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I will be in Polska on Dec 17-30 (itinerary: three days Krakow; pass through Oswiecim, Katowice, Wroclaw; the rest in Warsaw). Will be happy to meet up with Poland based readers. szopen? Polish Perspective?

I will need to get myself this powerful Jew talisman.

It is ironic how I planned to do the Habsburg Reunion, but that fell through due to lodging/scheduling issues. So I am instead going to Poland in my second foreign trip this year because some HBD people are getting together there. Should be interesting to compare it to Romania and my travels in Russia: https://akarlin.com/travel/

***

There won’t be much posting up until the New Year in connection with the above, though I have some additional travel posts lined up to fill in the next two weeks.

Minor announcement. This will be the last Open Thread of this format. Tracking and compiling these links is, unexpectedly, more work than it’s worth… very boring… doesn’t even fulfill an effective reference function… and largely replicates what you can find on my Twitter anyway. So I will be doing away with these links roundups in favor of original posts. The Open Threads will remain but will be much more limited henceforth, featuring my photos and a few comments on topical issues that I can’t be bothered blogging about separately.

Reminder that you can also sign up to my newsletter, and donations are always appreciated: https://akarlin.com/donations/

***

@ak

More notable posts since the last Open Thread in case you missed any of them.

***

Stunning win for Conservatives in the UK. FTR, I have always maintained that Brexit will happen, e.g. see here in October 19. Good to be vindicated.

My opinion on Russia’s Olympics ban. Sole interesting observation: If US also boycotts China in 2022, then we might see the Great Bifurcation extending to the sports world.

I have finished Paul Robinson’s book on Russian Conservatism, couple of particularly interesting highlights here, here. Will do a review in January.

***

Featured

***

Russia

***

World

***

Coffee Salon

***

Culture War

  • Tucker Carlson: ‘For All His Faults’ Putin Doesn’t Hate America as Much as Chuck Todd Does
  • Zach Goldberg: The American Panel Survey had panelists a rate a list of different obscenities in terms of how offended they’d be in witnessing them. Below is a graph comparing the responses of white libs, blacks, and white conservatives.
  • British expat Craig Ashton’s hilarious jokes on learning the Russian language exploded Runet a few months ago. Must read for Russian speakers.
  • Eric Striker: The Skeletons in Katie McHugh’s Closet
  • AK: So remember Roman Yushkov, the Perm professor who was prosecuted – and found not guilty by a based jury – of Holocaust denial? He is now suing the Russian state for SIX MILLION rubles for the moral suffering inflicted upon him.

***

Powerful Takes

***

 
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  1. This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. Noticed some unsettling moments of Ukrainian Westernization and occupation by globohomo recently in fields closer to home for me, which is solidifying my originally soft pro Russian stance very fast.

    I used to enjoy Ukrainian rapper “Yarmak”, who did a sort of folksy play on rap, being a village hopnik and all that. He had a great song “Pidarasiya” about hating gays and beating the shit out of them.

    Now? He has a song dedicated to some Afro Ukrainian sportsball player and his struggles featuring him getting a pretty quasi Nordic looking Slav gf and beating all the raycis people. Not too long after, he posted a translation of some nogs making one of their unoriginal “reaction videos” in booting response and approval.
    On a plus side he released a song in Ukrainian language song about faith, which is very based… Until I scrolled down to find an unironic libtard message in a comment from him about something something all faiths equal and all that bullshit. I also now chronologically notice a lot of these things that can contextually be considered based are timed perfectly with some geopolitical relevance of their topic which further shows he sold out.
    Whereas Ukraine used to be the most respectable of the East Slavic countries what with the great homophobia, racism and other such stuff I predict it will become the worst of the three “Rus” countries within two decades. Very disappointing. I hope this doesn’t mean I have to cuck to Yegor Pogrom tier Russian Nationalists once Putin croaks.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • LOL: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    East Slavic countries what with the great homophobia, racism and other such stuff I predict it will become the worst of the three “Rus” countries within two decades
     
    Like in most things, Ukraine is too poor to "succeed" there.

    Liberal virtue-signalling, only develops real demand (as opposed to fake window decoration from the US state department) when you have bourgeois standards of living.

    Outside some young hipsters that work for startups in Kiev, Ukraine's economy won't produce enough bourgeoisie to demand for any liberal virtue-signalling.

    Actually if you watch any videos of bourgeois things like "Women's March" in Kiev, there are far larger counter-protests of nationalists and religious activists.

    -

    And for London style of "Refugees welcome" - I think you need GDP per capita of $40,000 (aside from not having "luck" to attract welfare "refugees" without it).
    https://i.imgur.com/eHAt6V1.mp4
    , @Nodwink
    Ukraine is a hell-hole. Truly one of the most cursed nations. Nuke it.
    , @Europe Europa
    White people who even entertain the idea that rap "music" is something of artistic merit are not at all "based" in my opinion. Enjoying and emulating Negro rap "music" is the first step on the road to glorifying Negroes.

    For some reason rap "music" seems to be extremely popular in Eastern Europe, significantly more so than it is with Western whites I would say. Black ghetto thug "culture" seems to appeal to a lot of Slavic men, they seem to see black ghetto thugs as the pinnacle of masculinity and toughness.

  3. Polish Perspective?

    Lol people are either very polite (which would be cool), or just somehow beautifully non-observant when commentators are changing names.

    My opinion on Russia’s Olympics ban. Sol

    It includes a ban against Russia as presenting a proposal as host of the Olympics of 2032.

    So there is a large financial saving, as in the news sites in recent months, they were saying that Moscow, Saint Peterburg or even Vladivostok, were going to propose themselves as host of those Olympics. The cost of preparing nomination proposal for a city to enter the competition to be Olympic host can be $100 million. Obviously, this involve a lot of opportunities for people to take various cuts.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor


    Polish Perspective?
     
    Lol people are either very polite (which would be cool), or just somehow beautifully non-observant when commentators are changing names.
     
    Count me in the imperceptive camp. (PP never commented that much anyway, and a long time ago.) What is his new moniker?
  4. So I am instead going to Poland in my second foreign trip this year because some HBD people are getting together there.

    Oh great. Feed the “Russians are coming” hysteria why doncha.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    A few ordinary Russian HBDers probably aren't going to pose much of a threat to Poland.
  5. The history of Olympic bans is interesting. Germany was banned in 1920 Antwerp/1924 Paris/1948 London. Was that nationalism, or anti-nationalism?

    In particular, I think it is telling that South Africa and Rhodesia were banned from participating, but now Africans represent European countries.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Yugoslavia then consisting of Serbia and Montenegro was also banned.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Germany was banned from those Olympic games in the 1920s because the British and French were trying to punish them for supposedly starting the First World War.

    This is one of many examples of the Orwellian nature of Franco-British elites. As an American, in a sense of pure self-interest, I could care less who started World War One: We, the Americans, had nothing to gain from involvement in that war. One of my ancestral relatives, a farmhand, died in France in 1918, and for what? But the Allies had their own agendas.

    By World War Two, they had wised up a bit. They waged a comprehensive total war against the Germans; hideous fire-bombing of harmless large cities, like Darmstadt and Dresden, were combined with small bombings of innocuous rural villages (for example: the tiny but historic Bavarian town of Ellingen was bombed by the USAAF despite having absolutely no military importance whatever) specifically to terrorize the German people and kill as many of them as possible. In the aftermath, the occupation governments simply did what the Allies had tried to do after World War 1: create a nation of self-loathing Germans. But the Allies were smarter this time; they did allow the new German state the outlet of sports. So Germany was never banned from any athletic competitions.

    None of is this conditional on a defense of the Nazi German leadership, of course. One does not have to defend Hitler to realize that the goal of the Allies - particularly the British - was to kill as many Germans as possible, destroy as much of their (pre-Nazi!) culture as possible (they even burned much the works of Richard Strauss, although apparently by accident), and permanently reduce the heart and soul of the German nation.

    There is simply no better way to interpret the co-existence of massive anti-civilian bombing with a sophisticated post-war "re-education" effort. The goal was not just to defeat Nazi Germany, but to subjugate Germany, period. This sort of thing is not unique; human history is obviously full of wars of conquest. What makes World War Two unique is the massive scale and sophistication combined with the "Christian crusade" pretense, an example of which would be how the British and Americans often sought to deceive their pilots and their populations that bombing refugees was necessary to end the war. Absurd! As Orwell said, such deceit is necessary to convince "highly civilized men" to fire-bomb whole cities.

    This is all important for us to learn, though, because it is very similar to the globalist plan for our western countries. They have simply relied less on the heavy steel bludgeon of war and more on the captivating trap of profitable materialism.

  6. @Belarusian Dude
    Noticed some unsettling moments of Ukrainian Westernization and occupation by globohomo recently in fields closer to home for me, which is solidifying my originally soft pro Russian stance very fast.

    I used to enjoy Ukrainian rapper "Yarmak", who did a sort of folksy play on rap, being a village hopnik and all that. He had a great song "Pidarasiya" about hating gays and beating the shit out of them.

    Now? He has a song dedicated to some Afro Ukrainian sportsball player and his struggles featuring him getting a pretty quasi Nordic looking Slav gf and beating all the raycis people. Not too long after, he posted a translation of some nogs making one of their unoriginal "reaction videos" in booting response and approval.
    On a plus side he released a song in Ukrainian language song about faith, which is very based... Until I scrolled down to find an unironic libtard message in a comment from him about something something all faiths equal and all that bullshit. I also now chronologically notice a lot of these things that can contextually be considered based are timed perfectly with some geopolitical relevance of their topic which further shows he sold out.
    Whereas Ukraine used to be the most respectable of the East Slavic countries what with the great homophobia, racism and other such stuff I predict it will become the worst of the three "Rus" countries within two decades. Very disappointing. I hope this doesn't mean I have to cuck to Yegor Pogrom tier Russian Nationalists once Putin croaks.

    East Slavic countries what with the great homophobia, racism and other such stuff I predict it will become the worst of the three “Rus” countries within two decades

    Like in most things, Ukraine is too poor to “succeed” there.

    Liberal virtue-signalling, only develops real demand (as opposed to fake window decoration from the US state department) when you have bourgeois standards of living.

    Outside some young hipsters that work for startups in Kiev, Ukraine’s economy won’t produce enough bourgeoisie to demand for any liberal virtue-signalling.

    Actually if you watch any videos of bourgeois things like “Women’s March” in Kiev, there are far larger counter-protests of nationalists and religious activists.

    And for London style of “Refugees welcome” – I think you need GDP per capita of $40,000 (aside from not having “luck” to attract welfare “refugees” without it).

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Actually if you watch any videos of bourgeois things like “Women’s March” in Kiev, there are far larger counter-protests of nationalists and religious activists.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsYFfIe4MaY


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZjfAFtqi9c

    Just a few feminists to march - probably with the US embassy - on International Women's Day in Kiev so they can pretend they are in Europe -, and they need this kind of police operation to arrest counter-protesters (I guess some nationalists came, not those peaceful traditionalists).

  7. @Dmitry

    East Slavic countries what with the great homophobia, racism and other such stuff I predict it will become the worst of the three “Rus” countries within two decades
     
    Like in most things, Ukraine is too poor to "succeed" there.

    Liberal virtue-signalling, only develops real demand (as opposed to fake window decoration from the US state department) when you have bourgeois standards of living.

    Outside some young hipsters that work for startups in Kiev, Ukraine's economy won't produce enough bourgeoisie to demand for any liberal virtue-signalling.

    Actually if you watch any videos of bourgeois things like "Women's March" in Kiev, there are far larger counter-protests of nationalists and religious activists.

    -

    And for London style of "Refugees welcome" - I think you need GDP per capita of $40,000 (aside from not having "luck" to attract welfare "refugees" without it).
    https://i.imgur.com/eHAt6V1.mp4

    Actually if you watch any videos of bourgeois things like “Women’s March” in Kiev, there are far larger counter-protests of nationalists and religious activists.

    Just a few feminists to march – probably with the US embassy – on International Women’s Day in Kiev so they can pretend they are in Europe -, and they need this kind of police operation to arrest counter-protesters (I guess some nationalists came, not those peaceful traditionalists).

    • Replies: @Belarusian Dude
    You're underestimating the power of TV, and other media of indoctrination way too much. A decade of little Pavlos and Danylos being told fucking nogs and other men before cutting off your cock is the way to go will have fast, noticeable effects. Yarmak who I brought up as example had very little in the way of audience change, mostly the same lower/middle class central Ukrainians. But the comments he has on YouTube change to mirror the things he sings.
  8. Inquisitive Bird: Waist-to-hip ratios of Playboy models and Miss pageant winners.

    I take it this trendline is supposed show that exaggerated secondary sexual characteristics now have a higher market price, demonstrating a coincidence with the 1920s right before the big crash of the Great Depression.

    If so, it is an interesting theory – perhaps correct. But something makes me want to throw out the whole Playboy dataset, after they have had one or two trannies. Maybe, they’ve been removed as datapoints, but it still violates my purity instincts.

  9. @Dmitry

    Actually if you watch any videos of bourgeois things like “Women’s March” in Kiev, there are far larger counter-protests of nationalists and religious activists.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsYFfIe4MaY


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZjfAFtqi9c

    Just a few feminists to march - probably with the US embassy - on International Women's Day in Kiev so they can pretend they are in Europe -, and they need this kind of police operation to arrest counter-protesters (I guess some nationalists came, not those peaceful traditionalists).

    You’re underestimating the power of TV, and other media of indoctrination way too much. A decade of little Pavlos and Danylos being told fucking nogs and other men before cutting off your cock is the way to go will have fast, noticeable effects. Yarmak who I brought up as example had very little in the way of audience change, mostly the same lower/middle class central Ukrainians. But the comments he has on YouTube change to mirror the things he sings.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @neutral

    You’re underestimating the power of TV
     
    He is a jew, he knows precisely (((who))) controls TV and how is really does massive social engineering.

    Kiev will be non white majority by 2050, this is inevitable, there will be a mass migration of Africans and mass miscegenation, those dumb people wanted this with that stupid Maidan cuckery.

    , @Mr. Hack

    A decade of little Pavlos and Danylos being told fucking nogs and other men before cutting off your cock is the way to go will have fast, noticeable effects.
     
    \\

    Young Ukrainian women protesting against feminism on TV (what is shown within Dmitry's video) in favor of Orthodox Christian family values is somehow going to increase the appetite of little Ukrainian boys to undergo circumcision? Please tell more prey tell?...

    , @Dmitry

    You’re underestimating the power of TV, and other media

     

    From what I watch, Ukraine television channels are usually more "racist, sexist, vulgar", less objective (generally stupid as well), compared to television in Russia, let alone to North Western Europe (where television can even be "high IQ").

    Ukraine's media is matching the demand of the audience, which at a proletarian yellow press.

    And since 2014, it seems like Ukraine's politics is moving further from a "high IQ Western European country", rather than becoming more Western.

    But probably what will happen, is (hopefully) Ukraine's economy will develop, its politics will stabilize, and the people will become more moderate and balanced. In terms of internal politics, if Ukraine's economy develops and they have some decades of political stability - people achieve a moderate politics as in Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc (but with a 20 year development delay).

    This is my optimistic projection. (We can easily predict Ukraine's politics will not become like Sweden anytime soon, any more than will their standard of living).


    Yarmak who I brought up as example
     
    Artists, musicians, creative professionals, usually have their "idealistic" views, but does that mean you match their politics when you are older? I remember when I was 15 years old, I already knew most celebrities are simplistic, or - emotional rather than analytical people.
    , @Gerad. 14
    On your bit about "Pavlo's and Danylo's"....it is important and very funny to note that the most popular newborn names for boys and girls in Kiev are practically identical for the top 5 places
  10. Otherwise, similar opinions; plurality of both samples concur with USA = #2 estimate.

    Anatoly, when do you think that India’s economy is going to surpass the US’s economy in PPP and nominal terms?

    I mean, this should happen eventually since India has more than three times the US’s total population and thus even if India’s GDP per capita full potential was only about half that of the US, India should still eventually overtake the US since 3+ > 2.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Actually, India has more like four times the population of the USA.
  11. • LOL: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I see a vagabond traveling through Europe on board overcrowded trains.
    , @Mitleser
    https://twitter.com/calvertjournal/status/1205563308138487808

    “When Time asked me to photograph Greta, I was thinking how can I make a portrait that combines gentleness and at the same time courage. How do I capture the intense, focused gaze inwards as well as outwards, which I feel is characteristic of Greta,” Arbugaeva told the magazine.

    The cover recalls Botticelli’s Birth of Venus and Rineke Dijkstra’s timeless beach portraits. Perhaps above all, Arbugaeva’s interest in capturing our fragile environment made her the best photographer for the shoot.
     
    , @Thorfinnsson
    2/10 wnb
    , @AnonFromTN
    Russians are refreshingly not politically correct.
    I’ve seen this post recently, both phrases were accompanied by pictures.
    Thunberg: “My generations will decide…”
    Response: “Your generation can’t even decide whether they are boys or girls”.
    Response from another blogger to this comment: “Usually oligophrens are kindly, but there is so much malice on her face”.
    , @Morton's toes
    E. Michael Jones take on Greta Thunberg on Tim Kelly's podcast is the funniest thing on the internet all year.

    https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/tkelly6785757/episodes/2019-11-12T05_44_02-08_00

    He takes 17 min and 36 seconds to get around to Greta Thunberg and that can be skipped if you are in a hurry.
    , @Morton's toes
    And also if anybody in the world thinks that the kid is any kind of a voice of people here is a youtube of her mom from 2009 when she was in the eurovision tv show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE9Pl3mqRbo
  12. @Mr. XYZ

    Otherwise, similar opinions; plurality of both samples concur with USA = #2 estimate.
     
    Anatoly, when do you think that India's economy is going to surpass the US's economy in PPP and nominal terms?

    I mean, this should happen eventually since India has more than three times the US's total population and thus even if India's GDP per capita full potential was only about half that of the US, India should still eventually overtake the US since 3+ > 2.

    Actually, India has more like four times the population of the USA.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    "More than three times" is perfectly compatible with "four times".
  13. @Thulean Friend
    https://i.imgur.com/6kk5XhS.jpg

    I see a vagabond traveling through Europe on board overcrowded trains.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    DB treated her shabbily for exposing their poor service.
  14. @Dmitry

    Polish Perspective?
     
    Lol people are either very polite (which would be cool), or just somehow beautifully non-observant when commentators are changing names.

    My opinion on Russia’s Olympics ban. Sol
     
    It includes a ban against Russia as presenting a proposal as host of the Olympics of 2032.

    So there is a large financial saving, as in the news sites in recent months, they were saying that Moscow, Saint Peterburg or even Vladivostok, were going to propose themselves as host of those Olympics. The cost of preparing nomination proposal for a city to enter the competition to be Olympic host can be $100 million. Obviously, this involve a lot of opportunities for people to take various cuts.

    Polish Perspective?

    Lol people are either very polite (which would be cool), or just somehow beautifully non-observant when commentators are changing names.

    Count me in the imperceptive camp. (PP never commented that much anyway, and a long time ago.) What is his new moniker?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    There's some similarity in style and outlook between him and Thulean, which I've remarked on idly, but am sure they're different people.

    I wonder if Dmitry had the same thing in mind.
  15. @reiner Tor


    Polish Perspective?
     
    Lol people are either very polite (which would be cool), or just somehow beautifully non-observant when commentators are changing names.
     
    Count me in the imperceptive camp. (PP never commented that much anyway, and a long time ago.) What is his new moniker?

    There’s some similarity in style and outlook between him and Thulean, which I’ve remarked on idly, but am sure they’re different people.

    I wonder if Dmitry had the same thing in mind.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    I hope so. It would make me an Indian-Swedish-Polish mutt. I would only add a Chinese part then I am set!
    , @reiner Tor
    Is PP a vegetarian?
    , @Swedish Family

    There’s some similarity in style and outlook between him and Thulean, which I’ve remarked on idly, but am sure they’re different people.

    I wonder if Dmitry had the same thing in mind.
     
    Polish Perspective, if memory serves, dreamt of living out his days in a dacha by the White Sea, which is about the least Swedish dream I've ever heard of.
  16. • Replies: @Mitleser
    Being a client state is not free.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/bfm1808.jpg
  17. @Anatoly Karlin
    There's some similarity in style and outlook between him and Thulean, which I've remarked on idly, but am sure they're different people.

    I wonder if Dmitry had the same thing in mind.

    I hope so. It would make me an Indian-Swedish-Polish mutt. I would only add a Chinese part then I am set!

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    Still no love for the Russians I see 😄
  18. @reiner Tor
    I see a vagabond traveling through Europe on board overcrowded trains.

    DB treated her shabbily for exposing their poor service.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    But wait, there's a twist!


    A German railway company has taken back an apology they made to Greta Thunberg after they realized the climate activist wasn’t schlepping it on the train’s floor but instead was treated “friendly” in first class.

    The rail company was responding to an image Thunberg tweeted of herself sitting amid bags and suitcases on the floor of what she called “overcrowded trains through Germany.”
    ...
    But upon reflection, Deutsche Bahn said Thunberg’s “overcrowded” claims were just hot air.

    The rail company claimed the teenager had a seat in first class between Kassel and Hamburg and that other members of her team were already sitting in first class from Frankfurt onwards.

    “It would have been even nicer if you had also reported how friendly and competently our team served you at your seat in first class,” the company added.

    Thunberg then claimed that jam-packed trains were actually great and having to sit on the floor wasn’t an issue.

    “…this is no problem of course and I never said it was,” she tweeted. “Overcrowded trains is a great sign because it means the demand for train travel is high!”

     

    https://nypost.com/2019/12/15/german-railway-claims-greta-thunberg-lied-about-taking-first-class/
  19. @Belarusian Dude
    You're underestimating the power of TV, and other media of indoctrination way too much. A decade of little Pavlos and Danylos being told fucking nogs and other men before cutting off your cock is the way to go will have fast, noticeable effects. Yarmak who I brought up as example had very little in the way of audience change, mostly the same lower/middle class central Ukrainians. But the comments he has on YouTube change to mirror the things he sings.

    You’re underestimating the power of TV

    He is a jew, he knows precisely (((who))) controls TV and how is really does massive social engineering.

    Kiev will be non white majority by 2050, this is inevitable, there will be a mass migration of Africans and mass miscegenation, those dumb people wanted this with that stupid Maidan cuckery.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    Why would an African go to Ukraine when France, Germany and Sweden are right next to it
    , @Thorfinnsson
    This is stupid.

    2050 is only 31 years away.

    The Ukrainian economy would need to improve at a rate of 4% per capita per year over the next three decades simply to reach the same GDP PPP per capita as Russia and Poland have right now.

    To reach the same level as Western Europe today it will need to grow at a blistering 6% per capita for three decades.

    Russia is of course outside the Western orbit (though hardly based and redpilled), but Warsaw certainly isn't majority non-white. And most Western European capital cities aren't even majority non-white yet. As far as I know it's only London and Paris.
  20. From a British children’s encylopedia on the Irish. The 1950s.

    My favourite part:

    Then there is the tall, often blue-eyed, engaging Irishman of easy address and good-humoured air, who would wile a bird from a bough by his fluent tongue, ready for adventure anywhere.

    The progenitor of the Irish writer has thus been found.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    Very politically incorrect by today's standards, but it sounds like an honest and accurate assessment of the situation to me.
    , @AltSerrice
    I was sent that this morning by multiple people, my view on it as follows:

    'There’s certainly an element of accuracy in that assessment. The people on the West coast have an almost identical genetic identity to the 5000 year old bog bodies we dig up. And they do tend to be a bit darker of skin, hair, and eyes than the rest of the country. (Though obviously not even Mediterranean dark since it is Ireland we're talking about).

    Really it goes back to the arrivals of the different groups that settled Ireland according to our ancient chronicles. The most important of which being the Fir Bolg, the Tuatha de Danann, and the Milesians. The degree to which it is myth or history is contentious, but the arrivals identified in the Book of Invasions correspond suspiciously with the infusion of new genes into Ireland as identified from sequencing ancient corpses.

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others. The Milesians on the other hand are more closely related to Spanish Celts in Galicia and were the later arrivals, settling the South and West coasts. The Fir Bolg and other smaller groups are harder to identify as they have been diffused and assimilated over many millennia.'
    , @Yevardian
    http://humanphenotypes.net/PaleoAtlantid.html

    http://humanphenotypes.net/NorthAtlantid.html
    Types 1 and 2-3 respectively.
  21. @Anatoly Karlin
    There's some similarity in style and outlook between him and Thulean, which I've remarked on idly, but am sure they're different people.

    I wonder if Dmitry had the same thing in mind.

    Is PP a vegetarian?

    • Replies: @songbird
    I liked PP. I wish he would come back, but I will quibble with him on two points:

    1.) he once used the word "Eurocentric." A truly awful word. His use of it was non-political. And, perhaps, it has a certain value in the context he was using it, but I really hate the word.

    2.) I think he gave too much credence to political "scientists." Perhaps, this is just my American bias, but most political "scientists" in the US seem like worthless, partisan hacks.
  22. @neutral

    You’re underestimating the power of TV
     
    He is a jew, he knows precisely (((who))) controls TV and how is really does massive social engineering.

    Kiev will be non white majority by 2050, this is inevitable, there will be a mass migration of Africans and mass miscegenation, those dumb people wanted this with that stupid Maidan cuckery.

    Why would an African go to Ukraine when France, Germany and Sweden are right next to it

    • Replies: @neutral

    Why would an African go to Ukraine when France, Germany and Sweden are right next to it
     
    Two reasons.
    1) The Ukrainian cargo cult that wishes to emulate their American masters in all things, they already had gay pride parades under heavy military protection, they will worship blacks as gods no different to how they do it in America. Miscegenation propaganda has probably started, state media, and other mass media outlets will no doubt be pushing this ever harder. They will actively push to import Africans, no different to the rest of the EU.

    2) Blacks go where white people are, the increasing browning of Western Europe will mean more of them will seek better places in Eastern Europe.
  23. @Thulean Friend
    I hope so. It would make me an Indian-Swedish-Polish mutt. I would only add a Chinese part then I am set!

    Still no love for the Russians I see 😄

  24. @Thulean Friend
    https://i.imgur.com/6kk5XhS.jpg

    “When Time asked me to photograph Greta, I was thinking how can I make a portrait that combines gentleness and at the same time courage. How do I capture the intense, focused gaze inwards as well as outwards, which I feel is characteristic of Greta,” Arbugaeva told the magazine.

    The cover recalls Botticelli’s Birth of Venus and Rineke Dijkstra’s timeless beach portraits. Perhaps above all, Arbugaeva’s interest in capturing our fragile environment made her the best photographer for the shoot.

  25. @Korenchkin
    Why would an African go to Ukraine when France, Germany and Sweden are right next to it

    Why would an African go to Ukraine when France, Germany and Sweden are right next to it

    Two reasons.
    1) The Ukrainian cargo cult that wishes to emulate their American masters in all things, they already had gay pride parades under heavy military protection, they will worship blacks as gods no different to how they do it in America. Miscegenation propaganda has probably started, state media, and other mass media outlets will no doubt be pushing this ever harder. They will actively push to import Africans, no different to the rest of the EU.

    2) Blacks go where white people are, the increasing browning of Western Europe will mean more of them will seek better places in Eastern Europe.

    • Replies: @AP
    Neutral has a very active imagination.

    Ukraine and Belarus are the most European places on Earth and will stay that way. He wishes his personal misery onto others.
    , @Europe Europa
    Non-white immigrants go where the money is best and that's still Western Europe by a wide margin. Non-white immigrants aren't going to go to Eastern Europe when the rate of emigration from most of those countries is much higher than the rate of immigration.
    , @Korenchkin
    Sorry but that sounds retarded
  26. Sinotriumph

  27. @songbird
    The history of Olympic bans is interesting. Germany was banned in 1920 Antwerp/1924 Paris/1948 London. Was that nationalism, or anti-nationalism?

    In particular, I think it is telling that South Africa and Rhodesia were banned from participating, but now Africans represent European countries.

    Yugoslavia then consisting of Serbia and Montenegro was also banned.

    • Agree: songbird
  28. Leonid Brezhnev & Nikita Khrushchev apparently both spoke pointedly on some Unz Review themes, according to the diaries of the famous USA foreign policy figure, George Kennan (1904-2005).

    Despite fathering the ‘containment of Russia’ theme for US government in the late 1940s, Kennan was a major advocate of détente, in part because of a strong sense of the distinctiveness of euro-white culture, whether communist or not, and of the need to preserve that culture, which led Kennan to be a strong anti-immigrationist.

    Kennan saw developing world peoples as prone to view gibs-granting whites as “stupid, uncertain, weak, and obviously on the skids of history”, ripe for demographic conquest. The below is from
    https://www.amren.com/features/2014/06/the-george-kennan-diaries/

    George Kennan fully agreed with his friend, the historian John Lukacs, who wrote in 1961 that “the most important fact in the second half of the century may be that, after all, the Russians are white.”

    During a 1979 summit meeting with newly elected British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Chairman Leonid Brezhnev, Thatcher said she saw no reason why their two countries could not have better relations. Mr. Brezhnev agreed, but went further: “Madame, there is only one important question facing us, and that is the question whether the white race will survive.” Mrs. Thatcher was so taken aback that she immediately left the room.

    Nikita Khrushchev visited Paris in March 1960 and met Charles de Gaulle. At one point, in a reference to the problems the Soviets were having with their internal Asiatic populations and with the Chinese, he moved close to de Gaulle and said confidentially, “We are white, you French and us.”

    For Kennan, “Others are destroying civilization with their proliferation, our civilization as well as theirs.”

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    George Kennan was no friend of Russia's.

    'X' Marks The Spot: Vladimir Putin As Explained By George Kennan

    https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2014/03/07/ukraine-russia-thomas-j-whalen

    Neither was Margaret Thatcher.

    The Russians are bent on world dominance, and they are rapidly acquiring the means to become the most powerful imperial nation the world has seen.
     

    They know that they are a super power in only one sense—the military sense. They are a failure in human and economic terms.
     
    Neither was Charles de Gaulle

    Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French.
     
  29. @reiner Tor
    Based Japan:

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/12/12/national/crime-legal/kawasaki-first-japan-bill-punishing-hate-speech/

    Being a client state is not free.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    What exactly are you trying to demonstrate with this chart?
  30. An example of how things can kind of even out:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/12/14/czech-russian-relations-and-the-roa-conflicting-historical-narratives/

    In Soviet times, recognition of the ROA’s role in liberating Prague wasn’t permitted in Czechoslovakia.

    • Replies: @another anon
    Indeed. Vlasov and Vlasovites are now suddenly back in the breaking news.
    What happened?

    Small Czech village near Prague decided to build memorial honoring soldiers of Vlasov army. When Russian media protested, mayor declared war against Russia and threatened to hang Russian foreign minister.

    https://twitter.com/AmbRusCz/status/1204744026903199746

    https://twitter.com/A_Gasparyan/status/1204732527300300802

    https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/domaci/pavel-novotny-starosta-reporyje-rusko-reporteri-sergej-lavrov-zive-vysilani.A191216_125326_domaci_chtl

    (use google translate)

    Any comments?

    AK is not fan of Vlasov, to put it mildly, but Czechs have his sympathy.

    General Vlasov, Soviet Patriot
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/soviet-vlasov/

    Is Czechia the World's Best Country?
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/czechia-best-country/
  31. @Thulean Friend
    From a British children's encylopedia on the Irish. The 1950s.

    https://i.imgur.com/PBfLqiV.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/PItGX2l.jpg

    My favourite part:

    Then there is the tall, often blue-eyed, engaging Irishman of easy address and good-humoured air, who would wile a bird from a bough by his fluent tongue, ready for adventure anywhere.
     
    The progenitor of the Irish writer has thus been found.

    Very politically incorrect by today’s standards, but it sounds like an honest and accurate assessment of the situation to me.

  32. @neutral

    Why would an African go to Ukraine when France, Germany and Sweden are right next to it
     
    Two reasons.
    1) The Ukrainian cargo cult that wishes to emulate their American masters in all things, they already had gay pride parades under heavy military protection, they will worship blacks as gods no different to how they do it in America. Miscegenation propaganda has probably started, state media, and other mass media outlets will no doubt be pushing this ever harder. They will actively push to import Africans, no different to the rest of the EU.

    2) Blacks go where white people are, the increasing browning of Western Europe will mean more of them will seek better places in Eastern Europe.

    Neutral has a very active imagination.

    Ukraine and Belarus are the most European places on Earth and will stay that way. He wishes his personal misery onto others.

    • Replies: @neutral
    You are just suffering from pathological denial. You have an explosion of sub Saharans, you have dumb cuck Ukranians and you have ultra hard left US and EU regimes that want endless non white immigration. Yet for some unexplained reason Ukraine is immune from this, is there some magic dirt in Ukraine I am not aware you idiot.
    , @melanf

    Ukraine and Belarus are the most European places on Earth and will stay that way
     
    And Ukraine has much better prospects in this regard. If nothing changes-Ukraine has a strong protection against migration

    https://i.redd.it/s0s4vn5cb1441.png
  33. @neutral

    Why would an African go to Ukraine when France, Germany and Sweden are right next to it
     
    Two reasons.
    1) The Ukrainian cargo cult that wishes to emulate their American masters in all things, they already had gay pride parades under heavy military protection, they will worship blacks as gods no different to how they do it in America. Miscegenation propaganda has probably started, state media, and other mass media outlets will no doubt be pushing this ever harder. They will actively push to import Africans, no different to the rest of the EU.

    2) Blacks go where white people are, the increasing browning of Western Europe will mean more of them will seek better places in Eastern Europe.

    Non-white immigrants go where the money is best and that’s still Western Europe by a wide margin. Non-white immigrants aren’t going to go to Eastern Europe when the rate of emigration from most of those countries is much higher than the rate of immigration.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    The original statement was about Kiev, i.e. the city of the Ukraine where "the money is best".
    The Ukraine may stay "white", but that may not apply to its capital in the future.
  34. @Europe Europa
    Non-white immigrants go where the money is best and that's still Western Europe by a wide margin. Non-white immigrants aren't going to go to Eastern Europe when the rate of emigration from most of those countries is much higher than the rate of immigration.

    The original statement was about Kiev, i.e. the city of the Ukraine where “the money is best”.
    The Ukraine may stay “white”, but that may not apply to its capital in the future.

  35. @AP
    Neutral has a very active imagination.

    Ukraine and Belarus are the most European places on Earth and will stay that way. He wishes his personal misery onto others.

    You are just suffering from pathological denial. You have an explosion of sub Saharans, you have dumb cuck Ukranians and you have ultra hard left US and EU regimes that want endless non white immigration. Yet for some unexplained reason Ukraine is immune from this, is there some magic dirt in Ukraine I am not aware you idiot.

    • Replies: @AP

    You are just suffering from pathological denial.
     
    Just as pathological as the denial of the risk posed by a leprechaun invasion.

    you have dumb cuck Ukranians
     
    Review AK's previous post:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL2-tckXUAI9zCT?format=jpg&name=small

    I am not aware you idiot
     
    Clearly you are not aware. But this was just a very funny thing you wrote:

    Blacks go where white people are, the increasing browning of Western Europe will mean more of them will seek better places in Eastern Europe.

    That's right. It's why blacks stopped going to London or New York, right? LOL.
  36. @Brabantian
    Leonid Brezhnev & Nikita Khrushchev apparently both spoke pointedly on some Unz Review themes, according to the diaries of the famous USA foreign policy figure, George Kennan (1904-2005).

    Despite fathering the 'containment of Russia' theme for US government in the late 1940s, Kennan was a major advocate of détente, in part because of a strong sense of the distinctiveness of euro-white culture, whether communist or not, and of the need to preserve that culture, which led Kennan to be a strong anti-immigrationist.

    Kennan saw developing world peoples as prone to view gibs-granting whites as "stupid, uncertain, weak, and obviously on the skids of history", ripe for demographic conquest. The below is from
    https://www.amren.com/features/2014/06/the-george-kennan-diaries/


    George Kennan fully agreed with his friend, the historian John Lukacs, who wrote in 1961 that “the most important fact in the second half of the century may be that, after all, the Russians are white."

    During a 1979 summit meeting with newly elected British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Chairman Leonid Brezhnev, Thatcher said she saw no reason why their two countries could not have better relations. Mr. Brezhnev agreed, but went further: “Madame, there is only one important question facing us, and that is the question whether the white race will survive.” Mrs. Thatcher was so taken aback that she immediately left the room.

    Nikita Khrushchev visited Paris in March 1960 and met Charles de Gaulle. At one point, in a reference to the problems the Soviets were having with their internal Asiatic populations and with the Chinese, he moved close to de Gaulle and said confidentially, “We are white, you French and us.”

    For Kennan, "Others are destroying civilization with their proliferation, our civilization as well as theirs."
     

    George Kennan was no friend of Russia’s.

    ‘X’ Marks The Spot: Vladimir Putin As Explained By George Kennan

    https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2014/03/07/ukraine-russia-thomas-j-whalen

    Neither was Margaret Thatcher.

    The Russians are bent on world dominance, and they are rapidly acquiring the means to become the most powerful imperial nation the world has seen.

    They know that they are a super power in only one sense—the military sense. They are a failure in human and economic terms.

    Neither was Charles de Gaulle

    Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Gosh, there's just nothing more insufferable and bitterly sardonic than when members of the English establishment lecture others on success in "human terms." Except for the possible desire to deceive nominally Christian subjects, and soothe their own consciences, I cannot comprehend why the English elites traditionally insisted on cloaking selfishness and power with high-falutin' moral indignation. Sadly, they passed this on to their American relatives, so that debacles like the Waco massacre of 1993 are given the shiny pretense of "protecting children" or similar nonsense.

    Take the Irish famine, for one of a hundred or two examples.

    I am really not much of a radical on that subject. I think much of the death toll was, if not "accidental," certainly not "intentional" either. I'm not a proponent of the traditional Irish nationalist position - most passionately espoused by John Mitchel - but, still, even a cursory reading of English newspapers from the 1840s and '50s will reveal their outright happiness at the emptying of Ireland (Now it's free for the magic balm of CAPITAL! Thank God!), and their total lack of concern for gigantic and appalling human suffering.

    , @Mikhail
    The views of Keenan and de Gaulle had evolved into something less confrontatinal.

    Thatcher said some loony things in the 1990s about former Yugo.
  37. @AP
    Neutral has a very active imagination.

    Ukraine and Belarus are the most European places on Earth and will stay that way. He wishes his personal misery onto others.

    Ukraine and Belarus are the most European places on Earth and will stay that way

    And Ukraine has much better prospects in this regard. If nothing changes-Ukraine has a strong protection against migration

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    I couldn't agree more. That's a wonderfully detailed map of European Russia. Thank you so much for posting it. It will come in handy for later reference. Would you happen to have one for the entire Russian Federation ? Thank you in advance melanf.
  38. First cultural observation – all the Uber drivers here are Ukrainians.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill

    WARSAW — The night Roman was beaten up, his radio wasn't working.

    The 33-year-old Ukrainian Uber driver had picked up a rowdy group of young people in Warsaw, who asked him to play Polish dance music. When he told them he couldn’t — and wouldn't hand over his phone, from which he was playing his own music — they became aggressive, hurling expletives. “They told me I don’t respect Polish culture,” Roman recalled.

    He decided to stop the car. After the drunken group got out, he started filming them. And that’s when the fists began to fly. “We don’t live in Ukraine, where everyone is fighting for a piece of bread, we live in Poland,” they shouted at him.

    For Roman — who ended up with injuries to his knee and head and a large bill for damages to his car — the violence was another example of the prejudice he and other Ukrainians face in the Polish capital.

    Roman, who is from the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, came to Poland as part of an influx of immigrants who fled the country after conflict erupted in the eastern Donbas region in 2014. It had become increasingly difficult to make a living in Ukraine. Poland, with its booming economy so close to home, was for many an obvious place to go.
     

    www.us.boell.org/en/2019/10/04/ukrainians-poland-jobs-no-security
    , @AP
    My friend's realtor in Warsaw is a Ukrainian. There are even Ukrainian cops in Poland nowadays.
  39. @melanf

    Ukraine and Belarus are the most European places on Earth and will stay that way
     
    And Ukraine has much better prospects in this regard. If nothing changes-Ukraine has a strong protection against migration

    https://i.redd.it/s0s4vn5cb1441.png

    I couldn’t agree more. That’s a wonderfully detailed map of European Russia. Thank you so much for posting it. It will come in handy for later reference. Would you happen to have one for the entire Russian Federation ? Thank you in advance melanf.

    • Replies: @melanf
    only 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_subjects_of_Russia_by_Human_Development_Index#/media/File:Federal_subjects_of_Russia_by_HDI_(2016).svg
  40. @Anatoly Karlin
    First cultural observation - all the Uber drivers here are Ukrainians.

    WARSAW — The night Roman was beaten up, his radio wasn’t working.

    The 33-year-old Ukrainian Uber driver had picked up a rowdy group of young people in Warsaw, who asked him to play Polish dance music. When he told them he couldn’t — and wouldn’t hand over his phone, from which he was playing his own music — they became aggressive, hurling expletives. “They told me I don’t respect Polish culture,” Roman recalled.

    He decided to stop the car. After the drunken group got out, he started filming them. And that’s when the fists began to fly. “We don’t live in Ukraine, where everyone is fighting for a piece of bread, we live in Poland,” they shouted at him.

    For Roman — who ended up with injuries to his knee and head and a large bill for damages to his car — the violence was another example of the prejudice he and other Ukrainians face in the Polish capital.

    Roman, who is from the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, came to Poland as part of an influx of immigrants who fled the country after conflict erupted in the eastern Donbas region in 2014. It had become increasingly difficult to make a living in Ukraine. Poland, with its booming economy so close to home, was for many an obvious place to go.

    http://www.us.boell.org/en/2019/10/04/ukrainians-poland-jobs-no-security

    • Replies: @AP

    Roman, who is from the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, came to Poland as part of an influx of immigrants who fled the country after conflict erupted in the eastern Donbas region in 2014.
     
    Kharkiv is right next tot he Russian border but he came to Poland. This supports what I had been saying for awhile - Ukrainians have changed from Russia to Poland as their go-to place to make money abroad. And the East has it the worst economically so nowadays Easterners are highly represented.
    , @Swedish Family

    Roman, who is from the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, came to Poland as part of an influx of immigrants who fled the country after conflict erupted in the eastern Donbas region in 2014.
     
    Fled -- Think about that wording for a second. (Unless you don't know, Kharkov is a perfectly nice city in eastern Ukraine.)
  41. @neutral
    You are just suffering from pathological denial. You have an explosion of sub Saharans, you have dumb cuck Ukranians and you have ultra hard left US and EU regimes that want endless non white immigration. Yet for some unexplained reason Ukraine is immune from this, is there some magic dirt in Ukraine I am not aware you idiot.

    You are just suffering from pathological denial.

    Just as pathological as the denial of the risk posed by a leprechaun invasion.

    you have dumb cuck Ukranians

    Review AK’s previous post:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL2-tckXUAI9zCT?format=jpg&name=small

    I am not aware you idiot

    Clearly you are not aware. But this was just a very funny thing you wrote:

    Blacks go where white people are, the increasing browning of Western Europe will mean more of them will seek better places in Eastern Europe.

    That’s right. It’s why blacks stopped going to London or New York, right? LOL.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I agree Ukraine's current views are indeed very likely close to those of Russia or Belarus, but note that that particular map is "fake news." (The one I posted is genuine).
    , @neutral
    Comparing nonexistent fantasy creatures to real world things happening right now, makes sense.
  42. @Anatoly Karlin
    First cultural observation - all the Uber drivers here are Ukrainians.

    My friend’s realtor in Warsaw is a Ukrainian. There are even Ukrainian cops in Poland nowadays.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Prague has Polish tour guides and cab drivers.
  43. Broadly speaking the wealthier the country, the more accepting of left wing agendas such as mass immigration and race mixing. This is true even on a regional level, for example the wealthier the Eastern European country the more accepting of leftist agendas, likewise Portugal is less accepting of it than Spain and the only real difference between those countries is wealth.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    likewise Portugal is less accepting of it than Spain and the only real difference between those countries is wealth.
     
    What is your evidence for this?

    They both seem pretty accepting, if you ask me. Portugal has a mixed PM and Vox, Spain's "far right" party, promotes Latin American immigration.
  44. @Belarusian Dude
    You're underestimating the power of TV, and other media of indoctrination way too much. A decade of little Pavlos and Danylos being told fucking nogs and other men before cutting off your cock is the way to go will have fast, noticeable effects. Yarmak who I brought up as example had very little in the way of audience change, mostly the same lower/middle class central Ukrainians. But the comments he has on YouTube change to mirror the things he sings.

    A decade of little Pavlos and Danylos being told fucking nogs and other men before cutting off your cock is the way to go will have fast, noticeable effects.

    \\

    Young Ukrainian women protesting against feminism on TV (what is shown within Dmitry’s video) in favor of Orthodox Christian family values is somehow going to increase the appetite of little Ukrainian boys to undergo circumcision? Please tell more prey tell?…

    • Troll: Belarusian Dude
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Belarusian Dude:

    I'm a "troll" because I'm requesting that you explain yourself? How dumb is that?

  45. @AP

    You are just suffering from pathological denial.
     
    Just as pathological as the denial of the risk posed by a leprechaun invasion.

    you have dumb cuck Ukranians
     
    Review AK's previous post:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL2-tckXUAI9zCT?format=jpg&name=small

    I am not aware you idiot
     
    Clearly you are not aware. But this was just a very funny thing you wrote:

    Blacks go where white people are, the increasing browning of Western Europe will mean more of them will seek better places in Eastern Europe.

    That's right. It's why blacks stopped going to London or New York, right? LOL.

    I agree Ukraine’s current views are indeed very likely close to those of Russia or Belarus, but note that that particular map is “fake news.” (The one I posted is genuine).

  46. @AP

    You are just suffering from pathological denial.
     
    Just as pathological as the denial of the risk posed by a leprechaun invasion.

    you have dumb cuck Ukranians
     
    Review AK's previous post:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL2-tckXUAI9zCT?format=jpg&name=small

    I am not aware you idiot
     
    Clearly you are not aware. But this was just a very funny thing you wrote:

    Blacks go where white people are, the increasing browning of Western Europe will mean more of them will seek better places in Eastern Europe.

    That's right. It's why blacks stopped going to London or New York, right? LOL.

    Comparing nonexistent fantasy creatures to real world things happening right now, makes sense.

    • Replies: @AP
    Ukraine getting flooded with Africans "right now" or ever is as realistic as it being overrun by Leprechauns.

    IIRC you had claimed in 2014 that Ukraine would soon be flooded by Muslims and Africans. LOL.

    Now your outlandish predictions are placed 30 years in the future. So you are capable of some learning, at least.
  47. @Blinky Bill
    I couldn't agree more. That's a wonderfully detailed map of European Russia. Thank you so much for posting it. It will come in handy for later reference. Would you happen to have one for the entire Russian Federation ? Thank you in advance melanf.
    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  48. Prices

    15 zlotys for 30 gb of mobile data…. Is that remarkably good, or typical these days?

    140 zlotys for a 2.5 hour train to Kraków. Cheaper than UK, more expensive than Russia, though quality remains to be seen.

    Big Mac is 30% more expensive in Poland in Russia (135 vs 175 rubles equivalent), even bigger ratio for the meal (185 rubles vs 285 rubles). I was expecting them to be similar. (Big Mac is alwaya what I strive to look at first since its the keystone comparator product).

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Demographics wise, whiter than Moscow obviously, though would be comparable if you equate Ukrainians with Tajiks and Kyrgyz.

    The stories are true, tons of subcons now. I'm an indophile so OK with that but AquariusAnon would be triggered living here.

    My assessment is that there are more Negroes than in Moscow, Moscow being the most Negrified Russian city. Though tiny in both absolute and relative terms nonetheless, ofc. For now

    Spent just an hour in center, so assessment is preliminary. Infrastructure is functional, comparable to Moscow, though ofc on much smaller scale, it being a smaller city. I would guess QoL in Moscow and Warszawa is comparable. My expectation (backed by stats) is that top tier Russian and Polish cities are comparable, but gulf appears amongst smaller cities and towns.
  49. @neutral
    Comparing nonexistent fantasy creatures to real world things happening right now, makes sense.

    Ukraine getting flooded with Africans “right now” or ever is as realistic as it being overrun by Leprechauns.

    IIRC you had claimed in 2014 that Ukraine would soon be flooded by Muslims and Africans. LOL.

    Now your outlandish predictions are placed 30 years in the future. So you are capable of some learning, at least.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    WNs have a long history of overpredicting catastrophe. I once read that George Lincoln Rockwell was predicting economic collapse by 1970, for instance. Whites have been demographically pummeled since 1970, but the economy only went from strength to strength.

    That said, I don't believe Ukraine to be nearly as immune to negrification as you assert. Africans would prefer to go to western Europe, of course, but that's not always available to them, so they'll take whatever they can get. Some of them would presumably attempt to use Ukraine as a foot in the door, hoping to move farther west later on (not an unrealistic hope), and some portion of those will find it to their liking and stay put. Slow as it is, drip by drip, the bath tub still fills up.
  50. @Blinky Bill

    WARSAW — The night Roman was beaten up, his radio wasn't working.

    The 33-year-old Ukrainian Uber driver had picked up a rowdy group of young people in Warsaw, who asked him to play Polish dance music. When he told them he couldn’t — and wouldn't hand over his phone, from which he was playing his own music — they became aggressive, hurling expletives. “They told me I don’t respect Polish culture,” Roman recalled.

    He decided to stop the car. After the drunken group got out, he started filming them. And that’s when the fists began to fly. “We don’t live in Ukraine, where everyone is fighting for a piece of bread, we live in Poland,” they shouted at him.

    For Roman — who ended up with injuries to his knee and head and a large bill for damages to his car — the violence was another example of the prejudice he and other Ukrainians face in the Polish capital.

    Roman, who is from the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, came to Poland as part of an influx of immigrants who fled the country after conflict erupted in the eastern Donbas region in 2014. It had become increasingly difficult to make a living in Ukraine. Poland, with its booming economy so close to home, was for many an obvious place to go.
     

    www.us.boell.org/en/2019/10/04/ukrainians-poland-jobs-no-security

    Roman, who is from the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, came to Poland as part of an influx of immigrants who fled the country after conflict erupted in the eastern Donbas region in 2014.

    Kharkiv is right next tot he Russian border but he came to Poland. This supports what I had been saying for awhile – Ukrainians have changed from Russia to Poland as their go-to place to make money abroad. And the East has it the worst economically so nowadays Easterners are highly represented.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Do Poles dislike eastern and southern Ukrainians more than central and western Ukrainians?
  51. @Mr. Hack

    A decade of little Pavlos and Danylos being told fucking nogs and other men before cutting off your cock is the way to go will have fast, noticeable effects.
     
    \\

    Young Ukrainian women protesting against feminism on TV (what is shown within Dmitry's video) in favor of Orthodox Christian family values is somehow going to increase the appetite of little Ukrainian boys to undergo circumcision? Please tell more prey tell?...

    Belarusian Dude:

    I’m a “troll” because I’m requesting that you explain yourself? How dumb is that?

    • Replies: @Belarusian Dude
    Because you clearly didn't read my post, I never questioned the ability of some paid for thots to go out on a march I discussed the power of television and other media influencing people. Besides, when Dumenka talks about tolerating gays and has talks with globohomo papists to own the moskals epic style your already off-topic point is even more nonsensical.
  52. @Thulean Friend
    From a British children's encylopedia on the Irish. The 1950s.

    https://i.imgur.com/PBfLqiV.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/PItGX2l.jpg

    My favourite part:

    Then there is the tall, often blue-eyed, engaging Irishman of easy address and good-humoured air, who would wile a bird from a bough by his fluent tongue, ready for adventure anywhere.
     
    The progenitor of the Irish writer has thus been found.

    I was sent that this morning by multiple people, my view on it as follows:

    ‘There’s certainly an element of accuracy in that assessment. The people on the West coast have an almost identical genetic identity to the 5000 year old bog bodies we dig up. And they do tend to be a bit darker of skin, hair, and eyes than the rest of the country. (Though obviously not even Mediterranean dark since it is Ireland we’re talking about).

    Really it goes back to the arrivals of the different groups that settled Ireland according to our ancient chronicles. The most important of which being the Fir Bolg, the Tuatha de Danann, and the Milesians. The degree to which it is myth or history is contentious, but the arrivals identified in the Book of Invasions correspond suspiciously with the infusion of new genes into Ireland as identified from sequencing ancient corpses.

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others. The Milesians on the other hand are more closely related to Spanish Celts in Galicia and were the later arrivals, settling the South and West coasts. The Fir Bolg and other smaller groups are harder to identify as they have been diffused and assimilated over many millennia.’

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    I'm Irish, I don't notice any big regional variations between Irish people, for example my father is from the west coast, Kerry to be exact, he and all my Kerry cousins have blonde hair and blue eyes, very few people in that region look anything other than Northern European
    , @Thulean Friend
    It is because of high quality comments like these why I mainly like the Open Threads the most on this site. Thanks.
    , @AP

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others.
     
    Which regions of Ireland do their descendants live?

    Interesting stuff, I concur with Thulean friend that one comes across neat info in the open thread comments.
    , @Philip Owen
    The children of Don (light) and the children of Llyr (darkness) are featured in the surviving elements of the Mabinogion, a Welsh cycle of legends about ancient gods, downgraded to heroes by the Christian lawyer who recorded it. Writing it down at all was too problematic for the monks. Chunks turn up in Saint's lives but the hero has usually been replaced by a (mostly) Christian Arthur.

    Light/Darkness is a rather elemental story. The migration of the Milesians is likely to have been attached to this rather than reflect the various sides of an invasion. - Pity, good story.

    Shakespeare's King Lear uses elements from the children of Llyr not all of which survive in other versions. MacBeth is about the last but two kings of Strathclyde (Welsh speaking Scotland). It also mixes up history and myth.

    Atlantic Celts are now considered to have arisen along the Atlantic trade routes, particularly in Port-u-gal (the port of the Gauls). The language would originally have been a trading Creole. Nevertheless, the highest %age of R1b genes is found in Wales, especially rural Wales so Celtic formed after the R1b group arrived (and they may have arrived by ship along the Mediterranean not overland by chariot - Sea People's and all that aiming to seize Pretanic (to soothe Irish sensibilities) copper and tin. There is a view that Eiru meant copper and Pretan meant tin, at least in Phonecian if not earlier.

    So the Milesians are likely to have been the R1b carriers.
  53. @Anatoly Karlin
    Prices

    15 zlotys for 30 gb of mobile data.... Is that remarkably good, or typical these days?

    140 zlotys for a 2.5 hour train to Kraków. Cheaper than UK, more expensive than Russia, though quality remains to be seen.

    Big Mac is 30% more expensive in Poland in Russia (135 vs 175 rubles equivalent), even bigger ratio for the meal (185 rubles vs 285 rubles). I was expecting them to be similar. (Big Mac is alwaya what I strive to look at first since its the keystone comparator product).

    Demographics wise, whiter than Moscow obviously, though would be comparable if you equate Ukrainians with Tajiks and Kyrgyz.

    The stories are true, tons of subcons now. I’m an indophile so OK with that but AquariusAnon would be triggered living here.

    My assessment is that there are more Negroes than in Moscow, Moscow being the most Negrified Russian city. Though tiny in both absolute and relative terms nonetheless, ofc. For now

    Spent just an hour in center, so assessment is preliminary. Infrastructure is functional, comparable to Moscow, though ofc on much smaller scale, it being a smaller city. I would guess QoL in Moscow and Warszawa is comparable. My expectation (backed by stats) is that top tier Russian and Polish cities are comparable, but gulf appears amongst smaller cities and towns.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    The stories are true, tons of subcons now.
     
    What, as in British levels? I have to doubt it. Where I live, I can go three blocks and see nothing but subcons, and I bet in Britain's it's worse still.
    , @Matra
    tons of subcons now

    These may just be Gypsies who've moved from neighbouring Slovakia or Czechia. I encountered a couple of these doing restaurant/hotel grunt work during my first visit to Krakow in 2007. I've been to Krakow the last two years in a row, staying in different parts of the city both times, without noticing subcons or any non-whites but I was only there for two nights on each occasion.

    In the case of Warsaw there were more visible blacks in 2012 than when I was last there in 2018, though there still are some about. There used to be a fair number of them hanging round the train station and at some of the hotel & Irish-type bars. My guess is they get their foot in the EU door, get some documentation then head off to Britain, Germany or Sweden. In 2018 Warsaw did have however a noticeable number of people who looked like they were from the Caucasus, always in groups of fairly young men - could've just been tourists or sports fans over for a match, I suppose.
    , @Mr. XYZ
    Are the subcons mostly Indians or mostly Pakistanis and Bangladeshis? It could make a difference because the former might be less troublesome than the latter.
  54. @Belarusian Dude
    Noticed some unsettling moments of Ukrainian Westernization and occupation by globohomo recently in fields closer to home for me, which is solidifying my originally soft pro Russian stance very fast.

    I used to enjoy Ukrainian rapper "Yarmak", who did a sort of folksy play on rap, being a village hopnik and all that. He had a great song "Pidarasiya" about hating gays and beating the shit out of them.

    Now? He has a song dedicated to some Afro Ukrainian sportsball player and his struggles featuring him getting a pretty quasi Nordic looking Slav gf and beating all the raycis people. Not too long after, he posted a translation of some nogs making one of their unoriginal "reaction videos" in booting response and approval.
    On a plus side he released a song in Ukrainian language song about faith, which is very based... Until I scrolled down to find an unironic libtard message in a comment from him about something something all faiths equal and all that bullshit. I also now chronologically notice a lot of these things that can contextually be considered based are timed perfectly with some geopolitical relevance of their topic which further shows he sold out.
    Whereas Ukraine used to be the most respectable of the East Slavic countries what with the great homophobia, racism and other such stuff I predict it will become the worst of the three "Rus" countries within two decades. Very disappointing. I hope this doesn't mean I have to cuck to Yegor Pogrom tier Russian Nationalists once Putin croaks.

    Ukraine is a hell-hole. Truly one of the most cursed nations. Nuke it.

    • Replies: @AP
    "Nodwink's" idea of a hellhole:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXbampGI2Kk&t=509s

    Not diverse enough?
    , @Svevlad
    Nah, Russia needs it - it needs to stop being Ukropland and become core Russia again, then be settled by surplus Siberians. Economic growth +100
  55. @songbird
    The history of Olympic bans is interesting. Germany was banned in 1920 Antwerp/1924 Paris/1948 London. Was that nationalism, or anti-nationalism?

    In particular, I think it is telling that South Africa and Rhodesia were banned from participating, but now Africans represent European countries.

    Germany was banned from those Olympic games in the 1920s because the British and French were trying to punish them for supposedly starting the First World War.

    This is one of many examples of the Orwellian nature of Franco-British elites. As an American, in a sense of pure self-interest, I could care less who started World War One: We, the Americans, had nothing to gain from involvement in that war. One of my ancestral relatives, a farmhand, died in France in 1918, and for what? But the Allies had their own agendas.

    By World War Two, they had wised up a bit. They waged a comprehensive total war against the Germans; hideous fire-bombing of harmless large cities, like Darmstadt and Dresden, were combined with small bombings of innocuous rural villages (for example: the tiny but historic Bavarian town of Ellingen was bombed by the USAAF despite having absolutely no military importance whatever) specifically to terrorize the German people and kill as many of them as possible. In the aftermath, the occupation governments simply did what the Allies had tried to do after World War 1: create a nation of self-loathing Germans. But the Allies were smarter this time; they did allow the new German state the outlet of sports. So Germany was never banned from any athletic competitions.

    None of is this conditional on a defense of the Nazi German leadership, of course. One does not have to defend Hitler to realize that the goal of the Allies – particularly the British – was to kill as many Germans as possible, destroy as much of their (pre-Nazi!) culture as possible (they even burned much the works of Richard Strauss, although apparently by accident), and permanently reduce the heart and soul of the German nation.

    There is simply no better way to interpret the co-existence of massive anti-civilian bombing with a sophisticated post-war “re-education” effort. The goal was not just to defeat Nazi Germany, but to subjugate Germany, period. This sort of thing is not unique; human history is obviously full of wars of conquest. What makes World War Two unique is the massive scale and sophistication combined with the “Christian crusade” pretense, an example of which would be how the British and Americans often sought to deceive their pilots and their populations that bombing refugees was necessary to end the war. Absurd! As Orwell said, such deceit is necessary to convince “highly civilized men” to fire-bomb whole cities.

    This is all important for us to learn, though, because it is very similar to the globalist plan for our western countries. They have simply relied less on the heavy steel bludgeon of war and more on the captivating trap of profitable materialism.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I suppose with the '48 games, they were really the '44 games delayed. So, I guess the ban of German/Japan might have a certain logic.

    But, it becomes kind of bizarre, if you consider that German forced labor was used to help build the facilities, and that Germany and Japan were brought to their knees and occupied. And also, that the Olympics are ostensibly about promoting peace and good relations between nations.

    I am not really a fan of these political machinations, including boycotts. Though, IMO, the biggest insult is when the athletes are allowed to compete without the flag. I have to also say that I don't like how countries march separately at the opening, and then mixed at the close. Today, when so many masks have dropped, it seems like a globalist ritual about symbolically dissolving nations.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    You're projecting too much of the postwar settlement onto the wartime allied bombing campaign. And actually it should be noted that the "re-education" effort didn't go into overdrive until the 68ers arrived on the scene. De-nazification was handed over to the Germans themselves in 1946 and over by 1950. The early federal republic was a conservative society in which many officials from the Third Reich served in high government positions.

    As for the bombing campaign specifically, the British quickly discovered that they sustained unsustainable attrition in daylight raids. This prompted a shift to night time bombing, which with the technology of the time precluded accurate bombing. Based on studies of British civilian morale during the Blitz, the British concluded that the most devastating impact to civilian morale came from destroying people's homes. This led to "dehousing" being adopted by the British cabinet in 1942.

    The USAAF for its part maintained a focus on daylight raids on strategic industries. The 500 pound bombs dropped by American bombers had been specifically designed to destroy mechanical factory power transmission systems (the geniuses in the air corps failed to notice the electrification of industry). This began inauspiciously with the failed effort to knock out ball bearing production but ended triumphantly with the successful destruction of Germany's oil industry.

    Late war bombing of peripheral areas was simply due to the Law of the Hammer and was probably also done to intimidate the USSR.
  56. @Blinky Bill
    George Kennan was no friend of Russia's.

    'X' Marks The Spot: Vladimir Putin As Explained By George Kennan

    https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2014/03/07/ukraine-russia-thomas-j-whalen

    Neither was Margaret Thatcher.

    The Russians are bent on world dominance, and they are rapidly acquiring the means to become the most powerful imperial nation the world has seen.
     

    They know that they are a super power in only one sense—the military sense. They are a failure in human and economic terms.
     
    Neither was Charles de Gaulle

    Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French.
     

    Gosh, there’s just nothing more insufferable and bitterly sardonic than when members of the English establishment lecture others on success in “human terms.” Except for the possible desire to deceive nominally Christian subjects, and soothe their own consciences, I cannot comprehend why the English elites traditionally insisted on cloaking selfishness and power with high-falutin’ moral indignation. Sadly, they passed this on to their American relatives, so that debacles like the Waco massacre of 1993 are given the shiny pretense of “protecting children” or similar nonsense.

    Take the Irish famine, for one of a hundred or two examples.

    I am really not much of a radical on that subject. I think much of the death toll was, if not “accidental,” certainly not “intentional” either. I’m not a proponent of the traditional Irish nationalist position – most passionately espoused by John Mitchel – but, still, even a cursory reading of English newspapers from the 1840s and ’50s will reveal their outright happiness at the emptying of Ireland (Now it’s free for the magic balm of CAPITAL! Thank God!), and their total lack of concern for gigantic and appalling human suffering.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...Irish famine: much of the death toll was, if not “accidental,” certainly not “intentional” either.
     
    Motifs are never possible to ascertain. That is true for individuals and nations. How would we know? By asking? Or looking at results and assuming that they were intended? Or, the latest fad in the West, simply assigning motifs based on who you are? (That's actually a rediscovered ancient tribal custom.) None of it works, motivations are a mystery better left to the divine.

    Dzingischan, Attila, Ceasar, Charlemagne and similar historical mass murderers were proud of their motivations. But that is rare these days. "Cloaking selfishness and power with high-falutin’ moral indignation" is the norm, maybe it has something to do with the ever-metastizing Christian ideas, or possibly with enlightenment. Or women.

    Anglos bombed Germany into a fire-ball because they could. I am sure many among them also enjoyed it. As many Anglos in the 19th century enjoyed 'emptying of Ireland' and today would enjoy 'emptying of the vast Eurasian space', while simultaneously crying about how much they 'respect' or 'admire' the people or culture there. They do it because they can, and because it is good for them materially. They get very angry when realities on the ground keep them from doing it - that's when 'moral indignation' really kicks into high gear. We live through one of those times.

  57. @AltSerrice
    I was sent that this morning by multiple people, my view on it as follows:

    'There’s certainly an element of accuracy in that assessment. The people on the West coast have an almost identical genetic identity to the 5000 year old bog bodies we dig up. And they do tend to be a bit darker of skin, hair, and eyes than the rest of the country. (Though obviously not even Mediterranean dark since it is Ireland we're talking about).

    Really it goes back to the arrivals of the different groups that settled Ireland according to our ancient chronicles. The most important of which being the Fir Bolg, the Tuatha de Danann, and the Milesians. The degree to which it is myth or history is contentious, but the arrivals identified in the Book of Invasions correspond suspiciously with the infusion of new genes into Ireland as identified from sequencing ancient corpses.

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others. The Milesians on the other hand are more closely related to Spanish Celts in Galicia and were the later arrivals, settling the South and West coasts. The Fir Bolg and other smaller groups are harder to identify as they have been diffused and assimilated over many millennia.'

    I’m Irish, I don’t notice any big regional variations between Irish people, for example my father is from the west coast, Kerry to be exact, he and all my Kerry cousins have blonde hair and blue eyes, very few people in that region look anything other than Northern European

    • Replies: @AltSerrice
    As am I. I'm not saying there is a radical difference, or that there is a strict boundary in terms of appearance - obviously all groups have mixed greatly over the many thousands of years we've been on this island.

    However, I certainly do notice than some regions of the country seem to produce stockier and more sallow people as a greater portion of the population than other regions. And yes they do still look Northern European - but compare differences even among Northern Europeans; Danes are shorter and more tanned than Norwegians. In fact our own historical accounts of the Vikings referred to the Danes as 'dark foreigners' and the Swedes/Norwegians as the 'pale foreigners.'

  58. @Blinky Bill
    George Kennan was no friend of Russia's.

    'X' Marks The Spot: Vladimir Putin As Explained By George Kennan

    https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2014/03/07/ukraine-russia-thomas-j-whalen

    Neither was Margaret Thatcher.

    The Russians are bent on world dominance, and they are rapidly acquiring the means to become the most powerful imperial nation the world has seen.
     

    They know that they are a super power in only one sense—the military sense. They are a failure in human and economic terms.
     
    Neither was Charles de Gaulle

    Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French.
     

    The views of Keenan and de Gaulle had evolved into something less confrontatinal.

    Thatcher said some loony things in the 1990s about former Yugo.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill

    The views of Keenan and de Gaulle had evolved into something less confrontatinal.
     
    I agree with your statement. What I disagree with is the people who believe that the Individuals mentioned above, deep deep down in their hearts had nothing but love and goodwill towards Mother Russia. If the Russians simply caste away their bias and ignorance they would see it too. Judge these characters not by what they say but rather by how they have behaved towards Russia. Classic example of this is the sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships from France to Russia alot sizzle no steak. I was always amazed that anybody in the Kremlin would trust Nicolas Sarkozy. But trust him they did !! Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

    I would like to remind you Alexander III once said that Russia has just two allies, the armed forces and the navy.

  59. @AP
    My friend's realtor in Warsaw is a Ukrainian. There are even Ukrainian cops in Poland nowadays.

    Prague has Polish tour guides and cab drivers.

  60. @Belarusian Dude
    Noticed some unsettling moments of Ukrainian Westernization and occupation by globohomo recently in fields closer to home for me, which is solidifying my originally soft pro Russian stance very fast.

    I used to enjoy Ukrainian rapper "Yarmak", who did a sort of folksy play on rap, being a village hopnik and all that. He had a great song "Pidarasiya" about hating gays and beating the shit out of them.

    Now? He has a song dedicated to some Afro Ukrainian sportsball player and his struggles featuring him getting a pretty quasi Nordic looking Slav gf and beating all the raycis people. Not too long after, he posted a translation of some nogs making one of their unoriginal "reaction videos" in booting response and approval.
    On a plus side he released a song in Ukrainian language song about faith, which is very based... Until I scrolled down to find an unironic libtard message in a comment from him about something something all faiths equal and all that bullshit. I also now chronologically notice a lot of these things that can contextually be considered based are timed perfectly with some geopolitical relevance of their topic which further shows he sold out.
    Whereas Ukraine used to be the most respectable of the East Slavic countries what with the great homophobia, racism and other such stuff I predict it will become the worst of the three "Rus" countries within two decades. Very disappointing. I hope this doesn't mean I have to cuck to Yegor Pogrom tier Russian Nationalists once Putin croaks.

    White people who even entertain the idea that rap “music” is something of artistic merit are not at all “based” in my opinion. Enjoying and emulating Negro rap “music” is the first step on the road to glorifying Negroes.

    For some reason rap “music” seems to be extremely popular in Eastern Europe, significantly more so than it is with Western whites I would say. Black ghetto thug “culture” seems to appeal to a lot of Slavic men, they seem to see black ghetto thugs as the pinnacle of masculinity and toughness.

    • Replies: @Belarusian Dude
    Hopniks beat the shit out of niggers and faggots, people unironically writing "Europa" with their sabaton music and die wacht am rhein (10 hour bass boosted epic version!!) cuck and spend their days playing HoI4 instead of actually protecting their country.
    , @AP
    Well, this "rap" is not too bad:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7deW14Grd4s
  61. On why Russia should appeal the hokey WADA decision:

    https://tass.com/sport/1100149

    Other non-Russians have expressed similarly. WADA and World Athletics are heavily influenced by Anglo-Americans and other NATO member countries, who come across as pious, blowhard chauvinists. Not everyone is like them.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    So basically only Anglos do things by the book and expect adherence to standards and a sense of "fair play"? Russians and everyone else are inherently dishonest and corrupt and see things like adherence to rules and "fair play" as a weakness not a virtue?
  62. @Mikhail
    On why Russia should appeal the hokey WADA decision:

    https://tass.com/sport/1100149

    Other non-Russians have expressed similarly. WADA and World Athletics are heavily influenced by Anglo-Americans and other NATO member countries, who come across as pious, blowhard chauvinists. Not everyone is like them.

    So basically only Anglos do things by the book and expect adherence to standards and a sense of “fair play”? Russians and everyone else are inherently dishonest and corrupt and see things like adherence to rules and “fair play” as a weakness not a virtue?

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Jonathan Taylor, a lead WADA hack said that Russia shouldn't drag out the appeal process which could allow Russia to compete as Russia at the next Summer Olympics.

    He said that Russia would then be excluded in 2024.

    The pious bleep doesn't consider that his faulty advocacy might get overruled. For Russia, it'd be best to have such a lengthy appeal process. As time goes by, it stands to reason that there will be a growing momentum in Russia's favor.

    , @songbird
    If the rulebook allows trannies to compete, and leads to endlessly expanding cases of our Africans vs. yours, then I think it is natural to have contempt for it.

    Even if you take those things away, the Olympics are essentially mutant games. It is not practice that is being rewarded or even raw psychological talent, but often non-standard body dimensions.

    In this light, the idea of modifying people to be better athletes might actually be considered to be a noble endeavor. It might be seen to actually advance something - technology. If one was a transhumanist, it would be natural to cheer it.

    I don't really even consider myself one, but I can see the positive aspects of it. Hacking the body might lead to cures for diseases. And it might be absolutely necessary, if we are to colonize space.

  63. @Europe Europa
    So basically only Anglos do things by the book and expect adherence to standards and a sense of "fair play"? Russians and everyone else are inherently dishonest and corrupt and see things like adherence to rules and "fair play" as a weakness not a virtue?

    Jonathan Taylor, a lead WADA hack said that Russia shouldn’t drag out the appeal process which could allow Russia to compete as Russia at the next Summer Olympics.

    He said that Russia would then be excluded in 2024.

    The pious bleep doesn’t consider that his faulty advocacy might get overruled. For Russia, it’d be best to have such a lengthy appeal process. As time goes by, it stands to reason that there will be a growing momentum in Russia’s favor.

  64. @Mikhail
    The views of Keenan and de Gaulle had evolved into something less confrontatinal.

    Thatcher said some loony things in the 1990s about former Yugo.

    The views of Keenan and de Gaulle had evolved into something less confrontatinal.

    I agree with your statement. What I disagree with is the people who believe that the Individuals mentioned above, deep deep down in their hearts had nothing but love and goodwill towards Mother Russia. If the Russians simply caste away their bias and ignorance they would see it too. Judge these characters not by what they say but rather by how they have behaved towards Russia. Classic example of this is the sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships from France to Russia alot sizzle no steak. I was always amazed that anybody in the Kremlin would trust Nicolas Sarkozy. But trust him they did !! Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

    I would like to remind you Alexander III once said that Russia has just two allies, the armed forces and the navy.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    What I disagree with is the people who believe that the Individuals mentioned above, deep deep down in their hearts had nothing but love and goodwill towards Mother Russia.
     
    Kennan saw the Russian state as a geopolitical rival but there is no evidence he harbored any disdain towards the Russian people.

    I think you misunderstood the original article on Kennan's diaries on Amren. It contrasted his and many Russian contemporaries' racialist views with Thatcher's univeralism. Whereas we were often taught the FSU was an "evil empire", it was led by a man who at that time had a clear racial understanding (or perhaps more cynically, pretended to have it in a desperate ploy to gain some leeway).

    Whatever one's views on Brezhnev, he was at least willing to pay lip service to the idea of European solidarity whereas even the mere thought of it made Thatcher storm out of the room. And this was 1979, not 2019. It shows you how deep the rot was, even back then.

    Fuck, I am becoming Beckow :(

  65. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Gosh, there's just nothing more insufferable and bitterly sardonic than when members of the English establishment lecture others on success in "human terms." Except for the possible desire to deceive nominally Christian subjects, and soothe their own consciences, I cannot comprehend why the English elites traditionally insisted on cloaking selfishness and power with high-falutin' moral indignation. Sadly, they passed this on to their American relatives, so that debacles like the Waco massacre of 1993 are given the shiny pretense of "protecting children" or similar nonsense.

    Take the Irish famine, for one of a hundred or two examples.

    I am really not much of a radical on that subject. I think much of the death toll was, if not "accidental," certainly not "intentional" either. I'm not a proponent of the traditional Irish nationalist position - most passionately espoused by John Mitchel - but, still, even a cursory reading of English newspapers from the 1840s and '50s will reveal their outright happiness at the emptying of Ireland (Now it's free for the magic balm of CAPITAL! Thank God!), and their total lack of concern for gigantic and appalling human suffering.

    …Irish famine: much of the death toll was, if not “accidental,” certainly not “intentional” either.

    Motifs are never possible to ascertain. That is true for individuals and nations. How would we know? By asking? Or looking at results and assuming that they were intended? Or, the latest fad in the West, simply assigning motifs based on who you are? (That’s actually a rediscovered ancient tribal custom.) None of it works, motivations are a mystery better left to the divine.

    Dzingischan, Attila, Ceasar, Charlemagne and similar historical mass murderers were proud of their motivations. But that is rare these days. “Cloaking selfishness and power with high-falutin’ moral indignation” is the norm, maybe it has something to do with the ever-metastizing Christian ideas, or possibly with enlightenment. Or women.

    Anglos bombed Germany into a fire-ball because they could. I am sure many among them also enjoyed it. As many Anglos in the 19th century enjoyed ‘emptying of Ireland‘ and today would enjoy ‘emptying of the vast Eurasian space‘, while simultaneously crying about how much they ‘respect’ or ‘admire’ the people or culture there. They do it because they can, and because it is good for them materially. They get very angry when realities on the ground keep them from doing it – that’s when ‘moral indignation‘ really kicks into high gear. We live through one of those times.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Motifs are never possible to ascertain.
     
    Motives. Motifs are not at all impossible to ascertain.
    , @reiner Tor

    Motifs are never possible to ascertain.
     
    Technically speaking, this might be true, but often we can still prove intentions with a very high probability. We know that Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews as late as October 1941, because his policy was still facilitating their emigration from Europe. Certainly, if you want to kill someone, you are not going to compel him to move somewhere where you cannot kill him.

    Regarding the Irish, the British government did provide some relief to the starving people, but the response was slow and inadequate. We also have access to private papers like letters and journals, and there’s simply no evidence of any intent. It’s highly unlikely that there would be no evidence of it if they really had intent. It’s not so easy to simulate.

    Just as I’m sure that you really are a Slovak from Western Slovakia: theoretically, you could be a South Korean teenage girl whose hobby is to impersonate Slovak men online, but it’s just unlikely. You might distort some information, but not something like this.
  66. @Mr. Hack
    Belarusian Dude:

    I'm a "troll" because I'm requesting that you explain yourself? How dumb is that?

    Because you clearly didn’t read my post, I never questioned the ability of some paid for thots to go out on a march I discussed the power of television and other media influencing people. Besides, when Dumenka talks about tolerating gays and has talks with globohomo papists to own the moskals epic style your already off-topic point is even more nonsensical.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    You're possibly correct, that I did misread you. I probably inferred that you were addressing the bulk of Dmitry's comment (how silly of me?). Anyway, to make sure that I don't possibly misinterpret another one of your comments (or ideas), please explain to me in greater detail what you mean when you state:

    when Dumenka talks about tolerating gays and has talks with globohomo papists to own the moskals epic style
     
    Firstly, I don't know who "Dumenka" is and secondly I don't have a clue as to what you mean when you go on about some sort of conspiracy theory involving "globohomo papists" and the "epic style of moskals", but it does sound interesting, nevertheless. :-)
  67. @Europe Europa
    White people who even entertain the idea that rap "music" is something of artistic merit are not at all "based" in my opinion. Enjoying and emulating Negro rap "music" is the first step on the road to glorifying Negroes.

    For some reason rap "music" seems to be extremely popular in Eastern Europe, significantly more so than it is with Western whites I would say. Black ghetto thug "culture" seems to appeal to a lot of Slavic men, they seem to see black ghetto thugs as the pinnacle of masculinity and toughness.

    Hopniks beat the shit out of niggers and faggots, people unironically writing “Europa” with their sabaton music and die wacht am rhein (10 hour bass boosted epic version!!) cuck and spend their days playing HoI4 instead of actually protecting their country.

  68. @AltSerrice
    I was sent that this morning by multiple people, my view on it as follows:

    'There’s certainly an element of accuracy in that assessment. The people on the West coast have an almost identical genetic identity to the 5000 year old bog bodies we dig up. And they do tend to be a bit darker of skin, hair, and eyes than the rest of the country. (Though obviously not even Mediterranean dark since it is Ireland we're talking about).

    Really it goes back to the arrivals of the different groups that settled Ireland according to our ancient chronicles. The most important of which being the Fir Bolg, the Tuatha de Danann, and the Milesians. The degree to which it is myth or history is contentious, but the arrivals identified in the Book of Invasions correspond suspiciously with the infusion of new genes into Ireland as identified from sequencing ancient corpses.

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others. The Milesians on the other hand are more closely related to Spanish Celts in Galicia and were the later arrivals, settling the South and West coasts. The Fir Bolg and other smaller groups are harder to identify as they have been diffused and assimilated over many millennia.'

    It is because of high quality comments like these why I mainly like the Open Threads the most on this site. Thanks.

    • Agree: AltSerrice
  69. @(((They))) Live
    I'm Irish, I don't notice any big regional variations between Irish people, for example my father is from the west coast, Kerry to be exact, he and all my Kerry cousins have blonde hair and blue eyes, very few people in that region look anything other than Northern European

    As am I. I’m not saying there is a radical difference, or that there is a strict boundary in terms of appearance – obviously all groups have mixed greatly over the many thousands of years we’ve been on this island.

    However, I certainly do notice than some regions of the country seem to produce stockier and more sallow people as a greater portion of the population than other regions. And yes they do still look Northern European – but compare differences even among Northern Europeans; Danes are shorter and more tanned than Norwegians. In fact our own historical accounts of the Vikings referred to the Danes as ‘dark foreigners’ and the Swedes/Norwegians as the ‘pale foreigners.’

  70. @Europe Europa
    So basically only Anglos do things by the book and expect adherence to standards and a sense of "fair play"? Russians and everyone else are inherently dishonest and corrupt and see things like adherence to rules and "fair play" as a weakness not a virtue?

    If the rulebook allows trannies to compete, and leads to endlessly expanding cases of our Africans vs. yours, then I think it is natural to have contempt for it.

    Even if you take those things away, the Olympics are essentially mutant games. It is not practice that is being rewarded or even raw psychological talent, but often non-standard body dimensions.

    In this light, the idea of modifying people to be better athletes might actually be considered to be a noble endeavor. It might be seen to actually advance something – technology. If one was a transhumanist, it would be natural to cheer it.

    I don’t really even consider myself one, but I can see the positive aspects of it. Hacking the body might lead to cures for diseases. And it might be absolutely necessary, if we are to colonize space.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    In this light, the idea of modifying people to be better athletes might actually be considered to be a noble endeavor. It might be seen to actually advance something – technology. If one was a transhumanist, it would be natural to cheer it.
     
    https://i.imgur.com/esZDPzE.jpg

    One of these guys is a murderer(Oscar Pistorius), but putting that fact aside, you can already see this being advanced in the paralympics. I wouldn't be surprised if we got to a place where people with "disabilities" were running faster than normal people because technology advanced so quickly.

    This is perhaps even more tantalising in mental sports like chess where neurological technologies have huge scope for improvements, past even human peak levels.

    And it might be absolutely necessary, if we are to colonize space.
     
    I was at the Nobel lectures the other week, and this year's physics winners were basically ruling out human space colonisation completely. To get to the closest planet with similar conditions like ours would take several millions of years according to them and as such it would mostly be a waste of time. Then there's the more philosophical view that if Nicklas Boström is correct about his artificial reality hypothesis, then it would make sense to invest into life-like VR and just explore the universe that way because what we see around us isn't "real" anyway.
  71. @Blinky Bill

    The views of Keenan and de Gaulle had evolved into something less confrontatinal.
     
    I agree with your statement. What I disagree with is the people who believe that the Individuals mentioned above, deep deep down in their hearts had nothing but love and goodwill towards Mother Russia. If the Russians simply caste away their bias and ignorance they would see it too. Judge these characters not by what they say but rather by how they have behaved towards Russia. Classic example of this is the sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships from France to Russia alot sizzle no steak. I was always amazed that anybody in the Kremlin would trust Nicolas Sarkozy. But trust him they did !! Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

    I would like to remind you Alexander III once said that Russia has just two allies, the armed forces and the navy.

    What I disagree with is the people who believe that the Individuals mentioned above, deep deep down in their hearts had nothing but love and goodwill towards Mother Russia.

    Kennan saw the Russian state as a geopolitical rival but there is no evidence he harbored any disdain towards the Russian people.

    I think you misunderstood the original article on Kennan’s diaries on Amren. It contrasted his and many Russian contemporaries’ racialist views with Thatcher’s univeralism. Whereas we were often taught the FSU was an “evil empire”, it was led by a man who at that time had a clear racial understanding (or perhaps more cynically, pretended to have it in a desperate ploy to gain some leeway).

    Whatever one’s views on Brezhnev, he was at least willing to pay lip service to the idea of European solidarity whereas even the mere thought of it made Thatcher storm out of the room. And this was 1979, not 2019. It shows you how deep the rot was, even back then.

    Fuck, I am becoming Beckow 🙁

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • LOL: AltSerrice
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill

    (or perhaps more cynically, pretended to have it in a desperate ploy to gain some leeway).Whatever one’s views on Brezhnev, he was at least willing to pay lip service to the idea of European solidarity
     
    This point I most definitely agree with.

    whereas even the mere thought of it made Thatcher storm out of the room.
     
    I think you and many others misunderstand why Thatcher behaved as she did. Here is a hint.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-22089460/margaret-thatcher-racist-australian-minister-bob-carr

    https://cloudinary.cagle.com/image/upload/w_600/cartoons/111033.png
  72. @Belarusian Dude
    Because you clearly didn't read my post, I never questioned the ability of some paid for thots to go out on a march I discussed the power of television and other media influencing people. Besides, when Dumenka talks about tolerating gays and has talks with globohomo papists to own the moskals epic style your already off-topic point is even more nonsensical.

    You’re possibly correct, that I did misread you. I probably inferred that you were addressing the bulk of Dmitry’s comment (how silly of me?). Anyway, to make sure that I don’t possibly misinterpret another one of your comments (or ideas), please explain to me in greater detail what you mean when you state:

    when Dumenka talks about tolerating gays and has talks with globohomo papists to own the moskals epic style

    Firstly, I don’t know who “Dumenka” is and secondly I don’t have a clue as to what you mean when you go on about some sort of conspiracy theory involving “globohomo papists” and the “epic style of moskals”, but it does sound interesting, nevertheless. 🙂

  73. @songbird
    If the rulebook allows trannies to compete, and leads to endlessly expanding cases of our Africans vs. yours, then I think it is natural to have contempt for it.

    Even if you take those things away, the Olympics are essentially mutant games. It is not practice that is being rewarded or even raw psychological talent, but often non-standard body dimensions.

    In this light, the idea of modifying people to be better athletes might actually be considered to be a noble endeavor. It might be seen to actually advance something - technology. If one was a transhumanist, it would be natural to cheer it.

    I don't really even consider myself one, but I can see the positive aspects of it. Hacking the body might lead to cures for diseases. And it might be absolutely necessary, if we are to colonize space.

    In this light, the idea of modifying people to be better athletes might actually be considered to be a noble endeavor. It might be seen to actually advance something – technology. If one was a transhumanist, it would be natural to cheer it.

    One of these guys is a murderer(Oscar Pistorius), but putting that fact aside, you can already see this being advanced in the paralympics. I wouldn’t be surprised if we got to a place where people with “disabilities” were running faster than normal people because technology advanced so quickly.

    This is perhaps even more tantalising in mental sports like chess where neurological technologies have huge scope for improvements, past even human peak levels.

    And it might be absolutely necessary, if we are to colonize space.

    I was at the Nobel lectures the other week, and this year’s physics winners were basically ruling out human space colonisation completely. To get to the closest planet with similar conditions like ours would take several millions of years according to them and as such it would mostly be a waste of time. Then there’s the more philosophical view that if Nicklas Boström is correct about his artificial reality hypothesis, then it would make sense to invest into life-like VR and just explore the universe that way because what we see around us isn’t “real” anyway.

    • Replies: @songbird
    Putting aside the idea of societal decay - if we take as our standard the level of human capital that existed at the beginning of the space race - I think it would be possible and worthwhile to colonize Mars.

    Of course, this would be a very difficult endeavor, and it is entirely dependent on one completely untested factor: whether Martian gravity is sufficient for healthful human development. It might not be. Of course, there might be ways around it - gene mod or else centripetal trains to add the necessary component of gravity, only for pregnant women and people under 18 or so. But, I think if either of those things are necessary, it becomes more pie in the sky.

    There is also the possibility of building space habitats that spin to 1 G, but I consider that much more difficult.

    Some might find my vision of Mars depressing. No terraforming, just underground spaces - though some would be quite large, and there would be a public-spirited focus on gardens, parks, art, and recreation. Conservatively, I think several hundred million people could live on Mars. And they would be high IQ, so this might change what is possible for humans, regarding extra-solar colonization.

    Even if generation ships are impossible, there's still an old idea - spread the genes, by sending embryos and robots to look after them.
    , @AP

    I was at the Nobel lectures the other week, and this year’s physics winners were basically ruling out human space colonisation completely. To get to the closest planet with similar conditions like ours would take several millions of years according to them and as such it would mostly be a waste of time.
     
    Terraforming Mars OTOH so it sustains Earth life outdoors might not take longer than few 100,000s years which is a blip of time (sustainable colonies could be placed there much sooner of course, easily within our lifetimes).
    , @Mitleser
    Why should we focus on other planets?

    https://twitter.com/mr_scientism/status/1126966828461379584
  74. @reiner Tor
    Is PP a vegetarian?

    I liked PP. I wish he would come back, but I will quibble with him on two points:

    1.) he once used the word “Eurocentric.” A truly awful word. His use of it was non-political. And, perhaps, it has a certain value in the context he was using it, but I really hate the word.

    2.) I think he gave too much credence to political “scientists.” Perhaps, this is just my American bias, but most political “scientists” in the US seem like worthless, partisan hacks.

  75. Anatoly,

    I’m glad you’re in Poland!

    Poland is riding high right now:

    1. Economy grew 5.1% last year

    2. Nobel Prize in Literature (Tokarczuk)

    3. Poland won the Junior Eurovision song contest two years
    in a row. Viki Gabor, this year’s winner, is only 12, and already has incredible
    control over her voice. What I find amazing is that most of those Polish
    contestants speak English with no accent. Mass emigration to Britain is paying
    off although many Polonians also have tons of relatives in the U.S.

    4. Poland has outperformed just about everybody in Europe on the 2018
    PISA exams, incl Germany, France, U.K., and fellow Visegrad members.
    Counting only cities over 1 million Poland placed No.1 in the world.

    Welcome to Poland!

  76. @Thulean Friend

    In this light, the idea of modifying people to be better athletes might actually be considered to be a noble endeavor. It might be seen to actually advance something – technology. If one was a transhumanist, it would be natural to cheer it.
     
    https://i.imgur.com/esZDPzE.jpg

    One of these guys is a murderer(Oscar Pistorius), but putting that fact aside, you can already see this being advanced in the paralympics. I wouldn't be surprised if we got to a place where people with "disabilities" were running faster than normal people because technology advanced so quickly.

    This is perhaps even more tantalising in mental sports like chess where neurological technologies have huge scope for improvements, past even human peak levels.

    And it might be absolutely necessary, if we are to colonize space.
     
    I was at the Nobel lectures the other week, and this year's physics winners were basically ruling out human space colonisation completely. To get to the closest planet with similar conditions like ours would take several millions of years according to them and as such it would mostly be a waste of time. Then there's the more philosophical view that if Nicklas Boström is correct about his artificial reality hypothesis, then it would make sense to invest into life-like VR and just explore the universe that way because what we see around us isn't "real" anyway.

    Putting aside the idea of societal decay – if we take as our standard the level of human capital that existed at the beginning of the space race – I think it would be possible and worthwhile to colonize Mars.

    Of course, this would be a very difficult endeavor, and it is entirely dependent on one completely untested factor: whether Martian gravity is sufficient for healthful human development. It might not be. Of course, there might be ways around it – gene mod or else centripetal trains to add the necessary component of gravity, only for pregnant women and people under 18 or so. But, I think if either of those things are necessary, it becomes more pie in the sky.

    There is also the possibility of building space habitats that spin to 1 G, but I consider that much more difficult.

    Some might find my vision of Mars depressing. No terraforming, just underground spaces – though some would be quite large, and there would be a public-spirited focus on gardens, parks, art, and recreation. Conservatively, I think several hundred million people could live on Mars. And they would be high IQ, so this might change what is possible for humans, regarding extra-solar colonization.

    Even if generation ships are impossible, there’s still an old idea – spread the genes, by sending embryos and robots to look after them.

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    Gravity is a big issue, everything I have seen about this is that humans are long term very inadaptable to changes in gravity. Mars is too small and doesn't have enough mass.

    The other problems with Mars are, obviously, the lack of an atmosphere, and the lack of a magnetosphere which, besides being necessary to keep any atmosphere it had, is also necessary to protect the planet from deadly solar and space radiation.

    Mars lacks a magnetosphere because it's core is not molten, it's too cooled off.

    All 3 of these problems could be fixed by the same method. Start flinging asteroids (including ice asteroids) into Mars. Besides increasing it's mass until it is closer to earth's mass, the multitude of thermo-nuclear like asteroid impacts would basically make the whole planet molten. It will have earth like gravity, earth like magnetosphere and an earth like atmosphere. Then all we have to do is wait for the surface to cool down to habitable levels, maybe a few thousand or hundred of thousands of years.

    But the best time to plant a tree was 15 years ago, and the 2nd best time is today.

    In the mean time we get a pretty cool new star. And we get to fling asteroids at Mars.
    , @Thulean Friend

    Even if generation ships are impossible, there’s still an old idea – spread the genes, by sending embryos and robots to look after them.
     
    Alternatively, store them on earth in a safe containment. Norwegians are already seeding many plants in Svalbard. There's a cool mini-documentary about it here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_OEsf-1qgY

    Of course, this would be a very difficult endeavor, and it is entirely dependent on one completely untested factor: whether Martian gravity is sufficient for healthful human development. It might not be.
     
    As Lars has already indicated, it probably is not, though I would never rule out human ingenuity to fix what may seem to be an insurmountable problem. I think Mars is more likely to be a big mining colony with plenty of space to do crazy and fun experiments, like gigantic hyperloop race-tracks and cool stuff like that.

    For the record, I don't buy the theory that planet Earth is "unique". Even a very cursory look at amount of planets in the universe would disabuse anyone of that illusion. The question is how long the distances are to the nearest one and the technology we have, and that's the depressing part, hence these Nobel winners' skepticism. OTOH, one should not be blinded by medals and awards. Even very smart people can be wrong - and frequently are.

    Yuri Milner, one of the earliest investors in Facebook, has backed a fascinating project aiming to tackle this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_Starshot

    I personally think we'd need to travel through black holes to make any serious interstellar travel feasible, so substantially faster than even Milner's initiative.
    , @anonymous coward
    Fake news. The athmosphere of Venus is a thousand times more hospitable and accessible to man than Mars.

    The facts that we're talking about colonizing Mars instead of Venus means the whole 'colonization' thing is a charade to dupe dumb plebs into spending time on bullshit, the elites obviously have no plan to colonize anything whatsoever.
  77. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Germany was banned from those Olympic games in the 1920s because the British and French were trying to punish them for supposedly starting the First World War.

    This is one of many examples of the Orwellian nature of Franco-British elites. As an American, in a sense of pure self-interest, I could care less who started World War One: We, the Americans, had nothing to gain from involvement in that war. One of my ancestral relatives, a farmhand, died in France in 1918, and for what? But the Allies had their own agendas.

    By World War Two, they had wised up a bit. They waged a comprehensive total war against the Germans; hideous fire-bombing of harmless large cities, like Darmstadt and Dresden, were combined with small bombings of innocuous rural villages (for example: the tiny but historic Bavarian town of Ellingen was bombed by the USAAF despite having absolutely no military importance whatever) specifically to terrorize the German people and kill as many of them as possible. In the aftermath, the occupation governments simply did what the Allies had tried to do after World War 1: create a nation of self-loathing Germans. But the Allies were smarter this time; they did allow the new German state the outlet of sports. So Germany was never banned from any athletic competitions.

    None of is this conditional on a defense of the Nazi German leadership, of course. One does not have to defend Hitler to realize that the goal of the Allies - particularly the British - was to kill as many Germans as possible, destroy as much of their (pre-Nazi!) culture as possible (they even burned much the works of Richard Strauss, although apparently by accident), and permanently reduce the heart and soul of the German nation.

    There is simply no better way to interpret the co-existence of massive anti-civilian bombing with a sophisticated post-war "re-education" effort. The goal was not just to defeat Nazi Germany, but to subjugate Germany, period. This sort of thing is not unique; human history is obviously full of wars of conquest. What makes World War Two unique is the massive scale and sophistication combined with the "Christian crusade" pretense, an example of which would be how the British and Americans often sought to deceive their pilots and their populations that bombing refugees was necessary to end the war. Absurd! As Orwell said, such deceit is necessary to convince "highly civilized men" to fire-bomb whole cities.

    This is all important for us to learn, though, because it is very similar to the globalist plan for our western countries. They have simply relied less on the heavy steel bludgeon of war and more on the captivating trap of profitable materialism.

    I suppose with the ’48 games, they were really the ’44 games delayed. So, I guess the ban of German/Japan might have a certain logic.

    But, it becomes kind of bizarre, if you consider that German forced labor was used to help build the facilities, and that Germany and Japan were brought to their knees and occupied. And also, that the Olympics are ostensibly about promoting peace and good relations between nations.

    I am not really a fan of these political machinations, including boycotts. Though, IMO, the biggest insult is when the athletes are allowed to compete without the flag. I have to also say that I don’t like how countries march separately at the opening, and then mixed at the close. Today, when so many masks have dropped, it seems like a globalist ritual about symbolically dissolving nations.

  78. @Thulean Friend
    DB treated her shabbily for exposing their poor service.

    But wait, there’s a twist!

    A German railway company has taken back an apology they made to Greta Thunberg after they realized the climate activist wasn’t schlepping it on the train’s floor but instead was treated “friendly” in first class.

    The rail company was responding to an image Thunberg tweeted of herself sitting amid bags and suitcases on the floor of what she called “overcrowded trains through Germany.”

    But upon reflection, Deutsche Bahn said Thunberg’s “overcrowded” claims were just hot air.

    The rail company claimed the teenager had a seat in first class between Kassel and Hamburg and that other members of her team were already sitting in first class from Frankfurt onwards.

    “It would have been even nicer if you had also reported how friendly and competently our team served you at your seat in first class,” the company added.

    Thunberg then claimed that jam-packed trains were actually great and having to sit on the floor wasn’t an issue.

    “…this is no problem of course and I never said it was,” she tweeted. “Overcrowded trains is a great sign because it means the demand for train travel is high!”

    https://nypost.com/2019/12/15/german-railway-claims-greta-thunberg-lied-about-taking-first-class/

    • LOL: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    Wait until you see her car ;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8SyoRwV_To

    To be fair to her, DB is only partially correct here. She was booked in first class and was seated, but only after Göttingen. Before Göttingen, she was indeed on the floor, something DB tried to obfuscate by shifting the blame.

    HOW DARE YOU, DB?

    https://i.imgur.com/ZfFwFnB.jpg
  79. @songbird
    Putting aside the idea of societal decay - if we take as our standard the level of human capital that existed at the beginning of the space race - I think it would be possible and worthwhile to colonize Mars.

    Of course, this would be a very difficult endeavor, and it is entirely dependent on one completely untested factor: whether Martian gravity is sufficient for healthful human development. It might not be. Of course, there might be ways around it - gene mod or else centripetal trains to add the necessary component of gravity, only for pregnant women and people under 18 or so. But, I think if either of those things are necessary, it becomes more pie in the sky.

    There is also the possibility of building space habitats that spin to 1 G, but I consider that much more difficult.

    Some might find my vision of Mars depressing. No terraforming, just underground spaces - though some would be quite large, and there would be a public-spirited focus on gardens, parks, art, and recreation. Conservatively, I think several hundred million people could live on Mars. And they would be high IQ, so this might change what is possible for humans, regarding extra-solar colonization.

    Even if generation ships are impossible, there's still an old idea - spread the genes, by sending embryos and robots to look after them.

    Gravity is a big issue, everything I have seen about this is that humans are long term very inadaptable to changes in gravity. Mars is too small and doesn’t have enough mass.

    The other problems with Mars are, obviously, the lack of an atmosphere, and the lack of a magnetosphere which, besides being necessary to keep any atmosphere it had, is also necessary to protect the planet from deadly solar and space radiation.

    Mars lacks a magnetosphere because it’s core is not molten, it’s too cooled off.

    All 3 of these problems could be fixed by the same method. Start flinging asteroids (including ice asteroids) into Mars. Besides increasing it’s mass until it is closer to earth’s mass, the multitude of thermo-nuclear like asteroid impacts would basically make the whole planet molten. It will have earth like gravity, earth like magnetosphere and an earth like atmosphere. Then all we have to do is wait for the surface to cool down to habitable levels, maybe a few thousand or hundred of thousands of years.

    But the best time to plant a tree was 15 years ago, and the 2nd best time is today.

    In the mean time we get a pretty cool new star. And we get to fling asteroids at Mars.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
  80. @Nodwink
    Ukraine is a hell-hole. Truly one of the most cursed nations. Nuke it.

    “Nodwink’s” idea of a hellhole:

    Not diverse enough?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Speaking of diversity, there really are a lot of subcons in Poland. Or in Warsaw and Kraków, at any rate.

    I notice even the small grocery shops stock things like Jalfrezi Chicken in the ready meals section.
  81. @Pericles
    But wait, there's a twist!


    A German railway company has taken back an apology they made to Greta Thunberg after they realized the climate activist wasn’t schlepping it on the train’s floor but instead was treated “friendly” in first class.

    The rail company was responding to an image Thunberg tweeted of herself sitting amid bags and suitcases on the floor of what she called “overcrowded trains through Germany.”
    ...
    But upon reflection, Deutsche Bahn said Thunberg’s “overcrowded” claims were just hot air.

    The rail company claimed the teenager had a seat in first class between Kassel and Hamburg and that other members of her team were already sitting in first class from Frankfurt onwards.

    “It would have been even nicer if you had also reported how friendly and competently our team served you at your seat in first class,” the company added.

    Thunberg then claimed that jam-packed trains were actually great and having to sit on the floor wasn’t an issue.

    “…this is no problem of course and I never said it was,” she tweeted. “Overcrowded trains is a great sign because it means the demand for train travel is high!”

     

    https://nypost.com/2019/12/15/german-railway-claims-greta-thunberg-lied-about-taking-first-class/

    Wait until you see her car 😉

    To be fair to her, DB is only partially correct here. She was booked in first class and was seated, but only after Göttingen. Before Göttingen, she was indeed on the floor, something DB tried to obfuscate by shifting the blame.

    HOW DARE YOU, DB?

  82. @AltSerrice
    I was sent that this morning by multiple people, my view on it as follows:

    'There’s certainly an element of accuracy in that assessment. The people on the West coast have an almost identical genetic identity to the 5000 year old bog bodies we dig up. And they do tend to be a bit darker of skin, hair, and eyes than the rest of the country. (Though obviously not even Mediterranean dark since it is Ireland we're talking about).

    Really it goes back to the arrivals of the different groups that settled Ireland according to our ancient chronicles. The most important of which being the Fir Bolg, the Tuatha de Danann, and the Milesians. The degree to which it is myth or history is contentious, but the arrivals identified in the Book of Invasions correspond suspiciously with the infusion of new genes into Ireland as identified from sequencing ancient corpses.

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others. The Milesians on the other hand are more closely related to Spanish Celts in Galicia and were the later arrivals, settling the South and West coasts. The Fir Bolg and other smaller groups are harder to identify as they have been diffused and assimilated over many millennia.'

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others.

    Which regions of Ireland do their descendants live?

    Interesting stuff, I concur with Thulean friend that one comes across neat info in the open thread comments.

    • Replies: @AltSerrice
    As I mentioned above in another comment, there's no distinct boundaries, and you'll find all types everywhere. The Tuatha are thought to have arrived, probably from the Eastern Pontic Steppe (we wuz Aryans), around 4000 or so years ago at the start of the Bronze Age. They fought bloody wars to subdue the older possibly north-Iberian and neolithic near-Eastern descended peoples and settled all over the country as a new class of local rulers. They probably account for a majority of the modern Irish genetic identity, and are diffuse across the country but obviously weaker along West and Southern coasts. Probably strongest on the East Coast and the non-Anglo North of the country. Of course there's also other groups to consider like the later Norman and Viking infusions.

    Their name Tuatha De Danann roughly translates into God-Clan and they are attributed supernatural powers, immortality, and supremacy in mythology. The Tuatha largely make up the ancient Gaelic polytheistic pantheon.

    On a sidenote, I'm convinced the names of Irish High Kings in our semi-mythic history inspired Tolkien's Elvish and Numenorean names: Ethriel, Erimon, Muinemon, Eber Finn, Giallchad, Dui Finn, Cimbaeth, Adamir, Caelbad.
    , @songbird
    According to tradition, modern-day Irish are Milesians - descendants of the sons of Miles, who was a king in Spain (though not a Spanish king.) There is some tradition about where different landings were made, and even a related tradition of which families are descended from which sons of Miles. And I believe there are pedigrees connecting to them, off the top of my head, I will say back around about 1000 BC (and before).

    The Milesians defeated the Tuatha Dé Danann. IIRC, there are three poetic names of Ireland which come from three queens of the Tuatha, who when meeting the Milesians, each promised that they would have good luck, if they named the land after them. But the Tuatha, magical beings, were supposedly banished underground to become fairies, living under old hill forts.

    There are lots of stories about the Tuatha, after they were banished underground. One of these, who is still associated with a hill today, Aillen the Burner, would lull the men of Tara to sleep with his music before burning the palace to the ground, every Samhain before he was defeated by Finn McCool, who managed to stay awake by breathing-in the fumes of poison on his spear-tip.

    The whole mythic cycle of invasion is interesting on some levels, but I dislike the biblical parallels. If you ask me, it shows too much influence of Christianity: the Irish were supposedly in Egypt at one point, and these pedigrees eventually hit biblical figures. This is probably also true to a lesser extent of Ireland's other surviving myths - the actual pagan gods seem close to erased.
  83. @songbird
    Putting aside the idea of societal decay - if we take as our standard the level of human capital that existed at the beginning of the space race - I think it would be possible and worthwhile to colonize Mars.

    Of course, this would be a very difficult endeavor, and it is entirely dependent on one completely untested factor: whether Martian gravity is sufficient for healthful human development. It might not be. Of course, there might be ways around it - gene mod or else centripetal trains to add the necessary component of gravity, only for pregnant women and people under 18 or so. But, I think if either of those things are necessary, it becomes more pie in the sky.

    There is also the possibility of building space habitats that spin to 1 G, but I consider that much more difficult.

    Some might find my vision of Mars depressing. No terraforming, just underground spaces - though some would be quite large, and there would be a public-spirited focus on gardens, parks, art, and recreation. Conservatively, I think several hundred million people could live on Mars. And they would be high IQ, so this might change what is possible for humans, regarding extra-solar colonization.

    Even if generation ships are impossible, there's still an old idea - spread the genes, by sending embryos and robots to look after them.

    Even if generation ships are impossible, there’s still an old idea – spread the genes, by sending embryos and robots to look after them.

    Alternatively, store them on earth in a safe containment. Norwegians are already seeding many plants in Svalbard. There’s a cool mini-documentary about it here:

    Of course, this would be a very difficult endeavor, and it is entirely dependent on one completely untested factor: whether Martian gravity is sufficient for healthful human development. It might not be.

    As Lars has already indicated, it probably is not, though I would never rule out human ingenuity to fix what may seem to be an insurmountable problem. I think Mars is more likely to be a big mining colony with plenty of space to do crazy and fun experiments, like gigantic hyperloop race-tracks and cool stuff like that.

    For the record, I don’t buy the theory that planet Earth is “unique”. Even a very cursory look at amount of planets in the universe would disabuse anyone of that illusion. The question is how long the distances are to the nearest one and the technology we have, and that’s the depressing part, hence these Nobel winners’ skepticism. OTOH, one should not be blinded by medals and awards. Even very smart people can be wrong – and frequently are.

    Yuri Milner, one of the earliest investors in Facebook, has backed a fascinating project aiming to tackle this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_Starshot

    I personally think we’d need to travel through black holes to make any serious interstellar travel feasible, so substantially faster than even Milner’s initiative.

    • Replies: @songbird
    When I speak of sufficient gravity, I am really talking about human anatomy and physiology. And, of course, plant biology.

    When it comes to orbit, we know micro gravity is not enough for humans. At a bare minimum there is muscle and bone loss - if you extrapolate the trend lines, this would be fatal. Perhaps there are ways to address these problems - I think bone loss is approachable - but then you get to the problem of plumbing.

    Potentially, Martian gravity would be enough to solve these problems, or make them solvable with slight tweaks - drugs or gene editing. But is it enough for normal cellular communication and development? For sperm to fertilize egg, for stem cells to differentiate and organize properly into different tissues and organs? For healthy babies to be born? For normal adolescence? For normal development of the brain?

    A magnetosphere is actually unnecessary, unless you are terraforming, or want to walk the surface. A few inches of dirt are sufficient to block harmful radiation. An atmosphere is likewise unnecessary, as you can pressurize underground spaces, with a certain a mount of gravity, a leak isn't catastrophic. Food would be grown underground, in my view.

    I know giving up the sky doesn't sound pleasant, but I think of cathedral-like spaces, art museums, botanical gardens, zoos. Bicycle paths that are kilometers long. Skating rinks and indoor ski slopes - though I don't know if these would work. Best of all, I think of hundreds of millions of Europeans free from the menace of rubber dinghies.
  84. @Thulean Friend

    In this light, the idea of modifying people to be better athletes might actually be considered to be a noble endeavor. It might be seen to actually advance something – technology. If one was a transhumanist, it would be natural to cheer it.
     
    https://i.imgur.com/esZDPzE.jpg

    One of these guys is a murderer(Oscar Pistorius), but putting that fact aside, you can already see this being advanced in the paralympics. I wouldn't be surprised if we got to a place where people with "disabilities" were running faster than normal people because technology advanced so quickly.

    This is perhaps even more tantalising in mental sports like chess where neurological technologies have huge scope for improvements, past even human peak levels.

    And it might be absolutely necessary, if we are to colonize space.
     
    I was at the Nobel lectures the other week, and this year's physics winners were basically ruling out human space colonisation completely. To get to the closest planet with similar conditions like ours would take several millions of years according to them and as such it would mostly be a waste of time. Then there's the more philosophical view that if Nicklas Boström is correct about his artificial reality hypothesis, then it would make sense to invest into life-like VR and just explore the universe that way because what we see around us isn't "real" anyway.

    I was at the Nobel lectures the other week, and this year’s physics winners were basically ruling out human space colonisation completely. To get to the closest planet with similar conditions like ours would take several millions of years according to them and as such it would mostly be a waste of time.

    Terraforming Mars OTOH so it sustains Earth life outdoors might not take longer than few 100,000s years which is a blip of time (sustainable colonies could be placed there much sooner of course, easily within our lifetimes).

  85. @Thulean Friend

    What I disagree with is the people who believe that the Individuals mentioned above, deep deep down in their hearts had nothing but love and goodwill towards Mother Russia.
     
    Kennan saw the Russian state as a geopolitical rival but there is no evidence he harbored any disdain towards the Russian people.

    I think you misunderstood the original article on Kennan's diaries on Amren. It contrasted his and many Russian contemporaries' racialist views with Thatcher's univeralism. Whereas we were often taught the FSU was an "evil empire", it was led by a man who at that time had a clear racial understanding (or perhaps more cynically, pretended to have it in a desperate ploy to gain some leeway).

    Whatever one's views on Brezhnev, he was at least willing to pay lip service to the idea of European solidarity whereas even the mere thought of it made Thatcher storm out of the room. And this was 1979, not 2019. It shows you how deep the rot was, even back then.

    Fuck, I am becoming Beckow :(

    (or perhaps more cynically, pretended to have it in a desperate ploy to gain some leeway).Whatever one’s views on Brezhnev, he was at least willing to pay lip service to the idea of European solidarity

    This point I most definitely agree with.

    whereas even the mere thought of it made Thatcher storm out of the room.

    I think you and many others misunderstand why Thatcher behaved as she did. Here is a hint.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-22089460/margaret-thatcher-racist-australian-minister-bob-carr

  86. @AP

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others.
     
    Which regions of Ireland do their descendants live?

    Interesting stuff, I concur with Thulean friend that one comes across neat info in the open thread comments.

    As I mentioned above in another comment, there’s no distinct boundaries, and you’ll find all types everywhere. The Tuatha are thought to have arrived, probably from the Eastern Pontic Steppe (we wuz Aryans), around 4000 or so years ago at the start of the Bronze Age. They fought bloody wars to subdue the older possibly north-Iberian and neolithic near-Eastern descended peoples and settled all over the country as a new class of local rulers. They probably account for a majority of the modern Irish genetic identity, and are diffuse across the country but obviously weaker along West and Southern coasts. Probably strongest on the East Coast and the non-Anglo North of the country. Of course there’s also other groups to consider like the later Norman and Viking infusions.

    Their name Tuatha De Danann roughly translates into God-Clan and they are attributed supernatural powers, immortality, and supremacy in mythology. The Tuatha largely make up the ancient Gaelic polytheistic pantheon.

    On a sidenote, I’m convinced the names of Irish High Kings in our semi-mythic history inspired Tolkien’s Elvish and Numenorean names: Ethriel, Erimon, Muinemon, Eber Finn, Giallchad, Dui Finn, Cimbaeth, Adamir, Caelbad.

    • Replies: @AP
    Thanks.

    The wiki page for Tuatha De Danann reminded me of Tolkien.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    So that's where the Tuatha'an - the Traveling People - came from.

    Ironic how Robert Jordan made them gypsy like pacifists instead.
  87. @AltSerrice
    As I mentioned above in another comment, there's no distinct boundaries, and you'll find all types everywhere. The Tuatha are thought to have arrived, probably from the Eastern Pontic Steppe (we wuz Aryans), around 4000 or so years ago at the start of the Bronze Age. They fought bloody wars to subdue the older possibly north-Iberian and neolithic near-Eastern descended peoples and settled all over the country as a new class of local rulers. They probably account for a majority of the modern Irish genetic identity, and are diffuse across the country but obviously weaker along West and Southern coasts. Probably strongest on the East Coast and the non-Anglo North of the country. Of course there's also other groups to consider like the later Norman and Viking infusions.

    Their name Tuatha De Danann roughly translates into God-Clan and they are attributed supernatural powers, immortality, and supremacy in mythology. The Tuatha largely make up the ancient Gaelic polytheistic pantheon.

    On a sidenote, I'm convinced the names of Irish High Kings in our semi-mythic history inspired Tolkien's Elvish and Numenorean names: Ethriel, Erimon, Muinemon, Eber Finn, Giallchad, Dui Finn, Cimbaeth, Adamir, Caelbad.

    Thanks.

    The wiki page for Tuatha De Danann reminded me of Tolkien.

  88. @Thulean Friend

    Even if generation ships are impossible, there’s still an old idea – spread the genes, by sending embryos and robots to look after them.
     
    Alternatively, store them on earth in a safe containment. Norwegians are already seeding many plants in Svalbard. There's a cool mini-documentary about it here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_OEsf-1qgY

    Of course, this would be a very difficult endeavor, and it is entirely dependent on one completely untested factor: whether Martian gravity is sufficient for healthful human development. It might not be.
     
    As Lars has already indicated, it probably is not, though I would never rule out human ingenuity to fix what may seem to be an insurmountable problem. I think Mars is more likely to be a big mining colony with plenty of space to do crazy and fun experiments, like gigantic hyperloop race-tracks and cool stuff like that.

    For the record, I don't buy the theory that planet Earth is "unique". Even a very cursory look at amount of planets in the universe would disabuse anyone of that illusion. The question is how long the distances are to the nearest one and the technology we have, and that's the depressing part, hence these Nobel winners' skepticism. OTOH, one should not be blinded by medals and awards. Even very smart people can be wrong - and frequently are.

    Yuri Milner, one of the earliest investors in Facebook, has backed a fascinating project aiming to tackle this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_Starshot

    I personally think we'd need to travel through black holes to make any serious interstellar travel feasible, so substantially faster than even Milner's initiative.

    When I speak of sufficient gravity, I am really talking about human anatomy and physiology. And, of course, plant biology.

    When it comes to orbit, we know micro gravity is not enough for humans. At a bare minimum there is muscle and bone loss – if you extrapolate the trend lines, this would be fatal. Perhaps there are ways to address these problems – I think bone loss is approachable – but then you get to the problem of plumbing.

    Potentially, Martian gravity would be enough to solve these problems, or make them solvable with slight tweaks – drugs or gene editing. But is it enough for normal cellular communication and development? For sperm to fertilize egg, for stem cells to differentiate and organize properly into different tissues and organs? For healthy babies to be born? For normal adolescence? For normal development of the brain?

    A magnetosphere is actually unnecessary, unless you are terraforming, or want to walk the surface. A few inches of dirt are sufficient to block harmful radiation. An atmosphere is likewise unnecessary, as you can pressurize underground spaces, with a certain a mount of gravity, a leak isn’t catastrophic. Food would be grown underground, in my view.

    I know giving up the sky doesn’t sound pleasant, but I think of cathedral-like spaces, art museums, botanical gardens, zoos. Bicycle paths that are kilometers long. Skating rinks and indoor ski slopes – though I don’t know if these would work. Best of all, I think of hundreds of millions of Europeans free from the menace of rubber dinghies.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    When I speak of sufficient gravity, I am really talking about human anatomy and physiology.
     
    Same here. To live on Mars would be an eternal fight against your own biology to a much greater extent than on Earth in far harsher climate. That's why I am amused by people saying they would live on Mars. Going there for short visits or using it as a mining colony, sure. Actually living there? Our species evolved on planet Earth for a reason. In fact, unless there is an attraction on Mars which would be physically impossible to do on Earth and insanely cool, I would have no interest in visiting Mars (though I would want to go out in outer space when costs fall sufficiently to the level of an airline ticket).

    Potentially, Martian gravity would be enough to solve these problems, or make them solvable with slight tweaks – drugs or gene editing. But is it enough for normal cellular communication and development? For sperm to fertilize egg, for stem cells to differentiate and organize properly into different tissues and organs? For healthy babies to be born? For normal adolescence? For normal development of the brain?
     
    It would be more efficient to upload our conscousness to a machine instead and skip the half-hearted gene-editing step. Our bodies are just repositories of our minds anyway. We still do not understand the brain very well. Let's say we could copy our consciousness, would we be able to have two bodies (one physical and one machine) at once? And if so, would it cause any complications (such as shizophrenia)?
    , @Bies Podkrakowski

    Best of all, I think of hundreds of millions of Europeans free from the menace of rubber dinghies.
     
    This is pure fantasy.

    The rest I like very much but we must realise there always will be rubber dinghies. The need for them comes from the inside not outside. So there will be rubber dinghies on Mars or their equivalent even if their occupants have to be mass cloned.
  89. @AltSerrice
    As I mentioned above in another comment, there's no distinct boundaries, and you'll find all types everywhere. The Tuatha are thought to have arrived, probably from the Eastern Pontic Steppe (we wuz Aryans), around 4000 or so years ago at the start of the Bronze Age. They fought bloody wars to subdue the older possibly north-Iberian and neolithic near-Eastern descended peoples and settled all over the country as a new class of local rulers. They probably account for a majority of the modern Irish genetic identity, and are diffuse across the country but obviously weaker along West and Southern coasts. Probably strongest on the East Coast and the non-Anglo North of the country. Of course there's also other groups to consider like the later Norman and Viking infusions.

    Their name Tuatha De Danann roughly translates into God-Clan and they are attributed supernatural powers, immortality, and supremacy in mythology. The Tuatha largely make up the ancient Gaelic polytheistic pantheon.

    On a sidenote, I'm convinced the names of Irish High Kings in our semi-mythic history inspired Tolkien's Elvish and Numenorean names: Ethriel, Erimon, Muinemon, Eber Finn, Giallchad, Dui Finn, Cimbaeth, Adamir, Caelbad.

    So that’s where the Tuatha’an – the Traveling People – came from.

    Ironic how Robert Jordan made them gypsy like pacifists instead.

    • Replies: @AltSerrice
    Amusing. Never noticed that connection. He must have lifted the name and little else.
  90. @AP
    "Nodwink's" idea of a hellhole:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXbampGI2Kk&t=509s

    Not diverse enough?

    Speaking of diversity, there really are a lot of subcons in Poland. Or in Warsaw and Kraków, at any rate.

    I notice even the small grocery shops stock things like Jalfrezi Chicken in the ready meals section.

    • Replies: @AP
    Thanks for the observation. I haven't been to Poland since the mid 2000s and didn't notice them then.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?

    I was recently in Moscow for a few days. I didn't stay on Tverskaya like I always do but at a different flat owned by my in-laws, on Taganskaya (which is the edge of central Moscow not the very center). Much more Central Asians there than I recall seeing in the more central neighborhood, like 4 of the 5 people working at Dodo Pizza next to the metro station, our "doorman" and his wife, several families we see around.

    Has there been some sort of recent influx since spring 2018 when I was last there, or is it just a neighborhood effect?
    , @Mr. XYZ

    I notice even the small grocery shops stock things like Jalfrezi Chicken in the ready meals section.
     
    How many such meals did you try during your trip to Poland? I mean specifically South Asian meals.
  91. @AP

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others.
     
    Which regions of Ireland do their descendants live?

    Interesting stuff, I concur with Thulean friend that one comes across neat info in the open thread comments.

    According to tradition, modern-day Irish are Milesians – descendants of the sons of Miles, who was a king in Spain (though not a Spanish king.) There is some tradition about where different landings were made, and even a related tradition of which families are descended from which sons of Miles. And I believe there are pedigrees connecting to them, off the top of my head, I will say back around about 1000 BC (and before).

    The Milesians defeated the Tuatha Dé Danann. IIRC, there are three poetic names of Ireland which come from three queens of the Tuatha, who when meeting the Milesians, each promised that they would have good luck, if they named the land after them. But the Tuatha, magical beings, were supposedly banished underground to become fairies, living under old hill forts.

    There are lots of stories about the Tuatha, after they were banished underground. One of these, who is still associated with a hill today, Aillen the Burner, would lull the men of Tara to sleep with his music before burning the palace to the ground, every Samhain before he was defeated by Finn McCool, who managed to stay awake by breathing-in the fumes of poison on his spear-tip.

    The whole mythic cycle of invasion is interesting on some levels, but I dislike the biblical parallels. If you ask me, it shows too much influence of Christianity: the Irish were supposedly in Egypt at one point, and these pedigrees eventually hit biblical figures. This is probably also true to a lesser extent of Ireland’s other surviving myths – the actual pagan gods seem close to erased.

    • Replies: @AltSerrice
    The Milesians are the most recent arrivals if I recall correctly, but genealogically their impact was not as great as the earlier mass migrations.

    The lords of Munster specifically used the Milesian connection to claim refuge in Spain under Philip II, arguing that they were basically Spaniards. However this right was not afforded as extensively to the less Iberia-connected Leinster and Ulster families, most of which went to Catholic Austria instead.

    I agree on the biblical connections, that was the addition of later monks, particularly after the Norman arrivals who felt a need to connect Irish beliefs and culture with the continent. Our Christianity was as much Pagan as Christian and wanted to civilise it. However the semi-mythic invasion cycle comes from oral and ogham tradition thousands of years old.

  92. @Anatoly Karlin
    Speaking of diversity, there really are a lot of subcons in Poland. Or in Warsaw and Kraków, at any rate.

    I notice even the small grocery shops stock things like Jalfrezi Chicken in the ready meals section.

    Thanks for the observation. I haven’t been to Poland since the mid 2000s and didn’t notice them then.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?

    I was recently in Moscow for a few days. I didn’t stay on Tverskaya like I always do but at a different flat owned by my in-laws, on Taganskaya (which is the edge of central Moscow not the very center). Much more Central Asians there than I recall seeing in the more central neighborhood, like 4 of the 5 people working at Dodo Pizza next to the metro station, our “doorman” and his wife, several families we see around.

    Has there been some sort of recent influx since spring 2018 when I was last there, or is it just a neighborhood effect?

    • Replies: @Korenchkin

    Has there been some sort of recent influx since spring 2018
     
    Yes, though probably not as large as this article makes it out to be
    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/07/23/russias-migrant-numbers-surge-to-highest-levels-in-a-decade-study-says-a66535
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Polish Perspective had a number of good takes on that if you search his comments history for Indians in Poland. It's overwhelmingly happened in the past decade.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    Nowhere close. Caucasians/Central Asians = 10-15% of Moscow's (real) population, while my casual one hour's worth of observation suggests subcons/etc. constitute 1-2% of Warsaw's. (I will have more accurate takes when I spend more time in Warsaw, I'll be there on Dec 24/25-30). As I pointed out above, the function of Central Asian Gastarbeiters in Poland is performed by Ukrainians. I can well imagine that they constitute a similar share of Warsaw's population, though this is of course just a guess - after all, it's not like they stand out.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    The general pattern, as I see it, is that the flux waxes and wanes in tandem with the economy. Lots of Gastarbeiters left after the 2014 oil crash. Now they are beginning to come back, as the Russian economy becomes more competitive in terms of salaries. They will then retreat again in the next recession. And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.
  93. @neutral

    Why would an African go to Ukraine when France, Germany and Sweden are right next to it
     
    Two reasons.
    1) The Ukrainian cargo cult that wishes to emulate their American masters in all things, they already had gay pride parades under heavy military protection, they will worship blacks as gods no different to how they do it in America. Miscegenation propaganda has probably started, state media, and other mass media outlets will no doubt be pushing this ever harder. They will actively push to import Africans, no different to the rest of the EU.

    2) Blacks go where white people are, the increasing browning of Western Europe will mean more of them will seek better places in Eastern Europe.

    Sorry but that sounds retarded

    • Agree: AP
  94. @AP
    Thanks for the observation. I haven't been to Poland since the mid 2000s and didn't notice them then.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?

    I was recently in Moscow for a few days. I didn't stay on Tverskaya like I always do but at a different flat owned by my in-laws, on Taganskaya (which is the edge of central Moscow not the very center). Much more Central Asians there than I recall seeing in the more central neighborhood, like 4 of the 5 people working at Dodo Pizza next to the metro station, our "doorman" and his wife, several families we see around.

    Has there been some sort of recent influx since spring 2018 when I was last there, or is it just a neighborhood effect?

    Has there been some sort of recent influx since spring 2018

    Yes, though probably not as large as this article makes it out to be
    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/07/23/russias-migrant-numbers-surge-to-highest-levels-in-a-decade-study-says-a66535

  95. When did young women in Russia become pagan (or theosophist) vegetarian animal welfarists? I think it was 2012 and it happened almost overnight. Are such attitudes a reflection of economic security (they continue to exist despite 2014) or income/wealth? Will it happen in China. They appear to be correlated with delayed marriage. Some threshold of urgency (no longer urgent) being reached. Is it better birth control?

    It doesn’t seem to have happened to the Poles as much. Christianity is stronger there?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Women project their maternal instincts elsewhere when they are secure and do not have children.

    Mammals are cute.
  96. @songbird
    According to tradition, modern-day Irish are Milesians - descendants of the sons of Miles, who was a king in Spain (though not a Spanish king.) There is some tradition about where different landings were made, and even a related tradition of which families are descended from which sons of Miles. And I believe there are pedigrees connecting to them, off the top of my head, I will say back around about 1000 BC (and before).

    The Milesians defeated the Tuatha Dé Danann. IIRC, there are three poetic names of Ireland which come from three queens of the Tuatha, who when meeting the Milesians, each promised that they would have good luck, if they named the land after them. But the Tuatha, magical beings, were supposedly banished underground to become fairies, living under old hill forts.

    There are lots of stories about the Tuatha, after they were banished underground. One of these, who is still associated with a hill today, Aillen the Burner, would lull the men of Tara to sleep with his music before burning the palace to the ground, every Samhain before he was defeated by Finn McCool, who managed to stay awake by breathing-in the fumes of poison on his spear-tip.

    The whole mythic cycle of invasion is interesting on some levels, but I dislike the biblical parallels. If you ask me, it shows too much influence of Christianity: the Irish were supposedly in Egypt at one point, and these pedigrees eventually hit biblical figures. This is probably also true to a lesser extent of Ireland's other surviving myths - the actual pagan gods seem close to erased.

    The Milesians are the most recent arrivals if I recall correctly, but genealogically their impact was not as great as the earlier mass migrations.

    The lords of Munster specifically used the Milesian connection to claim refuge in Spain under Philip II, arguing that they were basically Spaniards. However this right was not afforded as extensively to the less Iberia-connected Leinster and Ulster families, most of which went to Catholic Austria instead.

    I agree on the biblical connections, that was the addition of later monks, particularly after the Norman arrivals who felt a need to connect Irish beliefs and culture with the continent. Our Christianity was as much Pagan as Christian and wanted to civilise it. However the semi-mythic invasion cycle comes from oral and ogham tradition thousands of years old.

    • Replies: @songbird
    My favorite single Irish story is the Táin Bó Cúailnge. Particularly, the tragic version, where Cú Chulainn dies, at the end. The image of him tied to the standing stone, with the raven perched above him is the greatest national iconography of which I can think.

    There is something timeless about the fight for cattle. A bit over 500 years ago, one crafty fellow, who I believe was one of my ancestors made such a raid. Being pursued, he turned on his pursuers and killed about 20 of them. I imagine it wasn't him alone, but also his sons and retainers. Of course, I connect to him in rather a zig zag way, and there are countless such references in the annals of Ireland.
  97. @AltSerrice
    I was sent that this morning by multiple people, my view on it as follows:

    'There’s certainly an element of accuracy in that assessment. The people on the West coast have an almost identical genetic identity to the 5000 year old bog bodies we dig up. And they do tend to be a bit darker of skin, hair, and eyes than the rest of the country. (Though obviously not even Mediterranean dark since it is Ireland we're talking about).

    Really it goes back to the arrivals of the different groups that settled Ireland according to our ancient chronicles. The most important of which being the Fir Bolg, the Tuatha de Danann, and the Milesians. The degree to which it is myth or history is contentious, but the arrivals identified in the Book of Invasions correspond suspiciously with the infusion of new genes into Ireland as identified from sequencing ancient corpses.

    We know roughly that the Tuatha, which are described as being descended from old pagan gods, were noted as being taller, fairer, and wiser than the others. The Milesians on the other hand are more closely related to Spanish Celts in Galicia and were the later arrivals, settling the South and West coasts. The Fir Bolg and other smaller groups are harder to identify as they have been diffused and assimilated over many millennia.'

    The children of Don (light) and the children of Llyr (darkness) are featured in the surviving elements of the Mabinogion, a Welsh cycle of legends about ancient gods, downgraded to heroes by the Christian lawyer who recorded it. Writing it down at all was too problematic for the monks. Chunks turn up in Saint’s lives but the hero has usually been replaced by a (mostly) Christian Arthur.

    Light/Darkness is a rather elemental story. The migration of the Milesians is likely to have been attached to this rather than reflect the various sides of an invasion. – Pity, good story.

    Shakespeare’s King Lear uses elements from the children of Llyr not all of which survive in other versions. MacBeth is about the last but two kings of Strathclyde (Welsh speaking Scotland). It also mixes up history and myth.

    Atlantic Celts are now considered to have arisen along the Atlantic trade routes, particularly in Port-u-gal (the port of the Gauls). The language would originally have been a trading Creole. Nevertheless, the highest %age of R1b genes is found in Wales, especially rural Wales so Celtic formed after the R1b group arrived (and they may have arrived by ship along the Mediterranean not overland by chariot – Sea People’s and all that aiming to seize Pretanic (to soothe Irish sensibilities) copper and tin. There is a view that Eiru meant copper and Pretan meant tin, at least in Phonecian if not earlier.

    So the Milesians are likely to have been the R1b carriers.

  98. @AP
    Thanks for the observation. I haven't been to Poland since the mid 2000s and didn't notice them then.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?

    I was recently in Moscow for a few days. I didn't stay on Tverskaya like I always do but at a different flat owned by my in-laws, on Taganskaya (which is the edge of central Moscow not the very center). Much more Central Asians there than I recall seeing in the more central neighborhood, like 4 of the 5 people working at Dodo Pizza next to the metro station, our "doorman" and his wife, several families we see around.

    Has there been some sort of recent influx since spring 2018 when I was last there, or is it just a neighborhood effect?

    Polish Perspective had a number of good takes on that if you search his comments history for Indians in Poland. It’s overwhelmingly happened in the past decade.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?

    Nowhere close. Caucasians/Central Asians = 10-15% of Moscow’s (real) population, while my casual one hour’s worth of observation suggests subcons/etc. constitute 1-2% of Warsaw’s. (I will have more accurate takes when I spend more time in Warsaw, I’ll be there on Dec 24/25-30). As I pointed out above, the function of Central Asian Gastarbeiters in Poland is performed by Ukrainians. I can well imagine that they constitute a similar share of Warsaw’s population, though this is of course just a guess – after all, it’s not like they stand out.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?

    The general pattern, as I see it, is that the flux waxes and wanes in tandem with the economy. Lots of Gastarbeiters left after the 2014 oil crash. Now they are beginning to come back, as the Russian economy becomes more competitive in terms of salaries. They will then retreat again in the next recession. And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill

    And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.
     
    I agree with your timeline Anatoly but not your source populations. The Chinese are far more racialist than the Russians. The Burmese, Lao, Khmer, Vietnamese, Pinoys, North Koreans, Nepalese, Mongolians and Chinese Diaspora will all come before the Central Asian Muslims are allowed in, if ever !!
    , @AP

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?

    Nowhere close. Caucasians/Central Asians = 10-15% of Moscow’s (real) population, while my casual one hour’s worth of observation suggests subcons/etc. constitute 1-2% of Warsaw’s.
     
    So while Moscow with its 15 million people is the world's largest and only mostly (over 85%) European-populated Megalopolis, Warsaw, Kiev and St. Petersburg are the world's largest over 95% European-populated cities.

    As I pointed out above, the function of Central Asian Gastarbeiters in Poland is performed by Ukrainians. I can well imagine that they constitute a similar share of Warsaw’s population, though this is of course just a guess – after all, it’s not like they stand out.
     
    Ukrainians do that too, but they also perform skilled work. As I mentioned, my friend who owns high-end property in Warsaw has a Ukrainian realtor who manages/finds tenants. There are also Ukrainian engineers, nurses, etc. - my friend even heard of Ukrainian cops. But you would be more likely to come across the Uber drivers and the construction workers on the streets.
    , @Dmitry

    flux waxes and wanes in tandem with the economy.
     
    It is a funny effect of having a completely open borders policy - immigrants run away vast large mass, when the economic situation declines. Because there is such an open borders regime, Immigrants come, but they also leave, as they can move in and out of Russia, without more than the cost of a plane ticket.

    Whereas Western Europe's relation to Africa/Middle East, there are more obstacles to immigrants (even deadly journeys in the boat) - so they would be stupid to voluntarily leave after they managed to get inside, and the difference of standard of living is more significant for them as well.

    , @Russiantroll
    Your white women are being pimped by Pakistani men, your queen diana was killed for shagging Pakistanis.

    Tommy Robinson started the edl because his sister ran away with a Pakistani.

    98% of race riots in britain you lose against Pakistani fist fighters. Just go to YouTube and type in 2 Pakistanis vs 60 EDL members

    50,000 soviet whites were buried under afghanistan by the populations of Pashtuns in Pakistan.

    The British Empire and Greeks fell on their backs against todays people of Pakistan. Winston Churchill and the homo Alexander ran for their lives against Pakistanis of today

    Soon Pakistanis will conquer the United States, plant the Pakistani flag in New York City and make you white people their slaves.

    The Greatest warrior race of the world are Pakistanis but they are now organized and will spread like wildfire in all white countries around the world from america to russia and britain and finally stampeding israeli white neanderthals out of Israel too.

    Pakistanis are an Indo Aryan race of Israelites and no fake grip strength report is going to change your future of being slaves to Pakistanis.

    New York, London, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Berlin are all going to be Pakistani territory soon and then we will have brothels full of your white females like they're doing in britain already.

  99. @Anatoly Karlin
    Polish Perspective had a number of good takes on that if you search his comments history for Indians in Poland. It's overwhelmingly happened in the past decade.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    Nowhere close. Caucasians/Central Asians = 10-15% of Moscow's (real) population, while my casual one hour's worth of observation suggests subcons/etc. constitute 1-2% of Warsaw's. (I will have more accurate takes when I spend more time in Warsaw, I'll be there on Dec 24/25-30). As I pointed out above, the function of Central Asian Gastarbeiters in Poland is performed by Ukrainians. I can well imagine that they constitute a similar share of Warsaw's population, though this is of course just a guess - after all, it's not like they stand out.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    The general pattern, as I see it, is that the flux waxes and wanes in tandem with the economy. Lots of Gastarbeiters left after the 2014 oil crash. Now they are beginning to come back, as the Russian economy becomes more competitive in terms of salaries. They will then retreat again in the next recession. And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.

    And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.

    I agree with your timeline Anatoly but not your source populations. The Chinese are far more racialist than the Russians. The Burmese, Lao, Khmer, Vietnamese, Pinoys, North Koreans, Nepalese, Mongolians and Chinese Diaspora will all come before the Central Asian Muslims are allowed in, if ever !!

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    Heck I expect to see Buryats walking the streets of Beijing before I see Bukharans.
    , @Europe Europa
    I'm not convinced the Chinese are really all that racialist, they don't like the Uyghurs but that's more because they mostly want their own state and resent being ruled by China, not really because they are Central Asians or even because they are Muslim.

    In fact, the Chinese are actively trying to encourage race mixing to dilute Uyghur identity which doesn't sound like the mentality of a particularly racialist people to me. The Chinese attitude to race doesn't seem fundamentally much different to the Russian attitude in my opinion, as long as their non-Chinese minorities are loyal to the state and speak Mandarin I don't think they care that much about race.
  100. @Blinky Bill

    And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.
     
    I agree with your timeline Anatoly but not your source populations. The Chinese are far more racialist than the Russians. The Burmese, Lao, Khmer, Vietnamese, Pinoys, North Koreans, Nepalese, Mongolians and Chinese Diaspora will all come before the Central Asian Muslims are allowed in, if ever !!

    Heck I expect to see Buryats walking the streets of Beijing before I see Bukharans.

  101. How many Poles are of Ukrainian descent / have the characteristic -uk, -ukov, -ko surnames?
    Any rough estimates? It has caught my attention recently, due to more frequent contacts with Poles and Polish companies.

    • Replies: @AP

    How many Poles are of Ukrainian descent / have the characteristic -uk, -ukov, -ko surnames?
     
    The ending -enko is typically Ukrainian but -ko is not necessarily so. The surname -ukov is not typical Ukrainian. Ukrainians sometimes Russified their -uk endings by adding the Russian -ov.

    This list indicates such endings are uncommon in Poland:

    https://www.polishancestors.com/untitled

    Maybe the people whose names you see are actually Ukrainians in Poland rather than natives?
    , @Mikhail
    Or of Belarusian or Russian origin. Slavic surnames ending in ko aren't necessarily Ukrainian in origin.

    I once corrected a Polish friend on Natalie Wood's background.
  102. @Thulean Friend
    https://i.imgur.com/6kk5XhS.jpg

    2/10 wnb

    • Replies: @iffen
    2/10 wnb

    Evil women have the best stuff.

  103. @Anatoly Karlin
    Polish Perspective had a number of good takes on that if you search his comments history for Indians in Poland. It's overwhelmingly happened in the past decade.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    Nowhere close. Caucasians/Central Asians = 10-15% of Moscow's (real) population, while my casual one hour's worth of observation suggests subcons/etc. constitute 1-2% of Warsaw's. (I will have more accurate takes when I spend more time in Warsaw, I'll be there on Dec 24/25-30). As I pointed out above, the function of Central Asian Gastarbeiters in Poland is performed by Ukrainians. I can well imagine that they constitute a similar share of Warsaw's population, though this is of course just a guess - after all, it's not like they stand out.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    The general pattern, as I see it, is that the flux waxes and wanes in tandem with the economy. Lots of Gastarbeiters left after the 2014 oil crash. Now they are beginning to come back, as the Russian economy becomes more competitive in terms of salaries. They will then retreat again in the next recession. And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?

    Nowhere close. Caucasians/Central Asians = 10-15% of Moscow’s (real) population, while my casual one hour’s worth of observation suggests subcons/etc. constitute 1-2% of Warsaw’s.

    So while Moscow with its 15 million people is the world’s largest and only mostly (over 85%) European-populated Megalopolis, Warsaw, Kiev and St. Petersburg are the world’s largest over 95% European-populated cities.

    As I pointed out above, the function of Central Asian Gastarbeiters in Poland is performed by Ukrainians. I can well imagine that they constitute a similar share of Warsaw’s population, though this is of course just a guess – after all, it’s not like they stand out.

    Ukrainians do that too, but they also perform skilled work. As I mentioned, my friend who owns high-end property in Warsaw has a Ukrainian realtor who manages/finds tenants. There are also Ukrainian engineers, nurses, etc. – my friend even heard of Ukrainian cops. But you would be more likely to come across the Uber drivers and the construction workers on the streets.

    • Replies: @AP

    So while Moscow with its 15 million people is the world’s largest and only mostly (over 85%) European-populated Megalopolis, Warsaw, Kiev and St. Petersburg are the world’s largest over 95% European-populated cities.
     
    Poking around wiki, I see that Rome is actually only about 5% non-European. Though I wonder if these are merely official figures.

    So among large cities with metro areas over 3 million that have overwhelmingly, 95% or more, European populations (including non-Muslim and non-gypsy) you've got in order of population: St. Petersburg, Rome, Kiev, Warsaw.

    Prague and Minsk almost make it, each has a metro area population of 2.6 million.

    There are still a bunch of large cities in the world that are like Moscow - about 85% European-populated.
  104. @neutral

    You’re underestimating the power of TV
     
    He is a jew, he knows precisely (((who))) controls TV and how is really does massive social engineering.

    Kiev will be non white majority by 2050, this is inevitable, there will be a mass migration of Africans and mass miscegenation, those dumb people wanted this with that stupid Maidan cuckery.

    This is stupid.

    2050 is only 31 years away.

    The Ukrainian economy would need to improve at a rate of 4% per capita per year over the next three decades simply to reach the same GDP PPP per capita as Russia and Poland have right now.

    To reach the same level as Western Europe today it will need to grow at a blistering 6% per capita for three decades.

    Russia is of course outside the Western orbit (though hardly based and redpilled), but Warsaw certainly isn’t majority non-white. And most Western European capital cities aren’t even majority non-white yet. As far as I know it’s only London and Paris.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    Ukraine will probably have a cuh-rayzee growth spurt for a year or two when the war ends as the economy reassembles
    , @Dmitry
    Do you think London is majority non-white people?

    I think London is majority non-white people in any poor areas of London which have a lot of public housing.

    It's majority not anglosaxon definitely. But think it is still majority white (North European), if you include all the Dutch, Scandinavians, Russians, Polish, Germans, Romanians, French, etc, living in London.

    Also remember around half of people you see in streets in London, are foreign tourists.

    With the tourists, I think it's above 60% European people in central London.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbIbe0_IFo4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-h1DVkv8Jo

  105. @Mitleser
    Being a client state is not free.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/bfm1808.jpg

    What exactly are you trying to demonstrate with this chart?

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    You know Thor and your going tell us why his wrong right ? 😄
  106. @Epigon
    How many Poles are of Ukrainian descent / have the characteristic -uk, -ukov, -ko surnames?
    Any rough estimates? It has caught my attention recently, due to more frequent contacts with Poles and Polish companies.

    How many Poles are of Ukrainian descent / have the characteristic -uk, -ukov, -ko surnames?

    The ending -enko is typically Ukrainian but -ko is not necessarily so. The surname -ukov is not typical Ukrainian. Ukrainians sometimes Russified their -uk endings by adding the Russian -ov.

    This list indicates such endings are uncommon in Poland:

    https://www.polishancestors.com/untitled

    Maybe the people whose names you see are actually Ukrainians in Poland rather than natives?

  107. @Thorfinnsson
    What exactly are you trying to demonstrate with this chart?

    You know Thor and your going tell us why his wrong right ? 😄

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I think his point is that the uptick of Japanese holdings of Treasuries is something that was apparently demanded by Washington. He should clarify.
  108. @Thorfinnsson
    This is stupid.

    2050 is only 31 years away.

    The Ukrainian economy would need to improve at a rate of 4% per capita per year over the next three decades simply to reach the same GDP PPP per capita as Russia and Poland have right now.

    To reach the same level as Western Europe today it will need to grow at a blistering 6% per capita for three decades.

    Russia is of course outside the Western orbit (though hardly based and redpilled), but Warsaw certainly isn't majority non-white. And most Western European capital cities aren't even majority non-white yet. As far as I know it's only London and Paris.

    Ukraine will probably have a cuh-rayzee growth spurt for a year or two when the war ends as the economy reassembles

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    As they say, it's difficult to make predictions, particularly about the future. But it seems likely that the Ukraine will enjoy an above average growth rate for the next three decades.

    But 4% per capita, let alone 6%?

    I'm not so sure.

    There haven't been any East Asia style growth stories in Eastern Europe since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Have a look at the star pupil, the Czech Republic:

    http://mecometer.com/image/linechart-country-historic/czech-republic/gdp-growth-rate.png

    The Ukraine has the "advantage" that it's much poorer relative to Western Europe today than the Czech Republic was in 1990, but also many disadvantages that I don't need to point out.

    4% over the next three decades is probably the upper end of what's realistic.

    In other words the country is going to be relatively poor for a very long time, and thus it's not likely to attract many immigrants of any race regardless of how globohomozogged its government allegedly is.

    I hate to endorse the claim that the Ukraine is comparable to an African state, but in money terms it's not so different from several African states. A quick look at the tables shows that presently GDP PPP per capita is near the level of Namibia. No doubt actual living standards in the Ukraine are much better for many reasons, but then footloose Namibians don't face a binary choice between going to the Ukraine or staying home.
  109. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Germany was banned from those Olympic games in the 1920s because the British and French were trying to punish them for supposedly starting the First World War.

    This is one of many examples of the Orwellian nature of Franco-British elites. As an American, in a sense of pure self-interest, I could care less who started World War One: We, the Americans, had nothing to gain from involvement in that war. One of my ancestral relatives, a farmhand, died in France in 1918, and for what? But the Allies had their own agendas.

    By World War Two, they had wised up a bit. They waged a comprehensive total war against the Germans; hideous fire-bombing of harmless large cities, like Darmstadt and Dresden, were combined with small bombings of innocuous rural villages (for example: the tiny but historic Bavarian town of Ellingen was bombed by the USAAF despite having absolutely no military importance whatever) specifically to terrorize the German people and kill as many of them as possible. In the aftermath, the occupation governments simply did what the Allies had tried to do after World War 1: create a nation of self-loathing Germans. But the Allies were smarter this time; they did allow the new German state the outlet of sports. So Germany was never banned from any athletic competitions.

    None of is this conditional on a defense of the Nazi German leadership, of course. One does not have to defend Hitler to realize that the goal of the Allies - particularly the British - was to kill as many Germans as possible, destroy as much of their (pre-Nazi!) culture as possible (they even burned much the works of Richard Strauss, although apparently by accident), and permanently reduce the heart and soul of the German nation.

    There is simply no better way to interpret the co-existence of massive anti-civilian bombing with a sophisticated post-war "re-education" effort. The goal was not just to defeat Nazi Germany, but to subjugate Germany, period. This sort of thing is not unique; human history is obviously full of wars of conquest. What makes World War Two unique is the massive scale and sophistication combined with the "Christian crusade" pretense, an example of which would be how the British and Americans often sought to deceive their pilots and their populations that bombing refugees was necessary to end the war. Absurd! As Orwell said, such deceit is necessary to convince "highly civilized men" to fire-bomb whole cities.

    This is all important for us to learn, though, because it is very similar to the globalist plan for our western countries. They have simply relied less on the heavy steel bludgeon of war and more on the captivating trap of profitable materialism.

    You’re projecting too much of the postwar settlement onto the wartime allied bombing campaign. And actually it should be noted that the “re-education” effort didn’t go into overdrive until the 68ers arrived on the scene. De-nazification was handed over to the Germans themselves in 1946 and over by 1950. The early federal republic was a conservative society in which many officials from the Third Reich served in high government positions.

    As for the bombing campaign specifically, the British quickly discovered that they sustained unsustainable attrition in daylight raids. This prompted a shift to night time bombing, which with the technology of the time precluded accurate bombing. Based on studies of British civilian morale during the Blitz, the British concluded that the most devastating impact to civilian morale came from destroying people’s homes. This led to “dehousing” being adopted by the British cabinet in 1942.

    The USAAF for its part maintained a focus on daylight raids on strategic industries. The 500 pound bombs dropped by American bombers had been specifically designed to destroy mechanical factory power transmission systems (the geniuses in the air corps failed to notice the electrification of industry). This began inauspiciously with the failed effort to knock out ball bearing production but ended triumphantly with the successful destruction of Germany’s oil industry.

    Late war bombing of peripheral areas was simply due to the Law of the Hammer and was probably also done to intimidate the USSR.

  110. @Nodwink
    Ukraine is a hell-hole. Truly one of the most cursed nations. Nuke it.

    Nah, Russia needs it – it needs to stop being Ukropland and become core Russia again, then be settled by surplus Siberians. Economic growth +100

  111. @AP

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?

    Nowhere close. Caucasians/Central Asians = 10-15% of Moscow’s (real) population, while my casual one hour’s worth of observation suggests subcons/etc. constitute 1-2% of Warsaw’s.
     
    So while Moscow with its 15 million people is the world's largest and only mostly (over 85%) European-populated Megalopolis, Warsaw, Kiev and St. Petersburg are the world's largest over 95% European-populated cities.

    As I pointed out above, the function of Central Asian Gastarbeiters in Poland is performed by Ukrainians. I can well imagine that they constitute a similar share of Warsaw’s population, though this is of course just a guess – after all, it’s not like they stand out.
     
    Ukrainians do that too, but they also perform skilled work. As I mentioned, my friend who owns high-end property in Warsaw has a Ukrainian realtor who manages/finds tenants. There are also Ukrainian engineers, nurses, etc. - my friend even heard of Ukrainian cops. But you would be more likely to come across the Uber drivers and the construction workers on the streets.

    So while Moscow with its 15 million people is the world’s largest and only mostly (over 85%) European-populated Megalopolis, Warsaw, Kiev and St. Petersburg are the world’s largest over 95% European-populated cities.

    Poking around wiki, I see that Rome is actually only about 5% non-European. Though I wonder if these are merely official figures.

    So among large cities with metro areas over 3 million that have overwhelmingly, 95% or more, European populations (including non-Muslim and non-gypsy) you’ve got in order of population: St. Petersburg, Rome, Kiev, Warsaw.

    Prague and Minsk almost make it, each has a metro area population of 2.6 million.

    There are still a bunch of large cities in the world that are like Moscow – about 85% European-populated.

    • Replies: @songbird

    Poking around wiki, I see that Rome is actually only about 5% non-European.
     
    Way of the Dragon (1972) had Bruce Lee as a restauranteur in Rome.

    This past year, I saw an Indian tourist commercial that I thought was pretty offensive. It centered around an Indian bookseller in Rome, magically enchanting two European kids to go to India as tourists to see the wildlife. Not to settle some ancient city that was central to their civilization, and become a bridgehead for infinite invasion.

    Of course, both those things are fiction. But I doubt the numbers.
    , @Dmitry
    In Napoli, for example - there is an area (near where we stayed) with African/Arabs immigrants. But the rest of this city is almost all Italian people (besides that Chinese people who own the small shops).

    What happens is the foreign immigrants go to the part of the country where the economy is more "booming". I guess somewhere like Milan or Turin.

    Immigrants can choose any city they want at first (they have no prior commitment to a location, unlike local people), so as a trend all go very quickly as a herd to the part of the country where there are more jobs, welfare spending and money.

  112. @Philip Owen
    When did young women in Russia become pagan (or theosophist) vegetarian animal welfarists? I think it was 2012 and it happened almost overnight. Are such attitudes a reflection of economic security (they continue to exist despite 2014) or income/wealth? Will it happen in China. They appear to be correlated with delayed marriage. Some threshold of urgency (no longer urgent) being reached. Is it better birth control?

    It doesn't seem to have happened to the Poles as much. Christianity is stronger there?

    Women project their maternal instincts elsewhere when they are secure and do not have children.

    Mammals are cute.

    • Agree: Korenchkin
  113. @Blinky Bill
    You know Thor and your going tell us why his wrong right ? 😄

    I think his point is that the uptick of Japanese holdings of Treasuries is something that was apparently demanded by Washington. He should clarify.

  114. @Thulean Friend

    In this light, the idea of modifying people to be better athletes might actually be considered to be a noble endeavor. It might be seen to actually advance something – technology. If one was a transhumanist, it would be natural to cheer it.
     
    https://i.imgur.com/esZDPzE.jpg

    One of these guys is a murderer(Oscar Pistorius), but putting that fact aside, you can already see this being advanced in the paralympics. I wouldn't be surprised if we got to a place where people with "disabilities" were running faster than normal people because technology advanced so quickly.

    This is perhaps even more tantalising in mental sports like chess where neurological technologies have huge scope for improvements, past even human peak levels.

    And it might be absolutely necessary, if we are to colonize space.
     
    I was at the Nobel lectures the other week, and this year's physics winners were basically ruling out human space colonisation completely. To get to the closest planet with similar conditions like ours would take several millions of years according to them and as such it would mostly be a waste of time. Then there's the more philosophical view that if Nicklas Boström is correct about his artificial reality hypothesis, then it would make sense to invest into life-like VR and just explore the universe that way because what we see around us isn't "real" anyway.

    Why should we focus on other planets?

    • Replies: @Pericles
    Elysium was one of the best movies of recent years.
  115. @Korenchkin
    Ukraine will probably have a cuh-rayzee growth spurt for a year or two when the war ends as the economy reassembles

    As they say, it’s difficult to make predictions, particularly about the future. But it seems likely that the Ukraine will enjoy an above average growth rate for the next three decades.

    But 4% per capita, let alone 6%?

    I’m not so sure.

    There haven’t been any East Asia style growth stories in Eastern Europe since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Have a look at the star pupil, the Czech Republic:

    The Ukraine has the “advantage” that it’s much poorer relative to Western Europe today than the Czech Republic was in 1990, but also many disadvantages that I don’t need to point out.

    4% over the next three decades is probably the upper end of what’s realistic.

    In other words the country is going to be relatively poor for a very long time, and thus it’s not likely to attract many immigrants of any race regardless of how globohomozogged its government allegedly is.

    I hate to endorse the claim that the Ukraine is comparable to an African state, but in money terms it’s not so different from several African states. A quick look at the tables shows that presently GDP PPP per capita is near the level of Namibia. No doubt actual living standards in the Ukraine are much better for many reasons, but then footloose Namibians don’t face a binary choice between going to the Ukraine or staying home.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    I think (hope) the growth spur will be crazy, since it's coming from a very low base, like African countries which have 10%+ growth due to economies rapidly leaping forward due to very low starting points
    Maybe the EU or Russia finally fully take over and dump some cash to renovate the place, Poland/Crimea style
    Ukraine has a lot of potential, a lot

    I mean it's currently below Kosovo (if you count it as a state) and Moldova, it simply can't stay that way

    , @Korenchkin

    There haven’t been any East Asia style growth stories in Eastern Europe
     
    Poland?
    https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/poland-gdp-constant-2010.png
  116. @Thorfinnsson
    As they say, it's difficult to make predictions, particularly about the future. But it seems likely that the Ukraine will enjoy an above average growth rate for the next three decades.

    But 4% per capita, let alone 6%?

    I'm not so sure.

    There haven't been any East Asia style growth stories in Eastern Europe since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Have a look at the star pupil, the Czech Republic:

    http://mecometer.com/image/linechart-country-historic/czech-republic/gdp-growth-rate.png

    The Ukraine has the "advantage" that it's much poorer relative to Western Europe today than the Czech Republic was in 1990, but also many disadvantages that I don't need to point out.

    4% over the next three decades is probably the upper end of what's realistic.

    In other words the country is going to be relatively poor for a very long time, and thus it's not likely to attract many immigrants of any race regardless of how globohomozogged its government allegedly is.

    I hate to endorse the claim that the Ukraine is comparable to an African state, but in money terms it's not so different from several African states. A quick look at the tables shows that presently GDP PPP per capita is near the level of Namibia. No doubt actual living standards in the Ukraine are much better for many reasons, but then footloose Namibians don't face a binary choice between going to the Ukraine or staying home.

    I think (hope) the growth spur will be crazy, since it’s coming from a very low base, like African countries which have 10%+ growth due to economies rapidly leaping forward due to very low starting points
    Maybe the EU or Russia finally fully take over and dump some cash to renovate the place, Poland/Crimea style
    Ukraine has a lot of potential, a lot

    I mean it’s currently below Kosovo (if you count it as a state) and Moldova, it simply can’t stay that way

    • Replies: @AP

    I mean it’s currently below Kosovo (if you count it as a state) and Moldova, it simply can’t stay that way
     
    It's not below Moldova.

    In 2018 Ukraine's per capita GDP PPP was $9,283 and Moldova's was $7,305. It's a big difference.

    In terms of nominal GDP per capita Moldova was at $3,218 and Ukraine at $2,963. This was because of the currency collapse. Russia also had a currency collapse and its nominal GDP per capita is lower than that of Argentina and Romania, and only slightly better than half that of Greece (in PPP terms Russia easily surpasses Argentina, surpasses Romania and is about even with Greece).

    However 2019 was a good year for Ukraine and its currency has strengthened, so on that measure it should surpass Moldova.

    Due to strengthening of hryvnia, average monthly wage in Ukraine was $456 per month in October 2019:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

    In July 2019 (latest figure) it was $430 in Moldova:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/moldova/wages

    :::::::::::::::::::::

    In comparison it is $534 in Belarus in October 2019:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/belarus/wages

    And $729 in Russia:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/wages

    And $1290 in Poland:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/poland/wages

    You can see why Ukrainians go to Poland rather than to Russia for work nowadays.
  117. @Thorfinnsson
    As they say, it's difficult to make predictions, particularly about the future. But it seems likely that the Ukraine will enjoy an above average growth rate for the next three decades.

    But 4% per capita, let alone 6%?

    I'm not so sure.

    There haven't been any East Asia style growth stories in Eastern Europe since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Have a look at the star pupil, the Czech Republic:

    http://mecometer.com/image/linechart-country-historic/czech-republic/gdp-growth-rate.png

    The Ukraine has the "advantage" that it's much poorer relative to Western Europe today than the Czech Republic was in 1990, but also many disadvantages that I don't need to point out.

    4% over the next three decades is probably the upper end of what's realistic.

    In other words the country is going to be relatively poor for a very long time, and thus it's not likely to attract many immigrants of any race regardless of how globohomozogged its government allegedly is.

    I hate to endorse the claim that the Ukraine is comparable to an African state, but in money terms it's not so different from several African states. A quick look at the tables shows that presently GDP PPP per capita is near the level of Namibia. No doubt actual living standards in the Ukraine are much better for many reasons, but then footloose Namibians don't face a binary choice between going to the Ukraine or staying home.

    There haven’t been any East Asia style growth stories in Eastern Europe

    Poland?

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    I recommend a technical book by the Polish economist Marcin Piatkowski,
    called “Europe’s Growth Champion - Poland.” It also delves into the economic
    history of Poland, starting in the Middle Ages. Poland has not had a recession
    in almost 30 years, not even in 2008.
  118. @AP

    So while Moscow with its 15 million people is the world’s largest and only mostly (over 85%) European-populated Megalopolis, Warsaw, Kiev and St. Petersburg are the world’s largest over 95% European-populated cities.
     
    Poking around wiki, I see that Rome is actually only about 5% non-European. Though I wonder if these are merely official figures.

    So among large cities with metro areas over 3 million that have overwhelmingly, 95% or more, European populations (including non-Muslim and non-gypsy) you've got in order of population: St. Petersburg, Rome, Kiev, Warsaw.

    Prague and Minsk almost make it, each has a metro area population of 2.6 million.

    There are still a bunch of large cities in the world that are like Moscow - about 85% European-populated.

    Poking around wiki, I see that Rome is actually only about 5% non-European.

    Way of the Dragon (1972) had Bruce Lee as a restauranteur in Rome.

    This past year, I saw an Indian tourist commercial that I thought was pretty offensive. It centered around an Indian bookseller in Rome, magically enchanting two European kids to go to India as tourists to see the wildlife. Not to settle some ancient city that was central to their civilization, and become a bridgehead for infinite invasion.

    Of course, both those things are fiction. But I doubt the numbers.

  119. @Thulean Friend
    https://i.imgur.com/6kk5XhS.jpg

    Russians are refreshingly not politically correct.
    I’ve seen this post recently, both phrases were accompanied by pictures.
    Thunberg: “My generations will decide…”
    Response: “Your generation can’t even decide whether they are boys or girls”.
    Response from another blogger to this comment: “Usually oligophrens are kindly, but there is so much malice on her face”.

  120. @Korenchkin
    I think (hope) the growth spur will be crazy, since it's coming from a very low base, like African countries which have 10%+ growth due to economies rapidly leaping forward due to very low starting points
    Maybe the EU or Russia finally fully take over and dump some cash to renovate the place, Poland/Crimea style
    Ukraine has a lot of potential, a lot

    I mean it's currently below Kosovo (if you count it as a state) and Moldova, it simply can't stay that way

    I mean it’s currently below Kosovo (if you count it as a state) and Moldova, it simply can’t stay that way

    It’s not below Moldova.

    In 2018 Ukraine’s per capita GDP PPP was $9,283 and Moldova’s was $7,305. It’s a big difference.

    In terms of nominal GDP per capita Moldova was at $3,218 and Ukraine at $2,963. This was because of the currency collapse. Russia also had a currency collapse and its nominal GDP per capita is lower than that of Argentina and Romania, and only slightly better than half that of Greece (in PPP terms Russia easily surpasses Argentina, surpasses Romania and is about even with Greece).

    However 2019 was a good year for Ukraine and its currency has strengthened, so on that measure it should surpass Moldova.

    Due to strengthening of hryvnia, average monthly wage in Ukraine was $456 per month in October 2019:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

    In July 2019 (latest figure) it was $430 in Moldova:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/moldova/wages

    :::::::::::::::::::::

    In comparison it is $534 in Belarus in October 2019:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/belarus/wages

    And $729 in Russia:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/wages

    And $1290 in Poland:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/poland/wages

    You can see why Ukrainians go to Poland rather than to Russia for work nowadays.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    Any recent figures for how many are in Poland and Russia? (including illegal immigration estimate, if possible)
  121. @Korenchkin

    There haven’t been any East Asia style growth stories in Eastern Europe
     
    Poland?
    https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/poland-gdp-constant-2010.png

    I recommend a technical book by the Polish economist Marcin Piatkowski,
    called “Europe’s Growth Champion – Poland.” It also delves into the economic
    history of Poland, starting in the Middle Ages. Poland has not had a recession
    in almost 30 years, not even in 2008.

  122. @AltSerrice
    The Milesians are the most recent arrivals if I recall correctly, but genealogically their impact was not as great as the earlier mass migrations.

    The lords of Munster specifically used the Milesian connection to claim refuge in Spain under Philip II, arguing that they were basically Spaniards. However this right was not afforded as extensively to the less Iberia-connected Leinster and Ulster families, most of which went to Catholic Austria instead.

    I agree on the biblical connections, that was the addition of later monks, particularly after the Norman arrivals who felt a need to connect Irish beliefs and culture with the continent. Our Christianity was as much Pagan as Christian and wanted to civilise it. However the semi-mythic invasion cycle comes from oral and ogham tradition thousands of years old.

    My favorite single Irish story is the Táin Bó Cúailnge. Particularly, the tragic version, where Cú Chulainn dies, at the end. The image of him tied to the standing stone, with the raven perched above him is the greatest national iconography of which I can think.

    There is something timeless about the fight for cattle. A bit over 500 years ago, one crafty fellow, who I believe was one of my ancestors made such a raid. Being pursued, he turned on his pursuers and killed about 20 of them. I imagine it wasn’t him alone, but also his sons and retainers. Of course, I connect to him in rather a zig zag way, and there are countless such references in the annals of Ireland.

    • Replies: @AltSerrice
    Indeed, the imagery is fantastic. In general a lot of out ancient stories seem to be very vivid and often carry a melancholic theme. Just think of Oisin and Niamh in Tir na nOg, or the Children of Lir.

    You probably know this but there's a large bronze statue of the dying Cu Chulainn with the raven perched on him in the GPO. Oddly enough this pagan iconography was commissioned by De Valera who was a devout Catholic. One of the few things he did right.
  123. @Blinky Bill

    And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.
     
    I agree with your timeline Anatoly but not your source populations. The Chinese are far more racialist than the Russians. The Burmese, Lao, Khmer, Vietnamese, Pinoys, North Koreans, Nepalese, Mongolians and Chinese Diaspora will all come before the Central Asian Muslims are allowed in, if ever !!

    I’m not convinced the Chinese are really all that racialist, they don’t like the Uyghurs but that’s more because they mostly want their own state and resent being ruled by China, not really because they are Central Asians or even because they are Muslim.

    In fact, the Chinese are actively trying to encourage race mixing to dilute Uyghur identity which doesn’t sound like the mentality of a particularly racialist people to me. The Chinese attitude to race doesn’t seem fundamentally much different to the Russian attitude in my opinion, as long as their non-Chinese minorities are loyal to the state and speak Mandarin I don’t think they care that much about race.

  124. @Belarusian Dude
    You're underestimating the power of TV, and other media of indoctrination way too much. A decade of little Pavlos and Danylos being told fucking nogs and other men before cutting off your cock is the way to go will have fast, noticeable effects. Yarmak who I brought up as example had very little in the way of audience change, mostly the same lower/middle class central Ukrainians. But the comments he has on YouTube change to mirror the things he sings.

    You’re underestimating the power of TV, and other media

    From what I watch, Ukraine television channels are usually more “racist, sexist, vulgar”, less objective (generally stupid as well), compared to television in Russia, let alone to North Western Europe (where television can even be “high IQ”).

    Ukraine’s media is matching the demand of the audience, which at a proletarian yellow press.

    And since 2014, it seems like Ukraine’s politics is moving further from a “high IQ Western European country”, rather than becoming more Western.

    But probably what will happen, is (hopefully) Ukraine’s economy will develop, its politics will stabilize, and the people will become more moderate and balanced. In terms of internal politics, if Ukraine’s economy develops and they have some decades of political stability – people achieve a moderate politics as in Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc (but with a 20 year development delay).

    This is my optimistic projection. (We can easily predict Ukraine’s politics will not become like Sweden anytime soon, any more than will their standard of living).

    Yarmak who I brought up as example

    Artists, musicians, creative professionals, usually have their “idealistic” views, but does that mean you match their politics when you are older? I remember when I was 15 years old, I already knew most celebrities are simplistic, or – emotional rather than analytical people.

    • Replies: @AP

    From what I watch, Ukraine television channels are usually more “racist, sexist, vulgar”, less objective (generally stupid as well), compared to television in Russia
     
    There is a lot of stupid TV in Russia though; they had a Russian version of 16 and pregnant recently. Although the people they showed were mostly from places in eastern Ukraine like Donetsk.

    Also a lot of shouting at each other to the point of making points hard to understand, even on political shows with seemingly civilized guests.
  125. It’s a common misconception to claim that Poland and Russia have
    the same GDP(PPP) per capita. As of 2019, the figure for Poland
    at $33,891 is about 14.3% higher than $29,642 – Russia’s GDP
    per capita. In fact, partly due to Russia’s sluggish economy and
    relatively low oil prices, Central Europe (i.e., Visegrad 4 plus the
    Baltics) has been pulling away from Russia economically in recent
    years.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    You stupid, niggling pedant

    https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/akshually-jew-kike-geek-618x618.png

    I hope you are dragged behind a truck, beaten with bats, and shot
  126. @reiner Tor
    Actually, India has more like four times the population of the USA.

    “More than three times” is perfectly compatible with “four times”.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Mathematically yes, but in colloquial language, “3+ times” means something like “3-3.75 times.” If it were, say, 3.8 times or more (there is no exact boundary, but it’s roughly there), you would say that it was “almost 4 times” larger, unless you really didn’t know that it not only exceeded 3, but nearly reached 4. (Or, in the case of India’s population relative to the USA, actually exceeded 4, which is definitely over the point where “3+ times” is still used.)

    You can leave it without a reaction, or you can say a thank you there, but insisting you were correct just elicited this response from me, an autist.

  127. @Thorfinnsson
    This is stupid.

    2050 is only 31 years away.

    The Ukrainian economy would need to improve at a rate of 4% per capita per year over the next three decades simply to reach the same GDP PPP per capita as Russia and Poland have right now.

    To reach the same level as Western Europe today it will need to grow at a blistering 6% per capita for three decades.

    Russia is of course outside the Western orbit (though hardly based and redpilled), but Warsaw certainly isn't majority non-white. And most Western European capital cities aren't even majority non-white yet. As far as I know it's only London and Paris.

    Do you think London is majority non-white people?

    I think London is majority non-white people in any poor areas of London which have a lot of public housing.

    It’s majority not anglosaxon definitely. But think it is still majority white (North European), if you include all the Dutch, Scandinavians, Russians, Polish, Germans, Romanians, French, etc, living in London.

    Also remember around half of people you see in streets in London, are foreign tourists.

    With the tourists, I think it’s above 60% European people in central London.

  128. @AP

    So while Moscow with its 15 million people is the world’s largest and only mostly (over 85%) European-populated Megalopolis, Warsaw, Kiev and St. Petersburg are the world’s largest over 95% European-populated cities.
     
    Poking around wiki, I see that Rome is actually only about 5% non-European. Though I wonder if these are merely official figures.

    So among large cities with metro areas over 3 million that have overwhelmingly, 95% or more, European populations (including non-Muslim and non-gypsy) you've got in order of population: St. Petersburg, Rome, Kiev, Warsaw.

    Prague and Minsk almost make it, each has a metro area population of 2.6 million.

    There are still a bunch of large cities in the world that are like Moscow - about 85% European-populated.

    In Napoli, for example – there is an area (near where we stayed) with African/Arabs immigrants. But the rest of this city is almost all Italian people (besides that Chinese people who own the small shops).

    What happens is the foreign immigrants go to the part of the country where the economy is more “booming”. I guess somewhere like Milan or Turin.

    Immigrants can choose any city they want at first (they have no prior commitment to a location, unlike local people), so as a trend all go very quickly as a herd to the part of the country where there are more jobs, welfare spending and money.

  129. @Anatoly Karlin
    Polish Perspective had a number of good takes on that if you search his comments history for Indians in Poland. It's overwhelmingly happened in the past decade.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    Nowhere close. Caucasians/Central Asians = 10-15% of Moscow's (real) population, while my casual one hour's worth of observation suggests subcons/etc. constitute 1-2% of Warsaw's. (I will have more accurate takes when I spend more time in Warsaw, I'll be there on Dec 24/25-30). As I pointed out above, the function of Central Asian Gastarbeiters in Poland is performed by Ukrainians. I can well imagine that they constitute a similar share of Warsaw's population, though this is of course just a guess - after all, it's not like they stand out.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    The general pattern, as I see it, is that the flux waxes and wanes in tandem with the economy. Lots of Gastarbeiters left after the 2014 oil crash. Now they are beginning to come back, as the Russian economy becomes more competitive in terms of salaries. They will then retreat again in the next recession. And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.

    flux waxes and wanes in tandem with the economy.

    It is a funny effect of having a completely open borders policy – immigrants run away vast large mass, when the economic situation declines. Because there is such an open borders regime, Immigrants come, but they also leave, as they can move in and out of Russia, without more than the cost of a plane ticket.

    Whereas Western Europe’s relation to Africa/Middle East, there are more obstacles to immigrants (even deadly journeys in the boat) – so they would be stupid to voluntarily leave after they managed to get inside, and the difference of standard of living is more significant for them as well.

  130. Two questions regarding Russia; probably had been raised here before:
    1)Was Rasputin a victim of anglo/anti-semite warmongers ??!!
    The most important fact is the anglos wanted the Tzar Nick2 to keep fighting on their side in WW1 regardless how horrendous the casualties and damage done to Russia. Rasputin wanted peace but failed to persuade Nick2 and was hated by the anglo warring party. His murder was facilitated by the limey secret service. He was shot by the anglo secret agent Oswald Rayner and the russian homo prince Yusupov(who hosted Rasputin’s Last Supper and was educated b4 WW1 in england.) Yusupov died peacefully in Paree at the ripe old age of 80 in 1967, 50 yrs after the russian commie revolution.

    Rasputin was very sympathetic to the persecuted russian jewry

    http://www.jewishmag.com/160mag/grigory_rasputin/grigory_rasputin.htm

    According to Rasputin’s daughter Maria, Yusupov made homosexual advances to Rasputin his father

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Rasputin

    2)How gay was Tchaikovsky?
    I read he once attempted suicide because he couldn’t handle the mental trauma. And he was onced married trying to cover it up.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/08/sorry-russia-tchaikovsky-was-definitely-gay/311805/

    But did he get regular queer partners or just his life style experimentation? My impression if he was a ‘top’, he probably did not get the longer lasting addictive prostate stimuli(Yes, I call it the ‘Lawrence of Arabia syndrome’ )
    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/sep/18/tchaikovsky-not-gay-russian-minister.
    Seems he did mention in his diary he would shut people’s mouth by getting married

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    It seems the best musicians are either severely mentally ill or sexual deviants, sometimes both
  131. @Anon 2
    It’s a common misconception to claim that Poland and Russia have
    the same GDP(PPP) per capita. As of 2019, the figure for Poland
    at $33,891 is about 14.3% higher than $29,642 - Russia’s GDP
    per capita. In fact, partly due to Russia’s sluggish economy and
    relatively low oil prices, Central Europe (i.e., Visegrad 4 plus the
    Baltics) has been pulling away from Russia economically in recent
    years.

    You stupid, niggling pedant

    I hope you are dragged behind a truck, beaten with bats, and shot

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Re: Thorfinnsson’s conniption

    It’s 2019 - they have pills for that now.

    He just demonstrated my point for everyone to see - Germanics are a failed
    civilization. Lack of Buddhist/Aristotelian moderation will do it every time.
  132. @songbird
    When I speak of sufficient gravity, I am really talking about human anatomy and physiology. And, of course, plant biology.

    When it comes to orbit, we know micro gravity is not enough for humans. At a bare minimum there is muscle and bone loss - if you extrapolate the trend lines, this would be fatal. Perhaps there are ways to address these problems - I think bone loss is approachable - but then you get to the problem of plumbing.

    Potentially, Martian gravity would be enough to solve these problems, or make them solvable with slight tweaks - drugs or gene editing. But is it enough for normal cellular communication and development? For sperm to fertilize egg, for stem cells to differentiate and organize properly into different tissues and organs? For healthy babies to be born? For normal adolescence? For normal development of the brain?

    A magnetosphere is actually unnecessary, unless you are terraforming, or want to walk the surface. A few inches of dirt are sufficient to block harmful radiation. An atmosphere is likewise unnecessary, as you can pressurize underground spaces, with a certain a mount of gravity, a leak isn't catastrophic. Food would be grown underground, in my view.

    I know giving up the sky doesn't sound pleasant, but I think of cathedral-like spaces, art museums, botanical gardens, zoos. Bicycle paths that are kilometers long. Skating rinks and indoor ski slopes - though I don't know if these would work. Best of all, I think of hundreds of millions of Europeans free from the menace of rubber dinghies.

    When I speak of sufficient gravity, I am really talking about human anatomy and physiology.

    Same here. To live on Mars would be an eternal fight against your own biology to a much greater extent than on Earth in far harsher climate. That’s why I am amused by people saying they would live on Mars. Going there for short visits or using it as a mining colony, sure. Actually living there? Our species evolved on planet Earth for a reason. In fact, unless there is an attraction on Mars which would be physically impossible to do on Earth and insanely cool, I would have no interest in visiting Mars (though I would want to go out in outer space when costs fall sufficiently to the level of an airline ticket).

    Potentially, Martian gravity would be enough to solve these problems, or make them solvable with slight tweaks – drugs or gene editing. But is it enough for normal cellular communication and development? For sperm to fertilize egg, for stem cells to differentiate and organize properly into different tissues and organs? For healthy babies to be born? For normal adolescence? For normal development of the brain?

    It would be more efficient to upload our conscousness to a machine instead and skip the half-hearted gene-editing step. Our bodies are just repositories of our minds anyway. We still do not understand the brain very well. Let’s say we could copy our consciousness, would we be able to have two bodies (one physical and one machine) at once? And if so, would it cause any complications (such as shizophrenia)?

    • Replies: @AP

    To live on Mars would be an eternal fight against your own biology to a much greater extent than on Earth in far harsher climate.
     
    I don't know if, with sufficient technology, life on Mars would be worse than life on Earth in harsh environments is for people without technology such as those in the Sahara or Arctic. A large semi- underground colony with enormous windows overlooking spectacular landscapes, roof hundreds of feet high, and packed with amenities would actually be a lot more comfortable than the way Bedouin or Inuit traditionally live. It would not be good for me, but good enough for many people.

    In the long term it would be a good idea for humans to colonize Mars and to terraform it. Colonizing other solar systems is for science fiction, but transforming Mars would actually be doable.
    , @reiner Tor

    It would be more efficient to upload our conscousness to a machine instead and skip the half-hearted gene-editing step. Our bodies are just repositories of our minds anyway.
     
    Your mind is pretty difficult to extract from your body. For example, being a coward means that the hormones rushing to your blood and brain change your consciousness in a way to compel you to do something else than you’d do in the absence of those hormones. Courage is, when either those hormones are not strong enough, or countermanded by some other hormones (like testosterone), or when your fear of something else (social death, death of a child, etc.) strengthens your resolve. Hormones also change your brain structure (for example by lifting weights, thus increasing testosterone levels in your blood, you’ll permanently alter your brain structure, so even if your testosterone levels fall back, you will still be more courageous, both physically and socially), how can you simulate such a thing? There are many other things, for example your positive and negative carnal experience (hunger, pain, cold, heat, orgasm, sweating, etc.) strongly influencing your behavior. The negative experience might affect you in a positive way, like overcoming pain or hunger can strengthen your resolve the next time.

    The “uploaded” versions of our minds will therefore be fundamentally different from our bodily selves, and thus they won’t be us in any meaningful sense of the word.

    It’s a pretty simplistic and incorrect description to say that our bodies are mere “repositories of our minds.”
    , @songbird
    I don't believe it is possible to transmigrate the consciousness. The absolute best you could do on a theoretical level is create a carbon copy the consciousness. Without getting involved in ethical weeds, there might be good reasons for doing so. For companionship, for continued creative potential.

    Still, I think it would be a real technical challenge. I think of the banal subject of video game emulation. General rule is you need new hardware several times as capable as the old, to emulate old stuff. Wouldn't that be true of the brain as well? Then emulated games are often quite playable, but they are seldom exactly the same.

    Beyond that there are certain philosophical questions in play. Let's say you are emulated on more capable hardware. Maybe, your consciousness wouldn't want to be limited by the same constraints. Maybe, it wouldn't want its memory to be a bunch of melting clocks, but rather never to forget anything. Maybe, it would want Isaac Newton-level IQ, or something even higher than humans ever had. Wouldn't that make it very alien, and not a copy of you?

  133. These pictures don’t do the scenes justice, since taking low-light photography is notoriously difficult (especially with cheap mobile cameras) but the city truly does shine in dusk and darkness.

    Two julbord done, one to go. And speaking of jul:

  134. @Thulean Friend

    When I speak of sufficient gravity, I am really talking about human anatomy and physiology.
     
    Same here. To live on Mars would be an eternal fight against your own biology to a much greater extent than on Earth in far harsher climate. That's why I am amused by people saying they would live on Mars. Going there for short visits or using it as a mining colony, sure. Actually living there? Our species evolved on planet Earth for a reason. In fact, unless there is an attraction on Mars which would be physically impossible to do on Earth and insanely cool, I would have no interest in visiting Mars (though I would want to go out in outer space when costs fall sufficiently to the level of an airline ticket).

    Potentially, Martian gravity would be enough to solve these problems, or make them solvable with slight tweaks – drugs or gene editing. But is it enough for normal cellular communication and development? For sperm to fertilize egg, for stem cells to differentiate and organize properly into different tissues and organs? For healthy babies to be born? For normal adolescence? For normal development of the brain?
     
    It would be more efficient to upload our conscousness to a machine instead and skip the half-hearted gene-editing step. Our bodies are just repositories of our minds anyway. We still do not understand the brain very well. Let's say we could copy our consciousness, would we be able to have two bodies (one physical and one machine) at once? And if so, would it cause any complications (such as shizophrenia)?

    To live on Mars would be an eternal fight against your own biology to a much greater extent than on Earth in far harsher climate.

    I don’t know if, with sufficient technology, life on Mars would be worse than life on Earth in harsh environments is for people without technology such as those in the Sahara or Arctic. A large semi- underground colony with enormous windows overlooking spectacular landscapes, roof hundreds of feet high, and packed with amenities would actually be a lot more comfortable than the way Bedouin or Inuit traditionally live. It would not be good for me, but good enough for many people.

    In the long term it would be a good idea for humans to colonize Mars and to terraform it. Colonizing other solar systems is for science fiction, but transforming Mars would actually be doable.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth. Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake? Sounds like humanity fits the classic definition of a virus if that were the case.

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we're essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us. Alternatively, that one group of humans will use a narrower AI against another group, but that would not be an AI problem. It is a problem with violent impulses of our own species. So much of this technological angst really misses the point that most of these problems revolve around human behaviour.

  135. @Dmitry

    You’re underestimating the power of TV, and other media

     

    From what I watch, Ukraine television channels are usually more "racist, sexist, vulgar", less objective (generally stupid as well), compared to television in Russia, let alone to North Western Europe (where television can even be "high IQ").

    Ukraine's media is matching the demand of the audience, which at a proletarian yellow press.

    And since 2014, it seems like Ukraine's politics is moving further from a "high IQ Western European country", rather than becoming more Western.

    But probably what will happen, is (hopefully) Ukraine's economy will develop, its politics will stabilize, and the people will become more moderate and balanced. In terms of internal politics, if Ukraine's economy develops and they have some decades of political stability - people achieve a moderate politics as in Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc (but with a 20 year development delay).

    This is my optimistic projection. (We can easily predict Ukraine's politics will not become like Sweden anytime soon, any more than will their standard of living).


    Yarmak who I brought up as example
     
    Artists, musicians, creative professionals, usually have their "idealistic" views, but does that mean you match their politics when you are older? I remember when I was 15 years old, I already knew most celebrities are simplistic, or - emotional rather than analytical people.

    From what I watch, Ukraine television channels are usually more “racist, sexist, vulgar”, less objective (generally stupid as well), compared to television in Russia

    There is a lot of stupid TV in Russia though; they had a Russian version of 16 and pregnant recently. Although the people they showed were mostly from places in eastern Ukraine like Donetsk.

    Also a lot of shouting at each other to the point of making points hard to understand, even on political shows with seemingly civilized guests.

  136. @AP

    To live on Mars would be an eternal fight against your own biology to a much greater extent than on Earth in far harsher climate.
     
    I don't know if, with sufficient technology, life on Mars would be worse than life on Earth in harsh environments is for people without technology such as those in the Sahara or Arctic. A large semi- underground colony with enormous windows overlooking spectacular landscapes, roof hundreds of feet high, and packed with amenities would actually be a lot more comfortable than the way Bedouin or Inuit traditionally live. It would not be good for me, but good enough for many people.

    In the long term it would be a good idea for humans to colonize Mars and to terraform it. Colonizing other solar systems is for science fiction, but transforming Mars would actually be doable.

    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth. Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake? Sounds like humanity fits the classic definition of a virus if that were the case.

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we’re essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us. Alternatively, that one group of humans will use a narrower AI against another group, but that would not be an AI problem. It is a problem with violent impulses of our own species. So much of this technological angst really misses the point that most of these problems revolve around human behaviour.

    • Replies: @AP

    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth.
     
    Are we "destroying" Earth? We are changing it, making some parts more livable and others less so. We are harming some species and helping others. And we are very much as part of the Earth.

    Even if something we do happens to be harmful or a mistake, given that since we are the only part of our planet that is conscious of the planet and capable of making decisions concerning it and capable of changing it (our planet's brain, so to speak) it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus. If someone chooses to do something harmful like smoke or drink excessively too regularly, one wouldn't think of his brain as some sort of harmful virus in the body, with the implication that it should be removed or shut down in order to help the body.

    Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake?
     
    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it. How can we possible "destroy" it if we change it so that it becomes capable of sustaining human life?

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we’re essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us.
     
    1. Why does that make it less concerning?

    2. Since AI is not conscious but merely mimics consciousness an AI replacement/destruction of humanity would be the end of planetary consciousness - as far as we know the only such thing in the universe - and a regression to a dumb, unreflective, world (albeit one that would involve processes not seen in the pre-human world, though no one would be around to appreciate that, or indeed anything else). This would be tragic.
    , @silviosilver

    What we’re essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us.
     
    What we fear is AI being cruel to us to any degree. Twenty years from now, if AI's got me cooped up in solitary, I'm not going to comfort myself with the thought that at least this isn't as cruel as humans at their worst.
    , @reiner Tor
    Humans behave like any other living organisms. I resent the fact that cool animals (like the blue whale or the rhino) are disappearing, but let’s face it: invasive species have never shown the slightest concern for the local species they displaced or drove to extinction. It’s just life. Even if, of course, it’s far from inevitable that the blue whale should go extinct: we can probably prevent it.

    As to “destroying” Mars, it’s unclear what you mean by that. There’s nothing to be destroyed there, it’s just a piece of rock.
  137. @Thulean Friend
    https://i.imgur.com/6kk5XhS.jpg

    E. Michael Jones take on Greta Thunberg on Tim Kelly’s podcast is the funniest thing on the internet all year.

    https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/tkelly6785757/episodes/2019-11-12T05_44_02-08_00

    He takes 17 min and 36 seconds to get around to Greta Thunberg and that can be skipped if you are in a hurry.

  138. This is the most stern language that I have heard of coming from Russia, reported by Sputnik today. The U.S. would be collosally stupid to ignore this sudden and significant change in tone!

    below:

    “In our opinion, there are currently no prerequisites for a large-scale war. At the same time, the situation in the world remains unstable, and its development is becoming more and more dynamic. Unprecedented political, economic and information pressure is exerted on states trying to pursue an independent policy, including Russia,” he said as quoted by the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.

    “We must be prepared for any scenario of the development of the situation. Therefore, the defence potential of Russia will now and in the future be maintained at a level required to repel any-scale aggression against our state from any environment,” Gerasimov said.”

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201912181077602072-nato-drill-scenarios-point-to-preparation-for-large-scale-conflict—russian-general-staff/

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Yes, the language is harsher than usual, but this message had been repeated by Putin many times, starting with 2007 Munich speech. Basically, if the US elites had even a modicum of reason left, they should have gotten the message long before now. As they appear to be hopelessly insane, this harsh language wouldn’t have any effect, either.
  139. @Thulean Friend
    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth. Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake? Sounds like humanity fits the classic definition of a virus if that were the case.

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we're essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us. Alternatively, that one group of humans will use a narrower AI against another group, but that would not be an AI problem. It is a problem with violent impulses of our own species. So much of this technological angst really misses the point that most of these problems revolve around human behaviour.

    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth.

    Are we “destroying” Earth? We are changing it, making some parts more livable and others less so. We are harming some species and helping others. And we are very much as part of the Earth.

    Even if something we do happens to be harmful or a mistake, given that since we are the only part of our planet that is conscious of the planet and capable of making decisions concerning it and capable of changing it (our planet’s brain, so to speak) it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus. If someone chooses to do something harmful like smoke or drink excessively too regularly, one wouldn’t think of his brain as some sort of harmful virus in the body, with the implication that it should be removed or shut down in order to help the body.

    Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake?

    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it. How can we possible “destroy” it if we change it so that it becomes capable of sustaining human life?

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we’re essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us.

    1. Why does that make it less concerning?

    2. Since AI is not conscious but merely mimics consciousness an AI replacement/destruction of humanity would be the end of planetary consciousness – as far as we know the only such thing in the universe – and a regression to a dumb, unreflective, world (albeit one that would involve processes not seen in the pre-human world, though no one would be around to appreciate that, or indeed anything else). This would be tragic.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it. How can we possible “destroy” it if we change it so that it becomes capable of sustaining human life?
     
    You poor fool, using reason to battle mental faggotry.
    , @Thulean Friend

    Are we “destroying” Earth?
     
    Yes.

    it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus
     
    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration. Microplastics is for instance almost entirely due to human pollution and the problem is just increasing. You are giving humanity enormous amounts of slack.

    Mars has no life.
     
    I was responding to your terraforming hypothetical. If we make Earth harder and harder to inhabit and simply escape to Mars without fixing the root causes what makes you think we won't repeat the same mistakes on Mars and then try to find a new planet, and then a new one, and then a one, and so on. Perhaps virus was the wrong word for such behaviour and parasite would be more fitting.

    Since AI is not conscious
     
    For now. The fear is about AI is really about AGI.

    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There's no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.

    Furthermore, given the strong likelihood of the simulation hypothesis being true, even being concerned at all could be spectacularly and comically irrational.

    , @Dmitry

    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it.... Since AI is not conscious but merely mimics consciousness an AI replacement/destruction of humanity would be the end of planetary consciousness
     
    I thought you follow traditional religion. But now you propose this modern, Nietzschean,"Man creates meaning".

    There is a romantic, or bit hubristic, version of this modern view in Jung's autobiography

    There the cosmic meaning of consciousness became overwhelmingly clear to me... Man, I, in an invisible act of creation put the stamp of perfection on the world by giving it objective existence... man is indispensable for the completion of creation; that, in fact, he himself is the second creator of the world, who alone has given to the world its objective existence.

     

    But later - after he has a near-death - he writes more modestly.

    Although my belief in the world returned to me, I have never since entirely freed myself of the impression that this life is a segment of existence which is enacted in a three-dimensional boxlike universe especially set up for it.
     
    https://archive.org/stream/MemoriesDreamsReflectionsCarlJung/Memories,%20Dreams,%20Reflections%20-%20Carl%20Jung_djvu.txt
  140. @Europe Europa
    Broadly speaking the wealthier the country, the more accepting of left wing agendas such as mass immigration and race mixing. This is true even on a regional level, for example the wealthier the Eastern European country the more accepting of leftist agendas, likewise Portugal is less accepting of it than Spain and the only real difference between those countries is wealth.

    likewise Portugal is less accepting of it than Spain and the only real difference between those countries is wealth.

    What is your evidence for this?

    They both seem pretty accepting, if you ask me. Portugal has a mixed PM and Vox, Spain’s “far right” party, promotes Latin American immigration.

  141. @Mikhail
    An example of how things can kind of even out:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/12/14/czech-russian-relations-and-the-roa-conflicting-historical-narratives/

    In Soviet times, recognition of the ROA's role in liberating Prague wasn't permitted in Czechoslovakia.

    Indeed. Vlasov and Vlasovites are now suddenly back in the breaking news.
    What happened?

    Small Czech village near Prague decided to build memorial honoring soldiers of Vlasov army. When Russian media protested, mayor declared war against Russia and threatened to hang Russian foreign minister.

    https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/domaci/pavel-novotny-starosta-reporyje-rusko-reporteri-sergej-lavrov-zive-vysilani.A191216_125326_domaci_chtl

    (use google translate)

    Any comments?

    AK is not fan of Vlasov, to put it mildly, but Czechs have his sympathy.

    General Vlasov, Soviet Patriot
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/soviet-vlasov/

    Is Czechia the World’s Best Country?
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/czechia-best-country/

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Vlasov did not want to help the Czechs, his subordinates did.

    On May 6, 1945, Vlasov received a request from the commander of the first ROA division, General Sergei Bunyachenko, for permission to turn his weapons against the Nazi SS forces and aid Czech resistance fighters in the Prague uprising. Vlasov at first disapproved, then reluctantly allowed Bunyachenko to proceed.
     
    , @Mikhail
    Upon being captured by the Nazis, Vlasov and his overall core supporters didn't espouse a "Soviet patriot" position.

    The Czech politician Novotny and some others are using the ROA to tweak the present Russian government. Were they around today, I don't believe that Vlasov and his core support would side with the likes of Novotny against the current Russian government, while disagreeing with the Sovok view of Vlasov.

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/12/14/czech-russian-relations-and-the-roa-conflicting-historical-narratives/

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/16122019-czech-russian-relations-and-the-roa-conflicting-historical-narratives-analysis/

    https://orientalreview.org/2019/12/16/czech-russian-relations-and-the-roa-conflicting-historical-narratives/

    As noted, the ROCR and the late Solzhenitsyn haven't been especially hostile towards post-Soviet Russia. The ROCOR and Solzh have also been sympathetic towards the ROA.

  142. @AP
    Ukraine getting flooded with Africans "right now" or ever is as realistic as it being overrun by Leprechauns.

    IIRC you had claimed in 2014 that Ukraine would soon be flooded by Muslims and Africans. LOL.

    Now your outlandish predictions are placed 30 years in the future. So you are capable of some learning, at least.

    WNs have a long history of overpredicting catastrophe. I once read that George Lincoln Rockwell was predicting economic collapse by 1970, for instance. Whites have been demographically pummeled since 1970, but the economy only went from strength to strength.

    That said, I don’t believe Ukraine to be nearly as immune to negrification as you assert. Africans would prefer to go to western Europe, of course, but that’s not always available to them, so they’ll take whatever they can get. Some of them would presumably attempt to use Ukraine as a foot in the door, hoping to move farther west later on (not an unrealistic hope), and some portion of those will find it to their liking and stay put. Slow as it is, drip by drip, the bath tub still fills up.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    I am not a white nationalist.
  143. @Anatoly Karlin
    Demographics wise, whiter than Moscow obviously, though would be comparable if you equate Ukrainians with Tajiks and Kyrgyz.

    The stories are true, tons of subcons now. I'm an indophile so OK with that but AquariusAnon would be triggered living here.

    My assessment is that there are more Negroes than in Moscow, Moscow being the most Negrified Russian city. Though tiny in both absolute and relative terms nonetheless, ofc. For now

    Spent just an hour in center, so assessment is preliminary. Infrastructure is functional, comparable to Moscow, though ofc on much smaller scale, it being a smaller city. I would guess QoL in Moscow and Warszawa is comparable. My expectation (backed by stats) is that top tier Russian and Polish cities are comparable, but gulf appears amongst smaller cities and towns.

    The stories are true, tons of subcons now.

    What, as in British levels? I have to doubt it. Where I live, I can go three blocks and see nothing but subcons, and I bet in Britain’s it’s worse still.

  144. @Beckow

    ...Irish famine: much of the death toll was, if not “accidental,” certainly not “intentional” either.
     
    Motifs are never possible to ascertain. That is true for individuals and nations. How would we know? By asking? Or looking at results and assuming that they were intended? Or, the latest fad in the West, simply assigning motifs based on who you are? (That's actually a rediscovered ancient tribal custom.) None of it works, motivations are a mystery better left to the divine.

    Dzingischan, Attila, Ceasar, Charlemagne and similar historical mass murderers were proud of their motivations. But that is rare these days. "Cloaking selfishness and power with high-falutin’ moral indignation" is the norm, maybe it has something to do with the ever-metastizing Christian ideas, or possibly with enlightenment. Or women.

    Anglos bombed Germany into a fire-ball because they could. I am sure many among them also enjoyed it. As many Anglos in the 19th century enjoyed 'emptying of Ireland' and today would enjoy 'emptying of the vast Eurasian space', while simultaneously crying about how much they 'respect' or 'admire' the people or culture there. They do it because they can, and because it is good for them materially. They get very angry when realities on the ground keep them from doing it - that's when 'moral indignation' really kicks into high gear. We live through one of those times.

    Motifs are never possible to ascertain.

    Motives. Motifs are not at all impossible to ascertain.

  145. What types of subcons?

    Poles may not hate them because of common experience in UK but everyone knows Muslim are fucked.

  146. @Thulean Friend
    https://i.imgur.com/6kk5XhS.jpg

    And also if anybody in the world thinks that the kid is any kind of a voice of people here is a youtube of her mom from 2009 when she was in the eurovision tv show:

  147. @Thulean Friend
    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth. Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake? Sounds like humanity fits the classic definition of a virus if that were the case.

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we're essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us. Alternatively, that one group of humans will use a narrower AI against another group, but that would not be an AI problem. It is a problem with violent impulses of our own species. So much of this technological angst really misses the point that most of these problems revolve around human behaviour.

    What we’re essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us.

    What we fear is AI being cruel to us to any degree. Twenty years from now, if AI’s got me cooped up in solitary, I’m not going to comfort myself with the thought that at least this isn’t as cruel as humans at their worst.

  148. Cannabis better than tea coffee

  149. @songbird
    Putting aside the idea of societal decay - if we take as our standard the level of human capital that existed at the beginning of the space race - I think it would be possible and worthwhile to colonize Mars.

    Of course, this would be a very difficult endeavor, and it is entirely dependent on one completely untested factor: whether Martian gravity is sufficient for healthful human development. It might not be. Of course, there might be ways around it - gene mod or else centripetal trains to add the necessary component of gravity, only for pregnant women and people under 18 or so. But, I think if either of those things are necessary, it becomes more pie in the sky.

    There is also the possibility of building space habitats that spin to 1 G, but I consider that much more difficult.

    Some might find my vision of Mars depressing. No terraforming, just underground spaces - though some would be quite large, and there would be a public-spirited focus on gardens, parks, art, and recreation. Conservatively, I think several hundred million people could live on Mars. And they would be high IQ, so this might change what is possible for humans, regarding extra-solar colonization.

    Even if generation ships are impossible, there's still an old idea - spread the genes, by sending embryos and robots to look after them.

    Fake news. The athmosphere of Venus is a thousand times more hospitable and accessible to man than Mars.

    The facts that we’re talking about colonizing Mars instead of Venus means the whole ‘colonization’ thing is a charade to dupe dumb plebs into spending time on bullshit, the elites obviously have no plan to colonize anything whatsoever.

    • Replies: @utu
    "...colonization’ thing is a charade to dupe dumb plebs into spending time on bullshit, the elites obviously have no plan to colonize anything whatsoever." - The part of the project of filling up and clogging the limited mental space with garbage. For some the Odyssey of Kardashians and for other the Colonization of Mars. Kardashians are more real.
    , @songbird
    It is easier to get to Venus. That's why the Soviets did Venera. You could live on a giant zeppelin in Venus's atmosphere, fairly protected from space debris and some level of radiation, and close to Earth's gravity. But what would be the point? Venus's natural resources are virtually impossible to harvest. It has no water, unlike Mars. Maybe, these things can be fixed, but it is more pie in the sky, and would take a staggeringly enormous amount of energy. And, in principle, it is is better to live on a planet that is hard to get to.

    BTW, I'm not actually saying it is possible to colonize Mars now. I think we would need 1960s-level human capital, and all this parasitism (both resource and social parasitism) would need to be ended. So, in a sense, I do think Musk is laughable because he doesn't acknowledge these problems.

    Sure, talking about Mars is a distraction, but who claims to be so ascetic, as to live without distractions? (Being on Unz is a distraction.) Besides which, even in a political sense of basedness, one needs inspiring dreams. Maybe, you don't think a billion Europeans on Mars is inspiring, but I do.
  150. @Mr. XYZ
    "More than three times" is perfectly compatible with "four times".

    Mathematically yes, but in colloquial language, “3+ times” means something like “3-3.75 times.” If it were, say, 3.8 times or more (there is no exact boundary, but it’s roughly there), you would say that it was “almost 4 times” larger, unless you really didn’t know that it not only exceeded 3, but nearly reached 4. (Or, in the case of India’s population relative to the USA, actually exceeded 4, which is definitely over the point where “3+ times” is still used.)

    You can leave it without a reaction, or you can say a thank you there, but insisting you were correct just elicited this response from me, an autist.

  151. China commissioned its first fully domestically built aircraft carrier. It’s slightly larger than the Liaoning, the Kuznetsov-class first Chinese carrier. The Chinese are expected to build two more carriers, each successive one better and more developed than the previous. The next one (Type 002) will feature a CATOBAR system (probably already an electromagnetic one), while the one after that (Type 003) will probably already be nuclear propelled.

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1173837.shtml

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I don’t understand why they are speculating that China “might have” “5 or 6” carriers in the future. It’s pretty obvious that eventually they will try to match or exceed the US Navy.
    , @Blinky Bill
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3018487/does-russia-hold-key-chinas-first-nuclear-powered-aircraft

    Not a reliable source but interesting none the less.
  152. @reiner Tor
    China commissioned its first fully domestically built aircraft carrier. It’s slightly larger than the Liaoning, the Kuznetsov-class first Chinese carrier. The Chinese are expected to build two more carriers, each successive one better and more developed than the previous. The next one (Type 002) will feature a CATOBAR system (probably already an electromagnetic one), while the one after that (Type 003) will probably already be nuclear propelled.

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1173837.shtml

    I don’t understand why they are speculating that China “might have” “5 or 6” carriers in the future. It’s pretty obvious that eventually they will try to match or exceed the US Navy.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    I'm not a naval strategist but first of all, isn't the carrier a dead concept in a real war?

    It's basically a platform for bullying distant third world countries, but the owners have to rely on promising nuclear strikes if anyone hits back. Which the larger players can, at least to the point of disabling the ship.

    Second, perhaps carriers in peace time simply neutralize each other, in the sense that a Chinese carrier turning up near a US bullying point will make the air sorties and no fly zones and what not a lot harder to implement. But you don't need a one-for-one fleet to do that.
  153. @Thulean Friend

    When I speak of sufficient gravity, I am really talking about human anatomy and physiology.
     
    Same here. To live on Mars would be an eternal fight against your own biology to a much greater extent than on Earth in far harsher climate. That's why I am amused by people saying they would live on Mars. Going there for short visits or using it as a mining colony, sure. Actually living there? Our species evolved on planet Earth for a reason. In fact, unless there is an attraction on Mars which would be physically impossible to do on Earth and insanely cool, I would have no interest in visiting Mars (though I would want to go out in outer space when costs fall sufficiently to the level of an airline ticket).

    Potentially, Martian gravity would be enough to solve these problems, or make them solvable with slight tweaks – drugs or gene editing. But is it enough for normal cellular communication and development? For sperm to fertilize egg, for stem cells to differentiate and organize properly into different tissues and organs? For healthy babies to be born? For normal adolescence? For normal development of the brain?
     
    It would be more efficient to upload our conscousness to a machine instead and skip the half-hearted gene-editing step. Our bodies are just repositories of our minds anyway. We still do not understand the brain very well. Let's say we could copy our consciousness, would we be able to have two bodies (one physical and one machine) at once? And if so, would it cause any complications (such as shizophrenia)?

    It would be more efficient to upload our conscousness to a machine instead and skip the half-hearted gene-editing step. Our bodies are just repositories of our minds anyway.

    Your mind is pretty difficult to extract from your body. For example, being a coward means that the hormones rushing to your blood and brain change your consciousness in a way to compel you to do something else than you’d do in the absence of those hormones. Courage is, when either those hormones are not strong enough, or countermanded by some other hormones (like testosterone), or when your fear of something else (social death, death of a child, etc.) strengthens your resolve. Hormones also change your brain structure (for example by lifting weights, thus increasing testosterone levels in your blood, you’ll permanently alter your brain structure, so even if your testosterone levels fall back, you will still be more courageous, both physically and socially), how can you simulate such a thing? There are many other things, for example your positive and negative carnal experience (hunger, pain, cold, heat, orgasm, sweating, etc.) strongly influencing your behavior. The negative experience might affect you in a positive way, like overcoming pain or hunger can strengthen your resolve the next time.

    The “uploaded” versions of our minds will therefore be fundamentally different from our bodily selves, and thus they won’t be us in any meaningful sense of the word.

    It’s a pretty simplistic and incorrect description to say that our bodies are mere “repositories of our minds.”

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    In meditation, you can experience a still consciousness that is separate from your body's situation.

    The problem with this discussion about "uploading" your personality, or even recreating yourself biologically, is that it has no effect on you after your brain death.

    The fact some facsimile of yourself can continue to have an influence after you die, can have no effect on your life, which will no longer be there to know about it.

    People have been "uploading" their mind to an extent, for centuries already - by writing books that continue to be read by other minds after they die.

    For example, Sartre has "uploaded" much of his mind into books, and he writes in his autobiography that this was his dream as a child - to literally become a bookshelf . You can open a book of Sartre, and most of his views and personality is there "uploaded" in the text. But from his perspective it is irrelevant, as he is not even able to know that his "uploaded mind" will survive him (someone could have burned all his books the day after he had died, and it would make no difference for him).

  154. @AP

    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth.
     
    Are we "destroying" Earth? We are changing it, making some parts more livable and others less so. We are harming some species and helping others. And we are very much as part of the Earth.

    Even if something we do happens to be harmful or a mistake, given that since we are the only part of our planet that is conscious of the planet and capable of making decisions concerning it and capable of changing it (our planet's brain, so to speak) it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus. If someone chooses to do something harmful like smoke or drink excessively too regularly, one wouldn't think of his brain as some sort of harmful virus in the body, with the implication that it should be removed or shut down in order to help the body.

    Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake?
     
    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it. How can we possible "destroy" it if we change it so that it becomes capable of sustaining human life?

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we’re essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us.
     
    1. Why does that make it less concerning?

    2. Since AI is not conscious but merely mimics consciousness an AI replacement/destruction of humanity would be the end of planetary consciousness - as far as we know the only such thing in the universe - and a regression to a dumb, unreflective, world (albeit one that would involve processes not seen in the pre-human world, though no one would be around to appreciate that, or indeed anything else). This would be tragic.

    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it. How can we possible “destroy” it if we change it so that it becomes capable of sustaining human life?

    You poor fool, using reason to battle mental faggotry.

  155. @Thulean Friend
    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth. Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake? Sounds like humanity fits the classic definition of a virus if that were the case.

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we're essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us. Alternatively, that one group of humans will use a narrower AI against another group, but that would not be an AI problem. It is a problem with violent impulses of our own species. So much of this technological angst really misses the point that most of these problems revolve around human behaviour.

    Humans behave like any other living organisms. I resent the fact that cool animals (like the blue whale or the rhino) are disappearing, but let’s face it: invasive species have never shown the slightest concern for the local species they displaced or drove to extinction. It’s just life. Even if, of course, it’s far from inevitable that the blue whale should go extinct: we can probably prevent it.

    As to “destroying” Mars, it’s unclear what you mean by that. There’s nothing to be destroyed there, it’s just a piece of rock.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    As to “destroying” Mars, it’s unclear what you mean by that. There’s nothing to be destroyed there, it’s just a piece of rock.
     
    He's an environmentalist. Even if there was no such thing as pollution or carbon-based warming, I have no doubt I could find an environmentalist who'd claim burning fossil fuels is still somehow "hurting" the planet - like you were cutting the pinky toe off a human or something. FFS, greenies squeal to high heaven and chain themselves to trees, even though trees can easily be replanted. It's a totally different mindset.
    , @Dmitry

    Humans behave like any other .... It’s just life. ... it’s just a piece of rock.
     
    You're overdose a bit on cynicism - next you will be saying "your family are just carbon, hydrogen and oxygen", "love is just release of dopamine and serotonin", "music is just some vibrations of air" etc.

    There is not yet an atmosphere and ecosystem there to damage on Mars. But it is already undoubtedly something beautiful - a virgin and desolate world.

    Perhaps in some future centuries, some people will fuck it with badly designed terraforming, or military conflict, building nuclear power stations there (not really likely as that is already obsolete on earth, but perhaps something similar will emerge). Not that we will still be alive to see anything so exciting.

  156. What began as a nearly imperceptible shift after the re-election in May has now slowly progressed into a hurricane.

    I hope Amit Shah does not back down. CAB+NRC is of essential importance.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    They are giving India the China treatment. I've always found your honorary Indian posts enlightening. Please keep it up. I'm sure our new commentator Jatt Singh would agree. 😄

    PS for those who are interested Amit Shah is a Hindu.

  157. @silviosilver
    WNs have a long history of overpredicting catastrophe. I once read that George Lincoln Rockwell was predicting economic collapse by 1970, for instance. Whites have been demographically pummeled since 1970, but the economy only went from strength to strength.

    That said, I don't believe Ukraine to be nearly as immune to negrification as you assert. Africans would prefer to go to western Europe, of course, but that's not always available to them, so they'll take whatever they can get. Some of them would presumably attempt to use Ukraine as a foot in the door, hoping to move farther west later on (not an unrealistic hope), and some portion of those will find it to their liking and stay put. Slow as it is, drip by drip, the bath tub still fills up.

    I am not a white nationalist.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Never said you were. I wasn't replying to anything you said.
  158. @Beckow

    ...Irish famine: much of the death toll was, if not “accidental,” certainly not “intentional” either.
     
    Motifs are never possible to ascertain. That is true for individuals and nations. How would we know? By asking? Or looking at results and assuming that they were intended? Or, the latest fad in the West, simply assigning motifs based on who you are? (That's actually a rediscovered ancient tribal custom.) None of it works, motivations are a mystery better left to the divine.

    Dzingischan, Attila, Ceasar, Charlemagne and similar historical mass murderers were proud of their motivations. But that is rare these days. "Cloaking selfishness and power with high-falutin’ moral indignation" is the norm, maybe it has something to do with the ever-metastizing Christian ideas, or possibly with enlightenment. Or women.

    Anglos bombed Germany into a fire-ball because they could. I am sure many among them also enjoyed it. As many Anglos in the 19th century enjoyed 'emptying of Ireland' and today would enjoy 'emptying of the vast Eurasian space', while simultaneously crying about how much they 'respect' or 'admire' the people or culture there. They do it because they can, and because it is good for them materially. They get very angry when realities on the ground keep them from doing it - that's when 'moral indignation' really kicks into high gear. We live through one of those times.

    Motifs are never possible to ascertain.

    Technically speaking, this might be true, but often we can still prove intentions with a very high probability. We know that Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews as late as October 1941, because his policy was still facilitating their emigration from Europe. Certainly, if you want to kill someone, you are not going to compel him to move somewhere where you cannot kill him.

    Regarding the Irish, the British government did provide some relief to the starving people, but the response was slow and inadequate. We also have access to private papers like letters and journals, and there’s simply no evidence of any intent. It’s highly unlikely that there would be no evidence of it if they really had intent. It’s not so easy to simulate.

    Just as I’m sure that you really are a Slovak from Western Slovakia: theoretically, you could be a South Korean teenage girl whose hobby is to impersonate Slovak men online, but it’s just unlikely. You might distort some information, but not something like this.

    • Replies: @Nodwink
    I for one no longer buy into the notion of the Ruling Class being a bunch of bumbling, inept buffoons. I think they have a decent idea of what they are doing, most of the time.
    , @Beckow

    ... often we can still prove intentions with a very high probability.
     
    And often we can't. And 'prove' is way too strong term what you get when trying to assign motives in most historical circumstances.

    You blase dismissal of British responsibility for Irish famine seems to be based on not finding in 'letters and journals' someone saying 'let's starve the damn Fenians'. They forgot to put it in writing. Some Brits welcomed the famine, some only welcomed the results of the famine, some were compassionate, some were both. My point is that normal elites are accountable for what happens - their motives or bad luck are secondary.

    Hitler probably himself couldn't coherently describe his motives, in the morning he looked for ships to facilitate emigration, in the afternoon full of rage yelled 'killed them all'. People are like that, that's why motives are hard to ascertain. I am not only technically right, chasing motives is entertaining but a pointless exercise. It is about what actually happens, why is not for us to divine.
  159. @Thulean Friend
    I am not a white nationalist.

    Never said you were. I wasn’t replying to anything you said.

  160. @reiner Tor
    Humans behave like any other living organisms. I resent the fact that cool animals (like the blue whale or the rhino) are disappearing, but let’s face it: invasive species have never shown the slightest concern for the local species they displaced or drove to extinction. It’s just life. Even if, of course, it’s far from inevitable that the blue whale should go extinct: we can probably prevent it.

    As to “destroying” Mars, it’s unclear what you mean by that. There’s nothing to be destroyed there, it’s just a piece of rock.

    As to “destroying” Mars, it’s unclear what you mean by that. There’s nothing to be destroyed there, it’s just a piece of rock.

    He’s an environmentalist. Even if there was no such thing as pollution or carbon-based warming, I have no doubt I could find an environmentalist who’d claim burning fossil fuels is still somehow “hurting” the planet – like you were cutting the pinky toe off a human or something. FFS, greenies squeal to high heaven and chain themselves to trees, even though trees can easily be replanted. It’s a totally different mindset.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Imagine we were so advanced we had some way to "harness the energy of" supernovae. (Don't ask me how or what that means, just play along.) And then imagine we developed a way to cause supernovae so that we could harness their energy. Isn't it a sure bet environmentalists would start bellowing that we're "destroying the galaxy"?
  161. @silviosilver

    As to “destroying” Mars, it’s unclear what you mean by that. There’s nothing to be destroyed there, it’s just a piece of rock.
     
    He's an environmentalist. Even if there was no such thing as pollution or carbon-based warming, I have no doubt I could find an environmentalist who'd claim burning fossil fuels is still somehow "hurting" the planet - like you were cutting the pinky toe off a human or something. FFS, greenies squeal to high heaven and chain themselves to trees, even though trees can easily be replanted. It's a totally different mindset.

    Imagine we were so advanced we had some way to “harness the energy of” supernovae. (Don’t ask me how or what that means, just play along.) And then imagine we developed a way to cause supernovae so that we could harness their energy. Isn’t it a sure bet environmentalists would start bellowing that we’re “destroying the galaxy”?

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    We must achieve supernova parity, we cannot allow for a solar gap!
  162. In Britain it was reported yesterday that unemployment is at the lowest rate for over 40 years, and predictably pro-Brexit supporters and “right wingers” were celebrating this as a “victory” for Brexit.

    Yet if that is true, surely doesn’t that mean decades of mass immigration have actually had no adverse affect on the economy? Celebrating that news shows how fickle many on the “right” are, because it might be good news for their new hero Boris, but it actually makes the idea that mass immigration is a bad thing look rather stupid if it’s true.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    The Brexit drama seems to encourage emigration.

    https://twitter.com/__amadis/status/1206535125103763457
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Decades of immigration have not resulted in a (large) secular increase in unemployment because of Say's Law--supply creates its own demand.

    And where immigrants are not in the workforce (a common complaint among us), the benefits they receive are spent and stimulate aggregate demand.

    But this does not eliminate that immigration has an impact on the distribution of income, wealth, and public finances.

    Of course ultimately the most important arguments against immigration have nothing to do at all with money.

  163. @AP

    I mean it’s currently below Kosovo (if you count it as a state) and Moldova, it simply can’t stay that way
     
    It's not below Moldova.

    In 2018 Ukraine's per capita GDP PPP was $9,283 and Moldova's was $7,305. It's a big difference.

    In terms of nominal GDP per capita Moldova was at $3,218 and Ukraine at $2,963. This was because of the currency collapse. Russia also had a currency collapse and its nominal GDP per capita is lower than that of Argentina and Romania, and only slightly better than half that of Greece (in PPP terms Russia easily surpasses Argentina, surpasses Romania and is about even with Greece).

    However 2019 was a good year for Ukraine and its currency has strengthened, so on that measure it should surpass Moldova.

    Due to strengthening of hryvnia, average monthly wage in Ukraine was $456 per month in October 2019:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

    In July 2019 (latest figure) it was $430 in Moldova:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/moldova/wages

    :::::::::::::::::::::

    In comparison it is $534 in Belarus in October 2019:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/belarus/wages

    And $729 in Russia:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/wages

    And $1290 in Poland:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/poland/wages

    You can see why Ukrainians go to Poland rather than to Russia for work nowadays.

    Any recent figures for how many are in Poland and Russia? (including illegal immigration estimate, if possible)

    • Replies: @AP
    There are about 2 million Ukrainians in Poland at any given time (over 5% of Poland's population); about 200,000 have permanent status, the rest come and go. Not including Donbas refugees estimates of Ukrainians in Russia are in the mid 100,000s recently, a big drop.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/turning-muslims-away-poland-welcomes-ukrainians-11553598000

    Turning Muslims Away, Poland Welcomes Ukrainians



    WARSAW—Four and a half years ago, Maryna Karalop packed up and moved from Ukraine to Poland. Since then, so did some two million other Ukrainians—the biggest wave of migration into the European Union in recent times.

    Poland’s government has resisted EU quotas to take in asylum-seekers from Syria, Afghanistan and Eritrea whose arrival has reshaped European politics, fueling populist parties across the continent. At the same time, Warsaw rolled out the welcome mat for Ukrainians who sought a better life after the Russian invasion of 2014 precipitated an economic crisis.

    “I see my future here. It’s quiet, it’s comfortable, I like everything,” said Ms. Karalop, 40 years old, who with her husband now runs an employment agency in Warsaw that mostly caters to fellow Ukrainians. Her daughter, who is 14, has learned to speak fluent Polish and is enrolled in a local school.

    “The biggest reason we’re here is the future of our child,” Ms. Karalop said. “In Poland, all roads would be opened for her.”

    Poland issued more first-time residence permits to non-EU citizens than any other EU nation in 2017, with 86% of them going to Ukrainians, in the latest available European migration statistics. Those Ukrainians accounted for 18.7% of all newcomers to the entire EU.

    The influx, which continues unabated, is bringing a demographic transformation with long-term implications for Poland. The country of 38 million had virtually no ethnic minorities since World War II, when its huge Jewish community was largely wiped out by the Nazis and its borders were shifted westward, leaving ethnically mixed eastern regions in Soviet Ukraine and Belarus.

    The exodus also poses challenges for Ukraine, where mass emigration has become a campaign issue ahead of March 31 presidential elections. Yulia Tymoshenko, the former prime minister challenging President Petro Poroshenko, named this outflow as the second biggest danger facing Ukraine after the Russian military onslaught.

    “How much time do we have to close our eyes to the fact that a million Ukrainians leave the country each year? Three, two, five years? How much creative class do we still have left before we allow them all to leave?” she said at a security conference in Munich in February.

    Most other candidates agree on the need to bring Ukrainian workers back home—something that won’t happen until the country’s economy starts to recover.

    Poland faces a shortage of labor—and the country’s conservative government has favored Ukrainians because most are Christian, unlike Muslim immigrants from Syria or Afghanistan.

    “In Poland, there is a general consensus that we don’t want the kind of postcolonial Western style of immigration,” said Radoslaw Sikorski, a former parliament speaker and foreign minister who backs the more liberal opposition. “People think Christians are all right, and non-Christians are not all right, Christians will assimilate and the non-Christians won’t. It’s that simple.”

    Poland’s booming economy needs these workers because millions of working-age Poles—like millions of other Eastern Europeans—have taken advantage of EU freedom-of-movement rules over the past decade to seek better-paying jobs in the U.K., Germany and other Western European nations. The Ukrainians are coming to fill the resulting void, part of tectonic shifts in Europe’s demographic makeup.

    “In Poland, you don’t look for work, work looks for you,” said Artem Zozulia, head of the Ukraine Foundation, an organization that helps Ukrainian migrants integrate, in the southwestern city of Wroclaw. “In Ukraine, finding work is a job.”

    In Wroclaw, a city of 630,000 that Poland gained from Germany after World War II, some 90,000 Ukrainians arrived in recent years, local officials said, taking jobs that range from Uber drivers and construction workers to software developers.

    Ukrainians make up one-tenth of employees in the city’s 200 information-technology companies, said Ewa Kaucz, president of the Wroclaw Agglomeration Development Agency. “Without the Ukrainians, the situation on the labor market in Wroclaw would be dramatically worse,” she said.

    Ukrainian officials highlight the contribution that their citizens make to Poland’s growth, one of Europe’s fastest at 5.1% last year. “It is a large-scale phenomenon because the Polish economy now in many respects doesn’t just function, but also develops precisely because of the Ukrainians,” said Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin.

    While the shared history of Ukraine and Poland had many dark pages, so far the influx has been remarkably uncontroversial in Poland, with only a few fringe groups protesting.

    Polish government officials said there hasn’t been any significant increase in crime due to Ukrainian immigration, and few incidents of hate crimes. According to an opinion poll released this month, 52% of Poles have favorable feelings toward Ukrainian migrants, 36% are neutral and 12% are hostile.

    “I don’t have anything against the Ukrainians coming here—we are doing the same, going to other countries,” said Krzysztof Lematowicz, a logistics specialist from the Wroclaw area who was strolling through the city’s medieval main square on a break from his current job in the Netherlands. “In the Netherlands, I can see the difference between the Poles and the Dutch. But here, I can’t even spot who is a Ukrainian until they start talking.”

    Many Polish politicians and officials like to highlight common history and the close relationships between the two countries’ cultures, languages and cuisines. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth encompassed much of Ukraine and Belarus until the late 18th century, and the interwar Polish Republic included today’s western Ukraine.

    “There is a tradition in Poland of living together with Ukrainians and Belarusians,” said Slawomir Debski, director of the Polish Institute of International Affairs. “The tradition of a mono-ethnic Poland is relatively new, and it has two main contributors—Hitler and Stalin. People in Poland understand instinctively that these cultures can live peacefully together without upheavals.”

    Polish lawmaker Tomasz Rzymkowski agreed: “Our cultural differences are very small, and the roots of our nations are intertwined.”

    That history also had its share of bloodshed. Uprisings against Polish feudals feature prominently in Ukrainian literature. Ukrainian nationalists assassinated Poland’s interior minister in 1934. The worst came during World War II, when anti-Communist Ukrainian nationalists and Polish resistance fighters fought each other, and massacres abounded.

    Former Polish lawmaker Krzysztof Bosak, who is now vice president of the National Movement, a far-right anti-immigrant party, says that legacy is one reason why Ukrainian immigration should be curtailed.

    “It is a historical fact that we had a big Ukrainian minority, and even a majority in some regions. But there was no common tradition, and the tensions were very big. This is why we have two separate nations,” Mr. Bosak said.

    Though ties between the two governments are generally good today, the different interpretations of this painful past can still poison the relationship. That is especially so as Kiev and Warsaw are promoting historical narratives that whitewash inconvenient facts—and as Russia seeks to drive a wedge between its two neighbors.

    “The number of people in Poland with positive feelings about Ukraine has fallen in recent years,” cautioned historian Piotr Tyma, who heads the Union of Ukrainians in Poland, an association that represents the country’s Ukrainian minority. “It can very well turn out that this acceptance of the Ukrainian influx is temporary. If Poland’s economic conjuncture changes, the anti-Ukrainian voices will become louder.”
  164. @silviosilver
    Imagine we were so advanced we had some way to "harness the energy of" supernovae. (Don't ask me how or what that means, just play along.) And then imagine we developed a way to cause supernovae so that we could harness their energy. Isn't it a sure bet environmentalists would start bellowing that we're "destroying the galaxy"?

    We must achieve supernova parity, we cannot allow for a solar gap!

  165. @Epigon
    How many Poles are of Ukrainian descent / have the characteristic -uk, -ukov, -ko surnames?
    Any rough estimates? It has caught my attention recently, due to more frequent contacts with Poles and Polish companies.

    Or of Belarusian or Russian origin. Slavic surnames ending in ko aren’t necessarily Ukrainian in origin.

    I once corrected a Polish friend on Natalie Wood’s background.

    • Replies: @AP
    Slavic surnames ending in -enko are of central or eastern Ukrainian origin. The reason many Russians have this surname is because Ukrainians have been moving to Russia for 250 years. It just means that the particular Russian has some Ukrainian ancestor.

    Within Ukraine, there is a split in terms of frequency of the surname ending in -uk vs. -enko.

    In the parts of Ukraine that after 1650 remained part of Poland -uk is the most popular surname ending; in the the central and eastern parts that left Poland -enko is the most popular:

    -uk vs. -enko:

    https://i.imgur.com/cKhJrdN.png

    Map of Europe, 1700:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f9/6b/83/f96b83b99d322dc57e3130e6a5d96248.png
  166. @Lin
    Two questions regarding Russia; probably had been raised here before:
    1)Was Rasputin a victim of anglo/anti-semite warmongers ??!!
    The most important fact is the anglos wanted the Tzar Nick2 to keep fighting on their side in WW1 regardless how horrendous the casualties and damage done to Russia. Rasputin wanted peace but failed to persuade Nick2 and was hated by the anglo warring party. His murder was facilitated by the limey secret service. He was shot by the anglo secret agent Oswald Rayner and the russian homo prince Yusupov(who hosted Rasputin's Last Supper and was educated b4 WW1 in england.) Yusupov died peacefully in Paree at the ripe old age of 80 in 1967, 50 yrs after the russian commie revolution.

    https://youtu.be/bZObqTuk_Hs

    Rasputin was very sympathetic to the persecuted russian jewry

    http://www.jewishmag.com/160mag/grigory_rasputin/grigory_rasputin.htm

    According to Rasputin's daughter Maria, Yusupov made homosexual advances to Rasputin his father

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Rasputin

    2)How gay was Tchaikovsky?
    I read he once attempted suicide because he couldn't handle the mental trauma. And he was onced married trying to cover it up.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/08/sorry-russia-tchaikovsky-was-definitely-gay/311805/

    But did he get regular queer partners or just his life style experimentation? My impression if he was a 'top', he probably did not get the longer lasting addictive prostate stimuli(Yes, I call it the 'Lawrence of Arabia syndrome' )
    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/sep/18/tchaikovsky-not-gay-russian-minister.
    Seems he did mention in his diary he would shut people's mouth by getting married

    It seems the best musicians are either severely mentally ill or sexual deviants, sometimes both

    • Replies: @Swedish Family

    It seems the best musicians are either severely mentally ill or sexual deviants, sometimes both
     
    Or deeply religious, which is surely the commonest way.
  167. @reiner Tor
    I don’t understand why they are speculating that China “might have” “5 or 6” carriers in the future. It’s pretty obvious that eventually they will try to match or exceed the US Navy.

    I’m not a naval strategist but first of all, isn’t the carrier a dead concept in a real war?

    It’s basically a platform for bullying distant third world countries, but the owners have to rely on promising nuclear strikes if anyone hits back. Which the larger players can, at least to the point of disabling the ship.

    Second, perhaps carriers in peace time simply neutralize each other, in the sense that a Chinese carrier turning up near a US bullying point will make the air sorties and no fly zones and what not a lot harder to implement. But you don’t need a one-for-one fleet to do that.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Either it is, or it isn’t. There’s no way to know, because such a war hasn’t been tried for three quarters of a century. Carriers move, and their exact location is hard to find. Even the fastest missiles launched from nearby need maybe ten minutes of flight (and it’s not like their launchers are not in danger at that distance from a carrier), and it’s enough for a moving and maneuvering carrier to change its location enough that the missile cannot find or at least hit it.

    The most likely outcome is that the carriers will sustain losses (some of them will be destroyed or incapacitated), but they will keep being dangerous beasts and inflict heavy losses on the opponents. There will also be theaters where their presence will be more threatening than elsewhere, much like how a couple of German battleships were still dangerous for British shipping in the North Sea (close to land-based air power), while battleships played a more subordinate role in the Pacific.

    But carriers might be way less obsolete than battleships were in the early 1940s. It’s possible that they will still be the backbone of the strongest fleets in a real big naval war, and that without them any fleet is still half useless and condemned to operations close to the shore.

    What’s clear is that they can see way farther than other ships and less reliant on satellites (which may be less reliable in a war than is often believed), and they are obviously nearly as very vulnerable to enemy air power as other ships are.
    , @neutral

    I’m not a naval strategist but first of all, isn’t the carrier a dead concept in a real war?
     
    Yes, because a war major war would involve nuclear weapons. Would anyone be concerned about whether some carriers are sunk or not if major cities are destroyed and a big percentage of the population has died?
  168. @Mitleser
    Why should we focus on other planets?

    https://twitter.com/mr_scientism/status/1126966828461379584

    Elysium was one of the best movies of recent years.

  169. @reiner Tor

    Motifs are never possible to ascertain.
     
    Technically speaking, this might be true, but often we can still prove intentions with a very high probability. We know that Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews as late as October 1941, because his policy was still facilitating their emigration from Europe. Certainly, if you want to kill someone, you are not going to compel him to move somewhere where you cannot kill him.

    Regarding the Irish, the British government did provide some relief to the starving people, but the response was slow and inadequate. We also have access to private papers like letters and journals, and there’s simply no evidence of any intent. It’s highly unlikely that there would be no evidence of it if they really had intent. It’s not so easy to simulate.

    Just as I’m sure that you really are a Slovak from Western Slovakia: theoretically, you could be a South Korean teenage girl whose hobby is to impersonate Slovak men online, but it’s just unlikely. You might distort some information, but not something like this.

    I for one no longer buy into the notion of the Ruling Class being a bunch of bumbling, inept buffoons. I think they have a decent idea of what they are doing, most of the time.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The lower members of the elite with whom I have contact have certainly not thought much about politics. They have a combination of their hard (very short term) interests (like lower taxes and regulations), some vague idea of an ideology (“racism is bad”) and occasionally a strong sense of ethnic interests (for Jews and similar people) in mind when thinking about politics. Pretty murky, and then they also have a herd instinct, except their reference herd is other millionaires. All this pushes them into some vaguely center-left or center-right positions, depending on certain personal circumstances, inclinations and quirks. They certainly didn’t seem smarter in politics than the upper middle class, which in turn doesn’t seem smarter than the lower rungs of the middle class or the working class.
  170. @another anon
    Indeed. Vlasov and Vlasovites are now suddenly back in the breaking news.
    What happened?

    Small Czech village near Prague decided to build memorial honoring soldiers of Vlasov army. When Russian media protested, mayor declared war against Russia and threatened to hang Russian foreign minister.

    https://twitter.com/AmbRusCz/status/1204744026903199746

    https://twitter.com/A_Gasparyan/status/1204732527300300802

    https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/domaci/pavel-novotny-starosta-reporyje-rusko-reporteri-sergej-lavrov-zive-vysilani.A191216_125326_domaci_chtl

    (use google translate)

    Any comments?

    AK is not fan of Vlasov, to put it mildly, but Czechs have his sympathy.

    General Vlasov, Soviet Patriot
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/soviet-vlasov/

    Is Czechia the World's Best Country?
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/czechia-best-country/

    Vlasov did not want to help the Czechs, his subordinates did.

    On May 6, 1945, Vlasov received a request from the commander of the first ROA division, General Sergei Bunyachenko, for permission to turn his weapons against the Nazi SS forces and aid Czech resistance fighters in the Prague uprising. Vlasov at first disapproved, then reluctantly allowed Bunyachenko to proceed.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    As accounted, Vlasov was at first hesitate, only to then agree.
  171. @Pericles
    I'm not a naval strategist but first of all, isn't the carrier a dead concept in a real war?

    It's basically a platform for bullying distant third world countries, but the owners have to rely on promising nuclear strikes if anyone hits back. Which the larger players can, at least to the point of disabling the ship.

    Second, perhaps carriers in peace time simply neutralize each other, in the sense that a Chinese carrier turning up near a US bullying point will make the air sorties and no fly zones and what not a lot harder to implement. But you don't need a one-for-one fleet to do that.

    Either it is, or it isn’t. There’s no way to know, because such a war hasn’t been tried for three quarters of a century. Carriers move, and their exact location is hard to find. Even the fastest missiles launched from nearby need maybe ten minutes of flight (and it’s not like their launchers are not in danger at that distance from a carrier), and it’s enough for a moving and maneuvering carrier to change its location enough that the missile cannot find or at least hit it.

    The most likely outcome is that the carriers will sustain losses (some of them will be destroyed or incapacitated), but they will keep being dangerous beasts and inflict heavy losses on the opponents. There will also be theaters where their presence will be more threatening than elsewhere, much like how a couple of German battleships were still dangerous for British shipping in the North Sea (close to land-based air power), while battleships played a more subordinate role in the Pacific.

    But carriers might be way less obsolete than battleships were in the early 1940s. It’s possible that they will still be the backbone of the strongest fleets in a real big naval war, and that without them any fleet is still half useless and condemned to operations close to the shore.

    What’s clear is that they can see way farther than other ships and less reliant on satellites (which may be less reliable in a war than is often believed), and they are obviously nearly as very vulnerable to enemy air power as other ships are.

    • Replies: @Jatt Desi
    https://twitter.com/handle_anonymus/status/846774016069124098
    https://twitter.com/handle_anonymus/status/841897452986867713

    Tldr Carriers increase the strike distance of a fleet by being able to fly aircraft out 100s of kms from the position of ships.

    They are still very relevant and the USA as a war time economy would be v formidable.

    As we enter a new cold war and see increased MIC autarky you'll see carriers around for awhile.

    War on the rocks has a couple articles on the utility of drones for resupply & ordanance ops vs F-35
    Also on the concept of a Drone carrier or sub deployed to sea.

    Basically, if the only job of a ship is to deliver ordnance (missiles) then obviously the air-wing of a carrier could carry many more, and much further.
  172. @Nodwink
    I for one no longer buy into the notion of the Ruling Class being a bunch of bumbling, inept buffoons. I think they have a decent idea of what they are doing, most of the time.

    The lower members of the elite with whom I have contact have certainly not thought much about politics. They have a combination of their hard (very short term) interests (like lower taxes and regulations), some vague idea of an ideology (“racism is bad”) and occasionally a strong sense of ethnic interests (for Jews and similar people) in mind when thinking about politics. Pretty murky, and then they also have a herd instinct, except their reference herd is other millionaires. All this pushes them into some vaguely center-left or center-right positions, depending on certain personal circumstances, inclinations and quirks. They certainly didn’t seem smarter in politics than the upper middle class, which in turn doesn’t seem smarter than the lower rungs of the middle class or the working class.

    • Agree: Swedish Family
    • Replies: @Jatt Desi
    Yeah they have slightly higher avg competency & time preference so they get ahead a little bit more.
    They may also have less members who 'drop out' of society due to impulse control issues like jail time or drug use.

    Exceptional individuals rising out of these classes have a much deeper net of social capital to draw upon to go somewhere.

    Beyond that, yeah they're just normies and more likely to be 'convinced' of the prevailing ideology because the herd is putting them in a frontal top tier position.
  173. @Europe Europa
    In Britain it was reported yesterday that unemployment is at the lowest rate for over 40 years, and predictably pro-Brexit supporters and "right wingers" were celebrating this as a "victory" for Brexit.

    Yet if that is true, surely doesn't that mean decades of mass immigration have actually had no adverse affect on the economy? Celebrating that news shows how fickle many on the "right" are, because it might be good news for their new hero Boris, but it actually makes the idea that mass immigration is a bad thing look rather stupid if it's true.

    The Brexit drama seems to encourage emigration.

    https://twitter.com/__amadis/status/1206535125103763457

  174. @Anatoly Karlin
    So that's where the Tuatha'an - the Traveling People - came from.

    Ironic how Robert Jordan made them gypsy like pacifists instead.

    Amusing. Never noticed that connection. He must have lifted the name and little else.

  175. @another anon
    Indeed. Vlasov and Vlasovites are now suddenly back in the breaking news.
    What happened?

    Small Czech village near Prague decided to build memorial honoring soldiers of Vlasov army. When Russian media protested, mayor declared war against Russia and threatened to hang Russian foreign minister.

    https://twitter.com/AmbRusCz/status/1204744026903199746

    https://twitter.com/A_Gasparyan/status/1204732527300300802

    https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/domaci/pavel-novotny-starosta-reporyje-rusko-reporteri-sergej-lavrov-zive-vysilani.A191216_125326_domaci_chtl

    (use google translate)

    Any comments?

    AK is not fan of Vlasov, to put it mildly, but Czechs have his sympathy.

    General Vlasov, Soviet Patriot
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/soviet-vlasov/

    Is Czechia the World's Best Country?
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/czechia-best-country/

    Upon being captured by the Nazis, Vlasov and his overall core supporters didn’t espouse a “Soviet patriot” position.

    The Czech politician Novotny and some others are using the ROA to tweak the present Russian government. Were they around today, I don’t believe that Vlasov and his core support would side with the likes of Novotny against the current Russian government, while disagreeing with the Sovok view of Vlasov.

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/12/14/czech-russian-relations-and-the-roa-conflicting-historical-narratives/

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/16122019-czech-russian-relations-and-the-roa-conflicting-historical-narratives-analysis/

    https://orientalreview.org/2019/12/16/czech-russian-relations-and-the-roa-conflicting-historical-narratives/

    As noted, the ROCR and the late Solzhenitsyn haven’t been especially hostile towards post-Soviet Russia. The ROCOR and Solzh have also been sympathetic towards the ROA.

    • Replies: @another anon
    Now, this guy declared war on China too.

    https://twitter.com/PavelNovotnak/status/1208750193094643713

    https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/domaci/pavel-novotny-starosta-reporyje-vlajka-hongkong-cina-protesty-podpora.A191223_181911_domaci_pmk

    Řeporyje über alles!

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Praha-%C5%98eporyje_znak.jpg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%98eporyje

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMPugEgWoAA2QEP.jpg
  176. @Mitleser
    Vlasov did not want to help the Czechs, his subordinates did.

    On May 6, 1945, Vlasov received a request from the commander of the first ROA division, General Sergei Bunyachenko, for permission to turn his weapons against the Nazi SS forces and aid Czech resistance fighters in the Prague uprising. Vlasov at first disapproved, then reluctantly allowed Bunyachenko to proceed.
     

    As accounted, Vlasov was at first hesitate, only to then agree.

  177. @songbird
    My favorite single Irish story is the Táin Bó Cúailnge. Particularly, the tragic version, where Cú Chulainn dies, at the end. The image of him tied to the standing stone, with the raven perched above him is the greatest national iconography of which I can think.

    There is something timeless about the fight for cattle. A bit over 500 years ago, one crafty fellow, who I believe was one of my ancestors made such a raid. Being pursued, he turned on his pursuers and killed about 20 of them. I imagine it wasn't him alone, but also his sons and retainers. Of course, I connect to him in rather a zig zag way, and there are countless such references in the annals of Ireland.

    Indeed, the imagery is fantastic. In general a lot of out ancient stories seem to be very vivid and often carry a melancholic theme. Just think of Oisin and Niamh in Tir na nOg, or the Children of Lir.

    You probably know this but there’s a large bronze statue of the dying Cu Chulainn with the raven perched on him in the GPO. Oddly enough this pagan iconography was commissioned by De Valera who was a devout Catholic. One of the few things he did right.

    • Agree: songbird
  178. @reiner Tor
    Either it is, or it isn’t. There’s no way to know, because such a war hasn’t been tried for three quarters of a century. Carriers move, and their exact location is hard to find. Even the fastest missiles launched from nearby need maybe ten minutes of flight (and it’s not like their launchers are not in danger at that distance from a carrier), and it’s enough for a moving and maneuvering carrier to change its location enough that the missile cannot find or at least hit it.

    The most likely outcome is that the carriers will sustain losses (some of them will be destroyed or incapacitated), but they will keep being dangerous beasts and inflict heavy losses on the opponents. There will also be theaters where their presence will be more threatening than elsewhere, much like how a couple of German battleships were still dangerous for British shipping in the North Sea (close to land-based air power), while battleships played a more subordinate role in the Pacific.

    But carriers might be way less obsolete than battleships were in the early 1940s. It’s possible that they will still be the backbone of the strongest fleets in a real big naval war, and that without them any fleet is still half useless and condemned to operations close to the shore.

    What’s clear is that they can see way farther than other ships and less reliant on satellites (which may be less reliable in a war than is often believed), and they are obviously nearly as very vulnerable to enemy air power as other ships are.

    Tldr Carriers increase the strike distance of a fleet by being able to fly aircraft out 100s of kms from the position of ships.

    They are still very relevant and the USA as a war time economy would be v formidable.

    As we enter a new cold war and see increased MIC autarky you’ll see carriers around for awhile.

    War on the rocks has a couple articles on the utility of drones for resupply & ordanance ops vs F-35
    Also on the concept of a Drone carrier or sub deployed to sea.

    Basically, if the only job of a ship is to deliver ordnance (missiles) then obviously the air-wing of a carrier could carry many more, and much further.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I largely agree with it, but I think he might overstate his case. While finding a carrier might be difficult, its approximate location can probably be discovered, after which there are certain methods to target it. (More specifically there are low orbit short-lived satellites, which could be launched quickly on short notice.) I’m not claiming such methods will invariably work, but we cannot dismiss them with any certainty either.
  179. @reiner Tor
    The lower members of the elite with whom I have contact have certainly not thought much about politics. They have a combination of their hard (very short term) interests (like lower taxes and regulations), some vague idea of an ideology (“racism is bad”) and occasionally a strong sense of ethnic interests (for Jews and similar people) in mind when thinking about politics. Pretty murky, and then they also have a herd instinct, except their reference herd is other millionaires. All this pushes them into some vaguely center-left or center-right positions, depending on certain personal circumstances, inclinations and quirks. They certainly didn’t seem smarter in politics than the upper middle class, which in turn doesn’t seem smarter than the lower rungs of the middle class or the working class.

    Yeah they have slightly higher avg competency & time preference so they get ahead a little bit more.
    They may also have less members who ‘drop out’ of society due to impulse control issues like jail time or drug use.

    Exceptional individuals rising out of these classes have a much deeper net of social capital to draw upon to go somewhere.

    Beyond that, yeah they’re just normies and more likely to be ‘convinced’ of the prevailing ideology because the herd is putting them in a frontal top tier position.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  180. AP says:
    @Korenchkin
    Any recent figures for how many are in Poland and Russia? (including illegal immigration estimate, if possible)

    There are about 2 million Ukrainians in Poland at any given time (over 5% of Poland’s population); about 200,000 have permanent status, the rest come and go. Not including Donbas refugees estimates of Ukrainians in Russia are in the mid 100,000s recently, a big drop.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/turning-muslims-away-poland-welcomes-ukrainians-11553598000

    Turning Muslims Away, Poland Welcomes Ukrainians

    [MORE]

    WARSAW—Four and a half years ago, Maryna Karalop packed up and moved from Ukraine to Poland. Since then, so did some two million other Ukrainians—the biggest wave of migration into the European Union in recent times.

    Poland’s government has resisted EU quotas to take in asylum-seekers from Syria, Afghanistan and Eritrea whose arrival has reshaped European politics, fueling populist parties across the continent. At the same time, Warsaw rolled out the welcome mat for Ukrainians who sought a better life after the Russian invasion of 2014 precipitated an economic crisis.

    “I see my future here. It’s quiet, it’s comfortable, I like everything,” said Ms. Karalop, 40 years old, who with her husband now runs an employment agency in Warsaw that mostly caters to fellow Ukrainians. Her daughter, who is 14, has learned to speak fluent Polish and is enrolled in a local school.

    “The biggest reason we’re here is the future of our child,” Ms. Karalop said. “In Poland, all roads would be opened for her.”

    Poland issued more first-time residence permits to non-EU citizens than any other EU nation in 2017, with 86% of them going to Ukrainians, in the latest available European migration statistics. Those Ukrainians accounted for 18.7% of all newcomers to the entire EU.

    The influx, which continues unabated, is bringing a demographic transformation with long-term implications for Poland. The country of 38 million had virtually no ethnic minorities since World War II, when its huge Jewish community was largely wiped out by the Nazis and its borders were shifted westward, leaving ethnically mixed eastern regions in Soviet Ukraine and Belarus.

    The exodus also poses challenges for Ukraine, where mass emigration has become a campaign issue ahead of March 31 presidential elections. Yulia Tymoshenko, the former prime minister challenging President Petro Poroshenko, named this outflow as the second biggest danger facing Ukraine after the Russian military onslaught.

    “How much time do we have to close our eyes to the fact that a million Ukrainians leave the country each year? Three, two, five years? How much creative class do we still have left before we allow them all to leave?” she said at a security conference in Munich in February.

    Most other candidates agree on the need to bring Ukrainian workers back home—something that won’t happen until the country’s economy starts to recover.

    Poland faces a shortage of labor—and the country’s conservative government has favored Ukrainians because most are Christian, unlike Muslim immigrants from Syria or Afghanistan.

    “In Poland, there is a general consensus that we don’t want the kind of postcolonial Western style of immigration,” said Radoslaw Sikorski, a former parliament speaker and foreign minister who backs the more liberal opposition. “People think Christians are all right, and non-Christians are not all right, Christians will assimilate and the non-Christians won’t. It’s that simple.”

    Poland’s booming economy needs these workers because millions of working-age Poles—like millions of other Eastern Europeans—have taken advantage of EU freedom-of-movement rules over the past decade to seek better-paying jobs in the U.K., Germany and other Western European nations. The Ukrainians are coming to fill the resulting void, part of tectonic shifts in Europe’s demographic makeup.

    “In Poland, you don’t look for work, work looks for you,” said Artem Zozulia, head of the Ukraine Foundation, an organization that helps Ukrainian migrants integrate, in the southwestern city of Wroclaw. “In Ukraine, finding work is a job.”

    In Wroclaw, a city of 630,000 that Poland gained from Germany after World War II, some 90,000 Ukrainians arrived in recent years, local officials said, taking jobs that range from Uber drivers and construction workers to software developers.

    Ukrainians make up one-tenth of employees in the city’s 200 information-technology companies, said Ewa Kaucz, president of the Wroclaw Agglomeration Development Agency. “Without the Ukrainians, the situation on the labor market in Wroclaw would be dramatically worse,” she said.

    Ukrainian officials highlight the contribution that their citizens make to Poland’s growth, one of Europe’s fastest at 5.1% last year. “It is a large-scale phenomenon because the Polish economy now in many respects doesn’t just function, but also develops precisely because of the Ukrainians,” said Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin.

    While the shared history of Ukraine and Poland had many dark pages, so far the influx has been remarkably uncontroversial in Poland, with only a few fringe groups protesting.

    Polish government officials said there hasn’t been any significant increase in crime due to Ukrainian immigration, and few incidents of hate crimes. According to an opinion poll released this month, 52% of Poles have favorable feelings toward Ukrainian migrants, 36% are neutral and 12% are hostile.

    “I don’t have anything against the Ukrainians coming here—we are doing the same, going to other countries,” said Krzysztof Lematowicz, a logistics specialist from the Wroclaw area who was strolling through the city’s medieval main square on a break from his current job in the Netherlands. “In the Netherlands, I can see the difference between the Poles and the Dutch. But here, I can’t even spot who is a Ukrainian until they start talking.”

    Many Polish politicians and officials like to highlight common history and the close relationships between the two countries’ cultures, languages and cuisines. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth encompassed much of Ukraine and Belarus until the late 18th century, and the interwar Polish Republic included today’s western Ukraine.

    “There is a tradition in Poland of living together with Ukrainians and Belarusians,” said Slawomir Debski, director of the Polish Institute of International Affairs. “The tradition of a mono-ethnic Poland is relatively new, and it has two main contributors—Hitler and Stalin. People in Poland understand instinctively that these cultures can live peacefully together without upheavals.”

    Polish lawmaker Tomasz Rzymkowski agreed: “Our cultural differences are very small, and the roots of our nations are intertwined.”

    That history also had its share of bloodshed. Uprisings against Polish feudals feature prominently in Ukrainian literature. Ukrainian nationalists assassinated Poland’s interior minister in 1934. The worst came during World War II, when anti-Communist Ukrainian nationalists and Polish resistance fighters fought each other, and massacres abounded.

    Former Polish lawmaker Krzysztof Bosak, who is now vice president of the National Movement, a far-right anti-immigrant party, says that legacy is one reason why Ukrainian immigration should be curtailed.

    “It is a historical fact that we had a big Ukrainian minority, and even a majority in some regions. But there was no common tradition, and the tensions were very big. This is why we have two separate nations,” Mr. Bosak said.

    Though ties between the two governments are generally good today, the different interpretations of this painful past can still poison the relationship. That is especially so as Kiev and Warsaw are promoting historical narratives that whitewash inconvenient facts—and as Russia seeks to drive a wedge between its two neighbors.

    “The number of people in Poland with positive feelings about Ukraine has fallen in recent years,” cautioned historian Piotr Tyma, who heads the Union of Ukrainians in Poland, an association that represents the country’s Ukrainian minority. “It can very well turn out that this acceptance of the Ukrainian influx is temporary. If Poland’s economic conjuncture changes, the anti-Ukrainian voices will become louder.”

  181. @Mikhail
    Or of Belarusian or Russian origin. Slavic surnames ending in ko aren't necessarily Ukrainian in origin.

    I once corrected a Polish friend on Natalie Wood's background.

    Slavic surnames ending in -enko are of central or eastern Ukrainian origin. The reason many Russians have this surname is because Ukrainians have been moving to Russia for 250 years. It just means that the particular Russian has some Ukrainian ancestor.

    Within Ukraine, there is a split in terms of frequency of the surname ending in -uk vs. -enko.

    In the parts of Ukraine that after 1650 remained part of Poland -uk is the most popular surname ending; in the the central and eastern parts that left Poland -enko is the most popular:

    -uk vs. -enko:

    Map of Europe, 1700:

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Interestingly enough, this map appears to be a good approximation of where the front lines might have ultimately ended up in Ukraine had Yanukovych managed to crush the Maidan in 2013-2014 and western Ukraine would have subsequently decided to rebel by arguing that Yanukovych has lost his legitimacy to rule Ukraine. In such a scenario, Vinnytsia and Zhytomyr might be the equivalents of Sloviansk and Mariupol in real life. In such a scenario, Kiev would likely be on tight lock-down by the pro-Yanukovych forces after the Maidan in this scenario gets crushed.
  182. @Jatt Desi
    https://twitter.com/handle_anonymus/status/846774016069124098
    https://twitter.com/handle_anonymus/status/841897452986867713

    Tldr Carriers increase the strike distance of a fleet by being able to fly aircraft out 100s of kms from the position of ships.

    They are still very relevant and the USA as a war time economy would be v formidable.

    As we enter a new cold war and see increased MIC autarky you'll see carriers around for awhile.

    War on the rocks has a couple articles on the utility of drones for resupply & ordanance ops vs F-35
    Also on the concept of a Drone carrier or sub deployed to sea.

    Basically, if the only job of a ship is to deliver ordnance (missiles) then obviously the air-wing of a carrier could carry many more, and much further.

    I largely agree with it, but I think he might overstate his case. While finding a carrier might be difficult, its approximate location can probably be discovered, after which there are certain methods to target it. (More specifically there are low orbit short-lived satellites, which could be launched quickly on short notice.) I’m not claiming such methods will invariably work, but we cannot dismiss them with any certainty either.

  183. @Pericles
    I'm not a naval strategist but first of all, isn't the carrier a dead concept in a real war?

    It's basically a platform for bullying distant third world countries, but the owners have to rely on promising nuclear strikes if anyone hits back. Which the larger players can, at least to the point of disabling the ship.

    Second, perhaps carriers in peace time simply neutralize each other, in the sense that a Chinese carrier turning up near a US bullying point will make the air sorties and no fly zones and what not a lot harder to implement. But you don't need a one-for-one fleet to do that.

    I’m not a naval strategist but first of all, isn’t the carrier a dead concept in a real war?

    Yes, because a war major war would involve nuclear weapons. Would anyone be concerned about whether some carriers are sunk or not if major cities are destroyed and a big percentage of the population has died?

    • Replies: @songbird
    I'm a carrier skeptic. Admittedly, they are cool hardware, but so were battleships.

    Two battleships were used in Desert Storm. They could fire 16-inch shells at least 20 miles. Drones assisted with targeting. They had tomahawk cruise missiles for more distant targets. They hosted helicopters, as well as other ordinance. The Iraqis fired an anti-ship missile at one, and due to countermeasures, it missed the mark. Some Iraqis even surrendered to one via the drone.

    Those were old WW2-era battleships retro-fitted in the early 1980s, and they used WW2-era shells. If you designed one from the ground up today, I'll bet you could make one far superior. I even think battleships might be inherently superior to carriers. Plenty of power to atomize Somali pirates, and make the seas safe, but without the intoxicating capability to encourage nation-building in darkest Africa.

    That said, battleships are a joke because they aren't the status symbol that carriers are. A lot of nations had battleships. Relatively few ever had carriers, and none ever had so many as the US. They symbolize wealth, and the ability of the US to keep the sea lanes open. Most nuclear powers probably couldn't manage that as separate entities, and that is a big part of the reason so many countries kowtow to the US.

    China wants to be the top of its own hierarchy. Not to mention, the US is becoming a banana-republic, and its future peacekeeping abilities are unclear, so there are rational reasons for wanting carriers, even if they are essentially white elephants when it comes to conflict between real powers.
  184. @Europe Europa
    In Britain it was reported yesterday that unemployment is at the lowest rate for over 40 years, and predictably pro-Brexit supporters and "right wingers" were celebrating this as a "victory" for Brexit.

    Yet if that is true, surely doesn't that mean decades of mass immigration have actually had no adverse affect on the economy? Celebrating that news shows how fickle many on the "right" are, because it might be good news for their new hero Boris, but it actually makes the idea that mass immigration is a bad thing look rather stupid if it's true.

    Decades of immigration have not resulted in a (large) secular increase in unemployment because of Say’s Law–supply creates its own demand.

    And where immigrants are not in the workforce (a common complaint among us), the benefits they receive are spent and stimulate aggregate demand.

    But this does not eliminate that immigration has an impact on the distribution of income, wealth, and public finances.

    Of course ultimately the most important arguments against immigration have nothing to do at all with money.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  185. @AP

    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth.
     
    Are we "destroying" Earth? We are changing it, making some parts more livable and others less so. We are harming some species and helping others. And we are very much as part of the Earth.

    Even if something we do happens to be harmful or a mistake, given that since we are the only part of our planet that is conscious of the planet and capable of making decisions concerning it and capable of changing it (our planet's brain, so to speak) it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus. If someone chooses to do something harmful like smoke or drink excessively too regularly, one wouldn't think of his brain as some sort of harmful virus in the body, with the implication that it should be removed or shut down in order to help the body.

    Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake?
     
    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it. How can we possible "destroy" it if we change it so that it becomes capable of sustaining human life?

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we’re essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us.
     
    1. Why does that make it less concerning?

    2. Since AI is not conscious but merely mimics consciousness an AI replacement/destruction of humanity would be the end of planetary consciousness - as far as we know the only such thing in the universe - and a regression to a dumb, unreflective, world (albeit one that would involve processes not seen in the pre-human world, though no one would be around to appreciate that, or indeed anything else). This would be tragic.

    Are we “destroying” Earth?

    Yes.

    it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus

    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration. Microplastics is for instance almost entirely due to human pollution and the problem is just increasing. You are giving humanity enormous amounts of slack.

    Mars has no life.

    I was responding to your terraforming hypothetical. If we make Earth harder and harder to inhabit and simply escape to Mars without fixing the root causes what makes you think we won’t repeat the same mistakes on Mars and then try to find a new planet, and then a new one, and then a one, and so on. Perhaps virus was the wrong word for such behaviour and parasite would be more fitting.

    Since AI is not conscious

    For now. The fear is about AI is really about AGI.

    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There’s no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.

    Furthermore, given the strong likelihood of the simulation hypothesis being true, even being concerned at all could be spectacularly and comically irrational.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson


    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration. Microplastics is for instance almost entirely due to human pollution and the problem is just increasing. You are giving humanity enormous amounts of slack.
     
    You are privileging things other than humanity. Pagan, animistic nature worship.

    Environmental degradation is bad because we live here. Microplastics, for instance, are endrocrine disruptors. Even if we were able to avoid consuming them directly (which we're not) we end up exposed owing to bioaccumulation.

    If we do not exist, the Earth is irrelevant.


    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There’s no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.
     
    Looks like I was right all along. You should be shot. After all, there's no moral reason for you to care about your own survival other than narrow selfish ones.
    , @silviosilver

    Yes.
     
    Baseless envirofag scaremongering. I greatly enjoyed reading Bjorn Lomborg's "The Skeptical Environmentalist." Naturally, envirofags had a fit when it came out and they resorted to their usual character assassination tactics, but Lomborg's expose of ludicrous envirofag catastrophizing - none of which, needless to say, ever panned out - alerted me to what shameless lying sacks of shit envirofags are. I have passionately loathed them ever since. I pay zero attention to anything they're bellyaching about. They are the boy who cried wolf on steroids.
    , @AP

    Are we “destroying” Earth?

    Yes.
     

    Using more natural resources than are replaced in the year is not destruction, though it may be unwise if continued until the resources actually run out. Your source is questionable, however.

    It is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus

    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration.
     

    So if a brain makes decisions (such as to smoke, or to eat bad foods) would you consider it a pathogen upon the body that it harms, with the implied remedy of brain removal or something similar?

    That is the essential silliness of your point.

    Concepts such as "environmental degradation" are human-created.


    I was responding to your terraforming hypothetical. If we make Earth harder and harder to inhabit and simply escape to Mars without fixing the root causes what makes you think we won’t repeat the same mistakes on Mars and then try to find a new planet, and then a new one, and then a one, and so on.

     

    Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one.

    Perhaps virus was the wrong word for such behaviour and parasite would be more fitting.
     
    Would you consider the brain to be a parasite upon the body? Using up so much energy thinking and stuff? Often making decisions that harm the body?

    Perhaps you think that removal of the cortex is the moral thing to do, for the body?


    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There’s no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.
     
    So why have you not removed yourself?
  186. Marin floats idea of a four-day, 24-hour work week

    We need more women in politics. Sanna Marin is already delivering fresh thinking. I happen to very satisfied with what I do, so doing it for 70 or even 80 hours is not a major isssue, but I am also privileged in a way that most people are not.

    Most people do not enjoy their work and it is drudgery for them. There is no reason to take away their free time unnecessarily. Space and time is happiness in of itself. Anyone who has ever talked to, or befriended, blue-collar workers will know that many of them don’t have energy for anything at the end of the day. They are like automotons.

    The main problem is that tax evasion is reaching record highs. People are productive enough, the issue is an increasing share of their wealth is siphoned off to tax havens.

    https://www.nber.org/papers/w23805

    https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2019/09/tackling-global-tax-havens-shaxon.htm

    Piketty makes the point that most episodes of global inequality levelling off has been in the wake of wars, revolution and slaughter in general. It’s time for another bloodletting of the oligarchical class.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Any country or bloc of countries adopting a 24 hour workweek would see its economic output and thus power decline relative to competitors. To be workable it thus requires global adoption, which is unlikely to say the least.

    I'm agnostic on the merits of the proposal. Most people do nothing valuable with their free time, but that's not to say their work provides much meaning for them either. There's no reason to be exhausted from a forty hour workweek and said exhaustion is the product of poor sleep, diet, fitness, and excessive commuting which ought to be addressed directly.

    And then we return to the typical bizarre Nordic attitude that tax evasion is some sort of massive problem. The OECD countries have government spending between one-third and three-fifths of economic output--a massive amount.

    That's not to say that today's oligarchical class merits defending, of course.

    I believe you've criticized Karlin before as a "racist libertarian". It appears you're just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.
    , @Nodwink

    It’s time for another bloodletting of the oligarchical class.
     
    Finally, an Unz Review comment I can get 100% behind!
  187. @anonymous coward
    Fake news. The athmosphere of Venus is a thousand times more hospitable and accessible to man than Mars.

    The facts that we're talking about colonizing Mars instead of Venus means the whole 'colonization' thing is a charade to dupe dumb plebs into spending time on bullshit, the elites obviously have no plan to colonize anything whatsoever.

    “…colonization’ thing is a charade to dupe dumb plebs into spending time on bullshit, the elites obviously have no plan to colonize anything whatsoever.” – The part of the project of filling up and clogging the limited mental space with garbage. For some the Odyssey of Kardashians and for other the Colonization of Mars. Kardashians are more real.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Kardashians are more real.
     
    And a century ago, people like you would be saying no differently about travelling to the moon.

    Goethe says you do not know your native language, until you have lived in another. Similarly, you don't see your own country, until you have been outside it. And we never even realize where we live - except in a hypothetical, textbook way - without leaving the planet.

    Even seeing videos on YouTube are impossible to believe, to judge by the comments ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrFFbyuQqt4.
  188. @neutral

    I’m not a naval strategist but first of all, isn’t the carrier a dead concept in a real war?
     
    Yes, because a war major war would involve nuclear weapons. Would anyone be concerned about whether some carriers are sunk or not if major cities are destroyed and a big percentage of the population has died?

    I’m a carrier skeptic. Admittedly, they are cool hardware, but so were battleships.

    Two battleships were used in Desert Storm. They could fire 16-inch shells at least 20 miles. Drones assisted with targeting. They had tomahawk cruise missiles for more distant targets. They hosted helicopters, as well as other ordinance. The Iraqis fired an anti-ship missile at one, and due to countermeasures, it missed the mark. Some Iraqis even surrendered to one via the drone.

    Those were old WW2-era battleships retro-fitted in the early 1980s, and they used WW2-era shells. If you designed one from the ground up today, I’ll bet you could make one far superior. I even think battleships might be inherently superior to carriers. Plenty of power to atomize Somali pirates, and make the seas safe, but without the intoxicating capability to encourage nation-building in darkest Africa.

    That said, battleships are a joke because they aren’t the status symbol that carriers are. A lot of nations had battleships. Relatively few ever had carriers, and none ever had so many as the US. They symbolize wealth, and the ability of the US to keep the sea lanes open. Most nuclear powers probably couldn’t manage that as separate entities, and that is a big part of the reason so many countries kowtow to the US.

    China wants to be the top of its own hierarchy. Not to mention, the US is becoming a banana-republic, and its future peacekeeping abilities are unclear, so there are rational reasons for wanting carriers, even if they are essentially white elephants when it comes to conflict between real powers.

    • Replies: @neutral

    the US is becoming a banana-republic
     
    That is true, however they will still have nuclear weapons I assume. So some time in the future the challenge would be to remove these weapons from what I can only guess would be a deranged, fanatical, third world sjw state, which means they must be dismantled at all costs.
  189. @Thulean Friend

    Are we “destroying” Earth?
     
    Yes.

    it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus
     
    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration. Microplastics is for instance almost entirely due to human pollution and the problem is just increasing. You are giving humanity enormous amounts of slack.

    Mars has no life.
     
    I was responding to your terraforming hypothetical. If we make Earth harder and harder to inhabit and simply escape to Mars without fixing the root causes what makes you think we won't repeat the same mistakes on Mars and then try to find a new planet, and then a new one, and then a one, and so on. Perhaps virus was the wrong word for such behaviour and parasite would be more fitting.

    Since AI is not conscious
     
    For now. The fear is about AI is really about AGI.

    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There's no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.

    Furthermore, given the strong likelihood of the simulation hypothesis being true, even being concerned at all could be spectacularly and comically irrational.

    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration. Microplastics is for instance almost entirely due to human pollution and the problem is just increasing. You are giving humanity enormous amounts of slack.

    You are privileging things other than humanity. Pagan, animistic nature worship.

    Environmental degradation is bad because we live here. Microplastics, for instance, are endrocrine disruptors. Even if we were able to avoid consuming them directly (which we’re not) we end up exposed owing to bioaccumulation.

    If we do not exist, the Earth is irrelevant.

    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There’s no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.

    Looks like I was right all along. You should be shot. After all, there’s no moral reason for you to care about your own survival other than narrow selfish ones.

    • Agree: AP
    • LOL: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Jatt Desi
    Realizing the interconnection between all things is the essence of the Pagan religions you deride.
  190. @Thulean Friend
    Marin floats idea of a four-day, 24-hour work week

    We need more women in politics. Sanna Marin is already delivering fresh thinking. I happen to very satisfied with what I do, so doing it for 70 or even 80 hours is not a major isssue, but I am also privileged in a way that most people are not.

    Most people do not enjoy their work and it is drudgery for them. There is no reason to take away their free time unnecessarily. Space and time is happiness in of itself. Anyone who has ever talked to, or befriended, blue-collar workers will know that many of them don't have energy for anything at the end of the day. They are like automotons.

    The main problem is that tax evasion is reaching record highs. People are productive enough, the issue is an increasing share of their wealth is siphoned off to tax havens.

    https://www.nber.org/papers/w23805

    https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2019/09/tackling-global-tax-havens-shaxon.htm

    Piketty makes the point that most episodes of global inequality levelling off has been in the wake of wars, revolution and slaughter in general. It's time for another bloodletting of the oligarchical class.

    Any country or bloc of countries adopting a 24 hour workweek would see its economic output and thus power decline relative to competitors. To be workable it thus requires global adoption, which is unlikely to say the least.

    I’m agnostic on the merits of the proposal. Most people do nothing valuable with their free time, but that’s not to say their work provides much meaning for them either. There’s no reason to be exhausted from a forty hour workweek and said exhaustion is the product of poor sleep, diet, fitness, and excessive commuting which ought to be addressed directly.

    And then we return to the typical bizarre Nordic attitude that tax evasion is some sort of massive problem. The OECD countries have government spending between one-third and three-fifths of economic output–a massive amount.

    That’s not to say that today’s oligarchical class merits defending, of course.

    I believe you’ve criticized Karlin before as a “racist libertarian”. It appears you’re just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Any country or bloc of countries adopting a 24 hour workweek would see its economic output and thus power decline
     
    https://i.imgur.com/4GPrxeU.jpg

    Productivity gains have gone to trivial and frivolous top 1% consumption, not any productive investment or technological gains. Everyone is worse off except those who sell yells or own high-end casinos.

    Furthermore, the 24 hour work week would be a baseline. I'd most heavily target it to people who do not have meaningful jobs they enjoy (which admittedly, is most people). Some people enjoy working many hours and these people should be freed, even encouraged, to do so. It is not about forcing everyone to a same level, but liberating those at the lower ends of society from drudgery.


    It appears you’re just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.
     
    Even the racism is wearing off, though I still have a strong aesthetic preference for the Nordic race. I like seeing myself in others. It's a primitive instinct but it is one I cannot shake out, sadly.

    I am slowly gravitating away from social democracy, which I view as a weak and insufficient attempt at a compromise which ended in historical failure. Though any other alternatives (such as communism) do not necessarily appeal to me either.

    , @Blinky Bill

    It appears you’re just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.
     
    You should have just called him a Dane. 😂
  191. @Thulean Friend

    When I speak of sufficient gravity, I am really talking about human anatomy and physiology.
     
    Same here. To live on Mars would be an eternal fight against your own biology to a much greater extent than on Earth in far harsher climate. That's why I am amused by people saying they would live on Mars. Going there for short visits or using it as a mining colony, sure. Actually living there? Our species evolved on planet Earth for a reason. In fact, unless there is an attraction on Mars which would be physically impossible to do on Earth and insanely cool, I would have no interest in visiting Mars (though I would want to go out in outer space when costs fall sufficiently to the level of an airline ticket).

    Potentially, Martian gravity would be enough to solve these problems, or make them solvable with slight tweaks – drugs or gene editing. But is it enough for normal cellular communication and development? For sperm to fertilize egg, for stem cells to differentiate and organize properly into different tissues and organs? For healthy babies to be born? For normal adolescence? For normal development of the brain?
     
    It would be more efficient to upload our conscousness to a machine instead and skip the half-hearted gene-editing step. Our bodies are just repositories of our minds anyway. We still do not understand the brain very well. Let's say we could copy our consciousness, would we be able to have two bodies (one physical and one machine) at once? And if so, would it cause any complications (such as shizophrenia)?

    I don’t believe it is possible to transmigrate the consciousness. The absolute best you could do on a theoretical level is create a carbon copy the consciousness. Without getting involved in ethical weeds, there might be good reasons for doing so. For companionship, for continued creative potential.

    Still, I think it would be a real technical challenge. I think of the banal subject of video game emulation. General rule is you need new hardware several times as capable as the old, to emulate old stuff. Wouldn’t that be true of the brain as well? Then emulated games are often quite playable, but they are seldom exactly the same.

    Beyond that there are certain philosophical questions in play. Let’s say you are emulated on more capable hardware. Maybe, your consciousness wouldn’t want to be limited by the same constraints. Maybe, it wouldn’t want its memory to be a bunch of melting clocks, but rather never to forget anything. Maybe, it would want Isaac Newton-level IQ, or something even higher than humans ever had. Wouldn’t that make it very alien, and not a copy of you?

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Without getting involved in ethical weeds, there might be good reasons for doing so. For companionship, for continued creative potential.
     
    I don't understand how extending one's consciousness would have implications for companionship. Do you mean that the two parts would communicate autonomously with each other, as seperate parts? I had in mind a continous stream traversing multiple bodies (some biological, some robotic) but still being part of the same whole.

    Let’s say you are emulated on more capable hardware. Maybe, your consciousness wouldn’t want to be limited by the same constraints. Maybe, it wouldn’t want its memory to be a bunch of melting clocks, but rather never to forget anything. Maybe, it would want Isaac Newton-level IQ, or something even higher than humans ever had. Wouldn’t that make it very alien, and not a copy of you?
     
    That is true, but consider that Rindermann has shown in his research that people with greater intellect have greater space for moral considerations. It is a problem for right-wingers that liberalism with its emphasis on individual rights won over more brutish competitors. If one believes in natural selection, surely that would also hold for ideas?

    Far from only a revolution in intellectual capability as in your example, we might get a moral one to boot. The industrial revolution was made possible by a series of intellectual advances during the enlightenment, with its heavy emphasis on abolition of slavery, emancipation of women, fair labour conditions and universal literacy. This is what I define as human progress.

    Human progress has increased concomitant with greater and greater human capital. If we witness another revolution in cognitive ability, as in your example, why would that not spill over into moral and spiritual realms? It already has in the past. Furthermore, given the dysgenic fertility trends which is affecting most countries, it might even be a moral imperative.

    , @Malenfant
    "I don’t believe it is possible to transmigrate the consciousness. The absolute best you could do on a theoretical level is create a carbon copy the consciousness."

    Well... perhaps not exactly.

    I've uploaded a paper that I'm sure you'll find interesting: https://docdro.id/SjLeYml

    If things are taken one step at a time, the transmigration of consciousness is likely somehow possible -- though this sort of scenario is, of course, entirely theoretical.

    Ultimately, you are your brain, but your brain is, in principle, very malleable.


    ...The mere cloning or copying of one's state of mind is an almost infinitely simpler matter. And even that ain't easy.
  192. @anonymous coward
    Fake news. The athmosphere of Venus is a thousand times more hospitable and accessible to man than Mars.

    The facts that we're talking about colonizing Mars instead of Venus means the whole 'colonization' thing is a charade to dupe dumb plebs into spending time on bullshit, the elites obviously have no plan to colonize anything whatsoever.

    It is easier to get to Venus. That’s why the Soviets did Venera. You could live on a giant zeppelin in Venus’s atmosphere, fairly protected from space debris and some level of radiation, and close to Earth’s gravity. But what would be the point? Venus’s natural resources are virtually impossible to harvest. It has no water, unlike Mars. Maybe, these things can be fixed, but it is more pie in the sky, and would take a staggeringly enormous amount of energy. And, in principle, it is is better to live on a planet that is hard to get to.

    BTW, I’m not actually saying it is possible to colonize Mars now. I think we would need 1960s-level human capital, and all this parasitism (both resource and social parasitism) would need to be ended. So, in a sense, I do think Musk is laughable because he doesn’t acknowledge these problems.

    Sure, talking about Mars is a distraction, but who claims to be so ascetic, as to live without distractions? (Being on Unz is a distraction.) Besides which, even in a political sense of basedness, one needs inspiring dreams. Maybe, you don’t think a billion Europeans on Mars is inspiring, but I do.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    But what would be the point?

     

    Indeed, there's the rub! What would be the point of living on Mars?

    Venus’s natural resources are virtually impossible to harvest.
     
    Mars has no natural resources either. (Unless you count rocks as a natural resource.)

    Maybe, you don’t think a billion Europeans on Mars is inspiring, but I do.

     

    Maybe Europeans should try colonizing New York before setting their sights on Mars.
  193. @reiner Tor
    China commissioned its first fully domestically built aircraft carrier. It’s slightly larger than the Liaoning, the Kuznetsov-class first Chinese carrier. The Chinese are expected to build two more carriers, each successive one better and more developed than the previous. The next one (Type 002) will feature a CATOBAR system (probably already an electromagnetic one), while the one after that (Type 003) will probably already be nuclear propelled.

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1173837.shtml
  194. @Thulean Friend
    What began as a nearly imperceptible shift after the re-election in May has now slowly progressed into a hurricane.

    https://i.imgur.com/PfbvEE8.jpg

    I hope Amit Shah does not back down. CAB+NRC is of essential importance.

    They are giving India the China treatment. I’ve always found your honorary Indian posts enlightening. Please keep it up. I’m sure our new commentator Jatt Singh would agree. 😄

    PS for those who are interested Amit Shah is a Hindu.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    I’m sure our new commentator Jatt Singh would agree
     
    ;)
  195. @Thorfinnsson
    Any country or bloc of countries adopting a 24 hour workweek would see its economic output and thus power decline relative to competitors. To be workable it thus requires global adoption, which is unlikely to say the least.

    I'm agnostic on the merits of the proposal. Most people do nothing valuable with their free time, but that's not to say their work provides much meaning for them either. There's no reason to be exhausted from a forty hour workweek and said exhaustion is the product of poor sleep, diet, fitness, and excessive commuting which ought to be addressed directly.

    And then we return to the typical bizarre Nordic attitude that tax evasion is some sort of massive problem. The OECD countries have government spending between one-third and three-fifths of economic output--a massive amount.

    That's not to say that today's oligarchical class merits defending, of course.

    I believe you've criticized Karlin before as a "racist libertarian". It appears you're just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.

    Any country or bloc of countries adopting a 24 hour workweek would see its economic output and thus power decline


    Productivity gains have gone to trivial and frivolous top 1% consumption, not any productive investment or technological gains. Everyone is worse off except those who sell yells or own high-end casinos.

    Furthermore, the 24 hour work week would be a baseline. I’d most heavily target it to people who do not have meaningful jobs they enjoy (which admittedly, is most people). Some people enjoy working many hours and these people should be freed, even encouraged, to do so. It is not about forcing everyone to a same level, but liberating those at the lower ends of society from drudgery.

    It appears you’re just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.

    Even the racism is wearing off, though I still have a strong aesthetic preference for the Nordic race. I like seeing myself in others. It’s a primitive instinct but it is one I cannot shake out, sadly.

    I am slowly gravitating away from social democracy, which I view as a weak and insufficient attempt at a compromise which ended in historical failure. Though any other alternatives (such as communism) do not necessarily appeal to me either.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Even the racism is wearing off
     
    Not at all surprising. You're all ticking time bombs. It's an inherent part of the leftard mentality so seize upon any half-baked pretext to cuck, just that some manage it sooner than others. Give it a few more years and I'd say it's an even money bet you'll be "experimenting" with black cock anally.
    , @Thorfinnsson


    Productivity gains have gone to trivial and frivolous top 1% consumption, not any productive investment or technological gains. Everyone is worse off except those who sell yells or own high-end casinos.
     
    This is not a rebuttal to my point, but a different argument entirely. One that I will engage with, as it has merit, but back to my original point.

    I believe it was Lenin who stated that power is mass multiplied by cohesion. In the contest between states, a significant aspect of power is economic output. Both overall, hence why the two most powerful countries are the USA and China, and per capita. Countries with a high income per capita have greater surpluses available to invest in power and gain prestige.

    Thus any country which limits its working hours is also choosing to limit its power. It has been observed that the USA for instance is not actually much more productive than the major economies of Western Europe, but per capita GDP is higher owing to Americans working more hours per year.

    The distribution of income and wealth within countries is a mostly separate issue. I say mostly since there can be an impact on stability and cohesion.

    As to your new point, strictly speaking all most consumption is "frivolous". The 1% dedicate a greater overall share of their consumption to frivolous trivialities as they're able to meet their basic needs with a lower share of their income, though not as low as most people might suppose as there's a requirement to spend a certain amount to maintain an appropriate social status.

    Is this a reason to dramatically compress the distribution of income in favor of a more egalitarian one? Not necessarily, though as I said previously I take a dim view of the current oligarchy and can think of other valid reasons to do so.

    Lastly, and this is niggling, but obviously there has been productive investment. Looking at the USA today (and most other places) there is more capital per worker than there was in 1972, though not as much as there could be had better policy choices been made.


    Furthermore, the 24 hour work week would be a baseline. I’d most heavily target it to people who do not have meaningful jobs they enjoy (which admittedly, is most people). Some people enjoy working many hours and these people should be freed, even encouraged, to do so. It is not about forcing everyone to a same level, but liberating those at the lower ends of society from drudgery.
     
    Drudgery isn't just experienced by people at the lower end. A lot of 90% centile workers have salaried jobs that they don't perceive as meaningful. I'm not particularly motivated to increase free time since I don't see streaming entertainment and social media as all that meaningful either.

    More interesting would be providing more avenues of reduced-hours employment for married mothers (to spend more time being mothers and wives) and elderly workers (to stay engaged but on their own terms).


    Even the racism is wearing off, though I still have a strong aesthetic preference for the Nordic race. I like seeing myself in others. It’s a primitive instinct but it is one I cannot shake out, sadly.
     
    There's nothing sad about this. Birds of a feather flock together. Living among different kinds is deeply alienating and a daily hell for many in my country.
  196. Pakistanis are a warrior race moron, those grip strength reports are dumb, bengalis have more grip strength than south africans on those reports. It still doesn’t change the fact that Pakistanis dismantled the British empire, mongols, greeks, and your trash soviet union too in the 1980s. The moron doesn’t understand that south asian isnt a race. Pakistan has more pashtuns than Afghanistan. Same Pashtuns who put 50,000 of your cowardly russian whites in bodybags. 2 of the 3 anglo afghan wars were fought on Pakistani soil. Even your Alexander was killed by Pakistanis of Jhelum. In britain, they are sexually pimping out 100,000 white females a year. The english defense league gets their skulls handed to them even when their numbers are more. Your queen diana was killed for shagging Pakistanis. Soom the Pakistani flag will be planted right above New York City and they will rule your white scum weak pot belly world. Ive seen whites fight,they’re weak cowardly scum which is why even with technology they lose wars against Pakistanis.

    • LOL: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    You do have the advantage of beef-consumption, but it may not avail you sufficiently against the BASED SIHKS!!!
  197. @Blinky Bill
    They are giving India the China treatment. I've always found your honorary Indian posts enlightening. Please keep it up. I'm sure our new commentator Jatt Singh would agree. 😄

    PS for those who are interested Amit Shah is a Hindu.

    I’m sure our new commentator Jatt Singh would agree

    😉

  198. Notice to the sick, sadistic loser that has been torturing and terrorizing me with mind polluting chants with DEWs and the monster that illegally implanted sensors, RFIDs, or nicro chips in me while unconscious in a hospital in 2014:

    If doing this to people seems like a good idea to you, do the world a favor and make your last act on earth a good one! Commit suicide!

    If what you are doing is legal, which it is not, then why are you doing this anonymously and why does every government employee refuse to tell me and admit what is being done to me, as well as hospital staff?

    Call me on my land line and leave a voice mail with your name, phone number and business, if what you are doing is legal, there is no reason to deny that you are doing it! You will have to call information because the internet is posting old phone numbers that I no longer use!

    Andrea Iravani

  199. @Anatoly Karlin
    Polish Perspective had a number of good takes on that if you search his comments history for Indians in Poland. It's overwhelmingly happened in the past decade.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    Nowhere close. Caucasians/Central Asians = 10-15% of Moscow's (real) population, while my casual one hour's worth of observation suggests subcons/etc. constitute 1-2% of Warsaw's. (I will have more accurate takes when I spend more time in Warsaw, I'll be there on Dec 24/25-30). As I pointed out above, the function of Central Asian Gastarbeiters in Poland is performed by Ukrainians. I can well imagine that they constitute a similar share of Warsaw's population, though this is of course just a guess - after all, it's not like they stand out.

    Are there as many subcons (plus Vietnamese and Filipinos) in Warsaw and Krakow as there are Caucasians + Central Asians in Moscow?
     
    The general pattern, as I see it, is that the flux waxes and wanes in tandem with the economy. Lots of Gastarbeiters left after the 2014 oil crash. Now they are beginning to come back, as the Russian economy becomes more competitive in terms of salaries. They will then retreat again in the next recession. And so on and on, until China becomes rich and open to start sucking them in from c.2030-40, at which point I believe this issue will more or less vanish for Russia.

    Your white women are being pimped by Pakistani men, your queen diana was killed for shagging Pakistanis.

    Tommy Robinson started the edl because his sister ran away with a Pakistani.

    98% of race riots in britain you lose against Pakistani fist fighters. Just go to YouTube and type in 2 Pakistanis vs 60 EDL members

    50,000 soviet whites were buried under afghanistan by the populations of Pashtuns in Pakistan.

    The British Empire and Greeks fell on their backs against todays people of Pakistan. Winston Churchill and the homo Alexander ran for their lives against Pakistanis of today

    Soon Pakistanis will conquer the United States, plant the Pakistani flag in New York City and make you white people their slaves.

    The Greatest warrior race of the world are Pakistanis but they are now organized and will spread like wildfire in all white countries around the world from america to russia and britain and finally stampeding israeli white neanderthals out of Israel too.

    Pakistanis are an Indo Aryan race of Israelites and no fake grip strength report is going to change your future of being slaves to Pakistanis.

    New York, London, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Berlin are all going to be Pakistani territory soon and then we will have brothels full of your white females like they’re doing in britain already.

    • LOL: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Could Pakistan hold off India? Modi seems like he's getting ready to maul the Pak. It's easy to laugh at Indians, but their war machine is starting to look pretty impressive. If they stomped Pakistan back when the two sides were more balanced, it's hard to see how Pakistan could survive the onslaught now that India is so much stronger.
    , @neutral

    Pakistanis are an Indo Aryan race
     
    Ha, what a joke, pakis are brown third worlders, any trace of Aryan heritage has been severely diminished over centuries of race mixing. As for them being warriors, you somehow must not be aware that they were subjects of the British empire, and before that conquered by Muslims.
  200. @Thulean Friend

    Are we “destroying” Earth?
     
    Yes.

    it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus
     
    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration. Microplastics is for instance almost entirely due to human pollution and the problem is just increasing. You are giving humanity enormous amounts of slack.

    Mars has no life.
     
    I was responding to your terraforming hypothetical. If we make Earth harder and harder to inhabit and simply escape to Mars without fixing the root causes what makes you think we won't repeat the same mistakes on Mars and then try to find a new planet, and then a new one, and then a one, and so on. Perhaps virus was the wrong word for such behaviour and parasite would be more fitting.

    Since AI is not conscious
     
    For now. The fear is about AI is really about AGI.

    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There's no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.

    Furthermore, given the strong likelihood of the simulation hypothesis being true, even being concerned at all could be spectacularly and comically irrational.

    Yes.

    Baseless envirofag scaremongering. I greatly enjoyed reading Bjorn Lomborg’s “The Skeptical Environmentalist.” Naturally, envirofags had a fit when it came out and they resorted to their usual character assassination tactics, but Lomborg’s expose of ludicrous envirofag catastrophizing – none of which, needless to say, ever panned out – alerted me to what shameless lying sacks of shit envirofags are. I have passionately loathed them ever since. I pay zero attention to anything they’re bellyaching about. They are the boy who cried wolf on steroids.

  201. @songbird
    I don't believe it is possible to transmigrate the consciousness. The absolute best you could do on a theoretical level is create a carbon copy the consciousness. Without getting involved in ethical weeds, there might be good reasons for doing so. For companionship, for continued creative potential.

    Still, I think it would be a real technical challenge. I think of the banal subject of video game emulation. General rule is you need new hardware several times as capable as the old, to emulate old stuff. Wouldn't that be true of the brain as well? Then emulated games are often quite playable, but they are seldom exactly the same.

    Beyond that there are certain philosophical questions in play. Let's say you are emulated on more capable hardware. Maybe, your consciousness wouldn't want to be limited by the same constraints. Maybe, it wouldn't want its memory to be a bunch of melting clocks, but rather never to forget anything. Maybe, it would want Isaac Newton-level IQ, or something even higher than humans ever had. Wouldn't that make it very alien, and not a copy of you?

    Without getting involved in ethical weeds, there might be good reasons for doing so. For companionship, for continued creative potential.

    I don’t understand how extending one’s consciousness would have implications for companionship. Do you mean that the two parts would communicate autonomously with each other, as seperate parts? I had in mind a continous stream traversing multiple bodies (some biological, some robotic) but still being part of the same whole.

    Let’s say you are emulated on more capable hardware. Maybe, your consciousness wouldn’t want to be limited by the same constraints. Maybe, it wouldn’t want its memory to be a bunch of melting clocks, but rather never to forget anything. Maybe, it would want Isaac Newton-level IQ, or something even higher than humans ever had. Wouldn’t that make it very alien, and not a copy of you?

    That is true, but consider that Rindermann has shown in his research that people with greater intellect have greater space for moral considerations. It is a problem for right-wingers that liberalism with its emphasis on individual rights won over more brutish competitors. If one believes in natural selection, surely that would also hold for ideas?

    Far from only a revolution in intellectual capability as in your example, we might get a moral one to boot. The industrial revolution was made possible by a series of intellectual advances during the enlightenment, with its heavy emphasis on abolition of slavery, emancipation of women, fair labour conditions and universal literacy. This is what I define as human progress.

    Human progress has increased concomitant with greater and greater human capital. If we witness another revolution in cognitive ability, as in your example, why would that not spill over into moral and spiritual realms? It already has in the past. Furthermore, given the dysgenic fertility trends which is affecting most countries, it might even be a moral imperative.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    "Moral consideration" means just that--consideration. It doesn't mean that the liberal conception of morality is correct, either today or two hundred years ago.

    You seem to be suggesting that liberalism won out among the smart fraction in the West in a Darwinistic competition of ideas, but that's dubious to say the least. One might as well state that Marxism-Leninism did the same in the Soviet Union or that fascism did so in interwar Germany and Italy.

    In reality liberalism was established by armed revolution, and those who fought against it and lost were in many cases expropriated, driven into exile, or even killed. Since that time liberalism has been the organizing ideology of many of the world's most powerful states, which in addition to deliberately exporting the ideology exert a powerful gravitational pull by virtue of superior social status.

    As for the four points you identified as human progress, I'd say one of those is regressive (emancipation of women) and another decidedly mixed or even irrelevant (abolition).
    , @Daniel Chieh

    with its heavy emphasis on abolition of slavery
     
    Slavery was arguably an immense advancement in human potential as it was only possible through the establishment of an economic ecosystem that took on basically unselected and obviously hostile elements and employed them in a manner such that the benefits(in say, food production) exceeded the costs. Mere acquisition of labor was not previously of such great value, as can be seen by the massacres committed by near-human primates and even stone age populations which execute captives (often horrifically) as a form of community bounding and spiritual uplift.

    Human capital may continue to advance but I think it is dubious if that has much to do with the liberal view of it, which if anything, actually promotes significant tensions by increasing overlapping realms of influence, thus increasing the friction in society; insofar as modern problems have modern solutions, it is probable this is where thought policing and essentially technological brainwashing serves to overcome, but one would adequate see this as less of the abolishing of slavery but the version that essentially expands to the entire community, herding their mentally fettered humanity into inoffensive domestic animals.

    A kind of fairness, I suppose.
    , @songbird

    had in mind a continous stream traversing multiple bodies (some biological, some robotic) but still being part of the same whole.
     
    Interesting idea. Guess it would require cybernetic implants, and I wasn't thinking of that.


    Do you mean that the two parts would communicate autonomously with each other, as seperate parts?
     
    Mainly, I was thinking of scenarios such as someone's elderly spouse died, or someone exploring a distant and dangerous place with limited supplies (but perhaps intelligent machines would obviate the need for this). A lot of identical twins are best friends, so I guess it might work with copies too.

    Even if the technical hurdles were too high, and the result was just an insentient simulacrum, it may still have a certain value. Imagine a grandfather AI that would be capable of low-level household tasks, and which might occasionally pester their descendants to get married, or offer banal but useful advice, or recommend books or movies he enjoyed.


    Rindermann has shown in his research that people with greater intellect have greater space for moral considerations
     
    I am a general advocate of IQ, believing that the useful aspects of the concept are severely under-utilized. And I do believe smarter people are generally more moral, as a whole.

    But I don't think increasing IQ would mean automatic progress, especially, if we are talking about transhuman levels. It could even potentially cause more problems than it solves. One problem is that IQ is often used to rationalize instincts. Another is that IQ leads to introspection, and there may be such a thing as too much. There are components of the brain that just aren't measured by IQ, and they may not play nice with high IQ. What would happen if you elevated the mind of some criminal? Would the emulation keep the bad parts for fidelity, while making the whole much smarter and more dangerous?
  202. @songbird
    I'm a carrier skeptic. Admittedly, they are cool hardware, but so were battleships.

    Two battleships were used in Desert Storm. They could fire 16-inch shells at least 20 miles. Drones assisted with targeting. They had tomahawk cruise missiles for more distant targets. They hosted helicopters, as well as other ordinance. The Iraqis fired an anti-ship missile at one, and due to countermeasures, it missed the mark. Some Iraqis even surrendered to one via the drone.

    Those were old WW2-era battleships retro-fitted in the early 1980s, and they used WW2-era shells. If you designed one from the ground up today, I'll bet you could make one far superior. I even think battleships might be inherently superior to carriers. Plenty of power to atomize Somali pirates, and make the seas safe, but without the intoxicating capability to encourage nation-building in darkest Africa.

    That said, battleships are a joke because they aren't the status symbol that carriers are. A lot of nations had battleships. Relatively few ever had carriers, and none ever had so many as the US. They symbolize wealth, and the ability of the US to keep the sea lanes open. Most nuclear powers probably couldn't manage that as separate entities, and that is a big part of the reason so many countries kowtow to the US.

    China wants to be the top of its own hierarchy. Not to mention, the US is becoming a banana-republic, and its future peacekeeping abilities are unclear, so there are rational reasons for wanting carriers, even if they are essentially white elephants when it comes to conflict between real powers.

    the US is becoming a banana-republic

    That is true, however they will still have nuclear weapons I assume. So some time in the future the challenge would be to remove these weapons from what I can only guess would be a deranged, fanatical, third world sjw state, which means they must be dismantled at all costs.

  203. @Rebel0007
    This is the most stern language that I have heard of coming from Russia, reported by Sputnik today. The U.S. would be collosally stupid to ignore this sudden and significant change in tone!

    below:

    "In our opinion, there are currently no prerequisites for a large-scale war. At the same time, the situation in the world remains unstable, and its development is becoming more and more dynamic. Unprecedented political, economic and information pressure is exerted on states trying to pursue an independent policy, including Russia," he said as quoted by the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.

    “We must be prepared for any scenario of the development of the situation. Therefore, the defence potential of Russia will now and in the future be maintained at a level required to repel any-scale aggression against our state from any environment,” Gerasimov said."

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201912181077602072-nato-drill-scenarios-point-to-preparation-for-large-scale-conflict---russian-general-staff/

    Yes, the language is harsher than usual, but this message had been repeated by Putin many times, starting with 2007 Munich speech. Basically, if the US elites had even a modicum of reason left, they should have gotten the message long before now. As they appear to be hopelessly insane, this harsh language wouldn’t have any effect, either.

  204. @Thorfinnsson
    Any country or bloc of countries adopting a 24 hour workweek would see its economic output and thus power decline relative to competitors. To be workable it thus requires global adoption, which is unlikely to say the least.

    I'm agnostic on the merits of the proposal. Most people do nothing valuable with their free time, but that's not to say their work provides much meaning for them either. There's no reason to be exhausted from a forty hour workweek and said exhaustion is the product of poor sleep, diet, fitness, and excessive commuting which ought to be addressed directly.

    And then we return to the typical bizarre Nordic attitude that tax evasion is some sort of massive problem. The OECD countries have government spending between one-third and three-fifths of economic output--a massive amount.

    That's not to say that today's oligarchical class merits defending, of course.

    I believe you've criticized Karlin before as a "racist libertarian". It appears you're just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.

    It appears you’re just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.

    You should have just called him a Dane. 😂

  205. @Thulean Friend

    Any country or bloc of countries adopting a 24 hour workweek would see its economic output and thus power decline
     
    https://i.imgur.com/4GPrxeU.jpg

    Productivity gains have gone to trivial and frivolous top 1% consumption, not any productive investment or technological gains. Everyone is worse off except those who sell yells or own high-end casinos.

    Furthermore, the 24 hour work week would be a baseline. I'd most heavily target it to people who do not have meaningful jobs they enjoy (which admittedly, is most people). Some people enjoy working many hours and these people should be freed, even encouraged, to do so. It is not about forcing everyone to a same level, but liberating those at the lower ends of society from drudgery.


    It appears you’re just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.
     
    Even the racism is wearing off, though I still have a strong aesthetic preference for the Nordic race. I like seeing myself in others. It's a primitive instinct but it is one I cannot shake out, sadly.

    I am slowly gravitating away from social democracy, which I view as a weak and insufficient attempt at a compromise which ended in historical failure. Though any other alternatives (such as communism) do not necessarily appeal to me either.

    Even the racism is wearing off

    Not at all surprising. You’re all ticking time bombs. It’s an inherent part of the leftard mentality so seize upon any half-baked pretext to cuck, just that some manage it sooner than others. Give it a few more years and I’d say it’s an even money bet you’ll be “experimenting” with black cock anally.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oAKG-kbKeIo
    , @Russiantroll
    Black guys are small sizes

    If you look at actual medical reports from the national library of medicine and not surveys you will see they are 4.8 to 5.3 inches on average from Tanzania to Nigeria in actual measurments.
    , @Thulean Friend
    Never ceases to amaze me how many on the right have very graphic - and often helpfully precise! - fantasies about being raped by feral africans which are then projected onto others.

    Reminds me of research findings showing that interracial porn was most commonly viewed in the more racist southern states and less so in more liberal northern states in the US.

  206. @Thulean Friend

    Any country or bloc of countries adopting a 24 hour workweek would see its economic output and thus power decline
     
    https://i.imgur.com/4GPrxeU.jpg

    Productivity gains have gone to trivial and frivolous top 1% consumption, not any productive investment or technological gains. Everyone is worse off except those who sell yells or own high-end casinos.

    Furthermore, the 24 hour work week would be a baseline. I'd most heavily target it to people who do not have meaningful jobs they enjoy (which admittedly, is most people). Some people enjoy working many hours and these people should be freed, even encouraged, to do so. It is not about forcing everyone to a same level, but liberating those at the lower ends of society from drudgery.


    It appears you’re just a racist social democrat who wants a cucked and gay society, just without the mud monsters.
     
    Even the racism is wearing off, though I still have a strong aesthetic preference for the Nordic race. I like seeing myself in others. It's a primitive instinct but it is one I cannot shake out, sadly.

    I am slowly gravitating away from social democracy, which I view as a weak and insufficient attempt at a compromise which ended in historical failure. Though any other alternatives (such as communism) do not necessarily appeal to me either.

    Productivity gains have gone to trivial and frivolous top 1% consumption, not any productive investment or technological gains. Everyone is worse off except those who sell yells or own high-end casinos.

    This is not a rebuttal to my point, but a different argument entirely. One that I will engage with, as it has merit, but back to my original point.

    I believe it was Lenin who stated that power is mass multiplied by cohesion. In the contest between states, a significant aspect of power is economic output. Both overall, hence why the two most powerful countries are the USA and China, and per capita. Countries with a high income per capita have greater surpluses available to invest in power and gain prestige.

    Thus any country which limits its working hours is also choosing to limit its power. It has been observed that the USA for instance is not actually much more productive than the major economies of Western Europe, but per capita GDP is higher owing to Americans working more hours per year.

    The distribution of income and wealth within countries is a mostly separate issue. I say mostly since there can be an impact on stability and cohesion.

    As to your new point, strictly speaking all most consumption is “frivolous”. The 1% dedicate a greater overall share of their consumption to frivolous trivialities as they’re able to meet their basic needs with a lower share of their income, though not as low as most people might suppose as there’s a requirement to spend a certain amount to maintain an appropriate social status.

    Is this a reason to dramatically compress the distribution of income in favor of a more egalitarian one? Not necessarily, though as I said previously I take a dim view of the current oligarchy and can think of other valid reasons to do so.

    Lastly, and this is niggling, but obviously there has been productive investment. Looking at the USA today (and most other places) there is more capital per worker than there was in 1972, though not as much as there could be had better policy choices been made.

    Furthermore, the 24 hour work week would be a baseline. I’d most heavily target it to people who do not have meaningful jobs they enjoy (which admittedly, is most people). Some people enjoy working many hours and these people should be freed, even encouraged, to do so. It is not about forcing everyone to a same level, but liberating those at the lower ends of society from drudgery.

    Drudgery isn’t just experienced by people at the lower end. A lot of 90% centile workers have salaried jobs that they don’t perceive as meaningful. I’m not particularly motivated to increase free time since I don’t see streaming entertainment and social media as all that meaningful either.

    More interesting would be providing more avenues of reduced-hours employment for married mothers (to spend more time being mothers and wives) and elderly workers (to stay engaged but on their own terms).

    Even the racism is wearing off, though I still have a strong aesthetic preference for the Nordic race. I like seeing myself in others. It’s a primitive instinct but it is one I cannot shake out, sadly.

    There’s nothing sad about this. Birds of a feather flock together. Living among different kinds is deeply alienating and a daily hell for many in my country.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  207. @songbird
    It is easier to get to Venus. That's why the Soviets did Venera. You could live on a giant zeppelin in Venus's atmosphere, fairly protected from space debris and some level of radiation, and close to Earth's gravity. But what would be the point? Venus's natural resources are virtually impossible to harvest. It has no water, unlike Mars. Maybe, these things can be fixed, but it is more pie in the sky, and would take a staggeringly enormous amount of energy. And, in principle, it is is better to live on a planet that is hard to get to.

    BTW, I'm not actually saying it is possible to colonize Mars now. I think we would need 1960s-level human capital, and all this parasitism (both resource and social parasitism) would need to be ended. So, in a sense, I do think Musk is laughable because he doesn't acknowledge these problems.

    Sure, talking about Mars is a distraction, but who claims to be so ascetic, as to live without distractions? (Being on Unz is a distraction.) Besides which, even in a political sense of basedness, one needs inspiring dreams. Maybe, you don't think a billion Europeans on Mars is inspiring, but I do.

    But what would be the point?

    Indeed, there’s the rub! What would be the point of living on Mars?

    Venus’s natural resources are virtually impossible to harvest.

    Mars has no natural resources either. (Unless you count rocks as a natural resource.)

    Maybe, you don’t think a billion Europeans on Mars is inspiring, but I do.

    Maybe Europeans should try colonizing New York before setting their sights on Mars.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Indeed, there’s the rub! What would be the point of living on Mars?
     
    What was the point of settling America? That too was a costly, uncertain venture. Worked out rather well in the long run, of course.

    Mars has no natural resources either.
     
    It has plenty of resources. Not particularly valuable ones, but that's not the issue.

    This thread reminded me of Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars," written over twenty years ago. In it he laid out a colonization plan that relied solely on existing 1990s technology, which could be implemented right now and promised vast cost savings over alternative approaches. It was a very exciting read and seemed perfectly feasible to me, but I lack anything like the necessary technical knowledge to judge for sure. So I just did a bit of googling around to see why nothing seems to have come of his ideas, and although I read a couple of favorable reviews by people who appear to know what they're talking about, I more importantly learned he has a new book out, "The Case for Space." I can't wait to check it out.

    You're pretty big on space colonization, so you should too Coward. :)
    , @utu
    "Maybe Europeans should try colonizing New York before setting their sights on Mars." - Funny and a very good point. There were several colonizations of New York. Henry James when returned to New York from Europe in 1904 was taken aback with what he saw. New York became Jewish:

    “There were thousands of little chairs and almost as many little Jews; and there was music in an open rotunda, over which the little Jews wagged their big noses.”
     
  208. @silviosilver

    Even the racism is wearing off
     
    Not at all surprising. You're all ticking time bombs. It's an inherent part of the leftard mentality so seize upon any half-baked pretext to cuck, just that some manage it sooner than others. Give it a few more years and I'd say it's an even money bet you'll be "experimenting" with black cock anally.

  209. @Russiantroll
    Pakistanis are a warrior race moron, those grip strength reports are dumb, bengalis have more grip strength than south africans on those reports. It still doesn't change the fact that Pakistanis dismantled the British empire, mongols, greeks, and your trash soviet union too in the 1980s. The moron doesn't understand that south asian isnt a race. Pakistan has more pashtuns than Afghanistan. Same Pashtuns who put 50,000 of your cowardly russian whites in bodybags. 2 of the 3 anglo afghan wars were fought on Pakistani soil. Even your Alexander was killed by Pakistanis of Jhelum. In britain, they are sexually pimping out 100,000 white females a year. The english defense league gets their skulls handed to them even when their numbers are more. Your queen diana was killed for shagging Pakistanis. Soom the Pakistani flag will be planted right above New York City and they will rule your white scum weak pot belly world. Ive seen whites fight,they're weak cowardly scum which is why even with technology they lose wars against Pakistanis.

    You do have the advantage of beef-consumption, but it may not avail you sufficiently against the BASED SIHKS!!!

    • Replies: @Jatt Desi
    https://www.dawn.com/news/1199794

    Na, even Rural Pakistan is against it.
    , @Jatt Desi
    https://youtu.be/gSiR_gCEvfA

    LOL BRUAAAH WE GONNA RECK DA MUGHAL YEA!!
  210. @silviosilver

    Even the racism is wearing off
     
    Not at all surprising. You're all ticking time bombs. It's an inherent part of the leftard mentality so seize upon any half-baked pretext to cuck, just that some manage it sooner than others. Give it a few more years and I'd say it's an even money bet you'll be "experimenting" with black cock anally.

    Black guys are small sizes

    If you look at actual medical reports from the national library of medicine and not surveys you will see they are 4.8 to 5.3 inches on average from Tanzania to Nigeria in actual measurments.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Here is a relevant joke.
    The average size of the dick of males of Shitville was found to be twice the size of the dick of males in the nearby Dungville. The former dataset was obtained via a survey using questionnaire, whereas the latter by actual measurements.
    , @Swedish Family

    Black guys are small sizes

    If you look at actual medical reports from the national library of medicine and not surveys you will see they are 4.8 to 5.3 inches on average from Tanzania to Nigeria in actual measurments.
     

    There are next to no reliable surveys on this question, and I very much doubt the countries of Tanzania and Nigeria are at the forefront of modern science.

    All modern evidence is that national differences in "endowment" are very slight. Unlike with intelligence, the interest here is not the tail effects, but the differences between average men, which must be very modest.

  211. Request for subject change –

    Open Thread 98: Extra Strength Powerful Comments

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  212. @Russiantroll
    Black guys are small sizes

    If you look at actual medical reports from the national library of medicine and not surveys you will see they are 4.8 to 5.3 inches on average from Tanzania to Nigeria in actual measurments.

    Here is a relevant joke.
    The average size of the dick of males of Shitville was found to be twice the size of the dick of males in the nearby Dungville. The former dataset was obtained via a survey using questionnaire, whereas the latter by actual measurements.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
  213. @Thulean Friend

    Without getting involved in ethical weeds, there might be good reasons for doing so. For companionship, for continued creative potential.
     
    I don't understand how extending one's consciousness would have implications for companionship. Do you mean that the two parts would communicate autonomously with each other, as seperate parts? I had in mind a continous stream traversing multiple bodies (some biological, some robotic) but still being part of the same whole.

    Let’s say you are emulated on more capable hardware. Maybe, your consciousness wouldn’t want to be limited by the same constraints. Maybe, it wouldn’t want its memory to be a bunch of melting clocks, but rather never to forget anything. Maybe, it would want Isaac Newton-level IQ, or something even higher than humans ever had. Wouldn’t that make it very alien, and not a copy of you?
     
    That is true, but consider that Rindermann has shown in his research that people with greater intellect have greater space for moral considerations. It is a problem for right-wingers that liberalism with its emphasis on individual rights won over more brutish competitors. If one believes in natural selection, surely that would also hold for ideas?

    Far from only a revolution in intellectual capability as in your example, we might get a moral one to boot. The industrial revolution was made possible by a series of intellectual advances during the enlightenment, with its heavy emphasis on abolition of slavery, emancipation of women, fair labour conditions and universal literacy. This is what I define as human progress.

    Human progress has increased concomitant with greater and greater human capital. If we witness another revolution in cognitive ability, as in your example, why would that not spill over into moral and spiritual realms? It already has in the past. Furthermore, given the dysgenic fertility trends which is affecting most countries, it might even be a moral imperative.

    “Moral consideration” means just that–consideration. It doesn’t mean that the liberal conception of morality is correct, either today or two hundred years ago.

    You seem to be suggesting that liberalism won out among the smart fraction in the West in a Darwinistic competition of ideas, but that’s dubious to say the least. One might as well state that Marxism-Leninism did the same in the Soviet Union or that fascism did so in interwar Germany and Italy.

    In reality liberalism was established by armed revolution, and those who fought against it and lost were in many cases expropriated, driven into exile, or even killed. Since that time liberalism has been the organizing ideology of many of the world’s most powerful states, which in addition to deliberately exporting the ideology exert a powerful gravitational pull by virtue of superior social status.

    As for the four points you identified as human progress, I’d say one of those is regressive (emancipation of women) and another decidedly mixed or even irrelevant (abolition).

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  214. @Russiantroll
    Your white women are being pimped by Pakistani men, your queen diana was killed for shagging Pakistanis.

    Tommy Robinson started the edl because his sister ran away with a Pakistani.

    98% of race riots in britain you lose against Pakistani fist fighters. Just go to YouTube and type in 2 Pakistanis vs 60 EDL members

    50,000 soviet whites were buried under afghanistan by the populations of Pashtuns in Pakistan.

    The British Empire and Greeks fell on their backs against todays people of Pakistan. Winston Churchill and the homo Alexander ran for their lives against Pakistanis of today

    Soon Pakistanis will conquer the United States, plant the Pakistani flag in New York City and make you white people their slaves.

    The Greatest warrior race of the world are Pakistanis but they are now organized and will spread like wildfire in all white countries around the world from america to russia and britain and finally stampeding israeli white neanderthals out of Israel too.

    Pakistanis are an Indo Aryan race of Israelites and no fake grip strength report is going to change your future of being slaves to Pakistanis.

    New York, London, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Berlin are all going to be Pakistani territory soon and then we will have brothels full of your white females like they're doing in britain already.

    Could Pakistan hold off India? Modi seems like he’s getting ready to maul the Pak. It’s easy to laugh at Indians, but their war machine is starting to look pretty impressive. If they stomped Pakistan back when the two sides were more balanced, it’s hard to see how Pakistan could survive the onslaught now that India is so much stronger.

    • Replies: @Russiantroll
    Indians with 5x more of a population and 15× more in funding should be able to easily handle Pakistan with ease

    They didnt win kargil because more indian soldiers died than Pakistanis

    They didn't win the 1965 war either
  215. @Anatoly Karlin
    Demographics wise, whiter than Moscow obviously, though would be comparable if you equate Ukrainians with Tajiks and Kyrgyz.

    The stories are true, tons of subcons now. I'm an indophile so OK with that but AquariusAnon would be triggered living here.

    My assessment is that there are more Negroes than in Moscow, Moscow being the most Negrified Russian city. Though tiny in both absolute and relative terms nonetheless, ofc. For now

    Spent just an hour in center, so assessment is preliminary. Infrastructure is functional, comparable to Moscow, though ofc on much smaller scale, it being a smaller city. I would guess QoL in Moscow and Warszawa is comparable. My expectation (backed by stats) is that top tier Russian and Polish cities are comparable, but gulf appears amongst smaller cities and towns.

    tons of subcons now

    These may just be Gypsies who’ve moved from neighbouring Slovakia or Czechia. I encountered a couple of these doing restaurant/hotel grunt work during my first visit to Krakow in 2007. I’ve been to Krakow the last two years in a row, staying in different parts of the city both times, without noticing subcons or any non-whites but I was only there for two nights on each occasion.

    In the case of Warsaw there were more visible blacks in 2012 than when I was last there in 2018, though there still are some about. There used to be a fair number of them hanging round the train station and at some of the hotel & Irish-type bars. My guess is they get their foot in the EU door, get some documentation then head off to Britain, Germany or Sweden. In 2018 Warsaw did have however a noticeable number of people who looked like they were from the Caucasus, always in groups of fairly young men – could’ve just been tourists or sports fans over for a match, I suppose.

  216. @silviosilver
    Could Pakistan hold off India? Modi seems like he's getting ready to maul the Pak. It's easy to laugh at Indians, but their war machine is starting to look pretty impressive. If they stomped Pakistan back when the two sides were more balanced, it's hard to see how Pakistan could survive the onslaught now that India is so much stronger.

    Indians with 5x more of a population and 15× more in funding should be able to easily handle Pakistan with ease

    They didnt win kargil because more indian soldiers died than Pakistanis

    They didn’t win the 1965 war either

  217. @anonymous coward

    But what would be the point?

     

    Indeed, there's the rub! What would be the point of living on Mars?

    Venus’s natural resources are virtually impossible to harvest.
     
    Mars has no natural resources either. (Unless you count rocks as a natural resource.)

    Maybe, you don’t think a billion Europeans on Mars is inspiring, but I do.

     

    Maybe Europeans should try colonizing New York before setting their sights on Mars.

    Indeed, there’s the rub! What would be the point of living on Mars?

    What was the point of settling America? That too was a costly, uncertain venture. Worked out rather well in the long run, of course.

    Mars has no natural resources either.

    It has plenty of resources. Not particularly valuable ones, but that’s not the issue.

    This thread reminded me of Robert Zubrin’s “The Case for Mars,” written over twenty years ago. In it he laid out a colonization plan that relied solely on existing 1990s technology, which could be implemented right now and promised vast cost savings over alternative approaches. It was a very exciting read and seemed perfectly feasible to me, but I lack anything like the necessary technical knowledge to judge for sure. So I just did a bit of googling around to see why nothing seems to have come of his ideas, and although I read a couple of favorable reviews by people who appear to know what they’re talking about, I more importantly learned he has a new book out, “The Case for Space.” I can’t wait to check it out.

    You’re pretty big on space colonization, so you should too Coward. 🙂

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    What was the point of settling America? That too was a costly, uncertain venture. Worked out rather well in the long run, of course.
     
    It was neither costly nor uncertain. It paid for itself and generated immense profits within one voyage.

    ...but I lack anything like the necessary technical knowledge to judge for sure.
     
    No offense, but we can tell, no need to remind us.

    'Space exploration' is a) technically impossible b) pointless because it could never turn a profit even theoretically c) way too premature, when even places like e.g. Wyoming aren't even colonized yet. (Not to mention Antarctica, the sea bed, etc.)
  218. @Russiantroll
    Your white women are being pimped by Pakistani men, your queen diana was killed for shagging Pakistanis.

    Tommy Robinson started the edl because his sister ran away with a Pakistani.

    98% of race riots in britain you lose against Pakistani fist fighters. Just go to YouTube and type in 2 Pakistanis vs 60 EDL members

    50,000 soviet whites were buried under afghanistan by the populations of Pashtuns in Pakistan.

    The British Empire and Greeks fell on their backs against todays people of Pakistan. Winston Churchill and the homo Alexander ran for their lives against Pakistanis of today

    Soon Pakistanis will conquer the United States, plant the Pakistani flag in New York City and make you white people their slaves.

    The Greatest warrior race of the world are Pakistanis but they are now organized and will spread like wildfire in all white countries around the world from america to russia and britain and finally stampeding israeli white neanderthals out of Israel too.

    Pakistanis are an Indo Aryan race of Israelites and no fake grip strength report is going to change your future of being slaves to Pakistanis.

    New York, London, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Berlin are all going to be Pakistani territory soon and then we will have brothels full of your white females like they're doing in britain already.

    Pakistanis are an Indo Aryan race

    Ha, what a joke, pakis are brown third worlders, any trace of Aryan heritage has been severely diminished over centuries of race mixing. As for them being warriors, you somehow must not be aware that they were subjects of the British empire, and before that conquered by Muslims.

    • Replies: @Russiantroll
    Pakistanis were always Aryans you're a neanderthal

    Pakistan was Afghanistan in the past

    They're more pashtuns in pakistan than afghanistan

    The British never officially conquered the whole western and northern parts of Pakistan

    It was under the durrani empire
  219. @Thulean Friend

    Without getting involved in ethical weeds, there might be good reasons for doing so. For companionship, for continued creative potential.
     
    I don't understand how extending one's consciousness would have implications for companionship. Do you mean that the two parts would communicate autonomously with each other, as seperate parts? I had in mind a continous stream traversing multiple bodies (some biological, some robotic) but still being part of the same whole.

    Let’s say you are emulated on more capable hardware. Maybe, your consciousness wouldn’t want to be limited by the same constraints. Maybe, it wouldn’t want its memory to be a bunch of melting clocks, but rather never to forget anything. Maybe, it would want Isaac Newton-level IQ, or something even higher than humans ever had. Wouldn’t that make it very alien, and not a copy of you?
     
    That is true, but consider that Rindermann has shown in his research that people with greater intellect have greater space for moral considerations. It is a problem for right-wingers that liberalism with its emphasis on individual rights won over more brutish competitors. If one believes in natural selection, surely that would also hold for ideas?

    Far from only a revolution in intellectual capability as in your example, we might get a moral one to boot. The industrial revolution was made possible by a series of intellectual advances during the enlightenment, with its heavy emphasis on abolition of slavery, emancipation of women, fair labour conditions and universal literacy. This is what I define as human progress.

    Human progress has increased concomitant with greater and greater human capital. If we witness another revolution in cognitive ability, as in your example, why would that not spill over into moral and spiritual realms? It already has in the past. Furthermore, given the dysgenic fertility trends which is affecting most countries, it might even be a moral imperative.

    with its heavy emphasis on abolition of slavery

    Slavery was arguably an immense advancement in human potential as it was only possible through the establishment of an economic ecosystem that took on basically unselected and obviously hostile elements and employed them in a manner such that the benefits(in say, food production) exceeded the costs. Mere acquisition of labor was not previously of such great value, as can be seen by the massacres committed by near-human primates and even stone age populations which execute captives (often horrifically) as a form of community bounding and spiritual uplift.

    Human capital may continue to advance but I think it is dubious if that has much to do with the liberal view of it, which if anything, actually promotes significant tensions by increasing overlapping realms of influence, thus increasing the friction in society; insofar as modern problems have modern solutions, it is probable this is where thought policing and essentially technological brainwashing serves to overcome, but one would adequate see this as less of the abolishing of slavery but the version that essentially expands to the entire community, herding their mentally fettered humanity into inoffensive domestic animals.

    A kind of fairness, I suppose.

  220. @Thulean Friend

    Without getting involved in ethical weeds, there might be good reasons for doing so. For companionship, for continued creative potential.
     
    I don't understand how extending one's consciousness would have implications for companionship. Do you mean that the two parts would communicate autonomously with each other, as seperate parts? I had in mind a continous stream traversing multiple bodies (some biological, some robotic) but still being part of the same whole.

    Let’s say you are emulated on more capable hardware. Maybe, your consciousness wouldn’t want to be limited by the same constraints. Maybe, it wouldn’t want its memory to be a bunch of melting clocks, but rather never to forget anything. Maybe, it would want Isaac Newton-level IQ, or something even higher than humans ever had. Wouldn’t that make it very alien, and not a copy of you?
     
    That is true, but consider that Rindermann has shown in his research that people with greater intellect have greater space for moral considerations. It is a problem for right-wingers that liberalism with its emphasis on individual rights won over more brutish competitors. If one believes in natural selection, surely that would also hold for ideas?

    Far from only a revolution in intellectual capability as in your example, we might get a moral one to boot. The industrial revolution was made possible by a series of intellectual advances during the enlightenment, with its heavy emphasis on abolition of slavery, emancipation of women, fair labour conditions and universal literacy. This is what I define as human progress.

    Human progress has increased concomitant with greater and greater human capital. If we witness another revolution in cognitive ability, as in your example, why would that not spill over into moral and spiritual realms? It already has in the past. Furthermore, given the dysgenic fertility trends which is affecting most countries, it might even be a moral imperative.

    had in mind a continous stream traversing multiple bodies (some biological, some robotic) but still being part of the same whole.

    Interesting idea. Guess it would require cybernetic implants, and I wasn’t thinking of that.

    Do you mean that the two parts would communicate autonomously with each other, as seperate parts?

    Mainly, I was thinking of scenarios such as someone’s elderly spouse died, or someone exploring a distant and dangerous place with limited supplies (but perhaps intelligent machines would obviate the need for this). A lot of identical twins are best friends, so I guess it might work with copies too.

    Even if the technical hurdles were too high, and the result was just an insentient simulacrum, it may still have a certain value. Imagine a grandfather AI that would be capable of low-level household tasks, and which might occasionally pester their descendants to get married, or offer banal but useful advice, or recommend books or movies he enjoyed.

    Rindermann has shown in his research that people with greater intellect have greater space for moral considerations

    I am a general advocate of IQ, believing that the useful aspects of the concept are severely under-utilized. And I do believe smarter people are generally more moral, as a whole.

    But I don’t think increasing IQ would mean automatic progress, especially, if we are talking about transhuman levels. It could even potentially cause more problems than it solves. One problem is that IQ is often used to rationalize instincts. Another is that IQ leads to introspection, and there may be such a thing as too much. There are components of the brain that just aren’t measured by IQ, and they may not play nice with high IQ. What would happen if you elevated the mind of some criminal? Would the emulation keep the bad parts for fidelity, while making the whole much smarter and more dangerous?

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    I was thinking of scenarios such as someone’s elderly spouse died, or someone exploring a distant and dangerous place with limited supplies (but perhaps intelligent machines would obviate the need for this). A lot of identical twins are best friends, so I guess it might work with copies too.
     
    "Lika barn leka bäst" as we say here. This is a fascinating idea. Would potentially solve the loneliness epidemic for many people, especially older men (who are often the most affected from my understanding of the research). I think the idea that "opposites attract" that was popular some time ago is one of the worst memes in social science which is thankfully phasing out.

    OTOH, if we are at such an advanced technological stage it would perhaps be more resource efficient to simply gene edit out our need for companionship which is genetically hardwired into us. Humans are social animals after all, but that is also evolutionarily driven. This is what ethicists mean when they are talking about "playing god", and warn against it. Though I do not have any moral quibbles about it, though perhaps I should.


    Imagine a grandfather AI that would be capable of low-level household tasks, and which might occasionally pester their descendants to get married, or offer banal but useful advice, or recommend books or movies he enjoyed.
     
    Would you enjoy this or even find it useful? I get annoyed even by reading this :) Then again, I place extremely high value on freedom of action and thought. I may be an outlier here.

    One problem is that IQ is often used to rationalize instincts.
     
    But many of our instincts are passed down precisely because of rational reasons. It makes sense to have them from birth rather than relearning all the basic stuff. How would this be qualitivately different?

    There are components of the brain that just aren’t measured by IQ
     
    I dislike the term 'emotional IQ', but there's something to be said for what it aims to capture. Shockingly, we still dont have a proper measurement for creativity! Worse, there doesn't seem to be much interest in these matters either among the general public.

    What would happen if you elevated the mind of some criminal? Would the emulation keep the bad parts for fidelity, while making the whole much smarter and more dangerous?
     
    This is a valid concern but humanity's worst elements did not do better in the human capital shock that we've seen over the past few hundred years if you look at murder rate, wars, longevivity, gender equity and so on. Why would there be such a radical change now from the previous pattern?
  221. @neutral

    Pakistanis are an Indo Aryan race
     
    Ha, what a joke, pakis are brown third worlders, any trace of Aryan heritage has been severely diminished over centuries of race mixing. As for them being warriors, you somehow must not be aware that they were subjects of the British empire, and before that conquered by Muslims.

    Pakistanis were always Aryans you’re a neanderthal

    Pakistan was Afghanistan in the past

    They’re more pashtuns in pakistan than afghanistan

    The British never officially conquered the whole western and northern parts of Pakistan

    It was under the durrani empire

    • Replies: @Jatt Singh
    Another mirpuri drowning in Afghan dick while fucking his first cousin.
  222. @silviosilver

    Indeed, there’s the rub! What would be the point of living on Mars?
     
    What was the point of settling America? That too was a costly, uncertain venture. Worked out rather well in the long run, of course.

    Mars has no natural resources either.
     
    It has plenty of resources. Not particularly valuable ones, but that's not the issue.

    This thread reminded me of Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars," written over twenty years ago. In it he laid out a colonization plan that relied solely on existing 1990s technology, which could be implemented right now and promised vast cost savings over alternative approaches. It was a very exciting read and seemed perfectly feasible to me, but I lack anything like the necessary technical knowledge to judge for sure. So I just did a bit of googling around to see why nothing seems to have come of his ideas, and although I read a couple of favorable reviews by people who appear to know what they're talking about, I more importantly learned he has a new book out, "The Case for Space." I can't wait to check it out.

    You're pretty big on space colonization, so you should too Coward. :)

    What was the point of settling America? That too was a costly, uncertain venture. Worked out rather well in the long run, of course.

    It was neither costly nor uncertain. It paid for itself and generated immense profits within one voyage.

    …but I lack anything like the necessary technical knowledge to judge for sure.

    No offense, but we can tell, no need to remind us.

    ‘Space exploration’ is a) technically impossible b) pointless because it could never turn a profit even theoretically c) way too premature, when even places like e.g. Wyoming aren’t even colonized yet. (Not to mention Antarctica, the sea bed, etc.)

    • Replies: @songbird

    places like e.g. Wyoming aren’t even colonized yet. (Not to mention Antarctica, the sea bed, etc
     
    Your proposal is eminently sensible, except, for the fact that we are talking about sovereignty here: a new nation. Not renting a U-Haul and changing your address, or building some new condos.

    You want to move to Wyoming and stop paying the diversity tax? I'd advise you not to try it. There's a treaty about development in Antarctica. Want to build on the seafloor? Well, you better not be within 200 nautical miles of Micronesia. Or, in the case of China's Nine-Dash Line, closer to 1000 miles.

    Find a place outside that, if you can. You will have to deal with the costs of seasteading and the costs of military defense of Nazi Germany because that is what you will be likened to, if you want an ethno-state. Going to Mars probably is cheaper.
    , @silviosilver
    Wrong on all three counts.

    I think you must like making yourself a laughing stock.
  223. @anonymous coward

    But what would be the point?

     

    Indeed, there's the rub! What would be the point of living on Mars?

    Venus’s natural resources are virtually impossible to harvest.
     
    Mars has no natural resources either. (Unless you count rocks as a natural resource.)

    Maybe, you don’t think a billion Europeans on Mars is inspiring, but I do.

     

    Maybe Europeans should try colonizing New York before setting their sights on Mars.

    “Maybe Europeans should try colonizing New York before setting their sights on Mars.” – Funny and a very good point. There were several colonizations of New York. Henry James when returned to New York from Europe in 1904 was taken aback with what he saw. New York became Jewish:

    “There were thousands of little chairs and almost as many little Jews; and there was music in an open rotunda, over which the little Jews wagged their big noses.”

  224. @Thulean Friend

    Are we “destroying” Earth?
     
    Yes.

    it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus
     
    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration. Microplastics is for instance almost entirely due to human pollution and the problem is just increasing. You are giving humanity enormous amounts of slack.

    Mars has no life.
     
    I was responding to your terraforming hypothetical. If we make Earth harder and harder to inhabit and simply escape to Mars without fixing the root causes what makes you think we won't repeat the same mistakes on Mars and then try to find a new planet, and then a new one, and then a one, and so on. Perhaps virus was the wrong word for such behaviour and parasite would be more fitting.

    Since AI is not conscious
     
    For now. The fear is about AI is really about AGI.

    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There's no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.

    Furthermore, given the strong likelihood of the simulation hypothesis being true, even being concerned at all could be spectacularly and comically irrational.

    Are we “destroying” Earth?

    Yes.

    Using more natural resources than are replaced in the year is not destruction, though it may be unwise if continued until the resources actually run out. Your source is questionable, however.

    It is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus

    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration.

    So if a brain makes decisions (such as to smoke, or to eat bad foods) would you consider it a pathogen upon the body that it harms, with the implied remedy of brain removal or something similar?

    That is the essential silliness of your point.

    Concepts such as “environmental degradation” are human-created.

    I was responding to your terraforming hypothetical. If we make Earth harder and harder to inhabit and simply escape to Mars without fixing the root causes what makes you think we won’t repeat the same mistakes on Mars and then try to find a new planet, and then a new one, and then a one, and so on.

    Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one.

    Perhaps virus was the wrong word for such behaviour and parasite would be more fitting.

    Would you consider the brain to be a parasite upon the body? Using up so much energy thinking and stuff? Often making decisions that harm the body?

    Perhaps you think that removal of the cortex is the moral thing to do, for the body?

    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There’s no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.

    So why have you not removed yourself?

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Concepts such as “environmental degradation” are human-created.
     
    It is also easily measured.

    Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one.

     

    A parasite's behaviour, summed up. You're proving my point. Most of humanity has no consideration for its surrounding and views everything else as expendable in its sole quest for survival. I will concede that this is a highly efficient pattern in the short run but it also makes me unsympathetic to humanity's angst in existential question. It is like having mercy over a pathological serial killer.

    So why have you not removed yourself?
     
    Silly retort. 80% or more of humanity deserves to be liquidated. Only a small minority of humans are considerate enough of their surroundings - social, environmental and ethical - to be worth saving. If whittled down to this last 20%, I would suddenly take matters of human survival very seriously, because these people are actually worth saving. Otherwise you'd save a minority of decent people at the cost of letting a much greater share of douchebags live. Clearly inefficient.

    However given that this would never happen and we are stuck with a large majority of parasitical and immoral humans, questions of human survival does not interest me much. I take no active interest in killing - which raises serious ethical questions - I am simply unmoved by the suffering of people who do not care about the harm they inflict on others (not just other humans but plants, animals and the planet itself). Why should I?
  225. @anonymous coward

    What was the point of settling America? That too was a costly, uncertain venture. Worked out rather well in the long run, of course.
     
    It was neither costly nor uncertain. It paid for itself and generated immense profits within one voyage.

    ...but I lack anything like the necessary technical knowledge to judge for sure.
     
    No offense, but we can tell, no need to remind us.

    'Space exploration' is a) technically impossible b) pointless because it could never turn a profit even theoretically c) way too premature, when even places like e.g. Wyoming aren't even colonized yet. (Not to mention Antarctica, the sea bed, etc.)

    places like e.g. Wyoming aren’t even colonized yet. (Not to mention Antarctica, the sea bed, etc

    Your proposal is eminently sensible, except, for the fact that we are talking about sovereignty here: a new nation. Not renting a U-Haul and changing your address, or building some new condos.

    You want to move to Wyoming and stop paying the diversity tax? I’d advise you not to try it. There’s a treaty about development in Antarctica. Want to build on the seafloor? Well, you better not be within 200 nautical miles of Micronesia. Or, in the case of China’s Nine-Dash Line, closer to 1000 miles.

    Find a place outside that, if you can. You will have to deal with the costs of seasteading and the costs of military defense of Nazi Germany because that is what you will be likened to, if you want an ethno-state. Going to Mars probably is cheaper.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    You're right. But see how you're trying to solve a legal issue with technological solutions? It doesn't work like that. (See the history of the Internet if you still have any doubts.)

    The legal and social problems will have to be solved here on Earth, shipping them to Mars won't magically make them go away.
  226. What to make of this pact signed by mayors of Budapest, Bratislava, Prague and Warsaw?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I’ll look it up later, but the Budapest mayor is a despicable liberal, so adjust your expectations accordingly. I think they are trying to circumvent their own national governments when dealing with Brussels and maybe trying to get the funds directly from there.
    , @songbird
    Makes me think of sanctuary cities and also London. Isn't there some model of politics which says that most historical political conflict is really urban vs. rural? This might validate that.

    The other question that it brings up is, what is the economic potential of pozzed countries to facilitate the spread of pozz into other nations by disbursing funds directly?

    The US Federal Government does this to white states, funding the settlement of Somalis, etc. In the days of Apartheid, I believe the Swedish government and some others funded the ANC to kill whites in South Africa.

    Common strategy in the past is to target smaller political units, to facilitate the spread of pozz. Want gay marriage? Throw money at a state legislature, rather than the federal level. It will create precedent which will spread.

    The Ukraine may not be as safe as some people think. Kiev would be easy enough to target.
  227. Idea I had:

    Given the current demographic trends in the US, and the current resistance of both the left and the right to deport the most dangerous of immigrant groups, can immigration restriction still lead to a good equilibrium?

    For instance in the UK, even if they halted all immigration, the Pakistani and Bangladeshian comunities still have trouble with assimilation, and their higher fertility rates make it that the UK will still have considerable trouble in the future.

    I have been thinking about this issue as of late, and have become convinced that the best way to reverse the demographic issues is use tax and fiscal incentives to halt birthrates. We know that it is difficult to increase birthrates via this type of policy, but surely it will be easy to decrease birthrates using this type of policy. For instance, you could tax Pakistani mothers who attempt to have a child 15-20 more percentage points on their income. Implementation isn’t exact, but I think this is in the right direction. Of course, this could differ depending on the circumstance of the individual discussed, etc.

    I actually, paradoxically, it will be easier than deportation as a means of removing unwanted, and socioeconomically unsuccessful groups. They may not be able to have kids, but at least they won’t be viewed in the public as being sent back to their death(which is true for many cases), and it is a more circumstantial policy.
    E.X If an immigrant group does bad and has a tax placed on people who attempt to have children, then perhaps in the future if crime and socioeconomic trends improve, the tax could be removed. And, it makes the public accustomed to viewing demographics not as uncontrollable trends, but something that they have influence over.

    I dunno, maybe it is all silly, but I feel like it is a more exact science, and less hurtful than wonton deportation.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    It won’t be implemented either, though, and it’s much slower, giving ample time to reverse it, should your government fail for other reasons.
  228. @Russiantroll
    Pakistanis were always Aryans you're a neanderthal

    Pakistan was Afghanistan in the past

    They're more pashtuns in pakistan than afghanistan

    The British never officially conquered the whole western and northern parts of Pakistan

    It was under the durrani empire

    Another mirpuri drowning in Afghan dick while fucking his first cousin.

    • Replies: @Russiantroll
    Which mirpuri? White people are weak

    Even Mirpuri guys in britain are not to be messed with either
  229. @AP
    Slavic surnames ending in -enko are of central or eastern Ukrainian origin. The reason many Russians have this surname is because Ukrainians have been moving to Russia for 250 years. It just means that the particular Russian has some Ukrainian ancestor.

    Within Ukraine, there is a split in terms of frequency of the surname ending in -uk vs. -enko.

    In the parts of Ukraine that after 1650 remained part of Poland -uk is the most popular surname ending; in the the central and eastern parts that left Poland -enko is the most popular:

    -uk vs. -enko:

    https://i.imgur.com/cKhJrdN.png

    Map of Europe, 1700:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f9/6b/83/f96b83b99d322dc57e3130e6a5d96248.png

    Interestingly enough, this map appears to be a good approximation of where the front lines might have ultimately ended up in Ukraine had Yanukovych managed to crush the Maidan in 2013-2014 and western Ukraine would have subsequently decided to rebel by arguing that Yanukovych has lost his legitimacy to rule Ukraine. In such a scenario, Vinnytsia and Zhytomyr might be the equivalents of Sloviansk and Mariupol in real life. In such a scenario, Kiev would likely be on tight lock-down by the pro-Yanukovych forces after the Maidan in this scenario gets crushed.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    There was no chance of that, considering the magnitude of stealing and money laundering Maidan made possible. According to documents and testimony acquired by Giuliani (https://yandex.ru/video/preview?filmId=15205935945776245932&noreask=1&parent-reqid=1576723402623977-1283815857502492924800122-sas1-5652&path=wizard&text=juliani+investigation+corruption)
    at least $5 billion of US taxpayer money and more than $7 billion of Ukrainian money was stolen via various schemes by high- and medium-ranking Dems. Turns out that Biden corruption was peanuts in the grand scheme of things. For this kind of money the thieves would shoot down the Moon.
  230. @reiner Tor
    Humans behave like any other living organisms. I resent the fact that cool animals (like the blue whale or the rhino) are disappearing, but let’s face it: invasive species have never shown the slightest concern for the local species they displaced or drove to extinction. It’s just life. Even if, of course, it’s far from inevitable that the blue whale should go extinct: we can probably prevent it.

    As to “destroying” Mars, it’s unclear what you mean by that. There’s nothing to be destroyed there, it’s just a piece of rock.

    Humans behave like any other …. It’s just life. … it’s just a piece of rock.

    You’re overdose a bit on cynicism – next you will be saying “your family are just carbon, hydrogen and oxygen”, “love is just release of dopamine and serotonin”, “music is just some vibrations of air” etc.

    There is not yet an atmosphere and ecosystem there to damage on Mars. But it is already undoubtedly something beautiful – a virgin and desolate world.

    Perhaps in some future centuries, some people will fuck it with badly designed terraforming, or military conflict, building nuclear power stations there (not really likely as that is already obsolete on earth, but perhaps something similar will emerge). Not that we will still be alive to see anything so exciting.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I was not cynical at all.

    I was responding to an insane commenter who literally proposed that humanity deserves to be exterminated for behaving like the rest of life (i.e. killing other life forms when it suits it) - but then why is it bad to kill other life forms, which are similarly motivated, as humans, albeit way less successful in it? Not that there's any logic to such insanity.

    And Mars is just a piece of rock, there's nothing to destroy. If there were regularly tourists visiting it, then perhaps you could say that the beautiful scenery was destroyed by humans terraforming it or building industrial outposts etc., but that's not the case. Right now the choice is between no-one ever seeing that scenery, or humans going there and perhaps eliminating it entirely. I fail to see why the latter is worse than the former.
  231. @Mr. XYZ
    Interestingly enough, this map appears to be a good approximation of where the front lines might have ultimately ended up in Ukraine had Yanukovych managed to crush the Maidan in 2013-2014 and western Ukraine would have subsequently decided to rebel by arguing that Yanukovych has lost his legitimacy to rule Ukraine. In such a scenario, Vinnytsia and Zhytomyr might be the equivalents of Sloviansk and Mariupol in real life. In such a scenario, Kiev would likely be on tight lock-down by the pro-Yanukovych forces after the Maidan in this scenario gets crushed.

    There was no chance of that, considering the magnitude of stealing and money laundering Maidan made possible. According to documents and testimony acquired by Giuliani (https://yandex.ru/video/preview?filmId=15205935945776245932&noreask=1&parent-reqid=1576723402623977-1283815857502492924800122-sas1-5652&path=wizard&text=juliani+investigation+corruption)
    at least $5 billion of US taxpayer money and more than $7 billion of Ukrainian money was stolen via various schemes by high- and medium-ranking Dems. Turns out that Biden corruption was peanuts in the grand scheme of things. For this kind of money the thieves would shoot down the Moon.

    • Replies: @AP
    Sources are ex-Yanukovich allies, neck-deep in corruption themselves. Hardly credible.
  232. @utu
    "...colonization’ thing is a charade to dupe dumb plebs into spending time on bullshit, the elites obviously have no plan to colonize anything whatsoever." - The part of the project of filling up and clogging the limited mental space with garbage. For some the Odyssey of Kardashians and for other the Colonization of Mars. Kardashians are more real.

    Kardashians are more real.

    And a century ago, people like you would be saying no differently about travelling to the moon.

    Goethe says you do not know your native language, until you have lived in another. Similarly, you don’t see your own country, until you have been outside it. And we never even realize where we live – except in a hypothetical, textbook way – without leaving the planet.

    Even seeing videos on YouTube are impossible to believe, to judge by the comments … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrFFbyuQqt4.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    And a century ago, people like you would be saying no differently about travelling to the moon.
     
    They had a point. Regardless of whether or not you're stupid enough to think that American astronauts actually walked on the moon, the point is that we're no closer to 'traveling to the moon' than we were in the 15th century.

    Moon bases or moon shuttles will not happen in this millennium, if ever.
  233. @Thorfinnsson


    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration. Microplastics is for instance almost entirely due to human pollution and the problem is just increasing. You are giving humanity enormous amounts of slack.
     
    You are privileging things other than humanity. Pagan, animistic nature worship.

    Environmental degradation is bad because we live here. Microplastics, for instance, are endrocrine disruptors. Even if we were able to avoid consuming them directly (which we're not) we end up exposed owing to bioaccumulation.

    If we do not exist, the Earth is irrelevant.


    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There’s no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.
     
    Looks like I was right all along. You should be shot. After all, there's no moral reason for you to care about your own survival other than narrow selfish ones.

    Realizing the interconnection between all things is the essence of the Pagan religions you deride.

  234. @AnonFromTN
    There was no chance of that, considering the magnitude of stealing and money laundering Maidan made possible. According to documents and testimony acquired by Giuliani (https://yandex.ru/video/preview?filmId=15205935945776245932&noreask=1&parent-reqid=1576723402623977-1283815857502492924800122-sas1-5652&path=wizard&text=juliani+investigation+corruption)
    at least $5 billion of US taxpayer money and more than $7 billion of Ukrainian money was stolen via various schemes by high- and medium-ranking Dems. Turns out that Biden corruption was peanuts in the grand scheme of things. For this kind of money the thieves would shoot down the Moon.

    Sources are ex-Yanukovich allies, neck-deep in corruption themselves. Hardly credible.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Sources are not just former attorney general Shokin, but Porky’s attorney general Lutsenko (who Yanuk actually imprisoned). It turns out that the latter tried to trace Ukrainian >$7 billion invested into Templeton, where it “disappeared”. The big shot there is – guess who? The major voice for impeachment Adam Schiff. Trump disturbed a serious money stealing and laundering mafia. Thieves of that caliber killed for far less.
  235. @Europe Europa
    White people who even entertain the idea that rap "music" is something of artistic merit are not at all "based" in my opinion. Enjoying and emulating Negro rap "music" is the first step on the road to glorifying Negroes.

    For some reason rap "music" seems to be extremely popular in Eastern Europe, significantly more so than it is with Western whites I would say. Black ghetto thug "culture" seems to appeal to a lot of Slavic men, they seem to see black ghetto thugs as the pinnacle of masculinity and toughness.

    Well, this “rap” is not too bad:

  236. @AP

    Even if that were to happen, it is fair to ask what would make us stop from destroying yet another planet like we are destroying Earth.
     
    Are we "destroying" Earth? We are changing it, making some parts more livable and others less so. We are harming some species and helping others. And we are very much as part of the Earth.

    Even if something we do happens to be harmful or a mistake, given that since we are the only part of our planet that is conscious of the planet and capable of making decisions concerning it and capable of changing it (our planet's brain, so to speak) it is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus. If someone chooses to do something harmful like smoke or drink excessively too regularly, one wouldn't think of his brain as some sort of harmful virus in the body, with the implication that it should be removed or shut down in order to help the body.

    Will we keep going from host to host as we destroy planets in our wake?
     
    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it. How can we possible "destroy" it if we change it so that it becomes capable of sustaining human life?

    It is the same reason why I am not terribly concerned about AI wiping out humanity. What we’re essentially saying is that we fear AI being as cruel as we were to those before us.
     
    1. Why does that make it less concerning?

    2. Since AI is not conscious but merely mimics consciousness an AI replacement/destruction of humanity would be the end of planetary consciousness - as far as we know the only such thing in the universe - and a regression to a dumb, unreflective, world (albeit one that would involve processes not seen in the pre-human world, though no one would be around to appreciate that, or indeed anything else). This would be tragic.

    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it…. Since AI is not conscious but merely mimics consciousness an AI replacement/destruction of humanity would be the end of planetary consciousness

    I thought you follow traditional religion. But now you propose this modern, Nietzschean,”Man creates meaning”.

    There is a romantic, or bit hubristic, version of this modern view in Jung’s autobiography

    There the cosmic meaning of consciousness became overwhelmingly clear to me… Man, I, in an invisible act of creation put the stamp of perfection on the world by giving it objective existence… man is indispensable for the completion of creation; that, in fact, he himself is the second creator of the world, who alone has given to the world its objective existence.

    But later – after he has a near-death – he writes more modestly.

    Although my belief in the world returned to me, I have never since entirely freed myself of the impression that this life is a segment of existence which is enacted in a three-dimensional boxlike universe especially set up for it.

    https://archive.org/stream/MemoriesDreamsReflectionsCarlJung/Memories,%20Dreams,%20Reflections%20-%20Carl%20Jung_djvu.txt

    • Replies: @AP

    I thought you follow traditional religion. But now you propose this modern, Nietzschean,”Man creates meaning”.
     
    No, I do not. I was contrasting man with nature.
  237. @reiner Tor

    It would be more efficient to upload our conscousness to a machine instead and skip the half-hearted gene-editing step. Our bodies are just repositories of our minds anyway.
     
    Your mind is pretty difficult to extract from your body. For example, being a coward means that the hormones rushing to your blood and brain change your consciousness in a way to compel you to do something else than you’d do in the absence of those hormones. Courage is, when either those hormones are not strong enough, or countermanded by some other hormones (like testosterone), or when your fear of something else (social death, death of a child, etc.) strengthens your resolve. Hormones also change your brain structure (for example by lifting weights, thus increasing testosterone levels in your blood, you’ll permanently alter your brain structure, so even if your testosterone levels fall back, you will still be more courageous, both physically and socially), how can you simulate such a thing? There are many other things, for example your positive and negative carnal experience (hunger, pain, cold, heat, orgasm, sweating, etc.) strongly influencing your behavior. The negative experience might affect you in a positive way, like overcoming pain or hunger can strengthen your resolve the next time.

    The “uploaded” versions of our minds will therefore be fundamentally different from our bodily selves, and thus they won’t be us in any meaningful sense of the word.

    It’s a pretty simplistic and incorrect description to say that our bodies are mere “repositories of our minds.”

    In meditation, you can experience a still consciousness that is separate from your body’s situation.

    The problem with this discussion about “uploading” your personality, or even recreating yourself biologically, is that it has no effect on you after your brain death.

    The fact some facsimile of yourself can continue to have an influence after you die, can have no effect on your life, which will no longer be there to know about it.

    People have been “uploading” their mind to an extent, for centuries already – by writing books that continue to be read by other minds after they die.

    For example, Sartre has “uploaded” much of his mind into books, and he writes in his autobiography that this was his dream as a child – to literally become a bookshelf . You can open a book of Sartre, and most of his views and personality is there “uploaded” in the text. But from his perspective it is irrelevant, as he is not even able to know that his “uploaded mind” will survive him (someone could have burned all his books the day after he had died, and it would make no difference for him).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    In meditation, you can experience a still consciousness that is separate from your body’s situation.
     
    It's still your brain which feels so. These special states of mind might be easiest to simulate, though. But they are just a very small part of the human experience.
  238. @AP
    Sources are ex-Yanukovich allies, neck-deep in corruption themselves. Hardly credible.

    Sources are not just former attorney general Shokin, but Porky’s attorney general Lutsenko (who Yanuk actually imprisoned). It turns out that the latter tried to trace Ukrainian >$7 billion invested into Templeton, where it “disappeared”. The big shot there is – guess who? The major voice for impeachment Adam Schiff. Trump disturbed a serious money stealing and laundering mafia. Thieves of that caliber killed for far less.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Interesting stuff. Can you provide any citations?

    It might be that Giuliani recently went to Ukraine to find more citations of this sort?...
    , @AP
    I was thinking of Derkach:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrii_Derkach

    It's all very murky.
  239. @AnonFromTN
    Sources are not just former attorney general Shokin, but Porky’s attorney general Lutsenko (who Yanuk actually imprisoned). It turns out that the latter tried to trace Ukrainian >$7 billion invested into Templeton, where it “disappeared”. The big shot there is – guess who? The major voice for impeachment Adam Schiff. Trump disturbed a serious money stealing and laundering mafia. Thieves of that caliber killed for far less.

    Interesting stuff. Can you provide any citations?

    It might be that Giuliani recently went to Ukraine to find more citations of this sort?…

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    The best link in English I found is this:
    https://yandex.ru/video/preview?filmId=15205935945776245932&noreask=1&parent-reqid=1576723402623977-1283815857502492924800122-sas1-5652&path=wizard&text=juliani+investigation+corruption
    There are lots of links in Russian, but Western MSM are deafeningly silent about this. The reason is obvious: you don‘t spread info damaging to your gang.
    The more I look at DNC and MSM, the better Trump looks. If all this obvious scum is against him, I have no choice but to support him. Maybe I’d even vote for him next time (did not vote at all in 2016).
  240. @AnonFromTN
    Sources are not just former attorney general Shokin, but Porky’s attorney general Lutsenko (who Yanuk actually imprisoned). It turns out that the latter tried to trace Ukrainian >$7 billion invested into Templeton, where it “disappeared”. The big shot there is – guess who? The major voice for impeachment Adam Schiff. Trump disturbed a serious money stealing and laundering mafia. Thieves of that caliber killed for far less.

    I was thinking of Derkach:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrii_Derkach

    It’s all very murky.

  241. @Dmitry

    Mars has no life and no intrinsic meaning to it other than what we give it.... Since AI is not conscious but merely mimics consciousness an AI replacement/destruction of humanity would be the end of planetary consciousness
     
    I thought you follow traditional religion. But now you propose this modern, Nietzschean,"Man creates meaning".

    There is a romantic, or bit hubristic, version of this modern view in Jung's autobiography

    There the cosmic meaning of consciousness became overwhelmingly clear to me... Man, I, in an invisible act of creation put the stamp of perfection on the world by giving it objective existence... man is indispensable for the completion of creation; that, in fact, he himself is the second creator of the world, who alone has given to the world its objective existence.

     

    But later - after he has a near-death - he writes more modestly.

    Although my belief in the world returned to me, I have never since entirely freed myself of the impression that this life is a segment of existence which is enacted in a three-dimensional boxlike universe especially set up for it.
     
    https://archive.org/stream/MemoriesDreamsReflectionsCarlJung/Memories,%20Dreams,%20Reflections%20-%20Carl%20Jung_djvu.txt

    I thought you follow traditional religion. But now you propose this modern, Nietzschean,”Man creates meaning”.

    No, I do not. I was contrasting man with nature.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    You said Mars has no meaning, than what humans decide - and presumably the same will be with earth. You're presenting this post-modern view, or let's say "Protagorean" (as Plato will reports on Protagoras) view. Also you said that the only consciousness is human - so presumably do not believe in consciousness of god, angels, non-human animals, etc.

    I'm not criticizing. To an extent, this modern view matches current evidence, although personally I think it will be a little vain and immodest.

  242. @songbird
    I don't believe it is possible to transmigrate the consciousness. The absolute best you could do on a theoretical level is create a carbon copy the consciousness. Without getting involved in ethical weeds, there might be good reasons for doing so. For companionship, for continued creative potential.

    Still, I think it would be a real technical challenge. I think of the banal subject of video game emulation. General rule is you need new hardware several times as capable as the old, to emulate old stuff. Wouldn't that be true of the brain as well? Then emulated games are often quite playable, but they are seldom exactly the same.

    Beyond that there are certain philosophical questions in play. Let's say you are emulated on more capable hardware. Maybe, your consciousness wouldn't want to be limited by the same constraints. Maybe, it wouldn't want its memory to be a bunch of melting clocks, but rather never to forget anything. Maybe, it would want Isaac Newton-level IQ, or something even higher than humans ever had. Wouldn't that make it very alien, and not a copy of you?

    “I don’t believe it is possible to transmigrate the consciousness. The absolute best you could do on a theoretical level is create a carbon copy the consciousness.”

    Well… perhaps not exactly.

    I’ve uploaded a paper that I’m sure you’ll find interesting: https://docdro.id/SjLeYml

    If things are taken one step at a time, the transmigration of consciousness is likely somehow possible — though this sort of scenario is, of course, entirely theoretical.

    Ultimately, you are your brain, but your brain is, in principle, very malleable.

    …The mere cloning or copying of one’s state of mind is an almost infinitely simpler matter. And even that ain’t easy.

    • Agree: songbird
  243. @Jatt Singh
    Another mirpuri drowning in Afghan dick while fucking his first cousin.

    Which mirpuri? White people are weak

    Even Mirpuri guys in britain are not to be messed with either

    • Replies: @Jatt Desi
    You're obviously a Mirpuri.

    Only they play up Af-Pak identity.

    Most Pakjabis are gay cucks who will go Hindu after Lahore falls.
    Sindhis too, about the only people who actually believe in Islam are identity-less cretins like

    Mirpuris who are neither Kashmir nor Panjabi or Potohari. LOL

    Pakistan wasn't Afghanistan, both were Endia.
    Today Indian Rapeublic is a gay blot on the land same with those other 2. (3 if u incl Bangla cucks)

    Anyway, no more hate on S Indians after this:

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/653857894483361792/657118449385865216/holocaust_is_a_lie_srilanka.webm
  244. @silviosilver

    Even the racism is wearing off
     
    Not at all surprising. You're all ticking time bombs. It's an inherent part of the leftard mentality so seize upon any half-baked pretext to cuck, just that some manage it sooner than others. Give it a few more years and I'd say it's an even money bet you'll be "experimenting" with black cock anally.

    Never ceases to amaze me how many on the right have very graphic – and often helpfully precise! – fantasies about being raped by feral africans which are then projected onto others.

    Reminds me of research findings showing that interracial porn was most commonly viewed in the more racist southern states and less so in more liberal northern states in the US.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Never ceases to amaze me how many on the right have very graphic – and often helpfully precise! – fantasies about being raped by feral africans which are then projected onto others.
     
    Seems like the first thing my post reminded you of is your fantasies. So which one of us is actually projecting here?

    Reminds me of research findings showing that interracial porn was most commonly viewed in the more racist southern states and less so in more liberal northern states in the US.
     
    What makes you so sure those viewers are white? (Your subconscious expectation that other whites share your fantasies?)
  245. @Thulean Friend
    Never ceases to amaze me how many on the right have very graphic - and often helpfully precise! - fantasies about being raped by feral africans which are then projected onto others.

    Reminds me of research findings showing that interracial porn was most commonly viewed in the more racist southern states and less so in more liberal northern states in the US.

    Never ceases to amaze me how many on the right have very graphic – and often helpfully precise! – fantasies about being raped by feral africans which are then projected onto others.

    Seems like the first thing my post reminded you of is your fantasies. So which one of us is actually projecting here?

    Reminds me of research findings showing that interracial porn was most commonly viewed in the more racist southern states and less so in more liberal northern states in the US.

    What makes you so sure those viewers are white? (Your subconscious expectation that other whites share your fantasies?)

  246. @Russiantroll
    Which mirpuri? White people are weak

    Even Mirpuri guys in britain are not to be messed with either

    You’re obviously a Mirpuri.

    Only they play up Af-Pak identity.

    Most Pakjabis are gay cucks who will go Hindu after Lahore falls.
    Sindhis too, about the only people who actually believe in Islam are identity-less cretins like

    Mirpuris who are neither Kashmir nor Panjabi or Potohari. LOL

    Pakistan wasn’t Afghanistan, both were Endia.
    Today Indian Rapeublic is a gay blot on the land same with those other 2. (3 if u incl Bangla cucks)

    Anyway, no more hate on S Indians after this:

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Russiantroll
    First all Sindh was always different from Hind even before Arabs

    Second there is no map in existence that shows India going over Pakistan

    Third Sindhis/Pashtuns/Balochis/Kalash/Paharis are already proven they are genetically different from Indians as harappa and gedmatch reveals.

    4th Mirpuris are a tough race in britain, they pimp your jatt women out with the white women in britain and even your white master cant stop them

    5th sindh/pashtun/balochi/paharis were buddhist before Islam not hindu

    Some minority hindus lived in Lahore no where else

    Sindhis were buddhist before bin qasim arrived
  247. @anonymous coward

    What was the point of settling America? That too was a costly, uncertain venture. Worked out rather well in the long run, of course.
     
    It was neither costly nor uncertain. It paid for itself and generated immense profits within one voyage.

    ...but I lack anything like the necessary technical knowledge to judge for sure.
     
    No offense, but we can tell, no need to remind us.

    'Space exploration' is a) technically impossible b) pointless because it could never turn a profit even theoretically c) way too premature, when even places like e.g. Wyoming aren't even colonized yet. (Not to mention Antarctica, the sea bed, etc.)

    Wrong on all three counts.

    I think you must like making yourself a laughing stock.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    Wow, you sure convinced me with your stunning dialectic. Please continue to produce such, uh, nuggets of wisdom, o sage!

    P.S. "Your wrong, retard" is not an argument. Also, it is an emotional reaction that demonstrates that you have deep-seated issues tying your identity to ideological mind viruses.

  248. @songbird

    had in mind a continous stream traversing multiple bodies (some biological, some robotic) but still being part of the same whole.
     
    Interesting idea. Guess it would require cybernetic implants, and I wasn't thinking of that.


    Do you mean that the two parts would communicate autonomously with each other, as seperate parts?
     
    Mainly, I was thinking of scenarios such as someone's elderly spouse died, or someone exploring a distant and dangerous place with limited supplies (but perhaps intelligent machines would obviate the need for this). A lot of identical twins are best friends, so I guess it might work with copies too.

    Even if the technical hurdles were too high, and the result was just an insentient simulacrum, it may still have a certain value. Imagine a grandfather AI that would be capable of low-level household tasks, and which might occasionally pester their descendants to get married, or offer banal but useful advice, or recommend books or movies he enjoyed.


    Rindermann has shown in his research that people with greater intellect have greater space for moral considerations
     
    I am a general advocate of IQ, believing that the useful aspects of the concept are severely under-utilized. And I do believe smarter people are generally more moral, as a whole.

    But I don't think increasing IQ would mean automatic progress, especially, if we are talking about transhuman levels. It could even potentially cause more problems than it solves. One problem is that IQ is often used to rationalize instincts. Another is that IQ leads to introspection, and there may be such a thing as too much. There are components of the brain that just aren't measured by IQ, and they may not play nice with high IQ. What would happen if you elevated the mind of some criminal? Would the emulation keep the bad parts for fidelity, while making the whole much smarter and more dangerous?

    I was thinking of scenarios such as someone’s elderly spouse died, or someone exploring a distant and dangerous place with limited supplies (but perhaps intelligent machines would obviate the need for this). A lot of identical twins are best friends, so I guess it might work with copies too.

    “Lika barn leka bäst” as we say here. This is a fascinating idea. Would potentially solve the loneliness epidemic for many people, especially older men (who are often the most affected from my understanding of the research). I think the idea that “opposites attract” that was popular some time ago is one of the worst memes in social science which is thankfully phasing out.

    OTOH, if we are at such an advanced technological stage it would perhaps be more resource efficient to simply gene edit out our need for companionship which is genetically hardwired into us. Humans are social animals after all, but that is also evolutionarily driven. This is what ethicists mean when they are talking about “playing god”, and warn against it. Though I do not have any moral quibbles about it, though perhaps I should.

    Imagine a grandfather AI that would be capable of low-level household tasks, and which might occasionally pester their descendants to get married, or offer banal but useful advice, or recommend books or movies he enjoyed.

    Would you enjoy this or even find it useful? I get annoyed even by reading this 🙂 Then again, I place extremely high value on freedom of action and thought. I may be an outlier here.

    One problem is that IQ is often used to rationalize instincts.

    But many of our instincts are passed down precisely because of rational reasons. It makes sense to have them from birth rather than relearning all the basic stuff. How would this be qualitivately different?

    There are components of the brain that just aren’t measured by IQ

    I dislike the term ’emotional IQ’, but there’s something to be said for what it aims to capture. Shockingly, we still dont have a proper measurement for creativity! Worse, there doesn’t seem to be much interest in these matters either among the general public.

    What would happen if you elevated the mind of some criminal? Would the emulation keep the bad parts for fidelity, while making the whole much smarter and more dangerous?

    This is a valid concern but humanity’s worst elements did not do better in the human capital shock that we’ve seen over the past few hundred years if you look at murder rate, wars, longevivity, gender equity and so on. Why would there be such a radical change now from the previous pattern?

    • Replies: @songbird

    Would you enjoy this or even find it useful?
     
    I actually kind of like the idea of the book/movie recommendations. Reason is that I enjoy older, narrow-interest stuff. And presumably when one shares a certain amount of genes, it is more likely that tastes coincide to a degree.

    I wouldn't want to talk to an imitation of my dead grandfather every day, but I think it would be useful for rare occasions. Help preserve family history, genealogy, traditions, maybe family recipes.

    Mainly, I think of my disembodied voice haunting my descendants to have children and reproduce my genes. Maybe, it is an idea that would only appeal to Japanese. But I think we need to consider radical solutions to help turn around the fertility problem. I think we should try to culturally adopt some of the ideas of Asians, like respect for ones elders and ancestor worship. Of course, Asians don't have good fertility, but I think some degree of it would go some distance to solving the free-rider problem, which impacts fertility.

    But many of our instincts are passed down precisely because of rational reasons./How would this be qualitivately different?
     
    This is true to an extent. For instance, I really hate the attempt to moralize and do away with the emotion of hate. In moderation, hate serves an essential purpose - it is a motivating force. Motivating forces are positive. The moral end of it is what you chose to do with it. And that is a different matter than saying hate is wrong.

    But not everyone has the same instincts - there are also competing political instincts. These I would argue are evolutionary strategies related to resource acquisition. As Jonathon Haidt has said, we have are political instincts first and then rationalize them, and then make the mistake of thinking that they aren't instincts but reasoned arguments.

    Why would there be such a radical change now from the previous pattern?
     
    I'm not sure that the reduction in violence is due to the Flynn Effect, but it is an interesting question. What I would propose that it is due to increased wealth - in the old days, someone might cut your throat to eat, now the government mails them a check, doing the stealing for them. Then there has been some level of genetic pacification, and law enforcement itself is a deterrent.

    Is the Flynn Effect really something positive? I am not sure. It only improves the IQ scores of people at the bottom, not in the smart fraction. It is more an improvement in test-taking ability, isn't it? I've wondered even if it might be a minor corollary to pozz.
  249. @silviosilver
    Wrong on all three counts.

    I think you must like making yourself a laughing stock.

    Wow, you sure convinced me with your stunning dialectic. Please continue to produce such, uh, nuggets of wisdom, o sage!

    P.S. “Your wrong, retard” is not an argument. Also, it is an emotional reaction that demonstrates that you have deep-seated issues tying your identity to ideological mind viruses.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Wow, you sure convinced me with your stunning dialectic.
     
    And you me with your argument by assertion.

    Also, it is an emotional reaction that demonstrates that you have deep-seated issues tying your identity to ideological mind viruses.
     
    Says the moon hoaxer.
  250. @Daniel Chieh
    You do have the advantage of beef-consumption, but it may not avail you sufficiently against the BASED SIHKS!!!

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1199794

    Na, even Rural Pakistan is against it.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Isn't this a pakistani dish though? It looks decent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihari
  251. @songbird

    places like e.g. Wyoming aren’t even colonized yet. (Not to mention Antarctica, the sea bed, etc
     
    Your proposal is eminently sensible, except, for the fact that we are talking about sovereignty here: a new nation. Not renting a U-Haul and changing your address, or building some new condos.

    You want to move to Wyoming and stop paying the diversity tax? I'd advise you not to try it. There's a treaty about development in Antarctica. Want to build on the seafloor? Well, you better not be within 200 nautical miles of Micronesia. Or, in the case of China's Nine-Dash Line, closer to 1000 miles.

    Find a place outside that, if you can. You will have to deal with the costs of seasteading and the costs of military defense of Nazi Germany because that is what you will be likened to, if you want an ethno-state. Going to Mars probably is cheaper.

    You’re right. But see how you’re trying to solve a legal issue with technological solutions? It doesn’t work like that. (See the history of the Internet if you still have any doubts.)

    The legal and social problems will have to be solved here on Earth, shipping them to Mars won’t magically make them go away.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I don't really have faith in legal or political solutions. There is an old expression "In the Halls of Justice, the only justice is in the halls."

    The legal and social problems will have to be solved here on Earth, shipping them to Mars won’t magically make them go away.
     
    The secret sauce to Mars colonization is that it is soft eugenics - you merely only allow people above some threshold of intelligence to go. And it is self-association, you only go with people with whom you share a culture. Of course, that wouldn't solve all problems, but it would go a long way to solving many.

    Of course, we are speaking in the language of dreams here. As I said, I am not sure that it is even possible to go anymore. And anyway there is a fatal flaw: you kind of need a nation on Earth to get your nation on Mars.

  252. @Dmitry

    Kardashians are more real.
     
    And a century ago, people like you would be saying no differently about travelling to the moon.

    Goethe says you do not know your native language, until you have lived in another. Similarly, you don't see your own country, until you have been outside it. And we never even realize where we live - except in a hypothetical, textbook way - without leaving the planet.

    Even seeing videos on YouTube are impossible to believe, to judge by the comments ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrFFbyuQqt4.

    And a century ago, people like you would be saying no differently about travelling to the moon.

    They had a point. Regardless of whether or not you’re stupid enough to think that American astronauts actually walked on the moon, the point is that we’re no closer to ‘traveling to the moon’ than we were in the 15th century.

    Moon bases or moon shuttles will not happen in this millennium, if ever.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2019/10/29/the-spacex-starship-is-a-very-big-deal/

    You should have a read of that

    https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2019/11/02/starlink-is-a-very-big-deal/

    And this too, in fact anyone with an interest in Space/Mars/the Moon ect should read both links

  253. @Thulean Friend
    From a British children's encylopedia on the Irish. The 1950s.

    https://i.imgur.com/PBfLqiV.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/PItGX2l.jpg

    My favourite part:

    Then there is the tall, often blue-eyed, engaging Irishman of easy address and good-humoured air, who would wile a bird from a bough by his fluent tongue, ready for adventure anywhere.
     
    The progenitor of the Irish writer has thus been found.
  254. @Epigon
    What to make of this pact signed by mayors of Budapest, Bratislava, Prague and Warsaw?

    I’ll look it up later, but the Budapest mayor is a despicable liberal, so adjust your expectations accordingly. I think they are trying to circumvent their own national governments when dealing with Brussels and maybe trying to get the funds directly from there.

    • Replies: @AP
    Ironically this might not be bad for the country. People ineffectual on a national level, still get a lot of money from Brussels that otherwise would not give it due to the national governments. As long as the money is spent on useful stuff like infrastructure rather than on "cultural" propaganda.
    , @Thulean Friend

    the Budapest mayor is a
     
    A hero on climate change.

    https://i.imgur.com/Nv0J2wb.jpg

    Car cucks need to be phased out from cities completely and while I appreciate him making a point taking his bicycle to work, he ought to be much more radical. Unfortunately, the reactionary electorate (even among supposed 'liberals') would probably not let happen fast enough. The ideal should be Copenhagen or Amsterdam but preferably even more radical.
  255. @John Arthur
    Idea I had:

    Given the current demographic trends in the US, and the current resistance of both the left and the right to deport the most dangerous of immigrant groups, can immigration restriction still lead to a good equilibrium?

    For instance in the UK, even if they halted all immigration, the Pakistani and Bangladeshian comunities still have trouble with assimilation, and their higher fertility rates make it that the UK will still have considerable trouble in the future.

    I have been thinking about this issue as of late, and have become convinced that the best way to reverse the demographic issues is use tax and fiscal incentives to halt birthrates. We know that it is difficult to increase birthrates via this type of policy, but surely it will be easy to decrease birthrates using this type of policy. For instance, you could tax Pakistani mothers who attempt to have a child 15-20 more percentage points on their income. Implementation isn't exact, but I think this is in the right direction. Of course, this could differ depending on the circumstance of the individual discussed, etc.

    I actually, paradoxically, it will be easier than deportation as a means of removing unwanted, and socioeconomically unsuccessful groups. They may not be able to have kids, but at least they won't be viewed in the public as being sent back to their death(which is true for many cases), and it is a more circumstantial policy.
    E.X If an immigrant group does bad and has a tax placed on people who attempt to have children, then perhaps in the future if crime and socioeconomic trends improve, the tax could be removed. And, it makes the public accustomed to viewing demographics not as uncontrollable trends, but something that they have influence over.

    I dunno, maybe it is all silly, but I feel like it is a more exact science, and less hurtful than wonton deportation.

    It won’t be implemented either, though, and it’s much slower, giving ample time to reverse it, should your government fail for other reasons.

  256. @anonymous coward
    Wow, you sure convinced me with your stunning dialectic. Please continue to produce such, uh, nuggets of wisdom, o sage!

    P.S. "Your wrong, retard" is not an argument. Also, it is an emotional reaction that demonstrates that you have deep-seated issues tying your identity to ideological mind viruses.

    Wow, you sure convinced me with your stunning dialectic.

    And you me with your argument by assertion.

    Also, it is an emotional reaction that demonstrates that you have deep-seated issues tying your identity to ideological mind viruses.

    Says the moon hoaxer.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    FYI: Your techniques of shouting down and disqualifying on technicalities are exactly the same as those used by wreckers to destroy the lives of 'racists, sexists and homophobes'.

    Enjoy being the one eaten last. (I hope the pleasure lasts, lol.)
  257. @reiner Tor
    I’ll look it up later, but the Budapest mayor is a despicable liberal, so adjust your expectations accordingly. I think they are trying to circumvent their own national governments when dealing with Brussels and maybe trying to get the funds directly from there.

    Ironically this might not be bad for the country. People ineffectual on a national level, still get a lot of money from Brussels that otherwise would not give it due to the national governments. As long as the money is spent on useful stuff like infrastructure rather than on “cultural” propaganda.

    • Agree: Epigon
  258. Why do Americans always refer to Christmas as “the holidays”? It seems like extreme political correctness to me, even in countries like Britain and Sweden people say “Christmas”. The standard phrase there is “Happy Holidays”, it’s rare to see or hear the word “Christmas” actually used.

    Why do they persist with such stupid and weak political correctness when not even the most left wing countries in Europe do? I’ve noticed that Americans are often surprised that Europeans still say “Christmas” by default, I guess because they assume Europe is more politically correct than them so they can’t imagine Europeans being able to say “Christmas”.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    (((Americans)))
     
    Also, 'shabbos goyim'.
    , @Matra
    Also in Britain most people still refer to their 'Christian name' rather than the bland Americanism 'first name'. I think that's now changing as the British usually adopt the bad things, but never any of the good things, from America.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    The Jews, what else?
  259. @silviosilver

    Wow, you sure convinced me with your stunning dialectic.
     
    And you me with your argument by assertion.

    Also, it is an emotional reaction that demonstrates that you have deep-seated issues tying your identity to ideological mind viruses.
     
    Says the moon hoaxer.

    FYI: Your techniques of shouting down and disqualifying on technicalities are exactly the same as those used by wreckers to destroy the lives of ‘racists, sexists and homophobes’.

    Enjoy being the one eaten last. (I hope the pleasure lasts, lol.)

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Hey believe what you want man. I wouldn't dream of trying to get you fired for your moon hoax theories. Wouldn't even bring it up if I knew you in real life.

    But it's pretty clear to me you have some mass psychological hang up about space, and my guess it's related to your devout Christer beliefs, as though humans in space would disprove God or something.

  260. @Europe Europa
    Why do Americans always refer to Christmas as "the holidays"? It seems like extreme political correctness to me, even in countries like Britain and Sweden people say "Christmas". The standard phrase there is "Happy Holidays", it's rare to see or hear the word "Christmas" actually used.

    Why do they persist with such stupid and weak political correctness when not even the most left wing countries in Europe do? I've noticed that Americans are often surprised that Europeans still say "Christmas" by default, I guess because they assume Europe is more politically correct than them so they can't imagine Europeans being able to say "Christmas".

    (((Americans)))

    Also, ‘shabbos goyim’.

  261. @anonymous coward
    FYI: Your techniques of shouting down and disqualifying on technicalities are exactly the same as those used by wreckers to destroy the lives of 'racists, sexists and homophobes'.

    Enjoy being the one eaten last. (I hope the pleasure lasts, lol.)

    Hey believe what you want man. I wouldn’t dream of trying to get you fired for your moon hoax theories. Wouldn’t even bring it up if I knew you in real life.

    But it’s pretty clear to me you have some mass psychological hang up about space, and my guess it’s related to your devout Christer beliefs, as though humans in space would disprove God or something.

  262. @Daniel Chieh
    You do have the advantage of beef-consumption, but it may not avail you sufficiently against the BASED SIHKS!!!

    LOL BRUAAAH WE GONNA RECK DA MUGHAL YEA!!

    • Replies: @Russiantroll
    Punjabi Jatts are filthy hindus with turbans

    Anybody can tell a Azad Kashmiri from a Punjabi from miles away in terms of looks and attitude in britain

    Azad Kashmiris are buddhist before Islam

    This is why AJK and Pathans live in Bradford without issues while Punjabi jatts live in Southall and are also cowardly in nature.

    Sikhs and Hindus are slaves to white people, always have been and always will be

    Mirpuris and Pathans are warriors and fight them
  263. @Thulean Friend
    Marin floats idea of a four-day, 24-hour work week

    We need more women in politics. Sanna Marin is already delivering fresh thinking. I happen to very satisfied with what I do, so doing it for 70 or even 80 hours is not a major isssue, but I am also privileged in a way that most people are not.

    Most people do not enjoy their work and it is drudgery for them. There is no reason to take away their free time unnecessarily. Space and time is happiness in of itself. Anyone who has ever talked to, or befriended, blue-collar workers will know that many of them don't have energy for anything at the end of the day. They are like automotons.

    The main problem is that tax evasion is reaching record highs. People are productive enough, the issue is an increasing share of their wealth is siphoned off to tax havens.

    https://www.nber.org/papers/w23805

    https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2019/09/tackling-global-tax-havens-shaxon.htm

    Piketty makes the point that most episodes of global inequality levelling off has been in the wake of wars, revolution and slaughter in general. It's time for another bloodletting of the oligarchical class.

    It’s time for another bloodletting of the oligarchical class.

    Finally, an Unz Review comment I can get 100% behind!

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
  264. @Europe Europa
    Why do Americans always refer to Christmas as "the holidays"? It seems like extreme political correctness to me, even in countries like Britain and Sweden people say "Christmas". The standard phrase there is "Happy Holidays", it's rare to see or hear the word "Christmas" actually used.

    Why do they persist with such stupid and weak political correctness when not even the most left wing countries in Europe do? I've noticed that Americans are often surprised that Europeans still say "Christmas" by default, I guess because they assume Europe is more politically correct than them so they can't imagine Europeans being able to say "Christmas".

    Also in Britain most people still refer to their ‘Christian name’ rather than the bland Americanism ‘first name’. I think that’s now changing as the British usually adopt the bad things, but never any of the good things, from America.

  265. @Europe Europa
    Why do Americans always refer to Christmas as "the holidays"? It seems like extreme political correctness to me, even in countries like Britain and Sweden people say "Christmas". The standard phrase there is "Happy Holidays", it's rare to see or hear the word "Christmas" actually used.

    Why do they persist with such stupid and weak political correctness when not even the most left wing countries in Europe do? I've noticed that Americans are often surprised that Europeans still say "Christmas" by default, I guess because they assume Europe is more politically correct than them so they can't imagine Europeans being able to say "Christmas".

    The Jews, what else?

    • Agree: neutral
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Not all of them! Ho, ho, ho! :-)

    https://youtu.be/WQt3Us0N9YU

    He's written about this too, Ben Stein seems to be quite rational and believable in his views about Christmas:

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/merry-christmas-ben-stein_b_4474171

  266. @Mr. Hack
    Interesting stuff. Can you provide any citations?

    It might be that Giuliani recently went to Ukraine to find more citations of this sort?...

    The best link in English I found is this:
    https://yandex.ru/video/preview?filmId=15205935945776245932&noreask=1&parent-reqid=1576723402623977-1283815857502492924800122-sas1-5652&path=wizard&text=juliani+investigation+corruption
    There are lots of links in Russian, but Western MSM are deafeningly silent about this. The reason is obvious: you don‘t spread info damaging to your gang.
    The more I look at DNC and MSM, the better Trump looks. If all this obvious scum is against him, I have no choice but to support him. Maybe I’d even vote for him next time (did not vote at all in 2016).

    • Replies: @AP

    The more I look at DNC and MSM, the better Trump looks.
     
    On this I can agree.
    , @Mr. Hack
    I didn't vote for him either in 2016, but wrote in Rob Portman senator from Ohio. I'll have to take a closer look at Trump this time around, the Dems really seem evil. wicked, mean and nasty, more than ever. Thanks for the link. I'll read it when I have a chance (working right now).
  267. @Thorfinnsson
    The Jews, what else?

    Not all of them! Ho, ho, ho! 🙂

    He’s written about this too, Ben Stein seems to be quite rational and believable in his views about Christmas:

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/merry-christmas-ben-stein_b_4474171

  268. @Epigon
    What to make of this pact signed by mayors of Budapest, Bratislava, Prague and Warsaw?

    Makes me think of sanctuary cities and also London. Isn’t there some model of politics which says that most historical political conflict is really urban vs. rural? This might validate that.

    The other question that it brings up is, what is the economic potential of pozzed countries to facilitate the spread of pozz into other nations by disbursing funds directly?

    The US Federal Government does this to white states, funding the settlement of Somalis, etc. In the days of Apartheid, I believe the Swedish government and some others funded the ANC to kill whites in South Africa.

    Common strategy in the past is to target smaller political units, to facilitate the spread of pozz. Want gay marriage? Throw money at a state legislature, rather than the federal level. It will create precedent which will spread.

    The Ukraine may not be as safe as some people think. Kiev would be easy enough to target.

  269. @Jatt Desi
    https://www.dawn.com/news/1199794

    Na, even Rural Pakistan is against it.

    Isn’t this a pakistani dish though? It looks decent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihari

    • Replies: @Russiantroll
    He is jealous Pakistanis are a thousand times better than Indians in looks and hygiene.
    , @Russiantroll
    Pakistan was never india to begin with

    [Img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Ancient_Khorasan_highlighted.jpg/300px-Ancient_Khorasan_highlighted.jpg[/img]
  270. @AnonFromTN
    The best link in English I found is this:
    https://yandex.ru/video/preview?filmId=15205935945776245932&noreask=1&parent-reqid=1576723402623977-1283815857502492924800122-sas1-5652&path=wizard&text=juliani+investigation+corruption
    There are lots of links in Russian, but Western MSM are deafeningly silent about this. The reason is obvious: you don‘t spread info damaging to your gang.
    The more I look at DNC and MSM, the better Trump looks. If all this obvious scum is against him, I have no choice but to support him. Maybe I’d even vote for him next time (did not vote at all in 2016).

    The more I look at DNC and MSM, the better Trump looks.

    On this I can agree.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  271. @Thulean Friend

    I was thinking of scenarios such as someone’s elderly spouse died, or someone exploring a distant and dangerous place with limited supplies (but perhaps intelligent machines would obviate the need for this). A lot of identical twins are best friends, so I guess it might work with copies too.
     
    "Lika barn leka bäst" as we say here. This is a fascinating idea. Would potentially solve the loneliness epidemic for many people, especially older men (who are often the most affected from my understanding of the research). I think the idea that "opposites attract" that was popular some time ago is one of the worst memes in social science which is thankfully phasing out.

    OTOH, if we are at such an advanced technological stage it would perhaps be more resource efficient to simply gene edit out our need for companionship which is genetically hardwired into us. Humans are social animals after all, but that is also evolutionarily driven. This is what ethicists mean when they are talking about "playing god", and warn against it. Though I do not have any moral quibbles about it, though perhaps I should.


    Imagine a grandfather AI that would be capable of low-level household tasks, and which might occasionally pester their descendants to get married, or offer banal but useful advice, or recommend books or movies he enjoyed.
     
    Would you enjoy this or even find it useful? I get annoyed even by reading this :) Then again, I place extremely high value on freedom of action and thought. I may be an outlier here.

    One problem is that IQ is often used to rationalize instincts.
     
    But many of our instincts are passed down precisely because of rational reasons. It makes sense to have them from birth rather than relearning all the basic stuff. How would this be qualitivately different?

    There are components of the brain that just aren’t measured by IQ
     
    I dislike the term 'emotional IQ', but there's something to be said for what it aims to capture. Shockingly, we still dont have a proper measurement for creativity! Worse, there doesn't seem to be much interest in these matters either among the general public.

    What would happen if you elevated the mind of some criminal? Would the emulation keep the bad parts for fidelity, while making the whole much smarter and more dangerous?
     
    This is a valid concern but humanity's worst elements did not do better in the human capital shock that we've seen over the past few hundred years if you look at murder rate, wars, longevivity, gender equity and so on. Why would there be such a radical change now from the previous pattern?

    Would you enjoy this or even find it useful?

    I actually kind of like the idea of the book/movie recommendations. Reason is that I enjoy older, narrow-interest stuff. And presumably when one shares a certain amount of genes, it is more likely that tastes coincide to a degree.

    I wouldn’t want to talk to an imitation of my dead grandfather every day, but I think it would be useful for rare occasions. Help preserve family history, genealogy, traditions, maybe family recipes.

    Mainly, I think of my disembodied voice haunting my descendants to have children and reproduce my genes. Maybe, it is an idea that would only appeal to Japanese. But I think we need to consider radical solutions to help turn around the fertility problem. I think we should try to culturally adopt some of the ideas of Asians, like respect for ones elders and ancestor worship. Of course, Asians don’t have good fertility, but I think some degree of it would go some distance to solving the free-rider problem, which impacts fertility.

    But many of our instincts are passed down precisely because of rational reasons./How would this be qualitivately different?

    This is true to an extent. For instance, I really hate the attempt to moralize and do away with the emotion of hate. In moderation, hate serves an essential purpose – it is a motivating force. Motivating forces are positive. The moral end of it is what you chose to do with it. And that is a different matter than saying hate is wrong.

    But not everyone has the same instincts – there are also competing political instincts. These I would argue are evolutionary strategies related to resource acquisition. As Jonathon Haidt has said, we have are political instincts first and then rationalize them, and then make the mistake of thinking that they aren’t instincts but reasoned arguments.

    Why would there be such a radical change now from the previous pattern?

    I’m not sure that the reduction in violence is due to the Flynn Effect, but it is an interesting question. What I would propose that it is due to increased wealth – in the old days, someone might cut your throat to eat, now the government mails them a check, doing the stealing for them. Then there has been some level of genetic pacification, and law enforcement itself is a deterrent.

    Is the Flynn Effect really something positive? I am not sure. It only improves the IQ scores of people at the bottom, not in the smart fraction. It is more an improvement in test-taking ability, isn’t it? I’ve wondered even if it might be a minor corollary to pozz.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    I used the agree button not just to signal my approval of its quality but really the chain of comments that you've contributed to this thread. You've been an example to follow in how you've engaged in civility but also your seriousness in ideas.

    Just one final note of mine then I consider this exchange largely complete.


    What I would propose that it is due to increased wealth – in the old days, someone might cut your throat to eat, now the government mails them a check, doing the stealing for them. Then there has been some level of genetic pacification, and law enforcement itself is a deterrent.

     

    My humble suggestion would be to say that wealth has followed ideas, not the other way around. It is true all ruling dispensions seek moral justification of their primacy, but that does not make the West unique. The West did not become rich because it exploited or colonised the world. Those things have been attempted by everyone in all of human history. Nor was the West more ruthless or brutal than its peer competitors in moral terms. Quite the contrary.

    The primary difference lay in a self-made liberal intellectual revolution. This intellectual revolution advocated greater equality, tolerance and compassion. These are values the modern right claims are weakness, but they created greater internal solidarity and fairness (however piecemeal and staggered) compared to the feudal systems of the past where peasants were little better off than slaves. By freeing up huge amounts of previously unused human capital, the innovative capacities of the West exploded.

    These moral ideas are therefore inextricably linked to the rise of the West, which is why it is amusing to me why so many on the right suffer from historical amnesia. Their intellectual forefathers largely lost the debate the in West (unlikely in virutally every other region with their emphasis on hierarchy and traditional feudal structures), and the West rose to greatness as a consequence and dragged the rest of the world into the future as a result, on its own terms.

  272. @anonymous coward
    You're right. But see how you're trying to solve a legal issue with technological solutions? It doesn't work like that. (See the history of the Internet if you still have any doubts.)

    The legal and social problems will have to be solved here on Earth, shipping them to Mars won't magically make them go away.

    I don’t really have faith in legal or political solutions. There is an old expression “In the Halls of Justice, the only justice is in the halls.”

    The legal and social problems will have to be solved here on Earth, shipping them to Mars won’t magically make them go away.

    The secret sauce to Mars colonization is that it is soft eugenics – you merely only allow people above some threshold of intelligence to go. And it is self-association, you only go with people with whom you share a culture. Of course, that wouldn’t solve all problems, but it would go a long way to solving many.

    Of course, we are speaking in the language of dreams here. As I said, I am not sure that it is even possible to go anymore. And anyway there is a fatal flaw: you kind of need a nation on Earth to get your nation on Mars.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    The secret sauce to Mars colonization is that it is soft eugenics – you merely only allow people above some threshold of intelligence to go.
     
    You don't need Mars for that, merely abolishing feminism will do. Again, a technological solution for what is a social problem.
  273. @AnonFromTN
    The best link in English I found is this:
    https://yandex.ru/video/preview?filmId=15205935945776245932&noreask=1&parent-reqid=1576723402623977-1283815857502492924800122-sas1-5652&path=wizard&text=juliani+investigation+corruption
    There are lots of links in Russian, but Western MSM are deafeningly silent about this. The reason is obvious: you don‘t spread info damaging to your gang.
    The more I look at DNC and MSM, the better Trump looks. If all this obvious scum is against him, I have no choice but to support him. Maybe I’d even vote for him next time (did not vote at all in 2016).

    I didn’t vote for him either in 2016, but wrote in Rob Portman senator from Ohio. I’ll have to take a closer look at Trump this time around, the Dems really seem evil. wicked, mean and nasty, more than ever. Thanks for the link. I’ll read it when I have a chance (working right now).

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    You really should since the democrats have by default become the party of demons. Possibly literal.
  274. @reiner Tor
    I’ll look it up later, but the Budapest mayor is a despicable liberal, so adjust your expectations accordingly. I think they are trying to circumvent their own national governments when dealing with Brussels and maybe trying to get the funds directly from there.

    the Budapest mayor is a

    A hero on climate change.

    Car cucks need to be phased out from cities completely and while I appreciate him making a point taking his bicycle to work, he ought to be much more radical. Unfortunately, the reactionary electorate (even among supposed ‘liberals’) would probably not let happen fast enough. The ideal should be Copenhagen or Amsterdam but preferably even more radical.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Owner-driven automobiles should certainly not be the dominant mode of transport in cities. Or even a plurality.

    But your big-brained take is just alienating and dare I say gay.

    The mayor of a country's capital city, even a small and unimportant country like Hungary, should not be riding a bicycle to work. He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position.

    And cars should not be completely phased out from cities. Those prepared to pay the true costs should be have access to direct, personal transportation on demand from point A to point B. That means a car. Those who can't pay for it (which ought to be most commoners) can use mass transit, bicycles (which need to be segregated), or Mk 1 feet.

    Another important function of motorized transportation is delivery services. The more efficient delivery is, the less need for people to transport themselves (by whatever means) to retail distribution stores. Delivery in cities need not be by motorized transport either. Bicycle couriers are one option, and the old idea of pneumatic tube mail can be revived for small parcels. CBDs can also be networked by subterranean narrow-gauge railways, as Chicago's Loop once was.

    What needs to disappear from cities entirely is outdoor parking and traffic congestion. It needs to be mandated that parking is only lawful in enclosed areas (standing for loading and unloading would remain permissible--with well-enforced time limits of course), and traffic congestion needs to be priced out of existence. And simultaneously of course other modes of transport need to be substantially upgraded.
    , @reiner Tor
    Anyone supporting mass immigration is not and cannot be a "hero on climate change." But your takes have grown increasingly insane in the most literal sense of the word, so, whatever.
  275. @Mr. Hack
    I didn't vote for him either in 2016, but wrote in Rob Portman senator from Ohio. I'll have to take a closer look at Trump this time around, the Dems really seem evil. wicked, mean and nasty, more than ever. Thanks for the link. I'll read it when I have a chance (working right now).

    You really should since the democrats have by default become the party of demons. Possibly literal.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    You are slandering demons. Demons are supposed to be vile, cunning, generous with worldly possessions, and sane. Dems are vile, but the rest does not apply to them. They are incredibly venal, obscenely greedy, remarkably stupid, and certifiably insane.
  276. @songbird

    Would you enjoy this or even find it useful?
     
    I actually kind of like the idea of the book/movie recommendations. Reason is that I enjoy older, narrow-interest stuff. And presumably when one shares a certain amount of genes, it is more likely that tastes coincide to a degree.

    I wouldn't want to talk to an imitation of my dead grandfather every day, but I think it would be useful for rare occasions. Help preserve family history, genealogy, traditions, maybe family recipes.

    Mainly, I think of my disembodied voice haunting my descendants to have children and reproduce my genes. Maybe, it is an idea that would only appeal to Japanese. But I think we need to consider radical solutions to help turn around the fertility problem. I think we should try to culturally adopt some of the ideas of Asians, like respect for ones elders and ancestor worship. Of course, Asians don't have good fertility, but I think some degree of it would go some distance to solving the free-rider problem, which impacts fertility.

    But many of our instincts are passed down precisely because of rational reasons./How would this be qualitivately different?
     
    This is true to an extent. For instance, I really hate the attempt to moralize and do away with the emotion of hate. In moderation, hate serves an essential purpose - it is a motivating force. Motivating forces are positive. The moral end of it is what you chose to do with it. And that is a different matter than saying hate is wrong.

    But not everyone has the same instincts - there are also competing political instincts. These I would argue are evolutionary strategies related to resource acquisition. As Jonathon Haidt has said, we have are political instincts first and then rationalize them, and then make the mistake of thinking that they aren't instincts but reasoned arguments.

    Why would there be such a radical change now from the previous pattern?
     
    I'm not sure that the reduction in violence is due to the Flynn Effect, but it is an interesting question. What I would propose that it is due to increased wealth - in the old days, someone might cut your throat to eat, now the government mails them a check, doing the stealing for them. Then there has been some level of genetic pacification, and law enforcement itself is a deterrent.

    Is the Flynn Effect really something positive? I am not sure. It only improves the IQ scores of people at the bottom, not in the smart fraction. It is more an improvement in test-taking ability, isn't it? I've wondered even if it might be a minor corollary to pozz.

    I used the agree button not just to signal my approval of its quality but really the chain of comments that you’ve contributed to this thread. You’ve been an example to follow in how you’ve engaged in civility but also your seriousness in ideas.

    Just one final note of mine then I consider this exchange largely complete.

    What I would propose that it is due to increased wealth – in the old days, someone might cut your throat to eat, now the government mails them a check, doing the stealing for them. Then there has been some level of genetic pacification, and law enforcement itself is a deterrent.

    My humble suggestion would be to say that wealth has followed ideas, not the other way around. It is true all ruling dispensions seek moral justification of their primacy, but that does not make the West unique. The West did not become rich because it exploited or colonised the world. Those things have been attempted by everyone in all of human history. Nor was the West more ruthless or brutal than its peer competitors in moral terms. Quite the contrary.

    The primary difference lay in a self-made liberal intellectual revolution. This intellectual revolution advocated greater equality, tolerance and compassion. These are values the modern right claims are weakness, but they created greater internal solidarity and fairness (however piecemeal and staggered) compared to the feudal systems of the past where peasants were little better off than slaves. By freeing up huge amounts of previously unused human capital, the innovative capacities of the West exploded.

    These moral ideas are therefore inextricably linked to the rise of the West, which is why it is amusing to me why so many on the right suffer from historical amnesia. Their intellectual forefathers largely lost the debate the in West (unlikely in virutally every other region with their emphasis on hierarchy and traditional feudal structures), and the West rose to greatness as a consequence and dragged the rest of the world into the future as a result, on its own terms.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Even granting that you are correct, there's the matter of diminishing returns and even negative returns.

    It's possible that increasing equality, tolerance and compassion created dramatic positive returns, then diminishing returns, and finally negative returns.

    Take agriculture as an allegory. Maximizing plant growth is optimized by increasing inputs of solar radiation, carbon dioxide, and plant nutrients. But only up to a point. Too much and the plant will wither and die.

    So for instance giving all adult males equal rights may have had positive returns. Does that mean extending equal rights to women also had positive returns? Would extending equal rights to children provide positive returns?

    This does not, of course, invalidate your entire premise. The lesson to the alt-right is then do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    , @songbird
    Thanks for your kind words.

    I've wondered whether the Enlightenment might just act to obscure some lower reason for the radical economic changes to the West. I can think of a few possibilities.

    The New World. Just to pick one, the potato dramatically increased the population of peasants, increasing their power. One reason was that you could leave the potatoes in the field for a while, unlike wheat, so they were a bit harder for the military class to confiscate or destroy.

    Another explanation might be guns. Feudalism ended about when guns became more common. There were legal changes that helped end it, no doubt the result of increases in the power of the state.
  277. @Thulean Friend

    the Budapest mayor is a
     
    A hero on climate change.

    https://i.imgur.com/Nv0J2wb.jpg

    Car cucks need to be phased out from cities completely and while I appreciate him making a point taking his bicycle to work, he ought to be much more radical. Unfortunately, the reactionary electorate (even among supposed 'liberals') would probably not let happen fast enough. The ideal should be Copenhagen or Amsterdam but preferably even more radical.

    Owner-driven automobiles should certainly not be the dominant mode of transport in cities. Or even a plurality.

    But your big-brained take is just alienating and dare I say gay.

    The mayor of a country’s capital city, even a small and unimportant country like Hungary, should not be riding a bicycle to work. He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position.

    And cars should not be completely phased out from cities. Those prepared to pay the true costs should be have access to direct, personal transportation on demand from point A to point B. That means a car. Those who can’t pay for it (which ought to be most commoners) can use mass transit, bicycles (which need to be segregated), or Mk 1 feet.

    Another important function of motorized transportation is delivery services. The more efficient delivery is, the less need for people to transport themselves (by whatever means) to retail distribution stores. Delivery in cities need not be by motorized transport either. Bicycle couriers are one option, and the old idea of pneumatic tube mail can be revived for small parcels. CBDs can also be networked by subterranean narrow-gauge railways, as Chicago’s Loop once was.

    What needs to disappear from cities entirely is outdoor parking and traffic congestion. It needs to be mandated that parking is only lawful in enclosed areas (standing for loading and unloading would remain permissible–with well-enforced time limits of course), and traffic congestion needs to be priced out of existence. And simultaneously of course other modes of transport need to be substantially upgraded.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    But your big-brained take is just alienating
     
    Who cares? It is also correct.

    He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position.
     
    He should be reminded on a daily basis that he is not more special than any of the other inhabitants. No special rules. Being a mayor is a privilege but also a service. If he suddenly feels too important and too big for his shoes there are tons who can and will gladly replace him - and ought to. Your argumentation is a bizarre form of slave morality.

    And cars should not be completely phased out from cities.
     
    There is no rational reason why death machines weighing several tons of kilos are allowed, especially given that humans are terrible drivers.

    Another important function of motorized transportation is delivery services.

     

    Drones. Another and much neglected idea is underground transportation. There could be small tubes going up from a large network of pipes transportating various goods from the underground to the surface level, even into buildings.

    What needs to disappear from cities entirely is outdoor parking and traffic congestion
     
    This is smol-brained incrementalism. Cut the problem off at the root.
    , @Dmitry

    should not be riding a bicycle to work. He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position..
     
    There is a problem of politicians trying to counter-signal that they are "one of the ordinary cattle", when they go on bicycle, or public transport. It's a cheap way for them to pretend they are modest and responsible people.

    In principle, this is desirable, however. And when politicians counter-signal like this, at least it shows a society with civilized aspirations - even if somewhat gullible voters. It's step above when officials brazenly view themselves as so above the cattle, that they cannot sit in a trolleybus with them. The next stage, officials' children cannot go to a school with cattle's children - they have to be in England or Switzerland. And they cannot fly in lowcost airlines, and they need to buy a yacht for their mistress, etc.

    -

    As for bicycle. It's one of the best transports, aside from some things like "gondola", "rowing boat" (which are not practical for many cities which lack canals).

    Bicycle does not create traffic, it does not cause air pollution, it does not create noise pollution, and it encourages residents to lose weight .

    It's not surprising, the predominance of bicycles with the most rational and well behaved English demographic. Recall how people travel in Oxford University

    http://smapse.ru/storage/2018/07/converted/885_0_obuchenie-v-kembridzhe-dlya-russkih.jpg

    , @reiner Tor
    Unfortunately, the previous mayor, István Tarlós, was a car person. He only drove his own car, and kept complaining about changes to traffic lights which gave preference to trams over cars on one of the main boulevards of the city. (Trams there, of course, transport something like ten times the people cars do, and I'd say that unless you have a really compelling reason to go there by car, or you are lost, you must be truly an idiot if you drive there.) He then went on to sack the highly competent chief of public transportation (earlier appointed by himself despite his own personal distaste for him - the public transport chief was related to the in-laws of Orbán), after which all development in the public transit system (many of them costing no money, just a bit of effort) ground to a halt. This was probably a major reason for Tarlós losing the election and this despicable liberal being elected.

    So it seems that someone who drives (or is being driven) is not going to be very good at leading the city. We need to find based right-wing SWPLs to run a big city, or else it will be a very badly run city (and it will quickly fall to despicable liberals).
  278. @Thulean Friend
    I used the agree button not just to signal my approval of its quality but really the chain of comments that you've contributed to this thread. You've been an example to follow in how you've engaged in civility but also your seriousness in ideas.

    Just one final note of mine then I consider this exchange largely complete.


    What I would propose that it is due to increased wealth – in the old days, someone might cut your throat to eat, now the government mails them a check, doing the stealing for them. Then there has been some level of genetic pacification, and law enforcement itself is a deterrent.

     

    My humble suggestion would be to say that wealth has followed ideas, not the other way around. It is true all ruling dispensions seek moral justification of their primacy, but that does not make the West unique. The West did not become rich because it exploited or colonised the world. Those things have been attempted by everyone in all of human history. Nor was the West more ruthless or brutal than its peer competitors in moral terms. Quite the contrary.

    The primary difference lay in a self-made liberal intellectual revolution. This intellectual revolution advocated greater equality, tolerance and compassion. These are values the modern right claims are weakness, but they created greater internal solidarity and fairness (however piecemeal and staggered) compared to the feudal systems of the past where peasants were little better off than slaves. By freeing up huge amounts of previously unused human capital, the innovative capacities of the West exploded.

    These moral ideas are therefore inextricably linked to the rise of the West, which is why it is amusing to me why so many on the right suffer from historical amnesia. Their intellectual forefathers largely lost the debate the in West (unlikely in virutally every other region with their emphasis on hierarchy and traditional feudal structures), and the West rose to greatness as a consequence and dragged the rest of the world into the future as a result, on its own terms.

    Even granting that you are correct, there’s the matter of diminishing returns and even negative returns.

    It’s possible that increasing equality, tolerance and compassion created dramatic positive returns, then diminishing returns, and finally negative returns.

    Take agriculture as an allegory. Maximizing plant growth is optimized by increasing inputs of solar radiation, carbon dioxide, and plant nutrients. But only up to a point. Too much and the plant will wither and die.

    So for instance giving all adult males equal rights may have had positive returns. Does that mean extending equal rights to women also had positive returns? Would extending equal rights to children provide positive returns?

    This does not, of course, invalidate your entire premise. The lesson to the alt-right is then do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  279. Regarding Russia’s legit appeal to the CAS on being formally represented at the Olympics:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/12/19/dysfunction-in-the-olympic-movement/

  280. @Daniel Chieh
    You really should since the democrats have by default become the party of demons. Possibly literal.

    You are slandering demons. Demons are supposed to be vile, cunning, generous with worldly possessions, and sane. Dems are vile, but the rest does not apply to them. They are incredibly venal, obscenely greedy, remarkably stupid, and certifiably insane.

  281. @songbird
    I don't really have faith in legal or political solutions. There is an old expression "In the Halls of Justice, the only justice is in the halls."

    The legal and social problems will have to be solved here on Earth, shipping them to Mars won’t magically make them go away.
     
    The secret sauce to Mars colonization is that it is soft eugenics - you merely only allow people above some threshold of intelligence to go. And it is self-association, you only go with people with whom you share a culture. Of course, that wouldn't solve all problems, but it would go a long way to solving many.

    Of course, we are speaking in the language of dreams here. As I said, I am not sure that it is even possible to go anymore. And anyway there is a fatal flaw: you kind of need a nation on Earth to get your nation on Mars.

    The secret sauce to Mars colonization is that it is soft eugenics – you merely only allow people above some threshold of intelligence to go.

    You don’t need Mars for that, merely abolishing feminism will do. Again, a technological solution for what is a social problem.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Even granting for the sake of argument that ending feminism would have a eugenic effect, who's to say that's necessarily easier? You can't just compare feminism and Mars on paper; you have to consider the real world context.
  282. @anonymous coward

    And a century ago, people like you would be saying no differently about travelling to the moon.
     
    They had a point. Regardless of whether or not you're stupid enough to think that American astronauts actually walked on the moon, the point is that we're no closer to 'traveling to the moon' than we were in the 15th century.

    Moon bases or moon shuttles will not happen in this millennium, if ever.

    https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2019/10/29/the-spacex-starship-is-a-very-big-deal/

    You should have a read of that

    https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2019/11/02/starlink-is-a-very-big-deal/

    And this too, in fact anyone with an interest in Space/Mars/the Moon ect should read both links

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2019/11/02/starlink-is-a-very-big-deal/
     
    Your shitty link doesn't even mention the problem of uplink connectivity, which is the real problem in satellite Internet. (Not the rest of the irrelevant verbal diarrhea in your link.)
  283. @AP

    Are we “destroying” Earth?

    Yes.
     

    Using more natural resources than are replaced in the year is not destruction, though it may be unwise if continued until the resources actually run out. Your source is questionable, however.

    It is very weird to refer to ourselves as a virus

    We are the pathogen responsible for the vast majority of environmental degradation and its acceleration.
     

    So if a brain makes decisions (such as to smoke, or to eat bad foods) would you consider it a pathogen upon the body that it harms, with the implied remedy of brain removal or something similar?

    That is the essential silliness of your point.

    Concepts such as "environmental degradation" are human-created.


    I was responding to your terraforming hypothetical. If we make Earth harder and harder to inhabit and simply escape to Mars without fixing the root causes what makes you think we won’t repeat the same mistakes on Mars and then try to find a new planet, and then a new one, and then a one, and so on.

     

    Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one.

    Perhaps virus was the wrong word for such behaviour and parasite would be more fitting.
     
    Would you consider the brain to be a parasite upon the body? Using up so much energy thinking and stuff? Often making decisions that harm the body?

    Perhaps you think that removal of the cortex is the moral thing to do, for the body?


    To be clear, I do not share this selfish fear even if it were to occur. Not even one iota. There’s no moral reason to be concerned about the survival of humanity other than for narrow selfish ones.
     
    So why have you not removed yourself?

    Concepts such as “environmental degradation” are human-created.

    It is also easily measured.

    Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one.

    A parasite’s behaviour, summed up. You’re proving my point. Most of humanity has no consideration for its surrounding and views everything else as expendable in its sole quest for survival. I will concede that this is a highly efficient pattern in the short run but it also makes me unsympathetic to humanity’s angst in existential question. It is like having mercy over a pathological serial killer.

    So why have you not removed yourself?

    Silly retort. 80% or more of humanity deserves to be liquidated. Only a small minority of humans are considerate enough of their surroundings – social, environmental and ethical – to be worth saving. If whittled down to this last 20%, I would suddenly take matters of human survival very seriously, because these people are actually worth saving. Otherwise you’d save a minority of decent people at the cost of letting a much greater share of douchebags live. Clearly inefficient.

    However given that this would never happen and we are stuck with a large majority of parasitical and immoral humans, questions of human survival does not interest me much. I take no active interest in killing – which raises serious ethical questions – I am simply unmoved by the suffering of people who do not care about the harm they inflict on others (not just other humans but plants, animals and the planet itself). Why should I?

    • Replies: @AP

    "Concepts such as “environmental degradation” are human-created."

    It is also easily measured.
     
    Measurements are human ideas and what is measured is a human concept.

    "Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one."

    A parasite’s behaviour, summed up
     
    You refused to answer my question - do you consider the brain (or perhaps cortex) to be a parasite upon the human body?

    As a pagan you ought to believe that everything is interconnected, part of a gestalt, yet your comments suggest that you view humans as some sort of alien intruder upon the Earth, rather than a part of the Earth (the part of the Earth that is most sentient, and the only part of the Earth that is conscious). Just as brains cause bodies to drink or do other unhealthy things in order to please themselves or accomplish some brain-related goal, humans aren't always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?

    Most of humanity has no consideration for its surrounding and views everything else as expendable in its sole quest for survival.
     
    Humanity is the only thing on this Earth capable of consideration for its surroundings.

    It is like having mercy over a pathological serial killer.
     
    Projection. You are in favor of genocide for 80% of the world's population.

    I take no active interest in killing – which raises serious ethical questions – I am simply unmoved by the suffering of people who do not care about the harm they inflict on others (not just other humans but plants, animals and the planet itself)
     
    So you are a coward who makes excuses for not following through on his beliefs. That is a very good thing, of course, given your beliefs.

    Apparently you think it good for humanity to die for the sake not only of animals and trees but also of rocks and water.
  284. @Thorfinnsson
    Owner-driven automobiles should certainly not be the dominant mode of transport in cities. Or even a plurality.

    But your big-brained take is just alienating and dare I say gay.

    The mayor of a country's capital city, even a small and unimportant country like Hungary, should not be riding a bicycle to work. He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position.

    And cars should not be completely phased out from cities. Those prepared to pay the true costs should be have access to direct, personal transportation on demand from point A to point B. That means a car. Those who can't pay for it (which ought to be most commoners) can use mass transit, bicycles (which need to be segregated), or Mk 1 feet.

    Another important function of motorized transportation is delivery services. The more efficient delivery is, the less need for people to transport themselves (by whatever means) to retail distribution stores. Delivery in cities need not be by motorized transport either. Bicycle couriers are one option, and the old idea of pneumatic tube mail can be revived for small parcels. CBDs can also be networked by subterranean narrow-gauge railways, as Chicago's Loop once was.

    What needs to disappear from cities entirely is outdoor parking and traffic congestion. It needs to be mandated that parking is only lawful in enclosed areas (standing for loading and unloading would remain permissible--with well-enforced time limits of course), and traffic congestion needs to be priced out of existence. And simultaneously of course other modes of transport need to be substantially upgraded.

    But your big-brained take is just alienating

    Who cares? It is also correct.

    He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position.

    He should be reminded on a daily basis that he is not more special than any of the other inhabitants. No special rules. Being a mayor is a privilege but also a service. If he suddenly feels too important and too big for his shoes there are tons who can and will gladly replace him – and ought to. Your argumentation is a bizarre form of slave morality.

    And cars should not be completely phased out from cities.

    There is no rational reason why death machines weighing several tons of kilos are allowed, especially given that humans are terrible drivers.

    Another important function of motorized transportation is delivery services.

    Drones. Another and much neglected idea is underground transportation. There could be small tubes going up from a large network of pipes transportating various goods from the underground to the surface level, even into buildings.

    What needs to disappear from cities entirely is outdoor parking and traffic congestion

    This is smol-brained incrementalism. Cut the problem off at the root.

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson

    Who cares? It is also correct.
     

    How does it feel to be wrong?

    He should be reminded on a daily basis that he is not more special than any of the other inhabitants. No special rules. Being a mayor is a privilege but also a service. If he suddenly feels too important and too big for his shoes there are tons who can and will gladly replace him – and ought to. Your argumentation is a bizarre form of slave morality.
     

    I disagree.

    A mayor is in fact more special than ordinary inhabitants, as is any other executive indirectly in charge of two million people and directly in charge of however many employees the municipal administration of Budapest has.

    This entitles him to superior social status and a higher standard of living that includes, but is not limited to, superior transportation services.

    You are correct that serving as a mayor is indeed a service, and thus nonperforming mayors should be removed.

    And if you're really bent on destroying cars, I can think of alternatives. Helicopters and private rail cars come to mind. But I'm not sure Budapest is important enough to merit that level of extravagance. A limousine is fine.

    There is no rational reason why death machines weighing several tons of kilos are allowed, especially given that humans are terrible drivers.
     

    The rational reason is that they provide superior speed, comfort, and privacy compared to alternative forms of transportation.

    One of the costs you've highlighted is that people are routinely maimed and killed by cars. True enough, but most vehicular fatalities occur on two-lane highways and not in cities. Decongesting cities and properly segregating incompatible modes of transportation will further reduce urban carnage.

    Drones. Another and much neglected idea is underground transportation. There could be small tubes going up from a large network of pipes transportating various goods from the underground to the surface level, even into buildings.
     

    Agreed, and this has been done before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube#In_postal_service

    It appears that Prague's system operated as late as 2002.


    This is smol-brained incrementalism. Cut the problem off at the root.
     
    The root is the systematic under-pricing of motorized surface transportation, not the existence of cars. This is why I was pleased when the City of Chicago auctioned off the city's parking to a private operator, even if the deal was corrupt and harmful to the city's future finances. A private operator can appropriately price parking in a manner that the municipal administration cannot, because voters irrationally demand "free" parking everywhere.
  285. @Thulean Friend

    But your big-brained take is just alienating
     
    Who cares? It is also correct.

    He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position.
     
    He should be reminded on a daily basis that he is not more special than any of the other inhabitants. No special rules. Being a mayor is a privilege but also a service. If he suddenly feels too important and too big for his shoes there are tons who can and will gladly replace him - and ought to. Your argumentation is a bizarre form of slave morality.

    And cars should not be completely phased out from cities.
     
    There is no rational reason why death machines weighing several tons of kilos are allowed, especially given that humans are terrible drivers.

    Another important function of motorized transportation is delivery services.

     

    Drones. Another and much neglected idea is underground transportation. There could be small tubes going up from a large network of pipes transportating various goods from the underground to the surface level, even into buildings.

    What needs to disappear from cities entirely is outdoor parking and traffic congestion
     
    This is smol-brained incrementalism. Cut the problem off at the root.

    Who cares? It is also correct.

    How does it feel to be wrong?

    He should be reminded on a daily basis that he is not more special than any of the other inhabitants. No special rules. Being a mayor is a privilege but also a service. If he suddenly feels too important and too big for his shoes there are tons who can and will gladly replace him – and ought to. Your argumentation is a bizarre form of slave morality.

    I disagree.

    A mayor is in fact more special than ordinary inhabitants, as is any other executive indirectly in charge of two million people and directly in charge of however many employees the municipal administration of Budapest has.

    This entitles him to superior social status and a higher standard of living that includes, but is not limited to, superior transportation services.

    You are correct that serving as a mayor is indeed a service, and thus nonperforming mayors should be removed.

    And if you’re really bent on destroying cars, I can think of alternatives. Helicopters and private rail cars come to mind. But I’m not sure Budapest is important enough to merit that level of extravagance. A limousine is fine.

    There is no rational reason why death machines weighing several tons of kilos are allowed, especially given that humans are terrible drivers.

    The rational reason is that they provide superior speed, comfort, and privacy compared to alternative forms of transportation.

    One of the costs you’ve highlighted is that people are routinely maimed and killed by cars. True enough, but most vehicular fatalities occur on two-lane highways and not in cities. Decongesting cities and properly segregating incompatible modes of transportation will further reduce urban carnage.

    Drones. Another and much neglected idea is underground transportation. There could be small tubes going up from a large network of pipes transportating various goods from the underground to the surface level, even into buildings.

    Agreed, and this has been done before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube#In_postal_service

    It appears that Prague’s system operated as late as 2002.

    This is smol-brained incrementalism. Cut the problem off at the root.

    The root is the systematic under-pricing of motorized surface transportation, not the existence of cars. This is why I was pleased when the City of Chicago auctioned off the city’s parking to a private operator, even if the deal was corrupt and harmful to the city’s future finances. A private operator can appropriately price parking in a manner that the municipal administration cannot, because voters irrationally demand “free” parking everywhere.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    A mayor is in fact more special than ordinary inhabitants
     
    A mayor is more like a figurehead for a well-oiled bureaucracy who is sent to do the bidding of his or her voters. That is a service role and the moment he or she forgets that and starts thinking more about titles is the time they should get booted. One way to remind them of this is to make sure they get no special privileges.

    This entitles him to superior social status
     
    Slave morality.
    , @LatW

    A limousine is fine
     
    Lol, come on. :)

    A black upscale Audi fits an EE mayor well.
  286. @anonymous coward

    The secret sauce to Mars colonization is that it is soft eugenics – you merely only allow people above some threshold of intelligence to go.
     
    You don't need Mars for that, merely abolishing feminism will do. Again, a technological solution for what is a social problem.

    Even granting for the sake of argument that ending feminism would have a eugenic effect, who’s to say that’s necessarily easier? You can’t just compare feminism and Mars on paper; you have to consider the real world context.

  287. @AP

    I thought you follow traditional religion. But now you propose this modern, Nietzschean,”Man creates meaning”.
     
    No, I do not. I was contrasting man with nature.

    You said Mars has no meaning, than what humans decide – and presumably the same will be with earth. You’re presenting this post-modern view, or let’s say “Protagorean” (as Plato will reports on Protagoras) view. Also you said that the only consciousness is human – so presumably do not believe in consciousness of god, angels, non-human animals, etc.

    I’m not criticizing. To an extent, this modern view matches current evidence, although personally I think it will be a little vain and immodest.

    • Replies: @AP

    You said Mars has no meaning, than what humans decide – and presumably the same will be with earth.
     
    Yes.

    You’re presenting this post-modern view, or let’s say “Protagorean” (as Plato will reports on Protagoras) view. Also you said that the only consciousness is human
     
    Of the Earth and of the natural world, yes.

    – so presumably do not believe in consciousness of god, angels, non-human animals, etc.
     
    I did not discuss God. Animals are not self-conscious and cannot appreciate, judge or consider the natural world as we, made in God's image, do.

    Without people, the Earth is nonreflective, unconscious, among higher animals there is sentience but it is purely emotional (rage, fear, love), physical (suffering, pleasure) but unthinking in a significant sense. On Mars there is not even that.
  288. @reiner Tor

    Motifs are never possible to ascertain.
     
    Technically speaking, this might be true, but often we can still prove intentions with a very high probability. We know that Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews as late as October 1941, because his policy was still facilitating their emigration from Europe. Certainly, if you want to kill someone, you are not going to compel him to move somewhere where you cannot kill him.

    Regarding the Irish, the British government did provide some relief to the starving people, but the response was slow and inadequate. We also have access to private papers like letters and journals, and there’s simply no evidence of any intent. It’s highly unlikely that there would be no evidence of it if they really had intent. It’s not so easy to simulate.

    Just as I’m sure that you really are a Slovak from Western Slovakia: theoretically, you could be a South Korean teenage girl whose hobby is to impersonate Slovak men online, but it’s just unlikely. You might distort some information, but not something like this.

    … often we can still prove intentions with a very high probability.

    And often we can’t. And ‘prove‘ is way too strong term what you get when trying to assign motives in most historical circumstances.

    You blase dismissal of British responsibility for Irish famine seems to be based on not finding in ‘letters and journals’ someone saying ‘let’s starve the damn Fenians’. They forgot to put it in writing. Some Brits welcomed the famine, some only welcomed the results of the famine, some were compassionate, some were both. My point is that normal elites are accountable for what happens – their motives or bad luck are secondary.

    Hitler probably himself couldn’t coherently describe his motives, in the morning he looked for ships to facilitate emigration, in the afternoon full of rage yelled ‘killed them all‘. People are like that, that’s why motives are hard to ascertain. I am not only technically right, chasing motives is entertaining but a pointless exercise. It is about what actually happens, why is not for us to divine.

  289. @Thorfinnsson
    Owner-driven automobiles should certainly not be the dominant mode of transport in cities. Or even a plurality.

    But your big-brained take is just alienating and dare I say gay.

    The mayor of a country's capital city, even a small and unimportant country like Hungary, should not be riding a bicycle to work. He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position.

    And cars should not be completely phased out from cities. Those prepared to pay the true costs should be have access to direct, personal transportation on demand from point A to point B. That means a car. Those who can't pay for it (which ought to be most commoners) can use mass transit, bicycles (which need to be segregated), or Mk 1 feet.

    Another important function of motorized transportation is delivery services. The more efficient delivery is, the less need for people to transport themselves (by whatever means) to retail distribution stores. Delivery in cities need not be by motorized transport either. Bicycle couriers are one option, and the old idea of pneumatic tube mail can be revived for small parcels. CBDs can also be networked by subterranean narrow-gauge railways, as Chicago's Loop once was.

    What needs to disappear from cities entirely is outdoor parking and traffic congestion. It needs to be mandated that parking is only lawful in enclosed areas (standing for loading and unloading would remain permissible--with well-enforced time limits of course), and traffic congestion needs to be priced out of existence. And simultaneously of course other modes of transport need to be substantially upgraded.

    should not be riding a bicycle to work. He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position..

    There is a problem of politicians trying to counter-signal that they are “one of the ordinary cattle”, when they go on bicycle, or public transport. It’s a cheap way for them to pretend they are modest and responsible people.

    In principle, this is desirable, however. And when politicians counter-signal like this, at least it shows a society with civilized aspirations – even if somewhat gullible voters. It’s step above when officials brazenly view themselves as so above the cattle, that they cannot sit in a trolleybus with them. The next stage, officials’ children cannot go to a school with cattle’s children – they have to be in England or Switzerland. And they cannot fly in lowcost airlines, and they need to buy a yacht for their mistress, etc.

    As for bicycle. It’s one of the best transports, aside from some things like “gondola”, “rowing boat” (which are not practical for many cities which lack canals).

    Bicycle does not create traffic, it does not cause air pollution, it does not create noise pollution, and it encourages residents to lose weight .

    It’s not surprising, the predominance of bicycles with the most rational and well behaved English demographic. Recall how people travel in Oxford University

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    One of life's sweet memories was coming to Oxford for the first time as a young man, turning onto just such an alley, and seeing a lovely young Oxford maiden riding her bicycle, her gown and auburn hair flowing in the wind.

    It's almost enough to make me approve of admitting women to Oxford.

    , @Thorfinnsson


    There is a problem of politicians trying to counter-signal that they are “one of the ordinary cattle”, when they go on bicycle, or public transport. It’s a cheap way for them to pretend they are modest and responsible people.

    In principle, this is desirable, however. And when politicians counter-signal like this, at least it shows a society with civilized aspirations – even if somewhat gullible voters. It’s step above when officials brazenly view themselves as so above the cattle, that they cannot sit in a trolleybus with them. The next stage, officials’ children cannot go to a school with cattle’s children – they have to be in England or Switzerland. And they cannot fly in lowcost airlines, and they need to buy a yacht for their mistress, etc.
     
    I don't think it shows a civilized aspiration. It shows that the envy of commoners has become an important political factor.

    That's not to say that it's desirable to have extreme hierarchy or, worse, corrupt hierarchy in which elites transfer their children and assets abroad.

    As with many other things, a happy medium is best.


    As for bicycle. It’s one of the best transports, aside from some things like “gondola”, “rowing boat” (which are not practical for many cities which lack canals).

    Bicycle does not create traffic, it does not cause air pollution, it does not create noise pollution, and it encourages residents to lose weight .

    It’s not surprising, the predominance of bicycles with the most rational and well behaved English demographic. Recall how people travel in Oxford University
     
    Bicycle transport has many advantages, and when the weather is decent I ride my bicycle as well.

    It does not encourage residents to lose weight, however--unless you mean that outdoor physical activity makes people think about it. Increased energy expenditure (and bicycle commuting does not really involve much increase to begin with--even running a marathon costs only 2,000 calories) simply increases hunger.

    To lose weight, it's necessary to reduce energy intake beneath energy expenditure. Since even a sedentary human body consumes a large amount of energy to maintain itself, increasing energetic expenditure is irrelevant. The goals should instead be to optimize the body's fat burning processes, to limit hunger, and to activate physiological insulin resistance (as opposed to chronic). The best strategy for this is a LCHF diet in which the ratio of saturated fat to other fats consumed exceeds 1.

    Of course, cycling has other physiological and mental benefits unrelated to weight loss.
  290. @Thulean Friend

    Concepts such as “environmental degradation” are human-created.
     
    It is also easily measured.

    Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one.

     

    A parasite's behaviour, summed up. You're proving my point. Most of humanity has no consideration for its surrounding and views everything else as expendable in its sole quest for survival. I will concede that this is a highly efficient pattern in the short run but it also makes me unsympathetic to humanity's angst in existential question. It is like having mercy over a pathological serial killer.

    So why have you not removed yourself?
     
    Silly retort. 80% or more of humanity deserves to be liquidated. Only a small minority of humans are considerate enough of their surroundings - social, environmental and ethical - to be worth saving. If whittled down to this last 20%, I would suddenly take matters of human survival very seriously, because these people are actually worth saving. Otherwise you'd save a minority of decent people at the cost of letting a much greater share of douchebags live. Clearly inefficient.

    However given that this would never happen and we are stuck with a large majority of parasitical and immoral humans, questions of human survival does not interest me much. I take no active interest in killing - which raises serious ethical questions - I am simply unmoved by the suffering of people who do not care about the harm they inflict on others (not just other humans but plants, animals and the planet itself). Why should I?

    “Concepts such as “environmental degradation” are human-created.”

    It is also easily measured.

    Measurements are human ideas and what is measured is a human concept.

    “Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one.”

    A parasite’s behaviour, summed up

    You refused to answer my question – do you consider the brain (or perhaps cortex) to be a parasite upon the human body?

    As a pagan you ought to believe that everything is interconnected, part of a gestalt, yet your comments suggest that you view humans as some sort of alien intruder upon the Earth, rather than a part of the Earth (the part of the Earth that is most sentient, and the only part of the Earth that is conscious). Just as brains cause bodies to drink or do other unhealthy things in order to please themselves or accomplish some brain-related goal, humans aren’t always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?

    Most of humanity has no consideration for its surrounding and views everything else as expendable in its sole quest for survival.

    Humanity is the only thing on this Earth capable of consideration for its surroundings.

    It is like having mercy over a pathological serial killer.

    Projection. You are in favor of genocide for 80% of the world’s population.

    I take no active interest in killing – which raises serious ethical questions – I am simply unmoved by the suffering of people who do not care about the harm they inflict on others (not just other humans but plants, animals and the planet itself)

    So you are a coward who makes excuses for not following through on his beliefs. That is a very good thing, of course, given your beliefs.

    Apparently you think it good for humanity to die for the sake not only of animals and trees but also of rocks and water.

    • Replies: @utu
    There is only one solution for Thulean Friend:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLTNYXsQNb0
    , @Thulean Friend

    Measurements are human ideas
     
    Gravity on Earth doesn't stop being true if we are suddenly made unaware of it.

    humans aren’t always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?
     
    You're exposing your callous and unethical mentality. Such a incomplete moral understanding, as a self-identifying Christian, surely that should bother you.

    who makes excuses for not following through on his beliefs
     
    I don't believe in violence. There is nothing inconsistent with what I said. Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn't mean it would be moral to do so. Solving problems by violence is not ethical. Doesn't stop me from making the obvious observation that if humanity was wiped out by AI, I wouldn't mourn much because most of those people have very low and in many cases non-existent ethical and moral convictions.

    Humanity is the only thing on this Earth capable of consideration for its surroundings.
     
    Humanity is also by far the smartest species. When viewed this way, the only thing that is surprising is how primitive most of our moral understanding still is.
  291. @Dmitry
    You said Mars has no meaning, than what humans decide - and presumably the same will be with earth. You're presenting this post-modern view, or let's say "Protagorean" (as Plato will reports on Protagoras) view. Also you said that the only consciousness is human - so presumably do not believe in consciousness of god, angels, non-human animals, etc.

    I'm not criticizing. To an extent, this modern view matches current evidence, although personally I think it will be a little vain and immodest.

    You said Mars has no meaning, than what humans decide – and presumably the same will be with earth.

    Yes.

    You’re presenting this post-modern view, or let’s say “Protagorean” (as Plato will reports on Protagoras) view. Also you said that the only consciousness is human

    Of the Earth and of the natural world, yes.

    – so presumably do not believe in consciousness of god, angels, non-human animals, etc.

    I did not discuss God. Animals are not self-conscious and cannot appreciate, judge or consider the natural world as we, made in God’s image, do.

    Without people, the Earth is nonreflective, unconscious, among higher animals there is sentience but it is purely emotional (rage, fear, love), physical (suffering, pleasure) but unthinking in a significant sense. On Mars there is not even that.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    we, made in God’s image, do.
     
    If man is in God's image - God would have a mouth, presumably because he needs to eat things. Similarly God must have legs, so he can walk around. I wonder if God has to cut his nails?

    It's also quite strange that God would have to resemble one of the great apes in morphology or mind. Great ape is far from the most beautiful animal category even from our own (belonging to great ape's) perception.

    Of course, it's also immodesty and hubris, to imagine God or gods, has anything in common with us (humans), beyond the possibly that perhaps all minds have to recognize the same universals - such as logic or the laws of nature (if a god or gods would not be somehow "outside" such laws of nature).


    Animals are not self-conscious and cannot appreciate, judge or consider the natural world as we,

     

    The important thing is consciousness. Non-human animals are stupider than humans, and less complex in behaviour - above all, not able to construct much culture (although different orca pods, for example, have developed different cultures and languages to a limited extent, and even things like music had a basis in our non-human ancestors).

    But animals have consciousness, and therefore perceive and appreciate world, sometimes more accurately than we.

    Consciousness would be a far more essential breakthrough in the universe, than the particular gradation of complexity of thoughts which might go through our mind (in addition humans have more complex thought than an Orca, but probably less detailed perceptions).

    As for the type of animals' consciousness, it's not difficult to assume that an animal like a chimpanzee will have almost the same first personal experience as our own, considering similarity of the brain - with even the folding the tissue in the brain in the same patterns.

    https://i.imgur.com/dVdFwLu.jpg

  292. @Jatt Desi
    You're obviously a Mirpuri.

    Only they play up Af-Pak identity.

    Most Pakjabis are gay cucks who will go Hindu after Lahore falls.
    Sindhis too, about the only people who actually believe in Islam are identity-less cretins like

    Mirpuris who are neither Kashmir nor Panjabi or Potohari. LOL

    Pakistan wasn't Afghanistan, both were Endia.
    Today Indian Rapeublic is a gay blot on the land same with those other 2. (3 if u incl Bangla cucks)

    Anyway, no more hate on S Indians after this:

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/653857894483361792/657118449385865216/holocaust_is_a_lie_srilanka.webm

    First all Sindh was always different from Hind even before Arabs

    Second there is no map in existence that shows India going over Pakistan

    Third Sindhis/Pashtuns/Balochis/Kalash/Paharis are already proven they are genetically different from Indians as harappa and gedmatch reveals.

    4th Mirpuris are a tough race in britain, they pimp your jatt women out with the white women in britain and even your white master cant stop them

    5th sindh/pashtun/balochi/paharis were buddhist before Islam not hindu

    Some minority hindus lived in Lahore no where else

    Sindhis were buddhist before bin qasim arrived

    • Replies: @Jatt Desi
    Sindh and Hind are the same word..
  293. @Daniel Chieh
    Isn't this a pakistani dish though? It looks decent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihari

    He is jealous Pakistanis are a thousand times better than Indians in looks and hygiene.

  294. @AP

    "Concepts such as “environmental degradation” are human-created."

    It is also easily measured.
     
    Measurements are human ideas and what is measured is a human concept.

    "Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one."

    A parasite’s behaviour, summed up
     
    You refused to answer my question - do you consider the brain (or perhaps cortex) to be a parasite upon the human body?

    As a pagan you ought to believe that everything is interconnected, part of a gestalt, yet your comments suggest that you view humans as some sort of alien intruder upon the Earth, rather than a part of the Earth (the part of the Earth that is most sentient, and the only part of the Earth that is conscious). Just as brains cause bodies to drink or do other unhealthy things in order to please themselves or accomplish some brain-related goal, humans aren't always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?

    Most of humanity has no consideration for its surrounding and views everything else as expendable in its sole quest for survival.
     
    Humanity is the only thing on this Earth capable of consideration for its surroundings.

    It is like having mercy over a pathological serial killer.
     
    Projection. You are in favor of genocide for 80% of the world's population.

    I take no active interest in killing – which raises serious ethical questions – I am simply unmoved by the suffering of people who do not care about the harm they inflict on others (not just other humans but plants, animals and the planet itself)
     
    So you are a coward who makes excuses for not following through on his beliefs. That is a very good thing, of course, given your beliefs.

    Apparently you think it good for humanity to die for the sake not only of animals and trees but also of rocks and water.

    There is only one solution for Thulean Friend:

    • Agree: Dreadilk
    • LOL: Mr. Hack
  295. @Daniel Chieh
    Isn't this a pakistani dish though? It looks decent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihari

    Pakistan was never india to begin with

    [Img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Ancient_Khorasan_highlighted.jpg/300px-Ancient_Khorasan_highlighted.jpg[/img]

  296. @Jatt Desi
    https://youtu.be/gSiR_gCEvfA

    LOL BRUAAAH WE GONNA RECK DA MUGHAL YEA!!

    Punjabi Jatts are filthy hindus with turbans

    Anybody can tell a Azad Kashmiri from a Punjabi from miles away in terms of looks and attitude in britain

    Azad Kashmiris are buddhist before Islam

    This is why AJK and Pathans live in Bradford without issues while Punjabi jatts live in Southall and are also cowardly in nature.

    Sikhs and Hindus are slaves to white people, always have been and always will be

    Mirpuris and Pathans are warriors and fight them

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Anybody can tell a Azad Kashmiri from a Punjabi from miles away in terms of looks and attitude in britain

     

    Is that really so? Some photographic evidence definitely will help.
  297. @Thulean Friend
    I used the agree button not just to signal my approval of its quality but really the chain of comments that you've contributed to this thread. You've been an example to follow in how you've engaged in civility but also your seriousness in ideas.

    Just one final note of mine then I consider this exchange largely complete.


    What I would propose that it is due to increased wealth – in the old days, someone might cut your throat to eat, now the government mails them a check, doing the stealing for them. Then there has been some level of genetic pacification, and law enforcement itself is a deterrent.

     

    My humble suggestion would be to say that wealth has followed ideas, not the other way around. It is true all ruling dispensions seek moral justification of their primacy, but that does not make the West unique. The West did not become rich because it exploited or colonised the world. Those things have been attempted by everyone in all of human history. Nor was the West more ruthless or brutal than its peer competitors in moral terms. Quite the contrary.

    The primary difference lay in a self-made liberal intellectual revolution. This intellectual revolution advocated greater equality, tolerance and compassion. These are values the modern right claims are weakness, but they created greater internal solidarity and fairness (however piecemeal and staggered) compared to the feudal systems of the past where peasants were little better off than slaves. By freeing up huge amounts of previously unused human capital, the innovative capacities of the West exploded.

    These moral ideas are therefore inextricably linked to the rise of the West, which is why it is amusing to me why so many on the right suffer from historical amnesia. Their intellectual forefathers largely lost the debate the in West (unlikely in virutally every other region with their emphasis on hierarchy and traditional feudal structures), and the West rose to greatness as a consequence and dragged the rest of the world into the future as a result, on its own terms.

    Thanks for your kind words.

    I’ve wondered whether the Enlightenment might just act to obscure some lower reason for the radical economic changes to the West. I can think of a few possibilities.

    The New World. Just to pick one, the potato dramatically increased the population of peasants, increasing their power. One reason was that you could leave the potatoes in the field for a while, unlike wheat, so they were a bit harder for the military class to confiscate or destroy.

    Another explanation might be guns. Feudalism ended about when guns became more common. There were legal changes that helped end it, no doubt the result of increases in the power of the state.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...potato dramatically increased the population of peasants, increasing their power...
     
    In addition, infrastructure of roads and minimum safety made feudal priviledges redundant. Feudals had a role as local protectors, all else followed from that. Once safety was centralised by strong states, the point of exchange food for security was gone. In effect feudals' original role was to protect crops. You are right, potatoes need a lot less protection.

    It would be tempting to assign guns a role, but that was probably only the case in a few wilder, remote places like America, Highlands, steppes... Guns make fights less equal, not more, so they increase the ability to control settled peasants.

    Early feudal 'protectors' were a lot more vulnerable. That's why most of them didn't survive - almost all of us are mainly descendants of peasants. Early feudals were basically sitting ducks, living short, violent lives of plunder and racketeering ('protection'). They built castles for a reason - they were scared: riding a horse through the countryside at that time was like putting a sign on one's back 'kill me, and my horse' (very easy by the way). They were dead-enders.

    , @Daniel.I
    What's wrong with you people ?

    First off, if a first-class cuck like Thulean Friend would start praising me, I'd take a good hard look in the mirror.

    Second of all, the source of welfare is intelligence.
    Intelligence in humans gets selected for mainly in cold periods.

    And if you look at climate records, you find just that - the Medieval Ice Age.

    No need to posit pozzed crap like "muh Enlightenment"
  298. J. K. Rowling is on twitter being a transphobe.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/dec/19/jk-rowling-trans-row-court-ruling-twitter-maya-forstater

    You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts!

    Note to self: never use twitter.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    J. K. Rowling is on twitter being a transphobe.
     
    Whithering under the intense backlash, she has since done a shameful and cowardly mea culpa over her eminently moderate statement that there are only two sexes.

    It is a strange experience to live through times when making biologically correct statements become heretical. When even a card-carrying SJW like JK Rowling is burned at the stake is when you know your culture has become genuinely demented.

  299. Don’t expect anything to improve with Jay Clayton as SEC Chair, and his wife,Gretchen Butler Clayton and her father, who was CEO of CSC and mysterious WMB Holdings which share the same address in addition to many Goldman Sachs divisions. Gretchen was employed by Goldman Sachs as an attorney from 1999-2017. Many companies affiliated with the Panama Papers share the same address as well.

    Secrecy has expanded under Clayton.

    https://wallstreetonparade.com/2018/01/wall-streets-top-cop-cant-shake-money-ties-to-mysterious-firm/

    Do you think that it is more likely that of the approximately 300,000 names in the Panama Papers that only 36 were Americans, or that many Americans stole foreign identities, or some group did on their behalf, to hide the investments from authorities, and planned on living a double life with more than one identity?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson


    Do you think that it is more likely that of the approximately 300,000 names in the Panama Papers that only 36 were Americans, or that many Americans stole foreign identities, or some group did on their behalf, to hide the investments from authorities, and planned on living a double life with more than one identity?
     
    Americans are less likely to hide investments offshore for several major reasons:

    1 - The USA taxes worldwide income, making such vehicles pointless unless they're criminal
    2 - FATCA means that criminal investment vehicles abroad (or even legal foreign bank accounts) for US citizens are increasingly rare
    3 - Relative to most other advanced economies top tax brackets in the USA are modest, especially for capital gains
  300. New Year Prediction

    They thought that they were living the American Dream, and then they woke up in 2020 after they realized that it’s all been a pack of lies.

    Hind sight is 2020! Woke!

  301. @AP

    You said Mars has no meaning, than what humans decide – and presumably the same will be with earth.
     
    Yes.

    You’re presenting this post-modern view, or let’s say “Protagorean” (as Plato will reports on Protagoras) view. Also you said that the only consciousness is human
     
    Of the Earth and of the natural world, yes.

    – so presumably do not believe in consciousness of god, angels, non-human animals, etc.
     
    I did not discuss God. Animals are not self-conscious and cannot appreciate, judge or consider the natural world as we, made in God's image, do.

    Without people, the Earth is nonreflective, unconscious, among higher animals there is sentience but it is purely emotional (rage, fear, love), physical (suffering, pleasure) but unthinking in a significant sense. On Mars there is not even that.

    we, made in God’s image, do.

    If man is in God’s image – God would have a mouth, presumably because he needs to eat things. Similarly God must have legs, so he can walk around. I wonder if God has to cut his nails?

    It’s also quite strange that God would have to resemble one of the great apes in morphology or mind. Great ape is far from the most beautiful animal category even from our own (belonging to great ape’s) perception.

    Of course, it’s also immodesty and hubris, to imagine God or gods, has anything in common with us (humans), beyond the possibly that perhaps all minds have to recognize the same universals – such as logic or the laws of nature (if a god or gods would not be somehow “outside” such laws of nature).

    Animals are not self-conscious and cannot appreciate, judge or consider the natural world as we,

    The important thing is consciousness. Non-human animals are stupider than humans, and less complex in behaviour – above all, not able to construct much culture (although different orca pods, for example, have developed different cultures and languages to a limited extent, and even things like music had a basis in our non-human ancestors).

    But animals have consciousness, and therefore perceive and appreciate world, sometimes more accurately than we.

    Consciousness would be a far more essential breakthrough in the universe, than the particular gradation of complexity of thoughts which might go through our mind (in addition humans have more complex thought than an Orca, but probably less detailed perceptions).

    As for the type of animals’ consciousness, it’s not difficult to assume that an animal like a chimpanzee will have almost the same first personal experience as our own, considering similarity of the brain – with even the folding the tissue in the brain in the same patterns.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    If man is in God’s image – God would have a mouth, presumably because he needs to eat things. Similarly God must have legs, so he can walk around. I wonder if God has to cut his nails?
     
    "In God's image" means that man is a supernatural being with free will.

    Consciousness would be a far more essential breakthrough in the universe, than the particular gradation of complexity of thoughts which might go through our mind
     
    Consciousness is irrelevant; my phone is 'conscious', for certain values of 'consciousness'.

    What's important is free will, free will being the singularity of information complexity. (Or information entropy, if you will, which is the same thing.)
    , @AP

    If man is in God’s image – God would have a mouth, presumably because he needs to eat things. Similarly God must have legs, so he can walk around. I wonder if God has to cut his nails?
     
    You are being deliberately daft.

    It’s also quite strange that God would have to resemble one of the great apes in morphology or mind. Great ape is far from the most beautiful animal category even from our own (belonging to great ape’s) perception.

     

    But no animal is really as beautiful and inspiring as the good human form. It would be silly if someone like Michelangelo devoted his sculptures to cats.

    We view other apes as ugly because they are closer to us and thus imperfect or grotesque versions of us. Presumably if we had arisen from tigers we would view leopards as similarly ugly and apes as majestic.

    Of course, it’s also immodesty and hubris, to imagine God or gods, has anything in common with us (humans)
     
    He came to Earth as one of us; that's simply reality, and is no more a prideful statement that the claim that we are more intelligent etc. than anything else known in the natural universe.

    The important thing is consciousness. Non-human animals are stupider than humans, and less complex in behaviour – above all, not able to construct much culture (although different orca pods, for example, have developed different cultures and languages to a limited extent, and even things like music had a basis in our non-human ancestors).

    But animals have consciousness, and therefore perceive and appreciate world, sometimes more accurately than we.
     
    The important thing is self-consciousness. Animals can perceive (often better than we can) but cannot appreciate, contemplate, have opinions of, reflect upon, the world. They only operate on instinct and physical sensations (pain, pleasure) in the case of lower animals such as insects, plus emotions in the case of higher animals (in accordance with bran structure, emotions limited to fear and rage in reptiles, love appears in mammals and birds). They can be conditioned through trial and error and sometimes observation but cannot reflect on what they have learned. There is no moral consideration.

    Orca or chimpanzee "culture" is limited to patterns of learned tool use or communication by groups that is passed on through observation. It is silly to compare this to human culture.

    As for the type of animals’ consciousness, it’s not difficult to assume that an animal like a chimpanzee will have almost the same first personal experience as our own
     
    The "spark" that enables true consciousness may depend on slight differences but the effects enormous. The parts of the brain responsible for emotions are mostly identical for all mammals, so one can infer that raw unthinking emotional sensations are comparable (as I mentioned, reptiles are more primitive and only have the structures associated with the emotions of rage and fear - a miserable existence, if they were conscious). Overall a chimpanzee brain is similar to ours but the cerebral cortex is very much simpler than ours - already when people are born their cerebral cortex is twice the size of the chimpanzee's. And consciousness may not correspond exactly to cortical size but the effects may be exponential.
    , @Lin
    (Let me re-post..)
    ALL YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PROJECT ADAM (and a glimpse into the nature of God)

    Part 0:NATURE OF YAHWEH:

    Yahweh is the 'Holy Father' in heaven and Satan is the 'Lord of the air' (Ephesians 2:1-3).
    Yahweh is technically a superpowerful Extra-Terrestrial entity with ability we mortals can't fathom. I've no intention to paint Yahweh as a green skin creature descended from a flying saucer. But sure 'He' is not of this world. If Yahweh is a biologist, then Earth is a petri dish and human are the micro-organism inside the petri dish sustained by the all powerful Yahweh. Praised be Yahweh
    Yahweh is omnipotent and can pick on multiple gender combos and its blasphemy to say He is 'male' only . He is technically(as well as political correctly) a multi-gender/hermaphrodite extra-terrestrial entity with ability beyond human reach. (Early semite chieftains were so patriachal that they could only relate powerful entities to males)
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-08-15/news/0808141093_1_god-yahweh-backward.

    Part 1: PROJECT ADAM --Something went wrong...

    When Yahweh created non-human higher animals or mammals, both male and female genders were created; but when it came to creating human, Yahweh had a different scheme.
    Genesis 1:26-27--And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So the original plan is making a hermaphrodite human species capable of self-fertilisation or same gender sex.

    Genesis 2:7--And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
    When Yahweh created human, Eve OBVIOUSLY was NOT part of the original plan.
    Now something went very WRONG:
    Genesis 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
    Apparently Adam was looking for a sex mate/'helper' among the animals(male or female).
    The Original Sin of Man had nothing to do with that piece of apple(from the tree of knowing good and evil). Obviously the Original Sin WAS bestial lust if not the actual act of bestiality. What your pastors told you about the original sin is WRONG !!

    Part 2: RESCUE PLAN B or the cloning of Eve

    Genesis 2:21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
    Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
    Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
    Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
    ....
    Because the bio-engineering experiment of Yahweh the powerful extra-terrestrial went terribly wrong and Eve was created to salvage the project. The creation of Eve was likely delegated to Lucifer, an obvious female member of Yahweh's pantheon. An alternative possibility was that Yahweh's grand hermaphrodite plan(like Adam with bulging breasts capable of milking, phallus plus a posterior cavity doubled as both digestive exit and birth canal) was sabotaged by Lucifer the radical feminist.

    Project ADAM part C---JESUS the 'Son' of God

    Jesus, the Son of God and was obviously a result of cloning(or self-splitting from the entity of Yahweh)and growth inside the womb chamber of Virgin Mary without hetero interaction with the latter. There's no confirmed heterosexual record of Jesus. Jesus was finally the 'successful' conclusion of Project ADAM

    Other evidences regarding the original intended biological attributes of man:
    --- Males also have nipples(like all other mammals), ie according to Yahweh's original grand plan, males should also be able to breast feed new borns
    --- Male prostate glands enable male to male sex (otherwise why can't the prostate gland be placed away from the rectum ?)
    --- Roman Catholic priests are forbidden to engage in heterosex but a significant % are homos. Those priests are servant of Yahweh and thus act the way Yahweh intends for them.
    --- There’s no anti-queer 11th Commandment that goes “Thou shalt not comfort thy staff with thy rod


    Final Conclusion:

    1)Homos are true (but unconscious) followers of Yahweh
    2)Heteros and (anti-trans)feminists are (unconscious) followers of Lucifer.
    (Lucifer is not an ugly male with horns as Christian preachers want you to believe; rather most likely a winged naked humanoid seductress belle )
    ..............

  302. @AP

    "Concepts such as “environmental degradation” are human-created."

    It is also easily measured.
     
    Measurements are human ideas and what is measured is a human concept.

    "Nothing wrong with that until the issue of trashing planets is solved. Every new colonized planet is a win so if messing up the environment inspires exploration and expansion of humanity, well then it is a good thing emerging from a bad one."

    A parasite’s behaviour, summed up
     
    You refused to answer my question - do you consider the brain (or perhaps cortex) to be a parasite upon the human body?

    As a pagan you ought to believe that everything is interconnected, part of a gestalt, yet your comments suggest that you view humans as some sort of alien intruder upon the Earth, rather than a part of the Earth (the part of the Earth that is most sentient, and the only part of the Earth that is conscious). Just as brains cause bodies to drink or do other unhealthy things in order to please themselves or accomplish some brain-related goal, humans aren't always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?

    Most of humanity has no consideration for its surrounding and views everything else as expendable in its sole quest for survival.
     
    Humanity is the only thing on this Earth capable of consideration for its surroundings.

    It is like having mercy over a pathological serial killer.
     
    Projection. You are in favor of genocide for 80% of the world's population.

    I take no active interest in killing – which raises serious ethical questions – I am simply unmoved by the suffering of people who do not care about the harm they inflict on others (not just other humans but plants, animals and the planet itself)
     
    So you are a coward who makes excuses for not following through on his beliefs. That is a very good thing, of course, given your beliefs.

    Apparently you think it good for humanity to die for the sake not only of animals and trees but also of rocks and water.

    Measurements are human ideas

    Gravity on Earth doesn’t stop being true if we are suddenly made unaware of it.

    humans aren’t always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?

    You’re exposing your callous and unethical mentality. Such a incomplete moral understanding, as a self-identifying Christian, surely that should bother you.

    who makes excuses for not following through on his beliefs

    I don’t believe in violence. There is nothing inconsistent with what I said. Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn’t mean it would be moral to do so. Solving problems by violence is not ethical. Doesn’t stop me from making the obvious observation that if humanity was wiped out by AI, I wouldn’t mourn much because most of those people have very low and in many cases non-existent ethical and moral convictions.

    Humanity is the only thing on this Earth capable of consideration for its surroundings.

    Humanity is also by far the smartest species. When viewed this way, the only thing that is surprising is how primitive most of our moral understanding still is.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn’t mean it would be moral to do so.
     
    Justice requires giving people what they deserve. So if most of humanity deserves to be wiped out, refusing to wipe them out would be unjust.

    How's the view from the corner you've painted yourself into?
    , @AP

    Measurements are human ideas

    Gravity on Earth doesn’t stop being true if we are suddenly made unaware of it.
     

    Gravity as a concept would not exist if people did not conceptualize it.

    humans aren’t always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?

    You’re exposing your callous and unethical mentality. Such a incomplete moral understanding, as a self-identifying Christian, surely that should bother you.
     

    LOL, you once again dodged the question: do yo consider the brain to be a parasite upon the body?

    A person's cortex decides to go skiing because this is a pleasing activity to it. Skiing is risky, the person falls, breaks his arm and kills tens of millions of cells in his body.

    In your opinion, is his cortex unethical and callous? Would you be happy if he suffered brain death and was in a vegetative state, unable to further harm the body? Would this be an example of the body being rid of a callous, unethical parasite? Your ideal?

    This seems to be your morality and your wish for the Earth in the face of callous humanity.


    Doesn’t stop me from making the obvious observation that if humanity was wiped out by AI, I wouldn’t mourn much because most of those people have very low and in many cases non-existent ethical and moral convictions.
     
    Projection. You have shown us how low your moral convictions are.

    I don’t believe in violence. There is nothing inconsistent with what I said. Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn’t mean it would be moral to do so.
     
    A welcome rationalization for your cowardice and complicity (silviosurfer's comment is accurate).
  303. @Thorfinnsson

    Who cares? It is also correct.
     

    How does it feel to be wrong?

    He should be reminded on a daily basis that he is not more special than any of the other inhabitants. No special rules. Being a mayor is a privilege but also a service. If he suddenly feels too important and too big for his shoes there are tons who can and will gladly replace him – and ought to. Your argumentation is a bizarre form of slave morality.
     

    I disagree.

    A mayor is in fact more special than ordinary inhabitants, as is any other executive indirectly in charge of two million people and directly in charge of however many employees the municipal administration of Budapest has.

    This entitles him to superior social status and a higher standard of living that includes, but is not limited to, superior transportation services.

    You are correct that serving as a mayor is indeed a service, and thus nonperforming mayors should be removed.

    And if you're really bent on destroying cars, I can think of alternatives. Helicopters and private rail cars come to mind. But I'm not sure Budapest is important enough to merit that level of extravagance. A limousine is fine.

    There is no rational reason why death machines weighing several tons of kilos are allowed, especially given that humans are terrible drivers.
     

    The rational reason is that they provide superior speed, comfort, and privacy compared to alternative forms of transportation.

    One of the costs you've highlighted is that people are routinely maimed and killed by cars. True enough, but most vehicular fatalities occur on two-lane highways and not in cities. Decongesting cities and properly segregating incompatible modes of transportation will further reduce urban carnage.

    Drones. Another and much neglected idea is underground transportation. There could be small tubes going up from a large network of pipes transportating various goods from the underground to the surface level, even into buildings.
     

    Agreed, and this has been done before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube#In_postal_service

    It appears that Prague's system operated as late as 2002.


    This is smol-brained incrementalism. Cut the problem off at the root.
     
    The root is the systematic under-pricing of motorized surface transportation, not the existence of cars. This is why I was pleased when the City of Chicago auctioned off the city's parking to a private operator, even if the deal was corrupt and harmful to the city's future finances. A private operator can appropriately price parking in a manner that the municipal administration cannot, because voters irrationally demand "free" parking everywhere.

    A mayor is in fact more special than ordinary inhabitants

    A mayor is more like a figurehead for a well-oiled bureaucracy who is sent to do the bidding of his or her voters. That is a service role and the moment he or she forgets that and starts thinking more about titles is the time they should get booted. One way to remind them of this is to make sure they get no special privileges.

    This entitles him to superior social status

    Slave morality.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson


    A mayor is more like a figurehead for a well-oiled bureaucracy who is sent to do the bidding of his or her voters. That is a service role and the moment he or she forgets that and starts thinking more about titles is the time they should get booted. One way to remind them of this is to make sure they get no special privileges.
     
    If the mayor is a mere figurehead, then it ought to be an honorific position. One could have a powerless but prestigious hereditary lord mayor, or another possibility is that distinguished citizens at the conclusion of a long career are appointed to the position.

    If it's an active executive position, then you want to recruit talented people for the position. Talented people have better options other than a political office in which you're expected to ride a bicycle like an ordinary person to work.

    Slave morality.
     
    Or perhaps not, since I enjoy superior social status compared to ordinary people.

    But the concept itself is troublesome. It was created by a mentally unstable man filled with hatred for his own countrymen and for Christianity. When this man's King and Emperor triumphantly entered Jerusalem at the close of the 19th century, he gave a speech in which he noted that the great German people that Nietzche so despised became great under the cross.

    My understanding is that you are a pagan, at least in outlook, and this has led you to a Linkola mindset in which you wish for the vast majority of humans to die because we intrude on the tranquility of lesser animals. I don't spend too much time on philosophy, but from a consequentialist standpoint this certainly doesn't do your own kind many favors.
  304. @Thulean Friend

    Measurements are human ideas
     
    Gravity on Earth doesn't stop being true if we are suddenly made unaware of it.

    humans aren’t always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?
     
    You're exposing your callous and unethical mentality. Such a incomplete moral understanding, as a self-identifying Christian, surely that should bother you.

    who makes excuses for not following through on his beliefs
     
    I don't believe in violence. There is nothing inconsistent with what I said. Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn't mean it would be moral to do so. Solving problems by violence is not ethical. Doesn't stop me from making the obvious observation that if humanity was wiped out by AI, I wouldn't mourn much because most of those people have very low and in many cases non-existent ethical and moral convictions.

    Humanity is the only thing on this Earth capable of consideration for its surroundings.
     
    Humanity is also by far the smartest species. When viewed this way, the only thing that is surprising is how primitive most of our moral understanding still is.

    Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn’t mean it would be moral to do so.

    Justice requires giving people what they deserve. So if most of humanity deserves to be wiped out, refusing to wipe them out would be unjust.

    How’s the view from the corner you’ve painted yourself into?

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    A convicted child rapist deserves to be executed, but still shouldn't because capital punishment is morally wrong. The ideal of non-violence is sacrosanct and supercedes all others.

    That's why I would never harm another person even when they deserve it - and I haven't made it a secret that I think most do. None of that matters because it is superceded by a higher principle that I adhere to.

    The difference between a civilised society and a brutish one is that the former can tame passions, even when those passions are justified, in favor of a higher principle.

    Something which you obviously cannot grasp.

  305. @Thorfinnsson
    You stupid, niggling pedant

    https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/akshually-jew-kike-geek-618x618.png

    I hope you are dragged behind a truck, beaten with bats, and shot

    Re: Thorfinnsson’s conniption

    It’s 2019 – they have pills for that now.

    He just demonstrated my point for everyone to see – Germanics are a failed
    civilization. Lack of Buddhist/Aristotelian moderation will do it every time.

  306. @Dmitry

    we, made in God’s image, do.
     
    If man is in God's image - God would have a mouth, presumably because he needs to eat things. Similarly God must have legs, so he can walk around. I wonder if God has to cut his nails?

    It's also quite strange that God would have to resemble one of the great apes in morphology or mind. Great ape is far from the most beautiful animal category even from our own (belonging to great ape's) perception.

    Of course, it's also immodesty and hubris, to imagine God or gods, has anything in common with us (humans), beyond the possibly that perhaps all minds have to recognize the same universals - such as logic or the laws of nature (if a god or gods would not be somehow "outside" such laws of nature).


    Animals are not self-conscious and cannot appreciate, judge or consider the natural world as we,

     

    The important thing is consciousness. Non-human animals are stupider than humans, and less complex in behaviour - above all, not able to construct much culture (although different orca pods, for example, have developed different cultures and languages to a limited extent, and even things like music had a basis in our non-human ancestors).

    But animals have consciousness, and therefore perceive and appreciate world, sometimes more accurately than we.

    Consciousness would be a far more essential breakthrough in the universe, than the particular gradation of complexity of thoughts which might go through our mind (in addition humans have more complex thought than an Orca, but probably less detailed perceptions).

    As for the type of animals' consciousness, it's not difficult to assume that an animal like a chimpanzee will have almost the same first personal experience as our own, considering similarity of the brain - with even the folding the tissue in the brain in the same patterns.

    https://i.imgur.com/dVdFwLu.jpg

    If man is in God’s image – God would have a mouth, presumably because he needs to eat things. Similarly God must have legs, so he can walk around. I wonder if God has to cut his nails?

    “In God’s image” means that man is a supernatural being with free will.

    Consciousness would be a far more essential breakthrough in the universe, than the particular gradation of complexity of thoughts which might go through our mind

    Consciousness is irrelevant; my phone is ‘conscious’, for certain values of ‘consciousness’.

    What’s important is free will, free will being the singularity of information complexity. (Or information entropy, if you will, which is the same thing.)

  307. @(((They))) Live
    https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2019/10/29/the-spacex-starship-is-a-very-big-deal/

    You should have a read of that

    https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2019/11/02/starlink-is-a-very-big-deal/

    And this too, in fact anyone with an interest in Space/Mars/the Moon ect should read both links

    https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2019/11/02/starlink-is-a-very-big-deal/

    Your shitty link doesn’t even mention the problem of uplink connectivity, which is the real problem in satellite Internet. (Not the rest of the irrelevant verbal diarrhea in your link.)

    • Replies: @(((They))) live
    We will know by this time next year if you're right or wrong
  308. @Dmitry

    should not be riding a bicycle to work. He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position..
     
    There is a problem of politicians trying to counter-signal that they are "one of the ordinary cattle", when they go on bicycle, or public transport. It's a cheap way for them to pretend they are modest and responsible people.

    In principle, this is desirable, however. And when politicians counter-signal like this, at least it shows a society with civilized aspirations - even if somewhat gullible voters. It's step above when officials brazenly view themselves as so above the cattle, that they cannot sit in a trolleybus with them. The next stage, officials' children cannot go to a school with cattle's children - they have to be in England or Switzerland. And they cannot fly in lowcost airlines, and they need to buy a yacht for their mistress, etc.

    -

    As for bicycle. It's one of the best transports, aside from some things like "gondola", "rowing boat" (which are not practical for many cities which lack canals).

    Bicycle does not create traffic, it does not cause air pollution, it does not create noise pollution, and it encourages residents to lose weight .

    It's not surprising, the predominance of bicycles with the most rational and well behaved English demographic. Recall how people travel in Oxford University

    http://smapse.ru/storage/2018/07/converted/885_0_obuchenie-v-kembridzhe-dlya-russkih.jpg

    One of life’s sweet memories was coming to Oxford for the first time as a young man, turning onto just such an alley, and seeing a lovely young Oxford maiden riding her bicycle, her gown and auburn hair flowing in the wind.

    It’s almost enough to make me approve of admitting women to Oxford.

  309. Re: Minorities in Poland

    I visit Poland regularly although I’m by no means an expert. Last time
    I was there in 2018. A few general observations:

    1. Poland is too far north, compared to Romania, Hungary, or even Czechia,
    to have had many Gypsies. Nevertheless, 10-15 years ago, one would
    sometimes see Gypsies panhandling near large restaurants, and even sending
    their kids inside to bother the diners wanting to eat in peace. By contrast, more
    recently, I haven’t seen any Gypsies, at least not in large cities. They must’ve moved
    to Western Europe;

    2. Last time I was staying at a mid-price hotel in central Warsaw. After arriving I
    decided to have dinner at a nearby outdoor restaurant. I was surrounded there
    mostly by young people speaking English (with no accents) or occasionally breaking
    into Polish or Polglish (mixture of Polish and English). English is ubiquitous in
    Poland’s major cities to a much greater extent than in Germany, and, of course,
    there is no comparison to France, which I also visit fairly often;

    3. In the last 3-5 years Poland has been inundated by Jewish tourists and pilgrims.
    Of course, this is partly connected to the fact that for centuries Poland was hosting
    the world’s largest Jewish population, approaching 10% of the general population
    at times. E.g., in 1939 Poland was 15% Ukrainian and 10% Jewish. Still, this
    sudden Jewish influx is interesting, and I’ll devote a separate post to it;

    4. Ukrainians at roughly 2 million (i.e., 5% of the population) have by now become
    part of the scenery. I hardly even notice them anymore. At my hotel there was
    at least one Ukrainian girl working at the reception desk (and one fellow who
    spoke fluent Persian). The cultural differences are minor, and as someone here
    noted, Ukrainian is basically a heavily polonized Russian or Ruthenian (AP might
    question that). I personally like eastern (“kresowe”) accents, like the type of
    accents spoken in prewar Lvov. I even went to a Ukrainian restaurant to try their
    specialties, esp. kvas which I read about but never tried before;

    5. The Vietnamese have now been part of the scenery for decades, and being Catholic,
    they have assimilated well. There are actually very few of them, perhaps 70,000.
    In Warsaw you mostly see them in the subterranean commercial passages near
    the Central station. Poland, living up to its reputation as Holy Poland, is perfectly safe –
    it has lower murder rates than Germany, France or Britain;

    6. Lipka Tatars. mostly found in northeastern Poland, are few in number, and except
    for colorful costumes, have been totally assimilated for centuries:

    7. I personally in Warsaw saw very few subcons or blacks. Once in a long while
    you will run into a lone black at crowded shopping centers but that’s about it in
    my experience. At clothing stores, however, you will occasionally see big ads
    featuring black fellows. That’s in a country which is 99% white. In general, it’s
    a wonderful experience to visit a country that is so beautifully white, while
    realizing that whites, at perhaps 1 billion, have basically become an endangered
    species and need to be protected.

    There is no place like Central Europe! Poland is my home but I also love to visit
    Czechia, and still hope to visit Hungary. As to Slovakia, Poland and Slovakia
    share the magnificent Alpine scenery of the Tatra mountains where I spent many
    happy hours mountain-climbing as a youth. Zakopane is perhaps the only place
    left in Europe where the highlanders will break into a song at a moment’s notice
    to the astonishment of the tourists.

  310. @songbird
    When I speak of sufficient gravity, I am really talking about human anatomy and physiology. And, of course, plant biology.

    When it comes to orbit, we know micro gravity is not enough for humans. At a bare minimum there is muscle and bone loss - if you extrapolate the trend lines, this would be fatal. Perhaps there are ways to address these problems - I think bone loss is approachable - but then you get to the problem of plumbing.

    Potentially, Martian gravity would be enough to solve these problems, or make them solvable with slight tweaks - drugs or gene editing. But is it enough for normal cellular communication and development? For sperm to fertilize egg, for stem cells to differentiate and organize properly into different tissues and organs? For healthy babies to be born? For normal adolescence? For normal development of the brain?

    A magnetosphere is actually unnecessary, unless you are terraforming, or want to walk the surface. A few inches of dirt are sufficient to block harmful radiation. An atmosphere is likewise unnecessary, as you can pressurize underground spaces, with a certain a mount of gravity, a leak isn't catastrophic. Food would be grown underground, in my view.

    I know giving up the sky doesn't sound pleasant, but I think of cathedral-like spaces, art museums, botanical gardens, zoos. Bicycle paths that are kilometers long. Skating rinks and indoor ski slopes - though I don't know if these would work. Best of all, I think of hundreds of millions of Europeans free from the menace of rubber dinghies.

    Best of all, I think of hundreds of millions of Europeans free from the menace of rubber dinghies.

    This is pure fantasy.

    The rest I like very much but we must realise there always will be rubber dinghies. The need for them comes from the inside not outside. So there will be rubber dinghies on Mars or their equivalent even if their occupants have to be mass cloned.

  311. @Dmitry

    we, made in God’s image, do.
     
    If man is in God's image - God would have a mouth, presumably because he needs to eat things. Similarly God must have legs, so he can walk around. I wonder if God has to cut his nails?

    It's also quite strange that God would have to resemble one of the great apes in morphology or mind. Great ape is far from the most beautiful animal category even from our own (belonging to great ape's) perception.

    Of course, it's also immodesty and hubris, to imagine God or gods, has anything in common with us (humans), beyond the possibly that perhaps all minds have to recognize the same universals - such as logic or the laws of nature (if a god or gods would not be somehow "outside" such laws of nature).


    Animals are not self-conscious and cannot appreciate, judge or consider the natural world as we,

     

    The important thing is consciousness. Non-human animals are stupider than humans, and less complex in behaviour - above all, not able to construct much culture (although different orca pods, for example, have developed different cultures and languages to a limited extent, and even things like music had a basis in our non-human ancestors).

    But animals have consciousness, and therefore perceive and appreciate world, sometimes more accurately than we.

    Consciousness would be a far more essential breakthrough in the universe, than the particular gradation of complexity of thoughts which might go through our mind (in addition humans have more complex thought than an Orca, but probably less detailed perceptions).

    As for the type of animals' consciousness, it's not difficult to assume that an animal like a chimpanzee will have almost the same first personal experience as our own, considering similarity of the brain - with even the folding the tissue in the brain in the same patterns.

    https://i.imgur.com/dVdFwLu.jpg

    If man is in God’s image – God would have a mouth, presumably because he needs to eat things. Similarly God must have legs, so he can walk around. I wonder if God has to cut his nails?

    You are being deliberately daft.

    It’s also quite strange that God would have to resemble one of the great apes in morphology or mind. Great ape is far from the most beautiful animal category even from our own (belonging to great ape’s) perception.

    But no animal is really as beautiful and inspiring as the good human form. It would be silly if someone like Michelangelo devoted his sculptures to cats.

    We view other apes as ugly because they are closer to us and thus imperfect or grotesque versions of us. Presumably if we had arisen from tigers we would view leopards as similarly ugly and apes as majestic.

    Of course, it’s also immodesty and hubris, to imagine God or gods, has anything in common with us (humans)

    He came to Earth as one of us; that’s simply reality, and is no more a prideful statement that the claim that we are more intelligent etc. than anything else known in the natural universe.

    The important thing is consciousness. Non-human animals are stupider than humans, and less complex in behaviour – above all, not able to construct much culture (although different orca pods, for example, have developed different cultures and languages to a limited extent, and even things like music had a basis in our non-human ancestors).

    But animals have consciousness, and therefore perceive and appreciate world, sometimes more accurately than we.

    The important thing is self-consciousness. Animals can perceive (often better than we can) but cannot appreciate, contemplate, have opinions of, reflect upon, the world. They only operate on instinct and physical sensations (pain, pleasure) in the case of lower animals such as insects, plus emotions in the case of higher animals (in accordance with bran structure, emotions limited to fear and rage in reptiles, love appears in mammals and birds). They can be conditioned through trial and error and sometimes observation but cannot reflect on what they have learned. There is no moral consideration.

    Orca or chimpanzee “culture” is limited to patterns of learned tool use or communication by groups that is passed on through observation. It is silly to compare this to human culture.

    As for the type of animals’ consciousness, it’s not difficult to assume that an animal like a chimpanzee will have almost the same first personal experience as our own

    The “spark” that enables true consciousness may depend on slight differences but the effects enormous. The parts of the brain responsible for emotions are mostly identical for all mammals, so one can infer that raw unthinking emotional sensations are comparable (as I mentioned, reptiles are more primitive and only have the structures associated with the emotions of rage and fear – a miserable existence, if they were conscious). Overall a chimpanzee brain is similar to ours but the cerebral cortex is very much simpler than ours – already when people are born their cerebral cortex is twice the size of the chimpanzee’s. And consciousness may not correspond exactly to cortical size but the effects may be exponential.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    deliberately daft.

     

    If God has a mouth, then he would have to eat. If God has legs, then he would have to walk. Also, if this is not some coincidence of convergent evolution, he would not have this form, if he has not followed same evolutionary path as humans - so in the past he would have been a single-cell organism, then something like a sea cucumber, then a tetrapod, then early monkey.

    As our current form is not a co-incidence, but contains history of many of our earlier non-human ancestors. Moreover, with e.g. probable symbiogenesis of mitochondria - our form is a result even of very specific historical events like incorporation of other organisms.

    really as beautiful and inspiring as the good human form. It would be silly if someone like Michelangelo devoted his
     

    Human form is not the most beautiful animal according to our own eyes, and basic aesthetic principles like symmetry.

    If you think human form is especially beautiful, you can volunteer to join the nudist camp. The fact humans - living in warm countries - still invented clothes, and look better in clothes, is evidence of the general opinion.

    In the case of artists, it's actually easier (needs less talent) to portray a beautiful animal, than the human nude. You only have to look at Franz Marc. On the other hand, the beautiful nude - I don't think some artists like Titian has achieved this even when the subjects are all young women (sexually attractive perhaps, but not objective beauty).

    Michelangelo sculpture can express heroic figures, emotions, culture, history and stories, which is only possible when you portray humans.

    If we were not great apes, but a race of intelligent cats, in feline society, then our sculptures would include heroic cats, mythical cats, etc.


    He came to Earth as one of us; that’s simply reality, and is no more a prideful statement

     

    If you are going to tell me something about Indra or Zeus.

    important thing is self-consciousness. Animals can perceive (often better than we can) but cannot appreciate, contemplate, have opinions of, reflect upon, the world.
     
    Important and mysterious thing is consciousness.

    Having opinions, or reflecting about things, is more content than form - and it can be more like mental clutter or distraction, which we experience like a voice in our mind. You can quiet the voice in your mind, and experience consciousness without this layer, and you are still just as conscious and appreciative, sometimes more.

    When you are not having opinions and thoughts about what you are doing, you are sometimes more in the flow and appreciating the world.

    As for animals - they can sometimes appreciate better than humans, depending on the situation. For example, you might have so many worries, you do see it is a sunny day. Meanwhile, your cat might next to the window, appreciating every moment.


    And consciousness may not correspond exactly to cortical size but the effects may be exponential.
     
    As we have little knowledge how consciousness is generated, this could be possible, if evidence was only limited to looking at similarity of the brains (although the similarity of other mammals' brains and human brains, would be evidence that they are probably having a very similar experience).

    But we also have holistic experience of animals - even just your cat or dog - and from that you know they have the "spark" of consciousness, and a lot of similar emotions. Any cat owners, know how they experience being curious, bored, annoyed, etc.

  312. @Thulean Friend

    Measurements are human ideas
     
    Gravity on Earth doesn't stop being true if we are suddenly made unaware of it.

    humans aren’t always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?
     
    You're exposing your callous and unethical mentality. Such a incomplete moral understanding, as a self-identifying Christian, surely that should bother you.

    who makes excuses for not following through on his beliefs
     
    I don't believe in violence. There is nothing inconsistent with what I said. Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn't mean it would be moral to do so. Solving problems by violence is not ethical. Doesn't stop me from making the obvious observation that if humanity was wiped out by AI, I wouldn't mourn much because most of those people have very low and in many cases non-existent ethical and moral convictions.

    Humanity is the only thing on this Earth capable of consideration for its surroundings.
     
    Humanity is also by far the smartest species. When viewed this way, the only thing that is surprising is how primitive most of our moral understanding still is.

    Measurements are human ideas

    Gravity on Earth doesn’t stop being true if we are suddenly made unaware of it.

    Gravity as a concept would not exist if people did not conceptualize it.

    humans aren’t always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?

    You’re exposing your callous and unethical mentality. Such a incomplete moral understanding, as a self-identifying Christian, surely that should bother you.

    LOL, you once again dodged the question: do yo consider the brain to be a parasite upon the body?

    A person’s cortex decides to go skiing because this is a pleasing activity to it. Skiing is risky, the person falls, breaks his arm and kills tens of millions of cells in his body.

    In your opinion, is his cortex unethical and callous? Would you be happy if he suffered brain death and was in a vegetative state, unable to further harm the body? Would this be an example of the body being rid of a callous, unethical parasite? Your ideal?

    This seems to be your morality and your wish for the Earth in the face of callous humanity.

    Doesn’t stop me from making the obvious observation that if humanity was wiped out by AI, I wouldn’t mourn much because most of those people have very low and in many cases non-existent ethical and moral convictions.

    Projection. You have shown us how low your moral convictions are.

    I don’t believe in violence. There is nothing inconsistent with what I said. Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn’t mean it would be moral to do so.

    A welcome rationalization for your cowardice and complicity (silviosurfer’s comment is accurate).

    • LOL: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Gravity as a concept would not exist if people did not conceptualize it.
     
    This is a legitimately crazy/hilarious quote. Are you a creationist?
  313. @silviosilver

    Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn’t mean it would be moral to do so.
     
    Justice requires giving people what they deserve. So if most of humanity deserves to be wiped out, refusing to wipe them out would be unjust.

    How's the view from the corner you've painted yourself into?

    A convicted child rapist deserves to be executed, but still shouldn’t because capital punishment is morally wrong. The ideal of non-violence is sacrosanct and supercedes all others.

    That’s why I would never harm another person even when they deserve it – and I haven’t made it a secret that I think most do. None of that matters because it is superceded by a higher principle that I adhere to.

    The difference between a civilised society and a brutish one is that the former can tame passions, even when those passions are justified, in favor of a higher principle.

    Something which you obviously cannot grasp.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Why is capital punishment morally wrong?

    You are a peculiar case - I can see the foundations of radical conservationist/econazism in you.

    It would not be too bad a thing, except for the 3-4 billion of those deemed unworthy of consumption, oxygen and carbon footprint.

    Greenpeace meets Green Necrons.

    , @EldnahYm
    If you want to breed a tamer species killing off the more aggressive members is effective.

    Capital punishment is morally right. Allowing undesirables to survive and reproduce is the greatest of all evils. This is why eugenics is morally correct. Wanting to leave the world a better place is a higher principle than wanting to be pleasant.

    Civilization would be impossible without force. All forms of order, all societies, all organization, only exists because it has superseded other forms.

    You seem to want to worship nature but not to learn from it. This seems to me a contradictory view. Not that the views being argued by others here are any better.

    , @Dreadilk
    Thank God you and those who think like you are pussies
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Why is non-violence sacrosanct?
    , @Korenchkin

    Something which you obviously cannot grasp.
     
    Hardly anyone can grasp feeding and caring for someone who has done inexcusable wrong and will never EVER be of use to your society again, all on taxpayer dime
    The Nordic moral supremacy circle jerk is driving them to extinction
    , @silviosilver

    That’s why I would never harm another person even when they deserve it
     
    Cowardice masquerading as morality.
    , @silviosilver

    The difference between a civilised society and a brutish one is that the former can tame passions, even when those passions are justified, in favor of a higher principle.
     
    Pacifism is powerless to defend civilization against barbarity; it invites it and virtually guarantees it.

    The only reason you're able to hold to your pacifist ideals and imagine yourself my moral superior is because most people reject your morality and are willing to suppress violence with violence.
  314. @AP

    Measurements are human ideas

    Gravity on Earth doesn’t stop being true if we are suddenly made unaware of it.
     

    Gravity as a concept would not exist if people did not conceptualize it.

    humans aren’t always the most gentle to the Earth they are a part of on account of their wishes and pleasures. So?

    You’re exposing your callous and unethical mentality. Such a incomplete moral understanding, as a self-identifying Christian, surely that should bother you.
     

    LOL, you once again dodged the question: do yo consider the brain to be a parasite upon the body?

    A person's cortex decides to go skiing because this is a pleasing activity to it. Skiing is risky, the person falls, breaks his arm and kills tens of millions of cells in his body.

    In your opinion, is his cortex unethical and callous? Would you be happy if he suffered brain death and was in a vegetative state, unable to further harm the body? Would this be an example of the body being rid of a callous, unethical parasite? Your ideal?

    This seems to be your morality and your wish for the Earth in the face of callous humanity.


    Doesn’t stop me from making the obvious observation that if humanity was wiped out by AI, I wouldn’t mourn much because most of those people have very low and in many cases non-existent ethical and moral convictions.
     
    Projection. You have shown us how low your moral convictions are.

    I don’t believe in violence. There is nothing inconsistent with what I said. Most of humanity does deserve to be wiped out, but that doesn’t mean it would be moral to do so.
     
    A welcome rationalization for your cowardice and complicity (silviosurfer's comment is accurate).

    Gravity as a concept would not exist if people did not conceptualize it.

    This is a legitimately crazy/hilarious quote. Are you a creationist?

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Are you a creationist?
     
    He's a shitty human bean, but people who pride themselves on believing the most anti-scientific ideology imaginable - that something came from nothing in direct violation of all known laws of statistics - are even worse.
    , @AP
    Do you believe that, for example, snails have a concept of gravity?

    Your failure to respond to other points is noticed.

    Your ”morality” points to the rottenness and sinister nature underlying Buddhist and Hindu ethical systems. Favoring non-human nature over humanity is very much like favoring muscle or blood cells over cortical neurons. In both cases it is a preference for unconsciousness over will and consciousness, which seems to match the ideal of Nirvana - nihilism, emptiness. You are of course too cowardly to give it to yourself and thank God too much of a coward to give this to others.
  315. @Thulean Friend

    Gravity as a concept would not exist if people did not conceptualize it.
     
    This is a legitimately crazy/hilarious quote. Are you a creationist?

    Are you a creationist?

    He’s a shitty human bean, but people who pride themselves on believing the most anti-scientific ideology imaginable – that something came from nothing in direct violation of all known laws of statistics – are even worse.

  316. @Thulean Friend
    A convicted child rapist deserves to be executed, but still shouldn't because capital punishment is morally wrong. The ideal of non-violence is sacrosanct and supercedes all others.

    That's why I would never harm another person even when they deserve it - and I haven't made it a secret that I think most do. None of that matters because it is superceded by a higher principle that I adhere to.

    The difference between a civilised society and a brutish one is that the former can tame passions, even when those passions are justified, in favor of a higher principle.

    Something which you obviously cannot grasp.

    Why is capital punishment morally wrong?

    You are a peculiar case – I can see the foundations of radical conservationist/econazism in you.

    It would not be too bad a thing, except for the 3-4 billion of those deemed unworthy of consumption, oxygen and carbon footprint.

    Greenpeace meets Green Necrons.

  317. @Thulean Friend
    A convicted child rapist deserves to be executed, but still shouldn't because capital punishment is morally wrong. The ideal of non-violence is sacrosanct and supercedes all others.

    That's why I would never harm another person even when they deserve it - and I haven't made it a secret that I think most do. None of that matters because it is superceded by a higher principle that I adhere to.

    The difference between a civilised society and a brutish one is that the former can tame passions, even when those passions are justified, in favor of a higher principle.

    Something which you obviously cannot grasp.

    If you want to breed a tamer species killing off the more aggressive members is effective.

    Capital punishment is morally right. Allowing undesirables to survive and reproduce is the greatest of all evils. This is why eugenics is morally correct. Wanting to leave the world a better place is a higher principle than wanting to be pleasant.

    Civilization would be impossible without force. All forms of order, all societies, all organization, only exists because it has superseded other forms.

    You seem to want to worship nature but not to learn from it. This seems to me a contradictory view. Not that the views being argued by others here are any better.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    If you want to breed a tamer species killing off the more aggressive members is effective.

     

    On a strictly practical level, though, by preventing their reproduction one can accomplish the same thing of effective germline elimination without executing the specific vector for it. This consumes more resources, of course; all of Thulean's ideas assume a nigh infinite supply of energy and resources stretching into infinity, supported and supplied by the virtue of moral ideas, which is really rather questionable.

    It is, though, a form of faith. One can find some reason to admire all such strong faiths.
  318. @Russiantroll
    First all Sindh was always different from Hind even before Arabs

    Second there is no map in existence that shows India going over Pakistan

    Third Sindhis/Pashtuns/Balochis/Kalash/Paharis are already proven they are genetically different from Indians as harappa and gedmatch reveals.

    4th Mirpuris are a tough race in britain, they pimp your jatt women out with the white women in britain and even your white master cant stop them

    5th sindh/pashtun/balochi/paharis were buddhist before Islam not hindu

    Some minority hindus lived in Lahore no where else

    Sindhis were buddhist before bin qasim arrived

    Sindh and Hind are the same word..

  319. @Rebel0007
    Don’t expect anything to improve with Jay Clayton as SEC Chair, and his wife,Gretchen Butler Clayton and her father, who was CEO of CSC and mysterious WMB Holdings which share the same address in addition to many Goldman Sachs divisions. Gretchen was employed by Goldman Sachs as an attorney from 1999-2017. Many companies affiliated with the Panama Papers share the same address as well.

    Secrecy has expanded under Clayton.

    https://wallstreetonparade.com/2018/01/wall-streets-top-cop-cant-shake-money-ties-to-mysterious-firm/

    Do you think that it is more likely that of the approximately 300,000 names in the Panama Papers that only 36 were Americans, or that many Americans stole foreign identities, or some group did on their behalf, to hide the investments from authorities, and planned on living a double life with more than one identity?

    Do you think that it is more likely that of the approximately 300,000 names in the Panama Papers that only 36 were Americans, or that many Americans stole foreign identities, or some group did on their behalf, to hide the investments from authorities, and planned on living a double life with more than one identity?

    Americans are less likely to hide investments offshore for several major reasons:

    1 – The USA taxes worldwide income, making such vehicles pointless unless they’re criminal
    2 – FATCA means that criminal investment vehicles abroad (or even legal foreign bank accounts) for US citizens are increasingly rare
    3 – Relative to most other advanced economies top tax brackets in the USA are modest, especially for capital gains

  320. @Thulean Friend
    A convicted child rapist deserves to be executed, but still shouldn't because capital punishment is morally wrong. The ideal of non-violence is sacrosanct and supercedes all others.

    That's why I would never harm another person even when they deserve it - and I haven't made it a secret that I think most do. None of that matters because it is superceded by a higher principle that I adhere to.

    The difference between a civilised society and a brutish one is that the former can tame passions, even when those passions are justified, in favor of a higher principle.

    Something which you obviously cannot grasp.

    Thank God you and those who think like you are pussies

    • Agree: AP
  321. @Thulean Friend

    Gravity as a concept would not exist if people did not conceptualize it.
     
    This is a legitimately crazy/hilarious quote. Are you a creationist?

    Do you believe that, for example, snails have a concept of gravity?

    Your failure to respond to other points is noticed.

    Your ”morality” points to the rottenness and sinister nature underlying Buddhist and Hindu ethical systems. Favoring non-human nature over humanity is very much like favoring muscle or blood cells over cortical neurons. In both cases it is a preference for unconsciousness over will and consciousness, which seems to match the ideal of Nirvana – nihilism, emptiness. You are of course too cowardly to give it to yourself and thank God too much of a coward to give this to others.

  322. @Russiantroll
    Punjabi Jatts are filthy hindus with turbans

    Anybody can tell a Azad Kashmiri from a Punjabi from miles away in terms of looks and attitude in britain

    Azad Kashmiris are buddhist before Islam

    This is why AJK and Pathans live in Bradford without issues while Punjabi jatts live in Southall and are also cowardly in nature.

    Sikhs and Hindus are slaves to white people, always have been and always will be

    Mirpuris and Pathans are warriors and fight them

    Anybody can tell a Azad Kashmiri from a Punjabi from miles away in terms of looks and attitude in britain

    Is that really so? Some photographic evidence definitely will help.

  323. @EldnahYm
    If you want to breed a tamer species killing off the more aggressive members is effective.

    Capital punishment is morally right. Allowing undesirables to survive and reproduce is the greatest of all evils. This is why eugenics is morally correct. Wanting to leave the world a better place is a higher principle than wanting to be pleasant.

    Civilization would be impossible without force. All forms of order, all societies, all organization, only exists because it has superseded other forms.

    You seem to want to worship nature but not to learn from it. This seems to me a contradictory view. Not that the views being argued by others here are any better.

    If you want to breed a tamer species killing off the more aggressive members is effective.

    On a strictly practical level, though, by preventing their reproduction one can accomplish the same thing of effective germline elimination without executing the specific vector for it. This consumes more resources, of course; all of Thulean’s ideas assume a nigh infinite supply of energy and resources stretching into infinity, supported and supplied by the virtue of moral ideas, which is really rather questionable.

    It is, though, a form of faith. One can find some reason to admire all such strong faiths.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    It is, though, a form of faith. One can find some reason to admire all such strong faiths.
     
    And to dread them, too.
  324. @Dmitry

    should not be riding a bicycle to work. He should be chauffeured as is befitting his position..
     
    There is a problem of politicians trying to counter-signal that they are "one of the ordinary cattle", when they go on bicycle, or public transport. It's a cheap way for them to pretend they are modest and responsible people.

    In principle, this is desirable, however. And when politicians counter-signal like this, at least it shows a society with civilized aspirations - even if somewhat gullible voters. It's step above when officials brazenly view themselves as so above the cattle, that they cannot sit in a trolleybus with them. The next stage, officials' children cannot go to a school with cattle's children - they have to be in England or Switzerland. And they cannot fly in lowcost airlines, and they need to buy a yacht for their mistress, etc.

    -

    As for bicycle. It's one of the best transports, aside from some things like "gondola", "rowing boat" (which are not practical for many cities which lack canals).

    Bicycle does not create traffic, it does not cause air pollution, it does not create noise pollution, and it encourages residents to lose weight .

    It's not surprising, the predominance of bicycles with the most rational and well behaved English demographic. Recall how people travel in Oxford University

    http://smapse.ru/storage/2018/07/converted/885_0_obuchenie-v-kembridzhe-dlya-russkih.jpg

    There is a problem of politicians trying to counter-signal that they are “one of the ordinary cattle”, when they go on bicycle, or public transport. It’s a cheap way for them to pretend they are modest and responsible people.

    In principle, this is desirable, however. And when politicians counter-signal like this, at least it shows a society with civilized aspirations – even if somewhat gullible voters. It’s step above when officials brazenly view themselves as so above the cattle, that they cannot sit in a trolleybus with them. The next stage, officials’ children cannot go to a school with cattle’s children – they have to be in England or Switzerland. And they cannot fly in lowcost airlines, and they need to buy a yacht for their mistress, etc.

    I don’t think it shows a civilized aspiration. It shows that the envy of commoners has become an important political factor.

    That’s not to say that it’s desirable to have extreme hierarchy or, worse, corrupt hierarchy in which elites transfer their children and assets abroad.

    As with many other things, a happy medium is best.

    As for bicycle. It’s one of the best transports, aside from some things like “gondola”, “rowing boat” (which are not practical for many cities which lack canals).

    Bicycle does not create traffic, it does not cause air pollution, it does not create noise pollution, and it encourages residents to lose weight .

    It’s not surprising, the predominance of bicycles with the most rational and well behaved English demographic. Recall how people travel in Oxford University

    Bicycle transport has many advantages, and when the weather is decent I ride my bicycle as well.

    It does not encourage residents to lose weight, however–unless you mean that outdoor physical activity makes people think about it. Increased energy expenditure (and bicycle commuting does not really involve much increase to begin with–even running a marathon costs only 2,000 calories) simply increases hunger.

    To lose weight, it’s necessary to reduce energy intake beneath energy expenditure. Since even a sedentary human body consumes a large amount of energy to maintain itself, increasing energetic expenditure is irrelevant. The goals should instead be to optimize the body’s fat burning processes, to limit hunger, and to activate physiological insulin resistance (as opposed to chronic). The best strategy for this is a LCHF diet in which the ratio of saturated fat to other fats consumed exceeds 1.

    Of course, cycling has other physiological and mental benefits unrelated to weight loss.

    • Replies: @Mikel

    even running a marathon costs only 2,000 calories
     
    That sounds like an implausible figure to me. In my less than an hour uphill running routine I burn ~1,000 kcal. Although I do it mostly for fun. Nothing beats the endorphin release of extreme aerobic exercise, coupled with the noticeable benefits of having all your organs receive an accelerated flow of blood/oxygen. I don't get anything like that lifting weights. And it also keeps me fit for my mountaineering activities.

    In any case, have you looked at the fat deposits of