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Russia's Options in Artsakh War II
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Who should Russia support in this conflict?

By treaty, Russia is not obliged to do anything, at least so long as Azerbaijan (or Turkey) do not violate Armenia’s internationally recognized borders, of which Nagorno-Karabakh/Artsakh is not a part. And while neither Azerbaijan nor Turkey can be remotely considered Russia’s friends, they both have a substantial trade relationship with Russia (e.g. both buy Russian arms) and the latter in particular is increasingly becoming an irritant rather than an asset to Western power, which can at times indirectly serve Russian interests (e.g. from the re-Islamification of the Hagia Sophia, which discredited the schismatic Istanbul Bart, to Turkey’s current face off with the EU over refugees and maritime borders). So it would obviously not be in Russia’s best interests to completely torpedo relations with either of them.

Furthermore, Russians should also be under no delusions that Armenian friendship can be highly situational. They are a highly distinct civilization – neither ethnically Slavic, nor for that matter Eastern Orthodox (their Christianity is about as distant from Russian Orthodoxy as is Roman Catholicism). So there isn’t even that much “civilizational commonality”, not that it usually counts for much anyway, given that the bloodiest enmities often tend to be within closely related groups. The commenter Ano4 lists other reasons for caution which are one also often sees made by Russian nationalists.

But does this mean Russia should also be entirely indifferent to the fate of Artsakh, should it appear that the Azeris are seriously threatening to overrun it entirely? Certainly not.

First off, it is worth mentioning that regardless of the “genuineness” of their friendship, Armenians almost exclusively fought in the Novorossiya Armed Forces in the Donbass War, while Azeris fought for Ukraine.

True, absolute numbers were very low regardless, even relative to their populations, so one shouldn’t put too much stress on this. Besides, I have seen suggestions that the breakdown was not actually that one-sided, e.g. there were reportedly three Azeris with Strelkov’s unit at the outbreak of the conflict. Nonetheless, the “big picture” of Armenians being overwhelmingly on Russia’s side (perhaps even more so than ethnic Russians, sadly – ~3,000 traitors opted to fight for Chaos vs. ~12,000 for the Donbass) while Azeris strongly backed the Ukrainians is correct.

But it does illustrate some broader truths. From a Russian self-determinist perspective, Artsakh has a comparable status to that of the Donbass. Both are defined by a struggle between the legitimacy of internal Soviet borders and the rights of compatriots to decide their own national fate (integration into Armenia and Russia, respectively). In this sense, again broadly speaking, Azerbaijan plays the role of the Ukraine – with whom it happens to have very good relations, including military sales from Ukraine, common membership of the GUAM grouping, similar anti-Russian voting patterns in the UN, and recognition of the Holodomor as a genocide.

And indeed, in this most recent clash, Ukrainian nationalists have taken a near uniformly pro-Azeri position, leaving any “civilizational” considerations by the wayside:

On Ukrainian nationalist forums, there is happiness over the Azeri advances in the past couple of days. This is not illogical. A win for the Azeris would be a morale boost and an inspiration along the lines of Operation Storm for Ukrainians (this comparison is made explicitly). This is one reason why Russia should not be indifferent to the fate of Artsakh, even if the Azeris (and Turks) leave Armenia proper untouched.

To the contrary, Armenian victory and hopefully ensuing recognition of Artsakh should on the contrary further undermine the unreasonable sanctity that accrues to sovok borders.

***

This is not to say that Russia should intervene now, or indeed at all, so long as the Armenians are managing to keep the offensive at bay by themselves.

But should that cease to hold, Russia would be choosing between a major increase in Pan-Turkic power on its southern borders, a large morale boost to the Ukrainians, and the delegitimization of the principle of national (inc. Russian) self-determination in favor of the sanctity of Stalinist-era borders over… I don’t know, upsetting some Russian citizens of Armenian ancestry such as Lavrov and Simonyan on account of some autistic and marginal Russian nationalists having an irrationally exaggerated degree of Armenophobia. That will happily not enter Putin & Co.’s considerations.

The correct response, and what I expect will happen, is logistical and intelligence support dialed up to the level that the Armenians need to prevent an Azeri breakthrough. This will not be fun for either of them since it means more soldiers will die on both sides. But it will reinforce existing Russia’s position as a regional arbitrator, and all those expended tanks and anti-missile systems will need replacing.

 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. Azerbaijan had a period of very high growth between 2004 to 2010 when their oil production quadrupled. But it’s been downhill since. The economy has been stagnant for a decade now with the oil production slowly decreasing every year. Per capita their oil production is just over Russia’s today. Is Aliyev pushing nationalist sentiment as an excuse for this?

    Armenia is on the other hand has had very high growth lately and is on the track to becoming significantly richer than Azerbaijan.

    • Replies: @AP
  3. J Lee says:

    If seeing the Turksmell hordes and their allies dogpile onto Armenia does not elicit a reflexive resistance from European nations then they themselves forfeit their Christian identity.

  4. Carlo says:

    “their Christianity is about as distant from Russian Orthodoxy as is Roman Catholicism”
    Even farther, considering that the Armenian Church didn’t accept the Chalcedonian Council and split in 451; Roman and Constantinopolitan Churches split later.

  5. I would have expected more solidarity with Armenians who have suffered genocide from Muslims in the past. They’re only a tiny nation long marked for complete extermination by the Turks and their Azeri offshoots and really need all the support they can get.

  6. @Carlo

    This council and that council should be seen as just embarassing irrational irrelevant nonsense, just like almost every “debate” between arbitrary and conclusory theological assertions and superstitions.

    I understand that is not how the pointless divisions and “doctrinal” debates among the relatively decent nonMuslim/nonJewish peoples of the world are seen, but that had better change and soon.

    • Troll: Kent Nationalist
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Carlo
  7. Ano4 says:

    some autistic and marginal Russian nationalists having an irrationally exaggerated degree of Armenophobia

    .

    That would be me.

    Guilty as charged, but with mitigating circumstances of being born and raised in Moscow and having witnessed Armenian nepotism and social climbing first hand. Regarding Azeris (носатые и усатые черти), my opinion is they deserve their Armenian neighbors. They both deserve each other.

    I pray Russia stays out of it and no Russian lives are lost, nor moneys spent to help either side of this conflict. Russia should sell both of them arms and help them being better at killing each other. Nothing personal, business only.

    🙂

  8. @Ano4

    Well I’m not the biggest fan of Armenoids myself, though I’ll admit I like them more than any of the other Caucasoids. At least they produce culture (Khachaturian, Aivazovsky) as opposed to just kebab merchants and thieves in law.

    But I wasn’t really thinking of you when I wrote this but other nationalists.

    I think Sergey Grigorov makes some good points here: https://www.facebook.com/tirg.sergey/posts/3690658637659948 (he gets a bit too dramatic with the specter of a neo-Ottoman Empire stretching to Tatarstan but otherwise reasonable)

    • Replies: @Ano4
  9. @RadicalCenter

    I understand that is not how the pointless divisions and “doctrinal” debates among the relatively decent nonMuslim/nonJewish peoples of the world are seen, but that had better change and soon.

    Why soon? While my highest wish would be for a “reverse Algeria” to be enacted, aside from largely ineffective terrorism abroad (from a state and geopolitical perspective), the residents of the Greater Middle East focus most of their energy on killing each other in a reenactment of the Thirty Years’ War whilst in a state of continual civilisational collapse.

    Given this condition, what would help provoke unity amongst their enemies?

  10. Carlo says:
    @RadicalCenter

    You are free to think what you want. I was just pointing that historically the Armenian Church has been separated from Orthodoxy than this from Rome.

  11. Ano4 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Well I’m not the biggest fan of Armenoids

    Kim Kardashian is certainly a worthy object of admiration.

    Khachaturian, Aivazovsky

    Fr Pavel Florensky was also of mixed Armenian descent. He was certainly an outstanding individual. He recalls in his memoirs that his Armenian relatives really disliked the idea of intermarriage with Russians.

    neo-Ottoman Empire

    I think that Turkey has important problems to solve before becoming an Imperial power again. Turk population would be around 30% Kurdish around 2050, with Kurds being younger on average.

    Maybe that is why Erdogan wants to start Empire-building now, to ensure that pan-Turkism has a viable future before Anatolian Turks get stuck with too many Kurds. But Turkic peoples (just like Slavic ones) are very adept at fighting each other and not very keen at uniting. I think that pan-Turkism is a pipe dream, just like pan-Slavism (unfortunately) was.

    Besides, Iran will never allow a Turkish anschluss of Azerbaijan or the Central Asian “Stans”. Historically, prior to Russian Empire getting a foothold in the area, it was Safavid and Kajar Iran that was the primary adversary of the Ottoman Empire in the Caucasus.

    Iran vs Turan is very heroic and based since times immemorial. Shahnameh and all. Let the Aryan Persians kill the Altaic Turks and vice versa. Let them criss cross the Armenian territory while doing it.

    Let’s stay out of it and eat popcorn…

    🙂

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @216
  12. @Commentator Mike

    From that angle I’m sure all our hearts are with Armenia, but in politics one must view things through a pragmatic lens. You can’t let your personal feelings for x country get in the way of sound policy.

  13. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    Regarding Azeris (носатые и усатые черти), my opinion is they deserve their Armenian neighbors. They both deserve each other..Russia should sell both of them arms and help them being better at killing each other. Nothing personal, business only.

    Yikes! Kind of hard for me to raise a kilishok of my favorite Ararat and toast this one?…

    • LOL: Ano4
    • Replies: @Ano4
  14. @Commentator Mike

    France or the UK should have nuked Turkey a long time ago.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  15. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    You really like Ararat brandy? Can’t believe it. I mean only Soviet citizens could really consider it as a decent cognac. It is as lowly as the Azeri porto that I drank as a teenager.

    🙂

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    , @AP
  16. Dmitry says:

    “Public opinion” of Russian people is almost always irrelevant from the point of view of the authorities, but you can see what standard netizens think about Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict:
    https://www.e1.ru/text/world/2020/09/28/69483635/comments/

    Netizens’ attitudes to a conflict of Caucasian nationalities, could be politely paraphrased: “go back to your monkeycountries”.

    Who should Russia support in this conflict?

    From Russian government self-interest, the best situation would be that both sides can return to cold war between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

    Military threat from Azerbaijan (and more indirectly, Turkey), is one of the main whips which means that Armenia can never leave Russian patronage. (If there was a similar third country threatening Georgia, as Azerbaijan threatens Armenia, then Georgia would never have fallen into conflict with Russia).

    In parallel, the military threat from Armenia, is preventing Azerbaijan from leaving relations with Russia, and going like Georgia. Azerbaijan also has oil money, which is redirected to weapons sales (still mostly to industry in Russia) as a result of military threat to them from Armenia.

    The fact Azerbaijan and Armenia (parts which were part of the Russian Empire) both nationalistically escape away from the Russian Empire and Soviet Union as soon as there was an opportunity for them in 1918 and 1991, means there should not have to be a special obligation for expenditure on the region, unless there is some kind of salary (self-interest) involved.

    • Agree: Ano4
  17. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    I think that’s going a bit far, but to think Boris and Cameron wanted them in the EU! Haven’t the Turks killed enough Armenians?

    I think they should be kicked out of NATO myself. They’re a very long way from the North Atlantic.

    I suppose the argument is “what about Turkey as a counterweight to Russia?”.

    Really don’t see what the anti-Russia mania is about – apart of course from providing an alternative hate object to – and for – our current elites, who post-Trump and post-Brexit are desperate for public anger to be directed at “anyone but us”.

    Russia is no threat, but China is eating our lunch and our economies – which will give her power over us whether she wants it or not.

  18. The only useful source of electricity in Armenia is a single rather old soviet era nuclear power plant. The whole countty is vulnerable to an attack on the electricity grid. Russia could, in a non aggressive way, put some “Peacekeepers” quoting “Right to Protect” the civilian population. Even invite the US to join them.

  19. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    Well, to be honest, I have had some pretty harsh stuff too. Sometimes it’s quite good and definitely has a nice aromatic scent within a snifter. You never know what you’re going to get. I’ve had the Georgian brandy equivalent too, and it too was rather harsh. If you’re ever in the States, don’t hesitate to pick up a bottle of E&J brandy. It’s quite smooth and the price is hard to beat.

    It was the harshness of your comment that caught my attention, not the taste of the brandy!

    • Replies: @Ano4
  20. @Ano4

    I also like Ararat. I can’t tell much of a difference between it and 3x more expensive French brandies, but it is much better than 1.5-2x cheaper Dagestani brandies.

    • Replies: @utu
  21. @Ano4

    A Russian once told George Orwell when they were both down and out in Paris: “Trust a snake before a Jew and a Jew before a Greek, but don’t trust an Armenian”.

    • Replies: @Jim Jatras
    , @Matra
  22. Dmitry says:
    @Ano4

    If we ignore Azerbaijan’s 19th century history in the Russian Empire, and 20th century history in the USSR (of course, we shouldn’t, as they became the civilized and Europeanized to the extent of their Russian influence) – Azerbaijan is historically (and culturally, genetically, and religiously) much more offshoot of Iran, than of Turkey.

    The fact Azerbaijan allied now to Turkey, instead of Iran, is probably more a sign of the anti-prestige and anti-soft power of the Islamic Republic in Iran, than of the reality of their historical connection – as well as the economic and also more recently cultural power of Turkey in the last 30 years (e.g. half the region is watching Turkish soap operas now).

    Apparently, overdubbed Turkish soap operas even became popular in Armenia. And Turkish television dramas are the most popular in Iran, and the Iranian authorities are blaming them for kinds of social problems.

    To the extent you leave the Russian sphere, Turkey is clearly the ascendant regional power influencing the Caucasus, while Iran is fading. Economically Turkey is now twice as large as the Iranian economy.

    Turkey probably has a strong influence on Georgia as well. (i.e. Batumi becoming almost as much Turkish as it has been the Russian property investment centre).

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @Thulean Friend
  23. Colonel Cassad’s analysis seems reasonable (machine translated):

    1. For today, Azerbaijan has much less victorious reports. After serious losses on September 27, today the Azerbaijanis did not have a particularly large-scale advance, which, incidentally, did not prevent them from incurring losses from the fire of the Armenians, who declared another portion of the destroyed equipment and personnel.
    In turn, Azerbaijan actively used artillery and UAVs to suppress the Armenian positions, also demonstrating yesterday’s drone strikes and footage from one of the occupied positions of the Armenians.
    It is worth noting that this is also similar to the Turkish operation in Afrin, where after the first days, the Kurds seriously slowed down the advance of the Turkish army after the initial penetration into their territory, but after a couple of weeks of such processing, their defenses gradually began to crumble, and the Turks were able to realize their numerical strength. and technological superiority. Something similar may be attempted in Karabakh as well. Azerbaijan did not succeed in blitzkrieg anyway. A very substantial price was paid for small tactical successes.
    On the other hand, if in the coming days Azerbaijan does not have major successes, then under the influence of international pressure and losses incurred, Azerbaijan may agree to fix a new status quo, announcing the occupation of several villages as a victory over the “Armenian aggressors”. But for Baku, this will obviously be an attempt to put a good face on a bad game. Azerbaijan’s ambitions go much further.

    Continued: https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/6203039.html

    • Thanks: Felix Keverich
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  24. 216 says:
    @Ano4

    Maybe that is why Erdogan wants to start Empire-building now, to ensure that pan-Turkism has a viable future before Anatolian Turks get stuck with too many Kurds. But Turkic peoples (just like Slavic ones) are very adept at fighting each other and not very keen at uniting. I think that pan-Turkism is a pipe dream, just like pan-Slavism (unfortunately) was.

    He can get the Turks in West Europe to come back.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  25. Ano4 says:
    @Dmitry

    Turkey is certainly the ascendant country in the Mediterranean basin today and they deserve this status because they have made a lot of progress in the last generation. I know that there is a lot of knee jerk reactions to the Turks among the conservatives and WN types, but compared to some other Mediterranean countries they are doing rather good and being rather efficient. Their technological solutions are quite decent in many fields, they have a hard working population and enough young people.

    [MORE]

    But as I pointed out, their ethnic Turkish population is losing ground to their Kurdish population and given the historical record of their interactions between those two groups it doesn’t bode well for social stability and ethnic harmony.

    Therefore I believe that Turks being more assertive is just a short term phenomenon, although a lot of things might happen in a few years that would alter history for decades to come. An example being Turks really starting a war with Greeks which they see as their traditional enemies. Other would be Turks giving Armenians a bloody nose on behalf of their Azeri brothers. There are other possibilities, such as the Turks interfering again with Israeli interests and getting into a fight with the Jews.

    If Erdogan loses power nothing of that would happen. Kemalists are not really into Empire building. But Erdogan is holding to the power and sidestepping the Kemalists more and more. Also Muslims worldwide look for someone (anyone really) to lead them somewhere, anywhere as long as it is out of the morass of corruption and stupidity they are drowning in. I have read about Turkish navy returning to Algeria a couple of months ago. If this becomes more than just a show, if young Arabs start studying in Turkey and Arab militaries start cooperating with the Turks on a more regular basis, then we might be heading for trouble.

    Fortunately, Turks despise the Arabs and the opposite is also true. Arabs have a bad memory of Turkish domination and Turks remember how Arabs backstabbed them during WWI. So I don’t think all this Turkish and Arabic trend towards cooperation would lead anywhere serious.

    You are probably right about Iran having less impact cultural and otherwise, although they score a lot of sympathy points among the Muslims for their assistance to anti-Israeli activities of Hamas and Hizballah. Even among the Sunni youth Iranians are probably more popular than Saudis. But I am sure that if they have the choice, the majority of Muslims would rather follow Turks than Persians.

  26. ROBIN says:

    The earth is flat and the globe is the container

    convex vectors don’t rise to apex you don’t have to look up to see a horizon

  27. Ano4 says:
    @216

    I don’t think they would return. The opposite might be true: secular Kemalist Turks will emigrate en masse to EU to avoid the re-islamization of Turkish society.

  28. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    I agree that my comment was harsh. But Armenians are so full of themselves. It is just as if they believed that Russians have the duty to protect them, while they have no obligations whatsoever towards Russians in return. And frankly, some of those Armenians I knew in Moscow (I knew a half dozen of them) sometimes acted condescendingly, as if Russians (I would say Slavs in general) were a “younger culture ” of a “lesser value ” than the Armenian. I also saw that attitude among some Soviet Jewish people and Georgians. The Azeris do not have such a superiority complex, but they are sometimes brutish and viciously violent, which Armenians are usually not.

  29. 216 says:
    @Ano4

    It sounds similar to the relationship between the US and France.

  30. all those expended tanks and anti-missile systems will need replacing.

    Except Armenians cannot pay for the weapons systems Russia is giving them. There is plenty of rich Armenians in diaspora, but their homeland is dirt poor. They are kind of like Jews in this regard – parasitic people.

  31. I think AK here misses one important consideration that Putin is unlikely to miss. Current Armenian PM Pashinian came to power as the result of color revolution. He relieved of their positions and arrested many pro-Russian Armenians, and appointed a lot of Soros-linked scum to the positions of responsibility in Armenia. What’s more, he arrested an Armenian chair of Russia-dominated defense treaty (ODKB), essentially forcing ODKB to select a non-Armenian chair who wouldn’t give a hoot about Artsakh.

    A significant loss in Artsakh would likely inspire Armenians to kick Pashinian out along with his “multi-vector” policies, which are as catastrophic for Armenia as they are for Belarus. Azeri Aliev, being a wily fox, is careful to attack only Artsakh, w/o touching Armenian territory. He appears to count on Putin’s desire t teach Armenians a lesson and get rid of Pashinian. In fact, Putin announced basically hands-off approach for now, by stating that Russia does not want to establish who started the war and who is to blame (while everybody and his brother knows that Azeris started this war). It is worth noting that when the war started, Pashinian called Putin, not Trump, rightly figuring that the US won’t lift a finger to help Armenia, whereas Russia might under certain circumstances.

    • Agree: Exile, Jazman
    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
    , @LG
  32. @Anatoly Karlin

    I would think the Armenians have a lot more to throw at the Azeris than the Kurds vis-à-vis Turkey.

  33. @Commentator Mike

    As a Greek, this brought a warm glow to my heart….

    • LOL: Mikhail, Ano4
    • Replies: @LG
    , @Agathoklis
  34. Tor597 says:

    1) Where are the Iranians in this mess? Are they going to ally with their ethnic brethren or take sides with Armenia? Why?

    2) Looks like Armenia is beating the Azeris. I’ve read up to 800 dead Azeri with around 250 dead Armenians.

    3) Russia should do everything it can, yes starting right now, to help Armenia win.

    Why would they want Turkey right on its border?

  35. LG says:
    @Jim Jatras

    An even warmer glow should come to your heart seeing Armenians kick Turkish ass in the Caucasus. Something (perhaps) the Greeks need to muster the will to do on the Mediterranean.

    • Replies: @Agathoklis
  36. @Dmitry

    Turkey is clearly the ascendant regional power influencing the Caucasus, while Iran is fading. Economically Turkey is now twice as large as the Iranian economy.

    This is a temporary arrangement due to Turkey’s submissiveness to Washington/Tel Aviv and Iran’s defiance of the two. Turkey acted as a highway for jihadists streaming in Syria. Their main sponsor within the Western framework has been, and continues to be, the U.S.A. Iran’s economy has been under massive pressure for many years.

    This arrangement may be changing. Turkey’s economy is not under massive sanctions like Iran’s, but they are doing a lot of self-harm. If their adventurism in the Eastern Med continues, and if the EU finally does some significant sanctions, then their economy would collapse like Lebanon’s.

    Population-wise, the countries are very similar. Current influence is a reflection of past trends.

  37. @Ano4

    Russian and Slavs are indeed a younger culture, the important difference is that Armenians squandered their early start whereas Slavs persevered over their late one.

    • Replies: @Armanen
    , @Ano4
  38. @AnonFromTN

    I think this is a key strategic consideration for Russia. If Russia rewards Armenia’s transactional behaviour, they’ll be reinforcing transactionalism as a viable strategic for all of Russia’s neighbours (most notably, Belarus).

  39. Wielgus says:

    Armenian Youtube – journalist interviews soldiers in Artsakh (Karabakh), it looks like an artillery unit. I don’t understand Armenian – machine translation of the headline says it is exclusive footage from the frontline. Their uniforms and equipment look quite Russian.

  40. anon729 says:

    Armenia’s population has been contracting for the past 30 years while Azerbaijan’s has been growing. It is a stark difference in growth, Azerbaijan was ~2x bigger than Armenia in 1991 and is now more than 3x larger.

    I think a lot of people assume Armenia has vastly greater human capital than Azerbaijan, but their World Bank human capital index is identical. Even if Armenia had a slight advantage in iq, it would not be enough to outweigh the odds it faces in the coming decades. Armenia can outperform expectations by ratcheting up the asabiyah, but that begins to falter when you are facing a human capital peer with 4x your population. Russia will have to create a settlement between the two before Azerbaijan becomes capable of taking territory due to a numbers advantage.

    • Replies: @Armanen
  41. …their Christianity is about as distant from Russian Orthodoxy as is Roman Catholicism

    False. Roman Catholics are much closer to the Orthodox. The monophysite churches of Armenia, Ethiopia, Egypt, et al, are a form of ancient proto-Protestantism and can’t really be reconciled with Orthodox Christianity.

  42. Armanen says:
    @anonymous coward

    You’re incorrect. First you clearly don’t know much about early church history, nor are you aware just how far western Christianity, including the Roman Catholic church has strayed from the teachings of the early Church. Filioque controversy being one of the best known. Other than the disagreement over how to formulate the nature of Christ, the OO and EO churches have more in common than either one does with RC.

  43. Armanen says:
    @anon729

    Arabs have a huge numbers advantage over Israel. How is that working out for the Arabs??

    • Agree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @Thulean Friend
  44. Armanen says:
    @Belarusian Dude

    Read Armenian history, as well as the history of the ancient Near East before making ignorant comments. Moreover try to come up with a credible history of Belarus, you know the country that didn’t exist prior to 1918. Consolidate that.

  45. @Tor597

    2) Looks like Armenia is beating the Azeris. I’ve read up to 800 dead Azeri with around 250 dead Armenians.

    I thought it was Muslims who were widely considered to be psychotic and murderous savages?

  46. @Ano4

    I knew in Moscow (I knew a half dozen of them) sometimes acted condescendingly, as if Russians (I would say Slavs in general) were a “younger culture ” of a “lesser value ” than the Armenian.

    In my experience it’s not uncommon for Irish and Scots to have a similar opinion of English culture, that English culture is a younger culture, and less rich and intricate than their own. The idea that the English are a younger, less culturally established people than themselves is definitely ingrained in the Irish and Scottish mentality I would say.

    I think this is a fairly common attitude from people who see themselves being colonially oppressed by a larger country.

    • Replies: @AltSerrice
    , @Ano4
  47. @Ano4

    Turkey is certainly the ascendant country in the Mediterranean basin today and they deserve this status because they have made a lot of progress in the last generation. I know that there is a lot of knee jerk reactions to the Turks among the conservatives and WN types, but compared to some other Mediterranean countries they are doing rather good and being rather efficient. Their technological solutions are quite decent in many fields, they have a hard working population and enough young people.

    I agree Turkey’s abilities are underrated if grouped with Middle Eastern countries. However, Turkey is not ascendant. It had an outstanding run during the 2000s but the 2010s were stagnant. I don’t see how things get better economically in the 2020s.

    GDP per capita nominal

    2000: $4,300
    2008 (peak): $10,800
    2019: $9,000

    Turkey is occupying Syria, fighting Egypt in Libya, playing brinksmanship with Greece and the EU, taking on Russia in 3 proxy wars now with South Caucus added to Syria, and Libya, irking the US, enabling terrorism in China at least from 2014-15 over Xinjiang, and spending an immense 1% of GDP annually on a foreign aid budget that includes wasting resources on hyperactive engagement with sub-Sahara Africa. This country has to be on the cusp of a meltdown? Will its GDP per capita in 2030 be even lower than $9,000?

    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @Dmitry
  48. @Jim Jatras

    I was disappointed as I would preferred to be where Armenians are.

  49. @LG

    We already confronted them in the Eastern Mediterranean and they came off second best.

  50. @Armanen

    Yes, this is absolutely true. Anatoly Karlin and others are just ignorant.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  51. LOL

    Azerbaijan is butthurt at Serbia because Serbia sold some weapons to Armenia and now they’re using them lmao.

    “Armenians hit our settlements with missiles purchased from Serbia – PHOTOFACT”

    https://azeridefence.com/erm%c9%99nil%c9%99r-yasayis-m%c9%99nt%c9%99q%c9%99l%c9%99rimizi-serbiyadan-alinmis-raketl%c9%99rl%c9%99-vurdular-fotofakt/

    This ignores the fact that Serbia sold way more weapons to Azerbaijan but I guess Azeris are just going to boil with hysterical butthurt at anyone that sells weapons to Armenians regardless (If Russia can sell weapons to both sides, then why can’t Serbia?).

  52. @Europe Europa

    I’ve never actually come across that view outside of the most autistic nationalists. Normies simply do not know enough history to even begin to put together such a view. Irish and Scottish hostility to the English is almost universally based off oppression grudges.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
  53. Ano4 says:
    @Belarusian Dude

    Russian and Slavs are indeed a younger culture

    Depends how you define Slavs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    But you are right, Armenians have started early only to produce Ara Vay songs and the Kardashians as a global phenomenon.

    But then, mountain dwelling sometimes causes a lack of oxygen in the brain. They shouldn’t have climbed that high up the hills. Their steppe dwelling Yamnaya ancestors did a lot better…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture

    🙂

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  54. utu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I have heard only good things about Ararat but when I asked some Russians (in 1990’s) where to get it they told me that you can’t because the Ararat that is in stores was not a genuine one.

  55. Ano4 says:
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Erdogan is kind of geopolitically hyperactive. I agree that he is overdoing it.

  56. @Ano4

    I played the video expecting gold chains and I was not disappointed. The girl is not very attractive though, the fact that this was the best they could fine is not a good indication for Armenian women.

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  57. Ano4 says:
    @Europe Europa

    I think this is a fairly common attitude from people who see themselves being colonially oppressed by a larger country.

    Thing is Russia has never oppressed Armenians, Russia saved them from complete obliteration. The country of Armenia exists today on a territory conquered by Russian soldiers and paid for in Russian blood.

    It was conquered against the Muslims that oppressed Armenians, although at the time the level of oppression exerted against Armenians by the Persians and Turks was bearable. Turks treated Slavs way worse. Turks have started mass killing Armenians only after the emergence of Armenian nationalist Dashnak terrorism.

    At that time Russian Empire saved Armenians from a total obliteration. Armenians prospered under USSR and swarmed the whole of the Soviet Union where they formed nepotistic diasporas aligned with Soviet Nomenklatura.

    Armenians I know have never expressed any form of gratitude for Russians saving and welcoming them. Younger Armenians side up with the West, older Armenians usually are nostalgic about USSR, but none of them aligns and identifies with Russian interests.

    Let them fight their stupid wars for territories so small that it would take a hundred of them to make a ln oblast in Russia. Russian lives should bot be lost to protect them. Let the West do it’s part…

  58. @Ano4

    Yeah yeah I know, only the English are oppressors. Russians are wonderful and dindu nuffin. I know.

    I only wish English people had typical Russian tunnel vision and self-belief, would be a different nation entirely. I don’t think I’ve ever heard an English person defend colonialism like you just have, as if you were doing the colonial subjects a huge favour and that they should thank you sincerely.

    I mean, I suppose we could make the same argument that the English saved India from obliteration by the Muslims, but no English person ever would. I don’t think most English people would have the brass neck to make such a claim.

  59. @AltSerrice

    It’s definitely a thing among Scots, Welsh and Irish. They see themselves as ancient Celtic cultures with rich traditions and heritage that extend back to pre-history, and the English as Saxon invaders and late comers who have very little history and heritage by comparison.

    In fact, it gets worse when you consider that many people only consider “England” to have existed after the Norman invasion, which means that in many peoples’ minds the English people as they are known today basically did not exist before 1066.

    • Agree: Philip Owen
    • Disagree: AltSerrice
    • Replies: @Matra
  60. Yevardian says:
    @Carlo

    Technically the Armenian Apostolic Church significantly precedes Constantine I’s (rather dubious) conversion or the tetrarchy’s adoption of Christianity as the Empire’s ‘most favoured religion’. The was never so much a split as simply that the Melchites have always been institutionally separate. The Copts and other Syriac ‘Monophysites’ did break off from the (Orthodox) Melchites later, but this didn’t relate to Apostolic Church although it was branded under the same anathema, it precedes those schisms.

  61. Yevardian says:
    @anonymous coward

    The monophysite churches of Armenia, Ethiopia, Egypt, et al, are a form of ancient proto-Protestantism

    I don’t really get your analogy to Protestantism here, of that era I can only really see it being applied to the Paulicians, though even that is a stretch.

  62. AP says:
    @Shortsword

    Wages in Armenia are now even lower than in Ukraine (and lower than in Azerbaijan):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

  63. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Armanen

    A point I made at this thread:

    https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2020/09/28/thoughts-on-armenian-azeri-conflict/#comment-34225

    Armenians have been likened to Jews. A resourceful population can make up for shortcomings in numbers and a lack of natural resources. At the same time, keep in mind that Israel has had the benefit of great support from Uncle Sam

  64. Ano4 says:
    @Europe Europa

    I suppose we could make the same argument that the English saved India from obliteration by the Muslims

    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/2020-09-28_13-53-53.jpg?itok=_3hcrEHq

  65. Mikhail says: • Website

    Will check these out:

  66. Azeri military propaganda is shit tier.

    Именно так выглядит понт!))))

    Posted by Aram Gabrelyanov on Tuesday, September 29, 2020

    [MORE]

    • LOL: Ano4
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  67. • Replies: @Ano4
  68. Matra says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Orwell said it was a proverb – maybe a Russian proverb?

    In Down and Out in Paris and London which was autobiographical, Orwell said that an Armenian doorkeeper at the Paris hotel he worked at, swindled him out of some of his wages and pocketed it himself. This led to Orwell saying:

    He called himself a Greek but in reality he was an Armenian. After knowing him I saw the force of the proverb ‘Trust a snake before a Jew and a Jew before a Greek, but don’t trust an Armenian.’

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  69. Matra says:
    @Europe Europa

    You’re imagining things. ‘Celtic’ animosity towards England is mostly the usual complex that comes from living next door to someone bigger – Canadians towards Americans, Uruguayans towards Argentinians, Catalans & Basques towards Castilian Spain, everyone in France towards Parisians.

  70. @Tor597

    Why would they want Turkey right on its border?

    The actual choice is between Turkey (Azerbaijan) and Soros-linked Globohomo (Pashinian and his gang in Armenia). Erdogan is scum, but compared to Soros and the rest of Globohomo elites, he is an Eagle Scout.

    • Replies: @Jazman
  71. Ano4 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    https://sputniknews.com/world/202009291080611328-turkish-f-16-downs-armenian-su-25-fighter-defence-ministry-says/

    Earlier in the day, Ankara stressed that it is ready to support Baku “both in negotiations and in combat”, stressing that an attack on Azerbaijan is an attack against Turkey as well.

    Based Erdogan…

    Now what is Putin gonna make of it? Russian troops are caught up in Syria. If Turks close the straits the situation of Russian troops in Syria becomes untenable. Turks could also ramp up the action against Russian presence in Lybia. They could close the South Stream project…

    Putin might start a war against Turkey or he could again boycott Turkish tomatoes. My bet is on the tomatoes’ boycott…

    • Replies: @Wielgus
    , @Felix Keverich
  72. @Europe Europa

    I only wish English people had typical Russian tunnel vision and self-belief, would be a different nation entirely. I don’t think I’ve ever heard an English person defend colonialism like you just have, as if you were doing the colonial subjects a huge favour and that they should thank you sincerely.

    I mean, I suppose we could make the same argument that the English saved India from obliteration by the Muslims, but no English person ever would. I don’t think most English people would have the brass neck to make such a claim.

    You are right, the English will never defend their imperial past. They need hearty Scots to make the Liberal case for Empire.

  73. Wielgus says:

    The Turkish authorities are denying it but it lacks credibility, in my view.

  74. @Kent Nationalist

    Some Armenian women are pretty while young. Their major drawback comes later: as they age, they grow noticeable mustaches, sideburns, and beards, just like Indian women. Azeri chicks have the same problem.

  75. @Europe Europa

    Simple question: where are the Armenians (the majority of Armenian nation, even their sacred mountain Ararat is in Turkey today) that remained in Turkey? Answer: most were murdered, the descendants of the rest are now in California.

  76. @Europe Europa

    Russians can be a bit chauvinist but on this case he is right, the Armenian nation owes its survival to the Russian conquest of the Caucasus, of course they’ll never thanks the Russians about it because an ancient culture like the Armenians sees the Slavs as half-civilized barbarians and can’t help but resent their subordination to those it sees as their cultural inferiors.

    The English like to pat themselves in the back about abolishing slavery when they were the biggest european slave traders. It takes some brass neck to keep talking about slavery abolition.

  77. Wielgus says:
    @Ano4

    The Turkish authorities have watched the Israelis shoot planes down and launch missiles in other countries, especially Syria, without major consequences and have decided to do the same. They are denying it for the moment because it probably flouts international law, not that this bothers them or other powerful actors on the international stage.

  78. Mitleser says:

    https://archive.vn/jJYK2

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  79. @Armanen

    Irrelevant. Contrary to Zionist propaganda, Israel hasn’t faced a serious war since the 1970s. Israel was also bailed out by the USA during the Yom Kippur war. Even the mythology surrounding the “six-day war’ neglects to mention that the LBJ admin was ready to intervene on Israel’s side if things got ugly.

    That is the key factor. All the countries in the region know that if SHTF, the big golem will be yanked to help Israel. Armenia doesn’t have a big golem to command.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @AaronB
  80. @Mitleser

    RAND is a key MIC think-tank in the US. Given the extreme attitudes in the US, particularly in the Deep State, on Russia it won’t surprise me at all if Turkey and Azerbaijan were used as puppets. Turkey is near-bankrupt and their main sponsor within the Western alliance has been the US from day one. The Turks are desperate for any lifeline from their master.

    Last decade, and continuing until now, their main function has been to act as a jihadist staging ground to flood Syria with al-Qaida extremists. This is an additional function, to act as a bridge to irritate Russia. The 2018 “rapproachment” is probably already dead between Russia and Turkey.

  81. @Matra

    You are correct. I just assumed he picked up that proverb from that Russian exile he was hanging out with.

  82. @Ano4

    No-fly-zone over eastern Georgia would effectively cut off Azeris from Turkish resupply and stop the flow of jihadist meat. Will be easy to implement. As a bonus, will humiliate Georgians.

    Erdogan could declare war in response, but I doubt it.

    • Agree: Ano4
  83. @Agathoklis

    Doesn’t seem like Greece is particularly acknowledging special ties either:

    https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/09/28/armenian-community-leader-did-greece-forget-the-support-we-gave-against-turkey/

    With Armenians and Azerbaijanis battling today in the region of Artsakh, the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs has shown a complete unwillingness to give vocal support to Armenia despite the latter last month expressing uncategorical support of Greece against Turkey in the East Mediterranean.

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @joniel
  84. @Armanen

    …nor are you aware just how far western Christianity, including the Roman Catholic church has strayed from the teachings of the early Church.

    This isn’t true. The Roman Church tolerates heresy, but never officially acknowledged anything heretical.

    Filioque controversy being one of the best known.

    Rome rolled that one back; their official position is something like that it’s a “translation error” and that the Orthodox position is also correct.

    Other than the disagreement over how to formulate the nature of Christ, the OO and EO churches have more in common than either one does with RC.

    “Other than”?? The nature of Christ is the core of Christianity and the only part that really matters; everything else is mostly irrelevant.

    Anyways, what matters is that what I’m writing here isn’t just my crackpot opinion, it’s also the official position of the Russian Orthodox Church. E.g., the ROC recognizes Roman Catholic sacraments but not Armenian ones.

    • Replies: @Hugo Silva
  85. AaronB says:
    @Thulean Friend

    What about 48.

    You’re forgetting that the Soviets were on the side of the Arabs, and were helping them with actual troops and advisors and tons of equipment. Soviet pilots even fought air battles against Israeli pilots.

    But you’re probably right that after the Soviets and Americans got involved, neither side would be permitted a totally crushing victory.

    When Israel surrounded the Egyptian Army in 73 and was about to destroy it, the Soviets put airborne divisions on alert and advised the Americans they would intervene to stop this. The Americans put their own airborne divisions on alert.

    In the end America forced Israel to let the army escape.

    Its an interesting question if America would have intervened with troops to rescue Israel if the Arabs were winning. America used troops to prevent South Korea, Vietnam, and West Germany from falling but it didn’t help Hungary.

    Anyways, even if the Arabs “knew” America would bail it out, the fact is that their numbers did not give them the military advantage they thought it would. In actual fact a numerically smaller Israel did defeat a vastly more numerous opponent armed with state of the art weapons from the Soviets. And the “bail out” from America in 73 was only material, while the Soviets were massively arming the Arabs.

    And that is a point worth making for reasons other than Israel because it is an important historical point that I think is underappreciated today in our world of numbers. Other examples might be Greece vs Persia or the British Empire.

    The British Empire was not solely a matter of technology, or even largely. Native armies quickly adopted Western technology and military organization. When the British fought and defeated the Sikh kingdom, the Sikhs were using the latest artillery and organized along European military lines.

    Numbers matter, technology matters, but there are other factors that can be just as decisive.

    And I think in this day and age this has to be insisted upon.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  86. @Ano4

    Armenians I know have never expressed any form of gratitude for Russians saving and welcoming them.

    What are your standards of evidence here? Are Armenians supposed to greet every new Russian they meet with words of effusive gratitude? Like if you own a business and an Armenian walks in and makes a purchase but doesn’t shower you with praise for having saved Armenia, are you going to say, “See what they’re like? No gratitude at all!”?

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • LOL: AaronB
    • Replies: @Ano4
  87. joniel says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    The Turks are simply taking advantage of Armenian and Greek disloyalty to settle some old scores. Russia is looking at them like “mebbe we will help mebbe we wont.”

    They should have learned from Cyprus how valuable these “close ties to the West” are.

    • Agree: Ano4
  88. @Armanen

    Stfu christcuck।।

    https://vajrin.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/for-the-ashes-of-their-fathers-and-the-temples-of-their-gods-the-hindus-of-armenia/

    The Turk comes to pay you back for the Hindu & Zorastrian genocide you committed in service of a religion which upholds cuckoldry as a virtue।।

    • Troll: Seraphim
    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  89. I’m surprised how aggressive Armenia is being, they appear to quite comfortably have the upper hand despite having about a quarter of the population of Azerbaijan, as well as probably being significantly poorer than Azerbaijan due to the latters oil wealth.

    Kind of contradicts the widely held belief that Christians are pacifists who would get beaten every time by the far more aggressive and fanatical Muslims, especially when outnumbered. In reality it’s the Muslim Azeris who seem to be taking the beating.

  90. @Europe Europa

    The Azeris are the aggressors.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    , @LG
  91. @Kent Nationalist

    That only makes it all the more surprising that the Armenians have the upper hand.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  92. @Europe Europa

    They’re the ones losing territory at the moment.

  93. @anonymous coward

    How many people can understand the disputes about the nature of Christ, something which if real is beyond human understanding, isn’t it better for everyone agree to disagree and leave the matter at that.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  94. @anonymous coward

    Why proto-protestantism, they give more importantce to the divine mature of Christ than the West and claim apostolic sucession for their beliefs.

    You have to distinguish between theological closeness and cultural closeness, theologically the Ortodox are closer to Rome but culturally the Orthdox are closer to the Monophisite Churches than to Rome because both Constantinople and the Monophisite Churches belong to the Hellenistic cultural area, unlike Rome which is Heir to the Latin part of the Empire and only partially hellenized.

  95. @Europe Europa

    Armenians were always the violent and successful chad to the beta virgin Muslim. This isn’t their first scuffle, and Armenians always came up on top, even when outgunned. They’re just better fighters.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  96. @Hugo Silva

    These arcane philosophical points have serious real-world implications downstream.

    E.g., the Roman idea of ‘immaculate conception’ leads to degenerate marian cults, which leads to degenerate feminism, etc.

  97. @Hugo Silva

    …theologically the Ortodox are closer to Rome but culturally the Orthdox are closer to the Monophisite Churches…

    This is also false.

    The Armenian church is an ethnic church; they don’t really care what they believe in as long as it’s sufficiently “Armenian” and “traditional”.

    The Russian Church is completely opposite; dogmatic and philosophical points are of paramount importance. (The ROC won’t give you sacraments or baptize you if you don’t pass a theological exam; true story.)

    Again, this has real downstream consequences. The ROC is “the Christian Church in Russia” and not “the Russian church”; this is why the American Orthodox Church originally came from the ROC and not from e.g. the Greeks.

    (And the whole bloody multi-century conflict with the Old Believers was exactly about this sticking point; people were willing to die and kill for this issue.)

  98. @Hugo Silva

    This is correct but probably too nuanced for Karlin.

  99. Ano4 says:
    @silviosilver

    The general attitude of Armenians towards Russia and Russian culture tends towards condescension.

    The Armenian diaspora in Russia is only second to the Jewish lobby in nepotism and corruption, negatively effecting Russian society.

    But this is the situation today. I have outlined the historical perspective on the previous thread devoted to this question and would not repeat myself here.

    Suffice to say, historically speaking Armenians are (like Jews) quite inclined to simultaneously overestimate themselves and pretend that they are always the victims.

    Both Armenians and Jews tend to take their benefactors (Americans for Israel and Russians for Armenia) as granted.

    I think that it is an erroneous and unethical attitude that both ethnic groups will regret sooner or later.

    In Armenians’ case sooner is the most probable.

    • Replies: @LG
  100. LG says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Armenia’s multi vector foreign policy was started under Kocharyan and his FM at the time, Vartan Oskanyan. No matter how many times you and others repeat that there was the color revolution in Armenia in 2018, does not make it so. Kocharyan and his ilk are post Soviet types who only enriched themselves. The people grew tired of being under the Kocharyan/Sargsyan tandem for nearly 20 years.

    Armenia has maintained its commitments to Russian-led organizations full stop. And in fact has agreed to further intensify military links since 2018. That there are Soros linked people in the new government is true, but what you are doing is throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. Perhaps you ought to take a nuanced view.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  101. Are Armenians white? I don’t think many people would consider Kim Kardashian to be a white woman, and she is only half Armenian.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  102. LG says:
    @Ano4

    Nice try. Armenians do not subvert their host countries, while Jews do. Jewish bankers bankrolled the Bolsheviks, and the same Juden looted Russia in the 1990s. Many of the top oligarchs in your country (assuming you are ethnic Russian) are Jews and continue to peddle pro-Israeli talking points while also working with the Chabad-Lubavitch organizations in the West, particularly London and NYC.

    Seems clear to me that you have a personal hang-up against Armenians and want the whole world to share your prejudice.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Ano4
  103. LG says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    100 percent! But every forum and comment section needs the simps and the cucks. It seems like the anti-Armenian brigade here is filling in that function. Good fluffers the whole lot of them 🙂

  104. AaronB says:
    @LG

    It’s about symbolism. Jews and Armenians symbolize urban sophistication, and Ano4 is what I describe as the “jealous peasant” type.

    There is nothing wrong with being a peasant or lower class, but a certain sub-group of peasant develop an irrational jealousy of anything non-peasant.

    Ano’s likes and dislikes seem to have been formed by his experience growing up poor during the break up of the Soviet Union, and having to watch as slick urban types got wealthy.

    This is probably why he reliably takes the Muslim side in any conflict. Muslims typify the rough uncouth type – the opposite of the type that might be successful in an urban setting.

    I myself am nostalgic for the peasant lifestyle, and am probably irrationally romantic about it, but I think I’d like to live as a peasant. But I would be cool with the wealthy urban types who come to buy my raw milk artisan cheeses.

    • LOL: Ano4
  105. @LG

    The people grew tired of being under the Kocharyan/Sargsyan tandem for nearly 20 years.

    There is no arguing that previous Armenian leadership was mostly thieves (pretty much like Yeltsin’s coterie in the 1990s in Russia). However, it was the 2018 color revolution in Armenia that threw the proverbial baby out with the bath water. Pashinian’s government imprisoned many criminals along with quite a few innocent people whose only “guilt” was pro-Russian orientation. They outlawed TV in Russian in Armenia. He and his Soros-linked appointees attempted to reorient Armenia towards the West. So, if I were Russian president, I’d be disinclined to help present-day Armenia. Let their Western friends help, which has zero chance of happening. As the saying goes, friend in need is a friend, indeed.

    Armenia has maintained its commitments to Russian-led organizations full stop. And in fact has agreed to further intensify military links since 2018.

    Russian military base in Gyumri is the only reason Armenia is not wiped out by Turks and Azeris and Armenian population does not suffer the same fate as those Armenians who used to live in Turkey in the early twentieth century, or in Azerbaijan in the late twentieth century.

    As one prominent Armenian rightly said, “I don’t know why Russians are interested in us, but I do know that nobody else is”. End of story.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Beckow
    , @Yevardian
  106. @anonymous coward

    Armenians always came up on top, even when outgunned. They’re just better fighters.

    Vicious anti-Armenian pogroms in Sumgait and Baku in the early 1990s, and then the war for Karabakh (that Armenians call Artsakh) that Azeris lost, showed that Azeris are like Banderites: heroic against unarmed people, especially women and children, and hapless cowards when they meet armed resistance.

  107. Tor597 says:
    @Europe Europa

    The English conquered and colonized half the world. The Russians just had scraps with its neighbors which is completely different.

    Nice try though Anglo scum.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  108. @Kent Nationalist

    The British certainly colonized more people. If you exclude India, though, then at the beginning of the 19th century, both groups had mostly ‘colonized’ empty space.

  109. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AaronB

    In 1948, the Soviets were supporting the Zionists in part to stick it to the Brits while hoping for a pro-Soviet Jewish state. The Zionists received arms via Czechoslovakia.

  110. songbird says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Russian military base in Gyumri is the only reason Armenia is not wiped out by Turks and Azeris and Armenian population does not suffer the same fate as those Armenians who used to live in Turkey in the early twentieth century, or in Azerbaijan in the late twentieth century

    I don’t think the global order would tolerate that sort of annexation. It would challenge too many ideas. If Armenians had two genocides, they might outscore a certain group. It might give Europeans ideas about what to do with the Muslims in their countries, and it might give Arabs ideas of what to do to Israel.

    At least in the short term, in my view, the only major changes possible on a global map are further fragmentations in Africa. For the rest of the world, it will be no-fly-zones and semi-autonomous regions. Perhaps, not forever, but for some time to come.

  111. Ano4 says:
    @AaronB

    It’s about symbolism. Jews and Armenians symbolize urban sophistication

    The symbol of Armenian urban sophistication…

    The urban sophistication according to the Jews…

    🙂

    • LOL: AaronB
    • Replies: @AaronB
  112. @AaronB

    Ano’s likes and dislikes seem to have been formed by his experience growing up poor during the break up of the Soviet Union, and having to watch as slick urban types got wealthy.

    You may be onto something. As someone who has never envied any other individual’s, group’s or class’s success – I even find it hard to imagine what it would be like to – this is an aspect of human motivation I virtually always overlook. Then again, maybe I’m right to overlook it, since it seems difficult to produce any actual evidence for it; you’re left having to assume it’s there, which isn’t something I’m comfortable doing. Jews do a lot of this assuming, it seems to me. They’re rarely slow to dismiss criticism with claims that “you’re just jealous of us.” Well, maybe the critics are jealous, but maybe they’re not.

    I myself am nostalgic for the peasant lifestyle, and am probably irrationally romantic about it, but I think I’d like to live as a peasant.

    It’s easy to romanticize it, but I think I would utterly despise that life. I’ve visited quite a few villages in the balkans, tagging along with friends when they visit village-dwelling relatives (plenty of city people have village relatives). It’s okay, but I get bored after a couple of hours, but you can’t leave so soon, and then it just drags on and on and I can’t wait to get out of there. The worst is when I’ve been conned into sleeping over – bored out of my mind! And that’s just visiting. If I actually to work there in the fields or something, geezus, that’d be ghastly. I would straight up choose inner city Detroit over that.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @AaronB
  113. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …prominent Armenian rightly said, “I don’t know why Russians are interested in us, but I do know that nobody else is”.

    My understanding is that Iran is also tacitly supporting Armenia, they are allowing Russian resupply planes to fly over Iran since Georgia is not allowing it. But they would never actually fight on the Armenian side.

    Armenian diaspora is very influential, but that might of limited value in a war. We have been observing a systematic mop-up of Christian countries that have disputes with Moslem countries or Moslem minorities. It started with Bosnia and Kosovo, then Chechens, Syrian Christians, Greece and Cyprus, Lebanon, etc… Basically Western countries – primarily the Anglos, but also French and German – are continuing their centuries old policies of eliminating the eastern Christians as an independent civilisation by siding with anyone who fights them. The obsession to destroy Russia at any cost is a major subset of this mentality, but all smaller, Christian nations in the east of Europe are disposable and many in the West would prefer that they don’t muddy up the multicultural liberal nirvana.

    Today is an anniversary of the Munich Treaty in 1938: UK and France proudly allied with Hitler to point his aggression toward the east. Let’s remember that Molotov-Ribbentrop happened a year later, but that is a detail that most Anglos prefer to obfuscate.

  114. Ano4 says:
    @silviosilver

    I do not envy anyone. I just want the nepotistic diasporas out of Russia. I would think the same if I was American, I would want the nepotistic diasporas out of America. Nepotistic diasporas have nothing enviable. Their success is built upon nepotism and unfair concurrence.

    Pure and simple.

  115. @AaronB

    It’s about symbolism. Jews and Armenians symbolize urban sophistication, and Ano4 is what I describe as the “jealous peasant” type.

    Rather they are both part of the Eurasian Chutzpah Belt.

    Israelis and Armenians belong to the same tacky social group as Iranians, Assyrians, Caucasians in general, etc.

    Some Arabs want to be like the ones above but a lot of them are something lower, though I don’t have a specific enough sociological name for it yet.

    • Agree: Ano4, Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @AaronB
  116. @Kent Nationalist

    You’re someone literally ethnically displaced by immigration & liable to be thrown in prison and murdered for the shit you say on here।।

    I’d be a lot more careful, and apologetic if I were you “Kent”

    • Troll: Seraphim
  117. AaronB says:
    @silviosilver

    I think everyone used to the city initially finds the countryside boring. I did too.

    The trick is to stay with the boredom. Just let it be boring. And then, strangely, the silence and the space become somehow interesting. A new kind of interesting, deeper and more satisfying. I always start out itching to get back to the city, and then don’t want to leave after a few days.

    I’m also beginning to think manual labor may be more humanly satisfying than intellectual work. Especially most kinds of intellectual work in the modern world.

    There is something about working with wood, the earth, animals. Working with wood seems particularly appealing – maybe carpentry? I am reading a book called “Shopcraft as Soulcraft”. Very interesting.

    As for the envy thing, yeah it can’t be proven and it can easily be misused and overused. Every successful person who is an asshole is convinced people just envy him his success, and that everyone who wants a kinder, gentler capitalism is driven by resentment of success.

    But in Ano’s case I think a clear pattern has emerged.

  118. AaronB says:
    @Ano4

    That was the summit of urban sophistication in 17th century Poland.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  119. @Beckow

    Let’s remember that Molotov-Ribbentrop happened a year later, but that is a detail that most Anglos prefer to obfuscate.

    Yes, Molotov-Ribbentrop was the last of more than a dozen such pacts concluded by various European countries with Hitler. If memory serves, the very first (in 1934) was signed by Pilsudski. I think Europeans, particularly Anglos and French, are still sore that, while they betrayed first and announced their betrayal of Czechoslovakia to the whole world, wily Stalin outfoxed them by concluding Molotov-Ribbentrop. Well, Poland and France got their just deserts at Hitler’s hands. Western Europeans, being sore losers, are domed to whine to the end of times: history is irreversible.

    • Replies: @Matra
  120. Dmitry says:
    @Hyperborean

    Israel is much more similar to a multicultural America – it’s a postmodern, multicultural, multiracial, country.

    For example, the most prestigious and bourgeois people in Israel, include a lot of what are really white leftists, or liberals (it reminds of elite American liberals).

    There are vast mass of Arab Jews which is probably much of the country’s proletariat. There is more than a million Russian speakers, mostly in a lower middle class of Israeli society.

    Israel also has the most strange diffusion of religious cults, which live completely separately from the rest of society (Haredi Jews), in their own ghettos, and which create their own imaginary world. (This is like Amish or Mormons). Also recently, Israel has a lot of Africans. Israel is also full of Arab Muslims, who are semi-assimilated and semi-resistant part of the country. 1/4 of the Israelis are Arabs, mostly Muslim, and you can stop in the highway onto a shopping mall, and sometimes only slowly notice everyone in the mall is Arab. Most Arabs there are quite modernized though, and they are working in the normal jobs.

    This kind of society is like a miniature America, and reflects society formed by layers of immigration. It operates more by some fragile social contract between diverse people, unlike Old World society which has usually emerged from stable and homogenized ingredients.

    Armenia and Azerbaijan are an extremely racially and religiously homogenous societies, by comparison. However, in Armenia and Azerbaijan, the political formation itself, is also quite an artificial, and in its current form recently donated by the Soviet Union.

  121. Ano4 says:
    @AaronB

    Then you must be proud of your shtetle ancestors.

  122. Dmitry says:
    @Europe Europa

    It depends what you mean by “white”?

    1. In terms of genetics, Armenians and Azerbaijanis are the closest people to each other, but they are both closely related to Iranians.

    2. In terms of external appearance. Armenians and Azerbaijanis are the same appearance. I’m no expert, but I guess Armenians are a very ancient and ethnically pure population, and they look like they have racially homogenized in the light brown colour.

    3. In terms of culture? Both Armenia and Azerbaijan society have a lot of Soviet/Russian influence, which gives some European culture.

    Armenians had historically lived more under the Persian Empires and Ottoman Empires. In 19th century, Azerbaijan was transferred from the Iranians, to the Russian Empire. In the 20th century, both are constituent parts of the USSR.

    However, culture even in the parts of caucasus which are today in Russia, is not what we stereotypically associate with “Europe” – which usually refers to highly developed and civilized Western European culture.

    Further from Sweden and Benelux culture, you probably cannot be than the caucasus. (But perhaps it’s not that far from the Ottomanized Balkan nationalities’ culture, who are technically part of Europe).

    4. In terms of geography? Both Armenia and Azerbaijan are – Western Asia. Really a geographical boundary of Europe is cutting through Georgia. Usually, even most of Georgia is categorized Western Asia, not Europe.

    5. As for Kim Kardashian?

    You can see some controversy about her. E.g. there is an article by a journalist with an Uzbek family name, attacking Kardashian family for “blackfishing” (pretending to be African-American, or other historically oppressed nationality).

    Blackfishing is an act commonly perpetrated by white women who try to look darker than they are or change their facial features to capitalise off “exotic” looks of historically oppressed minorities. P.S. To anyone about to tell me Kourtney, Kim and Khloe are half-Armenian, I know. But which part of Armenian culture allows women to blackfish please?

    https://thetab.com/2019/11/05/a-reminder-of-what-the-kardashian-jenners-looked-like-a-long-long-time-ago-130023

    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @Swedish Family
  123. Dmitry says:
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    In terms of GDP per capita, Turkey has achieved almost the same economic development level as China, Kazakhstan, Mexico and Russia.

    According to Wikipedia, in 2020 year:

    Turkey’s per capita GDP is $9,683
    Kazakhstan’s per capita GDP is $9,686
    Mexico’s per capita GDP is $10,405
    China’s per capita GDP is $10,872
    Russia’s per capita GDP is $11,305

    Of course, all countries are in the “middle income trap”, and development has slowed in Turkey and Russia of the last decade. Whether “middle income trap” will trap China, is also something we can only speculate.

    However, in favour of Turkey, they had achieved this economic development without oil and many commodity exports.

  124. Ano4 says:
    @LG

    Seems clear to me that you have a personal hang-up against Armenians

    Not really. I equally dislike all nepotistic diasporas that have infested Russia, be they from some Aul or Akert in the Caucasus mountains or some Shtetl beyond the pale of settlement. I would like to see all of these minorities leave Russia and go to live wherever suits them best. For Armenians I would believe LA being the right place. For Jews I suggest London. This being said, I am not driven by racial hatred, therefore I consider that those who value Russian culture and wish to assimilate among Russians, those only are welcome to stay.

    [MORE]

    This invitation to stay does not extend to the likes of the social climber below and her husband:

    (That is what our friend Arik B. considers urban sophistication… Poor him…)

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @Dmitry
  125. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    I wonder what Turkey’s per capita would be, if only the part east of the Bosporus was measured.

  126. Matra says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I think Europeans, particularly Anglos and French, are still sore that, while they betrayed first and announced their betrayal of Czechoslovakia to the whole world, wily Stalin outfoxed them by concluding Molotov-Ribbentrop.

    lol

    Are there people in Russia who actually think this way or just the overcompensating diaspora crowd? Maybe a boomer thing?

    Well, Poland and France got their just deserts at Hitler’s hands. Western Europeans, being sore losers, are domed to whine to the end of times

    You and your sovok friend from Slovakia are the ones who chose to go off topic and whine about it.

    Beyond neocon and Eastern European diaspora circles hardly anyone in Western Europe ever thinks about Russia & WW2/Cold War issues so there’s really no need for your bitterness.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @silviosilver
  127. AaronB says:
    @Hyperborean

    Israelis are a bit more fractured than that, and that generalization doesn’t quite fly.

    There is a segment of the Jewish population, typically Middle Eastern in origin, that is tacky and wears gold chains and is more aggressive and the like. Very similar to the guido Italians in the US. We call them “arsim” – they are the equivalent of the chavs in Britain, and every country has a version of this. The US has quite a big population of this kind of person.

    Anyways, I personally think they are cool and add color and energy to Israel, but no one would describe them as sophisticated lol.

    But the middle and upper class are quote refined and sophisticated in Israel. Either way, this isn’t about the reality of the situation, which is always more nuanced and complex, but about the “symbolism”.

    Jews symbolize something on a mythical level. Blacks symbolize something on a mythical level. Whites symbolize something on a mythical level. Often this has only a tangential relationship to the rich complexity of an actually lived Jewish, black, or white life, but human conflict and attitudes ate often based on the mythical level.

    And for Ano4, the mythical level of Jews and Armenians see to be fueling his attitudes.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @Daniel Chieh
  128. @Matra

    Beyond neocon and Eastern European diaspora circles hardly anyone in Western Europe ever thinks about Russia & WW2/Cold War issues

    Let me correct it for you: “hardly anyone in Western Europe ever thinks”

    If they did think, they wouldn’t enter that slippery slope Europe is on right now, being obsequious imperial vassals, promoting suicidal libtard ideology, and allowing Europe to gradually slide towards Europestan.

    Europe can’t even be allowed to preserve its own cultural monuments: Notre Dame, anyone?

    RIP, Europe, we’ll miss you.

  129. Ano4 says:
    @AaronB

    Another example of urban sophistication according to Arik B:

    🙂

    • Replies: @AaronB
  130. AaronB says:
    @Ano4

    You are quite right, my friend. I do not know who these people are – but certainly there are many primitive and unsophisticated Jews. I have unsophisticated elements in my own personality which I quite like and wish to develop 🙂

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Ano4
  131. @AaronB

    Don’t you ever tire of being wrong?

  132. Max Payne says:

    Jeez. This engagement is boring. It’s like incompetent Israelis are advising Azerbaijan (“charge tanks up hill, totally high IQ bro!”)

    Looking at the topography it seems mountainous. What kind of illiterate mountain assault doesn’t involve airborne/heliborne troops? No rear action operations. No interdiction. Yeah just charge those ATGM hills with tanks. Element of surprise? Psh… Mythbusters proved that once. Military surprise is a hoax.

    Mechanized platoon-level patrols. UAVs and artillery snipes. Now the pussy footin’ air vs anti-air. It’s like watching two old out of shape fucks trying to fight each other. Careful not to break each others hips there.

    2020, the year of the pussy.

    Maybe if I’m lucky US and Russia will enter a nuclear exchange driven by a cabal of rogue Democrats before the election (first by firing a few nukes at Israel to calibrate their targeting systems of course). A gay and fake world like this does not deserve to survive. Let’s all hold hands and pray for a nuclear end. Amen.

  133. @Matra

    Beyond neocon and Eastern European diaspora circles hardly anyone in Western Europe ever thinks about Russia & WW2/Cold War issues so there’s really no need for your bitterness.

    Yeah, no kidding. In all the nationalist forums I have hanged out in over the last decade+, I have never heard anyone voice an opinion remotely resembling what AnonTN claims.

    You sometimes come across arguments that Russians are too alien to be considered European. I never used to give this point of view any credence, but I must admit, the bizarre things I hear from the Russian contingent here are certainly making me wonder.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Ano4
  134. @Ano4

    This being said, I am not driven by racial hatred, therefore I consider that those who value Russian culture and wish to assimilate among Russians, those only are welcome to stay.

    So what would be the test? And how would you enforce it?

    Seems to me, the minute you make “assimilation” and “valuing Russian culture” the standard of who stays and who goes, everyone will “convert” overnight to claiming to be assimilated and professing their profound love for all things Russian.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  135. @silviosilver

    Russians are too alien to be considered European.

    Good for them. They won’t commit cultural suicide, then.

    • Agree: Hugo Silva
  136. ATBOTL says:
    @Tor597

    Armenians and Iranians are ethnic brethren, being both Indo-European. Azeris are Turks.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
  137. ATBOTL says:
    @Tor597

    Armenians and Iranians are ethnic brethren, being both Indo-European. Azeris are Turks.

  138. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    Maria Zakharova – it’s basically a local variant of Jen Psaki, but without the school teacher attractiveness of Jen Psaki.

    Is anyone watching the Trump vs Biden debate this morning?

    Trump was more impressive in the beginning, but his narcissism soon becomes annoying. Biden seems heavily drunk.

    Overall impression of 21st century American politics: angry pensioner vs drunk grandfather.

    • Replies: @Agathoklis
    , @Ano4
    , @AnonFromTN
  139. Dmitry says:
    @Ano4

    There’s a reason to hope that there exists a god or karma – such crimes as making this “film” could not be unpunished

    • Agree: Ano4
  140. @Beckow

    Basically Western countries – primarily the Anglos, but also French and German – are continuing their centuries old policies of eliminating the eastern Christians as an independent civilisation by siding with anyone who fights them. The obsession to destroy Russia at any cost is a major subset of this mentality

    It’s totally ahistorical. Countries (especially ill-defined groups of countries) cannot really maintain such policies. Arguably the West as understood today (i.e. NATO and adjacent countries) didn’t exist before 1945. The West is currently under American domination, or rather under a unified globohomo, but the West has not usually been much unified, nor did it have any kind of a long term policy, let alone a policy of destroying Eastern Christianity.

    It could be argued that “they” (assuming France, Britain and America could be considered an entity) had a policy of destroying Germany (and supporting Russia against Germany, no matter what, including Tsarist and Communist Russia) from the late 19th century until 1945, but even that wasn’t fully consistent and had exceptions. Since 1945 the American dominated West has switched to wanting to destroy or weaken the USSR/Russia, though that hasn’t been very consistent either. (For example the British sold the jet engine to the USSR in the late 1940s, the Americans sold some important technologies for the Soviet MIRV designs, or the Western Europeans bought lots of natural gas from the USSR, they didn’t do anything to save Czechoslovakia from the Soviets, etc. etc.) Arguably due to inertia they have kept this policy after 1991, though it wasn’t very consistent since then either. Also, the Empire is now intent on destroying each independent power center, though not with much consistency either, which is why it is simultaneously sending NGOs to India to weaken them and at the same time selling them weapons to strengthen them, sanctioning Turkey and supporting and using it at the same time, etc.

  141. @Beckow

    UK and France proudly allied with Hitler to point his aggression toward the east

    Also illogical. They were willing to coexist with a strong nationalist Germany (France was uneasy about it, but without British commitment was unwilling to start a war to stop this from happening), while Britain thought that a Germany without a strong navy and confined within its ethnic borders would be a manageable risk. As soon as they realized their miscalculation in March 1939, they issued the infamous guarantee to Poland. If their goal had been a German aggression pointing east, then letting Hitler conquer Czechoslovakia (actually in Munich only a small portion of Czechoslovakia), but not letting him conquer Poland was the most illogical thing to do.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  142. Ano4 says:
    @silviosilver

    So what would be the test?

    For a month make them eat Sschi with black bread and drink Kvass for breakfast, dinner and supper, while reading Shmelyov and listening to Mussogorsky (because reading Dostoevsky and listening to Tchaikovsky would be too easy a test). The ones who don’t quit are ready for assimilation. Others (including ethnic Russians) should be designated potential fifth columnists and sent to build railroads to nowhere in Magadan or any Western country of their choice.

    Just kidding. You ask a good question though. How can we make sure that people pretending to an elite status in a country know, understand (knowing and understanding is not the same thing) and love or at least truly care about the people of that very country?

    I believe combining education with social pressure being part of the the right answer. With the right education, strong social pressure, right incitatives and a few generations of hard work, a Russian nation might be finally born. A lot of people do not understand that because of the peculiarities of the Russian history, the nation building process has never been completed in Russia.

    The Turks, for all their negative ethnic character traits, have achieved just that: building a nation. They started it late, with the Young Turks, it was a bloody affair (Armenian genocide), it involved radical transformation, but in the end it is now impossible to live in Turkey and work against Turkish nation’s interests while still enjoying an elite status. You can be anti-Turk in Turkey, but you will end-up in jail or killed. The nation’s immunity mechanisms are strong today, while they were weak a century ago. This is also true about many other nations: old ones like Armenians, or young ones like Israelis. In former USSR, all former republics are currently completing their nation building and all apply strong social pressure to those who might cause trouble. Arguably the only one which is by and large excluded from this trend is Russia. This is largely due to Russian elites being nepotistic and corrupt clans with many alien diaspora members. It’s the same thing in US of A really.

    Seems to me, the minute you make “assimilation” and “valuing Russian culture” the standard of who stays and who goes, everyone will “convert” overnight to claiming to be assimilated and professing their profound love for all things Russian.

    If only that was true! Unfortunately, history has shown that was not at all the case. Under the last two Tzars and also under Brezhnev (to some extent) the state and society started applying a Russification pressure. What they got in return was Revolution and Perestroika. Large proportions of the Russian establishment have been and are to this very day psychologically unable to love their country as it is and would rather destroy it than change anything about their psychology. They could leave and settle somewhere else, but they would lose their income which is mainly based on extractive exploration of Russian natural and human resources. Also, in the developed world they would not be readily accepted as members of the elite. Therefore they prefer staying in Russia, grabbing the money and spitting on Russian culture, history and people.

    This is a sad state of affairs for all parties involved.

    And again, just to make it crystal clear: it is not a matter of race: Aivazovsky and Fr Florensky were of Armenian origin, Levithan and Pasternak were Jewish, Pushkin was of African descent. They all loved Russia and contributed greatly to its culture. It can be done probably with people of many different origins, but those who insist on being aliens should be absolutely excluded from all decision making positions, whether governmental, economic, social, cultural etc.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @silviosilver
  143. Ano4 says:
    @silviosilver

    We are indeed very different from Western Europeans. Despite four centuries of westernization (Sovietization being the most extreme form of the westernizing process) we are still culturally and mentally distinct. This is one of many reasons why the West and its agents of influence inside Russia are so unhappy with the Russian people.

  144. @ATBOTL

    Religion/religious heritage usually counts above anything else as far as I can see. Most Iranians will side with their fellow Shia Muslim Azeris over Christian Armenians, even though in genetic and cultural terms they probably have more in common with Armenians.

    Likewise, I get the impression that most Russians feel more kinship with Orthodox Greeks than Catholic Poles and Czechs, despite the latter being ethnically a lot closer than Greeks.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  145. @Dmitry

    It is quite sad Russia felt the need to promote this woman. I am sure there are 50 or so more competent men in the foreign ministry or foreign ministry circles. Is she married? She seems to be looking for date with all the change of hairstyles and clothing.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  146. @Agathoklis

    She’s married with one daughter only, according to the internet. I wouldn’t promote a woman without at least two children. Actually, I’d require that of men as well.

    • Replies: @Agathoklis
  147. Beckow could take delight in the fact that the shot down Su-25 has Slovak language inscriptions, due to it being one of the ten Su-25 jets sold by Slovakia to Armenia for a bag of peanuts back in 2004.

  148. Ano4 says:
    @AaronB

    I have unsophisticated elements in my own personality which I quite like and wish to develop

    Of course you do. We all have these elements in our psyche and it is not a bad thing. Too much sophistication and one loses the natural balance. One has to be wild and primitive just enough to stay truly human. Balance is the best in all things.

    I think that trip you did in the North American wilderness was something that has made you feel good. That was the primitive and unsophisticated part of your nature regaining foothold that it deserves.

    Winter is coming, have you done any ski hiking trips? Some of my relatives used to go for a couple of weeks of winter camping and skiing at the Kola peninsula.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Peninsula

    I am not at all familiar with long distance outdoors skiing, but according to what they told me telemark skiing allows for offroad winter adventures even in mountainous areas.

    Perhaps this is something you should try.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @AaronB
  149. Ano4 says:
    @Dmitry

    The picture above is her parents.

  150. A Turkish F-16 just shot down an Armenian SU-25 inside Armenian borders whose pilot was Russian.

    It’s the second instance when the Turks kill a Russian pilot. Not sure if it changes anything for the Russian approach to the war.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  151. @Europe Europa

    Religion/religious heritage usually counts above anything else as far as I can see. Most Iranians will side with their fellow Shia Muslim Azeris over Christian Armenians, even though in genetic and cultural terms they probably have more in common with Armenians.

    Turks accuse Iran of secretly favouring Armenia (for rather sensible reasons).

    However, aside from increasing Turkish nationalism in Azerbaijan, there are also other political reasons for Tehran’s support of Armenia.

    “Reasons like land disputes between the two countries [Iran and Azerbaijan], increasing nationalism among Azeri Turks, issues regarding how to share natural sources of the Caspian Sea, Azerbaijan’s close relations with Israel, [which is an archenemy of Iran across the Middle East] and a political desire to balance Turkey-Azerbaijan relations occasionally lead to some tensions and crisis between Baku and Tehran,” says Aras, the international relations professor.

    https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/what-s-iran-s-role-in-the-armenia-azerbaijan-clash-40114

    Are you enamoured by your high inaccuracy rate?

  152. @reiner Tor

    I agree. That is why Merkel is so dangerous. More generally, single people after the age of 35 (exceptions can be made for the disabled); and worst of all, long-time married couples with no children should be heavily taxed (and passports confisticated) and those proceeds should directly go to families with 5 or more children.

  153. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    I’ve been reading your comments with a lot of interest at this thread. Your ideas seem to me to be more in line with wishful thinking rather than a true examination of how things are and what would need to be done to achieve your idealized vision of “Russia for the Russians, all else leave”. Russia just seems to include way too many different ethnicities to be able to be realistically reformed at this late stage into one large homogenized whole, resembling something one might expect to see in a Russian fairy tale. In this respect it even resembles the USA that has quit developing this sort of a vision in favor of a “rainbow coalition”. Russia is just way too different from Turkey to follow its trajectory of homogenization. Do you really think that whatever amount of authoritarian rule that we see in Russia today will continue to develop after Putin is gone? It would take somebody way right of Putin to be able to pull off the kind of vision that you seem to be proposing. Globalism may have some occasional bumps in the road, but still seems to be the blueprint for future world commerce and development. The Soviet Union was Russia’s last chance to develop this new Russian speaking and thinking Soviet man (even just within Russia).

    • Replies: @Ano4
  154. @Дима Трамп

    That might be true or false. That’s the story the Armenian government promotes to drag Russia into their war. Might be 100% fake. I hope Russian military knows the truth.

  155. @Dmitry

    Is anyone watching the Trump vs Biden debate this morning?

    It was evening my time, but I sure did not watch it. This was essentially Beavis vs Butthead debate, so the chances of either of them saying something worth listening to were zero.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  156. @Ano4

    I would also like to thank AaronB for being, at least, an unique form of Jewish troublemaker. It is a wonderful note to the Karlin blog that even our trolls are superior.

    • Agree: reiner Tor, Ano4, Yevardian
    • LOL: AaronB
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Wielgus
  157. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    You are aware that ethnic Russians form 80% of the population in Russia and that the strongly Russified Tatars and Bashkirs come second ?

    I of course consider Ukrainians of Russia as Russians.

    The only real problem are the Caucasus ethnic groups. I think we should let them go and just keep the areas that have a strong ethnic Russian population majority. That would be the whole of DICh that should be in my humble opinion cut loose.

    We should also strongly encourage the persons who insist on self identifying with these ethnic groups to move back to their regions from Russia proper.

    Basically what I suggest is what Ukrainian nationalists suggest for Ukraine. With one significant difference: if I was an Ukrainian nationalist I would strongly suggest giving Crimea and Donbass independence to avoid having major alien elements in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  158. AaronB says:
    @Ano4

    Well, this is a comment I can agree with completely. The sickness of our civilization is that we live too much in abstract thought.

    Civilization is a human good – but too big a dose, and it makes you ill. And civilizations are always prone to going too far, which is why you need a tonic like Taoism to restore health.

    Yes, my wilderness trip did me incredible good – I am now trying to make this thing a lifestyle and not just a one time “restorative”.

    I have actually for a while been intrigued by snowshoeing and long distance skiing. It’s definitely something I want to try – and this winter is the perfect time.

    Thanks for the recommendation.

  159. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    I of course consider Ukrainians of Russia as Russians.

    Which ones, the gastarbeiters who come and go and spend their money back in Ukraine, or the ones that are too frightened to organize and stand up for their human rights, especially after seeing the few cultural gathering places that they’ve had in the past harrased and closed down?

    • Replies: @Ano4
  160. Mr. Hack says:
    @AnonFromTN

    If you were able to decipher the stereophonic dialogue, there actually was some good elucidation of their differing platforms and stances. It was, however, somewhat painful to watch. 🙁

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  161. Mr. Hack says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    So we have a Chinese troublemaker, a Ukrainian one and now a Jewish one too. Anyone that we’re missing? 🙂

    I find Aaron’s comments to be good and interesting ones. He’s well read and has been around the block. There are much worse commenters that frequent this blogsite.

    • Thanks: AaronB
    • LOL: Ano4, Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    , @Yevardian
  162. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Mr Hack,

    No need to be so worked up about all the human rights nonsense.

    Leave it to the SJW!

    Let’s replace these abstract concepts with tough brotherly love.

    My opinion is: we should treat our Ukrainian brothers in Russia as our Ukrainian brothers treat us Russians and/or Rusyns in Ukraine.

    Perhaps that would benefit both our people in the end and then we might be friends again once the big clean up is done.

    Similia similibus curantur…

    😄

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  163. @Mr. Hack

    Judging by what people say, each preached to his own choir, none said anything new or intelligent. I am no fan of Trump, but in my book, anyone supporting BLM and Antifa is the enemy of the US people and my enemy. If I had to vote, I’d vote Trump. However, in TN I don’t need to get my hands dirty: TN would vote for whoever the Reps bother to nominate.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  164. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    My opinion is: we should treat our Ukrainian brothers in Russia as our Ukrainian brothers treat us Russians and/or Rusyns in Ukraine.

    Are Russians being treated badly in Ukraine? Are “Rusyns” also being treated unfairly? Don’t conflate the two, they’re really two distinct groups.

    Perhaps that would benefit both our people in the end and then we might be friends again once the big clean up is done.

    Why are all of these “cleanups” done at the point of Russian tank in favor of Russian policies?

    • Replies: @Ano4
  165. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Russians being treated badly in Ukraine

    Since you ask:

    [MORE]

    https://maysuryan.livejournal.com/878784.html

    https://i.mycdn.me/i?r=AEHbyUWhePxsnNoQDZXr8-KhjuWSQ81RqCHlsajgCroBggVPcf9G4–1W5B7xvu_dtG9kU-Y7IHDBgcUk4EE5BDv&i=1&fn=external_8

    Is it enough for your human rights loving personality, or should I add more?

    Why are all of these “cleanups” done at the point of Russian tank in favor of Russian policies

    Where did you see Russian tanks, Mr Hack?

    🙂

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Mr. Hack
  166. Wielgus says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Really? Because Taubman is mediocrity personified.

  167. Mr. Hack says:
    @AnonFromTN

    However, in TN I don’t need to get my hands dirty: TN would vote for whoever the Reps bother to nominate.

    I’m pretty sure that it’s the other way around. The “Reps” are obligated to vote for whomever wins the general election in the state:

    .[1] Tennessee voters will choose electors to represent them in the Electoral College via a popular vote. The state of Tennessee has 11 electoral votes in the Electoral College.[2] </blockquote

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Tennessee#cite_note-1

    11 electoral votes is nothing to sneeze at – another good reason for you to get out of your damp basement laboratory and walk to the voting booth on November 3 and cast your ballot.

  168. @Ano4

    Where did you see Russian tanks, Mr Hack?

    There is Russian joke about it.
    A Jew who emigrated to Israel calls his friend who is still in Ukraine.
    – How are thing going in Ukraine?
    – Men, Ukraine is in a war with Russia.
    – How is that war going, then?
    – Ukraine lost thousands of soldiers, lots of artillery pieces, tanks, and airplanes.
    – What about Russia?
    – Russia never showed up for the war.

    • Agree: Ano4
  169. @AnonFromTN

    It’s been confirmed.

    Today the Russian MFA issued a statement condemning the use of Islamic jihadis by Azerbaijan. It’s going to be interesting to see what actions will be taken against those 1,000 or so salafis.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  170. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    For some reason, Big Brother YouTube has blocked my access to the video and the link too. Please tell me more?..

    • Replies: @Ano4
  171. @Dmitry

    Turkey and China will grow plus or minus an Erdogan.

  172. Beckow says:
    @reiner Tor

    You are mixing assumed motivations with what actually happened. UK-France in September 1939 did not fight a war against Germany. Declaring a war and not fighting it, while the war was raging in the east against Poland was exactly what I meant by ‘pointing Germany towards the east‘.

    In Munich Czechoslovakia was destroyed, there was no saving it after that although it took another 6 months. UK and France knew this.

    The centuries long Western policy of eliminating or marginalizing smaller Eastern European nations (plus Russia, and Byzantium before that) has meant that they constantly allied with the Ottomans or any devil they could think off, e.g. Al Queda in the 90’s Bosnia. (Germany too when they are in good standing, as for example now.) You can always find exceptions and I agree that there were internal rivalries, e.g. France for a few decades worried more about Germany than the east. But the pattern over the centuries is there: ask an average establishment Anglo where his sympathies lie, he will always pick Nigerian or Pakistani over Russian, Greek or Pole. If Anglos had their dream world, Crimea would be neither Russian nor Ukrainian, but ‘Tatar’.

    As a Magyar you might be torn by mixed messaging and the fact that Magyars were often seen as a disruptive element in the east. But at the end you are as much an easterner as we are and if Macron could dilute you with a bunch of Senegalese he would. Not knowing when people just don’t like you is a major problem.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    , @reiner Tor
  173. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    All you need to do is click on the button that will lead you to the video directly on YouTube.

    It was a video about the House of Trade Unions mass killing in Odessa in 2014.

    I personally know people from Odessa and they have confirmed me the Russian version of events, with one important detail: the Odessite Anti-Maidan activists attacked the march of the Ukrainian Nationalist Ultras first, before the burning of the House of the Trade Unions. Some of the people in the House were Anti-Maidan activists, other were simply Russian-speaking activists who fled the attack upon their Kulikovo Poley meeting site by the Pravyi Sektor and the Ultras.

    Of course, when the Ultras and Pravyi Sektor started throwing Molotov cocktails at the building, firing at the people in the windows and beating up those who tried to escape the flames, it was too late to make the difference between those who manifested peacefully for the rights of Russian-speaking Odessites (that would be 99% of the population) and the direct action Anti-Maidan activists. Anyways I am pretty sure the Ultras and Pravyi Sektor guys and girls (many of them teenagers) were not really interested into finding who’s who among these Колорады…

    I could add many stories like this, for example the massacre of the policemen in Maryupol by Ukrainian nationalists. The policemen were seen as too lenient towards the Russian-speaking anti-Maidan activists. But you probably get the picture by now: any time Russian speakers tried to stand up against the Maidan people the Russian activists got killed and maimed. That is until they took up the arms in Slavyansk.

    To summarise my opinion is: if one is an Ukrainian nationalist and doesn’t decry the shelling of civilian Russian-speaking areas in Donbass, then one should at least have the decency to not shed crocodile tears about the state of human rights in Russia.

    What is considered good for Ukrainian nationalists, should also be seen as right and proper for Russian nationalists. So if one doesn’t see Azov Battalion, C14, Misanthropic Division and Pravyi Sektor as thugs and criminals, then one should not worry too much about what Russian nationalists could do or not do one day to Ukrainians in Russia proper.

    As the saying goes: what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

    About the tanks, this story has been debunked a long time ago.

    On the other hand in the news today:

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/6207450.html

    And to end this lengthy reply, the only place where Russian tanks really showed up on the streets, that is in Crimea, there were no no shelling of civilian areas, no people burned alive and no atrocities committed.

    Now that I think about it, from the point of view of human rights, maybe Russian tanks should have also marched into Odessa. I am pretty sure that would have saved many lives…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  174. Ano4 says:
    @Дима Трамп

    The second Turkish tomatoes boycott is eminent…

  175. @Mr. Hack

    Anyone that we’re missing?

    [MORE]

  176. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    I had in mind the day-to-day relations between Ukrainians and Russians in parts of Ukraine that aren’t subject to war or occupation.

    War zones throughout history have always brought out the worst in people. I remember reading accounts of the Trade Union Building in Odessa, and remember getting different slants from different sources. I also remember reading some pretty detailed accounts of the events here by AP who seems to have researched the events quite thoroughly. His input here would be valuable but he seems to have taken an extended vacation? In any case, reviewing the worst and most savage occurrences during 2014 makes little sense today.

    It looks to me like the day-to-day activities of the Lesya Ukrainka National Academic Theater of Russian Drama in Kyiv is running its activities relatively unhampered. You can even view a play starting tomorrow there, that seems to indicate that things have lightened up in Odessa since 2014:

    • Replies: @Ano4
  177. Jazman says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You are correct , just two years ago they wanted Russians out and now they cry

  178. El Dato says:
    @Europe Europa

    Christians are pacifists

    Nope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kataeb_Regulatory_Forces

    Meanwhile, Azeris and their Turkish advisors may be setting themselves up for a little thermobaric removal:

    Russia ‘deeply concerned’ about reports of mercenaries from Syria & Libya being sent to fight in disputed Nagorno-Karabakh

    I don’t think irregular islamic terrorfags will be allowed to operate in those regions.

  179. Coconuts says:
    @Beckow

    But the pattern over the centuries is there: ask an average establishment Anglo where his sympathies lie, he will always pick Nigerian or Pakistani over Russian, Greek or Pole. If Anglos had their dream world, Crimea would be neither Russian nor Ukrainian, but ‘Tatar’.

    What you say here about establishment Anglos is probably true of the present, but I don’t know if it has a deep past beyond the middle of the 19th century. (In early medieval times Anglos are known for constituting one of the elite guard units of the Byzantine Empire, for example. And as far as the Hapsburgs and their kingdoms go, most of the time Anglos were their allies against the French.)

    It seems like the only reason that most British these days will pick Nigerians and Pakistanis is media/social pressure and expectation coming from higher levels of society, and maybe that some of the ones in Britain have native level fluency in English. I don’t think you could have experience of Russia, Greece or Poland and believe that Nigeria or Pakistan has greater affinity and closeness with traditional British culture than the other European countries.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @Seraphim
    , @Yevardian
  180. Beckow says:
    @Coconuts

    The early medieval Anglo guards (more like Vikings) in Byzantium were 1,000 years ago. I don’t aspire to go that far back. But Byzantium was almost destroyed by the Frankish knights during the Crusades (13th century) before it was fully destroyed by the Ottomans. Habsburgs were very much a part of the Western drive towards the east, in practise its main proponents for centuries.

    In any conflict in the last few hundred years the Anglo instinct was to side with the Turks or the devil himself. Take for example the fact that for 200 years Anglos have supported the Crimean Tatar or Circassians slave raiders. Look up what Crimean War was all about. It is an unending pattern with very few exceptions. We saw it in the 90’s in Yugoslavia where any Moslem group, no matter how small, was supported militantly by Anglos and French (and Germans) against the majority local Christian population.

    I think the excuse of media-social pressure is a bit of a tautology and a cop-out. My experience dealing with establishment Anglos is that most have fully internalized the media nonsense. So it is not clear who is putting pressure on whom. The constant prattle about ‘diversity’ and ‘Roma suffering’ and constant attempts to rewrite history (‘WWII was won by the Normandy invasion’. Right.) This is not a shallow, surface, accidental idea – it seems at the core of Anglo self-image and education. What I find amusing is the simultaneous desire to possibly move and interact with our societies. A schizofrenia caused by a f..ed-up situation at home and an unwillingness to admit it.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @Coconuts
  181. @Ano4

    If only that was true! Unfortunately, history has shown that was not at all the case.

    Let me explain what I meant by “they would convert overnight.”

    I was being flippant with my questions about what standards you would apply because, having given the matter considerable thought myself over the years, I really don’t believe there any ‘techniques’ you can apply to either (a) reliably distinguish those who are ‘truly’ assimilated and love your country from those who don’t or (b) to force people to assimilate and develop a love of your country.

    Given (a) and (b), I therefore conclude that if you passed a law requiring assimilation, and credibly threatened to expel those who don’t assimilate, all you’ll achieve is phony proclamations of assimilation – and masses of them. After all, it’s much easier to remain ethnocentric and tell your overlord what he wants to hear than to subject yourself to deportation. Would the actual behavior of the newly assimilated Russians (in your case) fundamentally alter much? I suspect that it would not.

    None of this is to suggest that assimilation is never possible. Of course it is. It has occurred quite reliably throughout history. But is a long, arduous process, extending well beyond the lifetime of any living generation. It is not something you can simply order up on demand, no matter how much political will there is behind the initiative.

    American assimilation fairytales are largely a function of Jewish media preponderance – Jews understood/stand better than anybody the urgent need to present immigrants as ‘assimilated’ – and diehard liberal optimism. Also, the extreme focus on ‘anti-racism’ and multiculturalism has had the effect of lowering people’s standards for what they’re willing to regard as assimilated. That is, if your society makes it clear that there’s no one cultural standard that all people required to adhere to, then it’s easy to regard other people as “yeah, they pretty different, but that’s okay, we’re still the same in the ways that really matter.” Despite all this, I would still say it took all the way to Gen X or even the early millennials for people whose roots date back to the 1890-1920 immigration wave to be really considered assimilated.

    In Australia, it’s only become common in the last, say, ten or fifteen years to regard the southern and southeastern Europeans who came in a wave after WW2 as assimilated. To me, this change in sentiment feels like it happened virtually overnight, as though I’ve witnessed mythmaking unfold before my very eyes. One minute almost nobody thought we were assimilated and many (most?) still greatly resented our presence, and the next minute I find myself being congratulated that “when you guys came, at least you assimilated” (ie we’re being favorably contrasted to the more recent arrivals, who are even more culturally and racially rebarbative, such as muslims and africans).

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    , @Daniel Chieh
  182. @Beckow

    and constant attempts to rewrite history (‘WWII was won by the Normandy invasion’. Right.)

    Name one historian who has attempted that argument.

    Or perhaps you weren’t thinking of historians, but simply statements bandied about by people. In that case, are you sure you’re not just hearing things? Maybe people are just taking pride in the role their country played in the war or showing more interest in their own country’s sacrifices rather than claiming it was D-Day that actually won the war, by itself. In my experience, the most I’ve encountered is an underappreciation of the Soviet role, not arguments that it was secondary to American/Britain.

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @AnonFromTN
  183. @silviosilver

    One minute almost nobody thought we were assimilated and many (most?) still greatly resented our presence, and the next minute I find myself being congratulated that “when you guys came, at least you assimilated” (ie we’re being favorably contrasted to the more recent arrivals, who are even more culturally and racially rebarbative, such as muslims and africans).

    A sign of assimilation/acceptance or simple pragmatism on the part of AngloCeltic majority?

    I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  184. I don’t think you could have experience of Russia, Greece or Poland and believe that Nigeria or Pakistan has greater affinity and closeness with traditional British culture than the other European countries.

    That question works both ways though, who does the average Russian see as having greater cultural affinity with them, a Briton or a Kazakh/Central Asian?

    • Replies: @Ano4
  185. I think someone mentioned Greeks have not done much for Armenia recently. Here is an article on Greek training of Armenian special forces and the training of many Armenian officers in Greek military schools such as Evelpidon.

    https://infognomonpolitics.gr/2020/09/ellines-ekpaideftes-ton-armenion-komantos/

    Members of the Greek foreign ministry including the foreign minister are expected in Yerevan in the next few days.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  186. Beckow says:
    @silviosilver

    ….I’ve encountered is an underappreciation of the Soviet role, not arguments that it was secondary to American/Britain.

    You need to get out more.

    Before the corona panic I browsed the Waterstones WWII section, there were books on Normandy, Dunkirk, Auschwitz, North Africa, etc… The “East” was represented by a few books centered around ‘Ribbentrop&Molotov’ Pact, a few books on how horrible losses Red Army had, some with scenarios on how Germany could have won if they just played it smarter. There was literally not a single straightforward book that would simply cover Soviet-German war and the resulting victory. And not any books on Munich. Oh, and there was a book on ‘the rapes‘ by Red Army. Maybe even two. So much for the British historians. I am assuming those texts are what is used in Britain’s universities. It certainly seems reflected in the popular culture and political speeches.

    Statements ‘bandied about by people‘ are actually more varied. Although there is an unseemly urge by some to express their sorrow for the ‘unfortunate result of WWII for your countries‘, blabla, wink-wink. I get that we all mytholigize what we are close to. What I find amusing is that the same people who can’t stop yelling about ‘propaganda’ when others mytholigize, are very blase about accepting it at home. Even pretend not to see it. A very British mental disorder.

  187. Avery says:
    @AnonFromTN

    {It’s the second instance when the Turks kill a Russian pilot. Not sure if it changes anything for the Russian approach to the war.} wrote poster [Дима Трамп]

    {That might be true or false. That’s the story the Armenian government promotes to drag Russia into their war. Might be 100% fake……….} replied poster [AnonFromTN]

    That’s the story the Armenian government promotes to drag Russia into their war. Wow.

    The pilot of the Su-25 was Major Valeri Danelin, pilot of the Armed Forces of Armenia.
    Obviously an ethnic Slav/Russian, but a citizen of RoA. So, not technically a ‘Russian’ (i.e. a citizen of RF). There are lots of ethnic Russians living in Armenia; been there for generations.

    As to the part about dragging Russia into their war: Armenia does not need to, quote, drag RF into its war. Armenia can officially request RF’s military help by Treaty, which Yerevan has officially stated it has no intention of doing. (yes, I know things can change).

    And it is absurd of you to think Armenia’s leadership would think that if they made up a Russian name for the killed pilot, Russia would immediately drag itself into the Azerbaijan/Turk war of aggression. Everybody and his brother knows Russia did not do much of anything when Turks boasted about shooting down a Russian jet and killing its Russian pilots. So, please.

    Finally, let my ask you though: do you think it’s wise of Kremlin to allow NATO member Turkey to establish itself militarily right under Russia’s nose and freely operate F-16s against Russia’s ally in the Caucasus? Maybe you think Russia should just abandon Caucasus: NATO secretary general has officially declared that Georgia should prepare itself for membership.For all practical purposes Georgia is lost to the Globalists. Who knows, maybe Kremlin wants to go back to the bad old days and fighting GloboSoros Muslim hordes just outside Moscow.

    And I am sure you know Russian history better than me: Tsarist Russia expanded South to Caucasus 200 years ago because of threats from the (Muslim) South to its heartland security.

    • Agree: Jazman
    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @AnonFromTN
  188. Ano4 says:
    @Europe Europa

    I guess this might help answer your question:

    Mongolian honour guard standing during the opening ceremony of a new monument dedicated to Marshal Zhukov.

    Communal services dismantling a Memory Stone to Marshal Zhukov in Odessa to please the Ukrainian nationalists who have been placed into power by the West.

    Red Army soldiers monument defaced in Sofia: top to show support to Ukrainian Maidan, middle to show support to LGBTQ rights in Russia, bottom probably just for Lulz or to lick their Western masters’ arses.

    https://www.rferl.org/a/marshal-konev-makes-triumphant-return-to-prague/30690108.html

    Marshal Konev statue removed and mocked in Prague to please Western Globohomo’s minions.

    So who should Russians feel closer to?

    Rhetorical question.

    And that’s Slavic countries, imagine how the Russians are perceived further West.

    How can we possibly feel close to any of you?

    I prefer these guys to any of you people:

    They ‘re normal, not neurotic and abnormal degenerates…

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
  189. @Carlo

    It’s so true. Knaves think “orthodox” is about beards and hats, lump Monophysites in with the Orthodox church because they have the “O” word in their names.

    The Armenian divergence is radically deeper than the East/West split. There was still a fricken Western Roman Empire when the Armenians broke off. Islam didn’t even exist! Still I would want to see the Armenians embarrass those dirty Turkified Iranians.

    Slava Armenia!

  190. Can I just come out and say it?

    Azerbaijanis are c*nts.

    Long past time they went back to Eye-ran, and learned to speak a proper IE language.

    • LOL: Ano4
  191. Ano4 says:
    @Avery

    GloboSoros Muslim hordes

    Could you please explain how you came to lump Jihadist and Libtard freaks together in a single oxymoron?

    This is an intellectual feat I want to understand so I can perhaps reproduce it (sarcasm).

    BTW, didn’t you guys have a sorosoïd color revolution two years ago ?

    Didn’t you ask the Gumri base expelled?

    Didn’t you people try to suck up to Armenian diaspora in the West to try earning some investments?

    How did it work for you?

    Perhaps you and Georgians ⁹are the Globohomo’s horde in the Caucasus, although not a Muslim one…

    • Replies: @Avery
  192. Coconuts says:
    @Beckow

    I think the excuse of media-social pressure is a bit of a tautology and a cop-out. My experience dealing with establishment Anglos is that most have fully internalized the media nonsense.

    It is clearly media narrative though. Pretty much no Anglo who lives around Polish. Lithuanians, Greeks etc. and Pakistanis simultaneously will say that the Pakistanis are closer to Anglo culture or more obviously sympathetic. Only a minority would be likely to do this, people who have seriously internalized diversity ideology or have some other reason, length of contact with Pakistanis or maybe financial reasons for it.

    What I find amusing is the simultaneous desire to possibly move and interact with our societies.

    What specifically you are thinking of when you talk about your societies? In the case of EU Eastern Europe, being an Anglo you can’t avoid interacting with ‘your societies’ when they turn up in numbers in your home town, the street where you live, the place where you work etc. The people I hear talking about moving to places like Poland and Hungary are never interested in the diversity agenda or Roma rights.

  193. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    If by the part subjected to occupation you mean Crimea, then the relations between the Moskal’ and Khokhol tribes of the Rus nation are just fine there.

    I would also add that Crimean Tatars who stayed home also are doing rather well since 2014. Those who ran to Kiev and the rest of Ukraine not so much.

    No Evil Russians burning Ukrainians and Tatars alive in Crimea.

    I wonder why…

    • Agree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  194. @silviosilver

    Propaganda works. Even blatantly lying propaganda. This poll
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11590755/Poll-US-did-more-than-UK-and-USSR-to-defeat-Nazi-Germany.html
    says that many people believe that the US did more than the USSR to defeat Nazi Germany.

  195. Avery says:
    @Ano4

    {Could you please explain how you came to lump Jihadist and Libtard freaks together in a single oxymoron?This is an intellectual feat I want to understand so I can perhaps reproduce it (sarcasm).}

    Your sarcasm addled brain would be unable to understand,.

    {BTW, didn’t you guys have a sorosoïd color revolution two years ago ?}

    Nope. Despite demagogue Pashynian bloviating about a so-called “Velvet Revolution”, there was nothing of the sort. People were tired, people wanted change, Sargisian made a few unforced errors, and there was a peaceful transition. People have already become tired of irrational Pashynian, so we’ll see.

    {Didn’t you ask the Gumri base expelled?}

    Nope: a Russian soldier went AWOL from the Russian base and massacred an entire Armenian family. Western funded agitators used the opportunity, made a lot of noise, but were silenced by the locals.


    {Didn’t you people try to suck up to Armenian diaspora in the West to try earning some investments?}

    Who is this ‘you people’, homes?
    I am Armenian Diaspora. Living in Los Angeles.
    We happily invest all we can in Armenia and Artsakh.
    So what’s your problem.

    {How did it work for you?}

    Quite good.
    Amongst many other infrastructures, a new strategic highway connecting Armenia to Artsakh was funded through Armenian Diaspora donations (Russia, Europe, US, Canada,….)
    Check it out:
    http://asbarez.com/136366/vardenis-martakert-highway-set-for-operation-in-2016/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=6_UFQ_sWxCs&feature=emb_logo

    {Perhaps you and Georgians ⁹are the Globohomo’s horde in the Caucasus, although not a Muslim one…}

    Perhaps you and your ilk are the real Globohomos?

    Glad you asked all those deeply intellectual questions.
    Happy I was able to try – just try – to help, although doubtful your few brain cells already deteriorated with the sarcasmovirus can really learn much of anything.

  196. @Avery

    FYI, Turkey had a spat with the US recently, and is currently having a bitter spat with France. So, NATO membership of Turkey is a good way of blowing up NATO from inside. Which is probably Putin’s game.

    ODKB treaty applies only if Armenia proper as attacked. FYI, even Armenia did not officially recognize Karabakh/Artsakh. So, why should anyone stick his neck for it?

    As to Armenia proper, after 2018 color revolution there Russian public’s attitude changed dramatically. Personally, I do not think they deserve help unless they overthrow Pashinian and his Soros-linked scum. Some go even further, saying that Azeri tanks in Yerevan are preferable to helping Pashinian’s Armenia (if you can read Russian, here is the link to one of many publications saying just that: https://rusvesna.su/news/1601503347).

    Georgia cannot become NATO member under current rules: it has territorial disputes. So, either the Empire changes those rules and dooms NATO credibility, or (more likely) they will keep dangling this carrot under the big noses of stupid Georgians and “help” Georgia like Bush Jr did in 2008, by raising stink and nothing else. Not to mention that Georgia imports more than half of the food it consumes from Russia. If it becomes NATO member, its owners would have to feed it. Fat chance. The US has never spent a penny on helping aborigines, whether subservient or not. MIC profiteers won’t share their loot with anyone.

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @Exile
  197. @AnonFromTN

    Turkey has made so many enemies lately … if they would all gang up on it …

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  198. @silviosilver

    The overall verve of Russian culture is so different that I’m not sure what you said quite applies. For example:

    That is, if your society makes it clear that there’s no one cultural standard that all people required to adhere to, then it’s easy to regard other people as “yeah, they pretty different, but that’s okay, we’re still the same in the ways that really matter.”

    That’s such an individualistic mindset.

    Its more a culture that questions if you’re actually a man if you aren’t willing to sit overheated while other men beat you up with branches and you mock them for hitting you like a girl, or maybe eating fruits as breakfast suggests that you are fruity and gay. In some ways, it can be rather less Western insofar as it is rather focused with context and any number of seemingly shifting rules of appropriate behavior.

    Its not really something that’s easily gamed. To an extent, this shouldn’t be alien to you, once the West had a lot of protocol too and the fact that it has all rather melded into a liberal mess is quite unfortunate and a loss of a lot of beauty.

    • Agree: Ano4
  199. Exile says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Attempting to bring Georgia into NATO would be as strategically untenable and intolerable as Belarus. It would be like Putin trying to Finlandize the American state of Georgia. So of course some of these neo-con nutjobs are all for it.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  200. Wielgus says:
    @Agathoklis

    I walked along Evelpidon Street in Athens about an hour and a half ago and there is some kind of military establishment there. Guards behind the gate tensed as I walked past even though I was there purely by chance. Perhaps something is going on there.
    However, Turkey can’t do too many things at once and if it becomes preoccupied with Armenia, it is likely to be less threatening to Greece. The Greek government might actually prefer Turkey to turn east. Anyway, we’ll soon find out.

  201. Wielgus says:

    https://news.antiwar.com/2020/09/30/israel-is-sending-weapons-to-azerbaijan-as-fight-with-armenia-continues/
    Also a Turkish newspaper, the daily Yeni Şafak, has accused Iran of supporting Armenia. It is close to the AKP so it is likely to be channeling Erdoğan.

  202. Seraphim says:
    @Coconuts

    ‘Anglos’ make too much out of the ‘Varangian Guard’/Τάγμα τῶν Βαραγγῶν, Tágma tōn Varángōn, which consisted initially of ‘Rus’ Varangians offered by the Grand Prince Vladimir to his brother-in-law the Emperor Basil II. The ‘Anglos’ who fled England after the conquest of William went to Constantinople, where a group was recruited in the existing Varangian Guard. Other traditions mentioned in Icelandic Chronicles say that another group was granted land “6 days north and north-east of Constantinople” which be roughly somewhere in Southern Russia, but the English “did not adopt “St Paul’s law” (the Eastern rite liturgy), but instead sought bishops and other clergymen from the Kingdom of Hungary”.
    Interesting is that the daughter of King Harold Godwinson, Gytha of Wessex, who fled to Denmark, ended up as the first wife of the Grand Prince Vladimir Monomakh.

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @Coconuts
  203. @Dmitry

    2. In terms of external appearance. Armenians and Azerbaijanis are the same appearance. I’m no expert, but I guess Armenians are a very ancient and ethnically pure population, and they look like they have racially homogenized in the light brown colour.

    Vasily Grossman thought differently when touring Armenia in the early 60s:

    SURPRISINGLY, many Armenians have blond hair and gray or blue eyes. I saw fair-haired children in the village. I saw a sweet little four-year-old girl called Ruzana who had pale blue eyes and golden hair. I saw faces with a classic, antique beauty, perfect ovals, with small straight noses and pale-blue almond-shaped eyes. I saw people with high cheekbones, flattened noses, and slightly slanting eyes; I saw people with elongated, sharp faces and huge, sharp, hooked noses; I saw people whose hair was so black as to be almost blue, with eyes like coals; I saw the thin lips of Jesuits and the thick protuberant lips of Africans.

    Nevertheless, there is such a thing as a national type.

    And it is hard to say which is the more surprising: this diversity or the stubborn persistence of the national type.

    The diversity, I suppose, reflects thousands of years of raids and invasions, of people being taken captive, of commercial and cultural encounters. Here we can see all the other people with whom the Armenians came into contact: Assyrians and Babylonians; the ancient Greeks; Persians, Turks, and Slavs; the fearsome Mongols. The Armenians are an ancient nation, with thousands of years of culture and history. They have lived through many wars. They are a traveling nation, a nation that has borne the yoke of the invader for many centuries, a nation that has more than once struggled to win its freedom only to fall back again into slavery. Perhaps this is the reason for all the flattened Mongolian noses, the Assyrian jet-black hair, the pale-blue Greek eyes,[8] and coal-black Persian eyes.

    Interestingly, all this diversity—fair and dark hair, pale-blue and black eyes, and so on—is particularly evident in the countryside, in villages whose way of life is inward-looking and patriarchal. Here, at least, it cannot be the reflection of any recent events. The mirror that shows us the face of contemporary Armenia has been polished in the depth of time.

    The same can be said of Russian faces and—still more—of Jewish faces. There is certainly nothing uniform about Russian faces. There are Russians with gray or light-blue eyes, with snub noses and flaxen hair; there are Russians with hooked noses, so-called “Gypsies,” with southern, black eyes and pitch-black curls; and there are Russians with high cheekbones, flattened noses, and narrow Mongol eyes. And as for the Jews! Black-haired, hook-nosed, snub-nosed, swarthy, blue-eyed, fair-haired. . . . Faces that look Asian, African, Spanish, German, Slav. . . .

    The longer a nation’s history, the more wars, invasions, wanderings, and periods of captivity it has seen—the greater the diversity of its faces. Throughout centuries and millennia victors have spent the night in the homes of those they have defeated. This diversity is the story of the crazed hearts of women who passed away long ago, of the wild passions of soldiers intoxicated by victory, of the miraculous tenderness of some foreign Romeo towards some Armenian Juliet.

    [8] Sic!

  204. Coconuts says:
    @Seraphim

    It is interesting about King Harold’s daughter. Personally at least I’ve never heard the Varangian guard mentioned outside of gaming contexts, yesterday evening must be the first time I’ve done it.

  205. @Beckow

    silviosilver is a retarded crypto-Croat cuck that unironically believes in shit like “Srebrenica genocide” (I wonder what he thinks of “Khojaly genocide” considering he literally thinks Azeris are slime lol).

    Don’t even bother trying to explain anything to him …

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  206. @Blinky Bill

    Haha, good old Con the Fruiter, I’d recognize him anywhere. Was the Comedy Company actually funny? I remember laughing as a kid, but I recently watched some old Benny Hill clips and I found them mostly silly rather than funny. I wonder if I’d have the same reaction to the Comedy Company.

    To answer your question, it’s a simple enough thing to talk up the assimilation level of a group you like in order to be able bitch about a group you don’t like. I see this tactic employed a lot when people are trying to make a statement about race or immigration but they don’t want to sound racist. (And it’s more subtle than the classic “I’m not racist, but….”) Still, the idea that anyone claiming the Vietnamese are assimilated truly considers them ‘true blue’ Aussies no different to himself is plainly daft; they either have in mind a radically bargained down standard of ‘assimilation’ or they’re simply full of shit.

    That said, I’m sure there is much more genuine acceptance and appreciation today than ever before. Not everyone with something nice to say about another group is laying it on thick.

  207. Yevardian says:
    @AnonFromTN

    They outlawed TV in Russian in Armenia.

    I don’t like Pashinyan either, but this is blatantly false. The previous people had to go however, domestically they were a disaster. Unfortunately Putin has rather poor taste in allies and always prefers it when the usual post-Soviet thieves dig in rather than recognise the gig is up, the devil you know and all that.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  208. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Please, as if I’d ever describe it as a ‘genocide.’ Did it actually happen as they say? I really don’t know. I became a doubter in the early 2000s, when I had more nationalistic feelings, based on arguments I read; but given the sources, I later reconsidered. (This must be when I turned into a “crypto-Croat” lol.) Basically, it’d neither shock me if did happen, nor would it shock me if it didn’t. Most importantly, I really don’t care either way.

  209. @Beckow

    Before the corona panic I browsed the Waterstones WWII section, there were books on Normandy, Dunkirk, Auschwitz, North Africa, etc…

    Well, you’ve got me there. That is scandalous. I am just shocked that a British bookstore would stock more titles discussing campaigns in which British soldiers actually fought than campaigns in which they didn’t. That could only be the result of a dastardly plot to deceive the British public about who was really responsible for winning the war. The attempt to maximize book sales couldn’t possibly have anything to do with it.

    So much for the British historians. I am assuming those texts are what is used in Britain’s universities.

    You saw nothing else on offer at Waterstones, therefore you conclude that such books simply don’t exist. I’m amazed you can say this with a straight face.

    A very British mental disorder.

    Nope, a very human failing, nothing peculiarly British about it.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  210. @Beckow

    There was literally not a single straightforward book that would simply cover Soviet-German war and the resulting victory. And not any books on Munich. Oh, and there was a book on ‘the rapes‘ by Red Army

    This is just nonsense, especially the part about Munich. I have literally never seen a physical book in Britain, in bookshops, second-hand bookshops or university libraries, not that there would be anything wrong with it if there were, but Munich has always been a popular subject for British historians to write about since Michael Foot’s Guilty Men; just recently two non-academic books came out about it – The End is Nigh by Roger Crowcroft and Neville Chamberlain’s Legacy by Nicholas Milton.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  211. Yevardian says:
    @Mr. Hack

    You forgot ‘Russia needs to nuke Israel’ utu, who seems be somewhere from the Visegrad group, but he could be trolling from anywhere really. But he also occasionally makes some high-quality posts containing obscure information, and he seems mathematically literate unlike much of this site, so who knows.

    I don’t think this blog has any really bad commenters except the usual butthurt Indians, you have to go elsewhere like Steve Sailer’s blog to see the real retards here.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  212. Yevardian says:
    @Coconuts

    England was (mostly by choice) generally irrelevant within mainland European politics and culture until the 19th Century.

  213. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    If by the part subjected to occupation you mean Crimea, then the relations between the Moskal’ and Khokhol tribes of the Rus nation are just fine there.

    Not according to the U.N.’s summary notes of plenary session 58-59 held in February of this year where:

    “Large-scale violations of human rights and fundamental freedoms by the occupying Power continue in Crimea, he said, spotlighting discrimination against Crimean Tatars, Ukrainians and various ethnic and religious minorities, including Muslims and members of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine. International solidarity and the promotion of human rights are the only way to stop such discrimination and aggression…France’s delegation said that the Russian Federation’s violation of fundamental rights and basic freedoms in Ukraine target those who “dare to raise their voice against the annexation of Crimea”. Punishments meted out include extrajudicial executions and enforced disappearances, he said…In a similar vein, the Netherlands delegate called upon the Russian Federation to allow human rights monitors to enter Crimea, noting that a recent Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) report revealed that the human rights situation there was deeply concerning…

    As for Turkey:

    Turkey’s delegate, noting that his country currently hosts more than 3 million Crimean Tatars, highlighted their plight. Six years after the annexation, which led to the exodus of more than 25,000 Crimean Tatars, the activities of the Mejlis are still banned, while some of their leaders are still barred from entering Crimea. The Crimean Tatars that remain are targeted by the occupying Power, he said, pledging Turkey’s full support for their rights and calling for the release of political prisoners.

    Read it and weep: https://www.un.org/press/en/2020/ga12241.doc.htm

    • LOL: Ano4, AnonFromTN, JL
    • Replies: @Ano4
  214. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    As soon as I read about the Netherlands envoy I just started laughing.

    Just couldn’t help myself…

    😄

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  215. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    Be careful that you don’t end up like this guy…

    • Replies: @Ano4
  216. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    I’ll do my best. Although I must confess that in the current year it’s hard to keep taking this whole mess seriously. Especially the Globohomo’s Western degenerate stuff. Netherlands a.s.o.

    To stay serious one has to turn to the wisdom of our elders. I think you might find the Old Believer song below inspiring in its Tuvan rendition. In case you have trouble understanding the lyrics, someone has posted an English translation in the comments:

    I guess that’s a song the Netherland’s envoy to the UN wouldn’t have licked. BTW, what is the native Dutch TFR again?

    😉

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Mikhail
  217. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    What’s your beef with the Netherland’s envoy, anyway? The French and Turkish guys get a green light?

    You seem way too concerned about sodomy lately? I’d suggest that you look into the features of male chastity belts, that seem to cover both the front and back areas? It might be all that you need. 🙂

    • Replies: @Ano4
  218. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    This song is not about gays it is about the destruction of the societies and cultures that wander too far into the unnatural. Some 500 years ago the Dutch were the first to kickstart the hedonistic model of society that has completed its evolution and is drawing to a close in the West today.

    Like a tulip, the Dutch literally flourished to disappear. In a couple of generations native Dutch will be 30% of the population there. And yet they feel entitled to lecture the whole world about this and that.

    They are basically high IQ idiots. They are probably the most Western society in that regard. That’s what funny about them. I just can’t take the Dutch seriously…

    🙂

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  219. @Beckow

    And I suppose Russian bookshops are full of books about British military victories and history, especially the Arctic Convoys, right?

    Something I’ve noticed about Russians after a few months reading the comments on this blog is that they demand respect but don’t give a lot of it out to others.

    • Agree: Kent Nationalist
    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @Beckow
  220. Ano4 says:
    @Europe Europa

    Arctic Convoys

    The history of Arctic Convoys is well known in Russia. When I was in school it was taught as part of the WWII history. Russians often express gratitude to the Allies for the help they received to this very day. A monument to the Arctic Convoys sailors stands in Arkhangelsk.

    https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attraction_Review-g298499-d8734806-Reviews-Monument_Participants_Northern_Convoys-Arkhangelsk_Arkhangelsk_Oblast_Northwester.html

    Is there a monument to the Soviet Red Army soldiers in UK?

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  221. @Commentator Mike

    Turkey has made so many enemies lately … if they would all gang up on it …

    Wannabe sultan is dumb, but not dumb enough to make enemies who are likely to gang up on him. He is also not dumb enough to cross real red lines. Say, I believe that he is moving his limited supply of bandits from Libya and Syria to Karabakh, but he does not make any military moves against Armenia proper. That would trigger military response from ODKB, i.e., from Russia (Russia in ODKB plays the same role as the US in NATO: the only military force capable of anything meaningful). Over a few centuries Turkey fought about a dozen wars with Russia and lost every one of them.

  222. @Exile

    of course some of these neo-con nutjobs are all for it.

    I suspect that even neocons aren’t dumb and blind enough to seriously consider such a move. I think their hot air is just an element of psychological warfare. When push comes to shove, the response would be exactly like American response to Russian offensive in Georgia in 2008, or to hitting the US base in Iraq by Iranian rockets: stink and nothing else.

  223. @Yevardian

    They outlawed TV in Russian in Armenia.

    I don’t like Pashinyan either, but this is blatantly false.

    Check this out:
    https://www.uawire.org/armenia-restricts-broadcasting-of-russian-tv-channels

    It’s not false, maybe a bit exaggerated. But this was the first move by Soros-linked scum, and the direction is unmistakable.

    I am not arguing that previous Armenian leadership consisted largely of thieves, like Yeltsin’s gang in 1990s in Russia. If I were running Russia (which will never happen), I’d be wary of thieves in post-Soviet space. But Pashinian represents Soros-linked scum. Nothing good in any country was ever linked to Soros. That applies to the US, as well (“vagina” demos, BLM, Antifa, and their ilk). The difference is the same as in Ukraine: Yanuk was a thief, while post-coup “leaders” are thieves and murderers. Every color revolution replaces bad with even worse.

  224. Dmitry says:
    @silviosilver

    I agree about Waterstones, especially considering who owns it. I would doubt Waterstones has some particularly Western-nationalist narrative agenda from the top, in the books it sells, considering its owner’s history.

    Waterstones is a chain of very civilized bookshops you find in most cities in England, especially London.

    Since 9 years ago, it was purchased by one of Putin’s allies. This is the same businessman who converted Lenta from liberal anti-government media, to a kind of kremlinbot media.

    Lenta was a many years ago, a website which was critical of the government. In 2014, this businessman bought the website, and maintain everything the same, except that editorial policy reversed to pro-government (and now they even add a few pseudonymous journalists, who described themselves as political technologists).

    This is a bit like the American style – when Washington Post, is bought by a businessman ally of the Democrat Party. However, in the Lenta example, the website was turned more into a kind of zombie of its former existence.

    • Replies: @Matra
    , @Kent Nationalist
  225. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    Both French and Turkish societies are not without their attachments towards hedonism and the unnatural too. What exactly went wrong 500 years ago that started the Dutch spiraling downhill?
    No offense to any Dutch readers, but once on a trip home from Ukraine my passenger plane made a stop at a Dutch airport, Amsterdam if my memory serves me correctly. Well after a month of seeing nothing but truly beautiful Ukrainian ladies at every turn, all of a sudden I was presented with a mélange of the homeliest looking people at the airport that I had seen in a long time. Something had clearly gone wrong in the genetics department there…Perhaps, I would have felt the same way within any Western European airport at that time? 🙂

    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @Kent Nationalist
  226. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    What exactly went wrong 500 years ago that started the Dutch spiraling downhill?

    The Dutch were the first to completely switch their society towards protestant capitalism. In the beginning (as usual) it seemed the right choice, it allowed the Netherlands a tremendous chance to get forward in its development compared to the rest of Europe. They did great. They absolutely fascinated Tzar Peter a couple of centuries later (modern Russian flag is a proof of this), and then dialectics being what they are the materialistic, rationalist and hedonist aspects started gaining the upper hand and the psychology and spirit of the people of Netherlands got effected in a negative manner.

    The process is still ongoing, but the end result is clear: if their mindset doesn’t change the Dutch will become extinct before the end of the XXIst century. Of course all the others who followed in their protestant, materialistic and hedonistic footsteps will also end-up with the similar results only later. A population blind to its certain demise has absolutely no right to lecture anyone. Those who don’t reproduce should shut up, they’re already dead people with a culture that will interest future archeologists of some foreign race living on their former territories.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack, Blinky Bill
  227. @Mr. Hack

    Well after a month of seeing nothing but truly beautiful Ukrainian ladies at every turn, all of a sudden I was presented with a mélange of the homeliest looking people at the airport that I had seen in a long time.

    Same experience when you visit Japan after China and Korea

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  228. Matra says:
    @Dmitry

    I first shopped at Waterstones in the late Cold War period. Political books were overwhelmingly anti-Reagan/Thatcher/Apartheid/Contras – right in line with the Soviet foreign policy of the time. The history department was usually better with more variety but still too much leftist agitprop by the likes of Howard Zinn.

    In general Western book stores, media, culture etc, in the 1980s were West-hating Soviet apologists of who made it as unfashionable as possible to be a Cold War hawk. Today though the same forces are almost hysterically anti-Russian.

  229. @Dmitry

    I cannot overstate how stupid the idea that British people do not have enough books about Munich is. It is one of the most debated topics in British 20th century historiography.

  230. Mr. Hack says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    Korean women can be quite attractive. One of my college sweethearts was Korean, and when she walked down the center promenade, all heads turned to catch a glimpse. 🙂

    • Agree: Kent Nationalist
  231. German_reader says:
    @Yevardian

    That’s a pretty bizarre statement, Britain was undoubtedly one of the major European powers since 1700, much of the 18th century was spent in wars against France, usually as part of coalitions with continental powers (think of Churchill’s ancestor the duke of Marlborough and the battle of Blenheim, or the alliance with Frederick’s Prussia during the Seven years war). And while before that England arguably wasn’t one of the first-rate powers, she had been intimately involved in European power politics since the 11th century at least (Angevin empire, Hundred years war – which also included intervention in Castilian affairs -, Henry VIII’s participation in the wars between the French and the Habsburgs, close ties to the Dutch and other Protestants on the continent in the 16th and 17th centuries etc.).
    There was also a lot of public sympathy for the Greek and Bulgarian uprisings in Britain, and in the end Britain played a leading role in liquidating the Ottoman empire, so Beckow’s claims are pretty one-sided.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  232. Let us go back on topic.
    What is so interesting on this war? Not who did what to whom 50, 500 or 1500 years ago, but what lies in the future.

    If you cared about war and military technology at all, you will know that Turkey, yes, Turkey is world leader in drone technology, with world’s greatest experience on battlefield.

    https://dronewars.net/2020/06/15/turkeys-unprecedented-ascent-to-drone-superpower-status/

    If you cared, you could see Turkish drones in action in Lybia and Syria, crushing second rate opponents.

    https://dronewars.net/2020/06/15/turkeys-unprecedented-ascent-to-drone-superpower-status/

    https://www.straturka.com/how-turkeys-drones-dominated-idlib-operation/

    Turkish forces decisively conducted serial drone strikes on the pro-Assad forces in Northern Syria and destroyed hundreds of combat vehicles, many air-defense systems, ammunition depots and other combat facilities. For the first time in the history, many drones acting simultaneously were used to destroy armored vehicle fleets and ground targets. Those combat drones inflicted such severe damage on Assad’s ground forces that one third of the Regime’s operational capabilities perished within very short time span.

    Now, we will see, for the first time, mass use of drones against prepared and capable enemy.

    This is how future of warfare looks like – swarms of silent stealthy autonomous machines circling in the sky and shredding metal and flesh on the ground with ease.
    The future belongs to Terminator, not Mad Max.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  233. German_reader says:

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  234. More news:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_missile_system

    Although none of the S-300 versions have fired a missile in a conflict, it is considered a very capable SAM system that poses a significant hazard even to the most advanced aircraft or other airborne targets.

    Not anymore. S-300 missile system used in combat for the first time. Yes, first time in 45 years.
    Will it live up to the hype? Stay tuned.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @reiner Tor
  235. @another anon

    During Vietnam war there was this joke in Russia.
    Vietnamese delegation in talks with Soviet military states: “We liked very much your surface-to-air missiles. But we’d like to purchase surface-to-airplane missiles, please”.

    Just a thought.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @reiner Tor
  236. @another anon

    Imo its just exploiting a undefended vector. Sufficient electronic warfare would counter it with relative ease, though it might not be available to these combatants.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  237. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    They shot down a good share of US planes, including the one piloted by the uber loon.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  238. Beckow says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    About Munich it is a matter of degree. I know that books mention it and that it’s tacitly acknowledged. Although a lot less than in the past. Given that Munich betrayal literally triggered WWII – and preceded by a full year Molotov-Ribentrop treaty – there is no question that Anglos would prefer to downplay it. I suspect in 20-30 years it might be quietly omitted even as a chapter.

    The Logic of WWII start was inexorable: Munich treaty between UK-France and Hitler led inevitably to both Molotov-Ribbentrop as a self-protection measure by the Soviets and to Germany’s attack on Poland and thus a full-blown war. But it’s not something Anglos like to be reminded of – so we get the gradual downplaying and a lot more stuff about “Red Army rapes”… If that is not ‘propaganda’ British style, I don’t know what would be…

  239. Beckow says:
    @Europe Europa

    …they demand respect but don’t give a lot of it out to others.

    There is a huge difference: the Anglo world has declared itself as the the objective arbiter of ‘the truth‘. Anglos customarily refer to all others’ self-glorification and myths as ‘propaganda‘. I don’t know about Russia’s bookshops, I have never been there. But you have to hold yourself to the standard that you preach. And in many cases – lately, almost everything – you don’t. Pointing out that the others are also doing it, or might be doing it, is not an argument. Russia or others neither claim to be mankind’s conscience, nor are seen as such.

    You own it – I mean the preachy Anglo world owns this. You need to live up to what you preach. If it’s understandable to you that you don’t – after all “we are all tribal” – then what exactly is your argument about others preferring their own tribal side? If you honestly think about your argument in today’s context it is quite incoherent.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  240. @Mikhail

    Rumor has it that they began shooting them down when Russians manned anti-aircraft guns. At least they were remarkably inept during numerous US air raids on Hanoi, and then all of a sudden they started shooting down lots of B-52s, which likely cost more than the whole of Hanoi. After that “exceptional” and “indispensable” heroes stopped bombing Hanoi.

    As to uber loon, we should treat him with admiration, as he is a historic person: so far he was the only person in history who managed to completely disable an American aircraft carrier. He was not punished for that: it helps to have an Admiral daddy.

  241. @Beckow

    Given that Munich betrayal literally triggered WWII

    I don’t think you know what that word means.

    Given that Munich betrayal literally triggered WWII

    Nor this one, for that matter.

  242. Seraphim says:
    @Beckow

    Respect should be both ways. Should you show respect to people who made a daily entertainment in vulgarly insulting and incessantly calumniating you and threatening to put you in ‘your place’? Why should they?

  243. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Ano4

    There’re some real PC type among the Dutch. **** ’em.

  244. @Beckow

    But there is no downplaying except in your mind. There are dozens of popular books written about it. We had to study it extensively in school.

    And fuck off putting ‘Red Army rapes’ in quotes, especially given that you made up you saw a book in Waterstones about them

    • Replies: @Beckow
  245. @German_reader

    This shows which side not to support.

  246. @another anon

    There are several versions of the S-300. In fact, the S-400 is also just one such version, albeit the most capable one. (It was originally designated the S-300 PMU3.) The S-400 dates from the 2000s, I think 2004 or 2007. The Armenians have an early 1980s system, whereas the Azeris have a late 1990s version, the PMU2. It must be noted that even the designation PMU2 doesn’t tell us about the exact specifications, since it can have a 200 or a 250 km range missile for the longest distance missiles of the system. (The Azeris likely have the former.)

  247. @AnonFromTN

    The main purpose of such missiles is not to shoot down the enemy airplanes, rather to make them miss their targets, for example by forcing the enemy air force to fly too high, or concentrate on evasive maneuvers instead of hitting its targets, etc. The Serbs only managed to hit only a few NATO planes in 1999, but they managed to force NATO to stay above 20,000 feet, which made it difficult to hit military targets. This is one major reason why eventually they abandoned the idea of a ground invasion of Kosovo and they also had to switch to attacking civilian (more charitably dual purpose) targets like bridges or the Chinese embassy.

  248. @Beckow

    As a Magyar you might be torn by mixed messaging

    I don’t care for messaging, whether mixed or not. The French (and to a lesser extent the British) drew our present borders in Trianon, and as you might imagine, there’s very little love lost between Hungarians and the French, at least with nationalist types. Even the Anglos are viewed with suspicion and often outright hatred, this usually extends to Americans, for a number of reasons.

    One thing that is sure, I am not inclined to be defending the West due to my identity as a Magyar.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  249. @Ano4

    Mr. Hack is a Ukrainian nationalist who promotes multikulti for Russia. One of the least surprising things in the world.

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @Ano4
  250. Ano4 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Mr Hack is thoroughly Americanized. He self-identifies as an Ukrainian nationalist, but he would not endorse real Ukrainian nationalists such as Pravyi Sektor, C14 and the Azov Battalion. That’s probably a bridge too far for him.

    But that is what real Ukrainian nationalism looks like. These guys and the Ultras who have burned Anti-Maidan people alive and beaten up the wounded to death are the real modern day Haidamaky ready to shed rivers of blood for the cause.

    If I was a hardcore Ukrainian nationalist, someone like Parubyi, I would have to endorse them without the slightest remorse. I mean, it comes with the job, just like killing Jewish children at Babyi Yar and Polish civilians in Volhynia. If you are an Ukrainian nationalist then it is your Karma to do this type of things. It just can’t be avoided.

    Mr Hack is too American to be real deal, he is too Westernized.

    Anyway: Дякую тобi Боже що я не хохол…

    😁

  251. Beckow says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    Your militant defensiveness is out of place, I would be quite happy if your interpretation is closer to reality. I don’t think it is, but let’s give it some time.

    f..k off putting ‘Red Army rapes’ in quotes

    I don’t understand you. When you invade a country to murder and rape 20 million people, as Germans did in Russia, you can’t complain about possible revenge. Be glad that they didn’t kill them all, the commie muddled thinking is responsible for that. My quotes were appropriate – a sign of self-centerdness of the historians who push this. Regarding the books there is Beevor’s Downfall or Crimes Unspoken, and plenty more.

  252. Beckow says:
    @reiner Tor

    That is good to know.

    French (and to a lesser extent the British) drew our present borders in Trianon

    That is technically correct, but the Trianon borders were largely based on ethnicity. The part where Magyars got a raw deal had to do with their own pre-WWI insatiable policies and then losing WWI. It is always better to keep one’s appetites under control, a lesson for many countries that customarily overreach.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  253. @Armanen

    Cry me a river hach, hopefully you’ll be able to do it before some Azeri lops your head off.

  254. @Beckow

    Czechoslovakia certainly had an insatiable appetite, getting into a military conflict with each of its neighbors, and proposing to annex the western border region of Hungary. The borders were of course decided by the French, not by the small countries in Central Europe.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  255. Beckow says:
    @reiner Tor

    …Czechoslovakia certainly had an insatiable appetite

    Only after the previous decades-long Magyar insatiable appetite. Sequence in history matters, Trianon was a consequence of the Magyar policies in 1890-1914. As long as Magyars are unwilling to understand that, we will have a problem.

    Western Hungary went to Austria, I find that strange, but it seems to work now. French were heavily influenced by skilful Czechs and by the badly timed Bela Kun misadventure in communism (what the hell was that all about?)

    Trianon decision was preordained by the situation on the ground, by ethnic boundaries, and by the then very well known reality of what Magyars did while in charge of all of Hungary: as a minority they attempted – in the early 20th century no less – to forcefully ‘magyarize‘ millions of people. Of course it didn’t work and Trianon did what it had to do.

    (We will fail in stopping the Senegalese and Pakistanis if this remains an issue.)

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  256. @Beckow

    Let’s stick to my original point. The French drew the borders, not the Czechoslovaks, and they are thoroughly hated for that. Certainly, if I am defending some French action in 1938, it’s not because of my Magyar identity.

  257. @Dmitry

    Yes, Turkey has economically developed. But I believe it will have a lower GDP per capita (inflation adjusted) in 2030 than in 2000. So the main point of my response is to say Turkey is not at all ascendant as claimed by the other commentator. I can think of no other large country that in the 2010s made so many self-inflicted geopolitical errors against its interests. And it has not yet even paid the full price. There are so many external problems Turkey is pursuing that could blow up and I believe several of them will come crashing down at once.

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