in-nepal/

    3 Buddhism suffered greatly for around 500 years during the rule of Shah and Rana Dynasty. Many Buddhist monks were exiled during this process. https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal

    4 The ruling Rana regime took a dim view of Buddhism and Nepal Bhasa, the mother tongue of the Newar people. The Ranas saw the monks’ activities as a growing threat, so after police harassment and imprisonment failed to stop these Newar monks, They deported, then dispersed to Burma and Tibet.

    —————–

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    From ancient times to present Buddhism has had recorded continuous existence in Nepal, thats consensus of Western and Buddhist historians. They had a policy against permanent presence of Buddhist monastics in some regions of Nepal for a short time period, but even in those areas Buddhism survived, I dont like to acknowledge this, but yes Buddhism can survive without monastics in special circumstances. In the early 20th century some Theravada monks could not get entrance into country, because Nepalese authorities saw them as a foreign and non native tradition, there were no problems for Mahayana monks, as you can yourself read from Japanese monks Ekai Kawaguchis memories, he travelled to Nepal as Mahayana monk, and had no problems, even befriended with Nepals prime minister, similarly Tibetan monks had no problems in Nepal, or native Nepalese Sherpa, Tamang or Gurung monks.

    I think that theres a big difference between of not allowing foreign clerics to your country and killing people because of their religion, dont you agree. Still theres a common monastic rule for all Buddhist monks, that they are prohibited entering other countries without invitation.

    Im done with you, I was curious if I could change your opinion little bit, but clearly I cant. You are free to believe what ever you want.

    Replies: @barr, @catchastar

  151. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Most of your links are extremely dubious, some dont even make sense, like that Buddhanets(which is okay site), what you are trying to prove by that link? And some of your links just dont work, at least for me.

    Okay you are making false equivalency between Islamic behaviour and Hindu behaviour towards Buddhism, or so it seems to me. You are correct that in the long history of India there has been few cases of rulers who have repressed Buddhism, just like there has been cases of Shaivite and Vaishnavite kings who have repressed each others religion, but such cases of repression are comparable with the European countries behaviour towards non state legitimised forms of Christianity in the 19th century, like Russias treatment of Catholics of Poland, less governmental funding, few appropriated churches and such, or how Bismarck behaved towards Catholics, or how Hungarians treated the Orthodox, but such state of relations between our Dharmic faiths, has always been an exception in our history, but you Muslims have now and in the past behaved towards us like communists have behaved towards the religion, purposeful desecration of holy places, slaughtering of our holy men, forced conversion, mass murdering of those who did not accept your semitic tribal god, burning of our holy books and so on and so on.

    Never have we followers of Dharmic religions dropped as low as Europeans during the wars of religions, or as you Muslims past thousand years, yes theres been sometimes aggressive polemics between us, sometimes some Jain, Hindu or Buddhist polemicist has over exaggerated things that happened centuries ago, I know quite well history, and especially Indian history, and almost everytime when some Indian historian has written about intra-Dharmic religious violence, its been 500 to 600 years after those claimed acts of violence happened, just like that Buddhist historian who wrote in the 12th century about the Shashankas wrongdoings in thr 7th century, so theres quite good case that such claims have been just polemical weapons, because unlike you Muslims, we Hindus, Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists ALWAYS see religious violence as a sign of weakness and shame(self defence is another matter), therefore there is no better argument against other religion than to claim that some ancient monarch did not only took government funding and tax exempted status away from some Jain monastery, but also killed 18 000 jain monks. Indians have often been quite dubious historians, unlike Chinese, Persians and Tibetans, for ancient Indians moral and religious teachings have been of the primary importance, and not some small historical details.

    Happily(or sadly?) we have not just Indian historians telling of us about Islamic religious violence, but theres countless and often contemporary Muslim, Tibetan and Chinese sources proving the fact, and not just that but archeological evidence corroborates with their historical records.

    Nalanda had 1600 years of history before the Muslim destruction, of course there were times before that when Nalanda was in a poor state, still Nalanda survived and had new epochs of prosperity, no matter how much you wriggle or deny the fact, its the consensus of Western, Islamic and Buddhist historians that it was destroyed by Muslims. That our Quds was destroyed by Muslims.

    Maybe those Dharmic universities would have developed similarly as the universities of Europe, they were on similar track, at least they were comparable to European universities of early 17th century...
    Then we would have had Bengal Superpower 1600 AD, oh world is a harsh place...

    By the way Shashankas was practically first and last ruler of his small state, after his death mighty emperor Harshavardhana quickly conquered the Gauda. Harsha was one the great rulers of ancient India, he supported all religions, so much that no one even knows surely if he was a Hindu or a Buddhist.

    Still I do not bear much ill will against you Muslims, or at least I try to. Oh well, no matter what is my opinion of you, you have your place in the world, and unlike our common and true enemy, you have some kind of sense of honour, you openly show who you are, and it would not be worst fate to die in a fair fight against you. Yes theres honesty and eagerness in your faith, even when you try to lie, we can right away discern the source of your motives. Unlike with our common enemy, who does not wage war openly, but works in shadows and tries to subvert our kin, our daughters and sons, if I would fight against you, I could always know that my family is spiritually safe(Jauhar, right Sher Singh?), but with the true enemy, it is always a possibility that anytime I go home, my sons and daughters have become soulless husks, brainwashed to be servants of the enemy....

    Replies: @barr, @barr, @KA

    Indian Puranic sources also, such as the Pratisarga Parva of the Bhavishya Purana, describe the resurgence of Brahmanism following the Maurya Dynasty, and the killing of millions of Buddhists:
    “At this time (after the rule of Chandragupta, Bindusara and Ashoka) the best of the brahmanas, Kanyakubja, performed sacrifice on the top of a mountain named Arbuda. By the influence of Vedic mantras, four Kshatriyas appeared from the yajna (sacrifice). (…) They kept Ashoka under their control and annihilated all the Buddhists. It is said there were 4 million Buddhists and all of them were killed by uncommon weapons”.
    — Pratisarga Parva . https://www.quora.com/How-true-was-that-Pushyamitra-Shunga-persecuted-Buddhists-on-a-large-scale

    and see 149 above

    About DHARMA It is like Democracy and Secularism ,NPT (Atomic Bomb ) ,Freedom of Speech ,Just war as practiced by Israel . Thats the way it can be understood . They say one thing but practice something sinister .

    Its tool of oppression through gaslighting ,falsifying, suppresing and plain physically attacking the Non -Hindus ( Those Dalit Tribal forest dweller and original inhabitant snared by Hindus into chattel slavery and then labeled them as Hindus albeit belonging to 4 or 5 th class)

    Example- Suffering of the people of lower classes at the service of the Hindus from doing the menial job like carrying human waste from generation to generation is what God has prescribed ,commended ,and sanctified — Narendra Modi

    Example- An archer who never took any class or training from Krishna was asked to sacrifice his right thumb as tuition fee in order to remove the archer as a possible contender or opponent of one of the disciples of Krishna who felt jealous and nervous .

    Mahabharata praises worshipping of the violence:” People honor the Gods most who are the killers” and Rama justifies his foul play of killing “Even sages go hunting “

    Merciless destruction of the animals , trees and the forest dwellers trying to recuse the children unsuccessfully from arson started by Krishna Arjun and the God of Fire gets religious approval in Mahabhrata.

    In modern century Indian Hindu leaders will deny scientific education to lower class saying thats the way it has been- the tradition .

  152. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Most of your links are extremely dubious, some dont even make sense, like that Buddhanets(which is okay site), what you are trying to prove by that link? And some of your links just dont work, at least for me.

    Okay you are making false equivalency between Islamic behaviour and Hindu behaviour towards Buddhism, or so it seems to me. You are correct that in the long history of India there has been few cases of rulers who have repressed Buddhism, just like there has been cases of Shaivite and Vaishnavite kings who have repressed each others religion, but such cases of repression are comparable with the European countries behaviour towards non state legitimised forms of Christianity in the 19th century, like Russias treatment of Catholics of Poland, less governmental funding, few appropriated churches and such, or how Bismarck behaved towards Catholics, or how Hungarians treated the Orthodox, but such state of relations between our Dharmic faiths, has always been an exception in our history, but you Muslims have now and in the past behaved towards us like communists have behaved towards the religion, purposeful desecration of holy places, slaughtering of our holy men, forced conversion, mass murdering of those who did not accept your semitic tribal god, burning of our holy books and so on and so on.

    Never have we followers of Dharmic religions dropped as low as Europeans during the wars of religions, or as you Muslims past thousand years, yes theres been sometimes aggressive polemics between us, sometimes some Jain, Hindu or Buddhist polemicist has over exaggerated things that happened centuries ago, I know quite well history, and especially Indian history, and almost everytime when some Indian historian has written about intra-Dharmic religious violence, its been 500 to 600 years after those claimed acts of violence happened, just like that Buddhist historian who wrote in the 12th century about the Shashankas wrongdoings in thr 7th century, so theres quite good case that such claims have been just polemical weapons, because unlike you Muslims, we Hindus, Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists ALWAYS see religious violence as a sign of weakness and shame(self defence is another matter), therefore there is no better argument against other religion than to claim that some ancient monarch did not only took government funding and tax exempted status away from some Jain monastery, but also killed 18 000 jain monks. Indians have often been quite dubious historians, unlike Chinese, Persians and Tibetans, for ancient Indians moral and religious teachings have been of the primary importance, and not some small historical details.

    Happily(or sadly?) we have not just Indian historians telling of us about Islamic religious violence, but theres countless and often contemporary Muslim, Tibetan and Chinese sources proving the fact, and not just that but archeological evidence corroborates with their historical records.

    Nalanda had 1600 years of history before the Muslim destruction, of course there were times before that when Nalanda was in a poor state, still Nalanda survived and had new epochs of prosperity, no matter how much you wriggle or deny the fact, its the consensus of Western, Islamic and Buddhist historians that it was destroyed by Muslims. That our Quds was destroyed by Muslims.

    Maybe those Dharmic universities would have developed similarly as the universities of Europe, they were on similar track, at least they were comparable to European universities of early 17th century...
    Then we would have had Bengal Superpower 1600 AD, oh world is a harsh place...

    By the way Shashankas was practically first and last ruler of his small state, after his death mighty emperor Harshavardhana quickly conquered the Gauda. Harsha was one the great rulers of ancient India, he supported all religions, so much that no one even knows surely if he was a Hindu or a Buddhist.

    Still I do not bear much ill will against you Muslims, or at least I try to. Oh well, no matter what is my opinion of you, you have your place in the world, and unlike our common and true enemy, you have some kind of sense of honour, you openly show who you are, and it would not be worst fate to die in a fair fight against you. Yes theres honesty and eagerness in your faith, even when you try to lie, we can right away discern the source of your motives. Unlike with our common enemy, who does not wage war openly, but works in shadows and tries to subvert our kin, our daughters and sons, if I would fight against you, I could always know that my family is spiritually safe(Jauhar, right Sher Singh?), but with the true enemy, it is always a possibility that anytime I go home, my sons and daughters have become soulless husks, brainwashed to be servants of the enemy....

    Replies: @barr, @barr, @KA

    Harsha was one the great rulers of ancient India, he supported all religions, so much that no one even knows surely if he was a Hindu or a Buddhist.”

    1 Harsha was Buddhist . 500 Brahmins were expelled for plotting against his rule and for apaying someone to assassinate Harsha. . He was totally different from Hindu and thats why he was not tolerated and accepted by the Brahmins

    ——

    2 Jaina Heritage: Distinction, Decline and Resilience  – January 1, 2011 by by Julia Hegewald furnish evidence of the large scale destructions of the shrines and the temples of the Jain by the Shaivit/Virshaivite sects in S India starting from 12 the century having destroyed 800 basadis and 2000 Jian temples out of 8000. Jain request to Vijyanagara ruling family for protection from Hindu mob went unanswered .
    From–
    Brahmanical Intolerance in Early India
    D.N. Jha
    Social Scientist
    Vol. 44, No. 5/6 (May–June 2016), pp. 3-10 (8 pages)

    3 The Divyavadana, a Buddhist Sanskrit work from the early centuries of the Common Era, describes the Brahmin ruler Pushyamitra Shunga as a great persecutor of Buddhists.
    He is said to have marched out with a large army, destroying stupas, burning monasteries and killing monks as far as Sakala, now known as Sialkot, where he announced a prize of one hundred dinars for every head of a Shramana (or as Buddhists were known).
    Patanjali, a contemporary of the Shungas, famously stated in his Mahabhashya that Brahmins and Shramanas (Buddhists) are eternal enemies, like the snake and the mongoose. Shunga tried his best to destroy all remains of the Mauryan Empire which he had usurped.

  153. 1 Buddhism spread rapidly in the region known as Orissa today after the Kalinga war in 3rd century BC .It dominated Orissa until 5th century AD and died out by 10 th century .Saivism triumphed over Buddishm in 5th century AD .An Ashoka pillar was converted inti giant Shiva Lingam at Bhaskaretvera temole in Bhubhabewswar indication an violent struggle .

    The Maddalpanji chronicle of the Jagannath temple recorded that the Ganga patron of Brahmin persecuted Buddhist . Also attempts were made to assimilate the Buddhism.Jaydeva described Buddha in 12 th century in Gita Govinda as 9th incarnation of Vishnu . https://www.jstor.org/stable/4413860?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3A82cabb2b3c94a4326bef14d563992d44&seq=2#page_scan_tab_contents

    Endorsement of generational oppression and slavery from even Gandhi:

    1 “ The law of Varna teaches us that we have each one of us to earn our bread by following the ancestral calling .it defines not our rights but our duties ..”
    MG in
    Harijan 18th July 1936 ( cw 63,153) https://www.jstor.org/stable/40279289?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3Aa2037bfb98a8a581dc8a478a28f8f76c&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

  154. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Again lies. Last Buddhist imperial power, the Palas of Bengal and Bihar, fell only in the late 12th century. Though its true that Adi Shankaras Advaintins were ascendant and winning adherents among the Buddhists of Southern and Western India, still it was a peaceful and gentlemanly process, and not anyway similar to Mahmud Ghaznis and Bakhtiyar Khiljis genocidal campaigns. Or do Muslim historians lie when they say that Mahmud e Ghazni promised to wage Jihad against infidels every year of his life? That demon did 19 Jihads against Buddhists and Hindus, desecrated countless temples and sanctuaries, and probably slaughtered your ancestors, made them slaves and forced them to convert. Do our Tibetan historians and travellers lie when they describe the horrors that they witnessed in the early 13th century amidst the ruins of our great Monastic universities? Countless Buddhist masters and their students escaped to mountaints to Tibet, so that our Dharma would not perish, the Muslims specifically targeted us, over the Hindus, to them we are, and have always been idol worshippers, isnt in Persian, maybe even in Urdu, Bud or Bhut a idol, in a most negative Islamic sense?


    This is what a Persian Muslim historian Minhaj-i-Siraj wrote about the destruction of our most important Monastery, the Sacred Nalanda:


    Muhammad-i-Bakht-yar, by the force of his intrepidity, threw himself into the postern of the gateway of the place, and they captured the fortress, and acquired great booty. The greater number of the inhabitants of that place were Brahmans, and the whole of those Brahmans had their heads shaven; and they were all slain. There were a great number of books there; and, when all these books came under the observation of the Musalmans, they summoned a number of Hindus that they might give them information respecting the import of those books; but the whole of the Hindus had been killed. On becoming acquainted [with the contents of those books], it was found that the whole of that fortress and city was a college, and in the Hindu tongue, they call a college [مدرسه] Bihar.
     
    If you are Pakistani, you very well know that all people of India were once called by the name of Hindu, as the land was called Hindustan, which originated from the Indus rivers Persian name, Hapta Hindu. Those shaved Brahmins were Buddhist monks, and Bihar comes from Sanskrit Vihara, meaning a Monastery and specifically a Buddhist monastery.

    You cant even fathom how important Nalanda is to us, unlike your magical stone, it was a place of learning and knowledge, there were not just faculties for religious studies, but also for philology, literature, medicine, logic and astronomy.

    According to Tibetan sources, five great Mahaviharas (universities) stood out: Vikramashila, the premier university of the era; Nalanda, past its prime but still illustrious; Somapura Mahavihara; Odantapurā; and Jaggadala. The mahaviharas formed a network; "all of them were under state supervision" and there existed "a system of co-ordination among them ... it seems from the evidence that the different seats of Buddhist learning that functioned in eastern India under the Pāla were regarded together as forming a network, an interlinked group of institutions," and it was common for great scholars to move easily from position to position among them.
     
    Actually Mahavihara just means Great Monastery or Monastic abode in Sanskrit.
    Those five Monastery-Universities all stopped working after Muslim invasion, just a coincidence?

    Replies: @barr, @barr, @Bashibuzuk, @Grahamsno(G64)

    He is probably not only a Muslim, but also some Deobandi mu’min. Therefore he is similar to lobotomized people: there are things that his brain cannot even process. You are wastinh your time Altan. Many Muslims (not all) are intellectually zombified as soon as their Deen is analyzed in any critical manner. Let him sing his Anasheed and hope to meet some sexy virgins in the afterlife.

    🙂

  155. @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    And Sikkim was just a minor statelet. Hinduism and Buddhism doesnt have any conflict of interest, if a person wants, because of his free will, to be follower of either of religion, there is no problem, as long as there is no external pressure.

    Though we are different religions, we both have so much common, Dharma, Karma, Samsara, Moksha and so on, we both are in good hands!

    Replies: @KA, @CCG

    1 At their independence, India and Pakistan both claimed these unilaterally imposed British lines as their legal frontiers, though India subsequently redrew the McMahon line to push it farther into historically Tibetan territory. In the 1950s, India colluded with American covert action programs aimed at the strategic distraction of China through the destabilization of Tibet.  When these programs helped produce a failed revolt and the flight of the Dalai Lama from Tibet in 1959, India became the site of a Tibetan government in exile

    https://chasfreeman.net/india-pakistan-and-china/.

    2 India tried to grab Bhutan by instigating violence ,uprisings by mercenaries .

    Mr. Datta Ray, writing in articles and editorials, has drawn a parallel with the externally generated movement that destabilized the kingdom of Sikkim in the early 1970’s, leading to its seizure and incorporation by India. The Bhutanese believe themselves to be the guardians of the last Himalayan Buddhist kingdom, squeezed between China and overpopulated Indi

    In the last two months, reports from several recently formed Indian-based groups with names like the Bhutan People’s Party or the Forum for Human Rights in Bhutan have asserted that mass arrests, torture and the suppression of minority rights are occurring under King Jigme Singye Wangchuck of Bhutan.

    In August, the Hong Kong-based Asian Students Association held a news conference here to publicize the accusations and call for demonstrations. None of the student leaders speaking at the conference had visited Bhutan.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/world/india-based-groups-seek-to-disrupt-bhutan.html

    3 3 Engineering of communal violence against muslim in Nepal by RSS -BJP—- https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/16/india-islamophobia-hindu-nationalism-nepal/

    4 Forcing Hinduism on non -Hndus with state machinery in Kashmir — The distinguishing feature of Dogra rule was exclusive state-patronage of Hinduism and a systematic campaign to Hinduize Kashmir. In her book, Hindu Rulers, Muslim Subjects, historian Mridu Rai explains that Gulab “was careful to emphasize his standing as a Hindu ruler” and publicly “denounced Hindu-Muslim marriages and conversions from Hinduism to Islam.” His son, Ranbir, began “construction of a Hindu state” and founded a government department “with the single aim of securing the glorification of the Hindu religion in the state.” Ranbir further “acclaimed the importance of being Hindu in order to rule in Jammu and Kashmir.” His son, Pratap, represented “the interests of only the small Hindu segment of his Kashmiri subjects.” In 1941, nearly 80 percent of the population of the princely state of J&K was Muslim. Yet, writes political scientist Sumantra Bose, “Local Muslims were barred from becoming officers in the princely state’s military forces and were almost nonexistent in the civil administration.” Bose quotes a Kashmiri Hindu activist of the time, who said, “The poverty of the Muslim masses is appalling. Dressed in rags and barefoot, a Muslim peasant presents the appearance of a starving beggar…. Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.” https://original.antiwar.com/pieter-j-friedrich/2019/08/07/jammu-and-kashmir-loses-special-status/

    3 https://www.eurasiareview.com/07032012-indian-hegemony-in-nepal-oped/ Is Nepal willing to forget the long stretch of land in Kalapani that has been illegally occupied by the Indian army since 1962?

    • Thanks: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @KA


    The poverty of the Muslim masses is appalling. Dressed in rags and barefoot, a Muslim peasant presents the appearance of a starving beggar…. Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.
     
    Why didn't they wage Jihad against their Hindu overlords? According to the Fikh and the Shariah, a Muslim should never accept being ruled by a Pagan. If a Muslim accepts being ruled by Pagan or Atheist rulers, then he is not one of the faithful.

    Replies: @KA, @AltanBakshi

    , @showmethereal
    @KA

    Speaking of Bhutan .... I was "arguing" a few months ago with some guy on this site who was backing Tibet and Taiwan to be independent (clueless that the government in Taipei also claimed Tibet as a part of the Republic of China). He contrasted Bhutan with Tibet noting that Bhutan was rated happiest country in the world. He repeatedly refused to acknowledge that you had hundreds of thousands of people who had to flee from Bhutan into Nepal because of discrimination. It's almost comical how people let their ideology blind them of facts and reality.

    As to Nepal... Recently there have been protests in Nepal calling for making it a "Hindu Kingdom" and asking for a country to help that I won't name... But that country blockaded Nepal only a few years ago. Strange right. But some on here would make it seem that only Muslims do things like that. Strange indeed.

    Replies: @Europe Europa, @EldnahYm

    , @AltanBakshi
    @KA

    How I could bother to reply or even read all your arguments, when the your first written sentence is already patently false? Pakistan has never claimed Sikkim, it was an Indian protectorate till 1970s.

    Replies: @KA

  156. @AltanBakshi
    @showmethereal

    Eh, almost 700 000 Chinese served in Wang Jingweis regimes army, I dont know how many served in Manchukuos, but I believe that during the wartime probably hundreds of thousands, Taiwan had a minuscule population, I really wasn't even thinking about Taiwan.

    Ive lived for a sometime in India, and I never encountered any anti Chinese attitudes, most common people were astonished about the Chinese progress, and more angry about their own politicians, who cant deliver similar kind of development to India, but I must admit that there is some fear towards China, China is after all militarily much stronger, and was the attacking party in 1962. The only real hate among Indians is towards the Pakistan, but no wonder, their tactics of funding and training terrorist cells is inexcusable behaviour.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Wang Jingwei was almost killed by the KMT and is regarded as a traitor by the CPC… So I’m not really understanding your point. Or maybe you misunderstand mine…? He and his team were not viewed as heroes helping anyone but themselves… Your name is pretty bad when both sides of a civil war call you a traitor.

    And I won’t get into the Pakistan and India argument… But don’t pretend India is innocent and it’s all Pakistan’s fault. It’s the same garbage about the North and South in the US or North and South Korea before their civil war. Wrongs exist on both sides.
    That said – I’ve met many an Overseas India who dislikes Chinese but love westerners. And you can read any social media site – especially YouTube regarding anything about China and quickly see the Indian comments flood in. Try it out yourself

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @showmethereal

    My point is that you should not judge Indians so harshly for serving in the British Army, after all British Raj was seen as a legitimate government of India in the eyes of the world, unlike hanjian Wangs regime. There are also many Indians who see those who helped British as collaborators, but no matter what we think of the British, clearly those Han who served Japanese were greater traitors to their nation than Indians who served the British. Do you now understand?

    Replies: @showmethereal

  157. Bashibuzuk says:
    @KA
    @AltanBakshi

    1 At their independence, India and Pakistan both claimed these unilaterally imposed British lines as their legal frontiers, though India subsequently redrew the McMahon line to push it farther into historically Tibetan territory. In the 1950s, India colluded with American covert action programs aimed at the strategic distraction of China through the destabilization of Tibet.  When these programs helped produce a failed revolt and the flight of the Dalai Lama from Tibet in 1959, India became the site of a Tibetan government in exile

    https://chasfreeman.net/india-pakistan-and-china/.

    2 India tried to grab Bhutan by instigating violence ,uprisings by mercenaries .

    Mr. Datta Ray, writing in articles and editorials, has drawn a parallel with the externally generated movement that destabilized the kingdom of Sikkim in the early 1970's, leading to its seizure and incorporation by India. The Bhutanese believe themselves to be the guardians of the last Himalayan Buddhist kingdom, squeezed between China and overpopulated Indi


    In the last two months, reports from several recently formed Indian-based groups with names like the Bhutan People's Party or the Forum for Human Rights in Bhutan have asserted that mass arrests, torture and the suppression of minority rights are occurring under King Jigme Singye Wangchuck of Bhutan.

    In August, the Hong Kong-based Asian Students Association held a news conference here to publicize the accusations and call for demonstrations. None of the student leaders speaking at the conference had visited Bhutan.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/world/india-based-groups-seek-to-disrupt-bhutan.html


    3 3 Engineering of communal violence against muslim in Nepal by RSS -BJP---- https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/16/india-islamophobia-hindu-nationalism-nepal/

    4 Forcing Hinduism on non -Hndus with state machinery in Kashmir --- The distinguishing feature of Dogra rule was exclusive state-patronage of Hinduism and a systematic campaign to Hinduize Kashmir. In her book, Hindu Rulers, Muslim Subjects, historian Mridu Rai explains that Gulab "was careful to emphasize his standing as a Hindu ruler" and publicly "denounced Hindu-Muslim marriages and conversions from Hinduism to Islam." His son, Ranbir, began "construction of a Hindu state" and founded a government department "with the single aim of securing the glorification of the Hindu religion in the state." Ranbir further "acclaimed the importance of being Hindu in order to rule in Jammu and Kashmir." His son, Pratap, represented "the interests of only the small Hindu segment of his Kashmiri subjects.” In 1941, nearly 80 percent of the population of the princely state of J&K was Muslim. Yet, writes political scientist Sumantra Bose, "Local Muslims were barred from becoming officers in the princely state’s military forces and were almost nonexistent in the civil administration." Bose quotes a Kashmiri Hindu activist of the time, who said, "The poverty of the Muslim masses is appalling. Dressed in rags and barefoot, a Muslim peasant presents the appearance of a starving beggar…. Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.” https://original.antiwar.com/pieter-j-friedrich/2019/08/07/jammu-and-kashmir-loses-special-status/

    3 https://www.eurasiareview.com/07032012-indian-hegemony-in-nepal-oped/ Is Nepal willing to forget the long stretch of land in Kalapani that has been illegally occupied by the Indian army since 1962?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @showmethereal, @AltanBakshi

    The poverty of the Muslim masses is appalling. Dressed in rags and barefoot, a Muslim peasant presents the appearance of a starving beggar…. Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.

    Why didn’t they wage Jihad against their Hindu overlords? According to the Fikh and the Shariah, a Muslim should never accept being ruled by a Pagan. If a Muslim accepts being ruled by Pagan or Atheist rulers, then he is not one of the faithful.

    • Replies: @KA
    @Bashibuzuk

    They do now and they have been . Then Indian educated by RSS BJP charter calls it terrorism and fascism.

    "If a Muslim accepts being ruled by Pagan or Atheist rulers, then he is not one of the faithful.” - thats another distortion . As long as religious practices are not hindered or efforts made to eradicate, muslims will, gladly live as citizen and have done so.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @catchastar

    , @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk


    Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.
     
    So just like most people of India in those times, more often than not those absentee landlords were Muslims, at least in the Oudh, Bihar, Bengal, Gujarat and Hyderabad etc...

    Yes modern Muslims always forget that ancient Muslims believed that they should never live under a Kuffar rule, except if they had an exceptional job as a diplomat or trader. Ancient Islamic consensus was that they should either fight or emigrate to Muslim lands, thats a very honest attitude, I must say. But now Muslims love to live in non-Muslim countries and complain endlessly about them, how things change...

    Replies: @Barr, @Bashibuzuk

  158. @KA
    @AltanBakshi

    1 At their independence, India and Pakistan both claimed these unilaterally imposed British lines as their legal frontiers, though India subsequently redrew the McMahon line to push it farther into historically Tibetan territory. In the 1950s, India colluded with American covert action programs aimed at the strategic distraction of China through the destabilization of Tibet.  When these programs helped produce a failed revolt and the flight of the Dalai Lama from Tibet in 1959, India became the site of a Tibetan government in exile

    https://chasfreeman.net/india-pakistan-and-china/.

    2 India tried to grab Bhutan by instigating violence ,uprisings by mercenaries .

    Mr. Datta Ray, writing in articles and editorials, has drawn a parallel with the externally generated movement that destabilized the kingdom of Sikkim in the early 1970's, leading to its seizure and incorporation by India. The Bhutanese believe themselves to be the guardians of the last Himalayan Buddhist kingdom, squeezed between China and overpopulated Indi


    In the last two months, reports from several recently formed Indian-based groups with names like the Bhutan People's Party or the Forum for Human Rights in Bhutan have asserted that mass arrests, torture and the suppression of minority rights are occurring under King Jigme Singye Wangchuck of Bhutan.

    In August, the Hong Kong-based Asian Students Association held a news conference here to publicize the accusations and call for demonstrations. None of the student leaders speaking at the conference had visited Bhutan.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/world/india-based-groups-seek-to-disrupt-bhutan.html


    3 3 Engineering of communal violence against muslim in Nepal by RSS -BJP---- https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/16/india-islamophobia-hindu-nationalism-nepal/

    4 Forcing Hinduism on non -Hndus with state machinery in Kashmir --- The distinguishing feature of Dogra rule was exclusive state-patronage of Hinduism and a systematic campaign to Hinduize Kashmir. In her book, Hindu Rulers, Muslim Subjects, historian Mridu Rai explains that Gulab "was careful to emphasize his standing as a Hindu ruler" and publicly "denounced Hindu-Muslim marriages and conversions from Hinduism to Islam." His son, Ranbir, began "construction of a Hindu state" and founded a government department "with the single aim of securing the glorification of the Hindu religion in the state." Ranbir further "acclaimed the importance of being Hindu in order to rule in Jammu and Kashmir." His son, Pratap, represented "the interests of only the small Hindu segment of his Kashmiri subjects.” In 1941, nearly 80 percent of the population of the princely state of J&K was Muslim. Yet, writes political scientist Sumantra Bose, "Local Muslims were barred from becoming officers in the princely state’s military forces and were almost nonexistent in the civil administration." Bose quotes a Kashmiri Hindu activist of the time, who said, "The poverty of the Muslim masses is appalling. Dressed in rags and barefoot, a Muslim peasant presents the appearance of a starving beggar…. Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.” https://original.antiwar.com/pieter-j-friedrich/2019/08/07/jammu-and-kashmir-loses-special-status/

    3 https://www.eurasiareview.com/07032012-indian-hegemony-in-nepal-oped/ Is Nepal willing to forget the long stretch of land in Kalapani that has been illegally occupied by the Indian army since 1962?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @showmethereal, @AltanBakshi

    Speaking of Bhutan …. I was “arguing” a few months ago with some guy on this site who was backing Tibet and Taiwan to be independent (clueless that the government in Taipei also claimed Tibet as a part of the Republic of China). He contrasted Bhutan with Tibet noting that Bhutan was rated happiest country in the world. He repeatedly refused to acknowledge that you had hundreds of thousands of people who had to flee from Bhutan into Nepal because of discrimination. It’s almost comical how people let their ideology blind them of facts and reality.

    As to Nepal… Recently there have been protests in Nepal calling for making it a “Hindu Kingdom” and asking for a country to help that I won’t name… But that country blockaded Nepal only a few years ago. Strange right. But some on here would make it seem that only Muslims do things like that. Strange indeed.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    @showmethereal

    If Tibet and Bhutan should be ruled from Beijing then morally and practically that's no different to saying Ireland should be ruled from London.

    The pro-Chinese argument seems to be that "they're basically the same" therefore the Tibetans should just shut up and accept Chinese rule because ambitions of a Tibetan state is petty and ridiculous, but surely you could say the same of the Irish and British rule?

    Replies: @showmethereal

    , @EldnahYm
    @showmethereal


    He contrasted Bhutan with Tibet noting that Bhutan was rated happiest country in the world. He repeatedly refused to acknowledge that you had hundreds of thousands of people who had to flee from Bhutan into Nepal because of discrimination. It’s almost comical how people let their ideology blind them of facts and reality.
     
    There is nothing wrong with ethnic cleansing.
  159. @KA
    @AltanBakshi

    1 At their independence, India and Pakistan both claimed these unilaterally imposed British lines as their legal frontiers, though India subsequently redrew the McMahon line to push it farther into historically Tibetan territory. In the 1950s, India colluded with American covert action programs aimed at the strategic distraction of China through the destabilization of Tibet.  When these programs helped produce a failed revolt and the flight of the Dalai Lama from Tibet in 1959, India became the site of a Tibetan government in exile

    https://chasfreeman.net/india-pakistan-and-china/.

    2 India tried to grab Bhutan by instigating violence ,uprisings by mercenaries .

    Mr. Datta Ray, writing in articles and editorials, has drawn a parallel with the externally generated movement that destabilized the kingdom of Sikkim in the early 1970's, leading to its seizure and incorporation by India. The Bhutanese believe themselves to be the guardians of the last Himalayan Buddhist kingdom, squeezed between China and overpopulated Indi


    In the last two months, reports from several recently formed Indian-based groups with names like the Bhutan People's Party or the Forum for Human Rights in Bhutan have asserted that mass arrests, torture and the suppression of minority rights are occurring under King Jigme Singye Wangchuck of Bhutan.

    In August, the Hong Kong-based Asian Students Association held a news conference here to publicize the accusations and call for demonstrations. None of the student leaders speaking at the conference had visited Bhutan.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/world/india-based-groups-seek-to-disrupt-bhutan.html


    3 3 Engineering of communal violence against muslim in Nepal by RSS -BJP---- https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/16/india-islamophobia-hindu-nationalism-nepal/

    4 Forcing Hinduism on non -Hndus with state machinery in Kashmir --- The distinguishing feature of Dogra rule was exclusive state-patronage of Hinduism and a systematic campaign to Hinduize Kashmir. In her book, Hindu Rulers, Muslim Subjects, historian Mridu Rai explains that Gulab "was careful to emphasize his standing as a Hindu ruler" and publicly "denounced Hindu-Muslim marriages and conversions from Hinduism to Islam." His son, Ranbir, began "construction of a Hindu state" and founded a government department "with the single aim of securing the glorification of the Hindu religion in the state." Ranbir further "acclaimed the importance of being Hindu in order to rule in Jammu and Kashmir." His son, Pratap, represented "the interests of only the small Hindu segment of his Kashmiri subjects.” In 1941, nearly 80 percent of the population of the princely state of J&K was Muslim. Yet, writes political scientist Sumantra Bose, "Local Muslims were barred from becoming officers in the princely state’s military forces and were almost nonexistent in the civil administration." Bose quotes a Kashmiri Hindu activist of the time, who said, "The poverty of the Muslim masses is appalling. Dressed in rags and barefoot, a Muslim peasant presents the appearance of a starving beggar…. Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.” https://original.antiwar.com/pieter-j-friedrich/2019/08/07/jammu-and-kashmir-loses-special-status/

    3 https://www.eurasiareview.com/07032012-indian-hegemony-in-nepal-oped/ Is Nepal willing to forget the long stretch of land in Kalapani that has been illegally occupied by the Indian army since 1962?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @showmethereal, @AltanBakshi

    How I could bother to reply or even read all your arguments, when the your first written sentence is already patently false? Pakistan has never claimed Sikkim, it was an Indian protectorate till 1970s.

    • Replies: @KA
    @AltanBakshi

    Hey is my knowledge based on citations from scholars hurting your stupidity and the monumental ignorance based on BJP-RSS ’s Manussmriti or election slogans?

  160. @barr
    India and South Asia: A Short History by David Ludden  (Prof of history at U Penn) page-53 Vijayasena defeated the Palas and expelled the Buddhist from Bengal .Kathmundu valley was a Budhist but ruled by Hindu kings.



    Caste system was a top -down process. Coercion and coercive features was hidden by the faith and beliefs into Dharma – p 57


    Many violent conflicts occurred during ancient and medieval times. Violent conflicts among the farmers nomads cultivators hunters forest dwellers and warriors indicate that rule Dharma was opposed by the masses These dynasties were committed to exapnsion for growth and survival This required constant fighting (p 61). .Medieval dynasties of India expanded like empires and formed from overlapping sovereignty. Several texts described massacre of Buddhist and Jains (p 55)
    -------

    2 Persecution continued well into 20th century . “In the first half of the twentieth century, the government of Nepal even banished a few Buddhist monks from Nepal in an aim to suppress the resurgence of Theravada Buddhism in the country. In 1926 and again in 1944, several monks were deported from Kathmandu. Those exiled in 1926 were the first group of monks to have been seen in Nepal since the 14th century. Shorty after in 1951, the Rana regime was ousted by a revolution, democracy was established and the overt persecution of Buddhists ended.
    https://www.insidehimalayas.com/buddhism-in-nepal/


    3 Buddhism suffered greatly for around 500 years during the rule of Shah and Rana Dynasty. Many Buddhist monks were exiled during this process. https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal

    4 The ruling Rana regime took a dim view of Buddhism and Nepal Bhasa, the mother tongue of the Newar people. The Ranas saw the monks’ activities as a growing threat, so after police harassment and imprisonment failed to stop these Newar monks, They deported, then dispersed to Burma and Tibet.

    -----------------

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    From ancient times to present Buddhism has had recorded continuous existence in Nepal, thats consensus of Western and Buddhist historians. They had a policy against permanent presence of Buddhist monastics in some regions of Nepal for a short time period, but even in those areas Buddhism survived, I dont like to acknowledge this, but yes Buddhism can survive without monastics in special circumstances. In the early 20th century some Theravada monks could not get entrance into country, because Nepalese authorities saw them as a foreign and non native tradition, there were no problems for Mahayana monks, as you can yourself read from Japanese monks Ekai Kawaguchis memories, he travelled to Nepal as Mahayana monk, and had no problems, even befriended with Nepals prime minister, similarly Tibetan monks had no problems in Nepal, or native Nepalese Sherpa, Tamang or Gurung monks.

    I think that theres a big difference between of not allowing foreign clerics to your country and killing people because of their religion, dont you agree. Still theres a common monastic rule for all Buddhist monks, that they are prohibited entering other countries without invitation.

    Im done with you, I was curious if I could change your opinion little bit, but clearly I cant. You are free to believe what ever you want.

    • Replies: @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Why don't you bring your evidence here?. You cant open citation or link and now it seems you cant read English text also .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @AltanBakshi

    , @catchastar
    @AltanBakshi

    These id's barr/showmethereal and others, are probably managed out of a disinformation cell run by ISI and staffed by low paid fundamentalist employees who work shifts. They follow a copy and paste format to bolster their illogical arguments. Perhaps an even ill-er-paid overworked researcher somewhere in the background, being ground to dust. Their rhetoric is uneven, and seems to follow a pattern which is telling of an id that is used by multiple people on sites like these. But mostly it shows the underpinnings of their masters' worldview that their medieval, intolerant, violent and barbaric religion is the answer to all of society's problems.

    The gist is if Muslims had the power they would feel justified in imposing their religion on others and yet want their rights protected when a minority, if one can call 200 million people a 'minority'. No answer on why there are illegal muslim bangladeshis in India in the first place (the ones their Paki countrymen massacred in a bloody racist genocide of the ages, so much that India had to step up and help them get their own country). But nooooo, these illegals must be given citizenship and all rights stat. No word on the beleaguered Hindu Kashmiris. Nothing but waaaa waaaa waaaa for Muslims under danger. Now we're going back to Nalanda to prove that it weren't the Muzzies who done did the durty deed, so you can't punish us now! Men of an intolerable screed who seem unable to stay in their own space.

    Replies: @Barr

  161. @showmethereal
    @AltanBakshi

    Wang Jingwei was almost killed by the KMT and is regarded as a traitor by the CPC... So I'm not really understanding your point. Or maybe you misunderstand mine...? He and his team were not viewed as heroes helping anyone but themselves... Your name is pretty bad when both sides of a civil war call you a traitor.

    And I won't get into the Pakistan and India argument... But don't pretend India is innocent and it's all Pakistan's fault. It's the same garbage about the North and South in the US or North and South Korea before their civil war. Wrongs exist on both sides.
    That said - I've met many an Overseas India who dislikes Chinese but love westerners. And you can read any social media site - especially YouTube regarding anything about China and quickly see the Indian comments flood in. Try it out yourself

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    My point is that you should not judge Indians so harshly for serving in the British Army, after all British Raj was seen as a legitimate government of India in the eyes of the world, unlike hanjian Wangs regime. There are also many Indians who see those who helped British as collaborators, but no matter what we think of the British, clearly those Han who served Japanese were greater traitors to their nation than Indians who served the British. Do you now understand?

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @AltanBakshi

    My point is the mentality of today right now. But I get it from your first sentence "should not judge Indians so harshly....."
    Aside from a few in Taiwan and Hong Kong - Chinese are not groveling to be accepted by any former invader... India still bends over backward to be accepted in the Anglo world... Especially the US.

    My original point was that those links with Britain - such as serving proudly in the military in places like China - are what give some the air of superiority toward China. I didn't say all - but certainly some. My original point as always was that prior to British colonialism in India... Indians and Chinese got along fairly well

  162. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Most of your links are extremely dubious, some dont even make sense, like that Buddhanets(which is okay site), what you are trying to prove by that link? And some of your links just dont work, at least for me.

    Okay you are making false equivalency between Islamic behaviour and Hindu behaviour towards Buddhism, or so it seems to me. You are correct that in the long history of India there has been few cases of rulers who have repressed Buddhism, just like there has been cases of Shaivite and Vaishnavite kings who have repressed each others religion, but such cases of repression are comparable with the European countries behaviour towards non state legitimised forms of Christianity in the 19th century, like Russias treatment of Catholics of Poland, less governmental funding, few appropriated churches and such, or how Bismarck behaved towards Catholics, or how Hungarians treated the Orthodox, but such state of relations between our Dharmic faiths, has always been an exception in our history, but you Muslims have now and in the past behaved towards us like communists have behaved towards the religion, purposeful desecration of holy places, slaughtering of our holy men, forced conversion, mass murdering of those who did not accept your semitic tribal god, burning of our holy books and so on and so on.

    Never have we followers of Dharmic religions dropped as low as Europeans during the wars of religions, or as you Muslims past thousand years, yes theres been sometimes aggressive polemics between us, sometimes some Jain, Hindu or Buddhist polemicist has over exaggerated things that happened centuries ago, I know quite well history, and especially Indian history, and almost everytime when some Indian historian has written about intra-Dharmic religious violence, its been 500 to 600 years after those claimed acts of violence happened, just like that Buddhist historian who wrote in the 12th century about the Shashankas wrongdoings in thr 7th century, so theres quite good case that such claims have been just polemical weapons, because unlike you Muslims, we Hindus, Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists ALWAYS see religious violence as a sign of weakness and shame(self defence is another matter), therefore there is no better argument against other religion than to claim that some ancient monarch did not only took government funding and tax exempted status away from some Jain monastery, but also killed 18 000 jain monks. Indians have often been quite dubious historians, unlike Chinese, Persians and Tibetans, for ancient Indians moral and religious teachings have been of the primary importance, and not some small historical details.

    Happily(or sadly?) we have not just Indian historians telling of us about Islamic religious violence, but theres countless and often contemporary Muslim, Tibetan and Chinese sources proving the fact, and not just that but archeological evidence corroborates with their historical records.

    Nalanda had 1600 years of history before the Muslim destruction, of course there were times before that when Nalanda was in a poor state, still Nalanda survived and had new epochs of prosperity, no matter how much you wriggle or deny the fact, its the consensus of Western, Islamic and Buddhist historians that it was destroyed by Muslims. That our Quds was destroyed by Muslims.

    Maybe those Dharmic universities would have developed similarly as the universities of Europe, they were on similar track, at least they were comparable to European universities of early 17th century...
    Then we would have had Bengal Superpower 1600 AD, oh world is a harsh place...

    By the way Shashankas was practically first and last ruler of his small state, after his death mighty emperor Harshavardhana quickly conquered the Gauda. Harsha was one the great rulers of ancient India, he supported all religions, so much that no one even knows surely if he was a Hindu or a Buddhist.

    Still I do not bear much ill will against you Muslims, or at least I try to. Oh well, no matter what is my opinion of you, you have your place in the world, and unlike our common and true enemy, you have some kind of sense of honour, you openly show who you are, and it would not be worst fate to die in a fair fight against you. Yes theres honesty and eagerness in your faith, even when you try to lie, we can right away discern the source of your motives. Unlike with our common enemy, who does not wage war openly, but works in shadows and tries to subvert our kin, our daughters and sons, if I would fight against you, I could always know that my family is spiritually safe(Jauhar, right Sher Singh?), but with the true enemy, it is always a possibility that anytime I go home, my sons and daughters have become soulless husks, brainwashed to be servants of the enemy....

    Replies: @barr, @barr, @KA

    ” Nalanda had 1600 years of history before the Muslim destruction, of course there were times before that when Nalanda was in a poor state, still Nalanda survived and had new epochs of prosperity, no matter how much you wriggle or deny the fact, its the consensus of Western, Islamic and Buddhist historians that it was destroyed by Muslims. That our Quds was destroyed by Muslim”

    An arch Islamophobe Arun Shourie tries to demolish the facts of destruction of Nalanda by Hindus as observed by Buddhist scholars by focussing on use of them words’ Hindu and ‘Fanatics’

    https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/how-history-was-made-up-at-nalanda/

    Then you notice in his calumny this description “The greater number of inhabitants of that place were Brahmans, and the whole of those Brahmans had their heads shaven, and they were all slain.” and notice this–“enormous booty he gathered, “

    So Nalanda was not Nalanda It was already usurped by Brahmin and the place was full of booties !!!

    and Shourie ignores this observations by Buddhist scholar –“A Tibetan tradition has it that the Kalacuri King Karna (11th century) destroyed many Buddhist temples and monasteries in Magadha, and the Tibetan text Pag Sam Jon Zang refers to the burning of the library of Nalanda by some ‘Hindu fanatics’.” Because it was written after 500 yrs .

    and notice the tendency to omit subtle facts and come to his anti muslim fetich ignoring the totality of the picture as described here- “While a religious sermon was being delivered in the temple that he (Kakuta Sidha, a minister of a king of Magadha) had erected at Nalanda, a few young monks threw washing water at two Tirthika beggars. The beggars being angry, set fire on the three shrines of dharma ganja, the Buddhist university of Nalanda — that is, Ratna Sagara, Ratna Ranjaka including the nine-storey building called Ratnadadhi which contained the library of sacred books”

    How does a Hindu king erect a temple in Buddhist Nalanda ? The anger of the Buddhist monks was as valid as it would be today if someone tried to erect a Buddhist stupa inside a Ram Mandir .

    He also cites -“B.N.S. Yadava, Society and Culture in Northern India in the Twelfth Century. What did Yadava himself write? Here it is: “Further, the Tibetan tradition informs us that Kalacuri Karna (11th century) destroyed many Buddhist temples and monasteries in Magadha.”

    Jha has clearly lifted what Yadava wrote word for word — at least he has been faithful to his source. But in the very next sentence, Yadava had gone on to say: “It is very difficult to say anything as to how far this account may be correct.” https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/how-history-was-made-up-at-nalanda/

    Yes it is difficult to portray the events as it happened exactly .Partly it was not written by actual observer, second the narrative was often mixed with inserts of polemic and dubious religious phenomena . In Hinduism often the supernatural is added to the reality of the events . It like saying
    “Miraculously idol appeared on the Babri Masjid in 1948 “

    It was not miracle Only fact can be reached is taht an idol was placed by human being legally . But Arun Shouire out of his zealotry wants to ignore a historical description of an event which was already noted by Chinese scholar who commented in 8th century that Naland’as days of demise was on the horizon .

    Recent verdict by Supreme Court of India finding no one culpable for the destruction of Babri Mosque among those accused ,also tells the same falsification of the reality . Future RSS-BJP type generation will claim this ” Babri masjid demolition ,despite being observed by thousands of Hindus and by hundreds of Hindu leaders, was noted as an accident .That is the conclusion we the Hindus can gather from the supreme court ruling g because no one actually destroyed the masjid physically despite thousands being present to observe the event.It must have been a miracle or an earthquake or some other supernatural phenomena.” That will be again celebrated by A Shouire or his ilk.

  163. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    From ancient times to present Buddhism has had recorded continuous existence in Nepal, thats consensus of Western and Buddhist historians. They had a policy against permanent presence of Buddhist monastics in some regions of Nepal for a short time period, but even in those areas Buddhism survived, I dont like to acknowledge this, but yes Buddhism can survive without monastics in special circumstances. In the early 20th century some Theravada monks could not get entrance into country, because Nepalese authorities saw them as a foreign and non native tradition, there were no problems for Mahayana monks, as you can yourself read from Japanese monks Ekai Kawaguchis memories, he travelled to Nepal as Mahayana monk, and had no problems, even befriended with Nepals prime minister, similarly Tibetan monks had no problems in Nepal, or native Nepalese Sherpa, Tamang or Gurung monks.

    I think that theres a big difference between of not allowing foreign clerics to your country and killing people because of their religion, dont you agree. Still theres a common monastic rule for all Buddhist monks, that they are prohibited entering other countries without invitation.

    Im done with you, I was curious if I could change your opinion little bit, but clearly I cant. You are free to believe what ever you want.

    Replies: @barr, @catchastar

    Why don’t you bring your evidence here?. You cant open citation or link and now it seems you cant read English text also .

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Because I cant read, its better that we dont continue this pointless debate.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @AltanBakshi
    @barr


    Why don’t you bring your evidence here?. You cant open citation or link and now it seems you cant read English text also .
     
    Its really like trying to communicate with a retard.

    See this link?

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal

    This link was posted by you.

    During the tyrannical reign of Rana Dynasty , government run a campaign to suppress the rise of Theravada Buddhism since they disapproved of Nepal Bhasa and Buddhism. The campaign took place in 1926 and 1944. The Rana Dynasty exiled 5 Buddhist monks in 1926 and 8 Buddhist monks in 1944. These Buddhist monks were at the front of the movement for the sole purpose of reviving Theravada Buddhism in Nepal.
     
    This citation is from the link that you yourself posted.

    Because you are a special one, I once again repeat, that citation can be found from this link that you previously posted here on this site:

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal



    You Bashibuzuk have really too much love or some kind of strange reverence towards this faith, why they should love their god, when their god is not even good or humane, he literally isnt humane, or humanlike as the Christian God.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @barr, @barr

  164. @Carlo
    @128

    First, in the West we only hear Israeli sources, which claim for example that no IDF planes were shot down by Syrian fighters, while these on the other hand claim that they shot down Israeli F-15 and F-16. If you read for example Yefim Gordon's books on Soviet aircraft (which are easily available in English) you can hear "the other side" that we usually don't.
    Second, Syria (and all other Middle Eastern countries allied to the USSR) received only downgraded equipment, as the USSR didn't trust them to operate their most capable weapons.
    Third, Soviet instructors often despaired over the lack of capabilities, and even outright treason of many high officers (many of whom were undercover Israeli agents). For example, when the USSR acceded to operate MiG-25 in Egypt, they demanded that airbase security would be performed by them, and that Egyptians officers would not even know the dates and times the MiG-25 would perform their missions (so there would be no chance Israelis would know it beforehand and prepare their defences).
    So, considering all this, a war in Europe with real Soviet and Warsaw Pact troops would have a very hard outcome for NATO. Not that it would matter much because it would soon escalate to strategic nuclear weapons and all involved countries would be pretty much destroyed.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    “Syria (and all other Middle Eastern countries allied to the USSR) received only downgraded equipment, as the USSR didn’t trust them to operate their most capable weapons.”

    Not to mention the fact that the USSR wouldn’t trust them not to take the planes straight to a US base for cash and prizes.

    Soviet instructors often despaired over the lack of capabilities, and even outright treason of many high officers (many of whom were undercover Israeli agents). For example, when the USSR acceded to operate MiG-25 in Egypt, they demanded that airbase security would be performed by them, and that Egyptians officers would not even know the dates and times the MiG-25 would perform their missions (so there would be no chance Israelis would know it beforehand and prepare their defences)

    The corruption of most/all ME countries has been a boon to Israel.

    I’ve worked with a fair few Sikhs, and I like them. But when roused they can be pretty unpleasant. The very first surrender of the UK government to multiculturalism was when Sikhs were allowed to wear their turbans on motorcycles, when Native Brits had to wear helmets – this was in the late 1960s. The government, even then, were afraid of them.

    • Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @YetAnotherAnon


    The very first surrender of the UK government to multiculturalism was when Sikhs were allowed to wear their turbans on motorcycles, when Native Brits had to wear helmets – this was in the late 1960s. The government, even then, were afraid of them.
     
    There is also the case of the ceremonial dagger.


    U.K. law secures rights of Sikhs to carry kirpans

    Powell also mentioned this in the famous speech he gave in 1968.

    'The Sikh communities' campaign to maintain customs inappropriate in Britain is much to be regretted. Working in Britain, particularly in the public services, they should be prepared to accept the terms and conditions of their employment. To claim special communal rights (or should one say rites?) leads to a dangerous fragmentation within society. This communalism is a canker; whether practised by one colour or another it is to be strongly condemned.'

    All credit to John Stonehouse for having had the insight to perceive that, and the courage to say it.
     
  165. @AltanBakshi
    @KA

    How I could bother to reply or even read all your arguments, when the your first written sentence is already patently false? Pakistan has never claimed Sikkim, it was an Indian protectorate till 1970s.

    Replies: @KA

    Hey is my knowledge based on citations from scholars hurting your stupidity and the monumental ignorance based on BJP-RSS ’s Manussmriti or election slogans?

  166. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Carlo

    "Syria (and all other Middle Eastern countries allied to the USSR) received only downgraded equipment, as the USSR didn’t trust them to operate their most capable weapons."

    Not to mention the fact that the USSR wouldn't trust them not to take the planes straight to a US base for cash and prizes.


    Soviet instructors often despaired over the lack of capabilities, and even outright treason of many high officers (many of whom were undercover Israeli agents). For example, when the USSR acceded to operate MiG-25 in Egypt, they demanded that airbase security would be performed by them, and that Egyptians officers would not even know the dates and times the MiG-25 would perform their missions (so there would be no chance Israelis would know it beforehand and prepare their defences)
     
    The corruption of most/all ME countries has been a boon to Israel.

    I've worked with a fair few Sikhs, and I like them. But when roused they can be pretty unpleasant. The very first surrender of the UK government to multiculturalism was when Sikhs were allowed to wear their turbans on motorcycles, when Native Brits had to wear helmets - this was in the late 1960s. The government, even then, were afraid of them.

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    The very first surrender of the UK government to multiculturalism was when Sikhs were allowed to wear their turbans on motorcycles, when Native Brits had to wear helmets – this was in the late 1960s. The government, even then, were afraid of them.

    There is also the case of the ceremonial dagger.

    U.K. law secures rights of Sikhs to carry kirpans

    Powell also mentioned this in the famous speech he gave in 1968.

    ‘The Sikh communities’ campaign to maintain customs inappropriate in Britain is much to be regretted. Working in Britain, particularly in the public services, they should be prepared to accept the terms and conditions of their employment. To claim special communal rights (or should one say rites?) leads to a dangerous fragmentation within society. This communalism is a canker; whether practised by one colour or another it is to be strongly condemned.’

    All credit to John Stonehouse for having had the insight to perceive that, and the courage to say it.

  167. @Bashibuzuk
    @KA


    The poverty of the Muslim masses is appalling. Dressed in rags and barefoot, a Muslim peasant presents the appearance of a starving beggar…. Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.
     
    Why didn't they wage Jihad against their Hindu overlords? According to the Fikh and the Shariah, a Muslim should never accept being ruled by a Pagan. If a Muslim accepts being ruled by Pagan or Atheist rulers, then he is not one of the faithful.

    Replies: @KA, @AltanBakshi

    They do now and they have been . Then Indian educated by RSS BJP charter calls it terrorism and fascism.

    “If a Muslim accepts being ruled by Pagan or Atheist rulers, then he is not one of the faithful.” – thats another distortion . As long as religious practices are not hindered or efforts made to eradicate, muslims will, gladly live as citizen and have done so.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @KA


    thats another distortion
     
    You are wrong from the Islamic jurisprudence point of.

    As long as religious practices are not hindered or efforts made to eradicate, muslims will, gladly live as citizen and have done so.
     
    Muslims accepting being ruled by Kuffar are not faithful anymore. Muslims must either fight the Kuffar or flee from the lands taken over by Kuffar. This is a prescription under Shariah. The only exception would be Muslims being held prisoners and restricted from acting or fleeing under fear of death. Any such situation is to be considered temporary and subject to change at the earliest opportunity.

    I use Kuffar here in its original sense ie godless Pagans. Christian or Jewish rulers are not Kuffar if they follow the Old and/or the New Testament. If they do not follow these Holly Books, then they are Kuffar and not Ahl Al Kitab anymore even though they might pretend otherwise.
    , @catchastar
    @KA

    You are fighting a losing battle. The Muslims of India do not need your representation. The 'disenfranchised' Bangla muslims you support are illegally in India and are not eligible for citizenship and anyway are racially 'inferior' to you Pakistanis since you genocided*** them in 1971 on that very basis, the Shias are doing just fine...they do not need a Paki-sponsored support group who mortally hate them anyway. The Ahmadiyas and other sects who are considered non-Muslim are not your problem either since they are put to death for apostasy in your perfect Islamic state. So who exactly are you fighting for except grinding your own Pakistani axe for imagined hurts or following orders from the Chinese leadership?

    Eventually there WILL be a common civil code in India and all Muslims will have to follow it. Whoever does not like it can leave for where-ever will have them. Not many places will. Certainly, not your Saudi masters or the Chinese. I doubt pakistan will give safe passage to their brethren either.

    ***Btw, how come the ummah doesn't condemn pakistan for what they did to the Bangladeshis? How come noone ever talks of it here or anywhere? How can the Bangladeshis bear to be part of an ummah that considers them not only racially inferior but was willing to murder them wholesale on that basis? Literal dehumanization by their own co-religionists.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @KA, @barr

  168. @Bashibuzuk
    @KA


    The poverty of the Muslim masses is appalling. Dressed in rags and barefoot, a Muslim peasant presents the appearance of a starving beggar…. Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.
     
    Why didn't they wage Jihad against their Hindu overlords? According to the Fikh and the Shariah, a Muslim should never accept being ruled by a Pagan. If a Muslim accepts being ruled by Pagan or Atheist rulers, then he is not one of the faithful.

    Replies: @KA, @AltanBakshi

    Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.

    So just like most people of India in those times, more often than not those absentee landlords were Muslims, at least in the Oudh, Bihar, Bengal, Gujarat and Hyderabad etc…

    Yes modern Muslims always forget that ancient Muslims believed that they should never live under a Kuffar rule, except if they had an exceptional job as a diplomat or trader. Ancient Islamic consensus was that they should either fight or emigrate to Muslim lands, thats a very honest attitude, I must say. But now Muslims love to live in non-Muslim countries and complain endlessly about them, how things change…

    • Replies: @Barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Muslims in India lived under Hindu rulers for centuries . Muslims lived under Ethiopian Christian kingdom in 7 century even after they had found out that they could safely return to places ruled now by Muslims.

    Muslims ruled under Chinese non- Muslims emperors for centuries even rising to the highest level of society.
    Muslims did fare always better under Ranjit Singh compared to the Brahmin Dogra usurper in Jammu and Kashmir .
    They are living in Nepal , Uganda , Kenya , Ethiopia for centuries .
    Muslim continued to live in Sicily after the conquest by Norman in 11 th century .


    They lived under Czar .

    Politics before and after the peace of Augsburg was intricately woven around religion .

    Have you forgot that dictum - Cuius regio , eius religio- Whose kingdom , his religion
    basically for centuries asserting the religion of the subject or the citizen shall follow the religion of the ruler . ( Recently Kashmir Hindu ruler tried and also Hindu Raja of Bengal in 18-19 th century )

    Muslim never enacted those laws neither in India nor in Russia controlled by Golden Horde nor in Arab .

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @AltanBakshi

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    Exactly, see my comment # 174.

    The modern day Muslims living under Kuffar rule are hypocrites: Mulhidah and Munafiqah. Muslims should go back to Dar'ul Islam (hijrah) or assert themselves against their oppressors through struggle (jihad). The Shariah is clear.

  169. @showmethereal
    @KA

    Speaking of Bhutan .... I was "arguing" a few months ago with some guy on this site who was backing Tibet and Taiwan to be independent (clueless that the government in Taipei also claimed Tibet as a part of the Republic of China). He contrasted Bhutan with Tibet noting that Bhutan was rated happiest country in the world. He repeatedly refused to acknowledge that you had hundreds of thousands of people who had to flee from Bhutan into Nepal because of discrimination. It's almost comical how people let their ideology blind them of facts and reality.

    As to Nepal... Recently there have been protests in Nepal calling for making it a "Hindu Kingdom" and asking for a country to help that I won't name... But that country blockaded Nepal only a few years ago. Strange right. But some on here would make it seem that only Muslims do things like that. Strange indeed.

    Replies: @Europe Europa, @EldnahYm

    If Tibet and Bhutan should be ruled from Beijing then morally and practically that’s no different to saying Ireland should be ruled from London.

    The pro-Chinese argument seems to be that “they’re basically the same” therefore the Tibetans should just shut up and accept Chinese rule because ambitions of a Tibetan state is petty and ridiculous, but surely you could say the same of the Irish and British rule?

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Europe Europa

    What are you blabbering about??? Tibet was ruled from Beijing for centuries. Dalai Lamas had to be approved from there for over 200 years. Bhutan is not on China's jurisdictional nor sovereignty claims. What on earth does the point of ethnic cleansing in Bhutan have anything to do with China??? Some of you have a weird fetish for China. Did you even read what I wrote?? Or are certain terms like "China" or "Taiwan" or "Tibet" a dog whistle for you???

    What happens between Irish and British rule is their own business between them. Not for others to get involved in. Your ilk should learn a thing or two about that.
    Please tell me when the Brits were killing people on the streets of Belfast - what sanctions were imposed???. What countries wrote laws to protect the IRA from the "mean" British...???

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Europe Europa

  170. @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk


    Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.
     
    So just like most people of India in those times, more often than not those absentee landlords were Muslims, at least in the Oudh, Bihar, Bengal, Gujarat and Hyderabad etc...

    Yes modern Muslims always forget that ancient Muslims believed that they should never live under a Kuffar rule, except if they had an exceptional job as a diplomat or trader. Ancient Islamic consensus was that they should either fight or emigrate to Muslim lands, thats a very honest attitude, I must say. But now Muslims love to live in non-Muslim countries and complain endlessly about them, how things change...

    Replies: @Barr, @Bashibuzuk

    Muslims in India lived under Hindu rulers for centuries . Muslims lived under Ethiopian Christian kingdom in 7 century even after they had found out that they could safely return to places ruled now by Muslims.

    Muslims ruled under Chinese non- Muslims emperors for centuries even rising to the highest level of society.
    Muslims did fare always better under Ranjit Singh compared to the Brahmin Dogra usurper in Jammu and Kashmir .
    They are living in Nepal , Uganda , Kenya , Ethiopia for centuries .
    Muslim continued to live in Sicily after the conquest by Norman in 11 th century .

    They lived under Czar .

    Politics before and after the peace of Augsburg was intricately woven around religion .

    Have you forgot that dictum – Cuius regio , eius religio- Whose kingdom , his religion
    basically for centuries asserting the religion of the subject or the citizen shall follow the religion of the ruler . ( Recently Kashmir Hindu ruler tried and also Hindu Raja of Bengal in 18-19 th century )

    Muslim never enacted those laws neither in India nor in Russia controlled by Golden Horde nor in Arab .

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Barr


    They lived under Czar .
     
    The Tzars were not Kuffar.

    The Hindu Rajas have always been Kuffar.

    See my comments above.
    , @AltanBakshi
    @Barr

    Seems that you are at least little bit more articulate than that other Pakistani guy, I know all this, I was writing about early Islamic caliphate, and in the eyes of Islam Christians have never been the Kuffar.

    Still you could at least show some modicum of respect and read my earlier comments in this debate, then you would know that Im not Indian, nor I have ever been influenced by RSS propaganda.

    Anyway you are free to believe as you like, for now Im very happy that you and your co religionists are not in power in India.

  171. Bashibuzuk says:
    @KA
    @Bashibuzuk

    They do now and they have been . Then Indian educated by RSS BJP charter calls it terrorism and fascism.

    "If a Muslim accepts being ruled by Pagan or Atheist rulers, then he is not one of the faithful.” - thats another distortion . As long as religious practices are not hindered or efforts made to eradicate, muslims will, gladly live as citizen and have done so.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @catchastar

    thats another distortion

    You are wrong from the Islamic jurisprudence point of.

    As long as religious practices are not hindered or efforts made to eradicate, muslims will, gladly live as citizen and have done so.

    Muslims accepting being ruled by Kuffar are not faithful anymore. Muslims must either fight the Kuffar or flee from the lands taken over by Kuffar. This is a prescription under Shariah. The only exception would be Muslims being held prisoners and restricted from acting or fleeing under fear of death. Any such situation is to be considered temporary and subject to change at the earliest opportunity.

    I use Kuffar here in its original sense ie godless Pagans. Christian or Jewish rulers are not Kuffar if they follow the Old and/or the New Testament. If they do not follow these Holly Books, then they are Kuffar and not Ahl Al Kitab anymore even though they might pretend otherwise.

  172. @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    And Sikkim was just a minor statelet. Hinduism and Buddhism doesnt have any conflict of interest, if a person wants, because of his free will, to be follower of either of religion, there is no problem, as long as there is no external pressure.

    Though we are different religions, we both have so much common, Dharma, Karma, Samsara, Moksha and so on, we both are in good hands!

    Replies: @KA, @CCG

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @CCG

    You know you can find any kind of arguments in depths of internet. Theres never been more than 200 thousand Buddhists in Sikkim. But every year hundreds of thousands of Hindus convert to Buddhism, especially in Maharashtra and Karnataka, sometimes in UP. It would be quite hypocritical for me to cry about Sikkim in such situation.

    https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/mega-buddhism-conversion-event-planned-in-october-rpi-leader/article33595895.ece/amp/

    https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/557570/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/a-million-low-caste-hindus-to-convert-to-buddhism-1.334983?mode=amp

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mT4JGPwjn8g

    https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/1500-dalits-convert-to-buddhism-seeking-social-equality

    https://wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/current-affairs/converted-buddhists-enjoy-better-literacy-gender-equality-than-sc-hindus-117070100255_1.html

    You can google yourself, unlike your dubious link, there are such conversion news everywhere from India, and you can find and almost all Indian major newspapers report about them, every year. And I know very well myself, I have lived in India, and when I was in Maharashtra, I was surprised by the huge amount of the converts, there are so many converts, that sometimes local Hindu priests and Brahmins get agitated. Even some Buddhists think that its possibly not good.

    Still most important thing is not, are we Buddhists or Hindus, the most important thing is that we have a religion that is suited to our psyche, and that our religion helps us to be better as people, and Buddhism doesnt deny gods, so the jump from Hindudharma to Buddhadharma or vice versa, isnt even so radical decision for the village folk. Unlike followers of semitic religions, we Buddhists believe that everyones faith must be his own free choice, that there should not be compulsion in religion, we and great masters of Jain and Hindudharma have always believed so, as also have Taoist and Confucian masters of China. Better to be a good Christian than a lazy Buddhist and vice versa, better to be a good Muslim than lazy Hindu and vice versa. Our religion has no value beyond the help it can give to humanity.

    Soon youll check the official number of Buddhists on India, thats around 10 million, or was ten years ago, yes its not much but vast majority of them are converts, and in many state local officials are not willing to register Buddhists as members of separate religion, so real number is probably nearer 20 million and growing. But anyway Buddhist mass conversions are a heated topic in some states there.

    By the way Presbyterians and Babtists are mockery of Christian religion. They are inspired by Christ but not really Christian, more like new religious movements, like Mormons and Jehovas.

    https://i.pinimg.com/236x/40/ed/8d/40ed8dc5725bbe0327d1b34b8b31218d--memes.jpg

    https://ctd-thechristianpost.netdna-ssl.com/en/full/58614/calvinist.jpg?w=760&h=570&l=50&t=40

    https://godisopen.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/calvinist-explaining-calvinism.jpg

    Found some silly Calvinist memes

  173. @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk


    Most are landless laborers, working as serfs for absentee landlords.
     
    So just like most people of India in those times, more often than not those absentee landlords were Muslims, at least in the Oudh, Bihar, Bengal, Gujarat and Hyderabad etc...

    Yes modern Muslims always forget that ancient Muslims believed that they should never live under a Kuffar rule, except if they had an exceptional job as a diplomat or trader. Ancient Islamic consensus was that they should either fight or emigrate to Muslim lands, thats a very honest attitude, I must say. But now Muslims love to live in non-Muslim countries and complain endlessly about them, how things change...

    Replies: @Barr, @Bashibuzuk

    Exactly, see my comment # 174.

    The modern day Muslims living under Kuffar rule are hypocrites: Mulhidah and Munafiqah. Muslims should go back to Dar’ul Islam (hijrah) or assert themselves against their oppressors through struggle (jihad). The Shariah is clear.

  174. @Barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Muslims in India lived under Hindu rulers for centuries . Muslims lived under Ethiopian Christian kingdom in 7 century even after they had found out that they could safely return to places ruled now by Muslims.

    Muslims ruled under Chinese non- Muslims emperors for centuries even rising to the highest level of society.
    Muslims did fare always better under Ranjit Singh compared to the Brahmin Dogra usurper in Jammu and Kashmir .
    They are living in Nepal , Uganda , Kenya , Ethiopia for centuries .
    Muslim continued to live in Sicily after the conquest by Norman in 11 th century .


    They lived under Czar .

    Politics before and after the peace of Augsburg was intricately woven around religion .

    Have you forgot that dictum - Cuius regio , eius religio- Whose kingdom , his religion
    basically for centuries asserting the religion of the subject or the citizen shall follow the religion of the ruler . ( Recently Kashmir Hindu ruler tried and also Hindu Raja of Bengal in 18-19 th century )

    Muslim never enacted those laws neither in India nor in Russia controlled by Golden Horde nor in Arab .

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @AltanBakshi

    They lived under Czar .

    The Tzars were not Kuffar.

    The Hindu Rajas have always been Kuffar.

    See my comments above.

  175. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    From ancient times to present Buddhism has had recorded continuous existence in Nepal, thats consensus of Western and Buddhist historians. They had a policy against permanent presence of Buddhist monastics in some regions of Nepal for a short time period, but even in those areas Buddhism survived, I dont like to acknowledge this, but yes Buddhism can survive without monastics in special circumstances. In the early 20th century some Theravada monks could not get entrance into country, because Nepalese authorities saw them as a foreign and non native tradition, there were no problems for Mahayana monks, as you can yourself read from Japanese monks Ekai Kawaguchis memories, he travelled to Nepal as Mahayana monk, and had no problems, even befriended with Nepals prime minister, similarly Tibetan monks had no problems in Nepal, or native Nepalese Sherpa, Tamang or Gurung monks.

    I think that theres a big difference between of not allowing foreign clerics to your country and killing people because of their religion, dont you agree. Still theres a common monastic rule for all Buddhist monks, that they are prohibited entering other countries without invitation.

    Im done with you, I was curious if I could change your opinion little bit, but clearly I cant. You are free to believe what ever you want.

    Replies: @barr, @catchastar

    These id’s barr/showmethereal and others, are probably managed out of a disinformation cell run by ISI and staffed by low paid fundamentalist employees who work shifts. They follow a copy and paste format to bolster their illogical arguments. Perhaps an even ill-er-paid overworked researcher somewhere in the background, being ground to dust. Their rhetoric is uneven, and seems to follow a pattern which is telling of an id that is used by multiple people on sites like these. But mostly it shows the underpinnings of their masters’ worldview that their medieval, intolerant, violent and barbaric religion is the answer to all of society’s problems.

    The gist is if Muslims had the power they would feel justified in imposing their religion on others and yet want their rights protected when a minority, if one can call 200 million people a ‘minority’. No answer on why there are illegal muslim bangladeshis in India in the first place (the ones their Paki countrymen massacred in a bloody racist genocide of the ages, so much that India had to step up and help them get their own country). But nooooo, these illegals must be given citizenship and all rights stat. No word on the beleaguered Hindu Kashmiris. Nothing but waaaa waaaa waaaa for Muslims under danger. Now we’re going back to Nalanda to prove that it weren’t the Muzzies who done did the durty deed, so you can’t punish us now! Men of an intolerable screed who seem unable to stay in their own space.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Troll: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Barr
    @catchastar

    "A dead professor and numerous defunct organisations were resurrected and used alongside at least 750 fake media outlets in a vast 15-year global disinformation campaign to serve Indian interests, a new investigation has revealed. "It is the largest network we have exposed," said Alexandre Alaphilippe, executive director of EU DisinfoLab, which undertook the investigation and published an extensive report on Wednesday.
    The network was designed primarily to "discredit Pakistan internationally" and influence decision-making at the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) and European Parliament, EU DisinfoLab said. "
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-55232432


    That article failed to include the boasting of RSS-BJP that it could create news anytime anywhere to suit the objective of RSS and make it go viral all over the nation . Check with Amit Shah .

  176. @showmethereal
    @KA

    Speaking of Bhutan .... I was "arguing" a few months ago with some guy on this site who was backing Tibet and Taiwan to be independent (clueless that the government in Taipei also claimed Tibet as a part of the Republic of China). He contrasted Bhutan with Tibet noting that Bhutan was rated happiest country in the world. He repeatedly refused to acknowledge that you had hundreds of thousands of people who had to flee from Bhutan into Nepal because of discrimination. It's almost comical how people let their ideology blind them of facts and reality.

    As to Nepal... Recently there have been protests in Nepal calling for making it a "Hindu Kingdom" and asking for a country to help that I won't name... But that country blockaded Nepal only a few years ago. Strange right. But some on here would make it seem that only Muslims do things like that. Strange indeed.

    Replies: @Europe Europa, @EldnahYm

    He contrasted Bhutan with Tibet noting that Bhutan was rated happiest country in the world. He repeatedly refused to acknowledge that you had hundreds of thousands of people who had to flee from Bhutan into Nepal because of discrimination. It’s almost comical how people let their ideology blind them of facts and reality.

    There is nothing wrong with ethnic cleansing.

  177. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Why don't you bring your evidence here?. You cant open citation or link and now it seems you cant read English text also .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @AltanBakshi

    Because I cant read, its better that we dont continue this pointless debate.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) has wisely given the following advice: "Fa iddha takalamtum maa l'joohalaee, kooloo lahoom salamah": "If you come to discuss with the ignorant, tell them [leave us in] peace".

    Each time I come to discuss with the Muslims (who unfortunately are only rarely truly faithful Mu'minun), I come back to the wise advice of their spiritual guide when I see how ignorant are many Muslims about their Deen.

    And although the Prophet (SAWS) has specifically commented about "Inna Al Araboo aktharoo kufran wa neefakan" ie "The Arabs are [being] greatly godless and hypocrite ", I have often found that other modern Muslims of every ethnic background are no better than the Bedouin of yore.

    They don't know their religion and they love this world more than they love Allah. Therefore, they should not complain about other people holding them in a very low esteem. They should see themselves as they truly are: hypocrites enjoying the pleasures of this fleeting existence, while preparing for an infinite suffering un the fiery furnaces of Al Jahannamah (Gehenna).

    A truly sad state really...

  178. @Barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Muslims in India lived under Hindu rulers for centuries . Muslims lived under Ethiopian Christian kingdom in 7 century even after they had found out that they could safely return to places ruled now by Muslims.

    Muslims ruled under Chinese non- Muslims emperors for centuries even rising to the highest level of society.
    Muslims did fare always better under Ranjit Singh compared to the Brahmin Dogra usurper in Jammu and Kashmir .
    They are living in Nepal , Uganda , Kenya , Ethiopia for centuries .
    Muslim continued to live in Sicily after the conquest by Norman in 11 th century .


    They lived under Czar .

    Politics before and after the peace of Augsburg was intricately woven around religion .

    Have you forgot that dictum - Cuius regio , eius religio- Whose kingdom , his religion
    basically for centuries asserting the religion of the subject or the citizen shall follow the religion of the ruler . ( Recently Kashmir Hindu ruler tried and also Hindu Raja of Bengal in 18-19 th century )

    Muslim never enacted those laws neither in India nor in Russia controlled by Golden Horde nor in Arab .

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @AltanBakshi

    Seems that you are at least little bit more articulate than that other Pakistani guy, I know all this, I was writing about early Islamic caliphate, and in the eyes of Islam Christians have never been the Kuffar.

    Still you could at least show some modicum of respect and read my earlier comments in this debate, then you would know that Im not Indian, nor I have ever been influenced by RSS propaganda.

    Anyway you are free to believe as you like, for now Im very happy that you and your co religionists are not in power in India.

  179. @AaronB
    @catchastar

    I would not be at all surprised if this site was at least partially funded by the CCP.

    And if it isn't, it certainly should be.

    This isn't a free speech site or a site of general intellectual curiosity- its a site specifically for opinions that are "excluded from the mainstream."

    In other words its "propaganda for the other side". Generally very obvious and ham-fisted. Ham-fisted propaganda does not get more crude and clumsy than the main writer on China here, I forget his name, that guy who lives in Thailand, or than Ron's American Pravda series.

    And it isn't a site that welcomes genuinely non-mainstream opinions - opinions that genuinely question the implicit assumptions underlying the shared political discourse from both sides, or the shared implicit assumptions that determine the way society is organized and how one should live, are unpopular and not always published, and are beyond the imagination of most writers or commenters here, who respond with hostility to anything that genuinely deviates from the norm.

    This site is best described as a counter-mainstream site - a site for the purpose of propagating one side in a political debate without questioning the assumptions that frame the debate.

    Occasionally, despite this, something interesting that breaks out from the reigning paradigm gets said, but its rare.

    Replies: @catchastar

    In other words its “propaganda for the other side”. Generally very obvious and ham-fisted

    Well yes, that makes sense. I am not against the concept of it per se. But they must pay their writers very little, and the troll army by the word, because they apply the copy and paste function most liberally. Also some blatant untruths that can be quite hurtful. 🙂

    Some of the comment trolls seem very organized so I imagine such concerted attacks are definitely ‘sponsored’, though by whom is open to conjecture.

    It can be interesting but also a hall of mirrors. I wonder if people who throng such sites get lost in the noise and the pov they are promoting (aka disinformation). Do they go mad holding so many opposing points of view? The psychology is fascinating.

  180. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Because I cant read, its better that we dont continue this pointless debate.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) has wisely given the following advice: “Fa iddha takalamtum maa l’joohalaee, kooloo lahoom salamah“: “If you come to discuss with the ignorant, tell them [leave us in] peace”.

    Each time I come to discuss with the Muslims (who unfortunately are only rarely truly faithful Mu’minun), I come back to the wise advice of their spiritual guide when I see how ignorant are many Muslims about their Deen.

    And although the Prophet (SAWS) has specifically commented about “Inna Al Araboo aktharoo kufran wa neefakan” ie “The Arabs are [being] greatly godless and hypocrite “, I have often found that other modern Muslims of every ethnic background are no better than the Bedouin of yore.

    They don’t know their religion and they love this world more than they love Allah. Therefore, they should not complain about other people holding them in a very low esteem. They should see themselves as they truly are: hypocrites enjoying the pleasures of this fleeting existence, while preparing for an infinite suffering un the fiery furnaces of Al Jahannamah (Gehenna).

    A truly sad state really…

  181. @catchastar
    @AltanBakshi

    These id's barr/showmethereal and others, are probably managed out of a disinformation cell run by ISI and staffed by low paid fundamentalist employees who work shifts. They follow a copy and paste format to bolster their illogical arguments. Perhaps an even ill-er-paid overworked researcher somewhere in the background, being ground to dust. Their rhetoric is uneven, and seems to follow a pattern which is telling of an id that is used by multiple people on sites like these. But mostly it shows the underpinnings of their masters' worldview that their medieval, intolerant, violent and barbaric religion is the answer to all of society's problems.

    The gist is if Muslims had the power they would feel justified in imposing their religion on others and yet want their rights protected when a minority, if one can call 200 million people a 'minority'. No answer on why there are illegal muslim bangladeshis in India in the first place (the ones their Paki countrymen massacred in a bloody racist genocide of the ages, so much that India had to step up and help them get their own country). But nooooo, these illegals must be given citizenship and all rights stat. No word on the beleaguered Hindu Kashmiris. Nothing but waaaa waaaa waaaa for Muslims under danger. Now we're going back to Nalanda to prove that it weren't the Muzzies who done did the durty deed, so you can't punish us now! Men of an intolerable screed who seem unable to stay in their own space.

    Replies: @Barr

    “A dead professor and numerous defunct organisations were resurrected and used alongside at least 750 fake media outlets in a vast 15-year global disinformation campaign to serve Indian interests, a new investigation has revealed. “It is the largest network we have exposed,” said Alexandre Alaphilippe, executive director of EU DisinfoLab, which undertook the investigation and published an extensive report on Wednesday.
    The network was designed primarily to “discredit Pakistan internationally” and influence decision-making at the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) and European Parliament, EU DisinfoLab said. ”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-55232432

    That article failed to include the boasting of RSS-BJP that it could create news anytime anywhere to suit the objective of RSS and make it go viral all over the nation . Check with Amit Shah .

  182. @CCG
    @AltanBakshi

    The native Buddhist monks don't feel the same way about the demographic changes

    https://www.indepthnews.net/index.php/the-world/asia-pacific/2948-after-kashmir-sikkim-buddhists-fear-losing-their-special-constitutional-rights

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    You know you can find any kind of arguments in depths of internet. Theres never been more than 200 thousand Buddhists in Sikkim. But every year hundreds of thousands of Hindus convert to Buddhism, especially in Maharashtra and Karnataka, sometimes in UP. It would be quite hypocritical for me to cry about Sikkim in such situation.

    https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/mega-buddhism-conversion-event-planned-in-october-rpi-leader/article33595895.ece/amp/

    https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/557570/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/a-million-low-caste-hindus-to-convert-to-buddhism-1.334983?mode=amp

    https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/1500-dalits-convert-to-buddhism-seeking-social-equality

    https://wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/current-affairs/converted-buddhists-enjoy-better-literacy-gender-equality-than-sc-hindus-117070100255_1.html

    You can google yourself, unlike your dubious link, there are such conversion news everywhere from India, and you can find and almost all Indian major newspapers report about them, every year. And I know very well myself, I have lived in India, and when I was in Maharashtra, I was surprised by the huge amount of the converts, there are so many converts, that sometimes local Hindu priests and Brahmins get agitated. Even some Buddhists think that its possibly not good.

    Still most important thing is not, are we Buddhists or Hindus, the most important thing is that we have a religion that is suited to our psyche, and that our religion helps us to be better as people, and Buddhism doesnt deny gods, so the jump from Hindudharma to Buddhadharma or vice versa, isnt even so radical decision for the village folk. Unlike followers of semitic religions, we Buddhists believe that everyones faith must be his own free choice, that there should not be compulsion in religion, we and great masters of Jain and Hindudharma have always believed so, as also have Taoist and Confucian masters of China. Better to be a good Christian than a lazy Buddhist and vice versa, better to be a good Muslim than lazy Hindu and vice versa. Our religion has no value beyond the help it can give to humanity.

    Soon youll check the official number of Buddhists on India, thats around 10 million, or was ten years ago, yes its not much but vast majority of them are converts, and in many state local officials are not willing to register Buddhists as members of separate religion, so real number is probably nearer 20 million and growing. But anyway Buddhist mass conversions are a heated topic in some states there.

    By the way Presbyterians and Babtists are mockery of Christian religion. They are inspired by Christ but not really Christian, more like new religious movements, like Mormons and Jehovas.

    [MORE]

    Found some silly Calvinist memes

  183. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Why don't you bring your evidence here?. You cant open citation or link and now it seems you cant read English text also .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @AltanBakshi

    Why don’t you bring your evidence here?. You cant open citation or link and now it seems you cant read English text also .

    Its really like trying to communicate with a retard.

    See this link?

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal

    This link was posted by you.

    During the tyrannical reign of Rana Dynasty , government run a campaign to suppress the rise of Theravada Buddhism since they disapproved of Nepal Bhasa and Buddhism. The campaign took place in 1926 and 1944. The Rana Dynasty exiled 5 Buddhist monks in 1926 and 8 Buddhist monks in 1944. These Buddhist monks were at the front of the movement for the sole purpose of reviving Theravada Buddhism in Nepal.

    This citation is from the link that you yourself posted.

    Because you are a special one, I once again repeat, that citation can be found from this link that you previously posted here on this site:

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal

    [MORE]

    You Bashibuzuk have really too much love or some kind of strange reverence towards this faith, why they should love their god, when their god is not even good or humane, he literally isnt humane, or humanlike as the Christian God.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    LOL.

    You would notice that Muslims did not reply to my comments. And with good resons. If you think about it, you will certainly understand why. Basically, if they really follow their own religion, they would have to renounce living in the majority of the modern countries and go back to their Dar El Islam. It would be a planetary Apartheid with Muslims divided from the rest.

    But they don't really like it in their own countries and they know that even from the point of view of their own Deen there are many problems in need of urgent fixing in the Ummah. They should clean their corrupt mess at home before they complain of the treatment they receive at the hands of the unbelievers.

    They should ensure that they are themselves in line with their Shariah before they ask anything from anyone else. But they don't follow this straight religious logic of their creed, because they are Munafeekoon (hypocrites) and according to their Deen their abode will be the burning Hell for all eternity.

    Therefore they vastly deserve the way they are treated everywhere. It's their Karma.

    And Allah knows best...

    🙂

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @KA

    , @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    1 "A historical source mentions that no Bhikshus and Sravaskas were able to debate with Shankaracharya, but some of the lay Buddhists prepared to debate. Finally, they were defeated and some of them were put to death.73 He is said to have ordered the Bhikshunis to marry and forced the laymen to shave off the knot of hair on the crown of their heads while performing the chuda karma. It is also said that he put an end to many of their religious ceremonies. He also persecuted Buddhists at Manichuda mountain,74 which was Shankaracharya's triumph over the Buddhists of Nepal. During that time, Pashupati shrine was under the control of the Buddhists. They considered Pashupati Nath to be Avalokitesvara,75 and also celebrated Buddha's birth day (Buddha Jayanti) right at the shrine. He retook the shrine from the Buddhists and brought Nambudari Brahmins to serve as priests of Pashupati Nath from Kerala in India. ...but there is no epigraphic or other documentary evidence to support his visit, nor the claims that he persecuted the Buddhists of Nepal. Only traditional beliefs support this view.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251011521_History_of_Nepalese_Buddhism_From_Mythological_Tradition_to_the_Lichhavi_Period The history is consistent with the activities of Shankar in other part of Indian peninsula and is consistent with demise of Buddhism after Lacchivi period .

    2 Malla ruler (AD 1389 ) imposed strict social and legal code influenced by contemporary Hindu principles[on Nepalese ] Subdivided and fragmented Nepal came to be constantly attacked and occupied from southern region "By the 16th century virtually all these principalities were ruled by dynasties claiming high-caste Indian origin whose members had fled to the hills in the wake of Muslim invasions of northern India.” https://www.britannica.com/place/Nepal/Constitutional-monarchy. Buddhism faced the Hindu foreign royal antagonism from at least 1389 .

    3 In 19th century Nepal became a Hindu state when Rana made caste system law -David Ludden in India and South Asia A Short History .p-121


    1 "A powerful Hindu revival had rolled over the plains, extinguishing virtually all trace of the religion that had begun there.” https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/world/asia/nepal-india-buddha-kapilavastu.html


    2
    "Veteran politician Homnath Dahal, who was local development minister when King Gyanendra seized power in 2005, said his predecessor King Birendra ordered the army to knock down a statue of the Buddha built in western Nepal. According to the former minister, the king, who was regarded as an incarnation of a Hindu god and wielded absolute power, had ordered that foreigners would not be able to build Buddhist monasteries in Nepal except in Lumbini



    the government is yet to offer any financial assistance to its nearly 5,000 monasteries and Buddhist shrines though it has earmarked funds for four major Hindu institutions. The Nepal Buddhist Federation said in a recent press statement that harsh treatment to monks and nuns do not generally make news in Nepal. “On the contrary the monasteries and nunneries in general have been the subject of systematic negative media campaign... including such baseless allegation as possessing weapons,"


    : https://www.deccanherald.com/content/182255/nepal-king-ordered-destruction-buddha.html

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    I have read the entire article. Rana is being dishonest and disingenuous ingenious while still being unable to suppress the ground reality .
    . We have seen this in India where genuine activist has been branded as foreign provocateur trying to undermine the culture of Adivasi . We have seen similar "Rana “ in India who has gone out exhibiting false concern about Muslim Christian and forest dweller by expelling activists , NGO and human right organizations by labeling them as harmful to the interest of the Adivasi,C hroistain and Muslim people .


    So you can repeat million times and bat for Rana whose Hindu ancestors imposed caste system on country just less than 200 yrs ago to satisfy your psychological need for affirmation and to feel vindicated in trusting and having faith in an unjust system known as Hindubhatta whose origin goes back much earlier than the appearance of Sahnkara.

  184. @AltanBakshi
    @showmethereal

    My point is that you should not judge Indians so harshly for serving in the British Army, after all British Raj was seen as a legitimate government of India in the eyes of the world, unlike hanjian Wangs regime. There are also many Indians who see those who helped British as collaborators, but no matter what we think of the British, clearly those Han who served Japanese were greater traitors to their nation than Indians who served the British. Do you now understand?

    Replies: @showmethereal

    My point is the mentality of today right now. But I get it from your first sentence “should not judge Indians so harshly…..”
    Aside from a few in Taiwan and Hong Kong – Chinese are not groveling to be accepted by any former invader… India still bends over backward to be accepted in the Anglo world… Especially the US.

    My original point was that those links with Britain – such as serving proudly in the military in places like China – are what give some the air of superiority toward China. I didn’t say all – but certainly some. My original point as always was that prior to British colonialism in India… Indians and Chinese got along fairly well

  185. @Europe Europa
    @showmethereal

    If Tibet and Bhutan should be ruled from Beijing then morally and practically that's no different to saying Ireland should be ruled from London.

    The pro-Chinese argument seems to be that "they're basically the same" therefore the Tibetans should just shut up and accept Chinese rule because ambitions of a Tibetan state is petty and ridiculous, but surely you could say the same of the Irish and British rule?

    Replies: @showmethereal

    What are you blabbering about??? Tibet was ruled from Beijing for centuries. Dalai Lamas had to be approved from there for over 200 years. Bhutan is not on China’s jurisdictional nor sovereignty claims. What on earth does the point of ethnic cleansing in Bhutan have anything to do with China??? Some of you have a weird fetish for China. Did you even read what I wrote?? Or are certain terms like “China” or “Taiwan” or “Tibet” a dog whistle for you???

    What happens between Irish and British rule is their own business between them. Not for others to get involved in. Your ilk should learn a thing or two about that.
    Please tell me when the Brits were killing people on the streets of Belfast – what sanctions were imposed???. What countries wrote laws to protect the IRA from the “mean” British…???

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @showmethereal

    Eh the joint administration between Ganden Phodrang and Qing emperor was quite much more complicated than what you imply, and Tibet was not for over 200 years under the Qing, they were mostly autonomous, but there were short periods when the Manchu Ambans in Lhasa were in control, mostly when there was a some kind of crisis, like the attack of Nepalis or Sikhs and Dogras. During the Qing, Tibet never was under a direct provincial administration like the 18 provinces of China proper. Also it must be remembered that Tibet allegiance was to Manchu emperor, who was the patron and guardian of Buddhist religion, theres a large difference between allegiance to dynasty and to modern nation state.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/5th_Dalai_Lama_having_an_audience_with_Shunzhi.png/866px-5th_Dalai_Lama_having_an_audience_with_Shunzhi.png

    Here on this painting commissioned by the Qing court you can see the Great Fifth Dalai Lama visiting Shunzhi Emperor in Beijing.
    Dalai Lama was the only person in whole empire who did not need to prostrate before the emperor, unlike some modern Chinese, great emperors like Kangxi and Qianlong had wisdom and discernment to know who are worthy of reverence. They were men who created modern Chinas borders, they were the men who made China unparalleled military might of Eurasia, unlike the emperors of Ming or Song.


    Its extremely good that CCP is in control of China, Asian nationalists and ethnic chauvinists would make even hard core Balkan nationalists blush with embarrassment.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    , @Europe Europa
    @showmethereal

    Ireland was ruled from Britain for centuries. Who has imposed sanctions on China when they have been murdering people in Xinjiang for years?

    I see British history being attacked on this blog all the time, by people who are vehemently pro-China and pro-Russia and defend those countries when they've done morally exactly the same sort of thing.

    I'm not prepared to accept this idea that Britain is morally much worse than China and Russia when it just doesn't stack up, especially when the same slippery bastards who attack Britain over its history in Ireland would vehemently defend Russian colonisation of Siberia, Central Asia and Caucasus, or Chinese colonisation of Xinjiang and Tibet.

    There's no objectivity about it, many posters here just hate Britain/the Anglo world therefore all British history is by default bad and all British historical figures are by default evil. When Russia and China have done similar things they then go out of their way to try to moralise them and portray them as understandable and logical actions.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @showmethereal

  186. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @barr


    Why don’t you bring your evidence here?. You cant open citation or link and now it seems you cant read English text also .
     
    Its really like trying to communicate with a retard.

    See this link?

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal

    This link was posted by you.

    During the tyrannical reign of Rana Dynasty , government run a campaign to suppress the rise of Theravada Buddhism since they disapproved of Nepal Bhasa and Buddhism. The campaign took place in 1926 and 1944. The Rana Dynasty exiled 5 Buddhist monks in 1926 and 8 Buddhist monks in 1944. These Buddhist monks were at the front of the movement for the sole purpose of reviving Theravada Buddhism in Nepal.
     
    This citation is from the link that you yourself posted.

    Because you are a special one, I once again repeat, that citation can be found from this link that you previously posted here on this site:

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal



    You Bashibuzuk have really too much love or some kind of strange reverence towards this faith, why they should love their god, when their god is not even good or humane, he literally isnt humane, or humanlike as the Christian God.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @barr, @barr

    LOL.

    You would notice that Muslims did not reply to my comments. And with good resons. If you think about it, you will certainly understand why. Basically, if they really follow their own religion, they would have to renounce living in the majority of the modern countries and go back to their Dar El Islam. It would be a planetary Apartheid with Muslims divided from the rest.

    But they don’t really like it in their own countries and they know that even from the point of view of their own Deen there are many problems in need of urgent fixing in the Ummah. They should clean their corrupt mess at home before they complain of the treatment they receive at the hands of the unbelievers.

    They should ensure that they are themselves in line with their Shariah before they ask anything from anyone else. But they don’t follow this straight religious logic of their creed, because they are Munafeekoon (hypocrites) and according to their Deen their abode will be the burning Hell for all eternity.

    Therefore they vastly deserve the way they are treated everywhere. It’s their Karma.

    And Allah knows best…

    🙂

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    I notice now, it would be good to have that power to disperse confused Muslims.
    But hasnt their religion changed after the caliphate? Because its true that there were lots of Muslims in Medieval China. Were they openly hypocrites? I have understood that they have now different categories than just the house of Islam and house of war, nowadays, like house of truce or something like that.

    I hope that you dont have a deterministic attitude towards the karma, the poor muslims are more like on a very long trip, or on a dream, where they believe that things exist truly in some way, but one day they will wake up. How we see them is also our karma, we really have a toxic relationship with them, oh well I just dont know how to help them, or if any of us even has any capability to help them.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @KA
    @Bashibuzuk

    Koran, Hadith,Sunna, Shariah have guided the way Muslims should live anywhere . Fiqh is the interpretative aspect that has changed within the golden years of Islam depending on the context .

    Muslims lived as it has been mentioned under Hindus ,under Buddhist and obviously under Christian over many centuries without facing the dilemma of religious transgression.

    Islamic law does not say to leave unless life and faith are at stake . Chinese never threatened .Most of the times Hindu rulers ( unless we in crude Kingdom of Vijyanagar in its earlier days of existence .) did not because of fear of retribution by other powerful muslim kings. Obviously Kashmir Hindu king had that objective in mind -to expel ,to convert into 4th underclass or to turn Islam to a shadow of Islam just as it was done to Buddhism over many centuries . Today RSS-BJP tries to refer the ideas of Sharaih the way they see it fit and useful to expel or convert Muslim to 4th or 5th class of the society.

    By the way Dar ul Harb is much safer space and concept fro non Mulsim than the concept of Aryabhatta ever was . Ask Patanjali. Outside Aryabhtta area came Buddhsim from .Those areas were depicted by Hindu scholars as demon and animal like human (Asura ) infested .


    Nepal is a case study that shows how Hinduism has obliterated popular Buddhism by physical forces . Indian Hindu fugitives came to rule Nepal and imposes foreign Hinduism on them .
    Today Nepal is 90% Hindu and it will be impossible to take for them not to be partisan ti Hindu narrative . But now and then it still shows up and exposes the difficult and ultimately fatal journey of
    Buddhism under the yoke of Hinduism .

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

  187. @showmethereal
    @Europe Europa

    What are you blabbering about??? Tibet was ruled from Beijing for centuries. Dalai Lamas had to be approved from there for over 200 years. Bhutan is not on China's jurisdictional nor sovereignty claims. What on earth does the point of ethnic cleansing in Bhutan have anything to do with China??? Some of you have a weird fetish for China. Did you even read what I wrote?? Or are certain terms like "China" or "Taiwan" or "Tibet" a dog whistle for you???

    What happens between Irish and British rule is their own business between them. Not for others to get involved in. Your ilk should learn a thing or two about that.
    Please tell me when the Brits were killing people on the streets of Belfast - what sanctions were imposed???. What countries wrote laws to protect the IRA from the "mean" British...???

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Europe Europa

    Eh the joint administration between Ganden Phodrang and Qing emperor was quite much more complicated than what you imply, and Tibet was not for over 200 years under the Qing, they were mostly autonomous, but there were short periods when the Manchu Ambans in Lhasa were in control, mostly when there was a some kind of crisis, like the attack of Nepalis or Sikhs and Dogras. During the Qing, Tibet never was under a direct provincial administration like the 18 provinces of China proper. Also it must be remembered that Tibet allegiance was to Manchu emperor, who was the patron and guardian of Buddhist religion, theres a large difference between allegiance to dynasty and to modern nation state.

    Here on this painting commissioned by the Qing court you can see the Great Fifth Dalai Lama visiting Shunzhi Emperor in Beijing.
    Dalai Lama was the only person in whole empire who did not need to prostrate before the emperor, unlike some modern Chinese, great emperors like Kangxi and Qianlong had wisdom and discernment to know who are worthy of reverence. They were men who created modern Chinas borders, they were the men who made China unparalleled military might of Eurasia, unlike the emperors of Ming or Song.

    [MORE]

    Its extremely good that CCP is in control of China, Asian nationalists and ethnic chauvinists would make even hard core Balkan nationalists blush with embarrassment.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @AltanBakshi

    It's much more complicated than this forum... Tibet and China interactions go back over 1000 years. The Tibetan Empire tried to attack the Tang Dynasty but lost. They were proposed a marriage of convenience even back then. The Qing let Tibetans govern themselves (which is why the PRC offers "autonomous regions") but ultimate sovereignty rested in Beijing - and that's why the Brits made the Qing pay for the restitution when they had the skirmish with the Tibetans. Should the Qing just wiped out Tibetan people and culture - instead of letting them had been autonomous???

    But if people play the game then they should judge everyone by the same function. It is a fact that in 1911 when the Qing Dynasty ended - aside from the British - who just wanted to keep the new Republic of China off balance like they did the Qing - nobody else considered Tibet a nation. It was accepted as Chinese territory. Had the CPC not beat the KMT and run them off to Taiwan - nobody would care anything about Tibetan independence... Just the same they don't care about Northeast India.

  188. @AltanBakshi
    @barr


    Why don’t you bring your evidence here?. You cant open citation or link and now it seems you cant read English text also .
     
    Its really like trying to communicate with a retard.

    See this link?

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal

    This link was posted by you.

    During the tyrannical reign of Rana Dynasty , government run a campaign to suppress the rise of Theravada Buddhism since they disapproved of Nepal Bhasa and Buddhism. The campaign took place in 1926 and 1944. The Rana Dynasty exiled 5 Buddhist monks in 1926 and 8 Buddhist monks in 1944. These Buddhist monks were at the front of the movement for the sole purpose of reviving Theravada Buddhism in Nepal.
     
    This citation is from the link that you yourself posted.

    Because you are a special one, I once again repeat, that citation can be found from this link that you previously posted here on this site:

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal



    You Bashibuzuk have really too much love or some kind of strange reverence towards this faith, why they should love their god, when their god is not even good or humane, he literally isnt humane, or humanlike as the Christian God.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @barr, @barr

    1 “A historical source mentions that no Bhikshus and Sravaskas were able to debate with Shankaracharya, but some of the lay Buddhists prepared to debate. Finally, they were defeated and some of them were put to death.73 He is said to have ordered the Bhikshunis to marry and forced the laymen to shave off the knot of hair on the crown of their heads while performing the chuda karma. It is also said that he put an end to many of their religious ceremonies. He also persecuted Buddhists at Manichuda mountain,74 which was Shankaracharya’s triumph over the Buddhists of Nepal. During that time, Pashupati shrine was under the control of the Buddhists. They considered Pashupati Nath to be Avalokitesvara,75 and also celebrated Buddha’s birth day (Buddha Jayanti) right at the shrine. He retook the shrine from the Buddhists and brought Nambudari Brahmins to serve as priests of Pashupati Nath from Kerala in India. …but there is no epigraphic or other documentary evidence to support his visit, nor the claims that he persecuted the Buddhists of Nepal. Only traditional beliefs support this view.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251011521_History_of_Nepalese_Buddhism_From_Mythological_Tradition_to_the_Lichhavi_Period The history is consistent with the activities of Shankar in other part of Indian peninsula and is consistent with demise of Buddhism after Lacchivi period .

    2 Malla ruler (AD 1389 ) imposed strict social and legal code influenced by contemporary Hindu principles[on Nepalese ] Subdivided and fragmented Nepal came to be constantly attacked and occupied from southern region “By the 16th century virtually all these principalities were ruled by dynasties claiming high-caste Indian origin whose members had fled to the hills in the wake of Muslim invasions of northern India.” https://www.britannica.com/place/Nepal/Constitutional-monarchy. Buddhism faced the Hindu foreign royal antagonism from at least 1389 .

    3 In 19th century Nepal became a Hindu state when Rana made caste system law -David Ludden in India and South Asia A Short History .p-121

    1 “A powerful Hindu revival had rolled over the plains, extinguishing virtually all trace of the religion that had begun there.” https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/world/asia/nepal-india-buddha-kapilavastu.html

    2
    “Veteran politician Homnath Dahal, who was local development minister when King Gyanendra seized power in 2005, said his predecessor King Birendra ordered the army to knock down a statue of the Buddha built in western Nepal. According to the former minister, the king, who was regarded as an incarnation of a Hindu god and wielded absolute power, had ordered that foreigners would not be able to build Buddhist monasteries in Nepal except in Lumbini

    the government is yet to offer any financial assistance to its nearly 5,000 monasteries and Buddhist shrines though it has earmarked funds for four major Hindu institutions. The Nepal Buddhist Federation said in a recent press statement that harsh treatment to monks and nuns do not generally make news in Nepal. “On the contrary the monasteries and nunneries in general have been the subject of systematic negative media campaign… including such baseless allegation as possessing weapons,”

    : https://www.deccanherald.com/content/182255/nepal-king-ordered-destruction-buddha.html

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    No matter how much you lie, and post links that you dont even yourself read, the fact is that I can walk everywhere in Delhi, Pune, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Kolkata, Dehra Dun and say that Im Buddhist, even shout noisily to everybody that Im Buddhist, maybe people would think that Im strange, but I would never do that in Karachi or Peshawar, or in Kabul or Teheran, not even if some one would pay me a hundred thousand dollars. You know very well why. So you can continue lying or deceiving yourself, but in your innermost heart you know the truth, and one day truth shall set you free.

    Replies: @barr

  189. @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    LOL.

    You would notice that Muslims did not reply to my comments. And with good resons. If you think about it, you will certainly understand why. Basically, if they really follow their own religion, they would have to renounce living in the majority of the modern countries and go back to their Dar El Islam. It would be a planetary Apartheid with Muslims divided from the rest.

    But they don't really like it in their own countries and they know that even from the point of view of their own Deen there are many problems in need of urgent fixing in the Ummah. They should clean their corrupt mess at home before they complain of the treatment they receive at the hands of the unbelievers.

    They should ensure that they are themselves in line with their Shariah before they ask anything from anyone else. But they don't follow this straight religious logic of their creed, because they are Munafeekoon (hypocrites) and according to their Deen their abode will be the burning Hell for all eternity.

    Therefore they vastly deserve the way they are treated everywhere. It's their Karma.

    And Allah knows best...

    🙂

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @KA

    I notice now, it would be good to have that power to disperse confused Muslims.
    But hasnt their religion changed after the caliphate? Because its true that there were lots of Muslims in Medieval China. Were they openly hypocrites? I have understood that they have now different categories than just the house of Islam and house of war, nowadays, like house of truce or something like that.

    I hope that you dont have a deterministic attitude towards the karma, the poor muslims are more like on a very long trip, or on a dream, where they believe that things exist truly in some way, but one day they will wake up. How we see them is also our karma, we really have a toxic relationship with them, oh well I just dont know how to help them, or if any of us even has any capability to help them.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    There are different tareekahs and madaheebs in Islam. Islam is far from being a monolithic teaching, there are different schools, interprétations by learned scholars. Some of these interprétations are actually quite compatible with some aspects of the Dharmic traditions. Therefore we don't really need being ennemies.

    But the problem with modern Muslims is that they are mainly members of a degenerate community that has lost its way (they actually agree with that: they call the current state of the Ummah Ahd El Inhitat = the Age of decadence). They are ignorant, confused, insecure. As a consequence they are also often aggressive and hypocritical.

    If they fix their ways according to the best practices of their creed, then the whole World will be a better place Inch'a Allah.

    Finally, I have no animosity towards them. After all, they also have Buddha Nature deep inside. They call it El Fitrah in some of their more advanced traditions. Those who get awakened to its presence follow the Straight Path (Sirat Al Mustaqeem).

  190. @showmethereal
    @Europe Europa

    What are you blabbering about??? Tibet was ruled from Beijing for centuries. Dalai Lamas had to be approved from there for over 200 years. Bhutan is not on China's jurisdictional nor sovereignty claims. What on earth does the point of ethnic cleansing in Bhutan have anything to do with China??? Some of you have a weird fetish for China. Did you even read what I wrote?? Or are certain terms like "China" or "Taiwan" or "Tibet" a dog whistle for you???

    What happens between Irish and British rule is their own business between them. Not for others to get involved in. Your ilk should learn a thing or two about that.
    Please tell me when the Brits were killing people on the streets of Belfast - what sanctions were imposed???. What countries wrote laws to protect the IRA from the "mean" British...???

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Europe Europa

    Ireland was ruled from Britain for centuries. Who has imposed sanctions on China when they have been murdering people in Xinjiang for years?

    I see British history being attacked on this blog all the time, by people who are vehemently pro-China and pro-Russia and defend those countries when they’ve done morally exactly the same sort of thing.

    I’m not prepared to accept this idea that Britain is morally much worse than China and Russia when it just doesn’t stack up, especially when the same slippery bastards who attack Britain over its history in Ireland would vehemently defend Russian colonisation of Siberia, Central Asia and Caucasus, or Chinese colonisation of Xinjiang and Tibet.

    There’s no objectivity about it, many posters here just hate Britain/the Anglo world therefore all British history is by default bad and all British historical figures are by default evil. When Russia and China have done similar things they then go out of their way to try to moralise them and portray them as understandable and logical actions.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Europe Europa

    English rule over Ireland started long before Russias conquest of Siberia or Ukraine, and long long before the 1720s when Qing came to Tibet proper. But thats only if we can claim that the Norman rule of Ireland that began in the 12th century, was same as the Elizabethan rule of Ireland, that there was some kind of administrative continuum? Were English even English in the 12th century? Or were they Anglo-Saxons under a Norman yoke

    , @showmethereal
    @Europe Europa

    Who has been murdering people in Xinjiang for years except Islamic extremists?? Do you have any clue what you are saying???

    Also - which part do you not get where I said what happens between Ireland and Britain is there business??? Did you even read the comment???? Or is it a comprehension issue??

    And are you seriously comparing Anglo imperialism to that of Russia and China??? Who is the one who said the sun never set on their empire..???? But yeah - don't be mad at Russia and China because they were smart enough to keep their empire close to their center of power.

  191. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    1 "A historical source mentions that no Bhikshus and Sravaskas were able to debate with Shankaracharya, but some of the lay Buddhists prepared to debate. Finally, they were defeated and some of them were put to death.73 He is said to have ordered the Bhikshunis to marry and forced the laymen to shave off the knot of hair on the crown of their heads while performing the chuda karma. It is also said that he put an end to many of their religious ceremonies. He also persecuted Buddhists at Manichuda mountain,74 which was Shankaracharya's triumph over the Buddhists of Nepal. During that time, Pashupati shrine was under the control of the Buddhists. They considered Pashupati Nath to be Avalokitesvara,75 and also celebrated Buddha's birth day (Buddha Jayanti) right at the shrine. He retook the shrine from the Buddhists and brought Nambudari Brahmins to serve as priests of Pashupati Nath from Kerala in India. ...but there is no epigraphic or other documentary evidence to support his visit, nor the claims that he persecuted the Buddhists of Nepal. Only traditional beliefs support this view.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251011521_History_of_Nepalese_Buddhism_From_Mythological_Tradition_to_the_Lichhavi_Period The history is consistent with the activities of Shankar in other part of Indian peninsula and is consistent with demise of Buddhism after Lacchivi period .

    2 Malla ruler (AD 1389 ) imposed strict social and legal code influenced by contemporary Hindu principles[on Nepalese ] Subdivided and fragmented Nepal came to be constantly attacked and occupied from southern region "By the 16th century virtually all these principalities were ruled by dynasties claiming high-caste Indian origin whose members had fled to the hills in the wake of Muslim invasions of northern India.” https://www.britannica.com/place/Nepal/Constitutional-monarchy. Buddhism faced the Hindu foreign royal antagonism from at least 1389 .

    3 In 19th century Nepal became a Hindu state when Rana made caste system law -David Ludden in India and South Asia A Short History .p-121


    1 "A powerful Hindu revival had rolled over the plains, extinguishing virtually all trace of the religion that had begun there.” https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/world/asia/nepal-india-buddha-kapilavastu.html


    2
    "Veteran politician Homnath Dahal, who was local development minister when King Gyanendra seized power in 2005, said his predecessor King Birendra ordered the army to knock down a statue of the Buddha built in western Nepal. According to the former minister, the king, who was regarded as an incarnation of a Hindu god and wielded absolute power, had ordered that foreigners would not be able to build Buddhist monasteries in Nepal except in Lumbini



    the government is yet to offer any financial assistance to its nearly 5,000 monasteries and Buddhist shrines though it has earmarked funds for four major Hindu institutions. The Nepal Buddhist Federation said in a recent press statement that harsh treatment to monks and nuns do not generally make news in Nepal. “On the contrary the monasteries and nunneries in general have been the subject of systematic negative media campaign... including such baseless allegation as possessing weapons,"


    : https://www.deccanherald.com/content/182255/nepal-king-ordered-destruction-buddha.html

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    No matter how much you lie, and post links that you dont even yourself read, the fact is that I can walk everywhere in Delhi, Pune, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Kolkata, Dehra Dun and say that Im Buddhist, even shout noisily to everybody that Im Buddhist, maybe people would think that Im strange, but I would never do that in Karachi or Peshawar, or in Kabul or Teheran, not even if some one would pay me a hundred thousand dollars. You know very well why. So you can continue lying or deceiving yourself, but in your innermost heart you know the truth, and one day truth shall set you free.

    • Replies: @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Try to shout that you area muslim . Just try .

    .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  192. @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    LOL.

    You would notice that Muslims did not reply to my comments. And with good resons. If you think about it, you will certainly understand why. Basically, if they really follow their own religion, they would have to renounce living in the majority of the modern countries and go back to their Dar El Islam. It would be a planetary Apartheid with Muslims divided from the rest.

    But they don't really like it in their own countries and they know that even from the point of view of their own Deen there are many problems in need of urgent fixing in the Ummah. They should clean their corrupt mess at home before they complain of the treatment they receive at the hands of the unbelievers.

    They should ensure that they are themselves in line with their Shariah before they ask anything from anyone else. But they don't follow this straight religious logic of their creed, because they are Munafeekoon (hypocrites) and according to their Deen their abode will be the burning Hell for all eternity.

    Therefore they vastly deserve the way they are treated everywhere. It's their Karma.

    And Allah knows best...

    🙂

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @KA

    Koran, Hadith,Sunna, Shariah have guided the way Muslims should live anywhere . Fiqh is the interpretative aspect that has changed within the golden years of Islam depending on the context .

    Muslims lived as it has been mentioned under Hindus ,under Buddhist and obviously under Christian over many centuries without facing the dilemma of religious transgression.

    Islamic law does not say to leave unless life and faith are at stake . Chinese never threatened .Most of the times Hindu rulers ( unless we in crude Kingdom of Vijyanagar in its earlier days of existence .) did not because of fear of retribution by other powerful muslim kings. Obviously Kashmir Hindu king had that objective in mind -to expel ,to convert into 4th underclass or to turn Islam to a shadow of Islam just as it was done to Buddhism over many centuries . Today RSS-BJP tries to refer the ideas of Sharaih the way they see it fit and useful to expel or convert Muslim to 4th or 5th class of the society.

    By the way Dar ul Harb is much safer space and concept fro non Mulsim than the concept of Aryabhatta ever was . Ask Patanjali. Outside Aryabhtta area came Buddhsim from .Those areas were depicted by Hindu scholars as demon and animal like human (Asura ) infested .

    Nepal is a case study that shows how Hinduism has obliterated popular Buddhism by physical forces . Indian Hindu fugitives came to rule Nepal and imposes foreign Hinduism on them .
    Today Nepal is 90% Hindu and it will be impossible to take for them not to be partisan ti Hindu narrative . But now and then it still shows up and exposes the difficult and ultimately fatal journey of
    Buddhism under the yoke of Hinduism .

    • Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @KA


    Koran, Hadith,Sunna, Shariah have guided the way Muslims should live anywhere. Fiqh is the interpretative aspect that has changed within the golden years of Islam depending on the context.

     

    What happened to Buddhism in Afghanistan? Let me guess, they all willingly converted after taking in the glories of submission to Allah? And later their descendants went on to hate Buddhism with a passion due to coming closer with Allah and his divine word after all these generations?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg

    Replies: @Barr

  193. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    No matter how much you lie, and post links that you dont even yourself read, the fact is that I can walk everywhere in Delhi, Pune, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Kolkata, Dehra Dun and say that Im Buddhist, even shout noisily to everybody that Im Buddhist, maybe people would think that Im strange, but I would never do that in Karachi or Peshawar, or in Kabul or Teheran, not even if some one would pay me a hundred thousand dollars. You know very well why. So you can continue lying or deceiving yourself, but in your innermost heart you know the truth, and one day truth shall set you free.

    Replies: @barr

    Try to shout that you area muslim . Just try .

    .

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    I would not shout that everywhere in India, but in big cities, why not, India is not anywhere such place as your propaganda tells it to be, just check how many tourists did go there every year before corona.


    But the problem with modern Muslims is that they are mainly members of a degenerate community that has lost its way (they actually agree with that: they call the current state of the Ummah Ahd El Inhitat = the Age of decadence). They are ignorant, confused, insecure. As a consequence they are also often aggressive and hypocritical.

    If they fix their ways according to the best practices of their creed, then the whole World will be a better place Inch’a Allah.
     

    Bashibuzuk Islam has a problematic core, their beginnings and early history, are quite problematic in the eyes of the civilized people or other religions, therefore its much harder to build on such foundations anything beneficial for the mankind, of course its possible, but still at what cost? You cant have much integrity as a religious person if you try to explain every act of Muhammeds violence in mystical terms. Or so it seems to me, you clearly are much more knowledgeable about Islam, so maybe you know how some learned sufis deal with contradictions.

    Oh by the way Muslims, I would have no problems if one of my children or siblings would convert to Hinduism, (apostolic) Christianity, Taoism or Sikhism, as long as they are happy, but I would have quite a problem if some one of my relatives would convert to Islam, why is that? In your heart you know the answer...

    You really are such petty liars, you very well know that apostasy is a death sentence in Islam and Pakistan. Is it in India? Hell no! Hey you can extrapolate from that fact alone how Muslims have behaved towards other religions. Theres no better sign of cult, than threatening with violence those who want to leave the cult.

    Replies: @Barr, @Bashibuzuk

  194. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    I notice now, it would be good to have that power to disperse confused Muslims.
    But hasnt their religion changed after the caliphate? Because its true that there were lots of Muslims in Medieval China. Were they openly hypocrites? I have understood that they have now different categories than just the house of Islam and house of war, nowadays, like house of truce or something like that.

    I hope that you dont have a deterministic attitude towards the karma, the poor muslims are more like on a very long trip, or on a dream, where they believe that things exist truly in some way, but one day they will wake up. How we see them is also our karma, we really have a toxic relationship with them, oh well I just dont know how to help them, or if any of us even has any capability to help them.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    There are different tareekahs and madaheebs in Islam. Islam is far from being a monolithic teaching, there are different schools, interprétations by learned scholars. Some of these interprétations are actually quite compatible with some aspects of the Dharmic traditions. Therefore we don’t really need being ennemies.

    But the problem with modern Muslims is that they are mainly members of a degenerate community that has lost its way (they actually agree with that: they call the current state of the Ummah Ahd El Inhitat = the Age of decadence). They are ignorant, confused, insecure. As a consequence they are also often aggressive and hypocritical.

    If they fix their ways according to the best practices of their creed, then the whole World will be a better place Inch’a Allah.

    Finally, I have no animosity towards them. After all, they also have Buddha Nature deep inside. They call it El Fitrah in some of their more advanced traditions. Those who get awakened to its presence follow the Straight Path (Sirat Al Mustaqeem).

  195. @AltanBakshi
    @barr


    Why don’t you bring your evidence here?. You cant open citation or link and now it seems you cant read English text also .
     
    Its really like trying to communicate with a retard.

    See this link?

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal

    This link was posted by you.

    During the tyrannical reign of Rana Dynasty , government run a campaign to suppress the rise of Theravada Buddhism since they disapproved of Nepal Bhasa and Buddhism. The campaign took place in 1926 and 1944. The Rana Dynasty exiled 5 Buddhist monks in 1926 and 8 Buddhist monks in 1944. These Buddhist monks were at the front of the movement for the sole purpose of reviving Theravada Buddhism in Nepal.
     
    This citation is from the link that you yourself posted.

    Because you are a special one, I once again repeat, that citation can be found from this link that you previously posted here on this site:

    https://www.burmese-art.com/blog/buddhism-in-nepal



    You Bashibuzuk have really too much love or some kind of strange reverence towards this faith, why they should love their god, when their god is not even good or humane, he literally isnt humane, or humanlike as the Christian God.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @barr, @barr

    I have read the entire article. Rana is being dishonest and disingenuous ingenious while still being unable to suppress the ground reality .
    . We have seen this in India where genuine activist has been branded as foreign provocateur trying to undermine the culture of Adivasi . We have seen similar “Rana “ in India who has gone out exhibiting false concern about Muslim Christian and forest dweller by expelling activists , NGO and human right organizations by labeling them as harmful to the interest of the Adivasi,C hroistain and Muslim people .

    So you can repeat million times and bat for Rana whose Hindu ancestors imposed caste system on country just less than 200 yrs ago to satisfy your psychological need for affirmation and to feel vindicated in trusting and having faith in an unjust system known as Hindubhatta whose origin goes back much earlier than the appearance of Sahnkara.

  196. @Europe Europa
    @showmethereal

    Ireland was ruled from Britain for centuries. Who has imposed sanctions on China when they have been murdering people in Xinjiang for years?

    I see British history being attacked on this blog all the time, by people who are vehemently pro-China and pro-Russia and defend those countries when they've done morally exactly the same sort of thing.

    I'm not prepared to accept this idea that Britain is morally much worse than China and Russia when it just doesn't stack up, especially when the same slippery bastards who attack Britain over its history in Ireland would vehemently defend Russian colonisation of Siberia, Central Asia and Caucasus, or Chinese colonisation of Xinjiang and Tibet.

    There's no objectivity about it, many posters here just hate Britain/the Anglo world therefore all British history is by default bad and all British historical figures are by default evil. When Russia and China have done similar things they then go out of their way to try to moralise them and portray them as understandable and logical actions.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @showmethereal

    English rule over Ireland started long before Russias conquest of Siberia or Ukraine, and long long before the 1720s when Qing came to Tibet proper. But thats only if we can claim that the Norman rule of Ireland that began in the 12th century, was same as the Elizabethan rule of Ireland, that there was some kind of administrative continuum? Were English even English in the 12th century? Or were they Anglo-Saxons under a Norman yoke

  197. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Try to shout that you area muslim . Just try .

    .

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    I would not shout that everywhere in India, but in big cities, why not, India is not anywhere such place as your propaganda tells it to be, just check how many tourists did go there every year before corona.

    But the problem with modern Muslims is that they are mainly members of a degenerate community that has lost its way (they actually agree with that: they call the current state of the Ummah Ahd El Inhitat = the Age of decadence). They are ignorant, confused, insecure. As a consequence they are also often aggressive and hypocritical.

    If they fix their ways according to the best practices of their creed, then the whole World will be a better place Inch’a Allah.

    Bashibuzuk Islam has a problematic core, their beginnings and early history, are quite problematic in the eyes of the civilized people or other religions, therefore its much harder to build on such foundations anything beneficial for the mankind, of course its possible, but still at what cost? You cant have much integrity as a religious person if you try to explain every act of Muhammeds violence in mystical terms. Or so it seems to me, you clearly are much more knowledgeable about Islam, so maybe you know how some learned sufis deal with contradictions.

    Oh by the way Muslims, I would have no problems if one of my children or siblings would convert to Hinduism, (apostolic) Christianity, Taoism or Sikhism, as long as they are happy, but I would have quite a problem if some one of my relatives would convert to Islam, why is that? In your heart you know the answer…

    You really are such petty liars, you very well know that apostasy is a death sentence in Islam and Pakistan. Is it in India? Hell no! Hey you can extrapolate from that fact alone how Muslims have behaved towards other religions. Theres no better sign of cult, than threatening with violence those who want to leave the cult.

    • Replies: @Barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Who cares about what you think to your son's epiphany? People leave and embrace religion for many reasons -spiritual, financial, career ,and even for sex ( re- Hema Malini ) . But Hinduism doesn't attract any new convert because its a system of financial political and social control maintained by tribal family and caste concept .

    Hello liar if apostasy were death in historical Islam - how come Maimonades could live as Jews after converting from Judaism to Islam and then back to Judaism or BJP muslims leaders like Bhakt and Naqvi or the wife of George Fernandez or Md Chagla despite official and in practical being an apostate ?

    How could the Muslims officials of Bengal 's muslim royal family leave islam follow Chaityna Dev openly ?

    Also- ' On the other hand ,so many muslims converted to Hinduism that Shah Jahan established a department with it and forbade any proselytizing by Hindus. Under Jehangir 23 Muslims converted to Hinduism .Under Shah Jehan ,Muslim in Kashmir married Hindu boys and converted to Hinduism
    in 15 th century Brahmin established system to reconvert muslim back to Hindusim " - p 546 The Hindus An Alternative Story by Wendy Doniger


    During the time of the early years of Islam, people left Islam and embraced other religion .



    But if any of the apostate betrayed the state secrets jeopardizing the safety of the community ,apostasy was met with death .Even today treason carries death sentences in many countries .

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @AltanBakshi

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi


    maybe you know how some learned sufis deal with contradictions.
     
    There are many ways to circumnavigate the Islamic contradictions without becoming an outright hypocrite. These adaptative strategies depend on the different approaches pioneered by different tariqas. Basically, Islam is very much relying on Fiqh, the jurisprudence interpretation by the learned scholars (ie Fuqaha). This is due to Islam being a social and political as much as a religious system.

    Although not as extreme as the interpretation of the Talmud in Judaism, the interpretation of Shariah, which is always based on the tradition of exegesis (Tafsir), is quite complex. A typically Semitic hair-splitting, if you ask me.

    The Sufi usually take into account the spiritual and psychological factors. This allows for a more adaptative strategies, while still staying quite rigorous on the basic aspects of their faith. Of course a lot of people in the West think that Sufis are some peaceniks, but they're not. Sufi orders have played an important role in Islamic fight against the West and an even greater role in Islamisation of Centrsl and South Eastern Asia.

    Anyway, Islam is very interesting and complex, it's a pity most Muslims are boring and primitive.

    🙂
  198. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    I would not shout that everywhere in India, but in big cities, why not, India is not anywhere such place as your propaganda tells it to be, just check how many tourists did go there every year before corona.


    But the problem with modern Muslims is that they are mainly members of a degenerate community that has lost its way (they actually agree with that: they call the current state of the Ummah Ahd El Inhitat = the Age of decadence). They are ignorant, confused, insecure. As a consequence they are also often aggressive and hypocritical.

    If they fix their ways according to the best practices of their creed, then the whole World will be a better place Inch’a Allah.
     

    Bashibuzuk Islam has a problematic core, their beginnings and early history, are quite problematic in the eyes of the civilized people or other religions, therefore its much harder to build on such foundations anything beneficial for the mankind, of course its possible, but still at what cost? You cant have much integrity as a religious person if you try to explain every act of Muhammeds violence in mystical terms. Or so it seems to me, you clearly are much more knowledgeable about Islam, so maybe you know how some learned sufis deal with contradictions.

    Oh by the way Muslims, I would have no problems if one of my children or siblings would convert to Hinduism, (apostolic) Christianity, Taoism or Sikhism, as long as they are happy, but I would have quite a problem if some one of my relatives would convert to Islam, why is that? In your heart you know the answer...

    You really are such petty liars, you very well know that apostasy is a death sentence in Islam and Pakistan. Is it in India? Hell no! Hey you can extrapolate from that fact alone how Muslims have behaved towards other religions. Theres no better sign of cult, than threatening with violence those who want to leave the cult.

    Replies: @Barr, @Bashibuzuk

    Who cares about what you think to your son’s epiphany? People leave and embrace religion for many reasons -spiritual, financial, career ,and even for sex ( re- Hema Malini ) . But Hinduism doesn’t attract any new convert because its a system of financial political and social control maintained by tribal family and caste concept .

    Hello liar if apostasy were death in historical Islam – how come Maimonades could live as Jews after converting from Judaism to Islam and then back to Judaism or BJP muslims leaders like Bhakt and Naqvi or the wife of George Fernandez or Md Chagla despite official and in practical being an apostate ?

    How could the Muslims officials of Bengal ‘s muslim royal family leave islam follow Chaityna Dev openly ?

    Also- ‘ On the other hand ,so many muslims converted to Hinduism that Shah Jahan established a department with it and forbade any proselytizing by Hindus. Under Jehangir 23 Muslims converted to Hinduism .Under Shah Jehan ,Muslim in Kashmir married Hindu boys and converted to Hinduism
    in 15 th century Brahmin established system to reconvert muslim back to Hindusim ” – p 546 The Hindus An Alternative Story by Wendy Doniger

    During the time of the early years of Islam, people left Islam and embraced other religion .

    But if any of the apostate betrayed the state secrets jeopardizing the safety of the community ,apostasy was met with death .Even today treason carries death sentences in many countries .

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Barr


    Maimonades could live as Jews after converting from Judaism to Islam and then back to Judaism
     
    Citation please?

    I was not aware of Mosshe Ben Maimon ever claiming being Muslim. Although it is true that the Al Muwaheedun (Almohade) dynasty having indeed imposed a mass conversion to Maghrebi Jewish and Christian communities. They successfully converted the majority of Christians, but lamentably failed with the Jews.

    🙂

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @AltanBakshi
    @Barr

    Little bit of googling and see what I could find, and this is only a small sliver of crimes and transgressions committed in your country. Through many years I have read again, and again about the crimes of your people, and I rarely read Indian newspapers. Not just your Hindus, but even your Christians and Muslim minorities like Shias and Ahmadiyyas live in fear. Even though your Quaid-i-Azam was Shia. I know, you all believe that he was Sunni, and your schools brainwash you to believe so. If Jinnah would see now the state of Pakistan, and how the Shias are treated there, he would be in deep pain and thoroughly disappointed, still its good for us others that your country exists, its like a quarantine zone or reservation for dangerous and violent retards.

    http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/1860/actXLVof1860.html#f108

    Pakistani Penal Code 295-C.
    Use of derogatory remarks, etc., in respect of the Holy Prophet:
    Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.


    "By any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or undirectly,"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9161739/amp/Christian-girl-12-kidnapped-raped-chained-man-45-Pakistan-rescued.html

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/pakistan-s-forced-conversions-brings-shame-on-imran-khan/amp

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1600385

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/1/6/wadi-e-hussain-a-graveyard-for-pakistani-shia

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2014/5/17/living-in-fear-under-pakistans-blasphemy-law

    https://www.economist.com/asia/2014/11/27/bad-mouthing

    http://www.thepersecution.org/archive/9.html

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistani-christians-islam-lynching-trial-muslims-convert-youhanabad-lahore-church-bombings-a7659721.html

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-25874580

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-12617562

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/18/pakistan-textbooks-religious-extremism

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2014/8/18/forced-conversions-torment-pakistans-hindus

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/51401-1000-girls-forcibly-converted-to-islam-in-pakistan-every-year

    https://apnews.com/article/karachi-pakistan-coronavirus-pandemic-christianity-marriage-2d335f305278348540db41b593a9a2a9

    "Each year, 1,000 Pakistani girls forcibly converted to Islam"

    https://herald.dawn.com/news/1153061/state-of-fear

    https://www.firstpost.com/world/mob-sets-fire-to-hindu-community-centre-in-pak-over-blasphemy-1436793.html

    https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/world/story/hindu-teacher-attacked-temple-vandalised-pakistan-sindh-1599432-2019-09-15

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/hindu-temple-in-pakistan-vandalised-set-on-fire/story-06WMhxga1WvRXA4shTjtlI.html

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/15/pakistani-hindus-lose-daughters-forced-muslim-marriages/97013614/

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2075311/1-ppp-lawmakers-turn-bill-forced-conversions?amp=1

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34645370

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-aug-18-fg-schools18-story.html

    Replies: @barr

  199. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    I would not shout that everywhere in India, but in big cities, why not, India is not anywhere such place as your propaganda tells it to be, just check how many tourists did go there every year before corona.


    But the problem with modern Muslims is that they are mainly members of a degenerate community that has lost its way (they actually agree with that: they call the current state of the Ummah Ahd El Inhitat = the Age of decadence). They are ignorant, confused, insecure. As a consequence they are also often aggressive and hypocritical.

    If they fix their ways according to the best practices of their creed, then the whole World will be a better place Inch’a Allah.
     

    Bashibuzuk Islam has a problematic core, their beginnings and early history, are quite problematic in the eyes of the civilized people or other religions, therefore its much harder to build on such foundations anything beneficial for the mankind, of course its possible, but still at what cost? You cant have much integrity as a religious person if you try to explain every act of Muhammeds violence in mystical terms. Or so it seems to me, you clearly are much more knowledgeable about Islam, so maybe you know how some learned sufis deal with contradictions.

    Oh by the way Muslims, I would have no problems if one of my children or siblings would convert to Hinduism, (apostolic) Christianity, Taoism or Sikhism, as long as they are happy, but I would have quite a problem if some one of my relatives would convert to Islam, why is that? In your heart you know the answer...

    You really are such petty liars, you very well know that apostasy is a death sentence in Islam and Pakistan. Is it in India? Hell no! Hey you can extrapolate from that fact alone how Muslims have behaved towards other religions. Theres no better sign of cult, than threatening with violence those who want to leave the cult.

    Replies: @Barr, @Bashibuzuk

    maybe you know how some learned sufis deal with contradictions.

    There are many ways to circumnavigate the Islamic contradictions without becoming an outright hypocrite. These adaptative strategies depend on the different approaches pioneered by different tariqas. Basically, Islam is very much relying on Fiqh, the jurisprudence interpretation by the learned scholars (ie Fuqaha). This is due to Islam being a social and political as much as a religious system.

    Although not as extreme as the interpretation of the Talmud in Judaism, the interpretation of Shariah, which is always based on the tradition of exegesis (Tafsir), is quite complex. A typically Semitic hair-splitting, if you ask me.

    The Sufi usually take into account the spiritual and psychological factors. This allows for a more adaptative strategies, while still staying quite rigorous on the basic aspects of their faith. Of course a lot of people in the West think that Sufis are some peaceniks, but they’re not. Sufi orders have played an important role in Islamic fight against the West and an even greater role in Islamisation of Centrsl and South Eastern Asia.

    Anyway, Islam is very interesting and complex, it’s a pity most Muslims are boring and primitive.

    🙂

  200. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Who cares about what you think to your son's epiphany? People leave and embrace religion for many reasons -spiritual, financial, career ,and even for sex ( re- Hema Malini ) . But Hinduism doesn't attract any new convert because its a system of financial political and social control maintained by tribal family and caste concept .

    Hello liar if apostasy were death in historical Islam - how come Maimonades could live as Jews after converting from Judaism to Islam and then back to Judaism or BJP muslims leaders like Bhakt and Naqvi or the wife of George Fernandez or Md Chagla despite official and in practical being an apostate ?

    How could the Muslims officials of Bengal 's muslim royal family leave islam follow Chaityna Dev openly ?

    Also- ' On the other hand ,so many muslims converted to Hinduism that Shah Jahan established a department with it and forbade any proselytizing by Hindus. Under Jehangir 23 Muslims converted to Hinduism .Under Shah Jehan ,Muslim in Kashmir married Hindu boys and converted to Hinduism
    in 15 th century Brahmin established system to reconvert muslim back to Hindusim " - p 546 The Hindus An Alternative Story by Wendy Doniger


    During the time of the early years of Islam, people left Islam and embraced other religion .



    But if any of the apostate betrayed the state secrets jeopardizing the safety of the community ,apostasy was met with death .Even today treason carries death sentences in many countries .

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @AltanBakshi

    Maimonades could live as Jews after converting from Judaism to Islam and then back to Judaism

    Citation please?

    I was not aware of Mosshe Ben Maimon ever claiming being Muslim. Although it is true that the Al Muwaheedun (Almohade) dynasty having indeed imposed a mass conversion to Maghrebi Jewish and Christian communities. They successfully converted the majority of Christians, but lamentably failed with the Jews.

    🙂

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    Yes, wheres the citation?

  201. @KA
    @Bashibuzuk

    Koran, Hadith,Sunna, Shariah have guided the way Muslims should live anywhere . Fiqh is the interpretative aspect that has changed within the golden years of Islam depending on the context .

    Muslims lived as it has been mentioned under Hindus ,under Buddhist and obviously under Christian over many centuries without facing the dilemma of religious transgression.

    Islamic law does not say to leave unless life and faith are at stake . Chinese never threatened .Most of the times Hindu rulers ( unless we in crude Kingdom of Vijyanagar in its earlier days of existence .) did not because of fear of retribution by other powerful muslim kings. Obviously Kashmir Hindu king had that objective in mind -to expel ,to convert into 4th underclass or to turn Islam to a shadow of Islam just as it was done to Buddhism over many centuries . Today RSS-BJP tries to refer the ideas of Sharaih the way they see it fit and useful to expel or convert Muslim to 4th or 5th class of the society.

    By the way Dar ul Harb is much safer space and concept fro non Mulsim than the concept of Aryabhatta ever was . Ask Patanjali. Outside Aryabhtta area came Buddhsim from .Those areas were depicted by Hindu scholars as demon and animal like human (Asura ) infested .


    Nepal is a case study that shows how Hinduism has obliterated popular Buddhism by physical forces . Indian Hindu fugitives came to rule Nepal and imposes foreign Hinduism on them .
    Today Nepal is 90% Hindu and it will be impossible to take for them not to be partisan ti Hindu narrative . But now and then it still shows up and exposes the difficult and ultimately fatal journey of
    Buddhism under the yoke of Hinduism .

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Koran, Hadith,Sunna, Shariah have guided the way Muslims should live anywhere. Fiqh is the interpretative aspect that has changed within the golden years of Islam depending on the context.

    What happened to Buddhism in Afghanistan? Let me guess, they all willingly converted after taking in the glories of submission to Allah? And later their descendants went on to hate Buddhism with a passion due to coming closer with Allah and his divine word after all these generations?

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @Barr
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    May be you have sources .

    Until then :
    "What Donner turns out to mean is simply the well-known fact that the Muslims did not engage in systematic destruction of towns, churches, and other religious buildings, and that they were not out to impose their religion by force.” https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/among-the-believers .
    by Patricia Crone is a professor of Islamic history at the Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton.


    2 "What strategies did the Muslim conquerors use to establish their authority in Afghanistan and maintain an economically viable and politically sus- tainable engagement? These questions guide this chapter’s investigations, which serve to test the conversion models proposed by Nehemiah Levtzion, Richard Bul- liet, and Richard M. Eaton for neighboring parts of the Islamic world.2
    These three scholars have all emphasized that large-scale patterns of conver- sion cannot be explained by popular, unsubstantiated statements alluding to an immediate and violent conversion by the sword. Nor can softer methods, such as conversion through political or economic patronage (e.g., for tax reasons), pro- vide the full answer. Rather, under the umbrella of Muslim rule, the coexistence of multiple religions in the early Islamic period initiated a centuries-long process of acculturation and adaptation of rituals and belief systems" https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/10.1525/j.ctt1kc6k3q.7.pdf?ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_solr_cloud%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3Ae18ba1bb55ae2448a8c14f63e0e8535d

    May be Afghanistan evolved and did not go back as India had few times repeatedly .
    Here is the triumph of Shivaism that lasted few hundred years only to fold ,compromise ,and lose -


    "Shaivism replaced supreme deity and became one .It was no longer one of many beliefs and practices that carried and showed the journey to one supreme being . Straddling the era between 500 CE to 1300 CE it appropriated the role ,position and the status which otherwise belonged to the the supreme being as conceptualized in the Vedas .

    “There fore a hundred times the merit is accrued giving a clay vessel to Shiva than would be accrued from giving a gold vessel to one who has mastered the Veda

    Fire oblations, the Vedas, sacrifice abundant gifts to the teacher : All of these even by the crores, are not equivalent from worshipping Shivalinga” - Sibhadharma ,earliest surviving example of Shaiva literature .Other passages reject authority of Vedas entirely .Its literature even label those learned in Vedas as Nastika equal to Jain and Buddhists .In other instances it advocated complete abandonment of the Veda .Shiva sects also chanted Vedic mantras from 4 different Vedas to ostensibly to capture the legitimacy the Vedas could confer . The age can be called age of Shiva that rejected the Brahminism or what we would call Hinduism later offering complete package of achieving liberation "https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/j.ctt1pq345d.6 Religion changes even from within and choosing one over the other .

    If violence could have achieved conversion, Kashmir would have been Hindus by now and Iraq would have been featuring Bill Graham Jr all over the desert after 2003 .

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

  202. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @KA


    Koran, Hadith,Sunna, Shariah have guided the way Muslims should live anywhere. Fiqh is the interpretative aspect that has changed within the golden years of Islam depending on the context.

     

    What happened to Buddhism in Afghanistan? Let me guess, they all willingly converted after taking in the glories of submission to Allah? And later their descendants went on to hate Buddhism with a passion due to coming closer with Allah and his divine word after all these generations?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg

    Replies: @Barr

    May be you have sources .

    Until then :
    “What Donner turns out to mean is simply the well-known fact that the Muslims did not engage in systematic destruction of towns, churches, and other religious buildings, and that they were not out to impose their religion by force.” https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/among-the-believers .
    by Patricia Crone is a professor of Islamic history at the Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton.

    2 “What strategies did the Muslim conquerors use to establish their authority in Afghanistan and maintain an economically viable and politically sus- tainable engagement? These questions guide this chapter’s investigations, which serve to test the conversion models proposed by Nehemiah Levtzion, Richard Bul- liet, and Richard M. Eaton for neighboring parts of the Islamic world.2
    These three scholars have all emphasized that large-scale patterns of conver- sion cannot be explained by popular, unsubstantiated statements alluding to an immediate and violent conversion by the sword. Nor can softer methods, such as conversion through political or economic patronage (e.g., for tax reasons), pro- vide the full answer. Rather, under the umbrella of Muslim rule, the coexistence of multiple religions in the early Islamic period initiated a centuries-long process of acculturation and adaptation of rituals and belief systems” https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/10.1525/j.ctt1kc6k3q.7.pdf?ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_solr_cloud%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3Ae18ba1bb55ae2448a8c14f63e0e8535d

    May be Afghanistan evolved and did not go back as India had few times repeatedly .
    Here is the triumph of Shivaism that lasted few hundred years only to fold ,compromise ,and lose –

    “Shaivism replaced supreme deity and became one .It was no longer one of many beliefs and practices that carried and showed the journey to one supreme being . Straddling the era between 500 CE to 1300 CE it appropriated the role ,position and the status which otherwise belonged to the the supreme being as conceptualized in the Vedas .

    “There fore a hundred times the merit is accrued giving a clay vessel to Shiva than would be accrued from giving a gold vessel to one who has mastered the Veda

    Fire oblations, the Vedas, sacrifice abundant gifts to the teacher : All of these even by the crores, are not equivalent from worshipping Shivalinga” – Sibhadharma ,earliest surviving example of Shaiva literature .Other passages reject authority of Vedas entirely .Its literature even label those learned in Vedas as Nastika equal to Jain and Buddhists .In other instances it advocated complete abandonment of the Veda .Shiva sects also chanted Vedic mantras from 4 different Vedas to ostensibly to capture the legitimacy the Vedas could confer . The age can be called age of Shiva that rejected the Brahminism or what we would call Hinduism later offering complete package of achieving liberation “https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/j.ctt1pq345d.6 Religion changes even from within and choosing one over the other .

    If violence could have achieved conversion, Kashmir would have been Hindus by now and Iraq would have been featuring Bill Graham Jr all over the desert after 2003 .

    • Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Barr

    History is quite an opaque topic, we can never be sure of what happened, especially when it happened so long ago. But one thing is for sure, violent conversion or coercion to convert through a climate of fear is well within the matrix of Islamic behaviours, as we see to this day in Muslim countries.

    Your general thesis of "Muslims dindu nuffin" is quite ludicrous, even Christianity commited some horrific crimes yet we are meant to think that followers of the much more violent Quran spread their faith relatively peacefully?

    You seem to be applying double standards here, when Buddhists are forced to convert in Afghanistan due to discrimination and them having better prospects in cultural life if they become Muslims, that is completely fine and peaceful by you, but should Muslims face the slightest bit of negativity today you cry foul!

    You people most definitely seem to inherited the quality of Chutzpah from your faith's Semitic forerunners. Come to think of it, there are many similarities between Judaism and Islam, both strongly recommend the barbaric act of male genital mutilation (which has no medical benefits at all) and both avoid pork and slaughter their meat in a "ritual" manner. Both also have drawn very strong lines about how believers and non-believers should be treated. For Jews it is the goyim, for Muslims it is the infidel.

    You two were made for eachother!

    https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_18/1986166/170503-israel-palestine-conflict-cr-0454_02_2e890631b3d9ddde5f35e1f19344bebb.nbcnews-fp-1200-630.jpg

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @barr, @AaronB

  203. https://www.sikhnet.com/news/islamic-india-biggest-holocaust-world-history

    ਮਾਤਾ ਕਾਲੀ ਦਾ ਕਾਲਾ ਬਾਣਾ ਸਿੰਘਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ ।
    The dark Bana [uniform] of Mata Kaali [Devi] was given to the Singhs.

    ‘ਸਿੰਘ’ ਮਾਤਾ ਦਾ ਬਾਹਨ, ਸੋ ਪੰਥ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ ਠਹਿਰਾਇਆ । ੪੨੯ ।
    The Lion [Singh] is the vehicle of the Mata [because Chandi rides a lion], due to this the Panth received the name of Singh.

    ਆਸ਼ਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ ਜੋ ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਾਸ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ।
    It is the hope of the Master [Guru Gobind Singh Ji] to destroy the Turks.

    ਕਾਰਨ ਇਹ ਸੀ ਪੰਥ ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ ਧਰਨ ਦਾ ।
    For this reason the [Khalsa] Panth was manifested in this world.

    ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਅਤੇ ਸਿੰਘ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ । ਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਵਾਕ ਪਛਾਣੇ ਕੋਈ । ੪੩੦।
    The Guru’s Sikh and Singh is one who recognizes the order of the Guru.

    ਅਗੇ ਹੋਰ ਸੁਣੋ ਛੰਦ, ਜੋ ਆਪ ਰਸਨੀ ਉਚਾਰਾ । ਕਾਰਨ ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਨਾਸੈ, ਪੰਥ ਸਵਾਰਾ ।
    Listen to the following passage [which is not provided in this post], which the Guru has spoken with his tounge. The Panth will become beautiful after destroying the Turks.

    ਤਾਂ ਸੀਸ ਕੇਸ ਰਖ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ ਕਰਨੇ । ਕਟਿ ਸ਼ਾਸ਼ਤ੍ਰ ਬੰਧਵਾਇ ਸਿੰਘ ਨਾਮ ਧਰਨੇ ।
    [And the Guru remarked], Adorning [unshorn] hair on your head, you shall be warriors, fastening weapons to your waist, and adopting Singh [Tiger] in your name.

    ਮਾਤਾ ਕਾਲੀ ਦਾ ਬਾਣਾ ਨੀਲਾ ਪਹਿਰਾਵਣਾ ।
    [You shall] wear the blue dress of Mata Kali [The Dark Goddess]

    ਕਰਨਾ ਜੁਧ ਨਾਲਿ ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਮਾਰਿ ਹਟਾਵਣਾ ।293।
    Conducting war with the Turks you will kill and stop [their tyranny].

    Enough.

  204. @AltanBakshi
    @barr

    Again lies. Last Buddhist imperial power, the Palas of Bengal and Bihar, fell only in the late 12th century. Though its true that Adi Shankaras Advaintins were ascendant and winning adherents among the Buddhists of Southern and Western India, still it was a peaceful and gentlemanly process, and not anyway similar to Mahmud Ghaznis and Bakhtiyar Khiljis genocidal campaigns. Or do Muslim historians lie when they say that Mahmud e Ghazni promised to wage Jihad against infidels every year of his life? That demon did 19 Jihads against Buddhists and Hindus, desecrated countless temples and sanctuaries, and probably slaughtered your ancestors, made them slaves and forced them to convert. Do our Tibetan historians and travellers lie when they describe the horrors that they witnessed in the early 13th century amidst the ruins of our great Monastic universities? Countless Buddhist masters and their students escaped to mountaints to Tibet, so that our Dharma would not perish, the Muslims specifically targeted us, over the Hindus, to them we are, and have always been idol worshippers, isnt in Persian, maybe even in Urdu, Bud or Bhut a idol, in a most negative Islamic sense?


    This is what a Persian Muslim historian Minhaj-i-Siraj wrote about the destruction of our most important Monastery, the Sacred Nalanda:


    Muhammad-i-Bakht-yar, by the force of his intrepidity, threw himself into the postern of the gateway of the place, and they captured the fortress, and acquired great booty. The greater number of the inhabitants of that place were Brahmans, and the whole of those Brahmans had their heads shaven; and they were all slain. There were a great number of books there; and, when all these books came under the observation of the Musalmans, they summoned a number of Hindus that they might give them information respecting the import of those books; but the whole of the Hindus had been killed. On becoming acquainted [with the contents of those books], it was found that the whole of that fortress and city was a college, and in the Hindu tongue, they call a college [مدرسه] Bihar.
     
    If you are Pakistani, you very well know that all people of India were once called by the name of Hindu, as the land was called Hindustan, which originated from the Indus rivers Persian name, Hapta Hindu. Those shaved Brahmins were Buddhist monks, and Bihar comes from Sanskrit Vihara, meaning a Monastery and specifically a Buddhist monastery.

    You cant even fathom how important Nalanda is to us, unlike your magical stone, it was a place of learning and knowledge, there were not just faculties for religious studies, but also for philology, literature, medicine, logic and astronomy.

    According to Tibetan sources, five great Mahaviharas (universities) stood out: Vikramashila, the premier university of the era; Nalanda, past its prime but still illustrious; Somapura Mahavihara; Odantapurā; and Jaggadala. The mahaviharas formed a network; "all of them were under state supervision" and there existed "a system of co-ordination among them ... it seems from the evidence that the different seats of Buddhist learning that functioned in eastern India under the Pāla were regarded together as forming a network, an interlinked group of institutions," and it was common for great scholars to move easily from position to position among them.
     
    Actually Mahavihara just means Great Monastery or Monastic abode in Sanskrit.
    Those five Monastery-Universities all stopped working after Muslim invasion, just a coincidence?

    Replies: @barr, @barr, @Bashibuzuk, @Grahamsno(G64)

    Do our Tibetan historians and travellers lie when they describe the horrors that they witnessed in the early 13th century amidst the ruins of our great Monastic universities?

    Thank you dear Tibetan sincerely for your support.

    • Troll: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Sorry I thought you were ironic or something. Im not Tibetan, but Tibetans have always been a part of my life, as friends and more importantly as teachers. Im myself a man of mixed European and Asian heritage.

  205. @KA
    @Bashibuzuk

    They do now and they have been . Then Indian educated by RSS BJP charter calls it terrorism and fascism.

    "If a Muslim accepts being ruled by Pagan or Atheist rulers, then he is not one of the faithful.” - thats another distortion . As long as religious practices are not hindered or efforts made to eradicate, muslims will, gladly live as citizen and have done so.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @catchastar

    You are fighting a losing battle. The Muslims of India do not need your representation. The ‘disenfranchised’ Bangla muslims you support are illegally in India and are not eligible for citizenship and anyway are racially ‘inferior’ to you Pakistanis since you genocided*** them in 1971 on that very basis, the Shias are doing just fine…they do not need a Paki-sponsored support group who mortally hate them anyway. The Ahmadiyas and other sects who are considered non-Muslim are not your problem either since they are put to death for apostasy in your perfect Islamic state. So who exactly are you fighting for except grinding your own Pakistani axe for imagined hurts or following orders from the Chinese leadership?

    Eventually there WILL be a common civil code in India and all Muslims will have to follow it. Whoever does not like it can leave for where-ever will have them. Not many places will. Certainly, not your Saudi masters or the Chinese. I doubt pakistan will give safe passage to their brethren either.

    ***Btw, how come the ummah doesn’t condemn pakistan for what they did to the Bangladeshis? How come noone ever talks of it here or anywhere? How can the Bangladeshis bear to be part of an ummah that considers them not only racially inferior but was willing to murder them wholesale on that basis? Literal dehumanization by their own co-religionists.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @catchastar

    Thats true, they fucking genocided their own fellow Muslims, millions of them, and not long time ago, in the 70s! Pakistani hypocrisy has no limits, I must say that I thought that Israelis are big hypocrites, but better to be Muslim in Israel than Shia or Hindu in Pakistan.

    Really you Pakistanis killed millions of your brothers in faith and still you dare to claim that India is somehow the evil side. Of course I believe that there are also good Pakistanis, but these two guys here, they have lost their humanity, they are not men anymore but evil spirits inhabiting human bodies, how any man can live so fully in deceit and subterfuge? You are rabid and lying beasts, and you should be treated as beasts, dont wonder why I dont want any beasts near me.

    There are so many arguments against you that I just cant fathom the vastness of the cognitive dissonance among you, like this one, there are countless famous Muslim actors in India, and you know it. Hows that possible if India is anywhere near as bad as you claim?

    Replies: @catchastar

    , @KA
    @catchastar

    Yes, mulsim should follow the uniform civil code. The porblem is the very malevolent nature of the Hinduvatta , can Muslim trust Advani Yogi Amit Shah Modi or Sadvi ,or Aranab - gallery of rogue intelelctual thugs,religious fanatics ,racist communal bastards ? Can they trust the supreme court that juts absolved everybody acccused in Babri demolition, nad found none responisble, can they trust the judiciary that acquitted the Hindu fanatucs involved in Gujrat riot , can the world trust a governement that mainatianed silence on the true origin of the fire and the source of the arson on the Godhra train? it cant .
    Now India talks of rule of law and democracy and seculairsm - the buzzword they have nurtured and memorized . Even Taliban dressed in suits and ties speaking English could ,in that case, become democratic,secular,and beliver in the rule of law .

    Code of law is for human. Some aspect is personal,some is related to society,nation,and even possibly outside the interests of the nation. Its a decision that cant be imposed or changed by some fanatic religious elements without inout . Why should muslim belive some thugs who have killed and rioted continuously against muslim since 1987 ,destryoed many mosques ( 15 in 5 days in 2020 in Delhi ) exonertaed Hindu culprits ,overnight removed special status of Kashmir ,corrupted the judiciary ,packed the courts with religious- political nominnes ,and emboldened the communal police forces ?

    Actually the idea is to hurt muslim,make them feel powerless,force them into abject subjugatio( the original goal of RSS Savarkar and Hindu Mashaba in 1930) n in the name of woman's empowerment ( another buzzword the feckless hideous elite has learned from the west without any intention of honoring ) and make the muslim feel guilty .Idea is not to empower woman. Dowry death gang rape ,parading woman naked sexual explotation of female labor , - are few among many fates that visit Indian women everyday .

    Will it - disempowerment of mulsim - work? May be . But one thing we could be sure,the day it stops working, we will call muslim repsonse as terrorism .

    1857 gave rise to strident anti muslim Hundu nationalism . 911 has given rise to similar strudnet nati mulsim Hinfuvatta .

    lets see how this pans out . Differnce is thus time ideologically Hindu nationalsim has sought relationship with Zionism and with figure like Bannon .

    Lets see how this ends .

    , @barr
    @catchastar

    Common Code .

    Indian common code doesnt apply where its application will make it most relevnat apporpirtae and just . Ito doesn't .
    The 50% reservation quota for Hindu underclass ( though the benificiaries have been mostly the middle class Hindus and nit the untichabke or teh forest dwellers ) doesnt apply to muslim or Christian . It is claimed that mulsim nad christian dont have casteism . So it wont apply.
    But issue is not that. Why mulsim and Chrostian should pay for whats wrong with Hinudism ? Why doesnt the goverment fix the system making it applicbale to economcally disdvantaged ?
    If Hindus want to make amends, they should devise other ways to do it - like reserving the places for mulsim Hindus Chrstian Sikhs and then subdiviidng the places slated for Hindus between upper caste and lower caste .

    Another glaring intentional in your -face -type malevolent act is to remove special provisions ( agreed by various parties in 50s) of Jammu Kashmir and allow the special provisions for north east remain.

    By the way if permannet majority could make laws for permannet minoroties, then Shariahshoukf be excused of wrong applocation if and when applied to the minority .


    Shariah doesnt appplly to minority precisely for one of these reasons.

    If common code violates some principle of minortites and the prinicple in consideration doesnt matter to the majority, then the application of the code has to be endorsed and voted by the minority . That pricniple is inherent part of the democrcay .

  206. @Barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Who cares about what you think to your son's epiphany? People leave and embrace religion for many reasons -spiritual, financial, career ,and even for sex ( re- Hema Malini ) . But Hinduism doesn't attract any new convert because its a system of financial political and social control maintained by tribal family and caste concept .

    Hello liar if apostasy were death in historical Islam - how come Maimonades could live as Jews after converting from Judaism to Islam and then back to Judaism or BJP muslims leaders like Bhakt and Naqvi or the wife of George Fernandez or Md Chagla despite official and in practical being an apostate ?

    How could the Muslims officials of Bengal 's muslim royal family leave islam follow Chaityna Dev openly ?

    Also- ' On the other hand ,so many muslims converted to Hinduism that Shah Jahan established a department with it and forbade any proselytizing by Hindus. Under Jehangir 23 Muslims converted to Hinduism .Under Shah Jehan ,Muslim in Kashmir married Hindu boys and converted to Hinduism
    in 15 th century Brahmin established system to reconvert muslim back to Hindusim " - p 546 The Hindus An Alternative Story by Wendy Doniger


    During the time of the early years of Islam, people left Islam and embraced other religion .



    But if any of the apostate betrayed the state secrets jeopardizing the safety of the community ,apostasy was met with death .Even today treason carries death sentences in many countries .

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @AltanBakshi

    Little bit of googling and see what I could find, and this is only a small sliver of crimes and transgressions committed in your country. Through many years I have read again, and again about the crimes of your people, and I rarely read Indian newspapers. Not just your Hindus, but even your Christians and Muslim minorities like Shias and Ahmadiyyas live in fear. Even though your Quaid-i-Azam was Shia. I know, you all believe that he was Sunni, and your schools brainwash you to believe so. If Jinnah would see now the state of Pakistan, and how the Shias are treated there, he would be in deep pain and thoroughly disappointed, still its good for us others that your country exists, its like a quarantine zone or reservation for dangerous and violent retards.

    [MORE]

    http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/1860/actXLVof1860.html#f108

    Pakistani Penal Code 295-C.
    Use of derogatory remarks, etc., in respect of the Holy Prophet:
    Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.

    “By any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or undirectly,”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9161739/amp/Christian-girl-12-kidnapped-raped-chained-man-45-Pakistan-rescued.html

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/pakistan-s-forced-conversions-brings-shame-on-imran-khan/amp

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1600385

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/1/6/wadi-e-hussain-a-graveyard-for-pakistani-shia

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2014/5/17/living-in-fear-under-pakistans-blasphemy-law

    https://www.economist.com/asia/2014/11/27/bad-mouthing

    http://www.thepersecution.org/archive/9.html

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistani-christians-islam-lynching-trial-muslims-convert-youhanabad-lahore-church-bombings-a7659721.html

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-25874580

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-12617562

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/18/pakistan-textbooks-religious-extremism

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2014/8/18/forced-conversions-torment-pakistans-hindus

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/51401-1000-girls-forcibly-converted-to-islam-in-pakistan-every-year

    https://apnews.com/article/karachi-pakistan-coronavirus-pandemic-christianity-marriage-2d335f305278348540db41b593a9a2a9

    “Each year, 1,000 Pakistani girls forcibly converted to Islam”

    https://herald.dawn.com/news/1153061/state-of-fear

    https://www.firstpost.com/world/mob-sets-fire-to-hindu-community-centre-in-pak-over-blasphemy-1436793.html

    https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/world/story/hindu-teacher-attacked-temple-vandalised-pakistan-sindh-1599432-2019-09-15

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/hindu-temple-in-pakistan-vandalised-set-on-fire/story-06WMhxga1WvRXA4shTjtlI.html

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/15/pakistani-hindus-lose-daughters-forced-muslim-marriages/97013614/

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2075311/1-ppp-lawmakers-turn-bill-forced-conversions?amp=1

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34645370

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-aug-18-fg-schools18-story.html

    • Replies: @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Sure Pakistan has done, Saudi Arab . has committed mass murders. It diesnt define Islam . Just as Hinduvatta of RSS variety doesnt define Hinduism . But there is more problems in Hinduism because Hinduvatta has arisen many times in Indian subcontinent obliterating culture and religion of other .


    Long ago I told one once devout Catholic elderly female whether she would stop believing in democracy just because it was abused by Geroge Bush jr or Obama . I woukd have added Trump if the conversation took place today. Because she left the faith because of sex abuse.
    She thought ,smiled ,and thanked me for directing her thinking in a differnt perspective .

    Isolated events in Pakistan of the types yoy mention will shock people anywhere irrespective of religion language geography .
    Just like the Sati in 1987 would have, or the efforts of Hindu governmnet of UP to suppress the news of gang rapes and then blame it on other or even incarecrate journalist for covering ,or keeping religious attendees in jail for months,or putting doctor in jail for discussing medicakly relevant issues just because he was muslim ,or dragging muslim from home and killing because of false suspicion of cow killing . The list goes on and on.



    Again stay on the issue- What were the privilges that muslim enjoyed under Congress rule ?,

    Replies: @catchastar

  207. @catchastar
    @KA

    You are fighting a losing battle. The Muslims of India do not need your representation. The 'disenfranchised' Bangla muslims you support are illegally in India and are not eligible for citizenship and anyway are racially 'inferior' to you Pakistanis since you genocided*** them in 1971 on that very basis, the Shias are doing just fine...they do not need a Paki-sponsored support group who mortally hate them anyway. The Ahmadiyas and other sects who are considered non-Muslim are not your problem either since they are put to death for apostasy in your perfect Islamic state. So who exactly are you fighting for except grinding your own Pakistani axe for imagined hurts or following orders from the Chinese leadership?

    Eventually there WILL be a common civil code in India and all Muslims will have to follow it. Whoever does not like it can leave for where-ever will have them. Not many places will. Certainly, not your Saudi masters or the Chinese. I doubt pakistan will give safe passage to their brethren either.

    ***Btw, how come the ummah doesn't condemn pakistan for what they did to the Bangladeshis? How come noone ever talks of it here or anywhere? How can the Bangladeshis bear to be part of an ummah that considers them not only racially inferior but was willing to murder them wholesale on that basis? Literal dehumanization by their own co-religionists.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @KA, @barr

    Thats true, they fucking genocided their own fellow Muslims, millions of them, and not long time ago, in the 70s! Pakistani hypocrisy has no limits, I must say that I thought that Israelis are big hypocrites, but better to be Muslim in Israel than Shia or Hindu in Pakistan.

    Really you Pakistanis killed millions of your brothers in faith and still you dare to claim that India is somehow the evil side. Of course I believe that there are also good Pakistanis, but these two guys here, they have lost their humanity, they are not men anymore but evil spirits inhabiting human bodies, how any man can live so fully in deceit and subterfuge? You are rabid and lying beasts, and you should be treated as beasts, dont wonder why I dont want any beasts near me.

    There are so many arguments against you that I just cant fathom the vastness of the cognitive dissonance among you, like this one, there are countless famous Muslim actors in India, and you know it. Hows that possible if India is anywhere near as bad as you claim?

    • Replies: @catchastar
    @AltanBakshi

    Millions of Bangla Hindus were raped, tortured and murdered as well.

  208. @Bashibuzuk
    @Barr


    Maimonades could live as Jews after converting from Judaism to Islam and then back to Judaism
     
    Citation please?

    I was not aware of Mosshe Ben Maimon ever claiming being Muslim. Although it is true that the Al Muwaheedun (Almohade) dynasty having indeed imposed a mass conversion to Maghrebi Jewish and Christian communities. They successfully converted the majority of Christians, but lamentably failed with the Jews.

    🙂

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Yes, wheres the citation?

  209. Why Islamic world is so poor and violent? Because its the will of Allah! Why America bombs you? Because its the will of Allah! Why India is bigger and stronger and beat you in multiple wars? Because its the will of the Allah! Why Christians, Hindus, Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists fear you and try to avoid you? Because its the will of Allah! Allah is truly Great! Praise Allah! Why you are so confused and agitated? We know the answer, say it with me! Because its the will of the mighty Allah, Lord of Heaven and Earth!

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AltanB

    Its definitely Allahs will that Im going to cook some white tailed deer now! Thank you Allah for venison and for separating Pakistan from India! Mashallah!

  210. @AltanBakshi
    @catchastar

    Thats true, they fucking genocided their own fellow Muslims, millions of them, and not long time ago, in the 70s! Pakistani hypocrisy has no limits, I must say that I thought that Israelis are big hypocrites, but better to be Muslim in Israel than Shia or Hindu in Pakistan.

    Really you Pakistanis killed millions of your brothers in faith and still you dare to claim that India is somehow the evil side. Of course I believe that there are also good Pakistanis, but these two guys here, they have lost their humanity, they are not men anymore but evil spirits inhabiting human bodies, how any man can live so fully in deceit and subterfuge? You are rabid and lying beasts, and you should be treated as beasts, dont wonder why I dont want any beasts near me.

    There are so many arguments against you that I just cant fathom the vastness of the cognitive dissonance among you, like this one, there are countless famous Muslim actors in India, and you know it. Hows that possible if India is anywhere near as bad as you claim?

    Replies: @catchastar

    Millions of Bangla Hindus were raped, tortured and murdered as well.

  211. @AltanB
    Why Islamic world is so poor and violent? Because its the will of Allah! Why America bombs you? Because its the will of Allah! Why India is bigger and stronger and beat you in multiple wars? Because its the will of the Allah! Why Christians, Hindus, Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists fear you and try to avoid you? Because its the will of Allah! Allah is truly Great! Praise Allah! Why you are so confused and agitated? We know the answer, say it with me! Because its the will of the mighty Allah, Lord of Heaven and Earth!

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Its definitely Allahs will that Im going to cook some white tailed deer now! Thank you Allah for venison and for separating Pakistan from India! Mashallah!

  212. @Barr
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    May be you have sources .

    Until then :
    "What Donner turns out to mean is simply the well-known fact that the Muslims did not engage in systematic destruction of towns, churches, and other religious buildings, and that they were not out to impose their religion by force.” https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/among-the-believers .
    by Patricia Crone is a professor of Islamic history at the Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton.


    2 "What strategies did the Muslim conquerors use to establish their authority in Afghanistan and maintain an economically viable and politically sus- tainable engagement? These questions guide this chapter’s investigations, which serve to test the conversion models proposed by Nehemiah Levtzion, Richard Bul- liet, and Richard M. Eaton for neighboring parts of the Islamic world.2
    These three scholars have all emphasized that large-scale patterns of conver- sion cannot be explained by popular, unsubstantiated statements alluding to an immediate and violent conversion by the sword. Nor can softer methods, such as conversion through political or economic patronage (e.g., for tax reasons), pro- vide the full answer. Rather, under the umbrella of Muslim rule, the coexistence of multiple religions in the early Islamic period initiated a centuries-long process of acculturation and adaptation of rituals and belief systems" https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/10.1525/j.ctt1kc6k3q.7.pdf?ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_solr_cloud%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3Ae18ba1bb55ae2448a8c14f63e0e8535d

    May be Afghanistan evolved and did not go back as India had few times repeatedly .
    Here is the triumph of Shivaism that lasted few hundred years only to fold ,compromise ,and lose -


    "Shaivism replaced supreme deity and became one .It was no longer one of many beliefs and practices that carried and showed the journey to one supreme being . Straddling the era between 500 CE to 1300 CE it appropriated the role ,position and the status which otherwise belonged to the the supreme being as conceptualized in the Vedas .

    “There fore a hundred times the merit is accrued giving a clay vessel to Shiva than would be accrued from giving a gold vessel to one who has mastered the Veda

    Fire oblations, the Vedas, sacrifice abundant gifts to the teacher : All of these even by the crores, are not equivalent from worshipping Shivalinga” - Sibhadharma ,earliest surviving example of Shaiva literature .Other passages reject authority of Vedas entirely .Its literature even label those learned in Vedas as Nastika equal to Jain and Buddhists .In other instances it advocated complete abandonment of the Veda .Shiva sects also chanted Vedic mantras from 4 different Vedas to ostensibly to capture the legitimacy the Vedas could confer . The age can be called age of Shiva that rejected the Brahminism or what we would call Hinduism later offering complete package of achieving liberation "https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/j.ctt1pq345d.6 Religion changes even from within and choosing one over the other .

    If violence could have achieved conversion, Kashmir would have been Hindus by now and Iraq would have been featuring Bill Graham Jr all over the desert after 2003 .

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    History is quite an opaque topic, we can never be sure of what happened, especially when it happened so long ago. But one thing is for sure, violent conversion or coercion to convert through a climate of fear is well within the matrix of Islamic behaviours, as we see to this day in Muslim countries.

    Your general thesis of “Muslims dindu nuffin” is quite ludicrous, even Christianity commited some horrific crimes yet we are meant to think that followers of the much more violent Quran spread their faith relatively peacefully?

    You seem to be applying double standards here, when Buddhists are forced to convert in Afghanistan due to discrimination and them having better prospects in cultural life if they become Muslims, that is completely fine and peaceful by you, but should Muslims face the slightest bit of negativity today you cry foul!

    You people most definitely seem to inherited the quality of Chutzpah from your faith’s Semitic forerunners. Come to think of it, there are many similarities between Judaism and Islam, both strongly recommend the barbaric act of male genital mutilation (which has no medical benefits at all) and both avoid pork and slaughter their meat in a “ritual” manner. Both also have drawn very strong lines about how believers and non-believers should be treated. For Jews it is the goyim, for Muslims it is the infidel.

    You two were made for eachother!

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell


    You two were made for eachother!
     
    Absolutely correct.

    We shouldn't get involved in their family feud. Let them sort it out among "Abraham's children ".

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/3f/0e/eb3f0ea125004dfbc51960aa4e0cd2ad.jpg

    https://pics.me.me/the-first-shiksas-are-for-practice-in-history-hagar-sarah-65537968.png

    The farther we stay from all this Semitic nonsense the better it will be.

    Replies: @AaronB

    , @barr
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    For too long your forefathers have taught you a lot of lies about other religions.
    Bring here your documents that show Islam spread due to sword in India or even in Arab or in China or Mongolia or Central Asia or Nigeria.
    " c act of male genital mutilation" better than drinking cow 's urine . Thats none of my business if you drink . Just dont force on other by parading it as treatment of Corona and other ailments.( and who knows it might have benefit but until then ,stick to science)
    By the way dont change goalpost .

    "Buddhists are forced to convert in Afghanistan due to discrimination and them having better prospects in cultural life if they become Muslims, that is completely fine and peaceful by you, but should Muslims face the slightest bit of negativity today you cry foul!"

    Do you know how to think .? If torture and deprivation and violence coould explain large scale conversion , Kashmiris would have agreed to become Hindus ,- any kimd of Hindu even the lowest of the lowest rung of the Hindusim some 20 yrs ago .

    Dont change goalpost. Where is the evidence that Muslims enjoyed privilges under Congress ? Thats what started the conversation.

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    , @AaronB
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    I much prefer commenter "Talha" in these matters.

    While disingenuous in other ways, he's refreshingly honest about this. He frankly says that wherever Islam predominates, it establishes itself as the alpha religion and creates a discriminatory and coercive environment towards non Muslims, in order to induce them to convert. He defends this as perfectly just and fair, as a result of the "right of conquest" or because they "succeeded" in converting most of the local population, which gives them the right to then lord it over others.

  213. Bashibuzuk says:
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Barr

    History is quite an opaque topic, we can never be sure of what happened, especially when it happened so long ago. But one thing is for sure, violent conversion or coercion to convert through a climate of fear is well within the matrix of Islamic behaviours, as we see to this day in Muslim countries.

    Your general thesis of "Muslims dindu nuffin" is quite ludicrous, even Christianity commited some horrific crimes yet we are meant to think that followers of the much more violent Quran spread their faith relatively peacefully?

    You seem to be applying double standards here, when Buddhists are forced to convert in Afghanistan due to discrimination and them having better prospects in cultural life if they become Muslims, that is completely fine and peaceful by you, but should Muslims face the slightest bit of negativity today you cry foul!

    You people most definitely seem to inherited the quality of Chutzpah from your faith's Semitic forerunners. Come to think of it, there are many similarities between Judaism and Islam, both strongly recommend the barbaric act of male genital mutilation (which has no medical benefits at all) and both avoid pork and slaughter their meat in a "ritual" manner. Both also have drawn very strong lines about how believers and non-believers should be treated. For Jews it is the goyim, for Muslims it is the infidel.

    You two were made for eachother!

    https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_18/1986166/170503-israel-palestine-conflict-cr-0454_02_2e890631b3d9ddde5f35e1f19344bebb.nbcnews-fp-1200-630.jpg

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @barr, @AaronB

    You two were made for eachother!

    Absolutely correct.

    We shouldn’t get involved in their family feud. Let them sort it out among “Abraham’s children “.

    The farther we stay from all this Semitic nonsense the better it will be.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    @Bashibuzuk

    Isn't that just another version of "us vs them" analogous in every way to the Jewish vs goyim or the Muslim vs infidel paradigm?

    Or the supposedly Buddhist (emphasis on supposedly) AltanBakshi describing Americans as a nation of mlecchas ruled by demons - utterly dehumanizing them?

    You, Altan, and that Sikh character, the representatives of "Dharmic faiths" here, are generally some of the most arrogant, contemptuous, aggressive, and angry people on this blog.

    If AltanBakshi represents Buddhism, then that is just another fine illustration of my thesis that religion has zero impact on character or morality...

    Which is actually quite fascinating and good fodder for my theorizing. Dharmic faiths are "officially" more gentle and peaceful than Semitic faiths (is that even true? Sikhs are warlike, the Bagavad Gita defends going to war against relatives, while the later Biblical Prophets talk of the lion lying down with the lamb and swords being beaten into ploughshares, and of course Jesus...), yet their practitioners are as violent, aggressive, and angry as any other.

    Buddhist Thaliand and Burma was as violent and warlike as any Christian country.

    My (developing) theory is that official ideology has precisely zero impact on a groups behavior or character and is not to be taken literally at all, and may have a completely different and unexpected function than as an actual guide to behavior.

    Instead of taking an official ideology at face value, one should understand its social function or role - it may be that any ideology will serve as social glue or badge of identity. Or, it may be that a group needs a lofty moral vision to pay lip service to as it indulges in aggression and violence.

    Apparently, AltanBakahi feels comfortable utterly dehumanizing Americans because he himself is Buddhist, and thus so much more morally superior.

    It may be that claims of moral superiority psychologically function as justification for aggression towards other groups.

    If so, claims of moral superiority - idealistic religions or idealistic ideologies - may be the opposite of what they appear - not aspirations towards justice and peace, but rather, should be classified among man's warlike tendencies.

    Has there ever been a simple, humble person, who laughs at himself and doesn't take himself seriously, who doesn't think he's morally superior and knows quite well that he has faults, is selfish, vain, petty, etc, and who is ok with his failings, who is especially aggressive towards his fellows? Yet we all know the self-righteous morally superior fellow and what he is capable of...

    That is why true Buddhism (the highest levels of Tibetan Buddhism) tells you not to try and become morally superior or perfect yourself, or to take yourself seriously...and all true religions end up with that at their highest levels...they well understand the dangers of moral self righteousness, of trying to perfect oneself...

    Hmm, these are interesting reflections I must sit on for a while...

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Jatt Aryaa

  214. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Barr

    History is quite an opaque topic, we can never be sure of what happened, especially when it happened so long ago. But one thing is for sure, violent conversion or coercion to convert through a climate of fear is well within the matrix of Islamic behaviours, as we see to this day in Muslim countries.

    Your general thesis of "Muslims dindu nuffin" is quite ludicrous, even Christianity commited some horrific crimes yet we are meant to think that followers of the much more violent Quran spread their faith relatively peacefully?

    You seem to be applying double standards here, when Buddhists are forced to convert in Afghanistan due to discrimination and them having better prospects in cultural life if they become Muslims, that is completely fine and peaceful by you, but should Muslims face the slightest bit of negativity today you cry foul!

    You people most definitely seem to inherited the quality of Chutzpah from your faith's Semitic forerunners. Come to think of it, there are many similarities between Judaism and Islam, both strongly recommend the barbaric act of male genital mutilation (which has no medical benefits at all) and both avoid pork and slaughter their meat in a "ritual" manner. Both also have drawn very strong lines about how believers and non-believers should be treated. For Jews it is the goyim, for Muslims it is the infidel.

    You two were made for eachother!

    https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_18/1986166/170503-israel-palestine-conflict-cr-0454_02_2e890631b3d9ddde5f35e1f19344bebb.nbcnews-fp-1200-630.jpg

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @barr, @AaronB

    For too long your forefathers have taught you a lot of lies about other religions.
    Bring here your documents that show Islam spread due to sword in India or even in Arab or in China or Mongolia or Central Asia or Nigeria.
    ” c act of male genital mutilation” better than drinking cow ‘s urine . Thats none of my business if you drink . Just dont force on other by parading it as treatment of Corona and other ailments.( and who knows it might have benefit but until then ,stick to science)
    By the way dont change goalpost .

    “Buddhists are forced to convert in Afghanistan due to discrimination and them having better prospects in cultural life if they become Muslims, that is completely fine and peaceful by you, but should Muslims face the slightest bit of negativity today you cry foul!”

    Do you know how to think .? If torture and deprivation and violence coould explain large scale conversion , Kashmiris would have agreed to become Hindus ,- any kimd of Hindu even the lowest of the lowest rung of the Hindusim some 20 yrs ago .

    Dont change goalpost. Where is the evidence that Muslims enjoyed privilges under Congress ? Thats what started the conversation.

    • Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @barr

    I am not a Hindu, I presume in your twisted world anyone who calls out your obvious Muslim supremacism is a Hindu/Zionist/whatever.

    The fact is Muslims are violent just like other groups, they are no saints who are just peacefully trying to spread the truth and in the process get persecuted by heretics. We see this around the world, they take advantage of their host societies, refuse to make even an iota of an effort to integrate and maintain their own culture in their new nations, all while having a disdain for the natives.

    Whenever some group gets tired of them, say the Buddhists in Myanmar, then suddenly they raise a cry so loud that it is heard around the world and rally the Ummah around their "cause"

    Just like some other religious/ethnic chauvinists, Muslim supremacists like yourself will keep asking for sources over and over again, to gaslight people and make them question their own intuition. Never mind that Muslims are massacring Christians in the likes of Nigeria as we speak, never mind that they even persecute heretical sects of their own religion, we are just supposed to ignore that and consider any such reports to be lies!

    For the moment, Europeans are far too meek to stand up, but when some less "liberal" groups in the Third World (like the Hindus in India or the Buddhists in Burma) fight back, then suddenly it is a crime against humanity.

    For the average Muslim supremacist, the fingernail of one of his co-religionists is worth more than all infidels combined.


    Dont change goalpost. Where is the evidence that Muslims enjoyed privilges under Congress ? Thats what started the conversation.

     

    OK, it seems like you have mistaken me for another commenter, but to address this point, are Muslims in India really persecuted? Why have their numbers (both as a percentage of the population and total population) only increased since 1947?

    You clearly seem brainwashed, and clearly the type of person who drives religious conflict because you cannot accept your side having done anything wrong.

    Replies: @barr

  215. @AltanBakshi
    @Barr

    Little bit of googling and see what I could find, and this is only a small sliver of crimes and transgressions committed in your country. Through many years I have read again, and again about the crimes of your people, and I rarely read Indian newspapers. Not just your Hindus, but even your Christians and Muslim minorities like Shias and Ahmadiyyas live in fear. Even though your Quaid-i-Azam was Shia. I know, you all believe that he was Sunni, and your schools brainwash you to believe so. If Jinnah would see now the state of Pakistan, and how the Shias are treated there, he would be in deep pain and thoroughly disappointed, still its good for us others that your country exists, its like a quarantine zone or reservation for dangerous and violent retards.

    http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/1860/actXLVof1860.html#f108

    Pakistani Penal Code 295-C.
    Use of derogatory remarks, etc., in respect of the Holy Prophet:
    Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.


    "By any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or undirectly,"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9161739/amp/Christian-girl-12-kidnapped-raped-chained-man-45-Pakistan-rescued.html

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/pakistan-s-forced-conversions-brings-shame-on-imran-khan/amp

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1600385

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/1/6/wadi-e-hussain-a-graveyard-for-pakistani-shia

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2014/5/17/living-in-fear-under-pakistans-blasphemy-law

    https://www.economist.com/asia/2014/11/27/bad-mouthing

    http://www.thepersecution.org/archive/9.html

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistani-christians-islam-lynching-trial-muslims-convert-youhanabad-lahore-church-bombings-a7659721.html

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-25874580

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-12617562

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/18/pakistan-textbooks-religious-extremism

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2014/8/18/forced-conversions-torment-pakistans-hindus

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/51401-1000-girls-forcibly-converted-to-islam-in-pakistan-every-year

    https://apnews.com/article/karachi-pakistan-coronavirus-pandemic-christianity-marriage-2d335f305278348540db41b593a9a2a9

    "Each year, 1,000 Pakistani girls forcibly converted to Islam"

    https://herald.dawn.com/news/1153061/state-of-fear

    https://www.firstpost.com/world/mob-sets-fire-to-hindu-community-centre-in-pak-over-blasphemy-1436793.html

    https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/world/story/hindu-teacher-attacked-temple-vandalised-pakistan-sindh-1599432-2019-09-15

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/hindu-temple-in-pakistan-vandalised-set-on-fire/story-06WMhxga1WvRXA4shTjtlI.html

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/15/pakistani-hindus-lose-daughters-forced-muslim-marriages/97013614/

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2075311/1-ppp-lawmakers-turn-bill-forced-conversions?amp=1

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34645370

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-aug-18-fg-schools18-story.html

    Replies: @barr

    Sure Pakistan has done, Saudi Arab . has committed mass murders. It diesnt define Islam . Just as Hinduvatta of RSS variety doesnt define Hinduism . But there is more problems in Hinduism because Hinduvatta has arisen many times in Indian subcontinent obliterating culture and religion of other .

    Long ago I told one once devout Catholic elderly female whether she would stop believing in democracy just because it was abused by Geroge Bush jr or Obama . I woukd have added Trump if the conversation took place today. Because she left the faith because of sex abuse.
    She thought ,smiled ,and thanked me for directing her thinking in a differnt perspective .

    Isolated events in Pakistan of the types yoy mention will shock people anywhere irrespective of religion language geography .
    Just like the Sati in 1987 would have, or the efforts of Hindu governmnet of UP to suppress the news of gang rapes and then blame it on other or even incarecrate journalist for covering ,or keeping religious attendees in jail for months,or putting doctor in jail for discussing medicakly relevant issues just because he was muslim ,or dragging muslim from home and killing because of false suspicion of cow killing . The list goes on and on.

    Again stay on the issue- What were the privilges that muslim enjoyed under Congress rule ?,

    • Replies: @catchastar
    @barr

    Now again the incoherent railing. You're going to pieces. Take a break. Unless someone else took over the evening shift.


    You are fighting a losing battle. The Muslims of India do not need your representation. The ‘disenfranchised’ Bangla muslims you support are illegally in India and are not eligible for citizenship and anyway are racially ‘inferior’ to you Pakistanis since you genocided*** them in 1971 on that very basis, the Shias are doing just fine…they do not need a Paki-sponsored support group who mortally hate them anyway. The Ahmadiyas and other sects who are considered non-Muslim are not your problem either since they are put to death for apostasy in your perfect Islamic state. So who exactly are you fighting for except grinding your own Pakistani axe for imagined hurts or following orders from the Chinese leadership?

    Eventually there WILL be a common civil code in India and all Muslims will have to follow it. Whoever does not like it can leave for where-ever will have them. Not many places will. Certainly, not your Saudi masters or the Chinese. I doubt pakistan will give safe passage to their brethren either.

    ***Btw, how come the ummah doesn’t condemn pakistan for what they did to the Bangladeshis? How come noone ever talks of it here or anywhere? How can the Bangladeshis bear to be part of an ummah that considers them not only racially inferior but was willing to murder them wholesale on that basis? Literal dehumanization by their own co-religionists.

     

    Take care of your own country, build your own communities. Stop meddling in India's affairs or you won't have a country left, and I don't think your Afghan neighbors or Iran will be so welcoming. Certainly Bangladesh won't be laying out the red carpet. You don't represent India's Muslims. Take care of your own internal problems.

    And if you would be inclined to - address the specific issue of the massacre of the Bangladeshis (East Pakistan then) in living memory, no need to go as far back to Nalanda and Mohenjo Daro. Your own countrymen and women, slaughtered wholesale. How dare you give lectures to any other community about violence.

    There WILL be a common civil code and India's Muslims WILL follow it. And if they don't, then they are free to leave and move to the ever-lovin' state of Pakistan.


    ***Oh, and the Bahai's are just fine too. Their beautiful lotus temple attracts people from all over the world. No one is being discriminated.

  216. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @Barr

    History is quite an opaque topic, we can never be sure of what happened, especially when it happened so long ago. But one thing is for sure, violent conversion or coercion to convert through a climate of fear is well within the matrix of Islamic behaviours, as we see to this day in Muslim countries.

    Your general thesis of "Muslims dindu nuffin" is quite ludicrous, even Christianity commited some horrific crimes yet we are meant to think that followers of the much more violent Quran spread their faith relatively peacefully?

    You seem to be applying double standards here, when Buddhists are forced to convert in Afghanistan due to discrimination and them having better prospects in cultural life if they become Muslims, that is completely fine and peaceful by you, but should Muslims face the slightest bit of negativity today you cry foul!

    You people most definitely seem to inherited the quality of Chutzpah from your faith's Semitic forerunners. Come to think of it, there are many similarities between Judaism and Islam, both strongly recommend the barbaric act of male genital mutilation (which has no medical benefits at all) and both avoid pork and slaughter their meat in a "ritual" manner. Both also have drawn very strong lines about how believers and non-believers should be treated. For Jews it is the goyim, for Muslims it is the infidel.

    You two were made for eachother!

    https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_18/1986166/170503-israel-palestine-conflict-cr-0454_02_2e890631b3d9ddde5f35e1f19344bebb.nbcnews-fp-1200-630.jpg

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @barr, @AaronB

    I much prefer commenter “Talha” in these matters.

    While disingenuous in other ways, he’s refreshingly honest about this. He frankly says that wherever Islam predominates, it establishes itself as the alpha religion and creates a discriminatory and coercive environment towards non Muslims, in order to induce them to convert. He defends this as perfectly just and fair, as a result of the “right of conquest” or because they “succeeded” in converting most of the local population, which gives them the right to then lord it over others.

  217. @catchastar
    @KA

    You are fighting a losing battle. The Muslims of India do not need your representation. The 'disenfranchised' Bangla muslims you support are illegally in India and are not eligible for citizenship and anyway are racially 'inferior' to you Pakistanis since you genocided*** them in 1971 on that very basis, the Shias are doing just fine...they do not need a Paki-sponsored support group who mortally hate them anyway. The Ahmadiyas and other sects who are considered non-Muslim are not your problem either since they are put to death for apostasy in your perfect Islamic state. So who exactly are you fighting for except grinding your own Pakistani axe for imagined hurts or following orders from the Chinese leadership?

    Eventually there WILL be a common civil code in India and all Muslims will have to follow it. Whoever does not like it can leave for where-ever will have them. Not many places will. Certainly, not your Saudi masters or the Chinese. I doubt pakistan will give safe passage to their brethren either.

    ***Btw, how come the ummah doesn't condemn pakistan for what they did to the Bangladeshis? How come noone ever talks of it here or anywhere? How can the Bangladeshis bear to be part of an ummah that considers them not only racially inferior but was willing to murder them wholesale on that basis? Literal dehumanization by their own co-religionists.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @KA, @barr

    Yes, mulsim should follow the uniform civil code. The porblem is the very malevolent nature of the Hinduvatta , can Muslim trust Advani Yogi Amit Shah Modi or Sadvi ,or Aranab – gallery of rogue intelelctual thugs,religious fanatics ,racist communal bastards ? Can they trust the supreme court that juts absolved everybody acccused in Babri demolition, nad found none responisble, can they trust the judiciary that acquitted the Hindu fanatucs involved in Gujrat riot , can the world trust a governement that mainatianed silence on the true origin of the fire and the source of the arson on the Godhra train? it cant .
    Now India talks of rule of law and democracy and seculairsm – the buzzword they have nurtured and memorized . Even Taliban dressed in suits and ties speaking English could ,in that case, become democratic,secular,and beliver in the rule of law .

    Code of law is for human. Some aspect is personal,some is related to society,nation,and even possibly outside the interests of the nation. Its a decision that cant be imposed or changed by some fanatic religious elements without inout . Why should muslim belive some thugs who have killed and rioted continuously against muslim since 1987 ,destryoed many mosques ( 15 in 5 days in 2020 in Delhi ) exonertaed Hindu culprits ,overnight removed special status of Kashmir ,corrupted the judiciary ,packed the courts with religious- political nominnes ,and emboldened the communal police forces ?

    Actually the idea is to hurt muslim,make them feel powerless,force them into abject subjugatio( the original goal of RSS Savarkar and Hindu Mashaba in 1930) n in the name of woman’s empowerment ( another buzzword the feckless hideous elite has learned from the west without any intention of honoring ) and make the muslim feel guilty .Idea is not to empower woman. Dowry death gang rape ,parading woman naked sexual explotation of female labor , – are few among many fates that visit Indian women everyday .

    Will it – disempowerment of mulsim – work? May be . But one thing we could be sure,the day it stops working, we will call muslim repsonse as terrorism .

    1857 gave rise to strident anti muslim Hundu nationalism . 911 has given rise to similar strudnet nati mulsim Hinfuvatta .

    lets see how this pans out . Differnce is thus time ideologically Hindu nationalsim has sought relationship with Zionism and with figure like Bannon .

    Lets see how this ends .

  218. @Bashibuzuk
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell


    You two were made for eachother!
     
    Absolutely correct.

    We shouldn't get involved in their family feud. Let them sort it out among "Abraham's children ".

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/3f/0e/eb3f0ea125004dfbc51960aa4e0cd2ad.jpg

    https://pics.me.me/the-first-shiksas-are-for-practice-in-history-hagar-sarah-65537968.png

    The farther we stay from all this Semitic nonsense the better it will be.

    Replies: @AaronB

    Isn’t that just another version of “us vs them” analogous in every way to the Jewish vs goyim or the Muslim vs infidel paradigm?

    Or the supposedly Buddhist (emphasis on supposedly) AltanBakshi describing Americans as a nation of mlecchas ruled by demons – utterly dehumanizing them?

    You, Altan, and that Sikh character, the representatives of “Dharmic faiths” here, are generally some of the most arrogant, contemptuous, aggressive, and angry people on this blog.

    If AltanBakshi represents Buddhism, then that is just another fine illustration of my thesis that religion has zero impact on character or morality…

    Which is actually quite fascinating and good fodder for my theorizing. Dharmic faiths are “officially” more gentle and peaceful than Semitic faiths (is that even true? Sikhs are warlike, the Bagavad Gita defends going to war against relatives, while the later Biblical Prophets talk of the lion lying down with the lamb and swords being beaten into ploughshares, and of course Jesus…), yet their practitioners are as violent, aggressive, and angry as any other.

    Buddhist Thaliand and Burma was as violent and warlike as any Christian country.

    My (developing) theory is that official ideology has precisely zero impact on a groups behavior or character and is not to be taken literally at all, and may have a completely different and unexpected function than as an actual guide to behavior.

    Instead of taking an official ideology at face value, one should understand its social function or role – it may be that any ideology will serve as social glue or badge of identity. Or, it may be that a group needs a lofty moral vision to pay lip service to as it indulges in aggression and violence.

    Apparently, AltanBakahi feels comfortable utterly dehumanizing Americans because he himself is Buddhist, and thus so much more morally superior.

    It may be that claims of moral superiority psychologically function as justification for aggression towards other groups.

    If so, claims of moral superiority – idealistic religions or idealistic ideologies – may be the opposite of what they appear – not aspirations towards justice and peace, but rather, should be classified among man’s warlike tendencies.

    Has there ever been a simple, humble person, who laughs at himself and doesn’t take himself seriously, who doesn’t think he’s morally superior and knows quite well that he has faults, is selfish, vain, petty, etc, and who is ok with his failings, who is especially aggressive towards his fellows? Yet we all know the self-righteous morally superior fellow and what he is capable of…

    That is why true Buddhism (the highest levels of Tibetan Buddhism) tells you not to try and become morally superior or perfect yourself, or to take yourself seriously…and all true religions end up with that at their highest levels…they well understand the dangers of moral self righteousness, of trying to perfect oneself…

    Hmm, these are interesting reflections I must sit on for a while…

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AaronB

    ...and the circle is complete...


    Anyway, its nice to hear about you AaronB, I hope that you are well.

    Its quite ironic, that some one like you, who is a self professed free thinker and libertine, cant grasp poetical or metaphysical meaning behind my words, oh well its always like that with you, when it suits you, you become a pharisee who takes everything literally, and when it doesnt, you just say that all this is play which should not be taken seriously.

    Dont worry I think you are all right, even with your faults, so calm down.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @Jatt Aryaa
    @AaronB

    https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/05/09/are-sikhs-exceptional/

    There's a difference between hating jews and hating Nazis.

    You are not worth debating.

  219. @barr
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    For too long your forefathers have taught you a lot of lies about other religions.
    Bring here your documents that show Islam spread due to sword in India or even in Arab or in China or Mongolia or Central Asia or Nigeria.
    " c act of male genital mutilation" better than drinking cow 's urine . Thats none of my business if you drink . Just dont force on other by parading it as treatment of Corona and other ailments.( and who knows it might have benefit but until then ,stick to science)
    By the way dont change goalpost .

    "Buddhists are forced to convert in Afghanistan due to discrimination and them having better prospects in cultural life if they become Muslims, that is completely fine and peaceful by you, but should Muslims face the slightest bit of negativity today you cry foul!"

    Do you know how to think .? If torture and deprivation and violence coould explain large scale conversion , Kashmiris would have agreed to become Hindus ,- any kimd of Hindu even the lowest of the lowest rung of the Hindusim some 20 yrs ago .

    Dont change goalpost. Where is the evidence that Muslims enjoyed privilges under Congress ? Thats what started the conversation.

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    I am not a Hindu, I presume in your twisted world anyone who calls out your obvious Muslim supremacism is a Hindu/Zionist/whatever.

    The fact is Muslims are violent just like other groups, they are no saints who are just peacefully trying to spread the truth and in the process get persecuted by heretics. We see this around the world, they take advantage of their host societies, refuse to make even an iota of an effort to integrate and maintain their own culture in their new nations, all while having a disdain for the natives.

    Whenever some group gets tired of them, say the Buddhists in Myanmar, then suddenly they raise a cry so loud that it is heard around the world and rally the Ummah around their “cause”

    Just like some other religious/ethnic chauvinists, Muslim supremacists like yourself will keep asking for sources over and over again, to gaslight people and make them question their own intuition. Never mind that Muslims are massacring Christians in the likes of Nigeria as we speak, never mind that they even persecute heretical sects of their own religion, we are just supposed to ignore that and consider any such reports to be lies!

    For the moment, Europeans are far too meek to stand up, but when some less “liberal” groups in the Third World (like the Hindus in India or the Buddhists in Burma) fight back, then suddenly it is a crime against humanity.

    For the average Muslim supremacist, the fingernail of one of his co-religionists is worth more than all infidels combined.

    Dont change goalpost. Where is the evidence that Muslims enjoyed privilges under Congress ? Thats what started the conversation.

    OK, it seems like you have mistaken me for another commenter, but to address this point, are Muslims in India really persecuted? Why have their numbers (both as a percentage of the population and total population) only increased since 1947?

    You clearly seem brainwashed, and clearly the type of person who drives religious conflict because you cannot accept your side having done anything wrong.

    • Replies: @barr
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Your demand for integrtaion is nothing but akin to Taliban 's idea of integration .

    Your denunciation of violence and then seeking violince to force inetgrtaion reinforced , added and fulled by reosurces from Hinduvatta and Burmese 699 or whatever movemnet stinks to the high hevaen of pure dishonesty

    Since yiu niether yiur bretthern could give me an expamle of Muslim provilges , may be yiu can try this - what is the integrtaion failures yiu are taking about .

    Lets see muslim wear veil . Listen pal so does the nuns ,
    Muslim attire looks differnt . So does teh attire of the catholic priests
    Mulsim eats sliaghtered animals.
    Entire meat buisness is based on cruelty to animals.

    Mulsim wont accept the diktat of NATO and USA . Yes,becuase the secular movment has been gutted by US - UK , thise mulsims who could have raised similar resistnace ,have been eliminated . Now its on the muslim iwthout label .
    That diktat is not accepted by Venejuala Nicargua by China and many other .

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @catchastar, @AltanBakshi

  220. @catchastar
    @KA

    You are fighting a losing battle. The Muslims of India do not need your representation. The 'disenfranchised' Bangla muslims you support are illegally in India and are not eligible for citizenship and anyway are racially 'inferior' to you Pakistanis since you genocided*** them in 1971 on that very basis, the Shias are doing just fine...they do not need a Paki-sponsored support group who mortally hate them anyway. The Ahmadiyas and other sects who are considered non-Muslim are not your problem either since they are put to death for apostasy in your perfect Islamic state. So who exactly are you fighting for except grinding your own Pakistani axe for imagined hurts or following orders from the Chinese leadership?

    Eventually there WILL be a common civil code in India and all Muslims will have to follow it. Whoever does not like it can leave for where-ever will have them. Not many places will. Certainly, not your Saudi masters or the Chinese. I doubt pakistan will give safe passage to their brethren either.

    ***Btw, how come the ummah doesn't condemn pakistan for what they did to the Bangladeshis? How come noone ever talks of it here or anywhere? How can the Bangladeshis bear to be part of an ummah that considers them not only racially inferior but was willing to murder them wholesale on that basis? Literal dehumanization by their own co-religionists.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @KA, @barr

    Common Code .

    Indian common code doesnt apply where its application will make it most relevnat apporpirtae and just . Ito doesn’t .
    The 50% reservation quota for Hindu underclass ( though the benificiaries have been mostly the middle class Hindus and nit the untichabke or teh forest dwellers ) doesnt apply to muslim or Christian . It is claimed that mulsim nad christian dont have casteism . So it wont apply.
    But issue is not that. Why mulsim and Chrostian should pay for whats wrong with Hinudism ? Why doesnt the goverment fix the system making it applicbale to economcally disdvantaged ?
    If Hindus want to make amends, they should devise other ways to do it – like reserving the places for mulsim Hindus Chrstian Sikhs and then subdiviidng the places slated for Hindus between upper caste and lower caste .

    Another glaring intentional in your -face -type malevolent act is to remove special provisions ( agreed by various parties in 50s) of Jammu Kashmir and allow the special provisions for north east remain.

    By the way if permannet majority could make laws for permannet minoroties, then Shariahshoukf be excused of wrong applocation if and when applied to the minority .

    Shariah doesnt appplly to minority precisely for one of these reasons.

    If common code violates some principle of minortites and the prinicple in consideration doesnt matter to the majority, then the application of the code has to be endorsed and voted by the minority . That pricniple is inherent part of the democrcay .

    • Agree: Philip Owen
  221. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @barr

    I am not a Hindu, I presume in your twisted world anyone who calls out your obvious Muslim supremacism is a Hindu/Zionist/whatever.

    The fact is Muslims are violent just like other groups, they are no saints who are just peacefully trying to spread the truth and in the process get persecuted by heretics. We see this around the world, they take advantage of their host societies, refuse to make even an iota of an effort to integrate and maintain their own culture in their new nations, all while having a disdain for the natives.

    Whenever some group gets tired of them, say the Buddhists in Myanmar, then suddenly they raise a cry so loud that it is heard around the world and rally the Ummah around their "cause"

    Just like some other religious/ethnic chauvinists, Muslim supremacists like yourself will keep asking for sources over and over again, to gaslight people and make them question their own intuition. Never mind that Muslims are massacring Christians in the likes of Nigeria as we speak, never mind that they even persecute heretical sects of their own religion, we are just supposed to ignore that and consider any such reports to be lies!

    For the moment, Europeans are far too meek to stand up, but when some less "liberal" groups in the Third World (like the Hindus in India or the Buddhists in Burma) fight back, then suddenly it is a crime against humanity.

    For the average Muslim supremacist, the fingernail of one of his co-religionists is worth more than all infidels combined.


    Dont change goalpost. Where is the evidence that Muslims enjoyed privilges under Congress ? Thats what started the conversation.

     

    OK, it seems like you have mistaken me for another commenter, but to address this point, are Muslims in India really persecuted? Why have their numbers (both as a percentage of the population and total population) only increased since 1947?

    You clearly seem brainwashed, and clearly the type of person who drives religious conflict because you cannot accept your side having done anything wrong.

    Replies: @barr

    Your demand for integrtaion is nothing but akin to Taliban ‘s idea of integration .

    Your denunciation of violence and then seeking violince to force inetgrtaion reinforced , added and fulled by reosurces from Hinduvatta and Burmese 699 or whatever movemnet stinks to the high hevaen of pure dishonesty

    Since yiu niether yiur bretthern could give me an expamle of Muslim provilges , may be yiu can try this – what is the integrtaion failures yiu are taking about .

    Lets see muslim wear veil . Listen pal so does the nuns ,
    Muslim attire looks differnt . So does teh attire of the catholic priests
    Mulsim eats sliaghtered animals.
    Entire meat buisness is based on cruelty to animals.

    Mulsim wont accept the diktat of NATO and USA . Yes,becuase the secular movment has been gutted by US – UK , thise mulsims who could have raised similar resistnace ,have been eliminated . Now its on the muslim iwthout label .
    That diktat is not accepted by Venejuala Nicargua by China and many other .

    • Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell
    @barr

    Muslim privilege means being able to form tightly knit networks in non-Muslim countries, particularly Western ones, in which you can aggressively campaign to change the norms of other people. If you don't want to eat pork then fine, but why exactly do the rest of us have to stand for your cruel Halal slaughter in our lands? I won't accept your false equivalences, I do not need a reason to dislike your way of life, it is entirely based on emotion just as your way of life is based on emotion.

    Muslims cannot be integrated at all, this is why they are best left in their own countries, because once you let them into yours they will naturally form enclaves and operate in a way to maximise their own groups standing even (and often this is the case) if it comes at the expense of outgroups.

    We see that there is no freedom in Muslim countries to behave as you want, because many people would behave in unIslamic ways and thus would offend the sensibilities of the majority. And being the low IQ savages that most Muslims are, it is highly probable that people who offend the majority population in Muslim nations will be lynched by a mob and with the tacit approval of the authorities.


    , may be yiu can try this – what is the integrtaion failures yiu are taking about
     
    Maybe you can explain why Muslims like to live amongst the infidels and their immoral ways when they have their own religious states? Why do you cry genocide and persecution when the majority oppose your kind, you certainly do not seem to care this much when minorities are being lynched and subjected to genocide in Muslim countries, brushing them aside as "isolated incidents"

    What I really denounce is diversity, not violence as the former is the cause of the latter. I question why Hindus are in Pakistan and why Muslims are in India, there is after all a reason why these two countries were formed.
    , @catchastar
    @barr

    We're crossing over into satire territory now. So Indians are now the equivalent of the Taliban for wanting a common civil code, and for not wanting to give illegal muslims citizenship when they have an entire country (or two) that was carved out just for them ON THE BASIS OF RELIGION. Violence and dishonesty and RSS propaganda and suchlike words being bandied about for any coherent rebuttal.

    But no real world actions define Islam. Not the violence of it's adherents, not their cultish beliefs, not the mass murders and cruelty that seem to be a hallmark of most Muslim societies and countries, not their veiled women, not the religious sanctioned lying, not the stonings and beheadings, not the chopping off of hands for thievery, not the requirement of four (or is it five?) male witnesses to prove a woman was raped...none of this is Islamic, but due to the fallen nature of man.

    But if an isolated rare sati case happens (a completely outlawed practice) or vigilantes do something stupid like beating or killing someone over a suspected cow killing, then it is definitely the Hindu religion. Never mind that it is not state sanctioned and all accused will be arrested, imprisoned and definitely prosecuted, and widely vilified in the media and by human rights groups.

    You want to live out your religion-sanctioned lives? Go do it in the countries earmarked for your kind.

    , @AltanBakshi
    @barr


    Since yiu niether yiur bretthern could give me an expamle of Muslim provilges , may be yiu can try this – what is the integrtaion failures yiu are taking about .

    Lets see muslim wear veil . Listen pal so does the nuns ,
    Muslim attire looks differnt . So does teh attire of the catholic priests
    Mulsim eats sliaghtered animals.
    Entire meat buisness is based on cruelty to animals.
     
    Your brain on drugs... oh wait a minute? If its not drugs, then what else can make a healthy person to slur and garble like this?

    Replies: @KA

  222. @barr
    @AltanBakshi

    Sure Pakistan has done, Saudi Arab . has committed mass murders. It diesnt define Islam . Just as Hinduvatta of RSS variety doesnt define Hinduism . But there is more problems in Hinduism because Hinduvatta has arisen many times in Indian subcontinent obliterating culture and religion of other .


    Long ago I told one once devout Catholic elderly female whether she would stop believing in democracy just because it was abused by Geroge Bush jr or Obama . I woukd have added Trump if the conversation took place today. Because she left the faith because of sex abuse.
    She thought ,smiled ,and thanked me for directing her thinking in a differnt perspective .

    Isolated events in Pakistan of the types yoy mention will shock people anywhere irrespective of religion language geography .
    Just like the Sati in 1987 would have, or the efforts of Hindu governmnet of UP to suppress the news of gang rapes and then blame it on other or even incarecrate journalist for covering ,or keeping religious attendees in jail for months,or putting doctor in jail for discussing medicakly relevant issues just because he was muslim ,or dragging muslim from home and killing because of false suspicion of cow killing . The list goes on and on.



    Again stay on the issue- What were the privilges that muslim enjoyed under Congress rule ?,

    Replies: @catchastar

    Now again the incoherent railing. You’re going to pieces. Take a break. Unless someone else took over the evening shift.

    You are fighting a losing battle. The Muslims of India do not need your representation. The ‘disenfranchised’ Bangla muslims you support are illegally in India and are not eligible for citizenship and anyway are racially ‘inferior’ to you Pakistanis since you genocided*** them in 1971 on that very basis, the Shias are doing just fine…they do not need a Paki-sponsored support group who mortally hate them anyway. The Ahmadiyas and other sects who are considered non-Muslim are not your problem either since they are put to death for apostasy in your perfect Islamic state. So who exactly are you fighting for except grinding your own Pakistani axe for imagined hurts or following orders from the Chinese leadership?

    Eventually there WILL be a common civil code in India and all Muslims will have to follow it. Whoever does not like it can leave for where-ever will have them. Not many places will. Certainly, not your Saudi masters or the Chinese. I doubt pakistan will give safe passage to their brethren either.

    ***Btw, how come the ummah doesn’t condemn pakistan for what they did to the Bangladeshis? How come noone ever talks of it here or anywhere? How can the Bangladeshis bear to be part of an ummah that considers them not only racially inferior but was willing to murder them wholesale on that basis? Literal dehumanization by their own co-religionists.

    Take care of your own country, build your own communities. Stop meddling in India’s affairs or you won’t have a country left, and I don’t think your Afghan neighbors or Iran will be so welcoming. Certainly Bangladesh won’t be laying out the red carpet. You don’t represent India’s Muslims. Take care of your own internal problems.

    And if you would be inclined to – address the specific issue of the massacre of the Bangladeshis (East Pakistan then) in living memory, no need to go as far back to Nalanda and Mohenjo Daro. Your own countrymen and women, slaughtered wholesale. How dare you give lectures to any other community about violence.

    There WILL be a common civil code and India’s Muslims WILL follow it. And if they don’t, then they are free to leave and move to the ever-lovin’ state of Pakistan.

    ***Oh, and the Bahai’s are just fine too. Their beautiful lotus temple attracts people from all over the world. No one is being discriminated.

  223. @barr
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Your demand for integrtaion is nothing but akin to Taliban 's idea of integration .

    Your denunciation of violence and then seeking violince to force inetgrtaion reinforced , added and fulled by reosurces from Hinduvatta and Burmese 699 or whatever movemnet stinks to the high hevaen of pure dishonesty

    Since yiu niether yiur bretthern could give me an expamle of Muslim provilges , may be yiu can try this - what is the integrtaion failures yiu are taking about .

    Lets see muslim wear veil . Listen pal so does the nuns ,
    Muslim attire looks differnt . So does teh attire of the catholic priests
    Mulsim eats sliaghtered animals.
    Entire meat buisness is based on cruelty to animals.

    Mulsim wont accept the diktat of NATO and USA . Yes,becuase the secular movment has been gutted by US - UK , thise mulsims who could have raised similar resistnace ,have been eliminated . Now its on the muslim iwthout label .
    That diktat is not accepted by Venejuala Nicargua by China and many other .

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @catchastar, @AltanBakshi

    Muslim privilege means being able to form tightly knit networks in non-Muslim countries, particularly Western ones, in which you can aggressively campaign to change the norms of other people. If you don’t want to eat pork then fine, but why exactly do the rest of us have to stand for your cruel Halal slaughter in our lands? I won’t accept your false equivalences, I do not need a reason to dislike your way of life, it is entirely based on emotion just as your way of life is based on emotion.

    Muslims cannot be integrated at all, this is why they are best left in their own countries, because once you let them into yours they will naturally form enclaves and operate in a way to maximise their own groups standing even (and often this is the case) if it comes at the expense of outgroups.

    We see that there is no freedom in Muslim countries to behave as you want, because many people would behave in unIslamic ways and thus would offend the sensibilities of the majority. And being the low IQ savages that most Muslims are, it is highly probable that people who offend the majority population in Muslim nations will be lynched by a mob and with the tacit approval of the authorities.

    , may be yiu can try this – what is the integrtaion failures yiu are taking about

    Maybe you can explain why Muslims like to live amongst the infidels and their immoral ways when they have their own religious states? Why do you cry genocide and persecution when the majority oppose your kind, you certainly do not seem to care this much when minorities are being lynched and subjected to genocide in Muslim countries, brushing them aside as “isolated incidents”

    What I really denounce is diversity, not violence as the former is the cause of the latter. I question why Hindus are in Pakistan and why Muslims are in India, there is after all a reason why these two countries were formed.

  224. AltanBakshi, The Spirit of Enoch Powell, Bashibuzuk, catchastar, Vishnugupta 

    No sensible person supports the behaviors of Nigerian kidnapping of girls (invariably muslims ) ,attacking Christians, or Pakistan treating non -sunni minorities or linguistic minorities with unfairness ,injustice or violence .
    But large number of Hindus think that these foreign occurrences justify violence against Muslim . Their fallback argument is like Whatboutism . What about muslims killing muslims in Nigeria Syria or Pakistan or Kabul whenever the secular democratic sanction-free India is reminded of the persistent failures of the Indian government in offering basic safety security from the rising vandalism criminality organized violence from the RSS -BJP community and denial of justice .

    Until India is treated like Nigeria ISIS or Pakistan ,India should at least try to honor its own basic principle . Muslims are not asking to be given any preference or undue opportunity or even access to things most Indian take for granted. They just want safety .
    But Hinduvatta and its multiple offsprings like Overseas Friend of BJP want the world to believe and accept the treatment of Indian muslims in hand of the RSS Bajrang Dal Shiv Sena Ram Sena , state police or BJP political leaders as normal ,ideal, nonviolent, non-discrimantory .

    And the stupid I Q value memorized , measured and told by the autistic moron father has no relevance to this argument .

    Nigerian attacks Christian . Kenya and Ethiopia – mostly Christian attacked Somalia a Muslim country just because US gov paid and bribed and because US gov elevated their stature . Somalian or Nigerian shouldn’t take revenge on the Christian for that or any reason . But the religious angle can’t be missed the choice of Bush or acceptance of Kenya and Ethiopia. So much for stability and integration when these countries have muslim citizen !!

    Halal meat is none of your ( selective )business . Neither is dress or daily offering of prayers . Stop eating meat and make it mandatory .Muslim will go for that . its a nefarious -purpose -driven integration model with ulterior motive .

    If Jewish people can live in their enclaves, if blacks are forced to live in enclaves, if Amish people can live in their tight knit community ,if Mexcican can form their own little villages, so can muslim But I have not seen one yet in USA Canada Australia . Britain has muslim Hindu Sikh Polish and Jewish and black ghetto .

    Indian Civil code will win today and there is always tomorrow . In that tomorrow, Hinduvtta’s face will be exposed and be dragged on the floor smeared and wet with cow dung and urine before being banished from the face of the earth .

    • Replies: @catchastar
    @barr

    This man is fascinating and tired I suspect.

    Are you seriously comparing the ginormous Muslim community to the tiny Jewish and Amish ones? Now we're going on a world tour to Africa - Kenya, Nigeria, Somalia and false equivalencies galore. With halal meat, cow dung and urine, and a threat to be banished from planet earth thrown in for good measure.



    And the stupid I Q value memorized , measured and told by the autistic moron father has no relevance to this argument
     
    What does this mean?

    This is hysterical.
  225. @barr
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Your demand for integrtaion is nothing but akin to Taliban 's idea of integration .

    Your denunciation of violence and then seeking violince to force inetgrtaion reinforced , added and fulled by reosurces from Hinduvatta and Burmese 699 or whatever movemnet stinks to the high hevaen of pure dishonesty

    Since yiu niether yiur bretthern could give me an expamle of Muslim provilges , may be yiu can try this - what is the integrtaion failures yiu are taking about .

    Lets see muslim wear veil . Listen pal so does the nuns ,
    Muslim attire looks differnt . So does teh attire of the catholic priests
    Mulsim eats sliaghtered animals.
    Entire meat buisness is based on cruelty to animals.

    Mulsim wont accept the diktat of NATO and USA . Yes,becuase the secular movment has been gutted by US - UK , thise mulsims who could have raised similar resistnace ,have been eliminated . Now its on the muslim iwthout label .
    That diktat is not accepted by Venejuala Nicargua by China and many other .

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @catchastar, @AltanBakshi

    We’re crossing over into satire territory now. So Indians are now the equivalent of the Taliban for wanting a common civil code, and for not wanting to give illegal muslims citizenship when they have an entire country (or two) that was carved out just for them ON THE BASIS OF RELIGION. Violence and dishonesty and RSS propaganda and suchlike words being bandied about for any coherent rebuttal.

    But no real world actions define Islam. Not the violence of it’s adherents, not their cultish beliefs, not the mass murders and cruelty that seem to be a hallmark of most Muslim societies and countries, not their veiled women, not the religious sanctioned lying, not the stonings and beheadings, not the chopping off of hands for thievery, not the requirement of four (or is it five?) male witnesses to prove a woman was raped…none of this is Islamic, but due to the fallen nature of man.

    But if an isolated rare sati case happens (a completely outlawed practice) or vigilantes do something stupid like beating or killing someone over a suspected cow killing, then it is definitely the Hindu religion. Never mind that it is not state sanctioned and all accused will be arrested, imprisoned and definitely prosecuted, and widely vilified in the media and by human rights groups.

    You want to live out your religion-sanctioned lives? Go do it in the countries earmarked for your kind.

  226. @AaronB
    @Bashibuzuk

    Isn't that just another version of "us vs them" analogous in every way to the Jewish vs goyim or the Muslim vs infidel paradigm?

    Or the supposedly Buddhist (emphasis on supposedly) AltanBakshi describing Americans as a nation of mlecchas ruled by demons - utterly dehumanizing them?

    You, Altan, and that Sikh character, the representatives of "Dharmic faiths" here, are generally some of the most arrogant, contemptuous, aggressive, and angry people on this blog.

    If AltanBakshi represents Buddhism, then that is just another fine illustration of my thesis that religion has zero impact on character or morality...

    Which is actually quite fascinating and good fodder for my theorizing. Dharmic faiths are "officially" more gentle and peaceful than Semitic faiths (is that even true? Sikhs are warlike, the Bagavad Gita defends going to war against relatives, while the later Biblical Prophets talk of the lion lying down with the lamb and swords being beaten into ploughshares, and of course Jesus...), yet their practitioners are as violent, aggressive, and angry as any other.

    Buddhist Thaliand and Burma was as violent and warlike as any Christian country.

    My (developing) theory is that official ideology has precisely zero impact on a groups behavior or character and is not to be taken literally at all, and may have a completely different and unexpected function than as an actual guide to behavior.

    Instead of taking an official ideology at face value, one should understand its social function or role - it may be that any ideology will serve as social glue or badge of identity. Or, it may be that a group needs a lofty moral vision to pay lip service to as it indulges in aggression and violence.

    Apparently, AltanBakahi feels comfortable utterly dehumanizing Americans because he himself is Buddhist, and thus so much more morally superior.

    It may be that claims of moral superiority psychologically function as justification for aggression towards other groups.

    If so, claims of moral superiority - idealistic religions or idealistic ideologies - may be the opposite of what they appear - not aspirations towards justice and peace, but rather, should be classified among man's warlike tendencies.

    Has there ever been a simple, humble person, who laughs at himself and doesn't take himself seriously, who doesn't think he's morally superior and knows quite well that he has faults, is selfish, vain, petty, etc, and who is ok with his failings, who is especially aggressive towards his fellows? Yet we all know the self-righteous morally superior fellow and what he is capable of...

    That is why true Buddhism (the highest levels of Tibetan Buddhism) tells you not to try and become morally superior or perfect yourself, or to take yourself seriously...and all true religions end up with that at their highest levels...they well understand the dangers of moral self righteousness, of trying to perfect oneself...

    Hmm, these are interesting reflections I must sit on for a while...

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Jatt Aryaa

    …and the circle is complete…

    Anyway, its nice to hear about you AaronB, I hope that you are well.

    Its quite ironic, that some one like you, who is a self professed free thinker and libertine, cant grasp poetical or metaphysical meaning behind my words, oh well its always like that with you, when it suits you, you become a pharisee who takes everything literally, and when it doesnt, you just say that all this is play which should not be taken seriously.

    Dont worry I think you are all right, even with your faults, so calm down.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    Most of my opinions, even emotioned ones, are based on reason and compassion, even if they superficially sometimes look angry and negative, so often you talk about high level Buddhism, but it seems that you think that things are how they look at the first impression?

    First I thought that Im not going to explain myself, but surely you must understand why American capitalist elites are demonic? Lets make a few examples, so that my message goes to your head. Do you agree that propaganda which tries to inspire negative afflictions is not good, and that we should fight against it? In the Nazi Germany there was propaganda that tried to make people more chauvinistic, more jingoistic and so on. Of course such propaganda is no good, such atmosphere breeds negative afflictions like hatred and anger. Nowadays we in the west, live in a capitalistic society and are surrounded by propaganda, made by our elites, that propaganda does not try to stimulate our xenophobia, but our greed and desire, still afflictions are afflictions, and our whole system is based on constant greed and desire, our system needs it to sustain itself. Such elites whose system is based on constant stimulation of desire and greed, constant growth of desire, constant invention of new things and trends which people should desire, such elites who lead such system are demonic, such elites who need negative afflictions are demonic and their social system lacks moral basis. Its somewhat hypocritical that you didnt understand my point about " Americans being led by demons", when in the past you yourself have expressed sympathy and understanding towards the Soviet Union and early Socialism. Even His Holiness says often, that even if Socialism and Communism have their faults, they are based on some kind of morals, unlike capitalism, in that regards NatSoc was amoralistic in comparison with the Communism. In NatSoc philosophy there are no morals, only the interest of ones ethnic community, in Capitalism, there are no morals, only increase of profit matters. Im of course some what overly simplifying matters, but you get my meaning.

    Then maybe you have noticed my bashing of Evangelicals, theres actually very good reason for it. You probably agree that confusion breeds negative emotions? With Reformed church there is a strong disconnection with the past, unlike with apostolic Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc. Many, or most in the developing world, of those who are converted to reformed or evangelical churches, come from animistic or shamanistic milieu, they are often poor, downtrodden and backwards, rich western evangelicals come and convert them, say that their old ways were satanic and so on. Of course many of those tribal people will get education and healthcare, but as you can see from the world of Islam, a strong disconnection and severing of ties with the past breeds confusion, its like a time bomb, if you dont know where you came, its harder to you know where you are going, I think you will understand this easily, after all Jews have an excellent connection with their past and tradition, it brings them protection and safety. So often those tribal people in Nagaland, Burma, Namibia and so on become fervently evangelical, in the beginning, its afterall a quick way to have some western things, but behind the exterior, there are often huge problems, fanatic and ignorant pastors, alcoholism, abuse and so on, and even if there are not, they dont have fervor to continue upkeeping their faith in the same way, after the western missionaries leave, at least not for long, and often they just repeat alien customs and rites like children, without truly understanding what they mean, but thinking like cargo cultists that it will make them prosperous like Americans, but one day they wake up and start to understand that the answers to their problems are not so easy, and then the social problems are going to get worse in their community, but in traditional religions, the disconnection with the past is not so strong. Its well known that in Catholic and Orthodox countries many pagan traditions continue in Christian form, even if some of the more fervent Catholics or Orthodox deny the fact, everywhere from Mexico to Serbia there are lots of pre Christian influences left in their Christianity, in Buddhism and Hinduism its even simpler, tribal gods become part of Hindu or Buddhist pantheon, or they are just different manifestations of Dharmic gods. Even HH Dalai Lama criticizes how fervently evangelicals love to convert tribal people, of course everyone has a right to convert to which religion they want, but such processes leave long imprints in the collective memory of tribe, therefore its not good for missionaries to be like snake oil merchants and promise moon from the sky if some tribe converts to their religion. Its very nice that in India and China ,many tribal groups have reformed their old animism, and new established religions out of them, in that way they are masters of their own destinies, at least on spiritual sphere.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mun_(religion)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirat_Mundhum

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donyi-Polo

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimoism

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongba

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzhuism

  227. @AltanBakshi
    @Daniel Chieh

    You cant be racist against Islam, its a religion, not a race or an ethnic group.

    Replies: @catchastar, @Daniel Chieh, @Stan

    Islam is more than a religion. It is Arab cultural imperialism.

  228. @barr
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Your demand for integrtaion is nothing but akin to Taliban 's idea of integration .

    Your denunciation of violence and then seeking violince to force inetgrtaion reinforced , added and fulled by reosurces from Hinduvatta and Burmese 699 or whatever movemnet stinks to the high hevaen of pure dishonesty

    Since yiu niether yiur bretthern could give me an expamle of Muslim provilges , may be yiu can try this - what is the integrtaion failures yiu are taking about .

    Lets see muslim wear veil . Listen pal so does the nuns ,
    Muslim attire looks differnt . So does teh attire of the catholic priests
    Mulsim eats sliaghtered animals.
    Entire meat buisness is based on cruelty to animals.

    Mulsim wont accept the diktat of NATO and USA . Yes,becuase the secular movment has been gutted by US - UK , thise mulsims who could have raised similar resistnace ,have been eliminated . Now its on the muslim iwthout label .
    That diktat is not accepted by Venejuala Nicargua by China and many other .

    Replies: @The Spirit of Enoch Powell, @catchastar, @AltanBakshi

    Since yiu niether yiur bretthern could give me an expamle of Muslim provilges , may be yiu can try this – what is the integrtaion failures yiu are taking about .

    Lets see muslim wear veil . Listen pal so does the nuns ,
    Muslim attire looks differnt . So does teh attire of the catholic priests
    Mulsim eats sliaghtered animals.
    Entire meat buisness is based on cruelty to animals.

    Your brain on drugs… oh wait a minute? If its not drugs, then what else can make a healthy person to slur and garble like this?

    • Replies: @KA
    @AltanBakshi

    let us know why muslims should stop eating halal? Is it in the constitution ? If the disapproval is based on cruelty, why should stop there . We should ban any kind of animal handlings thst serve human interests and not the interrsts of animals .( including hormone treatment ,prividing animal feeds to vegetarian animals , putting them in crowded closed space , transporting them in the hot humid dark closed areas for months )

    Why muslim shouldnit be permitted to wear veil if they want , if they insists on ?
    Nuns wear odd outfit in open public space . Transgender wear outfits in public that might have drawn ridicule and denunciation few years ago . White House hosts dinner and meeting with religuous leaders wearing overt realigious symbols . Does even Saudi or any Arab country ask the expatriate to wear the typical local outfit ?

    Any weekend ,visit one of the union train stations in Chicago, Pennsylvania or Mileaukee, you will see oddly dressed Amish families . Nothing wrong with that . Why is someone talking of integration ?,
    Its fanatical Europe - and the carpetbagger India who bring it up for serving crude interests of some nasty people .

    Replies: @catchastar

  229. @barr
    AltanBakshi, The Spirit of Enoch Powell, Bashibuzuk, catchastar, Vishnugupta 


    No sensible person supports the behaviors of Nigerian kidnapping of girls (invariably muslims ) ,attacking Christians, or Pakistan treating non -sunni minorities or linguistic minorities with unfairness ,injustice or violence .
    But large number of Hindus think that these foreign occurrences justify violence against Muslim . Their fallback argument is like Whatboutism . What about muslims killing muslims in Nigeria Syria or Pakistan or Kabul whenever the secular democratic sanction-free India is reminded of the persistent failures of the Indian government in offering basic safety security from the rising vandalism criminality organized violence from the RSS -BJP community and denial of justice .

    Until India is treated like Nigeria ISIS or Pakistan ,India should at least try to honor its own basic principle . Muslims are not asking to be given any preference or undue opportunity or even access to things most Indian take for granted. They just want safety .
    But Hinduvatta and its multiple offsprings like Overseas Friend of BJP want the world to believe and accept the treatment of Indian muslims in hand of the RSS Bajrang Dal Shiv Sena Ram Sena , state police or BJP political leaders as normal ,ideal, nonviolent, non-discrimantory .

    And the stupid I Q value memorized , measured and told by the autistic moron father has no relevance to this argument .

    Nigerian attacks Christian . Kenya and Ethiopia - mostly Christian attacked Somalia a Muslim country just because US gov paid and bribed and because US gov elevated their stature . Somalian or Nigerian shouldn’t take revenge on the Christian for that or any reason . But the religious angle can’t be missed the choice of Bush or acceptance of Kenya and Ethiopia. So much for stability and integration when these countries have muslim citizen !!


    Halal meat is none of your ( selective )business . Neither is dress or daily offering of prayers . Stop eating meat and make it mandatory .Muslim will go for that . its a nefarious -purpose -driven integration model with ulterior motive .

    If Jewish people can live in their enclaves, if blacks are forced to live in enclaves, if Amish people can live in their tight knit community ,if Mexcican can form their own little villages, so can muslim But I have not seen one yet in USA Canada Australia . Britain has muslim Hindu Sikh Polish and Jewish and black ghetto .

    Indian Civil code will win today and there is always tomorrow . In that tomorrow, Hinduvtta’s face will be exposed and be dragged on the floor smeared and wet with cow dung and urine before being banished from the face of the earth .

    Replies: @catchastar

    This man is fascinating and tired I suspect.

    Are you seriously comparing the ginormous Muslim community to the tiny Jewish and Amish ones? Now we’re going on a world tour to Africa – Kenya, Nigeria, Somalia and false equivalencies galore. With halal meat, cow dung and urine, and a threat to be banished from planet earth thrown in for good measure.

    And the stupid I Q value memorized , measured and told by the autistic moron father has no relevance to this argument

    What does this mean?

    This is hysterical.

  230. AltanBakshi, The Spirit of Enoch Powell, Bashibuzuk, catchastar, Vishnugupta 

    People complain of past muslim military invasion and violence but wholeheartedly support the religiously organized violence and invasion committed by the current Indian police ,state -nurtured vigilante and by Indian military .

    This is another sign of fanaticism .One doesn’t have to wear religious garb to express it or show colored dot on the forehead to exhibit it . This mismatched intellectual phenomena can co -exist with ability to suck up to the lofty descriptions of national nature of India by the west and to their self- serving proposals hurting India. .It can ,for them coexist — support for dismantling the country’s infrastructure ,selling of public properties and state run business to enrich the donor class, hiring goons, hiring false pseudo – academics to change the history and support for enriching the Hinduvatta offices while exhibiting patriotism by hatred and by carrying out violence against the Muslim .

    Some don’t know how to compare or see the illogicality of the thinking when they are supporting one but objecting to other within the same underlying premise se like the contention about the ghetto in the middle of the cities inhabited by different faiths

    Certain autistic remembers the number but nothing else and doesn’t understand anything .The number or the value is often told by someone . They might think they have super IQ without knowing what it means .

  231. RSS-BJP blames muslim for writing Manu Collection which relegated the indigenous to the permanent 4 th class citizenship. Tomorrow they will accuse Muslim for killing themselves just to malign Hindus and will assert Babri in 1992 and 15 mosques in Delhi in 2020 were destroyed by Muslim wearing saffron and singing Vande Matram . May be it will be called Muslim Purana .

    —
“In its renewed impetus to woo