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There are millions of Gastarbeiters from Central Asia and the Caucasus in Russia. But contra /pol/ wignats and Ukrainian svidomy, it really doesn’t seem like the Kremlin intends for them to stay.

At least that’s the general gist of this Bloomberg article by Henry Meyer and Ilya Khrennikov: Putin Sticks to ‘Russia First’ Even as Workforce Shrinks. Which is more or less factual. Except that what they see as very bad, most Russians would see as good.

Vladimir Putin is taking a page from Donald Trump’s tough-on-immigration playbook. That’s bad for people like Umed and the millions of migrants from other former Soviet republics who have flocked to Russia in search of work. The 29-year-old Tajikistan native, who declined to give his full name, had been working as a delivery driver in Russia when he was deported in 2015. “They don’t want Muslims to live in the country,” says Umed, who now resides in Kazakhstan.

Immigrants are Russia’s best hope to replenish a 75-million-strong workforce that’s shrinking by 800,000 people a year. Yet their numbers are barely growing as Putin’s government has tightened regulations, largely in an attempt to curb the influx from Central Asia. This is a major headache for Russian companies, many of which are struggling to fill jobs even though the economy is stagnant.

Akshually, the process of immigrating to Russia for work is very easy for Central Asians. Once their time limit for being in Russia comes up, they take a couple of days off, renew their documents at a facility on the Kazakh-Russian border, and they’re good to go for another couple of years. At least, that’s how one taxi driver from Osh, Kyrgyzstan explained it to me. The only way to get deported for good as in the case of this Umed is to break some law or overstay your work visa.

Getting permanent residency in Russia is far harder for these people. As the article later notes:

While nationals from Central Asia make up the bulk of migrant workers in Russia, strict controls block most from acquiring citizenship or even residency papers—and the rules have been tightening for the past five years.

This is important. If you are on time-limited labor contracts in a foreign country, where ~80% of your compatriots are men, you are not going to much in the way of setting down roots or family formation. So essentially, the current immigration arrangement between Russia and the Central Asia states involve Russia getting cheap (if low quality) labor for Yandex.Taxi and construction sites, while the Central Asian polities get to enjoy massive remittances and offload part of their politically volatile youth bulge abroad. While there are costs to this for Russia as well – in particular, these guest workers depress native wages in low-skilled sectors, and make it harder for provincial Russians to migrate to Moscow and the millionik cities – permanent and significant changes to the country’s demographics are not on the cards. At least so long as guest work doesn’t go into “family reunification” territory.

“Migration should be the top priority,” says Anatoly Vishnevsky, director of the Institute of Demography at the Higher School of Economics in Moscow. … The demographic situation could be “turned around if the authorities didn’t worry about a backlash,” Vishnevsky says.

Anatoly Vishnevsky is a professor at the Higher School of Economics. Now he’s a good demographer and I have a high opinion of his professional work (even if at times his ideological predilections have colored his judgments, e.g. his skepticism about the efficacy of the maternal capital program). But on politics he is toxic, at least so far as his blank slate views on immigration are concerned. But it will be people like him will be the people who acquire more influence in the event of a color revolution or soft internal coup that brings liberals/crypto-liberals to power.

Meanwhile:

In an interview with the Financial Times last year, Putin slammed German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s decision to admit more than a million refugees in 2015, mostly from war-torn Syria, as a “cardinal mistake.” He also said he understood Trump’s campaign pledge to build a wall between Mexico and the U.S. The influx of migrants from Central Asia provokes “irritation among the local population” because of cultural differences, Putin said at a press conference in December.

During a meeting with human-rights activists in 2013, Putin bluntly stated his views on what kind of migrants he would like to see. Svetlana Gannushkina, a leading campaigner for immigrant rights, says Putin told her in a private exchange that Russia needs “people of Slavic appearance, of reproductive age, and with a good education.”

Good to see he is reading my blog.

HAIL PUTLER!

Vyacheslav Postavnin, a former deputy head of the Federal Migration Service, says the government should be doing more to ensure migrants from non-Slavic cultures integrate successfully. But nothing has been done despite a mass outbreak of nationalist riots targeting Muslim immigrants in Moscow six years ago. “Migrants still live in a parallel universe,” he says.

This is bad if the long-term goal is integration. But it is very good if there are no such plans.

Russia’s largest internet company, Yandex, whose food delivery service employs many migrants as couriers, is resorting to automation to cope with a shortage of prospective hires. It’s rolling out a suitcase-size robot that will be able to take orders to apartment building entrances.

Yandex also thinks it will be able to start introducing self-driving cars in Moscow in around 2022-23. This would constitute another major reduction in the demand for migrant labor.

***

In other immigration-related news, work to simplify Russian immigration law for high quality human capital is apparently in the final stages.

I first wrote about it in October 2018 when these proposals were first made public:

In addition to the proposed law, there is also a new “concept” for reforming Russian immigration policy by 2025, which mostly centers around simplifying naturalization for certain categories of foreign professionals. One concrete suggestion that’s known to be included is dropping the requirement to disavow existing citizenships upon getting a Russian citizenship. Hungary, Romania, and Poland are cited as examples to emulate.

As I also wrote back then, I consider this to be a very good idea:

Dropping the requirement to disavow old citizenships upon naturalization is a very good idea that I have long advocated. This is a very stupid law that inhibits the growth of human capital in Russia, and which needs to be abolished ASAP. Qualified foreigners without a criminal record. who have some level of proficiency with the Russian language, should be allowed to become citizens without giving up their old citizenships. But the occasional extremely Russophile and/or idealist aside, a Finnish, Austrian, or even American citizenship are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

I know several expats in Moscow who speak fluent Russian (more or less) and would love to get Russian citizenship, but are held back from doing so by these rules. One is the long-term partner of a Russian citizen. Another is a descendant of Tsarist generals. Another is the descendant of a famous Russian composer part of whose family became White emigres. Another is a scientist at a prestigious Russian university. This is just off the top of my head. Any of these are much better candidates than some of the people whom Russia takes in.

The only downside I can think of is that this might annoy the very few individuals who actually have given up Western citizenships for a Russian one.

Kommersant now reports that a corresponding law is in the final stages and may be introduced to the State Duma this month.

It is also reported that there will no be a need to register 5 years of uninterrupted residency in Russia and proof of income. The law is primarily aimed at countrymen abroad: “This will allow us to passportize our diaspora abroad. They want to get Russian citizenship, but they can’t, because then they’d have to abandon their own country’s citizenship. Millions of Russians live abroad and want to become citizens,” says the deputy Konstantin Zatulin.

Very notably, he used the word “russkie” [ethnic Russians], which at least until recently was a bit of a taboo in Russian officialese.

According to an earlier interview in Izvestia with another bureaucrat involved in these immigration reforms, the government maintains its goal of simplifying immigration procedures for residents of Moldova, Kazakhstan, the Ukraine, and Belorussia. “These are our neighbors, and the numbers of residents of these countries who want to get Russian citizenship are steadily growing,” said Valentina Kazakova.

Once again, this constitutes iron proof that PUTLER! reads my blog, as I have long advocated for doing just that with respect to the Ukraine and other countries in the Near Abroad.

***

So what we have, in effect, is that Russian immigration policy seems to be steadily drifting towards:

  • Cognitive elitism with respect to cultural foreigners.
  • Ethnic particularism with respect to ethnic Russians and other peoples who may be considered to be part of the cultural “Russian World.”

I have long predicted that based on Russian opinion polls “if/when competitive politics return to Russia, the result will be an Orban, a Zeman, a Netanyahu, a Salvini, not some Sorosite cuck that neoliberalism.txt hopes for.

But reality seems to be outperforming projection with PUTLER! moving to implement implicitly ethnonationalist policies under his own watch.

 
• Category: Economics • Tags: Cognitive Elitism, Immigration, Law, Russia 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. Mr. XYZ says:

    According to an earlier interview in Izvestia with another bureaucrat involved in these immigration reforms, the government maintains its goal of simplifying immigration procedures for residents of Moldova, Kazakhstan, the Ukraine, and Belorussia. “These are our neighbors, and the numbers of residents of these countries who want to get Russian citizenship are steadily growing,” said Valentina Kazakova.

    Are the rules for Kazakhstan going to be primarily geared towards non-Muslims? Because Kazakhstan has an awful lot of Muslims–albeit much more moderate than in much of the rest of the Muslim world.

    Also, as a side note, if Russia will want immigrants who look like Russians, it *might* be able to get up to several million of them, but probably not much more than that. After all, the East Slavic countries all don’t have a lot of surplus population to spare. So, there’s not that much room for potential immigration from countries such as Ukraine or Belarus unless things there will really, really deteriorate.

    Honestly, Russia’s long-term best bet in regards to improving its demographics would be to aim to increase the fertility of its existing Slavic population–and ideally of its smarter members. In the long(er)-run, this should yield powerful results due to the greater percentage of breeders among each generation. Also, Russia has a lot of Lebensraum so overpopulation thankfully shouldn’t be a worry for them for a very long time.

    • Replies: @Swedish Family
  3. fnn says:

    You can see why Cold War 2.0 is being waged. In terms of ideology, TPTB find Putinism a bigger threat than Marxism-Leninism.

  4. songbird says:

    Bloomberg would call Trump tough on immigration.

    As to Putin, I am not sure that he has established his bona fides yet. Doubletalk is pretty standard, at least early in the process. What I’d like to see is a big order for those man-catchers that the Chinese very admirably use on Africans. Whether or not they are actually necessary in apprehensions is besides the point – they are a good signal against softness and radical egalitarianism, even if they would increase Russophobia

  5. There is still a huge pool to draw from.

    Country Ethnic Russians

    Ukraine 8,300,000
    Kazakhstan 3,619,002
    Uzbekistan 640,000
    Belarus 800,000
    Kyrgyzstan 400,000
    Latvia 570,000
    Moldova 370,000
    Estonia 310,000
    Turkmenistan 300,000
    Lithuania 180,000
    Azerbaijan 140,000
    Tajikistan 68,200
    Georgia 26,586
    Armenia 11,911

    US 3,100,000
    Germany 1,213,000
    Israel 1,000,000
    Canada 550,520
    France 200,000
    Brazil 200,000
    Finland 78,400
    Argentina 88,000
    Spain. 70,927
    Australia 67,550
    UK. 35,000
    Venezuela 34,600
    Austria. 30,249
    Sweden. 20,930
    Belgium. 20,000
    Italy. 20,000
    China 15,600

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    , @neutral
  6. The “no Muslims” cucks are usually the sort of people who welcome immigration of Africans, Indians and other non-whites as long as they’re not Muslims.

    Focusing overly on Muslim immigration has the effect of implying that immigration of other non-whites is not as much of a problem and therefore acceptable.

    • Replies: @Bast
    , @Swedish Family
  7. songbird says:

    But on politics he is toxic, at least so far as his blank slate views on immigration are concerned.

    Instead of popularizing Leonard Read’s essay “I, Pencil,” and talking about how immigration is good, (((Milton Friedman))) should have written an essay called “I, Assegai” about how the Bantus make their spears.

  8. songbird says:

    Svetlana Gannushkina, a leading campaigner for immigrant rights, says Putin told her in a private exchange that Russia needs “people of Slavic appearance

    Probably a dog-whistle, for “whites.” Clever.

  9. Aidan Q says:

    Putin told her in a private exchange that Russia needs “people of Slavic appearance, of reproductive age, and with a good education.”

    Seriously? Slavic appearance?? 🤦‍♂️


    Aldar Tsydenzhapov, Gold Star of the Hero of the Russian Federation for sacrificing his life for the lives of many other Russian sailors

  10. @Aidan Q

    Close enough is good enough.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
  11. Not Raul says:

    Maybe Putler should let in more Boers. They’re good farmers, and could help reduce under-population in small towns and rural areas.

    Putler might also make Russia the Israel for oppressed Christians in the Middle East. Right now, many of them are essentially stateless. Many of them are skilled, and/or well-educated.

    This might make many Christians in the West reject the Cold War mentality being promoted by the elite.

    Also, having some residents from the region could help Russian firms do business there.

    Perhaps Armenia could let in more Armenians from the Middle East, if they aren’t doing so already. They could use more Armenians in territory also claimed by Azerbaijan.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
  12. Aidan Q says:
    @Aidan Q

    Btw, Shoigu’s Asian heritage is also evident in his architectural tastes.

    Btw, his daughter Ksenia is 29. How old is Karlin? 🤔

  13. Not Raul says:
    @Aidan Q

    That’s a very good point. Some of the best Russians had “non-Slavic” ancestors.

    Loyalty is much more important than appearance.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill, Miro23
  14. melanf says:

    For pragmatic reasons, the list of people with “Slavic appearance” should include Koreans living in Central Asia (and of course the Volga Germans). Most likely, this will happen (if these statements of Putin will be followed by real steps)

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Swedish Family
  15. melanf says:
    @Aidan Q

    Btw, Shoigu’s Asian heritage is also evident in his architectural tastes.

    It is not news, Sergei Shoigu, the Tuvan. Here is a more interesting case – the leader of Russian nationalists and anti-migration activist Matvey Tsen (half-Korean)

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  16. Aidan Q says:
    @Aidan Q

    Ksenia Shoigu Karlin 🤔

    Now that’s one way to get that supercilious seaman Martyanov addressing AK as “Sir”.

  17. @Blinky Bill

    Aldar Tsydenzhapov was born August 4, 1991, in Aginskoye, Agin-Buryat Autonomous Okrug. His act of bravery will forever be part of the history of the Russian Navy. He sacrificed himself in order to save the 300 members crew and the battleship. His name will forever be in the crew member list of the destroyer “Bystry” and his bed will be forever perfectly made and untouchable.

    Buryat OK

    • Agree: Swedish Family
    • Replies: @Denis
  18. @Not Raul

    If the experience of Volga Germans is anything to go by, Afrikaners going to Russia probably isn’t a great solution.

    From what I’ve read it seems that a Germanic, Protestant minority were never really very welcome in Russia. Maybe things are different today, but history has a tendency to repeat itself also.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
  19. @melanf

    1. He’s a nationalist, but not “a” let alone “the” “leader of Russian nationalists”, LOL. He’s just some lawyer who often handles nationalist cases.

    2. (Quarter-)Chinese, not Korean.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    , @melanf
    , @Not Raul
  20. @Anatoly Karlin

    Have you met him by any chance ? I know you haven’t met every Russian nationalist in the country. Just asking on the off chance that you have.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Gerad1234
  21. @Blinky Bill

    No, I haven’t. I have been at a few events where he was at but we never intersected.

    • Thanks: Blinky Bill
  22. Anatoly Vishnevsky is a professor at the Higher School of Economics. Now he’s a good demographer and I have a high opinion of his professional work

    I think it’s worth mentioning that immigration expert quoted in Bloomberg’s article is a Jew. This is what Anatoly Vishnevsky looks like:

    IT’S ALWAYS THE JEWS!

    The only “good” thing about this person is that it’s 84 years old, and won’t be around for long.

    • Agree: neutral
  23. @Blinky Bill

    There is still a huge pool to draw from.

    Country Ethnic Russians

    US 3,100,000
    Germany 1,213,000
    Israel 1,000,000

    No, I think you guys should keep them. Especially those Israeli Russians.

  24. @Mr. XYZ

    In the long(er)-run, this should yield powerful results due to the greater percentage of breeders among each generation.

    Friendly reminder that being a “breeder” is about culture, not genetics. My siblings have 3 + 2 + 0 + 2 kids (not including myself, but I will aim at 3+), while my parents had 5 (6 if we include a miscarriage after I was born).

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    , @A Spaniard
  25. melanf says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    He’s a nationalist, but not “a” let alone “the” “leader of Russian nationalists”,

    I retell the General opinion

    В Новосибирск из Москвы приехали Константин Крылов, Владимир Тор, Матвей Цзен и Наталья Холмогорова, лидеры Русского Общественного Движения (РОД) а Владимир Тор – один из руководителей ДПНИ.” https://tayga.info/90393

    Of course this is one of many leaders

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  26. Not Raul says:
    @Europe Europa

    I think that the situation is different now than during the Czarist era. Back then, many German Protestants considered themselves superior to Slavs, and felt that they were entitled to be treated as such.

    Boers would be grateful for the opportunity to live somewhere where they weren’t preyed upon, and wouldn’t have any illusions about getting a better deal than Slavs. They would be grateful for the same deal. It would be a huge improvement over what they have.

    • Replies: @melanf
  27. Bast says:
    @Europe Europa

    Muslims represent 40% of all work place discrimination complaints in the west.

    I agree with your take but it’s just a fact tgat it’s very practical and utilitarian to just have a no Muslim policy

  28. @Europe Europa

    Focusing overly on Muslim immigration has the effect of implying that immigration of other non-whites is not as much of a problem and therefore acceptable.

    Very true, only I would add that white mass immigration (if this ever became a thing) would also be trouble. This is my hobby horse, I know, but it’s worth repeating to get it into people’s heads: mass immigration is always bad (for umpteen reasons; don’t get me started …); limited immigration of highly-skilled people is another question altogether and of course a good thing.

  29. Not Raul says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Tomio Okamura has a leading position in the nationalist community of the Czech Republic.

    Loyalty counts for more than appearance.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
  30. Putin in that pic kinda looks like the Annoying Orange

    • LOL: Denis
  31. @melanf

    For pragmatic reasons, the list of people with “Slavic appearance” should include Koreans living in Central Asia

    By what metric do these have a “Slavic appearance”? Volga Germans I can understand, but Koreans?

    • Replies: @melanf
  32. @Not Raul

    People probably wouldn’t be worried about immigration if it was a horde of Japanese and Korean people opening Gyoza restaurants and Internet cafes

  33. melanf says:
    @Swedish Family

    By what metric do these have a “Slavic appearance”? Volga Germans I can understand, but Koreans?

    In the hypothetical law / decree on granting Russian citizenship to persons of “Slavic appearance”, of course, there will be no mention of Slavic appearance. Most likely, it will either be vague wording about the persons of Russian culture (with further clarification of who they are), or it will be said about the indigenous peoples of Russia (which will include the Germans and Koreans who came to Central Asia from Russia)

  34. melanf says:
    @Not Raul

    I think that the situation is different now than during the Czarist era.

    In the “tsarist era”, the situation of German (in modern terms, rather Swiss-German ) colonists in Russia was quite good, since European emigration to Russia was forcibly stopped by several Royal decrees in the early 19th century

  35. Any sane person caring about his country would only want smart capable immigrants, rather than the dregs of someone else’s countries. This just shows that Putin does care about his country, in sharp contrast to the American and European elites.

  36. Dmitry says:

    For example, Armenia has a complete open border access to Russia, without a need to even register for work permits, when Armenians come to work.

    Armenians like to apply for citizenship after they are in Russia many years, but it is just a formality. They live freely without needing citizenship, just like Poles can live in Germany, under EU free labour treaties.

    The reason – because the Armenian government accepted the offers to join the Eurasian Economic Union, which removed the need for work permits on entering Russia to work.

    On the other hand, Uzbeks have to register for working permits.

    The reason? – because the Uzbek government for years, rejects Russia’s negotiations to join an Eurasian Economic Union.

    Russia’s government has always wanted Uzbekistan to join, while Uzbekistan is still resisting (Uzbek authorities don’t want to lose more workers). It’s the opposite of the supposed position of Turkey and the EU.

    Immigrants are Russia’s best hope to replenish a 75-million-strong workforce that’s shrinking by 800,000 people a year. Yet their numbers are barely growing as Putin’s government has tightened regulations,

    The problem in this sentence, is a concept that a workforce is like some generic stock that has to be “replenished”, without any interest in their quality, or what they are needed for.

    With the falling population, and the same income, then per capita quality of life increases – and this is not inapplicable in the Russian economy, where the resource extraction is not dependent on population size, but rather the latter determines into how many pieces the cake has to be cut.

  37. @melanf

    You should quit while you’re ahead. 🙂

    РОД = small, modest, if useful organization that highlights cases of nationalists being persecuted and immigrant crime. Sort of like /ourSPLC/.

    Being co-leader (or whatever) of it isn’t a big deal.

    By this standard even I could perhaps call myself a leader of Russian nationalists, having been one of the three people behind РОГПР, the most popular Russian nationalist podcast in 2017-2018.

  38. Ideafix says:

    Ethnic Asians like Shoigu can be seen as more reliable as they might be more resistant to all sorts of Western neoliberal nonsense. In this way a small amount of Confucian(ish) immigration might even be beneficial, e. g. Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, even Mongols might make better citizens and eventually merge with Russian genes.

  39. Denis says:

    In other immigration-related news, work to simplify Russian immigration law for high quality human capital is apparently in the final stages.

    Here I come, Mother Russia

  40. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Swedish Family

    Environmental factors and environmental changes obviously also affect fertility rate. That said, though, someone who lives in an urban or suburban area with a modern lifestyle and who nevertheless has lot of kids (such as Mitt Romney) is probably more likely to have children who are going to have lots of kids of their own as well.

    • Replies: @Swedish Family
  41. Mr. Hack says:
    @Aidan Q

    Karlin should seriously consider helping to fulfill his ambitious plans for repopulating a robust Russia sooner than later. It gets harder to start when you get into your forties. Being a Russian nationalist icon, my bet is that he’s already given his heart away to some urban, “real” ethnic Russian sweetheart:

    Hey Anatoly, are you finding that you’re having more and more “Mac attacks” lately? McDonald’s fries are hard to beat? 🙂

    • Replies: @216
    , @RadicalCenter
  42. Denis says:
    @Blinky Bill

    Wow, I had no idea it was that high for ethnic Russians. I knew that it was huge, but I’d always assumed that it was higher for Ukrainians or Belarussians, given their smaller populations and the fact that their lands were the battlefield. Goes to show how catastrophic that conflict was for Russia.

    The Buryats are a famous case, of course, hats off to them for their heroism.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Mitleser
  43. @Swedish Family

    We’ll see how many you end up with. My sister wanted 3 or 4 and could only manage to have 2 after 2 C-sections and an ectopic pregnancy. Women who are truly ready to commit to such numbers are hard to come by in most western countries. Especially after they’ve seen how they eat up their sleep and social life and there is no underlying culture/religion that justifies their decisions. I tend to think you need to have a certain set of psychological characteristics to get out of the conformism most women are attracted to in this cultural milieu. I can see that in my own family. My grandmothers only had 2 and 3, while my mother had four: she’s relatively asocial and always loved children. Only stopped at 4 because she nearly died after her fourth and was 40+ at the time. I’m sure there must be other sets of psychological traits that may influence fertility positively in women interacting with western cultural norms, but I doubt they are that common.

    Hope you get lucky though.

  44. Mr. Hack says:

    Here’s another Russian leader who in 1979 was already imploring young adults to start procreating more, so that society would be gainfully replenished. You can skip the first minute and a half and not miss anything of importance:

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    , @songbird
  45. @Swedish Family

    By mistake, I replied to a different comment. I should have replied to this one instead.

  46. @Aidan Q

    Every time I see a picture of Sergey Shoygu, I think of his European counterparts.

    I don’t think Putin has much to worry about there.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  47. Svevlad says:

    What exactly constitutes Slavic appearance, though? If it’s just nice way for them to say “white” then nice, otherwise a good chunk of Dinarid South Slavs would find themselves excluded.

    Though that would also be good. Too many people leaving here, we might be the first people ever to just emigrate to death.

    On the other hand I plan on fixing that heh, 10 kids and shit

  48. @Svevlad

    I think “Slavic appearance” means “Slavs only”. If he meant white in general wouldn’t he have said “European appearance”?

  49. @Bill Jones

    Shoygu didn’t do a day of military service in his life, so the comparison isn’t quite as far in his favor as pure aesthetics would imply.

    Of course pure civilians can be competent as Defense Ministers.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    , @Bill Jones
  50. @Mr. Hack

    Brezhnev was Ukrainian

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  51. @Anatoly Karlin

    Well didn’t the German geeks outperform the American jocks on the battlefield when it came to strategy
    Surely a Tuvan bureaucrat can beat this lot of Euro Stacys

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  52. @Mr. XYZ

    Environmental factors and environmental changes obviously also affect fertility rate. That said, though, someone who lives in an urban or suburban area with a modern lifestyle and who nevertheless has lot of kids (such as Mitt Romney) is probably more likely to have children who are going to have lots of kids of their own as well.

    My argument is precisely that the offspring of a Mitt Romney will not have as many kids as he has if the culture changes, so Romney is not a counterexample, and culture is still all. I’m happy to be proven wrong, but I don’t see it. (Note that for the “breeder” phenomenon to be a thing, it must live on in the face of cultural changes. This means, for one thing, that the Amish and those enthusiastic breeders in Israel (I forget their name) don’t count, since those surely impart certain breeder values onto their offspring. Or to put it by way of Senator Romney: so far as his offspring have more offspring than the norm, that’s a product of his family culture, not the genetic makeup of Romney and his wife.)

  53. Mitleser says:
    @Denis

    I knew that it was huge, but I’d always assumed that it was higher for Ukrainians or Belarussians, given their smaller populations and the fact that their lands were the battlefield.

    These are military losses.
    It is more difficult to recruit from a territory if it is a battlefield/occupied by the enemy.

  54. @Aidan Q

    Russia needs “people of Slavic appearance, of reproductive age, and with a good education.”

    What they need is not necessarily what they have.

  55. Dropping the requirement to disavow old citizenships upon naturalization is a very good idea

    A slave cannot serve two masters.
    A dual citizen cannot be loyal to two countries.

  56. songbird says:
    @Mr. Hack

    And later that year, he sent thousands of youths to die in Afghanistan or become crippled to the point where they were out of the mating market.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  57. @Korenchkin

    Sure, why not. I imagine he is competent. That said, Shoigu took over when the hard work of reform had already mostly been accomplished by Anatoly Serdyukov.

    I agree with you on the German geeks vs. Chad American jocks. But the German geeks did study military science extensively, so not seeing the relevance to Shoygu. 🙂

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  58. Thats good news. Low skilled immigration is useful only for lazy and incompetent businessmen reluctant to pay their workers decently and/ or robotize their production system.

    Btw do we know how many intelligent russians left Russia over the last 30 years ( since the fall of the soviet union )? According to some US liberals the brain drain is massive and the Sillicon Valley is litterally flooded with Russians or ex-Soviet countries.

  59. Mr. Hack says:
    @Korenchkin

    Baloney!

    Brezhnev was an ethnic Russian, born and bred in Dnepropetrovsk Ukraine. You k now, one of the 8,300,000 cited in comment #5. If he were a Ukrainian, I’d try and sever any ties with him too! 🙂

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
  60. Mr. Hack says:
    @songbird

    How many young Russians and others have been put out of the “mating market” because of Putler’s support of and authorship of the Donbas war? Old Putler was a loyal henchman of Brezhnev’s during the cold war, wasn’t he? He only broke his oath of allegiance to the KGB when the opportunity arose and he figured out that he could profit from the whole affair. I’ve never really heard him spew angst against the former Soviet Union, have you?

    • Troll: Belarusian dude
    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Felix Keverich
  61. anon_382 says:

    Immigrants are Russia’s best hope to replenish a 75-million-strong workforce that’s shrinking by 800,000 people a year.

    reporters now offering free advice

  62. @Anatoly Karlin

    Don’t you know nuttin?

    Appearance is everything.

  63. songbird says:
    @Mr. Hack

    How many young Russians and others have been put out of the “mating market” because of Putler’s support of and authorship of the Donbas war?

    It is certainly comparable, if you add up both sides. In fact, battlefield medicine is vastly superior now, (thanks partly to urban blacks in America) so fatalities probably paint a misleading picture. Likely, there are more survivors with worse injuries in Donbass.

    I would say that Donbass was almost certainly more destructive for Slavs than Afghanistan, if you add up collateral damage.

    I’m not sure what Putin’s thoughts are about the Soviet Union, but I think it kind of alarming that he is seeking some kind of economic union with the central Asian republics. Economic unions always seem to erode sovereignty and nationalism.

  64. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    magine he is competent

    His competence is for hiding incompetence of people more powerful than him.

    I think I remember that his main promotion was after an earthquake in Sakhalin where all buildings collapsed and majority of the people of the city wwere killed.

    He was a government worker who is “organizing” a government response for this earthquake.

    I watched some interview with him from then and he was talking too positively about how successful the rescue operation is (when the majority of all the people living in the city are killed as a result of incompetence in the construction of the city).

  65. Dmitry says:
    @Europe Europa

    This Soros employee is not a reliable source for an exact phrase of Putin, as it is probably her interpretation of some long and complication discussion. But a meaning of what Putin said in the discussion is clear, as he says it so many times in public. (And he always repeats any one of his opinions many times in a repetitive way).

    Putin always talks about repatriation of Russians – which are living in so many places (countries like Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, etc) – i.e. he wants the Russian (Slavic) people of these countries – as like the millions of people in Ukraine and Belarus, or so many Russians in Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania.

    His idea is to improve the demographics by returning millions of Russians to Russia lost by the USSR. He’s not saying that he wants or expects random Poles and Czechs and Balkan nationalities to populate Russia.

    It’s quite “zero-sum” though, as Russian demographics in nearby countries are a lot worse than in Russia Federation itself,as they are minority groups in some countries. So how many young people can immigrate from Kazakhstan, before it collapses the long-term demographic situation of the Russian population of Kazakhstan.

    • Replies: @216
  66. 216 says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    SWPL will have truly arrived in Moscow when a Five Guys opens.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  67. 216 says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Perhaps the proximate cause of the sui generis Israeli demographics is that Israeli Jews know that without more births, Israel can’t continue to exist. Mind over matter, and while I’m hesitatnt to say it: a faint indicator that the power of faith can move mountains.

    Right over the border wall, Israelis can see existential doom, if they didn’t encounter it already in the army. There’s nothing like this for other First World denizens. Out of sight, out of mind. Detroit is trashed, move to the suburbs.

    Unless this mindset percolates down, fertility can’t manage to go far above 2.1; speculations about “breeders” aside.

    The New Muscovites

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  68. Mr. Hack says:
    @216

    Although there are several in Arizona, I’ve yet to eat at one. A brand new Five and Diner opened up recently nearby, and the menus of both look almost identical?…

    I hope that Karlin goes back to McDonalds to satisfy his sweet tooth. 🙂

  69. @Dmitry

    Uzbeks have to register for working permits.
    The reason? – because the Uzbeks rejected Russia’s negotiations to join an Eurasian Economic Union. Russia’s government has always wanted Uzbekistan to join, while Uzbekistan is still resisting (Uzbek authorities don’t want to lose more workers). It’s the opposite of the supposed position of Turkey and the EU.

    This is fascinating and completely demolishes the central premise of the blogpost. Namely that the reason why not more of them are settling permanently in Russia is largely because of domestic Uzbeki reasons than some imagined russian nationalism.

    Someone brought up the question of how loosening the migration regulations re: Kazakhstan will magically differentiate between russians and the non-russian supermajority of that country. This question still has not been adequatedly answered. All we got are loose quotes and hearsay from some 2013 dinner of which there is no public record.

    As for Russian speakers; emigration from Belarus to the EU was 123K in 2018. Ten years earlier, it was less than 1/20th that. The fact that as many Belarussians are now leaving for the EU as Ukraininans in per capita terms is an underappreciated finding. I don’t see this train stopping any time soon.

    If ‘russophobia’ exists, then russians should be grateful it does. If visa regulations for russians would get much more liberal and then you’d see a flood like no tomorrow – as the Levada poll that showed a record amount of young russians (>50%) wanting to flee the country. I doubt it would ever get to the same amounts in per capita like in Belarus or Ukraine, but there’s definitely potential for a 5X increase at the very least from the current ~75K russians emigrating to the EU per annum.

    Obsessing about nationality is an irrelevant concern, however. A more pressing problem for Russia is high-skill migration. Russia has very low wages and even if Putin deserves credit for having tried to increase funding for higher ed, that differential will not go away. Another aspect is lanugage. We get a lot of foreign academics in Stockholm, in part because we have pragmatically understood that insisting on Swedish upfront when there are only 10-12m native Swedish speakers in this world is folly. Some do learn Swedish but only after staying 3+ years in my experience and there is no major social pressure early on. We cannot compete with the US on wages though we can with the UK, Canada and to some extent Australia. But English is the lingua franca. That is an incontrovertible fact. Anyone wanting to lure foreign talent has to accept that fact and work with it, rather than against it. Can Russia do that, even generously assuming it was able to be competitive on wages?

    Russia has very low English proficiency as per the EP index. Academic settings may have better English but people need to get by on the language even outside the university. Can they do that in Russia? Forcing people to learn Russian from the getgo is not an upfront sacrifice many talented people will do if they can just immigrate to a English-speaking country instead. Or, for that matter, a non-English speaking country which is relaxed on the use of English (NL, Swe, DE etc). The Russian-speaking talent outside of Russia is unlikely flocking to Russia in such large numbers as Putin wishes but rather to the EU/US/AU/CA/UK at any rate.

  70. @Mr. Hack

    How many young Russians and others have been put out of the “mating market” because of Putler’s support of and authorship of the Donbas war?

    So long as it’s mostly young men getting mauled it makes little difference to birthrates and national demographics (women decide how many kids will be born). The country has geopolitical interests that need to be protected, it’s not an animal farm.

  71. neutral says:
    @Blinky Bill

    None of those from Israel are obviously Russian, the ones from Germany are I am guessing mostly of Aryan stock that once settled in Russia, and as for the US there are no doubt too many jews in that group.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
  72. melanf says:
    @Svevlad

    What exactly constitutes Slavic appearance, though? If it’s just nice way for them to say “white” then nice,

    There is no Slavic appearance, since even the Russian people consists of different genetic clusters. In this context, “Slavic appearance” means ” white people of European origin”

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  73. melanf says:
    @Europe Europa

    I think “Slavic appearance” means “Slavs only”. If he meant white in general wouldn’t he have said “European appearance”?

    In this case, ephemeris for “white people”. In Russia, it is quite common to advertise “Rent an apartment to a Russian / Slavic family”. In this case, “Russian / Slavic” includes Russian Germans, Finns, Latvians, etc.

  74. @Thulean Friend

    This encourage the smart immigrants strategy is unlikely to work for a country with a per capita income of around $10 K which uses a difficult language practically no one outside the FSU speaks.

    What is more the Russian economy is presently unable to fully use it’s own superb human capital.

    I noticed the blue collar ethnic Russian staff (of which there are proportonally a lot more than in western countries) at Russian establishments 4 star hotels,resturants etc are consistently much more capable than their counterparts in western countries.

    While this was great to experience as a tourist, it means a lot of reasonably well educated Russisns are unable to find jobs other than those reserved for high school dropouts in richer western countries.

  75. neutral says:
    @Aidan Q

    I was following the womens world chess championship, Goryachkina has some mystery meat blood, is she supposed to ethnically Russian?

    • Troll: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @melanf
    , @Blinky Bill
  76. Off-topic, but someone on reddit created mathematical model for coronavirus epidemic. It seems to fit the data very well:

    [OC] Quadratic Coronavirus Epidemic Growth Model seems like the best fit from dataisbeautiful

  77. @Svevlad

    Balkaner Slavs would in Ru/By/Ua generally be considered gypsies or Caucasians. I remember really bad case here some long time back when hrvats got accosted because they were too dark

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
  78. @Europe Europa

    Slav is just dog whistle for white. Finno Ughric meme ethnicities, Balts, etc. all count as Slavs

  79. melanf says:
    @neutral

    Goryachkina from Orenburg, most of her ancestors were partially Bashkirs or Siberian Tatars. But her appearance is not typical at all

  80. @neutral

    Goryachkina has some mystery meat blood

    Can’t you show some basic respect to a young lady who just happens to be a Russian Grandmaster and World Champion. See has made Mother Russia proud regardless of her ethnicity “pure” or otherwise.

    • Agree: Korenchkin
    • Replies: @neutral
    , @songbird
  81. neutral says:
    @Vishnugupta

    There is also the fact that you will end up with lots of Indian and Chinese, whether you they smart does not matter because it will just turn the land non white in the end.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
  82. neutral says:
    @Blinky Bill

    Fuck off concern troll. Go hang out at huff post or fox news if you want to act the schoolmarm.

    • Troll: neutral
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  83. @Vishnugupta

    I noticed the blue collar ethnic Russian staff (of which there are proportonally a lot more than in western countries) at Russian establishments 4 star hotels,resturants etc are consistently much more capable than their counterparts in western countries.

    While this was great to experience as a tourist, it means a lot of reasonably well educated Russisns are unable to find jobs other than those reserved for high school dropouts in richer western countries.

    1) Russia has a very high share of university-educated workers, and I doubt many blue-collar workers have university degrees.

    2) . We don’t have many Russians in Sweden, but we do have a lot of Slavs from the EU & Balkans in the construction/blue-collar industries.The common sentiment is if you want something done fast and cheap, hire a slav. Want to get it done properly but more expensively, hire a Swede. Of course, there are sloppy Swedes and perfectionist Slavs, but these are the stereotypes. My experience confirms them. I doubt Russians are qualitatively different from the ones we have.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    , @AP
  84. @neutral

    The internet is fabulous.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
  85. It would be good to grant Snowden and spouse citizenship, without renouncing that of the native land he gave everything up for, and to which he can never return to as a free man.

  86. @Mr. Hack

    I once heard a Ukrainian say Brezhnev is a Turk (because of the eyebrows), everyone wants to pin him to some other ethnicity
    He’s like an inverse Gogol

  87. @Thulean Friend

    You can’t say he isn’t honest

    • Replies: @neutral
  88. @Belarusian dude

    This varies highly due to varied appearances of South Slavs, which is due to the general mutt status of the region

    • Replies: @Belarusian Dude
  89. Znzn says:

    I know this is alternate history, but would Russia really be poorer if it did not expand much beyond the territory of the Kievan Rus? I mean Germany and Japan are manufacturing powerhouses despite having negligible mineral resources. And Without it taking the territory of non-white peoples, it will not have the moral obligation to make non-Europeans Russian.

  90. Znzn says:

    And China is a manufacturing powerhouse, it it will be even if it lost all of China west of Chengtu. Or had the same territory Ming China did in 1600.

  91. Znzn says:

    Purely for the sake of argument, I would argue that Russia would actually be a lot better of it adopted State Confucianism as its official state ideology, or at least it would not be worse off, and mass immigration of people from the cultural Sinosphere, say a million or so a year, would be very helpful in facilitating this. For the sake of argument, and as a thought experimebt, why would you want to preserve culture anyway, if a certain other culture is better than your existing culture, why not adopt that other culture instead that is better than yours, like what the Chinese did after 1911, or what the pagan Scandinavians did, or what the Nipponese did after the Meiji restoration. For the sake of argument, if there is no reason to preserve your race, then there is no reason to preserve your culture either if a better one can be found elsewhere.

    • Replies: @another anon
  92. neutral says:
    @Korenchkin

    He is the troll here. Unless you can openly state that this moron with his “show respect for the young lady” nonsense can be taken seriously.

  93. @Thulean Friend

    Perhaps St Petersberg and Moscow attract the best Russia has to offer but I was pleasantly surprised by a waiter in Spb explaining in detail the various places to get affordable ballet tickets,what to look for in Russian vodka (apparently the good local stuff comes from the Altai Mountain region and made from alpha grade spirit)…

    The staff at various upscale (but not full luxury) establishments seemed very cued in and sharp much more so than what I have experienced in Western Europe.

  94. Znzn says:
    @Svevlad

    Won’t a simple DNA test answer that?

  95. @neutral

    Well Chinese wages are around the same as Russia so there won’t be much movement there.

    Indians have large fairly successful communities in most Anglo countries.

    There is no reason an upper caste educated Indian who is looking at relocating abroad will choose Russia over say Canada,Australia (with their easy to game points based immigration system) or the US with its massive economy and host to the most high achieving Indian community in the planet.

    So what you are looking at outside the FSU is MENA and Africa but even these seem to be drawn more towards Western Europe.

    Funnily enough the number of Russian permanent residents in India (mostly in Goa) significantly outnumber Indian permanent residents in Russia and it is the Russian government that is lobbying for mutual Visa free access while India is not very keen on this.

    Russia has apparently still gone ahead and given Indians visa free access to it’s Far East..

    https://www.rbth.com/economics/2017/04/19/indian-citizens-to-get-visa-free-access-to-the-russian-far-east_746037

  96. @Znzn

    Purely for the sake of argument, I would argue that Russia would actually be a lot better of it adopted State Confucianism as its official state ideology

    Russia would be better if it adopted Tengrism as its state religion, declared itself descendant of the Mongol Empire and took back all rightful Mongol lands.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_shamanism

    Russian empire was fake and gay, Mongol empire was the real deal.

    https://www.quora.com/If-the-Mongol-Empire-stayed-united-to-this-day-how-would-the-world-look-like-by-now

    https://www.quora.com/What-if-the-Mongol-Empire-at-its-peak-reunited-today

    • Replies: @gT
  97. @Svevlad

    What exactly constitutes Slavic appearance, though?

    Typical Slavic face

    There is no need for any precise definition, this is not the Russian way.
    The traditional way is to assemble special commission of highly trained experts, who will personally examine every applicant and judge Slavicness of their faces case by case.
    Offering gifts and presents to the commission is matter of traditional politeness, they will not influence their professional decision in the slightest.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
  98. Gerad1234 says:
    @Blinky Bill

    Karlin is a pseudo-nationalist. It’s easy to get higher readership if he fakes this nationalist viewpoint ( try and engage, for once, constructive criticism instead of blocking it, Karlin)

    Note his mate, ” nationalist” Oleg Kashin, living in London ( LOL) defending on video some worthless traitor, terrorist–loving kavkaz journalist who was arrested recently. On the video were all the usual anti-Russian, fifth column suspects from Ekho, Novaya Gazeta, Meduza etc. demanding he gets released.

    AK: Kashin is not my mate. Also can you please fuck off from my blog already you retarded faggot. AP has proved you don’t even know Russian.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  99. AP says:
    @Thulean Friend

    The common sentiment is if you want something done fast and cheap, hire a slav. Want to get it done properly but more expensively, hire a Swede.

    Here in the northeastern USA, fast and cheap means Latino, good and cheap (though a little more) means Slav, usually Pole or Ukrainian off the boater. Americans are a mixed bag. Some high-end companies do good work, and are expensive. Unfortunately a lot of the less fancy American reno workers have heroin problems, I wouldn’t trust them in my house.

  100. Dmitry says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Nationalities like Uzbeks flooding to Russia to work is politically unpopular across all types of public – i.e. media which complain openly about this are usually liberal media.

    However, these unskilled gastarbaiters are a large proportion of labour of the construction industry, which at the top is often owned by the most connected people.

    In addition, this labour is part of a reason that things like to buy a new apartment – although in the middle of a field – is so cheap in Russia compared to any other developed country. Cheap labour supply contributed to reducing cost of living and improving standard of living at least in terms of housing supply.

    Finally, this type of gastarbaiter are quite mobile and they mainly want to generate income and buy a house in their fatherlands, where they have might have a large family to aid. So it seems they will not want to live in Russia permanently.

    So for Putin typical “balancing” on this issue, or “win win” solution, is achieved by the media. I.e. it’s not a topic the government media will have television reports about (either in support or opposed). So just ignore the topic in the media space.

    russophobia’ exists, then russians should be grateful it does. If visa regulations for russians would get much more liberal and then you’d see a flood

    The government can be grateful for it, partly for the reason you say. But for ordinary middle class, non-political people this rusophobia is quite bad, and even expensive.

    Russia has very low English proficiency as per the EP index. Academic settings may have better English

    The trend is changing with “Generation Z” – there are people who learned good English from the internet, or even online video games.

  101. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    Most likely, this discussion about immigrants she has with Putin would be related to Central Asian immigrants which where she works, not the situation in the Baltic states.

    So in the discussion Putin said he wants a return of Russians, Ukrainians, etc (Germans mostly apply for German passports), from these countries, and she was wondering “why discriminate Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Tajiks”.

    Her view of immigration is mainly focused in Uzbekistan in a human rights perspective, and politically she is campaigning about helping politically persecuted people from central Asian states.

  102. Mitleser says:
    @Znzn

    Medieval Russian territory is still colder and less hospitable than what Germans and Japans have.
    Post-Medieval Russian gains were for the most part not liabilities.

  103. Dmitry says:
    @216

    One of the explanations for how the secular population in Israel has above the replacement fertility rate, could be that it is somehow a reaction of fear of being surpassed in numbers, not only to Arabs/Muslims, but also the religious Jews. Secular people in Israel are often seeming more scared of religious Jews, as they are scared of Muslims.

    On the other hand, my intuitive explanation (from visiting personally multiple times and knowing people who live there for years) is that the larger amount of children, is more something related to the Middle Eastern subtropical atmosphere of Israel. In such Middle Eastern cultures, people are usually always outside in cafes in large groups and families, and middle-age people would feel socially isolated if you lived there without 2-3 children to sit on your table. Compared to in Northern countries, people are much more seeming always in larger groups.

    But then this Middle Eastern atmosphere doesn’t explain why some Middle Eastern countries like Lebanon have very low fertility rates. I haven’t been in Lebanon, but I imagine that it is a very similar atmosphere and culture to Israel, and the Eastern atmosphere of Lebanon cannot be less than in Israel. Yet the fertility rate in Lebanon is below the replacement level.

    • Replies: @216
  104. @Dmitry

    The reason – because the Armenian government accepted the offers to join the Eurasian Economic Union, which removed the need for work permits on entering Russia to work.

    The Kyrgyz said that he needs to renew his labor permit (or whatever) every year or two by leaving/reentering the country and resubmitting docs, though it only takes about a day and there’s a center that does that right on the Kazakh-Russian border.

    Kyrgyzia is within the EEU.

    Large numbers of Armenian citizenships probably accrue due to there being a large Armenian diaspora within Russia already. The majority of new Kyrgyz citizenships (which are given out at much lesser rates per capita) still accrue to Russians from Kyrgyzstan.

  105. @Thulean Friend

    It’s not necessarily the case that very large-scale foreign elite cognitive migration is an unalloyed good: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/limits-to-cognitive-elitism/

    However, those few who went to Russia anyway should above average commitment for the reasons you enumerate and should have their way in eased.

    It’s also unclear that English language knowledge is great either since its clear by now that it’s a vector for the GloboHomo virus. ~90% of non-Anglos have no great need to know it.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  106. melanf says:
    @Znzn

    I mean Germany and Japan are manufacturing powerhouses despite having negligible mineral resources.

    This is not true, Japan and Germany were in the middle ages centers of mining, and centers of export of metals

    The southern outskirts of Kievan Rus were warmer than the North (but much colder than Germany or Japan) but were doomed due to the proximity of nomadic tribes and the lack of access to the sea.

  107. songbird says:
    @Blinky Bill

    IMO, they both seem to have the proper qualifications, but would still need to be given a political test. And perhaps, be subject to more discriminating technical photographs on the beach.

    Of course, I would have to find out what the proper pronunciation of “Ju” is in Pinyin, and what its proper meaning and origin is.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
  108. Main issue is that 700-750 000 uzbeks were born each year for the last 10 years, with the Uzbek government only able to create 200k new jobs per year.

    The best solution for Uzbekistan is increased emigration to Russia. The solution works both ways because Russian government wants Uzbekistan to join the Eurasian economic Union- which will make emigration for uzbeks even easier than it is now.

    Same situation for all the central Asian states, except Kazakhstan

    • Replies: @216
  109. @songbird

    Can’t be too careful she might be from the People’s Republic of Judea.

    😂😂😂

    • LOL: songbird
  110. @Aidan Q

    Most of Russia is in Asia so it’s perfectly normal that many Russians should have an Asian appearance. Here’s another famous Asian Russian, Victor Tsoi, musician and actor:

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @anonymous coward
  111. melanf says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Most of Russia is in Asia so it’s perfectly normal that many Russians should have an Asian appearance.

    Where’s the connection? Living in Asia does not make a person “Asian”. Here are typical schoolchildren on the border with China

    Here’s another famous Asian Russian, Victor Tsoi, musician and actor:

    Viktor Tsoi was “россиянин”(i.e. a Russian citizen) but not “русский” (ethnic Russian), since he was Korean

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  112. @melanf

    melanf,

    OK, not ethnically, but many of those Asians have been living in the Russian empire for centuries. It’s not quite the same thing as immigrants in the west who, although also citizens, are a very recent phenomenon.

  113. 216 says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    One of the explanations for how the secular population in Israel has above the replacement fertility rate, could be that it is somehow a reaction of fear of being surpassed in numbers, not only to Arabs/Muslims, but also the religious Jews. Secular people in Israel are often seeming more scared of religious Jews, as they are scared of Muslims.

    Secular fertility is above replacement, but below “Religious” fertility by a child or two, and below Haredi fertility by about 5.

    The best thing that secular left-leaning Israelis could do for their cause is to get American Jews to move to Israel. That’s the hard part, as it means dropping from US household income of 140K (some exaggeration thanks to Bluestan living costs) to Israel average income of about half of that. On top of mandatory IDF service, foreign to a population that notoriously is underrepresented in the US military.

    But then this Middle Eastern atmosphere doesn’t explain why some Middle Eastern countries like Lebanon have very low fertility rates. I haven’t been in Lebanon, but I imagine that it is a very similar atmosphere and culture to Israel, and the Eastern atmosphere of Lebanon cannot be less than in Israel. Yet the fertility rate in Lebanon is below the replacement level.

    Is Taleb married with children?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  114. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    English language knowledge is great either since its clear by now that it’s a vector

    In relation to Russia, there is not much barrier from Western or European ideas and culture – it is more just a time delay as it translated, and then imported on a stupider level, than it was in the original language.

    A few strange countries like Japan are idiosyncratic enough sufficiently to have a barrier from the world, and can be productive independent civilizations, but in Russia everything is in European concepts, and built on Europe and imported ideas from Europe, and local cultural development benefits and progresses on cultural interchange with Europe, an.

    Knowledge of other European languages, also creates a more critical people, who know the source of their ideas. Otherwise you will still have those ideas, but just lose the knowledge of their original context, and the accompanying criticisms of those ideas.

    As for importing cultural elevation or degradation, this depends on the taste and cultural level of the people, and that can be easily influenced by education of children. For example, in children who have studied musical instruments, and perhaps equally important for children is to learn music theory, then as adults they will be much more likely to love Jazz music or Beethoven’s late string quartets. Whereas children without musical education, they are more likely to fall in love with pop and rock music.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @216
  115. 216 says: • Website
    @Ms Karlin-Gerard

    The geopolitical angle is also going to be relevant. Declining Chinese working age population, and increased Chinese investment in Central Asia. Many Central Asians in 2030 might be working in China.

    Sailer has written about the cross-border ties of the Bush family, and how Mexican immigration to the US was used as a way of opening Mexico to neoliberalism.

    I suspect the same wrt India, though less has been written about it. Both India and Mexico were historically rather protectionist and vaugely “Third Position” internationally.

  116. 216 says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Knowledge of other European languages, also creates a more critical people, who know the source of their ideas. Otherwise you will still have those ideas, but just lose the knowledge of their original context, and the accompanying criticisms of those ideas.

    The US is notoriously bad at additional languages, to the extent that many Hispanic politicians like Castro of San Antonio weren’t Spanish spakers. Otoh, I’m unsure of what political/philosophical theory other than Integralism was predominantly based in Spanish in the last 100 years.

    When it comes to French, there’s probably more to it. Lots of bad ideas have come out of France, and the Anglo conservative response to them has often been rather slapstick. Even Anglo Canadians, who must learn French in school, seem to be unable to steer the conversation in Quebec by speaking to the Quebecois in their own language. The infamous Faith Goldy has never bothered to produce French language content.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Dmitry
  117. Dmitry says:
    @216

    In Israel, Jewish fertility was matching Arab fertility for the first time in history.

    However, if you look in the graph the only interesting thing is the Jewish stays relatively constant, while the Arab fertility falls, from previously one of the world’s highest levels.

    So there is not much change in the Jewish side, but rather on the Arab one.

    best thing that secular left-leaning Israelis could do for their cause is to get American Jews to move to Israel.

    Is this because the Middle Eastern atmosphere could increase their fertility rate. So maybe it would rescue their demographics, which will otherwise collapse in America?
    It’s perhaps true, in a small way, although still below a replacement level.

    Jews in Russia have a cohort fertility rate of below 1,4 since 1919.
    https://www.bjpa.org/content/upload/bjpa/c__c/Tolts_EPC%20Milan,%2019951.pdf
    So Jews are probably the lowest fertility nationality of the USSR.

    In Israel, Russian-speakers still have the lowest fertility, but they converged upwards to an extent as some kind of cultural adaptation.

    “By 2001 their TFR was 1.56; that is, at the same level as that of Jews in the Soviet Union in 1988- 1989.33 In 1999-2005 the TFR among (post-) Soviet immigrants registered as Jews was rather steady at 1.7-1.8; that is, it was double the post-Soviet level of Jewish fertility in the FSU and approached the TFR level of Israeli non-religious veteran Jews (2.0-2.2) which was noted above. At the same time, according to our estimate,this indicator for (post-) Soviet immigrants registered as non-Jews in 2002-2005 was also steady and as low as approximately 1.2-1.3; thus, it was similar to the low level of post-Soviet Slavic populations in their home countries.”

    https://www.bjpa.org/content/upload/bjpa/c__c/Tolts%20Harvard%202011%20paper_22-11-20111.pdf

    I think another reason could be that aside from the similar shopping malls, Israel is small and boring compared to America – it’s not completely implausible you would sit down with you girlfriend and have more children, because there is nothing else to do.

    There are not exciting distractions like New York and Miami, and neither as exciting career opportunities.

    Then, many cities – like this suddenly constructed Haredi city called Harish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xu0E6zf3Vk. – only have raison d’être as somewhere for large family and children.

    After living there a few weeks, you would want to have children, so you do not kill yourself from being completely bored when the city closes completely every Friday.

    • Replies: @216
    , @Ms Karlin-Gerard
  118. 216 says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Is this because the Middle Eastern atmosphere could increase their fertility rate. So maybe it would rescue their demographics, which will otherwise collapse in America?
    It’s perhaps true, in a small way, although still below a replacement level.

    That wasn’t my thinking, but you aren’t wrong here.

    My thinking was that if aliyah from the US increases, it will rebuild the electoral power of the left in Israel. American emigres might be more dedicated to make a peace deal with the Palestinians, possibly if the emigration was high enough they could make an outright annexation, but under very generous terms where the state becomes “binational”.

    I think it is plausible that Jewish fertilty from these theoretical emigres would increase, not only to the reasons you suggest, but also because Jews would feel more comfortable in a Jewish society where Christian evangelism is negligible. In my admittedly perjorative opinion, Jewish thought in this country is neurotic over the threat of assimilation and routinely fear mongers over Christians that have shown incredible kindness for the overwhelming majority of our history.

    I think another reason could be that aside from the similar shopping malls, Israel is small and boring compared to America – it’s not completely implausible you would sit down with you girlfriend and have more children, because there is nothing else to do.
    There are not exciting distractions like New York and Miami, and neither as exciting career opportunities.

    One other aspect of an American secular-shifted Israel might be that a post-deal Israel joins the Arab League. Many Jews have a parent or grandparent that lived in the Arab countries, and might like to visit or even expat for a time. An Arab gay subculture would also develop in Tel Aviv.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  119. @Korenchkin

    Not really. Even the supposedly super white half Austrian Slovenia’s people usually get stereotyped as gypsies and/or Caucasians here

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
  120. AP says:
    @216

    Even Anglo Canadians, who must learn French in school, seem to be unable to steer the conversation in Quebec by speaking to the Quebecois in their own language. The infamous Faith Goldy has never bothered to produce French language content.

    She isn’t an Anglo but a half-Greek, half-Ukrainian, Ukrainian Greek Catholic.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20181005203319/https://www.catholicregister.org/ysn/ysn-news/item/20069-catching-up-with-youth-speak-news-alumni

    Television reporter Faith Goldy is one whose YSN years (2008-09) blossomed into a journalism career.

    “I wanted to marry Superman when I grew up, so I had to become Lois Lane,” jokes Goldy.

    A deacon from her Ukrainian Catholic parish orchestrated Goldy’s application to YSN.

    • Replies: @216
  121. @Vishnugupta

    Fair point about Russia, it seems, you and AK would know better than I.

    As for my home country, though, there is a very large and seemingly growing number of college graduates in the USA who work in relatively low-paid jobs (retail, restaurants, hotels) that didn’t even require a college degree and often don’t lead anywhere better.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
  122. 216 says: • Website
    @AP

    The usual tripartite description of Canada was “Anglo” “French” and “First Nations”. Those that immigrated were notionally expected to integrate into one of the two first identities, while the latter is permitted to be ethnically exclusive.

    I’ve never heard of her being fluent in either Greek or Ukrainian. Few of us would be disappointed if she repatriated with her husband to Ukraine.

  123. Znzn says:

    I remember back before WW1 there was a saying that Asia begins east of the Brandenburg gate.

  124. Znzn says:

    By the way if I am a Korean or Chinese living in Russia, why would I want to lose my culture my assimilating into the mainstream and losing my cultural life?

    • Replies: @Belarusian Dude
    , @melanf
  125. @Znzn

    Outside of a few exceptions nobody every wants to lose ethnocultural identity, it judt happens. If youre surrounded by Russians, made to attend Russian schools, etc. You inevitably assimilate. Same thing happens to immigrants across the entire world.

    • Replies: @Znzn
    , @Znzn
  126. @RadicalCenter

    I believe the problem is mostly confined to useless liberal arts degrees not STEM graduates.

    I think there should be a significant reduction of non STEM courses available.How many liberal arts graduates does a country really need?

    I think the Germans have got it about right universities mostly for the best and brightest and good apprentice opportunities and trade schools leading to high paying relatively secure blue collar jobs for everyone else.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Thulean Friend
  127. Znzn says:
    @Belarusian Dude

    I remember polonization and russification,l going over quite well in Finland and Poland .

    • Replies: @Belarusian Dude
  128. Znzn says:
    @Belarusian Dude

    Which is why you have Chinese schools in South East Asia up to the college level.

  129. melanf says:
    @Znzn

    By the way if I am a Korean or Chinese living in Russia, why would I want to lose my culture my assimilating into the mainstream and losing my cultural life?

    Chinese are almost absent in Russia, but Russian Koreans have been strongly Russified for 100 years – their native language is Russian (this also applies to Koreans living in Central Asia)

    • Replies: @Znzn
  130. gT says:
    @another anon

    Good idea. Though I stand to be corrected, the Germanic Westerners in Europe all come from the East, they fled some turbulence in the East, the same turbulence that made the Chinese build all those walls of theirs. The Germanic languages which are all Indo-European are indicative of this.

    And once the Germanics were in Europe, the next place they fled to was the UK, and then to the USA. Now they can’t flee elsewhere anymore. But some never fled anywhere, they stayed exactly where they were, and just absorbed some of the best of their neighbours, from both the vicious Rus Vikings and the murderous Mongols.

    So the Russians are good enough as they are, no need to envy those Westerners who perpetually run away, even now Russia can control her borders while those chicken shits in Europe can’t control nothing in their own countries. Russians must take pride in and build on their heritage, they are survivors who stand their ground.

  131. Znzn says:
    @melanf

    I was thinking of the Chinese in Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines.

  132. @Commentator Mike

    Asia

    No such thing, at least geographically. There is only one continent, Eurasia, and there are no natural boundaries as you go east or west. (Which is why the Mongols raided anywhere from Beijing to Vienna and didn’t give a damn.)

    If anything, it’s India which should be considered a separate continent, not the mythical ‘Asia’.

  133. Znzn says:

    If I were a white and slavic nationalist, I wonder if it would be a good trade to go back to the territory of the Kievan Rus or European Russia if I could get a rump Russia that is 99.9 percent genetically white, the Caucasians, Finns, Tartars, and the Komi would then be assessed on an individual to individual basis, along with the people who look to Mesopotamiaish and Persian Gulfish and Arabian Peninsulaish to he considered European. And for the ones who look like Mr. Shoigu, I heard that the Stanovoy Range, the Kamchatka, and the Altay Mountains can give Switzerland a run for its money in the spring and summer as a resort area. Plus they get the whole Siberian treasure trove from which they can get fair royalties from resource extraction.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @Znzn
  134. @Znzn

    Let’s just give away the clay our ancestors fought and died to conquer because we’re afraid of some dumb African nogs.

    Brilliant plan, Sherlock.

  135. Znzn says:
    @Znzn

    Well if you want a purely white/European or 99.9 percent White Russia stretching from Uelen to Smolensk you are going to have to expel to Mongolia or China or obliterate all who those are racially unsuitable, would you prefer that plan instead? I think someone pointed out that Russia and China in its present form is basically a multiracial empire instead of a normal nation state like Denmark.

  136. Znzn says:

    Because someone suggested that those who are one half of one fourth Korean or a fourth Jewish should be considered Russian, and say that is unacceptable because only those of overwhelmingly European ancestry should be considered Russian, then what do you do with those who are genetically unsuitable? If you have a Russia that only composes all the land to the west of the Urals, then those who are not genetically suitable can be liquidated or expelled to the east of the Urals, if you want a Russian that encompasses its present territory, then all the Evenks, Tuvans, Tartars with too much Asian blood in them, Yakuts, and Buryats will either have to be expelled to Mongolia and China and given 1000 dollars each as a going away stipend, or be obliterated.

  137. Mitleser says:
    @Vishnugupta

    15% or less?

    Another thing the Ethiopians are doing is at least trying in education. They have now achieved full primary school enrollment; that is, very nearly all school-aged children really are attending school. This is a major achievement for a Third World country, and one as poor as Ethiopia. They have also created about a dozen universities, and are busy churning out engineers and agronomers. I mean, really: the government has a cap of about 15% on how much social science (that includes law) degrees the universities can grant. They have the priorities in the right place.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/ethiopia/

    • Agree: Vishnugupta
  138. Znzn says:

    Well to be frank the Tartars are not even supposed to be in Russia in the first place, they are basically the descendants of Asiatic Invaders from the Middle Ages, like the Rohingya in Burma. And should have been expelled to Mongolia a long time ago. In fact the Evenks, Tuvans, and Buryats have more of a right to be in Russia than the Tartars because at least they are from here.

    • Replies: @melanf
  139. melanf says:
    @Znzn

    Well to be frank the Tartars are not even supposed to be in Russia in the first place, they are basically the descendants of Asiatic Invaders from the Middle Ages,

    Tatars is a collective name for 6 or 7 different ethnic groups. If we keep in mind the Kazan Tatars (the most numerous people among the Tatars), this is the origin of the autochthonous population of Eastern Europe (with a small admixture of nomads from Asia). In terms of culture, they are also a European people.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  140. @Znzn

    Difference is that Koreans came to Russia, instead of Russians to Korea. Very different situations

  141. @Korenchkin

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ southern Europeans really overestimate how “white” they seem

    • Replies: @Belarusian Dude
  142. Dmitry says:
    @216

    rebuild the electoral power of the left

    Normal people immigrate from a poorer country to a richer country. Normal person travel from the less developed country, to the more developed country. Not the other direction.

    In modern immigration – income is like an inverse of topographical gradient or slope, and immigrants behave on average like water in relation to it.

    America is one of the richest countries in the world, so why would a person leave their native home, to emigrate to a poorer country?

    It’s usually something romantic, ideology or business.

    Further, Israel has depressing politics, is a small island surrounded by Arab countries, full of Muslims inside the country, internal conflict, regular wars, daily terrorist attacks, etc.

    It’s not a place where most leftwing people would immigrate for ideological reasons.

    In my opinion, most American Jews which immigrate to Israel, are either very rich American youth which are in Israel to manage their parents’ apartments or property investment – because Israel taxes to foreign owners of property, if they do not live there. Those rich American girls you see in Israel, that sit in a cafe all day with a small dog, are probably not interested in leftwing politics, and their parents must be happy with Republican tax plans.

    Or alternatively, American Jews in Israel usually are politically rightwing, weird religious people and also more dark brown Jews of America, which had experienced racism from anglosaxons.

    In terms of numbers, “ideological immigration” is quite a marginal phenomenon.

    When they interview these marginal numbers of American immigrants about their motive for immigration – it is often a more rightwing nationalist motivation.
    https://youtu.be/iPZDU-EW_fk?t=230.

    Those young people they interview are perhaps analogous to a Jewish version of our host Anatoly Karlin. If you know his biography – he was from San Francisco, and immigrated to Moscow for an allegedly ideological reasons (although really he immigrated to Moscow, instead of Russia – so it’s not really a downfall in living standards, and so he might be less ideological than Americans Jew in that interview which went from New York to an army base in Israel).

    • Replies: @216
  143. Dmitry says:
    @216

    Yes, America has imported (and therefore re-exported or amplified to every country) a lot of ideology from France and Germany. For example, it is common to use Hegelian words like “Zeitgeist”, or translation of Nietzsche inspired construction like “Lifestyle” (Lebensstil) .

    There is even sometimes a little piece from Russia – e.g. illiterate people in Steve Sailor’s forum that say “I am an accelerationist”, without knowing this is Marxism-Leninism, summarized famous phrase of Lenin’s loved author Chernyshevsky.

  144. 216 says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Normal people immigrate from a poorer country to a richer country. Normal person travel from the less developed country, to the more developed country. Not the other direction.
    In modern immigration – income is like an inverse of topographical gradient or slope, and immigrants behave on average like water in relation to it.

    Within the US, there is considerable migration out of high cost Bluestan, and also gentrification of depressed urban areas.

    “First-to-Third” migrants also exist, but we know them as “expats”. Many are unmarried men that only expat for a time, or marry a local woman. For the few who are “location independent”, its a way of hiking living standards by reducing costs.

    also more dark brown Jews of America, which had experienced racism from anglosaxons.

    I’ve never heard of US whites discriminating against Sepharidic Jews or Ethiopian Jews. The Jewish press would love to crow about “Jews of color” being victims, instead they have to rely on Hispanic figures with fringe Sephardic ancestry.

    America is one of the richest countries in the world, so why would a person leave their native home, to emigrate to a poorer country?

    Not that long ago, there was a post here about how Americans have a stated emigration preference higher than ever before. It was a chuckling response to the reucrrent posts about how Russians are despearate to leave.

    Now, its not a revealed preference, but it is something. A lot of Bluestani would like to move to Canada, UK, AUS or NZ. But Jewish Bluestani have the legal power to move to their ethnicstate and actually receive subsidy.

    If Trump wins again, with a GOP congress, and somehow it is re-elected in the midterms, emigration is one logical response along with separatism.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  145. @Belarusian Dude

    Just to clarify, I know the whole Serbs/Bulgarians/Greeks are 50% Turk is an old inaccurate meme. But southern Europeans are just naturally very dark

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
  146. @Vishnugupta

    Funnily enough the number of Russian permanent residents in India (mostly in Goa) significantly outnumber Indian permanent residents in Russia and it is the Russian government that is lobbying for mutual Visa free access while India is not very keen on this.

    I’ve heard from several Indians that a lot of Russians are involved in the drug trade in Goa, which may account for the Indian authorities’ reluctance. Not sending their best!

    There is no reason an upper caste educated Indian who is looking at relocating abroad will choose Russia over say Canada,Australia (with their easy to game points based immigration system) or the US with its massive economy and host to the most high achieving Indian community in the planet.
    So what you are looking at outside the FSU is MENA and Africa but even these seem to be drawn more towards Western Europe.

    The Gulf countries constitute a large destination for blue-collar wage earners in India, though the Gulf is now stagnant due to the fact that the oil is in a structural bear market phase.

    Now that Chinese migrants are castigated as spies, particularly as students, it is likely that Indians will take up much of their slack. I’ve noted that Indian migration to continental Europe has really increased dramatically over the past decade. I expect this to continue, not just highly skilled migrants but even middle-to-lower class workers. India has a large employment problem domestically and it could easily offload tens of millions of workers abroad without any major problem. Indian workers also tend to be preferred over MENA or African workers.

  147. @Vishnugupta

    I think there should be a significant reduction of non STEM courses available. How many liberal arts graduates does a country really need?

    Is the Indian situation any better? A lot of Indian kids are peer-pressured by their parents into STEM (especially engineering) even if they don’t want it. So many of them end up as unhappy, underemployed and often very mediocre engineers if they get any jobs at all. There’s been a massive growth of engineering colleges, many of them barely-transparent scams, over the last 10-15 years in India catering to these Indian parents who push their kids into careers they may not want but feel obliged to “choose” because Indian parents often bulldoze their kids.

    As a result, youth unemployment in India is highest among those with bachelor degrees or more. I’m personally agnostic as to how many university graduates is “appropriate” in a society, but the anti-intellectual attacks on liberal arts so common on the right is fairly low IQ. It also demonstrates why the right-wing keeps losing the culture wars.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  148. @Dmitry

    Isn’t it more a case of:

    1. Militarism of society plus the religious/historical narrative making people wanting to have many children in order to ensure their country has a large enough army to defend itself for generations… in conjunction with all usual reasons

    2 Jewish culture completely different to others in the same situation.. which would place a higher premium on giving birth to males- Jews place a higher importance on females than other cultures = more children

    3. Knowing your child has a definite chance of military service and a strong chance of being in combat must make them want to have more children as sort of insurance- particular possible in a wealthy state

  149. @Vishnugupta

    Funnily enough the number of Russian permanent residents in India (mostly in Goa) significantly outnumber Indian permanent residents in Russia and it is the Russian government that is lobbying for mutual Visa free access while India is not very keen on this.

    AKA, downshifters – people who work from their laptops and live on the rent from their Moscow apartments. Goa has a nice climate and tons of other expats. Similar story in Phuket.

    Not much point to Indians going to Russia at this point in time.

  150. Dmitry says:
    @216

    heard of US whites discriminating against Sepharidic Jews or Ethiopian Jews. The Jewish

    Well, just my inference or perhaps incorrect speculation for one possible motivation, that on average the brown Jew will have more racism from the anglosaxons in America, which could result in more motivation to immigrate to Israel, where people are brown. On the other hand, for a smaller proportion of Jews which look like anglosaxons, then probably the racism is not noticeable, and that motivation would be less likely.

    I think American Jews which immigrate to Israel seem more to be more brown average – but this is not based on survey.

    Either way, the main motivation will be either an ideological or religious (or romantic or business) one for such an eccentric immigration of people from richer countries to poorer countries.

    there is considerable migration out of high cost Bluestan, and also gentrification of depressed urban areas.

    Gentrification is different though, as it doesn’t imply reduction of your income and your access to first world services.

    If an English hipster, immigrates from bourgeois West London to gentrify East London, then their income will not be reduced (while cost for renting the apartment falls), and they still have the same high quality services, healthcare, etc.

    “First-to-Third” migrants also exist, but we know them as “expats”. Many are unmarried men that only expat for a time, or marry a local woman.

    It could be quite rational, but the numbers are not very significant, especially for the productive or working part of the population. For a pensioner, it could be a more often good idea (until you need to access the ambulance and hospitals).

    Americans have a stated emigration preference higher than ever before. It was a chuckling response to the reucrrent posts about how Russians are despearate to leave.

    Student loans and healthcare costs are a problem in America, but on the other hand there are not so many countries with comparable incomes to America. Overall, when there is an opening in the borders, immigration flow follows the direction to higher incomes.

    Mexican citizens flood into USA, but American citizens do not flood into Mexico.

    Poland and UK have an open border regime for almost 20 years (until Brexit). As a result, 1 million Polish citizens live in the UK. On the other hand, there are only 5000 British citizens which live in Poland.

    If Russian citizens had an easy option to emigrate to Western Europe, then Western Europe would be flooded with millions Russian citizens tomorrow. This is because of the difference of average incomes is really significant (more than between UK and Poland).

    A lot of Bluestani would like to move to Canada, UK, AUS or NZ. But Jewish Bluestani have the legal power to move to their ethnicstate and actually receive subsidy.

    If you look at current immigration numbers for Israel, America is not so significant.

    “In 2019, 46,6% of the total number of new citizens arrived in Israel from Russia. This is followed by Ukraine – 18,8%, the USA – 7,7%, France – 6,9%.”

    Most immigrants just seem to follow the country with higher income,as expected. Moreover, I assume most of the American immigrants will be religious or nationalist Jews.

    To the extent there exist something like “liberal ideological emigration” from America – which countries would they want to go to? Surely Western European countries like France or London are the most popular. Celebrities like Johnny Depp emigrated to France. George Clooney lives in Italy. I read Quentin Tarantino has immigrated to Israel though.

    • Replies: @216
  151. Znzn says:

    Genetics Edit
    Comparison of the proportions of Caucasoid and Mongoloid characteristics in the gene pools of ethnic groups in the Volga-Ural region revealed a heterogenous pattern. Data on the proportions of major racial components in the nuclear genome indicated that the Mongoloid characters were most prevalent in Bashkirs, Maris, Volga Tatars, and Chuvashes, while the Caucasoid component was maximum in Mordovians, Komis, and Udmurts. Data on restriction-deletion polymorphism of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) also indicated an increased Caucasoid contribution to Mordovian, Udmurt, and Komi gene pools and an increased Mongoloid component in Chuvashes and Volga Tatars. In general, the results obtained agree with ethnic anthropological data indicating the greatest Caucasoid contribution to the Mordovian and Komi gene pools and an increased Mongoloid component in Turkic populations of the Volga-Ural region (Volga Tatars, Bashkirs and Chuvashes).[46]

    Y-DNA Edit
    Haplogroups of 450 Tatars, summarized from the studies Rootsi 2007, Tambets 2004, Balanovsky in prep., Wells 2001[47]

    N1c2: 21,0%
    R1a: 19,0%
    I1: 13,2%
    N1c1: 13,0%
    J2: 8,1%
    R1b1b2: 6,0%
    E1b1a: 4,0%
    O: 3,0%
    I2a1: 2,8%
    C: 2,7%
    I2a2: 1,8%
    G: 1,0%
    J1: 1,0%
    L: 1,0%
    Q: 1,0%
    T: 1,0%
    Haplogroups in Volga Tatars(122 samples):[48]

    C2: 2%
    E: 4% (V13: 3%)
    G2a: 2%
    I1: 6%
    I2a1: 5%
    I2a2: 2%
    J2a: 7%
    J2b: 2%
    L1: 2%
    N1c2: 9%
    N1c1: 16%
    O3: 2%
    Q1: 2%
    R1a: 33% (Z282: 19%, Z93: 14%)
    Haplogroups in Crimean Tatars(22 samples):[49]

    R-M17: 32%
    R-M173: 9%
    O-M175: 5%
    O-M122: 5%
    J-M172: 14%
    I-M170: 5%
    F-M89: 18%
    C-M130: 9%
    E-M96: 5%
    mtDNA Edit
    According to Mylyarchuk et al.:
    It was found that mtDNA of the Volga Tatars consists of two parts, but western Eurasian component prevails considerably (84% on average) over eastern Asian one (16%).

    among 197 Kazan Tatars and Mishars.[50]

    The study of Suslova et al. found indications of two non-Kipchak sources of admixture, Finno-Ugric and Bulgar

    This seems to confirms that Tartars have too much Asian ancestry from 12 to 30 percent to be considered wholly European, and they are called Turkic not White, if it was no more than 5 percent they can still be grandfathered in, confirms that Tartars are basically mutts or mongrels.

    • Replies: @melanf
  152. 216 says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Mexican citizens flood into USA, but American citizens do not flood into Mexico.

    Mexico is violent. If Mexican violence declined to reasonable levels, a lot of Americans would retire there.

    Not a lot of Brits in Poland, but many are in Spain.

    Costa Rica is much less violent, and has a small city’s worth of retirees and expats from the US. Not as many CR emigres in the US.

    Tarantino married an Israeli woman. I guess the same as Steven Segal emigrating to Russia.

    • Replies: @Znzn
    , @Dmitry
  153. Znzn says:
    @216

    Can’t you just live for the long term in a four star resort?

  154. melanf says:
    @Znzn

    Comparison of the proportions of Caucasoid and Mongoloid characteristics in the gene pools of ethnic groups in the Volga-Ural region revealed a heterogenous pattern. Data on the proportions of major racial components in the nuclear genome indicated that the Mongoloid characters were most prevalent in Bashkirs, Maris, Volga Tatars, and Chuvashes, while the Caucasoid component was maximum in Mordovians, Komis, and Udmurts.

    This is an obvious absurdity since the Tatars (as well as the Chuvash and Mari) have a predominant European appearance. Here’s an example of ethnic Tatars

    This seems to confirms that Tartars have too much Asian ancestry from 12 to 30 percent to be considered wholly European, and they are called Turkic not White

    The Turks are a language family. The Turks are a language family. Wherever in the Southern United States of the late 19th century, Tatars (in the absolute majority) would be considered white.

    Here you can see a faces of Kazan Tatars

    • Replies: @Znzn
  155. @Korenchkin

    Nor are most Italians on the mainland (as opposed to Sicily).

  156. Znzn says:
    @melanf

    Actually I copypastad it from Wikipedia, I did not type it myself . So it was not my own original research. And can get someone who can pass for white while having half or 40 percent Chinese ancestry, see Kristin Kreuk and Alexa Chung.

  157. @A Spaniard

    “the conformism most women are attracted to in this cultural milieu

    Women are attracted to conformism in any cultural milieu. “Go along to get along”* has worked pretty well for them over the millennia.

    In the 1950s UK, culturally conservative, one of the complaints of the left was that women always tended to vote Conservative. You could monitor the success of the 60s cultural revolution by the way that changed, they now tend to vote left.

    The cultural milieu is the thing, and it’s in the hands of people who don’t want whites to breed. I can’t remember the last white family I saw on a TV advert.

    I wonder

    a) who’s having the kids in Israel – is it just the Orthodox, who I would presume avoid TV, or are secular Jews breeding as well?

    b) if secular Jews are breeding, what’s their cultural milieu? I’d bet there aren’t many mixed-race couples on Israeli TV.

    In the UK, Muslims are having lots of kids – they have their own TV, with their own adverts, in some places their own cinemas. There’s some ‘boil-off’ of Muslim girls becoming westernised, but its not huge, and the odd honour killing also deters. I imagine there are zero black people in the adverts on their TV channels.

    * http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

  158. @Thulean Friend

    “I’m personally agnostic as to how many university graduates is “appropriate” in a society, but the anti-intellectual attacks on liberal arts so common on the right is fairly low IQ.”

    I’m absolutely certain the number is a lot less than 40%.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/feb/06/two-in-five-18-year-olds-uk-apply-study-university-this-year

    Yet I’m told there’s a skills shortage in the UK. Either it’s a lie, and it’s just employers wanting cheap labour, or our university system is failing.

    Btw, I’d be all for abolishing every degree course with the word “Studies” in the title. “Studies” is to studying as “Democratic” in a country’s name was to democracy.

    How many graphic designers does a country need – and indeed, how easy is it to teach good design?

    I know a girl with £45,000 of debt, a third-class degree in design (admittedly to get that you have to be pretty awful these days or not go to any lectures), she’s working on the tills in a shop selling imported Chinese tat. I’ve supervised bright young people with 2.1s from good universities on minimum wage in financial services. Many such cases!

    • Replies: @Znzn
  159. Znzn says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Well the classic Republican Roman curiculum was heavily based on liberal arts if you count rhetoric as liberal arts, and how about classical Greek literature and philosophy? And the ancient Chinese education needed to pass the Imperial Civil Service exam was almost entirely liberal arts based in you can call the Confucian classics the liberal arts.

  160. @A Spaniard

    We’ll see how many you end up with. My sister wanted 3 or 4 and could only manage to have 2 after 2 C-sections and an ectopic pregnancy. Women who are truly ready to commit to such numbers are hard to come by in most western countries. Especially after they’ve seen how they eat up their sleep and social life and there is no underlying culture/religion that justifies their decisions.

    Hate to come across as yet another moralizing Swede, but I think part of untying these knots is to take on more of a homemaker role yourself (cooking, washing, etc.) so that family life doesn’t become too much of chore. This isn’t the trouble it sounds like so long as you divide the labor into things that each of you reasonably enjoy. There is also the traditional way of making your wife a stay-at-home mother, of course, but I don’t quite see this working unless you live somewhere where this is the norm.

    Hope you get lucky though.

    Thanks!

  161. Dmitry says:
    @216

    Not a lot of Brits in Poland, but many are in Spain.

    Spain has slightly lower incomes and lower job availability than UK. While Spain has equal or slightly better health service and infrastructure than UK.

    As we would expect, there are hundreds of thousands of English pensioners who live in Spain after retiring (i.e. there is no income consideration for them), for sun, Mediterranean food, fast trains and good health service.

    At the same time, there are hundreds of thousands of Spanish people (mainly young people of productive age) who were working in the UK before Brexit.

    Tarantino married an Israeli woman. I guess the same as Steven Segal emigrating to Russia.

    He could become one of the few people in recent history that can be described as “liberal ideological motivated emigration” from America to Israel, as he and wife could live in Miami, Monaco, Tokyo, or Dubai, if he wanted. He has a flexible job and vast income from America, so unlike a normal man, can live where he feels like depending on mood. He says like he dislikes Trump and is excited about elections in Israel.

    As an example of how important income usually is for immigration, for the mass of normal people, which are not celebrities.

    If we look again at the data above:

    “In 2019, 46,6% of the total number of new citizens arrived in Israel from Russia. This is followed by Ukraine – 18,8%, the USA – 7,7%, France – 6,9%.”

    Compare total numbers of people of Jewish descent who are eligible for Law of Return in the countries.

    It seems that during year 2019 the rate of immigration from Ukraine to Israel on “Law of Return” of eligible citizens (people with the Jewish grandparent, or husband/wife with one) is something like 4000-5000% higher than the per capita rate of immigration of eligible people from America to Israel.

    There is a quite an example of the power of higher or lower incomes, on immigration rates between countries.

  162. @Swedish Family

    I would add that white mass immigration (if this ever became a thing)

    This was a thing, when Tony Blair opened the floodgates, it wasn’t just people from the commonwealth that migrated en masses, but also Eastern Europeans looking for work.

    These were mostly Poles and they really hit the working class hard, while the Pakistanis and Nigerians were causing mayhem in the way of gangs and murder, the Eastern Europeans were severely undercutting the wages of native British. Poles were more hard working than native Brits when it came to blue-collared ‘handyman’ jobs like plumbers or electricians, they also do it for less cost making them an attractive option for people who want a job done well and on the cheap.

    Unfortunately, most of this money was sent back to Poland, I know a guy who worked hard and lived in a crappy little flat while sending money back to his family in Poland, they now have a very large house.

    The problem is that because of Holocaust education, Europeans are extremely squeemish about racialism based opposition to immigration, especially Anglos where the ethnic nationalist party BNP only got 1.9% of the vote in 2010;(despite getting lots of press coverage). Opposing all immigration on the basis that more people = more supply = wage suppression would he a good argument avoiding the embarrassment of the racial question, unfortunately ostensibly socialist parties like Labour is now a party that panders to those who live on State handouts, a large proportion of this underclass in composed of immigrants from Kashmir, Pakistan. These immigrants like to marry off their children to someone from Kashmir and then bring them to the UK, so the Labour party has to keep the borders open to keep its current voter base happy and even gain voters, the cycle continues.

    A socialist party should campaign on immigration quasi-moratorium for economic reasons only, small numbers should be given temporary working and residence permits while the citizens of a country are given time to train and fill in any skills shortages, after which the immigrants’ visas are not renewed and they can go home. There should also be a voluntary repatriation scheme, pay X amount of money to those who are willing to relocate to a country of their choosing and take up citizenship there, make the country extra uncomfortable for Muslims in particular with things like banking Halal meat and actually enforcing the law properly to make renouncing citizenship for money an attractive option.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  163. @Mr. Hack

    AK is a unique guy and I wish we had more people with his intelligence, pride, curiousity, loyalty, and spirit here in the USA. And it’s no joke to say that his country — and we likeminded people abroad — need to see a growing Karlin family and soon.

    As someone who started having children late, I heartily agree with Hack here. It is physically demanding, and forty is NOT the new thirty. Fifty is definitely not the new forty, either, even if one stays fit and active. You can’t predict the health issues you may develop well before old age, as I have discovered to my unpleasant surprise.

    Plus you want to maximize the years you have with your children. Partly for the sheer unparalleled joy, love, and fulfillment of being together and giving yourself to them and your wife together. Partly to guide them and influence them against sick ideas and lifestyles as long as possible into their adulthood.

    God bless you, AK, and get to it, man. It’s worth every dollar (ruble) and every ounce of effort and sacrifice.

    And we are outnumbered out here and need more young people of the quality and character you are likely to raise.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  164. @Just passing through

    Your proposals are superb and seem more practical than what I generally read. Let’s hope the actual brits remaining in the UK adopt some of these before it is truly too late. Fairly soon.

  165. @Svevlad

    Love your spirit, man! If you are realistically ready for the demands on your time, money, and emotional resources that such a huge family will entail, it should be good for you and, more importantly, for the children. Assuming you can earn quite a lot.

    And it likely will be good for the rest of us who are becoming culturally outnumbered “out here.” Our kids will need reinforcements.

    We have a family around half that size and have never regretted it. And I can say that even though we live in one of the more financially and culturally inhospitable places for a large, more-or-less traditional family: Los Angeles. Not to say we recommend someplace like L.A. for an ambitious plan like yours, because we generally do not.

    We will probably stop mainly because of (1) the increasing risk of birth defects (not terrible at my wife’s age but of course going up), (2) the obvious difficulty for my wife of bearing and raising a baby/toddler, say, two years from now compared to when we started years ago, and (3) my own advanced age for someone raising this many young children.

    Help your wife as much as you can with the physical burdens of raising them, ESPECIALLY when you are tired and not motivated to do so — just imagine how SHE feels. God bless you —

  166. Mr. Hack says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Do you think that it’s just a coincidence that Karlin is holding his heart in his hand, and doesn’t seem to know what to do with it? Just hand it over to the good looking devushka standing right next to you, Tolik! He never did answer my question, whether or not he was having more “mack-attacks” lately? 🙂

  167. @Znzn

    It has no moral obligation to consider anyone russian who is outside the RF and not ethnically russian (broadly construed as Russian ethnicity apparently is, including people who are substantially genetically part-Russian or East Slav mixed with a neighboring Asian people —whether the people outside the RF are genetically Europeans, Eurasians, or nonEuropeans.

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