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There are often questions in the comments about Egor Kholmogorov’s stance on various things, e.g. about how he reconciles his Orthodox beliefs with Russian ethnonationalism.

So I prepared something different from our usual fare of serious longreads – a series of translations of his social media posts, where he briefly but succinctly addresses some of the most common of these questions.

Not all of this is going to make all our readers very happy. But we make no apologies for it.

***

On Orthodoxy and the Russian State

One more time, friends…

I was, am, and will remain a Russian Orthodox nationalist monarchist.

For me, Holy Rus’ was always, and will always remain, more precious than the Empire, while the Russian Empire, the historical Russia – will be infinitely more precious than the Soviet Union.

In the realm of the spirit, my foremost guide is Orthodox Christianity as propounded in the traditional teachings of the Orthodox Church, while in the realm of politics, it is the vital interests of the Russian people.

I am prepared to respect the USSR to the extent that it does not contradict the Russian Empire, and in turn, I respect the Empire to the extent that it does not contradict, but continues Holy Rus’.

I am prepared to respect other spiritual traditions to the extent that they are not hostile to Orthodox Christianity, and to respect other ideological programs to the extent that their realization does not come at the expense of the vital interests of the Russian people.

If you expected some other position from me, it is not on account of my positions having changed, but on you having been mistaken in understanding my point of view. I change my position only with respect to certain topics and figures within the underlying system of moral coordinates specified above.

***

On the USSR

  1. Our homeland is Rusia.
  2. The USSR was a set of separatist polities on the ruins of our Motherland.
  3. The Russian people were deprived of their rights and political subjectivity in the USSR.
  4. It was precisely the administrative-territorial setup of the USSR that made it easy to dismember Russian national territories: To create the Ukraine, to give it the Donbass and Crimea, to create Kazakhstan, to give it Southern Siberia, etc.
  5. The cause of the collapse of the USSR was the creation of the USSR. Its disintegration was preordained and constitutionally enshrined upon its creation.
  6. The Declaration of the State Sovereignty of the RSFSR on June 12, 1990 did not constitute the restoration of Russian statehood, but a second round of Soviet separatism.
  7. Only through cruel and bloody methods was a third round of separatism avoided – the secession of the autonomous republics from the RSFSR.
  8. The Russians need to restore their sovereignty within Russia and the territorial unity of the Russian people within realistic borders. Our task is to transform the Russian Federation into Russia.
  9. All talk about “USSR 2.0” and similar schemes are but an attempt to once again deprive Russians of their statehood, to steal our homeland once again, and is therefore unacceptable.
  10. Glory to Russia!

***

On Ethnonationalism

So, about the inevitable discussion about civic nationalism and ethnonationalism.

I have always been, and remain, an unambiguous supporter of ethnonationalism, and an opponent of civic nationalism as a substitute – as opposed to a complement to – ethnonationalism.

This distinguishes me from many other Russian nationalists, including some famous ones.

What is important for me is precisely the Russian ethnos as an anthropological, biological, social, and ethno-demographic reality. I want the Russian people to preserve itself, to develop, to flourish, and not to reject other people. I do not want the Russian people to splinter apart, or to dissolve. And I consider my own job as helping provide the Russian people with more opportunities to improve its existence. So one can view my nationalism as a sort of political ethnocentrism.

The ethnos is a system for the reproduction of cultural life adaptations and collective reference points that are imbibed from the cradle onwards. Ethnicity is a foundational intuition, which does away with the need for its people to make contractual agreements on solidarity for collective survival and development. In this sense, one can be born into an ethnicity, one can be brought into it, one can join it, but one can’t just register with it as one would with a political party.

Russification is not about declaring oneself to be Russian; it is about living with Russians, and merging into the Russian flow of life on all levels, from the mundane and familial, to the ideational and the political. This is often quite easy, if competing identities are not so strong that they shift the intuitive solidarity of the person in question away from Russians to representatives of his ethnic group.

It is of course the case that Russian culture is more than just ethnographic culture, and Russian history is more than just ethnic history – but neither one nor the other is possible without the Russian ethnographic core. Consequently, preserving and strengthening this core is necessary, as opposed to diluting it with “multi-nationality.” The sad experience of civic nations at the start of the 21st demonstrate that their fate is to become multiracial conglomerates, subsumed by stronger and more aggressive identities – Islamic, Mexican, etc. So if I was faced with the choice of ethnic isolation, or sharing the fate of the French or American nations, I would choose ethnic isolation.

Fortunately, we need not make such a choice. The potential influence of the Russian ethnos is so great that it casually draws myriads of peoples and ethnic groups, and gently grinds them down. And I am, of course, a categorical assimilationist. My own distant ancestors were assimilated Slavs, and merged with the Russian ethnos as its northern component, which carries the N1a1 haplogroup. And I feel great about this, and I am therefore certain, that all Finno-Ugric peoples should be honored to become fully merged with the Russian ethnos. The same awaits many other peoples, and not only Orthodox ones. And this is a wonderful thing – they will leave elements of their own culture, of their language, of their historical memory, in the wider landscape of Russian culture – but in the end, they will become Russians, specifically ethnic Russians, and not just “civic Russians” under a common geopolitical roof.

Consequently, I am hardly bothered by those people who run around, ranting about their Papuan second cousin and yelling, “What, are you now going to exclude me from the Russians?” To the contrary, we are more than happy to include you – life with Russians, marry them, and such questions would not even arise with your grandchildren. It is you more than anyone else who is obsessively combing over your family tree to find some trace of foreign ancestry, so as to present yourselves as not quite Russians, or not Russians like everyone else. That is your choice, and not that of Russian nationalists.

The task of Russian nationalists, the target of our political ethnocentrism, is not to infringe on anyone’s rights, or to exclude someone from the Russian people, but to create the most favorable political conditions for securing and developing the Russian people on all levels – political unity, demographic reproduction, economic well-being, and cultural expansion. At the end of the day, the goal of Russian nationalism is to make sure that the Russian people prosper, that they are happy, and that they are surrounded by a beautiful reality that calls our soul to the heavens, instead of dragging them into the grave.

There is absolutely no reason to restrict the rights of other peoples for Russians to accomplish this. All that the Russians need to do is to not allow other people to dominate them, to impose on them that what is alien, or to take away from them that what is theirs. It is to escape such conflicts that Russian nationalists call on everyone to become Russians, in the above sense of mutual life and gradual integration.

The juxtaposition of the “ethnic” balalaika and the “national” Tchaikovsky is a false one. The balalaika is not just Russian per se, and the Iolanta is not just a cosmopolitan opus that happened to be written by a Russian. What is Russian? It is the ethnic folk song At the Gates of Batyushkin woven into Tchaikovsky’s “national” overture 1812, one of the most frequently performed works in the world music repertoire. Remove the melody, and you will have neither nationality, nor cosmopolitanism.

At the end of the day, to be Russian – it is partake of a great culture, ta great history, ta great language, a great repository of scientific accomplishments. It is to have access to all the achievements of civilization – Russian, European, Classical, and many others. At the end of the day, the Russian language hosts the world’s only complete translation of the works of Sima Qian, so even Chinese culture is not entirely remote. To be Russian is to be a complete person, it is to maximize one’s capacities for the self-realization of the human spirit, which only a few other civilizations have on the planet. And if someone wants to be English or Chinese, then it would be logical for him to go there, instead of muddying the water here.

So I see no need to hide our Russian ethnic foundation or our Russian ethnic identity, to apologize for it or to be embarrassed by it, or to consider it as something optional.

 
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  1. The same awaits many other peoples, and not only Orthodox ones. And this is a wonderful thing – they will leave elements of their own culture, of their language, of their historical memory, in the wider landscape of Russian culture – but in the end, they will become Russians, specifically ethnic Russians, and not just “civic Russians” under a common geopolitical roof.

    How is this different to the standard cuckservative? Mega African population growth and migrations will consume Europe, you think they will stop once Western Europe has succumb? I can already see the future stories of people in Nigeria wanting to “become Russian”, which based on what Kholmogorov is arguing, he would be very happy with.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I think it's more about Russia's existing ethnic minorities. Kholmogorov basically wants them to disappear by Russification. I suppose that's why his language is often so vague and flowery, since that goal obviously could lead to conflict if some of those groups (which are living in their native country after all) don't just want to be submerged into the "superior" Russian identity.
  2. Although this talk of haplogroups is popular in some quarters of the internet, I find it a peculiar point to make beyond anthropological research.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I imagine finding out there are American blacks with your hap makes it seem much less meaningful in the sense of group identity.

    For me, what is mainly interesting about them is pondering their biological significance: metabolism/heat gen, disease resistence, possible self-domestication.

    But I think everyone loves a story, and bringing your family's history into pre-historic times however superficially has an almost universal appeal. I consider it to be a natural consequence of a lack of knowledge about one's family history. Who wouldn't like to step into a time machine and find out more?
    , @Anonymous
    The word "haplogroup" was a dead giveaway that we are dealing with somebody who is hopelessly online - this is exactly the type of jargon that one would casually throw out when talking to fellow readers of Anatoly Karlin or Greg Cochran or Razib Khan, but leaves the other 99.9% of people scratching their heads in confusion.

    See also his reference to the "Finno-Ugric peoples," a linguistic construction that has little-to-no bearing on current geopolitical realities. If he wants to say that Finnish or Estonian (or Hungarian?) peoples should merge themselves with Russia, then say that; but it's going to be a very different conversation in each case, despite their shared "Finno-Ugric" identity.
    , @DFH
    It seems strange to me to use haplogroups in particular, since they don't say that much about overall genetic similarity
  3. @neutral

    The same awaits many other peoples, and not only Orthodox ones. And this is a wonderful thing – they will leave elements of their own culture, of their language, of their historical memory, in the wider landscape of Russian culture – but in the end, they will become Russians, specifically ethnic Russians, and not just “civic Russians” under a common geopolitical roof.
     
    How is this different to the standard cuckservative? Mega African population growth and migrations will consume Europe, you think they will stop once Western Europe has succumb? I can already see the future stories of people in Nigeria wanting to "become Russian", which based on what Kholmogorov is arguing, he would be very happy with.

    I think it’s more about Russia’s existing ethnic minorities. Kholmogorov basically wants them to disappear by Russification. I suppose that’s why his language is often so vague and flowery, since that goal obviously could lead to conflict if some of those groups (which are living in their native country after all) don’t just want to be submerged into the “superior” Russian identity.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    You're right. It's not only Russia's ethnic minorities that cling to their ethnic attributes, but their large neighbor to the south, that undoubtedly exhibits more of the highly exalted A1n1 haplogroup than even ethnic Russians themselves. For the last 5 year or so, Ukrainians have exhibited greater and greater tendencies to resist being subsumed into the larger Russian world that Kholmogorov so glibly tries to promote. The recent achievement of the Tomos that provides the Ukrainian Orthodox church with a true sense of autonomy away from the Russian church is just the latest manifestation of this process. Basically, I think that Kholmogorov is as delusional as most Russian nationalists. As far as Russian minorities within Russia itself, I think that the recent developments in Tatarstan are quite telling:

    https://youtu.be/GYN9gUMEXaE

    , @Yevardian
    All I see is more endless Russian chauvinist butthurt about Ukrainian and Baltic existence. I'm quite fond of Russia, but I would not like to see my culture (such as it), Georgia's or even the motley collection of Ugric meme-ethnicities to be absorbed into one amorphous 'great Russian' mass.

    Fuck all these pseudo-intellectual ideologue fake patriots like Kholmogorov, Solzhenitsyn and Dugin. A single article by any mainstream commentator like Starikov or Zhirik has more content and humour than any of these sinecures could produce in their lifetime. All this is BS for professional agitators and useful idiots looking to undermine the country. How many Russian commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?
    , @melanf

    I think it’s more about Russia’s existing ethnic minorities. Kholmogorov basically wants them to disappear by Russification.
     
    This process (assimilation) goes regardless of anyone's desires (with a few exceptions). While the policy of the state on the contrary is aimed at maintaining the existence of minorities. This leads to anecdotal situations - in Russia there is a Jewish autonomy in which there are no Jews. And since (according to state policy) Jewish holidays should be celebrated in the Jewish autonomy, Russians disguised as Jews perform on these holidays.

    https://b.radikal.ru/b04/1812/6b/4b282a050b0d.jpg

    http://xn--80ajpl7a.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/11-5.jpg

    https://c.radikal.ru/c13/1812/e5/c692aaaa1706.jpg

    Kholmogorov has zero influence in Russia, why smart Karlin spends time translating these articles is a mystery to me.

  4. Jared Diamond seems to consider Papuans to be the world’s Übermenchen, but he did not seek his bride there.

    I guess he did not want to dilute their genepool with his inferior blood.

    • LOL: Bill
  5. Preserving the Russian nation isn’t merely a matter of cultivating a proud ethnocentric attitude on the part of the Russian people.

    No matter how proud Russians may be, or how appealing their culture may be, too many immigrants who are too different from the Russians in terms of race, language, religion and political history will be unassimilable – especially the extremely highly ethnocentric peoples of the Middle East.

    Not every people group in the world is a small Finnic tribe eager to be assimilated into Holy Rus.

    At one time, Americans were proud ethnonationalists – so much so, that we complacently allowed virtually unrestricted immigration, arrogantly assuming that our identity was so overwhelmingly appealing that it had a virtually unlimited ability to assimilate newcomers.

    By the time we Americans awakened from our hubristic daydream in 1924, it was too late. Huge unassimilable blocks of people were present in our midst with legal rights, and their #1 political and cultural goal was to utterly crush American ethnonationalism. Over the course of the past 100 years, they’ve largely succeeded.

    Immigration and imperialism are the two sure methods of committing national suicide. Both create a vast constituency within the body politic for civic nationalism and other poisonous ideologies.

    Would civic nationalism have developed in France if the French kings had been wise enough to limit their conquests at the linguistic boundary? There would have been no need for revolutionaries to concoct a “French” identity flexible enough to include Germans and Italians if the Bourbons hadn’t annexed Alsace and Corsica.

    Likewise, the Latvian Bolshevik riflemen Karlin is always complaining about wouldn’t have been part of the Russian body politic if the czars had limited their conquests to areas east of the current western borders of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    At one time, Americans were proud ethnonationalists – so much so, that we complacently allowed virtually unrestricted immigration, arrogantly assuming that our identity was so overwhelmingly appealing that it had a virtually unlimited ability to assimilate newcomers.
     
    That is not ethnonationalism, that's a very universalistic concept.

    Actually, tacking ethno- to nationalism sounds odd, because 'civic nationalism' is not really a thing.

    I was actually quite surprised to learn that Henry Ford of The International Jew fame ran 'English Schools' at his factories, which celebrated at the end of the course with a ceremony of foreigners (effectively Europeans) coming in national peasant clothes and exiting as Americans.


    Would civic nationalism have developed in France if the French kings had been wise enough to limit their conquests at the linguistic boundary? There would have been no need for revolutionaries to concoct a “French” identity flexible enough to include Germans and Italians if the Bourbons hadn’t annexed Alsace and Corsica.
     
    France is 'culture-based' and Germany is 'blood-based' seems more to derive from the respective self-conceptions of their intellectuals than it does how French and Germans actually behaved in reality.

    Traditional liberal French nationalists sought to eradicate local identities in favour of a national French identity focused on Parisian customs (e.g. the Jacobins during the Revolution and Jules Ferry during the IIIrd Republic)

    In fact it was prominent conservatives at the time (e.g. Maurice Barrès) who defended local languages and identities.

    While France had in the past accepted people with Italian or German heritage, it isn't so different from Prussia accepting French huguenots or Germanised western Slavs.

    , @songbird
    I wonder how practical a wider annexation in Europe would have been for the French. I get the sense (from some short story of fiction or other) that they faced an insurgency.

    Don't know if a purely linguistic argument works though because it makes it hard to draw lines in 19th Europe for reasonably-sized countries, what with dialects and other languages. Southern French and Corsicans are probably quite similar. There's no way Napolean was widely perceived as an alien. He would not have had an army waiting for him when he left Elba.

    Corsica is hardly Puerto Rico. I can't think of a good negative analogy for Alsace - I think we'd all like to invade it.

    I wonder if anyone ever calculated genetic distances of empires, based on group sizes of constituent populations. What would be greatest distance/least stable in Europe? Austria-Hungary or Russia of the Czars?
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    You're nuts if you think Americans were ever really "proud ethnonationalists." Real ethnonationalism existed only on the fringes of this country's thought in the 19th century.
  6. @Hyperborean
    Although this talk of haplogroups is popular in some quarters of the internet, I find it a peculiar point to make beyond anthropological research.

    I imagine finding out there are American blacks with your hap makes it seem much less meaningful in the sense of group identity.

    For me, what is mainly interesting about them is pondering their biological significance: metabolism/heat gen, disease resistence, possible self-domestication.

    But I think everyone loves a story, and bringing your family’s history into pre-historic times however superficially has an almost universal appeal. I consider it to be a natural consequence of a lack of knowledge about one’s family history. Who wouldn’t like to step into a time machine and find out more?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    I consider it to be a natural consequence of a lack of knowledge about one’s family history. Who wouldn’t like to step into a time machine and find out more?
     
    I think that might be part of it. I am reasonably well aware of my family history, so I've never really seen the point of taking a DNA test or something like that. Asking my parents and relatives was enough for me.
  7. @John Gruskos
    Preserving the Russian nation isn't merely a matter of cultivating a proud ethnocentric attitude on the part of the Russian people.

    No matter how proud Russians may be, or how appealing their culture may be, too many immigrants who are too different from the Russians in terms of race, language, religion and political history will be unassimilable - especially the extremely highly ethnocentric peoples of the Middle East.

    Not every people group in the world is a small Finnic tribe eager to be assimilated into Holy Rus.

    At one time, Americans were proud ethnonationalists - so much so, that we complacently allowed virtually unrestricted immigration, arrogantly assuming that our identity was so overwhelmingly appealing that it had a virtually unlimited ability to assimilate newcomers.

    By the time we Americans awakened from our hubristic daydream in 1924, it was too late. Huge unassimilable blocks of people were present in our midst with legal rights, and their #1 political and cultural goal was to utterly crush American ethnonationalism. Over the course of the past 100 years, they've largely succeeded.

    Immigration and imperialism are the two sure methods of committing national suicide. Both create a vast constituency within the body politic for civic nationalism and other poisonous ideologies.

    Would civic nationalism have developed in France if the French kings had been wise enough to limit their conquests at the linguistic boundary? There would have been no need for revolutionaries to concoct a "French" identity flexible enough to include Germans and Italians if the Bourbons hadn't annexed Alsace and Corsica.

    Likewise, the Latvian Bolshevik riflemen Karlin is always complaining about wouldn't have been part of the Russian body politic if the czars had limited their conquests to areas east of the current western borders of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine.

    At one time, Americans were proud ethnonationalists – so much so, that we complacently allowed virtually unrestricted immigration, arrogantly assuming that our identity was so overwhelmingly appealing that it had a virtually unlimited ability to assimilate newcomers.

    That is not ethnonationalism, that’s a very universalistic concept.

    Actually, tacking ethno- to nationalism sounds odd, because ‘civic nationalism’ is not really a thing.

    I was actually quite surprised to learn that Henry Ford of The International Jew fame ran ‘English Schools’ at his factories, which celebrated at the end of the course with a ceremony of foreigners (effectively Europeans) coming in national peasant clothes and exiting as Americans.

    Would civic nationalism have developed in France if the French kings had been wise enough to limit their conquests at the linguistic boundary? There would have been no need for revolutionaries to concoct a “French” identity flexible enough to include Germans and Italians if the Bourbons hadn’t annexed Alsace and Corsica.

    France is ‘culture-based’ and Germany is ‘blood-based’ seems more to derive from the respective self-conceptions of their intellectuals than it does how French and Germans actually behaved in reality.

    Traditional liberal French nationalists sought to eradicate local identities in favour of a national French identity focused on Parisian customs (e.g. the Jacobins during the Revolution and Jules Ferry during the IIIrd Republic)

    In fact it was prominent conservatives at the time (e.g. Maurice Barrès) who defended local languages and identities.

    While France had in the past accepted people with Italian or German heritage, it isn’t so different from Prussia accepting French huguenots or Germanised western Slavs.

  8. @songbird
    I imagine finding out there are American blacks with your hap makes it seem much less meaningful in the sense of group identity.

    For me, what is mainly interesting about them is pondering their biological significance: metabolism/heat gen, disease resistence, possible self-domestication.

    But I think everyone loves a story, and bringing your family's history into pre-historic times however superficially has an almost universal appeal. I consider it to be a natural consequence of a lack of knowledge about one's family history. Who wouldn't like to step into a time machine and find out more?

    I consider it to be a natural consequence of a lack of knowledge about one’s family history. Who wouldn’t like to step into a time machine and find out more?

    I think that might be part of it. I am reasonably well aware of my family history, so I’ve never really seen the point of taking a DNA test or something like that. Asking my parents and relatives was enough for me.

  9. @John Gruskos
    Preserving the Russian nation isn't merely a matter of cultivating a proud ethnocentric attitude on the part of the Russian people.

    No matter how proud Russians may be, or how appealing their culture may be, too many immigrants who are too different from the Russians in terms of race, language, religion and political history will be unassimilable - especially the extremely highly ethnocentric peoples of the Middle East.

    Not every people group in the world is a small Finnic tribe eager to be assimilated into Holy Rus.

    At one time, Americans were proud ethnonationalists - so much so, that we complacently allowed virtually unrestricted immigration, arrogantly assuming that our identity was so overwhelmingly appealing that it had a virtually unlimited ability to assimilate newcomers.

    By the time we Americans awakened from our hubristic daydream in 1924, it was too late. Huge unassimilable blocks of people were present in our midst with legal rights, and their #1 political and cultural goal was to utterly crush American ethnonationalism. Over the course of the past 100 years, they've largely succeeded.

    Immigration and imperialism are the two sure methods of committing national suicide. Both create a vast constituency within the body politic for civic nationalism and other poisonous ideologies.

    Would civic nationalism have developed in France if the French kings had been wise enough to limit their conquests at the linguistic boundary? There would have been no need for revolutionaries to concoct a "French" identity flexible enough to include Germans and Italians if the Bourbons hadn't annexed Alsace and Corsica.

    Likewise, the Latvian Bolshevik riflemen Karlin is always complaining about wouldn't have been part of the Russian body politic if the czars had limited their conquests to areas east of the current western borders of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine.

    I wonder how practical a wider annexation in Europe would have been for the French. I get the sense (from some short story of fiction or other) that they faced an insurgency.

    Don’t know if a purely linguistic argument works though because it makes it hard to draw lines in 19th Europe for reasonably-sized countries, what with dialects and other languages. Southern French and Corsicans are probably quite similar. There’s no way Napolean was widely perceived as an alien. He would not have had an army waiting for him when he left Elba.

    Corsica is hardly Puerto Rico. I can’t think of a good negative analogy for Alsace – I think we’d all like to invade it.

    I wonder if anyone ever calculated genetic distances of empires, based on group sizes of constituent populations. What would be greatest distance/least stable in Europe? Austria-Hungary or Russia of the Czars?

  10. Merry Christmas all!

    • Replies: @Spisarevski

    Merry Christmas all!
     
    Hey, I wondered where you've been.
    Merry Christmas to you too!
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Merry Christmas!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1wHyMR_SCA
    , @reiner Tor
    Merry Christmas!
  11. @German_reader
    I think it's more about Russia's existing ethnic minorities. Kholmogorov basically wants them to disappear by Russification. I suppose that's why his language is often so vague and flowery, since that goal obviously could lead to conflict if some of those groups (which are living in their native country after all) don't just want to be submerged into the "superior" Russian identity.

    You’re right. It’s not only Russia’s ethnic minorities that cling to their ethnic attributes, but their large neighbor to the south, that undoubtedly exhibits more of the highly exalted A1n1 haplogroup than even ethnic Russians themselves. For the last 5 year or so, Ukrainians have exhibited greater and greater tendencies to resist being subsumed into the larger Russian world that Kholmogorov so glibly tries to promote. The recent achievement of the Tomos that provides the Ukrainian Orthodox church with a true sense of autonomy away from the Russian church is just the latest manifestation of this process. Basically, I think that Kholmogorov is as delusional as most Russian nationalists. As far as Russian minorities within Russia itself, I think that the recent developments in Tatarstan are quite telling:

    • Replies: @neutral
    The Ukrainian situation is as daft as the Scottish National Party that wants "independence" by moving from the UK into the EU. Last time I checked Ukraine is still white, and there is absolutely no way that the regime you latched on will tolerate any form of national identity that is for white people. Sure they will take advantage of useful idiot stuff like sending warships into Russian territory, but long term the Orthodox church will forced to converge to the typical SJW stuff, the culture will be forced to accept all the norms of America (gay marriage, mass immigration, anti white discrimination, no gender roles, rewriting the past).
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    You people are seriously celebrating an "achievement" that is ...

    1) Outside the historical precedent of Orthodoxy
    2) Clearly inspired by the CIA*

    * The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of the United States mysteriously announces that funds for a new church near the World Trade Center had "disappeared," and then, suddenly, Bartholomew agrees to recognize a man widely recognized as a schismatic beforehand.

    I wish you well in your attempt to reconcile Ukrainian nationalism with the ideology of your CIA masters.

    God will judge those who go along with this.
  12. @German_reader
    I think it's more about Russia's existing ethnic minorities. Kholmogorov basically wants them to disappear by Russification. I suppose that's why his language is often so vague and flowery, since that goal obviously could lead to conflict if some of those groups (which are living in their native country after all) don't just want to be submerged into the "superior" Russian identity.

    All I see is more endless Russian chauvinist butthurt about Ukrainian and Baltic existence. I’m quite fond of Russia, but I would not like to see my culture (such as it), Georgia’s or even the motley collection of Ugric meme-ethnicities to be absorbed into one amorphous ‘great Russian’ mass.

    Fuck all these pseudo-intellectual ideologue fake patriots like Kholmogorov, Solzhenitsyn and Dugin. A single article by any mainstream commentator like Starikov or Zhirik has more content and humour than any of these sinecures could produce in their lifetime. All this is BS for professional agitators and useful idiots looking to undermine the country. How many Russian commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?

    • Replies: @Epigon
    1. I think there is a significant difference between Kholmgorov, Solzhenitsyn and Dugin.

    2. I don't see Russian nationalists claiming Baltic countries

    3. His insistence on Holy Rus' should be reflected in his stance on Ukrainians and Belarusians, which should treat them as equal heirs of Medieval Rus'

    4. This is an interesting article because it exposes a line of thinking that is alien to most of people frequenting this site.

    5. I guess you are an Armenian, so you can't share the authors sentiment towards Georgians and Armenians in Russia, and the problem of ethnic minorities forming subgroups that refuse to assimilate and which undermine the society through tribalist/nepotist networks.
    I guess time will show which direction will New Armenia go, but I suppose that the vast USA diaspora will play a part in moving Armenia away from Russia as well.

    6. How do Miaphysites celebrate Christmas?

    , @Dmitry

    commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?
     
    I never understood the reason to write rude comments to him. His blog is the reason anyone is here - and so he was responsible for all the hours of entertainment you had writing here. (Where would you be writing your opinions otherwise - YouTube comments?)
    , @Anatoly Karlin

    How many Russian commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?
     
    Almost all of whom are emigres, not Russian, or both (such as yourself).

    Update. Thank you Mr. Hack for so eloquently and succinctly making my point.
  13. Anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hyperborean
    Although this talk of haplogroups is popular in some quarters of the internet, I find it a peculiar point to make beyond anthropological research.

    The word “haplogroup” was a dead giveaway that we are dealing with somebody who is hopelessly online – this is exactly the type of jargon that one would casually throw out when talking to fellow readers of Anatoly Karlin or Greg Cochran or Razib Khan, but leaves the other 99.9% of people scratching their heads in confusion.

    See also his reference to the “Finno-Ugric peoples,” a linguistic construction that has little-to-no bearing on current geopolitical realities. If he wants to say that Finnish or Estonian (or Hungarian?) peoples should merge themselves with Russia, then say that; but it’s going to be a very different conversation in each case, despite their shared “Finno-Ugric” identity.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    If he wants to say that Finnish or Estonian (or Hungarian?) peoples should merge themselves with Russia, then say that; but it’s going to be a very different conversation in each case, despite their shared “Finno-Ugric” identity.
     
    I think Kholmogorov is referring to the small Finnic groups like the Mari that live in what is now Russia (and I suppose the other 100+ >2% nationalities in Russia).

    Although, if Karlin's map of the ethnicity of newborn Russians is correct, Kholmogorov does not need to worry (except the Caucasus).
  14. @Anonymous
    The word "haplogroup" was a dead giveaway that we are dealing with somebody who is hopelessly online - this is exactly the type of jargon that one would casually throw out when talking to fellow readers of Anatoly Karlin or Greg Cochran or Razib Khan, but leaves the other 99.9% of people scratching their heads in confusion.

    See also his reference to the "Finno-Ugric peoples," a linguistic construction that has little-to-no bearing on current geopolitical realities. If he wants to say that Finnish or Estonian (or Hungarian?) peoples should merge themselves with Russia, then say that; but it's going to be a very different conversation in each case, despite their shared "Finno-Ugric" identity.

    If he wants to say that Finnish or Estonian (or Hungarian?) peoples should merge themselves with Russia, then say that; but it’s going to be a very different conversation in each case, despite their shared “Finno-Ugric” identity.

    I think Kholmogorov is referring to the small Finnic groups like the Mari that live in what is now Russia (and I suppose the other 100+ >2% nationalities in Russia).

    Although, if Karlin’s map of the ethnicity of newborn Russians is correct, Kholmogorov does not need to worry (except the Caucasus).

  15. @German_reader
    I think it's more about Russia's existing ethnic minorities. Kholmogorov basically wants them to disappear by Russification. I suppose that's why his language is often so vague and flowery, since that goal obviously could lead to conflict if some of those groups (which are living in their native country after all) don't just want to be submerged into the "superior" Russian identity.

    I think it’s more about Russia’s existing ethnic minorities. Kholmogorov basically wants them to disappear by Russification.

    This process (assimilation) goes regardless of anyone’s desires (with a few exceptions). While the policy of the state on the contrary is aimed at maintaining the existence of minorities. This leads to anecdotal situations – in Russia there is a Jewish autonomy in which there are no Jews. And since (according to state policy) Jewish holidays should be celebrated in the Jewish autonomy, Russians disguised as Jews perform on these holidays.

    Kholmogorov has zero influence in Russia, why smart Karlin spends time translating these articles is a mystery to me.

    • Replies: @neutral

    Russians disguised as Jews perform on these holidays
     
    Truly weird, normally it is jews that disguise themselves as Russian/German/French/American/etc. I can only make sense of this by thinking that they have to keep doing this otherwise the outside world will accuse them of being anti semitic by dropping a jewish holiday (or whatever that event is supposed to be).
    , @Mr. Hack

    Kholmogorov has zero influence in Russia, why smart Karlin spends time translating these articles is a mystery to me.
     
    The answer to this question is really quite simple - this is the kind of nonsense that Karlin believes in!
    I've been following his site now for several years and he makes no bones about being a hardcore Russian nationalist. He may not run around with a shaved head gesticulating arm gestures when he expresses these beliefs, but they're definitely there for all to see. I actually appreciate reading this kind of stuff, for it allows me a corridor into the minds of these kinds of fanatics.
  16. @Daniel Chieh
    Merry Christmas all!

    Merry Christmas all!

    Hey, I wondered where you’ve been.
    Merry Christmas to you too!

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Do Bulgarian dogs celebrate Christmas too?
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Thank you! My work has been keeping me very busy but hopefully I shall be spamming my comments soon again on Mr. Karlin's blog.
  17. @Spisarevski

    Merry Christmas all!
     
    Hey, I wondered where you've been.
    Merry Christmas to you too!

    Do Bulgarian dogs celebrate Christmas too?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Hey, that’s AaronB’s joke.
    , @Spisarevski
    If you are going to repeat other people's jokes at least pick someone funnier than utu.
  18. @Yevardian
    All I see is more endless Russian chauvinist butthurt about Ukrainian and Baltic existence. I'm quite fond of Russia, but I would not like to see my culture (such as it), Georgia's or even the motley collection of Ugric meme-ethnicities to be absorbed into one amorphous 'great Russian' mass.

    Fuck all these pseudo-intellectual ideologue fake patriots like Kholmogorov, Solzhenitsyn and Dugin. A single article by any mainstream commentator like Starikov or Zhirik has more content and humour than any of these sinecures could produce in their lifetime. All this is BS for professional agitators and useful idiots looking to undermine the country. How many Russian commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?

    1. I think there is a significant difference between Kholmgorov, Solzhenitsyn and Dugin.

    2. I don’t see Russian nationalists claiming Baltic countries

    3. His insistence on Holy Rus’ should be reflected in his stance on Ukrainians and Belarusians, which should treat them as equal heirs of Medieval Rus’

    4. This is an interesting article because it exposes a line of thinking that is alien to most of people frequenting this site.

    5. I guess you are an Armenian, so you can’t share the authors sentiment towards Georgians and Armenians in Russia, and the problem of ethnic minorities forming subgroups that refuse to assimilate and which undermine the society through tribalist/nepotist networks.
    I guess time will show which direction will New Armenia go, but I suppose that the vast USA diaspora will play a part in moving Armenia away from Russia as well.

    6. How do Miaphysites celebrate Christmas?

  19. @melanf

    I think it’s more about Russia’s existing ethnic minorities. Kholmogorov basically wants them to disappear by Russification.
     
    This process (assimilation) goes regardless of anyone's desires (with a few exceptions). While the policy of the state on the contrary is aimed at maintaining the existence of minorities. This leads to anecdotal situations - in Russia there is a Jewish autonomy in which there are no Jews. And since (according to state policy) Jewish holidays should be celebrated in the Jewish autonomy, Russians disguised as Jews perform on these holidays.

    https://b.radikal.ru/b04/1812/6b/4b282a050b0d.jpg

    http://xn--80ajpl7a.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/11-5.jpg

    https://c.radikal.ru/c13/1812/e5/c692aaaa1706.jpg

    Kholmogorov has zero influence in Russia, why smart Karlin spends time translating these articles is a mystery to me.

    Russians disguised as Jews perform on these holidays

    Truly weird, normally it is jews that disguise themselves as Russian/German/French/American/etc. I can only make sense of this by thinking that they have to keep doing this otherwise the outside world will accuse them of being anti semitic by dropping a jewish holiday (or whatever that event is supposed to be).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well melanf is not explaining his example.

    There is place in the Far East of Russia which was for Jewish autonomy. The area (as the whole region) is depopulating and, and almost all Jews left the region (emigration) years ago, or dissolved by intermarriage.

    Region itself promotes a lot of Jewish events, Yiddish, etc, even though actual Jewish population is very small.

    So I searched his photos are from
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOnp7t7VX44


    There is a documentary (English translations are included) about the topic here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE3oKuq4Rt4


    Real problem there is economic decline.

  20. @Yevardian
    Do Bulgarian dogs celebrate Christmas too?

    Hey, that’s AaronB’s joke.

  21. @Mr. Hack
    You're right. It's not only Russia's ethnic minorities that cling to their ethnic attributes, but their large neighbor to the south, that undoubtedly exhibits more of the highly exalted A1n1 haplogroup than even ethnic Russians themselves. For the last 5 year or so, Ukrainians have exhibited greater and greater tendencies to resist being subsumed into the larger Russian world that Kholmogorov so glibly tries to promote. The recent achievement of the Tomos that provides the Ukrainian Orthodox church with a true sense of autonomy away from the Russian church is just the latest manifestation of this process. Basically, I think that Kholmogorov is as delusional as most Russian nationalists. As far as Russian minorities within Russia itself, I think that the recent developments in Tatarstan are quite telling:

    https://youtu.be/GYN9gUMEXaE

    The Ukrainian situation is as daft as the Scottish National Party that wants “independence” by moving from the UK into the EU. Last time I checked Ukraine is still white, and there is absolutely no way that the regime you latched on will tolerate any form of national identity that is for white people. Sure they will take advantage of useful idiot stuff like sending warships into Russian territory, but long term the Orthodox church will forced to converge to the typical SJW stuff, the culture will be forced to accept all the norms of America (gay marriage, mass immigration, anti white discrimination, no gender roles, rewriting the past).

    • Agree: Denis
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Unlikely. I think that it's more likely that Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US. And don't forget that these countries already are a part of the EU and NATO and Ukraine is not. I think it'll be a long time before we see a black president running the show in Ukraine or a gay
    Patriarch heading the UOC.
  22. OT

    By the time the glorious new Hungarian Panzerwaffe reaches the Japanese borders, we will only have to think about two of those islands. Or so it looks like.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-20/dying-father-s-dream-drives-abe-to-seek-peace-on-putin-s-terms

    • Replies: @neutral
    Read the article, are there really Russians out there that are still stupid enough to believe that any promise of better relations with Japan are to believed? Japan is a US puppet, and words of Japan should be dismissed as empty and powerless, giving up some islands for some promise, it defies all reason.
  23. @Daniel Chieh
    Merry Christmas all!

    Merry Christmas!

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    And from Ol' Blue Eyes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NczzSYC-s10
    , @for-the-record
    Merry Christmas!

    In honor of the Swedish-American contribution to Christmas:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4uW2PT-190
  24. @Thorfinnsson
    Merry Christmas!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1wHyMR_SCA

    And from Ol’ Blue Eyes:

  25. Happy Winter Solstice … the Solstice the major holiday of the season for some of us following the very ancient spiritual and pagan ways

    Also today, the 50th anniversary of the start of the alleged USA 9 ‘trips to the moon’ of 1968-72, which many of us consider the most brazen hoax ever conducted … that story already dropped from some European school history books … tho a beloved, believed fairy tale for many here on this site

    [MORE]

    The first ‘trip to the moon’ of December 1968 being the ‘Christmas fly-around’, prelude to the 6 later alleged ‘moon landings’, with no one ever ‘going back’ after 1972

    Stanley Kubrick apparently admitted on his deathbed in 1999, that he himself directed the hoax ‘moon landing films’ at the CIA movie studios at Laurel Canyon California, and that they were all a fraud

    Maybe now with all the better computer-generated video now possible, we will have new ‘trips to the moon’ upcoming … like the 1st one, here with ‘recovered lost audio’

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Ron Unz moon hoax article when??
    , @anonymous coward
    The Apollo 10 photos are legit. So certainly the USA sent robots and probes to the moon.

    The astronaut moonwalk videos and photos are fake, of course. Not even China is gonna risk a humiliating 'one small red splotch' instead of a 'one small step'.

    If any nation is going to seriously attempt to land people on the moon, they'll send dogs and apes first. This is how you'll know they're actually serious.
  26. @reiner Tor
    OT

    By the time the glorious new Hungarian Panzerwaffe reaches the Japanese borders, we will only have to think about two of those islands. Or so it looks like.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-20/dying-father-s-dream-drives-abe-to-seek-peace-on-putin-s-terms

    Read the article, are there really Russians out there that are still stupid enough to believe that any promise of better relations with Japan are to believed? Japan is a US puppet, and words of Japan should be dismissed as empty and powerless, giving up some islands for some promise, it defies all reason.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Unfortunately Anatoly has apparently no time to discuss actual events. Over the last two months, since the last Open Thread, he only had two posts about actual events (the one about the warship incident and the other about the arrested Chinese executive).
  27. @Brabantian
    Happy Winter Solstice ... the Solstice the major holiday of the season for some of us following the very ancient spiritual and pagan ways

    Also today, the 50th anniversary of the start of the alleged USA 9 'trips to the moon' of 1968-72, which many of us consider the most brazen hoax ever conducted ... that story already dropped from some European school history books ... tho a beloved, believed fairy tale for many here on this site



    The first 'trip to the moon' of December 1968 being the 'Christmas fly-around', prelude to the 6 later alleged 'moon landings', with no one ever 'going back' after 1972

    Stanley Kubrick apparently admitted on his deathbed in 1999, that he himself directed the hoax 'moon landing films' at the CIA movie studios at Laurel Canyon California, and that they were all a fraud

    Maybe now with all the better computer-generated video now possible, we will have new 'trips to the moon' upcoming ... like the 1st one, here with 'recovered lost audio'
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIkHLO93lCA

    Ron Unz moon hoax article when??

    • LOL: Hyperborean
    • Replies: @German_reader
    I think he should commission Brabantian to write an in-depth article about that "nuclear weapons are just a hoax" theory. That would be highly original content and could lead Unz review to new heights.
  28. @Brabantian
    Happy Winter Solstice ... the Solstice the major holiday of the season for some of us following the very ancient spiritual and pagan ways

    Also today, the 50th anniversary of the start of the alleged USA 9 'trips to the moon' of 1968-72, which many of us consider the most brazen hoax ever conducted ... that story already dropped from some European school history books ... tho a beloved, believed fairy tale for many here on this site



    The first 'trip to the moon' of December 1968 being the 'Christmas fly-around', prelude to the 6 later alleged 'moon landings', with no one ever 'going back' after 1972

    Stanley Kubrick apparently admitted on his deathbed in 1999, that he himself directed the hoax 'moon landing films' at the CIA movie studios at Laurel Canyon California, and that they were all a fraud

    Maybe now with all the better computer-generated video now possible, we will have new 'trips to the moon' upcoming ... like the 1st one, here with 'recovered lost audio'
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIkHLO93lCA

    The Apollo 10 photos are legit. So certainly the USA sent robots and probes to the moon.

    The astronaut moonwalk videos and photos are fake, of course. Not even China is gonna risk a humiliating ‘one small red splotch’ instead of a ‘one small step’.

    If any nation is going to seriously attempt to land people on the moon, they’ll send dogs and apes first. This is how you’ll know they’re actually serious.

  29. @Hyperborean
    Although this talk of haplogroups is popular in some quarters of the internet, I find it a peculiar point to make beyond anthropological research.

    It seems strange to me to use haplogroups in particular, since they don’t say that much about overall genetic similarity

  30. OT

    An analysis of Turkish MBT losses in Syria two years ago. Apparently the Turks employed their tanks in a horrible manner. Our Hungarian Panzer won’t have that issue! (Unless our glorious leaders forget to provide sufficient funds for training our forces. It’s never happened before, except basically always, so no reason to think that our short and easy campaign to conquer Russia will face any obstacles!)

    https://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com/2016/12/leopard-2-in-syria.html

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    It's kind of funny to think that a century ago Hungary was technically a great power thanks to dualism.

    How do modern Hungarians view the Hapsburg period?
  31. @Daniel Chieh
    Merry Christmas all!

    Merry Christmas!

  32. @reiner Tor
    OT

    An analysis of Turkish MBT losses in Syria two years ago. Apparently the Turks employed their tanks in a horrible manner. Our Hungarian Panzer won’t have that issue! (Unless our glorious leaders forget to provide sufficient funds for training our forces. It’s never happened before, except basically always, so no reason to think that our short and easy campaign to conquer Russia will face any obstacles!)

    https://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com/2016/12/leopard-2-in-syria.html

    It’s kind of funny to think that a century ago Hungary was technically a great power thanks to dualism.

    How do modern Hungarians view the Hapsburg period?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Mixed. Obviously it didn’t work out well because we couldn’t keep a third of the ethnically Hungarian areas, while only the Székely land (in the middle of a sea of Romanians) was impossible. Basically if we managed to push out the border by 50 kilometers (not in all directions), that had reduced the number of ethnic Hungarians subjected to foreign rule by some 70%, while adding just a minimal number of hostile minorities.

    Anyway, a lot of people view the Habsburg period fondly with a huge doze of nostalgia. But it’s probably no accident that most of our national heroes from the era fought against them.
  33. @Thorfinnsson
    It's kind of funny to think that a century ago Hungary was technically a great power thanks to dualism.

    How do modern Hungarians view the Hapsburg period?

    Mixed. Obviously it didn’t work out well because we couldn’t keep a third of the ethnically Hungarian areas, while only the Székely land (in the middle of a sea of Romanians) was impossible. Basically if we managed to push out the border by 50 kilometers (not in all directions), that had reduced the number of ethnic Hungarians subjected to foreign rule by some 70%, while adding just a minimal number of hostile minorities.

    Anyway, a lot of people view the Habsburg period fondly with a huge doze of nostalgia. But it’s probably no accident that most of our national heroes from the era fought against them.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Thank you.

    How do Hungarians feel about Franz Josef?
  34. @Thorfinnsson
    Ron Unz moon hoax article when??

    I think he should commission Brabantian to write an in-depth article about that “nuclear weapons are just a hoax” theory. That would be highly original content and could lead Unz review to new heights.

  35. @neutral
    Read the article, are there really Russians out there that are still stupid enough to believe that any promise of better relations with Japan are to believed? Japan is a US puppet, and words of Japan should be dismissed as empty and powerless, giving up some islands for some promise, it defies all reason.

    Unfortunately Anatoly has apparently no time to discuss actual events. Over the last two months, since the last Open Thread, he only had two posts about actual events (the one about the warship incident and the other about the arrested Chinese executive).

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    On the subject of recent incidents:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/12/21/un-does-kosovo-and-azov-sea.html
  36. OT

    There’s the Mattis resignation now. Apparently because he wanted to keep tensions with Russia high, and disagreed to the Syria withdrawal. Oh, the Syria withdrawal is another issue in its own right.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Oh, the Syria withdrawal is another issue in its own right.
     
    What are the odds that a convenient shady incident will happen in the coming weeks?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Rumors are now swirling that Trump is planning to withdraw from Afghanistan as well.

    Despite all the disappointments and failures, if Trump actually ends our endless wars in the Middle East he will go down as our greatest President since at least Calvin Coolidge.
    , @g2k
    This is at odds with some quite credible reports from last April which said that Matis, in opposition to Trump, was responsible for the Syria strike being largely symbolic and for coordinating with Russia about the targets.

    At present, the part of Syria the us is occupying is Kurdish, there's not much terrorist activity there, the troops just have to sit there which prevents turkey, or turkish proxies from moving in. If the US pulls out, the kurds are toast.
    , @Mikhail
    It's really absurd how US mass media at large uncritically spins Mattis as the adult in the room in the Trump administration.

    He was looking to get out:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/12/13/spinning-against-russia-and-reality.html

    Excerpt -


    The current US secretary of Defense James Mattis appears to be transferring his shortcomings to Russian president Vladimir Putin. Mattis rather ironically said that Putin is a "slow learner". This is pretty rich coming from Mattis, who not too long ago belittled Russia's Middle East presence. Russia is the only country that has held open talks with the governments of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Syria and the US. Going back a good several years, the neocon/neolib desire to see Syria's president leave office hasn't happened. The neocon regime change operations in Iraq and Libya are now understandably regarded by many as counterproductive.

    Especially ridiculous is Mattis' recent contention that the claim of Russian meddling in the 2018 US general election is a fact (without Mattis providing specifics), unlike the view that the Saudi head of state knew and approved the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. Along with Nauert and Mattis, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and National Security Adviser John Bolton, haven't exhibited the foreign policy stances that Trump campaigned on.
     

    , @Hyperborean
    The Washington Post defends 'Faux News'. On the important issues they are all the same.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/21/he-just-refounded-isis-fox-news-bucks-trump-again-trump-is-listening-again/
  37. @reiner Tor
    OT

    There’s the Mattis resignation now. Apparently because he wanted to keep tensions with Russia high, and disagreed to the Syria withdrawal. Oh, the Syria withdrawal is another issue in its own right.

    Oh, the Syria withdrawal is another issue in its own right.

    What are the odds that a convenient shady incident will happen in the coming weeks?

  38. @reiner Tor
    Mixed. Obviously it didn’t work out well because we couldn’t keep a third of the ethnically Hungarian areas, while only the Székely land (in the middle of a sea of Romanians) was impossible. Basically if we managed to push out the border by 50 kilometers (not in all directions), that had reduced the number of ethnic Hungarians subjected to foreign rule by some 70%, while adding just a minimal number of hostile minorities.

    Anyway, a lot of people view the Habsburg period fondly with a huge doze of nostalgia. But it’s probably no accident that most of our national heroes from the era fought against them.

    Thank you.

    How do Hungarians feel about Franz Josef?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Mostly positive, at least 1867-1913.

    The main issue is his early period. In 1848 he assumed the Austrian throne after the abdication of his predecessor. He also unconstitutionally assumed the Hungarian throne and then unconstitutionally declared the so called April Laws already sanctioned by his predecessor to be null and void. Then with Russian help he basically re-conquered Hungary (which was at this point de facto independent and militarily under the control of the “rebel” government (whose constitutionality was also unclear at that point, but probably way more constitutional than the uncrowned king), and had hundreds of people unlawfully executed (i.e. murdered), for which usually only his henchman Haynau is blamed in our national consciousness, even though the responsibility clearly lay with the king. However, it must be understood that he was very young (barely 18 at the time he was declared emperor), and many people made the point that the revolution was foolish in many of its aims anyway.

    After the Compromise of 1867 he is seen in a very positive light (though he was still pretty powerful by 21st century standards, and he did intervene frequently in Hungarian politics even later), but then there’s the issue of taking us into the disastrous world war. (It’s also relatively rarely mentioned.) Of course it was a foolishness not unique to him but to most of the European leaders.
  39. @reiner Tor
    OT

    There’s the Mattis resignation now. Apparently because he wanted to keep tensions with Russia high, and disagreed to the Syria withdrawal. Oh, the Syria withdrawal is another issue in its own right.

    Rumors are now swirling that Trump is planning to withdraw from Afghanistan as well.

    Despite all the disappointments and failures, if Trump actually ends our endless wars in the Middle East he will go down as our greatest President since at least Calvin Coolidge.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    Hold on, isn't this the third president in a row that's "decisively and for good, this time for real" withdrawing from Afghanistan?
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Compare and contrast

    “The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. ... Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of [foreign] politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of [foreign] friendships or enmities.” – General George Washington

    “One core belief I have always held is that our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships.” – General Jim Mattis

    Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, Gen. Mattis
    , @reiner Tor
    I think the Afghan withdrawal is bad news, it’s saving the Empire from itself. As far as I can see, this is a totally useless and unnecessary war, even for the empire or the globalists. As a bonus, it never was a danger to trigger ww3. It’s just a waste of money and resources and military assets, which are part of the military and its budget anyway. So it’s not good for enemies of the empire to learn that those wasted resources are now going to be used for something else - unless that something else is even more useless (which is hard to see what could be). I don’t want them to have extra resources and military assets on their hands for some other adventures, which might actually be useful for them or dangerous to trigger ww3.
  40. @reiner Tor
    OT

    There’s the Mattis resignation now. Apparently because he wanted to keep tensions with Russia high, and disagreed to the Syria withdrawal. Oh, the Syria withdrawal is another issue in its own right.

    This is at odds with some quite credible reports from last April which said that Matis, in opposition to Trump, was responsible for the Syria strike being largely symbolic and for coordinating with Russia about the targets.

    At present, the part of Syria the us is occupying is Kurdish, there’s not much terrorist activity there, the troops just have to sit there which prevents turkey, or turkish proxies from moving in. If the US pulls out, the kurds are toast.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    At present, the part of Syria the us is occupying is Kurdish, there’s not much terrorist activity there, the troops just have to sit there which prevents turkey, or turkish proxies from moving in. If the US pulls out, the kurds are toast.
     
    The Syrian Kurds could go to Russia and the Syrian government for an agreement that will protect the Syrian Kurds, along with Syrian Kurdish recognition of being under Syrian government control.

    In turn, the Russians and Syrian government can attempt to reach an understanding with Turkey that Ankara's security will be respected.

    I sense that the EuroAtlantic big power chauvinists will not be too happy with that outcome. In any event, the Syrian Kurdish territory in question isn't Turkey's.
  41. @Thorfinnsson
    Thank you.

    How do Hungarians feel about Franz Josef?

    Mostly positive, at least 1867-1913.

    The main issue is his early period. In 1848 he assumed the Austrian throne after the abdication of his predecessor. He also unconstitutionally assumed the Hungarian throne and then unconstitutionally declared the so called April Laws already sanctioned by his predecessor to be null and void. Then with Russian help he basically re-conquered Hungary (which was at this point de facto independent and militarily under the control of the “rebel” government (whose constitutionality was also unclear at that point, but probably way more constitutional than the uncrowned king), and had hundreds of people unlawfully executed (i.e. murdered), for which usually only his henchman Haynau is blamed in our national consciousness, even though the responsibility clearly lay with the king. However, it must be understood that he was very young (barely 18 at the time he was declared emperor), and many people made the point that the revolution was foolish in many of its aims anyway.

    After the Compromise of 1867 he is seen in a very positive light (though he was still pretty powerful by 21st century standards, and he did intervene frequently in Hungarian politics even later), but then there’s the issue of taking us into the disastrous world war. (It’s also relatively rarely mentioned.) Of course it was a foolishness not unique to him but to most of the European leaders.

    • Replies: @Meneldil
    What the hell was the Austro-Hungarian government and the Habsburg monarchy thinking when they declared war on Serbia anyway ? How could annexing Serbia be worth a war against Russia and France even if Germany would be on your side ? The empire seemed already close to collapse due to ethnic tensions, I don't see how absorbing more belligerent Serbians into it would have helped in anyway, what a tragedy for Europe that stupid war was.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Most of my friends love the Hapsburgs. I, on the other hand, have always thought that the way the Austrian government handled 1914 makes them deeply responsible for the calamity that unfolded and led to the destruction of much of civilized life.

    This is the way I view things:

    Germany, Russia, England: Stupid, but not malicious. Regarding England, I find Niall Ferguson's criticism of the British alliance with France to be very cogent. They could have afforded to wait before wading onto the continent.

    France: Malicious; they had wanted war for generations in order to avenge 1871

    Austria: Malicious and stupid

    Serbia (government): Unable to control self, but open to compromise with Austria, even when Austria's demands were a threat to sovereignty

    Italy: Totally selfish, but also totally realistic - an alliance with Britain made far more sense for them than one with Austria

  42. What is important for me is precisely the Russian ethnos as an anthropological…. reality

    I wonder what that phrase means? Russians are divided into two very different genetic clusters.

  43. @neutral
    The Ukrainian situation is as daft as the Scottish National Party that wants "independence" by moving from the UK into the EU. Last time I checked Ukraine is still white, and there is absolutely no way that the regime you latched on will tolerate any form of national identity that is for white people. Sure they will take advantage of useful idiot stuff like sending warships into Russian territory, but long term the Orthodox church will forced to converge to the typical SJW stuff, the culture will be forced to accept all the norms of America (gay marriage, mass immigration, anti white discrimination, no gender roles, rewriting the past).

    Unlikely. I think that it’s more likely that Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US. And don’t forget that these countries already are a part of the EU and NATO and Ukraine is not. I think it’ll be a long time before we see a black president running the show in Ukraine or a gay
    Patriarch heading the UOC.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    What, so you want the Ukraine to be filled with belligerent American missile systems too? Not that endemic political corruption isn't enough for you.

    The Bible says an evil tree cannot produce good fruit. Time will tell if Poland will succeed in getting true fruit while living off the tree of modern Americanism. But history indicates that Poland usually fails in, and suffers from, its attempt to side with the non-Slavic and "post-Christian" West.

    On the other hand, I live near an American missile manufacturing facility. This facility profits from America's fake antagonism with Russia, which useful idiots like Poroshenko and Saakashvili help promote. So I suppose I should thank you for "supporting my local economy."

    , @Denis

    Unlikely. I think that it’s more likely that Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US.
     
    Hey buddy, everyone in Western Europe thought they could eat their cake and have it too, and boy were they wrong. For the countries you mentioned, it's only a matter of time.
    , @Beckow

    ...Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US.
     
    What is the chance of that kind of Ukraine being allowed to join EU? Brussels would almost certainly list all kinds of preconditions: open borders to migrants, rainbow freedoms, suppression of national identity, etc...

    It comes down to how much are we willing to sell for. Brussels is already trying to suppress Polish-Hungarian-Visegrad resistance, and they will use money to get their way.

    The idea that V4 can change EU for the better (as we see it) is naive: we are few, we don't have the same resources (capital), and they are quite fanatical about what they want, they won't give in.

    Ukraine is actually kind of lucky that there is little chance of it being allowed in EU, otherwise the insane blackmail by Brussels would have already started.

  44. @melanf

    I think it’s more about Russia’s existing ethnic minorities. Kholmogorov basically wants them to disappear by Russification.
     
    This process (assimilation) goes regardless of anyone's desires (with a few exceptions). While the policy of the state on the contrary is aimed at maintaining the existence of minorities. This leads to anecdotal situations - in Russia there is a Jewish autonomy in which there are no Jews. And since (according to state policy) Jewish holidays should be celebrated in the Jewish autonomy, Russians disguised as Jews perform on these holidays.

    https://b.radikal.ru/b04/1812/6b/4b282a050b0d.jpg

    http://xn--80ajpl7a.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/11-5.jpg

    https://c.radikal.ru/c13/1812/e5/c692aaaa1706.jpg

    Kholmogorov has zero influence in Russia, why smart Karlin spends time translating these articles is a mystery to me.

    Kholmogorov has zero influence in Russia, why smart Karlin spends time translating these articles is a mystery to me.

    The answer to this question is really quite simple – this is the kind of nonsense that Karlin believes in!
    I’ve been following his site now for several years and he makes no bones about being a hardcore Russian nationalist. He may not run around with a shaved head gesticulating arm gestures when he expresses these beliefs, but they’re definitely there for all to see. I actually appreciate reading this kind of stuff, for it allows me a corridor into the minds of these kinds of fanatics.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter

    I’ve been following his site now for several years and he makes no bones about being a hardcore Russian nationalist.
     
    Give me more nationalists and less of those disgusting and fanatical globalists, please.
  45. @reiner Tor
    Mostly positive, at least 1867-1913.

    The main issue is his early period. In 1848 he assumed the Austrian throne after the abdication of his predecessor. He also unconstitutionally assumed the Hungarian throne and then unconstitutionally declared the so called April Laws already sanctioned by his predecessor to be null and void. Then with Russian help he basically re-conquered Hungary (which was at this point de facto independent and militarily under the control of the “rebel” government (whose constitutionality was also unclear at that point, but probably way more constitutional than the uncrowned king), and had hundreds of people unlawfully executed (i.e. murdered), for which usually only his henchman Haynau is blamed in our national consciousness, even though the responsibility clearly lay with the king. However, it must be understood that he was very young (barely 18 at the time he was declared emperor), and many people made the point that the revolution was foolish in many of its aims anyway.

    After the Compromise of 1867 he is seen in a very positive light (though he was still pretty powerful by 21st century standards, and he did intervene frequently in Hungarian politics even later), but then there’s the issue of taking us into the disastrous world war. (It’s also relatively rarely mentioned.) Of course it was a foolishness not unique to him but to most of the European leaders.

    What the hell was the Austro-Hungarian government and the Habsburg monarchy thinking when they declared war on Serbia anyway ? How could annexing Serbia be worth a war against Russia and France even if Germany would be on your side ? The empire seemed already close to collapse due to ethnic tensions, I don’t see how absorbing more belligerent Serbians into it would have helped in anyway, what a tragedy for Europe that stupid war was.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    annexing Serbia
     
    Before consenting to the declaration of war (which he alone opposed at the crown council in July 1914, even if his opposition was not very principled), the Hungarian prime minister specifically demanded that no annexations are going to take place. Only minor modifications of the border (to build fortifications to avoid future wars, and maybe to provide lines of communication to Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire) were to happen.

    Already during the annexation of Bosnia the common sentiment among the Hungarian ruling classes was: "Who needs 2 million more Slavs?"

  46. @Meneldil
    What the hell was the Austro-Hungarian government and the Habsburg monarchy thinking when they declared war on Serbia anyway ? How could annexing Serbia be worth a war against Russia and France even if Germany would be on your side ? The empire seemed already close to collapse due to ethnic tensions, I don't see how absorbing more belligerent Serbians into it would have helped in anyway, what a tragedy for Europe that stupid war was.

    annexing Serbia

    Before consenting to the declaration of war (which he alone opposed at the crown council in July 1914, even if his opposition was not very principled), the Hungarian prime minister specifically demanded that no annexations are going to take place. Only minor modifications of the border (to build fortifications to avoid future wars, and maybe to provide lines of communication to Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire) were to happen.

    Already during the annexation of Bosnia the common sentiment among the Hungarian ruling classes was: “Who needs 2 million more Slavs?”

    • Replies: @Meneldil
    But he still consented, we have the benefit of hindsight of course but the European leaders at the time should have at least seen that even if the war was short (which of course it wasn't) the loss of life wasn't worth it at all, and if I understand correctly Austria-Hungary sent the bulk of her forces facing Serbia instead of facing the Russians, instead relying on Germany to hold that front (but Germany wanted to finish France quickly first).
  47. @Yevardian
    Do Bulgarian dogs celebrate Christmas too?

    If you are going to repeat other people’s jokes at least pick someone funnier than utu.

  48. @Thorfinnsson
    Rumors are now swirling that Trump is planning to withdraw from Afghanistan as well.

    Despite all the disappointments and failures, if Trump actually ends our endless wars in the Middle East he will go down as our greatest President since at least Calvin Coolidge.

    Hold on, isn’t this the third president in a row that’s “decisively and for good, this time for real” withdrawing from Afghanistan?

  49. @reiner Tor

    annexing Serbia
     
    Before consenting to the declaration of war (which he alone opposed at the crown council in July 1914, even if his opposition was not very principled), the Hungarian prime minister specifically demanded that no annexations are going to take place. Only minor modifications of the border (to build fortifications to avoid future wars, and maybe to provide lines of communication to Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire) were to happen.

    Already during the annexation of Bosnia the common sentiment among the Hungarian ruling classes was: "Who needs 2 million more Slavs?"

    But he still consented, we have the benefit of hindsight of course but the European leaders at the time should have at least seen that even if the war was short (which of course it wasn’t) the loss of life wasn’t worth it at all, and if I understand correctly Austria-Hungary sent the bulk of her forces facing Serbia instead of facing the Russians, instead relying on Germany to hold that front (but Germany wanted to finish France quickly first).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Austria-Hungary sent the bulk of her forces facing Serbia instead of facing the Russians
     
    No, actually, they sent the bulk of their forces against the Russians, but it was still not enough. The Russians were the main reason it took so long to defeat Serbia. (Of course, the terrain was also advantageous for defense rather than offense, and the Serbs were really tough soldiers, while the Austrian-Hungarian common army was not very good due to the lack of nationalistic enthusiasm of the soldiers, but still, it would've been much faster, if it weren't for the Russians.)
  50. @Meneldil
    But he still consented, we have the benefit of hindsight of course but the European leaders at the time should have at least seen that even if the war was short (which of course it wasn't) the loss of life wasn't worth it at all, and if I understand correctly Austria-Hungary sent the bulk of her forces facing Serbia instead of facing the Russians, instead relying on Germany to hold that front (but Germany wanted to finish France quickly first).

    Austria-Hungary sent the bulk of her forces facing Serbia instead of facing the Russians

    No, actually, they sent the bulk of their forces against the Russians, but it was still not enough. The Russians were the main reason it took so long to defeat Serbia. (Of course, the terrain was also advantageous for defense rather than offense, and the Serbs were really tough soldiers, while the Austrian-Hungarian common army was not very good due to the lack of nationalistic enthusiasm of the soldiers, but still, it would’ve been much faster, if it weren’t for the Russians.)

  51. In the realm of the spirit, my foremost guide is Orthodox Christianity as propounded in the traditional teachings of the Orthodox Church

    How does he reconcile it with having four wives, and probably more girls he didn’t marry? “If you don’t sin you won’t repent, if you don’t repent you won’t be saved?”

  52. @neutral

    Russians disguised as Jews perform on these holidays
     
    Truly weird, normally it is jews that disguise themselves as Russian/German/French/American/etc. I can only make sense of this by thinking that they have to keep doing this otherwise the outside world will accuse them of being anti semitic by dropping a jewish holiday (or whatever that event is supposed to be).

    Well melanf is not explaining his example.

    There is place in the Far East of Russia which was for Jewish autonomy. The area (as the whole region) is depopulating and, and almost all Jews left the region (emigration) years ago, or dissolved by intermarriage.

    Region itself promotes a lot of Jewish events, Yiddish, etc, even though actual Jewish population is very small.

    So I searched his photos are from

    There is a documentary (English translations are included) about the topic here.

    Real problem there is economic decline.

  53. @Yevardian
    All I see is more endless Russian chauvinist butthurt about Ukrainian and Baltic existence. I'm quite fond of Russia, but I would not like to see my culture (such as it), Georgia's or even the motley collection of Ugric meme-ethnicities to be absorbed into one amorphous 'great Russian' mass.

    Fuck all these pseudo-intellectual ideologue fake patriots like Kholmogorov, Solzhenitsyn and Dugin. A single article by any mainstream commentator like Starikov or Zhirik has more content and humour than any of these sinecures could produce in their lifetime. All this is BS for professional agitators and useful idiots looking to undermine the country. How many Russian commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?

    commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?

    I never understood the reason to write rude comments to him. His blog is the reason anyone is here – and so he was responsible for all the hours of entertainment you had writing here. (Where would you be writing your opinions otherwise – YouTube comments?)

    • Replies: @songbird
    Youtube comments is awful, so many NPCs. And drones.

    I wish there was some filter for pozzed videos. Even people who normally refrain from being pozzed, tend to do so to commemorate Black History Month or some such. There seems to be a high degree of it in general, maybe because of the average political compass of people who make videos. It is like a reproduction of Hollywood, even when you get to things like history. They make Normans black, as I expect the BBC does.
  54. @Mr. Hack
    You're right. It's not only Russia's ethnic minorities that cling to their ethnic attributes, but their large neighbor to the south, that undoubtedly exhibits more of the highly exalted A1n1 haplogroup than even ethnic Russians themselves. For the last 5 year or so, Ukrainians have exhibited greater and greater tendencies to resist being subsumed into the larger Russian world that Kholmogorov so glibly tries to promote. The recent achievement of the Tomos that provides the Ukrainian Orthodox church with a true sense of autonomy away from the Russian church is just the latest manifestation of this process. Basically, I think that Kholmogorov is as delusional as most Russian nationalists. As far as Russian minorities within Russia itself, I think that the recent developments in Tatarstan are quite telling:

    https://youtu.be/GYN9gUMEXaE

    You people are seriously celebrating an “achievement” that is …

    1) Outside the historical precedent of Orthodoxy
    2) Clearly inspired by the CIA*

    * The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of the United States mysteriously announces that funds for a new church near the World Trade Center had “disappeared,” and then, suddenly, Bartholomew agrees to recognize a man widely recognized as a schismatic beforehand.

    I wish you well in your attempt to reconcile Ukrainian nationalism with the ideology of your CIA masters.

    God will judge those who go along with this.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Everybody has to serve somebody. I guess the Ukrainian people would rather serve the CIA masters than the KGB ones.
  55. @Mr. Hack
    Unlikely. I think that it's more likely that Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US. And don't forget that these countries already are a part of the EU and NATO and Ukraine is not. I think it'll be a long time before we see a black president running the show in Ukraine or a gay
    Patriarch heading the UOC.

    What, so you want the Ukraine to be filled with belligerent American missile systems too? Not that endemic political corruption isn’t enough for you.

    The Bible says an evil tree cannot produce good fruit. Time will tell if Poland will succeed in getting true fruit while living off the tree of modern Americanism. But history indicates that Poland usually fails in, and suffers from, its attempt to side with the non-Slavic and “post-Christian” West.

    On the other hand, I live near an American missile manufacturing facility. This facility profits from America’s fake antagonism with Russia, which useful idiots like Poroshenko and Saakashvili help promote. So I suppose I should thank you for “supporting my local economy.”

  56. @John Gruskos
    Preserving the Russian nation isn't merely a matter of cultivating a proud ethnocentric attitude on the part of the Russian people.

    No matter how proud Russians may be, or how appealing their culture may be, too many immigrants who are too different from the Russians in terms of race, language, religion and political history will be unassimilable - especially the extremely highly ethnocentric peoples of the Middle East.

    Not every people group in the world is a small Finnic tribe eager to be assimilated into Holy Rus.

    At one time, Americans were proud ethnonationalists - so much so, that we complacently allowed virtually unrestricted immigration, arrogantly assuming that our identity was so overwhelmingly appealing that it had a virtually unlimited ability to assimilate newcomers.

    By the time we Americans awakened from our hubristic daydream in 1924, it was too late. Huge unassimilable blocks of people were present in our midst with legal rights, and their #1 political and cultural goal was to utterly crush American ethnonationalism. Over the course of the past 100 years, they've largely succeeded.

    Immigration and imperialism are the two sure methods of committing national suicide. Both create a vast constituency within the body politic for civic nationalism and other poisonous ideologies.

    Would civic nationalism have developed in France if the French kings had been wise enough to limit their conquests at the linguistic boundary? There would have been no need for revolutionaries to concoct a "French" identity flexible enough to include Germans and Italians if the Bourbons hadn't annexed Alsace and Corsica.

    Likewise, the Latvian Bolshevik riflemen Karlin is always complaining about wouldn't have been part of the Russian body politic if the czars had limited their conquests to areas east of the current western borders of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine.

    You’re nuts if you think Americans were ever really “proud ethnonationalists.” Real ethnonationalism existed only on the fringes of this country’s thought in the 19th century.

  57. @Thorfinnsson
    Rumors are now swirling that Trump is planning to withdraw from Afghanistan as well.

    Despite all the disappointments and failures, if Trump actually ends our endless wars in the Middle East he will go down as our greatest President since at least Calvin Coolidge.

    Compare and contrast

    “The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. … Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of [foreign] politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of [foreign] friendships or enmities.” – General George Washington

    “One core belief I have always held is that our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships.” – General Jim Mattis

    Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out, Gen. Mattis

  58. @reiner Tor
    Mostly positive, at least 1867-1913.

    The main issue is his early period. In 1848 he assumed the Austrian throne after the abdication of his predecessor. He also unconstitutionally assumed the Hungarian throne and then unconstitutionally declared the so called April Laws already sanctioned by his predecessor to be null and void. Then with Russian help he basically re-conquered Hungary (which was at this point de facto independent and militarily under the control of the “rebel” government (whose constitutionality was also unclear at that point, but probably way more constitutional than the uncrowned king), and had hundreds of people unlawfully executed (i.e. murdered), for which usually only his henchman Haynau is blamed in our national consciousness, even though the responsibility clearly lay with the king. However, it must be understood that he was very young (barely 18 at the time he was declared emperor), and many people made the point that the revolution was foolish in many of its aims anyway.

    After the Compromise of 1867 he is seen in a very positive light (though he was still pretty powerful by 21st century standards, and he did intervene frequently in Hungarian politics even later), but then there’s the issue of taking us into the disastrous world war. (It’s also relatively rarely mentioned.) Of course it was a foolishness not unique to him but to most of the European leaders.

    Most of my friends love the Hapsburgs. I, on the other hand, have always thought that the way the Austrian government handled 1914 makes them deeply responsible for the calamity that unfolded and led to the destruction of much of civilized life.

    This is the way I view things:

    Germany, Russia, England: Stupid, but not malicious. Regarding England, I find Niall Ferguson’s criticism of the British alliance with France to be very cogent. They could have afforded to wait before wading onto the continent.

    France: Malicious; they had wanted war for generations in order to avenge 1871

    Austria: Malicious and stupid

    Serbia (government): Unable to control self, but open to compromise with Austria, even when Austria’s demands were a threat to sovereignty

    Italy: Totally selfish, but also totally realistic – an alliance with Britain made far more sense for them than one with Austria

    • Agree: Denis, Guillaume Tell
    • Replies: @AP

    Austria: Malicious and stupid

     

    You must think that the USA was horrible for going after bin Laden.

    Not malicious, but may have been stupid.

    Serbia (government): Unable to control self, but open to compromise with Austria, even when Austria’s demands were a threat to sovereignty
     
    Totally evil. Responsible for the Austrian war against it by sending and arming terrorists across the Austrian border and murdering the crown prince and his wife in cold blood. The murdered crown prince was a pro-Slavic and this was inconvenient for Serbia.

    Generally agree about the others.
  59. @Dmitry

    commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?
     
    I never understood the reason to write rude comments to him. His blog is the reason anyone is here - and so he was responsible for all the hours of entertainment you had writing here. (Where would you be writing your opinions otherwise - YouTube comments?)

    Youtube comments is awful, so many NPCs. And drones.

    I wish there was some filter for pozzed videos. Even people who normally refrain from being pozzed, tend to do so to commemorate Black History Month or some such. There seems to be a high degree of it in general, maybe because of the average political compass of people who make videos. It is like a reproduction of Hollywood, even when you get to things like history. They make Normans black, as I expect the BBC does.

  60. @Mr. Hack
    Unlikely. I think that it's more likely that Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US. And don't forget that these countries already are a part of the EU and NATO and Ukraine is not. I think it'll be a long time before we see a black president running the show in Ukraine or a gay
    Patriarch heading the UOC.

    Unlikely. I think that it’s more likely that Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US.

    Hey buddy, everyone in Western Europe thought they could eat their cake and have it too, and boy were they wrong. For the countries you mentioned, it’s only a matter of time.

  61. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    You people are seriously celebrating an "achievement" that is ...

    1) Outside the historical precedent of Orthodoxy
    2) Clearly inspired by the CIA*

    * The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of the United States mysteriously announces that funds for a new church near the World Trade Center had "disappeared," and then, suddenly, Bartholomew agrees to recognize a man widely recognized as a schismatic beforehand.

    I wish you well in your attempt to reconcile Ukrainian nationalism with the ideology of your CIA masters.

    God will judge those who go along with this.

    Everybody has to serve somebody. I guess the Ukrainian people would rather serve the CIA masters than the KGB ones.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    'The KGB' hasn't existed for 30 years, you shameful fucking idiot.
  62. @Thorfinnsson
    Merry Christmas!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1wHyMR_SCA

    Merry Christmas!

    In honor of the Swedish-American contribution to Christmas:

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  63. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Most of my friends love the Hapsburgs. I, on the other hand, have always thought that the way the Austrian government handled 1914 makes them deeply responsible for the calamity that unfolded and led to the destruction of much of civilized life.

    This is the way I view things:

    Germany, Russia, England: Stupid, but not malicious. Regarding England, I find Niall Ferguson's criticism of the British alliance with France to be very cogent. They could have afforded to wait before wading onto the continent.

    France: Malicious; they had wanted war for generations in order to avenge 1871

    Austria: Malicious and stupid

    Serbia (government): Unable to control self, but open to compromise with Austria, even when Austria's demands were a threat to sovereignty

    Italy: Totally selfish, but also totally realistic - an alliance with Britain made far more sense for them than one with Austria

    Austria: Malicious and stupid

    You must think that the USA was horrible for going after bin Laden.

    Not malicious, but may have been stupid.

    Serbia (government): Unable to control self, but open to compromise with Austria, even when Austria’s demands were a threat to sovereignty

    Totally evil. Responsible for the Austrian war against it by sending and arming terrorists across the Austrian border and murdering the crown prince and his wife in cold blood. The murdered crown prince was a pro-Slavic and this was inconvenient for Serbia.

    Generally agree about the others.

  64. @reiner Tor
    Unfortunately Anatoly has apparently no time to discuss actual events. Over the last two months, since the last Open Thread, he only had two posts about actual events (the one about the warship incident and the other about the arrested Chinese executive).
  65. @reiner Tor
    OT

    There’s the Mattis resignation now. Apparently because he wanted to keep tensions with Russia high, and disagreed to the Syria withdrawal. Oh, the Syria withdrawal is another issue in its own right.

    It’s really absurd how US mass media at large uncritically spins Mattis as the adult in the room in the Trump administration.

    He was looking to get out:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/12/13/spinning-against-russia-and-reality.html

    Excerpt –

    The current US secretary of Defense James Mattis appears to be transferring his shortcomings to Russian president Vladimir Putin. Mattis rather ironically said that Putin is a “slow learner”. This is pretty rich coming from Mattis, who not too long ago belittled Russia’s Middle East presence. Russia is the only country that has held open talks with the governments of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Syria and the US. Going back a good several years, the neocon/neolib desire to see Syria’s president leave office hasn’t happened. The neocon regime change operations in Iraq and Libya are now understandably regarded by many as counterproductive.

    Especially ridiculous is Mattis’ recent contention that the claim of Russian meddling in the 2018 US general election is a fact (without Mattis providing specifics), unlike the view that the Saudi head of state knew and approved the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. Along with Nauert and Mattis, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and National Security Adviser John Bolton, haven’t exhibited the foreign policy stances that Trump campaigned on.

  66. @g2k
    This is at odds with some quite credible reports from last April which said that Matis, in opposition to Trump, was responsible for the Syria strike being largely symbolic and for coordinating with Russia about the targets.

    At present, the part of Syria the us is occupying is Kurdish, there's not much terrorist activity there, the troops just have to sit there which prevents turkey, or turkish proxies from moving in. If the US pulls out, the kurds are toast.

    At present, the part of Syria the us is occupying is Kurdish, there’s not much terrorist activity there, the troops just have to sit there which prevents turkey, or turkish proxies from moving in. If the US pulls out, the kurds are toast.

    The Syrian Kurds could go to Russia and the Syrian government for an agreement that will protect the Syrian Kurds, along with Syrian Kurdish recognition of being under Syrian government control.

    In turn, the Russians and Syrian government can attempt to reach an understanding with Turkey that Ankara’s security will be respected.

    I sense that the EuroAtlantic big power chauvinists will not be too happy with that outcome. In any event, the Syrian Kurdish territory in question isn’t Turkey’s.

  67. @Mr. Hack

    Kholmogorov has zero influence in Russia, why smart Karlin spends time translating these articles is a mystery to me.
     
    The answer to this question is really quite simple - this is the kind of nonsense that Karlin believes in!
    I've been following his site now for several years and he makes no bones about being a hardcore Russian nationalist. He may not run around with a shaved head gesticulating arm gestures when he expresses these beliefs, but they're definitely there for all to see. I actually appreciate reading this kind of stuff, for it allows me a corridor into the minds of these kinds of fanatics.

    I’ve been following his site now for several years and he makes no bones about being a hardcore Russian nationalist.

    Give me more nationalists and less of those disgusting and fanatical globalists, please.

  68. visiting this website, i begin to understand how uneducated i am 🙁

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    visiting this website, i begin to understand how uneducated i am
     
    Well, recognition is the start to self-realisation!
  69. @anon
    visiting this website, i begin to understand how uneducated i am :(

    visiting this website, i begin to understand how uneducated i am

    Well, recognition is the start to self-realisation!

  70. @Spisarevski

    Merry Christmas all!
     
    Hey, I wondered where you've been.
    Merry Christmas to you too!

    Thank you! My work has been keeping me very busy but hopefully I shall be spamming my comments soon again on Mr. Karlin’s blog.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Much needed. The commenters of the Chinese persuasion have left the comment board just when the trade war is getting serious, so their insights would be needed more than usual.
  71. @Mr. Hack
    Unlikely. I think that it's more likely that Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US. And don't forget that these countries already are a part of the EU and NATO and Ukraine is not. I think it'll be a long time before we see a black president running the show in Ukraine or a gay
    Patriarch heading the UOC.

    …Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US.

    What is the chance of that kind of Ukraine being allowed to join EU? Brussels would almost certainly list all kinds of preconditions: open borders to migrants, rainbow freedoms, suppression of national identity, etc…

    It comes down to how much are we willing to sell for. Brussels is already trying to suppress Polish-Hungarian-Visegrad resistance, and they will use money to get their way.

    The idea that V4 can change EU for the better (as we see it) is naive: we are few, we don’t have the same resources (capital), and they are quite fanatical about what they want, they won’t give in.

    Ukraine is actually kind of lucky that there is little chance of it being allowed in EU, otherwise the insane blackmail by Brussels would have already started.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Ukraine is a large country full of many untapped natural resources with a population that is still larger than any of it V-4 neighboring states. It, along with Romania (another viable candidate), would form a powerful club whose voice would have to be heard in Brussels.
  72. @Mr. Hack
    Everybody has to serve somebody. I guess the Ukrainian people would rather serve the CIA masters than the KGB ones.

    ‘The KGB’ hasn’t existed for 30 years, you shameful fucking idiot.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Baloney!

    NKVD - KGB - FSB - they're all cosmetic name changes but remain the same as far as their function is concerned. They've all served their Kremlin masters and will continue to do so into the future. It's well known that Putler was a KGB officer that worked in East Germany. Did he ever renounce the oath that he took to become a part of this nefarious organization? You're the one deluding yourself when you think that it all stopped 30 years ago.
  73. @Daniel Chieh
    Thank you! My work has been keeping me very busy but hopefully I shall be spamming my comments soon again on Mr. Karlin's blog.

    Much needed. The commenters of the Chinese persuasion have left the comment board just when the trade war is getting serious, so their insights would be needed more than usual.

  74. OT

    Recently there came up the issue of how expensive the Patriot is. Sweden has just signed to buy a version of the system for only $700 million. Certainly not something Hungary couldn’t afford. Though we seem to be buying air defense systems from Airbus. The SAMOC (Surface-to-Air Missile Operations Center) is only a first step, and probably points to buying some kind of European air defense systems (or one with some European involvement). (We already have the Mistral.)

    https://defence-blog.com/army/raytheon-contracted-for-patriot-system-for-sweden.html

    https://888.hu/article-orbanek-helyrepofozzak-a-magyar-legvedelmet-is

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Japan also seems to be paying less than $2 billion.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/lockheed-martin-receives-1-8b-contract-for-pac-3-air-and-missile-defense-system.html
  75. OT: How big and relevant is this issue in Russia? Could Wally be readmitted?

    Реабилитацию нацизма оправдали
    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3814489

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    «Евреи! Верните немцам деньги за мошенничество с Holocaust six millions jews!»
     
    What's with the gratuitous English? Too much time online.

    Could Wally be readmitted?
     
    Wally is a lunatic who only spams his revisionist site.
  76. @anonymous coward
    'The KGB' hasn't existed for 30 years, you shameful fucking idiot.

    Baloney!

    NKVD – KGB – FSB – they’re all cosmetic name changes but remain the same as far as their function is concerned. They’ve all served their Kremlin masters and will continue to do so into the future. It’s well known that Putler was a KGB officer that worked in East Germany. Did he ever renounce the oath that he took to become a part of this nefarious organization? You’re the one deluding yourself when you think that it all stopped 30 years ago.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Putin resigned from the KGB during the abortive Yanayev coup, before the coup collapsed. At least so he claims, which perhaps amounts to a public renunciation of the organization. Even before that he had joined the pro-Yeltsin team of the Saint Petersburg mayor. He might be bad, corrupt and authoritarian, but he doesn’t strike me as very pro-communism.
    , @anonymous coward

    They’ve all served their Kremlin masters
     
    Shock, horror! A Russian intelligence agency follows Russian laws and serves the Russian government! Must be a nefarious plot of those Russians to do Russian things!

    P.S. I'm sure you think the Ukrainian model is better: when a country's intelligence agency serves Jewish capital masters.
  77. @reiner Tor
    OT

    Recently there came up the issue of how expensive the Patriot is. Sweden has just signed to buy a version of the system for only $700 million. Certainly not something Hungary couldn’t afford. Though we seem to be buying air defense systems from Airbus. The SAMOC (Surface-to-Air Missile Operations Center) is only a first step, and probably points to buying some kind of European air defense systems (or one with some European involvement). (We already have the Mistral.)

    https://defence-blog.com/army/raytheon-contracted-for-patriot-system-for-sweden.html

    https://888.hu/article-orbanek-helyrepofozzak-a-magyar-legvedelmet-is

  78. @Mr. Hack
    Baloney!

    NKVD - KGB - FSB - they're all cosmetic name changes but remain the same as far as their function is concerned. They've all served their Kremlin masters and will continue to do so into the future. It's well known that Putler was a KGB officer that worked in East Germany. Did he ever renounce the oath that he took to become a part of this nefarious organization? You're the one deluding yourself when you think that it all stopped 30 years ago.

    Putin resigned from the KGB during the abortive Yanayev coup, before the coup collapsed. At least so he claims, which perhaps amounts to a public renunciation of the organization. Even before that he had joined the pro-Yeltsin team of the Saint Petersburg mayor. He might be bad, corrupt and authoritarian, but he doesn’t strike me as very pro-communism.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Putin is a very sly operator. He's figured out that communism would be good for everybody but himself. Although it's not really known how much he's socked away for himself, it's probably a very large amount - he doesn't seem to be the type that would allow his underling oligarchs to have more than he does? Or do you buy all of the official BS that his primary source of funds comes from his paltry salary?...
  79. @Beckow

    ...Ukrainian society will evolve much closer to the models that have appeared in other East European countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania than to the one in the US.
     
    What is the chance of that kind of Ukraine being allowed to join EU? Brussels would almost certainly list all kinds of preconditions: open borders to migrants, rainbow freedoms, suppression of national identity, etc...

    It comes down to how much are we willing to sell for. Brussels is already trying to suppress Polish-Hungarian-Visegrad resistance, and they will use money to get their way.

    The idea that V4 can change EU for the better (as we see it) is naive: we are few, we don't have the same resources (capital), and they are quite fanatical about what they want, they won't give in.

    Ukraine is actually kind of lucky that there is little chance of it being allowed in EU, otherwise the insane blackmail by Brussels would have already started.

    Ukraine is a large country full of many untapped natural resources with a population that is still larger than any of it V-4 neighboring states. It, along with Romania (another viable candidate), would form a powerful club whose voice would have to be heard in Brussels.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...whose voice would have to be heard in Brussels.
     
    (Romania has been in EU for 10 years, it is not a candidate.) Ukraine in EU would have a 7% share of population and less than 2% share of EU's GNP. During the 'admission process' to EU a country has no power and can be asked to do almost anything. The idea that Ukraine would not be blackmailed by Brussels is very naive. It would be: migrants, gays and globalism, and if Kiev wouldn't deliver the admission process would be put on hold.

    This is a no-win situation unless EU itself changes, and that has to start in Germany-France-Italy (the big ones). V4 is weak.

    Russia is a large country full of many untapped natural resources with a population that is much larger than any of it V-4 neighboring states. If you don't understand that will eventually matter to EU businesses, you don't understand much...Russia's resources and consumer market dwarf V4+Ukraine (+Romania)...
  80. @utu
    OT: How big and relevant is this issue in Russia? Could Wally be readmitted?

    Реабилитацию нацизма оправдали
    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3814489

    «Евреи! Верните немцам деньги за мошенничество с Holocaust six millions jews!»

    What’s with the gratuitous English? Too much time online.

    Could Wally be readmitted?

    Wally is a lunatic who only spams his revisionist site.

    • Replies: @utu
    This was my crown argument when dealing with Wally that he was actually to compromise and destroy the reputation of true revisionist. I am all for revisionism but I do not want to be associated with idiots.

    When dealing with Martyanov I was insinuating that he actually worked for American MIC trying to create the missile gap panic so the MIC would get more money. But Martyanov wrote well and was very articulate and I am sure that some of his posts were reality based.

    Everybody has a limited range. Some more than others. Some here are very mono topical and are so predictable that easily coupe replaced by relatively simple bot. Personally I am getting tired of Ukraine-Russia banter.

    But anyway I was curious whether there was indeed a change in Russia's policy towards the Holocaust denial.
  81. @reiner Tor
    Putin resigned from the KGB during the abortive Yanayev coup, before the coup collapsed. At least so he claims, which perhaps amounts to a public renunciation of the organization. Even before that he had joined the pro-Yeltsin team of the Saint Petersburg mayor. He might be bad, corrupt and authoritarian, but he doesn’t strike me as very pro-communism.

    Putin is a very sly operator. He’s figured out that communism would be good for everybody but himself. Although it’s not really known how much he’s socked away for himself, it’s probably a very large amount – he doesn’t seem to be the type that would allow his underling oligarchs to have more than he does? Or do you buy all of the official BS that his primary source of funds comes from his paltry salary?…

    • Replies: @Epigon
    And what for and why would he need the money?

    To buy himself a villa? He already lives and stays in best real estate in Russia and abroad.

    To buy himself a hypercar? Riiiight.

    To indulge in hedonistic pleasures? Compromise himself? Does he have the time for such activities?

    To leave it to his heirs?

    To have a grand burial akin to kings of old that would take treasures to the grave with them?

    People theoretizing about money and corruption of world leaders fail to understand that Power with capital P is infinitely better than money - he probably wouldn’t even need any income - he has Power. Over people.
    Money is a proxy. Power is direct.

    Just ask the (((Oligarchs))) how far did their money take them once they collided with Power.

  82. Ukraine is a large country full of many untapped natural resources with a population that is still larger than any of it V-4 neighboring states.

    Similar population level to Poland. And just like your neighbours to the west, foreign companies would buy up everything.

    Romania (another viable candidate)

    What are you talking about? Romania has been a full member of the EU for years.

    It, along with Romania (another viable candidate), would form a powerful club whose voice would have to be heard in Brussels.

    ‘Would have to be heard’

    Just like how Western Europe listens to Poland?

    Well, maybe your faustian pact with America will be useful.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    And not to forget that EU entry comes with lots of preconditions and that Bruxelles is no longer interested in pouring money into the East.
    , @Mr. Hack

    What are you talking about? Romania has been a full member of the EU for years.
     
    I was thinking (and writing) about the V-4.

    Just like how Western Europe listens to Poland?
     
    An expanded and more powerful V-4 group would carry more weight within the EU. Poland (and Hungary too) seems to be doing just fine within the EU, and always tilts to its own song. Its military alliances with the US and with NATO are just one example of this independent streak.

    Well, maybe your faustian pact with America will be useful.
     
    No grand bargains with any devil need to be made. The US is still the best thing going on this planet according to Guillame Durocher. You can read about his glowing report card for the US right here, at this website: https://www.unz.com/gdurocher/the-mystery-of-american-power/
  83. @Hyperborean

    Ukraine is a large country full of many untapped natural resources with a population that is still larger than any of it V-4 neighboring states.
     
    Similar population level to Poland. And just like your neighbours to the west, foreign companies would buy up everything.

    Romania (another viable candidate)
     
    What are you talking about? Romania has been a full member of the EU for years.

    It, along with Romania (another viable candidate), would form a powerful club whose voice would have to be heard in Brussels.
     
    'Would have to be heard'

    Just like how Western Europe listens to Poland?

    Well, maybe your faustian pact with America will be useful.

    And not to forget that EU entry comes with lots of preconditions and that Bruxelles is no longer interested in pouring money into the East.

  84. It’s a reasonable stance. At the end of days, though, what matters more and makes all else irrelevant, is whether or not there was fidelity to Christ.

  85. @Hyperborean

    Ukraine is a large country full of many untapped natural resources with a population that is still larger than any of it V-4 neighboring states.
     
    Similar population level to Poland. And just like your neighbours to the west, foreign companies would buy up everything.

    Romania (another viable candidate)
     
    What are you talking about? Romania has been a full member of the EU for years.

    It, along with Romania (another viable candidate), would form a powerful club whose voice would have to be heard in Brussels.
     
    'Would have to be heard'

    Just like how Western Europe listens to Poland?

    Well, maybe your faustian pact with America will be useful.

    What are you talking about? Romania has been a full member of the EU for years.

    I was thinking (and writing) about the V-4.

    Just like how Western Europe listens to Poland?

    An expanded and more powerful V-4 group would carry more weight within the EU. Poland (and Hungary too) seems to be doing just fine within the EU, and always tilts to its own song. Its military alliances with the US and with NATO are just one example of this independent streak.

    Well, maybe your faustian pact with America will be useful.

    No grand bargains with any devil need to be made. The US is still the best thing going on this planet according to Guillame Durocher. You can read about his glowing report card for the US right here, at this website: https://www.unz.com/gdurocher/the-mystery-of-american-power/

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    An expanded and more powerful V-4 group would carry more weight within the EU.
     
    You're ignoring that EU member states have a veto on accession. This is why masochistic Serbia has been having such a hard time.

    Poland (and Hungary too) seems to be doing just fine within the EU, and always tilts to its own song. Its military alliances with the US and with NATO are just one example of this independent streak.
     
    Oh? Just who was screeching about Nordstream and demanding that their voice would have to be heard?

    And their ally USA? Blames them for a genocide they didn't even commit to confiscate Polish property and give it ('return it') to foreign Jews. They are also busy promoting the poz in their country.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/trump-signs-holocaust-property-law-that-has-angered-poland

    https://dailystormer.name/bogdanoff-jewess-american-ambassador-stages-anti-polish-provocation/

    No grand bargains with any devil need to be made. The US is still the best thing going on this planet according to Guillame Durocher.
     
    I disagree with several parts of Durocher's essay, but it is clear that he recognises the cultural degeneracy of America, which is the salient point since America demands their vassals join them in their degeneracy.
  86. @Mr. Hack
    Putin is a very sly operator. He's figured out that communism would be good for everybody but himself. Although it's not really known how much he's socked away for himself, it's probably a very large amount - he doesn't seem to be the type that would allow his underling oligarchs to have more than he does? Or do you buy all of the official BS that his primary source of funds comes from his paltry salary?...

    And what for and why would he need the money?

    To buy himself a villa? He already lives and stays in best real estate in Russia and abroad.

    To buy himself a hypercar? Riiiight.

    To indulge in hedonistic pleasures? Compromise himself? Does he have the time for such activities?

    To leave it to his heirs?

    To have a grand burial akin to kings of old that would take treasures to the grave with them?

    People theoretizing about money and corruption of world leaders fail to understand that Power with capital P is infinitely better than money – he probably wouldn’t even need any income – he has Power. Over people.
    Money is a proxy. Power is direct.

    Just ask the (((Oligarchs))) how far did their money take them once they collided with Power.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    The oligarchs now need to share their money with Mr. Putler, after the collision. So, you believe that Putler is worth a million or two at best? In the world, money is power and power is money. They go together hand in hand.
  87. @reiner Tor
    OT

    There’s the Mattis resignation now. Apparently because he wanted to keep tensions with Russia high, and disagreed to the Syria withdrawal. Oh, the Syria withdrawal is another issue in its own right.

    The Washington Post defends ‘Faux News’. On the important issues they are all the same.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/21/he-just-refounded-isis-fox-news-bucks-trump-again-trump-is-listening-again/

  88. @Mr. Hack
    Ukraine is a large country full of many untapped natural resources with a population that is still larger than any of it V-4 neighboring states. It, along with Romania (another viable candidate), would form a powerful club whose voice would have to be heard in Brussels.

    …whose voice would have to be heard in Brussels.

    (Romania has been in EU for 10 years, it is not a candidate.) Ukraine in EU would have a 7% share of population and less than 2% share of EU’s GNP. During the ‘admission process‘ to EU a country has no power and can be asked to do almost anything. The idea that Ukraine would not be blackmailed by Brussels is very naive. It would be: migrants, gays and globalism, and if Kiev wouldn’t deliver the admission process would be put on hold.

    This is a no-win situation unless EU itself changes, and that has to start in Germany-France-Italy (the big ones). V4 is weak.

    Russia is a large country full of many untapped natural resources with a population that is much larger than any of it V-4 neighboring states. If you don’t understand that will eventually matter to EU businesses, you don’t understand much…Russia’s resources and consumer market dwarf V4+Ukraine (+Romania)…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Even still, not one single East European country has ever applied for membership into any Russian led economic union, military alliance, etc; but on the contrary have all applied for EU or NATO membership. I wonder why this is so, Mr. Smart guy? These countries must all be living under false pretenses and only somebody like yourself sees the bright light of the future? :-)
  89. @Beckow

    ...whose voice would have to be heard in Brussels.
     
    (Romania has been in EU for 10 years, it is not a candidate.) Ukraine in EU would have a 7% share of population and less than 2% share of EU's GNP. During the 'admission process' to EU a country has no power and can be asked to do almost anything. The idea that Ukraine would not be blackmailed by Brussels is very naive. It would be: migrants, gays and globalism, and if Kiev wouldn't deliver the admission process would be put on hold.

    This is a no-win situation unless EU itself changes, and that has to start in Germany-France-Italy (the big ones). V4 is weak.

    Russia is a large country full of many untapped natural resources with a population that is much larger than any of it V-4 neighboring states. If you don't understand that will eventually matter to EU businesses, you don't understand much...Russia's resources and consumer market dwarf V4+Ukraine (+Romania)...

    Even still, not one single East European country has ever applied for membership into any Russian led economic union, military alliance, etc; but on the contrary have all applied for EU or NATO membership. I wonder why this is so, Mr. Smart guy? These countries must all be living under false pretenses and only somebody like yourself sees the bright light of the future? 🙂

    • Replies: @Beckow
    You have a real comprehension problem, or are just a lazy reader. I described two realities: Ukraine's accession to EU will require fulfilling conditions that I listed (migrants, gays...+) - all V4 countries had to do the same thing during times that these issues were not as visible and enforced.

    Russia has resources and markets and is not going away any time soon. To trade with Russia doesn't require any 'economic union' or some sort of an alliance. It requires basic normalcy, and to understand one's self-interest and control silly ideological impulses.

    This is not either-or. EU has issues, but overall it is for now beneficial for V4. If Brussels will insist on repopulating our countries with African surplus population, or insist on some nutty multicultural-Islamic-globalist collage of progressivism, we can always re-evaluate. Russia has resources and markets, one should be able to do both: trade within EU and also with Russia. That requires rationality that your black-and-white shallow world doesn't seem to contain. Good luck with that, you are peeing into a hurricane...

    , @anonymous coward

    I wonder why this is so, Mr. Smart guy?
     
    Because Russia is not taking applications.
    , @Gerard2

    Even still, not one single East European country has ever applied for membership into any Russian led economic union, military alliance, etc; but on the contrary have all applied for EU or NATO membership. I wonder why this is so, Mr. Smart guy? These countries must all be living under false pretenses and only somebody like yourself sees the bright light of the future?
     
    errr....Belarus you dumb fucktard, those other eastern european countries also applied for membership of those those EU/NATO organisations before 2004, when not in dispute that the security and living standards were much better in all the European Union than in Russia you dumb fuck. As Ukraine was the fastest growing economy in Europe in 2004 , due entirely to the remergence of Russia...they then fuckedup ( well their corrupt American paid elites did) as the Orange Revolution was a farce that should never have happened as Yanukovich won that fairly you idiot.

    Tangible results under the Presidency of VVP didn't start to be felt until 2003-2004 you tramp
  90. @Epigon
    And what for and why would he need the money?

    To buy himself a villa? He already lives and stays in best real estate in Russia and abroad.

    To buy himself a hypercar? Riiiight.

    To indulge in hedonistic pleasures? Compromise himself? Does he have the time for such activities?

    To leave it to his heirs?

    To have a grand burial akin to kings of old that would take treasures to the grave with them?

    People theoretizing about money and corruption of world leaders fail to understand that Power with capital P is infinitely better than money - he probably wouldn’t even need any income - he has Power. Over people.
    Money is a proxy. Power is direct.

    Just ask the (((Oligarchs))) how far did their money take them once they collided with Power.

    The oligarchs now need to share their money with Mr. Putler, after the collision. So, you believe that Putler is worth a million or two at best? In the world, money is power and power is money. They go together hand in hand.

  91. @Hyperborean

    «Евреи! Верните немцам деньги за мошенничество с Holocaust six millions jews!»
     
    What's with the gratuitous English? Too much time online.

    Could Wally be readmitted?
     
    Wally is a lunatic who only spams his revisionist site.

    This was my crown argument when dealing with Wally that he was actually to compromise and destroy the reputation of true revisionist. I am all for revisionism but I do not want to be associated with idiots.

    When dealing with Martyanov I was insinuating that he actually worked for American MIC trying to create the missile gap panic so the MIC would get more money. But Martyanov wrote well and was very articulate and I am sure that some of his posts were reality based.

    Everybody has a limited range. Some more than others. Some here are very mono topical and are so predictable that easily coupe replaced by relatively simple bot. Personally I am getting tired of Ukraine-Russia banter.

    But anyway I was curious whether there was indeed a change in Russia’s policy towards the Holocaust denial.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    When dealing with Martyanov

    What happened to Martyanov?
  92. @utu
    This was my crown argument when dealing with Wally that he was actually to compromise and destroy the reputation of true revisionist. I am all for revisionism but I do not want to be associated with idiots.

    When dealing with Martyanov I was insinuating that he actually worked for American MIC trying to create the missile gap panic so the MIC would get more money. But Martyanov wrote well and was very articulate and I am sure that some of his posts were reality based.

    Everybody has a limited range. Some more than others. Some here are very mono topical and are so predictable that easily coupe replaced by relatively simple bot. Personally I am getting tired of Ukraine-Russia banter.

    But anyway I was curious whether there was indeed a change in Russia's policy towards the Holocaust denial.

    When dealing with Martyanov

    What happened to Martyanov?

    • Replies: @utu
    I do not know. He published a book. He had his own website somewhere. I do not remember the address/name.
    , @German_reader
    He's still occasionally writing comments on Unz review (also on Patrick Lang's blog).
    This is his own blog:
    http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/
    I think he just decided that AK's blog wasn't worth his time (his last interactions with AK were quite vitriolic after all).
  93. @Mr. Hack

    What are you talking about? Romania has been a full member of the EU for years.
     
    I was thinking (and writing) about the V-4.

    Just like how Western Europe listens to Poland?
     
    An expanded and more powerful V-4 group would carry more weight within the EU. Poland (and Hungary too) seems to be doing just fine within the EU, and always tilts to its own song. Its military alliances with the US and with NATO are just one example of this independent streak.

    Well, maybe your faustian pact with America will be useful.
     
    No grand bargains with any devil need to be made. The US is still the best thing going on this planet according to Guillame Durocher. You can read about his glowing report card for the US right here, at this website: https://www.unz.com/gdurocher/the-mystery-of-american-power/

    An expanded and more powerful V-4 group would carry more weight within the EU.

    You’re ignoring that EU member states have a veto on accession. This is why masochistic Serbia has been having such a hard time.

    Poland (and Hungary too) seems to be doing just fine within the EU, and always tilts to its own song. Its military alliances with the US and with NATO are just one example of this independent streak.

    Oh? Just who was screeching about Nordstream and demanding that their voice would have to be heard?

    And their ally USA? Blames them for a genocide they didn’t even commit to confiscate Polish property and give it (‘return it’) to foreign Jews. They are also busy promoting the poz in their country.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/trump-signs-holocaust-property-law-that-has-angered-poland

    https://dailystormer.name/bogdanoff-jewess-american-ambassador-stages-anti-polish-provocation/

    No grand bargains with any devil need to be made. The US is still the best thing going on this planet according to Guillame Durocher.

    I disagree with several parts of Durocher’s essay, but it is clear that he recognises the cultural degeneracy of America, which is the salient point since America demands their vassals join them in their degeneracy.

  94. @for-the-record
    When dealing with Martyanov

    What happened to Martyanov?

    I do not know. He published a book. He had his own website somewhere. I do not remember the address/name.

  95. @Mr. Hack
    Even still, not one single East European country has ever applied for membership into any Russian led economic union, military alliance, etc; but on the contrary have all applied for EU or NATO membership. I wonder why this is so, Mr. Smart guy? These countries must all be living under false pretenses and only somebody like yourself sees the bright light of the future? :-)

    You have a real comprehension problem, or are just a lazy reader. I described two realities: Ukraine’s accession to EU will require fulfilling conditions that I listed (migrants, gays…+) – all V4 countries had to do the same thing during times that these issues were not as visible and enforced.

    Russia has resources and markets and is not going away any time soon. To trade with Russia doesn’t require any ‘economic union‘ or some sort of an alliance. It requires basic normalcy, and to understand one’s self-interest and control silly ideological impulses.

    This is not either-or. EU has issues, but overall it is for now beneficial for V4. If Brussels will insist on repopulating our countries with African surplus population, or insist on some nutty multicultural-Islamic-globalist collage of progressivism, we can always re-evaluate. Russia has resources and markets, one should be able to do both: trade within EU and also with Russia. That requires rationality that your black-and-white shallow world doesn’t seem to contain. Good luck with that, you are peeing into a hurricane…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Does a member state in the V-4 first need to be a member state of the EU? I was treating the two as separate entities, yet you seem to lop them in together as one organic whole? Actually, I just looked up the answer and it appears that no, membership is not incumbent in either club for belonging to the other one too. Joing the V-4 could be a rite of passage for any member state to later join the EU, possibly a good first step for Ukraine, while it gets its act together (and it has over the last few years been making good strides).
  96. @for-the-record
    When dealing with Martyanov

    What happened to Martyanov?

    He’s still occasionally writing comments on Unz review (also on Patrick Lang’s blog).
    This is his own blog:
    http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/
    I think he just decided that AK’s blog wasn’t worth his time (his last interactions with AK were quite vitriolic after all).

  97. @Mr. Hack
    Baloney!

    NKVD - KGB - FSB - they're all cosmetic name changes but remain the same as far as their function is concerned. They've all served their Kremlin masters and will continue to do so into the future. It's well known that Putler was a KGB officer that worked in East Germany. Did he ever renounce the oath that he took to become a part of this nefarious organization? You're the one deluding yourself when you think that it all stopped 30 years ago.

    They’ve all served their Kremlin masters

    Shock, horror! A Russian intelligence agency follows Russian laws and serves the Russian government! Must be a nefarious plot of those Russians to do Russian things!

    P.S. I’m sure you think the Ukrainian model is better: when a country’s intelligence agency serves Jewish capital masters.

  98. @Mr. Hack
    Even still, not one single East European country has ever applied for membership into any Russian led economic union, military alliance, etc; but on the contrary have all applied for EU or NATO membership. I wonder why this is so, Mr. Smart guy? These countries must all be living under false pretenses and only somebody like yourself sees the bright light of the future? :-)

    I wonder why this is so, Mr. Smart guy?

    Because Russia is not taking applications.

  99. @Yevardian
    All I see is more endless Russian chauvinist butthurt about Ukrainian and Baltic existence. I'm quite fond of Russia, but I would not like to see my culture (such as it), Georgia's or even the motley collection of Ugric meme-ethnicities to be absorbed into one amorphous 'great Russian' mass.

    Fuck all these pseudo-intellectual ideologue fake patriots like Kholmogorov, Solzhenitsyn and Dugin. A single article by any mainstream commentator like Starikov or Zhirik has more content and humour than any of these sinecures could produce in their lifetime. All this is BS for professional agitators and useful idiots looking to undermine the country. How many Russian commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?

    How many Russian commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?

    Almost all of whom are emigres, not Russian, or both (such as yourself).

    Update. Thank you Mr. Hack for so eloquently and succinctly making my point.

    • Disagree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Hey Fearless Leader, I've never once told you to F-off. I appreciate your democratic spirit in letting everybody here spout off whatever brand of nonsense that floats their boat. Did you know that I recently got banned from the Mad Bohemians site (after only two comments!) for posting a whataboutism?? Now if anybody needs to F-off it's definitely him - what a paranoid looser! :-(
  100. OT: bizarre case from Germany

    A “journalist” working for Der Spiegel wrote a bizarre, fabricated hit piece on the rural town of Fergus Falls, Minnesota as some sort of indictment of Trump’s America.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/der-spiegels-first-class-faker/

    https://medium.com/@micheleanderson/der-spiegel-journalist-messed-with-the-wrong-small-town-d92f3e0e01a7

    • Replies: @German_reader
    That guy got lots of prizes for his pieces, e.g. he was CNN's "Journalist of the year" in 2014, and got the Deutsche Reporterpreis just a few weeks ago.
    He seems to have fabricated a lot of his pieces, all in the service of Germany's dominant narrative; e.g. he had an interview with the last surviving member of the anti-Nazi group Weiße Rose (many of whose members were executed in 1943), and according to him she of course warned against the AfD and made detailed references to the "Nazi" riots in Chemnitz in August (which didn't happen, but were a fake news invention by German msm). Turns out this is a total invention, and nothing of this sort was actually said in the interview.
    Also lots of truly bizarre stuff (e.g. he wrote a story about two Syrian orphans in Turkey who allegedly sometimes see Angela Merkel in their dreams at night).
    They're of course trying to spin it as an isolated case, but it's more proof that most of German journalism fully deserves the term Lügenpresse.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Also rather telling which of his fake news the Fake News (capitalized) decided not to highlight.

    https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1075990742701461504
    , @Hyperborean
    It's funny how the Minnesota lady still couldn't resist the barb about 'voting against their own interests' regarding her fellow residents.
    , @songbird
    It really says a lot about mainstream media - not just that it has a narrative, is lazy, and nearly worse than useless - but it speaks to the people who form the bulk of it. They have a political compass and people who have one that points in that general direction might not be very good at picking up obvious lies.

    And I don't know if there are structural incentives for doing so. Does anyone get a bonus for finding falsehoods? Will they run a series on all his lies? Or now devote the same space to someone with the opposite narrative? I'm guessing the answer to all of the above is no.
    , @Mr. Hack
    I know that you're still working on the 'irrational religious' stuff' (good for you), but didn't I recently tell you about how you might benefit immensely by taking up residence in Minnesota (which really isn't that different from Michigan)? I tried to entice you with descriptions of beautiful blonde Scandinavian hotties that want to settle down and start families. Minnesota is definitely the place for you. See what I mean (this kind of allure can be had in the small town of Scandia):

    https://connieevingson.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Connie-RightColumn.jpg

    What's there not to like? A snifter filled with your favorite Aquavit, pipe & slippers, and you've won the trifecta! Minnesota is the place for you, Thorffinsson:


    Fergus Falls, where “people pray for Donald Trump on Sundays,” confirmed what we all “know.” It was a tableau of “red-neck” America — a gun-toting, intolerant, anti-immigrant and irrationally religious nation.

     

  101. @Thorfinnsson
    OT: bizarre case from Germany

    A "journalist" working for Der Spiegel wrote a bizarre, fabricated hit piece on the rural town of Fergus Falls, Minnesota as some sort of indictment of Trump's America.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/der-spiegels-first-class-faker/

    https://medium.com/@micheleanderson/der-spiegel-journalist-messed-with-the-wrong-small-town-d92f3e0e01a7

    That guy got lots of prizes for his pieces, e.g. he was CNN’s “Journalist of the year” in 2014, and got the Deutsche Reporterpreis just a few weeks ago.
    He seems to have fabricated a lot of his pieces, all in the service of Germany’s dominant narrative; e.g. he had an interview with the last surviving member of the anti-Nazi group Weiße Rose (many of whose members were executed in 1943), and according to him she of course warned against the AfD and made detailed references to the “Nazi” riots in Chemnitz in August (which didn’t happen, but were a fake news invention by German msm). Turns out this is a total invention, and nothing of this sort was actually said in the interview.
    Also lots of truly bizarre stuff (e.g. he wrote a story about two Syrian orphans in Turkey who allegedly sometimes see Angela Merkel in their dreams at night).
    They’re of course trying to spin it as an isolated case, but it’s more proof that most of German journalism fully deserves the term Lügenpresse.

    • Replies: @songbird
    Merkel would be a nightmare for anyone. And if she were physically there to wake them, had flown in, there is not a boy, let alone hardened Islamic fighter or terrorist who wouldn't scream and reach for his bomb. You've got to steel yourself to seeing her face, and that takes wakefulness.
    , @utu
    "They’re of course trying to spin it as an isolated case" - I think it is the tip of the iceberg. A new normal.
    , @German_reader
    Apparently that Relotius' guy was uncovered because his last story was so extreme it aroused the suspicions of a colleague who then checked the sources.
    It's another bizarre anti-US hit piece, about a group of middle-aged US army veterans who have allegedly set up a kind of private militia along the Arizona-Mexico border to catch illegal immigrants (and supposedly tell the journalist things like "Once we caught a youth from El Salvador, and sent him back through the desert, without shoes and water"):
    http://www.spiegel.de/plus/buergerwehr-gegen-fluechtlinge-in-arizona-jaegers-grenze-a-00000000-0002-0001-0000-000160834460
    There's lots more of hilariously implausible stuff in this piece (also some strange English, like "battle for survive", or a sign reading "end of country" at the border).
    I suppose he got away so long with this kind of nonsense because SPIEGEL is read only by true believers nowadays.
  102. @Beckow
    You have a real comprehension problem, or are just a lazy reader. I described two realities: Ukraine's accession to EU will require fulfilling conditions that I listed (migrants, gays...+) - all V4 countries had to do the same thing during times that these issues were not as visible and enforced.

    Russia has resources and markets and is not going away any time soon. To trade with Russia doesn't require any 'economic union' or some sort of an alliance. It requires basic normalcy, and to understand one's self-interest and control silly ideological impulses.

    This is not either-or. EU has issues, but overall it is for now beneficial for V4. If Brussels will insist on repopulating our countries with African surplus population, or insist on some nutty multicultural-Islamic-globalist collage of progressivism, we can always re-evaluate. Russia has resources and markets, one should be able to do both: trade within EU and also with Russia. That requires rationality that your black-and-white shallow world doesn't seem to contain. Good luck with that, you are peeing into a hurricane...

    Does a member state in the V-4 first need to be a member state of the EU? I was treating the two as separate entities, yet you seem to lop them in together as one organic whole? Actually, I just looked up the answer and it appears that no, membership is not incumbent in either club for belonging to the other one too. Joing the V-4 could be a rite of passage for any member state to later join the EU, possibly a good first step for Ukraine, while it gets its act together (and it has over the last few years been making good strides).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    V4 was formed before these countries joined the EU.
    , @Beckow
    V4 is a political-cultural association of 4 Central-East countries. It comes with no trade or security policies - those are EU.

    Ukraine doesn't fit for the following reasons: it is not in Central Europe, it is substantially poorer, it is Orthodox, it is chaotic. In addition 2 or 3 of V4 countries have traditionally good relations with Russia, Poland is an exception. We want to trade with Russia and have normal relations. Ukraine seems to want a war or some endless hostility and yelling at each other - we are not interested.

    Kiev doesn't understand that its warlike posture toward Russia makes integrating Ukraine into EU or V4 (or Europe in general) more difficult. They have been acting like out-of-control clowns. People may not say it openly because of 'geopolitic' pressures, but the irresponsibility has been noted. Nobody wants a poor, desperate, loose cannon in their club. Britain is on its way out of EU, McCain is dead, Nuland is making cookies for her husband, who is it exactly that Kiev is trying to impress with its pointless militancy?
  103. @Thorfinnsson
    Rumors are now swirling that Trump is planning to withdraw from Afghanistan as well.

    Despite all the disappointments and failures, if Trump actually ends our endless wars in the Middle East he will go down as our greatest President since at least Calvin Coolidge.

    I think the Afghan withdrawal is bad news, it’s saving the Empire from itself. As far as I can see, this is a totally useless and unnecessary war, even for the empire or the globalists. As a bonus, it never was a danger to trigger ww3. It’s just a waste of money and resources and military assets, which are part of the military and its budget anyway. So it’s not good for enemies of the empire to learn that those wasted resources are now going to be used for something else – unless that something else is even more useless (which is hard to see what could be). I don’t want them to have extra resources and military assets on their hands for some other adventures, which might actually be useful for them or dangerous to trigger ww3.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    Don't be so cynical.
    The only thing that bothers me about Afghanistan is that we'll get even more asylum seekers from there in Europe when the Taliban are back in power. And of course it's sad that so many Americans and their allies (including a few dozen Germans) died for essentially nothing.
    But it was always a stupid project; if at all, it could have only succeeded with more radical measures (at least the Pashtuns should have been expelled from the areas of the country where they're only a minority).
    If Trump manages to end it, he'll at least have done something positive.
    , @Yevardian
    A major component of NATO's involvement in Afghanistan is it's connection with Iran's heroin epidemic that has reached plague proportions in the country since the 2010's. The country never previously suffered from serious violent crime, but this has been changing. Probably only Baron Kaldian has been there as well, but differences on the average Tehran street to a visitor in the past ten years are striking.
  104. @Mr. Hack
    Does a member state in the V-4 first need to be a member state of the EU? I was treating the two as separate entities, yet you seem to lop them in together as one organic whole? Actually, I just looked up the answer and it appears that no, membership is not incumbent in either club for belonging to the other one too. Joing the V-4 could be a rite of passage for any member state to later join the EU, possibly a good first step for Ukraine, while it gets its act together (and it has over the last few years been making good strides).

    V4 was formed before these countries joined the EU.

  105. @Thorfinnsson
    OT: bizarre case from Germany

    A "journalist" working for Der Spiegel wrote a bizarre, fabricated hit piece on the rural town of Fergus Falls, Minnesota as some sort of indictment of Trump's America.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/der-spiegels-first-class-faker/

    https://medium.com/@micheleanderson/der-spiegel-journalist-messed-with-the-wrong-small-town-d92f3e0e01a7

    Also rather telling which of his fake news the Fake News (capitalized) decided not to highlight.

  106. @reiner Tor
    I think the Afghan withdrawal is bad news, it’s saving the Empire from itself. As far as I can see, this is a totally useless and unnecessary war, even for the empire or the globalists. As a bonus, it never was a danger to trigger ww3. It’s just a waste of money and resources and military assets, which are part of the military and its budget anyway. So it’s not good for enemies of the empire to learn that those wasted resources are now going to be used for something else - unless that something else is even more useless (which is hard to see what could be). I don’t want them to have extra resources and military assets on their hands for some other adventures, which might actually be useful for them or dangerous to trigger ww3.

    Don’t be so cynical.
    The only thing that bothers me about Afghanistan is that we’ll get even more asylum seekers from there in Europe when the Taliban are back in power. And of course it’s sad that so many Americans and their allies (including a few dozen Germans) died for essentially nothing.
    But it was always a stupid project; if at all, it could have only succeeded with more radical measures (at least the Pashtuns should have been expelled from the areas of the country where they’re only a minority).
    If Trump manages to end it, he’ll at least have done something positive.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Four Hungarians also died for nothing. Though maybe they were serving a good cause: they died to improve Hungary’s relations with the US. That was the sole goal of their mission anyway. So it wasn’t totally useless.

    I don’t think I’m cynical at all, more like a realist. The war was good insofar as it tied down globalist resources and military assets. It also made it possible, at least theoretically, to deny asylum to people fleeing this budding democracy. And it’s a low intensity conflict anyway, so fortunately not that many people are dying there, though it’d of course be nice if it was possible that no one would die in this phenomenally stupid war, whose main goal is to create a high tech democratic market economy and export powerhouse similar to Japan and West Germany. It’s literally that stupid. I mean, West Germany and Japan were explicitly used both here and (even more extensively) in Iraq, another very stupid war.

    Anyway, pointless evil is the essence of the empire, like the Kosovo bombing or hormone treatments for “transgender” tweens. Until the evil essence is not destroyed (i.e. until Thorfinnsson is not yet President for Life of the USA), it’s better for the Afghan War to continue.

  107. Congratulations to our Russian friends for your glorious victory!

    Soviet troops are now in control of Washington.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    And this buffoon drags Kennan’s name into this crap of an article.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Win a couple of oilfields in Syria and lose all of Eastern Europe and half of your own country to own the yanks.
  108. @German_reader
    Don't be so cynical.
    The only thing that bothers me about Afghanistan is that we'll get even more asylum seekers from there in Europe when the Taliban are back in power. And of course it's sad that so many Americans and their allies (including a few dozen Germans) died for essentially nothing.
    But it was always a stupid project; if at all, it could have only succeeded with more radical measures (at least the Pashtuns should have been expelled from the areas of the country where they're only a minority).
    If Trump manages to end it, he'll at least have done something positive.

    Four Hungarians also died for nothing. Though maybe they were serving a good cause: they died to improve Hungary’s relations with the US. That was the sole goal of their mission anyway. So it wasn’t totally useless.

    I don’t think I’m cynical at all, more like a realist. The war was good insofar as it tied down globalist resources and military assets. It also made it possible, at least theoretically, to deny asylum to people fleeing this budding democracy. And it’s a low intensity conflict anyway, so fortunately not that many people are dying there, though it’d of course be nice if it was possible that no one would die in this phenomenally stupid war, whose main goal is to create a high tech democratic market economy and export powerhouse similar to Japan and West Germany. It’s literally that stupid. I mean, West Germany and Japan were explicitly used both here and (even more extensively) in Iraq, another very stupid war.

    Anyway, pointless evil is the essence of the empire, like the Kosovo bombing or hormone treatments for “transgender” tweens. Until the evil essence is not destroyed (i.e. until Thorfinnsson is not yet President for Life of the USA), it’s better for the Afghan War to continue.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    And it’s a low intensity conflict anyway
     
    Yes, but that also means that it's unlikely to really constrain America's ability for dangerous interventions in other parts of the globe. It certainly hasn't prevented the US from sending American troops to Ukraine (for training purposes or whatever the official story is).
    Withdrawal from Afghanistan - which would be an admission of failure - would at least advance the idea that it's not America's responsibility (or in its power) to "fix" other countries which it doesn't really understand.
    Of course American elites are unlikely to really learn anything (they didn't really learn anything from Vietnam, which should have been enough of a lesson).
  109. @Thorfinnsson
    https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1076540395851575297

    Congratulations to our Russian friends for your glorious victory!

    Soviet troops are now in control of Washington.

    And this buffoon drags Kennan’s name into this crap of an article.

  110. @reiner Tor
    Four Hungarians also died for nothing. Though maybe they were serving a good cause: they died to improve Hungary’s relations with the US. That was the sole goal of their mission anyway. So it wasn’t totally useless.

    I don’t think I’m cynical at all, more like a realist. The war was good insofar as it tied down globalist resources and military assets. It also made it possible, at least theoretically, to deny asylum to people fleeing this budding democracy. And it’s a low intensity conflict anyway, so fortunately not that many people are dying there, though it’d of course be nice if it was possible that no one would die in this phenomenally stupid war, whose main goal is to create a high tech democratic market economy and export powerhouse similar to Japan and West Germany. It’s literally that stupid. I mean, West Germany and Japan were explicitly used both here and (even more extensively) in Iraq, another very stupid war.

    Anyway, pointless evil is the essence of the empire, like the Kosovo bombing or hormone treatments for “transgender” tweens. Until the evil essence is not destroyed (i.e. until Thorfinnsson is not yet President for Life of the USA), it’s better for the Afghan War to continue.

    And it’s a low intensity conflict anyway

    Yes, but that also means that it’s unlikely to really constrain America’s ability for dangerous interventions in other parts of the globe. It certainly hasn’t prevented the US from sending American troops to Ukraine (for training purposes or whatever the official story is).
    Withdrawal from Afghanistan – which would be an admission of failure – would at least advance the idea that it’s not America’s responsibility (or in its power) to “fix” other countries which it doesn’t really understand.
    Of course American elites are unlikely to really learn anything (they didn’t really learn anything from Vietnam, which should have been enough of a lesson).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The US military budget is so high because of the salaries of soldiers and the high costs of military pensions, veterans’ healthcare (including for stupid things like PTSD), and a significant portion of US service personnel are stationed there. If you add the expensive logistics, and the useless nation building stuff like building schools, you will get that maybe 5% of the US military budget is going towards this utterly pointless war. This is not much, but more than nothing.
  111. @Thorfinnsson
    https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1076540395851575297

    Congratulations to our Russian friends for your glorious victory!

    Soviet troops are now in control of Washington.

    Win a couple of oilfields in Syria and lose all of Eastern Europe and half of your own country to own the yanks.

  112. @German_reader

    And it’s a low intensity conflict anyway
     
    Yes, but that also means that it's unlikely to really constrain America's ability for dangerous interventions in other parts of the globe. It certainly hasn't prevented the US from sending American troops to Ukraine (for training purposes or whatever the official story is).
    Withdrawal from Afghanistan - which would be an admission of failure - would at least advance the idea that it's not America's responsibility (or in its power) to "fix" other countries which it doesn't really understand.
    Of course American elites are unlikely to really learn anything (they didn't really learn anything from Vietnam, which should have been enough of a lesson).

    The US military budget is so high because of the salaries of soldiers and the high costs of military pensions, veterans’ healthcare (including for stupid things like PTSD), and a significant portion of US service personnel are stationed there. If you add the expensive logistics, and the useless nation building stuff like building schools, you will get that maybe 5% of the US military budget is going towards this utterly pointless war. This is not much, but more than nothing.

  113. @Thorfinnsson
    OT: bizarre case from Germany

    A "journalist" working for Der Spiegel wrote a bizarre, fabricated hit piece on the rural town of Fergus Falls, Minnesota as some sort of indictment of Trump's America.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/der-spiegels-first-class-faker/

    https://medium.com/@micheleanderson/der-spiegel-journalist-messed-with-the-wrong-small-town-d92f3e0e01a7

    It’s funny how the Minnesota lady still couldn’t resist the barb about ‘voting against their own interests’ regarding her fellow residents.

  114. @Thorfinnsson
    OT: bizarre case from Germany

    A "journalist" working for Der Spiegel wrote a bizarre, fabricated hit piece on the rural town of Fergus Falls, Minnesota as some sort of indictment of Trump's America.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/der-spiegels-first-class-faker/

    https://medium.com/@micheleanderson/der-spiegel-journalist-messed-with-the-wrong-small-town-d92f3e0e01a7

    It really says a lot about mainstream media – not just that it has a narrative, is lazy, and nearly worse than useless – but it speaks to the people who form the bulk of it. They have a political compass and people who have one that points in that general direction might not be very good at picking up obvious lies.

    And I don’t know if there are structural incentives for doing so. Does anyone get a bonus for finding falsehoods? Will they run a series on all his lies? Or now devote the same space to someone with the opposite narrative? I’m guessing the answer to all of the above is no.

  115. @Thorfinnsson
    OT: bizarre case from Germany

    A "journalist" working for Der Spiegel wrote a bizarre, fabricated hit piece on the rural town of Fergus Falls, Minnesota as some sort of indictment of Trump's America.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/der-spiegels-first-class-faker/

    https://medium.com/@micheleanderson/der-spiegel-journalist-messed-with-the-wrong-small-town-d92f3e0e01a7

    I know that you’re still working on the ‘irrational religious’ stuff’ (good for you), but didn’t I recently tell you about how you might benefit immensely by taking up residence in Minnesota (which really isn’t that different from Michigan)? I tried to entice you with descriptions of beautiful blonde Scandinavian hotties that want to settle down and start families. Minnesota is definitely the place for you. See what I mean (this kind of allure can be had in the small town of Scandia):

    What’s there not to like? A snifter filled with your favorite Aquavit, pipe & slippers, and you’ve won the trifecta! Minnesota is the place for you, Thorffinsson:

    Fergus Falls, where “people pray for Donald Trump on Sundays,” confirmed what we all “know.” It was a tableau of “red-neck” America — a gun-toting, intolerant, anti-immigrant and irrationally religious nation.

  116. @German_reader
    That guy got lots of prizes for his pieces, e.g. he was CNN's "Journalist of the year" in 2014, and got the Deutsche Reporterpreis just a few weeks ago.
    He seems to have fabricated a lot of his pieces, all in the service of Germany's dominant narrative; e.g. he had an interview with the last surviving member of the anti-Nazi group Weiße Rose (many of whose members were executed in 1943), and according to him she of course warned against the AfD and made detailed references to the "Nazi" riots in Chemnitz in August (which didn't happen, but were a fake news invention by German msm). Turns out this is a total invention, and nothing of this sort was actually said in the interview.
    Also lots of truly bizarre stuff (e.g. he wrote a story about two Syrian orphans in Turkey who allegedly sometimes see Angela Merkel in their dreams at night).
    They're of course trying to spin it as an isolated case, but it's more proof that most of German journalism fully deserves the term Lügenpresse.

    Merkel would be a nightmare for anyone. And if she were physically there to wake them, had flown in, there is not a boy, let alone hardened Islamic fighter or terrorist who wouldn’t scream and reach for his bomb. You’ve got to steel yourself to seeing her face, and that takes wakefulness.

  117. @Anatoly Karlin

    How many Russian commenters have told Akarlin to go fuck himself at this point?
     
    Almost all of whom are emigres, not Russian, or both (such as yourself).

    Update. Thank you Mr. Hack for so eloquently and succinctly making my point.

    Hey Fearless Leader, I’ve never once told you to F-off. I appreciate your democratic spirit in letting everybody here spout off whatever brand of nonsense that floats their boat. Did you know that I recently got banned from the Mad Bohemians site (after only two comments!) for posting a whataboutism?? Now if anybody needs to F-off it’s definitely him – what a paranoid looser! 🙁

  118. Canadians revolt against crazed, bloodthirsty Trudeau regime: https://globalnews.ca/news/4783447/alberta-grassroots-group-convoy-ottawa-pipelines-oil-and-gas/

    Trump must impose No Fly Zone and provide lethal aid to Alberta roughnecks!

  119. @reiner Tor
    I think the Afghan withdrawal is bad news, it’s saving the Empire from itself. As far as I can see, this is a totally useless and unnecessary war, even for the empire or the globalists. As a bonus, it never was a danger to trigger ww3. It’s just a waste of money and resources and military assets, which are part of the military and its budget anyway. So it’s not good for enemies of the empire to learn that those wasted resources are now going to be used for something else - unless that something else is even more useless (which is hard to see what could be). I don’t want them to have extra resources and military assets on their hands for some other adventures, which might actually be useful for them or dangerous to trigger ww3.

    A major component of NATO’s involvement in Afghanistan is it’s connection with Iran’s heroin epidemic that has reached plague proportions in the country since the 2010’s. The country never previously suffered from serious violent crime, but this has been changing. Probably only Baron Kaldian has been there as well, but differences on the average Tehran street to a visitor in the past ten years are striking.

  120. @Mr. Hack
    Does a member state in the V-4 first need to be a member state of the EU? I was treating the two as separate entities, yet you seem to lop them in together as one organic whole? Actually, I just looked up the answer and it appears that no, membership is not incumbent in either club for belonging to the other one too. Joing the V-4 could be a rite of passage for any member state to later join the EU, possibly a good first step for Ukraine, while it gets its act together (and it has over the last few years been making good strides).

    V4 is a political-cultural association of 4 Central-East countries. It comes with no trade or security policies – those are EU.

    Ukraine doesn’t fit for the following reasons: it is not in Central Europe, it is substantially poorer, it is Orthodox, it is chaotic. In addition 2 or 3 of V4 countries have traditionally good relations with Russia, Poland is an exception. We want to trade with Russia and have normal relations. Ukraine seems to want a war or some endless hostility and yelling at each other – we are not interested.

    Kiev doesn’t understand that its warlike posture toward Russia makes integrating Ukraine into EU or V4 (or Europe in general) more difficult. They have been acting like out-of-control clowns. People may not say it openly because of ‘geopolitic’ pressures, but the irresponsibility has been noted. Nobody wants a poor, desperate, loose cannon in their club. Britain is on its way out of EU, McCain is dead, Nuland is making cookies for her husband, who is it exactly that Kiev is trying to impress with its pointless militancy?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    First and foremost, it's defending its own borders from unsolicited aggression. Any 'real country' would do at least as much. Secondly, it's giving the world notice that it's willing to wage war in order to protect its borders and that it plans to be around for a long time to come. Ukraine has really never relied on German help in its current defense of its borders and could really give two shits whether Germany wishes to trade with Russia or not. At least for the last four years Merkel has given clear signs to Russia that Germany does not countenance Russia's destabilizing actions in Ukraine.
    , @reiner Tor
    V4 means Visegrád 4.

    In 1335 there was a congress of the kings of Poland, Bohemia and Hungary in the summer residence of the King of Hungary in the town of Visegrád, where they concluded a number of treaties and alliances against each other’s enemies.

    In 1991 the three countries (now Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary) decided to cooperate once again, which was started by a meeting once again in the town of Visegrád. After Czechoslovakia separated into Czechia and Slovakia, this group became the V4.
  121. anon[126] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: What is going on in Sudan? Just as Sudanese Bashir visited Syria and as first Arab leader met with Assad, by pure accident large scale protests in Sudan began.

    Last December, there was aspiring revolution in Iran that fizzled out.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iranomaidan/

    What about Sudan? True Maidan, or flash in the pan? If the revolution succeeds, what, if any difference it will make?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    If the revolution succeeds, what, if any difference it will make?
     
    Has there ever been a time after the Mahdi when Sudan has been of any importance?
  122. @Beckow
    V4 is a political-cultural association of 4 Central-East countries. It comes with no trade or security policies - those are EU.

    Ukraine doesn't fit for the following reasons: it is not in Central Europe, it is substantially poorer, it is Orthodox, it is chaotic. In addition 2 or 3 of V4 countries have traditionally good relations with Russia, Poland is an exception. We want to trade with Russia and have normal relations. Ukraine seems to want a war or some endless hostility and yelling at each other - we are not interested.

    Kiev doesn't understand that its warlike posture toward Russia makes integrating Ukraine into EU or V4 (or Europe in general) more difficult. They have been acting like out-of-control clowns. People may not say it openly because of 'geopolitic' pressures, but the irresponsibility has been noted. Nobody wants a poor, desperate, loose cannon in their club. Britain is on its way out of EU, McCain is dead, Nuland is making cookies for her husband, who is it exactly that Kiev is trying to impress with its pointless militancy?

    First and foremost, it’s defending its own borders from unsolicited aggression. Any ‘real country’ would do at least as much. Secondly, it’s giving the world notice that it’s willing to wage war in order to protect its borders and that it plans to be around for a long time to come. Ukraine has really never relied on German help in its current defense of its borders and could really give two shits whether Germany wishes to trade with Russia or not. At least for the last four years Merkel has given clear signs to Russia that Germany does not countenance Russia’s destabilizing actions in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Butterlord
    After reading your posts I've decided to visit Ukraine in the summer.
    But I hate seeing poor people walking the streets and goblin faced babushkas getting in the way. Is Ukraine better than shithole country like Latvia, Georgia and below mediocre Estonia? Would it be easy to score an escort girl there? Many thanks!
    , @Beckow

    ...defending its own borders from unsolicited aggression
     
    You know that it is more complicated, so why are you using slogans instead of your mind?

    I agree about the second point: wars do form nations, but they are also often very costly.

    Telling others (Germans or V4) that you 'don't give a sh..t about what they think or want' is a poor way of getting their help. And it is Ukraine that wants into EU and V4 clubs, we don't care. Enjoy the war with Russia, but you are likely to lose. And then you will knock on our doors as hundreds of thousands (millions) of more level-headed Ukrainians are already doing. What do they know, that you don't?

  123. @anon
    OT: What is going on in Sudan? Just as Sudanese Bashir visited Syria and as first Arab leader met with Assad, by pure accident large scale protests in Sudan began.

    https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1076540372950511618

    https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1076224787666612224


    Last December, there was aspiring revolution in Iran that fizzled out.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iranomaidan/

    What about Sudan? True Maidan, or flash in the pan? If the revolution succeeds, what, if any difference it will make?

    If the revolution succeeds, what, if any difference it will make?

    Has there ever been a time after the Mahdi when Sudan has been of any importance?

  124. @German_reader
    That guy got lots of prizes for his pieces, e.g. he was CNN's "Journalist of the year" in 2014, and got the Deutsche Reporterpreis just a few weeks ago.
    He seems to have fabricated a lot of his pieces, all in the service of Germany's dominant narrative; e.g. he had an interview with the last surviving member of the anti-Nazi group Weiße Rose (many of whose members were executed in 1943), and according to him she of course warned against the AfD and made detailed references to the "Nazi" riots in Chemnitz in August (which didn't happen, but were a fake news invention by German msm). Turns out this is a total invention, and nothing of this sort was actually said in the interview.
    Also lots of truly bizarre stuff (e.g. he wrote a story about two Syrian orphans in Turkey who allegedly sometimes see Angela Merkel in their dreams at night).
    They're of course trying to spin it as an isolated case, but it's more proof that most of German journalism fully deserves the term Lügenpresse.

    “They’re of course trying to spin it as an isolated case” – I think it is the tip of the iceberg. A new normal.

  125. @German_reader
    That guy got lots of prizes for his pieces, e.g. he was CNN's "Journalist of the year" in 2014, and got the Deutsche Reporterpreis just a few weeks ago.
    He seems to have fabricated a lot of his pieces, all in the service of Germany's dominant narrative; e.g. he had an interview with the last surviving member of the anti-Nazi group Weiße Rose (many of whose members were executed in 1943), and according to him she of course warned against the AfD and made detailed references to the "Nazi" riots in Chemnitz in August (which didn't happen, but were a fake news invention by German msm). Turns out this is a total invention, and nothing of this sort was actually said in the interview.
    Also lots of truly bizarre stuff (e.g. he wrote a story about two Syrian orphans in Turkey who allegedly sometimes see Angela Merkel in their dreams at night).
    They're of course trying to spin it as an isolated case, but it's more proof that most of German journalism fully deserves the term Lügenpresse.

    Apparently that Relotius’ guy was uncovered because his last story was so extreme it aroused the suspicions of a colleague who then checked the sources.
    It’s another bizarre anti-US hit piece, about a group of middle-aged US army veterans who have allegedly set up a kind of private militia along the Arizona-Mexico border to catch illegal immigrants (and supposedly tell the journalist things like “Once we caught a youth from El Salvador, and sent him back through the desert, without shoes and water”):
    http://www.spiegel.de/plus/buergerwehr-gegen-fluechtlinge-in-arizona-jaegers-grenze-a-00000000-0002-0001-0000-000160834460
    There’s lots more of hilariously implausible stuff in this piece (also some strange English, like “battle for survive”, or a sign reading “end of country” at the border).
    I suppose he got away so long with this kind of nonsense because SPIEGEL is read only by true believers nowadays.

  126. @Mr. Hack
    First and foremost, it's defending its own borders from unsolicited aggression. Any 'real country' would do at least as much. Secondly, it's giving the world notice that it's willing to wage war in order to protect its borders and that it plans to be around for a long time to come. Ukraine has really never relied on German help in its current defense of its borders and could really give two shits whether Germany wishes to trade with Russia or not. At least for the last four years Merkel has given clear signs to Russia that Germany does not countenance Russia's destabilizing actions in Ukraine.

    After reading your posts I’ve decided to visit Ukraine in the summer.
    But I hate seeing poor people walking the streets and goblin faced babushkas getting in the way. Is Ukraine better than shithole country like Latvia, Georgia and below mediocre Estonia? Would it be easy to score an escort girl there? Many thanks!

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    I disagree with most of Mr. Hack's opinions, but this is just blatantly provoking him.
    , @Mr. Hack
    Stay in Budweiser - the local girls would beat the crap out of a wimp like you! :-)
  127. @Butterlord
    After reading your posts I've decided to visit Ukraine in the summer.
    But I hate seeing poor people walking the streets and goblin faced babushkas getting in the way. Is Ukraine better than shithole country like Latvia, Georgia and below mediocre Estonia? Would it be easy to score an escort girl there? Many thanks!

    I disagree with most of Mr. Hack’s opinions, but this is just blatantly provoking him.

  128. @Beckow
    V4 is a political-cultural association of 4 Central-East countries. It comes with no trade or security policies - those are EU.

    Ukraine doesn't fit for the following reasons: it is not in Central Europe, it is substantially poorer, it is Orthodox, it is chaotic. In addition 2 or 3 of V4 countries have traditionally good relations with Russia, Poland is an exception. We want to trade with Russia and have normal relations. Ukraine seems to want a war or some endless hostility and yelling at each other - we are not interested.

    Kiev doesn't understand that its warlike posture toward Russia makes integrating Ukraine into EU or V4 (or Europe in general) more difficult. They have been acting like out-of-control clowns. People may not say it openly because of 'geopolitic' pressures, but the irresponsibility has been noted. Nobody wants a poor, desperate, loose cannon in their club. Britain is on its way out of EU, McCain is dead, Nuland is making cookies for her husband, who is it exactly that Kiev is trying to impress with its pointless militancy?

    V4 means Visegrád 4.

    In 1335 there was a congress of the kings of Poland, Bohemia and Hungary in the summer residence of the King of Hungary in the town of Visegrád, where they concluded a number of treaties and alliances against each other’s enemies.

    In 1991 the three countries (now Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary) decided to cooperate once again, which was started by a meeting once again in the town of Visegrád. After Czechoslovakia separated into Czechia and Slovakia, this group became the V4.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...In 1335 there was a congress of the kings of Poland, Bohemia and Hungary in the summer residence of the King of Hungary in the town of Visegrád
     
    I would add that Visegrad means 'upper castle' - in Slovak, so we claim it :) - and only a small part of Ukraine would fit in: Subcarpathia.

    V4 with 65 million people and fast growing economy, is 99% European in the most traditional sense. It is peaceful, with very low crime, excellent universities, great outdoors and walkable cities. It has some of the best infrastructure in the world, from subways to plumbing. It is a day and night in comparison to Ukraine, or even to many Western cities that have been overrun by liberal fantasies.

    It is the largest compact and prospering white area left in the world. Let's keep it that way. Mr. Hack can have his wars with Russia or whoever without us.

  129. @Butterlord
    After reading your posts I've decided to visit Ukraine in the summer.
    But I hate seeing poor people walking the streets and goblin faced babushkas getting in the way. Is Ukraine better than shithole country like Latvia, Georgia and below mediocre Estonia? Would it be easy to score an escort girl there? Many thanks!

    Stay in Budweiser – the local girls would beat the crap out of a wimp like you! 🙂

  130. @reiner Tor
    V4 means Visegrád 4.

    In 1335 there was a congress of the kings of Poland, Bohemia and Hungary in the summer residence of the King of Hungary in the town of Visegrád, where they concluded a number of treaties and alliances against each other’s enemies.

    In 1991 the three countries (now Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary) decided to cooperate once again, which was started by a meeting once again in the town of Visegrád. After Czechoslovakia separated into Czechia and Slovakia, this group became the V4.

    …In 1335 there was a congress of the kings of Poland, Bohemia and Hungary in the summer residence of the King of Hungary in the town of Visegrád

    I would add that Visegrad means ‘upper castle’ – in Slovak, so we claim it 🙂 – and only a small part of Ukraine would fit in: Subcarpathia.

    V4 with 65 million people and fast growing economy, is 99% European in the most traditional sense. It is peaceful, with very low crime, excellent universities, great outdoors and walkable cities. It has some of the best infrastructure in the world, from subways to plumbing. It is a day and night in comparison to Ukraine, or even to many Western cities that have been overrun by liberal fantasies.

    It is the largest compact and prospering white area left in the world. Let’s keep it that way. Mr. Hack can have his wars with Russia or whoever without us.

    • Replies: @AP

    V4 with 65 million people and fast growing economy, is 99% European in the most traditional sense
     
    65 million is only that of a middling European country. Add the Baltics, and Ukraine, and Romania and you have 70 million more people, something more viable.

    It is peaceful, with very low crime, excellent universities, great outdoors and walkable cities. It has some of the best infrastructure in the world, from subways to plumbing. It is a day and night in comparison to Ukraine
     
    Lviv is dirt cheap but its appearance and quality are comparable to that of Visegrad cities. Poles who visit say it's like a Polish city from 10 years ago. When have you been to Ukraine?

    It is the largest compact and prospering white area left in the world. Let’s keep it that way.
     
    Best way to keep it that way is to make it larger and more populated.

    Here is Islamic percentage in Europe:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Islam_in_Europe.png/1200px-Islam_in_Europe.png
  131. @Mr. Hack
    First and foremost, it's defending its own borders from unsolicited aggression. Any 'real country' would do at least as much. Secondly, it's giving the world notice that it's willing to wage war in order to protect its borders and that it plans to be around for a long time to come. Ukraine has really never relied on German help in its current defense of its borders and could really give two shits whether Germany wishes to trade with Russia or not. At least for the last four years Merkel has given clear signs to Russia that Germany does not countenance Russia's destabilizing actions in Ukraine.

    …defending its own borders from unsolicited aggression

    You know that it is more complicated, so why are you using slogans instead of your mind?

    I agree about the second point: wars do form nations, but they are also often very costly.

    Telling others (Germans or V4) that you ‘don’t give a sh..t about what they think or want‘ is a poor way of getting their help. And it is Ukraine that wants into EU and V4 clubs, we don’t care. Enjoy the war with Russia, but you are likely to lose. And then you will knock on our doors as hundreds of thousands (millions) of more level-headed Ukrainians are already doing. What do they know, that you don’t?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Ukraine's moves seem to be approved if not sanctioned by Washington which still seems to have veto power over Brussels in the pyramid of power of the West. Poland' as well as Lithuania's moves also are sanctioned by NATO, that also seems to take its marching orders from Washington. I don't think that Ukraine's moves to defend its borders will in any way harm its future course of inclusion into western alliances, at least not in the near future. In case you've forgotten, for all of their posturing, every single country within the EU is on record for voting to sanction Russia since its unwanted incursions in 2014!
    , @AP

    And it is Ukraine that wants into EU and V4 clubs, we don’t care.
     
    Poland has consistently supported Ukraine's aspirations. It is by far the largest and most important of the V4 countries.
  132. @Beckow

    ...defending its own borders from unsolicited aggression
     
    You know that it is more complicated, so why are you using slogans instead of your mind?

    I agree about the second point: wars do form nations, but they are also often very costly.

    Telling others (Germans or V4) that you 'don't give a sh..t about what they think or want' is a poor way of getting their help. And it is Ukraine that wants into EU and V4 clubs, we don't care. Enjoy the war with Russia, but you are likely to lose. And then you will knock on our doors as hundreds of thousands (millions) of more level-headed Ukrainians are already doing. What do they know, that you don't?

    Ukraine’s moves seem to be approved if not sanctioned by Washington which still seems to have veto power over Brussels in the pyramid of power of the West. Poland’ as well as Lithuania’s moves also are sanctioned by NATO, that also seems to take its marching orders from Washington. I don’t think that Ukraine’s moves to defend its borders will in any way harm its future course of inclusion into western alliances, at least not in the near future. In case you’ve forgotten, for all of their posturing, every single country within the EU is on record for voting to sanction Russia since its unwanted incursions in 2014!

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...Ukraine’s moves seem to be approved if not sanctioned by Washington
     
    Sure. But it is a long way from Washington to the conference table where decisions on EU and V4 are actually made. Ask Turks about how much good did 'approval' from Washington (and London) do when they tried getting into EU. They will be never be allowed in, no matter what NY Times editorials say. Or ask Kosovo. Veto power is not much help when you try to get people to do something.

    Plus, Washington really doesn't care if the sweets are delivered as rewards. They will just shrug their shoulders and blame it on 'nationalism'. After all, the whole Maidan thing was about getting Russians out of Sevastopol and Nato Navy in, it failed, so why reward anyone?

    There are 6-8 states who vote repeatedly for sanctions in order to 'maintain EU unity'. Then they often fly to Moscow to apologize and plead for more business, and they publicly dis-associate themsleves from the 'sanctions'. Is that stable in your mind? Do you really think they have Kiev's back?
  133. @Mr. Hack
    Ukraine's moves seem to be approved if not sanctioned by Washington which still seems to have veto power over Brussels in the pyramid of power of the West. Poland' as well as Lithuania's moves also are sanctioned by NATO, that also seems to take its marching orders from Washington. I don't think that Ukraine's moves to defend its borders will in any way harm its future course of inclusion into western alliances, at least not in the near future. In case you've forgotten, for all of their posturing, every single country within the EU is on record for voting to sanction Russia since its unwanted incursions in 2014!

    …Ukraine’s moves seem to be approved if not sanctioned by Washington

    Sure. But it is a long way from Washington to the conference table where decisions on EU and V4 are actually made. Ask Turks about how much good did ‘approval’ from Washington (and London) do when they tried getting into EU. They will be never be allowed in, no matter what NY Times editorials say. Or ask Kosovo. Veto power is not much help when you try to get people to do something.

    Plus, Washington really doesn’t care if the sweets are delivered as rewards. They will just shrug their shoulders and blame it on ‘nationalism‘. After all, the whole Maidan thing was about getting Russians out of Sevastopol and Nato Navy in, it failed, so why reward anyone?

    There are 6-8 states who vote repeatedly for sanctions in order to ‘maintain EU unity’. Then they often fly to Moscow to apologize and plead for more business, and they publicly dis-associate themsleves from the ‘sanctions’. Is that stable in your mind? Do you really think they have Kiev’s back?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Is that stable in your mind? Do you really think they have Kiev’s back?
     
    Of course they don't, and this is why Ukraine doesn't really look towards Europe for its protection, but rather more towards the US (which has really stepped up its support for Ukraine over the last two years). After receiving the very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status, I really don't understand what else Ukraine seeks to gain from becoming a full blown member state? But inclusion into an expanded V-4 group makes more and more sense to me, especially after reading AP's glowing assessments for such a union.
  134. @Beckow

    ...In 1335 there was a congress of the kings of Poland, Bohemia and Hungary in the summer residence of the King of Hungary in the town of Visegrád
     
    I would add that Visegrad means 'upper castle' - in Slovak, so we claim it :) - and only a small part of Ukraine would fit in: Subcarpathia.

    V4 with 65 million people and fast growing economy, is 99% European in the most traditional sense. It is peaceful, with very low crime, excellent universities, great outdoors and walkable cities. It has some of the best infrastructure in the world, from subways to plumbing. It is a day and night in comparison to Ukraine, or even to many Western cities that have been overrun by liberal fantasies.

    It is the largest compact and prospering white area left in the world. Let's keep it that way. Mr. Hack can have his wars with Russia or whoever without us.

    V4 with 65 million people and fast growing economy, is 99% European in the most traditional sense

    65 million is only that of a middling European country. Add the Baltics, and Ukraine, and Romania and you have 70 million more people, something more viable.

    It is peaceful, with very low crime, excellent universities, great outdoors and walkable cities. It has some of the best infrastructure in the world, from subways to plumbing. It is a day and night in comparison to Ukraine

    Lviv is dirt cheap but its appearance and quality are comparable to that of Visegrad cities. Poles who visit say it’s like a Polish city from 10 years ago. When have you been to Ukraine?

    It is the largest compact and prospering white area left in the world. Let’s keep it that way.

    Best way to keep it that way is to make it larger and more populated.

    Here is Islamic percentage in Europe:

  135. @Beckow

    ...defending its own borders from unsolicited aggression
     
    You know that it is more complicated, so why are you using slogans instead of your mind?

    I agree about the second point: wars do form nations, but they are also often very costly.

    Telling others (Germans or V4) that you 'don't give a sh..t about what they think or want' is a poor way of getting their help. And it is Ukraine that wants into EU and V4 clubs, we don't care. Enjoy the war with Russia, but you are likely to lose. And then you will knock on our doors as hundreds of thousands (millions) of more level-headed Ukrainians are already doing. What do they know, that you don't?

    And it is Ukraine that wants into EU and V4 clubs, we don’t care.

    Poland has consistently supported Ukraine’s aspirations. It is by far the largest and most important of the V4 countries.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    Add the Baltics, and Ukraine, and Romania and you have 70 million more people
     
    Each comes with some serious issues: Ukraine is dysfunctional and chaotic, Romania is - how to say it politely? - well, very 'Romanian', and with the Baltics one inherits their absurd linguistic apartheid against Russians, who needs it?

    A better way to expand V4 core European area would be to add Austria (I know, tricky), Croatia, Slovenia and the salvageable parts of Germany (east...). Those countries also have more functional economies.

    Lviv is just one city in a large country, Ukraine comes with a lot more baggage and costs than benefits. They are simply too poor to fit into V4. Plus, there seems to be a bizarre multicultural Ukrainian angle with all the 'suffering Tatars', Afghani Maidanistas, and the current leadership. V4 with Ukraine would be poorer, less European, and more random, it would lose its cache.

    Poland is by far the largest and most important of the V4 countries.
     
    Poland and its obsessive politics and emotional history are the Achilles heel of V4. Yes, there are a lot of Poles, but V4 without Poland might be better. When Poles start marching eastward (again) to do one of their occasional poetry-filled suicide wars, we can get them out of V4 and replace them with Slovenia. Smaller, but with some common sense...
  136. @AP

    And it is Ukraine that wants into EU and V4 clubs, we don’t care.
     
    Poland has consistently supported Ukraine's aspirations. It is by far the largest and most important of the V4 countries.

    Add the Baltics, and Ukraine, and Romania and you have 70 million more people

    Each comes with some serious issues: Ukraine is dysfunctional and chaotic, Romania is – how to say it politely? – well, very ‘Romanian’, and with the Baltics one inherits their absurd linguistic apartheid against Russians, who needs it?

    A better way to expand V4 core European area would be to add Austria (I know, tricky), Croatia, Slovenia and the salvageable parts of Germany (east…). Those countries also have more functional economies.

    Lviv is just one city in a large country, Ukraine comes with a lot more baggage and costs than benefits. They are simply too poor to fit into V4. Plus, there seems to be a bizarre multicultural Ukrainian angle with all the ‘suffering Tatars’, Afghani Maidanistas, and the current leadership. V4 with Ukraine would be poorer, less European, and more random, it would lose its cache.

    Poland is by far the largest and most important of the V4 countries.

    Poland and its obsessive politics and emotional history are the Achilles heel of V4. Yes, there are a lot of Poles, but V4 without Poland might be better. When Poles start marching eastward (again) to do one of their occasional poetry-filled suicide wars, we can get them out of V4 and replace them with Slovenia. Smaller, but with some common sense…

    • Replies: @AP

    Each comes with some serious issues: Ukraine is dysfunctional and chaotic, Romania is – how to say it politely? – well, very ‘Romanian’, and with the Baltics one inherits their absurd linguistic apartheid against Russians, who needs it?
     
    And they come with advantages - you will now have a Bloc of countries with 99% European populations and generally conservative values with more people than any European country, something like France + Germany. And a lot of strategic depth.

    A better way to expand V4 core European area would be to add Austria (I know, tricky), Croatia, Slovenia and the salvageable parts of Germany (east…). Those countries also have more functional economies.
     
    I should have added Croatia and Slovenia to the list. Austria is indeed tricky.

    Lviv is just one city in a large country, Ukraine comes with a lot more baggage and costs than benefits
     
    Currently, yes. The long-term goal should be to convince and help the Ukrainians to fix those problems because a decent Ukraine joining V4 makes V4 much stronger and much more capable of operating independently. Jettisoning Donbas which was the most dysfunctional part, and losing Crimea which is not even Ukrainian ethnically, were good first steps ironically made by the Russians.

    Plus, there seems to be a bizarre multicultural Ukrainian angle with all the ‘suffering Tatars’, Afghani Maidanistas, and the current leadership
     
    Tatars are secular and in 2001 (including Crimea) were .5% of the population. So they are less now. There was a single journalist of Afghani descent heavily involved in Maidan. There is much more of a gypsy problem in V4 than an Islam problem in Ukraine. Actually Ukraine would help dilute V4's serious gypsy problem.

    Poland and its obsessive politics and emotional history are the Achilles heel of V4. Yes, there are a lot of Poles, but V4 without Poland might be better.

     
    Poland is the core of V4. Without Poland you have Czechoslovakia plus Hungary, small helpless countries with no militaries and small economies bound to be totally dependent on their larger neighbors. How did the 1930s-1940s work out for this region? With Poland you at least have something the size of France. With Ukraine, the Baltics, Romania, Croatia, Slovenia you have a true regional power. The long-term strategic goal should be the incorporation of these regions into an expanded V4 that would be a large European homeland.
  137. @Beckow

    Add the Baltics, and Ukraine, and Romania and you have 70 million more people
     
    Each comes with some serious issues: Ukraine is dysfunctional and chaotic, Romania is - how to say it politely? - well, very 'Romanian', and with the Baltics one inherits their absurd linguistic apartheid against Russians, who needs it?

    A better way to expand V4 core European area would be to add Austria (I know, tricky), Croatia, Slovenia and the salvageable parts of Germany (east...). Those countries also have more functional economies.

    Lviv is just one city in a large country, Ukraine comes with a lot more baggage and costs than benefits. They are simply too poor to fit into V4. Plus, there seems to be a bizarre multicultural Ukrainian angle with all the 'suffering Tatars', Afghani Maidanistas, and the current leadership. V4 with Ukraine would be poorer, less European, and more random, it would lose its cache.

    Poland is by far the largest and most important of the V4 countries.
     
    Poland and its obsessive politics and emotional history are the Achilles heel of V4. Yes, there are a lot of Poles, but V4 without Poland might be better. When Poles start marching eastward (again) to do one of their occasional poetry-filled suicide wars, we can get them out of V4 and replace them with Slovenia. Smaller, but with some common sense...

    Each comes with some serious issues: Ukraine is dysfunctional and chaotic, Romania is – how to say it politely? – well, very ‘Romanian’, and with the Baltics one inherits their absurd linguistic apartheid against Russians, who needs it?

    And they come with advantages – you will now have a Bloc of countries with 99% European populations and generally conservative values with more people than any European country, something like France + Germany. And a lot of strategic depth.

    A better way to expand V4 core European area would be to add Austria (I know, tricky), Croatia, Slovenia and the salvageable parts of Germany (east…). Those countries also have more functional economies.

    I should have added Croatia and Slovenia to the list. Austria is indeed tricky.

    Lviv is just one city in a large country, Ukraine comes with a lot more baggage and costs than benefits

    Currently, yes. The long-term goal should be to convince and help the Ukrainians to fix those problems because a decent Ukraine joining V4 makes V4 much stronger and much more capable of operating independently. Jettisoning Donbas which was the most dysfunctional part, and losing Crimea which is not even Ukrainian ethnically, were good first steps ironically made by the Russians.

    Plus, there seems to be a bizarre multicultural Ukrainian angle with all the ‘suffering Tatars’, Afghani Maidanistas, and the current leadership

    Tatars are secular and in 2001 (including Crimea) were .5% of the population. So they are less now. There was a single journalist of Afghani descent heavily involved in Maidan. There is much more of a gypsy problem in V4 than an Islam problem in Ukraine. Actually Ukraine would help dilute V4’s serious gypsy problem.

    Poland and its obsessive politics and emotional history are the Achilles heel of V4. Yes, there are a lot of Poles, but V4 without Poland might be better.

    Poland is the core of V4. Without Poland you have Czechoslovakia plus Hungary, small helpless countries with no militaries and small economies bound to be totally dependent on their larger neighbors. How did the 1930s-1940s work out for this region? With Poland you at least have something the size of France. With Ukraine, the Baltics, Romania, Croatia, Slovenia you have a true regional power. The long-term strategic goal should be the incorporation of these regions into an expanded V4 that would be a large European homeland.

    • Replies: @Turgot
    To say that countries of V4 have conservative values is absurd. There are no conservative countries anymore.

    To have a conservative country you must have: high religiosity, opposition to divorces, contraception, abortion, casual sex, eroticization of public space, pornography, LGBT movement.

    90% of the things I mentioned don't exist in V4 on a deeper, which means genuine and real, level. V4 is at core as decadent as the West, only without loud fringe phenomena like the LGBT movement. But the core decadence exists and is developing

    , @Beckow

    ...Czechoslovakia plus Hungary, small helpless countries with no militaries
     
    We don't want to have a war, so we really don't care about the 'military'! That's the whole point, and you don't seem to be getting it.

    Let me put it bluntly: Poland and today's Ukraine are on a path to war with Russia. We want no part of that, it is the stupidest idea so far in the 21st century. You can argue all you want that you don't want 'a war', or that it won't happen because blabla... it looks to any rational observer that Poland and Ukraine (and the Baltic states) are inevitably sliding towards a war with Russia. Placing missiles from far away allies on your territory, endless demonization and propaganda, talking sh..t, issuing ultimatums - that's how wars start.

    With all due respect, the sane ones among us don't want any part of that. Have your war (again), watch the destruction, feel sorry for yourself, blame first the demonic 'enemy', then slowly admit that your own leaders were also not that great. Watch your 'allies' use your for their lazy strategic moves, watch them sacrifice you. I would rather have V4 with normal people. There is a zero chance that Ukraine as it is today would be welcomed by us.

  138. Mush, Egor; good mush, but still mush.

  139. @Beckow

    ...Ukraine’s moves seem to be approved if not sanctioned by Washington
     
    Sure. But it is a long way from Washington to the conference table where decisions on EU and V4 are actually made. Ask Turks about how much good did 'approval' from Washington (and London) do when they tried getting into EU. They will be never be allowed in, no matter what NY Times editorials say. Or ask Kosovo. Veto power is not much help when you try to get people to do something.

    Plus, Washington really doesn't care if the sweets are delivered as rewards. They will just shrug their shoulders and blame it on 'nationalism'. After all, the whole Maidan thing was about getting Russians out of Sevastopol and Nato Navy in, it failed, so why reward anyone?

    There are 6-8 states who vote repeatedly for sanctions in order to 'maintain EU unity'. Then they often fly to Moscow to apologize and plead for more business, and they publicly dis-associate themsleves from the 'sanctions'. Is that stable in your mind? Do you really think they have Kiev's back?

    Is that stable in your mind? Do you really think they have Kiev’s back?

    Of course they don’t, and this is why Ukraine doesn’t really look towards Europe for its protection, but rather more towards the US (which has really stepped up its support for Ukraine over the last two years). After receiving the very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status, I really don’t understand what else Ukraine seeks to gain from becoming a full blown member state? But inclusion into an expanded V-4 group makes more and more sense to me, especially after reading AP’s glowing assessments for such a union.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status
     
    What? What has that done for Ukraine? You are really into symbols not reality. US will do nothing for Ukraine, it will push it towards a war, it will push towards a break with Russia, but when the chips are down, it will do nothing. And do you know why? Because it is not in a position to do anything meaningful in that geography. You are fooling yourself.

    V4 s for EU members, it is a peaceful grouping (in spite of our friends in Poland), it will not engage with the mess that is today in Ukraine. You should hear what people say here about the situation in Ukraine, it is pretty damning for Kiev. Have your war, lose it, we don't care...
    , @Gerard2

    After receiving the very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status, I really don’t understand what else Ukraine seeks to gain from becoming a full blown member state?
     
    Exposing yourself as a ftypical emigrant North American fucktard with no interest in Ukraine other then destroying it as part of some anti-Russian project.

    Does your BS about the EU AA even make sense you dumb idiot?
  140. @AP

    Each comes with some serious issues: Ukraine is dysfunctional and chaotic, Romania is – how to say it politely? – well, very ‘Romanian’, and with the Baltics one inherits their absurd linguistic apartheid against Russians, who needs it?
     
    And they come with advantages - you will now have a Bloc of countries with 99% European populations and generally conservative values with more people than any European country, something like France + Germany. And a lot of strategic depth.

    A better way to expand V4 core European area would be to add Austria (I know, tricky), Croatia, Slovenia and the salvageable parts of Germany (east…). Those countries also have more functional economies.
     
    I should have added Croatia and Slovenia to the list. Austria is indeed tricky.

    Lviv is just one city in a large country, Ukraine comes with a lot more baggage and costs than benefits
     
    Currently, yes. The long-term goal should be to convince and help the Ukrainians to fix those problems because a decent Ukraine joining V4 makes V4 much stronger and much more capable of operating independently. Jettisoning Donbas which was the most dysfunctional part, and losing Crimea which is not even Ukrainian ethnically, were good first steps ironically made by the Russians.

    Plus, there seems to be a bizarre multicultural Ukrainian angle with all the ‘suffering Tatars’, Afghani Maidanistas, and the current leadership
     
    Tatars are secular and in 2001 (including Crimea) were .5% of the population. So they are less now. There was a single journalist of Afghani descent heavily involved in Maidan. There is much more of a gypsy problem in V4 than an Islam problem in Ukraine. Actually Ukraine would help dilute V4's serious gypsy problem.

    Poland and its obsessive politics and emotional history are the Achilles heel of V4. Yes, there are a lot of Poles, but V4 without Poland might be better.

     
    Poland is the core of V4. Without Poland you have Czechoslovakia plus Hungary, small helpless countries with no militaries and small economies bound to be totally dependent on their larger neighbors. How did the 1930s-1940s work out for this region? With Poland you at least have something the size of France. With Ukraine, the Baltics, Romania, Croatia, Slovenia you have a true regional power. The long-term strategic goal should be the incorporation of these regions into an expanded V4 that would be a large European homeland.

    To say that countries of V4 have conservative values is absurd. There are no conservative countries anymore.

    To have a conservative country you must have: high religiosity, opposition to divorces, contraception, abortion, casual sex, eroticization of public space, pornography, LGBT movement.

    90% of the things I mentioned don’t exist in V4 on a deeper, which means genuine and real, level. V4 is at core as decadent as the West, only without loud fringe phenomena like the LGBT movement. But the core decadence exists and is developing

    • Replies: @AP

    To say that countries of V4 have conservative values is absurd. There are no conservative countries anymore.

    To have a conservative country you must have: high religiosity, opposition to divorces, contraception, abortion, casual sex, eroticization of public space, pornography, LGBT movement.
     
    Czech Republic is rather liberal. OTOH, Poland's divorce rate of 33% and Slovakia's of 31% are a lot lower than that of western Europe. Poland has almost zero abortions. 42% of Poles attend church weekly - higher than in any other European place (America is 2nd place with 36% weekly attendance).
  141. @AP

    Each comes with some serious issues: Ukraine is dysfunctional and chaotic, Romania is – how to say it politely? – well, very ‘Romanian’, and with the Baltics one inherits their absurd linguistic apartheid against Russians, who needs it?
     
    And they come with advantages - you will now have a Bloc of countries with 99% European populations and generally conservative values with more people than any European country, something like France + Germany. And a lot of strategic depth.

    A better way to expand V4 core European area would be to add Austria (I know, tricky), Croatia, Slovenia and the salvageable parts of Germany (east…). Those countries also have more functional economies.
     
    I should have added Croatia and Slovenia to the list. Austria is indeed tricky.

    Lviv is just one city in a large country, Ukraine comes with a lot more baggage and costs than benefits
     
    Currently, yes. The long-term goal should be to convince and help the Ukrainians to fix those problems because a decent Ukraine joining V4 makes V4 much stronger and much more capable of operating independently. Jettisoning Donbas which was the most dysfunctional part, and losing Crimea which is not even Ukrainian ethnically, were good first steps ironically made by the Russians.

    Plus, there seems to be a bizarre multicultural Ukrainian angle with all the ‘suffering Tatars’, Afghani Maidanistas, and the current leadership
     
    Tatars are secular and in 2001 (including Crimea) were .5% of the population. So they are less now. There was a single journalist of Afghani descent heavily involved in Maidan. There is much more of a gypsy problem in V4 than an Islam problem in Ukraine. Actually Ukraine would help dilute V4's serious gypsy problem.

    Poland and its obsessive politics and emotional history are the Achilles heel of V4. Yes, there are a lot of Poles, but V4 without Poland might be better.

     
    Poland is the core of V4. Without Poland you have Czechoslovakia plus Hungary, small helpless countries with no militaries and small economies bound to be totally dependent on their larger neighbors. How did the 1930s-1940s work out for this region? With Poland you at least have something the size of France. With Ukraine, the Baltics, Romania, Croatia, Slovenia you have a true regional power. The long-term strategic goal should be the incorporation of these regions into an expanded V4 that would be a large European homeland.

    …Czechoslovakia plus Hungary, small helpless countries with no militaries

    We don’t want to have a war, so we really don’t care about the ‘military’! That’s the whole point, and you don’t seem to be getting it.

    Let me put it bluntly: Poland and today’s Ukraine are on a path to war with Russia. We want no part of that, it is the stupidest idea so far in the 21st century. You can argue all you want that you don’t want ‘a war’, or that it won’t happen because blabla… it looks to any rational observer that Poland and Ukraine (and the Baltic states) are inevitably sliding towards a war with Russia. Placing missiles from far away allies on your territory, endless demonization and propaganda, talking sh..t, issuing ultimatums – that’s how wars start.

    With all due respect, the sane ones among us don’t want any part of that. Have your war (again), watch the destruction, feel sorry for yourself, blame first the demonic ‘enemy’, then slowly admit that your own leaders were also not that great. Watch your ‘allies’ use your for their lazy strategic moves, watch them sacrifice you. I would rather have V4 with normal people. There is a zero chance that Ukraine as it is today would be welcomed by us.

    • Replies: @AP

    We don’t want to have a war, so we really don’t care about the ‘military’! That’s the whole point, and you don’t seem to be getting it.
     
    No one wants a war, but if you cannot provide a credible defense than you have no choice but to do what you are told. What do you think the Germans will want you do to and can you say no if you have zero military? Will you stop a wave of migrants with military? Etc. They will be a nice addition to your massive and growing gypsy population.

    How did the 20th century work out for you, with no military deterrent? Without at least Poland you are helpless victims.

    Let me put it bluntly: Poland and today’s Ukraine are on a path to war with Russia.
     
    It will be Russia's choice if it wants to invade. The best deterrent is a strong potential response. So it is good that Poland and Ukraine are building such a deterrent.

    We want no part of that,
     
    "We" - you mean Slovak Sovoks like you? Are there many of you?

    There is a zero chance that Ukraine as it is today would be welcomed by us.
     
    Ukraine as it is today needs to fix its corruption and economy before it can join V4. But this should be the strategic goal.
  142. @Mr. Hack

    Is that stable in your mind? Do you really think they have Kiev’s back?
     
    Of course they don't, and this is why Ukraine doesn't really look towards Europe for its protection, but rather more towards the US (which has really stepped up its support for Ukraine over the last two years). After receiving the very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status, I really don't understand what else Ukraine seeks to gain from becoming a full blown member state? But inclusion into an expanded V-4 group makes more and more sense to me, especially after reading AP's glowing assessments for such a union.

    …very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status

    What? What has that done for Ukraine? You are really into symbols not reality. US will do nothing for Ukraine, it will push it towards a war, it will push towards a break with Russia, but when the chips are down, it will do nothing. And do you know why? Because it is not in a position to do anything meaningful in that geography. You are fooling yourself.

    V4 s for EU members, it is a peaceful grouping (in spite of our friends in Poland), it will not engage with the mess that is today in Ukraine. You should hear what people say here about the situation in Ukraine, it is pretty damning for Kiev. Have your war, lose it, we don’t care…

    • Replies: @AP

    …very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status

    What? What has that done for Ukraine?
     
    Given the country's West the best economy it has ever had.
  143. @Turgot
    To say that countries of V4 have conservative values is absurd. There are no conservative countries anymore.

    To have a conservative country you must have: high religiosity, opposition to divorces, contraception, abortion, casual sex, eroticization of public space, pornography, LGBT movement.

    90% of the things I mentioned don't exist in V4 on a deeper, which means genuine and real, level. V4 is at core as decadent as the West, only without loud fringe phenomena like the LGBT movement. But the core decadence exists and is developing

    To say that countries of V4 have conservative values is absurd. There are no conservative countries anymore.

    To have a conservative country you must have: high religiosity, opposition to divorces, contraception, abortion, casual sex, eroticization of public space, pornography, LGBT movement.

    Czech Republic is rather liberal. OTOH, Poland’s divorce rate of 33% and Slovakia’s of 31% are a lot lower than that of western Europe. Poland has almost zero abortions. 42% of Poles attend church weekly – higher than in any other European place (America is 2nd place with 36% weekly attendance).

    • Replies: @Turgot
    Divorce rate of 33% is sky high and it's higher than Italy's. To say Poland has almost zero abortions is absurd, they're just done in neighbouring countries, though this is just speculation. Just 37% of Poles attend the church and it's falling down.

    You conveniently avoided the issue of contraception, casual sex and pornographization. You have left out the most important issues, so that it fits your nonsense about V4 being "conservative".

    Europe isn't conservative and LGBT movement is exaggerated, while in reality it's really a loud extremity. Being against LGBT doesn't make you a conservative. What makes you a conservative is the approach to so called traditional morality. Most of muslims in Western Europe are more conservative than V4.

    Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia are more or less known porn producers as well.

    , @Gerard2

    Poland’s divorce rate of 33%
     
    Absymally high for a supposedly Catholic country you idiot

    Poland has almost zero abortions. 42% of Poles attend church weekly – higher than in any other European place
     
    candidates for Saints over the years?...practically nil.........as for abortions, one of the worst birth rates in Europe you idiot, Catholic families supposed to not use contraception, but very low number of kids per polish family


    .....that's not even taking into count the fact that there are more Poles in UK prisons then there are Indians or Pakistanis , even though those numbers must thoroughly outweigh those of Poles in Britain.....whose contribution to human traffiking and drugs and other things is significant
  144. @Beckow

    ...Czechoslovakia plus Hungary, small helpless countries with no militaries
     
    We don't want to have a war, so we really don't care about the 'military'! That's the whole point, and you don't seem to be getting it.

    Let me put it bluntly: Poland and today's Ukraine are on a path to war with Russia. We want no part of that, it is the stupidest idea so far in the 21st century. You can argue all you want that you don't want 'a war', or that it won't happen because blabla... it looks to any rational observer that Poland and Ukraine (and the Baltic states) are inevitably sliding towards a war with Russia. Placing missiles from far away allies on your territory, endless demonization and propaganda, talking sh..t, issuing ultimatums - that's how wars start.

    With all due respect, the sane ones among us don't want any part of that. Have your war (again), watch the destruction, feel sorry for yourself, blame first the demonic 'enemy', then slowly admit that your own leaders were also not that great. Watch your 'allies' use your for their lazy strategic moves, watch them sacrifice you. I would rather have V4 with normal people. There is a zero chance that Ukraine as it is today would be welcomed by us.

    We don’t want to have a war, so we really don’t care about the ‘military’! That’s the whole point, and you don’t seem to be getting it.

    No one wants a war, but if you cannot provide a credible defense than you have no choice but to do what you are told. What do you think the Germans will want you do to and can you say no if you have zero military? Will you stop a wave of migrants with military? Etc. They will be a nice addition to your massive and growing gypsy population.

    How did the 20th century work out for you, with no military deterrent? Without at least Poland you are helpless victims.

    Let me put it bluntly: Poland and today’s Ukraine are on a path to war with Russia.

    It will be Russia’s choice if it wants to invade. The best deterrent is a strong potential response. So it is good that Poland and Ukraine are building such a deterrent.

    We want no part of that,

    “We” – you mean Slovak Sovoks like you? Are there many of you?

    There is a zero chance that Ukraine as it is today would be welcomed by us.

    Ukraine as it is today needs to fix its corruption and economy before it can join V4. But this should be the strategic goal.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    …Will you stop a wave of migrants with military?

    All you need is a competent police force. Military doesn’t help much with migrants, other than they can build fences, etc… Migrants are a law-enforcement problem.

    We have in (Cz-S) around 2% gypsy population, about half a fully integrated. They are not massive, you barely see them in the main cities, they are also not growing due to the wonderful escape valve to UK, Belgium – they are way overrepresented among the welfare migrants who take advantage of EU.

    You are unwilling to accept that Ukraine is a mess and that a lot of that mess is self-inflicted. You are also unwilling to accept that others may not share the fanatical anti-Russia paranoia of so many in Poland-Ukraine. Look at Cz-S-Hungarian policies and public opinion – it is nothing like Poland, it is largely neutral between Kiev and Moscow. And there is zero interest in joining some war against the ‘Russkies’. Sort out your own mess, and V4 is for Central Europe, Ukraine is an eastern, Orthodox country (and so is Romania). I see that you want in, but you don’t belong there.

    Finally, I have no idea what a ‘sovok’ is, way before my time, and in other cultures.
  145. @Beckow

    ...very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status
     
    What? What has that done for Ukraine? You are really into symbols not reality. US will do nothing for Ukraine, it will push it towards a war, it will push towards a break with Russia, but when the chips are down, it will do nothing. And do you know why? Because it is not in a position to do anything meaningful in that geography. You are fooling yourself.

    V4 s for EU members, it is a peaceful grouping (in spite of our friends in Poland), it will not engage with the mess that is today in Ukraine. You should hear what people say here about the situation in Ukraine, it is pretty damning for Kiev. Have your war, lose it, we don't care...

    …very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status

    What? What has that done for Ukraine?

    Given the country’s West the best economy it has ever had.

  146. Tarnation. Hack’s Law never fails.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Yeah, imagine posting comments to a thread that deals with Kholmogorov and Russian nationalism something about Ukraine? Utterly bizzare! And when I veer away from the exact topic at hand, and produce a photo of a beautiful musical talent from Minnesota of Scandinavian descent...I get nothing!
    You guys must all be asleep at the wheel, especially Thorfinnsson, who BTW seems to be involved in some Hackitis of his own too, see #147). Here, I'll try to wake you deadbeats up again:

    https://youtu.be/Py59Q5GQe8g?list=PLshrRR6ezanHy609Q4FgSQrI1_gxen_S8

  147. I don’t see the Ukraine getting anywhere with its “ambitions” as things stand today.

    But give it time.

    It’s possible that five years from now the Ukraine will have gotten over Russia and will have a nicely developing economy.

    Biggest problem is that the Ukraine does not appear to be willing to part with the Crimea or the Donets Basin. It’s not possible to recover these territories, and in any case it would not be desirable to recover them as their Russian-majority populations would simply once again weaken and divide the Ukrainian state.

    Second biggest problem is current leadership, which is to put it mildly a total joke.

    Russia has clearly shown that it’s not going to invade the Ukraine barring the USA doing something crazy, which is not in the cards as long as Trump is President.

    Some sort of durable political settlement with Russia might not be possible as long as Putin is in power…or as long as the USA remains an important power in Europe.

  148. @Hyperborean
    Tarnation. Hack's Law never fails.

    Yeah, imagine posting comments to a thread that deals with Kholmogorov and Russian nationalism something about Ukraine? Utterly bizzare! And when I veer away from the exact topic at hand, and produce a photo of a beautiful musical talent from Minnesota of Scandinavian descent…I get nothing!
    You guys must all be asleep at the wheel, especially Thorfinnsson, who BTW seems to be involved in some Hackitis of his own too, see #147). Here, I’ll try to wake you deadbeats up again:

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Be sure to check out 'Stockholm Sweetenin' next. Connie spends some time back in her ancestral homeland. All of the tunes are A1, but especially check out her rendition of 'Besame Mucho', really beautiful........
  149. @Mr. Hack
    Yeah, imagine posting comments to a thread that deals with Kholmogorov and Russian nationalism something about Ukraine? Utterly bizzare! And when I veer away from the exact topic at hand, and produce a photo of a beautiful musical talent from Minnesota of Scandinavian descent...I get nothing!
    You guys must all be asleep at the wheel, especially Thorfinnsson, who BTW seems to be involved in some Hackitis of his own too, see #147). Here, I'll try to wake you deadbeats up again:

    https://youtu.be/Py59Q5GQe8g?list=PLshrRR6ezanHy609Q4FgSQrI1_gxen_S8

    Be sure to check out ‘Stockholm Sweetenin’ next. Connie spends some time back in her ancestral homeland. All of the tunes are A1, but especially check out her rendition of ‘Besame Mucho’, really beautiful……..

  150. @AP

    To say that countries of V4 have conservative values is absurd. There are no conservative countries anymore.

    To have a conservative country you must have: high religiosity, opposition to divorces, contraception, abortion, casual sex, eroticization of public space, pornography, LGBT movement.
     
    Czech Republic is rather liberal. OTOH, Poland's divorce rate of 33% and Slovakia's of 31% are a lot lower than that of western Europe. Poland has almost zero abortions. 42% of Poles attend church weekly - higher than in any other European place (America is 2nd place with 36% weekly attendance).

    Divorce rate of 33% is sky high and it’s higher than Italy’s. To say Poland has almost zero abortions is absurd, they’re just done in neighbouring countries, though this is just speculation. Just 37% of Poles attend the church and it’s falling down.

    You conveniently avoided the issue of contraception, casual sex and pornographization. You have left out the most important issues, so that it fits your nonsense about V4 being “conservative”.

    Europe isn’t conservative and LGBT movement is exaggerated, while in reality it’s really a loud extremity. Being against LGBT doesn’t make you a conservative. What makes you a conservative is the approach to so called traditional morality. Most of muslims in Western Europe are more conservative than V4.

    Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia are more or less known porn producers as well.

  151. @Mr. Hack
    Even still, not one single East European country has ever applied for membership into any Russian led economic union, military alliance, etc; but on the contrary have all applied for EU or NATO membership. I wonder why this is so, Mr. Smart guy? These countries must all be living under false pretenses and only somebody like yourself sees the bright light of the future? :-)

    Even still, not one single East European country has ever applied for membership into any Russian led economic union, military alliance, etc; but on the contrary have all applied for EU or NATO membership. I wonder why this is so, Mr. Smart guy? These countries must all be living under false pretenses and only somebody like yourself sees the bright light of the future?

    errr….Belarus you dumb fucktard, those other eastern european countries also applied for membership of those those EU/NATO organisations before 2004, when not in dispute that the security and living standards were much better in all the European Union than in Russia you dumb fuck. As Ukraine was the fastest growing economy in Europe in 2004 , due entirely to the remergence of Russia…they then fuckedup ( well their corrupt American paid elites did) as the Orange Revolution was a farce that should never have happened as Yanukovich won that fairly you idiot.

    Tangible results under the Presidency of VVP didn’t start to be felt until 2003-2004 you tramp

  152. @Mr. Hack

    Is that stable in your mind? Do you really think they have Kiev’s back?
     
    Of course they don't, and this is why Ukraine doesn't really look towards Europe for its protection, but rather more towards the US (which has really stepped up its support for Ukraine over the last two years). After receiving the very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status, I really don't understand what else Ukraine seeks to gain from becoming a full blown member state? But inclusion into an expanded V-4 group makes more and more sense to me, especially after reading AP's glowing assessments for such a union.

    After receiving the very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status, I really don’t understand what else Ukraine seeks to gain from becoming a full blown member state?

    Exposing yourself as a ftypical emigrant North American fucktard with no interest in Ukraine other then destroying it as part of some anti-Russian project.

    Does your BS about the EU AA even make sense you dumb idiot?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Such unresolved angst...I would suggest that you up your ante of stoli and then go sleep it off. :-(
  153. @AP

    To say that countries of V4 have conservative values is absurd. There are no conservative countries anymore.

    To have a conservative country you must have: high religiosity, opposition to divorces, contraception, abortion, casual sex, eroticization of public space, pornography, LGBT movement.
     
    Czech Republic is rather liberal. OTOH, Poland's divorce rate of 33% and Slovakia's of 31% are a lot lower than that of western Europe. Poland has almost zero abortions. 42% of Poles attend church weekly - higher than in any other European place (America is 2nd place with 36% weekly attendance).

    Poland’s divorce rate of 33%

    Absymally high for a supposedly Catholic country you idiot

    Poland has almost zero abortions. 42% of Poles attend church weekly – higher than in any other European place

    candidates for Saints over the years?…practically nil………as for abortions, one of the worst birth rates in Europe you idiot, Catholic families supposed to not use contraception, but very low number of kids per polish family

    …..that’s not even taking into count the fact that there are more Poles in UK prisons then there are Indians or Pakistanis , even though those numbers must thoroughly outweigh those of Poles in Britain…..whose contribution to human traffiking and drugs and other things is significant

    • Replies: @DFH

    …..that’s not even taking into count the fact that there are more Poles in UK prisons then there are Indians or Pakistanis , even though those numbers must thoroughly outweigh those of Poles in Britain…..whose contribution to human traffiking and drugs and other things is significant
     
    Not true at all. 9% of the foreign born prison population (which is itself 11% of the total) are Poles, whereas 8% of the total population are Asian (meaning Indian/Pakistani/Bengali).
  154. @Gerard2

    After receiving the very coveted EU economic Associate Agreement status, I really don’t understand what else Ukraine seeks to gain from becoming a full blown member state?
     
    Exposing yourself as a ftypical emigrant North American fucktard with no interest in Ukraine other then destroying it as part of some anti-Russian project.

    Does your BS about the EU AA even make sense you dumb idiot?

    Such unresolved angst…I would suggest that you up your ante of stoli and then go sleep it off. 🙁

  155. @Gerard2

    Poland’s divorce rate of 33%
     
    Absymally high for a supposedly Catholic country you idiot

    Poland has almost zero abortions. 42% of Poles attend church weekly – higher than in any other European place
     
    candidates for Saints over the years?...practically nil.........as for abortions, one of the worst birth rates in Europe you idiot, Catholic families supposed to not use contraception, but very low number of kids per polish family


    .....that's not even taking into count the fact that there are more Poles in UK prisons then there are Indians or Pakistanis , even though those numbers must thoroughly outweigh those of Poles in Britain.....whose contribution to human traffiking and drugs and other things is significant

    …..that’s not even taking into count the fact that there are more Poles in UK prisons then there are Indians or Pakistanis , even though those numbers must thoroughly outweigh those of Poles in Britain…..whose contribution to human traffiking and drugs and other things is significant

    Not true at all. 9% of the foreign born prison population (which is itself 11% of the total) are Poles, whereas 8% of the total population are Asian (meaning Indian/Pakistani/Bengali).

  156. @AP

    We don’t want to have a war, so we really don’t care about the ‘military’! That’s the whole point, and you don’t seem to be getting it.
     
    No one wants a war, but if you cannot provide a credible defense than you have no choice but to do what you are told. What do you think the Germans will want you do to and can you say no if you have zero military? Will you stop a wave of migrants with military? Etc. They will be a nice addition to your massive and growing gypsy population.

    How did the 20th century work out for you, with no military deterrent? Without at least Poland you are helpless victims.

    Let me put it bluntly: Poland and today’s Ukraine are on a path to war with Russia.
     
    It will be Russia's choice if it wants to invade. The best deterrent is a strong potential response. So it is good that Poland and Ukraine are building such a deterrent.

    We want no part of that,
     
    "We" - you mean Slovak Sovoks like you? Are there many of you?

    There is a zero chance that Ukraine as it is today would be welcomed by us.
     
    Ukraine as it is today needs to fix its corruption and economy before it can join V4. But this should be the strategic goal.

    …Will you stop a wave of migrants with military?

    All you need is a competent police force. Military doesn’t help much with migrants, other than they can build fences, etc… Migrants are a law-enforcement problem.

    We have in (Cz-S) around 2% gypsy population, about half a fully integrated. They are not massive, you barely see them in the main cities, they are also not growing due to the wonderful escape valve to UK, Belgium – they are way overrepresented among the welfare migrants who take advantage of EU.

    You are unwilling to accept that Ukraine is a mess and that a lot of that mess is self-inflicted. You are also unwilling to accept that others may not share the fanatical anti-Russia paranoia of so many in Poland-Ukraine. Look at Cz-S-Hungarian policies and public opinion – it is nothing like Poland, it is largely neutral between Kiev and Moscow. And there is zero interest in joining some war against the ‘Russkies’. Sort out your own mess, and V4 is for Central Europe, Ukraine is an eastern, Orthodox country (and so is Romania). I see that you want in, but you don’t belong there.

    Finally, I have no idea what a ‘sovok’ is, way before my time, and in other cultures.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    The military can attack migrants with machine guns, artillery, flamethrowers, tanks, bombs, rockets, and also nuclear weapons. Their construction capabilities are also ideal for building field fortifications that carefully funnel migrants into kill zones where they can be quickly obliterated with heavy weaponry.

    Seems very useful to me.
  157. @Beckow
    …Will you stop a wave of migrants with military?

    All you need is a competent police force. Military doesn’t help much with migrants, other than they can build fences, etc… Migrants are a law-enforcement problem.

    We have in (Cz-S) around 2% gypsy population, about half a fully integrated. They are not massive, you barely see them in the main cities, they are also not growing due to the wonderful escape valve to UK, Belgium – they are way overrepresented among the welfare migrants who take advantage of EU.

    You are unwilling to accept that Ukraine is a mess and that a lot of that mess is self-inflicted. You are also unwilling to accept that others may not share the fanatical anti-Russia paranoia of so many in Poland-Ukraine. Look at Cz-S-Hungarian policies and public opinion – it is nothing like Poland, it is largely neutral between Kiev and Moscow. And there is zero interest in joining some war against the ‘Russkies’. Sort out your own mess, and V4 is for Central Europe, Ukraine is an eastern, Orthodox country (and so is Romania). I see that you want in, but you don’t belong there.

    Finally, I have no idea what a ‘sovok’ is, way before my time, and in other cultures.

    The military can attack migrants with machine guns, artillery, flamethrowers, tanks, bombs, rockets, and also nuclear weapons. Their construction capabilities are also ideal for building field fortifications that carefully funnel migrants into kill zones where they can be quickly obliterated with heavy weaponry.

    Seems very useful to me.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...The military can attack migrants with machine guns, artillery, flamethrowers, tanks, bombs, rockets, and also nuclear weapons.
     
    Preferably while they are still in their home countries. Once close up, or even actually in the Western cities, it is more tricky - there would be too many phone videos.

    Another simple solution would be to cut-off the medical-technological aid to the places that are trying to flood the West with surplus migrants - kind of the exact opposite of the insane Gates foundation 'humanitarian' initiatives. And then just wait.

    But I suspect aging spinsters and their low-testosterone boy-toys would riot and bore us to death with deeply-felt speechifying (insert Macron with his wife for a proper visual...).
    , @Mr. Hack
    After reading this comment of yours, I couldn't help thinking about Ron Unz' latest admonition to his fellow alt righters, when he goes on and dissects some pretty lame ideas put out there as being 'nonsense...ridiculous...crazy'. I mean really, what were you thinking? Are we to drop a nuclear bomb on an encampment (a small one, at least) of gypsys outside the gates of Vienna? Europe nor the US didn't always have such disastrous immigration laws as today blighting the landscape. Getting back to reasonable laws and the enforcement of such shouldn't be an impossible task? How about just a good old fashioned cost/risk analysis of current immigation policy to start with? Sure beats dropping nuclear weapons or even sentencing lobbyists to 'death sentences'?
    , @songbird
    I actually kind of like the idea of using one of those small bazooka-type nukes on a caravan or a flotilla. Not without warning - of course! But what has better signalling value than nukes? It strikes me as a good use of manpower.
  158. @Thorfinnsson
    The military can attack migrants with machine guns, artillery, flamethrowers, tanks, bombs, rockets, and also nuclear weapons. Their construction capabilities are also ideal for building field fortifications that carefully funnel migrants into kill zones where they can be quickly obliterated with heavy weaponry.

    Seems very useful to me.

    …The military can attack migrants with machine guns, artillery, flamethrowers, tanks, bombs, rockets, and also nuclear weapons.

    Preferably while they are still in their home countries. Once close up, or even actually in the Western cities, it is more tricky – there would be too many phone videos.

    Another simple solution would be to cut-off the medical-technological aid to the places that are trying to flood the West with surplus migrants – kind of the exact opposite of the insane Gates foundation ‘humanitarian‘ initiatives. And then just wait.

    But I suspect aging spinsters and their low-testosterone boy-toys would riot and bore us to death with deeply-felt speechifying (insert Macron with his wife for a proper visual…).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    It would already go far to abolish the right to asylum, stop welfare payments to illegal immigrants and make transfer of remittances to home countries harder. Instead of facilitating mass immigration at every level and even signing a monstrosity as this UN global compact for migration, which is what Western elites actually are doing.
    It's not like there is some unstoppable invasion that could only be stopped by machine-gunning the advancing colored hordes, sinking their boats etc. The fundamental problem is that powerful forces within Western countries want this migration to happen.
  159. @Beckow

    ...The military can attack migrants with machine guns, artillery, flamethrowers, tanks, bombs, rockets, and also nuclear weapons.
     
    Preferably while they are still in their home countries. Once close up, or even actually in the Western cities, it is more tricky - there would be too many phone videos.

    Another simple solution would be to cut-off the medical-technological aid to the places that are trying to flood the West with surplus migrants - kind of the exact opposite of the insane Gates foundation 'humanitarian' initiatives. And then just wait.

    But I suspect aging spinsters and their low-testosterone boy-toys would riot and bore us to death with deeply-felt speechifying (insert Macron with his wife for a proper visual...).

    It would already go far to abolish the right to asylum, stop welfare payments to illegal immigrants and make transfer of remittances to home countries harder. Instead of facilitating mass immigration at every level and even signing a monstrosity as this UN global compact for migration, which is what Western elites actually are doing.
    It’s not like there is some unstoppable invasion that could only be stopped by machine-gunning the advancing colored hordes, sinking their boats etc. The fundamental problem is that powerful forces within Western countries want this migration to happen.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    It seems to me that it might be prudent to take some measures beyond our countries itself.

    For instance, it hardly benefits Europe if North Africa becomes overrun by black African migrants. Likewise the United States doesn't benefit if Mexico becomes destabilized by Central American migrants (overrun less likely in this case admittedly).

    Berlusconi already pioneered a policy of paying Libya to prevent an influx of blacks into Italy. But as soon as Italy collapsed, many of the blacks already in Libya (whom Gaddafi invited for foreign policy reasons I don't entirely understand) rushed into Europe.

    North African countries have fewer resources and organizational capacity than Europe. It would probably be a good idea to assist them in the development and organization of frontier fortifications and border police.

    Similarly in the American context I've suggested before that assisting Mexico in constructing a wall on its southern border is a good idea (and would apparently be popular in Mexico itself to judge by the attacks on the "caravan" in Tijuana). It's less of a priority of course since Mexico has almost three times Central America's population and its frontier with Central America is narrow.

    Your measures also wouldn't eliminate the problem of immigration for work. Poland is set to start importing Filipino "guest" workers soon for instance.
    , @Beckow

    ...powerful forces within Western countries want this migration to happen.
     
    There are the business-cheap labor forces, the parasites among legal profession/social sector/NGO's, the ethnic and religious lobbies, and the elderly lonely ladies who are just that way - quite a coalition. They will never stop on their own.

    I am skeptical about the proposed solutions:

    abolish the right to asylum, stop welfare payments to illegal immigrants and make transfer of remittances to home countries harder
     
    It would make it slightly better, but not by much. Asylum is obviously a joke and yet without actual consequences (forced removals), changing laws wouldn't do much. Welfare comes in many forms, e.g. free education, medical care and housing (even in 'camps') is hard to stop. There is also a nugget of truth in liberal claim that without welfare the migrants would turn even more to crime.

    This is not easy - the people who have done this for the last few decades should be held responsible.
  160. @German_reader
    It would already go far to abolish the right to asylum, stop welfare payments to illegal immigrants and make transfer of remittances to home countries harder. Instead of facilitating mass immigration at every level and even signing a monstrosity as this UN global compact for migration, which is what Western elites actually are doing.
    It's not like there is some unstoppable invasion that could only be stopped by machine-gunning the advancing colored hordes, sinking their boats etc. The fundamental problem is that powerful forces within Western countries want this migration to happen.

    It seems to me that it might be prudent to take some measures beyond our countries itself.

    For instance, it hardly benefits Europe if North Africa becomes overrun by black African migrants. Likewise the United States doesn’t benefit if Mexico becomes destabilized by Central American migrants (overrun less likely in this case admittedly).

    Berlusconi already pioneered a policy of paying Libya to prevent an influx of blacks into Italy. But as soon as Italy collapsed, many of the blacks already in Libya (whom Gaddafi invited for foreign policy reasons I don’t entirely understand) rushed into Europe.

    North African countries have fewer resources and organizational capacity than Europe. It would probably be a good idea to assist them in the development and organization of frontier fortifications and border police.

    Similarly in the American context I’ve suggested before that assisting Mexico in constructing a wall on its southern border is a good idea (and would apparently be popular in Mexico itself to judge by the attacks on the “caravan” in Tijuana). It’s less of a priority of course since Mexico has almost three times Central America’s population and its frontier with Central America is narrow.

    Your measures also wouldn’t eliminate the problem of immigration for work. Poland is set to start importing Filipino “guest” workers soon for instance.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    Of course, training and material support for the border forces of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia etc. would be a good idea. They also need to be forced though to take back their own citizens which are illegally in Europe.

    Your measures also wouldn’t eliminate the problem of immigration for work.
     
    The best solution imo would be a few show trials for pro-immigration business lobbyists, ending in death sentences.
    That's unlikely of course, but there are many possible regulations to restrict the access of undesirable foreigners to the labor market. This too is merely a question of political will; unfortunately the trend in Germany is pointing the opposite way now (with new immigration laws set to increase non-European immigration because of an alleged shortage in skilled workers, elimination of preferences for EU citizens, and plenty of easily exploitable loopholes that will allow illegal immigrants to regularize their status).
    , @DFH
    The Economist has been really pushing the need for Hungary to import migrants to fill their labour shortages recently (particularly for foreign owned companies).
  161. @Thorfinnsson
    It seems to me that it might be prudent to take some measures beyond our countries itself.

    For instance, it hardly benefits Europe if North Africa becomes overrun by black African migrants. Likewise the United States doesn't benefit if Mexico becomes destabilized by Central American migrants (overrun less likely in this case admittedly).

    Berlusconi already pioneered a policy of paying Libya to prevent an influx of blacks into Italy. But as soon as Italy collapsed, many of the blacks already in Libya (whom Gaddafi invited for foreign policy reasons I don't entirely understand) rushed into Europe.

    North African countries have fewer resources and organizational capacity than Europe. It would probably be a good idea to assist them in the development and organization of frontier fortifications and border police.

    Similarly in the American context I've suggested before that assisting Mexico in constructing a wall on its southern border is a good idea (and would apparently be popular in Mexico itself to judge by the attacks on the "caravan" in Tijuana). It's less of a priority of course since Mexico has almost three times Central America's population and its frontier with Central America is narrow.

    Your measures also wouldn't eliminate the problem of immigration for work. Poland is set to start importing Filipino "guest" workers soon for instance.

    Of course, training and material support for the border forces of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia etc. would be a good idea. They also need to be forced though to take back their own citizens which are illegally in Europe.

    Your measures also wouldn’t eliminate the problem of immigration for work.

    The best solution imo would be a few show trials for pro-immigration business lobbyists, ending in death sentences.
    That’s unlikely of course, but there are many possible regulations to restrict the access of undesirable foreigners to the labor market. This too is merely a question of political will; unfortunately the trend in Germany is pointing the opposite way now (with new immigration laws set to increase non-European immigration because of an alleged shortage in skilled workers, elimination of preferences for EU citizens, and plenty of easily exploitable loopholes that will allow illegal immigrants to regularize their status).

  162. @Thorfinnsson
    It seems to me that it might be prudent to take some measures beyond our countries itself.

    For instance, it hardly benefits Europe if North Africa becomes overrun by black African migrants. Likewise the United States doesn't benefit if Mexico becomes destabilized by Central American migrants (overrun less likely in this case admittedly).

    Berlusconi already pioneered a policy of paying Libya to prevent an influx of blacks into Italy. But as soon as Italy collapsed, many of the blacks already in Libya (whom Gaddafi invited for foreign policy reasons I don't entirely understand) rushed into Europe.

    North African countries have fewer resources and organizational capacity than Europe. It would probably be a good idea to assist them in the development and organization of frontier fortifications and border police.

    Similarly in the American context I've suggested before that assisting Mexico in constructing a wall on its southern border is a good idea (and would apparently be popular in Mexico itself to judge by the attacks on the "caravan" in Tijuana). It's less of a priority of course since Mexico has almost three times Central America's population and its frontier with Central America is narrow.

    Your measures also wouldn't eliminate the problem of immigration for work. Poland is set to start importing Filipino "guest" workers soon for instance.

    The Economist has been really pushing the need for Hungary to import migrants to fill their labour shortages recently (particularly for foreign owned companies).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    This is behind the “slave law” to increase overtime for the benefit of the foreign companies.
  163. @German_reader
    It would already go far to abolish the right to asylum, stop welfare payments to illegal immigrants and make transfer of remittances to home countries harder. Instead of facilitating mass immigration at every level and even signing a monstrosity as this UN global compact for migration, which is what Western elites actually are doing.
    It's not like there is some unstoppable invasion that could only be stopped by machine-gunning the advancing colored hordes, sinking their boats etc. The fundamental problem is that powerful forces within Western countries want this migration to happen.

    …powerful forces within Western countries want this migration to happen.

    There are the business-cheap labor forces, the parasites among legal profession/social sector/NGO’s, the ethnic and religious lobbies, and the elderly lonely ladies who are just that way – quite a coalition. They will never stop on their own.

    I am skeptical about the proposed solutions:

    abolish the right to asylum, stop welfare payments to illegal immigrants and make transfer of remittances to home countries harder

    It would make it slightly better, but not by much. Asylum is obviously a joke and yet without actual consequences (forced removals), changing laws wouldn’t do much. Welfare comes in many forms, e.g. free education, medical care and housing (even in ‘camps’) is hard to stop. There is also a nugget of truth in liberal claim that without welfare the migrants would turn even more to crime.

    This is not easy – the people who have done this for the last few decades should be held responsible.

  164. @DFH
    The Economist has been really pushing the need for Hungary to import migrants to fill their labour shortages recently (particularly for foreign owned companies).

    This is behind the “slave law” to increase overtime for the benefit of the foreign companies.

  165. @Thorfinnsson
    The military can attack migrants with machine guns, artillery, flamethrowers, tanks, bombs, rockets, and also nuclear weapons. Their construction capabilities are also ideal for building field fortifications that carefully funnel migrants into kill zones where they can be quickly obliterated with heavy weaponry.

    Seems very useful to me.

    After reading this comment of yours, I couldn’t help thinking about Ron Unz’ latest admonition to his fellow alt righters, when he goes on and dissects some pretty lame ideas put out there as being ‘nonsense…ridiculous…crazy’. I mean really, what were you thinking? Are we to drop a nuclear bomb on an encampment (a small one, at least) of gypsys outside the gates of Vienna? Europe nor the US didn’t always have such disastrous immigration laws as today blighting the landscape. Getting back to reasonable laws and the enforcement of such shouldn’t be an impossible task? How about just a good old fashioned cost/risk analysis of current immigation policy to start with? Sure beats dropping nuclear weapons or even sentencing lobbyists to ‘death sentences’?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Are you now German_reader? Do you think that comment was a serious policy suggestion?

    It would be appropriate to apply such measures...if they were absolutely necessary. But they'd only be absolutely necessary if the "immigrants" were wearing uniforms and carrying weapons. You know, like how Russians "emigrated" to the Crimea in 2014.

    Obviously immigration control is a law enforcement mission, not a military one. Perhaps some paramilitary elements--e.g. in Europe it would be appropriate to sink the boats. It's not even worth shooting the coyotes, because you're better off capturing them to get intelligence. That requires small arms and explosives, but not exactly Eurofighter Typhoons and Type 212 U-boats.

    The only role of the military in immigration policy is when the home countries of illegal aliens refuse to take back their nationals. And even in that case there are many policy levers that can be used prior to threatening said countries with military force.

    What was I thinking? That the idea of attacking orc hordes with nuclear weapons is inherently funny.
  166. @Mr. Hack
    After reading this comment of yours, I couldn't help thinking about Ron Unz' latest admonition to his fellow alt righters, when he goes on and dissects some pretty lame ideas put out there as being 'nonsense...ridiculous...crazy'. I mean really, what were you thinking? Are we to drop a nuclear bomb on an encampment (a small one, at least) of gypsys outside the gates of Vienna? Europe nor the US didn't always have such disastrous immigration laws as today blighting the landscape. Getting back to reasonable laws and the enforcement of such shouldn't be an impossible task? How about just a good old fashioned cost/risk analysis of current immigation policy to start with? Sure beats dropping nuclear weapons or even sentencing lobbyists to 'death sentences'?

    Are you now German_reader? Do you think that comment was a serious policy suggestion?

    It would be appropriate to apply such measures…if they were absolutely necessary. But they’d only be absolutely necessary if the “immigrants” were wearing uniforms and carrying weapons. You know, like how Russians “emigrated” to the Crimea in 2014.

    Obviously immigration control is a law enforcement mission, not a military one. Perhaps some paramilitary elements–e.g. in Europe it would be appropriate to sink the boats. It’s not even worth shooting the coyotes, because you’re better off capturing them to get intelligence. That requires small arms and explosives, but not exactly Eurofighter Typhoons and Type 212 U-boats.

    The only role of the military in immigration policy is when the home countries of illegal aliens refuse to take back their nationals. And even in that case there are many policy levers that can be used prior to threatening said countries with military force.

    What was I thinking? That the idea of attacking orc hordes with nuclear weapons is inherently funny.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Well, since so many alt right views have to be taken with a grain of salt, as Ron Unz points out, perhaps in the future when you're offering a cynical reply, you may want to add a smiley face or something that might identify it as so (for those of us that are a wee bit slow). Merry Christmas! :-)
  167. @Thorfinnsson
    Are you now German_reader? Do you think that comment was a serious policy suggestion?

    It would be appropriate to apply such measures...if they were absolutely necessary. But they'd only be absolutely necessary if the "immigrants" were wearing uniforms and carrying weapons. You know, like how Russians "emigrated" to the Crimea in 2014.

    Obviously immigration control is a law enforcement mission, not a military one. Perhaps some paramilitary elements--e.g. in Europe it would be appropriate to sink the boats. It's not even worth shooting the coyotes, because you're better off capturing them to get intelligence. That requires small arms and explosives, but not exactly Eurofighter Typhoons and Type 212 U-boats.

    The only role of the military in immigration policy is when the home countries of illegal aliens refuse to take back their nationals. And even in that case there are many policy levers that can be used prior to threatening said countries with military force.

    What was I thinking? That the idea of attacking orc hordes with nuclear weapons is inherently funny.

    Well, since so many alt right views have to be taken with a grain of salt, as Ron Unz points out, perhaps in the future when you’re offering a cynical reply, you may want to add a smiley face or something that might identify it as so (for those of us that are a wee bit slow). Merry Christmas! 🙂

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Ron Unz didn't really point that out. His POV is that the alt right is incorrect about hispanics, and that this is the reason Silicon Valley is censoring us. His view (on the latter) is complete nonsense, and he's simply projecting his own expertise about hispanics onto Silicon Valley. This is easy to discover simply by looking at the situation in Europe, where the same sort of censorship is applied but referencing the objectively much worse Mohammedans.

    A good example of where alt right "views" should be taken with a grain of salt is Andrew Anglin's Daily Stormer.
  168. @Mr. Hack
    Well, since so many alt right views have to be taken with a grain of salt, as Ron Unz points out, perhaps in the future when you're offering a cynical reply, you may want to add a smiley face or something that might identify it as so (for those of us that are a wee bit slow). Merry Christmas! :-)

    Ron Unz didn’t really point that out. His POV is that the alt right is incorrect about hispanics, and that this is the reason Silicon Valley is censoring us. His view (on the latter) is complete nonsense, and he’s simply projecting his own expertise about hispanics onto Silicon Valley. This is easy to discover simply by looking at the situation in Europe, where the same sort of censorship is applied but referencing the objectively much worse Mohammedans.

    A good example of where alt right “views” should be taken with a grain of salt is Andrew Anglin’s Daily Stormer.

  169. Why do you find his views about Hispanics, which you identify as an ‘expertise’ to be wrong? He’s made some valid points reviewing and knocking down Hispanic crime statistics in California, I remember reading in some of his earlier pieces..

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I didn't say he's wrong about hispanics.

    I said he's wrong about this being the reason that Silicon Valley censors us.


    His POV is that the alt right is incorrect about hispanics, and that this is the reason Silicon Valley is censoring us. His view (on the latter) is complete nonsense, and he’s simply projecting his own expertise about hispanics onto Silicon Valley.
     
  170. @Mr. Hack
    Why do you find his views about Hispanics, which you identify as an 'expertise' to be wrong? He's made some valid points reviewing and knocking down Hispanic crime statistics in California, I remember reading in some of his earlier pieces..

    I didn’t say he’s wrong about hispanics.

    I said he’s wrong about this being the reason that Silicon Valley censors us.

    His POV is that the alt right is incorrect about hispanics, and that this is the reason Silicon Valley is censoring us. His view (on the latter) is complete nonsense, and he’s simply projecting his own expertise about hispanics onto Silicon Valley.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    I understood your reply, and was really wondering why that you think that his views about Silicon Valley vis-a-vis Hispanics is wrongly used to censure right-altists?
  171. @Thorfinnsson
    I didn't say he's wrong about hispanics.

    I said he's wrong about this being the reason that Silicon Valley censors us.


    His POV is that the alt right is incorrect about hispanics, and that this is the reason Silicon Valley is censoring us. His view (on the latter) is complete nonsense, and he’s simply projecting his own expertise about hispanics onto Silicon Valley.
     

    I understood your reply, and was really wondering why that you think that his views about Silicon Valley vis-a-vis Hispanics is wrongly used to censure right-altists?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    They obviously don't hate us because we (or many of us anyway) think hispanics are more criminal than they actually are. Ron Unz (and Fred Reed) is simply frustrated about this issue, having looked into it deeply.

    If the alt right had a straight Unz-Reed party line on hispanics, we'd still have the exact same problem with Silicon Valley (though perhaps we'd make some inroads with hispanics themselves, especially Tejans).

    As an example they think it's terribly evil that Breitbart once had a section devoted to "black crime", a major problem which is empirically verifiable and something which nearly all people know to be true.

    See this pearl clutching Buzzfeed piece from 2015 for instance: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/here-are-some-of-the-most-controversial-stories-published-by

    Note that not a single example is even about hispanics. As Steve Sailer often points out, people are generally bored by hispanics. The alt right got hispanics partially wrong probably because Americans are so used to dealing with blacks. This made it easy to assume that another inferior race is equally troublesome, which is simply not the case.

    This probably has to do with some of Unz's own personal frustrations. He himself is now excluded from polite society (whereas he was once viewed as a potential future Governor or Senator), and perhaps he thinks that if only we on the alt right believed the same things he did about hispanics then he would once again be welcome and people would start wondering if the Holocaust really happened as we were told.

    Dream on Ron LOL
  172. @Mr. Hack
    I understood your reply, and was really wondering why that you think that his views about Silicon Valley vis-a-vis Hispanics is wrongly used to censure right-altists?

    They obviously don’t hate us because we (or many of us anyway) think hispanics are more criminal than they actually are. Ron Unz (and Fred Reed) is simply frustrated about this issue, having looked into it deeply.

    If the alt right had a straight Unz-Reed party line on hispanics, we’d still have the exact same problem with Silicon Valley (though perhaps we’d make some inroads with hispanics themselves, especially Tejans).

    As an example they think it’s terribly evil that Breitbart once had a section devoted to “black crime”, a major problem which is empirically verifiable and something which nearly all people know to be true.

    See this pearl clutching Buzzfeed piece from 2015 for instance: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/here-are-some-of-the-most-controversial-stories-published-by

    Note that not a single example is even about hispanics. As Steve Sailer often points out, people are generally bored by hispanics. The alt right got hispanics partially wrong probably because Americans are so used to dealing with blacks. This made it easy to assume that another inferior race is equally troublesome, which is simply not the case.

    This probably has to do with some of Unz’s own personal frustrations. He himself is now excluded from polite society (whereas he was once viewed as a potential future Governor or Senator), and perhaps he thinks that if only we on the alt right believed the same things he did about hispanics then he would once again be welcome and people would start wondering if the Holocaust really happened as we were told.

    Dream on Ron LOL

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    So how exactly do your views about Hispanics actually diverge from Ron Unz's?
  173. @Thorfinnsson
    They obviously don't hate us because we (or many of us anyway) think hispanics are more criminal than they actually are. Ron Unz (and Fred Reed) is simply frustrated about this issue, having looked into it deeply.

    If the alt right had a straight Unz-Reed party line on hispanics, we'd still have the exact same problem with Silicon Valley (though perhaps we'd make some inroads with hispanics themselves, especially Tejans).

    As an example they think it's terribly evil that Breitbart once had a section devoted to "black crime", a major problem which is empirically verifiable and something which nearly all people know to be true.

    See this pearl clutching Buzzfeed piece from 2015 for instance: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/here-are-some-of-the-most-controversial-stories-published-by

    Note that not a single example is even about hispanics. As Steve Sailer often points out, people are generally bored by hispanics. The alt right got hispanics partially wrong probably because Americans are so used to dealing with blacks. This made it easy to assume that another inferior race is equally troublesome, which is simply not the case.

    This probably has to do with some of Unz's own personal frustrations. He himself is now excluded from polite society (whereas he was once viewed as a potential future Governor or Senator), and perhaps he thinks that if only we on the alt right believed the same things he did about hispanics then he would once again be welcome and people would start wondering if the Holocaust really happened as we were told.

    Dream on Ron LOL

    So how exactly do your views about Hispanics actually diverge from Ron Unz’s?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Not dramatically. His thesis about their criminality, or rather lack thereof, is broadly correct. Functionally hispanics are shorter, uglier, and duller versions of the white working class.

    The problems caused by hispanics are political, cultural, and aesthetic. These problems, other than the aesthetic one, aren't dramatic and can be solved. And the aesthetic one isn't something someone with Ron Unz's temperament would consider a valid political issue.
  174. @Thorfinnsson
    The military can attack migrants with machine guns, artillery, flamethrowers, tanks, bombs, rockets, and also nuclear weapons. Their construction capabilities are also ideal for building field fortifications that carefully funnel migrants into kill zones where they can be quickly obliterated with heavy weaponry.

    Seems very useful to me.

    I actually kind of like the idea of using one of those small bazooka-type nukes on a caravan or a flotilla. Not without warning – of course! But what has better signalling value than nukes? It strikes me as a good use of manpower.

    • Replies: @DFH
    Your population living near the border would also get a free radiation hormesis treatment
  175. @Mr. Hack
    So how exactly do your views about Hispanics actually diverge from Ron Unz's?

    Not dramatically. His thesis about their criminality, or rather lack thereof, is broadly correct. Functionally hispanics are shorter, uglier, and duller versions of the white working class.

    The problems caused by hispanics are political, cultural, and aesthetic. These problems, other than the aesthetic one, aren’t dramatic and can be solved. And the aesthetic one isn’t something someone with Ron Unz’s temperament would consider a valid political issue.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Sounds like you have a derogatory view of Hispanic culture? Why? It's really quite an interesting culture. Some of the greatest musicians and possibly painters in the 20th century are of Hispanic origin. Writers too, I am told. Of course I'm widening my horizon to South America too (these Mestizo cultures are all rather related). At the folk level, it's hard to beat a good Mariachi band, and when it comes to pure Indian culture, just visit the Museum Antropologia in Mexico City for some real jaw dropping world cultural artifacts.
  176. @songbird
    I actually kind of like the idea of using one of those small bazooka-type nukes on a caravan or a flotilla. Not without warning - of course! But what has better signalling value than nukes? It strikes me as a good use of manpower.

    Your population living near the border would also get a free radiation hormesis treatment

    • Agree: songbird
  177. @Thorfinnsson
    Not dramatically. His thesis about their criminality, or rather lack thereof, is broadly correct. Functionally hispanics are shorter, uglier, and duller versions of the white working class.

    The problems caused by hispanics are political, cultural, and aesthetic. These problems, other than the aesthetic one, aren't dramatic and can be solved. And the aesthetic one isn't something someone with Ron Unz's temperament would consider a valid political issue.

    Sounds like you have a derogatory view of Hispanic culture? Why? It’s really quite an interesting culture. Some of the greatest musicians and possibly painters in the 20th century are of Hispanic origin. Writers too, I am told. Of course I’m widening my horizon to South America too (these Mestizo cultures are all rather related). At the folk level, it’s hard to beat a good Mariachi band, and when it comes to pure Indian culture, just visit the Museum Antropologia in Mexico City for some real jaw dropping world cultural artifacts.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Latin American culture is fun, but not exactly impressive. Then there's the fact that hispanics are extremely loud, litter a lot, and worst of all--papist.
  178. @Mr. Hack
    Sounds like you have a derogatory view of Hispanic culture? Why? It's really quite an interesting culture. Some of the greatest musicians and possibly painters in the 20th century are of Hispanic origin. Writers too, I am told. Of course I'm widening my horizon to South America too (these Mestizo cultures are all rather related). At the folk level, it's hard to beat a good Mariachi band, and when it comes to pure Indian culture, just visit the Museum Antropologia in Mexico City for some real jaw dropping world cultural artifacts.

    Latin American culture is fun, but not exactly impressive. Then there’s the fact that hispanics are extremely loud, litter a lot, and worst of all–papist.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    I agree with you to a point. When they gather together and celebrate a child's birthday or christening (or New years or Christmas) their parties can drag on a bit late and can be loud, but who doesn't like Tejano music after a couple of beers or a tequila? They're very hospitable and like to party - clean-up the next day goes on right on schedule?...Many of them are giving up papacy for the 'non-denominationalism' that's growing by leaps and bounds in the states. Their Catholicism is traditional and doesn't include any weird 'take-over the world' conspiracy theories (as far as I know). :-)

    Latin American culture is fun, but not exactly impressive
     
    .
    Check out the Museum Anthropologia in Mexico City sometime - quite impressive!

    I'm a jazz devotee and can tell you unequivocally that their artists fill the ranks of the best and brightest either as composers or as players.

  179. @Thorfinnsson
    Latin American culture is fun, but not exactly impressive. Then there's the fact that hispanics are extremely loud, litter a lot, and worst of all--papist.

    I agree with you to a point. When they gather together and celebrate a child’s birthday or christening (or New years or Christmas) their parties can drag on a bit late and can be loud, but who doesn’t like Tejano music after a couple of beers or a tequila? They’re very hospitable and like to party – clean-up the next day goes on right on schedule?…Many of them are giving up papacy for the ‘non-denominationalism’ that’s growing by leaps and bounds in the states. Their Catholicism is traditional and doesn’t include any weird ‘take-over the world’ conspiracy theories (as far as I know). 🙂

    Latin American culture is fun, but not exactly impressive

    .
    Check out the Museum Anthropologia in Mexico City sometime – quite impressive!

    I’m a jazz devotee and can tell you unequivocally that their artists fill the ranks of the best and brightest either as composers or as players.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Nondenominationalism is the participation trophy of Christianity.

    And actually a lot of hispanics are becoming pentecostals instead...the Special Olympics of Christianity.
  180. @Mr. Hack
    I agree with you to a point. When they gather together and celebrate a child's birthday or christening (or New years or Christmas) their parties can drag on a bit late and can be loud, but who doesn't like Tejano music after a couple of beers or a tequila? They're very hospitable and like to party - clean-up the next day goes on right on schedule?...Many of them are giving up papacy for the 'non-denominationalism' that's growing by leaps and bounds in the states. Their Catholicism is traditional and doesn't include any weird 'take-over the world' conspiracy theories (as far as I know). :-)

    Latin American culture is fun, but not exactly impressive
     
    .
    Check out the Museum Anthropologia in Mexico City sometime - quite impressive!

    I'm a jazz devotee and can tell you unequivocally that their artists fill the ranks of the best and brightest either as composers or as players.

    Nondenominationalism is the participation trophy of Christianity.

    And actually a lot of hispanics are becoming pentecostals instead…the Special Olympics of Christianity.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    :-)
    , @Mr. Hack
    Don't forget the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons too - I've met them in Costa Rica (not to mention everywhere in Arizona). I think that they're the 'Extra Curricular' of Christianity? :-)
  181. @Thorfinnsson
    Nondenominationalism is the participation trophy of Christianity.

    And actually a lot of hispanics are becoming pentecostals instead...the Special Olympics of Christianity.

    🙂

  182. @Thorfinnsson
    Nondenominationalism is the participation trophy of Christianity.

    And actually a lot of hispanics are becoming pentecostals instead...the Special Olympics of Christianity.

    Don’t forget the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormons too – I’ve met them in Costa Rica (not to mention everywhere in Arizona). I think that they’re the ‘Extra Curricular’ of Christianity? 🙂

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