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Here’s a new Open Thread for all of you. To minimize the load, please continue to limit your Tweets or place them under a MORE tag.

And here’s my own recent article for those who haven’t already seen it:

https://www.unz.com/runz/the-alt-covid-community-begins-unraveling-the-origins-of-covid/

 
• Tags: Open Thread, Russia, Ukraine 
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  1. A123 says: • Website

    Mr. Unz,

    The new thread is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇

     

    • Agree: Bo Bo, AnonfromTN
  2. songbird says:

    Always notable to me how Turks in Germany looked, on average, quite a bit different than the Greeks that I have known in America.

    Had wondered if that was because they were Kurds or something (a lot of them are Kurds), but according to this map, Greeks are more closely related to the French than to Turks:

    [MORE]

    Surprising to me since Greece and Turkey used to be one landmass.

    No wonder they fight.

  3. songbird says:

    Often feel weirded out by protests in Continental Europe where they are shouting slogans in English. But I think the absolute height of this is when they were shouting “Free the Leopards!” in Berlin.

    Even if they weren’t German, couldn’t they have bothered to learn it in German?

    Perhaps, it is all a Machiavellian move by the Poles to increase their armor advantage even more.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @S
  4. Yahya says:
    @songbird

    but according to this map, Greeks are more closely related to the French than to Turks:

    You are being deceitful by selecting France as the basis for comparison.

    Greeks are closer genetically to Turks than just about 90% of European populations.

    Though you may think they look “quite a bit different”; I’m willing to bet you’d have a hard time guessing the national origin of anonymous Greeks and Turks.

    More importantly for you; the Greeks are closer to Turks than to the Irish. That’s why I will always get a chuckle when some goofball Irish-American retard takes pride in Alexander’s conquests as if his people had anything to with it. But then again, most of your delusions give me a chuckle anyway, so it’s hardly unique in that respect.

    • LOL: songbird
  5. RSDB says:

    @AP (previous thread, several days ago)

    I don’t think the poor are especially sinful, as a class, nor are they commonly saints. In the US, one common way to be poor, certainly, is to exhibit poor self-control, to be too ready for the drink or too quick to anger or too lustful. That those who are low in society turn to the fiercer satisfactions, and doing so helps keep them poor, while those who are more wealthy can turn to more refined pleasures, is not especially surprising.

    These are, however, not the only sins one can commit, and the refined and the luxurious are not necessarily the better people for it. I seem to recall someone saying something somewhere about camels and eyes of needles?

    Pride, for instance, the first sin and chief of sins, does not seem to be quite so much of a temptation to the poor of America, whereas it is actually celebrated by many of the rich.

    It was after all not the justified man who said I thank thee, God, that I am not like the rest of men, who steal and cheat and commit adultery, or like this publican here; for myself, I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Barbarossa
    , @AP
  6. songbird says:
    @Yahya

    The map doesn’t even have the genetic distance to Ireland on it – I imagine this is because it is zero.

    -Yahya’s theory of mind

    • Replies: @Yahya
  7. @songbird

    The map pretty well reflects the legend that Greeks and Phoenician were half-brothers, Europa being a Phoenician princess and Kadmos (founder of Thebes) her brother.

    Lands colonized by Phoenicians and Carthaginians like Sicily, south of France, Spain are pretty close to Greece. Moreover, the land of Tuscany, once of Etruria, is close to Greece – in antiquity, Etruscans and Carthaginians were allies, but because almost nothing remains from their writings, we don’t know anything about potential claims of kinship, but at least confirms the legend that Etruscans originally came from Asia Minor.

    In Greece I heard some claims that nowadays, “half of Greece are former Albanians”, which would explain proximity to Kosovars [meaning here Albanian Kosovars].

  8. @Another Polish Perspective

    To be true, south of France and Sicily were colonized by Greeks as well.

  9. Yahya says:
    @songbird

    The map doesn’t even have the genetic distance to Ireland on it – I imagine this is because it is zero. -Yahya’s theory of mind

    Your “comebacks” get meeker and stupider by the second. I ought to pick a new antagonist; it’s no fun to beat on a dead sheep. But unfortunately, no-one else here pisses me off as much as you do. Nor for a matter of fact in real life either. You have to be the most obnoxious human being I’ve yet encountered. So you’ll continue receiving insults from me until I find someone else as racist and imbecilic (tall order) as you.

    [MORE]

    I don’t need to rely on your map for genetic distance figures. Unlike you, I’m capable of performing basic research to gather facts and back-up my assertions.

    Population structure within Europe (Novembre J., Johnson T., Bryc K., et al. (2008). Genes mirror geography within Europe. Nature 456: 98-101):

    Notice the quadrant Greece (GR) is located in. Then look at Turkey (TR). Then Ireland (IR).

    Genetic distance from Minoan and Mycenean Greeks:

    Just in case you can’t grasp the chart; the orange/red parts are closer; the green/blue more distant.

    ——————————

    @Another Polish Perspective

    but at least confirms the legend that Etruscans originally came from Asia Minor.

    Well, you’re wrong; because everyone knows that Irish-Americans are the closest group to the Ancient Greeks. Alexander was practically a red-headed Celt. If you look closely at this portrait of him; you can even spot a shamrock somewhere on his armor.

    The map pretty well reflects the legend that Greeks and Phoenician were half-brothers, Europa being a Phoenician princess and Kadmos (founder of Thebes) her brother.

    Phoenicians were Brown Middle Eastern people; thus were totally unrelated to the White European Greeks.

    The claim that Europa originates in Phoenicia is woke retconning of real European history. In reality; the word has its origins in Franco-Celtic traditions. Songbird’s Norman and Celtic ancestors all played a part in developing this mythos; he can tell you more about it.

  10. Wokechoke says:
    @songbird

    Send in Manstein and Guderian!

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @AnonfromTN
  11. Wokechoke says:
    @RSDB

    Calvinist Much.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  12. songbird says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Personally, would consider the explanation as being mostly just down to EEF being more populous in Southern Europe, due to their crops working better (and thus less susceptible to displacement.) But, maybe, Greek colonials traveled in the same directions as EEF did in the neolithic, having much the same crops, and making it even closer?

    There’s also this idea that Bell Beaker traveled up the Atlantic coast from the Med, so maybe that helped a bit, in the case of France?

    Am shocked by how far Sardinia reads. Wonder if it could be a mistake.

  13. songbird says:
    @Yahya

    Am afraid that when you were ruled by the Greeks and then by Turks that was two different overlords, and not one, as you may have hoped.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Yahya
  14. Yahya says:
    @songbird

    Deceit once again.

    1) The first map you linked to shows Turkish-Greek genetic distance (5) as being smaller than Greek-German (6). Now you shift around like a snake; linking to another Tweet.

    2) We were talking about the Irish, not Germans.

    3) Ancient Greeks were further from Germans in antiquity than today. Modern Greeks received 20-25% Slavic admixture following the fall of Byzantium; which pulled them towards Germany (itself a Slavic-mixed nation).

    4) Turks exhibit 12-20% East Eurasian admixture which pulls them away from Greeks. Since East Eurasian DNA is extremely distant from West Eurasian DNA; just a small pulse can dramatically shift Turks on the PCA. But even so, Turks are still closer to Greeks than the Irish (and every other N. European nation). In fact a substantial portion of Turks are in essence Turkified Greeks. Had it not been for East Eurasian admixture; Turks would be almost identical to Greeks genetically.

    5) The Irish have squat-all to do with Ancient Greece.

    So your efforts to “own” fail miserably once again; owing to your general incoherence and lack of honesty.

    • Thanks: Sher Singh
  15. A123 says: • Website

    @Dmitry

    As you point out:

    Meanwhile, a cadre of Deri’s allies arrived at his home, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, and Shas MKs. Several Rabbis also paid a visit to his residence to express their support.

    It is also with noting that 100% of Deri’s portfolio will be transferred to other members of his Shas party. And, Deri himself has voluntarily ceded: (1)

    Deri says it was clear that the two would abide by the court decision as soon as it was made, and appears to contrast that dutiful adherence to the judges’ ruling with opposition activism against the coalition’s planned judicial overhaul. “There was no doubt about that at any stage,” he says, contrasting this to those who talk about the primacy of the rule of law while calling “to breach the public order and to breach Knesset and government decisions.”

    The increasingly desperate, and soon to be less relevant, ultra-left court tried to provoke Netanyahu’s Center-Right coalition to premature action. It did not work. The “Deri Reforms” are still progressing through the Knesset. Once passed, the Knesset will have oversight power to rein in illicit court actions that contravene the Basic Law.
    ____

    Much has been made of demonstrations against the inevitable reforms. However, that whining comes from Leftoid media that want to undermine necessary change. In actuality, the events have been quite modest by local standards: (2)

    The myth of Israel’s ‘mass anti-government protests’ — Despite the media’s lies, the leftist rallies are no big deal.

    While Israel is a small country, getting 100,000 protesters, on any side, to take to the streets is really not very hard. Here are just half a dozen examples: In January 2004, some 120,000 people took part in a protest against Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s disastrous disengagement from Gaza.

    Anti-government rallies of 100,000 or more might be a big deal in some places, but they’re common in Israel.

    Deri will obtain near 100% of what Shas wants. He could even return as a government minister once the Knesset, as a matter of law, is established as supreme above the mislabeled inferior court.

    Enraging lesser judiciary members into quitting cleans up the replacement process. However, slowly grinding them down by making them irrelevant also has a certain poetic justice. Either way the far-left will finally be excised from undeserved & misused authority.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/deri-says-he-abides-by-court-decision-emphasizes-duty-to-remain-shas-chief/

    (2) https://www.jns.org/opinion/the-myth-of-israels-mass-anti-government-protests/

  16. @Yahya

    That data plot reminds of OJ Simpson’s blood splatter pattern expert witness.

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/leetest.html

  17. RSDB says:
    @Wokechoke

    Calvinist None, I hope.

  18. @Yahya

    Yet oddly enough, the Turkish language is more closely related to Korean than it is to any other European or Middle-Eastern language.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  19. songbird says:
    @Wokechoke

    I honestly do think that the probability of the Poles annexing parts of Germany is pretty high in the timeframe of the next half century. They would need to have nukes though.

    @Yahya
    Genetic distance depends on both the SNPs used and the specific individuals in the sample. That it differs very slightly between the two posts I have cited has no bearing on my point, which is that the genetic distance between Greeks and Turks is significant.

    [MORE]

    Am puzzled by why you can’t seem to accept this, even though you are not Turkish. Being open-minded and adaptable, I took it in stride, even though it went against my previous ideas. (I set aside phenotype)

    Had it not been for East Eurasian admixture; Turks would be almost identical to Greeks genetically.

    And there is the rub, and the source of the divisions. It is a pity that Constantinople fell. It would have prevented a lot of division and conflict, if its walls had stood.

    Deceit once again.

    Try to pick a different tagline. That one is already in use.

    Your “comebacks” get meeker

    Well, I’m trying to not be rude. (maybe, try it some time?)

    But suffice it to say that you don’t understand Irishmen, if, as you keep asserting, you think that I would need to have some distant, vicarious connection to other Europeans in order to feel superior. Rather, it would suffice that I am an Irishman.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    , @S
  20. Wokechoke says:

    Zelenskyy requests a thousand tons of Sarin: was heard saying “Gas the Muscovites, Rashist War Now!” as Blinken and Austin sign off on the demand.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
  21. Wokechoke says:
    @Yahya

    The Celts sacked Greece.

  22. Mikhail says: • Website

    Gone but not forgotten –

    https://www.rt.com/russia/567410-monarchy-ukrainian-style-skoropadsky/

    What appear to be the first online available English translation of his edict for an All Russian Federation –

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/22052011-pavlo-skoropadsky-and-the-course-of-russian-ukrainian-relations-analysis/

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  23. Sher Singh says:

    They were ready to have Kyrie Irving lynched for daring to question the vaccine. They love objectively racist people like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. They are unwilling to share any of their wealth or power with non whites and they REALLY aren’t willing to allow non white children into their schools. They are certainly unwilling to intermarry with any non whites who aren’t fully deracinated. A huge part of their emotional attachment to Ukraine is because the Ukrainians are white.

    My entire family are white liberals and I can honestly say that these people really don’t like non whites that much. They might like them in the abstract but it is more a performative/religious thing for them then something that is a meaningful part of their daily life.

    Too much to unpack & anyway, doesn’t matter when they lose social status.
    ie their unwillingness to intermarry disappears as GAE power does.

    Surveys do show them being xenophillic, but they’re dogmatic in other ways (agree here).
    Overall, I just see them as an aging & decaying ‘tribe’ or ideology. :woman_shrugging: :crossed_swords:

    You don’t have to take my word for it, just bash white liberals or advocate a policy that will harm white liberals and watch them chimp out. It’s not about race, it’s about tribe.

    Sure, but bash them enough & they invite you to bed.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  24. @Sher Singh

    when they lose social status.

    They don’t.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  25. Response to @LatW from the other thread –

    No, I do think real love exists, although I don’t think it necessarily has to express itself in marriage or children. Marriage is a social institution, after all, although love is more likely to express itself in children.

    Thanks for your comment. The more I discuss this issue, the more my thoughts are beginning to coalesce around the issue of “contemplation” as one of the major ends of human life, and related to that, the issue of “leisure” as a legitimate goal in its own right, as the Greeks understood it.

    You make a good point that there are a number of professions which can be i
    satisfying, although most jobs in a modern economy aren’t, but I want to put forward the bold notion that contemplation and leisure are ultimately the highest kind of life there is – or at the very least, at least equal to the life of action.

    This startling contention completely reverses the modern scale of values, and yet all classic civilizations thought this way – modernity is the first civilization to think the life of action most valuable.

    So as I clarify my thoughts to myself, maybe I’m on this quixotic quest to restore contemplation and leisure to their rightful place on top of the hierarchy 🙂 Well, there are worse ways to tilt at windmills.

    And I suppose it depends on what you think of modernity – in my view, modernity is intensely nihilistic, and the nihilism of modern times seems to me a huge problem that needs to be overcome. I’m getting the sense you don’t see this issue as acutely as I do.

    And I think our nihilism has some kind of connection to privileging a life of action over contemplation and leisure, because it is through contemplation and leisure that one accesses the “unseen realm” that is the source of meaning in our life.

    You seem to hesitate to agree with me that modern life is characterized by materialism, but nothing seems plainer to me.

    Here is from a discussion of Aristotle on leisure –

    Leisure, unlike mere amusement, involves pleasure, happiness and living blessedly (1338a1). And this is not possible for those who are occupied (insofar as they are occupied) since occupations aim at some necessary end. So there should be education with a view to leisure, i.e, with a view to things done for their own sake. This, then, is the first distinction; insofar as work and leisure are both good, work is extrinsically good, while leisure is intrinsically good. Aristotle elaborates on this first distinction in the Nicomachean Ethics:

    Perhaps that provides the perfect conceptual category to shed light on our previous discussion over what constitutes “work” – I now realize that I had a sense that some forms of “effort” constitutes “work” and some didn’t, but I couldn’t fully articulate to myself why.

    But I like the idea that work is what we do to achieve some end but not for it’s own sake, while leisure activities are what we do for their own sake – activities that are intrinsically satisfying.

    In that sense, it’s easy to see why even the most satisfying professions are inferior to leisure activities, and this helps clarify how the focus on action and work is connected to modern nihilism – if we have lost touch with what is worthwhile for it’s own sake, we have lost touch with the sources of meaning.

    • Replies: @LatW
  26. Response to @AP from the other thread –

    If anything, contemplation (and the leisure needed for it) was more emphasized in the Christian scale of values than in the Greek – it staggers me that you can say otherwise. The Desert Fathers, monasteries, and hermits, were more emphatically leisure and contemplation based institutions than even the ancient Greek philosophical schools which prized leisure (it is modernity, which was the breakup of Christianity, which ushered in the era of “work” – where our life is structured not around things we do for their own sake but things we do for the sake of some end).

    But perhaps the issue can be clarified by recourse to Aristotle’s distinction between work and leisure, described above.

    Of course, there were hard working aristocrats, obviously, but if we are going to contrast the aristocratic attitude towards life with that of the bourgeois, then it is best to sketch their distinctive features, not commonalities.

    It is generally recognized that the advent of the bourgeois represented a new category of person with a new attitude to life, and the bourgeois has been studied extensively for that reason. I hope you’re not gonna deny even this, you madman, AP 🙂

    And the bourgeois attitude to life – which is coterminous with the advent of modernity – is that life should be structured around “work”, that is, activities for some end, rather than activities we do for their own sake.

    Now, certainly the aristocratic life contained “work” in this sense too, but being much freer from the burdens of needing to make a living, there was much more emphasis on intrinsically satisfying activities. In addition, being at the summit – like God – engendered a value system which prized effortless perfection, not striving, which implies lack. Perfection does not strive. Of course, this attitude was often just a stylish veneer, and imperfectly realized, but it was a genuine aristocratic conceit to present themselves as “perfect” (this conceit was very pronounced in China, which led to some very tragic consequences for them when they encountered the West.). So there was this “anti-striver” culture.

    As for the less salubrious and more sordid aspects of aristocratic life that I sketched in my other comment, there is simply too much documentary evidence for even you to pretend otherwise – although considering your complete evisceration of Christianity, I probably shouldn’t set any boundaries on what you’re prepared to deny 🙂

    I’d recommend starting by picking up Jacob Burckhardts book on the Italian Renaissance.

    Back to the question of nihilism, it’s becoming clearer why the advent of the bourgeois coincided with the rise in nihilism – “work” is a focus on building up the physical world – APs hospitals, schools, factories, cities, and general “complex” civilization – i.e, it is activity with an end in view, however the sources of meaning in human life are actions that are intrinsically worthwhile and done for no other end.

    The purest expression of this would be contemplation and the life of leisure that implies, but going out to nature, hiking, music, art, poetry, dancing, philosophy (perhaps some kinds), literature, would be included.

    Of course AP, I’d agree with you that building up the physical world has some value, but when you make that the primary focus of life – as you do, of course – you court nihilism.

    As I said in the other thread, AP, you imagine yourself a positive force in the world, but you are in fact a dark agent of entropy and an agent of the modern crisis of meaning 🙂

    • Replies: @AP
  27. A123 says: • Website

    Response to APP from OT206:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-206/#comment-5775006

    arguments are based on EU or ECHR jurisprudence. It is a much bigger problem in Germany than in Poland actually, where there is absolutely no deference to international law INSIDE Germany: Bundesverfassungsgericht has an unofficial doctrine of the primacy of the German law over ECHR or EU law.

    A rather good point about an area where the EU fails miserably.

    The Union is supposed to be a collection of sovereign equals. Thus, it should be clear that all nations (not just Germany) have national courts as a check on EU over reach. Somehow, this necessity has been lost in many nations. Even after Brexit, the UK is still trying to escape this trap.

    constitutional courts can often nullify a law (such is a case in Poland, Germany and Israel at least) if they deem it “unconstitutional”, effectively resulting by the rule of judges: it is sometimes called “judical activism”. That is often a matter of judges fancy or political stance, since it is easy to find anything within the very broad statements of constitution.

    Israel has unique problems.

    The current “temporary” judicial structure was set up to last until a full Constitution was established. However, that never happened. Therefore, the temporary arrangement has lasted decades.

    While allowing judges to select their replacements seemed reasonable in a temporary body, it creates catastrophic problem for the long term. The far-left picked the original judges, who then picked additional left judges. The whole body no longer represents anything even vaguely resembling the people of Israel. It has become an antique.

    The current reforms establish Knesset oversight power to rein in poor decisions. And, it will create a new selection process for filling vacancies. The court will eventually be dragged kicking and screaming back to concepts like judicial restraint.

    Moreover, those judges are not democratically elected, so even if you win elections, judges can hamper your agenda.

    I concur.

    We saw this problem in the U.S. a few years ago. Delusional #NeverTrump extremists were irrationally angry at Trump for being hampered by SCOTUS.

    The solution is winning multiple election cycles in both the Presidency and the Senate so that over time MAGA judges begin to fill the judiciary. Declaring total surrender to run a NeoCon, anti-MAGA candidate is foolish. Yet, some short sighted individuals are set on this path to 100% certain failure.

    1) a lot of young people emigrated to EU and will probably not come back – you could say this prepared way to emigration to Poland of Ukrainians (and their “work” visas did not allow for Schengen travel, so they were “encouraged” to stay in Poland too). The initial process of mass emigration FROM Poland was a kind of grooming Poland for accepting immigration in this way.

    Intra-EU migration wrecked family formation, which had a knock on impact on child birth rates. Poland was not the only donor nation. Others were also drained. Acquiring a reasonable number of Christian new comers that can assimilate is the best response as long as Schengen exists.

    Internal migration also wrecked earning power of native citizens in the recipient nations. The idea of mass relocation for work empowers MegaCorporations at the expense of the people. Employment related Schengen needs to end.

    Yet another reason why the EU needs to be dissolved.

    PEACE 😇

  28. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Euros have been losing status since 9/11
    Losses in Afghanistan, BLM, Obama, India-China GDP rise

    Even Trump’s idiocy destroys the ideal of White male leadership
    White liberals can’t escape the destruction of whiteness they’ve orchestrated

    By whiteness I mean – Germano-Latin Chauvinism
    https://akarlin.com/struggle-europe-mankind/

    Sure, individually liberal signaling doesn’t lower status but,
    The Taliban is making fun of the West on twitter while Trump’s banned

    Kadyrov is winning accolades from Russians he ethnically cleansed in the 90s

    The wokes correctly describe reality more so than right-wing nationalists
    Doesn’t mean you have to agree with their ideals

    2c

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rising_Tide_of_Color_Against_White_World-Supremacy

    Stoddard was an American Nordicist & already wrote about this in 1920s

  29. @A123

    Poland was not the only donor nation. Others were also drained. Acquiring a reasonable number of Christian new comers that can assimilate is the best response as long as Schengen exists.

    I think Poland and Romania were drained the most. Surprisingly, the Czechs and Hungarians weren’t so eager to emigrate. I once talked about this with Czechs, and the answers were like “You know, we Czechs do not like travel far away and we like our country”. They weren’t “economy is great in Czechia”. So this has something to do with cultural climate too, like constantly depicting Poland as faulty, inefficient country in the need of reform just before Polish accession to EU. Poles who who emigrated with buying real estate abroad sometimes regret it now, being surprised how fast Poland has been changing – so they probably expected that Poland would not change, which was true for long time for Polish emigrants from communist Poland, of course.

    Pushing mainly Ukrainians into Poland (but not providing repatriation programs for Polish minority in the East, or trying to bring back Poles from the West) is not entirely good – there is a sea of blood between us. By their mass immigration, the memory of that troubled past can be always recreated: this is a potential danger. It is like pushing upon you this Christian LOVE FOR YOUR ENEMEY, BUT ONLY FOR YOUR ENEMY. This is a bit twisted, I would say.

    • Replies: @A123
  30. @Sher Singh

    True power is economic and financial. Marx was right about that. Basis and superstructure. I will know they are losing power when I will see them begging in the streets. Not losing my breath waiting though.

    This guy barely scratched the surface. It was a mandatory watching I imposed the kids when they reached 14 years old. The only change in the last decade was an even more marked financial power concentration and even more marked decoupling of the 0.1% from the rest of us. Everything else is woodoo doll and needle type of thing. Distractions. Not really important. That is why we can discuss it freely here. Tell me more about Jats and their continuous connections to the Harappan civilization please !

    🙂

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    , @S
    , @S
  31. songbird says:

    Sea of Azov has a 4 km long outlet.

    Three Gorges Dam is 2.2 km long. Cost about $37 billion, or if you don’t count power gen and pop resettlement about $18.4 billion.

  32. @A123

    The Union is supposed to be a collection of sovereign equals. Thus, it should be clear that all nations (not just Germany) have national courts as a check on EU over reach. Somehow, this necessity has been lost in many nations. Even after Brexit, the UK is still trying to escape this trap.

    I don’t know man… This is elite problem – you will never see a normal person having any personal experience with this, like saying “I lost because the court ignored our national laws in favour of ECHR jurisprudence”. It never happens. The media are constantly aroused by this, so you think it is real, but really it isn’t.
    A normal person will have most likely the opposite problem – that ECHR jurisprudence, which is on his side, will be ignored. Such people you will surely meet. In case of Germany, which presents itself as ultra-European this is especially “in your face” arrogance. BTW, Germany respects ECHR refugee-jurisprudence, but other than that – not so much.

    From my experience with courts, the civil law legal rule of “free assessments of evidence and proof” is a source of many evils. Because of it, you are actually at judge’s grace, like in feudalism. How often I have heard in court reports “Our evidence has not been taken into account” etc. So evil is that, that I would even replace it with stare decisis of common law.

    • Replies: @A123
  33. @Wokechoke

    Germans did, about 80 years ago. We all know how it ended for Germany.

  34. A123 says: • Website
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I think Poland and Romania were drained the most.

    I believe the Baltics were also hammered. While the total count may be lower, the % was high.

    It is like pushing upon you this Christian LOVE FOR YOUR ENEMY, BUT ONLY FOR YOUR ENEMY. This is a bit twisted, I would say.

    It is twisted, and 100% non-Christian.

    Pope Muhammad Francis of Islam is an enemy of Jesus Christ. The German “Welcome Rape-ugees” churches are also failed institutions. There are others.

    The disconnect between Jesus and supposedly Christian churches is indeed troubling.

    PEACE 😇

  35. Iraqi Information Minister reviews
    One Nation Under Blackmail
    Whitney Webb
    Trine Day; 2022
    2 volumes; 532pp + 418pp

    This is everything one needs to know in order to make sense of the Jeffrey Epstein Ghislaine Maxwell caper according to independent journalist Whitney Webb. It’s worth reading most of it although reading every line cover to cover would be an enormous task and I did not do that. Tactical skimming is maybe a requirement.

    If you are a politics nerd there might be nothing new here at all. She didn’t wear out any shoes running around collecting first hand accounts and she does not identify any previously unknown whistleblowers. What she has done is review as much published information as possible and I definitely learned many things which seem to be obscure. Reliability of these is debatable.

    In descending order of importance.

    1. The Iran Contra Arms Hostages scandal of the 1980’s is a misnomer. It would be far more accurate to call that CIA Arms Cocaine Money Laundering Sex Traffic Loose End that somehow partly made it into the public. William Casey and Oliver North were merely high level participants and by no means the ones calling the shots. Those guys know who they are but remain unnamed. Other high level participants with large roles were Robert Maxwell and Adnan Koshogghi and Robert Keith Gray. The last guy who I had never heard of is the man on the cover with Casey and Cohn that nobody recognizes. This guy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Keith_Gray

    The most nefarious item on that page is that Gray was a closeted homo.

    2. The Chinese money guys that subsidize the Clintons are small arms manufacturers. They made their fortune selling AK47’s and hand grenades and bullets to both sides during the massive and long Iraq Iran war. Webb opines that the genesis of the Chinese manufacturing complex that dominates today’s world economy was precisely this episode. These Chinese arms were the big payload for the Casey-North-Maxwell-Koshogghi-Gray project and the cocaine and sex slaves were merely side projects. If your interest and exposure to this resembles my own, your eyes will glaze over long before you get to the end of the evidence Webb provides for this angle of her presentation. This is all part of the 500 pages of required background even before we arrive to the arrival of Jeffrey Epstein to the insides of this very long story.

    3. Leslie Wexner is the successor to Meyer Lansky. He is the finance guy who manages the Mob profits from drugs, gambling, labor union racketeering, government fraud, sex slaves, &c. By this point he is probably as rich as Gates and Buffett put together. He is the main Jew Israel Mossad backer on planet earth.

    4. Air America which rose to notoriety flying heroin from Thailand to North America has been renamed three or four times already. It is now operated out of Leslie Wexner’s private Akron airport hangers. Here is the source of the fascination Epstein and aviation. They made as much money smuggling Chinese machine guns and ammo as they ever made on coke.

    5. The way these guys stay out of jail and beyond the reach of the law is they own the law. Specifically a large percentage of top law enforcement officials are perverts, thieves, murderers, blackmailers, and more and the evidence of this is in video, audio, and other documentation in the possession of all the major global powers and their spy agencies. This practice was perfected by Meyer Lansky, Roy Cohn, and J. Edgar Hoover whose most important control files were on one another. This is the secret society with the most power of all.

    5b. Roy Cohn was somewhere between Donald Trump’s mentor and soul mate.

    6. Jeff Epstein is merely one more (er, 5 or 6 more) chapter in this depressing saga. His fatal flaw was the tabloids loved publicizing photos of him and his sexy ornaments and he didn’t take sufficient precautions to discourage this. Maybe the glamor attraction provided him with essential business assets and the problem had no work-around

    I could go on and on and on like Whitney Webb did but I will make some short meta commentary.

    The best thing to be said for this book is that immediately after finishing with volume 1 I ordered volume 2 and it went on the top of the To-Read-Pile the moment it was delivered. Trine Day is not a first tier publishing company and it shows that this book was not professionally edited.

    What is in there that should not be: ~100 pages on the PROMIS software story. Anybody who has ever worked on code for a year or more knows the claims bandied about here are impossible.

    What is not in there that should be: Whitney Webb is very smart but appears to not understand the concepts of sin and human weakness. Decent and honest people can do really horrible things when the lists compromising circumstances pile up and this is bad fortune when you juxtapose with the otherwise 99.99% of their lives. Not everything is rotten to the core and we are not all doomed. Else how are any of us still here at all?

    At least she isn’t partisan. Equal venom at Bushes and Clintons. : )

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool, S
  36. Finn says:
    @Yahya

    Were not the Gaels settlers or Asia minor and Greece? Ala Galatians?

    • Replies: @Yahya
    , @Yevardian
  37. A123 says: • Website
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I don’t know man… This is elite problem – you will never see a normal person having any personal experience with this, like saying “I lost because the court ignored our national laws in favour of ECHR jurisprudence”.

    I seem to recall the ECHR sanctioning a woman for telling the truth — Muhammad raped Aisha when she was 9. Though that may have been a different European court. The ECHR intervened to stop the UK’s “Stay in Africa” plan. This places huge number of Brits at risk of violent crime.

    Yes. Few individuals make it before high courts. However, their judicial action (and inaction) has huge consequences on many individuals. For example, tens of millions of weapons will made theoretically illegal if SCOTUS does not intervene on the subject of “wrist braces”.

    PEACE 😇

  38. @Emil Nikola Richard

    Whitney Webb is wonderful.

    Her Covid articles on Last American Vagabond and UR were fascinating.

    https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/category/whitney-webb/

    https://www.unz.com/author/whitney-webb/

    Of course, being a journalist, she often makes claims that no molecular biologist would do. Nevertheless, her writing is a worthy read.

    I wish her to “live long and prosper”, but don’t really count on it too much.

    She’s probably an unwilling member of the Suicide Squad by now.

    Emil, you realize that it is a major thought-crime to read these books?

    Someone should scan them and put the PDFs online.

    🙂

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  39. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    You don’t carry weapons & you eat beef.
    You’re a savage beneath a Dalit, and I’m not gonna take nor answer you seriously.

    When you man up, and display conduct fitting a human we can discuss Dharma.


    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  40. @A123

    My view of ECHR is more positive than negative, and I say that after reading many ECHR decisions. Most of ECHR non-refugee decisions are sound.
    This court is hugely popular in Europe – so much that its own popularity questions its own efficiency. This huge popularity is a testimony to the fact that basic rights are often endangered in Europe. West & North Europe suffers from paternalism of elites which can twist law itself, whereas East Europe often is simply not very well law-abiding, and the South Europe simply doesn’t care (the longest time of court proceedings in Europe, and “losing” documents).
    The fact that this popularity somehow isn’t argument for ECHR enlargement but for making access to it more difficult says all about European elites.

    Yes. Few individuals make it before high courts.

    The majority that does not make to high court isn’t in any way less important than those who made it. Once again, selective enforcement of law by high courts is a testimony to the fact that they are a tool of elites.
    Well, when I read a book on ECHR jurisprudence I was surprised by a surprising number of royals who brought their case there – a former king of Greece, this German princess, that German princess…(there were many kingdoms in Reich). Well, I guess that as always, aristocracy and royals get a privileged access to high courts ;(

  41. @Sher Singh

    Well, at least we agree about not taking each other seriously.

    🙂

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  42. S says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    True power is economic and financial…I will know they are losing power when I will see them begging in the streets. Not losing my breath waiting though.

    This guy barely scratched the surface…The only change in the last decade was an even more marked financial power concentration and even more marked decoupling of the 0.1% from the rest of us.

    I agree with you. Despite appearances otherwise at times, they in reality go from strength to strength.

  43. @Another Polish Perspective

    If you ask me, they could reform ECHR by taking refugees cases out of it. ECHR was thought as the court for Europeans and there could be a separate court like “Refugees Appeal Tribunal of Council of Europe”. Since the refugee cases often concern Article 2, Right to Life, then tend to clog the temporary protection ECHR pipeline, keeping non-2.Article petitioners (who tend to be European citizens) from getting temporary protection.

  44. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Keep polishing my horse’s dick Slav.
    The closest Germans & Slaves come to Aryans is serving them.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  45. AP says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    If anything, contemplation (and the leisure needed for it) was more emphasized in the Christian scale of values than in the Greek

    Utter nonsense. You are aping the sort of anti-Christian propaganda told by Bolsheviks or those like them. Remember when I posted the parable for you, about returning God’s gifts rather than doing nothing with them? To quote the Orthodox aristocrat Berdyaev, who despises bourgeois such as you (I think he was a bit unfair towards them):

    “ The Greco-Roman civilization, aristocratic in its very principles, despised work and looked upon it as the portion of the slaves; it is only since Christianity, since the Gospel, that work and those who do it have been sanctified. Christ l himself worked: “The labourer is worthy of his hire.” The parables concerning the talents and the vineyard speak of human labour, of human activity, of human creative gifts: man must return his talents multiplied to God (Matt, xxv, 14-30; xxi, 28-31). The activity of man must be fruitful; he is told to till the soil; he must return increased all that he has received. Nowhere does the Gospel justify passivity. Christianity established the dignity of every man, ‘fashioned in God’s image and after his likeness,’ and it opens an endless vista of perfection, a perfection not only of individuals but of social meaning. Christianity affirms that man is a spiritual being, and spirit is ever active; that is the definition of spirit. Matter is passive and inert. A spiritual being cannot but strive towards eternity, perfection, the fullness of life, and such a striving implies movement, dynamic development, activity.”

    The Desert Fathers, monasteries, and hermits, were more emphatically leisure and contemplation

    They worked hard in active prayer and other activities. Have you ever visited a Christian monastery? And of course in addition to praying they were building hospitals, transcribing books (incredibly time-consuming activity), tilling soil, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, etc. And in line with the Christian view of the world they were also focused on ways of harnessing the natural world through tinkering with a perpetual motion machine, alchemical experiments, etc. The scientific method came from devout Churchmen.

    And the bourgeois attitude to life – which is coterminous with the advent of modernity – is that life should be structured around “work”, that is, activities for some end, rather than activities we do for their own sake

    Here you are correct. The problem is that you, who are thoroughly bourgeois, believes that work is something that can only be done for some end. That nobody can possibly do work for its own sake or for anything other than raw material benefit (such as love, or inner sense of honor and duty). So you reject work, but have failed to escape your bourgeois nature.

    A bourgeois, like you, who doesn’t work in still a bourgeois, he’s just a self-indulgent and lazy one.

    So you try to deny your bourgeois nature by choosing not to work, and to live off others’ labor without laboring yourself. You engage in self-indulgence in nature, an act of consumption, and dare to compare yourself to ancient monks, an example of the status-seeking and striving that you as a bourgeois cannot escape. And arrogance.

    I’d recommend starting by picking up Jacob Burckhardts book on the Italian Renaissance

    Unlike you I don’t need books to know about aristocratic values and lifestyle.

    APs hospitals, schools, factories, cities, and general “complex” civilization – i.e, it is activity with an end in view

    It is the goal-directed and forward-focused nature of Christianity that inspires the need for development and improvement. It is what differentiates Christendom from other civilisations and explains it’s spectacular rise in this world.

    You are really lost in your materialism if you think that there is nothing in the building of hospitals and schools, creation of sanitary sewer systems, healing of the sick, technological inventions to improve all these things, other than a wish to get rich or to get status. I guess it’s a confession that if you did these things this is what would have motivated you. What emptiness and poverty.

    The purest expression of this would be contemplation and the life of leisure that implies, but going out to nature, hiking, music, art, poetry, dancing, philosophy (perhaps some kinds), literature

    You are the type of bourgeois who finds meaning in consumption rather than production. Which makes you a worse kind of bourgeois.

    Of course AP, I’d agree with you that building up the physical world has some value, but when you make that the primary focus of life

    What you fail to understand is that the meaning behind building up the physical world is what matters when determining whether or not someone is bourgeois. But that even if they are – the nice thing about the capitalist system is that within it such people’s bad instincts (striving, greed) are harnessed and used for good ends. Whereas otherwise such sins (which are universal) are not. Better for a greedy person to express his greed by working harder and producing something useful, and using the money he makes to buy someone’s attention than to express his greed by raiding a neighbor’s hut and taking his livestock and women. Or snitching on his neighbor to get him sent to a gulag and taking his apartment.

  46. Absolutely. That’s normal and should be expected. Anyone who would have read Giovanni Arrighi would easily understand this.

    [MORE]

    Gramsci’s concept of hegemony is applied to interstate relations to account for both the invariance and the evolution of the modern world-system from its beginnings in Late-Medieval Europe to our days. It is argued that what made the United Provinces, the United Kingdom, and the United States hegemonic in their respective “worlds” was not their military might or superior command over scarce resources as such, but their predispositions and capabilities to use either or both to solve the problems over which system-wide conflicts raged. The changes in the nature of these problems and, therefore, in the conditions of the rise and decline of world hegemonies are explored, and some provisional hypotheses concerning the future of the modern world-system are advanced.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/40241160

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    , @S
  47. @Sher Singh

    Well, as I wrote previously, I don’t take you seriously and therefore it is impossible for you to insult me.

    All you are showing by writing these insanities, is that your moral standards are very low despite all your grandstanding posts about you being a Kshatryia.

    Don’t you think that by coming accross as somewhat unhinged, you would lower UR readers respect towards the Khalsa ?

    What would your beloved Gurus think of you writing vulgarity for everyone to read on a public forum ?

    😉

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  48. @Ivashka the fool

    Should have been a reply to the comment # 43 by S.

  49. @Emil Nikola Richard

    THIS is the way a comment should be written; Well said, well done.

    Thank you!!!

    Would that all commenters were so well written . . .

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  50. A123 says: • Website

    Good news for team MAGA today: (1)

     

    This should quell the desperate wailing & clamoring for a neocon challenge to Trump. Sadly, it will probably take longer to quash the folly.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-desantis-lead-biden-hypothetical-2024-matchup-poll

  51. Yahya says:
    @Finn

    Were not the Gaels settlers or Asia minor and Greece? Ala Galatians?

    Is this sentence supposed to be encrypted so that no-one here can understand it?

    Your commenting history goes back 16 years; yet you only comment once every blue moon. A deep lurker.

    Interesting.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
  52. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    The Khalsa is the physical form of the Guru.
    I’m not really arguing just being straight forward.

    You’re trying to steal my heritage because you lack your own.

    Your filthy mouth even mentioning the Guru is an insult.

    Russia was already partitioned in 1991 & let’s hope the remainder are free’d from the yoke of filth like you।।

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  53. Yahya says:
    @songbird

    which is that the genetic distance between Greeks and Turks is significant.

    Not as significant as between Greeks and Irish though.

    Doesn’t stop you from thinking Alexander was one of yours.

    ut suffice it to say that you don’t understand Irishmen, if, as you keep asserting, you think that I would need to have some distant, vicarious connection to other Europeans in order to feel superior. Rather, it would suffice that I am an Irishman.

    Lol, you only ever mention your Irish heritage once every blue moon. It took me a whole year to find out about your Irish background. I bet many people here would not have known either, had I not called you a Celtic sack of shit some time ago.

    From how possessive you seem about Germany, opining constantly on their internal politics as if you were one of them, I thought you may actually be German. But no, it turns out you don’t have single ounce of German blood in you. You just LARP from your mother’s basement somewhere in New England.

    I remember a comical comment you made once, in the very early days, saying “It gets awfully tiresome, when for example you’re being called “white British” by colonists.”

    That’s when I knew you were a delusional nut. Your comments since then have only reinforced my impression.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    , @songbird
  54. Sher Singh says:
    @Yahya

    Wait is he seriously claiming Alexander?
    @songbird I thought that was a troll.

    American whites and blacks claim everyone’s history tbh.
    There’s an Afro & Euro centric Kang tale about everything.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Yahya
  55. Wokechoke says:
    @AP

    while 1984 is a pseudonymous Eton educated, Imperial Policeman and MI6 agent, western author fantasizing about totalitarian futures; Master and Margerita is a former Imperial Russian Army Officer, Mikhail Bulgakov telling you what it was like to be an author during a totalitarian singularity. What Western men read about as fiction, these people IRL it.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  56. @RSDB

    I’ve often reflected how strange it is that the 7 deadly sins are basically the motive virtues of the modern world. Lust, greed, pride, etc. are all deified.

    I suppose it’s not really surprising that a society that elevates such characteristics would have an increasing number of failures, represented by the homeless and the addicted. In some cases anyhow they may be seen as the result of what happens when some of these vices fully take control of a life. The rich may very often be an example of the same vices harnessed to a self-serving extent.

    This isn’t to say that I dismiss the homeless as bad people. In many cases they are hapless victims of a sick and twisted society which doesn’t even possess the sense to have moral standards and safeguards for those who may not have sharp enough wits to discern their own.

    Any way you look at it, I think it’s impossible for these cases of human failure to be seen as anything but an unflattering mirror on the broken society that creates and perpetuates such cases.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  57. @AP

    I thought I mentioned several times already that work to secure a modest living is not what I’m condemning. And I guess there’s little point in repeating that Jesus said we should give up wealth – much less work to acquire it – and not store up our treasures in this world, and that we should not be excessively preoccupied with securing food or shelter. As Dmitry said, how many times can you repeat “but you’re eating chocolate” to someone eating chocolate who insists he isn’t 🙂

    I also note that you didn’t respond to my pointing out that the highest form of prayer in the Heyschast tradition is contemplation, which is emptying the mind and doing nothing. I guess that’s just a Bolshevik slur.

    But it’s interesting that you are defending Christianity from the “slur” of not focusing on material ends – like the Bolsheviks, you accept that materialism is the yardstick of value. What a thorough modern man you are 🙂

    One of the things that irks me about political discussions these days is that all sides, left and right, argue from the same set of shared assumptions and values. It’s just rearranging pieces on a chessboard. Unz for instance is just basically a reverse image of Woke with the pieces arranged differently. We have not yet reached the stage where people question inherited assumptions and received values – but when that happens, you enter a period of true religious ferment. We are badly in need of a new Axial Age.

    But you are funny – so activity that we do for its own sake and not for some other end – like appreciating the beauty of nature – is an act of “consumption”, and of little worth, because it isn’t producing anything.

    The funny thing is, even within the capitalist paradigm whose terms you are employing, the purpose of work is so that one can consume 🙂

    The true ends of life even within the capitalist system is consumption and not productive work, which is merely a means to that end – of course, since it’s capitalism, it conception of consumption can only be in terms of material things, but even it preserves a dim echo of the correct value-hierarchy between work and consumption. We till the soil so we can eat food – not just so we can till.

    So let’s just say then I’m a defender of “consumption” as being primary, and the means to consumption secondary 🙂

    But somehow, our civilization has lost sight of that relationship. I wonder how we get like this.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    , @AP
  58. @Yahya

    He isn’t being cryptic at all

    “In 278 B.C., a group of Celtic immigrants crossed from the Balkans into Anatolia, or present-day Turkey. The long journey to the Bosporus from their European homeland had taken these wandering Celts, known as Galatians, through Hellenized states, where they settled temporarily as allies.”

  59. S says:
    @songbird

    Am curious, Songbird, are you familiar with the 1964 film Girl With Green Eyes?

    While the plot may be a bit lacking, something of what in Ireland might be seen as a ‘D4’ outlook towards Ireland and the Irish people I suppose, I find the many unrehearsed (relatively speaking) street and crowd scenes of interest as they are a snap-shot of Dublin at that time.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_with_Green_Eyes

    [MORE]

  60. @Sher Singh

    You’re trying to steal my heritage because you lack your own.

    Well, that’s just your insecurity showing up here. Nobody’s stealing anything from anyone by discussing one’s ancestry. I discussed mine, and you just jumped in for no reason other than your personal projections.

    I know my ancestry and my heritage, with which I am satisfied and which I am proud of. I wish you sincerely that one day you also do get to this point, when you don’t feel the need to write obscenities on teh internets to defend the valor of your people.

    Regarding partition of RusFed, that might happen for sure, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject that we discussed and which triggered your unbalanced replies.

    You seem to wrongly think that there’s a transition in power and status ongoing between your White overlords of days past and your minority group. This is not the case. You and other Brown people are simply being played and used as a tool in the elite social warfare against the middle class White sheeple as per Kalergi plan.

    The elite are well above the fray and they pull the strings. They are unreachable for both of us and they are the ones taking the kind of decisions that might lead to RusFed partition or eventual creation of the Khalistan.

    This being said, be well and don’t forget to take your pills…

    🙂

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  61. I keep on wondering what is going on with immunity since Covid/ lockdowns. My own family and pretty much everyone else I know or talk to is sick far more often than pre-Covid. We used to get a cold or bug 2-3 times a year and now it seems like they just pile on top of one another. I’d say one of us feel some level of yuck more often than we are all feeling good. It’s never major, but it’s really irritating.

    It’s a giant change in a very short space, and doctors that I’ve talked to are saying that they seem to be seeing the same dynamic.

    I’ve been noticing this for a good year and a half and I attributed it to our immune systems being attenuated from lack of routine exposure to various pathogens. We and the people around us never really locked down, so I was rather surprised to be so affected.

    However, after 18 months with no noticeable change in the dynamic I’m seriously starting to wonder what else is going on and what the cumulative effects are. Has Covid just fundamentally weakened immune systems in a sustained way, or is more going on? If we do have relatively weakened immune systems going forward what can effectively be done to build them back up in a sustainable way? If our immune systems are doing a noticeably poorer job keeping pathogens from getting to a symptomatic level what implications does that have for other functions of the immune system such as eliminating cancer cells before they take hold?

    Any thoughts?

  62. @S

    I saw it. Very nice movie, and a picture of charming femininity you won’t meet anymore nowadays.

    • Thanks: S
    • Replies: @Mikel
  63. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    You’re an atheist & only an atheist can be a slave.
    Aryas are neither brown nor white keep your slave name to yourself

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  64. @Barbarossa

    Yes I have noticed it as well.

    Have you had Covid and/or have you been vaxed ?

    My personal health took a major dive after having had a very mild Covid in the early days of the pandemic.

    I got vaxed twice under the peer pressure from my elderly father who had friends and associates die after being Covid infected and was very much insecure about catching the Corona.

    Each time I received the vaccine, I had an immune downdrop.

    Then I had Covid again, an even milder one, and my immunity again took a long time to come back to an acceptable level.

    I am feeling tired much often and have a few symptoms that I’ve read about in the “long Covid” list.

    I believe that it has to do with the depletion of some immune cells’ subtype(s) due to either the toxic spike protein activity and or the antibody dependent enhancement by subsequent Covid infections.

    Quite an unpleasant state I must admit.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    , @Wokechoke
  65. @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    But somehow, our civilization has lost sight of that relationship. I wonder how we get like this.

    A tangential thought that I often come back to…in the book of Genesis God creates things “according to their nature”. This seems to signify something much deeper than just a purpose or use; something individual and intimate to each creature. So, cows are made to live by their cow nature, to eat grass, suckle their calves and roam in herds, etc. This can be articulated for any natural creature or feature. Humans have their own nature which is more unique. We take an active part in the creative function of God by our abilities to imagine and bring those ideas into physical form.

    Working in concert with the Divine Nature we can bring great things into being, but by disregarding those restraints we pervert the nature of the physical world and ourselves. So, we have feedlots for cattle or confinement pens for pigs which entirely deny them any expression of their rightful cow or pig nature. We have office buildings, porn sites, and metaverses which deny our essential human nature and needs.

    We relentlessly compartmentalize reality when it is in reality an inseparable whole. When we compartmentalize and isolate we take everything out of proper context. Then it becomes easy to twist things and deny their essential nature. A cow or a pig becomes nothing more than a protein production unit to be rendered salable for the fewest possible dollars invested. The economic concern, taken in isolation, becomes elevated to the only valid criteria to judge the value of things.

    I’m sure that the above is nothing that either you or AP hasn’t considered before, but perhaps either of you will find it stated in a different enough way to provide some value to the discussion.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    , @AP
  66. A123 says: • Website
    @Barbarossa

    I keep on wondering what is going on with immunity since Covid/ lockdowns. My own family and pretty much everyone else I know or talk to is sick far more often than pre-Covid.

    Two factors immediately spring to mind.

    -1- Backlog — Things that would have been spread 12-24 months ago lingered in smaller more isolated groups. As normal interaction resumed, pockets of bugs that previously would have spread and burned out are becoming contagious in the larger pool. In a bizarre way, we were actually healthier to during the madness.

    Also, routine preventive care was diminished. There are more minor issues being identified that can be worked on.

    -2- Willingness to Report — Five years ago minor ailments would not have sprung to mind as a topic of conversation. Now, it is much more likely to come up. Thus, the perceived count may be higher than the actual increase in events.
    ___

    As a pure blood, I have noticed no uptick in communicable disease.

    PEACE 😇

  67. @Sher Singh

    I am not an Atheist.

    Have no clue where you got this idea from. Anyone who read my comments on this forum would easily understand that I have a belief system. The fact that it doesn’t match yours doesn’t mean that yours is right or mine is wrong. Neither does it mean the opposite.

    But you know that already.

    You just can’t quite posturing online because it feeds your ego.

    Is it the way a grown man like you truly should behave?

    Is this the way of a warrior ?

    🙂

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  68. @Barbarossa

    One of the possible explanations, mine bolding:

    The SARS-CoV-2 infection causes severe immune disruption. However, it is unclear if disrupted immune regulation still exists and pertains in recovered COVID-19 patients. In our study, we have characterized the immune phenotype of B cells from 15 recovered COVID-19 patients, and found that healthy controls and recovered patients had similar B-cell populations before and after BCR stimulation, but the frequencies of PBC in patients were significantly increased when compared to healthy controls before stimulation. However, the percentage of unswitched memory B cells was decreased in recovered patients but not changed in healthy controls upon BCR stimulation. Interestingly, we found that CD19 expression was significantly reduced in almost all the B-cell subsets in recovered patients. Moreover, the BCR signaling and early B-cell response were disrupted upon BCR stimulation. Mechanistically, we found that the reduced CD19 expression was caused by the dysregulation of cell metabolism. In conclusion, we found that SARS-CoV-2 infection causes immunodeficiency in recovered patients by downregulating CD19 expression in B cells via enhancing B-cell metabolism, which may provide a new intervention target to cure COVID-19.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-021-00749-3

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
  69. @Barbarossa

    Yes, Taoism emphasizes a similar idea that each species has been created to fulfill its own inner nature and shouldn’t deviate from it.

    I’d agree with you working with nature and God to create yields the most humanly satisfying kind of society – rather than the modern notion that our job is to utterly subdue and dominate nature and create ever more complex systems.

    It seems to me I’m arguing for this more modest approach, while AP is arguing for ever more complex systems and humanity dominating nature. The desire for ever greater complexity and dominance seems to be the desire to secure the means to existence – perfectly healthy in limited doses – run amok and metastasize like a cancer.

    I would also say that our human nature reaches its highest level of fulfillment when we do things that have intrinsic value and are not means to some other end – like appreciate nature, recite poetry, listen to music, appreciate literature, contemplate God, or create beauty. This should be the central element in our lives.

    Working to secure the means to existence, while a necessary part of our life and while it can even be satisfying if the right kind of work, isn’t the essence of human life, but it’s adjunct.

    But in modern civilization, the adjunct has somehow taken on the central role. If you step back and really look at it, it’s downright weird that this could have happened.

  70. S says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    It is argued that what made the United Provinces, the United Kingdom, and the United States hegemonic in their respective “worlds” was not their military might or superior command over scarce resources as such, but their predispositions and capabilities to use either or both to solve the problems over which system-wide conflicts raged.

    Thanks for the intriguing excerpt and link.

    In regards to the linked paper’s title, The Three Hegemonies of Historical Capitalism, I’m reminded of how I once heard the United Provinces and the United States tellingly referred to as ‘commercial republics’.

    All things considered, I suppose the United Kingdom could be said to be an honorary commercial republic. 🙂

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  71. songbird says:
    @Yahya

    Doesn’t stop you from thinking Alexander was one of yours.

    Not sure that you understand your own thoughts, let alone those of others. My honest evaluation is that you have consistently demonstrated bad theory of mind, perhaps due to a lack of ability to sympathize – in a single word, narcissism.

    [MORE]

    One of your most recent examples:

    From how possessive you seem about Germany, opining constantly on their internal politics as if you were one of them, I thought you may actually be German. But no, it turns out you don’t have single ounce of German blood in you.

    Maybe, I sympathize with Germans because I have known a lot of them and liked them? But you, with your fragile ego (such as all narcissists have) immediately interpret it as me promoting the übermensch, and feel shaken to your core because I have not expressed similar sentiments about Arabs.

    I remember a comical comment you made once

    Not as funny when you warned that Orban was going to start the Fourth Reich because he was against open borders, and trying to promote traditional values, and natalism. Saying that you understood it all because you had read Rise of the Third Reich or something, as if that made you some special scholar. LMAO.

    BTW, now that Orban has been re-elected to his fourth consecutive term, just when do you expect that he will put his plan for world dom into operation? When will Hungary, nation of <10 million, send its tanks sweeping East and West, then across North Africa, to put Arabs in their place?

    That's pretty embarrassing, man. No wonder you denied you said it, and hid your commenting history.

    I remember a comical comment you made once, in the very early days, saying “It gets awfully tiresome, when for example you’re being called “white British” by colonists.”

    My commenting history is open. I guess if I said that, using those words, then you can link to it. At least, if you are not lying through your teeth, or a paranoid schizo.

    BTW, you think it is positive to try to deracinate Europeans living in their native countries, by letting others steal their ethnic identity, and then labeling them white? I don’t and that was my obvious point, which you bizarrely took issue with, so much so that my comment is still living in your head years later, at least with its image distorted, like one of Salvador Dalí’s clocks, twisted by your strange inferiority complex.

    Lol, you only ever mention your Irish heritage once every blue moon.

    Has to be the dumbest thing you have ever said. I’ve always been open about my identity, correcting numerous people who have misapprehended me, and encouraging others to disclose their ethnic biases. I would be in favor of headers with flags.

    I have 13 pages mentioning “Irish”, 16 “Ireland.” Don’t blame me, if you assumed wrongly, and build an imaginary identity for me, without bothering to ask me.

    You called me a Nazi, without even asking anything about me. That was soon after you said that America isn’t accommodating enough to immigrants, and that you knew what it was like to be one and to feel alienated because you were a student here.

    You just LARP from your mother’s basement somewhere in New England.

    It is funny you keep saying this. What is it like being trained to be an Arab Saudi Aramco engineer?

    • Replies: @Yahya
  72. Mikel says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Thanks for the video you posted of Adam Strug in the previous thread. The only European folk music I’ve ever spent some time listening to is the Irish one but this guy produces some nice, easy to listen songs. I’ve spent a while listening to him this morning thanks to you.

    I remember the times, not long ago, when all you had to do to discover nice new music was just listen to the new hits on the radio. They would do the discovery work for you but unfortunately this doesn’t work anymore. They only seem capable of discovering insipid or outright crappy modern music. But of course this doesn’t mean that people have stopped making good music, you now have to go and find it yourself. And it looks like music produced just for local or ethnic markets is one of the best places to find it.

    This is a nice Basque song I discovered last year on youtube. Nothing that will ever become popular outside the Basque Country and not an earth-shattering hit either but so much better than anything in the latest Grammy Awards:

  73. songbird says:
    @S

    are you familiar with the 1964 film Girl With Green Eyes?

    Haven’t seen it, but thanks for bringing it to my attention.

    Off the top of my head, only two movies that I remember being set in Dublin:

    The Informant (1935.) A lot of people like this movie because it is directed by Ford, but something about it really rubbed me the wrong way. I almost felt it was sacrilegious how (spoiler)

    [MORE]
    it seemd to try to turn the odious, titular character into a Crist-like figure. Or, at least, that is how I interpreted it.

    I guess one can look at it like a parable (or an exaggeration of real life tendencies to be faithless), and I might be being too harsh on it

    Evelyn
    (2002) Don’t remember it super-well, but thought it was an okay family film. One of the shots included a place where my mother once lived. It’s an unusual film because, unlike most Hollywood trash, it promotes the idea that a father loves his children and has certain rights to them.

    • Replies: @S
  74. @S

    The United Kingdom was the link below the Netherlands and America. However, Arrighi has argued that Capitalism was not invented in Holland, but in Renaissance Italy. That it is Venice which was the original “commercial republic”.

    • Thanks: S
  75. @Ivashka the fool

    We’ve all had the ‘Vid at least a couple times. No Vax though. I haven’t personally noticed any difference between vaxxed/unvaxxed in this phemenon, though it’s hard to say.

    I know some super-crunchy, organic/natural fanatic, vax-paranoiac people that are as equally affected as average diet, vaxxed people. It doesn’t seem to have much to do with the “moral purity” of one’s inputs whatever the case.

    I’ve always been quite robust as far as immunity goes while my wife is significantly less so. It seems like no matter one’s starting point it’s gone a couple pegs lower. I’m still quite robust and quick to recover but am catching things with much greater frequency.

    A great number of the yucks seem to be that weird combo of gastro-intestinal disquiet along with congestion. It seems likely to be Covid of some very mild form, though I haven’t bother testing. I half wonder if it is not a case of reinfection but the same infection going into remission/ breaking through.

    It almost makes me revisit some of those 5G-is-Covid conspiracies. Not that I think it’s necessarily 5G, but in the aspect of wondering about other systemic factors which have altered the baseline functionality of our immune systems.

    Whatever the case it’s starting to get really annoying.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  76. S says:
    @songbird

    Often feel weirded out by protests in Continental Europe where they are shouting slogans in English. But I think the absolute height of this is when they were shouting “Free the Leopards!” in Berlin.

    The Germans, too, are a bit ‘weirded’ out about it.

    • Agree: songbird
  77. @A123

    Your first explanation has basically been the understanding that I’ve been operating under for the past 18 months or so. However, I would have thought (I may be wrong) that we would have started to reach a point of equilibrium again. It’s making me wonder if my assumptions are somewhat mistaken.

    The other factors you mention don’t seem to apply to my own sphere of experience, but I can’t discount them outside of that.

    It does seem to me that having kids has a lot to due with it. People without young kids don’t seem to me to be getting the recurrent colds as much as ones with.

    The best way that I can encapsulate it is that now I feel like I have my kids in public school in regards to the frequency of colds. Homeschooling, even with a fair bit of other kid contact always seemed to make us much healthier than many public schooled families we know that were constantly sick.

    • Replies: @A123
  78. Wokechoke says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    It sucks don’t it? The antibody is the disease in a sense.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  79. @Barbarossa

    Whatever the case it’s starting to get really annoying.

    It truly is. I believe what sudden death posted in reply to your question might be a better explanation than ADE causing immunodeficiency by killing a subset of immune cells. I will read the article he has provided the link to. Many thanks to sudden death for posting it.

  80. Yahya says:
    @songbird

    Maybe, I sympathize with Germans because I have known a lot of them and liked them?

    You don’t just sympathize with Germans; you are actively obsessed with them; almost as if you are a German. No American here goes around behaving in the same manner – except for the neo-nazis. Just look at your comments from this very thread “But I think the absolute height of this is when they were shouting “Free the Leopards!” in Berlin. Even if they weren’t German, couldn’t they have bothered to learn it in German?”

    LOL. You even keep track of Leopard protests in Berlin. And get all upset when people chant in a non-German language. Seriously, you think any sane, non-Nazi American would ever bother himself with some random protest in Germany? How many Americans do you think even know of this event? Again, you opine on these matters as if you were a German. Just very strange behavior.

    Exhibit 2: When I specifically talked about Irish-Greek genetic distance; you shifted, almost by impulse, to GERMANS.

    [MORE]

    and feel shaken to your core because I have not expressed similar sentiments about Arabs.

    What a stupid assertion. The last thing I’d want is for you to obsess and identify with Arabs the same way you do Germans. It would be the gravest calamity to befall the Arab peoples since the 67’ conflict. Once we admit you into the club (or rather, you insert yourself into ours; as you do with Germans), it’s pretty much game over. May as well give over all the land to Israel. We won’t deserve it.

    You have to be about the most counter-productive activist for white interests. Your mere existence points to a certain defective gene running through your people.

    That’s pretty embarrassing, man. No wonder you denied you said it, and hid your commenting history.

    Stupid assertion no. 2. I hid my commenting history because of certain comments I made in relation to my (authoritarian) government. Nothing to do with Orban.

    Not as funny when you warned that Orban was going to start the Fourth Reich because he was against open borders, and trying to promote traditional values, and natalism

    Putting words in my mouth, especially with regard to that comment, for what has to be the 3rd for 4th time. You just never learn, do you?

    My commenting history is open. I guess if I said that, using those words, then you can link to it. At least, if you are not lying through your teeth, or a paranoid schizo.

    I can in fact link to it. Here is your typically whiny, resentment-fueled, goofball comment: https://www.unz.com/anepigone/wipe-well/#comment-3796783

    I really wish that PoC would stop using the word “white.” It gets awfully tiresome, when for example you’re being called “white British” by colonists. I’d never dream of moving to Arabia without so much as a “how do you do?” and then calling myself an Arab, and the natives there “brown Arabs.” That’d just be obnoxious, and I have more pride than that, to masquerade as some other people, while stealing their identity.

    Because unlike you, I don’t twist or put words in people’s mouths. You think I would actually need to lie about you saying something, to make you look bad? Your retarded comments speak for themselves.

    I have 13 pages mentioning “Irish”, 16 “Ireland.” Don’t blame me, if you assumed wrongly, and build an imaginary identity for me, without bothering to ask me.

    Lol, you have 25 PAGES mentioning “German” and 22 mentioning “Germany”.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  81. @Wokechoke

    Well, as I wrote, it started after the first Covid infection. I did not get the vaccine for nearly a year or so. But I had lingering symptoms, despite the Covid itself being very mild. It might be the spike protein acting as a co-receptor and interacting with some receptor on the lymphocyte B cells, which would explain the drop of immune function after both the i fection and every shot of the vax. I will look into it on NCBI. Not that it is going to change anything even if I understand what really is going on. I’m just being curious about it.

  82. AP says:
    @Barbarossa

    Humans have their own nature which is more unique. We take an active part in the creative function of God by our abilities to imagine and bring those ideas into physical form.

    Working in concert with the Divine Nature we can bring great things into being, but by disregarding those restraints we pervert the nature of the physical world and ourselves

    Well said.

    Since I’ve still got Berdyaev open on my browser, we see a congruence with your insight:

    “ Other historical religions, Judaism, Islam, Brahmanism, have believed in God. But Christianity, and Christianity alone, believes not only in God but in man as well, in manhood as potentially a reflection of the divine. This is the chief peculiarity of Christianity, its specific feature. It is the religion of the incarnation of the Spirit, of the transfiguration of the world; it is no rejection of the world and of mankind. Hindu religious consciousness rejects man and dissolves him in an impersonal divinity. Christianity asserts his dignity and wants to transform him and prepare him for eternity. The Church has rejected the quietism which taught that man was to be completely passive; she has also rejected the teaching which denied the activity implied in the idea of human freedom. Man can be active, victorious over the elemental forces of Nature and outside himself, the organizer and constructor of the world, only if he has within l him the spiritual basis of life which raises him above Nature….”

    “..The Gospel demands that man should be active; that he should actively perfect himself; that he should serve his neighbour actively; that he should likewise actively seek the kingdom of God…”

  83. songbird says:
    @Sher Singh

    Wait is he seriously claiming Alexander?.

    Afraid Yahya has slipped his straight-jacket

    Perhaps, he went to embrace some Spanish tourists, and they shirked back from him, due to his low-caste (i.e. black slave) Tuareg phenotype?

    • Replies: @Yahya
  84. A123 says: • Website
    @Barbarossa

    Thanks.

    One additional thing springs to mind. Do people seem flabbier than they have in the past?

    I am carrying about 5-10 extra pounds versus my pre WUHAN-19 weight. I suspect others have had similar gains. This could also contribute to more often or more intense “crud” as you out it.

    My only recent gripe is a minor back injury. Perhaps the excess weight weakened me up a bit.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @A123
  85. Yahya says:
    @songbird

    Perhaps, he went to embrace some Spanish tourists, and they shirked back from him, due to his low-caste (i.e. black slave) Tuareg phenotype?

    Wow, just when I thought your only redeeming feature was a good sense of humor, you come out with stupidities like this. You can’t even get the jokes right anymore. Learn the difference between Nubians and Tuaregs.

    The Tuareg people are a large Berber ethnic group that principally inhabit the Sahara in a vast area stretching from far southwestern Libya to southern Algeria, Niger, Mali, and Burkina Faso.

    Utu was right, you really are sub-human trash. You possess no value whatsoever.

    Afraid Yahya has slipped his straight-jacket

    Do I need to remind you of the comment you made some time ago (
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-172/#comment-5118251); whereby you lamely attempted to demonstrate European superiority by pointing to Alexander’s conquest of Egypt; and then after I factually informed you that Ancient Greeks like Alexander had squat-all to do with your ilk, you made a stereotypically retarded observation that Ancient Greeks couldn’t possibly be part of an Eastern Mediterranean sphere in antiquity, because some random modern Greek-Americans you know allegedly said they don’t view modern Arabs as kin (because everyone knows this Uber-scientific method is the best way of determining historical fact).

    [MORE]

    Or should I come up with some other comments you made in your archives; in which you also vicariously took pride in Ancient Greek accomplishments; as if some impotent Irish-American like you had any part in it? Didn’t really take me long to find this gem of vicarious pride:

    songbird says:
    May 24, 2018 at 2:51 pm GMT • 4.7 years ago • 200 Words ↑
    @German_reader
    I’m not really a booster of an ancient Egyptian connection to Europe. Only in a way there is a tangential one: most of what we know of them comes from the Greeks. The language could not be read without them. The chronology would not survive without them.
    I think it is fair for all Europeans to feel some pride in ancient Greek accomplishments, for we all share some of the same blood, whether that is Early European Farmer or not. Meanwhile, many Romans were basically flat out Northern Europeans. Rome is above the Hajnal line, and many Romans did not even come from Rome but from Northern Italy or other locations. Virgil, one of the greatest writers of all time, came from Mantua.
    But, of course, these ancient comparisons are somewhat tendentious. The only interesting things blacks built in Africa are in NE Africa – in Ethiopia and Sudan where there is the most Eurasian genetic inflow. The Bantu built nothing interesting whatsoever, unless you count Great Zimbabwe, and it is not really that great, and far exceeded by things built hundreds of years previously in Northern Europe.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/sweden-no/#comment-2342826

    Even predictably inserting a strange and random comparison with black achievements in the end (like a true obsessive!). Sad really that you can’t even own up to your previous statements. Even you must understand how embarrassing it is to make these comments on a deep level.

    • Replies: @songbird
  86. LatW says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I do think real love exists, although I don’t think it necessarily has to express itself in marriage or children. Marriage is a social institution, after all, although love is more likely to express itself in children.

    Of course, love exists outside of marriage in many forms, but you said marriage is only either about “convenience”, “satisfaction” or “following norms”. To which I responded that marriage can also be “for love”, but that’s not the only place where love can exist, obviously. Whereas you tried to argue that all reasons for marriage or LTRs is something rather base or even primitive, thus devaluing it, so I felt the need to make an argument in favor of “romantic marriage”. Marriage is above all a safe place for children, which I wouldn’t say is a “selfish” goal either, as you seem to insinuate about social institutions in general.

    [MORE]

    Btw, in traditional societies, marriage was not merely a “social institution”, it was actually a religious, sanctified union. Including in pagan societies.

    The more I discuss this issue, the more my thoughts are beginning to coalesce around the issue of “contemplation” as one of the major ends of human life, and related to that, the issue of “leisure” as a legitimate goal in its own right, as the Greeks understood it.

    Now you are sounding as if you just want everyone to know that you’re “leaving” this limited and narrow world or morality or something. As we agreed on the other thread, there is plentiful bounty in the wild, surely, one can sustain oneself “hunting and gathering” and then spend what’s left of one’s days in deep contemplation and leisure (good luck!). Is there anything or anyone that is holding you back from that? As I said, feel free! Off you go! Enjoy! I will even envy you a little.

    but I want to put forward the bold notion that contemplation and leisure are ultimately the highest kind of life there is – or at the very least, at least equal to the life of action.

    Why do you keep placing “contemplation” and “leisure” together as if they are one or even close in meaning, when in most traditions contemplation is considered work and training of the mind? Of course, one might need a kind of a “leisurely” setting for that, but those are not the same things or even related. Think of the classic statute “The Thinker” – does that look like leisure to you? 🙂

    modernity is intensely nihilistic, and the nihilism of modern times seems to me a huge problem that needs to be overcome. I’m getting the sense you don’t see this issue as acutely as I do.

    I understand what you are saying very well. Maybe I do not fear this nihilism as much as you do. Maybe I have internalized it more and know how to handle it.

    You seem to hesitate to agree with me that modern life is characterized by materialism, but nothing seems plainer to me.

    I simply do not believe that a human being is a slave to society. It is in our nature to constantly reflect, so are aware of this and can act. You seem to talk about it almost as if “there is no way out”. As if we are slaves to this system. When in fact so many people have bailed what you call “the rat race”. Certainly, I wouldn’t say there is a shortage of people these days who have chosen to take on as little responsibility as possible so as to insulate themselves from any kind of burdensome relationships or obligations or risk of painful experiences (or to engage only in the very minimum in the safest possible way, or what’s worse, only take from others but refuse to give – thankfully, that usually doesn’t go very far).

    It doesn’t mean I have not felt the pain of this materialism, that you allude to, can cause (in EE we felt great pain because of this), maybe I am jus stronger than you and do not fear it as much or let if affect me as much. Since I have a way out through my religion anyway, I can always cushion myself in the ancestral embrace.

    Besides, all earthly beings are somehow tied to the material. In my ancestral worldview, the material is tied to the aesthetic aspects of human life without which life would be empty and to the chthonic forces of the Earth that nourishes us.

    Even those Japanese temples, no matter how discreet and ascetic, in a way have a “materialistic” dimension that tie the aesthetic to the spiritual. This is necessary to welcome those who seek spiritual nourishment.

    And, of course, this doesn’t mean I accept or agree with everything about how the Western economic system is structured, or with needlessly excessive materialistic lifestyles. But why should I deny enjoyment of the material? A responsible human being must know how to control these things in their life as to not engage in harmful things or cause harm to others.

    Here is from a discussion of Aristotle on leisure

    In his book, Aristotle attempts to address most aspects of human life, in a practical way. Thus, he will touch upon leisure as well but it doesn’t constitute the bulk of his teachings, nor does he zero in on it and it is definitely not something he “prizes above all else”. So it is questionable whether “Greeks prized leisure above all”, as you said in the previous thread, to which I responded: “The Greeks prized arete the most”. I will not impose this opinion, since there are several Greek schools and I don’t want to impose my surely limited perception and understanding.

    It is, of course, true that they prized “contemplation”. As I mentioned before, the highest goal is eudaimonia (happiness or sublime welbeing). Aristotle’s ethics are character ethics so the biggest focus is on practical things such as arete (striving for excellence) and practical wisdom (phronesis). The latter in particular requires “work”.

    But we can look at other Greek schools and we’ll find other things that may match your outlook better, maybe Epicurus (who, by the way, is not to be taken literally)?

    Anywa, I don’t want to impose my worldview, I like to keep an open mind. I hope I do not come off as too categorical or judgy.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
  87. A123 says: • Website
    @A123

    …as you out it.

    That should read — …as you *put* it.

    I would challenge Autocorrect to a fight to the depth. Except, the evil electronic thing would change that to *depth*. Then there would be 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea references.

    PEACE 😇

    [MORE]

    Yes. I did that deliberately.

    Just trying to see who is paying attention.

  88. Yahya says:
    @Sher Singh

    American whites and blacks claim everyone’s history tbh.
    There’s an Afro & Euro centric Kang tale about everything.

    Not all Americans. Just assorted goofball WNs like ‘songbird’ and ‘S’ etc.

    Though they mock blacks for the “we wuz kangz” meme; they lack the self-awareness to understand that they are mirror images.

  89. S says:
    @songbird

    Evelyn (2002) Don’t remember it super-well, but thought it was an okay family film. One of the shots included a place where my mother once lived. It’s an unusual film because, unlike most Hollywood trash, it promotes the idea that a father loves his children and has certain rights to them.

    Not many films do that now, true.

    [MORE]

    Am reminded a bit of the ‘beloved husband and wife’ scene from the 1976 film Logan’s Run. This may have been just a cynical sop, but it’s a powerful scene, all the same.

    From the same movie, starting at 3:52, people for the first time in their lives see an old man. This was just after their materialistic, hedonistic, and completely youth oriented society had imploded.

    • Thanks: songbird
  90. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    You’re an atheist because you have no consistent theos.

    I’m calling you a monkey running around blind.

    One does not engage in idol worship & claim to speak for the Abrahamics.

    Your misappropriation or claimed affiliations with our Dharma while being a malesh (cow killer) is similar.

    Have been very straightforward in telling you the issue why it’s an issue, and the solution to resolve the conflict.


    As it is still unclear then genocide is the only solution as you & w/e you represent or come from are unfit for human habitation.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Agree: Yevardian
  91. A123 says: • Website

    Why are Muslims so awful to indigenous Palestinian Christians? (1)

    [Muslims] Beat and Pepper-spray Elderly Priest, Stone Churches in Jaffa

    On Christmas Eve, 2022, a group of Palestinian “youth” assaulted a Coptic Christian church in Jaffa, Israel. After hurling stones and empty glass bottles at St. Anthony’s Church, they stormed it and savagely beat Fr. Michael Mansour, its priest.

    An example is certainly needed. Although the few Arabic language sources reporting on this incident portray it as an aberrant act that does not represent Muslim-Christian relations in the Holy Land, persecution of that region’s Christians and their holy places has, in fact, been increasing.

    It is proven fact that Muslims spit on Palestinian Christians. Then they lie and claim Jews did it. There is only one path to ending Muhammadan violence against the followers of Jesus.

    ===========================================
        Muslim Colonies are the Problem.
                Muslim Decolonization is the Answer!
    ===========================================

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/columns/raymond-ibrahim/2023/01/23/palestinians-beat-and-pepper-spray-elderly-priest-stone-churches-in-jaffa-n1664289

  92. @Yahya

    Brutus, the alleged first ruler of Britain came from Troy. No obvious link but were the Trojans Greeks?

    I would have expected Bashkiris and Turks to show some kinship.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  93. songbird says:
    @Yahya

    Learn the difference between Nubians and Tuaregs.

    More trollish and amusing to call you a low-caste Tuareg. It satisfies the requirement of being a “sand people”, while tying you to recent West African slave admixture (thus explaining your affinities), and not attributing any of the modest accomplishments that the Nubians might have to you.

    [MORE]

    (BTW, am thinking this probably went past you, due to your general ignorance, but when I called you a “low-cast” Tuareg, I was referring to the fact that the Tuareg have caste, and that you would be at the bottom of their hierarchy, with your recent Afro-slave admixture.)

    Will keep your suggestion to call you a “Nubian” in mind, and consider it further. But I make no promises, as I say it doesn’t naturally appeal to me, or suit my purposes.

    Am afraid the rest of your recent comments (“You are a neo-Nazi if you mention Germany on a geopolitical forum”, “The average Greek feels an intense brotherhood with Arabs”, “Ancient Greece and Rome were PoC, and not the cradle of European civilization”, etc) are just too dumb to address.

    Probably will fall on deaf ears: but try to show a little more creativity, rather than seeming like a broken record, repeating someone else’s dumb insults.

    • Replies: @Yahya
  94. AP says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    And I guess there’s little point in repeating that Jesus said we should give up wealth

    Wealth is irrelevant, if one believes in God and uses it accordingly. A greedy sinful poor person is not better than a virtuous and generous rich one.

    I also note that you didn’t respond to my pointing out that the highest form of prayer in the Heyschast tradition is contemplation, which is emptying the mind and doing nothing

    I missed that. No Hesychasm is not “doing nothing” but assuming a particular pose for a long time, engaging in rhythmic breathing, and repeating the Jesus prayer while matching it to the breathing over and over again. It is too active for a lazy consumer such as you.

    If you take a few years to work on this tradition, rather than engage in your “eat pray love” tourism in the wilderness, than you will be making something of yourself.

    But it’s interesting that you are defending Christianity from the “slur” of not focusing on material ends

    As a hopeless materialist you can only conceive of activity and work in this world as having “material ends.”

    like the Bolsheviks, you accept that materialism is the yardstick of value

    Don’t misrepresent what I wrote. . I wrote about activity and you claim I wrote about “materialism.”

    One of the things that irks me about political discussions these days is that all sides, left and right, argue from the same set of shared assumptions and values.

    Correction: you are incapable of seeing beyond your bourgeois nature so you falsely assume that others share your assumptions and values.

    As a bourgeois materialist you cannot conceive of activity as not having to do with “materialism.”

    As a bourgeois materialist you struggle to conceive of family or marriage as not having to do with social status or transactions of some kind.

    so activity that we do for its own sake and not for some other end – like appreciating the beauty of nature – is an act of “consumption”

    For you, the bourgeois materialist, it is indeed so.

    Because if you cannot appreciate beauty in seemingly mundane things, even man-made things, than you are incapable of really appreciating it. So you collect rare experiences in remote places like some other bourgeois might collect shoes. It’s all the same with your kind.

    even within the capitalist paradigm whose terms you are employing, the purpose of work is so that one can consume…So let’s just say then I’m a defender of “consumption” as being primary, and the means to consumption secondary

    At least you honestly admit it. You are a materialist bourgeois, but without even the virtue of being hard working. You are just a consumer, or parasite, of other’s work. One who in his arrogance and pride compares himself to some monk.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
  95. @Sher Singh

    You are making absurd claims about me. Despite your insults, I have stayed polite and civil as a grown up man should be. But you’re simply not worthy of my time.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    , @Mikel
    , @Yevardian
  96. Wokechoke says:
    @Philip Owen

    I understand the word Britain is derived from the Carthaginian/Phoenician term that the Romans borrowed: Tin-lands: Pritan.

  97. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Your misappropriation or claimed affiliations with our Dharma while being a malesh (cow killer) is similar.

    Have been very straightforward in telling you the issue why it’s an issue, and the solution to resolve the conflict.

    You either consume the flesh of cattle &/or tolerate it or you don’t.
    It’s very simple, and if you can’t take a simple position or answer a simple question..

    Then anything you stand for it also pointless.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  98. Mikel says:
    @Barbarossa

    If our immune systems are doing a noticeably poorer job keeping pathogens from getting to a symptomatic level what implications does that have for other functions of the immune system such as eliminating cancer cells before they take hold?

    Good question. But I wouldn’t be too worried, the mechanisms must be quite different. Otherwise, people with compromised immune systems would be more prone to getting cancer and I’ve never heard of that being a risk factor for cancer in general. This is not my area of expertise at all though. It would be interesting to read AnonfromTN’s take on this. I get the feeling that Ivashka may know a couple of things on this type of subjects too.

    For whatever it’s worth, I haven’t noticed much of a difference after catching a very mild form of Covid and getting the mRNA vaccine afterwards. I don’t remember having caught any cold in the past couple of years but I did have a weird strep-kind of throat infection some months ago that I attributed to bugs running rampant post-Covid. As you say, it seems to be an established fact that people lost immunity during the lockdowns and mandatory masking due to lack of exposure. I’ve actually read about that in the news several times. Perhaps the fact that I haven’t noticed much difference is due to the part of Utah where I live having always been open during the Covid scare. There were no lockdowns and masks were only mandatory in healthcare facilities. It must have been more strict in New York state.

    Glad that you brought up the topic in the safest part of Unz. Otherwise, we would have gotten an avalanche of conspiracy-themed comments, making any sane discussion impossible.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
  99. AP says:
    @RSDB

    I don’t think the poor are especially sinful, as a class

    You are mistaken. They are more likely to commit various sins. I posted that earlier.

    That those who are low in society turn to the fiercer satisfactions, and doing so helps keep them poor, while those who are more wealthy can turn to more refined pleasures, is not especially surprising.

    Of course. Not only more refined, but less harmful. Our Christian society has been structured in such a way that sins are viewed as disreputable.

    I seem to recall someone saying something somewhere about camels and eyes of needles?

    Orthodox source:

    https://www.goarch.org/-/orthodox-christian-wealth-and-stewardship

    It would be easy to misunderstand Jesus here and to assume that it’s impossible for a rich person to get into heaven. But Jesus was most likely making an example of this self-righteous young ruler. He is a sad example of a person who is convinced he is religious, but misses the whole point. He followed the letter of the law, yet he did not carry love in his heart.

    St. Clement warns us not to interpret this passage to mean that wealth will keep us from the kingdom of heaven. He writes that it is the attitude of the soul that is important. It is the passion for wealth, not the wealth itself that condemns a man. Catholic source:

    https://blog.acton.org/archives/23341-st-clement-of-alexandria-on-the-value-of-wealth.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CRiches%20then%20should%20not%20be,for%20the%20use%20of%20men.%E2%80%9D

    Clement wrote that a person could give everything away only to doubly regret his decision. To teach that Jesus intends for every disciple to give up everything contradicts statements like those of Luke 16:9, which urges us to make friends by the use of wealth. “Riches then should not be rejected if they can be of use to our neighbor. They are accurately called possessions because they are possessed by people, and goods or utilities because with them one can do good and because they have been ordained by God for the use of men.”

    What Clement is saying is that goods and possessions can be instruments in the hands of skilled servants who use them to bless others and advance great good. “Riches, then, are also an instrument.” If rightly used they can bring about justice and service. He added, “In themselves riches are blameless.”

    Pride, for instance, the first sin and chief of sins, does not seem to be quite so much of a temptation to the poor of America

    Poor can be just as proud as rich people. A lot of poor people even needlessly kill one another over issues of pride and respect.

    For those who enjoy the Gospels, being active in using the gifts one has been given is good. Idleness is not:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @RSDB
    , @Mikel
  100. Yahya says:
    @songbird

    More trollish and amusing to call you a low-caste Tuareg. It satisfies the requirement of being a “sand people”, while tying you to recent West African slave admixture

    Keep lying yourself. You were simply too ignorant and confused to select the correct Afro-Arab group found in my parts of town.

    Am afraid the rest of your recent comments (“You are a neo-Nazi if you mention Germany on a geopolitical forum”, “The average Greek feels an intense brotherhood with Arabs”, “Ancient Greece and Rome were PoC, and not the cradle of European civilization”, etc) are just too dumb to address.

    You are too dumb to even quote me properly. Just putting words in my mouth; twisting them to suit your purposes. As usual.

    Never have I said Greeks feel an intense brotherhood with Arab. I said Ancient Greeks were part of the Eastern Mediterranean oikumene during antiquity. A historical fact; which you seem incapable of absorbing; because you are a mirror image of the “we wuz kangz” brigade; absurdly projecting present-day American racial lingo (“PoC”) to the ancient world; and attempting to appropriate Greek historical achievements, though your people played no part in it.

    Why don’t you read a book sometime on Ancient Greece? Figure out which part of the world they interacted with the most at the time. Maybe then you wouldn’t be such an ahistorical cretin.

    But for now; I leave you once again with a map of genetic distance from Mycenaean and Minoan Greeks; so you can let go of your simplistic notions of “white” vs “poc” division across the Bosporus.

    But my guess is that your thick skull won’t allow entry to these basic, fundamental facts.

    So continue being a retard.

    • Replies: @songbird
  101. @Sher Singh

    I am fed up interacting with you, but one should train the Great Virtue of Patience and exercise the Great Virtue of Gift.

    Consider this reply a Dana.

    1) I have never claimed association with anything you represent.

    2) You have no idea about anything I believe.

    3) Things that are truly sacred to oneself should never be discussed online because those reading might prove unfit to understand them.

    4) God cannot be adequately described.

    That is all I have to say.

    May you benefit from our exchange.

    Be well.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  102. In the 1950s, Atilhan and Kısakürek argued that the Lausanne treaty was a Jewish plot, masterminded by Chief Rabbi Haim Nahum, a consultant of the Turkish delegation at Lausanne. Their conspiracy theory set out how they believed the 1923 treaty represented a major defeat for Turkey, not only for the territorial and economic losses it inflicted through its known and “secret” clauses. By paving the way for the abolition of the Caliphate in March 1924 it also weakened Turkish society morally, upending the “unity and consciousness of Islam”.

    https://asiatimes.com/2023/01/many-turks-await-unveiling-of-1923-secret-clauses/

  103. Mikel says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Despite your insults, I have stayed polite and civil as a grown up man should be.

    If my memory doesn’t fail, you both live in the same country. Perhaps you should invite Sher to meet up one day and just solve all your differences around some good burgers with fries.

  104. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    believe

    Another deracinated white american.
    Your sovok background doesn’t make you an Easterner.

    Dana.

    1) I have never claimed association with anything you represent.

    My clan is Chandra Vansh ie Soma Vansh ie Bharat Vansh

    Daan or Dana is a Sanskrit/Pali term.


    You’re a larper.

    https://www.manglacharan.com/post/practice-is-supreme-bhai-gurdas


    Imagine trying to discuss Dharma while killing cows.

    https://rkpayne.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/secular-buddhism-unitarianism-in-buddhist-drag/

    You’re a failed white liberal trying to appropriate Bodha Panth.
    You speak of heritage – yet cannot name the Slavic Gods or how they’re worshipped.
    Cannot reconstruct your ‘faith’ without texts by christian monks.

    You could become Dharmic while respecting your Gods.
    However, that would alienate you from White Christians.
    You’ve chosen your path.

    You are not Saka you are a slav(e)
    The SMO has reminded the world of your position.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  105. Sher Singh says:
    @Mikel

    I go outside, and hear the birds sing.
    White genocide, it’s a beautiful thing.

  106. RSDB says:
    @AP

    He followed the letter of the law, yet he did not carry love in his heart.

    Yes, and would your statistics have counted him as sinful or not?

    Poor can be just as proud as rich people.

    They can be. Are they? Who marches in “pride parades”? Do your statistics measure pride? If not, are they accurate measures of sinfulness in toto?

    For those who enjoy the Gospels, being active in using the gifts one has been given is good. Idleness is not:

    In one of the villages he entered during his journey, a woman called Martha entertained him in her house. She had a sister called Mary; and Mary took her place at the Lord’s feet, and listened to his words. Martha was distracted by waiting on many needs; so she came to his side, and asked, Lord, art thou content that my sister should leave me to do the serving alone? Come, bid her help me. Jesus answered her, Martha, Martha, how many cares and troubles thou hast! But only one thing is necessary; and Mary has chosen for herself the best part of all, that which shall never be taken away from her.

    Nobody is saying that the bag lady you pass on the street is necessarily very much like Mary in the story above. However, I am inviting you to reflect that you and I are not necessarily better people than her given our various paths in life, and that the distance between any of us looks incredibly small when compared to the distance between all of us and that perfection to which we are called by Christ.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @AP
  107. Wokechoke says:
    @RSDB

    Nothing annoys an early adopter more than the most recent convert.

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
  108. AP says:
    @RSDB

    “He followed the letter of the law, yet he did not carry love in his heart.”

    Yes, and would your statistics have counted him as sinful or not?

    We can not measure what is in people’s hearts but we can infer it by statistics that measure things such as committing acts of violence such as assault or rape, or engaging in debasement such as drug abuse.

    And on these measures the poor (in general) do poorly compared to the rich. In Jesus time it was not the case.

    Nobody is saying that the bag lady you pass on the street is necessarily very much like Mary in the story above. However, I am inviting you to reflect that you and I are not necessarily better people than her given our various paths in life, and that the distance between any of us looks incredibly small when compared to the distance between all of us and that perfection to which we are called by Christ.

    I agree completely. The bag lady is probably mentally ill. I explicitly stated that a minority of poor are poor for no reason of their own at all.

    As for the rest – I describe, but do not judge. They should be, not idolized or praised as some kind of rebel against a bad capitalist order and allowed to further harm themselves (what a disgusting way to use human beings and their suffering) – but helped. And certainly not allowed to debase themselves and harm others.

    • Replies: @RSDB
    , @Barbarossa
  109. @Mikel

    I don’t have a different with him, but he has somehow found a way to have a different with me.

    He’s battling “failed American Slav White Liberal Neo-pagan LARPERs” in his own head.

    It must be a terrible experience.

    What can we do ?

    Only wish him to get better soon…

    🙂

  110. @Sher Singh

    You really are off the tracks today.

    Take your pills, have some sleep.

    It’s gonna be better tomorrow.

    🙂

  111. Mikel says:
    @AP

    You are mistaken. They are more likely to commit various sins. I posted that earlier.

    You just showed some crude correlation between sinful acts and poverty but the causality is uncertain. People living in poverty are more likely to engage in some antisocial behaviors out of necessity, eg a destitute person is of course more much likely to feel the need to steal than a wealthy individual leading a comfortable life. Likewise, a person born and grown up among immoral people is less likely to learn good habits and prosper in life than if that same person had been born in a virtuous family. So that correlation on its own doesn’t necessarily teach us much about any innate tendencies among people who happen to be born in different social classes (I do think that there might be some innate poverty-immorality link but not that your data demonstrates it).

    It would be easy to misunderstand Jesus here and to assume that it’s impossible for a rich person to get into heaven.

    How can anyone misunderstand this?

    “I’ll say it again-it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!” Matthew 19:24

    This is exactly what I was taught Jesus had said when I was a child. Having been born in a rather well-to-do family, I remember feeling threatened by this remark of Jesus and finding it cruel. I still had the time to become poor later in later in life, I thought, but what about my parents? Were they virtually condemned to go to hell?

    • Replies: @AP
    , @RSDB
  112. songbird says:
    @Yahya

    You are too dumb to even quote me properly. Just putting words in my mouth

    Would use blockquotes, if I were trying to quote you. (Or punish anyone reading this thread). But you said nothing meaningful, and were disrespectful, so I chose to satirize you.

    [MORE]

    Will address your point about the genetics of Ancient Greece though, since it is semi-cogent, and I don’t think I made a proper response to it. To attempt to summarize:

    You are correct that Ancient Greeks were more closely related to Ancient Anatolians than Modern Greeks are to Turks, and your explanation about why this has changed is also right.

    You are correct (but straw-manning) to object and say this doesn’t meant that Turks aren’t the descendants of Ancient Greeks. (In fact, I have never claimed that they weren’t)

    What I did say, and what is true is that modern Greeks and Turks have a relatively high genetic distance for neighboring countries. (BTW, don’t believe you acknowledged this, and I am not quite sure you understand what it means.)

    It literally means that modern Greeks are more genetically related to the French than to Turks. Relatedness =/= descent. But that doesn’t mean that relatedness isn’t meaningful.

    [To give an extreme example: if a Swede misceginates with a Nigerian, then they are literally more genetically related to a random Swede than they will be to their own kids. If they are looking for a bone-marrow transplant, or an organ transplant, they’ll probably need to get it from someone other than their children.

    You might say, “Well, they are still their children.” And that is true, but their genetic distance to their children is very high and there are consequences to that – it isn’t just some abstract number, but something that represents a tangible reality]

    I have speculated that this is what explains modern tensions and political differences. Now, I grant you this is where my logic might be a little murky or a reach. The genes are mixed up with history, religion, and culture.

    I think it is pretty obvious that, if the Ottomans had been utterly defeated, Greece and Turkey would be one country and one culture. That is alt history. Maybe, not especially likely. And it is possible to imagine crazier scenarios.

    What if we secretly shifted the DNA of the Turks or the Greeks to reduce the genetic distance to zero, without letting them catch on? Would it reduce tensions? If we didn’t change the historical baggage or cultural differences? I would guess not. (Am too lazy to look it up, but I think Bosnians and Serbs are much more closely related)

    Anyway, whatever the case, it is notable that the genetic distance is so high. And I don’t understand why you can’t seem to acknowledge that, and leave it at that. That was really what my original post was about.

    • Replies: @Yahya
  113. Hilarious news coming from NY:

    A former top FBI counterintelligence official – in fact, the guy who received the tip that supposedly kicked off the Trump-Russia investigation – has been arrested and charged with violating US sanctions on Russia by taking secret payments from a Russian oligarch in order to investigate another oligarch.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/top-fbi-russiagate-official-took-secret-payments-russian-oligarch-doj

    [MORE]

  114. songbird says:
    @Sher Singh

    [MORE]

    • Disagree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  115. @sudden death

    The article is more technical than I can fully understand. However, my idiot/ layman’s takeaway is as follows.

    Covid short circuits the immune system’s memory pathways in unusual ways (cellular metabolic hyperactivity) to avoid detection. At the time the article was written (September 2021) they were unsure if that deficiency in immune system memory applied to future Covid infections or to infections caused by other causes.

    Anyone with more technical knowledge can please feel free to correct me. I also did a bit of additional looking and it seems like there is not much additional certainty out there to expand on that article.

    I’ll do a little spitballing. Perhaps some of the recurrent mild colds are due to an overactive immune system response not an underactive one and are basically immune system over-reactions to what never would have registered previously as illnesses.

    I’m also thinking about my pre-Covid experience contrasted with some public schooled families. We live in a rural/ farm environment and are quite social which seems as though it would be a pretty good recipe for broad based immune system building without excessive exposure. This seemed to bear out with the infrequency of illnesses.

    Perhaps the problem with the public school environment is that it is too much of a petri dish and the much greater exposure load is often too much and causes some level of immune response hyperactivity and exhaustion.

    If true maybe a similar effect is at work with Covid. The side effects of immune system hyperactivity that Covid seems likely to cause could be over stressing and over stimulating many of our immune systems. The immune system hyperactivity could be giving a foothold that other infections are exploiting, the spread of which overstimulates our immune system yet again.

    Perhaps we are seeing a cascading effect of overstimulated and flailing immune systems which will take quite a while to fully settle out.

    At any rate it seems my previous spitballing on cancer incidences would likely be incorrect, but it seems likely that we will see a spike in autoimmune issues.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  116. @Mikel

    Glad that you brought up the topic in the safest part of Unz.

    Trust me, if I had not had full confidence that it would be discussed in a sane and interesting way I wouldn’t have brought it up! NY was more strict in general, but my part of the state was really probably effectively the equivalent of what you did in Utah.

  117. @Barbarossa

    Sometimes an immune system overstimulation can lead to as subsequent immune system deficiency. It happens with the superantigens.

    A hyperinflammatory syndrome reminiscent of toxic shock syndrome (TSS) is observed in severe COVID-19 patients, including children with Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children (MIS-C). TSS is typically caused by pathogenic superantigens stimulating excessive activation of the adaptive immune system. We show that SARS-CoV-2 spike contains sequence and structure motifs highly similar to those of a bacterial superantigen and may directly bind T cell receptors. We further report a skewed T cell receptor repertoire in COVID-19 patients with severe hyperinflammation, in support of such a superantigenic effect. Notably, the superantigen-like motif is not present in other SARS family coronaviruses, which may explain the unique potential for SARS-CoV-2 to cause both MIS-C and the cytokine storm observed in adult COVID-19.

    https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2010722117

    Looks like Covid can cause both a T cell and a B cell deregulation.

    It has been posited SARS-CoV-2 contains at least one unique superantigen-like motif not found in any other SARS or endemic coronaviruses. Superantigens are potent antigens that can send the immune system into overdrive. SARS-CoV-2 causes many of the biological and clinical consequences of a superantigen, and, in the context of reinfection and waning immunity, it is important to better understand the impact of a widely circulating, airborne pathogen that may be a superantigen, superantigen-like or trigger a superantigenic host response. Urgent research is needed to better understand the long-term risks being taken by governments whose policies enable widespread transmission of a potential superantigenic pathogen, and to more clearly define the vaccination and public health policies needed to protect against the consequences of repeat exposure to the pathogen.

    https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0817/11/4/390

    Might explain why after been in contact with the spike protein, through both COVID-19 infection and /or vaccine, the immune system of the infected person would become unbalanced and less efficient.

    BTW the superantigenic insert is yet another very peculiar feature of the COVID-19 genome.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
  118. @AP

    Wealth is irrelevant, if one believes in God and uses it accordingly. A greedy sinful poor person is not better than a virtuous and generous rich one.

    The possession of wealth, according to Jesus, imposes on its bearer certain states of mind that make it difficult to experience heaven.

    Of course, many of the poor are no better off, also anxious about physical things and highly materialist.

    Jesus doesn’t say the poor will automatically enter heaven, only that having wealth is a barrier to entering it. It’s easy for to see why.

    I missed that. No Hesychasm is not “doing nothing” but assuming a particular pose for a long time, engaging in rhythmic breathing, and repeating the Jesus prayer while matching it to the breathing over and over again. It is too active for a lazy consumer such as you.

    Actually, growing up in a corrupted society focused on action, it takes a surprising amount of “discipline” to simply do nothing.

    We have to resist all our conditioning, the habits and instincts of a society that focuses on superficial activity.

    From our starting point, it takes conscious will to resist social conditioning. But it’s a curious kind of “action” in that it’s non-action 🙂

    There is a classic of Zen called The Gateless Gate – in this book it is constantly emphasized that there is no gate one must pass through, there is nothing to be accomplished and nothing to do, and that realizing that is precisely the gate one must pass through 🙂

    Much spirituality is actually de-conditioning ourselves from our social upbringing and the effects of a society focused on disguising what constitutes true human flourishing – and revealing our true natures as God made them for the first time.

    This idea of course is central to Taoism, but one of the fascinating things I found out while reading about the Desert Fathers and the early Christian ascetics this summer is that many of them had the exact same notion of fleeing society to reveal the perfection of our true nature as God intended.

    Today, we tend to think Christianity says our “true nature” is sinful and bad, but it turns out the early Christians – at least many of them – had the Taoistic notion that our true natures are good and it is society that corrupts.

    The more you move away from later Christianity, and especially modern, the more you come to see why it was originally seen as such a positive and optimistic movement, especially against the backdrop of an overly corrupt, complex, artificial, Roman civilization..

  119. @Ivashka the fool

    That all makes sense to me. As a practical matter it would seem to me that the best policy would to attempt to bring the immune system into a better state of self regulation. Previously I was thinking more in terms of boosting immune system activity but now I’m leaning more toward regulation and support.

    I would guess that herbs and foods with natural antibiotic and antiviral properties would be helpful since they would take some pressure off an over stimulated immune system. Strangely enough though, I always had extremely good results from drinking an extremely strong fresh ginger tea to kick a cold. Since the Covid era, it doesn’t seem to have the same effect. I’ll have to do more reading and experimentation to see if I can find any combinations which make a noticeable difference.

  120. RSDB says:
    @Barbarossa

    Going to your original point several threads ago about familial breakdown, I know someone in Colombo, who would probably be homeless in the US as a white American.

    [MORE]

    Actually not inconsiderable quantities of money have passed through his hands at various times in his life and every single time they have passed out again to the poor and to anyone who was in want, or seemed to be. (Not necessarily the so-called “deserving poor” either but this is getting far afield.)

    He was a brilliant student in his youth and was, I believe, the highest scorer up to that point on the mate’s exam in the SL merchant marine; at any rate I know he worked as a navigator on various ships before beginning to develop schizophrenia, or at least what was diagnosed as schizophrenia. Schizophrenia in those days was treated by shock therapy, which was not very helpful, but, anyway, by the time I got to know him, he was on medication which helped make him seem fairly normal although it had various unpleasant side effects. If you got into a conversation with him, he was very well-read and quite perceptive. As I mentioned, money passed through his hands like water. He lives with extended family and looks after various things around the house, takes the children to school, etc. Actually he has a part interest in the house which is the only property he hasn’t given away over the years, probably because he feels it is a sort of trust.

    For a while he worked for his brother’s business but he tends to be very bad at handling people diplomatically, whether that is an effect of the disease or the medication, which made that a bad idea. Anyway he is probably, also, one of the most saintly people I have ever known, insofar as one can tell such things.

    The point of this anecdote is that a strong family does have an effect in keeping people together who might otherwise fall to pieces. It’s not a fail-safe but the atomization of society is certainly one factor among many in our crazy upside-down universe of values.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Thanks: Barbarossa
  121. AP says:
    @Mikel

    You just showed some crude correlation between sinful acts and poverty but the causality is uncertain. People living in poverty are more likely to engage in some antisocial behaviors out of necessity, eg a destitute person is of course more much likely to feel the need to steal than a wealthy individual leading a comfortable life.

    Read Murray’s Coming Apart. The poor live more sinful lives than the middle and upper classes. Not just the desperate poor. And in the USA few people can be considered to be desperately poor, on the edge of starvation, etc.

    “It would be easy to misunderstand Jesus here and to assume that it’s impossible for a rich person to get into heaven.”

    How can anyone misunderstand this?

    “I’ll say it again-it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!” Matthew 19:24

    They misunderstand it when they don’t read the entire passage, and as a result get a false meaning based on a snippet. Here is the full one:

    “And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    Nor do they consider it together with other passages (see my other post).

    This is why it is foolish to pick individual quotes to try to prove something, instead of following the teachings of the Church. The Church teaches that wealth is not as important as faith and use of that wealth in accordance with faith. St. Clement in the 2nd century wrote that possessi0n are not in themselves good or evil but it depends how they are used and it is sinful to allow oneself to be controlled by them or be obsessed by the need for their acquisition. But there is nothing wrong with being rich as long as one uses his wealth well and is not too attached to it.

    When the priest reads Mathew 19:24 he reads it all and explains it in that way.

  122. @Sher Singh

    You’re an atheist because you have no consistent theos.

    The strongest impression that I’ve had is that your religious expression is mostly concentrated on a sort of Neitzschean “will to power” ethos. Plenty of irreligious people adopt that, so I would be curious how your expression of it is a consistent theos. How do you distinguish your own material lusts from religious conviction? Self deception is, after all, a skill that we as humans excel at.

  123. RSDB says:
    @AP

    We can not measure what is in people’s hearts but we can infer it by statistics

    What would you have inferred about the young man, the Pharisee, and the publican respectively?

    I describe, but do not judge.

    What is inferring what is in someone’s heart?

    I agree completely.

    Yes, I think that we disagree mainly on words.

    [MORE]

    My main problem is with the idea of the quantification of sin. For instance: you discussed earlier the way the system in California encourages delinquency and officials profit from that. Taking that on its face, as I have no reason not to, are not the people involved in creating and running that system, who lead comfortable lives and probably do not often shiv anybody themselves, taking an advantage which almost certainly involves sin or, to be a bit more precise, at the very least material cooperation in sin on their part? And would that culpability not be magnified by the responsibility of their position*?

    Of the four “sins which cry to heaven for vengeance”, two cannot be committed by the destitute at all, and one of the remaining two is likely no more common among them than among their social superiors.

    *You will perhaps accuse me of judging them and the irony has not escaped me. However, we are considering here only a specific aspect, not the entire state of their souls. I think this is where the confusion comes in when discussing “judging” and I may be reacting to a mistaken reading of your meaning.

    • Replies: @AP
  124. @AP

    Indeed, with God all things are possible – since I believe in universal salvation with no one being eternally damned, (which somehow I’m quite sure you don’t 🙂 ) even the wicked and wealthy will eventually be brought by God into heaven.

    Of course, in the meantime a lot of self-inflicted pain will have to be endured as the wealthy and ambitious psychologically and spiritually distance themselves from God and refuse to realize the true ends of human life as God intended and succumb to the mania for merely securing existence, and that’s not nothing, even if it all ends well.

    But at some point, AP, you’ll be alright, even if now you suffer 🙂

  125. @LatW

    Fair enough, I didn’t mean to imply marriage cannot be about love, of course it can, just that the formal structure of marriage is primarily a social institution, and to be honest, I’d include investing it with a sacral character as you describe traditional societies to have done.

    Although to be fair, I’d say investing it with a sacral character is an attempt to give it an extra-social dimension, but even so it remains a mixed institution at best.

    There’s a reason literally every single spiritual tradition does not consider marriage the highest form of life – certainly not Christianity.

    Please don’t get me wrong, this isn’t to condemn marriage or deny it can have attractive features, or that it can be done in a better or worse way, but the modern elevation of marriage as primary seems obviously connected to the advent of nihilism, as is the modern elevation of work.

    Now you are sounding as if you just want everyone to know that you’re “leaving” this limited and narrow world or morality or something. As we agreed on the other thread, there is plentiful bounty in the wild, surely, one can sustain oneself “hunting and gathering” and then spend what’s left of one’s days in deep contemplation and leisure (good luck!). Is there anything or anyone that is holding you back from that? As I said, feel free! Off you go! Enjoy! I will even envy you a little.

    Now you’re being facetious 🙂

    Surely you realize society employs a variety of means to make this extremely difficult for all but the most determined and eccentric, from immense social pressure to the organization of the economy to the monopolization of land ownership, especially fertile and arable land.

    But more than that, you’re wrong that I simply want to “abandon society” like some misanthrope – I wouldn’t be posting here if I did 🙂

    One of the key insights is that everything is interconnected, all of us are. I personally feel a vocation to a sort of “mixed” spiritual life – I spend large amounts of time in solitude in nature, and travelling, but I also want to introduce the spirit of that back into society, as I think recovering this dimension is of vital importance to the rest of mankind in their struggle with modern nihilism, and crucially and centrally, I want to give courage and example to all those lost souls who succumb to the social pressure of anti-spiritual people like AP and sink into the socially approved life of quiet desperation that results when one abandons the true ends of human life out of a misguided mania for securing the mere means of existence.

    So – you’re not getting rid of me that easily 🙂

    Why do you keep placing “contemplation” and “leisure” together as if they are one or even close in meaning, when in most traditions contemplation is considered work and training of the mind? Of course, one might need a kind of a “leisurely” setting for that, but those are not the same things or even related. Think of the classic statute “The Thinker” – does that look like leisure to you? 🙂

    Yes, I didn’t say “thought” – in contemplation you do not engage in strenuous thought trying to figure out problems 🙂

    It is precisely an emptying the mind of pesky thoughts and an abandonment of the need to figure things out 🙂

    Certainly, this too is a kind of “effort”, but of a very peculiar kind that is a kind of determined anti-effort, as I explained to AP.

    Well, according to the distinction between leisure and work suggested by Aristotle above, which I adopted, leisure is a state where you focus on activities and things you do for their own intrinsic sake, not for some other end, like securing the means to existence.

    Contemplation – an emptying the mind of thought and the attempt to figure things out (capture reality in a net of conceptual categories) – so that one can come into the stark presence of God, the numinous, and the mysterious, and realize ones true nature, is clearly done for it’s own sake, so it’s clearly a leisure activity and not work.

    Insofar as contemplation involves the willed suspension of effort (which is itself a form of effort 🙂 ), it bears similarities to leisure in the sense of inactivity, as well.

    I understand what you are saying very well. Maybe I do not fear this nihilism as much as you do. Maybe I have internalized it more and know how to handle it

    .

    I would like very much to believe you – in fact, this sounds very Nietzschean 🙂 Nietzsche thought the modern task was to simply “will” oneself out of nihilism.

    But I don’t believe this post-modern task can be done, because I believe in an objective structure to reality, and nihilism isn’t some contingent fact but a necessary result of our relationship to the world.

    But more importantly, I believe you and AP, being from Eastern Europe, are merely a few decades behind us in the West – I don’t think you’ve “mastered” nihilism, you’re just breathing the last fumes of meaning that have not yet fully vanished from your culture. Yours and APs attitude are an exact replica of the attitude in the West right before full blown nihilism exploded onto the scene. It’s the penultimate stage of this disease.

    Certainly, I wouldn’t say there is a shortage of people these days who have chosen to take on as little responsibility as possible so as to insulate themselves from any kind of burdensome relationships or obligations or risk of painful experiences (or to engage only in the very minimum in the safest possible way, or what’s worse, only take from others but refuse to give – thankfully, that usually doesn’t go very far).

    Yes, there is a growing movement – and some of the homeless too 🙂

    But the psychological and spiritual architecture does not yet exist to direct these impulses in the right direction, and these actions are taken against immense social pressure and economic and structural difficulty.

    I’m trying to help build the social and psychological architecture to facilitate such choices 🙂

    People drop out today, but society does not appreciate the spiritual significance of this – and that’s a big problem, both fir society’s understanding of the true ends of life, and for the drop outs themselves.

    Besides, all earthly beings are somehow tied to the material. In my ancestral worldview, the material is tied to the aesthetic aspects of human life without which life would be empty and to the chthonic forces of the Earth that nourishes us.

    Definitely. What I am criticizing is a preoccupation with the material on its own, without that extra spiritual dimension.

    Alan Watts used to say that we call ourselves materialists but it seems to him that we positively hate and despise matter because we make it so ugly and treat it so shabbily.

    Obviously, a beautiful building is spirit expressed through the medium of material – and perhaps that might be the true love of materialism 🙂

    And I am certainly not against the proper enjoyment of material things either – I am opposing the idea that the primary activity of human life ought to be securing the means to physical survival, as modern bourgeois society would have it, rather than focusing on things that have intrinsic meaning – what might be called the spiritual dimension.

    In his book, Aristotle attempts to address most aspects of human life, in a practical way. Thus, he will touch upon leisure as well but it doesn’t constitute the bulk of his teachings, nor does he zero in on it and it is definitely not something he “prizes above all else”. So it is questionable whether “Greeks prized leisure above all”, as you said in the previous thread, to which I responded: “The Greeks prized arete the most”. I will not impose this opinion, since there are several Greek schools and I don’t want to impose my surely limited perception and understanding.

    Ok, now you’re just pulling an AP and denying what’s plainly in sight 🙂

    Aristotle plainly says that leisure is the highest form of life towards which all our other activities are directed.

    We work – secure the means to survive materially – in order to enjoy things we do for their own sake with no ulterior motive, which are leisure activities.

    Of course, he recognized excellence in other areas of life as well, the political realm, war, and craftsmanship, which I’d certainly agree with, but he held out the highest honors for leisure.

    I’d like to restore that 🙂

  126. Onward and forward to other matters –

    I read a very enjoyable book recently, called The Wilder Shores of Love by Lesley Blanch, apparently a noted English “feminist” and bohemian of the early 20th century.

    It details the lives of several remarkable, highly intelligent, and strong-willed European women who found adventure, love, and spiritual revitalization in the Muslim Near East of the 19th century.

    Even though Lesley is described as a feminist, I put it in quotation marks because her feminism is a far cry from the kind of bitter anti-male resentment and hatred of genuine femininity that the feminist movement has declined into recently.

    Leslie, and the women she describes, all clearly loved men and genuine, benevolent masculinity (not the kind of toxic macho posturing that represents an equivalent decline in the male sphere and is a feature of modern nihilism).

    All the men here, Western and Eastern, are strong and capable, but gentle, kind, honorable, respectful of women, and noble. The women are “feminist” heros because they did not live conventional lives, but were remarkably bold and took to a life of adventure in unstable and primitive parts of the world, and acquitted themselves with verve and finesse in dangerous situations.

    The first chapter focuses on Isabella Burton, the wife of Sir Captain Richard Burton, the great Victorian explorer, adventurer, writer, and translator – Burton is a figure of perennial fascination to me, and I was enthralled by his account of his journey to Mecca disguised as a Muslim.

    Photographs reveal Richard Burton to have one of the most striking and fascinating faces of any human being we have records of.

    Later chapters detail liasons with Arab chieftans – one of the great beauties of her time, Jane Digby, later in life married an Arab chief and lived in nomadic encampments and had all sorts of fascinating adventures in the desert, and was a regular visitor to the Burtons when he was British consul in Damascus. Her Arab chieftain husband was a benevolent and chivalrous man who treated her with respect and reverence, and Digby was loved by her adopted tribe – her husband was part of the old honorable Arab culture that was rapidly vanishing even then (a fact noted sadly by Digby and Burton), and today is replaced by a sullen and resentful Arab world. For her part, Digby was quite pleased to treat her husband with the outward forms of submissiveness and respect demanded by Oriental custom of the time – even while being quite bold and independent. It seems to have been an amicable match that made them both happy.

    Another fascinating figure is Isabelle Eberhardt, a Russian-Swiss woman who disguised herself as a man and wandered the North African desert, exploring it’s remote reaches and dusty, ruined towns, becoming a trusted confidant and valued conversationalist of several high-ranking French colonial officials, and forming a long-lasting bond of affection with a Touareg.

    Eberhardt was also something of a mystic and a spiritual seeker, and wrote a fascinating Desert Diary full of arresting sketches of desert life and her own musings on the spiritual dimension of the desert – well worth reading in it’s own right.

    Perhaps my least favorite chapter – although that’s just because I always prefer reading about adventures in the desert 🙂 – was about a French woman who was captured by pirates and sold into the harem of the Ottoman court, where she rose to a position of prominence and influence, which she wielded in several critical moments to the advantage of her native France.

    I realize this is an alt-right site (but is it really?), and some here may find tales of European women liasing with Muslims and Arabs distasteful, but it’s important to remember this was a time of total European dominance of the region and with non of the sordid issues surrounding Muslim immigration into Europe today – and these women did so on their own terms and without engaging in any forms of self-abasement or loss of self-respect, and the Arabs and Muslims for their part behaved with benevolence and nobility. It would be wrongheaded to see those distant times through the lens of modern race relations.

    I shall leave off with this beautiful quote from the introduction, calculated to infuriate the APs of the world –

    Perhaps, too, this very passivity offered something which was vanishing from the West, something to which they were all subconsciously drawn. Repose : the Eastern climate of contemplation, of Kif, of nothingness, brought to its quintessential state of voluptuous, animal stillness was a state wholly alien to the West. Even leisure, an entirely different thing, was vanishing. From afar, a mighty whirring could be heard approaching: it was the roar and clatter of a million mechanical devices gaining momentum, forming an overwhelming uproar of ingenuity and efficiency: speed and action for their own sake. This onslaught was to hammer at Western mankind until there were nerves, but no senses left.

    Kif, contemplation, gilded opium pills and the drowsy peace of senses lulled by satiety … these things the East still offered, and some, if not all of my subjects, were, I believe, aware of this. In the East, there was still ‘world enough and time’ to be women .

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  127. Mikhail says:

    A mint take down including the comments section –

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  128. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    Although I’m in basic accordance with your view here, one still has to take Jesus at his word, that:

    “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

    In other words, only those that completely submit themselves to the will of God will be ultimately saved. It appears that the pleasures afforded by riches will lure many into a life that is not firstly God centered, as I think Aaron has been trying to emphasize. But as you correctly point out, there is a way out of this morass, because:

    “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    So the most important tools in ones journey to salvation are a repentant heart and a belief in a merciful God.

    • Replies: @AP
  129. @Barbarossa

    Perhaps you might want to look into the flavonoids.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5465813/

    You can buy concentrated preparations.

    I also use ginger tea with honey and lemon when I have minor colds.

  130. @AP

    AP, are you a Protestant or do you come from Protestant milieu?

    Your focus on “poor living more sinful lives” etc – whether you want or not – to some extent elevates wealth/material status to a proxy for moral/ethical status. That has reminded me about Calvin predestination theory, a theory which says that God has already chosen and this choice is expressed through his grace for the blessed, and lack of it for the damned. For some reason, it was further interpreted as the wealth being the sign of the grace of God, or of being chosen.

    The Church teaches that wealth is not as important as faith and use of that wealth in accordance with faith.

    This sounds very Protestant to me.
    Non-Protestant Churches do not teach that, as they stress that deeds are as important as faith is, and MORE IMPORTANT THAN WEALTH, as the Letter of St James – a standard Catholic retort to Protestant “only faith” argument – commands (James 2:14-19):

    14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

    18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

    Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

    You have to be careful not to contravene the verse 16, by twisting it for example in this way

    “Go in peace, sinner; now work, and keep warm and well fed”

    St James does not connect basic needs with working/not working status, so it must be concluded that the basic level of charity is COMMANDED WITHOUT CAVEATS. That is so since all Earth ultimately belongs to God, which means your wealth too ultimately belongs to him. The expression of God’s sovereignty over your wealth is the Book of Job.

    Your problem is that there is really nothing in Scripture which connects the poor and sin. The predestination theory got around that with the concept of “visible God’s grace” aka wealth. But your argument only partly relies on the concept of faith – you try empirically connect sin and the poor, but that is not scriptural – even if true in the specific reality of capitalist America: this is what I would call naturalization of religion.

  131. @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    From afar, a mighty whirring could be heard approaching: it was the roar and clatter of a million mechanical devices gaining momentum, forming an overwhelming uproar of ingenuity and efficiency: speed and action for their own sake.

    [MORE]

    Many of the current world pathologies are due to the humans leaving their assigned part of Creation and joining the Machine. The Technosphere rising will upend and transform human nature. The Technosphere advent is interlinked with the lust for profit that is characteristic of Capitalism. At the time that is describing in the book you referred to, the East did not yet go through the birth pains of Renaissance, the teenage years of the pre-industrial age and the early adulthood of the Belle Époque industrial (so-called Moderne) society. The East was still a Civilization of normal, non-transformed human beings.

    The West embraced Capitalism, built the Machine which evolved into the Technosphere, had two great industrial wars and nearly ended up having the third and final one. That is a lot of (vain ?) effort and sacrifice. That is why the West and those who joined into its system are today tired, demoralized and unfit for childbirth.

    We will still go through a lot of suffering. But one day either we will transcend the Machine, or the Technosphere will transcend us. For humankind as a species, there appears to be no middle ground.

  132. @Another Polish Perspective

    In this Calvinist perspective, you annoyance with HeavilyMarbledSteak would of course be justified, since he would refuse his predestination by refusing to claim his wealth by heavy work. It is like he would prefer to be a damned one…

  133. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    You are absolutely correct. It’s very nice to see that the only devout Orthodox Christian here agrees with me as I argue with apostates and atheists about a faith they have chosen to abandon or to oppose. Thanks for the nice confirmation that I am on the right track.

  134. Wokechoke says:

    Is Glinski a Lithuanian aristocratic name? One of the patronymic of Ivan Grozny’s ancestors? The the article this dyke recommends killing grandma.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  135. @AP

    I believe you are right about Mr Hack being a good Orthodox Christian. However, morality and ethics are not the monopoly of a certain creed. It is part and parcel of the deep, true, human nature. It is simply the best we have to offer as a species.

    It is not the religion that makes people good or bad. It is the opposite: a good person makes their religion better, a bad person makes their religion* worse.

    And one last thing, God is not religion. God is the ground of being, the beginning and the end to it all. God is impossible to describe or circumscribe into a human belief system.

    *(Although it is not a religion, I include Atheism among belief systems because one has to believe that there’s no God to be an Atheist. There are moral and ethical people among the Atheists too. Varlam Shalamov was one of these.)

    • Agree: Yahya, AnonfromTN
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @A123
    , @Mikel
  136. @AP

    things such as committing acts of violence such as assault or rape, or engaging in debasement such as drug abuse.

    And on these measures the poor (in general) do poorly compared to the rich.

    I am extremely doubtful that this is correct. It might be more accurate to say that the rich are less likely to prosecuted for these things. It’s worth mentioning that drug abuse may be often be perfectly legal while no less debasing. Higher income groups can afford to feed and cover up an addiction or abuse and violence more convincingly than a poorer person, but a veneer of functionality or affluence can often mask terrible things.

    An extreme case that comes to mind is someone like Epstein. He is an outlier in scale but money and a good lawyer washes away a multitude of sins.

    As the below article points out, we aren’t in the crack epidemic of the 80’s anymore.

    https://www.turnbridge.com/news-events/latest-articles/socioeconomic-status-and-drug-use/#

    • Agree: AnonfromTN
    • Thanks: RSDB
    • Replies: @AP
  137. @Ivashka the fool

    I agree. I like to call it the Great Hamster Wheel of Capitalism. It spins furiously but gets nowhere. In fact, I’d say that the lack of direction and the hyperactivity are in a symbiotic relationship. The latter masks the former.

    Titties and sadism will keep the masses from having too many inconvenient questions bubble up in their minds!

  138. @Another Polish Perspective

    I’m inclined to suggest to both AP and AaronB the appropriate penance for their argument; each finding a homeless man and buying him a really good deli sandwich! Don’t forget a bag of chips and a cup o’ joe!

  139. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Who’s writing about “morality and ethics” here anyway, at least in a general sense? I was writing about “salvation” from the viewpoint of Christianity in a very specific sense. Of course, other religious systems do provide ethical and moral guideposts too, some even “salvation”, but I chose to frame my comment within the Christian subject matter that AP and Aaron were discussing. In fact, Aaron had prefaced a lot of his recent commentary within the framework of recently reading a lot of material written by the Church Fathers.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  140. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    I think that both you and Aaron possess some aspect of the whole truth as far as this matter goes. Aaron tends to emphasize those that go astray in their relationship with earthly goods, whereas you tend to see the few individuals who rely on God to guide them with the dispossession of their wealth to help humanity. Both viewpoints are accurate but don’t reflect the whole truth, IMHO. There really doesn’t need to be much controversy here?

  141. AP says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    I knew a guy in Moscow who worked as a liaison between the Russian government security services and the Russian Orthodox Church. He used to talk about drunken parties in the monasteries, with a stream of prostitutes being supplied to the monks.

    Note that I am describing, not judging 🙂

  142. @songbird

    Only Sikh Majority Punjab India Has a High Chance of Becoming Sikh Minority in next 20 yrs

    At first glance, this seemed improbable but the Indian census seems to back it up.

    The 2010s saw a *massive* emigration wave out of Punjab, often Sikhs to Canada. The Indian 2023 census should probably still show a slight Sikh majority but the 2030s could very well be when they fall into absolute minority status, even before Whites in America.

    Given this background, his racebaiting is almost comical. He already belongs to a stateless people. Now on the cusp of becoming minorities in their historic homeland. Impossible to take clowns like that seriously given their own precarious position(s).

    [MORE]
    To be frank, I wouldn’t spend too much time on either singh or yahya. Neither is particularly intelligent and both are aggrieved by racial inferiority complex. FWIW, if you have a Twitter acc or a Telegram acc I would be interested in following it. This blog is probably slowly dying anyway. If I wanted to read some 3rd worlder’s /pol/tard take I could just go to the original source.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    , @songbird
  143. AP says:
    @Barbarossa

    “And on these measures the poor (in general) do poorly compared to the rich.”

    I am extremely doubtful that this is correct [that in modern society poor are more sinful then middle and upper classes]. It might be more accurate to say that the rich are less likely to prosecuted for these things

    Then you are mistaken. I posted numerous citations that support my claim. A simple test: are you safer in a poor area or in a non-poor area? Compare Detroit to its suburbs, the south to the north side of Chicago, West Virginia to rural Massachusetts.

    It’s worth mentioning that drug abuse may be often be perfectly legal while no less debasing

    Possible, but the rates are still lower. And a glass of wine with one’s dinner or even a bit of coke at a weekend party is very different from a life revolving around such use or devoted to it.

    Though it seems to me that fake caricature of middle class supposedly devoting their lives to making $$$ might not be different in essence from the reality of some of the poor devoting their lives to their pleasures.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    , @Barbarossa
  144. @AP

    Similarly, I know a guy who was a logger for many years and while he was on a job logging some woods owned by a local Trappist monastery. They found a cache of the nastiest porno mags imaginable hidden in the woods near the monastery.

    I’m not saying this in judgement or mockery, but it’s a fundamental truth that we are imperfect humans subject to the worst excesses and hypocrisy. In the end, we should support those who strive, love and forgive those who fail, and hold to account those who enable and encourage the corruption of others.

    I’ve been to the monastery many times and it is undoubtedly a place of great peace with many holy men therein. It is a place which exudes in a palpable way, a sense of deep peace, but even there will surface the worst human imperfections.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  145. @Mr. Hack

    My reply was to AP. The discussion of AP and Aaron was a discussion centered around ethical and moral teachings of Jesus. That is why I wrote that mature ethics and morality are simply a demonstration of a mature human being whether religious or not. Salvation is the byproduct of mature ethics and morality. Therefore, I believe that Salvation too cannot be a monopoly of a specific creed. But then it just my own subjective opinion.

  146. @AP

    Oh I am not surprised. That is one of the reasons that led me away from the Church. It is a human institution despite all talk to the contrary. Being human it is deeply flawed. However, a lot of Church going people and a lot of priests are good people. As I wrote in my reply above, good people make their religion better, bad people make their religion worse. It is all about humans manifesting consciousness. We call it Mind…

  147. @Barbarossa

    Some people have a complex and a twisted take on spiritual things. They basically use it as kind of hard drug. Those people are also more likely to both exhibit deviant sexual behavior and join spiritual groups and monastic communities.

    [MORE]

    An interesting take on this subject.

    🙂

  148. Yahya says:
    @Thulean Friend

    To be frank, I wouldn’t spend too much time on either singh or yahya

    You are too much of a coward to even insult people to their face. Just the usual passive-agressiveness; characteristic of females but also racist weaklings like yourself, songbird and S.

    You have to be the weirdest character I’ve yet encountered on this site (and that’s saying a lot). Utu had it right when he called you a “bot-and-troll incarnation”.

    But you and songbird go have your fun together on Telegram and Twitter. He can LARP as a German and you can pretend to be a Pole.

  149. AP says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    “ The Church teaches that wealth is not as important as faith and use of that wealth in accordance with faith.”

    This sounds very Protestant to me.

    What it sounds like to you is irrelevant. I supported what I wrote by only using Catholic and Orthodox sources. And it was what I have heard in sermons at my local Greek Catholic church. Tbh I haven’t even read the Protestant literature on wealth and poverty. But using Biblical quotes out of context to support some point seems to be a very Protestant approach.

    Non-Protestant Churches do not teach that, as they stress that deeds are as important as faith is, and MORE IMPORTANT THAN WEALTH

    What do you think I meant when I wrote “use of that wealth in accordance with faith?”

    Your problem is that there is really nothing in Scripture which connects the poor and sin

    And why should it? In the pre-Christian world of Jesus’s time there indeed probably was no connection between the poor and sin.

    The predestination theory

    Nowhere did I imply agreement with predestination.

    To observe that the poor tend to sin a lot more than the non-poor in modern Western society is not to imply that the poor are predestined to sin. Indeed on numerous occasions I have stated that we must intervene to help them not to sin, to bring them into the light, and not allow them to wallow in their sins as AaronB would want.

    I have stated that Christianity has completely changed people and downstream of that, has fundamentally altered the nature of society. Our Christian (or immediately post-Christian) society takes Christian virtues for granted and supports them, makes it easier to follow them (indeed, makes it socially unacceptable not to). This is something to be celebrated. How fortunate we are to be living in a place where a Christian way of life does not result in persecution. Accordingly, working to undermine or overthrow this society as progressives often try to do, or celebrate its malcontents, is bad.

    This is not to say that we have achieved perfection; we are far from it. But the task of Christians in a Christian society with regards to that society (I am not addressing one’s personal works) is to further perfect it and to protect it, rather than to undermine or destroy it.

  150. A123 says: • Website

    Response to previous thread:

    @LatW

    Frankly, I believe this Ukrainian demographic catastrophe (the forced exile of so many Ukrainians due to war) is so unjust and so dangerous that there needs to be some kind of an international effort (beyond just the help for the refugees) to mitigate this and help them repatriate. I think the unprecedented nature and the sheer scale calls for it.

    Elite EU leadership is about maximizing migrant inflows. Why would they help repatriate?

    The goal of EU corporations & banks is preventing repatriation. Can you name any significant German party (other than AfD) that would lead a return effort? Certainly, all three members of Scholz Traffic Light coalition would strenuously block such an idea.

    Pushing Zelensky to seek an immediate armistice would be ideal for repatriation. It would protect infrastructure in Ukraine’s West. What is Elite EU leadership doing? They are trying to push heavy tanks into they fray, extending the fight, and making repatriation less likely.

    The whole thing feels like controlled opposition. Or, “Good Cop / Bad Cop”.
    ____

    Knowing that Europe’s leaders are against repatriation.

    How would an international effort form & function?

    The U.S. is going to be an internally focused “basket case” for the next couple years. So, no leadership available here. There is always the possibility to extract some cash, but that is different than authority towards a result.

    I suppose China & Turkey could run such an international effort. However, I am not sure they would be willing to step up in that manner. It would be highly visible with little opportunity for reward. And, they both have their own fractious domestic issues.
    ___

    As long as Europe’s Elites are aggressively pro migration, refugees with Ukrainian identity documents are highly likely to stay. Many of the ~⅔ genuine Ukrainians you want to repatriate. And, almost all of the ~⅓ MENA origin using forgeries.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @LatW
  151. @Barbarossa

    1. George Washington’s rules civility: never give medical advice to anybody unless you are employed as their doctor.

    2. Roger Federer’s competition guide: if sleep were a performance enhancing drug, it would be 20X more powerful than the second best performance drug.

    Battle of the Nations
    Russia Denmark

  152. @AP

    I live in one of the very poorest counties in NY and I never lock my doors at all. I would say that my level of safety is extremely high, certainly much higher than a great many wealthier counties in the state.

    For what it’s worth I would take some of the statistics with a grain of salt. A poor pervert may molest their family members but a rich one can go on a child sex vacation in Cambodia. A richer person can afford to more circumspect in these matters while the poor make less pretense about it.

    Alcoholism and hard drug addiction are very prevalent in the upper strata, it’s not just the occasional glass of wine! Just look at Hollywood for evidence of that. Hollywood gets constant scrutiny from the tabloid angle, but the same stuff comes out periodically any time there is any expose of the upper class. Would you really argue that our societal decadence in not a top-down phenomenon?

    I’m not saying that either the rich or poor are worse, just that my own observation has been that the very worst personality traits are present in both groups. When the materially better off are callous and brutal they often veneer it in a very urbane way, but the effect is no less cruel than the desperate cruelty of a homeless man on the street. Society implicitly offers forgiveness to the former while condemning the latter, for the former is at least a “success” while the other is a “failure” in the great material game.

  153. @AP

    What it sounds like to you is irrelevant. I supported what I wrote by only using Catholic and Orthodox sources.

    It is not irrelevant. Maybe you should try to find what your religion says in its entire complexity. When I was a child, I thought – judging from these thick missals in church – that the entire Bible is read within the liturgical year. But this is not true. A lot of Bible is never discussed in the church.
    It should also be worrying to you that you can be credibly – such is my opinion – taken for a Protestant.

    I supported what I wrote by only using Catholic and Orthodox sources.

    If you meant referring only to these books of Bible which are part of the Catholic and Orthodox canons, but are not included in the Protestant canon, you did not.

    What do you think I meant when I wrote “use of that wealth in accordance with faith?”

    The concept of faith is much broader than the concept of deeds. You could mean funding missions abroad (what Protestants like to do), or you could mean funding either reconstruction or construction of new, ornate church buildings (what the Orthodox and the Uniates like to do, at least judging from what I have seen in the pre-war Ukraine). But all that is not what St James meant. Well, he probably meant deeds generally as following Torah law (Letter of St James belongs to Judaeo-Christian part of NT), but as he did single out helping the destitute people in specific, we cannot have doubts concerning this particular verse of James 2:15-16.

    I have stated that Christianity has completely changed people and downstream of that, has fundamentally altered the nature of society.

    I wouldn’t fully agree with that “Christianity has completely changed people” , since paganism partly merged with Christianity. Cult of St Mary is a clear infusion of Scripture-foreign spirituality to Christianity, which again would mean that there is a conflict between Christian cult and Scripture, a conflict which often resonates through that what you named

    using Biblical quotes out of context to support some point

    You can rarely be sure whether someone just proposes a new reading or tries to adopt Scripture to his position predetermined by his pagan-related concerns.

  154. A123 says: • Website
    @Ivashka the fool

    *(Although it is not a religion, I include Atheism among belief systems because one has to believe that there’s no God to be an Atheist.

    I concur.

    Atheists have faith that nothing is beyond.
    ___

    Is Wokeness a religion? A cult? Or, at least a belief system?

    It is driven by faith & dogma. Questioning the articles of “Woke Faith” is treated not unlike heresy and apostasy.

    The parallel is worth exploring.

    PEACE 😇

  155. @Barbarossa

    I believe you are correct. History is written by the victors and social norms are prescribed and enforced by the powerful. If a society is corrupt, it is because the powerful and rich are corrupt. As comrade Trotsky used to say ; “a fish always rots starting by its head”.

    The elites set the trends, the plebs follow according to their (lack of) understanding. And many a redneck I’ve known were way more humane and well behaved than wannabe Paris bobos (a most despicable type of human being). Basically, the redneck stereotypes presented in the Hollywood movies are a projection of elites’ perverted complex of superiority.

    Have no idea whether the Hood Coon stereotype of the inner city Negro is a similar projection. I haven’t known any of these types, but here again, the elites encourage a certain type of behavior in these people through gangster rap (or is it now trap house ?) music, fashion and group attitudes. Nothing good comes from any of these for anyone, but elite types who sign and promote these people make moneys out of their decay. And it allows to keep them disorganized and at each other’s throats, bringing their demographics down.

    Society is built to suit the rich. A sick society is built to suit the sick types of rich people.

  156. @Another Polish Perspective

    The good example that Christianity as such does not change society much, is the Late Roman Empire. This state, before and after Constantine the Great, substantially did not change. Circa forty years after the Edict of Milan, Julian the Apostate wasn’t opposed by any Christian revolt or a Christian claimant to imperial throne.

    As for Calvin, I once read about his original theory. As soon as I have read about the fixed number of the chosen (circa 6000), I started suspecting him of some gnostic inspiration.

  157. @Another Polish Perspective

    Some even see Calvinism as a form of Hinduism in that that it creates “spiritual castes” of the elect and the damned.

    http://www.examiningcalvinism.com/files/Complaints/Charge_Hinduism.html

    “I have always confronted Calvinists that their belief system is similar to Hinduism. Calvinism sets up a spiritual caste system. There are the haves and the have nots. Some Calvinists even treat the non-elect as the untouchables. They usually don’t like it when I say these things but it’s their belief system not mine….

    (…)

    One of the significant issues looming, is the question of why one person is born Calvinistically elect, while another person is born Calvinistically non-elect. Obviously in Hinduism, the same question applies. Why is one person born into a favored caste, while another is born into a slave caste, otherwise known as the “Untouchables.” The Hindu answer is “bad karma,” in paying for the sins of past lives (i.e. reincarnation). In contrast, Calvinism simply has no answer, other than arbitrary choice”

    • Agree: AP
  158. AP says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    It is not irrelevant. Maybe you should try to find what your religion says in its entire complexity

    It’s why I post from Catholic and Orthodox sources.

    It should also be worrying to you that you can be credibly – such is my opinion – taken for a Protestant

    You should rather question your assumptions when I literally post arguments from Orthodox and Catholic sources and thinkers and you accuse these arguments of Protestantism.

    The concept of faith is much broader than the concept of deeds. You could mean funding missions abroad (what Protestants like to do), or you could mean funding either reconstruction or construction of new, ornate church buildings (what the Orthodox and the Uniates like to do, at least judging from what I have seen in the pre-war Ukraine)

    Before the war we were collecting money for orphanages and schools in church.

    he did single out helping the destitute people in specific, we cannot have doubts concerning this particular verse of James 2:15-16.

    One of the things that upset AaronB was when I insisted that the destitute need to be removed from the streets and placed in rehab facilities or hospitals, and in the last case even prison if they are a danger to themselves or to other people and there is no other recourse.

    AaronB claimed that these poor and suffering people were some kind of righteous rebels against an evil society, compared them to ancient monks, and insisted that they should be left alone. Dmitry even compared my approach to Stalinism.

    I

    wouldn’t fully agree with that “Christianity has completely changed people” , since paganism partly merged with Christianity

    Compatible parts, sure. The contrast of a society that values strength and killing and builds arenas where people watch other people being slaughtered for entertainment, versus one that values mercy and kindness and builds public hospitals reflects the radical change in values.

    conflict between Christian cult and Scripture

    There is no conflict because Scripture can only be property understood as interpreted by the Church.

    Protestants decided to interpret Scripture on their own and based on their own interpretation split from the Church and formulated their own sometimes wild ideas, such as predestination by Calvinists. Ironically these Calvinists probably read the Scriptures and know them better than most others.

  159. Sean says:

    I think it is already clear that America is not giving Ukraine what it needs to go linear offensive. Ukraine is being supplied for mounting a static battle of attrition. The US objective is a slow but sure writing down of Russian conventional capacity. Russia is actually quite happy to go slow, because their methods are infantry assault groups using low skill but highly expendable excons. The Russian offensive is already on, its low pressure to prevent Ukraine getting ATACMs, GLSDB, Gray Eagle, F16, and other things needed for deep strikes and exploitation such as Abrams.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  160. @AP

    There is no conflict because Scripture can only be property understood as interpreted by the Church.

    And who will examine the doctors ?

    The Church has censored the early Christian scripture and has also had a period of purges about the metaphysics of Trinity. Then it split into Catholic and Orthodox, and again into Catholic and Protestant, with the later dissolving into a multitude of sects. During that time, the Orthodox got a conflict between the Uniate among them and the “true Orthodox” which in Russia have then undergone a bloody Raskol which can only be compared to a spiritual Civil War between the Nikonian Church and the Old Believers.

    Compared to this the history of the CPSU is a walk in the park.

    Are you certain that your priest in your Uniate Church has the right take on the message of Jesus ? That any priest in any Church has the right take ?

    I mean, just reading the Gospel of Thomas apocryphon makes one doubt the Church interpretation of some passages. And I don’t even want to get into the role of Saint Paul (who has never met Jesus in his lifetime).

    Nothing human should be considered perfect. Despite whatever it preaches, Church is a human institution that is also subjected to corruption and decay.

    • Agree: Mikel, AnonfromTN
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  161. A123 says: • Website
    @AP

    You should rather question your assumptions when I literally post arguments from Orthodox and Catholic sources and thinkers and you accuse these arguments of Protestantism.

    As a Protestant, the defining characteristic is freedom to challenge dysfunctional church hierarchy. Especially the highest offices of the organization.

    If you are a Catholic and you speak out against the current failed Papacy, then you are a Protesting Catholic akin to Martin Luther. How much resistance makes one a Protestant, versus remaining a member of the original root organization?

    The big differences between Protestant and Catholic have little to do with personal behaviour. They are more about hierarchy and establishment. Many of the theoretically Protestant churches have become so structurally rigid and non-Biblical, they have recreated the problems that Martin Luther objected to.

    In many ways we need Protestant Schism II. The original has become soft and otherwise no longer works to the original goals. If a Protestant church sells the modern SJW equivalent of Indulgences, are they still properly Protestant? I would declare, “NO!”

    PEACE 😇

  162. AP says:
    @Barbarossa

    I live in one of the very poorest counties in NY and I never lock my doors at all. I would say that my level of safety is extremely high, certainly much higher than a great many wealthier counties in the state

    I suspect that your area’s stats might be artificially low because of a lot of Amish being off the grid. Also, some of the wealthy areas have poor living in close proximity to rich, whereas you guys are living on farms.

    For what it’s worth I would take some of the statistics with a grain of salt. A poor pervert may molest their family members but a rich one can go on a child sex vacation in Cambodia. A richer person can afford to more circumspect in these matters while the poor make less pretense about it.

    On the other hand, rich people don’t tolerate crime and have the means to get criminals arrested. So more crimes are probably reports and registered in rich or middle class areas than in poor areas.

    Do you really think there is a comparable level of crime in a WV trailer park as there is in a prosperous New England village? Setting aside the issue of race, Charles Murray wrote an entire book simply comparing poor versus wealthy Whites; the differences were really stark. It is sad and unfortunate that the wealthy have too often chosen to abandon the poor to their fate.

    Alcoholism and hard drug addiction are very prevalent in the upper strata

    It certainly exists, but is not as prevalent as among the poor.

    Would you really argue that our societal decadence in not a top-down phenomenon?

    It’s a bottom up phenomenon, in that the top no longer encourage the poor to live by the top’s correct moral code (even though they themselves have not abandoned it). About half of poor Whites have kids out of wedlock, IIRC only 20% of prosperous Whites do. So how does this come from the top? The problem with the top is that it has become too passive and tolerant. The poor aren’t encouraged to try to act like the middle and upper classes, unless they are poor people like rappers who have managed to get a lot of money while retaining their poor morals. AaronB who idolizes the poor is an extreme example.

    When the materially better off are callous and brutal they often veneer it in a very urbane way

    This is because we live in a society that is generally good and, as a consequence, cruelty and brutality are looked down upon and those who engage in it try to hide it.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
  163. @AP

    It’s why I post from Catholic and Orthodox sources.

    St Clement is a low-level source, which cannot be authoritative. Anyway, what he says is rather common sense, which should make you aware how contentious the issue of riches was in early Church.

    Or maybe for you can be – but I myself would feel much more better if you could provide me with Scriptures quotations praising material wealth and its possession.

    Even if you quote some saints, that does not automatically makes you reasoning Catholic – for me, your stance reeks of some Protestantism, just being so judgemental, trying to build “God’s city upon Earth” kind of, and through what I would call with the German word Aktionismus, a need to do sth for the sake of doing, without considering whether this doing is more good or more bad, eg. lockdowns.

    One of the things that upset AaronB was when I insisted that the destitute need to be removed from the streets and placed in rehab facilities or hospitals, and in the last case even prison if they are a danger to themselves or to other people and there is no other recourse.

    AaronB claimed that these poor and suffering people were some kind of righteous rebels against an evil society, compared them to ancient monks, and insisted that they should be left alone. Dmitry even compared my approach to Stalinism.

    I disagree with putting them in prison too lest they have committed a crime. You can offer them a choice of living in asylum if they like to, but they shouldn’t be forced too. I seem them more as the unfortunate ones than rebels but certainly some of them are the latter. You do not have a right to force “charity” upon them – you don’t want to deprive them such an important instrument of salvation as free will, do you?

    Your approach could be interpreted as pagan too, as it seems to be driven by the old Greek aristocratic morality of kalos kai agathos – of the beautiful and the good . Nowadays the expression of such morality are gated communities.

    You need to accept suffering before your eyes, and do not increase this suffering further like locking people down due to fear of possible crimes/crimes yet non-existent. Something likes that in Europe exists in Germany – it is called Sicherungsverwahrung – and it was introduced by Nazis, which kind of discredits for me the idea: they can keep you there in prison without limits after you official prison term just because they think you are “dangerous”. Germany does this despite negative judgements of ECHR in Strasbourg.

    Certainly poor people on the streets can evoke a dissonance in the rich, but this dissonance helpfully will serve them as a reminder of the common human condition, and God’s judgement upon everyone of us. Anyway, since charities have often become true businesses nowadays, I am wondering that if you don’t want to rent a room for a poor, maybe you should invite one of them to your house…?
    In this way you would be forced to confront them as human beings primarily, the thing you seem to be yearning to avoid.
    I remember there was a Catholic foundation which fostered such things, even if with the disabled people…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Arche

    • Replies: @AP
  164. S says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Gibbon famously blamed Christianity for the Fall of the Western Roman Empire, something he later regretted, as he took a lot of heat for it. However, most things, including empires, have a natural life cycle where at some point they will expire irregardless of externalities.

    The good example that Christianity as such does not change society much, is the Late Roman Empire. This state, before and after Constantine the Great, substantially did not change.

    One thing which doesn’t appear to have changed too much was the Roman love of wine. In fact, the world’s oldest still sealed bottle of wine, 4th century Roman vintage to be specific, and quite possibly bottled during Constantine’s very lifetime, is the Speyer wine bottle.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speyer_wine_bottle

    [MORE]

  165. @Barbarossa

    I live in one of the very poorest counties in NY and I never lock my doors at all.

    Just have in mind that once in a blue moon by freak chance accidents also can happen as sadly you never know all the time who may be roaming around:

    Two weeks later, he attempted to enter the home of a woman, but because her doors were locked, he walked away. Chase later told detectives that he took locked doors as a sign that he was not welcome, but unlocked doors were an invitation to come inside.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Chase

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @songbird
  166. songbird says:
    @Thulean Friend

    To be frank, I wouldn’t spend too much time on either singh or yahya.

    Honestly, I do find Singh’s occasional crudities distasteful. But I have always gotten the idea with him that it was nothing personal, that he simply enjoys contention and trolling. In another age, perhaps, he would be taunting (probably mooning) us on the battlefield, while brandishing his sword.

    [MORE]

    Perhaps, yahya would say the same of himself, but he seems more like a negative stereotype, hot-blooded and nursing a grudge forever. With him, it does seem personal, he seems to weirdly interpret everything as a personal insult (whether or not it even touches on Arabs), and I do think you are right, that it is tied to some inferiority complex. (And I would specifically say narcissism. Maybe, encouraged by his sense of entitlement due to class)

    There is this idea that having old ruins can stultify a civilization, by encouraging people to get lost in old glories. Our old friend under the new avatar, HMS, mentioned Burton. I recall that Burton wrote that proper Arabs used to scornfully call Egyptians “Children of the Pharaoh.”

    Imagine that was because they couldn’t claim the same heritage, but yahya is of both sides. It gets a little ridiculous because you enter into geo-determinism, not to mention the cold math of it. At 4600 years, I’d speculate that even the East Asian commentors are descended from the pharoahs. Of course, DNA is something different, but, in fact, we are all of us lucky not to be born into the severely inbred royalty of ancient Egypt.

    The 2010s saw a *massive* emigration wave out of Punjab, often Sikhs to Canada.

    Am fascinated by the movement of Sikhs. Only guessed it, but if I understand correctly, it is because they get some sort of priority status as “refugees.” (Did Sher Singh or his parents get this status? And wouldn’t it be at odds with the style of his posting?)

    Am ignorant about the local conditions, but it seems like a scam to me. (Are Sikhs really threatened? Would guess not.) Fascinating to contemplate. Why the priority status? Seemingly because they are a novelty, a small minority of Indians. Maybe, refugee regulations are built on a conception of the highest value being assigned to individuals, rather than groups, but it still seems like a great irony that they are weakening this exotic and unique group and helping turn them into a minority in their historic homelands.

    It is easy to perceive that cultural harm is done on both sides.

    FWIW, if you have a Twitter acc or a Telegram acc I would be interested in following it.

    Afraid I do all my sh-tposting here.

    Don’t feel scholarly enough to post to Twitter or Telegram. And while I enjoy trying to make jokes, I feel like the freebooting era of twitter is over (despite Musk), and a lot of my favorite, humorous characters on it (and there were some ingenious ones), were never welcomed back, after being banned.

    Heard also that Thomas777 was banned from Telegram, so it doesn’t seem to be a completely free platform either. No idea why he was banned, but I can somewhat guess. (something to do with the J-question)

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  167. songbird says:
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Most likely a metaphor or a mistranslation.

    I’ve read large parts of different Irish annals, and it is quite easy to perceive that there were some mistakes in translation, even though they were written by scholarly people.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  168. @songbird

    THANK YOU FOR CLEARING THAT UP!!!!

    • Replies: @songbird
  169. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Wokechoke

    Reggie Meezer
    @ReggieMeezer
    On Ukrainian social networks there are many videos of the forced mobilization that the Ukrainian policemen together with the officials of the recruiting offices are carrying out on the street,using military weapons, forcing citizens to become cannon fodder for the Zelensky regime

    [MORE]

  170. @S

    Well, I share the opinion that The Roman Empire was put to its deathbed by losing the battle of Hadrianople by ironically, East emperor, Valens. After the battle, Goths has never crossed Danube back again, thus erasing the Danube limes, roaming Balkans, and hampering East-West land communication. Another point of reference is the Vandal invasion of Africa, which cut off African grain from Italy.

    The problem with Christianity was that it started to create kind of parallel administration, bishops sometimes becoming leaders of cities. Theodosius made Christianity a state church to bind it with a state. Nevertheless, that was relatively minor problem, since local city leaders were generally pro-Roman, weren’t independent forces, and thus they weren’t in position to really negotiate either with Roman armies or the Gothic ones.

    • Thanks: S
  171. songbird says:
    @sudden death

    When I was in college, I once had a Nigerian roommate.

    [MORE]

    Got into a heated argument with him one day because he never locked the door, when we were both out. He said that he wanted the door to be open, so that his friends could borrow stuff (like a cooking pot) anytime they liked. He also said that my stuff was sh-ttier, which was objectively true, though it was still worth a lot of easy money (even just the books alone) – it was harder to carry.

    Surprise, surprise, he had his very expensive Apple laptop stolen one day. (Didn’t say anything, just enjoyed my Schadenfreude) Heard him telling his African friend that America is different than were they live in Nigeria (which puzzled and surprised me, but I think it has something to do with a lot of relatives and neighbors being around all the time, watching things).

    Anyway, I completely agree with you. We all like to live in a neighborhood where we don’t have to lock the door, but not sure there is any actual utility to keeping your door unlocked, especially if you have a doorbell – if not easy to get one.

    I can think of a lot of horror stories from people not locking their doors, and I do actually know several people that had home intruders, while they were in their houses. Luckily, only thieves. But there is some really bone-chilling stuff out there. Maybe, it is very rare, but I’d like Barbarossa to lock his doors at night.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Yahya
  172. @AP

    in that the top no longer encourage the poor to live by the top’s correct moral code

    You sincerely think that the top in the US has a correct moral code?

    I think that in many ways you are conflating exterior social order with morality. You can have the former without the latter.

    I did look through your stats from your January 20th post since I had checked out for a while. I find myself unconvinced.

    Sure, heroin use is more prevalent among the poor but that is because heroin is cheap. The upper class is abusing prescription pills. One of the markers of the opioid crisis is its’ even distribution across class.

    Divorce rate across profession is not an accurate indicator of morality. If infidelity is rampant then what does the “intact” marriage signify but a status marker?

    Richer people may also be less obese because they can afford personal trainers, liposuction, and the time necessary to obsess and take action over their appearance. They could be equally gluttonous but also be mastered by the sins of pride and vanity.

    The study on youthful sexual offenders is clear that the driving dynamic are dysfunctional families and substance abuse, which correlates to socioeconomic status but which is not primary. To reiterate my point, richer people who commit such crimes have broad resources to hush it up and keep it from being prosecuted and are thus excluded from such statistics. People in foster care or the larger social system are more likely be found out in such crimes than in closer knit families who may internally cover up such abuse, skewing the statistics in predictable ways.

    And naturally enough rich people are going to be particularly less likely to commit violent crimes than poor people. There is too much to lose in committing such crimes and society doesn’t give the free pass on violent crime to someone of means than it does to “white collar” crimes. Violent crimes are usually committed by those who feel they have little to lose.

    In any case, what Jesus preached about was not an order of social norms, but a morality that transcends that. As He said, we are called to live in Spirit and in Truth. If Jesus was invested in maintaining propriety he would have sided with the Pharisees.

    This is not to say that all dismantling of social order is good, far from it. Most revolutions set up more terror than they root out. However, I find it incredible that you seem to find our modern day social and class order to be a source of unqualified good. As Jesus also said, can a good tree give bad fruit and a bad tree good fruit?

    I also find it ludicrous to believe that the morals of our society is driven in a bottom up direction. Decadence has always historically stemmed from the upper classes. It is only mass media and the increased disposable wealth of the industrial age which has allowed decadence to become an actionable prospect for the lower and middle classes.

    I would actually argue that both the sinful in the lower and upper classes are behaving in an impeccably moral way…according to the twisted ethics of the spirit of our age. Lust, greed, gluttony etc. are being pushed from every angle in popular culture. If trailer dwellers act like low rent Kardashians than it’s no wonder. They have the same moral compass. The Kardashians just have the accolades of society because they made it big.

  173. Yahya says:
    @songbird

    What I did say, and what is true is that modern Greeks and Turks have a relatively high genetic distance for neighboring countries.

    Greeks are even more distant from Celtoids. Doesn’t stop you from taking vicarious pride in Greek accomplishments and pretending as if they belong to the same ethno-racial group as yourself. You probably don’t even have a single drop of detectable Greek ancestry, yet you presume to tell Turks, who are both descended from and genetically more related to modern and ancient Greeks; that they are just too distant from Greeks.

    Anyway, whatever the case, it is notable that the genetic distance is so high.

    It’s not high. Greeks are literally closer to Turks than just about 99% of people on the planet. On a regional PCA they plot in the same quadrant. On a global PCA they would practically be indistinguishable. That you cherry-pick France as the basis for comparison is deception par excellence.

    You are too obsessed with your cherished concept of “Europe” as a coherent ethno-racial block to understand that Greeks are closer to Turks than they are to Russians, Swedes, Englishmen, Irishmen, Germans etc. and most Europeans save for a few groups in the South.

    It’s almost as if some redneck teacher took you aside in your schooldays and said “well look it here birdie, this here Greece is located in Europe, so they are a huwite people. And this here Turkey is in Aysia, so they be folks of color down there.” And you just took this as an eternal truth and carried it with you for the rest of your life. Maybe you are just too American to understand that the world exists outside of American racial conceptions.

    But that doesn’t mean that relatedness isn’t meaningful. [To give an extreme example: if a Swede misceginates with a Nigerian, then they are literally more genetically related to a random Swede than they will be to their own kids.

    Your argument reminds me of Hitler’s idea that Slavs were “Mongolian” or “Turkoman” untermensch because they had some Asiatic genetic traces; instead of what they really were, which is people of the same racial stock as Germans, who on a global scale, were basically genetically indistinguishable.

    The East Asian admixture in Turks is not comparable to a mulatto Swede. The Turks are still 80%+ Caucasoid; how many Turks do you see with Asiatic features? Again, perhaps it is this one-drop rule you have acquired from being an American that has turned your brain into mush regarding this topic.

    Anyway, whatever the case, it is notable that the genetic distance is so high. And I don’t understand why you can’t seem to acknowledge that, and leave it at that. That was really what my original post was about.

    You’re wrong on nearly everything on this topic. You don’t understand genetics. You are ignorant about history. When I contradict your empty assertions with concrete facts; you lie, you deflect, you twist and you deceive. It is you who should admit error.

    You were right only once, towards the end when you admitted that your previous assertion that genetic distance caused tension may have been erroneous. Greek and Turkish enmity is a result of cultural and religious differences, not genetics. We can see that even with an almost identical group as Russians and Ukrainians; there is still conflict and hostility. Likewise, the English were as genetically close as you can get to the Irish, when they had their boots on them. Serbs and Croats – same in all aspects but religious sect. Indians and Pakistanis. The list goes on and on.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @AP
  174. AP says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    St Clement is a low-level source [about wealth], which cannot be authoritative

    He’s cited as the authority about wealth by both Catholic and Orthodox sources (I had posted the links earlier).

    Or maybe for you can be – but I myself would feel much more better if you could provide me with Scriptures quotations praising material wealth and its possession

    Wealth is neither praiseworthy nor worthy of condemnation. The Church teaches that what matters is how it is used.

    Here is a detailed discussion from a Catholic source:

    https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=2944

    Even if you quote some saints, that does not automatically makes you reasoning Catholic – for me, your stance reeks of some Protestantism

    I quote saints and opinions from Orthodox and Catholic thinkers, not Protestant ones. If for you this reeks of Protestantism I suggest that you review your understanding of Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

    I disagree with putting them [homeless] in prison too lest they have committed a crime

    Even if they have committed crimes they should be provided with rehab or hospitals first, but if those don’t work then prison is a last resort. Of course people who don’t commit crimes should not be incarcerated. It this is rare among homeless, petty theft is imminent among them, prostitution, selling drugs, buying drugs, trespassing, etc.

    What is wrong is to allow them to just wallow in sin and suffering in the streets.

    You do not have a right to force “charity” upon them – you don’t want to deprive them such an important instrument of salvation as free will, do you?

    A similar argument was used by American progressives to empty the psychiatric hospitals. This was very sad.

    Do you think that the Church’s opposition to assisted suicide deprives people of free will also?

    in Germany – it is called Sicherungsverwahrung – and it was introduced by Nazis, which kind of discredits for me the idea: they can keep you there in prison without limits after you official prison term just because they think you are “dangerous”

    Sounds like sensible policy. Nazis also were the first to limit public smoking in order to prevent second hand smoke; despite their evil in other areas they weren’t bad for public health.

    Certainly poor people on the streets can evoke a dissonance in the rich, but this dissonance helpfully will serve them as a reminder of the common human condition

    You don’t think that it is sick to allow such suffering of human beings, so that it can serve as a reminder to others?

    “We’ll let you sleep in the streets and will look the other way as you rob your peers or engage in petty theft to support the heroin habit that has already given you Hep C and HIV because we value your free will, your freedom and because your life will serve us as a reminder of the human condition.”

    This is the kind of cruel decadence of AaronBs and California bureaucrats.

    I am wondering that if you don’t want to rent a room for a poor, maybe you should invite one of them to your house…?
    In this way you would be forced to confront them as human beings primarily, the thing you seem to be yearning to avoid.

    I suspect that I know far more poor people far better then you or anyone you have ever met. I know their stories, their families, etc. (I worked at an urban hospital and still consult at a clinic and take time talking to patients).

  175. RSDB says:
    @Mikel

    (I do think that there might be some innate poverty-immorality link but not that your data demonstrates it)

    The problem is– what is immorality here? We all know murdering someone is wrong. What about educating someone else’s children in perversion and lies? How many bad schoolteachers, bad professors, or bad university administrators are homeless?

    Or- we know the poor receive abortions more than the rich, certainly*. But, of abortionists themselves, how many are poor? Do they show up in murder statistics? The vast administrative and legal structure that exists to support them? People who give money to these organizations?

    I’ve read commenter Twinkie describe the world of Capitol Hill, to paraphrase, as a place where incompetence, greed, and treason come together and fructify, and he has also said that unmistakable treason was being winked at when he worked in the defense industry. Are congressional staffers holding out tin cups on the streets of DC? ADA programmers?

    Read the article Barbarossa linked on drug use: https://www.turnbridge.com/news-events/latest-articles/socioeconomic-status-and-drug-use/# I found it shocking; you might at least find it interesting.

    Were they virtually condemned to go to hell?

    No. AP is right. They have, however, added responsibilities relative to their wealth, which require supernatural grace to meet. Fortunately “supernatural” doesn’t necessarily mean “rare”.

    [MORE]

    I think I know what AP is getting at, which is that in cases of alcoholism etc. one must admit fault in order to improve rather than blaming society, even if “society” is partly to blame, and it’s not fair to the sufferer either to deny him agency or to suggest that it is better for him not to change at all. However, when this argument has come to inferring degree of sinfulness from crime statistics something has come off the rails.

    It’s possible to be homeless out of saintliness, as in the case of St. Benedict Labre. I don’t think it’s common.

    *Although the Brookings Institute argues the reverse: https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/26_class_gaps_unintended_pregnancy.pdf
    Actually pretty interesting. Something to think about.

    • Replies: @Mikel
  176. RSDB says:
    @AP

    It’s why I post from Catholic and Orthodox sources.

    Can you find a Catholic or Orthodox source that posits that the poor are worse people than the rich?

    Can you find a Catholic or Orthodox source which puts forward a method for the quantification of sinfulness?

    Canonized or beatified sources preferred, but not required.

    If you are not saying that, you should be aware that it is likely that impression of your meaning to which people are replying.

    [MORE]

    As for public policy decisions, other people here, including you, are probably more qualified to discuss them than am I– although that doesn’t always stop me from opining. I primarily object here to using arguments from the relative quantified sinfulness of different groups of people.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    , @AP
  177. Mikel says:
    @AP

    They misunderstand it when they don’t read the entire passage, and as a result get a false meaning based on a snippet. Here is the full one:

    Thank you for providing a larger part of the passage (albeit not the full one). But unfortunately I don’t see how the sentence you have highlighted contradicts the clear meaning of the previous one.

    There is no logical connection between the sentence “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” and rich people being able to enter the Kingdom of God after he had already declared that this was more difficult than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle (arguably the largest animal and the smallest hole known to Jesus’ contemporaries).

    The sentence you have highlighted is just the standard proclamation of God’s omnipotence in the Abrahamic religions but the earlier sentence recalled by Matthew, who is supposed to be a direct witness of the conversation, is a specific statement about who will be able to enter the Kingdom of that omnipotent God and how extremely difficult it will be for those who don’t renounce their riches.

    In fact, if one is to doubt what Jesus really meant with what Matthew put in his mouth (and let’s not forget, the Church decided to validate as his real words), it is more helpful to read the part of the passage before those words:

    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

    21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

    22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

    23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2019&version=KJV

    In other words, even virtuous people who had committed no sin would not be worthy of entering Heaven, according to Jesus, if they didn’t abandon their wealth and embrace poverty. If anything, the full context of the passage strengthens rather than weakens Jesus’ threat to rich people. Not that I sympathize with everything HMS has been saying but Matthew 19 looks like a total vindication of his ideal of poverty. It’s little wonder that early Christians who read these passages and tried to follow them led lives of renunciation to earthly concerns.

    This full passage, by the way, is depicted in the Hollywood epic film The Greatest Story Ever Told. When I watched this part of the movie not long ago I remember feeling the same uneasiness as in my childhood. This virtuous man who went to Jesus asking for spiritual advice only received a terrible threat because he was unwilling to abandon his family and comfortable life.

    That Church officials have later tried to embellish or distort a passage that everybody is able to understand with no difficulty does not impress me much, to be honest. They did the same with cardinal commandments when they supported wars, crusades, plunder and immoral regimes.

    • Replies: @AP
  178. Sher Singh says:
    @songbird

    No refugee status or ‘historic homeland in which you become a minority’. Not going to bother debunking or contextualizing the percentages & tfr data.

    Remember that Thulean supports the BJP and is angry at the repeated political defeats it’s faced.

    At the hands of Sikhs no less.

    Will say that Sikh tfr is likely higher than Hindu & possibly Muslim when controlling for socioeconomic status, but anything below 5 is nothing to write home about.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @A123
  179. Mikel says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    I include Atheism among belief systems because one has to believe that there’s no God to be an Atheist.

    I disagree. Absent any evidence or direct experience, the default assumption of the rational invidual is that there is no God. There is no particular belief system behind the belief that the Turtle Ninjas are fictional creatures. Unless one considers simple common sense to be a belief system, that is.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    , @A123
  180. Yahya says:
    @songbird

    When I was in college, I once had a Nigerian roommate.

    Could this be the fellow who beat you and lodged a permanent chip on your shoulder re, blacks?

    Would explain a lot of your odd comments over the years.

  181. RSDB says:
    @Barbarossa

    That was a fascinating article, thanks!

    I hate posting on topics like this, partly because there are so many more qualified people, partly because most of the topics we discuss are discussed to death elsewhere, partly because posting on a topic about the soul makes me feel like I should be a particularly devout, good, or knowledgeable person to discuss it, which I am not, and partly because all this effort is wasted because nobody ever changes his mind on here.

    However, someone posts something really interesting like this and that makes it worthwhile.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Yahya
  182. @AP

    Do you think that the Church’s opposition to assisted suicide deprives people of free will also?

    No, of course not. Suicide should never be too easy, and since it should be a free decision – the German name for it is “Freitod”/Free death, it is better than such a decision will be expressed by action, not just words. As long as you can eat, you can probably kill yourself by some poison.

    Sounds like sensible policy. Nazis also were the first to limit public smoking in order to prevent second hand smoke; despite their evil in other areas they weren’t bad for public health.

    Again, deeming someone “dangerous” from behind the desk is not about health. You think too much in terms of “hygiene” etc. Would you like eugenic movement too? You cannot usurp the competence of God (here: judging future) – why not kill a person instead of keeping him forever locked anyway since you “know” they will be criminal forever? It is extremely demoralizing to be kept in prison after your term ended. Sicherungsverwahrung is an example of the bad side of the German civilization, and of typical German paternalism (“Elites/state/know better”), and of true lack of shame for Nazism INSIDE Germany. Sicherungsverwahrung does not exist in non-German Europe AFAIK.

    You don’t think that it is sick to allow such suffering of human beings, so that it can serve as a reminder to others?

    Being a reminder to others is secondary to their own decision to stay on the street.

    • Replies: @AP
  183. @Mikel

    Do you see magnetic radiation?
    Do you see the earth circling the sun ?
    Or does it seem to be the opposite ?
    Do you see photons with their wavelengths or colored light?
    The solid objects we hold in our hands are made of 99,9999…. % void and yet appear solid.
    And this void isn’t really empty, because absent interference, it manifests quantum foam from the quantum field.
    Quantum foam which might in the final analysis be seen as much information as it is energy and which ends-up forming matter.
    Quantum fields which permeate the whole Universe.
    A Universe full of undetectable Black Matter.
    Nothing in this reality is identical to itself beyond a Planck time scale and yet we identify objects.
    You are not an individual, but a complex colony of specialized cells.
    These cells die and are produced by the million without you even noticing.
    Except for the neurons, most cells in your body have changed since you were born, and yet you’re still Mikel.
    A lot of phenomena in this world of ours are not seen with the naked eye or heard of with the natural audition.
    A lot more are opposite to what our common sense dictates.
    Our senses are lacking in perception.
    So yes, your common sense is a belief system, a very crude one and on a purely physical grounds at that.
    We call it Ignorance.

    • Agree: Barbarossa, Sher Singh
  184. Mikel says:
    @RSDB

    The problem is– what is immorality here?

    Good question. But my impression that there might be an innate connection comes from my having lived in different countries and observed how a correlation exists between relative poverty and lack of moral rectitude. In Latin America, specifically, it is not difficult to see how a society that totally lacks trust and where lie and deceit are prevalent is unable to reach prosperity due to the huge hurdle imposed by those social habits. They are often also accompanied by aggressiveness and low impulse control. However, I have met quite decent poor people and very indecent rich people in those countries too. I have myself had a couple of periods of involuntary poverty in my life due to excessive risk taking so things are complicated, as always with human and social affairs.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool, AP
  185. Yahya says:
    @RSDB

    nobody ever changes his mind on here.

    This is only true of the commentors who are engaged in the death struggle of winning the internet argument.

    People who are outside of the immediate conversation are more likely to find this conversation fruitful. They are less beholden to the commitment bias. For example, I used to covertly agree with AP’s take that the poor were more prone to sinful behavior such as drug abuse. But the arguments and facts presented by others have changed my mind. I found it easy to do so because I took no position publicly.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Thanks: RSDB
  186. AP says:
    @Barbarossa

    This post stated that more affluent young people used drugs and alcohol more often and therefore claimed that they were at greater risk od addiction. But actual rates of binge drinking and abuse are lower, as highlighted in this more recent study:

    https://sunrisehouse.com/addiction-demographics/socioeconomic-groups/

    [MORE]

    “About 80% of upper-income survey respondents reported drinking alcohol, compared with approximately 50% of lower-income respondents.”

    “Among American adolescents, heavy alcohol use is more widespread in individuals whose families have higher levels of income and education. Teens whose parents had a higher education and a higher household income were more likely to engage in heavy drinking episodes than young people from lower-income homes whose parents were less educated.6”

    “However, individuals with a history of belonging to a lower-income socioeconomic group were more likely to engage in heavy drinking or binge drinking (the consumption of five or more drinks in one sitting), while individuals in higher-income groups were more likely to engage in light or social drinking. Individuals from a working-class background were more likely to indulge in heavy drinking; however, they were also more likely to be completely abstinent from alcohol than the white-collar Americans who were studied.”

    “ Misuse of illegal opioids (such as heroin) or prescription opioids may be highest among the poor and continues to affect people in Appalachia and those living in poverty at disproportionate rates”

    “ Middle-aged white Americans who have less education, experience poverty, and increased stress due to their financial situation have increased mortality related to substance use.9

    Other communities and demographics, including Black Americans, that experience high poverty and a lack of local economic investment also experience opioid use at increased levels, as well as polysubstance use”

    ::::::::;;

    The overall picture is that the affluent may drink more often but do so in more moderation at each sitting.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
  187. A123 says: • Website
    @Mikel

    Absent any evidence or direct experience

    How can there be direct evidence of a concept from where no one returns? The absence of something that is effectively 100% unavailable does not prove anything one way or they other.

    Asking for it is a bit eyebrow raising. How would you conduct a science experiment to prove there is nothing beyond the physical realm?

    the default assumption of the rational invidual is that there is no God.

    The common sense assumption of many rational individuals, including posters here, is that Jesus is real.

    Atheists have a faith based conviction about the beyond that they cannot prove.
    ___

    Agnosticism is an entirely different concept. It admits that that knowing about the beyond is impossible. God cannot be proven or disproven. Many misidentified Atheists are actually Agnostics.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  188. @A123

    How would you conduct a science experiment to prove there is nothing beyond the physical realm ?

    Especially that we don’t even comprehend our own physical realm. It is simply too vast and complex.

    Agnosticism is an entirely different concept. It admits that that knowing about the beyond is impossible. God cannot be proven or disproven. Many misidentified Atheists are actually Agnostics

    Correct.

    People don’t know. They cannot know. Because knowing this for sure is impossible except in a state of trance that overcomes our sensory limitations. Not knowing people tend to believe there is nothing/none out there.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  189. AP says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Again, deeming someone “dangerous” from behind the desk is not about health. You think too much in terms of “hygiene” etc

    I’m not familiar with details about the German system. Presumably it involves a reasonable evaluation of risk. So if someone throughout his incarceration showed a high level of violence such that it would be reasonable to conclude that an innocent person would be harmed if he were released after the sentence concludes, then the release will be postponed. If that’s how it is than it reasonable.

    Is that how it is?

    You cannot usurp the competence of God (here: judging future) – why not kill a person instead of keeping him forever locked anyway since you “know” they will be criminal forever

    I don’t equate prison with death and presumably the person is kept after his sentence only if he is deemed a reasonable risk of harming others after his release (like if he’s a guy who was violent while in prison and is threatening to be violent after he gets out). So he can be released if he settles down.

  190. S says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    You had asked on a previous post about what was driving mass immigration in to Europe.

    Below is an excerpt from pg 4 of an Oct, 2003 academic paper, which in part examined how corrupt elites and hangers on, either of one’s own people and, or, alien, have historically been making a pretty penny from the value of the labor they are systematically stealing from the exploited ‘immigrants’ as wage slaves, and in turn use these same exploited people in a cynical divide and rule scheme against the non-exploiting general public, the vast majority.

    ‘…the immigrants usually serve three main functions: cheap labor to replace native groups; settlement on the frontier (periphery); and control over the natives and their land. These dynamics generally result in the maintenance of hegemony…’

    The failure to have dealt with chattel slavery and it’s trade in a truthful manner in the 19th century by abolishing it as claimed, but instead to have monetized it with the introduction of wage slavery, ie specifically the so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’ system, has been a catastrophe of unprecedented proportions for the peoples of the world and for humanity as a whole.

    Actually truly caring about one’s people, though ultimately edifying for all concerned, can be a pain in the arse at times. It’s a lot easier, not to mention much more profitable, this way.

    Did I mention much more profitable?

    https://www.academia.edu/27219183/Between_urban_and_national_Political_mobilization_among_Mizrahim_in_Israel_s_development_towns_

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    , @S
  191. @AP

    Is that how it is?

    No, it isn’t. Being violent inside a prison is not essential for getting Sicherheitsverwahrung.
    From German article I once read on it, the nature of your crime, how heinous it was, is more important. However, there are no clear rules – the courts in the conservative South Germany order it more often than courts in the East or the North Germany.

    It is more about that they see your mind as a depraved (not as you see the poor, but in this direction), I would say – a depraved person does not have to be inherently violent too. There is psychological assessment every couple of years, but is kind of cursory, and tends to be negative since it is much easier to leave man in prison than to let him out. Germany has a culture of conformity, especially among state officials, and they tend to confirm each other decisions. In practice such men get out of prison when they are already old – like 60, 70 years old, since then you can say “they are too old for a crime”. Some of them die in prison too.

    My point was that it was introduced by Nazis, who, as we know, were a party of deterministic racism. They saw such a criminal as a bad specimen of race, nowadays Germans see him as a bad specimen of humanity, but determinism stayed.

  192. AP says:
    @Mikel

    Here is a lengthy discussion of Catholic attitude towards property and wealth:

    https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=2944

    There is no logical connection between the sentence “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” and rich people being able to enter the Kingdom of God after he had already declared that this was more difficult than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle

    It amends it. With man it is (basically) impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God but with God all things are possible. It seems rather clear.

    Moreover, salvation came to Zacheus, a rich man who gave only half of his possessions up and restored what he had swindled four-fold:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2019%3A1-10&version=NIV

    Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

    According to Catholic doctrine perfection is not necessary to enter the Kingdom of God because with God all things are possible.

    In other words, even virtuous people who had committed no sin would not be worthy of entering Heaven, according to Jesus, if they didn’t abandon their wealth and embrace poverty

    Indeed none of us are worthy. That’s widely understood and accepted.

    It’s little wonder that early Christians who read these passages and tried to follow them led lives of renunciation to earthly concerns.

    Far from all, and those who didn’t weren’t condemned for not doing so.

    From the linked article I provided:

    [MORE]

    “Again, in order to understand the severe tone in which the Fathers sometimes speak of riches and of its obligations, we must bear in mind that the social world in which they lived was greatly different from our own. The wonderful industrial developments that have taken place in modern times have led to an enormous production of wealth, the possession of which by private individuals rests on honorable titles. In the days of the Roman Empire, the acquisition of wealth was but too frequently secured by the spoliation of conquered lands, by extortionate tax collecting, by excessive usury, by the exploiting of defenseless widows and orphans, and by other dubious means. The result was that, in the popular mind, a certain stigma attached to the possession of great wealth. It was a popular saying, “the rich man is either an unjust man or the heir of one (dives iniquus aut iniqui heres).”

    And now numerous examples of early wealthy Christians not giving up all their wealth:

    The story of St. Peter’s release from prison indirectly shows that Mary the mother of John, surnamed Mark, lived in a house of considerable comfort. Cornelius, the converted centurion, distinguished for his liberality, was, and apparently remained, a man of means. In the Gentile churches, established by St. Paul and others, there is absolutely no trace of a communistic mode of life. Private ownership is implied both in the Agape or love-feast of the primitive Church of Corinth, and in the voluntary contributions collected in the churches of Asia Minor, Macedonia and Greece for the poor of Jerusalem. Among the devout converts of St. Paul were people of wealth, such as Crispus and Chloe of Corinth, Lydia, the seller of purple at Philippi, and Philemon of Colossae, whose runaway slave was the occasion of St. Paul’s beautiful letter to his Christian master.

    St. Basil, the life-long friend of St. Gregory, came also of a wealthy family. His parents owned property both in Pontus and in Cappadocia. A fair share of this property fell to St. Basil, who was one of ten children. He was still a young man when he adopted the ascetic life of a hermit. He sold the greater part of his patrimony and gave the proceeds to the poor. But that he might be assured a meagre income sufficient to meet his few daily wants, the family house, with the farm and a small number of slaves, was committed to the care of Dorotheus, his foster-brother, the son of his slave-nurse, on condition that he should pay St. Basil every year a fixed sum of money. Among the extant letters of the Saint are two that were written to an official of the province, asking him to see that this property of his foster-brother should not be exposed to excessive taxation.11 In other letters, we find him interceding for friends that their property may be saved from impending loss.

    Etc. etc.

    • Replies: @Mikel
  193. @Ivashka the fool

    And this void isn’t really empty, because absent interference, it manifests quantum foam from the quantum field.

    You fool!

    Did you see the Hal Puthoff Eric Weinstein flying saucer debate?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  194. @S

    Yes. Profit making is the essence of Capitalism, therefore there’s nothing surprising here. OTOH Communism has demonstrated its complete inadequacy with human nature. Which leaves us with either controlled Capitalism under a Social Democracy watch, or if one is more intent on one’s own national survival, with National Socialism. Neither Social Democracy, nor National Socialism, nor some hybrid system combining both would be acceptable to current elites. They have vilified and anathemized these models, which leaves us with no adequate social system to remediate the effects of what you call wage slavery.

    As I wrote to Sylvio at the beginning of this conversation about “separation” it is not doable under the current social system models

    So the question remains: what is doable ?

    • Replies: @S
  195. songbird says:
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Some bog body somewhere with its nipples cut off. To state the obvious – the Comanches did that sort of stuff, but it is doubtful that they licked each other’s nipples. Rather, they ate them.

    [MORE]

    As far as I know, only one written source refers to it. It’s to do with St. Patrick. Some have stated this was calumny, but my own interpretation is that the language was influenced by pastoralism, and Patrick was trying to use the native idiom, and simply found something sacrilegious or inconvenient about making an oath to a man.

    What I think we can say for certain is that it was a highly patriarchal, warrior society, where long-bearded nobles were swathed in yards and yards of cumbersome and expensive (at least in those parts) fabric, and probably wouldn’t be undressing easily.

    But, if you are a fetishist and seeking other spurious excerpts from moldy medieval Irish manuscripts that may or may not refer to nipples – and here I must specify, am afraid it will have to be heterosexual (or, at least if you like MILFs) – then I would call your attention to the following passage, from the year 1451:

    [First, some necessary background, for plot: that year there was terrible famine in the land, and years afterward, it was called the “Summer of Slight Acquaintance” for friends and relatives commonly denied each other the gift of hospitality.

    Anyway, this broad called Mairghréag Ní Chearbhaill and my probable ancestress (that is, at least I connect to her husband) held two great feasts, one in the western part of the clan territory, and one in the eastern part, in order to facilitate people traveling to it, from allover Ireland. And this event was remembered many years afterward. It is a rather lengthy passage, but to jump to the good stuff…]

    …and Margrett on the garrettes of the greate church of Da Sinceall, clad in cloth of gold, her dearest friends about her, her clergy and Judges too, Calvagh himself [her husband] being on horseback on the churches outward side, to the end, that all things be done orderly, and each one served successively; and first of all she gave two chalices of gold as offerings that day to the Alter of God Almighty, and she also caused to nurse [Wowsa! Wowsa! Wowsa!] or foster two young orphans. But so it was that we never saw nor heard the like of that day, nor comparable to its glory [Wowsa! Wowsa! Wowsa!] or solace [Huh?]

    Better satisfy yourself with that because it is all I got.

    Personally, I doubt that she actually put two babes to her breasts, from a churchtower, but who knows? If you ever build a time machine, or steal one like elderly Biff Tannen in Back to the Future 2, you can find out. Maybe, it was some pagan survival – there was another famous noblewoman knicknamed the “Mother of Munster.”

    Anyway, you can read the whole passage here, if you want more… er… plot, begins at the entry for 1451:
    https://archive.org/details/miscellanyofiris00iris/page/227/mode/1up

  196. @Emil Nikola Richard

    Yes it’s me – The Fool!

    🙂

    Not yet, but I will look into it.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  197. @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, the nature of your crime is essential and not your conduct in prison since a court orders Sicherheitsverwahrung as a part of your sentence (but not as a part of your punishment), so you can get for example 15 years prison time + Sicherheitsverwahrung, which starts after these 15 years. You can also have your sentence later commuted to let’s say, 10 years, but that does not change Sicherheitsverwahrung, which will start after these 10 years. To understand this, you must remember that Sicherheitsverwahrung legally [i.e. under German law ] is not a punishment, but a “measure taken for protection of security”. It is like being kept in forensic psychiatry without having psychiatric diagnosis.
    ECHR did not agree with this German argumentation and saw it as punishment without crime, which I fully agree with.

  198. @Ivashka the fool

    It is really good. Hal Puthoff makes the following outrageous claims:

    1. Lockheed has privatized classified physics unknown to the Stanford, Cal Tech, Cambridge, whatnot physics departments.
    2. His remote viewers had demonstrated command of future security prices and could make any amount of money you care to name.

    Weinstein respects, no idolatryizes any man with Puthoff’s credentials but remains unconvinced. Item 2 moved him to making an argument which he thought irrefutable and Puthoff just shakes his head. Item 1 had him crying for his mama. (Well not quite but he was -><- that close.)

  199. A123 says: • Website

    Will Austria joint Hungary as a sane EU country? (1)

    ‘Polling earthquake’ – Austria’s anti-immigration Freedom Party (FPÖ) is now country’s no. 1 party

    Austria has seen a record number of asylum applications in 2022. In fact, asylum applications nearly tripled from 2021, reaching nearly 60,000. The news has shocked Austria and led to a sharp backlash from a population highly skeptical of mass immigration. The FPÖ, more so than any other major party, has made immigration restriction central to their platform.

    At the same time, the FPÖ party is the only major party opposed to Russian sanctions, which it blames for creating inflation and economic turmoil in the Austrian and European economy. Many Austrians are sympathetic with this position.

    “It’s finally time to appear in the EU and say: These sanctions harm us much more than Putin. Our people have to foot the bill for them,” said deputy FPÖ chairwoman Dagmar Belakovich in the plenary session of the National Council last year.

    The party’s leader, Herbert Kickl, has also pointed to the absolute necessity of Russian energy for Austria’s households and businesses. He blames much of Austria’s inflation woes to economic sanctions on Russia.

    “If you were honest, you would have to say to the population: We can’t do without this Russian oil and gas for a long time,” said Kickl. “We need this cheap energy for households, for heating, for cooking, for hot water, for manufacturing companies.”

    This looks promising.

    However, let me repeat the caution that I have applied to the U.S. and other locations. A single win is only a first step. It takes successive administrations to lock in long term change.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://rmx.news/austria/polling-earthquake-austrias-anti-immigration-freedom-party-fpo-is-now-countrys-no-1-party/

  200. S says:
    @S

    In 2019 the ‘progressive’ (so called) Elizabeth Warren would launch her 2020 election bid from Lawrence ‘Immigrant City’, Mass. Yes, that’s it’s official nickname.

    [MORE]

    The powerful Lawrence family of Massachusetts textile factory magnates who had financed the construction of Lawrence, Mass, a factory town in the 1840’s located in a region which soon would soon see the local Anglo-Saxon farmer’s daughters (the ‘Yankee girls’) who had been doing the work there displaced by imported alien wage slaves (ie ‘cheap labor’), would also in the 1850’s finance the construction of the infamous abolition center of Lawrence ‘Bleeding’, Kansas, as part of a drive by Northern industrialists to force the South to adopt the North’s wage slavery (ie so called ‘cheap labor’) system.

    Latter 1850’s ‘Bleeding’ Kansas, where pro chattel and wage slave forces of the South and North respectively fought for control of the territory, would be a micro-cosm of the coming US Civil War.

    New England had been a primary slave trading center in British North America.

    The historic ties between slavery, both chattel and wage, and ‘progressivism’, are deeply rooted and ongoing.

    Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) waves to supporters as she takes the stage during an event to formally launch her presidential campaign, in Lawrence, Mass.

    BEFORE A GATHERED crowd of supporters in Lawrence, Mass., Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) announced her candidacy for president, framing her campaign as a “fight of our lives.”

    “This is the fight of our lives. The fight to build an America where dreams are possible, an America that works for everyone,” Warren said. “I am in that fight all the way. And that is why I stand here today: to declare that I am a candidate for President of the United States of America.”

    In her announcement speech, Warren was critical of the political establishment, calling the government a “rigged system that props up the rich and the powerful and kicks dirt on everyone else.” If elected, Warren promised to “clean up Washington, change rules in our economy, [and] change rules to strengthen our democracy.”

    Warren also criticized President Donald Trump, although she did not name him: “The man in the White House is not the cause of what is broken, he is just the latest and most extreme symptom of what’s gone wrong in America,” Warren said.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/warren-announces-presidential-campaign-792482/

    • Replies: @songbird
  201. Mikel says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    A lot of phenomena in this world of ours are not seen with the naked eye or heard of with the natural audition.

    Yes but we know about the examples that you have given precisely because we have strong evidence (typically 5-sigma+) of their existence. And still the scientific method requires us to remain skeptical about them.

    Compare that to a supernatural being for whom no empirical evidence exists but whose existence, conveniently, would calm our existential fear.

  202. @RSDB

    If you are not saying that, you should be aware that it is likely that impression of your meaning to which people are replying.

    AP gives the overwhelming impression to me that he regards poor people as primarily social problems and not human beings. I also suspect that he doesn’t mean to come across quite like that.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  203. @Mikel

    Would you care reading this when you have a moment and telling me what you thought of it ?

    https://ismailignosis.com/2014/03/27/he-who-is-above-all-else-the-strongest-argument-for-the-existence-of-god/

    If you don’t see the point of investing your time into it, then don’t.

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Mikel
  204. @Sean

    It sounds like the West is going to supply Ukraine with advanced MBTs at some point. I don’t see Ukraine as capable of achieving any sort of breakthrough, however, so likely this is to show that they are giving Ukraine what it “needs to win” even while the West knows that Ukraine can’t achieve a military victory.

    What Ukraine needs is body armor, artillery, anti tank weapons, drones and air defense systems. Talk of tanks and F-16s is just a waste.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Sean
  205. S says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    As I wrote to Sylvio at the beginning of this conversation about “separation” it is not doable under the current social system models

    So the question remains: what is doable ?

    It’s late in the day no doubt, and the situation is bad, but there are things which can be done.

    [MORE]

    1) Get with others and define what your wanting to preserve as a people, physically, and, or, culturally. Form pacts with these others about parameters of behaviour and conduct which will work towards accomplishing this preservation.

    There’s room for different groups of Euros doing this, who can at least some of the time be allies. It doesn’t have to be a monolithic, one size fits all, effort.

    Talk to non-Euros who, if not necessarily allies, won’t stand in the way.

    2) Confront those of your own who might be importing wage slaves (ie cheap labor) rather than employing their own. If they persist do not patronize their businesses, or interact with them socially. Let them know this is being done and it is costing them.

    3) Work towards a separation of those who do think the preservation of peoples is a worthwhile endeavor, and those who don’t care, and (imo) are parasiting on those that do care. This is a big divide within humanity. The world is a big place, however.

    4) Strive to do your own work and/or hire your own.

    It won’t be easy and the odds are terrible. However, look at the Amish in the United States. After decades of only small numbers, there population is exploding. Note; They do their own work, and don’t invite wage slaves (cheap labor) into their communities, where they then simply discard them.

    5) Amicable if at all possible separation of Euro peoples and the Jewish people. Another people, no matter how well meaning they might be, can run the affairs of another, the same as it is with individuals. To do otherwise is dysfunctional. Euro peoples need to be responsible for and run their own affairs.

    Finally, act.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  206. A123 says: • Website
    @Sher Singh

    Behold the Hand of God (civilian owned).

    PEACE 😇 through superior firepower 😎

    • Thanks: Sher Singh
  207. @S

    It looks doable, but it will run into the whole system opposing it. And once the smart contract, CBDC, social credit are part of the system’s toolkit, then everything you describe would instantly make someone targeted for economic and social destruction or literal physical elimination. BTW, automation would make a lot of people even more expendable. Which should logically upend the whole economy based in wage slavery. An awful lot of people would move from the potentially profitable consumer category into the miserable social burden category. Useless eaters consuming ressources…

    Capitalism is already undertaking a transformation to maximize its hold on the biosphere through boosting the power of technology. Ressources will be more important than people, power will be prized more than profit. The Machine would want to break free from this planet and go infecting the rest of the Universe. If we stand in its way, we will be crushed.

    Problem is conservatives are always a couple of decades late, their actions are always reactive, not proactive.

    When they get somewhere, the goalposts have already been moved by the progressive.

    Perhaps there’s another course of action ?

  208. Wokechoke says:

    The German, British and American military might have a lot of Training accidents to explain now. Cavalry and tank regiments will be a little denuded by next Christmas.

    • Agree: LondonBob
  209. @AP

    AP, I guess Sicherheitsverwahrung German style would be too much for you too, but what do you think about Anglo-Saxon style poorhouses..? Would you reinstitute them now? If not, what is a difference between your concept of helping the poor and poorhouses?

    One interesting data I did not find in the article below is the efficiency of the system, i.e. what was the percentage of those discharged as “reformed” and how long such a “reformation” would take.

    https://www.thestar.com/news/2009/01/03/when_poorhouse_wasnt_only_an_expression.html

    “You couldn’t just come and knock on the door of the poorhouse. You had to be accepted as the `deserving poor.’ It was the reeve and township council that decided who the deserving poor were,”

    “pauperism” was considered a moral failing that could be erased through order and hard work.”

    Hard work does not not mean efficient work, though:
    “In his native England, more than 100,000 people were swallowed up in work houses, funded by a “poor tax” on landowners and criticized for being costly and creating cycles of dependency.”

    “Handouts of food or clothing known as “outdoor relief” became common and, in New Brunswick, one solution was to auction off care of the poor to the lowest bidder at “pauper auctions” that were compared to slavery in the American south.”

    “While Canadian society has evolved and a sophisticated social safety net has developed to ease the burdens of those who’ve fallen on hard times, Dunlop is struck by how some attitudes toward poverty remain the same.

    “Sometimes when people go through the exhibit, they say `Things haven’t changed very much’ and I can understand their thinking,” Dunlop says.

    “They see, I think, the harshness and sometimes the judgments (society made about the poor.) I think we still carry that ideological base…that if you are not successful in work you are morally a failure. Those are strong roots in our western society.””

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poorhouse

    “In the early Victorian era (see Poor Law), poverty was seen as a dishonourable state. As depicted by Charles Dickens, a workhouse could resemble a reformatory, often housing whole families, or a penal labour regime giving manual work to the indigent and subjecting them to physical punishment.[2] At many workhouses, men and women were split up with no communication between them.

    (…)
    In the United States, poorhouses were most common during the 19th and early 20th centuries.

    (…)
    The poor farms declined in the U.S. after the Social Security Act took effect in 1935, with most disappearing completely by about 1950.”

  210. @Ivashka the fool

    > Perhaps there’s another course of action ?

    Learn plumbing or wiring or carpentry.

    Alchemy if you are very clever.

    There are dozens of valuable skills robots will not ever be able to replicate in spite of the Bezos Musk delusions. They persist in their delusions, for one thing, because they never learned plumbing or wiring or carpentry. Barbarossa is the alpha monkey in karlinstan.

    • LOL: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  211. Wokechoke says:

    soooo…how many Soviet designed tanks did the Russians chew through if the west is now deploying their own tanks to make up for the damage? It must amount to 10,000.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    , @Mikhail
  212. AP says:
    @RSDB

    Can you find a Catholic or Orthodox source that posits that the poor are worse people than the rich?

    Poor are not inherently worse than rich, and they probably were better than the rich for much of history.

    But empirically, in modern times the poor on average engage in more sinful acts than do the middle and upper classes.

    Can you find a Catholic or Orthodox source which puts forward a method for the quantification of sinfulness

    No.

    This does not mean that a decent attempt can’t be made to quantify it using measurable behaviors. Crimes of theft and violence can be proxies for greed and wrath, respectively, obesity and substance abuse for gluttony, number of sex partners and children out of wedlock for lust, persistent unemployment for sloth.

    In most of these areas the poor in general do worse in general than do the middle and upper classes.

    So one can conclude that in general poverty is correlated with sinfulness although it is not a perfect correlation and there do exist many poor people who are more virtuous than many rich people.

    Here is a list of sinful behaviors and who commits them:

    [MORE]

    Wealthier people have higher marriage rates and lower divorce rates:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32886585/

    Wealthy people 7 times less likely to grow up and commit violent crimes than poor people in Sweden:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4180846/

    Wealthier people less likely to kill their domestic partners in the USA, even when taking race into account:

    https://scholarworks.uni.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=ijghhd

    Poor people commit more of every type of crime in Toronto:

    https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/b5ab6df3741649c4bcc0a5fbd9e3b45b

    Both very rich and very poor had higher number of sexual partners than the middle classes:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32886585/

    Poor people more obese (thus, the sin of gluttony):

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7484407/#:~:text=Socioeconomic%20status%20(SES)%20is%20an,variable%20over%20time%20%5B2%5D.

    Poor adolescents more likely to commit all kinds of sex crimes than rich ones:

    https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/ijotcc40&div=39&id=&page=

    Poorer people more likely to abuse various substances (this is more recent than the article Barbarossa lied to that suggested the opposite, in young people):

    https://sunrisehouse.com/addiction-demographics/socioeconomic-groups/

    Poor kids more likely to abuse drugs and engagen drug-related crime in Sweden:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8247994/

    Wealthier occupations have fewer divorces:

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @RSDB
    , @Wokechoke
  213. RSDB says:
    @AP

    Can you find a Catholic or Orthodox source which puts forward a method for the quantification of sinfulness

    No.

    Well, at least you are honest that these two interesting ideas are innovations of your own.

    Please ask your priest to review these two propositions:

    1. A reliable method exists for the quantification of sinfulness.

    and

    2. The poor have been worse people than the rich for the last two hundred years or so. [Change the time scale if you like on this one.]

    And tell us what he has to say about them or don’t, that’s up to you and him.

    I am not just saying this to win an internet argument, I am deadly serious about this. You may be in grave peril.

    • Replies: @AP
  214. Wokechoke says:
    @AP

    Interesting notes on occupation and divorces. The financial penalty of divorce is very high for a man. He certainly won’t seek it out if he can keep a mistress or a string of them and the wife will look the other way. See Bill Clinton.

    The overall sexual behavior of Doctors would be interesting to quantify given the easy access they have to a hareem of nurses who do have a very high rate of divorce.

  215. AP says:
    @RSDB

    @Barbarossa:

    AP gives the overwhelming impression to me that he regards poor people as primarily social problems

    Sins are often social problems and ameliorating them also helps people who commit them (and also their victims).

    What would you have inferred about the young man, the Pharisee, and the publican respectively?

    In Biblical times the rich came by their wealth usually through evil means or inherited their wealth from those who did. So one would infer accordingly. *

    Fortunately we live in a society that has been Christian for many centuries, and circumstances are quite different.

    “I describe, but do not judge.”

    What is inferring what is in someone’s heart?

    An inference, not a judgment.

    I suppose “judgment” can mean different things. Clearly judgment in the sense of saying – “this is a sin” or “this person is lazy” or “this person has sinful intent” is not sinful, because the same Churchmen who condemn judging also identify people as such.

    But judgment in terms of condemning and rejecting people who engage in sin is clearly sinful. It seems clear that this is the type of judgment that is wrong.

    My main problem is with the idea of the quantification of sin. For instance: you discussed earlier the way the system in California encourages delinquency and officials profit from that. Taking that on its face, as I have no reason not to, are not the people involved in creating and running that system, who lead comfortable lives and probably do not often shiv anybody themselves, taking an advantage which almost certainly involves sin or, to be a bit more precise, at the very least material cooperation in sin on their part? And would that culpability not be magnified by the responsibility of their position?

    An excellent point. But such policymakers are far fewer in number among the non-poor than those who engage in theft, violence, drug abuse, etc. are among the poor. Moreover, some of them (and probably most of their voters) are well-meaning and think they are helping in some way, so their harmful behavior isn’t deliberate, there isn’t intent. This makes it different from taking a purse from someone or lying while begging that the money will be used for food when it will be used for a bag of heroin instead.

    You will perhaps accuse me of judging them and the irony has not escaped me

    I do not, because describing something is not judging (see previously).

    [MORE]

    * in order to understand the severe tone in which the Fathers sometimes speak of riches and of its obligations, we must bear in mind that the social world in which they lived was greatly different from our own. The wonderful industrial developments that have taken place in modern times have led to an enormous production of wealth, the possession of which by private individuals rests on honorable titles. In the days of the Roman Empire, the acquisition of wealth was but too frequently secured by the spoliation of conquered lands, by extortionate tax collecting, by excessive usury, by the exploiting of defenseless widows and orphans, and by other dubious means. The result was that, in the popular mind, a certain stigma attached to the possession of great wealth. It was a popular saying, “the rich man is either an unjust man or the heir of one (dives iniquus aut iniqui heres).”

  216. Mikel says:
    @AP

    With man it is (basically) impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God but with God all things are possible. It seems rather clear.

    According to Catholic doctrine perfection is not necessary to enter the Kingdom of God because with God all things are possible.

    Indeed none of us are worthy. That’s widely understood and accepted.

    Sorry, I am unable to twist my mind enough to find in Jesus’ words the meaning that you assign them. In fact, I am not even sure what exactly you’re saying those words mean.

    One thing we know about Jesus is that he was not exactly preaching to the erudite classes. He was rather interested in reaching the common people of Palestine so it is unlikely that he would have used ambiguous language. If we believe that he said what Matthew recounted, he likely meant that exactly.

    I would have been more open to the theory of his using hyperbole in that sentence or to different passages of the Gospel showing that he did see the possibility of rich people entering Heaven without first giving their riches to the poor. Not that inconsistency in a doctrine is something that I value much but I would have found it a better line of reasoning. That the full passage shows that he didn’t really mean what he said in the famous camel sentence is quite unpersuasive to me.

  217. AP says:
    @RSDB

    Well, at least you are honest that these two interesting ideas are innovations of your own.

    I am always honest on here.

    “Please ask your priest to review these two propositions:”

    1. A reliable method exists for the quantification of sinfulness.

    I’m not sure a priest would be qualified to answer this one. A sociologist, perhaps?

    One can list behaviors associated with sins and see which ones are measurable. I did that in a very rough way.

    2. The poor have been worse people than the rich for the last two hundred years or so. [Change the time scale if you like on this one.]

    I don’t agree with this statement. A more accurate phrasing would be that “poor people have engaged in more sinful behaviors on average in the last 200 years or so*, which implies that they are on average more sinful.” We are all of equal worth in God’s eyes, God loves sinners too.

    There is some kind of line between describing someone as engaging in more wickedness or even someone being internally more prone to sin (as demonstrated by a pattern of sinful behavior), while not denying him his basic worth, writing him off.

    The former is acceptable, the latter unacceptable.

    I am not just saying this to win an internet argument, I am deadly serious about this. You may be in grave peril.

    I appreciate it. Sincerely.

    * One can exclude periods of war, famine or social upheaval

    • Replies: @RSDB
  218. songbird says:
    @S

    To a certain extent, politicians are often victims of their own policy.

    To wit, a US Congresswomen for Massachusetts recently had her tranny son arrested for assaulting police in Boston:

    [MORE]

    https://news.yahoo.com/child-rep-katherine-clark-arrested-025051735.html

    I know the neighborhood of another pol who used to be counted a high official. Ritzy place, but full of illegals doing yard work and maintenance. Guess that is how they found out about the local beach and took it over, even though they can’t afford houses anywhere near and come down from places like Lawrence. Turned into a big problem. One guy who loved boating, moved from his dreamhouse, where his kids grew up because of it. They were making too much noise, and sometimes breaking into his house. Often there late into the night, even though it is supposed to be closed. Police can’t do anything because it is a state park. Was a dead body found there not to long ago.

    One thing I realized last time I was in the area is that a lot of the roads are actually private ways. It is my theory that in 40-50 years time, they might build high fences around the whole neighborhood, and gate it off, to turn it into a safe enclave for the elite, even though such places do not exist around here yet.

    • Replies: @S
  219. LatW says:
    @A123

    Elite EU leadership is about maximizing migrant inflows. Why would they help repatriate?

    Just because something has not been done before doesn’t mean it cannot be done, even on an ad hoc basis. This extraordinary war has created a novel situation where many new approaches could be put in place.

    I was talking about Ukrainians specifically, not all migrants into the EU, so let’s keep these separate (even if the repatriation of certain non-Ukrainians may be an issue as well). There is nothing in the EU that would keep Ukrainians from repatriating back to Ukraine, if they wanted so (as many of them do). The issue is purely technical – they are not able to return to their old homes and there is not enough housing for them in the Western parts of Ukraine that is readily available.

    [MORE]

    Knowing that Europe’s leaders are against repatriation.

    In the case of Ukrainians, they are not. They only oppose repatriation of non-Europeans, as far as I can tell. If you want to push another one your anti-EU lies, then I can’t help you.

    How would an international effort form & function?

    Because Ukraine is so deeply affected by the war, their government may not be able to fully organize this repatriation and are probably hoping and relying on the refugees own initiative to return. But there needs to be a more concerted effort. This would be tied to reconstruction when the time comes and possibly some construction of new housing already now in the more peaceful areas. The way it could function is the way that the current volunteer networks are already functioning. Ukraine’s current closes allies could help.

    The U.S. is going to be an internally focused “basket case” for the next couple years. So, no leadership available here.

    I agree that the US has a leadership problem. But I wasn’t thinking of the US here, but more of Europe & the UK. Those refugees who are in the US, I don’t have much hope of repatriating them, as it may be too difficult already.

    As long as Europe’s Elites are aggressively pro migration, refugees with Ukrainian identity documents are highly likely to stay.

    If they had readily available housing in the peaceful areas of Ukraine as well as means to get by, a large chunk of them would be willing to return.

    Another option in more general terms, would be to create an E. European political group that would explicitly request the Western countries not to source Eastern European doctors and nurses (and even other vital professions). Yes, this does go against the idea of free movement of labor, but it can also be argued that EEs (including Ukraine) should not be strip mined in that manner (or should be compensated because the movement is too one sided and it is the EE countries who prepare these specialists).

    Pushing Zelensky to seek an immediate armistice would be ideal for repatriation. It would protect infrastructure in Ukraine’s West. What is Elite EU leadership doing? They are trying to push heavy tanks into they fray, extending the fight, and making repatriation less likely.

    To not support Ukraine is out of the question – the decision has been made to preserve Ukraine’s statehood. It is no longer likely that West Ukraine (or even the majority of the center of the country) will be bombed out. It is possible that the hot phase of the war will be over by the end of the year, thus the repatriation efforts could be commenced (in fact, this could already be done now).

    Of course, the Ukrainian refugees are welcome to stay for as long as they need to.

    And, almost all of the ~⅓ MENA origin using forgeries.

    From what I understand, there is some filtering going on of MENA’s who are pretending to be Ukrainian. Every person should be checked (this is the procedure anyway). I have heard that some have been sent to their country of origin.

    • Replies: @A123
  220. @Mikel

    (63) Jesus said, “There was a rich man who had much money. He said, ‘I shall put my money to use so that I may sow, reap, plant, and fill my storehouse with produce, with the result that I shall lack nothing.’ Such were his intentions, but that same night he died. Let him who has ears hear.”

    (64) Jesus said, “A man had received visitors. And when he had prepared the dinner, he sent his servant to invite the guests.
    He went to the first one and said to him, ‘My master invites you.’ He said, ‘I have claims against some merchants. They are coming to me this evening. I must go and give them my orders. I ask to be excused from the dinner.’
    He went to another and said to him, ‘My master has invited you.’ He said to him, ‘I have just bought a house and am required for the day. I shall not have any spare time.’
    He went to another and said to him, ‘My master invites you.’ He said to him, ‘My friend is going to get married, and I am to prepare the banquet. I shall not be able to come. I ask to be excused from the dinner.’
    He went to another and said to him, ‘My master invites you.’ He said to him, ‘I have just bought a farm, and I am on my way to collect the rent. I shall not be able to come. I ask to be excused.’
    The servant returned and said to his master, ‘Those whom you invited to the dinner have asked to be excused.’ The master said to his servant, ‘Go outside to the streets and bring back those whom you happen to meet, so that they may dine.’ Businessmen and merchants will not enter the places of my father.

    http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm

    There is a general consensus among scholars that the Gospel of Thomas – discovered over a half century ago in the Egyptian desert – dates to the very beginnings of the Christian era and may well have taken first form before any of the four traditional canonical Gospels.

    I think I know why the Church has rejected this Gospel…

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    , @RSDB
    , @Dmitry
  221. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Jester, do you eat beef &/or use tobacco?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  222. @Emil Nikola Richard

    Alchemy if you are very clever.

    Sounds like a plan.

    🙂

  223. RSDB says:
    @AP

    I appreciate it. Sincerely.

    Thank you. I was afraid I was overstepping my bounds. I do honestly value your appreciation.

    Please feel free to reformulate these two propositions in any terms you would like before putting them in front of your priest. But please do it. You don’t have to take his advice, you don’t have to tell me or anyone here about it, and it will not take much of your time. And he might agree with you.

    I’m not sure a priest would be qualified to answer this one. A sociologist, perhaps?

    I know some sociologists. If you put these propositions in front of your priest, I can put this one (A reliable method exists for the quantification of sinfulness) in front of a sociologist for you, if you like. I will be laughed out of the room, though, because sociologists don’t generally do religious questions like “sin”.

    Again, thanks for the polite reply. In case you were wondering, I was not implying that you were dishonest. I don’t think that.

  224. @Sher Singh

    I prefer eating vegetarian when I cook for myself and I don’t smoke. However, when I cook for other people, I usually try to cook something they would like and I never refuse a food someone has cooked for me. Ah yeah, I have nearly stopped drinking too. I only drink occasionally socially to not appear to other people that I try to act “hollier than them”.

    Anything else you care to know ?

    🙂

    • Thanks: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  225. Wokechoke says:
    @Greasy William

    I guess we get to see if the Russians handle their tank designs a little differently than the Serbs and Iraqis. Recall the Russians have been watching events like Desert Storm, Operation Iraqi Freedom and Germany’s arming of Croatia and have updated their systems.

  226. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Start refusing cow and we can be friends.

  227. S says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    I hear what you are saying. The task is daunting. One can always find reasons to do nothing, however, and thus defeat themselves.

    I should add, the Anglosphere is clearly still the major base of operations for the drive for a world state. If enough people within the Anglosphere countries simply refused…

    The seemingly impossible has been done before.

  228. S says:
    @songbird

    I know the neighborhood of another pol who used to be counted a high official. Ritzy place, but full of illegals doing yard work and maintenance. Guess that is how they found out about the local beach and took it over, even though they can’t afford houses anywhere near and come down from places like Lawrence. Turned into a big problem.

    There’s no free lunch with slavery.

    Whether it be chattel or wage, it literally destroys everything it touches, and wage slavery (ie so called ‘cheap labor’), like a cancer that has metastasized, is slavery’s more malignant and destructive manifestation.

    The US Civil War was a major missed opportunity. The guns should of been turned upon the elites of both the North and South, and not each other, and a true abolition of slavery, both chattel and wage, enacted.

    The elites with the preponderance of the power, in the North and South, then and now, only have cared first and foremost in not paying their own people the prevailing real time local rates for labor, and hook or by crook to escape doing so by importing alien wage slaves, whom they then cynically pit against their own in a divide and rule scheme.

    The unholy template for this can be found in chattel slavery and it’s trade.

    • Agree: songbird
  229. songbird says:
    @Yahya

    Your argument reminds me of Hitler’s idea

    Whoa, you’re reading the H-man?!

    Likewise, the English were as genetically close as you can get to the Irish,

    This is what a lot of people say, when they want to dismiss the basis for genetic conflict. Afraid it doesn’t make any sense, if you actually spend more than five seconds thinking about it.

  230. Mikel says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Thanks for providing that link. Of course it is worth my time reading intelligent arguments that challenge my pessimistic viewpoint. Besides, you have allowed me to read a good summary of what David Bentley Hart, the author that I recently said to HMS I would read one day, has to say on the most important theological matter.

    Let me offer some random thoughts:

    – This looks like a more elaborate version of Thomas Aquina’s Five Ways to prove the existence of God. I first learned about this argumentation at high school. Our teacher of philosophy spent a good time presenting Aquina’s arguments and their criticism by later authors. I don’t remember all the details but I do know that my conclusion eventually was that the argument was weak and self-fulfilling for someone who had already decided that God exists before engaging in such reasonings.

    – The whole argument, as presented in this webpage, rests on the initial premise (ie axiom) that all reality can be divided into conditional or unconditional. Why exactly? I see no rigorous proof or explanation of the axiom and it is totally essential to the argument, as the 7 sections of the article rely entirely on it.

    – I think that, like all sets of axioms, this one should also be subject to Goedel’s incompleteness theorem, ie it cannot prove its own consistency. But I am very far from an expert in mathematics or logic so I’ll let you and any interested reader decide if this take has merit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

    – The God that results from this line of argumentation doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the Christian God or the God of any religion that I know about. In fact, I see nothing in the God that results from this logical reasoning that has any particular relationship with homo sapiens sapiens, as opposed to anything else that exists in the physical realm. From a human perspective, the existence of this Unconditioned Reality is equivalent to no God at all. By itself it carries no promise of any salvation after death whatever we do or fail to do during our lives.

  231. Sher Singh says:
    @Mikel

    Just consider everything sacred & experience divinity rather than trying to believe it.
    Common ritual, sacrality & mores are the basis of community.

    This idea of belief is entirely abrahamic & atheist

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Mikel
  232. AP says:
    @Mikel

    Sorry, I am unable to twist my mind enough to find in Jesus’ words the meaning that you assign them.

    It’s clear without twists.

    When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
    Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    When directly asked who can be saved, Jesus replied that with man it’s impossible, but with God all things are possible.

    So with God a rich man can be saved, but without Him he cannot be.

    And indeed there is elsewhere an example from the Bible of a rich man, who did not give up all of his wealth but only half of it, and who was saved. Thus confirming that with God, everything is possible.

    Luke 19:1-10

    Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

    5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

    7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

    8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

    9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

    :::::::::::::

    That the full passage shows that he didn’t really mean what he said in the famous camel sentence is quite unpersuasive to me.

    Of course He meant what he said: that salvation is impossible for the rich man without God.

    Naturally you can choose not to see what is very clear, that God makes possible that which is impossible without Him.

  233. AP says:
    @Mikel

    Compare that to a supernatural being for whom no empirical evidence exists but whose existence, conveniently, would calm our existential fear.

    For people who fear an inevitability or high likelihood of eternal Hell, atheism would conveniently calm such a fear.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • LOL: Mikel
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  234. @Mikel

    The God that results from this line of argumentation doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the Christian God or the God of any religion that I know about.

    Why should it have anything at all to do with that ?

    Truth is complete in and of itself.

    Human words are partial.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  235. @Wokechoke

    Possibly a lot fewer. Ukraine inherited lots of tanks from the USSR in 1991, but it sold most of them, with the money pocketed by various thieves now known as Ukrainian oligarchs.

  236. RSDB says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    (63)

    This is very similar to Luke 12:16-20, and (64) has some similarities to Matthew 22:1-14, although it also has some significant differences. The last sentence ( Businessmen and merchants will not enter the places of my father) seems a little out of place in the context of the narrative; but it is very reminiscent of the famous story about the moneychangers in the temple, which appears in all four of the canonical Gospels (Mat. 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-18, Luke 19:45-46, John 2:13-17 or so).

    The account in John is probably closest: And in the temple there he found the merchants selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting at their trade. So he made a kind of whip out of cords, and drove them all, with their sheep and oxen, out of the temple, spilling the bankers’ coins and overthrowing their tables; and he said to the pigeon-sellers, Take these away, do not turn my Father’s house into a place of barter. And his disciples remembered how it is written, I am consumed with jealousy for the honour of thy house.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  237. AP says:
    @Yahya

    Greeks are literally closer to Turks than just about 99% of people on the planet.

    True, but there are peoples closer to Turks than Greeks:

    Azeris are the closest, but Kurds, Persians, and peoples of the Caucuses are closer to Turks than are Greeks.

    Pre-Turk Anatolians were a Hellenized, Greek-speaking people who were closer kin genetically to pre-Arab conquest Indo-European peoples like Persians than to Greeks from Greece. The Turkish conquest made them about 15%-20% Asian. One can indeed see faint traces of Asian-ness in some Turkish faces:

    If you google-image “Castizo” (Hispanics of 1/4 Indian descent) you will see faces not unlike Turkish ones.

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Of course, none of them are close to the Irish.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Dmitry
    , @songbird
  238. @Ivashka the fool

    Why argue about God? People are inclined to push responsibility onto someone else. Plus emotionally immature people need some sort of farther figure. God is a convenient personage for both needs.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  239. @RSDB

    Gospel of Thomas is just a collection of sayings of Jesus presented in a no specific order and without any context. It is very similar to the synoptic (canonical) Gospels in its major part, but some sayings are somewhat longer and appear more complete.

    One of my favorite:

    3. Jesus said, “If your leaders say to you, ‘Look, the (Father’s) kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father’s) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

    When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty.”

    http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

    • Replies: @RSDB
  240. @AnonfromTN

    Nobody’s arguing.

    We’re just having a pleasant conversation.

    If you want to join the conversation, would you mind taking the time to read the text at the link below, and then sharing with us what you thought of it ?

    https://ismailignosis.com/2014/03/27/he-who-is-above-all-else-the-strongest-argument-for-the-existence-of-god/

    If you prefer not to, then it’s alright.

    I personally wouldn’t think less of you…

    🙂

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  241. Sean says:
    @Greasy William

    They are going to be getting a Hundred Leopard2 and Abrams now. What seems to have happened is that the Germans told the US, “if giving Ukraine Leopard2s is so morally right and safe for Germany, it should be be even more right and safe for America to give Abrams tanks, so we are not going to give Ukraine tanks unless you give them some of yours too”.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  242. I largely try to avoid posting about the RU-UA war since it’s basically a meatgrinder without much happening in terms of territorial shifts. But this will be an exception.

    The Beeb has tried to calculate Russian KIA using verified open source methods and then inflated this number by 60% to get to a rough estimate. They get about 20K total KIA. I think closer to 30K is more realistic, but this is the ballpark we’re talking about.

    Meanwhile, Ursula von der Leyen admitted 100K UA KIA a few weeks ago in a slip-up.

    [MORE]

    Whole thread is worth reading. Worth noting that Kremlin-critical liberal groups such as Mediazona have come to similar numbers in their own independent estimates.

    It does seem like UA has essentially pursued a policy of territorial maximalism at the cost of very heavy losses. Russia has done the exact opposite, in an apparent attrition tactic to simply bleed UA army dry. Often to the point of giving up territory willingly to maintain high K/D ratio.

    This would explain why the war drags on for so long and why it won’t be over anytime soon. But looking at territorial advancements alone is probably a misleading metric given these dynamics.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Dmitry
    , @AnonfromTN
    , @AP
  243. Wokechoke says:
    @AP

    of the men number 4 could pass as Irish. Number 5 is good looking. If you look at a young Colin Farrell, James Collier or Sean Connery they could be Spanish.

    Of the women. 5 could be Irish looking, but with a Spanish dad survivor from the Armada. and 1 is generic enough that it could be anyplace. 1 doesn’t look so different from Melanie Chisholm from Spice Girls. Have you seen Irish examples like the singer Enya?

  244. Wokechoke says:
    @Thulean Friend

    20K sounds about right for KIA.

  245. @Sean

    Apparently the Abrams are to be supplied out of new orders, not existing stocks. So they won’t be there until ’24 at the earliest. As for the Leopards, believe it when I see it.

    I really don’t think additional armor is going to help out the Ukrainians. No matter what weapons they have, they aren’t going to be able to break through the Russian lines.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    , @Sean
  246. @Ivashka the fool

    Yeah, when the people in that book went to the ME it was a colorful and romantic place that hadn’t yet been spoiled by modern industry and machines. That’s all changed now of course.

    Personally, I worry less and less these days about the Machine. I don’t think it has any staying power.

    The people who think like machines develop blind spots, because machine thinking is highly selective thinking that leaves out a lot of stuff – necessarily, by design – to focus on a narrow slice of reality. It also carries with it it’s own cognitive biases that impair effectively engaging with reality and that will hasten it’s demise.

    Anatoly Karlin is still blathering on these days about how the determining factor in war is material, because that’s the faith of the machine. It boggles the mind, but there you have it. And the machine people were all sure Russia would easily win, because of course, size wins, in machine world.

    It’s like everything – it has it’s day, but it’s on life support. China bet huge on the machine, and it basically went nowhere – no grand new transformations, nothing amazing came out of it. Just some lame social control with cameras that’s now breaking down too.

    I think China was the machines last hope. The last huge reservoir of talent, but it went nowhere. A billion of the worlds (supposedly) smartest people, and nada.

    So these days, I’m not too worked about the machine. It’s on its way out.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  247. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    But if you were Christian and god-fearing, you would believe you were the most likely person of any to enter hell, as the views you promote just objectively match what the worst sins according to the teaching of the Catholic church, every view being related to self-justifying yourself, or pride vicariously (to the things you associate with yourself) or often directly, trying to elevate yourself above other people.

    I’m not criticizing your posts, as your right for an opinion is not worse or better than anyone, and posts of god-fearing people might be very boring, but unless this is trolling or ignorance, why do you talk about Christianity when the views promoted in your posts are objectively opposite of the mainstream views of Christianity. It’s like someone saying their views are Buddhist and that Buddha said attachment is good.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    , @AP
  248. Dmitry says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Ursula von der Leyen admitted 100K UA KIA

    I don’t think this is what happens, instead she would be mixing estimates about casualties (dead and wounded) and dead. The military casualties for Ukraine were estimated as 100,000 (dead and wounded) soldiers, but the majority of those are wounded.

    100,000 casualties of soldiers would imply perhaps, Ukraine has 20,000 thousand dead soldiers and 80,000 wounded soldiers, if the level of the medical treatment is low.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  249. @Dmitry

    It’s like someone saying their views are Buddhist and that Buddha said attachment is good.

    Actually, AltanBakshi once said attachment is good 🙂

    I’m telling you man, there is something more going on here – certain people I think just hate hate hate these types of philosophies that appear in Christianity and Buddhism etc and they want to destroy them.

    It’s not enough to say the philosophy is wrong and leave it at that – it can’t even exist and no one can possibly have it, and they will see to that by eviscerating it.

    I think in the end the best word to describe what AP is doing is one that is very popular right now in pop psychology – “gaslighting”. This phenomenon is very real, and is widely recognized as a standard tactic used by those wanting to control other people.

    Why is it so hard to believe AP wants to control and manipulate, and is gaslighting in order to achieve his ends?

    And why not? If you’re a will to power type of guy nothing is more threatening to you than a philosophy of peace and non-attachment, and since you’re about will to power, of course you’ll try and control and manipulate people.

    As I said before, persecuting an ideology isn’t really that effective – it can backfire badly and increase faith. Gaslighting is more effective, pretending words don’t mean what they do, they mean the opposite – it creates confusion, makes people self doubt, and easier to manipulate.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  250. Dmitry says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Church has rejected this Gospel…

    The Church fathers sometimes compromised with wealthy people, which sometimes fund them, but they didn’t always hide the teaching.
    https://ekzeget.ru/bible/3a-kniga-carstv/glava-21/stih-2/tolkovatel-amvrosij-mediolanskij-svatitel/

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  251. Dmitry says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    “gaslighting”

    His viewpoint is his viewpoint and this forum is designed for people to post their viewpoint. He has “idiosyncratic views”, which is part of the enjoyment of the forum. Perhaps, his opinion can be true, who knows. From the perspective of the forum, it’s generating interesting talks quite often. We are a forum, we aren’t doing anything important like bridge engineering.

    Pride, elevating yourself, lowering others, boasting – historically, people said this is virtue, especially in Ancient Greece.

    But from the view of the religion, of course, he is writing and doing the opposite of the religion’s teaching, both historically and currently. So, I don’t know if mislabeling the “Anti-Christ” point of view, is some “gaslighting”. It’s not like anyone would be influenced by this, except himself if he actually believes in “opposite day” is every day for our forum.

    After all, he writing with a few people who are here for a hobby and we (mostly) enjoy his contributions.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
  252. @Thulean Friend

    This difference in strategy simply reflects the fact that the RF is a sovereign country that wants to spare the lives of its soldiers. In contrast, Ukraine is ruled by the empire, which considers aborigines disposable. Sending arms to Ukraine is not about its win, which is not achievable under any circumstances, but about forcing the RF to spend as much resources as possible to weaken it. The war is between the US and the RF, Ukraine is just a pawn in this game.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  253. @Ivashka the fool

    Will try when I get back to proper internet connection in five days. Right now I only have Wi-Fi on my cellphone

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool
  254. @Dmitry

    Yeah, yeah, it’s all good.

    Either way as you say APs viewpoint led to a good discussion on this site, so kudos to him for being a little bit crazy 🙂

    I can kind of see why he’s a collectors item for you in your Unz pantheon of eccentrics (although I suspect I’m another, perhaps placed on a shelf right below AP 🙂 )

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    , @Dmitry
  255. @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Personally, I worry less and less these days about the Machine. I don’t think it has any staying power

    It could be either the Machine or social and economic decay.

  256. @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    kudos to him for being a little bit crazy

    I am too a little bit crazy. Can I have some kudos too ?

    And who’s not crazy these days ?

    Crazy times man, crazy times…

    🙂

    (Actually AP is certainly among the most normal people I have interacted with on this forum. While both of us – me and you are certainly a little bit nuts. Therefore, you calling AP crazy is a little of kettle calling the pot back. )

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
  257. Reply to Dmitry from the previous thread.

    RusFed demographics could be already around 110 – 115 million people. Ukrainian might have reached the 35 million territory. In Ukraine, most people would be Slav, but in RusFed Kadyrov has tweeted that Muslims have already reached 25% of the population from less than 10% around a generation ago. Imagine what it would be in a generation if we include the 10 – 15 million migrant workers from Central Asia.

    Moskvabad and Piterkent much…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Dmitry
  258. @Dmitry

    I wouldn’t trust the official numbers from either side, but 20 K killed Ukrainian soldiers doesn’t sound plausible. Recently “Wagner” reached an agreement with Ukraine to return the bodies of soldiers killed in Soledar (which Ukraine “defended” on the web two weeks after it actually fell). They agreed to deliver Ukrainian dead in 4-5 rides of twenty (!) trucks. That’s Soledar alone.

    • Agree: Mikhail
  259. Coconuts says:
    @Mikel

    Compare that to a supernatural being for whom no empirical evidence exists but whose existence, conveniently, would calm our existential fear.

    Empirical evidence is evidence from sense experience. There can’t be any evidence from sense experience to prove the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient first cause. It’s not a question of thinking someday some evidence could in theory be discovered, that there can’t be any just follows from empiricist epistemology.

    • Replies: @Mikel
  260. Mikhail says:

    Geo_monitor
    @colonelhomsi
    Sky News shows how brave Ukrainian fighters hide their armored vehicles in Bakhmut, close to residential buildings. Furthermore, in the same story they show that people live in these houses. That is, Ukraine uses local people as human shields..

    [MORE]

  261. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Wokechoke

    Get a load of this wishful thinking idealistic screed from a US establishment realist venue:

    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/germany%E2%80%99s-leopard-2-tanks-will-help-crush-russia-206149

    Jacob Heilbrunn has gone full Ben Hodges, as in off the wall berserk. Bookmark this observation as time passes and reality sets in.

    Tanks are only as good as experienced crews with a specific tank model (Kiev regime forces lacking experience with the Leopards) and the air support they get against a formidable opponent.

    As has been noted elsewhere, the Kiev regime is working on the destruction of a third army. Its arsenal of weapons was greatly eliminated en masse shortly after 2/24/22. Then came the destruction of the refurbished T72 tanks and other weapons it received.

    For accuracy sake, it’s high time to stop the BS like the ones saying:
    – Russia is losing
    – the Kiev regime captured a lot of Russian tanks
    – Russia is running out of missiles
    – along with overly rosy forecasts for the deployment of HIMARS, Javelins and the latest salvo of wonder weapons.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  262. Coconuts says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Capitalism is already undertaking a transformation to maximize its hold on the biosphere through boosting the power of technology. Ressources will be more important than people, power will be prized more than profit. The Machine would want to break free from this planet and go infecting the rest of the Universe. If we stand in its way, we will be crushed.

    Problem is conservatives are always a couple of decades late, their actions are always reactive, not proactive.

    When they get somewhere, the goalposts have already been moved by the progressive.

    You could maybe say that one ‘silver lining’ of this for the right wing will be that if a small minority come to control all of the technology needed to sustain human life and the majority of people become basically superfluous, progressivism will mostly have been refuted.

    I am thinking that one of the core beliefs of progressivism is the idea that collectively humanity can reshape the world and human nature itself in line with human desires and aspirations. The Polish philosopher Leszek Kolakowski called something like this the ‘Promethean Voluntarism’ at the core of Marx’s ideas.

    But if humanity came to be dominated by technology and a minority of elite creators/controllers, it would be more like proving people like Auguste Comte and the Positivists correct, that impersonal laws shape human behaviour and society and there are limits as to how far they can be changed. The New Left (e.g. Marcuse) used to rage against this sort of Positivism.

  263. @Greasy William

    Apparently the Abrams are to be supplied out of new orders, not existing stocks. So they won’t be there until ’24 at the earliest.

    Looks like it all being physically moved in Poland as we speak, ofc some chance is that might be just internal movements of existing Poland army inventory for their own military trainings, but…

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/18677

  264. @Mikhail

    All this BS is propaganda campaign to prevent Western sheeple protesting too much. That’s why MSM tell implausible tales about Russia losing (even though the war after 11 months is on the territory Ukraine considers its own), Russia is”running out of missiles and artillery ammo” every other day, and all those Javelins, HIMARS, and now tanks are decisive.

    The imperial strategy is to sacrifice Ukraine to weaken Russia as much as possible. There is no backing off for the empire now, so the war will drag on to the last Ukrainian (or until remaining Ukrainians finally put two and two together).

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  265. @Ivashka the fool

    Of course – kudos to you Bashi for enlivening this board with your craziness 🙂 May it long continue.

    I know what you mean about AP. In America people with his views and lifestyle are quite common, maybe less in Europe (I hope), but for a moment there I was having fun seeing him through Dmitry’s eyes where AP calls himself a Christian but has these weird Hindu casteist views and an eccentric rendition of Christianity that essentially flips the script 🙂

    But ultimately you are right and AP is actually the “normal” one here – I on the other hand am nuts, and revel in it 🙂

    And you’re pretty nuts yourself, which is awesome…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  266. Sean says:
    @Greasy William

    The Abrams will have a lot of the advanced electronics stripped out it. That is what the Brits did with the Mastiff vehicle they donated to Ukraine. The US does not have all that much capacity for increasing artillery production because it did not rely on artillery very much. Countering Russian fires will by by deep strike precision missiles of nothing. If the US gave ATACMs, GLSDB, Gray Eagle, and F16s I think Ukraine would take back Crimea or at least make it untenable. America would like to, but clearly sees it as too risky for them as Putin would be pushed into a corner.

    Ukraine forgot that their country being whole is an incident not an end for the US. Hence, Ukraine is being denied the most effective (deep strike) weapons and–unable to do mobile warfare–is as a result being dragged into a rolling battle of attrition fronted by Prigozhin’s legion of lifers (locating enemy positions through being killed from them), and backed by ponderous but immense artillery fires.

  267. @AnonfromTN

    Russia is”running out of missiles and artillery ammo” every other day

    Actually I haven’t heard that one for a while. The main cope I hear now is the “muh human wave attacks”.

  268. A123 says: • Website
    @LatW

    Just because something has not been done before doesn’t mean it cannot be done

    There is a first time for everything. However, there are usually signs & effort leading up to such events.

    Is there any sign that Scholz and Macron are changing?

    I was talking about Ukrainians specifically, not all migrants into the EU, so let’s keep these separate (even if the repatriation of certain non-Ukrainians may be an issue as well).

    At a minimum Ukrainian document holders need to be talked about as a whole. That means that vast numbers of MENA migrants with forged papers will be impacted by any EU scheme.

    There is nothing in the EU that would keep Ukrainians from repatriating back to Ukraine, if they wanted so (as many of them do).

    If large numbers of authentic Ukrainians leave, the fiction of MENA origin “Ukrainians” becomes more visible. While there is nothing preventing repatriation, EU Elites have a vested interest in discouraging it.

    Creating an unfunded demand for services in frontier countries also strengthens Brussels ‘authoritarian liberalism’.

    The issue is purely technical – they are not able to return to their old homes and there is not enough housing for them in the Western parts of Ukraine that is readily available.

    They also need an end to the fighting, functioning infrastructure, and jobs.

    Continuing to escalate (e.g. Leopard tanks) is clearly a hazard to the first two. And, long term economic disruption is known to be bad for jobs.

    If EU leaders were interested in repatriation as a priority, then the first essential step is an armistice. The fact that the EU is not interested in any cessation of hostilities is a strong indication that they have no interest in reducing the current number of refugees.

    PEACE 😇

  269. Mr. Hack says:
    @Barbarossa

    Nothing could be further from the truth. He’s continually provided the opinion that these people need help from both a clinical and a spiritual point of view, but that they shouldn’t be coddled and held up for some sort of special worship (like some SJW’s seem to want). He’s also indicated that he’s personally worked with hundreds of these sorts of people in an inner city environment, so he’s well qualified to make personal opinions on this matter. His religious views on the subject matter have biblical groundings, as he’s used such sources to support his opinions. I leave room for divergent views from his opinions, as the subject matter indeed has some element of subjectivity to it.

    • Thanks: AP
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    , @RSDB
  270. Mr. Hack says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I enjoy reading the comments that all three of you post here (indeed, you three may be my favorite participants at this blogsite). I must be the one who’s really nuts! ( A good time for all of my detractors here to signal an “agree”, and the few fans that I’ve accumulated here too). 🙂

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
  271. RSDB says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, it’s only that I was thinking that those two passages would likely not be why it was not accepted as a canonical Gospel, if what was in them was in the canonical Gospels as well.

    Sorry, I have a very simplistic mind.

    One of my favorite:

    Thank you. It’s an interesting work, to be sure.

  272. @Mr. Hack

    I get that and agree with you. However, as RSDB mentioned a lot of the reaction to AP has been more about his tone, coupled with the substance of his points. It seems to come across to me and others as an uncaring and callous attitude toward the poor.
    At the same time, I doubt that this reflects how AP actually is as a person.
    It is an internet forum after all, and the nuances of communication get lost. I thought it was worth reinforcing RSDB’s point, since AP may want to reconsider how he makes certain points if there is a divergence between what he means and how he is understood.

    • Replies: @AP
  273. AP says:
    @Thulean Friend

    The Beeb has tried to calculate Russian KIA using verified open source methods and then inflated this number by 60% to get to a rough estimate. They get about 20K total KIA

    Our former host estimates 45k Russian killed.

    This is supported by a piece of evidence, the statue in Saratov which listed the war dead back in December, before the bloody Bakhmut/Soledar battles. Extrapolated to all of Russia, the number was around low 30,000s back then IIRC. It did not include MIA so was an underestimate. So 45k currently makes sense. That 45k would not include Donbas forces KIA.

    Meanwhile, Ursula von der Leyen admitted 100K UA KIA a few weeks ago in a slip-up

    The slip up was that she meant total casualties. It seems low to me.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  274. @Mr. Hack

    Well, if we are talking on Unz than it’s a forgone conclusion that we must all be…ahem…idiosyncratic.

    That’s what makes this place interesting. If I wanted to hear “normal” internet commentary I could scroll the comments at Breitbart!

    • Agree: RSDB
    • Replies: @songbird
  275. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Pardon me, but perhaps a slight correction is in order?

    Imagine what it will be in a generation if we include the 10 – 15 million migrant workers from Central Asia.

    With all of the Slavs moving to the EU (Poles, Ukrainians, Russians) perhaps this will one day become the source of Moscow’s intrusions, because it will look like the new NovoRosija? 🙂

  276. RSDB says:
    @Mr. Hack

    The discussion centered around the following propositions :

    1. A reliable method exists for the quantification of sinfulness.

    [If I was asking on my own part, I would add to this proposition the following sentence: “Even if such a quantifying procedure does not now exist, it would be possible and desirable for a man to quantify the total degree of sinfulness of another man or group of men.” But AP believes such a method already exists, so this addition would be unnecessary.]

    and

    2. The poor have been more sinful people[AP’s phrasing]/worse people[my phrasing] than the rich for the last two hundred years or so.

    My understanding is that AP views these as sociological rather than religious propositions, which is why I asked him to take them to his priest, because I do not view them as purely sociological questions and I do not think it is safe to do so.

    I have also offered to follow AP’s view and take them to a sociologist as sociological questions, although, as I mentioned, I will almost certainly be laughed out of the room.

    His religious views on the subject matter have biblical groundings, as he’s used such sources to support his opinions.

    “Religious views” may be overspecifying. In his comments to me, he has been very clear that his views on the subject are his own and not part of the apostolic Catholic or Orthodox traditions.

    But it is precisely a question whether these views have religious ramifications or not.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @RSDB
    , @AP
  277. RSDB says:
    @RSDB

    Correction: Actually so far I have only offered to take the first proposition to a sociologist if asked, but I can take the other as well, it’s no added effort except looking a bit silly.

  278. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    But if you were Christian and god-fearing, you would believe you were the most likely person of any to enter hell, as the views you promote just objectively match what the worst sins according to the teaching of the Catholic church

    Nobody knows who will or will not go to Hell, but none of us deserve salvation on our own merits.

    Indeed almost every week I publicly state and implore:

    “Боже, милостивий будь мені, грішному Боже, очисти мої гріхи і помилуй мене.
    Без числа нагрішив я, Господи, прости мені.

    What I have written has been supported by the teachings of the Church, and I have provided links to those. For example my attitude towards wealth matches this:

    https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=2944

    I am very pleased that the one devout Orthodox Christian here, who knows more about such matter than either of us do, confirms that I am on the right track in my opinions, and those that disagree with me are a collection of atheists, apostates, and heathens (a description, not judgment).

    every view being related to self-justifying yourself

    I organize my life in such a way that it is as good as I can make it.

    why do you talk about Christianity when the views promoted in your posts are objectively opposite of the mainstream views of Christianity

    This is a false statement.

    I provide evidence for my views matching those of mainstream Christianity. You, the atheist, and AaronB (some kind of heathen?) do what cultists and sectarians do: cherry-pick quotes from the Bible to support things that the Church does not. So he does that to pretend that his self-indulgent nature tourism places him in a similar category as ascetic Church fathers. You do that because, I suppose, you like a debate. I don’t mind that, it inspired me to review Church teaching.

  279. AP says:
    @Barbarossa

    It seems to come across to me and others as an uncaring and callous attitude toward the poor.

    If I were uncaring I would write them off as hopeless and ignore them/isolate from them or, even worse, use their suffering as a prop and even celebrate it for my own purposes (I.e., to hold them up as positive examples in order to attack Christian society).

  280. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    I am very pleased that the one devout Orthodox Christian here, who knows more about such matter than either of us do, confirms that I am on the right track in my opinions, and those that disagree with me are a collection of atheists, apostates, and heathens (a description, not judgment).

    I never wrote nor inferred the highlighted portion of your quotation? I’ve been trying to ardently convey that the subject matter at hand (at this point, I admit that I’m a little bit at a loss to recite exactly what that is), seems to encompass a large spectrum of opinions. There’s no right or wrong interpretation, although you make a strong case for your opinions and I would be very hesitant to categorize them as un-Christian. Aaron also has some valid points. Wouldn’t we all agree that the gospels often pose some seemingly contradictory views that force us to deeply consider things, but in the end “all things are possible with God”. No easy answers in this life…..

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Ivashka the fool
  281. RSDB says:
    @AP

    What I have written has been supported by the teachings of the Church, and I have provided links to those.

    I think what people are arguing with you about, except Mikel who does have an issue with reconciling the Gospel and the teachings of the Church and with whom you are doing a good job arguing, are precisely the views you have stated are your own and not the teachings of the Church.

  282. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    To be clear I did not mean to attribute the bolded part to you. I should have written that part first, to avoid the confusion.

  283. @AP

    none of us deserve salvation on our own merits.

    Pretty protestant statement again, and based almost exclusively on St Paul teachings, like Letter to Ephesians 2:8-9, or Letter to Romans 9:14-18. It is clear you do not understand the importance of the Letter of St James (see my comment no 133) as a response to St Paul. So what do you think about this is a matter of your opinion on St Paul, who is – to remind you – the favourite teacher of Protestants, and in many ways, a pretty divisive character as a self-appointed apostle, and in conflict with others (like St James).

    Putting aside the matter of the original sin (which, strangely, is not a part of Judaism, was not a part of Judeochristianity, but only of Pauline Christianity- it is St Paul doctrine, again ), you don’t seem to be correct here. At least in Catholicism you could say that your ultimate goal is to become a saint – you cannot go further than that in being Christian. On the other hand, I heard that Orthodoxy has an idea of much more corrupted human nature than Catholicism – this is why the Orthodox expect a direct intervention of God in their lives through theosis. The reverse of that is that the Orthodox allow themselves often to wallow in sins (Russia & Ukraine being known for alcoholism, prostitution and racketeering practices – practices you could say are affirmation of corruption of human nature ), since their actions will change nothing without direct help of God: so I read at least.

    • Replies: @AP
  284. @AP

    collection of atheists, apostates, and heathens

    Guilty as charged.

    Even though I did not expect such Spanish Inquisition…

    Bring in the cushy pillows!

    🙂

    Now seriously, I think the debate between you AB and Dima is not theological, but social and psychological. You defend “conservative values”, and sometimes use religious justifications to uphold these. They being younger and somewhat “Romantic” (to use Dima’s vocabulary), defend more “progressive social norms” and also use Scripture to justify their take on these.

    Your whole debate is nothing new, people have often used religious justification to bolster their opinions on the way society should be organized. All this is typical human egotism and has nothing to do with God. As long as we all avoid St Barthelemy’s nights and Holy Crusades, we will all stay good friends.

    One last thing, I (the apostate / heathen / whatever) do not doubt a minute that you do your best to be a good Christian. Just like I do my best to be a good “apostate / heathen / whatever”…

    🙂

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @AP
    , @Dmitry
  285. @Mr. Hack

    “all things are possible with God”

    Amen !

    • Replies: @A123
  286. LondonBob says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Ryan Dawson originates much of Whitney Webb’s stuff, at least he believes so.

  287. songbird says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Someone needs to create a black legend series of Legos for different countries/races.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  288. The image above is the emblem of the European Council.

    For those who do not get the meaning of the image, it is the typical Bell Beaker pot covered into a Corded Ware ornamentation.

    Simply put, according to this hybrid symbol Europe = Corded Ware + Bell Beaker.

    Looks like I am not the only one interested in the R1a / R1b haplogroups and their historical interactions.

  289. LondonBob says:

    Ugledar on the menu now. Unless a large reserve is being kept and trained than maybe the locals will be wrong and it will be all over before the end of the summer. Brusilov would like a concerted broad front push.

    [MORE]

  290. songbird says:
    @Barbarossa

    I agree. One of the best things about Unz is the characters.

    Problem with censorship is that it eliminates the characters. Twitter (which was really the best of the major platforms for character development, IMO) to me is like one of those Soviet photos with successive people air-brushed out.

  291. LondonBob says:

    What is the purge in Kiev all about?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  292. @AP

    “That boy needs a therapy!
    That boy needs a therapy!
    (…)
    What does it mean?
    You are a nut!
    You are crazy in the coconut!”

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  293. A123 says: • Website
    @Ivashka the fool

    “all things are possible with God”

    Amen !

    It is important to place this in its proper context.

    • God helps those who help themselves.
    • If you insist on doing something incredibly stupid, God is unlikely to help you.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  294. @A123

    If you insist on doing something incredibly stupid

    Rest assured, I only do moderately stupid things and have only been moderately successful at doing it.

    🙂

    [MORE]

    Given your deep known affection towards the Sorosoid Islamo-fascist SJWs, I would like to share with you one of my life’s role models.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasreddin

    When I was a kid I read an excellent novel about his Ferghana adventures. A life changing experience…

    🙂

    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  295. Mr. Hack says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Some consider Malcolm Mclaren to have been a musical genius, others no doubt consider him to have been a flake who specialized in publicity stunts. I consider him to have been a little of both, but mostly my personal guide to the world of human insanity. Listening to his music provides me with a good escape into esoterica, playfulness and daydreaming. Not bad?

    Q: Are you crazy?

    A: No, I’m (Yo)ucrainian. 🙂

  296. @LondonBob

    US taking full control and pushing the UK subservient Khokhols towards the exit. The Brits have overplayed their hand in the Intermarium project. All must be equal under the Pentagon’s MIC.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @LondonBob
  297. AP says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    “none of us deserve salvation on our own merits.”

    Pretty protestant statement again

    This is said during the liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom, when we explicitly refer to ourselves several times as sinful and unworthy servants and implore God to grant mercy and forgiveness. Is not something similar said during the Catholic Mass?

    It is clear you do not understand the importance of the Letter of St James (see my comment no 133) as a response to St Paul

    I just follow the Church as best I can. Out of curiosity, are you a Protestant, or someone who has left the Church?

    The reverse of that is that the Orthodox allow themselves often to wallow in sins (Russia & Ukraine being known for alcoholism, prostitution and racketeering practices – practices you could say are affirmation of corruption of human nature

    Ukrainians and Russians are generally more sinful than are Poles but this seems to be more the influence of Soviet Communism than of Orthodoxy and Greek Catholicism. Within Ukraine, the places with a shorter history of Communist rule show significantly lower rates of sinful behaviors. Catholic Lithuania does not seem to have much lower rates of sinful behavior than does Western Ukraine.

    • LOL: Mikhail
  298. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Rest assured, I only do moderately stupid things and have only been moderately successful at doing it.

    Got to love that quotation! Sounds like something that Woody Allen would say.

    As far as your cushy room for undergoing a Spanish inquisition rehabilitation process, I would suggest intense scrutiny of all off Malcom Mclaren video clips, something like what poor Alex had to undergo within a Clockwork Orange. Sorry, but you set yourself up for this. 🙂

  299. songbird says:

    If these woke statues are torn down, I sincerely hope they will be put into a museum somewhere, where people can experience them.

    [MORE]

  300. Mikhail says: • Website

    Levi
    @Levi_godman
    Colombian President confirmed that Washington discussed transfer of Russian-made weapons to Kiev.

    Petro stressed that “Russian weapons in Colombia will not be used in this conflict.”

    More sovereign than all of the EU

    [MORE]

  301. Mikhail says: • Website

    Trollstoy
    @Trollstoy88
    Ukraine alone (without Western help) before the conflict had 2.596 tanks.
    Do you really think that 100 or even 200 Leopard tanks will be a deal-breaker to change the tide? 🤭

    [MORE]
    https://twitter.com/

    Trollstoy88/status/1618212576453877762

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @AnonfromTN
  302. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    So the war’s primary purpose is to allow oligarch malfeasance? Once that’s curtailed the Ukranian war effort to defend itself from those nasty orcs will naturally peter out? Zelensky works for the Brits now? LOL!

  303. Mikel says:
    @Sher Singh

    That is actually an interesting perspective and I don’t fully disagree with it. Last year I had the misfortune of having to attend a funeral in the old country. After the ceremony I was talking to an old friend about some rather contentious religious stuff the priest had said in his homily, taking for granted that we were all devout believers, and he told me that these days civic funerals are becoming a thing around there but they are generally an embarrassment. The speaker doesn’t quite know what to say and tries to substitute religious passages with quotes from writers or philosophers that don’t really reflect the deceased person’s character.

    All things considered, I prefer my relatives to continue having Catholic funerals, as they have during countless generations. The rites are well established, people know the Mass routines, what to do, what to say and when to the grieving relatives, and it all results in a dignified farewell to your loved one.

    But the most moving funeral I have ever attended was a Mormon one, last year too. Apart from a well elaborated Church pomp, all immediate relatives of the deceased, including a 90+ year old person, found the composure to say some words about him from the altar and let us know personal details about him that we didn’t know.

  304. songbird says:
    @Mikhail

    IMO, it is more about political alignment.

    If Germany gives a few Leopards then it is hard for them to reject hosting American-operated training centers for Abrams tanks.

  305. Mikel says:
    @Coconuts

    There can’t be any evidence from sense experience to prove the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient first cause.

    There can, if that omnipotent first cause decides to manifest itself to us, as the Christian God used to do from time to time in Biblical times and as some claim continues doing in private (for some strange reason, never in a public and transparent way).

    Absent that direct experience, all one can do is evaluate the odds of such a God having ever really existed or, if one is to settle down on the much more modest claim of a First Cause or Unconditional Reality, try to asses if the arguments in favor of it are logically satisfying. And of course, one can also abandon any reasoned approach to the matter and decide to believe in the god/s of his ancestors because life is just easier that way, both socially and existentially. Nothing wrong with this latter approach, as far as I’m concerned, if one is really able to force such a belief upon himself.

  306. Coconuts says:

    There can, if that omnipotent first cause decides to manifest itself to us, as the Christian God used to do from time to time in Biblical times and as some claim continues doing in private (for some strange reason, never in a public and transparent way).

    That is not empirical evidence of omnipotence, omniscience or God being the first cause. I guess it would be God acting to implant knowledge directly into someone’s mind in a way that they could not doubt. What sense experience (from sight, hearing etc.) would be involved there?

    The next part looks something like the argument that because God hasn’t implanted knowledge of his existence in your mind in a way it is impossible to doubt, it is irrational for anyone to believe God exists.

    Absent that direct experience, all one can do is evaluate the odds of such a God having ever really existed or, if one is to settle down on the much more modest claim of a First Cause or Unconditional Reality…

    I don’t understand what you mean by ‘God’ and ‘modest’ here.

    And of course, one can also abandon any reasoned approach to the matter and decide to believe in the god/s of his ancestors because life is just easier that way, both socially and existentially.

    But what exactly is a reasoned approach? Perhaps this can’t be explained without falling back into rhetoric or relying on arbitrary claims. One person’s idea of what constitutes a ‘reasoned approach’ may not be viewed in the same way by others.

    • Replies: @Mikel
  307. Mikel says:
    @Coconuts

    I don’t understand what you mean by ‘God’ and ‘modest’ here.

    By God I mean the being described in the Abrahamic and other monotheist religions with a profound connection to us, humans. So profound that He send us prophets and even His own son to redeem us and change our behaviors.

    The claim that the Universe, contrary to what top cosmologists like Hawkings, Sean Carrol or Brian Greene think, cannot be conceived without a first cause or unconditional reality is much more modest. It only deals with the nature of reality but has no particular significance by itself for hominids on planet Earth or any other species anywhere else. Whether the Big Bang was put in motion spontaneously or caused by an unconditioned reality, no salvific intervention follows for a species that appeared much later in a remote corner of the resulting Universe. At least that’s how I see the argument that Ivashka linked to. Anyone correct me where I’m wrong.

  308. AP says:
    @RSDB

    1. A reliable method exists for the quantification of sinfulness.

    Are sins associated with certain behaviors? Lust with number of sexual partners, for example? Wrath with assault or murder? Gluttony with obesity and drug abuse?

    If so, then can sins not be measured and thus quantified?

    So person X assaulted five people, abuses alcohol, has stolen, has slept with 10 women, person Y has not assaulted anyone, does not abuse alcohol, does not steal, and is faithful to his wife, therefore person X has committed more measurable sins than has person Y.

    I am not suggesting that all sins can be measured – we can’t measure what people are thinking, sarcasm and rudeness are harder to measure than physical assault, one can’t quanity a cold heart. But just as homicide rate can serve as a rough but valid proxy for crime in general, these identifying and measurable sins can serve as a rough but valid proxy for sinfulness.

    So in this limited and still significant way, it would appear that one can measure sinfulness.

    The poor have been more sinful people[AP’s phrasing]/worse people[my phrasing]

    1. I don’t think it’s phrasing, the meanings are different. Sinful means – having engaged in sin more. Worse is a value judgment. They may be linked – it’s hard to say that a pedophile murderer is not worse than someone who has never done such things. But not quite the same.

    2. If sins can be measured (as it seems is likely – we can measure assaults, sexual partner number, etc.) than it follows that certain groups can be identified as engaging in more or less sin than do other groups. We can compare crime rate, numbers of average sexual partners, etc. to make broad and general conclusions about different groups of people regarding sinfulness. As with other measures such as IQ, such averages do not determine what is true of a given individual from each group.

    I do not think it is safe to do so.

    Could you please elaborate on why to you, it does not seem safe to do so? That is, why might it be unsafe to quantify observable sinful behaviors to see patterns among groups, as long as one is careful not to judge individuals based on the group averages?

    In his comments to me, he has been very clear that his views on the subject are his own and not part of the apostolic Catholic or Orthodox traditions.

    On this particular topic and methodology, the Church has nothing to say AFAIK. But in general my views on topics of religious discussion are as far as I know have been supported by sources I have provided, in line with standard Orthodox and Catholic traditions.

    • Replies: @RSDB
    , @RSDB
    , @Barbarossa
  309. AP says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    As long as we all avoid St Barthelemy’s nights and Holy Crusades, we will all stay good friends.

    The Crusader Song in Ukrainian is nice though (h/t LatW):

  310. Wokechoke says:
    @AnonfromTN

    Penetrating analysis there. I don’t think it’s been noticed. Empires like Rome did use legitimate client Kings before they Borged the next generation of indigenous into compliance.

  311. @Mikel

    By God I mean the being described in the Abrahamic and other monotheist religions with a profound connection to us, humans.

    This is an arbitrary limitation. An Atheist is supposed to deny God in any forms, not the God of a specific religious tradition.

    Whether the Big Bang was put in motion spontaneously or caused by an unconditioned reality, no salvific intervention follows for a species that appeared much later in a remote corner of the resulting Universe.

    The author of the Ismaili (in fact Islamic and early Classical) logical demonstration of God’s existence didn’t claim that God intervention preceded the Big Bang. He had insisted that the Absolute Reality that we call “God” transcends conditioned limitations of any type including the temporal and spacial ones.

    Regarding the salvific action of such an Absolute Reality, our entire existence is only possible because this Reality is. It is immanent in our being as much as transcendent through any limitations of past, present and future space.

    If for you sustaining and offering a gift of existence to all that exist is not generous enough, and if you want on top of that some special treatment because you are human, then what you advocate is not Atheism, but Anthropocentric Egotism.

    Our discussion started when you wrote that denying God is a common sense intellectual stance. But your cherry picking of religious traditions to limit what might be named God, and your demands for special salvific intervention towards human beings do not strike me as common sense at all.

    Let’s go back to the beginning of our argument.

    Is it plausible that such an Absolute Reality is the ground of being ?

    And if your answer is negative, then why ?

    What would be wrong with the logical demonstration offered by Ismaili Gnostic?

    Any fallacy that you can detect in his reasoning?

    Of course if you are not interested in debating the logic of the argument of this anonymous Ismaili, then you may state that you deny the existence of Absolute Reality/God on personal preferences’ basis.

    But then, please refrain from using the simple common sense as justification for your specific and limited brand of “Atheism”.

    • Replies: @Mikel
  312. Wokechoke says:
    @AP

    Russia would be negotiating over Sevastopol if they’d lost 180,000 in one year.

    • Replies: @AP
  313. AP says:
    @Wokechoke

    That includes injured. 45,000 killed.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  314. @AP

    It is true that Ukrainian is a melodic language exquisitely suited for songs and chanting.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  315. Mikel says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    An Atheist is supposed to deny God in any forms

    Who cares? I don’t think I have ever categorically denied anything related to God. Just expressed my disbelief. Contrary to what you said, I don’t belong to any belief system or community that I need to defend. You (or A123, always arguing about the correct terminology on this matter, or AP, always appalled at people reneging the authority of the Church) can call me whatever you please. It doesn’t change anything. But, according to Wikipedia, perhaps my current position should be categorized as agnostic atheist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

    your demands for special salvific intervention towards human beings do not strike me as common sense at all.

    You have this totally backwards. You should take that up with the people in this blog who do believe in a salvific deity. I have just pointed out that the Ismaili/Aquinas God and the God they believe in are totally different concepts and have just explained why in my reply to Coconuts.

    What would be wrong with the logical demonstration offered by Ismaili Gnostic?

    I wrote a rather lengthy reply to this question with various points. And I did it at your request. You never addressed any of those points so we’re going circular here, aren’t we?

  316. Wokechoke says:
    @AP

    No. They couldn’t deal with Somme like casualties. They can’t afford to lose more than 250,000 men to keep Crimea. In all fairness to Russia, USSR etc I don’t believe they really lost 10s of millions in ww2 to the Germans either. Puffed up egotists had to claim they bled 50,000,000 to beat the Germans.

  317. songbird says:

    I keep thinking about the armor in Excalibur.

    [MORE]

    Boorman choose it, so he could play the light off of it. The knights, when they are most idealized, have it shining off of them heavily. Some say that there is even a Christian theme in it, that they become dirtier when they are more sinful, and then have a spiritual rebirth, where they are shining again, riding through the apple blossoms.

    I wonder if it was directly the reason that a lot of people were turned off by the armor – the faux glitz of the light.

    But here is what I keep thinking about it – whether one thinks it a good device or a bad one – it is an easy analogy for how certain groups are idealized in Hollywood. It is like they are wearing cumbersome armor that is artificially glowing all the time, without the period of mud. And some of the same people who would be turned off by the armor in the movie, completely go for it, and demand more of this infinite false chivalry.

    Silvio: BTW, if you reading this, I just thought of a solution to the plot hole you mentioned: Excalibur willed itself to go into the stone. Probably willed the ambush, and then its own escape. Makes sense as Uther basically drops dead a little while after he lets go of it.

    • Replies: @A123
  318. @Mikel

    You are right, I should have commented upon the different points you raise in your reply. Instead I juste answered by unslderscoring that whatever we might say about this topic would only be of limited value and inadequate veracity.

    Our words are not adequate to discuss anything that transcends our conditioned reality. This is why most respected mystics in all spiritual traditions used the Via negativa / apophatic theology.

    It is in the silent depths on one’s mind/heart that one can find an answer to these questions, if one is inclined towards these contemplations.

    I am not of the preachy type, and I don’t usually discuss these things because discussing them is pointless. Everyone must follow one’s own path and we cannot walk the path of someone else.

    There is an old Sufi saying that goes like “There are no more than two steps to the door of the Friend. You are stopping with the first step.”

    Therefore I wish you well on your journey.

    • Thanks: Mikel
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  319. A123 says: • Website
    @songbird

    Excalibur willed itself to go into the stone. Probably willed the ambush, and then its own escape. Makes sense as Uther basically drops dead a little while after he lets go of it.

    Uther did not die. He was taken to Avalon where he was healed. He then turned up hundreds of years later on Babylon 5.

    PEACE 😇

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @songbird
  320. Wokechoke says:

    Putting the Boot in…

    Scott Ritter interviews Victor Bout. lol.

    Do fast talking Russians hide behind so-so English skills? Quite interesting to see Bout on a Skype call.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  321. @Wokechoke

    Do fast talking Russians hide behind so-so English skills?

    Yes we do.

    🙂

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  322. Sher Singh says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    This is an arbitrary limitation. An Atheist is supposed to deny God in any forms, not the God of a specific religious tradition.

    The Romans called christians atheists – come to agree.
    They don’t believe in one God, but merely deny the millions others.

    Once you understand religion as an inherent part of Man rather than belief,
    this just makes sense.

  323. @AP

    I’d like to make clear that I actually have no wish to try to make the point that the rich abuse substances at higher rates than poor people. I wouldn’t be surprised that poorer people do abuse substances at higher rates than richer people. The exact breakdown is immaterial to my point which is that you were citing tendentious statistics to paint an unnecessarily binary picture of poor sinful people abusing substances in contrast to the orderly example of their more virtuous betters. In reality substance abuse is a massive problem across socioeconomic lines, though because of it’s association with despair I don’t find it unusual that it would be highest represented in the most desperate populations.

    I’d still be interested in hearing what your response would be to my other points.

    On a slight tangent, I don’t think that your thoughts about the aristocracy translate to today’s class dynamic. The aristocracy, at least in the ideal which was sometimes realized and sometimes not, operated under a societal sense of mutual responsibility and obligation. This is not really the case today. Their are still vestiges of it in that we laud the rich who give to charity, but that is far different from a specific and concrete responsibility to care for those directly under the old order aristocrat. Also, we don’t socially penalize the rich who don’t practice charity. It’s seen not as a responsibility in a deep sense just a nice option.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    , @RSDB
  324. Sher Singh says:

    https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/p/wagners-rising-star

    https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/p/the-first-principle-of-strength

    His principle of strength stuff is still cucked since it doesn’t address male dominance over women.

    Only abstractions like ‘the nation’

    https://bioleninism.wordpress.com/2017/08/03/feminist-nationalism/

  325. songbird says:
    @A123

    It’s kind of blackpilling to think that you could have O’Neill cylinders and jumpgates and an area like Downbelow inhabited by the dregs of society.

    What a bleak vision of the future!

    • Replies: @A123
  326. Sher Singh says:
    @Barbarossa

    He could just make the point that IQ is correleated to self-control & be done with it.
    Agree with the rest – as far as my own material aspirations vs religious zeal.
    I’m just a blade of grass, but I don’t think a materialist would oppose liberalism.
    Never read Nietzsche nor intend to though.

    There’s nothing wrong with material prosperity, but it’s empty in and of itself.
    A King still needs wealth, knowledge, and labour (service or sewa).
    All these are performed in addition to, Kingship in battle which is paramount.

    [MORE]

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

  327. @AP

    Have you ever heard of Timur Mutsuraev ?

    Here’s a cover of one of his songs by a talented young Russian lady;

    [MORE]

    If you liked it, then perhaps you might give a try to his early songs, which he composed with one of his friends during the first Chechnya War.

    There are two songs that might be today’s Islamist answer to the Pälastinalied: Иерусалим & 12000 муджахедов.

    I have read that these songs are often played on both sides of the frontline in Ukraine by people of different ethnic and religious backgrounds.

    Warrior ethos etc…

  328. @Mikel

    Just a very quick note –

    God defined as the Ground of All Being can have a connection to salvation and human concerns in general, if salvation is correctly understood.

    Such a God is “all in all” – that means, that literally everything that exists is either God or God in the mode of other than God becoming God. That means us humans are God in the mode of becoming God.

    That has implications for how we understand our true natures and the true ends of human life.

    In this scheme, our true end is to realize our union with God, which would be salvation. It is in a way an ontological quest that realizes the essence of our being.

    In theologies that understand God this way (most classic ones), it’s believed that man has a “natural” desire to realize union with God, because only that fulfills his true nature.

    I know you don’t see it this way, but I think the feeling you get from nature is you encountering God, and it’s among the most satisfying feelings of your life, I understand.

    Anyways this is just the briefest of sketches, and you and Bashi seem to have laid you’re conversation to rest on amicable terms.

    For my part, as long as you continue your forays into the wilderness and climb mountains, you’re worshipping God better than most of us here 🙂

  329. @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Do you also digest others’ food for them instead of just inviting them to eat ?

    Let people first decide whether they are starving before force-feeding them.

    🙂

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
  330. @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    These conversations are bedeviled by people arguing from different and mutually incompatible modes – modern people tend to always argue from the scientific mode, which deals with events in time and space, but religious language is metaphysical, which deals with the structure of reality (what is prior to time and space and structures it).

    In a way, this is the very crux of the matter – as modern nihilism may be defined as the loss of any mode outside of that relating to events within time and space.

    In this connection it’s worth recalling how naturalism as a philosophy came into existence (the belief that only nature exists as a complete system in itself).

    Empiricism was developed as a technique, and a technique is a special exclusion of non relevant considerations in order to obtain a very specific set of results. In order to obtain certain information about events and objects in space and time in order to control them more consistently, metaphysics was not an immediately relevant consideration.

    The first scientists, like Newtown and Kepler, remained fascinated by metaphysics and wrote reams on it. Gradually, however, what was excluded by choice at the outset from the new technique came to be the basis of a new metaphysics. Which is really weird if you stop and think about it.

    But I think the practice and habit of artificially narrowing your mental focus carry with it certain clear dangers – (Mcgilchrist is relevant here) – and perhaps the ability to practice science extensively while holding in mind that it is just a technique was something that was bound to be largely lost except among certain exceptional people.

    Perhaps in the future culture that will emerge, it will be recognized that technique itself is dangerous – it can modify the human mind – and must be handled with care. And this hindsight knowledge will be added to the stock of human wisdom. Perhaps no one will be allowed to practice science without reading poetry in the evening, and taking regular weeks off to visit nature 🙂

    As for naturalism, it is an incoherent philosophy. It can’t explain the existence of the world. Godel’s incompleteness theorem might be recalled here.

    So naturalism must posit the world as a random absurdity – which is just another way of saying I can’t logically explain the world.

    Logically, this is by no means preferable to the metaphysical arguments for the ground of all being.

    Of course, as a kind of heroic quixotic stubbornness, one may well choose to maintain the world is absurd – many of the French existentialists reveled in doing just that – but one should not kid oneself one is being superiorly logical by doing so.

    (Of course, here I mean naturalism as a positively held belief, and not agnosticism).

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  331. @Ivashka the fool

    Let people first decide whether they are starving before force-feeding them.

    You are of course right.

    It’s never a good idea to give people what they did not ask for, and every spiritual tradition warns against this in some way. And talking about this stuff is not experiencing it, which is primary.

    I confess it’s a besetting vice of mine.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
  332. @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I confess it’s a besetting vice of mine.

    Une faute avouée est à moitié pardonnée…

    🙂

    • Thanks: HeavilyMarbledSteak
  333. Sher Singh says:

    [MORE]

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  334. RSDB says:
    @AP

    The Church has nothing to say AFAIK

    Do not presume this. Please bring these propositions to your priest. He is your shepherd, and I am not. Again, you do not have to tell us about it. You don’t have to take his advice but please get it. It will take less time than you have spent on it on here. He might tell you it’s none of his business. What will you have lost?

    I will say again, at the risk once again of overstepping the bounds of politeness, you may be in grave peril. I am not just saying this for some rhetorical effect.

    This board is a place for light entertainment and idle gossip. You would not make a medical diagnosis on here, for obvious reasons. This is far more serious.

    Then we can all have fun arguing again.

    • LOL: Sher Singh
  335. RSDB says:
    @Barbarossa

    Perhaps I made a mistake in suspending argument, but I think it’s better to err in that direction than in the direction of frivolity. Too many words …

    It’s strange, I was planning a response around the usual lines, and then somehow I ended up saying something completely different.

  336. A123 says: • Website
    @songbird

    It’s kind of blackpilling to think that you could have O’Neill cylinders and jumpgates and an area like Downbelow inhabited by the dregs of society.

    What a bleak vision of the future!

    Any collection of people = people. Add technology:

    ⦾ Stone age… Still people
    ⦾ Iron age… Still people
    ⦾ Space age… Still people
    ⦾ “Trek Tech” like replicators… How many people would key up recreational chemicals?

    Technology does not make people better.
    ___

    I find the entire poor/rich sinners conversation baffling.

    • Rich sinners create damage on an epic scale, such as Harvey Weinstein & Bernie Madoff.
    • Many of the poorest, homeless sinners could be helped by reopening mental health facilities.
    • Making workers poorer has been incredibly destructive.

    Remember when a family with one working parent was the norm? And, that breadwinner could support spouse and children? It is much easier for a child to fall into sin when there is not a parent looking after them.

    Industrial, trade, and migration policies that restore the value of work & traditional family structure would do much to fix society’s problems.
    ___

    As a side note. Every public High School should be required to have a rifle range and mandatory firearms class. Sher Singh would likely approve. Probably Barbarossa too. Weapons are fundamentally tools. Everyone should understand and respect them.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool, RSDB
  337. @A123

    Technology does not make people better.

    I have heard a couple of times people wonder about how is it possible for religion to survive in our times with all the “scientific knowledge” and “technological advances”.

    I think it could be explained by pointing to the word religion having its origin in the Latin religare which meant “establishing a bond”, “linking”.

    Religion connects, links, establishes a bond between incomplete human nature and that which has the potential to make this human nature of ours more complete and perfect.

    In any day and age, under any social system and with any possible technology, humans will still be incomplete and perfectible, therefore religion will still be a part of human experience.

    The only way to “kill” religion (some would probably write “cure” instead of “kill”) would be to make humans entirely oblivious of their shortcomings and imperfections. We’re nearly there, but not quite.

    • Agree: Coconuts
  338. Coconuts says:
    @Mikel

    By God I mean the being described in the Abrahamic and other monotheist religions with a profound connection to us, humans. So profound that He send us prophets and even His own son to redeem us and change our behaviors.

    I thought we were talking about the first cause, necessary being etc. not God as he is presented in specific religious traditions or by philosophers like Kant. (I see Bashi has already made this point).

    But, are you interested in politics and issues about patriarchal authority here?

    The claim that the Universe, contrary to what top cosmologists like Hawkings, Sean Carrol or Brian Greene think, cannot be conceived without a first cause or unconditional reality is much more modest.

    I also thought the arguments being discussed started from premises about the existence of change, the existence of objects with more than one part, whether the existence of contingent facts and entities has an explanation, not about cosmology as such.

    It only deals with the nature of reality but has no particular significance by itself for hominids on planet Earth or any other species anywhere else.

    Say, if causation is generative in the Aristotleian sense the first cause has a lot to do with hominids and everything else. Or if it must be present in virtue of a principle of sufficient reason. These things have nothing to do with spatial location or physical size of entities and things like that.

    At least from my own pov, I don’t judge it to be modest to pass off Empiricist Naturalism or Kantian metaphysics (or worse something like Logical Positivism) as if they were just common sense and can’t be rationally doubted.

    Whether the Big Bang was put in motion spontaneously or caused by an unconditioned reality, no salvific intervention follows for a species that appeared much later in a remote corner of the resulting Universe.

    As I said above I don’t think whether God exists is dependent on whether God wants to save humanity or these questions about spatial location.

  339. Coconuts says:
    @Mikel

    Contrary to what you said, I don’t belong to any belief system or community that I need to defend.

    Iirc Aristotle is supposed to have said something like ‘the man who is part of no community would be no man and would either be a beast or a god’. I think all communities form for some end or purpose, in pursuit of some idea of the good.

    This may be why lately this idea is looking increasingly probable again:

    Politics is just the religion people actually believe in.

  340. Wokechoke says:
    @Mikhail

    I don’t mind that she’s a hypocrite but she appears to be a blithering moron/giggling idiot. Greta “I own 100 private jets” Thunberg.
    Metzger was right about the Eurocops doing arrests softly. After the Rhodes Statue protest in Oxford a pack of coons started to breakdance and surrounded a couple of cops demanding they kneel. The cops counter break danced and kneeled like good PR flacks.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  341. @Ivashka the fool

    I have heard a couple of times people wonder about how is it possible for religion to survive in our times with all the “scientific knowledge” and “technological advances”.

    From a technological perspective, the most reasonable answer would be that gods have been some highly advanced alien civilization, not some pan-Cosmic or pan-Earth immanent deity like Gaia . For reasons unknown, religious people generally do not like this idea, not even pagans really: well, you could say they prefer Nature to Technique….or is that about that humans would feel somehow conned when gods would be just beings more advanced than them…? When I once suggested to a religious, Church-going man that angels could be UFOs, he vehemently insisted that UFOs must be demons. Why such enmity to UFOs? And that, despite me bringing up the words of Pope Francis, who I think two years ago said around Christmas (when there was this strange, “alien” Christmas crib in Vatican) that it is entirely likely that in Universe beings exist in “full communion with Our Creator”.

  342. RSDB says:
    @AP

    why to you, it does not seem safe to do so?

    Fair enough.

    [MORE]

    The danger lies in the frivolity of the exercise. When you confess your sins each week or whenever as much as possible by kind and number, you could just as easily draw up a running chart showing your change in total sinfulness from week to week or year to year (do you do this?); most people including me would consider that absurd, but it might at least have a laudable object and you have a right to be interested in the state of your own soul.

    I never heard of any recommendation for the examination of conscience that involved giving oneself a total sinfulness score on a scale of 1 to 100 but one might be out there, although I doubt it.

    When you do the same with other people for the amusement of comparison or to make some point online, you are concerning yourself with something that is none of your concern, and doing it for an entirely frivolous object. That you are doing it with an extremely leaky method, to say the least, is almost an afterthought, but it doesn’t help.

    Do not keep arguing on here about this. Take these propositions to your priest. As I said, if you do that, if you like I will take these propositions to a sociologist as sociological questions, although they are not questions any sociologist would take seriously.

    • Thanks: AP
    • Replies: @AP
  343. @Ivashka the fool

    Ukrainian is arguably the most melodic Slavic language. That’s why Ukrainian songs were so popular in the USSR. Shame on the scum who made it associate with their parochial quasi Nazism, defaming a beautiful language.

  344. songbird says:

    Zeihan predicts disappearance of Ukrainian ethnicity in 20-30 years:

    [MORE]

    begins at about 7:24

    • Replies: @AP
  345. @Ivashka the fool

    There is nothing specifically Russian about it. The lab where I was a post-doc many years ago had a Chinese graduate student who, when she could not answer the question, used what we called “quick mumble “.

  346. @Mikhail

    Ukrainian win is a fairly tale for the most gullible sheeple. The only purpose of supplying Ukraine with arms is to force the RF to spend as much resources as possible to weaken it. The war is between the US and the RF, Ukraine is a pawn, not a player.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  347. songbird says:
    @A123

    “Trek Tech” like replicators… How many people would key up recreational chemicals?

    Now there is an interesting line of thought. I recall that in Star Trek, they implied that people stopped watching TV, but I don’t think they ever explained why, that I can recall.

    [MORE]

    If I had to think about Bab5 in a technical way, I’d suppose that Earth would want to set it up as some Potemkin village, to show their strengths to aliens and not their weaknesses. But maybe it is a mistake to think too technically.

    I will give them points for counter-signaling Star Trek’s idea of no money. At worst, ST should have had UBI.

    • Rich sinners create damage on an epic scale, such as Harvey Weinstein & Bernie Madoff.
    • Many of the poorest, homeless sinners could be helped by reopening mental health facilities.
    • Making workers poorer has been incredibly destructive.

    All good points.

    Since we are having a discussion about sin: I don’t want to touch too much into controversial areas here, but I’ve always been baffled by what strikes me as the feminist conception that pedophilia is when any guy is interested in a woman <18.

    Whether the girl is 18 or 17 or 21, it is still a sin to abuse her, and I think this rhetoric of hyperbole only serves to make excuses for the fact.

    Every public High School should be required to have a rifle range and mandatory firearms class.

    I like the vision of self-pride where something like this would be possible. I remember being in school and at one point, they banned book-bags between classes, ostensibly for security purposes. Of course, it was just degrading theater-of-the-mind for paranoid lunatics.

    • Replies: @A123
  348. @AP

    I’m going to give this one more shot to get at the heart of the matter. Some of the points that I’d like to make in regards to the poor and sinfulness can perhaps be best communicated via a personal anecdote.

    A couple years ago, on my way to a jobsite I kept driving past a homeless guy who was set up on the side of the road pan-handling. I brought him some food one day and had a bit of a conversation with him. He seemed like a harmless enough guy, probably mid-60’s with a pretty fit and wiry build. A couple days later I decided to stop again and this time I offered him some work and a space to stay at my shop. He agreed and loaded his stuff into my big van for the ride back to my workshop. I set him up in my office with a futon, use of the microwave etc. and the plan for him to work on painting some of my barn the next day.

    The next day came and he procrastinated on really doing any work. Instead, he set up his chair outside the shop and worked on a seemingly endless supply of Keystone Light. He affable enough though ill at ease and finally asked to go back to where I picked him up from. So the next day as I made my way to the job-site I dropped him off supplied with a few basics and my phone number if he changed his mind.

    While driving with him he talked some about his past and he just seemed like a man who had been broken by the world. Unsuccessful in marriage, alcoholic, and unskilled in any particular trade, he found himself gradually falling a little further until he had nothing and no one left, settling for the easy solutions of mobility and cheap beer.

    A couple things stuck in my mind about the whole encounter, which hold true for most other interactions I’ve had with homeless people. One was his evident discomfort with being treated as a man, and not just an object of charity. He had an almost animal undercurrent of distrust or apprehension. In trying to treat him with some dignity it seemed like it was too uncomfortable for him.

    I really believe that a part of him truly wanted to take me up on my offer and that when he got into my van he really intended to do that work. However, when the time came to take that action it seemed like he was paralyzed by fear. Part of him could envision a different path, but he found himself unable or unwilling to push past that fear and give it a go. In the end it was too much of a difficult prospect and he could only revert to what he knew and was comfortable with.

    Was the man socially dysfunctional and self destructive? Undeniably yes. I have an extremely hard time saying that he was really a sinful man though. Sin’s seriousness is largely contingent upon intent and awareness. In John 9:40-41 Jesus spells this out.

    Some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard this, and they asked Him, “Are we blind too?” “If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains.”

    That homeless man seemed to me one who was blind. I truly think he was really doing the best that he could, given what he could muster within himself, but that life and whatever his circumstances had been had beaten him down so far that the prospect of change or taking me up on my offer was cripplingly petrifying. So, I take issue with judging that man or others like him of some empirical measure of sinfulness. We just don’t know that, we are not God, and we are explicitly instructed against this type of yardstick measurement. In the end I felt as though that man was worthy of my sympathy and my aid, but that I couldn’t find in myself to judge him. I just felt rather sad for him.

    So, I think if you want to make a discussion the social utility (or lack of) of homeless populations, the differences in IQ correlated to lack of self-control in homeless populations, or any number of similar angles then I think you can use the logical framework that you have adopted. As soon as you bring sin and associated ideas of relative spiritual worthiness into the equation then I react strongly to it as I see your empirical approach as being not only unapplicable, but also as RSDB says, spiritually dangerous.

    I would be more likely to see as morally culpable the people at the top who have systematically dismantled our moral and ethical frameworks which provided certain behavioral and social guardrails which may have helped someone like that maintain a healthier path in life.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack, Yahya, RSDB, AP
  349. songbird says:

    This could be done with giant beavers:

    [MORE]

  350. @Barbarossa

    To elaborate my last point, I think that many people, the majority really, absolutely need the guardrails and strictures of organized religion and social convention to function in a healthy way. I agree with much of what Heavily Marbled Steak may say, but sometimes I think he misses this fact.

    A certain minority of people may have or develop the spiritual and intellectual capacity to do the right thing simply because it is the right thing and not because it is a prescribed law. This is the state that Christ calls us to, “to live in Spirit and in Truth”. However, many are unable to reach this point and for those people the rules are necessary and good. They may be external, but they give signposts along the way to guide.

    When organized religion fails is when it stops at this point and progresses no further. Or even worse, when it holds people back from a closer experience of the Divine. This is essentially the state of the Jewish religion when Jesus found it. He insisted that there was more.

    Organized religions and laws are useful and necessary when they serve as moral training wheels but they must serve as a conduit for that deeper internal communion with the Divine (ie. the indwelling of the Holy Spirit). But even though such an intimate connection is the goal, many will never get to that point in this present life. That is okay and I don’t think that God holds it against them, but I think that AaronB should be cognizant that if all followed his rather anarchic and free-form spiritual path many would be destroyed spiritually and morally. Personally, I sympathize with much of what AaronB is saying and much of it mirrors my own understanding and path. However, I know from experience that it’s not possible or even advisable for everyone. To an extent, we all need the spiritual training wheels at one time or another and even if we progress deeper it doesn’t mean that we are freed from the more basic rules, just pursuing the good for its’ own sake and not because it is mandated.

  351. AP says:
    @songbird

    Don’t know the guy’s work but thanks for demonstrating that he is a fool who shouldn’t be taken seriously (assuming your summary is correct; I take you at your word).

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @songbird
  352. Wokechoke says:
    @AP

    He’s got several things wrong.

    But anyway, the Ukraine appears to be vanishing. The Ukraine is requesting that the EU repatriate their young men hiding from the Jew King of Kiev’s Draft because the situation is so critical.

    Moscow has 12 million inhabitants alone, so Zeihan is comparing apples to oranges. Kiev is limping along at 3 million tops. The UN suggests that Ukraine may be down to 25-30 million people.

    Warsaw is something like 2.5 million.

    Moscow is like a Mordorian population sink in more ways than one.

  353. Mikel says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    you and Bashi seem to have laid you’re conversation to rest on amicable terms.

    I don’t know why a religious conversation in the 21st century would have to lead to animosity, at least in this part of the world. People who are sure of their religious beliefs should rather feel pity for someone like me who lost his ability to believe and is unable to recover it. The most probable cause of animosity in such circumstances is the lack of security in those beliefs, I think, which leads to feeling threatened by the simple existence of someone disputing them.

    Besides, I hope not come across as a belligerent atheist, which I’m not. I have no interest whatsoever in convincing anyone about the sad nonexistence of God. On the contrary, I am asking for reasons to believe in it for myself and this inevitably leads to the explanation of my own views, that threaten nodody. In fact, my trying to understand how other people are able to believe means that I am open to the possibility of my being wrong. How many religious people here are open to the possibility that perhaps it is me who is right? Please raise your hands.

    Somehow, I thought that you wouldn’t be very sympathetic to attempts to reach God through purely logical arguments, like the one Ivashka presented. That looks very different to the kind of Taoist, experimental approach that you have been defending, if I understood you correctly. Aquinas, by the way, was quite an opposite figure to Lao-Zhe. He was in favor of the death penalty and the extermination of heretics.

    Gradually, however, what was excluded by choice at the outset from the new technique came to be the basis of a new metaphysics.

    I don’t think that’s exactly what happened. Science showed in a very compelling way, much more compelling than pure faith, that many of the things that the Church had been preaching for centuries were false. This inevitably led to doubting all the rest of the religious edifice. Science is inquisitive and skeptical by nature. The clash between science and established religion with immovable dogmas was unavoidable. But I do agree that science cannot totally substitute religion or metaphysics and that is how I think most scientists regard the matter today. Even when Hawkings or Greene reject the idea of God as the cause of the Big Bang, they are implicitly admitting that at that level of scientific inquiry, the existence of phenomena beyond physics is not immediately out of the question.

  354. Wokechoke says:

    I guess he had a commercial drivers license and was picked to drive a Lend-Lease Leopard?

  355. A123 says: • Website
    @songbird

    “Trek Tech” like replicators… How many people would key up recreational chemicals?

    Now there is an interesting line of thought.

    I recall that in Star Trek, they implied that people stopped watching TV, but I don’t think they ever explained why, that I can recall.

    Hmmm…. Making TV and movies is quite hard. It probably exists at a fan production level. However, gathering enough talented people to make professional grade works likely became infeasible without the lure of money. Can you imagine working on the tragic $1 Billion horror that is Amazon’s Rings of Power if you had any other choice?

    ST:Enterprise had “Movie Night”. One of the films was Rosemary’s Baby

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Movie_night

    If I had to think about Bab5 in a technical way, I’d suppose that Earth would want to set it up as some Potemkin village, to show their strengths to aliens and not their weaknesses. But maybe it is a mistake to think too technically.

    That was probably the idea with Babylon 1 & 2. By the time the track record of screw ups reached Babylon 5 they were probably happy to open anything habitable. The next steps were declaring “Mission Accomplished” and rapidly moving on before something went BOOM.

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @songbird
  356. songbird says:
    @AP

    Zeihan often says very foolish things, that’s why he is entertaining, he’s not cautious, and not afraid to stick his neck out there. (even when he obviously has made big errors, recently). But I think his summary here is noteworthy for two reasons:

    [MORE]

    1.) he’s fairly aligned with the US State Department, when it comes to foreign policy, if not necessarily with his predictions. So, in broad strokes, though he has tried to maintain a superficially neutral facade (and often failed), he seems supportive of the war.

    Not sure how he would rationalize an uncompromising attitude, if he believes in a catastrophic demographic scenario. Ticking up the death totals and other casualties can’t be good for demographics. (Or, at least it probably isn’t good) And, if the people are doomed, then what is it all for?

    2.) His doomerist beliefs are provocative. Maybe, Ukraine and Russia aren’t really doomed, but they do have very big demographic problems (and Ukraine even moreso than Russia). How will they solve that, unless they acknowledge it? IMO, some level of doomerism is needed.

    In general, where he fails with demographics is he never touches the third rail of shifting racial groups in the US or Europe. But he has a good understanding of age cohorts, even if he is a bit too doomerist.

    And he also understands some things, like Russia has at least 4x the men to draw on, which makes a kill ratio of 3 to 1 Ukrainians to Russians (as many estimate for the current operations) really, really bad, and counterproductive.

    BTW, he predicts a shift in Spring to targeting agricultural and port infrastructure, with consequently massive negative effects in the Third World, and especially Egypt. He’s already predicted stuff like that, with it failing to materialize, but I do wonder what will happen if Russia shits attacks from the electrical grid.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  357. Wokechoke says:
    @songbird

    There’s going to be a 10-15 million strong metropolis like Moscow on the Eastern European plain (short of a nuclear strike on it, it’ll be Moscow playing that role) no matter what happens. That city will require a clear passage for goods into international waters serviced by a warm weather port. That means they have to have Kerch and Sevastopol.

    Kiev maxes out at 3.5 residents and simply isn’t suitable for that Megalopolitan role. it’ll have to concede Crimea to Russia. even if Russia’s population is contracting they will have a capital city of around 10-15 million citizens for the foreseeable future.

    • Replies: @songbird
  358. Dmitry says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    placed on a shelf right below AP

    You’re (with Bashibuzuk, Altan etc) the pro-religious anti-materialist side of the spectrum for this forum, AP is the anti-religious* and materialist side of the spectrum.

    In terms of the user interaction, I reply more to AP’s posts to higher percentage than any other user in the forum. So, you can see where the interests are in overlap between users.

    So, for example, Yahya is from Egypt. I don’t want to ask him about Islam or “future of the soul”, which we know Bashibuzuk is waiting to ask, but I would think probably boring.

    But I was waiting for polite time to ask for his food recommendations without stereotype him too much (the stereotype Arabs know more about food than even Italians) or what he thinks about el-Sisi, which e.g. Bashibuzuk will think probably boring.

    * Although seeing it only in terms of social utility means he is more tolerant than the other people here, about e.g. Mormons. There is the positive side of this viewpoint. But for people that are spiritual, it’s strange to see people viewing religion in terms of social and political utility, like saying to romantic people that “love is good because it reduced blood pressure”.

    • Replies: @Yahya
  359. @LondonBob

    Helmer et al are making a mountain out of a molehill. There’s a hotline between Washington and Moscow, no?

    Somebody in the White House is intelligent enough to write a script where Biden eats crow and apologizes to Putin and to the Russian nation. This ain’t rocket science. Also: nobody is going to do that anytime soon. This is like redirecting an oil tanker, not a a dirt bike.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  360. songbird says:
    @A123

    LOL. People often denounced that episode Code of Honor where they go to a planet of blacks, and one of them abducts Tasha, but I think the Irish episode is at least 100x more racist.

    [MORE]
    Haven’t seen it in a while, but let’s review:

    1.) they are luddites
    2.) covered in filth
    3.) drunks
    4.) only female character (a scold) drops her clothes for Riker at the drop of a hat
    5.) only male character henpecked by his daughter
    6.) they try to start a fire in a starship (and set up a still, bring farm animals)
    7.) father tries to sell his daughter to the captain.

    An impressive total, and not sure I covered everything. Anyway, as amusing as it is, it is not exactly my dream of an Irish planet.

    I think Voyager tried to make up for it with a more bucolic episode showing the charm of village life on the holodeck, but not a memorable episode as a whole.

    • Thanks: A123
  361. Dmitry says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    AB and Dima is not theological, but social and psychological.

    Trigger for the discussion about homeless people in America (i.e. social and psychological), but the points I was saying to AP after are just the objective facts about the religion. If someone writes the opposite of the mainstream teaching in e.g. catechism of the Catholic church.

    That is the discussion begins more subjectively. But the parts in the last few posts is objective.

    and also use Scripture to justify their take on these.

    Scripture and mainstream interpretation says the opposite of those takes. It doesn’t mean the takes are incorrect. But there is labeling – you know, there are regulations about this in areas like the food industry. In this forum, it’s a kind of rhetorical game, where I just skip reading those parts of his posts where there is incorrect labeling, as it’s not where the interesting content is (although AP has interesting point of view of the world, which is unusual and individual).

    defend “conservative values”, and sometimes use religious justifications to uphold these. They being younger and somewhat “Romantic” (to use Dima’s vocabulary), defend more “progressive social norms”

    AP defends “Anti-Christ”, or “pagan”, values, which is socially taboo to say publicly in Europe unless you are Hindu, because of the thousand year of Christian programming “this is not our way”.

    So, people can believe rich are better than poor, but they would feel a bit self-conscious to say publicly, because there is the religious programming, which continues also in secular culture. But AP doesn’t have this taboo and can throw old vegetables on the people below, from the palace walls.

    He has right for his view. Maybe he is correct and others incorrect. Maybe throwing vegetables is the valid behavior. Perhaps, religion is only social utility. If Mormons are socially useful, then perhaps we shouldn’t criticize their belief. Those pagan value system include both happy/optimistic and dark/gloomy side. It’s not reduced to conservative/progressive. In some areas, it can be more tolerant (e.g. his view about Mormons is more progressive than my view), in other areas it can be less progressive (e.g. in terms of redistribution).

    In the past, AP was usually focusing more on the happy/optimistic side of his values. After February, you can see he includes more of the dark/gloomy side, probably because the world events. This is interesting, because there is such dark and light side in any of the values, but the dark and light side will be in different areas. There are some of the side of viewing the morality in terms of self-interest, social utility, which feels less easy to accept.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @RSDB
  362. songbird says:
    @Wokechoke

    I agree. Pournelle and Niven’s vision from the ’70s or ’80s of a CoDominion, where the US and USSR formed an alliance to rule the world, may be a little out of date. But that doesn’t mean that Russia will give up Crimea.

    Short of the Poles going all-in and putting boots on the ground (which seems unlikely), hard for me to imagine a rollback to the 1991 borders.

    • Replies: @QCIC
  363. Dmitry says:
    @Ivashka the fool

    Kadyrov has tweeted that Muslims have already reached 25%

    Kadyrov can say many things. It doesn’t mean it is accurate. He is a mafia boss not a statistician. I don’t think is accurate at all. It seems wildly inaccurate.

    Although there is little of accurate data available in Russia, so many speculations cannot be disproved. For example, the census says there are 146 million people in the Russian Federation. But the real number of the population including Crimea, according to demographers – 141 million.

    Immigration flow is also ambiguous. In the last couple years, a large part of the total population of Tajikistan has immigrated to Russia. But whether they want to live in Russia is another question. It’s not Sweden, a large part of them will only be there for a temporary reason.

    In Ukraine, most people would be Slav

    After the war, Ukraine will be in the EU (perhaps in 15 years). A large part of their young population will go to Western Europe, many will choose there and become Swedish, French or Germans. In Ukraine, the population will become more homogenous Ukrainian, as only a small number of people with access to Schengen would want to immigrate there, while the trend of Ukrainian identity is becoming stronger.

    But there will be supervision to reform the legal system, to reduce corruption. This would increase the investment there. There will be investment to develop modern infrastructure in Ukraine. There will be remittances. The economy will develop in a more stable way, as common in all the new EU countries.

    So, their future in EU, will be like a country similar to Romania (if you optimistic) or Bulgaria (probably more realistic). It wouldn’t be a chaotic situation like Lebanon in the long term. In terms of population, Ukrainians are not Latvians.* They have a lot of people,** even if population density will be low.

    *Even Latvians are not Mohicans – a million people is a lot in historical terms. Ancient Sparta had a population of around 25,000 people and it was a superpower in those days.

    • Replies: @AP
  364. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Most Turks look like stereotypically Mediterranean people, sometimes they look like they have East Asian origin and some look like Northern Europeans.

    , none of them are close to the Irish.

    Visually (not culturally) a minority of Irish people could say they are Turkish and people will believe it as there is enough visual overlap. They just need some spray tan.

    You know the story about Alex Baldwin’s wife. She is a white woman from Boston and has English/Irish immigrant ancestry.

    But, being a white woman is unfashionable increasingly for New York, so she was acting Spanish to promote her career. She covered her skin with a lot of spray tank and adds black dye to her hair. All the journalists thought she was Spanish until 2020.

    Unfortunately for her identity change, she has 7 children and none has inherited her “Mediterranean skin”.

    • Replies: @LatW
    , @songbird
    , @Wokechoke
  365. LatW says:
    @Dmitry

    I know of a Celto-Nordo British coupling where the mother has pitch black hair with hazel eyes and tan skin (could pass for Mediterranean) and the father has dark hair and very pale skin and crystal blue eyes – they had two very fair children, a platinum blond daughter (who retained her platinum blonde hair into adulthood) and a blond boy whose hair turned dark in adulthood (both pale with light blue eyed).

    To me as an N.East Euro, where everyone has the same color pretty much, this is totally impossible to grasp (especially the blond blue eyed gene being so dominant in children). Granted, the father has some Norwegian genes (and mother some ancient Scots – Nordic ones).

    Btw, if you notice, many of those so called “black Irish” have very pale skin. I don’t get how the British can be so diverse.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  366. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    Visually (not culturally) a minority of Irish people could say they are Turkish and people will believe it as there is enough visual overlap. They just need some spray tan.

    Personally, I wouldn’t like to try to play a Circassian among the Turks.

    But I have wondered what might happen, if someone faked the national letterhead and applied to have Ireland join the Organization of Turkish States, as an observer (like Hungary), citing a connection to the Galatians.

    Blue-eyed female relative with light brown hair was in Italy, and they thought she was French, which seemed very surprising to me (why not British?), but then I thought of the paler type of French, and thought it was possible. I think there is an Atlantic skull-type.

    [MORE]

    Girl to the left of the thumbnail (right of main singer) here is pretty dusky, but, if I had to guess, I would suppose that she was not Irish (or at least not fully):

  367. A123 says: • Website

    This week’s Epic Game Store [EGS] freebie has an interesting premise: (1)

    Adios is a cinematic first-person game about sticking to a complicated decision.

    You’re a pig farmer in Kansas. It’s October. Cold, crisp mornings are the norm, and you have decided that you’re no longer okay with letting the mob use your pigs to dispose of bodies. When your old friend – a hitman – arrives with his assistant to deliver another body, you finally screw up the courage to tell them that you’re done.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/p/adios-b378b4

  368. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Agree with everything but this part:

    So, their future in EU, will be like a country similar to Romania (if you optimistic) or Bulgaria (probably more realistic

    Ukrainians are closest culturally, historically, educationally, geographically and genetically (the last is least important) to their Polish neighbors, so Ukraine would most likely follow the Polish path, although it will be 20 or so years behind Poland.

    Ideally Ukraine will return to the February 2022 borders. But the smaller it ends up being, the better off the remaining parts will be.

    Something you might not realize is that although millions have left Ukraine, the safer places in western Ukraine have gotten packed with refugees from eastern Ukraine who do not want to leave Ukraine but don’t want to get bombed. Lviv has about 150,000 additional people since the war started (before the war it’s population had been around 800,000). They are building many new neighborhoods in Lviv:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/31/arts/lviv-ukraine-refugee-housing.html

    A lot of the IT industry from Kharkiv has moved to Lviv. Some of it will stay there after the war, as will many refugees from areas that Russia has taken, who do not want to live in Russia but in Ukraine (one of my cousins has taken in people from Melitopol in her Lviv flat). In the extremely unlikely event that Kiev were to get occupied l by Russia, there would be a massive outflow of educated nationalistic people, and Lviv would easily top 1 million people with their settlement.

    Uzhhorod near the Hungarian border has seen a 30% increase in its population. Transcarpathia as a whole is now about 1/3 Ukrainian refugee. Many Hungarians (who have dual citizenship) have fled and their places taken by anti-Russian refugees. So the share of ethnic Hungarians in that province has really dropped and it’s becoming a more homogeneous Ukrainian one:

    https://www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/politics/caught-in-the-crossfire-can-transcarpathia-recover/

  369. Sher Singh says:
    @Mikel

    How many religious people here are open to the possibility that perhaps it is me who is right? Please raise your hands.

    https://www.manglacharan.com/post/three-paths-to-liberation-and-the-gobind-gita

    Sure, but thought of my own journey & it’s not explainable by religiosity (Brahmanism).
    Only violence,

    Ie went from street thug to professional soldier to Khalsa.

    The innate sense to fight for justice won out over the societal expectation to fight for $$.
    A moral code to fight for also allows pursuit of excellence in Warriorship above a mercenary.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

  370. songbird says:
    @AP

    Here’s a component map of Turkey:

    [MORE]

    Not really surprising that one can often perceive a difference between them and Greeks. Boers are generally about ~<5% and one can often perceive a difference in them.

  371. songbird says:

    Guide to Kulchur
    “You would have a far-Right government in every country in Europe”

    An item in the Swedish news caught my attention the other day.

    Swedish state TV was in Davos. They took the opportunity to interview Alex Karp, head of tech company Palantir.

    Palantir has developed AI technology for American intelligence agencies and now they’re working with Ukrainian military to counter the Russian invasion.

    What caught my attention was an offhand comment Karp made about a completely different topic…

    After the mandatory cringe COVID fist-bump, he tells the reporter about one of his AI products:

    “This product has stopped major terror attacks multiple times every year… And I believe… One of the things I’m most proud of is that… if those terror attacks had happened, you would have a far-Right government in every single country in Europe… and especially in the [Nordic countries].”

    https://t.me/s/guidetokulchur

  372. QCIC says:
    @songbird

    I think the CoDominium will still work out. The US will have to figure out the Mexican problem. More trials and tribulations will ensure worldwide. A few countries will be glassed. Then presto, Russia and the USA will work on equal terms colonizing the solar system together.

    What’s not to like?

    • Replies: @QCIC
    , @songbird
  373. AP says:
    @Barbarossa

    You are a very good man who in this case has done a very good deed.

    Was the man socially dysfunctional and self destructive? Undeniably yes. I have an extremely hard time saying that he was really a sinful man though. Sin’s seriousness is largely contingent upon intent and awareness.

    The man you described was probably aware that he was deceiving the people from whom he was panhandling – they were assuming he would spend it on food or shelter, not at the nearby liquor store. And he was probably aware that he was harming his body with his actions.

    This does not make him a bad person, nor diminish his worth as a person. The guy is basically harmless to others, of course. He probably even does a favor to the people whom he deceives – they feel good about giving money because they think they are feeding someone with it, even though they are actually giving money to a liquor store for the purpose of poisoning another human being (or do a drug dealer for the same purpose).

    But he is doing something wrong and ought to be helped.

    Through work I’ve spoken at length to about four people who panhandle with those signs near highway exit intersections (that I know of). In every case they say that they wait out there until they have enough to buy a bottle of liquor, then their “workday” is done and they “party.” Food is often gotten for free outside restaurants, and they know where to do go for free food at church kitchens. They generally don’t use money on food, but on alcohol or drugs.

    As soon as you bring sin and associated ideas of relative spiritual worthiness

    AaronB brought it into the equation by claiming that the homeless were more virtuous than the working people who marry and have families; I pointed out that they were more likely to engage in sinful behavior and supported my claim by empirical evidence of sinful behavior.

    but also as RSDB says, spiritually dangerous

    It seems to be spiritually dangerous for a lot of people to support the removal of what you describe as guardrails, and to promote behaviors that involve harming oneself and others. That is, to claim that sins are virtues and that virtues are hypocrisy or controlling behaviors.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
  374. QCIC says:
    @QCIC

    Replace “ensure” with “ensue”.

  375. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    AP defends “Anti-Christ”, or “pagan”, values

    The only Orthodox Christian person here defends my arguments.

    But AP doesn’t have this taboo and can throw old vegetables on the people below, from the palace walls.

    AP wants to, and does, help the people below. It is an obligation to do so. At the same time, reality is what it is. In our society, formed by Christianity for over a thousand years, values are such that people at the bottom tend to engage in worse behaviors than those who are better off. Unlike in the case of Jesus’ time, prosperous people in the Christendom did not come by their wealth through conquest and enslavement, or through taxing widows and poor people. They are not likely to be wicked people. An analogue to the time of Christ might be the post-Soviet world, that could be more applicable.

    AP is the anti-religious* and materialist side of the spectrum….But for people that are spiritual, it’s strange to see people viewing religion in terms of social and political utility, like saying to romantic people that “love is good because it reduced blood pressure”.

    I write from this perspective because it is something that can observed. So I once told our former host that it is good from a utilitarian POV to protect the lives of people with Down’s syndrome because they help others to be better people and besides that families who do not abort such children tend to have many healthy normal children too; he is not AFAIK a Christian, so it would make no sense to appeal to the Christian idea that all people have inherent value regardless of disability. But both are true.

    It would be silly to say to a romantic person that love is good because it reduces blood pressure, but what about to a non-romantic person? Then it would be appropriate.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  376. songbird says:
    @QCIC

    What’s not to like?

    Even monarchist planets for AP.

    [MORE]

    I definitely do think that a lot of people are writing Russia off as a civilization way too soon. I mean, like Zeihan is saying that it is going to implode, but he also says that of China and a lot of other countries. Says that it isn’t true of the US, which, even if it never goes bang, is displaying increasingly worrying signs – like for instance that recent judicial nominee, not even pretending to know or care about the Constitution.

    I get nostalgic for Cold War culture myself, when the West wasn’t obviously ghey (well, maybe putting aside some things) and self-hating.

    And it’s instructive in itself how a lot of these sci-fi authors got things very wrong about the future, and how nobody predicted the fall of the Berlin Wall. Think it is safe to say that it is hard for anyone to predict too far out. Wasn’t too long ago that it seemed like Russia and the US were going to be good friends.

    • Replies: @S
  377. AP says:
    @RSDB

    The context of the discussion was another poster’s belief that our Christian society is bad and ought to be dismantled and that people such as the homeless are like the early saints – more virtuous and Christlike because they reject the social system in which they live. It is better to be more like them and awful to want to help them to change.

    I don’t think it is frivolous to challenge such a claim, to oppose this nihilistic post-modernism that denigrates virtues and applauds vice.

    So I challenged it by pointing out that our society is very different than the one in Christ’s time – our prosperous and middle classes and our homeless “rebels” are very different from the non-poor and poor of Christ’s time.*

    And I supported my claim by describing measurable behaviors.

    *In our Christian world the well off and middle classes came by their money through work and they give generously to the poor (privately, plus through taxes they have chosen through elected government) and often to the Church, whereas in Christ’s time they came by their wealth through conquest, enslavement, or parasitic tax collection and viewed the poor as not being their concern.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  378. A123 says: • Website

    Must Watch PV [MORE]

    Project Veritas
    @Project_Veritas
    SHOCKING: @Pfizer Director Physically Assaults @JamesOKeefeIII & Veritas Staff; Destroys iPad Showing Undercover Recordings About “Mutating” Covid Virus; NYPD RESPONDS!

    “I’m just someone who’s working in a company that’s trying to literally help the public.”

    “You fu*ked up!”

    The Leftoids who praise BLM, BDS, and Antifa sure get worked up when their tactics are used against them.

    PEACE 😇

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Barbarossa
  379. A123 says: • Website
    @A123

    ADDENDUM

    The reply chain on the tweet is priceless.

     

     

    It does not get any better than that.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
  380. Wokechoke says:
    @Dmitry

    Jet black hair, blue eyes and pale skin is a British Isles trait. They also pop out blonde children!

    • Replies: @S
  381. Wokechoke says:

    tap the drum and jingle the jangly xylophone etc…The Big Cats are back in the Donbass.

    Auf der Heide blüht ein kleines Blümelein
    Und das heißt
    Erika
    Heiß von hunderttausend kleinen Bienelein
    Wird umschwärmt
    Erika
    Denn ihr Herz ist voller Süßigkeit
    Zarter Duft entströmt dem Blütenkleid
    Auf der Heide blüht ein kleines Blümelein
    Und das heißt
    Erika
    In der Heimat wohnt ein blondes Mägdelein
    Und das heißt
    Erika
    Dieses Mädel ist mein treues Schätzelein
    Und mein Glück
    Erika
    Wenn das Heidekraut rot-lila blüht
    Singe ich zum Gruß ihr dieses Lied
    Auf der Heide blüht ein kleines Blümelein
    Und das heißt
    Erika
    In mein’m Kämmerlein blüht auch ein Blümelein
    Und das heißt
    Erika
    Schon beim Morgengrau’n sowie beim Dämmerschein
    Schaut’s mich an
    Erika
    Und dann ist es mir, als spräch’ es laut
    “Denkst du auch an deine kleine Braut?”
    In der Heimat weint um dich ein Mägdelein
    Und das heißt
    Erika

  382. Wokechoke says:

    “Boys too man boys”

    “First fight will make them men!”

    “Back in the day we would live together for six months before going off into combat…”

    “they’ll die for you.”

  383. songbird says:
    @A123

    High probability that the West’s embrace of gays has made corporate espionage easier.

    • Replies: @A123
  384. A123 says: • Website
    @songbird

    High probability that the West’s embrace of gays has made corporate espionage easier.

    Extorting someone with accepted, even rewarded, behaviour cannot be be a liability Those who are secretly heterosexual might be at risk…

    One can imagine two het guys getting together to watch football reporting to the corporation that they are engaging in an illicit liaison behind their wives’ backs.

    PEACE 😇

  385. songbird says:
    @A123

    Those who are secretly heterosexual might be at risk…

    LOL. Though, I honestly suspect that gays are more effusive when you put the right bait in front of them. (Think of it roughly like a female brain in the body of a man) Could be wrong, but also what is significantly different is that they are a protected class, and probably rightly believe they can get away with more. Plus don’t have the same pressures of not disgracing their family, or losing their income.

    Not to mention, a regular guy might fear that he’d be me-tooed, if he met alone with some hot woman.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  386. @Mikel

    Don’t worry, you don’t come across as a militant atheist at all. I would characterize you as an honest skeptic. I think it’s an honorable position and I would only think less of you if you feigned a faith that you do not possess. Perhaps some day you will find that faith finds you or perhaps not, either way if you keep an open mind it’s all that can be asked.

    Personally, I seem to find myself incapable of not having faith. This is due to my own experiences in life which are rather worthless in convincing another person one way or another, especially in a venue like this.

    To answer your question I do absolutely admit the possibility that you are correct about God. In life their is rarely any empirical certainty on one’s beliefs. Perhaps I’m deluded, or insane, or have leapt to wrong conclusions. It’s impossible to dismiss the possibility since somebody has to be wrong in this life. I would be inclined to say that anyone of faith who says that they do not also doubt is being disingenuous.

    But at the same time I’m not sure that genuine faith could exist without that occasional doubt. Those doubts cause one to examine their faith critically and a failure or fear to do so would cause faith to become a parody of itself; a mere convention rather than a search for ultimate truth.

    • Thanks: Mikel
  387. RSDB says:
    @Dmitry

    To be fair to AP, I don’t think he would be throwing vegetables at anybody, unless it was a starving vegetarian.

    • LOL: Barbarossa
  388. @AP

    Thanks for the kind words, but I don’t think that I really did much for the guy. Hopefully he found a better way at some point. I feel a bit embarrassed by my recounting of the experience. Hopefully it didn’t come across as grandstanding or fishing for praise.

    It seems to be spiritually dangerous for a lot of people to support the removal of what you describe as guardrails, and to promote behaviors that involve harming oneself and others. That is, to claim that sins are virtues and that virtues are hypocrisy or controlling behaviors.

    We can heartily agree on that.

    In the end, I guess I’ve made all the points I can on the matter and so will let it lie. Whatever the causes, hopefully we can be made of service to help the people in these situations that come across our paths.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  389. Sher Singh says:

    Karlin Discord niggas be like:

    [MORE]

    “Politics is just violence” – rant in response

    Response:

    Never actually called any women whores. Just said it’s a larp to call yourself Aryan Indo-European & not follow the religion(s). The response is just Atheist Cultural Christianity/Wignattery.

    Noticed there was still active discussion about me almost a month after my ban.
    Went in there to find screenshots & searched my name.
    Not going to post the worst one

    🤷‍♀️ ⚔️

    • LOL: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @songbird
  390. @Mikel

    Of course it should never lead to animosity:) It never should have historically either.

    I like the Asian religious model of tolerance and syncretism and blurry boundaries, in which religions are all held to point to the same Truth but offer different paths to people with different temperaments.

    In China, everyone was said to be a little bit Buddhist, a little bit Taoist, and a little bit Confucian. When Buddhism first came to China, people simply considered it an Indian version of Taoism – indeed there were some nativist voices that called for rejecting this “foreign import”, but on the whole, the pragmatic and syncretist genius of the Chinese won out and integrated it into the fold.

    Thailand is ostensibly Buddhist – but everywhere you go in Bangkok there are shrines and status to Hindu gods. Practically every hotel has this elaborate and wonderful shrine to Brahma which I always used to love examining. And thousands of lovely “spirit houses” paying respect to the local spirits are everywhere, adding a significant animist layer to the local syncretism.

    I am a huge fan of such syncretism and blurry boundaries 🙂 Perhaps we can add Atheism to the syncretist vision as well – it’s a big tent 🙂

    Indeed, there are kinds of atheism that are more spiritual than some kinds of religion (like that of AP).

    As for intellectualism, you’re quite correct that my favored approach is experiential and contemplative rather than intellectual.

    Indeed, when I first started reading David Bentley Hart I was put off by his extremely elaborate intellectualism – I had just come off reading Mcgilchrist – but he ended up winning me over. I found an unexpected beauty and cogency in his intellectualism and began to see the grandeur of the ancient metaphysical traditions, although my approach is still experiential.

    But there is a lath for all of us.

    As for you, you certainly don’t come off as dogmatic and intolerant at all – I actually agree with your rejection of the way religion has come to be interpreted in modern times, as factual and literal and dogmatic. Certainly if you take “created in six days” literally then that kind of thing can’t survive on the modern world.

    But to my gratification, the ancient religions never understood it this way until modern times.

    As for Thomas Aquinas, you are correct he is very much not my cup of tea – he seems to have been a moral monster, who thought the righteous would enjoy seeing sinners writhe in hell, and thought the perfection if creation required some to suffer and be damned. This is a significant deterioration from ancient Christianity, and infinitely inferior to Mahayana Buddhism with it’s beautiful vision of the Bodhisattva who refuses Nirvana to eventually save every last sentient being. Thomism was a huge disaster in Western Christianity. For all that, some of his metaphysical arguments are interesting.

    Well, I definitely appreciate your willingness to strike a bold and uncompromising skeptical stance, and you should continue as long as this seems satisfying to you – it does not create any hard feelings jn me.

    And we should talk more about our wilderness forays really….

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    , @Mikel
  391. @Barbarossa

    I like your comment overall, and appreciate your anecdote about that homeless person.

    The only thing I wonder about, is whether it’s possible to see that guy as someone who was more suited to the contemplative path, but who could not find his way to it in the modern world.

    Perhaps, he was someone who in Wordsworth’s words ” the world was too much for him” – that is, the modern world of machines, industry, business, money, competition, etc. Wordsworth certainly thought there might be something wrong with the modern world he saw emerging in his time.

    And perhaps there was a part of him that wanted to do a certain amount decent, minimal work, but who was afraid that once he set out on that path the modern world of work would swallow him whole.

    I once worked in my 20s at a job that was very highly paid, but rather soul crushing. I would take frequent time off to devote to what really mattered to me (the money was high enough to let me do that), but one time, I noticed that as the months passed I didn’t hate the work so much – but also, that something in me was dying, and I was losing touch with Beauty. I got scared, and quit.

    Of course, I also agree with you that most average people do well with structure and guidelines and signposts, and the total loss of these in modern times has been a disaster. And it’s possible that homeless guy was merely a casualty of this.

    In the end, I think society should be a pyramid – a solid foundation of traditional values, family, reasonable work, etc, leading up to the higher spiritual pursuits at the apex.

    I would only say that in modern times, the obsession with work and money has dis-ordered the solid foundation away from “reasonable”, satisfying work towards frenetic modern work, and that “apex spirituality”, which sheds it’s light back onto the solid foundation, has been lost.

    What I’m advocating for really is an expanded, more inclusive vision – and not an either/or type thing.

    But overall good comment and thanks for sharing.

    • Agree: Sher Singh, Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  392. S says:
    @songbird

    And it’s instructive in itself how a lot of these sci-fi authors got things very wrong about the future, and how nobody predicted the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Kubrick in his 1968 film 2001; A Space Odyssey seems to hint that there had been a rapprochement between the East and West in the future, ie there is no mention of Communism, though the fate of the Berlin Wall is not specifically addressed.

    • Replies: @songbird
  393. LondonBob says:
    @songbird

    A lot to be said for the theory of the female egg and male egg in the womb merging with female traits remaining.

    Of course it is also a mental illness.

    https://kirkegaard.substack.com/p/homosexuality-is-a-mental-illness

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  394. LondonBob says:
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Maybe, but Helmer is one of the better informed commentators, haven’t seen the Wapo article discussed elsewhere yet. Ignatius has always been a mouthpiece for the CIA and/or State Department, so it was certainly an interesting article to publish.

    http://johnhelmer.org/blinken-explainer-nuland-too/#more-70544

  395. Sher Singh says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
    kha(n)ddaa pirathamai saaj kai jin sabh saisaar upaiaa ||
    At first the Lord created the double-edged sword and then He created the whole world.

    Sure, but that multiplicity still requires firm core principles.

    1. Ban Cow Slaughter
    2. Reject those who reject that multiplicity (schismatic monotheists)

    ਚਾਰੇਯੁਗਕਹਾਣੀਚਲਗਤੇਗ਼ਦੀ

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
  396. @Ivashka the fool

    I know it sounds atheist, but in reality it’s agnostic: there are too many gods to take them seriously.

  397. Sher Singh says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    You should be sacrificed atop a pyramid for having a name which insults the Gods||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

  398. @Sher Singh

    We can reject the schismatic monotheists, but then we become just like them, or we can with compassion and love guide them back into connection with their own ancient traditions, which are syncretic. Even ancient Judaism was an amalgam of ancient Near Eastern myths common to the whole region, Zoroastrianism, and later, Greek and Muslim elements. Maimonides for instance was a huge admirer of Aristotle, and used him heavily in developing his own philosophy, and 12th century Spanish Jewish theologians – who today still are part of the classic Orthodox cannon and widely read – consciously borrowed from the Sufis, and were not ashamed to admit it.

    Yet today my Orthodox Jewish friends get angry at me if I quote from any source outside Judaism and tell me Judaism has nothing to learn from anyone and in fact it was Judaism that taught all these foreign religions in ancient times 🙂

    It is mere petty chauvinism, and completely alien to the various classical ages of Judaism, and purely a corruption of modern times. Older Jewish thinkers would have laughed at this.

    It is the loss of dimension common to modern times. One of the most popular and beloved medieval Christian fables in Europe was actually about the Buddha and imported from Asia, the story of Barlaam and Josaphat 🙂 So similar in outlook was Medieval Christianity and Buddhism in medieval times.

    Today, seminal thinkers like David Bentley Hart are working to restore this ancient ecumenism and fighting against the modern scientific spirit of “strict boundaries” – while a firm and committed Orthodox Christian, he is not afraid to admit he draws heavily on Asian traditions, and writes frequently on Hinduism and Buddhism.

    And let’s not forget that this chauvinist rejectionism is today making serious headway in the Hinduism of India under Modi, and various Buddhist sects, most notably in Burma.

    It is a common modern problem we will all have to face and overcome.

    As for eating of the cow, let’s not forget that mere survival is not the purpose of life, and as long as the cow is permitted to live a reasonable time and treated with compassion and respect (we should utterly reject factory farming), it may find it’s deepest fulfillment in life by providing nourishment to other beings, in an interconnected world where all is Atman. Am I not after all just eating myself? 🙂 After all, I hope to be eaten by other life forms after I die and am happy to – in Tibetan Buddhism, corpses are often fed to vultures stop cliffs. It’s beautiful. Why should cows, especially heavily marbled ones, be exempt from this beautiful circle of life?

    As for the double edged sword, perhaps on Sikhism it wasn’t meant literally but was more of a metaphor for the sword of spirituality?

    Don’t sink into modern literalism…

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    , @Sher Singh
  399. Sher Singh says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Your entire spirituality is an attempt to escape the world & its authority and discipline.
    Why do you not also sleep with your mother? Many Jews in the time of Jesus did.
    Part of your cowardice & escapism is believing everyone can be convince or embraced.
    The logical conclusion of this is a fear of death & denial of liberation through war.

    The Christian who dies defending his faith has understood the true nature of existence.

    https://www.manglacharan.com/post/protection-of-cows-guru-hargobind-and-guru-gobind-singh

    [MORE]

    Without Rule – Religion has not prospered
    Without Religion there is no confusion
    – Guru Gobind Singh

    The Singh is born from weapons, but is also a Saint.

    As for the double edged sword, perhaps on Sikhism it wasn’t meant literally but was more of a metaphor for the sword of spirituality?

    Why do you hate the Kirpan which is a physical sword used for a spiritual purpose?

    https://www.manglacharan.com/post/meaning-of-miri-piri-guru-hargobind-sahib-ji

    ਧਰੇ ਤੇਜ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬਚ ਕਹੇ । ਹਮ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਹਿਤ ਜੁਗ ਅਸਿ ਗਹੇ । ਇਕ ਤੇ ਲੇਂ ਮੀਰਨਿ ਕੀ ਮੀਰੀ । ਦੂਸਰ ਤੇ ਪੀਰਨਿ ਕੀ ਪੀਰੀ ।੨੨।⁣⁣⁣
    The Guru valiantly replied, “For this reason I have adorned two [swords], One is a signifier of the Sovereignty over all Empires [Miran Ki Miri], and the other is a signifier of the Power of Spirituality [Piran Ki Piri]. ⁣⁣⁣
    ⁣⁣⁣
    ਮੀਰੀ ਪੀਰੀ ਦੋਨੋਂ ਧਰੈਂ । ਬਚਹਿ ਸਰਨਿ ਨਤੁ ਜੁਗ ਪਰਹਰੈਂ ।⁣⁣⁣
    I represent both Sovereignty and Spirituality; coming under My sanctuary you may be saved, if not we will take both away from you.”⁣⁣⁣

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

  400. Sher Singh says:
    @Sher Singh

    Singhs receive initiation through Khande Di Pahul (Nectar of the double edged sword)

    correction of previous post

    Raaj Bina Dharma Na Challey
    Dharma Bina Sab Dalley Malley

    Without Raaj, Dharma has not prospered
    Without Dharma there is confusion

    Guru Gobind Singh

    You lust for the flesh of the cow more than you yearn freedom from modernity.

    [MORE]

    Now, what you lack is Sangat & Rajan.
    The Sangat or Congregation provides the common man a focal nexus to do good.

    The Rajan or Kshatriya Ruler provides patronage to the Saints & Ascetics.

    https://sialmirzagoraya.substack.com/p/evolution-of-the-sikh-polity
    https://sialmirzagoraya.medium.com/sangat-and-society-the-sikh-remaking-of-the-north-indian-public-sphere-c655ad7c72fa

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

  401. Sher Singh says:

    Guru Nanak’s Baburvani: a Sikh theory of history

    Nanak exclaims – ‘You yourself unite, You yourself separate; I gaze upon Your Glorious Greatness.’

    From this, we can derive an understanding of history. Of why, as in a classic theological question, bad things happen to good people. And what can we do about it.

    The mere fact that Guru Nanak expresses this nature of God, is a Revelation that has two consequences.

    One, we must not expect someone to come and save us. Two, we must do so ourselves. And the way, the passage through this churn, will be shown to us, only if we know whom to ask. (The Guru.)

    From here, the basic elements of Sikh society begin to develop. In the face of historical forces, to protect ourselves against it, we must look within, for faith to understand our predicament, and we must look outside, at our neighbours who are all facing the same consequences. So, through faith and through association with neighbours, the Sangat (community) begins to develop. And the one is no longer alone to face the wrath of history.

    https://sialmirzagoraya.substack.com/p/guru-nanaks-baburvani-a-sikh-theory

    [MORE]

    An ‘invasion’ is almost like a natural force, whom do you blame for it? Leo Tolstoy reached a similar conclusion about Napoleon’s invasions across Europe.

    So, this is a vision for understanding history that comes from our past. Rather than looking at the characters of people, of individuals who were, in the end inconsequential, what does an era of invasions actually mean, in a deeper sense. Why does death and destruction happen – because in the words of the Baburvaani it is a ‘separation’, that makes possible a new ‘unity’.

    Again, do not look at individuals. Look at the forces from below. The greatest symbol of the unity that came from the Mughal era was Guru Nanak himself. In Baba Nanak, the Bhakti and Sufi traditions that were creating a churn in Indian society reached their apogee – the emergence of a new path, recognisable even to the simplest minds, but altogether new, even perhaps radical.

    The two ‘oceans’ of Ancient Indian thought and spiritual Islam, as Dara Shukhoh put it, were uniting in the Mughal Empire. But, in fact, it was not two oceans, but hundreds of seas, hundreds of traditions, that began to merge, create new philosophies, cultures and identities. The philosophy of Guru Nanak emerged as a ‘vessel’ to cut across these churning waters. A new path, a Panth that offered a different way to reach the divine – the ‘land’ across the waters of maya.

    In the previous section, I attempted a discussion of a philosophy of history by referring to Guru Nanak’s Baburvani. I wrote that in my understanding the Baburvani seems almost like an admonition to God, a complaint.

    This until, Nanak exclaims – ‘You yourself unite, You yourself separate; I gaze upon Your Glorious Greatness.’

    From this, we can derive an understanding of history. Of why, as in a classic theological question, bad things happen to good people. And what can we do about it.

    In this section I will explore how this simple statement from Guru Nanak forms a ‘bedrock’ on which later Sikh society – the Sangat – and even the idea of the Sikh polity – the Khalsa – develops.

    Now, in the face of the unfolding of brutal history, what can a ‘normal’ powerless human being do? God, who is ‘nirbhau/nirvair’ – beyond human values and one who does not take sides – in a sense, ‘allows’ history to happen, because He will not intervene in human affairs. At least, that is what the Baburvaani initially implies. But if we look closer, He has intervened, and He has done so through Guru Nanak.

    In Sikh theology, the ten gurus and then the Adi Granth, form a continuing line of revelation (light). This idea of the Sangat that looks after its members, faces up to the forces of history, develops in time, into the Khalsa – which not only protects against the tides of destruction, but has the power to reverse them.

    So, the lament in the initial verses in the Baburvani is also answered by the realisation in the end. History is a force – that breaks society and social order, but it can also be tamed to create a new form of society, and new social orders that are just, founded on and empowered by Dharma.

    In a deeper sense then, God is not completely absent in the face of human suffering. Suffering is a forge, to make the ‘weak’ and the ‘helpless’ who looks for help from the outside, strong enough, to find strength within.

  402. LondonBob says:

    RAND also now advocating a peace deal. I don’t think these moves are just rhetoric, War exhaustion in DC. Interesting how the Ukrainian lines hold up with these probing attacks, what are their reserves?

    [MORE]

  403. Okay, first of all, the Abrams/Leopards, ATACAMS, F-16s, Patriots, etc.: it does not appear that Russia is very concerned and I agree that these systems, if they even arrive, will make only a marginal difference in the fighting. Wonder weapons don’t win wars if they aren’t in sufficient quantities and aren’t backed with logistics and training. The US has a mammoth economic and industrial advantage over the RF, but it so far has been unable to apply it fully to the Ukrainian battlefield and it does not appear that is going to change anytime soon. I do not believe that the new weapons going to Ukraine are meant to turn the tide of the battle. Rather I think the West is responding to the internal pressure of their shitlib base who beleive that Ukraine will defeat Russia if only they are given the right systems.

    While the attack on Bakhmut continues, there is also a large Russian assault on Ugledar. It appears that Russia is launching a comprehensive operation aimed at conquering the entire Donbas. I personally do not think this operation will be successful because I don’t think that Russia has sufficient forces in theatre. I believe that Bakhmut and Ugledar will both fall sometime in 2023, but I don’t expect anything beyond that.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  404. @LondonBob

    I am not privy to Putin’ plans, but I feel (like most people in Russia) that it is too late in the game for anything short of unconditional capitulation of the US puppets. I don’t think the empire is ready for that just yet.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  405. @LondonBob

    War exhaustion in DC

    The United States is, to borrow a phrase from Nasrallah, “weak as a spider’s web”. The US has no stomach for long military engagements.

    Interesting how the Ukrainian lines hold up with these probing attacks, what are their reserves

    They have been used up saving Zelensky’s ego in Bakhmut

    The Rand piece shows how overextended the US empire is, and the recession hasn’t even hit yet. It’s clear that Washington sees China as its primary rival and that a long conflict makes “containing” China more difficult.

    But it also isn’t that simple. There is an emotional component here: Russia is absolutely reviled by the shitlib base of the Democratic party. A Russian victory would be viewed by the CNN/MSNBC viewing portion of the US population as a precursor to the eventual establishment of a dystopian MAGA dictatorship in the US. What’s more, Biden’s own cabinet likely contains many who also share the same delusion.

    And one other thing: the US has already put its prestige on the line. There are no take backs for that. If Russia comes out of this war with major territorial gains and a demilitarized, landlocked, Zelensky free Ukraine that is economically dependent on Russia, that will be a clear and overwhelming defeat for the United States and the “rules based international order”. For the US, there is no easy way out of this

    • Replies: @A123
  406. Coconuts says:
    @Mikel

    The most probable cause of animosity in such circumstances is the lack of security in those beliefs, I think, which leads to feeling threatened by the simple existence of someone disputing them.

    I wonder about moral foundations theory; the liberal atheist or agnostic may often be perceived as a threat to the ‘binding’ foundations of a group or community, i.e. loyalty, authority and sanctity. These foundations tend to be more important to conservatives (apart from libertarians), but their salience has gone into decline, especially in Western societies. Hence the animosity is no longer what it would have been in the past. But they haven’t totally disappeared.

    On the contrary, I am asking for reasons to believe in it for myself and this inevitably leads to the explanation of my own views, that threaten nodody.

    Can’t be 100% certain. There is an interesting book by the evolutionary biologist David Wilson called ‘Darwin’s Cathedral’, about the relationship between religious belief, group selection and reproductive success. This book started drawing attention to the negative correlation between atheism/agnosticism, fertility rate and group fitness.

    Nietzsche seems to have had some intuition about this in relation to the coming of the culture of the ‘Last Man’:

    Zarathustra confronts them with a goal so disgusting that he assumes that it will revolt them – a culture which seeks only passive comfort and routine, avoiding everything that could potentially bring risk, pain, or disappointment…

    Nietzsche warned that the society of the last man could be too barren and decadent to support the growth of healthy human life or great individuals.

    I don’t think that’s exactly what happened.

    I did think HMS was talking about the emergence of philosophical Naturalism, not about Christian teaching based on the content of revelation and the Bible.

    If you take the view that the Natural Sciences rather than rival philosophy or metaphysics was the most important thing in undermining the philosophical teaching of the Church, I think this would be like holding to a strong form of Physicalism or Scientism, plus a strong viewpoint on the history of philosophy. Both of which are going to be in tension with any form of religious belief.

    • Replies: @AP
  407. @Sher Singh

    Many things in this world are supposed to be escaped and transcends, not affirmed or engaged with…

    “Escapism” is a slur modernity invented to drag you back down into the muck…it’s a propaganda term, don’t buy into it…

    To that end, I just finished reading Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass for the third or fourth time, wonderful escapist stuff with deep metaphysical import…

    Have you read them? They shed light on Sikhism, dear Singh..

    • LOL: Sher Singh
  408. Beckow says:
    @AnonfromTN

    …The war is between the US and the RF, Ukraine is a pawn, not a player.

    Anglos find others to fight their wars since they cant have casualties for domestic reasons. The dumb willingness to be used that so many Ukies display is astounding – they don’t even pay them, or more precisely they pay some Ukies, the ones who are not fighting and dying.

    This is a very basic common sense and national IQ test and Ukies are failing. There is probably no other nation today that is willing to sacrifice its men and destroy itself – for what? Nato bases and a ban on teaching in Russian.

    They are also not weakening Russia – winning wars by definition strengthens a country, that will come back to haunt the Western sponsors when Russia wins, as is very likely.

    • Replies: @AP
  409. Yahya says:
    @Dmitry

    But I was waiting for polite time to ask for his food recommendations without stereotype him too much (the stereotype Arabs know more about food than even Italians) or what he thinks about el-Sisi, which e.g. Bashibuzuk will think probably boring.

    Lol, well I never knew Arabs were stereotyped as being knowledgeable about food in Europe. Perhaps that’s because Arab migrants have taken to operating many restaurants there. Even read somewhere that most “Italian” restaurants in Europe are run by Arabs.

    In the Arab world; Syrians are stereotyped as being cooks par excellence. You can find them working in many establishments in Egypt. I can’t say being an Arab gives me special insight into food. I don’t even know how to cook eggs. But I suppose I have some knowledge of Egyptian cuisine. Not sure what you meant by your question though; it’s a bit broad. But if you plan on visiting Egypt; I would recommend the following foods and restaurants.

    [MORE]

    First, in terms of national dishes, the best Egypt has to offer is seafood and grilled meat.

    A) Grilled Meat (Mashweyat)

    The grilled meat (called “mashweyat” in Egyptian Arabic) you can find in every formerly Ottoman territory. The Turks have their variety that’s heavier and more saucy. Arab countries by contrast tend to lighten on the sauces and let the meat do the work. The “mixed grill” dish consists of 4-5 items: kofta, shish tawook, lamb chops, grilled kebab.

    Each you can order on its own. I personally like lamb chops and shish tawook the most. The former you can probably guess its taste. The latter is a marinated chicken dish that tastes a bit like the Indian Chicken Tikka.

    There’s also Shawarma which I probably don’t need to elaborate much on. The best shawarmas you will find in the “Third Worldy” type restaurants in Egypt like “Abu Amar El Soory” and “Semsema”. These types of restaurants are unsanitary, loud and chaotic so I’m not sure if people here can stomach it. Egyptians have sort of developed an immunity that allows them to eat that stuff, but probably its not advised if you are a foreigner on vacation. On the other hand, there are some clean restaurants like “Shaweremer” which you can find decent shawarma. For mixed grill “Manoufi” is the best, though it is a third world restaurant.

    B) Grilled Fish (Samak Mashwi)

    Egyptian seafood is totally unique, delicious and extremely underrated. After 5,000 years of living next to the Mediterranean and Red Sea, I believe Egyptians have perfected the art of seafood cooking. You’ll only find this style of spice in Lebanon, which copied the recipe from Egypt. This is why if you are in Egypt you definitely need to try Egyptian-style seafood. Unlike grilled meat, you won’t find this dish in any Western restaurant.

    I recommend the “Grilled Whole Fish” or “Samak Mashwi” in Arabic. You can choose any fish from Sea Bass to Grey Mullet and Sea Bream. Just tell the waiter “Mashwi” and he will grill it in the Egyptian style. You can also try fried fish, though I personally prefer grilled fish. Also the “butterfly shrimp” is quite exquisite.

    The best seafood restaurant I’ve tried is out in the Sinai, in a town called Ismailia. It’s about 2 hours from Cairo though. The most convenient restaurant in Cairo for fish is called “Asmak”. This website instructs you how to cook fish the Egyptian style if you’d like to cook at home: https://www.cookingchanneltv.com/recipes/samak-mashwi-grilled-fish-with-an-egyptian-twist-2273461

    If there’s any dish I’d recommend, it’s the grilled sea bream. Just a must really, if you go to Egypt without having tried it, your visit will have been for nought.

    C) Koshary

    There are other national dishes that are less luxurious and more “Staple Food” go poor Egyptians. They can be tasty in their own way, but there nothing special. The most common staple food is called koshary, it consist of basic carbohydrate items like lentils, rice, and pasta with tomato sauce and garlic.

    D) Molokheya

    The other item is called “Molokheya”. My guess is that many foreigners will find it too weird and exotic. You can already see by its appearance that it’s odd and weird – which it is. I personally like it, though I’m not sure people unaccustomed to it would. But it’s very popular in Egypt. It’s typically eaten with chicken and rice.

    E) Fava Beans (“Fool”)

    Another is called “fool” or “fava beans”, usually accompanied by “Tameya” or “Falafel”. It’s a staple breakfast for Egyptians. I love this dish, it’s simple but tasty. It tastes somewhat similar to beans found elsewhere, but with an Egyptian flavor. Would recommend it.

    My friend told me about this company that does tour guides of local Egyptian cuisine for tourists. I personally haven’t tried it but it looks professional, I’ll leave the link here: https://belliesenroute.com

    ————

    In terms of restaurants, there are many nice high-end restaurants in Egypt that are tasty and affordable. They aren’t particularly Egyptian though. Mostly serving international cushioned to upper class Egyptians. These restaurants are up to first world standards in cleanliness and décor, so you needn’t worry about food safety issues like in Egyptian restaurants.

    My favorite high-end restaurants in Cairo:

    1) Estro (Italian)
    2) Saachi (Japanese + International)
    3) Hana Barbecque (Korean)
    4) The Moghul Room (Indian)
    5) Al Beiruti (Lebanese)
    6) Mayrig (Armenian)

    The first one, “Estro” is my favorite. It’s owned and operated by a Sicilian lady who is always there and knows the customers by name. It’s located in a rooftop in an affluent Cairo suburb called Maadi. You can see large chunks of the city from the roof. Very peaceful and nice. The garlic shrimp is my favorite dish there.

    Hana Barbecque is owned and operated by a Korean lady who is married to an Egyptian. Food there is also fantastic, best Korean I’ve tasted thus far.

    Moghul room has some cool Indian-Islamic style architecture. The cutlery, plates and cups are also designed in a cool fashion. Would recommend as well.

    Saachi is very elite, serves Sushi and Wagyu beef and the like.

    I’ll get to Egypt’s government in another post.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  410. Mikhail says: • Website

    Victoria Nuland’s Role

    Informative overview, which includes follow-up on an excellent take down of the German foreign minister and Zelensky:

  411. Mikhail says: • Website

    Kit Klarenberg
    @KitKlarenberg
    Fascinating new RAND report urges Washington to get the hell out of dodge in Ukraine, as “US interests would be best served by avoiding a protracted conflict,” and “costs and risks of a long war…outweigh the possible benefits”!

    [MORE]

  412. AP says:
    @Beckow

    There is probably no other nation today that is willing to sacrifice its men and destroy itself

    The natural collaborator and lackey can’t understand why anyone would fight to keep invaders out of their country.

    They are also not weakening Russia – winning wars by definition strengthens a country

    Kind of like how Britain was strengthened by winning World War II, right?

    And Britain and France were strengthened after their World War I victory.

    Have you heard of the concept of Pyrrhic victory?

    I completely agree with this comment by the military expert “Twinkie” who occasionally commented here:

    Prior to this war, I rated Putin’s governance and statesmanship highly – after all, he strengthened the Russian economy and defense after the collapse of the Soviet Union and tangibly increased the Russian standard of living. My evaluation of national leaders is based on a rather simple criteria – has he left the country in a better shape than he found it? And he had… until this war.

    This war has been a severe miscalculation on his part and something of a disaster for the Russian state. Remember the great debacle of our Iraq War (which I frequently refer to as our “Sicilian Expedition”)? Well, the US Army lost 150 armored fighting vehicles (tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, and armored personnel carriers) in eight years of fighting in Iraq. In contrast, the Russian army has lost over 3,000 AFVs in eight months of fighting in Ukraine. And let’s not forget the really vital asset in force generation and projection – the tens of thousands of trained personnel that once manned those vehicles (as John Boyd once said, “people first, ideas second, hardware third”).

    I often quote Edward Luttwak about the logic of power versus force, which is that the use of power often begets more power, but the use of force consumes it. Well, Putin decided to employ direct, coercive force rather than power and influence to bend Ukraine to his will, and it has backfired spectacularly and has consumed a huge amount of force.

    I am not one of these fools, idiots, or the insane who claim to be able to predict the future. I don’t know what the future holds, but I think sober observers can tell that the war has dealt a severe blow to the Russian state, and it is considerably weaker now than when it started the war (this, of course, doesn’t mean someone else – e.g. Ukraine or the United States – is winning, as war is one of those phenomena that are often negative-sum).

    • Replies: @Beckow
  413. AP says:
    @Coconuts

    As usual my thoughts align with your but you express it better then I could have:

    If you take the view that the Natural Sciences rather than rival philosophy or metaphysics was the most important thing in undermining the philosophical teaching of the Church, I think this would be like holding to a strong form of Physicalism or Scientism

    There is no conflict between Natural Sciences and the Church (many devout Churchmen have also been scientists, and the history of modern science begins with churchmen), but rather between Scientism and the Church. The idea that there is nothing in the universe other than that which can be systematically observed or measured by evolved apes and the instruments they have created is itself a belief, one that seems to be more fantastic and irrational than belief in God.

    • Thanks: Coconuts
    • Replies: @Mikel
  414. Prior to this war, I rated Putin’s governance and statesmanship highly – after all, he strengthened the Russian economy and defense after the collapse of the Soviet Union and tangibly increased the Russian standard of living. My evaluation of national leaders is based on a rather simple criteria – has he left the country in a better shape than he found it? And he had… until this war.

    Strong disagree. Putin has always been a terrible leader. Yeltsin shepherded the country through the chaos and misery of the 90s and left Putin with a rapidly recovering country and a clear path towards greater reform. But not only did Putin not continue the reformist path, he reversed it due to his obsession with centralizing control. Had Putin continued on Yeltsin’s path, I would expect Russia’s current GDP to be at least 50% greater than it currently is.

    As for the war, the losses Russia has suffered don’t matter because Russians don’t care about losses. The war also has not internationally isolated Russia, it has cut it off from the West for the time being but the West is not the entire world and the non Anglo Western countries seem eager to restore relations with Russsia ASAP. Meanwhile, if Russia wins not only does it gain population, energy and industry but it dramatically weakens the international influence of the US, Russia’s main rival.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AnonfromTN
  415. @A123

    Getting together with another guy to watch a football game is not gay?

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @A123
  416. @LondonBob

    Did you read Scott Alexander’s thing on DSM classifications and the pedophile tendency of homosexuals? It was one of the most unintentionally funny things in a year.

    Even a homophilic professional psychiatrist cannot explain why homosexuals are not mentally ill and pedophiles are mentally ill. He would like to do this as much as Einstein wanted a unified field theory for galaxies and particles.

    • Replies: @Yahya
  417. AP says:
    @Greasy William

    Strong disagree. Putin has always been a terrible leader. Yeltsin shepherded the country through the chaos and misery of the 90s

    The Russian economy didn’t do well under Yeltsin in the 90s and crashed further in ‘98 (making 1999 a great year for buying a flat in Moscow).

    left Putin with a rapidly recovering country and a clear path towards greater reform. But not only did Putin not continue the reformist path

    The idea that Putin opposed the oligarchs that flourished under Yeltsin is of course a myth; what he did was stabilize the system, kicked out particularly oligarchs who weren’t team players and were bad for stability, and enabled a lot of the wealth to trickle down to regular people, such that Russians were probably the wealthiest they had been in their history. But the system remained in place: if for example an upstart became wealthy and successful he would be forced to sell to one of the established oligarch interests. But this wouldn’t matter much for regular people.

    Oil helped a lot of course but there are other places with oil where most people do poorly.

    As for the war, the losses Russia has suffered don’t matter because Russians don’t care about losses

    Whether or not they care isn’t as important as the fact that Russia has lost a huge number of equipment (thousands of fighting vehicles, artillery pieces, dozens of aircraft, their Black Sea Fleet flagship) and many well trained men. The mass deaths of prisoners might be a positive thing from an amoral perspective (don’t have to pay for their housing anymore if they are dead in a field outside Bakhmut) but also thousands of elite paratroopers and other normal forces have been killed or permanently maimed.

    Meanwhile what has this cost the USA? 6% of the defense budget, much of which is not cash but the value of equipment that had been gathering dust in storage but which is now used to decimate the Russian military. Without the loss of any American lives.

    Meanwhile, if Russia wins not only does it gain population, energy and industry

    The population gain is minimal, most people flee the Russians, you’ll have a lot of pensioners who couldn’t flee left behind. I guess the money saved by not having to house inmates will be used to feed the new population.

    If it’s small enough*, Western Ukraine free of Russia will have more people than before, and places like Poland will add millions of young educated hardworking assimilable Slavs to their population.

    The industry will be wrecked during the process of the war. Russia’s only real gain would be some more rich agricultural lands. Not worth all the losses in men, equipment, economy. At best it will be like French and British victory in World War I. “Liberation” of Alsace and getting some of Germany’s African colonies wasn’t worth it.

    *In the extremely unlikely event that Russia takes all the East and South or even Kiev. Most likely is a stalemate, with Russia maybe taking Bakhmut or even Kramatorsk, Ukraine taking another village or three elsewhere. Wouldn’t rule out Ukrainian breakthrough into the Crimean corridor.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    , @Dmitry
  418. Yahya says:
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Even a homophilic professional psychiatrist cannot explain why homosexuals are not mentally ill and pedophiles are mentally ill.

    The homo is lusting over grown men. The pedo is lusting over children. That’s the key difference.

    To some extent the moral opposition to homos and pedos is socially constructed. There is no reason other than a visceral instinct of wrongness. But for kids, they are more vulnerable to abuse than adults, that’s why a pedo is scum while a homo is just weird.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  419. Yahya says:
    @AP

    The idea that Putin opposed the oligarchs that flourished under Yeltsin is of course a myth; what he did was stabilize the system,

    Putler’s main defect is that he doesn’t care about anyone but himself. He is relatively smart and well-read. He wants to go down in the history books as Putin The Great. He doesn’t care if thousands of Russians and Ukrainians have to die to achieve his ambitions.

    I lost all respect for him when he wore that $14,000 jacket to the Moscow rally shortly after launching the “Special Militray Opertaion”. Subjecting his people to poverty and Ukrainians to bombs; but wearing some designer jacket that costs the average Russian 12 months worth of salary. Lol.

    • Agree: AP
  420. songbird says:
    @S

    Thanks. The sequel 2010 also had Soviets in it (or I’m pretty sure they were Soviets.) The Americans traveled aboard the Soviet space ship to the abandoned ship from the first movie.

    [MORE]

    In that movie, there were clearly tensions between the two groups, but in a way that is keeping with the CoDominium idea. (BTW, I wonder if A123 ever noticed the similarities between the Soviet ship and the Earth battle ships from B5)

    IIRC, the book was serialized in some Soviet scifi mag, and it was a big hit. But then they figured out that Clarke had given the Russian characters the names of dissidents, and they immediately stopped the series. People kept writing to the magazine to find out what happened, so eventually they published a reduced plot of what happened.

    It is interesting that Clarke was anti-Soviet (a lot of writers were pro), I wonder if that was because he was gay. Or maybe because of Afghanistan. I recall that in the original publication of Childhood’s End (early ’50s), there was some note at the beginning denouncing communism or atheism or something, but I would guess that was boilerplate, due to the irreligious plot, one of Clarke’s favorite themes – where man becomes God.

    I remember the television series Stargate SG1 was still pretty big on Russians – I’m not sure the creators were really considering that China was rising and would eclipse Russia.

    In A123’s favorite show, Babylon 5, I think there was some sort of Russian alliance, which was different from the rest of Earth, even though civilization spanned some stars.

    • Replies: @S
  421. @Yahya

    In Scott Alexander’s DSM lusting after barely pubescent 14 year old boys is pedophilia. Also he dates trannies.

    It can be confusing to keep the rows and columns straight on these internet discussion topics.

  422. A123 says: • Website
    @Greasy William

    The US has no stomach for long military engagements.

    The U.S. has not engaged. I find your statement puzzling.

    Name a *regular* U.S. military regiment that has been fully deployed in Ukraine.

    the US has already put its prestige on the line

    Whhaaaaaaat?

    As an American, I can tell you this is *not* the case. This is a relatively painless walk away. The U.S. has little to no prestige on the line.

    Yes. The U.S. dumped in vast amounts of cash, as directed by the European WEF. However, there has not been the slightest hint of larger commitment.

    Thirty Abrams tanks next year is PR shill speak. Not-The-President Biden will almost certainly be forced out before his son’s friends receive the tanks.

    PEACE 😇

  423. songbird says:

    My heart really goes out to the Ukrainians who were sent to Birmingham.

    • Replies: @A123
  424. @AnonfromTN

    Hermes Trismegistos was said to be a god with thousand faces. The science of gods’ names, present in almost any religion, is a clue that there are fewer gods than their names; Hermes Trismegistos is the spirit and the essence of the phenomenon known as religious syncretism. Some gods are as accommodating as Jesuits were during their mission to China, or even more.

    https://www.asianstudies.org/publications/eaa/archives/the-early-modern-jesuit-mission-to-china-a-marriage-of-faith-and-culture/

    For a similar reason, Kabbalists distinguish between names and true names of God, so in the end only they know who is truly who, or so they claim 😉 In the West, Ursula LeGuin “Earthsea” novels are the less religious and more cultural expression of this obsession with names and their alleged “power” (knowledge of a true name of someone gives you knowledge of and power over him etc).

  425. A123 says: • Website
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Getting together with another guy to watch a football game is not gay?

    Meeting at a sports bar to watch a game with someone is not inherently gay.

    How many gay men go to Hooters [MORE]?

    I suppose it happens, but that would by atypical.

    PEACE 😇

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  426. songbird says:
    @Another Polish Perspective

    In the West, Ursula LeGuin “Earthsea” novels are the less religious and more cultural expression of this obsession with names and their alleged “power”

    Hawaiians had similar taboos.

    Old Hawaiians saw a name as the property of the name-holder, with a power to help or hurt its owner. A meaning that was too apparent might have attracted evil forces. And, just like in Hawaiian poetry, an allusion was considered more beautiful than a plain statement.

    I’ve always been fascinated by how some Hawaiian names are really, really long – like:
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mbvd/listen-to-the-hawaiian-name-that-is-too-long-for-a-drivers-l

    And that is true of some placenames as well. I wonder if it says anything about HBD – not sure to what extent it is reflected more broadly among Polynesians.

    Anyway, I really recommend reading the whole wiki article about Hawaiian names:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_name

  427. @Another Polish Perspective

    On its surface, the problem of multiple names for a single (godlike) being is so absurd that it can reasonably function only in a fantastic reality as that of LeGuin or of Tolkien (where, at least in his books, “The Enemy” is preferred to “Sauron” when talking, and Valars are rarely named by their own names but are often talked about in plurals, similarly to Biblical “elohim” standing often for God). In religious criticism of the Bible the problem has even led some to believe that the Serpent of Eden, Leviathan and Satan are actually three different beings, which in itself is a good example of a TOO close reading of the Bible.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
  428. A123 says: • Website
    @songbird

    My heart really goes out to the Ukrainians who were sent to Birmingham.

    How did they get to Alabama?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham,_Alabama

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
  429. songbird says:
    @Sher Singh

    Wonder if there would be any advantage in creating a based programming language called “NIG” or “NIG++”.

    [MORE]

    Right now, the closest thing seems some of Yandex’s python scripts:

  430. songbird says:
    @A123

    I was speaking of the one with more blacks. Namely, Birmingham, England.

    • Replies: @A123
  431. S says:
    @songbird

    I recall that in the original publication of Childhood’s End (early ’50s), there was some note at the beginning denouncing communism or atheism or something, but I would guess that was boilerplate, due to the irreligious plot, one of Clarke’s favorite themes – where man becomes God.

    If I remember right it was Childhood’s End which featured ‘back to nature’ environmentalists who eschewed modern technology. And the invading ‘aliens’, who hid their physical appearance, in reality had the classical image of a dragon winged Satan. An odd book for the time I suppose.

    • Replies: @songbird
  432. Mikel says:
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I am a huge fan of such syncretism and blurry boundaries 🙂 Perhaps we can add Atheism to the syncretist vision as well – it’s a big tent

    Well, do as you wish but I would recommend to put some boundaries on your syncretism, lest it becomes too confusing 🙂 Perhaps there’s some spiritual thing to learn even from religions that practice/d human sacrifices, who knows, but I’d personally leave them out of my own tent.

    And we should talk more about our wilderness forays really….

    A much more relaxing subject than the meaning of human existence, certainly. During the last months I’ve been very busy so I’ve settled in a routine of just visiting a few nearby mountain favorite places of mine. That’s why I chose to live here after all, to have that luxury at hand when I can’t go and explore new places. But that also means that I don’t have a lot to tell, unless I enter in a description of the amazing transition from a high desert environment to an alpine one as you climb the slopes of the Wasatch range. That would bore everyone to death, I’m afraid.

    Utah winters are always long and often extend well into the spring months so another thing we’ve settled into is visiting some tropical place every winter for a change. I can’t wait to fly to the tropics early in February. I would be happy enough to just travel a few hours down to the sunny Southwest desert a few times every winter and that’s probably what I’ll do when I retire but right now I need to consider my wife and son’s wishes and who can complain about a week by a tropical beach during this extremely snowy winter? Besides, this coming April I’m planning to visit the Coachella Festival. I’ve never been there and am very curious to see what that gathering of hippies and freaks in the California desert feels like.

    When you have the time I’d find it interesting to know how the Sawtooth mountains in Idaho compare to the Wind River Range. My guess is that the Sawtooths must have a pure Rocky Mountain scenery with a Canadian flavor whereas the Wind Rivers, being at the end of the Rockies, where the mountains give way to the Wyoming plains, must be drier and a bit less forested, at least at lower elevations.

  433. @A123

    What was the point of that video? I just watched 9+ minutes of a pathetic dude freaking out with 0.2 seconds of him saying…something about Covid virus mutating. If there was a there there, I sure didn’t see it! Did I blink at the wrong point?

    I haven’t paid that much attention to Project Veritas previously but if this representative of their oeuvre than they probably are just click bait.

    Supporting context, please?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  434. Mikel says:
    @AP

    The idea that there is nothing in the universe other than that which can be systematically observed or measured by evolved apes and the instruments they have created is itself a belief, one that seems to be more fantastic and irrational than belief in God.

    I agree with the first part of this sentence and I have myself said on this blog in the past that that is an irrational belief. But the last part of the sentence is more problematic. That our brains are unable to fully understand the universe and anything that may lie beyond does not logically lead to embracing the myths that our ancestors used as an explanation when they were even more ignorant than us. Besides, how rational is it to embrace precisely the myths of your cultural tradition when, as AnonfromTN says, there are so many other contradictory myths to choose from?

    I’ve done quite a lot of science reading and my impression is that top scientists, especially theoretical physicists, are more aware than anyone of the limits of our understanding because that is what they deal with daily in their jobs. But it’s true that some scientists seem to operate under the assumption that everything will eventually be understood by the human species if we just keep investigating. Absent strong IQ augmentation, I don’t have such a hope. And even then I’m not sure how much a mammal brain will ever be able to grasp the deepest realities.

    • Replies: @AP
  435. A123 says: • Website
    @songbird

    I was speaking of the one with more blacks. Namely, Birmingham, England.

    Birmingham, AL, USA is ~70% African American. I suspect Birmingham, UK is much more pale.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Wokechoke
  436. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    people at the bottom tend to engage in worse behaviors than those who are better off. Unlike in the case of Jesus’ time, prosperous people in the Christendom did not come by their wealth through conquest and enslavement, or through taxing widows and poor people. They are not likely to be wicked

    This is your point of view and you don’t have to justify it by giving the complicated historical maneuver to give it wrong label. It’s possibly true, possibly false, like any view, depending on evidence.

    But it is the opposite of the Catholic church and also opposite of what Church fathers are writing. In their view, we don’t live in the time after the Second Coming. And in their teaching, pride is the first of capital sins.

    And in their view, “failing to meet the needs” of the poor and weak is second reason for going to hell, after hate and murder.

    many healthy normal children too; he is not AFAIK a Christian, so it would make no sense to appeal to the Christian idea that all people have inherent value regardless of disability. But both are true

    I don’t understand this. Really, any normal people don’t think like this, as they have morality and concepts like compassion, as the mainstream in our culture. Trying to justify in this way, looks like a discussion of psychopaths without internal morality – “Don’t kill the children, because I found some justifications that they will be helpful for our political side”.

    In your posts, you writer morality from a view as reducible to social utility. To be honest, this is one of the distinguishable features where you know “this is a post by AP”, when you see writing about morality as something “useful”.

    However, this is not real morality, that has to be based from internal compassion or duty.

    For example, you write “fear an inevitability or high likelihood of eternal Hell, atheism would conveniently calm such a fear”. (Actually, atheism correlates with lower crimes, but this is not for this discussion).

    So, you believe it is good to promote the hypothetical punishment and reward of religion, so this will be able to reduce crime and socially useful behavior.

    If you control an intelligent rat in the Skinner box that understands language. Instead of using electric shock to control its behavior, you talk to the rat about the hypothetical electric shock it will have when it exits the box. So, you believe the rat will behave in the way which you desire, because it now believes there will be an electric shock when it exits the box (i.e. after life).

    This is not morality, it is the rat’s selfish behavior based on hypothetical view of punishment and reward in the after life, as a rat in any box.

    But morality is the idea that you do the right things, because it is the right things, not because of consequences (electric shocks, whether in this life, or after life). If it was based in consequences (i.e. to go to heaven), then it would just be another kind of selfish behavior. This view was true also in Ancient Greece and earlier times.

    Morality is unselfish behavior. A true moral behavior, is when they do the moral behavior, even though it has negative consequences for the person (whether in this life or even in hypothetical after life).

    Although there is a problem in all religions where they sometimes promote their morality, by giving the theory of the electric shock in this life or after life. This is kind of selfish behavior, even if the positive consequence will be in after life.

    Morality is based from not selfish beliefs (“what will happen to me in this life or after life”), but from the internal compassion, duty, etc.

    In the Christian writing there is some understanding of this problem, in the discussion of spirit of the law vs following the law. Jesus says the right hand can’t know what the left hand is doing, when you give to the poor. Jesus says that looking at a woman with lust, is adultery (unlike, in the less strict Judaism, adultery is only an act, not the thought).

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    , @AP
  437. @A123

    Meeting at a sports bar to watch a game with someone is not inherently gay.

    Correct. If it’s just you and your best buddy in his den though watch out. The stupid touchdown dances are included in the NFL highlight videos. That is how gay football is.

  438. @Barbarossa

    They did a homo honeypot where some guy the pharm boss had the hots for went to a bar and plied him with drinks. Evidence of nothing.

    Since you would need a ten year old girl to honeypot Gates and Fauci those guys are out of reach for project veritas.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
  439. Beckow says:
    @AP

    Britain and France were strengthened after their World War I victory.

    Absolutely, they were strengthened – they dominated Europe as almost never before. France in particular was a big winner of WW1. Why would winning a war make you weaker? That is just stupid wishful throw-away nonsense.

    Pyrrhic victory

    You are stuck on this rather infantile concept that has no similarity to today’s situation. Pyrrha invaded Italy and won 1-2 battles but lost so many men and equipment that he had to withdraw. If you think that Russia will run out of men and weapons right on its own borders you are living in a lala land. Pyrrha had serious logistics issues to resupply his troops, do you see Russia as experiencing something similar? Why would they. Your analogy is literally retarded – a shallow, uneducated quip to make yourself feel better. Instead you sound like a moron. Putin=Pyrrha, right, how incredibly stupid can you be.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Emil Nikola Richard
  440. @Emil Nikola Richard

    I kind of felt bad for the pathetic homo, to be honest.

  441. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Ukraine would most likely follow the Polish

    Poland is Central Europe and next to Germany. They have been merging to the German economy, which is the most powerful economy in Europe. For example, Volkswagen factories in Poland have more than $6 billion annual revenue.

    Ukraine is Eastern Europe and will be more generally periphery country of EU for those logistics reasons, which would be less centrally integrated to Germany’s economy.

    EU also perhaps will have relatively less money for convergence in the next decades compared to 2000-2020 as the UK has exited, which was the second largest economy of the bloc.

    closest culturally, historically, educationally, geographically and genetically (the last is least important) to their Polish neighbors

    I agree the last (genetics) is not likely predictive.

    I’m not sure culture personality type is so predictive. But in terms of culture, Poles are different. Ukrainians are similar to Russians. But Poles have a very distinctive national personality, not similar to Russian. Some of their personality is more like stereotypical Germans – they have quite pedantic culture. I wonder if there is a general Central European trend for this?

    In terms of historically, Poland was not part of the Soviet Union or Russian Empire. Although again, I’m not sure this is predictive for the economic future. Estonia is former territory of the Russian Empire and USSR. But Estonia has been one of the more fast converging countries in the EU.

    closest culturally, historically, educationally, geographically and genetically (the last is least important) to their Polish

    Bulgaria is an ethnically Southern/Mediterranean country (Balkans). But you know what they say about Bulgaria in Soviet times (“Курица – не птица, Болгария – не заграница”). I’m not sure how true this is, but there is often similarity which is wider than the peoples’ hair coloration.

    Although if Ukraine follows Romania attainments in the EU, this would be a very optimistic situation.

    Romania’s attainments are the same as countries having the world’s largest oil and gas exports and largest industries for diamonds, metals (Russia). Also the same as countries with the world’s largest manufacturing (China).

    If Ukraine would go anywhere between Bulgaria and Romania, they will be a very significant optimistic reality.

    • Disagree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Mikhail
  442. @AP

    Ukrainians are closest culturally, historically, educationally, geographically and genetically (the last is least important) to their Polish neighbors

    I wouldn’t underestimate the genetic factor. With such a huge influx of Ukrainians (not just after 02.2022, but earlier) Polish folk wisdom has already generated new stereotypes of Ukrainians, obviously by juxtaposition to its own generalizations about Poles, like “Ukrainians are musical and emotional [temperamental]” – obviously these factors have some genetic foundations.

    so Ukraine would most likely follow the Polish path, although it will be 20 or so years behind Poland.

    Maybe, maybe not. There is now no natural path of development or natural path of convergence. The larger the Ukraine, the harder will be its way to the West. Out of Soviet Union, only the small Baltic countries managed to open the door to the West, not even Moldavia, maybe because the former were so small…

  443. songbird says:
    @A123

    I suspect Birmingham, UK is much more pale.

    In relative terms, certainly, though I am not sure I would employ that specific adjective, to cast the overall environment.

    But there is certainly something to be said for concentration. One of the main tenants of chemistry (ex: toothpaste vs. rat poison), but undervalued in most other fields.

    BTW, returning to the Veritas story. I suspect another reason gays may be more susceptible is that they have a smaller field to play, so they might be more desperate. (or, maybe, it has grown?)

    • Replies: @A123