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To IQ research (h/t whyvert):

sweden-no-to-iq

Strictly speaking, this isn’t exactly accurate – Lynn and Vanhanen peg Somali IQ at around 72 – but it’s certainly closer to the mark than the politically correct European 100.

Anyhow, while I realize that Sweden is basically a meme country at this point, this is still an incredible development.

In previous years, the Swedish media had merely hounded doctors who made factually correct statements about IQ.

mensa-sweden-cucks

Now we are at the stage where the criminal justice system of a country that scores 100/100 on Freedom House’s freedom rating is being used to effectively ban IQ research, following in the footsteps of noted SJW Stalin in the 1930s.

I think we all suspected this would happen eventually. Sweden is the canary in the coalmine so far as general trends in the West are concerned. If this case sets a precedent, we could see a gradual stifling of this research in Europe, Britain, and eventually the US (ironically, at about the same time as race differences in IQ are definitively confirmed by advances in genomics).

Anyhow, hopefully someone will keep an eye on this case. Perhaps IQ researchers in the area could volunteer their services to try to make this into a Scopes Monkey Trial.

If not, well, too bad for Western civilization. But China has no time for baizuo idiocy and will continue to plow ahead.

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Censorship, Hate Speech, SJWs, Sweden 
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  1. songbird says:

    If Heidi Stensmyren ever needs an operation, I think it would be best for Sweden if she showed that she was not racist by being operated on by a Somali doctor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Plastic surgeon who gave bride-to-be 'permanent brain damage' during a tummy tuck filmed videos of herself dancing and singing during surgeries

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5754797/Plastic-surgeon-filmed-videos-dancing-singing-surgeries.html#ixzz5GHsEePxP
    , @El Dato
    Then she wakes up trans!

    "It's a Miracle!" to quote Roger Waters.
    , @Okechukwu

    If Heidi Stensmyren ever needs an operation, I think it would be best for Sweden if she showed that she was not racist by being operated on by a Somali doctor.
     
    Sure. Most people with a brain will take a competent Somali doctor over a stupid and incompetent white doctor.
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  2. Dmitry says:

    Village witch hunt.

    His comment must seem somehow threatening to a self image of an enlightened, tolerant, egalitarian, non-judgemental Swedish.

    But of course, the fact of the witch hunt itself is what reverses the impression. What can you see in this kind of trial and prosecution of a man for a simple opinion, except narrow-mindedness, parochialism, lack of free-thinking and lack of tolerance for different ideas.

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  3. Mr. XYZ says:

    Banning this research after science will demonstrate that racial and ethnic gaps in average IQ are (mostly?) genetic (something which will be proved in any case, since the Chinese will do it if the West won’t) would be extremely counterproductive. In such a scenario, this issue will need to be honestly discussed so that racists can avoid monopolizing the conversation in regards to this. Indeed, it is quite reasonable to say that individuals shouldn’t be judged based on the average of their ethnic group and that, in any case, mistreating low IQ individuals is wrong.

    Also, as a side note, could some Eastern European countries–such as Poland and Hungary–become centers of IQ research if things in the West will become too crazy due to SJWs? I mean, Poland and Hungary are certainly no China, but they are more closely located to Western Europe and thus Western European IQ researchers who will dislike the Lysenkoism in their home countries won’t have to move very far.

    In addition to this, Yes, people who support, say, allowing unqualified doctors to practice medicine with the help of affirmative action should be willing to have these doctors perform surgeries on them. After all, this would allow these people to show that they are actually willing to put their own lives on the line (as opposed to putting other people’s lives on the line).

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Also, as a side note, could some Eastern European countries–such as Poland and Hungary–become centers of IQ research if things in the West will become too crazy due to SJWs?
     
    There's nothing there to research. For millennia everyone already knew that stupid people sire stupid kids; that is, knew until the post-Christian West lots its collective marbles.

    You don't need a scientific institute to regain common sense, you just need to eject post-Christian cultists from the media and from places of power.
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  4. Mr. XYZ says:

    : Yep. Specifically, let it be a Somali doctor whose IQ is a standard deviation less than that of the average Swedish doctor.

    : Completely agreed.

    Also, people fail to grasp that refusing to talk about the possibility of a genetic cause to racial and ethnic gaps in average IQs does a disservice to lower-performing racial and ethnic groups. After all, as Linda Gottfredson wrote, having a low IQ makes life more difficult for people since they are less capable of dealing with the complexity in life. Thus, if you are going to teach underperformers–a disproportionate percentage of whom belong to certain racial and ethnic groups–that interventions or whatever is going to make them perform as well as the better-performing racial and ethnic groups, then you are only setting themselves up for anger and disappointment once they will see that reality won’t conform to their expectations.

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  5. Mr. XYZ says:

    : Frankly, after racial and ethnic gaps in average IQ are proven to be genetic, I’d like to see how exactly left-wingers are going to rationalize their attempts to silence and shame hereditarians over the previous several decades (for instance, this includes the SPLC labeling hereditarians such as Arthur Jensen, Charles Murray, and Linda Gottfredson as extremists).

    Are they going to say that they didn’t want minorities’ feelings to get hurt? If so, I’d like to see how exactly blaming White people for continued minority underperformance is beneficial for non-Asian minorities. After all, blaming White people for this could only make non-Asian minorities paranoid and make them believe that malicious White people are purposely reducing their average IQs and their quality of life. How exactly are White-minority relations supposed to be good and productive when White people are consistently blamed for non-Asian minorities’ underperformance?

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  6. In the 70′s? Not bad: http://dailycaller.com/2018/05/17/somali-immigrants-day-care-fraud/

    In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

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  7. utu says:
    @songbird
    If Heidi Stensmyren ever needs an operation, I think it would be best for Sweden if she showed that she was not racist by being operated on by a Somali doctor.

    Plastic surgeon who gave bride-to-be ‘permanent brain damage’ during a tummy tuck filmed videos of herself dancing and singing during surgeries

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5754797/Plastic-surgeon-filmed-videos-dancing-singing-surgeries.html#ixzz5GHsEePxP

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    I am going to assume the video is of a surgery that did not go badly, so I will admit to laughing.
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  8. Sweden never disappoints.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    Sweden never disappoints.
     
    And neither do you, Uncle Wong.

    Gee, what do we have here? It appears thousands of Chinese students are expelled and deported every year for cheating, low grades and general academic incompetence.

    U.S. COLLEGES EXPELLED AS MANY AS 8,000 CHINESE STUDENTS IN 3 YEARS

    http://www.newsweek.com/us-colleges-expelled-many-8000-chinese-students-3-years-337445

    Great work, ICE. Ship them out before they murder Americans while trying to practice medicine.
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  9. It’s ironic, because Sweden was one of the pioneers of eugenics in the 1920s. Uppsala University had one of the leading centers. On top of that, Sweden forcibly sterilised close to 70 000 gypsies if I am not mistaken, as well as many native Swedish women who were considered “dullards”.

    That was among the highest in per capita sterilisations of any Western country. I believe only Canada was close. It is therefore very curious that the pendulum has shifted so dramatically in Sweden (and Canada). Maybe they are simply very sensitive to new trends and go further with them once/when the wind shifts. I note that Sweden has arguably the strongest far-right movement of any European country except perhaps Greece and certainly outside of Europe in any Western country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I note that Sweden has arguably the strongest far-right movement of any European country except perhaps Greece and certainly outside of Europe in any Western country.
     
    Doesn't seem to be true. Surely Austria has the largest movement in Western Europe? And if including all of the EU, surely Poland?
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  10. Sweden YES!

    Swedish comic shows Superhero attacking Polish Nationalist with pride flag

    Via Google Translate:

    “In the story are Polish nationalists trying to stop a pride train in Warsaw. The Phantom can not agree and intervenes,” writes Fantasy editor Mikael Sol in an email to Aftonbladet.

    I first doubted the veracity of the story when I heard about it a few days ago, it just seemed too perfect to be true. But once again, stereotyping is redeemed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    4chan must now illustrate the Rise of Mecha-Kaczynski. Doctor Doom parallels abound.
    , @reiner Tor
    OT

    You cited data in the other thread showing that Hungarian youth didn’t improve over the older generation.

    Some probable reasons for this:

    - Orbán didn’t spend much on education. (Instead he built stadiums for our shitty football teams.) This makes teachers (already left leaning) super motivated in their leftist activism.

    - It also makes students feel neglected and so opposed to Orbán. The psychological impact is huge - shitty football teams get enormous amounts from the public but schools get very little. The message to the students is that Orbán doesn’t care for their future.

    - Orbán made free university education contingent on signing a paper promising to work (and pay taxes) in Hungary for a number of years. Not very popular with people intent on leaving the country.

    - The extremely lowbrow anti-immigrant campaign.

    Europe now stands for the opposite of Orbán - high quality education, higher salaries, freedom of movement (to Western Europe for higher salaries), etc.
    , @TelfoedJohn
    Fantomen - The Phantom - is very popular in Sweden. In the comic he lives as a benevolent leader amongst Africans, like a UN Mission in spandex. The kind of moral superhero loved by a moral superpower.
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  11. @Polish Perspective
    Sweden YES!

    Swedish comic shows Superhero attacking Polish Nationalist with pride flag

    https://i.imgur.com/iHHc10e.jpg

    Via Google Translate:


    "In the story are Polish nationalists trying to stop a pride train in Warsaw. The Phantom can not agree and intervenes," writes Fantasy editor Mikael Sol in an email to Aftonbladet.
     
    I first doubted the veracity of the story when I heard about it a few days ago, it just seemed too perfect to be true. But once again, stereotyping is redeemed.

    4chan must now illustrate the Rise of Mecha-Kaczynski. Doctor Doom parallels abound.

    Read More
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  12. Stalinism in Russia was NOT true Marxism, but Sweden might get there over time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    There’s no such thing as “true Marxism.”
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  13. El Dato says:
    @songbird
    If Heidi Stensmyren ever needs an operation, I think it would be best for Sweden if she showed that she was not racist by being operated on by a Somali doctor.

    Then she wakes up trans!

    “It’s a Miracle!” to quote Roger Waters.

    Read More
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  14. @Felix Keverich
    Stalinism in Russia was NOT true Marxism, but Sweden might get there over time.

    There’s no such thing as “true Marxism.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniil Adamov
    Well, the teachings of Marx would be it (except, I suppose, for the bit where Marx himself said he wasn't a Marxist). But this has nothing to do with it.
    , @Felix Keverich
    I was referring to this.
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/double-horseshoe-theory/
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  15. @Polish Perspective
    Sweden YES!

    Swedish comic shows Superhero attacking Polish Nationalist with pride flag

    https://i.imgur.com/iHHc10e.jpg

    Via Google Translate:


    "In the story are Polish nationalists trying to stop a pride train in Warsaw. The Phantom can not agree and intervenes," writes Fantasy editor Mikael Sol in an email to Aftonbladet.
     
    I first doubted the veracity of the story when I heard about it a few days ago, it just seemed too perfect to be true. But once again, stereotyping is redeemed.

    OT

    You cited data in the other thread showing that Hungarian youth didn’t improve over the older generation.

    Some probable reasons for this:

    - Orbán didn’t spend much on education. (Instead he built stadiums for our shitty football teams.) This makes teachers (already left leaning) super motivated in their leftist activism.

    - It also makes students feel neglected and so opposed to Orbán. The psychological impact is huge – shitty football teams get enormous amounts from the public but schools get very little. The message to the students is that Orbán doesn’t care for their future.

    - Orbán made free university education contingent on signing a paper promising to work (and pay taxes) in Hungary for a number of years. Not very popular with people intent on leaving the country.

    - The extremely lowbrow anti-immigrant campaign.

    Europe now stands for the opposite of Orbán – high quality education, higher salaries, freedom of movement (to Western Europe for higher salaries), etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    - Orbán didn’t spend much on education

    And it looks like you are going to lose your last best chance with the possible closing of the Central European University. :)

    , @reiner Tor
    An example of the lowbrow anti-immigrant campaign in Hungary:

    There was some German joke on an Onion-like website that in honor of Ramadan they changed the name of the German city Essen (“Eating”) to Fasten (“Fasting”). The “news” story was then announced by the public TV channel as such (as part of a report on some other immigrant-related story from Germany), but was spotted by Hungarian viewers who can speak German and is now spreading around Facebook. Since very few people watch the public channel anyway, I wonder if it’s a net positive at all from an alt-right viewpoint. It probably produces at least as many pro-immigration fanatics (who will be inoculated against anti-immigration news stories) as anti-immigration people. Especially among the educated classes.
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  16. @reiner Tor
    There’s no such thing as “true Marxism.”

    Well, the teachings of Marx would be it (except, I suppose, for the bit where Marx himself said he wasn’t a Marxist). But this has nothing to do with it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    It’s impossible to implement them, so no political system ever will conform with “true Marxism.”

    But I shouldn’t have made the remark.
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  17. @reiner Tor
    There’s no such thing as “true Marxism.”
    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Ah, okay, then. I’m sleepy, no coffee yet.
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  18. @Felix Keverich
    I was referring to this.
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/double-horseshoe-theory/

    Ah, okay, then. I’m sleepy, no coffee yet.

    Read More
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  19. @Daniil Adamov
    Well, the teachings of Marx would be it (except, I suppose, for the bit where Marx himself said he wasn't a Marxist). But this has nothing to do with it.

    It’s impossible to implement them, so no political system ever will conform with “true Marxism.”

    But I shouldn’t have made the remark.

    Read More
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  20. Pericles says:

    Following up on some of the links shows that this is just one of several convictions for badspeak (“hets mot folkgrupp” or basically hatespeech).

    There is of course also a hardcore leftist social media snitching organization in place, Näthatsgranskaren, which basically means ‘internet hatred monitor’. (Shall we take a wild guess and assume it’s tax funded? Usually the case with these things.) Here are the very strict but proud hall monitors in their own words.

    More than 40 prosecutions have been brought after our 700 citizen crime reports of mainly hatespeech, below is one of them. Investigations are ongoing for many hundreds so more prosecutions to come. We are now making new searches and writing a few comments before we take some Christmas holidays

    About the association
    The Association Näthatsgranskaren is a non-profit organization registered with the Tax Agency. The association’s organization number is: 802511-3310. The association is registered for VAT and is registered as an employer.

    The vast majority of the association’s work is done on a volunteer basis by about 20 active members. Some persons receive a salary for their work. The association’s funding comes from membership fees, donations and gifts, as well as the project funds received by the association, including the project Valfrid, financed by the Ministry of Youth and Civil Affairs, MUCF.

    Tomas Åberg works as investigator and project manager. The association’s chairman and responsible publisher is Kenneth Bodin.

    Yep, tax funded.

    They make a big deal about just following existing laws. Fair enough, perhaps the real problem is the insane laws.

    https://twitter.com/nathatgranskare

    http://xn--nthatsgranskaren-vnb.se/

    Read More
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  21. Beckow says:

    Can we still call Pauline stupid?

    Swedish government is also sending a booklet ‘Prepare for war’ to all citizens. I think they expect Lukashenko’s presidential guard to swim across the Baltic, or maybe they spotted the usual ‘Russian’ submarines. A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants, is worried about being invaded by – who else – The Russians. I am not so sure about the generic Swedish IQ, never mind the Somalis.

    Last year I was in Stockholm, the Arlandia Express broke down as soon as we left the airport for the city. Locals said that it happens a lot. After about 45 minutes we all piled into a few oversized, old buses with Third World smell and people from every sub-Saharan country, so crowded that they could use the Tokyo subway ‘pushers’. It barely moved, there were no announcements, no help. I looked for Uber or a taxi, there were none. Stockholm subway was dirty, menacing and noisy, the city center over-run with migrants, streets dirty. Quite a country, but I heard there are some nice areas further out. I am sure Pauline and her friends will eventually get to them too. Good luck, Sweden.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    Ever since Crimea there has been an absolutely massive fear mongering propaganda push over Russia. They have a certain set of recurring narratives with no historical precedent like "Russia wants Gotland to control the Baltic Sea" that are nevertheless presented by pro-NATO "experts" as factual expositions of Russian strategic planning. There is next to no criticism of this ridiculous fear mongering in the Swedish media.

    The fear propaganda is working in Sweden but curiously not in Finland - support for NATO has increased in Sweden but dropped in Finland. (I used to be pro-NATO but I can clearly see that we are being manipulated into something and that can't be good.)

    Way before the term SJW, Finnish internet used the meme "former Stalinist". A journalist who was previously known for his pro-Soviet opinions kept presenting the United States as an example of successful multiculturalism in a TV debate and a confused nationalist asked "wait a minute, why are you praising America, aren't you a Stalinist?". He was slightly taken aback but then declared himself a "former Stalinist" on the spot, sparking years of memes about "former Stalinists" who all now push for NATO membership, russophobia, immigration and worship of magic communist negroes as our new moral leaders.

    What has been happening to the West since the 1960s is really a slow motion Bolshevik revolution. It's not "cultural Marxism", it's just Marxism. They are the same people who took over Russia in 1917 who haven't even changed their beliefs, only their tactics. Russia may have lost the Cold War but the Reds won.
    , @Pericles


    Last year I was in Stockholm, the Arlandia Express broke down as soon as we left the airport for the city. Locals said that it happens a lot. After about 45 minutes we all piled into a few oversized, old buses with Third World smell and people from every sub-Saharan country, so crowded that they could use the Tokyo subway ‘pushers’. It barely moved, there were no announcements, no help. I looked for Uber or a taxi, there were none. Stockholm subway was dirty, menacing and noisy, the city center over-run with migrants, streets dirty. Quite a country, but I heard there are some nice areas further out. I am sure Pauline and her friends will eventually get to them too. Good luck, Sweden.

     

    Harsh but, alas, not false. I remember returning to Stockholm by this route after a longish trip abroad and, on seeing the streams of mud people rushing past, thinking 'Welcome to the Third World, Pericles'. Last time I used Arlanda Express, the nominally high speed airport train, it had some sort of issue and limped back to Stockholm an hour or so late. Sigh.

    You must have had some bad luck with the taxis though, because they normally swarm the train central. Usually quite nice too, but expensive as hell. (It's a cozy oligopoly.)
    , @Pericles

    A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants, is worried about being invaded by – who else – The Russians. I am not so sure about the generic Swedish IQ, never mind the Somalis.

     

    Well, Russia is one of our historic enemies after all, and though we were last invaded by Russians 200+ years ago, the hysterical (((media))) do their best to liven things up. In the same vein, did you know that Russian trolls have afflicted the Swedish online debate severely and may have distorted the (((truth))) and driven certain (((debaters))) away? Fie, I say.

    The booklet is basically reheated Cold War instructions.
    , @Anonymous

    A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants
     
    In the last 20 years in Sweden I don't think there have been anywhere near one million non-European and Muslim European migrants.
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  22. @Mr. XYZ
    Banning this research after science will demonstrate that racial and ethnic gaps in average IQ are (mostly?) genetic (something which will be proved in any case, since the Chinese will do it if the West won't) would be extremely counterproductive. In such a scenario, this issue will need to be honestly discussed so that racists can avoid monopolizing the conversation in regards to this. Indeed, it is quite reasonable to say that individuals shouldn't be judged based on the average of their ethnic group and that, in any case, mistreating low IQ individuals is wrong.

    Also, as a side note, could some Eastern European countries--such as Poland and Hungary--become centers of IQ research if things in the West will become too crazy due to SJWs? I mean, Poland and Hungary are certainly no China, but they are more closely located to Western Europe and thus Western European IQ researchers who will dislike the Lysenkoism in their home countries won't have to move very far.

    In addition to this, Yes, people who support, say, allowing unqualified doctors to practice medicine with the help of affirmative action should be willing to have these doctors perform surgeries on them. After all, this would allow these people to show that they are actually willing to put their own lives on the line (as opposed to putting other people's lives on the line).

    Also, as a side note, could some Eastern European countries–such as Poland and Hungary–become centers of IQ research if things in the West will become too crazy due to SJWs?

    There’s nothing there to research. For millennia everyone already knew that stupid people sire stupid kids; that is, knew until the post-Christian West lots its collective marbles.

    You don’t need a scientific institute to regain common sense, you just need to eject post-Christian cultists from the media and from places of power.

    Read More
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  23. @Polish Perspective
    Sweden YES!

    Swedish comic shows Superhero attacking Polish Nationalist with pride flag

    https://i.imgur.com/iHHc10e.jpg

    Via Google Translate:


    "In the story are Polish nationalists trying to stop a pride train in Warsaw. The Phantom can not agree and intervenes," writes Fantasy editor Mikael Sol in an email to Aftonbladet.
     
    I first doubted the veracity of the story when I heard about it a few days ago, it just seemed too perfect to be true. But once again, stereotyping is redeemed.

    Fantomen – The Phantom – is very popular in Sweden. In the comic he lives as a benevolent leader amongst Africans, like a UN Mission in spandex. The kind of moral superhero loved by a moral superpower.

    Read More
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  24. Completely off-topic, but check out this chart:

    The Ukraine is dying out! First 3 months of 2018 – only 85.000 babies; 21,6% of Russia’s level. And fertility rate at 1,31 is probably the lowest in Europe at this point.

    That is assuming Ukrainian statistics is telling us truth, and there is still 42 million people in the Ukraine. I suspect the actual number is closer to 32 million. For example, if we apply Russian fertility patterns to the Ukraine, it would produce an estimate of:

    147*0,216=31,75 million.

    Another interesting data point is South Korea. The first major nation to drop under 1.o TFR – something is deeply wrong in the SK society.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    The Ukraine is dying out! First 3 months of 2018 – only 85.000 babies; 21,6% of Russia’s level.
     
    To be precise: the pro-Russian parts of Ukraine are dying out. You are gloating at the extinction of your own people (or at least, allies):

    http://datatowel.in.ua/natural/birth-death-regions-historical

    This only goes to the end of 2016 but the pattern hasn't changed.

    The rest of Ukraine is not much different from Russia itself. The western parts may be a little better.

    That is assuming Ukrainian statistics is telling us truth, and there is still 42 million people in the Ukraine
     
    42 million excludes Crimea but includes DNR/LNR. So the Ukrainian state has around 38 million plus however many Donbas refugees have moved to Kiev-controlled territory. If the low birth rate in Ukraine includes DNR/LNR than that accounts for huge amount of the loss.

    38 million is 26.4% of Russia's population. If births are 21.6% of Russia's, the relative drop is not so dramatic, and not so bad from the perspective of the Ukrainian state given that it represents a decline in the more pro-Russian population within the state.
    , @Toronto Russian

    Another interesting data point is South Korea. The first major nation to drop under 1.o TFR – something is deeply wrong in the SK society.
     
    https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-day-like-for-a-Japanese-or-Korean-high-school-student

    https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-working-culture-like-in-Korea

    Would you bring a living being into the world for such hellish existence?
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Korea somehow managed to acquire all of the negative aspects of Japanese work culture, without any of the positives while being simultaneously pummeled with liberal values thanks to their American masters.

    Its fun.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Japan's figures are actually not that bad. Consider:

    • The country is in East Asia
    • The country has very few immigrants or people of immigrant origin (note: South Korea now has quite a lot)
    • The country has been prosperous for a long time
    • The country in this century has gone from Italian levels of female workforce participation to above American levels

    Japan might even have a higher TFR than some white nations once you strip out the TFR of the invaders. Note that it's comparable to Finland (few invaders until quite recently) and Scotland (98% white)

    Obviously TFR of 1.43 and Japan is making a number of wrong moves, but this speaks to some sort of resilience in Japan which doesn't exist elsewhere among confucian orientals.

    As for what's wrong with South Korea, perhaps one of our oriental commenters can answer. From the outside two things stand out:

    • The plastic surgery obsession
    • The decision to embrace multiculturalism and immigration (Global Korea, dropping the pledge to the Han race)

    South Korea's conscription might unintentionally contribute. It gives women a head start in the workforce, thereby inflating their earning power over men of the same age cohort. As women want to marry up and orientals are famously materialistic, this could have a materially negative impact on family formation.

    I suggest comparative demography between conscription countries to volunteer countries as a research topic.
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  25. neutral says:

    I also come across this story on the same day as reading this one:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-22/sweden-warns-every-single-household-prep-war

    It looks like they are attempting to instil patriotardism into their population, why worry about third world population replacement when Putin is about to invade Sweden.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles

    It looks like they are attempting to instil patriotardism into their population, why worry about third world population replacement when Putin is about to invade Sweden.

     

    I only regret they didn't publish a version in Arabic. The sound you would hear is that of bags packing, lol.
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  26. @Beckow
    Can we still call Pauline stupid?

    Swedish government is also sending a booklet 'Prepare for war' to all citizens. I think they expect Lukashenko's presidential guard to swim across the Baltic, or maybe they spotted the usual 'Russian' submarines. A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants, is worried about being invaded by - who else - The Russians. I am not so sure about the generic Swedish IQ, never mind the Somalis.

    Last year I was in Stockholm, the Arlandia Express broke down as soon as we left the airport for the city. Locals said that it happens a lot. After about 45 minutes we all piled into a few oversized, old buses with Third World smell and people from every sub-Saharan country, so crowded that they could use the Tokyo subway 'pushers'. It barely moved, there were no announcements, no help. I looked for Uber or a taxi, there were none. Stockholm subway was dirty, menacing and noisy, the city center over-run with migrants, streets dirty. Quite a country, but I heard there are some nice areas further out. I am sure Pauline and her friends will eventually get to them too. Good luck, Sweden.

    Ever since Crimea there has been an absolutely massive fear mongering propaganda push over Russia. They have a certain set of recurring narratives with no historical precedent like “Russia wants Gotland to control the Baltic Sea” that are nevertheless presented by pro-NATO “experts” as factual expositions of Russian strategic planning. There is next to no criticism of this ridiculous fear mongering in the Swedish media.

    The fear propaganda is working in Sweden but curiously not in Finland – support for NATO has increased in Sweden but dropped in Finland. (I used to be pro-NATO but I can clearly see that we are being manipulated into something and that can’t be good.)

    Way before the term SJW, Finnish internet used the meme “former Stalinist”. A journalist who was previously known for his pro-Soviet opinions kept presenting the United States as an example of successful multiculturalism in a TV debate and a confused nationalist asked “wait a minute, why are you praising America, aren’t you a Stalinist?”. He was slightly taken aback but then declared himself a “former Stalinist” on the spot, sparking years of memes about “former Stalinists” who all now push for NATO membership, russophobia, immigration and worship of magic communist negroes as our new moral leaders.

    What has been happening to the West since the 1960s is really a slow motion Bolshevik revolution. It’s not “cultural Marxism”, it’s just Marxism. They are the same people who took over Russia in 1917 who haven’t even changed their beliefs, only their tactics. Russia may have lost the Cold War but the Reds won.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    Russia may have lost the Cold War but the Reds won.
     
    As a Russian I disagree. Russia actually won since the country isn't communist anymore. Of course 7 decades of communism have taken a heavy toll, but unlike US and Western Europe, there is still hope. That and the simple fact that Russian people have never lived better.
    , @inertial
    Instapundit links to a photo of an American tank in Finland doing live-fire exercises with the Finnish army. According to the post and the comments, the Finns expect a Russian invasion any minute now...
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  27. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor
    OT

    You cited data in the other thread showing that Hungarian youth didn’t improve over the older generation.

    Some probable reasons for this:

    - Orbán didn’t spend much on education. (Instead he built stadiums for our shitty football teams.) This makes teachers (already left leaning) super motivated in their leftist activism.

    - It also makes students feel neglected and so opposed to Orbán. The psychological impact is huge - shitty football teams get enormous amounts from the public but schools get very little. The message to the students is that Orbán doesn’t care for their future.

    - Orbán made free university education contingent on signing a paper promising to work (and pay taxes) in Hungary for a number of years. Not very popular with people intent on leaving the country.

    - The extremely lowbrow anti-immigrant campaign.

    Europe now stands for the opposite of Orbán - high quality education, higher salaries, freedom of movement (to Western Europe for higher salaries), etc.

    - Orbán didn’t spend much on education

    And it looks like you are going to lose your last best chance with the possible closing of the Central European University. :)

    Read More
    • LOL: reiner Tor
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  28. @reiner Tor
    OT

    You cited data in the other thread showing that Hungarian youth didn’t improve over the older generation.

    Some probable reasons for this:

    - Orbán didn’t spend much on education. (Instead he built stadiums for our shitty football teams.) This makes teachers (already left leaning) super motivated in their leftist activism.

    - It also makes students feel neglected and so opposed to Orbán. The psychological impact is huge - shitty football teams get enormous amounts from the public but schools get very little. The message to the students is that Orbán doesn’t care for their future.

    - Orbán made free university education contingent on signing a paper promising to work (and pay taxes) in Hungary for a number of years. Not very popular with people intent on leaving the country.

    - The extremely lowbrow anti-immigrant campaign.

    Europe now stands for the opposite of Orbán - high quality education, higher salaries, freedom of movement (to Western Europe for higher salaries), etc.

    An example of the lowbrow anti-immigrant campaign in Hungary:

    There was some German joke on an Onion-like website that in honor of Ramadan they changed the name of the German city Essen (“Eating”) to Fasten (“Fasting”). The “news” story was then announced by the public TV channel as such (as part of a report on some other immigrant-related story from Germany), but was spotted by Hungarian viewers who can speak German and is now spreading around Facebook. Since very few people watch the public channel anyway, I wonder if it’s a net positive at all from an alt-right viewpoint. It probably produces at least as many pro-immigration fanatics (who will be inoculated against anti-immigration news stories) as anti-immigration people. Especially among the educated classes.

    Read More
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  29. @Jaakko Raipala
    Ever since Crimea there has been an absolutely massive fear mongering propaganda push over Russia. They have a certain set of recurring narratives with no historical precedent like "Russia wants Gotland to control the Baltic Sea" that are nevertheless presented by pro-NATO "experts" as factual expositions of Russian strategic planning. There is next to no criticism of this ridiculous fear mongering in the Swedish media.

    The fear propaganda is working in Sweden but curiously not in Finland - support for NATO has increased in Sweden but dropped in Finland. (I used to be pro-NATO but I can clearly see that we are being manipulated into something and that can't be good.)

    Way before the term SJW, Finnish internet used the meme "former Stalinist". A journalist who was previously known for his pro-Soviet opinions kept presenting the United States as an example of successful multiculturalism in a TV debate and a confused nationalist asked "wait a minute, why are you praising America, aren't you a Stalinist?". He was slightly taken aback but then declared himself a "former Stalinist" on the spot, sparking years of memes about "former Stalinists" who all now push for NATO membership, russophobia, immigration and worship of magic communist negroes as our new moral leaders.

    What has been happening to the West since the 1960s is really a slow motion Bolshevik revolution. It's not "cultural Marxism", it's just Marxism. They are the same people who took over Russia in 1917 who haven't even changed their beliefs, only their tactics. Russia may have lost the Cold War but the Reds won.

    Russia may have lost the Cold War but the Reds won.

    As a Russian I disagree. Russia actually won since the country isn’t communist anymore. Of course 7 decades of communism have taken a heavy toll, but unlike US and Western Europe, there is still hope. That and the simple fact that Russian people have never lived better.

    Read More
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  30. Pericles says:
    @Beckow
    Can we still call Pauline stupid?

    Swedish government is also sending a booklet 'Prepare for war' to all citizens. I think they expect Lukashenko's presidential guard to swim across the Baltic, or maybe they spotted the usual 'Russian' submarines. A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants, is worried about being invaded by - who else - The Russians. I am not so sure about the generic Swedish IQ, never mind the Somalis.

    Last year I was in Stockholm, the Arlandia Express broke down as soon as we left the airport for the city. Locals said that it happens a lot. After about 45 minutes we all piled into a few oversized, old buses with Third World smell and people from every sub-Saharan country, so crowded that they could use the Tokyo subway 'pushers'. It barely moved, there were no announcements, no help. I looked for Uber or a taxi, there were none. Stockholm subway was dirty, menacing and noisy, the city center over-run with migrants, streets dirty. Quite a country, but I heard there are some nice areas further out. I am sure Pauline and her friends will eventually get to them too. Good luck, Sweden.

    Last year I was in Stockholm, the Arlandia Express broke down as soon as we left the airport for the city. Locals said that it happens a lot. After about 45 minutes we all piled into a few oversized, old buses with Third World smell and people from every sub-Saharan country, so crowded that they could use the Tokyo subway ‘pushers’. It barely moved, there were no announcements, no help. I looked for Uber or a taxi, there were none. Stockholm subway was dirty, menacing and noisy, the city center over-run with migrants, streets dirty. Quite a country, but I heard there are some nice areas further out. I am sure Pauline and her friends will eventually get to them too. Good luck, Sweden.

    Harsh but, alas, not false. I remember returning to Stockholm by this route after a longish trip abroad and, on seeing the streams of mud people rushing past, thinking ‘Welcome to the Third World, Pericles’. Last time I used Arlanda Express, the nominally high speed airport train, it had some sort of issue and limped back to Stockholm an hour or so late. Sigh.

    You must have had some bad luck with the taxis though, because they normally swarm the train central. Usually quite nice too, but expensive as hell. (It’s a cozy oligopoly.)

    Read More
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  31. Pericles says:
    @Beckow
    Can we still call Pauline stupid?

    Swedish government is also sending a booklet 'Prepare for war' to all citizens. I think they expect Lukashenko's presidential guard to swim across the Baltic, or maybe they spotted the usual 'Russian' submarines. A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants, is worried about being invaded by - who else - The Russians. I am not so sure about the generic Swedish IQ, never mind the Somalis.

    Last year I was in Stockholm, the Arlandia Express broke down as soon as we left the airport for the city. Locals said that it happens a lot. After about 45 minutes we all piled into a few oversized, old buses with Third World smell and people from every sub-Saharan country, so crowded that they could use the Tokyo subway 'pushers'. It barely moved, there were no announcements, no help. I looked for Uber or a taxi, there were none. Stockholm subway was dirty, menacing and noisy, the city center over-run with migrants, streets dirty. Quite a country, but I heard there are some nice areas further out. I am sure Pauline and her friends will eventually get to them too. Good luck, Sweden.

    A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants, is worried about being invaded by – who else – The Russians. I am not so sure about the generic Swedish IQ, never mind the Somalis.

    Well, Russia is one of our historic enemies after all, and though we were last invaded by Russians 200+ years ago, the hysterical (((media))) do their best to liven things up. In the same vein, did you know that Russian trolls have afflicted the Swedish online debate severely and may have distorted the (((truth))) and driven certain (((debaters))) away? Fie, I say.

    The booklet is basically reheated Cold War instructions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    You have to ask yourself why a re-heated Cold war 'prepare for war' booklet was released. It could be something innocent, like a few busy-body byrocrats looking for something to do. Or it is a flat-footed result of some meeting with the 'Atlantic' alliance that some Swedish byrocrats took too seriously. It could scare the migrants and we wouldn't want that, would we?

    last invaded by Russians 200+ years ago
     
    I hate to be picky, here, but when and by whom? It could be that if you include wars over Ingria and Finland in 18th century, you could say there was an 'invasion'. I am not sure I would. My point is that there has never been a single Russian soldier on Swedish soil in 1,000 years, Sweden as is it is today. No invasion, nada, zilch. Why would they start now? Maybe craving that Somali take-out food?

    The Arlanda broke 1-2 stations after the airport, there was nothing there. I nice Swedish girl guided me through it, she was on her way to work in some suburb and told me that it takes her 1 1/2 hour each day to get to work. But housing is so scarce and expensive that she can only afford to live by the airport. But she - and the rest of the Swedes - were amazingly passive and fatalistic about it all. I admire that, but it won't work in the long run.
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  32. Pericles says:
    @neutral
    I also come across this story on the same day as reading this one:
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-22/sweden-warns-every-single-household-prep-war

    It looks like they are attempting to instil patriotardism into their population, why worry about third world population replacement when Putin is about to invade Sweden.

    It looks like they are attempting to instil patriotardism into their population, why worry about third world population replacement when Putin is about to invade Sweden.

    I only regret they didn’t publish a version in Arabic. The sound you would hear is that of bags packing, lol.

    Read More
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  33. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Polish Perspective
    It's ironic, because Sweden was one of the pioneers of eugenics in the 1920s. Uppsala University had one of the leading centers. On top of that, Sweden forcibly sterilised close to 70 000 gypsies if I am not mistaken, as well as many native Swedish women who were considered "dullards".

    That was among the highest in per capita sterilisations of any Western country. I believe only Canada was close. It is therefore very curious that the pendulum has shifted so dramatically in Sweden (and Canada). Maybe they are simply very sensitive to new trends and go further with them once/when the wind shifts. I note that Sweden has arguably the strongest far-right movement of any European country except perhaps Greece and certainly outside of Europe in any Western country.

    I note that Sweden has arguably the strongest far-right movement of any European country except perhaps Greece and certainly outside of Europe in any Western country.

    Doesn’t seem to be true. Surely Austria has the largest movement in Western Europe? And if including all of the EU, surely Poland?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    In Switzerland the far right SVP is strong- and part of the government since it's founding.
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  34. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beckow
    Can we still call Pauline stupid?

    Swedish government is also sending a booklet 'Prepare for war' to all citizens. I think they expect Lukashenko's presidential guard to swim across the Baltic, or maybe they spotted the usual 'Russian' submarines. A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants, is worried about being invaded by - who else - The Russians. I am not so sure about the generic Swedish IQ, never mind the Somalis.

    Last year I was in Stockholm, the Arlandia Express broke down as soon as we left the airport for the city. Locals said that it happens a lot. After about 45 minutes we all piled into a few oversized, old buses with Third World smell and people from every sub-Saharan country, so crowded that they could use the Tokyo subway 'pushers'. It barely moved, there were no announcements, no help. I looked for Uber or a taxi, there were none. Stockholm subway was dirty, menacing and noisy, the city center over-run with migrants, streets dirty. Quite a country, but I heard there are some nice areas further out. I am sure Pauline and her friends will eventually get to them too. Good luck, Sweden.

    A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants

    In the last 20 years in Sweden I don’t think there have been anywhere near one million non-European and Muslim European migrants.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow

    anywhere near one million non-European and Muslim European migrants
     
    Official statistic from 2017 says that 31% of 10 million Swedes are migrants or their children. Sure, there are lost of Swedes, Poles, etc... but I think it would be reasonable to assume that at least a third of the migrants are Third World - and that gives your over 1 million. Walking around Stockholm I would guess a lot more.
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  35. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich
    Completely off-topic, but check out this chart:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd3otnuV4AAO3iG.jpg

    The Ukraine is dying out! First 3 months of 2018 - only 85.000 babies; 21,6% of Russia's level. And fertility rate at 1,31 is probably the lowest in Europe at this point.

    That is assuming Ukrainian statistics is telling us truth, and there is still 42 million people in the Ukraine. I suspect the actual number is closer to 32 million. For example, if we apply Russian fertility patterns to the Ukraine, it would produce an estimate of:

    147*0,216=31,75 million.

    Another interesting data point is South Korea. The first major nation to drop under 1.o TFR - something is deeply wrong in the SK society.

    The Ukraine is dying out! First 3 months of 2018 – only 85.000 babies; 21,6% of Russia’s level.

    To be precise: the pro-Russian parts of Ukraine are dying out. You are gloating at the extinction of your own people (or at least, allies):

    http://datatowel.in.ua/natural/birth-death-regions-historical

    This only goes to the end of 2016 but the pattern hasn’t changed.

    The rest of Ukraine is not much different from Russia itself. The western parts may be a little better.

    That is assuming Ukrainian statistics is telling us truth, and there is still 42 million people in the Ukraine

    42 million excludes Crimea but includes DNR/LNR. So the Ukrainian state has around 38 million plus however many Donbas refugees have moved to Kiev-controlled territory. If the low birth rate in Ukraine includes DNR/LNR than that accounts for huge amount of the loss.

    38 million is 26.4% of Russia’s population. If births are 21.6% of Russia’s, the relative drop is not so dramatic, and not so bad from the perspective of the Ukrainian state given that it represents a decline in the more pro-Russian population within the state.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    To be precise: the pro-Russian parts of Ukraine are dying out. You are gloating at the extinction of your own people (or at least, allies):

    http://datatowel.in.ua/natural/birth-death-regions-historical

    This only goes to the end of 2016 but the pattern hasn’t changed.
     
    I'm not seeing it. This website shows that regions with the lowest birthrates are Sumy and Chernigov - hardly pro-Russian. Western Ukraine always had relatively higher birthrates, due to greater percentage of the rural population, but the difference is not dramatic, and make no mistake about it, every part of the country was affected by the recent downturn.
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  36. songbird says:
    @utu
    Plastic surgeon who gave bride-to-be 'permanent brain damage' during a tummy tuck filmed videos of herself dancing and singing during surgeries

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5754797/Plastic-surgeon-filmed-videos-dancing-singing-surgeries.html#ixzz5GHsEePxP

    I am going to assume the video is of a surgery that did not go badly, so I will admit to laughing.

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  37. jtgw says:

    LOL @ “chews cat”. Took me a while to figure out Google Translate meant the mildly narcotic qat rather than the domestic animal species.

    Read More
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  38. @AP

    The Ukraine is dying out! First 3 months of 2018 – only 85.000 babies; 21,6% of Russia’s level.
     
    To be precise: the pro-Russian parts of Ukraine are dying out. You are gloating at the extinction of your own people (or at least, allies):

    http://datatowel.in.ua/natural/birth-death-regions-historical

    This only goes to the end of 2016 but the pattern hasn't changed.

    The rest of Ukraine is not much different from Russia itself. The western parts may be a little better.

    That is assuming Ukrainian statistics is telling us truth, and there is still 42 million people in the Ukraine
     
    42 million excludes Crimea but includes DNR/LNR. So the Ukrainian state has around 38 million plus however many Donbas refugees have moved to Kiev-controlled territory. If the low birth rate in Ukraine includes DNR/LNR than that accounts for huge amount of the loss.

    38 million is 26.4% of Russia's population. If births are 21.6% of Russia's, the relative drop is not so dramatic, and not so bad from the perspective of the Ukrainian state given that it represents a decline in the more pro-Russian population within the state.

    To be precise: the pro-Russian parts of Ukraine are dying out. You are gloating at the extinction of your own people (or at least, allies):

    http://datatowel.in.ua/natural/birth-death-regions-historical

    This only goes to the end of 2016 but the pattern hasn’t changed.

    I’m not seeing it. This website shows that regions with the lowest birthrates are Sumy and Chernigov – hardly pro-Russian. Western Ukraine always had relatively higher birthrates, due to greater percentage of the rural population, but the difference is not dramatic, and make no mistake about it, every part of the country was affected by the recent downturn.

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
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  39. @Felix Keverich
    Completely off-topic, but check out this chart:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd3otnuV4AAO3iG.jpg

    The Ukraine is dying out! First 3 months of 2018 - only 85.000 babies; 21,6% of Russia's level. And fertility rate at 1,31 is probably the lowest in Europe at this point.

    That is assuming Ukrainian statistics is telling us truth, and there is still 42 million people in the Ukraine. I suspect the actual number is closer to 32 million. For example, if we apply Russian fertility patterns to the Ukraine, it would produce an estimate of:

    147*0,216=31,75 million.

    Another interesting data point is South Korea. The first major nation to drop under 1.o TFR - something is deeply wrong in the SK society.

    Another interesting data point is South Korea. The first major nation to drop under 1.o TFR – something is deeply wrong in the SK society.

    https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-day-like-for-a-Japanese-or-Korean-high-school-student

    https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-working-culture-like-in-Korea

    Would you bring a living being into the world for such hellish existence?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    At least in the first link (which is also about Japan) - are you sure ? At least from watching videos, school looks pretty nice in Japan, and some of their schools they grow the food for lunch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL5mKE4e4uU

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  40. AP says:

    This website shows that regions with the lowest birthrates are Sumy and Chernigov – hardly pro-Russian.

    Donetsk was even worse.

    Western Ukraine always had relatively higher birthrates, due to greater percentage of the rural population

    Sumy is as rural as western Ukraine. Lviv oblast is not rural; Lviv is a larger city than Luhansk. Lviv had 27,000 births, 32,000 deaths in 2016.

    You are correct in that the pro-Ukrainian northeast is no better than the pro-Russian east.

    However Sumy and Chernihiv are a small portion of the pro-Ukrainian areas, whereas Donbas and Kharkiv are a large portion of the relatively pro-Russian areas. So overall the low birth rates are hitting the pro-Russian parts of Ukraine much harder.

    2015 birth rates by oblast:

    2015 birth rate by raion:

    Interactive map for the latter is here:

    http://datatowel.in.ua/natural/raion-birth-rate

    ::::::::::::::::::

    Here are birth statistics by oblast. They are not good:

    http://www.ukrstat.gov.ua/

    You will have to click on “Природний рух населення у січні-березні 2018 року”

    In the first 3 months of 2018, there were the following number of births in these oblasts:

    Kiev City: 8,615
    Dnipropetrovsk: 6,458
    Odessa: 5,811
    Lviv: 5,732
    Kharkiv: 5,113
    Kiev oblast: 3,878
    Transcarpathia – 3,459
    Zaporizhia – 3,298

    Currently there are 2.7 million people in Kharkiv oblast (5113 births) and 2.5 million in Lviv oblast (5732 births).

    Over time Lviv will overtake Kharkiv in size.

    Among relatively pro-Russian areas in Ukraine, only Odessa is keeping up demographically. The others are fading away.

    Extrapolating to the year*, it would be about 23,000 births in Lviv oblast (population 2.5 million) or a birth rate of 9.2. But Transcarpathia in western Ukraine – 11, Volyn 10.8.

    Now look at the south/east – In Kharkiv – 7.4. In Zaporizhia – 7.6. In Dnipropetrovsk (which has basically flipped to pro-Ukrainian) – 8.0. Odesa is the bright spot – 9.7.

    In comparison to different countries – Russia 13.3; Poland 9.7; Hungary 9.4; Romania and Serbia – 9.3; Bulgaria 9.2; Germany 9.0, Croatia 8.9; Greece 8.5; Portugal 8.3; Italy 8.0

    Other than Poland and Russia, the other countries have “inflated” birth rates due to migrants in the West and gypsies in the Balkans (plus Hungary).

    ::::::::::::

    So overall picture is negative for Ukraine, but the West is not much different from central/eastern Europe (and unlike them, doesn’t have migrants or gypsies to deal with), better than southern Europe, and its position within Ukraine improves relative to the East.

    *This may result in an underestimate. What time of year are most kids born? It may be in spring or summer.

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  41. songbird says:

    I think this underscores the importance of trying to put HBD into pop culture. The novelty of it would be part of the attraction. Distribution might be a bit difficult, but even if it were banned in some countries, file sharing could be a way around that. It’d probably have to be made at cost, or the expectation of a loss.

    If it were a compelling drama, many people would watch it, even if it did not have a regular platform.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    I think this underscores the importance of trying to put HBD into pop culture.
     
    Good luck putting an absurd pseudoscience into pop culture. And good luck explaining why the proponents of HBD tend to be much dumber than the people they are trying to disparage.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I think that the Kingdom Come: Deliverance model is probably the most viable one at the moment; basically make somewhere where it can't be shut out immediately and use the Streisand Effect to your advantage.

    Perhaps unsurprisingly, I write a lot and have written pro-reactionary material. The dangers these day come from what I call "volunteer commissars": the vast number of people dedicated to call-out culture who will search everything for wrongthink, and then try to destroy you in order to gain social credit to themselves.

    It certainly makes me miss the days of Voltaire where someone could be a wrongthinker in peace.
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  42. Dmitry says:
    @Toronto Russian

    Another interesting data point is South Korea. The first major nation to drop under 1.o TFR – something is deeply wrong in the SK society.
     
    https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-day-like-for-a-Japanese-or-Korean-high-school-student

    https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-working-culture-like-in-Korea

    Would you bring a living being into the world for such hellish existence?

    At least in the first link (which is also about Japan) – are you sure ? At least from watching videos, school looks pretty nice in Japan, and some of their schools they grow the food for lunch.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Toronto Russian

    At least in the first link (which is also about Japan) – are you sure ? At least from watching videos, school looks pretty nice in Japan, and some of their schools they grow the food for lunch.
     
    I only saw the two replies from a Korean guy and a teacher in Korea, not from Japanese. I'm not well informed about their schools today. In the economic boom era, they had mad exam cramming since kindergarten, as written in this 1980s book. By now - probably got more chill. Food is of course extremely important in the life of Japanese people at any time.

    Зубрежка продолжается после школьных и домашних занятий в так называемых "дзюку", то есть на платных курсах. Каждый вечер до полуночи, иногда и в воскресенье школьники учат, не учатся, а именно учат, исторические факты — все подряд по хронологической таблице, английские слова — по словарю, страница за страницей, названия станций на главных железнодорожных магистралях — по расписанию поездов, маршрут за маршрутом. "Будешь спать четыре часа — в университет попадешь, будешь спать пять часов — провалишься", — бытует в Японии поговорка. 
    http://flibusta.is/b/215916/read#t9
     
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  43. Okechukwu says:
    @songbird
    If Heidi Stensmyren ever needs an operation, I think it would be best for Sweden if she showed that she was not racist by being operated on by a Somali doctor.

    If Heidi Stensmyren ever needs an operation, I think it would be best for Sweden if she showed that she was not racist by being operated on by a Somali doctor.

    Sure. Most people with a brain will take a competent Somali doctor over a stupid and incompetent white doctor.

    Read More
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  44. @Felix Keverich
    Completely off-topic, but check out this chart:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd3otnuV4AAO3iG.jpg

    The Ukraine is dying out! First 3 months of 2018 - only 85.000 babies; 21,6% of Russia's level. And fertility rate at 1,31 is probably the lowest in Europe at this point.

    That is assuming Ukrainian statistics is telling us truth, and there is still 42 million people in the Ukraine. I suspect the actual number is closer to 32 million. For example, if we apply Russian fertility patterns to the Ukraine, it would produce an estimate of:

    147*0,216=31,75 million.

    Another interesting data point is South Korea. The first major nation to drop under 1.o TFR - something is deeply wrong in the SK society.

    Korea somehow managed to acquire all of the negative aspects of Japanese work culture, without any of the positives while being simultaneously pummeled with liberal values thanks to their American masters.

    Its fun.

    Read More
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  45. Okechukwu says:

    So Sweden doesn’t want Somalis unfairly maligned based on the fraudulent “research” of Richard Lynn and the handful of other racist quacks. Well done, Sweden.

    People with the IQ’s attributed to Africans by these pseudoscientic charlatans wouldn’t even be able to operate an automobile or brush their own teeth. But Africans function normally, command multiple languages fluently and excel in any endeavor no matter how intellectually rigorous. Yet we’re expected to believe that they have retardation level IQ’s.

    It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the African IQ data is simply fabricated for political and ideological purposes. Then again, the clowns that traffic in this race realism/HBD junk tend to be profoundly stupid. And therein lies the great irony.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    But Africans function normally, command multiple languages fluently and excel in any endeavor no matter how intellectually rigorous
     
    Apart from Ayan Hirsi Ali and that Mo Farah bloke (who can run fast, big intellectual achievement), the only newsstories about Somalis I can recall concern things like gang rape or other horrible crimes, piracy and the fact that Somalia is one of the most failed countries on earth. How do these people excel in anything, except crime and welfare dependency in the Western countries stupid enough to let them in?
    , @reiner Tor

    People with the IQ’s attributed to Africans by these pseudoscientic charlatans wouldn’t even be able to operate an automobile or brush their own teeth.
     
    Not so. A 70 IQ person (on the "Greenwich IQ" scale of white Britons) is roughly as smart as a 12-year-old English child. 12-year-olds are perfectly capable of operating automobiles.
    , @Silva
    Dude, you seem to be from a smarter African minority that got slaughtered trying to free itself from the dumber (and Muslim) Africans - are you sure you want to defend the (inbred, Muslim) Somalis?
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  46. Okechukwu says:
    @songbird
    I think this underscores the importance of trying to put HBD into pop culture. The novelty of it would be part of the attraction. Distribution might be a bit difficult, but even if it were banned in some countries, file sharing could be a way around that. It'd probably have to be made at cost, or the expectation of a loss.

    If it were a compelling drama, many people would watch it, even if it did not have a regular platform.

    I think this underscores the importance of trying to put HBD into pop culture.

    Good luck putting an absurd pseudoscience into pop culture. And good luck explaining why the proponents of HBD tend to be much dumber than the people they are trying to disparage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    It is funny how all the Nigerians I've known have held a powerful grudge against the British for drawing up the borders of Nigeria, so that it includes diverse peoples. Oddly, they see that diversity as a weakness, even as they are stalwart proponents of diversity in the West and in Europe.

    Please, tell us Okechukwu, how can that be? How to you rationalize that contradiction?
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  47. songbird says:
    @Okechukwu

    I think this underscores the importance of trying to put HBD into pop culture.
     
    Good luck putting an absurd pseudoscience into pop culture. And good luck explaining why the proponents of HBD tend to be much dumber than the people they are trying to disparage.

    It is funny how all the Nigerians I’ve known have held a powerful grudge against the British for drawing up the borders of Nigeria, so that it includes diverse peoples. Oddly, they see that diversity as a weakness, even as they are stalwart proponents of diversity in the West and in Europe.

    Please, tell us Okechukwu, how can that be? How to you rationalize that contradiction?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    It is funny how all the Nigerians I’ve known have held a powerful grudge against the British for drawing up the borders of Nigeria, so that it includes diverse peoples. Oddly, they see that diversity as a weakness, even as they are stalwart proponents of diversity in the West and in Europe.
     
    They tend to rue inorganic and arbitrary borders, not diversity per se. Southeast Nigeria is/was very ethnically, linguistically and culturally diverse. The Biafrans weren't just Igbos. The British weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer and they caused alot of havoc around the world with their arrogance and stupidity. More research and thoughtfulness in drawing borders would've gone a long way.

    Please, tell us Okechukwu, how can that be? How to you rationalize that contradiction?
     
    How do you rationalize the constant redrawing of borders in Europe and the attendant forced relocations and population transfers based on ethnicity? How does that not discombobulate the white nationalist mythos of a universal white race with shared values and ideals?
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  48. @songbird
    I think this underscores the importance of trying to put HBD into pop culture. The novelty of it would be part of the attraction. Distribution might be a bit difficult, but even if it were banned in some countries, file sharing could be a way around that. It'd probably have to be made at cost, or the expectation of a loss.

    If it were a compelling drama, many people would watch it, even if it did not have a regular platform.

    I think that the Kingdom Come: Deliverance model is probably the most viable one at the moment; basically make somewhere where it can’t be shut out immediately and use the Streisand Effect to your advantage.

    Perhaps unsurprisingly, I write a lot and have written pro-reactionary material. The dangers these day come from what I call “volunteer commissars”: the vast number of people dedicated to call-out culture who will search everything for wrongthink, and then try to destroy you in order to gain social credit to themselves.

    It certainly makes me miss the days of Voltaire where someone could be a wrongthinker in peace.

    Read More
    • Agree: songbird
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  49. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Sweden never disappoints.

    Sweden never disappoints.

    And neither do you, Uncle Wong.

    Gee, what do we have here? It appears thousands of Chinese students are expelled and deported every year for cheating, low grades and general academic incompetence.

    U.S. COLLEGES EXPELLED AS MANY AS 8,000 CHINESE STUDENTS IN 3 YEARS

    http://www.newsweek.com/us-colleges-expelled-many-8000-chinese-students-3-years-337445

    Great work, ICE. Ship them out before they murder Americans while trying to practice medicine.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    A small percentage compared to the number of black murders at the hand of other blacks.

    I know you think that your usual tactics of aggression are cute, but attempting to provoke me doesn't work. World trends are pretty obvious. Not much else to elaborate beyond that, but fortunately, you get to live to see it.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2018/04/06/105114303-GettyImages-144865686.jpg

    The banners in this African factory are quite nice as well.
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  50. @Okechukwu

    Sweden never disappoints.
     
    And neither do you, Uncle Wong.

    Gee, what do we have here? It appears thousands of Chinese students are expelled and deported every year for cheating, low grades and general academic incompetence.

    U.S. COLLEGES EXPELLED AS MANY AS 8,000 CHINESE STUDENTS IN 3 YEARS

    http://www.newsweek.com/us-colleges-expelled-many-8000-chinese-students-3-years-337445

    Great work, ICE. Ship them out before they murder Americans while trying to practice medicine.

    A small percentage compared to the number of black murders at the hand of other blacks.

    I know you think that your usual tactics of aggression are cute, but attempting to provoke me doesn’t work. World trends are pretty obvious. Not much else to elaborate beyond that, but fortunately, you get to live to see it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    Very cute, Uncle Wong. I had one of your countrymen as my aunt's primary doctor. The dude was a nightmare. He couldn't speak English so we weren't able to communicate with him. He had horrendous hygiene practices, did not follow proper protocols like wearing fresh rubber gloves with each patient or sanitizing his stethoscope after each use. What's more, he had food stains all over his shirt -- all verboten in an environment already teeming with germs and bacteria. Lastly, when I was in the bathroom with this joker he came out of the stall after taking a dump and walked straight out. He didn't even make a pretense of washing his hands. Needless to say, we had a real doctor assigned to our aunt.
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  51. @Okechukwu

    Sweden never disappoints.
     
    And neither do you, Uncle Wong.

    Gee, what do we have here? It appears thousands of Chinese students are expelled and deported every year for cheating, low grades and general academic incompetence.

    U.S. COLLEGES EXPELLED AS MANY AS 8,000 CHINESE STUDENTS IN 3 YEARS

    http://www.newsweek.com/us-colleges-expelled-many-8000-chinese-students-3-years-337445

    Great work, ICE. Ship them out before they murder Americans while trying to practice medicine.

    The banners in this African factory are quite nice as well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Nice African tribal writing!
    , @Dmitry
    Although to be fair to our new interlocutor - the slogans on those Chinese banners are in opposite of the tragic Chinese historical and still to an extent present reality.

    I can imagine the skepticism of the Africans.

    ('Harmonious living' from the country still recovering from the most devastating civil wars in human history).

    This is a bit like some Russian marketing itself in the West, as a land of conservative family values (the country outside Africa with the highest abortion rates, HIV rates, etc).

    Often what we value is the opposite of what we have, which I say in a sadly way, and hoping China's future will match the beautiful slogans.

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  52. @Daniel Chieh
    https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2018/04/06/105114303-GettyImages-144865686.jpg

    The banners in this African factory are quite nice as well.

    Nice African tribal writing!

    Read More
    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Reiner tor this is Amharic. It's cool looking alphabet for me.
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  53. @Okechukwu
    So Sweden doesn’t want Somalis unfairly maligned based on the fraudulent “research” of Richard Lynn and the handful of other racist quacks. Well done, Sweden.

    People with the IQ’s attributed to Africans by these pseudoscientic charlatans wouldn’t even be able to operate an automobile or brush their own teeth. But Africans function normally, command multiple languages fluently and excel in any endeavor no matter how intellectually rigorous. Yet we’re expected to believe that they have retardation level IQ’s.

    It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the African IQ data is simply fabricated for political and ideological purposes. Then again, the clowns that traffic in this race realism/HBD junk tend to be profoundly stupid. And therein lies the great irony.

    But Africans function normally, command multiple languages fluently and excel in any endeavor no matter how intellectually rigorous

    Apart from Ayan Hirsi Ali and that Mo Farah bloke (who can run fast, big intellectual achievement), the only newsstories about Somalis I can recall concern things like gang rape or other horrible crimes, piracy and the fact that Somalia is one of the most failed countries on earth. How do these people excel in anything, except crime and welfare dependency in the Western countries stupid enough to let them in?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    gang rape or other horrible crimes, piracy
     
    Yes, but they excel at these difficult tasks.
    , @songbird
    And Ayan Hirsi Ali lied to gain asylum.
    , @Dmitry
    To be fair, they did a pretty a good job on the 'Cyborgs' of Donetsk airport.

    http://donbass.name/uploads/posts/2015-12/1450904347_naklejka-1-ya-otdelnaya-batalonno-takticheskaya-gruppa-somali-1.350x259.jpg
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  54. @Okechukwu
    So Sweden doesn’t want Somalis unfairly maligned based on the fraudulent “research” of Richard Lynn and the handful of other racist quacks. Well done, Sweden.

    People with the IQ’s attributed to Africans by these pseudoscientic charlatans wouldn’t even be able to operate an automobile or brush their own teeth. But Africans function normally, command multiple languages fluently and excel in any endeavor no matter how intellectually rigorous. Yet we’re expected to believe that they have retardation level IQ’s.

    It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the African IQ data is simply fabricated for political and ideological purposes. Then again, the clowns that traffic in this race realism/HBD junk tend to be profoundly stupid. And therein lies the great irony.

    People with the IQ’s attributed to Africans by these pseudoscientic charlatans wouldn’t even be able to operate an automobile or brush their own teeth.

    Not so. A 70 IQ person (on the “Greenwich IQ” scale of white Britons) is roughly as smart as a 12-year-old English child. 12-year-olds are perfectly capable of operating automobiles.

    Read More
    • Troll: Okechukwu
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  55. Okechukwu says:
    @songbird
    It is funny how all the Nigerians I've known have held a powerful grudge against the British for drawing up the borders of Nigeria, so that it includes diverse peoples. Oddly, they see that diversity as a weakness, even as they are stalwart proponents of diversity in the West and in Europe.

    Please, tell us Okechukwu, how can that be? How to you rationalize that contradiction?

    It is funny how all the Nigerians I’ve known have held a powerful grudge against the British for drawing up the borders of Nigeria, so that it includes diverse peoples. Oddly, they see that diversity as a weakness, even as they are stalwart proponents of diversity in the West and in Europe.

    They tend to rue inorganic and arbitrary borders, not diversity per se. Southeast Nigeria is/was very ethnically, linguistically and culturally diverse. The Biafrans weren’t just Igbos. The British weren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer and they caused alot of havoc around the world with their arrogance and stupidity. More research and thoughtfulness in drawing borders would’ve gone a long way.

    Please, tell us Okechukwu, how can that be? How to you rationalize that contradiction?

    How do you rationalize the constant redrawing of borders in Europe and the attendant forced relocations and population transfers based on ethnicity? How does that not discombobulate the white nationalist mythos of a universal white race with shared values and ideals?

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH

    The British weren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer and they caused alot of havoc around the world with their arrogance and stupidity.
     
    Or maybe they just didn't care very much (although they should have cared less) about Africans
    , @songbird
    I've heard some Africans talk wistfully of old kingdoms, though I have never seen a castle, and can't comprehend the romanticism. I rather doubt that their borders did not impinge on each other with the years and conquests. All in all, Africa seems like a pretty mixed up place. I fully support them breaking up and make smaller countries, if that is their desire, but I doubt whether it would please all, particularly the newly landlocked ones.

    I suppose the British must have thought that they would learn to get along eventually, like most Europeans do. (probably not a good idea to mix Muslims and Christians though) The proof that Europeans have learned to get along is in the way that many countries have dialects which are so different that the are basically incomprehensible. Yet, I have never heard of the Swabians attacking their fellow Germans with machetes. I suppose they did fight at one time, but the idea of tribes is pretty foreign to Europeans now. The last place they existed was Montenegro, and that was about a hundred years ago or so. In other places, they exist only in ancient history. That is probably what makes Africa so interesting to white liberals - tribes evoke the idea of the noble savage.

    What I can't understand is, if Africa is such a happening place - so vibrant and so economically dynamic, why do Africans want to leave in such great numbers? Wouldn't it be a better investment to stay? Why on earth would Nigerians and Somalis want to go to place with such cold and dark winters as Sweden? Are they aficionados of winter sports? And, if so, why do some want to go to the Maghreb? And others even to Yemen?
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  56. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    A small percentage compared to the number of black murders at the hand of other blacks.

    I know you think that your usual tactics of aggression are cute, but attempting to provoke me doesn't work. World trends are pretty obvious. Not much else to elaborate beyond that, but fortunately, you get to live to see it.

    Very cute, Uncle Wong. I had one of your countrymen as my aunt’s primary doctor. The dude was a nightmare. He couldn’t speak English so we weren’t able to communicate with him. He had horrendous hygiene practices, did not follow proper protocols like wearing fresh rubber gloves with each patient or sanitizing his stethoscope after each use. What’s more, he had food stains all over his shirt — all verboten in an environment already teeming with germs and bacteria. Lastly, when I was in the bathroom with this joker he came out of the stall after taking a dump and walked straight out. He didn’t even make a pretense of washing his hands. Needless to say, we had a real doctor assigned to our aunt.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    And somehow, you're still losing to them.
    , @TelfoedJohn
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9771022/Revealed-3-in-4-of-Britains-danger-doctors-are-trained-abroad.html

    Mexico, Cuba, France, Uganda, Cameroon, Nigeria docs seem particularly bad.

    The country with the best record is Hong Kong. Despite having an average of 773 doctors working in the UK since 2008, none have been struck off or disciplined by the GMC.
     
    This, er, German fellow does badly: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2541612/German-doctor-killed-British-patient-drug-overdose-sues-dead-mans-sons-miss-dinner.html
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  57. @Okechukwu
    Very cute, Uncle Wong. I had one of your countrymen as my aunt's primary doctor. The dude was a nightmare. He couldn't speak English so we weren't able to communicate with him. He had horrendous hygiene practices, did not follow proper protocols like wearing fresh rubber gloves with each patient or sanitizing his stethoscope after each use. What's more, he had food stains all over his shirt -- all verboten in an environment already teeming with germs and bacteria. Lastly, when I was in the bathroom with this joker he came out of the stall after taking a dump and walked straight out. He didn't even make a pretense of washing his hands. Needless to say, we had a real doctor assigned to our aunt.

    And somehow, you’re still losing to them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    Actually, hundreds of millions of Africans are wealthier and live better than hundreds of millions of Chinese. The African middle class is larger, as a percentage of the population, than China's.

    Oh, and lookee here:

    [b]Africa's 'lion economies' growth exceeds forecasts[/b]

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/africas-lion-economies-growth-exceeds-forecasts-180222112354500.html

    Sorry, Wong.

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  58. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    And somehow, you're still losing to them.

    Actually, hundreds of millions of Africans are wealthier and live better than hundreds of millions of Chinese. The African middle class is larger, as a percentage of the population, than China’s.

    Oh, and lookee here:

    [b]Africa’s ‘lion economies’ growth exceeds forecasts[/b]

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/africas-lion-economies-growth-exceeds-forecasts-180222112354500.html

    Sorry, Wong.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    https://i.imgur.com/8Zq7Cov.png

    I'm sure, though, that chewing the khat gives you a lot of interesting "facts." Toodles, moron.

    , @Thorfinnsson
    we wuz tiger economiez n sheet
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Nature Index of elite scientific research production:

    China - 7,500 (half the US level)

    Black Africa - Adds up to no more than 100 (of which 70 in South Africa, i.e. predominantly produced by their 5 million remaining Whites). Nigeria: 0.68.
    , @Anonymous

    Actually, hundreds of millions of Africans are wealthier and live better than hundreds of millions of Chinese.
     
    This is unlikely. The 1 billion people of sub-Sahara Africa are very poor. Sub-Sahara Africa minus South Africa has a GDP per capita of around US$1,200. China in contrast has a GDP per capita of about US$9,000.

    Even though the urban-rural gap in China is severe due to lack of a robust welfare state in China (instead regular wage jobs are created for working age rural people who move to the cities), it is very unlikely that 200 million or the top 20% of sub-Saharan Africans (SSAs) live in conditions that exceed the quality of life of 200 million or the bottom 14% of Chinese.

    It's quite possible still that the top 100 million SSAs live better than the bottom 100 million Chinese as the Chinese in that stratum would still not be able to adequately feed their children while the relative elites of SSA are at least food secure. But this isn't exactly much to brag about. Perhaps your real point isn't boastful bravado but just to at least point out China and SSA haven't diverged so much that they are on different planets like the US would be.

    The African middle class is larger, as a percentage of the population, than China’s.
     
    There's no need to be delusional because you are embarrassed about the lack of achievements of your race.
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  59. Beckow says:
    @Pericles

    A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants, is worried about being invaded by – who else – The Russians. I am not so sure about the generic Swedish IQ, never mind the Somalis.

     

    Well, Russia is one of our historic enemies after all, and though we were last invaded by Russians 200+ years ago, the hysterical (((media))) do their best to liven things up. In the same vein, did you know that Russian trolls have afflicted the Swedish online debate severely and may have distorted the (((truth))) and driven certain (((debaters))) away? Fie, I say.

    The booklet is basically reheated Cold War instructions.

    You have to ask yourself why a re-heated Cold war ‘prepare for war’ booklet was released. It could be something innocent, like a few busy-body byrocrats looking for something to do. Or it is a flat-footed result of some meeting with the ‘Atlantic’ alliance that some Swedish byrocrats took too seriously. It could scare the migrants and we wouldn’t want that, would we?

    last invaded by Russians 200+ years ago

    I hate to be picky, here, but when and by whom? It could be that if you include wars over Ingria and Finland in 18th century, you could say there was an ‘invasion’. I am not sure I would. My point is that there has never been a single Russian soldier on Swedish soil in 1,000 years, Sweden as is it is today. No invasion, nada, zilch. Why would they start now? Maybe craving that Somali take-out food?

    The Arlanda broke 1-2 stations after the airport, there was nothing there. I nice Swedish girl guided me through it, she was on her way to work in some suburb and told me that it takes her 1 1/2 hour each day to get to work. But housing is so scarce and expensive that she can only afford to live by the airport. But she – and the rest of the Swedes – were amazingly passive and fatalistic about it all. I admire that, but it won’t work in the long run.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    wars over Ingria and Finland in 18th century
     
    Finland was invaded by Russia in 1808, that's 19th century. Swedes consider it a Russian invasion of their soil, since Finland was then part of the Kingdom of Sweden, no?
    , @melanf

    My point is that there has never been a single Russian soldier on Swedish soil in 1,000 years
     
    Well, that's not technically true. The great Northern War was finished thanks to Russian sea landing on the coast of Sweden.
    http://licei113.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Действия-русского-флота-в-Северной-войне.jpg
    http://kapellan.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/balt_flot.jpg


    The war of 1808-1809 was completed due to the fact that Russian troops crossed the Gulf of Bothnia on ice and invaded Sweden
    https://www.runivers.org/upload/iblock/3bf/rus-shved_voiyny_471.jpg
    http://magspace.ru/uploads/2015/11/13/21-380c377767a834.jpg
    , @Pericles
    In the war over Finland 1808-1809, Russian armies also entered Sweden as such in 1809 and briefly occupied Umeå, Kalix, Skellefteå, Piteå in northern Sweden. Apparently the Russians at one point even sent cavalry towards Stockholm over the frozen Baltic, which was kind of cool, but nothing came of that.

    As you might guess, the peace negotiations were painful and we ended up losing Finland.
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  60. Beckow says:
    @Anonymous

    A country going to pits internally, with more than a million new migrants
     
    In the last 20 years in Sweden I don't think there have been anywhere near one million non-European and Muslim European migrants.

    anywhere near one million non-European and Muslim European migrants

    Official statistic from 2017 says that 31% of 10 million Swedes are migrants or their children. Sure, there are lost of Swedes, Poles, etc… but I think it would be reasonable to assume that at least a third of the migrants are Third World – and that gives your over 1 million. Walking around Stockholm I would guess a lot more.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    "Immigrant origin" includes also people with only one immigrant parent.

    The situation is not good, but even today the second largest immigrant group is still Finns.

    In 1990 it was Finns, Norwegians, and then Danes. So many adults today of immigrant origin are in fact Nordic.

    There's another, less remarked upon, problem. The level of emigration has doubled compared to what it was in the postwar period.

    In absolute numbers it's now comparable again to the 19th century. However it's not clear to me what makes up this emigration and in what proportions.

    Swedes temporarily studying or working in other EU countries?

    "New Swedes" returning home?

    Permanent emigration as in the 19th century?
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  61. @Felix Keverich
    Completely off-topic, but check out this chart:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd3otnuV4AAO3iG.jpg

    The Ukraine is dying out! First 3 months of 2018 - only 85.000 babies; 21,6% of Russia's level. And fertility rate at 1,31 is probably the lowest in Europe at this point.

    That is assuming Ukrainian statistics is telling us truth, and there is still 42 million people in the Ukraine. I suspect the actual number is closer to 32 million. For example, if we apply Russian fertility patterns to the Ukraine, it would produce an estimate of:

    147*0,216=31,75 million.

    Another interesting data point is South Korea. The first major nation to drop under 1.o TFR - something is deeply wrong in the SK society.

    Japan’s figures are actually not that bad. Consider:

    • The country is in East Asia
    • The country has very few immigrants or people of immigrant origin (note: South Korea now has quite a lot)
    • The country has been prosperous for a long time
    • The country in this century has gone from Italian levels of female workforce participation to above American levels

    Japan might even have a higher TFR than some white nations once you strip out the TFR of the invaders. Note that it’s comparable to Finland (few invaders until quite recently) and Scotland (98% white)

    Obviously TFR of 1.43 and Japan is making a number of wrong moves, but this speaks to some sort of resilience in Japan which doesn’t exist elsewhere among confucian orientals.

    As for what’s wrong with South Korea, perhaps one of our oriental commenters can answer. From the outside two things stand out:

    • The plastic surgery obsession
    • The decision to embrace multiculturalism and immigration (Global Korea, dropping the pledge to the Han race)

    South Korea’s conscription might unintentionally contribute. It gives women a head start in the workforce, thereby inflating their earning power over men of the same age cohort. As women want to marry up and orientals are famously materialistic, this could have a materially negative impact on family formation.

    I suggest comparative demography between conscription countries to volunteer countries as a research topic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Best Korea has the most hardcore conscription, and Cicerone recently pointed out that this year they might have more births than South Korea for probably the first time ever. This is amazing, given their populations (23 million vs. 52 million, as I recall).

    Israel has the world's second most hardcore conscription. Highest TFR of any developed nation, with 8 million people, will have 75% of the number of births of 40 million Poland.

    Many of the Scandinavian countries and Russia retain conscription, have (relatively) okay TFRs. Ofc Russia's were catastrophic in the 1990s-early 2000s, but there were other factors at play. The USSR and the commie bloc in general, all with conscription systems, had good TFRs that did not collapse in the 1970s like in Western Europe.

    What's wrong with South Korea? My guesses:

    1. Reaching the nadir of their demographic transition, as happened in e.g. USA/Europe during the 1970s-80s;

    2. Feminism, faggotry etc. promoted by American influence;

    3. Extreme overwork (2500 hours per year);

    4. Low female participation in workforce indicating that combining family with career in impractical (realistically speaking, you have to do that, unless you go hardcore whi- yellow sharia mode);

    5. Wages are not particularly high - similar to Greece/Portugal, as I recall, despite the ridiculous overwork and obviously much more hi-tech nature of the Korean economy.
    , @Anonymous
    South Korea has a lot of Chinese migrants of Korean background. The East Asian country that is swamped by forced multiculturalism is Hong Kong. 20,000 asylum seekers and counting. Imposed on it by its common law courts.
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  62. DFH says:
    @Okechukwu

    It is funny how all the Nigerians I’ve known have held a powerful grudge against the British for drawing up the borders of Nigeria, so that it includes diverse peoples. Oddly, they see that diversity as a weakness, even as they are stalwart proponents of diversity in the West and in Europe.
     
    They tend to rue inorganic and arbitrary borders, not diversity per se. Southeast Nigeria is/was very ethnically, linguistically and culturally diverse. The Biafrans weren't just Igbos. The British weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer and they caused alot of havoc around the world with their arrogance and stupidity. More research and thoughtfulness in drawing borders would've gone a long way.

    Please, tell us Okechukwu, how can that be? How to you rationalize that contradiction?
     
    How do you rationalize the constant redrawing of borders in Europe and the attendant forced relocations and population transfers based on ethnicity? How does that not discombobulate the white nationalist mythos of a universal white race with shared values and ideals?

    The British weren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer and they caused alot of havoc around the world with their arrogance and stupidity.

    Or maybe they just didn’t care very much (although they should have cared less) about Africans

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  63. DFH says:

    I thought the Chinese, the Jew and the Paki were obnoxious enough, please tell me that the African isn’t going to be a permanent addition to AK’s vibrant comment section

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    No one ever expects the diversity inquisition!
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  64. @Okechukwu
    Actually, hundreds of millions of Africans are wealthier and live better than hundreds of millions of Chinese. The African middle class is larger, as a percentage of the population, than China's.

    Oh, and lookee here:

    [b]Africa's 'lion economies' growth exceeds forecasts[/b]

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/africas-lion-economies-growth-exceeds-forecasts-180222112354500.html

    Sorry, Wong.


    I’m sure, though, that chewing the khat gives you a lot of interesting “facts.” Toodles, moron.

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    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    Good going, Uncle Wong. Picking Somalia is like picking the poorest region in China to represent China.

    I never said Africa was developed or advanced. That being said, you have no idea where they will be in 30-50 years. Chinese were eating rats a couple of generations ago. It was so bad that they packed themselves like sardines into shipping containers to try to escape to America.

    Tone down your unwarranted Chinese supremacism. China is a cesspit in more ways than one. And they can't seem to figure out how to do anything on their own, but rather copy and steal and cheat.
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  65. @Beckow

    anywhere near one million non-European and Muslim European migrants
     
    Official statistic from 2017 says that 31% of 10 million Swedes are migrants or their children. Sure, there are lost of Swedes, Poles, etc... but I think it would be reasonable to assume that at least a third of the migrants are Third World - and that gives your over 1 million. Walking around Stockholm I would guess a lot more.

    “Immigrant origin” includes also people with only one immigrant parent.

    The situation is not good, but even today the second largest immigrant group is still Finns.

    In 1990 it was Finns, Norwegians, and then Danes. So many adults today of immigrant origin are in fact Nordic.

    There’s another, less remarked upon, problem. The level of emigration has doubled compared to what it was in the postwar period.

    In absolute numbers it’s now comparable again to the 19th century. However it’s not clear to me what makes up this emigration and in what proportions.

    Swedes temporarily studying or working in other EU countries?

    “New Swedes” returning home?

    Permanent emigration as in the 19th century?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Very important question - in Britain, its mostly whites leaving for Australia, Canada, and the US, making the population replacement crisis at least 50% greater than what the mere immigration figures would indicate.
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  66. @Okechukwu
    Actually, hundreds of millions of Africans are wealthier and live better than hundreds of millions of Chinese. The African middle class is larger, as a percentage of the population, than China's.

    Oh, and lookee here:

    [b]Africa's 'lion economies' growth exceeds forecasts[/b]

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/africas-lion-economies-growth-exceeds-forecasts-180222112354500.html

    Sorry, Wong.

    we wuz tiger economiez n sheet

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  67. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2018/04/06/105114303-GettyImages-144865686.jpg

    The banners in this African factory are quite nice as well.

    Although to be fair to our new interlocutor – the slogans on those Chinese banners are in opposite of the tragic Chinese historical and still to an extent present reality.

    I can imagine the skepticism of the Africans.

    (‘Harmonious living’ from the country still recovering from the most devastating civil wars in human history).

    This is a bit like some Russian marketing itself in the West, as a land of conservative family values (the country outside Africa with the highest abortion rates, HIV rates, etc).

    Often what we value is the opposite of what we have, which I say in a sadly way, and hoping China’s future will match the beautiful slogans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    (‘Harmonious living’ from the country still recovering from the most devastating civil wars in human history).
     
    Yep. Harmonious living? China is a cauldron of civil strife:

    Wukan's movement in December was not as unusual as it might have seemed. China saw 180,000 protests, riots, and mass demonstrations in 2010 alone -- on average about 500 every day -- a number that has likely since increased. The villagers' complaints were common ones: local officials exploiting land sales for personal gain and violently repressing dissent (a village advocate had died while in police custody).

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/01/how-china-stays-stable-despite-500-protests-every-day/250940/
    , @Daniel Chieh
    You're missing the most important part of the reasoning for the banner and the image: trolling.
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  68. @Beckow
    You have to ask yourself why a re-heated Cold war 'prepare for war' booklet was released. It could be something innocent, like a few busy-body byrocrats looking for something to do. Or it is a flat-footed result of some meeting with the 'Atlantic' alliance that some Swedish byrocrats took too seriously. It could scare the migrants and we wouldn't want that, would we?

    last invaded by Russians 200+ years ago
     
    I hate to be picky, here, but when and by whom? It could be that if you include wars over Ingria and Finland in 18th century, you could say there was an 'invasion'. I am not sure I would. My point is that there has never been a single Russian soldier on Swedish soil in 1,000 years, Sweden as is it is today. No invasion, nada, zilch. Why would they start now? Maybe craving that Somali take-out food?

    The Arlanda broke 1-2 stations after the airport, there was nothing there. I nice Swedish girl guided me through it, she was on her way to work in some suburb and told me that it takes her 1 1/2 hour each day to get to work. But housing is so scarce and expensive that she can only afford to live by the airport. But she - and the rest of the Swedes - were amazingly passive and fatalistic about it all. I admire that, but it won't work in the long run.

    wars over Ingria and Finland in 18th century

    Finland was invaded by Russia in 1808, that’s 19th century. Swedes consider it a Russian invasion of their soil, since Finland was then part of the Kingdom of Sweden, no?

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  69. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    https://i.imgur.com/8Zq7Cov.png

    I'm sure, though, that chewing the khat gives you a lot of interesting "facts." Toodles, moron.

    Good going, Uncle Wong. Picking Somalia is like picking the poorest region in China to represent China.

    I never said Africa was developed or advanced. That being said, you have no idea where they will be in 30-50 years. Chinese were eating rats a couple of generations ago. It was so bad that they packed themselves like sardines into shipping containers to try to escape to America.

    Tone down your unwarranted Chinese supremacism. China is a cesspit in more ways than one. And they can’t seem to figure out how to do anything on their own, but rather copy and steal and cheat.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Picking Somalia is like picking the poorest region in China to represent China.
     
    Would probably actually be Congo or Niger or Liberia.

    Apart from the chronic anarchism, Somalia doesn't seem to be the worst. Eastern Africans in general seem to be doing better than Western Africans.

    Still, I'd certainly pick Gansu or Hebei or whatever the poorest Chinese province is, to Congo or Somalia or even Ethiopia (and I'm relatively upbeat on Ethiopia).
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  70. @Okechukwu
    Actually, hundreds of millions of Africans are wealthier and live better than hundreds of millions of Chinese. The African middle class is larger, as a percentage of the population, than China's.

    Oh, and lookee here:

    [b]Africa's 'lion economies' growth exceeds forecasts[/b]

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/africas-lion-economies-growth-exceeds-forecasts-180222112354500.html

    Sorry, Wong.

    Nature Index of elite scientific research production:

    China – 7,500 (half the US level)

    Black Africa – Adds up to no more than 100 (of which 70 in South Africa, i.e. predominantly produced by their 5 million remaining Whites). Nigeria: 0.68.

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  71. songbird says:
    @Okechukwu

    It is funny how all the Nigerians I’ve known have held a powerful grudge against the British for drawing up the borders of Nigeria, so that it includes diverse peoples. Oddly, they see that diversity as a weakness, even as they are stalwart proponents of diversity in the West and in Europe.
     
    They tend to rue inorganic and arbitrary borders, not diversity per se. Southeast Nigeria is/was very ethnically, linguistically and culturally diverse. The Biafrans weren't just Igbos. The British weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer and they caused alot of havoc around the world with their arrogance and stupidity. More research and thoughtfulness in drawing borders would've gone a long way.

    Please, tell us Okechukwu, how can that be? How to you rationalize that contradiction?
     
    How do you rationalize the constant redrawing of borders in Europe and the attendant forced relocations and population transfers based on ethnicity? How does that not discombobulate the white nationalist mythos of a universal white race with shared values and ideals?

    I’ve heard some Africans talk wistfully of old kingdoms, though I have never seen a castle, and can’t comprehend the romanticism. I rather doubt that their borders did not impinge on each other with the years and conquests. All in all, Africa seems like a pretty mixed up place. I fully support them breaking up and make smaller countries, if that is their desire, but I doubt whether it would please all, particularly the newly landlocked ones.

    I suppose the British must have thought that they would learn to get along eventually, like most Europeans do. (probably not a good idea to mix Muslims and Christians though) The proof that Europeans have learned to get along is in the way that many countries have dialects which are so different that the are basically incomprehensible. Yet, I have never heard of the Swabians attacking their fellow Germans with machetes. I suppose they did fight at one time, but the idea of tribes is pretty foreign to Europeans now. The last place they existed was Montenegro, and that was about a hundred years ago or so. In other places, they exist only in ancient history. That is probably what makes Africa so interesting to white liberals – tribes evoke the idea of the noble savage.

    What I can’t understand is, if Africa is such a happening place – so vibrant and so economically dynamic, why do Africans want to leave in such great numbers? Wouldn’t it be a better investment to stay? Why on earth would Nigerians and Somalis want to go to place with such cold and dark winters as Sweden? Are they aficionados of winter sports? And, if so, why do some want to go to the Maghreb? And others even to Yemen?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    I’ve heard some Africans talk wistfully of old kingdoms, though I have never seen a castle, and can’t comprehend the romanticism.
     
    You do realize that Egyptians and Nubians had advanced architecture that still stands while Europeans were living in mud huts, right?

    The proof that Europeans have learned to get along is in the way that many countries have dialects which are so different that the are basically incomprehensible.
     
    That must be why they have WMD pointing at each other and why they need American forces there to make sure they don't revert back to their traditional barbarity.

    I have never heard of the Swabians attacking their fellow Germans with machetes. I suppose they did fight at one time, but the idea of tribes is pretty foreign to Europeans now.
     
    The WWII era is NOW and we all know what happened then. Future historians will not quibble over a hundred years here or there. Don't we use very malleable time frames when examining antiquity?

    What I can’t understand is, if Africa is such a happening place – so vibrant and so economically dynamic, why do Africans want to leave in such great numbers?
     
    You do realize that no other people have fled their homelands more than Europeans, right? They've populated entire continents.

    Why on earth would Nigerians and Somalis want to go to place with such cold and dark winters as Sweden?
     
    I suspect it's economic. It's the same reason the Swedes emigrated on masse in the mid to late 19th century when Sweden was a basketcase. If in the future there are greater opportunities in Africa than in Sweden, the Swedes will head to Africa. It's just the way it is and it's cyclical.
    , @Silva
    Scotland has officially recognized tribes. And what taught Europeans to get along was centuries of concentric self-directed wars - I do think Africans should be allowed to have at least some decades of that, without a escape valve; it'd teach them what Europeans learned*, and disperse the units that can't possibly take care of themselves.

    *: it seems a bunch of Igbos learned "don't oppose the Hausa, they're strong; invade the West, which is weak", for example.
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  72. Okechukwu says:
    @Dmitry
    Although to be fair to our new interlocutor - the slogans on those Chinese banners are in opposite of the tragic Chinese historical and still to an extent present reality.

    I can imagine the skepticism of the Africans.

    ('Harmonious living' from the country still recovering from the most devastating civil wars in human history).

    This is a bit like some Russian marketing itself in the West, as a land of conservative family values (the country outside Africa with the highest abortion rates, HIV rates, etc).

    Often what we value is the opposite of what we have, which I say in a sadly way, and hoping China's future will match the beautiful slogans.

    (‘Harmonious living’ from the country still recovering from the most devastating civil wars in human history).

    Yep. Harmonious living? China is a cauldron of civil strife:

    Wukan’s movement in December was not as unusual as it might have seemed. China saw 180,000 protests, riots, and mass demonstrations in 2010 alone — on average about 500 every day — a number that has likely since increased. The villagers’ complaints were common ones: local officials exploiting land sales for personal gain and violently repressing dissent (a village advocate had died while in police custody).

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/01/how-china-stays-stable-despite-500-protests-every-day/250940/

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  73. @Dmitry
    Although to be fair to our new interlocutor - the slogans on those Chinese banners are in opposite of the tragic Chinese historical and still to an extent present reality.

    I can imagine the skepticism of the Africans.

    ('Harmonious living' from the country still recovering from the most devastating civil wars in human history).

    This is a bit like some Russian marketing itself in the West, as a land of conservative family values (the country outside Africa with the highest abortion rates, HIV rates, etc).

    Often what we value is the opposite of what we have, which I say in a sadly way, and hoping China's future will match the beautiful slogans.

    You’re missing the most important part of the reasoning for the banner and the image: trolling.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well I was going to say (although no expect on Chinese culture) that these seem to be wishes more relevant for China, as a result of the country's recent past being the opposite of them - and for reasons which are apparent in the Chinese tragedies of the 19th and 20th centuries.

    The factory is in Ethiopia though, and the harmonious living sign would also a kind of wishful dream for that country with its civil war and communist genocides into the 1980s (in which the Soviet Union has played a very unfortunate role in its support for Mengistu).

    I don't think China is trolling considering how much they invest in Ethiopia.

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  74. Silva says:
    @Okechukwu
    So Sweden doesn’t want Somalis unfairly maligned based on the fraudulent “research” of Richard Lynn and the handful of other racist quacks. Well done, Sweden.

    People with the IQ’s attributed to Africans by these pseudoscientic charlatans wouldn’t even be able to operate an automobile or brush their own teeth. But Africans function normally, command multiple languages fluently and excel in any endeavor no matter how intellectually rigorous. Yet we’re expected to believe that they have retardation level IQ’s.

    It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the African IQ data is simply fabricated for political and ideological purposes. Then again, the clowns that traffic in this race realism/HBD junk tend to be profoundly stupid. And therein lies the great irony.

    Dude, you seem to be from a smarter African minority that got slaughtered trying to free itself from the dumber (and Muslim) Africans – are you sure you want to defend the (inbred, Muslim) Somalis?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    I'm interested in facts and empirical science. I loathe racially motivated nonsense being promoted as facts or science.

    So the question becomes: Which Somalis were IQ tested? Who tested them? Where? When? How? Sample size, etc.? Pretend that you're in a court of law and you're out to prove that Somalis have an IQ of 70. Okay, where's your evidence?

    I understand the motivation. Some people are wracked by severe pangs of inferiority in various aspects of their lives and they find succor in looking down on others. But, ultimately, that's tantamount to trying to drown out problems with drugs or alcohol. Others think that they can restrict immigration if only they can convince everyone that potential black or brown immigrants are too stupid or too unfit for western societies. But normal society including the people in position to enact policy aren't dumb enough to believe that.

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  75. @Thorfinnsson
    Japan's figures are actually not that bad. Consider:

    • The country is in East Asia
    • The country has very few immigrants or people of immigrant origin (note: South Korea now has quite a lot)
    • The country has been prosperous for a long time
    • The country in this century has gone from Italian levels of female workforce participation to above American levels

    Japan might even have a higher TFR than some white nations once you strip out the TFR of the invaders. Note that it's comparable to Finland (few invaders until quite recently) and Scotland (98% white)

    Obviously TFR of 1.43 and Japan is making a number of wrong moves, but this speaks to some sort of resilience in Japan which doesn't exist elsewhere among confucian orientals.

    As for what's wrong with South Korea, perhaps one of our oriental commenters can answer. From the outside two things stand out:

    • The plastic surgery obsession
    • The decision to embrace multiculturalism and immigration (Global Korea, dropping the pledge to the Han race)

    South Korea's conscription might unintentionally contribute. It gives women a head start in the workforce, thereby inflating their earning power over men of the same age cohort. As women want to marry up and orientals are famously materialistic, this could have a materially negative impact on family formation.

    I suggest comparative demography between conscription countries to volunteer countries as a research topic.

    Best Korea has the most hardcore conscription, and Cicerone recently pointed out that this year they might have more births than South Korea for probably the first time ever. This is amazing, given their populations (23 million vs. 52 million, as I recall).

    Israel has the world’s second most hardcore conscription. Highest TFR of any developed nation, with 8 million people, will have 75% of the number of births of 40 million Poland.

    Many of the Scandinavian countries and Russia retain conscription, have (relatively) okay TFRs. Ofc Russia’s were catastrophic in the 1990s-early 2000s, but there were other factors at play. The USSR and the commie bloc in general, all with conscription systems, had good TFRs that did not collapse in the 1970s like in Western Europe.

    What’s wrong with South Korea? My guesses:

    1. Reaching the nadir of their demographic transition, as happened in e.g. USA/Europe during the 1970s-80s;

    2. Feminism, faggotry etc. promoted by American influence;

    3. Extreme overwork (2500 hours per year);

    4. Low female participation in workforce indicating that combining family with career in impractical (realistically speaking, you have to do that, unless you go hardcore whi- yellow sharia mode);

    5. Wages are not particularly high – similar to Greece/Portugal, as I recall, despite the ridiculous overwork and obviously much more hi-tech nature of the Korean economy.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Female participation in workforce is 70% - approximately the same as in Japan. Something which surprised me as I pulled some data is that Japan is actually at 93% urbanization as opposed to Korea's 85%, and yet it has a higher TFR. This is true even in Tokyo, so its not just distortion from their "fecund minorities" such as the Okinawans(though IIRC Okinawa still has the highest TFR in Japan).

    One thing to note though is that Japanese female participation appears to be highly part time(30-40 percent of employment) if I read the World Bank statistics correctly, whereas it is mostly full time in Korea. I'm of Jim's opinion that lower status of women encourages fertility.

    Ancedotally, I'm aware that Japanese companies generally doesn't encourage careerism in women - as usual, through a variety of subdued social rather than explicit legal methods.

    , @Thorfinnsson
    The conscription thesis requires more rigorous examination than that. North Korea is a radically different society than South Korea. One could start by comparing age cohorts in countries that abolished conscription, and see if the differences between these age cohorts were greater in magnitude than where conscription was unchanged.


    3. Extreme overwork (2500 hours per year);
     
    That's a fifty hour workweek. Not really a big deal if female labor force participation is low, unless compounded by long commutes (doubt that exists) or the culture of going out drinking with workmates.

    4. Low female participation in workforce indicating that combining family with career in impractical (realistically speaking, you have to do that, unless you go hardcore whi- yellow sharia mode);
     
    Do you? TFR was highest in the urbanized West (i.e. not considering the much higher rural fertility of the 19th century) when female workforce participation was at its nadir in the 1950s. There was no white sharia either--women mostly had equal rights and had for a long time (there was some minor stuff left like not being able to get a credit card without your husban's permission).

    It was simply expected women would stop working as soon as they could afford to.

    That said if we do go hardcore white/yellow sharia in the future, women dropping out of the workforce en masse won't actually be necessary or desirable I've realized. There just isn't that much labor required to maintain a household anymore, and that figure will keep dropping. Restoring the principle of guardianship and traditional marital property laws would be enough.


    5. Wages are not particularly high – similar to Greece/Portugal, as I recall, despite the ridiculous overwork and obviously much more hi-tech nature of the Korean economy.
     
    Apparently higher than Japan these days: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/02/14/korean-wages-are-now-higher-than-japanese-wages-perhaps-for-the-first-time-in-3000-years/#69ea068021a0

    Cost of living slightly lower: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Japan&country2=South+Korea
    , @Anonymous

    2. Feminism, faggotry etc. promoted by American influence;
     
    Never seen a clear explanation for how the prominence of gays in culture leads to fertility declines.
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  76. @Thorfinnsson
    "Immigrant origin" includes also people with only one immigrant parent.

    The situation is not good, but even today the second largest immigrant group is still Finns.

    In 1990 it was Finns, Norwegians, and then Danes. So many adults today of immigrant origin are in fact Nordic.

    There's another, less remarked upon, problem. The level of emigration has doubled compared to what it was in the postwar period.

    In absolute numbers it's now comparable again to the 19th century. However it's not clear to me what makes up this emigration and in what proportions.

    Swedes temporarily studying or working in other EU countries?

    "New Swedes" returning home?

    Permanent emigration as in the 19th century?

    Very important question – in Britain, its mostly whites leaving for Australia, Canada, and the US, making the population replacement crisis at least 50% greater than what the mere immigration figures would indicate.

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  77. melanf says:
    @Beckow
    You have to ask yourself why a re-heated Cold war 'prepare for war' booklet was released. It could be something innocent, like a few busy-body byrocrats looking for something to do. Or it is a flat-footed result of some meeting with the 'Atlantic' alliance that some Swedish byrocrats took too seriously. It could scare the migrants and we wouldn't want that, would we?

    last invaded by Russians 200+ years ago
     
    I hate to be picky, here, but when and by whom? It could be that if you include wars over Ingria and Finland in 18th century, you could say there was an 'invasion'. I am not sure I would. My point is that there has never been a single Russian soldier on Swedish soil in 1,000 years, Sweden as is it is today. No invasion, nada, zilch. Why would they start now? Maybe craving that Somali take-out food?

    The Arlanda broke 1-2 stations after the airport, there was nothing there. I nice Swedish girl guided me through it, she was on her way to work in some suburb and told me that it takes her 1 1/2 hour each day to get to work. But housing is so scarce and expensive that she can only afford to live by the airport. But she - and the rest of the Swedes - were amazingly passive and fatalistic about it all. I admire that, but it won't work in the long run.

    My point is that there has never been a single Russian soldier on Swedish soil in 1,000 years

    Well, that’s not technically true. The great Northern War was finished thanks to Russian sea landing on the coast of Sweden.

    The war of 1808-1809 was completed due to the fact that Russian troops crossed the Gulf of Bothnia on ice and invaded Sweden

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  78. @Anatoly Karlin
    Best Korea has the most hardcore conscription, and Cicerone recently pointed out that this year they might have more births than South Korea for probably the first time ever. This is amazing, given their populations (23 million vs. 52 million, as I recall).

    Israel has the world's second most hardcore conscription. Highest TFR of any developed nation, with 8 million people, will have 75% of the number of births of 40 million Poland.

    Many of the Scandinavian countries and Russia retain conscription, have (relatively) okay TFRs. Ofc Russia's were catastrophic in the 1990s-early 2000s, but there were other factors at play. The USSR and the commie bloc in general, all with conscription systems, had good TFRs that did not collapse in the 1970s like in Western Europe.

    What's wrong with South Korea? My guesses:

    1. Reaching the nadir of their demographic transition, as happened in e.g. USA/Europe during the 1970s-80s;

    2. Feminism, faggotry etc. promoted by American influence;

    3. Extreme overwork (2500 hours per year);

    4. Low female participation in workforce indicating that combining family with career in impractical (realistically speaking, you have to do that, unless you go hardcore whi- yellow sharia mode);

    5. Wages are not particularly high - similar to Greece/Portugal, as I recall, despite the ridiculous overwork and obviously much more hi-tech nature of the Korean economy.

    Female participation in workforce is 70% – approximately the same as in Japan. Something which surprised me as I pulled some data is that Japan is actually at 93% urbanization as opposed to Korea’s 85%, and yet it has a higher TFR. This is true even in Tokyo, so its not just distortion from their “fecund minorities” such as the Okinawans(though IIRC Okinawa still has the highest TFR in Japan).

    One thing to note though is that Japanese female participation appears to be highly part time(30-40 percent of employment) if I read the World Bank statistics correctly, whereas it is mostly full time in Korea. I’m of Jim’s opinion that lower status of women encourages fertility.

    Ancedotally, I’m aware that Japanese companies generally doesn’t encourage careerism in women – as usual, through a variety of subdued social rather than explicit legal methods.

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  79. Okechukwu says:
    @songbird
    I've heard some Africans talk wistfully of old kingdoms, though I have never seen a castle, and can't comprehend the romanticism. I rather doubt that their borders did not impinge on each other with the years and conquests. All in all, Africa seems like a pretty mixed up place. I fully support them breaking up and make smaller countries, if that is their desire, but I doubt whether it would please all, particularly the newly landlocked ones.

    I suppose the British must have thought that they would learn to get along eventually, like most Europeans do. (probably not a good idea to mix Muslims and Christians though) The proof that Europeans have learned to get along is in the way that many countries have dialects which are so different that the are basically incomprehensible. Yet, I have never heard of the Swabians attacking their fellow Germans with machetes. I suppose they did fight at one time, but the idea of tribes is pretty foreign to Europeans now. The last place they existed was Montenegro, and that was about a hundred years ago or so. In other places, they exist only in ancient history. That is probably what makes Africa so interesting to white liberals - tribes evoke the idea of the noble savage.

    What I can't understand is, if Africa is such a happening place - so vibrant and so economically dynamic, why do Africans want to leave in such great numbers? Wouldn't it be a better investment to stay? Why on earth would Nigerians and Somalis want to go to place with such cold and dark winters as Sweden? Are they aficionados of winter sports? And, if so, why do some want to go to the Maghreb? And others even to Yemen?

    I’ve heard some Africans talk wistfully of old kingdoms, though I have never seen a castle, and can’t comprehend the romanticism.

    You do realize that Egyptians and Nubians had advanced architecture that still stands while Europeans were living in mud huts, right?

    The proof that Europeans have learned to get along is in the way that many countries have dialects which are so different that the are basically incomprehensible.

    That must be why they have WMD pointing at each other and why they need American forces there to make sure they don’t revert back to their traditional barbarity.

    I have never heard of the Swabians attacking their fellow Germans with machetes. I suppose they did fight at one time, but the idea of tribes is pretty foreign to Europeans now.

    The WWII era is NOW and we all know what happened then. Future historians will not quibble over a hundred years here or there. Don’t we use very malleable time frames when examining antiquity?

    What I can’t understand is, if Africa is such a happening place – so vibrant and so economically dynamic, why do Africans want to leave in such great numbers?

    You do realize that no other people have fled their homelands more than Europeans, right? They’ve populated entire continents.

    Why on earth would Nigerians and Somalis want to go to place with such cold and dark winters as Sweden?

    I suspect it’s economic. It’s the same reason the Swedes emigrated on masse in the mid to late 19th century when Sweden was a basketcase. If in the future there are greater opportunities in Africa than in Sweden, the Swedes will head to Africa. It’s just the way it is and it’s cyclical.

    Read More
    • Agree: Bliss
    • Replies: @songbird
    I'd put anything built in Europe against anything built by the Bantu any day. What do you want to compare to Great Zimbabwe? The Parthenon? The Pantheon? St. Paul's Cathedral? Perhaps there is some other place that the Bantu built that you would like to compare?

    Nuclear weapons, when used properly, are tools of peace. I'm not losing any sleep about the Ruskies pointing their missiles at me; actually, it makes me sleep better.

    The pace of migration which taking place now is totally unprecedented. It is not equaled before in history. It seems to me rather more desperate certainly than anything after the combustion engine was invented. And they are using it to escape, in their dinghies. That doesn't not seem to be part of any cycle. I don't recall anyone welcoming Europeans as warmly as they expect to be welcomed either. Certainly no welfare for the Swedes in New Sweden.
    , @DFH

    You do realize that Egyptians and Nubians had advanced architecture that still stands while Europeans were living in mud huts, right?

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVMTt8HC3uE
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  80. @Okechukwu
    Good going, Uncle Wong. Picking Somalia is like picking the poorest region in China to represent China.

    I never said Africa was developed or advanced. That being said, you have no idea where they will be in 30-50 years. Chinese were eating rats a couple of generations ago. It was so bad that they packed themselves like sardines into shipping containers to try to escape to America.

    Tone down your unwarranted Chinese supremacism. China is a cesspit in more ways than one. And they can't seem to figure out how to do anything on their own, but rather copy and steal and cheat.

    Picking Somalia is like picking the poorest region in China to represent China.

    Would probably actually be Congo or Niger or Liberia.

    Apart from the chronic anarchism, Somalia doesn’t seem to be the worst. Eastern Africans in general seem to be doing better than Western Africans.

    Still, I’d certainly pick Gansu or Hebei or whatever the poorest Chinese province is, to Congo or Somalia or even Ethiopia (and I’m relatively upbeat on Ethiopia).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Indeed, I picked Ethiopia because I think it has the most future as well(so his ranting was a bit amusing, but there was no reason to correct him). The image itself is from there:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/ethiopia-has-new-prime-minister-while-china-style-economics-continue.html
    , @Bliss

    Eastern Africans in general seem to be doing better than Western Africans.
     
    Not really. Nigeria has around 3 times the per capita income (nominal) of Ethiopia with around 2 times the population. Here’s a nice video about the Nigerian city of Lagos, the most populous city in all of Africa:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HbsdLI8kaWc
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  81. Silva says:
    @songbird
    I've heard some Africans talk wistfully of old kingdoms, though I have never seen a castle, and can't comprehend the romanticism. I rather doubt that their borders did not impinge on each other with the years and conquests. All in all, Africa seems like a pretty mixed up place. I fully support them breaking up and make smaller countries, if that is their desire, but I doubt whether it would please all, particularly the newly landlocked ones.

    I suppose the British must have thought that they would learn to get along eventually, like most Europeans do. (probably not a good idea to mix Muslims and Christians though) The proof that Europeans have learned to get along is in the way that many countries have dialects which are so different that the are basically incomprehensible. Yet, I have never heard of the Swabians attacking their fellow Germans with machetes. I suppose they did fight at one time, but the idea of tribes is pretty foreign to Europeans now. The last place they existed was Montenegro, and that was about a hundred years ago or so. In other places, they exist only in ancient history. That is probably what makes Africa so interesting to white liberals - tribes evoke the idea of the noble savage.

    What I can't understand is, if Africa is such a happening place - so vibrant and so economically dynamic, why do Africans want to leave in such great numbers? Wouldn't it be a better investment to stay? Why on earth would Nigerians and Somalis want to go to place with such cold and dark winters as Sweden? Are they aficionados of winter sports? And, if so, why do some want to go to the Maghreb? And others even to Yemen?

    Scotland has officially recognized tribes. And what taught Europeans to get along was centuries of concentric self-directed wars – I do think Africans should be allowed to have at least some decades of that, without a escape valve; it’d teach them what Europeans learned*, and disperse the units that can’t possibly take care of themselves.

    *: it seems a bunch of Igbos learned “don’t oppose the Hausa, they’re strong; invade the West, which is weak”, for example.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH

    Scotland has officially recognized tribes.
     
    What do you mean?
    , @songbird

    Scotland has officially recognized tribes.
     
    I am honestly really confused on what these terms mean exactly, but I think you mean clans, which are sort of like sub-tribes, or related families.

    If you read some of the extant medieval Irish texts, you can get the idea that many surnames come from clans and on top of that they seem to have had references to groups which I think must be tribes like the Dalcassians. There are also regions which correspond to old tribes like Burgundy, but I think the idea of tribes is mostly long vanished from Europe.

    I agree with your general premise though that fair's fair, and they need to be left alone for some time to see if they can work out their differences, and I believe interventions probably don't help. As well, I think aid is in general negative, and they should be left to develop without it.
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  82. @Anatoly Karlin
    Best Korea has the most hardcore conscription, and Cicerone recently pointed out that this year they might have more births than South Korea for probably the first time ever. This is amazing, given their populations (23 million vs. 52 million, as I recall).

    Israel has the world's second most hardcore conscription. Highest TFR of any developed nation, with 8 million people, will have 75% of the number of births of 40 million Poland.

    Many of the Scandinavian countries and Russia retain conscription, have (relatively) okay TFRs. Ofc Russia's were catastrophic in the 1990s-early 2000s, but there were other factors at play. The USSR and the commie bloc in general, all with conscription systems, had good TFRs that did not collapse in the 1970s like in Western Europe.

    What's wrong with South Korea? My guesses:

    1. Reaching the nadir of their demographic transition, as happened in e.g. USA/Europe during the 1970s-80s;

    2. Feminism, faggotry etc. promoted by American influence;

    3. Extreme overwork (2500 hours per year);

    4. Low female participation in workforce indicating that combining family with career in impractical (realistically speaking, you have to do that, unless you go hardcore whi- yellow sharia mode);

    5. Wages are not particularly high - similar to Greece/Portugal, as I recall, despite the ridiculous overwork and obviously much more hi-tech nature of the Korean economy.

    The conscription thesis requires more rigorous examination than that. North Korea is a radically different society than South Korea. One could start by comparing age cohorts in countries that abolished conscription, and see if the differences between these age cohorts were greater in magnitude than where conscription was unchanged.

    3. Extreme overwork (2500 hours per year);

    That’s a fifty hour workweek. Not really a big deal if female labor force participation is low, unless compounded by long commutes (doubt that exists) or the culture of going out drinking with workmates.

    4. Low female participation in workforce indicating that combining family with career in impractical (realistically speaking, you have to do that, unless you go hardcore whi- yellow sharia mode);

    Do you? TFR was highest in the urbanized West (i.e. not considering the much higher rural fertility of the 19th century) when female workforce participation was at its nadir in the 1950s. There was no white sharia either–women mostly had equal rights and had for a long time (there was some minor stuff left like not being able to get a credit card without your husban’s permission).

    It was simply expected women would stop working as soon as they could afford to.

    That said if we do go hardcore white/yellow sharia in the future, women dropping out of the workforce en masse won’t actually be necessary or desirable I’ve realized. There just isn’t that much labor required to maintain a household anymore, and that figure will keep dropping. Restoring the principle of guardianship and traditional marital property laws would be enough.

    5. Wages are not particularly high – similar to Greece/Portugal, as I recall, despite the ridiculous overwork and obviously much more hi-tech nature of the Korean economy.

    Apparently higher than Japan these days: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/02/14/korean-wages-are-now-higher-than-japanese-wages-perhaps-for-the-first-time-in-3000-years/#69ea068021a0

    Cost of living slightly lower: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Japan&country2=South+Korea

    Read More
    • Replies: @Silva
    Women having the right to work anywhere, and choosing to be housewives instead of doing so, required high labor income, which required evil Leftist unions. And the "domestic labor" of nowadays could be actually raising the children - if one didn't mind wives knowing as much as the husbands (and if such a thing could be done, to be fair).
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  83. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    You're missing the most important part of the reasoning for the banner and the image: trolling.

    Well I was going to say (although no expect on Chinese culture) that these seem to be wishes more relevant for China, as a result of the country’s recent past being the opposite of them – and for reasons which are apparent in the Chinese tragedies of the 19th and 20th centuries.

    The factory is in Ethiopia though, and the harmonious living sign would also a kind of wishful dream for that country with its civil war and communist genocides into the 1980s (in which the Soviet Union has played a very unfortunate role in its support for Mengistu).

    I don’t think China is trolling considering how much they invest in Ethiopia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    They're just aspirational Confucian-ish wishes, a kind of secular religion. Insofar as they have any deeper meaning, they're exhortations to the workers of what to aim for: 1) work hard, 2)think of others, and 3)think of the long-term(don't take shortcuts).

    Repetition creates a reality in its own way.
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  84. DFH says:
    @Silva
    Scotland has officially recognized tribes. And what taught Europeans to get along was centuries of concentric self-directed wars - I do think Africans should be allowed to have at least some decades of that, without a escape valve; it'd teach them what Europeans learned*, and disperse the units that can't possibly take care of themselves.

    *: it seems a bunch of Igbos learned "don't oppose the Hausa, they're strong; invade the West, which is weak", for example.

    Scotland has officially recognized tribes.

    What do you mean?

    Read More
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  85. @Anatoly Karlin

    Picking Somalia is like picking the poorest region in China to represent China.
     
    Would probably actually be Congo or Niger or Liberia.

    Apart from the chronic anarchism, Somalia doesn't seem to be the worst. Eastern Africans in general seem to be doing better than Western Africans.

    Still, I'd certainly pick Gansu or Hebei or whatever the poorest Chinese province is, to Congo or Somalia or even Ethiopia (and I'm relatively upbeat on Ethiopia).

    Indeed, I picked Ethiopia because I think it has the most future as well(so his ranting was a bit amusing, but there was no reason to correct him). The image itself is from there:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/ethiopia-has-new-prime-minister-while-china-style-economics-continue.html

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  86. Silva says:
    @Thorfinnsson
    The conscription thesis requires more rigorous examination than that. North Korea is a radically different society than South Korea. One could start by comparing age cohorts in countries that abolished conscription, and see if the differences between these age cohorts were greater in magnitude than where conscription was unchanged.


    3. Extreme overwork (2500 hours per year);
     
    That's a fifty hour workweek. Not really a big deal if female labor force participation is low, unless compounded by long commutes (doubt that exists) or the culture of going out drinking with workmates.

    4. Low female participation in workforce indicating that combining family with career in impractical (realistically speaking, you have to do that, unless you go hardcore whi- yellow sharia mode);
     
    Do you? TFR was highest in the urbanized West (i.e. not considering the much higher rural fertility of the 19th century) when female workforce participation was at its nadir in the 1950s. There was no white sharia either--women mostly had equal rights and had for a long time (there was some minor stuff left like not being able to get a credit card without your husban's permission).

    It was simply expected women would stop working as soon as they could afford to.

    That said if we do go hardcore white/yellow sharia in the future, women dropping out of the workforce en masse won't actually be necessary or desirable I've realized. There just isn't that much labor required to maintain a household anymore, and that figure will keep dropping. Restoring the principle of guardianship and traditional marital property laws would be enough.


    5. Wages are not particularly high – similar to Greece/Portugal, as I recall, despite the ridiculous overwork and obviously much more hi-tech nature of the Korean economy.
     
    Apparently higher than Japan these days: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/02/14/korean-wages-are-now-higher-than-japanese-wages-perhaps-for-the-first-time-in-3000-years/#69ea068021a0

    Cost of living slightly lower: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Japan&country2=South+Korea

    Women having the right to work anywhere, and choosing to be housewives instead of doing so, required high labor income, which required evil Leftist unions. And the “domestic labor” of nowadays could be actually raising the children – if one didn’t mind wives knowing as much as the husbands (and if such a thing could be done, to be fair).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Right. Thus the concept of the "family wage" and at one point, variations of feminists actually protested for it, with the idea that it indeed enabled women who wanted to be housewives to continue to do so without suffering from a significant drop in their quality of life.

    This was defeated, of course, and my opinion is that the ever-increasing need for labor participation and later easy credit, helped hide the stall in wage increases and effectively hide the decrease in living standard for the average worker, while virtue signaling emancipation and wealth.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Wages in the 1950s were a lot lower than today, especially in Western Europe. In America labor income reached a plateau and stagnated rather than collapsing. If you read a typical cookbook for housewives in the 1950s its packed with tips for economizing which are shocking today, along with lots of recipes for low grade meat cuts no longer even available. Fertility on the other hand peaked in 1959 and then began rapidly collapsing. I think oral contraceptives and Sex and the Single Girl came out around the same time.

    Non-economic factors are primarily to blame, though economic factors aren't irrelevant (takes longer to "establish" oneself these days and such, student loan burden in America, prohibitive housing costs in some other countries, etc.).
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  87. Pericles says:
    @Beckow
    You have to ask yourself why a re-heated Cold war 'prepare for war' booklet was released. It could be something innocent, like a few busy-body byrocrats looking for something to do. Or it is a flat-footed result of some meeting with the 'Atlantic' alliance that some Swedish byrocrats took too seriously. It could scare the migrants and we wouldn't want that, would we?

    last invaded by Russians 200+ years ago
     
    I hate to be picky, here, but when and by whom? It could be that if you include wars over Ingria and Finland in 18th century, you could say there was an 'invasion'. I am not sure I would. My point is that there has never been a single Russian soldier on Swedish soil in 1,000 years, Sweden as is it is today. No invasion, nada, zilch. Why would they start now? Maybe craving that Somali take-out food?

    The Arlanda broke 1-2 stations after the airport, there was nothing there. I nice Swedish girl guided me through it, she was on her way to work in some suburb and told me that it takes her 1 1/2 hour each day to get to work. But housing is so scarce and expensive that she can only afford to live by the airport. But she - and the rest of the Swedes - were amazingly passive and fatalistic about it all. I admire that, but it won't work in the long run.

    In the war over Finland 1808-1809, Russian armies also entered Sweden as such in 1809 and briefly occupied Umeå, Kalix, Skellefteå, Piteå in northern Sweden. Apparently the Russians at one point even sent cavalry towards Stockholm over the frozen Baltic, which was kind of cool, but nothing came of that.

    As you might guess, the peace negotiations were painful and we ended up losing Finland.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    So you could say that Russians invaded Finland, but nor really Sweden as it is today; the 'Swedish' Sweden, not its colonies or dependencies. Finland should really belong to the Finns, 'losing it' is an odd way to describe it.

    I didn't know about Russian army crossing into Sweden proper in the north, thanks for enlightening me. It does seem rather minor.
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  88. @Silva
    Women having the right to work anywhere, and choosing to be housewives instead of doing so, required high labor income, which required evil Leftist unions. And the "domestic labor" of nowadays could be actually raising the children - if one didn't mind wives knowing as much as the husbands (and if such a thing could be done, to be fair).

    Right. Thus the concept of the “family wage” and at one point, variations of feminists actually protested for it, with the idea that it indeed enabled women who wanted to be housewives to continue to do so without suffering from a significant drop in their quality of life.

    This was defeated, of course, and my opinion is that the ever-increasing need for labor participation and later easy credit, helped hide the stall in wage increases and effectively hide the decrease in living standard for the average worker, while virtue signaling emancipation and wealth.

    Read More
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  89. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor
    Nice African tribal writing!

    Reiner tor this is Amharic. It’s cool looking alphabet for me.

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  90. @Silva
    Women having the right to work anywhere, and choosing to be housewives instead of doing so, required high labor income, which required evil Leftist unions. And the "domestic labor" of nowadays could be actually raising the children - if one didn't mind wives knowing as much as the husbands (and if such a thing could be done, to be fair).

    Wages in the 1950s were a lot lower than today, especially in Western Europe. In America labor income reached a plateau and stagnated rather than collapsing. If you read a typical cookbook for housewives in the 1950s its packed with tips for economizing which are shocking today, along with lots of recipes for low grade meat cuts no longer even available. Fertility on the other hand peaked in 1959 and then began rapidly collapsing. I think oral contraceptives and Sex and the Single Girl came out around the same time.

    Non-economic factors are primarily to blame, though economic factors aren’t irrelevant (takes longer to “establish” oneself these days and such, student loan burden in America, prohibitive housing costs in some other countries, etc.).

    Read More
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  91. @Dmitry
    Well I was going to say (although no expect on Chinese culture) that these seem to be wishes more relevant for China, as a result of the country's recent past being the opposite of them - and for reasons which are apparent in the Chinese tragedies of the 19th and 20th centuries.

    The factory is in Ethiopia though, and the harmonious living sign would also a kind of wishful dream for that country with its civil war and communist genocides into the 1980s (in which the Soviet Union has played a very unfortunate role in its support for Mengistu).

    I don't think China is trolling considering how much they invest in Ethiopia.

    They’re just aspirational Confucian-ish wishes, a kind of secular religion. Insofar as they have any deeper meaning, they’re exhortations to the workers of what to aim for: 1) work hard, 2)think of others, and 3)think of the long-term(don’t take shortcuts).

    Repetition creates a reality in its own way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I agree the aspirational - it's like bathroom mirror reminders that Chinese put for themselves.

    And also it is interesting in usually relating to things one is oneself (as a nationality) feeling weakest for.

    We also had a little of these ironic exhortations.

    http://artpoisk.info/files/images/24741.jpg

    Some reminders on time management:

    https://www.historyworlds.ru/uploads/gallery/main/261/375.jpg


    The Chinese signs are missing our social pressure component though:

    http://www.plakaty.ru/upload/iblock/1d7/1d77f43a263742b4060446e6cd6aa73f.jpg?timestamp=1527114267547
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  92. songbird says:
    @Silva
    Scotland has officially recognized tribes. And what taught Europeans to get along was centuries of concentric self-directed wars - I do think Africans should be allowed to have at least some decades of that, without a escape valve; it'd teach them what Europeans learned*, and disperse the units that can't possibly take care of themselves.

    *: it seems a bunch of Igbos learned "don't oppose the Hausa, they're strong; invade the West, which is weak", for example.

    Scotland has officially recognized tribes.

    I am honestly really confused on what these terms mean exactly, but I think you mean clans, which are sort of like sub-tribes, or related families.

    If you read some of the extant medieval Irish texts, you can get the idea that many surnames come from clans and on top of that they seem to have had references to groups which I think must be tribes like the Dalcassians. There are also regions which correspond to old tribes like Burgundy, but I think the idea of tribes is mostly long vanished from Europe.

    I agree with your general premise though that fair’s fair, and they need to be left alone for some time to see if they can work out their differences, and I believe interventions probably don’t help. As well, I think aid is in general negative, and they should be left to develop without it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH

    I am honestly really confused on what these terms mean exactly, but I think you mean clans, which are sort of like sub-tribes, or related families.

     

    If he means that then he is wrong since any 'official recognition' they had was destroyed by the heritable jurisdictions act of 1746
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  93. @Anonymous

    I note that Sweden has arguably the strongest far-right movement of any European country except perhaps Greece and certainly outside of Europe in any Western country.
     
    Doesn't seem to be true. Surely Austria has the largest movement in Western Europe? And if including all of the EU, surely Poland?

    In Switzerland the far right SVP is strong- and part of the government since it’s founding.

    Read More
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  94. songbird says:
    @Okechukwu

    I’ve heard some Africans talk wistfully of old kingdoms, though I have never seen a castle, and can’t comprehend the romanticism.
     
    You do realize that Egyptians and Nubians had advanced architecture that still stands while Europeans were living in mud huts, right?

    The proof that Europeans have learned to get along is in the way that many countries have dialects which are so different that the are basically incomprehensible.
     
    That must be why they have WMD pointing at each other and why they need American forces there to make sure they don't revert back to their traditional barbarity.

    I have never heard of the Swabians attacking their fellow Germans with machetes. I suppose they did fight at one time, but the idea of tribes is pretty foreign to Europeans now.
     
    The WWII era is NOW and we all know what happened then. Future historians will not quibble over a hundred years here or there. Don't we use very malleable time frames when examining antiquity?

    What I can’t understand is, if Africa is such a happening place – so vibrant and so economically dynamic, why do Africans want to leave in such great numbers?
     
    You do realize that no other people have fled their homelands more than Europeans, right? They've populated entire continents.

    Why on earth would Nigerians and Somalis want to go to place with such cold and dark winters as Sweden?
     
    I suspect it's economic. It's the same reason the Swedes emigrated on masse in the mid to late 19th century when Sweden was a basketcase. If in the future there are greater opportunities in Africa than in Sweden, the Swedes will head to Africa. It's just the way it is and it's cyclical.

    I’d put anything built in Europe against anything built by the Bantu any day. What do you want to compare to Great Zimbabwe? The Parthenon? The Pantheon? St. Paul’s Cathedral? Perhaps there is some other place that the Bantu built that you would like to compare?

    Nuclear weapons, when used properly, are tools of peace. I’m not losing any sleep about the Ruskies pointing their missiles at me; actually, it makes me sleep better.

    The pace of migration which taking place now is totally unprecedented. It is not equaled before in history. It seems to me rather more desperate certainly than anything after the combustion engine was invented. And they are using it to escape, in their dinghies. That doesn’t not seem to be part of any cycle. I don’t recall anyone welcoming Europeans as warmly as they expect to be welcomed either. Certainly no welfare for the Swedes in New Sweden.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    I’d put anything built in Europe against anything built by the Bantu any day. What do you want to compare to Great Zimbabwe? The Parthenon? The Pantheon? St. Paul’s Cathedral?
     
    But the Europeans who would later unleash the destructive forces of white supremacy didn't build any of those things. They were barbarian savages by the standards of the times. Europe is a social construct, little more than a line on a map. The builders of those structures would not identify themselves with European barbarians, nor would they embrace any sort of ethnic or cultural affinity with the same barbarians. Moreover, it was the civilizational spark from the aforementioned Egyptians and Nubians that radiated up to the Ancient Greeks and Romans and heavily influenced their own achievements.

    Nuclear weapons, when used properly, are tools of peace. I’m not losing any sleep about the Ruskies pointing their missiles at me; actually, it makes me sleep better.
     
    Those weapons will be used one day. It's inevitable. Then you won't sleep so well.

    The pace of migration which taking place now is totally unprecedented. It is not equaled before in history.
     
    That's absurd. Once again, Europeans have occupied entire continents. Today's immigration is a barely perceptible trickle by comparison.

    I don’t recall anyone welcoming Europeans as warmly as they expect to be welcomed either.
     
    Where in the world or in Africa are Europeans unwelcome? Usually Europeans are given red carpet treatment in the developing world. White privilege doesn't only exist in white countries. I have an Iraqi business associate who takes a white guy with him to all his meetings in the Middle East. The white guy just sits there and says nothing. Why? Because white privilege is a global phenomenon. My associate gains instant gravitas simply by having a white guy present.

    Certainly no welfare for the Swedes in New Sweden.
     
    The Swedes were given free land and all manner of assistance upon arrival in America. Black Americans who had been here for hundreds of years slaving away were not afforded the same opportunities.
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  95. Beckow says:
    @Pericles
    In the war over Finland 1808-1809, Russian armies also entered Sweden as such in 1809 and briefly occupied Umeå, Kalix, Skellefteå, Piteå in northern Sweden. Apparently the Russians at one point even sent cavalry towards Stockholm over the frozen Baltic, which was kind of cool, but nothing came of that.

    As you might guess, the peace negotiations were painful and we ended up losing Finland.

    So you could say that Russians invaded Finland, but nor really Sweden as it is today; the ‘Swedish’ Sweden, not its colonies or dependencies. Finland should really belong to the Finns, ‘losing it’ is an odd way to describe it.

    I didn’t know about Russian army crossing into Sweden proper in the north, thanks for enlightening me. It does seem rather minor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles

    So you could say that Russians invaded Finland, but nor really Sweden as it is today

     

    Huh? What I'm saying is they obviously were in Sweden too.

    Finland should really belong to the Finns, ‘losing it’ is an odd way to describe it.

     

    Finland was part of Sweden for about 600 years before that so I don't find it that odd.

    Anyway, there you have the background.
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  96. DFH says:
    @Okechukwu

    I’ve heard some Africans talk wistfully of old kingdoms, though I have never seen a castle, and can’t comprehend the romanticism.
     
    You do realize that Egyptians and Nubians had advanced architecture that still stands while Europeans were living in mud huts, right?

    The proof that Europeans have learned to get along is in the way that many countries have dialects which are so different that the are basically incomprehensible.
     
    That must be why they have WMD pointing at each other and why they need American forces there to make sure they don't revert back to their traditional barbarity.

    I have never heard of the Swabians attacking their fellow Germans with machetes. I suppose they did fight at one time, but the idea of tribes is pretty foreign to Europeans now.
     
    The WWII era is NOW and we all know what happened then. Future historians will not quibble over a hundred years here or there. Don't we use very malleable time frames when examining antiquity?

    What I can’t understand is, if Africa is such a happening place – so vibrant and so economically dynamic, why do Africans want to leave in such great numbers?
     
    You do realize that no other people have fled their homelands more than Europeans, right? They've populated entire continents.

    Why on earth would Nigerians and Somalis want to go to place with such cold and dark winters as Sweden?
     
    I suspect it's economic. It's the same reason the Swedes emigrated on masse in the mid to late 19th century when Sweden was a basketcase. If in the future there are greater opportunities in Africa than in Sweden, the Swedes will head to Africa. It's just the way it is and it's cyclical.

    You do realize that Egyptians and Nubians had advanced architecture that still stands while Europeans were living in mud huts, right?

    Read More
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  97. DFH says:
    @songbird

    Scotland has officially recognized tribes.
     
    I am honestly really confused on what these terms mean exactly, but I think you mean clans, which are sort of like sub-tribes, or related families.

    If you read some of the extant medieval Irish texts, you can get the idea that many surnames come from clans and on top of that they seem to have had references to groups which I think must be tribes like the Dalcassians. There are also regions which correspond to old tribes like Burgundy, but I think the idea of tribes is mostly long vanished from Europe.

    I agree with your general premise though that fair's fair, and they need to be left alone for some time to see if they can work out their differences, and I believe interventions probably don't help. As well, I think aid is in general negative, and they should be left to develop without it.

    I am honestly really confused on what these terms mean exactly, but I think you mean clans, which are sort of like sub-tribes, or related families.

    If he means that then he is wrong since any ‘official recognition’ they had was destroyed by the heritable jurisdictions act of 1746

    Read More
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  98. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    They're just aspirational Confucian-ish wishes, a kind of secular religion. Insofar as they have any deeper meaning, they're exhortations to the workers of what to aim for: 1) work hard, 2)think of others, and 3)think of the long-term(don't take shortcuts).

    Repetition creates a reality in its own way.

    I agree the aspirational – it’s like bathroom mirror reminders that Chinese put for themselves.

    And also it is interesting in usually relating to things one is oneself (as a nationality) feeling weakest for.

    We also had a little of these ironic exhortations.

    Some reminders on time management:

    The Chinese signs are missing our social pressure component though:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    The word "harmony" like the colors green and red being worn there, are all of ritual and essentially religious significance. Trying to explain it in a purely secular way wouldn't work. In a way, its a decent example of the transcendent or traces of premodern spirituality/superstition that permeates even day to day Chinese life.
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  99. Okechukwu says:
    @songbird
    I'd put anything built in Europe against anything built by the Bantu any day. What do you want to compare to Great Zimbabwe? The Parthenon? The Pantheon? St. Paul's Cathedral? Perhaps there is some other place that the Bantu built that you would like to compare?

    Nuclear weapons, when used properly, are tools of peace. I'm not losing any sleep about the Ruskies pointing their missiles at me; actually, it makes me sleep better.

    The pace of migration which taking place now is totally unprecedented. It is not equaled before in history. It seems to me rather more desperate certainly than anything after the combustion engine was invented. And they are using it to escape, in their dinghies. That doesn't not seem to be part of any cycle. I don't recall anyone welcoming Europeans as warmly as they expect to be welcomed either. Certainly no welfare for the Swedes in New Sweden.

    I’d put anything built in Europe against anything built by the Bantu any day. What do you want to compare to Great Zimbabwe? The Parthenon? The Pantheon? St. Paul’s Cathedral?

    But the Europeans who would later unleash the destructive forces of white supremacy didn’t build any of those things. They were barbarian savages by the standards of the times. Europe is a social construct, little more than a line on a map. The builders of those structures would not identify themselves with European barbarians, nor would they embrace any sort of ethnic or cultural affinity with the same barbarians. Moreover, it was the civilizational spark from the aforementioned Egyptians and Nubians that radiated up to the Ancient Greeks and Romans and heavily influenced their own achievements.

    Nuclear weapons, when used properly, are tools of peace. I’m not losing any sleep about the Ruskies pointing their missiles at me; actually, it makes me sleep better.

    Those weapons will be used one day. It’s inevitable. Then you won’t sleep so well.

    The pace of migration which taking place now is totally unprecedented. It is not equaled before in history.

    That’s absurd. Once again, Europeans have occupied entire continents. Today’s immigration is a barely perceptible trickle by comparison.

    I don’t recall anyone welcoming Europeans as warmly as they expect to be welcomed either.

    Where in the world or in Africa are Europeans unwelcome? Usually Europeans are given red carpet treatment in the developing world. White privilege doesn’t only exist in white countries. I have an Iraqi business associate who takes a white guy with him to all his meetings in the Middle East. The white guy just sits there and says nothing. Why? Because white privilege is a global phenomenon. My associate gains instant gravitas simply by having a white guy present.

    Certainly no welfare for the Swedes in New Sweden.

    The Swedes were given free land and all manner of assistance upon arrival in America. Black Americans who had been here for hundreds of years slaving away were not afforded the same opportunities.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bliss

    But the Europeans who would later unleash the destructive forces of white supremacy didn’t build any of those things. They were barbarian savages by the standards of the times. Europe is a social construct, little more than a line on a map. The builders of those structures would not identify themselves with European barbarians, nor would they embrace any sort of ethnic or cultural affinity with the same barbarians. Moreover, it was the civilizational spark from the aforementioned Egyptians and Nubians that radiated up to the Ancient Greeks and Romans and heavily influenced their own achievements.
     
    Very true. But that does not stop these folks from claiming to be the real Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans. And more.

    The Swedes were given free land and all manner of assistance upon arrival in America. Black Americans who had been here for hundreds of years slaving away were not afforded the same opportunities.
     
    Exactly. Not just the Swedes but also the Norwegians, Germans etc. The Italians, Irish, Slavs etc were excluded from these handouts.

    African-Americans were promised 40 acres and a mule. Of course that didn’t happen.
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  100. Okechukwu says:
    @Silva
    Dude, you seem to be from a smarter African minority that got slaughtered trying to free itself from the dumber (and Muslim) Africans - are you sure you want to defend the (inbred, Muslim) Somalis?

    I’m interested in facts and empirical science. I loathe racially motivated nonsense being promoted as facts or science.

    So the question becomes: Which Somalis were IQ tested? Who tested them? Where? When? How? Sample size, etc.? Pretend that you’re in a court of law and you’re out to prove that Somalis have an IQ of 70. Okay, where’s your evidence?

    I understand the motivation. Some people are wracked by severe pangs of inferiority in various aspects of their lives and they find succor in looking down on others. But, ultimately, that’s tantamount to trying to drown out problems with drugs or alcohol. Others think that they can restrict immigration if only they can convince everyone that potential black or brown immigrants are too stupid or too unfit for western societies. But normal society including the people in position to enact policy aren’t dumb enough to believe that.

    Read More
    • Troll: German_reader
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Don't put the cart before the horse, it makes you look foolish.
    , @utu

    I’m interested in facts and empirical science.
     
    Good you adopted one of the most important value of Western civilization. Stick to it.

    Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

    We find that ancient Egyptians are most closely related to Neolithic and Bronze Age samples in the Levant, as well as to Neolithic Anatolian and European populations (Fig. 5a,b). When comparing this pattern with modern Egyptians, we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested
     

    Mummy DNA unravels ancient Egyptians’ ancestry
    Genetic analysis reveals a close relationship with Middle Easterners, not central Africans.
    https://www.nature.com/news/mummy-dna-unravels-ancient-egyptians-ancestry-1.22069

    Both types of genomic material showed that ancient Egyptians shared little DNA with modern sub-Saharan Africans. Instead, their closest relatives were people living during the Neolithic and Bronze ages in an area known as the Levant. Strikingly, the mummies were more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians.
     
    Can you stop this nonsense about ancient Egypt as if it had any connection with the so-called Africans meaning the sub-Sahara Africans. The concept of Africa is relatively new. It is a construct made by Greeks which were Europeans. Egypt used to be considered to be a part of Asia until Ptolemy. It is a construct. Just like the eastern border of Europe is a construct. The term Africa referred to Northern Africa. Ask anybody who lives there now if they are Africans in the same sense as your people, i.e., sub Sahara Africans like Nigerians and they will bluntly tell you that they have nothing in common with Kaffirs like you and are sorry that they have to share a continent with you. Go to Libya, which is also in Africa and you may end up on the slave auction. Yes, slave auction in Africa run by Africans in 2018. This nonsense about Africa and Egypt you shamelessly bring up here can on fly among some semantically confuse Afro-Americans.
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  101. @DFH
    I thought the Chinese, the Jew and the Paki were obnoxious enough, please tell me that the African isn't going to be a permanent addition to AK's vibrant comment section

    No one ever expects the diversity inquisition!

    Read More
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  102. @Okechukwu
    I'm interested in facts and empirical science. I loathe racially motivated nonsense being promoted as facts or science.

    So the question becomes: Which Somalis were IQ tested? Who tested them? Where? When? How? Sample size, etc.? Pretend that you're in a court of law and you're out to prove that Somalis have an IQ of 70. Okay, where's your evidence?

    I understand the motivation. Some people are wracked by severe pangs of inferiority in various aspects of their lives and they find succor in looking down on others. But, ultimately, that's tantamount to trying to drown out problems with drugs or alcohol. Others think that they can restrict immigration if only they can convince everyone that potential black or brown immigrants are too stupid or too unfit for western societies. But normal society including the people in position to enact policy aren't dumb enough to believe that.

    Don’t put the cart before the horse, it makes you look foolish.

    Read More
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  103. @Dmitry
    At least in the first link (which is also about Japan) - are you sure ? At least from watching videos, school looks pretty nice in Japan, and some of their schools they grow the food for lunch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL5mKE4e4uU

    At least in the first link (which is also about Japan) – are you sure ? At least from watching videos, school looks pretty nice in Japan, and some of their schools they grow the food for lunch.

    I only saw the two replies from a Korean guy and a teacher in Korea, not from Japanese. I’m not well informed about their schools today. In the economic boom era, they had mad exam cramming since kindergarten, as written in this 1980s book. By now – probably got more chill. Food is of course extremely important in the life of Japanese people at any time.

    Зубрежка продолжается после школьных и домашних занятий в так называемых “дзюку”, то есть на платных курсах. Каждый вечер до полуночи, иногда и в воскресенье школьники учат, не учатся, а именно учат, исторические факты — все подряд по хронологической таблице, английские слова — по словарю, страница за страницей, названия станций на главных железнодорожных магистралях — по расписанию поездов, маршрут за маршрутом. “Будешь спать четыре часа — в университет попадешь, будешь спать пять часов — провалишься”, — бытует в Японии поговорка. 

    http://flibusta.is/b/215916/read#t9

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I think also they are in their 20s, they are complaining a lot about pressure.

    We used to have to call guys at Hitachi a few times for our job - and I remember all we heard from them when we asked them how they are doing - 'work is bad' or 'it is very very bad'.

    Probably we have to teach them some of our skills of pretending to work while surfing the internet, posting on forums, and watching YouTube videos with headphones.
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  104. utu says:
    @Okechukwu
    I'm interested in facts and empirical science. I loathe racially motivated nonsense being promoted as facts or science.

    So the question becomes: Which Somalis were IQ tested? Who tested them? Where? When? How? Sample size, etc.? Pretend that you're in a court of law and you're out to prove that Somalis have an IQ of 70. Okay, where's your evidence?

    I understand the motivation. Some people are wracked by severe pangs of inferiority in various aspects of their lives and they find succor in looking down on others. But, ultimately, that's tantamount to trying to drown out problems with drugs or alcohol. Others think that they can restrict immigration if only they can convince everyone that potential black or brown immigrants are too stupid or too unfit for western societies. But normal society including the people in position to enact policy aren't dumb enough to believe that.

    I’m interested in facts and empirical science.

    Good you adopted one of the most important value of Western civilization. Stick to it.

    Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

    We find that ancient Egyptians are most closely related to Neolithic and Bronze Age samples in the Levant, as well as to Neolithic Anatolian and European populations (Fig. 5a,b). When comparing this pattern with modern Egyptians, we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested

    Mummy DNA unravels ancient Egyptians’ ancestry
    Genetic analysis reveals a close relationship with Middle Easterners, not central Africans.

    https://www.nature.com/news/mummy-dna-unravels-ancient-egyptians-ancestry-1.22069

    Both types of genomic material showed that ancient Egyptians shared little DNA with modern sub-Saharan Africans. Instead, their closest relatives were people living during the Neolithic and Bronze ages in an area known as the Levant. Strikingly, the mummies were more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians.

    Can you stop this nonsense about ancient Egypt as if it had any connection with the so-called Africans meaning the sub-Sahara Africans. The concept of Africa is relatively new. It is a construct made by Greeks which were Europeans. Egypt used to be considered to be a part of Asia until Ptolemy. It is a construct. Just like the eastern border of Europe is a construct. The term Africa referred to Northern Africa. Ask anybody who lives there now if they are Africans in the same sense as your people, i.e., sub Sahara Africans like Nigerians and they will bluntly tell you that they have nothing in common with Kaffirs like you and are sorry that they have to share a continent with you. Go to Libya, which is also in Africa and you may end up on the slave auction. Yes, slave auction in Africa run by Africans in 2018. This nonsense about Africa and Egypt you shamelessly bring up here can on fly among some semantically confuse Afro-Americans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bliss
    Unfortunately for you:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_May_2015.JPG/1200px-Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_May_2015.JPG


    http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his311/notes/herod.htm

    The Greek writer Herodotus was best early source on Africa. Little is known about his life. Herodotus was born in Halicarnassus (modern Bodrun) on the southwest coast of Asia Minor, around 480BC, at a time when Halicarnassus was under the rule of a Persian Satrap, a woman named Artemisia.

    Herodotus believed that the Colchians (southern Black Sea area) were introduced to Asia by Egyptian expansion as far as Thrace and Scythia because "they have black skins and curly hair (not that that amounts to much, as other nations have the same)." [Herodotus, Histories, 167.] They also practised circumcision, unlike Mediterranean peoples of the time.
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  105. songbird says:

    But the Europeans who would later unleash the destructive forces of white supremacy didn’t build any of those things. They were barbarian savages by the standards of the times.

    I must admit, you have lost me here. Are you speaking of the Nazis? They were not particularly known for good architecture, at least not in a critical way. But they did built many impressive things: jet engines and rockets. Germans as a whole certainly built many impressive things. For instance, Cologne Cathedral. In many cities, the average person can’t even keep track of all the old, impressive churches. I wouldn’t say that Nazis were white supremacists though – they did not like the Slavs. They thought Italians were a joke. There’s not a lot of overlap with them and nationalists in general.

    [MORE]

    The Parthenon was built in 447 BC. It beats anything the Bantu ever designed and built up to the current moment. There is even a lot before that which does. The Treasury of Atreus was built about 1250 BC, and is probably more impressive than anything the Bantu built. Newgrange was built about 3200 BC, it is older than the pyramids. Not quite as impressive, but I’m not too sure a giant limestone structure would stand up to 5,000 years of winters, or rain. Not sure, it is really a great use of labor either. Seems kind of megalomaniacal. Europe didn’t have the same population either because of climate. Still, I wouldn’t put down their early contributions either. The wheel is pretty useful, so is the horse. Africans didn’t really domesticate any useful animals.

    Europe is a social construct, little more than a line on a map.

    Did the Bantu even have maps?

    Today’s immigration is a barely perceptible trickle by comparison.

    Is that what it is called when lines of people snake over the horizon?

    Where in the world or in Africa are Europeans unwelcome?

    Zimbabwe. South Africa. North Africa. Really, anywhere they are not in the majority, if their numbers actually seem to be growing.

    Black Americans who had been here for hundreds of years slaving away were not afforded the same opportunities.

    The Bantu got plenty of free land, when they killed the San and Khoi. They didn’t seem to do much with it though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    the Nazis? They were not particularly known for good architecture
     
    I disagree.

    I think the Nazi architecture (really, Hitler’s architecture - architecture being his hobby, he personally overlooked the planning of all major buildings) was impressive. The Reich Chancellery building had to be demolished, because they thought it would be too impressive and thus preserve Hitler’s name or something. The building of the Reich Aviation Ministry was also impressive (and modernist - Hitler thought that only a modern building was good enough for such a modern function), it still stands to this day (housing the German ministry of finance).

    But most of what they were planning to build never got built. The usual criticism is that these plans were megalomaniacal, typical of a totalitarian dictatorship like Nazi Germany. Well, I guess that’s the reason why no skyscrapers were ever built in democratic countries - they just look too megalomaniacal.
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  106. @Dmitry
    I agree the aspirational - it's like bathroom mirror reminders that Chinese put for themselves.

    And also it is interesting in usually relating to things one is oneself (as a nationality) feeling weakest for.

    We also had a little of these ironic exhortations.

    http://artpoisk.info/files/images/24741.jpg

    Some reminders on time management:

    https://www.historyworlds.ru/uploads/gallery/main/261/375.jpg


    The Chinese signs are missing our social pressure component though:

    http://www.plakaty.ru/upload/iblock/1d7/1d77f43a263742b4060446e6cd6aa73f.jpg?timestamp=1527114267547

    The word “harmony” like the colors green and red being worn there, are all of ritual and essentially religious significance. Trying to explain it in a purely secular way wouldn’t work. In a way, its a decent example of the transcendent or traces of premodern spirituality/superstition that permeates even day to day Chinese life.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB

    its a decent example of the transcendent or traces of premodern spirituality/superstition that permeates even day to day Chinese life.
     
    And the source of your current superiority to us.

    May you never lose it :)

    And may we swiftly regain it.

    I shall do my small part - but it would be nice if you Chinese took pity on us and lent us a helping hand.
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  107. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    But Africans function normally, command multiple languages fluently and excel in any endeavor no matter how intellectually rigorous
     
    Apart from Ayan Hirsi Ali and that Mo Farah bloke (who can run fast, big intellectual achievement), the only newsstories about Somalis I can recall concern things like gang rape or other horrible crimes, piracy and the fact that Somalia is one of the most failed countries on earth. How do these people excel in anything, except crime and welfare dependency in the Western countries stupid enough to let them in?

    gang rape or other horrible crimes, piracy

    Yes, but they excel at these difficult tasks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Gang rape isn't an intellectually demanding task though. I suppose piracy does require some organizational skills however.
    The annoying African may even have a point that the IQ data for dysfunctional countries like Somalia may not have a solid basis. That's irrelevant however. There's enough experience with Somalis in Western countries now to know that in general they're horrible, useless (highest unemployment rate in the UK iirc) and parasitical people who should never be allowed to immigrate.
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  108. inertial says:
    @Jaakko Raipala
    Ever since Crimea there has been an absolutely massive fear mongering propaganda push over Russia. They have a certain set of recurring narratives with no historical precedent like "Russia wants Gotland to control the Baltic Sea" that are nevertheless presented by pro-NATO "experts" as factual expositions of Russian strategic planning. There is next to no criticism of this ridiculous fear mongering in the Swedish media.

    The fear propaganda is working in Sweden but curiously not in Finland - support for NATO has increased in Sweden but dropped in Finland. (I used to be pro-NATO but I can clearly see that we are being manipulated into something and that can't be good.)

    Way before the term SJW, Finnish internet used the meme "former Stalinist". A journalist who was previously known for his pro-Soviet opinions kept presenting the United States as an example of successful multiculturalism in a TV debate and a confused nationalist asked "wait a minute, why are you praising America, aren't you a Stalinist?". He was slightly taken aback but then declared himself a "former Stalinist" on the spot, sparking years of memes about "former Stalinists" who all now push for NATO membership, russophobia, immigration and worship of magic communist negroes as our new moral leaders.

    What has been happening to the West since the 1960s is really a slow motion Bolshevik revolution. It's not "cultural Marxism", it's just Marxism. They are the same people who took over Russia in 1917 who haven't even changed their beliefs, only their tactics. Russia may have lost the Cold War but the Reds won.

    Instapundit links to a photo of an American tank in Finland doing live-fire exercises with the Finnish army. According to the post and the comments, the Finns expect a Russian invasion any minute now…

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    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    Seems to be mostly American patriotards in that thread complaining about why they would defend Finland. Well, I wouldn't defend Finland either if it's going to be a country that invites American tanks on its soil. If you have the military of a Great Power in your country, it inevitably means that your politics gets rewritten according to their desires and the American tanks come together with American NGOs that promote multiculturalism, poz and anti-nationhood.

    I think the traitors in charge are so stupid that they don't even see where this is going. If Russia gets some revanchist in charge after Putin and they actually decide to re-annex Finland, I think our politicians will be honestly surprised how few Finns will show up to defend this state after they've spent decades telling us that nationalism is evil, patriotism is low class, Finnish people and culture don't exist and everything has come from the outside, Christianity is a ridiculous belief system so we must welcome Islam, national borders are outdated blah blah blah.

    And it all started when the USSR collapsed and Finland aligned with the West. It was embarrassing to be a Soviet puppet state but having our politicians praise Stalin for 50 years was an embarrassment without permanent consequences, this demographic destruction that the West promotes is far worse.
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  109. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    The word "harmony" like the colors green and red being worn there, are all of ritual and essentially religious significance. Trying to explain it in a purely secular way wouldn't work. In a way, its a decent example of the transcendent or traces of premodern spirituality/superstition that permeates even day to day Chinese life.

    its a decent example of the transcendent or traces of premodern spirituality/superstition that permeates even day to day Chinese life.

    And the source of your current superiority to us.

    May you never lose it :)

    And may we swiftly regain it.

    I shall do my small part – but it would be nice if you Chinese took pity on us and lent us a helping hand.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I'm actually pretty skeptical of China(I really dislike impediments on free speech as a principle). The best that I can feel about it sometimes is that it seems to make slightly fewer mistakes.

    Really until it can fix itself back to 2.0 TFR or so, its not really in a great position to tell anyone anything.

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  110. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    But Africans function normally, command multiple languages fluently and excel in any endeavor no matter how intellectually rigorous
     
    Apart from Ayan Hirsi Ali and that Mo Farah bloke (who can run fast, big intellectual achievement), the only newsstories about Somalis I can recall concern things like gang rape or other horrible crimes, piracy and the fact that Somalia is one of the most failed countries on earth. How do these people excel in anything, except crime and welfare dependency in the Western countries stupid enough to let them in?

    And Ayan Hirsi Ali lied to gain asylum.

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  111. @AaronB

    its a decent example of the transcendent or traces of premodern spirituality/superstition that permeates even day to day Chinese life.
     
    And the source of your current superiority to us.

    May you never lose it :)

    And may we swiftly regain it.

    I shall do my small part - but it would be nice if you Chinese took pity on us and lent us a helping hand.

    I’m actually pretty skeptical of China(I really dislike impediments on free speech as a principle). The best that I can feel about it sometimes is that it seems to make slightly fewer mistakes.

    Really until it can fix itself back to 2.0 TFR or so, its not really in a great position to tell anyone anything.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    True, true, true. I forget that sometimes. You are better than us but not in the best state yourself. You have to fix yourselves first.

    We're just so hopeless that I sometimes think an outside power needs to help us - make us snap out of it.

    In the end we'll have to fix ourselves also. We'll do it. Patience, and the long game.
    , @Wis98
    What makes you think that Chinese are any less suceptible to liberalism or thinking the trannies are female than Whites? Remember Taiwan and gay marriage?
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  112. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I'm actually pretty skeptical of China(I really dislike impediments on free speech as a principle). The best that I can feel about it sometimes is that it seems to make slightly fewer mistakes.

    Really until it can fix itself back to 2.0 TFR or so, its not really in a great position to tell anyone anything.

    True, true, true. I forget that sometimes. You are better than us but not in the best state yourself. You have to fix yourselves first.

    We’re just so hopeless that I sometimes think an outside power needs to help us – make us snap out of it.

    In the end we’ll have to fix ourselves also. We’ll do it. Patience, and the long game.

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  113. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    But Africans function normally, command multiple languages fluently and excel in any endeavor no matter how intellectually rigorous
     
    Apart from Ayan Hirsi Ali and that Mo Farah bloke (who can run fast, big intellectual achievement), the only newsstories about Somalis I can recall concern things like gang rape or other horrible crimes, piracy and the fact that Somalia is one of the most failed countries on earth. How do these people excel in anything, except crime and welfare dependency in the Western countries stupid enough to let them in?

    To be fair, they did a pretty a good job on the ‘Cyborgs’ of Donetsk airport.

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  114. Bliss says:
    @Okechukwu

    I’d put anything built in Europe against anything built by the Bantu any day. What do you want to compare to Great Zimbabwe? The Parthenon? The Pantheon? St. Paul’s Cathedral?
     
    But the Europeans who would later unleash the destructive forces of white supremacy didn't build any of those things. They were barbarian savages by the standards of the times. Europe is a social construct, little more than a line on a map. The builders of those structures would not identify themselves with European barbarians, nor would they embrace any sort of ethnic or cultural affinity with the same barbarians. Moreover, it was the civilizational spark from the aforementioned Egyptians and Nubians that radiated up to the Ancient Greeks and Romans and heavily influenced their own achievements.

    Nuclear weapons, when used properly, are tools of peace. I’m not losing any sleep about the Ruskies pointing their missiles at me; actually, it makes me sleep better.
     
    Those weapons will be used one day. It's inevitable. Then you won't sleep so well.

    The pace of migration which taking place now is totally unprecedented. It is not equaled before in history.
     
    That's absurd. Once again, Europeans have occupied entire continents. Today's immigration is a barely perceptible trickle by comparison.

    I don’t recall anyone welcoming Europeans as warmly as they expect to be welcomed either.
     
    Where in the world or in Africa are Europeans unwelcome? Usually Europeans are given red carpet treatment in the developing world. White privilege doesn't only exist in white countries. I have an Iraqi business associate who takes a white guy with him to all his meetings in the Middle East. The white guy just sits there and says nothing. Why? Because white privilege is a global phenomenon. My associate gains instant gravitas simply by having a white guy present.

    Certainly no welfare for the Swedes in New Sweden.
     
    The Swedes were given free land and all manner of assistance upon arrival in America. Black Americans who had been here for hundreds of years slaving away were not afforded the same opportunities.

    But the Europeans who would later unleash the destructive forces of white supremacy didn’t build any of those things. They were barbarian savages by the standards of the times. Europe is a social construct, little more than a line on a map. The builders of those structures would not identify themselves with European barbarians, nor would they embrace any sort of ethnic or cultural affinity with the same barbarians. Moreover, it was the civilizational spark from the aforementioned Egyptians and Nubians that radiated up to the Ancient Greeks and Romans and heavily influenced their own achievements.

    Very true. But that does not stop these folks from claiming to be the real Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans. And more.

    The Swedes were given free land and all manner of assistance upon arrival in America. Black Americans who had been here for hundreds of years slaving away were not afforded the same opportunities.

    Exactly. Not just the Swedes but also the Norwegians, Germans etc. The Italians, Irish, Slavs etc were excluded from these handouts.

    African-Americans were promised 40 acres and a mule. Of course that didn’t happen.

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    • Agree: Okechukwu
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Very true. But that does not stop these folks from claiming to be the real Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans.
     
    Only Europeans who claim the ancient Egyptians as their own are fringe white nationalist people, it's not a mainstream view even among nationalists.
    Identification with the Romans is of course completely legitimate for Italians and other Romance peoples, and in a cultural sense for Northern Europeans as well, given the importance of the Roman legacy for Europe. Most Northerners are well aware of their "barbarian" background though and identify to some extent with Celts, Germanics, Slavs.

    Exactly. Not just the Swedes but also the Norwegians, Germans etc. The Italians, Irish, Slavs etc were excluded from these handouts.
     
    Source for that, or is it just a myth about the innate evil of Anglo-Saxons/Nordics?
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  115. Bliss says:
    @utu

    I’m interested in facts and empirical science.
     
    Good you adopted one of the most important value of Western civilization. Stick to it.

    Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

    We find that ancient Egyptians are most closely related to Neolithic and Bronze Age samples in the Levant, as well as to Neolithic Anatolian and European populations (Fig. 5a,b). When comparing this pattern with modern Egyptians, we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested
     

    Mummy DNA unravels ancient Egyptians’ ancestry
    Genetic analysis reveals a close relationship with Middle Easterners, not central Africans.
    https://www.nature.com/news/mummy-dna-unravels-ancient-egyptians-ancestry-1.22069

    Both types of genomic material showed that ancient Egyptians shared little DNA with modern sub-Saharan Africans. Instead, their closest relatives were people living during the Neolithic and Bronze ages in an area known as the Levant. Strikingly, the mummies were more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians.
     
    Can you stop this nonsense about ancient Egypt as if it had any connection with the so-called Africans meaning the sub-Sahara Africans. The concept of Africa is relatively new. It is a construct made by Greeks which were Europeans. Egypt used to be considered to be a part of Asia until Ptolemy. It is a construct. Just like the eastern border of Europe is a construct. The term Africa referred to Northern Africa. Ask anybody who lives there now if they are Africans in the same sense as your people, i.e., sub Sahara Africans like Nigerians and they will bluntly tell you that they have nothing in common with Kaffirs like you and are sorry that they have to share a continent with you. Go to Libya, which is also in Africa and you may end up on the slave auction. Yes, slave auction in Africa run by Africans in 2018. This nonsense about Africa and Egypt you shamelessly bring up here can on fly among some semantically confuse Afro-Americans.

    Unfortunately for you:

    http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his311/notes/herod.htm

    The Greek writer Herodotus was best early source on Africa. Little is known about his life. Herodotus was born in Halicarnassus (modern Bodrun) on the southwest coast of Asia Minor, around 480BC, at a time when Halicarnassus was under the rule of a Persian Satrap, a woman named Artemisia.

    Herodotus believed that the Colchians (southern Black Sea area) were introduced to Asia by Egyptian expansion as far as Thrace and Scythia because “they have black skins and curly hair (not that that amounts to much, as other nations have the same).” [Herodotus, Histories, 167.] They also practised circumcision, unlike Mediterranean peoples of the time.

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    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    You're a lot better at this than Tiny Duck. Have you been learning from Corvinus?
    , @utu

    Unfortunately to [DNA results]
     
    Do not manipulate by reversing chronology. Recent DNA results are 'unfortunate'to those who based their hypothesis on sources like Herodotus before DNA testing existed not the other way around. Now fortunately with DNA results we can retire the audacious and valiant hypothesis of Cheikh Anta Diop which never was adopted by majority of historians though for obvious reason was attractive to some Africans.
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  116. Bliss says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Picking Somalia is like picking the poorest region in China to represent China.
     
    Would probably actually be Congo or Niger or Liberia.

    Apart from the chronic anarchism, Somalia doesn't seem to be the worst. Eastern Africans in general seem to be doing better than Western Africans.

    Still, I'd certainly pick Gansu or Hebei or whatever the poorest Chinese province is, to Congo or Somalia or even Ethiopia (and I'm relatively upbeat on Ethiopia).

    Eastern Africans in general seem to be doing better than Western Africans.

    Not really. Nigeria has around 3 times the per capita income (nominal) of Ethiopia with around 2 times the population. Here’s a nice video about the Nigerian city of Lagos, the most populous city in all of Africa:

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    • Replies: @Bliss
    On the other hand Ethiopia is growing its economy faster than Nigeria.

    Here’s a quick look at most all the countries in Africa:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfG-5ZhI3wk
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  117. @songbird

    But the Europeans who would later unleash the destructive forces of white supremacy didn’t build any of those things. They were barbarian savages by the standards of the times.
     
    I must admit, you have lost me here. Are you speaking of the Nazis? They were not particularly known for good architecture, at least not in a critical way. But they did built many impressive things: jet engines and rockets. Germans as a whole certainly built many impressive things. For instance, Cologne Cathedral. In many cities, the average person can't even keep track of all the old, impressive churches. I wouldn't say that Nazis were white supremacists though - they did not like the Slavs. They thought Italians were a joke. There's not a lot of overlap with them and nationalists in general.

    The Parthenon was built in 447 BC. It beats anything the Bantu ever designed and built up to the current moment. There is even a lot before that which does. The Treasury of Atreus was built about 1250 BC, and is probably more impressive than anything the Bantu built. Newgrange was built about 3200 BC, it is older than the pyramids. Not quite as impressive, but I'm not too sure a giant limestone structure would stand up to 5,000 years of winters, or rain. Not sure, it is really a great use of labor either. Seems kind of megalomaniacal. Europe didn't have the same population either because of climate. Still, I wouldn't put down their early contributions either. The wheel is pretty useful, so is the horse. Africans didn't really domesticate any useful animals.

    Europe is a social construct, little more than a line on a map.
     

    Did the Bantu even have maps?

    Today’s immigration is a barely perceptible trickle by comparison.
     

    Is that what it is called when lines of people snake over the horizon?

    Where in the world or in Africa are Europeans unwelcome?
     

    Zimbabwe. South Africa. North Africa. Really, anywhere they are not in the majority, if their numbers actually seem to be growing.

    Black Americans who had been here for hundreds of years slaving away were not afforded the same opportunities.
     
    The Bantu got plenty of free land, when they killed the San and Khoi. They didn't seem to do much with it though.

    the Nazis? They were not particularly known for good architecture

    I disagree.

    I think the Nazi architecture (really, Hitler’s architecture – architecture being his hobby, he personally overlooked the planning of all major buildings) was impressive. The Reich Chancellery building had to be demolished, because they thought it would be too impressive and thus preserve Hitler’s name or something. The building of the Reich Aviation Ministry was also impressive (and modernist – Hitler thought that only a modern building was good enough for such a modern function), it still stands to this day (housing the German ministry of finance).

    But most of what they were planning to build never got built. The usual criticism is that these plans were megalomaniacal, typical of a totalitarian dictatorship like Nazi Germany. Well, I guess that’s the reason why no skyscrapers were ever built in democratic countries – they just look too megalomaniacal.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    I don't think what they built was ugly exactly, and the interiors were probably better looking. But it is hard to like it in the backdrop of much better looking buildings in Germany. Berlin hadn't been devastated in WWI, so a lot of the old architecture was still around. They probably even tore a few good-looking buildings down to build what they built.
    , @dfordoom

    I think the Nazi architecture (really, Hitler’s architecture – architecture being his hobby, he personally overlooked the planning of all major buildings) was impressive.
     
    You can accuse the Nazis of many things but they had a fine aesthetic sense. Especially when compared to the unremitting ugliness and horror of the aesthetics that liberalism has led to.
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  118. Bliss says:
    @Bliss

    Eastern Africans in general seem to be doing better than Western Africans.
     
    Not really. Nigeria has around 3 times the per capita income (nominal) of Ethiopia with around 2 times the population. Here’s a nice video about the Nigerian city of Lagos, the most populous city in all of Africa:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HbsdLI8kaWc

    On the other hand Ethiopia is growing its economy faster than Nigeria.

    Here’s a quick look at most all the countries in Africa:

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  119. Pericles says:
    @Beckow
    So you could say that Russians invaded Finland, but nor really Sweden as it is today; the 'Swedish' Sweden, not its colonies or dependencies. Finland should really belong to the Finns, 'losing it' is an odd way to describe it.

    I didn't know about Russian army crossing into Sweden proper in the north, thanks for enlightening me. It does seem rather minor.

    So you could say that Russians invaded Finland, but nor really Sweden as it is today

    Huh? What I’m saying is they obviously were in Sweden too.

    Finland should really belong to the Finns, ‘losing it’ is an odd way to describe it.

    Finland was part of Sweden for about 600 years before that so I don’t find it that odd.

    Anyway, there you have the background.

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  120. Wis98 says: • Website
    @Daniel Chieh
    I'm actually pretty skeptical of China(I really dislike impediments on free speech as a principle). The best that I can feel about it sometimes is that it seems to make slightly fewer mistakes.

    Really until it can fix itself back to 2.0 TFR or so, its not really in a great position to tell anyone anything.

    What makes you think that Chinese are any less suceptible to liberalism or thinking the trannies are female than Whites? Remember Taiwan and gay marriage?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Well, as the Cultural Revolution and Mao's Magic Mangos show, the Chinese aren't immune from insane signaling spirals although it can be muted in some areas by a natural conservativism which I think is promoted by the written language as reserve of culture; however, in this case, its more that the absurd liberal values and signaling points serve as Schelling Points for power grabs by status maximizers in a demotic environment and promoted from NGOs including the infamous Open Society Foundation(Soros' baby). Hungary's crackdown on NGOs has also helped them against liberal influence, for example.

    Simply by evicting foreign NGOs from their infiltration, and secondarily by having secure power such that signaling for gheys does not form a point to rally from, such absurdities are curbed. But I do generally believe that anywhere that NGOs are allowed to operate unhindered and the power structures are highly demotic, that East Asian culture is not really much of a hinderance(South Korea, for another example).

    Taiwan itself is essentially a corpse of a society, or soon there. Its effectively getting pwnt by both the US and China simultaneously, and its population engage in positively hopeful discussions such as "we are going to be overrun in ten years? Or maybe thirty!" It should be put out of its misery.
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  121. @Bliss
    Unfortunately for you:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_May_2015.JPG/1200px-Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_May_2015.JPG


    http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his311/notes/herod.htm

    The Greek writer Herodotus was best early source on Africa. Little is known about his life. Herodotus was born in Halicarnassus (modern Bodrun) on the southwest coast of Asia Minor, around 480BC, at a time when Halicarnassus was under the rule of a Persian Satrap, a woman named Artemisia.

    Herodotus believed that the Colchians (southern Black Sea area) were introduced to Asia by Egyptian expansion as far as Thrace and Scythia because "they have black skins and curly hair (not that that amounts to much, as other nations have the same)." [Herodotus, Histories, 167.] They also practised circumcision, unlike Mediterranean peoples of the time.

    You’re a lot better at this than Tiny Duck. Have you been learning from Corvinus?

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  122. utu says:
    @Bliss
    Unfortunately for you:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_May_2015.JPG/1200px-Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_May_2015.JPG


    http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his311/notes/herod.htm

    The Greek writer Herodotus was best early source on Africa. Little is known about his life. Herodotus was born in Halicarnassus (modern Bodrun) on the southwest coast of Asia Minor, around 480BC, at a time when Halicarnassus was under the rule of a Persian Satrap, a woman named Artemisia.

    Herodotus believed that the Colchians (southern Black Sea area) were introduced to Asia by Egyptian expansion as far as Thrace and Scythia because "they have black skins and curly hair (not that that amounts to much, as other nations have the same)." [Herodotus, Histories, 167.] They also practised circumcision, unlike Mediterranean peoples of the time.

    Unfortunately to [DNA results]

    Do not manipulate by reversing chronology. Recent DNA results are ‘unfortunate’to those who based their hypothesis on sources like Herodotus before DNA testing existed not the other way around. Now fortunately with DNA results we can retire the audacious and valiant hypothesis of Cheikh Anta Diop which never was adopted by majority of historians though for obvious reason was attractive to some Africans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    Yeah, I can just see some pinkish Northern European types running around shirtless in the Egyptian sun. Meanwhile, their brethren were more or less cavemen back in Europe. That makes absolutely no sense.

    If you read the caveats, disclaimers and peer reviews attached to the study you are referring to, you will quickly discover that you are the one attempting to make an emphatic determination based on faulty and insufficient data. Given the eventual polyethnic nature of Ancient Egypt, one can find virtually anything one is looking for in the genetic and anthropological records. A future examination of United States specimens will yield similar results. But that would tell us nothing as to who were the original inhabitants of the United States.

    All available evidence, including artwork and statuary, point to a black African origin of Ancient Egypt.

    I also mentioned Nubia in my OP. Nubian civilization actually predates and informed Egypt's. Let me guess, you believe they were white too.
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  123. @Anon

    gang rape or other horrible crimes, piracy
     
    Yes, but they excel at these difficult tasks.

    Gang rape isn’t an intellectually demanding task though. I suppose piracy does require some organizational skills however.
    The annoying African may even have a point that the IQ data for dysfunctional countries like Somalia may not have a solid basis. That’s irrelevant however. There’s enough experience with Somalis in Western countries now to know that in general they’re horrible, useless (highest unemployment rate in the UK iirc) and parasitical people who should never be allowed to immigrate.

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    • Replies: @songbird

    The annoying African may even have a point that the IQ data for dysfunctional countries like Somalia may not have a solid basis.
     
    I'm sure living among whites boosts it a few points. They may even approach the black American average of 85, after a generation or two. That would still be problematic though.
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  124. @Bliss

    But the Europeans who would later unleash the destructive forces of white supremacy didn’t build any of those things. They were barbarian savages by the standards of the times. Europe is a social construct, little more than a line on a map. The builders of those structures would not identify themselves with European barbarians, nor would they embrace any sort of ethnic or cultural affinity with the same barbarians. Moreover, it was the civilizational spark from the aforementioned Egyptians and Nubians that radiated up to the Ancient Greeks and Romans and heavily influenced their own achievements.
     
    Very true. But that does not stop these folks from claiming to be the real Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans. And more.

    The Swedes were given free land and all manner of assistance upon arrival in America. Black Americans who had been here for hundreds of years slaving away were not afforded the same opportunities.
     
    Exactly. Not just the Swedes but also the Norwegians, Germans etc. The Italians, Irish, Slavs etc were excluded from these handouts.

    African-Americans were promised 40 acres and a mule. Of course that didn’t happen.

    Very true. But that does not stop these folks from claiming to be the real Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans.

    Only Europeans who claim the ancient Egyptians as their own are fringe white nationalist people, it’s not a mainstream view even among nationalists.
    Identification with the Romans is of course completely legitimate for Italians and other Romance peoples, and in a cultural sense for Northern Europeans as well, given the importance of the Roman legacy for Europe. Most Northerners are well aware of their “barbarian” background though and identify to some extent with Celts, Germanics, Slavs.

    Exactly. Not just the Swedes but also the Norwegians, Germans etc. The Italians, Irish, Slavs etc were excluded from these handouts.

    Source for that, or is it just a myth about the innate evil of Anglo-Saxons/Nordics?

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    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Free land was available through the Homestead Acts.

    No one was excluded other than rebels, and that includes blacks. Even women were eligible.

    I'm not sure why more Irish didn't take up homesteading (perhaps they'd had enough of farming in Ireland), but the Italians and Slavs largely arrived too late to take advantage of it. Some blacks did in fact take advantage.

    40 Acres and a Mule was a proposal by German Sherman, never official policy. There was no reason to reward Southern slaves in any case as they did next to nothing to assist the Union (surprise surprise) in the Civil War.

    Had 40 Acres and a Mule been implemented, the results would've been similar to the Georgia Land Lottery, only swifter. I assume nearly all blacks receiving 40 Acres and a Mule would've lost their farms within a generation, and Southern agricultural output would've dropped even more catastrophically than the irrational abolition of slavery already accomplished (1860 yields didn't return until 1890--thanks Lincoln).

    There's no sense arguing with negroes about this. Complete waste of time. In general getting any individual or group to plainly admit inferiority is a fool's errand.

    , @songbird
    I'm not really a booster of an ancient Egyptian connection to Europe. Only in a way there is a tangential one: most of what we know of them comes from the Greeks. The language could not be read without them. The chronology would not survive without them.

    I think it is fair for all Europeans to feel some pride in ancient Greek accomplishments, for we all share some of the same blood, whether that is Early European Farmer or not. Meanwhile, many Romans were basically flat out Northern Europeans. Rome is above the Hajnal line, and many Romans did not even come from Rome but from Northern Italy or other locations. Virgil, one of the greatest writers of all time, came from Mantua.

    But, of course, these ancient comparisons are somewhat tendentious. The only interesting things blacks built in Africa are in NE Africa - in Ethiopia and Sudan where there is the most Eurasian genetic inflow. The Bantu built nothing interesting whatsoever, unless you count Great Zimbabwe, and it is not really that great, and far exceeded by things built hundreds of years previously in Northern Europe.
    , @Bliss

    Only Europeans who claim the ancient Egyptians as their own are fringe white nationalist people
     
    They certainly aren’t the fringe in this forum.

    Source for that, or is it just a myth about the innate evil of Anglo-Saxons/Nordics?
     
    No one is calling the Germans and Scandinavians who immigrated to the Midwest for the free land on offer, evil. They were looking for a better life for their families. Just as the current immigrants to Germany and Scandinavia are.
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  125. Anonymous[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Best Korea has the most hardcore conscription, and Cicerone recently pointed out that this year they might have more births than South Korea for probably the first time ever. This is amazing, given their populations (23 million vs. 52 million, as I recall).

    Israel has the world's second most hardcore conscription. Highest TFR of any developed nation, with 8 million people, will have 75% of the number of births of 40 million Poland.

    Many of the Scandinavian countries and Russia retain conscription, have (relatively) okay TFRs. Ofc Russia's were catastrophic in the 1990s-early 2000s, but there were other factors at play. The USSR and the commie bloc in general, all with conscription systems, had good TFRs that did not collapse in the 1970s like in Western Europe.

    What's wrong with South Korea? My guesses:

    1. Reaching the nadir of their demographic transition, as happened in e.g. USA/Europe during the 1970s-80s;

    2. Feminism, faggotry etc. promoted by American influence;

    3. Extreme overwork (2500 hours per year);

    4. Low female participation in workforce indicating that combining family with career in impractical (realistically speaking, you have to do that, unless you go hardcore whi- yellow sharia mode);

    5. Wages are not particularly high - similar to Greece/Portugal, as I recall, despite the ridiculous overwork and obviously much more hi-tech nature of the Korean economy.

    2. Feminism, faggotry etc. promoted by American influence;

    Never seen a clear explanation for how the prominence of gays in culture leads to fertility declines.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Gays invented "dating". Think about that one for a second.

    More direct impacts including:

    1 - More women choose to become lesbian (lesbianism is fake as all women are bisexual)
    2 - Homo-sexual males choose no longer marry women and reproduce with them
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  126. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson
    Japan's figures are actually not that bad. Consider:

    • The country is in East Asia
    • The country has very few immigrants or people of immigrant origin (note: South Korea now has quite a lot)
    • The country has been prosperous for a long time
    • The country in this century has gone from Italian levels of female workforce participation to above American levels

    Japan might even have a higher TFR than some white nations once you strip out the TFR of the invaders. Note that it's comparable to Finland (few invaders until quite recently) and Scotland (98% white)

    Obviously TFR of 1.43 and Japan is making a number of wrong moves, but this speaks to some sort of resilience in Japan which doesn't exist elsewhere among confucian orientals.

    As for what's wrong with South Korea, perhaps one of our oriental commenters can answer. From the outside two things stand out:

    • The plastic surgery obsession
    • The decision to embrace multiculturalism and immigration (Global Korea, dropping the pledge to the Han race)

    South Korea's conscription might unintentionally contribute. It gives women a head start in the workforce, thereby inflating their earning power over men of the same age cohort. As women want to marry up and orientals are famously materialistic, this could have a materially negative impact on family formation.

    I suggest comparative demography between conscription countries to volunteer countries as a research topic.

    South Korea has a lot of Chinese migrants of Korean background. The East Asian country that is swamped by forced multiculturalism is Hong Kong. 20,000 asylum seekers and counting. Imposed on it by its common law courts.

    Read More
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  127. @Wis98
    What makes you think that Chinese are any less suceptible to liberalism or thinking the trannies are female than Whites? Remember Taiwan and gay marriage?

    Well, as the Cultural Revolution and Mao’s Magic Mangos show, the Chinese aren’t immune from insane signaling spirals although it can be muted in some areas by a natural conservativism which I think is promoted by the written language as reserve of culture; however, in this case, its more that the absurd liberal values and signaling points serve as Schelling Points for power grabs by status maximizers in a demotic environment and promoted from NGOs including the infamous Open Society Foundation(Soros’ baby). Hungary’s crackdown on NGOs has also helped them against liberal influence, for example.

    Simply by evicting foreign NGOs from their infiltration, and secondarily by having secure power such that signaling for gheys does not form a point to rally from, such absurdities are curbed. But I do generally believe that anywhere that NGOs are allowed to operate unhindered and the power structures are highly demotic, that East Asian culture is not really much of a hinderance(South Korea, for another example).

    Taiwan itself is essentially a corpse of a society, or soon there. Its effectively getting pwnt by both the US and China simultaneously, and its population engage in positively hopeful discussions such as “we are going to be overrun in ten years? Or maybe thirty!” It should be put out of its misery.

    Read More
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  128. @German_reader

    Very true. But that does not stop these folks from claiming to be the real Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans.
     
    Only Europeans who claim the ancient Egyptians as their own are fringe white nationalist people, it's not a mainstream view even among nationalists.
    Identification with the Romans is of course completely legitimate for Italians and other Romance peoples, and in a cultural sense for Northern Europeans as well, given the importance of the Roman legacy for Europe. Most Northerners are well aware of their "barbarian" background though and identify to some extent with Celts, Germanics, Slavs.

    Exactly. Not just the Swedes but also the Norwegians, Germans etc. The Italians, Irish, Slavs etc were excluded from these handouts.
     
    Source for that, or is it just a myth about the innate evil of Anglo-Saxons/Nordics?

    Free land was available through the Homestead Acts.

    No one was excluded other than rebels, and that includes blacks. Even women were eligible.

    I’m not sure why more Irish didn’t take up homesteading (perhaps they’d had enough of farming in Ireland), but the Italians and Slavs largely arrived too late to take advantage of it. Some blacks did in fact take advantage.

    40 Acres and a Mule was a proposal by German Sherman, never official policy. There was no reason to reward Southern slaves in any case as they did next to nothing to assist the Union (surprise surprise) in the Civil War.

    Had 40 Acres and a Mule been implemented, the results would’ve been similar to the Georgia Land Lottery, only swifter. I assume nearly all blacks receiving 40 Acres and a Mule would’ve lost their farms within a generation, and Southern agricultural output would’ve dropped even more catastrophically than the irrational abolition of slavery already accomplished (1860 yields didn’t return until 1890–thanks Lincoln).

    There’s no sense arguing with negroes about this. Complete waste of time. In general getting any individual or group to plainly admit inferiority is a fool’s errand.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    but the Italians and Slavs largely arrived too late to take advantage of it
     
    The Western frontier was officially closed in the 1890s, wasn't it? I suppose most Italians and Slavs did indeed arrive after that.
    But as I suspected, Bliss' claim of Nordic discrimination against other whites is factually incorrect.
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  129. @Anonymous

    2. Feminism, faggotry etc. promoted by American influence;
     
    Never seen a clear explanation for how the prominence of gays in culture leads to fertility declines.

    Gays invented “dating”. Think about that one for a second.

    More direct impacts including:

    1 – More women choose to become lesbian (lesbianism is fake as all women are bisexual)
    2 – Homo-sexual males choose no longer marry women and reproduce with them

    Read More
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  130. songbird says:
    @German_reader
    Gang rape isn't an intellectually demanding task though. I suppose piracy does require some organizational skills however.
    The annoying African may even have a point that the IQ data for dysfunctional countries like Somalia may not have a solid basis. That's irrelevant however. There's enough experience with Somalis in Western countries now to know that in general they're horrible, useless (highest unemployment rate in the UK iirc) and parasitical people who should never be allowed to immigrate.

    The annoying African may even have a point that the IQ data for dysfunctional countries like Somalia may not have a solid basis.

    I’m sure living among whites boosts it a few points. They may even approach the black American average of 85, after a generation or two. That would still be problematic though.

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  131. songbird says:
    @reiner Tor

    the Nazis? They were not particularly known for good architecture
     
    I disagree.

    I think the Nazi architecture (really, Hitler’s architecture - architecture being his hobby, he personally overlooked the planning of all major buildings) was impressive. The Reich Chancellery building had to be demolished, because they thought it would be too impressive and thus preserve Hitler’s name or something. The building of the Reich Aviation Ministry was also impressive (and modernist - Hitler thought that only a modern building was good enough for such a modern function), it still stands to this day (housing the German ministry of finance).

    But most of what they were planning to build never got built. The usual criticism is that these plans were megalomaniacal, typical of a totalitarian dictatorship like Nazi Germany. Well, I guess that’s the reason why no skyscrapers were ever built in democratic countries - they just look too megalomaniacal.

    I don’t think what they built was ugly exactly, and the interiors were probably better looking. But it is hard to like it in the backdrop of much better looking buildings in Germany. Berlin hadn’t been devastated in WWI, so a lot of the old architecture was still around. They probably even tore a few good-looking buildings down to build what they built.

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  132. @Thorfinnsson
    Free land was available through the Homestead Acts.

    No one was excluded other than rebels, and that includes blacks. Even women were eligible.

    I'm not sure why more Irish didn't take up homesteading (perhaps they'd had enough of farming in Ireland), but the Italians and Slavs largely arrived too late to take advantage of it. Some blacks did in fact take advantage.

    40 Acres and a Mule was a proposal by German Sherman, never official policy. There was no reason to reward Southern slaves in any case as they did next to nothing to assist the Union (surprise surprise) in the Civil War.

    Had 40 Acres and a Mule been implemented, the results would've been similar to the Georgia Land Lottery, only swifter. I assume nearly all blacks receiving 40 Acres and a Mule would've lost their farms within a generation, and Southern agricultural output would've dropped even more catastrophically than the irrational abolition of slavery already accomplished (1860 yields didn't return until 1890--thanks Lincoln).

    There's no sense arguing with negroes about this. Complete waste of time. In general getting any individual or group to plainly admit inferiority is a fool's errand.

    but the Italians and Slavs largely arrived too late to take advantage of it

    The Western frontier was officially closed in the 1890s, wasn’t it? I suppose most Italians and Slavs did indeed arrive after that.
    But as I suspected, Bliss’ claim of Nordic discrimination against other whites is factually incorrect.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    It was never "closed" per se, it just ended. The frontier was a continuous line which moved westward as Americans expanded, and it was defined by population density (fewer than two inhabitants per square mile). In 1890 this line broke up.

    There was still more land to be homesteaded, primarily in the very dry southern great plains. This got homesteaded in the early 20th century. The land was basically dry pasture and unsuitable for agriculture. So dry the farmers had to practice "deep plough" farming.

    These farms were all destroyed during the horrific Dust Bowl under the Great Depression. The farmers lost everything and their towns collapsed into ghost towns, which you can still visit today. The farmers went bankrupt and mostly migrated to California as desperate landless laborers in the middle of the Depression, as dramatized in John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath.

    There's a very good museum in Denver dedicated to this.

    You can compare it to the USSR's failed Virgin Lands campaign, but with a much worse outcome for the farmers since they bore all the risk personally.

    The Italians and Slavs who did not homestead this land should be grateful.

    Homesteading officially ended in 1976, and in Alaska in 1986. Mainly because of environmentalist control freaks, and possibly some corporate interests as well (i.e. desire to underpay for grazing, timber, mineral rights).

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  133. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    Very true. But that does not stop these folks from claiming to be the real Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans.
     
    Only Europeans who claim the ancient Egyptians as their own are fringe white nationalist people, it's not a mainstream view even among nationalists.
    Identification with the Romans is of course completely legitimate for Italians and other Romance peoples, and in a cultural sense for Northern Europeans as well, given the importance of the Roman legacy for Europe. Most Northerners are well aware of their "barbarian" background though and identify to some extent with Celts, Germanics, Slavs.

    Exactly. Not just the Swedes but also the Norwegians, Germans etc. The Italians, Irish, Slavs etc were excluded from these handouts.
     
    Source for that, or is it just a myth about the innate evil of Anglo-Saxons/Nordics?

    I’m not really a booster of an ancient Egyptian connection to Europe. Only in a way there is a tangential one: most of what we know of them comes from the Greeks. The language could not be read without them. The chronology would not survive without them.

    I think it is fair for all Europeans to feel some pride in ancient Greek accomplishments, for we all share some of the same blood, whether that is Early European Farmer or not. Meanwhile, many Romans were basically flat out Northern Europeans. Rome is above the Hajnal line, and many Romans did not even come from Rome but from Northern Italy or other locations. Virgil, one of the greatest writers of all time, came from Mantua.

    But, of course, these ancient comparisons are somewhat tendentious. The only interesting things blacks built in Africa are in NE Africa – in Ethiopia and Sudan where there is the most Eurasian genetic inflow. The Bantu built nothing interesting whatsoever, unless you count Great Zimbabwe, and it is not really that great, and far exceeded by things built hundreds of years previously in Northern Europe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    The language could not be read without them. The chronology would not survive without them.
     
    I'm not sure that's true, apart from the fact that the multilingual Rosetta stone was crucial for the decipherment of hieroglyphics. Coptic (if I understand correctly a direct descendant of the ancient Egyptians' language) did survive until modern times after all, and had a significant literary tradition, I suppose without that reading ancient Egyptian texts would have been impossible.
    Doesn't chronology depend (apart from inscriptions) on the works of Manetho who supposedly was a native Egyptian priest?

    I think it is fair for all Europeans to feel some pride in ancient Greek accomplishments, for we all share some of the same blood, whether that is Early European Farmer or not.
     
    I'd actually admit that Bliss and the annoying African are to some extent correct insofar as the ancient Greeks were in close contact with the older civilizations of the Mideast (Mesopotamia, Phoenicians etc.) and Egypt, with significant cultural exchange. The Greeks were generally xenophobic, but it's probably true that they would have felt more in common with a Persian than with invading Celts who were just seen as alien, savage barbarians.
    That being said, since the Greco-Roman heritage only survived, at least in fragments, in Europe I do think Europeans can legitimately regard Greco-Roman civilization as their own precursors.
    And none of this changes the fact that Bantu peoples have historically been civilizationally insignificant. Maybe that will change someday, but since even "intelligent" Africans seem to mostly obsess over the evil white man instead of actually dealing with their own problems I have my doubts.
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  134. @inertial
    Instapundit links to a photo of an American tank in Finland doing live-fire exercises with the Finnish army. According to the post and the comments, the Finns expect a Russian invasion any minute now...

    Seems to be mostly American patriotards in that thread complaining about why they would defend Finland. Well, I wouldn’t defend Finland either if it’s going to be a country that invites American tanks on its soil. If you have the military of a Great Power in your country, it inevitably means that your politics gets rewritten according to their desires and the American tanks come together with American NGOs that promote multiculturalism, poz and anti-nationhood.

    I think the traitors in charge are so stupid that they don’t even see where this is going. If Russia gets some revanchist in charge after Putin and they actually decide to re-annex Finland, I think our politicians will be honestly surprised how few Finns will show up to defend this state after they’ve spent decades telling us that nationalism is evil, patriotism is low class, Finnish people and culture don’t exist and everything has come from the outside, Christianity is a ridiculous belief system so we must welcome Islam, national borders are outdated blah blah blah.

    And it all started when the USSR collapsed and Finland aligned with the West. It was embarrassing to be a Soviet puppet state but having our politicians praise Stalin for 50 years was an embarrassment without permanent consequences, this demographic destruction that the West promotes is far worse.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Considering that Finland is a voluntary member of the EU, I don't think you can blame so much on the American occupation (even if this makes life more simple on the explanatory level).

    Japan is occupied by America, but they have only imported some compatible for them aspects of the American worldview like baseball, while otherwise maintaining significant distance in other cultural and intellectual aspects - more distance than with many non-aligning to American foreign policy countries (the Japanese create more distance from American culture, than our own culture does).

    (Although perhaps not a totally fair comparison since Japanese have the natural barrier of a very different language, which in Europe there is not).

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  135. @songbird
    I'm not really a booster of an ancient Egyptian connection to Europe. Only in a way there is a tangential one: most of what we know of them comes from the Greeks. The language could not be read without them. The chronology would not survive without them.

    I think it is fair for all Europeans to feel some pride in ancient Greek accomplishments, for we all share some of the same blood, whether that is Early European Farmer or not. Meanwhile, many Romans were basically flat out Northern Europeans. Rome is above the Hajnal line, and many Romans did not even come from Rome but from Northern Italy or other locations. Virgil, one of the greatest writers of all time, came from Mantua.

    But, of course, these ancient comparisons are somewhat tendentious. The only interesting things blacks built in Africa are in NE Africa - in Ethiopia and Sudan where there is the most Eurasian genetic inflow. The Bantu built nothing interesting whatsoever, unless you count Great Zimbabwe, and it is not really that great, and far exceeded by things built hundreds of years previously in Northern Europe.

    The language could not be read without them. The chronology would not survive without them.

    I’m not sure that’s true, apart from the fact that the multilingual Rosetta stone was crucial for the decipherment of hieroglyphics. Coptic (if I understand correctly a direct descendant of the ancient Egyptians’ language) did survive until modern times after all, and had a significant literary tradition, I suppose without that reading ancient Egyptian texts would have been impossible.
    Doesn’t chronology depend (apart from inscriptions) on the works of Manetho who supposedly was a native Egyptian priest?

    I think it is fair for all Europeans to feel some pride in ancient Greek accomplishments, for we all share some of the same blood, whether that is Early European Farmer or not.

    I’d actually admit that Bliss and the annoying African are to some extent correct insofar as the ancient Greeks were in close contact with the older civilizations of the Mideast (Mesopotamia, Phoenicians etc.) and Egypt, with significant cultural exchange. The Greeks were generally xenophobic, but it’s probably true that they would have felt more in common with a Persian than with invading Celts who were just seen as alien, savage barbarians.
    That being said, since the Greco-Roman heritage only survived, at least in fragments, in Europe I do think Europeans can legitimately regard Greco-Roman civilization as their own precursors.
    And none of this changes the fact that Bantu peoples have historically been civilizationally insignificant. Maybe that will change someday, but since even “intelligent” Africans seem to mostly obsess over the evil white man instead of actually dealing with their own problems I have my doubts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    Regarding Coptic, I believe that the grammar is similar, but I don't know how possible it would be to understand the text from that. The Copts used an alphabet derived from Greek and would not have understood hieroglyphs at all.

    Doesn’t chronology depend (apart from inscriptions) on the works of Manetho
     
    There's a bit of debate about that. To start with, if written by Manetho, it would have been commissioned by the Ptolemies. Surviving references to Manetho seem to have an odd gap away from when it was supposedly written. Some believe Manetho was invented to give the work more legitimacy, and it was actually written by a Greek named Ptolemy of Mendes, who was said to have written a history of ancient Egypt.

    But these are just arguments of fine points. There isn't any cultural continuation between ancient and modern Egypt. If they were more advanced in 2,000 BC, what did they do with their head start? Why did they not conquer Europe like the Greeks conquered Egypt? I don't think "where are your pyramids?" is a good deconstruction of Europe, and that is certainly what it is meant to be.
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  136. @German_reader

    but the Italians and Slavs largely arrived too late to take advantage of it
     
    The Western frontier was officially closed in the 1890s, wasn't it? I suppose most Italians and Slavs did indeed arrive after that.
    But as I suspected, Bliss' claim of Nordic discrimination against other whites is factually incorrect.

    It was never “closed” per se, it just ended. The frontier was a continuous line which moved westward as Americans expanded, and it was defined by population density (fewer than two inhabitants per square mile). In 1890 this line broke up.

    There was still more land to be homesteaded, primarily in the very dry southern great plains. This got homesteaded in the early 20th century. The land was basically dry pasture and unsuitable for agriculture. So dry the farmers had to practice “deep plough” farming.

    These farms were all destroyed during the horrific Dust Bowl under the Great Depression. The farmers lost everything and their towns collapsed into ghost towns, which you can still visit today. The farmers went bankrupt and mostly migrated to California as desperate landless laborers in the middle of the Depression, as dramatized in John Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath.

    There’s a very good museum in Denver dedicated to this.

    You can compare it to the USSR’s failed Virgin Lands campaign, but with a much worse outcome for the farmers since they bore all the risk personally.

    The Italians and Slavs who did not homestead this land should be grateful.

    Homesteading officially ended in 1976, and in Alaska in 1986. Mainly because of environmentalist control freaks, and possibly some corporate interests as well (i.e. desire to underpay for grazing, timber, mineral rights).

    Read More
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  137. Dmitry says:
    @Jaakko Raipala
    Seems to be mostly American patriotards in that thread complaining about why they would defend Finland. Well, I wouldn't defend Finland either if it's going to be a country that invites American tanks on its soil. If you have the military of a Great Power in your country, it inevitably means that your politics gets rewritten according to their desires and the American tanks come together with American NGOs that promote multiculturalism, poz and anti-nationhood.

    I think the traitors in charge are so stupid that they don't even see where this is going. If Russia gets some revanchist in charge after Putin and they actually decide to re-annex Finland, I think our politicians will be honestly surprised how few Finns will show up to defend this state after they've spent decades telling us that nationalism is evil, patriotism is low class, Finnish people and culture don't exist and everything has come from the outside, Christianity is a ridiculous belief system so we must welcome Islam, national borders are outdated blah blah blah.

    And it all started when the USSR collapsed and Finland aligned with the West. It was embarrassing to be a Soviet puppet state but having our politicians praise Stalin for 50 years was an embarrassment without permanent consequences, this demographic destruction that the West promotes is far worse.

    Considering that Finland is a voluntary member of the EU, I don’t think you can blame so much on the American occupation (even if this makes life more simple on the explanatory level).

    Japan is occupied by America, but they have only imported some compatible for them aspects of the American worldview like baseball, while otherwise maintaining significant distance in other cultural and intellectual aspects – more distance than with many non-aligning to American foreign policy countries (the Japanese create more distance from American culture, than our own culture does).

    (Although perhaps not a totally fair comparison since Japanese have the natural barrier of a very different language, which in Europe there is not).

    Read More
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  138. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    The language could not be read without them. The chronology would not survive without them.
     
    I'm not sure that's true, apart from the fact that the multilingual Rosetta stone was crucial for the decipherment of hieroglyphics. Coptic (if I understand correctly a direct descendant of the ancient Egyptians' language) did survive until modern times after all, and had a significant literary tradition, I suppose without that reading ancient Egyptian texts would have been impossible.
    Doesn't chronology depend (apart from inscriptions) on the works of Manetho who supposedly was a native Egyptian priest?

    I think it is fair for all Europeans to feel some pride in ancient Greek accomplishments, for we all share some of the same blood, whether that is Early European Farmer or not.
     
    I'd actually admit that Bliss and the annoying African are to some extent correct insofar as the ancient Greeks were in close contact with the older civilizations of the Mideast (Mesopotamia, Phoenicians etc.) and Egypt, with significant cultural exchange. The Greeks were generally xenophobic, but it's probably true that they would have felt more in common with a Persian than with invading Celts who were just seen as alien, savage barbarians.
    That being said, since the Greco-Roman heritage only survived, at least in fragments, in Europe I do think Europeans can legitimately regard Greco-Roman civilization as their own precursors.
    And none of this changes the fact that Bantu peoples have historically been civilizationally insignificant. Maybe that will change someday, but since even "intelligent" Africans seem to mostly obsess over the evil white man instead of actually dealing with their own problems I have my doubts.

    Regarding Coptic, I believe that the grammar is similar, but I don’t know how possible it would be to understand the text from that. The Copts used an alphabet derived from Greek and would not have understood hieroglyphs at all.

    Doesn’t chronology depend (apart from inscriptions) on the works of Manetho

    There’s a bit of debate about that. To start with, if written by Manetho, it would have been commissioned by the Ptolemies. Surviving references to Manetho seem to have an odd gap away from when it was supposedly written. Some believe Manetho was invented to give the work more legitimacy, and it was actually written by a Greek named Ptolemy of Mendes, who was said to have written a history of ancient Egypt.

    But these are just arguments of fine points. There isn’t any cultural continuation between ancient and modern Egypt. If they were more advanced in 2,000 BC, what did they do with their head start? Why did they not conquer Europe like the Greeks conquered Egypt? I don’t think “where are your pyramids?” is a good deconstruction of Europe, and that is certainly what it is meant to be.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    There isn’t any cultural continuation between ancient and modern Egypt.
     
    Yes, Islam and the Arabization linked to it destroyed any continuity. That's one of the things I find creepiest about Islam, how in many societies it has managed to largely erase any clear sense of the pre-Islamic past (admittedly not everywhere, e.g. in Iran cultural memory of the time before Islam does seem to exist to some extent if I understand correctly).

    I don’t think “where are your pyramids?” is a good deconstruction of Europe, and that is certainly what it is meant to be.
     
    I agree. It's also especially ridiculous when coming from a Nigerian.
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  139. @songbird
    Regarding Coptic, I believe that the grammar is similar, but I don't know how possible it would be to understand the text from that. The Copts used an alphabet derived from Greek and would not have understood hieroglyphs at all.

    Doesn’t chronology depend (apart from inscriptions) on the works of Manetho
     
    There's a bit of debate about that. To start with, if written by Manetho, it would have been commissioned by the Ptolemies. Surviving references to Manetho seem to have an odd gap away from when it was supposedly written. Some believe Manetho was invented to give the work more legitimacy, and it was actually written by a Greek named Ptolemy of Mendes, who was said to have written a history of ancient Egypt.

    But these are just arguments of fine points. There isn't any cultural continuation between ancient and modern Egypt. If they were more advanced in 2,000 BC, what did they do with their head start? Why did they not conquer Europe like the Greeks conquered Egypt? I don't think "where are your pyramids?" is a good deconstruction of Europe, and that is certainly what it is meant to be.

    There isn’t any cultural continuation between ancient and modern Egypt.

    Yes, Islam and the Arabization linked to it destroyed any continuity. That’s one of the things I find creepiest about Islam, how in many societies it has managed to largely erase any clear sense of the pre-Islamic past (admittedly not everywhere, e.g. in Iran cultural memory of the time before Islam does seem to exist to some extent if I understand correctly).

    I don’t think “where are your pyramids?” is a good deconstruction of Europe, and that is certainly what it is meant to be.

    I agree. It’s also especially ridiculous when coming from a Nigerian.

    Read More
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  140. Dmitry says:
    @Toronto Russian

    At least in the first link (which is also about Japan) – are you sure ? At least from watching videos, school looks pretty nice in Japan, and some of their schools they grow the food for lunch.
     
    I only saw the two replies from a Korean guy and a teacher in Korea, not from Japanese. I'm not well informed about their schools today. In the economic boom era, they had mad exam cramming since kindergarten, as written in this 1980s book. By now - probably got more chill. Food is of course extremely important in the life of Japanese people at any time.

    Зубрежка продолжается после школьных и домашних занятий в так называемых "дзюку", то есть на платных курсах. Каждый вечер до полуночи, иногда и в воскресенье школьники учат, не учатся, а именно учат, исторические факты — все подряд по хронологической таблице, английские слова — по словарю, страница за страницей, названия станций на главных железнодорожных магистралях — по расписанию поездов, маршрут за маршрутом. "Будешь спать четыре часа — в университет попадешь, будешь спать пять часов — провалишься", — бытует в Японии поговорка. 
    http://flibusta.is/b/215916/read#t9
     

    I think also they are in their 20s, they are complaining a lot about pressure.

    We used to have to call guys at Hitachi a few times for our job – and I remember all we heard from them when we asked them how they are doing – ‘work is bad’ or ‘it is very very bad’.

    Probably we have to teach them some of our skills of pretending to work while surfing the internet, posting on forums, and watching YouTube videos with headphones.

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    • LOL: Toronto Russian
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  141. Okechukwu says:
    @utu

    Unfortunately to [DNA results]
     
    Do not manipulate by reversing chronology. Recent DNA results are 'unfortunate'to those who based their hypothesis on sources like Herodotus before DNA testing existed not the other way around. Now fortunately with DNA results we can retire the audacious and valiant hypothesis of Cheikh Anta Diop which never was adopted by majority of historians though for obvious reason was attractive to some Africans.

    Yeah, I can just see some pinkish Northern European types running around shirtless in the Egyptian sun. Meanwhile, their brethren were more or less cavemen back in Europe. That makes absolutely no sense.

    If you read the caveats, disclaimers and peer reviews attached to the study you are referring to, you will quickly discover that you are the one attempting to make an emphatic determination based on faulty and insufficient data. Given the eventual polyethnic nature of Ancient Egypt, one can find virtually anything one is looking for in the genetic and anthropological records. A future examination of United States specimens will yield similar results. But that would tell us nothing as to who were the original inhabitants of the United States.

    All available evidence, including artwork and statuary, point to a black African origin of Ancient Egypt.

    I also mentioned Nubia in my OP. Nubian civilization actually predates and informed Egypt’s. Let me guess, you believe they were white too.

    Read More
    • Troll: German_reader
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Why not - I say let's give you Egypt. Lets be generous about it.

    There is obviously a substantial black element in Egypt, whatever its precise magnitude. This should be emphasized and become a source of pride for blacks. You can emulate it and strive to become like that again.

    So, Egypt is yours at least partially, and now you should strive to emulate it!

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world's greatest civilizations - lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.

    Every young black child should be told about his connection to Egypt and be encouraged to emulate it as much as possible.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible - demolishes the veterinarians.
    , @Anon

    Yeah, I can just see some pinkish Northern European types running around shirtless in the Egyptian sun. Meanwhile, their brethren were more or less cavemen back in Europe. That makes absolutely no sense.
     
    True. Egyptian civilization was built by black men like these guys:
    https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03371/Omar_Sharif_3371325k.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Muhammad_Naguib_1953.jpg
    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/110/299117817_363bb2ffcd.jpg?v=0

    Sure, there's a small sub-Saharan component in Egypt. But in the end of your comment you get to Nubia which makes a lot more sense for any sort of black triumphalism.

    But that would tell us nothing as to who were the original inhabitants of the United States.
     
    It helps: https://www.nature.com/news/north-america-s-oldest-mummy-returned-to-us-tribe-after-genome-sequencing-1.21108
    , @utu
    I am sorry to say but you can't be take seriously. It looks like you do not have higher aspirations than just being a troll who is not constrained by any rules of discourse and is free to use the most outlandish rhetorical devices and tricks and use evidence and falsity frivolously.

    Genetics studies of mummies form Egypt are what they are. They clearly indicate that there was no significant genetic component from Sub-Saharans Africans (SSA). Furthermore because modern population of Egypt has acquired SSA admixture in last 1000 years or so the research showed that:

    Strikingly, the mummies were more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians.
     
    which was further reinforced by this statement:

    we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested
     
    In terms of 'white'/'black' skin color dichotomy, which seems to obsess you, ancient Egyptians were more white than modern Egyptians and thus closer to 'pink' than to 'black' on the 'white'-'black' spectrum. This being said white Europeans and Americans do not seek racial or cultural identity with ancient Egyptians. Europeans know their roots pretty well. The reason they may argue with trolls like you is not because they compete for the Egyptian heritage and want to appropriate it and steal it from you. They could adopt a paternalistic approach as AaronB advocates and let you have Egypt in hope that this myth will boost your future well being and performance, however AaronB comes from the tradition of Haggadah where the truth is not fixed and myth becomes utilitarian truth. Our European tradition comes form Greeks is different. The truth is an absolute abstract that is not there to be utilized and manipulated. So our opposition to the myth building by Afrocentric nationalist who try to utilize ancient Egypt history fraudulently stems from loyalty to our philosophical tradition on which our civilization was built. We can't let you win in this debate which you are forcing on us because we may not let our children to be taught falsities in schools. This is against the fundamental principle of our tradition. W/o this principle science and civilization will collapse. So we will not treat you as children as AaronB would have it but as responsible members of a human race. But you by pushing this nonsensical debate are doing a great disservice to your race unless you really won't AaronB's of this world to be your daddies.
    , @melanf

    All available evidence, including artwork and statuary, point to a black African origin of Ancient Egypt.
     
    Wild, wild nonsense. Here's an ancient Egyptian depiction of a captive Nubian. https://m5.paperblog.com/i/102/1021200/cane-of-tutankhamun-with-two-enemies-L-jynU8x.jpeg

    And here is an ancient Egyptian depiction of the Egyptians themselves

    https://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/d/1/135/987/135987906_5964560_9966_foto_1_03.jpg

    http://elmiraguseinova.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/писец-каи.jpg


    Nubian civilization actually predates and informed Egypt’s
     
    It's just nonsense.
    , @melanf
    Here are the results of an anthropological study of the skulls of the ancient Egyptians:
    http://antropogenez.ru/zveno-single/302/
    "Craniologically," average " Egyptians are markedly different from Negroids. The skull of the" middle " Egyptian is long, medium-wide and medium-high, mesocratic on the verge of the dolichocrane, with a rather narrow forehead, with a not very high and narrow face, highly profiled between the eye space, very wide, but highly profiled and visibly protruding nasal bones, a small jaw. As can be seen, the vast majority of indicators are average in comparison with the global scale, which reflects the intermediate position of the East African race...

    Apparently, most of the population remained anthropologically almost unchanged from the Neolithic to the present,"

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  142. AaronB says:
    @Okechukwu
    Yeah, I can just see some pinkish Northern European types running around shirtless in the Egyptian sun. Meanwhile, their brethren were more or less cavemen back in Europe. That makes absolutely no sense.

    If you read the caveats, disclaimers and peer reviews attached to the study you are referring to, you will quickly discover that you are the one attempting to make an emphatic determination based on faulty and insufficient data. Given the eventual polyethnic nature of Ancient Egypt, one can find virtually anything one is looking for in the genetic and anthropological records. A future examination of United States specimens will yield similar results. But that would tell us nothing as to who were the original inhabitants of the United States.

    All available evidence, including artwork and statuary, point to a black African origin of Ancient Egypt.

    I also mentioned Nubia in my OP. Nubian civilization actually predates and informed Egypt's. Let me guess, you believe they were white too.

    Why not – I say let’s give you Egypt. Lets be generous about it.

    There is obviously a substantial black element in Egypt, whatever its precise magnitude. This should be emphasized and become a source of pride for blacks. You can emulate it and strive to become like that again.

    So, Egypt is yours at least partially, and now you should strive to emulate it!

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world’s greatest civilizations – lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.

    Every young black child should be told about his connection to Egypt and be encouraged to emulate it as much as possible.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible – demolishes the veterinarians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Errr, demolishes the hereditarians.
    , @Anonymous
    http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/224/098/1f3.jpg
    , @songbird
    Why not be generous? I will give him Enver Hoxha's pyramid too, just so long as Nigerians don't camp out in it.

    demolishes the hereditarians
     
    Afraid that is not parsimony. Supposing, you gave British blacks an actual IQ test and it matched, you would still be left with an awful lot to explain. For instance, why have blacks failed so miserably in America, despite enormous sums of money and good intentions? How is it in the internet age, success cannot be easily found and duplicated? Why is Africa always dead last? And within the Western Hemisphere, Haiti?

    The hereditarians have parsimony on their side and always have had it on their side.
    , @Okechukwu

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world’s greatest civilizations – lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.
     
    It's impossible to disentangle Ancient Egypt from the black African matrix. However, it most assuredly was not the only black civilization of note. In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.

    On Benin:

    Impressed Europeans came back from Benin City with stories of the magnificence of the Benin. A seventeenth century Dutch engraving from Olfert Dapper's Nauwkeurige Beschrijvinge der Afrikaansche Gewesten, published in Amsterdam in 1668 wrote:

    "The king's palace or court is a square, and is as large as the town of Haarlem and entirely surrounded by a special wall, like that which encircles the town. It is divided into many magnificent palaces, houses, and apartments of the courtiers, and comprises beautiful and long square galleries, about as large as the Exchange at Amsterdam, but one larger than another, resting on wooden pillars, from top to bottom covered with cast copper, on which are engraved the pictures of their war exploits and battles..."

    http://www.historywiz.com/benincity.html

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible – demolishes the veterinarians.
     
    Sure I knew. But if you think that's going to stop or demoralize hereditarians you're in for a rude awakening. When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they'll fling on the wall hoping some stick. If all else fails they'll troll with evermore ridiculous homemade graphs from some obscure white supremacist website.

    A constant motif here on Unz and similar echo-chambers is the notion that "race deniers" are unwilling to engage the "hard truths" of race and intelligence. But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn't comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview. They clamor seemingly for a national initiative to investigate this subject knowing full well that they will only accept the conclusions they are pining for.
    , @Okechukwu

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world’s greatest civilizations – lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.
     
    It's impossible to disentangle Ancient Egypt from the black African matrix. However, it most assuredly was not the only black civilization of note. In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible – demolishes the veterinarians.
     
    Sure I knew. But if you think that's going to stop or demoralize hereditarians you're in for a rude awakening. When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they'll fling on the wall hoping some stick. If all else fails they'll troll with evermore ridiculous homemade graphs from some obscure white supremacist website.

    A constant motif here on Unz and similar echo-chambers is the notion that "race deniers" are unwilling to engage the "hard truths" of race and intelligence. But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn't comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview. They clamor seemingly for a national initiative to investigate this subject knowing full well that they will only accept the conclusions they are pining for.
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  143. AaronB says:
    @AaronB
    Why not - I say let's give you Egypt. Lets be generous about it.

    There is obviously a substantial black element in Egypt, whatever its precise magnitude. This should be emphasized and become a source of pride for blacks. You can emulate it and strive to become like that again.

    So, Egypt is yours at least partially, and now you should strive to emulate it!

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world's greatest civilizations - lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.

    Every young black child should be told about his connection to Egypt and be encouraged to emulate it as much as possible.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible - demolishes the veterinarians.

    Errr, demolishes the hereditarians.

    Read More
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  144. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB
    Why not - I say let's give you Egypt. Lets be generous about it.

    There is obviously a substantial black element in Egypt, whatever its precise magnitude. This should be emphasized and become a source of pride for blacks. You can emulate it and strive to become like that again.

    So, Egypt is yours at least partially, and now you should strive to emulate it!

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world's greatest civilizations - lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.

    Every young black child should be told about his connection to Egypt and be encouraged to emulate it as much as possible.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible - demolishes the veterinarians.

    Read More
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  145. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Okechukwu
    Yeah, I can just see some pinkish Northern European types running around shirtless in the Egyptian sun. Meanwhile, their brethren were more or less cavemen back in Europe. That makes absolutely no sense.

    If you read the caveats, disclaimers and peer reviews attached to the study you are referring to, you will quickly discover that you are the one attempting to make an emphatic determination based on faulty and insufficient data. Given the eventual polyethnic nature of Ancient Egypt, one can find virtually anything one is looking for in the genetic and anthropological records. A future examination of United States specimens will yield similar results. But that would tell us nothing as to who were the original inhabitants of the United States.

    All available evidence, including artwork and statuary, point to a black African origin of Ancient Egypt.

    I also mentioned Nubia in my OP. Nubian civilization actually predates and informed Egypt's. Let me guess, you believe they were white too.

    Yeah, I can just see some pinkish Northern European types running around shirtless in the Egyptian sun. Meanwhile, their brethren were more or less cavemen back in Europe. That makes absolutely no sense.

    True. Egyptian civilization was built by black men like these guys:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Muhammad_Naguib_1953.jpg

    Sure, there’s a small sub-Saharan component in Egypt. But in the end of your comment you get to Nubia which makes a lot more sense for any sort of black triumphalism.

    But that would tell us nothing as to who were the original inhabitants of the United States.

    It helps: https://www.nature.com/news/north-america-s-oldest-mummy-returned-to-us-tribe-after-genome-sequencing-1.21108

    Read More
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  146. songbird says:
    @AaronB
    Why not - I say let's give you Egypt. Lets be generous about it.

    There is obviously a substantial black element in Egypt, whatever its precise magnitude. This should be emphasized and become a source of pride for blacks. You can emulate it and strive to become like that again.

    So, Egypt is yours at least partially, and now you should strive to emulate it!

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world's greatest civilizations - lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.

    Every young black child should be told about his connection to Egypt and be encouraged to emulate it as much as possible.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible - demolishes the veterinarians.

    Why not be generous? I will give him Enver Hoxha’s pyramid too, just so long as Nigerians don’t camp out in it.

    demolishes the hereditarians

    Afraid that is not parsimony. Supposing, you gave British blacks an actual IQ test and it matched, you would still be left with an awful lot to explain. For instance, why have blacks failed so miserably in America, despite enormous sums of money and good intentions? How is it in the internet age, success cannot be easily found and duplicated? Why is Africa always dead last? And within the Western Hemisphere, Haiti?

    The hereditarians have parsimony on their side and always have had it on their side.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    When I looked up Enver Hoxha's pyramid, I was very disappointed to see the graffiti on it :(
    , @Okechukwu

    For instance, why have blacks failed so miserably in America,
     
    Given what they've been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.

    Why is Africa always dead last? And within the Western Hemisphere, Haiti?
     
    Dead last in which metric? How is that relevant to intelligence? At various points in history, Europe was dead last. Did that speak to their innate intelligence?

    Why focus on Haiti? Aren't there other black majority countries in the Caribbean? It's this kind of deceitful cherrypicking that makes your ideology a joke.

    , @AaronB
    Ah, parsimony - you mean of course taking a complex and rich body of facts and ignoring half of them and simplifying the rest to produce distorted picture that bears no relation to reality.

    Hereditarians are dogmatic asserters - the opposite of parsimony, which is the humility to say what you know and no more.

    Why are Jews dominating whites despite being outnumbered 8-1 in terms of intelligent people? Why did a handful of British dominate India and China despite having far fewer intelligent people?

    Do I really have to rehash all the IQ debates we've been having on this site? Go read them - then tell me parsimony is on your side.

    Parsimony means seeing all the facts on IQ - which show it is thickly embedded in - and cannot be disentangle from - a complex matrix of psychological and environmental factors. Motivation plays a huge role, as does culture, ambition, urbanization, exposure to technology, etc.

    But I cannot repeat these things - go read all the fascinating discussions we've been having here. Unz is larger than just this blog, you know.
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  147. @songbird
    Why not be generous? I will give him Enver Hoxha's pyramid too, just so long as Nigerians don't camp out in it.

    demolishes the hereditarians
     
    Afraid that is not parsimony. Supposing, you gave British blacks an actual IQ test and it matched, you would still be left with an awful lot to explain. For instance, why have blacks failed so miserably in America, despite enormous sums of money and good intentions? How is it in the internet age, success cannot be easily found and duplicated? Why is Africa always dead last? And within the Western Hemisphere, Haiti?

    The hereditarians have parsimony on their side and always have had it on their side.

    When I looked up Enver Hoxha’s pyramid, I was very disappointed to see the graffiti on it :(

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    I suppose there is a lot of hard feelings, since he still lives in people's memories. I myself am not in favor of tearing it down, but I don't know what the maintenance on it may cost.

    They have tried to repurpose it a few times. Latest idea is to plant trees inside it.
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  148. Okechukwu says:
    @AaronB
    Why not - I say let's give you Egypt. Lets be generous about it.

    There is obviously a substantial black element in Egypt, whatever its precise magnitude. This should be emphasized and become a source of pride for blacks. You can emulate it and strive to become like that again.

    So, Egypt is yours at least partially, and now you should strive to emulate it!

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world's greatest civilizations - lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.

    Every young black child should be told about his connection to Egypt and be encouraged to emulate it as much as possible.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible - demolishes the veterinarians.

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world’s greatest civilizations – lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.

    It’s impossible to disentangle Ancient Egypt from the black African matrix. However, it most assuredly was not the only black civilization of note. In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.

    On Benin:

    Impressed Europeans came back from Benin City with stories of the magnificence of the Benin. A seventeenth century Dutch engraving from Olfert Dapper’s Nauwkeurige Beschrijvinge der Afrikaansche Gewesten, published in Amsterdam in 1668 wrote:

    “The king’s palace or court is a square, and is as large as the town of Haarlem and entirely surrounded by a special wall, like that which encircles the town. It is divided into many magnificent palaces, houses, and apartments of the courtiers, and comprises beautiful and long square galleries, about as large as the Exchange at Amsterdam, but one larger than another, resting on wooden pillars, from top to bottom covered with cast copper, on which are engraved the pictures of their war exploits and battles…”

    http://www.historywiz.com/benincity.html

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible – demolishes the veterinarians.

    Sure I knew. But if you think that’s going to stop or demoralize hereditarians you’re in for a rude awakening. When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they’ll fling on the wall hoping some stick. If all else fails they’ll troll with evermore ridiculous homemade graphs from some obscure white supremacist website.

    A constant motif here on Unz and similar echo-chambers is the notion that “race deniers” are unwilling to engage the “hard truths” of race and intelligence. But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn’t comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview. They clamor seemingly for a national initiative to investigate this subject knowing full well that they will only accept the conclusions they are pining for.

    Read More
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  149. songbird says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    When I looked up Enver Hoxha's pyramid, I was very disappointed to see the graffiti on it :(

    I suppose there is a lot of hard feelings, since he still lives in people’s memories. I myself am not in favor of tearing it down, but I don’t know what the maintenance on it may cost.

    They have tried to repurpose it a few times. Latest idea is to plant trees inside it.

    Read More
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  150. Okechukwu says:
    @AaronB
    Why not - I say let's give you Egypt. Lets be generous about it.

    There is obviously a substantial black element in Egypt, whatever its precise magnitude. This should be emphasized and become a source of pride for blacks. You can emulate it and strive to become like that again.

    So, Egypt is yours at least partially, and now you should strive to emulate it!

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world's greatest civilizations - lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.

    Every young black child should be told about his connection to Egypt and be encouraged to emulate it as much as possible.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible - demolishes the veterinarians.

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world’s greatest civilizations – lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.

    It’s impossible to disentangle Ancient Egypt from the black African matrix. However, it most assuredly was not the only black civilization of note. In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible – demolishes the veterinarians.

    Sure I knew. But if you think that’s going to stop or demoralize hereditarians you’re in for a rude awakening. When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they’ll fling on the wall hoping some stick. If all else fails they’ll troll with evermore ridiculous homemade graphs from some obscure white supremacist website.

    A constant motif here on Unz and similar echo-chambers is the notion that “race deniers” are unwilling to engage the “hard truths” of race and intelligence. But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn’t comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview. They clamor seemingly for a national initiative to investigate this subject knowing full well that they will only accept the conclusions they are pining for.

    Read More
    • Troll: German_reader
    • Replies: @AaronB

    In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.
     
    I don't know much about African history, but I'm not at all surprised. And you should be proud of these kingdoms and make them into a pattern to emulate for young blacks today.

    The more we publicize African civilizational achievements and encourage young blacks to consider it a pattern worth emulating the better for everyone involved.

    I was in southern Ethiopia on the border with Kenya, and the blacks I saw there seemed perfectly civilized people in the truest sense - they weren't urbanized and they lived simply, but they were dignified and courteous, intelligent and attractive. I have no doubt in a healthy culture - not degraded modern America - such people could be very peaceful and productive citizens.


    When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they’ll fling on the wall hoping some stick
     
    Lol, sadly this is only too true.

    But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn’t comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview

     

    This also is very true. They cannot handle complexity and multi-dimensional thinking. It is a serious defect in modern white thinking, the effects of a cultural degradation that has been ongoing for over a century and that has ravaged the capacity of whites to think clearly.

    They take the rich body of facts regarding IQ, spanning centuries across diverse ethnic groups, with all its fascinating counterfactuals and anomalies and curious ways things don't add up and contradict other things, and they try to impose this absurdly simplified schema on it that ignores half the evidence to produce a picture that would not have satisfied a child in the Victorian age, when people were still able to think.

    Anyways, the best thing YOU can do for your fellow blacks is make them as aware as possible of their participation in the great project of human civilization - provide them with healthy models to emulate and take pride in.

    Of course, whites should be helping you - but were clinging to the last shreds of our own rapidly fading civilization, so all we can do is take pleasure in putting you down.

    , @songbird
    Growth is opportunity, and Nigeria is growing. Why do you run from it? Don't you want to be a part of showing the world what Nigeria can really do? Don't you want to tell your kids, you helped build Nigeria into a superpower? Why would you not want your grandkids to live in the future Nigeria of 2100 which will be truly a vibrant place with nearly a billion of your fellow countrymen? With so many people whose heritage is the great pyramids, it will surely be a techno-paradise.
    , @TelfoedJohn
    One of the weird things about Blacks in the West (who are 95% West African) is their desire to pretend to be other people. Egyptian Kangz, East Africans (the Rastas), Ancient Hebrews, Black Muslims. Even Oprah Winfrey says she is Zulu.

    There's enough to be proud of if you're a Westerner of West African origin you would think. Metallurgy, Music, Kingdoms etc. Except of course their cousins in Mother Africa sold them, which perhaps makes them less amenable to be associated with West Africa. It's hard for a Black American to be impressed with Asante gold when they know where it comes from.

    , @anonymous
    The best rapper in the world is a white man. You can't even win at the fields you create.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cSpsQjiH1o
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  151. Okechukwu says:
    @songbird
    Why not be generous? I will give him Enver Hoxha's pyramid too, just so long as Nigerians don't camp out in it.

    demolishes the hereditarians
     
    Afraid that is not parsimony. Supposing, you gave British blacks an actual IQ test and it matched, you would still be left with an awful lot to explain. For instance, why have blacks failed so miserably in America, despite enormous sums of money and good intentions? How is it in the internet age, success cannot be easily found and duplicated? Why is Africa always dead last? And within the Western Hemisphere, Haiti?

    The hereditarians have parsimony on their side and always have had it on their side.

    For instance, why have blacks failed so miserably in America,

    Given what they’ve been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.

    Why is Africa always dead last? And within the Western Hemisphere, Haiti?

    Dead last in which metric? How is that relevant to intelligence? At various points in history, Europe was dead last. Did that speak to their innate intelligence?

    Why focus on Haiti? Aren’t there other black majority countries in the Caribbean? It’s this kind of deceitful cherrypicking that makes your ideology a joke.

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird

    Given what they’ve been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.
     
    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks? Why aren't the richest blacks in Haiti, Liberia, or Ethiopia? Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down? Why are blacks not leaving, but coming? Seems to me blacks in Nigeria had it worse, like when they were starving to death in Biafra, and that is why your parents left there. Why do you think you should benefit from affirmative action, when your folks were the sellers? And would you also like a check? How much, for being a descendant of sellers?

    At various points in history, Europe was dead last.
     
    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel? (and it had been introduced to them by the Chinese and Arabs - they just could not master the knack of it) How do you explain that? It was, after all, before colonialism.


    Why focus on Haiti? Aren’t there other black majority countries in the Caribbean?
     
    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions. The only other black country of reasonable size in the Western Hemisphere is Jamaica. Jamaica is less than half the size, and contains less than a third of the population. Still, I will allow that it has lead a few years in world murder stats - although with the obvious caveat that one should not trust the official Haiti stats. Another good aspect is that it can readily compared to the Dominican Republic, which also has some Afro-blood but in a much smaller amount.

    You don't think the biggest, most populous, longest-ruled black country in the West is a reasonable archetype? You'd rather pick the Bahamas or Bermuda? Those aren't rational approximations of Africa. It is easy to maintain order in tiny countries that have small populations and nearly no interior. They also benefit enormously from proximity to the US, both from tourism and offshore banking.
    , @Thorfinnsson

    Given what they’ve been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.
     

    You make it sounds like blacks were hindered by slavery and Jim Crowe in America. In fact the exact opposite is true. Consider the many wonderful things it did for them:

    • Worthless African languages replaced with English, the lingua franca
    • Work habits, discipline, and vocational skills taught
    • The "gang system" taught blacks to work together effectively in teams
    • The demands of plantation agriculture meant that men worked, unlike the situation in West Africa
    • Chaotic, dubious "family" structures replaced with the nuclear family
    • Witchcraft or whatever dropped for Christianity

    After slavery but still under white supremacy, blacks had many of the advantages they experienced under slavery (though, sadly, they lost the benefit of physical discipline and the gang system) and gained new ones:

    • Blacks gained literacy--probably the first widely literate black population in the world
    • Thanks to segregation, talented blacks remained within the black community and developed successful businesses, colleges, and other important institutions

    Since gaining freedom blacks have deteriorated rapidly, aside from a small fraction who benefit from the feudal dues that have been awarded to blacks since the late 1960s. And increasingly these feudal dues are claimed by immigrant blacks, including many from Africa who were never enslaved (indeed, their ancestors sold our blacks into slavery in the first place).

    So instead the blacks should be thanking Americans. With the possible exception of the British West Indies, no black nation in the world has so much to thank white people for. The only thing the blacks ought to be upset about is having been set free.

    So, yes, blacks can thrive--but only in the absence of freedom.

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  152. AaronB says:
    @Okechukwu

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world’s greatest civilizations – lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.
     
    It's impossible to disentangle Ancient Egypt from the black African matrix. However, it most assuredly was not the only black civilization of note. In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible – demolishes the veterinarians.
     
    Sure I knew. But if you think that's going to stop or demoralize hereditarians you're in for a rude awakening. When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they'll fling on the wall hoping some stick. If all else fails they'll troll with evermore ridiculous homemade graphs from some obscure white supremacist website.

    A constant motif here on Unz and similar echo-chambers is the notion that "race deniers" are unwilling to engage the "hard truths" of race and intelligence. But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn't comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview. They clamor seemingly for a national initiative to investigate this subject knowing full well that they will only accept the conclusions they are pining for.

    In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.

    I don’t know much about African history, but I’m not at all surprised. And you should be proud of these kingdoms and make them into a pattern to emulate for young blacks today.

    The more we publicize African civilizational achievements and encourage young blacks to consider it a pattern worth emulating the better for everyone involved.

    I was in southern Ethiopia on the border with Kenya, and the blacks I saw there seemed perfectly civilized people in the truest sense – they weren’t urbanized and they lived simply, but they were dignified and courteous, intelligent and attractive. I have no doubt in a healthy culture – not degraded modern America – such people could be very peaceful and productive citizens.

    When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they’ll fling on the wall hoping some stick

    Lol, sadly this is only too true.

    But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn’t comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview

    This also is very true. They cannot handle complexity and multi-dimensional thinking. It is a serious defect in modern white thinking, the effects of a cultural degradation that has been ongoing for over a century and that has ravaged the capacity of whites to think clearly.

    They take the rich body of facts regarding IQ, spanning centuries across diverse ethnic groups, with all its fascinating counterfactuals and anomalies and curious ways things don’t add up and contradict other things, and they try to impose this absurdly simplified schema on it that ignores half the evidence to produce a picture that would not have satisfied a child in the Victorian age, when people were still able to think.

    Anyways, the best thing YOU can do for your fellow blacks is make them as aware as possible of their participation in the great project of human civilization – provide them with healthy models to emulate and take pride in.

    Of course, whites should be helping you – but were clinging to the last shreds of our own rapidly fading civilization, so all we can do is take pleasure in putting you down.

    Read More
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  153. AaronB says:
    @songbird
    Why not be generous? I will give him Enver Hoxha's pyramid too, just so long as Nigerians don't camp out in it.

    demolishes the hereditarians
     
    Afraid that is not parsimony. Supposing, you gave British blacks an actual IQ test and it matched, you would still be left with an awful lot to explain. For instance, why have blacks failed so miserably in America, despite enormous sums of money and good intentions? How is it in the internet age, success cannot be easily found and duplicated? Why is Africa always dead last? And within the Western Hemisphere, Haiti?

    The hereditarians have parsimony on their side and always have had it on their side.

    Ah, parsimony – you mean of course taking a complex and rich body of facts and ignoring half of them and simplifying the rest to produce distorted picture that bears no relation to reality.

    Hereditarians are dogmatic asserters – the opposite of parsimony, which is the humility to say what you know and no more.

    Why are Jews dominating whites despite being outnumbered 8-1 in terms of intelligent people? Why did a handful of British dominate India and China despite having far fewer intelligent people?

    Do I really have to rehash all the IQ debates we’ve been having on this site? Go read them – then tell me parsimony is on your side.

    Parsimony means seeing all the facts on IQ – which show it is thickly embedded in – and cannot be disentangle from – a complex matrix of psychological and environmental factors. Motivation plays a huge role, as does culture, ambition, urbanization, exposure to technology, etc.

    But I cannot repeat these things – go read all the fascinating discussions we’ve been having here. Unz is larger than just this blog, you know.

    Read More
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  154. songbird says:
    @Okechukwu

    For instance, why have blacks failed so miserably in America,
     
    Given what they've been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.

    Why is Africa always dead last? And within the Western Hemisphere, Haiti?
     
    Dead last in which metric? How is that relevant to intelligence? At various points in history, Europe was dead last. Did that speak to their innate intelligence?

    Why focus on Haiti? Aren't there other black majority countries in the Caribbean? It's this kind of deceitful cherrypicking that makes your ideology a joke.

    Given what they’ve been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.

    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks? Why aren’t the richest blacks in Haiti, Liberia, or Ethiopia? Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down? Why are blacks not leaving, but coming? Seems to me blacks in Nigeria had it worse, like when they were starving to death in Biafra, and that is why your parents left there. Why do you think you should benefit from affirmative action, when your folks were the sellers? And would you also like a check? How much, for being a descendant of sellers?

    At various points in history, Europe was dead last.

    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel? (and it had been introduced to them by the Chinese and Arabs – they just could not master the knack of it) How do you explain that? It was, after all, before colonialism.

    Why focus on Haiti? Aren’t there other black majority countries in the Caribbean?

    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions. The only other black country of reasonable size in the Western Hemisphere is Jamaica. Jamaica is less than half the size, and contains less than a third of the population. Still, I will allow that it has lead a few years in world murder stats – although with the obvious caveat that one should not trust the official Haiti stats. Another good aspect is that it can readily compared to the Dominican Republic, which also has some Afro-blood but in a much smaller amount.

    You don’t think the biggest, most populous, longest-ruled black country in the West is a reasonable archetype? You’d rather pick the Bahamas or Bermuda? Those aren’t rational approximations of Africa. It is easy to maintain order in tiny countries that have small populations and nearly no interior. They also benefit enormously from proximity to the US, both from tourism and offshore banking.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks?
     
    If economic success is tied to race to the exclusion of everything else, and if whites have a genetic advantage in economic performance, why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down?
     
    Nobody wants to live among racist whites. But it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that you fringe posters on Unz represent whites broadly. You don't. The America I've experienced isn't the same America before my time. Things can always get better, but they were much worse before.

    As I explained earlier, people move around the globe for economic reasons. It's why most of you on this thread are not writing from your European homelands. If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?


    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel?
     
    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European "medicine" consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn't your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it. They didn't exactly figure it out on their own. If they were never introduced to the wheel it's unlikely they would have it even today.


    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions.
     
    Haiti has a complex and complicated history. I know you eschew complexity and context in your mad rush to deem black people stupid. But fortunately, the real world doesn't work that way, and thankfully, neither does scientific inquiry. What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time. Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they're responsible for the United States as it's presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.
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  155. @Okechukwu

    For instance, why have blacks failed so miserably in America,
     
    Given what they've been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.

    Why is Africa always dead last? And within the Western Hemisphere, Haiti?
     
    Dead last in which metric? How is that relevant to intelligence? At various points in history, Europe was dead last. Did that speak to their innate intelligence?

    Why focus on Haiti? Aren't there other black majority countries in the Caribbean? It's this kind of deceitful cherrypicking that makes your ideology a joke.

    Given what they’ve been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.

    You make it sounds like blacks were hindered by slavery and Jim Crowe in America. In fact the exact opposite is true. Consider the many wonderful things it did for them:

    • Worthless African languages replaced with English, the lingua franca
    • Work habits, discipline, and vocational skills taught
    • The “gang system” taught blacks to work together effectively in teams
    • The demands of plantation agriculture meant that men worked, unlike the situation in West Africa
    • Chaotic, dubious “family” structures replaced with the nuclear family
    • Witchcraft or whatever dropped for Christianity

    After slavery but still under white supremacy, blacks had many of the advantages they experienced under slavery (though, sadly, they lost the benefit of physical discipline and the gang system) and gained new ones:

    • Blacks gained literacy–probably the first widely literate black population in the world
    • Thanks to segregation, talented blacks remained within the black community and developed successful businesses, colleges, and other important institutions

    Since gaining freedom blacks have deteriorated rapidly, aside from a small fraction who benefit from the feudal dues that have been awarded to blacks since the late 1960s. And increasingly these feudal dues are claimed by immigrant blacks, including many from Africa who were never enslaved (indeed, their ancestors sold our blacks into slavery in the first place).

    So instead the blacks should be thanking Americans. With the possible exception of the British West Indies, no black nation in the world has so much to thank white people for. The only thing the blacks ought to be upset about is having been set free.

    So, yes, blacks can thrive–but only in the absence of freedom.

    Read More
    • Troll: Okechukwu
    • Replies: @AaronB

    So, yes, blacks can thrive–but only in the absence of freedom
     
    Perhaps true for everyone. Including whites.

    Return to feudalism!
    , @Bliss
    Haiti defeats Napoleon —> Napoleon loses hope in his ambitious plans for the Americas—> Napoleon has to sell off Louisiana for pennies a dollar to the small new nation located next to it (USA) —> half a century later USA offers up these vast undeveloped lands for practically free to Americans and immigrants from northwestern Europe—-> Thorfinnsson’s ancestors take advantage of the offer?

    Seems obvious to me that America and millions of Germans and Scandinavians who immigrated to the Midwest in the 19th century benefited enormously from the Haitian Revolution.
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  156. songbird says:
    @Okechukwu

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world’s greatest civilizations – lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.
     
    It's impossible to disentangle Ancient Egypt from the black African matrix. However, it most assuredly was not the only black civilization of note. In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible – demolishes the veterinarians.
     
    Sure I knew. But if you think that's going to stop or demoralize hereditarians you're in for a rude awakening. When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they'll fling on the wall hoping some stick. If all else fails they'll troll with evermore ridiculous homemade graphs from some obscure white supremacist website.

    A constant motif here on Unz and similar echo-chambers is the notion that "race deniers" are unwilling to engage the "hard truths" of race and intelligence. But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn't comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview. They clamor seemingly for a national initiative to investigate this subject knowing full well that they will only accept the conclusions they are pining for.

    Growth is opportunity, and Nigeria is growing. Why do you run from it? Don’t you want to be a part of showing the world what Nigeria can really do? Don’t you want to tell your kids, you helped build Nigeria into a superpower? Why would you not want your grandkids to live in the future Nigeria of 2100 which will be truly a vibrant place with nearly a billion of your fellow countrymen? With so many people whose heritage is the great pyramids, it will surely be a techno-paradise.

    Read More
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  157. AaronB says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Given what they’ve been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.
     

    You make it sounds like blacks were hindered by slavery and Jim Crowe in America. In fact the exact opposite is true. Consider the many wonderful things it did for them:

    • Worthless African languages replaced with English, the lingua franca
    • Work habits, discipline, and vocational skills taught
    • The "gang system" taught blacks to work together effectively in teams
    • The demands of plantation agriculture meant that men worked, unlike the situation in West Africa
    • Chaotic, dubious "family" structures replaced with the nuclear family
    • Witchcraft or whatever dropped for Christianity

    After slavery but still under white supremacy, blacks had many of the advantages they experienced under slavery (though, sadly, they lost the benefit of physical discipline and the gang system) and gained new ones:

    • Blacks gained literacy--probably the first widely literate black population in the world
    • Thanks to segregation, talented blacks remained within the black community and developed successful businesses, colleges, and other important institutions

    Since gaining freedom blacks have deteriorated rapidly, aside from a small fraction who benefit from the feudal dues that have been awarded to blacks since the late 1960s. And increasingly these feudal dues are claimed by immigrant blacks, including many from Africa who were never enslaved (indeed, their ancestors sold our blacks into slavery in the first place).

    So instead the blacks should be thanking Americans. With the possible exception of the British West Indies, no black nation in the world has so much to thank white people for. The only thing the blacks ought to be upset about is having been set free.

    So, yes, blacks can thrive--but only in the absence of freedom.

    So, yes, blacks can thrive–but only in the absence of freedom

    Perhaps true for everyone. Including whites.

    Return to feudalism!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Sure, and in fact some of the Fire Eaters came to the same conclusion by the 1850s.


    19 out of every 20 people have the inalienable right to become slaves.
     
    -George Fitzhugh

    None the less freedom has been more catastrophic to blacks than to whites. A simple look at family structure is a good example. Massive deterioration for black and white alike, but faster and deeper deterioration for black.
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  158. @AaronB

    So, yes, blacks can thrive–but only in the absence of freedom
     
    Perhaps true for everyone. Including whites.

    Return to feudalism!

    Sure, and in fact some of the Fire Eaters came to the same conclusion by the 1850s.

    19 out of every 20 people have the inalienable right to become slaves.

    -George Fitzhugh

    None the less freedom has been more catastrophic to blacks than to whites. A simple look at family structure is a good example. Massive deterioration for black and white alike, but faster and deeper deterioration for black.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    I cannot disagree with that. Blacks did deteriorate worse than whites in America - but everyone's been hit hard.

    Most people are economic slaves today anyways. Under feudalism, at least there would be noblesse oblige, real relationship of loyalty and affection between Lord and vassal, structure, hierarchy, a sense of sacred bonds uniting society.

    Feudalism 2.0.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  159. AaronB says:
    @Thorfinnsson
    Sure, and in fact some of the Fire Eaters came to the same conclusion by the 1850s.


    19 out of every 20 people have the inalienable right to become slaves.
     
    -George Fitzhugh

    None the less freedom has been more catastrophic to blacks than to whites. A simple look at family structure is a good example. Massive deterioration for black and white alike, but faster and deeper deterioration for black.

    I cannot disagree with that. Blacks did deteriorate worse than whites in America – but everyone’s been hit hard.

    Most people are economic slaves today anyways. Under feudalism, at least there would be noblesse oblige, real relationship of loyalty and affection between Lord and vassal, structure, hierarchy, a sense of sacred bonds uniting society.

    Feudalism 2.0.

    Read More
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  160. Okechukwu says:
    @songbird

    Given what they’ve been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.
     
    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks? Why aren't the richest blacks in Haiti, Liberia, or Ethiopia? Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down? Why are blacks not leaving, but coming? Seems to me blacks in Nigeria had it worse, like when they were starving to death in Biafra, and that is why your parents left there. Why do you think you should benefit from affirmative action, when your folks were the sellers? And would you also like a check? How much, for being a descendant of sellers?

    At various points in history, Europe was dead last.
     
    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel? (and it had been introduced to them by the Chinese and Arabs - they just could not master the knack of it) How do you explain that? It was, after all, before colonialism.


    Why focus on Haiti? Aren’t there other black majority countries in the Caribbean?
     
    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions. The only other black country of reasonable size in the Western Hemisphere is Jamaica. Jamaica is less than half the size, and contains less than a third of the population. Still, I will allow that it has lead a few years in world murder stats - although with the obvious caveat that one should not trust the official Haiti stats. Another good aspect is that it can readily compared to the Dominican Republic, which also has some Afro-blood but in a much smaller amount.

    You don't think the biggest, most populous, longest-ruled black country in the West is a reasonable archetype? You'd rather pick the Bahamas or Bermuda? Those aren't rational approximations of Africa. It is easy to maintain order in tiny countries that have small populations and nearly no interior. They also benefit enormously from proximity to the US, both from tourism and offshore banking.

    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks?

    If economic success is tied to race to the exclusion of everything else, and if whites have a genetic advantage in economic performance, why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down?

    Nobody wants to live among racist whites. But it’s rather disingenuous of you to suggest that you fringe posters on Unz represent whites broadly. You don’t. The America I’ve experienced isn’t the same America before my time. Things can always get better, but they were much worse before.

    As I explained earlier, people move around the globe for economic reasons. It’s why most of you on this thread are not writing from your European homelands. If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?

    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel?

    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European “medicine” consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn’t your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it. They didn’t exactly figure it out on their own. If they were never introduced to the wheel it’s unlikely they would have it even today.

    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions.

    Haiti has a complex and complicated history. I know you eschew complexity and context in your mad rush to deem black people stupid. But fortunately, the real world doesn’t work that way, and thankfully, neither does scientific inquiry. What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time. Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they’re responsible for the United States as it’s presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European “medicine” consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?
     
    Source for that?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTQnnwDN3eU
    , @songbird

    why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

     

    I believe your starting point is a little off. Russia's nominal GDP is about $ 1.3 trillion. Is the GDP of black Americans greater? I don't believe so, but shall I grant it? In that case, it is mostly not output but transfer of wealth. A true comparison would not be comparing a minority of blacks in a white country (shall we compare Russian Americans to black ones?), but rather comparing Russia to a fully black country like Nigeria which actually as over 40 million more inhabitants. Shall we compare their space programs?

    If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?
     
    As globalist Thomas Friedman likes to say now - the world is (now) flat. Resources like hard coal, which Ireland did not have, can be transported cheaply anywhere. The famine in Ireland was artificial, anyway - caused by the corn laws which had banned importation of food. Famines ended in Ireland when trains were built. Ireland is now one of the richest countries in the world. It is an interesting question what the Nigerians are doing there now though, since it is a country with out great natural resources.

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn’t your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it.
     
    You don't think the horse lords had the wheel? You think they got it off someone else who didn't have draft animals? Or Africans who had zebra, but never domesticated them?

    What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time.
     
    Yellow fever. Same reason the US left Cuba in a hurry. Resistance to tropical diseases are Africans' one superpower, and yellow fever comes from Africa, so they had time to evolve some defences.


    That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.
     
    And other thinly populated frontiers like Alaska, California, the SW, and Texas were all acquired for the US through the brave feats of Haitians fighting off European powers. Not natural westward expansion, as for instance, happened in the opposite direction in Russia.
    , @Anatoly Karlin

    ... why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

     

    1. Because American Negroes live in, benefit from, and accrue massive subsidies from a White society that has enjoyed centuries of unhindered capitalist development.

    Your natural state of development is found in Liberia, a country founded by American Negroes who must at least be commended for going back.

    2. Not true in purchasing-power adjusted terms, anyway.
    , @Bliss

    Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they’re responsible for the United States as it’s presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.
     
    Very true. And the victorious Haitian’s inspired, encouraged and armed Simón Bolivar’s revolt against the Spanish Empire and also inspired the Greek revolt against the Ottoman Empire:

    https://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/Haiti-The-Price-of-Liberation-20141231-0006.html

    “Should I not let it be known to later generations that Alexander Petion is the true liberator of my country?” said Simon Bolivar, the Venezuelan leader who liberated South America from Spanish rule, to Alexandre Petion, the first president of Haiti.

    According to “El Libertador: Writings of Simon Bolivar,” a collection of public and private letters of Bolivar, Haiti not only provided material resources but was also the model for the liberated South American nations. Bolivar structured Bolivia's first government from the example of Haiti and the Venezuelan constitution was based on the constitution Petion drew up for Haiti. And, of course, he declared slavery illegal in the nascent countries.


    http://www.hougansydney.com/haiti/how-haiti-helped-greece-in-its-fight-for-ndependence

    Many know that Haiti's help was crucial in the liberation of many Latin American countries, the most remembered being the liberation of Venezuela, however most are unaware that the first Black Republic also helped many other countries well beyond its shores in the Americas. This Article will analyze the role of Haiti in the establishment of Greece, as an independent country.

    Between 1821 and 1832, the Greek revolutionaries waged wars against the Ottoman Empire, which had been ruling most of Greece since 1453. Out of money, supplies and help from their European neighbors, the Greek revolutionaries decided to seek help from a small nation. A nation very far away from theirs, which was not only famous for its own successful revolution; for having defeated the powerful armies of Spain, Britain and France to gain freedom, but also because of Its open-arms policy to all territories fighting for self-determination: Haiti.


    They sent a letter to then Haiti's president Jean Pierre Boyer, asking him for military and monetary help for their fight against Ottoman rules. Haiti was in financial ruins however. The country had lost nearly all of its sources of revenues in the wars for independence against the French empire. Plus the recent integration of former Spanish colony (modern day Dominican Republic) into Haiti was also having some financial restraint on the Haitian government.

    In a lengthy letter, on January 15th 1822, President Boyer explained to Adamantios Korais, then Governor of Greece, that due to Haiti's financial situation he would not be able to send money nor men to Greece, but promised to do all that he could to help in their cause for freedom. President Boyer did find a way to help the Greeks; with the letter, he sent a cargaison of 25 tons of coffee, one of the most important commodities of the time, to Adamantios Korais, to be sold on behalf of the greek revolutionaries for the procurement of supplies; thus making Haiti the first country in the world to recognized Greece as an independent country, and the first one outside Europe to help the country of Socrates achieve self-determination. Two months later, Great Britain followed Haiti and recognized Greece as an independent country.

    , @Bliss

    Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they’re responsible for the United States as it’s presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.
     
    Exactly right. What would the American Continent be like today if the Haitians had not defeated the French? If Napoleon had not been demoralized by his defeat would we be speaking French today?

    Here’s another debt America owes to Haiti, which has been whitewashed out of history: Black and Mulatto Haitian volunteers fought alongside Americans in the Revolutionary War.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2010/1/16/825715/-
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  161. @Okechukwu

    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks?
     
    If economic success is tied to race to the exclusion of everything else, and if whites have a genetic advantage in economic performance, why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down?
     
    Nobody wants to live among racist whites. But it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that you fringe posters on Unz represent whites broadly. You don't. The America I've experienced isn't the same America before my time. Things can always get better, but they were much worse before.

    As I explained earlier, people move around the globe for economic reasons. It's why most of you on this thread are not writing from your European homelands. If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?


    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel?
     
    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European "medicine" consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn't your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it. They didn't exactly figure it out on their own. If they were never introduced to the wheel it's unlikely they would have it even today.


    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions.
     
    Haiti has a complex and complicated history. I know you eschew complexity and context in your mad rush to deem black people stupid. But fortunately, the real world doesn't work that way, and thankfully, neither does scientific inquiry. What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time. Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they're responsible for the United States as it's presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European “medicine” consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?

    Source for that?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    This was observed by a white doctor in 1879 but we can assume that the Africans had hundreds if not thousands of years experience in this practice:

    Robert Felkin MD (1853–1926) and Caesarean delivery in Central Africa (1879)

    http://fn.bmj.com/content/80/3/F250

    Same is true here. Cameras captured this, but we can assume the practice has a much longer history:

    https://www.medicalvideos.com/video/11344/traditional-african-brain-surgery

    For further reading:

    Many treatments we use today were employed by several ancient peoples throughout Africa. Before the European invasion of Africa, medicine in what is now Egypt, Nigeria and South Africa, to name just a few places, was more advanced than medicine in Europe. Some of these practices were the use of plants with salicylic acid for pain (as in aspirin), kaolin for diarrhea (as in Kaopectate), and extracts that were confirmed in the 20th century to kill Gram positive bacteria (2). Other plants used had anticancer properties, caused abortion and treated malaria — and these have been shown to be as effective as many modern-day Western treatments. Furthermore, Africans discovered ouabain, capsicum, physostigmine and reserpine. Medical procedures performed in ancient Africa before they were performed in Europe include vaccination, autopsy, limb traction and broken bone setting, bullet removal, brain surgery, skin grafting, filling of dental cavities, installation of false teeth, what is now known as Caesarean section, anesthesia and tissue cauterization (3). In addition, African cultures preformed surgeries under antiseptic conditions universally when this concept was only emerging in Europe

    http://www.asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/asbmbtoday_article.aspx?id=32437
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  162. @Okechukwu

    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks?
     
    If economic success is tied to race to the exclusion of everything else, and if whites have a genetic advantage in economic performance, why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down?
     
    Nobody wants to live among racist whites. But it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that you fringe posters on Unz represent whites broadly. You don't. The America I've experienced isn't the same America before my time. Things can always get better, but they were much worse before.

    As I explained earlier, people move around the globe for economic reasons. It's why most of you on this thread are not writing from your European homelands. If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?


    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel?
     
    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European "medicine" consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn't your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it. They didn't exactly figure it out on their own. If they were never introduced to the wheel it's unlikely they would have it even today.


    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions.
     
    Haiti has a complex and complicated history. I know you eschew complexity and context in your mad rush to deem black people stupid. But fortunately, the real world doesn't work that way, and thankfully, neither does scientific inquiry. What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time. Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they're responsible for the United States as it's presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    Read More
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  163. Okechukwu says:
    @German_reader

    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European “medicine” consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?
     
    Source for that?

    This was observed by a white doctor in 1879 but we can assume that the Africans had hundreds if not thousands of years experience in this practice:

    Robert Felkin MD (1853–1926) and Caesarean delivery in Central Africa (1879)

    http://fn.bmj.com/content/80/3/F250

    Same is true here. Cameras captured this, but we can assume the practice has a much longer history:

    https://www.medicalvideos.com/video/11344/traditional-african-brain-surgery

    For further reading:

    Many treatments we use today were employed by several ancient peoples throughout Africa. Before the European invasion of Africa, medicine in what is now Egypt, Nigeria and South Africa, to name just a few places, was more advanced than medicine in Europe. Some of these practices were the use of plants with salicylic acid for pain (as in aspirin), kaolin for diarrhea (as in Kaopectate), and extracts that were confirmed in the 20th century to kill Gram positive bacteria (2). Other plants used had anticancer properties, caused abortion and treated malaria — and these have been shown to be as effective as many modern-day Western treatments. Furthermore, Africans discovered ouabain, capsicum, physostigmine and reserpine. Medical procedures performed in ancient Africa before they were performed in Europe include vaccination, autopsy, limb traction and broken bone setting, bullet removal, brain surgery, skin grafting, filling of dental cavities, installation of false teeth, what is now known as Caesarean section, anesthesia and tissue cauterization (3). In addition, African cultures preformed surgeries under antiseptic conditions universally when this concept was only emerging in Europe

    http://www.asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/asbmbtoday_article.aspx?id=32437

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    I actually went to the trouble to read that ASBMB article. Kind of sad that such obvious rot (Africans invented steam engines? Egyptians wrote textbooks about math 35 000 years ago? West Africans sailed to China in the 13th century and brought back elephants?) is published on the site of what is (or was?) apparently a serious academic society.
    Frankly, white Americans are far too nice to your kind.
    , @AaronB
    They brought out all the heavy guns against you :)

    A backhanded compliment.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    we wuz neurosurgeonz 'n sheet
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  164. songbird says:
    @Okechukwu

    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks?
     
    If economic success is tied to race to the exclusion of everything else, and if whites have a genetic advantage in economic performance, why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down?
     
    Nobody wants to live among racist whites. But it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that you fringe posters on Unz represent whites broadly. You don't. The America I've experienced isn't the same America before my time. Things can always get better, but they were much worse before.

    As I explained earlier, people move around the globe for economic reasons. It's why most of you on this thread are not writing from your European homelands. If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?


    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel?
     
    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European "medicine" consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn't your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it. They didn't exactly figure it out on their own. If they were never introduced to the wheel it's unlikely they would have it even today.


    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions.
     
    Haiti has a complex and complicated history. I know you eschew complexity and context in your mad rush to deem black people stupid. But fortunately, the real world doesn't work that way, and thankfully, neither does scientific inquiry. What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time. Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they're responsible for the United States as it's presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    I believe your starting point is a little off. Russia’s nominal GDP is about $ 1.3 trillion. Is the GDP of black Americans greater? I don’t believe so, but shall I grant it? In that case, it is mostly not output but transfer of wealth. A true comparison would not be comparing a minority of blacks in a white country (shall we compare Russian Americans to black ones?), but rather comparing Russia to a fully black country like Nigeria which actually as over 40 million more inhabitants. Shall we compare their space programs?

    If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?

    As globalist Thomas Friedman likes to say now – the world is (now) flat. Resources like hard coal, which Ireland did not have, can be transported cheaply anywhere. The famine in Ireland was artificial, anyway – caused by the corn laws which had banned importation of food. Famines ended in Ireland when trains were built. Ireland is now one of the richest countries in the world. It is an interesting question what the Nigerians are doing there now though, since it is a country with out great natural resources.

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn’t your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it.

    You don’t think the horse lords had the wheel? You think they got it off someone else who didn’t have draft animals? Or Africans who had zebra, but never domesticated them?

    What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time.

    Yellow fever. Same reason the US left Cuba in a hurry. Resistance to tropical diseases are Africans’ one superpower, and yellow fever comes from Africa, so they had time to evolve some defences.

    That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    And other thinly populated frontiers like Alaska, California, the SW, and Texas were all acquired for the US through the brave feats of Haitians fighting off European powers. Not natural westward expansion, as for instance, happened in the opposite direction in Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    A true comparison would not be comparing a minority of blacks in a white country (shall we compare Russian Americans to black ones?), but rather comparing Russia to a fully black country like Nigeria which actually as over 40 million more inhabitants.
     
    No can do. If you can float data shorn of any context whatsoever, please allow others to do the same. Otherwise you're the worst kind of hypocrite.

    As globalist Thomas Friedman likes to say now – the world is (now) flat. Resources like hard coal, which Ireland did not have, can be transported cheaply anywhere. The famine in Ireland was artificial, anyway – caused by the corn laws which had banned importation of food
     
    Cute excuses and rationalizations. I got millions of excuses and rationalizations for Africa.

    You don’t think the horse lords had the wheel? You think they got it off someone else who didn’t have draft animals?
     
    I suggest you look up the history of the wheel rather than speculating. But I'll tell you now, if your ancestors had seen an Egyptian or Nubian chariot they might have presumed it was sorcery.

    Or Africans who had zebra, but never domesticated them?
     
    The zebra is undomesticable. It's too ornary and unpredictable.

    Yellow fever. Same reason the US left Cuba in a hurry.
     
    Yellow fever my ass. Whites had lived in Haiti for generations. They were roundly defeated in the field. Whites always make excuses for their military defeats. At Isandlwana, they claimed the guy that hands out ammunition was on a lunch break or something, even though they had every technological advantage including artillery, rockets, repeating rifles and gatling guns.

    And other thinly populated frontiers like Alaska, California, the SW, and Texas were all acquired for the US through the brave feats of Haitians fighting off European powers.
     
    France was the strongest military power in the world. The US didn't want to mess with them. They could not seize the territory by force.
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  165. @Okechukwu

    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks?
     
    If economic success is tied to race to the exclusion of everything else, and if whites have a genetic advantage in economic performance, why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down?
     
    Nobody wants to live among racist whites. But it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that you fringe posters on Unz represent whites broadly. You don't. The America I've experienced isn't the same America before my time. Things can always get better, but they were much worse before.

    As I explained earlier, people move around the globe for economic reasons. It's why most of you on this thread are not writing from your European homelands. If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?


    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel?
     
    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European "medicine" consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn't your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it. They didn't exactly figure it out on their own. If they were never introduced to the wheel it's unlikely they would have it even today.


    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions.
     
    Haiti has a complex and complicated history. I know you eschew complexity and context in your mad rush to deem black people stupid. But fortunately, the real world doesn't work that way, and thankfully, neither does scientific inquiry. What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time. Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they're responsible for the United States as it's presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    … why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    1. Because American Negroes live in, benefit from, and accrue massive subsidies from a White society that has enjoyed centuries of unhindered capitalist development.

    Your natural state of development is found in Liberia, a country founded by American Negroes who must at least be commended for going back.

    2. Not true in purchasing-power adjusted terms, anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    1. Because American Negroes live in, benefit from, and accrue massive subsidies from a White society that has enjoyed centuries of unhindered capitalist development.
     
    The economy was built on the backs of black Americans. Blacks were significantly responsible for the prosperity that caused Europeans to flee their various dysfunctional basketcases for America. There are cogent arguments by noted economists that detail the overwhelmingly positive impact of free black labor on the American economy.

    Your natural state of development is found in Liberia, a country founded by American Negroes who must at least be commended for going back.
     
    Why don't you go back to Russia or wherever it is you're from? Black people have been here for over 400 years, fought in every war and helped build the institutions and systems you are taking advantage of. What are you, an immigrant? Second generation?

    Not true in purchasing-power adjusted terms, anyway.
     
    PPP is a junk metric.
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  166. @Okechukwu
    This was observed by a white doctor in 1879 but we can assume that the Africans had hundreds if not thousands of years experience in this practice:

    Robert Felkin MD (1853–1926) and Caesarean delivery in Central Africa (1879)

    http://fn.bmj.com/content/80/3/F250

    Same is true here. Cameras captured this, but we can assume the practice has a much longer history:

    https://www.medicalvideos.com/video/11344/traditional-african-brain-surgery

    For further reading:

    Many treatments we use today were employed by several ancient peoples throughout Africa. Before the European invasion of Africa, medicine in what is now Egypt, Nigeria and South Africa, to name just a few places, was more advanced than medicine in Europe. Some of these practices were the use of plants with salicylic acid for pain (as in aspirin), kaolin for diarrhea (as in Kaopectate), and extracts that were confirmed in the 20th century to kill Gram positive bacteria (2). Other plants used had anticancer properties, caused abortion and treated malaria — and these have been shown to be as effective as many modern-day Western treatments. Furthermore, Africans discovered ouabain, capsicum, physostigmine and reserpine. Medical procedures performed in ancient Africa before they were performed in Europe include vaccination, autopsy, limb traction and broken bone setting, bullet removal, brain surgery, skin grafting, filling of dental cavities, installation of false teeth, what is now known as Caesarean section, anesthesia and tissue cauterization (3). In addition, African cultures preformed surgeries under antiseptic conditions universally when this concept was only emerging in Europe

    http://www.asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/asbmbtoday_article.aspx?id=32437

    I actually went to the trouble to read that ASBMB article. Kind of sad that such obvious rot (Africans invented steam engines? Egyptians wrote textbooks about math 35 000 years ago? West Africans sailed to China in the 13th century and brought back elephants?) is published on the site of what is (or was?) apparently a serious academic society.
    Frankly, white Americans are far too nice to your kind.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    your kind.
     
    Most blacks are decent people. Heck, most Afrocentrists are decent people most of the time.
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  167. Bliss says:
    @Okechukwu

    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks?
     
    If economic success is tied to race to the exclusion of everything else, and if whites have a genetic advantage in economic performance, why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down?
     
    Nobody wants to live among racist whites. But it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that you fringe posters on Unz represent whites broadly. You don't. The America I've experienced isn't the same America before my time. Things can always get better, but they were much worse before.

    As I explained earlier, people move around the globe for economic reasons. It's why most of you on this thread are not writing from your European homelands. If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?


    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel?
     
    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European "medicine" consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn't your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it. They didn't exactly figure it out on their own. If they were never introduced to the wheel it's unlikely they would have it even today.


    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions.
     
    Haiti has a complex and complicated history. I know you eschew complexity and context in your mad rush to deem black people stupid. But fortunately, the real world doesn't work that way, and thankfully, neither does scientific inquiry. What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time. Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they're responsible for the United States as it's presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they’re responsible for the United States as it’s presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    Very true. And the victorious Haitian’s inspired, encouraged and armed Simón Bolivar’s revolt against the Spanish Empire and also inspired the Greek revolt against the Ottoman Empire:

    https://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/Haiti-The-Price-of-Liberation-20141231-0006.html

    “Should I not let it be known to later generations that Alexander Petion is the true liberator of my country?” said Simon Bolivar, the Venezuelan leader who liberated South America from Spanish rule, to Alexandre Petion, the first president of Haiti.

    According to “El Libertador: Writings of Simon Bolivar,” a collection of public and private letters of Bolivar, Haiti not only provided material resources but was also the model for the liberated South American nations. Bolivar structured Bolivia’s first government from the example of Haiti and the Venezuelan constitution was based on the constitution Petion drew up for Haiti. And, of course, he declared slavery illegal in the nascent countries.

    http://www.hougansydney.com/haiti/how-haiti-helped-greece-in-its-fight-for-ndependence

    Many know that Haiti’s help was crucial in the liberation of many Latin American countries, the most remembered being the liberation of Venezuela, however most are unaware that the first Black Republic also helped many other countries well beyond its shores in the Americas. This Article will analyze the role of Haiti in the establishment of Greece, as an independent country.

    Between 1821 and 1832, the Greek revolutionaries waged wars against the Ottoman Empire, which had been ruling most of Greece since 1453. Out of money, supplies and help from their European neighbors, the Greek revolutionaries decided to seek help from a small nation. A nation very far away from theirs, which was not only famous for its own successful revolution; for having defeated the powerful armies of Spain, Britain and France to gain freedom, but also because of Its open-arms policy to all territories fighting for self-determination: Haiti.

    They sent a letter to then Haiti’s president Jean Pierre Boyer, asking him for military and monetary help for their fight against Ottoman rules. Haiti was in financial ruins however. The country had lost nearly all of its sources of revenues in the wars for independence against the French empire. Plus the recent integration of former Spanish colony (modern day Dominican Republic) into Haiti was also having some financial restraint on the Haitian government.

    In a lengthy letter, on January 15th 1822, President Boyer explained to Adamantios Korais, then Governor of Greece, that due to Haiti’s financial situation he would not be able to send money nor men to Greece, but promised to do all that he could to help in their cause for freedom. President Boyer did find a way to help the Greeks; with the letter, he sent a cargaison of 25 tons of coffee, one of the most important commodities of the time, to Adamantios Korais, to be sold on behalf of the greek revolutionaries for the procurement of supplies; thus making Haiti the first country in the world to recognized Greece as an independent country, and the first one outside Europe to help the country of Socrates achieve self-determination. Two months later, Great Britain followed Haiti and recognized Greece as an independent country.

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  168. AaronB says:
    @Okechukwu
    This was observed by a white doctor in 1879 but we can assume that the Africans had hundreds if not thousands of years experience in this practice:

    Robert Felkin MD (1853–1926) and Caesarean delivery in Central Africa (1879)

    http://fn.bmj.com/content/80/3/F250

    Same is true here. Cameras captured this, but we can assume the practice has a much longer history:

    https://www.medicalvideos.com/video/11344/traditional-african-brain-surgery

    For further reading:

    Many treatments we use today were employed by several ancient peoples throughout Africa. Before the European invasion of Africa, medicine in what is now Egypt, Nigeria and South Africa, to name just a few places, was more advanced than medicine in Europe. Some of these practices were the use of plants with salicylic acid for pain (as in aspirin), kaolin for diarrhea (as in Kaopectate), and extracts that were confirmed in the 20th century to kill Gram positive bacteria (2). Other plants used had anticancer properties, caused abortion and treated malaria — and these have been shown to be as effective as many modern-day Western treatments. Furthermore, Africans discovered ouabain, capsicum, physostigmine and reserpine. Medical procedures performed in ancient Africa before they were performed in Europe include vaccination, autopsy, limb traction and broken bone setting, bullet removal, brain surgery, skin grafting, filling of dental cavities, installation of false teeth, what is now known as Caesarean section, anesthesia and tissue cauterization (3). In addition, African cultures preformed surgeries under antiseptic conditions universally when this concept was only emerging in Europe

    http://www.asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/asbmbtoday_article.aspx?id=32437

    They brought out all the heavy guns against you :)

    A backhanded compliment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Why are you such a traitor?

    You have advocated for older whites to die off (including presumably some of your relatives) and keep switching from advocating for Buddhism to Islam to Shintoism and now this Afrotriumphalism?

    What purpose do you serve?

    If your bizarre kind of spiritualism leads to such excessive and useless xenotriumphalism then you are more useless than the old and tired materialist whites you decry.

    Do you have any actual solutions?

    It seems like all you do is either advocate for vague spiritualistic fluff, praise other peoples (including our enemies), argue with those who actually have some idea of the problems we face or, in the few cases where you say something concrete, it is proposals for the betterment of other peoples.

    If you believe you have real solutions then you are welcome to provide them but so far you mainly seem to work as a psychological demoraliser.
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  169. Okechukwu says:
    @songbird

    why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

     

    I believe your starting point is a little off. Russia's nominal GDP is about $ 1.3 trillion. Is the GDP of black Americans greater? I don't believe so, but shall I grant it? In that case, it is mostly not output but transfer of wealth. A true comparison would not be comparing a minority of blacks in a white country (shall we compare Russian Americans to black ones?), but rather comparing Russia to a fully black country like Nigeria which actually as over 40 million more inhabitants. Shall we compare their space programs?

    If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?
     
    As globalist Thomas Friedman likes to say now - the world is (now) flat. Resources like hard coal, which Ireland did not have, can be transported cheaply anywhere. The famine in Ireland was artificial, anyway - caused by the corn laws which had banned importation of food. Famines ended in Ireland when trains were built. Ireland is now one of the richest countries in the world. It is an interesting question what the Nigerians are doing there now though, since it is a country with out great natural resources.

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn’t your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it.
     
    You don't think the horse lords had the wheel? You think they got it off someone else who didn't have draft animals? Or Africans who had zebra, but never domesticated them?

    What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time.
     
    Yellow fever. Same reason the US left Cuba in a hurry. Resistance to tropical diseases are Africans' one superpower, and yellow fever comes from Africa, so they had time to evolve some defences.


    That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.
     
    And other thinly populated frontiers like Alaska, California, the SW, and Texas were all acquired for the US through the brave feats of Haitians fighting off European powers. Not natural westward expansion, as for instance, happened in the opposite direction in Russia.

    A true comparison would not be comparing a minority of blacks in a white country (shall we compare Russian Americans to black ones?), but rather comparing Russia to a fully black country like Nigeria which actually as over 40 million more inhabitants.

    No can do. If you can float data shorn of any context whatsoever, please allow others to do the same. Otherwise you’re the worst kind of hypocrite.

    As globalist Thomas Friedman likes to say now – the world is (now) flat. Resources like hard coal, which Ireland did not have, can be transported cheaply anywhere. The famine in Ireland was artificial, anyway – caused by the corn laws which had banned importation of food

    Cute excuses and rationalizations. I got millions of excuses and rationalizations for Africa.

    You don’t think the horse lords had the wheel? You think they got it off someone else who didn’t have draft animals?

    I suggest you look up the history of the wheel rather than speculating. But I’ll tell you now, if your ancestors had seen an Egyptian or Nubian chariot they might have presumed it was sorcery.

    Or Africans who had zebra, but never domesticated them?

    The zebra is undomesticable. It’s too ornary and unpredictable.

    Yellow fever. Same reason the US left Cuba in a hurry.

    Yellow fever my ass. Whites had lived in Haiti for generations. They were roundly defeated in the field. Whites always make excuses for their military defeats. At Isandlwana, they claimed the guy that hands out ammunition was on a lunch break or something, even though they had every technological advantage including artillery, rockets, repeating rifles and gatling guns.

    And other thinly populated frontiers like Alaska, California, the SW, and Texas were all acquired for the US through the brave feats of Haitians fighting off European powers.

    France was the strongest military power in the world. The US didn’t want to mess with them. They could not seize the territory by force.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    Why is Nigeria so poor? I don't understand it. The British never entered far into the interior until at least 1900. They controlled the whole country for less than 60 yrs. You know how long they were in Ireland? More than 800 yrs. Nigeria has loads of oil. Ireland had none, unless you count peat. Good for heating, but not industry.

    From Wikipedia:

    The earliest well-dated depiction of a wheeled vehicle (here a wagon — four wheels, two axles) is on the Bronocice pot, a c. 3500 – 3350 BCE clay pot excavated in a Funnelbeaker culture settlement in southern Poland.[6]

    The oldest securely dated real wheel-axle combination, that from Stare Gmajne near Ljubljana in Slovenia (Ljubljana Marshes Wooden Wheel) is now dated within two standard deviations to 3340–3030 BCE, the axle to 3360–3045 BCE.[7]
     
    If you think that the archaeological record is incomplete, and it came from somewhere else that is arguable, but don't pretend Europeans didn't have the wheel in 1600 AD, like some Bantu. They had it nearly 5,000 yrs. before the Bantu in South Africa. Though I grant the Nigerian Bantu probably had it before the South African Bantu. Most probable location for the domestication of the horse is the Pontic Caspian Steppe, where the Yamnaya, who were the ancestors of all Europeans, lived, just as Nigeria is the Bantu homeland.

    The zebra is undomesticable. It’s too ornary and unpredictable.
     
    Zebras are fully tamable. Lord Lionel Walter Rothschild proved it by driving around London in a carriage pulled by zebras. Since they are tamable, it follows that they are domesticable. The reason why they never were domesticated is two fold: Africans did not have the inclination, for it is a slow process taking generations, and Europeans had already domesticated the horse and therefore had no need of zebras.
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  170. Okechukwu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    ... why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

     

    1. Because American Negroes live in, benefit from, and accrue massive subsidies from a White society that has enjoyed centuries of unhindered capitalist development.

    Your natural state of development is found in Liberia, a country founded by American Negroes who must at least be commended for going back.

    2. Not true in purchasing-power adjusted terms, anyway.

    1. Because American Negroes live in, benefit from, and accrue massive subsidies from a White society that has enjoyed centuries of unhindered capitalist development.

    The economy was built on the backs of black Americans. Blacks were significantly responsible for the prosperity that caused Europeans to flee their various dysfunctional basketcases for America. There are cogent arguments by noted economists that detail the overwhelmingly positive impact of free black labor on the American economy.

    Your natural state of development is found in Liberia, a country founded by American Negroes who must at least be commended for going back.

    Why don’t you go back to Russia or wherever it is you’re from? Black people have been here for over 400 years, fought in every war and helped build the institutions and systems you are taking advantage of. What are you, an immigrant? Second generation?

    Not true in purchasing-power adjusted terms, anyway.

    PPP is a junk metric.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Oh yeah, blacks totally invented the cotton gin, the mule, the jenny, and the arkwright. And in the absence of negroes, no other source of labor could possibly have been found.

    And needless to say the blacks were responsible for the tremendous improvements in cotton genetics in the 19th century.

    We wuz planterz 'n sheet.

    You're just a nigger. Get over yourself.
    , @Anatoly Karlin

    Blacks were significantly responsible for the prosperity...
     
    Canada and Australia had negligible numbers of Negroes, were both very prosperous and immigration magnet during the 19th century.

    Why don’t you go back to Russia or wherever it is you’re from?
     
    I did.

    When are you repatriating to Nigeria?

    PPP is a junk metric.
     
    PPP is a more legitimate proxy for living standards (in its per capita version), and for national power (which is of geopolitical relevance).

    Nominal is more useful for proxying international financial power, and for performing debt burden calculations, where said debts are denominated in foreign currencies (Russia has negligible national debt).
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  171. @Okechukwu
    This was observed by a white doctor in 1879 but we can assume that the Africans had hundreds if not thousands of years experience in this practice:

    Robert Felkin MD (1853–1926) and Caesarean delivery in Central Africa (1879)

    http://fn.bmj.com/content/80/3/F250

    Same is true here. Cameras captured this, but we can assume the practice has a much longer history:

    https://www.medicalvideos.com/video/11344/traditional-african-brain-surgery

    For further reading:

    Many treatments we use today were employed by several ancient peoples throughout Africa. Before the European invasion of Africa, medicine in what is now Egypt, Nigeria and South Africa, to name just a few places, was more advanced than medicine in Europe. Some of these practices were the use of plants with salicylic acid for pain (as in aspirin), kaolin for diarrhea (as in Kaopectate), and extracts that were confirmed in the 20th century to kill Gram positive bacteria (2). Other plants used had anticancer properties, caused abortion and treated malaria — and these have been shown to be as effective as many modern-day Western treatments. Furthermore, Africans discovered ouabain, capsicum, physostigmine and reserpine. Medical procedures performed in ancient Africa before they were performed in Europe include vaccination, autopsy, limb traction and broken bone setting, bullet removal, brain surgery, skin grafting, filling of dental cavities, installation of false teeth, what is now known as Caesarean section, anesthesia and tissue cauterization (3). In addition, African cultures preformed surgeries under antiseptic conditions universally when this concept was only emerging in Europe

    http://www.asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/asbmbtoday_article.aspx?id=32437

    we wuz neurosurgeonz ‘n sheet

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  172. Bliss says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Given what they’ve been through black Americans are arguably the most successful people on the planet.
     

    You make it sounds like blacks were hindered by slavery and Jim Crowe in America. In fact the exact opposite is true. Consider the many wonderful things it did for them:

    • Worthless African languages replaced with English, the lingua franca
    • Work habits, discipline, and vocational skills taught
    • The "gang system" taught blacks to work together effectively in teams
    • The demands of plantation agriculture meant that men worked, unlike the situation in West Africa
    • Chaotic, dubious "family" structures replaced with the nuclear family
    • Witchcraft or whatever dropped for Christianity

    After slavery but still under white supremacy, blacks had many of the advantages they experienced under slavery (though, sadly, they lost the benefit of physical discipline and the gang system) and gained new ones:

    • Blacks gained literacy--probably the first widely literate black population in the world
    • Thanks to segregation, talented blacks remained within the black community and developed successful businesses, colleges, and other important institutions

    Since gaining freedom blacks have deteriorated rapidly, aside from a small fraction who benefit from the feudal dues that have been awarded to blacks since the late 1960s. And increasingly these feudal dues are claimed by immigrant blacks, including many from Africa who were never enslaved (indeed, their ancestors sold our blacks into slavery in the first place).

    So instead the blacks should be thanking Americans. With the possible exception of the British West Indies, no black nation in the world has so much to thank white people for. The only thing the blacks ought to be upset about is having been set free.

    So, yes, blacks can thrive--but only in the absence of freedom.

    Haiti defeats Napoleon —> Napoleon loses hope in his ambitious plans for the Americas—> Napoleon has to sell off Louisiana for pennies a dollar to the small new nation located next to it (USA) —> half a century later USA offers up these vast undeveloped lands for practically free to Americans and immigrants from northwestern Europe—-> Thorfinnsson’s ancestors take advantage of the offer?

    Seems obvious to me that America and millions of Germans and Scandinavians who immigrated to the Midwest in the 19th century benefited enormously from the Haitian Revolution.

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    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Not my ancestors, they were in Sweden until 1974 (and were forced to suffer in Canada until 1983).

    And I'm happy to give Haitians credit where credit is due. What they accomplished was impressive and they are to be commended for it. Unfortunately that is where Haitian accomplishments end.

    That said, I suspect America would've acquired the Louisiana purchase without that. For examples look how America acquired Florida and the Mexican Cession.
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  173. @Okechukwu

    1. Because American Negroes live in, benefit from, and accrue massive subsidies from a White society that has enjoyed centuries of unhindered capitalist development.
     
    The economy was built on the backs of black Americans. Blacks were significantly responsible for the prosperity that caused Europeans to flee their various dysfunctional basketcases for America. There are cogent arguments by noted economists that detail the overwhelmingly positive impact of free black labor on the American economy.

    Your natural state of development is found in Liberia, a country founded by American Negroes who must at least be commended for going back.
     
    Why don't you go back to Russia or wherever it is you're from? Black people have been here for over 400 years, fought in every war and helped build the institutions and systems you are taking advantage of. What are you, an immigrant? Second generation?

    Not true in purchasing-power adjusted terms, anyway.
     
    PPP is a junk metric.

    Oh yeah, blacks totally invented the cotton gin, the mule, the jenny, and the arkwright. And in the absence of negroes, no other source of labor could possibly have been found.

    And needless to say the blacks were responsible for the tremendous improvements in cotton genetics in the 19th century.

    We wuz planterz ‘n sheet.

    You’re just a nigger. Get over yourself.

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  174. @Bliss
    Haiti defeats Napoleon —> Napoleon loses hope in his ambitious plans for the Americas—> Napoleon has to sell off Louisiana for pennies a dollar to the small new nation located next to it (USA) —> half a century later USA offers up these vast undeveloped lands for practically free to Americans and immigrants from northwestern Europe—-> Thorfinnsson’s ancestors take advantage of the offer?

    Seems obvious to me that America and millions of Germans and Scandinavians who immigrated to the Midwest in the 19th century benefited enormously from the Haitian Revolution.

    Not my ancestors, they were in Sweden until 1974 (and were forced to suffer in Canada until 1983).

    And I’m happy to give Haitians credit where credit is due. What they accomplished was impressive and they are to be commended for it. Unfortunately that is where Haitian accomplishments end.

    That said, I suspect America would’ve acquired the Louisiana purchase without that. For examples look how America acquired Florida and the Mexican Cession.

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  175. Bliss says:
    @German_reader

    Very true. But that does not stop these folks from claiming to be the real Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans.
     
    Only Europeans who claim the ancient Egyptians as their own are fringe white nationalist people, it's not a mainstream view even among nationalists.
    Identification with the Romans is of course completely legitimate for Italians and other Romance peoples, and in a cultural sense for Northern Europeans as well, given the importance of the Roman legacy for Europe. Most Northerners are well aware of their "barbarian" background though and identify to some extent with Celts, Germanics, Slavs.

    Exactly. Not just the Swedes but also the Norwegians, Germans etc. The Italians, Irish, Slavs etc were excluded from these handouts.
     
    Source for that, or is it just a myth about the innate evil of Anglo-Saxons/Nordics?

    Only Europeans who claim the ancient Egyptians as their own are fringe white nationalist people

    They certainly aren’t the fringe in this forum.

    Source for that, or is it just a myth about the innate evil of Anglo-Saxons/Nordics?

    No one is calling the Germans and Scandinavians who immigrated to the Midwest for the free land on offer, evil. They were looking for a better life for their families. Just as the current immigrants to Germany and Scandinavia are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    They certainly aren’t the fringe in this forum.
     
    Umm, obviously there are a lot of strange people on Unz review, but who exactly claimed the ancient Egyptians were Nordics/white Europeans? The only person I see peddling absurd pseudo-history here is this Okechuckwu fellow.

    They were looking for a better life for their families. Just as the current immigrants to Germany and Scandinavia are.
     
    Sorry, doesn't touch me at all, the situation isn't comparable. The hordes currently streaming into my country are invaders who are abusing an asylum and welfare system that was never intended for them. And we have to pay for our own dispossession and cheer about it. No thanks.
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  176. @Okechukwu
    Very cute, Uncle Wong. I had one of your countrymen as my aunt's primary doctor. The dude was a nightmare. He couldn't speak English so we weren't able to communicate with him. He had horrendous hygiene practices, did not follow proper protocols like wearing fresh rubber gloves with each patient or sanitizing his stethoscope after each use. What's more, he had food stains all over his shirt -- all verboten in an environment already teeming with germs and bacteria. Lastly, when I was in the bathroom with this joker he came out of the stall after taking a dump and walked straight out. He didn't even make a pretense of washing his hands. Needless to say, we had a real doctor assigned to our aunt.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9771022/Revealed-3-in-4-of-Britains-danger-doctors-are-trained-abroad.html

    Mexico, Cuba, France, Uganda, Cameroon, Nigeria docs seem particularly bad.

    The country with the best record is Hong Kong. Despite having an average of 773 doctors working in the UK since 2008, none have been struck off or disciplined by the GMC.

    This, er, German fellow does badly: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2541612/German-doctor-killed-British-patient-drug-overdose-sues-dead-mans-sons-miss-dinner.html

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  177. @Okechukwu

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world’s greatest civilizations – lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.
     
    It's impossible to disentangle Ancient Egypt from the black African matrix. However, it most assuredly was not the only black civilization of note. In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible – demolishes the veterinarians.
     
    Sure I knew. But if you think that's going to stop or demoralize hereditarians you're in for a rude awakening. When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they'll fling on the wall hoping some stick. If all else fails they'll troll with evermore ridiculous homemade graphs from some obscure white supremacist website.

    A constant motif here on Unz and similar echo-chambers is the notion that "race deniers" are unwilling to engage the "hard truths" of race and intelligence. But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn't comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview. They clamor seemingly for a national initiative to investigate this subject knowing full well that they will only accept the conclusions they are pining for.

    One of the weird things about Blacks in the West (who are 95% West African) is their desire to pretend to be other people. Egyptian Kangz, East Africans (the Rastas), Ancient Hebrews, Black Muslims. Even Oprah Winfrey says she is Zulu.

    There’s enough to be proud of if you’re a Westerner of West African origin you would think. Metallurgy, Music, Kingdoms etc. Except of course their cousins in Mother Africa sold them, which perhaps makes them less amenable to be associated with West Africa. It’s hard for a Black American to be impressed with Asante gold when they know where it comes from.

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    Its almost northern Europeans like to claim a connection to the ancient Greeks and Romans...so weird. You'd think they have enough to be to be proud of.

    Rhetoric is fun!
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  178. @Bliss

    Only Europeans who claim the ancient Egyptians as their own are fringe white nationalist people
     
    They certainly aren’t the fringe in this forum.

    Source for that, or is it just a myth about the innate evil of Anglo-Saxons/Nordics?
     
    No one is calling the Germans and Scandinavians who immigrated to the Midwest for the free land on offer, evil. They were looking for a better life for their families. Just as the current immigrants to Germany and Scandinavia are.

    They certainly aren’t the fringe in this forum.

    Umm, obviously there are a lot of strange people on Unz review, but who exactly claimed the ancient Egyptians were Nordics/white Europeans? The only person I see peddling absurd pseudo-history here is this Okechuckwu fellow.

    They were looking for a better life for their families. Just as the current immigrants to Germany and Scandinavia are.

    Sorry, doesn’t touch me at all, the situation isn’t comparable. The hordes currently streaming into my country are invaders who are abusing an asylum and welfare system that was never intended for them. And we have to pay for our own dispossession and cheer about it. No thanks.

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  179. @Okechukwu

    1. Because American Negroes live in, benefit from, and accrue massive subsidies from a White society that has enjoyed centuries of unhindered capitalist development.
     
    The economy was built on the backs of black Americans. Blacks were significantly responsible for the prosperity that caused Europeans to flee their various dysfunctional basketcases for America. There are cogent arguments by noted economists that detail the overwhelmingly positive impact of free black labor on the American economy.

    Your natural state of development is found in Liberia, a country founded by American Negroes who must at least be commended for going back.
     
    Why don't you go back to Russia or wherever it is you're from? Black people have been here for over 400 years, fought in every war and helped build the institutions and systems you are taking advantage of. What are you, an immigrant? Second generation?

    Not true in purchasing-power adjusted terms, anyway.
     
    PPP is a junk metric.

    Blacks were significantly responsible for the prosperity…

    Canada and Australia had negligible numbers of Negroes, were both very prosperous and immigration magnet during the 19th century.

    Why don’t you go back to Russia or wherever it is you’re from?

    I did.

    When are you repatriating to Nigeria?

    PPP is a junk metric.

    PPP is a more legitimate proxy for living standards (in its per capita version), and for national power (which is of geopolitical relevance).

    Nominal is more useful for proxying international financial power, and for performing debt burden calculations, where said debts are denominated in foreign currencies (Russia has negligible national debt).

    Read More
    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    Canada and Australia had negligible numbers of Negroes, were both very prosperous and immigration magnet during the 19th century.
     
    Not nearly as much of a magnet as America. Those countries were alternative destinations when the US began turning away "undesirable" whites, employing many of the same arguments those of your ilk use today with respect to people of color (low IQ, criminally inclined, incompatible with western values, etc.). You Russians were among the undesirables. But if we accept that European genetics have this magical quality that misguided race realists attribute to it, why do those Europeans have to go anywhere? Why were they escaping European shithole nations if indeed Europeans are genetically fine-tuned for nation building and excellent governance?

    I did.
     
    Then why do you care about what's going on in the United States? America's problems pale in comparison to Russia's. Ought you not to be focusing on those problems, many of which are existential, rather than wasting your mighty talents writing racist screeds on the Internet? Writings, I might add, which are on the very cusp of violating Article 282 of the Russian statute outlawing hate speech.

    When are you repatriating to Nigeria?
     
    Well, I'm not actually a Nigerian. That's just my heritage. I'm in my country.

    PPP is a more legitimate proxy for living standards (in its per capita version), and for national power (which is of geopolitical relevance).
     
    Nope. PPP is just a theory. It has little real world relevance. Besides, a dollar buys more in Los Angeles than it does in Moscow. And given that Russia is a net importer of most of their consumer goods, the collapse of the ruble makes the cost of living particularly painful. With Russia's GDP per capita at just under $9,000, I'm stunned that the average Russian is able to make ends meet.

    National power is a by-product of economic power. Russia has very little national power. It's nukes are interesting, but they're worthless because they can never be used. For a country of that size, with a population of that size, Russia is very weak by western standards.


    Nominal is more useful for proxying international financial power, and for performing debt burden calculations, where said debts are denominated in foreign currencies (Russia has negligible national debt).
     
    Russia has little international financial power. Its entire economy exists at the whim and with the forbearance of the US Treasury Department, OFAC in particular. Do you know that Russian banks and companies have to observe US sanctions against Russian entities in Russia lest they be shut out of the international financial system? That's the main reason the Duma floated a bill that would criminalize with a prison sentence, the observance of US sanctions within the territory of Russia. But if it ever becomes law they'd have to imprison most of their bankers and oligarchs.
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  180. AaronB says:
    @TelfoedJohn
    One of the weird things about Blacks in the West (who are 95% West African) is their desire to pretend to be other people. Egyptian Kangz, East Africans (the Rastas), Ancient Hebrews, Black Muslims. Even Oprah Winfrey says she is Zulu.

    There's enough to be proud of if you're a Westerner of West African origin you would think. Metallurgy, Music, Kingdoms etc. Except of course their cousins in Mother Africa sold them, which perhaps makes them less amenable to be associated with West Africa. It's hard for a Black American to be impressed with Asante gold when they know where it comes from.

    Its almost northern Europeans like to claim a connection to the ancient Greeks and Romans…so weird. You’d think they have enough to be to be proud of.

    Rhetoric is fun!

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  181. @AaronB
    They brought out all the heavy guns against you :)

    A backhanded compliment.

    Why are you such a traitor?

    You have advocated for older whites to die off (including presumably some of your relatives) and keep switching from advocating for Buddhism to Islam to Shintoism and now this Afrotriumphalism?

    What purpose do you serve?

    If your bizarre kind of spiritualism leads to such excessive and useless xenotriumphalism then you are more useless than the old and tired materialist whites you decry.

    Do you have any actual solutions?

    It seems like all you do is either advocate for vague spiritualistic fluff, praise other peoples (including our enemies), argue with those who actually have some idea of the problems we face or, in the few cases where you say something concrete, it is proposals for the betterment of other peoples.

    If you believe you have real solutions then you are welcome to provide them but so far you mainly seem to work as a psychological demoraliser.

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    • Agree: German_reader
    • Replies: @AaronB
    You do not understand me - and that is understandable because modern Westerners have lost the capacity to think multi-dimensionally.

    I have explained my reasoning multiple times - try clicking on my handle.

    You seek to perpetuate black dysfunction. I do not think this serves the interests of whites. In America today, blacks are taught that the values of civilization are "white". If blacks can learn to think of themselves as the inheritors of great civilizations, they will strive to live up to these standards.

    Secondly, it is humiliating for white people today to "compete" with blacks. You do not compete with people who are so far beneath you (today). It is frankly embarrassing watching everyone here argue with blacks over who is more civilized. It merely shows how far white self-respect has fallen. A smile and a shrug would show more self-respect. The correct white attitude towards blacks should be paternalism. You have lost the capacity to adopt the "superior" pose.

    Thirdly, Jews have formed a strategic alliance with blacks against whites. It is stupid not to seek to turn the tables on Jews. Jews have self-respect - the idea of vying with blacks for civilizational honor would strike them as absurd. Therefore they have no problem stroking black egos as they weaponize them against you. Doing this back to Jews is apparently beyond the strategic comprehension of today's whites.

    Fourthly, while the foregoing is regrettably Machiavellian - in the true sense, as utilizing bad means for moral ends, with regret. Not gleefully, with relish, as the "redpilled" like to imagine themselves doing - I believe the path back to white self-respect lies through regaining the "true" moral high ground (true, as in - not pathological altruism). I believe "the" major source of self-respect is believing oneself to be firmly grounded in moral values. As being "good". Even the Nazis believed they were in the service of "good". No major political movement can succeed in attracting the passion and loyalty of large numbers of people unless it can offer a vision of moral good.

    Genetic interests are insufficient except for a small fringe. HBD is insufficient. These are merely material factors. People do not live on bread alone. And they will happily sacrifice their lives for a moral vision.

    The history of the Jews should have taught us the importance of moral factors - a small people dominating a much larger one that has lost its moral vision, even though the larger group possesses vastly more intelligent and capable people.

    We are making the same mistakes that has landed us in this hot mess. True morality means respect for others and oneself. Respecting others, you are firmly grounded in a sense of right, and you are armored against guilt. Knowing yourself to be "good", you fearlessly stand up for yourself and fight for your interests. You know you are aligned with "right".

    Finally, I do not believe humiliating other groups is necessary for us to abandon our pathological altruism and regain our self-respect. That is the losers way.

    And finally finally, the crown jewel of my argument - I do not believe in hatred but in love. I love whites and want to see them flourish and thrive. But not at the expense of blacks.

    I could expand on all this at length, but this is enough for now.

    I am frankly embarrassed at having to say out loud do much that should be implicitly understood - but the times are bad, and whites have grown stupid.

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  182. Bliss says:
    @Okechukwu

    If they have been through so much, why are they the richest, most successful blacks?
     
    If economic success is tied to race to the exclusion of everything else, and if whites have a genetic advantage in economic performance, why is the GDP output of 37 million black Americas larger than the GDP output of 144 million Russians?

    Why do Africans have a boundless, unrestrained desire to live among racist whites who keep them down?
     
    Nobody wants to live among racist whites. But it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that you fringe posters on Unz represent whites broadly. You don't. The America I've experienced isn't the same America before my time. Things can always get better, but they were much worse before.

    As I explained earlier, people move around the globe for economic reasons. It's why most of you on this thread are not writing from your European homelands. If all it takes is white skin, why did your forebearers not make it work in your ancestral homelands? Why was Ireland, for example, virtually depopulated over a potato fungus?


    Did you also know that there were fully mechanical clocks in Europe before many Bantu even began using the wheel?
     
    Did you know that the Bantu were performing brain surgeries, cesarean sections and other complex medical procedures at a time when European "medicine" consistent almost exclusively of blood letting, trinkets and superstitious hocus pocus?

    Who invented the wheel? It certainly wasn't your ancestors. They were only able to adapt it once they were exposed to it. They didn't exactly figure it out on their own. If they were never introduced to the wheel it's unlikely they would have it even today.


    Haiti has been ruled the longest in the West. It is a real country with reasonable dimensions.
     
    Haiti has a complex and complicated history. I know you eschew complexity and context in your mad rush to deem black people stupid. But fortunately, the real world doesn't work that way, and thankfully, neither does scientific inquiry. What you do need to know about Haiti is that as newly liberated slaves they out-thought, out-fought, out-strategized and defeated the three most powerful European empires of the time. Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they're responsible for the United States as it's presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they’re responsible for the United States as it’s presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    Exactly right. What would the American Continent be like today if the Haitians had not defeated the French? If Napoleon had not been demoralized by his defeat would we be speaking French today?

    Here’s another debt America owes to Haiti, which has been whitewashed out of history: Black and Mulatto Haitian volunteers fought alongside Americans in the Revolutionary War.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2010/1/16/825715/-

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    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Not being willing to pay for their fair share of the national defense is an awful reason for launching a separatist war.

    The idea that American war of independence was a glorious event should fade away.

    I think the only way it could possibly be justified was that it released the western frontier from the London-imposed limits to settlement.

    , @Thorfinnsson
    Americans would've overrun the Louisiana territory and conquered it...or it would be full of Frenchmen.

    Fuck off nigger. You belong to a worthless, inferior race that is a severe drag on humanity. Submit!
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  183. songbird says:
    @Okechukwu

    A true comparison would not be comparing a minority of blacks in a white country (shall we compare Russian Americans to black ones?), but rather comparing Russia to a fully black country like Nigeria which actually as over 40 million more inhabitants.
     
    No can do. If you can float data shorn of any context whatsoever, please allow others to do the same. Otherwise you're the worst kind of hypocrite.

    As globalist Thomas Friedman likes to say now – the world is (now) flat. Resources like hard coal, which Ireland did not have, can be transported cheaply anywhere. The famine in Ireland was artificial, anyway – caused by the corn laws which had banned importation of food
     
    Cute excuses and rationalizations. I got millions of excuses and rationalizations for Africa.

    You don’t think the horse lords had the wheel? You think they got it off someone else who didn’t have draft animals?
     
    I suggest you look up the history of the wheel rather than speculating. But I'll tell you now, if your ancestors had seen an Egyptian or Nubian chariot they might have presumed it was sorcery.

    Or Africans who had zebra, but never domesticated them?
     
    The zebra is undomesticable. It's too ornary and unpredictable.

    Yellow fever. Same reason the US left Cuba in a hurry.
     
    Yellow fever my ass. Whites had lived in Haiti for generations. They were roundly defeated in the field. Whites always make excuses for their military defeats. At Isandlwana, they claimed the guy that hands out ammunition was on a lunch break or something, even though they had every technological advantage including artillery, rockets, repeating rifles and gatling guns.

    And other thinly populated frontiers like Alaska, California, the SW, and Texas were all acquired for the US through the brave feats of Haitians fighting off European powers.
     
    France was the strongest military power in the world. The US didn't want to mess with them. They could not seize the territory by force.

    Why is Nigeria so poor? I don’t understand it. The British never entered far into the interior until at least 1900. They controlled the whole country for less than 60 yrs. You know how long they were in Ireland? More than 800 yrs. Nigeria has loads of oil. Ireland had none, unless you count peat. Good for heating, but not industry.

    From Wikipedia:

    The earliest well-dated depiction of a wheeled vehicle (here a wagon — four wheels, two axles) is on the Bronocice pot, a c. 3500 – 3350 BCE clay pot excavated in a Funnelbeaker culture settlement in southern Poland.[6]

    The oldest securely dated real wheel-axle combination, that from Stare Gmajne near Ljubljana in Slovenia (Ljubljana Marshes Wooden Wheel) is now dated within two standard deviations to 3340–3030 BCE, the axle to 3360–3045 BCE.[7]

    If you think that the archaeological record is incomplete, and it came from somewhere else that is arguable, but don’t pretend Europeans didn’t have the wheel in 1600 AD, like some Bantu. They had it nearly 5,000 yrs. before the Bantu in South Africa. Though I grant the Nigerian Bantu probably had it before the South African Bantu. Most probable location for the domestication of the horse is the Pontic Caspian Steppe, where the Yamnaya, who were the ancestors of all Europeans, lived, just as Nigeria is the Bantu homeland.

    The zebra is undomesticable. It’s too ornary and unpredictable.

    Zebras are fully tamable. Lord Lionel Walter Rothschild proved it by driving around London in a carriage pulled by zebras. Since they are tamable, it follows that they are domesticable. The reason why they never were domesticated is two fold: Africans did not have the inclination, for it is a slow process taking generations, and Europeans had already domesticated the horse and therefore had no need of zebras.

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  184. anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @Okechukwu

    Why not become worthy of the glorious civilization of Egypt once again? Blacks are obviously capable of civilization as they made a substantial ethnic contribution to one of the world’s greatest civilizations – lets use that as something to emulate now in the modern world, where blacks are in such bad shape.
     
    It's impossible to disentangle Ancient Egypt from the black African matrix. However, it most assuredly was not the only black civilization of note. In Western Africa, where my parents are from, we can look with pride to a multitude of civilizations and kingdoms, including those that were situated in present-day Nigeria such as Benin.

    Btw, did you know that the black/white school achievement gap in Britain has completely closed? Pretty incredible – demolishes the veterinarians.
     
    Sure I knew. But if you think that's going to stop or demoralize hereditarians you're in for a rude awakening. When confronted with inconvenient data they simply redouble their efforts and reach deeper into their bag of pseudoscientific graffiti which they'll fling on the wall hoping some stick. If all else fails they'll troll with evermore ridiculous homemade graphs from some obscure white supremacist website.

    A constant motif here on Unz and similar echo-chambers is the notion that "race deniers" are unwilling to engage the "hard truths" of race and intelligence. But the reality is, to the extent that anyone wants to broach the subject it is so-called race realists (i.e., racists) who make discussion impossible. Because they reflexively reject any idea, any concept or any piece of information that doesn't comport with their racialist preconceptions and worldview. They clamor seemingly for a national initiative to investigate this subject knowing full well that they will only accept the conclusions they are pining for.

    The best rapper in the world is a white man. You can’t even win at the fields you create.

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  185. dfordoom says: • Website
    @reiner Tor

    the Nazis? They were not particularly known for good architecture
     
    I disagree.

    I think the Nazi architecture (really, Hitler’s architecture - architecture being his hobby, he personally overlooked the planning of all major buildings) was impressive. The Reich Chancellery building had to be demolished, because they thought it would be too impressive and thus preserve Hitler’s name or something. The building of the Reich Aviation Ministry was also impressive (and modernist - Hitler thought that only a modern building was good enough for such a modern function), it still stands to this day (housing the German ministry of finance).

    But most of what they were planning to build never got built. The usual criticism is that these plans were megalomaniacal, typical of a totalitarian dictatorship like Nazi Germany. Well, I guess that’s the reason why no skyscrapers were ever built in democratic countries - they just look too megalomaniacal.

    I think the Nazi architecture (really, Hitler’s architecture – architecture being his hobby, he personally overlooked the planning of all major buildings) was impressive.

    You can accuse the Nazis of many things but they had a fine aesthetic sense. Especially when compared to the unremitting ugliness and horror of the aesthetics that liberalism has led to.

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  186. @Bliss

    Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they’re responsible for the United States as it’s presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.
     
    Exactly right. What would the American Continent be like today if the Haitians had not defeated the French? If Napoleon had not been demoralized by his defeat would we be speaking French today?

    Here’s another debt America owes to Haiti, which has been whitewashed out of history: Black and Mulatto Haitian volunteers fought alongside Americans in the Revolutionary War.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2010/1/16/825715/-

    Not being willing to pay for their fair share of the national defense is an awful reason for launching a separatist war.

    The idea that American war of independence was a glorious event should fade away.

    I think the only way it could possibly be justified was that it released the western frontier from the London-imposed limits to settlement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bliss

    The idea that American war of independence was a glorious event should fade away.
     
    You got a problem with the Enlightenment? You would rather live under a hereditary monarchy and aristocracy?

    I don’t see how one can argue against rationalism, secularism and meritocratic egalitarianism.
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  187. @Bliss

    Another thing you need to know about Haiti is that they’re responsible for the United States as it’s presently constituted. Because after being thoroughly defeated and humiliated in Haiti, Napoleon bailed out of this hemisphere and virtually gave away the Louisiana territory to the United States. That territory comprises about 1/3 of the United States.
     
    Exactly right. What would the American Continent be like today if the Haitians had not defeated the French? If Napoleon had not been demoralized by his defeat would we be speaking French today?

    Here’s another debt America owes to Haiti, which has been whitewashed out of history: Black and Mulatto Haitian volunteers fought alongside Americans in the Revolutionary War.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2010/1/16/825715/-

    Americans would’ve overrun the Louisiana territory and conquered it…or it would be full of Frenchmen.

    Fuck off nigger. You belong to a worthless, inferior race that is a severe drag on humanity. Submit!

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    • Replies: @Bliss
    You are yet another proof that money can’t buy class. But you sure love to pretend like you are some kind of pompous aristocrat. Lol.

    You are just trash that got lucky with that 160 acres of prime midwestern farm land your serf ancestors got for free. Admit it.
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  188. Bliss says:
    @Thorfinnsson
    Americans would've overrun the Louisiana territory and conquered it...or it would be full of Frenchmen.

    Fuck off nigger. You belong to a worthless, inferior race that is a severe drag on humanity. Submit!

    You are yet another proof that money can’t buy class. But you sure love to pretend like you are some kind of pompous aristocrat. Lol.

    You are just trash that got lucky with that 160 acres of prime midwestern farm land your serf ancestors got for free. Admit it.

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    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Wrong nigger.

    We're aristocrats in the old country and the new country.

    No serfdom in our family ever.

    Meanwhile you're just a fucking nigger.

    Hope you have a warm place to shit in.

    SUBMIT!

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  189. @Bliss
    You are yet another proof that money can’t buy class. But you sure love to pretend like you are some kind of pompous aristocrat. Lol.

    You are just trash that got lucky with that 160 acres of prime midwestern farm land your serf ancestors got for free. Admit it.

    Wrong nigger.

    We’re aristocrats in the old country and the new country.

    No serfdom in our family ever.

    Meanwhile you’re just a fucking nigger.

    Hope you have a warm place to shit in.

    SUBMIT!

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    • Replies: @Bliss

    We’re aristocrats in the old country and the new country.
     
    Class = Character

    It is pretty obvious you are as low class as they come.
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  190. AaronB says:
    @Hyperborean
    Why are you such a traitor?

    You have advocated for older whites to die off (including presumably some of your relatives) and keep switching from advocating for Buddhism to Islam to Shintoism and now this Afrotriumphalism?

    What purpose do you serve?

    If your bizarre kind of spiritualism leads to such excessive and useless xenotriumphalism then you are more useless than the old and tired materialist whites you decry.

    Do you have any actual solutions?

    It seems like all you do is either advocate for vague spiritualistic fluff, praise other peoples (including our enemies), argue with those who actually have some idea of the problems we face or, in the few cases where you say something concrete, it is proposals for the betterment of other peoples.

    If you believe you have real solutions then you are welcome to provide them but so far you mainly seem to work as a psychological demoraliser.

    You do not understand me – and that is understandable because modern Westerners have lost the capacity to think multi-dimensionally.

    I have explained my reasoning multiple times – try clicking on my handle.

    You seek to perpetuate black dysfunction. I do not think this serves the interests of whites. In America today, blacks are taught that the values of civilization are “white”. If blacks can learn to think of themselves as the inheritors of great civilizations, they will strive to live up to these standards.

    Secondly, it is humiliating for white people today to “compete” with blacks. You do not compete with people who are so far beneath you (today). It is frankly embarrassing watching everyone here argue with blacks over who is more civilized. It merely shows how far white self-respect has fallen. A smile and a shrug would show more self-respect. The correct white attitude towards blacks should be paternalism. You have lost the capacity to adopt the “superior” pose.

    Thirdly, Jews have formed a strategic alliance with blacks against whites. It is stupid not to seek to turn the tables on Jews. Jews have self-respect – the idea of vying with blacks for civilizational honor would strike them as absurd. Therefore they have no problem stroking black egos as they weaponize them against you. Doing this back to Jews is apparently beyond the strategic comprehension of today’s whites.

    Fourthly, while the foregoing is regrettably Machiavellian – in the true sense, as utilizing bad means for moral ends, with regret. Not gleefully, with relish, as the “redpilled” like to imagine themselves doing – I believe the path back to white self-respect lies through regaining the “true” moral high ground (true, as in – not pathological altruism). I believe “the” major source of self-respect is believing oneself to be firmly grounded in moral values. As being “good”. Even the Nazis believed they were in the service of “good”. No major political movement can succeed in attracting the passion and loyalty of large numbers of people unless it can offer a vision of moral good.

    Genetic interests are insufficient except for a small fringe. HBD is insufficient. These are merely material factors. People do not live on bread alone. And they will happily sacrifice their lives for a moral vision.

    The history of the Jews should have taught us the importance of moral factors – a small people dominating a much larger one that has lost its moral vision, even though the larger group possesses vastly more intelligent and capable people.

    We are making the same mistakes that has landed us in this hot mess. True morality means respect for others and oneself. Respecting others, you are firmly grounded in a sense of right, and you are armored against guilt. Knowing yourself to be “good”, you fearlessly stand up for yourself and fight for your interests. You know you are aligned with “right”.

    Finally, I do not believe humiliating other groups is necessary for us to abandon our pathological altruism and regain our self-respect. That is the losers way.

    And finally finally, the crown jewel of my argument – I do not believe in hatred but in love. I love whites and want to see them flourish and thrive. But not at the expense of blacks.

    I could expand on all this at length, but this is enough for now.

    I am frankly embarrassed at having to say out loud do much that should be implicitly understood – but the times are bad, and whites have grown stupid.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    Honestly, I think Egyptians are not willing to share ancient Egypt with blacks. Black heritage in order to have a firm base can't be about a turf war. It has to be either historical (true - and there are at least some things) and/or it has got to be mythological, as distinct from psuedo-historical. Or even a combination of myth and history, but not made-up history.

    History is what it is. We cannot change it, except by discovery. That is why I favor mythology. Wakanda has such a great appeal for blacks that it is hard not to notice. Some of the money misspent on trying to fix black social problems externally should be repurposed to make black entertainment with Wakanda stories - always with high moral values and always taking place in Africa and always starring Africans, so they can claim it as their own.

    If Wakanda is fiction, they should be inspired to move back to Africa and make a true Wakanda. Meanwhile, information about the outside world should be curtailed, so only their leaders can access it. They need to get out of others' shadows and compete with each other, not with other groups. That is why they don't like whites - they compete with whites. Jews being mostly in a higher economic bracket compete with blacks far less often. That is why they ally with each other.

    , @Hyperborean

    You seek to perpetuate black dysfunction. I do not think this serves the interests of whites. In America today, blacks are taught that the values of civilization are “white”. If blacks can learn to think of themselves as the unverified of great civilizations, they will strive to live up to these standards.
     
    Somehow despite the fact that blacks in America for several decades have been told about the great and ever-so-important achievements of blacks (Inventors! Explorers! Soldiers!) both in America and in other countries few American blacks seem to aspire to something greater or improving the situation of their race.

    The problem with blacks isn't their dysfunction in itself it is that their dysfunction affects and even to an extent spreads to other people.

    Secondly, it is humiliating for white people today to “compete” with blacks. You do not compete with people who are so far beneath you (today). It is frankly embarrassing watching everyone here argue with blacks over who is more civilized. It merely shows how far white self-respect has fallen. A smile and a shrug would show more self-respect. The correct white attitude towards blacks should be paternalism.
     
    Perhaps people wouldn't have to argue with them so much if people like you didn't furnish the flames of their fantasies. If American whites were simply dealing with 40 million hikikomori poasting about muh flying pyramids then it wouldn't be such a problem but since these fantasy dreams cause them to lash out at whites when they see the disparity between their fantasies and real life it is dangerous to encourage this afrotriumphalism.

    No, the correct solution is either establishing a regime of iron-hard discipline, creating an independent state and conducting population transfers, encouraging self-repatriation to Africa or sterilising them.

    Thirdly, Jews have formed a strategic alliance with blacks against whites. It is stupid not to seek to turn the tables on Jews. Jews have self-respect – the idea of vying with blacks for civilizational honor would strike them as absurd. Therefore they have no problem stroking black egos as they weaponize them against you. Doing this back to Jews is apparently beyond the strategic comprehension of today’s whites.
     
    And how exactly are we supposed to do this? Blacks (muslims excepted) just see Jews as either whites or as a sub-set of whites and from their perspective that is rather reasonable. Any attack on whites will hit us as well. Letting the rapid dog grow big and expand its territory to get rid of the parasite just replaces one problem with another problem.

    Fourthly, while the foregoing is regrettably Machiavellian – in the true sense, as utilizing bad means for moral ends, with regret. Not gleefully, with relish, as the “redpilled” like to imagine themselves doing – I believe the path back to white self-respect lies through regaining the “true” moral high ground (true, as in – not pathological altruism). I believe “the” major source of self-respect is believing oneself to be firmly grounded in moral values. As being “good”. Even the Nazis believed they were in the service of “good”. No major political movement can succeed in attracting the passion and loyalty of large numbers of people unless it can offer a vision of moral good.
     
    Nice words, but they are not really substantial. Do you not think nationalists in say, France or Italy, believe they are doing something good for their people and that they are in the right?

    Genetic interests are insufficient except for a small fringe. HBD is insufficient. These are merely material factors. People do not live on bread alone. And they will happily sacrifice their lives for a moral vision.
     
    We have a moral vision - nationalism - in fact we have had it for a long time.

    The history of the Jews should have taught us the importance of moral factors – a small people dominating a much larger one that has lost its moral vision, even though the larger group possesses vastly more intelligent and capable people.
     
    Considering that Jewish influence echoes far throughout time, even during periods when Europeans had a moral vision as you call it, clearly the issue goes much deeper than that.

    We are making the same mistakes that has landed us in this hot mess. True morality means respect for others and oneself. Respecting others, you are firmly grounded in a sense of right, and you are armored against guilt.
     
    Respecting others doesn't help armour us against guilt, only respect for ourselves does that. Especially in an age when "respecting others" means letting others walk all over you.
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  191. Bliss says:
    @Hyperborean
    Not being willing to pay for their fair share of the national defense is an awful reason for launching a separatist war.

    The idea that American war of independence was a glorious event should fade away.

    I think the only way it could possibly be justified was that it released the western frontier from the London-imposed limits to settlement.

    The idea that American war of independence was a glorious event should fade away.

    You got a problem with the Enlightenment? You would rather live under a hereditary monarchy and aristocracy?

    I don’t see how one can argue against rationalism, secularism and meritocratic egalitarianism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB

    I don’t see how one can argue against rationalism, secularism and meritocratic egalitarianism.
     
    Really? Its quite easy. It's basically what I do all the time.
    , @Hyperborean
    The reason why the American war of independence was not glorious was that Britain had long since had a liberal regime and was liberalising ever further and the Americans in the end just created a mini-Britain.

    As for the type of regime I'd prefer, I think I would like a technocratic dictatorship led by a collective party/institutional leadership utilising dead emperor worship.

    , @dfordoom

    You got a problem with the Enlightenment?
     
    I got a whole pile of problems with the Enlightenment. It was a seriously bad idea.

    You would rather live under a hereditary monarchy and aristocracy?
     
    Yes please.
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  192. Bliss says:
    @Thorfinnsson
    Wrong nigger.

    We're aristocrats in the old country and the new country.

    No serfdom in our family ever.

    Meanwhile you're just a fucking nigger.

    Hope you have a warm place to shit in.

    SUBMIT!

    We’re aristocrats in the old country and the new country.

    Class = Character

    It is pretty obvious you are as low class as they come.

    Read More
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  193. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    The idea that American war of independence was a glorious event should fade away.
     
    You got a problem with the Enlightenment? You would rather live under a hereditary monarchy and aristocracy?

    I don’t see how one can argue against rationalism, secularism and meritocratic egalitarianism.

    I don’t see how one can argue against rationalism, secularism and meritocratic egalitarianism.

    Really? Its quite easy. It’s basically what I do all the time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Not very convincingly though.
    , @Bliss
    You do it all the time without explaining why. Just saying that rationalism, secularism etc have made whites stupid and weak is not an explanation. It is not even a correct observation. You seem to be out of touch with reality.
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  194. @AaronB

    I don’t see how one can argue against rationalism, secularism and meritocratic egalitarianism.
     
    Really? Its quite easy. It's basically what I do all the time.

    Not very convincingly though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    To you :) I'm quite convinced by it.
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  195. Bliss says:
    @AaronB

    I don’t see how one can argue against rationalism, secularism and meritocratic egalitarianism.
     
    Really? Its quite easy. It's basically what I do all the time.

    You do it all the time without explaining why. Just saying that rationalism, secularism etc have made whites stupid and weak is not an explanation. It is not even a correct observation. You seem to be out of touch with reality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    What do you mean - I explain it all the time at length and in depth. Its like no one clicks on my handle and reads my beautiful comments...

    TL:DR version -

    The things worth living for - beauty, nobility, and love - cannot be apprehended by logic. The more you train your mind to think exclusively logically, you less you can see these things.

    Being secular means believing only in matter - yet the things worth living for cannot be perceived by the senses which perceive matter.

    The more you believe only in matter - are secular - the less worthwhile life becomes.

    Its pretty straightforward - but its struggle to see what's right in front of your nose, as some great man said somewhere.
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  196. AaronB says:
    @German_reader
    Not very convincingly though.

    To you :) I’m quite convinced by it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    How many of your interlocutors on Unz review have you managed to convince so far?
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  197. @AaronB
    To you :) I'm quite convinced by it.

    How many of your interlocutors on Unz review have you managed to convince so far?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Precisely zero. A tiny few already agreed with me, to some extent. You know who they are...few enough to count on the fingers of one hand.

    As for the invisible audience, who Ron says is the overwhelming majority of visitors to this site, who knows?

    But its why I'm retreating to my mountain hut and forming a monastery...the times are bad...

    When they are propitious again, we shall burst forth to set the world ablaze...
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  198. AaronB says:
    @Bliss
    You do it all the time without explaining why. Just saying that rationalism, secularism etc have made whites stupid and weak is not an explanation. It is not even a correct observation. You seem to be out of touch with reality.

    What do you mean – I explain it all the time at length and in depth. Its like no one clicks on my handle and reads my beautiful comments…

    TL:DR version –

    The things worth living for – beauty, nobility, and love – cannot be apprehended by logic. The more you train your mind to think exclusively logically, you less you can see these things.

    Being secular means believing only in matter – yet the things worth living for cannot be perceived by the senses which perceive matter.

    The more you believe only in matter – are secular – the less worthwhile life becomes.

    Its pretty straightforward – but its struggle to see what’s right in front of your nose, as some great man said somewhere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bliss

    Being secular means believing only in matter – yet the things worth living for cannot be perceived by the senses which perceive matter.
     
    You have bought into the wrong meaning of the word secularism. Secularism is not atheism. It is the political doctrine of Separation of Church and State. It is the antithesis of Theocracy.

    Do you still have a problem with the correct meaning of secularism?
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  199. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader
    I actually went to the trouble to read that ASBMB article. Kind of sad that such obvious rot (Africans invented steam engines? Egyptians wrote textbooks about math 35 000 years ago? West Africans sailed to China in the 13th century and brought back elephants?) is published on the site of what is (or was?) apparently a serious academic society.
    Frankly, white Americans are far too nice to your kind.

    your kind.

    Most blacks are decent people. Heck, most Afrocentrists are decent people most of the time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    The "conservative columnist" for the NYT David Brooks, who is something of an Afro-centrist (calls St. Augustine black, not sure if he believes in Yukab), is pretty evil, though he is not black, so perhaps he is not a true Afrocentrist.
    , @German_reader

    Most blacks are decent people
     
    I'm not sure about that, but certainly there are lots of blacks who are at least smart enough not to believe such absurd fairy tales as Okechukwu...who is simply a tedious idiot who's got nothing but blackness and the evil of the white man on his mind.
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  200. AaronB says:
    @German_reader
    How many of your interlocutors on Unz review have you managed to convince so far?

    Precisely zero. A tiny few already agreed with me, to some extent. You know who they are…few enough to count on the fingers of one hand.

    As for the invisible audience, who Ron says is the overwhelming majority of visitors to this site, who knows?

    But its why I’m retreating to my mountain hut and forming a monastery…the times are bad…

    When they are propitious again, we shall burst forth to set the world ablaze…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    But its why I’m retreating to my mountain hut and forming a monastery…the times are bad…
     
    There's nothing stopping you. Lots of people do this already, maybe they can help you set up.
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  201. songbird says:
    @AaronB
    You do not understand me - and that is understandable because modern Westerners have lost the capacity to think multi-dimensionally.

    I have explained my reasoning multiple times - try clicking on my handle.

    You seek to perpetuate black dysfunction. I do not think this serves the interests of whites. In America today, blacks are taught that the values of civilization are "white". If blacks can learn to think of themselves as the inheritors of great civilizations, they will strive to live up to these standards.

    Secondly, it is humiliating for white people today to "compete" with blacks. You do not compete with people who are so far beneath you (today). It is frankly embarrassing watching everyone here argue with blacks over who is more civilized. It merely shows how far white self-respect has fallen. A smile and a shrug would show more self-respect. The correct white attitude towards blacks should be paternalism. You have lost the capacity to adopt the "superior" pose.

    Thirdly, Jews have formed a strategic alliance with blacks against whites. It is stupid not to seek to turn the tables on Jews. Jews have self-respect - the idea of vying with blacks for civilizational honor would strike them as absurd. Therefore they have no problem stroking black egos as they weaponize them against you. Doing this back to Jews is apparently beyond the strategic comprehension of today's whites.

    Fourthly, while the foregoing is regrettably Machiavellian - in the true sense, as utilizing bad means for moral ends, with regret. Not gleefully, with relish, as the "redpilled" like to imagine themselves doing - I believe the path back to white self-respect lies through regaining the "true" moral high ground (true, as in - not pathological altruism). I believe "the" major source of self-respect is believing oneself to be firmly grounded in moral values. As being "good". Even the Nazis believed they were in the service of "good". No major political movement can succeed in attracting the passion and loyalty of large numbers of people unless it can offer a vision of moral good.

    Genetic interests are insufficient except for a small fringe. HBD is insufficient. These are merely material factors. People do not live on bread alone. And they will happily sacrifice their lives for a moral vision.

    The history of the Jews should have taught us the importance of moral factors - a small people dominating a much larger one that has lost its moral vision, even though the larger group possesses vastly more intelligent and capable people.

    We are making the same mistakes that has landed us in this hot mess. True morality means respect for others and oneself. Respecting others, you are firmly grounded in a sense of right, and you are armored against guilt. Knowing yourself to be "good", you fearlessly stand up for yourself and fight for your interests. You know you are aligned with "right".

    Finally, I do not believe humiliating other groups is necessary for us to abandon our pathological altruism and regain our self-respect. That is the losers way.

    And finally finally, the crown jewel of my argument - I do not believe in hatred but in love. I love whites and want to see them flourish and thrive. But not at the expense of blacks.

    I could expand on all this at length, but this is enough for now.

    I am frankly embarrassed at having to say out loud do much that should be implicitly understood - but the times are bad, and whites have grown stupid.

    Honestly, I think Egyptians are not willing to share ancient Egypt with blacks. Black heritage in order to have a firm base can’t be about a turf war. It has to be either historical (true – and there are at least some things) and/or it has got to be mythological, as distinct from psuedo-historical. Or even a combination of myth and history, but not made-up history.

    History is what it is. We cannot change it, except by discovery. That is why I favor mythology. Wakanda has such a great appeal for blacks that it is hard not to notice. Some of the money misspent on trying to fix black social problems externally should be repurposed to make black entertainment with Wakanda stories – always with high moral values and always taking place in Africa and always starring Africans, so they can claim it as their own.

    If Wakanda is fiction, they should be inspired to move back to Africa and make a true Wakanda. Meanwhile, information about the outside world should be curtailed, so only their leaders can access it. They need to get out of others’ shadows and compete with each other, not with other groups. That is why they don’t like whites – they compete with whites. Jews being mostly in a higher economic bracket compete with blacks far less often. That is why they ally with each other.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Wakanda, Egypt, it's all good. Objective history is a myth.

    High level spots that blacks covet are monopolized by Jews - and the general economic situation such hurts low wage workers is Jewish promoted. It would be quite easy to ally with blacks against Jews if you had imagination.

    Blacks compete with Jews as well as whites, and are hurt by Jewish promoted policies.
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  202. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB
    Precisely zero. A tiny few already agreed with me, to some extent. You know who they are...few enough to count on the fingers of one hand.

    As for the invisible audience, who Ron says is the overwhelming majority of visitors to this site, who knows?

    But its why I'm retreating to my mountain hut and forming a monastery...the times are bad...

    When they are propitious again, we shall burst forth to set the world ablaze...

    But its why I’m retreating to my mountain hut and forming a monastery…the times are bad…

    There’s nothing stopping you. Lots of people do this already, maybe they can help you set up.

    Read More
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  203. songbird says:
    @Anon

    your kind.
     
    Most blacks are decent people. Heck, most Afrocentrists are decent people most of the time.

    The “conservative columnist” for the NYT David Brooks, who is something of an Afro-centrist (calls St. Augustine black, not sure if he believes in Yukab), is pretty evil, though he is not black, so perhaps he is not a true Afrocentrist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    As early as 2003, Brooks wrote favorably of same-sex marriage, pointing out that marriage is a traditional conservative value. Rather than opposing it, he wrote: "We should insist on gay marriage. We should regard it as scandalous that two people could claim to love each other and not want to sanctify their love with marriage and fidelity.... It's going to be up to conservatives to make the important, moral case for marriage, including gay marriage."
     
    Really, with such conservatives, do we even need liberals?
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  204. @songbird
    The "conservative columnist" for the NYT David Brooks, who is something of an Afro-centrist (calls St. Augustine black, not sure if he believes in Yukab), is pretty evil, though he is not black, so perhaps he is not a true Afrocentrist.

    As early as 2003, Brooks wrote favorably of same-sex marriage, pointing out that marriage is a traditional conservative value. Rather than opposing it, he wrote: “We should insist on gay marriage. We should regard it as scandalous that two people could claim to love each other and not want to sanctify their love with marriage and fidelity…. It’s going to be up to conservatives to make the important, moral case for marriage, including gay marriage.”

    Really, with such conservatives, do we even need liberals?

    Read More
    • Agree: songbird, dfordoom
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  205. @AaronB
    You do not understand me - and that is understandable because modern Westerners have lost the capacity to think multi-dimensionally.

    I have explained my reasoning multiple times - try clicking on my handle.

    You seek to perpetuate black dysfunction. I do not think this serves the interests of whites. In America today, blacks are taught that the values of civilization are "white". If blacks can learn to think of themselves as the inheritors of great civilizations, they will strive to live up to these standards.

    Secondly, it is humiliating for white people today to "compete" with blacks. You do not compete with people who are so far beneath you (today). It is frankly embarrassing watching everyone here argue with blacks over who is more civilized. It merely shows how far white self-respect has fallen. A smile and a shrug would show more self-respect. The correct white attitude towards blacks should be paternalism. You have lost the capacity to adopt the "superior" pose.

    Thirdly, Jews have formed a strategic alliance with blacks against whites. It is stupid not to seek to turn the tables on Jews. Jews have self-respect - the idea of vying with blacks for civilizational honor would strike them as absurd. Therefore they have no problem stroking black egos as they weaponize them against you. Doing this back to Jews is apparently beyond the strategic comprehension of today's whites.

    Fourthly, while the foregoing is regrettably Machiavellian - in the true sense, as utilizing bad means for moral ends, with regret. Not gleefully, with relish, as the "redpilled" like to imagine themselves doing - I believe the path back to white self-respect lies through regaining the "true" moral high ground (true, as in - not pathological altruism). I believe "the" major source of self-respect is believing oneself to be firmly grounded in moral values. As being "good". Even the Nazis believed they were in the service of "good". No major political movement can succeed in attracting the passion and loyalty of large numbers of people unless it can offer a vision of moral good.

    Genetic interests are insufficient except for a small fringe. HBD is insufficient. These are merely material factors. People do not live on bread alone. And they will happily sacrifice their lives for a moral vision.

    The history of the Jews should have taught us the importance of moral factors - a small people dominating a much larger one that has lost its moral vision, even though the larger group possesses vastly more intelligent and capable people.

    We are making the same mistakes that has landed us in this hot mess. True morality means respect for others and oneself. Respecting others, you are firmly grounded in a sense of right, and you are armored against guilt. Knowing yourself to be "good", you fearlessly stand up for yourself and fight for your interests. You know you are aligned with "right".

    Finally, I do not believe humiliating other groups is necessary for us to abandon our pathological altruism and regain our self-respect. That is the losers way.

    And finally finally, the crown jewel of my argument - I do not believe in hatred but in love. I love whites and want to see them flourish and thrive. But not at the expense of blacks.

    I could expand on all this at length, but this is enough for now.

    I am frankly embarrassed at having to say out loud do much that should be implicitly understood - but the times are bad, and whites have grown stupid.

    You seek to perpetuate black dysfunction. I do not think this serves the interests of whites. In America today, blacks are taught that the values of civilization are “white”. If blacks can learn to think of themselves as the unverified of great civilizations, they will strive to live up to these standards.

    Somehow despite the fact that blacks in America for several decades have been told about the great and ever-so-important achievements of blacks (Inventors! Explorers! Soldiers!) both in America and in other countries few American blacks seem to aspire to something greater or improving the situation of their race.

    The problem with blacks isn’t their dysfunction in itself it is that their dysfunction affects and even to an extent spreads to other people.

    Secondly, it is humiliating for white people today to “compete” with blacks. You do not compete with people who are so far beneath you (today). It is frankly embarrassing watching everyone here argue with blacks over who is more civilized. It merely shows how far white self-respect has fallen. A smile and a shrug would show more self-respect. The correct white attitude towards blacks should be paternalism.

    Perhaps people wouldn’t have to argue with them so much if people like you didn’t furnish the flames of their fantasies. If American whites were simply dealing with 40 million hikikomori poasting about muh flying pyramids then it wouldn’t be such a problem but since these fantasy dreams cause them to lash out at whites when they see the disparity between their fantasies and real life it is dangerous to encourage this afrotriumphalism.

    No, the correct solution is either establishing a regime of iron-hard discipline, creating an independent state and conducting population transfers, encouraging self-repatriation to Africa or sterilising them.

    Thirdly, Jews have formed a strategic alliance with blacks against whites. It is stupid not to seek to turn the tables on Jews. Jews have self-respect – the idea of vying with blacks for civilizational honor would strike them as absurd. Therefore they have no problem stroking black egos as they weaponize them against you. Doing this back to Jews is apparently beyond the strategic comprehension of today’s whites.

    And how exactly are we supposed to do this? Blacks (muslims excepted) just see Jews as either whites or as a sub-set of whites and from their perspective that is rather reasonable. Any attack on whites will hit us as well. Letting the rapid dog grow big and expand its territory to get rid of the parasite just replaces one problem with another problem.

    Fourthly, while the foregoing is regrettably Machiavellian – in the true sense, as utilizing bad means for moral ends, with regret. Not gleefully, with relish, as the “redpilled” like to imagine themselves doing – I believe the path back to white self-respect lies through regaining the “true” moral high ground (true, as in – not pathological altruism). I believe “the” major source of self-respect is believing oneself to be firmly grounded in moral values. As being “good”. Even the Nazis believed they were in the service of “good”. No major political movement can succeed in attracting the passion and loyalty of large numbers of people unless it can offer a vision of moral good.

    Nice words, but they are not really substantial. Do you not think nationalists in say, France or Italy, believe they are doing something good for their people and that they are in the right?

    Genetic interests are insufficient except for a small fringe. HBD is insufficient. These are merely material factors. People do not live on bread alone. And they will happily sacrifice their lives for a moral vision.

    We have a moral vision – nationalism – in fact we have had it for a long time.

    The history of the Jews should have taught us the importance of moral factors – a small people dominating a much larger one that has lost its moral vision, even though the larger group possesses vastly more intelligent and capable people.

    Considering that Jewish influence echoes far throughout time, even during periods when Europeans had a moral vision as you call it, clearly the issue goes much deeper than that.

    We are making the same mistakes that has landed us in this hot mess. True morality means respect for others and oneself. Respecting others, you are firmly grounded in a sense of right, and you are armored against guilt.

    Respecting others doesn’t help armour us against guilt, only respect for ourselves does that. Especially in an age when “respecting others” means letting others walk all over you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    You can't just praise blacks like the left does - that's just as bad as mocking them. You firmly point out current black dysfunction in a thoroughly honest fashion - letting them get away with nothing - while exhorting them to do better and instill good values in them. Its paternalism, not excuse making. You try to instill self-respect in them - and encourage them to strive to live up to their glorious ancestors the Egyptians.

    Its a two- handed approach - condemnation and praise. Right now these two functions are divided between left and right - neither works alone. The last thing you want to do is encourage genetic fatalism!

    Nationalism as a moral vision is bare bones - its better than individuslism, but no great civilization succeeded merely on nationalism. All saw themselves as bearing the fate of humanity in their shoulders, as the tip of the spear of a universal human mission. Even the Romans had their Pax Romana. The Romans, even.

    Jews never achieved the level of dominance they have now until post-Enlightenment - as rationalism and materialism grew among Europeans, Jews gained an edge - as they never adopted these ways of thinking on a deep level, not even today.

    I do not believe most people can respect themselves knowing they treat others with injustice. A few can, but most cannot. Self respect paradoxically depends on treating others with justice. When whites created capitalism, colonialism, materialism they abandoned the moral dimension began to feel vague feelings of uneasy guilt. Jews them exploited this.

    Time to repair this.
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  206. @Bliss

    The idea that American war of independence was a glorious event should fade away.
     
    You got a problem with the Enlightenment? You would rather live under a hereditary monarchy and aristocracy?

    I don’t see how one can argue against rationalism, secularism and meritocratic egalitarianism.

    The reason why the American war of independence was not glorious was that Britain had long since had a liberal regime and was liberalising ever further and the Americans in the end just created a mini-Britain.

    As for the type of regime I’d prefer, I think I would like a technocratic dictatorship led by a collective party/institutional leadership utilising dead emperor worship.

    Read More
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  207. Bliss says:
    @AaronB
    What do you mean - I explain it all the time at length and in depth. Its like no one clicks on my handle and reads my beautiful comments...

    TL:DR version -

    The things worth living for - beauty, nobility, and love - cannot be apprehended by logic. The more you train your mind to think exclusively logically, you less you can see these things.

    Being secular means believing only in matter - yet the things worth living for cannot be perceived by the senses which perceive matter.

    The more you believe only in matter - are secular - the less worthwhile life becomes.

    Its pretty straightforward - but its struggle to see what's right in front of your nose, as some great man said somewhere.

    Being secular means believing only in matter – yet the things worth living for cannot be perceived by the senses which perceive matter.

    You have bought into the wrong meaning of the word secularism. Secularism is not atheism. It is the political doctrine of Separation of Church and State. It is the antithesis of Theocracy.

    Do you still have a problem with the correct meaning of secularism?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Okay, fair enough, but separating religion from the state is an illusion - when religion stopped mattering, the state stopped regulating it. The "new religion" - the attitudes and values a particular system needs to function - is always promoted by the state. We see this now most clearly.

    In reality, the state always has to encourage the values that keep its particular political system functioning, and oppress other values - religion can never be separated from the state, and never truly was.

    In emerging capitalism, as long as you were a good consumer and worker what god you believed in didn't matter. This created the illusion of secularism.

    In reality, the values that are essential to a system always are guarded.
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  208. AaronB says:
    @Hyperborean

    You seek to perpetuate black dysfunction. I do not think this serves the interests of whites. In America today, blacks are taught that the values of civilization are “white”. If blacks can learn to think of themselves as the unverified of great civilizations, they will strive to live up to these standards.
     
    Somehow despite the fact that blacks in America for several decades have been told about the great and ever-so-important achievements of blacks (Inventors! Explorers! Soldiers!) both in America and in other countries few American blacks seem to aspire to something greater or improving the situation of their race.

    The problem with blacks isn't their dysfunction in itself it is that their dysfunction affects and even to an extent spreads to other people.

    Secondly, it is humiliating for white people today to “compete” with blacks. You do not compete with people who are so far beneath you (today). It is frankly embarrassing watching everyone here argue with blacks over who is more civilized. It merely shows how far white self-respect has fallen. A smile and a shrug would show more self-respect. The correct white attitude towards blacks should be paternalism.
     
    Perhaps people wouldn't have to argue with them so much if people like you didn't furnish the flames of their fantasies. If American whites were simply dealing with 40 million hikikomori poasting about muh flying pyramids then it wouldn't be such a problem but since these fantasy dreams cause them to lash out at whites when they see the disparity between their fantasies and real life it is dangerous to encourage this afrotriumphalism.

    No, the correct solution is either establishing a regime of iron-hard discipline, creating an independent state and conducting population transfers, encouraging self-repatriation to Africa or sterilising them.

    Thirdly, Jews have formed a strategic alliance with blacks against whites. It is stupid not to seek to turn the tables on Jews. Jews have self-respect – the idea of vying with blacks for civilizational honor would strike them as absurd. Therefore they have no problem stroking black egos as they weaponize them against you. Doing this back to Jews is apparently beyond the strategic comprehension of today’s whites.
     
    And how exactly are we supposed to do this? Blacks (muslims excepted) just see Jews as either whites or as a sub-set of whites and from their perspective that is rather reasonable. Any attack on whites will hit us as well. Letting the rapid dog grow big and expand its territory to get rid of the parasite just replaces one problem with another problem.

    Fourthly, while the foregoing is regrettably Machiavellian – in the true sense, as utilizing bad means for moral ends, with regret. Not gleefully, with relish, as the “redpilled” like to imagine themselves doing – I believe the path back to white self-respect lies through regaining the “true” moral high ground (true, as in – not pathological altruism). I believe “the” major source of self-respect is believing oneself to be firmly grounded in moral values. As being “good”. Even the Nazis believed they were in the service of “good”. No major political movement can succeed in attracting the passion and loyalty of large numbers of people unless it can offer a vision of moral good.
     
    Nice words, but they are not really substantial. Do you not think nationalists in say, France or Italy, believe they are doing something good for their people and that they are in the right?

    Genetic interests are insufficient except for a small fringe. HBD is insufficient. These are merely material factors. People do not live on bread alone. And they will happily sacrifice their lives for a moral vision.
     
    We have a moral vision - nationalism - in fact we have had it for a long time.

    The history of the Jews should have taught us the importance of moral factors – a small people dominating a much larger one that has lost its moral vision, even though the larger group possesses vastly more intelligent and capable people.
     
    Considering that Jewish influence echoes far throughout time, even during periods when Europeans had a moral vision as you call it, clearly the issue goes much deeper than that.

    We are making the same mistakes that has landed us in this hot mess. True morality means respect for others and oneself. Respecting others, you are firmly grounded in a sense of right, and you are armored against guilt.
     
    Respecting others doesn't help armour us against guilt, only respect for ourselves does that. Especially in an age when "respecting others" means letting others walk all over you.

    You can’t just praise blacks like the left does – that’s just as bad as mocking them. You firmly point out current black dysfunction in a thoroughly honest fashion – letting them get away with nothing – while exhorting them to do better and instill good values in them. Its paternalism, not excuse making. You try to instill self-respect in them – and encourage them to strive to live up to their glorious ancestors the Egyptians.

    Its a two- handed approach – condemnation and praise. Right now these two functions are divided between left and right – neither works alone. The last thing you want to do is encourage genetic fatalism!

    Nationalism as a moral vision is bare bones – its better than individuslism, but no great civilization succeeded merely on nationalism. All saw themselves as bearing the fate of humanity in their shoulders, as the tip of the spear of a universal human mission. Even the Romans had their Pax Romana. The Romans, even.

    Jews never achieved the level of dominance they have now until post-Enlightenment – as rationalism and materialism grew among Europeans, Jews gained an edge – as they never adopted these ways of thinking on a deep level, not even today.

    I do not believe most people can respect themselves knowing they treat others with injustice. A few can, but most cannot. Self respect paradoxically depends on treating others with justice. When whites created capitalism, colonialism, materialism they abandoned the moral dimension began to feel vague feelings of uneasy guilt. Jews them exploited this.

    Time to repair this.

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  209. AaronB says:
    @songbird
    Honestly, I think Egyptians are not willing to share ancient Egypt with blacks. Black heritage in order to have a firm base can't be about a turf war. It has to be either historical (true - and there are at least some things) and/or it has got to be mythological, as distinct from psuedo-historical. Or even a combination of myth and history, but not made-up history.

    History is what it is. We cannot change it, except by discovery. That is why I favor mythology. Wakanda has such a great appeal for blacks that it is hard not to notice. Some of the money misspent on trying to fix black social problems externally should be repurposed to make black entertainment with Wakanda stories - always with high moral values and always taking place in Africa and always starring Africans, so they can claim it as their own.

    If Wakanda is fiction, they should be inspired to move back to Africa and make a true Wakanda. Meanwhile, information about the outside world should be curtailed, so only their leaders can access it. They need to get out of others' shadows and compete with each other, not with other groups. That is why they don't like whites - they compete with whites. Jews being mostly in a higher economic bracket compete with blacks far less often. That is why they ally with each other.

    Wakanda, Egypt, it’s all good. Objective history is a myth.

    High level spots that blacks covet are monopolized by Jews – and the general economic situation such hurts low wage workers is Jewish promoted. It would be quite easy to ally with blacks against Jews if you had imagination.

    Blacks compete with Jews as well as whites, and are hurt by Jewish promoted policies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Have you been to Africa? I have. If you manage it without becoming more much cynical about humanity, then you are indeed a better soul than I am.
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  210. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    Being secular means believing only in matter – yet the things worth living for cannot be perceived by the senses which perceive matter.
     
    You have bought into the wrong meaning of the word secularism. Secularism is not atheism. It is the political doctrine of Separation of Church and State. It is the antithesis of Theocracy.

    Do you still have a problem with the correct meaning of secularism?

    Okay, fair enough, but separating religion from the state is an illusion – when religion stopped mattering, the state stopped regulating it. The “new religion” – the attitudes and values a particular system needs to function – is always promoted by the state. We see this now most clearly.

    In reality, the state always has to encourage the values that keep its particular political system functioning, and oppress other values – religion can never be separated from the state, and never truly was.

    In emerging capitalism, as long as you were a good consumer and worker what god you believed in didn’t matter. This created the illusion of secularism.

    In reality, the values that are essential to a system always are guarded.

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  211. @AaronB
    Wakanda, Egypt, it's all good. Objective history is a myth.

    High level spots that blacks covet are monopolized by Jews - and the general economic situation such hurts low wage workers is Jewish promoted. It would be quite easy to ally with blacks against Jews if you had imagination.

    Blacks compete with Jews as well as whites, and are hurt by Jewish promoted policies.

    Have you been to Africa? I have. If you manage it without becoming more much cynical about humanity, then you are indeed a better soul than I am.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Only Ethiopia and Egypt. But also to southern Ethiopia on the border with Kenya, where there are pure blacks. They seemed all right.

    Is it really that much worse than an American inner city ghetto? That's pretty bad. But I don't know.

    The worst human degradation I've seen was in slums in India, and I've read Africa has nothing that bad. But I don't know.

    I try to see with the third eye of imagination - who knows what people can be like in good environments. Obviously genetics play a huge role, and I'm not saying anything retarded like there's a million Shakespeare's out there, but its tough to really come to conclusions without considering the crucial role of values environment.

    All I know is that a huge amount if dysfunction is caused by bad values and environment - look at how white working class got so much worse recently.
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  212. Bliss says:

    separating religion from the state is an illusion – when religion stopped mattering, the state stopped regulating it. The “new religion” – the attitudes and values a particular system needs to function – is always promoted by the state.

    When did religion stop mattering? Religious groupings have political power, look at the Evangelicals.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    I favor a more authoritarian and non individualist culture. The state should promote good values and morality. I think tolerance is an illusion - if the good guys abdicate their role you just leave the bad guys free to seize power. We are part of a corporate body influenced in a thousand ways by others.

    Tolerance is an unstable equilibrium - the balance is always tipping. The true battle is between rival visions.

    I also think a human community should be organized around a common vision of the moral good and the purpose of life. Harmony is desirable and dissension should be avoided.

    None of this is compatible with secularism - which leads to the bad flourishing and eventually seizing power as well as lack of unity in a common moral vision, thus atomization and apathy. No good.

    Of course, it need not be too oppressive or tyrannical - we can tread lightly as long as common sense is observed, and in fact in unified communities of this sort wide lattitude is permitted to eccentrics and a surprising amount of personal freedom is allowed - because the fundamentals are secure, society stands on a firm footing.
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  213. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Have you been to Africa? I have. If you manage it without becoming more much cynical about humanity, then you are indeed a better soul than I am.

    Only Ethiopia and Egypt. But also to southern Ethiopia on the border with Kenya, where there are pure blacks. They seemed all right.

    Is it really that much worse than an American inner city ghetto? That’s pretty bad. But I don’t know.

    The worst human degradation I’ve seen was in slums in India, and I’ve read Africa has nothing that bad. But I don’t know.

    I try to see with the third eye of imagination – who knows what people can be like in good environments. Obviously genetics play a huge role, and I’m not saying anything retarded like there’s a million Shakespeare’s out there, but its tough to really come to conclusions without considering the crucial role of values environment.

    All I know is that a huge amount if dysfunction is caused by bad values and environment – look at how white working class got so much worse recently.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Cameroon convinced that by and large, they're not interested in improving their values environment.
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  214. @AaronB
    Only Ethiopia and Egypt. But also to southern Ethiopia on the border with Kenya, where there are pure blacks. They seemed all right.

    Is it really that much worse than an American inner city ghetto? That's pretty bad. But I don't know.

    The worst human degradation I've seen was in slums in India, and I've read Africa has nothing that bad. But I don't know.

    I try to see with the third eye of imagination - who knows what people can be like in good environments. Obviously genetics play a huge role, and I'm not saying anything retarded like there's a million Shakespeare's out there, but its tough to really come to conclusions without considering the crucial role of values environment.

    All I know is that a huge amount if dysfunction is caused by bad values and environment - look at how white working class got so much worse recently.

    Cameroon convinced that by and large, they’re not interested in improving their values environment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Interesting.

    Its possible some communities cannot succeed in modernity. In which case why not let them be hunter gatherers. Maybe I'd join them :) Its one of my ideal lives.

    But I still think its hard to make really broad generalizations st this point.
    , @Okechukwu

    Cameroon convinced that by and large, they’re not interested in improving their values environment.
     
    I see you've never tried to do business in China, Uncle Wong. At least in Cameroon you can find among the people, the occasional honest, ethical human being. I would not say the same about China. Values environment in China? You must be out of your mind.
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  215. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    separating religion from the state is an illusion – when religion stopped mattering, the state stopped regulating it. The “new religion” – the attitudes and values a particular system needs to function – is always promoted by the state.
     
    When did religion stop mattering? Religious groupings have political power, look at the Evangelicals.

    I favor a more authoritarian and non individualist culture. The state should promote good values and morality. I think tolerance is an illusion – if the good guys abdicate their role you just leave the bad guys free to seize power. We are part of a corporate body influenced in a thousand ways by others.

    Tolerance is an unstable equilibrium – the balance is always tipping. The true battle is between rival visions.

    I also think a human community should be organized around a common vision of the moral good and the purpose of life. Harmony is desirable and dissension should be avoided.

    None of this is compatible with secularism – which leads to the bad flourishing and eventually seizing power as well as lack of unity in a common moral vision, thus atomization and apathy. No good.

    Of course, it need not be too oppressive or tyrannical – we can tread lightly as long as common sense is observed, and in fact in unified communities of this sort wide lattitude is permitted to eccentrics and a surprising amount of personal freedom is allowed – because the fundamentals are secure, society stands on a firm footing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bliss

    I favor a more authoritarian and non individualist culture. The state should promote good values and morality.
     
    What kind of authoritarianism? Monarchy? Theocracy? Dictatorship?

    Tolerance is an unstable equilibrium – the balance is always tipping. The true battle is between rival visions.
     
    So you want a people to be united by one Vision, like an intolerant Theocracy? What makes you think such a system is stable considering the historical record (example: 30 Years War)?

    Btw, why don’t you tell us the specific vision that you think is the best?
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  216. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Cameroon convinced that by and large, they're not interested in improving their values environment.

    Interesting.

    Its possible some communities cannot succeed in modernity. In which case why not let them be hunter gatherers. Maybe I’d join them :) Its one of my ideal lives.

    But I still think its hard to make really broad generalizations st this point.

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  217. utu says:
    @Okechukwu
    Yeah, I can just see some pinkish Northern European types running around shirtless in the Egyptian sun. Meanwhile, their brethren were more or less cavemen back in Europe. That makes absolutely no sense.

    If you read the caveats, disclaimers and peer reviews attached to the study you are referring to, you will quickly discover that you are the one attempting to make an emphatic determination based on faulty and insufficient data. Given the eventual polyethnic nature of Ancient Egypt, one can find virtually anything one is looking for in the genetic and anthropological records. A future examination of United States specimens will yield similar results. But that would tell us nothing as to who were the original inhabitants of the United States.

    All available evidence, including artwork and statuary, point to a black African origin of Ancient Egypt.

    I also mentioned Nubia in my OP. Nubian civilization actually predates and informed Egypt's. Let me guess, you believe they were white too.

    I am sorry to say but you can’t be take seriously. It looks like you do not have higher aspirations than just being a troll who is not constrained by any rules of discourse and is free to use the most outlandish rhetorical devices and tricks and use evidence and falsity frivolously.

    Genetics studies of mummies form Egypt are what they are. They clearly indicate that there was no significant genetic component from Sub-Saharans Africans (SSA). Furthermore because modern population of Egypt has acquired SSA admixture in last 1000 years or so the research showed that:

    Strikingly, the mummies were more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians.

    which was further reinforced by this statement:

    we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested

    In terms of ‘white’/’black’ skin color dichotomy, which seems to obsess you, ancient Egyptians were more white than modern Egyptians and thus closer to ‘pink’ than to ‘black’ on the ‘white’-’black’ spectrum. This being said white Europeans and Americans do not seek racial or cultural identity with ancient Egyptians. Europeans know their roots pretty well. The reason they may argue with trolls like you is not because they compete for the Egyptian heritage and want to appropriate it and steal it from you. They could adopt a paternalistic approach as AaronB advocates and let you have Egypt in hope that this myth will boost your future well being and performance, however AaronB comes from the tradition of Haggadah where the truth is not fixed and myth becomes utilitarian truth. Our European tradition comes form Greeks is different. The truth is an absolute abstract that is not there to be utilized and manipulated. So our opposition to the myth building by Afrocentric nationalist who try to utilize ancient Egypt history fraudulently stems from loyalty to our philosophical tradition on which our civilization was built. We can’t let you win in this debate which you are forcing on us because we may not let our children to be taught falsities in schools. This is against the fundamental principle of our tradition. W/o this principle science and civilization will collapse. So we will not treat you as children as AaronB would have it but as responsible members of a human race. But you by pushing this nonsensical debate are doing a great disservice to your race unless you really won’t AaronB’s of this world to be your daddies.

    Read More
    • Troll: Okechukwu
    • Replies: @Bliss

    We can’t let you win in this debate which you are forcing on us because we may not let our children to be taught falsities in schools. This is against the fundamental principle of our tradition.
     
    Very funny. Didn’t you just try to peddle these falsities in the previous paragraph:

    ancient Egyptians were more white than modern Egyptians and thus closer to ‘pink’ than to ‘black’

    we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested

    They clearly indicate that there was no significant genetic component from Sub-Saharans Africans (SSA).
     
    1. The numerous wall murals from Ancient Egypt make a liar out of you, so do the numerous descriptions of Egyptians by the Ancient Greeks. No one ever compared the Egyptians to Europeans, or even to their closest neighbors to the north.

    2. For well over 2500 years Egypt has been ruled by foreigners: Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Turks etc who also brought in numerous slaves from the north: from Europe, the Caucasus, Central Asia etc.

    3. The language of Ancient Egypt originated in Africa not in Europe. It is related to Ethiopian and other african languages.

    4. The obsession (of nordicists in particular) to deny the Africanness of Egypt is pathological.


    https://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/750x428p/photos.demandstudios.com/getty/article/88/148/92845974.jpg

    http://brewminate.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/022018-01-Art-Histroy-Ancient-Egypt.png

    http://historylink101.com/n/images/anubis_mummification_dead.jpg

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/140115033026-egypt-luxor-tomb-2-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

    http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/writing/explore/images/tomb.jpg

    https://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2014/01/kheti-tomb-P.jpeg


    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.
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  218. Okechukwu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Blacks were significantly responsible for the prosperity...
     
    Canada and Australia had negligible numbers of Negroes, were both very prosperous and immigration magnet during the 19th century.

    Why don’t you go back to Russia or wherever it is you’re from?
     
    I did.

    When are you repatriating to Nigeria?

    PPP is a junk metric.
     
    PPP is a more legitimate proxy for living standards (in its per capita version), and for national power (which is of geopolitical relevance).

    Nominal is more useful for proxying international financial power, and for performing debt burden calculations, where said debts are denominated in foreign currencies (Russia has negligible national debt).

    Canada and Australia had negligible numbers of Negroes, were both very prosperous and immigration magnet during the 19th century.

    Not nearly as much of a magnet as America. Those countries were alternative destinations when the US began turning away “undesirable” whites, employing many of the same arguments those of your ilk use today with respect to people of color (low IQ, criminally inclined, incompatible with western values, etc.). You Russians were among the undesirables. But if we accept that European genetics have this magical quality that misguided race realists attribute to it, why do those Europeans have to go anywhere? Why were they escaping European shithole nations if indeed Europeans are genetically fine-tuned for nation building and excellent governance?

    I did.

    Then why do you care about what’s going on in the United States? America’s problems pale in comparison to Russia’s. Ought you not to be focusing on those problems, many of which are existential, rather than wasting your mighty talents writing racist screeds on the Internet? Writings, I might add, which are on the very cusp of violating Article 282 of the Russian statute outlawing hate speech.

    When are you repatriating to Nigeria?

    Well, I’m not actually a Nigerian. That’s just my heritage. I’m in my country.

    PPP is a more legitimate proxy for living standards (in its per capita version), and for national power (which is of geopolitical relevance).

    Nope. PPP is just a theory. It has little real world relevance. Besides, a dollar buys more in Los Angeles than it does in Moscow. And given that Russia is a net importer of most of their consumer goods, the collapse of the ruble makes the cost of living particularly painful. With Russia’s GDP per capita at just under $9,000, I’m stunned that the average Russian is able to make ends meet.

    National power is a by-product of economic power. Russia has very little national power. It’s nukes are interesting, but they’re worthless because they can never be used. For a country of that size, with a population of that size, Russia is very weak by western standards.

    Nominal is more useful for proxying international financial power, and for performing debt burden calculations, where said debts are denominated in foreign currencies (Russia has negligible national debt).

    Russia has little international financial power. Its entire economy exists at the whim and with the forbearance of the US Treasury Department, OFAC in particular. Do you know that Russian banks and companies have to observe US sanctions against Russian entities in Russia lest they be shut out of the international financial system? That’s the main reason the Duma floated a bill that would criminalize with a prison sentence, the observance of US sanctions within the territory of Russia. But if it ever becomes law they’d have to imprison most of their bankers and oligarchs.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    You Russians were among the undesirables.
     
    The late 19th century Russian emigration to the US was predominantly Jewish.

    Why were they escaping European shithole nations if indeed Europeans are genetically fine-tuned for nation building and excellent governance?
     
    Britain isn't a shithole country - well, it sort of is becoming one, thanks to all the Negroes and Mohammedans it is importing, but it's not there yet - and yet hundreds of thousands of Britons leave yearly for Canada, Australia, and the US (and Iberia, for retirement).

    Leaving because your own country is a shithole country is something that is more specific to Negroes.

    Writings, I might add, which are on the very cusp of violating Article 282 of the Russian statute outlawing hate speech.
     
    Happily for me, Negroes are not one of the groups whose feelings the anti-extremism authorities care for.

    Besides, a dollar buys more in Los Angeles than it does in Moscow. And given that Russia is a net importer of most of their consumer goods, the collapse of the ruble makes the cost of living particularly painful. With Russia’s GDP per capita at just under $9,000, I’m stunned that the average Russian is able to make ends meet.
     
    1. Incorrect.
    2. Incorrect.
    3. With an GDP per capita of $2,000, I am amazed that Nigerians are not starving to death. Well, I'm not, actually. But you should be, since you apparently believe that "PPP is just a theory" (whereas We Wuz Kangz is well-documented history).

    That’s the main reason the Duma floated a bill that would criminalize with a prison sentence, the observance of US sanctions within the territory of Russia. But if it ever becomes law they’d have to imprison most of their bankers and oligarchs.
     
    As I have written, hopefully that does indeed happen.
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  219. Bliss says:
    @utu
    I am sorry to say but you can't be take seriously. It looks like you do not have higher aspirations than just being a troll who is not constrained by any rules of discourse and is free to use the most outlandish rhetorical devices and tricks and use evidence and falsity frivolously.

    Genetics studies of mummies form Egypt are what they are. They clearly indicate that there was no significant genetic component from Sub-Saharans Africans (SSA). Furthermore because modern population of Egypt has acquired SSA admixture in last 1000 years or so the research showed that:

    Strikingly, the mummies were more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians.
     
    which was further reinforced by this statement:

    we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested
     
    In terms of 'white'/'black' skin color dichotomy, which seems to obsess you, ancient Egyptians were more white than modern Egyptians and thus closer to 'pink' than to 'black' on the 'white'-'black' spectrum. This being said white Europeans and Americans do not seek racial or cultural identity with ancient Egyptians. Europeans know their roots pretty well. The reason they may argue with trolls like you is not because they compete for the Egyptian heritage and want to appropriate it and steal it from you. They could adopt a paternalistic approach as AaronB advocates and let you have Egypt in hope that this myth will boost your future well being and performance, however AaronB comes from the tradition of Haggadah where the truth is not fixed and myth becomes utilitarian truth. Our European tradition comes form Greeks is different. The truth is an absolute abstract that is not there to be utilized and manipulated. So our opposition to the myth building by Afrocentric nationalist who try to utilize ancient Egypt history fraudulently stems from loyalty to our philosophical tradition on which our civilization was built. We can't let you win in this debate which you are forcing on us because we may not let our children to be taught falsities in schools. This is against the fundamental principle of our tradition. W/o this principle science and civilization will collapse. So we will not treat you as children as AaronB would have it but as responsible members of a human race. But you by pushing this nonsensical debate are doing a great disservice to your race unless you really won't AaronB's of this world to be your daddies.

    We can’t let you win in this debate which you are forcing on us because we may not let our children to be taught falsities in schools. This is against the fundamental principle of our tradition.

    Very funny. Didn’t you just try to peddle these falsities in the previous paragraph:

    ancient Egyptians were more white than modern Egyptians and thus closer to ‘pink’ than to ‘black’

    we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested

    They clearly indicate that there was no significant genetic component from Sub-Saharans Africans (SSA).

    1. The numerous wall murals from Ancient Egypt make a liar out of you, so do the numerous descriptions of Egyptians by the Ancient Greeks. No one ever compared the Egyptians to Europeans, or even to their closest neighbors to the north.

    2. For well over 2500 years Egypt has been ruled by foreigners: Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Turks etc who also brought in numerous slaves from the north: from Europe, the Caucasus, Central Asia etc.

    3. The language of Ancient Egypt originated in Africa not in Europe. It is related to Ethiopian and other african languages.

    4. The obsession (of nordicists in particular) to deny the Africanness of Egypt is pathological.

    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.

    Read More
    • Agree: Okechukwu, AaronB
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.
     
    Hehe. Here's a "white" Ancient Egyptian with black skin and an afro:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/4f/c0/f14fc0ee7170883bd77691c670b8b001.jpg
    , @utu

    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.
     
    'these people' you are referring to are painted representations. These are 2-D paintings not people. Keep in mind Korzybski's dictum: The map is not the territory. On the other hand, DNA samples were taken from mummies of actual people who lived in ancient Egypt. You are not looking at photographs. These are artistic representations according to skills, artistic convention, available pigments and tradition of color coding.

    Each color was created by mixing various naturally occurring elements and each became standardized in time in order to ensure a uniformity in art work. An Egyptian male, for example, was always depicted with a reddish-brown skin which was achieved by mixing a certain amount of the standard red paint recipe with standard brown. Variations in the mix would occur in different eras but, overall, remained more or less the same. This color for the male's skin was chosen for realism in the piece, in order to symbolize the outdoor life of most males, while Egyptian women were painted with lighter skin (using yellow and white mixes) since they spent more time indoors.

    The gods were typically represented with gold skin, reflecting the belief that gods did, in fact, have gold skin. An exception to this is the god Osiris who is almost always shown with green or black skin symbolizing fertility, regeneration, and the underworld.
     
    There are also dog-human hybrids on these paintings. As far as I know DNA study did not find canine genes so far. Do you think they should keep looking for canine DNA? If they find canine admixture your belief that the paintings are realistic representation would be greatly reinforced.

    The bottom line is that these paintings can't be used to determine actual spectral skin albedo of ancient Egyptians. No sane person will claim that they were white as Norwegians and no sane person will claim they were black like Ethiopians or Nigerians. Genetic studies suggest that they had lighter skin than modern inhabitants of Egypt. Perhaps their skin albedo was more like that of modern Syrians or Cypriots.

    The language of Ancient Egypt originated in Africa not in Europe. It is related to Ethiopian and other african languages.
     
    Get you act together and stop creating strawmen. Nobody is claiming anything about European languages. For obvious reasons very little is known for certain about Egyptian language:

    The Egyptian language belongs to the Afroasiatic language family.[...] Of the other Afroasiatic branches, Egyptian shows its greatest affinities with Berber,[6] Semitic and, to a lesser extent, Cushitic

    Although Egyptian is the oldest Afroasiatic language documented in written form, its morphological repertoire is very different from that of the rest of the Afroasiatic, in general, and Semitic, in particular.[10] There are multiple possibilities: Egyptian had already undergone radical changes from Proto-Afroasiatic before it was recorded, the Afroasiatic family has so far been studied with an excessively Semito-centric approach, or, as G. W. Tsereteli suggests, Afroasiatic is an allogenetic rather than a genetic group of languages.
     

    The obsession (of nordicists in particular) to deny the Africanness of Egypt is pathological.
     
    There is no obsession that I know of and there is no pathology in adherence to the truth and being able to discern what is true and what is not, what we know and what we do not know. DNA studies did not find any significant sub-Saharan admixture but found that ancient Egyptian were "more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians."

    There will be more DNA studies coming so hopefully placing Egyptians on the racial map will be even more precise.
    , @German_reader

    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.
     
    Again, who's claiming that ancient Egyptians were "Europeans"? No, the DNA evidence points to them being mostly related to Mideasterners, maybe with some admixture from East Africa (not the same people as Nigerians like annoying Okechukwu).
    You're arguing against a straw man, as far as I can see nobody here claims ancient Egyptians were Nordics or some other absurdity.
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  220. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Cameroon convinced that by and large, they're not interested in improving their values environment.

    Cameroon convinced that by and large, they’re not interested in improving their values environment.

    I see you’ve never tried to do business in China, Uncle Wong. At least in Cameroon you can find among the people, the occasional honest, ethical human being. I would not say the same about China. Values environment in China? You must be out of your mind.

    Read More
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  221. Okechukwu says:
    @Bliss

    We can’t let you win in this debate which you are forcing on us because we may not let our children to be taught falsities in schools. This is against the fundamental principle of our tradition.
     
    Very funny. Didn’t you just try to peddle these falsities in the previous paragraph:

    ancient Egyptians were more white than modern Egyptians and thus closer to ‘pink’ than to ‘black’

    we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested

    They clearly indicate that there was no significant genetic component from Sub-Saharans Africans (SSA).
     
    1. The numerous wall murals from Ancient Egypt make a liar out of you, so do the numerous descriptions of Egyptians by the Ancient Greeks. No one ever compared the Egyptians to Europeans, or even to their closest neighbors to the north.

    2. For well over 2500 years Egypt has been ruled by foreigners: Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Turks etc who also brought in numerous slaves from the north: from Europe, the Caucasus, Central Asia etc.

    3. The language of Ancient Egypt originated in Africa not in Europe. It is related to Ethiopian and other african languages.

    4. The obsession (of nordicists in particular) to deny the Africanness of Egypt is pathological.


    https://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/750x428p/photos.demandstudios.com/getty/article/88/148/92845974.jpg

    http://brewminate.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/022018-01-Art-Histroy-Ancient-Egypt.png

    http://historylink101.com/n/images/anubis_mummification_dead.jpg

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/140115033026-egypt-luxor-tomb-2-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

    http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/writing/explore/images/tomb.jpg

    https://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2014/01/kheti-tomb-P.jpeg


    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.

    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.

    Hehe. Here’s a “white” Ancient Egyptian with black skin and an afro:

    Read More
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  222. Anonymous[419] • Disclaimer says:
    @Okechukwu
    Actually, hundreds of millions of Africans are wealthier and live better than hundreds of millions of Chinese. The African middle class is larger, as a percentage of the population, than China's.

    Oh, and lookee here:

    [b]Africa's 'lion economies' growth exceeds forecasts[/b]

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/africas-lion-economies-growth-exceeds-forecasts-180222112354500.html

    Sorry, Wong.

    Actually, hundreds of millions of Africans are wealthier and live better than hundreds of millions of Chinese.

    This is unlikely. The 1 billion people of sub-Sahara Africa are very poor. Sub-Sahara Africa minus South Africa has a GDP per capita of around US$1,200. China in contrast has a GDP per capita of about US$9,000.

    Even though the urban-rural gap in China is severe due to lack of a robust welfare state in China (instead regular wage jobs are created for working age rural people who move to the cities), it is very unlikely that 200 million or the top 20% of sub-Saharan Africans (SSAs) live in conditions that exceed the quality of life of 200 million or the bottom 14% of Chinese.

    It’s quite possible still that the top 100 million SSAs live better than the bottom 100 million Chinese as the Chinese in that stratum would still not be able to adequately feed their children while the relative elites of SSA are at least food secure. But this isn’t exactly much to brag about. Perhaps your real point isn’t boastful bravado but just to at least point out China and SSA haven’t diverged so much that they are on different planets like the US would be.

    The African middle class is larger, as a percentage of the population, than China’s.

    There’s no need to be delusional because you are embarrassed about the lack of achievements of your race.

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  223. Bliss says:
    @AaronB
    I favor a more authoritarian and non individualist culture. The state should promote good values and morality. I think tolerance is an illusion - if the good guys abdicate their role you just leave the bad guys free to seize power. We are part of a corporate body influenced in a thousand ways by others.

    Tolerance is an unstable equilibrium - the balance is always tipping. The true battle is between rival visions.

    I also think a human community should be organized around a common vision of the moral good and the purpose of life. Harmony is desirable and dissension should be avoided.

    None of this is compatible with secularism - which leads to the bad flourishing and eventually seizing power as well as lack of unity in a common moral vision, thus atomization and apathy. No good.

    Of course, it need not be too oppressive or tyrannical - we can tread lightly as long as common sense is observed, and in fact in unified communities of this sort wide lattitude is permitted to eccentrics and a surprising amount of personal freedom is allowed - because the fundamentals are secure, society stands on a firm footing.

    I favor a more authoritarian and non individualist culture. The state should promote good values and morality.

    What kind of authoritarianism? Monarchy? Theocracy? Dictatorship?

    Tolerance is an unstable equilibrium – the balance is always tipping. The true battle is between rival visions.

    So you want a people to be united by one Vision, like an intolerant Theocracy? What makes you think such a system is stable considering the historical record (example: 30 Years War)?

    Btw, why don’t you tell us the specific vision that you think is the best?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Monarchy - not just as politics but as sacred kingship, with elements of theocracy - state religion with government promoting morals and values. It cannot merely be a political program but must have sacred and numinous elements.

    Intolerant Theocracy Light - some amount of tolerance is permitted, but within clear limits.

    The 30 years war proves nothing - what about WW1 happening at the very peak of the liberal world order. All systems are flawed and war is as an unavoidable feature on earth until we all become Buddha's absorbed into nirvana, or the second coming occurs.
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  224. utu says:
    @Bliss

    We can’t let you win in this debate which you are forcing on us because we may not let our children to be taught falsities in schools. This is against the fundamental principle of our tradition.
     
    Very funny. Didn’t you just try to peddle these falsities in the previous paragraph:

    ancient Egyptians were more white than modern Egyptians and thus closer to ‘pink’ than to ‘black’

    we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested

    They clearly indicate that there was no significant genetic component from Sub-Saharans Africans (SSA).
     
    1. The numerous wall murals from Ancient Egypt make a liar out of you, so do the numerous descriptions of Egyptians by the Ancient Greeks. No one ever compared the Egyptians to Europeans, or even to their closest neighbors to the north.

    2. For well over 2500 years Egypt has been ruled by foreigners: Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Turks etc who also brought in numerous slaves from the north: from Europe, the Caucasus, Central Asia etc.

    3. The language of Ancient Egypt originated in Africa not in Europe. It is related to Ethiopian and other african languages.

    4. The obsession (of nordicists in particular) to deny the Africanness of Egypt is pathological.


    https://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/750x428p/photos.demandstudios.com/getty/article/88/148/92845974.jpg

    http://brewminate.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/022018-01-Art-Histroy-Ancient-Egypt.png

    http://historylink101.com/n/images/anubis_mummification_dead.jpg

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/140115033026-egypt-luxor-tomb-2-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

    http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/writing/explore/images/tomb.jpg

    https://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2014/01/kheti-tomb-P.jpeg


    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.

    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.

    ‘these people’ you are referring to are painted representations. These are 2-D paintings not people. Keep in mind Korzybski’s dictum: The map is not the territory. On the other hand, DNA samples were taken from mummies of actual people who lived in ancient Egypt. You are not looking at photographs. These are artistic representations according to skills, artistic convention, available pigments and tradition of color coding.

    Each color was created by mixing various naturally occurring elements and each became standardized in time in order to ensure a uniformity in art work. An Egyptian male, for example, was always depicted with a reddish-brown skin which was achieved by mixing a certain amount of the standard red paint recipe with standard brown. Variations in the mix would occur in different eras but, overall, remained more or less the same. This color for the male’s skin was chosen for realism in the piece, in order to symbolize the outdoor life of most males, while Egyptian women were painted with lighter skin (using yellow and white mixes) since they spent more time indoors.

    The gods were typically represented with gold skin, reflecting the belief that gods did, in fact, have gold skin. An exception to this is the god Osiris who is almost always shown with green or black skin symbolizing fertility, regeneration, and the underworld.

    There are also dog-human hybrids on these paintings. As far as I know DNA study did not find canine genes so far. Do you think they should keep looking for canine DNA? If they find canine admixture your belief that the paintings are realistic representation would be greatly reinforced.

    The bottom line is that these paintings can’t be used to determine actual spectral skin albedo of ancient Egyptians. No sane person will claim that they were white as Norwegians and no sane person will claim they were black like Ethiopians or Nigerians. Genetic studies suggest that they had lighter skin than modern inhabitants of Egypt. Perhaps their skin albedo was more like that of modern Syrians or Cypriots.

    The language of Ancient Egypt originated in Africa not in Europe. It is related to Ethiopian and other african languages.

    Get you act together and stop creating strawmen. Nobody is claiming anything about European languages. For obvious reasons very little is known for certain about Egyptian language:

    The Egyptian language belongs to the Afroasiatic language family.[...] Of the other Afroasiatic branches, Egyptian shows its greatest affinities with Berber,[6] Semitic and, to a lesser extent, Cushitic

    Although Egyptian is the oldest Afroasiatic language documented in written form, its morphological repertoire is very different from that of the rest of the Afroasiatic, in general, and Semitic, in particular.[10] There are multiple possibilities: Egyptian had already undergone radical changes from Proto-Afroasiatic before it was recorded, the Afroasiatic family has so far been studied with an excessively Semito-centric approach, or, as G. W. Tsereteli suggests, Afroasiatic is an allogenetic rather than a genetic group of languages.

    The obsession (of nordicists in particular) to deny the Africanness of Egypt is pathological.

    There is no obsession that I know of and there is no pathology in adherence to the truth and being able to discern what is true and what is not, what we know and what we do not know. DNA studies did not find any significant sub-Saharan admixture but found that ancient Egyptian were “more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians.”

    There will be more DNA studies coming so hopefully placing Egyptians on the racial map will be even more precise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    Early depictions of Europeans by the Japanese are somewhat artistic.
    , @Okechukwu

    The bottom line is that these paintings can’t be used to determine actual spectral skin albedo of ancient Egyptians.
     
    While racism as we know it didn't exist in ancient times, the Egyptians certainly were well aware of human coloration and pigmentation. After all, they had eyes.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/From_right_to_left_an_Egyptian%2C_an_Assyrian%2C_a_Nubian%2C_and_Libyans.jpg

    The Egyptian on the far right has a skin tone exactly like mine. The Nubian, third from the right, is depicted very darkly. That's also accurate. Even today, people from present-day Sudan tend to have almost pitch black skin. The light-skinned ones are Asiatics.

    So you're wrong, as you usually are.
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  225. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Bliss

    The idea that American war of independence was a glorious event should fade away.
     
    You got a problem with the Enlightenment? You would rather live under a hereditary monarchy and aristocracy?

    I don’t see how one can argue against rationalism, secularism and meritocratic egalitarianism.

    You got a problem with the Enlightenment?

    I got a whole pile of problems with the Enlightenment. It was a seriously bad idea.

    You would rather live under a hereditary monarchy and aristocracy?

    Yes please.

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  226. @Okechukwu

    Canada and Australia had negligible numbers of Negroes, were both very prosperous and immigration magnet during the 19th century.
     
    Not nearly as much of a magnet as America. Those countries were alternative destinations when the US began turning away "undesirable" whites, employing many of the same arguments those of your ilk use today with respect to people of color (low IQ, criminally inclined, incompatible with western values, etc.). You Russians were among the undesirables. But if we accept that European genetics have this magical quality that misguided race realists attribute to it, why do those Europeans have to go anywhere? Why were they escaping European shithole nations if indeed Europeans are genetically fine-tuned for nation building and excellent governance?

    I did.
     
    Then why do you care about what's going on in the United States? America's problems pale in comparison to Russia's. Ought you not to be focusing on those problems, many of which are existential, rather than wasting your mighty talents writing racist screeds on the Internet? Writings, I might add, which are on the very cusp of violating Article 282 of the Russian statute outlawing hate speech.

    When are you repatriating to Nigeria?
     
    Well, I'm not actually a Nigerian. That's just my heritage. I'm in my country.

    PPP is a more legitimate proxy for living standards (in its per capita version), and for national power (which is of geopolitical relevance).
     
    Nope. PPP is just a theory. It has little real world relevance. Besides, a dollar buys more in Los Angeles than it does in Moscow. And given that Russia is a net importer of most of their consumer goods, the collapse of the ruble makes the cost of living particularly painful. With Russia's GDP per capita at just under $9,000, I'm stunned that the average Russian is able to make ends meet.

    National power is a by-product of economic power. Russia has very little national power. It's nukes are interesting, but they're worthless because they can never be used. For a country of that size, with a population of that size, Russia is very weak by western standards.


    Nominal is more useful for proxying international financial power, and for performing debt burden calculations, where said debts are denominated in foreign currencies (Russia has negligible national debt).
     
    Russia has little international financial power. Its entire economy exists at the whim and with the forbearance of the US Treasury Department, OFAC in particular. Do you know that Russian banks and companies have to observe US sanctions against Russian entities in Russia lest they be shut out of the international financial system? That's the main reason the Duma floated a bill that would criminalize with a prison sentence, the observance of US sanctions within the territory of Russia. But if it ever becomes law they'd have to imprison most of their bankers and oligarchs.

    You Russians were among the undesirables.

    The late 19th century Russian emigration to the US was predominantly Jewish.

    Why were they escaping European shithole nations if indeed Europeans are genetically fine-tuned for nation building and excellent governance?

    Britain isn’t a shithole country – well, it sort of is becoming one, thanks to all the Negroes and Mohammedans it is importing, but it’s not there yet – and yet hundreds of thousands of Britons leave yearly for Canada, Australia, and the US (and Iberia, for retirement).

    Leaving because your own country is a shithole country is something that is more specific to Negroes.

    Writings, I might add, which are on the very cusp of violating Article 282 of the Russian statute outlawing hate speech.

    Happily for me, Negroes are not one of the groups whose feelings the anti-extremism authorities care for.

    Besides, a dollar buys more in Los Angeles than it does in Moscow. And given that Russia is a net importer of most of their consumer goods, the collapse of the ruble makes the cost of living particularly painful. With Russia’s GDP per capita at just under $9,000, I’m stunned that the average Russian is able to make ends meet.

    1. Incorrect.
    2. Incorrect.
    3. With an GDP per capita of $2,000, I am amazed that Nigerians are not starving to death. Well, I’m not, actually. But you should be, since you apparently believe that “PPP is just a theory” (whereas We Wuz Kangz is well-documented history).

    That’s the main reason the Duma floated a bill that would criminalize with a prison sentence, the observance of US sanctions within the territory of Russia. But if it ever becomes law they’d have to imprison most of their bankers and oligarchs.

    As I have written, hopefully that does indeed happen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    The late 19th century Russian emigration to the US was predominantly Jewish
     
    Oh! Da Joooos. LOL.

    Britain isn’t a shithole country
     
    It certainly isn't now but it was a massive shithole in the past when it was all-white. Read Dickens' depiction of British slums. Or go back further to the filth, squalor, poverty, social inequity and constant wars that characterized much of British history. Perhaps it's not by accident that Britain's emergence as a successful, progressive, forward looking country coincided with increased diversity. How are non-diverse Belarus or Moldova doing?

    thanks to all the Negroes and Mohammedans
     
    Why are you concerned with Muslims in Britain when Russia is overrun with them? Muslims make up 4% of the British population. In Russia, Muslims constitute 15% of the population. What's more, a significant percentage of them are antsy and won't long endure in that fake union.

    I've noticed that a great many of you Russians expats in the west (yes, you live in the west in spite of your protestations to the contrary) seem gleefully transfixed by visions of an impeding collapse of the west, all the while breezily oblivious to the more immediate and more eminent collapse of your own Mother Russia.


    1. Incorrect.
     
    This ranking lists Moscow as the 14th most expensive city in the World. Los Angeles is #24.

    Moscow, renowned for its elaborate architecture, is Russia's most expensive city. Here, a two bedroom unfurnished apartment will cost you $4,249

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/20/most-expensive-cities-for-expats.html

    To pay that much for a 2 bedroom apartment in Los Angeles you'd have to go to the toniest parts of Beverly Hills or Malibu. But the average 2 bedroom apartment in LA costs about half the price of a similar apartment in Moscow.


    2. Incorrect.
     
    Let me explain to you how the monetary system works and how currency devaluation increases the price of imported goods.

    Since the introduction of Obama era sanctions the ruble has lost much of its value. Today it's trading at 62-1 USD, whereas prior to sanctions it was in the high 20's to low 30's. Russians import alot of goods because even they don't want Russian made junk. When the ruble was 30-1 that flatscreen TV valued at $800 cost 24,000 rubles. But now that the ruble is 62-1 the same flatscreen costs 49,600 rubles. Get it now?


    since you apparently believe that “PPP is just a theory”
     
    Purchasing power parity hype is misleading and dangerous

    The ongoing hype about purchasing power parity in the Chinese context would be funny were its impact not so dangerous. In a world beset by hunger, violence and strife, data that tells a skewed story adds to the distrust and misinformation that detract from problem-solving.

    And yet that artificial mathematical measure continues to be presented by such revered institutions as the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank as a credible and useful tool for understanding the Chinese economy and where it might be heading.

    China’s own think tanks show little respect for this approach. Since April, when the first forecast of China overtaking the US in PPP terms made global headlines, the official Chinese media have carried rebuttals by Chinese researchers.

    https://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/purchasing-power-parity-hype-is-misleading-and-dangerous-1942810

    The Chinese complaint can be encapsulated by one of the examples given in the article. 1 in 10 Chinese meals are cooked using recycled oil scavenged from drains. Well, there is no US equivalent. The Chinese are poisoning themselves to save a few yuan while the Americans are paying for healthy, FDA certified cooking oil. Similarly, if Russians drink rubbing alcohol or moonshine out of bathtubs then they certainly have an advantage over Americans in terms of the price of liquor. But what are you measuring? You're certainly not measuring productivity and economic dynamism.

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  227. @Anon

    your kind.
     
    Most blacks are decent people. Heck, most Afrocentrists are decent people most of the time.

    Most blacks are decent people

    I’m not sure about that, but certainly there are lots of blacks who are at least smart enough not to believe such absurd fairy tales as Okechukwu…who is simply a tedious idiot who’s got nothing but blackness and the evil of the white man on his mind.

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  228. songbird says:
    @utu

    Any “genetic study” that finds these people to be Europeans should is suspect.
     
    'these people' you are referring to are painted representations. These are 2-D paintings not people. Keep in mind Korzybski's dictum: The map is not the territory. On the other hand, DNA samples were taken from mummies of actual people who lived in ancient Egypt. You are not looking at photographs. These are artistic representations according to skills, artistic convention, available pigments and tradition of color coding.

    Each color was created by mixing various naturally occurring elements and each became standardized in time in order to ensure a uniformity in art work. An Egyptian male, for example, was always depicted with a reddish-brown skin which was achieved by mixing a certain amount of the standard red paint recipe with standard brown. Variations in the mix would occur in different eras but, overall, remained more or less the same. This color for the male's skin was chosen for realism in the piece, in order to symbolize the outdoor life of most males, while Egyptian women were painted with lighter skin (using yellow and white mixes) since they spent more time indoors.

    The gods were typically represented with gold skin, reflecting the belief that gods did, in fact, have gold skin. An exception to this is the god Osiris who is almost always shown with green or black skin symbolizing fertility, regeneration, and the underworld.
     
    There are also dog-human hybrids on these paintings. As far as I know DNA study did not find canine genes so far. Do you think they should keep looking for canine DNA? If they find canine admixture your belief that the paintings are realistic representation would be greatly reinforced.

    The bottom line is that these paintings can't be used to determine actual spectral skin albedo of ancient Egyptians. No sane person will claim that they were white as Norwegians and no sane person will claim they were black like Ethiopians or Nigerians. Genetic studies suggest that they had lighter skin than modern inhabitants of Egypt. Perhaps their skin albedo was more like that of modern Syrians or Cypriots.

    The language of Ancient Egypt originated in Africa not in Europe. It is related to Ethiopian and other african languages.
     
    Get you act together and stop creating strawmen. Nobody is claiming anything about European languages. For obvious reasons very little is known for certain about Egyptian language:

    The Egyptian language belongs to the Afroasiatic language family.[...] Of the other Afroasiatic branches, Egyptian shows its greatest affinities with Berber,[6] Semitic and, to a lesser extent, Cushitic

    Although Egyptian is the oldest Afroasiatic language documented in written form, its morphological repertoire is very different from that of the rest of the Afroasiatic, in general, and Semitic, in particular.[10] There are multiple possibilities: Egyptian had already undergone radical changes from Proto-Afroasiatic before it was recorded, the Afroasiatic family has so far been studied with an excessively Semito-centric approach, or, as G. W. Tsereteli suggests, Afroasiatic is an allogenetic rather than a genetic group of languages.
     

    The obsession (of nordicists in particular) to deny the Africanness of Egypt is pathological.
     
    There is no obsession that I know of and there is no pathology in adherence to the truth and being able to discern what is true and what is not, what we know and what we do not know. DNA studies did not find any significant sub-Saharan admixture but found that ancient Egyptian were "more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians."

    There will be more DNA studies coming so hopefully placing Egyptians on the racial map will be even more precise.

    Early depictions of Europeans by the Japanese are somewhat artistic.

    Read More
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  229. @Bliss

    We can’t let you win in this debate which you are forcing on us because we may not let our children to be taught falsities in schools. This is against the fundamental principle of our tradition.
     
    Very funny. Didn’t you just try to peddle these falsities in the previous paragraph:

    ancient Egyptians were more white than modern Egyptians and thus closer to ‘pink’ than to ‘black’