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Corona-Chan Blesses Greenland and Madagascar
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Greenland was infected a few days ago.

Madagascar closed its ports.

But their heresies did not avail them, for Our Lady will not be denied her mite.

Her loyal servants took her munificent blessings to the people of Madagascar.

So ensuring that the entire world is soon set free.

Pray for your salvation while time remains!

***

Anyhow, consider this an open thread.

 
• Tags: Corona, Humor, Open Thread 
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  1. This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    • Replies: @melanf
  2. Jatt Arya says:

    Such high levels of autism..

    BASED

    Also, FIRST.

    Finally,

    Um reminder that AK47s are cool.

  3. Mr. XYZ says:

    I like that thong on Corona-Chan! 🙂

    Anyway, since this is an open thread, here is an alternate history question for you:

    In the event that there would have been no Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in 1917, do you expect Akmola/Tsalinograd/Astana/Nur-Sultan to have remained a mid-sized provincial relative backwater up to the present-day–with its population never even actually reaching 500,000 people?

    I’m asking because I want to know if there was any *realistic* way for this city to actually acquire the same level of population, prestige, and glory (a lot of it was, after all, designed by a futuristic-style Japanese architect) that it indeed managed to acquire in real life.

    • Replies: @Svevlad
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  4. Max Payne says:

    This virus ain’t shit. A week ago I had my BP rise to something retarded like 213/110, intense fever, and a general feeling of death (so much so I relayed a few instructions to my dear brother in the event I should die). Did I bitch out like a fag and go to a doctor or hospital? NO! You know why? Because I don’t suck dick for a living. If I was carrying this flu I probably spread it to thousands and I am PROUD to have done so. I made sure to use cash as my major method of transaction so I can REALLY spread the love.

    Jesus…. I hope this thing is really as brutal as all the faggots say it is so people will fucking die and stop their idiotic illiterate retardese. Fuck Elon Musk!

    • Replies: @Ms Karlin-Gerard
  5. Mr. XYZ says:

    Also, while I’m asking, here’s another alternate history question: How do you think the Soviet Union would have developed had Lenin lived longer and thus been able to publish his Last Testament (or whatever else he’d call it in this scenario) and thus managed to get Stalin removed from his position as General Secretary? In such a scenario, who would Lenin’s successor have been and what would the Soviet Union’s entire history have looked like? Would there have still eventually been a Nazi rise to power in Germany, a WWII, the expansion of Communism into Eastern Europe, East Asia, and/or Southeast Asia, a Cold War, and an eventual Soviet collapse and Soviet break-up in this scenario? If so, would these events have occurred at roughly the same time as they did in real life or would they have been delayed in this scenario–and, if so, by just how much?

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  6. songbird says:

    Madagascar is a really fascinating country genetically.

    The Austronesians supposedly arrived first, beating Europeans only by about 1000 years. I wonder what explains the presence of so much African DNA there. Was it a Bantu military invasion? Or a slave revolt? Or runaway miscegenation with slaves or Bantu settlers?

    One of the puzzling aspects of it to me is that I would suppose Austronesians would be better fighters than Bantu, in terms of strategy and ability to organize. Don’t they have an IQ advantage? Perhaps, the Bantu brought African diseases with them that devastated the Austronesians.

    • Replies: @SIMP simp
  7. I’ve been a lurker with Karlin-san, and he seems intelligent and open-minded. I share part ancestry with AK, and have no problem with that personally, but the thing that strikes me about his HBD position, is that if he believes in that and thinks Russians have say a 95 IQ and is critical about the country and culture in a lot of ways as he seems to be, how can he also be a Russian nationalist? It’s like if you know Hershey’s chocolate isn’t that great and there are better chocolates out there, how can you be a Hershey’s chocolate nationalist?

    I personally am not convinced by HBD for various reasons – say West Indian performance relative to African American in the USA, Ukraine (as AK likes to point out), changes in relative success over generations, success of some supposedly “lowish IQ” groups like Greeks and Lebanese and Iranians in the USA, the massive success of supposedly low-IQ Indians in the USA, etc.

    But if I did believe in HBD, why would I be a nationalist for a so-so group by my own definition?

  8. I mean even though I don’t subscribe to HBD, I agree with AK on a lot of stuff – Russia is not simultaneously a god-like evil force and also Burkina Faso with nuclear weapons, Putin has done a pretty good job, especially compared to what came before (although his competency runs far more into geopolitics than to domestic economic development), and I even think AK is a bit too pessimistic about some stuff regarding Russia, like his belief in its inability to stay competitive in military technology.

    AK has a lot of interesting things to say beyond Russia, but just keeping it there, I get the sense Russia is still stuck with its Tsar model, where now they found a pretty good Tsar, but what’s going to happen when he is gone?

    • Replies: @yakushimaru
    , @yakushimaru
  9. @Lot

    People laughed at you, and rightly so. Bioweapons are indiscriminate by nature and there is no way our government could stealthily vaccinate 156 million people. 😂

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  10. @Felix Keverich

    He’s mocking our fearless overlord Ron Unz.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  11. @reiner Tor

    Actually, I think Ron Unz makes a lot of sense. US is the only country, that’s capable enough, evil enough and stupid enough to deploy Corona as bioweapon. US also has a plausible motive: to preserve its global hegemony. US was going to lose it, if things were proceeding normally, but a catastrophic event like Corona can shake things up. From the perspective of American ruling class, they had nothing to lose. These people are delusional psychopaths, highly addicted to power.

    • Replies: @JL
    , @reiner Tor
    , @UK
  12. JL says:
    @Felix Keverich

    They’re not THAT stupid. Or, if they are, then one only has to laugh at the extent of their own goal.

  13. @Mr. XYZ

    Lenin was a non-entity, he was deified by the Soviets precisely because he was inconsequential and died before he could enter the brawl for power.

    I doubt in your alternate history much would have changed. I’d guess Stalin would still be supreme leader.

  14. @streetshitter

    ‘HBD’ is a massive cope. Effectively, it’s saying that in the future African Century, ‘the West’ will still be on top, due to muh magic DNA, despite the massive dysgenics and degeneracy in ‘the West’.

    Protip: it won’t. Degeneracy + high IQ = more effective and deadly strains of the poz. Not cities on Mars and electric flying cars. (See Germany for proof.)

    ‘HBD’ is even more cringe than the African cope of ‘muh dick’. At least the Africans have the excuse of low IQ when acting irrationally stupid.

    • Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker
  15. @Felix Keverich

    They are also not very imaginative. A requirement for bioweapons is controllable (by the attacker) transmission, which makes the coronavirus a pretty bad candidate. It’s not exactly rocket science that an epidemic would reach the USA.

    How would they even test it? Infect someone in a hermetically isolated prison camp, and see how it develops? And whether he infects others? How did they know important qualities of the virus like the virulence or the contagiousness? It’s pretty much impossible to know without infecting large samples in even larger populations and then studying the results. And then they’d have to suppress it (or it only needs to be in a hermetically isolated population – way more hermetically isolated than North Korea, which sounds impossible).

    So the only explanation is that they unleashed a virus which they didn’t even know whether it’s even capable of doing anything.

    But it’s not relevant for my point, which was that Lot doesn’t actually believe in the Russian Konspiracy.

    • Replies: @utu
  16. @streetshitter

    Your identity is not exactly your personal choice to make. Look at the current COVID19 fiasco, many crazy folks in US want to “punish China”, I doubt they would want to ask their targets’ opinions of Identity Associations.

  17. @streetshitter

    Learn not to worry too much. 🙂 Like, before Putin becomes a problem, some virus might do you in. Sorry. 🙂

  18. @streetshitter

    Seriously, you got your mind fixated on a topic, and then you want to find a perfect solution to it. But the world always, always manages to surprise you. To seek perfection in a specific problem only because you have your mind set on it is futile.

  19. @streetshitter

    Go find the biggest, most expensive house in your city and ask the occupants to admit you into their midst, fagling. Then report back here with the results, or better yet GTFO cause your degree of retardation spoils the level of discourse here.

  20. @streetshitter

    if you know Hershey’s chocolate isn’t that great and there are better chocolates out there, how can you be a Hershey’s chocolate nationalist?

    My mom is not the most beautiful woman in the world, I guess not even for her age. She is probably not the smartest either. Perhaps not even the kindest in general (though there’s a catch here – she might be the kindest to me). Anyway, even if she weren’t very kind to me (sometimes she can be difficult), I’m still very much “my mom nationalist,” to use your expression. The same train of thought could be extended to my dad or my daughter etc.

    My ethnic group is just an extended family. It’s also not always clearly delineated, e.g. I love my wife even if she is not a blood relative, though in the age of divorce it might be somewhat more conditional than my love for my daughter or mom. Similarly, ethnic groups are not always clearly kinship groups. But besides the (far from completely fictional) kinship, there’s culture and language. So it’s good enough.

    • Agree: UK, Peter Frost
    • Replies: @iffen
    , @streetshitter
  21. Svevlad says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Well, it’s on the southern edge of Siberia before it turns into the weird cold dry steppe area, so I guess that makes it nicer than the more northerly Omsk. With some investment and some sort of resource rush, I guess it could easily reach 500k

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    , @Mr. XYZ
  22. Svevlad says:
    @streetshitter

    because things can be improved, no?

    I generally believe a lot of Serbs are a little less intelligent than I would like, but that doesn’t stop me from being a Serbian nationalist. A simple eugenics program can do wonders, even if the majority would oppose, because they don’t understand, or have emotional attachments to things. It’s generally why democracy isn’t good, people will never ever vote for their own improvement unless you play dirty tricks

  23. Ano4 says:

    Anatoly, greetings!

    Have you seen this?

    https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/01/31/logistical-and-technical-analysis-of-the-origins-of-the-wuhan-coronavirus-2019-ncov/

    Which brings me to:

    https://kornev.livejournal.com/559486.html

    If we link both, we get a type of situation of anthropogenic risk described by Nick Bostrom.

    Could you please weigh on this from futurology point of view?

    Many thanks in advance.

    M.

  24. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor

    So it’s good enough.

    Agree.

    Nationalism, like love, needs no explanation or justification–they are the explanation and justification.

  25. @reiner Tor

    Most Northern Europeans have very attenuated relationships and affinities for even their first cousins, let alone their “extended families” of tens of millions, usually demarcated by artificial political creations dating back a couple hundred years, if that.

    “Extended family” like it’s used here is just a return to a tribalism. To primitivism. Us vs them, my chimp group vs that other one in the trees next door.

    The HBD alt-right crowd is so proud of Western European achievement, but they unknowingly jettison most of that intellectual achievement. It’s like the Enlightenment never happened. Let’s return to some tribes running around in the Northern woods raiding the Roman Empire.

  26. songbird says:

    Boris Johnson is said to have 5 or 6 children, and he’s refused to say how many he’s had. And he is having one out of wedlock with his girlfriend.

    Is BoJo one of Anatoly’s fabled breeders? Does the future belong to cosmopolitan cretins like him?

  27. @streetshitter

    LOL,what a handle. So what do you become now that this emergency has put you into isolation and you can’t defecate in the street any more? Unless you’re in India and they haven’t yet started isolating people.

    About Lenin and what would have happened if he had stayed alive longer. A certain book states:

    Lenin was an adept of the highest degrees in Grand Orient Masonry. He knew the final secret as did Mazzini and Lemmi before him

    So if he hadn’t died he would have been running the global conspiracy for a while longer. Like this, the second in command took over, and apparently that wasn’t Stalin but Manuilsky. If you’re interested in this alternative interpretation of history, or maybe it’s the real one, you can look up the book from which I took that quote: SATAN, PRINCE OF THIS WORLD By William Guy Carr, R.D.

    Don’t ask me what I think; I’m not even 1st. level let alone 33rd degree.

    But when rival leaders of world powers meet they probably shake each other’s hand with that funny handshake and then get down to business. As do generals of warring sides after battles. What are the mounds of dead bodies to them as after all they’re members of the same exclusive club?

  28. To change the subject, since this is an open thread, I get the sense that even the cognitive elite (to use a term you guys like) of the HBD crowd, like AK, don’t drill down into their own theory and correlations. It’s more like this racial group smart, that racial group dumb, that other racial group kind of dumb but with smart subgroups. That’s it, that’s the extent of the red pill or whatever the you call it, I didn’t see the Matrix for 20 years.

    But drill down. Why do West Indians do a lot better than African Americans? Why do Bangladeshis in the UK, peasants taken from one of the least developed corners of Bangladesh (which is really saying something), descended from low caste Hindu converts, why do those Bangadeshis now slightly outperform the local whites at school? Why do Bangladeshis in NYC now make up 10% of the students in special highly-selective high schools like Stuyvesant, when those Bangladeshis are the children of uneducated immigrants from one of the poorest countries on earth?

    There are lots of examples like these. And they poke holes in the HBD “theory”

  29. songbird says:
    @streetshitter

    Was it the Enlightenment that changed Europe? Or was it the fact that Europe’s population had just about quadrupled from 1 AD to 1700 AD, with Northern Europe’s population at a minimum quintupling or likely increasing even more than that? That there were new crops like the potato, which had a lot more calories. That inventions like the cannon allowed castles to be broken down and so authority centralized on a national level?

    If you believe universality caused European progress, how do you explain Japan, or the fact that no African country has been able to adopt an idea that Europeans had three hundred years ago, and see similar progress? There’s about 54 countries in Africa. That’s a lot of laboratories for ideas.

    • Replies: @streetshitter
  30. LondonBob says:

    The spread to almost every country shows how contagious it is, but paradoxically it also indicates it is a lot less lethal than I first feared.

  31. neutral says:
    @streetshitter

    Let’s return to some tribes running around in the Northern woods raiding the Roman Empire.

    The Roman empire was a stagnant and savage entity, its demise was what started Western civilization, the Roman empire was an entirely different civilization.

  32. @Max Payne

    Completely agree. Outside of cancelling international flights, mandatory 14 day quarantine for those coming from abroad – and for those living with family members of people infected and promoting greater public hygiene….. there is NO justification whatsoever for any country to shutdown their economy like this. Criminal.

    I checked that in the previous 3 years in Italy there has been an increase in death rate by 0.25, which adds up to 15000 more deaths per year in 2019 compared to 2016- or about 60 extra per day. On the other hand the birth rate had decreased at a far higher amount. That suggests there should have been no excuse for a lack of medical staff, capacity and (to a lesser extent) equipment such as ventilators.
    Italian authorities should have minimum expected an extra 5000 deaths per annum based on trend-but prepared for 10000 worst-scenario anyway, and just as importantly, for the accompanying number of those needing long-term or intensive care. As it is, most of these people would probably have died now or a bit later anyway because of other far major, health problems. All this chaos with 40000 hospitalised is ridiculous

    It’s not even 6 degrees but 25 “degrees of separation” that connects me to anybody who has this thing. A total non-event except for international travel and mild changes to social interaction.

    • Replies: @neutral
  33. utu says:
    @reiner Tor

    “How would they even test it?” – I do not know but the research for the Gain of Function (GoA) in viruses is conducted and somehow the new functions are sought, predicted and tested. Pushing your argument to its limit would ‘prove’ that no new biological weapon are being created and we know it can’t be true that no new biological weapons are worked on.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  34. Liza says:
    @streetshitter

    Why do the Bangladeshis from the poor areas and West Indians do better? Because they have not experienced the “blessings” of a fully westernized way of life, with its endless brain- and body-destroying medicine and overall demented culture as long as white people have, for generations.

    Yes, they have had these things the past couple of generations – but we “superior” white people have had them for far, far longer. Thereby weakening us at a basic level.

    Don’t worry – your Bangladeshis are scrambling for all the goodies of our rotting civilization; they and the other third worlders just can’t get enough. And they will join us on the compost heap soon enough.

    “God is not a respecter of persons.” Yes, the opposite looks true at first glance. But be patient.

  35. @songbird

    Maybe it takes time for cultures to digest new ways of living and to catch up. Who knows, there could have been a Roman HBDer in 150 CE asking, “those Germanic tribes have had well over a century to catch up to our advanced Mediterranean civilization. And there are so many tribes up there, a lot of experiments running at the same time, why are they all turning out the same way?”

    • Replies: @songbird
  36. A123 says:

    #WhereIsJoe

    Now that Biden is the presumptive nominee, what is he doing with it?

    Lost is this crisis management is Joe Biden. He has all but disappeared.

    Biden’s disappearance has been noticed by Democrats, particularly Bernie supporters. Peter Daou, a longtime Hillary supporter, tweeted his frustration:

    People, I mean this sincerely: #whereisjoe?

    Trump is in front of the cameras every day, reassuring people, putting on the appearance of “leadership.”

    Where is #Biden? Why isn’t he dominating the airwaves???

    * * *

    And: Two new polls show Trump with majority approval on his handling of the #pandemic.

    If Dem leaders think this crisis will definitely damage him, they are greatly mistaken.

    If they cede the appearance of leadership to him, it’s a major problem.

    Is Quid Pro Joe infected with WUHAN-19? The fact that he cannot even make controlled, scripted appearances before compliment Fake Stream Media cameras is suspicious.

    Or, is he in bed with the Feinstein and the Clintons? After using insider information to ‘buy BigPharma’ he cannot afford to let a solution based on generic drugs become popular even though that would help U.S. Citizens.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/03/biden-has-all-but-disappeared-during-wuhan-coronavirus-crisis-as-whereisjoe-trends/

  37. songbird says:
    @streetshitter

    Japan did not require much time to catch up.

    I don’t think these historical analogies which go back 2000 years or more really make a great case. First off, you’ve got to ask, if the Romans were so great and the Germans so bad, why didn’t Rome conquer the Germans? There’s not a very good answer to that, and I don’t think one can’t blame the squeamishness of the Romans about killing either.

    In contrast, to Northern Europe about 2000 years, sub-Saharan Africa has a pretty large and growing population. It’s at about 1 billion now. Nigeria’s pop is about 200 million. More than double the pop of modern Germany. You’d think they would be racking up accomplishments now, but I don’t believe that they are.

    • Replies: @UK
  38. Before gunpowder there was actually not that much of a military advantage to higher levels of civilization. The Ancient Romans and the early Chinese dynasties had certain fairly minor technical advantages, like catapults/crossbows, but barbarian and highly civilized were both fighting hand-to-hand with iron weapons. In more “barbarian” societies like the German tribes, almost every adult male was a potential warrior, while with the much more civilized Romans and Chinese, the very large majority of the population was useless for fighting.

    As I’m sure Karlin would back up, the Greeks and Romans were vastly more advanced than the tribal populations living north of them, just like the Han Chinese were vastly more advanced than the tribal pastoralists living north of them. But that didn’t stop the northerners from regularly whooping the Romans and Chinese.

    It took many many centuries for the German tribes and then early states to get back to the same level of sophistication as the Roman empire at its height. If you were an alien looking at earth in the year 150 CE or 500 CE or 800 CE, you would not rate the Germanic descended peoples very highly at all. But look what happened since.

    Oh, as for the Japanese (and Koreans, and Taiwanese/Chinese), they were at a high level of cultural sophistication and state capacity before European contact. So perhaps it was a lot easier for them to quickly digest and put into practice what the West had to offer.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  39. UK says:
    @Felix Keverich

    These people are delusional psychopaths

    Ha

  40. @Lot

    i cant tell if you you are serious or just trolling.
    But with such a woke muuh Russia theory you might have a future career @ the DNC or cnn…

  41. neutral says:
    @Ms Karlin-Gerard

    On the other hand the birth rate had decreased at a far higher amount.

    It really is telling that the demographic collapse of number of births is never seen as an emergency, however the slight increase in older people dying means the economy must stop and martial law declared. If only they were as concerned about the end of Italians (as in there will be no future Italian people) as they are for older people dying a few years earlier.

  42. Nordic countries still at a mortality rate of about 0.4 to 0.9 (rough estimates, but in the ballpark). Any guesses why this might still be?

    • Replies: @AP
  43. Not Raul says:
    @Svevlad

    It’s a shame that Russia lost Akmolinsk.

  44. songbird says:
    @streetshitter

    Have you seen Aachen Cathedral? I think it looks pretty impressive. I don’t know if there is anything much older than that in Germany, but one can imagine that they recycled the stones from older buildings and that it did not wholly spring up from the mud.

    Trouble with comparing ancient Germany to Rome is that you are not doing any like a one to one comparison. Germany did not have the same population, or access to trade, or climate. It was full of old-growth oak trees. Where there are harsh winters, those things are like steel – pretty hard to cut down. Likely impossible with bronze.

    How does Germany compare when it had a similar population level? Well, it is obvious that there is some level of convergence. Where is the convergence in Africa? There are likely more black Africans than whites now. How is Africa positioned for trade? Well it is between the Americas and Asia, and right next to Europe – seems like a pretty good position. Fedex planes can touch right down, and there’s the internet.

    [MORE]

    Before gunpowder there was actually not that much of a military advantage to higher levels of civilization.

    I’m inclined to disagree. One example would be the Normans. Another would be Agincourt, where the English were heavily outnumbered but had the longbow.

    But that didn’t stop the northerners from regularly whooping the Romans and Chinese

    The barbarians north of China had a great deal of pasture, so they had an obvious advantage when it came to the number of horses they could support and the overall mobility of their settlements. Germany was in large part hardwood forest, so I don’t think it had the same advantages. Maybe, Rome was already too big to manage internally? Or maybe forest is a detriment to an invading army?

  45. AP says:
    @Swedish Family

    Far healthier population (less obese, more active even in older ages)?

    • Replies: @Swedish Family
  46. iffen says:
    @streetshitter

    A better question is why are they not able to flourish in their home countries? What is it about their countries that stifles their abilities? What is it about Western Europe and the West that allows individuals to flourish?

    • Replies: @streetshitter
  47. songbird says:
    @UK

    Link doesn’t seem to work for me, but I imagined two funny African scenes I had seen clips of. The space program which is a man rolling down hill in a trash barrel, and a clip from some Nigerian action movie, which I cannot describe.

  48. @iffen

    Give it some time. China in 1985 was still dirt poor, so I suppose someone could have asked then why couldn’t they build a successful flourishing society? They did, now that we look back from 2020. The largest manufacturing power on earth, 2nd largest economy at current exchange rates and largest economy with PPP adjustment. India in 2020 is a lot better off than India in 2000. Same with Bangladesh actually, which is not nearly the basket case that it was even 20 years ago.

    It took the Northern Europeans a thousand years from first contact with the Roman Empire to catch up in any meaningful way. It took the Japanese centuries to assimilate the advanced aspects of Chinese culture. Yet we don’t think that the Northern Europeans of 150 CE were genetically unintelligent compared to the Mediterraneans, or the Japanese of 400 CE were genetically unintelligent compared to the Chinese.

    Who knows, maybe in the year 3000 it will be the Africans who wonder what ever happened to European civilization. Sound ridiculous? Same as those barbaric tribes running around in the forests up north taking over the world would have sounded to the Greeks and Romans.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @AaronB
  49. And like I said earlier, there are reasons to doubt the HBD point of view from just a logical perspective. Forget about history.

    If South Asians are unintelligent except for Brahmin castes (the standard HBD line), why are Bangladeshis drawn almost entirely from the peasant class outperforming British whites in UK schools? Why are they 10% of the student body in the most selective high schools in NYC, while making up less than 1% of the city population and being drawn from almost uniformly uneducated people in one of the poorest countries in the world?

    What about West Indian (Caribbean English-speaking) blacks, drawn from the same slave trade as African Americans? Why do they do very noticeably better in the USA than African Americans academically and in terms of income? Why do their IQ test results in the UK come out better than the averages in some Eastern European countries?

    Or for that matter, what about Germans in Germany and their current morbidly obese, opioid addicted cousins in declining regions of the USA? Why so successful in Germany and now much less so in large sections of the USA?

    • Agree: utu
  50. iffen says:
    @streetshitter

    asked then why couldn’t they build a successful flourishing society?

    Why do Chinese, Bangladeshis, Indians, Ghanaians, etc. come here to flourish? Why don’t they just do it there?

    Yet we don’t think that the Northern Europeans of 150 CE were genetically unintelligent compared to the Mediterraneans

    Not so sure about that. Those ancient Greeks were pretty smart.

  51. @neutral

    I doubt the Powers that Be really care about old people dying.

    As far as I can tell, the conspiracy theory that Corona-chan is man-made is real. This is why they’re scared shitless and pushing for such drastic measures: they’re facing a new, artificial variety of common cold that might turn deadly.

    Maybe it turns into another nothingburger, but the whole situation is unprecedented and absolutely unpredictable.

  52. @AP

    Far healthier population (less obese, more active even in older ages)?

    I certainly hope so. We do smoke far less than Mediterraneans, which might help, and visitors (even from Belarus) always tell me how fresh our air is, so that might also play into it. Reasons for optimism, anyway!

  53. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Svevlad

    What about one million people or 1.5 million people or two million people?

    • Replies: @Svevlad
  54. Svevlad says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Potentially – but with a much much higher Russian population. Remember when Anatoly said that the Siberian cities are too large compared to the total population? Something like that.

    Anyway, pulling a northern river reversal might do the job of making all of central asia fertile and nice for Russian settlement

  55. SIMP simp says:
    @songbird

    Madagascar was already populated with hunter=gatherers when the austronesians arrived.

    • Replies: @songbird
  56. @Anatoly Karlin

    The same exact argument can be made for subsaharan africa (and mesoamerica) being difficult. In fact that was a central argument in the book guns, germs and steel by Jared Diamond.

    Also all those cool Stone Age cave paintings and artifacts in Europe’s deep past were made by population groups which left effectively no descendants. They were killed off by later waves of invaders.

    And lastly there was quite a bit of settled urban life in parts of Northern Europe under the auspices of the the Romans, followed by an absolutely enormous regression once the Germanic tribes took over. You can just imagine the Romans whining about the natives taking over just like the British and French did when they were kicked out from their colonies.

    • Replies: @songbird
  57. songbird says:
    @SIMP simp

    It could be so. There’s that theory that the Americas were populated by psuedo-Andamanese, before the Indians came over, and if that’s right than the sea gap from Madagascar to mainland Africa wouldn’t be that remarkable.

    I’m not convinced though because the megafauna died off about when the Austronesians arrived, and not much earlier. Could be possible though, if the first settlers had a very primitive toolkit.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  58. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Anatoly, I hate to be a nuisance, but can you please respond to my alternate history questions in posts #3 and #5 in this thread? Thank you.

  59. Jatt Arya says:
    @songbird

    Fkn nigger loving simp go suck mohammad’s cock.

    • Replies: @songbird
  60. songbird says:
    @Jatt Arya

    You don’t like me calling Amerinds “Indians?” I don’t get it. Do Indian (dot) nationalists even use the word “Indian?”

    I thought that was a word that your former overlords used to flag down a Brahmin to use his rickshaw, or get their nightsoil collected, or to find a Muslim overseer to supervise a party of Sikhs to lift the tea crates aboard ship.

    It is good that you are owning the word though.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  61. @Mr. XYZ

    Not going to spend much time discussing this, since there’s rather important world events going on right now that I’d rather write about.

    But OK, will jot down some brief thoughts.

    ***

    In the event that there would have been no Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in 1917, do you expect Akmola/Tsalinograd/Astana/Nur-Sultan to have remained a mid-sized provincial relative backwater up to the present-day–with its population never even actually reaching 500,000 people?

    I agree, that’s probably true. Would probably just be a series of Orenburgs, though much nicer ones if sovok removed (~Bismarck? ~Calgary?).

    Incidentally, Orenburg was originally the capital of the Kyrgyz ASSR from 1920. It was a happy and unexpected stroke of fortune that it was shoved back into the RSFSR in 1925.

    How do you think the Soviet Union would have developed had Lenin lived longer and thus been able to publish his Last Testament…

    Don’t know enough about political details of that period to give a good answer to this. There’s a great deal of debate even amongst professional historians on this issue.

  62. @utu

    Biological weapons development was halted in the USA when it turned out that no one was willing to defend it, neither soldiers nor civilians.

    The biological agents suitable to be a weapon don’t really need enhancement of function: they can readily make you sick (in the case of anthrax dead) as they are, so no problem. The issue is how to deliver them to their destination.

    • Replies: @utu
  63. Pericles says:
    @streetshitter

    Most Northern Europeans have very attenuated relationships and affinities for even their first cousins, let alone their “extended families” of tens of millions, usually demarcated by artificial political creations dating back a couple hundred years, if that.

    It is a weakness, but obviously one that has to be rectified as the more tightly knit ethnic groups feast on what we made. The europeans just have to take it to heart not to be chumps and look our for their own interests. Or, if you will, it’s not healthy to be the only color-blind in the group.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  64. songbird says:
    @Streetshitter

    The idea that the people who build Stonehenge left no descendants is a mathematical fallacy. Actually, they probably left hundreds of million of descendants, perhaps even more than a billion.

    There was a lot of genetic turnover – but that is saying something different.

    BTW, your comparison of a Roman outpost in Northern Europe enmeshed in the economic network of the Roman Empire at its peak, to the same place not enmeshed in this network, doesn’t make any sense.

  65. @songbird

    I wasn’t talking about Stonehenge, I was talking about that cave paintings and 25,000 year old artifacts Karlin was referring to in the old blog post he used as a response to me. The people who made those left no modern descendants according to recent genetic analysis.

    Most of the economy was local in Roman times. There was a lot more long distance trade than before or after, but it wasn’t like now where almost every physical thing we buy is made overseas. Fact remains that there were relatively dense agricultural settlements in England, central and even northern France, and there were sizable cities as well. Not on the scale of Rome or Alexandria, but like freaking Shibuya Tokyo compared to what replaced them for the next 400 years or so. Those Germanic tribesmen weren’t quick studies, that’s for sure.

    Nothing I’m saying is at all controversial by the way. But it’s like pulling teeth here. Northern Europeans were not only primitive compared to their Med neighbors, they took centuries to pick up even a smattering of literate urban society. I don’t think they were dumb. After all, their descendants accomplished a tremendous amount. But that’s my point. You can’t take the state of progress of a particular group at a particular time and say, “see, they’re obviously stupid”. Because you have examples in history of groups that remained primitive for a long time, then later doing exceptionally well.

    Same would apply to the Japanese by the way. They took quite a while to civilize, even after contacts with imperial China began, and even though Japan is excellent land for farming.

    • Replies: @songbird
  66. @songbird

    I wasn’t talking about Stonehenge, I was talking about that cave paintings and 25,000 year old artifacts Karlin was referring to in the old blog post he used as a response to me. The people who made those left no modern descendants according to recent genetic analysis.

    Most of the economy was local in Roman times. There was a lot more long distance trade than before or after, but it wasn’t like now where almost every physical thing we buy is made overseas. Fact remains that there were relatively dense agricultural settlements in England, central and even northern France, and there were sizable cities as well. Not on the scale of Rome or Alexandria, but like freaking Shibuya Tokyo compared to what replaced them for the next 400 years or so. Those Germanic tribesmen weren’t quick studies, that’s for sure.

    Nothing I’m saying is at all controversial by the way. But it’s like pulling teeth here. Northern Europeans were not only primitive compared to their Med neighbors, they took centuries to pick up even a smattering of literate urban society. I don’t think they were dumb. After all, their descendants accomplished a tremendous amount. But that’s my point. You can’t take the state of progress of a particular group at a particular time and say, “see, they’re obviously stupid”. Because you have examples in history of groups that remained primitive for a long time, then later doing exceptionally well.

    Same would apply to the Japanese by the way. They took quite a while to civilize, even after contacts with imperial China began, even though Japan is excellent land for farming.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  67. AaronB says:
    @streetshitter

    You are completely incorrect.

    HBD says that all races have a fixed and immutable capability and personalize profile.

    That’s the science of genetics.

    Races have “essences” and do not change.

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
  68. Let’s talk about something of utmost importance:

    Like this 330+ image base of our sexy, virusy, waifu Corona-chan:

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1OiU7yca598fVBivVD0FosiaJrHQzuF4r

    No, it is not mine.

    I love you Corona-chan!

  69. songbird says:
    @Streetshitter

    Lascaux Cave would be a similar case to Stonehenge. The genetic superstructure of the population changed dramatically. By way of slang, you can think of them as being killed off, but that doesn’t imply that they don’t have a lot of descendants living today.

    We’re talking about 20,000 years ago. That means a small number of survivors will have a large number of descendants. They didn’t need to be living near Lascaux, or even in France, at the time they mixed – they may have been a thousand miles away from it, and still been the descendants of those people. Over a thousand years, matings with neighbors over short distances add up, and if they had any elite, elite typically mate over longer distances.

    But I take it you’re more concerned with genetic continuity, i.e. that they were not the same people as modern French. That much is true. My objection is more grammatical. You could also say that there is nobody more closely related to them than modern Europeans.

    [MORE]

    Those Germanic tribesmen weren’t quick studies, that’s for sure.

    The incentive structure of Roman society changed, whether one was a Roman or a German, so it is difficult to make a comparison on the basis that Germans were not able to keep up Roman civilization, since the Romans were not able to do this either.

    My opinion differs from you in that I think it is at least possible that the ancient Germans were not as genetically intelligent as Romans. Far from certain, but at least possible. This is a question that it might be possible to determine in the future by using ancient DNA.

    But I don’t understand what point you are trying to make in today’s context. If you are saying that other groups can become smarter over hundreds of years, by selective breeding (eugenics), then this is true. If you are arguing for the blank slate, then this is falsifiable, based on third generation immigrant groups in Western Europe, or twin adoption studies. In any case, if you are arguing for the continuance of open borders, then this can be answered with a pretty simple question: is it desirable for Europeans to have open borders? No, it is clearly not desirable, at least to Europeans.

  70. EldnahYm says:
    @streetshitter

    You should at least provide some data backing up your claim that UK Bangladeshis do better than the natives.

    Your arguments can easily be explained by immigrant sub-groups being unrepresentative of national averages. None of your points contradict so-called HBD.

    It turns out that IQ tests, measurements of cranial capacity, and modern civilizational achievement correlate. We are supposed to believe this is all false because some members of a low performing group do well on these measures. That is illogical.

    • Replies: @streetshitter
  71. EldnahYm says:
    @Streetshitter

    Your reasoning is backwards. You assume Roman civilization was highly successful, therefore any groups who failed to emulate it were failures. It’s closer to the other way around. Roman cities were highly unstable, mass disease outbreaks required the cities being re-populated from the countryside, and the Romans failed to gain a demographic foothold in any parts of northern Europe. In places like Scandinavia, Finland, or the Baltic, it is literally the case that the Roman cultural package would not work.

    It’s no mystery why lightly populated northern Europe did not emulate them. The mystery would be why northern Europeans ever did anything at all, since their land and climate was worse for farming and their populations smaller. Unless you believe northern Europeans were smart, or had some other biological advantage, then there is no mystery.

    Some Germanics adopted rune systems fairly quickly after contact with Meds. Why didn’t they adopt literate civilization? Probably because they had no need for it. If you look at the earliest written records in Mediterranean Europe, they are basically large bureaucratic record keeping. They’re not a collection of myths, philosophical speculations, or collections of mathematical knowledge. What need did sparsely populated northern Europe have of mass inventories? They had none.

    The whole premise of your argument is that in classical times all of Europe wanted to adopt Roman ways. You provide zero evidence for this. If I wanted to provide evidence for a similar dynamic today, I could cite numerous examples of global development institutions or mass trade which is based around homogenous institutions like corporations, factories, etc. I could even find statements made by members of government saying they want to develop their economy. But what evidence is there that this was the case in Europe of classical times?

    It also must be emphasized that in ancient times, agriculture was a far larger share of the economy than today. Agricultural development is also relatively slow. Crops that do well in Mediterranean Europe cannot simply be transferred to northern Europe. It takes time to adapt them to local conditions, or to apply similar techniques to local crops. It was not so simple to just adopt the cultural package of a group from a different environment.

    Japan is excellent land for farming relative to where? The Arctic? Japan is a mountainous country with limited soil fertility.

    All of these historical speculations are also ignoring the fact that we have methods of evaluating the intelligence of modern people.

    • Replies: @streetshitter
  72. @EldnahYm

    Here is a link that came up from a quick google search:

    https://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/think-leicester/education/2016/against-the-odds-ethnic-minority-students-are-excelling-at-school

    Bangladeshi students in the UK outperform white students.

    I specifically mentioned Bangladeshis and not Indians in my posts above because if anyone is familiar with Bangladeshi immigrants in the the USA and UK, they would know that those immigrants are overwelmingly uneducated and from poor peasant stock. The ones in the UK are also mostly from a backward (even by Bangladeshi standards!) part of the country called Sylhet. My point in saying so is not to put them down, but to point out that even dirt-poor peasant-descended people from just about the most backward part of South Asia do pretty well compared to Anglo-Saxon whites in UK schools.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  73. @EldnahYm

    Your post seems to be a long way of saying that the primitive lifestyles found in Northern Europe were preferable to the more culturally advanced Roman Empire. Maybe! Rousseau was saying the same thing about Native Americans vs W Europeans in the 18th Century. That’s where the term noble savage comes from. So you can just as easily apply that term to the Northern European tribespeople in the early centuries CE – noble savages. And you know Rousseau definitely meant it in a good way.

    More generally, I’m not talking about why people in 2nd Century CE Denmark didn’t grow olive trees like in Greece. I’m talking about civilized parts of the Roman Empire like England and Gaul falling to the Germanic invaders, and the level of civilization there collapsing for centuries to a level akin to prehistory. There is a lot of literature about this, including a few new well-received academic books, the shortest and best being The Fall of Rome by Bryan Ward-Perkins.

    Separately, Japan is mountainous that’s true, but it has an excellent climate and a very lush landscape. The population density has been high there from even prehistoric, pre-agricultural times. So Japanese people’s slow uptake of Chinese civilization can’t be because the land was bad. That was my point.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  74. EldnahYm says:
    @streetshitter

    Most Northern Europeans have very attenuated relationships and affinities for even their first cousins, let alone their “extended families” of tens of millions, usually demarcated by artificial political creations dating back a couple hundred years, if that.

    “Extended family” like it’s used here is just a return to a tribalism. To primitivism. Us vs them, my chimp group vs that other one in the trees next door.

    The HBD alt-right crowd is so proud of Western European achievement, but they unknowingly jettison most of that intellectual achievement. It’s like the Enlightenment never happened. Let’s return to some tribes running around in the Northern woods raiding the Roman Empire.

    The Enlightenment was at least partially about questioning received wisdom using reason. Many of the ideas of the Enlightenment are themselves worthy of questioning and criticism. One criticism of Western societies is that they have become dogmatically attached to Enlightenment ideas like liberty, progress, toleration, fraternity when the utility of these ideas have declined and also to the point where we can no longer see the inherent contradictions in them.

    I am skeptical of the idea that tribalism is something moderns has moved beyond. The existence of ethnic voting blocs for example calls the idea into question. A larger point is that even when particular forms of identity are weakened, other types of identities replace them. You downgrade tribal identity, you get more religious identity, or if you downgrade religious identity, you get national identity etc. Humans are group identifying.

    My stance is that biological identity is more robust than other forms, so at the very least it has to be integrated into other systems. People are biologically inclined to favor their own children over random strangers.

  75. @anonymous coward

    Clearly the white IQ advantage did nothing to help in South Africa.

    Ultimately, though, our issue comes from individualism. South Africa abandoned the Rhodesian whites, thinking that it would be spared. Europeans abandoned the South African whites, thinking they would be spared. A little balls, or “chutzpah”, goes a long way, and for some reason the vast majority of whites are both individualistic and cowardly.

    We have always been the most individualistic race but I think it has become a severe obstacle as now we worship it.

    Regardless, until we regain the nuclear family unit and find God again, things will continue to go badly for us.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  76. EldnahYm says:
    @streetshitter

    Your post seems to be a long way of saying that the primitive lifestyles found in Northern Europe were preferable to the more culturally advanced Roman Empire. Maybe! Rousseau was saying the same thing about Native Americans vs W Europeans in the 18th Century. That’s where the term noble savage comes from. So you can just as easily apply that term to the Northern European tribespeople in the early centuries CE – noble savages. And you know Rousseau definitely meant it in a good way.

    More generally, I’m not talking about why people in 2nd Century CE Denmark didn’t grow olive trees like in Greece. I’m talking about civilized parts of the Roman Empire like England and Gaul falling to the Germanic invaders, and the level of civilization there collapsing for centuries to a level akin to prehistory. There is a lot of literature about this, including a few new well-received academic books, the shortest and best being The Fall of Rome by Bryan Ward-Perkins.

    My argument is that the Roman lifestyle in northern Europe was not particularly stable to begin with, and that civilized Rome itself frequently had population collapses.

    The Amerindian example is interesting, but different from northern Europe in classical times. For most of northern Europe, the Romans had only a light demographic impact. In the case of the Amerindians, they were replaced by Europeans. This is an important difference.

    • Replies: @Streetshitter
  77. EldnahYm says:
    @streetshitter

    I specifically mentioned Bangladeshis and not Indians in my posts above because if anyone is familiar with Bangladeshi immigrants in the the USA and UK, they would know that those immigrants are overwelmingly uneducated and from poor peasant stock. The ones in the UK are also mostly from a backward (even by Bangladeshi standards!) part of the country called Sylhet. My point in saying so is not to put them down, but to point out that even dirt-poor peasant-descended people from just about the most backward part of South Asia do pretty well compared to Anglo-Saxon whites in UK schools.

    You mean a small portion of people descended from “-poor peasant-descended people from just about the most backward part of South Asia do pretty well compared to Anglo-Saxon whites in UK schools.”

    Is anyone who claims to agree with “HBD” theories actually arguing that there are zero people in the world who are poor but also intelligent and hard working?

    In case it does need to be said, cognitive abilities as defined by IQ tests are clearly not the only factor impacting economic development.

    • Replies: @Streetshitter
  78. @streetshitter

    There are two sides to this coin, as iffen points out.

    1. It’s clear that given the right circumstances, some people display intelligence that might have been hidden in other situations. For instance, in poverty stricken Bangladesh, even a peasant displays intelligence while bartering for food, keeping enough money for food, keeping his family afloat, navigating the crowded cities, etc. All these things in extremely crowded and poor environments are for basic survival in Bangladesh, do require intelligence. Thus the Indians can outwork even the Jews in the diamond trade.

    South Asians (Pakistan might be different) aren’t dumb. But in the home country environment their smarts go to other endeavors.

    2. On the other hand, the question is, why do they need to come to the West to flourish? If Bengalis were so smart, should they not be able to create their own liveable societies? Just like there are no African teams competing in FIFA, but Team France is full of African players. Obviously they’re missing some mental component that we have. Basically: they can do well when dropped into clean, orderly, and spacious societies. But they can’t create them.

    I suspect that Western Euro whites have an odd combination of traits, plus over a millenia of Christianity as a civilizing component, plus relatively mild climates allow for more leisure. Basically, enjoy the good times with us while you can, because as we disappear so will the wealthy, clean, historically easy times we live in. Whites have a great mind for planning and executing, I find. Other races lack this (from my personal experience).

    People also seem to confuse “good HBD traits” with “good morality”. I mean no harm by saying X group is smarter than Y group. Intelligence, wealth, prosperity, etc. are not indicators of good morality, connection with the divine, or life satisfaction. The dumbest African still has the potential to go to Heaven. BUT we should be separate from one another. And recognize that, despite their intelligence, mass immigration of Bangladeshis into the UK or New York will just create another state, identical to Bangladesh, over time.

    • Replies: @Streetshitter
  79. @streetshitter

    The whites dying from White Death are disproportionately Irish and Scots Irish.

  80. @EldnahYm

    The Roman Empire had a reasonably stable and in fact steadily growing population until Antonine plague, from which it was recovering until plunged into decades of civil war in the 3rd C. Rome like all pre-industrial cities had a high mortality rate, but Rome the city was a very small portion of the empire’s population.

    Roman Britain and even more so Gaul (France) were doing fine, stable or growing in population. There wasn’t anything unstable about them before the Germanic invasions. Gaul was in fact one of the wealthier and more prosperous parts of the Western Empire.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  81. @EldnahYm

    The UK education link I posted for you showed total results. Not outliers. British Bangladeshi students do better then white British students overall. And you can’t ascribe this to smart high caste Hindus or something. Bangladeshis are overwhelmingly Muslim, and the Bangladeshi immigrants into the UK are overwhelmingly from poor rural peasant stock.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @EldnahYm
  82. @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    Give it some time. India is poor now but that doesn’t mean it always will be. China was dirt poor 35 years ago, now it’s on the way to being a developed country, and is already arguably the largest economy in the world. S Korea was on par with African countries in 1960. Now it’s a technological powerhouse and a fully developed country. Just check their Covid-19 response compared to Europe or America.

    But what would someone like you have said in 1960? “Why can’t those East Asians develop? Most of them are dirt poor and even the best of them, the Japanese, are poorer than Portugal or Brazil.” From the vantage point of 2020, you see the problem with that argument. India’s economy is now about 4 times larger than it was in 2000 (I’m just spitballing based on their GDP growth-rate). Same with Bangladesh actually. The world in 2020 is not necessarily the same as the world will be in 2050 or 2100.

  83. songbird says:
    @Streetshitter

    What’s your ultimate point? Are you saying that British people should welcome Sadiq Khan giving his invitation to Indians to invade Britain, or Ash Sakir giving a “We’re winning, lads!” to her co-ethnics?

    • Replies: @Streetshitter
  84. @songbird

    My original point near the start of this thread was that HBD seemed to me like a remarkably poorly thought out “theory”, given what I’ve read about it from Karlin, and I listed some problems if you drill down a bit beyond what seems like the sum total of theory: “this racial group smart, that racial group stupid, that other racial group mostly stupid but with smart subgroups”

    And after that, you’re like “so you want us to live under the caliphate then???”

    One of the people here is from Canada I think. I recently went to Toronto. You a guys are too pessimistic! Toronto is chock full of the kind of immigrants you love to hate, but it’s clean, orderly, wealthy, low-crime, and without any significant anti-immigrant or anti-minority sentiment. “Oh no, we will lose our ancestral homeland of Ohio, and turn into the hell-forsaken Ontario!” You should be so lucky lol.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @EldnahYm
  85. songbird says:
    @Streetshitter

    I’ve never been to Toronto, but I have seen their rather curious tourist commercials. I’ll paraphrase a bit here: “Come to Toronto, and enjoy the diversity!” No, thanks! Sounds like my local metro area, actually every city in the US and now every city in Western Europe.

    BTW, I am rooting for the subcontinent. I think the odds are against you, if you are aiming for NE Asian level of wealth and development, but I think Turkish levels might be on the table.

    Obviously, you’re not able to evaluate the costs of diversity because it is all gain to you. You wouldn’t welcome it, if it meant a billion Bantus moving to the subcontinent (hell you’d still be the majority – you should welcome it, for the sake of diversity!). But you think that is impossible, that the subcontinent is hermetically-sealed off to Africa on the basis of its low standard of living and super-high density population.

  86. Jatt Arya says:
    @songbird

    Brahmins drive rickshaws & collect nightsoil? Sikhs work under muslims??

    You’ve gone insane, I was responding to streetshitter though..

    You seem like you’re not this ‘loquacious’ face-face||

  87. Jatt Arya says:
    @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    No, you haven’t always been the most individualistic, christcuck||

    https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/where-do-clans-come-from/

    Among the anthropologically defined 356 contemporary societies of Euro-Asia and Africa, there is a large and significant negative correlation between the spread of Christianity (for at least 500 years) and the absence of clans and lineages; the level of commercialization, class stratification, and state formation are insignificantly correlated (Andrey V. Korotayev, 2003).”

    https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/whatever-happened-to-european-tribes/

    The church also curtailed parents’ abilities to retain kinship ties through arranged marriages by prohibiting unions in which the bride didn’t explicitly agree to the union.

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/147470491501300114

    Feminism & Individualism are the core SOCIAL values of the christcuckery you imbibe & believe will save the Anglo mutt race||

  88. Jatt Arya says:
    @songbird

    No, the per capita income in PPP is 10k now.

    The pop density per km2 of arable land is comparable to Central & S Europe.

    We’re hoping our innate level of racism and caste violence ie a weak state with strong(er) kinship groups saves us||

    • Replies: @songbird
  89. @songbird

    Thanks for the courtesy. I’m only half Indian by the way (which is probably worse here), and grew up in the USA and consider myself American. I have mostly just an academic interest in the subcontinent, although I certainly wish it well, and have relatives there.

    I actually agree that Japan-level development is not on the table for India any time soon, and that something like Turkish levels would still be an enormous improvement and a realistic medium-term target. My reasons are obviously not HBD related though.

    If you are America based, check out Toronto sometime. It’s really not that bad, the main strike against it is that it’s a bit boring for a big city, although less than before. Very functional, more so than any American city I can think of. I live in NYC and like it here (except for this very moment lol), although I certainly acknowledge that it’s not perfect. It’s not remotely as bad as people here probably think it is.

  90. @songbird

    You’re right about one thing though. Back in say 1985 or 1990, NYC and LA were genuinely unique in how international and multicultural they were. But now, it’s actually Tokyo or Seoul that are unique, in the sense that every large metro in North America and now Europe is quite diverse.

    You see that as a bad thing and I don’t. I have family connections to Japan and am very familiar with it, and somewhat with East Asia in general (although I’m not any part NE Asian). I like both NE Asia and the West. I do think with Japan leading the way (as it has in Asia since about 1860), NE Asia is in a period of heavy demographic decline, that is not just impacting headline GDP growth, but culture in all kinds of deep ways. It makes a big difference if everyone is old or if everyone is young.

    • Replies: @songbird
  91. dux.ie says:

    “Would you believe you come along … Hands… washing hands.. Reaching out … Don’t touch me .. Won’t touch you … Sweet Corona …”

  92. songbird says:
    @Jatt Arya

    I put a lot of faith in Indian racism on a local level, but it seems to have a deficiency on the level of international politics. Modi has been cucking somewhat, though perhaps not so much as others.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  93. songbird says:
    @Streetshitter

    I’d say Japanese culture is much healthier than current Western culture. There is more of an obvious bifurcation between men and women, and beauty and femininity and even masculinity seem to be things that are still idealized.

    They have a pretty big advantage over the West in that it is still easy for them to create cultural product. With ease, they can attempt to create stories that inspire their own people. In Hollywood, it is all about what different ethnic groups you can get to buy something, and what special interest groups to brownnose. It is very difficult, to even be allowed to create art. To tell a story where you are not worried about what the hero looks like, what his friend looks like, and what the villain looks like. To tell a story that needs to succeed with your own people to be a success, and not the global market, which has fairly non-discriminating tastes and practically does away with failure.

    There’s really no use to having lots of young people around if they are not your own. Or maximizing GDP, if it means erasing your culture and people. I don’t see some obvious African import, pregnant and pushing a double stroller, in a small village in the middle of Appalachia, and say to myself, “Gee, look how much healthier my country is compared to Japan!”

    I have faith that Japan will do just fine, if they manage to keep their borders closed. It makes sense that a culture needs a period of re-adjustment to effectively deal with the challenges of modern society.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  94. Jatt Arya says:
    @songbird

    Yup.

    Hindus are cucks,

    https://www.patreon.com/posts/purpose-of-dasam-23957882

    They’ve lost most of their ancient commentaries in Muslim library burnings.
    Because they place intellectuals above Warriors their universalist we are all one turns from being a mission to wage war to being cucks.

    Sad, but Khalsa is there||

    • Agree: songbird
  95. Even the Faeroe Islands and Andorra have caught the coronavirus flu, with just over 100 cases each and populations of about 50,000 and 70,000 respectively. Even Malaysia has 1,300 cases by now. While India with a population of 1.339 billion has only 429 cases, even less than tiny Singapore. Now why would you trust anything you get from an Indian: data, facts, whatever?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

  96. melanf says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes

    in the continuation https://www.unz.com/akarlin/antifa-pedophile-locked-up-in-russia/

    According to an investigation by the ultra-opposition Medusa, these “antifa” (who are sent to prison) trafficked drugs (to Finance the revolution). At the same time, in order to strengthen the revolutionary consciousness (and conceal the fact of drug trafficking), these antifa carried out a double murder (getting rid of unnecessary witnesses)

    https://meduza.io/feature/2020/02/21/poshli-chetvero-v-les-a-vyshli-tolko-dvoe

  97. AP says:
    @songbird

    I’ve never been to Toronto, but I have seen their rather curious tourist commercials. I’ll paraphrase a bit here: “Come to Toronto, and enjoy the diversity!” No, thanks! Sounds like my local metro area, actually every city in the US and now every city in Western Europe.

    It’s actually nice from a tourist’s standpoint (from a native one – a different story). Great Italian, Portuguese, Indian, Chinese food, sushi, and the place manages to be safe and very clean. It’s diversity minus America’s and Western Europe’s lower class diversity (there are pockets of such but they don’t dominate – Toronto is not Paris or London). Of course, it used to be British, so the place was utterly lost to the natives.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
    , @songbird
    , @Mr. Hack
  98. Jatt Arya says:
    @AP

    No, there are a ring of 80% white neighborhoods on the SW coast of the lake and they’ve remained around that % for 20+ years now.
    Some Italians & Slavs moved in but nobody really minds.
    Missisauga, Oakville, Etobicoke etc.

    Tourists end up Downtown or Scarborough the latter which is 10% white.
    Expansion into the hinterlands + sub replacement white fertility = whites are low as a percentage but concentrated largely where they’ve always been, by the lake||

    Shootings have gone up since they stopped “carding” (stop and frisk) but from what I know yuppies now consider that ‘cool’.
    The stats on it were essentially that in majority non white neighborhoods whites were stopped in line with their pop but in the downtown/white areas, non white men were harassed out.
    Don’t really know or care if this wave of gang violence is cyclical, up 400% since 1998 but nobody cares.

    Western cities are only places for cucks to live. No open spaces, places to shoot guns, thin women who love guns, people to legally shoot with said guns, etc.

    We must keep dreaming & working||

    Also, thoughts?

  99. songbird says:
    @AP

    Honestly, I don’t really understand a culinary argument for diversity, especially one for diversity-themed tourism. I can probably eat at at least 30 different ethnic-themed restaurants within a 5-mile-radius without even traveling into the city. And most of them have no appeal to me, whatsoever. Guess I am not really a gourmet. I’d rather live in my father’s time, when pizza or pasta seemed like something exotic.

    Not sure how good I am at reading Canadian tea leaves, but it seems to me that they are caught in a political bear trap. Once you start a selectively-based immigration system, which dramatically increases diversity, you create a virtue-signaling spiral, where it will drop to the lowest common denominator – Somalis, Haitians, and Nigerians, etc.

    I don’t know if you have heard about that plan to increase Canada’s population to 100 million. In the longterm, I think it is impossible to maintain a selectively-based immigration system, unless it is under authoritarianism, like Singapore.

    • Replies: @AP
  100. @AaronB

    That is completely incorrect. No one is claiming genetics do not change over time. That would be retarded. How would you even account for their being different races? They are constantly changing. It just does not change within a span of lifetime but only over generations.

    There can be eugenic trends and dysgenic trends.

    I think the point of HBD is that Liberia is not going to become Wakanda tomorrow, or in our lifetimes. Anything can happen in 3,000 years.

  101. Shit, these are always the hardest countries to infect in Plague Inc, well done.

  102. AP says:
    @songbird

    Honestly, I don’t really understand a culinary argument for diversity, especially one for diversity-themed tourism. I can probably eat at at least 30 different ethnic-themed restaurants within a 5-mile-radius without even traveling into the city.

    I can’t eat Indian food because I can’t tolerate spices, but I appreciate good sushi, Italian food, Portuguese food. It isn’t the same, Toronto has very good examples. There are also people – it is interesting to come across genuine Italians, Russians, Ukrainians, Chinese, etc.

    However, an ethnically uniform place is also interesting; there are some great sleepy British towns in Ontario that haven’t been “spoiled” like Toronto has been. It is similar as in diverse Montreal vs. the real Quebec. OTOH Vancouver is not really diverse as Toronto is – it is just a rich Chinese city with a few rich white people, and a white junkie underclass.

  103. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    I have fond memories of Toronto. As a kid I would often visit this city where I had relatives, including a Ukrainian uncle and his English wife. Borsch and verenyki or Fish and chips? The Ukrainian influence at that time was considerable, Ukrainian being the 5th largest ethnicity within Canada. Italians numbered slightly more, and you could always find good Italian restaurants. The big fancy Ukrainian restaurant was named “Caravan” and has long since closed. I have fond memories of my uncle’s backyard that included several large mature black cherry trees. His large home was filled with bushels of ripe sweet black cherries at harvest time – great varenyki. I haven’t been back in years, I’m sure its changed tremendously.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  104. melanf says:

    In English about the imprisoned antifa activists, whose trial caused such a storm of indignation against the “bloody regime”. The story told by one of the participants of this organization who fled to Ukraine from the Russian police. Нe describes how he participated in the murder of witnesses who knew about the drug trade that the anarchists were engaged in in order to Finance the revolutionary struggle

    https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/03/10/i-said-sorry-before-i-fired

  105. Jatt Arya says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Not really as I pointed out above.
    Diversity + Proximity = Conflict

    The latter is still lacking due to there being suburbs up to 50miles north of Toronto still being developed.
    The 401 corridor is among the continent’s most crowded.
    It’s still unfortunately a few decades until race riots there.

    ‘Hyper-diversity’ also means each ethnic group has their native enemies to fight and no single group to unite against.

    The Toronto CMA has the largest proportions of foreign-born residents (46%) out of all metropolitan areas in the (OECD). The Toronto region is also unusually diverse. The four largest foreign born populations constitute 15% of the total foreign-born population. This is opposed to the four largest foreign-born populations of other metro areas such as New York and London, where they make up 25% of their foreign-born populations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto#Ethnic_diversity

    Around 10%: English, Scottish, Irish, Chinese, Indian.
    5-10%: Italian, Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, French, Filipino, Portuguese, German, Sri Lankan etc.

    15 or more groups have the numbers to carve out their own small city/section of the metro and they do.

    State multiculturalism means funding for an Italian association or Ukrainian festival alongside the non-whites who get the same. :shrug:

  106. utu says:
    @reiner Tor

    “Biological weapons development was halted in the USA” – and since Truman renamed the Dept. of War into the Dept. of Defense America ceased to plan wars and prepare for them, right? To devise a defense against bioweapons you must build them. No doubt that the bioweapons are being ‘built’ in America certainly for research if not for actually delivery.

    Obama’s moratorium on Gain of Function civilian research was violated anyway:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985
    https://www.the-scientist.com/the-nutshell/moratorium-on-gain-of-function-research-36564
    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lab-made-coronavirus-triggers-debate-34502

  107. EldnahYm says:
    @Streetshitter

    The Roman Empire had a reasonably stable and in fact steadily growing population until Antonine plague, from which it was recovering until plunged into decades of civil war in the 3rd C. Rome like all pre-industrial cities had a high mortality rate, but Rome the city was a very small portion of the empire’s population.

    Roman Britain and even more so Gaul (France) were doing fine, stable or growing in population. There wasn’t anything unstable about them before the Germanic invasions. Gaul was in fact one of the wealthier and more prosperous parts of the Western Empire.

    Until the Antonine plague, which killed a quarter of the population in most of the heavily populated areas. Rome the city may have been a small proportion of the Empire’s population, but it was the city’s which were the core of the Empire(they were also the centers of literacy, which you were going on about earlier). Once they face decline you are left with loosely connected hinterlands, making you ripe for invasion, rebellion, and civil war. But sure, if you dismiss disease, civil wars, and invasions out of hand, then Rome was fine and stable.

    Again, you engage from the starting point that Roman style civilization was good, therefore any subsequent societies which did not mimic them were failures. But the fact Europe civilization never again came upon the Roman model suggests you need to re-think your priors. One could also mention that people in the Middle Ages had higher life expectancy than those in classical times, or that medieval Europe was more technologically innovative than the Romans.

    Having your population frequently replaced is not what I would call stability. You mentioned American Indians before, the civilized people in Roman cities had more in common with the Indians in the sense that they left almost no descendants. Their entire model of society was conquered and replaced by another people. This is unusual. The Norman or the Vikings did not achieve anything similar in the British Isles. The fact also that the Romans were conquered by small Germanic invaders suggests something was wrong.

  108. EldnahYm says:
    @Streetshitter

    Consistent with what I said. British Bangladeshis from Sylhet are descendants of only a small proportion of people from Sylhet. You are attempting to use the test scores of British people with backgrounds from Sylhet as representative of the average of all people in Sylhet(or Bangladesh). There is no reason to assume they have the same average ability. In fact there is every reason to believe immigrants are on average different from the people left behind.

    Also as an aside, I have seen no good evidence that high caste Hindus are particularly smart or competent.

  109. EldnahYm says:
    @Streetshitter

    One of the people here is from Canada I think. I recently went to Toronto. You a guys are too pessimistic! Toronto is chock full of the kind of immigrants you love to hate, but it’s clean, orderly, wealthy, low-crime, and without any significant anti-immigrant or anti-minority sentiment. “Oh no, we will lose our ancestral homeland of Ohio, and turn into the hell-forsaken Ontario!” You should be so lucky lol.

    Toronto was clean, orderly, wealthy, and low crime before those immigrants came too.

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