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The Russian Donbass Is Here to Stay
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There’s renewed rumors of war in the Donbass. But I don’t think it’s happening for a multitude of different reasons:

Polls suggest that since around 2019 an outright majority of the LDNR wants direct union with Russia (<10% want independent, 12% want reintegration into Ukraine).

The region is increasingly integrated into Russia de facto. The official language is Russian. The currency is the ruble. LDNR residents have access to Sputnik V, while Ukrainians don’t.

Hundreds of thousands of LDNR residents now have Russian citizenship.

There will be public pressure for the Russian Army to protect them in the event of Ukrainian aggression. Putin will not even have much of a choice on the matter, too much has been invested to allow Ukraine to wrap it up in an Operation Storm.

The Russian Army is also now much closer than it was in 2014-15.

20th Combined Arms Army was recreated almost from scratch in the south covering the area from Nizhny Novgorod to Voronezh. Revived 10th Guards Tank Division (which was disbanded in 2009) became the core of new army with headquarters in the Boguchar. The regions of Kursk, Belgorod and Voronezh are actively saturated with troops, including the transfer of two motor rifle brigades, and later, probably, here would be formed another division.
Finally the creation of the 150th Motorized Rifle Division began in Novocherkassk of the Rostov region wich was devoid of combined arms units since 1989. There was unconfirmed information about the possibility of creating another army subordinated to the Southern Military District with the corresponding further strengthening of the local forces.
The meaning of all these activities is rather obvious. The border with Ukraine was totally undefended just three years earlier and now the Russian side have three major troop concentrations here which can, if necessary to launch a swift offensive in Kiev direction from the north (it is only 270 km from Russian border through Chernihiv) and create two strong “pincers” to achieve a strategic envelopment of the main group of the Ukrainian army on the left bank of Dnieper while Ukrainan army is already constrained by the self-proclaimed republics in the Donbass. Ukraine simply have no sufficient military forces (and no ability to create them in foreseable future) to parry these attacks or a resist a possible large-scale ‘deep operation’ by Russian forces. And this despite the fact that Russia still have significant reserves in the Southern Military District (in the form of two armies – the 49th and 58th) and in the Central and Eastern Military District (in which, according to available data, three new divisions would be created ). There is also an active rearmament of Air Forces and Air defenses in the regions to the south of Moscow.
Thus, the current Russian military planning and build up have little connection with the “threat from NATO” or “a threat to NATO” and basically subordinated to the main and fundamental security issue for today Moscow – Ukraine. After losing almost all levers of influence on Ukraine in 2014 bar most direct ones the Russian leadership is now forced to bet on them. Creating a powerful army group on the Ukrainian theatre will allow the Kremlin to extend the range of possible responses to Ukrainian situation.

The LDNR has explicitly declared themselves “Russian nation-states” in a way that even Russia itself cautions away from doing so (limiting itself to civ-nat platitudes revolving around “bearers of the Russian language”).

Here is a link to the full document of the doctrine of the Russian Donbass.

Here is how it begins:

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, millions of Russians found themselves outside their historical homeland, becoming citizens of artificially created state formations, hostages of anti-Russian political projects. These changes, controlled and implemented by external forces, tore apart the fabric of cultural and historical continuity that had been sewn for centuries and deformed a single system of values.

The presence of arbitrarily delineated boundaries between political formations that previously constituted a single state, ignoring the natural course of social development of Donbass and its economic ties, manipulating public consciousness, deliberate distortion of historical facts, the imposition of meaningless ideologies, utopian and antihuman programs by the Ukrainian government, the desire to destroy the very foundations of life and the cultural world of the inhabitants of Donbass naturally caused rejection and led to an armed uprising in 2014.

The people of Donbass are inextricably linked with the history of Russia and its historical part – Novorossiya – and the triune Russian people from the moment the Slavic population appeared on the territory of the region in the 5th – 7th centuries. before the creation and approval of the DPR and LPR in 2014.

The tragic events of recent years have actualized the problem of overcoming the geopolitical mistakes of the past, the need to rethink the development programs of our region. The people of Donbass, going through a difficult period in their history, made the final choice: their future is only with Russia. This choice is objective, historically reasoned, rational, uncontested.

The commonality of the historical fate of the people of Donbass is determined by their belonging to the Russian world – a unique phenomenon of world civilization. Ethnic, religious and linguistic diversity is characteristic of the vast majority of modern states. But their successful functioning is ensured by the presence of unifying values, ideals, beliefs, norms that are a consequence of the cultural and historical development of peoples, the basis of self-identification, the foundation of the worldview.

The richest Russian culture has a huge intellectual and moral potential, which has found embodiment in Orthodoxy, original and deep Russian philosophy, advanced science and technology, classical literature and original art. All this is not only an object of pride and respect, but also the property of world culture. Religion, philosophy, science, art form a worldview, which, in turn, orientates and motivates a person. The Russian people of Donbass also made their contribution to the legacy of the Russian civilization, due to external reasons they found themselves outside the borders of their Motherland – Russia.

Overcoming historical injustice is inevitable. The implementation of the Doctrine will activate the intellectual life of Donbass, which in imperial times was a key industrial region, and in Soviet times it was also an important educational, scientific and cultural center.

Donbass throughout its history has been an integral part of the Russian civilization. Returning to the Russian space will allow synthesizing traditional values ​​and innovations, rethinking the past through the prism of modernity with its challenges, problems, tasks; will give an opportunity to make realizable plans for the future.

Here is how it concludes:

Russia is the only historical state of the Russian nation. Its mission was and is to politically unite this nation. Any separation of certain parts of the Russian nation from Russia, any political formations that include Russians and are not Russia are exclusively temporary.

It was presented at a plenary meeting of Donbass activists and Russian nationalists in Donetsk, and I gather that occasional UR contributor Egor Kholmogorov had a hand in drafting it.

What is however most notable about it is this “Russian Donbass” meeting was attended by RT chief editor Margarita Simonyan, who demanded that “Russia take back Donbass.”

RT’s chief editor doesn’t randomly turn up to events like this. Well, she might, but I don’t think so. Probably it at least had Putin’s acquiescence if not active support.

Zelensky’s popularity might be falling, but as a centrist, he has to become a truly toxic figure for a challenger from either the Opposition Bloc (whose media organs he has been shutting down to plaudits from the State Department) or the nationalists to credibly threaten him. He doesn’t have a good reason to start a war and risk losing everything.

Nonetheless, I am not ruling it out completely. Svidomism is a brain virus that makes people do all kinds of irrational things. Perhaps the Ukrainians will look at the success of Turkish Bayraktar drones in the Karabakh War 2020 and feel that they could repeat it with Donbass, forgetting minor details that such as the Russian Air Force being able to wipe all these drones out of the sky in an afternoon.

In that case, the Ukraine could end up losing more than just the Donbass.

 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

  2. Time to finally see how well the Bayraktars perform against an integrated AA/EW system.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  3. In that case, the Ukraine could end up losing more than just the Donbass.

    An escalation can still be a win, in terms of how Western nations and mass media will spin such an occurrence. Also serves as a diversion to take away from Ukraine’s socioeconomic challenges, relative to Western assistance in dealing with such.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Mikhail

    Let me add that among that among svidos, there has been open talk about not really wanting the rebel held territories on account of knowing how the people there think.

    A failed attempt to get it back can serve to get the Kiev regime off the hook, while increasing the anti-Russian mood among Western elites.

  4. So how much of a mistake was it to not just annex all of Donbass together with Crimea?

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk, Hapalong Cassidy
    • Replies: @Gerard-Mandela
    @Shortsword

    Too expensive and impractical - even if morally justified. Even USA could not just take as their own a land of that size millions of people, human capital, resources in a short time and therefore the obligation to increase their prosperity as quickly as possible to the average Russian level... , with the hypothetical of the US receiving the type of sanctions co-ordinated with western states, that it gives to others.

    In a world with immediate western recognition of independent states/reunification in Russia and without sanctions and serious other consequences? Yes, entirely realistic they could do as in Crimea.

    Anyway why is obligation on Russia? Why not accuse the western scum of weakness for NATO being too scared to ever think of blocking-off Kaliningrad access by air or rail via other EU/NATO states?

  5. In the runoff election of 2010, Viktor Yanukovych won every oblast east of the Dnieper (including all of Crimea) by majorities ranging from over 60% to over 90%. Yulia Timoshenko won every oblast west of the river by similar margins. The Dnieper would appear to be the natural boundary of Russian Ukraine. Kiev would be included for historical reasons.

    • Replies: @Shortsword
    @bob sykes

    Not true. Yanukovych didn't win the northern regions east of Dnieper. But on the other hand he won the southern regions west of Dnieper.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Yanukovych_2010_2%28PR%29.png

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @AP, @YetAnotherAnon

    , @Not Only Wrathful
    @bob sykes

    The pro-Russian party got about 10% of the vote in the local election in Kiev this year. It obviously would not become a part of a Russian Ukraine.

  6. @bob sykes
    In the runoff election of 2010, Viktor Yanukovych won every oblast east of the Dnieper (including all of Crimea) by majorities ranging from over 60% to over 90%. Yulia Timoshenko won every oblast west of the river by similar margins. The Dnieper would appear to be the natural boundary of Russian Ukraine. Kiev would be included for historical reasons.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @Not Only Wrathful

    Not true. Yanukovych didn’t win the northern regions east of Dnieper. But on the other hand he won the southern regions west of Dnieper.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    @Shortsword

    Dnipro and Kherson were rather lukewarm in their support of Yanukovych.

    , @AP
    @Shortsword

    Correct. Also, Yanukovich was not running on a platform of annexation with Russia so his vote doesn't indicate that those regions want to unite with Russia.

    2014 showed which regions truly wanted to unite with Russia and which did not.

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Shortsword

    What's the most South-Western region, with 41.55% for Yanukovych? It's obviously different to its neighbours, in what sense?

    Replies: @Aslangeo, @Beckow

  7. Maybe it’s my dick talking, but I’ve always liked Margarita Simonyan.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    @Spisarevski

    It's your dick talking.

    , @Shortsword
    @Spisarevski

    What? She used to look acceptable but now she's 40 year old and chubby.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @Spisarevski

    I don't see how anyone might be inclined (or rather erected) towards Simonyan.

    https://img.gazeta.ru/files3/761/11630761/upload-TASS_25049914-pic905-895x505-80966.jpg

    Won't bang.

    Replies: @Spisarevski, @Anatoly Karlin, @reiner Tor

    , @AndrewR
    @Spisarevski

    Your dick is telling you to get your vision checked

    Replies: @AgBars

  8. There will not be outright invasion. Piece by piece will Ukraine military creep in. Terrorizing local population by shelling. Enough to have Western backing and not enough to Russia respond directly. Biden administration hate Russia emotionally. The understand that China is geopolitical problem for Empire. But they passionately hate Russia and Russian. Not my words. Theirs.

    • Agree: Aedib
    • Replies: @joniel
    @Demografie

    Is it the Catholic in Biden? I remember his racist tirades against Serbs in the 90s. Biden is a bad Catholic since he supports abortion.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    , @El Dato
    @Demografie

    Ah, the "hoodied hologram" strategy.


    Enough to have Western backing and not enough to Russia respond directly.
     
    Just take out the artillery and then no comment.

    Who's gonna care? So what if Bellingcat eats his underpants in anger?
  9. In that case, the Ukraine could end up losing more than just the Donbass.

    Just how far inside of Ukraine do you think that Russia would actually go in such a scenario, Anatoly? I would think that expanding up to the outskirts of Kharkiv, Dnipro, Zaporizhia, and Melitopol but without actually conquering any of these cities would be ideal. Then, Russia would offer to withdraw from the non-Donbass parts of these territories in exchange for permanently transforming these territories into a demilitarized zone.

  10. @Spisarevski
    Maybe it's my dick talking, but I've always liked Margarita Simonyan.

    https://twitter.com/M_Simonyan/status/1366256593222909958

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @Shortsword, @Bashibuzuk, @AndrewR

    It’s your dick talking.

  11. @Shortsword
    @bob sykes

    Not true. Yanukovych didn't win the northern regions east of Dnieper. But on the other hand he won the southern regions west of Dnieper.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Yanukovych_2010_2%28PR%29.png

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @AP, @YetAnotherAnon

    Dnipro and Kherson were rather lukewarm in their support of Yanukovych.

  12. Why wouldn’t Ukrainians (or their allies, dressed as Ukrainians) repeat the Russian “little green men” trick, except in reverse? All that concentration of mechanized power sounds impressive if you want to fight Hitler, but less so against an agile force.

    Cutting the power and water in the cities in would make them uninhabitable, at which point the Russians will self deport to Moscow.

    All you wrote there is very much last century’s war, and has nothing to do with the way Russia or America fights these days.

    • Replies: @By-tor
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Russia has already shown it will not allow the US and Ukraine's Jewish oligarchs to take back the DPR and LDR. Who do you think knocked out Ukraine's NATO-led artillery that was shelling civilians in those eastern regions in 2014 and 2015?

    Replies: @AP

    , @reiner Tor
    @Dacian Julien Soros


    All you wrote there is very much last century’s war, and has nothing to do with the way Russia or America fights these days.
     
    Russia fought the Donbass War with artillery and mechanized and armored formations. Actually that’s how Ukraine fought as well. You seem to think that actual organized civilized states are fighting each other the same way that Arabs fight guerrilla warfare against Americans, Russians or Arab governments, or Americans or Russians fight against Arab or Afghan guerrillas. Guerrilla warfare has been with us since organized states came around, but that’s rarely how organized states fight each other for obvious reasons.

    Why wouldn’t Ukrainians (or their allies, dressed as Ukrainians) repeat the Russian “little green men” trick, except in reverse?
     
    For three reasons. First, because they don’t have a large (brigade size or larger) elite force (including special forces, elite paratroopers, elite army units etc.) capable of such an operation. Second, because they don’t already have access to and legal rights to be in the area contested (as the Russians already had a huge military base in and the right of passage in Crimea). And third, because they are not facing a powerless government with a relatively small and untrained military force, rather a great power with one of the strongest militaries on the planet.
  13. @bob sykes
    In the runoff election of 2010, Viktor Yanukovych won every oblast east of the Dnieper (including all of Crimea) by majorities ranging from over 60% to over 90%. Yulia Timoshenko won every oblast west of the river by similar margins. The Dnieper would appear to be the natural boundary of Russian Ukraine. Kiev would be included for historical reasons.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @Not Only Wrathful

    The pro-Russian party got about 10% of the vote in the local election in Kiev this year. It obviously would not become a part of a Russian Ukraine.

  14. @Shortsword
    @bob sykes

    Not true. Yanukovych didn't win the northern regions east of Dnieper. But on the other hand he won the southern regions west of Dnieper.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Yanukovych_2010_2%28PR%29.png

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @AP, @YetAnotherAnon

    Correct. Also, Yanukovich was not running on a platform of annexation with Russia so his vote doesn’t indicate that those regions want to unite with Russia.

    2014 showed which regions truly wanted to unite with Russia and which did not.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    @AP

    I wonder if Kharkiv would have also fell to the separatists in 2014 had a Girkin-squad equivalent been sent there back then by Russia.

    Odessa I'm presuming was much less likely to fall even back in 2014 due to logistics, correct?

    Replies: @AP

  15. @Shortsword
    @bob sykes

    Not true. Yanukovych didn't win the northern regions east of Dnieper. But on the other hand he won the southern regions west of Dnieper.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Yanukovych_2010_2%28PR%29.png

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @AP, @YetAnotherAnon

    What’s the most South-Western region, with 41.55% for Yanukovych? It’s obviously different to its neighbours, in what sense?

    • Replies: @Aslangeo
    @YetAnotherAnon

    This is transcarpathia or ruthenia. They are a small area with an interesting history, having previously been part of Hungary, and Slovakia. The local people, the Rusyns speak a distinct language, which is related to but different from from Ukrainian and consider themselves to be a distinct ethnicity. They are not big fans of extreme Ukrainian nationalists who refuse to recognise their separateness. This area also has a small ethnic Hungarian minority. Hence the vote against the nationalists and the presence of a local autonomy movement ( so far thankfully peaceful)

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @YetAnotherAnon

    , @Beckow
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Subcarpathia, the land of the Rusins, formerly part of Czechoslovakia (and Habsburg Empire). The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.

    They don't like Kiev and they want to go West - an interesting and volatile combination. But it is a small region, not strategic. If Ukraine disintegrates, it would go its own way. Its value is in symbolism. It could trigger things.

    Replies: @AP

  16. @Spisarevski
    Maybe it's my dick talking, but I've always liked Margarita Simonyan.

    https://twitter.com/M_Simonyan/status/1366256593222909958

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @Shortsword, @Bashibuzuk, @AndrewR

    What? She used to look acceptable but now she’s 40 year old and chubby.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • LOL: AndrewR
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Shortsword

    Sad!

  17. @Spisarevski
    Maybe it's my dick talking, but I've always liked Margarita Simonyan.

    https://twitter.com/M_Simonyan/status/1366256593222909958

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @Shortsword, @Bashibuzuk, @AndrewR

    I don’t see how anyone might be inclined (or rather erected) towards Simonyan.

    Won’t bang.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
    @Bashibuzuk

    She was a cutie when she was younger

    https://i.imgur.com/4TeWjhc.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/Mf605pY.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/cKx5s1n.jpg

    and as a milf she is still okay
    https://i.imgur.com/hlvNhSJ.jpg

    and yes some photos are unflattering, including the one from Anatoly's post, but you know, age doesn't forgive women and secondly, plenty of good looking people have bad photos.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Chrisnonymous, @AltSerrice

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Bashibuzuk

    For all her issues, she is more of a Russian nationalist than you are.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @reiner Tor
    @Bashibuzuk

    She doesn’t look bad. Not really my type, but I’d bang her all right.

  18. If Ukraine attacks with Turkish assistance, then we might also expect complications in Syria and Nagorny Karabakh.

    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
    @Bashibuzuk

    What's the upside for Turkey?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  19. @Bashibuzuk
    @Spisarevski

    I don't see how anyone might be inclined (or rather erected) towards Simonyan.

    https://img.gazeta.ru/files3/761/11630761/upload-TASS_25049914-pic905-895x505-80966.jpg

    Won't bang.

    Replies: @Spisarevski, @Anatoly Karlin, @reiner Tor

    She was a cutie when she was younger

    and as a milf she is still okay

    and yes some photos are unflattering, including the one from Anatoly’s post, but you know, age doesn’t forgive women and secondly, plenty of good looking people have bad photos.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Spisarevski

    Nope. Won't bang, even if you pay me. Do not insist.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Spisarevski

    Your photos reveal what her issue is: cigarette smoking. It slowly robs everyone of their looks, creating excessive wrinkles, deepening age-related lines, and removing elasticity from skin.

    , @AltSerrice
    @Spisarevski

    She definitely used to be quite the cutie, but it seems smoking and overeating have robbed her of carrying those good looks into her middle age. Passable, but no longer exceptional.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  20. @Bashibuzuk
    @Spisarevski

    I don't see how anyone might be inclined (or rather erected) towards Simonyan.

    https://img.gazeta.ru/files3/761/11630761/upload-TASS_25049914-pic905-895x505-80966.jpg

    Won't bang.

    Replies: @Spisarevski, @Anatoly Karlin, @reiner Tor

    For all her issues, she is more of a Russian nationalist than you are.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Jedem das seine...

  21. The biggest risk is Quid Pro Joe. Ukraine bribed Hunter Biden (via Burisma) and The Big Guy got his 10%. In this case, Dementia winds up helping the situation. Bribing someone who cannot remember being bribed is not a viable technique.

    Biden’s accelerating mental collapse is so bad he cannot answer questions. (1)

    President Joe Biden addressed the House Democrats 2021 Issues Conference on Wednesday and, at the end of the virtual event, said that he would be happy to take questions from Democrats just before the White House bizarrely cut his feed.

    Biden has not held a formal press conference since he entered office six weeks ago on January 20. Instead, he has taken questions from reporters and has issued very limited, often scripted, responses.

    Biden really *has* become Ron Burgundy.

    Trying to predict what the current, illegitimate regime will do is almost impossible. Which faction has the upper hand changes quickly.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/03/04/wh-cuts-virtual-feed-after-biden-tells-nance-hes-happy-to-take-questions-from-dems-1037805/
     

    • Replies: @Aslangeo
    @A123

    You mean Joe Brezhnev

    Replies: @A123

    , @Max Payne
    @A123

    Biden is going to give me my Iran war. I can taste it.

    Replies: @A123

  22. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Shortsword

    What's the most South-Western region, with 41.55% for Yanukovych? It's obviously different to its neighbours, in what sense?

    Replies: @Aslangeo, @Beckow

    This is transcarpathia or ruthenia. They are a small area with an interesting history, having previously been part of Hungary, and Slovakia. The local people, the Rusyns speak a distinct language, which is related to but different from from Ukrainian and consider themselves to be a distinct ethnicity. They are not big fans of extreme Ukrainian nationalists who refuse to recognise their separateness. This area also has a small ethnic Hungarian minority. Hence the vote against the nationalists and the presence of a local autonomy movement ( so far thankfully peaceful)

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Aslangeo

    The characters in “The Deer Hunter” were supposed to be part of a community of Rusyn immigrant steel workers .

    Replies: @Mikhail

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Aslangeo

    What in the 1930s Brits called "Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia"?


    All of these Donald read carefully and reviewed carefully, resisting with stern determination the immoral advice of Mr. Harcourt on the subject of reviewing.

    "Read the publisher's jacket first," said Mr. Harcourt, preaching his scandalous gospel. "That will usually give you the author's name and some sort of idea of what the book is about. If the jacket says that the book is an illuminating, unique, sensational, thought-provoking exposé from within of the political situation in Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia, then the odds are about three to one that the book is about Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia. About once in four times they put the wrong cover on and you find that it's a book of short stories called Tikkity-Tonk, Old Fish! or a reprint of the Epistle to the Romans, but more often than not they get it right. Very well, then. You've got the subject. You then look at the index of chapters. That gives you the scope of the book, shows you whether it covers the religious question, or gives a list of the hotels, or has a bit about peasant costumes, or goes in for trade statistics, or touches upon the proportion of illegitimate to legitimate kids, or sketches the history of the place since Attila, and so on. By this time you've got the whole substance of the book and then all you've got to do is to read the last two paragraphs of the last chapter, to see whether the author thinks the Sub-Carpathian Ruthenians are good eggs or bad eggs, and there you are."

     

    https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/macdonellag-englandtheirengland/macdonellag-englandtheirengland-00-h.html
  23. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Shortsword

    What's the most South-Western region, with 41.55% for Yanukovych? It's obviously different to its neighbours, in what sense?

    Replies: @Aslangeo, @Beckow

    Subcarpathia, the land of the Rusins, formerly part of Czechoslovakia (and Habsburg Empire). The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.

    They don’t like Kiev and they want to go West – an interesting and volatile combination. But it is a small region, not strategic. If Ukraine disintegrates, it would go its own way. Its value is in symbolism. It could trigger things.

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    Subcarpathia, the land of the Rusins, formerly part of Czechoslovakia (and Habsburg Empire)
     
    Reality check: about 1% of the people there claim a separate Rusyn ethnicity.

    The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.
     
    The region experienced settlement by eastern Slavs from Galicia (hence their name Rusin) through the 14th century and part of the region was ruled from Lviv until 1320. Both Russophiles and Ukrainian nationalists arrived there after 1918. So there was little contact with the rest of Ukraine for about 600 years, not 1,000.

    Their speech is like the Galician dialect plus some Hungarian words. Their standardized language includes Church Slavonic that standardized Ukrainian does not (but Russian does) so in some ways it sounds like a weird combination of Galician dialect and Russian.

    It is true that these people are not nearly as nationalistic as the Galicians on the other side of the Carpathians. Rather, they are about as nationalistic as Ukrainians in oblasts like Zhytomir.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Beckow, @Mr. Hack

  24. @A123
    The biggest risk is Quid Pro Joe. Ukraine bribed Hunter Biden (via Burisma) and The Big Guy got his 10%. In this case, Dementia winds up helping the situation. Bribing someone who cannot remember being bribed is not a viable technique.

    Biden's accelerating mental collapse is so bad he cannot answer questions. (1)


    President Joe Biden addressed the House Democrats 2021 Issues Conference on Wednesday and, at the end of the virtual event, said that he would be happy to take questions from Democrats just before the White House bizarrely cut his feed.

    Biden has not held a formal press conference since he entered office six weeks ago on January 20. Instead, he has taken questions from reporters and has issued very limited, often scripted, responses.
     

    Biden really *has* become Ron Burgundy.

    Trying to predict what the current, illegitimate regime will do is almost impossible. Which faction has the upper hand changes quickly.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/03/04/wh-cuts-virtual-feed-after-biden-tells-nance-hes-happy-to-take-questions-from-dems-1037805/
     

    https://youtu.be/mBAmw4HnUlw?t=1

    Replies: @Aslangeo, @Max Payne

    You mean Joe Brezhnev

    • Replies: @A123
    @Aslangeo


    You mean Joe Brezhnev
     
    I meant Biden, not Brezhnev....

    However, you are far from the first person to notice the similarity between the two.

    https://spectator.us/topic/joe-biden-leonid-brezhnev-vibes/

    PEACE 😇
  25. @Spisarevski
    Maybe it's my dick talking, but I've always liked Margarita Simonyan.

    https://twitter.com/M_Simonyan/status/1366256593222909958

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @Shortsword, @Bashibuzuk, @AndrewR

    Your dick is telling you to get your vision checked

    • Replies: @AgBars
    @AndrewR

    At least he's got one, Sweetie.

  26. Russia still have significant reserves in the Southern Military District (in the form of two armies – the 49th and 58th) and in the Central and Eastern Military District (in which, according to available data, three new divisions would be created ).

  27. @Aslangeo
    @A123

    You mean Joe Brezhnev

    Replies: @A123

    You mean Joe Brezhnev

    I meant Biden, not Brezhnev….

    However, you are far from the first person to notice the similarity between the two.

    https://spectator.us/topic/joe-biden-leonid-brezhnev-vibes/

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
  28. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Bashibuzuk

    For all her issues, she is more of a Russian nationalist than you are.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Jedem das seine…

  29. @Spisarevski
    @Bashibuzuk

    She was a cutie when she was younger

    https://i.imgur.com/4TeWjhc.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/Mf605pY.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/cKx5s1n.jpg

    and as a milf she is still okay
    https://i.imgur.com/hlvNhSJ.jpg

    and yes some photos are unflattering, including the one from Anatoly's post, but you know, age doesn't forgive women and secondly, plenty of good looking people have bad photos.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Chrisnonymous, @AltSerrice

    Nope. Won’t bang, even if you pay me. Do not insist.

    • Agree: EldnahYm
    • Replies: @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    He is Bulgarian and she does look kind of Bulgarian.

    Replies: @4Dchessmaster, @Bashibuzuk

  30. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Subcarpathia, the land of the Rusins, formerly part of Czechoslovakia (and Habsburg Empire). The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.

    They don't like Kiev and they want to go West - an interesting and volatile combination. But it is a small region, not strategic. If Ukraine disintegrates, it would go its own way. Its value is in symbolism. It could trigger things.

    Replies: @AP

    Subcarpathia, the land of the Rusins, formerly part of Czechoslovakia (and Habsburg Empire)

    Reality check: about 1% of the people there claim a separate Rusyn ethnicity.

    The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.

    The region experienced settlement by eastern Slavs from Galicia (hence their name Rusin) through the 14th century and part of the region was ruled from Lviv until 1320. Both Russophiles and Ukrainian nationalists arrived there after 1918. So there was little contact with the rest of Ukraine for about 600 years, not 1,000.

    Their speech is like the Galician dialect plus some Hungarian words. Their standardized language includes Church Slavonic that standardized Ukrainian does not (but Russian does) so in some ways it sounds like a weird combination of Galician dialect and Russian.

    It is true that these people are not nearly as nationalistic as the Galicians on the other side of the Carpathians. Rather, they are about as nationalistic as Ukrainians in oblasts like Zhytomir.

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AP


    so in some ways it sounds like a weird combination of Galician dialect and Russian.
     
    Perhaps that's what ancient Rus dialect sounded like.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Beckow
    @AP

    Yes and no. Administratively it has been 1,000 years, whether any Galicians moved there in 14th century doesn't change that - people move all the time.

    How many Rusins are there? The official statistics are not very helpful - it is a regional identity that people have while also seeing themselves as part of a larger nation. I can confirm that among the thousands (tens of thousands now!) Subcarpathians who moved do Slovakia and Czechia the Rusin identity is dominant - almost all say they are "Rusins", or that they are 'pravoslavni Slovaks' (Orthodox). It helps with documents so I will not judge. There are also 15% Magyars there.

    You miss the point with the Zhitomir analogy: Zhitomir is deep in central Ukraine, it doesn't have the option of separating. Subcarpathia is literally over the hills from Ukraine, much more geographically and historically a part of Slovakia or Hungary. The joke by our hapless PM about exchanging Subcarpathia for Sputnik V was quite serious: he knows how many Rusins moved to Slovakia and what identity they claim. Ignore it at your peril. If Donbas goes, others could too. They want to be in 'EU'.

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela, @AP

    , @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Yeah, I think that Beckow is off his rocker on this one, and is thinking with his sovok heart, and not with his mind. There's absolutely no indication that anybody besides a few old sovoks (probably why he believes in such fairy tales), paid Russian provocaterus and a few Hungarian revanchists want to separate from Ukraine. Over 1,ooo,ooo citizens of this area are perfectly comfortable living within their Ukrainian identity. As far as the language used there is concerned, it's actually a lot like the development in neighboring Galicia and Bukovina (also lands of ancient "Rusyns"). The young and middle aged people all speak a language closest to the one spoken throughout the country, standardized Ukrainian. Nobody but the oldest of remaining babas and didos in Galicia speaks the Galician dialect anymore, the same in Zakarpattya too.

    Replies: @Old jew

  31. In that case, the Ukraine could end up losing more than just the Donbass.

    Unite Russia!

  32. @Bashibuzuk
    @Spisarevski

    Nope. Won't bang, even if you pay me. Do not insist.

    Replies: @AP

    He is Bulgarian and she does look kind of Bulgarian.

    • Replies: @4Dchessmaster
    @AP

    I remember meeting a Bulgarian guy a few years ago and telling him many of them looked like Gypsies and Arabs. He was seething with anger, LMAO.

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    Yes. Some Armenian girls have this phenotype of "Ancient European Farmer" populations that some Bulgarian and Romanian (Vlakh) women also have. Not my type, although when they are younger they might be attractive:

    https://i.pinimg.com/236x/07/47/87/074787043e5b43ed9c48e6849717b321--minoan-mycenaean.jpg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Cueilleuse_de_safran%2C_fresque%2C_Akrotiri%2C_Gr%C3%A8ce.jpg/220px-Cueilleuse_de_safran%2C_fresque%2C_Akrotiri%2C_Gr%C3%A8ce.jpg

    I am not a fan of mustachioed women.

    Speaking of female Russian pseudo-nationalists Natalya Poklonskaya is more my type.

    https://img.gazeta.ru/files3/867/12943867/upload-2020-02-03-03.00-pic4_zoom-1500x1500-25641.jpg

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  33. @Mikhail

    In that case, the Ukraine could end up losing more than just the Donbass.
     
    An escalation can still be a win, in terms of how Western nations and mass media will spin such an occurrence. Also serves as a diversion to take away from Ukraine's socioeconomic challenges, relative to Western assistance in dealing with such.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    Let me add that among that among svidos, there has been open talk about not really wanting the rebel held territories on account of knowing how the people there think.

    A failed attempt to get it back can serve to get the Kiev regime off the hook, while increasing the anti-Russian mood among Western elites.

  34. I don’t get the mentality of Russian-speaking Ukrainians. If they feel the primary loyalty to Russia, then it is almost certain that Donbass will, eventually, end up Russian.

    But I just don’t understand why do these people call themselves “Ukrainian” anymore.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Ukrainian identity is fairly recent by historical standards. It was not clearly defined before the end of the nineteenth century.

    Replies: @AP, @Bardon Kaldian

    , @Mikhail
    @Bardon Kaldian

    For some, being Ukrainian doesn't contradict being affiliated with Russia, while also identifying with Ukraine.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    , @Gerard-Mandela
    @Bardon Kaldian


    I don’t get the mentality of Russian-speaking Ukrainians.
     
    WTF? You mean by "not getting them" you do "get " the schizophrenic , loser, pseudo-rural inbred, failure mentality of Banderastan Ukrops, entirely artificially created by western countries , with its genesis entirely reflective of the poorest, dumbest, completely non"Ukrainian" part of the country that doesn't even generate enough people of relevance to even sufficiently carry on promoting this BS?

    Let's not forget that apart from the evil of the western apparatus, this problem started, or at least ignited exactly because this failed state can't run itself.......and looks even more to be unable to run itself to an even worse level.

    Look at today you ugly bastard - the fun, and the gestures , mentality of the men towards women, and the women of all age groups towards men in the two countries on Women's day will be absolutely IDENTICAL you dumbass - just like on everything else. The idea to anybody objectively watching that these are two separate cultures will clearly feel retarded.

    I suppose in your foolish mind the WTC went into the planes, not the reverse.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  35. @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    He is Bulgarian and she does look kind of Bulgarian.

    Replies: @4Dchessmaster, @Bashibuzuk

    I remember meeting a Bulgarian guy a few years ago and telling him many of them looked like Gypsies and Arabs. He was seething with anger, LMAO.

  36. @Spisarevski
    @Bashibuzuk

    She was a cutie when she was younger

    https://i.imgur.com/4TeWjhc.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/Mf605pY.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/cKx5s1n.jpg

    and as a milf she is still okay
    https://i.imgur.com/hlvNhSJ.jpg

    and yes some photos are unflattering, including the one from Anatoly's post, but you know, age doesn't forgive women and secondly, plenty of good looking people have bad photos.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Chrisnonymous, @AltSerrice

    Your photos reveal what her issue is: cigarette smoking. It slowly robs everyone of their looks, creating excessive wrinkles, deepening age-related lines, and removing elasticity from skin.

  37. @AP
    @Beckow


    Subcarpathia, the land of the Rusins, formerly part of Czechoslovakia (and Habsburg Empire)
     
    Reality check: about 1% of the people there claim a separate Rusyn ethnicity.

    The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.
     
    The region experienced settlement by eastern Slavs from Galicia (hence their name Rusin) through the 14th century and part of the region was ruled from Lviv until 1320. Both Russophiles and Ukrainian nationalists arrived there after 1918. So there was little contact with the rest of Ukraine for about 600 years, not 1,000.

    Their speech is like the Galician dialect plus some Hungarian words. Their standardized language includes Church Slavonic that standardized Ukrainian does not (but Russian does) so in some ways it sounds like a weird combination of Galician dialect and Russian.

    It is true that these people are not nearly as nationalistic as the Galicians on the other side of the Carpathians. Rather, they are about as nationalistic as Ukrainians in oblasts like Zhytomir.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Beckow, @Mr. Hack

    so in some ways it sounds like a weird combination of Galician dialect and Russian.

    Perhaps that’s what ancient Rus dialect sounded like.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    I doubt it, because the "Russian-ness" stems from Church Slavonic which, of course, was introduced with Christianity. When Russian became a standardized literary language a lot of Church Slavonic elements were included in it. Ukrainian in contrast was deliberately more focused on the "purest" speech of peasants, without any adornments from Church Slavonic, in the purest Ukrainian region - Poltava. This is purely my speculation, but I suspect that this was because Ukrainian was standardized a bit later, at a time when Romantics (the people involved in these nationalism/language standardization projects) were more focused on peasants and folk culture rather than on ancient medieval stories. So for example Volodymyr (Ukrainian version of this name) was Rus vernacular speech, while Vladimir was Church Slavonic.

    This does not make Ukrainian closer than Russian to ancient Rus speech though, because tons of Polish words filtered into the speech even of peasants in Poltava.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  38. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    He is Bulgarian and she does look kind of Bulgarian.

    Replies: @4Dchessmaster, @Bashibuzuk

    Yes. Some Armenian girls have this phenotype of “Ancient European Farmer” populations that some Bulgarian and Romanian (Vlakh) women also have. Not my type, although when they are younger they might be attractive:

    I am not a fan of mustachioed women.

    Speaking of female Russian pseudo-nationalists Natalya Poklonskaya is more my type.

    • Agree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Bashibuzuk

    Yes, she is the better looking MILF of the two, and by a significant margin, but that doesn’t mean that you should just write off Margarita. It’s better to have both in my hypothetical harem.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  39. @Demografie
    There will not be outright invasion. Piece by piece will Ukraine military creep in. Terrorizing local population by shelling. Enough to have Western backing and not enough to Russia respond directly. Biden administration hate Russia emotionally. The understand that China is geopolitical problem for Empire. But they passionately hate Russia and Russian. Not my words. Theirs.

    Replies: @joniel, @El Dato

    Is it the Catholic in Biden? I remember his racist tirades against Serbs in the 90s. Biden is a bad Catholic since he supports abortion.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @joniel

    Biden is about as Catholic as the Anti-Christ.

    Replies: @A123

  40. @Bardon Kaldian
    I don't get the mentality of Russian-speaking Ukrainians. If they feel the primary loyalty to Russia, then it is almost certain that Donbass will, eventually, end up Russian.

    But I just don't understand why do these people call themselves "Ukrainian" anymore.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Mikhail, @Gerard-Mandela

    Ukrainian identity is fairly recent by historical standards. It was not clearly defined before the end of the nineteenth century.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    The name, yes - but the ideology and cultural projects (began at the end of the 18th and early 19th century. The idea that Little Russia was the real Rus and was different from Great Russia (which was a bunch of Mongols), a Ukrainian nationalist trope, was articulated in the History of Rus written in the 1790s or 1800s and spread around by the Little Russian gentry in the Left Bank::

    http://izbornyk.org.ua/istrus/istrus02.htm

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Bashibuzuk

    One may argue about it (I'm not sure, but there was something like Ukrainian identity centuries ago), just- it doesn't matter. In the protectorate/country Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bosnian Muslims or Bosniaks are the product of Islamization, which has begun in the 15th C. But they did not have their name until 20th C. First, in 1971, they were allowed to call themselves Muslims in a national sense, not Croats or Serbs (the vast majority of them did not identify with those peoples); then, in 1993 (I think) they adopted the name "Bosniak".

    Be as it may, they are strongly, with very few exceptions, opposed to the surrounding Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins in their culture, identity, social, political, economic aims etc. As Camus had said, people become what they already have been, even without being conscious of that.

    In the case of Ukrainians, it is perfectly clear how this nation is defined. So, I don't understand why those Russophone "Ukrainians" say they are Ukrainians. They- if these data are correct- are Russians of Ukrainian ancestry.

    Replies: @AP, @awry

  41. The local postdocs from Kharkov and Nikolaev who I used to go drinking with before Covid will not like it if Kharkov remains in Ukraine if there is a large war with lots of territorial movement. They despise current Ukraine with a passion. I talked to the guy from Nikolaev two weeks ago and he still hates the ‘fascists’. If the US becomes distracted from the world due to some intense internal culture wars for a few years, it’s likely Ukraine will simply cease to exist a few months afterwards in a Balkanization scenario.

    • Replies: @AP
    @blatnoi

    Kharkiv was a divided city, but many of the hardcore Russian nationalists left for Donbas (just as Ukrainian nationalists from Donbas have moved to Ukraine). AK posted survey results from the various regions, showing most people in Kharkiv want to part of Ukraine and would oppose Russian annexation, but only a minority would actively take up arms and resist if the Russians came in. In contrast, in Donbas they would help the Russians.

    The Azov ultranationalists are based in Kharkiv. Their sponsor Avakov (Ukraine's interior minister) is from that city.

    Replies: @blatnoi

  42. AP says:
    @Bashibuzuk
    @AP


    so in some ways it sounds like a weird combination of Galician dialect and Russian.
     
    Perhaps that's what ancient Rus dialect sounded like.

    Replies: @AP

    I doubt it, because the “Russian-ness” stems from Church Slavonic which, of course, was introduced with Christianity. When Russian became a standardized literary language a lot of Church Slavonic elements were included in it. Ukrainian in contrast was deliberately more focused on the “purest” speech of peasants, without any adornments from Church Slavonic, in the purest Ukrainian region – Poltava. This is purely my speculation, but I suspect that this was because Ukrainian was standardized a bit later, at a time when Romantics (the people involved in these nationalism/language standardization projects) were more focused on peasants and folk culture rather than on ancient medieval stories. So for example Volodymyr (Ukrainian version of this name) was Rus vernacular speech, while Vladimir was Church Slavonic.

    This does not make Ukrainian closer than Russian to ancient Rus speech though, because tons of Polish words filtered into the speech even of peasants in Poltava.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    I have watched a video by a linguist specialized in the Slavic languages (forgot his name), according to him the Slavic language split in two major dialects (probably Antes and Sklavins) already by the end of the Roman era. After a series of migrations, ancient Rus territories were populated by groups speaking both dialects.

    The North-West was colonized by the those who probably spoke dialects related to Polabian Wends. As I already wrote Novgorod speech was probably related to the Wendish Balto-Slavonic. Kievan was possibly more related to the Polyane (Polish) Slavonic. There were also mixes and recombinations during the migration period, forming the Balkanic Slavonic (Old Bulgarian = Church Slavonic being one of its branches).

    These three dialects interacted and intermixed in the Rus lands for a thousand years. Especially when the populations supposedly migrated from the southern Rus principalities under the pressure from the Steppe nomad invasions and ran to the Zalesye and Vladimir-Suzdal (proto-Muscovy).

    Of course this is all theories. When archeology starts to get experimental results, some of them are quite unexpected and different from the established historical narrative.

    Just an example:

    http://ttolk.ru/articles/tainstvennaya_istoriya_goroda_staraya_ryazan

    In fact the more I read about all this, the more I come to the conclusion that Slavic history is "terra incognita" where we can somerimes find "there be dragons" written in very intriguing places. Since I was a kid, I believed the story of Ryazan valiantly resisting Batu Khan troops for 6 days, only to be destroyed by the mangonels, and Evpaty Kolovrat and his men using "partisan tactics" against the Mongol arrière-garde before being killed in battle and praised by the Khan himself for his bravery.

    It doesn't look that it was what really happened. Of course it was to be expected; the story is too heroic, the reality is always more prosaic.

    Anyway, the past is a foreign land.

  43. A large fraction of the Ukrainian population of the occuppied Donbass and Lughansk have been expelled through lack of access to employment and pensions. The occupied country area behind the cities in which the insurgents shelter was always majority Russian. The Ukrainians lived in the cities. The Russian less so. They live in the mining villages. The parts of the Donbass still in Ukraine were mostly Ukrainian in the countryside anyway. Russia would be mad to incorporate millions of resentful Ukrainians in a Novarossiya. There would be too many to expell without the ormation of major negative views on human rights issues. Any exodus of refugees would like expulsion anyway. Sanctions are justified. Putin could have stopped it.

  44. AP says:
    @Bashibuzuk
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Ukrainian identity is fairly recent by historical standards. It was not clearly defined before the end of the nineteenth century.

    Replies: @AP, @Bardon Kaldian

    The name, yes – but the ideology and cultural projects (began at the end of the 18th and early 19th century. The idea that Little Russia was the real Rus and was different from Great Russia (which was a bunch of Mongols), a Ukrainian nationalist trope, was articulated in the History of Rus written in the 1790s or 1800s and spread around by the Little Russian gentry in the Left Bank::

    http://izbornyk.org.ua/istrus/istrus02.htm

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    @AP

    What are your thoughts on Arnold Toynbee's views in regards to Ukraine and Russia? :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_J._Toynbee#Views_on_the_post-World_War_I_peace_settlement_and_geopolitical_situation

    Replies: @AP

  45. AP says:
    @blatnoi
    The local postdocs from Kharkov and Nikolaev who I used to go drinking with before Covid will not like it if Kharkov remains in Ukraine if there is a large war with lots of territorial movement. They despise current Ukraine with a passion. I talked to the guy from Nikolaev two weeks ago and he still hates the 'fascists'. If the US becomes distracted from the world due to some intense internal culture wars for a few years, it's likely Ukraine will simply cease to exist a few months afterwards in a Balkanization scenario.

    Replies: @AP

    Kharkiv was a divided city, but many of the hardcore Russian nationalists left for Donbas (just as Ukrainian nationalists from Donbas have moved to Ukraine). AK posted survey results from the various regions, showing most people in Kharkiv want to part of Ukraine and would oppose Russian annexation, but only a minority would actively take up arms and resist if the Russians came in. In contrast, in Donbas they would help the Russians.

    The Azov ultranationalists are based in Kharkiv. Their sponsor Avakov (Ukraine’s interior minister) is from that city.

    • Replies: @blatnoi
    @AP

    I wouldn't trust survey results if it's new. According to one of the postdocs from Kharkov who went there after his postdoc job finished and stayed a few months with his family in their old aparment (with wife and two kids) before going to a normal country again, people are scared and there is a lot of self-censorship and fear of strangers. This probably has to do something with what you say about the 'Azov ultranationalists being based there', and might be a reason for them 'being based there'.

    Anyways, the reason the crazies would want to start a war now is that it might be a last ditch effort to cancel Nordstream 2, since the sanctions are not working. If there are active battles being fought, the US could tell Germany to cancel it due to evil Russians attacking Ukraianians or something to that effect. I'm sure my favorite weekly (Die Zeit), which is read by Germany's political and business class, would do its role in faithfully backing that line.

    Replies: @AP

  46. @Bardon Kaldian
    I don't get the mentality of Russian-speaking Ukrainians. If they feel the primary loyalty to Russia, then it is almost certain that Donbass will, eventually, end up Russian.

    But I just don't understand why do these people call themselves "Ukrainian" anymore.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Mikhail, @Gerard-Mandela

    For some, being Ukrainian doesn’t contradict being affiliated with Russia, while also identifying with Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Mikhail

    How does this affiliation work? These Russophone "Ukrainians" have been a part of a country called Ukraine; they, from what I've heard, don't want to be a part of that country, but to secede & become a part of Russia.

    It is without precedence in any modern nation. I understand Russians living in these areas, they clearly are a separate people; but these "Ukrainians" are UINO. Their primary loyalty is not towards Ukraine.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  47. Zelensky’s popularity might be falling, but as a centrist, he has to become a truly toxic figure for a challenger from either the Opposition Bloc (whose media organs he has been shutting down to plaudits from the State Department) or the nationalists to credibly threaten him. He doesn’t have a good reason to start a war and risk losing everything.

    Keep in mind that Nuland is back, and bigger than before. She/the US State Dept is almost certainly directing what Zelensky can do or not do. It’s not that Zelensky simply closes down opposition media channels on his own accord and the US says “Great!” – it is at the least coordinated in advance with, if not actually directed by (which is almost certainly the case) the US State Dept. The increasingly aggressive steps Z is taking over the last few weeks – along with various other anti-Russian actions elsewhere – coincident with the settling in of new US admin is not random coincidence.

    So the question is more what Nuland would like to do. Clearly she doesn’t have any compunctions of fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian – the latter are just pawns on a chessboard to the US neocons. If Nuland figures a Ukrainian defeat will actually help promote more anti-Russian actions from the West, then Zelensky will be ordered to attack. If however it is felt that Ukrainians may revolt against such actions, then caution would be advised.

    To assess the likelihood of war then, a look at what Ukrainian Govt propaganda is generating would be useful since preceding any war, the populace must be made ready for it.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Ludwig


    To assess the likelihood of war then, a look at what Ukrainian Govt propaganda is generating would be useful since preceding any war, the populace must be made ready for it.

     

    As should Russia and the pro-Russian contingent in the former Ukrainian SSR.
    , @Ludwig
    @Ludwig

    This report http://thesaker.is/https-southfront-org-eastern-ukraine-on-brink-of-new-attempt-of-kiev-forces-offensive/ on increasing shelling of the contact lines by Ukrainian forces, the disappearance of heavy artillery from OSCE SMM monitored Ukrainian depots; coupled with the new aggressive stance being taken by US Big Tech in censoring Russian news/opinions/narratives - with info warriors like Ben Nimmo reporting for duty at Facebook - not to mention the backdrop of increasing sanctions; US govt announced cyber warfare; promotion of events to destabilize Russia from within, mean that Nuland has decided that she/neocons are in a win-win position in if they order Z to attack. In the off chance Z makes inroads, great - that will be a blow to Putin and cause disquiet in Russia. In the greater chance there is a Ukrainian defeat with overt Russian action, then also great. More sanctions etc against Russia casting it as the ultimate aggressor and further justifying more NATO build up.

    It is unclear whether Russia has any strategy against psychopaths like Nuland.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Beckow

  48. @Ludwig

    Zelensky’s popularity might be falling, but as a centrist, he has to become a truly toxic figure for a challenger from either the Opposition Bloc (whose media organs he has been shutting down to plaudits from the State Department) or the nationalists to credibly threaten him. He doesn’t have a good reason to start a war and risk losing everything.
     
    Keep in mind that Nuland is back, and bigger than before. She/the US State Dept is almost certainly directing what Zelensky can do or not do. It’s not that Zelensky simply closes down opposition media channels on his own accord and the US says “Great!” - it is at the least coordinated in advance with, if not actually directed by (which is almost certainly the case) the US State Dept. The increasingly aggressive steps Z is taking over the last few weeks - along with various other anti-Russian actions elsewhere - coincident with the settling in of new US admin is not random coincidence.

    So the question is more what Nuland would like to do. Clearly she doesn’t have any compunctions of fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian - the latter are just pawns on a chessboard to the US neocons. If Nuland figures a Ukrainian defeat will actually help promote more anti-Russian actions from the West, then Zelensky will be ordered to attack. If however it is felt that Ukrainians may revolt against such actions, then caution would be advised.

    To assess the likelihood of war then, a look at what Ukrainian Govt propaganda is generating would be useful since preceding any war, the populace must be made ready for it.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Ludwig

    To assess the likelihood of war then, a look at what Ukrainian Govt propaganda is generating would be useful since preceding any war, the populace must be made ready for it.

    As should Russia and the pro-Russian contingent in the former Ukrainian SSR.

  49. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    I doubt it, because the "Russian-ness" stems from Church Slavonic which, of course, was introduced with Christianity. When Russian became a standardized literary language a lot of Church Slavonic elements were included in it. Ukrainian in contrast was deliberately more focused on the "purest" speech of peasants, without any adornments from Church Slavonic, in the purest Ukrainian region - Poltava. This is purely my speculation, but I suspect that this was because Ukrainian was standardized a bit later, at a time when Romantics (the people involved in these nationalism/language standardization projects) were more focused on peasants and folk culture rather than on ancient medieval stories. So for example Volodymyr (Ukrainian version of this name) was Rus vernacular speech, while Vladimir was Church Slavonic.

    This does not make Ukrainian closer than Russian to ancient Rus speech though, because tons of Polish words filtered into the speech even of peasants in Poltava.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    I have watched a video by a linguist specialized in the Slavic languages (forgot his name), according to him the Slavic language split in two major dialects (probably Antes and Sklavins) already by the end of the Roman era. After a series of migrations, ancient Rus territories were populated by groups speaking both dialects.

    The North-West was colonized by the those who probably spoke dialects related to Polabian Wends. As I already wrote Novgorod speech was probably related to the Wendish Balto-Slavonic. Kievan was possibly more related to the Polyane (Polish) Slavonic. There were also mixes and recombinations during the migration period, forming the Balkanic Slavonic (Old Bulgarian = Church Slavonic being one of its branches).

    These three dialects interacted and intermixed in the Rus lands for a thousand years. Especially when the populations supposedly migrated from the southern Rus principalities under the pressure from the Steppe nomad invasions and ran to the Zalesye and Vladimir-Suzdal (proto-Muscovy).

    Of course this is all theories. When archeology starts to get experimental results, some of them are quite unexpected and different from the established historical narrative.

    [MORE]

    Just an example:

    http://ttolk.ru/articles/tainstvennaya_istoriya_goroda_staraya_ryazan

    In fact the more I read about all this, the more I come to the conclusion that Slavic history is “terra incognita” where we can somerimes find “there be dragons” written in very intriguing places. Since I was a kid, I believed the story of Ryazan valiantly resisting Batu Khan troops for 6 days, only to be destroyed by the mangonels, and Evpaty Kolovrat and his men using “partisan tactics” against the Mongol arrière-garde before being killed in battle and praised by the Khan himself for his bravery.

    It doesn’t look that it was what really happened. Of course it was to be expected; the story is too heroic, the reality is always more prosaic.

    Anyway, the past is a foreign land.

    • Thanks: AP, Blinky Bill
  50. @AP
    @Beckow


    Subcarpathia, the land of the Rusins, formerly part of Czechoslovakia (and Habsburg Empire)
     
    Reality check: about 1% of the people there claim a separate Rusyn ethnicity.

    The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.
     
    The region experienced settlement by eastern Slavs from Galicia (hence their name Rusin) through the 14th century and part of the region was ruled from Lviv until 1320. Both Russophiles and Ukrainian nationalists arrived there after 1918. So there was little contact with the rest of Ukraine for about 600 years, not 1,000.

    Their speech is like the Galician dialect plus some Hungarian words. Their standardized language includes Church Slavonic that standardized Ukrainian does not (but Russian does) so in some ways it sounds like a weird combination of Galician dialect and Russian.

    It is true that these people are not nearly as nationalistic as the Galicians on the other side of the Carpathians. Rather, they are about as nationalistic as Ukrainians in oblasts like Zhytomir.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Beckow, @Mr. Hack

    Yes and no. Administratively it has been 1,000 years, whether any Galicians moved there in 14th century doesn’t change that – people move all the time.

    How many Rusins are there? The official statistics are not very helpful – it is a regional identity that people have while also seeing themselves as part of a larger nation. I can confirm that among the thousands (tens of thousands now!) Subcarpathians who moved do Slovakia and Czechia the Rusin identity is dominant – almost all say they are “Rusins”, or that they are ‘pravoslavni Slovaks’ (Orthodox). It helps with documents so I will not judge. There are also 15% Magyars there.

    You miss the point with the Zhitomir analogy: Zhitomir is deep in central Ukraine, it doesn’t have the option of separating. Subcarpathia is literally over the hills from Ukraine, much more geographically and historically a part of Slovakia or Hungary. The joke by our hapless PM about exchanging Subcarpathia for Sputnik V was quite serious: he knows how many Rusins moved to Slovakia and what identity they claim. Ignore it at your peril. If Donbas goes, others could too. They want to be in ‘EU’.

    • Replies: @Gerard-Mandela
    @Beckow

    Oh cmon Beckow - you're a smart guy - you can't seriously take this fantasist nutjob AP's claims and "arguments" at face-level

    You're talking about an idiot who did not even know about the scandal of the Slovak PM and Zakarpattia until you just mentioned it now.

    Who every time when scrutinized on here about Russian/Ukrop language shows literally no knowledge of it at all - which in view of the trolls millions of comments on here is extremely disturbing.

    Who with absolute 1 million percent certainty has never gone to Zhitomir or spoken to anybody from it, or who has even gone through it - bit is so f**ked up to make demented statements on it.

    I would also recommend, when this wackjob can link it - to see this clowns post with video and claim of " Galician Ukrainian " culture - its as ridiculous as it is solid and disturbing proof of a fraud who is seriously disturbed

    Replies: @AP

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    Yes and no. Administratively it has been 1,000 years, whether any Galicians moved there in 14th century doesn’t change that – people move all the time.
     
    Northwestern part of Zakarpattia was part of the Galician Kingdom until 1320. So about 600 years administratively.

    But you said "The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.." Largescale settlement is a link.

    How many Rusins are there? The official statistics are not very helpful – it is a regional identity that people have while also seeing themselves as part of a larger nation
     
    Sure. About 1% of the Eastern Slavs there claim to be Rusyn, but not Ukrainians (~10,000 or so people declared this on the census). Probably a much larger number consider themselves to be a type of Ukrainian - a Rusyn.

    Ultranationalists did about as well in Transcarpatia as they did in Central Ukraine:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Svoboda-2012.png

    There are also 15% Magyars there.
     
    More like 10%

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

  51. @Aslangeo
    @YetAnotherAnon

    This is transcarpathia or ruthenia. They are a small area with an interesting history, having previously been part of Hungary, and Slovakia. The local people, the Rusyns speak a distinct language, which is related to but different from from Ukrainian and consider themselves to be a distinct ethnicity. They are not big fans of extreme Ukrainian nationalists who refuse to recognise their separateness. This area also has a small ethnic Hungarian minority. Hence the vote against the nationalists and the presence of a local autonomy movement ( so far thankfully peaceful)

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @YetAnotherAnon

    The characters in “The Deer Hunter” were supposed to be part of a community of Rusyn immigrant steel workers .

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Hapalong Cassidy


    The characters in “The Deer Hunter” were supposed to be part of a community of Rusyn immigrant steel workers .
     
    And in that movie, they referred to themselves as Russians.

    https://www.acrod.org/

    https://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Carpatho-Russian_Ohioans

    https://orthochristian.com/108811.html

    The wedding scene is the best part:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOGXl-ZoC14

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Hp2MW9AOQ

    SLAVA ROSSIYA!

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela

  52. @Bardon Kaldian
    I don't get the mentality of Russian-speaking Ukrainians. If they feel the primary loyalty to Russia, then it is almost certain that Donbass will, eventually, end up Russian.

    But I just don't understand why do these people call themselves "Ukrainian" anymore.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Mikhail, @Gerard-Mandela

    I don’t get the mentality of Russian-speaking Ukrainians.

    WTF? You mean by “not getting them” you do “get ” the schizophrenic , loser, pseudo-rural inbred, failure mentality of Banderastan Ukrops, entirely artificially created by western countries , with its genesis entirely reflective of the poorest, dumbest, completely non”Ukrainian” part of the country that doesn’t even generate enough people of relevance to even sufficiently carry on promoting this BS?

    Let’s not forget that apart from the evil of the western apparatus, this problem started, or at least ignited exactly because this failed state can’t run itself…….and looks even more to be unable to run itself to an even worse level.

    Look at today you ugly bastard – the fun, and the gestures , mentality of the men towards women, and the women of all age groups towards men in the two countries on Women’s day will be absolutely IDENTICAL you dumbass – just like on everything else. The idea to anybody objectively watching that these are two separate cultures will clearly feel retarded.

    I suppose in your foolish mind the WTC went into the planes, not the reverse.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Gerard-Mandela

    Cretin.

  53. @Bashibuzuk
    If Ukraine attacks with Turkish assistance, then we might also expect complications in Syria and Nagorny Karabakh.

    Replies: @Marshal Marlow

    What’s the upside for Turkey?

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Marshal Marlow

    1) Geopolitical : replacing Russia as the principal power broker in the post-Soviet space. Crimea restaured to the Turkish dominance realm. Black sea under reinforced Turkish influence.

    2) Economic: ensuring that the logistics developed under the OBOR in that part or Eurasia are firmly under Turkish control. Become the protector of the Ukrainian pipelines and get access to the Ukrainian fertile agricultural land.

    3) Symbolic and propagandistic: projecting Neo-Ottoman aura in the Islamic World. Payback time after centuries of humiliating defeats in the Russian-Ottoman wars. Demonstration of power projection to the Turkic Stans and the EU. Affirming its value as a NATO member.

    And there is nearly no downside for Turkey: Russia cannot attack Turkey directly if the Turks act under an official agreement with the Ukrainian government. This agreement would be fully legal and diplomatically sound. Just like Russia acting against the Syrian rebels in Syria under an agreement with the Syrian government.

    If Russia retaliates against Turkey, NATO would be able to use the collective security clause and move against Russia. That would be a major escalation, therefore Putin would probably avoid any harsh reaction against Erdogan.

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Majority of One

  54. @Beckow
    @AP

    Yes and no. Administratively it has been 1,000 years, whether any Galicians moved there in 14th century doesn't change that - people move all the time.

    How many Rusins are there? The official statistics are not very helpful - it is a regional identity that people have while also seeing themselves as part of a larger nation. I can confirm that among the thousands (tens of thousands now!) Subcarpathians who moved do Slovakia and Czechia the Rusin identity is dominant - almost all say they are "Rusins", or that they are 'pravoslavni Slovaks' (Orthodox). It helps with documents so I will not judge. There are also 15% Magyars there.

    You miss the point with the Zhitomir analogy: Zhitomir is deep in central Ukraine, it doesn't have the option of separating. Subcarpathia is literally over the hills from Ukraine, much more geographically and historically a part of Slovakia or Hungary. The joke by our hapless PM about exchanging Subcarpathia for Sputnik V was quite serious: he knows how many Rusins moved to Slovakia and what identity they claim. Ignore it at your peril. If Donbas goes, others could too. They want to be in 'EU'.

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela, @AP

    Oh cmon Beckow – you’re a smart guy – you can’t seriously take this fantasist nutjob AP’s claims and “arguments” at face-level

    You’re talking about an idiot who did not even know about the scandal of the Slovak PM and Zakarpattia until you just mentioned it now.

    Who every time when scrutinized on here about Russian/Ukrop language shows literally no knowledge of it at all – which in view of the trolls millions of comments on here is extremely disturbing.

    Who with absolute 1 million percent certainty has never gone to Zhitomir or spoken to anybody from it, or who has even gone through it – bit is so f**ked up to make demented statements on it.

    I would also recommend, when this wackjob can link it – to see this clowns post with video and claim of ” Galician Ukrainian ” culture – its as ridiculous as it is solid and disturbing proof of a fraud who is seriously disturbed

    • Replies: @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela

    Still obsessed by Ukrainian girls' dresses? You want one just as nice?

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela, @By-tor

  55. @Dacian Julien Soros
    Why wouldn't Ukrainians (or their allies, dressed as Ukrainians) repeat the Russian "little green men" trick, except in reverse? All that concentration of mechanized power sounds impressive if you want to fight Hitler, but less so against an agile force.

    Cutting the power and water in the cities in would make them uninhabitable, at which point the Russians will self deport to Moscow.

    All you wrote there is very much last century's war, and has nothing to do with the way Russia or America fights these days.

    Replies: @By-tor, @reiner Tor

    Russia has already shown it will not allow the US and Ukraine’s Jewish oligarchs to take back the DPR and LDR. Who do you think knocked out Ukraine’s NATO-led artillery that was shelling civilians in those eastern regions in 2014 and 2015?

    • Replies: @AP
    @By-tor


    Who do you think knocked out Ukraine’s NATO-led artillery shelling of civilians in those eastern regions in 2014 and 2015
     
    Ukraine had almost no military in 2014-2015.
  56. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP

    Yes and no. Administratively it has been 1,000 years, whether any Galicians moved there in 14th century doesn't change that - people move all the time.

    How many Rusins are there? The official statistics are not very helpful - it is a regional identity that people have while also seeing themselves as part of a larger nation. I can confirm that among the thousands (tens of thousands now!) Subcarpathians who moved do Slovakia and Czechia the Rusin identity is dominant - almost all say they are "Rusins", or that they are 'pravoslavni Slovaks' (Orthodox). It helps with documents so I will not judge. There are also 15% Magyars there.

    You miss the point with the Zhitomir analogy: Zhitomir is deep in central Ukraine, it doesn't have the option of separating. Subcarpathia is literally over the hills from Ukraine, much more geographically and historically a part of Slovakia or Hungary. The joke by our hapless PM about exchanging Subcarpathia for Sputnik V was quite serious: he knows how many Rusins moved to Slovakia and what identity they claim. Ignore it at your peril. If Donbas goes, others could too. They want to be in 'EU'.

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela, @AP

    Yes and no. Administratively it has been 1,000 years, whether any Galicians moved there in 14th century doesn’t change that – people move all the time.

    Northwestern part of Zakarpattia was part of the Galician Kingdom until 1320. So about 600 years administratively.

    But you said “The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years..” Largescale settlement is a link.

    How many Rusins are there? The official statistics are not very helpful – it is a regional identity that people have while also seeing themselves as part of a larger nation

    Sure. About 1% of the Eastern Slavs there claim to be Rusyn, but not Ukrainians (~10,000 or so people declared this on the census). Probably a much larger number consider themselves to be a type of Ukrainian – a Rusyn.

    Ultranationalists did about as well in Transcarpatia as they did in Central Ukraine:

    There are also 15% Magyars there.

    More like 10%

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @AP


    About 1% of the Eastern Slavs there claim to be Rusyn, but not Ukrainians
     
    When we visited my wife's relatives in Ukraine, they told me a joke on this point.

    During the invasion of Ukraine, a German officer catches three men running across the field.

    German, to the first man: What are you?

    First man: Russian.

    The German shoots him dead.

    German, to the second man: What are you?

    Second man, nervous: Ukrainian.

    German: You can live. For now...

    German, to the third man: And what are you?

    Third man: Rusyn.

    German: What in the devil is that?

    Rusyn: Like that khokhol there. But wild.
  57. @By-tor
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Russia has already shown it will not allow the US and Ukraine's Jewish oligarchs to take back the DPR and LDR. Who do you think knocked out Ukraine's NATO-led artillery that was shelling civilians in those eastern regions in 2014 and 2015?

    Replies: @AP

    Who do you think knocked out Ukraine’s NATO-led artillery shelling of civilians in those eastern regions in 2014 and 2015

    Ukraine had almost no military in 2014-2015.

  58. @Gerard-Mandela
    @Beckow

    Oh cmon Beckow - you're a smart guy - you can't seriously take this fantasist nutjob AP's claims and "arguments" at face-level

    You're talking about an idiot who did not even know about the scandal of the Slovak PM and Zakarpattia until you just mentioned it now.

    Who every time when scrutinized on here about Russian/Ukrop language shows literally no knowledge of it at all - which in view of the trolls millions of comments on here is extremely disturbing.

    Who with absolute 1 million percent certainty has never gone to Zhitomir or spoken to anybody from it, or who has even gone through it - bit is so f**ked up to make demented statements on it.

    I would also recommend, when this wackjob can link it - to see this clowns post with video and claim of " Galician Ukrainian " culture - its as ridiculous as it is solid and disturbing proof of a fraud who is seriously disturbed

    Replies: @AP

    Still obsessed by Ukrainian girls’ dresses? You want one just as nice?

    • Replies: @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    Still obsessed by Ukrainian girls’ dresses? You want one just as nice?
     
    LOL - plagiarising my accurate jokes about you into demented nonsense.

    Even retarded scum as yourself knows that if Karlin linked that video with that post as you did.....it would be the end of his career as a blogger. Like if he claimed to have fought in Chechen war but never actually did. A blogger, particularly one as prolific and successful as Karlin is going to make either errors or make some comment that exposes them to critiques over time , maybe even create hyperbole and exaggeration - what they can never do is the type of infamous " look at the western Ukrainian Galician culture here" BS that you did - outright lying followed by more ignorant lying precisely because you know f**k all, and dodgy wikipedia can't "save " you.

    Its just incredibly disturbing stuff.

    Anyway for the loser who has everybody post in memory and ready-to link from the last 6 years (L0L) - its amusing that you are of course too ashamed to repost your own fairly recent one ( if Karlin hasn't allowed you to delete it already). I see the infamous fake "cousin" electrician is being magically created

    This is before we get into the mir/svet freakshow and about a million other things on here (somebody mentioned on this thread about the Deer Hunter film - LOL, let's not even go there with a tramp like you LMAO)

    Replies: @AP

    , @By-tor
    @AP


    Ukraine had almost no military in 2014-2015.

     

    'Almost no military' is not the same as none at all. Whose tanks, heavy artillery, Grads and jets were striking Luhansk, Donetsk and small towns within those provinces? Mercenary battalions as Azov ( trained by the US ), Dniepr-1, Dniepr-2 and Tornado carried out terror raids against civilian structures in the contact line villages. The conscription drives by the Poroshenko gov't led thousands of young adult men and families to flee to Russia as well as the EU. Some 800,000 Ukrainians fled into Russia after the beginning of hostilities against the east by the US-backed Poroshenko regime.

    Replies: @AP

  59. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Marshal Marlow
    @Bashibuzuk

    What's the upside for Turkey?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    1) Geopolitical : replacing Russia as the principal power broker in the post-Soviet space. Crimea restaured to the Turkish dominance realm. Black sea under reinforced Turkish influence.

    2) Economic: ensuring that the logistics developed under the OBOR in that part or Eurasia are firmly under Turkish control. Become the protector of the Ukrainian pipelines and get access to the Ukrainian fertile agricultural land.

    3) Symbolic and propagandistic: projecting Neo-Ottoman aura in the Islamic World. Payback time after centuries of humiliating defeats in the Russian-Ottoman wars. Demonstration of power projection to the Turkic Stans and the EU. Affirming its value as a NATO member.

    And there is nearly no downside for Turkey: Russia cannot attack Turkey directly if the Turks act under an official agreement with the Ukrainian government. This agreement would be fully legal and diplomatically sound. Just like Russia acting against the Syrian rebels in Syria under an agreement with the Syrian government.

    If Russia retaliates against Turkey, NATO would be able to use the collective security clause and move against Russia. That would be a major escalation, therefore Putin would probably avoid any harsh reaction against Erdogan.

    • Replies: @Agathoklis
    @Bashibuzuk

    Perhaps the most hilarious post I have read in years. Turkey almost no capability for that sort of adventure. And there are many easy ways for Russia to retaliate against Turkey without attacking Turkish territory proper. They can hit them in Syria either through proxies or directly as it would not trigger article 5 or they can simply arm the Kurds.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @Majority of One
    @Bashibuzuk

    We must bear in mind that the Maidan/$oro$/Nuland Khazarian coup was and remains totally illegitimate and cannot be considered as representative of the best interests of the bulk of the Ukrainian people, perhaps 85% of whom are Orthodox, rather than Uniate-Catholic and the 2% or so who are Khazarian Talmudists.

  60. @Shortsword
    So how much of a mistake was it to not just annex all of Donbass together with Crimea?

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela

    Too expensive and impractical – even if morally justified. Even USA could not just take as their own a land of that size millions of people, human capital, resources in a short time and therefore the obligation to increase their prosperity as quickly as possible to the average Russian level… , with the hypothetical of the US receiving the type of sanctions co-ordinated with western states, that it gives to others.

    In a world with immediate western recognition of independent states/reunification in Russia and without sanctions and serious other consequences? Yes, entirely realistic they could do as in Crimea.

    Anyway why is obligation on Russia? Why not accuse the western scum of weakness for NATO being too scared to ever think of blocking-off Kaliningrad access by air or rail via other EU/NATO states?

  61. @AP
    @blatnoi

    Kharkiv was a divided city, but many of the hardcore Russian nationalists left for Donbas (just as Ukrainian nationalists from Donbas have moved to Ukraine). AK posted survey results from the various regions, showing most people in Kharkiv want to part of Ukraine and would oppose Russian annexation, but only a minority would actively take up arms and resist if the Russians came in. In contrast, in Donbas they would help the Russians.

    The Azov ultranationalists are based in Kharkiv. Their sponsor Avakov (Ukraine's interior minister) is from that city.

    Replies: @blatnoi

    I wouldn’t trust survey results if it’s new. According to one of the postdocs from Kharkov who went there after his postdoc job finished and stayed a few months with his family in their old aparment (with wife and two kids) before going to a normal country again, people are scared and there is a lot of self-censorship and fear of strangers. This probably has to do something with what you say about the ‘Azov ultranationalists being based there’, and might be a reason for them ‘being based there’.

    Anyways, the reason the crazies would want to start a war now is that it might be a last ditch effort to cancel Nordstream 2, since the sanctions are not working. If there are active battles being fought, the US could tell Germany to cancel it due to evil Russians attacking Ukraianians or something to that effect. I’m sure my favorite weekly (Die Zeit), which is read by Germany’s political and business class, would do its role in faithfully backing that line.

    • Agree: Aedib, Aedib
    • Replies: @AP
    @blatnoi


    I wouldn’t trust survey results if it’s new.
     
    Look to the 2012 elections, under Yanukovich. Pro-Western parties there won 30%of the vote, compared to only 10% in Donbas. Since pro-Western skews young this means about 50% of young Kharkivites were pro-Western (and 90% older people pro-Russian). Many of the pro-Russians from Kharkiv have fled to Donbas.

    This probably has to do something with what you say about the ‘Azov ultranationalists being based there’, and might be a reason for them ‘being based there’.
     
    They are not only based there, but from there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

    The Azov Battalion has its roots in a group of Ultras of FC Metalist Kharkiv named "Sect 82" (1982 is the year of the founding of the group).[21] "Sect 82" was (at least until September 2013) allied with FC Spartak Moscow Ultras.[21] Late February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian crisis when a separatist movement was active in Kharkiv, "Sect 82" occupied the Kharkiv Oblast regional administration building in Kharkiv and served as a local "self-defense"-force.[21] Soon, on the basis of "Sect 82" there was formed a volunteer militia called "Eastern Corps".[21]

    Their leader is a native of Kharkiv:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Biletsky_(politician)

    His maternal background is interesting:

    Born in 1979 in Kharkiv, Soviet Union, Biletsky's father Yevhen Mykhailovych Biletsky hailed from an old Cossack family that founded the village of Krasnopavlivka (Lozova Raion), while Biletsky's mother Olena Anatolivna Biletsky (née Lukashevych) descended from a noble family from Zhytomyr region, to which belong the Decembrist Vasiliy Lukashevich (Vasyl Lukashevych) who founded the "Little-Russian Secret Society".

    In his youth, Biletsky practiced several types of martial arts and boxing. In 1990 he refused to be accepted into the Vladimir Lenin All-Union Pioneer Organization. Biletsky, along with senior schoolmates, raised the Ukrainian flag over his school.[17] His major patriotic influence in his youth was his father's gift of a book prohibited in the Soviet Union, History of Ukraine for children by Anton Lototsky.[17] In 2001, Biletsky graduated with honors from the History faculty of the University of Kharkiv. His thesis was about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.[5] The same year Biletsky participated in the Ukraine without Kuchma (UBK) protests, for which he was placed under administrative arrest. The Security Service of Ukraine pressured university administration to expel Biletsky from the institution.

    In 2002 Biletsky became a leader of the Kharkiv branch of the political organization Tryzub, and in 2003 cooperated with the Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU) opposing the idea of its transformation into Svoboda.[5

    Replies: @blatnoi, @Insomniac Resurrected, @The Big Red Scary

  62. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Aslangeo

    The characters in “The Deer Hunter” were supposed to be part of a community of Rusyn immigrant steel workers .

    Replies: @Mikhail

    The characters in “The Deer Hunter” were supposed to be part of a community of Rusyn immigrant steel workers .

    And in that movie, they referred to themselves as Russians.

    https://www.acrod.org/

    https://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Carpatho-Russian_Ohioans

    https://orthochristian.com/108811.html

    The wedding scene is the best part:


    SLAVA ROSSIYA!

    • Replies: @Gerard-Mandela
    @Mikhail

    That well known Ukrainian nationalist "anthem" Katyusha!
    The "Ukrainian" that sounds suspiciously like 100% Russian!

    Can the fantasist nutjob AP link his previous comment on this film - I would welcome the comedy

  63. the Ukraine could end up losing more than just the Donbass.

    I certainly hope that this will NOT involve Russian “tourist” troops storming Ukrainian positions along the contact line with no air support. Ukrainians had 6 years to dig in Donbass, so the casualties will be huge.

    We need to open a new front at Kharkov and then push South towards the sea, but I fear that Kremlin will stick to WW1 style warfare to preserve its narrative of an internal Ukrainian conflict.

  64. @AP
    @Shortsword

    Correct. Also, Yanukovich was not running on a platform of annexation with Russia so his vote doesn't indicate that those regions want to unite with Russia.

    2014 showed which regions truly wanted to unite with Russia and which did not.

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ

    I wonder if Kharkiv would have also fell to the separatists in 2014 had a Girkin-squad equivalent been sent there back then by Russia.

    Odessa I’m presuming was much less likely to fall even back in 2014 due to logistics, correct?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. XYZ


    I wonder if Kharkiv would have also fell to the separatists in 2014 had a Girkin-squad equivalent been sent there back then by Russia.
     
    Doubtful (see my other post).
  65. @AP
    @Beckow


    Yes and no. Administratively it has been 1,000 years, whether any Galicians moved there in 14th century doesn’t change that – people move all the time.
     
    Northwestern part of Zakarpattia was part of the Galician Kingdom until 1320. So about 600 years administratively.

    But you said "The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.." Largescale settlement is a link.

    How many Rusins are there? The official statistics are not very helpful – it is a regional identity that people have while also seeing themselves as part of a larger nation
     
    Sure. About 1% of the Eastern Slavs there claim to be Rusyn, but not Ukrainians (~10,000 or so people declared this on the census). Probably a much larger number consider themselves to be a type of Ukrainian - a Rusyn.

    Ultranationalists did about as well in Transcarpatia as they did in Central Ukraine:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Svoboda-2012.png

    There are also 15% Magyars there.
     
    More like 10%

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    About 1% of the Eastern Slavs there claim to be Rusyn, but not Ukrainians

    When we visited my wife’s relatives in Ukraine, they told me a joke on this point.

    During the invasion of Ukraine, a German officer catches three men running across the field.

    German, to the first man: What are you?

    First man: Russian.

    The German shoots him dead.

    German, to the second man: What are you?

    Second man, nervous: Ukrainian.

    German: You can live. For now…

    German, to the third man: And what are you?

    Third man: Rusyn.

    German: What in the devil is that?

    Rusyn: Like that khokhol there. But wild.

    • LOL: Blinky Bill
  66. @Dacian Julien Soros
    Why wouldn't Ukrainians (or their allies, dressed as Ukrainians) repeat the Russian "little green men" trick, except in reverse? All that concentration of mechanized power sounds impressive if you want to fight Hitler, but less so against an agile force.

    Cutting the power and water in the cities in would make them uninhabitable, at which point the Russians will self deport to Moscow.

    All you wrote there is very much last century's war, and has nothing to do with the way Russia or America fights these days.

    Replies: @By-tor, @reiner Tor

    All you wrote there is very much last century’s war, and has nothing to do with the way Russia or America fights these days.

    Russia fought the Donbass War with artillery and mechanized and armored formations. Actually that’s how Ukraine fought as well. You seem to think that actual organized civilized states are fighting each other the same way that Arabs fight guerrilla warfare against Americans, Russians or Arab governments, or Americans or Russians fight against Arab or Afghan guerrillas. Guerrilla warfare has been with us since organized states came around, but that’s rarely how organized states fight each other for obvious reasons.

    Why wouldn’t Ukrainians (or their allies, dressed as Ukrainians) repeat the Russian “little green men” trick, except in reverse?

    For three reasons. First, because they don’t have a large (brigade size or larger) elite force (including special forces, elite paratroopers, elite army units etc.) capable of such an operation. Second, because they don’t already have access to and legal rights to be in the area contested (as the Russians already had a huge military base in and the right of passage in Crimea). And third, because they are not facing a powerless government with a relatively small and untrained military force, rather a great power with one of the strongest militaries on the planet.

  67. @Gerard-Mandela
    @Bardon Kaldian


    I don’t get the mentality of Russian-speaking Ukrainians.
     
    WTF? You mean by "not getting them" you do "get " the schizophrenic , loser, pseudo-rural inbred, failure mentality of Banderastan Ukrops, entirely artificially created by western countries , with its genesis entirely reflective of the poorest, dumbest, completely non"Ukrainian" part of the country that doesn't even generate enough people of relevance to even sufficiently carry on promoting this BS?

    Let's not forget that apart from the evil of the western apparatus, this problem started, or at least ignited exactly because this failed state can't run itself.......and looks even more to be unable to run itself to an even worse level.

    Look at today you ugly bastard - the fun, and the gestures , mentality of the men towards women, and the women of all age groups towards men in the two countries on Women's day will be absolutely IDENTICAL you dumbass - just like on everything else. The idea to anybody objectively watching that these are two separate cultures will clearly feel retarded.

    I suppose in your foolish mind the WTC went into the planes, not the reverse.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Cretin.

  68. @Bashibuzuk
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Ukrainian identity is fairly recent by historical standards. It was not clearly defined before the end of the nineteenth century.

    Replies: @AP, @Bardon Kaldian

    One may argue about it (I’m not sure, but there was something like Ukrainian identity centuries ago), just- it doesn’t matter. In the protectorate/country Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bosnian Muslims or Bosniaks are the product of Islamization, which has begun in the 15th C. But they did not have their name until 20th C. First, in 1971, they were allowed to call themselves Muslims in a national sense, not Croats or Serbs (the vast majority of them did not identify with those peoples); then, in 1993 (I think) they adopted the name “Bosniak”.

    Be as it may, they are strongly, with very few exceptions, opposed to the surrounding Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins in their culture, identity, social, political, economic aims etc. As Camus had said, people become what they already have been, even without being conscious of that.

    In the case of Ukrainians, it is perfectly clear how this nation is defined. So, I don’t understand why those Russophone “Ukrainians” say they are Ukrainians. They- if these data are correct- are Russians of Ukrainian ancestry.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @AP
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Correct. For all intents and purposes they are Russians of Ukrainian descent, but may self-identify as Ukrainians because they believe that Ukrainians are a type of Russian anyways, which is what Russian nationalists think.

    I can’t think of an analogue. Hypothetically - after decades of German occupation, German-speaking Netherlanders calling themselves Netherlanders -a type of German - with primary loyalty to Germany, and bitterly opposed to anti-German Netherlandic nationalists?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    , @awry
    @Bardon Kaldian


    One may argue about it (I’m not sure, but there was something like Ukrainian identity centuries ago), just- it doesn’t matter. In the protectorate/country Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bosnian Muslims or Bosniaks are the product of Islamization, which has begun in the 15th C. But they did not have their name until 20th C. First, in 1971, they were allowed to call themselves Muslims in a national sense, not Croats or Serbs (the vast majority of them did not identify with those peoples); then, in 1993 (I think) they adopted the name “Bosniak”.
     
    I'm pretty sure that "Bosniak" has been used as the name for Bosnian muslims for a long time then, it was already used at least as an exonym during the Austro-Hungarian annexation of Bosnia (in Hungarian it is "bosnyák", it is also used for a group of Catholic Croats of Baranya called "Bosnian Croats", "Catholic Bosnians" or "Baranja Bosniaks", so it wasn't meaning a Muslim originally).
    In the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy "Bosnjak" was officially used to any inhabitant of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
  69. @Spisarevski
    @Bashibuzuk

    She was a cutie when she was younger

    https://i.imgur.com/4TeWjhc.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/Mf605pY.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/cKx5s1n.jpg

    and as a milf she is still okay
    https://i.imgur.com/hlvNhSJ.jpg

    and yes some photos are unflattering, including the one from Anatoly's post, but you know, age doesn't forgive women and secondly, plenty of good looking people have bad photos.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Chrisnonymous, @AltSerrice

    She definitely used to be quite the cutie, but it seems smoking and overeating have robbed her of carrying those good looks into her middle age. Passable, but no longer exceptional.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @AltSerrice

    Guys, this is a very important topic, so please treat it accordingly.

    If you didn’t have a girlfriend nor any religious command forbidding it and you had a free afternoon, and she was inclined to it, would you bang her or your right hand? The right hand is the wrong answer, so choose your answer carefully.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  70. @Mikhail
    @Bardon Kaldian

    For some, being Ukrainian doesn't contradict being affiliated with Russia, while also identifying with Ukraine.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    How does this affiliation work? These Russophone “Ukrainians” have been a part of a country called Ukraine; they, from what I’ve heard, don’t want to be a part of that country, but to secede & become a part of Russia.

    It is without precedence in any modern nation. I understand Russians living in these areas, they clearly are a separate people; but these “Ukrainians” are UINO. Their primary loyalty is not towards Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Numerous people identifying with Ukraine and Russia. Related:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/22052011-pavlo-skoropadsky-and-the-course-of-russian-ukrainian-relations-analysis/

  71. @Ludwig

    Zelensky’s popularity might be falling, but as a centrist, he has to become a truly toxic figure for a challenger from either the Opposition Bloc (whose media organs he has been shutting down to plaudits from the State Department) or the nationalists to credibly threaten him. He doesn’t have a good reason to start a war and risk losing everything.
     
    Keep in mind that Nuland is back, and bigger than before. She/the US State Dept is almost certainly directing what Zelensky can do or not do. It’s not that Zelensky simply closes down opposition media channels on his own accord and the US says “Great!” - it is at the least coordinated in advance with, if not actually directed by (which is almost certainly the case) the US State Dept. The increasingly aggressive steps Z is taking over the last few weeks - along with various other anti-Russian actions elsewhere - coincident with the settling in of new US admin is not random coincidence.

    So the question is more what Nuland would like to do. Clearly she doesn’t have any compunctions of fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian - the latter are just pawns on a chessboard to the US neocons. If Nuland figures a Ukrainian defeat will actually help promote more anti-Russian actions from the West, then Zelensky will be ordered to attack. If however it is felt that Ukrainians may revolt against such actions, then caution would be advised.

    To assess the likelihood of war then, a look at what Ukrainian Govt propaganda is generating would be useful since preceding any war, the populace must be made ready for it.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Ludwig

    This report http://thesaker.is/https-southfront-org-eastern-ukraine-on-brink-of-new-attempt-of-kiev-forces-offensive/ on increasing shelling of the contact lines by Ukrainian forces, the disappearance of heavy artillery from OSCE SMM monitored Ukrainian depots; coupled with the new aggressive stance being taken by US Big Tech in censoring Russian news/opinions/narratives – with info warriors like Ben Nimmo reporting for duty at Facebook – not to mention the backdrop of increasing sanctions; US govt announced cyber warfare; promotion of events to destabilize Russia from within, mean that Nuland has decided that she/neocons are in a win-win position in if they order Z to attack. In the off chance Z makes inroads, great – that will be a blow to Putin and cause disquiet in Russia. In the greater chance there is a Ukrainian defeat with overt Russian action, then also great. More sanctions etc against Russia casting it as the ultimate aggressor and further justifying more NATO build up.

    It is unclear whether Russia has any strategy against psychopaths like Nuland.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Ludwig


    It is unclear whether Russia has any strategy against psychopaths like Nuland.
     
    Putin's Russia has no strategy against neocons, otherwise the Maidan wouldn't have taken the power in Ukraine. Putin is not ruthless enough. As I wrote repeatedly in my previous comments, Putin should retire and be replaced with a younger and more energetic and ruthless leader. But I suspect they have nobody of that type.

    Russian elites resist the West only half-heartedly because they are craving inclusion into the Western elite. They would like being accepted as equals and treated like "partners" by the West. Their children are sent to study there and their moneys are moved to the Western banks at every occasion.

    , @Beckow
    @Ludwig

    There is a third possibility: Kiev throws what they have against Donbass and doesn't make any progress: more dead and status quo. Kremlin seems to prefer that. This is likely because of lack of motivation to die on both sides. They will do what is easy.

    In case I am wrong (it happens), both your options will result in more massive sanctions. Any fighting will trigger it, that's why neo-cons want fighting. They don't give a sh..t who owns what muddy field in Ukraine and see both sides as disposable people - actually would prefer most of them dead.

    Russia has no way to influence the narrative and their best option is to preventively sanction themselves and the Western partners who are still interested in trade with Russia. A jiu-jitsu defense, I thought Putin understood how that works, but his oligarch friends hate it.

    Ukraine's best option is to accept Minsk and give Donbass autonomy. Then time would solve everything and Ukraine would stay united and eventually make up.

    The problem is that Washington doesn't care one bit for federated (or not) Ukraine. Originally they wanted Crimea and to eventually move Nato bases there (it's an excellent location). They lost and moved on to using Ukraine as a battering ram against Russia - move mayhem the better. Europeans are not an independent player so it doesn't matter what they think as Nuland told them.

    Those are the stakes, but my assumption is that people are rational and that is often a foolish assumption. It is now all about emotions and that's how a lot of people always end up dead.

  72. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Ludwig
    @Ludwig

    This report http://thesaker.is/https-southfront-org-eastern-ukraine-on-brink-of-new-attempt-of-kiev-forces-offensive/ on increasing shelling of the contact lines by Ukrainian forces, the disappearance of heavy artillery from OSCE SMM monitored Ukrainian depots; coupled with the new aggressive stance being taken by US Big Tech in censoring Russian news/opinions/narratives - with info warriors like Ben Nimmo reporting for duty at Facebook - not to mention the backdrop of increasing sanctions; US govt announced cyber warfare; promotion of events to destabilize Russia from within, mean that Nuland has decided that she/neocons are in a win-win position in if they order Z to attack. In the off chance Z makes inroads, great - that will be a blow to Putin and cause disquiet in Russia. In the greater chance there is a Ukrainian defeat with overt Russian action, then also great. More sanctions etc against Russia casting it as the ultimate aggressor and further justifying more NATO build up.

    It is unclear whether Russia has any strategy against psychopaths like Nuland.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Beckow

    It is unclear whether Russia has any strategy against psychopaths like Nuland.

    Putin’s Russia has no strategy against neocons, otherwise the Maidan wouldn’t have taken the power in Ukraine. Putin is not ruthless enough. As I wrote repeatedly in my previous comments, Putin should retire and be replaced with a younger and more energetic and ruthless leader. But I suspect they have nobody of that type.

    Russian elites resist the West only half-heartedly because they are craving inclusion into the Western elite. They would like being accepted as equals and treated like “partners” by the West. Their children are sent to study there and their moneys are moved to the Western banks at every occasion.

  73. @Shortsword
    @Spisarevski

    What? She used to look acceptable but now she's 40 year old and chubby.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Sad!

  74. @Bashibuzuk
    @Spisarevski

    I don't see how anyone might be inclined (or rather erected) towards Simonyan.

    https://img.gazeta.ru/files3/761/11630761/upload-TASS_25049914-pic905-895x505-80966.jpg

    Won't bang.

    Replies: @Spisarevski, @Anatoly Karlin, @reiner Tor

    She doesn’t look bad. Not really my type, but I’d bang her all right.

    • Disagree: Kent Nationalist
  75. @AltSerrice
    @Spisarevski

    She definitely used to be quite the cutie, but it seems smoking and overeating have robbed her of carrying those good looks into her middle age. Passable, but no longer exceptional.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Guys, this is a very important topic, so please treat it accordingly.

    If you didn’t have a girlfriend nor any religious command forbidding it and you had a free afternoon, and she was inclined to it, would you bang her or your right hand? The right hand is the wrong answer, so choose your answer carefully.

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @reiner Tor

    https://mediananny.com/content/images_new/news/620x408/129583.jpg

    Perhaps after a nuclear war...

    🙂

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Kent Nationalist

  76. Bashibuzuk says:

    https://www.overtdefense.com/2021/01/22/kaliningrad-gambit-nato-preemptive-strike-scenario/

    A Polish general described his vision of a Russian-NATO war in the Baltic region centered around Kaliningrad. Of note is the Cyrillic denomination he used for Kaliningrad: Королевец. First time I see it used by anyone, but it makes sense to rename Kaliningrad after NATO/Polish occupation, while avoiding any reference to the Eastern Prussia’s historical German identity.

  77. @Bashibuzuk
    @Marshal Marlow

    1) Geopolitical : replacing Russia as the principal power broker in the post-Soviet space. Crimea restaured to the Turkish dominance realm. Black sea under reinforced Turkish influence.

    2) Economic: ensuring that the logistics developed under the OBOR in that part or Eurasia are firmly under Turkish control. Become the protector of the Ukrainian pipelines and get access to the Ukrainian fertile agricultural land.

    3) Symbolic and propagandistic: projecting Neo-Ottoman aura in the Islamic World. Payback time after centuries of humiliating defeats in the Russian-Ottoman wars. Demonstration of power projection to the Turkic Stans and the EU. Affirming its value as a NATO member.

    And there is nearly no downside for Turkey: Russia cannot attack Turkey directly if the Turks act under an official agreement with the Ukrainian government. This agreement would be fully legal and diplomatically sound. Just like Russia acting against the Syrian rebels in Syria under an agreement with the Syrian government.

    If Russia retaliates against Turkey, NATO would be able to use the collective security clause and move against Russia. That would be a major escalation, therefore Putin would probably avoid any harsh reaction against Erdogan.

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Majority of One

    Perhaps the most hilarious post I have read in years. Turkey almost no capability for that sort of adventure. And there are many easy ways for Russia to retaliate against Turkey without attacking Turkish territory proper. They can hit them in Syria either through proxies or directly as it would not trigger article 5 or they can simply arm the Kurds.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Agathoklis

    Discussing Turkey with a Greek is a waste of my time. You just cannot be unbiased when it comes to Turks. Therefore, you go here, read and think for yourself:

    https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing-nato-members.php

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/aZrTbBpAwH5WsDDOs-z2OQZyhbLiKEOeGAPHPw-V7csJNUuywWdtWvGV4sfEGMWJ8LjIHHY665td4v38ED-Nar7a

    https://www.oboreurope.com/en/category/news/middle-east/turkey/

    Sorry for the pain, but it is to avoid you any future disappointment.

    🙂

  78. @reiner Tor
    @AltSerrice

    Guys, this is a very important topic, so please treat it accordingly.

    If you didn’t have a girlfriend nor any religious command forbidding it and you had a free afternoon, and she was inclined to it, would you bang her or your right hand? The right hand is the wrong answer, so choose your answer carefully.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Perhaps after a nuclear war…

    🙂

    • LOL: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @Bashibuzuk

    Твоя мама пришла, молочка принесла.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @Kent Nationalist
    @Bashibuzuk

    That looks like a still from a 70s British sitcom

  79. AP says:
    @blatnoi
    @AP

    I wouldn't trust survey results if it's new. According to one of the postdocs from Kharkov who went there after his postdoc job finished and stayed a few months with his family in their old aparment (with wife and two kids) before going to a normal country again, people are scared and there is a lot of self-censorship and fear of strangers. This probably has to do something with what you say about the 'Azov ultranationalists being based there', and might be a reason for them 'being based there'.

    Anyways, the reason the crazies would want to start a war now is that it might be a last ditch effort to cancel Nordstream 2, since the sanctions are not working. If there are active battles being fought, the US could tell Germany to cancel it due to evil Russians attacking Ukraianians or something to that effect. I'm sure my favorite weekly (Die Zeit), which is read by Germany's political and business class, would do its role in faithfully backing that line.

    Replies: @AP

    I wouldn’t trust survey results if it’s new.

    Look to the 2012 elections, under Yanukovich. Pro-Western parties there won 30%of the vote, compared to only 10% in Donbas. Since pro-Western skews young this means about 50% of young Kharkivites were pro-Western (and 90% older people pro-Russian). Many of the pro-Russians from Kharkiv have fled to Donbas.

    This probably has to do something with what you say about the ‘Azov ultranationalists being based there’, and might be a reason for them ‘being based there’.

    They are not only based there, but from there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

    The Azov Battalion has its roots in a group of Ultras of FC Metalist Kharkiv named “Sect 82” (1982 is the year of the founding of the group).[21] “Sect 82” was (at least until September 2013) allied with FC Spartak Moscow Ultras.[21] Late February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian crisis when a separatist movement was active in Kharkiv, “Sect 82” occupied the Kharkiv Oblast regional administration building in Kharkiv and served as a local “self-defense”-force.[21] Soon, on the basis of “Sect 82” there was formed a volunteer militia called “Eastern Corps”.[21]

    Their leader is a native of Kharkiv:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Biletsky_(politician)

    His maternal background is interesting:

    Born in 1979 in Kharkiv, Soviet Union, Biletsky’s father Yevhen Mykhailovych Biletsky hailed from an old Cossack family that founded the village of Krasnopavlivka (Lozova Raion), while Biletsky’s mother Olena Anatolivna Biletsky (née Lukashevych) descended from a noble family from Zhytomyr region, to which belong the Decembrist Vasiliy Lukashevich (Vasyl Lukashevych) who founded the “Little-Russian Secret Society”.

    [MORE]

    In his youth, Biletsky practiced several types of martial arts and boxing. In 1990 he refused to be accepted into the Vladimir Lenin All-Union Pioneer Organization. Biletsky, along with senior schoolmates, raised the Ukrainian flag over his school.[17] His major patriotic influence in his youth was his father’s gift of a book prohibited in the Soviet Union, History of Ukraine for children by Anton Lototsky.[17] In 2001, Biletsky graduated with honors from the History faculty of the University of Kharkiv. His thesis was about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.[5] The same year Biletsky participated in the Ukraine without Kuchma (UBK) protests, for which he was placed under administrative arrest. The Security Service of Ukraine pressured university administration to expel Biletsky from the institution.

    In 2002 Biletsky became a leader of the Kharkiv branch of the political organization Tryzub, and in 2003 cooperated with the Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU) opposing the idea of its transformation into Svoboda.[5

    • Replies: @blatnoi
    @AP

    Thanks for the info that confirms my friend's story that the city is basically a scary dystopia with people being afraid of their neighbors and random, crazy fascists. I actually personally know three people from Kharkov who are relatively young. True, they are PhDs and are not football hooligans, and they sort-of escaped but not to the Donbass, and some before 2014, so maybe they are not representative. However, if true, this means that if it does actually get captured by the Donbass, then they will find it possible to integrate.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Insomniac Resurrected
    @AP


    They are not only based there, but from there.
     
    They were also pro-Russian not so long ago before they were coopted by the Ukrainian establishment to join neo-Nazi international and become supporters of pro-Western course.

    This means they are not proper Ukrainian nationalists but rather a group of neo-Nazi thugs, who would serve anyone if they pay is good.

    Biletsky on Ukrainian relations with Russia.

    https://youtu.be/pahO92iq3E8

    Replies: @AP, @Mr. XYZ, @Bashibuzuk

    , @The Big Red Scary
    @AP

    Are there memoirs of Ukrainian nationalist militia men fighting in Donbass? Preferably in Russian, or translated into English. I'm reading 85 дней Слвянска, and I'd be interested in reading first hand about the other side.

    Replies: @AP

  80. @Mr. XYZ
    @AP

    I wonder if Kharkiv would have also fell to the separatists in 2014 had a Girkin-squad equivalent been sent there back then by Russia.

    Odessa I'm presuming was much less likely to fall even back in 2014 due to logistics, correct?

    Replies: @AP

    I wonder if Kharkiv would have also fell to the separatists in 2014 had a Girkin-squad equivalent been sent there back then by Russia.

    Doubtful (see my other post).

  81. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Mikhail

    How does this affiliation work? These Russophone "Ukrainians" have been a part of a country called Ukraine; they, from what I've heard, don't want to be a part of that country, but to secede & become a part of Russia.

    It is without precedence in any modern nation. I understand Russians living in these areas, they clearly are a separate people; but these "Ukrainians" are UINO. Their primary loyalty is not towards Ukraine.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  82. @Bashibuzuk
    @reiner Tor

    https://mediananny.com/content/images_new/news/620x408/129583.jpg

    Perhaps after a nuclear war...

    🙂

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Kent Nationalist

    Твоя мама пришла, молочка принесла.

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @The Big Red Scary

    https://deti-online.com/img/audioskazki/skazki-bratev-grimm--volk-i-semero-kozljat.jpg

    In the original it was:

    Ваша матушка пришла, молочка вам принесла.

    But I agree that if this post-Sovok opportunistic Armenian broad is a Russian nationalist, then Anatoly is indeed a little, cute and playful козлёнок.

    https://vokrug.tv/pic/news/e/a/3/8/ea38927d16ae77e767dccd9b79cc7314.jpg

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

  83. It is without precedence in any modern nation

    The “modern Ukrainian nation” is a Russian creation, not an anti-Russian creation. The meaning of its name is indicative of why it’s incredibly dumb to use the retarded ” without precedence in any modern nation” argument. All 3 of its names in history are indicative of this.

    All “modern nations” aren’t in the entirely ridiculous position where all 100, 150, 200, 250 year anniversaries for anything ( “modern” effecively means post-industrial revolution) – an institution in education, health, law enforcement, security, cultural etc are eternally linked with its Russianism. Ukrop trying to honour its Navy – how the f**k do you derussify that you moron?

    All modern nations are in some way the triumph of either the strong or the majority against the weak/minority within that area- this is the complete inverse you cretin. From outside of the country they have been made to equate anti-Russianism with westernism ( westernism just being a euphemism for high standard of living) – with this schizophrenic so-called westernism being based on the ascribed ideology of those in the most geographically western but mentally unwestern and backwards part of the country

    Does any “modern state” have a situation where the language primarily spoken by the “nationalist” ex President and his family, the current President and his family, head of foreign Intelligence, Defence Minister, Interior Minister, Health Minister, Parliament speaker, all the chief Medical experts, the main journalists, the most popular performers……………….is given inferior status? Where the current president ( who just like the other one owes his wealth to Russian market) has to go to Russia just to see all of his films, with afew of them being banned in the state he is President!

    All its separate state ideology is foreign-created and formed from are the same intellectual drivel that give us the ” 3 Black American female mathematicians put the first men on the moon”

    Did you answer my point about Womens day being celebrated IDENTICALLY in the 2 countries? Just like the first day at school is uniquely Russian world in how it’s done in RF/Bel/Ukr, or the same conflicted ways on how to or to not vigorously celebrate Orthodox Christmas in comparison to New Years, or in the way just about every babushka, policeman, thug, academic or whoever talks and conducts themselves which any independent watcher would say are people of identical culture.

  84. @Mikhail
    @Hapalong Cassidy


    The characters in “The Deer Hunter” were supposed to be part of a community of Rusyn immigrant steel workers .
     
    And in that movie, they referred to themselves as Russians.

    https://www.acrod.org/

    https://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Carpatho-Russian_Ohioans

    https://orthochristian.com/108811.html

    The wedding scene is the best part:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOGXl-ZoC14

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Hp2MW9AOQ

    SLAVA ROSSIYA!

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela

    That well known Ukrainian nationalist “anthem” Katyusha!
    The “Ukrainian” that sounds suspiciously like 100% Russian!

    Can the fantasist nutjob AP link his previous comment on this film – I would welcome the comedy

  85. @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela

    Still obsessed by Ukrainian girls' dresses? You want one just as nice?

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela, @By-tor

    Still obsessed by Ukrainian girls’ dresses? You want one just as nice?

    LOL – plagiarising my accurate jokes about you into demented nonsense.

    Even retarded scum as yourself knows that if Karlin linked that video with that post as you did…..it would be the end of his career as a blogger. Like if he claimed to have fought in Chechen war but never actually did. A blogger, particularly one as prolific and successful as Karlin is going to make either errors or make some comment that exposes them to critiques over time , maybe even create hyperbole and exaggeration – what they can never do is the type of infamous ” look at the western Ukrainian Galician culture here” BS that you did – outright lying followed by more ignorant lying precisely because you know f**k all, and dodgy wikipedia can’t “save ” you.

    Its just incredibly disturbing stuff.

    Anyway for the loser who has everybody post in memory and ready-to link from the last 6 years (L0L) – its amusing that you are of course too ashamed to repost your own fairly recent one ( if Karlin hasn’t allowed you to delete it already). I see the infamous fake “cousin” electrician is being magically created

    This is before we get into the mir/svet freakshow and about a million other things on here (somebody mentioned on this thread about the Deer Hunter film – LOL, let’s not even go there with a tramp like you LMAO)

    • Replies: @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela

    LOL, you are really desperate to see the dresses of Galician girls whom you are envious of. You keep begging to see them in every post.

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela

  86. Bashibuzuk says:
    @The Big Red Scary
    @Bashibuzuk

    Твоя мама пришла, молочка принесла.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    In the original it was:

    Ваша матушка пришла, молочка вам принесла.

    But I agree that if this post-Sovok opportunistic Armenian broad is a Russian nationalist, then Anatoly is indeed a little, cute and playful козлёнок.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @Bashibuzuk

    Yes. Also, I was referencing the RT 10 year anniversary video, from which comes the picture of Simonyan in the Soviet ushanka:

    https://yandex.ru/efir?stream_id=4a354ac6dcc0c29c8af044bdaa4af5c8&from_block=player_share_button_yavideo

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  87. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Agathoklis
    @Bashibuzuk

    Perhaps the most hilarious post I have read in years. Turkey almost no capability for that sort of adventure. And there are many easy ways for Russia to retaliate against Turkey without attacking Turkish territory proper. They can hit them in Syria either through proxies or directly as it would not trigger article 5 or they can simply arm the Kurds.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Discussing Turkey with a Greek is a waste of my time. You just cannot be unbiased when it comes to Turks. Therefore, you go here, read and think for yourself:

    https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing-nato-members.php

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/aZrTbBpAwH5WsDDOs-z2OQZyhbLiKEOeGAPHPw-V7csJNUuywWdtWvGV4sfEGMWJ8LjIHHY665td4v38ED-Nar7a

    https://www.oboreurope.com/en/category/news/middle-east/turkey/

    Sorry for the pain, but it is to avoid you any future disappointment.

    🙂

  88. AP says:
    @Bardon Kaldian
    @Bashibuzuk

    One may argue about it (I'm not sure, but there was something like Ukrainian identity centuries ago), just- it doesn't matter. In the protectorate/country Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bosnian Muslims or Bosniaks are the product of Islamization, which has begun in the 15th C. But they did not have their name until 20th C. First, in 1971, they were allowed to call themselves Muslims in a national sense, not Croats or Serbs (the vast majority of them did not identify with those peoples); then, in 1993 (I think) they adopted the name "Bosniak".

    Be as it may, they are strongly, with very few exceptions, opposed to the surrounding Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins in their culture, identity, social, political, economic aims etc. As Camus had said, people become what they already have been, even without being conscious of that.

    In the case of Ukrainians, it is perfectly clear how this nation is defined. So, I don't understand why those Russophone "Ukrainians" say they are Ukrainians. They- if these data are correct- are Russians of Ukrainian ancestry.

    Replies: @AP, @awry

    Correct. For all intents and purposes they are Russians of Ukrainian descent, but may self-identify as Ukrainians because they believe that Ukrainians are a type of Russian anyways, which is what Russian nationalists think.

    I can’t think of an analogue. Hypothetically – after decades of German occupation, German-speaking Netherlanders calling themselves Netherlanders -a type of German – with primary loyalty to Germany, and bitterly opposed to anti-German Netherlandic nationalists?

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @AP

    I also don't know anything similar. It seems that these people think of themselves as regional Russians, their regional identity being Ukrainian. But- this is nonsense. Ukrainians are a full fledged nation with this & not that identity symbols, culture, history, a sense of destiny - and these "Ukrainians" don't fit there.

    Language need not be the prime identity signifier- for instance, although the Irish had been forced to adopt, the majority of them, English language- they did not think of themselves as "English". When an Irishman says "we", he does not mean Anglo-Saxon king Alfred, the Battle of Hastings, Spanish Armada or Queen Elizabeth 1, 2 or anything similar.

    Israeli Jews have, of course, primary Jewish loyalty, so those Jews who immigrated from Arabic countries have ditched their mother tongue, Arabic, for Hebrew. Hebrew is an important historical language, but Arabic is a world language. And yet, they switched to a less important new language simply because it is the language of their people.

    Similar to Macedonians, who are a separate South Slavic people & neither Bulgarians nor Greeks (whatever the word "Macedonia" may have signified 1000 or 2000 or 3000years ago).

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela

  89. @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    Yes. Some Armenian girls have this phenotype of "Ancient European Farmer" populations that some Bulgarian and Romanian (Vlakh) women also have. Not my type, although when they are younger they might be attractive:

    https://i.pinimg.com/236x/07/47/87/074787043e5b43ed9c48e6849717b321--minoan-mycenaean.jpg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Cueilleuse_de_safran%2C_fresque%2C_Akrotiri%2C_Gr%C3%A8ce.jpg/220px-Cueilleuse_de_safran%2C_fresque%2C_Akrotiri%2C_Gr%C3%A8ce.jpg

    I am not a fan of mustachioed women.

    Speaking of female Russian pseudo-nationalists Natalya Poklonskaya is more my type.

    https://img.gazeta.ru/files3/867/12943867/upload-2020-02-03-03.00-pic4_zoom-1500x1500-25641.jpg

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Yes, she is the better looking MILF of the two, and by a significant margin, but that doesn’t mean that you should just write off Margarita. It’s better to have both in my hypothetical harem.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @reiner Tor

    Do you fancy beaver-eating women ?

    Because Simonyan is literally a beaver-eater.

    In 2013 Simonyan tweeted the following:


    Первый раз в жизни буду готовить бобра. Опросила знатоков. В итоге, сварю бобриную голову с луком, морковью и лаврушкой для бульона…остальное мясо замариную на ночь в чесноке, можжевеловых ягодах и черном пёрце, завтра обжарю и потому буду тушить в бульоне до мягкости.
     

    Today, for the first time in my life I will cook a beaver. I've consulted experts. As a result, I will boil the beaver's head with onions, carrots, and bay leaves for stock…the rest of the meat I will marinate over night in garlic, juniper berries, and black peppers, and tomorrow I will sear it and stew it in the stock until it's tender.
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Beaver_pho34.jpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGQ2oyG25LPFz_P3QAWR7aUkDlou19iEisGQ&usqp=CAU

    As the saying goes: "you are what you eat."

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Kent Nationalist, @Mr. Hack

  90. @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    Still obsessed by Ukrainian girls’ dresses? You want one just as nice?
     
    LOL - plagiarising my accurate jokes about you into demented nonsense.

    Even retarded scum as yourself knows that if Karlin linked that video with that post as you did.....it would be the end of his career as a blogger. Like if he claimed to have fought in Chechen war but never actually did. A blogger, particularly one as prolific and successful as Karlin is going to make either errors or make some comment that exposes them to critiques over time , maybe even create hyperbole and exaggeration - what they can never do is the type of infamous " look at the western Ukrainian Galician culture here" BS that you did - outright lying followed by more ignorant lying precisely because you know f**k all, and dodgy wikipedia can't "save " you.

    Its just incredibly disturbing stuff.

    Anyway for the loser who has everybody post in memory and ready-to link from the last 6 years (L0L) - its amusing that you are of course too ashamed to repost your own fairly recent one ( if Karlin hasn't allowed you to delete it already). I see the infamous fake "cousin" electrician is being magically created

    This is before we get into the mir/svet freakshow and about a million other things on here (somebody mentioned on this thread about the Deer Hunter film - LOL, let's not even go there with a tramp like you LMAO)

    Replies: @AP

    LOL, you are really desperate to see the dresses of Galician girls whom you are envious of. You keep begging to see them in every post.

    • Replies: @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    LOL, you are really desperate to see the dresses of Galician girls whom you are envious of. You keep begging to see them in every post.
     
    That bizarre repeated psychosexual response confirms one thing - that even scum like you are too ashamed to link that precisely because outside of the instantaneous BS, wikipedia copying, fake relatives and copying ridiculously non-credible polls that you have googled.......you truly have absolutely zero knowledge and experience of Ukraine ( not even superficial) and are truly deranged.

    Some people are too naive and trusting, assuming that because you post a million comments here a day on it, then you must be involved - but it is truly shocking what a disturbed cursed in hell clown as yourself attempts to do.

    Just admit it ( and Karlin I would emphasise this is not an incitement for this POS to do it)..... if you reposted that bizarre comment to be subjected to even basic scrutiny, just like if you let go of your anonymity ( including posting as "Polish" something and some other forum that you have spammed LOL - WTF)......then you would commit suicide out of shame.

    Going back to the Deer Hunter - LOL

    but please give another "language lesson"!!

    Replies: @AP

  91. @Aslangeo
    @YetAnotherAnon

    This is transcarpathia or ruthenia. They are a small area with an interesting history, having previously been part of Hungary, and Slovakia. The local people, the Rusyns speak a distinct language, which is related to but different from from Ukrainian and consider themselves to be a distinct ethnicity. They are not big fans of extreme Ukrainian nationalists who refuse to recognise their separateness. This area also has a small ethnic Hungarian minority. Hence the vote against the nationalists and the presence of a local autonomy movement ( so far thankfully peaceful)

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @YetAnotherAnon

    What in the 1930s Brits called “Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia”?

    All of these Donald read carefully and reviewed carefully, resisting with stern determination the immoral advice of Mr. Harcourt on the subject of reviewing.

    “Read the publisher’s jacket first,” said Mr. Harcourt, preaching his scandalous gospel. “That will usually give you the author’s name and some sort of idea of what the book is about. If the jacket says that the book is an illuminating, unique, sensational, thought-provoking exposé from within of the political situation in Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia, then the odds are about three to one that the book is about Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia. About once in four times they put the wrong cover on and you find that it’s a book of short stories called Tikkity-Tonk, Old Fish! or a reprint of the Epistle to the Romans, but more often than not they get it right. Very well, then. You’ve got the subject. You then look at the index of chapters. That gives you the scope of the book, shows you whether it covers the religious question, or gives a list of the hotels, or has a bit about peasant costumes, or goes in for trade statistics, or touches upon the proportion of illegitimate to legitimate kids, or sketches the history of the place since Attila, and so on. By this time you’ve got the whole substance of the book and then all you’ve got to do is to read the last two paragraphs of the last chapter, to see whether the author thinks the Sub-Carpathian Ruthenians are good eggs or bad eggs, and there you are.

    https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/macdonellag-englandtheirengland/macdonellag-englandtheirengland-00-h.html

  92. @AP
    @blatnoi


    I wouldn’t trust survey results if it’s new.
     
    Look to the 2012 elections, under Yanukovich. Pro-Western parties there won 30%of the vote, compared to only 10% in Donbas. Since pro-Western skews young this means about 50% of young Kharkivites were pro-Western (and 90% older people pro-Russian). Many of the pro-Russians from Kharkiv have fled to Donbas.

    This probably has to do something with what you say about the ‘Azov ultranationalists being based there’, and might be a reason for them ‘being based there’.
     
    They are not only based there, but from there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

    The Azov Battalion has its roots in a group of Ultras of FC Metalist Kharkiv named "Sect 82" (1982 is the year of the founding of the group).[21] "Sect 82" was (at least until September 2013) allied with FC Spartak Moscow Ultras.[21] Late February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian crisis when a separatist movement was active in Kharkiv, "Sect 82" occupied the Kharkiv Oblast regional administration building in Kharkiv and served as a local "self-defense"-force.[21] Soon, on the basis of "Sect 82" there was formed a volunteer militia called "Eastern Corps".[21]

    Their leader is a native of Kharkiv:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Biletsky_(politician)

    His maternal background is interesting:

    Born in 1979 in Kharkiv, Soviet Union, Biletsky's father Yevhen Mykhailovych Biletsky hailed from an old Cossack family that founded the village of Krasnopavlivka (Lozova Raion), while Biletsky's mother Olena Anatolivna Biletsky (née Lukashevych) descended from a noble family from Zhytomyr region, to which belong the Decembrist Vasiliy Lukashevich (Vasyl Lukashevych) who founded the "Little-Russian Secret Society".

    In his youth, Biletsky practiced several types of martial arts and boxing. In 1990 he refused to be accepted into the Vladimir Lenin All-Union Pioneer Organization. Biletsky, along with senior schoolmates, raised the Ukrainian flag over his school.[17] His major patriotic influence in his youth was his father's gift of a book prohibited in the Soviet Union, History of Ukraine for children by Anton Lototsky.[17] In 2001, Biletsky graduated with honors from the History faculty of the University of Kharkiv. His thesis was about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.[5] The same year Biletsky participated in the Ukraine without Kuchma (UBK) protests, for which he was placed under administrative arrest. The Security Service of Ukraine pressured university administration to expel Biletsky from the institution.

    In 2002 Biletsky became a leader of the Kharkiv branch of the political organization Tryzub, and in 2003 cooperated with the Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU) opposing the idea of its transformation into Svoboda.[5

    Replies: @blatnoi, @Insomniac Resurrected, @The Big Red Scary

    Thanks for the info that confirms my friend’s story that the city is basically a scary dystopia with people being afraid of their neighbors and random, crazy fascists. I actually personally know three people from Kharkov who are relatively young. True, they are PhDs and are not football hooligans, and they sort-of escaped but not to the Donbass, and some before 2014, so maybe they are not representative. However, if true, this means that if it does actually get captured by the Donbass, then they will find it possible to integrate.

    • Replies: @AP
    @blatnoi

    Why “scary dystopia?” Crime rate is reasonable, city looks pleasant, etc.

    The VK statistics showed about half of the young people were pro-Maidan and half were anti-Maidan. IIRC pro-Maidan was popular among students in teaching and medical institutes while anti-Maidan was more popular in the engineering schools (which makes sense because Kharkiv’s industries were linked to Russia). But the football ultras were anti-Russian.

    Kharkiv would be a much better prize than Donbas for Russia. More educated population, not as criminal, some important industries such as the tank factory. Russia has good intelligence on Ukraine, if the city were easy to take the Russians would have surely taken it. But the place was too divided, Russia didn’t go for it. Kharkiv is not Donbas. Many of the city’s pro-Russians have fled so it is less Russian now than it was before.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

  93. @Bashibuzuk
    @The Big Red Scary

    https://deti-online.com/img/audioskazki/skazki-bratev-grimm--volk-i-semero-kozljat.jpg

    In the original it was:

    Ваша матушка пришла, молочка вам принесла.

    But I agree that if this post-Sovok opportunistic Armenian broad is a Russian nationalist, then Anatoly is indeed a little, cute and playful козлёнок.

    https://vokrug.tv/pic/news/e/a/3/8/ea38927d16ae77e767dccd9b79cc7314.jpg

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    Yes. Also, I was referencing the RT 10 year anniversary video, from which comes the picture of Simonyan in the Soviet ushanka:

    https://yandex.ru/efir?stream_id=4a354ac6dcc0c29c8af044bdaa4af5c8&from_block=player_share_button_yavideo

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @The Big Red Scary

    Yes I vaguely remembered it. Thanks for reminding me of the Simonyan's beaver affair, there is an emptied "Beaver Juice " can leaking blood featured in the vid. I was also trying to understand the language she spoke to the "expatikys", is it Armenian, Yiddish, a mix of both or something ever more exotic?

    Some Orc dialect perhaps (and I am thinking of Pelevin's "Snuff" novel here)...

    🙂

  94. @AP
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Correct. For all intents and purposes they are Russians of Ukrainian descent, but may self-identify as Ukrainians because they believe that Ukrainians are a type of Russian anyways, which is what Russian nationalists think.

    I can’t think of an analogue. Hypothetically - after decades of German occupation, German-speaking Netherlanders calling themselves Netherlanders -a type of German - with primary loyalty to Germany, and bitterly opposed to anti-German Netherlandic nationalists?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    I also don’t know anything similar. It seems that these people think of themselves as regional Russians, their regional identity being Ukrainian. But- this is nonsense. Ukrainians are a full fledged nation with this & not that identity symbols, culture, history, a sense of destiny – and these “Ukrainians” don’t fit there.

    Language need not be the prime identity signifier- for instance, although the Irish had been forced to adopt, the majority of them, English language- they did not think of themselves as “English”. When an Irishman says “we”, he does not mean Anglo-Saxon king Alfred, the Battle of Hastings, Spanish Armada or Queen Elizabeth 1, 2 or anything similar.

    Israeli Jews have, of course, primary Jewish loyalty, so those Jews who immigrated from Arabic countries have ditched their mother tongue, Arabic, for Hebrew. Hebrew is an important historical language, but Arabic is a world language. And yet, they switched to a less important new language simply because it is the language of their people.

    Similar to Macedonians, who are a separate South Slavic people & neither Bulgarians nor Greeks (whatever the word “Macedonia” may have signified 1000 or 2000 or 3000years ago).

    • Replies: @Gerard-Mandela
    @Bardon Kaldian


    Language need not be the prime identity signifier- for instance, although the Irish had been forced to adopt, the majority of them, English language- they did not think of themselves as “English”. When an Irishman says “we”, he does not mean Anglo-Saxon king Alfred, the Battle of Hastings, Spanish Armada or Queen Elizabeth 1, 2 or anything similar.
     
    So when a Ukrainian does "not" mean Alexander 2nd, Catherine the Great, Nicholas the 1st , Kursk, Stalingrad, Battle of Poltava , Siege(s) of Sevastopol and other events and people intrinsically linked to his culture and national consciousness.......then who else does he mean you laughable cretin? LOL - what a stupid comment to make.

    Rakhmaninov, Gogol, Pushkin, Prokofiev, Bulgakov, Zhukov and an ocean of others - Russian world and intrinsically part of the culture of every "Ukrainian". Outside of that all you have are fringe, moderately successful idiots who were only famous in the sense they were moderately famous within the Russian Empire masqueraded as Ukrainian "nationalist" heroes. Outside of that all there are is sadist losers retrospectively praised and the Soris-inspired ukrop equivalents of " 3 Black female scientists sent man to the moon"


    Irish potato famine - a huge event permanently stitched into Irish history. A huge part of consciousness of Irish diaspora all over the world as much of their exodus occurred because of it, a direct connection between now and then.......an event that caused such a huge demographic catastrophe in Ireland that it ( unbelievably) has still not even been recovered in population numbers from now - 160 years later!

    Golodomor - an event with absolutely zero part in Ukraine national consciousness in 1991, 1994 or even many years later. Nobody actually in Ukraine post-USSR gave a f**k or viewed it as something that targeted them ( just like there was no major movement in Ukraine for the retarded claims that Stalin was against them - particularly as there had just been 40 years of his name not promoted in USSR and extensive renaming, removal and education change from Khrushchev of all things relating to him, and official condemnation of nearly all his policies )
    An event with absolutely ZERO to do with scumbag fantasist "diaspora" who did not even live on those lands that experienced that famine! (and who suffered plenty of actual famines before then in their own reject land)
    An event ( again, I am talking about the World Series, William Randolph Heart Golodomor) where the demographic "collapse" caused by it took.......3 seconds to recover from

    Ireland , the Emerald Island - a country quite literally defined by it's geography

    Ukraine - a country quite literally in it's name undefined by it's geography, a totally schizophrenic, artificial construct

    Ireland - a nation where songs , poems, writings of lost battles or alleged sins by the British are known by most of the population and said or sung without even intention to be insulting to the British but just because these are songs of Irish culture

    Ukraine - a country where f**k all of these songs, poems, art against Russian "occupation" or "imperialism" exist

    Ireland - where it's folk traditions and culture are entirely unlinked to British culture ( well, English)

    Ukraine - where they are all interlinked and derivative and very similar to all through of Russia and Belarus



    Is it just me or was London not founded by an Irishman? LOL

    Ukrainians are a full fledged nation with this & not that identity symbols, culture, history, a sense of destiny
     
    LOL- WTF? What a dumb POS

    a sense of destiny
     
    Quite literally LMAO. I know you're be a typical anti-Russian CIA scumbag coward - but at least have the courage to explain what exactly that nonsense means. WHAT "sense of denstiny" ? To be used as a 2-dollar whore in western fights against Russia?

    So don't be a coward.......where and what is this "destiny"?
  95. Bashibuzuk says:
    @reiner Tor
    @Bashibuzuk

    Yes, she is the better looking MILF of the two, and by a significant margin, but that doesn’t mean that you should just write off Margarita. It’s better to have both in my hypothetical harem.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Do you fancy beaver-eating women ?

    Because Simonyan is literally a beaver-eater.

    In 2013 Simonyan tweeted the following:

    Первый раз в жизни буду готовить бобра. Опросила знатоков. В итоге, сварю бобриную голову с луком, морковью и лаврушкой для бульона…остальное мясо замариную на ночь в чесноке, можжевеловых ягодах и черном пёрце, завтра обжарю и потому буду тушить в бульоне до мягкости.

    Today, for the first time in my life I will cook a beaver. I’ve consulted experts. As a result, I will boil the beaver’s head with onions, carrots, and bay leaves for stock…the rest of the meat I will marinate over night in garlic, juniper berries, and black peppers, and tomorrow I will sear it and stew it in the stock until it’s tender.

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGQ2oyG25LPFz_P3QAWR7aUkDlou19iEisGQ&usqp=CAU

    As the saying goes: “you are what you eat.”

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Bashibuzuk

    That's not the first thought that comes to mind when people say "beaver-eating."

    , @Kent Nationalist
    @Bashibuzuk

    I have eaten tinned Lithuanian beaver before. It tasted a lot like Pâté.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Bashibuzuk

    People have been known to eat pigeon and squirrel meat too, and rabbit, although popular in Europe is not sold in very many grocery stores in North America. I'm not sure if Asians still eat cat or dog?
    Anybody for bat?...

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist, @Bashibuzuk, @Daniel Chieh

  96. @Bashibuzuk
    @reiner Tor

    Do you fancy beaver-eating women ?

    Because Simonyan is literally a beaver-eater.

    In 2013 Simonyan tweeted the following:


    Первый раз в жизни буду готовить бобра. Опросила знатоков. В итоге, сварю бобриную голову с луком, морковью и лаврушкой для бульона…остальное мясо замариную на ночь в чесноке, можжевеловых ягодах и черном пёрце, завтра обжарю и потому буду тушить в бульоне до мягкости.
     

    Today, for the first time in my life I will cook a beaver. I've consulted experts. As a result, I will boil the beaver's head with onions, carrots, and bay leaves for stock…the rest of the meat I will marinate over night in garlic, juniper berries, and black peppers, and tomorrow I will sear it and stew it in the stock until it's tender.
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Beaver_pho34.jpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGQ2oyG25LPFz_P3QAWR7aUkDlou19iEisGQ&usqp=CAU

    As the saying goes: "you are what you eat."

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Kent Nationalist, @Mr. Hack

    That’s not the first thought that comes to mind when people say “beaver-eating.”

  97. @Bashibuzuk
    @reiner Tor

    https://mediananny.com/content/images_new/news/620x408/129583.jpg

    Perhaps after a nuclear war...

    🙂

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Kent Nationalist

    That looks like a still from a 70s British sitcom

  98. Bashibuzuk says:
    @The Big Red Scary
    @Bashibuzuk

    Yes. Also, I was referencing the RT 10 year anniversary video, from which comes the picture of Simonyan in the Soviet ushanka:

    https://yandex.ru/efir?stream_id=4a354ac6dcc0c29c8af044bdaa4af5c8&from_block=player_share_button_yavideo

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Yes I vaguely remembered it. Thanks for reminding me of the Simonyan’s beaver affair, there is an emptied “Beaver Juice ” can leaking blood featured in the vid. I was also trying to understand the language she spoke to the “expatikys“, is it Armenian, Yiddish, a mix of both or something ever more exotic?

    Some Orc dialect perhaps (and I am thinking of Pelevin’s “Snuff” novel here)…

    🙂

  99. @Bashibuzuk
    @reiner Tor

    Do you fancy beaver-eating women ?

    Because Simonyan is literally a beaver-eater.

    In 2013 Simonyan tweeted the following:


    Первый раз в жизни буду готовить бобра. Опросила знатоков. В итоге, сварю бобриную голову с луком, морковью и лаврушкой для бульона…остальное мясо замариную на ночь в чесноке, можжевеловых ягодах и черном пёрце, завтра обжарю и потому буду тушить в бульоне до мягкости.
     

    Today, for the first time in my life I will cook a beaver. I've consulted experts. As a result, I will boil the beaver's head with onions, carrots, and bay leaves for stock…the rest of the meat I will marinate over night in garlic, juniper berries, and black peppers, and tomorrow I will sear it and stew it in the stock until it's tender.
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Beaver_pho34.jpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGQ2oyG25LPFz_P3QAWR7aUkDlou19iEisGQ&usqp=CAU

    As the saying goes: "you are what you eat."

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Kent Nationalist, @Mr. Hack

    I have eaten tinned Lithuanian beaver before. It tasted a lot like Pâté.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Kent Nationalist

    I read somewhere that in the colonisation era, Native Americans preferred beaver meat to the bear meat. But I cannot help myself thinking of beaver fever when I hear about it being consumed as food.

    https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/giardiasis/fact_sheet.htm

  100. @Kent Nationalist
    @Bashibuzuk

    I have eaten tinned Lithuanian beaver before. It tasted a lot like Pâté.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    I read somewhere that in the colonisation era, Native Americans preferred beaver meat to the bear meat. But I cannot help myself thinking of beaver fever when I hear about it being consumed as food.

    https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/giardiasis/fact_sheet.htm

  101. I thought that I’d help Karlin out and help him consolidate his ideas:

    “The Russian Donbass Is Here to Stay – Russian Manufacturing Productivity on Par with France’S. (In 1908).”

    The people of Donbas should have already realized that in the long term they’ll need a lot of real jobs in order to sustain themselves. I don’t think that Moscow is about to reinvent Donbass as Russia’s new silicon valley. What are they going to do after all they get from Russia is pics and axes and told to go back into the caves and tunnels to mine coal, like they did in 1908?

    • Thanks: Anatoly Karlin
  102. @AP
    @Beckow


    Subcarpathia, the land of the Rusins, formerly part of Czechoslovakia (and Habsburg Empire)
     
    Reality check: about 1% of the people there claim a separate Rusyn ethnicity.

    The region had no link with anything Ukrainian, or Russian, for 1,000 years.
     
    The region experienced settlement by eastern Slavs from Galicia (hence their name Rusin) through the 14th century and part of the region was ruled from Lviv until 1320. Both Russophiles and Ukrainian nationalists arrived there after 1918. So there was little contact with the rest of Ukraine for about 600 years, not 1,000.

    Their speech is like the Galician dialect plus some Hungarian words. Their standardized language includes Church Slavonic that standardized Ukrainian does not (but Russian does) so in some ways it sounds like a weird combination of Galician dialect and Russian.

    It is true that these people are not nearly as nationalistic as the Galicians on the other side of the Carpathians. Rather, they are about as nationalistic as Ukrainians in oblasts like Zhytomir.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Beckow, @Mr. Hack

    Yeah, I think that Beckow is off his rocker on this one, and is thinking with his sovok heart, and not with his mind. There’s absolutely no indication that anybody besides a few old sovoks (probably why he believes in such fairy tales), paid Russian provocaterus and a few Hungarian revanchists want to separate from Ukraine. Over 1,ooo,ooo citizens of this area are perfectly comfortable living within their Ukrainian identity. As far as the language used there is concerned, it’s actually a lot like the development in neighboring Galicia and Bukovina (also lands of ancient “Rusyns”). The young and middle aged people all speak a language closest to the one spoken throughout the country, standardized Ukrainian. Nobody but the oldest of remaining babas and didos in Galicia speaks the Galician dialect anymore, the same in Zakarpattya too.

    • Replies: @Old jew
    @Mr. Hack

    It is the only dialect I know.

  103. @AndrewR
    @Spisarevski

    Your dick is telling you to get your vision checked

    Replies: @AgBars

    At least he’s got one, Sweetie.

  104. @Bashibuzuk
    @reiner Tor

    Do you fancy beaver-eating women ?

    Because Simonyan is literally a beaver-eater.

    In 2013 Simonyan tweeted the following:


    Первый раз в жизни буду готовить бобра. Опросила знатоков. В итоге, сварю бобриную голову с луком, морковью и лаврушкой для бульона…остальное мясо замариную на ночь в чесноке, можжевеловых ягодах и черном пёрце, завтра обжарю и потому буду тушить в бульоне до мягкости.
     

    Today, for the first time in my life I will cook a beaver. I've consulted experts. As a result, I will boil the beaver's head with onions, carrots, and bay leaves for stock…the rest of the meat I will marinate over night in garlic, juniper berries, and black peppers, and tomorrow I will sear it and stew it in the stock until it's tender.
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Beaver_pho34.jpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGQ2oyG25LPFz_P3QAWR7aUkDlou19iEisGQ&usqp=CAU

    As the saying goes: "you are what you eat."

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Kent Nationalist, @Mr. Hack

    People have been known to eat pigeon and squirrel meat too, and rabbit, although popular in Europe is not sold in very many grocery stores in North America. I’m not sure if Asians still eat cat or dog?
    Anybody for bat?…

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    @Mr. Hack

    Pigeon is commonly served in British restaurants and delicious.

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @Mr. Hack

    Rabbit is certainly eaten in a lot of places and is very good. Wild turtledoves too. The Beaver should probably also taste quite good. But Eurasian beaver is an endangered species, it should be off the menu. Simonyan has also tweeted that it is okay to eat muskrat, supposedly it is considered quite edible in some Russian regions (although I have never heard about it before her tweets).

    Replies: @AP, @A123

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @Mr. Hack

    I haven't, but this still exists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychee_and_Dog_Meat_Festival

    It is the best casus belli against Chinese existence for many.

    EDIT: looks like it was recently banned


    Amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, China's Agriculture Ministry and Rural Affairs officially declared that dogs are companions, and should not be treated as livestock
     

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

  105. @Mr. Hack
    @Bashibuzuk

    People have been known to eat pigeon and squirrel meat too, and rabbit, although popular in Europe is not sold in very many grocery stores in North America. I'm not sure if Asians still eat cat or dog?
    Anybody for bat?...

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist, @Bashibuzuk, @Daniel Chieh

    Pigeon is commonly served in British restaurants and delicious.

  106. But I don’t think it’s happening for a multitude of different reasons:

    I don’t’ think so. There is a big reason pressuring the war to happen: Biden’s regime hate toward Russia. The regime wants to use Ukraine as battery ram against Russia. And, if old Joe orders the clown to attack, the clown will attack.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Aedib

    I think there is a reasonable possibility that Ukrainian military will try to recapture the rebel territories somewhere in May or June. Short of an outright Russian military intervention they will probably succeed.

    Replies: @Aedib, @Beckow

  107. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @Bashibuzuk

    People have been known to eat pigeon and squirrel meat too, and rabbit, although popular in Europe is not sold in very many grocery stores in North America. I'm not sure if Asians still eat cat or dog?
    Anybody for bat?...

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist, @Bashibuzuk, @Daniel Chieh

    Rabbit is certainly eaten in a lot of places and is very good. Wild turtledoves too. The Beaver should probably also taste quite good. But Eurasian beaver is an endangered species, it should be off the menu. Simonyan has also tweeted that it is okay to eat muskrat, supposedly it is considered quite edible in some Russian regions (although I have never heard about it before her tweets).

    • Replies: @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    Muskrat was a regional delicacy favoured by the rural descendants of French settlers in the Detroit suburbs. Because muskrats were common at a time when peoples le were poor and food was expensive (regular people could catch them), and lived in the water, the local Catholic Church allowed the French to consider them to be fish for the purposes of Lent:

    https://www.hourdetroit.com/community/muskrat-dinners-a-tradition-during-lent-downriver/

    For generations of metro Detroiters, mostly of French-Canadian fur trapper descent, muskrats are considered a special meal — a kind of folk tradition. This “muskrat belt” follows the Detroit river south to the region commonly known as “Downriver,” through nearby Wyandotte, down to Monroe, and into Ohio...

    , @A123
    @Bashibuzuk

    People in Louisiana have been known to eat nutria. However, I do not believe it is terribly popular.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://i0.wp.com/media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/0_EatNutria.jpg



    https://www.nutria.com/piclib/195.png

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Morton's toes

  108. @Aedib

    But I don’t think it’s happening for a multitude of different reasons:
     
    I don’t’ think so. There is a big reason pressuring the war to happen: Biden’s regime hate toward Russia. The regime wants to use Ukraine as battery ram against Russia. And, if old Joe orders the clown to attack, the clown will attack.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    I think there is a reasonable possibility that Ukrainian military will try to recapture the rebel territories somewhere in May or June. Short of an outright Russian military intervention they will probably succeed.

    • Agree: Aedib
    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Bashibuzuk

    Don't forget voentorg and north wind.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @Beckow
    @Bashibuzuk

    You are right, but the timing could be sooner to take advantage of corona fog. The problem is that Kiev has no reliable way to motivate its soldiers and as long as there is even a possibility that Russia would intervene they will be very tentative. It is hard to win that way unless there is an apriori agreement with Russia. I doubt that is in the cards.

    This has a feeling about it that something completely else might happen. What we have today are the small events before bigger ones.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  109. AP says:
    @blatnoi
    @AP

    Thanks for the info that confirms my friend's story that the city is basically a scary dystopia with people being afraid of their neighbors and random, crazy fascists. I actually personally know three people from Kharkov who are relatively young. True, they are PhDs and are not football hooligans, and they sort-of escaped but not to the Donbass, and some before 2014, so maybe they are not representative. However, if true, this means that if it does actually get captured by the Donbass, then they will find it possible to integrate.

    Replies: @AP

    Why “scary dystopia?” Crime rate is reasonable, city looks pleasant, etc.

    The VK statistics showed about half of the young people were pro-Maidan and half were anti-Maidan. IIRC pro-Maidan was popular among students in teaching and medical institutes while anti-Maidan was more popular in the engineering schools (which makes sense because Kharkiv’s industries were linked to Russia). But the football ultras were anti-Russian.

    Kharkiv would be a much better prize than Donbas for Russia. More educated population, not as criminal, some important industries such as the tank factory. Russia has good intelligence on Ukraine, if the city were easy to take the Russians would have surely taken it. But the place was too divided, Russia didn’t go for it. Kharkiv is not Donbas. Many of the city’s pro-Russians have fled so it is less Russian now than it was before.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @AP


    Russia has good intelligence on Ukraine, if the city were easy to take the Russians would have surely taken it.
     
    Nah. Russia didn't even want to take the parts of Ukraine that it could take, but instead had its hand forced by that amateur Strelkov LARPing as a White Army officer.

    Replies: @AP, @Belarusian Dude

  110. AP says:
    @Bashibuzuk
    @Mr. Hack

    Rabbit is certainly eaten in a lot of places and is very good. Wild turtledoves too. The Beaver should probably also taste quite good. But Eurasian beaver is an endangered species, it should be off the menu. Simonyan has also tweeted that it is okay to eat muskrat, supposedly it is considered quite edible in some Russian regions (although I have never heard about it before her tweets).

    Replies: @AP, @A123

    Muskrat was a regional delicacy favoured by the rural descendants of French settlers in the Detroit suburbs. Because muskrats were common at a time when peoples le were poor and food was expensive (regular people could catch them), and lived in the water, the local Catholic Church allowed the French to consider them to be fish for the purposes of Lent:

    https://www.hourdetroit.com/community/muskrat-dinners-a-tradition-during-lent-downriver/

    For generations of metro Detroiters, mostly of French-Canadian fur trapper descent, muskrats are considered a special meal — a kind of folk tradition. This “muskrat belt” follows the Detroit river south to the region commonly known as “Downriver,” through nearby Wyandotte, down to Monroe, and into Ohio…

  111. @Bashibuzuk
    @Mr. Hack

    Rabbit is certainly eaten in a lot of places and is very good. Wild turtledoves too. The Beaver should probably also taste quite good. But Eurasian beaver is an endangered species, it should be off the menu. Simonyan has also tweeted that it is okay to eat muskrat, supposedly it is considered quite edible in some Russian regions (although I have never heard about it before her tweets).

    Replies: @AP, @A123

    People in Louisiana have been known to eat nutria. However, I do not believe it is terribly popular.

    PEACE 😇

     

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @A123

    They eat it in France too:



    https://youtu.be/5rEss9IFCEE

    A French cooking show btter not shown to our vegan friends.

    Also I have read about it and indeed people eat it in Russia, they cook it like a rabbit.

    , @Morton's toes
    @A123


    If it’s got four legs, a Coonass will shoot it, clean it, throw it in a pot and make a gravy out of it.
     
    https://stuffcajunpeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/29-squirrel-hunting/
  112. @Bashibuzuk
    @Aedib

    I think there is a reasonable possibility that Ukrainian military will try to recapture the rebel territories somewhere in May or June. Short of an outright Russian military intervention they will probably succeed.

    Replies: @Aedib, @Beckow

    Don’t forget voentorg and north wind.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Aedib

    Yes, but this time Ukrainian army is way more battle - hardened. Also, as I have previously commented, the Turks have established a partnership with Ukraine to use their drones. And NATO will probably provide much more support than in 2014. Finally, and most importantly, the Russian elite is divided on the Donbass question. In 2014, it was supposedly Shoigu himself who vetoed a full scale intervention in Eastern Ukraine.

    Replies: @Aedib

  113. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Aedib
    @Bashibuzuk

    Don't forget voentorg and north wind.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Yes, but this time Ukrainian army is way more battle – hardened. Also, as I have previously commented, the Turks have established a partnership with Ukraine to use their drones. And NATO will probably provide much more support than in 2014. Finally, and most importantly, the Russian elite is divided on the Donbass question. In 2014, it was supposedly Shoigu himself who vetoed a full scale intervention in Eastern Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Bashibuzuk

    Rebels had also lots of time to dig. This plus many embedded spetsnaz and lots of “rebel MLRS” would have any Ukr advance a bloodbath.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  114. @Bashibuzuk
    @Aedib

    Yes, but this time Ukrainian army is way more battle - hardened. Also, as I have previously commented, the Turks have established a partnership with Ukraine to use their drones. And NATO will probably provide much more support than in 2014. Finally, and most importantly, the Russian elite is divided on the Donbass question. In 2014, it was supposedly Shoigu himself who vetoed a full scale intervention in Eastern Ukraine.

    Replies: @Aedib

    Rebels had also lots of time to dig. This plus many embedded spetsnaz and lots of “rebel MLRS” would have any Ukr advance a bloodbath.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Aedib

    Probably it will be hell for both sides to the great enjoyment of the neocon. As I have repeatedly written : when the Mohawk and the Wendat kill and scalp each other, the Pale Face smiles contentedly.

  115. @AP
    @blatnoi

    Why “scary dystopia?” Crime rate is reasonable, city looks pleasant, etc.

    The VK statistics showed about half of the young people were pro-Maidan and half were anti-Maidan. IIRC pro-Maidan was popular among students in teaching and medical institutes while anti-Maidan was more popular in the engineering schools (which makes sense because Kharkiv’s industries were linked to Russia). But the football ultras were anti-Russian.

    Kharkiv would be a much better prize than Donbas for Russia. More educated population, not as criminal, some important industries such as the tank factory. Russia has good intelligence on Ukraine, if the city were easy to take the Russians would have surely taken it. But the place was too divided, Russia didn’t go for it. Kharkiv is not Donbas. Many of the city’s pro-Russians have fled so it is less Russian now than it was before.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    Russia has good intelligence on Ukraine, if the city were easy to take the Russians would have surely taken it.

    Nah. Russia didn’t even want to take the parts of Ukraine that it could take, but instead had its hand forced by that amateur Strelkov LARPing as a White Army officer.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @AP
    @The Big Red Scary

    To clarify - not take and annex, but remove from Ukraine.

    , @Belarusian Dude
    @The Big Red Scary

    Tbf Strelkov wasnt exactly an amateur. Even before his Ukrainian (mis)adventures he had participated in many successful military actions as leader and commander. The greatest critique would realistically be that despite larping as a white guard his brain was still full of Soviet "brother hood of nations" and similar nonsense. A very large amount of men who served under him lamented how he was hesitant to strike on the Ukrainians. Entire divisions could have been destroyed while they werent organized but Strelkov believed that they could be convinced to defect or stand down. Unfortunately he wasnt very educated in matters Ukrainian and thus wasnt aware of the decades of brainrot that media was feeding to the people there. It is rather sad there was nobody there that was willing to take this decisive action.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

  116. @The Big Red Scary
    @AP


    Russia has good intelligence on Ukraine, if the city were easy to take the Russians would have surely taken it.
     
    Nah. Russia didn't even want to take the parts of Ukraine that it could take, but instead had its hand forced by that amateur Strelkov LARPing as a White Army officer.

    Replies: @AP, @Belarusian Dude

    To clarify – not take and annex, but remove from Ukraine.

  117. @Ludwig
    @Ludwig

    This report http://thesaker.is/https-southfront-org-eastern-ukraine-on-brink-of-new-attempt-of-kiev-forces-offensive/ on increasing shelling of the contact lines by Ukrainian forces, the disappearance of heavy artillery from OSCE SMM monitored Ukrainian depots; coupled with the new aggressive stance being taken by US Big Tech in censoring Russian news/opinions/narratives - with info warriors like Ben Nimmo reporting for duty at Facebook - not to mention the backdrop of increasing sanctions; US govt announced cyber warfare; promotion of events to destabilize Russia from within, mean that Nuland has decided that she/neocons are in a win-win position in if they order Z to attack. In the off chance Z makes inroads, great - that will be a blow to Putin and cause disquiet in Russia. In the greater chance there is a Ukrainian defeat with overt Russian action, then also great. More sanctions etc against Russia casting it as the ultimate aggressor and further justifying more NATO build up.

    It is unclear whether Russia has any strategy against psychopaths like Nuland.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Beckow

    There is a third possibility: Kiev throws what they have against Donbass and doesn’t make any progress: more dead and status quo. Kremlin seems to prefer that. This is likely because of lack of motivation to die on both sides. They will do what is easy.

    In case I am wrong (it happens), both your options will result in more massive sanctions. Any fighting will trigger it, that’s why neo-cons want fighting. They don’t give a sh..t who owns what muddy field in Ukraine and see both sides as disposable people – actually would prefer most of them dead.

    Russia has no way to influence the narrative and their best option is to preventively sanction themselves and the Western partners who are still interested in trade with Russia. A jiu-jitsu defense, I thought Putin understood how that works, but his oligarch friends hate it.

    Ukraine’s best option is to accept Minsk and give Donbass autonomy. Then time would solve everything and Ukraine would stay united and eventually make up.

    The problem is that Washington doesn’t care one bit for federated (or not) Ukraine. Originally they wanted Crimea and to eventually move Nato bases there (it’s an excellent location). They lost and moved on to using Ukraine as a battering ram against Russia – move mayhem the better. Europeans are not an independent player so it doesn’t matter what they think as Nuland told them.

    Those are the stakes, but my assumption is that people are rational and that is often a foolish assumption. It is now all about emotions and that’s how a lot of people always end up dead.

    • Agree: El Dato
  118. @Aedib
    @Bashibuzuk

    Rebels had also lots of time to dig. This plus many embedded spetsnaz and lots of “rebel MLRS” would have any Ukr advance a bloodbath.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Probably it will be hell for both sides to the great enjoyment of the neocon. As I have repeatedly written : when the Mohawk and the Wendat kill and scalp each other, the Pale Face smiles contentedly.

    • Agree: Aedib
  119. @A123
    @Bashibuzuk

    People in Louisiana have been known to eat nutria. However, I do not believe it is terribly popular.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://i0.wp.com/media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/0_EatNutria.jpg



    https://www.nutria.com/piclib/195.png

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Morton's toes

    They eat it in France too:

    [MORE]

    A French cooking show btter not shown to our vegan friends.

    Also I have read about it and indeed people eat it in Russia, they cook it like a rabbit.

  120. @Bashibuzuk
    @Aedib

    I think there is a reasonable possibility that Ukrainian military will try to recapture the rebel territories somewhere in May or June. Short of an outright Russian military intervention they will probably succeed.

    Replies: @Aedib, @Beckow

    You are right, but the timing could be sooner to take advantage of corona fog. The problem is that Kiev has no reliable way to motivate its soldiers and as long as there is even a possibility that Russia would intervene they will be very tentative. It is hard to win that way unless there is an apriori agreement with Russia. I doubt that is in the cards.

    This has a feeling about it that something completely else might happen. What we have today are the small events before bigger ones.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Beckow


    This has a feeling about it that something completely else might happen. What we have today are the small events before bigger ones.
     
    I have commented above about the potential Turkish action in Donbass, Syria and Nagorny Karabakh. I have also provided a link to a Polish general describing the potential conflict around Kaliningrad.

    If Turkey steps in the conflict in Donbass after an official agreement with Ukraine, then Turkey could go against the LDNR rebels just like Russia went after the Syrian rebels. If Russia retaliates, Turks could close the straits and target Russian troops in both Syria and Karabakh. If Russia goes any further the 5th article of the NATO chart could be used to justify the involvement by other NATO members in the Baltic.

    Recently US bombers flied from Norway accross the Baltic states and all the way to Kaliningrad.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/03/04/american-bombers-blaze-toward-russia-in-provocative-show-of-force/

    NATO also has extensively wargamed the fighting around the Suvalki Gap.

    Replies: @Aedib, @Beckow

  121. @Mr. Hack
    @Bashibuzuk

    People have been known to eat pigeon and squirrel meat too, and rabbit, although popular in Europe is not sold in very many grocery stores in North America. I'm not sure if Asians still eat cat or dog?
    Anybody for bat?...

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist, @Bashibuzuk, @Daniel Chieh

    I haven’t, but this still exists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychee_and_Dog_Meat_Festival

    It is the best casus belli against Chinese existence for many.

    EDIT: looks like it was recently banned

    Amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, China’s Agriculture Ministry and Rural Affairs officially declared that dogs are companions, and should not be treated as livestock

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Daniel Chieh

    IMO, dog-eating is inevitably doomed.

    Two factors: introgression of Western stories valorizing dogs (for example: Tintin). Also, people will make smarter dogs, and people aren't good making distinctions between dumb and smart.

    I also wonder how economical it is compared to pork - probably not as feed efficient.
    __________
    And since this is a Russian/Ukraine thread, I will suggest they will reconcile and at least partly reintegrate, though, it might take many years. I predict after 2060.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Daniel Chieh

    Well, I don't think that you'd trade in Peking Duck for Doggie Stew, would you? :-)

    I very much enjoy Asian foods. I just got through lunching on a delicious bowl of Natto made of course in a Ukrainian style* (Hack's law, you know). Instead of rice, I use buckwheat and add in some deliciously fried up mushroom and onions. Coat with some deep umami soi sauce or teriyaki and voila - international cuisine at it's finest (and very healthy too, fit to be eaten by a health conscious transhumanist ).

    *not to brag, but my friends who've tried this simple but original recipe say that I should patent it.

  122. @A123
    @Bashibuzuk

    People in Louisiana have been known to eat nutria. However, I do not believe it is terribly popular.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://i0.wp.com/media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/0_EatNutria.jpg



    https://www.nutria.com/piclib/195.png

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Morton's toes

    If it’s got four legs, a Coonass will shoot it, clean it, throw it in a pot and make a gravy out of it.

    https://stuffcajunpeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/29-squirrel-hunting/

  123. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Beckow
    @Bashibuzuk

    You are right, but the timing could be sooner to take advantage of corona fog. The problem is that Kiev has no reliable way to motivate its soldiers and as long as there is even a possibility that Russia would intervene they will be very tentative. It is hard to win that way unless there is an apriori agreement with Russia. I doubt that is in the cards.

    This has a feeling about it that something completely else might happen. What we have today are the small events before bigger ones.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    This has a feeling about it that something completely else might happen. What we have today are the small events before bigger ones.

    I have commented above about the potential Turkish action in Donbass, Syria and Nagorny Karabakh. I have also provided a link to a Polish general describing the potential conflict around Kaliningrad.

    If Turkey steps in the conflict in Donbass after an official agreement with Ukraine, then Turkey could go against the LDNR rebels just like Russia went after the Syrian rebels. If Russia retaliates, Turks could close the straits and target Russian troops in both Syria and Karabakh. If Russia goes any further the 5th article of the NATO chart could be used to justify the involvement by other NATO members in the Baltic.

    Recently US bombers flied from Norway accross the Baltic states and all the way to Kaliningrad.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/03/04/american-bombers-blaze-toward-russia-in-provocative-show-of-force/

    NATO also has extensively wargamed the fighting around the Suvalki Gap.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Bashibuzuk


    NATO also has extensively wargamed the fighting around the Suvalki Gap.
     
    And lost in any one. It must go nuclear to avoid defeat.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @Beckow
    @Bashibuzuk

    I agree that we could be looking at some scary scenarios. But the only place where Turkey (Nato) could easily prevail would be Syria. That may be enough of a price to go for it. In all other places short of a nuclear exchange or Russia holding back they would lose. Nobody wants a nuclear exchange, Germans would be particularly squeamish. Closing the straits by Turkey would force Russia to escalate dramatically against Turkey - and believe me, Turkey is very vulnerable and they are traditionally scared of fighting Russia, they always lose. Plus Erdogan is a loose cannon.


    Polish general describing the potential conflict around Kaliningrad.
     
    Let's not mince words: Polish general is a synonym for an idiot with maniacal instincts, he has as much chance of conquering Kaliningrad as their ill-fated Trimorie dream. With Belarus back in the Russian fold, the odds of a move in the Baltic area are down. And Norway is not bombing anybody, they have hard enough time pacifying Oslo migrants and keeping their frustrated post-modern women happy (the two issues are related).

    But I am open to anything. The joker in the deck is that West is seeing the dream of getting Russia's resources - and disposing of Russia once and for all - rapidly dwindling. They missed the window of opportunity and for a generation or two it will be impossible. And then China will rule the roost. That reality combined with deep regrets could make Nato go va banque, after all the elderly and frigid in charge don't have much to look forward to. (While the other side has Margarita Simonian, a true Caucasian jewel.)

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  124. @Bashibuzuk
    @Beckow


    This has a feeling about it that something completely else might happen. What we have today are the small events before bigger ones.
     
    I have commented above about the potential Turkish action in Donbass, Syria and Nagorny Karabakh. I have also provided a link to a Polish general describing the potential conflict around Kaliningrad.

    If Turkey steps in the conflict in Donbass after an official agreement with Ukraine, then Turkey could go against the LDNR rebels just like Russia went after the Syrian rebels. If Russia retaliates, Turks could close the straits and target Russian troops in both Syria and Karabakh. If Russia goes any further the 5th article of the NATO chart could be used to justify the involvement by other NATO members in the Baltic.

    Recently US bombers flied from Norway accross the Baltic states and all the way to Kaliningrad.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/03/04/american-bombers-blaze-toward-russia-in-provocative-show-of-force/

    NATO also has extensively wargamed the fighting around the Suvalki Gap.

    Replies: @Aedib, @Beckow

    NATO also has extensively wargamed the fighting around the Suvalki Gap.

    And lost in any one. It must go nuclear to avoid defeat.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Aedib

    Yes and that is why the internal lack of cohesion in the Russian elites might prove important. At least a part of the elites would no doubt prefer getting rid of Putin and mending the fences with the globalized West than going up in flames. That is why NATO will only move in if they have a 5th column ready to act.

  125. Today, International Women’s Day, I will read a bit of Anna Akhmatova. If perchance you are not familiar with this famous and suffering Russian poet, you might sample a few excerpts online. Thank you.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  126. @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela

    Still obsessed by Ukrainian girls' dresses? You want one just as nice?

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela, @By-tor

    Ukraine had almost no military in 2014-2015.

    ‘Almost no military’ is not the same as none at all. Whose tanks, heavy artillery, Grads and jets were striking Luhansk, Donetsk and small towns within those provinces? Mercenary battalions as Azov ( trained by the US ), Dniepr-1, Dniepr-2 and Tornado carried out terror raids against civilian structures in the contact line villages. The conscription drives by the Poroshenko gov’t led thousands of young adult men and families to flee to Russia as well as the EU. Some 800,000 Ukrainians fled into Russia after the beginning of hostilities against the east by the US-backed Poroshenko regime.

    • Replies: @AP
    @By-tor


    ‘Almost no military’ is not the same as none at all. Whose tanks, heavy artillery, Grads and jets were striking Luhansk, Donetsk and small towns within those provinces
     
    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops in the entire country, and equipment that was largely inoperable. A typical situation is that a tank would be sent out, it would stop working, the crew would abandon it, and the rebels would take it and fix it. It was a Yeltsinite + 14 more years of decay and ruin army. A jet or two could fly, there was some artillery and a few outdated rockets they could take out of the warehouse and use, but functionally there was no military.

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers, 100,000s reserves. Well equipped with functional arms, modern rocket and artillery systems, some of which are equal to the newest Russian ones. Much better trained. Our host posted about military accidents a couple of years ago, a proxy for soldier quality. In Ukraine these have declined from a level even worse than Russia’s under Yeltsin to that of Russia in 2005. By now it is probably better still.

    Mercenary battalions as Azov ( trained by the US ), Dniepr-1, Dniepr-2 and Tornado carried out terror raids
     
    In a situation with no real military, the behavior of a few hundred, perhaps even a thousand or two, volunteers might make for nice headlines but in the overall scheme of things they don’t mean much. The other side also had some volunteers, many of whom were foreigners with military experience in Chechnya.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Shortsword

  127. @Daniel Chieh
    @Mr. Hack

    I haven't, but this still exists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychee_and_Dog_Meat_Festival

    It is the best casus belli against Chinese existence for many.

    EDIT: looks like it was recently banned


    Amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, China's Agriculture Ministry and Rural Affairs officially declared that dogs are companions, and should not be treated as livestock
     

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    IMO, dog-eating is inevitably doomed.

    Two factors: introgression of Western stories valorizing dogs (for example: Tintin). Also, people will make smarter dogs, and people aren’t good making distinctions between dumb and smart.

    I also wonder how economical it is compared to pork – probably not as feed efficient.
    __________
    And since this is a Russian/Ukraine thread, I will suggest they will reconcile and at least partly reintegrate, though, it might take many years. I predict after 2060.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @songbird


    And since this is a Russian/Ukraine thread, I will suggest they will reconcile and at least partly reintegrate, though, it might take many years. I predict after 2060.

     

    https://twitter.com/Ukrainianism/status/1368214673569370115
  128. @A123
    The biggest risk is Quid Pro Joe. Ukraine bribed Hunter Biden (via Burisma) and The Big Guy got his 10%. In this case, Dementia winds up helping the situation. Bribing someone who cannot remember being bribed is not a viable technique.

    Biden's accelerating mental collapse is so bad he cannot answer questions. (1)


    President Joe Biden addressed the House Democrats 2021 Issues Conference on Wednesday and, at the end of the virtual event, said that he would be happy to take questions from Democrats just before the White House bizarrely cut his feed.

    Biden has not held a formal press conference since he entered office six weeks ago on January 20. Instead, he has taken questions from reporters and has issued very limited, often scripted, responses.
     

    Biden really *has* become Ron Burgundy.

    Trying to predict what the current, illegitimate regime will do is almost impossible. Which faction has the upper hand changes quickly.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/03/04/wh-cuts-virtual-feed-after-biden-tells-nance-hes-happy-to-take-questions-from-dems-1037805/
     

    https://youtu.be/mBAmw4HnUlw?t=1

    Replies: @Aslangeo, @Max Payne

    Biden is going to give me my Iran war. I can taste it.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Max Payne

    Given Biden's mental condition, he will rejoin JCPOA and invade Iran. Probably on the same day.

    He is taking advice from Samantha Power.
       Mirror Mirror on the wall...
          Who is the Evil-est of them all?

    It is hard to imagine anything scarier. She is much worse than Nuland.

    PEACE 😇

  129. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Aedib
    @Bashibuzuk


    NATO also has extensively wargamed the fighting around the Suvalki Gap.
     
    And lost in any one. It must go nuclear to avoid defeat.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Yes and that is why the internal lack of cohesion in the Russian elites might prove important. At least a part of the elites would no doubt prefer getting rid of Putin and mending the fences with the globalized West than going up in flames. That is why NATO will only move in if they have a 5th column ready to act.

  130. @Bashibuzuk
    @Beckow


    This has a feeling about it that something completely else might happen. What we have today are the small events before bigger ones.
     
    I have commented above about the potential Turkish action in Donbass, Syria and Nagorny Karabakh. I have also provided a link to a Polish general describing the potential conflict around Kaliningrad.

    If Turkey steps in the conflict in Donbass after an official agreement with Ukraine, then Turkey could go against the LDNR rebels just like Russia went after the Syrian rebels. If Russia retaliates, Turks could close the straits and target Russian troops in both Syria and Karabakh. If Russia goes any further the 5th article of the NATO chart could be used to justify the involvement by other NATO members in the Baltic.

    Recently US bombers flied from Norway accross the Baltic states and all the way to Kaliningrad.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/03/04/american-bombers-blaze-toward-russia-in-provocative-show-of-force/

    NATO also has extensively wargamed the fighting around the Suvalki Gap.

    Replies: @Aedib, @Beckow

    I agree that we could be looking at some scary scenarios. But the only place where Turkey (Nato) could easily prevail would be Syria. That may be enough of a price to go for it. In all other places short of a nuclear exchange or Russia holding back they would lose. Nobody wants a nuclear exchange, Germans would be particularly squeamish. Closing the straits by Turkey would force Russia to escalate dramatically against Turkey – and believe me, Turkey is very vulnerable and they are traditionally scared of fighting Russia, they always lose. Plus Erdogan is a loose cannon.

    Polish general describing the potential conflict around Kaliningrad.

    Let’s not mince words: Polish general is a synonym for an idiot with maniacal instincts, he has as much chance of conquering Kaliningrad as their ill-fated Trimorie dream. With Belarus back in the Russian fold, the odds of a move in the Baltic area are down. And Norway is not bombing anybody, they have hard enough time pacifying Oslo migrants and keeping their frustrated post-modern women happy (the two issues are related).

    But I am open to anything. The joker in the deck is that West is seeing the dream of getting Russia’s resources – and disposing of Russia once and for all – rapidly dwindling. They missed the window of opportunity and for a generation or two it will be impossible. And then China will rule the roost. That reality combined with deep regrets could make Nato go va banque, after all the elderly and frigid in charge don’t have much to look forward to. (While the other side has Margarita Simonian, a true Caucasian jewel.)

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Beckow


    (While the other side has Margarita Simonian, a true Caucasian jewel.)
     
    And Alina Kabaeva the Tsarine of all RusFed lands...

    https://medialeaks.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1-67.jpg
  131. @Max Payne
    @A123

    Biden is going to give me my Iran war. I can taste it.

    Replies: @A123

    Given Biden’s mental condition, he will rejoin JCPOA and invade Iran. Probably on the same day.

    He is taking advice from Samantha Power.
       Mirror Mirror on the wall…
          Who is the Evil-est of them all?

    It is hard to imagine anything scarier. She is much worse than Nuland.

    PEACE 😇

  132. @Daniel Chieh
    @Mr. Hack

    I haven't, but this still exists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychee_and_Dog_Meat_Festival

    It is the best casus belli against Chinese existence for many.

    EDIT: looks like it was recently banned


    Amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, China's Agriculture Ministry and Rural Affairs officially declared that dogs are companions, and should not be treated as livestock
     

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    Well, I don’t think that you’d trade in Peking Duck for Doggie Stew, would you? 🙂

    I very much enjoy Asian foods. I just got through lunching on a delicious bowl of Natto made of course in a Ukrainian style* (Hack’s law, you know). Instead of rice, I use buckwheat and add in some deliciously fried up mushroom and onions. Coat with some deep umami soi sauce or teriyaki and voila – international cuisine at it’s finest (and very healthy too, fit to be eaten by a health conscious transhumanist ).

    *not to brag, but my friends who’ve tried this simple but original recipe say that I should patent it.

  133. @songbird
    @Daniel Chieh

    IMO, dog-eating is inevitably doomed.

    Two factors: introgression of Western stories valorizing dogs (for example: Tintin). Also, people will make smarter dogs, and people aren't good making distinctions between dumb and smart.

    I also wonder how economical it is compared to pork - probably not as feed efficient.
    __________
    And since this is a Russian/Ukraine thread, I will suggest they will reconcile and at least partly reintegrate, though, it might take many years. I predict after 2060.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    And since this is a Russian/Ukraine thread, I will suggest they will reconcile and at least partly reintegrate, though, it might take many years. I predict after 2060.

  134. @Beckow
    @Bashibuzuk

    I agree that we could be looking at some scary scenarios. But the only place where Turkey (Nato) could easily prevail would be Syria. That may be enough of a price to go for it. In all other places short of a nuclear exchange or Russia holding back they would lose. Nobody wants a nuclear exchange, Germans would be particularly squeamish. Closing the straits by Turkey would force Russia to escalate dramatically against Turkey - and believe me, Turkey is very vulnerable and they are traditionally scared of fighting Russia, they always lose. Plus Erdogan is a loose cannon.


    Polish general describing the potential conflict around Kaliningrad.
     
    Let's not mince words: Polish general is a synonym for an idiot with maniacal instincts, he has as much chance of conquering Kaliningrad as their ill-fated Trimorie dream. With Belarus back in the Russian fold, the odds of a move in the Baltic area are down. And Norway is not bombing anybody, they have hard enough time pacifying Oslo migrants and keeping their frustrated post-modern women happy (the two issues are related).

    But I am open to anything. The joker in the deck is that West is seeing the dream of getting Russia's resources - and disposing of Russia once and for all - rapidly dwindling. They missed the window of opportunity and for a generation or two it will be impossible. And then China will rule the roost. That reality combined with deep regrets could make Nato go va banque, after all the elderly and frigid in charge don't have much to look forward to. (While the other side has Margarita Simonian, a true Caucasian jewel.)

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    (While the other side has Margarita Simonian, a true Caucasian jewel.)

    And Alina Kabaeva the Tsarine of all RusFed lands…

  135. AP says:
    @By-tor
    @AP


    Ukraine had almost no military in 2014-2015.

     

    'Almost no military' is not the same as none at all. Whose tanks, heavy artillery, Grads and jets were striking Luhansk, Donetsk and small towns within those provinces? Mercenary battalions as Azov ( trained by the US ), Dniepr-1, Dniepr-2 and Tornado carried out terror raids against civilian structures in the contact line villages. The conscription drives by the Poroshenko gov't led thousands of young adult men and families to flee to Russia as well as the EU. Some 800,000 Ukrainians fled into Russia after the beginning of hostilities against the east by the US-backed Poroshenko regime.

    Replies: @AP

    ‘Almost no military’ is not the same as none at all. Whose tanks, heavy artillery, Grads and jets were striking Luhansk, Donetsk and small towns within those provinces

    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops in the entire country, and equipment that was largely inoperable. A typical situation is that a tank would be sent out, it would stop working, the crew would abandon it, and the rebels would take it and fix it. It was a Yeltsinite + 14 more years of decay and ruin army. A jet or two could fly, there was some artillery and a few outdated rockets they could take out of the warehouse and use, but functionally there was no military.

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers, 100,000s reserves. Well equipped with functional arms, modern rocket and artillery systems, some of which are equal to the newest Russian ones. Much better trained. Our host posted about military accidents a couple of years ago, a proxy for soldier quality. In Ukraine these have declined from a level even worse than Russia’s under Yeltsin to that of Russia in 2005. By now it is probably better still.

    Mercenary battalions as Azov ( trained by the US ), Dniepr-1, Dniepr-2 and Tornado carried out terror raids

    In a situation with no real military, the behavior of a few hundred, perhaps even a thousand or two, volunteers might make for nice headlines but in the overall scheme of things they don’t mean much. The other side also had some volunteers, many of whom were foreigners with military experience in Chechnya.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops
     
    How come? After 2005 Yushenko Orange pro-western revolution? (Maidan numero uno that most people now pretend never happened.) Can you explain that? And explain also why would Maidan II work out differently. The two events were almost identical 10 years apart.

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers...

     

    Right, more targets. How exactly would Ukrainian army fight against an order of magnitude higher technology if Russia chooses to use it? Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours. Then they can move on to infrastructure, government buildings, etc...This would not be an even fight. The only reason it has not happened is because Putin has a soft spot for fellow Ukrainians and doesn't want to massacre recruits. But if Kiev starts it what are the odds that at least some bases - maybe the ones in Lviv - would be immediately destroyed.

    Don't fool yourself and don't play with lives of soldiers. The sanctions would come and go, but the dead Ukrainians would stay dead. And Porky and Ze would almost certainly leave the country.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Aedib, @AP

    , @Shortsword
    @AP


    Well equipped with functional arms, modern rocket and artillery systems, some of which are equal to the newest Russian ones.
     
    Like what?

    Replies: @AP

  136. @AP
    @By-tor


    ‘Almost no military’ is not the same as none at all. Whose tanks, heavy artillery, Grads and jets were striking Luhansk, Donetsk and small towns within those provinces
     
    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops in the entire country, and equipment that was largely inoperable. A typical situation is that a tank would be sent out, it would stop working, the crew would abandon it, and the rebels would take it and fix it. It was a Yeltsinite + 14 more years of decay and ruin army. A jet or two could fly, there was some artillery and a few outdated rockets they could take out of the warehouse and use, but functionally there was no military.

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers, 100,000s reserves. Well equipped with functional arms, modern rocket and artillery systems, some of which are equal to the newest Russian ones. Much better trained. Our host posted about military accidents a couple of years ago, a proxy for soldier quality. In Ukraine these have declined from a level even worse than Russia’s under Yeltsin to that of Russia in 2005. By now it is probably better still.

    Mercenary battalions as Azov ( trained by the US ), Dniepr-1, Dniepr-2 and Tornado carried out terror raids
     
    In a situation with no real military, the behavior of a few hundred, perhaps even a thousand or two, volunteers might make for nice headlines but in the overall scheme of things they don’t mean much. The other side also had some volunteers, many of whom were foreigners with military experience in Chechnya.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Shortsword

    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops

    How come? After 2005 Yushenko Orange pro-western revolution? (Maidan numero uno that most people now pretend never happened.) Can you explain that? And explain also why would Maidan II work out differently. The two events were almost identical 10 years apart.

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers…

    Right, more targets. How exactly would Ukrainian army fight against an order of magnitude higher technology if Russia chooses to use it? Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours. Then they can move on to infrastructure, government buildings, etc…This would not be an even fight. The only reason it has not happened is because Putin has a soft spot for fellow Ukrainians and doesn’t want to massacre recruits. But if Kiev starts it what are the odds that at least some bases – maybe the ones in Lviv – would be immediately destroyed.

    Don’t fool yourself and don’t play with lives of soldiers. The sanctions would come and go, but the dead Ukrainians would stay dead. And Porky and Ze would almost certainly leave the country.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Beckow


    Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours.
     
    That's a lot of noise. I can envision this as possible.

    Replies: @AP, @utu

    , @Aedib
    @Beckow

    I will not be so contemptuous. The Ukrainian army can be a hard nut to crack. If they are motivated and well managed they can put Donbas at risk because the Republics lack strategic deep and manpower. This, in turn may force an open Russian intervention, which may be the main desired outcome. And then, thing will come ugly, because, after strong sanctions, for Russia, moderation will lack sense. If the Russian army decide to unchain insane firepower over the advancing Ukrainian troops, the results will be predictable: thousand Donbass civilian deaths, thousand Ukrainian soldiers’ massacred, Russia under heavy sanctions and the Ukrainian armed forces and infrastructure deleted. May be this is what the Western regimes want.

    Replies: @Beckow, @nokangaroos

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops

    How come? After 2005 Yushenko Orange pro-western revolution? (Maidan numero uno that most people now pretend never happened.) Can you explain that
     
    Degradation seems to have accelerated under Yanukovich but Yushchenko didn't help either.

    And explain also why would Maidan II work out differently. The two events were almost identical 10 years apart.
     
    LOL. Maidan II meant loss of the poison pills of Crimea and Donbas. The country was no longer about evenly split, with the pro-Westerners having slight and tenuous control. The pro-Westerners were now in complete control. Loss of Crimea and the Donbas war also meant that that the idea of war was taken seriously, and a massive effort was made to improve the military. New weapon systems were developed, military was expanded, training improved, equipment repaired. Ukraine will now be building Turkish drones:

    https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/12/21/ukraine-to-buy-turkish-warships-co-produce-drones/

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers…

    Right, more targets. How exactly would Ukrainian army fight against an order of magnitude higher technology if Russia chooses to use it?
     
    The discussion is about military action in Donbas, not all all out war between Russia and Ukraine.

    Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours.
     
    This is just silly. America couldn't do that to Iraq, and the difference between America and Iraq was much greater than between Russia and Ukraine.

    Of course Russia would win a war against Ukraine. It would be rather costly, though, unlike in 2014. And not good for anybody.

    Replies: @Beckow

  137. @AP
    @By-tor


    ‘Almost no military’ is not the same as none at all. Whose tanks, heavy artillery, Grads and jets were striking Luhansk, Donetsk and small towns within those provinces
     
    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops in the entire country, and equipment that was largely inoperable. A typical situation is that a tank would be sent out, it would stop working, the crew would abandon it, and the rebels would take it and fix it. It was a Yeltsinite + 14 more years of decay and ruin army. A jet or two could fly, there was some artillery and a few outdated rockets they could take out of the warehouse and use, but functionally there was no military.

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers, 100,000s reserves. Well equipped with functional arms, modern rocket and artillery systems, some of which are equal to the newest Russian ones. Much better trained. Our host posted about military accidents a couple of years ago, a proxy for soldier quality. In Ukraine these have declined from a level even worse than Russia’s under Yeltsin to that of Russia in 2005. By now it is probably better still.

    Mercenary battalions as Azov ( trained by the US ), Dniepr-1, Dniepr-2 and Tornado carried out terror raids
     
    In a situation with no real military, the behavior of a few hundred, perhaps even a thousand or two, volunteers might make for nice headlines but in the overall scheme of things they don’t mean much. The other side also had some volunteers, many of whom were foreigners with military experience in Chechnya.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Shortsword

    Well equipped with functional arms, modern rocket and artillery systems, some of which are equal to the newest Russian ones.

    Like what?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Shortsword

    Ukraine's Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

    Ukraine has also developed some modern guided artillery shells. Efforts have paid off on the ground in Donbas:

    https://censor.net/ru/video_news/3115875/esli_tak_delo_i_dalshe_poyidt_to_nas_potihonku_perebyut_boyitsy_vsu_unichtojayut_upravlyaemoyi_raketoyi

    Ukraine can't afford to build an air force so it's investing in artillery, missiles and drones.

    Replies: @AP, @Shortsword, @Gerard-Mandela

  138. @Beckow
    @AP


    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops
     
    How come? After 2005 Yushenko Orange pro-western revolution? (Maidan numero uno that most people now pretend never happened.) Can you explain that? And explain also why would Maidan II work out differently. The two events were almost identical 10 years apart.

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers...

     

    Right, more targets. How exactly would Ukrainian army fight against an order of magnitude higher technology if Russia chooses to use it? Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours. Then they can move on to infrastructure, government buildings, etc...This would not be an even fight. The only reason it has not happened is because Putin has a soft spot for fellow Ukrainians and doesn't want to massacre recruits. But if Kiev starts it what are the odds that at least some bases - maybe the ones in Lviv - would be immediately destroyed.

    Don't fool yourself and don't play with lives of soldiers. The sanctions would come and go, but the dead Ukrainians would stay dead. And Porky and Ze would almost certainly leave the country.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Aedib, @AP

    Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours.

    That’s a lot of noise. I can envision this as possible.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Daniel Chieh

    That is more than the USA could do with Iraq. Very wishful thinking.

    Realistically, Russia would obliterate Ukraine's bases with long range missiles in a couple of weeks. Ukraine would damage adjacent parts of Russia with its own missiles during this time (Russian cities such as Belgorod and Russian forward bases are within range of Ukrainian missiles):

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/26648/Ukraine_tests_Vilkha_M_Short_Range_Missile#.YEarY2hKiUk

    Donbas would probably be devastated. A full on war by Russia on Ukraine would of course initiate a new and very harsh Cold War.

    I don't think anyone wants this stuff to happen.

    Replies: @mal, @steinbergfeldwitzcohen, @Daniel Chieh

    , @utu
    @Daniel Chieh

    Рэкетиры are Russia's 5th generation Wunderwaffe. Even several bases were established on foreign territories: Cyprus, Brighton Beach, Karlovy Vary, Nice.

  139. @Beckow
    @AP


    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops
     
    How come? After 2005 Yushenko Orange pro-western revolution? (Maidan numero uno that most people now pretend never happened.) Can you explain that? And explain also why would Maidan II work out differently. The two events were almost identical 10 years apart.

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers...

     

    Right, more targets. How exactly would Ukrainian army fight against an order of magnitude higher technology if Russia chooses to use it? Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours. Then they can move on to infrastructure, government buildings, etc...This would not be an even fight. The only reason it has not happened is because Putin has a soft spot for fellow Ukrainians and doesn't want to massacre recruits. But if Kiev starts it what are the odds that at least some bases - maybe the ones in Lviv - would be immediately destroyed.

    Don't fool yourself and don't play with lives of soldiers. The sanctions would come and go, but the dead Ukrainians would stay dead. And Porky and Ze would almost certainly leave the country.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Aedib, @AP

    I will not be so contemptuous. The Ukrainian army can be a hard nut to crack. If they are motivated and well managed they can put Donbas at risk because the Republics lack strategic deep and manpower. This, in turn may force an open Russian intervention, which may be the main desired outcome. And then, thing will come ugly, because, after strong sanctions, for Russia, moderation will lack sense. If the Russian army decide to unchain insane firepower over the advancing Ukrainian troops, the results will be predictable: thousand Donbass civilian deaths, thousand Ukrainian soldiers’ massacred, Russia under heavy sanctions and the Ukrainian armed forces and infrastructure deleted. May be this is what the Western regimes want.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Aedib

    West - basically Washington, London and Brussels - wants a bloody war between Ukraine and Russia. They will do anything to unleash it and it may not be hard - there are genuine reasons for a war. But having a war will make it worse. Except for the West.

    My contempt is reserved for the morons who like to send others to die, I always respect the people doing the fighting.

    Given that a war may be inevitable, the most rational approach would be to do it quickly and brutally so it is over in a few days or weeks. I agree with you that moderation at that point will make no sense and would make things much worse.

    , @nokangaroos
    @Aedib

    Putin should have annexed the Donbass, Dniepropetrowsk and Odessa oblasts
    when the situation was fluid and created fait accompli.
    Now he will be rewarded with a NATO base on the Azow.

    (Gen. Lee famously quipped that had he known what he was up against he´d have fought to the last man - food for thought; Stonewall Jackson could have ended the war at Bull Run, unfortunately he was a gentleman ... )

  140. AP says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    @Beckow


    Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours.
     
    That's a lot of noise. I can envision this as possible.

    Replies: @AP, @utu

    That is more than the USA could do with Iraq. Very wishful thinking.

    Realistically, Russia would obliterate Ukraine’s bases with long range missiles in a couple of weeks. Ukraine would damage adjacent parts of Russia with its own missiles during this time (Russian cities such as Belgorod and Russian forward bases are within range of Ukrainian missiles):

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/26648/Ukraine_tests_Vilkha_M_Short_Range_Missile#.YEarY2hKiUk

    Donbas would probably be devastated. A full on war by Russia on Ukraine would of course initiate a new and very harsh Cold War.

    I don’t think anyone wants this stuff to happen.

    • Replies: @mal
    @AP


    I don’t think anyone wants this stuff to happen.
     
    Victoria Nuland and Raytheon Corporation will probably agree to disagree with you there.

    Replies: @AP

    , @steinbergfeldwitzcohen
    @AP

    I do think there are those in D.C. and NYC who want destruction. Their abitity to maintain power is directly related to bloodflow and death. Nudelman, Kagan, Sam Powers, and many others, Killary Clinton, are not playing games. It is about blood, gold, power, oil and death. The beneficiaries are KBR, Raytheon, United Defense, Rothschilds Inc. and others.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @AP


    Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours.


     

    You seem to have missed the joke.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/racket

  141. @AP
    @Daniel Chieh

    That is more than the USA could do with Iraq. Very wishful thinking.

    Realistically, Russia would obliterate Ukraine's bases with long range missiles in a couple of weeks. Ukraine would damage adjacent parts of Russia with its own missiles during this time (Russian cities such as Belgorod and Russian forward bases are within range of Ukrainian missiles):

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/26648/Ukraine_tests_Vilkha_M_Short_Range_Missile#.YEarY2hKiUk

    Donbas would probably be devastated. A full on war by Russia on Ukraine would of course initiate a new and very harsh Cold War.

    I don't think anyone wants this stuff to happen.

    Replies: @mal, @steinbergfeldwitzcohen, @Daniel Chieh

    I don’t think anyone wants this stuff to happen.

    Victoria Nuland and Raytheon Corporation will probably agree to disagree with you there.

    • Replies: @AP
    @mal


    “I don’t think anyone wants this stuff to happen.”

    Victoria Nuland and Raytheon Corporation will probably agree to disagree with you there
     
    As do some Russian nationalists here like that Mcfail guy. But no decent person would.
  142. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP


    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops
     
    How come? After 2005 Yushenko Orange pro-western revolution? (Maidan numero uno that most people now pretend never happened.) Can you explain that? And explain also why would Maidan II work out differently. The two events were almost identical 10 years apart.

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers...

     

    Right, more targets. How exactly would Ukrainian army fight against an order of magnitude higher technology if Russia chooses to use it? Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours. Then they can move on to infrastructure, government buildings, etc...This would not be an even fight. The only reason it has not happened is because Putin has a soft spot for fellow Ukrainians and doesn't want to massacre recruits. But if Kiev starts it what are the odds that at least some bases - maybe the ones in Lviv - would be immediately destroyed.

    Don't fool yourself and don't play with lives of soldiers. The sanctions would come and go, but the dead Ukrainians would stay dead. And Porky and Ze would almost certainly leave the country.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Aedib, @AP

    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops

    How come? After 2005 Yushenko Orange pro-western revolution? (Maidan numero uno that most people now pretend never happened.) Can you explain that

    Degradation seems to have accelerated under Yanukovich but Yushchenko didn’t help either.

    And explain also why would Maidan II work out differently. The two events were almost identical 10 years apart.

    LOL. Maidan II meant loss of the poison pills of Crimea and Donbas. The country was no longer about evenly split, with the pro-Westerners having slight and tenuous control. The pro-Westerners were now in complete control. Loss of Crimea and the Donbas war also meant that that the idea of war was taken seriously, and a massive effort was made to improve the military. New weapon systems were developed, military was expanded, training improved, equipment repaired. Ukraine will now be building Turkish drones:

    https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/12/21/ukraine-to-buy-turkish-warships-co-produce-drones/

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers…

    Right, more targets. How exactly would Ukrainian army fight against an order of magnitude higher technology if Russia chooses to use it?

    The discussion is about military action in Donbas, not all all out war between Russia and Ukraine.

    Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours.

    This is just silly. America couldn’t do that to Iraq, and the difference between America and Iraq was much greater than between Russia and Ukraine.

    Of course Russia would win a war against Ukraine. It would be rather costly, though, unlike in 2014. And not good for anybody.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    Americans obliterated Iraqi bases very quickly, airports, storage depos, moving tanks. It is not that hard and it was 20 years ago, today it would be easier. Plus Russia is right next door, many issues US had in Iraq had to with logistics and local support.

    Yes, it would be costly and Donbas and some Russian regions bordering Ukraine could be devastated. On the other hand, knowing that you are fighting a losing war and knowing that you will be held responsible for your targeting decisions could tamper some of Kiev's army enthusiasm for creating mayhem. But there are always fanatics.

    Modern war is by definition dirty, civilians die, anyone involved can be held accountable. When you fight dirty you have to win to avoid consequences. Russia would prevail and that means any Ukrainian officer would face a dilemma how dirty he would be willing to go. Or they can try to run away at the end, but not all will succeed. But I am sure Porky and Ze would be out of there in minutes if the war was lost. And destroying Lvis's factories and infrastructure would be very easy. I don't want it, but why tempt the faith?

    Replies: @AP

  143. @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela

    LOL, you are really desperate to see the dresses of Galician girls whom you are envious of. You keep begging to see them in every post.

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela

    LOL, you are really desperate to see the dresses of Galician girls whom you are envious of. You keep begging to see them in every post.

    That bizarre repeated psychosexual response confirms one thing – that even scum like you are too ashamed to link that precisely because outside of the instantaneous BS, wikipedia copying, fake relatives and copying ridiculously non-credible polls that you have googled…….you truly have absolutely zero knowledge and experience of Ukraine ( not even superficial) and are truly deranged.

    Some people are too naive and trusting, assuming that because you post a million comments here a day on it, then you must be involved – but it is truly shocking what a disturbed cursed in hell clown as yourself attempts to do.

    Just admit it ( and Karlin I would emphasise this is not an incitement for this POS to do it)….. if you reposted that bizarre comment to be subjected to even basic scrutiny, just like if you let go of your anonymity ( including posting as “Polish” something and some other forum that you have spammed LOL – WTF)……then you would commit suicide out of shame.

    Going back to the Deer Hunter – LOL

    but please give another “language lesson”!!

    • Replies: @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela

    Lol you mentioned the Galician dresses again. Look how my brief comment made you crazy as usual

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela, @Mr. Hack

  144. @Aedib
    @Beckow

    I will not be so contemptuous. The Ukrainian army can be a hard nut to crack. If they are motivated and well managed they can put Donbas at risk because the Republics lack strategic deep and manpower. This, in turn may force an open Russian intervention, which may be the main desired outcome. And then, thing will come ugly, because, after strong sanctions, for Russia, moderation will lack sense. If the Russian army decide to unchain insane firepower over the advancing Ukrainian troops, the results will be predictable: thousand Donbass civilian deaths, thousand Ukrainian soldiers’ massacred, Russia under heavy sanctions and the Ukrainian armed forces and infrastructure deleted. May be this is what the Western regimes want.

    Replies: @Beckow, @nokangaroos

    West – basically Washington, London and Brussels – wants a bloody war between Ukraine and Russia. They will do anything to unleash it and it may not be hard – there are genuine reasons for a war. But having a war will make it worse. Except for the West.

    My contempt is reserved for the morons who like to send others to die, I always respect the people doing the fighting.

    Given that a war may be inevitable, the most rational approach would be to do it quickly and brutally so it is over in a few days or weeks. I agree with you that moderation at that point will make no sense and would make things much worse.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
  145. @AP
    @Beckow


    It had about 15,000 (maybe only 5,000) usable troops

    How come? After 2005 Yushenko Orange pro-western revolution? (Maidan numero uno that most people now pretend never happened.) Can you explain that
     
    Degradation seems to have accelerated under Yanukovich but Yushchenko didn't help either.

    And explain also why would Maidan II work out differently. The two events were almost identical 10 years apart.
     
    LOL. Maidan II meant loss of the poison pills of Crimea and Donbas. The country was no longer about evenly split, with the pro-Westerners having slight and tenuous control. The pro-Westerners were now in complete control. Loss of Crimea and the Donbas war also meant that that the idea of war was taken seriously, and a massive effort was made to improve the military. New weapon systems were developed, military was expanded, training improved, equipment repaired. Ukraine will now be building Turkish drones:

    https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/12/21/ukraine-to-buy-turkish-warships-co-produce-drones/

    The Ukrainian military in 2021 is a completely different thing. About 200,000 soldiers…

    Right, more targets. How exactly would Ukrainian army fight against an order of magnitude higher technology if Russia chooses to use it?
     
    The discussion is about military action in Donbas, not all all out war between Russia and Ukraine.

    Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours.
     
    This is just silly. America couldn't do that to Iraq, and the difference between America and Iraq was much greater than between Russia and Ukraine.

    Of course Russia would win a war against Ukraine. It would be rather costly, though, unlike in 2014. And not good for anybody.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Americans obliterated Iraqi bases very quickly, airports, storage depos, moving tanks. It is not that hard and it was 20 years ago, today it would be easier. Plus Russia is right next door, many issues US had in Iraq had to with logistics and local support.

    Yes, it would be costly and Donbas and some Russian regions bordering Ukraine could be devastated. On the other hand, knowing that you are fighting a losing war and knowing that you will be held responsible for your targeting decisions could tamper some of Kiev’s army enthusiasm for creating mayhem. But there are always fanatics.

    Modern war is by definition dirty, civilians die, anyone involved can be held accountable. When you fight dirty you have to win to avoid consequences. Russia would prevail and that means any Ukrainian officer would face a dilemma how dirty he would be willing to go. Or they can try to run away at the end, but not all will succeed. But I am sure Porky and Ze would be out of there in minutes if the war was lost. And destroying Lvis’s factories and infrastructure would be very easy. I don’t want it, but why tempt the faith?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    Americans obliterated Iraqi bases very quickly, airports, storage depos, moving tanks
     
    Yes, and it took a couple of weeks, not 24 hours.

    Plus Russia is right next door, many issues US had in Iraq had to with logistics and local support.
     
    The technological and military gap between Ukraine and Russia is smaller than the one between the USA and Iraq. Russians know this, so they do not have false expectations of a cakewalk, tempting them to go for it.

    Ukrainian officer would face a dilemma how dirty he would be willing to go. Or they can try to run away at the end, but not all will succeed.
     
    In the case of a loss, plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors. As was the case with the Banderists, who in many cases did far worse things than any Ukrainian officer would do.

    Replies: @Beckow

  146. @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    LOL, you are really desperate to see the dresses of Galician girls whom you are envious of. You keep begging to see them in every post.
     
    That bizarre repeated psychosexual response confirms one thing - that even scum like you are too ashamed to link that precisely because outside of the instantaneous BS, wikipedia copying, fake relatives and copying ridiculously non-credible polls that you have googled.......you truly have absolutely zero knowledge and experience of Ukraine ( not even superficial) and are truly deranged.

    Some people are too naive and trusting, assuming that because you post a million comments here a day on it, then you must be involved - but it is truly shocking what a disturbed cursed in hell clown as yourself attempts to do.

    Just admit it ( and Karlin I would emphasise this is not an incitement for this POS to do it)..... if you reposted that bizarre comment to be subjected to even basic scrutiny, just like if you let go of your anonymity ( including posting as "Polish" something and some other forum that you have spammed LOL - WTF)......then you would commit suicide out of shame.

    Going back to the Deer Hunter - LOL

    but please give another "language lesson"!!

    Replies: @AP

    Lol you mentioned the Galician dresses again. Look how my brief comment made you crazy as usual

    • Replies: @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    Lol you mentioned the Galician dresses again. Look how my brief comment made you crazy as usual
     
    So like the pitiful animal you are- more deflection and implicit acceptance of all the accurate claims I make against trash like you ( LOL- "polish " whatever sockpuppet accounts on different forums etc). We're dealing with a serious nutjob


    This is the farcically idiotic position you are in- where you know nothing about Ukraine to the point where ( without Wikipedia to "help" you on things that actually require thinking ) you don't even know what you are even defending your idiot-self against. So you make yourself even more stupid and self-discrediting when attempting to "defend" yourself because you don't know what the problem is because you know f**k all on the subject .

    Galician dresses
     
    LOL. Amid other things, this is one of the main points you retarded idiot - there is nothing in that video that could possibly be called "Galician dresses" or could even be close to being mistaken for one. Of course filth as yourself is too ashamed to repost or link your comment ( despite your extremely creepy "ability" to have quick-to link everybody else's posts from the last 10 years or whatever it is you do in your "life") because it signifies nothing other than a dumb fraud

    What type of weirdo spits on his "own" culture.......but knows nothing about it?

    Replies: @AP

    , @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Geraldine's interest in all manner of dresses was first observed when Gerard was still a child, to the consternation of his doting parents. They thought that they'd get him interested in music and try to get his attention away from female cross dressing, but alas to no avail. To this day, he can be seen taking part in lavish parties where haute couture fashion models put on shows for their wealthy patrons, exhibiting the latest trends in dress fashion design.

    https://clickamericana.com/wp-content/uploads/3-breathtakingly-gorgeous-evening-dresses-from-the-50s-750x1030.jpg

    Can you spot Geraldina in this photo amongst other dress afficianados? All those wasted rubles spent by Geraldina's parents on fruitless piano lessons. :-(

  147. This comments section has turned into a total shitshow.

    • Replies: @Jatt Aryaa
    @4Dchessmaster

    I mean we should just do a separate Khokhol thread where the Slavs can have their ethnic sperging in.

    Rather than every single thread turning into Russia V Ukraine by comment 50.

    Stalin's law: Every Internet comment section will eventually justify the holodomer.



    Since both Pajeets & Slavs ruin the internet, there's your familial camaraderie.

  148. Zelensky will be pressed to start a war because this is what Democrats do. They are the War Party and a Democrat presidency is inconceivable without it. Plus they want to stop North Stream II . That’s not more complicated than that. And a war in Ukraine would damage the relationship between Russia and Germany.

    In this case I hope Putin won’t stop this time , and will beat the shit out of svidomites and banderists and retake the whole Ukraine.

  149. @4Dchessmaster
    This comments section has turned into a total shitshow.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

    I mean we should just do a separate Khokhol thread where the Slavs can have their ethnic sperging in.

    Rather than every single thread turning into Russia V Ukraine by comment 50.

    Stalin’s law: Every Internet comment section will eventually justify the holodomer.

    [MORE]

    Since both Pajeets & Slavs ruin the internet, there’s your familial camaraderie.

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
  150. AP says:
    @Shortsword
    @AP


    Well equipped with functional arms, modern rocket and artillery systems, some of which are equal to the newest Russian ones.
     
    Like what?

    Replies: @AP

    Ukraine’s Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

    Ukraine has also developed some modern guided artillery shells. Efforts have paid off on the ground in Donbas:

    https://censor.net/ru/video_news/3115875/esli_tak_delo_i_dalshe_poyidt_to_nas_potihonku_perebyut_boyitsy_vsu_unichtojayut_upravlyaemoyi_raketoyi

    Ukraine can’t afford to build an air force so it’s investing in artillery, missiles and drones.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AP

    Latest, most advanced Russian guided artillery shells about the same as the new Ukrainian ones:

    It appears that Russians used them much more effectively in Syria than the Donbas forces used them in Donbas.

    Ukraine seems to have achieved parity in this piece of equipment also.

    https://medium.com/dfrlab/the-use-of-krasnopol-artillery-shells-in-ukraine-d185ef4743b7



    In May 2018, media reports citing Ukrainian military intelligence claimed that the armed forces of the Russian Federation delivered a shipment of Krasnopol artillery shells, along with the corresponding laser designator-rangefinders that guide the Krasnopol rounds, to an independent artillery brigade in Russian-backed separatist-controlled Donetsk. Seeing as there is just one such brigade in the armed forces of the so-called “Donetsk People’s Republic” (DNR), this narrows down the units to which these deliveries could have been made.

    The brigade, known as the Guards’ Artillery Brigade ‘Kalmius’ (military unit 08802), is well-equipped to field the Krasnopol, as the unit fields several sorts of 152mm artillery equipment capable of firing this round. In addition to a handful of MSTA-S and 2s1 type self-propelled artillery pieces captured from the Ukrainian Armed Forces, Kalmius is better known for fielding several Russian-supplied MSTA-B towed artillery pieces. The MSTA-B is allegedly also used with the Krasnopol by Russian forces in Syria to conduct high-precision artillery strikes.
    First Evidence of Use in Ukraine

    Shortly after the May 2018 media reports, the first physical evidence of the Krasnopol’s use in Ukraine emerged. On June 23, imagery emerged of fragments from the rear wing section from a Krasnopol round that had allegedly struck a Ukrainian position that was vacated at the time of the strike...

    Comments from online users pointed out a high degree of similarity between the Krasnopol and the Ukrainian domestically produced Kvitnyk (flower) shell. Indeed, the Kvitnyk would have been nearly indistinguishable from the Krasnopol had it not been for the triangular factory markings that are characteristic of the Krasnopol, which the Kvitnyk lacks....

    The employment of the 2k25 Krasnopol laser-guided artillery system in eastern Ukraine is one of several examples of uniquely Russian military technology ending up in the hands of Russian-backed separatists. The DFRLab previously reported on a large ammunition depot on the Ukrainian border known to supply Russian-backed separatist forces. This depot likely served as a holding point for the initial shipment and likely holds stockpiles for future shipments of these or other munitions.

    Although the Krasnopol shipments are significant due to being advanced technology, their employment so far has been limited, with only two documented uses over the past year. Meanwhile, ceasefire violations carried out with Russian-supplied weapons take place on a daily basis in Ukraine.

    Furthermore, the fact that a high-precision weapon failed to achieve its supposed purpose of harming Ukrainian servicemen suggests that it is either ineffective or was employed haphazardly. The Krasnopol has been used to good effect in Syria but may suffer in an environment like eastern Ukraine, where reconnaissance is significantly more limited and targeting support from airpower nonexistent.

    , @Shortsword
    @AP

    Ukraine’s Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

     

    According to the Wikipedia page the Ukrainian missiles fly on an altitude of 20-40km while the Russian ones on 200-600m. So entirely different flight path, the Russian ones fly much lower where there's higher air density. But the information in general seems too lacking to make any comparison.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    Ukraine’s Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

    Ukraine has also developed some modern guided artillery shells. Efforts have paid off on the ground in Donbas:
     
    LOL, two things nowhere near complete in testing and with severe doubts on their production capabilities for either of them. Any idiot official in Banderastan can make a boast about what they could theoretically do, when thinking they are under the cover of being Washington's prostitute.
    Gruzia had a better trained ( much better support from NATO), easier objective, better fought/higher experience and much overall superior position against Abkhazia and South Ossetia/Russian military in 2008 in comparison to Ukropia....and look how that ended.

    All you've done is googled some nonsense, selectively missed all the things saying the complete opposite and then just linked this retarded nonsense ( which doesn't even say what you say it does) without knowing even what it is, such is the freak you are.

    In reality the situation is as it has always been - zero Ukrop capability to harm Russia tactically or strategically with any weapons. Every capability of Russia to incinerate any part of Ukraine and take it over. Guerilla resistance would be as irritable and uncomfortable as it would be for anybody in any poor or rich country - except that just as Ukraine has eaten itself economically, culturally, morally, destroyed it's infrastructure........it would equally eat itself in any "resistance" from corruption ,mass suicides, everybody stabbing each other in the back from the ultra-paranoid environment of practically everybody in Ukraine having familial and economic involvement with Russia and always being subject to claims and counter-claims by their own retards.
    Even Galicians despising their UPA scum in the 1950's and having nothing to do with them, telling the authorities where to find them, has to play some role in their paranoia........as does a millenium of non"resistance" to Russia you cretin.

    Anyway, "resistance" since the beginning started from and depends primarily on orders from Washington ( and at lower-scale from corrupt oligarchs). If you actually knew or followed what anybody in Ukraine, including their most high-positioned officials then you would hear them say how essential Washington support and direction is to everything .

    Replies: @AP

  151. @mal
    @AP


    I don’t think anyone wants this stuff to happen.
     
    Victoria Nuland and Raytheon Corporation will probably agree to disagree with you there.

    Replies: @AP

    “I don’t think anyone wants this stuff to happen.”

    Victoria Nuland and Raytheon Corporation will probably agree to disagree with you there

    As do some Russian nationalists here like that Mcfail guy. But no decent person would.

    • Agree: sher singh
  152. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP

    Americans obliterated Iraqi bases very quickly, airports, storage depos, moving tanks. It is not that hard and it was 20 years ago, today it would be easier. Plus Russia is right next door, many issues US had in Iraq had to with logistics and local support.

    Yes, it would be costly and Donbas and some Russian regions bordering Ukraine could be devastated. On the other hand, knowing that you are fighting a losing war and knowing that you will be held responsible for your targeting decisions could tamper some of Kiev's army enthusiasm for creating mayhem. But there are always fanatics.

    Modern war is by definition dirty, civilians die, anyone involved can be held accountable. When you fight dirty you have to win to avoid consequences. Russia would prevail and that means any Ukrainian officer would face a dilemma how dirty he would be willing to go. Or they can try to run away at the end, but not all will succeed. But I am sure Porky and Ze would be out of there in minutes if the war was lost. And destroying Lvis's factories and infrastructure would be very easy. I don't want it, but why tempt the faith?

    Replies: @AP

    Americans obliterated Iraqi bases very quickly, airports, storage depos, moving tanks

    Yes, and it took a couple of weeks, not 24 hours.

    Plus Russia is right next door, many issues US had in Iraq had to with logistics and local support.

    The technological and military gap between Ukraine and Russia is smaller than the one between the USA and Iraq. Russians know this, so they do not have false expectations of a cakewalk, tempting them to go for it.

    Ukrainian officer would face a dilemma how dirty he would be willing to go. Or they can try to run away at the end, but not all will succeed.

    In the case of a loss, plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors. As was the case with the Banderists, who in many cases did far worse things than any Ukrainian officer would do.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    Of course it wouldn't be a cakewalk, but the basic dynamic of a stronger Russia vs. weaker Ukraine is unchangeable.


    plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors.
     
    Is that the game? Are they doing it for visas and riches in the West? That is entirely possible but it doesn't reflect well on them as humans. And Russia could spoil it for them by destroying the infrastructure, but not moving in to Western Ukraine - it would be harder to be a refugee if your country is not occupied (and you are white). And there are those are don't want to leave.

    The most interesting part is your assertion about who would be better off in the long run, Russian victors at home or Ukrainian losers in sweet US asylum. A few years back that was a no-brainer, but today I am not sure. It is possible that the opportunities in US will decline for younger people enough to be worse than being in Russia. It is certainly heading that way. The lucky ones may head to Canada. We live in interesting times, what was true in 1945 is not true today. I would remind you that false analogies are the biggest error people make when thinking.

    Replies: @AP

  153. @AP
    @Daniel Chieh

    That is more than the USA could do with Iraq. Very wishful thinking.

    Realistically, Russia would obliterate Ukraine's bases with long range missiles in a couple of weeks. Ukraine would damage adjacent parts of Russia with its own missiles during this time (Russian cities such as Belgorod and Russian forward bases are within range of Ukrainian missiles):

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/26648/Ukraine_tests_Vilkha_M_Short_Range_Missile#.YEarY2hKiUk

    Donbas would probably be devastated. A full on war by Russia on Ukraine would of course initiate a new and very harsh Cold War.

    I don't think anyone wants this stuff to happen.

    Replies: @mal, @steinbergfeldwitzcohen, @Daniel Chieh

    I do think there are those in D.C. and NYC who want destruction. Their abitity to maintain power is directly related to bloodflow and death. Nudelman, Kagan, Sam Powers, and many others, Killary Clinton, are not playing games. It is about blood, gold, power, oil and death. The beneficiaries are KBR, Raytheon, United Defense, Rothschilds Inc. and others.

  154. Lol in case of a war between Russia and Ukraine, the war will be one of the fastest and less sanguinary wars ever . I don’t think the majority of ukrainian soldiers come from the West of the Ukraine, so I don’t think they are iodine – deficient and retarded . They would surrender immediately and turn to the enemy like in Crimea. There is no reason for them to fight their own flesh and blood and to die needlessly for a fourth world pseudo state and Anglo Saxon colony . This is what will happen realistically , despite the bravado of some khokhol cyber warriors on the web.

    Ukraine is an African country from the point of view of technology , there is nothing to fear of . And its soldiers suffer from underpayment and chronic lack of motivation .

    • Replies: @AP
    @Maïkl Makfaïl


    the bravado of some khokhol cyber warriors on the web
     
    Nice example of projection.
  155. AP says:
    @AP
    @Shortsword

    Ukraine's Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

    Ukraine has also developed some modern guided artillery shells. Efforts have paid off on the ground in Donbas:

    https://censor.net/ru/video_news/3115875/esli_tak_delo_i_dalshe_poyidt_to_nas_potihonku_perebyut_boyitsy_vsu_unichtojayut_upravlyaemoyi_raketoyi

    Ukraine can't afford to build an air force so it's investing in artillery, missiles and drones.

    Replies: @AP, @Shortsword, @Gerard-Mandela

    Latest, most advanced Russian guided artillery shells about the same as the new Ukrainian ones:

    It appears that Russians used them much more effectively in Syria than the Donbas forces used them in Donbas.

    Ukraine seems to have achieved parity in this piece of equipment also.

    https://medium.com/dfrlab/the-use-of-krasnopol-artillery-shells-in-ukraine-d185ef4743b7

    [MORE]

    In May 2018, media reports citing Ukrainian military intelligence claimed that the armed forces of the Russian Federation delivered a shipment of Krasnopol artillery shells, along with the corresponding laser designator-rangefinders that guide the Krasnopol rounds, to an independent artillery brigade in Russian-backed separatist-controlled Donetsk. Seeing as there is just one such brigade in the armed forces of the so-called “Donetsk People’s Republic” (DNR), this narrows down the units to which these deliveries could have been made.

    The brigade, known as the Guards’ Artillery Brigade ‘Kalmius’ (military unit 08802), is well-equipped to field the Krasnopol, as the unit fields several sorts of 152mm artillery equipment capable of firing this round. In addition to a handful of MSTA-S and 2s1 type self-propelled artillery pieces captured from the Ukrainian Armed Forces, Kalmius is better known for fielding several Russian-supplied MSTA-B towed artillery pieces. The MSTA-B is allegedly also used with the Krasnopol by Russian forces in Syria to conduct high-precision artillery strikes.
    First Evidence of Use in Ukraine

    Shortly after the May 2018 media reports, the first physical evidence of the Krasnopol’s use in Ukraine emerged. On June 23, imagery emerged of fragments from the rear wing section from a Krasnopol round that had allegedly struck a Ukrainian position that was vacated at the time of the strike…

    Comments from online users pointed out a high degree of similarity between the Krasnopol and the Ukrainian domestically produced Kvitnyk (flower) shell. Indeed, the Kvitnyk would have been nearly indistinguishable from the Krasnopol had it not been for the triangular factory markings that are characteristic of the Krasnopol, which the Kvitnyk lacks….

    The employment of the 2k25 Krasnopol laser-guided artillery system in eastern Ukraine is one of several examples of uniquely Russian military technology ending up in the hands of Russian-backed separatists. The DFRLab previously reported on a large ammunition depot on the Ukrainian border known to supply Russian-backed separatist forces. This depot likely served as a holding point for the initial shipment and likely holds stockpiles for future shipments of these or other munitions.

    Although the Krasnopol shipments are significant due to being advanced technology, their employment so far has been limited, with only two documented uses over the past year. Meanwhile, ceasefire violations carried out with Russian-supplied weapons take place on a daily basis in Ukraine.

    Furthermore, the fact that a high-precision weapon failed to achieve its supposed purpose of harming Ukrainian servicemen suggests that it is either ineffective or was employed haphazardly. The Krasnopol has been used to good effect in Syria but may suffer in an environment like eastern Ukraine, where reconnaissance is significantly more limited and targeting support from airpower nonexistent.

  156. @Maïkl Makfaïl
    Lol in case of a war between Russia and Ukraine, the war will be one of the fastest and less sanguinary wars ever . I don't think the majority of ukrainian soldiers come from the West of the Ukraine, so I don't think they are iodine - deficient and retarded . They would surrender immediately and turn to the enemy like in Crimea. There is no reason for them to fight their own flesh and blood and to die needlessly for a fourth world pseudo state and Anglo Saxon colony . This is what will happen realistically , despite the bravado of some khokhol cyber warriors on the web.

    Ukraine is an African country from the point of view of technology , there is nothing to fear of . And its soldiers suffer from underpayment and chronic lack of motivation .

    Replies: @AP

    the bravado of some khokhol cyber warriors on the web

    Nice example of projection.

  157. Generally speaking, my guess was that Ukrainian military power would gain on Russia’s post-2014. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/ukrotriumph/

    IRL, it has – but not as I projected in 2015: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/ **

    There’s not much point in obsessing over the fine details of one weapons systems or another (Wunderwaffen syndrome), it’s spending * efficiency of said spending * manpower that rules the roost at the end of the day.

    [MORE]

    **

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Anatoly Karlin


    but not as I projected in 2015
     
    If not as you projected, then how? The picture you attached is from the 2015 article, and still seems reasonable.

    Replies: @AP, @Anatoly Karlin

  158. @Bashibuzuk
    @Marshal Marlow

    1) Geopolitical : replacing Russia as the principal power broker in the post-Soviet space. Crimea restaured to the Turkish dominance realm. Black sea under reinforced Turkish influence.

    2) Economic: ensuring that the logistics developed under the OBOR in that part or Eurasia are firmly under Turkish control. Become the protector of the Ukrainian pipelines and get access to the Ukrainian fertile agricultural land.

    3) Symbolic and propagandistic: projecting Neo-Ottoman aura in the Islamic World. Payback time after centuries of humiliating defeats in the Russian-Ottoman wars. Demonstration of power projection to the Turkic Stans and the EU. Affirming its value as a NATO member.

    And there is nearly no downside for Turkey: Russia cannot attack Turkey directly if the Turks act under an official agreement with the Ukrainian government. This agreement would be fully legal and diplomatically sound. Just like Russia acting against the Syrian rebels in Syria under an agreement with the Syrian government.

    If Russia retaliates against Turkey, NATO would be able to use the collective security clause and move against Russia. That would be a major escalation, therefore Putin would probably avoid any harsh reaction against Erdogan.

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Majority of One

    We must bear in mind that the Maidan/$oro$/Nuland Khazarian coup was and remains totally illegitimate and cannot be considered as representative of the best interests of the bulk of the Ukrainian people, perhaps 85% of whom are Orthodox, rather than Uniate-Catholic and the 2% or so who are Khazarian Talmudists.

  159. @AP
    @Beckow


    Americans obliterated Iraqi bases very quickly, airports, storage depos, moving tanks
     
    Yes, and it took a couple of weeks, not 24 hours.

    Plus Russia is right next door, many issues US had in Iraq had to with logistics and local support.
     
    The technological and military gap between Ukraine and Russia is smaller than the one between the USA and Iraq. Russians know this, so they do not have false expectations of a cakewalk, tempting them to go for it.

    Ukrainian officer would face a dilemma how dirty he would be willing to go. Or they can try to run away at the end, but not all will succeed.
     
    In the case of a loss, plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors. As was the case with the Banderists, who in many cases did far worse things than any Ukrainian officer would do.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Of course it wouldn’t be a cakewalk, but the basic dynamic of a stronger Russia vs. weaker Ukraine is unchangeable.

    plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors.

    Is that the game? Are they doing it for visas and riches in the West? That is entirely possible but it doesn’t reflect well on them as humans. And Russia could spoil it for them by destroying the infrastructure, but not moving in to Western Ukraine – it would be harder to be a refugee if your country is not occupied (and you are white). And there are those are don’t want to leave.

    The most interesting part is your assertion about who would be better off in the long run, Russian victors at home or Ukrainian losers in sweet US asylum. A few years back that was a no-brainer, but today I am not sure. It is possible that the opportunities in US will decline for younger people enough to be worse than being in Russia. It is certainly heading that way. The lucky ones may head to Canada. We live in interesting times, what was true in 1945 is not true today. I would remind you that false analogies are the biggest error people make when thinking.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    Of course it wouldn’t be a cakewalk, but the basic dynamic of a stronger Russia vs. weaker Ukraine is unchangeable
     
    Sure, but as the cost on invasion increases, the likelihood of invasion decreases. This saves everyone’s lives.

    plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors.

    Is that the game? Are they doing it for visas and riches in the West
     
    No, I was just pointing out that your claim that consequences for alleged war crimes as a deterrent for resistance to a Russian invasion is simply a non-issue.

    The most interesting part is your assertion about who would be better off in the long run, Russian victors at home or Ukrainian losers in sweet US asylum. A few years back that was a no-brainer, but today I am not sure. It is possible that the opportunities in US will decline for younger people enough to be worse than being in Russia
     
    Extremely doubtful. Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France. Canada and France are a lot richer than Italy. Even UK is.

    Even COVID hit US economy less than it hit Russia’s - not to mention Europe.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @mal, @Beckow

  160. @AP
    @Daniel Chieh

    That is more than the USA could do with Iraq. Very wishful thinking.

    Realistically, Russia would obliterate Ukraine's bases with long range missiles in a couple of weeks. Ukraine would damage adjacent parts of Russia with its own missiles during this time (Russian cities such as Belgorod and Russian forward bases are within range of Ukrainian missiles):

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/26648/Ukraine_tests_Vilkha_M_Short_Range_Missile#.YEarY2hKiUk

    Donbas would probably be devastated. A full on war by Russia on Ukraine would of course initiate a new and very harsh Cold War.

    I don't think anyone wants this stuff to happen.

    Replies: @mal, @steinbergfeldwitzcohen, @Daniel Chieh

    Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours.

    You seem to have missed the joke.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/racket

    • Agree: AP
  161. @Daniel Chieh
    @Beckow


    Russia could obliterate all military bases with its rackets in the first 24 hours.
     
    That's a lot of noise. I can envision this as possible.

    Replies: @AP, @utu

    Рэкетиры are Russia’s 5th generation Wunderwaffe. Even several bases were established on foreign territories: Cyprus, Brighton Beach, Karlovy Vary, Nice.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk, mal
  162. @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    The name, yes - but the ideology and cultural projects (began at the end of the 18th and early 19th century. The idea that Little Russia was the real Rus and was different from Great Russia (which was a bunch of Mongols), a Ukrainian nationalist trope, was articulated in the History of Rus written in the 1790s or 1800s and spread around by the Little Russian gentry in the Left Bank::

    http://izbornyk.org.ua/istrus/istrus02.htm

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ

    What are your thoughts on Arnold Toynbee’s views in regards to Ukraine and Russia? :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_J._Toynbee#Views_on_the_post-World_War_I_peace_settlement_and_geopolitical_situation

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. XYZ

    He might have relied too much on Russian sources for his information.

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ

  163. @Anatoly Karlin
    Generally speaking, my guess was that Ukrainian military power would gain on Russia's post-2014. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/ukrotriumph/

    IRL, it has - but not as I projected in 2015: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/ **

    There's not much point in obsessing over the fine details of one weapons systems or another (Wunderwaffen syndrome), it's spending * efficiency of said spending * manpower that rules the roost at the end of the day.



    **

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/russia-vs-ukraine-military-power.png

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    but not as I projected in 2015

    If not as you projected, then how? The picture you attached is from the 2015 article, and still seems reasonable.

    • Replies: @AP
    @reiner Tor

    The chart seems to reflect Ukrainian forces "on paper." As such , the real discrepancy was probably much greater in 2014 (perhaps Russia was 15 times stronger than Ukraine in 2014) than in the chart. But otherwise I agree.

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @reiner Tor

    Actually it might be accurate. I have seen varying claims that the Ukrainian military budget is either 2.5% of GDP (mostly from Western analysts) and 5% of GDP (which seem to still be the official Ukrainian figures).

    EDIT: This report claims 2.5% of GDP to 2016: https://www.osw.waw.pl/sites/default/files/prace_66_ang_best_army_ukraine_net.pdf

    Whereas Wiki reporting official stats says 5% since 2015.

  164. @Aedib
    @Beckow

    I will not be so contemptuous. The Ukrainian army can be a hard nut to crack. If they are motivated and well managed they can put Donbas at risk because the Republics lack strategic deep and manpower. This, in turn may force an open Russian intervention, which may be the main desired outcome. And then, thing will come ugly, because, after strong sanctions, for Russia, moderation will lack sense. If the Russian army decide to unchain insane firepower over the advancing Ukrainian troops, the results will be predictable: thousand Donbass civilian deaths, thousand Ukrainian soldiers’ massacred, Russia under heavy sanctions and the Ukrainian armed forces and infrastructure deleted. May be this is what the Western regimes want.

    Replies: @Beckow, @nokangaroos

    Putin should have annexed the Donbass, Dniepropetrowsk and Odessa oblasts
    when the situation was fluid and created fait accompli.
    Now he will be rewarded with a NATO base on the Azow.

    (Gen. Lee famously quipped that had he known what he was up against he´d have fought to the last man – food for thought; Stonewall Jackson could have ended the war at Bull Run, unfortunately he was a gentleman … )

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
  165. @AP
    @Shortsword

    Ukraine's Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

    Ukraine has also developed some modern guided artillery shells. Efforts have paid off on the ground in Donbas:

    https://censor.net/ru/video_news/3115875/esli_tak_delo_i_dalshe_poyidt_to_nas_potihonku_perebyut_boyitsy_vsu_unichtojayut_upravlyaemoyi_raketoyi

    Ukraine can't afford to build an air force so it's investing in artillery, missiles and drones.

    Replies: @AP, @Shortsword, @Gerard-Mandela

    Ukraine’s Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

    According to the Wikipedia page the Ukrainian missiles fly on an altitude of 20-40km while the Russian ones on 200-600m. So entirely different flight path, the Russian ones fly much lower where there’s higher air density. But the information in general seems too lacking to make any comparison.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Shortsword

    They seem roughly at par, though, as other sources indicate.

  166. @reiner Tor
    @Anatoly Karlin


    but not as I projected in 2015
     
    If not as you projected, then how? The picture you attached is from the 2015 article, and still seems reasonable.

    Replies: @AP, @Anatoly Karlin

    The chart seems to reflect Ukrainian forces “on paper.” As such , the real discrepancy was probably much greater in 2014 (perhaps Russia was 15 times stronger than Ukraine in 2014) than in the chart. But otherwise I agree.

  167. @Shortsword
    @AP

    Ukraine’s Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

     

    According to the Wikipedia page the Ukrainian missiles fly on an altitude of 20-40km while the Russian ones on 200-600m. So entirely different flight path, the Russian ones fly much lower where there's higher air density. But the information in general seems too lacking to make any comparison.

    Replies: @AP

    They seem roughly at par, though, as other sources indicate.

  168. @reiner Tor
    @Anatoly Karlin


    but not as I projected in 2015
     
    If not as you projected, then how? The picture you attached is from the 2015 article, and still seems reasonable.

    Replies: @AP, @Anatoly Karlin

    Actually it might be accurate. I have seen varying claims that the Ukrainian military budget is either 2.5% of GDP (mostly from Western analysts) and 5% of GDP (which seem to still be the official Ukrainian figures).

    EDIT: This report claims 2.5% of GDP to 2016: https://www.osw.waw.pl/sites/default/files/prace_66_ang_best_army_ukraine_net.pdf

    Whereas Wiki reporting official stats says 5% since 2015.

  169. @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela

    Lol you mentioned the Galician dresses again. Look how my brief comment made you crazy as usual

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela, @Mr. Hack

    Lol you mentioned the Galician dresses again. Look how my brief comment made you crazy as usual

    So like the pitiful animal you are- more deflection and implicit acceptance of all the accurate claims I make against trash like you ( LOL- “polish ” whatever sockpuppet accounts on different forums etc). We’re dealing with a serious nutjob

    This is the farcically idiotic position you are in- where you know nothing about Ukraine to the point where ( without Wikipedia to “help” you on things that actually require thinking ) you don’t even know what you are even defending your idiot-self against. So you make yourself even more stupid and self-discrediting when attempting to “defend” yourself because you don’t know what the problem is because you know f**k all on the subject .

    Galician dresses

    LOL. Amid other things, this is one of the main points you retarded idiot – there is nothing in that video that could possibly be called “Galician dresses” or could even be close to being mistaken for one. Of course filth as yourself is too ashamed to repost or link your comment ( despite your extremely creepy “ability” to have quick-to link everybody else’s posts from the last 10 years or whatever it is you do in your “life”) because it signifies nothing other than a dumb fraud

    What type of weirdo spits on his “own” culture…….but knows nothing about it?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela

    Another mountain of desperate screaming because you were triggered by Galician dresses.

    It’s cute that you think I have a Polish sock puppet somewhere. So there must be more desperate screaming by you on some random other forum, at a poster because you falsely believe he is me.

  170. @AP
    @Shortsword

    Ukraine's Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

    Ukraine has also developed some modern guided artillery shells. Efforts have paid off on the ground in Donbas:

    https://censor.net/ru/video_news/3115875/esli_tak_delo_i_dalshe_poyidt_to_nas_potihonku_perebyut_boyitsy_vsu_unichtojayut_upravlyaemoyi_raketoyi

    Ukraine can't afford to build an air force so it's investing in artillery, missiles and drones.

    Replies: @AP, @Shortsword, @Gerard-Mandela

    Ukraine’s Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

    Ukraine has also developed some modern guided artillery shells. Efforts have paid off on the ground in Donbas:

    LOL, two things nowhere near complete in testing and with severe doubts on their production capabilities for either of them. Any idiot official in Banderastan can make a boast about what they could theoretically do, when thinking they are under the cover of being Washington’s prostitute.
    Gruzia had a better trained ( much better support from NATO), easier objective, better fought/higher experience and much overall superior position against Abkhazia and South Ossetia/Russian military in 2008 in comparison to Ukropia….and look how that ended.

    All you’ve done is googled some nonsense, selectively missed all the things saying the complete opposite and then just linked this retarded nonsense ( which doesn’t even say what you say it does) without knowing even what it is, such is the freak you are.

    In reality the situation is as it has always been – zero Ukrop capability to harm Russia tactically or strategically with any weapons. Every capability of Russia to incinerate any part of Ukraine and take it over. Guerilla resistance would be as irritable and uncomfortable as it would be for anybody in any poor or rich country – except that just as Ukraine has eaten itself economically, culturally, morally, destroyed it’s infrastructure……..it would equally eat itself in any “resistance” from corruption ,mass suicides, everybody stabbing each other in the back from the ultra-paranoid environment of practically everybody in Ukraine having familial and economic involvement with Russia and always being subject to claims and counter-claims by their own retards.
    Even Galicians despising their UPA scum in the 1950’s and having nothing to do with them, telling the authorities where to find them, has to play some role in their paranoia……..as does a millenium of non”resistance” to Russia you cretin.

    Anyway, “resistance” since the beginning started from and depends primarily on orders from Washington ( and at lower-scale from corrupt oligarchs). If you actually knew or followed what anybody in Ukraine, including their most high-positioned officials then you would hear them say how essential Washington support and direction is to everything .

    • Replies: @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela


    LOL, two things nowhere near complete in testing and with severe doubts on their production capabilities for either of them
     
    Production and entrance into service of Villa began in November 2019:

    https://polygonjournal.com/2019/11/15/ukraine-army-receives-first-serial-batch-of-rockets-for-vilkha-mlr-systems/
  171. @Bardon Kaldian
    @AP

    I also don't know anything similar. It seems that these people think of themselves as regional Russians, their regional identity being Ukrainian. But- this is nonsense. Ukrainians are a full fledged nation with this & not that identity symbols, culture, history, a sense of destiny - and these "Ukrainians" don't fit there.

    Language need not be the prime identity signifier- for instance, although the Irish had been forced to adopt, the majority of them, English language- they did not think of themselves as "English". When an Irishman says "we", he does not mean Anglo-Saxon king Alfred, the Battle of Hastings, Spanish Armada or Queen Elizabeth 1, 2 or anything similar.

    Israeli Jews have, of course, primary Jewish loyalty, so those Jews who immigrated from Arabic countries have ditched their mother tongue, Arabic, for Hebrew. Hebrew is an important historical language, but Arabic is a world language. And yet, they switched to a less important new language simply because it is the language of their people.

    Similar to Macedonians, who are a separate South Slavic people & neither Bulgarians nor Greeks (whatever the word "Macedonia" may have signified 1000 or 2000 or 3000years ago).

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela

    Language need not be the prime identity signifier- for instance, although the Irish had been forced to adopt, the majority of them, English language- they did not think of themselves as “English”. When an Irishman says “we”, he does not mean Anglo-Saxon king Alfred, the Battle of Hastings, Spanish Armada or Queen Elizabeth 1, 2 or anything similar.

    So when a Ukrainian does “not” mean Alexander 2nd, Catherine the Great, Nicholas the 1st , Kursk, Stalingrad, Battle of Poltava , Siege(s) of Sevastopol and other events and people intrinsically linked to his culture and national consciousness…….then who else does he mean you laughable cretin? LOL – what a stupid comment to make.

    Rakhmaninov, Gogol, Pushkin, Prokofiev, Bulgakov, Zhukov and an ocean of others – Russian world and intrinsically part of the culture of every “Ukrainian”. Outside of that all you have are fringe, moderately successful idiots who were only famous in the sense they were moderately famous within the Russian Empire masqueraded as Ukrainian “nationalist” heroes. Outside of that all there are is sadist losers retrospectively praised and the Soris-inspired ukrop equivalents of ” 3 Black female scientists sent man to the moon”

    Irish potato famine – a huge event permanently stitched into Irish history. A huge part of consciousness of Irish diaspora all over the world as much of their exodus occurred because of it, a direct connection between now and then…….an event that caused such a huge demographic catastrophe in Ireland that it ( unbelievably) has still not even been recovered in population numbers from now – 160 years later!

    Golodomor – an event with absolutely zero part in Ukraine national consciousness in 1991, 1994 or even many years later. Nobody actually in Ukraine post-USSR gave a f**k or viewed it as something that targeted them ( just like there was no major movement in Ukraine for the retarded claims that Stalin was against them – particularly as there had just been 40 years of his name not promoted in USSR and extensive renaming, removal and education change from Khrushchev of all things relating to him, and official condemnation of nearly all his policies )
    An event with absolutely ZERO to do with scumbag fantasist “diaspora” who did not even live on those lands that experienced that famine! (and who suffered plenty of actual famines before then in their own reject land)
    An event ( again, I am talking about the World Series, William Randolph Heart Golodomor) where the demographic “collapse” caused by it took…….3 seconds to recover from

    Ireland , the Emerald Island – a country quite literally defined by it’s geography

    Ukraine – a country quite literally in it’s name undefined by it’s geography, a totally schizophrenic, artificial construct

    Ireland – a nation where songs , poems, writings of lost battles or alleged sins by the British are known by most of the population and said or sung without even intention to be insulting to the British but just because these are songs of Irish culture

    Ukraine – a country where f**k all of these songs, poems, art against Russian “occupation” or “imperialism” exist

    Ireland – where it’s folk traditions and culture are entirely unlinked to British culture ( well, English)

    Ukraine – where they are all interlinked and derivative and very similar to all through of Russia and Belarus

    Is it just me or was London not founded by an Irishman? LOL

    Ukrainians are a full fledged nation with this & not that identity symbols, culture, history, a sense of destiny

    LOL- WTF? What a dumb POS

    a sense of destiny

    Quite literally LMAO. I know you’re be a typical anti-Russian CIA scumbag coward – but at least have the courage to explain what exactly that nonsense means. WHAT “sense of denstiny” ? To be used as a 2-dollar whore in western fights against Russia?

    So don’t be a coward…….where and what is this “destiny”?

  172. @Mr. XYZ
    @AP

    What are your thoughts on Arnold Toynbee's views in regards to Ukraine and Russia? :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_J._Toynbee#Views_on_the_post-World_War_I_peace_settlement_and_geopolitical_situation

    Replies: @AP

    He might have relied too much on Russian sources for his information.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    @AP

    Maybe, but at the same time, his idea to make Ukrainian an official language of the Russian Empire actually does appear to have made a lot of sense. If Russian would still ended up being much more dynamic in spite of this, then this would show the "superiority" of the Russian language once and for all--and would of course also help unite the Russian and Ukrainian peoples into one body politic.

    By the way, off-topic, but in regards to the Donbass, why exactly don't you think that Putin helped Strelkov and his gang back when they still controlled Sloviansk? Why wait until after they had already lost Sloviansk and were near the verge of complete and total defeat before deciding to actually help the Donbass separatists?

    Also, do you consider the Battle of Sloviansk to be the equivalent of the Battle of the Alamo for the Donbass separatists?

    Replies: @JL

  173. @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    Ukraine’s Vilha short range missiles are comparable to the most updated version of Russian Smerch (Tornado-S), that Russia uses:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%B0_(%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%97%D0%9E)

    The Ukrainian version is faster.

    Ukraine has also developed some modern guided artillery shells. Efforts have paid off on the ground in Donbas:
     
    LOL, two things nowhere near complete in testing and with severe doubts on their production capabilities for either of them. Any idiot official in Banderastan can make a boast about what they could theoretically do, when thinking they are under the cover of being Washington's prostitute.
    Gruzia had a better trained ( much better support from NATO), easier objective, better fought/higher experience and much overall superior position against Abkhazia and South Ossetia/Russian military in 2008 in comparison to Ukropia....and look how that ended.

    All you've done is googled some nonsense, selectively missed all the things saying the complete opposite and then just linked this retarded nonsense ( which doesn't even say what you say it does) without knowing even what it is, such is the freak you are.

    In reality the situation is as it has always been - zero Ukrop capability to harm Russia tactically or strategically with any weapons. Every capability of Russia to incinerate any part of Ukraine and take it over. Guerilla resistance would be as irritable and uncomfortable as it would be for anybody in any poor or rich country - except that just as Ukraine has eaten itself economically, culturally, morally, destroyed it's infrastructure........it would equally eat itself in any "resistance" from corruption ,mass suicides, everybody stabbing each other in the back from the ultra-paranoid environment of practically everybody in Ukraine having familial and economic involvement with Russia and always being subject to claims and counter-claims by their own retards.
    Even Galicians despising their UPA scum in the 1950's and having nothing to do with them, telling the authorities where to find them, has to play some role in their paranoia........as does a millenium of non"resistance" to Russia you cretin.

    Anyway, "resistance" since the beginning started from and depends primarily on orders from Washington ( and at lower-scale from corrupt oligarchs). If you actually knew or followed what anybody in Ukraine, including their most high-positioned officials then you would hear them say how essential Washington support and direction is to everything .

    Replies: @AP

    LOL, two things nowhere near complete in testing and with severe doubts on their production capabilities for either of them

    Production and entrance into service of Villa began in November 2019:

    https://polygonjournal.com/2019/11/15/ukraine-army-receives-first-serial-batch-of-rockets-for-vilkha-mlr-systems/

  174. @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    Lol you mentioned the Galician dresses again. Look how my brief comment made you crazy as usual
     
    So like the pitiful animal you are- more deflection and implicit acceptance of all the accurate claims I make against trash like you ( LOL- "polish " whatever sockpuppet accounts on different forums etc). We're dealing with a serious nutjob


    This is the farcically idiotic position you are in- where you know nothing about Ukraine to the point where ( without Wikipedia to "help" you on things that actually require thinking ) you don't even know what you are even defending your idiot-self against. So you make yourself even more stupid and self-discrediting when attempting to "defend" yourself because you don't know what the problem is because you know f**k all on the subject .

    Galician dresses
     
    LOL. Amid other things, this is one of the main points you retarded idiot - there is nothing in that video that could possibly be called "Galician dresses" or could even be close to being mistaken for one. Of course filth as yourself is too ashamed to repost or link your comment ( despite your extremely creepy "ability" to have quick-to link everybody else's posts from the last 10 years or whatever it is you do in your "life") because it signifies nothing other than a dumb fraud

    What type of weirdo spits on his "own" culture.......but knows nothing about it?

    Replies: @AP

    Another mountain of desperate screaming because you were triggered by Galician dresses.

    It’s cute that you think I have a Polish sock puppet somewhere. So there must be more desperate screaming by you on some random other forum, at a poster because you falsely believe he is me.

  175. @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela

    Lol you mentioned the Galician dresses again. Look how my brief comment made you crazy as usual

    Replies: @Gerard-Mandela, @Mr. Hack

    Geraldine’s interest in all manner of dresses was first observed when Gerard was still a child, to the consternation of his doting parents. They thought that they’d get him interested in music and try to get his attention away from female cross dressing, but alas to no avail. To this day, he can be seen taking part in lavish parties where haute couture fashion models put on shows for their wealthy patrons, exhibiting the latest trends in dress fashion design.

    Can you spot Geraldina in this photo amongst other dress afficianados? All those wasted rubles spent by Geraldina’s parents on fruitless piano lessons. 🙁

    • LOL: Kent Nationalist, AP
  176. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP

    Of course it wouldn't be a cakewalk, but the basic dynamic of a stronger Russia vs. weaker Ukraine is unchangeable.


    plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors.
     
    Is that the game? Are they doing it for visas and riches in the West? That is entirely possible but it doesn't reflect well on them as humans. And Russia could spoil it for them by destroying the infrastructure, but not moving in to Western Ukraine - it would be harder to be a refugee if your country is not occupied (and you are white). And there are those are don't want to leave.

    The most interesting part is your assertion about who would be better off in the long run, Russian victors at home or Ukrainian losers in sweet US asylum. A few years back that was a no-brainer, but today I am not sure. It is possible that the opportunities in US will decline for younger people enough to be worse than being in Russia. It is certainly heading that way. The lucky ones may head to Canada. We live in interesting times, what was true in 1945 is not true today. I would remind you that false analogies are the biggest error people make when thinking.

    Replies: @AP

    Of course it wouldn’t be a cakewalk, but the basic dynamic of a stronger Russia vs. weaker Ukraine is unchangeable

    Sure, but as the cost on invasion increases, the likelihood of invasion decreases. This saves everyone’s lives.

    plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors.

    Is that the game? Are they doing it for visas and riches in the West

    No, I was just pointing out that your claim that consequences for alleged war crimes as a deterrent for resistance to a Russian invasion is simply a non-issue.

    The most interesting part is your assertion about who would be better off in the long run, Russian victors at home or Ukrainian losers in sweet US asylum. A few years back that was a no-brainer, but today I am not sure. It is possible that the opportunities in US will decline for younger people enough to be worse than being in Russia

    Extremely doubtful. Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France. Canada and France are a lot richer than Italy. Even UK is.

    Even COVID hit US economy less than it hit Russia’s – not to mention Europe.

    • Replies: @Shortsword
    @AP


    Even COVID hit US economy less than it hit Russia’s
     
    Not true. But the difference was pretty marginal.

    Replies: @AP

    , @mal
    @AP


    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years.
     
    Being as rich as Italy without Italian debt load and EU constraints is a pretty good goal to aim for.

    Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France. Canada and France are a lot richer than Italy. Even UK is.
     
    Nominally, yes. US demographics will turn for the worse in about six years (last time US had above replacement TFR and migrate rate was 2007, so i figure by 2027 shortages of breeding age people will start driving consumption down).

    But it will come down to culture. US will have woke religion running wild, and very unequal concentration of wealth. Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability. Depending on how US chooses to play this, it can be very bad for young people. Unless US drives interest rates negative to extinguish it, my kids will have better future in Russia than US, if they choose to go.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Bill Jones

    , @Beckow
    @AP


    ....consequences for alleged war crimes as a deterrent for resistance to a Russian invasion is simply a non-issue.
     
    A non-issue would be zero. It is not zero, some won't leave and some will worry that they would fail to leave. Many have properties to protect. It is in the back of their minds as they make small decisions.

    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France.
     
    Not even close. In the long run countries' prospects are dictated by resources and size-quality of their populations. US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality. Italy and France have few resources and a massive influx of Third World migrants. That will show up in their quality of life.

    You need to compare the prospects for younger people, not the elderly living off previous wealth. Very few Ukie refugees would be given a sinecure, like e.g. Skripal in UK.

    There is also the debt - we can speculate how much longer it will grow or how it will finally end, but the massive debt is an issue for the West. Debt is a claim on the same assets by two or more people, it multiplies the sense of well-being and in manageable quantities it is good. Today's numbers in US or Italy-France are too big - e.g. they would probably default if interest rates would go to 5-6%. With zero interest rates they can stretch it out, but without a massive increase in young people incomes or double-digit inflation it cannot be solved. Russia for all its problems has almost no debt. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, we will see.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

  177. @AP
    @Beckow


    Of course it wouldn’t be a cakewalk, but the basic dynamic of a stronger Russia vs. weaker Ukraine is unchangeable
     
    Sure, but as the cost on invasion increases, the likelihood of invasion decreases. This saves everyone’s lives.

    plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors.

    Is that the game? Are they doing it for visas and riches in the West
     
    No, I was just pointing out that your claim that consequences for alleged war crimes as a deterrent for resistance to a Russian invasion is simply a non-issue.

    The most interesting part is your assertion about who would be better off in the long run, Russian victors at home or Ukrainian losers in sweet US asylum. A few years back that was a no-brainer, but today I am not sure. It is possible that the opportunities in US will decline for younger people enough to be worse than being in Russia
     
    Extremely doubtful. Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France. Canada and France are a lot richer than Italy. Even UK is.

    Even COVID hit US economy less than it hit Russia’s - not to mention Europe.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @mal, @Beckow

    Even COVID hit US economy less than it hit Russia’s

    Not true. But the difference was pretty marginal.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Shortsword

    You are right. First thing in google showed 2.2% decline for USA but it was 3.5%. Russia was 3.1% decline.

  178. mal says:
    @AP
    @Beckow


    Of course it wouldn’t be a cakewalk, but the basic dynamic of a stronger Russia vs. weaker Ukraine is unchangeable
     
    Sure, but as the cost on invasion increases, the likelihood of invasion decreases. This saves everyone’s lives.

    plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors.

    Is that the game? Are they doing it for visas and riches in the West
     
    No, I was just pointing out that your claim that consequences for alleged war crimes as a deterrent for resistance to a Russian invasion is simply a non-issue.

    The most interesting part is your assertion about who would be better off in the long run, Russian victors at home or Ukrainian losers in sweet US asylum. A few years back that was a no-brainer, but today I am not sure. It is possible that the opportunities in US will decline for younger people enough to be worse than being in Russia
     
    Extremely doubtful. Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France. Canada and France are a lot richer than Italy. Even UK is.

    Even COVID hit US economy less than it hit Russia’s - not to mention Europe.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @mal, @Beckow

    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years.

    Being as rich as Italy without Italian debt load and EU constraints is a pretty good goal to aim for.

    Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France. Canada and France are a lot richer than Italy. Even UK is.

    Nominally, yes. US demographics will turn for the worse in about six years (last time US had above replacement TFR and migrate rate was 2007, so i figure by 2027 shortages of breeding age people will start driving consumption down).

    But it will come down to culture. US will have woke religion running wild, and very unequal concentration of wealth. Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability. Depending on how US chooses to play this, it can be very bad for young people. Unless US drives interest rates negative to extinguish it, my kids will have better future in Russia than US, if they choose to go.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @mal


    Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability.
     
    I don't think anyone really intends on one day paying that debt.

    Replies: @mal, @Levtraro

    , @Bill Jones
    @mal


    Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability.
     
    Thank God none of them are White.
  179. @mal
    @AP


    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years.
     
    Being as rich as Italy without Italian debt load and EU constraints is a pretty good goal to aim for.

    Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France. Canada and France are a lot richer than Italy. Even UK is.
     
    Nominally, yes. US demographics will turn for the worse in about six years (last time US had above replacement TFR and migrate rate was 2007, so i figure by 2027 shortages of breeding age people will start driving consumption down).

    But it will come down to culture. US will have woke religion running wild, and very unequal concentration of wealth. Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability. Depending on how US chooses to play this, it can be very bad for young people. Unless US drives interest rates negative to extinguish it, my kids will have better future in Russia than US, if they choose to go.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Bill Jones

    Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability.

    I don’t think anyone really intends on one day paying that debt.

    • Replies: @mal
    @Bashibuzuk

    That's why i said it will come down to culture. US always inflated away its debt liabilities, but that was easy to do in inflationary economy. Like we do now - set interest rate to zero and watch 2% inflation take care of that debt.

    With tanking demographics however, economy will be deflationary and zero interest won't cut it anymore. There is significant resistance to negative interest rates in US, with good reasons. But there us no other way out.

    Without inflation, even a small monthly payment on that $8.5 million will be devastating to the young. So we will see what worldview prevails.

    , @Levtraro
    @Bashibuzuk

    If that were true or commonly believed, there would be a run on US debt, and that is not happening. Owners of US debt, knowing a lot more that you, are expecting to be paid or to sell it to someone expecting to be paid.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @mal, @Beckow

  180. mal says:
    @Bashibuzuk
    @mal


    Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability.
     
    I don't think anyone really intends on one day paying that debt.

    Replies: @mal, @Levtraro

    That’s why i said it will come down to culture. US always inflated away its debt liabilities, but that was easy to do in inflationary economy. Like we do now – set interest rate to zero and watch 2% inflation take care of that debt.

    With tanking demographics however, economy will be deflationary and zero interest won’t cut it anymore. There is significant resistance to negative interest rates in US, with good reasons. But there us no other way out.

    Without inflation, even a small monthly payment on that $8.5 million will be devastating to the young. So we will see what worldview prevails.

  181. @Shortsword
    @AP


    Even COVID hit US economy less than it hit Russia’s
     
    Not true. But the difference was pretty marginal.

    Replies: @AP

    You are right. First thing in google showed 2.2% decline for USA but it was 3.5%. Russia was 3.1% decline.

  182. @Bashibuzuk
    @mal


    Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability.
     
    I don't think anyone really intends on one day paying that debt.

    Replies: @mal, @Levtraro

    If that were true or commonly believed, there would be a run on US debt, and that is not happening. Owners of US debt, knowing a lot more that you, are expecting to be paid or to sell it to someone expecting to be paid.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Levtraro

    I don't see how we can reasonably expect these amounts to be paid. And I am certain that I am not the only one to think that. Anything you want to share with us on the manner these amounts will be paid?

    Replies: @Levtraro

    , @mal
    @Levtraro

    Well, foreigners have already checked out, net foreign purchasing of US Treasurys has been minuscule since like 2014. Share of foreign owned US debt is plunging. But good riddance anyway because foreigners simply don't have the kind of money required to fund US government deficit. Only US institutions (including Federal Reserve) are relevant.

    US debt is traded as a growth stock based on capital appreciation and is used for currency hedging, it is no longer a viable interest bearing instrument.

    In a sense, there is already a run on US debt as displayed by Federal Reserve balance sheet growth - that's the debt that can't find home on the private market.

    With all that said, a lot of people are stuck in old fashioned mindset and still expect to be paid for some reason. If that mindset prevails in a deflationary environment, US will have very bleak future. Great Depression level bleak.

    Replies: @Levtraro

    , @Beckow
    @Levtraro


    ...If that were true or commonly believed, there would be a run on US debt
     
    A run requires that you have somewhere to run. Given the quantities involved that is not possible. At this point US treasuries serve as a storage place for money given lack of alternatives. If a credible alternative appears that could change.

    The US living standards depend on preventing an alternative to US treasury debt. That is at the heart of current US policies. In the long run that is a tough place to be, the numbers are getting too big.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @A123

  183. @Levtraro
    @Bashibuzuk

    If that were true or commonly believed, there would be a run on US debt, and that is not happening. Owners of US debt, knowing a lot more that you, are expecting to be paid or to sell it to someone expecting to be paid.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @mal, @Beckow

    I don’t see how we can reasonably expect these amounts to be paid. And I am certain that I am not the only one to think that. Anything you want to share with us on the manner these amounts will be paid?

    • Replies: @Levtraro
    @Bashibuzuk


    I don’t see how we can reasonably expect these amounts to be paid.
     
    Well, US gov't debt is constantly being paid, it is being paid as we speak, some of that debt has maturities of just weeks. The debt grows because the rate of erosion is slower than the rate of accretion, not because it is not being paid.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @mal

  184. mal says:
    @Levtraro
    @Bashibuzuk

    If that were true or commonly believed, there would be a run on US debt, and that is not happening. Owners of US debt, knowing a lot more that you, are expecting to be paid or to sell it to someone expecting to be paid.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @mal, @Beckow

    Well, foreigners have already checked out, net foreign purchasing of US Treasurys has been minuscule since like 2014. Share of foreign owned US debt is plunging. But good riddance anyway because foreigners simply don’t have the kind of money required to fund US government deficit. Only US institutions (including Federal Reserve) are relevant.

    US debt is traded as a growth stock based on capital appreciation and is used for currency hedging, it is no longer a viable interest bearing instrument.

    In a sense, there is already a run on US debt as displayed by Federal Reserve balance sheet growth – that’s the debt that can’t find home on the private market.

    With all that said, a lot of people are stuck in old fashioned mindset and still expect to be paid for some reason. If that mindset prevails in a deflationary environment, US will have very bleak future. Great Depression level bleak.

    • Thanks: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Levtraro
    @mal

    As of today the second largest proportion of US treasuries own by the public is held by foreign agents, so no, they haven't checked out, and there is no run, in no sense whatsoever: the FR is indeed one of the big holders since the 2008 financial crisis but that is not a run, most call it QE.

    Replies: @mal

  185. @AP
    @Beckow


    Of course it wouldn’t be a cakewalk, but the basic dynamic of a stronger Russia vs. weaker Ukraine is unchangeable
     
    Sure, but as the cost on invasion increases, the likelihood of invasion decreases. This saves everyone’s lives.

    plenty would escape and would get asylum in the West and their kids in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. would be a lot richer than those of the Russian victors.

    Is that the game? Are they doing it for visas and riches in the West
     
    No, I was just pointing out that your claim that consequences for alleged war crimes as a deterrent for resistance to a Russian invasion is simply a non-issue.

    The most interesting part is your assertion about who would be better off in the long run, Russian victors at home or Ukrainian losers in sweet US asylum. A few years back that was a no-brainer, but today I am not sure. It is possible that the opportunities in US will decline for younger people enough to be worse than being in Russia
     
    Extremely doubtful. Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France. Canada and France are a lot richer than Italy. Even UK is.

    Even COVID hit US economy less than it hit Russia’s - not to mention Europe.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @mal, @Beckow

    ….consequences for alleged war crimes as a deterrent for resistance to a Russian invasion is simply a non-issue.

    A non-issue would be zero. It is not zero, some won’t leave and some will worry that they would fail to leave. Many have properties to protect. It is in the back of their minds as they make small decisions.

    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France.

    Not even close. In the long run countries’ prospects are dictated by resources and size-quality of their populations. US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality. Italy and France have few resources and a massive influx of Third World migrants. That will show up in their quality of life.

    You need to compare the prospects for younger people, not the elderly living off previous wealth. Very few Ukie refugees would be given a sinecure, like e.g. Skripal in UK.

    There is also the debt – we can speculate how much longer it will grow or how it will finally end, but the massive debt is an issue for the West. Debt is a claim on the same assets by two or more people, it multiplies the sense of well-being and in manageable quantities it is good. Today’s numbers in US or Italy-France are too big – e.g. they would probably default if interest rates would go to 5-6%. With zero interest rates they can stretch it out, but without a massive increase in young people incomes or double-digit inflation it cannot be solved. Russia for all its problems has almost no debt. Don’t count your chickens before they hatch, we will see.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality.
     
    ??

    At the beginning of 2018, the population was 318M and two years later at the beginning of 2020 it rose to a modest 321M. I would guess that after a year of the coronavirus and Trump being president the rise was even less so. Also, a certain percentage of those gaining entrance to the US are entrepreneurial types and higher IQ individuals that take on higher paying professional positions. Your analysis seems to be missing some accuracy and validity.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    It is not zero, some won’t leave and some will worry that they would fail to leave. Many have properties to protect. It is in the back of their minds as they make small decisions.
     
    Sure, but most will not be like Slovaks and Czechs. They would fight hard until they lose, and those that survive will enjoy a comfortable exile in the West. As many of their people did before. As did others, such as Poles.

    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France.

    Not even close. In the long run countries’ prospects are dictated by resources and size-quality of their populations. US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality.
     
    1. I forgot to consider - if Russia invades Ukraine, sanctions and the costs of war will prevent Russia from converging with Italy in 20 years. It will fall further back.

    2. US is estimated to have 400 million people in 2060:

    https://i.imgur.com/SJIw9QO.png

    This will be a lower population density than in the current EU.

    Quality will vary; we will still be getting all sorts of Latinos, plus educated eastern Europeans, Asians, etc. Whatever they will be, they will be higher quality than the ones Europe will be getting, or your gypsies with expanding population (10% of Slovakia's population already).

    Ukrainians would just join the above average middle class in the USA, where the established Ukrainians already are. Life isn't bad for those.

    Replies: @Beckow, @mal

  186. Ukrainians doing something stupid and then losing the entire black sea coast would be pretty funny I think

  187. @Beckow
    @AP


    ....consequences for alleged war crimes as a deterrent for resistance to a Russian invasion is simply a non-issue.
     
    A non-issue would be zero. It is not zero, some won't leave and some will worry that they would fail to leave. Many have properties to protect. It is in the back of their minds as they make small decisions.

    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France.
     
    Not even close. In the long run countries' prospects are dictated by resources and size-quality of their populations. US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality. Italy and France have few resources and a massive influx of Third World migrants. That will show up in their quality of life.

    You need to compare the prospects for younger people, not the elderly living off previous wealth. Very few Ukie refugees would be given a sinecure, like e.g. Skripal in UK.

    There is also the debt - we can speculate how much longer it will grow or how it will finally end, but the massive debt is an issue for the West. Debt is a claim on the same assets by two or more people, it multiplies the sense of well-being and in manageable quantities it is good. Today's numbers in US or Italy-France are too big - e.g. they would probably default if interest rates would go to 5-6%. With zero interest rates they can stretch it out, but without a massive increase in young people incomes or double-digit inflation it cannot be solved. Russia for all its problems has almost no debt. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, we will see.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality.

    ??

    At the beginning of 2018, the population was 318M and two years later at the beginning of 2020 it rose to a modest 321M. I would guess that after a year of the coronavirus and Trump being president the rise was even less so. Also, a certain percentage of those gaining entrance to the US are entrepreneurial types and higher IQ individuals that take on higher paying professional positions. Your analysis seems to be missing some accuracy and validity.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    At the beginning of 2021 the US official population was 332 million. Unofficially there are 10-20 million more people: illegals, visa overstayers, all kinds of 'visitors' who will never go back. With Biden's amnesty millions will be able to re-unite with their families in US, an estimate is that the chain migration triggered by the amnesty will allow 30 million people to move to US within a generation. In addition there are 1.5 million people each year who immigrate to US legally. Plus the natural growth.

    Yeah, it is heading to 500 million, just add them numbers and wait 25 years.


    a certain percentage of those gaining entrance to the US are entrepreneurial types and higher IQ individuals that take on higher paying professional positions.
     
    You as an old geezer welcome this: cheaper service labor, more nurses, more offshore doctors, all of that appeals to baby boomers. There is a huge cost for younger Americans in this, they have been pushed out and replaced from the bottom (lawn-moving by teenagers) to graduate schools. It's not all positive. The point is that coming Ukraine refugees would be thrown into this global competitive mix and as whites probably do less well than Bandera's generation after WWII. Think it through.

    Replies: @4Dchessmaster, @AP, @Mr. Hack

  188. @Levtraro
    @Bashibuzuk

    If that were true or commonly believed, there would be a run on US debt, and that is not happening. Owners of US debt, knowing a lot more that you, are expecting to be paid or to sell it to someone expecting to be paid.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @mal, @Beckow

    …If that were true or commonly believed, there would be a run on US debt

    A run requires that you have somewhere to run. Given the quantities involved that is not possible. At this point US treasuries serve as a storage place for money given lack of alternatives. If a credible alternative appears that could change.

    The US living standards depend on preventing an alternative to US treasury debt. That is at the heart of current US policies. In the long run that is a tough place to be, the numbers are getting too big.

    • Agree: Levtraro
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Beckow


    If a credible alternative appears that could change.
     
    Somewhat related:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/caitlinlong/2019/09/25/the-real-story-of-the-repo-market-meltdown-and-what-it-means-for-bitcoin/

    BTW according to some information there was trouble on the repo market again last week.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/investing/wall-street-repo-market-fed/index.html

    (I sincerely apologize for linking CNN)
    , @A123
    @Beckow


    A run requires that you have somewhere to run. Given the quantities involved that is not possible. At this point US treasuries serve as a storage place for money given lack of alternatives. If a credible alternative appears that could change.
     
    All if the alternatives are much worse. EUR, RMB, Commodities (e.g. Gold, Oil) all have huge weakness that make the USD look like a paragon of virtue. Not only is there no alternative now, there is nothing on the horizon that could become one.

    The US living standards depend on preventing an alternative to US treasury debt.
     
    Incorrect. SJW Globalist Elite power depends on the Treasury.

    This has little to do with ordinary Americans' living standards. When the current USD perishes:
    • How many Americans will have more than $10,000 in the bank to lose?
    • How many lower & middle class Americans will be freed from debt?

    America will quickly rebound if workers produce more value than they consume. Thus, the solution to helping U.S. Workers is MAGA re-industrialization. Ending dependence on trade predators like China would immediately make Main Street stronger. Without the burden of the "Reserve Currency Premium", U.S. exports will become cheaper & imports more expensive. This is a virtuous cycle that will strengthen Main Street America.

    PEACE 😇

  189. @Beckow
    @Levtraro


    ...If that were true or commonly believed, there would be a run on US debt
     
    A run requires that you have somewhere to run. Given the quantities involved that is not possible. At this point US treasuries serve as a storage place for money given lack of alternatives. If a credible alternative appears that could change.

    The US living standards depend on preventing an alternative to US treasury debt. That is at the heart of current US policies. In the long run that is a tough place to be, the numbers are getting too big.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @A123

    If a credible alternative appears that could change.

    Somewhat related:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/caitlinlong/2019/09/25/the-real-story-of-the-repo-market-meltdown-and-what-it-means-for-bitcoin/

    BTW according to some information there was trouble on the repo market again last week.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/investing/wall-street-repo-market-fed/index.html

    (I sincerely apologize for linking CNN)

  190. @AP
    @Mr. XYZ

    He might have relied too much on Russian sources for his information.

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ

    Maybe, but at the same time, his idea to make Ukrainian an official language of the Russian Empire actually does appear to have made a lot of sense. If Russian would still ended up being much more dynamic in spite of this, then this would show the “superiority” of the Russian language once and for all–and would of course also help unite the Russian and Ukrainian peoples into one body politic.

    By the way, off-topic, but in regards to the Donbass, why exactly don’t you think that Putin helped Strelkov and his gang back when they still controlled Sloviansk? Why wait until after they had already lost Sloviansk and were near the verge of complete and total defeat before deciding to actually help the Donbass separatists?

    Also, do you consider the Battle of Sloviansk to be the equivalent of the Battle of the Alamo for the Donbass separatists?

    • Replies: @JL
    @Mr. XYZ


    By the way, off-topic, but in regards to the Donbass, why exactly don’t you think that Putin helped Strelkov and his gang back when they still controlled Sloviansk? Why wait until after they had already lost Sloviansk and were near the verge of complete and total defeat before deciding to actually help the Donbass separatists?
     
    This isn't a mystery, Russian public opinion would not allow for a rout of the Donbass rebels and so Russia was forced to intervene. Russia had achieved its strategic goals with Crimea and had no real interest in the Donbass. It was poor strategy on Russia's part, which should have gone either full bore, or worked to quash the rebellion internally, immediately.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @AP, @Mr. XYZ

  191. @Beckow
    @Levtraro


    ...If that were true or commonly believed, there would be a run on US debt
     
    A run requires that you have somewhere to run. Given the quantities involved that is not possible. At this point US treasuries serve as a storage place for money given lack of alternatives. If a credible alternative appears that could change.

    The US living standards depend on preventing an alternative to US treasury debt. That is at the heart of current US policies. In the long run that is a tough place to be, the numbers are getting too big.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @A123

    A run requires that you have somewhere to run. Given the quantities involved that is not possible. At this point US treasuries serve as a storage place for money given lack of alternatives. If a credible alternative appears that could change.

    All if the alternatives are much worse. EUR, RMB, Commodities (e.g. Gold, Oil) all have huge weakness that make the USD look like a paragon of virtue. Not only is there no alternative now, there is nothing on the horizon that could become one.

    The US living standards depend on preventing an alternative to US treasury debt.

    Incorrect. SJW Globalist Elite power depends on the Treasury.

    This has little to do with ordinary Americans’ living standards. When the current USD perishes:
    • How many Americans will have more than $10,000 in the bank to lose?
    • How many lower & middle class Americans will be freed from debt?

    America will quickly rebound if workers produce more value than they consume. Thus, the solution to helping U.S. Workers is MAGA re-industrialization. Ending dependence on trade predators like China would immediately make Main Street stronger. Without the burden of the “Reserve Currency Premium”, U.S. exports will become cheaper & imports more expensive. This is a virtuous cycle that will strengthen Main Street America.

    PEACE 😇

  192. • Replies: @Shortsword
    @Mikhail

    I've looked through this guys blog and tweets before. His blog is called "The Unrepentant Marxist". A Trotskyist, of course. The blog is full of opinions on historical events, modern culture war, movies and more.

    Then there's his opinions on modern foreign policy. He hates Russia and China. He really hates Assad. All Western supported "dissidents" are good. Russia creates fake news but luckily we have Bellingcat to tell us the truth!

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Commentator Mike, @Kent Nationalist

  193. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP


    ....consequences for alleged war crimes as a deterrent for resistance to a Russian invasion is simply a non-issue.
     
    A non-issue would be zero. It is not zero, some won't leave and some will worry that they would fail to leave. Many have properties to protect. It is in the back of their minds as they make small decisions.

    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France.
     
    Not even close. In the long run countries' prospects are dictated by resources and size-quality of their populations. US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality. Italy and France have few resources and a massive influx of Third World migrants. That will show up in their quality of life.

    You need to compare the prospects for younger people, not the elderly living off previous wealth. Very few Ukie refugees would be given a sinecure, like e.g. Skripal in UK.

    There is also the debt - we can speculate how much longer it will grow or how it will finally end, but the massive debt is an issue for the West. Debt is a claim on the same assets by two or more people, it multiplies the sense of well-being and in manageable quantities it is good. Today's numbers in US or Italy-France are too big - e.g. they would probably default if interest rates would go to 5-6%. With zero interest rates they can stretch it out, but without a massive increase in young people incomes or double-digit inflation it cannot be solved. Russia for all its problems has almost no debt. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, we will see.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    It is not zero, some won’t leave and some will worry that they would fail to leave. Many have properties to protect. It is in the back of their minds as they make small decisions.

    Sure, but most will not be like Slovaks and Czechs. They would fight hard until they lose, and those that survive will enjoy a comfortable exile in the West. As many of their people did before. As did others, such as Poles.

    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France.

    Not even close. In the long run countries’ prospects are dictated by resources and size-quality of their populations. US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality.

    1. I forgot to consider – if Russia invades Ukraine, sanctions and the costs of war will prevent Russia from converging with Italy in 20 years. It will fall further back.

    2. US is estimated to have 400 million people in 2060:

    This will be a lower population density than in the current EU.

    Quality will vary; we will still be getting all sorts of Latinos, plus educated eastern Europeans, Asians, etc. Whatever they will be, they will be higher quality than the ones Europe will be getting, or your gypsies with expanding population (10% of Slovakia’s population already).

    Ukrainians would just join the above average middle class in the USA, where the established Ukrainians already are. Life isn’t bad for those.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...most will not be like Slovaks and Czechs. They would fight hard until they lose, and those that survive will enjoy a comfortable exile in the West.
     
    I always laugh when I see this empty posturing. Yes, we don't fight losing battles - no rational human should. And from my friends among people from Ukraine, most are just like that and have no desire to bleed for Ze, Porky or Kolomoisky. You might be surprised how few would actually fight if the battle would be apriori lost.

    That comfortable exile in the West is problematic. But I leave that to the future, some will make it, others won't. The point is that if you are in a bloody fight with one eye on the coming comfort you might just choose to take a shortcut. That's human nature. Ukrainians are still human, aren't they?

    Replies: @AP, @reiner Tor

    , @mal
    @AP


    2. US is estimated to have 400 million people in 2060.
     
    Those estimates are super optimistic. In that same report, you can see actual 2019-2020 growth rate plunging to 0.35%, the lowest on record.

    And some of that may be pandemic related, sure, but if you look at the trend in the growth rate even before pandemic, that trend is not your friend. If we end up with 320 million by 2060, i would consider US very lucky.

    Immigration is not going to help either because the rest of the world is undergoing similar demographic transition. They will need their young, as many as they can get.

    Replies: @AP

  194. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality.
     
    ??

    At the beginning of 2018, the population was 318M and two years later at the beginning of 2020 it rose to a modest 321M. I would guess that after a year of the coronavirus and Trump being president the rise was even less so. Also, a certain percentage of those gaining entrance to the US are entrepreneurial types and higher IQ individuals that take on higher paying professional positions. Your analysis seems to be missing some accuracy and validity.

    Replies: @Beckow

    At the beginning of 2021 the US official population was 332 million. Unofficially there are 10-20 million more people: illegals, visa overstayers, all kinds of ‘visitors’ who will never go back. With Biden’s amnesty millions will be able to re-unite with their families in US, an estimate is that the chain migration triggered by the amnesty will allow 30 million people to move to US within a generation. In addition there are 1.5 million people each year who immigrate to US legally. Plus the natural growth.

    Yeah, it is heading to 500 million, just add them numbers and wait 25 years.

    a certain percentage of those gaining entrance to the US are entrepreneurial types and higher IQ individuals that take on higher paying professional positions.

    You as an old geezer welcome this: cheaper service labor, more nurses, more offshore doctors, all of that appeals to baby boomers. There is a huge cost for younger Americans in this, they have been pushed out and replaced from the bottom (lawn-moving by teenagers) to graduate schools. It’s not all positive. The point is that coming Ukraine refugees would be thrown into this global competitive mix and as whites probably do less well than Bandera’s generation after WWII. Think it through.

    • Replies: @4Dchessmaster
    @Beckow

    To think that many conservative Republicans from Boomers to Zoomers still worship Reagan when he set the stage for this mess in 1986, it's just embarrassing.

    Replies: @A123

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    At the beginning of 2021 the US official population was 332 million. Unofficially there are 10-20 million more people: illegals, visa overstayers
     
    US official figures include illegals (maybe in Europe it is done differently). I already posted population estimate - 400 million in 2060.

    There is a huge cost for younger Americans in this, they have been pushed out and replaced from the bottom (lawn-moving by teenagers
     
    This mostly harms working class whites and poor blacks. This of course is bad. But it wouldn’t affect incoming Eastern Europeans headed for the middle to upper middle class. Kids of affluent whites aren’t harmed. Their summer jobs will pay much more.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    You as an old geezer welcome this: cheaper service labor, more nurses, more offshore doctors, all of that appeals to baby boomers
     
    Your selective memory doesn't take into account middle aged Americans? What's there not to like for them, a huge segment of the total population that is strapped with costs trying to raise families?

    The point is that coming Ukraine refugees would be thrown into this global competitive mix and as whites probably do less well than Bandera’s generation after WWII. Think it through.

     

    Nonsense. Most young Ukrainians that come over today (as versus my parent's generation) already know English and in fact most even have a college degree in something useful (computer science, biology, engineering.). The ones that don't seem to be as highly educated often take up jobs as truck drivers, beauticians, personal home companions, etc. The only real complaints by some is that they miss the lifestyle and family that they've left behind. A lot of these types go back home at least bi-yearly.
     Also, is the fact that if the population will grow as much as you predict, there will be a huge amount of unfilled jobs to be filled by those that are willing to roll up their sleeves and get to work, right? :-)

    Replies: @Beckow

  195. @AP
    @Beckow


    It is not zero, some won’t leave and some will worry that they would fail to leave. Many have properties to protect. It is in the back of their minds as they make small decisions.
     
    Sure, but most will not be like Slovaks and Czechs. They would fight hard until they lose, and those that survive will enjoy a comfortable exile in the West. As many of their people did before. As did others, such as Poles.

    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France.

    Not even close. In the long run countries’ prospects are dictated by resources and size-quality of their populations. US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality.
     
    1. I forgot to consider - if Russia invades Ukraine, sanctions and the costs of war will prevent Russia from converging with Italy in 20 years. It will fall further back.

    2. US is estimated to have 400 million people in 2060:

    https://i.imgur.com/SJIw9QO.png

    This will be a lower population density than in the current EU.

    Quality will vary; we will still be getting all sorts of Latinos, plus educated eastern Europeans, Asians, etc. Whatever they will be, they will be higher quality than the ones Europe will be getting, or your gypsies with expanding population (10% of Slovakia's population already).

    Ukrainians would just join the above average middle class in the USA, where the established Ukrainians already are. Life isn't bad for those.

    Replies: @Beckow, @mal

    …most will not be like Slovaks and Czechs. They would fight hard until they lose, and those that survive will enjoy a comfortable exile in the West.

    I always laugh when I see this empty posturing. Yes, we don’t fight losing battles – no rational human should. And from my friends among people from Ukraine, most are just like that and have no desire to bleed for Ze, Porky or Kolomoisky. You might be surprised how few would actually fight if the battle would be apriori lost.

    That comfortable exile in the West is problematic. But I leave that to the future, some will make it, others won’t. The point is that if you are in a bloody fight with one eye on the coming comfort you might just choose to take a shortcut. That’s human nature. Ukrainians are still human, aren’t they?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    I always laugh when I see this empty posturing.
     
    It's not posturing, but description of fact.

    Yes, we don’t fight losing battles – no rational human should.
     
    Your people surrender to and serve whoever is strongest - Nazis, Communists, Anglo-Americans. When Russia is ascendant you pivot in its direction. If Arabs manage to take over Europe you will eagerly convert, and note how rational you were for not resisting.

    Most humans are not similarly "rational." Poles fought both Soviets and Nazis, with no chance of winning. Banderists fought Soviets in the woods for 5 years. Hungarians fought Soviets in 1956. Something like 70% of Ukrainians did not leave for the EU or Russia when conscripted (one of my cousins served in Luhansk when conscripted, another wasn't chosen but refused to join his brother in Moscow to avoid potential conscription). There were no mass desertions by either Armenians or Azeris. Most people are not Slovaks.

    have no desire to bleed for Ze, Porky or Kolomoisky
     
    How many Armenians you think were bleeding for their president lol.
    , @reiner Tor
    @Beckow


    we don’t fight losing battles – no rational human should
     
    It’s not a one round game, so it’s unclear what’s best.

    Replies: @Beckow

  196. @Mikhail
    A left wing schmucko brings up Ukraine:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/03/09/a-short-history-of-uighur-resistance/

    Replies: @Shortsword

    I’ve looked through this guys blog and tweets before. His blog is called “The Unrepentant Marxist”. A Trotskyist, of course. The blog is full of opinions on historical events, modern culture war, movies and more.

    Then there’s his opinions on modern foreign policy. He hates Russia and China. He really hates Assad. All Western supported “dissidents” are good. Russia creates fake news but luckily we have Bellingcat to tell us the truth!

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Shortsword


    I’ve looked through this guys blog and tweets before. His blog is called “The Unrepentant Marxist”. A Trotskyist, of course. The blog is full of opinions on historical events, modern culture war, movies and more.

    Then there’s his opinions on modern foreign policy. He hates Russia and China. He really hates Assad. All Western supported “dissidents” are good. Russia creates fake news but luckily we have Bellingcat to tell us the truth!

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.
     
    Yes. Bill Weinberg who used to have a show on NY Pacifica Foundation affiliated WBAI is another.

    They're idiologicaly dense. They banter nonsense after being dis-proven. Weinberg refers to the Crimean Tatars as the indigenous people of Crimea, despite having been notified that the Rus Slav presence in Crimea pre-dated the Tartars, who if anything had arrived later there and in an imperial suppressive manner. I think he also has erroneously referred to the Albanians as the original inhabitants of Kosovo.

    Another dynamic is the Stalin-Trotsky divide. Stalin is seen as the Russian nationalist influenced murderer.

    Replies: @Shortsword

    , @Commentator Mike
    @Shortsword


    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.
     
    The World Socialist Website linked here on UR is Trotskyist and they're not like that.
    , @Kent Nationalist
    @Shortsword


    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.

     

    Because they are almost exclusively Jews (in contrast, Stalinists are much more gentile). Obviously not stupid, just deceitful. As always, if you don't understand the JQ you are putting on blinders.

    The WSW also supports Jewish rapists like DSK (I'm not joking)

  197. @AP
    @Beckow


    It is not zero, some won’t leave and some will worry that they would fail to leave. Many have properties to protect. It is in the back of their minds as they make small decisions.
     
    Sure, but most will not be like Slovaks and Czechs. They would fight hard until they lose, and those that survive will enjoy a comfortable exile in the West. As many of their people did before. As did others, such as Poles.

    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years. Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France.

    Not even close. In the long run countries’ prospects are dictated by resources and size-quality of their populations. US is heading to 500 million people with questionable quality.
     
    1. I forgot to consider - if Russia invades Ukraine, sanctions and the costs of war will prevent Russia from converging with Italy in 20 years. It will fall further back.

    2. US is estimated to have 400 million people in 2060:

    https://i.imgur.com/SJIw9QO.png

    This will be a lower population density than in the current EU.

    Quality will vary; we will still be getting all sorts of Latinos, plus educated eastern Europeans, Asians, etc. Whatever they will be, they will be higher quality than the ones Europe will be getting, or your gypsies with expanding population (10% of Slovakia's population already).

    Ukrainians would just join the above average middle class in the USA, where the established Ukrainians already are. Life isn't bad for those.

    Replies: @Beckow, @mal

    2. US is estimated to have 400 million people in 2060.

    Those estimates are super optimistic. In that same report, you can see actual 2019-2020 growth rate plunging to 0.35%, the lowest on record.

    And some of that may be pandemic related, sure, but if you look at the trend in the growth rate even before pandemic, that trend is not your friend. If we end up with 320 million by 2060, i would consider US very lucky.

    Immigration is not going to help either because the rest of the world is undergoing similar demographic transition. They will need their young, as many as they can get.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @AP
    @mal


    2. US is estimated to have 400 million people in 2060.

    Those estimates are super optimistic. In that same report, you can see actual 2019-2020 growth rate plunging to 0.35%, the lowest on record.

    And some of that may be pandemic related, sure, but if you look at the trend in the growth rate even before pandemic, that trend is not your friend. If we end up with 320 million by 2060, i would consider US very lucky.
     
    People are moving not because their country is overcrowded but because America is richer. It's why Ukrainians move to Poland despite Ukraine's low fertility rate. So America will continue to be getting Latin American immigrants.
  198. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    At the beginning of 2021 the US official population was 332 million. Unofficially there are 10-20 million more people: illegals, visa overstayers, all kinds of 'visitors' who will never go back. With Biden's amnesty millions will be able to re-unite with their families in US, an estimate is that the chain migration triggered by the amnesty will allow 30 million people to move to US within a generation. In addition there are 1.5 million people each year who immigrate to US legally. Plus the natural growth.

    Yeah, it is heading to 500 million, just add them numbers and wait 25 years.


    a certain percentage of those gaining entrance to the US are entrepreneurial types and higher IQ individuals that take on higher paying professional positions.
     
    You as an old geezer welcome this: cheaper service labor, more nurses, more offshore doctors, all of that appeals to baby boomers. There is a huge cost for younger Americans in this, they have been pushed out and replaced from the bottom (lawn-moving by teenagers) to graduate schools. It's not all positive. The point is that coming Ukraine refugees would be thrown into this global competitive mix and as whites probably do less well than Bandera's generation after WWII. Think it through.

    Replies: @4Dchessmaster, @AP, @Mr. Hack

    To think that many conservative Republicans from Boomers to Zoomers still worship Reagan when he set the stage for this mess in 1986, it’s just embarrassing.

    • Replies: @A123
    @4Dchessmaster


    To think that many conservative Republicans from Boomers to Zoomers still worship Reagan when he set the stage for this mess in 1986, it’s just embarrassing.
     
    The defining phrase for that effort was The Last Amnesty Ever.

    Of course, the Nazi-crats lied and want another amnesty. American Patriots need to toe the line and give the Nazis two choices. Keep their word -or- lose their citizenship. Either way there will not be another Amnesty. Imagine how much better it will be if 70MM registered Nazi-crats are never allowed to vote again.

    It is not a perfect or permanent solution, but aggressive De-Nazification provides time to reform education & government to permanently keep out SJW Corporate Globalists and their Progressive fallacies.

    PEACE 😇

  199. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    At the beginning of 2021 the US official population was 332 million. Unofficially there are 10-20 million more people: illegals, visa overstayers, all kinds of 'visitors' who will never go back. With Biden's amnesty millions will be able to re-unite with their families in US, an estimate is that the chain migration triggered by the amnesty will allow 30 million people to move to US within a generation. In addition there are 1.5 million people each year who immigrate to US legally. Plus the natural growth.

    Yeah, it is heading to 500 million, just add them numbers and wait 25 years.


    a certain percentage of those gaining entrance to the US are entrepreneurial types and higher IQ individuals that take on higher paying professional positions.
     
    You as an old geezer welcome this: cheaper service labor, more nurses, more offshore doctors, all of that appeals to baby boomers. There is a huge cost for younger Americans in this, they have been pushed out and replaced from the bottom (lawn-moving by teenagers) to graduate schools. It's not all positive. The point is that coming Ukraine refugees would be thrown into this global competitive mix and as whites probably do less well than Bandera's generation after WWII. Think it through.

    Replies: @4Dchessmaster, @AP, @Mr. Hack

    At the beginning of 2021 the US official population was 332 million. Unofficially there are 10-20 million more people: illegals, visa overstayers

    US official figures include illegals (maybe in Europe it is done differently). I already posted population estimate – 400 million in 2060.

    There is a huge cost for younger Americans in this, they have been pushed out and replaced from the bottom (lawn-moving by teenagers

    This mostly harms working class whites and poor blacks. This of course is bad. But it wouldn’t affect incoming Eastern Europeans headed for the middle to upper middle class. Kids of affluent whites aren’t harmed. Their summer jobs will pay much more.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    Given the utter dysfunction of the American administration on all levels it is very improbable that the official figures include the categories I listed. You say it's going to 400 million, I will raise you to 500 million. Once there is a foothold of tens of millions migrants from the Third World - and there is now in US and amnesty would make it bigger - the chain migration will do the rest. There are about 4-5 billion people in Africa, Latin America, India, Asia etc...who will move to US if they are able to. Increasingly a large percentage of them are one or two family links away. They will come and there will be 500 million people. Then the living standards will be what exactly?

    Ukrainians in Central Europe wash dishes, clean hotel rooms, work low-level construction and night shifts in manufacturing. They are definitely not middle class. There are a few doctors and engineers, but those are exceptions often people who studied here or married locals long time ago. Why do you think they would do better in US?

    Replies: @AP

  200. @4Dchessmaster
    @Beckow

    To think that many conservative Republicans from Boomers to Zoomers still worship Reagan when he set the stage for this mess in 1986, it's just embarrassing.

    Replies: @A123

    To think that many conservative Republicans from Boomers to Zoomers still worship Reagan when he set the stage for this mess in 1986, it’s just embarrassing.

    The defining phrase for that effort was The Last Amnesty Ever.

    Of course, the Nazi-crats lied and want another amnesty. American Patriots need to toe the line and give the Nazis two choices. Keep their word -or- lose their citizenship. Either way there will not be another Amnesty. Imagine how much better it will be if 70MM registered Nazi-crats are never allowed to vote again.

    It is not a perfect or permanent solution, but aggressive De-Nazification provides time to reform education & government to permanently keep out SJW Corporate Globalists and their Progressive fallacies.

    PEACE 😇

  201. @AP
    @Beckow


    At the beginning of 2021 the US official population was 332 million. Unofficially there are 10-20 million more people: illegals, visa overstayers
     
    US official figures include illegals (maybe in Europe it is done differently). I already posted population estimate - 400 million in 2060.

    There is a huge cost for younger Americans in this, they have been pushed out and replaced from the bottom (lawn-moving by teenagers
     
    This mostly harms working class whites and poor blacks. This of course is bad. But it wouldn’t affect incoming Eastern Europeans headed for the middle to upper middle class. Kids of affluent whites aren’t harmed. Their summer jobs will pay much more.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Given the utter dysfunction of the American administration on all levels it is very improbable that the official figures include the categories I listed. You say it’s going to 400 million, I will raise you to 500 million. Once there is a foothold of tens of millions migrants from the Third World – and there is now in US and amnesty would make it bigger – the chain migration will do the rest. There are about 4-5 billion people in Africa, Latin America, India, Asia etc…who will move to US if they are able to. Increasingly a large percentage of them are one or two family links away. They will come and there will be 500 million people. Then the living standards will be what exactly?

    Ukrainians in Central Europe wash dishes, clean hotel rooms, work low-level construction and night shifts in manufacturing. They are definitely not middle class. There are a few doctors and engineers, but those are exceptions often people who studied here or married locals long time ago. Why do you think they would do better in US?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    Given the utter dysfunction of the American administration on all levels it is very improbable that the official figures include the categories I listed.
     
    America is not Slovakia, which undercounts its gypsy population. There was a fight in the USA because Trump did not want illegals, who are very much counted, to be used for purposes of political redistricting. So yes, they are counted. It is actually very valuable to count them, their presence adds to a place's political power and to the amount of money a city receives in aid. So during the census each city tries to count as many illegals (or anybody) as possible. The more it finds, the more money it gets for schools and other things. If corruption plays a role, illegals will if anything be overcounted.

    You say it’s going to 400 million, I will raise you to 500 million
     
    And "mal" says it won't even be 320 million. But we know how you invent numbers.

    They will come and there will be 500 million people.
     
    Not according to any estimates, only according to your dreams. Actual estimates:

    https://i.imgur.com/SJIw9QO.png


    There are about 4-5 billion people in Africa
     
    And less than 3 million in the USA. Immigrants from Africa are not even 1% of the population. Moreover, the ones here are mostly their educated ones, they work as chemists, or physicians or whatever. Some of them are white South Africans.

    Mass immigration from Africa is a European, not American issue. We mostly get the noisy, but friendly, half-European Latinos.


    Then the living standards will be what exactly?
     
    About the same, for the hundreds of million of middle to upper middle class people who would be segregated from the newcomers. There are enough prosperous people in America that when they self-segregate they are not living in fortified enclaves as in South Africa or Latin America, but in large areas the sizes of European countries. But you are a dreamer, with your own fantasies of 500 million, squalor, etc. Remind me again what is the projected gypsy population in your country for 2050? They are unofficially about 10% now, and growing.

    Replies: @Beckow, @reiner Tor

  202. @Shortsword
    @Mikhail

    I've looked through this guys blog and tweets before. His blog is called "The Unrepentant Marxist". A Trotskyist, of course. The blog is full of opinions on historical events, modern culture war, movies and more.

    Then there's his opinions on modern foreign policy. He hates Russia and China. He really hates Assad. All Western supported "dissidents" are good. Russia creates fake news but luckily we have Bellingcat to tell us the truth!

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Commentator Mike, @Kent Nationalist

    I’ve looked through this guys blog and tweets before. His blog is called “The Unrepentant Marxist”. A Trotskyist, of course. The blog is full of opinions on historical events, modern culture war, movies and more.

    Then there’s his opinions on modern foreign policy. He hates Russia and China. He really hates Assad. All Western supported “dissidents” are good. Russia creates fake news but luckily we have Bellingcat to tell us the truth!

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.

    Yes. Bill Weinberg who used to have a show on NY Pacifica Foundation affiliated WBAI is another.

    They’re idiologicaly dense. They banter nonsense after being dis-proven. Weinberg refers to the Crimean Tatars as the indigenous people of Crimea, despite having been notified that the Rus Slav presence in Crimea pre-dated the Tartars, who if anything had arrived later there and in an imperial suppressive manner. I think he also has erroneously referred to the Albanians as the original inhabitants of Kosovo.

    Another dynamic is the Stalin-Trotsky divide. Stalin is seen as the Russian nationalist influenced murderer.

    • Replies: @Shortsword
    @Mikhail

    Trotskyists were basically defined by hating the Soviet Union. For a lot of them their entire ideology turned into that. That meant cheering on United States to do anything to weaken the Soviet Union. That also explains why so many Trotskyists became neoconservatives later. But the ideology has a hard time existing after the cold war. It does seem like some old Trotskyists keep it going by hating Russia and China instead.

    Bill Weinberg on the other hand seem to be an anarchist. Anarchists are just very harmless. Maybe they're angry at capitalism or imperialism or whatever but they won't do anything. Very often they support (or just express an indifferent attitude towards) American interventionism because they probably consider the opponent even more authoritarian or something. Everything they label tankies is especially bad because that's just red fascism.

    Trotskyism and anarchism are both left wing ideologies that sound very radical without being an actual threat. That's why the West is sympathetic towards them. I don't care much about ideology but I detest how often proponents of these two ideologies do nothing but carry water for United States.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  203. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP


    ...most will not be like Slovaks and Czechs. They would fight hard until they lose, and those that survive will enjoy a comfortable exile in the West.
     
    I always laugh when I see this empty posturing. Yes, we don't fight losing battles - no rational human should. And from my friends among people from Ukraine, most are just like that and have no desire to bleed for Ze, Porky or Kolomoisky. You might be surprised how few would actually fight if the battle would be apriori lost.

    That comfortable exile in the West is problematic. But I leave that to the future, some will make it, others won't. The point is that if you are in a bloody fight with one eye on the coming comfort you might just choose to take a shortcut. That's human nature. Ukrainians are still human, aren't they?

    Replies: @AP, @reiner Tor

    I always laugh when I see this empty posturing.

    It’s not posturing, but description of fact.

    Yes, we don’t fight losing battles – no rational human should.

    Your people surrender to and serve whoever is strongest – Nazis, Communists, Anglo-Americans. When Russia is ascendant you pivot in its direction. If Arabs manage to take over Europe you will eagerly convert, and note how rational you were for not resisting.

    Most humans are not similarly “rational.” Poles fought both Soviets and Nazis, with no chance of winning. Banderists fought Soviets in the woods for 5 years. Hungarians fought Soviets in 1956. Something like 70% of Ukrainians did not leave for the EU or Russia when conscripted (one of my cousins served in Luhansk when conscripted, another wasn’t chosen but refused to join his brother in Moscow to avoid potential conscription). There were no mass desertions by either Armenians or Azeris. Most people are not Slovaks.

    have no desire to bleed for Ze, Porky or Kolomoisky

    How many Armenians you think were bleeding for their president lol.

  204. AP says:
    @mal
    @AP


    2. US is estimated to have 400 million people in 2060.
     
    Those estimates are super optimistic. In that same report, you can see actual 2019-2020 growth rate plunging to 0.35%, the lowest on record.

    And some of that may be pandemic related, sure, but if you look at the trend in the growth rate even before pandemic, that trend is not your friend. If we end up with 320 million by 2060, i would consider US very lucky.

    Immigration is not going to help either because the rest of the world is undergoing similar demographic transition. They will need their young, as many as they can get.

    Replies: @AP

    2. US is estimated to have 400 million people in 2060.

    Those estimates are super optimistic. In that same report, you can see actual 2019-2020 growth rate plunging to 0.35%, the lowest on record.

    And some of that may be pandemic related, sure, but if you look at the trend in the growth rate even before pandemic, that trend is not your friend. If we end up with 320 million by 2060, i would consider US very lucky.

    People are moving not because their country is overcrowded but because America is richer. It’s why Ukrainians move to Poland despite Ukraine’s low fertility rate. So America will continue to be getting Latin American immigrants.

  205. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP

    Given the utter dysfunction of the American administration on all levels it is very improbable that the official figures include the categories I listed. You say it's going to 400 million, I will raise you to 500 million. Once there is a foothold of tens of millions migrants from the Third World - and there is now in US and amnesty would make it bigger - the chain migration will do the rest. There are about 4-5 billion people in Africa, Latin America, India, Asia etc...who will move to US if they are able to. Increasingly a large percentage of them are one or two family links away. They will come and there will be 500 million people. Then the living standards will be what exactly?

    Ukrainians in Central Europe wash dishes, clean hotel rooms, work low-level construction and night shifts in manufacturing. They are definitely not middle class. There are a few doctors and engineers, but those are exceptions often people who studied here or married locals long time ago. Why do you think they would do better in US?

    Replies: @AP

    Given the utter dysfunction of the American administration on all levels it is very improbable that the official figures include the categories I listed.

    America is not Slovakia, which undercounts its gypsy population. There was a fight in the USA because Trump did not want illegals, who are very much counted, to be used for purposes of political redistricting. So yes, they are counted. It is actually very valuable to count them, their presence adds to a place’s political power and to the amount of money a city receives in aid. So during the census each city tries to count as many illegals (or anybody) as possible. The more it finds, the more money it gets for schools and other things. If corruption plays a role, illegals will if anything be overcounted.

    You say it’s going to 400 million, I will raise you to 500 million

    And “mal” says it won’t even be 320 million. But we know how you invent numbers.

    They will come and there will be 500 million people.

    Not according to any estimates, only according to your dreams. Actual estimates:

    There are about 4-5 billion people in Africa

    And less than 3 million in the USA. Immigrants from Africa are not even 1% of the population. Moreover, the ones here are mostly their educated ones, they work as chemists, or physicians or whatever. Some of them are white South Africans.

    Mass immigration from Africa is a European, not American issue. We mostly get the noisy, but friendly, half-European Latinos.

    Then the living standards will be what exactly?

    About the same, for the hundreds of million of middle to upper middle class people who would be segregated from the newcomers. There are enough prosperous people in America that when they self-segregate they are not living in fortified enclaves as in South Africa or Latin America, but in large areas the sizes of European countries. But you are a dreamer, with your own fantasies of 500 million, squalor, etc. Remind me again what is the projected gypsy population in your country for 2050? They are unofficially about 10% now, and growing.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...There are enough prosperous people in America that when they self-segregate they are not living in fortified enclaves as in South Africa or Latin America
     
    As Augustine wisely said, "not yet". Give it some time and the numbers will do the work. You also know that I listed a number of sources for the wanting to come 4-5 billion (LA, India, Asia...), so your bizarre focus on only Africans is deceptive. Yes, Western Europe is also up the sh.tcreek.

    You have a soft spot for what you call half-white (?) Latins (with high PISSA scores), but what you get are a few upper-middle class people and a huge mass of cholos with average IQ around 80 and a height of a bar-stool. If you think that prosperous societies are built on that go and visit Latin America.

    And what is your obsession with the Gypsies? Do you work for Soros and his minions? In the last census there were 50k in Czechia and 100k in Slovakia. (In Hungary there are 300k and in Romania...well, don't get me started, they call themselves "Roma" for a reason.) That is 2-3%.

    There are certainly more of them, Gypsy identity is fluid and maybe about half have been absorbed in the last centuries into the majority population. Some you could call "Roma", others not. That is 2% of the population and has been stable since WWII. There are some dysfunctional Gypsy communities in the former Sudetenland where they settled them after WWII and in eastern Slovakia, but they are in tens of thousands and a lot less of an issue than millions new migrants in Brussels, Paris, London, or even Vienna. In our bigger cities you can walk around for weeks without seeing one who can be identified. But if like a child you like to argue with "your mother has big ears", I can't help you. It is nonsense and has no impact on what is going in the West.

    Replies: @AP

    , @reiner Tor
    @AP


    America is not Slovakia, which undercounts its gypsy population.
     
    Gypsies are very difficult to count due to political correctness and for historical reasons.

    In Hungary in 1945 census data were used to deport Germans. This example is used whenever someone tries to count Gypsies. Basically, the guidelines say that anyone should be counted as a Gypsy only if he says it himself. There are a few unofficial counts (even by Gypsy organizations), but the official census is pretty useless and can only be used as a floor for the estimates.

    Replies: @utu

  206. @Mikhail
    @Shortsword


    I’ve looked through this guys blog and tweets before. His blog is called “The Unrepentant Marxist”. A Trotskyist, of course. The blog is full of opinions on historical events, modern culture war, movies and more.

    Then there’s his opinions on modern foreign policy. He hates Russia and China. He really hates Assad. All Western supported “dissidents” are good. Russia creates fake news but luckily we have Bellingcat to tell us the truth!

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.
     
    Yes. Bill Weinberg who used to have a show on NY Pacifica Foundation affiliated WBAI is another.

    They're idiologicaly dense. They banter nonsense after being dis-proven. Weinberg refers to the Crimean Tatars as the indigenous people of Crimea, despite having been notified that the Rus Slav presence in Crimea pre-dated the Tartars, who if anything had arrived later there and in an imperial suppressive manner. I think he also has erroneously referred to the Albanians as the original inhabitants of Kosovo.

    Another dynamic is the Stalin-Trotsky divide. Stalin is seen as the Russian nationalist influenced murderer.

    Replies: @Shortsword

    Trotskyists were basically defined by hating the Soviet Union. For a lot of them their entire ideology turned into that. That meant cheering on United States to do anything to weaken the Soviet Union. That also explains why so many Trotskyists became neoconservatives later. But the ideology has a hard time existing after the cold war. It does seem like some old Trotskyists keep it going by hating Russia and China instead.

    Bill Weinberg on the other hand seem to be an anarchist. Anarchists are just very harmless. Maybe they’re angry at capitalism or imperialism or whatever but they won’t do anything. Very often they support (or just express an indifferent attitude towards) American interventionism because they probably consider the opponent even more authoritarian or something. Everything they label tankies is especially bad because that’s just red fascism.

    Trotskyism and anarchism are both left wing ideologies that sound very radical without being an actual threat. That’s why the West is sympathetic towards them. I don’t care much about ideology but I detest how often proponents of these two ideologies do nothing but carry water for United States.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Shortsword

    My bad. Yes, Weinberg identifies with anarchists. Of the impression he's not so against Trotsky.

    Proyect and Weinberg are aware of each other:

    https://www.google.com/search?ei=fFpIYNm1AsSUtAaL46BI&q=louis+proyect+bill+weinberg&oq=louis+proyect+bill+weinberg&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAw6BwgAELADEEM6BQguELADOgUIABCwAzoLCC4QxwEQrwEQsAM6BwgAELADEB46CggAEOoCELQCEEM6CAgAEOoCEI8BOggILhCRAhCTAjoLCC4QxwEQrwEQkQI6CgguEMcBEK8BEEM6BAgAEEM6CwguELEDEMcBEKMCOgUIABCxAzoICC4QxwEQowI6AggAOg0ILhDHARCvARBDEJMCOgUILhCRAjoECC4QQzoHCC4QsQMQQzoFCC4QsQM6AgguOggILhCxAxCTAjoICC4QxwEQrwE6BggAEBYQHjoFCCEQoAE6BQghEKsCOgcIIRAKEKABULy6BFigjwVg3agFaAJwAHgAgAFwiAHjD5IBBDI2LjKYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6sAEKyAEKwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjZ47y1gKXvAhVECs0KHYsxCAkQ4dUDCA0

    Ruthless cosmopolitans.

  207. @Shortsword
    @Mikhail

    Trotskyists were basically defined by hating the Soviet Union. For a lot of them their entire ideology turned into that. That meant cheering on United States to do anything to weaken the Soviet Union. That also explains why so many Trotskyists became neoconservatives later. But the ideology has a hard time existing after the cold war. It does seem like some old Trotskyists keep it going by hating Russia and China instead.

    Bill Weinberg on the other hand seem to be an anarchist. Anarchists are just very harmless. Maybe they're angry at capitalism or imperialism or whatever but they won't do anything. Very often they support (or just express an indifferent attitude towards) American interventionism because they probably consider the opponent even more authoritarian or something. Everything they label tankies is especially bad because that's just red fascism.

    Trotskyism and anarchism are both left wing ideologies that sound very radical without being an actual threat. That's why the West is sympathetic towards them. I don't care much about ideology but I detest how often proponents of these two ideologies do nothing but carry water for United States.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  208. JL says:
    @Mr. XYZ
    @AP

    Maybe, but at the same time, his idea to make Ukrainian an official language of the Russian Empire actually does appear to have made a lot of sense. If Russian would still ended up being much more dynamic in spite of this, then this would show the "superiority" of the Russian language once and for all--and would of course also help unite the Russian and Ukrainian peoples into one body politic.

    By the way, off-topic, but in regards to the Donbass, why exactly don't you think that Putin helped Strelkov and his gang back when they still controlled Sloviansk? Why wait until after they had already lost Sloviansk and were near the verge of complete and total defeat before deciding to actually help the Donbass separatists?

    Also, do you consider the Battle of Sloviansk to be the equivalent of the Battle of the Alamo for the Donbass separatists?

    Replies: @JL

    By the way, off-topic, but in regards to the Donbass, why exactly don’t you think that Putin helped Strelkov and his gang back when they still controlled Sloviansk? Why wait until after they had already lost Sloviansk and were near the verge of complete and total defeat before deciding to actually help the Donbass separatists?

    This isn’t a mystery, Russian public opinion would not allow for a rout of the Donbass rebels and so Russia was forced to intervene. Russia had achieved its strategic goals with Crimea and had no real interest in the Donbass. It was poor strategy on Russia’s part, which should have gone either full bore, or worked to quash the rebellion internally, immediately.

    • Agree: The Big Red Scary, AP
    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @JL

    Another compatible hypothesis that is sometimes discussed: Strelkov's adventure was tolerated as a diversion from Crimea. By all accounts, Strelkov had some encouragement from Aksyonov before going to Slavyansk.

    , @AP
    @JL

    Correct, but the intervention, when it was decided, was massive. One of the vice PMs was the same guy who set up the Dnister Republic, PM was from Russia, about 10% of fighters (and probably the best ones, as they were Chechen war vets) were well-armed volunteers from Russia. Plus Rusisan artillery support, advisers, and some troops (Ukrainians didn't the paratroopers who happened to wander in by accident) etc.

    Replies: @Insomniac Resurrected, @Mr. XYZ

    , @Mr. XYZ
    @JL

    I know why Russia ultimately did decide to intervene; rather, I'm wondering why exactly Russia didn't intervene earlier, back when the Donbass separatists still controlled Sloviansk.

  209. @Bashibuzuk
    @Levtraro

    I don't see how we can reasonably expect these amounts to be paid. And I am certain that I am not the only one to think that. Anything you want to share with us on the manner these amounts will be paid?

    Replies: @Levtraro

    I don’t see how we can reasonably expect these amounts to be paid.

    Well, US gov’t debt is constantly being paid, it is being paid as we speak, some of that debt has maturities of just weeks. The debt grows because the rate of erosion is slower than the rate of accretion, not because it is not being paid.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Levtraro


    The debt grows because the rate of erosion is slower than the rate of accretion, not because it is not being paid.
     
    So we both agree that the debt is piling up.



    https://www.futuretimeline.net/subject/images/us-debt-graph-2020.jpg

    And it's piling up at an accelerating rate.

    Do you think it will ever be paid or even just substantially decreased?

    If you think it will, then how can we reasonably expect it to happen short of some catastrophic inflation?

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    , @mal
    @Levtraro

    It is more proper to call it debt rollover, not repayment. Like when you borrow $100,000 to fund lifestyle and pay off $20,000 credit card. You didn't really pay off your debt, you got into more debt and simply rolled it.

  210. @Shortsword
    @Mikhail

    I've looked through this guys blog and tweets before. His blog is called "The Unrepentant Marxist". A Trotskyist, of course. The blog is full of opinions on historical events, modern culture war, movies and more.

    Then there's his opinions on modern foreign policy. He hates Russia and China. He really hates Assad. All Western supported "dissidents" are good. Russia creates fake news but luckily we have Bellingcat to tell us the truth!

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Commentator Mike, @Kent Nationalist

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.

    The World Socialist Website linked here on UR is Trotskyist and they’re not like that.

  211. @mal
    @Levtraro

    Well, foreigners have already checked out, net foreign purchasing of US Treasurys has been minuscule since like 2014. Share of foreign owned US debt is plunging. But good riddance anyway because foreigners simply don't have the kind of money required to fund US government deficit. Only US institutions (including Federal Reserve) are relevant.

    US debt is traded as a growth stock based on capital appreciation and is used for currency hedging, it is no longer a viable interest bearing instrument.

    In a sense, there is already a run on US debt as displayed by Federal Reserve balance sheet growth - that's the debt that can't find home on the private market.

    With all that said, a lot of people are stuck in old fashioned mindset and still expect to be paid for some reason. If that mindset prevails in a deflationary environment, US will have very bleak future. Great Depression level bleak.

    Replies: @Levtraro

    As of today the second largest proportion of US treasuries own by the public is held by foreign agents, so no, they haven’t checked out, and there is no run, in no sense whatsoever: the FR is indeed one of the big holders since the 2008 financial crisis but that is not a run, most call it QE.

    • Replies: @mal
    @Levtraro

    Foreigners own only about 1/3 of US public debt (less than $7 trillion) and haven't really added to their holdings since 2014. And really, they can't do much more, at least in quantity required.

    https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124

    And QE is effectively a bank run - it is an admission that nobody would by those Treasurys at the official rate, so central bank has to guarantee they will be the buyer.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  212. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Bashibuzuk

    One may argue about it (I'm not sure, but there was something like Ukrainian identity centuries ago), just- it doesn't matter. In the protectorate/country Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bosnian Muslims or Bosniaks are the product of Islamization, which has begun in the 15th C. But they did not have their name until 20th C. First, in 1971, they were allowed to call themselves Muslims in a national sense, not Croats or Serbs (the vast majority of them did not identify with those peoples); then, in 1993 (I think) they adopted the name "Bosniak".

    Be as it may, they are strongly, with very few exceptions, opposed to the surrounding Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins in their culture, identity, social, political, economic aims etc. As Camus had said, people become what they already have been, even without being conscious of that.

    In the case of Ukrainians, it is perfectly clear how this nation is defined. So, I don't understand why those Russophone "Ukrainians" say they are Ukrainians. They- if these data are correct- are Russians of Ukrainian ancestry.

    Replies: @AP, @awry

    One may argue about it (I’m not sure, but there was something like Ukrainian identity centuries ago), just- it doesn’t matter. In the protectorate/country Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bosnian Muslims or Bosniaks are the product of Islamization, which has begun in the 15th C. But they did not have their name until 20th C. First, in 1971, they were allowed to call themselves Muslims in a national sense, not Croats or Serbs (the vast majority of them did not identify with those peoples); then, in 1993 (I think) they adopted the name “Bosniak”.

    I’m pretty sure that “Bosniak” has been used as the name for Bosnian muslims for a long time then, it was already used at least as an exonym during the Austro-Hungarian annexation of Bosnia (in Hungarian it is “bosnyák”, it is also used for a group of Catholic Croats of Baranya called “Bosnian Croats”, “Catholic Bosnians” or “Baranja Bosniaks”, so it wasn’t meaning a Muslim originally).
    In the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy “Bosnjak” was officially used to any inhabitant of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  213. @The Big Red Scary
    @AP


    Russia has good intelligence on Ukraine, if the city were easy to take the Russians would have surely taken it.
     
    Nah. Russia didn't even want to take the parts of Ukraine that it could take, but instead had its hand forced by that amateur Strelkov LARPing as a White Army officer.

    Replies: @AP, @Belarusian Dude

    Tbf Strelkov wasnt exactly an amateur. Even before his Ukrainian (mis)adventures he had participated in many successful military actions as leader and commander. The greatest critique would realistically be that despite larping as a white guard his brain was still full of Soviet “brother hood of nations” and similar nonsense. A very large amount of men who served under him lamented how he was hesitant to strike on the Ukrainians. Entire divisions could have been destroyed while they werent organized but Strelkov believed that they could be convinced to defect or stand down. Unfortunately he wasnt very educated in matters Ukrainian and thus wasnt aware of the decades of brainrot that media was feeding to the people there. It is rather sad there was nobody there that was willing to take this decisive action.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @Belarusian Dude

    Yes, amateur is an exaggeration. More like taking on a task above his pay grade. And he has admitted this freely. The hope seems to have been to force a real Russian military intervention. The question is whether this was just the fantasy of Strelkov and the Slavyansk militia, or whether they had been given credible hope that a real intervention was likely.

  214. @Shortsword
    @Mikhail

    I've looked through this guys blog and tweets before. His blog is called "The Unrepentant Marxist". A Trotskyist, of course. The blog is full of opinions on historical events, modern culture war, movies and more.

    Then there's his opinions on modern foreign policy. He hates Russia and China. He really hates Assad. All Western supported "dissidents" are good. Russia creates fake news but luckily we have Bellingcat to tell us the truth!

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Commentator Mike, @Kent Nationalist

    Why are Trotskyists always like this? Seriously. They seem to always support American interventionism.

    Because they are almost exclusively Jews (in contrast, Stalinists are much more gentile). Obviously not stupid, just deceitful. As always, if you don’t understand the JQ you are putting on blinders.

    The WSW also supports Jewish rapists like DSK (I’m not joking)

  215. @JL
    @Mr. XYZ


    By the way, off-topic, but in regards to the Donbass, why exactly don’t you think that Putin helped Strelkov and his gang back when they still controlled Sloviansk? Why wait until after they had already lost Sloviansk and were near the verge of complete and total defeat before deciding to actually help the Donbass separatists?
     
    This isn't a mystery, Russian public opinion would not allow for a rout of the Donbass rebels and so Russia was forced to intervene. Russia had achieved its strategic goals with Crimea and had no real interest in the Donbass. It was poor strategy on Russia's part, which should have gone either full bore, or worked to quash the rebellion internally, immediately.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @AP, @Mr. XYZ

    Another compatible hypothesis that is sometimes discussed: Strelkov’s adventure was tolerated as a diversion from Crimea. By all accounts, Strelkov had some encouragement from Aksyonov before going to Slavyansk.

  216. @Belarusian Dude
    @The Big Red Scary

    Tbf Strelkov wasnt exactly an amateur. Even before his Ukrainian (mis)adventures he had participated in many successful military actions as leader and commander. The greatest critique would realistically be that despite larping as a white guard his brain was still full of Soviet "brother hood of nations" and similar nonsense. A very large amount of men who served under him lamented how he was hesitant to strike on the Ukrainians. Entire divisions could have been destroyed while they werent organized but Strelkov believed that they could be convinced to defect or stand down. Unfortunately he wasnt very educated in matters Ukrainian and thus wasnt aware of the decades of brainrot that media was feeding to the people there. It is rather sad there was nobody there that was willing to take this decisive action.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    Yes, amateur is an exaggeration. More like taking on a task above his pay grade. And he has admitted this freely. The hope seems to have been to force a real Russian military intervention. The question is whether this was just the fantasy of Strelkov and the Slavyansk militia, or whether they had been given credible hope that a real intervention was likely.

  217. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Levtraro
    @Bashibuzuk


    I don’t see how we can reasonably expect these amounts to be paid.
     
    Well, US gov't debt is constantly being paid, it is being paid as we speak, some of that debt has maturities of just weeks. The debt grows because the rate of erosion is slower than the rate of accretion, not because it is not being paid.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @mal

    The debt grows because the rate of erosion is slower than the rate of accretion, not because it is not being paid.

    So we both agree that the debt is piling up.

    [MORE]

    And it’s piling up at an accelerating rate.

    Do you think it will ever be paid or even just substantially decreased?

    If you think it will, then how can we reasonably expect it to happen short of some catastrophic inflation?

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @Bashibuzuk

    What is relevant is not DEBT but DEBT/GDP (or something similar). That also looks bad, but not quite as catastrophic:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S

    Replies: @mal

  218. @JL
    @Mr. XYZ


    By the way, off-topic, but in regards to the Donbass, why exactly don’t you think that Putin helped Strelkov and his gang back when they still controlled Sloviansk? Why wait until after they had already lost Sloviansk and were near the verge of complete and total defeat before deciding to actually help the Donbass separatists?
     
    This isn't a mystery, Russian public opinion would not allow for a rout of the Donbass rebels and so Russia was forced to intervene. Russia had achieved its strategic goals with Crimea and had no real interest in the Donbass. It was poor strategy on Russia's part, which should have gone either full bore, or worked to quash the rebellion internally, immediately.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @AP, @Mr. XYZ

    Correct, but the intervention, when it was decided, was massive. One of the vice PMs was the same guy who set up the Dnister Republic, PM was from Russia, about 10% of fighters (and probably the best ones, as they were Chechen war vets) were well-armed volunteers from Russia. Plus Rusisan artillery support, advisers, and some troops (Ukrainians didn’t the paratroopers who happened to wander in by accident) etc.

    • Replies: @Insomniac Resurrected
    @AP


    Correct, but the intervention, when it was decided, was massive. One of the vice PMs was the same guy who set up the Dnister Republic, PM was from Russia, about 10% of fighters (and probably the best ones, as they were Chechen war vets) were well-armed volunteers from Russia. Plus Rusisan artillery support, advisers, and some troops (Ukrainians didn’t the paratroopers who happened to wander in by accident) etc.
     
    Russia should have liberated the entire Ukraine from the demented system called Ukraine and establish historical justice upon the land.

    Instead, I guess Putin decided to wait until the Ukrainian self destruct.
    , @Mr. XYZ
    @AP

    "(Ukrainians didn’t the paratroopers who happened to wander in by accident)"

    Did you miss a word here?

    Also, it's quite interesting that AFAIK before August 2014 or so most of the leadership of the Donbass Republics was actually either Russian or some other kind of foreign, such as Transnistrian (as you yourself just said here). It was only in August 2014 or so that Donbass locals began being put in leadership positions in huge numbers.

  219. @Bashibuzuk
    @Levtraro


    The debt grows because the rate of erosion is slower than the rate of accretion, not because it is not being paid.
     
    So we both agree that the debt is piling up.



    https://www.futuretimeline.net/subject/images/us-debt-graph-2020.jpg

    And it's piling up at an accelerating rate.

    Do you think it will ever be paid or even just substantially decreased?

    If you think it will, then how can we reasonably expect it to happen short of some catastrophic inflation?

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    What is relevant is not DEBT but DEBT/GDP (or something similar). That also looks bad, but not quite as catastrophic:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S

    • Replies: @mal
    @The Big Red Scary

    This metric is also a bit misleading, though it's a decent proxy in the US because federal tax revenue is always about 18% GDP regardless of nominal tax rate.

    But if you are looking at total GDP, you should be looking at total systemic debt required to support it. And here it is, in its full glory.

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TCMDO

    Ignore the nominal numbers and look at the shape of the plot - the trend is not our friend here.

  220. @Levtraro
    @mal

    As of today the second largest proportion of US treasuries own by the public is held by foreign agents, so no, they haven't checked out, and there is no run, in no sense whatsoever: the FR is indeed one of the big holders since the 2008 financial crisis but that is not a run, most call it QE.

    Replies: @mal

    Foreigners own only about 1/3 of US public debt (less than $7 trillion) and haven’t really added to their holdings since 2014. And really, they can’t do much more, at least in quantity required.

    https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124

    And QE is effectively a bank run – it is an admission that nobody would by those Treasurys at the official rate, so central bank has to guarantee they will be the buyer.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @mal

    Yes most have no clue about the relationship between the Treasury and the Federal Reserve. Most have no clue what they even do.
    You are correct though - it's all a game. Foreigners as you noted are not really increasing US debt holdings. Russia has basically divested. China is very slowly starting to wind down (though they won't completely). Only US vassal Japan is not divesting - but indeed has been pressured to buy more.

  221. @Levtraro
    @Bashibuzuk


    I don’t see how we can reasonably expect these amounts to be paid.
     
    Well, US gov't debt is constantly being paid, it is being paid as we speak, some of that debt has maturities of just weeks. The debt grows because the rate of erosion is slower than the rate of accretion, not because it is not being paid.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @mal

    It is more proper to call it debt rollover, not repayment. Like when you borrow $100,000 to fund lifestyle and pay off $20,000 credit card. You didn’t really pay off your debt, you got into more debt and simply rolled it.

  222. @The Big Red Scary
    @Bashibuzuk

    What is relevant is not DEBT but DEBT/GDP (or something similar). That also looks bad, but not quite as catastrophic:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S

    Replies: @mal

    This metric is also a bit misleading, though it’s a decent proxy in the US because federal tax revenue is always about 18% GDP regardless of nominal tax rate.

    But if you are looking at total GDP, you should be looking at total systemic debt required to support it. And here it is, in its full glory.

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TCMDO

    Ignore the nominal numbers and look at the shape of the plot – the trend is not our friend here.

    • Agree: The Big Red Scary
    • Thanks: Bashibuzuk
  223. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    At the beginning of 2021 the US official population was 332 million. Unofficially there are 10-20 million more people: illegals, visa overstayers, all kinds of 'visitors' who will never go back. With Biden's amnesty millions will be able to re-unite with their families in US, an estimate is that the chain migration triggered by the amnesty will allow 30 million people to move to US within a generation. In addition there are 1.5 million people each year who immigrate to US legally. Plus the natural growth.

    Yeah, it is heading to 500 million, just add them numbers and wait 25 years.


    a certain percentage of those gaining entrance to the US are entrepreneurial types and higher IQ individuals that take on higher paying professional positions.
     
    You as an old geezer welcome this: cheaper service labor, more nurses, more offshore doctors, all of that appeals to baby boomers. There is a huge cost for younger Americans in this, they have been pushed out and replaced from the bottom (lawn-moving by teenagers) to graduate schools. It's not all positive. The point is that coming Ukraine refugees would be thrown into this global competitive mix and as whites probably do less well than Bandera's generation after WWII. Think it through.

    Replies: @4Dchessmaster, @AP, @Mr. Hack

    You as an old geezer welcome this: cheaper service labor, more nurses, more offshore doctors, all of that appeals to baby boomers

    Your selective memory doesn’t take into account middle aged Americans? What’s there not to like for them, a huge segment of the total population that is strapped with costs trying to raise families?

    The point is that coming Ukraine refugees would be thrown into this global competitive mix and as whites probably do less well than Bandera’s generation after WWII. Think it through.

    Nonsense. Most young Ukrainians that come over today (as versus my parent’s generation) already know English and in fact most even have a college degree in something useful (computer science, biology, engineering.). The ones that don’t seem to be as highly educated often take up jobs as truck drivers, beauticians, personal home companions, etc. The only real complaints by some is that they miss the lifestyle and family that they’ve left behind. A lot of these types go back home at least bi-yearly.

    Also, is the fact that if the population will grow as much as you predict, there will be a huge amount of unfilled jobs to be filled by those that are willing to roll up their sleeves and get to work, right? 🙂

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...the fact that if the population will grow as much as you predict, there will be a huge amount of unfilled jobs
     
    You have just defined a classical pyramid scheme. Why not 700 million? Or a billion? Imagine all the jobs that would supposedly create.

    The modern economy needs a limited workforce. I could enumerate the jobs the economy actually requires, food to medicine etc...but you get the idea. Everything else are mostly bullshit jobs - endless analysts, diversity VP's, grifters of all kinds, etc... Bringing millions of additional migrants is a way to replace more expensive native labor with cheaper migrants, for jobs that need to be done. In latter phases of this labor substitution - as now in US - the cheaper foreign labor is also pumped into the bullshit jobs for political reasons. An ugly downward spiral.

    It makes bosses richer, elderly more comfortable, and young people stuck with huge debts and lower incomes than they would have. The above is not my opinion - it is just math. I can't help you if you can't do math and prefer pretty narratives spun by the ones who benefit from this.

    Abyssus abyssum invocat. Look into it.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  224. @AP
    @blatnoi


    I wouldn’t trust survey results if it’s new.
     
    Look to the 2012 elections, under Yanukovich. Pro-Western parties there won 30%of the vote, compared to only 10% in Donbas. Since pro-Western skews young this means about 50% of young Kharkivites were pro-Western (and 90% older people pro-Russian). Many of the pro-Russians from Kharkiv have fled to Donbas.

    This probably has to do something with what you say about the ‘Azov ultranationalists being based there’, and might be a reason for them ‘being based there’.
     
    They are not only based there, but from there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

    The Azov Battalion has its roots in a group of Ultras of FC Metalist Kharkiv named "Sect 82" (1982 is the year of the founding of the group).[21] "Sect 82" was (at least until September 2013) allied with FC Spartak Moscow Ultras.[21] Late February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian crisis when a separatist movement was active in Kharkiv, "Sect 82" occupied the Kharkiv Oblast regional administration building in Kharkiv and served as a local "self-defense"-force.[21] Soon, on the basis of "Sect 82" there was formed a volunteer militia called "Eastern Corps".[21]

    Their leader is a native of Kharkiv:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Biletsky_(politician)

    His maternal background is interesting:

    Born in 1979 in Kharkiv, Soviet Union, Biletsky's father Yevhen Mykhailovych Biletsky hailed from an old Cossack family that founded the village of Krasnopavlivka (Lozova Raion), while Biletsky's mother Olena Anatolivna Biletsky (née Lukashevych) descended from a noble family from Zhytomyr region, to which belong the Decembrist Vasiliy Lukashevich (Vasyl Lukashevych) who founded the "Little-Russian Secret Society".

    In his youth, Biletsky practiced several types of martial arts and boxing. In 1990 he refused to be accepted into the Vladimir Lenin All-Union Pioneer Organization. Biletsky, along with senior schoolmates, raised the Ukrainian flag over his school.[17] His major patriotic influence in his youth was his father's gift of a book prohibited in the Soviet Union, History of Ukraine for children by Anton Lototsky.[17] In 2001, Biletsky graduated with honors from the History faculty of the University of Kharkiv. His thesis was about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.[5] The same year Biletsky participated in the Ukraine without Kuchma (UBK) protests, for which he was placed under administrative arrest. The Security Service of Ukraine pressured university administration to expel Biletsky from the institution.

    In 2002 Biletsky became a leader of the Kharkiv branch of the political organization Tryzub, and in 2003 cooperated with the Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU) opposing the idea of its transformation into Svoboda.[5

    Replies: @blatnoi, @Insomniac Resurrected, @The Big Red Scary

    They are not only based there, but from there.

    They were also pro-Russian not so long ago before they were coopted by the Ukrainian establishment to join neo-Nazi international and become supporters of pro-Western course.

    This means they are not proper Ukrainian nationalists but rather a group of neo-Nazi thugs, who would serve anyone if they pay is good.

    Biletsky on Ukrainian relations with Russia.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Insomniac Resurrected


    They were also pro-Russian not so long ago
     
    Before 2014?

    Biletsky on Ukrainian relations with Russia
     
    One can always post certain things in certain contexts. Biletsky has been a far right Ukrainian activist his entire adult life:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Biletsky_(politician)

    In his youth, Biletsky practiced several types of martial arts and boxing. In 1990 he refused to be accepted into the Vladimir Lenin All-Union Pioneer Organization. Biletsky, along with senior schoolmates, raised the Ukrainian flag over his school.[17] His major patriotic influence in his youth was his father's gift of a book prohibited in the Soviet Union, History of Ukraine for children by Anton Lototsky.[17] In 2001, Biletsky graduated with honors from the History faculty of the University of Kharkiv. His thesis was about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.[5] The same year Biletsky participated in the Ukraine without Kuchma (UBK) protests, for which he was placed under administrative arrest. The Security Service of Ukraine pressured university administration to expel Biletsky from the institution.

    In 2002 Biletsky became a leader of the Kharkiv branch of the political organization Tryzub, and in 2003 cooperated with the Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU) opposing the idea of its transformation into Svoboda.[5]
    , @Mr. XYZ
    @Insomniac Resurrected

    When is that clip from? As in, what year?

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @Insomniac Resurrected

    I knew that Biletskyi was far from stupid, but now that I heard his thoughts on this matter, I actually start to respect him. He is absolutely correct in what he says. If Eastern Slavs want to ensure their survival and domination of the Eurasian landmass, then they need a confederation of all the populations descended from the ancient Rus.

    I have written about it several times in my comments on this site.

    This is actually a no-brainer. And that is precisely why homicidal clowns that govern in both Moscow and Kiev did everything possible to ensure that this confederation becomes very hard to build. These corrupt subhuman hedonistic scum are working against the real interests of the people they supposedly represent. They are like maggots feasting on wounds of both Russian and Ukrainian people.

    But we should not despair, nothing is permanent, this era of hedonism, loss of respect for anything sacred and overwhelming corruption will also fade away one day. There certainly were worse times for the sons of Rus, and there will certainly be better days.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AP

  225. @AP
    @JL

    Correct, but the intervention, when it was decided, was massive. One of the vice PMs was the same guy who set up the Dnister Republic, PM was from Russia, about 10% of fighters (and probably the best ones, as they were Chechen war vets) were well-armed volunteers from Russia. Plus Rusisan artillery support, advisers, and some troops (Ukrainians didn't the paratroopers who happened to wander in by accident) etc.

    Replies: @Insomniac Resurrected, @Mr. XYZ

    Correct, but the intervention, when it was decided, was massive. One of the vice PMs was the same guy who set up the Dnister Republic, PM was from Russia, about 10% of fighters (and probably the best ones, as they were Chechen war vets) were well-armed volunteers from Russia. Plus Rusisan artillery support, advisers, and some troops (Ukrainians didn’t the paratroopers who happened to wander in by accident) etc.

    Russia should have liberated the entire Ukraine from the demented system called Ukraine and establish historical justice upon the land.

    Instead, I guess Putin decided to wait until the Ukrainian self destruct.

    • Troll: Mr. Hack
  226. AP says:
    @Insomniac Resurrected
    @AP


    They are not only based there, but from there.
     
    They were also pro-Russian not so long ago before they were coopted by the Ukrainian establishment to join neo-Nazi international and become supporters of pro-Western course.

    This means they are not proper Ukrainian nationalists but rather a group of neo-Nazi thugs, who would serve anyone if they pay is good.

    Biletsky on Ukrainian relations with Russia.

    https://youtu.be/pahO92iq3E8

    Replies: @AP, @Mr. XYZ, @Bashibuzuk

    They were also pro-Russian not so long ago

    Before 2014?

    Biletsky on Ukrainian relations with Russia

    One can always post certain things in certain contexts. Biletsky has been a far right Ukrainian activist his entire adult life:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Biletsky_(politician)

    In his youth, Biletsky practiced several types of martial arts and boxing. In 1990 he refused to be accepted into the Vladimir Lenin All-Union Pioneer Organization. Biletsky, along with senior schoolmates, raised the Ukrainian flag over his school.[17] His major patriotic influence in his youth was his father’s gift of a book prohibited in the Soviet Union, History of Ukraine for children by Anton Lototsky.[17] In 2001, Biletsky graduated with honors from the History faculty of the University of Kharkiv. His thesis was about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.[5] The same year Biletsky participated in the Ukraine without Kuchma (UBK) protests, for which he was placed under administrative arrest. The Security Service of Ukraine pressured university administration to expel Biletsky from the institution.

    In 2002 Biletsky became a leader of the Kharkiv branch of the political organization Tryzub, and in 2003 cooperated with the Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU) opposing the idea of its transformation into Svoboda.[5]

  227. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    You as an old geezer welcome this: cheaper service labor, more nurses, more offshore doctors, all of that appeals to baby boomers
     
    Your selective memory doesn't take into account middle aged Americans? What's there not to like for them, a huge segment of the total population that is strapped with costs trying to raise families?

    The point is that coming Ukraine refugees would be thrown into this global competitive mix and as whites probably do less well than Bandera’s generation after WWII. Think it through.

     

    Nonsense. Most young Ukrainians that come over today (as versus my parent's generation) already know English and in fact most even have a college degree in something useful (computer science, biology, engineering.). The ones that don't seem to be as highly educated often take up jobs as truck drivers, beauticians, personal home companions, etc. The only real complaints by some is that they miss the lifestyle and family that they've left behind. A lot of these types go back home at least bi-yearly.
     Also, is the fact that if the population will grow as much as you predict, there will be a huge amount of unfilled jobs to be filled by those that are willing to roll up their sleeves and get to work, right? :-)

    Replies: @Beckow

    …the fact that if the population will grow as much as you predict, there will be a huge amount of unfilled jobs

    You have just defined a classical pyramid scheme. Why not 700 million? Or a billion? Imagine all the jobs that would supposedly create.

    The modern economy needs a limited workforce. I could enumerate the jobs the economy actually requires, food to medicine etc…but you get the idea. Everything else are mostly bullshit jobs – endless analysts, diversity VP’s, grifters of all kinds, etc… Bringing millions of additional migrants is a way to replace more expensive native labor with cheaper migrants, for jobs that need to be done. In latter phases of this labor substitution – as now in US – the cheaper foreign labor is also pumped into the bullshit jobs for political reasons. An ugly downward spiral.

    It makes bosses richer, elderly more comfortable, and young people stuck with huge debts and lower incomes than they would have. The above is not my opinion – it is just math. I can’t help you if you can’t do math and prefer pretty narratives spun by the ones who benefit from this.

    Abyssus abyssum invocat. Look into it.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    Way to many "pyramid schemes" and other conspiracy theories seem to abound in the world that you inhabit, Beckow? Only jobs in the "food and medicine" sectors are needed in the world that you live in? Really? A pretty simple world for a simpleton like thinker to analyze. :-)

    Replies: @Beckow

  228. @mal
    @AP


    Best case scenario for Russia us that it becomes as rich as Italy in 20 years.
     
    Being as rich as Italy without Italian debt load and EU constraints is a pretty good goal to aim for.

    Worst case for USA is it becomes as poor as Canada, or France. Canada and France are a lot richer than Italy. Even UK is.
     
    Nominally, yes. US demographics will turn for the worse in about six years (last time US had above replacement TFR and migrate rate was 2007, so i figure by 2027 shortages of breeding age people will start driving consumption down).

    But it will come down to culture. US will have woke religion running wild, and very unequal concentration of wealth. Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability. Depending on how US chooses to play this, it can be very bad for young people. Unless US drives interest rates negative to extinguish it, my kids will have better future in Russia than US, if they choose to go.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Bill Jones

    Every baby born today in US carries $8.5 million government debt liability.

    Thank God none of them are White.

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
  229. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...the fact that if the population will grow as much as you predict, there will be a huge amount of unfilled jobs
     
    You have just defined a classical pyramid scheme. Why not 700 million? Or a billion? Imagine all the jobs that would supposedly create.

    The modern economy needs a limited workforce. I could enumerate the jobs the economy actually requires, food to medicine etc...but you get the idea. Everything else are mostly bullshit jobs - endless analysts, diversity VP's, grifters of all kinds, etc... Bringing millions of additional migrants is a way to replace more expensive native labor with cheaper migrants, for jobs that need to be done. In latter phases of this labor substitution - as now in US - the cheaper foreign labor is also pumped into the bullshit jobs for political reasons. An ugly downward spiral.

    It makes bosses richer, elderly more comfortable, and young people stuck with huge debts and lower incomes than they would have. The above is not my opinion - it is just math. I can't help you if you can't do math and prefer pretty narratives spun by the ones who benefit from this.

    Abyssus abyssum invocat. Look into it.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Way to many “pyramid schemes” and other conspiracy theories seem to abound in the world that you inhabit, Beckow? Only jobs in the “food and medicine” sectors are needed in the world that you live in? Really? A pretty simple world for a simpleton like thinker to analyze. 🙂

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    You can neither read nor reason, so this is pointless. Go back to your elderly boomer bliss and wait for the abyss to come. Remember, it was the likes of you who destroyed your own progeny (if you have any), and that is the worst thing any generation can do.

  230. @AP
    @Beckow


    Given the utter dysfunction of the American administration on all levels it is very improbable that the official figures include the categories I listed.
     
    America is not Slovakia, which undercounts its gypsy population. There was a fight in the USA because Trump did not want illegals, who are very much counted, to be used for purposes of political redistricting. So yes, they are counted. It is actually very valuable to count them, their presence adds to a place's political power and to the amount of money a city receives in aid. So during the census each city tries to count as many illegals (or anybody) as possible. The more it finds, the more money it gets for schools and other things. If corruption plays a role, illegals will if anything be overcounted.

    You say it’s going to 400 million, I will raise you to 500 million
     
    And "mal" says it won't even be 320 million. But we know how you invent numbers.

    They will come and there will be 500 million people.
     
    Not according to any estimates, only according to your dreams. Actual estimates:

    https://i.imgur.com/SJIw9QO.png


    There are about 4-5 billion people in Africa
     
    And less than 3 million in the USA. Immigrants from Africa are not even 1% of the population. Moreover, the ones here are mostly their educated ones, they work as chemists, or physicians or whatever. Some of them are white South Africans.

    Mass immigration from Africa is a European, not American issue. We mostly get the noisy, but friendly, half-European Latinos.


    Then the living standards will be what exactly?
     
    About the same, for the hundreds of million of middle to upper middle class people who would be segregated from the newcomers. There are enough prosperous people in America that when they self-segregate they are not living in fortified enclaves as in South Africa or Latin America, but in large areas the sizes of European countries. But you are a dreamer, with your own fantasies of 500 million, squalor, etc. Remind me again what is the projected gypsy population in your country for 2050? They are unofficially about 10% now, and growing.

    Replies: @Beckow, @reiner Tor

    …There are enough prosperous people in America that when they self-segregate they are not living in fortified enclaves as in South Africa or Latin America

    As Augustine wisely said, “not yet“. Give it some time and the numbers will do the work. You also know that I listed a number of sources for the wanting to come 4-5 billion (LA, India, Asia…), so your bizarre focus on only Africans is deceptive. Yes, Western Europe is also up the sh.tcreek.

    You have a soft spot for what you call half-white (?) Latins (with high PISSA scores), but what you get are a few upper-middle class people and a huge mass of cholos with average IQ around 80 and a height of a bar-stool. If you think that prosperous societies are built on that go and visit Latin America.

    And what is your obsession with the Gypsies? Do you work for Soros and his minions? In the last census there were 50k in Czechia and 100k in Slovakia. (In Hungary there are 300k and in Romania…well, don’t get me started, they call themselves “Roma” for a reason.) That is 2-3%.

    There are certainly more of them, Gypsy identity is fluid and maybe about half have been absorbed in the last centuries into the majority population. Some you could call “Roma”, others not. That is 2% of the population and has been stable since WWII. There are some dysfunctional Gypsy communities in the former Sudetenland where they settled them after WWII and in eastern Slovakia, but they are in tens of thousands and a lot less of an issue than millions new migrants in Brussels, Paris, London, or even Vienna. In our bigger cities you can walk around for weeks without seeing one who can be identified. But if like a child you like to argue with “your mother has big ears“, I can’t help you. It is nonsense and has no impact on what is going in the West.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    You also know that I listed a number of sources for the wanting to come 4-5 billion (LA, India, Asia…), so your bizarre focus on only Africans is deceptive.
     
    I also mentioned Latinos. They are the only ones that matter, the others come in marginal numbers. You mention India - India is about 1% of the US population. USA gets mostly Brahmins who work as scientists, doctors, engineers. They are the richest ethnic group in the USA. This brings some problems too (my Indian colleagues are very nice to me, but I've heard stories that they people who serve them such as maids poorly, perhaps due to their caste system mentality). Not a lot of Chinese either.

    You have a soft spot for what you call half-white (?) Latins (with high PISSA scores), but what you get are a few upper-middle class people and a huge mass of cholos with average IQ around 80 and a height of a bar-stool.
     
    Average Hispanic IQ is 89, about the same as that of Balkanoids. As I wrote, they tend to be noisy but are friendly. They are Catholics, and more like Slavs than cold Germanics are. Mestizos are about half of European descent; Puerto Ricans slightly more. USA gets Latinos, Europe gets Arabs and Africans.

    Latinos average height is 169.5 cm. Taller than that of Afghans coming into Europe. Why does it matter?

    And what is your obsession with the Gypsies? Do you work for Soros and his minions? In the last census there were 50k in Czechia and 100k in Slovakia. (In Hungary there are 300k and in Romania…well, don’t get me started, they call themselves “Roma” for a reason.) That is 2-3%.
     
    As I explained to you, USA incentivizes maximum counting of people so numbers are accurate (they may even exaggerate). But your country seems to undercount. Various estimates place true percentage of gypsies as Slovak population in the range of 7% to 10%.

    Replies: @Beckow

  231. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    Way to many "pyramid schemes" and other conspiracy theories seem to abound in the world that you inhabit, Beckow? Only jobs in the "food and medicine" sectors are needed in the world that you live in? Really? A pretty simple world for a simpleton like thinker to analyze. :-)

    Replies: @Beckow

    You can neither read nor reason, so this is pointless. Go back to your elderly boomer bliss and wait for the abyss to come. Remember, it was the likes of you who destroyed your own progeny (if you have any), and that is the worst thing any generation can do.

    • Disagree: Mr. Hack
  232. https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/6616984.html

    It seems they are today as dumb as they were in 2014.

  233. @JL
    @Mr. XYZ


    By the way, off-topic, but in regards to the Donbass, why exactly don’t you think that Putin helped Strelkov and his gang back when they still controlled Sloviansk? Why wait until after they had already lost Sloviansk and were near the verge of complete and total defeat before deciding to actually help the Donbass separatists?
     
    This isn't a mystery, Russian public opinion would not allow for a rout of the Donbass rebels and so Russia was forced to intervene. Russia had achieved its strategic goals with Crimea and had no real interest in the Donbass. It was poor strategy on Russia's part, which should have gone either full bore, or worked to quash the rebellion internally, immediately.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @AP, @Mr. XYZ

    I know why Russia ultimately did decide to intervene; rather, I’m wondering why exactly Russia didn’t intervene earlier, back when the Donbass separatists still controlled Sloviansk.

  234. @AP
    @JL

    Correct, but the intervention, when it was decided, was massive. One of the vice PMs was the same guy who set up the Dnister Republic, PM was from Russia, about 10% of fighters (and probably the best ones, as they were Chechen war vets) were well-armed volunteers from Russia. Plus Rusisan artillery support, advisers, and some troops (Ukrainians didn't the paratroopers who happened to wander in by accident) etc.

    Replies: @Insomniac Resurrected, @Mr. XYZ

    “(Ukrainians didn’t the paratroopers who happened to wander in by accident)”

    Did you miss a word here?

    Also, it’s quite interesting that AFAIK before August 2014 or so most of the leadership of the Donbass Republics was actually either Russian or some other kind of foreign, such as Transnistrian (as you yourself just said here). It was only in August 2014 or so that Donbass locals began being put in leadership positions in huge numbers.

  235. @Insomniac Resurrected
    @AP


    They are not only based there, but from there.
     
    They were also pro-Russian not so long ago before they were coopted by the Ukrainian establishment to join neo-Nazi international and become supporters of pro-Western course.

    This means they are not proper Ukrainian nationalists but rather a group of neo-Nazi thugs, who would serve anyone if they pay is good.

    Biletsky on Ukrainian relations with Russia.

    https://youtu.be/pahO92iq3E8

    Replies: @AP, @Mr. XYZ, @Bashibuzuk

    When is that clip from? As in, what year?

  236. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Insomniac Resurrected
    @AP


    They are not only based there, but from there.
     
    They were also pro-Russian not so long ago before they were coopted by the Ukrainian establishment to join neo-Nazi international and become supporters of pro-Western course.

    This means they are not proper Ukrainian nationalists but rather a group of neo-Nazi thugs, who would serve anyone if they pay is good.

    Biletsky on Ukrainian relations with Russia.

    https://youtu.be/pahO92iq3E8

    Replies: @AP, @Mr. XYZ, @Bashibuzuk

    I knew that Biletskyi was far from stupid, but now that I heard his thoughts on this matter, I actually start to respect him. He is absolutely correct in what he says. If Eastern Slavs want to ensure their survival and domination of the Eurasian landmass, then they need a confederation of all the populations descended from the ancient Rus.

    I have written about it several times in my comments on this site.

    This is actually a no-brainer. And that is precisely why homicidal clowns that govern in both Moscow and Kiev did everything possible to ensure that this confederation becomes very hard to build. These corrupt subhuman hedonistic scum are working against the real interests of the people they supposedly represent. They are like maggots feasting on wounds of both Russian and Ukrainian people.

    But we should not despair, nothing is permanent, this era of hedonism, loss of respect for anything sacred and overwhelming corruption will also fade away one day. There certainly were worse times for the sons of Rus, and there will certainly be better days.

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Bashibuzuk

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/22052011-pavlo-skoropadsky-and-the-course-of-russian-ukrainian-relations-analysis/

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    Biletsky is right...ideally. However, for practical purposes it isn't workable. There is just just too much of a discrepancy in size, there are 4.5 times as many Russians as there are Ukrainians. Any confederation would thus inevitably end in Russian domination, which would mean suppression of local Ukrainian culture. This is exactly what happened each time a confederation was attempted before. For this reason, a better confederation partner for Ukraine would be another Slavic country with a similar population. This one exists, to the West. But it would be good for this confederation to have friendly relations, perhaps even an alliance, with Russia one day.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Mikhail

  237. @Bashibuzuk
    @Insomniac Resurrected

    I knew that Biletskyi was far from stupid, but now that I heard his thoughts on this matter, I actually start to respect him. He is absolutely correct in what he says. If Eastern Slavs want to ensure their survival and domination of the Eurasian landmass, then they need a confederation of all the populations descended from the ancient Rus.

    I have written about it several times in my comments on this site.

    This is actually a no-brainer. And that is precisely why homicidal clowns that govern in both Moscow and Kiev did everything possible to ensure that this confederation becomes very hard to build. These corrupt subhuman hedonistic scum are working against the real interests of the people they supposedly represent. They are like maggots feasting on wounds of both Russian and Ukrainian people.

    But we should not despair, nothing is permanent, this era of hedonism, loss of respect for anything sacred and overwhelming corruption will also fade away one day. There certainly were worse times for the sons of Rus, and there will certainly be better days.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AP

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Mikhail

    If one day this confederation sees the day, I sincerely hope that there would be no question of domination and submission by any ethnic group, whether Slav or any other native ethnicity of this vast territory. There is a way, I believe, to learn to respect each other and work together for the betterment of all.

    If the capital city is Kiev, Moscow or Minsk is not that important. What is important is ensuring the survival and a healthy growth of the native populations along with the betterment of their standard of living, through economic, cultural and technological development for the benefit of all. Also natural riches of the land should be exploited only as long as it benefits the native populations. To get there the corrupt parasites should be terminated. Otherwise it will be them who would terminate the populations that they hold hostage.

    And just to make myself very clear: I agree with Biletskyi about the need for a confederation, but I disagree that there is a need to terrorize innocent civilians or destroy tradional religion and culture to get there. Mozgovoy, who was a Communist also believed that Ukrainians and Russians should unite in their fight against the parasitic elite and to ensure the reconstruction of a functioning and developing society. I agree with Mozgovoy about the need to unite against the common enemy: the parasitic elite, but I disagree with his internationalism and egalitarianism.

    BTW, it is because he was against the cleptocratic elites of both Russia and Ukraine that Mozgovoy got ambushed and killed. Perhaps Biletskyi will also be liquidated one day if he speaks too loud about what he mentioned in that interview excerpt.

    This war is very useful to get rid of the passionate Slavs. Each time one of them dies, the puppet-masters that led to this mayhem are probably very satisfied.

  238. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...There are enough prosperous people in America that when they self-segregate they are not living in fortified enclaves as in South Africa or Latin America
     
    As Augustine wisely said, "not yet". Give it some time and the numbers will do the work. You also know that I listed a number of sources for the wanting to come 4-5 billion (LA, India, Asia...), so your bizarre focus on only Africans is deceptive. Yes, Western Europe is also up the sh.tcreek.

    You have a soft spot for what you call half-white (?) Latins (with high PISSA scores), but what you get are a few upper-middle class people and a huge mass of cholos with average IQ around 80 and a height of a bar-stool. If you think that prosperous societies are built on that go and visit Latin America.

    And what is your obsession with the Gypsies? Do you work for Soros and his minions? In the last census there were 50k in Czechia and 100k in Slovakia. (In Hungary there are 300k and in Romania...well, don't get me started, they call themselves "Roma" for a reason.) That is 2-3%.

    There are certainly more of them, Gypsy identity is fluid and maybe about half have been absorbed in the last centuries into the majority population. Some you could call "Roma", others not. That is 2% of the population and has been stable since WWII. There are some dysfunctional Gypsy communities in the former Sudetenland where they settled them after WWII and in eastern Slovakia, but they are in tens of thousands and a lot less of an issue than millions new migrants in Brussels, Paris, London, or even Vienna. In our bigger cities you can walk around for weeks without seeing one who can be identified. But if like a child you like to argue with "your mother has big ears", I can't help you. It is nonsense and has no impact on what is going in the West.

    Replies: @AP

    You also know that I listed a number of sources for the wanting to come 4-5 billion (LA, India, Asia…), so your bizarre focus on only Africans is deceptive.

    I also mentioned Latinos. They are the only ones that matter, the others come in marginal numbers. You mention India – India is about 1% of the US population. USA gets mostly Brahmins who work as scientists, doctors, engineers. They are the richest ethnic group in the USA. This brings some problems too (my Indian colleagues are very nice to me, but I’ve heard stories that they people who serve them such as maids poorly, perhaps due to their caste system mentality). Not a lot of Chinese either.

    You have a soft spot for what you call half-white (?) Latins (with high PISSA scores), but what you get are a few upper-middle class people and a huge mass of cholos with average IQ around 80 and a height of a bar-stool.

    Average Hispanic IQ is 89, about the same as that of Balkanoids. As I wrote, they tend to be noisy but are friendly. They are Catholics, and more like Slavs than cold Germanics are. Mestizos are about half of European descent; Puerto Ricans slightly more. USA gets Latinos, Europe gets Arabs and Africans.

    Latinos average height is 169.5 cm. Taller than that of Afghans coming into Europe. Why does it matter?

    And what is your obsession with the Gypsies? Do you work for Soros and his minions? In the last census there were 50k in Czechia and 100k in Slovakia. (In Hungary there are 300k and in Romania…well, don’t get me started, they call themselves “Roma” for a reason.) That is 2-3%.

    As I explained to you, USA incentivizes maximum counting of people so numbers are accurate (they may even exaggerate). But your country seems to undercount. Various estimates place true percentage of gypsies as Slovak population in the range of 7% to 10%.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    Look, I won't take away your sub-170 cm cholos with 89 IQ, enjoy them. They are noisy, mostly harmless, and girls have a good 5 years of decent looks mating window. Just remember they are not going to the Moon or really fix your plumbing. Cholos are cholos, if they are 1/2 "white", it must be he scum-baggy half; the one summarized in "I am going to America so I don't have to work and to screw Indian women". That's how you got cholos, they won't be running the world.

    Your obsession with Gypsies is amusing. In all countries of the former Habsburg Empire the administration is superb - they miss nothing, they know everything, IDs, residences, etc... That was the quiet annoying appeal of Habsburg bureaucracy. Compared to that US administration is a random table in some warehouse with stupid ladies who don't know how to count, and do no cross-checking for accuracy. I am not advocating it - it is exhausting - but at least bark up the right tree.

    Your "various estimates" are nonsense, you can't invent people who don't exist. Everyone in Central Europe has a registration and it shows your ethnicity - bureaucrats will call you on it if they think you are lying. The 2-3% that I gave you are official, validated numbers, with names and residences attached. The Soros minions try to find more Gypsies by claiming that many Gypsies hide in the mainstream society and don't disclose that they are of Gypsy origin. That is true - there are thousands who went mainstream over the years who are of partial (or even full) Gypsy origin. But they are like everyone else, why is that a problem? The numbers are relatively small and as I told you they have been stable since WWII.

    What is your obsession about? Do you like swarthy mestizo-like creatures so much you see them everywhere?

    Replies: @AP

  239. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Mikhail
    @Bashibuzuk

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/22052011-pavlo-skoropadsky-and-the-course-of-russian-ukrainian-relations-analysis/

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    If one day this confederation sees the day, I sincerely hope that there would be no question of domination and submission by any ethnic group, whether Slav or any other native ethnicity of this vast territory. There is a way, I believe, to learn to respect each other and work together for the betterment of all.

    If the capital city is Kiev, Moscow or Minsk is not that important. What is important is ensuring the survival and a healthy growth of the native populations along with the betterment of their standard of living, through economic, cultural and technological development for the benefit of all. Also natural riches of the land should be exploited only as long as it benefits the native populations. To get there the corrupt parasites should be terminated. Otherwise it will be them who would terminate the populations that they hold hostage.

    And just to make myself very clear: I agree with Biletskyi about the need for a confederation, but I disagree that there is a need to terrorize innocent civilians or destroy tradional religion and culture to get there. Mozgovoy, who was a Communist also believed that Ukrainians and Russians should unite in their fight against the parasitic elite and to ensure the reconstruction of a functioning and developing society. I agree with Mozgovoy about the need to unite against the common enemy: the parasitic elite, but I disagree with his internationalism and egalitarianism.

    BTW, it is because he was against the cleptocratic elites of both Russia and Ukraine that Mozgovoy got ambushed and killed. Perhaps Biletskyi will also be liquidated one day if he speaks too loud about what he mentioned in that interview excerpt.

    This war is very useful to get rid of the passionate Slavs. Each time one of them dies, the puppet-masters that led to this mayhem are probably very satisfied.

  240. @Bashibuzuk
    @Insomniac Resurrected

    I knew that Biletskyi was far from stupid, but now that I heard his thoughts on this matter, I actually start to respect him. He is absolutely correct in what he says. If Eastern Slavs want to ensure their survival and domination of the Eurasian landmass, then they need a confederation of all the populations descended from the ancient Rus.

    I have written about it several times in my comments on this site.

    This is actually a no-brainer. And that is precisely why homicidal clowns that govern in both Moscow and Kiev did everything possible to ensure that this confederation becomes very hard to build. These corrupt subhuman hedonistic scum are working against the real interests of the people they supposedly represent. They are like maggots feasting on wounds of both Russian and Ukrainian people.

    But we should not despair, nothing is permanent, this era of hedonism, loss of respect for anything sacred and overwhelming corruption will also fade away one day. There certainly were worse times for the sons of Rus, and there will certainly be better days.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AP

    Biletsky is right…ideally. However, for practical purposes it isn’t workable. There is just just too much of a discrepancy in size, there are 4.5 times as many Russians as there are Ukrainians. Any confederation would thus inevitably end in Russian domination, which would mean suppression of local Ukrainian culture. This is exactly what happened each time a confederation was attempted before. For this reason, a better confederation partner for Ukraine would be another Slavic country with a similar population. This one exists, to the West. But it would be good for this confederation to have friendly relations, perhaps even an alliance, with Russia one day.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    Adding Poland to the mix is not a bad idea that might indeed provide some balance.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Mikhail
    @AP


    Any confederation would thus inevitably end in Russian domination, which would mean suppression of local Ukrainian culture. This is exactly what happened each time a confederation was attempted before. For this reason, a better confederation partner for Ukraine would be another Slavic country with a similar population. This one exists, to the West. But it would be good for this confederation to have friendly relations, perhaps even an alliance, with Russia one day.
     
    A mix of Polish nationalist and svido BS. The Polish inspired creation of the Unia (Greek Catholic) was done in part to increase the differences between the people identifying with Rus, of which Russia became the strongest and most independent of Rus land following the Mongol subjugation.

    As has been noted before, there's good reason why modern day Russia, Ukraine and Belarus identify with Rus in a way that Poland doesn't.

    Replies: @AP

  241. @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    Biletsky is right...ideally. However, for practical purposes it isn't workable. There is just just too much of a discrepancy in size, there are 4.5 times as many Russians as there are Ukrainians. Any confederation would thus inevitably end in Russian domination, which would mean suppression of local Ukrainian culture. This is exactly what happened each time a confederation was attempted before. For this reason, a better confederation partner for Ukraine would be another Slavic country with a similar population. This one exists, to the West. But it would be good for this confederation to have friendly relations, perhaps even an alliance, with Russia one day.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Mikhail

    Adding Poland to the mix is not a bad idea that might indeed provide some balance.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    So you would have about 80 million Poles + Ukrainians versus 140 million Russians. What if a large majority of Russians vote to replace the Polish and Ukrainian languages with the Russian language? Or make the Russian Orthodox Church based in Moscow the only Church, because it will be free of non-Slavic influence unlike the Catholic ones linked to the Vatican and the OCU linked to Istanbul? Or give all industries to Moscow-backed oligarchs? They will outvote the Poles and Ukrainians. Russia is simply too big and populous to be a union partner with other Slavic nations who care about their local customs and culture. Belarussians don't seem to care, it's okay for them. But not for the others.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Bashibuzuk, @Anatoly Karlin

  242. The only certainty I have is that if Ukraine decides to attack Donbass we will end up sanctioning… Russia.

    Unless maybe the Russians decide to do nothing and let Ukrainians carry out another bloodbath on fellow Russophones, which we would do nothing to avoid. But even then I wouldn’t discard sanctioning the Russians on some pretext.

    This is all so stupid. It was bad enough for Ukraine’s east/west tensions to end up in a civil war. But for them to lead to a new Cold War is insane. Ironically, NATO’s main goal has become to protect the sanctity of the borders drawn by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.

    It was inevitable that the dissolution of a state like the USSR would lead to many people living on the wrong side of the new national borders and full enclaves inhabited by ethnic minorities. If not the US, the EU should have tried, in its own interest, to mediate in these disputes and try to solve them peacefully. Instead the idiots deciced to take sides in the disputes, invariably against nuclear superpower Russia. And the world has become a much more dangerous place for everybody, including the 99% of people who didn’t know that Donbass existed until 2014 and most of whom still don’t know it.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk, Mikhail, Beckow
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mikel

    The logic of endless sanctions is a logic of war. The aim is to press Russia until it succumbs and gives West a war. Or surrenders. War is more likely.

    We live in a hiatus - life is on hold. Years ago there was a US academic who stupidly declared the end of history. It was nonsense at that time, but the situation today looks like the end of history. In the last year there is no longer any place to move to or to pretend that growth and progress will solve everything. The problems can no longer be postponed, imbalances are too big, numbers don't add up, ruling men are unsure of their gender and many women have gone fully hysterical. It is hard to climb down and nobody even tries any longer. Waiting for Franz Ferdinand.

  243. @Mikel
    The only certainty I have is that if Ukraine decides to attack Donbass we will end up sanctioning... Russia.

    Unless maybe the Russians decide to do nothing and let Ukrainians carry out another bloodbath on fellow Russophones, which we would do nothing to avoid. But even then I wouldn't discard sanctioning the Russians on some pretext.

    This is all so stupid. It was bad enough for Ukraine's east/west tensions to end up in a civil war. But for them to lead to a new Cold War is insane. Ironically, NATO's main goal has become to protect the sanctity of the borders drawn by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.

    It was inevitable that the dissolution of a state like the USSR would lead to many people living on the wrong side of the new national borders and full enclaves inhabited by ethnic minorities. If not the US, the EU should have tried, in its own interest, to mediate in these disputes and try to solve them peacefully. Instead the idiots deciced to take sides in the disputes, invariably against nuclear superpower Russia. And the world has become a much more dangerous place for everybody, including the 99% of people who didn't know that Donbass existed until 2014 and most of whom still don't know it.

    Replies: @Beckow

    The logic of endless sanctions is a logic of war. The aim is to press Russia until it succumbs and gives West a war. Or surrenders. War is more likely.

    We live in a hiatus – life is on hold. Years ago there was a US academic who stupidly declared the end of history. It was nonsense at that time, but the situation today looks like the end of history. In the last year there is no longer any place to move to or to pretend that growth and progress will solve everything. The problems can no longer be postponed, imbalances are too big, numbers don’t add up, ruling men are unsure of their gender and many women have gone fully hysterical. It is hard to climb down and nobody even tries any longer. Waiting for Franz Ferdinand.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  244. @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    Biletsky is right...ideally. However, for practical purposes it isn't workable. There is just just too much of a discrepancy in size, there are 4.5 times as many Russians as there are Ukrainians. Any confederation would thus inevitably end in Russian domination, which would mean suppression of local Ukrainian culture. This is exactly what happened each time a confederation was attempted before. For this reason, a better confederation partner for Ukraine would be another Slavic country with a similar population. This one exists, to the West. But it would be good for this confederation to have friendly relations, perhaps even an alliance, with Russia one day.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Mikhail

    Any confederation would thus inevitably end in Russian domination, which would mean suppression of local Ukrainian culture. This is exactly what happened each time a confederation was attempted before. For this reason, a better confederation partner for Ukraine would be another Slavic country with a similar population. This one exists, to the West. But it would be good for this confederation to have friendly relations, perhaps even an alliance, with Russia one day.

    A mix of Polish nationalist and svido BS. The Polish inspired creation of the Unia (Greek Catholic) was done in part to increase the differences between the people identifying with Rus, of which Russia became the strongest and most independent of Rus land following the Mongol subjugation.

    As has been noted before, there’s good reason why modern day Russia, Ukraine and Belarus identify with Rus in a way that Poland doesn’t.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mikhail


    The Polish inspired creation of the Unia (Greek Catholic) was done in part to increase the differences between the people identifying with Rus
     
    Or maybe the Rus adoption of Orthodoxy divided the Polyany Slavs of what is now Ukraine from their brothers in Poland?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Mikhail

  245. @AP
    @Beckow


    You also know that I listed a number of sources for the wanting to come 4-5 billion (LA, India, Asia…), so your bizarre focus on only Africans is deceptive.
     
    I also mentioned Latinos. They are the only ones that matter, the others come in marginal numbers. You mention India - India is about 1% of the US population. USA gets mostly Brahmins who work as scientists, doctors, engineers. They are the richest ethnic group in the USA. This brings some problems too (my Indian colleagues are very nice to me, but I've heard stories that they people who serve them such as maids poorly, perhaps due to their caste system mentality). Not a lot of Chinese either.

    You have a soft spot for what you call half-white (?) Latins (with high PISSA scores), but what you get are a few upper-middle class people and a huge mass of cholos with average IQ around 80 and a height of a bar-stool.
     
    Average Hispanic IQ is 89, about the same as that of Balkanoids. As I wrote, they tend to be noisy but are friendly. They are Catholics, and more like Slavs than cold Germanics are. Mestizos are about half of European descent; Puerto Ricans slightly more. USA gets Latinos, Europe gets Arabs and Africans.

    Latinos average height is 169.5 cm. Taller than that of Afghans coming into Europe. Why does it matter?

    And what is your obsession with the Gypsies? Do you work for Soros and his minions? In the last census there were 50k in Czechia and 100k in Slovakia. (In Hungary there are 300k and in Romania…well, don’t get me started, they call themselves “Roma” for a reason.) That is 2-3%.
     
    As I explained to you, USA incentivizes maximum counting of people so numbers are accurate (they may even exaggerate). But your country seems to undercount. Various estimates place true percentage of gypsies as Slovak population in the range of 7% to 10%.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Look, I won’t take away your sub-170 cm cholos with 89 IQ, enjoy them. They are noisy, mostly harmless, and girls have a good 5 years of decent looks mating window. Just remember they are not going to the Moon or really fix your plumbing. Cholos are cholos, if they are 1/2 “white”, it must be he scum-baggy half; the one summarized in “I am going to America so I don’t have to work and to screw Indian women“. That’s how you got cholos, they won’t be running the world.

    Your obsession with Gypsies is amusing. In all countries of the former Habsburg Empire the administration is superb – they miss nothing, they know everything, IDs, residences, etc… That was the quiet annoying appeal of Habsburg bureaucracy. Compared to that US administration is a random table in some warehouse with stupid ladies who don’t know how to count, and do no cross-checking for accuracy. I am not advocating it – it is exhausting – but at least bark up the right tree.

    Your “various estimates” are nonsense, you can’t invent people who don’t exist. Everyone in Central Europe has a registration and it shows your ethnicity – bureaucrats will call you on it if they think you are lying. The 2-3% that I gave you are official, validated numbers, with names and residences attached. The Soros minions try to find more Gypsies by claiming that many Gypsies hide in the mainstream society and don’t disclose that they are of Gypsy origin. That is true – there are thousands who went mainstream over the years who are of partial (or even full) Gypsy origin. But they are like everyone else, why is that a problem? The numbers are relatively small and as I told you they have been stable since WWII.

    What is your obsession about? Do you like swarthy mestizo-like creatures so much you see them everywhere?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    Look, I won’t take away your sub-170 cm cholos with 89 IQ, enjoy them. They are noisy, mostly harmless, and girls have a good 5 years of decent looks mating window. Just remember they are not going to the Moon or really fix your plumbing.
     
    My friend in Texas insists they are good workers, you just have to make sure they do the right project, but they do it well.

    Cholos are cholos, if they are 1/2 “white”, it must be he scum-baggy half; the one summarized in “I am going to America so I don’t have to work and to screw Indian women“.
     
    Did a Latino hurt you?

    Conquistadors were incredible explorers and soldiers.

    That’s how you got cholos, they won’t be running the world.
     
    America is about 25% Latino, it will become 35%, maybe 40% (they're fertility rate is dropping). Not even a majority. They won't be running things, they will be working, and they are not bad workers. The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese). Though some Cubans or upper class Columbians may join in too, why not?

    Your “various estimates” are nonsense, you can’t invent people who don’t exist. Everyone in Central Europe has a registration and it shows your ethnicity
     
    Those gypsies living in camps are all registered?

    When you made the ridiculous claims of millions of uncounted illegals in the USA I assumed this was based on well-established Slovak experience of not counting marginals.

    Here is AlJazeera (are they Soros also?):

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/10/life-in-slovakias-roma-slums-poverty-and-segregation

    Born and raised in Jarovnice’s slum, where he still lives with his family, Florian estimates that the village has one of the most densely populated Roma populations per capita in Europe and suspects that at least 900 unregistered residents live in the slum uncounted

    Gypsies are an even higher percentage of Slovakia's population than they are of Hungary's population:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342929613/figure/tbl3/AS:[email protected]/Member-states-with-the-highest-estimated-number-of-Roma.png

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rene-Matlovic/publication/277890840_The_Roma_Population_in_Slovakia_Basic_Characteristics_of_the_Roma_Population_with_Emphasis_on_the_Spatial_Aspects_of_its_Differentiation/links/5575e9d808aeb6d8c01ae78a/The-Roma-Population-in-Slovakia-Basic-Characteristics-of-the-Roma-Population-with-Emphasis-on-the-Spatial-Aspects-of-its-Differentiation.pdf

    As we mentioned in the introduction above, census data does not reflect the actual total number of the Roma minority members, because the huge number of the Roma do not register for the Roma nationality in the official census; therefore, we based on the inquiry conducted in 2010, which we assume that it better reflects the real state. This information, however, can be still characterized as a qualified estimate so some distortions cannot be excluded.

    According to this survey, in 2010, 352 924 Roma with the permanent residence lived in Slovak municipalities. The share of the Roma population reached 6.5% of the total number of population.

    What is your obsession about? Do you like swarthy mestizo-like creatures so much you see them everywhere?
     
    Rather, I find it funny that a person living in a country that is being overrun by Roma gloats about the USA because of its Latinos. But go ahead, pretend it is only 2% to feel better.

    Replies: @Beckow

  246. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP

    Look, I won't take away your sub-170 cm cholos with 89 IQ, enjoy them. They are noisy, mostly harmless, and girls have a good 5 years of decent looks mating window. Just remember they are not going to the Moon or really fix your plumbing. Cholos are cholos, if they are 1/2 "white", it must be he scum-baggy half; the one summarized in "I am going to America so I don't have to work and to screw Indian women". That's how you got cholos, they won't be running the world.

    Your obsession with Gypsies is amusing. In all countries of the former Habsburg Empire the administration is superb - they miss nothing, they know everything, IDs, residences, etc... That was the quiet annoying appeal of Habsburg bureaucracy. Compared to that US administration is a random table in some warehouse with stupid ladies who don't know how to count, and do no cross-checking for accuracy. I am not advocating it - it is exhausting - but at least bark up the right tree.

    Your "various estimates" are nonsense, you can't invent people who don't exist. Everyone in Central Europe has a registration and it shows your ethnicity - bureaucrats will call you on it if they think you are lying. The 2-3% that I gave you are official, validated numbers, with names and residences attached. The Soros minions try to find more Gypsies by claiming that many Gypsies hide in the mainstream society and don't disclose that they are of Gypsy origin. That is true - there are thousands who went mainstream over the years who are of partial (or even full) Gypsy origin. But they are like everyone else, why is that a problem? The numbers are relatively small and as I told you they have been stable since WWII.

    What is your obsession about? Do you like swarthy mestizo-like creatures so much you see them everywhere?

    Replies: @AP

    Look, I won’t take away your sub-170 cm cholos with 89 IQ, enjoy them. They are noisy, mostly harmless, and girls have a good 5 years of decent looks mating window. Just remember they are not going to the Moon or really fix your plumbing.

    My friend in Texas insists they are good workers, you just have to make sure they do the right project, but they do it well.

    Cholos are cholos, if they are 1/2 “white”, it must be he scum-baggy half; the one summarized in “I am going to America so I don’t have to work and to screw Indian women“.

    Did a Latino hurt you?

    Conquistadors were incredible explorers and soldiers.

    That’s how you got cholos, they won’t be running the world.

    America is about 25% Latino, it will become 35%, maybe 40% (they’re fertility rate is dropping). Not even a majority. They won’t be running things, they will be working, and they are not bad workers. The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese). Though some Cubans or upper class Columbians may join in too, why not?

    Your “various estimates” are nonsense, you can’t invent people who don’t exist. Everyone in Central Europe has a registration and it shows your ethnicity

    Those gypsies living in camps are all registered?

    When you made the ridiculous claims of millions of uncounted illegals in the USA I assumed this was based on well-established Slovak experience of not counting marginals.

    Here is AlJazeera (are they Soros also?):

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/10/life-in-slovakias-roma-slums-poverty-and-segregation

    Born and raised in Jarovnice’s slum, where he still lives with his family, Florian estimates that the village has one of the most densely populated Roma populations per capita in Europe and suspects that at least 900 unregistered residents live in the slum uncounted

    Gypsies are an even higher percentage of Slovakia’s population than they are of Hungary’s population:

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rene-Matlovic/publication/277890840_The_Roma_Population_in_Slovakia_Basic_Characteristics_of_the_Roma_Population_with_Emphasis_on_the_Spatial_Aspects_of_its_Differentiation/links/5575e9d808aeb6d8c01ae78a/The-Roma-Population-in-Slovakia-Basic-Characteristics-of-the-Roma-Population-with-Emphasis-on-the-Spatial-Aspects-of-its-Differentiation.pdf

    As we mentioned in the introduction above, census data does not reflect the actual total number of the Roma minority members, because the huge number of the Roma do not register for the Roma nationality in the official census; therefore, we based on the inquiry conducted in 2010, which we assume that it better reflects the real state. This information, however, can be still characterized as a qualified estimate so some distortions cannot be excluded.

    According to this survey, in 2010, 352 924 Roma with the permanent residence lived in Slovak municipalities. The share of the Roma population reached 6.5% of the total number of population.

    What is your obsession about? Do you like swarthy mestizo-like creatures so much you see them everywhere?

    Rather, I find it funny that a person living in a country that is being overrun by Roma gloats about the USA because of its Latinos. But go ahead, pretend it is only 2% to feel better.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese).
     
    What happened to Ukrainians? Have you been cut out? From what I have seen the ones running things are elderly ladies, angry Blacks, and a sprinkling of post-modern no-identity dweebs who couldn't find their private part if their life depended on it. And a few sharp Jews, most white, male Democrats in power are Jewish. And Biden, you try to classify him - I would say an early-20th century leftover Irish drunk. Maybe the cholos will be an improvement.

    Regarding Brahmins that you are so fond off: the masses of Indians who have come to US - over 5 million - are no Brahmins. They are the usual run-of-the-mill Indian hustlers trying to escape India. A parasitic group if you examine how they function. Brahmins are not what you think they are: real Brahmins don't work, don't fight and don't engage in business. Come to think of it a society full of fake-Brahmins and cholas could give Hollywood something new to work on.

    Regarding Gypsies: Al Jazeera is an Arab, white-European hating propaganda outfit. I neither follow them, not would I believe anything they say about E Europe.


    at least 900 unregistered residents live in the slum uncounted
     
    So? they are registered somewhere else. Everyone has to be registered somewhere and it is in the ID. Some people live elsewhere, but that doesn't change the count. And I would take anything some Florian guy says with a grain of salt.

    The article you quote is a paid-for spiel produced by NGO's looking for funding. They lie and exaggerate. By the way, it's not a "camp", those are small settlements, there are a few dozen of them and authorities know exactly where and who lives there - they just forcefully tested them for corona. Sad places, but nothing approaching the slums of Brussels or LA. I will take my chance with Gypsies over what the West is facing, but you are free to feel differently. We don't worship them like West does with its minorities.

    Replies: @AP

  247. @Mikhail
    @AP


    Any confederation would thus inevitably end in Russian domination, which would mean suppression of local Ukrainian culture. This is exactly what happened each time a confederation was attempted before. For this reason, a better confederation partner for Ukraine would be another Slavic country with a similar population. This one exists, to the West. But it would be good for this confederation to have friendly relations, perhaps even an alliance, with Russia one day.
     
    A mix of Polish nationalist and svido BS. The Polish inspired creation of the Unia (Greek Catholic) was done in part to increase the differences between the people identifying with Rus, of which Russia became the strongest and most independent of Rus land following the Mongol subjugation.

    As has been noted before, there's good reason why modern day Russia, Ukraine and Belarus identify with Rus in a way that Poland doesn't.

    Replies: @AP

    The Polish inspired creation of the Unia (Greek Catholic) was done in part to increase the differences between the people identifying with Rus

    Or maybe the Rus adoption of Orthodoxy divided the Polyany Slavs of what is now Ukraine from their brothers in Poland?

    • Disagree: Bashibuzuk
    • LOL: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    The difference and separation are due to the Kievan Poliannye ending up under the Rus princes. The religion of the Rus although Orthodox was not anti-Catholic before the Baltic Crusades. Why the attitudes of Rus changed is easy to understand when one sees what has become of the Old Prussians and Wends. And don't forget that it was the Polish King who initiated the conquest and colonisation of Prussia by the Teutonic knights. Polish King ressented Prussian pagans raiding his lands and asked the Germanic crusaders to help him pacifying these miscreants. Little known fact: the Romanov dynasty are descended from one of these Old Prussian warriors who ran away to Rus and ended up serving under the Rurikid Great Duke of Muscovy.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Mikhail
    @AP


    Or maybe the Rus adoption of Orthodoxy divided the Polyany Slavs of what is now Ukraine from their brothers in Poland?
     
    Poland became Christian in 966. Rus existed prior to that period, with 988 being their Christian start and 1054 being the the beginning of the schism.

    So much for Polish nationalist revisionism.

    Replies: @AP

  248. AP says:
    @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    Adding Poland to the mix is not a bad idea that might indeed provide some balance.

    Replies: @AP

    So you would have about 80 million Poles + Ukrainians versus 140 million Russians. What if a large majority of Russians vote to replace the Polish and Ukrainian languages with the Russian language? Or make the Russian Orthodox Church based in Moscow the only Church, because it will be free of non-Slavic influence unlike the Catholic ones linked to the Vatican and the OCU linked to Istanbul? Or give all industries to Moscow-backed oligarchs? They will outvote the Poles and Ukrainians. Russia is simply too big and populous to be a union partner with other Slavic nations who care about their local customs and culture. Belarussians don’t seem to care, it’s okay for them. But not for the others.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AP

    Thought history, empires, unions, federations whatever have typically had one group (for similar reasons) having the upper hand.

    It's oh so PC to go against that. In more than one century, Ukrainians en masse weren't happy under Polish rule.

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    What you write about is not even twentieth century and we're in the twenty first. There are Swiss example that anyone could adapt and apply and the Canadian one (the territory is bigger).

    Anyway, Slavs being what they are, it is unlikely to happen during our lifetime. But I still hope it will one day. Otherwise Slavs as distinct ethnic group will just disappear or become largely irrelevant like other people before them.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @AP

    You could expand it to Central Asia. That way the Russians will be outnumbered, and Tajiks are hard workers.

  249. @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    So you would have about 80 million Poles + Ukrainians versus 140 million Russians. What if a large majority of Russians vote to replace the Polish and Ukrainian languages with the Russian language? Or make the Russian Orthodox Church based in Moscow the only Church, because it will be free of non-Slavic influence unlike the Catholic ones linked to the Vatican and the OCU linked to Istanbul? Or give all industries to Moscow-backed oligarchs? They will outvote the Poles and Ukrainians. Russia is simply too big and populous to be a union partner with other Slavic nations who care about their local customs and culture. Belarussians don't seem to care, it's okay for them. But not for the others.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Bashibuzuk, @Anatoly Karlin

    Thought history, empires, unions, federations whatever have typically had one group (for similar reasons) having the upper hand.

    It’s oh so PC to go against that. In more than one century, Ukrainians en masse weren’t happy under Polish rule.

  250. @AP
    @Beckow


    Look, I won’t take away your sub-170 cm cholos with 89 IQ, enjoy them. They are noisy, mostly harmless, and girls have a good 5 years of decent looks mating window. Just remember they are not going to the Moon or really fix your plumbing.
     
    My friend in Texas insists they are good workers, you just have to make sure they do the right project, but they do it well.

    Cholos are cholos, if they are 1/2 “white”, it must be he scum-baggy half; the one summarized in “I am going to America so I don’t have to work and to screw Indian women“.
     
    Did a Latino hurt you?

    Conquistadors were incredible explorers and soldiers.

    That’s how you got cholos, they won’t be running the world.
     
    America is about 25% Latino, it will become 35%, maybe 40% (they're fertility rate is dropping). Not even a majority. They won't be running things, they will be working, and they are not bad workers. The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese). Though some Cubans or upper class Columbians may join in too, why not?

    Your “various estimates” are nonsense, you can’t invent people who don’t exist. Everyone in Central Europe has a registration and it shows your ethnicity
     
    Those gypsies living in camps are all registered?

    When you made the ridiculous claims of millions of uncounted illegals in the USA I assumed this was based on well-established Slovak experience of not counting marginals.

    Here is AlJazeera (are they Soros also?):

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/10/life-in-slovakias-roma-slums-poverty-and-segregation

    Born and raised in Jarovnice’s slum, where he still lives with his family, Florian estimates that the village has one of the most densely populated Roma populations per capita in Europe and suspects that at least 900 unregistered residents live in the slum uncounted

    Gypsies are an even higher percentage of Slovakia's population than they are of Hungary's population:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342929613/figure/tbl3/AS:[email protected]/Member-states-with-the-highest-estimated-number-of-Roma.png

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rene-Matlovic/publication/277890840_The_Roma_Population_in_Slovakia_Basic_Characteristics_of_the_Roma_Population_with_Emphasis_on_the_Spatial_Aspects_of_its_Differentiation/links/5575e9d808aeb6d8c01ae78a/The-Roma-Population-in-Slovakia-Basic-Characteristics-of-the-Roma-Population-with-Emphasis-on-the-Spatial-Aspects-of-its-Differentiation.pdf

    As we mentioned in the introduction above, census data does not reflect the actual total number of the Roma minority members, because the huge number of the Roma do not register for the Roma nationality in the official census; therefore, we based on the inquiry conducted in 2010, which we assume that it better reflects the real state. This information, however, can be still characterized as a qualified estimate so some distortions cannot be excluded.

    According to this survey, in 2010, 352 924 Roma with the permanent residence lived in Slovak municipalities. The share of the Roma population reached 6.5% of the total number of population.

    What is your obsession about? Do you like swarthy mestizo-like creatures so much you see them everywhere?
     
    Rather, I find it funny that a person living in a country that is being overrun by Roma gloats about the USA because of its Latinos. But go ahead, pretend it is only 2% to feel better.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese).

    What happened to Ukrainians? Have you been cut out? From what I have seen the ones running things are elderly ladies, angry Blacks, and a sprinkling of post-modern no-identity dweebs who couldn’t find their private part if their life depended on it. And a few sharp Jews, most white, male Democrats in power are Jewish. And Biden, you try to classify him – I would say an early-20th century leftover Irish drunk. Maybe the cholos will be an improvement.

    Regarding Brahmins that you are so fond off: the masses of Indians who have come to US – over 5 million – are no Brahmins. They are the usual run-of-the-mill Indian hustlers trying to escape India. A parasitic group if you examine how they function. Brahmins are not what you think they are: real Brahmins don’t work, don’t fight and don’t engage in business. Come to think of it a society full of fake-Brahmins and cholas could give Hollywood something new to work on.

    Regarding Gypsies: Al Jazeera is an Arab, white-European hating propaganda outfit. I neither follow them, not would I believe anything they say about E Europe.

    at least 900 unregistered residents live in the slum uncounted

    So? they are registered somewhere else. Everyone has to be registered somewhere and it is in the ID. Some people live elsewhere, but that doesn’t change the count. And I would take anything some Florian guy says with a grain of salt.

    The article you quote is a paid-for spiel produced by NGO’s looking for funding. They lie and exaggerate. By the way, it’s not a “camp”, those are small settlements, there are a few dozen of them and authorities know exactly where and who lives there – they just forcefully tested them for corona. Sad places, but nothing approaching the slums of Brussels or LA. I will take my chance with Gypsies over what the West is facing, but you are free to feel differently. We don’t worship them like West does with its minorities.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    …The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese).

    What happened to Ukrainians? Have you been cut out?
     
    Not enough of us. But Canada is a different story, their foreign minister is a Ukrainian lady.

    Regarding Brahmins that you are so fond off: the masses of Indians who have come to US – over 5 million – are no Brahmins. They are the usual run-of-the-mill Indian hustlers trying to escape India. A parasitic group if you examine how they function.
     
    More like 4 million, not 5 million.

    Further evidence that your country is loaded with gypsies (contrary to your claims) is that, as we see above, you can't help but think of everyone as a type of gypsy. Reality is that Indians have the highest income of any ethnic group in the USA (higher than Jews) and work as physicians, scientists, higher level engineers, etc. America has gotten their elites.

    A few Untouchables get into the USA. They are ruthlessly discriminated against by the Brahmins:

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/3azjp5/silicon-valley-has-a-caste-discrimination-problem

    Meanwhile your country has the second highest percentage of gypsies in Europe, higher than in Romania and Hungary. Only Bulgaria has more than Slovakia:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342929613/figure/tbl3/AS:[email protected]/Member-states-with-the-highest-estimated-number-of-Roma.png

    So your complaints about Indians, "cholos", etc. are a sort of desperate cope.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard-Mandela

  251. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...most will not be like Slovaks and Czechs. They would fight hard until they lose, and those that survive will enjoy a comfortable exile in the West.
     
    I always laugh when I see this empty posturing. Yes, we don't fight losing battles - no rational human should. And from my friends among people from Ukraine, most are just like that and have no desire to bleed for Ze, Porky or Kolomoisky. You might be surprised how few would actually fight if the battle would be apriori lost.

    That comfortable exile in the West is problematic. But I leave that to the future, some will make it, others won't. The point is that if you are in a bloody fight with one eye on the coming comfort you might just choose to take a shortcut. That's human nature. Ukrainians are still human, aren't they?

    Replies: @AP, @reiner Tor

    we don’t fight losing battles – no rational human should

    It’s not a one round game, so it’s unclear what’s best.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @reiner Tor


    It’s not a one round game, so it’s unclear what’s best.
     
    It is if you are dead after the first round.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  252. @AP
    @Beckow


    Given the utter dysfunction of the American administration on all levels it is very improbable that the official figures include the categories I listed.
     
    America is not Slovakia, which undercounts its gypsy population. There was a fight in the USA because Trump did not want illegals, who are very much counted, to be used for purposes of political redistricting. So yes, they are counted. It is actually very valuable to count them, their presence adds to a place's political power and to the amount of money a city receives in aid. So during the census each city tries to count as many illegals (or anybody) as possible. The more it finds, the more money it gets for schools and other things. If corruption plays a role, illegals will if anything be overcounted.

    You say it’s going to 400 million, I will raise you to 500 million
     
    And "mal" says it won't even be 320 million. But we know how you invent numbers.

    They will come and there will be 500 million people.
     
    Not according to any estimates, only according to your dreams. Actual estimates:

    https://i.imgur.com/SJIw9QO.png


    There are about 4-5 billion people in Africa
     
    And less than 3 million in the USA. Immigrants from Africa are not even 1% of the population. Moreover, the ones here are mostly their educated ones, they work as chemists, or physicians or whatever. Some of them are white South Africans.

    Mass immigration from Africa is a European, not American issue. We mostly get the noisy, but friendly, half-European Latinos.


    Then the living standards will be what exactly?
     
    About the same, for the hundreds of million of middle to upper middle class people who would be segregated from the newcomers. There are enough prosperous people in America that when they self-segregate they are not living in fortified enclaves as in South Africa or Latin America, but in large areas the sizes of European countries. But you are a dreamer, with your own fantasies of 500 million, squalor, etc. Remind me again what is the projected gypsy population in your country for 2050? They are unofficially about 10% now, and growing.

    Replies: @Beckow, @reiner Tor

    America is not Slovakia, which undercounts its gypsy population.

    Gypsies are very difficult to count due to political correctness and for historical reasons.

    In Hungary in 1945 census data were used to deport Germans. This example is used whenever someone tries to count Gypsies. Basically, the guidelines say that anyone should be counted as a Gypsy only if he says it himself. There are a few unofficial counts (even by Gypsy organizations), but the official census is pretty useless and can only be used as a floor for the estimates.

    • Replies: @utu
    @reiner Tor


    Real and imagined problems of the Roma community in Slovakia
    https://neweasterneurope.eu/2016/07/12/real-and-imagined-problems-of-the-roma-community-in-slovakia/

    PROF. ALEXANDER MUŠINKA: As you can see, all too often words such as “unofficially”, “probably”, or “possibly” accompany such reports. A serious discussion will not begin if one cannot grasp the essence of the issue. What we call “official data” is the data issued by the Statistical Department on the basis of a census which clearly showed that there are 100,000 inhabitants in Slovakia who define their national identity as Romani. At the same time the “unofficial” data is based on different sources of information, other research, other methodology and to be specific, they tell us how many people the Slovak majority sees as belonging to the Romani minority. And here indeed the data differs fundamentally, as around 400,000 people, which is around seven and a half per cent of the population, is seen as belonging to the Romani population, even though those people identify themselves as Slovaks. Therefore, calling one set of data “official” and the other “unofficial” is unfortunate, as they both have empirical character, but they are based on different methodologies.
     

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/combatting-discrimination/roma-eu/roma-inclusion-eu-country/roma-inclusion-slovakia_en

    Slovakia is using EU funding to help its Roma community of around 500,000 (9% of the population).

     

  253. @reiner Tor
    @AP


    America is not Slovakia, which undercounts its gypsy population.
     
    Gypsies are very difficult to count due to political correctness and for historical reasons.

    In Hungary in 1945 census data were used to deport Germans. This example is used whenever someone tries to count Gypsies. Basically, the guidelines say that anyone should be counted as a Gypsy only if he says it himself. There are a few unofficial counts (even by Gypsy organizations), but the official census is pretty useless and can only be used as a floor for the estimates.

    Replies: @utu

    Real and imagined problems of the Roma community in Slovakia
    https://neweasterneurope.eu/2016/07/12/real-and-imagined-problems-of-the-roma-community-in-slovakia/

    PROF. ALEXANDER MUŠINKA: As you can see, all too often words such as “unofficially”, “probably”, or “possibly” accompany such reports. A serious discussion will not begin if one cannot grasp the essence of the issue. What we call “official data” is the data issued by the Statistical Department on the basis of a census which clearly showed that there are 100,000 inhabitants in Slovakia who define their national identity as Romani. At the same time the “unofficial” data is based on different sources of information, other research, other methodology and to be specific, they tell us how many people the Slovak majority sees as belonging to the Romani minority. And here indeed the data differs fundamentally, as around 400,000 people, which is around seven and a half per cent of the population, is seen as belonging to the Romani population, even though those people identify themselves as Slovaks. Therefore, calling one set of data “official” and the other “unofficial” is unfortunate, as they both have empirical character, but they are based on different methodologies.

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/combatting-discrimination/roma-eu/roma-inclusion-eu-country/roma-inclusion-slovakia_en

    Slovakia is using EU funding to help its Roma community of around 500,000 (9% of the population).

    • Thanks: reiner Tor
  254. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    So you would have about 80 million Poles + Ukrainians versus 140 million Russians. What if a large majority of Russians vote to replace the Polish and Ukrainian languages with the Russian language? Or make the Russian Orthodox Church based in Moscow the only Church, because it will be free of non-Slavic influence unlike the Catholic ones linked to the Vatican and the OCU linked to Istanbul? Or give all industries to Moscow-backed oligarchs? They will outvote the Poles and Ukrainians. Russia is simply too big and populous to be a union partner with other Slavic nations who care about their local customs and culture. Belarussians don't seem to care, it's okay for them. But not for the others.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Bashibuzuk, @Anatoly Karlin

    What you write about is not even twentieth century and we’re in the twenty first. There are Swiss example that anyone could adapt and apply and the Canadian one (the territory is bigger).

    Anyway, Slavs being what they are, it is unlikely to happen during our lifetime. But I still hope it will one day. Otherwise Slavs as distinct ethnic group will just disappear or become largely irrelevant like other people before them.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Bashibuzuk


    What you write about is not even twentieth century and we’re in the twenty first. There are Swiss example that anyone could adapt and apply and the Canadian one (the territory is bigger).
     
    Germans and French are evenly populated in Switzerland. Canada is perpetually unstable, French are mollified by the fact that almost every Canadian PM has been French and the entire country has been made officially bilingual, while Quebec itself is basically French-only.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  255. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AP
    @Mikhail


    The Polish inspired creation of the Unia (Greek Catholic) was done in part to increase the differences between the people identifying with Rus
     
    Or maybe the Rus adoption of Orthodoxy divided the Polyany Slavs of what is now Ukraine from their brothers in Poland?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Mikhail

    The difference and separation are due to the Kievan Poliannye ending up under the Rus princes. The religion of the Rus although Orthodox was not anti-Catholic before the Baltic Crusades. Why the attitudes of Rus changed is easy to understand when one sees what has become of the Old Prussians and Wends. And don’t forget that it was the Polish King who initiated the conquest and colonisation of Prussia by the Teutonic knights. Polish King ressented Prussian pagans raiding his lands and asked the Germanic crusaders to help him pacifying these miscreants. Little known fact: the Romanov dynasty are descended from one of these Old Prussian warriors who ran away to Rus and ended up serving under the Rurikid Great Duke of Muscovy.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Bashibuzuk


    The difference and separation are due to the Kievan Poliannye ending up under the Rus princes
     
    Correct. The Rus divided the Slavs of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia from their brothers in Poland. The opportunity for reunion was quashed in the 17th century, in part due to efforts by the meddlesome English.

    And don’t forget that it was the Polish King who initiated the conquest and colonisation of Prussia by the Teutonic knights. Polish King ressented Prussian pagans raiding his lands and asked the Germanic crusaders to help him pacifying these miscreants
     
    Sort of understandable. Poles and western Rus would together defeat the Prussians at Grunwald. There is a nice, huge mural depicting this battle in the military museum in Lviv
  256. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese).
     
    What happened to Ukrainians? Have you been cut out? From what I have seen the ones running things are elderly ladies, angry Blacks, and a sprinkling of post-modern no-identity dweebs who couldn't find their private part if their life depended on it. And a few sharp Jews, most white, male Democrats in power are Jewish. And Biden, you try to classify him - I would say an early-20th century leftover Irish drunk. Maybe the cholos will be an improvement.

    Regarding Brahmins that you are so fond off: the masses of Indians who have come to US - over 5 million - are no Brahmins. They are the usual run-of-the-mill Indian hustlers trying to escape India. A parasitic group if you examine how they function. Brahmins are not what you think they are: real Brahmins don't work, don't fight and don't engage in business. Come to think of it a society full of fake-Brahmins and cholas could give Hollywood something new to work on.

    Regarding Gypsies: Al Jazeera is an Arab, white-European hating propaganda outfit. I neither follow them, not would I believe anything they say about E Europe.


    at least 900 unregistered residents live in the slum uncounted
     
    So? they are registered somewhere else. Everyone has to be registered somewhere and it is in the ID. Some people live elsewhere, but that doesn't change the count. And I would take anything some Florian guy says with a grain of salt.

    The article you quote is a paid-for spiel produced by NGO's looking for funding. They lie and exaggerate. By the way, it's not a "camp", those are small settlements, there are a few dozen of them and authorities know exactly where and who lives there - they just forcefully tested them for corona. Sad places, but nothing approaching the slums of Brussels or LA. I will take my chance with Gypsies over what the West is facing, but you are free to feel differently. We don't worship them like West does with its minorities.

    Replies: @AP

    …The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese).

    What happened to Ukrainians? Have you been cut out?

    Not enough of us. But Canada is a different story, their foreign minister is a Ukrainian lady.

    Regarding Brahmins that you are so fond off: the masses of Indians who have come to US – over 5 million – are no Brahmins. They are the usual run-of-the-mill Indian hustlers trying to escape India. A parasitic group if you examine how they function.

    More like 4 million, not 5 million.

    Further evidence that your country is loaded with gypsies (contrary to your claims) is that, as we see above, you can’t help but think of everyone as a type of gypsy. Reality is that Indians have the highest income of any ethnic group in the USA (higher than Jews) and work as physicians, scientists, higher level engineers, etc. America has gotten their elites.

    A few Untouchables get into the USA. They are ruthlessly discriminated against by the Brahmins:

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/3azjp5/silicon-valley-has-a-caste-discrimination-problem

    Meanwhile your country has the second highest percentage of gypsies in Europe, higher than in Romania and Hungary. Only Bulgaria has more than Slovakia:

    So your complaints about Indians, “cholos”, etc. are a sort of desperate cope.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    Not enough of us.
     
    If you manage to empty Ukraine and move them all out of West, there will be enough. Then they will disappear via mating with the Third World masses...maybe it's better that way.

    Your table as a retarded NGO propaganda. But it's pointless to tell you again.

    I will take my chances with a few thousand asocial Gypsies in some remote settlements that I will never see, as opposed to what one sees in London, Brussels, Paris, etc... You should visit the big Central European cities and see for yourself. You will see a lot more Ukrainian service workers and almost no Gypsies.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    Not enough of us
     
    LOL , so the decrepit POS who calls himself Polish on other forums (WTF?), alternates being Chechen, Polish, East Ukrainian, Ukrainian, Galician, Austrian, German and whatever to do whatever idiot argument you are trying to waste time on, has never been to the country, doesn't even know the most basic thing about Ukraine when put under scrutiny and unmistakably proved this all many times and recently with the disturbing and hilarious "typical west Ukrainian culture video".......now refers to "us" when talking about Ukrainians!

    But Canada is a different story, their foreign minister is a Ukrainian lady.
     
    Let's see now. Canada,a country which doesn't even has it's own international phone code, has absolutely no foreign policy of it's own as its done entirely in line with US, has probably Fidel Castro's lovechild as PM, has zero chance of being invaded........

    picks a journalist to be it's foreign Minister. LOL you retard. That's like picking a chimpanzee to be governor of their Central Bank. That's not a sign of importance or prestige you moron. She also isn't "Ukrainian" but a permanantly cursed-in-hell ( like you) evil Banderite . That's the best you can do when talking your fantasist BS?

    What is amusing is that although there is no such thing as a "Ukrainian", there was news sent to me by an anglo friend that a Police officer in UK has been arrested for kidnapping and murdering a young woman. The police officer is married to a ........."Ukrainian", and there is a real possibility he could be a serial killer ( another euphemism of serial killer is Ukrainian "nationalist" hero)

    Why do I mention this? The wife of the UK's worst ever serial killer I found out recently is also.....a Banderetard , probably smuggled out of mainland Europe by British intelligence. It's good news for "Ukraine", although it doesn't prove the ethnicity of "Ukrainian", it definitely shows the culture these woman have passed onto their husbands - the psychiatric disorder called "Ukrainianism".

    So it's embarassing for me, because it proves that Ukrainianism does exist.....but just not as any tangible culture......but as a psychiatric disease!! That obviously accounts for a freak like you also.

    So Britain gets Yelena Mirinova (Helen Mirren) as great Russian world, from non-Russia Banderastan it gets Oksana/Sonya - wife ( and probably instigator) of biggest UK serial killer

    Replies: @AP

  257. @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    What you write about is not even twentieth century and we're in the twenty first. There are Swiss example that anyone could adapt and apply and the Canadian one (the territory is bigger).

    Anyway, Slavs being what they are, it is unlikely to happen during our lifetime. But I still hope it will one day. Otherwise Slavs as distinct ethnic group will just disappear or become largely irrelevant like other people before them.

    Replies: @AP

    What you write about is not even twentieth century and we’re in the twenty first. There are Swiss example that anyone could adapt and apply and the Canadian one (the territory is bigger).

    Germans and French are evenly populated in Switzerland. Canada is perpetually unstable, French are mollified by the fact that almost every Canadian PM has been French and the entire country has been made officially bilingual, while Quebec itself is basically French-only.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    Why wouldn't Slavs be able to do today what Swiss and Canadians have done centuries ago ?

    Are we that retarded ?

    Replies: @AP

  258. @AP
    @Bashibuzuk


    What you write about is not even twentieth century and we’re in the twenty first. There are Swiss example that anyone could adapt and apply and the Canadian one (the territory is bigger).
     
    Germans and French are evenly populated in Switzerland. Canada is perpetually unstable, French are mollified by the fact that almost every Canadian PM has been French and the entire country has been made officially bilingual, while Quebec itself is basically French-only.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Why wouldn’t Slavs be able to do today what Swiss and Canadians have done centuries ago ?

    Are we that retarded ?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    Would Russians acquiesce to having a Ukrainian president almost all the time, for Ukrainian to be the second language throughout Russia, while Ukraine itself maintains anti-Russian Ukrainian language policies? This is the deal Canada’s Anglos have adopted to keep Quebec within their country.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  259. @AP
    @Mikhail


    The Polish inspired creation of the Unia (Greek Catholic) was done in part to increase the differences between the people identifying with Rus
     
    Or maybe the Rus adoption of Orthodoxy divided the Polyany Slavs of what is now Ukraine from their brothers in Poland?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Mikhail

    Or maybe the Rus adoption of Orthodoxy divided the Polyany Slavs of what is now Ukraine from their brothers in Poland?

    Poland became Christian in 966. Rus existed prior to that period, with 988 being their Christian start and 1054 being the the beginning of the schism.

    So much for Polish nationalist revisionism.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mikhail

    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.

    I’m glad you may be starting to slowly understand.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

  260. AP says:
    @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    The difference and separation are due to the Kievan Poliannye ending up under the Rus princes. The religion of the Rus although Orthodox was not anti-Catholic before the Baltic Crusades. Why the attitudes of Rus changed is easy to understand when one sees what has become of the Old Prussians and Wends. And don't forget that it was the Polish King who initiated the conquest and colonisation of Prussia by the Teutonic knights. Polish King ressented Prussian pagans raiding his lands and asked the Germanic crusaders to help him pacifying these miscreants. Little known fact: the Romanov dynasty are descended from one of these Old Prussian warriors who ran away to Rus and ended up serving under the Rurikid Great Duke of Muscovy.

    Replies: @AP

    The difference and separation are due to the Kievan Poliannye ending up under the Rus princes

    Correct. The Rus divided the Slavs of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia from their brothers in Poland. The opportunity for reunion was quashed in the 17th century, in part due to efforts by the meddlesome English.

    And don’t forget that it was the Polish King who initiated the conquest and colonisation of Prussia by the Teutonic knights. Polish King ressented Prussian pagans raiding his lands and asked the Germanic crusaders to help him pacifying these miscreants

    Sort of understandable. Poles and western Rus would together defeat the Prussians at Grunwald. There is a nice, huge mural depicting this battle in the military museum in Lviv

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
  261. AP says:
    @Mikhail
    @AP


    Or maybe the Rus adoption of Orthodoxy divided the Polyany Slavs of what is now Ukraine from their brothers in Poland?
     
    Poland became Christian in 966. Rus existed prior to that period, with 988 being their Christian start and 1054 being the the beginning of the schism.

    So much for Polish nationalist revisionism.

    Replies: @AP

    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.

    I’m glad you may be starting to slowly understand.

    • LOL: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP


    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.
     
    I'm not so sure that there was really very much unity between these Slavic tribes to begin with during the second half of the 10th century? Although you and I have touched on the unproven topic of the possibility of the 'Polianye" tribe being the same in both Poland and in Ukraine in the past. In both countries' development, Slavic tribes known as Polianye were prevalent in the formation of both ethnicities. It would be interesting to know if there was actually any real contacts between these tribes? We certainly know that there were live contacts between various Croat tribes in Western Ukraine, Poland, Bohemia and finally Croatia too.

    What "meddlesome English" of the 17th century do you have in mind?

    Replies: @AP

    , @Mikhail
    @AP


    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.

    I’m glad you may be starting to slowly understand.
     
    You're revealing a lack of basic comprehension again. As was noted at this thread, Poland became Christian in 966. Rus in 988. A whopping 22 year old difference. The East-West church schism happened in 1054.

    Replies: @AP

  262. @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    Why wouldn't Slavs be able to do today what Swiss and Canadians have done centuries ago ?

    Are we that retarded ?

    Replies: @AP

    Would Russians acquiesce to having a Ukrainian president almost all the time, for Ukrainian to be the second language throughout Russia, while Ukraine itself maintains anti-Russian Ukrainian language policies? This is the deal Canada’s Anglos have adopted to keep Quebec within their country.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AP


    Would Russians acquiesce to having a Ukrainian president almost all the time
     
    Well, when we look at who ruled USSR after Stalin and the prevalence of people with family names ending in "ko" in today's Russian politics, I think we might say that in the last 100 years Russian politics have been possibly more influenced by the ethnic Ukrainians than Ukrainian politics were by ethnic Russians. Also, why should this confederation have a President?; Вся власть советам! Just call the highest level of parliamentary organization "Veche" to accentuate the Slavic identity et voilà!

    Ukrainian to be the second language throughout Russia, while Ukraine itself maintains anti-Russian Ukrainian language policies
     
    There is a way around this linguistic conundrum: revive and modernize Church Slavonic or recreate the ancestral Slav language prior to its separation into dialects that later became languages. It has worked fine in Israel, where the immense majority of the population did not speak Hebrew after their immigration. Hebrew was revived and modernized and now it is a fully functional and thriving language. Arabs use Qur'anic classical Arabic as a communication language because their dialects have diverged. Turks have mostly purged their language from Arabic and Persian loanwords and reconstructed a purer Turkic using Gagauz language among other Turkic languages. It is doable.

    This Uni-Slavic (for a lack of a better word) might be taught to all children starting from the primary school and be used as the 2nd official language throughout the confederation. It would be the language of compromise for everyone, but on the national, regional and local level everyone would speak the language of the majority population in that precise geographic area.

    BTW linguists work on a reconstruction of the common proto-Slav language:

    https://youtu.be/ps1WkmtvnFo

    Just add the technical and scientific vocabulary and all the Slav will have no problem understanding each other forever.

    Where there is will, there's way.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  263. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    Would Russians acquiesce to having a Ukrainian president almost all the time, for Ukrainian to be the second language throughout Russia, while Ukraine itself maintains anti-Russian Ukrainian language policies? This is the deal Canada’s Anglos have adopted to keep Quebec within their country.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Would Russians acquiesce to having a Ukrainian president almost all the time

    Well, when we look at who ruled USSR after Stalin and the prevalence of people with family names ending in “ko” in today’s Russian politics, I think we might say that in the last 100 years Russian politics have been possibly more influenced by the ethnic Ukrainians than Ukrainian politics were by ethnic Russians. Also, why should this confederation have a President?; Вся власть советам! Just call the highest level of parliamentary organization “Veche” to accentuate the Slavic identity et voilà!

    Ukrainian to be the second language throughout Russia, while Ukraine itself maintains anti-Russian Ukrainian language policies

    There is a way around this linguistic conundrum: revive and modernize Church Slavonic or recreate the ancestral Slav language prior to its separation into dialects that later became languages. It has worked fine in Israel, where the immense majority of the population did not speak Hebrew after their immigration. Hebrew was revived and modernized and now it is a fully functional and thriving language. Arabs use Qur’anic classical Arabic as a communication language because their dialects have diverged. Turks have mostly purged their language from Arabic and Persian loanwords and reconstructed a purer Turkic using Gagauz language among other Turkic languages. It is doable.

    This Uni-Slavic (for a lack of a better word) might be taught to all children starting from the primary school and be used as the 2nd official language throughout the confederation. It would be the language of compromise for everyone, but on the national, regional and local level everyone would speak the language of the majority population in that precise geographic area.

    BTW linguists work on a reconstruction of the common proto-Slav language:

    Just add the technical and scientific vocabulary and all the Slav will have no problem understanding each other forever.

    Where there is will, there’s way.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Bashibuzuk


    Well, when we look at who ruled USSR after Stalin and the prevalence of people with family names ending in “ko” in today’s Russian politics, I think we might say that in the last 100 years Russian politics have been possibly more influenced by the ethnic Ukrainians than Ukrainian politics were by ethnic Russians
     
    The enko ending specifically. But even then, I'm sure numerous DNA studies would confirm that a good number with a enko ending name in Russia have a DNA more commonly associated with northeastern Russia than the most Ukrainian parts of the present Kiev regime controlled Ukraine.

    Tarasenko (Taras and the enko ending) is a very Ukrainian surname.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Tarasenko

    Don't forget uk, ich and sky ending names (especially uk).
  264. @AP
    @Mikhail

    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.

    I’m glad you may be starting to slowly understand.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.

    I’m not so sure that there was really very much unity between these Slavic tribes to begin with during the second half of the 10th century? Although you and I have touched on the unproven topic of the possibility of the ‘Polianye” tribe being the same in both Poland and in Ukraine in the past. In both countries’ development, Slavic tribes known as Polianye were prevalent in the formation of both ethnicities. It would be interesting to know if there was actually any real contacts between these tribes? We certainly know that there were live contacts between various Croat tribes in Western Ukraine, Poland, Bohemia and finally Croatia too.

    What “meddlesome English” of the 17th century do you have in mind?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. Hack


    I’m not so sure that there was really very much unity between these Slavic tribes to begin with during the second half of the 10th century?
     
    Politically, no. They were divided tribes, who probably killed one another at a high rate as tribes do. No writing survives to tell us of their adventures. Graves from Ukraine from a few thousand years ago indicate about 20% of people died through violence. But they were probably very similar culturally, they could probably be considered the same people at that time.

    What “meddlesome English” of the 17th century do you have in mind?
     
    In the early 17th century the Rus lords of the PLC and some of those in Muscovy attempted to unite the two countries but ultimately the Muscovites repelled the "invaders."

    The English trade mission in Muscovy encouraged anti-Polish stance and British mercenaries fought on the side of the Muscovites against the PLC forces:

    https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2018/06/10/battle-of-klushino/

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  265. @Demografie
    There will not be outright invasion. Piece by piece will Ukraine military creep in. Terrorizing local population by shelling. Enough to have Western backing and not enough to Russia respond directly. Biden administration hate Russia emotionally. The understand that China is geopolitical problem for Empire. But they passionately hate Russia and Russian. Not my words. Theirs.

    Replies: @joniel, @El Dato

    Ah, the “hoodied hologram” strategy.

    Enough to have Western backing and not enough to Russia respond directly.

    Just take out the artillery and then no comment.

    Who’s gonna care? So what if Bellingcat eats his underpants in anger?

  266. @AP
    @blatnoi


    I wouldn’t trust survey results if it’s new.
     
    Look to the 2012 elections, under Yanukovich. Pro-Western parties there won 30%of the vote, compared to only 10% in Donbas. Since pro-Western skews young this means about 50% of young Kharkivites were pro-Western (and 90% older people pro-Russian). Many of the pro-Russians from Kharkiv have fled to Donbas.

    This probably has to do something with what you say about the ‘Azov ultranationalists being based there’, and might be a reason for them ‘being based there’.
     
    They are not only based there, but from there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

    The Azov Battalion has its roots in a group of Ultras of FC Metalist Kharkiv named "Sect 82" (1982 is the year of the founding of the group).[21] "Sect 82" was (at least until September 2013) allied with FC Spartak Moscow Ultras.[21] Late February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian crisis when a separatist movement was active in Kharkiv, "Sect 82" occupied the Kharkiv Oblast regional administration building in Kharkiv and served as a local "self-defense"-force.[21] Soon, on the basis of "Sect 82" there was formed a volunteer militia called "Eastern Corps".[21]

    Their leader is a native of Kharkiv:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Biletsky_(politician)

    His maternal background is interesting:

    Born in 1979 in Kharkiv, Soviet Union, Biletsky's father Yevhen Mykhailovych Biletsky hailed from an old Cossack family that founded the village of Krasnopavlivka (Lozova Raion), while Biletsky's mother Olena Anatolivna Biletsky (née Lukashevych) descended from a noble family from Zhytomyr region, to which belong the Decembrist Vasiliy Lukashevich (Vasyl Lukashevych) who founded the "Little-Russian Secret Society".

    In his youth, Biletsky practiced several types of martial arts and boxing. In 1990 he refused to be accepted into the Vladimir Lenin All-Union Pioneer Organization. Biletsky, along with senior schoolmates, raised the Ukrainian flag over his school.[17] His major patriotic influence in his youth was his father's gift of a book prohibited in the Soviet Union, History of Ukraine for children by Anton Lototsky.[17] In 2001, Biletsky graduated with honors from the History faculty of the University of Kharkiv. His thesis was about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.[5] The same year Biletsky participated in the Ukraine without Kuchma (UBK) protests, for which he was placed under administrative arrest. The Security Service of Ukraine pressured university administration to expel Biletsky from the institution.

    In 2002 Biletsky became a leader of the Kharkiv branch of the political organization Tryzub, and in 2003 cooperated with the Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU) opposing the idea of its transformation into Svoboda.[5

    Replies: @blatnoi, @Insomniac Resurrected, @The Big Red Scary

    Are there memoirs of Ukrainian nationalist militia men fighting in Donbass? Preferably in Russian, or translated into English. I’m reading 85 дней Слвянска, and I’d be interested in reading first hand about the other side.

    • Replies: @AP
    @The Big Red Scary

    There's some stuff like this about Ilovaisk:

    https://vchasnoua.com/donbass/66745-otrymaly-komandu-ity-na-proryv-i-my-pishly-diishly-ne-vsi-spohady-pro-ilovaisku-trahediiu

    (you can use googletranslate into Russian or English)

    Here is a documentary from 2015, much of it in Russian (the Ukrainian volunteers are Russian-speaking) (Disclosure, I've only skimmed it):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB_-xU8IJnU

    A list of stuff here:

    https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%96%D0%B9%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B2%D1%96%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%B2_%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D1%96

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

  267. Then, in December 2019, Stanislav Aseyev was among the prisoners who were returned to Ukraine by the DPR. It was because he was a former prisoner of the Republic, that he was interviewed by Channel 5.

    Ukraine won’t get the Donbass back and the war is lost
    It was during this interview that the former Ukrainian spy said that in his opinion Ukraine will not be able to recover the Donbass and that the war in the region is lost.

    “The question has to be asked differently: are we ready to get this Donbass back? A whole generation of children grew up there, who were brought up with very different values,” said Stanislav Aseyev.

    According to him, in schools and universities in the DPR and the LPR (Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republic), children study the exploits of People’s Militia soldiers.

    The former spy stressed that Ukraine does not need the people who took part in the conflict (in one way or another) on the side of the DPR and the LPR. According to Aseyev, they should be sent to Russia, after which Kiev should take control of the border (which would allow Ukraine to proceed with an ethnic cleansing of the Donbass, once the defenders who protect civilians have been removed – author’s note).

    “Those linked to the corpus [the People’s Militia] are not only military: it is also the supply and accounting, in general, all those who were part of the Second and First Corps [i.e., in fact, the people’s militias of the DPR and the LPR],” Aseyev explained.

    But the former Ukrainian spy immediately dashed the hopes of some of his compatriots who dream of carrying out ethnic cleansing in the Donbass, explaining that this scenario is just a fantasy, and that Ukraine has actually lost the war and lost the region.

    “I believe we have lost this war. We have lost these territories, we cannot get them back – in that sense, we have lost them,” he said.

    Aseyev went on to say that Ukraine would not be able to recover the Donbass and that the loss of territory must be prevented from spreading.

    “We can’t get it back [the Donbass region], and the whole issue is to prevent it from spreading further,” the former spy concluded.

    In an interview I gave to News Front, I said that Ukraine does not want to implement the Minsk Agreements because they are a symbol of the Ukrainian army’s crushing defeat in the Donbass region. And this is exactly what this former Ukrainian spy has just publicly admitted: Ukraine has lost the war in the Donbass and will not be able to recover the lost territories. May it be heard by the Ukrainian war-mongers who still dream of avenging the defeats of the Ukrainian army in the blood of the Donbass inhabitants.

    Christelle Néant

    Even hardcore Ukrobanderas acknowledge that the ethnical cleansing of Donbass they wish is highly unlikely.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Aedib


    I said that Ukraine does not want to implement the Minsk Agreements because they are a symbol of the Ukrainian army’s crushing defeat in the Donbass region.
     
    What "crushing defeat"? The rebels have managed to take the Russified cities and the homeboys have managed to control the Ukrainian countryside. Both sides control about 50% of the whole territory, in what should properly be understood as a stalemate. Perhaps dividing up the territory along the lines that are already de-facto established would be a good starting point to move forward?
  268. @joniel
    @Demografie

    Is it the Catholic in Biden? I remember his racist tirades against Serbs in the 90s. Biden is a bad Catholic since he supports abortion.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Biden is about as Catholic as the Anti-Christ.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk, AP
    • Replies: @A123
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan


    Biden is about as Catholic as the Anti-Christ.
     
    (sarc) Stop being unfair to the Anti-Christ. Comparisons to Biden are uncalled for slurs. (/sarc)

    More seriously -- At this point Biden is little more than a vegetable. Vice Führer Harris is acting in Joe's name. I am having trouble blaming recent anti-Catholic regime policy on the rutabaga theoretically in charge.

    The only upside to the situation... A sentient Quid Pro Joe would start a war in Ukraine in return for Burisma bribes. Vice Führer Harris did not get that money, and Veggie Joe is not available to return favours.

    PEACE 😇
  269. @Aedib

    Then, in December 2019, Stanislav Aseyev was among the prisoners who were returned to Ukraine by the DPR. It was because he was a former prisoner of the Republic, that he was interviewed by Channel 5.

    Ukraine won’t get the Donbass back and the war is lost
    It was during this interview that the former Ukrainian spy said that in his opinion Ukraine will not be able to recover the Donbass and that the war in the region is lost.

    “The question has to be asked differently: are we ready to get this Donbass back? A whole generation of children grew up there, who were brought up with very different values,” said Stanislav Aseyev.

    According to him, in schools and universities in the DPR and the LPR (Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republic), children study the exploits of People’s Militia soldiers.

    The former spy stressed that Ukraine does not need the people who took part in the conflict (in one way or another) on the side of the DPR and the LPR. According to Aseyev, they should be sent to Russia, after which Kiev should take control of the border (which would allow Ukraine to proceed with an ethnic cleansing of the Donbass, once the defenders who protect civilians have been removed – author’s note).

    “Those linked to the corpus [the People’s Militia] are not only military: it is also the supply and accounting, in general, all those who were part of the Second and First Corps [i.e., in fact, the people’s militias of the DPR and the LPR],” Aseyev explained.

    But the former Ukrainian spy immediately dashed the hopes of some of his compatriots who dream of carrying out ethnic cleansing in the Donbass, explaining that this scenario is just a fantasy, and that Ukraine has actually lost the war and lost the region.

    “I believe we have lost this war. We have lost these territories, we cannot get them back – in that sense, we have lost them,” he said.

    Aseyev went on to say that Ukraine would not be able to recover the Donbass and that the loss of territory must be prevented from spreading.

    “We can’t get it back [the Donbass region], and the whole issue is to prevent it from spreading further,” the former spy concluded.

    In an interview I gave to News Front, I said that Ukraine does not want to implement the Minsk Agreements because they are a symbol of the Ukrainian army’s crushing defeat in the Donbass region. And this is exactly what this former Ukrainian spy has just publicly admitted: Ukraine has lost the war in the Donbass and will not be able to recover the lost territories. May it be heard by the Ukrainian war-mongers who still dream of avenging the defeats of the Ukrainian army in the blood of the Donbass inhabitants.

    Christelle Néant
     
    Even hardcore Ukrobanderas acknowledge that the ethnical cleansing of Donbass they wish is highly unlikely.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I said that Ukraine does not want to implement the Minsk Agreements because they are a symbol of the Ukrainian army’s crushing defeat in the Donbass region.

    What “crushing defeat”? The rebels have managed to take the Russified cities and the homeboys have managed to control the Ukrainian countryside. Both sides control about 50% of the whole territory, in what should properly be understood as a stalemate. Perhaps dividing up the territory along the lines that are already de-facto established would be a good starting point to move forward?

  270. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @joniel

    Biden is about as Catholic as the Anti-Christ.

    Replies: @A123

    Biden is about as Catholic as the Anti-Christ.

    (sarc) Stop being unfair to the Anti-Christ. Comparisons to Biden are uncalled for slurs. (/sarc)

    More seriously — At this point Biden is little more than a vegetable. Vice Führer Harris is acting in Joe’s name. I am having trouble blaming recent anti-Catholic regime policy on the rutabaga theoretically in charge.

    The only upside to the situation… A sentient Quid Pro Joe would start a war in Ukraine in return for Burisma bribes. Vice Führer Harris did not get that money, and Veggie Joe is not available to return favours.

    PEACE 😇

  271. @AP
    @Mikhail

    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.

    I’m glad you may be starting to slowly understand.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.

    I’m glad you may be starting to slowly understand.

    You’re revealing a lack of basic comprehension again. As was noted at this thread, Poland became Christian in 966. Rus in 988. A whopping 22 year old difference. The East-West church schism happened in 1054.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mikhail


    As was noted at this thread, Poland became Christian in 966. Rus in 988. A whopping 22 year old difference.
     
    Indeed, about a generation between Poland adopting western Christianity and the Rus choosing eastern Christianity for their subjects, thereby dividing them from their western brothers.

    The East-West church schism happened in 1054.
     
    And if the Rus hadn't picked a different Church for their people, the Slavs of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia and those of Poland would be united on the same side of the divide and a source of contention between these brotherly peoples would no longer exist.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  272. @reiner Tor
    @Beckow


    we don’t fight losing battles – no rational human should
     
    It’s not a one round game, so it’s unclear what’s best.

    Replies: @Beckow

    It’s not a one round game, so it’s unclear what’s best.

    It is if you are dead after the first round.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Beckow

    Well I will perhaps have descendants.

    Replies: @Beckow

  273. @Bashibuzuk
    @AP


    Would Russians acquiesce to having a Ukrainian president almost all the time
     
    Well, when we look at who ruled USSR after Stalin and the prevalence of people with family names ending in "ko" in today's Russian politics, I think we might say that in the last 100 years Russian politics have been possibly more influenced by the ethnic Ukrainians than Ukrainian politics were by ethnic Russians. Also, why should this confederation have a President?; Вся власть советам! Just call the highest level of parliamentary organization "Veche" to accentuate the Slavic identity et voilà!

    Ukrainian to be the second language throughout Russia, while Ukraine itself maintains anti-Russian Ukrainian language policies
     
    There is a way around this linguistic conundrum: revive and modernize Church Slavonic or recreate the ancestral Slav language prior to its separation into dialects that later became languages. It has worked fine in Israel, where the immense majority of the population did not speak Hebrew after their immigration. Hebrew was revived and modernized and now it is a fully functional and thriving language. Arabs use Qur'anic classical Arabic as a communication language because their dialects have diverged. Turks have mostly purged their language from Arabic and Persian loanwords and reconstructed a purer Turkic using Gagauz language among other Turkic languages. It is doable.

    This Uni-Slavic (for a lack of a better word) might be taught to all children starting from the primary school and be used as the 2nd official language throughout the confederation. It would be the language of compromise for everyone, but on the national, regional and local level everyone would speak the language of the majority population in that precise geographic area.

    BTW linguists work on a reconstruction of the common proto-Slav language:

    https://youtu.be/ps1WkmtvnFo

    Just add the technical and scientific vocabulary and all the Slav will have no problem understanding each other forever.

    Where there is will, there's way.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    Well, when we look at who ruled USSR after Stalin and the prevalence of people with family names ending in “ko” in today’s Russian politics, I think we might say that in the last 100 years Russian politics have been possibly more influenced by the ethnic Ukrainians than Ukrainian politics were by ethnic Russians

    The enko ending specifically. But even then, I’m sure numerous DNA studies would confirm that a good number with a enko ending name in Russia have a DNA more commonly associated with northeastern Russia than the most Ukrainian parts of the present Kiev regime controlled Ukraine.

    Tarasenko (Taras and the enko ending) is a very Ukrainian surname.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Tarasenko

    Don’t forget uk, ich and sky ending names (especially uk).

  274. @Mikhail
    @AP


    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.

    I’m glad you may be starting to slowly understand.
     
    You're revealing a lack of basic comprehension again. As was noted at this thread, Poland became Christian in 966. Rus in 988. A whopping 22 year old difference. The East-West church schism happened in 1054.

    Replies: @AP

    As was noted at this thread, Poland became Christian in 966. Rus in 988. A whopping 22 year old difference.

    Indeed, about a generation between Poland adopting western Christianity and the Rus choosing eastern Christianity for their subjects, thereby dividing them from their western brothers.

    The East-West church schism happened in 1054.

    And if the Rus hadn’t picked a different Church for their people, the Slavs of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia and those of Poland would be united on the same side of the divide and a source of contention between these brotherly peoples would no longer exist.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AP


    And if the Rus hadn’t picked a different Church for their people, the Slavs of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia and those of Poland would be united on the same side of the divide and a source of contention between these brotherly peoples would no longer exist.
     
    Can be applied to Poland.

    Replies: @AP

  275. @The Big Red Scary
    @AP

    Are there memoirs of Ukrainian nationalist militia men fighting in Donbass? Preferably in Russian, or translated into English. I'm reading 85 дней Слвянска, and I'd be interested in reading first hand about the other side.

    Replies: @AP

    There’s some stuff like this about Ilovaisk:

    https://vchasnoua.com/donbass/66745-otrymaly-komandu-ity-na-proryv-i-my-pishly-diishly-ne-vsi-spohady-pro-ilovaisku-trahediiu

    (you can use googletranslate into Russian or English)

    Here is a documentary from 2015, much of it in Russian (the Ukrainian volunteers are Russian-speaking) (Disclosure, I’ve only skimmed it):

    A list of stuff here:

    https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%96%D0%B9%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B2%D1%96%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%B2_%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D1%96

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @AP

    The last link is particularly useful. Perhaps I'll start with

    Как я стал бандеровцем. Тень платана.

    Cheers.

  276. @AP
    @Mikhail


    As was noted at this thread, Poland became Christian in 966. Rus in 988. A whopping 22 year old difference.
     
    Indeed, about a generation between Poland adopting western Christianity and the Rus choosing eastern Christianity for their subjects, thereby dividing them from their western brothers.

    The East-West church schism happened in 1054.
     
    And if the Rus hadn't picked a different Church for their people, the Slavs of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia and those of Poland would be united on the same side of the divide and a source of contention between these brotherly peoples would no longer exist.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    And if the Rus hadn’t picked a different Church for their people, the Slavs of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia and those of Poland would be united on the same side of the divide and a source of contention between these brotherly peoples would no longer exist.

    Can be applied to Poland.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mikhail

    Poland had already chosen the western Church when the Rus chose the eastern one.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  277. @Mr. Hack
    @AP


    Yes, Poland was Christianized first with the Western Christianity, a generation later the Rus chose a Christian Church that was rather different from the one adopted by the Poles, thus dividing the Slavs under their control from their Western brothers.
     
    I'm not so sure that there was really very much unity between these Slavic tribes to begin with during the second half of the 10th century? Although you and I have touched on the unproven topic of the possibility of the 'Polianye" tribe being the same in both Poland and in Ukraine in the past. In both countries' development, Slavic tribes known as Polianye were prevalent in the formation of both ethnicities. It would be interesting to know if there was actually any real contacts between these tribes? We certainly know that there were live contacts between various Croat tribes in Western Ukraine, Poland, Bohemia and finally Croatia too.

    What "meddlesome English" of the 17th century do you have in mind?

    Replies: @AP

    I’m not so sure that there was really very much unity between these Slavic tribes to begin with during the second half of the 10th century?

    Politically, no. They were divided tribes, who probably killed one another at a high rate as tribes do. No writing survives to tell us of their adventures. Graves from Ukraine from a few thousand years ago indicate about 20% of people died through violence. But they were probably very similar culturally, they could probably be considered the same people at that time.

    What “meddlesome English” of the 17th century do you have in mind?

    In the early 17th century the Rus lords of the PLC and some of those in Muscovy attempted to unite the two countries but ultimately the Muscovites repelled the “invaders.”

    The English trade mission in Muscovy encouraged anti-Polish stance and British mercenaries fought on the side of the Muscovites against the PLC forces:

    https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2018/06/10/battle-of-klushino/

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AP


    The English trade mission in Muscovy encouraged anti-Polish stance and British mercenaries fought on the side of the Muscovites against the PLC forces:
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscovy_Company

    English trading company chartered in 1555. It was the first major chartered joint stock company, the precursor of the type of business that would soon flourish in England and finance its exploration of the world.

    English intervention should be viewed in a similar perspective to the intervention of the Dutch in Japan, where the Dutch made their best to get the Catholic expelled and massacred. It was a part of the bigger struggle between the Protestant and the Catholic European powers.

    OTOH the Protestant churches made inroads into PLC and were even successful at converting some important aristocratic families. The Radzivils were at a time quite supportive to the Unitarian Lithuanian Brethren.

    Interestingly enough, Innokentyi Gliese, the Prussian convert to Orthodoxy was born into a Unitarian family. He later become the head of the Kiev Pechorskaya Lavra and an important professor of the Mohyla Academy. He wrote the first book about the history of the Rus : the Kievan Synopsis. In that book he describes Rurik and his men as Baltic Slavs (Wends). This book was used in Russia as the standard historical narrative for the next 150 years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Synopsis

  278. @AP
    @Bashibuzuk

    So you would have about 80 million Poles + Ukrainians versus 140 million Russians. What if a large majority of Russians vote to replace the Polish and Ukrainian languages with the Russian language? Or make the Russian Orthodox Church based in Moscow the only Church, because it will be free of non-Slavic influence unlike the Catholic ones linked to the Vatican and the OCU linked to Istanbul? Or give all industries to Moscow-backed oligarchs? They will outvote the Poles and Ukrainians. Russia is simply too big and populous to be a union partner with other Slavic nations who care about their local customs and culture. Belarussians don't seem to care, it's okay for them. But not for the others.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Bashibuzuk, @Anatoly Karlin

    You could expand it to Central Asia. That way the Russians will be outnumbered, and Tajiks are hard workers.

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
  279. @Mikhail
    @AP


    And if the Rus hadn’t picked a different Church for their people, the Slavs of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia and those of Poland would be united on the same side of the divide and a source of contention between these brotherly peoples would no longer exist.
     
    Can be applied to Poland.

    Replies: @AP

    Poland had already chosen the western Church when the Rus chose the eastern one.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AP


    Poland had already chosen the western Church when the Rus chose the eastern one.
     
    Not a case of monkey see, monkey do. In any event, prior to 1054, there wasn't a formal break. For that matter, the Eastern Roman Empire became stronger than the Western variant.
  280. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AP
    @Mr. Hack


    I’m not so sure that there was really very much unity between these Slavic tribes to begin with during the second half of the 10th century?
     
    Politically, no. They were divided tribes, who probably killed one another at a high rate as tribes do. No writing survives to tell us of their adventures. Graves from Ukraine from a few thousand years ago indicate about 20% of people died through violence. But they were probably very similar culturally, they could probably be considered the same people at that time.

    What “meddlesome English” of the 17th century do you have in mind?
     
    In the early 17th century the Rus lords of the PLC and some of those in Muscovy attempted to unite the two countries but ultimately the Muscovites repelled the "invaders."

    The English trade mission in Muscovy encouraged anti-Polish stance and British mercenaries fought on the side of the Muscovites against the PLC forces:

    https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2018/06/10/battle-of-klushino/

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    The English trade mission in Muscovy encouraged anti-Polish stance and British mercenaries fought on the side of the Muscovites against the PLC forces:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscovy_Company

    English trading company chartered in 1555. It was the first major chartered joint stock company, the precursor of the type of business that would soon flourish in England and finance its exploration of the world.

    English intervention should be viewed in a similar perspective to the intervention of the Dutch in Japan, where the Dutch made their best to get the Catholic expelled and massacred. It was a part of the bigger struggle between the Protestant and the Catholic European powers.

    OTOH the Protestant churches made inroads into PLC and were even successful at converting some important aristocratic families. The Radzivils were at a time quite supportive to the Unitarian Lithuanian Brethren.

    Interestingly enough, Innokentyi Gliese, the Prussian convert to Orthodoxy was born into a Unitarian family. He later become the head of the Kiev Pechorskaya Lavra and an important professor of the Mohyla Academy. He wrote the first book about the history of the Rus : the Kievan Synopsis. In that book he describes Rurik and his men as Baltic Slavs (Wends). This book was used in Russia as the standard historical narrative for the next 150 years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Synopsis

    • Thanks: AP
  281. @AP
    @Mikhail

    Poland had already chosen the western Church when the Rus chose the eastern one.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    Poland had already chosen the western Church when the Rus chose the eastern one.

    Not a case of monkey see, monkey do. In any event, prior to 1054, there wasn’t a formal break. For that matter, the Eastern Roman Empire became stronger than the Western variant.

  282. @AP
    @The Big Red Scary

    There's some stuff like this about Ilovaisk:

    https://vchasnoua.com/donbass/66745-otrymaly-komandu-ity-na-proryv-i-my-pishly-diishly-ne-vsi-spohady-pro-ilovaisku-trahediiu

    (you can use googletranslate into Russian or English)

    Here is a documentary from 2015, much of it in Russian (the Ukrainian volunteers are Russian-speaking) (Disclosure, I've only skimmed it):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB_-xU8IJnU

    A list of stuff here:

    https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%96%D0%B9%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B2%D1%96%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%B2_%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D1%96

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    The last link is particularly useful. Perhaps I’ll start with

    Как я стал бандеровцем. Тень платана.

    Cheers.

  283. @Beckow
    @reiner Tor


    It’s not a one round game, so it’s unclear what’s best.
     
    It is if you are dead after the first round.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Well I will perhaps have descendants.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @reiner Tor

    Good, more of us the better. We in felvidek have always excelled in descendants, in fighting less so. We are here, some others are not.


  284. Some Ukrainian somehow managed to crash into a MiG-29 with a van and light it on fire.

    • LOL: Aedib
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Shortsword

    That's some ugly americanized camo pattern. It always reminds me of Super Mario.

    When will the EU decayocrats start to get stomach burning due to lack of observable "Our Democracy"?

    President Zelensky must BAN main opposition party, Western Ukrainian politicians insist branding political bloc ‘internal enemy’

  285. Off topic, but worth noting as the third (in very recent memory) dubious Russia related article appearing in Counterpunch:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/03/12/fool-us-twice-book-review-american-kompromat/

    Plenty of holes in it to punch. The hysterically tabloid person who assisted in Craig Unger’s book:

    Olga Lautman describes herself as a Ukrainian Russian American
    , in a way that leaves out another (based on her surname) likely component to her ethnic religious makeup – not that I believe being of that group is inherently evil. A pointed shot at those not going after Keith Olbermann for his bigoted Russian scum and stain of Russian heritage remarks.

    • Replies: @Shortsword
    @Mikhail


    Off topic, but worth noting as the third (in very recent memory) dubious Russia related article appearing in Counterpunch:
     
    This new one is from Steve O'Keefe again. Just like his last piece this reads like something out The Daily Beast.

    He's a new author on Counterpunch. He's apparently a book editor and book industry professional. He's written books about how to write books and how to get publicity. But other than that it doesn't seem like he writes books himself.

    There isn't that much information about him online. He's had a twitter account since 2009 but hasn't tweeted that much and only the recent tweets are somewhat interesting. I get the impression that his anti-Russian opinions are a recent consequence of getting "redpilled" by reading Craig Unger's book.

    His twitter account: https://twitter.com/steveokeefe

    His review of "House of Trump, House of Putin" from late 2019: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RSMVXFBRU0C32/

    Seems like a retard honestly. Also, take a listen to his hilariously awful music:

    https://soundcloud.com/pianoraga/squeezy

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikhail

    , @El Dato
    @Mikhail

    AfD is now officially #fascist?

    Fascism I can get behind, really!

    Olga has correct priorities:

    https://twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1370561538122260480

    Replies: @Shortsword

  286. @Mikhail
    Off topic, but worth noting as the third (in very recent memory) dubious Russia related article appearing in Counterpunch:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/03/12/fool-us-twice-book-review-american-kompromat/

    Plenty of holes in it to punch. The hysterically tabloid person who assisted in Craig Unger's book:

    https://twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211

    Olga Lautman describes herself as a Ukrainian Russian American
    , in a way that leaves out another (based on her surname) likely component to her ethnic religious makeup - not that I believe being of that group is inherently evil. A pointed shot at those not going after Keith Olbermann for his bigoted Russian scum and stain of Russian heritage remarks.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @El Dato

    Off topic, but worth noting as the third (in very recent memory) dubious Russia related article appearing in Counterpunch:

    This new one is from Steve O’Keefe again. Just like his last piece this reads like something out The Daily Beast.

    He’s a new author on Counterpunch. He’s apparently a book editor and book industry professional. He’s written books about how to write books and how to get publicity. But other than that it doesn’t seem like he writes books himself.

    There isn’t that much information about him online. He’s had a twitter account since 2009 but hasn’t tweeted that much and only the recent tweets are somewhat interesting. I get the impression that his anti-Russian opinions are a recent consequence of getting “redpilled” by reading Craig Unger’s book.

    His twitter account: https://twitter.com/steveokeefe

    His review of “House of Trump, House of Putin” from late 2019: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RSMVXFBRU0C32/

    Seems like a retard honestly. Also, take a listen to his hilariously awful music:

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Shortsword

    The march of Russo-phobic liberals through the institutions is continuing. It pays. There is also the current dust-up in the Atlantic Council because someone dared to suggest 'realism' when dealing with Russia. This is a true religion: constant affirmation of faith, ritual denunciation, witch hunts, simplified and repetitive language, censorship.

    Above all, sinecures are at stake so Russia must be demonised. Even in Counterpunch, there can be no dissent when fighting the devil.

    , @Mikhail
    @Shortsword

    Makes me wonder about Us Intel and Counterpunch.

  287. @AP
    @Beckow


    …The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese).

    What happened to Ukrainians? Have you been cut out?
     
    Not enough of us. But Canada is a different story, their foreign minister is a Ukrainian lady.

    Regarding Brahmins that you are so fond off: the masses of Indians who have come to US – over 5 million – are no Brahmins. They are the usual run-of-the-mill Indian hustlers trying to escape India. A parasitic group if you examine how they function.
     
    More like 4 million, not 5 million.

    Further evidence that your country is loaded with gypsies (contrary to your claims) is that, as we see above, you can't help but think of everyone as a type of gypsy. Reality is that Indians have the highest income of any ethnic group in the USA (higher than Jews) and work as physicians, scientists, higher level engineers, etc. America has gotten their elites.

    A few Untouchables get into the USA. They are ruthlessly discriminated against by the Brahmins:

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/3azjp5/silicon-valley-has-a-caste-discrimination-problem

    Meanwhile your country has the second highest percentage of gypsies in Europe, higher than in Romania and Hungary. Only Bulgaria has more than Slovakia:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342929613/figure/tbl3/AS:[email protected]/Member-states-with-the-highest-estimated-number-of-Roma.png

    So your complaints about Indians, "cholos", etc. are a sort of desperate cope.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard-Mandela

    Not enough of us.

    If you manage to empty Ukraine and move them all out of West, there will be enough. Then they will disappear via mating with the Third World masses…maybe it’s better that way.

    Your table as a retarded NGO propaganda. But it’s pointless to tell you again.

    I will take my chances with a few thousand asocial Gypsies in some remote settlements that I will never see, as opposed to what one sees in London, Brussels, Paris, etc… You should visit the big Central European cities and see for yourself. You will see a lot more Ukrainian service workers and almost no Gypsies.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow

    I’ve been to Poland, there are no Gypsies in that country. No one claimed there were many Gypsies in Bratislava; they are Slovakia’s eastern and southern areas. So despite them being about 8% to 10% if Slovakia’s population they are rare in the capital region. Nothing strange about that - there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Slovakia_roma_2001.PNG

    (numbers are from an older census so they are underestimates)

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mr. Hack, @Beckow

  288. @Shortsword
    @Mikhail


    Off topic, but worth noting as the third (in very recent memory) dubious Russia related article appearing in Counterpunch:
     
    This new one is from Steve O'Keefe again. Just like his last piece this reads like something out The Daily Beast.

    He's a new author on Counterpunch. He's apparently a book editor and book industry professional. He's written books about how to write books and how to get publicity. But other than that it doesn't seem like he writes books himself.

    There isn't that much information about him online. He's had a twitter account since 2009 but hasn't tweeted that much and only the recent tweets are somewhat interesting. I get the impression that his anti-Russian opinions are a recent consequence of getting "redpilled" by reading Craig Unger's book.

    His twitter account: https://twitter.com/steveokeefe

    His review of "House of Trump, House of Putin" from late 2019: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RSMVXFBRU0C32/

    Seems like a retard honestly. Also, take a listen to his hilariously awful music:

    https://soundcloud.com/pianoraga/squeezy

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikhail

    The march of Russo-phobic liberals through the institutions is continuing. It pays. There is also the current dust-up in the Atlantic Council because someone dared to suggest ‘realism’ when dealing with Russia. This is a true religion: constant affirmation of faith, ritual denunciation, witch hunts, simplified and repetitive language, censorship.

    Above all, sinecures are at stake so Russia must be demonised. Even in Counterpunch, there can be no dissent when fighting the devil.

  289. @reiner Tor
    @Beckow

    Well I will perhaps have descendants.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Good, more of us the better. We in felvidek have always excelled in descendants, in fighting less so. We are here, some others are not.

  290. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP


    Not enough of us.
     
    If you manage to empty Ukraine and move them all out of West, there will be enough. Then they will disappear via mating with the Third World masses...maybe it's better that way.

    Your table as a retarded NGO propaganda. But it's pointless to tell you again.

    I will take my chances with a few thousand asocial Gypsies in some remote settlements that I will never see, as opposed to what one sees in London, Brussels, Paris, etc... You should visit the big Central European cities and see for yourself. You will see a lot more Ukrainian service workers and almost no Gypsies.

    Replies: @AP

    I’ve been to Poland, there are no Gypsies in that country. No one claimed there were many Gypsies in Bratislava; they are Slovakia’s eastern and southern areas. So despite them being about 8% to 10% if Slovakia’s population they are rare in the capital region. Nothing strange about that – there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:

    (numbers are from an older census so they are underestimates)

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AP


    there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:
     
    They're quite noticeable enough:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_ethnic_enclaves#Mexican

    https://www.asanet.org/news-events/footnotes/jun-jul-aug-2019/features/latino-population-new-york-city

    https://nacla.org/news/2014/1/23/latino-new-york-introduction

    Replies: @AP

    , @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    One of the largest enclaves of Gypsies to be found within all of Europe is to be found in Slovakia:

    https://youtu.be/rpE4A3KEnO8

    There are many more too. As for Bratislava, there probably are proportionately less, but I think that their presence there is growing all of the time:

    https://youtu.be/8c4V7PFQcS4

    , @Beckow
    @AP

    You are not good with numbers: if in 1 region 4-5%, another 3-4% and 2-3%, and 5 regions are less than 1%, you come up with overall "8-10%".How would that work? That is illiterate math. The census in 2011 was the same, and also the current census. There is also a registration of Gypsies by residence that has 96k - it is compulsory and enforced (you don't want to mess with our bureaucrats, even I don't).

    There are a few ten thousand assimilated or mixed Gypsies, so the real number is probably not 2% but probably 3 to 4%. Same as in 1945. What are you hallucinating about "8-10%"? That is the desperate Soros NGO job, leave it to them. I can assure you and Mr. Hack that in the Western regions the numbers are close to zero. You just don't see them. But we do see a lot of desperate Ukrainians willing to almost anything to live and stay here. Why is that? ( I generally like them.)

    Replies: @AP

  291. @AP
    @Beckow

    I’ve been to Poland, there are no Gypsies in that country. No one claimed there were many Gypsies in Bratislava; they are Slovakia’s eastern and southern areas. So despite them being about 8% to 10% if Slovakia’s population they are rare in the capital region. Nothing strange about that - there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Slovakia_roma_2001.PNG

    (numbers are from an older census so they are underestimates)

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mr. Hack, @Beckow

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mikhail


    there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:

    They’re quite noticeable enough:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_ethnic_enclaves#Mexican
     
    Well, that's 10% of the number just of Puerto Ricans, never mind Dominicans.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  292. @AP
    @Beckow

    I’ve been to Poland, there are no Gypsies in that country. No one claimed there were many Gypsies in Bratislava; they are Slovakia’s eastern and southern areas. So despite them being about 8% to 10% if Slovakia’s population they are rare in the capital region. Nothing strange about that - there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Slovakia_roma_2001.PNG

    (numbers are from an older census so they are underestimates)

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mr. Hack, @Beckow

    One of the largest enclaves of Gypsies to be found within all of Europe is to be found in Slovakia:

    There are many more too. As for Bratislava, there probably are proportionately less, but I think that their presence there is growing all of the time:

  293. @Mikhail
    @AP


    there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:
     
    They're quite noticeable enough:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_ethnic_enclaves#Mexican

    https://www.asanet.org/news-events/footnotes/jun-jul-aug-2019/features/latino-population-new-york-city

    https://nacla.org/news/2014/1/23/latino-new-york-introduction

    Replies: @AP

    there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:

    They’re quite noticeable enough:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_ethnic_enclaves#Mexican

    Well, that’s 10% of the number just of Puerto Ricans, never mind Dominicans.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AP

    Multiple sources put them at number 3 in NY among Latinos

  294. @AP
    @Mikhail


    there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:

    They’re quite noticeable enough:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_ethnic_enclaves#Mexican
     
    Well, that's 10% of the number just of Puerto Ricans, never mind Dominicans.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    Multiple sources put them at number 3 in NY among Latinos

  295. @Shortsword
    @Mikhail


    Off topic, but worth noting as the third (in very recent memory) dubious Russia related article appearing in Counterpunch:
     
    This new one is from Steve O'Keefe again. Just like his last piece this reads like something out The Daily Beast.

    He's a new author on Counterpunch. He's apparently a book editor and book industry professional. He's written books about how to write books and how to get publicity. But other than that it doesn't seem like he writes books himself.

    There isn't that much information about him online. He's had a twitter account since 2009 but hasn't tweeted that much and only the recent tweets are somewhat interesting. I get the impression that his anti-Russian opinions are a recent consequence of getting "redpilled" by reading Craig Unger's book.

    His twitter account: https://twitter.com/steveokeefe

    His review of "House of Trump, House of Putin" from late 2019: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RSMVXFBRU0C32/

    Seems like a retard honestly. Also, take a listen to his hilariously awful music:

    https://soundcloud.com/pianoraga/squeezy

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikhail

    Makes me wonder about Us Intel and Counterpunch.

  296. @AP
    @Beckow

    I’ve been to Poland, there are no Gypsies in that country. No one claimed there were many Gypsies in Bratislava; they are Slovakia’s eastern and southern areas. So despite them being about 8% to 10% if Slovakia’s population they are rare in the capital region. Nothing strange about that - there aren’t many Mexicans in much of America such as New York after all:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Slovakia_roma_2001.PNG

    (numbers are from an older census so they are underestimates)

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mr. Hack, @Beckow

    You are not good with numbers: if in 1 region 4-5%, another 3-4% and 2-3%, and 5 regions are less than 1%, you come up with overall “8-10%“.How would that work? That is illiterate math. The census in 2011 was the same, and also the current census. There is also a registration of Gypsies by residence that has 96k – it is compulsory and enforced (you don’t want to mess with our bureaucrats, even I don’t).

    There are a few ten thousand assimilated or mixed Gypsies, so the real number is probably not 2% but probably 3 to 4%. Same as in 1945. What are you hallucinating about “8-10%”? That is the desperate Soros NGO job, leave it to them. I can assure you and Mr. Hack that in the Western regions the numbers are close to zero. You just don’t see them. But we do see a lot of desperate Ukrainians willing to almost anything to live and stay here. Why is that? ( I generally like them.)

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    You are not good with numbers: if in 1 region 4-5%, another 3-4% and 2-3%, and 5 regions are less than 1%, you come up with overall “8-10%“.How would that work? That is illiterate math.
     
    1. That was 20 years ago.

    2. As we know Slovak census undercounts severely. It's why you falsely assumed American one does also.

    What are you hallucinating about “8-10%”? That is the desperate Soros NGO job
     
    LOL. Even Aljazeera gives 8%-10%.

    Replies: @Beckow

  297. @Beckow
    @AP

    You are not good with numbers: if in 1 region 4-5%, another 3-4% and 2-3%, and 5 regions are less than 1%, you come up with overall "8-10%".How would that work? That is illiterate math. The census in 2011 was the same, and also the current census. There is also a registration of Gypsies by residence that has 96k - it is compulsory and enforced (you don't want to mess with our bureaucrats, even I don't).

    There are a few ten thousand assimilated or mixed Gypsies, so the real number is probably not 2% but probably 3 to 4%. Same as in 1945. What are you hallucinating about "8-10%"? That is the desperate Soros NGO job, leave it to them. I can assure you and Mr. Hack that in the Western regions the numbers are close to zero. You just don't see them. But we do see a lot of desperate Ukrainians willing to almost anything to live and stay here. Why is that? ( I generally like them.)

    Replies: @AP

    You are not good with numbers: if in 1 region 4-5%, another 3-4% and 2-3%, and 5 regions are less than 1%, you come up with overall “8-10%“.How would that work? That is illiterate math.

    1. That was 20 years ago.

    2. As we know Slovak census undercounts severely. It’s why you falsely assumed American one does also.

    What are you hallucinating about “8-10%”? That is the desperate Soros NGO job

    LOL. Even Aljazeera gives 8%-10%.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    I take your incoherent response as a concession. (White people hating Arab Aljazeera? come on, you can do better.)

    Here are the numbers based on registration of population:
    Romany (Gypsy):
    2001 89 920 1.67 %
    2011 105 738 1.96%

    1.96% are Gypsies (Romany in official terminology). In 2021 they are probably higher than 2%, but your crazy exaggerations are way off. Why do you lie so desperately?

    Replies: @utu

  298. @AP
    @Beckow


    …The ones running things will be a mixture of Anglos, Jews, and Asians (Brahmins and Chinese).

    What happened to Ukrainians? Have you been cut out?
     
    Not enough of us. But Canada is a different story, their foreign minister is a Ukrainian lady.

    Regarding Brahmins that you are so fond off: the masses of Indians who have come to US – over 5 million – are no Brahmins. They are the usual run-of-the-mill Indian hustlers trying to escape India. A parasitic group if you examine how they function.
     
    More like 4 million, not 5 million.

    Further evidence that your country is loaded with gypsies (contrary to your claims) is that, as we see above, you can't help but think of everyone as a type of gypsy. Reality is that Indians have the highest income of any ethnic group in the USA (higher than Jews) and work as physicians, scientists, higher level engineers, etc. America has gotten their elites.

    A few Untouchables get into the USA. They are ruthlessly discriminated against by the Brahmins:

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/3azjp5/silicon-valley-has-a-caste-discrimination-problem

    Meanwhile your country has the second highest percentage of gypsies in Europe, higher than in Romania and Hungary. Only Bulgaria has more than Slovakia:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342929613/figure/tbl3/AS:[email protected]/Member-states-with-the-highest-estimated-number-of-Roma.png

    So your complaints about Indians, "cholos", etc. are a sort of desperate cope.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard-Mandela

    Not enough of us

    LOL , so the decrepit POS who calls himself Polish on other forums (WTF?), alternates being Chechen, Polish, East Ukrainian, Ukrainian, Galician, Austrian, German and whatever to do whatever idiot argument you are trying to waste time on, has never been to the country, doesn’t even know the most basic thing about Ukraine when put under scrutiny and unmistakably proved this all many times and recently with the disturbing and hilarious “typical west Ukrainian culture video”…….now refers to “us” when talking about Ukrainians!

    But Canada is a different story, their foreign minister is a Ukrainian lady.

    Let’s see now. Canada,a country which doesn’t even has it’s own international phone code, has absolutely no foreign policy of it’s own as its done entirely in line with US, has probably Fidel Castro’s lovechild as PM, has zero chance of being invaded……..

    picks a journalist to be it’s foreign Minister. LOL you retard. That’s like picking a chimpanzee to be governor of their Central Bank. That’s not a sign of importance or prestige you moron. She also isn’t “Ukrainian” but a permanantly cursed-in-hell ( like you) evil Banderite . That’s the best you can do when talking your fantasist BS?

    What is amusing is that although there is no such thing as a “Ukrainian”, there was news sent to me by an anglo friend that a Police officer in UK has been arrested for kidnapping and murdering a young woman. The police officer is married to a ………”Ukrainian”, and there is a real possibility he could be a serial killer ( another euphemism of serial killer is Ukrainian “nationalist” hero)

    Why do I mention this? The wife of the UK’s worst ever serial killer I found out recently is also…..a Banderetard , probably smuggled out of mainland Europe by British intelligence. It’s good news for “Ukraine”, although it doesn’t prove the ethnicity of “Ukrainian”, it definitely shows the culture these woman have passed onto their husbands – the psychiatric disorder called “Ukrainianism”.

    So it’s embarassing for me, because it proves that Ukrainianism does exist…..but just not as any tangible culture……but as a psychiatric disease!! That obviously accounts for a freak like you also.

    So Britain gets Yelena Mirinova (Helen Mirren) as great Russian world, from non-Russia Banderastan it gets Oksana/Sonya – wife ( and probably instigator) of biggest UK serial killer

    • Replies: @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela


    LOL , so the decrepit POS who calls himself Polish on other forums
     
    Again, it’s funny that in your delusions you are on some other forum, believing someone else is me, and probably writing long desperately angry posts like this to that guy. You have referred to yourself as a women, but I have never pretended to be Polish on any forum.
  299. @AP
    @Beckow


    You are not good with numbers: if in 1 region 4-5%, another 3-4% and 2-3%, and 5 regions are less than 1%, you come up with overall “8-10%“.How would that work? That is illiterate math.
     
    1. That was 20 years ago.

    2. As we know Slovak census undercounts severely. It's why you falsely assumed American one does also.

    What are you hallucinating about “8-10%”? That is the desperate Soros NGO job
     
    LOL. Even Aljazeera gives 8%-10%.

    Replies: @Beckow

    I take your incoherent response as a concession. (White people hating Arab Aljazeera? come on, you can do better.)

    Here are the numbers based on registration of population:
    Romany (Gypsy):
    2001 89 920 1.67 %
    2011 105 738 1.96%

    1.96% are Gypsies (Romany in official terminology). In 2021 they are probably higher than 2%, but your crazy exaggerations are way off. Why do you lie so desperately?

    • Replies: @utu
    @Beckow

    "around 400,000 people, which is around seven and a half per cent of the population, is seen as belonging to the Romani population, even though those people identify themselves as Slovaks"

    "Slovakia is using EU funding to help its Roma community of around 500,000 (9% of the population)."

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-russian-donbass-is-here-to-stay/#comment-4518155

    Replies: @Beckow

  300. @Beckow
    @AP

    I take your incoherent response as a concession. (White people hating Arab Aljazeera? come on, you can do better.)

    Here are the numbers based on registration of population:
    Romany (Gypsy):
    2001 89 920 1.67 %
    2011 105 738 1.96%

    1.96% are Gypsies (Romany in official terminology). In 2021 they are probably higher than 2%, but your crazy exaggerations are way off. Why do you lie so desperately?

    Replies: @utu

    “around 400,000 people, which is around seven and a half per cent of the population, is seen as belonging to the Romani population, even though those people identify themselves as Slovaks”

    “Slovakia is using EU funding to help its Roma community of around 500,000 (9% of the population).”

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-russian-donbass-is-here-to-stay/#comment-4518155

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @utu

    How about lady Ciganikova? Literally little Gypsy, who is successfully hiding in the mainstream population. EU is worried, they always are...

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ciganikova++&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi3w5iY9a3vAhUBATQIHR7WCOAQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=ciganikova++&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJ1DbuwFY27sBYOnKAWgAcAB4AIABOogBOpIBATGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=qwZNYPfBHYGC0PEPnqyjgA4&bih=747&biw=1442#imgrc=iFzUhaVHM7_LIM

    Or do you still prefer goats? We have goats too, maybe even more that "9%", based on the latest developments. I can get you in touch with the little Gypsy, 'she very liberal lady' as my Asian friends say. If you look, you will find...

    Replies: @utu

  301. @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Yeah, I think that Beckow is off his rocker on this one, and is thinking with his sovok heart, and not with his mind. There's absolutely no indication that anybody besides a few old sovoks (probably why he believes in such fairy tales), paid Russian provocaterus and a few Hungarian revanchists want to separate from Ukraine. Over 1,ooo,ooo citizens of this area are perfectly comfortable living within their Ukrainian identity. As far as the language used there is concerned, it's actually a lot like the development in neighboring Galicia and Bukovina (also lands of ancient "Rusyns"). The young and middle aged people all speak a language closest to the one spoken throughout the country, standardized Ukrainian. Nobody but the oldest of remaining babas and didos in Galicia speaks the Galician dialect anymore, the same in Zakarpattya too.

    Replies: @Old jew

    It is the only dialect I know.

  302. @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    Not enough of us
     
    LOL , so the decrepit POS who calls himself Polish on other forums (WTF?), alternates being Chechen, Polish, East Ukrainian, Ukrainian, Galician, Austrian, German and whatever to do whatever idiot argument you are trying to waste time on, has never been to the country, doesn't even know the most basic thing about Ukraine when put under scrutiny and unmistakably proved this all many times and recently with the disturbing and hilarious "typical west Ukrainian culture video".......now refers to "us" when talking about Ukrainians!

    But Canada is a different story, their foreign minister is a Ukrainian lady.
     
    Let's see now. Canada,a country which doesn't even has it's own international phone code, has absolutely no foreign policy of it's own as its done entirely in line with US, has probably Fidel Castro's lovechild as PM, has zero chance of being invaded........

    picks a journalist to be it's foreign Minister. LOL you retard. That's like picking a chimpanzee to be governor of their Central Bank. That's not a sign of importance or prestige you moron. She also isn't "Ukrainian" but a permanantly cursed-in-hell ( like you) evil Banderite . That's the best you can do when talking your fantasist BS?

    What is amusing is that although there is no such thing as a "Ukrainian", there was news sent to me by an anglo friend that a Police officer in UK has been arrested for kidnapping and murdering a young woman. The police officer is married to a ........."Ukrainian", and there is a real possibility he could be a serial killer ( another euphemism of serial killer is Ukrainian "nationalist" hero)

    Why do I mention this? The wife of the UK's worst ever serial killer I found out recently is also.....a Banderetard , probably smuggled out of mainland Europe by British intelligence. It's good news for "Ukraine", although it doesn't prove the ethnicity of "Ukrainian", it definitely shows the culture these woman have passed onto their husbands - the psychiatric disorder called "Ukrainianism".

    So it's embarassing for me, because it proves that Ukrainianism does exist.....but just not as any tangible culture......but as a psychiatric disease!! That obviously accounts for a freak like you also.

    So Britain gets Yelena Mirinova (Helen Mirren) as great Russian world, from non-Russia Banderastan it gets Oksana/Sonya - wife ( and probably instigator) of biggest UK serial killer

    Replies: @AP

    LOL , so the decrepit POS who calls himself Polish on other forums

    Again, it’s funny that in your delusions you are on some other forum, believing someone else is me, and probably writing long desperately angry posts like this to that guy. You have referred to yourself as a women, but I have never pretended to be Polish on any forum.

  303. @mal
    @Levtraro

    Foreigners own only about 1/3 of US public debt (less than $7 trillion) and haven't really added to their holdings since 2014. And really, they can't do much more, at least in quantity required.

    https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124

    And QE is effectively a bank run - it is an admission that nobody would by those Treasurys at the official rate, so central bank has to guarantee they will be the buyer.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Yes most have no clue about the relationship between the Treasury and the Federal Reserve. Most have no clue what they even do.
    You are correct though – it’s all a game. Foreigners as you noted are not really increasing US debt holdings. Russia has basically divested. China is very slowly starting to wind down (though they won’t completely). Only US vassal Japan is not divesting – but indeed has been pressured to buy more.

  304. @utu
    @Beckow

    "around 400,000 people, which is around seven and a half per cent of the population, is seen as belonging to the Romani population, even though those people identify themselves as Slovaks"

    "Slovakia is using EU funding to help its Roma community of around 500,000 (9% of the population)."

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-russian-donbass-is-here-to-stay/#comment-4518155

    Replies: @Beckow

    How about lady Ciganikova? Literally little Gypsy, who is successfully hiding in the mainstream population. EU is worried, they always are…

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ciganikova++&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi3w5iY9a3vAhUBATQIHR7WCOAQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=ciganikova++&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJ1DbuwFY27sBYOnKAWgAcAB4AIABOogBOpIBATGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=qwZNYPfBHYGC0PEPnqyjgA4&bih=747&biw=1442#imgrc=iFzUhaVHM7_LIM

    Or do you still prefer goats? We have goats too, maybe even more that “9%”, based on the latest developments. I can get you in touch with the little Gypsy, ‘she very liberal lady’ as my Asian friends say. If you look, you will find…

    • Replies: @utu
    @Beckow

    Or do you still prefer goats? We have goats too: Are you a goat pimp or a fellow traveler goat connoisseur? You should be more careful with promoting zoophilia tourism to Slovakia:


    Slovakia Bans as Crime Promotion of Zoophilia (November 28, 2019)

    https://newsnow.tasr.sk/crime/slovakia-bans-as-crime-promotion-of-pedophilia-zoophilia-and-necrophilia/

    "the initiative was partly a response to recent articles in the press that seemed to justify the aforementioned sexual disorders."
     

    Replies: @Beckow

  305. The article starts out with “there’s rumors”. I often hear this stupid grammatical mistake but hadn’t seen it in print. A new low. What’s with the revolt against simple correct English?

  306. @Beckow
    @utu

    How about lady Ciganikova? Literally little Gypsy, who is successfully hiding in the mainstream population. EU is worried, they always are...

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ciganikova++&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi3w5iY9a3vAhUBATQIHR7WCOAQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=ciganikova++&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJ1DbuwFY27sBYOnKAWgAcAB4AIABOogBOpIBATGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=qwZNYPfBHYGC0PEPnqyjgA4&bih=747&biw=1442#imgrc=iFzUhaVHM7_LIM

    Or do you still prefer goats? We have goats too, maybe even more that "9%", based on the latest developments. I can get you in touch with the little Gypsy, 'she very liberal lady' as my Asian friends say. If you look, you will find...

    Replies: @utu

    Or do you still prefer goats? We have goats too: Are you a goat pimp or a fellow traveler goat connoisseur? You should be more careful with promoting zoophilia tourism to Slovakia:

    Slovakia Bans as Crime Promotion of Zoophilia (November 28, 2019)

    https://newsnow.tasr.sk/crime/slovakia-bans-as-crime-promotion-of-pedophilia-zoophilia-and-necrophilia/

    “the initiative was partly a response to recent articles in the press that seemed to justify the aforementioned sexual disorders.”

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @utu

    I recall your fondness some time ago for what you called 'country of goats'. Maybe I am wrong, but if you are over it, good.

    Ciganikova is still available. Hurry, soon EU could uncover her as a hidden oppressed minority...the mythical "9%".

    (There is a hint of Nazi obsession in yours and AP's writing, looking for the swarthy intruder everywhere. Maybe you should look around Berlin or Vienna.)

    Replies: @AP

  307. @Shortsword
    https://parlament.ua/wp-content/cache/thumb/05/7fbc16c99b24705_759x425.jpg

    https://parlament.ua/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/photo_2021-03-12_11-28-59.jpg

    https://parlament.ua/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/photo_2021-03-12_11-28-59-3.jpg

    Some Ukrainian somehow managed to crash into a MiG-29 with a van and light it on fire.

    Replies: @El Dato

    That’s some ugly americanized camo pattern. It always reminds me of Super Mario.

    When will the EU decayocrats start to get stomach burning due to lack of observable “Our Democracy”?

    President Zelensky must BAN main opposition party, Western Ukrainian politicians insist branding political bloc ‘internal enemy’

  308. @Mikhail
    Off topic, but worth noting as the third (in very recent memory) dubious Russia related article appearing in Counterpunch:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/03/12/fool-us-twice-book-review-american-kompromat/

    Plenty of holes in it to punch. The hysterically tabloid person who assisted in Craig Unger's book:

    https://twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211

    Olga Lautman describes herself as a Ukrainian Russian American
    , in a way that leaves out another (based on her surname) likely component to her ethnic religious makeup - not that I believe being of that group is inherently evil. A pointed shot at those not going after Keith Olbermann for his bigoted Russian scum and stain of Russian heritage remarks.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @El Dato

    AfD is now officially #fascist?

    Fascism I can get behind, really!

    Olga has correct priorities:

    • Replies: @Shortsword
    @El Dato


    Russian @SenRonJohnson
     
    Not even a Russian asset. Just a Russian.
  309. @utu
    @Beckow

    Or do you still prefer goats? We have goats too: Are you a goat pimp or a fellow traveler goat connoisseur? You should be more careful with promoting zoophilia tourism to Slovakia:


    Slovakia Bans as Crime Promotion of Zoophilia (November 28, 2019)

    https://newsnow.tasr.sk/crime/slovakia-bans-as-crime-promotion-of-pedophilia-zoophilia-and-necrophilia/

    "the initiative was partly a response to recent articles in the press that seemed to justify the aforementioned sexual disorders."
     

    Replies: @Beckow

    I recall your fondness some time ago for what you called ‘country of goats‘. Maybe I am wrong, but if you are over it, good.

    Ciganikova is still available. Hurry, soon EU could uncover her as a hidden oppressed minority…the mythical “9%”.

    (There is a hint of Nazi obsession in yours and AP’s writing, looking for the swarthy intruder everywhere. Maybe you should look around Berlin or Vienna.)

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    Hurry, soon EU could uncover her as a hidden oppressed minority…the mythical “9%”
     
    As we have seen, yours is the country in Europe with the second highest percentage of gypsies. You claimed the figures of 9% or so come exclusively from Soros. This has proven to be false.

    There is a hint of Nazi obsession in yours and AP’s writing, looking for the swarthy intruder everywhere
     
    Projection. I responded with gypsies in Slovakia only after you have been mentioning Africans, Latinos, etc. in the USA.

    Replies: @Beckow

  310. @El Dato
    @Mikhail

    AfD is now officially #fascist?

    Fascism I can get behind, really!

    Olga has correct priorities:

    https://twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1370561538122260480

    Replies: @Shortsword

    Russian @SenRonJohnson

    Not even a Russian asset. Just a Russian.

  311. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @utu

    I recall your fondness some time ago for what you called 'country of goats'. Maybe I am wrong, but if you are over it, good.

    Ciganikova is still available. Hurry, soon EU could uncover her as a hidden oppressed minority...the mythical "9%".

    (There is a hint of Nazi obsession in yours and AP's writing, looking for the swarthy intruder everywhere. Maybe you should look around Berlin or Vienna.)

    Replies: @AP

    Hurry, soon EU could uncover her as a hidden oppressed minority…the mythical “9%”

    As we have seen, yours is the country in Europe with the second highest percentage of gypsies. You claimed the figures of 9% or so come exclusively from Soros. This has proven to be false.

    There is a hint of Nazi obsession in yours and AP’s writing, looking for the swarthy intruder everywhere

    Projection. I responded with gypsies in Slovakia only after you have been mentioning Africans, Latinos, etc. in the USA.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    Envy.

    I see, your way of defending what's going on in US and Western Europe is to project it on others. How would that even theoretically help? It may make you feel better, but it changes nothing about US, London, Brussels, or Paris.

    The percentage of people we are discussing - Africans, cholos, Indians, etc.. - is closer to 30% in the US. In the southwest more. In France they don't keep records, but estimates are that 15-20% of population is of Third World origin. In London a cool 50%. I am not sure it's always precise - Soros minions are everywhere with their multicultural agendas - but I will take the likes of Ciganikova over what the West is facing any day: swarthy or not her ancestors have been with us for about 500 years. She is all right.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @AP

  312. @AP
    @Beckow


    Hurry, soon EU could uncover her as a hidden oppressed minority…the mythical “9%”
     
    As we have seen, yours is the country in Europe with the second highest percentage of gypsies. You claimed the figures of 9% or so come exclusively from Soros. This has proven to be false.

    There is a hint of Nazi obsession in yours and AP’s writing, looking for the swarthy intruder everywhere
     
    Projection. I responded with gypsies in Slovakia only after you have been mentioning Africans, Latinos, etc. in the USA.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Envy.

    I see, your way of defending what’s going on in US and Western Europe is to project it on others. How would that even theoretically help? It may make you feel better, but it changes nothing about US, London, Brussels, or Paris.

    The percentage of people we are discussing – Africans, cholos, Indians, etc.. – is closer to 30% in the US. In the southwest more. In France they don’t keep records, but estimates are that 15-20% of population is of Third World origin. In London a cool 50%. I am not sure it’s always precise – Soros minions are everywhere with their multicultural agendas – but I will take the likes of Ciganikova over what the West is facing any day: swarthy or not her ancestors have been with us for about 500 years. She is all right.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Beckow

    I'm just a one man, but I don't remember seeing any gypsies, when I visited Kosice and Bratislava about a decade ago. Gypsies that I have seen in my life have always been very distinctive in their looks, so it's odd that I didn't notice them in Slovakia, if they have them as many there as some commenters here claim.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    I see, your way of defending what’s going on in US and Western Europe is to project it on others.
     
    I'm just pointing at that your country has a large gypsy population, which makes your complaints about American Latinos rather funny. Latinos are okay, the uneducated ones are mostly like Mediterranean peasants, their middle and upper classes are rather compatible with Slavs (they even have a strong taste for Russian literature), just a little more dramatic. They are far less disruptive than the peoples you host. Envy implies unhappiness with what we have, from this perspective (Latino presence) it is okay.

    USA's problem compared to Eastern Europe, a source of envy, is with many white people having a crazy leftist ideology and this ideology infecting the media education etc. - not the presence of Latinos.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard-Mandela, @silviosilver

  313. @Beckow
    @AP

    Envy.

    I see, your way of defending what's going on in US and Western Europe is to project it on others. How would that even theoretically help? It may make you feel better, but it changes nothing about US, London, Brussels, or Paris.

    The percentage of people we are discussing - Africans, cholos, Indians, etc.. - is closer to 30% in the US. In the southwest more. In France they don't keep records, but estimates are that 15-20% of population is of Third World origin. In London a cool 50%. I am not sure it's always precise - Soros minions are everywhere with their multicultural agendas - but I will take the likes of Ciganikova over what the West is facing any day: swarthy or not her ancestors have been with us for about 500 years. She is all right.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @AP

    I’m just a one man, but I don’t remember seeing any gypsies, when I visited Kosice and Bratislava about a decade ago. Gypsies that I have seen in my life have always been very distinctive in their looks, so it’s odd that I didn’t notice them in Slovakia, if they have them as many there as some commenters here claim.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AltanBakshi

    Exactly, you will not see them. There are a few dozen Gypsy settlements in the south-east that are an issue: asocial behaviour, run-down housing, and constant NGO visitors. Czechia in the former Sudetenland has a similar Gypsy population that moved there after WWII - free housing after Germans were expelled.

    They are registered and tracked at around 2% of the population. There are more who have been assimilated like Ciganikova. Brussels liberals on Soros's payroll and paid-for media try to "estimate" how many there could be. It is like asking everyone in England if they possibly have some partial Irish ancestry, and voila: 20% of English are "estimated" to be actually "Irish". (Beatles was basically an Irish band by their ancestry.)

    AP, Unz and Mr.Hack have an axe to grind: hatreds from generations ago, or frustrated with their own societies.

  314. @AltanBakshi
    @Beckow

    I'm just a one man, but I don't remember seeing any gypsies, when I visited Kosice and Bratislava about a decade ago. Gypsies that I have seen in my life have always been very distinctive in their looks, so it's odd that I didn't notice them in Slovakia, if they have them as many there as some commenters here claim.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Exactly, you will not see them. There are a few dozen Gypsy settlements in the south-east that are an issue: asocial behaviour, run-down housing, and constant NGO visitors. Czechia in the former Sudetenland has a similar Gypsy population that moved there after WWII – free housing after Germans were expelled.

    They are registered and tracked at around 2% of the population. There are more who have been assimilated like Ciganikova. Brussels liberals on Soros’s payroll and paid-for media try to “estimate” how many there could be. It is like asking everyone in England if they possibly have some partial Irish ancestry, and voila: 20% of English are “estimated” to be actually “Irish”. (Beatles was basically an Irish band by their ancestry.)

    AP, Unz and Mr.Hack have an axe to grind: hatreds from generations ago, or frustrated with their own societies.

    • Disagree: Mr. Hack
  315. @Beckow
    @AP

    Envy.

    I see, your way of defending what's going on in US and Western Europe is to project it on others. How would that even theoretically help? It may make you feel better, but it changes nothing about US, London, Brussels, or Paris.

    The percentage of people we are discussing - Africans, cholos, Indians, etc.. - is closer to 30% in the US. In the southwest more. In France they don't keep records, but estimates are that 15-20% of population is of Third World origin. In London a cool 50%. I am not sure it's always precise - Soros minions are everywhere with their multicultural agendas - but I will take the likes of Ciganikova over what the West is facing any day: swarthy or not her ancestors have been with us for about 500 years. She is all right.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @AP

    I see, your way of defending what’s going on in US and Western Europe is to project it on others.

    I’m just pointing at that your country has a large gypsy population, which makes your complaints about American Latinos rather funny. Latinos are okay, the uneducated ones are mostly like Mediterranean peasants, their middle and upper classes are rather compatible with Slavs (they even have a strong taste for Russian literature), just a little more dramatic. They are far less disruptive than the peoples you host. Envy implies unhappiness with what we have, from this perspective (Latino presence) it is okay.

    USA’s problem compared to Eastern Europe, a source of envy, is with many white people having a crazy leftist ideology and this ideology infecting the media education etc. – not the presence of Latinos.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...many white people having a crazy leftist ideology
     
    On that we agree.

    Very few Latinos are middle-upper class. There is an indisputable mestizo population in US that is not what empires are built on. You see them everywhere. Good luck, but Latin America has been at this for a few hundred years and they didn't make it too far.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Gerard-Mandela
    @AP


    I’m just pointing at that your country has a large gypsy population
     
    LMAO- let's get this freakshow in sequence. Slovakia - a country that Ukrainians are literally begging to get into- without having to do all the toilet-cleaning, prostitution, 22 hour shifts on farmland and human-trafficking that Poles are asking for them in what can only be described as the Rape Of Ukraine.....are being "attacked" by a hideous POS as yourself, a person who has never been to the country he is "defending" , knows f*ck all about it and embarrasses himself on it when under the most basic scrutiny,,,,and who is "attacking" a country, Slovakia, that you have never been to, no nothing about - while inventing a line of "argument" you dishonestly don't even believe in as it is just instantaneous BS over what is a successful country.

    all a demented loser as yourself is doing is insidiously copying and pasting some BS you have immediately seen on Wikipedia. As if a tramp like you knows anything about influence of gypsies there. LOL

    Will there be be more fantasist posting under Polish sockpuppet accounts?

    Well if you are some retard who likes to forget about the avalanche of extreme crime - kidnappings, murders, rapes, drugs and other extreme events that happen regularly in Mexico and Guatemala - then its hard for the mind to come up with this BS:

    Latinos are okay, the uneducated ones are mostly like Mediterranean peasants, their middle and upper classes are rather compatible with Slavs
     
    I'm sure alot of these are good, hardworking people. So what? It will and is already changing the cultural, social structure of the US and will clearly have big impact on crime. If I were an American I would be very concerned and embarrassed about an avalanche of these people coming into the country.......and the country being minority white in a few decades.

    America is on schedule to be majority Hispanic in the next few decades.......after only a few decades of hispanic mass migration there. Many hispanics in the power structures already, large levels of intermarriage

    Slovakia after millenia of living with gypsies on their land.....have minimal percentage of them there you dumb POS. Slovak culture untouched - and not even 0.1% of the power structure there is gypsy, near zero intermarriage, crime incomparably low compared to US. It is therefore beyond retarded to be making a false equivalency that a piece of garbage as yourself is doing.

    heir middle and upper classes are rather compatible with Slavs
    rather compatible with Slavs (they even have a strong taste for Russian literature)
     
    Yes, well the large sections of those from communist-leaning/committed Marxist families in South America

    Latinos are okay, the uneducated ones are mostly like Mediterranean peasants
     
    HAHAHAHAHA! South of Italy poorest areas are having nothing close to level of Mexican kidnappings, murders and general violence and extreme events you imbecile. Is the next cretin line to compare them to Spaniards? .........must we have another million posts of you commenting on another country and culture you know nothing about ( Spain), just for you to indulge your sick fantasist garbage? Please, God no!

    Replies: @Beckow, @AP

    , @silviosilver
    @AP

    Lol, this is some heavy duty coping. And to think that you're (myopically, as ever) only referring to the present demographic picture. I don't even want to imagine how bad your coping would be if you were forced to consider long-term demographic scenarios. (Muh Brahmins,...double lol.)

    Replies: @AP

  316. @AP
    @Beckow


    I see, your way of defending what’s going on in US and Western Europe is to project it on others.
     
    I'm just pointing at that your country has a large gypsy population, which makes your complaints about American Latinos rather funny. Latinos are okay, the uneducated ones are mostly like Mediterranean peasants, their middle and upper classes are rather compatible with Slavs (they even have a strong taste for Russian literature), just a little more dramatic. They are far less disruptive than the peoples you host. Envy implies unhappiness with what we have, from this perspective (Latino presence) it is okay.

    USA's problem compared to Eastern Europe, a source of envy, is with many white people having a crazy leftist ideology and this ideology infecting the media education etc. - not the presence of Latinos.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard-Mandela, @silviosilver

    …many white people having a crazy leftist ideology

    On that we agree.

    Very few Latinos are middle-upper class. There is an indisputable mestizo population in US that is not what empires are built on. You see them everywhere. Good luck, but Latin America has been at this for a few hundred years and they didn’t make it too far.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    Very few Latinos are middle-upper class
     
    Hispanics are about 20% of the US population but 9% of the upper middle class:

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2017/10/04/white-still-the-american-upper-middle-class

    “Hispanics make up approximately 17 percent of the overall population aged 40 to 50, but just 9 percent of the upper middle class. For blacks, the numbers are 12 percent and 7 percent, respectively.”

    This is partially an effect of recent immigration. But one can find Cubans, Venezuelans, some Mexicans and Colombians among the upper middle class. As I mentioned, these guys and girls mix well with Slavs.


    indisputable mestizo population in US that is not what empires are built on. You see them everywhere. Good luck, but Latin America has been at this for a few hundred years and they didn’t make it too far.
     
    Sure, but Latin American countries are something like 60% to 80% Mestizo with a Sanish framework. America after many years will be around 40% with a retained Anglo framework. Or rather, they will mix with our people to produce a large Anglo-Castizo working class. That has not existed anywhere before, there is no precedent.

    Replies: @Beckow

  317. @AP
    @Beckow


    I see, your way of defending what’s going on in US and Western Europe is to project it on others.
     
    I'm just pointing at that your country has a large gypsy population, which makes your complaints about American Latinos rather funny. Latinos are okay, the uneducated ones are mostly like Mediterranean peasants, their middle and upper classes are rather compatible with Slavs (they even have a strong taste for Russian literature), just a little more dramatic. They are far less disruptive than the peoples you host. Envy implies unhappiness with what we have, from this perspective (Latino presence) it is okay.

    USA's problem compared to Eastern Europe, a source of envy, is with many white people having a crazy leftist ideology and this ideology infecting the media education etc. - not the presence of Latinos.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard-Mandela, @silviosilver

    I’m just pointing at that your country has a large gypsy population

    LMAO- let’s get this freakshow in sequence. Slovakia – a country that Ukrainians are literally begging to get into- without having to do all the toilet-cleaning, prostitution, 22 hour shifts on farmland and human-trafficking that Poles are asking for them in what can only be described as the Rape Of Ukraine…..are being “attacked” by a hideous POS as yourself, a person who has never been to the country he is “defending” , knows f*ck all about it and embarrasses himself on it when under the most basic scrutiny,,,,and who is “attacking” a country, Slovakia, that you have never been to, no nothing about – while inventing a line of “argument” you dishonestly don’t even believe in as it is just instantaneous BS over what is a successful country.

    all a demented loser as yourself is doing is insidiously copying and pasting some BS you have immediately seen on Wikipedia. As if a tramp like you knows anything about influence of gypsies there. LOL

    Will there be be more fantasist posting under Polish sockpuppet accounts?

    Well if you are some retard who likes to forget about the avalanche of extreme crime – kidnappings, murders, rapes, drugs and other extreme events that happen regularly in Mexico and Guatemala – then its hard for the mind to come up with this BS:

    Latinos are okay, the uneducated ones are mostly like Mediterranean peasants, their middle and upper classes are rather compatible with Slavs

    I’m sure alot of these are good, hardworking people. So what? It will and is already changing the cultural, social structure of the US and will clearly have big impact on crime. If I were an American I would be very concerned and embarrassed about an avalanche of these people coming into the country…….and the country being minority white in a few decades.

    America is on schedule to be majority Hispanic in the next few decades…….after only a few decades of hispanic mass migration there. Many hispanics in the power structures already, large levels of intermarriage

    Slovakia after millenia of living with gypsies on their land…..have minimal percentage of them there you dumb POS. Slovak culture untouched – and not even 0.1% of the power structure there is gypsy, near zero intermarriage, crime incomparably low compared to US. It is therefore beyond retarded to be making a false equivalency that a piece of garbage as yourself is doing.

    heir middle and upper classes are rather compatible with Slavs
    rather compatible with Slavs (they even have a strong taste for Russian literature)

    Yes, well the large sections of those from communist-leaning/committed Marxist families in South America

    Latinos are okay, the uneducated ones are mostly like Mediterranean peasants

    HAHAHAHAHA! South of Italy poorest areas are having nothing close to level of Mexican kidnappings, murders and general violence and extreme events you imbecile. Is the next cretin line to compare them to Spaniards? ………must we have another million posts of you commenting on another country and culture you know nothing about ( Spain), just for you to indulge your sick fantasist garbage? Please, God no!

    • LOL: Jatt Aryaa
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Gerard-Mandela

    There is an emotional element of denial when you talk to people like AP: they don't want to see what is in front of their eyes, they focus on minutia, project on others, etc...At the end, it is a coping mechanism - they really don't have much of a choice. They - or their parents and grandparents - f..up royally and there is no way back.

    Replies: @AP

    , @AP
    @Gerard-Mandela


    It will and is already changing the cultural, social structure of the US and will clearly have big impact on crime
     
    They do, they lower the crime rate. They have made LA much safer.

    Ron Unz did a lot of research in this:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-hispanic-crime/

    Replies: @EldnahYm

  318. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP


    ...many white people having a crazy leftist ideology
     
    On that we agree.

    Very few Latinos are middle-upper class. There is an indisputable mestizo population in US that is not what empires are built on. You see them everywhere. Good luck, but Latin America has been at this for a few hundred years and they didn't make it too far.

    Replies: @AP

    Very few Latinos are middle-upper class

    Hispanics are about 20% of the US population but 9% of the upper middle class:

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2017/10/04/white-still-the-american-upper-middle-class

    “Hispanics make up approximately 17 percent of the overall population aged 40 to 50, but just 9 percent of the upper middle class. For blacks, the numbers are 12 percent and 7 percent, respectively.”

    This is partially an effect of recent immigration. But one can find Cubans, Venezuelans, some Mexicans and Colombians among the upper middle class. As I mentioned, these guys and girls mix well with Slavs.

    indisputable mestizo population in US that is not what empires are built on. You see them everywhere. Good luck, but Latin America has been at this for a few hundred years and they didn’t make it too far.

    Sure, but Latin American countries are something like 60% to 80% Mestizo with a Sanish framework. America after many years will be around 40% with a retained Anglo framework. Or rather, they will mix with our people to produce a large Anglo-Castizo working class. That has not existed anywhere before, there is no precedent.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...they will mix with our people to produce a large Anglo-Castizo working class. That has not existed anywhere before, there is no precedent.
     
    I have no idea what that is, but why not take a chance? After all, places like Brazil, South Africa and Belize have worked out so well.

    It won't be different: the results are baked in, biology is biology.

    Replies: @AP

  319. @AP
    @Beckow


    I see, your way of defending what’s going on in US and Western Europe is to project it on others.
     
    I'm just pointing at that your country has a large gypsy population, which makes your complaints about American Latinos rather funny. Latinos are okay, the uneducated ones are mostly like Mediterranean peasants, their middle and upper classes are rather compatible with Slavs (they even have a strong taste for Russian literature), just a little more dramatic. They are far less disruptive than the peoples you host. Envy implies unhappiness with what we have, from this perspective (Latino presence) it is okay.

    USA's problem compared to Eastern Europe, a source of envy, is with many white people having a crazy leftist ideology and this ideology infecting the media education etc. - not the presence of Latinos.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard-Mandela, @silviosilver

    Lol, this is some heavy duty coping. And to think that you’re (myopically, as ever) only referring to the present demographic picture. I don’t even want to imagine how bad your coping would be if you were forced to consider long-term demographic scenarios. (Muh Brahmins,…double lol.)

    • Replies: @AP
    @silviosilver

    As I wrote, long term the USA will have a population that will be perhaps 40% Latino. So what?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Shortsword, @silviosilver

  320. @silviosilver
    @AP

    Lol, this is some heavy duty coping. And to think that you're (myopically, as ever) only referring to the present demographic picture. I don't even want to imagine how bad your coping would be if you were forced to consider long-term demographic scenarios. (Muh Brahmins,...double lol.)

    Replies: @AP

    As I wrote, long term the USA will have a population that will be perhaps 40% Latino. So what?

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AP

    Brazil del Norte



    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/a2/c3/22a2c322365f6a3a395a5df3c10b5dbc.jpg

    , @Shortsword
    @AP

    Why only 40%?

    https://factreal.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/aztlanmap.png

    :)

    Replies: @AP

    , @silviosilver
    @AP


    As I wrote, long term the USA will have a population that will be perhaps 40% Latino. So what?
     
    So that's shit, that's what. It's undesirable. Obviously. And you are obviously coping hard by pretending otherwise.

    Would you be saying the same things if Ukraine were slated to become 40% latrino? You don't even have to reply, because we all know the true answer to that question.

    Fwiw, I don't actually think hispanics are all that horrible, even if I consider them undesirable. I'll concede that there are (barely) enough "good ones" that even if an area goes 75% hispanic, it doesn't necessarily spell doom. Still, there is just no way in hell their growing presence can be considered good news, no matter how hard copers like you try.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @AP

  321. @AP
    @silviosilver

    As I wrote, long term the USA will have a population that will be perhaps 40% Latino. So what?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Shortsword, @silviosilver

    Brazil del Norte

    [MORE]

  322. @AP
    @silviosilver

    As I wrote, long term the USA will have a population that will be perhaps 40% Latino. So what?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @Shortsword, @silviosilver

    Why only 40%?

    🙂

    • Replies: @AP
    @Shortsword

    Because the fertility rate is dropping in both Latin America and with the local Latino community. The percentage will still increase from its current ~20% due to ongoing immigration, but will not be more than 40%. They are projected to be 30% by 2050. Of course, many of these will be of mixed descent.

    The map is silly. Most of the people who escaped from Mexico would not want their region to become Mexico.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Shortsword, @silviosilver

  323. AP says:
    @Shortsword
    @AP

    Why only 40%?

    https://factreal.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/aztlanmap.png

    :)

    Replies: @AP

    Because the fertility rate is dropping in both Latin America and with the local Latino community. The percentage will still increase from its current ~20% due to ongoing immigration, but will not be more than 40%. They are projected to be 30% by 2050. Of course, many of these will be of mixed descent.

    The map is silly. Most of the people who escaped from Mexico would not want their region to become Mexico.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @AP

    Also the Anglos would be more advanced in terms of selection for breeders, plus Latino immigrants are ofc concentrated in TFR-reducing cities. Could be a spike to 30% followed by relative attrition down to 20%.

    Young Latinos are a Bernie-voting bloc, so could be even more vulnerable to modern anti-natality memeplexes once their first gen immigrant traditionalists die off.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Shortsword
    @AP

    But this picture is funny

    https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1593989132456.png

    Replies: @EldnahYm

    , @silviosilver
    @AP


    The percentage will still increase from its current ~20% due to ongoing immigration, but will not