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The Hungarian Parliament just passed an extremely based and corona-pilled bill that, as summarized by journalist Balazs Csekö, gives Viktor Orban unlimited power and establishes:

  • State of emergency
  • Rule by decree
  • Parliament suspended
  • No elections
  • Spreading fake news & rumors: up to 5 years in prison
  • Leaving quarantine: up to 8 years in prison

No 90-day deadline, as proposed by the opposition, was added. No chance of significance consequences since any EU sanctions will be vetoed by Poland, which is friendly with Hungary.

Neolibs are in meltdown.

Is there nothing /ourgal/ Corona-chan can’t accomplish?

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Corona, Hungary, Orban 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. Finally I agree with a recent post by Anatoly Karlin. This is potentially good because it’s Orban, who is a Christian with a large family rather than a godless materialist shitlib like the other people to whom many of you have given your complete confidence.

    Meanwhile, I eagerly await someone here who can explain why Dr. Anthony Fauci, who has failed upwards for 5 decades, is telling the medical world that Corona Chan is basically Just the Flu while telling us hoi polloi something entirely different.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?fbclid=IwAR3qCQxl6DQD-9y_6NeEPngY11Sct0HfC0UhOQ32mRMOtiv7e018Qsum4zk

    …the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.

    Could it be that our American ancestors, who were not scared out of daily life by the truly horrendous Spanish flu, were more prepared because they didn’t live under our thoroughly corrupt corpse-state that couldn’t bother to have masks and hospital capacity ready for a flu pandemic that, like 1957 and 1968, should not remotely force the “lockdown” of normal life?

    Reminder that Babe Ruth had his first great season – a full season, from April through early autumn – while players took basic precautions in dealing with a far more severe pandemic.

    The only reason Corona Chan threatens us is because America and the West in general are so decadent that even the slightest strain threatens to overwhelm them. It’s completely ridiculous and pathetic. But the elites are doing what they always do, which is punish the little guy while trying to stave off their inevitable judgment by the laws of nature.

  3. The E.U. doesn’t like it when national governments implement rule by decree in emergencies.

    But when the E.U. imposes unelected “technocrat” austerity governments on economically ravaged member states—like they did in Italy and Greece a decade ago, and de facto did to Ireland in 2011 by prohibiting the government from calling an election before passing a budget—that’s just fine and dandy.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Apparently Belgium have done pretty much the same thing.

    The Special Authorization Law grants special powers to the government to manage the health crisis and its economic consequences for a period of minimum three and maximum six months. Measures related to the crisis and its economic consequences can now be taken without consulting the parliament first.
     
    The Guardian has a more anodyne, nothing-to-see-here approach.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/belgium-hands-powers-to-caretaker-pm-sophie-wilmes-to-fight-covid-19

    "The Wilmès government, composed of two liberal and one Christian Democratic party, will now be supported by seven other parties across the political spectrum, save the far right and far left.

    These parties have agreed to award the government special powers to sidestep the normal legislative process in order to deal with the impact of coronavirus on Belgium’s health system and economy. "
     
  4. Impressive, but he is inviting a post-Franco reaction.

  5. This is worrisome because I like Orban and don’t want to see him succumbing to the corruption of having absolute power. But it’s really not much different than what Boris Johnson is doing in Britain.

    • Replies: @Miha
    Johnson will be subject to parliamentary scrutiny once parliament resumes on the 21st of April after the Easter recess. Orban has placed no such time limits on his decree.
  6. Hungary.
    Neolibs are in meltdown.

    What’s the relation to neoliberalism?

    Neoliberalism is historically criticized (with justification) for being popular with incompletely-democratic leaders. The most famous neoliberal leaders are Pinochet, Fujimori (who “Fujishocked” Peru) and to a lesser extent Lee Kuan Yew. All were economically successful and resulted in long term modernization of their countries, but at the same time their disadvantage was suppression of political differences and opponents.

    In Europe it’s a little different, as there has been no political suppression by neoliberal reformers: Orban is the most neoliberal leader currently, and has consent of the population for his policies – e.g. you can see if you compare business taxation rates in Europe, where Hungary is the most competitive country.

    Viktor Orban unlimited power and establishes:

    Obviously, this is to increase state capacity during an epidemic. Such a move will not have ideological content and will be reversed when the epidemic is ending.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    You gotta explain to me the relation between neoliberalism and LKY. LKY ran a state dominated economy where the government gave itself a de facto monopoly over sectors like real estate and finance, while Pinochet and Fujimori pretty much tried to dismantle any semblance of state enterprise (which they failed to do btw).
    , @Tusk

    Such a move will not have ideological content and will be reversed when the epidemic is ending
     
    But doesn't Orban now have ultimate power and it will only go back to usual when he lets it? He now is the sole political and executive power of the State with no conecessions. I don't think he's going to give it up after this is over.
    , @AltSerrice
    When AK refers to neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation, not the economic definition.

    Modern neoliberals are more of an all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc. They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.
  7. @Dmitry

    Hungary.
    Neolibs are in meltdown.
     
    What's the relation to neoliberalism?

    Neoliberalism is historically criticized (with justification) for being popular with incompletely-democratic leaders. The most famous neoliberal leaders are Pinochet, Fujimori (who "Fujishocked" Peru) and to a lesser extent Lee Kuan Yew. All were economically successful and resulted in long term modernization of their countries, but at the same time their disadvantage was suppression of political differences and opponents.

    In Europe it's a little different, as there has been no political suppression by neoliberal reformers: Orban is the most neoliberal leader currently, and has consent of the population for his policies - e.g. you can see if you compare business taxation rates in Europe, where Hungary is the most competitive country.


    Viktor Orban unlimited power and establishes:
     
    Obviously, this is to increase state capacity during an epidemic. Such a move will not have ideological content and will be reversed when the epidemic is ending.

    You gotta explain to me the relation between neoliberalism and LKY. LKY ran a state dominated economy where the government gave itself a de facto monopoly over sectors like real estate and finance, while Pinochet and Fujimori pretty much tried to dismantle any semblance of state enterprise (which they failed to do btw).

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Dmitry likes using completely nonsensical definitions.
    , @Dmitry
    If you watch interviews with Lee Kuan Yew, he is the greatest fan of Friedrich von Hayek, Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. On the other side, Milton Friedman was fan of Lee Kuan Yew.

    Singapore is mainly popular for its low taxes, antiprotectionism in international trade, and pioneering deregulation. That's not to say it's a perfect example for neoliberalism (he had too much paternalism - although in the context of modernizing an originally third-world country which had inherited a primitive Chinese/Indian population, this great paternalism can make sense, compared in a context of a civilized European country). But he is more flattering, than the openly neoliberal Fujimori and Pinochet, who are responsible for this association which is in most peoples' minds between neoliberalism and bourgeois authoritarianism or dictatorship.

  8. @Swarthy Greek
    You gotta explain to me the relation between neoliberalism and LKY. LKY ran a state dominated economy where the government gave itself a de facto monopoly over sectors like real estate and finance, while Pinochet and Fujimori pretty much tried to dismantle any semblance of state enterprise (which they failed to do btw).

    Dmitry likes using completely nonsensical definitions.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  9. @Swarthy Greek
    You gotta explain to me the relation between neoliberalism and LKY. LKY ran a state dominated economy where the government gave itself a de facto monopoly over sectors like real estate and finance, while Pinochet and Fujimori pretty much tried to dismantle any semblance of state enterprise (which they failed to do btw).

    If you watch interviews with Lee Kuan Yew, he is the greatest fan of Friedrich von Hayek, Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. On the other side, Milton Friedman was fan of Lee Kuan Yew.

    Singapore is mainly popular for its low taxes, antiprotectionism in international trade, and pioneering deregulation. That’s not to say it’s a perfect example for neoliberalism (he had too much paternalism – although in the context of modernizing an originally third-world country which had inherited a primitive Chinese/Indian population, this great paternalism can make sense, compared in a context of a civilized European country). But he is more flattering, than the openly neoliberal Fujimori and Pinochet, who are responsible for this association which is in most peoples’ minds between neoliberalism and bourgeois authoritarianism or dictatorship.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    Singapore's economy is organized on a state capitalism model with the government directly intervening in areas like Housing(HDB),Defense (ST Kinetics) and indirectly via the Temasek Holdings holding large shares in many other companies.

    Politically it is a Confucian legalist one party state masquerading as a Westminster model democracy due to its unique circumstances.

    A Neo liberal Asian city state of the sort you are indicating would be pre 1997 Hong Kong.
    , @216
    LKY never had to deal with running an industrial state spreading across even a moderate territory. As a city-state, free trade is the only logical solution when you lack natural resources of your own.

    he had too much paternalism
     
    When Western societies had paternalism and patriarchy, we were globe spanning conquerors. Now we are laugable consumerists of an atomized society.
  10. @Dmitry
    If you watch interviews with Lee Kuan Yew, he is the greatest fan of Friedrich von Hayek, Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. On the other side, Milton Friedman was fan of Lee Kuan Yew.

    Singapore is mainly popular for its low taxes, antiprotectionism in international trade, and pioneering deregulation. That's not to say it's a perfect example for neoliberalism (he had too much paternalism - although in the context of modernizing an originally third-world country which had inherited a primitive Chinese/Indian population, this great paternalism can make sense, compared in a context of a civilized European country). But he is more flattering, than the openly neoliberal Fujimori and Pinochet, who are responsible for this association which is in most peoples' minds between neoliberalism and bourgeois authoritarianism or dictatorship.

    Singapore’s economy is organized on a state capitalism model with the government directly intervening in areas like Housing(HDB),Defense (ST Kinetics) and indirectly via the Temasek Holdings holding large shares in many other companies.

    Politically it is a Confucian legalist one party state masquerading as a Westminster model democracy due to its unique circumstances.

    A Neo liberal Asian city state of the sort you are indicating would be pre 1997 Hong Kong.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    I am in total agreement with your comment. LKY may have mentioned Reagan and that Thatcher to please gullible westerners, but his governing style, policies and attitude were thoroughly that of a good confucean leader. One note that i'd like to add is that ST has diversified activities outside of defense and also has expanded in domains such as railway signalling, shipbuilding and chemical engineering.
    , @Dmitry
    Singapore is usually described as strongest country in terms of anti-protectionism, ease of doing business, and deregulation, and - perhaps it is one of the original model or pioneer, in terms of good hospitality to multinational investment (the kind of situation people like Orban try to copy, intelligently).

    Yes - advanced European like Switzerland had been attractive for multinationals to relocate to, but was it used before as an economic development model for a third world country like Singapore was?

    State housing and landowning situation seems similar between Singapore and Hong Kong. It's perhaps something unique for these city states:
    https://ink.library.smu.edu.sg/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2803&context=soe_research


    Neo liberal Asian city state of the sort you are indicating would be pre 1997 Hong Kong.
     
    Hong Kong seems to have something more extreme in the land tenure system - all land is state property, which they lease (and generate governments' revenue in).
    https://www.academia.edu/33616364/The_System_of_Landholding_in_Hong_Kong
  11. @Vishnugupta
    Singapore's economy is organized on a state capitalism model with the government directly intervening in areas like Housing(HDB),Defense (ST Kinetics) and indirectly via the Temasek Holdings holding large shares in many other companies.

    Politically it is a Confucian legalist one party state masquerading as a Westminster model democracy due to its unique circumstances.

    A Neo liberal Asian city state of the sort you are indicating would be pre 1997 Hong Kong.

    I am in total agreement with your comment. LKY may have mentioned Reagan and that Thatcher to please gullible westerners, but his governing style, policies and attitude were thoroughly that of a good confucean leader. One note that i’d like to add is that ST has diversified activities outside of defense and also has expanded in domains such as railway signalling, shipbuilding and chemical engineering.

    • Agree: Vishnugupta
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    LKY may have mentioned Reagan and that Thatcher
     
    He was a Chinese man who was educated in England. He seems to understand- and this was one of the main barriers for foreign investment - the population of the third world country of that time, which were not quite yet civilized English gentleman, that can reform themselves, and live free from paternalism and coercion.

    First reason people wouldn't have wanted to invest in Singapore, would be a corrupt system stealing your investment, as you might stereotypically imagine as an ordinary customer on aliexpress, before they extended the customer protection.

    Anti-corruption, anti-organized crime, and stable English legal system were some of the best things to attract multinational investment. And Singapore has focused on creating this, sometimes having to use authoritarian ways.


    Reagan and that Thatcher to please gullible westerners,
     
    The main success of Singapore, is a result of the application of English laws. Corrupt Chinese people tricking gullible Westerners, would have been a lot less attractive and stable place for investment.

    e that i’d like to add is that ST has diversified activities outside of defense and also has expanded in domains such as railway signalling, shipbuilding and
     
    Country's economic success is dependent on foreign investment and trade - actually a lot is with their English contract law, multi-lingual education, which allows them to act like an English legal service for Chinese businesses, as well as many other parts of the world (a lot of Russians are working through Singapore, especially as legal insurance when doing business in China).
  12. Nice title.

    BTW, is there anyway that Queen Elizabeth could pass the crown to Orban? I ask because Prince William recently said that the Baftas are too white.

  13. Romania had the cure for politicians who want to rule by decree. Christmas Day 1989, a day that should inspire us all.

  14. “neolibs”

    Bankster Bolshevik-Biological Leninists? Nah, but the enemy rules the Empire and they can get away with just calling anyone they dislike a “fascist” even though that’s objectively very stupid.

  15. He will not use nor abuse any of the emergency powers, will happily renounce them and go on to comfortably win the next election, his electorate very satisfied with his handling of the crisis compared to western EU members, UK and USA.

    I am seeing so many smolbrain takes, so many shortsighted individuals.

    No, this episode will showcase that for a country to move in the right direction, no Parliament is necessary. All of these Liberalism and Parliamentary Democracy Zealots promote them as virtuous and superior ideas on their own, and no longer as means towards a certain goal.

    Liberal Democracy is a disastrous ideology and system. Inevitably, the Oligarchy gains power and subverts the society.

    Throughout the European history, the struggle was centralized, state power vs Magnates/Boyars/Oligarchy; recently, foreign Capital/Multinationals and NGO subversion entered the equation.

    Orban is playing the long game, and part of that is presenting an alternative, a choice for homogenous nation states. Especially those with revisionist/revanchist sentiment regarding the status quo.

    Screencap this.

    • Replies: @216

    Orban is playing the long game, and part of that is presenting an alternative, a choice for homogenous nation states. Especially those with revisionist/revanchist sentiment regarding the status quo.
     
    To succeed he has to convince his fellow EPP parties of his direction. In retrospective, the withdrawal of the UK Conservatives from the EPP was a foreshadowing of the eventual tip towards the Brexit.

    At present, the FPO and AfD are basically inert, and neither will be sniffing power without renovations.

    East Europe nationalists will not succeed unless they get allied parties elected into majority government in West Europe. For now, VB in Belgium holds the pole position in the polls, while an FN surprise in France is still remote but more likely than the last round. But as neither party is EPP, Orban's ties are limited. He should think about finding a way to seed his people into these parties.
  16. @Dmitry

    Hungary.
    Neolibs are in meltdown.
     
    What's the relation to neoliberalism?

    Neoliberalism is historically criticized (with justification) for being popular with incompletely-democratic leaders. The most famous neoliberal leaders are Pinochet, Fujimori (who "Fujishocked" Peru) and to a lesser extent Lee Kuan Yew. All were economically successful and resulted in long term modernization of their countries, but at the same time their disadvantage was suppression of political differences and opponents.

    In Europe it's a little different, as there has been no political suppression by neoliberal reformers: Orban is the most neoliberal leader currently, and has consent of the population for his policies - e.g. you can see if you compare business taxation rates in Europe, where Hungary is the most competitive country.


    Viktor Orban unlimited power and establishes:
     
    Obviously, this is to increase state capacity during an epidemic. Such a move will not have ideological content and will be reversed when the epidemic is ending.

    Such a move will not have ideological content and will be reversed when the epidemic is ending

    But doesn’t Orban now have ultimate power and it will only go back to usual when he lets it? He now is the sole political and executive power of the State with no conecessions. I don’t think he’s going to give it up after this is over.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I will not say I know anything about Hungarian politics. But obviously, considering the context of the epidemic and Hungarian politics, this is just a typical "state of emergency" legislation.

    In the "state of emergency", you temporarily add additional power to government and remove unnecessary formal barriers to action, to increase state capacity to respond to such emergency - epidemic is a particularly important reason for this.

    Historically, this legislation can be abused for coup d'etat (often something involving the army). However, in this situation, such interpretation would make no sense, considering Orban already has by far the largest party of the parliament, which just voted to suspend its operation.

  17. @Dmitry

    Hungary.
    Neolibs are in meltdown.
     
    What's the relation to neoliberalism?

    Neoliberalism is historically criticized (with justification) for being popular with incompletely-democratic leaders. The most famous neoliberal leaders are Pinochet, Fujimori (who "Fujishocked" Peru) and to a lesser extent Lee Kuan Yew. All were economically successful and resulted in long term modernization of their countries, but at the same time their disadvantage was suppression of political differences and opponents.

    In Europe it's a little different, as there has been no political suppression by neoliberal reformers: Orban is the most neoliberal leader currently, and has consent of the population for his policies - e.g. you can see if you compare business taxation rates in Europe, where Hungary is the most competitive country.


    Viktor Orban unlimited power and establishes:
     
    Obviously, this is to increase state capacity during an epidemic. Such a move will not have ideological content and will be reversed when the epidemic is ending.

    When AK refers to neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation, not the economic definition.

    Modern neoliberals are more of an all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc. They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.

    • Replies: @216
    WokeCapital
    , @Dmitry

    neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation
     
    Neoliberal is a modern day word. It was recently invented to refer to the rebirth (or becoming fashionable again) of classical liberal ideas.

    The reason they need this prefix, is because of the meaning of word "liberal" was also recently changed, and had begun to be used to refer to left-wing ideas, which are often opposing policies of the classical liberal political leaders like Gladstone.


    not the economic definition.
     
    There's no separate "economic definition".

    "Neoliberalism" refers (although usually used by left-wing opponents) to a recent political-economic ideology that became fashionable with Friedrich von Hayek, Milton Friedman, et al, as well people inspired by classical liberal ideas they admire.

    These ideas are compatible with different levels of democracy - for example, Friedman and Hayek admired democratic Reagan and Thatcher, but Friedman also admired undemocratic Pinochet and Lee Kuan Yew.

    Obviously, the latter have far more negative and undemocratic aspects to them, but in the context of the primitive countries they inherited, we can be more understanding of their undemocratic sides. (They did not inherit advanced European countries, but their mission was converting third world countries to developed ones).


    all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc.
     
    This is a caricature of liberals, in the recent leftwing sense of the word "liberal" (as opposed to the traditional understanding of "liberal"). In the modern context, there's no reason to add "neo" to the word, unless perhaps as clickbait for illiterate people that know "Neo" as a character from the Matrix (which trashy film is also referred to in the post above).

    They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.
     
    Lol, Mishustin as Prime Minister now - i.e. resource extraction economy with aspiring neoliberal wrapping paper.
    , @Mikhail
    Regarding their dislike of Russia as it pertains to the coronavirus and Olympics:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/03/30/continued-western-mass-media-creativity-misinformation-on-russia-knows-no-bounds/
    , @Mikhail
    Regarding their dislike of Russia as it pertains to the coronavirus and Olympics:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/03/30/continued-western-mass-media-creativity-misinformation-on-russia-knows-no-bounds/
    , @Swedish Family

    When AK refers to neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation, not the economic definition.

    Modern neoliberals are more of an all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc. They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.
     
    Yes. Neoliberalism is best seen as unconditional surrender to the postwar liberal world order. Any sovereignty that matters is surrendered to the institutions of "the international community" (in effect the US State Department) or "the international markets" (in effect also a hostile foreign actor).
  18. 216 says: • Website
    @Dmitry
    If you watch interviews with Lee Kuan Yew, he is the greatest fan of Friedrich von Hayek, Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. On the other side, Milton Friedman was fan of Lee Kuan Yew.

    Singapore is mainly popular for its low taxes, antiprotectionism in international trade, and pioneering deregulation. That's not to say it's a perfect example for neoliberalism (he had too much paternalism - although in the context of modernizing an originally third-world country which had inherited a primitive Chinese/Indian population, this great paternalism can make sense, compared in a context of a civilized European country). But he is more flattering, than the openly neoliberal Fujimori and Pinochet, who are responsible for this association which is in most peoples' minds between neoliberalism and bourgeois authoritarianism or dictatorship.

    LKY never had to deal with running an industrial state spreading across even a moderate territory. As a city-state, free trade is the only logical solution when you lack natural resources of your own.

    he had too much paternalism

    When Western societies had paternalism and patriarchy, we were globe spanning conquerors. Now we are laugable consumerists of an atomized society.

  19. @AltSerrice
    When AK refers to neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation, not the economic definition.

    Modern neoliberals are more of an all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc. They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.

    WokeCapital

  20. 216 says: • Website
    @Epigon
    He will not use nor abuse any of the emergency powers, will happily renounce them and go on to comfortably win the next election, his electorate very satisfied with his handling of the crisis compared to western EU members, UK and USA.

    I am seeing so many smolbrain takes, so many shortsighted individuals.

    No, this episode will showcase that for a country to move in the right direction, no Parliament is necessary. All of these Liberalism and Parliamentary Democracy Zealots promote them as virtuous and superior ideas on their own, and no longer as means towards a certain goal.

    Liberal Democracy is a disastrous ideology and system. Inevitably, the Oligarchy gains power and subverts the society.

    Throughout the European history, the struggle was centralized, state power vs Magnates/Boyars/Oligarchy; recently, foreign Capital/Multinationals and NGO subversion entered the equation.

    Orban is playing the long game, and part of that is presenting an alternative, a choice for homogenous nation states. Especially those with revisionist/revanchist sentiment regarding the status quo.

    Screencap this.

    Orban is playing the long game, and part of that is presenting an alternative, a choice for homogenous nation states. Especially those with revisionist/revanchist sentiment regarding the status quo.

    To succeed he has to convince his fellow EPP parties of his direction. In retrospective, the withdrawal of the UK Conservatives from the EPP was a foreshadowing of the eventual tip towards the Brexit.

    At present, the FPO and AfD are basically inert, and neither will be sniffing power without renovations.

    East Europe nationalists will not succeed unless they get allied parties elected into majority government in West Europe. For now, VB in Belgium holds the pole position in the polls, while an FN surprise in France is still remote but more likely than the last round. But as neither party is EPP, Orban’s ties are limited. He should think about finding a way to seed his people into these parties.

  21. So an updated version of Admiral Horthy during the interwar period?

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Horthy was an old school patriot and a had a code of honor. You cannot compare him to Orban.
  22. @AltSerrice
    When AK refers to neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation, not the economic definition.

    Modern neoliberals are more of an all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc. They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.

    neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation

    Neoliberal is a modern day word. It was recently invented to refer to the rebirth (or becoming fashionable again) of classical liberal ideas.

    The reason they need this prefix, is because of the meaning of word “liberal” was also recently changed, and had begun to be used to refer to left-wing ideas, which are often opposing policies of the classical liberal political leaders like Gladstone.

    not the economic definition.

    There’s no separate “economic definition”.

    “Neoliberalism” refers (although usually used by left-wing opponents) to a recent political-economic ideology that became fashionable with Friedrich von Hayek, Milton Friedman, et al, as well people inspired by classical liberal ideas they admire.

    These ideas are compatible with different levels of democracy – for example, Friedman and Hayek admired democratic Reagan and Thatcher, but Friedman also admired undemocratic Pinochet and Lee Kuan Yew.

    Obviously, the latter have far more negative and undemocratic aspects to them, but in the context of the primitive countries they inherited, we can be more understanding of their undemocratic sides. (They did not inherit advanced European countries, but their mission was converting third world countries to developed ones).

    all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc.

    This is a caricature of liberals, in the recent leftwing sense of the word “liberal” (as opposed to the traditional understanding of “liberal”). In the modern context, there’s no reason to add “neo” to the word, unless perhaps as clickbait for illiterate people that know “Neo” as a character from the Matrix (which trashy film is also referred to in the post above).

    They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.

    Lol, Mishustin as Prime Minister now – i.e. resource extraction economy with aspiring neoliberal wrapping paper.

    • Replies: @blank-misgivings
    Were you educated in economics in the 1980s and never read a book since? For me, neoliberalism means the transfer of resources to the FIRE sector from the pockets of the masses and middle class, under the phoney guise of 'free' markets, and undermining of all aspects of economic nationalism. Its prime enemy is nationalism, not leftism.

    I doubt Thatcher and Reagan cared about Hayek, even if the former may have read him.
  23. @Tusk

    Such a move will not have ideological content and will be reversed when the epidemic is ending
     
    But doesn't Orban now have ultimate power and it will only go back to usual when he lets it? He now is the sole political and executive power of the State with no conecessions. I don't think he's going to give it up after this is over.

    I will not say I know anything about Hungarian politics. But obviously, considering the context of the epidemic and Hungarian politics, this is just a typical “state of emergency” legislation.

    In the “state of emergency”, you temporarily add additional power to government and remove unnecessary formal barriers to action, to increase state capacity to respond to such emergency – epidemic is a particularly important reason for this.

    Historically, this legislation can be abused for coup d’etat (often something involving the army). However, in this situation, such interpretation would make no sense, considering Orban already has by far the largest party of the parliament, which just voted to suspend its operation.

    • Replies: @Tusk
    True, you are right about the fact that Orban already dominates parliment, but just remember that Germany was pretty much in a State of Exception from 1933-1945. Things may tend longer than people think. Also I think the same can be said for Franco post civil war, who always intended to pass the reigns but just continued decade after decade in holding it and doing what he thought was best.
  24. @Vishnugupta
    Singapore's economy is organized on a state capitalism model with the government directly intervening in areas like Housing(HDB),Defense (ST Kinetics) and indirectly via the Temasek Holdings holding large shares in many other companies.

    Politically it is a Confucian legalist one party state masquerading as a Westminster model democracy due to its unique circumstances.

    A Neo liberal Asian city state of the sort you are indicating would be pre 1997 Hong Kong.

    Singapore is usually described as strongest country in terms of anti-protectionism, ease of doing business, and deregulation, and – perhaps it is one of the original model or pioneer, in terms of good hospitality to multinational investment (the kind of situation people like Orban try to copy, intelligently).

    Yes – advanced European like Switzerland had been attractive for multinationals to relocate to, but was it used before as an economic development model for a third world country like Singapore was?

    State housing and landowning situation seems similar between Singapore and Hong Kong. It’s perhaps something unique for these city states:
    https://ink.library.smu.edu.sg/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2803&context=soe_research

    Neo liberal Asian city state of the sort you are indicating would be pre 1997 Hong Kong.

    Hong Kong seems to have something more extreme in the land tenure system – all land is state property, which they lease (and generate governments’ revenue in).
    https://www.academia.edu/33616364/The_System_of_Landholding_in_Hong_Kong

  25. @Dmitry
    I will not say I know anything about Hungarian politics. But obviously, considering the context of the epidemic and Hungarian politics, this is just a typical "state of emergency" legislation.

    In the "state of emergency", you temporarily add additional power to government and remove unnecessary formal barriers to action, to increase state capacity to respond to such emergency - epidemic is a particularly important reason for this.

    Historically, this legislation can be abused for coup d'etat (often something involving the army). However, in this situation, such interpretation would make no sense, considering Orban already has by far the largest party of the parliament, which just voted to suspend its operation.

    True, you are right about the fact that Orban already dominates parliment, but just remember that Germany was pretty much in a State of Exception from 1933-1945. Things may tend longer than people think. Also I think the same can be said for Franco post civil war, who always intended to pass the reigns but just continued decade after decade in holding it and doing what he thought was best.

  26. @Swarthy Greek
    I am in total agreement with your comment. LKY may have mentioned Reagan and that Thatcher to please gullible westerners, but his governing style, policies and attitude were thoroughly that of a good confucean leader. One note that i'd like to add is that ST has diversified activities outside of defense and also has expanded in domains such as railway signalling, shipbuilding and chemical engineering.

    LKY may have mentioned Reagan and that Thatcher

    He was a Chinese man who was educated in England. He seems to understand- and this was one of the main barriers for foreign investment – the population of the third world country of that time, which were not quite yet civilized English gentleman, that can reform themselves, and live free from paternalism and coercion.

    First reason people wouldn’t have wanted to invest in Singapore, would be a corrupt system stealing your investment, as you might stereotypically imagine as an ordinary customer on aliexpress, before they extended the customer protection.

    Anti-corruption, anti-organized crime, and stable English legal system were some of the best things to attract multinational investment. And Singapore has focused on creating this, sometimes having to use authoritarian ways.

    Reagan and that Thatcher to please gullible westerners,

    The main success of Singapore, is a result of the application of English laws. Corrupt Chinese people tricking gullible Westerners, would have been a lot less attractive and stable place for investment.

    e that i’d like to add is that ST has diversified activities outside of defense and also has expanded in domains such as railway signalling, shipbuilding and

    Country’s economic success is dependent on foreign investment and trade – actually a lot is with their English contract law, multi-lingual education, which allows them to act like an English legal service for Chinese businesses, as well as many other parts of the world (a lot of Russians are working through Singapore, especially as legal insurance when doing business in China).

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    Missing the point
    What he was referring to was the lip service that Lee Kwan Yew was paying to Western leaders like Reagan and Thatcher in order to ensure the investments kept coming, instead of verbally attacking them and getting regime change'd
    LKY understood this well, in his writings he talked about being taught in school and even by his parents that the English people were naturally superior to the Chinese and other Asians and given the situation at the time this was easily the popular opinion even among other Singaporean asians (naturally opinions on this matter shifted after the British abandoned Singapore to the Japanese)

    LKY never forgot how to get what he wanted from Western leadership, lots of lip service, people like the current President of Serbia have taken similar lessons to heart
    When discussing these matters it's more important to look at the actions of leaders rather then their rhethoric

    with their English contract law
     
    IMO We're getting dangerously close to calling any system where laws are actually enforced "the English legal system"
  27. @AltSerrice
    When AK refers to neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation, not the economic definition.

    Modern neoliberals are more of an all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc. They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.
  28. @AltSerrice
    When AK refers to neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation, not the economic definition.

    Modern neoliberals are more of an all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc. They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.
  29. Heck….

    we need more pandemics.

  30. Orban is simply a gangster. He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power. He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country, turned most of the economy over to global car manufacturers and depends on EU subsidies to keep the lights on. Why do so called “patriots” continually fall for frauds like Orban, Putin, Erdogan and Trump? None of these people build anything, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries as long as they can. It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Troll: neutral
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power.
     
    Based.
    , @Korenchkin
    High IQ Hungarians who's boundless wisdom leads them to actually believe getting replaced by third worlders is better then working to raise your own birthrate
    Midwits like these can be a burden to any nation, smart enough to read Western papers, thinkers and research but not smart enough to read between the lines

    frauds like Putin, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries
     
    Pray tell, what was left to suck out of Russia in 1999?
    , @Epigon

    He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country
     
    Could you please help me understand how does this high IQ manifest?

    I am looking at Hungarian macroeconomic indicators, in addition to my direct contact with Hungarian professionals, engineers and businessmen - what type of people fail/do not prosper when the country has been booming in the last decade?

    The brain drain by itself is unavoidable, and has nothing to do with current or even recent leadership. A top of the line doctor, engineer or scientist who is interested in money and international recognition will move to the West. Period. USA can dish out vast sums of money for each countries’ best and brightest, outcompete them with little effort.

    , @Europe Europa
    Why are highly educated (which is what High IQ basically means) people usually so pro-open borders and socially liberal? This seems to be a common phenomena almost everywhere. If I were to guess I would say it's because highly educated people tend to work in industries and jobs where they often meet similarly High IQ foreigners, many of whom are often non-white, and they end up with an unrealistic and idealised view of what multiculturalism is like.

    Also, I think some people in Eastern Europe and other poorer countries look at countries like the UK and USA, and assume that multiculturalism and liberalism must be a superior system because they see those as the rich countries with money while they aren't.

    , @Pumblechook
    Well, Hungary has had genuinely interesting results with their aim to increase the birthrate. Not only have they dragged TFR up to 1.5 (from the 1.2 constant throughout the 90’s and 00’s) and kept it there for the last few years - it looks like the consistent efforts are now paying off with a further increase. January 2020 saw a monthly TFR of 1.60, first time this has been seen since early 90’s.

    Marriage numbers are at the same numbers last seen in the 80’s
    , @reiner Tor

    He is not a devout Christian
     
    Perhaps not, but it’s interesting that his only son (he has four daughters) went to Africa for a sabbatical to work for some charity, and upon return became an evangelical Christian (of the cringe American variety).

    He is corrupt, even, it appears, personally, but certainly it’s not his main motivation (the money is mostly stolen to pay allies or please family members, not for himself), even the alleged personal wealth under the control of a dumb front man is probably rather party money to keep the media empire and campaigns.
    , @dfordoom

    It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.
     
    It's starting to look that way. By the time the dust settles from the CV crisis/panic they may be the only ones left with functioning societies.
  31. @Republic
    So an updated version of Admiral Horthy during the interwar period?

    Horthy was an old school patriot and a had a code of honor. You cannot compare him to Orban.

  32. @Peter Akuleyev
    Orban is simply a gangster. He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power. He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country, turned most of the economy over to global car manufacturers and depends on EU subsidies to keep the lights on. Why do so called “patriots” continually fall for frauds like Orban, Putin, Erdogan and Trump? None of these people build anything, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries as long as they can. It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.

    He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power.

    Based.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
    As a fan of Putin, I can see why you would find such a leader appealing. Communism and the Slavic mindset are a match made in heaven, the only problems you guys had with it was that the whole operation was run by Jews as opposed to your own kinsmen, which would be okay.
  33. @Dmitry

    LKY may have mentioned Reagan and that Thatcher
     
    He was a Chinese man who was educated in England. He seems to understand- and this was one of the main barriers for foreign investment - the population of the third world country of that time, which were not quite yet civilized English gentleman, that can reform themselves, and live free from paternalism and coercion.

    First reason people wouldn't have wanted to invest in Singapore, would be a corrupt system stealing your investment, as you might stereotypically imagine as an ordinary customer on aliexpress, before they extended the customer protection.

    Anti-corruption, anti-organized crime, and stable English legal system were some of the best things to attract multinational investment. And Singapore has focused on creating this, sometimes having to use authoritarian ways.


    Reagan and that Thatcher to please gullible westerners,
     
    The main success of Singapore, is a result of the application of English laws. Corrupt Chinese people tricking gullible Westerners, would have been a lot less attractive and stable place for investment.

    e that i’d like to add is that ST has diversified activities outside of defense and also has expanded in domains such as railway signalling, shipbuilding and
     
    Country's economic success is dependent on foreign investment and trade - actually a lot is with their English contract law, multi-lingual education, which allows them to act like an English legal service for Chinese businesses, as well as many other parts of the world (a lot of Russians are working through Singapore, especially as legal insurance when doing business in China).

    Missing the point
    What he was referring to was the lip service that Lee Kwan Yew was paying to Western leaders like Reagan and Thatcher in order to ensure the investments kept coming, instead of verbally attacking them and getting regime change’d
    LKY understood this well, in his writings he talked about being taught in school and even by his parents that the English people were naturally superior to the Chinese and other Asians and given the situation at the time this was easily the popular opinion even among other Singaporean asians (naturally opinions on this matter shifted after the British abandoned Singapore to the Japanese)

    LKY never forgot how to get what he wanted from Western leadership, lots of lip service, people like the current President of Serbia have taken similar lessons to heart
    When discussing these matters it’s more important to look at the actions of leaders rather then their rhethoric

    with their English contract law

    IMO We’re getting dangerously close to calling any system where laws are actually enforced “the English legal system”

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh, Mitleser
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    Quality comments Korenchkin, couldn't agree more. Please keep them coming, you're one of the best commenters here.
    , @Dmitry
    Korenchkin I agree with your post, except the first and last sentence. I'm not sure how this is disagreeing with me, since I read it and agree with this text.

    Just the last sentence - Singapore has an English legal system, in the area relevant for companies and businesses who want to work there. It's one of its main attractions.
  34. @Peter Akuleyev
    Orban is simply a gangster. He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power. He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country, turned most of the economy over to global car manufacturers and depends on EU subsidies to keep the lights on. Why do so called “patriots” continually fall for frauds like Orban, Putin, Erdogan and Trump? None of these people build anything, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries as long as they can. It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.

    High IQ Hungarians who’s boundless wisdom leads them to actually believe getting replaced by third worlders is better then working to raise your own birthrate
    Midwits like these can be a burden to any nation, smart enough to read Western papers, thinkers and research but not smart enough to read between the lines

    frauds like Putin, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries

    Pray tell, what was left to suck out of Russia in 1999?

  35. Pray tell, what was left to suck out of Russia in 1999?

    Lots and lots of oil&gas.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    You mean the industries which were returned to state control under VVP? Which was then immediately followed by a massive rise in living standards for Russians and paved the way for Russia's modern resurgence and relative stability

    What people saw in Putin was a massive increase in their wage and life expectancy (and an endless supply of sportsball), the opposition crying about how something was stolen from the people rings hollow given the depravity of what was then the recent past and what appeared to be a return to normalcy in the near future

    Arguing that the rise would've come without Putin and the semi-authoritarian system is debatable, arguing that there was no improvement at all since the 90s is outright false
    I think this channel demonstrates it best:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/45baur/videos
  36. @sudden death

    Pray tell, what was left to suck out of Russia in 1999?
     
    Lots and lots of oil&gas.

    You mean the industries which were returned to state control under VVP? Which was then immediately followed by a massive rise in living standards for Russians and paved the way for Russia’s modern resurgence and relative stability

    What people saw in Putin was a massive increase in their wage and life expectancy (and an endless supply of sportsball), the opposition crying about how something was stolen from the people rings hollow given the depravity of what was then the recent past and what appeared to be a return to normalcy in the near future

    Arguing that the rise would’ve come without Putin and the semi-authoritarian system is debatable, arguing that there was no improvement at all since the 90s is outright false
    I think this channel demonstrates it best:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/45baur/videos

  37. @Peter Akuleyev
    Orban is simply a gangster. He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power. He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country, turned most of the economy over to global car manufacturers and depends on EU subsidies to keep the lights on. Why do so called “patriots” continually fall for frauds like Orban, Putin, Erdogan and Trump? None of these people build anything, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries as long as they can. It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.

    He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country

    Could you please help me understand how does this high IQ manifest?

    I am looking at Hungarian macroeconomic indicators, in addition to my direct contact with Hungarian professionals, engineers and businessmen – what type of people fail/do not prosper when the country has been booming in the last decade?

    The brain drain by itself is unavoidable, and has nothing to do with current or even recent leadership. A top of the line doctor, engineer or scientist who is interested in money and international recognition will move to the West. Period. USA can dish out vast sums of money for each countries’ best and brightest, outcompete them with little effort.

  38. @Korenchkin
    Missing the point
    What he was referring to was the lip service that Lee Kwan Yew was paying to Western leaders like Reagan and Thatcher in order to ensure the investments kept coming, instead of verbally attacking them and getting regime change'd
    LKY understood this well, in his writings he talked about being taught in school and even by his parents that the English people were naturally superior to the Chinese and other Asians and given the situation at the time this was easily the popular opinion even among other Singaporean asians (naturally opinions on this matter shifted after the British abandoned Singapore to the Japanese)

    LKY never forgot how to get what he wanted from Western leadership, lots of lip service, people like the current President of Serbia have taken similar lessons to heart
    When discussing these matters it's more important to look at the actions of leaders rather then their rhethoric

    with their English contract law
     
    IMO We're getting dangerously close to calling any system where laws are actually enforced "the English legal system"

    Quality comments Korenchkin, couldn’t agree more. Please keep them coming, you’re one of the best commenters here.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    It pays to state the obvious I guess
    Comment histories of posters on Unz are often as fun to read as the blogs
    Off the top of my head, I'd recommend: Anatoly Karlin, Epigon, Jakko Raipala, melanf, AP, Vishnugupta, Daniel Chieh, AquariusAnon, Polish Perspective, Thulean Friend and thorfinsson

    I don't necessarily agree with their opinions, but I can't deny they're fun to read
  39. @Peter Akuleyev
    Orban is simply a gangster. He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power. He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country, turned most of the economy over to global car manufacturers and depends on EU subsidies to keep the lights on. Why do so called “patriots” continually fall for frauds like Orban, Putin, Erdogan and Trump? None of these people build anything, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries as long as they can. It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.

    Why are highly educated (which is what High IQ basically means) people usually so pro-open borders and socially liberal? This seems to be a common phenomena almost everywhere. If I were to guess I would say it’s because highly educated people tend to work in industries and jobs where they often meet similarly High IQ foreigners, many of whom are often non-white, and they end up with an unrealistic and idealised view of what multiculturalism is like.

    Also, I think some people in Eastern Europe and other poorer countries look at countries like the UK and USA, and assume that multiculturalism and liberalism must be a superior system because they see those as the rich countries with money while they aren’t.

    • Replies: @neutral
    They are so pro open borders (and all other things that the jews decree) because they have to be. They tend to be people with public profiles and thus if they speak out against what people are supposed to believe they will be singled out and destroyed.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala's more direct "disgust" efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.
  40. @Anatoly Karlin

    He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power.
     
    Based.

    As a fan of Putin, I can see why you would find such a leader appealing. Communism and the Slavic mindset are a match made in heaven, the only problems you guys had with it was that the whole operation was run by Jews as opposed to your own kinsmen, which would be okay.

    • Disagree: Korenchkin
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Your comment, purportedly about Putin, has jack all to do with him, his administration or his economics.
  41. @Blinky Bill
    Quality comments Korenchkin, couldn't agree more. Please keep them coming, you're one of the best commenters here.

    It pays to state the obvious I guess
    Comment histories of posters on Unz are often as fun to read as the blogs
    Off the top of my head, I’d recommend: Anatoly Karlin, Epigon, Jakko Raipala, melanf, AP, Vishnugupta, Daniel Chieh, AquariusAnon, Polish Perspective, Thulean Friend and thorfinsson

    I don’t necessarily agree with their opinions, but I can’t deny they’re fun to read

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  42. It’s not surprising Orban is not a devout Christian, nationalism and Christianity don’t exactly go together well. The whole ethos of Christianity is oneness in Christ regardless of anything else. Christians who are also ethnic nationalists generally have some major cognitive dissonance going on to make that work.

    In my experience the vast majority of devout Christians think in a totally deracinated way because that is the ethos of their religion. A lot of nationalist Christians just focus on opposing Islamisation, because then that’s not a racial issue that’s a religious issue and therefore acceptable. Where that theory gets difficult is a lot of black Africans are Christians, so a lot of right wing nationalists just ignore that because then it becomes a racial issue to oppose mass immigration of black Christians. In fact, it’s not unusual to hear right wingers say the West should open its borders to Christians persecuted by Muslims, which would potentially mean hundreds of millions of Africans.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin

    nationalism and Christianity don’t exactly go together well
     
    Unless it's Orthodox Christianity, then it's one of the pillars of nationalisms
  43. @Europe Europa
    It's not surprising Orban is not a devout Christian, nationalism and Christianity don't exactly go together well. The whole ethos of Christianity is oneness in Christ regardless of anything else. Christians who are also ethnic nationalists generally have some major cognitive dissonance going on to make that work.

    In my experience the vast majority of devout Christians think in a totally deracinated way because that is the ethos of their religion. A lot of nationalist Christians just focus on opposing Islamisation, because then that's not a racial issue that's a religious issue and therefore acceptable. Where that theory gets difficult is a lot of black Africans are Christians, so a lot of right wing nationalists just ignore that because then it becomes a racial issue to oppose mass immigration of black Christians. In fact, it's not unusual to hear right wingers say the West should open its borders to Christians persecuted by Muslims, which would potentially mean hundreds of millions of Africans.

    nationalism and Christianity don’t exactly go together well

    Unless it’s Orthodox Christianity, then it’s one of the pillars of nationalisms

    • Agree: Tusk
  44. @Europe Europa
    Why are highly educated (which is what High IQ basically means) people usually so pro-open borders and socially liberal? This seems to be a common phenomena almost everywhere. If I were to guess I would say it's because highly educated people tend to work in industries and jobs where they often meet similarly High IQ foreigners, many of whom are often non-white, and they end up with an unrealistic and idealised view of what multiculturalism is like.

    Also, I think some people in Eastern Europe and other poorer countries look at countries like the UK and USA, and assume that multiculturalism and liberalism must be a superior system because they see those as the rich countries with money while they aren't.

    They are so pro open borders (and all other things that the jews decree) because they have to be. They tend to be people with public profiles and thus if they speak out against what people are supposed to believe they will be singled out and destroyed.

  45. @Just Passing Through
    As a fan of Putin, I can see why you would find such a leader appealing. Communism and the Slavic mindset are a match made in heaven, the only problems you guys had with it was that the whole operation was run by Jews as opposed to your own kinsmen, which would be okay.

    Your comment, purportedly about Putin, has jack all to do with him, his administration or his economics.

  46. Thanks for the good news, Anatoly.

  47. @Europe Europa
    Why are highly educated (which is what High IQ basically means) people usually so pro-open borders and socially liberal? This seems to be a common phenomena almost everywhere. If I were to guess I would say it's because highly educated people tend to work in industries and jobs where they often meet similarly High IQ foreigners, many of whom are often non-white, and they end up with an unrealistic and idealised view of what multiculturalism is like.

    Also, I think some people in Eastern Europe and other poorer countries look at countries like the UK and USA, and assume that multiculturalism and liberalism must be a superior system because they see those as the rich countries with money while they aren't.

    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala’s more direct “disgust” efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.

    • Replies: @A123

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.
     
    Here are charts from AE on this very point: (1)

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/anxious.png

    Low IQ Globalists are very neurotic. Low IQ also explains why they believe obviously fake non-science such as "Global Warming" and histrionic WUHAN-19 myths. The SJW tribe is insular and closed minded. Anyone daring to contradict SJW theology with the truth is subject to threat by the Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa.

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/calm.png


    High IQ Populists are calm. Superior intelligence allows them to accurately assess the risk of WUHAN-19. Thus, Populists respond in a rational manner, grounded in science and physical reality.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://www.unz.com/anepigone/loony-libs-callous-cons/

    , @AP
    I’m curious how universal this may be. Modern “WEIRD” societies emphasize openness and downgrade disgust, so it seems to follow that more intelligent people, with greater cortical control, will be more motivated to override their natural instincts regarding disgust.

    However, one can imagine other societies or time periods where this control will be directed to override natural instincts other that disgust (such as sexual ones) while maintaining less openness and greater disgust than does the modern Western society. I don’t think that morally upright Victorian elites were less intelligent than are modern hedonistic ones.

    So perhaps greater intelligence is correlated with greater control over natural instincts in general, but the exact ones that are controlled vary according to specific cultures.
    , @iffen
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala’s more direct “disgust” efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    What if one's higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the "best" option?

    Both are possible, don't you think?
    , @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    Why do I have both high IQ and high disgust/tribalism? It's a serious question, for instance when I look at the high IQ whites around me they are basically out of a test tube - incapable of critical thinking and more than likely would die in the wild.

    How did whites go so wrong? It seems to me that only around 5% have the ability to survive in Darwinian conditions. Did the centuries of prosperity just have a massive dysgenic effect?
    , @128
    Can you explain why the high IQ historical Confucian elite in China and Korea, if you define high IQ as book smarts, had a very low openness to experience, for example burning the ships of the Zheng He expedition, and banning all such expeditions in the future, coupled with a high IQ, which seems to be paradoxical in nature in comparison to the present day? And Confucianism, for a high IQ culture, also is somewhat sexually prudish, and also ranks low on hedonism.
  48. @Dmitry

    neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation
     
    Neoliberal is a modern day word. It was recently invented to refer to the rebirth (or becoming fashionable again) of classical liberal ideas.

    The reason they need this prefix, is because of the meaning of word "liberal" was also recently changed, and had begun to be used to refer to left-wing ideas, which are often opposing policies of the classical liberal political leaders like Gladstone.


    not the economic definition.
     
    There's no separate "economic definition".

    "Neoliberalism" refers (although usually used by left-wing opponents) to a recent political-economic ideology that became fashionable with Friedrich von Hayek, Milton Friedman, et al, as well people inspired by classical liberal ideas they admire.

    These ideas are compatible with different levels of democracy - for example, Friedman and Hayek admired democratic Reagan and Thatcher, but Friedman also admired undemocratic Pinochet and Lee Kuan Yew.

    Obviously, the latter have far more negative and undemocratic aspects to them, but in the context of the primitive countries they inherited, we can be more understanding of their undemocratic sides. (They did not inherit advanced European countries, but their mission was converting third world countries to developed ones).


    all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc.
     
    This is a caricature of liberals, in the recent leftwing sense of the word "liberal" (as opposed to the traditional understanding of "liberal"). In the modern context, there's no reason to add "neo" to the word, unless perhaps as clickbait for illiterate people that know "Neo" as a character from the Matrix (which trashy film is also referred to in the post above).

    They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.
     
    Lol, Mishustin as Prime Minister now - i.e. resource extraction economy with aspiring neoliberal wrapping paper.

    Were you educated in economics in the 1980s and never read a book since? For me, neoliberalism means the transfer of resources to the FIRE sector from the pockets of the masses and middle class, under the phoney guise of ‘free’ markets, and undermining of all aspects of economic nationalism. Its prime enemy is nationalism, not leftism.

    I doubt Thatcher and Reagan cared about Hayek, even if the former may have read him.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    "Neoliberalism" is usually used with a negative connotation, because it was the word which leftwing writers use to describe people who self-describe as "classical liberals".

    Obviously people who are "neoliberal" prefer to use "classical liberal" - as it sounds more prestigious. So you only hear this word "neoliberal" with a negative connotation. Also "neo" is usually used in a negative connotation - perhaps because Latin prefix sounds scary for people.

    If the writer was just saying something like "bourgeois reactionary", then it would be too obvious that they were not objectively describing the policy they criticize.
  49. @Daniel Chieh
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala's more direct "disgust" efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.

    Here are charts from AE on this very point: (1)

    Low IQ Globalists are very neurotic. Low IQ also explains why they believe obviously fake non-science such as “Global Warming” and histrionic WUHAN-19 myths. The SJW tribe is insular and closed minded. Anyone daring to contradict SJW theology with the truth is subject to threat by the Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa.

    High IQ Populists are calm. Superior intelligence allows them to accurately assess the risk of WUHAN-19. Thus, Populists respond in a rational manner, grounded in science and physical reality.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://www.unz.com/anepigone/loony-libs-callous-cons/

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_personality

    Neuroticism has been found to have a reliable negative association with g(r=-.33).[18] However, other researchers have recently reported a lower coefficient of .09 for general mental ability and emotional stability. Although these studies have some differences, they all indicate that intelligence increases with a decrease in negative emotion.

     

    Your data set is completely insane and makes a number of unfounded assumptions. Indeed, the hyperbolic emotional language goes well what I indicated(and which I'm glad to provide data for: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(11)00289-2).

    Here we show that this functional correlate of political attitudes has a counterpart in brain structure. In a large sample of young adults, we related self-reported political attitudes to gray matter volume using structural MRI. We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala.
     
    An uncharitable(and I think also exaggerated and inaccurate) exploration of it is Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds

    Someone who is consistently liberal but intelligent would be someone like Bill Gates, rather than a Trigglypuff which would self-identify as an extreme leftist. Even someone who is genuinely a destroyer of countries, like George Soros(and I've read some of his writings) tends toward a calm and consistent effort - unfortunately, a calm and consistently negative effort, but accomplishments both for good and ill don't come from nothing.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    I should add that I believe that Mr. Karlin has also written about this, both on the right's human capital issue:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/

    And of certain populations(especially Asian) in their (greatly) lowered tendency toward conceiving or thinking of the novel:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/salon-demographics/

  50. @A123

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.
     
    Here are charts from AE on this very point: (1)

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/anxious.png

    Low IQ Globalists are very neurotic. Low IQ also explains why they believe obviously fake non-science such as "Global Warming" and histrionic WUHAN-19 myths. The SJW tribe is insular and closed minded. Anyone daring to contradict SJW theology with the truth is subject to threat by the Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa.

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/calm.png


    High IQ Populists are calm. Superior intelligence allows them to accurately assess the risk of WUHAN-19. Thus, Populists respond in a rational manner, grounded in science and physical reality.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://www.unz.com/anepigone/loony-libs-callous-cons/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_personality

    Neuroticism has been found to have a reliable negative association with g(r=-.33).[18] However, other researchers have recently reported a lower coefficient of .09 for general mental ability and emotional stability. Although these studies have some differences, they all indicate that intelligence increases with a decrease in negative emotion.

    Your data set is completely insane and makes a number of unfounded assumptions. Indeed, the hyperbolic emotional language goes well what I indicated(and which I’m glad to provide data for: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(11)00289-2).

    Here we show that this functional correlate of political attitudes has a counterpart in brain structure. In a large sample of young adults, we related self-reported political attitudes to gray matter volume using structural MRI. We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala.

    An uncharitable(and I think also exaggerated and inaccurate) exploration of it is Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds

    Someone who is consistently liberal but intelligent would be someone like Bill Gates, rather than a Trigglypuff which would self-identify as an extreme leftist. Even someone who is genuinely a destroyer of countries, like George Soros(and I’ve read some of his writings) tends toward a calm and consistent effort – unfortunately, a calm and consistently negative effort, but accomplishments both for good and ill don’t come from nothing.

    • Replies: @A123

    Your data set is completely insane and makes a number of unfounded assumptions.
     
    The data set is not mine. One of the top authors on Unz.com, AUDACIOUS EPIGONE, created the charts.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/loony-libs-callous-cons/


    Indeed, the hyperbolic emotional language goes well what I indicate
     
    You introduced the term tribalism ... Let me refresh your memory:

    #47 by DC: ... higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

     

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe. Being a member of the SJW Globalist tribe requires blind obedience to its articles of faith.

    Hungary's Orban is taking rational and restrained steps to protect his people from the stupid, yet highly aggressive, SJW Globalist tribe.


    Someone who is consistently liberal but intelligent would be someone like Bill Gates
     
    In any large tribal population, IQ will have a distribution. It is almost inevitable that there will be a few Higher IQ, SJW Globalists in the distribution tail. Gates and Soros are good examples.

    However, the mean IQ for the SJW Globalists is abysmally low. One of the key dogmas of SJW Globalist, Elite 1% theology is Science Denial. As a result the SJW Globalist, Low IQ tribe is prone to over react with hysterical levels of emotion and propose irrational solutions that defy physical reality.

    For example, SJW Globalist theology insists that high-availability hydrocarbon power can be economically replaced with intermittent/low-availability solar and wind power. Anyone with even an average level of intelligence can easily find multiple glaring flaws with this anti-science, dogmatic religious edict.

    PEACE 😷

  51. @A123

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.
     
    Here are charts from AE on this very point: (1)

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/anxious.png

    Low IQ Globalists are very neurotic. Low IQ also explains why they believe obviously fake non-science such as "Global Warming" and histrionic WUHAN-19 myths. The SJW tribe is insular and closed minded. Anyone daring to contradict SJW theology with the truth is subject to threat by the Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa.

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/calm.png


    High IQ Populists are calm. Superior intelligence allows them to accurately assess the risk of WUHAN-19. Thus, Populists respond in a rational manner, grounded in science and physical reality.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://www.unz.com/anepigone/loony-libs-callous-cons/

    I should add that I believe that Mr. Karlin has also written about this, both on the right’s human capital issue:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/

    And of certain populations(especially Asian) in their (greatly) lowered tendency toward conceiving or thinking of the novel:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/salon-demographics/

    • Replies: @128
    Maybe the tradeoff with demociding the high IQ, high openness to experience liberals like what happened in ancient China and the Sinosphere, in return for slightly buggier software and jet engines that are 5 years behind in terms of technology, and electric cars that have 10 percent less range than Teslas is quite acceptable, or slightly more boring architecture, if that is what you are trying to get at?
  52. The West bombs Syria, Libya, etc, to smithereens and then wonders why millions of refugees are flooding into Europe. “Close the borders!” they arrogantly tell Turkey as if Turkey is to blame. Turkey is not to blame for this, why should they bear the burden of the West’s war crimes?

    Not all European nationalists are arrogant, war-mongering hypocrites but most are. The sort of people who complain most about refugees flooding into Europe are mostly the same people who are cheer on the US and European militaries in their invasions and bombing campaigns in the Middle East. Any true nationalist would want total disengagement from the Middle East, if Western countries didn’t bomb these countries and murder and displace people there then they would have no moral obligation towards them but the fact is they do. Yet I’ve almost never heard a self-proclaimed nationalist suggest that the West should disengage from the Middle East, the vast majority enthusiastically support war on the Middle East and then act shocked and utterly bemused at the predictable consequences.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    The West bombs Syria, Libya, etc, to smithereens and then wonders why millions of refugees are flooding into Europe. “Close the borders!” they arrogantly tell Turkey as if Turkey is to blame. Turkey is not to blame for this, why should they bear the burden of the West’s war crimes?
     
    Turkey played and continues to play an outsized role in stoking the fire of civil war in Syria, actually way bigger than Western Europe (though the Europeans are not fully innocent either), so your argument is based on a false premise.
  53. @blank-misgivings
    Were you educated in economics in the 1980s and never read a book since? For me, neoliberalism means the transfer of resources to the FIRE sector from the pockets of the masses and middle class, under the phoney guise of 'free' markets, and undermining of all aspects of economic nationalism. Its prime enemy is nationalism, not leftism.

    I doubt Thatcher and Reagan cared about Hayek, even if the former may have read him.

    “Neoliberalism” is usually used with a negative connotation, because it was the word which leftwing writers use to describe people who self-describe as “classical liberals”.

    Obviously people who are “neoliberal” prefer to use “classical liberal” – as it sounds more prestigious. So you only hear this word “neoliberal” with a negative connotation. Also “neo” is usually used in a negative connotation – perhaps because Latin prefix sounds scary for people.

    If the writer was just saying something like “bourgeois reactionary”, then it would be too obvious that they were not objectively describing the policy they criticize.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    When I was at university, I knew many people regime boot-lickers who would call themselves 'neoliberal' to obtain a patina of edginess by identifying with something people hated; they were similar to the sort of person who would describe themselves as a Blairite and defend the Iraq War.
  54. @Korenchkin
    Missing the point
    What he was referring to was the lip service that Lee Kwan Yew was paying to Western leaders like Reagan and Thatcher in order to ensure the investments kept coming, instead of verbally attacking them and getting regime change'd
    LKY understood this well, in his writings he talked about being taught in school and even by his parents that the English people were naturally superior to the Chinese and other Asians and given the situation at the time this was easily the popular opinion even among other Singaporean asians (naturally opinions on this matter shifted after the British abandoned Singapore to the Japanese)

    LKY never forgot how to get what he wanted from Western leadership, lots of lip service, people like the current President of Serbia have taken similar lessons to heart
    When discussing these matters it's more important to look at the actions of leaders rather then their rhethoric

    with their English contract law
     
    IMO We're getting dangerously close to calling any system where laws are actually enforced "the English legal system"

    Korenchkin I agree with your post, except the first and last sentence. I’m not sure how this is disagreeing with me, since I read it and agree with this text.

    Just the last sentence – Singapore has an English legal system, in the area relevant for companies and businesses who want to work there. It’s one of its main attractions.

  55. AP says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala's more direct "disgust" efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.

    I’m curious how universal this may be. Modern “WEIRD” societies emphasize openness and downgrade disgust, so it seems to follow that more intelligent people, with greater cortical control, will be more motivated to override their natural instincts regarding disgust.

    However, one can imagine other societies or time periods where this control will be directed to override natural instincts other that disgust (such as sexual ones) while maintaining less openness and greater disgust than does the modern Western society. I don’t think that morally upright Victorian elites were less intelligent than are modern hedonistic ones.

    So perhaps greater intelligence is correlated with greater control over natural instincts in general, but the exact ones that are controlled vary according to specific cultures.

    • Agree: The Big Red Scary
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Seems possible.

    Newton avoided all sexual contact but was an avid and devoted occultist. Victorian elite avoided open sexuality and excitation in general(though I'm not so sure in secret, given the wide solicitation of brothels and vast quantities of erotica produced during era), but it was also the flowering of all manner of weirdnesss: spiritualists, ectoplasma, seances, and so on.
    , @Korenchkin
    A lot of it is just a matter of discipline, one can be successful in school yet be a moron in regular life simply by having correct working habits
    Ofcourse you don't see this often since unintelligent parents don't usually bother to instil proper discipline in their children

    Nonetheless, very interesting idea AP
  56. @Dmitry
    "Neoliberalism" is usually used with a negative connotation, because it was the word which leftwing writers use to describe people who self-describe as "classical liberals".

    Obviously people who are "neoliberal" prefer to use "classical liberal" - as it sounds more prestigious. So you only hear this word "neoliberal" with a negative connotation. Also "neo" is usually used in a negative connotation - perhaps because Latin prefix sounds scary for people.

    If the writer was just saying something like "bourgeois reactionary", then it would be too obvious that they were not objectively describing the policy they criticize.

    When I was at university, I knew many people regime boot-lickers who would call themselves ‘neoliberal’ to obtain a patina of edginess by identifying with something people hated; they were similar to the sort of person who would describe themselves as a Blairite and defend the Iraq War.

  57. @AP
    I’m curious how universal this may be. Modern “WEIRD” societies emphasize openness and downgrade disgust, so it seems to follow that more intelligent people, with greater cortical control, will be more motivated to override their natural instincts regarding disgust.

    However, one can imagine other societies or time periods where this control will be directed to override natural instincts other that disgust (such as sexual ones) while maintaining less openness and greater disgust than does the modern Western society. I don’t think that morally upright Victorian elites were less intelligent than are modern hedonistic ones.

    So perhaps greater intelligence is correlated with greater control over natural instincts in general, but the exact ones that are controlled vary according to specific cultures.

    Seems possible.

    Newton avoided all sexual contact but was an avid and devoted occultist. Victorian elite avoided open sexuality and excitation in general(though I’m not so sure in secret, given the wide solicitation of brothels and vast quantities of erotica produced during era), but it was also the flowering of all manner of weirdnesss: spiritualists, ectoplasma, seances, and so on.

    • Replies: @utu
    Voltaire wrote that Newton owed his career “not to infinitesimal calculus and gravitation but to the beauty of his niece.”
  58. I am getting tired of people ascribing magical properties to Singapore leadership.
    In the same manner I am very tired of Switzerland meme.

    There is nothing magical in having the most strategic location in the world’s busiest straits and Great Powers being interested in maintaining your status.

    The more you dabble in absurd theories and ignore the obvious, the funnier it gets.

    • Agree: Korenchkin
    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    The same applies to the Gulf States but they're not Singapore
    , @songbird
    LKY is a popular figure because he believed in HBD, and could not easily be compared to Hitler, since he was a non-white leader of a sort of multicult country.

    I believe LKY wasn't even that knowledgeable about HBD, if I recall, he thought Chinese IQ higher than it actually is. But, then again, maybe Singaporeans are smarter, and he was basing it on local info.

    I like LKY, but I doubt that his leadership was a significant factor. Singapore is first of all explained by demographics, next by geography. Leadership is kind of a function of those two factors. And I'm not sure it should be praised too much, since it is an IQ shredder, though it is otherwise admirable in many ways.

    Some people call Djibouti the "Singapore of Africa." It has multiple military bases of foreign nations, and a fair port and good location. But, if one leaves the port and goes inland a mile or two, there is a fair risk of murder and rape.

    Iskander is right next to Singapore, and is still not Singapore.
    , @reiner Tor
    Location is not everything.
  59. @AP
    I’m curious how universal this may be. Modern “WEIRD” societies emphasize openness and downgrade disgust, so it seems to follow that more intelligent people, with greater cortical control, will be more motivated to override their natural instincts regarding disgust.

    However, one can imagine other societies or time periods where this control will be directed to override natural instincts other that disgust (such as sexual ones) while maintaining less openness and greater disgust than does the modern Western society. I don’t think that morally upright Victorian elites were less intelligent than are modern hedonistic ones.

    So perhaps greater intelligence is correlated with greater control over natural instincts in general, but the exact ones that are controlled vary according to specific cultures.

    A lot of it is just a matter of discipline, one can be successful in school yet be a moron in regular life simply by having correct working habits
    Ofcourse you don’t see this often since unintelligent parents don’t usually bother to instil proper discipline in their children

    Nonetheless, very interesting idea AP

    • Thanks: AP
  60. @AltSerrice
    When AK refers to neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation, not the economic definition.

    Modern neoliberals are more of an all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc. They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.

    When AK refers to neolibs he means it in the modern day interpretation, not the economic definition.

    Modern neoliberals are more of an all-encompassing ideology than an economic strategy. Social liberalism, globalism, disdain for tradition and nation, etc. They especially dislike Russia for a variety of reasons.

    Yes. Neoliberalism is best seen as unconditional surrender to the postwar liberal world order. Any sovereignty that matters is surrendered to the institutions of “the international community” (in effect the US State Department) or “the international markets” (in effect also a hostile foreign actor).

  61. @Epigon
    I am getting tired of people ascribing magical properties to Singapore leadership.
    In the same manner I am very tired of Switzerland meme.

    There is nothing magical in having the most strategic location in the world’s busiest straits and Great Powers being interested in maintaining your status.

    The more you dabble in absurd theories and ignore the obvious, the funnier it gets.

    The same applies to the Gulf States but they’re not Singapore

    • Replies: @Epigon
    No, it doesn’t.
    Hormuz is a single commodity straits, it is most certainly not vital to many countries the way Malacca and Singapore Straits are.
    Not to mention the factor of historicity and heritage.

    Furthermore, Malacca/Singapore has vastly more yearly shipping, look up the numbers.

    Finally - do you see the same treatment of Singapore by Great Powers be provided to Gulf Arabs and Iran? Are you for real?

    Sometimes I get the feeling that people are disconnected from chronology and causality - was Singapore a world leading location in the past, with practically the same demographics?

  62. @Daniel Chieh
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala's more direct "disgust" efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.

    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala’s more direct “disgust” efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    What if one’s higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the “best” option?

    Both are possible, don’t you think?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Entirely possible and its not like pro-tribalists are always lacking in IQ. John Derbyshire isn't dim at all, for example. In general, high IQ helps you justify anything you want to believe.

    A tendency for or another of a population group having a trait is not an exclusive sentence of their behavior or positions.
    , @Matra
    What if one’s higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the “best” option?

    You will lose status if you speak out about it. Since people care more about status than the truth that means those with status to lose - usually smart people - are less likely to publicly advocate tribalism leaving low status, low IQ rabble-rousers to make the case. That is turn reinforces the public perception that tribalists are losers.
    , @dfordoom

    What if one’s higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the “best” option?
     
    It's theoretically possible. In practice it's very uncommon.

    In practice whites who advocate tribalism for whites tend to be pretty low IQ.

    Another problem with IQ is that high IQ seems to make it easy for people to accept ideas that sound great in theory but are in practice completely unworkable. High IQ people love theories. They dislike reality. Because reality is messy and lacks the intellectual elegance of theory.
  63. @Daniel Chieh
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala's more direct "disgust" efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.

    Why do I have both high IQ and high disgust/tribalism? It’s a serious question, for instance when I look at the high IQ whites around me they are basically out of a test tube – incapable of critical thinking and more than likely would die in the wild.

    How did whites go so wrong? It seems to me that only around 5% have the ability to survive in Darwinian conditions. Did the centuries of prosperity just have a massive dysgenic effect?

    • Replies: @SFG
    Hard men, good times, soft men, bad times...

    It's a meme, but it's been known for ages. The Chinese described the dynastic cycle...
  64. @iffen
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala’s more direct “disgust” efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    What if one's higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the "best" option?

    Both are possible, don't you think?

    Entirely possible and its not like pro-tribalists are always lacking in IQ. John Derbyshire isn’t dim at all, for example. In general, high IQ helps you justify anything you want to believe.

    A tendency for or another of a population group having a trait is not an exclusive sentence of their behavior or positions.

    • Replies: @iffen
    A tendency for or another of a population group having a trait is not an exclusive sentence of their behavior or positions.

    The group or an individual from the group?

    In general, high IQ helps you justify anything you want to believe.

    Is nationalism irrational or not?

    Are conservatives, rightists and dissidents knuckle-dragging troglodytes or not?

    , @dfordoom

    In general, high IQ helps you justify anything you want to believe.
     
    An excellent point.
  65. @Epigon
    I am getting tired of people ascribing magical properties to Singapore leadership.
    In the same manner I am very tired of Switzerland meme.

    There is nothing magical in having the most strategic location in the world’s busiest straits and Great Powers being interested in maintaining your status.

    The more you dabble in absurd theories and ignore the obvious, the funnier it gets.

    LKY is a popular figure because he believed in HBD, and could not easily be compared to Hitler, since he was a non-white leader of a sort of multicult country.

    I believe LKY wasn’t even that knowledgeable about HBD, if I recall, he thought Chinese IQ higher than it actually is. But, then again, maybe Singaporeans are smarter, and he was basing it on local info.

    I like LKY, but I doubt that his leadership was a significant factor. Singapore is first of all explained by demographics, next by geography. Leadership is kind of a function of those two factors. And I’m not sure it should be praised too much, since it is an IQ shredder, though it is otherwise admirable in many ways.

    Some people call Djibouti the “Singapore of Africa.” It has multiple military bases of foreign nations, and a fair port and good location. But, if one leaves the port and goes inland a mile or two, there is a fair risk of murder and rape.

    Iskander is right next to Singapore, and is still not Singapore.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
    LKY once said in an interview for his book release;

    The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow,
     
    It seems to me that if implemented correctly, multi-racialism can work and needn't be a retardant to prosperity, but it requires leaders of good faith and no (((troublemakers))) to stir things up.

    However this ultimately stifles freedom, Singapore has always been multi-racial but I doubt the Chinese would have allowed it to happen if it wasn't such in the first place.


    On an side note, there could be a new Singapore in the making, but this time in Pakistan.

    http://www.ipcgwadar.com/international-port-city-gwadar/

    www.thenews.com.pk/amp/238644-500000-Chinese-professionals-expected-in-Gwadar-by-2023
    , @Just Passing Through
    LKY once said in an interview for his book release;

    The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow,
     
    It seems to me that if implemented correctly, multi-racialism can work and needn't be a retardant to prosperity, but it requires leaders of good faith and no (((troublemakers))) to stir things up.

    However this ultimately stifles freedom, Singapore has always been multi-racial but I doubt the Chinese would have allowed it to happen if it wasn't such in the first place.


    On an side note, there could be a new Singapore in the making, but this time in Pakistan.

    http://www.ipcgwadar.com/international-port-city-gwadar/

    www.thenews.com.pk/amp/238644-500000-Chinese-professionals-expected-in-Gwadar-by-2023
  66. @songbird
    LKY is a popular figure because he believed in HBD, and could not easily be compared to Hitler, since he was a non-white leader of a sort of multicult country.

    I believe LKY wasn't even that knowledgeable about HBD, if I recall, he thought Chinese IQ higher than it actually is. But, then again, maybe Singaporeans are smarter, and he was basing it on local info.

    I like LKY, but I doubt that his leadership was a significant factor. Singapore is first of all explained by demographics, next by geography. Leadership is kind of a function of those two factors. And I'm not sure it should be praised too much, since it is an IQ shredder, though it is otherwise admirable in many ways.

    Some people call Djibouti the "Singapore of Africa." It has multiple military bases of foreign nations, and a fair port and good location. But, if one leaves the port and goes inland a mile or two, there is a fair risk of murder and rape.

    Iskander is right next to Singapore, and is still not Singapore.

    LKY once said in an interview for his book release;

    The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow,

    It seems to me that if implemented correctly, multi-racialism can work and needn’t be a retardant to prosperity, but it requires leaders of good faith and no (((troublemakers))) to stir things up.

    However this ultimately stifles freedom, Singapore has always been multi-racial but I doubt the Chinese would have allowed it to happen if it wasn’t such in the first place.

    On an side note, there could be a new Singapore in the making, but this time in Pakistan.

    http://www.ipcgwadar.com/international-port-city-gwadar/

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/amp/238644-500000-Chinese-professionals-expected-in-Gwadar-by-2023

    • Replies: @songbird

    Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher.
     
    Thanks, that is exactly the quote I was trying to remember. I think the figure in the book was 106, so not a huge difference, but it would have huge implications on the right tail.

    Singapore has always been multi-racial but I doubt the Chinese would have allowed it to happen if it wasn’t such in the first place.
     
    IMO, the multiracial nature of Singapore is kind of a positive for it, since, if it were 99% Chinese, it would be seen as a Chinese ethnostate, and probably not tolerated. And, anyway, the Chinese are able to maintain their majority by selective immigration.

    In some ways, it is kind of an ideal multicult state, since grievance politics seems to not be tolerated.

    That's interesting about Gwadar. I had not heard of it. I've been thinking of Neom as the Saudi attempt to copy Dubai, but maybe all these things are really based on Singapore.
  67. @songbird
    LKY is a popular figure because he believed in HBD, and could not easily be compared to Hitler, since he was a non-white leader of a sort of multicult country.

    I believe LKY wasn't even that knowledgeable about HBD, if I recall, he thought Chinese IQ higher than it actually is. But, then again, maybe Singaporeans are smarter, and he was basing it on local info.

    I like LKY, but I doubt that his leadership was a significant factor. Singapore is first of all explained by demographics, next by geography. Leadership is kind of a function of those two factors. And I'm not sure it should be praised too much, since it is an IQ shredder, though it is otherwise admirable in many ways.

    Some people call Djibouti the "Singapore of Africa." It has multiple military bases of foreign nations, and a fair port and good location. But, if one leaves the port and goes inland a mile or two, there is a fair risk of murder and rape.

    Iskander is right next to Singapore, and is still not Singapore.

    LKY once said in an interview for his book release;

    The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow,

    It seems to me that if implemented correctly, multi-racialism can work and needn’t be a retardant to prosperity, but it requires leaders of good faith and no (((troublemakers))) to stir things up.

    However this ultimately stifles freedom, Singapore has always been multi-racial but I doubt the Chinese would have allowed it to happen if it wasn’t such in the first place.

    On an side note, there could be a new Singapore in the making, but this time in Pakistan.

    http://www.ipcgwadar.com/international-port-city-gwadar/

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/amp/238644-500000-Chinese-professionals-expected-in-Gwadar-by-2023

  68. @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    Why do I have both high IQ and high disgust/tribalism? It's a serious question, for instance when I look at the high IQ whites around me they are basically out of a test tube - incapable of critical thinking and more than likely would die in the wild.

    How did whites go so wrong? It seems to me that only around 5% have the ability to survive in Darwinian conditions. Did the centuries of prosperity just have a massive dysgenic effect?

    Hard men, good times, soft men, bad times…

    It’s a meme, but it’s been known for ages. The Chinese described the dynastic cycle…

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    So basically I'm just a genetic "freak" - liberal, upper middle class upbringing, yet high IQ, high disgust, highly tribal individual.

    I remember feeling resentment at 'foreign' groups long before I even knew what they were - for instance I found Muslims strange even as a 6 year old. Same with sports teams, as a young boy I was extremely tribal and loved defeating the other "tribes" (sports teams).

    Not trying to bring too much attention to myself I just find it odd how I (and others here) managed to swim upstream in the constant barrage of anti white, and leftist propaganda to get where we are now. How did we end up here and how can we guide others here? If it is truly genetic then most whites are just going to die off.
  69. @Peter Akuleyev
    Orban is simply a gangster. He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power. He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country, turned most of the economy over to global car manufacturers and depends on EU subsidies to keep the lights on. Why do so called “patriots” continually fall for frauds like Orban, Putin, Erdogan and Trump? None of these people build anything, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries as long as they can. It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.

    Well, Hungary has had genuinely interesting results with their aim to increase the birthrate. Not only have they dragged TFR up to 1.5 (from the 1.2 constant throughout the 90’s and 00’s) and kept it there for the last few years – it looks like the consistent efforts are now paying off with a further increase. January 2020 saw a monthly TFR of 1.60, first time this has been seen since early 90’s.

    Marriage numbers are at the same numbers last seen in the 80’s

    • Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    Funny, I made a comment on this exact topic on AE's blog today:

    Fertility rate has improved under him. From 1.25 to 1.51 last year. But the real promising statistic is the number of marriages. From the Hungarian Central Statistical Office for 2019 data:

    65,300 couples got married, which was significantly, 28% higher or 14,472 couples more compared to a year earlier. The number of marriages increased by 0.6% in February-March, by 8.5% in April-May and by 16% in June, compared to a year earlier. This upward trend continued: in July-September there was a 33% increase on average, in October 65% and in November 116% more couples got married. In December the tempo of the growth moderated, but still 54% more people entered into matrimony than a year earlier. In total, the number of marriages in 2019 has been the highest value since 1990.
     
    2020 is off to an even better start:

    The number of marriages went up substantially; 2,863 couples got married, which was nearly twice as much, or 1,412 more than the figure in January 2019. The number of marriages concluded in January 2020 is the highest value measured in January since 1982.
     
    We’ll have to watch. Russia, Belarus, and Poland all saw a temporary increase in fertility rates but are now going down again. Hungary seems to be taking a smart, eugenic approach (women with 4 children pay no taxes), and is promoting a wholesome culture rather than just throwing money around. Let’s see what happens.
  70. @Matt Forney
    The E.U. doesn't like it when national governments implement rule by decree in emergencies.

    But when the E.U. imposes unelected "technocrat" austerity governments on economically ravaged member states---like they did in Italy and Greece a decade ago, and de facto did to Ireland in 2011 by prohibiting the government from calling an election before passing a budget---that's just fine and dandy.

    Apparently Belgium have done pretty much the same thing.

    The Special Authorization Law grants special powers to the government to manage the health crisis and its economic consequences for a period of minimum three and maximum six months. Measures related to the crisis and its economic consequences can now be taken without consulting the parliament first.

    The Guardian has a more anodyne, nothing-to-see-here approach.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/belgium-hands-powers-to-caretaker-pm-sophie-wilmes-to-fight-covid-19

    “The Wilmès government, composed of two liberal and one Christian Democratic party, will now be supported by seven other parties across the political spectrum, save the far right and far left.

    These parties have agreed to award the government special powers to sidestep the normal legislative process in order to deal with the impact of coronavirus on Belgium’s health system and economy. ”

  71. @Just Passing Through
    LKY once said in an interview for his book release;

    The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow,
     
    It seems to me that if implemented correctly, multi-racialism can work and needn't be a retardant to prosperity, but it requires leaders of good faith and no (((troublemakers))) to stir things up.

    However this ultimately stifles freedom, Singapore has always been multi-racial but I doubt the Chinese would have allowed it to happen if it wasn't such in the first place.


    On an side note, there could be a new Singapore in the making, but this time in Pakistan.

    http://www.ipcgwadar.com/international-port-city-gwadar/

    www.thenews.com.pk/amp/238644-500000-Chinese-professionals-expected-in-Gwadar-by-2023

    Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher.

    Thanks, that is exactly the quote I was trying to remember. I think the figure in the book was 106, so not a huge difference, but it would have huge implications on the right tail.

    Singapore has always been multi-racial but I doubt the Chinese would have allowed it to happen if it wasn’t such in the first place.

    IMO, the multiracial nature of Singapore is kind of a positive for it, since, if it were 99% Chinese, it would be seen as a Chinese ethnostate, and probably not tolerated. And, anyway, the Chinese are able to maintain their majority by selective immigration.

    In some ways, it is kind of an ideal multicult state, since grievance politics seems to not be tolerated.

    That’s interesting about Gwadar. I had not heard of it. I’ve been thinking of Neom as the Saudi attempt to copy Dubai, but maybe all these things are really based on Singapore.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
    The planning of the city seems to be in the early stages and might never transpire, but the Chinese need a port to circumvent a possible Indian Navy blockade of their oil imports in a hypothetical war. Gwadar port is a perfect locations.

    One has to wonder what the Pakistanis will think of a Chinese colony in their country though, the report says 500,000 Chinese could move in. For comparison 1901 census of British India showed a population of 294 million with around 170,000 Europeans.

    I do wonder about of people are right about Chinese colonising these Their World countries, the West is certainly on decline and in the process of becoming the Third World itself. The West will not have the power projection to stop the Chinese.
  72. @Pumblechook
    Well, Hungary has had genuinely interesting results with their aim to increase the birthrate. Not only have they dragged TFR up to 1.5 (from the 1.2 constant throughout the 90’s and 00’s) and kept it there for the last few years - it looks like the consistent efforts are now paying off with a further increase. January 2020 saw a monthly TFR of 1.60, first time this has been seen since early 90’s.

    Marriage numbers are at the same numbers last seen in the 80’s

    Funny, I made a comment on this exact topic on AE’s blog today:

    Fertility rate has improved under him. From 1.25 to 1.51 last year. But the real promising statistic is the number of marriages. From the Hungarian Central Statistical Office for 2019 data:

    65,300 couples got married, which was significantly, 28% higher or 14,472 couples more compared to a year earlier. The number of marriages increased by 0.6% in February-March, by 8.5% in April-May and by 16% in June, compared to a year earlier. This upward trend continued: in July-September there was a 33% increase on average, in October 65% and in November 116% more couples got married. In December the tempo of the growth moderated, but still 54% more people entered into matrimony than a year earlier. In total, the number of marriages in 2019 has been the highest value since 1990.

    2020 is off to an even better start:

    The number of marriages went up substantially; 2,863 couples got married, which was nearly twice as much, or 1,412 more than the figure in January 2019. The number of marriages concluded in January 2020 is the highest value measured in January since 1982.

    We’ll have to watch. Russia, Belarus, and Poland all saw a temporary increase in fertility rates but are now going down again. Hungary seems to be taking a smart, eugenic approach (women with 4 children pay no taxes), and is promoting a wholesome culture rather than just throwing money around. Let’s see what happens.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Hungary seems to be taking a smart, eugenic approach (women with 4 children pay no taxes)"

    Women with four children in the UK tend not to pay any taxes either, because they live on welfare. But it's a great idea, because it's a hell of an incentive for an above average earner who hopefully has above average intelligence. I raised four kids with a stay at home mum paying the identical marginal (top) rate of tax that a billionaire would have paid (40%).
  73. @SFG
    Hard men, good times, soft men, bad times...

    It's a meme, but it's been known for ages. The Chinese described the dynastic cycle...

    So basically I’m just a genetic “freak” – liberal, upper middle class upbringing, yet high IQ, high disgust, highly tribal individual.

    I remember feeling resentment at ‘foreign’ groups long before I even knew what they were – for instance I found Muslims strange even as a 6 year old. Same with sports teams, as a young boy I was extremely tribal and loved defeating the other “tribes” (sports teams).

    Not trying to bring too much attention to myself I just find it odd how I (and others here) managed to swim upstream in the constant barrage of anti white, and leftist propaganda to get where we are now. How did we end up here and how can we guide others here? If it is truly genetic then most whites are just going to die off.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
    Surveys are not a good indication of how tribal people are as there is a phenomenon called "social desirability bias" in which people tend to answer to surveys in a way that they think will land them in the good books of "society" (and who determines the zeitgeist of "society", yep, Hollywood, newspapers and advertising companies)

    Interestingly, this phenomenon also occurs when the survey is anonymous, so it even carries over to voting. This might explain why in the days before widespread social media usage, White people did not vote for ethno-nationalist parties like the BNP in the UK or National Front in France, they were told by the media that these parties are bad and their reality was shaped by this media. However since the explosion of social media, people are more willing to vote for nationalist parties as they see other real people thinking the same way, this is also why I think the media likes to push narratives of 'Russian bots' being the people behind nationalism as this is another way of saying 'look goy, all those people out there opposing race-replacement and degeneracy are not real, all the real people support open borders and sodomy'

    Another example of this is inter-racial adverts

    A 2017 study in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology looked at insula activity in the brain when participants viewed images of interracial couples compared to same-race couples. Insula activation is responsible for a variety of emotions. Evidence shows that insula activity is present when a person experiences disgust and is thought to be a reliable marker of both disgust and aversion. The study found statistical significance between insula activation of participants looking at same-race couples compared to interracial couples. Despite a minority of participants explicitly stating they disagree with interracial dating and marriage, the electroencephalogram (EEG), told a different story.
     
    Yet all polls show that people are not in any way opposed to inter-racial relations, this is social desirability bias in play.


    Moving back to your comment, it could be possible that high IQ people realise that fitting into society will ensure the best outcome for them and therefore support these kind of things pushed by the globalist mass media in order to remain in the polite society. Of course this is a correlation and there will be people who do no fit into this pattern.

    Case in point: Look at all those promotors of Cultural Marxism that live in de facto segregated communities, they choose to shun diversity in their personal lives, anyone can absent-mindedly tick a box on a survey while relaxing in their 99% White suburb
  74. @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    Funny, I made a comment on this exact topic on AE's blog today:

    Fertility rate has improved under him. From 1.25 to 1.51 last year. But the real promising statistic is the number of marriages. From the Hungarian Central Statistical Office for 2019 data:

    65,300 couples got married, which was significantly, 28% higher or 14,472 couples more compared to a year earlier. The number of marriages increased by 0.6% in February-March, by 8.5% in April-May and by 16% in June, compared to a year earlier. This upward trend continued: in July-September there was a 33% increase on average, in October 65% and in November 116% more couples got married. In December the tempo of the growth moderated, but still 54% more people entered into matrimony than a year earlier. In total, the number of marriages in 2019 has been the highest value since 1990.
     
    2020 is off to an even better start:

    The number of marriages went up substantially; 2,863 couples got married, which was nearly twice as much, or 1,412 more than the figure in January 2019. The number of marriages concluded in January 2020 is the highest value measured in January since 1982.
     
    We’ll have to watch. Russia, Belarus, and Poland all saw a temporary increase in fertility rates but are now going down again. Hungary seems to be taking a smart, eugenic approach (women with 4 children pay no taxes), and is promoting a wholesome culture rather than just throwing money around. Let’s see what happens.

    “Hungary seems to be taking a smart, eugenic approach (women with 4 children pay no taxes)”

    Women with four children in the UK tend not to pay any taxes either, because they live on welfare. But it’s a great idea, because it’s a hell of an incentive for an above average earner who hopefully has above average intelligence. I raised four kids with a stay at home mum paying the identical marginal (top) rate of tax that a billionaire would have paid (40%).

    • Replies: @Pumblechook
    Funny, I’m about to have my first child in the UK (son, mashallah) and ideally he will be the first of 4 as well...both myself and my wife work but I’m not in any danger of wandering into the highest tax bracket in the best future!

    Having run the sums on the back of a fag packet for our own situation, free childcare seems to be the incentive which would be big enough to have a real impact on the number of children we have. In an ideal world my wife raises all 4 of them, but we’re not in that world and that’s not how I grew up myself either (both parents worked full time - without any adverse impacts I’ll admit to...). So if we’re both going to be working, then having to pay approx. £10k per year for 4 children until they reach 5 is a serious commitment.

    , @Europe Europa
    I always find it odd how the policy of paying women to reproduce is considered a right wing, "based" policy in Hungary and Eastern Europe generally. In the UK if any government proposed such a policy (beyond the benefits that already exist), it would be the right wingers who would be outraged and hugely opposed to it.
  75. @Kent Nationalist
    The same applies to the Gulf States but they're not Singapore

    No, it doesn’t.
    Hormuz is a single commodity straits, it is most certainly not vital to many countries the way Malacca and Singapore Straits are.
    Not to mention the factor of historicity and heritage.

    Furthermore, Malacca/Singapore has vastly more yearly shipping, look up the numbers.

    Finally – do you see the same treatment of Singapore by Great Powers be provided to Gulf Arabs and Iran? Are you for real?

    Sometimes I get the feeling that people are disconnected from chronology and causality – was Singapore a world leading location in the past, with practically the same demographics?

  76. @iffen
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala’s more direct “disgust” efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    What if one's higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the "best" option?

    Both are possible, don't you think?

    What if one’s higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the “best” option?

    You will lose status if you speak out about it. Since people care more about status than the truth that means those with status to lose – usually smart people – are less likely to publicly advocate tribalism leaving low status, low IQ rabble-rousers to make the case. That is turn reinforces the public perception that tribalists are losers.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Catcha-22
  77. @YetAnotherAnon
    "Hungary seems to be taking a smart, eugenic approach (women with 4 children pay no taxes)"

    Women with four children in the UK tend not to pay any taxes either, because they live on welfare. But it's a great idea, because it's a hell of an incentive for an above average earner who hopefully has above average intelligence. I raised four kids with a stay at home mum paying the identical marginal (top) rate of tax that a billionaire would have paid (40%).

    Funny, I’m about to have my first child in the UK (son, mashallah) and ideally he will be the first of 4 as well…both myself and my wife work but I’m not in any danger of wandering into the highest tax bracket in the best future!

    Having run the sums on the back of a fag packet for our own situation, free childcare seems to be the incentive which would be big enough to have a real impact on the number of children we have. In an ideal world my wife raises all 4 of them, but we’re not in that world and that’s not how I grew up myself either (both parents worked full time – without any adverse impacts I’ll admit to…). So if we’re both going to be working, then having to pay approx. £10k per year for 4 children until they reach 5 is a serious commitment.

  78. @songbird

    Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher.
     
    Thanks, that is exactly the quote I was trying to remember. I think the figure in the book was 106, so not a huge difference, but it would have huge implications on the right tail.

    Singapore has always been multi-racial but I doubt the Chinese would have allowed it to happen if it wasn’t such in the first place.
     
    IMO, the multiracial nature of Singapore is kind of a positive for it, since, if it were 99% Chinese, it would be seen as a Chinese ethnostate, and probably not tolerated. And, anyway, the Chinese are able to maintain their majority by selective immigration.

    In some ways, it is kind of an ideal multicult state, since grievance politics seems to not be tolerated.

    That's interesting about Gwadar. I had not heard of it. I've been thinking of Neom as the Saudi attempt to copy Dubai, but maybe all these things are really based on Singapore.

    The planning of the city seems to be in the early stages and might never transpire, but the Chinese need a port to circumvent a possible Indian Navy blockade of their oil imports in a hypothetical war. Gwadar port is a perfect locations.

    One has to wonder what the Pakistanis will think of a Chinese colony in their country though, the report says 500,000 Chinese could move in. For comparison 1901 census of British India showed a population of 294 million with around 170,000 Europeans.

    I do wonder about of people are right about Chinese colonising these Their World countries, the West is certainly on decline and in the process of becoming the Third World itself. The West will not have the power projection to stop the Chinese.

    • Replies: @songbird

    One has to wonder what the Pakistanis will think of a Chinese colony in their country though, the report says 500,000 Chinese could move in.
     
    Pakis love diversity, but only when it is them doing the invading.

    For comparison 1901 census of British India showed a population of 294 million with around 170,000 Europeans.
     
    Interesting stat. That's actually more Europeans than I would have guessed but still remarkably low. I imagine that they were mostly military men and very few of them had households. If you want your mind blown sometime, look up the number of foreigners in China at the start of the Boxer Rebellion, which the Chinese saw as their great period of humiliation. I'm afraid I'll get the figure wrong, but, off the top of my head, I think it was <20,000, including Japanese. Anyway, definitely not above 30,000.

    I do wonder about of people are right about Chinese colonising these Their World countries
     
    I think China has the intestinal fortitude for colonization, but not the proper fertility. And nuclear weapons also make things difficult. India would be opposed to them colonizing Africa. Not a military match, to be sure, but they would arm Africans. Maybe, a split between them? I've thought of that as a possibility before, but the West would have to loose its ability to project power. The Middle East has a strong interest in Africa too, the Sudan being around 40% of the total arable land in culturally-Arabic countries.
  79. @YetAnotherAnon
    "Hungary seems to be taking a smart, eugenic approach (women with 4 children pay no taxes)"

    Women with four children in the UK tend not to pay any taxes either, because they live on welfare. But it's a great idea, because it's a hell of an incentive for an above average earner who hopefully has above average intelligence. I raised four kids with a stay at home mum paying the identical marginal (top) rate of tax that a billionaire would have paid (40%).

    I always find it odd how the policy of paying women to reproduce is considered a right wing, “based” policy in Hungary and Eastern Europe generally. In the UK if any government proposed such a policy (beyond the benefits that already exist), it would be the right wingers who would be outraged and hugely opposed to it.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
    It is only considered "right-wing" (in fact the actual term used by the media is "far-right") when the purpose of such a policy is to increase the fertility rate of ethnic Europeans like in the case of Hungary, because after all that's what evil moustache man did.

    In the UK, right-wingers would be opposed to it as it would disproportionately benefit Muslims as their women stay at home while White women choose to work. The fertility rate of Muslims in the UK is way above the replacement rate, it's not uncommon to see a woman in a burka or hijab walking around with her 5 kids in some parts of Britain.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    There's that, but there's also this: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/where-leftism-is-conservatism/
  80. @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    So basically I'm just a genetic "freak" - liberal, upper middle class upbringing, yet high IQ, high disgust, highly tribal individual.

    I remember feeling resentment at 'foreign' groups long before I even knew what they were - for instance I found Muslims strange even as a 6 year old. Same with sports teams, as a young boy I was extremely tribal and loved defeating the other "tribes" (sports teams).

    Not trying to bring too much attention to myself I just find it odd how I (and others here) managed to swim upstream in the constant barrage of anti white, and leftist propaganda to get where we are now. How did we end up here and how can we guide others here? If it is truly genetic then most whites are just going to die off.

    Surveys are not a good indication of how tribal people are as there is a phenomenon called “social desirability bias” in which people tend to answer to surveys in a way that they think will land them in the good books of “society” (and who determines the zeitgeist of “society”, yep, Hollywood, newspapers and advertising companies)

    Interestingly, this phenomenon also occurs when the survey is anonymous, so it even carries over to voting. This might explain why in the days before widespread social media usage, White people did not vote for ethno-nationalist parties like the BNP in the UK or National Front in France, they were told by the media that these parties are bad and their reality was shaped by this media. However since the explosion of social media, people are more willing to vote for nationalist parties as they see other real people thinking the same way, this is also why I think the media likes to push narratives of ‘Russian bots’ being the people behind nationalism as this is another way of saying ‘look goy, all those people out there opposing race-replacement and degeneracy are not real, all the real people support open borders and sodomy’

    Another example of this is inter-racial adverts

    A 2017 study in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology looked at insula activity in the brain when participants viewed images of interracial couples compared to same-race couples. Insula activation is responsible for a variety of emotions. Evidence shows that insula activity is present when a person experiences disgust and is thought to be a reliable marker of both disgust and aversion. The study found statistical significance between insula activation of participants looking at same-race couples compared to interracial couples. Despite a minority of participants explicitly stating they disagree with interracial dating and marriage, the electroencephalogram (EEG), told a different story.

    Yet all polls show that people are not in any way opposed to inter-racial relations, this is social desirability bias in play.

    Moving back to your comment, it could be possible that high IQ people realise that fitting into society will ensure the best outcome for them and therefore support these kind of things pushed by the globalist mass media in order to remain in the polite society. Of course this is a correlation and there will be people who do no fit into this pattern.

    Case in point: Look at all those promotors of Cultural Marxism that live in de facto segregated communities, they choose to shun diversity in their personal lives, anyone can absent-mindedly tick a box on a survey while relaxing in their 99% White suburb

  81. @Europe Europa
    I always find it odd how the policy of paying women to reproduce is considered a right wing, "based" policy in Hungary and Eastern Europe generally. In the UK if any government proposed such a policy (beyond the benefits that already exist), it would be the right wingers who would be outraged and hugely opposed to it.

    It is only considered “right-wing” (in fact the actual term used by the media is “far-right”) when the purpose of such a policy is to increase the fertility rate of ethnic Europeans like in the case of Hungary, because after all that’s what evil moustache man did.

    In the UK, right-wingers would be opposed to it as it would disproportionately benefit Muslims as their women stay at home while White women choose to work. The fertility rate of Muslims in the UK is way above the replacement rate, it’s not uncommon to see a woman in a burka or hijab walking around with her 5 kids in some parts of Britain.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    I agree to a certain extent, but in Britain it isn't really a race/immigration thing. Right wing British people find the idea of native British women living off state benefits with multiple children just as infuriating as immigrant women doing the same.

    In fact, in Britain I would argue that it is more associated with lower class native British women than it is with immigrant women.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    The most eugenic policy change in Britain, after decades of dysgenic policy decisions, was Cameron/Osborne in 2015, when it was decided that, going forward, benefits would only be paid for the first two children (existing multi baby mamas kept their bennies). While it won't have completely stopped the "have a kid and get a council house/flat" brigade, it does mean you can't keep having one every three years from 19 to 35 without imposing great hardship on yourself and the kids.

    "No tax for four kids" would need some limits - I could see foreign and domestic billionaires being advised by accountants to divorce and get a brood mare in for tax reasons. But say, "no tax on incomes up to £90,000" would be a huge boost for the middle classes, while being a tiny relative increase for the very rich.

    At the moment a man earning, say, £60k in Britain, supporting stay at home wife and four kids, will be taxed exactly the same as a single man. But the only way he could afford a SAHM is if the mortgage is low - that makes a huge difference and is almost impossible now unless he lives in County Durham or the less picturesque bits of Cumbria or Wales, where he can still find affordable houses (cos employment prospects are poor).
  82. @Matra
    What if one’s higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the “best” option?

    You will lose status if you speak out about it. Since people care more about status than the truth that means those with status to lose - usually smart people - are less likely to publicly advocate tribalism leaving low status, low IQ rabble-rousers to make the case. That is turn reinforces the public perception that tribalists are losers.

    Catcha-22

  83. @Daniel Chieh
    Entirely possible and its not like pro-tribalists are always lacking in IQ. John Derbyshire isn't dim at all, for example. In general, high IQ helps you justify anything you want to believe.

    A tendency for or another of a population group having a trait is not an exclusive sentence of their behavior or positions.

    A tendency for or another of a population group having a trait is not an exclusive sentence of their behavior or positions.

    The group or an individual from the group?

    In general, high IQ helps you justify anything you want to believe.

    Is nationalism irrational or not?

    Are conservatives, rightists and dissidents knuckle-dragging troglodytes or not?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    The group or an individual from the group?
     
    Every individual in a group. There are always outliers - in my other reply I noted the demographics of SSC Survey and it slants reasonably liberal, but notice that a nontrivial quantity of them hold right-wing views(neoreactionary, for example).

    Is nationalism irrational or not?

     

    I think it is rational - if it was completely irrational, as in it was never conducive for survival, it wouldn't exist in our genome at all anymore. I'm sure, for example, there could be an inclination to running off cliffs but such individuals would rapidly self-select out of the population.

    So tribalism as a terminal value definitely has value - incredible value, in fact. But it also has tradeoffs. A society that highly values tribalism and "family", for example, often inclines toward nepotism. Nepotism naturally is a form of corruption and if extended enough, corruption becomes a serious detriment to society. But such highly nepotistic societies would indeed be more resistant to outside influence and infiltration, and indeed, the local 'stationary bandits' have strong incentives not to allow external "bandits" to encroach on their territory.

    There's also an interesting idea by Satoshi Kanazawa that "intelligence" is necessarily more "liberal" in terms of openness: the basic idea in that it is associated with fondness for novelty, and we humans live in highly novel environments, so essentially its just a form of adaptation for the unstable human-created environment/society we live in. I haven't finished evaluating my thoughts on it, but he has interesting explorations and I definitely recommend his work.
  84. @Just Passing Through
    It is only considered "right-wing" (in fact the actual term used by the media is "far-right") when the purpose of such a policy is to increase the fertility rate of ethnic Europeans like in the case of Hungary, because after all that's what evil moustache man did.

    In the UK, right-wingers would be opposed to it as it would disproportionately benefit Muslims as their women stay at home while White women choose to work. The fertility rate of Muslims in the UK is way above the replacement rate, it's not uncommon to see a woman in a burka or hijab walking around with her 5 kids in some parts of Britain.

    I agree to a certain extent, but in Britain it isn’t really a race/immigration thing. Right wing British people find the idea of native British women living off state benefits with multiple children just as infuriating as immigrant women doing the same.

    In fact, in Britain I would argue that it is more associated with lower class native British women than it is with immigrant women.

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
    Maybe Britain is just more economically liberal. Though Norway too was much more liberal in the 19th century. Among which, the alcohol trade was liberalised during that time period. Later the liberal laws surrounding alcohol was repealed as alcoholism had increased. Perhaps Britain will change when it comes to supporting parents? There already seem to be a shift towards it.
  85. @Just Passing Through
    The planning of the city seems to be in the early stages and might never transpire, but the Chinese need a port to circumvent a possible Indian Navy blockade of their oil imports in a hypothetical war. Gwadar port is a perfect locations.

    One has to wonder what the Pakistanis will think of a Chinese colony in their country though, the report says 500,000 Chinese could move in. For comparison 1901 census of British India showed a population of 294 million with around 170,000 Europeans.

    I do wonder about of people are right about Chinese colonising these Their World countries, the West is certainly on decline and in the process of becoming the Third World itself. The West will not have the power projection to stop the Chinese.

    One has to wonder what the Pakistanis will think of a Chinese colony in their country though, the report says 500,000 Chinese could move in.

    Pakis love diversity, but only when it is them doing the invading.

    For comparison 1901 census of British India showed a population of 294 million with around 170,000 Europeans.

    Interesting stat. That’s actually more Europeans than I would have guessed but still remarkably low. I imagine that they were mostly military men and very few of them had households. If you want your mind blown sometime, look up the number of foreigners in China at the start of the Boxer Rebellion, which the Chinese saw as their great period of humiliation. I’m afraid I’ll get the figure wrong, but, off the top of my head, I think it was <20,000, including Japanese. Anyway, definitely not above 30,000.

    I do wonder about of people are right about Chinese colonising these Their World countries

    I think China has the intestinal fortitude for colonization, but not the proper fertility. And nuclear weapons also make things difficult. India would be opposed to them colonizing Africa. Not a military match, to be sure, but they would arm Africans. Maybe, a split between them? I’ve thought of that as a possibility before, but the West would have to loose its ability to project power. The Middle East has a strong interest in Africa too, the Sudan being around 40% of the total arable land in culturally-Arabic countries.

  86. @Daniel Chieh
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_personality

    Neuroticism has been found to have a reliable negative association with g(r=-.33).[18] However, other researchers have recently reported a lower coefficient of .09 for general mental ability and emotional stability. Although these studies have some differences, they all indicate that intelligence increases with a decrease in negative emotion.

     

    Your data set is completely insane and makes a number of unfounded assumptions. Indeed, the hyperbolic emotional language goes well what I indicated(and which I'm glad to provide data for: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(11)00289-2).

    Here we show that this functional correlate of political attitudes has a counterpart in brain structure. In a large sample of young adults, we related self-reported political attitudes to gray matter volume using structural MRI. We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala.
     
    An uncharitable(and I think also exaggerated and inaccurate) exploration of it is Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds

    Someone who is consistently liberal but intelligent would be someone like Bill Gates, rather than a Trigglypuff which would self-identify as an extreme leftist. Even someone who is genuinely a destroyer of countries, like George Soros(and I've read some of his writings) tends toward a calm and consistent effort - unfortunately, a calm and consistently negative effort, but accomplishments both for good and ill don't come from nothing.

    Your data set is completely insane and makes a number of unfounded assumptions.

    The data set is not mine. One of the top authors on Unz.com, AUDACIOUS EPIGONE, created the charts.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/loony-libs-callous-cons/

    Indeed, the hyperbolic emotional language goes well what I indicate

    You introduced the term tribalism … Let me refresh your memory:

    #47 by DC: … higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe. Being a member of the SJW Globalist tribe requires blind obedience to its articles of faith.

    Hungary’s Orban is taking rational and restrained steps to protect his people from the stupid, yet highly aggressive, SJW Globalist tribe.

    Someone who is consistently liberal but intelligent would be someone like Bill Gates

    In any large tribal population, IQ will have a distribution. It is almost inevitable that there will be a few Higher IQ, SJW Globalists in the distribution tail. Gates and Soros are good examples.

    However, the mean IQ for the SJW Globalists is abysmally low. One of the key dogmas of SJW Globalist, Elite 1% theology is Science Denial. As a result the SJW Globalist, Low IQ tribe is prone to over react with hysterical levels of emotion and propose irrational solutions that defy physical reality.

    For example, SJW Globalist theology insists that high-availability hydrocarbon power can be economically replaced with intermittent/low-availability solar and wind power. Anyone with even an average level of intelligence can easily find multiple glaring flaws with this anti-science, dogmatic religious edict.

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    The data set is not mine. One of the top authors on Unz.com, AUDACIOUS EPIGONE, created the charts.
     
    There's nothing wrong with the data set. Its how you're applying it; the essential question is "what is the general distribution of high IQ individuals," which slants a certain way due to how information is processed by brains. I linked you to some posts by our dear host which further discuss that - there's also demographic information from SSC, which is a fairly good hub of high IQ and interesting discussion worth following up on:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/03/17/ssc-survey-2017-results/

    https://i.imgur.com/MhP8eH0.png

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe. Being a member of the SJW Globalist tribe requires blind obedience to its articles of faith.

     

    I think it can be a stretch; I qualify that because many leftist organizations are indeed essentially as you say it is. I'm familiar with antifa and it has insanely cultlike trappings, which permit it to be used as shocktroopers.

    However, this isn't anything new; individual with low IQ tend to fall for incredibly nutty things of no real meaning:

    http://journal.sjdm.org/15/15923a/jdm15923a.pdf


    Here we focus on pseudo-profound bullshit, which
    consists of seemingly impressive assertions that are presented as true and meaningful but are actually vacuous. We presented
    participants with bullshit statements consisting of buzzwords randomly organized into statements with syntactic structure but
    no discernible meaning (e.g., “Wholeness quiets infinite phenomena”).
     
    What I disagree with is rather that we should remove the tail ends where you'll find extremists and cultists of all sorts, and this is where the more meaningful attributes of more liberal attitudes and their advantages come into play.

    For example, Scandic countries gets a lot of Sweden Yes jokes and it is indeed pretty self-destructive. But I've always admired the open source community and its not a surprise that Linus Torvalds, Markus Persson, Johan Andersson, etc all hail from there. The notion of open source is really quite anti-tribal: you make things for free and give them away, so that others will make things for free and give them to you. But in software, it really works and has given us unbelievably beautiful libraries and programs. In its general mentality, this kind of generous attitude is incredibly powerful and allows unbelievable advancement: it is indeed "inclusive" and "socialistic" and it works in ways that purely for-profit and anti-sharing work really can't do. It is essentially a high IQ mentality with low time preference and a transcendent attitude.

    And yet, it is also then not a surprise that Guido van Rossum(the creator of Python) will just take a few steps further and become a hardcore leftist:

    The Programmer who created Python isn't interested in mentoring white guys

    He believes the key to making open-source communities more inclusive is establishing (and enforcing) codes of conduct and mentoring. Van Rossum says that he now mentors women and underrepresented minority programmers. “But white guys can forget it,” he said. “They are not the ones who need it most.” (In typical programmer speak, he calls mentoring a “completely distributed, democratic approach.”)

     

    The long and short of it is that there are distributions, these distributions exist for reason(that more flexible approaches tend to be intelligent approaches), but even so, as Paracelsus said, the dose makes the poison. What applies to medicine also applies to their more inclusive views.
    , @AP

    However, the mean IQ for the SJW Globalists is abysmally low. One of the key dogmas of SJW Globalist, Elite 1% theology is Science Denial. As a result the SJW Globalist, Low IQ tribe is prone to over react with hysterical levels of emotion and propose irrational solutions that defy physical reality.
     
    Having weird and wrong ideas is certainly not antithetical to high intelligence. Highly intelligent people can come up with very complex and clever rationalizations for their wrong ideas. Have you ever spoken to a highly intelligent paranoid person?

    A person of low average intelligence who follows "common sense" is often more correct than a brilliant person brilliantly advocating for some wrong or nonsensical idea.

    For whatever reason, science denialism on certain subjects is very fashionable currently, and therefore the smarter one is, the more sophisticated one's arguments (and therefore the stronger one's conviction) for silly ideas. This is true not only with respect to science denialists but also true of science "totalists."
    , @dfordoom

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe.
     
    That's stretching the definition of tribe quite bit. I think most people would consider tribe to be based on race or ethnicity or culture.

    The globalist SJW elite are not a tribe. They're a class. Tribe and class are very very different things.
  87. @A123

    Your data set is completely insane and makes a number of unfounded assumptions.
     
    The data set is not mine. One of the top authors on Unz.com, AUDACIOUS EPIGONE, created the charts.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/loony-libs-callous-cons/


    Indeed, the hyperbolic emotional language goes well what I indicate
     
    You introduced the term tribalism ... Let me refresh your memory:

    #47 by DC: ... higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

     

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe. Being a member of the SJW Globalist tribe requires blind obedience to its articles of faith.

    Hungary's Orban is taking rational and restrained steps to protect his people from the stupid, yet highly aggressive, SJW Globalist tribe.


    Someone who is consistently liberal but intelligent would be someone like Bill Gates
     
    In any large tribal population, IQ will have a distribution. It is almost inevitable that there will be a few Higher IQ, SJW Globalists in the distribution tail. Gates and Soros are good examples.

    However, the mean IQ for the SJW Globalists is abysmally low. One of the key dogmas of SJW Globalist, Elite 1% theology is Science Denial. As a result the SJW Globalist, Low IQ tribe is prone to over react with hysterical levels of emotion and propose irrational solutions that defy physical reality.

    For example, SJW Globalist theology insists that high-availability hydrocarbon power can be economically replaced with intermittent/low-availability solar and wind power. Anyone with even an average level of intelligence can easily find multiple glaring flaws with this anti-science, dogmatic religious edict.

    PEACE 😷

    The data set is not mine. One of the top authors on Unz.com, AUDACIOUS EPIGONE, created the charts.

    There’s nothing wrong with the data set. Its how you’re applying it; the essential question is “what is the general distribution of high IQ individuals,” which slants a certain way due to how information is processed by brains. I linked you to some posts by our dear host which further discuss that – there’s also demographic information from SSC, which is a fairly good hub of high IQ and interesting discussion worth following up on:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/03/17/ssc-survey-2017-results/

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe. Being a member of the SJW Globalist tribe requires blind obedience to its articles of faith.

    I think it can be a stretch; I qualify that because many leftist organizations are indeed essentially as you say it is. I’m familiar with antifa and it has insanely cultlike trappings, which permit it to be used as shocktroopers.

    However, this isn’t anything new; individual with low IQ tend to fall for incredibly nutty things of no real meaning:

    http://journal.sjdm.org/15/15923a/jdm15923a.pdf

    Here we focus on pseudo-profound bullshit, which
    consists of seemingly impressive assertions that are presented as true and meaningful but are actually vacuous. We presented
    participants with bullshit statements consisting of buzzwords randomly organized into statements with syntactic structure but
    no discernible meaning (e.g., “Wholeness quiets infinite phenomena”).

    What I disagree with is rather that we should remove the tail ends where you’ll find extremists and cultists of all sorts, and this is where the more meaningful attributes of more liberal attitudes and their advantages come into play.

    For example, Scandic countries gets a lot of Sweden Yes jokes and it is indeed pretty self-destructive. But I’ve always admired the open source community and its not a surprise that Linus Torvalds, Markus Persson, Johan Andersson, etc all hail from there. The notion of open source is really quite anti-tribal: you make things for free and give them away, so that others will make things for free and give them to you. But in software, it really works and has given us unbelievably beautiful libraries and programs. In its general mentality, this kind of generous attitude is incredibly powerful and allows unbelievable advancement: it is indeed “inclusive” and “socialistic” and it works in ways that purely for-profit and anti-sharing work really can’t do. It is essentially a high IQ mentality with low time preference and a transcendent attitude.

    And yet, it is also then not a surprise that Guido van Rossum(the creator of Python) will just take a few steps further and become a hardcore leftist:

    The Programmer who created Python isn’t interested in mentoring white guys

    He believes the key to making open-source communities more inclusive is establishing (and enforcing) codes of conduct and mentoring. Van Rossum says that he now mentors women and underrepresented minority programmers. “But white guys can forget it,” he said. “They are not the ones who need it most.” (In typical programmer speak, he calls mentoring a “completely distributed, democratic approach.”)

    The long and short of it is that there are distributions, these distributions exist for reason(that more flexible approaches tend to be intelligent approaches), but even so, as Paracelsus said, the dose makes the poison. What applies to medicine also applies to their more inclusive views.

    • Replies: @A123
    I am having difficulty following your argument.


    What I disagree with is rather that we should remove the tail ends where you’ll find extremists and cultists of all sorts,

     

    Then you go to the story of one person who is a tail end case.

    Although, it is worth noting that the person that you mention is certainly a SJW Globlist:
    -- Openly Racist -- Discriminates against Caucasians
    -- Openly Sexist -- Discriminates against Males
    ____

    I concur with your idea about removing the tail ends.

    Let us look at the core values of the middle of the distribution of the Elite SJW Globalist tribe.

    -A- They believe in controls on speech and dissent. This is expressed in a tribal code via terms like "triggering", "safe spaces", and "Political Correctness".

    On college campuses the situation is worse. Free speech is actively punished and penalized to protect the emotions of SJW Globalists. This further reinforces and intensifies the closed-minded insular character of this tribe.

    -B- They actively support Science Denial. Let me repeat my example ... SJW Globalist theology insists that high-availability hydrocarbon power can be economically replaced with intermittent/low-availability solar and wind power. Anyone with even an average level of intelligence can easily find multiple glaring flaws with this anti-science, dogmatic religious edict.

    To believe the things that the bulk of Elite SJW Globalists believe -- strongly indicates that the mean IQ of this population is substantially lower than the mean of the U.S. population as a whole.

    PEACE 😷
  88. @iffen
    A tendency for or another of a population group having a trait is not an exclusive sentence of their behavior or positions.

    The group or an individual from the group?

    In general, high IQ helps you justify anything you want to believe.

    Is nationalism irrational or not?

    Are conservatives, rightists and dissidents knuckle-dragging troglodytes or not?

    The group or an individual from the group?

    Every individual in a group. There are always outliers – in my other reply I noted the demographics of SSC Survey and it slants reasonably liberal, but notice that a nontrivial quantity of them hold right-wing views(neoreactionary, for example).

    Is nationalism irrational or not?

    I think it is rational – if it was completely irrational, as in it was never conducive for survival, it wouldn’t exist in our genome at all anymore. I’m sure, for example, there could be an inclination to running off cliffs but such individuals would rapidly self-select out of the population.

    So tribalism as a terminal value definitely has value – incredible value, in fact. But it also has tradeoffs. A society that highly values tribalism and “family”, for example, often inclines toward nepotism. Nepotism naturally is a form of corruption and if extended enough, corruption becomes a serious detriment to society. But such highly nepotistic societies would indeed be more resistant to outside influence and infiltration, and indeed, the local ‘stationary bandits’ have strong incentives not to allow external “bandits” to encroach on their territory.

    There’s also an interesting idea by Satoshi Kanazawa that “intelligence” is necessarily more “liberal” in terms of openness: the basic idea in that it is associated with fondness for novelty, and we humans live in highly novel environments, so essentially its just a form of adaptation for the unstable human-created environment/society we live in. I haven’t finished evaluating my thoughts on it, but he has interesting explorations and I definitely recommend his work.

    • Replies: @iffen
    So tribalism as a terminal value definitely has value – incredible value, in fact. But it also has tradeoffs.

    I'm just pondering a couple of ideas that I have come across. One being a flat statement that nationalism has no rational basis and can only advance by appealing to bias. (Of course that translates into the Trump deplorables running on amygdala juice while the opposition is "rational.") Another is one that I see in the arguments of the more sophisticated Jew-haters and that is that Jews "can't" step outside of their tribalism like the "rest some of us" can.

  89. @Daniel Chieh
    Seems possible.

    Newton avoided all sexual contact but was an avid and devoted occultist. Victorian elite avoided open sexuality and excitation in general(though I'm not so sure in secret, given the wide solicitation of brothels and vast quantities of erotica produced during era), but it was also the flowering of all manner of weirdnesss: spiritualists, ectoplasma, seances, and so on.

    Voltaire wrote that Newton owed his career “not to infinitesimal calculus and gravitation but to the beauty of his niece.”

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
  90. AP says:
    @A123

    Your data set is completely insane and makes a number of unfounded assumptions.
     
    The data set is not mine. One of the top authors on Unz.com, AUDACIOUS EPIGONE, created the charts.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/loony-libs-callous-cons/


    Indeed, the hyperbolic emotional language goes well what I indicate
     
    You introduced the term tribalism ... Let me refresh your memory:

    #47 by DC: ... higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

     

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe. Being a member of the SJW Globalist tribe requires blind obedience to its articles of faith.

    Hungary's Orban is taking rational and restrained steps to protect his people from the stupid, yet highly aggressive, SJW Globalist tribe.


    Someone who is consistently liberal but intelligent would be someone like Bill Gates
     
    In any large tribal population, IQ will have a distribution. It is almost inevitable that there will be a few Higher IQ, SJW Globalists in the distribution tail. Gates and Soros are good examples.

    However, the mean IQ for the SJW Globalists is abysmally low. One of the key dogmas of SJW Globalist, Elite 1% theology is Science Denial. As a result the SJW Globalist, Low IQ tribe is prone to over react with hysterical levels of emotion and propose irrational solutions that defy physical reality.

    For example, SJW Globalist theology insists that high-availability hydrocarbon power can be economically replaced with intermittent/low-availability solar and wind power. Anyone with even an average level of intelligence can easily find multiple glaring flaws with this anti-science, dogmatic religious edict.

    PEACE 😷

    However, the mean IQ for the SJW Globalists is abysmally low. One of the key dogmas of SJW Globalist, Elite 1% theology is Science Denial. As a result the SJW Globalist, Low IQ tribe is prone to over react with hysterical levels of emotion and propose irrational solutions that defy physical reality.

    Having weird and wrong ideas is certainly not antithetical to high intelligence. Highly intelligent people can come up with very complex and clever rationalizations for their wrong ideas. Have you ever spoken to a highly intelligent paranoid person?

    A person of low average intelligence who follows “common sense” is often more correct than a brilliant person brilliantly advocating for some wrong or nonsensical idea.

    For whatever reason, science denialism on certain subjects is very fashionable currently, and therefore the smarter one is, the more sophisticated one’s arguments (and therefore the stronger one’s conviction) for silly ideas. This is true not only with respect to science denialists but also true of science “totalists.”

    • Replies: @A123

    A person of low average intelligence who follows “common sense” is often more correct than a brilliant person brilliantly advocating for some wrong or nonsensical idea.
     
    It would be helpful to have a Common Sense Quotient [CSQ] to go along with IQ.

    Is a person using convoluted arguments to oppose obvious physical reality actually smart? Or, is it a special kind of stupid? IQ packages several different concepts together in one number.

    PEACE 😷
  91. @Europe Europa
    The West bombs Syria, Libya, etc, to smithereens and then wonders why millions of refugees are flooding into Europe. "Close the borders!" they arrogantly tell Turkey as if Turkey is to blame. Turkey is not to blame for this, why should they bear the burden of the West's war crimes?

    Not all European nationalists are arrogant, war-mongering hypocrites but most are. The sort of people who complain most about refugees flooding into Europe are mostly the same people who are cheer on the US and European militaries in their invasions and bombing campaigns in the Middle East. Any true nationalist would want total disengagement from the Middle East, if Western countries didn't bomb these countries and murder and displace people there then they would have no moral obligation towards them but the fact is they do. Yet I've almost never heard a self-proclaimed nationalist suggest that the West should disengage from the Middle East, the vast majority enthusiastically support war on the Middle East and then act shocked and utterly bemused at the predictable consequences.

    The West bombs Syria, Libya, etc, to smithereens and then wonders why millions of refugees are flooding into Europe. “Close the borders!” they arrogantly tell Turkey as if Turkey is to blame. Turkey is not to blame for this, why should they bear the burden of the West’s war crimes?

    Turkey played and continues to play an outsized role in stoking the fire of civil war in Syria, actually way bigger than Western Europe (though the Europeans are not fully innocent either), so your argument is based on a false premise.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill, songbird
  92. @Epigon
    I am getting tired of people ascribing magical properties to Singapore leadership.
    In the same manner I am very tired of Switzerland meme.

    There is nothing magical in having the most strategic location in the world’s busiest straits and Great Powers being interested in maintaining your status.

    The more you dabble in absurd theories and ignore the obvious, the funnier it gets.

    Location is not everything.

  93. @Peter Akuleyev
    Orban is simply a gangster. He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power. He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country, turned most of the economy over to global car manufacturers and depends on EU subsidies to keep the lights on. Why do so called “patriots” continually fall for frauds like Orban, Putin, Erdogan and Trump? None of these people build anything, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries as long as they can. It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.

    He is not a devout Christian

    Perhaps not, but it’s interesting that his only son (he has four daughters) went to Africa for a sabbatical to work for some charity, and upon return became an evangelical Christian (of the cringe American variety).

    He is corrupt, even, it appears, personally, but certainly it’s not his main motivation (the money is mostly stolen to pay allies or please family members, not for himself), even the alleged personal wealth under the control of a dumb front man is probably rather party money to keep the media empire and campaigns.

    • Replies: @AP

    He is corrupt, even, it appears, personally, but certainly it’s not his main motivation (the money is mostly stolen to pay allies or please family members, not for himself), even the alleged personal wealth under the control of a dumb front man is probably rather party money to keep the media empire and campaigns.
     
    From your description, he appears to be of the same type as the Daley family of Chicago. Corrupt primarily for the purpose of power. Daley controlled Chicago for decades, distributing access to corrupt means of generating wealth to sponsors and handing out wealth to his vassals in exchange for political loyalty, without cashing in much himself. This is the modest house in a working-class Irish neighborhood where Mayor Daley, who controlled America's second largest city for 23 years, lived his entire life:

    https://live.staticflickr.com/4440/35869534694_8fe63baef1_b.jpg

    His son was mayor was another 20+ years. The son treated himself a bit more.

    The Daleys were not nearly as effective as someone like Bloomberg, but were certainly better managers than were progressive activist-mayors; they had some common sense, and did not want to wreck their "patrimony", so their Chicago was not ruined like Detroit, Seattle, or San Francisco were ruined. Hungary could do worse than Orban.

  94. @Just Passing Through
    It is only considered "right-wing" (in fact the actual term used by the media is "far-right") when the purpose of such a policy is to increase the fertility rate of ethnic Europeans like in the case of Hungary, because after all that's what evil moustache man did.

    In the UK, right-wingers would be opposed to it as it would disproportionately benefit Muslims as their women stay at home while White women choose to work. The fertility rate of Muslims in the UK is way above the replacement rate, it's not uncommon to see a woman in a burka or hijab walking around with her 5 kids in some parts of Britain.

    The most eugenic policy change in Britain, after decades of dysgenic policy decisions, was Cameron/Osborne in 2015, when it was decided that, going forward, benefits would only be paid for the first two children (existing multi baby mamas kept their bennies). While it won’t have completely stopped the “have a kid and get a council house/flat” brigade, it does mean you can’t keep having one every three years from 19 to 35 without imposing great hardship on yourself and the kids.

    “No tax for four kids” would need some limits – I could see foreign and domestic billionaires being advised by accountants to divorce and get a brood mare in for tax reasons. But say, “no tax on incomes up to £90,000” would be a huge boost for the middle classes, while being a tiny relative increase for the very rich.

    At the moment a man earning, say, £60k in Britain, supporting stay at home wife and four kids, will be taxed exactly the same as a single man. But the only way he could afford a SAHM is if the mortgage is low – that makes a huge difference and is almost impossible now unless he lives in County Durham or the less picturesque bits of Cumbria or Wales, where he can still find affordable houses (cos employment prospects are poor).

    • Replies: @songbird
    The no income tax, after four kids, only applies to the mother's income.

    Seems reasonable to me. Women with large families generally work low prestige jobs, which don't account for much of the tax base. Given that, I don't know whether it is really a great inducement in itself, but it is at least a positive signal.
  95. State of emergency
    Rule by decree
    Parliament suspended
    No elections
    Spreading fake news & rumors: up to 5 years in prison
    Leaving quarantine: up to 8 years in prison

    “State of emergency” according to the Basic Law, so it is not a new legislation. Only change is that the 15 day deadline is changed to indefinite deadline. So as long as the emergency is over according to the government.
    The government can rule by decree as long as the decrees are to control the emergency, but the Parliament is not suspended, it will convene next week too and supposedly regularly. The 15 day limit could be extended every time by Parliament as Orbán’s party has a two-thirds supermajority. The government just did not want to bother with this technicality (perhaps fearing that if enough MP’s get sick (or even die) they could lose the supermajority in the future). Elections are due in 2022, so supposed that the state of emergency is not contuing into ’22 they will be held.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  96. 128 says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala's more direct "disgust" efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    Note how higher IQ is associated with higher openness to experience and less neuroticism(which is associated with fear in general) as well.

    Can you explain why the high IQ historical Confucian elite in China and Korea, if you define high IQ as book smarts, had a very low openness to experience, for example burning the ships of the Zheng He expedition, and banning all such expeditions in the future, coupled with a high IQ, which seems to be paradoxical in nature in comparison to the present day? And Confucianism, for a high IQ culture, also is somewhat sexually prudish, and also ranks low on hedonism.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Well, its actually more complex than that. China has times of incredibly high openness and "inclusiveness" and they coincided with the highest and lowest parts of China.

    The Tang dynasty was very cosmopolitan, with an explicit mandate for ethnic equality:

    While mostly symbolic, the title of Heavenly Kaghan shows Taizong's open attitudes towards the existence of a multicultural and ethnically diverse Tang empire. Taizong was proud of his policies promoting ethnic equality, and was reported to have said that, "The emperors since ancient times have all appreciated the Chinese and depreciated the barbarians. Only I view them as equal. That is why they look upon me as their parent.
     
    It should be noted that Taizong is probably China's greatest emperor, one of the most obviously intelligent men in Chinese history; he would take time listening and arguing with courtiers, almost but dispensed of his harem, and spent most of his life working and his work would see the expansion of China to its greatest extent.

    Naturally, it would lead to xenophilia in some. It went as far as the crown prince actively promoting Turkic culture:

    "He [Chengqian] lved to emulate Turkish speech and their manner of dress. He chose from among his retinue those who had Turkish features and grouped them in bands of five; he made them plait their hair, wear sheepskins, and herd sheep. He had made five wolf's head banners and tents and set up yurts. The crown prince took up residence here; he gathered sheep and cooked them, and then, drawing out his waist-knife, he would carve the meat and let everyone eat."
     
    And ultimately it led to the disasterous An Lushan rebellion, where the Turkic general An Lushan gathered his co-ethnics after fully infiltrating and being trusted at the Chinese court and attempted to overwhelm the throne. Note that quite a few of the Turks remained loyal to China against their co-ethnics:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Baoyu

    When An Lushan sent messengers to try to persuade him to submit to Yan, he killed An Lushan's messengers...In 757, An Baoyu petitioned Emperor Suzong for a name change—stating, "Your subject has lived in Liang Prefecture for generations. I am ashamed to bear the same surname as the rebellious subject." Emperor Suzong granted him the imperial surname of Li, and also permitted him to change his designated home to Chang'an—considered a substantial honor at the time. This was applied retroactively to his Sogdian ancestors as well, all of whom would be referred with the surname Li instead of An.
     
    Notably in all of this is that the Chinese tend to be obsessed with cultural superiority rather than a particular conception of racial identification(though this has been debated), so the adage of China ultimately being willing to tolerate some variation of multiethnic but not multicultural(except as kitsch) remains.

    Confucianism itself prioritized the family unit, and therefore explicitly made virtuous the idea of loyalty to family; avoidance of external influence, but there remains an interest in other things historically in the elite. This is where Taoism came from, for one, as an esoteric and mystical religion that eschewed the material challenges of Confucianism. Novelty in food and medicine was and is, of course, widespread in China and thus the many animals being consumed, but also the sheer canon of obsession to food should not be underestimated. Denied novelty in some areas, they sought it in others.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cuisine

    By the time of Confucius in the late Zhou, gastronomy had become a high art. Confucius discussed the principles of dining: "The rice would never be too white, the meat would never be too finely cut... When it was not cooked right, man would not eat. When it was cooked bad, man would not eat. When the meat was not cut properly, man would not eat..."

    By the Later Han period (2nd century), writers frequently complained of lazy aristocrats who did nothing but sit around all day eating smoked meats and roasts.
     
    Its worth adding to this that Confucian valuation of the family tie made have led to direct weaknesses of the Ming; one of the continuing challenges of the Ming was the inability to consistently collect a meaningful tax base, and this was directly due to corruption and family clans. The fiasco of the Japanese/Chinese negotiaors during the Imjin War was directly related to this, where the Chinese courtier sent to negotiate with the Japanese explicitly lied to the emperor so that his family(who was focused on trade) would hopefully get a quick end to hostilities. Emperor Wanli was able to see through his ruse, but the fact that courtier would officially and explicitly attempt to deceive the emperor to benefit his family was just a microcosm of the larger issues of "family favoritism" and nepotism that would ultimately bring down the Ming as a whole.
  97. @Daniel Chieh
    I should add that I believe that Mr. Karlin has also written about this, both on the right's human capital issue:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/

    And of certain populations(especially Asian) in their (greatly) lowered tendency toward conceiving or thinking of the novel:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/salon-demographics/

    Maybe the tradeoff with demociding the high IQ, high openness to experience liberals like what happened in ancient China and the Sinosphere, in return for slightly buggier software and jet engines that are 5 years behind in terms of technology, and electric cars that have 10 percent less range than Teslas is quite acceptable, or slightly more boring architecture, if that is what you are trying to get at?

    • Replies: @iffen
    Maybe the tradeoff

    Let's compare the lives of the proles and peons of Northern Europe and their settler countries with the lives of the peons in the east.
  98. But then imperial Chinese society was reasonably highly inventive until the invasion of the Mongoloids, so ancient China managed to combine relatively high innovation with a low openness to novelty high IQ Confucian elite running the show, which is hard to explain.

  99. @128
    Maybe the tradeoff with demociding the high IQ, high openness to experience liberals like what happened in ancient China and the Sinosphere, in return for slightly buggier software and jet engines that are 5 years behind in terms of technology, and electric cars that have 10 percent less range than Teslas is quite acceptable, or slightly more boring architecture, if that is what you are trying to get at?

    Maybe the tradeoff

    Let’s compare the lives of the proles and peons of Northern Europe and their settler countries with the lives of the peons in the east.

  100. @Daniel Chieh

    The group or an individual from the group?
     
    Every individual in a group. There are always outliers - in my other reply I noted the demographics of SSC Survey and it slants reasonably liberal, but notice that a nontrivial quantity of them hold right-wing views(neoreactionary, for example).

    Is nationalism irrational or not?

     

    I think it is rational - if it was completely irrational, as in it was never conducive for survival, it wouldn't exist in our genome at all anymore. I'm sure, for example, there could be an inclination to running off cliffs but such individuals would rapidly self-select out of the population.

    So tribalism as a terminal value definitely has value - incredible value, in fact. But it also has tradeoffs. A society that highly values tribalism and "family", for example, often inclines toward nepotism. Nepotism naturally is a form of corruption and if extended enough, corruption becomes a serious detriment to society. But such highly nepotistic societies would indeed be more resistant to outside influence and infiltration, and indeed, the local 'stationary bandits' have strong incentives not to allow external "bandits" to encroach on their territory.

    There's also an interesting idea by Satoshi Kanazawa that "intelligence" is necessarily more "liberal" in terms of openness: the basic idea in that it is associated with fondness for novelty, and we humans live in highly novel environments, so essentially its just a form of adaptation for the unstable human-created environment/society we live in. I haven't finished evaluating my thoughts on it, but he has interesting explorations and I definitely recommend his work.

    So tribalism as a terminal value definitely has value – incredible value, in fact. But it also has tradeoffs.

    I’m just pondering a couple of ideas that I have come across. One being a flat statement that nationalism has no rational basis and can only advance by appealing to bias. (Of course that translates into the Trump deplorables running on amygdala juice while the opposition is “rational.”) Another is one that I see in the arguments of the more sophisticated Jew-haters and that is that Jews “can’t” step outside of their tribalism like the “rest some of us” can.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    "amygdala juice" might be more of an instinct like reflexively blinking your eyes from dust, but I'm sure that your eyes appreciate the reflex. Its only an issue when the emotions override all other considerations.
  101. Brexit hasn’t been mentioned in the UK practically at all since this crisis began, other than demands for the British government to suspend it indefinitely.

    I get the impression that this crisis is shifting public opinion in the UK significantly in favour of regional/international co-operation. It’s odd that the British government has been towing the EU line on this far more so than say Sweden, Boris initially tried to do things more like Sweden is, but the British public demanded he follow the EU in a total lock down.

  102. @128
    Can you explain why the high IQ historical Confucian elite in China and Korea, if you define high IQ as book smarts, had a very low openness to experience, for example burning the ships of the Zheng He expedition, and banning all such expeditions in the future, coupled with a high IQ, which seems to be paradoxical in nature in comparison to the present day? And Confucianism, for a high IQ culture, also is somewhat sexually prudish, and also ranks low on hedonism.

    Well, its actually more complex than that. China has times of incredibly high openness and “inclusiveness” and they coincided with the highest and lowest parts of China.

    The Tang dynasty was very cosmopolitan, with an explicit mandate for ethnic equality:

    While mostly symbolic, the title of Heavenly Kaghan shows Taizong’s open attitudes towards the existence of a multicultural and ethnically diverse Tang empire. Taizong was proud of his policies promoting ethnic equality, and was reported to have said that, “The emperors since ancient times have all appreciated the Chinese and depreciated the barbarians. Only I view them as equal. That is why they look upon me as their parent.

    It should be noted that Taizong is probably China’s greatest emperor, one of the most obviously intelligent men in Chinese history; he would take time listening and arguing with courtiers, almost but dispensed of his harem, and spent most of his life working and his work would see the expansion of China to its greatest extent.

    Naturally, it would lead to xenophilia in some. It went as far as the crown prince actively promoting Turkic culture:

    “He [Chengqian] lved to emulate Turkish speech and their manner of dress. He chose from among his retinue those who had Turkish features and grouped them in bands of five; he made them plait their hair, wear sheepskins, and herd sheep. He had made five wolf’s head banners and tents and set up yurts. The crown prince took up residence here; he gathered sheep and cooked them, and then, drawing out his waist-knife, he would carve the meat and let everyone eat.”

    And ultimately it led to the disasterous An Lushan rebellion, where the Turkic general An Lushan gathered his co-ethnics after fully infiltrating and being trusted at the Chinese court and attempted to overwhelm the throne. Note that quite a few of the Turks remained loyal to China against their co-ethnics:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Baoyu

    When An Lushan sent messengers to try to persuade him to submit to Yan, he killed An Lushan’s messengers…In 757, An Baoyu petitioned Emperor Suzong for a name change—stating, “Your subject has lived in Liang Prefecture for generations. I am ashamed to bear the same surname as the rebellious subject.” Emperor Suzong granted him the imperial surname of Li, and also permitted him to change his designated home to Chang’an—considered a substantial honor at the time. This was applied retroactively to his Sogdian ancestors as well, all of whom would be referred with the surname Li instead of An.

    Notably in all of this is that the Chinese tend to be obsessed with cultural superiority rather than a particular conception of racial identification(though this has been debated), so the adage of China ultimately being willing to tolerate some variation of multiethnic but not multicultural(except as kitsch) remains.

    Confucianism itself prioritized the family unit, and therefore explicitly made virtuous the idea of loyalty to family; avoidance of external influence, but there remains an interest in other things historically in the elite. This is where Taoism came from, for one, as an esoteric and mystical religion that eschewed the material challenges of Confucianism. Novelty in food and medicine was and is, of course, widespread in China and thus the many animals being consumed, but also the sheer canon of obsession to food should not be underestimated. Denied novelty in some areas, they sought it in others.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cuisine

    By the time of Confucius in the late Zhou, gastronomy had become a high art. Confucius discussed the principles of dining: “The rice would never be too white, the meat would never be too finely cut… When it was not cooked right, man would not eat. When it was cooked bad, man would not eat. When the meat was not cut properly, man would not eat…”

    By the Later Han period (2nd century), writers frequently complained of lazy aristocrats who did nothing but sit around all day eating smoked meats and roasts.

    Its worth adding to this that Confucian valuation of the family tie made have led to direct weaknesses of the Ming; one of the continuing challenges of the Ming was the inability to consistently collect a meaningful tax base, and this was directly due to corruption and family clans. The fiasco of the Japanese/Chinese negotiaors during the Imjin War was directly related to this, where the Chinese courtier sent to negotiate with the Japanese explicitly lied to the emperor so that his family(who was focused on trade) would hopefully get a quick end to hostilities. Emperor Wanli was able to see through his ruse, but the fact that courtier would officially and explicitly attempt to deceive the emperor to benefit his family was just a microcosm of the larger issues of “family favoritism” and nepotism that would ultimately bring down the Ming as a whole.

    • Thanks: songbird
  103. @iffen
    So tribalism as a terminal value definitely has value – incredible value, in fact. But it also has tradeoffs.

    I'm just pondering a couple of ideas that I have come across. One being a flat statement that nationalism has no rational basis and can only advance by appealing to bias. (Of course that translates into the Trump deplorables running on amygdala juice while the opposition is "rational.") Another is one that I see in the arguments of the more sophisticated Jew-haters and that is that Jews "can't" step outside of their tribalism like the "rest some of us" can.

    “amygdala juice” might be more of an instinct like reflexively blinking your eyes from dust, but I’m sure that your eyes appreciate the reflex. Its only an issue when the emotions override all other considerations.

    • Agree: iffen
  104. @Europe Europa
    I agree to a certain extent, but in Britain it isn't really a race/immigration thing. Right wing British people find the idea of native British women living off state benefits with multiple children just as infuriating as immigrant women doing the same.

    In fact, in Britain I would argue that it is more associated with lower class native British women than it is with immigrant women.

    Maybe Britain is just more economically liberal. Though Norway too was much more liberal in the 19th century. Among which, the alcohol trade was liberalised during that time period. Later the liberal laws surrounding alcohol was repealed as alcoholism had increased. Perhaps Britain will change when it comes to supporting parents? There already seem to be a shift towards it.

  105. AP says:
    @reiner Tor

    He is not a devout Christian
     
    Perhaps not, but it’s interesting that his only son (he has four daughters) went to Africa for a sabbatical to work for some charity, and upon return became an evangelical Christian (of the cringe American variety).

    He is corrupt, even, it appears, personally, but certainly it’s not his main motivation (the money is mostly stolen to pay allies or please family members, not for himself), even the alleged personal wealth under the control of a dumb front man is probably rather party money to keep the media empire and campaigns.

    He is corrupt, even, it appears, personally, but certainly it’s not his main motivation (the money is mostly stolen to pay allies or please family members, not for himself), even the alleged personal wealth under the control of a dumb front man is probably rather party money to keep the media empire and campaigns.

    From your description, he appears to be of the same type as the Daley family of Chicago. Corrupt primarily for the purpose of power. Daley controlled Chicago for decades, distributing access to corrupt means of generating wealth to sponsors and handing out wealth to his vassals in exchange for political loyalty, without cashing in much himself. This is the modest house in a working-class Irish neighborhood where Mayor Daley, who controlled America’s second largest city for 23 years, lived his entire life:

    His son was mayor was another 20+ years. The son treated himself a bit more.

    The Daleys were not nearly as effective as someone like Bloomberg, but were certainly better managers than were progressive activist-mayors; they had some common sense, and did not want to wreck their “patrimony”, so their Chicago was not ruined like Detroit, Seattle, or San Francisco were ruined. Hungary could do worse than Orban.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I mostly agree, but Orbán’s personal living standard is pretty high, and it’s difficult to say how much of it is coming from the government. Already between 2002-10 while he was just the leader of the opposition I got the impression that he had a significantly higher living standard than would be explained by his salary alone. He had for example an armored car and bodyguards, provided by his party, and he was said to have had no cellphone himself (actually I periodically hear such stories, last time a few years ago, so probably still true), as he had a retinue with gatekeepers to handle his communications.

    His personal wealth was modest, but he had several houses and some land (some under his wife’s name, who was a relatively successful agricultural entrepreneur - questionable if she handled it or Orbán’s people helped her with it), overall I got the impression his personal living standard was very high relative to his salary.

    But obviously it’s not his main concern.

  106. @AP

    He is corrupt, even, it appears, personally, but certainly it’s not his main motivation (the money is mostly stolen to pay allies or please family members, not for himself), even the alleged personal wealth under the control of a dumb front man is probably rather party money to keep the media empire and campaigns.
     
    From your description, he appears to be of the same type as the Daley family of Chicago. Corrupt primarily for the purpose of power. Daley controlled Chicago for decades, distributing access to corrupt means of generating wealth to sponsors and handing out wealth to his vassals in exchange for political loyalty, without cashing in much himself. This is the modest house in a working-class Irish neighborhood where Mayor Daley, who controlled America's second largest city for 23 years, lived his entire life:

    https://live.staticflickr.com/4440/35869534694_8fe63baef1_b.jpg

    His son was mayor was another 20+ years. The son treated himself a bit more.

    The Daleys were not nearly as effective as someone like Bloomberg, but were certainly better managers than were progressive activist-mayors; they had some common sense, and did not want to wreck their "patrimony", so their Chicago was not ruined like Detroit, Seattle, or San Francisco were ruined. Hungary could do worse than Orban.

    I mostly agree, but Orbán’s personal living standard is pretty high, and it’s difficult to say how much of it is coming from the government. Already between 2002-10 while he was just the leader of the opposition I got the impression that he had a significantly higher living standard than would be explained by his salary alone. He had for example an armored car and bodyguards, provided by his party, and he was said to have had no cellphone himself (actually I periodically hear such stories, last time a few years ago, so probably still true), as he had a retinue with gatekeepers to handle his communications.

    His personal wealth was modest, but he had several houses and some land (some under his wife’s name, who was a relatively successful agricultural entrepreneur – questionable if she handled it or Orbán’s people helped her with it), overall I got the impression his personal living standard was very high relative to his salary.

    But obviously it’s not his main concern.

  107. @YetAnotherAnon
    The most eugenic policy change in Britain, after decades of dysgenic policy decisions, was Cameron/Osborne in 2015, when it was decided that, going forward, benefits would only be paid for the first two children (existing multi baby mamas kept their bennies). While it won't have completely stopped the "have a kid and get a council house/flat" brigade, it does mean you can't keep having one every three years from 19 to 35 without imposing great hardship on yourself and the kids.

    "No tax for four kids" would need some limits - I could see foreign and domestic billionaires being advised by accountants to divorce and get a brood mare in for tax reasons. But say, "no tax on incomes up to £90,000" would be a huge boost for the middle classes, while being a tiny relative increase for the very rich.

    At the moment a man earning, say, £60k in Britain, supporting stay at home wife and four kids, will be taxed exactly the same as a single man. But the only way he could afford a SAHM is if the mortgage is low - that makes a huge difference and is almost impossible now unless he lives in County Durham or the less picturesque bits of Cumbria or Wales, where he can still find affordable houses (cos employment prospects are poor).

    The no income tax, after four kids, only applies to the mother’s income.

    Seems reasonable to me. Women with large families generally work low prestige jobs, which don’t account for much of the tax base. Given that, I don’t know whether it is really a great inducement in itself, but it is at least a positive signal.

  108. @Daniel Chieh

    The data set is not mine. One of the top authors on Unz.com, AUDACIOUS EPIGONE, created the charts.
     
    There's nothing wrong with the data set. Its how you're applying it; the essential question is "what is the general distribution of high IQ individuals," which slants a certain way due to how information is processed by brains. I linked you to some posts by our dear host which further discuss that - there's also demographic information from SSC, which is a fairly good hub of high IQ and interesting discussion worth following up on:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/03/17/ssc-survey-2017-results/

    https://i.imgur.com/MhP8eH0.png

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe. Being a member of the SJW Globalist tribe requires blind obedience to its articles of faith.

     

    I think it can be a stretch; I qualify that because many leftist organizations are indeed essentially as you say it is. I'm familiar with antifa and it has insanely cultlike trappings, which permit it to be used as shocktroopers.

    However, this isn't anything new; individual with low IQ tend to fall for incredibly nutty things of no real meaning:

    http://journal.sjdm.org/15/15923a/jdm15923a.pdf


    Here we focus on pseudo-profound bullshit, which
    consists of seemingly impressive assertions that are presented as true and meaningful but are actually vacuous. We presented
    participants with bullshit statements consisting of buzzwords randomly organized into statements with syntactic structure but
    no discernible meaning (e.g., “Wholeness quiets infinite phenomena”).
     
    What I disagree with is rather that we should remove the tail ends where you'll find extremists and cultists of all sorts, and this is where the more meaningful attributes of more liberal attitudes and their advantages come into play.

    For example, Scandic countries gets a lot of Sweden Yes jokes and it is indeed pretty self-destructive. But I've always admired the open source community and its not a surprise that Linus Torvalds, Markus Persson, Johan Andersson, etc all hail from there. The notion of open source is really quite anti-tribal: you make things for free and give them away, so that others will make things for free and give them to you. But in software, it really works and has given us unbelievably beautiful libraries and programs. In its general mentality, this kind of generous attitude is incredibly powerful and allows unbelievable advancement: it is indeed "inclusive" and "socialistic" and it works in ways that purely for-profit and anti-sharing work really can't do. It is essentially a high IQ mentality with low time preference and a transcendent attitude.

    And yet, it is also then not a surprise that Guido van Rossum(the creator of Python) will just take a few steps further and become a hardcore leftist:

    The Programmer who created Python isn't interested in mentoring white guys

    He believes the key to making open-source communities more inclusive is establishing (and enforcing) codes of conduct and mentoring. Van Rossum says that he now mentors women and underrepresented minority programmers. “But white guys can forget it,” he said. “They are not the ones who need it most.” (In typical programmer speak, he calls mentoring a “completely distributed, democratic approach.”)

     

    The long and short of it is that there are distributions, these distributions exist for reason(that more flexible approaches tend to be intelligent approaches), but even so, as Paracelsus said, the dose makes the poison. What applies to medicine also applies to their more inclusive views.

    I am having difficulty following your argument.

    What I disagree with is rather that we should remove the tail ends where you’ll find extremists and cultists of all sorts,

    Then you go to the story of one person who is a tail end case.

    Although, it is worth noting that the person that you mention is certainly a SJW Globlist:
    — Openly Racist — Discriminates against Caucasians
    — Openly Sexist — Discriminates against Males
    ____

    I concur with your idea about removing the tail ends.

    Let us look at the core values of the middle of the distribution of the Elite SJW Globalist tribe.

    -A- They believe in controls on speech and dissent. This is expressed in a tribal code via terms like “triggering”, “safe spaces”, and “Political Correctness”.

    On college campuses the situation is worse. Free speech is actively punished and penalized to protect the emotions of SJW Globalists. This further reinforces and intensifies the closed-minded insular character of this tribe.

    -B- They actively support Science Denial. Let me repeat my example … SJW Globalist theology insists that high-availability hydrocarbon power can be economically replaced with intermittent/low-availability solar and wind power. Anyone with even an average level of intelligence can easily find multiple glaring flaws with this anti-science, dogmatic religious edict.

    To believe the things that the bulk of Elite SJW Globalists believe — strongly indicates that the mean IQ of this population is substantially lower than the mean of the U.S. population as a whole.

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I'll be happy to address your comments once you've indicated some awareness of having read any of the demographic information that I've provided.

    And as per the Coffee Salon Demographics, having a substantial number of people with patently "insane" ideas is hugely benefit for advancement. Platonic idealism requires an obscenely abstract vision of essentialism, religion demands belief in violations of common sense, and even our kind host has spent an enormous amount of time speculating on simulated reality.

    There's a link for that too.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/katechon/

  109. @AP

    However, the mean IQ for the SJW Globalists is abysmally low. One of the key dogmas of SJW Globalist, Elite 1% theology is Science Denial. As a result the SJW Globalist, Low IQ tribe is prone to over react with hysterical levels of emotion and propose irrational solutions that defy physical reality.
     
    Having weird and wrong ideas is certainly not antithetical to high intelligence. Highly intelligent people can come up with very complex and clever rationalizations for their wrong ideas. Have you ever spoken to a highly intelligent paranoid person?

    A person of low average intelligence who follows "common sense" is often more correct than a brilliant person brilliantly advocating for some wrong or nonsensical idea.

    For whatever reason, science denialism on certain subjects is very fashionable currently, and therefore the smarter one is, the more sophisticated one's arguments (and therefore the stronger one's conviction) for silly ideas. This is true not only with respect to science denialists but also true of science "totalists."

    A person of low average intelligence who follows “common sense” is often more correct than a brilliant person brilliantly advocating for some wrong or nonsensical idea.

    It would be helpful to have a Common Sense Quotient [CSQ] to go along with IQ.

    Is a person using convoluted arguments to oppose obvious physical reality actually smart? Or, is it a special kind of stupid? IQ packages several different concepts together in one number.

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I should add that in my own personal experience and that of other highly intelligent people, high IQ(itself indeed fuzzily defined, but ultimately a kind of "ability to solve puzzles") does lead itself to increasingly "weird" thinking because its boring otherwise.

    Red might be red and that's all that matters, for example, but it gets boring to just brush that off even though its functional, so you're going to get someone who instead obsesses over the principle of qualia of red, even though its useless for almost everyone:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

    There are recognizable qualitative characters of the given, which may be repeated in different experiences, and are thus a sort of universals; I call these "qualia." But although such qualia are universals, in the sense of being recognized from one to another experience, they must be distinguished from the properties of objects. Confusion of these two is characteristic of many historical conceptions, as well as of current essence-theories. The quale is directly intuited, given, and is not the subject of any possible error because it is purely subjective.
     
    Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, actually believed that was ultimately all a kind of intellectual self-masturbation or "surrogate goals" executed by intelligent people because we as a society have already destroyed all "normal goals" of survival, reproduction, physical contest, etc. It may or may not be, but its my opinion that a lot of people with high IQ will engage in it because, well, its fun.
  110. @A123
    I am having difficulty following your argument.


    What I disagree with is rather that we should remove the tail ends where you’ll find extremists and cultists of all sorts,

     

    Then you go to the story of one person who is a tail end case.

    Although, it is worth noting that the person that you mention is certainly a SJW Globlist:
    -- Openly Racist -- Discriminates against Caucasians
    -- Openly Sexist -- Discriminates against Males
    ____

    I concur with your idea about removing the tail ends.

    Let us look at the core values of the middle of the distribution of the Elite SJW Globalist tribe.

    -A- They believe in controls on speech and dissent. This is expressed in a tribal code via terms like "triggering", "safe spaces", and "Political Correctness".

    On college campuses the situation is worse. Free speech is actively punished and penalized to protect the emotions of SJW Globalists. This further reinforces and intensifies the closed-minded insular character of this tribe.

    -B- They actively support Science Denial. Let me repeat my example ... SJW Globalist theology insists that high-availability hydrocarbon power can be economically replaced with intermittent/low-availability solar and wind power. Anyone with even an average level of intelligence can easily find multiple glaring flaws with this anti-science, dogmatic religious edict.

    To believe the things that the bulk of Elite SJW Globalists believe -- strongly indicates that the mean IQ of this population is substantially lower than the mean of the U.S. population as a whole.

    PEACE 😷

    I’ll be happy to address your comments once you’ve indicated some awareness of having read any of the demographic information that I’ve provided.

    And as per the Coffee Salon Demographics, having a substantial number of people with patently “insane” ideas is hugely benefit for advancement. Platonic idealism requires an obscenely abstract vision of essentialism, religion demands belief in violations of common sense, and even our kind host has spent an enormous amount of time speculating on simulated reality.

    There’s a link for that too.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/katechon/

    • Replies: @A123
    Thank you for conceding that I am correct. I accept your surrender.

    You 100% failed to provide scientific evidence directly tied to the group in question "SJW Globalists".

    Off point links to irrelevant articles about other groups was a painfully obvious attempt to duck the question.

    PEACE 😷
  111. @A123

    A person of low average intelligence who follows “common sense” is often more correct than a brilliant person brilliantly advocating for some wrong or nonsensical idea.
     
    It would be helpful to have a Common Sense Quotient [CSQ] to go along with IQ.

    Is a person using convoluted arguments to oppose obvious physical reality actually smart? Or, is it a special kind of stupid? IQ packages several different concepts together in one number.

    PEACE 😷

    I should add that in my own personal experience and that of other highly intelligent people, high IQ(itself indeed fuzzily defined, but ultimately a kind of “ability to solve puzzles”) does lead itself to increasingly “weird” thinking because its boring otherwise.

    Red might be red and that’s all that matters, for example, but it gets boring to just brush that off even though its functional, so you’re going to get someone who instead obsesses over the principle of qualia of red, even though its useless for almost everyone:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

    There are recognizable qualitative characters of the given, which may be repeated in different experiences, and are thus a sort of universals; I call these “qualia.” But although such qualia are universals, in the sense of being recognized from one to another experience, they must be distinguished from the properties of objects. Confusion of these two is characteristic of many historical conceptions, as well as of current essence-theories. The quale is directly intuited, given, and is not the subject of any possible error because it is purely subjective.

    Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, actually believed that was ultimately all a kind of intellectual self-masturbation or “surrogate goals” executed by intelligent people because we as a society have already destroyed all “normal goals” of survival, reproduction, physical contest, etc. It may or may not be, but its my opinion that a lot of people with high IQ will engage in it because, well, its fun.

    • Replies: @AP
    Whether it is this stuff, or Tolkien, or Chinese weltanschauung - your posts are a treasure to read. Thank you.
  112. @Daniel Chieh
    I should add that in my own personal experience and that of other highly intelligent people, high IQ(itself indeed fuzzily defined, but ultimately a kind of "ability to solve puzzles") does lead itself to increasingly "weird" thinking because its boring otherwise.

    Red might be red and that's all that matters, for example, but it gets boring to just brush that off even though its functional, so you're going to get someone who instead obsesses over the principle of qualia of red, even though its useless for almost everyone:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

    There are recognizable qualitative characters of the given, which may be repeated in different experiences, and are thus a sort of universals; I call these "qualia." But although such qualia are universals, in the sense of being recognized from one to another experience, they must be distinguished from the properties of objects. Confusion of these two is characteristic of many historical conceptions, as well as of current essence-theories. The quale is directly intuited, given, and is not the subject of any possible error because it is purely subjective.
     
    Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, actually believed that was ultimately all a kind of intellectual self-masturbation or "surrogate goals" executed by intelligent people because we as a society have already destroyed all "normal goals" of survival, reproduction, physical contest, etc. It may or may not be, but its my opinion that a lot of people with high IQ will engage in it because, well, its fun.

    Whether it is this stuff, or Tolkien, or Chinese weltanschauung – your posts are a treasure to read. Thank you.

    • Thanks: Daniel Chieh
  113. @Daniel Chieh
    I'll be happy to address your comments once you've indicated some awareness of having read any of the demographic information that I've provided.

    And as per the Coffee Salon Demographics, having a substantial number of people with patently "insane" ideas is hugely benefit for advancement. Platonic idealism requires an obscenely abstract vision of essentialism, religion demands belief in violations of common sense, and even our kind host has spent an enormous amount of time speculating on simulated reality.

    There's a link for that too.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/katechon/

    Thank you for conceding that I am correct. I accept your surrender.

    You 100% failed to provide scientific evidence directly tied to the group in question “SJW Globalists”.

    Off point links to irrelevant articles about other groups was a painfully obvious attempt to duck the question.

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Please find your True Scotsmen elsewhere.
  114. @A123
    Thank you for conceding that I am correct. I accept your surrender.

    You 100% failed to provide scientific evidence directly tied to the group in question "SJW Globalists".

    Off point links to irrelevant articles about other groups was a painfully obvious attempt to duck the question.

    PEACE 😷

    Please find your True Scotsmen elsewhere.

    • Replies: @A123
    Using William Wallace (a.k.a. Braveheart) as the model, True Scotsman are willing to face the opposition though they might lose.

    I am having difficulty finding a link between:
    -- True Scotsman that face their foes, and
    -- Surrender Critters who flee their foes

    PEACE 😷
  115. (via Milo on Gab)

    • Replies: @iffen
    Since Thor is MIA: 1 eight, 1 seven, 1 five, 2 fours and 1 one.
  116. @Daniel Chieh
    Please find your True Scotsmen elsewhere.

    Using William Wallace (a.k.a. Braveheart) as the model, True Scotsman are willing to face the opposition though they might lose.

    I am having difficulty finding a link between:
    — True Scotsman that face their foes, and
    — Surrender Critters who flee their foes

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    And that reply, I do think, does promptly demonstrate the level of intelligence that we're dealing with here. Please do google when you actually find the ability to do so.

    Ta-ta.

  117. @A123
    Using William Wallace (a.k.a. Braveheart) as the model, True Scotsman are willing to face the opposition though they might lose.

    I am having difficulty finding a link between:
    -- True Scotsman that face their foes, and
    -- Surrender Critters who flee their foes

    PEACE 😷

    And that reply, I do think, does promptly demonstrate the level of intelligence that we’re dealing with here. Please do google when you actually find the ability to do so.

    Ta-ta.

    • Replies: @A123
    We know exactly who is insular, refusing to answer simple questions. Along with that comes an obviously below average IQ and an SJW emotional "frightened flight" reaction.

    Bye...

    PEACE 😷
  118. @Daniel Chieh
    And that reply, I do think, does promptly demonstrate the level of intelligence that we're dealing with here. Please do google when you actually find the ability to do so.

    Ta-ta.

    We know exactly who is insular, refusing to answer simple questions. Along with that comes an obviously below average IQ and an SJW emotional “frightened flight” reaction.

    Bye…

    PEACE 😷

  119. haha rubber stamp go thud

    • LOL: Tusk, Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @A123
    Wow! A European Christian standing up for Christian values.

    When will Pope Orban the 1st replace the current travesty and known enemy of Christian values, Pope Muhammad Francis of Islam?

    PEACE 😷
    , @songbird
    Honestly, I'm kind of shocked that this sort of thing was allowed in Hungary, to start with - I'm talking about the trannies, of course.
  120. @Europe Europa
    I always find it odd how the policy of paying women to reproduce is considered a right wing, "based" policy in Hungary and Eastern Europe generally. In the UK if any government proposed such a policy (beyond the benefits that already exist), it would be the right wingers who would be outraged and hugely opposed to it.

    There’s that, but there’s also this: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/where-leftism-is-conservatism/

  121. @Anatoly Karlin
    haha rubber stamp go thud

    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1245382645086904320

    Wow! A European Christian standing up for Christian values.

    When will Pope Orban the 1st replace the current travesty and known enemy of Christian values, Pope Muhammad Francis of Islam?

    PEACE 😷

  122. @Peter Akuleyev
    Orban is simply a gangster. He is not a devout Christian, he has no ideology other than turning Hungary into a personal fiefdom and maximising his own wealth and power. He has driven thousands of high IQ Hungarians out of the country, turned most of the economy over to global car manufacturers and depends on EU subsidies to keep the lights on. Why do so called “patriots” continually fall for frauds like Orban, Putin, Erdogan and Trump? None of these people build anything, they just try to suck out whatever wealth is left in their countries as long as they can. It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.

    It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.

    It’s starting to look that way. By the time the dust settles from the CV crisis/panic they may be the only ones left with functioning societies.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
    Progress will eventually halt, East Asians are a low-creativity people who are good at acing SATs and whatnot, but whose less-borinf achievements are few and far between. East Asia has benefitted massively from Europeans generosity and transfer of technology. This is why so many of them come to our universities for PhDs and also to work in our top companies, they need a source of creative knowledge.

    Europeans are good at creating things and implementing it, East Asians are only good at the implementation. SL we will see their societies continue to function with good infrastructure, but progress will be minimal if White nations truly become shambolic and dysfunctional.
  123. @Anatoly Karlin
    haha rubber stamp go thud

    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1245382645086904320

    Honestly, I’m kind of shocked that this sort of thing was allowed in Hungary, to start with – I’m talking about the trannies, of course.

  124. @iffen
    Higher IQ is correlated to dominance of the prefrontal cortex and downregulates the amygdala’s more direct “disgust” efforts; as such, higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

    What if one's higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the "best" option?

    Both are possible, don't you think?

    What if one’s higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the “best” option?

    It’s theoretically possible. In practice it’s very uncommon.

    In practice whites who advocate tribalism for whites tend to be pretty low IQ.

    Another problem with IQ is that high IQ seems to make it easy for people to accept ideas that sound great in theory but are in practice completely unworkable. High IQ people love theories. They dislike reality. Because reality is messy and lacks the intellectual elegance of theory.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Another problem with IQ is that high IQ seems to make it easy for people to accept ideas that sound great in theory but are in practice completely unworkable.

    Looking at you blank slaters, commies and fellow travelers.
  125. @Daniel Chieh
    Entirely possible and its not like pro-tribalists are always lacking in IQ. John Derbyshire isn't dim at all, for example. In general, high IQ helps you justify anything you want to believe.

    A tendency for or another of a population group having a trait is not an exclusive sentence of their behavior or positions.

    In general, high IQ helps you justify anything you want to believe.

    An excellent point.

    • Agree: Haruto Rat
  126. @A123

    Your data set is completely insane and makes a number of unfounded assumptions.
     
    The data set is not mine. One of the top authors on Unz.com, AUDACIOUS EPIGONE, created the charts.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/loony-libs-callous-cons/


    Indeed, the hyperbolic emotional language goes well what I indicate
     
    You introduced the term tribalism ... Let me refresh your memory:

    #47 by DC: ... higher IQ correlates both with less immediate feedback/dominance from the limbic system as well as less tribalism.

     

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe. Being a member of the SJW Globalist tribe requires blind obedience to its articles of faith.

    Hungary's Orban is taking rational and restrained steps to protect his people from the stupid, yet highly aggressive, SJW Globalist tribe.


    Someone who is consistently liberal but intelligent would be someone like Bill Gates
     
    In any large tribal population, IQ will have a distribution. It is almost inevitable that there will be a few Higher IQ, SJW Globalists in the distribution tail. Gates and Soros are good examples.

    However, the mean IQ for the SJW Globalists is abysmally low. One of the key dogmas of SJW Globalist, Elite 1% theology is Science Denial. As a result the SJW Globalist, Low IQ tribe is prone to over react with hysterical levels of emotion and propose irrational solutions that defy physical reality.

    For example, SJW Globalist theology insists that high-availability hydrocarbon power can be economically replaced with intermittent/low-availability solar and wind power. Anyone with even an average level of intelligence can easily find multiple glaring flaws with this anti-science, dogmatic religious edict.

    PEACE 😷

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe.

    That’s stretching the definition of tribe quite bit. I think most people would consider tribe to be based on race or ethnicity or culture.

    The globalist SJW elite are not a tribe. They’re a class. Tribe and class are very very different things.

    • Replies: @A123

    That’s stretching the definition of tribe quite bit. I think most people would consider tribe to be based on race or ethnicity or culture.
     
    Based on "culture" the shared and enforced values of SJW Globalism work like a tribe.

    Marriage Reproductive grouping also fits the tribal pattern. It is almost always exclusive among SJW Globalists. These children inherit genetic traits like "low IQ" and "acceptance of authority". Thus, they are good candidates for perpetuating SJW tribal values.

    There are always a few tail cases that are non-compliant, don't let rare exceptions confuse you. Though if you can explain James Carville + Mary Maitlan?

    PEACE 😷

  127. @Fidelios Automata
    This is worrisome because I like Orban and don't want to see him succumbing to the corruption of having absolute power. But it's really not much different than what Boris Johnson is doing in Britain.

    Johnson will be subject to parliamentary scrutiny once parliament resumes on the 21st of April after the Easter recess. Orban has placed no such time limits on his decree.

  128. @dfordoom

    All I did was accurately identify SJW Elite 1% Globalism as a highly insular tribe.
     
    That's stretching the definition of tribe quite bit. I think most people would consider tribe to be based on race or ethnicity or culture.

    The globalist SJW elite are not a tribe. They're a class. Tribe and class are very very different things.

    That’s stretching the definition of tribe quite bit. I think most people would consider tribe to be based on race or ethnicity or culture.

    Based on “culture” the shared and enforced values of SJW Globalism work like a tribe.

    Marriage Reproductive grouping also fits the tribal pattern. It is almost always exclusive among SJW Globalists. These children inherit genetic traits like “low IQ” and “acceptance of authority”. Thus, they are good candidates for perpetuating SJW tribal values.

    There are always a few tail cases that are non-compliant, don’t let rare exceptions confuse you. Though if you can explain James Carville + Mary Maitlan?

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Based on “culture” the shared and enforced values of SJW Globalism work like a tribe.
     
    Given that the elites include different ethnicities I think it's misleading to describe them as a tribe unless you broaden the definition of tribe so far that the term becomes meaningless.

    Classes have their own culture and their own shared and enforced values. They have their own very strong class interests. So I don't see what's wrong with seeing the elites as a class? They are so clearly a class that I can't see how one can avoid describing them as such unless one has a political objection to admitting the existence of class.
  129. @dfordoom

    It really looks like the future belongs to East Asia at this point.
     
    It's starting to look that way. By the time the dust settles from the CV crisis/panic they may be the only ones left with functioning societies.

    Progress will eventually halt, East Asians are a low-creativity people who are good at acing SATs and whatnot, but whose less-borinf achievements are few and far between. East Asia has benefitted massively from Europeans generosity and transfer of technology. This is why so many of them come to our universities for PhDs and also to work in our top companies, they need a source of creative knowledge.

    Europeans are good at creating things and implementing it, East Asians are only good at the implementation. SL we will see their societies continue to function with good infrastructure, but progress will be minimal if White nations truly become shambolic and dysfunctional.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Europeans are good at creating things and implementing it, East Asians are only good at the implementation.
     
    Europeans are also much better at breaking things, such as their own societies. And Europeans seem to be getting increasingly good at breaking things. Maybe creativity is actually a destructive force?

    Or maybe the entire notion of some magical quality called "creativity" is just a way for people to cope with the unpleasant fact that European and European-derived societies are becoming increasingly dysfunctional while those inferior "non-creative" Asian societies are becoming increasingly functional?
  130. @A123

    That’s stretching the definition of tribe quite bit. I think most people would consider tribe to be based on race or ethnicity or culture.
     
    Based on "culture" the shared and enforced values of SJW Globalism work like a tribe.

    Marriage Reproductive grouping also fits the tribal pattern. It is almost always exclusive among SJW Globalists. These children inherit genetic traits like "low IQ" and "acceptance of authority". Thus, they are good candidates for perpetuating SJW tribal values.

    There are always a few tail cases that are non-compliant, don't let rare exceptions confuse you. Though if you can explain James Carville + Mary Maitlan?

    PEACE 😷

    Based on “culture” the shared and enforced values of SJW Globalism work like a tribe.

    Given that the elites include different ethnicities I think it’s misleading to describe them as a tribe unless you broaden the definition of tribe so far that the term becomes meaningless.

    Classes have their own culture and their own shared and enforced values. They have their own very strong class interests. So I don’t see what’s wrong with seeing the elites as a class? They are so clearly a class that I can’t see how one can avoid describing them as such unless one has a political objection to admitting the existence of class.

    • Agree: iffen
  131. @Just Passing Through
    Progress will eventually halt, East Asians are a low-creativity people who are good at acing SATs and whatnot, but whose less-borinf achievements are few and far between. East Asia has benefitted massively from Europeans generosity and transfer of technology. This is why so many of them come to our universities for PhDs and also to work in our top companies, they need a source of creative knowledge.

    Europeans are good at creating things and implementing it, East Asians are only good at the implementation. SL we will see their societies continue to function with good infrastructure, but progress will be minimal if White nations truly become shambolic and dysfunctional.

    Europeans are good at creating things and implementing it, East Asians are only good at the implementation.

    Europeans are also much better at breaking things, such as their own societies. And Europeans seem to be getting increasingly good at breaking things. Maybe creativity is actually a destructive force?

    Or maybe the entire notion of some magical quality called “creativity” is just a way for people to cope with the unpleasant fact that European and European-derived societies are becoming increasingly dysfunctional while those inferior “non-creative” Asian societies are becoming increasingly functional?

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
    When you say "Europeans" breaking things you surely mean "(((Europeans)))". It is simply bad luck that Jews happened to look like Europeans and could thus ingrain themselves into their societies.

    If not for them, Europe would forever rule this earth. The National Socialists for own would never have betrayed their folk and given everything to the Chinese, and the Chinese would currently be under Japanese subjugation and the Japanese themselves would be far less creative than the Germans.

    When I said East Asian societies are better at implementing things than Jew'd European societies, I mean their countries will be clean and orderly, just like Europe would have been had the good guys won in WW2, but they will not progress much as only Europeans are really capable of advancing the state of society.
  132. @dfordoom

    Europeans are good at creating things and implementing it, East Asians are only good at the implementation.
     
    Europeans are also much better at breaking things, such as their own societies. And Europeans seem to be getting increasingly good at breaking things. Maybe creativity is actually a destructive force?

    Or maybe the entire notion of some magical quality called "creativity" is just a way for people to cope with the unpleasant fact that European and European-derived societies are becoming increasingly dysfunctional while those inferior "non-creative" Asian societies are becoming increasingly functional?

    When you say “Europeans” breaking things you surely mean “(((Europeans)))”. It is simply bad luck that Jews happened to look like Europeans and could thus ingrain themselves into their societies.

    If not for them, Europe would forever rule this earth. The National Socialists for own would never have betrayed their folk and given everything to the Chinese, and the Chinese would currently be under Japanese subjugation and the Japanese themselves would be far less creative than the Germans.

    When I said East Asian societies are better at implementing things than Jew’d European societies, I mean their countries will be clean and orderly, just like Europe would have been had the good guys won in WW2, but they will not progress much as only Europeans are really capable of advancing the state of society.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    just like Europe would have been had the good guys won in WW2
     
    Oh Lord, another Hitler fanboy.
  133. @Just Passing Through
    When you say "Europeans" breaking things you surely mean "(((Europeans)))". It is simply bad luck that Jews happened to look like Europeans and could thus ingrain themselves into their societies.

    If not for them, Europe would forever rule this earth. The National Socialists for own would never have betrayed their folk and given everything to the Chinese, and the Chinese would currently be under Japanese subjugation and the Japanese themselves would be far less creative than the Germans.

    When I said East Asian societies are better at implementing things than Jew'd European societies, I mean their countries will be clean and orderly, just like Europe would have been had the good guys won in WW2, but they will not progress much as only Europeans are really capable of advancing the state of society.

    just like Europe would have been had the good guys won in WW2

    Oh Lord, another Hitler fanboy.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    The Nazis were never known for self-purging their own or for having incessant internal conflicts, after all.
    , @Just Passing Through
    Can you deny that the decay of the European peoples began after the defeat of National Socialist Germany? Here in the UK, merely 3 years after our boys had put in blood, sweat and tears into fighting evil fascist moustache man, we started getting our first dose of Diversity with the docking of the HMT Empire Windrush on our shores, with its consignment of Carribbean Negroes who went on to cause havoc in our inner cities and towns.

    The Empire Windrush was actually a captured German ship, originally named the MV Monte Rosa whose purpose was to serve as a recreational leisure ship for the German Volk, in the pioneering Work Through Joy program which allowed workers to get state subsidies holidays, such was the love that Hitler had for his people.

    So ironically, a ship whose original purpose was to give pleasure and vigour to the Aryan Race was then used to destroy it. Can't say the Jews do not have a wicked sense of humour.

  134. @dfordoom

    just like Europe would have been had the good guys won in WW2
     
    Oh Lord, another Hitler fanboy.

    The Nazis were never known for self-purging their own or for having incessant internal conflicts, after all.

    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
    An inevitable part of organisations. This certainly also happens in the Chinese government, all those bogus corruption charges used to bump of political opponents.
  135. @dfordoom

    What if one’s higher IQ allows you to see that tribalism is the “best” option?
     
    It's theoretically possible. In practice it's very uncommon.

    In practice whites who advocate tribalism for whites tend to be pretty low IQ.

    Another problem with IQ is that high IQ seems to make it easy for people to accept ideas that sound great in theory but are in practice completely unworkable. High IQ people love theories. They dislike reality. Because reality is messy and lacks the intellectual elegance of theory.

    Another problem with IQ is that high IQ seems to make it easy for people to accept ideas that sound great in theory but are in practice completely unworkable.

    Looking at you blank slaters, commies and fellow travelers.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
  136. @YetAnotherAnon
    (via Milo on Gab)

    https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/041/968/401/original/8148ec938b7833c2.jpeg

    Since Thor is MIA: 1 eight, 1 seven, 1 five, 2 fours and 1 one.

  137. @dfordoom

    just like Europe would have been had the good guys won in WW2
     
    Oh Lord, another Hitler fanboy.

    Can you deny that the decay of the European peoples began after the defeat of National Socialist Germany? Here in the UK, merely 3 years after our boys had put in blood, sweat and tears into fighting evil fascist moustache man, we started getting our first dose of Diversity with the docking of the HMT Empire Windrush on our shores, with its consignment of Carribbean Negroes who went on to cause havoc in our inner cities and towns.

    The Empire Windrush was actually a captured German ship, originally named the MV Monte Rosa whose purpose was to serve as a recreational leisure ship for the German Volk, in the pioneering Work Through Joy program which allowed workers to get state subsidies holidays, such was the love that Hitler had for his people.

    So ironically, a ship whose original purpose was to give pleasure and vigour to the Aryan Race was then used to destroy it. Can’t say the Jews do not have a wicked sense of humour.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Can you deny that the decay of the European peoples began after the defeat of National Socialist Germany?
     
    The decay of the European peoples began when they butchered each other in the First World War.

    Colonialism and imperialism also played a major part in the decay of the European peoples.

    The Nazis put the final nail in the coffin of European civilisation. Your hero Hitler doomed European civilisation.
  138. @Daniel Chieh
    The Nazis were never known for self-purging their own or for having incessant internal conflicts, after all.

    An inevitable part of organisations. This certainly also happens in the Chinese government, all those bogus corruption charges used to bump of political opponents.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Congratulations, you've come to realize human universals. Now keep up that level of thinking and you'll discover why your utopia won't function either(or have ever come to existence then or now).

    Hitler would probably have purged you, btw.
  139. @Just Passing Through
    Can you deny that the decay of the European peoples began after the defeat of National Socialist Germany? Here in the UK, merely 3 years after our boys had put in blood, sweat and tears into fighting evil fascist moustache man, we started getting our first dose of Diversity with the docking of the HMT Empire Windrush on our shores, with its consignment of Carribbean Negroes who went on to cause havoc in our inner cities and towns.

    The Empire Windrush was actually a captured German ship, originally named the MV Monte Rosa whose purpose was to serve as a recreational leisure ship for the German Volk, in the pioneering Work Through Joy program which allowed workers to get state subsidies holidays, such was the love that Hitler had for his people.

    So ironically, a ship whose original purpose was to give pleasure and vigour to the Aryan Race was then used to destroy it. Can't say the Jews do not have a wicked sense of humour.

    Can you deny that the decay of the European peoples began after the defeat of National Socialist Germany?

    The decay of the European peoples began when they butchered each other in the First World War.

    Colonialism and imperialism also played a major part in the decay of the European peoples.

    The Nazis put the final nail in the coffin of European civilisation. Your hero Hitler doomed European civilisation.

  140. @Just Passing Through
    An inevitable part of organisations. This certainly also happens in the Chinese government, all those bogus corruption charges used to bump of political opponents.

    Congratulations, you’ve come to realize human universals. Now keep up that level of thinking and you’ll discover why your utopia won’t function either(or have ever come to existence then or now).

    Hitler would probably have purged you, btw.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
    Cringe, this is what anti-NS people do when they have no real argument, they just say "oh you would be purged because X"

    I probably wouldn't be a high-level member and would not have been purged.

    Hitler was the greatest European who ever lived and Chinese should be thanking Anglo-Jewish elite for destroying the sacred ideology of National Socialism, as this allowed you Chinese to rise out of the mud and become what you are today.

    Progress will get stalled once Whites are gone, Chinese society will still be like it is today - nice, orderly and clean but there will be no real advancement as only the White mind is capable of such things.

    https://i.imgur.com/axMBgsy.jpg

  141. @Daniel Chieh
    Congratulations, you've come to realize human universals. Now keep up that level of thinking and you'll discover why your utopia won't function either(or have ever come to existence then or now).

    Hitler would probably have purged you, btw.

    Cringe, this is what anti-NS people do when they have no real argument, they just say “oh you would be purged because X”

    I probably wouldn’t be a high-level member and would not have been purged.

    Hitler was the greatest European who ever lived and Chinese should be thanking Anglo-Jewish elite for destroying the sacred ideology of National Socialism, as this allowed you Chinese to rise out of the mud and become what you are today.

    Progress will get stalled once Whites are gone, Chinese society will still be like it is today – nice, orderly and clean but there will be no real advancement as only the White mind is capable of such things.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    I probably wouldn’t be a high-level member and would not have been purged.

     

    You shouldn't be so certain of that. Hitler very consistently purged gays.
    , @Korenchkin

    Hitler was the greatest European who ever lived
     
    How about picking a German who didn't leave Germany in utter ruin, like Bismarck
    Even Bonaparte left France in a better state

    Intentions don't mean jack when they don't even remotely measure up to results, just ask the Communists
  142. @Just Passing Through
    Cringe, this is what anti-NS people do when they have no real argument, they just say "oh you would be purged because X"

    I probably wouldn't be a high-level member and would not have been purged.

    Hitler was the greatest European who ever lived and Chinese should be thanking Anglo-Jewish elite for destroying the sacred ideology of National Socialism, as this allowed you Chinese to rise out of the mud and become what you are today.

    Progress will get stalled once Whites are gone, Chinese society will still be like it is today - nice, orderly and clean but there will be no real advancement as only the White mind is capable of such things.

    https://i.imgur.com/axMBgsy.jpg

    I probably wouldn’t be a high-level member and would not have been purged.

    You shouldn’t be so certain of that. Hitler very consistently purged gays.

  143. @Just Passing Through
    Cringe, this is what anti-NS people do when they have no real argument, they just say "oh you would be purged because X"

    I probably wouldn't be a high-level member and would not have been purged.

    Hitler was the greatest European who ever lived and Chinese should be thanking Anglo-Jewish elite for destroying the sacred ideology of National Socialism, as this allowed you Chinese to rise out of the mud and become what you are today.

    Progress will get stalled once Whites are gone, Chinese society will still be like it is today - nice, orderly and clean but there will be no real advancement as only the White mind is capable of such things.

    https://i.imgur.com/axMBgsy.jpg

    Hitler was the greatest European who ever lived

    How about picking a German who didn’t leave Germany in utter ruin, like Bismarck
    Even Bonaparte left France in a better state

    Intentions don’t mean jack when they don’t even remotely measure up to results, just ask the Communists

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  144. God these wignat comments are so cringe Just Passing Through strikes me as a typical american wignat ranting on about wigger tier white nationalism and lumping all europeans into one group.
    I dont care about new world mutts and what they think but the Civilized Discussion Americans meme becomes a reality here

    Hitler’s national socialism was only for germans and not for huwhyte people

    do you want know what your hero hitler thought of americans? He considered them to be especially dangerous mongrels due to them being of mostly anglo stock and mind controlled by jews.

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