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Russia to Welcome 15,000 African Refugees
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boer-immigration

15,000 African refugees could be resettled in Stavropol,” read the Komsomolskaya Pravda headline, as displayed on Kholmogorov’s latest post to appear on my Facebook feed.

So this is the terminal stage of Putinism, I thought. Infinity Refugees. It is as if the kremlins looked at what is happening in the US and Western Europe and said, “We want some of that too!”

most-important-graph-2017

Sailer’s most important graph in the world.

However, on opening the link, the initial feelings of zrada gave way to peremoga.

“At the start of July, the Boer delegation headed by Dr. Jan Andrian Slebus is scheduled to visit,” Komsomolskaya Pravda in the North Caucasus was told by the press service of the Ombudsman’s Office in the Stavropol Territory. “Guests from South Africa want to talk with the Cossacks, with the local population, Stavropol politicians and religious figures.”

If the regional authorities approve of it, more than 15,000 Boer farmers may be from South Africa for farming, whose living conditions have become unacceptable in their homeland. It is also planned that in the case of the success of the first batch of settlers, other Boers may settle in the Crimea, the Krasnodar Territory and the North Caucasus republics.

Here is a report from Vesti News, which appears to be a state-owned project to translate videos from Russian news channels:

Incidentally, the headlines on their videos are based AF: “White Genocide,” “Never-Ending Refugee Flows“, “Muslim Fatigue“, “EU’s Plan to Blacken Continent.” All strictly for foreign consumption, but still, feels good, man.

Anyhow, this is excellent news, since it clearly means that Putler & Co. are reading my blog:

* South Africa legalizes expropriation of land from white farmers without compensation. Looks like we’re approaching the Mugabe scenario there.

Advice for Visegrad, Russia: Easen immigration for South African whites. You’ll be:

1. Doing a good, humanitarian/Christian thing;
2. Trigger the SJWs;
3. Be better able to deflect German/Brussels lectures about refugees;
4. Reinforce your own demographics;

What’s more, Russia won’t even have to pay for the Boers, since they’re bringing their own money. These people are unlikely to burn cars or sit on welfare. They do belong to a weird little Protestant sect but we all have our minor failings.

Being a White South African farmer is the single most dangerous profession in the world these days. The murder rate is around 300/100,000 per year (~150 killed out of a population of ~50,000). This makes it about 4x as dangerous as living in the world’s most murderous country (El Salvador) and 3x as dangerous as living in the world’s most murderous major city (Caracas). Many of the murders are horrific and drawn out, involving the use of torture. In the veldt at nighttime, nobody hears your screams.

There is an excellent humanitarian case to take in Boer refugees. A Responsibility To Protect, so to speak.

Heil Putler!

 
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  1. Excellent.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
    @reiner Tor

    Excellent indeed.

    I was always troubled by the failure of Western nations to make it a priority to bring in the white farmers from South Africa.

    Instead they welcomed migrants who had little chance of doing anything but causing trouble and costing money.

    Good for Putin and Russia!

    And it will be nice to see the usual suspects complaining about a humanitarian gesture directed towards white people.

  2. Wait until they find out about the ‘propiska’ process, they might not come :)…

    If it works, it would be good for everyone. EU might get better handle on communicating with Russia with a small population of sober, hard working, Dutch speaking farmers there.

    I suspect Western media would ignore it completely until some disillusioned Boers (propiska?) decide to leave, and then they would pounce.

    • Replies: @Latsa
    @Beckow

    Propiska is not a problem if you have the money to buy and if you live in the place where you have the propiska, which will be their case obviously?

  3. Actually, I’m not sure this is such a good idea. Russia is not the most comfortable place to live in – these people will grow disillusioned quickly. Their kids will move to the city and become leaders in Russian LGBTQ movement (because Dutch DNA).

    I know that Russia can’t be worse, than South Africa, but at least back there they had a traditional lifestyle to cling to. In Russia it won’t be the same.

    lol, I wrote my comment before I saw yours. But Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter – there WILL be disillusioned Boers.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Felix Keverich


    Their kids will move to the city and become leaders in Russian LGBTQ movement (because Dutch DNA).
     
    For the ROC this would probably be a better outcome than the Boers forming the nucleus of a Calvinist Taliban trying to convert the residents of Crimea.
    , @Beckow
    @Felix Keverich


    Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter – there WILL be disillusioned Boers
     
    First, everything is a laughing matter, why not? There are a few dozen Dutch farmers in south-central Slovakia, the land is cheap there, and it has worked out great. They drive home out of season and bring fresh Gouda to our markets. They politely say how they like the 'old European feeling', but never actually admit that they are escaping the Dutch demographic meltdown. Couldn't be 'racist', right.

    Second, Western media will find an angle to demonise this no matter what. Boers stay in South Africa, 'scared after they saw what Russia is really like'. They come, things will be rocky as they always are with migrations, the possibilities for evil-Russia stories are endless: Putin 'stole their bibles', locals are morose, and the damn 'propiska'.

    Third, nothing lights up a party like a few disillusioned Dutch lesbians. I say, bring them in.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    , @The Big Red Scary
    @Felix Keverich


    Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter
     
    It's far from perfect but improving each year. Propiska is not a priori a problem, but needs to be reformed. The big problem is that there is no way to force a landlord to register you. Germans have a good solution to this: you go to the Buergeramt with your rental contract and they register you on the spot. The Russian government should adopt such a system, since it will enable them to see who is failing to pay taxes on rental income.

    In the meantime, there is a workaround for people on visas: anyone can register you at the local post office for the duration of your visa. This takes fifteeen minutes if you have all of the documents in order.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich

    , @pyrrhus
    @Felix Keverich

    Disillusioned?? After moving to a country where they don't face murder every day from the black population, and where the schools and universities are far better than S. Africa's?

    , @Swan Knight
    @Felix Keverich

    You're an ignoramus. I lived in South Africa for ten-years. Boer farmers are hard working agricultural experts. Russia's climate is obviously much colder. Nevertheless, Russia has better farmland. The Boer farmer succeeded in farming an arid, blistering hot summers dessert. They will not come to Russia and abandon their new farms in a host nation for faggotry just because the weather is too cold

    , @Anonymous
    @Felix Keverich

    At least they get to keep their lives. Sounds like a good trade off.

  4. I’ve said for a while that Russia needs to create intentionally trilingual communities(European or High Value language, Russian, English). The Russian language is just way too big a barrier for immigration and so these communities could be a way of passing that task off to future children. These communities could partly specialize in tourism(say, for guides), medical tourism, retirement communities, translation, culture industries, public relations, etc. There’s a lot of soft power projection that could come from doing this.

  5. Katherine had her Volga Germans, and now Putler will have his African Dutch farmers (also a Germanic group). Probably, plenty of hard working Ukrainians tilling the Russia soil too. I wonder what Russian land laws are like? Is farmland available for sale to foreigners? Will these new immigrants be granted instant citizenship?

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Mr. Hack

    plenty of hard working Ukrainians tilling the Russia soil too.


    Looks like Ukrainians will be replaced by Boers. That's what you get for being so recalcitrant and unreliable.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  6. Being a White South African farmer is the single most dangerous profession in the world these days. The murder rate is around 300/100,000 per year (~150 killed out of a population of ~50,000).

    This a gross exaggeration. The figure of 50,000 of white farmers probably refers to only the landowner. It would not include all members of the household of the landowner or white workers on the farm. According to the white farmer’s union between 1990 and 2012, there were on average 70 homicides occurring on a farm in South Africa. The victim could be of any race. By interpolation of farm crime data, probably only 40+ victims per year are white out of a rural white population that is much larger than 50,000. Those in white farm households are safer than the average person in El Salvador.

    Boers are addicted to a low cost workforce. They will not find it in Russia. From a commercial standpoint Boers are not tempted to move. Also they form patriarchal communities leading to family murder-suicides.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Oprah Fan


    From a commercial standpoint Boers are not tempted to move
     
    I know Boers IRL. They're pretty eager to move.

    Most would probably prefer Western Europe to Russia, admittedly. But Western Europe doesn't seem to really want them.

    Replies: @Oprah Fan, @Anonymous

    , @Marcus
    @Oprah Fan

    ZA is a really, rally dangerous place in general, and statistically whites are much less likely to be victimized than blacks. "White Genocide" dorks like hysterical (as usual)

    Replies: @Zhukov1945

    , @unpc downunder
    @Oprah Fan

    I'm guessing the worst off whites are the working and lower middle class white South Africans who can't afford to pay for private security or live in affluent gated communities. Not much we can do for these people other than make sure we don't suffer the same fate by bringing in lots of low IQ immigrants from the third world.

    , @Anonymous
    @Oprah Fan

    You have your head so far up your arse that you can lick your own tongue.

    , @Rogue
    @Oprah Fan

    Sheer nonsense.

    The gist of this article is correct about the sheer depravity of farm murders in South Africa, and it's a constant ongoing reality in the country.

    South African farmers have moved to several other African countries in recent years to escape the violence, and have been welcomed with open arms to continue farming.

    Some SA farmers have apparently already moved to Georgia some years ago - not to take up other trades but specifically to farm.

    Replies: @Oprah Fan

  7. Is Russia really that bothered about getting a rugby team?

    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
    @Jay Ritchie

    The benefits would be many and varied.

    Myself, I wish they'd all come here to Australia. IF ONLY TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF OUR BLOODY RUGBY.

  8. @Oprah Fan

    Being a White South African farmer is the single most dangerous profession in the world these days. The murder rate is around 300/100,000 per year (~150 killed out of a population of ~50,000).
     
    This a gross exaggeration. The figure of 50,000 of white farmers probably refers to only the landowner. It would not include all members of the household of the landowner or white workers on the farm. According to the white farmer's union between 1990 and 2012, there were on average 70 homicides occurring on a farm in South Africa. The victim could be of any race. By interpolation of farm crime data, probably only 40+ victims per year are white out of a rural white population that is much larger than 50,000. Those in white farm households are safer than the average person in El Salvador.

    Boers are addicted to a low cost workforce. They will not find it in Russia. From a commercial standpoint Boers are not tempted to move. Also they form patriarchal communities leading to family murder-suicides.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Marcus, @unpc downunder, @Anonymous, @Rogue

    From a commercial standpoint Boers are not tempted to move

    I know Boers IRL. They’re pretty eager to move.

    Most would probably prefer Western Europe to Russia, admittedly. But Western Europe doesn’t seem to really want them.

    • Replies: @Oprah Fan
    @Daniel Chieh

    Boers stay where they are because they don't have to compete very hard. Going to a place where there is tougher competition is not appealing. This is not a casual admission people tend to make.

    Replies: @KenH, @Uncle

    , @Anonymous
    @Daniel Chieh


    But Western Europe doesn’t seem to really want them.
     
    Disgusting, but true. Boers should get automatic citizenship in The Netherlands, while the Anglophones should get automatic citizenship in the UK or Australia.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @jilles dykstra

  9. This is very positive news. If Russian boomers who have probably grown up hearing only commie narratives about evil landowners are able to drop their conditioning there’s still a lot of reason to hope.

    Point 3 will not work, to the contrary, hardly anything gets you branded as a Nazi faster than suggesting that white South Africans have a genuine case for refugee status. The post-Apartheid rainbow tolerance nation is the crowning achievement of the Anglo-Jewish cultural revolution and admitting its failure would be as damning for their ideological leadership as the collapse of the USSR was for Marxist economists.

    “Refugee” basically just means “dark-skinned person from the Middle East or Africa” and whether or not that person is actually fleeing anything is now totally irrelevant. Russia has been taking in lots of refugees in recent years, from Ukraine, and of course it gets no praise for it from the EU because white people don’t actually count as refugees. Only taking in black or brown people is recognized as a praiseworthy sacrifice.

    • Agree: utu, reiner Tor, Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Wrong button.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    , @jack daniels
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Not to be obtuse but why let the other side dictate one's use of language? Why not intentionally use their terms in ways that reflect reality? We're probably stuck with the left's lingo so let's at least corrupt it.

  10. @Oprah Fan

    Being a White South African farmer is the single most dangerous profession in the world these days. The murder rate is around 300/100,000 per year (~150 killed out of a population of ~50,000).
     
    This a gross exaggeration. The figure of 50,000 of white farmers probably refers to only the landowner. It would not include all members of the household of the landowner or white workers on the farm. According to the white farmer's union between 1990 and 2012, there were on average 70 homicides occurring on a farm in South Africa. The victim could be of any race. By interpolation of farm crime data, probably only 40+ victims per year are white out of a rural white population that is much larger than 50,000. Those in white farm households are safer than the average person in El Salvador.

    Boers are addicted to a low cost workforce. They will not find it in Russia. From a commercial standpoint Boers are not tempted to move. Also they form patriarchal communities leading to family murder-suicides.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Marcus, @unpc downunder, @Anonymous, @Rogue

    ZA is a really, rally dangerous place in general, and statistically whites are much less likely to be victimized than blacks. “White Genocide” dorks like hysterical (as usual)

    • Replies: @Zhukov1945
    @Marcus

    Derp just bc blacks kill a lot of blacks then the fact they kill less whites means concerned whites are dorks...gtfo.

    Replies: @Marcus

  11. @Daniel Chieh
    @Oprah Fan


    From a commercial standpoint Boers are not tempted to move
     
    I know Boers IRL. They're pretty eager to move.

    Most would probably prefer Western Europe to Russia, admittedly. But Western Europe doesn't seem to really want them.

    Replies: @Oprah Fan, @Anonymous

    Boers stay where they are because they don’t have to compete very hard. Going to a place where there is tougher competition is not appealing. This is not a casual admission people tend to make.

    • Replies: @KenH
    @Oprah Fan


    Boers stay where they are because they don’t have to compete very hard.
     
    That's false. Boers are very attached to the land and nation that they built. I've seen interviews with Boers who've had a chance to emigrate to Europe and elsewhere but can't bring themselves to leave. . They're some of the world's best farmers and would succeed as farmers wherever they settled (if they ever choose to leave).
    , @Uncle
    @Oprah Fan

    And you have never worked a day in your life.

  12. I confess to some ambivalence here. I agree that this is a smart move politically for Russia. Wasn’t there some talk of Georgia taking in the Boers a few years ago?

    On the other hand, the Boers invited their extinction and could serve as an object lesson to the rest of the white population in the world. Live among Africans and you’ll be subsumed by their unrestrained fecundity and feral violence. We Americans at least had the sense to clear our part of North America from the native cannibalistic savages and put the remainder on reservations. Idiot Boers apparently thought the African’s nature made him a more amenable neighbor. Then again, so did Americans who found the aboriginals impossible to enslave while the African imports were happy so long as they had “tight pussy, loose shoes, and a warm place to shit.” Now there are 40,000,000+ Africans in America and every major city lies in ruin.

    At any rate, losing a few hundred thousand whites in South Africa is a small price to pay if it wakes up the rest of Europe and America that one ignores the fecundity of African savages at one’s existential peril. And rescuing them is a bit of a moral hazard isn’t it?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @Stan d Mute


    We Americans at least had the sense to clear our part of North America from the native cannibalistic savages and put the remainder on reservations.
     
    Some modern Americans seems to forget that the Native Americans were hit by apocalyptic plagues which weakened them and depopulated the Americas.
    Otherwise, North America would still have a large population of Native Americans.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute

    , @Hyperborean
    @Stan d Mute

    But the Boers are not really serving as a lesson now. How many people in the Anglosphere or Western Europe know or care about it?

    But if they flee to other countries then they will find it easier to propagate what happened to them in South Africa in the countries they live in.


    Idiot Boers apparently thought the African’s nature made him a more amenable neighbor.
     
    To be fair, the Bantustans were kind of aimed at separating the Africans, although they were not that effective.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute

    , @artichoke
    @Stan d Mute

    Some have been killed already. Russia is saving some others from killing and being silenced within a hostile regime, so the story can be told, so we won't forget the lesson. They and their descendants (who will exist thanks to Russia) never will.

    , @Ben Sampson
    @Stan d Mute

    for a minute stan d mute, was funny...at the start. then scope of his lunacy became apparent and it shocked me, shattered my illusion that I could make fun with the post. Pheeew! oh mi god!

    the again Stan might be a troll looking for attention while he gets paid by his handlers. which thought suggested I ignore and move on. and I have. a lil' tardy on my part..it too me too long..about 5 minutes too long

  13. German_reader says:

    So this Vesti news service is owned by the Russian state…and uses terms like “white genocide”???
    What’s the background behind that…just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?
    I don’t watch Russia today, but I always got the impression it was fairly pc on matters of immigration, race, multiculturalism etc. (e.g. very much in favour of the Black Lives matter movement in the US)…is Russia now trying to diversify its media aimed at foreign audiences, to appeal to foreign nationalists?
    What a weird world we’re living in.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @German_reader


    What a weird world we’re living in.
     
    Yeah, it's weird. And it's only getting weirder. I now genuinely don't know if everyday life is any freer in Western Europe today than it was in communist Hungary around, say, 1985. Even ten years ago I would've thought there was no question about that, but now I'm getting unsure.

    Replies: @Mitleser

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    Vesti appears to be a VGTRK project, whose deputy director is Dmitry Kiselev.

    He's preddy based:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwLvPR2KedI

    He was also the guy who said that Russia can turn the US into nuclear ash. Very high energy fellow.

    He's also in charge of Sputnik, which is more "conspiratorial" and tbh lower quality than RT.

    RT is a separate media arm (though one that belongs to the same holding company as Sputnik), has more yuppie Anglophone types, and is more directly aimed at the foreign left/liberal audience. They were angry at Russia Insider after Charles Bausman's article on the Jews (which was reprinted on this website), but I have heard on the grapevine that it was the people around Kiselev who calmed things down.

    Also RT actually blacklists people for racism and anti-Semitism, and I'm not talking hardcore Daily Stormer types (catch the hint?). Sputnik doesn't do that AFAIK.

    Anyway, my point is... it's probably inaccurate to talk of a unitary "Kremlin" media strategy.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Yevardian

    , @Dante
    @German_reader

    Cross Talk held an excellent show called " Melting pot melting " which was about the fake refugee crises Anti White msm and even discussed population replacement and Kalergi. It also discussed and was pleased to see the European fightback against all this, It ought be on YouTube still

    , @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    What’s the background behind that…just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?

     

    So far, it's just some publicity (hype) in the media.

    In the longrun, it would a great idea from (in this case local) authorities, to try to attract this immigrant. Any investment in this area (e.g. introduction of economic incentives), would likely be recovered soon from the improvement in human capital that it would create in the area.

    South Africa is one of the few countries in the world, which has this kind of demographic, while at the same time being lower in GDP per capita than Russia, which makes immigration to Russia a rational possibility.

    It is probably though not likely there will be more than a few without benefits, which is why I earlier imagined Karlin was not reporting this story.

    Currently UK, Australia and Canada have heavily benefited from Boer emigration, even in the hundreds of thousands arriving (which is a highly educated and skilled demographic even relative to those countries - they developed nuclear weapons even).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Felix Keverich

    , @songbird
    @German_reader

    This is not strategy but tactics, IMO. Think of it as the vanity of politicians being stroked. Make X country look bad. Make our country look good. In this case X is the EU.

    They would be smart to actually have a strategy: be oppositional to the BBC and other state news outlets. It would grow their audience. Difficult task though, since state news is organically leftwing.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    , @Chuck
    @German_reader

    OY VEY!

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    BTW, German_reader (and Dmitry).

    I met a pretty influential Russia journalist yesterday. He unambiguously confirmed to me that Vesti News is a Rossiya Segodnya project.

    Independently confirmed here (the people this blog attracts!): https://www.unz.com/akarlin/refugees-welcome/#comment-2412638

    Apart from various fascinating tidbits about Russia's elites that will have to remain under wraps, he also confirmed my casual impression that Simonyan is a liberal, while Kiselev is /ourguy/.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @German_reader

  14. @Jaakko Raipala
    This is very positive news. If Russian boomers who have probably grown up hearing only commie narratives about evil landowners are able to drop their conditioning there's still a lot of reason to hope.

    Point 3 will not work, to the contrary, hardly anything gets you branded as a Nazi faster than suggesting that white South Africans have a genuine case for refugee status. The post-Apartheid rainbow tolerance nation is the crowning achievement of the Anglo-Jewish cultural revolution and admitting its failure would be as damning for their ideological leadership as the collapse of the USSR was for Marxist economists.

    "Refugee" basically just means "dark-skinned person from the Middle East or Africa" and whether or not that person is actually fleeing anything is now totally irrelevant. Russia has been taking in lots of refugees in recent years, from Ukraine, and of course it gets no praise for it from the EU because white people don't actually count as refugees. Only taking in black or brown people is recognized as a praiseworthy sacrifice.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @jack daniels

    Wrong button.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @reiner Tor

    Fixed.

  15. @German_reader
    So this Vesti news service is owned by the Russian state...and uses terms like "white genocide"???
    What's the background behind that...just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?
    I don't watch Russia today, but I always got the impression it was fairly pc on matters of immigration, race, multiculturalism etc. (e.g. very much in favour of the Black Lives matter movement in the US)...is Russia now trying to diversify its media aimed at foreign audiences, to appeal to foreign nationalists?
    What a weird world we're living in.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anatoly Karlin, @Dante, @Dmitry, @songbird, @Chuck, @Anatoly Karlin

    What a weird world we’re living in.

    Yeah, it’s weird. And it’s only getting weirder. I now genuinely don’t know if everyday life is any freer in Western Europe today than it was in communist Hungary around, say, 1985. Even ten years ago I would’ve thought there was no question about that, but now I’m getting unsure.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @reiner Tor

    That is what you get for living in the emerging European neo-USSR.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  16. I understand that Australia are doing the same, looking to encourage Boers to settle there. Australia and Russia will certainly be safer than S Africa

  17. @Stan d Mute
    I confess to some ambivalence here. I agree that this is a smart move politically for Russia. Wasn’t there some talk of Georgia taking in the Boers a few years ago?

    On the other hand, the Boers invited their extinction and could serve as an object lesson to the rest of the white population in the world. Live among Africans and you’ll be subsumed by their unrestrained fecundity and feral violence. We Americans at least had the sense to clear our part of North America from the native cannibalistic savages and put the remainder on reservations. Idiot Boers apparently thought the African’s nature made him a more amenable neighbor. Then again, so did Americans who found the aboriginals impossible to enslave while the African imports were happy so long as they had “tight pussy, loose shoes, and a warm place to shit.” Now there are 40,000,000+ Africans in America and every major city lies in ruin.

    At any rate, losing a few hundred thousand whites in South Africa is a small price to pay if it wakes up the rest of Europe and America that one ignores the fecundity of African savages at one’s existential peril. And rescuing them is a bit of a moral hazard isn’t it?

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Hyperborean, @artichoke, @Ben Sampson

    We Americans at least had the sense to clear our part of North America from the native cannibalistic savages and put the remainder on reservations.

    Some modern Americans seems to forget that the Native Americans were hit by apocalyptic plagues which weakened them and depopulated the Americas.
    Otherwise, North America would still have a large population of Native Americans.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    @Mitleser


    Otherwise, North America would still have a large population of Native Americans.
     
    Maybe, but they’d be on reservations anyway if they hadn’t succumbed to disease and weren’t slaughtered in war. Our Founders weren’t squeamish about calling a savage a “savage” and had firsthand experience with them. From our Declaration of Independence and cut/pasted from Takimag’s Jim Goad article on the subject:

    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
     
    http://takimag.com/article/those_poor_helpless_indian_savages_jim_goad

    Replies: @anonymous coward

  18. Afrikanas speaking in Russian. Can’t wait to hear the accent.

  19. @reiner Tor
    @German_reader


    What a weird world we’re living in.
     
    Yeah, it's weird. And it's only getting weirder. I now genuinely don't know if everyday life is any freer in Western Europe today than it was in communist Hungary around, say, 1985. Even ten years ago I would've thought there was no question about that, but now I'm getting unsure.

    Replies: @Mitleser

    That is what you get for living in the emerging European neo-USSR.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Mitleser

    this is the best timeline

  20. @German_reader
    So this Vesti news service is owned by the Russian state...and uses terms like "white genocide"???
    What's the background behind that...just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?
    I don't watch Russia today, but I always got the impression it was fairly pc on matters of immigration, race, multiculturalism etc. (e.g. very much in favour of the Black Lives matter movement in the US)...is Russia now trying to diversify its media aimed at foreign audiences, to appeal to foreign nationalists?
    What a weird world we're living in.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anatoly Karlin, @Dante, @Dmitry, @songbird, @Chuck, @Anatoly Karlin

    Vesti appears to be a VGTRK project, whose deputy director is Dmitry Kiselev.

    He’s preddy based:

    He was also the guy who said that Russia can turn the US into nuclear ash. Very high energy fellow.

    He’s also in charge of Sputnik, which is more “conspiratorial” and tbh lower quality than RT.

    RT is a separate media arm (though one that belongs to the same holding company as Sputnik), has more yuppie Anglophone types, and is more directly aimed at the foreign left/liberal audience. They were angry at Russia Insider after Charles Bausman’s article on the Jews (which was reprinted on this website), but I have heard on the grapevine that it was the people around Kiselev who calmed things down.

    Also RT actually blacklists people for racism and anti-Semitism, and I’m not talking hardcore Daily Stormer types (catch the hint?). Sputnik doesn’t do that AFAIK.

    Anyway, my point is… it’s probably inaccurate to talk of a unitary “Kremlin” media strategy.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Also this: Sputnik "Fake News" Corrects German Fake Documentary
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/sputnik-corrects-german-fake-documentary/

    Would RT publish something like this article?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @Yevardian
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Perhaps its just me, but the woman in the thumbnail has a strong resemblance to you.

  21. UK, Australia and Canada, successfully receive hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants, with the majority each year flowing to UK and Canada.

    Mostly these are skilled immigrants. South Africa itself has many important scientists and intellectuals (with famous universities before the 1990s), and emigrated to UK, Australia, Canada and the US, during the 1990s, when crime and social disorder rose in their native country, but continuing emigration occurring in recent years.

    This immigration can be of obvious economic benefit for the receiving countries, due to the demographics of the immigrants.

    For Stavropol, which has high poverty, to attract them (beyond these ones visiting for a holiday), will
    probably require absorption benefits and some kind of real plan from the authorities.

    GDP per capita in South Africa is significantly below Russia, although a little recovered since the 1990s – so there is still a possibility to receive such “Boer immigration”, but there would need to be real incentives and with multi-year plan .

    Particularly some kind of bonus to incentivize them to live in Russia, and not leave after a year (something like a free apartment if they are successfully staying in the country 5 years later).

    • Replies: @DFH
    @Dmitry


    UK, Australia and Canada, successfully receive hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants, with the majority each year flowing to UK and Canada.
     
    About half of my primary school teachers were South African, both Boer and Anglo

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    , @Anarcho-Supremacist
    @Dmitry

    One reason they leave is because South African "Affirmative Action" laws make it all but impossible for them to work. The AA laws are basically racial quotas and I shit you not sometime they have to get immigrants to fill the slots because using whites would violate the law.

    , @Anarcho-Supremacist
    @Dmitry


    GDP per capita in South Africa is significantly below Russia, although a little recovered since the 1990s – so there is still a possibility to receive such “Boer immigration”, but there would need to be real incentives and with multi-year plan .

    Particularly some kind of bonus to incentivize them to live in Russia, and not leave after a year (something like a free apartment if they are successfully staying in the country 5 years later).
     

    That is the thing. That is GDP for the entire population. White SA have a GDP per cap of 35,000 and that is not even adjusting for PPP or cost of living. Another thing is despite the fact that SA has a shit hole crime rate that is not everywhere and most whites outside of the farmers and some rural areas live in communities with crime rates lower then Russia's. It would be a hard sell for most of them but for the farmers it makes good sense. The SA white farms are some of the best in the world and Russia is a country with a neglected agriculture industry. Now if the Kremlin bureaucrats had some come sense then they may pay the Southern African Farmers(Not just SA but also Zimbabwe[formerly Southern Rhodesia then just Rhodesia] and Namibia[formerly South West Africa] and some others) to settle on Russian farm land.

    Here is an example of Southern African farmers doing well after being kicked out.

    https://youtu.be/5_Ym0M31MpE

    , @Rattus Norwegius
    @Dmitry

    @Dmitry
    "UK, Australia and Canada, successfully receive hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants, with the majority each year flowing to UK and Canada."
    What proportion of those migrants is Afrikaans speaking and what proportion is English speaking?
    "GDP per capita in South Africa is significantly below Russia"
    Some ethnicities in South Africa have a higher GDP per capita than Russia does.
    https://businesstech.co.za/news/wealth/153485/whites-earn-5-times-more-than-blacks-in-south-africa-stats-sa/
    "Particularly some kind of bonus to incentivize them to live in Russia, and not leave after a year (something like a free apartment if they are successfully staying in the country 5 years later)."
    These people are not refugees if you have to bribe them.

    , @Jeff Stryker
    @Dmitry

    White South Africans and the Detroit Analogy

    British South Africans, like the internal migrant white Southerners who moved up to Detroit to work in the automobile factories, were always British first just as the Southerners in Detroit were Virginians or Kentuckians first. When the shit hit the fan in South Africa as it did in Detroit, the British South Africans had contingency plans same as the hillbillies.

    But the Boers relationship with Holland was distant and they are not Dutch citizens. They had nowhere, absolutely nowhere, to go.

    This is similar to the children of Polish immigrants who themselves had worked all their lives in Detroit. Their house was worth zero. Probably you could not give a house away in Detroit. Their savings minimal.

    The Boers who drove buses and were the backbone of South Africa unlike the British South Africans were stuck-they could not move to London or Perth.

    This is analogous to Detroit.

    Its also analogous to the Old Colonial American stock of the heartland. The bubble city whites and tech millionaires in California will move to New Zealand or Paris or Israel if the blacks and Hispanics reach a certain population level and the US becomes untenable. The Italians and Irish of NYC will move to their ancestral countries, where they keep ties.

    But the Americans of South Carolina or Alabama or Northern Arizona have nowhere to go. They cannot even move to Canada. They are stuck/

  22. @German_reader
    So this Vesti news service is owned by the Russian state...and uses terms like "white genocide"???
    What's the background behind that...just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?
    I don't watch Russia today, but I always got the impression it was fairly pc on matters of immigration, race, multiculturalism etc. (e.g. very much in favour of the Black Lives matter movement in the US)...is Russia now trying to diversify its media aimed at foreign audiences, to appeal to foreign nationalists?
    What a weird world we're living in.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anatoly Karlin, @Dante, @Dmitry, @songbird, @Chuck, @Anatoly Karlin

    Cross Talk held an excellent show called ” Melting pot melting ” which was about the fake refugee crises Anti White msm and even discussed population replacement and Kalergi. It also discussed and was pleased to see the European fightback against all this, It ought be on YouTube still

  23. @German_reader
    So this Vesti news service is owned by the Russian state...and uses terms like "white genocide"???
    What's the background behind that...just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?
    I don't watch Russia today, but I always got the impression it was fairly pc on matters of immigration, race, multiculturalism etc. (e.g. very much in favour of the Black Lives matter movement in the US)...is Russia now trying to diversify its media aimed at foreign audiences, to appeal to foreign nationalists?
    What a weird world we're living in.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anatoly Karlin, @Dante, @Dmitry, @songbird, @Chuck, @Anatoly Karlin

    What’s the background behind that…just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?

    So far, it’s just some publicity (hype) in the media.

    In the longrun, it would a great idea from (in this case local) authorities, to try to attract this immigrant. Any investment in this area (e.g. introduction of economic incentives), would likely be recovered soon from the improvement in human capital that it would create in the area.

    South Africa is one of the few countries in the world, which has this kind of demographic, while at the same time being lower in GDP per capita than Russia, which makes immigration to Russia a rational possibility.

    It is probably though not likely there will be more than a few without benefits, which is why I earlier imagined Karlin was not reporting this story.

    Currently UK, Australia and Canada have heavily benefited from Boer emigration, even in the hundreds of thousands arriving (which is a highly educated and skilled demographic even relative to those countries – they developed nuclear weapons even).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    Currently UK, Australia and Canada have heavily benefited from Boer emigration
     
    Are the South Africans emigrating to Anglosphere countries really Boers? Ok, there are a few famous ones (iirc J.M.Coetzee who wrote that depressing Disgrace novel now lives in Australia), but I'd suppose the emigrants would be disproportionately of Anglo background (who are probably more likely to still have family ties outside South Africa than the Boers who have lived there for centuries).

    So far, it’s just some publicity (hype) in the media.
     
    I didn't wonder why Russia is willing to accept Boer immigrants (though that's an interesting question as well), but why this Vesti news service would use terms like "white genocide". It seems pretty high-risk for a state-owned news service to do that and might well be used in Western propaganda against Russia.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH

    , @Felix Keverich
    @Dmitry


    In the longrun, it would a great idea from (in this case local) authorities, to try to attract this immigrant. Any investment in this area (e.g. introduction of economic incentives), would likely be recovered soon from the improvement in human capital.
     
    You don't have a very high opinion of Russian people, do you? ;)

    We're talking about some hillbilly farmers here - how much of an improvement it would be really?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Dmitry

  24. @Stan d Mute
    I confess to some ambivalence here. I agree that this is a smart move politically for Russia. Wasn’t there some talk of Georgia taking in the Boers a few years ago?

    On the other hand, the Boers invited their extinction and could serve as an object lesson to the rest of the white population in the world. Live among Africans and you’ll be subsumed by their unrestrained fecundity and feral violence. We Americans at least had the sense to clear our part of North America from the native cannibalistic savages and put the remainder on reservations. Idiot Boers apparently thought the African’s nature made him a more amenable neighbor. Then again, so did Americans who found the aboriginals impossible to enslave while the African imports were happy so long as they had “tight pussy, loose shoes, and a warm place to shit.” Now there are 40,000,000+ Africans in America and every major city lies in ruin.

    At any rate, losing a few hundred thousand whites in South Africa is a small price to pay if it wakes up the rest of Europe and America that one ignores the fecundity of African savages at one’s existential peril. And rescuing them is a bit of a moral hazard isn’t it?

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Hyperborean, @artichoke, @Ben Sampson

    But the Boers are not really serving as a lesson now. How many people in the Anglosphere or Western Europe know or care about it?

    But if they flee to other countries then they will find it easier to propagate what happened to them in South Africa in the countries they live in.

    Idiot Boers apparently thought the African’s nature made him a more amenable neighbor.

    To be fair, the Bantustans were kind of aimed at separating the Africans, although they were not that effective.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    @Hyperborean


    But the Boers are not really serving as a lesson now. How many people in the Anglosphere or Western Europe know or care about it?
     
    It’s FAR easier for the media to overlook a few thousand tortured, mutilated, and murdered farmers than to ignore the entire white population of South Africa exterminated like so many Tutsis.

    But if they flee to other countries then they will find it easier to propagate what happened to them in South Africa in the countries they live in.
     
    Why do you think anybody would listen to the Boers after they’ve reached safety in Russia? Who, besides us deplorables, is listening now? Who listened when whites were slaughtered and chased out of Rhodesia (or any other post-colonial white outpost of civilization)?

    Replies: @Hyperborean

  25. German_reader says:
    @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    What’s the background behind that…just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?

     

    So far, it's just some publicity (hype) in the media.

    In the longrun, it would a great idea from (in this case local) authorities, to try to attract this immigrant. Any investment in this area (e.g. introduction of economic incentives), would likely be recovered soon from the improvement in human capital that it would create in the area.

    South Africa is one of the few countries in the world, which has this kind of demographic, while at the same time being lower in GDP per capita than Russia, which makes immigration to Russia a rational possibility.

    It is probably though not likely there will be more than a few without benefits, which is why I earlier imagined Karlin was not reporting this story.

    Currently UK, Australia and Canada have heavily benefited from Boer emigration, even in the hundreds of thousands arriving (which is a highly educated and skilled demographic even relative to those countries - they developed nuclear weapons even).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Felix Keverich

    Currently UK, Australia and Canada have heavily benefited from Boer emigration

    Are the South Africans emigrating to Anglosphere countries really Boers? Ok, there are a few famous ones (iirc J.M.Coetzee who wrote that depressing Disgrace novel now lives in Australia), but I’d suppose the emigrants would be disproportionately of Anglo background (who are probably more likely to still have family ties outside South Africa than the Boers who have lived there for centuries).

    So far, it’s just some publicity (hype) in the media.

    I didn’t wonder why Russia is willing to accept Boer immigrants (though that’s an interesting question as well), but why this Vesti news service would use terms like “white genocide”. It seems pretty high-risk for a state-owned news service to do that and might well be used in Western propaganda against Russia.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    I didn’t wonder why Russia is willing to accept Boer immigrants (though that’s an interesting question as well), but why this Vesti news service would use terms like “white genocide”. It seems pretty high-risk for a state-owned news service to do that and might well be used in Western propaganda against Russia.
     
    There's nothing like this in the report.

    This is just something added by a social media uploader to try to appeal to Westerners.

    The message English-language websites related to Russia, is aimed at appealing to Westerners, and follows Soviet era strategy of appealing for "disenfranchised" groups and relating to fashionable topics in the West.

    You can experience this also with Russia Today - it has developed its own, kind of unique ideology, which has already little relation to domestic media.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @DFH
    @German_reader


    Are the South Africans emigrating to Anglosphere countries really Boers?
     
    They are disproportionately Anglo, but there are still many Afrikaners living in London. Also lots of Jews from South Africa.
  26. Personally I like the take at the Daily Stormer – give them land for free, but have them convert to Orthodoxy.
    Either way, it’s a good thing for both Russia and the Boers.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Spisarevski

    Just checked out their latest. I see Anglin's been Thorfinnssoned:


    We’re going to have to take Canada, because they are a terrorist state of money thieves run by a known groper who can’t even keep his gosh darned fake eyebrows on straight.

    And we will have to establish a provisional government in Mexico in order to ensure peaceful mass deportations to that “country.” We will also use their population for slave labor.
     
  27. @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    What’s the background behind that…just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?

     

    So far, it's just some publicity (hype) in the media.

    In the longrun, it would a great idea from (in this case local) authorities, to try to attract this immigrant. Any investment in this area (e.g. introduction of economic incentives), would likely be recovered soon from the improvement in human capital that it would create in the area.

    South Africa is one of the few countries in the world, which has this kind of demographic, while at the same time being lower in GDP per capita than Russia, which makes immigration to Russia a rational possibility.

    It is probably though not likely there will be more than a few without benefits, which is why I earlier imagined Karlin was not reporting this story.

    Currently UK, Australia and Canada have heavily benefited from Boer emigration, even in the hundreds of thousands arriving (which is a highly educated and skilled demographic even relative to those countries - they developed nuclear weapons even).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Felix Keverich

    In the longrun, it would a great idea from (in this case local) authorities, to try to attract this immigrant. Any investment in this area (e.g. introduction of economic incentives), would likely be recovered soon from the improvement in human capital.

    You don’t have a very high opinion of Russian people, do you? 😉

    We’re talking about some hillbilly farmers here – how much of an improvement it would be really?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Felix Keverich

    Southern Russians probably have similar IQ to rural Boers (~95).

    However, these are not typical rural Boers, but rural Boers with at least $100,000 to spare. So, probably cleverer than the locals.

    And certainly much better work ethic, since they're essentially West Europeans from an earlier era.

    Replies: @Randy the Auditor

    , @Dmitry
    @Felix Keverich

    Probably you are correct, about the ones who be interested to come. Farmers? But maybe they're successful farmers (South Africa was historically known for farming achievements).

    In general, South African immigrants have a reputation around the world as a kind of elite immigration strata.

    Recall, South Africa was a country which developed nuclear weapons, won Nobel prizes in science, had elite universities, a food surplus, and a successful economy, but as a result of the chaotic political and crime situation in the 1990s, its best demographics want to emigrate.

    I was reading a article recently about the UK, has a shortage of computer science graduates, and as a result it is now receiving thousands of computer scientists from South Africa.

    -

    Australia is importing them to boost its economy.

    Articles like:


    Calling South African engineers: Australia wants you

    If you’ve ever thought about moving to Australia, you need to know that the land down under is desperate for South African engineers.
     
    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/calling-south-african-engineers-australia-wants-you/

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @Marcus

  28. @Mitleser
    @reiner Tor

    That is what you get for living in the emerging European neo-USSR.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    this is the best timeline

  29. @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    Vesti appears to be a VGTRK project, whose deputy director is Dmitry Kiselev.

    He's preddy based:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwLvPR2KedI

    He was also the guy who said that Russia can turn the US into nuclear ash. Very high energy fellow.

    He's also in charge of Sputnik, which is more "conspiratorial" and tbh lower quality than RT.

    RT is a separate media arm (though one that belongs to the same holding company as Sputnik), has more yuppie Anglophone types, and is more directly aimed at the foreign left/liberal audience. They were angry at Russia Insider after Charles Bausman's article on the Jews (which was reprinted on this website), but I have heard on the grapevine that it was the people around Kiselev who calmed things down.

    Also RT actually blacklists people for racism and anti-Semitism, and I'm not talking hardcore Daily Stormer types (catch the hint?). Sputnik doesn't do that AFAIK.

    Anyway, my point is... it's probably inaccurate to talk of a unitary "Kremlin" media strategy.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Yevardian

    Also this: Sputnik “Fake News” Corrects German Fake Documentary
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/sputnik-corrects-german-fake-documentary/

    Would RT publish something like this article?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Mitleser

    Good example of what I'm talking about. No, I very much doubt RT would publish that.

    Unfortunately, they also undermine their credibility by pushing unlikely conspiracy theories, such as their articles about how the US was evacuating ISIS fighters by helicopter.

    Replies: @iffen, @notanon

  30. @Felix Keverich
    @Dmitry


    In the longrun, it would a great idea from (in this case local) authorities, to try to attract this immigrant. Any investment in this area (e.g. introduction of economic incentives), would likely be recovered soon from the improvement in human capital.
     
    You don't have a very high opinion of Russian people, do you? ;)

    We're talking about some hillbilly farmers here - how much of an improvement it would be really?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Dmitry

    Southern Russians probably have similar IQ to rural Boers (~95).

    However, these are not typical rural Boers, but rural Boers with at least $100,000 to spare. So, probably cleverer than the locals.

    And certainly much better work ethic, since they’re essentially West Europeans from an earlier era.

    • Replies: @Randy the Auditor
    @Anatoly Karlin


    However, these are not typical rural Boers, but rural Boers with at least $100,000 to spare. So, probably cleverer than the locals.
     
    To me, the most surprising part of this story is that the kleptocrats who rule South Africa would allow Boer farmers to take that much money out of the country.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  31. @Mitleser
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Also this: Sputnik "Fake News" Corrects German Fake Documentary
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/sputnik-corrects-german-fake-documentary/

    Would RT publish something like this article?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Good example of what I’m talking about. No, I very much doubt RT would publish that.

    Unfortunately, they also undermine their credibility by pushing unlikely conspiracy theories, such as their articles about how the US was evacuating ISIS fighters by helicopter.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Unfortunately, they also undermine their credibility by pushing unlikely conspiracy theories,

    If the shoe fits ...

    , @notanon
    @Anatoly Karlin


    such as their articles about how the US was evacuating ISIS fighters by helicopter.
     
    i would be surprised if the US didn't have embedded spec ops to call in air/artillery strikes with the rebel groups along the Israeli border and they may have needed evac after the recent push in the Golan but those groups are as much a proxy merc army as jihadists.
  32. @Felix Keverich
    Actually, I'm not sure this is such a good idea. Russia is not the most comfortable place to live in - these people will grow disillusioned quickly. Their kids will move to the city and become leaders in Russian LGBTQ movement (because Dutch DNA).

    I know that Russia can't be worse, than South Africa, but at least back there they had a traditional lifestyle to cling to. In Russia it won't be the same.

    [email protected], I wrote my comment before I saw yours. But Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter - there WILL be disillusioned Boers.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Beckow, @The Big Red Scary, @pyrrhus, @Swan Knight, @Anonymous

    Their kids will move to the city and become leaders in Russian LGBTQ movement (because Dutch DNA).

    For the ROC this would probably be a better outcome than the Boers forming the nucleus of a Calvinist Taliban trying to convert the residents of Crimea.

  33. In 2013, an Afrikaner preacher asked me to look into resettlement in Russia. He travelled all over the Transvaal preaching so had a large congregation.

    I looked at the project for them. Foolishly I disclosed my research unlike these cynical sharks. Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit. This is not suitable if you wish to hand on your farm to future generations. Show me a farmer that doesn’t. Just now, the Afrikaners want a place to put their second sons. They want to hold on to RSA citizenship. That said, they are happy to go to Australia and Argentina. Russia is too alien.

    Georgia has previously hosted such a delegation.

    The southern Black Earth is very suitable for them. They are good at dry land farming which is needed in semi-desert like Volgograd.

    Someone is ripping them off by bringing them to Russia without going through the legal issues (or I am stupid not to gouge my clients, also probably true).

    In Georgia, the land is different. It is not suitable for Veldt farming.

    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years. Asian firms are prominent in this, indeed so much so, one questions just how much incentive they have been offered, especially in dairy.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @Philip Owen


    Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit. This is not suitable if you wish to hand on your farm to future generations. Show me a farmer that doesn’t. Just now, the Afrikaners want a place to put their second sons. They want to hold on to RSA citizenship.
     
    What about dual citizenship? Does the limit apply to people with dual citizenship (Russian + foreign)?

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @Philip Owen


    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years
     
    How do you mine farmland? I assume you mean added value farming in that the primary sales product will be beef or pork, with the main plant produce used for fodder? What about exotics that fetch higher prices in theory, such as kiwi or management of apiaries?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @iffen, @Philip Owen

    , @Dmitry
    @Philip Owen

    Interesting comment

    -
    .
    Yes currently , story is simply that one South African delegation went on vacation to visit around Stavropol, in which they said they were interested in becoming farmers in the area (and according to different articles, mentioned, this delegation said 20 families or 30 families could be interested).

    In other words, no actual story yet, beyond a repeat kind of event as in your own story.

    But the journalists find it interesting for national news this time. Perhaps the latter fact, results that the authorities will be motivated to give them some kind of better deal, that incentivizes them to actually come this time.

    , @notanon
    @Philip Owen


    I looked at the project for them. Foolishly I disclosed my research unlike these cynical sharks. Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit.
     
    very important point

    Russia should copy a version of what England did after the Black Death - keep the land state owned but sub-divide into family farms with 100 year leases, renewable by a child of the original lease holder for another 100 - that way people put the work in the improve the farm cos they know their kids will benefit but the land can't be sold off to a foreign agri-business
    .

    Replies: @Liza

  34. @Felix Keverich
    Actually, I'm not sure this is such a good idea. Russia is not the most comfortable place to live in - these people will grow disillusioned quickly. Their kids will move to the city and become leaders in Russian LGBTQ movement (because Dutch DNA).

    I know that Russia can't be worse, than South Africa, but at least back there they had a traditional lifestyle to cling to. In Russia it won't be the same.

    [email protected], I wrote my comment before I saw yours. But Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter - there WILL be disillusioned Boers.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Beckow, @The Big Red Scary, @pyrrhus, @Swan Knight, @Anonymous

    Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter – there WILL be disillusioned Boers

    First, everything is a laughing matter, why not? There are a few dozen Dutch farmers in south-central Slovakia, the land is cheap there, and it has worked out great. They drive home out of season and bring fresh Gouda to our markets. They politely say how they like the ‘old European feeling’, but never actually admit that they are escaping the Dutch demographic meltdown. Couldn’t be ‘racist’, right.

    Second, Western media will find an angle to demonise this no matter what. Boers stay in South Africa, ‘scared after they saw what Russia is really like‘. They come, things will be rocky as they always are with migrations, the possibilities for evil-Russia stories are endless: Putin ‘stole their bibles’, locals are morose, and the damn ‘propiska’.

    Third, nothing lights up a party like a few disillusioned Dutch lesbians. I say, bring them in.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Beckow


    Third, nothing lights up a party like a few disillusioned Dutch lesbians. I say, bring them in.
     
    Personal experience?

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Beckow

  35. @reiner Tor
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Wrong button.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Fixed.

  36. @Beckow
    @Felix Keverich


    Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter – there WILL be disillusioned Boers
     
    First, everything is a laughing matter, why not? There are a few dozen Dutch farmers in south-central Slovakia, the land is cheap there, and it has worked out great. They drive home out of season and bring fresh Gouda to our markets. They politely say how they like the 'old European feeling', but never actually admit that they are escaping the Dutch demographic meltdown. Couldn't be 'racist', right.

    Second, Western media will find an angle to demonise this no matter what. Boers stay in South Africa, 'scared after they saw what Russia is really like'. They come, things will be rocky as they always are with migrations, the possibilities for evil-Russia stories are endless: Putin 'stole their bibles', locals are morose, and the damn 'propiska'.

    Third, nothing lights up a party like a few disillusioned Dutch lesbians. I say, bring them in.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    Third, nothing lights up a party like a few disillusioned Dutch lesbians. I say, bring them in.

    Personal experience?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Hyperborean

    Were they disillusioned with lesbianism? Interested minds need to know.

    , @Beckow
    @Hyperborean

    Well, since you ask, I knew a Dutch girl who switched teams at Erasmus in Rotterdam and they knew how to party. Must be the herring and echte butter... Kuban will never be the same.

    Replies: @Buster Keaton’s Stunt Double

  37. @Philip Owen
    In 2013, an Afrikaner preacher asked me to look into resettlement in Russia. He travelled all over the Transvaal preaching so had a large congregation.

    I looked at the project for them. Foolishly I disclosed my research unlike these cynical sharks. Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit. This is not suitable if you wish to hand on your farm to future generations. Show me a farmer that doesn't. Just now, the Afrikaners want a place to put their second sons. They want to hold on to RSA citizenship. That said, they are happy to go to Australia and Argentina. Russia is too alien.

    Georgia has previously hosted such a delegation.

    The southern Black Earth is very suitable for them. They are good at dry land farming which is needed in semi-desert like Volgograd.

    Someone is ripping them off by bringing them to Russia without going through the legal issues (or I am stupid not to gouge my clients, also probably true).

    In Georgia, the land is different. It is not suitable for Veldt farming.

    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years. Asian firms are prominent in this, indeed so much so, one questions just how much incentive they have been offered, especially in dairy.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Daniel Chieh, @Dmitry, @notanon

    Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit. This is not suitable if you wish to hand on your farm to future generations. Show me a farmer that doesn’t. Just now, the Afrikaners want a place to put their second sons. They want to hold on to RSA citizenship.

    What about dual citizenship? Does the limit apply to people with dual citizenship (Russian + foreign)?

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Mitleser

    Russia does not allow dual citizenship. It is necessary to produce a certificate of renunciation to become a Russian citizen.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @AP, @siberiancat

  38. @Hyperborean
    @Beckow


    Third, nothing lights up a party like a few disillusioned Dutch lesbians. I say, bring them in.
     
    Personal experience?

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Beckow

    Were they disillusioned with lesbianism? Interested minds need to know.

  39. @Felix Keverich
    @Dmitry


    In the longrun, it would a great idea from (in this case local) authorities, to try to attract this immigrant. Any investment in this area (e.g. introduction of economic incentives), would likely be recovered soon from the improvement in human capital.
     
    You don't have a very high opinion of Russian people, do you? ;)

    We're talking about some hillbilly farmers here - how much of an improvement it would be really?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Dmitry

    Probably you are correct, about the ones who be interested to come. Farmers? But maybe they’re successful farmers (South Africa was historically known for farming achievements).

    In general, South African immigrants have a reputation around the world as a kind of elite immigration strata.

    Recall, South Africa was a country which developed nuclear weapons, won Nobel prizes in science, had elite universities, a food surplus, and a successful economy, but as a result of the chaotic political and crime situation in the 1990s, its best demographics want to emigrate.

    I was reading a article recently about the UK, has a shortage of computer science graduates, and as a result it is now receiving thousands of computer scientists from South Africa.

    Australia is importing them to boost its economy.

    Articles like:

    Calling South African engineers: Australia wants you

    If you’ve ever thought about moving to Australia, you need to know that the land down under is desperate for South African engineers.

    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/calling-south-african-engineers-australia-wants-you/

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    @Dmitry

    Good for them, I say we should let somebody else pick up this "prize". Diversity is always universally a bad thing even if it comes in the form of conservative white Protestants. Culturally alien minorities are TROUBLE.

    Replies: @notanon, @Dmitry

    , @Marcus
    @Dmitry

    A South African doctor performed the world's first successful heart transplant

  40. One has to ask however how this is a good idea long term? If white South Africans can get citizenship for $100 000, then eventually blacks will want in as well. When Western Europe succumbs to its camp of the saints, then eventually the black hordes will turn their gaze on other locations, bribing some Russian officials means that they can also reduce the price of entry as well.

    Once you open the door by just the tiniest amount it becomes impossible to ever close it again, this may not occur in the next five years or so, but by 30 years the pressure for blacks to enter the remaining white lands will be overwhelming, granting citizenship based on only the salary they earn is a very bad idea, either you make it explicit that it means whites only or don’t do it at all.

  41. @Philip Owen
    In 2013, an Afrikaner preacher asked me to look into resettlement in Russia. He travelled all over the Transvaal preaching so had a large congregation.

    I looked at the project for them. Foolishly I disclosed my research unlike these cynical sharks. Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit. This is not suitable if you wish to hand on your farm to future generations. Show me a farmer that doesn't. Just now, the Afrikaners want a place to put their second sons. They want to hold on to RSA citizenship. That said, they are happy to go to Australia and Argentina. Russia is too alien.

    Georgia has previously hosted such a delegation.

    The southern Black Earth is very suitable for them. They are good at dry land farming which is needed in semi-desert like Volgograd.

    Someone is ripping them off by bringing them to Russia without going through the legal issues (or I am stupid not to gouge my clients, also probably true).

    In Georgia, the land is different. It is not suitable for Veldt farming.

    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years. Asian firms are prominent in this, indeed so much so, one questions just how much incentive they have been offered, especially in dairy.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Daniel Chieh, @Dmitry, @notanon

    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years

    How do you mine farmland? I assume you mean added value farming in that the primary sales product will be beef or pork, with the main plant produce used for fodder? What about exotics that fetch higher prices in theory, such as kiwi or management of apiaries?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Daniel Chieh


    How do you mine farmland?
     
    The soil needs to be cultivated in a way which won’t deplete it completely. Monoculture (especially extreme monoculture) and some industrial farming methods result in very high yields... for a while. But after a while the soil gets depleted or completely washed away and it won’t be good for anything.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    , @iffen
    @Daniel Chieh

    How about alpacas? Is there any steppe left, or is all parking lots? Oh! Oh! Mink farms!

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Philip Owen, @Daniel Chieh

    , @Philip Owen
    @Daniel Chieh

    See @reiner Tor for mining.

    Kiwi needs a glass house. This is only possible with sanctions protection. Russian winters are severe and hydrocarbon prices are high. Even in the 1990's when they were low, soviet era glass houses went broke. The new ones are a huge waste of capital and will be out of business when counter sanctions end - originally scheduled for 2019. I am looking at Zambian tomatoes but a minimum of £15,000 to move a refridgerated container.

    Russia already has a strong artisan apiculture industry. There are some commercial farms in the Urals and around Lake Baikal and other places with a reputation for clean environment. Usually, honey is sold in covered markets local to production. That said, Mead is a popular drink in Russia rather on the scale, perhaps slightly less, of cider in England and Wales.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  42. @Daniel Chieh
    @Philip Owen


    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years
     
    How do you mine farmland? I assume you mean added value farming in that the primary sales product will be beef or pork, with the main plant produce used for fodder? What about exotics that fetch higher prices in theory, such as kiwi or management of apiaries?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @iffen, @Philip Owen

    How do you mine farmland?

    The soil needs to be cultivated in a way which won’t deplete it completely. Monoculture (especially extreme monoculture) and some industrial farming methods result in very high yields… for a while. But after a while the soil gets depleted or completely washed away and it won’t be good for anything.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @reiner Tor

    I see. Thank you.

  43. Being a White South African farmer is the single most dangerous profession in the world these days. The murder rate is around 300/100,000 per year

    That is nothing compared to being a journalist or “dissident” in Putlerreich tho. Blue checkmarks keep repeating that, so it must be true.

  44. @Mitleser
    @Philip Owen


    Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit. This is not suitable if you wish to hand on your farm to future generations. Show me a farmer that doesn’t. Just now, the Afrikaners want a place to put their second sons. They want to hold on to RSA citizenship.
     
    What about dual citizenship? Does the limit apply to people with dual citizenship (Russian + foreign)?

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    Russia does not allow dual citizenship. It is necessary to produce a certificate of renunciation to become a Russian citizen.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @Philip Owen


    Article 62

    1. A citizen of the Russian Federation may have the citizenship of a foreign State (dual citizenship) according to the federal law or an international agreement of the Russian Federation.

     

    http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-03.htm

    My father is such a dual citizen.

    I should not have expected something else from the perfidious Albion.

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Hyperborean

    , @AP
    @Philip Owen

    What about all those people with Russian passports from other republics?

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    , @siberiancat
    @Philip Owen

    I don't recall Steven Seagal, or Jeff Monson renouncing their US citizenship.

  45. @Mr. Hack
    Katherine had her Volga Germans, and now Putler will have his African Dutch farmers (also a Germanic group). Probably, plenty of hard working Ukrainians tilling the Russia soil too. I wonder what Russian land laws are like? Is farmland available for sale to foreigners? Will these new immigrants be granted instant citizenship?

    Replies: @iffen

    plenty of hard working Ukrainians tilling the Russia soil too.

    Looks like Ukrainians will be replaced by Boers. That’s what you get for being so recalcitrant and unreliable.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @iffen

    Ukrainains are by nature hard working survivors no matter where you find them, If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much for their well being.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @anonymous coward, @iffen

  46. @Daniel Chieh
    @Philip Owen


    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years
     
    How do you mine farmland? I assume you mean added value farming in that the primary sales product will be beef or pork, with the main plant produce used for fodder? What about exotics that fetch higher prices in theory, such as kiwi or management of apiaries?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @iffen, @Philip Owen

    How about alpacas? Is there any steppe left, or is all parking lots? Oh! Oh! Mink farms!

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @iffen

    Successful businessmen indulge in farming in Russia as elsewhere. A friend of mine fell for the ostrich pitch. (Wanted to fall I think). Alpaca, like Ostriches need supporting infrastructure of demand for meat, demand for by products, vets, licenced slaughterhouses, fodder suppliers, barn builders. You can't just buy a pair of Alpacas. You need to invest in the whole supply chain.

    Replies: @iffen

    , @Philip Owen
    @iffen

    And fur is no longer in fashion with young women. That's happened in the last 5 years. Can't be given away now. I've tried.

    Replies: @iffen

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @iffen

    Not too far from where I live, some guy has like eight alpacas or something in his ranch. They're cute, though I can't imagine they take the heat well. I suspect the demand for highly priced, locally sourced alpaca yarn for SWPL craft projects is unique to the US.

    Replies: @iffen

  47. @Daniel Chieh
    @Philip Owen


    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years
     
    How do you mine farmland? I assume you mean added value farming in that the primary sales product will be beef or pork, with the main plant produce used for fodder? What about exotics that fetch higher prices in theory, such as kiwi or management of apiaries?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @iffen, @Philip Owen

    See for mining.

    Kiwi needs a glass house. This is only possible with sanctions protection. Russian winters are severe and hydrocarbon prices are high. Even in the 1990’s when they were low, soviet era glass houses went broke. The new ones are a huge waste of capital and will be out of business when counter sanctions end – originally scheduled for 2019. I am looking at Zambian tomatoes but a minimum of £15,000 to move a refridgerated container.

    Russia already has a strong artisan apiculture industry. There are some commercial farms in the Urals and around Lake Baikal and other places with a reputation for clean environment. Usually, honey is sold in covered markets local to production. That said, Mead is a popular drink in Russia rather on the scale, perhaps slightly less, of cider in England and Wales.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Philip Owen


    I am looking at Zambian tomatoes but a minimum of £15,000 to move a refridgerated container.
     
    This seems insane. I assume the tomatoes are shipped unripened to prevent damage and later ripened with ethylene gas?

    Replies: @Philip Owen

  48. @Hyperborean
    @Beckow


    Third, nothing lights up a party like a few disillusioned Dutch lesbians. I say, bring them in.
     
    Personal experience?

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Beckow

    Well, since you ask, I knew a Dutch girl who switched teams at Erasmus in Rotterdam and they knew how to party. Must be the herring and echte butter… Kuban will never be the same.

    • Replies: @Buster Keaton’s Stunt Double
    @Beckow

    She has to go back.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

  49. @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    Currently UK, Australia and Canada have heavily benefited from Boer emigration
     
    Are the South Africans emigrating to Anglosphere countries really Boers? Ok, there are a few famous ones (iirc J.M.Coetzee who wrote that depressing Disgrace novel now lives in Australia), but I'd suppose the emigrants would be disproportionately of Anglo background (who are probably more likely to still have family ties outside South Africa than the Boers who have lived there for centuries).

    So far, it’s just some publicity (hype) in the media.
     
    I didn't wonder why Russia is willing to accept Boer immigrants (though that's an interesting question as well), but why this Vesti news service would use terms like "white genocide". It seems pretty high-risk for a state-owned news service to do that and might well be used in Western propaganda against Russia.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH

    I didn’t wonder why Russia is willing to accept Boer immigrants (though that’s an interesting question as well), but why this Vesti news service would use terms like “white genocide”. It seems pretty high-risk for a state-owned news service to do that and might well be used in Western propaganda against Russia.

    There’s nothing like this in the report.

    This is just something added by a social media uploader to try to appeal to Westerners.

    The message English-language websites related to Russia, is aimed at appealing to Westerners, and follows Soviet era strategy of appealing for “disenfranchised” groups and relating to fashionable topics in the West.

    You can experience this also with Russia Today – it has developed its own, kind of unique ideology, which has already little relation to domestic media.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dmitry

    It claims to be:


    This is the official channel of the main TV news channels of the largest media holding in Russia, the state-owned VGRTK.
     
    Though yes, it certainly doesn't look official. Probably something semi-official. (Translating all this stuff isn't an entirely trivial undertaking. And if it's unsanctioned, the channels in question would find it easy to take it down).

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Anonymous

  50. Like settlement of Volga Germans. Nice.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @AP

    I had Volga German sites in mind wit Protestant Church sites to boot. That history unsettled the Afrikaners.

  51. @German_reader
    So this Vesti news service is owned by the Russian state...and uses terms like "white genocide"???
    What's the background behind that...just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?
    I don't watch Russia today, but I always got the impression it was fairly pc on matters of immigration, race, multiculturalism etc. (e.g. very much in favour of the Black Lives matter movement in the US)...is Russia now trying to diversify its media aimed at foreign audiences, to appeal to foreign nationalists?
    What a weird world we're living in.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anatoly Karlin, @Dante, @Dmitry, @songbird, @Chuck, @Anatoly Karlin

    This is not strategy but tactics, IMO. Think of it as the vanity of politicians being stroked. Make X country look bad. Make our country look good. In this case X is the EU.

    They would be smart to actually have a strategy: be oppositional to the BBC and other state news outlets. It would grow their audience. Difficult task though, since state news is organically leftwing.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @songbird


    [S]tate news is organically leftwing.
     
    Could you please elaborate on this, as well as what your conception of 'leftism' is?

    Replies: @songbird

  52. @Philip Owen
    @Mitleser

    Russia does not allow dual citizenship. It is necessary to produce a certificate of renunciation to become a Russian citizen.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @AP, @siberiancat

    Article 62

    1. A citizen of the Russian Federation may have the citizenship of a foreign State (dual citizenship) according to the federal law or an international agreement of the Russian Federation.

    http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-03.htm

    My father is such a dual citizen.

    I should not have expected something else from the perfidious Albion.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Mitleser

    Not in administrative practice.

    Here is another example of a constitutional right that is not available in real life.

    "Citizens of the Russian Federation shall have the right to assemble peacefully, without weapons, hold rallies, meetings and demonstrations, marches and pickets."

    In Russia, the migration service should register you where you chose to stay, according to the constitution. In practice you have 7 days to register with permissions and paperwork satisfactory to the local Migration Service whose rules vary by Oblast.

    , @Hyperborean
    @Mitleser

    I am not entirely sure, but I think that while Russians are allowed to have foreign passports, the process of naturalisation requires one to give up their old citizenship to acquire Russian citizenship.

    Although since it says 'international agreements with RF' perhaps it depends on the country?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

  53. @iffen
    @Daniel Chieh

    How about alpacas? Is there any steppe left, or is all parking lots? Oh! Oh! Mink farms!

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Philip Owen, @Daniel Chieh

    Successful businessmen indulge in farming in Russia as elsewhere. A friend of mine fell for the ostrich pitch. (Wanted to fall I think). Alpaca, like Ostriches need supporting infrastructure of demand for meat, demand for by products, vets, licenced slaughterhouses, fodder suppliers, barn builders. You can’t just buy a pair of Alpacas. You need to invest in the whole supply chain.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Philip Owen

    Yeah, I'm gonna stick to something safe and stable like the chinchilla business.

  54. @songbird
    @German_reader

    This is not strategy but tactics, IMO. Think of it as the vanity of politicians being stroked. Make X country look bad. Make our country look good. In this case X is the EU.

    They would be smart to actually have a strategy: be oppositional to the BBC and other state news outlets. It would grow their audience. Difficult task though, since state news is organically leftwing.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    [S]tate news is organically leftwing.

    Could you please elaborate on this, as well as what your conception of ‘leftism’ is?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Hyperborean

    Certain professions attract people with certain psychological predilections. Actors tend to be leftwing, and so Hollywood is leftwing. It is more leftwing than just the sum of its parts, since the group ostracizes, but I still consider it organically leftwing, or put another way, it is self-organizing.

    News is quite similar, IMO. There is a natural bias in the political orientation of people wanting to be in the media. For example: let's say it is 60:40. State news is another filter, making it 80:20. The difference comes partly from the esteem the state is held in. State news is upheld as unbiased, since it is not commercial. I knew a guy who wore a Che T-shirt who praised the BBC, while ridiculing other news for their biases.

    I'd suggest there is parallel between them both: they are professions that seek audiences, and anything that does is likely to have a leftward bias. Regarding the news, the best test of whether it is true is simple observation. I can't think of a single rightward state-news outlet.

    My theory about leftism: at base it is mainly hereditary. Think of it as being highly polygenic, like height or intelligence. Only, it differs greatly from those traits because it is more about interpersonal psychology, and so can manifest itself in radically different ways, depending on the environment or culture.

    It is an evolved group-based power-dynamic survival strategy. It evolved to harness greater numbers as a force multiplier, against the individual or against smaller groups. Mostly to redistribute resources.

    Leftists readily galvanize before a leader or the state - it is about organizing the group.
    They signal each other in countless ways - organizing the group.
    Tend to be more verbal - organizing the group.
    They tend towards xenophilia and loose sexuality - growing the group.
    They tend to impulsivity - necessary for group action.


    The problem as I see it is that the strategy wasn't evolved to operate in the modern world. Xenopihilia in the old days might have meant accepting in the members of some defeated clan that had been dispossessed of their hereditary land in a nearby province, if you could feed them. There were a lot of natural checks and balances that have been removed. Somalis on jetplanes fed by taxes aren't the same as a the remnants of some decimated clan of one's countrymen making a deadly, two-hundred mile trek through snow and freezing temperatures, and you needing to have a surplus in order to accept them.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @ThreeCranes

  55. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Mitleser

    Good example of what I'm talking about. No, I very much doubt RT would publish that.

    Unfortunately, they also undermine their credibility by pushing unlikely conspiracy theories, such as their articles about how the US was evacuating ISIS fighters by helicopter.

    Replies: @iffen, @notanon

    Unfortunately, they also undermine their credibility by pushing unlikely conspiracy theories,

    If the shoe fits …

  56. @Mitleser
    @Philip Owen


    Article 62

    1. A citizen of the Russian Federation may have the citizenship of a foreign State (dual citizenship) according to the federal law or an international agreement of the Russian Federation.

     

    http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-03.htm

    My father is such a dual citizen.

    I should not have expected something else from the perfidious Albion.

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Hyperborean

    Not in administrative practice.

    Here is another example of a constitutional right that is not available in real life.

    “Citizens of the Russian Federation shall have the right to assemble peacefully, without weapons, hold rallies, meetings and demonstrations, marches and pickets.”

    In Russia, the migration service should register you where you chose to stay, according to the constitution. In practice you have 7 days to register with permissions and paperwork satisfactory to the local Migration Service whose rules vary by Oblast.

  57. @Philip Owen
    @Mitleser

    Russia does not allow dual citizenship. It is necessary to produce a certificate of renunciation to become a Russian citizen.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @AP, @siberiancat

    What about all those people with Russian passports from other republics?

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @AP

    That's allowed. Like Medevedev handing out Russian passports to South Ossetians. Most big Russian Consulates have resettlement teams to bring them back. However, ethnic Russians from the Donbass who do not have Russian passports find migration difficult. Non CIS citizens have to renounce.

  58. @Philip Owen
    @iffen

    Successful businessmen indulge in farming in Russia as elsewhere. A friend of mine fell for the ostrich pitch. (Wanted to fall I think). Alpaca, like Ostriches need supporting infrastructure of demand for meat, demand for by products, vets, licenced slaughterhouses, fodder suppliers, barn builders. You can't just buy a pair of Alpacas. You need to invest in the whole supply chain.

    Replies: @iffen

    Yeah, I’m gonna stick to something safe and stable like the chinchilla business.

  59. @AP
    Like settlement of Volga Germans. Nice.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    I had Volga German sites in mind wit Protestant Church sites to boot. That history unsettled the Afrikaners.

  60. @Mitleser
    @Philip Owen


    Article 62

    1. A citizen of the Russian Federation may have the citizenship of a foreign State (dual citizenship) according to the federal law or an international agreement of the Russian Federation.

     

    http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-03.htm

    My father is such a dual citizen.

    I should not have expected something else from the perfidious Albion.

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Hyperborean

    I am not entirely sure, but I think that while Russians are allowed to have foreign passports, the process of naturalisation requires one to give up their old citizenship to acquire Russian citizenship.

    Although since it says ‘international agreements with RF’ perhaps it depends on the country?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Hyperborean

    You are correct.

    Russian citizens can acquire foreign citizenships with abandon (though this precludes them from certain careers in the state sector).

    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

    PS. This is of course a very stupid law that needs to be abolished ASAP. Qualified foreigners w/out a criminal record who have some level of proficiency with Russian should be allowed to become citizens. I believe that Russia should also sell citizenships, like most of the civilized world does. I would love for Russia to become a refuge for and benefit from Western crooks. They will be portrayed as victims of Western human rights abuses, just like their Russian counterparts gallivanting around London. Shkreli did nothing wrong!

    Replies: @iffen, @utu, @Jon0815, @Anarcho-Supremacist

  61. @iffen
    @Daniel Chieh

    How about alpacas? Is there any steppe left, or is all parking lots? Oh! Oh! Mink farms!

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Philip Owen, @Daniel Chieh

    And fur is no longer in fashion with young women. That’s happened in the last 5 years. Can’t be given away now. I’ve tried.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Philip Owen

    That’s happened in the last 5 years. Can’t be given away now. I’ve tried.

    I don't understand how these monumental changes take place so quickly. Not only that, I haven't read anyone who really understands how it happens.

    Replies: @notanon

  62. @Mitleser
    @Stan d Mute


    We Americans at least had the sense to clear our part of North America from the native cannibalistic savages and put the remainder on reservations.
     
    Some modern Americans seems to forget that the Native Americans were hit by apocalyptic plagues which weakened them and depopulated the Americas.
    Otherwise, North America would still have a large population of Native Americans.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute

    Otherwise, North America would still have a large population of Native Americans.

    Maybe, but they’d be on reservations anyway if they hadn’t succumbed to disease and weren’t slaughtered in war. Our Founders weren’t squeamish about calling a savage a “savage” and had firsthand experience with them. From our Declaration of Independence and cut/pasted from Takimag’s Jim Goad article on the subject:

    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

    http://takimag.com/article/those_poor_helpless_indian_savages_jim_goad

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Stan d Mute


    Maybe, but they’d be on reservations anyway if they hadn’t succumbed to disease and weren’t slaughtered in war.
     
    I don't believe it. Without the apocalyptic plagues, American Indians would quickly take up Western government practices, Western technology and Western religion. History shows that Indians were some of the quickest people to assimilate Western culture. (Unlike Africans.) Also, they'd definitely be Roman Catholic, not Protestant. Also, there would be a lot of them -- Western civilization + American food = population growth.

    A modern USA that is 50% Roman Catholic Native is an interesting alternative history timeline to explore.

    I'd guess the blacks would be shipped back to Africa in that timeline, though. Can't imagine the native constituency tolerating an African underclass.

    I'd also imagine lots more 'state rights' in that timeline -- even with a unified USA, the natives would probably want to leave more room for remnants of tribal traditions.

    All in all, probably a better timeline than this one.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Philip Owen, @Truth

  63. @AP
    @Philip Owen

    What about all those people with Russian passports from other republics?

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    That’s allowed. Like Medevedev handing out Russian passports to South Ossetians. Most big Russian Consulates have resettlement teams to bring them back. However, ethnic Russians from the Donbass who do not have Russian passports find migration difficult. Non CIS citizens have to renounce.

  64. @Hyperborean
    @Mitleser

    I am not entirely sure, but I think that while Russians are allowed to have foreign passports, the process of naturalisation requires one to give up their old citizenship to acquire Russian citizenship.

    Although since it says 'international agreements with RF' perhaps it depends on the country?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    You are correct.

    Russian citizens can acquire foreign citizenships with abandon (though this precludes them from certain careers in the state sector).

    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

    PS. This is of course a very stupid law that needs to be abolished ASAP. Qualified foreigners w/out a criminal record who have some level of proficiency with Russian should be allowed to become citizens. I believe that Russia should also sell citizenships, like most of the civilized world does. I would love for Russia to become a refuge for and benefit from Western crooks. They will be portrayed as victims of Western human rights abuses, just like their Russian counterparts gallivanting around London. Shkreli did nothing wrong!

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.


    Some of us note that 'Murican citizenship is not in this list.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @utu
    @Anatoly Karlin


    This is of course a very stupid law
     
    No, you do not want to have people with multiple citizenships. If Austrians and Finns do not want to give up their original citizenships it just means they are not a good material to be Russian citizens.

    A third in-between possibility should be offered: a permanent resident visa that could be revoked upon (1) conviction in criminal trial and (2) engaging in activities intended to hurt Russia's national interest.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @Jon0815
    @Anatoly Karlin


    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.
     
    Unless you are Steven Seagal. Presumably they made an exception for him.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.
     
    I plan on immigrating to Russia myself someday, and would prefer to do so as a citizen rather than legal permanent resident (how hard is it to obtain the Russian equivalent of a green card?), but not if it means giving up US citizenship.

    Replies: @songbird, @Anatoly Karlin, @Anonymous

    , @Anarcho-Supremacist
    @Anatoly Karlin


    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.
     
    Does that apply if you are "given" citizenship from the president like Gérard Depardieu and few others were?

    Replies: @Mitleser

  65. @Philip Owen
    @iffen

    And fur is no longer in fashion with young women. That's happened in the last 5 years. Can't be given away now. I've tried.

    Replies: @iffen

    That’s happened in the last 5 years. Can’t be given away now. I’ve tried.

    I don’t understand how these monumental changes take place so quickly. Not only that, I haven’t read anyone who really understands how it happens.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @iffen


    I don’t understand how these monumental changes take place so quickly.
     
    the majority of people evolved to be conformist cos it made evolutionary sense

    (i.e. if previous generations survived by doing x then carry on doing x)

    what they conform to is decided by the dominant moral authority which used to be church, parents, village elders etc

    however the current dominant moral authority in the West is the TV

    (which is how the West became culturally poisoned)

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  66. @Hyperborean
    @Stan d Mute

    But the Boers are not really serving as a lesson now. How many people in the Anglosphere or Western Europe know or care about it?

    But if they flee to other countries then they will find it easier to propagate what happened to them in South Africa in the countries they live in.


    Idiot Boers apparently thought the African’s nature made him a more amenable neighbor.
     
    To be fair, the Bantustans were kind of aimed at separating the Africans, although they were not that effective.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute

    But the Boers are not really serving as a lesson now. How many people in the Anglosphere or Western Europe know or care about it?

    It’s FAR easier for the media to overlook a few thousand tortured, mutilated, and murdered farmers than to ignore the entire white population of South Africa exterminated like so many Tutsis.

    But if they flee to other countries then they will find it easier to propagate what happened to them in South Africa in the countries they live in.

    Why do you think anybody would listen to the Boers after they’ve reached safety in Russia? Who, besides us deplorables, is listening now? Who listened when whites were slaughtered and chased out of Rhodesia (or any other post-colonial white outpost of civilization)?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Stan d Mute


    It’s FAR easier for the media to overlook a few thousand tortured, mutilated, and murdered farmers than to ignore the entire white population of South Africa exterminated like so many Tutsis.
     
    Except they are not being killed all at once like the Tutsis, rather they are being driven out through slowly increasing pressure (even the land confiscation decree was only passed recently despite years of agitation from the ilks of the Economic Freedom Fighters).

    Why do you think anybody would listen to the Boers after they’ve reached safety in Russia? Who, besides us deplorables, is listening now? Who listened when whites were slaughtered and chased out of Rhodesia (or any other post-colonial white outpost of civilization)?
     
    Although it is kind of anecdotal, the first time I heard of the ethnic cleansing of Russians* during the Tajik civil war was from reading stories of refugees who had ended up in America.

    At the very least there might be increased awareness among the Russian populace of the Boers' situation.

    And even if there isn't, at least they might form a reliable bloc similar the way the Algerian pied-noirs became a loyal Front National bloc in the South of France after they were ethnically cleansed by the Arabs.

    *Although I don't think any of the Tajik factions were explicitly targeting Russians, the effect was the same.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute

  67. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Hyperborean

    You are correct.

    Russian citizens can acquire foreign citizenships with abandon (though this precludes them from certain careers in the state sector).

    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

    PS. This is of course a very stupid law that needs to be abolished ASAP. Qualified foreigners w/out a criminal record who have some level of proficiency with Russian should be allowed to become citizens. I believe that Russia should also sell citizenships, like most of the civilized world does. I would love for Russia to become a refuge for and benefit from Western crooks. They will be portrayed as victims of Western human rights abuses, just like their Russian counterparts gallivanting around London. Shkreli did nothing wrong!

    Replies: @iffen, @utu, @Jon0815, @Anarcho-Supremacist

    Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

    Some of us note that ‘Murican citizenship is not in this list.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @iffen

    More that I just forgot, though I shouldn't have, since one of the persons described by this is an occasional commenter on this very blog!

    Of course American citizenship can be inferior in that the US makes impudent and insane claims on your earnings. And doesn't give you Schengen access.

    Replies: @iffen, @Josep

  68. @iffen
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.


    Some of us note that 'Murican citizenship is not in this list.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    More that I just forgot, though I shouldn’t have, since one of the persons described by this is an occasional commenter on this very blog!

    Of course American citizenship can be inferior in that the US makes impudent and insane claims on your earnings. And doesn’t give you Schengen access.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Anatoly Karlin

    the US makes impudent and insane claims on your earnings

    Frigging commies.

    , @Josep
    @Anatoly Karlin


    the US makes impudent and insane claims on your earnings
     
    Don't know if this is part of it, but let's not forget that citizens of the US, when living abroad, have to pay taxes to both the US and the country they're living in. The only other country to perform citizenship-based taxation is Eritrea.
    (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-31/fatca-needs-go-unfortunately-fatca-refugees-are-never-coming-back)
    With what Trump is doing in the Middle East, I doubt he'll repeal FATCA before 2020.
  69. Great news if true (but I suspect it’s not). SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened. Apartheid ended but they still control most of the land and economy. Let Russia worry about them and good luck to Russia. Soon they’ll be demanding an independent Boer republic and special language and cultural privileges. And they’ll need serfs but serfdom ended long ago.

    One person the Boers won’t run into is Anatoly Karlin, who claims to live in Russia but we know that’s not true.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Okechukwu

    My Dear Okechukwuyusha,

    I eagerly await to see pictures of your splendid apartment in the bustling downtown of Lagos.

    Sincerely,

    Your Dear Friend.

    , @iffen
    @Okechukwu

    SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened.


    Then we will see the economic miracle of Zimbabwe re-created.

    Replies: @Okechukwu

    , @songbird
    @Okechukwu

    When Nigeria's economy outpaces yours, you know your country is fracked. Even if Nigeria has Indian-tier per capita, and is on its own spectacular, post-apocalyptic implosion course.

    But the real question is, when will the Bantu go home? Lagos only needs a few more million to reach 100 million by 2100. Of course, I'm talking about just one city. The more proper scale for the country is 1 billion. And any of them could be the next Einstein. It will be such a vibrant, space-faring, next "China of Africa" place. You should return, Oakie, so your grandchildren don't miss out on being part of the great Nigerian superpower that will be.

    , @Rattus Norwegius
    @Okechukwu

    "SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened. "
    It is a weak stranglehold.

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Okechukwu

    We'd rather have millions of Boers than even thousands of you, buddy.

  70. @Anatoly Karlin
    @iffen

    More that I just forgot, though I shouldn't have, since one of the persons described by this is an occasional commenter on this very blog!

    Of course American citizenship can be inferior in that the US makes impudent and insane claims on your earnings. And doesn't give you Schengen access.

    Replies: @iffen, @Josep

    the US makes impudent and insane claims on your earnings

    Frigging commies.

  71. @Spisarevski
    Personally I like the take at the Daily Stormer - give them land for free, but have them convert to Orthodoxy.
    Either way, it's a good thing for both Russia and the Boers.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Just checked out their latest. I see Anglin’s been Thorfinnssoned:

    We’re going to have to take Canada, because they are a terrorist state of money thieves run by a known groper who can’t even keep his gosh darned fake eyebrows on straight.

    And we will have to establish a provisional government in Mexico in order to ensure peaceful mass deportations to that “country.” We will also use their population for slave labor.

  72. @German_reader
    So this Vesti news service is owned by the Russian state...and uses terms like "white genocide"???
    What's the background behind that...just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?
    I don't watch Russia today, but I always got the impression it was fairly pc on matters of immigration, race, multiculturalism etc. (e.g. very much in favour of the Black Lives matter movement in the US)...is Russia now trying to diversify its media aimed at foreign audiences, to appeal to foreign nationalists?
    What a weird world we're living in.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anatoly Karlin, @Dante, @Dmitry, @songbird, @Chuck, @Anatoly Karlin

    OY VEY!

  73. @Stan d Mute
    @Hyperborean


    But the Boers are not really serving as a lesson now. How many people in the Anglosphere or Western Europe know or care about it?
     
    It’s FAR easier for the media to overlook a few thousand tortured, mutilated, and murdered farmers than to ignore the entire white population of South Africa exterminated like so many Tutsis.

    But if they flee to other countries then they will find it easier to propagate what happened to them in South Africa in the countries they live in.
     
    Why do you think anybody would listen to the Boers after they’ve reached safety in Russia? Who, besides us deplorables, is listening now? Who listened when whites were slaughtered and chased out of Rhodesia (or any other post-colonial white outpost of civilization)?

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    It’s FAR easier for the media to overlook a few thousand tortured, mutilated, and murdered farmers than to ignore the entire white population of South Africa exterminated like so many Tutsis.

    Except they are not being killed all at once like the Tutsis, rather they are being driven out through slowly increasing pressure (even the land confiscation decree was only passed recently despite years of agitation from the ilks of the Economic Freedom Fighters).

    Why do you think anybody would listen to the Boers after they’ve reached safety in Russia? Who, besides us deplorables, is listening now? Who listened when whites were slaughtered and chased out of Rhodesia (or any other post-colonial white outpost of civilization)?

    Although it is kind of anecdotal, the first time I heard of the ethnic cleansing of Russians* during the Tajik civil war was from reading stories of refugees who had ended up in America.

    At the very least there might be increased awareness among the Russian populace of the Boers’ situation.

    And even if there isn’t, at least they might form a reliable bloc similar the way the Algerian pied-noirs became a loyal Front National bloc in the South of France after they were ethnically cleansed by the Arabs.

    *Although I don’t think any of the Tajik factions were explicitly targeting Russians, the effect was the same.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    @Hyperborean

    IF I believed it were possible that the lesson may be learned (and learned well) with an exodus of white South Africans, I’d agree with you. But I guess I’m more pessimistic (and perhaps thus more realist). I’m not even sure the Boers themselves have learned the lesson.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  74. @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    I didn’t wonder why Russia is willing to accept Boer immigrants (though that’s an interesting question as well), but why this Vesti news service would use terms like “white genocide”. It seems pretty high-risk for a state-owned news service to do that and might well be used in Western propaganda against Russia.
     
    There's nothing like this in the report.

    This is just something added by a social media uploader to try to appeal to Westerners.

    The message English-language websites related to Russia, is aimed at appealing to Westerners, and follows Soviet era strategy of appealing for "disenfranchised" groups and relating to fashionable topics in the West.

    You can experience this also with Russia Today - it has developed its own, kind of unique ideology, which has already little relation to domestic media.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    It claims to be:

    This is the official channel of the main TV news channels of the largest media holding in Russia, the state-owned VGRTK.

    Though yes, it certainly doesn’t look official. Probably something semi-official. (Translating all this stuff isn’t an entirely trivial undertaking. And if it’s unsanctioned, the channels in question would find it easy to take it down).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Yes it looks like some kind of officially funded project (to build this English youtube channel), but the German Reader was laughing about the controversial tabloid style title added to the upload.

    I was saying that the title is written by the person uploading the videos, which is a social media manager, who is aiming to write something dramatic or controversial to get otherwise uninterested Western audiences to click on it. (Job performance of social media manager is based on whether you receive clicks: if the video receives 100,000 views, he's doing a good job - if it gets only 20 views, time to find a new social media people).

    Editorial intention of the report itself (which is not made for foreigners to watch), is not to talk about a genocide in the government's important BRICS ally South Africa - but rather to boast about the fact that even these developed, white people are wanting to come to live in Russia.

    , @Anonymous
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I'm a native English speaker with some grasp of the Russian language. I'm the main editor in the news division of the localization studio that translates and edits these clips (native Russian speakers write a translation in a .srt file, I try to make it look like normal English). it's definitely official. I've even been told that Kiselyov knows English and watches his segments on there.

  75. @Okechukwu
    Great news if true (but I suspect it's not). SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened. Apartheid ended but they still control most of the land and economy. Let Russia worry about them and good luck to Russia. Soon they'll be demanding an independent Boer republic and special language and cultural privileges. And they'll need serfs but serfdom ended long ago.

    One person the Boers won't run into is Anatoly Karlin, who claims to live in Russia but we know that's not true.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @iffen, @songbird, @Rattus Norwegius, @RadicalCenter

    My Dear Okechukwuyusha,

    I eagerly await to see pictures of your splendid apartment in the bustling downtown of Lagos.

    Sincerely,

    Your Dear Friend.

    • LOL: Spisarevski
  76. @Hyperborean
    @songbird


    [S]tate news is organically leftwing.
     
    Could you please elaborate on this, as well as what your conception of 'leftism' is?

    Replies: @songbird

    Certain professions attract people with certain psychological predilections. Actors tend to be leftwing, and so Hollywood is leftwing. It is more leftwing than just the sum of its parts, since the group ostracizes, but I still consider it organically leftwing, or put another way, it is self-organizing.

    News is quite similar, IMO. There is a natural bias in the political orientation of people wanting to be in the media. For example: let’s say it is 60:40. State news is another filter, making it 80:20. The difference comes partly from the esteem the state is held in. State news is upheld as unbiased, since it is not commercial. I knew a guy who wore a Che T-shirt who praised the BBC, while ridiculing other news for their biases.

    I’d suggest there is parallel between them both: they are professions that seek audiences, and anything that does is likely to have a leftward bias. Regarding the news, the best test of whether it is true is simple observation. I can’t think of a single rightward state-news outlet.

    My theory about leftism: at base it is mainly hereditary. Think of it as being highly polygenic, like height or intelligence. Only, it differs greatly from those traits because it is more about interpersonal psychology, and so can manifest itself in radically different ways, depending on the environment or culture.

    It is an evolved group-based power-dynamic survival strategy. It evolved to harness greater numbers as a force multiplier, against the individual or against smaller groups. Mostly to redistribute resources.

    Leftists readily galvanize before a leader or the state – it is about organizing the group.
    They signal each other in countless ways – organizing the group.
    Tend to be more verbal – organizing the group.
    They tend towards xenophilia and loose sexuality – growing the group.
    They tend to impulsivity – necessary for group action.

    The problem as I see it is that the strategy wasn’t evolved to operate in the modern world. Xenopihilia in the old days might have meant accepting in the members of some defeated clan that had been dispossessed of their hereditary land in a nearby province, if you could feed them. There were a lot of natural checks and balances that have been removed. Somalis on jetplanes fed by taxes aren’t the same as a the remnants of some decimated clan of one’s countrymen making a deadly, two-hundred mile trek through snow and freezing temperatures, and you needing to have a surplus in order to accept them.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @songbird


    [T]hey are professions that seek audiences, and anything that does is likely to have a leftward bias.
     
    What about UK tabloids? Along with the mindless celebrity gossip and clickbait headlines some of them (e.g. the Daily Mail) don't mind showing pictures of Africans flooding European beaches and complaining about 'Romanians' if it gets them views.

    For example: let’s say it is 60:40. State news is another filter, making it 80:20.
     
    While Anglosphere and Western European state media is comfortablely Liberal, there are well-known Liberal private newspapers and TV stations that are even more Liberal e.g. The Guardian is usually far more Liberal than the relatively anodyne and pernicious BBC.

    Of course the journalists who work at state media may hold more radical Liberal views than what they present on the programmes.

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @songbird

    , @ThreeCranes
    @songbird

    Fundamentally, a "leftist" believes that he has been on the receiving end of a miscarriage of justice as dealt out by the established system. In his unselfconscious vanity he takes it as self evident that the cause for his failure to live up to his high opinion of himself must lie in the outer world. The leftist then is continually on the lookout for other victims with whom he forms alliances so as to strengthen his position vis a vis the flawed but all-powerful, tyrannical system. Viz., Sailer's "coalition of the fringes". Having been rooked by the rigged system, the Leftist feels no compunction to conform to fair standards and no remorse in soaking the beneficiaries of such a system through various means of appropriation.

    A "conservative" believes the system is fundamentally just and never more so than when it strives to distribute rewards impartially, without favor, i.e. meritocratically. Also, that a "Law" that is shot through with exceptions for special interest groups is not a "Law" at all in the strict sense of the word, it is privilege and special pleading.

    Conservatives invite rank ordering by objective testing; lefties hate the very concepts.

  77. @Okechukwu
    Great news if true (but I suspect it's not). SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened. Apartheid ended but they still control most of the land and economy. Let Russia worry about them and good luck to Russia. Soon they'll be demanding an independent Boer republic and special language and cultural privileges. And they'll need serfs but serfdom ended long ago.

    One person the Boers won't run into is Anatoly Karlin, who claims to live in Russia but we know that's not true.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @iffen, @songbird, @Rattus Norwegius, @RadicalCenter

    SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened.

    Then we will see the economic miracle of Zimbabwe re-created.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    @iffen


    Then we will see the economic miracle of Zimbabwe re-created.
     
    Like the economic miracle after the czarist era in Russia? How many millions died of famine? With revolution comes a period of transition and dislocation, but it doesn't last forever. Unfortunately, the revolution in South Africa was stillborn. But the sooner the Boer dead-enders depart the sooner they can go about the business of building their nation.

    I do have grave reservations about this news. Russia styles itself a serious country and no serious country is going to align itself with "white genocide" conspiracy theorists and propagandists. Besides, Russia's allies in South Africa won't take kindly to being accused of genocide and Russia also styles itself as a champion of diplomacy. It won't throw one of its few allies under the bus.

    Replies: @iffen, @Philip Owen

  78. Three Brooklyn Democrats: Sam Seder, Michael Brooks and Virgil Texas talk about how stupid and/or shameful White fears of demographic replacement is. They talk about Pat Buchanan, Zulus, White farmers in South Africa and the use of their plight to rally the alt-right.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Cagey Beast

    What any Jew, but perhaps most of all what any Brooklyn Jew, has to say on immigration and White politics could not be more irrelevant.

    When Flatbush Haredi start renting to, selling to, and integrating with the surrounding Blacks then Jews will have taken the first of dozens of necessary steps to making anything that they say on these topics relevant. There are no monolithically "whiter" and ethnically exclusive neighborhoods in the USA, with similar or greater population density, than Brooklyn Jewish neighborhoods.

    If they make resistance against Black appropriation of Boer land an "alt-Right" issue, then that would make resistance against Palestinian appropriation of Israeli land an "alt-Left" issue that is equally worthy of dismissal. If they justify Jewish occupation on what the book that they wrote says in regard to prior ownership, then that leaves the door open for Western European non-Jews to take Anatolia, Iran, and North Africa for themselves. All morality being equally applied (protip: Jews also want this land for themselves).

    They key to all of this, of course, is that Jews seek to apply a double moral standard in relation to themselves and non-Jews. Which, again, makes anything that they say utterly irrelevant.

  79. @Dmitry
    UK, Australia and Canada, successfully receive hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants, with the majority each year flowing to UK and Canada.

    Mostly these are skilled immigrants. South Africa itself has many important scientists and intellectuals (with famous universities before the 1990s), and emigrated to UK, Australia, Canada and the US, during the 1990s, when crime and social disorder rose in their native country, but continuing emigration occurring in recent years.

    This immigration can be of obvious economic benefit for the receiving countries, due to the demographics of the immigrants.

    For Stavropol, which has high poverty, to attract them (beyond these ones visiting for a holiday), will
    probably require absorption benefits and some kind of real plan from the authorities.

    GDP per capita in South Africa is significantly below Russia, although a little recovered since the 1990s - so there is still a possibility to receive such "Boer immigration", but there would need to be real incentives and with multi-year plan .

    Particularly some kind of bonus to incentivize them to live in Russia, and not leave after a year (something like a free apartment if they are successfully staying in the country 5 years later).

    Replies: @DFH, @Anarcho-Supremacist, @Anarcho-Supremacist, @Rattus Norwegius, @Jeff Stryker

    UK, Australia and Canada, successfully receive hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants, with the majority each year flowing to UK and Canada.

    About half of my primary school teachers were South African, both Boer and Anglo

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @DFH

    The Boers should avoid formerly-Great formerly-Britain if they don't want to submit to Islam as dhimmis or worse within two generations.

    As an American, I say "come on over, guys, we want you and need you here."

  80. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Hyperborean

    You are correct.

    Russian citizens can acquire foreign citizenships with abandon (though this precludes them from certain careers in the state sector).

    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

    PS. This is of course a very stupid law that needs to be abolished ASAP. Qualified foreigners w/out a criminal record who have some level of proficiency with Russian should be allowed to become citizens. I believe that Russia should also sell citizenships, like most of the civilized world does. I would love for Russia to become a refuge for and benefit from Western crooks. They will be portrayed as victims of Western human rights abuses, just like their Russian counterparts gallivanting around London. Shkreli did nothing wrong!

    Replies: @iffen, @utu, @Jon0815, @Anarcho-Supremacist

    This is of course a very stupid law

    No, you do not want to have people with multiple citizenships. If Austrians and Finns do not want to give up their original citizenships it just means they are not a good material to be Russian citizens.

    A third in-between possibility should be offered: a permanent resident visa that could be revoked upon (1) conviction in criminal trial and (2) engaging in activities intended to hurt Russia’s national interest.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @utu


    If Austrians and Finns do not want to give up their original citizenships it just means they are not a good material to be Russian citizens.
     
    I agree, Tajiks are much better material.

    Replies: @utu

  81. @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    Currently UK, Australia and Canada have heavily benefited from Boer emigration
     
    Are the South Africans emigrating to Anglosphere countries really Boers? Ok, there are a few famous ones (iirc J.M.Coetzee who wrote that depressing Disgrace novel now lives in Australia), but I'd suppose the emigrants would be disproportionately of Anglo background (who are probably more likely to still have family ties outside South Africa than the Boers who have lived there for centuries).

    So far, it’s just some publicity (hype) in the media.
     
    I didn't wonder why Russia is willing to accept Boer immigrants (though that's an interesting question as well), but why this Vesti news service would use terms like "white genocide". It seems pretty high-risk for a state-owned news service to do that and might well be used in Western propaganda against Russia.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH

    Are the South Africans emigrating to Anglosphere countries really Boers?

    They are disproportionately Anglo, but there are still many Afrikaners living in London. Also lots of Jews from South Africa.

  82. @utu
    @Anatoly Karlin


    This is of course a very stupid law
     
    No, you do not want to have people with multiple citizenships. If Austrians and Finns do not want to give up their original citizenships it just means they are not a good material to be Russian citizens.

    A third in-between possibility should be offered: a permanent resident visa that could be revoked upon (1) conviction in criminal trial and (2) engaging in activities intended to hurt Russia's national interest.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    If Austrians and Finns do not want to give up their original citizenships it just means they are not a good material to be Russian citizens.

    I agree, Tajiks are much better material.

    • Replies: @utu
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Do not change the subject. How many passports do you have? Are you a good material to be a citizen of Russia or America or whatever? You want to be the citizen of the world, right? You do not like borders for yourself but like to advocate them for others? On which passport did you travel to Portugal, Belgium, Rumania...?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

  83. @iffen
    @Okechukwu

    SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened.


    Then we will see the economic miracle of Zimbabwe re-created.

    Replies: @Okechukwu

    Then we will see the economic miracle of Zimbabwe re-created.

    Like the economic miracle after the czarist era in Russia? How many millions died of famine? With revolution comes a period of transition and dislocation, but it doesn’t last forever. Unfortunately, the revolution in South Africa was stillborn. But the sooner the Boer dead-enders depart the sooner they can go about the business of building their nation.

    I do have grave reservations about this news. Russia styles itself a serious country and no serious country is going to align itself with “white genocide” conspiracy theorists and propagandists. Besides, Russia’s allies in South Africa won’t take kindly to being accused of genocide and Russia also styles itself as a champion of diplomacy. It won’t throw one of its few allies under the bus.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Okechukwu

    but it doesn’t last forever.

    RE: Zimbabwe

    How many years do you think it will take?

    , @Philip Owen
    @Okechukwu

    White Genocide is a very strong idea in Russia, except that they call it Russian genocide and add socialism to the list of enemies. 10's and 10's of millions of Russians did die in the 20th C and they look for someone to blame but they also borrow the vocabulary and ideology from the US Far Right.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Okechukwu

  84. @Philip Owen
    In 2013, an Afrikaner preacher asked me to look into resettlement in Russia. He travelled all over the Transvaal preaching so had a large congregation.

    I looked at the project for them. Foolishly I disclosed my research unlike these cynical sharks. Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit. This is not suitable if you wish to hand on your farm to future generations. Show me a farmer that doesn't. Just now, the Afrikaners want a place to put their second sons. They want to hold on to RSA citizenship. That said, they are happy to go to Australia and Argentina. Russia is too alien.

    Georgia has previously hosted such a delegation.

    The southern Black Earth is very suitable for them. They are good at dry land farming which is needed in semi-desert like Volgograd.

    Someone is ripping them off by bringing them to Russia without going through the legal issues (or I am stupid not to gouge my clients, also probably true).

    In Georgia, the land is different. It is not suitable for Veldt farming.

    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years. Asian firms are prominent in this, indeed so much so, one questions just how much incentive they have been offered, especially in dairy.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Daniel Chieh, @Dmitry, @notanon

    Interesting comment


    .
    Yes currently , story is simply that one South African delegation went on vacation to visit around Stavropol, in which they said they were interested in becoming farmers in the area (and according to different articles, mentioned, this delegation said 20 families or 30 families could be interested).

    In other words, no actual story yet, beyond a repeat kind of event as in your own story.

    But the journalists find it interesting for national news this time. Perhaps the latter fact, results that the authorities will be motivated to give them some kind of better deal, that incentivizes them to actually come this time.

  85. @Okechukwu
    Great news if true (but I suspect it's not). SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened. Apartheid ended but they still control most of the land and economy. Let Russia worry about them and good luck to Russia. Soon they'll be demanding an independent Boer republic and special language and cultural privileges. And they'll need serfs but serfdom ended long ago.

    One person the Boers won't run into is Anatoly Karlin, who claims to live in Russia but we know that's not true.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @iffen, @songbird, @Rattus Norwegius, @RadicalCenter

    When Nigeria’s economy outpaces yours, you know your country is fracked. Even if Nigeria has Indian-tier per capita, and is on its own spectacular, post-apocalyptic implosion course.

    But the real question is, when will the Bantu go home? Lagos only needs a few more million to reach 100 million by 2100. Of course, I’m talking about just one city. The more proper scale for the country is 1 billion. And any of them could be the next Einstein. It will be such a vibrant, space-faring, next “China of Africa” place. You should return, Oakie, so your grandchildren don’t miss out on being part of the great Nigerian superpower that will be.

  86. @Anatoly Karlin
    @utu


    If Austrians and Finns do not want to give up their original citizenships it just means they are not a good material to be Russian citizens.
     
    I agree, Tajiks are much better material.

    Replies: @utu

    Do not change the subject. How many passports do you have? Are you a good material to be a citizen of Russia or America or whatever? You want to be the citizen of the world, right? You do not like borders for yourself but like to advocate them for others? On which passport did you travel to Portugal, Belgium, Rumania…?

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @utu

    So far as I know you're not a family member, nor a close friend, nor somebody who has done me some great favor, nor even a contributor to my financial accounts, to demand answers to such questions.

    Replies: @utu

  87. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Hyperborean

    You are correct.

    Russian citizens can acquire foreign citizenships with abandon (though this precludes them from certain careers in the state sector).

    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

    PS. This is of course a very stupid law that needs to be abolished ASAP. Qualified foreigners w/out a criminal record who have some level of proficiency with Russian should be allowed to become citizens. I believe that Russia should also sell citizenships, like most of the civilized world does. I would love for Russia to become a refuge for and benefit from Western crooks. They will be portrayed as victims of Western human rights abuses, just like their Russian counterparts gallivanting around London. Shkreli did nothing wrong!

    Replies: @iffen, @utu, @Jon0815, @Anarcho-Supremacist

    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.

    Unless you are Steven Seagal. Presumably they made an exception for him.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

    I plan on immigrating to Russia myself someday, and would prefer to do so as a citizen rather than legal permanent resident (how hard is it to obtain the Russian equivalent of a green card?), but not if it means giving up US citizenship.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Jon0815

    I don't see the appeal of Steven Seagal. I'm not sure he ever made a good movie either.

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Jon0815


    ... and would prefer to do so as a citizen rather than legal permanent resident (how hard is it to obtain the Russian equivalent of a green card?)
     
    Getting permanent residency is pretty easy in Russia. It gives you many of the benefits of citizenship and, in practice, this is what most of the long-term expats I know here opt for.

    Unfortunately there is no obvious way to get a Russian citizenship without losing US citizenship, which is something that most people would not want to do. The Finn in question mounted a serious investigation about how to do it, but unfortunately to no avail. Giving up Finnish citizenship would mean difficulties in visiting Finland, where he still has an ageing (and increasingly sick) mother. In utu's world, he would have to risk cutting his access to her to demonstrate that he is "good material" for Russian citizenship.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Anonymous
    @Jon0815


    Unless you are Steven Seagal. Presumably they made an exception for him.
     
    I thought he got Serbian citizenship? Are you thinking of Putin's mate the fat french bloke?
  88. @utu
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Do not change the subject. How many passports do you have? Are you a good material to be a citizen of Russia or America or whatever? You want to be the citizen of the world, right? You do not like borders for yourself but like to advocate them for others? On which passport did you travel to Portugal, Belgium, Rumania...?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    So far as I know you’re not a family member, nor a close friend, nor somebody who has done me some great favor, nor even a contributor to my financial accounts, to demand answers to such questions.

    • Replies: @utu
    @Anatoly Karlin

    demand answers - No, these were rhetorical questions. I am making point not asking questions. Listen, I just pointed out that your idea of letting people keep 2nd citizenships was not sound. To which you misdirected with Tajiks BS perfectly knowing you were not addressing the issue. So I had to bring the issue of citizenship back to the center and making it a personal issue for you was the best way. You reacted predictably, i.e., very defensively like a kid with hand in the cookie jar or the jar with passports.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Dmitry

  89. @Jon0815
    @Anatoly Karlin


    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.
     
    Unless you are Steven Seagal. Presumably they made an exception for him.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.
     
    I plan on immigrating to Russia myself someday, and would prefer to do so as a citizen rather than legal permanent resident (how hard is it to obtain the Russian equivalent of a green card?), but not if it means giving up US citizenship.

    Replies: @songbird, @Anatoly Karlin, @Anonymous

    I don’t see the appeal of Steven Seagal. I’m not sure he ever made a good movie either.

  90. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dmitry

    It claims to be:


    This is the official channel of the main TV news channels of the largest media holding in Russia, the state-owned VGRTK.
     
    Though yes, it certainly doesn't look official. Probably something semi-official. (Translating all this stuff isn't an entirely trivial undertaking. And if it's unsanctioned, the channels in question would find it easy to take it down).

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Anonymous

    Yes it looks like some kind of officially funded project (to build this English youtube channel), but the German Reader was laughing about the controversial tabloid style title added to the upload.

    I was saying that the title is written by the person uploading the videos, which is a social media manager, who is aiming to write something dramatic or controversial to get otherwise uninterested Western audiences to click on it. (Job performance of social media manager is based on whether you receive clicks: if the video receives 100,000 views, he’s doing a good job – if it gets only 20 views, time to find a new social media people).

    Editorial intention of the report itself (which is not made for foreigners to watch), is not to talk about a genocide in the government’s important BRICS ally South Africa – but rather to boast about the fact that even these developed, white people are wanting to come to live in Russia.

  91. @Okechukwu
    @iffen


    Then we will see the economic miracle of Zimbabwe re-created.
     
    Like the economic miracle after the czarist era in Russia? How many millions died of famine? With revolution comes a period of transition and dislocation, but it doesn't last forever. Unfortunately, the revolution in South Africa was stillborn. But the sooner the Boer dead-enders depart the sooner they can go about the business of building their nation.

    I do have grave reservations about this news. Russia styles itself a serious country and no serious country is going to align itself with "white genocide" conspiracy theorists and propagandists. Besides, Russia's allies in South Africa won't take kindly to being accused of genocide and Russia also styles itself as a champion of diplomacy. It won't throw one of its few allies under the bus.

    Replies: @iffen, @Philip Owen

    but it doesn’t last forever.

    RE: Zimbabwe

    How many years do you think it will take?

  92. @Anatoly Karlin
    @utu

    So far as I know you're not a family member, nor a close friend, nor somebody who has done me some great favor, nor even a contributor to my financial accounts, to demand answers to such questions.

    Replies: @utu

    demand answers – No, these were rhetorical questions. I am making point not asking questions. Listen, I just pointed out that your idea of letting people keep 2nd citizenships was not sound. To which you misdirected with Tajiks BS perfectly knowing you were not addressing the issue. So I had to bring the issue of citizenship back to the center and making it a personal issue for you was the best way. You reacted predictably, i.e., very defensively like a kid with hand in the cookie jar or the jar with passports.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @utu

    Pointing out that this system:

    1. Makes it relatively easy for low-skilled, non-Russian fluent Tajiks to get Russian citizenship, who as part of Eurasec don't even have to give up their original citizenship;

    2. Makes it all but impossible for skilled, Russian fluent Europeans and Americans to get Russian citizenship without giving up their original, much more valuable citizenships;

    ... is perfectly relevant.

    Replies: @utu

    , @Dmitry
    @utu

    Even if he had a jar of passports , it is not personally relevant to his case.

    The government is very relaxed and allows you to have as many foreign citizenships (in addition to Russian one) as you want. Russia allows you to be not just dual citizen, but even triple citizen, or quadruple citizen (if you have some kind of passport fetish).

    The issue is that if foreigners (people with neither Russian citizen parents or birth) want to become Russian citizens, should they not give away their foreign citizenship?

    I guess Karlin thinks this is asymmetric (since Russian citizens from birth, often have other citizenships at the same time).

    I would disagree, and say is sensible policy to make people who want to naturalize lose their original citizenship, so it attracts only committed foreigners to do a naturalization process.

    Foreigners that want to live in Russia, can be residents, without becoming citizens, and it's no different situation economically compared to if they were naturalized.

  93. @Jon0815
    @Anatoly Karlin


    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.
     
    Unless you are Steven Seagal. Presumably they made an exception for him.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.
     
    I plan on immigrating to Russia myself someday, and would prefer to do so as a citizen rather than legal permanent resident (how hard is it to obtain the Russian equivalent of a green card?), but not if it means giving up US citizenship.

    Replies: @songbird, @Anatoly Karlin, @Anonymous

    … and would prefer to do so as a citizen rather than legal permanent resident (how hard is it to obtain the Russian equivalent of a green card?)

    Getting permanent residency is pretty easy in Russia. It gives you many of the benefits of citizenship and, in practice, this is what most of the long-term expats I know here opt for.

    Unfortunately there is no obvious way to get a Russian citizenship without losing US citizenship, which is something that most people would not want to do. The Finn in question mounted a serious investigation about how to do it, but unfortunately to no avail. Giving up Finnish citizenship would mean difficulties in visiting Finland, where he still has an ageing (and increasingly sick) mother. In utu’s world, he would have to risk cutting his access to her to demonstrate that he is “good material” for Russian citizenship.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Some countries allow renounced citizens to re-obtain citizenship. I recall the UK allows it once, meaning a UK citizen could renounce UK, add Russia, add UK, and become dual national.

    Theoretically!

    Replies: @Philip Owen

  94. @utu
    @Anatoly Karlin

    demand answers - No, these were rhetorical questions. I am making point not asking questions. Listen, I just pointed out that your idea of letting people keep 2nd citizenships was not sound. To which you misdirected with Tajiks BS perfectly knowing you were not addressing the issue. So I had to bring the issue of citizenship back to the center and making it a personal issue for you was the best way. You reacted predictably, i.e., very defensively like a kid with hand in the cookie jar or the jar with passports.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Dmitry

    Pointing out that this system:

    1. Makes it relatively easy for low-skilled, non-Russian fluent Tajiks to get Russian citizenship, who as part of Eurasec don’t even have to give up their original citizenship;

    2. Makes it all but impossible for skilled, Russian fluent Europeans and Americans to get Russian citizenship without giving up their original, much more valuable citizenships;

    … is perfectly relevant.

    • Replies: @utu
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Thanks. I can see it. I would prefer fixing (1) instead of relaxing (2). IMO, definitively fix (1) and provide easy way to get permanent (though conditional) resident status that would lead to citizenship (1) via naturalization upon renouncing the original citizenship and (2) in the 2nd generation already born in Russia.

  95. @Anatoly Karlin
    @utu

    Pointing out that this system:

    1. Makes it relatively easy for low-skilled, non-Russian fluent Tajiks to get Russian citizenship, who as part of Eurasec don't even have to give up their original citizenship;

    2. Makes it all but impossible for skilled, Russian fluent Europeans and Americans to get Russian citizenship without giving up their original, much more valuable citizenships;

    ... is perfectly relevant.

    Replies: @utu

    Thanks. I can see it. I would prefer fixing (1) instead of relaxing (2). IMO, definitively fix (1) and provide easy way to get permanent (though conditional) resident status that would lead to citizenship (1) via naturalization upon renouncing the original citizenship and (2) in the 2nd generation already born in Russia.

  96. @Marcus
    @Oprah Fan

    ZA is a really, rally dangerous place in general, and statistically whites are much less likely to be victimized than blacks. "White Genocide" dorks like hysterical (as usual)

    Replies: @Zhukov1945

    Derp just bc blacks kill a lot of blacks then the fact they kill less whites means concerned whites are dorks…gtfo.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @Zhukov1945

    No.... It means that trying to equate living in a violent country with being subject to genocide looks hysterical. Also it's a fool's errand to try to garner sympathy from the outside world, which will never forgive Afrikaners for apartheid. They need to either leave or try to carve out their own state.

    Replies: @notanon

  97. @iffen
    @Daniel Chieh

    How about alpacas? Is there any steppe left, or is all parking lots? Oh! Oh! Mink farms!

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Philip Owen, @Daniel Chieh

    Not too far from where I live, some guy has like eight alpacas or something in his ranch. They’re cute, though I can’t imagine they take the heat well. I suspect the demand for highly priced, locally sourced alpaca yarn for SWPL craft projects is unique to the US.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Daniel Chieh

    for SWPL craft projects is unique to the US.


    We truly live in an age like no other. I know of a gentleman farmer and wife that make and sell artisan cheese made from sheep milk. Apparently it sells per ounce as if it is gold.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  98. @utu
    @Anatoly Karlin

    demand answers - No, these were rhetorical questions. I am making point not asking questions. Listen, I just pointed out that your idea of letting people keep 2nd citizenships was not sound. To which you misdirected with Tajiks BS perfectly knowing you were not addressing the issue. So I had to bring the issue of citizenship back to the center and making it a personal issue for you was the best way. You reacted predictably, i.e., very defensively like a kid with hand in the cookie jar or the jar with passports.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Dmitry

    Even if he had a jar of passports , it is not personally relevant to his case.

    The government is very relaxed and allows you to have as many foreign citizenships (in addition to Russian one) as you want. Russia allows you to be not just dual citizen, but even triple citizen, or quadruple citizen (if you have some kind of passport fetish).

    The issue is that if foreigners (people with neither Russian citizen parents or birth) want to become Russian citizens, should they not give away their foreign citizenship?

    I guess Karlin thinks this is asymmetric (since Russian citizens from birth, often have other citizenships at the same time).

    I would disagree, and say is sensible policy to make people who want to naturalize lose their original citizenship, so it attracts only committed foreigners to do a naturalization process.

    Foreigners that want to live in Russia, can be residents, without becoming citizens, and it’s no different situation economically compared to if they were naturalized.

    • Agree: utu
  99. @Philip Owen
    @Daniel Chieh

    See @reiner Tor for mining.

    Kiwi needs a glass house. This is only possible with sanctions protection. Russian winters are severe and hydrocarbon prices are high. Even in the 1990's when they were low, soviet era glass houses went broke. The new ones are a huge waste of capital and will be out of business when counter sanctions end - originally scheduled for 2019. I am looking at Zambian tomatoes but a minimum of £15,000 to move a refridgerated container.

    Russia already has a strong artisan apiculture industry. There are some commercial farms in the Urals and around Lake Baikal and other places with a reputation for clean environment. Usually, honey is sold in covered markets local to production. That said, Mead is a popular drink in Russia rather on the scale, perhaps slightly less, of cider in England and Wales.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    I am looking at Zambian tomatoes but a minimum of £15,000 to move a refridgerated container.

    This seems insane. I assume the tomatoes are shipped unripened to prevent damage and later ripened with ethylene gas?

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Daniel Chieh

    It depends on the season. In high season (Russian Winter - the only time prices might take it) they are prepacked which greatly reduces damage. The supermarket buyers have strict rules about lifetime. They don't want to do any ripening which means that they must reach Russia at the right moment.

    Distributors will buy green and ripen but they will also try and cut me out.

  100. @reiner Tor
    @Daniel Chieh


    How do you mine farmland?
     
    The soil needs to be cultivated in a way which won’t deplete it completely. Monoculture (especially extreme monoculture) and some industrial farming methods result in very high yields... for a while. But after a while the soil gets depleted or completely washed away and it won’t be good for anything.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    I see. Thank you.

  101. @Hyperborean
    @Stan d Mute


    It’s FAR easier for the media to overlook a few thousand tortured, mutilated, and murdered farmers than to ignore the entire white population of South Africa exterminated like so many Tutsis.
     
    Except they are not being killed all at once like the Tutsis, rather they are being driven out through slowly increasing pressure (even the land confiscation decree was only passed recently despite years of agitation from the ilks of the Economic Freedom Fighters).

    Why do you think anybody would listen to the Boers after they’ve reached safety in Russia? Who, besides us deplorables, is listening now? Who listened when whites were slaughtered and chased out of Rhodesia (or any other post-colonial white outpost of civilization)?
     
    Although it is kind of anecdotal, the first time I heard of the ethnic cleansing of Russians* during the Tajik civil war was from reading stories of refugees who had ended up in America.

    At the very least there might be increased awareness among the Russian populace of the Boers' situation.

    And even if there isn't, at least they might form a reliable bloc similar the way the Algerian pied-noirs became a loyal Front National bloc in the South of France after they were ethnically cleansed by the Arabs.

    *Although I don't think any of the Tajik factions were explicitly targeting Russians, the effect was the same.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute

    IF I believed it were possible that the lesson may be learned (and learned well) with an exodus of white South Africans, I’d agree with you. But I guess I’m more pessimistic (and perhaps thus more realist). I’m not even sure the Boers themselves have learned the lesson.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Stan d Mute

    Boers are not "based" in my experience, but I also question how realistic the 4chan expectations are. They are just people trying to survive; they tend to be extremely cynical if there is any specific personality trait I would associate with them, often perceiving the entire world as having betrayed them, including their own elite.

    Time in Africa seems to have impacted their character: in the positive, to be fairly daring and having a specific appreciation for the moment and the present. In the negative, for becoming more comfortable with corruption and dysfunction(esp. homocide) in society.

    They were fond of Russian criminal organizations in SA, which I can understand as those are at least more reliable than the chaos elsewhere; hopefully this does not extend within the borders of Russia, though.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @songbird

  102. Remove Boers!
    Remove Anglos!
    Remove Guptas!
    Remove Bantus!

    South-Africa belongs to the Khoisan!

  103. @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    Vesti appears to be a VGTRK project, whose deputy director is Dmitry Kiselev.

    He's preddy based:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwLvPR2KedI

    He was also the guy who said that Russia can turn the US into nuclear ash. Very high energy fellow.

    He's also in charge of Sputnik, which is more "conspiratorial" and tbh lower quality than RT.

    RT is a separate media arm (though one that belongs to the same holding company as Sputnik), has more yuppie Anglophone types, and is more directly aimed at the foreign left/liberal audience. They were angry at Russia Insider after Charles Bausman's article on the Jews (which was reprinted on this website), but I have heard on the grapevine that it was the people around Kiselev who calmed things down.

    Also RT actually blacklists people for racism and anti-Semitism, and I'm not talking hardcore Daily Stormer types (catch the hint?). Sputnik doesn't do that AFAIK.

    Anyway, my point is... it's probably inaccurate to talk of a unitary "Kremlin" media strategy.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Yevardian

    Perhaps its just me, but the woman in the thumbnail has a strong resemblance to you.

  104. Wow – impressive! About time.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @Talha

    Ha! I missed this the first time...


    North Caucasus republics
     
    Good, maybe they can get toughened up by the Caucasians and go back to SA and defend their farms. Maybe make the connections and hire some Chechen mercenaries too.

    Thumbs up!

    Peace.
  105. @iffen
    @Mr. Hack

    plenty of hard working Ukrainians tilling the Russia soil too.


    Looks like Ukrainians will be replaced by Boers. That's what you get for being so recalcitrant and unreliable.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Ukrainains are by nature hard working survivors no matter where you find them, If I were you, I wouldn’t worry too much for their well being.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    @Mr. Hack

    lol Ukrainians are lousy workers: entitled, lazy, shirking their duties, stealing everything that's not nailed down. Arguably the worst work ethic on the planet, on par with Sub-Sahara Africa. And a corresponding level of GDP. ;)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP, @Hyperborean, @Truth

    , @anonymous coward
    @Mr. Hack

    You wouldn't know a Ukrainian if one bit you in the ass, you stupid clown.

    (Ukrainians are many things, but definitely not "hard-working". Wily and crafty, rather.)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @iffen
    @Mr. Hack

    I wouldn’t worry too much for their well being.

    1) Unless I am misinformed they are sitting on some of the best agricultural land in the world and I worry about the fate of this land whether it is in my state, my country or some other nation.

    2) Ukrainians, like Europeans in general, keep dragging Uncle Sam into their disputes and I would like to stay out of some of them.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  106. @Dmitry
    @Felix Keverich

    Probably you are correct, about the ones who be interested to come. Farmers? But maybe they're successful farmers (South Africa was historically known for farming achievements).

    In general, South African immigrants have a reputation around the world as a kind of elite immigration strata.

    Recall, South Africa was a country which developed nuclear weapons, won Nobel prizes in science, had elite universities, a food surplus, and a successful economy, but as a result of the chaotic political and crime situation in the 1990s, its best demographics want to emigrate.

    I was reading a article recently about the UK, has a shortage of computer science graduates, and as a result it is now receiving thousands of computer scientists from South Africa.

    -

    Australia is importing them to boost its economy.

    Articles like:


    Calling South African engineers: Australia wants you

    If you’ve ever thought about moving to Australia, you need to know that the land down under is desperate for South African engineers.
     
    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/calling-south-african-engineers-australia-wants-you/

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @Marcus

    Good for them, I say we should let somebody else pick up this “prize”. Diversity is always universally a bad thing even if it comes in the form of conservative white Protestants. Culturally alien minorities are TROUBLE.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Felix Keverich


    Culturally alien minorities are TROUBLE.
     
    i think this is generally true even if the minority in question has net positive qualities hence why i feel it's better done if done in specific under populated regions.
    , @Dmitry
    @Felix Keverich

    Perhaps, you are right.

    To the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada - they arrive mainly as skilled professionals, and do not keep separate from the main population.

    Cultural distance with those countries probably low already? (English was an official language of South African until 1925).

    It raises level of human capital in those countries (around 1% of the total UK population are South African immigrants) without adding visibly an separate community to the countries.

  107. @Beckow
    Wait until they find out about the 'propiska' process, they might not come :)...

    If it works, it would be good for everyone. EU might get better handle on communicating with Russia with a small population of sober, hard working, Dutch speaking farmers there.

    I suspect Western media would ignore it completely until some disillusioned Boers (propiska?) decide to leave, and then they would pounce.

    Replies: @Latsa

    Propiska is not a problem if you have the money to buy and if you live in the place where you have the propiska, which will be their case obviously?

  108. @Mr. Hack
    @iffen

    Ukrainains are by nature hard working survivors no matter where you find them, If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much for their well being.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @anonymous coward, @iffen

    lol Ukrainians are lousy workers: entitled, lazy, shirking their duties, stealing everything that’s not nailed down. Arguably the worst work ethic on the planet, on par with Sub-Sahara Africa. And a corresponding level of GDP. 😉

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Felix Keverich


    stealing everything that’s not nailed down.
     
    Don't make me laugh, you clown! It was Russia that rode into Ukraine in 2014 and annexed (stole) the Crimea from Ukraine, and is still trying to rip off the Donbas too, for which the industrialized part of the world has penalized Russia by slapping on sanctions which are still in place today, Bozo! Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world's security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @AP, @annamaria

    , @AP
    @Felix Keverich


    Ukrainians are lousy workers: entitled, lazy, shirking their duties, stealing everything that’s not nailed down. Arguably the worst work ethic on the planet
     
    LOL, that must be why people in Russia who can afford not to deal with Central Asians use Ukrainians to remont their properties.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    , @Hyperborean
    @Felix Keverich

    I haven't met any Ukrainians but I doubt their work ethics are much different from Russians, Byelorussians or Lithuanians.

    I think the Ukraine's post-Soviet economic problems are due to oligarchs there not figuring out that a lifetime's supply of eggs are more valuable than one chicken dinner.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich

    , @Truth
    @Felix Keverich

    Hey, Lomachenko and Usyk are kinda cool.

  109. It would not surprise me if the Kremlin bureaucrats were doing this just to troll the Western NGO types. I think one reason they did the “anti-gay” laws was to trigger the western “human rights” leaders.

  110. @Dmitry
    UK, Australia and Canada, successfully receive hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants, with the majority each year flowing to UK and Canada.

    Mostly these are skilled immigrants. South Africa itself has many important scientists and intellectuals (with famous universities before the 1990s), and emigrated to UK, Australia, Canada and the US, during the 1990s, when crime and social disorder rose in their native country, but continuing emigration occurring in recent years.

    This immigration can be of obvious economic benefit for the receiving countries, due to the demographics of the immigrants.

    For Stavropol, which has high poverty, to attract them (beyond these ones visiting for a holiday), will
    probably require absorption benefits and some kind of real plan from the authorities.

    GDP per capita in South Africa is significantly below Russia, although a little recovered since the 1990s - so there is still a possibility to receive such "Boer immigration", but there would need to be real incentives and with multi-year plan .

    Particularly some kind of bonus to incentivize them to live in Russia, and not leave after a year (something like a free apartment if they are successfully staying in the country 5 years later).

    Replies: @DFH, @Anarcho-Supremacist, @Anarcho-Supremacist, @Rattus Norwegius, @Jeff Stryker

    One reason they leave is because South African “Affirmative Action” laws make it all but impossible for them to work. The AA laws are basically racial quotas and I shit you not sometime they have to get immigrants to fill the slots because using whites would violate the law.

  111. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Hyperborean

    You are correct.

    Russian citizens can acquire foreign citizenships with abandon (though this precludes them from certain careers in the state sector).

    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

    PS. This is of course a very stupid law that needs to be abolished ASAP. Qualified foreigners w/out a criminal record who have some level of proficiency with Russian should be allowed to become citizens. I believe that Russia should also sell citizenships, like most of the civilized world does. I would love for Russia to become a refuge for and benefit from Western crooks. They will be portrayed as victims of Western human rights abuses, just like their Russian counterparts gallivanting around London. Shkreli did nothing wrong!

    Replies: @iffen, @utu, @Jon0815, @Anarcho-Supremacist

    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.

    Does that apply if you are “given” citizenship from the president like Gérard Depardieu and few others were?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @Anarcho-Supremacist

    No, they can keep their old one.
    Like this guy.

    https://global.handelsblatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Stefan-Duerr-PR.jpg

  112. “Weird protestant sect”

    The Dutch Reformed church is, besides the Mormon church, the only Christian denomination which manages to inspire whites to plus above TFR2.0. Even in the Netherlands(!). They’re replacing the liberals, albeit slowly. (And they tend to be pro-Russian for cultural reasons)

    So, weird. Maybe. But it will grow for sure.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4875064/

  113. @Stan d Mute
    @Mitleser


    Otherwise, North America would still have a large population of Native Americans.
     
    Maybe, but they’d be on reservations anyway if they hadn’t succumbed to disease and weren’t slaughtered in war. Our Founders weren’t squeamish about calling a savage a “savage” and had firsthand experience with them. From our Declaration of Independence and cut/pasted from Takimag’s Jim Goad article on the subject:

    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
     
    http://takimag.com/article/those_poor_helpless_indian_savages_jim_goad

    Replies: @anonymous coward

    Maybe, but they’d be on reservations anyway if they hadn’t succumbed to disease and weren’t slaughtered in war.

    I don’t believe it. Without the apocalyptic plagues, American Indians would quickly take up Western government practices, Western technology and Western religion. History shows that Indians were some of the quickest people to assimilate Western culture. (Unlike Africans.) Also, they’d definitely be Roman Catholic, not Protestant. Also, there would be a lot of them — Western civilization + American food = population growth.

    A modern USA that is 50% Roman Catholic Native is an interesting alternative history timeline to explore.

    I’d guess the blacks would be shipped back to Africa in that timeline, though. Can’t imagine the native constituency tolerating an African underclass.

    I’d also imagine lots more ‘state rights’ in that timeline — even with a unified USA, the natives would probably want to leave more room for remnants of tribal traditions.

    All in all, probably a better timeline than this one.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @anonymous coward

    It is a shame Spain got so much of the Americas. I think the Latin American region would be more interesting culturally today if countries like France and the Netherlands had left a larger cultural legacy there.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @songbird

    , @Philip Owen
    @anonymous coward

    Until Andrew Jackson dispossessed them by altering the law to take them from owners of their land to occupiers, the 5 civilized tribes, particularly the Cherokee were more or less indistinguishable from other slave owning plantation owners. They were largely Protestant so far as I recall. Lots of Scottish influence.

    , @Truth
    @anonymous coward


    History shows that Indians were some of the quickest people to assimilate Western culture.
     
    You've never been to a reservation west of the Mississippi.
  114. @Mr. Hack
    @iffen

    Ukrainains are by nature hard working survivors no matter where you find them, If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much for their well being.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @anonymous coward, @iffen

    You wouldn’t know a Ukrainian if one bit you in the ass, you stupid clown.

    (Ukrainians are many things, but definitely not “hard-working”. Wily and crafty, rather.)

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @anonymous coward

    Both of my parents were Ukrainians, therefore, I had plenty of opportunity to observe their work ethic firsthand. Many of my neighbors and friends in the community that I lived in were Ukrainians too, professional people, businessmen, and responsible workers of the factories of a bygone era.

    So I'm wondering, exactly what ethnic group spawned a useless fabricator of lies and unsubstantiated malicious characterizations? If' I were you, I'd go back and slide beneath the rock that you came from!

    Replies: @AP, @anonymous coward

  115. @songbird
    @Hyperborean

    Certain professions attract people with certain psychological predilections. Actors tend to be leftwing, and so Hollywood is leftwing. It is more leftwing than just the sum of its parts, since the group ostracizes, but I still consider it organically leftwing, or put another way, it is self-organizing.

    News is quite similar, IMO. There is a natural bias in the political orientation of people wanting to be in the media. For example: let's say it is 60:40. State news is another filter, making it 80:20. The difference comes partly from the esteem the state is held in. State news is upheld as unbiased, since it is not commercial. I knew a guy who wore a Che T-shirt who praised the BBC, while ridiculing other news for their biases.

    I'd suggest there is parallel between them both: they are professions that seek audiences, and anything that does is likely to have a leftward bias. Regarding the news, the best test of whether it is true is simple observation. I can't think of a single rightward state-news outlet.

    My theory about leftism: at base it is mainly hereditary. Think of it as being highly polygenic, like height or intelligence. Only, it differs greatly from those traits because it is more about interpersonal psychology, and so can manifest itself in radically different ways, depending on the environment or culture.

    It is an evolved group-based power-dynamic survival strategy. It evolved to harness greater numbers as a force multiplier, against the individual or against smaller groups. Mostly to redistribute resources.

    Leftists readily galvanize before a leader or the state - it is about organizing the group.
    They signal each other in countless ways - organizing the group.
    Tend to be more verbal - organizing the group.
    They tend towards xenophilia and loose sexuality - growing the group.
    They tend to impulsivity - necessary for group action.


    The problem as I see it is that the strategy wasn't evolved to operate in the modern world. Xenopihilia in the old days might have meant accepting in the members of some defeated clan that had been dispossessed of their hereditary land in a nearby province, if you could feed them. There were a lot of natural checks and balances that have been removed. Somalis on jetplanes fed by taxes aren't the same as a the remnants of some decimated clan of one's countrymen making a deadly, two-hundred mile trek through snow and freezing temperatures, and you needing to have a surplus in order to accept them.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @ThreeCranes

    [T]hey are professions that seek audiences, and anything that does is likely to have a leftward bias.

    What about UK tabloids? Along with the mindless celebrity gossip and clickbait headlines some of them (e.g. the Daily Mail) don’t mind showing pictures of Africans flooding European beaches and complaining about ‘Romanians’ if it gets them views.

    For example: let’s say it is 60:40. State news is another filter, making it 80:20.

    While Anglosphere and Western European state media is comfortablely Liberal, there are well-known Liberal private newspapers and TV stations that are even more Liberal e.g. The Guardian is usually far more Liberal than the relatively anodyne and pernicious BBC.

    Of course the journalists who work at state media may hold more radical Liberal views than what they present on the programmes.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Hyperborean

    And yet, during the referendum, the Chief Producer of BBC News led daily with stories that conflated Syrian refugees, illegal economic migrants from Asia and Africa crossing the Mediterranean to Greece and Italy, a camp of illegals at Calais and migration within Europe. These groups were all deliberately confused. Such news stopped on the day of the referendum. This clearly delivered the vote to Leave. Said Producer has since been sacked.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    , @songbird
    @Hyperborean


    Of course the journalists who work at state media may hold more radical Liberal views than what they present on the programmes.

     

    What I've seen is pretty bad. A German reporter coaching a jobless Afghani to call native Germans racists and blame his problems on them. A BBC reporter verbally sparring with a Hungarian politician and telling him they must take in anyone who comes to Hungary. On American Public TV, I once saw them present a series of gay, nude (but from an angle) S&M photos. I only saw one, but could tell it was a series from the dialogue. The image is still burned in my brain. If I were tasteless, I would describe it, for shock value. They thought it was art. That was in the 1990s. PBS, or its local affiliate. Another thing I remember is them calling the anti-busing advocates racists. meanwhile, the public radio programs in America make me think of Communism.

    I've come to the conclusion that state media inevitably becomes evil. Granted, in WW2 the BBC hosted a bunch of talks by CS Lewis on Christianity, I think it is just about absolutely true in a diverse society created from a white Christian substrate. Russia being a kind of federation might be said to be such a place, but it could be that technology and easy living is the real catalyst.

    Another kind of weird thing is their insistence on tax money. In the US, all the main productions are paid for by foundations or corporate sponsors. That's even before donations. I know distribution costs something, as well as local programing and studios, but they should really just upload everything to Youtube. The Anglosphere is pretty gigantic, I don't see the need for any tax-financed programming.

    The Guardian is certainly more leftist than the BBC. Probably mainly derives from a legacy of directives, which is another factor in the mix. Also, a weakness of state news. It's banner has condescending nannyism written all over it. But I think it isn't as naturally evil, since it doesn't have the same footprint, or number of employees. There's something just weird about state media, how so many try to maintain a global footprint. And in places like Africa or Arab countries.

    I'm not quite sure how to classify the British tabloids. Showing a machete-wielding Nigerian attacking a car in London is just a good attention-grabbing image. I think they are otherwise perhaps center-left. I recall some story on two mulatto sisters, one of whom due to gene shuffle looked white.
  116. @anonymous coward
    @Stan d Mute


    Maybe, but they’d be on reservations anyway if they hadn’t succumbed to disease and weren’t slaughtered in war.
     
    I don't believe it. Without the apocalyptic plagues, American Indians would quickly take up Western government practices, Western technology and Western religion. History shows that Indians were some of the quickest people to assimilate Western culture. (Unlike Africans.) Also, they'd definitely be Roman Catholic, not Protestant. Also, there would be a lot of them -- Western civilization + American food = population growth.

    A modern USA that is 50% Roman Catholic Native is an interesting alternative history timeline to explore.

    I'd guess the blacks would be shipped back to Africa in that timeline, though. Can't imagine the native constituency tolerating an African underclass.

    I'd also imagine lots more 'state rights' in that timeline -- even with a unified USA, the natives would probably want to leave more room for remnants of tribal traditions.

    All in all, probably a better timeline than this one.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Philip Owen, @Truth

    It is a shame Spain got so much of the Americas. I think the Latin American region would be more interesting culturally today if countries like France and the Netherlands had left a larger cultural legacy there.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    @Hyperborean

    You think France or Netherlands would have genocided the natives in a more thorough manner?

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    , @songbird
    @Hyperborean

    It's curious that France has maintained it's link.

    A pity some of these uninhabited islands like Reunion were not settled entirely by whites. It would have been interesting to have more geographic isolates.

    I wonder what Haiti would be like, without French radio. I've heard that's how they refine their French.

  117. @Hyperborean
    @anonymous coward

    It is a shame Spain got so much of the Americas. I think the Latin American region would be more interesting culturally today if countries like France and the Netherlands had left a larger cultural legacy there.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @songbird

    You think France or Netherlands would have genocided the natives in a more thorough manner?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Felix Keverich

    I think the imposition of European culture by colonial governors and settlement from Europe by the French or Dutch would have had the same cultural effect eventually.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich

  118. @Felix Keverich
    @Hyperborean

    You think France or Netherlands would have genocided the natives in a more thorough manner?

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    I think the imposition of European culture by colonial governors and settlement from Europe by the French or Dutch would have had the same cultural effect eventually.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    @Hyperborean

    Doubtful. Remember what the French did to Haiti? Basically, for your vision to materialise French colonial authorities would have to stop acting like French.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

  119. @Dmitry
    UK, Australia and Canada, successfully receive hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants, with the majority each year flowing to UK and Canada.

    Mostly these are skilled immigrants. South Africa itself has many important scientists and intellectuals (with famous universities before the 1990s), and emigrated to UK, Australia, Canada and the US, during the 1990s, when crime and social disorder rose in their native country, but continuing emigration occurring in recent years.

    This immigration can be of obvious economic benefit for the receiving countries, due to the demographics of the immigrants.

    For Stavropol, which has high poverty, to attract them (beyond these ones visiting for a holiday), will
    probably require absorption benefits and some kind of real plan from the authorities.

    GDP per capita in South Africa is significantly below Russia, although a little recovered since the 1990s - so there is still a possibility to receive such "Boer immigration", but there would need to be real incentives and with multi-year plan .

    Particularly some kind of bonus to incentivize them to live in Russia, and not leave after a year (something like a free apartment if they are successfully staying in the country 5 years later).

    Replies: @DFH, @Anarcho-Supremacist, @Anarcho-Supremacist, @Rattus Norwegius, @Jeff Stryker

    GDP per capita in South Africa is significantly below Russia, although a little recovered since the 1990s – so there is still a possibility to receive such “Boer immigration”, but there would need to be real incentives and with multi-year plan .

    Particularly some kind of bonus to incentivize them to live in Russia, and not leave after a year (something like a free apartment if they are successfully staying in the country 5 years later).

    That is the thing. That is GDP for the entire population. White SA have a GDP per cap of 35,000 and that is not even adjusting for PPP or cost of living. Another thing is despite the fact that SA has a shit hole crime rate that is not everywhere and most whites outside of the farmers and some rural areas live in communities with crime rates lower then Russia’s. It would be a hard sell for most of them but for the farmers it makes good sense. The SA white farms are some of the best in the world and Russia is a country with a neglected agriculture industry. Now if the Kremlin bureaucrats had some come sense then they may pay the Southern African Farmers(Not just SA but also Zimbabwe[formerly Southern Rhodesia then just Rhodesia] and Namibia[formerly South West Africa] and some others) to settle on Russian farm land.

    Here is an example of Southern African farmers doing well after being kicked out.

  120. @Anarcho-Supremacist
    @Anatoly Karlin


    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.
     
    Does that apply if you are "given" citizenship from the president like Gérard Depardieu and few others were?

    Replies: @Mitleser

    No, they can keep their old one.
    Like this guy.

  121. @Felix Keverich
    Actually, I'm not sure this is such a good idea. Russia is not the most comfortable place to live in - these people will grow disillusioned quickly. Their kids will move to the city and become leaders in Russian LGBTQ movement (because Dutch DNA).

    I know that Russia can't be worse, than South Africa, but at least back there they had a traditional lifestyle to cling to. In Russia it won't be the same.

    [email protected], I wrote my comment before I saw yours. But Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter - there WILL be disillusioned Boers.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Beckow, @The Big Red Scary, @pyrrhus, @Swan Knight, @Anonymous

    Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter

    It’s far from perfect but improving each year. Propiska is not a priori a problem, but needs to be reformed. The big problem is that there is no way to force a landlord to register you. Germans have a good solution to this: you go to the Buergeramt with your rental contract and they register you on the spot. The Russian government should adopt such a system, since it will enable them to see who is failing to pay taxes on rental income.

    In the meantime, there is a workaround for people on visas: anyone can register you at the local post office for the duration of your visa. This takes fifteeen minutes if you have all of the documents in order.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    @The Big Red Scary


    It’s far from perfect
     
    That's one way of putting it lol

    IMO the only practical solution for the problem of Russian bureaucracy is to minimise the number of situations where a citizen has need of its services. Instead of trying to reform propiska system, it should be eliminated altogether.

  122. Znzn [AKA "Nznz"] says: • Website

    OT but why are in commenters so triggered by Pakistani groomers but do not seem to have the same level of apprehension about grooming and pedophilia and pederasty by the LGBT community? Is it because LGBTs are not Muslim so people here do not care? Or because the MRA movement and MGTOW movement has a very very large number of closet homosexuals? I mean how many articles have you seen by Unz columnists talking about the pederasty and pedophile problem within the LGBT community, or how many gays are groomed in their teens by older gays?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Znzn


    Is it because LGBTs are not Muslim so people here do not care?
     
    People here do tend to be pretty obsessed with race and religion.

    I guess most people have just become accustomed to living in the sewer that is modern western society and just accept homosexual predators as a normal part of modern life. And maybe the Russians and east Europeans here aren't worried because the problem hasn't reached them on any great scale yet.
  123. Anonymous [AKA "Huguenot"] says:

    Praise God, and thank you Russia. We have been so concerned for these people and have been praying for them. Russia is the answer to our prayers. They will assimilate well in your culture and be very good, hard working citizens.

    There are many people that are beginning to realise that Russian Christian roots are outworking in the goodness of that nation. It is becoming a light to the decadent west. We love you Russia and pray for God’s protection upon you.

  124. So how do you make Russia’s economy grow at 5 percent or 6 percent per year, is it basically a given that China’s per capita GDP will exceed Russia’s, or can the Kremlin raise the Russian economie’s long run GDP growth rate enough to prevent this from happening?

  125. @Hyperborean
    @Felix Keverich

    I think the imposition of European culture by colonial governors and settlement from Europe by the French or Dutch would have had the same cultural effect eventually.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich

    Doubtful. Remember what the French did to Haiti? Basically, for your vision to materialise French colonial authorities would have to stop acting like French.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Felix Keverich

    But Haiti is still rather French culturally, albeit a negrified version. And few Caribbean islands were left in good shape by any European power.

    Also remember that not everything the Spanish conquered was as densely populated with Amerindians as Southern Mexico and Peru so the French would not have needed to match Spanish terror methods to culturally convert say, the Southern Cone.

  126. @Oprah Fan
    @Daniel Chieh

    Boers stay where they are because they don't have to compete very hard. Going to a place where there is tougher competition is not appealing. This is not a casual admission people tend to make.

    Replies: @KenH, @Uncle

    Boers stay where they are because they don’t have to compete very hard.

    That’s false. Boers are very attached to the land and nation that they built. I’ve seen interviews with Boers who’ve had a chance to emigrate to Europe and elsewhere but can’t bring themselves to leave. . They’re some of the world’s best farmers and would succeed as farmers wherever they settled (if they ever choose to leave).

  127. @Felix Keverich
    @Hyperborean

    Doubtful. Remember what the French did to Haiti? Basically, for your vision to materialise French colonial authorities would have to stop acting like French.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    But Haiti is still rather French culturally, albeit a negrified version. And few Caribbean islands were left in good shape by any European power.

    Also remember that not everything the Spanish conquered was as densely populated with Amerindians as Southern Mexico and Peru so the French would not have needed to match Spanish terror methods to culturally convert say, the Southern Cone.

  128. @The Big Red Scary
    @Felix Keverich


    Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter
     
    It's far from perfect but improving each year. Propiska is not a priori a problem, but needs to be reformed. The big problem is that there is no way to force a landlord to register you. Germans have a good solution to this: you go to the Buergeramt with your rental contract and they register you on the spot. The Russian government should adopt such a system, since it will enable them to see who is failing to pay taxes on rental income.

    In the meantime, there is a workaround for people on visas: anyone can register you at the local post office for the duration of your visa. This takes fifteeen minutes if you have all of the documents in order.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich

    It’s far from perfect

    That’s one way of putting it lol

    IMO the only practical solution for the problem of Russian bureaucracy is to minimise the number of situations where a citizen has need of its services. Instead of trying to reform propiska system, it should be eliminated altogether.

  129. @Mr. Hack
    @iffen

    Ukrainains are by nature hard working survivors no matter where you find them, If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much for their well being.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @anonymous coward, @iffen

    I wouldn’t worry too much for their well being.

    1) Unless I am misinformed they are sitting on some of the best agricultural land in the world and I worry about the fate of this land whether it is in my state, my country or some other nation.

    2) Ukrainians, like Europeans in general, keep dragging Uncle Sam into their disputes and I would like to stay out of some of them.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @iffen

    The US, at least, is trying to save some face as a signatory of the Budapest Memorandum in lending some support for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, unlike Russia that was clearly a transgressor of its stated responsibilities outlined within the same document.

  130. @Daniel Chieh
    @iffen

    Not too far from where I live, some guy has like eight alpacas or something in his ranch. They're cute, though I can't imagine they take the heat well. I suspect the demand for highly priced, locally sourced alpaca yarn for SWPL craft projects is unique to the US.

    Replies: @iffen

    for SWPL craft projects is unique to the US.

    We truly live in an age like no other. I know of a gentleman farmer and wife that make and sell artisan cheese made from sheep milk. Apparently it sells per ounce as if it is gold.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @iffen

    So, have you thought about raising alpacas now? At least it isn't emus.

    Can't believe anyone fell for that meme.

    Replies: @iffen

  131. AP says:

    OT but Trump is right about Germany and Russia:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/angela-merkel-hits-back-at-donald-trump-at-nato-summit/ar-AAzUDvJ?ocid=spartanntp

    This summit is shaping up to be the most divisive in NATO’s 69-year history. Normally, NATO summits are mostly fixed in advance and proceed in an orderly fashion. Trump’s first words signaled this one was not going to be like that.

    He complained that German politicians had been working for Russian energy companies after leaving politics and said this too was inappropriate. Germany was totally controlled by Russia, Trump said.

    With Stoltenberg looking on uncomfortably throughout, the US president was unrelenting. “I think it is very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia,” Trump said. “We are supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions dollars a year to Russia.

    “We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France, we are protecting all of these countries and then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with Russia where they are paying billions of dollars into the coffers of Russia. I think that is very inappropriate.”

    He added: “It should never have been allowed to happen. Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they will be getting 60-70% of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline.

    “You tell me if that’s appropriate because I think it’s not. On top of that Germany is just paying just a little bit over 1% [of GDP on NATO defense contributions] whereas the United States is paying 4.2% of a much larger GDP. So I think that’s inappropriate also.”

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Disagree: German_reader
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @AP

    Evidently the Germans are not controlled enough by Russia to want to drop sanctions, having interests with Russia does not necessarily mean a pro-Russian stance, as businessman Mittens Romney showed.

    I wonder if Trump is just complaining because he wants Germany to buy more LNG from the US.

    Replies: @AP

    , @German_reader
    @AP


    We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France
     
    That may still have been true in the 1980s (but back then the Europeans also spent more on defense and had conscription-based armies), but today it's a ridiculous claim. US security policy for the past 30 years has been about striving for permanent global American hegemony and Mideast wars that have killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions...none of that has any connection to German interests, so sorry, no reason to be grateful for that.
    A new Cold war-style confrontation with Russia also isn't in German interests which aren't and shouldn't be identical to those of Poles, US nationalists and various East European immigrant communities in the US with grievances against Russia.
    That being said, Germany should certainly spend much more on its armed forces, it's a necessary precondition for telling American forces to finally leave Germany.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @AP

    At the end of the day, Trump is still driving a huge wedge into the NATO alliance. It will of course be an extremely bad outcome for Russia if he actually does somehow manage to shoehorn France and Germany into the Polish/Baltic vision of what the European security posture should look like (everyone spending at least 2% of GDP on the military, forward bases near the Russian border, continued strong American military presence, cancellation of Nord Stream 2, more and more overt support for the Ukraine, etc.), but considering all the issues he's been triggering them on - Iran, climate change, trade - that seems unlikely.

    , @Okechukwu
    @AP

    There's a little bit of projection going on here with Trump. The widely held notion that he is a Russian puppet or even a Russian intelligence asset despite, empirically, being tougher on Russia than his predecessors, seems to have hit a mark. Trump, however, doesn't understand the energy markets. These are fungible international commodities that know no national borders and flow inexorably to the most profitable destination. In trade, distance is expensive. Seaborne crude oil deliveries can compete with pipeline traffic because they travel in these massive VLCC or ULCC tankers. But natural gas is another matter altogether. The infrastructure and shipping costs of LNG deliveries are substantial and not competitive.

    Having said that, the main problem with the Russian energy industry is that like all third world dictatorships, the firms are owned or controlled by the state. So it becomes easier to question the motivations of Russian companies as to whether they aren't being used to advance Russian foreign policy objectives. And it becomes easier to tie Russian entities to the actions of the Russian government. Exxon-Mobil is a private sector company, but Gazprom is the Russian government. Consequently, Exxon-Mobil can pursue its business untethered to the US government, which accords it much greater credibility and shelters it from the ill will the US often engenders. They do observe US sanctions. But then every company in the world is obliged to implement US sanctions if they want to continue doing business. That includes Russian companies. As an example, most Russian companies have avoided doing business in Crimea in observance of US sanctions.

    , @dfordoom
    @AP


    “We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France, we are protecting all of these countries
     
    Trump does talk some evil nonsense sometimes. The U.S. is not protecting Germany and France and other European countries, it is keeping its vassals in line.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  132. @iffen
    @Mr. Hack

    I wouldn’t worry too much for their well being.

    1) Unless I am misinformed they are sitting on some of the best agricultural land in the world and I worry about the fate of this land whether it is in my state, my country or some other nation.

    2) Ukrainians, like Europeans in general, keep dragging Uncle Sam into their disputes and I would like to stay out of some of them.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    The US, at least, is trying to save some face as a signatory of the Budapest Memorandum in lending some support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, unlike Russia that was clearly a transgressor of its stated responsibilities outlined within the same document.

  133. @Okechukwu
    @iffen


    Then we will see the economic miracle of Zimbabwe re-created.
     
    Like the economic miracle after the czarist era in Russia? How many millions died of famine? With revolution comes a period of transition and dislocation, but it doesn't last forever. Unfortunately, the revolution in South Africa was stillborn. But the sooner the Boer dead-enders depart the sooner they can go about the business of building their nation.

    I do have grave reservations about this news. Russia styles itself a serious country and no serious country is going to align itself with "white genocide" conspiracy theorists and propagandists. Besides, Russia's allies in South Africa won't take kindly to being accused of genocide and Russia also styles itself as a champion of diplomacy. It won't throw one of its few allies under the bus.

    Replies: @iffen, @Philip Owen

    White Genocide is a very strong idea in Russia, except that they call it Russian genocide and add socialism to the list of enemies. 10’s and 10’s of millions of Russians did die in the 20th C and they look for someone to blame but they also borrow the vocabulary and ideology from the US Far Right.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Philip Owen

    I wouldn't quite call it a "very strong" idea, but yes, we Russian nationalists are doing a lot to make that a reality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7yal9Gat0

    In my ideal future there will be Museums of the Russian Genocide beneath what used to be Lenin's Mausoleum and in cities across the world. Much like how the Jewish Museum & Center of Tolerance graces Moscow today - so lame to tell the story of others' holocausts, but not your own.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Philip Owen, @Rattus Norwegius

    , @Okechukwu
    @Philip Owen


    White Genocide is a very strong idea in Russia, except that they call it Russian genocide and add socialism to the list of enemies. 10′s and 10′s of millions of Russians did die in the 20th C and they look for someone to blame but they also borrow the vocabulary and ideology from the US Far Right.
     
    But in the South African context, white genocide is viewed as white supremacist propaganda which withers under minor scrutiny. When these ideas migrate from Internet cocoons to the real world they're inevitably subjected to due-diligence, at which point slogans and catch phrases won't do. No responsible government will associate itself with it.

    South Africans who genuinely want to emigrate do a tremendous disservice to themselves if they couch their appeals in terms of an alleged genocide of white people. Any semi-competent government bureaucrat can cursorily determine this claim to be false.

    As an example:

    White South African family’s refugee bid rejected, accused of boosting case with ‘racist propaganda’

    A government lawyer said the fear of white children being raped by blacks was highly offensive as the information the family relied on was “white-supremacist hate literature” that should be ignored.

    The government also said the Endres’ claim was based on a risk of generalized crime in South Africa, meaning that it could impact almost anyone, not only those who are white or Afrikaners.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/white-south-african-familys-refugee-bid-rejected-allegedly-boosted-case-with-white-supremacist-information

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @notanon, @Philip Owen

  134. @AP
    OT but Trump is right about Germany and Russia:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/angela-merkel-hits-back-at-donald-trump-at-nato-summit/ar-AAzUDvJ?ocid=spartanntp

    This summit is shaping up to be the most divisive in NATO’s 69-year history. Normally, NATO summits are mostly fixed in advance and proceed in an orderly fashion. Trump’s first words signaled this one was not going to be like that.

    He complained that German politicians had been working for Russian energy companies after leaving politics and said this too was inappropriate. Germany was totally controlled by Russia, Trump said.

    With Stoltenberg looking on uncomfortably throughout, the US president was unrelenting. “I think it is very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia,” Trump said. “We are supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions dollars a year to Russia.

    “We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France, we are protecting all of these countries and then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with Russia where they are paying billions of dollars into the coffers of Russia. I think that is very inappropriate.”

    He added: “It should never have been allowed to happen. Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they will be getting 60-70% of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline.

    “You tell me if that’s appropriate because I think it’s not. On top of that Germany is just paying just a little bit over 1% [of GDP on NATO defense contributions] whereas the United States is paying 4.2% of a much larger GDP. So I think that’s inappropriate also.”

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @German_reader, @Anatoly Karlin, @Okechukwu, @dfordoom

    Evidently the Germans are not controlled enough by Russia to want to drop sanctions, having interests with Russia does not necessarily mean a pro-Russian stance, as businessman Mittens Romney showed.

    I wonder if Trump is just complaining because he wants Germany to buy more LNG from the US.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Hyperborean


    Evidently the Germans are not controlled enough by Russia to want to drop sanctions, having interests with Russia does not necessarily mean a pro-Russian stance,
     
    In Eastern Europe, Germany has a reputation of being Russia's Trojan Horse. Trump is saying what Eastern Europeans have been saying for years.

    I wonder if Trump is just complaining because he wants Germany to buy more LNG from the US.
     
    It's probably both. It's nice when geopolitical interests and economic interests are aligned. That having been said, Trump is right - if Russia really is a rival or threat, why pay them billions and billions when instead these billions can be paid to an ally and protector who has allowed you to save a lot of money because they took on your defense responsibilities?

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Rattus Norwegius

  135. @anonymous coward
    @Mr. Hack

    You wouldn't know a Ukrainian if one bit you in the ass, you stupid clown.

    (Ukrainians are many things, but definitely not "hard-working". Wily and crafty, rather.)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Both of my parents were Ukrainians, therefore, I had plenty of opportunity to observe their work ethic firsthand. Many of my neighbors and friends in the community that I lived in were Ukrainians too, professional people, businessmen, and responsible workers of the factories of a bygone era.

    So I’m wondering, exactly what ethnic group spawned a useless fabricator of lies and unsubstantiated malicious characterizations? If’ I were you, I’d go back and slide beneath the rock that you came from!

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    In Russia, Ukrainians do not have the reputation of being either particularly hard-working or lazy. Ukrainians are seen as no less hardworking than Russians. They are considered higher quality, more skilled workers than central Asians, but also crafty, requiring people who hire them to be careful.

    Ukrainians don't have a reputation in Poland of being lazy, either.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @anonymous coward
    @Mr. Hack


    Both of my parents were Ukrainians, therefore, I had plenty of opportunity to observe their work ethic firsthand.
     
    I'm guessing Galician, not Ukrainian.

    Many of my neighbors and friends in the community that I lived in were Ukrainians too, professional people, businessmen, and responsible workers of the factories of a bygone era.
     
    Yeah, "Ukrainian", just like the "Irish" residents of Boston. Don't make me laugh.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  136. @Daniel Chieh
    @Philip Owen


    I am looking at Zambian tomatoes but a minimum of £15,000 to move a refridgerated container.
     
    This seems insane. I assume the tomatoes are shipped unripened to prevent damage and later ripened with ethylene gas?

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    It depends on the season. In high season (Russian Winter – the only time prices might take it) they are prepacked which greatly reduces damage. The supermarket buyers have strict rules about lifetime. They don’t want to do any ripening which means that they must reach Russia at the right moment.

    Distributors will buy green and ripen but they will also try and cut me out.

  137. @Felix Keverich
    @Mr. Hack

    lol Ukrainians are lousy workers: entitled, lazy, shirking their duties, stealing everything that's not nailed down. Arguably the worst work ethic on the planet, on par with Sub-Sahara Africa. And a corresponding level of GDP. ;)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP, @Hyperborean, @Truth

    stealing everything that’s not nailed down.

    Don’t make me laugh, you clown! It was Russia that rode into Ukraine in 2014 and annexed (stole) the Crimea from Ukraine, and is still trying to rip off the Donbas too, for which the industrialized part of the world has penalized Russia by slapping on sanctions which are still in place today, Bozo! Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world’s security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Mr. Hack


    Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world’s security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.
     
    Since you live there, what do you think about America? Do you think that the US plays a constructive role in the world today?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @AP
    @Mr. Hack


    Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world’s security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.
     
    Russia is a menace to Eastern European security but globally speaking the US has caused far more havoc than has Russia, in the last few decades. What Russia has done in Ukraine is terrible and the Russian state is responsible for more deaths of Europeans in the late 20th/early 21st century than any other state. But it pales in comparison to Syria, Libya, Iraq.

    Also, Russia is hardly plummeting downhill. Ironically, Russians believe the same fairy-tales about Ukraine that many Westerners believe about Russia.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @annamaria
    @Mr. Hack

    "The industrialized part of the world has penalized Russia by slapping on sanctions which are still in place today, Bozo! Russia is a pariah and a menace .."
    -- Don't' be hysterical, particularly if you are so much convinced of your own wisdom.

    How about the Skripal affair -- still smarting from the stupidities of the UK deciders?
    What about Browder's Magnitsky Act -- still did not get it?
    Conversion of Ukraine into Kaganat of Nuland -- still triumphing?
    "Ukraine's economy is starting to disintegrate: Polish Deputy PM:" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-minister/ukraines-economy-is-starting-to-disintegrate-polish-deputy-pm-idUSKBN0LZ1DH20150303
    "These signals which are coming from Ukraine are very disturbing, because the economy there is beginning to disintegrate, economic ties are beginning to disintegrate... In a black scenario of developments in Ukraine, one cannot exclude an inflow of a few hundred thousand emigrants to Poland.”

    Ziocons are moving to betray the Ukrainian patsies: "Corporate Media’s About-Face on Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis:" https://consortiumnews.com/2018/07/05/corporate-medias-about-face-on-ukraines-neo-nazis/
    Though Knesset is still eyeing the Ukrainian resources, preferably, without Ukrainians: "Israeli arms are being sent to a heavily armed neo-Nazi militia in Ukraine" https://thedailycoin.org/2018/07/16/israel-is-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/

    Unlike the savage bloody submission of Kosovo by NATO (natzo), Crimea went through a legitimate process: http://www.aalep.eu/legitimate-case-recognition-crimea

  138. @anonymous coward
    @Stan d Mute


    Maybe, but they’d be on reservations anyway if they hadn’t succumbed to disease and weren’t slaughtered in war.
     
    I don't believe it. Without the apocalyptic plagues, American Indians would quickly take up Western government practices, Western technology and Western religion. History shows that Indians were some of the quickest people to assimilate Western culture. (Unlike Africans.) Also, they'd definitely be Roman Catholic, not Protestant. Also, there would be a lot of them -- Western civilization + American food = population growth.

    A modern USA that is 50% Roman Catholic Native is an interesting alternative history timeline to explore.

    I'd guess the blacks would be shipped back to Africa in that timeline, though. Can't imagine the native constituency tolerating an African underclass.

    I'd also imagine lots more 'state rights' in that timeline -- even with a unified USA, the natives would probably want to leave more room for remnants of tribal traditions.

    All in all, probably a better timeline than this one.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Philip Owen, @Truth

    Until Andrew Jackson dispossessed them by altering the law to take them from owners of their land to occupiers, the 5 civilized tribes, particularly the Cherokee were more or less indistinguishable from other slave owning plantation owners. They were largely Protestant so far as I recall. Lots of Scottish influence.

  139. @Zhukov1945
    @Marcus

    Derp just bc blacks kill a lot of blacks then the fact they kill less whites means concerned whites are dorks...gtfo.

    Replies: @Marcus

    No…. It means that trying to equate living in a violent country with being subject to genocide looks hysterical. Also it’s a fool’s errand to try to garner sympathy from the outside world, which will never forgive Afrikaners for apartheid. They need to either leave or try to carve out their own state.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Marcus


    It means that trying to equate living in a violent country with being subject to genocide looks hysterical.
     
    it's the western media's cover-up of all forms of anti-white violence which reinforces the "white genocide" meme.

    Replies: @Marcus

  140. @Mr. Hack
    @anonymous coward

    Both of my parents were Ukrainians, therefore, I had plenty of opportunity to observe their work ethic firsthand. Many of my neighbors and friends in the community that I lived in were Ukrainians too, professional people, businessmen, and responsible workers of the factories of a bygone era.

    So I'm wondering, exactly what ethnic group spawned a useless fabricator of lies and unsubstantiated malicious characterizations? If' I were you, I'd go back and slide beneath the rock that you came from!

    Replies: @AP, @anonymous coward

    In Russia, Ukrainians do not have the reputation of being either particularly hard-working or lazy. Ukrainians are seen as no less hardworking than Russians. They are considered higher quality, more skilled workers than central Asians, but also crafty, requiring people who hire them to be careful.

    Ukrainians don’t have a reputation in Poland of being lazy, either.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    And do you feel that that negative stereotype is warranted for the vast majority of the millions of Ukrainians that live in Russia? And how about how Ukrainians perceive Russians in Ukraine? I'm asking you, because you've lived in both countries.

    Replies: @AP

  141. @Hyperborean
    @songbird


    [T]hey are professions that seek audiences, and anything that does is likely to have a leftward bias.
     
    What about UK tabloids? Along with the mindless celebrity gossip and clickbait headlines some of them (e.g. the Daily Mail) don't mind showing pictures of Africans flooding European beaches and complaining about 'Romanians' if it gets them views.

    For example: let’s say it is 60:40. State news is another filter, making it 80:20.
     
    While Anglosphere and Western European state media is comfortablely Liberal, there are well-known Liberal private newspapers and TV stations that are even more Liberal e.g. The Guardian is usually far more Liberal than the relatively anodyne and pernicious BBC.

    Of course the journalists who work at state media may hold more radical Liberal views than what they present on the programmes.

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @songbird

    And yet, during the referendum, the Chief Producer of BBC News led daily with stories that conflated Syrian refugees, illegal economic migrants from Asia and Africa crossing the Mediterranean to Greece and Italy, a camp of illegals at Calais and migration within Europe. These groups were all deliberately confused. Such news stopped on the day of the referendum. This clearly delivered the vote to Leave. Said Producer has since been sacked.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Philip Owen

    Sorry, could you please clarify your point? Are you saying the BBC was biased in favour of Leave or in favour of Remain?

    Replies: @notanon, @Philip Owen

  142. @Felix Keverich
    @Mr. Hack

    lol Ukrainians are lousy workers: entitled, lazy, shirking their duties, stealing everything that's not nailed down. Arguably the worst work ethic on the planet, on par with Sub-Sahara Africa. And a corresponding level of GDP. ;)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP, @Hyperborean, @Truth

    Ukrainians are lousy workers: entitled, lazy, shirking their duties, stealing everything that’s not nailed down. Arguably the worst work ethic on the planet

    LOL, that must be why people in Russia who can afford not to deal with Central Asians use Ukrainians to remont their properties.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @AP

    My wife and I subsidize an older couple from Ukraine who have settled in Russia. It’s a kind of neighborly make work program. In a few years. we hope to employ them and their friends as we develop 6 sotok.

    A few times in the past we had a local Tajiki lady do some cleaning and soup cooking, but she couldn’t wrap her head around Orthodox fasting.

  143. @Mr. Hack
    @Felix Keverich


    stealing everything that’s not nailed down.
     
    Don't make me laugh, you clown! It was Russia that rode into Ukraine in 2014 and annexed (stole) the Crimea from Ukraine, and is still trying to rip off the Donbas too, for which the industrialized part of the world has penalized Russia by slapping on sanctions which are still in place today, Bozo! Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world's security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @AP, @annamaria

    Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world’s security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.

    Since you live there, what do you think about America? Do you think that the US plays a constructive role in the world today?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Hyperborean

    I general yes: the business of America is business. Being a force for business development is good for the world, wherever it is. As far as Ukraine is concerned, I think that the US as a signatory to the Budapest Memorandum is making some right steps, but it could always do more. I do, however, question the US meddling incessantly in the Mid East and question some of its military operations there.

  144. AP says:
    @Hyperborean
    @AP

    Evidently the Germans are not controlled enough by Russia to want to drop sanctions, having interests with Russia does not necessarily mean a pro-Russian stance, as businessman Mittens Romney showed.

    I wonder if Trump is just complaining because he wants Germany to buy more LNG from the US.

    Replies: @AP

    Evidently the Germans are not controlled enough by Russia to want to drop sanctions, having interests with Russia does not necessarily mean a pro-Russian stance,

    In Eastern Europe, Germany has a reputation of being Russia’s Trojan Horse. Trump is saying what Eastern Europeans have been saying for years.

    I wonder if Trump is just complaining because he wants Germany to buy more LNG from the US.

    It’s probably both. It’s nice when geopolitical interests and economic interests are aligned. That having been said, Trump is right – if Russia really is a rival or threat, why pay them billions and billions when instead these billions can be paid to an ally and protector who has allowed you to save a lot of money because they took on your defense responsibilities?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @AP

    But Germany's and various East European nations' national interests are not necessarily the same.

    In contrast to Poland or the Baltics, Germany has much more to fear from America than Russia.

    America and East Europeans demanding German 'solidarity' on Russian matters doesn't make much sense, any more than Berlin invoking 'solidarity' when demanding that East Europeans follow the will of Berlin.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Rattus Norwegius
    @AP

    "In Eastern Europe, Germany has a reputation of being Russia’s Trojan Horse. Trump is saying what Eastern Europeans have been saying for years."

    Today the pipelines transporting Russian hydrocarbons and Russia's allies hydrocarbons travel thru Ukraine and Poland. Ukraine and Poland are to states that has troubled relations with Russia. In Poland's case there is also a dispute with Western European states in EU politics. Poland has leverage over Western European states like Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and France due to it's abillity to cut off the supply of hydrocarbons.

    Ukraine also gets a similar leverage against Russia. If Ukraine were to block Russian hydrocarbons from crossing it's territory, then Poland would gain even more leverage over Russia. Ukraine and Poland could use this advantage to cooperate to strenghten their position against Western Europe, USA and Russia. This is why Russia wants the pipelines bypassing Poland and Ukraine.

    Western Europe would also be more able to stand up to Eastern Europe and the Visegrad group by removing this leverage. Not everything is about external politics, in my mind this is about internal EU politics for the West Europeans.

    Besides the politics these pipelines are also economic investments for Western Europe and Russia. The EU also becomes more independant of the United States. These pipelines should not be neccesary as it is probably cheaper to continue to use overland pipes, but it will improve the position of many Europeans states.

    If Eastern Europe and USA tries to stop this, then they are just malevolent. Instead USA and Eastern Europe should not try to hurt Western Europe, they can do this while weakening Russian economy and hold over Western Europe. The best solution for doing this would be to promote a trans-caspian pipeline from Azerbajian to Turkmenistan.

    "if Russia really is a rival or threat, why pay them billions and billions when instead these billions can be paid to an ally and protector who has allowed you to save a lot of money because they took on your defense responsibilities?"

    Germany has not been threatened by any outside power since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The American decision to have high military spending is their own, they cannot demand that others should so the same. The military does not need consistently larger proportion of the state revenues.

    Replies: @Medvedev

  145. @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    In Russia, Ukrainians do not have the reputation of being either particularly hard-working or lazy. Ukrainians are seen as no less hardworking than Russians. They are considered higher quality, more skilled workers than central Asians, but also crafty, requiring people who hire them to be careful.

    Ukrainians don't have a reputation in Poland of being lazy, either.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    And do you feel that that negative stereotype is warranted for the vast majority of the millions of Ukrainians that live in Russia? And how about how Ukrainians perceive Russians in Ukraine? I’m asking you, because you’ve lived in both countries.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    When it comes to first-hand knowledge, versus stuff taken from the media, stereotypes tend to have some truth in them. In Russia, if you want to hire people who will do a good job, go with Ukrainians or perhaps Moldovans. But be careful because these people are clever or savvy enough to overcharge if they can get away with it. I know examples of this happening with Ukrainians. Excellent work, but over budget and upon investigation unnecessarily so.

    Here in the USA I hire Poles and Ukrainians to do renovations. Unfortunately, many Americans who do this stuff nowadays have opioid problems. Who wants a junkie in their house?

    There aren't people from Russia in Ukraine; native Russians don't have much of any reputation. People from Donbas had a reputation as being crude and criminal. In Kiev a few years before the war there was a sign in one of the passages under the street - "do not urinate here, this is not Donetsk." The war has made people bitter, but before the war Ukrainian attitudes towards Russia was similar to that of Canadians towards the USA - Russia is more violent, Russia is dirtier, less "European", people are brainwashed etc. Kiev has more litter in the streets than does Moscow, but locals told me - sorry about the litter, but you must be used to it, living in Moscow (OTOH, Ukrainian villages really are much cleaner and better put together than Russian ones).

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Philip Owen

  146. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @Felix Keverich


    stealing everything that’s not nailed down.
     
    Don't make me laugh, you clown! It was Russia that rode into Ukraine in 2014 and annexed (stole) the Crimea from Ukraine, and is still trying to rip off the Donbas too, for which the industrialized part of the world has penalized Russia by slapping on sanctions which are still in place today, Bozo! Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world's security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @AP, @annamaria

    Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world’s security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.

    Russia is a menace to Eastern European security but globally speaking the US has caused far more havoc than has Russia, in the last few decades. What Russia has done in Ukraine is terrible and the Russian state is responsible for more deaths of Europeans in the late 20th/early 21st century than any other state. But it pales in comparison to Syria, Libya, Iraq.

    Also, Russia is hardly plummeting downhill. Ironically, Russians believe the same fairy-tales about Ukraine that many Westerners believe about Russia.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP


    According to official figures, Russia’s economy experienced a minor but surprising contraction in November. The country’s Ministry of Economic Development observed that gross domestic product (GDP) shrank by 0.3 percent from November 2016 levels, which stands in stark contrast to the 1.5-percent growth that was being predicted by economists. Weak industrial output, which fell by 3.6 percent on an annual basis, was held chiefly responsible for the disappointing performance
     
    .

    This is current information, as of May 2018. And clearly the vast majority of Russia's economy is still directly tied to commodity prices, a very dangerous situation for the future. So, if not plummeting then I guess 'stagnating' might be a better term.

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/russias-economic-recovery/

    Replies: @AP, @Marcus

  147. German_reader says:
    @AP
    OT but Trump is right about Germany and Russia:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/angela-merkel-hits-back-at-donald-trump-at-nato-summit/ar-AAzUDvJ?ocid=spartanntp

    This summit is shaping up to be the most divisive in NATO’s 69-year history. Normally, NATO summits are mostly fixed in advance and proceed in an orderly fashion. Trump’s first words signaled this one was not going to be like that.

    He complained that German politicians had been working for Russian energy companies after leaving politics and said this too was inappropriate. Germany was totally controlled by Russia, Trump said.

    With Stoltenberg looking on uncomfortably throughout, the US president was unrelenting. “I think it is very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia,” Trump said. “We are supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions dollars a year to Russia.

    “We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France, we are protecting all of these countries and then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with Russia where they are paying billions of dollars into the coffers of Russia. I think that is very inappropriate.”

    He added: “It should never have been allowed to happen. Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they will be getting 60-70% of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline.

    “You tell me if that’s appropriate because I think it’s not. On top of that Germany is just paying just a little bit over 1% [of GDP on NATO defense contributions] whereas the United States is paying 4.2% of a much larger GDP. So I think that’s inappropriate also.”

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @German_reader, @Anatoly Karlin, @Okechukwu, @dfordoom

    We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France

    That may still have been true in the 1980s (but back then the Europeans also spent more on defense and had conscription-based armies), but today it’s a ridiculous claim. US security policy for the past 30 years has been about striving for permanent global American hegemony and Mideast wars that have killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions…none of that has any connection to German interests, so sorry, no reason to be grateful for that.
    A new Cold war-style confrontation with Russia also isn’t in German interests which aren’t and shouldn’t be identical to those of Poles, US nationalists and various East European immigrant communities in the US with grievances against Russia.
    That being said, Germany should certainly spend much more on its armed forces, it’s a necessary precondition for telling American forces to finally leave Germany.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader

    NATO is poised to become a diversity-Warsaw Pact. I'd advise all to leave.

  148. @Philip Owen
    @Hyperborean

    And yet, during the referendum, the Chief Producer of BBC News led daily with stories that conflated Syrian refugees, illegal economic migrants from Asia and Africa crossing the Mediterranean to Greece and Italy, a camp of illegals at Calais and migration within Europe. These groups were all deliberately confused. Such news stopped on the day of the referendum. This clearly delivered the vote to Leave. Said Producer has since been sacked.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    Sorry, could you please clarify your point? Are you saying the BBC was biased in favour of Leave or in favour of Remain?

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Hyperborean

    the BBC is

    1) 100% pro-EU
    2) 100% pro open borders

    i think he's saying the BBC's guilt-tripping campaign over "refugees" to promote open borders had the unintended consequence of helping the Brexit vote - which is probably true

    , @Philip Owen
    @Hyperborean

    The BBC is a very big organization. There were current affairs presenters who showed strong pro EU emotions when interviewing Leavers but by no means all. However, set against that was a large skew by some producers in selecting guest speakers. They would chose strong Europhobes and set them against half hearted government spokespeople rather than actual supporters of the EU. Also, the BBC allowed Brexit supporters to pack the audience during the important current affairs programme Question Time. The QT chairman was clearly pro EU but the guest list was strong on charismatic Leavers and the audience was routinely packed out with Leaver plants (often lying about their credentials to be included). A transmission from Oxford was classic in this instance. However, overall, in either way this was not that important. People who watch these programmes are high information types anyway.

    My main point was about television news on BBC One, the main UK news programme. This systematically presented the Leave agenda in particular deliberately heightening emotion about immigration. As this was the conclusive issue for the result (and I know about the Ashcroft poll - look again) it was very significant. So bias here was decisive.

    Replies: @notanon

  149. since it clearly means that Putler & Co. are reading my blog:

    i always assumed so – speaking of which….

    PUTIN!!!!

    while you’re at it domed farming in the far north please – Boers are the perfect people to test it out

    https://www.fastcompany.com/3067899/this-wonderfully-warm-biodome-will-let-icelanders-escape-their-cold-bleak-winters

  150. @Hyperborean
    @Mr. Hack


    Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world’s security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.
     
    Since you live there, what do you think about America? Do you think that the US plays a constructive role in the world today?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I general yes: the business of America is business. Being a force for business development is good for the world, wherever it is. As far as Ukraine is concerned, I think that the US as a signatory to the Budapest Memorandum is making some right steps, but it could always do more. I do, however, question the US meddling incessantly in the Mid East and question some of its military operations there.

  151. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    And do you feel that that negative stereotype is warranted for the vast majority of the millions of Ukrainians that live in Russia? And how about how Ukrainians perceive Russians in Ukraine? I'm asking you, because you've lived in both countries.

    Replies: @AP

    When it comes to first-hand knowledge, versus stuff taken from the media, stereotypes tend to have some truth in them. In Russia, if you want to hire people who will do a good job, go with Ukrainians or perhaps Moldovans. But be careful because these people are clever or savvy enough to overcharge if they can get away with it. I know examples of this happening with Ukrainians. Excellent work, but over budget and upon investigation unnecessarily so.

    Here in the USA I hire Poles and Ukrainians to do renovations. Unfortunately, many Americans who do this stuff nowadays have opioid problems. Who wants a junkie in their house?

    There aren’t people from Russia in Ukraine; native Russians don’t have much of any reputation. People from Donbas had a reputation as being crude and criminal. In Kiev a few years before the war there was a sign in one of the passages under the street – “do not urinate here, this is not Donetsk.” The war has made people bitter, but before the war Ukrainian attitudes towards Russia was similar to that of Canadians towards the USA – Russia is more violent, Russia is dirtier, less “European”, people are brainwashed etc. Kiev has more litter in the streets than does Moscow, but locals told me – sorry about the litter, but you must be used to it, living in Moscow (OTOH, Ukrainian villages really are much cleaner and better put together than Russian ones).

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @AP


    Ukrainian villages really are much cleaner and better put together than Russian ones
     
    I would believe this for Galicia (for the historical reasons you’ve discussed before), but it is definitely at odds with my (limited) experiences of central Ukraine.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Philip Owen
    @AP

    I find Armenians hard working and trustworthy.

  152. @Felix Keverich
    @Mr. Hack

    lol Ukrainians are lousy workers: entitled, lazy, shirking their duties, stealing everything that's not nailed down. Arguably the worst work ethic on the planet, on par with Sub-Sahara Africa. And a corresponding level of GDP. ;)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP, @Hyperborean, @Truth

    I haven’t met any Ukrainians but I doubt their work ethics are much different from Russians, Byelorussians or Lithuanians.

    I think the Ukraine’s post-Soviet economic problems are due to oligarchs there not figuring out that a lifetime’s supply of eggs are more valuable than one chicken dinner.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    @Hyperborean

    It's not like these Ukrainian oligarchs came from Mars, you know, they are flesh and blood of the "Ukrainian nation".

    You may not fully appreciate just how profoundly disfunctional the country is, trailing Egypt in per capita GDP.

    Replies: @AP

  153. @AP
    @Mr. Hack


    Russia is a pariah and a menace to the world’s security, and is steadily plummeting downhill.
     
    Russia is a menace to Eastern European security but globally speaking the US has caused far more havoc than has Russia, in the last few decades. What Russia has done in Ukraine is terrible and the Russian state is responsible for more deaths of Europeans in the late 20th/early 21st century than any other state. But it pales in comparison to Syria, Libya, Iraq.

    Also, Russia is hardly plummeting downhill. Ironically, Russians believe the same fairy-tales about Ukraine that many Westerners believe about Russia.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    According to official figures, Russia’s economy experienced a minor but surprising contraction in November. The country’s Ministry of Economic Development observed that gross domestic product (GDP) shrank by 0.3 percent from November 2016 levels, which stands in stark contrast to the 1.5-percent growth that was being predicted by economists. Weak industrial output, which fell by 3.6 percent on an annual basis, was held chiefly responsible for the disappointing performance

    .

    This is current information, as of May 2018. And clearly the vast majority of Russia’s economy is still directly tied to commodity prices, a very dangerous situation for the future. So, if not plummeting then I guess ‘stagnating’ might be a better term.

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/russias-economic-recovery/

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    There is a big difference between stagnating and plummeting. But Russia's slight growth isn't even stagnating.

    I was in Moscow this spring and I saw no evidence of economic hardship; no one I knew experienced it, and it wasn't evident by the look of the streets (busy stores and restaurants, etc.). Devaluation of the ruble made things a bit cheaper. Same experience in Lviv when I visited last summer, just things were even cheaper.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Marcus
    @Mr. Hack

    Oil prices probably aren't going to collapse a la 2014 in the near future, Russia and the Saudis have made nice

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Okechukwu

  154. @AP
    @Felix Keverich


    Ukrainians are lousy workers: entitled, lazy, shirking their duties, stealing everything that’s not nailed down. Arguably the worst work ethic on the planet
     
    LOL, that must be why people in Russia who can afford not to deal with Central Asians use Ukrainians to remont their properties.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    My wife and I subsidize an older couple from Ukraine who have settled in Russia. It’s a kind of neighborly make work program. In a few years. we hope to employ them and their friends as we develop 6 sotok.

    A few times in the past we had a local Tajiki lady do some cleaning and soup cooking, but she couldn’t wrap her head around Orthodox fasting.

  155. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    Evidently the Germans are not controlled enough by Russia to want to drop sanctions, having interests with Russia does not necessarily mean a pro-Russian stance,
     
    In Eastern Europe, Germany has a reputation of being Russia's Trojan Horse. Trump is saying what Eastern Europeans have been saying for years.

    I wonder if Trump is just complaining because he wants Germany to buy more LNG from the US.
     
    It's probably both. It's nice when geopolitical interests and economic interests are aligned. That having been said, Trump is right - if Russia really is a rival or threat, why pay them billions and billions when instead these billions can be paid to an ally and protector who has allowed you to save a lot of money because they took on your defense responsibilities?

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Rattus Norwegius

    But Germany’s and various East European nations’ national interests are not necessarily the same.

    In contrast to Poland or the Baltics, Germany has much more to fear from America than Russia.

    America and East Europeans demanding German ‘solidarity’ on Russian matters doesn’t make much sense, any more than Berlin invoking ‘solidarity’ when demanding that East Europeans follow the will of Berlin.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Hyperborean


    But Germany’s and various East European nations’ national interests are not necessarily the same.
     
    Correct. This doesn't contradict the idea that Germany is Russia's Trojan horse in Europe.

    In contrast to Poland or the Baltics, Germany has much more to fear from America than Russia.
     
    If the USA were led by a Clinton or a Kamala, allying with Merkel and pushing massive refugee settlement, than yes. I am not sure that this is true of a Trump-led USA.

    America and East Europeans demanding German ‘solidarity’ on Russian matters doesn’t make much sense
     
    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Hyperborean

  156. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @AP


    According to official figures, Russia’s economy experienced a minor but surprising contraction in November. The country’s Ministry of Economic Development observed that gross domestic product (GDP) shrank by 0.3 percent from November 2016 levels, which stands in stark contrast to the 1.5-percent growth that was being predicted by economists. Weak industrial output, which fell by 3.6 percent on an annual basis, was held chiefly responsible for the disappointing performance
     
    .

    This is current information, as of May 2018. And clearly the vast majority of Russia's economy is still directly tied to commodity prices, a very dangerous situation for the future. So, if not plummeting then I guess 'stagnating' might be a better term.

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/russias-economic-recovery/

    Replies: @AP, @Marcus

    There is a big difference between stagnating and plummeting. But Russia’s slight growth isn’t even stagnating.

    I was in Moscow this spring and I saw no evidence of economic hardship; no one I knew experienced it, and it wasn’t evident by the look of the streets (busy stores and restaurants, etc.). Devaluation of the ruble made things a bit cheaper. Same experience in Lviv when I visited last summer, just things were even cheaper.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP


    I was in Moscow this spring and I saw no evidence of economic hardship; no one I knew experienced it, and it wasn’t evident by the look of the streets (busy stores and restaurants, etc.).
     
    Remember a couple of weeks back when I told you about my side trip to the magnificent Museum Anthropolgia in Mexico City? During my subway trip from the airport to the museum I passed the outskirts of some rough neighborhoods, but by and large I didn't see anything that was horrendous. Yet we know that these neighborhoods contain some incredible filth and squalor. A large area around the museum was very nice, including a zoo and many other museums too. Very nice houses and apartment buildings were also to be seen. I think that you possibly could have had similar experiences in Moscow too (besides, Moscow isn't all of Russia)? The article that I cited was based on some good solid statistical data that you need to take into consideration too along with your own possibly stinted or restricted personal views.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  157. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Mitleser

    Good example of what I'm talking about. No, I very much doubt RT would publish that.

    Unfortunately, they also undermine their credibility by pushing unlikely conspiracy theories, such as their articles about how the US was evacuating ISIS fighters by helicopter.

    Replies: @iffen, @notanon

    such as their articles about how the US was evacuating ISIS fighters by helicopter.

    i would be surprised if the US didn’t have embedded spec ops to call in air/artillery strikes with the rebel groups along the Israeli border and they may have needed evac after the recent push in the Golan but those groups are as much a proxy merc army as jihadists.

  158. @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    When it comes to first-hand knowledge, versus stuff taken from the media, stereotypes tend to have some truth in them. In Russia, if you want to hire people who will do a good job, go with Ukrainians or perhaps Moldovans. But be careful because these people are clever or savvy enough to overcharge if they can get away with it. I know examples of this happening with Ukrainians. Excellent work, but over budget and upon investigation unnecessarily so.

    Here in the USA I hire Poles and Ukrainians to do renovations. Unfortunately, many Americans who do this stuff nowadays have opioid problems. Who wants a junkie in their house?

    There aren't people from Russia in Ukraine; native Russians don't have much of any reputation. People from Donbas had a reputation as being crude and criminal. In Kiev a few years before the war there was a sign in one of the passages under the street - "do not urinate here, this is not Donetsk." The war has made people bitter, but before the war Ukrainian attitudes towards Russia was similar to that of Canadians towards the USA - Russia is more violent, Russia is dirtier, less "European", people are brainwashed etc. Kiev has more litter in the streets than does Moscow, but locals told me - sorry about the litter, but you must be used to it, living in Moscow (OTOH, Ukrainian villages really are much cleaner and better put together than Russian ones).

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Philip Owen

    Ukrainian villages really are much cleaner and better put together than Russian ones

    I would believe this for Galicia (for the historical reasons you’ve discussed before), but it is definitely at odds with my (limited) experiences of central Ukraine.

    • Replies: @AP
    @The Big Red Scary

    Galician ones are cleanest and neatest of all. But the ones in central Ukraine were still neater than the ones I saw in Russia. The villages outside Moscow populated by locals rather than dacha-owners (dacha areas are very nice) were awful.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Miro23

  159. @Hyperborean
    @songbird


    [T]hey are professions that seek audiences, and anything that does is likely to have a leftward bias.
     
    What about UK tabloids? Along with the mindless celebrity gossip and clickbait headlines some of them (e.g. the Daily Mail) don't mind showing pictures of Africans flooding European beaches and complaining about 'Romanians' if it gets them views.

    For example: let’s say it is 60:40. State news is another filter, making it 80:20.
     
    While Anglosphere and Western European state media is comfortablely Liberal, there are well-known Liberal private newspapers and TV stations that are even more Liberal e.g. The Guardian is usually far more Liberal than the relatively anodyne and pernicious BBC.

    Of course the journalists who work at state media may hold more radical Liberal views than what they present on the programmes.

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @songbird

    Of course the journalists who work at state media may hold more radical Liberal views than what they present on the programmes.

    What I’ve seen is pretty bad. A German reporter coaching a jobless Afghani to call native Germans racists and blame his problems on them. A BBC reporter verbally sparring with a Hungarian politician and telling him they must take in anyone who comes to Hungary. On American Public TV, I once saw them present a series of gay, nude (but from an angle) S&M photos. I only saw one, but could tell it was a series from the dialogue. The image is still burned in my brain. If I were tasteless, I would describe it, for shock value. They thought it was art. That was in the 1990s. PBS, or its local affiliate. Another thing I remember is them calling the anti-busing advocates racists. meanwhile, the public radio programs in America make me think of Communism.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that state media inevitably becomes evil. Granted, in WW2 the BBC hosted a bunch of talks by CS Lewis on Christianity, I think it is just about absolutely true in a diverse society created from a white Christian substrate. Russia being a kind of federation might be said to be such a place, but it could be that technology and easy living is the real catalyst.

    Another kind of weird thing is their insistence on tax money. In the US, all the main productions are paid for by foundations or corporate sponsors. That’s even before donations. I know distribution costs something, as well as local programing and studios, but they should really just upload everything to Youtube. The Anglosphere is pretty gigantic, I don’t see the need for any tax-financed programming.

    The Guardian is certainly more leftist than the BBC. Probably mainly derives from a legacy of directives, which is another factor in the mix. Also, a weakness of state news. It’s banner has condescending nannyism written all over it. But I think it isn’t as naturally evil, since it doesn’t have the same footprint, or number of employees. There’s something just weird about state media, how so many try to maintain a global footprint. And in places like Africa or Arab countries.

    I’m not quite sure how to classify the British tabloids. Showing a machete-wielding Nigerian attacking a car in London is just a good attention-grabbing image. I think they are otherwise perhaps center-left. I recall some story on two mulatto sisters, one of whom due to gene shuffle looked white.

  160. AP says:
    @Hyperborean
    @AP

    But Germany's and various East European nations' national interests are not necessarily the same.

    In contrast to Poland or the Baltics, Germany has much more to fear from America than Russia.

    America and East Europeans demanding German 'solidarity' on Russian matters doesn't make much sense, any more than Berlin invoking 'solidarity' when demanding that East Europeans follow the will of Berlin.

    Replies: @AP

    But Germany’s and various East European nations’ national interests are not necessarily the same.

    Correct. This doesn’t contradict the idea that Germany is Russia’s Trojan horse in Europe.

    In contrast to Poland or the Baltics, Germany has much more to fear from America than Russia.

    If the USA were led by a Clinton or a Kamala, allying with Merkel and pushing massive refugee settlement, than yes. I am not sure that this is true of a Trump-led USA.

    America and East Europeans demanding German ‘solidarity’ on Russian matters doesn’t make much sense

    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP


    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.
     
    A few months ago you told us how it was a great idea for Poland to demand WW2 reparations from Germany and how all the pre-war German territory Poles got just wasn't enough.
    Sorry, from a German point of view it would be very stupid to get dragged into East Europeans' revanchist projects against Russia. All the more so since there isn't even a credible Russian threat against Poland either (Baltic states may be another matter).

    Replies: @songbird, @AP

    , @Hyperborean
    @AP


    If the USA were led by a Clinton or a Kamala, allying with Merkel and pushing massive refugee settlement, than yes. I am not sure that this is true of a Trump-led USA.
     
    As Mitleser linked to a couple of threads back, the US Ambassador to Germany Richard Grenfell has been cozying up to CDU cuckservatives who are just as bad as Merkel, except gayer and more supportive of American foreign policy.

    And this is under the Trump administration, I doubt the next guys in charge will be better.


    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.
     
    While Berlin is hardly blameless what with its interference in Poland's internal affairs and the disrespect shown to America, I don't see how the US or Poland can expect to be listened to nicely after all the bashing they give Germany over 'muh trade' or 'muh reparations'.
  161. @The Big Red Scary
    @AP


    Ukrainian villages really are much cleaner and better put together than Russian ones
     
    I would believe this for Galicia (for the historical reasons you’ve discussed before), but it is definitely at odds with my (limited) experiences of central Ukraine.

    Replies: @AP

    Galician ones are cleanest and neatest of all. But the ones in central Ukraine were still neater than the ones I saw in Russia. The villages outside Moscow populated by locals rather than dacha-owners (dacha areas are very nice) were awful.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @AP

    My samples, of both Russian and Ukrainian villages, might be non-representative. Can you be more specific about the villages you saw outside Moscow? For example, on which elektrichka line or which region? (Sorry that I myself can't be more specific about my Russian sample. I think I'm the unique American in a twenty kilometre radius of my house, so I don't want to give more details.)

    Replies: @AP

    , @Miro23
    @AP


    Galician ones are cleanest and neatest of all. But the ones in central Ukraine were still neater than the ones I saw in Russia. The villages outside Moscow populated by locals rather than dacha-owners (dacha areas are very nice) were awful.
     
    Say thank you to the Bolsheviks - any villager with initiative or minimal success was an Enemy of the People (Kulak) and removed. What's left are the alcoholic descendants of the lazy low initiative crowd in their collapsed buildings.

    Without going into the rights of wrongs of South African farming and apartheid, once the White farmers are removed these farms are probably going to look the same.

    Also, it's more than a question of neatness. Russian villages outside Moscow are just collapsed hopeless cases . In central Ukraine they're better organized in a practical way focused on producing food, whereas in Galicia there are also some aesthetic considerations (flowers/shrubs). Go further west to Poland and a railway journey from Krakow to Zakopane reveals miles of neat flower gardens, or go north to the Baltics, and rural areas have a true level of perfection.

  162. @Philip Owen
    In 2013, an Afrikaner preacher asked me to look into resettlement in Russia. He travelled all over the Transvaal preaching so had a large congregation.

    I looked at the project for them. Foolishly I disclosed my research unlike these cynical sharks. Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit. This is not suitable if you wish to hand on your farm to future generations. Show me a farmer that doesn't. Just now, the Afrikaners want a place to put their second sons. They want to hold on to RSA citizenship. That said, they are happy to go to Australia and Argentina. Russia is too alien.

    Georgia has previously hosted such a delegation.

    The southern Black Earth is very suitable for them. They are good at dry land farming which is needed in semi-desert like Volgograd.

    Someone is ripping them off by bringing them to Russia without going through the legal issues (or I am stupid not to gouge my clients, also probably true).

    In Georgia, the land is different. It is not suitable for Veldt farming.

    Russia offers huge interest free loans for incoming corporate farmers in added value farming (milk, pigs, beef & beef & beef) but this is for corporates who will mine rather than tend the land for 49 years. Asian firms are prominent in this, indeed so much so, one questions just how much incentive they have been offered, especially in dairy.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Daniel Chieh, @Dmitry, @notanon

    I looked at the project for them. Foolishly I disclosed my research unlike these cynical sharks. Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit.

    very important point

    Russia should copy a version of what England did after the Black Death – keep the land state owned but sub-divide into family farms with 100 year leases, renewable by a child of the original lease holder for another 100 – that way people put the work in the improve the farm cos they know their kids will benefit but the land can’t be sold off to a foreign agri-business
    .

    • Replies: @Liza
    @notanon

    "Keep the land state owned". That's the system everywhere, though we call it private land ownership or whatever. Just try not paying your land taxes and see what happens. The state takes it and sells it to another farmer (or general landowner) who also is laboring under the delusion that he "owns" his property.

    Replies: @notanon

  163. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @Hyperborean


    But Germany’s and various East European nations’ national interests are not necessarily the same.
     
    Correct. This doesn't contradict the idea that Germany is Russia's Trojan horse in Europe.

    In contrast to Poland or the Baltics, Germany has much more to fear from America than Russia.
     
    If the USA were led by a Clinton or a Kamala, allying with Merkel and pushing massive refugee settlement, than yes. I am not sure that this is true of a Trump-led USA.

    America and East Europeans demanding German ‘solidarity’ on Russian matters doesn’t make much sense
     
    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Hyperborean

    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.

    A few months ago you told us how it was a great idea for Poland to demand WW2 reparations from Germany and how all the pre-war German territory Poles got just wasn’t enough.
    Sorry, from a German point of view it would be very stupid to get dragged into East Europeans’ revanchist projects against Russia. All the more so since there isn’t even a credible Russian threat against Poland either (Baltic states may be another matter).

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    A few months ago you told us how it was a great idea for Poland to demand WW2 reparations from Germany
     
    That was a great anti-Merkel rhetorical trick. Actually seeking them would be going to far, but at the level of rhetoric, current globalist situation - it is laudable.
    , @AP
    @German_reader


    A few months ago you told us how it was a great idea for Poland to demand WW2 reparations from Germany and how all the pre-war German territory Poles got just wasn’t enough.
     
    I was speaking from the US perspective.

    But sure, if Germany wants to pretend to be Poland's partner, this is also not good.
  164. @Hyperborean
    @Felix Keverich

    I haven't met any Ukrainians but I doubt their work ethics are much different from Russians, Byelorussians or Lithuanians.

    I think the Ukraine's post-Soviet economic problems are due to oligarchs there not figuring out that a lifetime's supply of eggs are more valuable than one chicken dinner.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich

    It’s not like these Ukrainian oligarchs came from Mars, you know, they are flesh and blood of the “Ukrainian nation”.

    You may not fully appreciate just how profoundly disfunctional the country is, trailing Egypt in per capita GDP.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Felix Keverich


    It’s not like these Ukrainian oligarchs came from Mars, you know, they are flesh and blood of the “Ukrainian nation”.
     
    They were the local Sovok elite. Yanukovich wasn't even an ethnic Ukrainian.

    You may not fully appreciate just how profoundly disfunctional the country is, trailing Egypt in per capita GDP
     
    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @Gerard2

  165. @Hyperborean
    @anonymous coward

    It is a shame Spain got so much of the Americas. I think the Latin American region would be more interesting culturally today if countries like France and the Netherlands had left a larger cultural legacy there.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @songbird

    It’s curious that France has maintained it’s link.

    A pity some of these uninhabited islands like Reunion were not settled entirely by whites. It would have been interesting to have more geographic isolates.

    I wonder what Haiti would be like, without French radio. I’ve heard that’s how they refine their French.

  166. @German_reader
    @AP


    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.
     
    A few months ago you told us how it was a great idea for Poland to demand WW2 reparations from Germany and how all the pre-war German territory Poles got just wasn't enough.
    Sorry, from a German point of view it would be very stupid to get dragged into East Europeans' revanchist projects against Russia. All the more so since there isn't even a credible Russian threat against Poland either (Baltic states may be another matter).

    Replies: @songbird, @AP

    A few months ago you told us how it was a great idea for Poland to demand WW2 reparations from Germany

    That was a great anti-Merkel rhetorical trick. Actually seeking them would be going to far, but at the level of rhetoric, current globalist situation – it is laudable.

  167. @German_reader
    @AP


    We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France
     
    That may still have been true in the 1980s (but back then the Europeans also spent more on defense and had conscription-based armies), but today it's a ridiculous claim. US security policy for the past 30 years has been about striving for permanent global American hegemony and Mideast wars that have killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions...none of that has any connection to German interests, so sorry, no reason to be grateful for that.
    A new Cold war-style confrontation with Russia also isn't in German interests which aren't and shouldn't be identical to those of Poles, US nationalists and various East European immigrant communities in the US with grievances against Russia.
    That being said, Germany should certainly spend much more on its armed forces, it's a necessary precondition for telling American forces to finally leave Germany.

    Replies: @songbird

    NATO is poised to become a diversity-Warsaw Pact. I’d advise all to leave.

  168. @Philip Owen
    @Okechukwu

    White Genocide is a very strong idea in Russia, except that they call it Russian genocide and add socialism to the list of enemies. 10's and 10's of millions of Russians did die in the 20th C and they look for someone to blame but they also borrow the vocabulary and ideology from the US Far Right.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Okechukwu

    I wouldn’t quite call it a “very strong” idea, but yes, we Russian nationalists are doing a lot to make that a reality.

    In my ideal future there will be Museums of the Russian Genocide beneath what used to be Lenin’s Mausoleum and in cities across the world. Much like how the Jewish Museum & Center of Tolerance graces Moscow today – so lame to tell the story of others’ holocausts, but not your own.

    • LOL: Yevardian
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Anatoly Karlin


    and in cities across the world
     
    Why should other countries care about that?
    Seems very unlikely.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @Philip Owen
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Families that did well in the USSR but haven't found opportunity in the Russian Federation seem to be strong believers in this. Rather similar to Germany in the early 30's.

    , @Rattus Norwegius
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Why don't you open such a museum or museums in Russia?

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  169. Sounds like a good idea. They could be like Volga Germans. I have heard that lots of Koreans have also taken up farming in European Russia.

    It will be interesting to see if the Boers can handle the climate. I know a couple of Saffas who skipped out of England after their first winter. Western Australia seems to be their preferred destination.

  170. @Stan d Mute
    @Hyperborean

    IF I believed it were possible that the lesson may be learned (and learned well) with an exodus of white South Africans, I’d agree with you. But I guess I’m more pessimistic (and perhaps thus more realist). I’m not even sure the Boers themselves have learned the lesson.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Boers are not “based” in my experience, but I also question how realistic the 4chan expectations are. They are just people trying to survive; they tend to be extremely cynical if there is any specific personality trait I would associate with them, often perceiving the entire world as having betrayed them, including their own elite.

    Time in Africa seems to have impacted their character: in the positive, to be fairly daring and having a specific appreciation for the moment and the present. In the negative, for becoming more comfortable with corruption and dysfunction(esp. homocide) in society.

    They were fond of Russian criminal organizations in SA, which I can understand as those are at least more reliable than the chaos elsewhere; hopefully this does not extend within the borders of Russia, though.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    @Daniel Chieh


    Boers are not “based” in my experience
     
    Where I may be guilty of overstatement, you are guilty of understatement.

    Boers are the very definition of ‘stupid’. “Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor, what could go wrong? Our Faith will protect us...”

    Replies: @notanon, @Truth, @songbird

    , @songbird
    @Daniel Chieh


    Boers are not “based”
     
    Only the odd one. It's hard when you are <10%, or even if you are an expat, living abroad to speak the truth. I hear many speak of the "thugs" that took over while, denying it is a black or white thing. I'd be curious to know what they really think.

    It is quite disturbing to see the full-on South African white SJWs that exist. Especially, the Nordic, teenage women, who seem to have embraced whatever the prevailing situation is.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Rogue

  171. AP says:
    @German_reader
    @AP


    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.
     
    A few months ago you told us how it was a great idea for Poland to demand WW2 reparations from Germany and how all the pre-war German territory Poles got just wasn't enough.
    Sorry, from a German point of view it would be very stupid to get dragged into East Europeans' revanchist projects against Russia. All the more so since there isn't even a credible Russian threat against Poland either (Baltic states may be another matter).

    Replies: @songbird, @AP

    A few months ago you told us how it was a great idea for Poland to demand WW2 reparations from Germany and how all the pre-war German territory Poles got just wasn’t enough.

    I was speaking from the US perspective.

    But sure, if Germany wants to pretend to be Poland’s partner, this is also not good.

  172. German_reader says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    @Philip Owen

    I wouldn't quite call it a "very strong" idea, but yes, we Russian nationalists are doing a lot to make that a reality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7yal9Gat0

    In my ideal future there will be Museums of the Russian Genocide beneath what used to be Lenin's Mausoleum and in cities across the world. Much like how the Jewish Museum & Center of Tolerance graces Moscow today - so lame to tell the story of others' holocausts, but not your own.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Philip Owen, @Rattus Norwegius

    and in cities across the world

    Why should other countries care about that?
    Seems very unlikely.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    Well, the Jews have financed Holocaust museums in cities all around the world. I want to learn from the Jews, since I'm one of the biggest philo-Semites around (Glossy would confirm).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry, @iffen

  173. @iffen
    @Philip Owen

    That’s happened in the last 5 years. Can’t be given away now. I’ve tried.

    I don't understand how these monumental changes take place so quickly. Not only that, I haven't read anyone who really understands how it happens.

    Replies: @notanon

    I don’t understand how these monumental changes take place so quickly.

    the majority of people evolved to be conformist cos it made evolutionary sense

    (i.e. if previous generations survived by doing x then carry on doing x)

    what they conform to is decided by the dominant moral authority which used to be church, parents, village elders etc

    however the current dominant moral authority in the West is the TV

    (which is how the West became culturally poisoned)

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @notanon

    Fur is out.

    Locally sourced goat cheese is in.

    It all can feel extremely random and silly at times. But its interesting seeing the social pressure, especially among women; I remember when we were dating, my wife would take the moment to inform me that everything leather I had was made from "murder" and anything that smelled of leather "smelled of murdered cows."

    Same goes for a number of other women I knew, even in the 2000s(I'm an artist and I would sometimes draw a woman in furs; this would invariably attract criticism for "encouraging fur use"). Internet virtue signaling, I guess; the caring principle, magnified by social media.

  174. @Mr. Hack
    @anonymous coward

    Both of my parents were Ukrainians, therefore, I had plenty of opportunity to observe their work ethic firsthand. Many of my neighbors and friends in the community that I lived in were Ukrainians too, professional people, businessmen, and responsible workers of the factories of a bygone era.

    So I'm wondering, exactly what ethnic group spawned a useless fabricator of lies and unsubstantiated malicious characterizations? If' I were you, I'd go back and slide beneath the rock that you came from!

    Replies: @AP, @anonymous coward

    Both of my parents were Ukrainians, therefore, I had plenty of opportunity to observe their work ethic firsthand.

    I’m guessing Galician, not Ukrainian.

    Many of my neighbors and friends in the community that I lived in were Ukrainians too, professional people, businessmen, and responsible workers of the factories of a bygone era.

    Yeah, “Ukrainian”, just like the “Irish” residents of Boston. Don’t make me laugh.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @anonymous coward

    Neither of my parents were from Galicia, although a lot of my neighbors were. The Ukrainian community did a much better job of preserving its language and culture than the Irish Americans, who had been almost completely assimilated generations earlier: Ukrainian churches, a credit union, Ukrainian Cultural center, choirs, sports teams, dancing troupes etc; etc;

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  175. @AP
    OT but Trump is right about Germany and Russia:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/angela-merkel-hits-back-at-donald-trump-at-nato-summit/ar-AAzUDvJ?ocid=spartanntp

    This summit is shaping up to be the most divisive in NATO’s 69-year history. Normally, NATO summits are mostly fixed in advance and proceed in an orderly fashion. Trump’s first words signaled this one was not going to be like that.

    He complained that German politicians had been working for Russian energy companies after leaving politics and said this too was inappropriate. Germany was totally controlled by Russia, Trump said.

    With Stoltenberg looking on uncomfortably throughout, the US president was unrelenting. “I think it is very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia,” Trump said. “We are supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions dollars a year to Russia.

    “We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France, we are protecting all of these countries and then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with Russia where they are paying billions of dollars into the coffers of Russia. I think that is very inappropriate.”

    He added: “It should never have been allowed to happen. Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they will be getting 60-70% of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline.

    “You tell me if that’s appropriate because I think it’s not. On top of that Germany is just paying just a little bit over 1% [of GDP on NATO defense contributions] whereas the United States is paying 4.2% of a much larger GDP. So I think that’s inappropriate also.”

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @German_reader, @Anatoly Karlin, @Okechukwu, @dfordoom

    At the end of the day, Trump is still driving a huge wedge into the NATO alliance. It will of course be an extremely bad outcome for Russia if he actually does somehow manage to shoehorn France and Germany into the Polish/Baltic vision of what the European security posture should look like (everyone spending at least 2% of GDP on the military, forward bases near the Russian border, continued strong American military presence, cancellation of Nord Stream 2, more and more overt support for the Ukraine, etc.), but considering all the issues he’s been triggering them on – Iran, climate change, trade – that seems unlikely.

    • Agree: AP
  176. @German_reader
    @Anatoly Karlin


    and in cities across the world
     
    Why should other countries care about that?
    Seems very unlikely.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Well, the Jews have financed Holocaust museums in cities all around the world. I want to learn from the Jews, since I’m one of the biggest philo-Semites around (Glossy would confirm).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I guess you'll need to create your own movie industry then and make movies about Russian suffering. Shouldn't be too difficult about WW2, one could just imitate the template of Holocaust movies.
    I wonder though how a Russian nationalist movie about the "genocide" of the 1990s would look like.

    Replies: @DFH, @notanon

    , @Dmitry
    @Anatoly Karlin


    I want to learn from the Jews, since
     
    Israel settles some South African immigrants in the occupied West Bank.

    It looks like farming ones, not educated skilled professionals that UK receives.

    They became religious spontaneously, and they seem in the West Bank in dangerous areas with the most high conflict with Arab populations.

    I guess an equivalent - settling Boars in the DNR?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHP_KS5FenU
    , @iffen
    @Anatoly Karlin

    In major cities of the Western world: Ukrainian supporters and Russian nationalists duke it out.

    Ukrainians win: Holodomor Museum

    Russkies win: Anti-Bolshevik Museum

  177. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich
    @Hyperborean

    It's not like these Ukrainian oligarchs came from Mars, you know, they are flesh and blood of the "Ukrainian nation".

    You may not fully appreciate just how profoundly disfunctional the country is, trailing Egypt in per capita GDP.

    Replies: @AP

    It’s not like these Ukrainian oligarchs came from Mars, you know, they are flesh and blood of the “Ukrainian nation”.

    They were the local Sovok elite. Yanukovich wasn’t even an ethnic Ukrainian.

    You may not fully appreciate just how profoundly disfunctional the country is, trailing Egypt in per capita GDP

    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    @AP


    Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.
     
    Slava Ukraini? Nope!

    In 2017 the country trailed Algeria ($4,123), Tunisia ($3,491), Morocco ($3,007) and Sudan ($2,899). Sudan!

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EG-UA-DZ-MA-TN-SD

    The Ukraine seems have fallen behind North Africa at this point, and you know, the only region worse than North Africa is...Sub-Sahara Africa. They will be your peers from now on.

    Replies: @AP, @Polish Perspective

    , @Gerard2
    @AP


    They were the local Sovok elite
     
    LOL!!....Bizarre retard comment......the country was a 100% absorbed into the Soviet Union state with 90% of the country wanting to keep it that way at time of dissolution and 95% wanting unity with Russia well into the 90's you dumb prick. Saying nobody would be Soviet ( whatever your mononic statement means when that is the era the people are living through you thick POS) is like saying an elephant without a trunk. If you take out "Soviet" people, we are left with disgusting State Department cunts who fled, helped by the CIA in the 1940's/50's and have no idea of the country you cretin.

    At least 20 African countries are richer than 3rd world shithole Ukraine you idiot. All the South American countries, plenty of the poor south Asian ones too.if you go from your Valtsmans, Kolomoiskys, Pinchuks and so on you have a whole layer of "Ukrainian" oligarchs you inbred prick.

    Interestingly enough for a country with 0.1% muslims in it- it's richest man and it's starter of this fake revolution at Maidan....are both Muslims.

    We've seen how Banderovtsky, state-department manufactured scumbag "Ukrainians" do running the country....they steal the most of anyone, get bored and bugger off back to America of Canada ( Yats being a prime example) leaving the country poorer and stupider from the previous failed, pointless and fake "revolution"

    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.
     
    LOL...more time-wasting cretinous lies......Egypts is $3500+ you idiot and much richer than African-like Ukraine....as are Nagorno-Karabakh, Armenia itself, Georgia......and those country don't have the level of administrative incompetence, huge healthcare problems and poverty of Ukraine

    Replies: @AP

  178. @notanon
    @iffen


    I don’t understand how these monumental changes take place so quickly.
     
    the majority of people evolved to be conformist cos it made evolutionary sense

    (i.e. if previous generations survived by doing x then carry on doing x)

    what they conform to is decided by the dominant moral authority which used to be church, parents, village elders etc

    however the current dominant moral authority in the West is the TV

    (which is how the West became culturally poisoned)

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Fur is out.

    Locally sourced goat cheese is in.

    It all can feel extremely random and silly at times. But its interesting seeing the social pressure, especially among women; I remember when we were dating, my wife would take the moment to inform me that everything leather I had was made from “murder” and anything that smelled of leather “smelled of murdered cows.”

    Same goes for a number of other women I knew, even in the 2000s(I’m an artist and I would sometimes draw a woman in furs; this would invariably attract criticism for “encouraging fur use”). Internet virtue signaling, I guess; the caring principle, magnified by social media.

  179. @AP
    @The Big Red Scary

    Galician ones are cleanest and neatest of all. But the ones in central Ukraine were still neater than the ones I saw in Russia. The villages outside Moscow populated by locals rather than dacha-owners (dacha areas are very nice) were awful.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Miro23

    My samples, of both Russian and Ukrainian villages, might be non-representative. Can you be more specific about the villages you saw outside Moscow? For example, on which elektrichka line or which region? (Sorry that I myself can’t be more specific about my Russian sample. I think I’m the unique American in a twenty kilometre radius of my house, so I don’t want to give more details.)

    • Replies: @AP
    @The Big Red Scary

    I don't want to give the name of the place where our dacha is, I'll just say east of the city. Lots of garbage, visible from the electrichka, strewn around the villages that don't have dachas. Granted, I was last took the electrichka to the dacha in 2013.

    In central Ukraine I was in Zhytomir oblast. Villages weren't pretty (other than some churches), but they were clean. In Galicia they were like German or Polish villages, except with cheaper/poorer cars, even some horse-driven carts.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

  180. @Mr. Hack
    @AP


    According to official figures, Russia’s economy experienced a minor but surprising contraction in November. The country’s Ministry of Economic Development observed that gross domestic product (GDP) shrank by 0.3 percent from November 2016 levels, which stands in stark contrast to the 1.5-percent growth that was being predicted by economists. Weak industrial output, which fell by 3.6 percent on an annual basis, was held chiefly responsible for the disappointing performance
     
    .

    This is current information, as of May 2018. And clearly the vast majority of Russia's economy is still directly tied to commodity prices, a very dangerous situation for the future. So, if not plummeting then I guess 'stagnating' might be a better term.

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/russias-economic-recovery/

    Replies: @AP, @Marcus

    Oil prices probably aren’t going to collapse a la 2014 in the near future, Russia and the Saudis have made nice

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Marcus

    Can't agree. The exchange rate hasn't budged. The Forex markets don't think the oil price rise is more than a ramp by a cartel. No substance to it. It is artificial restriction of supply rather than real demand. China's workforce peaked 7 years ago. When the price goes, it will go as quickly as before.

    , @Okechukwu
    @Marcus


    Oil prices probably aren’t going to collapse a la 2014 in the near future, Russia and the Saudis have made nice
     
    US producers control the price of all, not the Saudis or Russians. It's a cyclical roller coaster. Price goes up and US producers jump in, uncap wells and start producing again. The market becomes over-supplied and price collapses again. US producers cap wells again and bide their time until the next round.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Philip Owen

  181. @Felix Keverich
    @Dmitry

    Good for them, I say we should let somebody else pick up this "prize". Diversity is always universally a bad thing even if it comes in the form of conservative white Protestants. Culturally alien minorities are TROUBLE.

    Replies: @notanon, @Dmitry

    Culturally alien minorities are TROUBLE.

    i think this is generally true even if the minority in question has net positive qualities hence why i feel it’s better done if done in specific under populated regions.

  182. German_reader says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    Well, the Jews have financed Holocaust museums in cities all around the world. I want to learn from the Jews, since I'm one of the biggest philo-Semites around (Glossy would confirm).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry, @iffen

    I guess you’ll need to create your own movie industry then and make movies about Russian suffering. Shouldn’t be too difficult about WW2, one could just imitate the template of Holocaust movies.
    I wonder though how a Russian nationalist movie about the “genocide” of the 1990s would look like.

    • Replies: @DFH
    @German_reader


    I guess you’ll need to create your own movie industry then and make movies about Russian suffering
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Come_and_See_%28poster%29.jpg

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @notanon
    @German_reader

    a nationalist movie on the opiode epidemic in the USA - which is more or less the equivalent of what happened in Russia - could have a pair of initially honest local journalists investigating the problem, figuring out the cause was a combination of off-shoring leading to mass hopelessness in the rust belt towns combined with sinister opiode suppliers who know it is killing thousands but don't care cos they are making a fortune fromit so both the suppliers and the people making billions from off-shoring want the mass die-off covered up - and then the two journalists get corrupted into joining in the cover up with an offer of big-time media jobs in the capital - or for a less honest version maybe one of the journalists refuses to be corrupted and gets murdered while the corrupt one goes off to be a big-time journalist in the capital.

    (although i don't know if the Russian version of this was covered up at the time.)

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

  183. AP says:
    @The Big Red Scary
    @AP

    My samples, of both Russian and Ukrainian villages, might be non-representative. Can you be more specific about the villages you saw outside Moscow? For example, on which elektrichka line or which region? (Sorry that I myself can't be more specific about my Russian sample. I think I'm the unique American in a twenty kilometre radius of my house, so I don't want to give more details.)

    Replies: @AP

    I don’t want to give the name of the place where our dacha is, I’ll just say east of the city. Lots of garbage, visible from the electrichka, strewn around the villages that don’t have dachas. Granted, I was last took the electrichka to the dacha in 2013.

    In central Ukraine I was in Zhytomir oblast. Villages weren’t pretty (other than some churches), but they were clean. In Galicia they were like German or Polish villages, except with cheaper/poorer cars, even some horse-driven carts.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @AP


    Lots of garbage, visible from the electrichka, strewn around the villages that don’t have dachas.
     
    This can be a problem, but is improving, at least in some places. In my village, we have an energetic "deputat" who organizes subbotniki to clean up beer cans and candy wrappers in the parks, and will gather up the boys to clean up bigger problems that people call in. Already in the few years I've been living here, I've seen marked improvements. Of course, my village might be special. But in the not-so-nice provincial city where my parents-in-law live, some pensioners began gardening in front of the hideous commie blocks. It caught on and spread to nearby blocks. All it takes is someone to show others it can be done.

    Anyhow, I'm glad to hear that Ukrainian villages are not too demoralized, and I wish them the best for the future.
  184. The US should be willing to take in some and I would be happy to assist as I have in the past with refugees from other countries – including some from the old Soviet Union.

  185. @Dmitry
    @Felix Keverich

    Probably you are correct, about the ones who be interested to come. Farmers? But maybe they're successful farmers (South Africa was historically known for farming achievements).

    In general, South African immigrants have a reputation around the world as a kind of elite immigration strata.

    Recall, South Africa was a country which developed nuclear weapons, won Nobel prizes in science, had elite universities, a food surplus, and a successful economy, but as a result of the chaotic political and crime situation in the 1990s, its best demographics want to emigrate.

    I was reading a article recently about the UK, has a shortage of computer science graduates, and as a result it is now receiving thousands of computer scientists from South Africa.

    -

    Australia is importing them to boost its economy.

    Articles like:


    Calling South African engineers: Australia wants you

    If you’ve ever thought about moving to Australia, you need to know that the land down under is desperate for South African engineers.
     
    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/calling-south-african-engineers-australia-wants-you/

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @Marcus

    A South African doctor performed the world’s first successful heart transplant

  186. @Marcus
    @Zhukov1945

    No.... It means that trying to equate living in a violent country with being subject to genocide looks hysterical. Also it's a fool's errand to try to garner sympathy from the outside world, which will never forgive Afrikaners for apartheid. They need to either leave or try to carve out their own state.

    Replies: @notanon

    It means that trying to equate living in a violent country with being subject to genocide looks hysterical.

    it’s the western media’s cover-up of all forms of anti-white violence which reinforces the “white genocide” meme.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @notanon

    True, also their attitude that whites there still deserve to be punished (I remember liberals essentially saying Rhodesian farmers got what they deserved).

  187. @Daniel Chieh
    @Stan d Mute

    Boers are not "based" in my experience, but I also question how realistic the 4chan expectations are. They are just people trying to survive; they tend to be extremely cynical if there is any specific personality trait I would associate with them, often perceiving the entire world as having betrayed them, including their own elite.

    Time in Africa seems to have impacted their character: in the positive, to be fairly daring and having a specific appreciation for the moment and the present. In the negative, for becoming more comfortable with corruption and dysfunction(esp. homocide) in society.

    They were fond of Russian criminal organizations in SA, which I can understand as those are at least more reliable than the chaos elsewhere; hopefully this does not extend within the borders of Russia, though.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @songbird

    Boers are not “based” in my experience

    Where I may be guilty of overstatement, you are guilty of understatement.

    Boers are the very definition of ‘stupid’. “Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor, what could go wrong? Our Faith will protect us…”

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Stan d Mute


    Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor,

     

    not what happened

    it was the discovery of gold and diamonds that doomed the Boers as mining is where the demand for large amounts of cheap labor came from (ultimately the blame for this lies with the London branch of the banking mafia).

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    , @Truth
    @Stan d Mute


    “Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor, what could go wrong? Our Faith will protect us…”
     
    And for 350 years, Stanley, it did.
    , @songbird
    @Stan d Mute


    Our Faith will protect us…
     
    Might have been true before the invention of the AK-47 and easy-carry mortars.

    All things considered, they might have been better landing after tractors were invented. The Western Cape would have still been practically uninhabited. And numbers of blacks elsewhere would have been significantly lower without white agriculture.

    Alternate timeline: WWI never breaks out. European countries cooperate to send their surplus pop to South Africa.
  188. @Hyperborean
    @Philip Owen

    Sorry, could you please clarify your point? Are you saying the BBC was biased in favour of Leave or in favour of Remain?

    Replies: @notanon, @Philip Owen

    the BBC is

    1) 100% pro-EU
    2) 100% pro open borders

    i think he’s saying the BBC’s guilt-tripping campaign over “refugees” to promote open borders had the unintended consequence of helping the Brexit vote – which is probably true

  189. @German_reader
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I guess you'll need to create your own movie industry then and make movies about Russian suffering. Shouldn't be too difficult about WW2, one could just imitate the template of Holocaust movies.
    I wonder though how a Russian nationalist movie about the "genocide" of the 1990s would look like.

    Replies: @DFH, @notanon

    I guess you’ll need to create your own movie industry then and make movies about Russian suffering

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @DFH

    I know, I should have mentioned that...but movies about German crimes would be the easy part (there's also an export market for that). I just wondered how Russian nationalists would deal with the "genocides" of Bolshevism and of liberalism in the 1990s.

    Replies: @Toronto Russian, @iffen

  190. @Stan d Mute
    @Daniel Chieh


    Boers are not “based” in my experience
     
    Where I may be guilty of overstatement, you are guilty of understatement.

    Boers are the very definition of ‘stupid’. “Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor, what could go wrong? Our Faith will protect us...”

    Replies: @notanon, @Truth, @songbird

    Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor,

    not what happened

    it was the discovery of gold and diamonds that doomed the Boers as mining is where the demand for large amounts of cheap labor came from (ultimately the blame for this lies with the London branch of the banking mafia).

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @notanon

    They also assumed that they would stay in control, which was not a terribly unreasonable expectation at the time, I would say.

  191. German_reader says:
    @DFH
    @German_reader


    I guess you’ll need to create your own movie industry then and make movies about Russian suffering
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Come_and_See_%28poster%29.jpg

    Replies: @German_reader

    I know, I should have mentioned that…but movies about German crimes would be the easy part (there’s also an export market for that). I just wondered how Russian nationalists would deal with the “genocides” of Bolshevism and of liberalism in the 1990s.

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian
    @German_reader


    I just wondered how Russian nationalists would deal with the “genocides” of Bolshevism and of liberalism in the 1990s.
     
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Upon_a_Time_There_Lived_a_Simple_Woman
    "In an interview with Larisa Malyukova for Novaya Gazeta in 2008, Smirnov tackled the idea of nationalism for his planned film: "I think that this motion picture should not contain a sugarcoated idealization of the nation, nor scandalous disclosures. There are pros and cons. But most importantly, it seems to me that the film has such a love for Russia in it, but not a patriot’s fanfares. Love as a synonym for pain."
    , @iffen
    @German_reader

    I just wondered how Russian nationalists would deal with the “genocides” of Bolshevism and of liberalism

    1) Obviously people who are not Jewish can make good movies, but the disproportionate representation of Jews in the industry will be in evidence in the films produced.

    2) They seem to have perfected, better, or as well as any group, the ability to fight it out and still remain unified at the end. After all, they fought it out with plenty of deaths as recently as the founding of Israel. (The Debt is a great movie and is full of introspection and moral and existential questions.)

    3) The unity is lacking for Russians. How could you have epics on WWII if many of your target audience hold the beliefs that AK does about the GPW? (Dr. Zhivago is a hell of a movie, so obviously it can be done.)


    They are good at making movies and they are good at keeping a coherent vision of a sort that ties most of them together in a strong, but not stifling way.

  192. The Right in France has noticed this story as well. Good, I hope the news spreads far and wide that the Russians care more about preserving Europe and the European diaspora than do “our” elite:

  193. @Felix Keverich
    @Dmitry

    Good for them, I say we should let somebody else pick up this "prize". Diversity is always universally a bad thing even if it comes in the form of conservative white Protestants. Culturally alien minorities are TROUBLE.

    Replies: @notanon, @Dmitry

    Perhaps, you are right.

    To the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada – they arrive mainly as skilled professionals, and do not keep separate from the main population.

    Cultural distance with those countries probably low already? (English was an official language of South African until 1925).

    It raises level of human capital in those countries (around 1% of the total UK population are South African immigrants) without adding visibly an separate community to the countries.

  194. @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    There is a big difference between stagnating and plummeting. But Russia's slight growth isn't even stagnating.

    I was in Moscow this spring and I saw no evidence of economic hardship; no one I knew experienced it, and it wasn't evident by the look of the streets (busy stores and restaurants, etc.). Devaluation of the ruble made things a bit cheaper. Same experience in Lviv when I visited last summer, just things were even cheaper.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I was in Moscow this spring and I saw no evidence of economic hardship; no one I knew experienced it, and it wasn’t evident by the look of the streets (busy stores and restaurants, etc.).

    Remember a couple of weeks back when I told you about my side trip to the magnificent Museum Anthropolgia in Mexico City? During my subway trip from the airport to the museum I passed the outskirts of some rough neighborhoods, but by and large I didn’t see anything that was horrendous. Yet we know that these neighborhoods contain some incredible filth and squalor. A large area around the museum was very nice, including a zoo and many other museums too. Very nice houses and apartment buildings were also to be seen. I think that you possibly could have had similar experiences in Moscow too (besides, Moscow isn’t all of Russia)? The article that I cited was based on some good solid statistical data that you need to take into consideration too along with your own possibly stinted or restricted personal views.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes it’s accurate to say, economically Moscow is not normal for Russia.

    The economic level of Moscow, is the same as rich areas of Western Europe (in per capita terms).

    Statistically, Moscow’s economic level is not less than an economically wealthy area of Germany.

    -

    Lvov on the other hand, is far poorer than any area in Western Europe, and maybe equivalent in average incomes to the poorest of Russia's cities with over a million cities - perhaps the average income level is similar to Volgograd. (We can probably research this information if you want).

    Replies: @AP, @Gerard2

  195. @AP
    @Felix Keverich


    It’s not like these Ukrainian oligarchs came from Mars, you know, they are flesh and blood of the “Ukrainian nation”.
     
    They were the local Sovok elite. Yanukovich wasn't even an ethnic Ukrainian.

    You may not fully appreciate just how profoundly disfunctional the country is, trailing Egypt in per capita GDP
     
    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @Gerard2

    Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    Slava Ukraini? Nope!

    In 2017 the country trailed Algeria ($4,123), Tunisia ($3,491), Morocco ($3,007) and Sudan ($2,899). Sudan!

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EG-UA-DZ-MA-TN-SD

    The Ukraine seems have fallen behind North Africa at this point, and you know, the only region worse than North Africa is…Sub-Sahara Africa. They will be your peers from now on.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Felix Keverich


    In 2017 the country trailed Algeria ($4,123), Tunisia ($3,491), Morocco ($3,007) and Sudan ($2,899). Sudan!
     
    Sudan no longer includes the sub-Saharan parts and has some oil.

    Ukraine is ahead of Egypt, so within North African or Latin American levels in terms of nominal GDP, not close to sub-Saharan Africa (unless you mean oil states, one of which is even richer than Russia per capita). In PPP terms it is ahead of Morocco.

    Of course such comparisons are silly. Ukraine has a European, not third world, level of income equality. The richest 20% if Ukrainians have 4 times as much income as the poorest 20%, same as Slovakia or Sweden. In Algeria they have 6 times as much and in Paraguay 26 times as much.

    It's not a land of shanty towns as in Latin America. More realistic is to compare it to other post-commie states. In per capita GDP PPP terms, it is a little behind Georgia and Armenia, and well ahead of Moldova, and Central Asia (other than Kazakhstan).

    Replies: @Marcus

    , @Polish Perspective
    @Felix Keverich


    the only region worse than North Africa is…Sub-Sahara Africa. They will be your peers from now on.
     
    Ukraine's woes are real but they are fundamentally rooted in artificial constraints.
    There is a great deal of economic research on this, there are even entire schools of thought devoted to this topic. I'm not talking about development economics per se, but rather a specific approach to it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_economics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_institutional_economics

    Institutional factors are important, even for those of us who accept a race-realist framework. Ukraine - and North Korea - are the two great examples of this. That said, the potential is definitely there for both countries once they reform their societies. The same can not be said for the fossil-free Arab states due to genetic constraints (here I break with the institutionalist school, which demands an allegience to tabula rasa and similar nonsense. I prefer a combined approach).

    On a sidenote, I will express my surprise at your seeming pathological hatred against Ukraine which borders on the obsessive. A prosperous Ukraine will be good for Russia, it will increase Ukraine/Russia trade and stabilise the region. Rich people have a lot more to lose. You seem to have a burning desire to see Ukraine poor and destabilised forever. This may please your ego but it is not a smart long-term play. I do not see what you gain from your hatred towards Ukraine. It all seems petty and silly to me.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich

  196. @notanon
    @Stan d Mute


    Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor,

     

    not what happened

    it was the discovery of gold and diamonds that doomed the Boers as mining is where the demand for large amounts of cheap labor came from (ultimately the blame for this lies with the London branch of the banking mafia).

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    They also assumed that they would stay in control, which was not a terribly unreasonable expectation at the time, I would say.

  197. @anonymous coward
    @Mr. Hack


    Both of my parents were Ukrainians, therefore, I had plenty of opportunity to observe their work ethic firsthand.
     
    I'm guessing Galician, not Ukrainian.

    Many of my neighbors and friends in the community that I lived in were Ukrainians too, professional people, businessmen, and responsible workers of the factories of a bygone era.
     
    Yeah, "Ukrainian", just like the "Irish" residents of Boston. Don't make me laugh.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Neither of my parents were from Galicia, although a lot of my neighbors were. The Ukrainian community did a much better job of preserving its language and culture than the Irish Americans, who had been almost completely assimilated generations earlier: Ukrainian churches, a credit union, Ukrainian Cultural center, choirs, sports teams, dancing troupes etc; etc;

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Mr. Hack

    Speaking as an Irish-Canadian, I have to say I felt no resentment towards the organized Ukrainian-Canadian community until the Euromaidan coup. Since then, I occasionally read and hear annoying opinions about Russia coming from them. To be fair, for every annoying Uke, I hear four annoying globalists parroting the same idiocies.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  198. @Felix Keverich
    @Mr. Hack

    lol Ukrainians are lousy workers: entitled, lazy, shirking their duties, stealing everything that's not nailed down. Arguably the worst work ethic on the planet, on par with Sub-Sahara Africa. And a corresponding level of GDP. ;)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP, @Hyperborean, @Truth

    Hey, Lomachenko and Usyk are kinda cool.

  199. @anonymous coward
    @Stan d Mute


    Maybe, but they’d be on reservations anyway if they hadn’t succumbed to disease and weren’t slaughtered in war.
     
    I don't believe it. Without the apocalyptic plagues, American Indians would quickly take up Western government practices, Western technology and Western religion. History shows that Indians were some of the quickest people to assimilate Western culture. (Unlike Africans.) Also, they'd definitely be Roman Catholic, not Protestant. Also, there would be a lot of them -- Western civilization + American food = population growth.

    A modern USA that is 50% Roman Catholic Native is an interesting alternative history timeline to explore.

    I'd guess the blacks would be shipped back to Africa in that timeline, though. Can't imagine the native constituency tolerating an African underclass.

    I'd also imagine lots more 'state rights' in that timeline -- even with a unified USA, the natives would probably want to leave more room for remnants of tribal traditions.

    All in all, probably a better timeline than this one.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Philip Owen, @Truth

    History shows that Indians were some of the quickest people to assimilate Western culture.

    You’ve never been to a reservation west of the Mississippi.

  200. @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    Well, the Jews have financed Holocaust museums in cities all around the world. I want to learn from the Jews, since I'm one of the biggest philo-Semites around (Glossy would confirm).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry, @iffen

    I want to learn from the Jews, since

    Israel settles some South African immigrants in the occupied West Bank.

    It looks like farming ones, not educated skilled professionals that UK receives.

    They became religious spontaneously, and they seem in the West Bank in dangerous areas with the most high conflict with Arab populations.

    I guess an equivalent – settling Boars in the DNR?

  201. @Philip Owen
    @Okechukwu

    White Genocide is a very strong idea in Russia, except that they call it Russian genocide and add socialism to the list of enemies. 10's and 10's of millions of Russians did die in the 20th C and they look for someone to blame but they also borrow the vocabulary and ideology from the US Far Right.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Okechukwu

    White Genocide is a very strong idea in Russia, except that they call it Russian genocide and add socialism to the list of enemies. 10′s and 10′s of millions of Russians did die in the 20th C and they look for someone to blame but they also borrow the vocabulary and ideology from the US Far Right.

    But in the South African context, white genocide is viewed as white supremacist propaganda which withers under minor scrutiny. When these ideas migrate from Internet cocoons to the real world they’re inevitably subjected to due-diligence, at which point slogans and catch phrases won’t do. No responsible government will associate itself with it.

    South Africans who genuinely want to emigrate do a tremendous disservice to themselves if they couch their appeals in terms of an alleged genocide of white people. Any semi-competent government bureaucrat can cursorily determine this claim to be false.

    As an example:

    White South African family’s refugee bid rejected, accused of boosting case with ‘racist propaganda’

    A government lawyer said the fear of white children being raped by blacks was highly offensive as the information the family relied on was “white-supremacist hate literature” that should be ignored.

    The government also said the Endres’ claim was based on a risk of generalized crime in South Africa, meaning that it could impact almost anyone, not only those who are white or Afrikaners.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/white-south-african-familys-refugee-bid-rejected-allegedly-boosted-case-with-white-supremacist-information

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Okechukwu

    Another reason for the Day of the Rake.

    , @notanon
    @Okechukwu


    But in the South African context, white genocide is viewed as white supremacist propaganda which withers under minor scrutiny.
     
    in the global context it illustrates the media's double standards over anti-white racial violence - and the more the media attempt to downplay or ignore the issue the clearer their double standard becomes.
    , @Philip Owen
    @Okechukwu

    Good points. My group was looking for places for "second sons" as an insurance policy against Zimbabwean type nationalisation (there were no treaties in place when the Afrikaners trekked to Transvaal. Rhodes sometimes took the same approach) rather than rejection of life in South Africa as such. It could be regarded as overseas investment by South Africa.

    They did notice that the largely Protestant Volga Germans were removed by force after 200 years in the country. It wasn't a big factor but not a plus point either.

    Replies: @Gerard2

  202. @Stan d Mute
    @Daniel Chieh


    Boers are not “based” in my experience
     
    Where I may be guilty of overstatement, you are guilty of understatement.

    Boers are the very definition of ‘stupid’. “Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor, what could go wrong? Our Faith will protect us...”

    Replies: @notanon, @Truth, @songbird

    “Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor, what could go wrong? Our Faith will protect us…”

    And for 350 years, Stanley, it did.

  203. @Okechukwu
    @Philip Owen


    White Genocide is a very strong idea in Russia, except that they call it Russian genocide and add socialism to the list of enemies. 10′s and 10′s of millions of Russians did die in the 20th C and they look for someone to blame but they also borrow the vocabulary and ideology from the US Far Right.
     
    But in the South African context, white genocide is viewed as white supremacist propaganda which withers under minor scrutiny. When these ideas migrate from Internet cocoons to the real world they're inevitably subjected to due-diligence, at which point slogans and catch phrases won't do. No responsible government will associate itself with it.

    South Africans who genuinely want to emigrate do a tremendous disservice to themselves if they couch their appeals in terms of an alleged genocide of white people. Any semi-competent government bureaucrat can cursorily determine this claim to be false.

    As an example:

    White South African family’s refugee bid rejected, accused of boosting case with ‘racist propaganda’

    A government lawyer said the fear of white children being raped by blacks was highly offensive as the information the family relied on was “white-supremacist hate literature” that should be ignored.

    The government also said the Endres’ claim was based on a risk of generalized crime in South Africa, meaning that it could impact almost anyone, not only those who are white or Afrikaners.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/white-south-african-familys-refugee-bid-rejected-allegedly-boosted-case-with-white-supremacist-information

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @notanon, @Philip Owen

    Another reason for the Day of the Rake.

  204. @Mr. Hack
    @anonymous coward

    Neither of my parents were from Galicia, although a lot of my neighbors were. The Ukrainian community did a much better job of preserving its language and culture than the Irish Americans, who had been almost completely assimilated generations earlier: Ukrainian churches, a credit union, Ukrainian Cultural center, choirs, sports teams, dancing troupes etc; etc;

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    Speaking as an Irish-Canadian, I have to say I felt no resentment towards the organized Ukrainian-Canadian community until the Euromaidan coup. Since then, I occasionally read and hear annoying opinions about Russia coming from them. To be fair, for every annoying Uke, I hear four annoying globalists parroting the same idiocies.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Cagey Beast

    Why the negative opinion of Ukrainians after the Euromaidan? Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements, indcluding Yanukovych's security police and persevered. It's just too bad that the politicians today still don't seem to understand what it was all about...

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Gerard2

  205. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich
    @AP


    Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.
     
    Slava Ukraini? Nope!

    In 2017 the country trailed Algeria ($4,123), Tunisia ($3,491), Morocco ($3,007) and Sudan ($2,899). Sudan!

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EG-UA-DZ-MA-TN-SD

    The Ukraine seems have fallen behind North Africa at this point, and you know, the only region worse than North Africa is...Sub-Sahara Africa. They will be your peers from now on.

    Replies: @AP, @Polish Perspective

    In 2017 the country trailed Algeria ($4,123), Tunisia ($3,491), Morocco ($3,007) and Sudan ($2,899). Sudan!

    Sudan no longer includes the sub-Saharan parts and has some oil.

    Ukraine is ahead of Egypt, so within North African or Latin American levels in terms of nominal GDP, not close to sub-Saharan Africa (unless you mean oil states, one of which is even richer than Russia per capita). In PPP terms it is ahead of Morocco.

    Of course such comparisons are silly. Ukraine has a European, not third world, level of income equality. The richest 20% if Ukrainians have 4 times as much income as the poorest 20%, same as Slovakia or Sweden. In Algeria they have 6 times as much and in Paraguay 26 times as much.

    It’s not a land of shanty towns as in Latin America. More realistic is to compare it to other post-commie states. In per capita GDP PPP terms, it is a little behind Georgia and Armenia, and well ahead of Moldova, and Central Asia (other than Kazakhstan).

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @AP


    Of course such comparisons are silly. Ukraine has a European, not third world, level of income equality. The richest 20% if Ukrainians have 4 times as much income as the poorest 20%, same as Slovakia or Sweden. In Algeria they have 6 times as much and in Paraguay 26 times as much.
     
    Don't the US and Russia have the worst income inequality in the world?

    Replies: @Dmitry

  206. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Felix Keverich

    Southern Russians probably have similar IQ to rural Boers (~95).

    However, these are not typical rural Boers, but rural Boers with at least $100,000 to spare. So, probably cleverer than the locals.

    And certainly much better work ethic, since they're essentially West Europeans from an earlier era.

    Replies: @Randy the Auditor

    However, these are not typical rural Boers, but rural Boers with at least $100,000 to spare. So, probably cleverer than the locals.

    To me, the most surprising part of this story is that the kleptocrats who rule South Africa would allow Boer farmers to take that much money out of the country.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Randy the Auditor

    Heh. Let's just say that lack of intelligence can impact criminal success.

  207. @Randy the Auditor
    @Anatoly Karlin


    However, these are not typical rural Boers, but rural Boers with at least $100,000 to spare. So, probably cleverer than the locals.
     
    To me, the most surprising part of this story is that the kleptocrats who rule South Africa would allow Boer farmers to take that much money out of the country.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Heh. Let’s just say that lack of intelligence can impact criminal success.

  208. @Mr. Hack
    @AP


    I was in Moscow this spring and I saw no evidence of economic hardship; no one I knew experienced it, and it wasn’t evident by the look of the streets (busy stores and restaurants, etc.).
     
    Remember a couple of weeks back when I told you about my side trip to the magnificent Museum Anthropolgia in Mexico City? During my subway trip from the airport to the museum I passed the outskirts of some rough neighborhoods, but by and large I didn't see anything that was horrendous. Yet we know that these neighborhoods contain some incredible filth and squalor. A large area around the museum was very nice, including a zoo and many other museums too. Very nice houses and apartment buildings were also to be seen. I think that you possibly could have had similar experiences in Moscow too (besides, Moscow isn't all of Russia)? The article that I cited was based on some good solid statistical data that you need to take into consideration too along with your own possibly stinted or restricted personal views.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Yes it’s accurate to say, economically Moscow is not normal for Russia.

    The economic level of Moscow, is the same as rich areas of Western Europe (in per capita terms).

    Statistically, Moscow’s economic level is not less than an economically wealthy area of Germany.

    Lvov on the other hand, is far poorer than any area in Western Europe, and maybe equivalent in average incomes to the poorest of Russia’s cities with over a million cities – perhaps the average income level is similar to Volgograd. (We can probably research this information if you want).

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    Lvov on the other hand, is far poorer than any area in Western Europe, and maybe equivalent in average incomes to the poorest of Russia’s cities with over a million cities – perhaps the average income level is similar to Volgograd.
     
    A lot depends on cost of living, though. If you placed Lviv in Moscow it would be a very beautiful area, perhaps the nicest in the city, known for excellent restaurants, and mysteriously dirt cheap. I suspect if you placed Volgograd in Moscow it would not be considered a particularly nice part of Moscow.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Gerard2

    , @Gerard2
    @Dmitry


    Yes it’s accurate to say, economically Moscow is not normal for Russia.
     
    Plenty of other wealthy regions in Russia that have millions of people. Moscow has less an economic control than Stockholm does over Sweden and plenty of other countries .

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Dmitry

  209. @German_reader
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I guess you'll need to create your own movie industry then and make movies about Russian suffering. Shouldn't be too difficult about WW2, one could just imitate the template of Holocaust movies.
    I wonder though how a Russian nationalist movie about the "genocide" of the 1990s would look like.

    Replies: @DFH, @notanon

    a nationalist movie on the opiode epidemic in the USA – which is more or less the equivalent of what happened in Russia – could have a pair of initially honest local journalists investigating the problem, figuring out the cause was a combination of off-shoring leading to mass hopelessness in the rust belt towns combined with sinister opiode suppliers who know it is killing thousands but don’t care cos they are making a fortune fromit so both the suppliers and the people making billions from off-shoring want the mass die-off covered up – and then the two journalists get corrupted into joining in the cover up with an offer of big-time media jobs in the capital – or for a less honest version maybe one of the journalists refuses to be corrupted and gets murdered while the corrupt one goes off to be a big-time journalist in the capital.

    (although i don’t know if the Russian version of this was covered up at the time.)

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @notanon

    That actually might be a good (if very depressing) movie.

    Replies: @notanon

    , @songbird
    @notanon

    They almost, sort of made the movie in America. Hollywood-style, anyway.

    The ueber-Mischling, kosher Schwarzenegger the Rock, was the hero, beating down the white villains with his white sidekick. It was called "Walking Tall."

    Replies: @notanon

  210. @iffen
    @Daniel Chieh

    for SWPL craft projects is unique to the US.


    We truly live in an age like no other. I know of a gentleman farmer and wife that make and sell artisan cheese made from sheep milk. Apparently it sells per ounce as if it is gold.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    So, have you thought about raising alpacas now? At least it isn’t emus.

    Can’t believe anyone fell for that meme.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Daniel Chieh

    The emu and ostrich fad seems to have played out, I seldom see them anymore. The alpacas seem to still be in the growth stage, I see them popping up in new places. When I was in my early teens, chinchillas were the rage. The early adopters of these fads can make a lot of money.


    So, have you thought about raising alpacas now?

    No. I can't take the chance that I would join the capitalist running dog class and have to guillotine myself.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  211. @AP
    @The Big Red Scary

    I don't want to give the name of the place where our dacha is, I'll just say east of the city. Lots of garbage, visible from the electrichka, strewn around the villages that don't have dachas. Granted, I was last took the electrichka to the dacha in 2013.

    In central Ukraine I was in Zhytomir oblast. Villages weren't pretty (other than some churches), but they were clean. In Galicia they were like German or Polish villages, except with cheaper/poorer cars, even some horse-driven carts.

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    Lots of garbage, visible from the electrichka, strewn around the villages that don’t have dachas.

    This can be a problem, but is improving, at least in some places. In my village, we have an energetic “deputat” who organizes subbotniki to clean up beer cans and candy wrappers in the parks, and will gather up the boys to clean up bigger problems that people call in. Already in the few years I’ve been living here, I’ve seen marked improvements. Of course, my village might be special. But in the not-so-nice provincial city where my parents-in-law live, some pensioners began gardening in front of the hideous commie blocks. It caught on and spread to nearby blocks. All it takes is someone to show others it can be done.

    Anyhow, I’m glad to hear that Ukrainian villages are not too demoralized, and I wish them the best for the future.

  212. German_reader says:
    @notanon
    @German_reader

    a nationalist movie on the opiode epidemic in the USA - which is more or less the equivalent of what happened in Russia - could have a pair of initially honest local journalists investigating the problem, figuring out the cause was a combination of off-shoring leading to mass hopelessness in the rust belt towns combined with sinister opiode suppliers who know it is killing thousands but don't care cos they are making a fortune fromit so both the suppliers and the people making billions from off-shoring want the mass die-off covered up - and then the two journalists get corrupted into joining in the cover up with an offer of big-time media jobs in the capital - or for a less honest version maybe one of the journalists refuses to be corrupted and gets murdered while the corrupt one goes off to be a big-time journalist in the capital.

    (although i don't know if the Russian version of this was covered up at the time.)

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    That actually might be a good (if very depressing) movie.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @German_reader

    yeah - an anti "all the president's men"

  213. @Okechukwu
    @Philip Owen


    White Genocide is a very strong idea in Russia, except that they call it Russian genocide and add socialism to the list of enemies. 10′s and 10′s of millions of Russians did die in the 20th C and they look for someone to blame but they also borrow the vocabulary and ideology from the US Far Right.
     
    But in the South African context, white genocide is viewed as white supremacist propaganda which withers under minor scrutiny. When these ideas migrate from Internet cocoons to the real world they're inevitably subjected to due-diligence, at which point slogans and catch phrases won't do. No responsible government will associate itself with it.

    South Africans who genuinely want to emigrate do a tremendous disservice to themselves if they couch their appeals in terms of an alleged genocide of white people. Any semi-competent government bureaucrat can cursorily determine this claim to be false.

    As an example:

    White South African family’s refugee bid rejected, accused of boosting case with ‘racist propaganda’

    A government lawyer said the fear of white children being raped by blacks was highly offensive as the information the family relied on was “white-supremacist hate literature” that should be ignored.

    The government also said the Endres’ claim was based on a risk of generalized crime in South Africa, meaning that it could impact almost anyone, not only those who are white or Afrikaners.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/white-south-african-familys-refugee-bid-rejected-allegedly-boosted-case-with-white-supremacist-information

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @notanon, @Philip Owen

    But in the South African context, white genocide is viewed as white supremacist propaganda which withers under minor scrutiny.

    in the global context it illustrates the media’s double standards over anti-white racial violence – and the more the media attempt to downplay or ignore the issue the clearer their double standard becomes.

  214. @German_reader
    @notanon

    That actually might be a good (if very depressing) movie.

    Replies: @notanon

    yeah – an anti “all the president’s men”

  215. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes it’s accurate to say, economically Moscow is not normal for Russia.

    The economic level of Moscow, is the same as rich areas of Western Europe (in per capita terms).

    Statistically, Moscow’s economic level is not less than an economically wealthy area of Germany.

    -

    Lvov on the other hand, is far poorer than any area in Western Europe, and maybe equivalent in average incomes to the poorest of Russia's cities with over a million cities - perhaps the average income level is similar to Volgograd. (We can probably research this information if you want).

    Replies: @AP, @Gerard2

    Lvov on the other hand, is far poorer than any area in Western Europe, and maybe equivalent in average incomes to the poorest of Russia’s cities with over a million cities – perhaps the average income level is similar to Volgograd.

    A lot depends on cost of living, though. If you placed Lviv in Moscow it would be a very beautiful area, perhaps the nicest in the city, known for excellent restaurants, and mysteriously dirt cheap. I suspect if you placed Volgograd in Moscow it would not be considered a particularly nice part of Moscow.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP

    Sure, you could add Lvov's historical center to any city, and it would be considered beautiful.

    By the way, Volgograd has some quite elegant Stalinist architecture and avenues, that was built and reconstructed in immediate years after the war.

    -

    The problem in Ukraine, is not lack of existence of cities with beautiful historical centres - but the economy, and that people's whole lives are fucked up by this economy (in comparison to people living in other places).

    If visitor from outside, thinks that prices are very low in Lvov - that's not a good indication for the local people* (although it is a good indication for the visitor).


    * Lower prices usually correlate with lower cost of labour (i.e. low salaries).

    Replies: @Gerard2

    , @Gerard2
    @AP


    A lot depends on cost of living, though. If you placed Lviv in Moscow it would be a very beautiful area, perhaps the nicest in the city, known for excellent restaurants, and mysteriously dirt cheap. I suspect if you placed Volgograd in Moscow it would not be considered a particularly nice part of Moscow.
     
    LOL.....that's the Lvov that made exactly zilch impression on tourists for Ukraine during Euro 2012, not one single team wanted to stay in the stinking shithole with about 5 square metres of decent sights.

    Volgograd on the other hadn made a very good impression on many levels with tourists.
    If you talk of the poor aimless Lvov that the majority of the 2 million + people live in , then no, we aren't talking about a city of any value.



    The false equivalent comparison is even more moronic when we consider that Volgograd isn't even the main city on the Volga now and isn't supposed to be a key regional centre as failing Lvov is you moron ( 10th " best" wage level on an African-like state is nothing to boast about)

    Replies: @AP

  216. @Daniel Chieh
    @Stan d Mute

    Boers are not "based" in my experience, but I also question how realistic the 4chan expectations are. They are just people trying to survive; they tend to be extremely cynical if there is any specific personality trait I would associate with them, often perceiving the entire world as having betrayed them, including their own elite.

    Time in Africa seems to have impacted their character: in the positive, to be fairly daring and having a specific appreciation for the moment and the present. In the negative, for becoming more comfortable with corruption and dysfunction(esp. homocide) in society.

    They were fond of Russian criminal organizations in SA, which I can understand as those are at least more reliable than the chaos elsewhere; hopefully this does not extend within the borders of Russia, though.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @songbird

    Boers are not “based”

    Only the odd one. It’s hard when you are <10%, or even if you are an expat, living abroad to speak the truth. I hear many speak of the "thugs" that took over while, denying it is a black or white thing. I'd be curious to know what they really think.

    It is quite disturbing to see the full-on South African white SJWs that exist. Especially, the Nordic, teenage women, who seem to have embraced whatever the prevailing situation is.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @songbird

    Many of them have black friends, or even family members so they can't make it into a race thing. Spiritually, a lot of them have become pretty African. Goes beyond SJWs, during Zuma's little crazy end run, there were a couple of white women who shilled hard for him because he was basically the Big Man of the place. At least SJWs, presumably, have some sort of ideals.

    If you ever want to see tragicomedy, you should read the newspapers there and from a decade ago. As the decline continues, the writing style literally drops in grade levels. At this point, most Unz commentators probably use more vocabulary than your average Johannesburg journalist.

    Replies: @songbird, @Rogue

    , @Rogue
    @songbird

    You might be right about young White SA SJW's

    But living in South Africa as I do, I've never met any of these deluded morons.

    Then again, it's probably generational and I'm in my mid 50's.

    I notice a number of commentators are scathing about the Boers handing over power to the Black majority, but it's a whole lot more complicated than that.

    The only referundam that was held was about "continuing negotiations" with Black so-called liberation groups, and nothing else. The Boers were the least in agreement on that score.

    Apparently, a second referundam was promised with regard to the political outcome of the negotiations, but it never took place.

    Politicians lying? Who would have thought ...

  217. @notanon
    @German_reader

    a nationalist movie on the opiode epidemic in the USA - which is more or less the equivalent of what happened in Russia - could have a pair of initially honest local journalists investigating the problem, figuring out the cause was a combination of off-shoring leading to mass hopelessness in the rust belt towns combined with sinister opiode suppliers who know it is killing thousands but don't care cos they are making a fortune fromit so both the suppliers and the people making billions from off-shoring want the mass die-off covered up - and then the two journalists get corrupted into joining in the cover up with an offer of big-time media jobs in the capital - or for a less honest version maybe one of the journalists refuses to be corrupted and gets murdered while the corrupt one goes off to be a big-time journalist in the capital.

    (although i don't know if the Russian version of this was covered up at the time.)

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    They almost, sort of made the movie in America. Hollywood-style, anyway.

    The ueber-Mischling, kosher Schwarzenegger the Rock, was the hero, beating down the white villains with his white sidekick. It was called “Walking Tall.”

    • Replies: @notanon
    @songbird

    interesting - will have to check that out

  218. @songbird
    @Daniel Chieh


    Boers are not “based”
     
    Only the odd one. It's hard when you are <10%, or even if you are an expat, living abroad to speak the truth. I hear many speak of the "thugs" that took over while, denying it is a black or white thing. I'd be curious to know what they really think.

    It is quite disturbing to see the full-on South African white SJWs that exist. Especially, the Nordic, teenage women, who seem to have embraced whatever the prevailing situation is.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Rogue

    Many of them have black friends, or even family members so they can’t make it into a race thing. Spiritually, a lot of them have become pretty African. Goes beyond SJWs, during Zuma’s little crazy end run, there were a couple of white women who shilled hard for him because he was basically the Big Man of the place. At least SJWs, presumably, have some sort of ideals.

    If you ever want to see tragicomedy, you should read the newspapers there and from a decade ago. As the decline continues, the writing style literally drops in grade levels. At this point, most Unz commentators probably use more vocabulary than your average Johannesburg journalist.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Daniel Chieh


    As the decline continues, the writing style literally drops in grade levels.
     
    Also true over here. The Atlantic has to be read to be believed.
    , @Rogue
    @Daniel Chieh

    Couldn't agree more - journalism standards in South Africa are truly lamentable.

    The decline in journalism is matched by all sorts of other declines.

  219. @Felix Keverich
    @AP


    Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.
     
    Slava Ukraini? Nope!

    In 2017 the country trailed Algeria ($4,123), Tunisia ($3,491), Morocco ($3,007) and Sudan ($2,899). Sudan!

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EG-UA-DZ-MA-TN-SD

    The Ukraine seems have fallen behind North Africa at this point, and you know, the only region worse than North Africa is...Sub-Sahara Africa. They will be your peers from now on.

    Replies: @AP, @Polish Perspective

    the only region worse than North Africa is…Sub-Sahara Africa. They will be your peers from now on.

    Ukraine’s woes are real but they are fundamentally rooted in artificial constraints.
    There is a great deal of economic research on this, there are even entire schools of thought devoted to this topic. I’m not talking about development economics per se, but rather a specific approach to it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_economics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_institutional_economics

    Institutional factors are important, even for those of us who accept a race-realist framework. Ukraine – and North Korea – are the two great examples of this. That said, the potential is definitely there for both countries once they reform their societies. The same can not be said for the fossil-free Arab states due to genetic constraints (here I break with the institutionalist school, which demands an allegience to tabula rasa and similar nonsense. I prefer a combined approach).

    On a sidenote, I will express my surprise at your seeming pathological hatred against Ukraine which borders on the obsessive. A prosperous Ukraine will be good for Russia, it will increase Ukraine/Russia trade and stabilise the region. Rich people have a lot more to lose. You seem to have a burning desire to see Ukraine poor and destabilised forever. This may please your ego but it is not a smart long-term play. I do not see what you gain from your hatred towards Ukraine. It all seems petty and silly to me.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    @Polish Perspective

    What stopped Ukrainians from "reforming their society" after 2014? Or after "Orange revolution" for that matter? Reforms in the Ukraine amount to changing street names after WW2 Nazi collaborators, but if anything the country has grown even more corrupt under new Maidanist regime.

    There is a popular internet meme in Russia:

    Kravchuk, 1991: give it 5 years, and we will live like France!
    Yushchenko, 2004: give it 10 years, and we will live like Poland!
    Saakashvili, 2018: give it 20 years, and we will live like we used to under Yanukovich.

    A true reform will come to the Ukraine, when it's reincorporated back into Russia, ideally without Galician crazies - you, guys, can have them. :)

  220. @AP
    OT but Trump is right about Germany and Russia:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/angela-merkel-hits-back-at-donald-trump-at-nato-summit/ar-AAzUDvJ?ocid=spartanntp

    This summit is shaping up to be the most divisive in NATO’s 69-year history. Normally, NATO summits are mostly fixed in advance and proceed in an orderly fashion. Trump’s first words signaled this one was not going to be like that.

    He complained that German politicians had been working for Russian energy companies after leaving politics and said this too was inappropriate. Germany was totally controlled by Russia, Trump said.

    With Stoltenberg looking on uncomfortably throughout, the US president was unrelenting. “I think it is very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia,” Trump said. “We are supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions dollars a year to Russia.

    “We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France, we are protecting all of these countries and then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with Russia where they are paying billions of dollars into the coffers of Russia. I think that is very inappropriate.”

    He added: “It should never have been allowed to happen. Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they will be getting 60-70% of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline.

    “You tell me if that’s appropriate because I think it’s not. On top of that Germany is just paying just a little bit over 1% [of GDP on NATO defense contributions] whereas the United States is paying 4.2% of a much larger GDP. So I think that’s inappropriate also.”

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @German_reader, @Anatoly Karlin, @Okechukwu, @dfordoom

    There’s a little bit of projection going on here with Trump. The widely held notion that he is a Russian puppet or even a Russian intelligence asset despite, empirically, being tougher on Russia than his predecessors, seems to have hit a mark. Trump, however, doesn’t understand the energy markets. These are fungible international commodities that know no national borders and flow inexorably to the most profitable destination. In trade, distance is expensive. Seaborne crude oil deliveries can compete with pipeline traffic because they travel in these massive VLCC or ULCC tankers. But natural gas is another matter altogether. The infrastructure and shipping costs of LNG deliveries are substantial and not competitive.

    Having said that, the main problem with the Russian energy industry is that like all third world dictatorships, the firms are owned or controlled by the state. So it becomes easier to question the motivations of Russian companies as to whether they aren’t being used to advance Russian foreign policy objectives. And it becomes easier to tie Russian entities to the actions of the Russian government. Exxon-Mobil is a private sector company, but Gazprom is the Russian government. Consequently, Exxon-Mobil can pursue its business untethered to the US government, which accords it much greater credibility and shelters it from the ill will the US often engenders. They do observe US sanctions. But then every company in the world is obliged to implement US sanctions if they want to continue doing business. That includes Russian companies. As an example, most Russian companies have avoided doing business in Crimea in observance of US sanctions.

  221. @Hyperborean
    @Philip Owen

    Sorry, could you please clarify your point? Are you saying the BBC was biased in favour of Leave or in favour of Remain?

    Replies: @notanon, @Philip Owen

    The BBC is a very big organization. There were current affairs presenters who showed strong pro EU emotions when interviewing Leavers but by no means all. However, set against that was a large skew by some producers in selecting guest speakers. They would chose strong Europhobes and set them against half hearted government spokespeople rather than actual supporters of the EU. Also, the BBC allowed Brexit supporters to pack the audience during the important current affairs programme Question Time. The QT chairman was clearly pro EU but the guest list was strong on charismatic Leavers and the audience was routinely packed out with Leaver plants (often lying about their credentials to be included). A transmission from Oxford was classic in this instance. However, overall, in either way this was not that important. People who watch these programmes are high information types anyway.

    My main point was about television news on BBC One, the main UK news programme. This systematically presented the Leave agenda in particular deliberately heightening emotion about immigration. As this was the conclusive issue for the result (and I know about the Ashcroft poll – look again) it was very significant. So bias here was decisive.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Philip Owen


    They would chose strong Europhobes and set them against half hearted government spokespeople rather than actual supporters of the EU.
     
    that's because the UK conservative government was pro-EU but their voters weren't - the only reason they held a referendum in the first place was to prevent their party splitting - it's a bit like GOPe politicians in the US wanting mass immigration but their voters don't so they soft-pedal it - the pro-EU government speakers were lukewarm for that reason not because the BBC chose lukewarm supporters - the BBC itself is 100% open borders, both EU and otherwise hence their propaganda during the peak of the refugee crisis having unintended consequences on the Brexit vote.
  222. @Stan d Mute
    @Daniel Chieh


    Boers are not “based” in my experience
     
    Where I may be guilty of overstatement, you are guilty of understatement.

    Boers are the very definition of ‘stupid’. “Let’s move to a continent inhabited solely by cannibalistic savages, we’ll be just fine! Let’s use these cannibalistic savages for cheap labor, what could go wrong? Our Faith will protect us...”

    Replies: @notanon, @Truth, @songbird

    Our Faith will protect us…

    Might have been true before the invention of the AK-47 and easy-carry mortars.

    All things considered, they might have been better landing after tractors were invented. The Western Cape would have still been practically uninhabited. And numbers of blacks elsewhere would have been significantly lower without white agriculture.

    Alternate timeline: WWI never breaks out. European countries cooperate to send their surplus pop to South Africa.

  223. @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    Well, the Jews have financed Holocaust museums in cities all around the world. I want to learn from the Jews, since I'm one of the biggest philo-Semites around (Glossy would confirm).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry, @iffen

    In major cities of the Western world: Ukrainian supporters and Russian nationalists duke it out.

    Ukrainians win: Holodomor Museum

    Russkies win: Anti-Bolshevik Museum

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
  224. @AP
    @Dmitry


    Lvov on the other hand, is far poorer than any area in Western Europe, and maybe equivalent in average incomes to the poorest of Russia’s cities with over a million cities – perhaps the average income level is similar to Volgograd.
     
    A lot depends on cost of living, though. If you placed Lviv in Moscow it would be a very beautiful area, perhaps the nicest in the city, known for excellent restaurants, and mysteriously dirt cheap. I suspect if you placed Volgograd in Moscow it would not be considered a particularly nice part of Moscow.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Gerard2

    Sure, you could add Lvov’s historical center to any city, and it would be considered beautiful.

    By the way, Volgograd has some quite elegant Stalinist architecture and avenues, that was built and reconstructed in immediate years after the war.

    The problem in Ukraine, is not lack of existence of cities with beautiful historical centres – but the economy, and that people’s whole lives are fucked up by this economy (in comparison to people living in other places).

    If visitor from outside, thinks that prices are very low in Lvov – that’s not a good indication for the local people* (although it is a good indication for the visitor).

    * Lower prices usually correlate with lower cost of labour (i.e. low salaries).

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    @Dmitry


    Sure, you could add Lvov’s historical center to any city, and it would be considered beautiful.
     
    Lvov is a total decrepit shithole. A few nice streets covering a few square metres is not that impressive considering what surrounds that.
    A few streets in Harare are quite nice, preserving from the time when it was called Salisbury.....that shouldn't deflect from the general lack of quality in the city

    Replies: @Dmitry

  225. @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    When it comes to first-hand knowledge, versus stuff taken from the media, stereotypes tend to have some truth in them. In Russia, if you want to hire people who will do a good job, go with Ukrainians or perhaps Moldovans. But be careful because these people are clever or savvy enough to overcharge if they can get away with it. I know examples of this happening with Ukrainians. Excellent work, but over budget and upon investigation unnecessarily so.

    Here in the USA I hire Poles and Ukrainians to do renovations. Unfortunately, many Americans who do this stuff nowadays have opioid problems. Who wants a junkie in their house?

    There aren't people from Russia in Ukraine; native Russians don't have much of any reputation. People from Donbas had a reputation as being crude and criminal. In Kiev a few years before the war there was a sign in one of the passages under the street - "do not urinate here, this is not Donetsk." The war has made people bitter, but before the war Ukrainian attitudes towards Russia was similar to that of Canadians towards the USA - Russia is more violent, Russia is dirtier, less "European", people are brainwashed etc. Kiev has more litter in the streets than does Moscow, but locals told me - sorry about the litter, but you must be used to it, living in Moscow (OTOH, Ukrainian villages really are much cleaner and better put together than Russian ones).

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary, @Philip Owen

    I find Armenians hard working and trustworthy.

  226. @Daniel Chieh
    @songbird

    Many of them have black friends, or even family members so they can't make it into a race thing. Spiritually, a lot of them have become pretty African. Goes beyond SJWs, during Zuma's little crazy end run, there were a couple of white women who shilled hard for him because he was basically the Big Man of the place. At least SJWs, presumably, have some sort of ideals.

    If you ever want to see tragicomedy, you should read the newspapers there and from a decade ago. As the decline continues, the writing style literally drops in grade levels. At this point, most Unz commentators probably use more vocabulary than your average Johannesburg journalist.

    Replies: @songbird, @Rogue

    As the decline continues, the writing style literally drops in grade levels.

    Also true over here. The Atlantic has to be read to be believed.

  227. Could do without the “Heil Putler” at the end, even though it’s obviously humorous.

    It may seem harmless to you, but some of us actually want to share your columns and reach new people. That kind of comment, easily portrayed as “Nazi”, will turn off some people who aren’t otherwise irredeemably close-minded / brainwashed.

    In any event, it’s a prudent and compassionate move by Russia. And the more hard-working family-oriented normal white people they import like the Boers, the more attractive Russia becomes to the rest of us. (especially if it will provide some tiny number of additional English speakers, who seem very rare in Russia outside SPB and to a lesser extent Moscow — assuming that the Boers speak English and not just Afrikaans)

  228. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Philip Owen

    I wouldn't quite call it a "very strong" idea, but yes, we Russian nationalists are doing a lot to make that a reality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7yal9Gat0

    In my ideal future there will be Museums of the Russian Genocide beneath what used to be Lenin's Mausoleum and in cities across the world. Much like how the Jewish Museum & Center of Tolerance graces Moscow today - so lame to tell the story of others' holocausts, but not your own.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Philip Owen, @Rattus Norwegius

    Families that did well in the USSR but haven’t found opportunity in the Russian Federation seem to be strong believers in this. Rather similar to Germany in the early 30’s.

  229. @Daniel Chieh
    @iffen

    So, have you thought about raising alpacas now? At least it isn't emus.

    Can't believe anyone fell for that meme.

    Replies: @iffen

    The emu and ostrich fad seems to have played out, I seldom see them anymore. The alpacas seem to still be in the growth stage, I see them popping up in new places. When I was in my early teens, chinchillas were the rage. The early adopters of these fads can make a lot of money.

    So, have you thought about raising alpacas now?

    No. I can’t take the chance that I would join the capitalist running dog class and have to guillotine myself.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @iffen

    I'm going to try my hand at growing corn when I have free time. Its almost certainly a terrible idea, being a wind-pollinated plant and I don't have a huge field for it to happen naturally. Still, the notion appeals to me.

    Replies: @iffen, @songbird

  230. @Marcus
    @Mr. Hack

    Oil prices probably aren't going to collapse a la 2014 in the near future, Russia and the Saudis have made nice

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Okechukwu

    Can’t agree. The exchange rate hasn’t budged. The Forex markets don’t think the oil price rise is more than a ramp by a cartel. No substance to it. It is artificial restriction of supply rather than real demand. China’s workforce peaked 7 years ago. When the price goes, it will go as quickly as before.

  231. @iffen
    @Daniel Chieh

    The emu and ostrich fad seems to have played out, I seldom see them anymore. The alpacas seem to still be in the growth stage, I see them popping up in new places. When I was in my early teens, chinchillas were the rage. The early adopters of these fads can make a lot of money.


    So, have you thought about raising alpacas now?

    No. I can't take the chance that I would join the capitalist running dog class and have to guillotine myself.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    I’m going to try my hand at growing corn when I have free time. Its almost certainly a terrible idea, being a wind-pollinated plant and I don’t have a huge field for it to happen naturally. Still, the notion appeals to me.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Daniel Chieh

    being a wind-pollinated plant and I don’t have a huge field

    I think this threat is over-blown. :)

    I planted corn in my garden for many years, sometimes with only two rows, although I tried to make a short row block whenever I could, and I never had much of a pollination problem, maybe a few lost kernels here and there.

    Of course if you are talking about making money and efficiency, a 5% kernel loss would be enough to put you out of a competitive business.

    I like gardening; it ties me back to my parents and grandparents. It's not that expensive. I bring tomatoes in for less than $20 a pound every year!

    , @songbird
    @Daniel Chieh

    I once grew a few ears accidentally by looking after some chickens in the wintertime. They were small and probably not meant for human consumption. They grew up when the chickens were gone. I guess there was a lot of natural fertilizer there.

  232. @Okechukwu
    @Philip Owen


    White Genocide is a very strong idea in Russia, except that they call it Russian genocide and add socialism to the list of enemies. 10′s and 10′s of millions of Russians did die in the 20th C and they look for someone to blame but they also borrow the vocabulary and ideology from the US Far Right.
     
    But in the South African context, white genocide is viewed as white supremacist propaganda which withers under minor scrutiny. When these ideas migrate from Internet cocoons to the real world they're inevitably subjected to due-diligence, at which point slogans and catch phrases won't do. No responsible government will associate itself with it.

    South Africans who genuinely want to emigrate do a tremendous disservice to themselves if they couch their appeals in terms of an alleged genocide of white people. Any semi-competent government bureaucrat can cursorily determine this claim to be false.

    As an example:

    White South African family’s refugee bid rejected, accused of boosting case with ‘racist propaganda’

    A government lawyer said the fear of white children being raped by blacks was highly offensive as the information the family relied on was “white-supremacist hate literature” that should be ignored.

    The government also said the Endres’ claim was based on a risk of generalized crime in South Africa, meaning that it could impact almost anyone, not only those who are white or Afrikaners.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/white-south-african-familys-refugee-bid-rejected-allegedly-boosted-case-with-white-supremacist-information

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @notanon, @Philip Owen

    Good points. My group was looking for places for “second sons” as an insurance policy against Zimbabwean type nationalisation (there were no treaties in place when the Afrikaners trekked to Transvaal. Rhodes sometimes took the same approach) rather than rejection of life in South Africa as such. It could be regarded as overseas investment by South Africa.

    They did notice that the largely Protestant Volga Germans were removed by force after 200 years in the country. It wasn’t a big factor but not a plus point either.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    @Philip Owen

    Although millions of white South Africans have left South Africa after the end of Apartheid to go to Australia, New Zealand, UK, US ( as have many Indian South Africans and African south Africans)........it's prudent to note that the white population of South Africa has actually increased since then.

    Compare this to a shithole like Ukraine that has experienced a catastrophic loss of population throughout the 25 years, even though they were highly educated, owned decent property given to them from Soviet times... and have had a much lower murder rate than South Africa had ,and continues to have

    Replies: @Philip Owen

  233. @notanon
    @Philip Owen


    I looked at the project for them. Foolishly I disclosed my research unlike these cynical sharks. Russian land law does not encourage the formation of family farms by foreigners. Long term investment in land for foreigners is not an option. 49 years is the limit.
     
    very important point

    Russia should copy a version of what England did after the Black Death - keep the land state owned but sub-divide into family farms with 100 year leases, renewable by a child of the original lease holder for another 100 - that way people put the work in the improve the farm cos they know their kids will benefit but the land can't be sold off to a foreign agri-business
    .

    Replies: @Liza

    “Keep the land state owned”. That’s the system everywhere, though we call it private land ownership or whatever. Just try not paying your land taxes and see what happens. The state takes it and sells it to another farmer (or general landowner) who also is laboring under the delusion that he “owns” his property.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Liza

    right - in the UK the land was still owned by the aristocrats who leased it but my main point is if you want to get the most out of people they need to know they can pass on the benefit to their kids and 100 year leases is a method that's been proven to work.

    Replies: @songbird

  234. @Marcus
    @Mr. Hack

    Oil prices probably aren't going to collapse a la 2014 in the near future, Russia and the Saudis have made nice

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Okechukwu

    Oil prices probably aren’t going to collapse a la 2014 in the near future, Russia and the Saudis have made nice

    US producers control the price of all, not the Saudis or Russians. It’s a cyclical roller coaster. Price goes up and US producers jump in, uncap wells and start producing again. The market becomes over-supplied and price collapses again. US producers cap wells again and bide their time until the next round.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Okechukwu

    They have burned themselves seriously last time. It involved a number of bankruptcies. It’s going to take considerably higher prices to make them invest once more.

    However, prices can easily collapse in case of a recession.

    Replies: @Okechukwu

    , @Philip Owen
    @Okechukwu

    That's the mechanism at $70. Over that price the active reserves are in non OPEC countries. Below that price controlling the price depends on cartel discipline. I am surprised that Venuzuela, Nigeria etc haven't broken yet. Of course chaos in Libya and uncertainty about Iran doesn't help.

    Replies: @Okechukwu

  235. @songbird
    @notanon

    They almost, sort of made the movie in America. Hollywood-style, anyway.

    The ueber-Mischling, kosher Schwarzenegger the Rock, was the hero, beating down the white villains with his white sidekick. It was called "Walking Tall."

    Replies: @notanon

    interesting – will have to check that out

  236. @Daniel Chieh
    @iffen

    I'm going to try my hand at growing corn when I have free time. Its almost certainly a terrible idea, being a wind-pollinated plant and I don't have a huge field for it to happen naturally. Still, the notion appeals to me.

    Replies: @iffen, @songbird

    being a wind-pollinated plant and I don’t have a huge field

    I think this threat is over-blown. 🙂

    I planted corn in my garden for many years, sometimes with only two rows, although I tried to make a short row block whenever I could, and I never had much of a pollination problem, maybe a few lost kernels here and there.

    Of course if you are talking about making money and efficiency, a 5% kernel loss would be enough to put you out of a competitive business.

    I like gardening; it ties me back to my parents and grandparents. It’s not that expensive. I bring tomatoes in for less than $20 a pound every year!

  237. @Philip Owen
    @Hyperborean

    The BBC is a very big organization. There were current affairs presenters who showed strong pro EU emotions when interviewing Leavers but by no means all. However, set against that was a large skew by some producers in selecting guest speakers. They would chose strong Europhobes and set them against half hearted government spokespeople rather than actual supporters of the EU. Also, the BBC allowed Brexit supporters to pack the audience during the important current affairs programme Question Time. The QT chairman was clearly pro EU but the guest list was strong on charismatic Leavers and the audience was routinely packed out with Leaver plants (often lying about their credentials to be included). A transmission from Oxford was classic in this instance. However, overall, in either way this was not that important. People who watch these programmes are high information types anyway.

    My main point was about television news on BBC One, the main UK news programme. This systematically presented the Leave agenda in particular deliberately heightening emotion about immigration. As this was the conclusive issue for the result (and I know about the Ashcroft poll - look again) it was very significant. So bias here was decisive.

    Replies: @notanon

    They would chose strong Europhobes and set them against half hearted government spokespeople rather than actual supporters of the EU.

    that’s because the UK conservative government was pro-EU but their voters weren’t – the only reason they held a referendum in the first place was to prevent their party splitting – it’s a bit like GOPe politicians in the US wanting mass immigration but their voters don’t so they soft-pedal it – the pro-EU government speakers were lukewarm for that reason not because the BBC chose lukewarm supporters – the BBC itself is 100% open borders, both EU and otherwise hence their propaganda during the peak of the refugee crisis having unintended consequences on the Brexit vote.

  238. @Daniel Chieh
    @iffen

    I'm going to try my hand at growing corn when I have free time. Its almost certainly a terrible idea, being a wind-pollinated plant and I don't have a huge field for it to happen naturally. Still, the notion appeals to me.

    Replies: @iffen, @songbird

    I once grew a few ears accidentally by looking after some chickens in the wintertime. They were small and probably not meant for human consumption. They grew up when the chickens were gone. I guess there was a lot of natural fertilizer there.

  239. @Liza
    @notanon

    "Keep the land state owned". That's the system everywhere, though we call it private land ownership or whatever. Just try not paying your land taxes and see what happens. The state takes it and sells it to another farmer (or general landowner) who also is laboring under the delusion that he "owns" his property.

    Replies: @notanon

    right – in the UK the land was still owned by the aristocrats who leased it but my main point is if you want to get the most out of people they need to know they can pass on the benefit to their kids and 100 year leases is a method that’s been proven to work.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @notanon

    Some leases used to even be for a 1000 years - I saw one in my family once, while doing genealogical research. Don't think any of the folks still hold it, but a 1000 years is a pretty interesting number. Gives you the idea that they were serious about their country and about legacy.

  240. @AP
    @Felix Keverich


    In 2017 the country trailed Algeria ($4,123), Tunisia ($3,491), Morocco ($3,007) and Sudan ($2,899). Sudan!
     
    Sudan no longer includes the sub-Saharan parts and has some oil.

    Ukraine is ahead of Egypt, so within North African or Latin American levels in terms of nominal GDP, not close to sub-Saharan Africa (unless you mean oil states, one of which is even richer than Russia per capita). In PPP terms it is ahead of Morocco.

    Of course such comparisons are silly. Ukraine has a European, not third world, level of income equality. The richest 20% if Ukrainians have 4 times as much income as the poorest 20%, same as Slovakia or Sweden. In Algeria they have 6 times as much and in Paraguay 26 times as much.

    It's not a land of shanty towns as in Latin America. More realistic is to compare it to other post-commie states. In per capita GDP PPP terms, it is a little behind Georgia and Armenia, and well ahead of Moldova, and Central Asia (other than Kazakhstan).

    Replies: @Marcus

    Of course such comparisons are silly. Ukraine has a European, not third world, level of income equality. The richest 20% if Ukrainians have 4 times as much income as the poorest 20%, same as Slovakia or Sweden. In Algeria they have 6 times as much and in Paraguay 26 times as much.

    Don’t the US and Russia have the worst income inequality in the world?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Marcus

    In Russia, income inequality is not so bad, while wealth inequality may be the highest in the world according the internet (but this latter not very accurately measured- just estimations by banks).

  241. Don’t know if anyone has seen the movie Chappie. IMO, not a great plot or script, but it had a kind of interesting, if derivative theme about technology being used to pacify inner-city mayhem. But even though it was derivative, it seemed to ring truer.

    Though Robocop had sort of the same idea, we’ve seen that people will simply move away from Detroit, if they are capable of it. But the same isn’t really true of African cities in Africa. Africans continue to move into them, even though they can be very violent and chaotic. There’s opportunity and the potential for profit, even in that sort of chaos. South Africa is full of private security firms, even ones hired by the police. It’s easy to imagine it becoming the bleeding-edge of pacification technology, including robots. Whether it is foreign firms making investments, or else governments like China trying to secure agricultural land, it might be the future in Africa.

  242. @Polish Perspective
    @Felix Keverich


    the only region worse than North Africa is…Sub-Sahara Africa. They will be your peers from now on.
     
    Ukraine's woes are real but they are fundamentally rooted in artificial constraints.
    There is a great deal of economic research on this, there are even entire schools of thought devoted to this topic. I'm not talking about development economics per se, but rather a specific approach to it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_economics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_institutional_economics

    Institutional factors are important, even for those of us who accept a race-realist framework. Ukraine - and North Korea - are the two great examples of this. That said, the potential is definitely there for both countries once they reform their societies. The same can not be said for the fossil-free Arab states due to genetic constraints (here I break with the institutionalist school, which demands an allegience to tabula rasa and similar nonsense. I prefer a combined approach).

    On a sidenote, I will express my surprise at your seeming pathological hatred against Ukraine which borders on the obsessive. A prosperous Ukraine will be good for Russia, it will increase Ukraine/Russia trade and stabilise the region. Rich people have a lot more to lose. You seem to have a burning desire to see Ukraine poor and destabilised forever. This may please your ego but it is not a smart long-term play. I do not see what you gain from your hatred towards Ukraine. It all seems petty and silly to me.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich

    What stopped Ukrainians from “reforming their society” after 2014? Or after “Orange revolution” for that matter? Reforms in the Ukraine amount to changing street names after WW2 Nazi collaborators, but if anything the country has grown even more corrupt under new Maidanist regime.

    There is a popular internet meme in Russia:

    Kravchuk, 1991: give it 5 years, and we will live like France!
    Yushchenko, 2004: give it 10 years, and we will live like Poland!
    Saakashvili, 2018: give it 20 years, and we will live like we used to under Yanukovich.

    A true reform will come to the Ukraine, when it’s reincorporated back into Russia, ideally without Galician crazies – you, guys, can have them. 🙂

  243. @notanon
    @Liza

    right - in the UK the land was still owned by the aristocrats who leased it but my main point is if you want to get the most out of people they need to know they can pass on the benefit to their kids and 100 year leases is a method that's been proven to work.

    Replies: @songbird

    Some leases used to even be for a 1000 years – I saw one in my family once, while doing genealogical research. Don’t think any of the folks still hold it, but a 1000 years is a pretty interesting number. Gives you the idea that they were serious about their country and about legacy.

  244. More South Africa decline

  245. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    But Germany’s and various East European nations’ national interests are not necessarily the same.
     
    Correct. This doesn't contradict the idea that Germany is Russia's Trojan horse in Europe.

    In contrast to Poland or the Baltics, Germany has much more to fear from America than Russia.
     
    If the USA were led by a Clinton or a Kamala, allying with Merkel and pushing massive refugee settlement, than yes. I am not sure that this is true of a Trump-led USA.

    America and East Europeans demanding German ‘solidarity’ on Russian matters doesn’t make much sense
     
    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Hyperborean

    If the USA were led by a Clinton or a Kamala, allying with Merkel and pushing massive refugee settlement, than yes. I am not sure that this is true of a Trump-led USA.

    As Mitleser linked to a couple of threads back, the US Ambassador to Germany Richard Grenfell has been cozying up to CDU cuckservatives who are just as bad as Merkel, except gayer and more supportive of American foreign policy.

    And this is under the Trump administration, I doubt the next guys in charge will be better.

    It does if you consider Germany to be an ally and partner rather than rival and if Germany wants to be seen as an ally and partner.

    While Berlin is hardly blameless what with its interference in Poland’s internal affairs and the disrespect shown to America, I don’t see how the US or Poland can expect to be listened to nicely after all the bashing they give Germany over ‘muh trade’ or ‘muh reparations’.

  246. @notanon
    @Marcus


    It means that trying to equate living in a violent country with being subject to genocide looks hysterical.
     
    it's the western media's cover-up of all forms of anti-white violence which reinforces the "white genocide" meme.

    Replies: @Marcus

    True, also their attitude that whites there still deserve to be punished (I remember liberals essentially saying Rhodesian farmers got what they deserved).

  247. @songbird
    @Hyperborean

    Certain professions attract people with certain psychological predilections. Actors tend to be leftwing, and so Hollywood is leftwing. It is more leftwing than just the sum of its parts, since the group ostracizes, but I still consider it organically leftwing, or put another way, it is self-organizing.

    News is quite similar, IMO. There is a natural bias in the political orientation of people wanting to be in the media. For example: let's say it is 60:40. State news is another filter, making it 80:20. The difference comes partly from the esteem the state is held in. State news is upheld as unbiased, since it is not commercial. I knew a guy who wore a Che T-shirt who praised the BBC, while ridiculing other news for their biases.

    I'd suggest there is parallel between them both: they are professions that seek audiences, and anything that does is likely to have a leftward bias. Regarding the news, the best test of whether it is true is simple observation. I can't think of a single rightward state-news outlet.

    My theory about leftism: at base it is mainly hereditary. Think of it as being highly polygenic, like height or intelligence. Only, it differs greatly from those traits because it is more about interpersonal psychology, and so can manifest itself in radically different ways, depending on the environment or culture.

    It is an evolved group-based power-dynamic survival strategy. It evolved to harness greater numbers as a force multiplier, against the individual or against smaller groups. Mostly to redistribute resources.

    Leftists readily galvanize before a leader or the state - it is about organizing the group.
    They signal each other in countless ways - organizing the group.
    Tend to be more verbal - organizing the group.
    They tend towards xenophilia and loose sexuality - growing the group.
    They tend to impulsivity - necessary for group action.


    The problem as I see it is that the strategy wasn't evolved to operate in the modern world. Xenopihilia in the old days might have meant accepting in the members of some defeated clan that had been dispossessed of their hereditary land in a nearby province, if you could feed them. There were a lot of natural checks and balances that have been removed. Somalis on jetplanes fed by taxes aren't the same as a the remnants of some decimated clan of one's countrymen making a deadly, two-hundred mile trek through snow and freezing temperatures, and you needing to have a surplus in order to accept them.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @ThreeCranes

    Fundamentally, a “leftist” believes that he has been on the receiving end of a miscarriage of justice as dealt out by the established system. In his unselfconscious vanity he takes it as self evident that the cause for his failure to live up to his high opinion of himself must lie in the outer world. The leftist then is continually on the lookout for other victims with whom he forms alliances so as to strengthen his position vis a vis the flawed but all-powerful, tyrannical system. Viz., Sailer’s “coalition of the fringes”. Having been rooked by the rigged system, the Leftist feels no compunction to conform to fair standards and no remorse in soaking the beneficiaries of such a system through various means of appropriation.

    A “conservative” believes the system is fundamentally just and never more so than when it strives to distribute rewards impartially, without favor, i.e. meritocratically. Also, that a “Law” that is shot through with exceptions for special interest groups is not a “Law” at all in the strict sense of the word, it is privilege and special pleading.

    Conservatives invite rank ordering by objective testing; lefties hate the very concepts.

  248. @Marcus
    @AP


    Of course such comparisons are silly. Ukraine has a European, not third world, level of income equality. The richest 20% if Ukrainians have 4 times as much income as the poorest 20%, same as Slovakia or Sweden. In Algeria they have 6 times as much and in Paraguay 26 times as much.
     
    Don't the US and Russia have the worst income inequality in the world?

    Replies: @Dmitry

    In Russia, income inequality is not so bad, while wealth inequality may be the highest in the world according the internet (but this latter not very accurately measured- just estimations by banks).

  249. @Okechukwu
    @Marcus


    Oil prices probably aren’t going to collapse a la 2014 in the near future, Russia and the Saudis have made nice
     
    US producers control the price of all, not the Saudis or Russians. It's a cyclical roller coaster. Price goes up and US producers jump in, uncap wells and start producing again. The market becomes over-supplied and price collapses again. US producers cap wells again and bide their time until the next round.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Philip Owen

    They have burned themselves seriously last time. It involved a number of bankruptcies. It’s going to take considerably higher prices to make them invest once more.

    However, prices can easily collapse in case of a recession.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    @reiner Tor


    They have burned themselves seriously last time.
     
    It doesn't matter how many times they burn themselves. New money always comes in to chase profits when oil prices rise. Also, American producers voluntarily reduce production when prices fall below a certain threshold. They lay off workers, shed assets, get lean and hunker down while waiting for the next inevitable boom. It's a strategy they have honed to perfection. It also provides a windfall to the savvy investor.

    It involved a number of bankruptcies. It’s going to take considerably higher prices to make them invest once more.
     
    The companies that go bankrupt were either operating on a shoestring or they were poorly managed. The real players simply scoop up their assets at fire sale prices. An oil company that is holding assets that are in the ground is not likely to go bankrupt whatever the vagaries of the market. Trading and service companies are the ones that feel the most pain in a bear market. Also, investments are made on a very long time horizon of 10, 20 years. Within that time you will have multiple boom/bust cycles. In other words, they don't have to look for new money when prices collapse because the investments have already been made.
  250. @Okechukwu
    @Marcus


    Oil prices probably aren’t going to collapse a la 2014 in the near future, Russia and the Saudis have made nice
     
    US producers control the price of all, not the Saudis or Russians. It's a cyclical roller coaster. Price goes up and US producers jump in, uncap wells and start producing again. The market becomes over-supplied and price collapses again. US producers cap wells again and bide their time until the next round.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Philip Owen

    That’s the mechanism at $70. Over that price the active reserves are in non OPEC countries. Below that price controlling the price depends on cartel discipline. I am surprised that Venuzuela, Nigeria etc haven’t broken yet. Of course chaos in Libya and uncertainty about Iran doesn’t help.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    @Philip Owen


    That’s the mechanism at $70. Over that price the active reserves are in non OPEC countries. Below that price controlling the price depends on cartel discipline. I am surprised that Venuzuela, Nigeria etc haven’t broken yet. Of course chaos in Libya and uncertainty about Iran doesn’t help.
     
    Yes and no. Many American producers can produce very profitably at half that price. It depends on where their assets are, how well they're run, what grade of oil they're producing, whether they're pumping legacy wells or initiating new production and so on. If you've ever visited an oil production tank battery you'll notice that there's usually no one there. It's automated to a very large degree. This keeps costs down, allowing producers to keep going even when prices hit near rock bottom.

    You're also missing the psychological effect of ever increasing rig counts and the attendant spikes in production. The market is rarely governed by what's happening on the ground physically. Prices can collapse when institutional investors take their profits and get out. Or they can collapse when there's a general sense that a bull market has run its course and is bound to reverse itself at any moment. Thus it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and everyone bails.
  251. @reiner Tor
    @Okechukwu

    They have burned themselves seriously last time. It involved a number of bankruptcies. It’s going to take considerably higher prices to make them invest once more.

    However, prices can easily collapse in case of a recession.

    Replies: @Okechukwu

    They have burned themselves seriously last time.

    It doesn’t matter how many times they burn themselves. New money always comes in to chase profits when oil prices rise. Also, American producers voluntarily reduce production when prices fall below a certain threshold. They lay off workers, shed assets, get lean and hunker down while waiting for the next inevitable boom. It’s a strategy they have honed to perfection. It also provides a windfall to the savvy investor.

    It involved a number of bankruptcies. It’s going to take considerably higher prices to make them invest once more.

    The companies that go bankrupt were either operating on a shoestring or they were poorly managed. The real players simply scoop up their assets at fire sale prices. An oil company that is holding assets that are in the ground is not likely to go bankrupt whatever the vagaries of the market. Trading and service companies are the ones that feel the most pain in a bear market. Also, investments are made on a very long time horizon of 10, 20 years. Within that time you will have multiple boom/bust cycles. In other words, they don’t have to look for new money when prices collapse because the investments have already been made.

  252. @Philip Owen
    @Okechukwu

    That's the mechanism at $70. Over that price the active reserves are in non OPEC countries. Below that price controlling the price depends on cartel discipline. I am surprised that Venuzuela, Nigeria etc haven't broken yet. Of course chaos in Libya and uncertainty about Iran doesn't help.

    Replies: @Okechukwu

    That’s the mechanism at $70. Over that price the active reserves are in non OPEC countries. Below that price controlling the price depends on cartel discipline. I am surprised that Venuzuela, Nigeria etc haven’t broken yet. Of course chaos in Libya and uncertainty about Iran doesn’t help.

    Yes and no. Many American producers can produce very profitably at half that price. It depends on where their assets are, how well they’re run, what grade of oil they’re producing, whether they’re pumping legacy wells or initiating new production and so on. If you’ve ever visited an oil production tank battery you’ll notice that there’s usually no one there. It’s automated to a very large degree. This keeps costs down, allowing producers to keep going even when prices hit near rock bottom.

    You’re also missing the psychological effect of ever increasing rig counts and the attendant spikes in production. The market is rarely governed by what’s happening on the ground physically. Prices can collapse when institutional investors take their profits and get out. Or they can collapse when there’s a general sense that a bull market has run its course and is bound to reverse itself at any moment. Thus it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and everyone bails.

  253. @AP
    @Felix Keverich


    It’s not like these Ukrainian oligarchs came from Mars, you know, they are flesh and blood of the “Ukrainian nation”.
     
    They were the local Sovok elite. Yanukovich wasn't even an ethnic Ukrainian.

    You may not fully appreciate just how profoundly disfunctional the country is, trailing Egypt in per capita GDP
     
    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.

    Replies: @Felix Keverich, @Gerard2

    [MORE]

    They were the local Sovok elite

    LOL!!….Bizarre retard comment……the country was a 100% absorbed into the Soviet Union state with 90% of the country wanting to keep it that way at time of dissolution and 95% wanting unity with Russia well into the 90’s you dumb prick. Saying nobody would be Soviet ( whatever your mononic statement means when that is the era the people are living through you thick POS) is like saying an elephant without a trunk. If you take out “Soviet” people, we are left with disgusting State Department cunts who fled, helped by the CIA in the 1940’s/50’s and have no idea of the country you cretin.

    At least 20 African countries are richer than 3rd world shithole Ukraine you idiot. All the South American countries, plenty of the poor south Asian ones too.if you go from your Valtsmans, Kolomoiskys, Pinchuks and so on you have a whole layer of “Ukrainian” oligarchs you inbred prick.

    Interestingly enough for a country with 0.1% muslims in it- it’s richest man and it’s starter of this fake revolution at Maidan….are both Muslims.

    We’ve seen how Banderovtsky, state-department manufactured scumbag “Ukrainians” do running the country….they steal the most of anyone, get bored and bugger off back to America of Canada ( Yats being a prime example) leaving the country poorer and stupider from the previous failed, pointless and fake “revolution”

    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.

    LOL…more time-wasting cretinous lies……Egypts is $3500+ you idiot and much richer than African-like Ukraine….as are Nagorno-Karabakh, Armenia itself, Georgia……and those country don’t have the level of administrative incompetence, huge healthcare problems and poverty of Ukraine

    • Replies: @AP
    @Gerard2


    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.

    LOL…more time-wasting cretinous lies……Egypts is $3500+
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

    No, according to World Bank Egypt is $2413. According to IMF it is $2501.

    Thanks for yet again demonstrating how little you know..about anything.

    Replies: @Marcus

  254. Anonymous[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dmitry

    It claims to be:


    This is the official channel of the main TV news channels of the largest media holding in Russia, the state-owned VGRTK.
     
    Though yes, it certainly doesn't look official. Probably something semi-official. (Translating all this stuff isn't an entirely trivial undertaking. And if it's unsanctioned, the channels in question would find it easy to take it down).

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Anonymous

    I’m a native English speaker with some grasp of the Russian language. I’m the main editor in the news division of the localization studio that translates and edits these clips (native Russian speakers write a translation in a .srt file, I try to make it look like normal English). it’s definitely official. I’ve even been told that Kiselyov knows English and watches his segments on there.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  255. @Dmitry
    @AP

    Sure, you could add Lvov's historical center to any city, and it would be considered beautiful.

    By the way, Volgograd has some quite elegant Stalinist architecture and avenues, that was built and reconstructed in immediate years after the war.

    -

    The problem in Ukraine, is not lack of existence of cities with beautiful historical centres - but the economy, and that people's whole lives are fucked up by this economy (in comparison to people living in other places).

    If visitor from outside, thinks that prices are very low in Lvov - that's not a good indication for the local people* (although it is a good indication for the visitor).


    * Lower prices usually correlate with lower cost of labour (i.e. low salaries).

    Replies: @Gerard2

    Sure, you could add Lvov’s historical center to any city, and it would be considered beautiful.

    Lvov is a total decrepit shithole. A few nice streets covering a few square metres is not that impressive considering what surrounds that.
    A few streets in Harare are quite nice, preserving from the time when it was called Salisbury…..that shouldn’t deflect from the general lack of quality in the city

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Gerard2

    Architecturally, centre Lvov is very interesting, with many beautiful historical buildings.

    It includes buildings in many style, from Baroque, to Art Nouveau - some designed by famous architects.

    Not only many of these buildings are architecturally interesting, but some can have a great historical importance.

    For example, "Scotlandish cafe"- centre of many famous Polish mathematicians of the 1930s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Caf%C3%A9

  256. other Boers may settle in, the Krasnodar Territory and the North Caucasus republics.

    That does not seem like a good idea. I don’t see them getting along well with the Chechens, Dagestanis et al. Unless they convert to Islam.

    Why not Siberia?

    • Replies: @A.A.
    @Bliss


    That does not seem like a good idea. I don’t see them getting along well with the Chechens, Dagestanis et al. Unless they convert to Islam.
     
    North Caucasian republics are not exactly the place to be, but besides Dagestan, Ingushetia and Chechnya they do have significant Russian minorities in place. I have some distant relatives living in Kabardin0-Balkaria who are Slavic and Christian and seem quite comfortable there.

    Replies: @Marcus

  257. @AP
    @Dmitry


    Lvov on the other hand, is far poorer than any area in Western Europe, and maybe equivalent in average incomes to the poorest of Russia’s cities with over a million cities – perhaps the average income level is similar to Volgograd.
     
    A lot depends on cost of living, though. If you placed Lviv in Moscow it would be a very beautiful area, perhaps the nicest in the city, known for excellent restaurants, and mysteriously dirt cheap. I suspect if you placed Volgograd in Moscow it would not be considered a particularly nice part of Moscow.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Gerard2

    A lot depends on cost of living, though. If you placed Lviv in Moscow it would be a very beautiful area, perhaps the nicest in the city, known for excellent restaurants, and mysteriously dirt cheap. I suspect if you placed Volgograd in Moscow it would not be considered a particularly nice part of Moscow.

    LOL…..that’s the Lvov that made exactly zilch impression on tourists for Ukraine during Euro 2012, not one single team wanted to stay in the stinking shithole with about 5 square metres of decent sights.

    Volgograd on the other hadn made a very good impression on many levels with tourists.
    If you talk of the poor aimless Lvov that the majority of the 2 million + people live in , then no, we aren’t talking about a city of any value.

    [MORE]

    The false equivalent comparison is even more moronic when we consider that Volgograd isn’t even the main city on the Volga now and isn’t supposed to be a key regional centre as failing Lvov is you moron ( 10th ” best” wage level on an African-like state is nothing to boast about)

    • Replies: @AP
    @Gerard2

    It's hilarious that the "worst" thing you could come up with about Lviv is that 1it, like Kharkiv, didn't host a team during the Euro 2012.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  258. @Gerard2
    @Dmitry


    Sure, you could add Lvov’s historical center to any city, and it would be considered beautiful.
     
    Lvov is a total decrepit shithole. A few nice streets covering a few square metres is not that impressive considering what surrounds that.
    A few streets in Harare are quite nice, preserving from the time when it was called Salisbury.....that shouldn't deflect from the general lack of quality in the city

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Architecturally, centre Lvov is very interesting, with many beautiful historical buildings.

    It includes buildings in many style, from Baroque, to Art Nouveau – some designed by famous architects.

    Not only many of these buildings are architecturally interesting, but some can have a great historical importance.

    For example, “Scotlandish cafe”- centre of many famous Polish mathematicians of the 1930s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Caf%C3%A9

  259. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes it’s accurate to say, economically Moscow is not normal for Russia.

    The economic level of Moscow, is the same as rich areas of Western Europe (in per capita terms).

    Statistically, Moscow’s economic level is not less than an economically wealthy area of Germany.

    -

    Lvov on the other hand, is far poorer than any area in Western Europe, and maybe equivalent in average incomes to the poorest of Russia's cities with over a million cities - perhaps the average income level is similar to Volgograd. (We can probably research this information if you want).

    Replies: @AP, @Gerard2

    Yes it’s accurate to say, economically Moscow is not normal for Russia.

    Plenty of other wealthy regions in Russia that have millions of people. Moscow has less an economic control than Stockholm does over Sweden and plenty of other countries .

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Gerard2

    Good grief, I agree with you. Moscow City has about 11% of the Russian population. Moscow region doesn't add a lot more. The conurbations around London and Paris are about 25% of their populations.

    , @Dmitry
    @Gerard2

    There's a huge amount of wealthy people across the country, but not total areas with large populations of millions of people, where the GDP per capita is the same as a wealthy part of West Germany.

    In Moscow, however, there are so many wealthy people, that the overall figures across many millions of people - are still as high as a wealthy part of West Germany. (Even while, if you look at the job advertisements, salaries in the same fields are quite a lot higher in Germany).

    This (Moscow) is not at all representative for Russia, and Mr Hack is correct here.

    Even if you compare Moscow to a city like Ekaterinburg.

    In Ekaterinburg, it's not a secret there's the huge amount of wealthy people - you only have to see when they opened multi-floor Dior and Chanel branches in Sacco and Vanzetti street, which are larger (and selling the same products at higher prices) than the equivalents in Rodeo Drive of Beverly Hills.

    But nonetheless the overall statistics, across the whole city, are far lower incomes and wealth than in equivalent size Western European cities. (And the overall economic level of average people in Ekaterinburg is obviously vastly different [lower] to equivalent cities in Germany).

    With qualification, probably the economic data for the country overall are a bit of an underestimation, as more wealthy people will be on average be likely to keep their income a secret compared to in e.g. Germany (I would guess - I don't know a lot about Germany).

  260. @Gerard2
    @AP


    A lot depends on cost of living, though. If you placed Lviv in Moscow it would be a very beautiful area, perhaps the nicest in the city, known for excellent restaurants, and mysteriously dirt cheap. I suspect if you placed Volgograd in Moscow it would not be considered a particularly nice part of Moscow.
     
    LOL.....that's the Lvov that made exactly zilch impression on tourists for Ukraine during Euro 2012, not one single team wanted to stay in the stinking shithole with about 5 square metres of decent sights.

    Volgograd on the other hadn made a very good impression on many levels with tourists.
    If you talk of the poor aimless Lvov that the majority of the 2 million + people live in , then no, we aren't talking about a city of any value.



    The false equivalent comparison is even more moronic when we consider that Volgograd isn't even the main city on the Volga now and isn't supposed to be a key regional centre as failing Lvov is you moron ( 10th " best" wage level on an African-like state is nothing to boast about)

    Replies: @AP

    It’s hilarious that the “worst” thing you could come up with about Lviv is that 1it, like Kharkiv, didn’t host a team during the Euro 2012.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP

    The worst thing about Lvov - that the people (vast majority) are living in poverty.

    Replies: @AP

  261. AP says:
    @Gerard2
    @AP


    They were the local Sovok elite
     
    LOL!!....Bizarre retard comment......the country was a 100% absorbed into the Soviet Union state with 90% of the country wanting to keep it that way at time of dissolution and 95% wanting unity with Russia well into the 90's you dumb prick. Saying nobody would be Soviet ( whatever your mononic statement means when that is the era the people are living through you thick POS) is like saying an elephant without a trunk. If you take out "Soviet" people, we are left with disgusting State Department cunts who fled, helped by the CIA in the 1940's/50's and have no idea of the country you cretin.

    At least 20 African countries are richer than 3rd world shithole Ukraine you idiot. All the South American countries, plenty of the poor south Asian ones too.if you go from your Valtsmans, Kolomoiskys, Pinchuks and so on you have a whole layer of "Ukrainian" oligarchs you inbred prick.

    Interestingly enough for a country with 0.1% muslims in it- it's richest man and it's starter of this fake revolution at Maidan....are both Muslims.

    We've seen how Banderovtsky, state-department manufactured scumbag "Ukrainians" do running the country....they steal the most of anyone, get bored and bugger off back to America of Canada ( Yats being a prime example) leaving the country poorer and stupider from the previous failed, pointless and fake "revolution"

    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.
     
    LOL...more time-wasting cretinous lies......Egypts is $3500+ you idiot and much richer than African-like Ukraine....as are Nagorno-Karabakh, Armenia itself, Georgia......and those country don't have the level of administrative incompetence, huge healthcare problems and poverty of Ukraine

    Replies: @AP

    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.

    LOL…more time-wasting cretinous lies……Egypts is $3500+

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

    No, according to World Bank Egypt is $2413. According to IMF it is $2501.

    Thanks for yet again demonstrating how little you know..about anything.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @AP

    As much as I hate Ukrainian nationalists, their Russian counterparts often have an extremely hubristic view of the situation, e.g. to them Ukraine is a shithole, but it's also rightfully an integral part of Russia.

    Replies: @AP

  262. @Cagey Beast
    @Mr. Hack

    Speaking as an Irish-Canadian, I have to say I felt no resentment towards the organized Ukrainian-Canadian community until the Euromaidan coup. Since then, I occasionally read and hear annoying opinions about Russia coming from them. To be fair, for every annoying Uke, I hear four annoying globalists parroting the same idiocies.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Why the negative opinion of Ukrainians after the Euromaidan? Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements, indcluding Yanukovych’s security police and persevered. It’s just too bad that the politicians today still don’t seem to understand what it was all about…

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Mr. Hack

    To me, it looked like one half of Ukraine turning on the other half after being given encouragement from the West.

    Replies: @Marcus, @AP

    , @Gerard2
    @Mr. Hack


    Why the negative opinion of Ukrainians after the Euromaidan? Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements, indcluding Yanukovych’s security police and persevered. It’s just too bad that the politicians today still don’t seem to understand what it was all about…
     
    What type of inbred moron comes up with these Hollywood-eque fantasist nonsense over an incredibly nightmarish situation?

    Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements
     
    0.1 % of these fucktards decided to standup ( courtesy of money from the State Department)....for months, lazy bums not going to work for months....over a perfectly rational decision by Yanukovich not to accept a suicidal Association agreement, that only seemed to be offered by the EU when Russia was able to offer a very compelling Eurasian Economic Union arrangement you idiot. During the Yushchenko time there wasn't a hint of an EU Association deal on the table by these pricks

    Replies: @Philip Owen

  263. @Talha
    Wow - impressive! About time.

    Peace.

    Replies: @Talha

    Ha! I missed this the first time…

    North Caucasus republics

    Good, maybe they can get toughened up by the Caucasians and go back to SA and defend their farms. Maybe make the connections and hire some Chechen mercenaries too.

    Thumbs up!

    Peace.

  264. @Bliss

    other Boers may settle in, the Krasnodar Territory and the North Caucasus republics.
     
    That does not seem like a good idea. I don’t see them getting along well with the Chechens, Dagestanis et al. Unless they convert to Islam.

    Why not Siberia?

    Replies: @A.A.

    That does not seem like a good idea. I don’t see them getting along well with the Chechens, Dagestanis et al. Unless they convert to Islam.

    North Caucasian republics are not exactly the place to be, but besides Dagestan, Ingushetia and Chechnya they do have significant Russian minorities in place. I have some distant relatives living in Kabardin0-Balkaria who are Slavic and Christian and seem quite comfortable there.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @A.A.

    Doesn't Dagestan have significant Christian minorities? Not sure if they are Slavs

  265. @Mr. Hack
    @Cagey Beast

    Why the negative opinion of Ukrainians after the Euromaidan? Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements, indcluding Yanukovych's security police and persevered. It's just too bad that the politicians today still don't seem to understand what it was all about...

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Gerard2

    To me, it looked like one half of Ukraine turning on the other half after being given encouragement from the West.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @Cagey Beast

    Not so much the West as certain (((elements))) of the US State Dept. Hilariously enough, the Ukrainian neo-Nazis (half of them live in Canada) are just lapdogs of "ZOG."

    , @AP
    @Cagey Beast

    You should be wary of Russian sources when it comes to Ukraine (you can be wary of Western sources too). While the country was evenly divided between pro-Western more religious west and pro-Russian, more Sovietized east, the recent war and conflict has not involved an even division; many "Blue" voters friendly towards Russia did not support rebellion or separatism, even against a government they might not like. The Russian-inhabited Donbas eastern fringe (about 3-4 million people or 10% of the national population) has left, with significant Russian support.

  266. @Gerard2
    @Dmitry


    Yes it’s accurate to say, economically Moscow is not normal for Russia.
     
    Plenty of other wealthy regions in Russia that have millions of people. Moscow has less an economic control than Stockholm does over Sweden and plenty of other countries .

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Dmitry

    Good grief, I agree with you. Moscow City has about 11% of the Russian population. Moscow region doesn’t add a lot more. The conurbations around London and Paris are about 25% of their populations.

  267. @Cagey Beast
    @Mr. Hack

    To me, it looked like one half of Ukraine turning on the other half after being given encouragement from the West.

    Replies: @Marcus, @AP

    Not so much the West as certain (((elements))) of the US State Dept. Hilariously enough, the Ukrainian neo-Nazis (half of them live in Canada) are just lapdogs of “ZOG.”

  268. @A.A.
    @Bliss


    That does not seem like a good idea. I don’t see them getting along well with the Chechens, Dagestanis et al. Unless they convert to Islam.
     
    North Caucasian republics are not exactly the place to be, but besides Dagestan, Ingushetia and Chechnya they do have significant Russian minorities in place. I have some distant relatives living in Kabardin0-Balkaria who are Slavic and Christian and seem quite comfortable there.

    Replies: @Marcus

    Doesn’t Dagestan have significant Christian minorities? Not sure if they are Slavs

  269. AP says:
    @Cagey Beast
    @Mr. Hack

    To me, it looked like one half of Ukraine turning on the other half after being given encouragement from the West.

    Replies: @Marcus, @AP

    You should be wary of Russian sources when it comes to Ukraine (you can be wary of Western sources too). While the country was evenly divided between pro-Western more religious west and pro-Russian, more Sovietized east, the recent war and conflict has not involved an even division; many “Blue” voters friendly towards Russia did not support rebellion or separatism, even against a government they might not like. The Russian-inhabited Donbas eastern fringe (about 3-4 million people or 10% of the national population) has left, with significant Russian support.

  270. @AP
    @Gerard2


    Not nominal. Egypt $2,413, Ukraine $2,640.

    In terms of PPP, then yes. Egypt $11,583, Ukraine $8,667. Egypt also beats Georgia and Armenia.

    LOL…more time-wasting cretinous lies……Egypts is $3500+
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

    No, according to World Bank Egypt is $2413. According to IMF it is $2501.

    Thanks for yet again demonstrating how little you know..about anything.

    Replies: @Marcus

    As much as I hate Ukrainian nationalists, their Russian counterparts often have an extremely hubristic view of the situation, e.g. to them Ukraine is a shithole, but it’s also rightfully an integral part of Russia.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Marcus

    I'm not a fan of any nationalism (though I consider it a lesser evil than several other -isms), but why do you hate Ukrainian nationalists?

    Replies: @Marcus

  271. @Gerard2
    @Dmitry


    Yes it’s accurate to say, economically Moscow is not normal for Russia.
     
    Plenty of other wealthy regions in Russia that have millions of people. Moscow has less an economic control than Stockholm does over Sweden and plenty of other countries .

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Dmitry

    There’s a huge amount of wealthy people across the country, but not total areas with large populations of millions of people, where the GDP per capita is the same as a wealthy part of West Germany.

    In Moscow, however, there are so many wealthy people, that the overall figures across many millions of people – are still as high as a wealthy part of West Germany. (Even while, if you look at the job advertisements, salaries in the same fields are quite a lot higher in Germany).

    This (Moscow) is not at all representative for Russia, and Mr Hack is correct here.

    Even if you compare Moscow to a city like Ekaterinburg.

    In Ekaterinburg, it’s not a secret there’s the huge amount of wealthy people – you only have to see when they opened multi-floor Dior and Chanel branches in Sacco and Vanzetti street, which are larger (and selling the same products at higher prices) than the equivalents in Rodeo Drive of Beverly Hills.

    But nonetheless the overall statistics, across the whole city, are far lower incomes and wealth than in equivalent size Western European cities. (And the overall economic level of average people in Ekaterinburg is obviously vastly different [lower] to equivalent cities in Germany).

    With qualification, probably the economic data for the country overall are a bit of an underestimation, as more wealthy people will be on average be likely to keep their income a secret compared to in e.g. Germany (I would guess – I don’t know a lot about Germany).

  272. @Marcus
    @AP

    As much as I hate Ukrainian nationalists, their Russian counterparts often have an extremely hubristic view of the situation, e.g. to them Ukraine is a shithole, but it's also rightfully an integral part of Russia.

    Replies: @AP

    I’m not a fan of any nationalism (though I consider it a lesser evil than several other -isms), but why do you hate Ukrainian nationalists?

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @AP

    Because they kiss America (and to an extent, the entire West's) ass and have a pathetic victim complex.

    Replies: @AP

  273. @AP
    @Gerard2

    It's hilarious that the "worst" thing you could come up with about Lviv is that 1it, like Kharkiv, didn't host a team during the Euro 2012.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    The worst thing about Lvov – that the people (vast majority) are living in poverty.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    The worst thing about Lvov – that the people (vast majority) are living in poverty.
     
    Nonsense. Vast majority of people in Lviv are living normally. Visit and see for yourself. If not - videos and photos don't lie. Here is a random one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL1FWdYe1-g

    Collapse of the value of currency in international markets does not equal poverty. People are well dressed, well fed, they enjoy going out in the numerous cafes and restaurants, they visit the local resorts in the Carpathians.. "Vast majority" are not in poverty.

    Google image poverty to see what it actually looks like.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  274. @German_reader
    So this Vesti news service is owned by the Russian state...and uses terms like "white genocide"???
    What's the background behind that...just some enthusiasts acting on their personal beliefs or is there some strategy behind it?
    I don't watch Russia today, but I always got the impression it was fairly pc on matters of immigration, race, multiculturalism etc. (e.g. very much in favour of the Black Lives matter movement in the US)...is Russia now trying to diversify its media aimed at foreign audiences, to appeal to foreign nationalists?
    What a weird world we're living in.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anatoly Karlin, @Dante, @Dmitry, @songbird, @Chuck, @Anatoly Karlin

    BTW, German_reader (and Dmitry).

    I met a pretty influential Russia journalist yesterday. He unambiguously confirmed to me that Vesti News is a Rossiya Segodnya project.

    Independently confirmed here (the people this blog attracts!): https://www.unz.com/akarlin/refugees-welcome/#comment-2412638

    Apart from various fascinating tidbits about Russia’s elites that will have to remain under wraps, he also confirmed my casual impression that Simonyan is a liberal, while Kiselev is /ourguy/.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Anatoly Karlin

    It's part of the same media strategy though.

    Editorial intention of the actual report is that civilized white people want to live in Russia (i.e. boosting morale), with maybe some vague hint about decaying West (in relation to Germany).

    When it's uploaded on YouTube, the social media manager adds a title about the genocide of white population in South Africa - which is what German Reader was laughing about. This is specifically to increase the Western viewers (and search engine optimization - where "white genocide" phrase is something controversial and fashionable).

    Media coverage in Russia of the story (not only in this version), has no focus on this genocide, since South Africa (present authorities) are an ally and highlighting genocide of white population there is not relevant to theme of the decaying West.

    If South Africa decides to join NATO, then we will here all day about the white genocide there.

    Replies: @Gerard2

    , @German_reader
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Thanks, that's interesting.

  275. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @AP

    The worst thing about Lvov - that the people (vast majority) are living in poverty.

    Replies: @AP

    The worst thing about Lvov – that the people (vast majority) are living in poverty.

    Nonsense. Vast majority of people in Lviv are living normally. Visit and see for yourself. If not – videos and photos don’t lie. Here is a random one:

    Collapse of the value of currency in international markets does not equal poverty. People are well dressed, well fed, they enjoy going out in the numerous cafes and restaurants, they visit the local resorts in the Carpathians.. “Vast majority” are not in poverty.

    Google image poverty to see what it actually looks like.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP

    I have a friend from Odessa. As a direct result of all our ceaseless discussions here about this topic ( Karlin blog is open all day on my laptop browser and I was talking to him on Skype) I asked him about the economic situation really there, and his answer is just "completely fucked" and particularly the inflation this year. And "don't talk about it".

    Of course, this is matching all the data we are writing about in our comments.

    I've been through Lvov many years ago as a child, and cannot remember anything specially poor there. But the fact people can wear clean clothes in the streets, or no indications of malnutrition, does not indicate average salaries are a level which a normal person wants to live with.

    Replies: @AP

  276. @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    BTW, German_reader (and Dmitry).

    I met a pretty influential Russia journalist yesterday. He unambiguously confirmed to me that Vesti News is a Rossiya Segodnya project.

    Independently confirmed here (the people this blog attracts!): https://www.unz.com/akarlin/refugees-welcome/#comment-2412638

    Apart from various fascinating tidbits about Russia's elites that will have to remain under wraps, he also confirmed my casual impression that Simonyan is a liberal, while Kiselev is /ourguy/.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @German_reader

    It’s part of the same media strategy though.

    Editorial intention of the actual report is that civilized white people want to live in Russia (i.e. boosting morale), with maybe some vague hint about decaying West (in relation to Germany).

    When it’s uploaded on YouTube, the social media manager adds a title about the genocide of white population in South Africa – which is what German Reader was laughing about. This is specifically to increase the Western viewers (and search engine optimization – where “white genocide” phrase is something controversial and fashionable).

    Media coverage in Russia of the story (not only in this version), has no focus on this genocide, since South Africa (present authorities) are an ally and highlighting genocide of white population there is not relevant to theme of the decaying West.

    If South Africa decides to join NATO, then we will here all day about the white genocide there.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    @Dmitry


    If South Africa decides to join NATO, then we will here all day about the white genocide there.
     
    Russian media is the best, most accurate and most moral on the face of the earth

    Due to some, probably, Soros funded asswipes in South Africa, a Nuclear power station deal with South Africa , that Rosatom were to build -worth dozens of billions.....was shelved even though the Government had agreed and signed to it

    It would not surprise me if the whole scandal that forced Zuma to resign was basically a CIA plot designed to punish Zuma for pushing this ( now defunct) deal with Russia

    My point is that even with the shelved deal, Russian media didn't report unscrupulously on South Africa as a form of revenge for the scrapped deal ( and South Africa needs a long term, energy source like this)

    Replies: @Dmitry

  277. @AP
    @Dmitry


    The worst thing about Lvov – that the people (vast majority) are living in poverty.
     
    Nonsense. Vast majority of people in Lviv are living normally. Visit and see for yourself. If not - videos and photos don't lie. Here is a random one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL1FWdYe1-g

    Collapse of the value of currency in international markets does not equal poverty. People are well dressed, well fed, they enjoy going out in the numerous cafes and restaurants, they visit the local resorts in the Carpathians.. "Vast majority" are not in poverty.

    Google image poverty to see what it actually looks like.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    I have a friend from Odessa. As a direct result of all our ceaseless discussions here about this topic ( Karlin blog is open all day on my laptop browser and I was talking to him on Skype) I asked him about the economic situation really there, and his answer is just “completely fucked” and particularly the inflation this year. And “don’t talk about it”.

    Of course, this is matching all the data we are writing about in our comments.

    I’ve been through Lvov many years ago as a child, and cannot remember anything specially poor there. But the fact people can wear clean clothes in the streets, or no indications of malnutrition, does not indicate average salaries are a level which a normal person wants to live with.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry

    Lviv's situation is probably better than Odessa's. It has a booming tech industry, a lot of new factories being built and expanded, and any people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away.

    If you friend has normal clothes, has plenty of food, goes out once in a while for entertainment, owns stuff like a computer, smart phone, TV, has normal housing, etc. he is not "living in poverty." Simply having a lower salary than one would like, particularly in foreign currency, is not "living in poverty."

    Inflation is decreasing:

    https://theubj.com/news/view/ubjam-wednesday-july-10

    Replies: @Gerard2, @Dmitry

  278. German_reader says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    @German_reader

    BTW, German_reader (and Dmitry).

    I met a pretty influential Russia journalist yesterday. He unambiguously confirmed to me that Vesti News is a Rossiya Segodnya project.

    Independently confirmed here (the people this blog attracts!): https://www.unz.com/akarlin/refugees-welcome/#comment-2412638

    Apart from various fascinating tidbits about Russia's elites that will have to remain under wraps, he also confirmed my casual impression that Simonyan is a liberal, while Kiselev is /ourguy/.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @German_reader

    Thanks, that’s interesting.

  279. @Philip Owen
    @Mitleser

    Russia does not allow dual citizenship. It is necessary to produce a certificate of renunciation to become a Russian citizen.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @AP, @siberiancat

    I don’t recall Steven Seagal, or Jeff Monson renouncing their US citizenship.

  280. RT…has more yuppie Anglophone types, and is more directly aimed at the foreign left/liberal audience

    I don’t normally read/watch RT, but there was an opinion video by Max Keiser from 2011 regarding what he feels is a German “Fourth Reich”:

    I can’t tell if this was even representative, if not typical, of RT, let alone judge the efficacy of what Mr. Keiser was saying, and while I am by no means fond of the current German government or the EU, especially with Merkel’s mismanagement of the euro crisis, it makes me wonder about Mr. Keiser’s political leaning and whether or not he’s a shill for American “imperialism” (for lack of a better term). Heck, is it considered “imperialism” when America has military bases in various countries worldwide, including Germany?

    • Replies: @Josep
    @Josep

    My apologies, this was supposed to be in response to Mr. Karlin's comment (#20).

  281. @AP
    @Marcus

    I'm not a fan of any nationalism (though I consider it a lesser evil than several other -isms), but why do you hate Ukrainian nationalists?

    Replies: @Marcus

    Because they kiss America (and to an extent, the entire West’s) ass and have a pathetic victim complex.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Marcus


    Because they kiss America (and to an extent, the entire West’s) ass
     
    Do they? Don't confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for "kissing ass."

    pathetic victim complex.
     
    Other nationalists don't?

    Replies: @Marcus, @Gerard2

  282. @Josep

    RT...has more yuppie Anglophone types, and is more directly aimed at the foreign left/liberal audience
     
    I don't normally read/watch RT, but there was an opinion video by Max Keiser from 2011 regarding what he feels is a German "Fourth Reich":
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykhfxP3b6UY
    I can't tell if this was even representative, if not typical, of RT, let alone judge the efficacy of what Mr. Keiser was saying, and while I am by no means fond of the current German government or the EU, especially with Merkel's mismanagement of the euro crisis, it makes me wonder about Mr. Keiser's political leaning and whether or not he's a shill for American "imperialism" (for lack of a better term). Heck, is it considered "imperialism" when America has military bases in various countries worldwide, including Germany?

    Replies: @Josep

    My apologies, this was supposed to be in response to Mr. Karlin’s comment (#20).

  283. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @AP

    I have a friend from Odessa. As a direct result of all our ceaseless discussions here about this topic ( Karlin blog is open all day on my laptop browser and I was talking to him on Skype) I asked him about the economic situation really there, and his answer is just "completely fucked" and particularly the inflation this year. And "don't talk about it".

    Of course, this is matching all the data we are writing about in our comments.

    I've been through Lvov many years ago as a child, and cannot remember anything specially poor there. But the fact people can wear clean clothes in the streets, or no indications of malnutrition, does not indicate average salaries are a level which a normal person wants to live with.

    Replies: @AP

    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s. It has a booming tech industry, a lot of new factories being built and expanded, and any people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away.

    If you friend has normal clothes, has plenty of food, goes out once in a while for entertainment, owns stuff like a computer, smart phone, TV, has normal housing, etc. he is not “living in poverty.” Simply having a lower salary than one would like, particularly in foreign currency, is not “living in poverty.”

    Inflation is decreasing:

    https://theubj.com/news/view/ubjam-wednesday-july-10

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    @AP


    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s
     
    Another beneath contempt retarded lie


    It has a booming tech industry
     
    hahaha...errr no you lying cunt


    a lot of new factories being built and expanded

     

    ...really...no

    any people who really have trouble
     
    MANY people who really have trouble

    people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away

     

    errmmm that's a serious sigh of poverty you dumb prick, non-comparable with the Swiss-Fra-Belgium type of scenario. The vast majority of that is jobs on farms and of course..... toilet cleaning for the western Ukrainians you idiot. It's only when Novorossiyan Ukrainians ( about 20% of those who have made the journey to Poland after the coup) arrived that skilled jobs were available like engineer, technician etcetera....because they are from the qualified part of the country

    Jobs in Poland mean about 35% of the wages spent on accommodation and food...they aren't taking these jobs as a luxury you prick...but out of desperation and poverty and lack of work available to them ......comes about when what should be an advanced nation descends into an African-type one

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    , @Dmitry
    @AP


    If you friend has normal clothes, has plenty of food, goes out once in a while for entertainment, owns stuff like a computer, smart phone, TV, has normal housing, etc. he is not “living in poverty.” Simply having a lower salary than one would like, particularly in foreign currency, is not “living in poverty.”

     

    He's not poor at all - he's studying in the US now, preparing to apply for graduate school.

    He's talking about general situation of the economy, and the increase in prices.

    Everyone knows Ukraine is not having a famine. But the overall salaries are very low (equivalent to poorest cities in Russia), and I kind of doubt any of us (who do not work in Ukraine) would be happy to live like this, and neither are people in Ukraine.

    I think you said you are working in the West or Moscow (or it could be another user)? When you visit home, I'm sure you notice how cheap everything is for your salary.


    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s. It has a booming tech industry, a lot of new factories being built and expanded, and any people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away.

     

    There is starting to be a lot of outsourcing by startups (the startups from countries like Israel and US), to Ukraine, because the salaries are so low there.

    This is symptom of the very low salaries in Ukraine (it's like when Ford Motor Corporation outsources its car manufacturing to Mexico, because of lower salaries in Mexico).

    It's good for Ukraine's economy, but it's epistemically something which is an indication of the very low salaries there. So if it's something good, it's also a symptom of something very bad.

    Replies: @AP

  284. @Marcus
    @AP

    Because they kiss America (and to an extent, the entire West's) ass and have a pathetic victim complex.

    Replies: @AP

    Because they kiss America (and to an extent, the entire West’s) ass

    Do they? Don’t confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for “kissing ass.”

    pathetic victim complex.

    Other nationalists don’t?

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @AP


    Do they? Don’t confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for “kissing ass.”
     
    They put screwing over Russia ahead of their dignity as a nation

    Other nationalists don’t?
     
    True, but in the case of Ukraine it's horribly misplaced: they were, without a doubt, one of the "winners" of the 20th century, but you'd think they have been chattel slaves to Russians for a millennium from talking to them.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Gerard2
    @AP


    Do they? Don’t confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for “kissing ass.”
     
    LOL you thick POS......begging for handouts like a bunch of lepers

    Americans appointing who the Prime Minister is

    Such a lack of sovereignty their "independence " forces them to have Gay parades in Kiev.....something against the will of the majority of Kiev and overwhelmingly majority of Rada

    An artificial country controlled by Bandera coward scumbags who left the country in disgrace in the 194os and 50s, Poles, Gruzians, Lithuanians, Americans and Canadians


    Other nationalists don’t?
     
    Most nationalists have at least some supporting data for their ideas of nationhood.....not some fuckedup imaginary nonsense that the Ukrop freaks have.....other nationalists also dont have the braindead idea of severing 10s of billions of Russian money.....for the sake of clinging to a few billion of Russian money from gas transit fees that these parasites are desperate to have you idiot
  285. @AP
    @Marcus


    Because they kiss America (and to an extent, the entire West’s) ass
     
    Do they? Don't confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for "kissing ass."

    pathetic victim complex.
     
    Other nationalists don't?

    Replies: @Marcus, @Gerard2

    Do they? Don’t confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for “kissing ass.”

    They put screwing over Russia ahead of their dignity as a nation

    Other nationalists don’t?

    True, but in the case of Ukraine it’s horribly misplaced: they were, without a doubt, one of the “winners” of the 20th century, but you’d think they have been chattel slaves to Russians for a millennium from talking to them.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Marcus


    Do they? Don’t confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for “kissing ass.”

    They put screwing over Russia ahead of their dignity as a nation
     
    Being ruled by the slob Yanukovich (not even an ethnic Ukrainian) and the migrant Russian PM Azarov in a neo-Sovok state is far less dignified.

    Other nationalists don’t?

    True, but in the case of Ukraine it’s horribly misplaced: they were, without a doubt, one of the “winners” of the 20th century
     
    Their population is 9 million or so less than it should be (3 million killed plus their missing descendants) and the country went from 90% Ukrainian-speaking to 50% or so Ukrainian-speaking. They have a state now, which I suppose makes them better off than the Kurds, Catalans, and Scots, but those didn't lose millions.

    Replies: @Marcus

  286. AP says:
    @Marcus
    @AP


    Do they? Don’t confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for “kissing ass.”
     
    They put screwing over Russia ahead of their dignity as a nation

    Other nationalists don’t?
     
    True, but in the case of Ukraine it's horribly misplaced: they were, without a doubt, one of the "winners" of the 20th century, but you'd think they have been chattel slaves to Russians for a millennium from talking to them.

    Replies: @AP

    Do they? Don’t confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for “kissing ass.”

    They put screwing over Russia ahead of their dignity as a nation

    Being ruled by the slob Yanukovich (not even an ethnic Ukrainian) and the migrant Russian PM Azarov in a neo-Sovok state is far less dignified.

    Other nationalists don’t?

    True, but in the case of Ukraine it’s horribly misplaced: they were, without a doubt, one of the “winners” of the 20th century

    Their population is 9 million or so less than it should be (3 million killed plus their missing descendants) and the country went from 90% Ukrainian-speaking to 50% or so Ukrainian-speaking. They have a state now, which I suppose makes them better off than the Kurds, Catalans, and Scots, but those didn’t lose millions.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @AP

    There's nothing worse than being a dependency of the feminist homowest, you'll probably get flooded with Afreakans now as well, hope it was worth it.

    Not only do they have a country (which was not a certainty in 1900), areas that other countries have strong claims to were grafted onto it, the ancient Polish enemy was entirely removed, the south was Ukrainized, etc

    Replies: @AP

  287. @AP
    @Marcus


    Do they? Don’t confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for “kissing ass.”

    They put screwing over Russia ahead of their dignity as a nation
     
    Being ruled by the slob Yanukovich (not even an ethnic Ukrainian) and the migrant Russian PM Azarov in a neo-Sovok state is far less dignified.

    Other nationalists don’t?

    True, but in the case of Ukraine it’s horribly misplaced: they were, without a doubt, one of the “winners” of the 20th century
     
    Their population is 9 million or so less than it should be (3 million killed plus their missing descendants) and the country went from 90% Ukrainian-speaking to 50% or so Ukrainian-speaking. They have a state now, which I suppose makes them better off than the Kurds, Catalans, and Scots, but those didn't lose millions.

    Replies: @Marcus

    There’s nothing worse than being a dependency of the feminist homowest, you’ll probably get flooded with Afreakans now as well, hope it was worth it.

    Not only do they have a country (which was not a certainty in 1900), areas that other countries have strong claims to were grafted onto it, the ancient Polish enemy was entirely removed, the south was Ukrainized, etc

    • Replies: @AP
    @Marcus


    There’s nothing worse than being a dependency of the feminist homowest
     
    Good thing this is not the case, then.

    you’ll probably get flooded with Afreakans now as well, hope it was worth it.
     
    Poles were given the same threat, if they chose not to ally with Russia. Hasn't turned out.

    Not only do they have a country (which was not a certainty in 1900)
     
    Almost everyone else has one too. Scots chose not to have one. In Europe, only Catalans are stateless against their will.

    areas that other countries have strong claims to were grafted onto it
     
    Probably inevitable. Poland probably wasn't going to be able to hold onto Galicia and Volhynia. Crimea or Donbas weren't positive additions.

    the south was Ukrainized
     
    The South, like the rest of the central and eastern parts, was de-Ukrainianized to a large extent. The South used to be about 70% Ukrainian-speaking.

    It could have turned out worse. Nazis could have won the war and exterminated millions more, for instance. But de-Ukrainianization and millions dead indicate that it is incorrect to state that Ukraine was "without a doubt, one of the “winners” of the 20th century."

    Replies: @Marcus

  288. AP says:
    @Marcus
    @AP

    There's nothing worse than being a dependency of the feminist homowest, you'll probably get flooded with Afreakans now as well, hope it was worth it.

    Not only do they have a country (which was not a certainty in 1900), areas that other countries have strong claims to were grafted onto it, the ancient Polish enemy was entirely removed, the south was Ukrainized, etc

    Replies: @AP

    There’s nothing worse than being a dependency of the feminist homowest

    Good thing this is not the case, then.

    you’ll probably get flooded with Afreakans now as well, hope it was worth it.

    Poles were given the same threat, if they chose not to ally with Russia. Hasn’t turned out.

    Not only do they have a country (which was not a certainty in 1900)

    Almost everyone else has one too. Scots chose not to have one. In Europe, only Catalans are stateless against their will.

    areas that other countries have strong claims to were grafted onto it

    Probably inevitable. Poland probably wasn’t going to be able to hold onto Galicia and Volhynia. Crimea or Donbas weren’t positive additions.

    the south was Ukrainized

    The South, like the rest of the central and eastern parts, was de-Ukrainianized to a large extent. The South used to be about 70% Ukrainian-speaking.

    It could have turned out worse. Nazis could have won the war and exterminated millions more, for instance. But de-Ukrainianization and millions dead indicate that it is incorrect to state that Ukraine was “without a doubt, one of the “winners” of the 20th century.”

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @AP

    Are you sure? I've read that Odessa and vicinity were highly Ukrainized, and that the only area where the policy was reversed was the Kuban. Smaller population isn't necessarily worse, it would have probably just meant more poverty and more emigration to the West and Russia. Btw Poland has many more cards to play against Germany, so I wouldn't be so sure.

    Replies: @AP

  289. @AP
    @Marcus


    Because they kiss America (and to an extent, the entire West’s) ass
     
    Do they? Don't confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for "kissing ass."

    pathetic victim complex.
     
    Other nationalists don't?

    Replies: @Marcus, @Gerard2

    Do they? Don’t confuse friendly relations for purpose of mutual interests for “kissing ass.”

    LOL you thick POS……begging for handouts like a bunch of lepers

    Americans appointing who the Prime Minister is

    Such a lack of sovereignty their “independence ” forces them to have Gay parades in Kiev…..something against the will of the majority of Kiev and overwhelmingly majority of Rada

    An artificial country controlled by Bandera coward scumbags who left the country in disgrace in the 194os and 50s, Poles, Gruzians, Lithuanians, Americans and Canadians

    Other nationalists don’t?

    Most nationalists have at least some supporting data for their ideas of nationhood…..not some fuckedup imaginary nonsense that the Ukrop freaks have…..other nationalists also dont have the braindead idea of severing 10s of billions of Russian money…..for the sake of clinging to a few billion of Russian money from gas transit fees that these parasites are desperate to have you idiot

    • Agree: Marcus
  290. Heil Putler. Funniest thing I’ve read all day.

  291. @Mr. Hack
    @Cagey Beast

    Why the negative opinion of Ukrainians after the Euromaidan? Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements, indcluding Yanukovych's security police and persevered. It's just too bad that the politicians today still don't seem to understand what it was all about...

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Gerard2

    Why the negative opinion of Ukrainians after the Euromaidan? Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements, indcluding Yanukovych’s security police and persevered. It’s just too bad that the politicians today still don’t seem to understand what it was all about…

    What type of inbred moron comes up with these Hollywood-eque fantasist nonsense over an incredibly nightmarish situation?

    Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements

    0.1 % of these fucktards decided to standup ( courtesy of money from the State Department)….for months, lazy bums not going to work for months….over a perfectly rational decision by Yanukovich not to accept a suicidal Association agreement, that only seemed to be offered by the EU when Russia was able to offer a very compelling Eurasian Economic Union arrangement you idiot. During the Yushchenko time there wasn’t a hint of an EU Association deal on the table by these pricks

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Gerard2

    Complete rubbish. The whole thing was turned into a confrontation by Russian confrontation tactics starting with the customs blockade. Russia has traditionally been overeager to express their strength as a threat. We had the first world war because of this, for example. Cuba too.

  292. @AP
    @Dmitry

    Lviv's situation is probably better than Odessa's. It has a booming tech industry, a lot of new factories being built and expanded, and any people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away.

    If you friend has normal clothes, has plenty of food, goes out once in a while for entertainment, owns stuff like a computer, smart phone, TV, has normal housing, etc. he is not "living in poverty." Simply having a lower salary than one would like, particularly in foreign currency, is not "living in poverty."

    Inflation is decreasing:

    https://theubj.com/news/view/ubjam-wednesday-july-10

    Replies: @Gerard2, @Dmitry

    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s

    Another beneath contempt retarded lie

    It has a booming tech industry

    hahaha…errr no you lying cunt

    a lot of new factories being built and expanded

    …really…no

    any people who really have trouble

    MANY people who really have trouble

    people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away

    errmmm that’s a serious sigh of poverty you dumb prick, non-comparable with the Swiss-Fra-Belgium type of scenario. The vast majority of that is jobs on farms and of course….. toilet cleaning for the western Ukrainians you idiot. It’s only when Novorossiyan Ukrainians ( about 20% of those who have made the journey to Poland after the coup) arrived that skilled jobs were available like engineer, technician etcetera….because they are from the qualified part of the country

    Jobs in Poland mean about 35% of the wages spent on accommodation and food…they aren’t taking these jobs as a luxury you prick…but out of desperation and poverty and lack of work available to them ……comes about when what should be an advanced nation descends into an African-type one

    • Replies: @AP
    @Gerard2

    The only thing you are good for is providing a platform to spread info. You're also "good" for making Russians look bad, but I do not see that as a good thing.


    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s

    Another beneath contempt retarded lie
     
    Monthly wage in the oblast is about the same ($5.00 lower in Lviv than Odessa) but cost of living is lower in Lviv. Unemployment is less.

    It has a booming tech industry

    hahaha…errr no
     
    Hahaha..err yes:

    https://theubj.com/news/view/lviv-plans-150-million-it-city-to-cope-with-growth

    Around 20,000 IT workers, drawn from all over Ukraine, now work in the city. Earning salaries denominated in dollars, this IT workforce generates another 72,000 jobs in Lviv.

    “We calculated that every worker in tech creates another 3.6 jobs for the city,” says Veselovskyi. “So it's not surprising that the City Council wants more funding and investment into this area.”

    Their data indicates that the average salary for an IT worker in Lviv is $1,500 per month, higher than the national IT average. Advanced specialists can command salaries that match those in some parts of the EU—up to $6,000 per month.

    From 2016:

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/despite-a-war-this-ukrainian-citys-tech-sector-has-tripled-in-six-years/

    next to the EU border, and has 15,000 people employed as IT professionals -- about two percent of its population. They took the sector's turnover to €270m ($300m) last year: that's three times the figure for 2010, and 20 percent year-on-year growth

    a lot of new factories being built and expanded

    …really…no
     
    http://uprom.info/en/news/economy/biznes/na-lvivshhin-vidkril-noviy-zavod-elektrokontakt-ukrayina/

    n Brody, the third company in Lviv region, which belongs to the French concern Nexans, has already been opened. This is about the plant "ElectroContact Ukraine". President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko came to the official opening. The plant, which was waiting for ten years, was built for a year. Exactly a year ago, when the construction began, Poroshenko solemnly laid the capsule.

    The work here will receive almost 2,5 thousands of people. At the moment, already 500 employees have been recruited.

    https://theubj.com/news/view/german-seat-belt-manufacturer-eyes-big-investment-in-lviv

    Last year Fujikura, a Japanese car parts manufacturer, opened two plants west of Lviv city, just off the M10 highway to Poland. Jorge Garcia, Vice President of Fujikura Automotive Europe, predicted the total workforce of the two plants will hit 6,000 this year.

    Bader Ukraine, a German car upholstery producer for Audi and BMW, now employs 1,700 workers for its plant. It is located 20 km west of Lviv, also on the M10 highway to Poland.

    people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away

    errmmm that’s a serious sigh of poverty

     

    Let me guess: you think that all those Poles working in Germany and the UK is a serious sign of poverty in Poland. :-)

    ::::::::::::::
    , @Dmitry
    @Gerard2

    AP could be correct about jobs in hi-tech, because of the outsourcing of development work to Ukraine where the salaries are far lower.

    I was reading about this in relation to Israel.

    This is because the very low salaries in Ukraine (although I read about it happening in Odessa, Kharkov - not Lvov).


    Ukraine is the top destination with about 100 Israeli development centers. A strong tradition of maths and computer science teaching that is present in many countries in former Soviet Union countries means Ukraine has more than 20,000 IT graduates each year.
    ...

    Wix.com, which helps small businesses build websites and is one of Israel’s hottest tech companies, employs 120 workers in two development centers in Ukraine and another 80 at a site in Lithuania.

     

    https://reuters.com/article/uk-tech-israel-ukraine/short-of-it-workers-at-home-israeli-startups-recruit-elsewhere-idUKKBN19H0GD

    Replies: @AP

  293. @Dmitry
    @Anatoly Karlin

    It's part of the same media strategy though.

    Editorial intention of the actual report is that civilized white people want to live in Russia (i.e. boosting morale), with maybe some vague hint about decaying West (in relation to Germany).

    When it's uploaded on YouTube, the social media manager adds a title about the genocide of white population in South Africa - which is what German Reader was laughing about. This is specifically to increase the Western viewers (and search engine optimization - where "white genocide" phrase is something controversial and fashionable).

    Media coverage in Russia of the story (not only in this version), has no focus on this genocide, since South Africa (present authorities) are an ally and highlighting genocide of white population there is not relevant to theme of the decaying West.

    If South Africa decides to join NATO, then we will here all day about the white genocide there.

    Replies: @Gerard2

    If South Africa decides to join NATO, then we will here all day about the white genocide there.

    Russian media is the best, most accurate and most moral on the face of the earth

    Due to some, probably, Soros funded asswipes in South Africa, a Nuclear power station deal with South Africa , that Rosatom were to build -worth dozens of billions…..was shelved even though the Government had agreed and signed to it

    It would not surprise me if the whole scandal that forced Zuma to resign was basically a CIA plot designed to punish Zuma for pushing this ( now defunct) deal with Russia

    My point is that even with the shelved deal, Russian media didn’t report unscrupulously on South Africa as a form of revenge for the scrapped deal ( and South Africa needs a long term, energy source like this)

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Gerard2

    A lot of South Africans study in Russian universities with scholarships each year. But it's including people from poorer demographics of South Africa (it's not Boers which Karlin is hoping about).

  294. @Philip Owen
    @Okechukwu

    Good points. My group was looking for places for "second sons" as an insurance policy against Zimbabwean type nationalisation (there were no treaties in place when the Afrikaners trekked to Transvaal. Rhodes sometimes took the same approach) rather than rejection of life in South Africa as such. It could be regarded as overseas investment by South Africa.

    They did notice that the largely Protestant Volga Germans were removed by force after 200 years in the country. It wasn't a big factor but not a plus point either.

    Replies: @Gerard2

    Although millions of white South Africans have left South Africa after the end of Apartheid to go to Australia, New Zealand, UK, US ( as have many Indian South Africans and African south Africans)……..it’s prudent to note that the white population of South Africa has actually increased since then.

    Compare this to a shithole like Ukraine that has experienced a catastrophic loss of population throughout the 25 years, even though they were highly educated, owned decent property given to them from Soviet times… and have had a much lower murder rate than South Africa had ,and continues to have

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Gerard2

    The Afrikaners have big families. That is a large part of the motivation to look for large areas of cheap land elsewhere. I referenced 2nd sons in an earlier comment. They don't seem in a panic. Cheap land for 49 years was not attractive. They want inalienable ownership. And as I said, although it wasn't high on the list, they noted what happened to the Volga Germans.

    Replies: @Rattus Norwegius

  295. @Felix Keverich
    Actually, I'm not sure this is such a good idea. Russia is not the most comfortable place to live in - these people will grow disillusioned quickly. Their kids will move to the city and become leaders in Russian LGBTQ movement (because Dutch DNA).

    I know that Russia can't be worse, than South Africa, but at least back there they had a traditional lifestyle to cling to. In Russia it won't be the same.

    [email protected], I wrote my comment before I saw yours. But Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter - there WILL be disillusioned Boers.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Beckow, @The Big Red Scary, @pyrrhus, @Swan Knight, @Anonymous

    Disillusioned?? After moving to a country where they don’t face murder every day from the black population, and where the schools and universities are far better than S. Africa’s?

  296. AP says:
    @Gerard2
    @AP


    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s
     
    Another beneath contempt retarded lie


    It has a booming tech industry
     
    hahaha...errr no you lying cunt


    a lot of new factories being built and expanded

     

    ...really...no

    any people who really have trouble
     
    MANY people who really have trouble

    people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away

     

    errmmm that's a serious sigh of poverty you dumb prick, non-comparable with the Swiss-Fra-Belgium type of scenario. The vast majority of that is jobs on farms and of course..... toilet cleaning for the western Ukrainians you idiot. It's only when Novorossiyan Ukrainians ( about 20% of those who have made the journey to Poland after the coup) arrived that skilled jobs were available like engineer, technician etcetera....because they are from the qualified part of the country

    Jobs in Poland mean about 35% of the wages spent on accommodation and food...they aren't taking these jobs as a luxury you prick...but out of desperation and poverty and lack of work available to them ......comes about when what should be an advanced nation descends into an African-type one

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    The only thing you are good for is providing a platform to spread info. You’re also “good” for making Russians look bad, but I do not see that as a good thing.

    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s

    Another beneath contempt retarded lie

    Monthly wage in the oblast is about the same ($5.00 lower in Lviv than Odessa) but cost of living is lower in Lviv. Unemployment is less.

    It has a booming tech industry

    hahaha…errr no

    Hahaha..err yes:

    https://theubj.com/news/view/lviv-plans-150-million-it-city-to-cope-with-growth

    Around 20,000 IT workers, drawn from all over Ukraine, now work in the city. Earning salaries denominated in dollars, this IT workforce generates another 72,000 jobs in Lviv.

    “We calculated that every worker in tech creates another 3.6 jobs for the city,” says Veselovskyi. “So it’s not surprising that the City Council wants more funding and investment into this area.”

    Their data indicates that the average salary for an IT worker in Lviv is $1,500 per month, higher than the national IT average. Advanced specialists can command salaries that match those in some parts of the EU—up to $6,000 per month.

    From 2016:

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/despite-a-war-this-ukrainian-citys-tech-sector-has-tripled-in-six-years/

    next to the EU border, and has 15,000 people employed as IT professionals — about two percent of its population. They took the sector’s turnover to €270m ($300m) last year: that’s three times the figure for 2010, and 20 percent year-on-year growth

    a lot of new factories being built and expanded

    …really…no

    http://uprom.info/en/news/economy/biznes/na-lvivshhin-vidkril-noviy-zavod-elektrokontakt-ukrayina/

    n Brody, the third company in Lviv region, which belongs to the French concern Nexans, has already been opened. This is about the plant “ElectroContact Ukraine”. President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko came to the official opening. The plant, which was waiting for ten years, was built for a year. Exactly a year ago, when the construction began, Poroshenko solemnly laid the capsule.

    The work here will receive almost 2,5 thousands of people. At the moment, already 500 employees have been recruited.

    https://theubj.com/news/view/german-seat-belt-manufacturer-eyes-big-investment-in-lviv

    Last year Fujikura, a Japanese car parts manufacturer, opened two plants west of Lviv city, just off the M10 highway to Poland. Jorge Garcia, Vice President of Fujikura Automotive Europe, predicted the total workforce of the two plants will hit 6,000 this year.

    Bader Ukraine, a German car upholstery producer for Audi and BMW, now employs 1,700 workers for its plant. It is located 20 km west of Lviv, also on the M10 highway to Poland.

    people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away

    errmmm that’s a serious sigh of poverty

    Let me guess: you think that all those Poles working in Germany and the UK is a serious sign of poverty in Poland. 🙂

    ::::::::::::::

  297. @German_reader
    @DFH

    I know, I should have mentioned that...but movies about German crimes would be the easy part (there's also an export market for that). I just wondered how Russian nationalists would deal with the "genocides" of Bolshevism and of liberalism in the 1990s.

    Replies: @Toronto Russian, @iffen

    I just wondered how Russian nationalists would deal with the “genocides” of Bolshevism and of liberalism in the 1990s.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Upon_a_Time_There_Lived_a_Simple_Woman
    “In an interview with Larisa Malyukova for Novaya Gazeta in 2008, Smirnov tackled the idea of nationalism for his planned film: “I think that this motion picture should not contain a sugarcoated idealization of the nation, nor scandalous disclosures. There are pros and cons. But most importantly, it seems to me that the film has such a love for Russia in it, but not a patriot’s fanfares. Love as a synonym for pain.”

  298. @AP
    @Marcus


    There’s nothing worse than being a dependency of the feminist homowest
     
    Good thing this is not the case, then.

    you’ll probably get flooded with Afreakans now as well, hope it was worth it.
     
    Poles were given the same threat, if they chose not to ally with Russia. Hasn't turned out.

    Not only do they have a country (which was not a certainty in 1900)
     
    Almost everyone else has one too. Scots chose not to have one. In Europe, only Catalans are stateless against their will.

    areas that other countries have strong claims to were grafted onto it
     
    Probably inevitable. Poland probably wasn't going to be able to hold onto Galicia and Volhynia. Crimea or Donbas weren't positive additions.

    the south was Ukrainized
     
    The South, like the rest of the central and eastern parts, was de-Ukrainianized to a large extent. The South used to be about 70% Ukrainian-speaking.

    It could have turned out worse. Nazis could have won the war and exterminated millions more, for instance. But de-Ukrainianization and millions dead indicate that it is incorrect to state that Ukraine was "without a doubt, one of the “winners” of the 20th century."

    Replies: @Marcus

    Are you sure? I’ve read that Odessa and vicinity were highly Ukrainized, and that the only area where the policy was reversed was the Kuban. Smaller population isn’t necessarily worse, it would have probably just meant more poverty and more emigration to the West and Russia. Btw Poland has many more cards to play against Germany, so I wouldn’t be so sure.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Marcus


    Are you sure? I’ve read that Odessa and vicinity were highly Ukrainized, and that the only area where the policy was reversed was the Kuban.
     
    Cities became "Ukrainianized" when the urban population grew and peasants moved into them. So the city of Odessa became more Ukrainian. This was an inevitable process. Typically, as in previously German-speaking Prague, the language of the city shifts to reflect the new demographics.

    What the Soviets did, however, was to unnaturally make the peasants learn Russian rather than to retain their own language as they moved into the city. As a result, % of Ukrainian-speakers collapsed in the 2oth century.

    1897 census:

    http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/ssp/rus_lan_97.php

    It went by language, not ethnicity. By language, Kherson governate (which is basically Odessa plus Kherson plus Mykolaiv oblasts) was 53% Ukrainian-speaking (i.e., Little Russian speaking). This region is not 53% Ukrainian-speaking now.

    Katerynoslav governate (Dniproperovsk oblast) was 69% Ukrainian-speaking. It is not that now.

    Kiev governate was only 6% Russian-speaking! This was almost as little as Warsaw region.

    only area where the policy was reversed was the Kuban.
     
    At the end of the 19th century Kuban was about 50% Ukrainian; at the end of the 20th it was under 5%.

    Replies: @Marcus

  299. AP says:
    @Marcus
    @AP

    Are you sure? I've read that Odessa and vicinity were highly Ukrainized, and that the only area where the policy was reversed was the Kuban. Smaller population isn't necessarily worse, it would have probably just meant more poverty and more emigration to the West and Russia. Btw Poland has many more cards to play against Germany, so I wouldn't be so sure.

    Replies: @AP

    Are you sure? I’ve read that Odessa and vicinity were highly Ukrainized, and that the only area where the policy was reversed was the Kuban.

    Cities became “Ukrainianized” when the urban population grew and peasants moved into them. So the city of Odessa became more Ukrainian. This was an inevitable process. Typically, as in previously German-speaking Prague, the language of the city shifts to reflect the new demographics.

    What the Soviets did, however, was to unnaturally make the peasants learn Russian rather than to retain their own language as they moved into the city. As a result, % of Ukrainian-speakers collapsed in the 2oth century.

    1897 census:

    http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/ssp/rus_lan_97.php

    It went by language, not ethnicity. By language, Kherson governate (which is basically Odessa plus Kherson plus Mykolaiv oblasts) was 53% Ukrainian-speaking (i.e., Little Russian speaking). This region is not 53% Ukrainian-speaking now.

    Katerynoslav governate (Dniproperovsk oblast) was 69% Ukrainian-speaking. It is not that now.

    Kiev governate was only 6% Russian-speaking! This was almost as little as Warsaw region.

    only area where the policy was reversed was the Kuban.

    At the end of the 19th century Kuban was about 50% Ukrainian; at the end of the 20th it was under 5%.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @AP

    But that was part of the policy: to put Ukrainians in positions of influence in industry, party leadership, etc. As for being natural, Ukrainization was vehemently opposed by many, including ethnic Ukrainians who were accustomed to teaching in Russian for example.

    Replies: @AP

  300. @Gerard2
    @Mr. Hack


    Why the negative opinion of Ukrainians after the Euromaidan? Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements, indcluding Yanukovych’s security police and persevered. It’s just too bad that the politicians today still don’t seem to understand what it was all about…
     
    What type of inbred moron comes up with these Hollywood-eque fantasist nonsense over an incredibly nightmarish situation?

    Ukrainians bravely stood up to all of the elements
     
    0.1 % of these fucktards decided to standup ( courtesy of money from the State Department)....for months, lazy bums not going to work for months....over a perfectly rational decision by Yanukovich not to accept a suicidal Association agreement, that only seemed to be offered by the EU when Russia was able to offer a very compelling Eurasian Economic Union arrangement you idiot. During the Yushchenko time there wasn't a hint of an EU Association deal on the table by these pricks

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    Complete rubbish. The whole thing was turned into a confrontation by Russian confrontation tactics starting with the customs blockade. Russia has traditionally been overeager to express their strength as a threat. We had the first world war because of this, for example. Cuba too.

  301. @Gerard2
    @Philip Owen

    Although millions of white South Africans have left South Africa after the end of Apartheid to go to Australia, New Zealand, UK, US ( as have many Indian South Africans and African south Africans)........it's prudent to note that the white population of South Africa has actually increased since then.

    Compare this to a shithole like Ukraine that has experienced a catastrophic loss of population throughout the 25 years, even though they were highly educated, owned decent property given to them from Soviet times... and have had a much lower murder rate than South Africa had ,and continues to have

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    The Afrikaners have big families. That is a large part of the motivation to look for large areas of cheap land elsewhere. I referenced 2nd sons in an earlier comment. They don’t seem in a panic. Cheap land for 49 years was not attractive. They want inalienable ownership. And as I said, although it wasn’t high on the list, they noted what happened to the Volga Germans.

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
    @Philip Owen

    "The Afrikaners have big families."
    Do they? According to wikipedia White South Africans have a fertility rate of 1,7. Maybe the Afrikaners you have met does not represent the average Afrikaner. Perhaps Afrikaners have a higher fertility rate than British South Africans though? The White South African TFR is the product of mostly Afrikaners and British South Africans with some input from white minorities.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

  302. @AP
    @Marcus


    Are you sure? I’ve read that Odessa and vicinity were highly Ukrainized, and that the only area where the policy was reversed was the Kuban.
     
    Cities became "Ukrainianized" when the urban population grew and peasants moved into them. So the city of Odessa became more Ukrainian. This was an inevitable process. Typically, as in previously German-speaking Prague, the language of the city shifts to reflect the new demographics.

    What the Soviets did, however, was to unnaturally make the peasants learn Russian rather than to retain their own language as they moved into the city. As a result, % of Ukrainian-speakers collapsed in the 2oth century.

    1897 census:

    http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/ssp/rus_lan_97.php

    It went by language, not ethnicity. By language, Kherson governate (which is basically Odessa plus Kherson plus Mykolaiv oblasts) was 53% Ukrainian-speaking (i.e., Little Russian speaking). This region is not 53% Ukrainian-speaking now.

    Katerynoslav governate (Dniproperovsk oblast) was 69% Ukrainian-speaking. It is not that now.

    Kiev governate was only 6% Russian-speaking! This was almost as little as Warsaw region.

    only area where the policy was reversed was the Kuban.
     
    At the end of the 19th century Kuban was about 50% Ukrainian; at the end of the 20th it was under 5%.

    Replies: @Marcus

    But that was part of the policy: to put Ukrainians in positions of influence in industry, party leadership, etc. As for being natural, Ukrainization was vehemently opposed by many, including ethnic Ukrainians who were accustomed to teaching in Russian for example.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Marcus


    But that was part of the policy: to put Ukrainians in positions of influence in industry, party leadership
     
    In the 1920s, Ukrainians were something like 25% of party leadership in Ukraine. Efforts to change this did no more than give them parity with respect to their population percentage.

    As for being natural, Ukrainization was vehemently opposed by many, including ethnic Ukrainians who were accustomed to teaching in Russian for example.
     
    Many perhaps (especially the Russian minority - Bulgakov made fun of Ukrainianazation), but certainly not most. Political parties supporting Ukrainianization got the majority of the vote in the 1917 pre-Soviet elections. Large numbers of Ukrainian schools opened up under the Hetman and Rada, and continued under the Bolsheviks at first (first Bolshevik government cracked down on Ukrainianization, after it was thrown out later ones left the issue alone). Totally natural process, akin to the Czech-language schools opening in Bohemia in the 19th century for the newly literate Czech peasants despite grumbling from Germans.

    The call to reverse Ukrainianization in the schools came from Moscow, later on.

    Replies: @Marcus

  303. AP says:
    @Marcus
    @AP

    But that was part of the policy: to put Ukrainians in positions of influence in industry, party leadership, etc. As for being natural, Ukrainization was vehemently opposed by many, including ethnic Ukrainians who were accustomed to teaching in Russian for example.

    Replies: @AP

    But that was part of the policy: to put Ukrainians in positions of influence in industry, party leadership

    In the 1920s, Ukrainians were something like 25% of party leadership in Ukraine. Efforts to change this did no more than give them parity with respect to their population percentage.

    As for being natural, Ukrainization was vehemently opposed by many, including ethnic Ukrainians who were accustomed to teaching in Russian for example.

    Many perhaps (especially the Russian minority – Bulgakov made fun of Ukrainianazation), but certainly not most. Political parties supporting Ukrainianization got the majority of the vote in the 1917 pre-Soviet elections. Large numbers of Ukrainian schools opened up under the Hetman and Rada, and continued under the Bolsheviks at first (first Bolshevik government cracked down on Ukrainianization, after it was thrown out later ones left the issue alone). Totally natural process, akin to the Czech-language schools opening in Bohemia in the 19th century for the newly literate Czech peasants despite grumbling from Germans.

    The call to reverse Ukrainianization in the schools came from Moscow, later on.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @AP

    From memoirs of the Soviet defector Viktor Kravchenko:


    In theory we Ukrainians in the student body should have been pleased. In practice we were as distressed by the innovation as the non-Ukrainian minority. Even those who, like myself, had spoken Ukrainian from childhood, were not accustomed to its use as a medium of study. Several of our best professors were utterly demoralized by the linguistic switch-over. Worst of all, our local tongue simply had not caught up with modern knowledge; its vocabulary was unsuited to the purposes of electrotechnics, chemistry, aerodynamics, physics and most other sciences.
     
    http://www.belousenko.com/books/Berberova/kravchenko_i_chose_freedom_english.htm

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @AP, @AP

  304. @German_reader
    @DFH

    I know, I should have mentioned that...but movies about German crimes would be the easy part (there's also an export market for that). I just wondered how Russian nationalists would deal with the "genocides" of Bolshevism and of liberalism in the 1990s.

    Replies: @Toronto Russian, @iffen

    I just wondered how Russian nationalists would deal with the “genocides” of Bolshevism and of liberalism

    1) Obviously people who are not Jewish can make good movies, but the disproportionate representation of Jews in the industry will be in evidence in the films produced.

    2) They seem to have perfected, better, or as well as any group, the ability to fight it out and still remain unified at the end. After all, they fought it out with plenty of deaths as recently as the founding of Israel. (The Debt is a great movie and is full of introspection and moral and existential questions.)

    3) The unity is lacking for Russians. How could you have epics on WWII if many of your target audience hold the beliefs that AK does about the GPW? (Dr. Zhivago is a hell of a movie, so obviously it can be done.)

    They are good at making movies and they are good at keeping a coherent vision of a sort that ties most of them together in a strong, but not stifling way.

  305. Anatoly (if you are still reading this huge comment section),

    Although conditions here in the states are not nearly as bad as things in poor South Africa, Christianity is clearly increasingly frowned upon in America. If American religious “liberty” continues on its downward spiral towards the abyss of SJW chaos (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Act_(Indiana)) and neo-pagan blasphemy (e.g. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/satanic-mockery-of-mary-only-helps-unite-oklahoma-christians-in-prayer-40335), what are the chances that Russia would be willing to welcome refugees from America who were similar to the Boers? I.e. 1) Not Russian Orthodox (I myself am traditional (Latin Mass) Catholic), 2) Not likely to be Russophones within the first or even second generations, but 3) Talented and valuable, possibly able to teach English, etc, and contribute to Russian society? The question is, of course, highly speculative. And since I love the family tradition and natural beauty of where I personally live (and don’t speak any Russian), I would of course prefer to fight it out (hopefully not literally…) at home.

    Ironically, one of my best friends includes among his ancestors a Volga German who had to flee Russia during the Revolution. And now I am seriously wondering if Russia would accept us American Christians as refugees in a hypothetical (?) dystopian America….

  306. @AP
    @Marcus


    But that was part of the policy: to put Ukrainians in positions of influence in industry, party leadership
     
    In the 1920s, Ukrainians were something like 25% of party leadership in Ukraine. Efforts to change this did no more than give them parity with respect to their population percentage.

    As for being natural, Ukrainization was vehemently opposed by many, including ethnic Ukrainians who were accustomed to teaching in Russian for example.
     
    Many perhaps (especially the Russian minority - Bulgakov made fun of Ukrainianazation), but certainly not most. Political parties supporting Ukrainianization got the majority of the vote in the 1917 pre-Soviet elections. Large numbers of Ukrainian schools opened up under the Hetman and Rada, and continued under the Bolsheviks at first (first Bolshevik government cracked down on Ukrainianization, after it was thrown out later ones left the issue alone). Totally natural process, akin to the Czech-language schools opening in Bohemia in the 19th century for the newly literate Czech peasants despite grumbling from Germans.

    The call to reverse Ukrainianization in the schools came from Moscow, later on.

    Replies: @Marcus

    From memoirs of the Soviet defector Viktor Kravchenko:

    In theory we Ukrainians in the student body should have been pleased. In practice we were as distressed by the innovation as the non-Ukrainian minority. Even those who, like myself, had spoken Ukrainian from childhood, were not accustomed to its use as a medium of study. Several of our best professors were utterly demoralized by the linguistic switch-over. Worst of all, our local tongue simply had not caught up with modern knowledge; its vocabulary was unsuited to the purposes of electrotechnics, chemistry, aerodynamics, physics and most other sciences.

    http://www.belousenko.com/books/Berberova/kravchenko_i_chose_freedom_english.htm

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Marcus

    It should be noted that the Japanese for transistor is transistor. There is a Welsh word for internet but everyone says Internet. Lack of technical words is hardly specific to Ukrainian especially given the closeness of the language to Russian. i was amazed at how much Russian was packed with MODERN borrowing from English in the 1990's. Even behind Soviet isolation words and fashions crossed the frontier.

    Replies: @artichoke

    , @AP
    @Marcus


    Even those who, like myself, had spoken Ukrainian from childhood, were not accustomed to its use as a medium of study.
     
    So it seems he started out studying in Russian, rather than studying in Ukrainian from the very beginning, and switched over.
    , @AP
    @Marcus

    OK, I read the original. He studied in Russian throughout school, Ukrainianization occurred when he went to college (Institute). The changeopver was hard.

    This wasn't applicable to peasant kids going to school in Ukrainian from the beginning, as would have naturally occurred and which did occur before the Bolsheviks shut down the natural process. They wouldn't have struggled, and didn't (one of my grandparents, from central Ukraine, was such a kid). Kids in Ukraine who study in Ukrainian from grade school don't struggle either. But Kravchenko had gone all the way through high school only studying in Russian so it was hard for him and his classmates to change over.

    Replies: @Marcus

  307. @Marcus
    @AP

    From memoirs of the Soviet defector Viktor Kravchenko:


    In theory we Ukrainians in the student body should have been pleased. In practice we were as distressed by the innovation as the non-Ukrainian minority. Even those who, like myself, had spoken Ukrainian from childhood, were not accustomed to its use as a medium of study. Several of our best professors were utterly demoralized by the linguistic switch-over. Worst of all, our local tongue simply had not caught up with modern knowledge; its vocabulary was unsuited to the purposes of electrotechnics, chemistry, aerodynamics, physics and most other sciences.
     
    http://www.belousenko.com/books/Berberova/kravchenko_i_chose_freedom_english.htm

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @AP, @AP

    It should be noted that the Japanese for transistor is transistor. There is a Welsh word for internet but everyone says Internet. Lack of technical words is hardly specific to Ukrainian especially given the closeness of the language to Russian. i was amazed at how much Russian was packed with MODERN borrowing from English in the 1990’s. Even behind Soviet isolation words and fashions crossed the frontier.

    • Replies: @artichoke
    @Philip Owen

    Yes, those Russian technical terms that are (or were) missing from Ukrainian were probably transliterated from English. Simple syllabic approximation, totally unconnected to Russian language roots or conventions.

  308. @Marcus
    @AP

    From memoirs of the Soviet defector Viktor Kravchenko:


    In theory we Ukrainians in the student body should have been pleased. In practice we were as distressed by the innovation as the non-Ukrainian minority. Even those who, like myself, had spoken Ukrainian from childhood, were not accustomed to its use as a medium of study. Several of our best professors were utterly demoralized by the linguistic switch-over. Worst of all, our local tongue simply had not caught up with modern knowledge; its vocabulary was unsuited to the purposes of electrotechnics, chemistry, aerodynamics, physics and most other sciences.
     
    http://www.belousenko.com/books/Berberova/kravchenko_i_chose_freedom_english.htm

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @AP, @AP

    Even those who, like myself, had spoken Ukrainian from childhood, were not accustomed to its use as a medium of study.

    So it seems he started out studying in Russian, rather than studying in Ukrainian from the very beginning, and switched over.

  309. AP says:
    @Marcus
    @AP

    From memoirs of the Soviet defector Viktor Kravchenko:


    In theory we Ukrainians in the student body should have been pleased. In practice we were as distressed by the innovation as the non-Ukrainian minority. Even those who, like myself, had spoken Ukrainian from childhood, were not accustomed to its use as a medium of study. Several of our best professors were utterly demoralized by the linguistic switch-over. Worst of all, our local tongue simply had not caught up with modern knowledge; its vocabulary was unsuited to the purposes of electrotechnics, chemistry, aerodynamics, physics and most other sciences.
     
    http://www.belousenko.com/books/Berberova/kravchenko_i_chose_freedom_english.htm

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @AP, @AP

    OK, I read the original. He studied in Russian throughout school, Ukrainianization occurred when he went to college (Institute). The changeopver was hard.

    This wasn’t applicable to peasant kids going to school in Ukrainian from the beginning, as would have naturally occurred and which did occur before the Bolsheviks shut down the natural process. They wouldn’t have struggled, and didn’t (one of my grandparents, from central Ukraine, was such a kid). Kids in Ukraine who study in Ukrainian from grade school don’t struggle either. But Kravchenko had gone all the way through high school only studying in Russian so it was hard for him and his classmates to change over.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @AP

    So you think overall Ukrainization was a failure or just the language policy? It's arguable that all the general secretaries after Stalin were at least partly Ukrainian. Unlikely that they would have achieved that much in the empire, though there were some prominent Rusyn noblemen in imperial service IIRC.

    Replies: @AP

  310. @AP
    @Marcus

    OK, I read the original. He studied in Russian throughout school, Ukrainianization occurred when he went to college (Institute). The changeopver was hard.

    This wasn't applicable to peasant kids going to school in Ukrainian from the beginning, as would have naturally occurred and which did occur before the Bolsheviks shut down the natural process. They wouldn't have struggled, and didn't (one of my grandparents, from central Ukraine, was such a kid). Kids in Ukraine who study in Ukrainian from grade school don't struggle either. But Kravchenko had gone all the way through high school only studying in Russian so it was hard for him and his classmates to change over.

    Replies: @Marcus

    So you think overall Ukrainization was a failure or just the language policy? It’s arguable that all the general secretaries after Stalin were at least partly Ukrainian. Unlikely that they would have achieved that much in the empire, though there were some prominent Rusyn noblemen in imperial service IIRC.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Marcus


    So you think overall Ukrainization was a failure or just the language policy?
     
    The natural process was that as peasants became literate they kept their language, and cities that had spoken a different language switched it the peasant language along with urbanization and the growth of cities. This happened in the Baltics (cities had previously been German-speaking), Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, and Galicia (ironically under the Soviets who deemed Ukrainian a lesser evil than Polish). This process began in Russian Empire Ukraine in 1917 (in some cases earlier) but was ended by the Bolsheviks in the early 1930s, when they arrested and deported or shot a lot of Ukrainian teachers and forced many of the incoming peasants to study in Russian. They allowed the Ukrainian schools to continue to exist in the villages so it was not a complete wipe-out as was done in 19th century France. But rather than Kiev becoming a Ukrainian-speaking city as Ukrainians moved in from the countryside, it grew into a huge ethnic Ukrainian but Russian-speaking city.

    It’s arguable that all the general secretaries after Stalin were at least partly Ukrainian.
     
    Khrushchev and Andropov weren't. Brezhnev is questionable, Chernenko and Gorbie were half-Ukrainian.

    though there were some prominent Rusyn noblemen in imperial service IIRC.
     
    Catherine the Great's Chancellor was an ethnic Ukrainian nobleman:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Bezborodko

    Prince Alexander Andreyevich Bezborodko (Russian: Алекса́ндр Андре́евич Безборо́дко; Ukrainian: Олександр Андрійович Безбородько;25 March [O.S. 14 March] 1747 – 6 April 1799) was the Grand Chancellor of Russia and chief architect of Catherine the Great's foreign policy after the death of Nikita Panin.

    ::::::::::::::

    He is rumored to have been the anonymous author of a proto-Ukrainian nationalist script contrasting Little Russians, true heirs of ancient Rus, and Tatar-like Great Russians:

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CI%5CS%5CIstoriiaRusovIT.htm

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Rattus Norwegius, @Marcus

  311. @AP
    @Dmitry

    Lviv's situation is probably better than Odessa's. It has a booming tech industry, a lot of new factories being built and expanded, and any people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away.

    If you friend has normal clothes, has plenty of food, goes out once in a while for entertainment, owns stuff like a computer, smart phone, TV, has normal housing, etc. he is not "living in poverty." Simply having a lower salary than one would like, particularly in foreign currency, is not "living in poverty."

    Inflation is decreasing:

    https://theubj.com/news/view/ubjam-wednesday-july-10

    Replies: @Gerard2, @Dmitry

    If you friend has normal clothes, has plenty of food, goes out once in a while for entertainment, owns stuff like a computer, smart phone, TV, has normal housing, etc. he is not “living in poverty.” Simply having a lower salary than one would like, particularly in foreign currency, is not “living in poverty.”

    He’s not poor at all – he’s studying in the US now, preparing to apply for graduate school.

    He’s talking about general situation of the economy, and the increase in prices.

    Everyone knows Ukraine is not having a famine. But the overall salaries are very low (equivalent to poorest cities in Russia), and I kind of doubt any of us (who do not work in Ukraine) would be happy to live like this, and neither are people in Ukraine.

    I think you said you are working in the West or Moscow (or it could be another user)? When you visit home, I’m sure you notice how cheap everything is for your salary.

    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s. It has a booming tech industry, a lot of new factories being built and expanded, and any people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away.

    There is starting to be a lot of outsourcing by startups (the startups from countries like Israel and US), to Ukraine, because the salaries are so low there.

    This is symptom of the very low salaries in Ukraine (it’s like when Ford Motor Corporation outsources its car manufacturing to Mexico, because of lower salaries in Mexico).

    It’s good for Ukraine’s economy, but it’s epistemically something which is an indication of the very low salaries there. So if it’s something good, it’s also a symptom of something very bad.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    Everyone knows Ukraine is not having a famine. But the overall salaries are very low (equivalent to poorest cities in Russia)
     
    Would you claim that vast majority of people in, say, Volgograd, are "living in poverty?" I wouldn't.

    There is starting to be a lot of outsourcing by startups (the startups from countries like Israel and US), to Ukraine, because the salaries are so low there.
     
    It started years ago.

    This is symptom of the very low salaries in Ukraine (it’s like when Ford Motor Corporation outsources its car manufacturing to Mexico, because of lower salaries in Mexico)
     
    Sure. But the salaries are still very good by local standards ($1,500 per month on average for programmers). $1,500 in Lviv is like $4,000 in Moscow. Programmers have moved from Russia back to Lviv.


    One of my cousins is a manager in one of those companies in Lviv. He has a large (even by Western standards) house, normal Western car, and takes his family skiing every year to the Swiss or Austrian Alps. He lives a lot better than his dad, former chief engineer at a Soviet electronics plant in Lviv, ever did. There are thousands of people like my cousin, from the IT industry in Lviv.

  312. @Gerard2
    @AP


    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s
     
    Another beneath contempt retarded lie


    It has a booming tech industry
     
    hahaha...errr no you lying cunt


    a lot of new factories being built and expanded

     

    ...really...no

    any people who really have trouble
     
    MANY people who really have trouble

    people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away

     

    errmmm that's a serious sigh of poverty you dumb prick, non-comparable with the Swiss-Fra-Belgium type of scenario. The vast majority of that is jobs on farms and of course..... toilet cleaning for the western Ukrainians you idiot. It's only when Novorossiyan Ukrainians ( about 20% of those who have made the journey to Poland after the coup) arrived that skilled jobs were available like engineer, technician etcetera....because they are from the qualified part of the country

    Jobs in Poland mean about 35% of the wages spent on accommodation and food...they aren't taking these jobs as a luxury you prick...but out of desperation and poverty and lack of work available to them ......comes about when what should be an advanced nation descends into an African-type one

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    AP could be correct about jobs in hi-tech, because of the outsourcing of development work to Ukraine where the salaries are far lower.

    I was reading about this in relation to Israel.

    This is because the very low salaries in Ukraine (although I read about it happening in Odessa, Kharkov – not Lvov).

    Ukraine is the top destination with about 100 Israeli development centers. A strong tradition of maths and computer science teaching that is present in many countries in former Soviet Union countries means Ukraine has more than 20,000 IT graduates each year.

    Wix.com, which helps small businesses build websites and is one of Israel’s hottest tech companies, employs 120 workers in two development centers in Ukraine and another 80 at a site in Lithuania.

    https://reuters.com/article/uk-tech-israel-ukraine/short-of-it-workers-at-home-israeli-startups-recruit-elsewhere-idUKKBN19H0GD

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    AP could be correct about jobs in hi-tech, because of the outsourcing of development work to Ukraine where the salaries are far lower.
     
    What do you mean, "could be?" It's rather obvious I am.

    http://www.businesscomputingworld.co.uk/what-you-should-know-about-ukraines-booming-it-sector/

    More than 3,000 service companies, more than 1,000 startups, about two dozen R&D centers, half a dozen profile associations and up to 15 IT clusters operate on the market. Several of the largest export-oriented companies feel quite confident in the market and have long-term development prospects. Moreover, according to Kyiv Post, 18 outsourcing companies were included in the list of the best high-tech companies in the world.

    Export of IT-products and services. Ukraine is now the leading software development center in Eastern and Central Europe and is one of the largest exporters of IT products and services in the world. IT industry is one of the priority sectors for the export strategy of Ukraine.

    The main achievement of 2017 is the fact that the Ukrainian IT industry has finally returned to pre-crisis growth rates. If in the past three years they were closer to 10%, then this year the market has grown by about 18%.

    Replies: @Rattus Norwegius

  313. @Gerard2
    @Dmitry


    If South Africa decides to join NATO, then we will here all day about the white genocide there.
     
    Russian media is the best, most accurate and most moral on the face of the earth

    Due to some, probably, Soros funded asswipes in South Africa, a Nuclear power station deal with South Africa , that Rosatom were to build -worth dozens of billions.....was shelved even though the Government had agreed and signed to it

    It would not surprise me if the whole scandal that forced Zuma to resign was basically a CIA plot designed to punish Zuma for pushing this ( now defunct) deal with Russia

    My point is that even with the shelved deal, Russian media didn't report unscrupulously on South Africa as a form of revenge for the scrapped deal ( and South Africa needs a long term, energy source like this)

    Replies: @Dmitry

    A lot of South Africans study in Russian universities with scholarships each year. But it’s including people from poorer demographics of South Africa (it’s not Boers which Karlin is hoping about).

  314. Hope its true!!!! The Boer farmers will need a re-education in farming. Boer’s are Dutch and Dutch farmers are very successful in the US so I predict they will do well in Russia.

  315. AP says:
    @Marcus
    @AP

    So you think overall Ukrainization was a failure or just the language policy? It's arguable that all the general secretaries after Stalin were at least partly Ukrainian. Unlikely that they would have achieved that much in the empire, though there were some prominent Rusyn noblemen in imperial service IIRC.

    Replies: @AP

    So you think overall Ukrainization was a failure or just the language policy?

    The natural process was that as peasants became literate they kept their language, and cities that had spoken a different language switched it the peasant language along with urbanization and the growth of cities. This happened in the Baltics (cities had previously been German-speaking), Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, and Galicia (ironically under the Soviets who deemed Ukrainian a lesser evil than Polish). This process began in Russian Empire Ukraine in 1917 (in some cases earlier) but was ended by the Bolsheviks in the early 1930s, when they arrested and deported or shot a lot of Ukrainian teachers and forced many of the incoming peasants to study in Russian. They allowed the Ukrainian schools to continue to exist in the villages so it was not a complete wipe-out as was done in 19th century France. But rather than Kiev becoming a Ukrainian-speaking city as Ukrainians moved in from the countryside, it grew into a huge ethnic Ukrainian but Russian-speaking city.

    It’s arguable that all the general secretaries after Stalin were at least partly Ukrainian.

    Khrushchev and Andropov weren’t. Brezhnev is questionable, Chernenko and Gorbie were half-Ukrainian.

    though there were some prominent Rusyn noblemen in imperial service IIRC.

    Catherine the Great’s Chancellor was an ethnic Ukrainian nobleman:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Bezborodko

    Prince Alexander Andreyevich Bezborodko (Russian: Алекса́ндр Андре́евич Безборо́дко; Ukrainian: Олександр Андрійович Безбородько;25 March [O.S. 14 March] 1747 – 6 April 1799) was the Grand Chancellor of Russia and chief architect of Catherine the Great’s foreign policy after the death of Nikita Panin.

    ::::::::::::::

    He is rumored to have been the anonymous author of a proto-Ukrainian nationalist script contrasting Little Russians, true heirs of ancient Rus, and Tatar-like Great Russians:

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CI%5CS%5CIstoriiaRusovIT.htm

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @AP

    Similar to Wales. The castle towns were originally settled by English or Flemish burgers. After the Black Death, they were refilled by culturally Welsh people declared to be legally English (and so controlled by English Law). After Protestantism arrived, most tradesmen and tenant farmers were literate in Welsh and spoke passable English (300 words were considered enough!).

    90% of Wales remained Welsh speaking even during the early industrial revolution. There were even traditional Welsh speaking communities in the Marches on the English side. Then coal become overwhelmingly important and a million immigrants (mostly English and Irish) flooded onto the coalfield - compare to the Donbass (founded by Welsh engineers) slightly later. Even they might have been absorbed but this coincided with the introduction of universal primary education. The education was not in English. There were aggressive programs of punishment for children heard speaking Welsh.

    You need state intervention with education to destroy a language. Otherwise the one with the deep roots will come back. Considering the closeness of Ukrainian and Russian, removing Ukrainian would not have been a difficult task. I assume a Russian speaking Ukrainian could read his Great Great Grandfather's diaries, albeit with difficulty. In Wales one needs to learn another language from another language family. Seems Ukraine has a good chance to reconstruct Little Russian culture. The language change is not that demanding.

    Replies: @Truth, @AP

    , @Rattus Norwegius
    @AP

    Would you say that Ukrainians did well in the Russian Empire?

    Were the Russian Empire a better deal for Ukraine and Ukrainians than the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth, Ottoman Empire(and vassals, allies, influence) or Austria-Hungary?

    Replies: @AP

    , @Marcus
    @AP

    I don't read Cyrillic, but this purports to be Brezhnev's passport, he lists Ukrainian as nationality. Andropov was apparently Don Don Cossack, but aren't they as much Ukrainian as Great Russian? https://www.reddit.com/r/russia/comments/3iwr4i/brezhnevs_passport_nationality_ukrainian/

    Replies: @AP

  316. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @Gerard2

    AP could be correct about jobs in hi-tech, because of the outsourcing of development work to Ukraine where the salaries are far lower.

    I was reading about this in relation to Israel.

    This is because the very low salaries in Ukraine (although I read about it happening in Odessa, Kharkov - not Lvov).


    Ukraine is the top destination with about 100 Israeli development centers. A strong tradition of maths and computer science teaching that is present in many countries in former Soviet Union countries means Ukraine has more than 20,000 IT graduates each year.
    ...

    Wix.com, which helps small businesses build websites and is one of Israel’s hottest tech companies, employs 120 workers in two development centers in Ukraine and another 80 at a site in Lithuania.

     

    https://reuters.com/article/uk-tech-israel-ukraine/short-of-it-workers-at-home-israeli-startups-recruit-elsewhere-idUKKBN19H0GD

    Replies: @AP

    AP could be correct about jobs in hi-tech, because of the outsourcing of development work to Ukraine where the salaries are far lower.

    What do you mean, “could be?” It’s rather obvious I am.

    http://www.businesscomputingworld.co.uk/what-you-should-know-about-ukraines-booming-it-sector/

    More than 3,000 service companies, more than 1,000 startups, about two dozen R&D centers, half a dozen profile associations and up to 15 IT clusters operate on the market. Several of the largest export-oriented companies feel quite confident in the market and have long-term development prospects. Moreover, according to Kyiv Post, 18 outsourcing companies were included in the list of the best high-tech companies in the world.

    Export of IT-products and services. Ukraine is now the leading software development center in Eastern and Central Europe and is one of the largest exporters of IT products and services in the world. IT industry is one of the priority sectors for the export strategy of Ukraine.

    The main achievement of 2017 is the fact that the Ukrainian IT industry has finally returned to pre-crisis growth rates. If in the past three years they were closer to 10%, then this year the market has grown by about 18%.

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
    @AP

    This is a good trend for Ukraine.

  317. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @AP


    If you friend has normal clothes, has plenty of food, goes out once in a while for entertainment, owns stuff like a computer, smart phone, TV, has normal housing, etc. he is not “living in poverty.” Simply having a lower salary than one would like, particularly in foreign currency, is not “living in poverty.”

     

    He's not poor at all - he's studying in the US now, preparing to apply for graduate school.

    He's talking about general situation of the economy, and the increase in prices.

    Everyone knows Ukraine is not having a famine. But the overall salaries are very low (equivalent to poorest cities in Russia), and I kind of doubt any of us (who do not work in Ukraine) would be happy to live like this, and neither are people in Ukraine.

    I think you said you are working in the West or Moscow (or it could be another user)? When you visit home, I'm sure you notice how cheap everything is for your salary.


    Lviv’s situation is probably better than Odessa’s. It has a booming tech industry, a lot of new factories being built and expanded, and any people who really have trouble finding work can just cross the Polish border which is an hour or so away.

     

    There is starting to be a lot of outsourcing by startups (the startups from countries like Israel and US), to Ukraine, because the salaries are so low there.

    This is symptom of the very low salaries in Ukraine (it's like when Ford Motor Corporation outsources its car manufacturing to Mexico, because of lower salaries in Mexico).

    It's good for Ukraine's economy, but it's epistemically something which is an indication of the very low salaries there. So if it's something good, it's also a symptom of something very bad.

    Replies: @AP

    Everyone knows Ukraine is not having a famine. But the overall salaries are very low (equivalent to poorest cities in Russia)

    Would you claim that vast majority of people in, say, Volgograd, are “living in poverty?” I wouldn’t.

    There is starting to be a lot of outsourcing by startups (the startups from countries like Israel and US), to Ukraine, because the salaries are so low there.

    It started years ago.

    This is symptom of the very low salaries in Ukraine (it’s like when Ford Motor Corporation outsources its car manufacturing to Mexico, because of lower salaries in Mexico)

    Sure. But the salaries are still very good by local standards ($1,500 per month on average for programmers). $1,500 in Lviv is like $4,000 in Moscow. Programmers have moved from Russia back to Lviv.

    One of my cousins is a manager in one of those companies in Lviv. He has a large (even by Western standards) house, normal Western car, and takes his family skiing every year to the Swiss or Austrian Alps. He lives a lot better than his dad, former chief engineer at a Soviet electronics plant in Lviv, ever did. There are thousands of people like my cousin, from the IT industry in Lviv.

  318. anon[118] • Disclaimer says:

    South Africa is a dangerous place because it’s part of Africa. Africans are a violent race. The Boers relocated to Africa generations ago and call themselves Afrikaans. Since they identify as Africans they should live like Africans which means they suffer the same fate as black Africans. I’m sure thousands if not millions of Africans suffer the same fate and violence each day, no different than what these white Africans are facing. Why should they be treated differently?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    @anon

    Mandela understood that the whites ran the S African economy.
    Kill them, or drive them out, another Uganda or Zimbabwe

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @anon



    I’m sure thousands if not millions of Africans suffer the same fate and violence each day,.. Why should they be treated differently?

     

    No one cares because the perpetrators of the violence are also black. If apartheid had been a black on black issue, no one would have cared and SA would not have been sanctioned in the first place, and the ANC would have been crushed and no one would have cared about that either.

    Let the Boers become honorary Africans and break out the machetes and channel their inner General Butt Naked and fight on an even playing field.
  319. Another sign how South Africa under black rule is destroying itself
    A relative of mine lived there from 1955 until 1985.
    He left because he had reached retirement age, but primarily because throwing bombs had begun.
    He died some five years ago, but visited the country he loved often.
    What he said about the whites ‘they all want to leave, but most are economically unable to’.
    So these migrants or refugees do not surprise me at all.

  320. The russians by supporting cuban forces in angola led to the defeat of the south african forces and eventually the regime change in south west africa now known as namibia.russia backed anti south african forces in angola,rhodesia,Mozambique,zambia,and elsewhere.
    So the irony of afrikaaners moving to russia cannot be overstated.bascally the whites and particularly the afrikaaners were abandoned by the west.
    South africa is a member of brics and so is russia so there would be cooperation to facilitate the transfer of the land from whites to blacks by resettling white afrikaaner farmers.the fact is that russia has vast areas of land that can be farmed but the russian government suffers from a lack of people willing to farm.

    https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/07/05/how-to-open-a-farm-in-russia-if-youre-a-foreigner_796165

    • Replies: @melanf
    @mcohen


    the fact is that russia has vast areas of land that can be farmed but the russian government suffers from a lack of people willing to farm.
     
    It is rather a myth. Due to the climate, 90% of the land in Russia is unsuitable for agriculture. Where agriculture is profitable, Russia looks like this: https://gov39.ru/upload/iblock/ebe/ebedc04cdef7b68232b37516efeaeb28.jpg

    The only region where there is really a huge undeveloped land suitable for agriculture is the far East (for example Sakhalin). But this is a very specific region with a severe climate.

    Replies: @mcohen, @Avery

    , @Philip Owen
    @mcohen

    SA was not defeated militarily. There were just not enough skilled whites and coloureds to run the economy. A significant fraction of Afrikaners are poor unskilled working class. They used to do jobs like steel workers (the whitest town in SA is not some rural market town, it's a steel town). Whether that worked is becoming debatable but it did for a while.

    It was a bourgeois revolution by a rising black middle class. The Indians seem to have ridden the wave best.

    , @Philip Owen
    @mcohen

    It is not so much a lack of people willing to farm. It is a lack of people with capital and expertise. Rural Russia is full of villages with economically inactive people who earn enough part time to live off their small holding the rest of the time.

    John Deere has its most profitable factory in the world in Russia. What Russian farms needs are not people but tractors, ploughs, seeders, sprayers, harvesters, trucks and storage. All at the level of Precision Agriculture (satellite tracked, computer controlled). Drones for filed inspection too so that satellite images can be ground verified.

    And it is cheaper to move meat rather than the grain to be fed to the meat, so soya to boost protein. Units for chickens, pigs, turkeys, ducks, dairy, beef-feed lot style, even goats. All is planned but this is a market economy that responds to incentives.

    Oh and freezing plants and trains that can get to China without intolerable customs delays and equipment failures. Even moving grain is bad enough.

    , @Rogue
    @mcohen

    The Soviet backed Cuban forces defeated the South African army in Angola?

    Utter rubbish.

    The only "victory" the Cubans had was a propaganda one.

    Replies: @James Brown

  321. Anonymous[680] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    @Oprah Fan


    From a commercial standpoint Boers are not tempted to move
     
    I know Boers IRL. They're pretty eager to move.

    Most would probably prefer Western Europe to Russia, admittedly. But Western Europe doesn't seem to really want them.

    Replies: @Oprah Fan, @Anonymous

    But Western Europe doesn’t seem to really want them.

    Disgusting, but true. Boers should get automatic citizenship in The Netherlands, while the Anglophones should get automatic citizenship in the UK or Australia.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Stop thinking that the Netherlands and Britain are Zion, goyim.

    , @jilles dykstra
    @Anonymous

    Many Boers also are of German descent
    However, the Netherlands already has too many boeren, farmers.
    No land available.
    We more and more resemble LA

  322. Anonymous[680] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jon0815
    @Anatoly Karlin


    To become a Russian citizen, you must renounce all your former citizenships.
     
    Unless you are Steven Seagal. Presumably they made an exception for him.

    I know several expats who would very much like to become Russian citizens, but unfortunately, Finnish and Austrian citizenships are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.
     
    I plan on immigrating to Russia myself someday, and would prefer to do so as a citizen rather than legal permanent resident (how hard is it to obtain the Russian equivalent of a green card?), but not if it means giving up US citizenship.

    Replies: @songbird, @Anatoly Karlin, @Anonymous

    Unless you are Steven Seagal. Presumably they made an exception for him.

    I thought he got Serbian citizenship? Are you thinking of Putin’s mate the fat french bloke?

  323. Anonymous[680] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    @Jon0815


    ... and would prefer to do so as a citizen rather than legal permanent resident (how hard is it to obtain the Russian equivalent of a green card?)
     
    Getting permanent residency is pretty easy in Russia. It gives you many of the benefits of citizenship and, in practice, this is what most of the long-term expats I know here opt for.

    Unfortunately there is no obvious way to get a Russian citizenship without losing US citizenship, which is something that most people would not want to do. The Finn in question mounted a serious investigation about how to do it, but unfortunately to no avail. Giving up Finnish citizenship would mean difficulties in visiting Finland, where he still has an ageing (and increasingly sick) mother. In utu's world, he would have to risk cutting his access to her to demonstrate that he is "good material" for Russian citizenship.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Some countries allow renounced citizens to re-obtain citizenship. I recall the UK allows it once, meaning a UK citizen could renounce UK, add Russia, add UK, and become dual national.

    Theoretically!

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Anonymous

    Tell me more.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  324. Poor Afrikaners, they treat them as they were black!

  325. @Jay Ritchie
    Is Russia really that bothered about getting a rugby team?

    Replies: @Stebbing Heuer

    The benefits would be many and varied.

    Myself, I wish they’d all come here to Australia. IF ONLY TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF OUR BLOODY RUGBY.


  326. “They do belong to a weird little Protestant sect but we all have our minor failings.”
    What weird protestant sect?

    This one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Reformed_Church_in_South_Africa_(NGK)?

  327. #BoerfugeesWelcome

  328. @mcohen
    The russians by supporting cuban forces in angola led to the defeat of the south african forces and eventually the regime change in south west africa now known as namibia.russia backed anti south african forces in angola,rhodesia,Mozambique,zambia,and elsewhere.
    So the irony of afrikaaners moving to russia cannot be overstated.bascally the whites and particularly the afrikaaners were abandoned by the west.
    South africa is a member of brics and so is russia so there would be cooperation to facilitate the transfer of the land from whites to blacks by resettling white afrikaaner farmers.the fact is that russia has vast areas of land that can be farmed but the russian government suffers from a lack of people willing to farm.

    https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/07/05/how-to-open-a-farm-in-russia-if-youre-a-foreigner_796165

    Replies: @melanf, @Philip Owen, @Philip Owen, @Rogue

    the fact is that russia has vast areas of land that can be farmed but the russian government suffers from a lack of people willing to farm.

    It is rather a myth. Due to the climate, 90% of the land in Russia is unsuitable for agriculture. Where agriculture is profitable, Russia looks like this:

    The only region where there is really a huge undeveloped land suitable for agriculture is the far East (for example Sakhalin). But this is a very specific region with a severe climate.

    • Replies: @mcohen
    @melanf

    Ever heard of climate change.the earth is heating up.As I said in my post below only those that think ahead will survive.

    , @Avery
    @melanf

    {Where agriculture is profitable, Russia looks like this:}

    Grain production statistics support your point.

    From world-grain.com*
    [MOSCOW, RUSSIA — Russia grain exports in 2017-18 are nearly 40% higher year on year at 39.17 million tonnes, according to statistics released by the Russian Ministry of Agriculture on April 1. Wheat exports are up 41% year on year, at 30.61 million tonnes.
    The biggest jump year over year is in barley exports, which are up 97% from a year ago at 4.41 million tonnes, the ministry said.]

    And if I am not mistaken, Russia became world's largest grain exporter either in 2017 or 2018. So there is plenty of land in Russia.
    In fact, probably more than enough: as poster [Philip Owen] noted, what lacks in Russian agriculture is capital, technology, etc. With time, those will come.

    Finally, it is hard to believe with all the stories of food shortages around the world and such, but apparently there is a worldwide grain glut, according to Reuters article:

    [The surge in Russian exports has contributed to a global grain glut. The world’s wheat market is set for a fifth surplus in a row in 2017-18 with stocks climbing to a record 268 million tonnes, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture data.] (BUSINESS NEWS NOVEMBER 3, 2017 / 12:05 AM / 8 MONTHS AGO MOSCOW (Reuters))

    __________________
    * http://www.world-grain.com/articles/news_home/World_Grain_News/2018/04/Russia_grain_exports_up_year_o.aspx?ID=%7B33C8D8B4-AAE1-4F79-A2E4-13239C0F488F%7D&cck=1

  329. Breaking news. Russia wins. I lived in South Africa for ten-years. Boer farmers are hard working agricultural experts. Russia’s agricultural output will increase. The Left will never figure out the difference between first and third world immigration. Russia obviously has.

    • Replies: @Z-man
    @Swan Knight

    I wonder haw many of those Boers have gone to Pennsylvania Dutch country and other related American farming communities.

    "Russia to Welcome 15,000 African Refugees"; I was concerned but once I read the article you made me laugh. You got me! LOL

  330. @Felix Keverich
    Actually, I'm not sure this is such a good idea. Russia is not the most comfortable place to live in - these people will grow disillusioned quickly. Their kids will move to the city and become leaders in Russian LGBTQ movement (because Dutch DNA).

    I know that Russia can't be worse, than South Africa, but at least back there they had a traditional lifestyle to cling to. In Russia it won't be the same.

    [email protected], I wrote my comment before I saw yours. But Russian bureaucracy is no laughing matter - there WILL be disillusioned Boers.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Beckow, @The Big Red Scary, @pyrrhus, @Swan Knight, @Anonymous

    You’re an ignoramus. I lived in South Africa for ten-years. Boer farmers are hard working agricultural experts. Russia’s climate is obviously much colder. Nevertheless, Russia has better farmland. The Boer farmer succeeded in farming an arid, blistering hot summers dessert. They will not come to Russia and abandon their new farms in a host nation for faggotry just because the weather is too cold

  331. Sometimes when I watch sport I marvel at the superior abilities that sportsmen have.You read a book or look at a Picasso and you get the same feeling that humanity has different levels and some rise above others ansd these levels occur in all aspects.
    I have come to believe that there are abilities that are hidden from the general population.They are spotted at an early age and nurtured and those that rule have access to these abilities and make good use of them and have so for many centuries.
    One ability is the understanding of future events,almost like time travel.People say xyz will happen in 50 years from now and it does and those in power plan accordingly.In fact I now believe that it is possible to herd people like sheep from one paddock to the next by having access to the “time travel ability”.That’s why studying history is a great resource because it shows up the footprints and timelines of events from start to finish.
    I used to farm in south africa.it was a family business started by my grandparents who arrived in south africa in the early 1900,s.They came out from Lithuania and cheap land and labour was made available to them.The whole project was run by the British empire.Farms were built and south africa in the hands of white farmers began to not only feed south africans but export food to other countries.
    Afrikaners were the first to farm land on a commercial scale and it was a complete success as they were the backbone of the farming project.
    Then the powers that be decided it was time to move the sheep to other pastures and hand the land over to the black people.
    My father used to say that the white man thinks in squares and the black man thinks in circles.
    a good example of this is Zimbabwe,however I believe that only those who think ahead will survive.

  332. @Swan Knight
    Breaking news. Russia wins. I lived in South Africa for ten-years. Boer farmers are hard working agricultural experts. Russia's agricultural output will increase. The Left will never figure out the difference between first and third world immigration. Russia obviously has.

    Replies: @Z-man

    I wonder haw many of those Boers have gone to Pennsylvania Dutch country and other related American farming communities.

    “Russia to Welcome 15,000 African Refugees”; I was concerned but once I read the article you made me laugh. You got me! LOL

  333. @melanf
    @mcohen


    the fact is that russia has vast areas of land that can be farmed but the russian government suffers from a lack of people willing to farm.
     
    It is rather a myth. Due to the climate, 90% of the land in Russia is unsuitable for agriculture. Where agriculture is profitable, Russia looks like this: https://gov39.ru/upload/iblock/ebe/ebedc04cdef7b68232b37516efeaeb28.jpg

    The only region where there is really a huge undeveloped land suitable for agriculture is the far East (for example Sakhalin). But this is a very specific region with a severe climate.

    Replies: @mcohen, @Avery

    Ever heard of climate change.the earth is heating up.As I said in my post below only those that think ahead will survive.

  334. @AP
    @Marcus


    So you think overall Ukrainization was a failure or just the language policy?
     
    The natural process was that as peasants became literate they kept their language, and cities that had spoken a different language switched it the peasant language along with urbanization and the growth of cities. This happened in the Baltics (cities had previously been German-speaking), Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, and Galicia (ironically under the Soviets who deemed Ukrainian a lesser evil than Polish). This process began in Russian Empire Ukraine in 1917 (in some cases earlier) but was ended by the Bolsheviks in the early 1930s, when they arrested and deported or shot a lot of Ukrainian teachers and forced many of the incoming peasants to study in Russian. They allowed the Ukrainian schools to continue to exist in the villages so it was not a complete wipe-out as was done in 19th century France. But rather than Kiev becoming a Ukrainian-speaking city as Ukrainians moved in from the countryside, it grew into a huge ethnic Ukrainian but Russian-speaking city.

    It’s arguable that all the general secretaries after Stalin were at least partly Ukrainian.
     
    Khrushchev and Andropov weren't. Brezhnev is questionable, Chernenko and Gorbie were half-Ukrainian.

    though there were some prominent Rusyn noblemen in imperial service IIRC.
     
    Catherine the Great's Chancellor was an ethnic Ukrainian nobleman:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Bezborodko

    Prince Alexander Andreyevich Bezborodko (Russian: Алекса́ндр Андре́евич Безборо́дко; Ukrainian: Олександр Андрійович Безбородько;25 March [O.S. 14 March] 1747 – 6 April 1799) was the Grand Chancellor of Russia and chief architect of Catherine the Great's foreign policy after the death of Nikita Panin.

    ::::::::::::::

    He is rumored to have been the anonymous author of a proto-Ukrainian nationalist script contrasting Little Russians, true heirs of ancient Rus, and Tatar-like Great Russians:

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CI%5CS%5CIstoriiaRusovIT.htm

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Rattus Norwegius, @Marcus

    Similar to Wales. The castle towns were originally settled by English or Flemish burgers. After the Black Death, they were refilled by culturally Welsh people declared to be legally English (and so controlled by English Law). After Protestantism arrived, most tradesmen and tenant farmers were literate in Welsh and spoke passable English (300 words were considered enough!).

    90% of Wales remained Welsh speaking even during the early industrial revolution. There were even traditional Welsh speaking communities in the Marches on the English side. Then coal become overwhelmingly important and a million immigrants (mostly English and Irish) flooded onto the coalfield – compare to the Donbass (founded by Welsh engineers) slightly later. Even they might have been absorbed but this coincided with the introduction of universal primary education. The education was not in English. There were aggressive programs of punishment for children heard speaking Welsh.

    You need state intervention with education to destroy a language. Otherwise the one with the deep roots will come back. Considering the closeness of Ukrainian and Russian, removing Ukrainian would not have been a difficult task. I assume a Russian speaking Ukrainian could read his Great Great Grandfather’s diaries, albeit with difficulty. In Wales one needs to learn another language from another language family. Seems Ukraine has a good chance to reconstruct Little Russian culture. The language change is not that demanding.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Philip Owen


    I assume a Russian speaking Ukrainian could read his Great Great Grandfather’s diaries, albeit with difficulty.
     
    Well, disregarding the fact that his great great grandfather was almost certainly illiterate...

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    , @AP
    @Philip Owen


    Considering the closeness of Ukrainian and Russian, removing Ukrainian would not have been a difficult task. I assume a Russian speaking Ukrainian could read his Great Great Grandfather’s diaries, albeit with difficulty.
     
    Because the countryside still largely speaks Ukrainian, even in central and eastern parts of the country, many urban Russian speaking Ukrainians will have been exposed to a lot of Ukrainian simply when visiting their village relatives (or from their own grandparents). They would also hear it when people form villages sell food in markets in the cities. So even if they weren't learning Ukrainian in school (as they have been doing for the past 10+ years) they would probably be able to speak the language somewhat. The languages are different enough that someone with no prior exposure would struggle to make sense of things (it is not like Swedish and Danish), but close enough that with regular exposure one can learn without formal training.
  335. @mcohen
    The russians by supporting cuban forces in angola led to the defeat of the south african forces and eventually the regime change in south west africa now known as namibia.russia backed anti south african forces in angola,rhodesia,Mozambique,zambia,and elsewhere.
    So the irony of afrikaaners moving to russia cannot be overstated.bascally the whites and particularly the afrikaaners were abandoned by the west.
    South africa is a member of brics and so is russia so there would be cooperation to facilitate the transfer of the land from whites to blacks by resettling white afrikaaner farmers.the fact is that russia has vast areas of land that can be farmed but the russian government suffers from a lack of people willing to farm.

    https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/07/05/how-to-open-a-farm-in-russia-if-youre-a-foreigner_796165

    Replies: @melanf, @Philip Owen, @Philip Owen, @Rogue

    SA was not defeated militarily. There were just not enough skilled whites and coloureds to run the economy. A significant fraction of Afrikaners are poor unskilled working class. They used to do jobs like steel workers (the whitest town in SA is not some rural market town, it’s a steel town). Whether that worked is becoming debatable but it did for a while.

    It was a bourgeois revolution by a rising black middle class. The Indians seem to have ridden the wave best.

  336. @Anonymous
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Some countries allow renounced citizens to re-obtain citizenship. I recall the UK allows it once, meaning a UK citizen could renounce UK, add Russia, add UK, and become dual national.

    Theoretically!

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    Tell me more.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Philip Owen

    Application for registration as a British citizen by a person after renunciation: form RS1

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-to-register-as-british-citizen-form-rs1

    It's got a bunch of tickboxes on page 5. So I'm guessing if you get the right combination of ticks then you get your citizenship back. Definitely worth consulting with an immigration lawyer before doing this.

  337. @Philip Owen
    @AP

    Similar to Wales. The castle towns were originally settled by English or Flemish burgers. After the Black Death, they were refilled by culturally Welsh people declared to be legally English (and so controlled by English Law). After Protestantism arrived, most tradesmen and tenant farmers were literate in Welsh and spoke passable English (300 words were considered enough!).

    90% of Wales remained Welsh speaking even during the early industrial revolution. There were even traditional Welsh speaking communities in the Marches on the English side. Then coal become overwhelmingly important and a million immigrants (mostly English and Irish) flooded onto the coalfield - compare to the Donbass (founded by Welsh engineers) slightly later. Even they might have been absorbed but this coincided with the introduction of universal primary education. The education was not in English. There were aggressive programs of punishment for children heard speaking Welsh.

    You need state intervention with education to destroy a language. Otherwise the one with the deep roots will come back. Considering the closeness of Ukrainian and Russian, removing Ukrainian would not have been a difficult task. I assume a Russian speaking Ukrainian could read his Great Great Grandfather's diaries, albeit with difficulty. In Wales one needs to learn another language from another language family. Seems Ukraine has a good chance to reconstruct Little Russian culture. The language change is not that demanding.

    Replies: @Truth, @AP

    I assume a Russian speaking Ukrainian could read his Great Great Grandfather’s diaries, albeit with difficulty.

    Well, disregarding the fact that his great great grandfather was almost certainly illiterate…

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Truth

    Agreed. I was describing my own case. The one in question being a lawyer but my carpenter ancestors left letters behind too. Albeit mostly in English as they were in Chicago at the time.

    There were publications in Little Russian from the early 19th C onwards so some were literate.

  338. @mcohen
    The russians by supporting cuban forces in angola led to the defeat of the south african forces and eventually the regime change in south west africa now known as namibia.russia backed anti south african forces in angola,rhodesia,Mozambique,zambia,and elsewhere.
    So the irony of afrikaaners moving to russia cannot be overstated.bascally the whites and particularly the afrikaaners were abandoned by the west.
    South africa is a member of brics and so is russia so there would be cooperation to facilitate the transfer of the land from whites to blacks by resettling white afrikaaner farmers.the fact is that russia has vast areas of land that can be farmed but the russian government suffers from a lack of people willing to farm.

    https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/07/05/how-to-open-a-farm-in-russia-if-youre-a-foreigner_796165

    Replies: @melanf, @Philip Owen, @Philip Owen, @Rogue

    It is not so much a lack of people willing to farm. It is a lack of people with capital and expertise. Rural Russia is full of villages with economically inactive people who earn enough part time to live off their small holding the rest of the time.

    John Deere has its most profitable factory in the world in Russia. What Russian farms needs are not people but tractors, ploughs, seeders, sprayers, harvesters, trucks and storage. All at the level of Precision Agriculture (satellite tracked, computer controlled). Drones for filed inspection too so that satellite images can be ground verified.

    And it is cheaper to move meat rather than the grain to be fed to the meat, so soya to boost protein. Units for chickens, pigs, turkeys, ducks, dairy, beef-feed lot style, even goats. All is planned but this is a market economy that responds to incentives.

    Oh and freezing plants and trains that can get to China without intolerable customs delays and equipment failures. Even moving grain is bad enough.

  339. @Truth
    @Philip Owen


    I assume a Russian speaking Ukrainian could read his Great Great Grandfather’s diaries, albeit with difficulty.
     
    Well, disregarding the fact that his great great grandfather was almost certainly illiterate...

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    Agreed. I was describing my own case. The one in question being a lawyer but my carpenter ancestors left letters behind too. Albeit mostly in English as they were in Chicago at the time.

    There were publications in Little Russian from the early 19th C onwards so some were literate.

  340. Anonymous [AKA "Mike3231"] says:

    Russia’s slavic genepool will benefit greatly from Dutch genetics. Imagine that, refugees that actually help the genepool!

    However, these Dutch should immigrate as far Northwest in Russia as possible, likely to St Petersburg, and then wait for their first chance to migrate back to Northwest Europe. I doubt they will fare well as a separate ethnic group in Russia, unless the government makes a special effort to advantage them.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Anonymous

    There are Boers of South Africa that immigrate to Israel. (A single family which immigrated in 1994, was with hundreds of people in it).

    Looking about the topic- it seems they try to remain in the West Bank, in the most dangerous the conflict zone with Arabs, and intermarry with the local people (probably increasing human capital - Boers are a very intelligent and educated population).

    But underlying reason they were there is because of the religious (the Boers in Israel are Judaizers ).

    Comment on Philip Owen here is the most relevant ones about this story (which is about non-religiously motivated Boers only interested in a convenient place to farm - which would likely not come unless government gives them some special incentives).

    -

    Here documentary from Israel television, about a half-Boer woman who farms the West Bank (conflict zone with Arabs). Also student in university at the same time.

    Farm is so isolated, when the father died in an accident it takes them an hour to arrive there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miMw8onNdM4

    In the night time, Boers do not sleep, but are guarding their farms.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmZSpdlwcF4

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @Anonymous

    Slav genepool is perfectly fine. Who created the periodic table? Who sent the first satellite into space?

  341. Anonymous [AKA "Mike3232"] says:
    @Anonymous
    @Daniel Chieh


    But Western Europe doesn’t seem to really want them.
     
    Disgusting, but true. Boers should get automatic citizenship in The Netherlands, while the Anglophones should get automatic citizenship in the UK or Australia.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @jilles dykstra

    Stop thinking that the Netherlands and Britain are Zion, goyim.

  342. @Znzn
    OT but why are in commenters so triggered by Pakistani groomers but do not seem to have the same level of apprehension about grooming and pedophilia and pederasty by the LGBT community? Is it because LGBTs are not Muslim so people here do not care? Or because the MRA movement and MGTOW movement has a very very large number of closet homosexuals? I mean how many articles have you seen by Unz columnists talking about the pederasty and pedophile problem within the LGBT community, or how many gays are groomed in their teens by older gays?

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Is it because LGBTs are not Muslim so people here do not care?

    People here do tend to be pretty obsessed with race and religion.

    I guess most people have just become accustomed to living in the sewer that is modern western society and just accept homosexual predators as a normal part of modern life. And maybe the Russians and east Europeans here aren’t worried because the problem hasn’t reached them on any great scale yet.

  343. @AP
    OT but Trump is right about Germany and Russia:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/angela-merkel-hits-back-at-donald-trump-at-nato-summit/ar-AAzUDvJ?ocid=spartanntp

    This summit is shaping up to be the most divisive in NATO’s 69-year history. Normally, NATO summits are mostly fixed in advance and proceed in an orderly fashion. Trump’s first words signaled this one was not going to be like that.

    He complained that German politicians had been working for Russian energy companies after leaving politics and said this too was inappropriate. Germany was totally controlled by Russia, Trump said.

    With Stoltenberg looking on uncomfortably throughout, the US president was unrelenting. “I think it is very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia,” Trump said. “We are supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions dollars a year to Russia.

    “We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France, we are protecting all of these countries and then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with Russia where they are paying billions of dollars into the coffers of Russia. I think that is very inappropriate.”

    He added: “It should never have been allowed to happen. Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they will be getting 60-70% of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline.

    “You tell me if that’s appropriate because I think it’s not. On top of that Germany is just paying just a little bit over 1% [of GDP on NATO defense contributions] whereas the United States is paying 4.2% of a much larger GDP. So I think that’s inappropriate also.”

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @German_reader, @Anatoly Karlin, @Okechukwu, @dfordoom

    “We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France, we are protecting all of these countries

    Trump does talk some evil nonsense sometimes. The U.S. is not protecting Germany and France and other European countries, it is keeping its vassals in line.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @dfordoom

    The only arable (farmable) land in Russia is a thin southern belt that essentially runs from the Western to Eastern border. In fact, the southern Russian border runs wildly along the precise moisture line, looking to keep to untermensch on the other side of the productive land. Looking at this border's implied audacity is fairly hilarious. People did better survival calculus in prior eras.

    However, the general lack of such land is why Russia, which is mostly forested wasteland, is the land of the Slavs. The Western European haplotype groups traveled (or ran) until they hit temperate coastal land (ports) that also was more or less all arable (NW Europe). The Slavs were kept to the wastelands. The Dutch group, which were also the original French Royalty, arguably occupied the first or second best plot of land in Eurasia between the Netherlands, Belgium, France, and the German Rhineland. The competitor being the Saxons and their land in North central Germany and the UK. Most of it with the double economic benefit of it being arable and having great ports. That most of Scandanavia is not arable speaks to their prior reliance on Viking economics (trade and raiding). They chose maximum isolation over economics.

  344. Anonymous [AKA "Mike3233"] says:
    @Cagey Beast
    Three Brooklyn Democrats: Sam Seder, Michael Brooks and Virgil Texas talk about how stupid and/or shameful White fears of demographic replacement is. They talk about Pat Buchanan, Zulus, White farmers in South Africa and the use of their plight to rally the alt-right.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAqBGyudXrc

    Replies: @Anonymous

    What any Jew, but perhaps most of all what any Brooklyn Jew, has to say on immigration and White politics could not be more irrelevant.

    When Flatbush Haredi start renting to, selling to, and integrating with the surrounding Blacks then Jews will have taken the first of dozens of necessary steps to making anything that they say on these topics relevant. There are no monolithically “whiter” and ethnically exclusive neighborhoods in the USA, with similar or greater population density, than Brooklyn Jewish neighborhoods.

    If they make resistance against Black appropriation of Boer land an “alt-Right” issue, then that would make resistance against Palestinian appropriation of Israeli land an “alt-Left” issue that is equally worthy of dismissal. If they justify Jewish occupation on what the book that they wrote says in regard to prior ownership, then that leaves the door open for Western European non-Jews to take Anatolia, Iran, and North Africa for themselves. All morality being equally applied (protip: Jews also want this land for themselves).

    They key to all of this, of course, is that Jews seek to apply a double moral standard in relation to themselves and non-Jews. Which, again, makes anything that they say utterly irrelevant.

  345. @reiner Tor
    Excellent.

    Replies: @lavoisier

    Excellent indeed.

    I was always troubled by the failure of Western nations to make it a priority to bring in the white farmers from South Africa.

    Instead they welcomed migrants who had little chance of doing anything but causing trouble and costing money.

    Good for Putin and Russia!

    And it will be nice to see the usual suspects complaining about a humanitarian gesture directed towards white people.

    • Agree: brandybranch
  346. AP says:
    @Philip Owen
    @AP

    Similar to Wales. The castle towns were originally settled by English or Flemish burgers. After the Black Death, they were refilled by culturally Welsh people declared to be legally English (and so controlled by English Law). After Protestantism arrived, most tradesmen and tenant farmers were literate in Welsh and spoke passable English (300 words were considered enough!).

    90% of Wales remained Welsh speaking even during the early industrial revolution. There were even traditional Welsh speaking communities in the Marches on the English side. Then coal become overwhelmingly important and a million immigrants (mostly English and Irish) flooded onto the coalfield - compare to the Donbass (founded by Welsh engineers) slightly later. Even they might have been absorbed but this coincided with the introduction of universal primary education. The education was not in English. There were aggressive programs of punishment for children heard speaking Welsh.

    You need state intervention with education to destroy a language. Otherwise the one with the deep roots will come back. Considering the closeness of Ukrainian and Russian, removing Ukrainian would not have been a difficult task. I assume a Russian speaking Ukrainian could read his Great Great Grandfather's diaries, albeit with difficulty. In Wales one needs to learn another language from another language family. Seems Ukraine has a good chance to reconstruct Little Russian culture. The language change is not that demanding.

    Replies: @Truth, @AP

    Considering the closeness of Ukrainian and Russian, removing Ukrainian would not have been a difficult task. I assume a Russian speaking Ukrainian could read his Great Great Grandfather’s diaries, albeit with difficulty.

    Because the countryside still largely speaks Ukrainian, even in central and eastern parts of the country, many urban Russian speaking Ukrainians will have been exposed to a lot of Ukrainian simply when visiting their village relatives (or from their own grandparents). They would also hear it when people form villages sell food in markets in the cities. So even if they weren’t learning Ukrainian in school (as they have been doing for the past 10+ years) they would probably be able to speak the language somewhat. The languages are different enough that someone with no prior exposure would struggle to make sense of things (it is not like Swedish and Danish), but close enough that with regular exposure one can learn without formal training.

  347. Anonymous [AKA "Mike3235"] says:
    @dfordoom
    @AP


    “We are protecting Germany, we are protecting France, we are protecting all of these countries
     
    Trump does talk some evil nonsense sometimes. The U.S. is not protecting Germany and France and other European countries, it is keeping its vassals in line.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The only arable (farmable) land in Russia is a thin southern belt that essentially runs from the Western to Eastern border. In fact, the southern Russian border runs wildly along the precise moisture line, looking to keep to untermensch on the other side of the productive land. Looking at this border’s implied audacity is fairly hilarious. People did better survival calculus in prior eras.

    However, the general lack of such land is why Russia, which is mostly forested wasteland, is the land of the Slavs. The Western European haplotype groups traveled (or ran) until they hit temperate coastal land (ports) that also was more or less all arable (NW Europe). The Slavs were kept to the wastelands. The Dutch group, which were also the original French Royalty, arguably occupied the first or second best plot of land in Eurasia between the Netherlands, Belgium, France, and the German Rhineland. The competitor being the Saxons and their land in North central Germany and the UK. Most of it with the double economic benefit of it being arable and having great ports. That most of Scandanavia is not arable speaks to their prior reliance on Viking economics (trade and raiding). They chose maximum isolation over economics.

  348. @melanf
    @mcohen


    the fact is that russia has vast areas of land that can be farmed but the russian government suffers from a lack of people willing to farm.
     
    It is rather a myth. Due to the climate, 90% of the land in Russia is unsuitable for agriculture. Where agriculture is profitable, Russia looks like this: https://gov39.ru/upload/iblock/ebe/ebedc04cdef7b68232b37516efeaeb28.jpg

    The only region where there is really a huge undeveloped land suitable for agriculture is the far East (for example Sakhalin). But this is a very specific region with a severe climate.

    Replies: @mcohen, @Avery

    {Where agriculture is profitable, Russia looks like this:}

    Grain production statistics support your point.

    From world-grain.com*
    [MOSCOW, RUSSIA — Russia grain exports in 2017-18 are nearly 40% higher year on year at 39.17 million tonnes, according to statistics released by the Russian Ministry of Agriculture on April 1. Wheat exports are up 41% year on year, at 30.61 million tonnes.
    The biggest jump year over year is in barley exports, which are up 97% from a year ago at 4.41 million tonnes, the ministry said.]

    And if I am not mistaken, Russia became world’s largest grain exporter either in 2017 or 2018. So there is plenty of land in Russia.
    In fact, probably more than enough: as poster [Philip Owen] noted, what lacks in Russian agriculture is capital, technology, etc. With time, those will come.

    Finally, it is hard to believe with all the stories of food shortages around the world and such, but apparently there is a worldwide grain glut, according to Reuters article:

    [The surge in Russian exports has contributed to a global grain glut. The world’s wheat market is set for a fifth surplus in a row in 2017-18 with stocks climbing to a record 268 million tonnes, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture data.] (BUSINESS NEWS NOVEMBER 3, 2017 / 12:05 AM / 8 MONTHS AGO MOSCOW (Reuters))

    __________________
    * http://www.world-grain.com/articles/news_home/World_Grain_News/2018/04/Russia_grain_exports_up_year_o.aspx?ID=%7B33C8D8B4-AAE1-4F79-A2E4-13239C0F488F%7D&cck=1

  349. @Dmitry
    UK, Australia and Canada, successfully receive hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants, with the majority each year flowing to UK and Canada.

    Mostly these are skilled immigrants. South Africa itself has many important scientists and intellectuals (with famous universities before the 1990s), and emigrated to UK, Australia, Canada and the US, during the 1990s, when crime and social disorder rose in their native country, but continuing emigration occurring in recent years.

    This immigration can be of obvious economic benefit for the receiving countries, due to the demographics of the immigrants.

    For Stavropol, which has high poverty, to attract them (beyond these ones visiting for a holiday), will
    probably require absorption benefits and some kind of real plan from the authorities.

    GDP per capita in South Africa is significantly below Russia, although a little recovered since the 1990s - so there is still a possibility to receive such "Boer immigration", but there would need to be real incentives and with multi-year plan .

    Particularly some kind of bonus to incentivize them to live in Russia, and not leave after a year (something like a free apartment if they are successfully staying in the country 5 years later).

    Replies: @DFH, @Anarcho-Supremacist, @Anarcho-Supremacist, @Rattus Norwegius, @Jeff Stryker


    “UK, Australia and Canada, successfully receive hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants, with the majority each year flowing to UK and Canada.”
    What proportion of those migrants is Afrikaans speaking and what proportion is English speaking?
    “GDP per capita in South Africa is significantly below Russia”
    Some ethnicities in South Africa have a higher GDP per capita than Russia does.
    https://businesstech.co.za/news/wealth/153485/whites-earn-5-times-more-than-blacks-in-south-africa-stats-sa/
    “Particularly some kind of bonus to incentivize them to live in Russia, and not leave after a year (something like a free apartment if they are successfully staying in the country 5 years later).”
    These people are not refugees if you have to bribe them.

  350. It is a potentially very good thing that Russia is taking in white refugees from black African horror. But there is bad potential as well. Blacks and other non-whites are what they are because of white Liberals. Not because of Jews, but first and foremost because of Gentile Liberals, who were and are absolutely necessary to all things done by the craziest Jews, whether Leftist Jews or Neocon Jews.

    Russia made more than a few major errors that played key roles leading to the revolutionary furor of the 19th century that flowered into Bolshevism. Peter the Great was central to most of them. He became a lover of most things ‘Western,’ which meant to him things that were Age of Enlightenment European as opposed to Age of Christendom Western European. More specifically, Peter adored and idealized things culturally Germanic, whether Prussian, Dutch, Anglo-Saxon. And that meant that he not only saw no problems with Germanic speaking citizens of Russia who were Protestant, but that he supported Germanic-speaking Protestants in Russia, remaining largely separate within Russia by language, cultural identity, and theology.

    Peter was not the type to be able to discern the problems inherit in sola fide, and therefore inherit in the entire Reformation. He also failed to understand that Germanic culture always will produce waves of people who at best see Slavs, like Celts, as inferior anachronisms that need to be conquered and ruled by Germanic people.

    Boers should know that Anglo-Saxon culture is poison, eventually, to all truly conservative white Gentile peoples. But if today’s Boers romanticize, even defend, the Dutch Calvinist heritage that embraced all those Jews from Spain and helped them spread perversion across Europe and the world, then they easily could become trouble within Russia.

    My warning is that unless the Boers are Slavicized linguistically and culturally, and unless they begin shedding their Protestantism for either Eastern Orthodoxy or pre-Vatican II Catholicism, many Boer descendants will become thorns in Russia’s side. Their sense of Germanic culture combined with their faith in the Reformation and its fruits will lead them to want to remake Russia in the image of culturally Germanic protestant rebellion.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Jake


    Boers should know that Anglo-Saxon culture is poison, eventually, to all truly conservative white Gentile peoples. But if today’s Boers romanticize, even defend, the Dutch Calvinist heritage that embraced all those Jews from Spain and helped them spread perversion across Europe and the world, then they easily could become trouble within Russia.
     
    I have to agree.
    , @Rogue
    @Jake

    More of your obsessive rubbish, as per usual.

    The Boers, primarily an ethnic mix of Dutch, German and French Huguenot are Calvinist in their beliefs, and generally speaking quite God fearing, but have also never been traditionally a proselytizing people.

    Also, they have always been somewhat suspicious of the Jews, and if you know anything of South African history, with good reason.

    Your animosity (bigotry) towards Anglo Saxons is well noted, but seeing as the most ruinous war for the Boers was fought against the same people, that the Boers would be nefarious pushers of Anglo Saxon "heresy", propaganda, whatever is just plain laughable.

    Whether they move in large numbers or not remains to be seen, but they are probably the most conservative Whites on the planet.

    Switching focus, your animosity to all things loosely Protestant, or non church of Rome, is also well noted.

    I used to believe that the church of Rome was the world's single biggest cult. I no longer do, and accept that on the very fundamentals of the Christian faith it is a Christian church. I've even attended an Alpha course at a Catholic church.

    I accept that there are many genuine Christians in the church of Rome.

    That doesn't mean to say that I accept a whole lot of wonky Catholic doctrine - which I don't.

    The Reformation was a great work of God. The church of Rome had a real opportunity to reform itself at that time, if only a little but, instead, in it's arrogance and pride simply doubled down.

    You are a church of Rome chauvinist.

  351. @Anonymous
    @Daniel Chieh


    But Western Europe doesn’t seem to really want them.
     
    Disgusting, but true. Boers should get automatic citizenship in The Netherlands, while the Anglophones should get automatic citizenship in the UK or Australia.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @jilles dykstra

    Many Boers also are of German descent
    However, the Netherlands already has too many boeren, farmers.
    No land available.
    We more and more resemble LA

  352. @anon
    South Africa is a dangerous place because it's part of Africa. Africans are a violent race. The Boers relocated to Africa generations ago and call themselves Afrikaans. Since they identify as Africans they should live like Africans which means they suffer the same fate as black Africans. I'm sure thousands if not millions of Africans suffer the same fate and violence each day, no different than what these white Africans are facing. Why should they be treated differently?

    Replies: @jilles dykstra, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Mandela understood that the whites ran the S African economy.
    Kill them, or drive them out, another Uganda or Zimbabwe

  353. @Okechukwu
    Great news if true (but I suspect it's not). SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened. Apartheid ended but they still control most of the land and economy. Let Russia worry about them and good luck to Russia. Soon they'll be demanding an independent Boer republic and special language and cultural privileges. And they'll need serfs but serfdom ended long ago.

    One person the Boers won't run into is Anatoly Karlin, who claims to live in Russia but we know that's not true.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @iffen, @songbird, @Rattus Norwegius, @RadicalCenter

    “SA will never find peace until the Boer stranglehold is loosened. ”
    It is a weak stranglehold.

  354. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    Evidently the Germans are not controlled enough by Russia to want to drop sanctions, having interests with Russia does not necessarily mean a pro-Russian stance,
     
    In Eastern Europe, Germany has a reputation of being Russia's Trojan Horse. Trump is saying what Eastern Europeans have been saying for years.

    I wonder if Trump is just complaining because he wants Germany to buy more LNG from the US.
     
    It's probably both. It's nice when geopolitical interests and economic interests are aligned. That having been said, Trump is right - if Russia really is a rival or threat, why pay them billions and billions when instead these billions can be paid to an ally and protector who has allowed you to save a lot of money because they took on your defense responsibilities?

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Rattus Norwegius

    “In Eastern Europe, Germany has a reputation of being Russia’s Trojan Horse. Trump is saying what Eastern Europeans have been saying for years.”

    Today the pipelines transporting Russian hydrocarbons and Russia’s allies hydrocarbons travel thru Ukraine and Poland. Ukraine and Poland are to states that has troubled relations with Russia. In Poland’s case there is also a dispute with Western European states in EU politics. Poland has leverage over Western European states like Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and France due to it’s abillity to cut off the supply of hydrocarbons.

    Ukraine also gets a similar leverage against Russia. If Ukraine were to block Russian hydrocarbons from crossing it’s territory, then Poland would gain even more leverage over Russia. Ukraine and Poland could use this advantage to cooperate to strenghten their position against Western Europe, USA and Russia. This is why Russia wants the pipelines bypassing Poland and Ukraine.

    Western Europe would also be more able to stand up to Eastern Europe and the Visegrad group by removing this leverage. Not everything is about external politics, in my mind this is about internal EU politics for the West Europeans.

    Besides the politics these pipelines are also economic investments for Western Europe and Russia. The EU also becomes more independant of the United States. These pipelines should not be neccesary as it is probably cheaper to continue to use overland pipes, but it will improve the position of many Europeans states.

    If Eastern Europe and USA tries to stop this, then they are just malevolent. Instead USA and Eastern Europe should not try to hurt Western Europe, they can do this while weakening Russian economy and hold over Western Europe. The best solution for doing this would be to promote a trans-caspian pipeline from Azerbajian to Turkmenistan.

    “if Russia really is a rival or threat, why pay them billions and billions when instead these billions can be paid to an ally and protector who has allowed you to save a lot of money because they took on your defense responsibilities?”

    Germany has not been threatened by any outside power since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The American decision to have high military spending is their own, they cannot demand that others should so the same. The military does not need consistently larger proportion of the state revenues.

    • Replies: @Medvedev
    @Rattus Norwegius


    The American decision to have high military spending is their own, they cannot demand that others should so the same.
     
    As a member of NATO Germany agreed to spend 2% of their GDP on defense. As well as other NATO members.
    Someone agrees to pay $2,000 per month to rent an apartment and signs the agreement. A month later decides to pay only $1,000 "Oh, let's my neighbor pay the rest".

    Replies: @Rattus Norwegius

  355. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Philip Owen

    I wouldn't quite call it a "very strong" idea, but yes, we Russian nationalists are doing a lot to make that a reality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7yal9Gat0

    In my ideal future there will be Museums of the Russian Genocide beneath what used to be Lenin's Mausoleum and in cities across the world. Much like how the Jewish Museum & Center of Tolerance graces Moscow today - so lame to tell the story of others' holocausts, but not your own.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Philip Owen, @Rattus Norwegius

    Why don’t you open such a museum or museums in Russia?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Rattus Norwegius

    Contribute to him.

  356. @Anatoly Karlin
    @iffen

    More that I just forgot, though I shouldn't have, since one of the persons described by this is an occasional commenter on this very blog!

    Of course American citizenship can be inferior in that the US makes impudent and insane claims on your earnings. And doesn't give you Schengen access.

    Replies: @iffen, @Josep

    the US makes impudent and insane claims on your earnings

    Don’t know if this is part of it, but let’s not forget that citizens of the US, when living abroad, have to pay taxes to both the US and the country they’re living in. The only other country to perform citizenship-based taxation is Eritrea.
    (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-31/fatca-needs-go-unfortunately-fatca-refugees-are-never-coming-back)
    With what Trump is doing in the Middle East, I doubt he’ll repeal FATCA before 2020.

  357. FB says:

    I don’t know any actual Russians living in Russia who would be other than disgusted at the notion that pathological wanker Anatoly Karlin represents them or their worldview in any way shape or form…[there may be some on the fringe, as in any society, but they are not typical]…

    The Russian character does not identify with any ‘white identity’…but rather a Slav identity shaped in the context of centuries-long conflict between Slavs and Germanics…

    Here Karlin conflates a lot of separate issues into one big white victimhood trope…pandering to the extremists here on this website…and seeks to misrepresent the typical Russian as having some sort of sympathy to colonialist settlers who for centuries lived on stolen land…

    These ‘farmers’ are in most cases owners of huge properties [plantations] that employ vast numbers of blacks to do the manual labor…they are not family farms, which were the norm when I was a kid, but which are now a thing of the past…

    This demise of the small family farm is itself an extremely grave issue on many levels, including the toxic nature of modern food production on factory farms…an entire book could be written just on that…and the establishment of what is essentially a global food commodity cartel, which seeks to undermine the remaining small-scale food production in developing countries…

    That the present day Boers in South Africa are in a bad situation is true…and these people are certainly worthy of sympathy…they are not to blame for the sins of their forebears…and let’s face it colonialism, while making Europe rich off the backs of colored people for centuries…now has produced chickens that are coming home to roost…

    Historians note that the post-colonial migration of more affluent members of colonial lands like India for example…is a case of people following their stolen wealth…as Britain and France pulled out of their former colonies, Indians and Algerians with the means to place themselves into the home countries of their former colonial masters chose to do so…

    This is a consequence that is perfectly natural…nothing in human affairs is without consequence…just as every action in the physical world has an equal and opposite reaction…

    Today the migrant crisis of Europe is due to one simple fact…US and Nato wars of destruction in the Middle East that destroyed in whole or in part several populous countries and uprooted literally millions…what benefit has come from destroying Libya…?…the country employed millions of Africans doing jobs that Libyans didn’t want to do…

    Now that Libya has been turned into a shithole by the US, UK and France…those same Africans are streaming into Europe…poetic justice some might call it…and yes, at the same time the ordinary folks in those European countries do not appreciate this…it is being rammed down their throats and it is their tax money that pays for these migrants…they have justifiably had enough…

    This is how most Russians view these things…the shiteater Karlin is attempting here, like fellow shiteater Bausman, to try to present a fake image of Russian society that does not exist…

    The current rise in white victimhood sentiment is another purely Western contortion that has nothing to do with Russia…nobody in Russia has even heard of white victimhood, or if they have, they rightfully reject it as just a continuation of fascist Germanic ideology…

    As the chickens come home to roost and the West reaps its just rewards, this slide into fascism is inevitable…it actually is a two-sided coin…the ‘liberal’ and globalist fascists on the one hand who continue to attempt to prolong Russophobia…and the right wing white supremacist faction on the other side, who have come up with some idiotic notion that Russians actually identify with them…when in actual fact they don’t…since most Russians are repulsed by fascist ideology…

    The solution for ordinary Europeans is clear…they can remove Merkel, Micron and others if they choose to do so…but they don’t…the populist parties of Le Pen, AfD and others are not actually fascist and have nothing to do with fascism…they hear and connect with the ordinary folks who are suffering from this unhinged migration and the demographic consequences that will follow…

    Unfortunately for the Stormfronters attracted like flies to shit on this forum, ordinary European folks might actually elect honest leaders like Le Pen, if they were not turned off by the racist morons who flock uninvited and unwelcome to these populist parties…

    It is this persistent strain of racism ingrained in an admittedly small portion of European society that is the real problem…there is nothing wrong with a Europe for Europeans…in fact it is quite natural and healthy…but the haters just go too far and repulse moderate ordinary folks who are the silent majority…and scare them right into the hands of the globalist fascists like Merkel and Micron…

    Russia has nothing to do with the migrant crisis and no Russian of sound mind would identify with shiteating troll Karlin and his attempt to link the migrant crisis to Russia on this website…

    • Agree: Okechukwu
    • Replies: @Dindo Nuffin
    @FB

    I posted this before I reading your comment. I have no idea about how Russians or Slavs view others but I do concur with what you say.

    , @melanf
    @FB


    This is how most Russians view these things…the shiteater Karlin is attempting here, like fellow shiteater Bausman, to try to present a fake image of Russian society that does not exist…

    The current rise in white victimhood sentiment is another purely Western contortion that has nothing to do with Russia
     
    Look in Yandex,
    https://yandex.ru/search/?text=%D0%B1%D1%83%D1%80%D1%8B%20%D1%85%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%8F%D1%82%20%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%81%D1%8F%20%D0%B2%20%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8E&lr=37180
    and see that Carlin in this case is the mainstream.

    Replies: @FB

    , @Hyperborean
    @FB

    This ''karma'' agitation-propaganda is stupid.

    If Stalin had conquered all of Europe, there would be very few subaltern emigrants in Europe, does this mean Europeans are being punished for rejecting Communism?

    And if karma works the way you believe it to work, then how come the KSA is prospering and faces no punishment today for having millions of de facto slaves, let alone for historical Arab history of imperialist expansionism and slavery?

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @FB

    Approximately 1% of Russians give a shit about muh colonialism you complete and utter faggot.

    First two sentences of the Vzlyag report on this story: https://vz.ru/society/2018/7/5/930967.html


    A delegation of African Afrikaner arrived in Stavropol, expressing a desire to move to Russia and form an agricultural colony. It is clear that they are driving these people from South Africa - pogroms, black racism and confiscation of land.
     
    Vzglyad is one of the most popular news/opinion sites in Russia.

    TLDR: Get bent. And jump off a helicopter.

    Replies: @FB

  358. In the seventies, a bunch of S Africans of Indian origin came to Bombay. I remember a 18 yr old was admitted to the 8th standard, a grade where all his classmates were 13 or 14 years old and his younger brother was in the 6th grade and 16 yrs old. I finished with high school at 15 (1st to 11th grade).
    Indians and coloreds were not allowed to study until the age of ten by the whites; this was one aspect of apartheid, and why the whole world sanctioned S Africa.
    You reap what you sow or as the new trendy term’Karma is a bitch’ says is apt. I think what they are reaping the rotten fruits of their karma. Am I sorry for them? of course I am. But the blacks and browns were human then and I felt sorry for them then as well.

    • Replies: @Rogue
    @Dindo Nuffin

    About Asians and Coloureds not allowed to have schooling in South Africa before age 10, I'm not sure about. I don't think I can take your word for that, but maybe you're right.

    The biggest mistake that the Afrikaners made was to essentially make enemies out of the Coloured and Asian people when they introduced apartheid. These latter people were more White-aligned than Black-aligned, and that remains true today.

    I must also mention though, that White SA paid for most of the education of Blacks, Coloureds and Asians during the Apartheid years. Indeed, a hefty chunk of White taxpayers money went to that very cause, though White education was better funded.

    As well, the Indian population of SA were offered a free passage back to India by the "evil" apartheid regime. Very few took it up. Those that did advised their brethren in SA to stay put. By contrast, many Indians have left South Africa's shores since the wonders of Black rule.

    Blacks in SA possibly dislike Indians even more than Whites. This is possibly because of Indian success.

  359. @Philip Owen
    @Gerard2

    The Afrikaners have big families. That is a large part of the motivation to look for large areas of cheap land elsewhere. I referenced 2nd sons in an earlier comment. They don't seem in a panic. Cheap land for 49 years was not attractive. They want inalienable ownership. And as I said, although it wasn't high on the list, they noted what happened to the Volga Germans.

    Replies: @Rattus Norwegius

    “The Afrikaners have big families.”
    Do they? According to wikipedia White South Africans have a fertility rate of 1,7. Maybe the Afrikaners you have met does not represent the average Afrikaner. Perhaps Afrikaners have a higher fertility rate than British South Africans though? The White South African TFR is the product of mostly Afrikaners and British South Africans with some input from white minorities.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Rattus Norwegius

    Mine are religious rural farmers. Unemployed steelworkers have smaller families.

  360. Russia needs, not more Boers, but more Africans like Abram Petrovich Gannibal.

  361. @FB
    I don't know any actual Russians living in Russia who would be other than disgusted at the notion that pathological wanker Anatoly Karlin represents them or their worldview in any way shape or form...[there may be some on the fringe, as in any society, but they are not typical]...

    The Russian character does not identify with any 'white identity'...but rather a Slav identity shaped in the context of centuries-long conflict between Slavs and Germanics...

    Here Karlin conflates a lot of separate issues into one big white victimhood trope...pandering to the extremists here on this website...and seeks to misrepresent the typical Russian as having some sort of sympathy to colonialist settlers who for centuries lived on stolen land...

    These 'farmers' are in most cases owners of huge properties [plantations] that employ vast numbers of blacks to do the manual labor...they are not family farms, which were the norm when I was a kid, but which are now a thing of the past...

    This demise of the small family farm is itself an extremely grave issue on many levels, including the toxic nature of modern food production on factory farms...an entire book could be written just on that...and the establishment of what is essentially a global food commodity cartel, which seeks to undermine the remaining small-scale food production in developing countries...

    That the present day Boers in South Africa are in a bad situation is true...and these people are certainly worthy of sympathy...they are not to blame for the sins of their forebears...and let's face it colonialism, while making Europe rich off the backs of colored people for centuries...now has produced chickens that are coming home to roost...

    Historians note that the post-colonial migration of more affluent members of colonial lands like India for example...is a case of people following their stolen wealth...as Britain and France pulled out of their former colonies, Indians and Algerians with the means to place themselves into the home countries of their former colonial masters chose to do so...

    This is a consequence that is perfectly natural...nothing in human affairs is without consequence...just as every action in the physical world has an equal and opposite reaction...

    Today the migrant crisis of Europe is due to one simple fact...US and Nato wars of destruction in the Middle East that destroyed in whole or in part several populous countries and uprooted literally millions...what benefit has come from destroying Libya...?...the country employed millions of Africans doing jobs that Libyans didn't want to do...

    Now that Libya has been turned into a shithole by the US, UK and France...those same Africans are streaming into Europe...poetic justice some might call it...and yes, at the same time the ordinary folks in those European countries do not appreciate this...it is being rammed down their throats and it is their tax money that pays for these migrants...they have justifiably had enough...

    This is how most Russians view these things...the shiteater Karlin is attempting here, like fellow shiteater Bausman, to try to present a fake image of Russian society that does not exist...

    The current rise in white victimhood sentiment is another purely Western contortion that has nothing to do with Russia...nobody in Russia has even heard of white victimhood, or if they have, they rightfully reject it as just a continuation of fascist Germanic ideology...

    As the chickens come home to roost and the West reaps its just rewards, this slide into fascism is inevitable...it actually is a two-sided coin...the 'liberal' and globalist fascists on the one hand who continue to attempt to prolong Russophobia...and the right wing white supremacist faction on the other side, who have come up with some idiotic notion that Russians actually identify with them...when in actual fact they don't...since most Russians are repulsed by fascist ideology...

    The solution for ordinary Europeans is clear...they can remove Merkel, Micron and others if they choose to do so...but they don't...the populist parties of Le Pen, AfD and others are not actually fascist and have nothing to do with fascism...they hear and connect with the ordinary folks who are suffering from this unhinged migration and the demographic consequences that will follow...

    Unfortunately for the Stormfronters attracted like flies to shit on this forum, ordinary European folks might actually elect honest leaders like Le Pen, if they were not turned off by the racist morons who flock uninvited and unwelcome to these populist parties...

    It is this persistent strain of racism ingrained in an admittedly small portion of European society that is the real problem...there is nothing wrong with a Europe for Europeans...in fact it is quite natural and healthy...but the haters just go too far and repulse moderate ordinary folks who are the silent majority...and scare them right into the hands of the globalist fascists like Merkel and Micron...

    Russia has nothing to do with the migrant crisis and no Russian of sound mind would identify with shiteating troll Karlin and his attempt to link the migrant crisis to Russia on this website...

    Replies: @Dindo Nuffin, @melanf, @Hyperborean, @Anatoly Karlin

    I posted this before I reading your comment. I have no idea about how Russians or Slavs view others but I do concur with what you say.

  362. @AP
    @Marcus


    So you think overall Ukrainization was a failure or just the language policy?
     
    The natural process was that as peasants became literate they kept their language, and cities that had spoken a different language switched it the peasant language along with urbanization and the growth of cities. This happened in the Baltics (cities had previously been German-speaking), Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, and Galicia (ironically under the Soviets who deemed Ukrainian a lesser evil than Polish). This process began in Russian Empire Ukraine in 1917 (in some cases earlier) but was ended by the Bolsheviks in the early 1930s, when they arrested and deported or shot a lot of Ukrainian teachers and forced many of the incoming peasants to study in Russian. They allowed the Ukrainian schools to continue to exist in the villages so it was not a complete wipe-out as was done in 19th century France. But rather than Kiev becoming a Ukrainian-speaking city as Ukrainians moved in from the countryside, it grew into a huge ethnic Ukrainian but Russian-speaking city.

    It’s arguable that all the general secretaries after Stalin were at least partly Ukrainian.
     
    Khrushchev and Andropov weren't. Brezhnev is questionable, Chernenko and Gorbie were half-Ukrainian.

    though there were some prominent Rusyn noblemen in imperial service IIRC.
     
    Catherine the Great's Chancellor was an ethnic Ukrainian nobleman:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Bezborodko

    Prince Alexander Andreyevich Bezborodko (Russian: Алекса́ндр Андре́евич Безборо́дко; Ukrainian: Олександр Андрійович Безбородько;25 March [O.S. 14 March] 1747 – 6 April 1799) was the Grand Chancellor of Russia and chief architect of Catherine the Great's foreign policy after the death of Nikita Panin.

    ::::::::::::::

    He is rumored to have been the anonymous author of a proto-Ukrainian nationalist script contrasting Little Russians, true heirs of ancient Rus, and Tatar-like Great Russians:

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CI%5CS%5CIstoriiaRusovIT.htm

    Replies: @Philip Owen, @Rattus Norwegius, @Marcus

    Would you say that Ukrainians did well in the Russian Empire?

    Were the Russian Empire a better deal for Ukraine and Ukrainians than the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth, Ottoman Empire(and vassals, allies, influence) or Austria-Hungary?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Rattus Norwegius


    Would you say that Ukrainians did well in the Russian Empire
     
    It depends on time period and people. Soon after Ukraine was absorbed, nobles and Cossack officers (two overlapping groups) who didn't mind an erosion of political autonomy did well, because they got more rights at the expense of the peasants, who saw their burden of serfdom get worse.

    After serfdom was abolished, by the late 19th and early 20th century, Ukrainians were doing fine, provided they weren't into local nationalist activism. One of my grandparents was from a peasant family, born a few years before the Revolution (too young to remember much personally, but heard plenty from parents and other older villagers). Essentially the tax man came along once a year, collected a modest amount, and otherwise the government left people alone. People who worked hard and saved/invested surplus did well, those who drank a lot did not. There was no persecution whatsoever.

    Were the Russian Empire a better deal for Ukraine and Ukrainians than the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth, Ottoman Empire(and vassals, allies, influence) or Austria-Hungary?
     
    It's hard to say whether Russian Empire or Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (of similar times) were better. Serfs were treated about equally badly in both. Nobles had much more rights and personal freedoms in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. A scion of the old Ruthenian (Ukrainian) Vyshnevetsky family became a Polish king though his father had converted to Roman Catholicism and married a Polish woman. OTOH, for several decades Orthodox were treated poorly in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (though many of them still lived very well and were quite loyal).

    Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth set the stage for a cultural "golden age" in Ukraine which continued while Ukraine had kept its autonomy (and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth traditions) under Russia but which was eventually snuffed out by the Russian state. Ukraine then experienced a braindrain and was reduced to a provincial backwater.

    Austria-Hungary was probably the best deal of all. Serfdom abolished early, mass schooling leading to full literacy of schoolchildren a generation earlier than in the Russian Empire, voting and political parties, improved wealth, etc.

    Replies: @Marcus, @Rattus Norwegius

  363. @AP
    @Dmitry


    AP could be correct about jobs in hi-tech, because of the outsourcing of development work to Ukraine where the salaries are far lower.
     
    What do you mean, "could be?" It's rather obvious I am.

    http://www.businesscomputingworld.co.uk/what-you-should-know-about-ukraines-booming-it-sector/

    More than 3,000 service companies, more than 1,000 startups, about two dozen R&D centers, half a dozen profile associations and up to 15 IT clusters operate on the market. Several of the largest export-oriented companies feel quite confident in the market and have long-term development prospects. Moreover, according to Kyiv Post, 18 outsourcing companies were included in the list of the best high-tech companies in the world.

    Export of IT-products and services. Ukraine is now the leading software development center in Eastern and Central Europe and is one of the largest exporters of IT products and services in the world. IT industry is one of the priority sectors for the export strategy of Ukraine.

    The main achievement of 2017 is the fact that the Ukrainian IT industry has finally returned to pre-crisis growth rates. If in the past three years they were closer to 10%, then this year the market has grown by about 18%.

    Replies: @Rattus Norwegius

    This is a good trend for Ukraine.

  364. @FB
    I don't know any actual Russians living in Russia who would be other than disgusted at the notion that pathological wanker Anatoly Karlin represents them or their worldview in any way shape or form...[there may be some on the fringe, as in any society, but they are not typical]...

    The Russian character does not identify with any 'white identity'...but rather a Slav identity shaped in the context of centuries-long conflict between Slavs and Germanics...

    Here Karlin conflates a lot of separate issues into one big white victimhood trope...pandering to the extremists here on this website...and seeks to misrepresent the typical Russian as having some sort of sympathy to colonialist settlers who for centuries lived on stolen land...

    These 'farmers' are in most cases owners of huge properties [plantations] that employ vast numbers of blacks to do the manual labor...they are not family farms, which were the norm when I was a kid, but which are now a thing of the past...

    This demise of the small family farm is itself an extremely grave issue on many levels, including the toxic nature of modern food production on factory farms...an entire book could be written just on that...and the establishment of what is essentially a global food commodity cartel, which seeks to undermine the remaining small-scale food production in developing countries...

    That the present day Boers in South Africa are in a bad situation is true...and these people are certainly worthy of sympathy...they are not to blame for the sins of their forebears...and let's face it colonialism, while making Europe rich off the backs of colored people for centuries...now has produced chickens that are coming home to roost...

    Historians note that the post-colonial migration of more affluent members of colonial lands like India for example...is a case of people following their stolen wealth...as Britain and France pulled out of their former colonies, Indians and Algerians with the means to place themselves into the home countries of their former colonial masters chose to do so...

    This is a consequence that is perfectly natural...nothing in human affairs is without consequence...just as every action in the physical world has an equal and opposite reaction...

    Today the migrant crisis of Europe is due to one simple fact...US and Nato wars of destruction in the Middle East that destroyed in whole or in part several populous countries and uprooted literally millions...what benefit has come from destroying Libya...?...the country employed millions of Africans doing jobs that Libyans didn't want to do...

    Now that Libya has been turned into a shithole by the US, UK and France...those same Africans are streaming into Europe...poetic justice some might call it...and yes, at the same time the ordinary folks in those European countries do not appreciate this...it is being rammed down their throats and it is their tax money that pays for these migrants...they have justifiably had enough...

    This is how most Russians view these things...the shiteater Karlin is attempting here, like fellow shiteater Bausman, to try to present a fake image of Russian society that does not exist...

    The current rise in white victimhood sentiment is another purely Western contortion that has nothing to do with Russia...nobody in Russia has even heard of white victimhood, or if they have, they rightfully reject it as just a continuation of fascist Germanic ideology...

    As the chickens come home to roost and the West reaps its just rewards, this slide into fascism is inevitable...it actually is a two-sided coin...the 'liberal' and globalist fascists on the one hand who continue to attempt to prolong Russophobia...and the right wing white supremacist faction on the other side, who have come up with some idiotic notion that Russians actually identify with them...when in actual fact they don't...since most Russians are repulsed by fascist ideology...

    The solution for ordinary Europeans is clear...they can remove Merkel, Micron and others if they choose to do so...but they don't...the populist parties of Le Pen, AfD and others are not actually fascist and have nothing to do with fascism...they hear and connect with the ordinary folks who are suffering from this unhinged migration and the demographic consequences that will follow...

    Unfortunately for the Stormfronters attracted like flies to shit on this forum, ordinary European folks might actually elect honest leaders like Le Pen, if they were not turned off by the racist morons who flock uninvited and unwelcome to these populist parties...

    It is this persistent strain of racism ingrained in an admittedly small portion of European society that is the real problem...there is nothing wrong with a Europe for Europeans...in fact it is quite natural and healthy...but the haters just go too far and repulse moderate ordinary folks who are the silent majority...and scare them right into the hands of the globalist fascists like Merkel and Micron...

    Russia has nothing to do with the migrant crisis and no Russian of sound mind would identify with shiteating troll Karlin and his attempt to link the migrant crisis to Russia on this website...

    Replies: @Dindo Nuffin, @melanf, @Hyperborean, @Anatoly Karlin

    This is how most Russians view these things…the shiteater Karlin is attempting here, like fellow shiteater Bausman, to try to present a fake image of Russian society that does not exist…

    The current rise in white victimhood sentiment is another purely Western contortion that has nothing to do with Russia

    Look in Yandex,
    https://yandex.ru/search/?text=%D0%B1%D1%83%D1%80%D1%8B%20%D1%85%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%8F%D1%82%20%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%81%D1%8F%20%D0%B2%20%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8E&lr=37180
    and see that Carlin in this case is the mainstream.

    • Replies: @FB
    @melanf

    Bullshit...any such idiocy is the direct result of agit-prop of the Bausman kind...affecting in this case only a fringe of uneducated Russian yahoos who don't count for anything...

    Replies: @Dmitry

  365. @FB
    I don't know any actual Russians living in Russia who would be other than disgusted at the notion that pathological wanker Anatoly Karlin represents them or their worldview in any way shape or form...[there may be some on the fringe, as in any society, but they are not typical]...

    The Russian character does not identify with any 'white identity'...but rather a Slav identity shaped in the context of centuries-long conflict between Slavs and Germanics...

    Here Karlin conflates a lot of separate issues into one big white victimhood trope...pandering to the extremists here on this website...and seeks to misrepresent the typical Russian as having some sort of sympathy to colonialist settlers who for centuries lived on stolen land...

    These 'farmers' are in most cases owners of huge properties [plantations] that employ vast numbers of blacks to do the manual labor...they are not family farms, which were the norm when I was a kid, but which are now a thing of the past...

    This demise of the small family farm is itself an extremely grave issue on many levels, including the toxic nature of modern food production on factory farms...an entire book could be written just on that...and the establishment of what is essentially a global food commodity cartel, which seeks to undermine the remaining small-scale food production in developing countries...

    That the present day Boers in South Africa are in a bad situation is true...and these people are certainly worthy of sympathy...they are not to blame for the sins of their forebears...and let's face it colonialism, while making Europe rich off the backs of colored people for centuries...now has produced chickens that are coming home to roost...

    Historians note that the post-colonial migration of more affluent members of colonial lands like India for example...is a case of people following their stolen wealth...as Britain and France pulled out of their former colonies, Indians and Algerians with the means to place themselves into the home countries of their former colonial masters chose to do so...

    This is a consequence that is perfectly natural...nothing in human affairs is without consequence...just as every action in the physical world has an equal and opposite reaction...

    Today the migrant crisis of Europe is due to one simple fact...US and Nato wars of destruction in the Middle East that destroyed in whole or in part several populous countries and uprooted literally millions...what benefit has come from destroying Libya...?...the country employed millions of Africans doing jobs that Libyans didn't want to do...

    Now that Libya has been turned into a shithole by the US, UK and France...those same Africans are streaming into Europe...poetic justice some might call it...and yes, at the same time the ordinary folks in those European countries do not appreciate this...it is being rammed down their throats and it is their tax money that pays for these migrants...they have justifiably had enough...

    This is how most Russians view these things...the shiteater Karlin is attempting here, like fellow shiteater Bausman, to try to present a fake image of Russian society that does not exist...

    The current rise in white victimhood sentiment is another purely Western contortion that has nothing to do with Russia...nobody in Russia has even heard of white victimhood, or if they have, they rightfully reject it as just a continuation of fascist Germanic ideology...

    As the chickens come home to roost and the West reaps its just rewards, this slide into fascism is inevitable...it actually is a two-sided coin...the 'liberal' and globalist fascists on the one hand who continue to attempt to prolong Russophobia...and the right wing white supremacist faction on the other side, who have come up with some idiotic notion that Russians actually identify with them...when in actual fact they don't...since most Russians are repulsed by fascist ideology...

    The solution for ordinary Europeans is clear...they can remove Merkel, Micron and others if they choose to do so...but they don't...the populist parties of Le Pen, AfD and others are not actually fascist and have nothing to do with fascism...they hear and connect with the ordinary folks who are suffering from this unhinged migration and the demographic consequences that will follow...

    Unfortunately for the Stormfronters attracted like flies to shit on this forum, ordinary European folks might actually elect honest leaders like Le Pen, if they were not turned off by the racist morons who flock uninvited and unwelcome to these populist parties...

    It is this persistent strain of racism ingrained in an admittedly small portion of European society that is the real problem...there is nothing wrong with a Europe for Europeans...in fact it is quite natural and healthy...but the haters just go too far and repulse moderate ordinary folks who are the silent majority...and scare them right into the hands of the globalist fascists like Merkel and Micron...

    Russia has nothing to do with the migrant crisis and no Russian of sound mind would identify with shiteating troll Karlin and his attempt to link the migrant crisis to Russia on this website...

    Replies: @Dindo Nuffin, @melanf, @Hyperborean, @Anatoly Karlin

    This ”karma” agitation-propaganda is stupid.

    If Stalin had conquered all of Europe, there would be very few subaltern emigrants in Europe, does this mean Europeans are being punished for rejecting Communism?

    And if karma works the way you believe it to work, then how come the KSA is prospering and faces no punishment today for having millions of de facto slaves, let alone for historical Arab history of imperialist expansionism and slavery?

  366. @melanf
    @FB


    This is how most Russians view these things…the shiteater Karlin is attempting here, like fellow shiteater Bausman, to try to present a fake image of Russian society that does not exist…

    The current rise in white victimhood sentiment is another purely Western contortion that has nothing to do with Russia
     
    Look in Yandex,
    https://yandex.ru/search/?text=%D0%B1%D1%83%D1%80%D1%8B%20%D1%85%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%8F%D1%82%20%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%81%D1%8F%20%D0%B2%20%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8E&lr=37180
    and see that Carlin in this case is the mainstream.

    Replies: @FB

    Bullshit…any such idiocy is the direct result of agit-prop of the Bausman kind…affecting in this case only a fringe of uneducated Russian yahoos who don’t count for anything…

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @FB

    What's bad, in your opinion, about Karlin's comment?

    Karlin hopes for an improvement of human capital (and this rich Boer people moving in would be cool), and he see some appeal to Western right-wing audience (because of the persecution of Boers - white people - in South Africa is fashionable topic this year that can be seen on YouTube and Twitter).

    Karlin does not write propaganda or even try to persuade people, just writes his personal view and to others in an honest way. It's why such everyone here with different views to him, but still posting here everyday.

    Russian media is interested in improving morale in the audience (the idea that civilized white people want to immigrate - it's a way of complimenting yourself).

    -

    Interesting comments in the story by Philip Owen who met these people before, and journalists reporting the story should interview him - he provides original information that does not exist in the other media coverage of this story.

  367. @anon
    South Africa is a dangerous place because it's part of Africa. Africans are a violent race. The Boers relocated to Africa generations ago and call themselves Afrikaans. Since they identify as Africans they should live like Africans which means they suffer the same fate as black Africans. I'm sure thousands if not millions of Africans suffer the same fate and violence each day, no different than what these white Africans are facing. Why should they be treated differently?

    Replies: @jilles dykstra, @Hippopotamusdrome

    I’m sure thousands if not millions of Africans suffer the same fate and violence each day,.. Why should they be treated differently?

    No one cares because the perpetrators of the violence are also black. If apartheid had been a black on black issue, no one would have cared and SA would not have been sanctioned in the first place, and the ANC would have been crushed and no one would have cared about that either.

    Let the Boers become honorary Africans and break out the machetes and channel their inner General Butt Naked and fight on an even playing field.

  368. @Rattus Norwegius
    @Philip Owen

    "The Afrikaners have big families."
    Do they? According to wikipedia White South Africans have a fertility rate of 1,7. Maybe the Afrikaners you have met does not represent the average Afrikaner. Perhaps Afrikaners have a higher fertility rate than British South Africans though? The White South African TFR is the product of mostly Afrikaners and British South Africans with some input from white minorities.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    Mine are religious rural farmers. Unemployed steelworkers have smaller families.

  369. @FB
    I don't know any actual Russians living in Russia who would be other than disgusted at the notion that pathological wanker Anatoly Karlin represents them or their worldview in any way shape or form...[there may be some on the fringe, as in any society, but they are not typical]...

    The Russian character does not identify with any 'white identity'...but rather a Slav identity shaped in the context of centuries-long conflict between Slavs and Germanics...

    Here Karlin conflates a lot of separate issues into one big white victimhood trope...pandering to the extremists here on this website...and seeks to misrepresent the typical Russian as having some sort of sympathy to colonialist settlers who for centuries lived on stolen land...

    These 'farmers' are in most cases owners of huge properties [plantations] that employ vast numbers of blacks to do the manual labor...they are not family farms, which were the norm when I was a kid, but which are now a thing of the past...

    This demise of the small family farm is itself an extremely grave issue on many levels, including the toxic nature of modern food production on factory farms...an entire book could be written just on that...and the establishment of what is essentially a global food commodity cartel, which seeks to undermine the remaining small-scale food production in developing countries...

    That the present day Boers in South Africa are in a bad situation is true...and these people are certainly worthy of sympathy...they are not to blame for the sins of their forebears...and let's face it colonialism, while making Europe rich off the backs of colored people for centuries...now has produced chickens that are coming home to roost...

    Historians note that the post-colonial migration of more affluent members of colonial lands like India for example...is a case of people following their stolen wealth...as Britain and France pulled out of their former colonies, Indians and Algerians with the means to place themselves into the home countries of their former colonial masters chose to do so...

    This is a consequence that is perfectly natural...nothing in human affairs is without consequence...just as every action in the physical world has an equal and opposite reaction...

    Today the migrant crisis of Europe is due to one simple fact...US and Nato wars of destruction in the Middle East that destroyed in whole or in part several populous countries and uprooted literally millions...what benefit has come from destroying Libya...?...the country employed millions of Africans doing jobs that Libyans didn't want to do...

    Now that Libya has been turned into a shithole by the US, UK and France...those same Africans are streaming into Europe...poetic justice some might call it...and yes, at the same time the ordinary folks in those European countries do not appreciate this...it is being rammed down their throats and it is their tax money that pays for these migrants...they have justifiably had enough...

    This is how most Russians view these things...the shiteater Karlin is attempting here, like fellow shiteater Bausman, to try to present a fake image of Russian society that does not exist...

    The current rise in white victimhood sentiment is another purely Western contortion that has nothing to do with Russia...nobody in Russia has even heard of white victimhood, or if they have, they rightfully reject it as just a continuation of fascist Germanic ideology...

    As the chickens come home to roost and the West reaps its just rewards, this slide into fascism is inevitable...it actually is a two-sided coin...the 'liberal' and globalist fascists on the one hand who continue to attempt to prolong Russophobia...and the right wing white supremacist faction on the other side, who have come up with some idiotic notion that Russians actually identify with them...when in actual fact they don't...since most Russians are repulsed by fascist ideology...

    The solution for ordinary Europeans is clear...they can remove Merkel, Micron and others if they choose to do so...but they don't...the populist parties of Le Pen, AfD and others are not actually fascist and have nothing to do with fascism...they hear and connect with the ordinary folks who are suffering from this unhinged migration and the demographic consequences that will follow...

    Unfortunately for the Stormfronters attracted like flies to shit on this forum, ordinary European folks might actually elect honest leaders like Le Pen, if they were not turned off by the racist morons who flock uninvited and unwelcome to these populist parties...

    It is this persistent strain of racism ingrained in an admittedly small portion of European society that is the real problem...there is nothing wrong with a Europe for Europeans...in fact it is quite natural and healthy...but the haters just go too far and repulse moderate ordinary folks who are the silent majority...and scare them right into the hands of the globalist fascists like Merkel and Micron...

    Russia has nothing to do with the migrant crisis and no Russian of sound mind would identify with shiteating troll Karlin and his attempt to link the migrant crisis to Russia on this website...

    Replies: @Dindo Nuffin, @melanf, @Hyperborean, @Anatoly Karlin

    Approximately 1% of Russians give a shit about muh colonialism you complete and utter faggot.

    First two sentences of the Vzlyag report on this story: https://vz.ru/society/2018/7/5/930967.html

    A delegation of African Afrikaner arrived in Stavropol, expressing a desire to move to Russia and form an agricultural colony. It is clear that they are driving these people from South Africa – pogroms, black racism and confiscation of land.

    Vzglyad is one of the most popular news/opinion sites in Russia.

    TLDR: Get bent. And jump off a helicopter.

    • Replies: @FB
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Yeah sure nutbar...

    We are supposed to to take a shit-eating troll's word for it...just like your bogus article about 'Russian technology' where you talk about 'tablet computers' LOL...[let me know when someone figures out how to put people in space with an iphone]...

    And then proceed to blatantly lie about what was actually said in that video you posted...and the Russian language articles you pointed to...which didn't even talk about tablets...

    Not to mention your mickey mouse charts about Russia's 'output' of peer-reviewed literature...based only on databases that track only English-language papers...while ignoring an entire world of Russian language technical literature, of which you would naturally know nothing...being a gormless shit eater...

    What a sad clown...everything I've seen you write points to a serious mental illness...ie the inability to distinguish reality from fantasy...

  370. AP says:
    @Rattus Norwegius
    @AP

    Would you say that Ukrainians did well in the Russian Empire?

    Were the Russian Empire a better deal for Ukraine and Ukrainians than the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth, Ottoman Empire(and vassals, allies, influence) or Austria-Hungary?

    Replies: @AP

    Would you say that Ukrainians did well in the Russian Empire

    It depends on time period and people. Soon after Ukraine was absorbed, nobles and Cossack officers (two overlapping groups) who didn’t mind an erosion of political autonomy did well, because the