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***

* Press F for John McAfee. Even NBC acknowledged he was suicided (if briefly). Certainly a very colorful character.

* @BirthGauge with new table of preliminary TFR estimates for first few months of this year. Germany will have a higher TFR than the US for the first time in more than a century this year. Lyman Stone on what explains Czechia becoming what will probably be the highest TFR developed country (apart from Israel) in 2021. Mark Steyn on suicide watch.

* Von Stumm, S., & Plomin, R. (2021). Using DNA to predict intelligence. Intelligence, 86, 101530.

* MAGIC SOIL. Bukowski, P., Clark, G., Gáspár, A., & Peto, R. (2021). Social mobility and political regimes: intergenerational mobility in Hungary, 1949-2017. 67, 81 (h/t @devarbol). The elites of 18C Hungary largely preserved their positions under 20C Communist Hungary.

Guirkinger, C., Aldashev, G., Aldashev, A., & Fodor, M. (2020). Economic Persistence despite Adverse Policies: Evidence from Kyrgyzstan (No. 2020-39). ULB — Universite Libre de Bruxelles. https://ideas.repec.org/p/eca/wpaper/2013-312572.html (h/t @whyvert). Finds the same thing even for Kyrgyzstan: Richer and more powerful tribes had greater representation in 1970s Soviet elite.

* XENOS. Avi Loev – A Possible Link between ‘Oumuamua and Unidentified Aerial Phenomena

* 2,034 nearby star-systems that could find Earth by observing it crossing the Sun.

* I did say Wokeism is literally White Supremacy… here is a another anecdote to that effect.

* Dark Fish. They apparently account for at least 50% of fish biomass.

* CRYPTO. My thoughts on the bear market this week. I appeared at Zadumov’s podcast, where I’m somewhat of a regular now, and had a little debate with a Bitcoin maxi (Russian language).

With gas prices low, I recommend content creators/brand owners to snap up an .eth domain. They are cheap but could become quite important come Web 3.0. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

* UKRAINE. Ukraine using $2B of its meager resources to buy British warships and kneeling for the honor… well, I suppose the UK’s provocation of Russia by sailing its destroyer through Crimean waters was not so surprising. The “lost” documents about that were obviously a leak. Meanwhile, China also forces Ukraine to kneel by (allegedly) threatening vaccine supplies if Kiev had insisted on keeping its name on the list of states condemning its actions in Xinjiang.

Israel proved more faithful to the US, though. Hanania: “US loves Muslim rights so much, it pressures Israel to criticize China. Because that’s where Israel can make a difference in giving Muslims rights, in Xinjiang.”

 

 
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  1. This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

    • Disagree: Gaspar DeLaFunk
    • LOL: Jim Christian
    • Troll: Grahamsno(G64)
    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Gaspar disagrees, Anatoly! That's like saying Nyet to Don Corleone's offer. You know, the one you canta refuse!

    , @Mikhail
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Might end up being the best whataboutism of 2021:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9728423/PETER-HITCHENS-wont-popular-Navys-Black-Sea-antics-stupid.html


    So, say the Russian navy (even more clapped-out and shrunken than ours) managed to find a ship in good enough condition to get to the South Atlantic. Say it then loaded aboard some Moscow journalists. And say the Russians decided they were actively backing Argentinian claims to the 'Malvinas'.
     
    Some issue with Peter Hitchens' comparative reference regarding the Russian and Brit navies:

    https://thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com/2021/06/05/look-out-the-left-the-captain-said-the-capture-of-roman-protasevich/comment-page-2/#comment-61146

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @reiner Tor

    , @Blinky Bill
    @Anatoly Karlin

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5IJWMwXoAApU6_.jpg


    30/06/21

    Someone posted this more than a decade ago.


    After suppressing military spending from the late 1970’s to the early 2000’s in order to free up its energies for rapid economic growth, the People’s Liberation Army is now being paid back handsomely for its patience. A prescient quotation from the Economist in 1986, from the days when the magazine was still worth reading:

    For China’s military men with the patience to see the economic reforms through, there is a payoff. If Mr. Deng’s plans for the economy as a whole are allowed to run their course, and the value of China’s output quadruples, as planned, between 1980 and 2000 (admittedly big ifs), then 10 to 15 years down the line the civilian economy should have picked up enough steam to haul the military sector along more rapidly. That is when China’s army, its neighbors and the big powers will really have something to think about.
     
    That time is now. Defense spending is now rising faster than GDP, as China intensifies military modernization and acquires new capabilities in electronic, information, and anti-satellite warfare. The overall strategic balance has also changed. The dissolution of the Soviet Union meant that the old Chinese fear of a tank invasion from the north has dissipated; coupled with the growing importance of maritime trade and foreign energy supplies, this has produced a reorientation to coastal defense and broader power projection to the south and east. China’s most ambitious military project is its decision to embark on the construction of a real blue-water navy, a vital tool in the renewed “gunboat diplomacy” we are likely to see in the years ahead.

    ▲▼In the short term, this has extended to China acquiring Russian weapons such as four Sovremenny-class guided missile destroyers, twelve Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines, and advanced anti-ship missiles and supercavitating torpedoes such as the Sunburn, Sizzler, and Shkval. Domestic production of naval vessels is expanding rapidly: whereas US shipbuilding is withering away, China now accounts for a third of global shipbuilding and “is in the midst of a shipbuilding and acquisition craze that will result in the People’s Liberation Army Navy having more ships than the U.S. Navy sometime in the next decade”, including four aircraft carriers by 2020.
     

    6 launched if not commissioned by the years end.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    , @Dissident
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Hyperlink to "current Open Thread" in your stock starter post at top of latest thread
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-156/
    results in:


    We're sorry. That page could not be found.
     
    ???
    ~ ~ ~
    Note to commenter AaronB:
    FYI, should you wish to post to the newly created AE Community Open Thread (that according to Ron Unz "will be restricted to the AE Community of approved commenters"), you should now be able to. Ron Unz replied to this request of mine by email with, "Okay, I think I fixed the problem."

    Replies: @AaronB

    , @Grahamsno(G64)
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I enjoy your open threads and called you a troll just for the fuck of it.

  2. Karlin: Czechia is socially liberal

    Karlin: See Lyman Stone

    Lyman Stone on what explains Czechia becoming what will probably be the highest TFR developed country (apart from Israel) in 2021.

    What’s super funny about this is Czechia has a fairly “progressive” reputation and has not had the kind of loudmouthed God And Country-ism of, say, Hungary, yet their policies are in some sense even more “traditionalist.”

    LMAO : )

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Passer by

    Middling in the Gender equality index:

    24 14 New Zealand 0.094
    25 8 Australia 0.097
    26 19 United Kingdom 0.109
    26 48 Montenegro 0.109
    28 35 Poland 0.115
    29 32 Greece 0.116
    29 43 Croatia 0.116
    31 31 UAE 0.118
    31 53 Belarus 0.118
    33 14 Israel 0.123
    34 34 Lithuania 0.124
    35 64 Serbia 0.132
    36 27 Czechia 0.136

    But pretty high in other progressive measures:

    Abortion in the Czech Republic is legally allowed up to 12 weeks of pregnancy, with medical indications up to 24 weeks of pregnancy, in case of grave problems with the fetus at any time.

    The Czech Republic is often considered the most progressive former Eastern Bloc country in regards to lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) rights.[1]

    Replies: @Passer by

    , @216
    @Passer by


    Lyman Stone
     
    A "One billion Americans" type neoconservative.

    Not to be trusted farther than he can be thrown.
    , @216
    @Passer by

    In another edition of "The liberal that Karlin really is", remember when Swedish policies were praised here for having higher fertility?

    Oh wait, it wasn't ethnic Swedes that boosted the birth rate.

    Rural Redstani have the highest TFR outside of Israel.

    American exceptionalism is real my friends.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Anatoly Karlin

  3. Random question: are there any examples of Russian and Chinese elites intermarrying?

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Not thay I know of (and why would you ask that?)

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Blinky Bill

    , @Blinky Bill
    @Triteleia Laxa

    The leader of the Chinese Communist Party and the daughter of Russian nobleman who was stripped of his lands in the Russian revolution.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    , @melanf
    @Triteleia Laxa

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Ching-kuo#Moscow

    , @melanf
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Chiang Kai-shek's son Chiang Ching-kuo

    " Chiang Kai-shek purged KMT leftists, had Communists arrested or killed, and expelled his Soviet advisers. Chiang Ching-kuo responded from Moscow with an editorial that harshly criticized his father's actions but was nonetheless detained as a "guest" of the Soviet Union, a practical hostage. Debate still continues as to whether he was forced to write the editorial, but he had seen Trotskyist friends arrested and killed by the Soviet secret police. The Soviet government sent him to work in the Ural Heavy Machinery Plant, a steel factory in the Urals, Yekaterinburg (then Sverdlovsk), where he met Faina Ipat'evna Vakhreva, a native Belarusian. They married on 15 March 1935, and she would later take the Chinese name, Chiang Fang-liang. In December of that year, their son, Hsiao-wen was born."

  4. @Passer by

    Karlin: Czechia is socially liberal
     

    Karlin: See Lyman Stone
     
    Lyman Stone on what explains Czechia becoming what will probably be the highest TFR developed country (apart from Israel) in 2021.

    What's super funny about this is Czechia has a fairly "progressive" reputation and has not had the kind of loudmouthed God And Country-ism of, say, Hungary, yet their policies are in some sense even more "traditionalist."
     
    LMAO : )

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @216, @216

    Middling in the Gender equality index:

    24 14 New Zealand 0.094
    25 8 Australia 0.097
    26 19 United Kingdom 0.109
    26 48 Montenegro 0.109
    28 35 Poland 0.115
    29 32 Greece 0.116
    29 43 Croatia 0.116
    31 31 UAE 0.118
    31 53 Belarus 0.118
    33 14 Israel 0.123
    34 34 Lithuania 0.124
    35 64 Serbia 0.132
    36 27 Czechia 0.136

    But pretty high in other progressive measures:

    Abortion in the Czech Republic is legally allowed up to 12 weeks of pregnancy, with medical indications up to 24 weeks of pregnancy, in case of grave problems with the fetus at any time.

    The Czech Republic is often considered the most progressive former Eastern Bloc country in regards to lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) rights.[1]

    • Replies: @Passer by
    @Triteleia Laxa

    The UN Gender Equality Index is a joke, it covers only several indicators. The WEF one covers dozens of indicators and puts Czechia at number 78, one of the worst offenders in the European Union.


    But pretty high in other progressive measures
     
    And pretty low in other progressive measures, such as third world immigration and diversity quotas too.

    Replies: @Demografie

  5. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Passer by

    Middling in the Gender equality index:

    24 14 New Zealand 0.094
    25 8 Australia 0.097
    26 19 United Kingdom 0.109
    26 48 Montenegro 0.109
    28 35 Poland 0.115
    29 32 Greece 0.116
    29 43 Croatia 0.116
    31 31 UAE 0.118
    31 53 Belarus 0.118
    33 14 Israel 0.123
    34 34 Lithuania 0.124
    35 64 Serbia 0.132
    36 27 Czechia 0.136

    But pretty high in other progressive measures:

    Abortion in the Czech Republic is legally allowed up to 12 weeks of pregnancy, with medical indications up to 24 weeks of pregnancy, in case of grave problems with the fetus at any time.

    The Czech Republic is often considered the most progressive former Eastern Bloc country in regards to lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) rights.[1]

    Replies: @Passer by

    The UN Gender Equality Index is a joke, it covers only several indicators. The WEF one covers dozens of indicators and puts Czechia at number 78, one of the worst offenders in the European Union.

    But pretty high in other progressive measures

    And pretty low in other progressive measures, such as third world immigration and diversity quotas too.

    • Replies: @Demografie
    @Passer by

    You don't understand. It is not respect for the gays and so on. It is pure indifference. We just don't care. I remember time when equal act for gay was in parlament. It passed without any discussion. Nobody discuss these things. We want to live our lives.
    As for the baby boom 🙂 there's change in culture. Our most popular YouTube stars are milfs each having children. In real Czech fashion these girls have kids with different fathers, but they mostly live "traditional" life. If you want better understand Czech family mentality, check this blogger
    https://youtu.be/77ovop-5Pl4
    I don't think Czech solutions can be copy elsewhere. People really don't care. My coworker is former porn actress. Yeah there was joke or two, but people behave normally towards her.
    Czech mentality have some negatives. There are not strong bonds between children and parents in adulthood. Etc

  6. The American Director National Intelligence UFO report is out.

    https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Prelimary-Assessment-UAP-20210625.pdf

    There is nothing new in it. Some members of the UFO community are giddy that things are finally moving and walking back 70 years of secrecy is such a huge project that baby steps are the most that can be expected at this point.

    I have gotten Jacques Vallee’s new book.

    1. I read it in two sittings and like it very much.
    2. It is centered on one case, a 1945 close encounter 3rd kind.
    3. They have extensive testimony from three witnesses. Two witnesses to the original UFO crash landing and one witness who handled alien artifacts in the late 1950’s. Two of the witnesses are still alive including one of the eyewitnesses to the craft and the aliens in 1945.
    4. To me the most interesting information in the book is a casual remark in the end; until they show otherwise all that can be expected from the American government is a snow job on this subject. It has been awhile since I have read or heard anybody use the terminology snow job.

    Also:

    A. After reading the book I wondered why it has gotten virtually no press coverage but I dug around and quickly discovered . . .
    B. His co-author Paola Harris (she did the bulk of the questions in the interviews; Vallee never met one of the witnesses who died before he started working with Harris) is into organized meetings with aliens. Grant Cameron has a book about a group of Peru-based alien contactees at Mt. Shasta and Harris is a leading character in that book. The group claims the aliens give them a message to be at these coordinates on this date at that time and they will show up; 90 people gather at the (x, y, z, t); they claim the aliens show up.
    C. I happened to have Cameron’s book sitting in my un-read stack after buying it a few months ago and it is short and informative but Cameron is not a polished writer. He is a very good speaker.
    D. None of this organized alien field trip extremism is covered in Vallee’s book but Harris is a person who might be considered untouchable by mainstream press.

    If you are a die-hard you might be interested in Cameron’s book:

  7. UFOs. Pshh… All a smoke screen to build up a force in 8 years for an Iran War

    Sums it up exactly.

    • Agree: SIMP simp
  8. Regarding the question of why Muslims wash their feet: I’m skeptical that it had anything to do with odor. These were people with some pretty strong BO, not counting the feet. Anyway, many were shoeless and so well-ventilated.

    I would guess it had something to do with being footsore from walking, or protecting prayer rugs.

  9. Putting aside the issue of his death, what was the matter with John McAfee?

    Haven’t been following him very closely, but I watched a friendly interview in the past year. I found him very jarring. Like, I would be physically uncomfortable to be in the same room with him. His tonality and mannerisms, his unpredictability.

    I was thinking he must have schizophrenia, and/or be on some weird combination of drugs. But I’d be curious if anyone had a better diagnosis.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    He's on softcore libertarianism.

    , @SIMP simp
    @songbird

    McAfee was really into experimenting with various drugs and writing about it.

    , @Sean
    @songbird

    He happened to have a sky high IQ. After having a really good idea and becoming a centi millionaire, he sold his shares in the eponymous business and invested in property, and so of course in 2008 lost 95 % of it. McAfee simply refused to file US tax returns between 2016 and 2018. I expect his kynurenic acid level became higher as it does in aging men (explaining their worse outcomes in COVID-19; bats live with coronaviruses by selective suppression of immune response). Immune over activation is behind much psychotic behavior. His father was an alcoholic that committed suicide, and McAfee was informed of Spain's decision to extradite him the morning of the day he died. What's to understand?

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Bert
    @songbird

    John McAfee was the epitome of the basic Scots-Irish masculine personality. I have known many similar to him as regards a refusal to back down or knuckle under, a love of adventure, physicality, preference for dying with his boots on, etc. His IQ combined with those traits made him legendary, compared especially to the Bezos/Zuckerberg type of weasel.

  10. @Passer by

    Karlin: Czechia is socially liberal
     

    Karlin: See Lyman Stone
     
    Lyman Stone on what explains Czechia becoming what will probably be the highest TFR developed country (apart from Israel) in 2021.

    What's super funny about this is Czechia has a fairly "progressive" reputation and has not had the kind of loudmouthed God And Country-ism of, say, Hungary, yet their policies are in some sense even more "traditionalist."
     
    LMAO : )

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @216, @216

    Lyman Stone

    A “One billion Americans” type neoconservative.

    Not to be trusted farther than he can be thrown.

  11. @Passer by

    Karlin: Czechia is socially liberal
     

    Karlin: See Lyman Stone
     
    Lyman Stone on what explains Czechia becoming what will probably be the highest TFR developed country (apart from Israel) in 2021.

    What's super funny about this is Czechia has a fairly "progressive" reputation and has not had the kind of loudmouthed God And Country-ism of, say, Hungary, yet their policies are in some sense even more "traditionalist."
     
    LMAO : )

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @216, @216

    In another edition of “The liberal that Karlin really is”, remember when Swedish policies were praised here for having higher fertility?

    Oh wait, it wasn’t ethnic Swedes that boosted the birth rate.

    Rural Redstani have the highest TFR outside of Israel.

    American exceptionalism is real my friends.

    • Replies: @Znzn
    @216

    Was there not some study that it is the Haredis and the Orthodox that are doing the heavy lifting as far as Israel's TFR are concerned?

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @216

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @216

    That's correct.

    * Until recently, they did have relatively high TFRs for their class of country (barring weird outliers like Israel).
    * It was also a more eugenic TFR than in most any developed country: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/what-the-nordics-get-right/
    * The idea that it's all immigrants is a rightoid myth: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2018/11/fertility-of-immigrant-groups-in-denmark-by-generation/

    US TFR is plummeting, probably this has to do with the two pronged assault of rapid secularization + ubiquitous Wokeism making more and more zoomers and millennials literally gay.

    I don't recall ever actively identifying as a conservative or a right-winger, so I can't say I care for ideological labels from rightoids any more than ODS on RationalWiki calling me a white supremacist.

    Replies: @216, @Passer by, @Dmitry, @Truth

  12. @216
    @Passer by

    In another edition of "The liberal that Karlin really is", remember when Swedish policies were praised here for having higher fertility?

    Oh wait, it wasn't ethnic Swedes that boosted the birth rate.

    Rural Redstani have the highest TFR outside of Israel.

    American exceptionalism is real my friends.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Anatoly Karlin

    Was there not some study that it is the Haredis and the Orthodox that are doing the heavy lifting as far as Israel’s TFR are concerned?

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Znzn

    I believe they are like the Amish of the Jews as per family size. Considering that as a group they don't really get on so well with Zionism or the currently constituted state of Israel, I wonder how that may play out if they start to overtake secular Jewish immigration into Israel?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

    Non Haredi have a growth rate of 1.2% while Haredi are at 5%.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    , @216
    @Znzn

    Even secular Jews are above replacement in Israel. Total Jewish fertility is statistically similar with Muslim fertility. While Christian/Druze fertility is rather lower.

    If not for the salience of nationalism, secular Jews would probably be just as abysmal as their counterparts in the rest of the developed world.

    There's nothing present in liberalism today that seems to ask white liberals to reproduce in the interest of liberalism.

  13. …Ukraine using $2B of its meager resources to buy British warships and kneeling for the honor…

    They borrowed the money. I am not sure they plan to pay it back.

    The TFR in Czechia is rising because it is a normal country that has the required infrastructure for having and raising kids. Most of the West doesn’t have it anymore, and US is a complete horror show where kids are basically a privilege of wealth, unless one is designated as “under-privileged”.

    Czechs are not liberal, they are simply permissive and tend not to care what others are doing. But that is not liberalism, Czechs are in general personally quite traditional and conservative. They just don’t force it on others.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Beckow


    Czechs are not liberal, they are simply permissive and tend not to care what others are doing. But that is not liberalism, Czechs are in general personally quite traditional and conservative. They just don’t force it on others.
     
    Sounds extremely liberal. Like when the ACLU defended the Nazis.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @216
    @Beckow


    Most of the West doesn’t have it anymore, and US is a complete horror show where kids are basically a privilege of wealth
     
    Bluestan is not America.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @AnonfromTN, @Svevlad

  14. @Znzn
    @216

    Was there not some study that it is the Haredis and the Orthodox that are doing the heavy lifting as far as Israel's TFR are concerned?

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @216

    I believe they are like the Amish of the Jews as per family size. Considering that as a group they don’t really get on so well with Zionism or the currently constituted state of Israel, I wonder how that may play out if they start to overtake secular Jewish immigration into Israel?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

    Non Haredi have a growth rate of 1.2% while Haredi are at 5%.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Barbarossa


    Lyman Stone on what explains Czechia becoming what will probably be the highest TFR developed country (apart from Israel) in 2021.

    What’s super funny about this is Czechia has a fairly “progressive” reputation and has not had the kind of loudmouthed God And Country-ism of, say, Hungary, yet their policies are in some sense even more “traditionalist.”
     
    yoy TFR changes explain quite little, look at 3-yr rolling averages and prospective parent cohort size. In this metrics Czechia is still firmly within the Central Europan average.

    I wonder how that may play out if they start to overtake secular Jewish immigration into Israel?

    Non Haredi have a growth rate of 1.2% while Haredi are at 5%.

     

    The Haredi takeover of the country need to happen ASAP. Israel will then be a Jewish Republic Pakistan-style (not Iran, which is rapidly secularizing!), and G-d knows what fate awaits Palestineans (who probably has lower fertility than the average Jew then)

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  15. @Beckow

    ...Ukraine using $2B of its meager resources to buy British warships and kneeling for the honor…
     
    They borrowed the money. I am not sure they plan to pay it back.

    The TFR in Czechia is rising because it is a normal country that has the required infrastructure for having and raising kids. Most of the West doesn't have it anymore, and US is a complete horror show where kids are basically a privilege of wealth, unless one is designated as "under-privileged".

    Czechs are not liberal, they are simply permissive and tend not to care what others are doing. But that is not liberalism, Czechs are in general personally quite traditional and conservative. They just don't force it on others.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @216

    Czechs are not liberal, they are simply permissive and tend not to care what others are doing. But that is not liberalism, Czechs are in general personally quite traditional and conservative. They just don’t force it on others.

    Sounds extremely liberal. Like when the ACLU defended the Nazis.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Triteleia Laxa

    You are mistaking indifference for defence. They are not the same thing.

  16. @Triteleia Laxa
    Random question: are there any examples of Russian and Chinese elites intermarrying?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Blinky Bill, @melanf, @melanf

    Not thay I know of (and why would you ask that?)

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Yellowface Anon

    I have strange thoughts?

    Replies: @Not Raul

    , @Blinky Bill
    @Yellowface Anon

    https://lateralthinkingtechnology.wordpress.com/2020/08/16/the-revolution-will-not-be-trending-hong-kong-social-media-and-the-failure-of-attention-politics/

    Have you read it?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  17. @songbird
    Putting aside the issue of his death, what was the matter with John McAfee?

    Haven't been following him very closely, but I watched a friendly interview in the past year. I found him very jarring. Like, I would be physically uncomfortable to be in the same room with him. His tonality and mannerisms, his unpredictability.

    I was thinking he must have schizophrenia, and/or be on some weird combination of drugs. But I'd be curious if anyone had a better diagnosis.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @SIMP simp, @Sean, @Bert

    He’s on softcore libertarianism.

  18. @Barbarossa
    @Znzn

    I believe they are like the Amish of the Jews as per family size. Considering that as a group they don't really get on so well with Zionism or the currently constituted state of Israel, I wonder how that may play out if they start to overtake secular Jewish immigration into Israel?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

    Non Haredi have a growth rate of 1.2% while Haredi are at 5%.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Lyman Stone on what explains Czechia becoming what will probably be the highest TFR developed country (apart from Israel) in 2021.

    What’s super funny about this is Czechia has a fairly “progressive” reputation and has not had the kind of loudmouthed God And Country-ism of, say, Hungary, yet their policies are in some sense even more “traditionalist.”

    yoy TFR changes explain quite little, look at 3-yr rolling averages and prospective parent cohort size. In this metrics Czechia is still firmly within the Central Europan average.

    I wonder how that may play out if they start to overtake secular Jewish immigration into Israel?

    Non Haredi have a growth rate of 1.2% while Haredi are at 5%.

    The Haredi takeover of the country need to happen ASAP. Israel will then be a Jewish Republic Pakistan-style (not Iran, which is rapidly secularizing!), and G-d knows what fate awaits Palestineans (who probably has lower fertility than the average Jew then)

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    oh no:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Members_of_Neturei_Karta_Orthodox_Jewish_group_protest_against_Israel.jpg
    https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/styles/cropped_img_md/public/2019-03/neturei%203.jpg?h=dba5e3ef&itok=hjHzBnfc
    https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2019/02/000_1DQ7ER-e1550999066380.jpg
    (Neturei Karta is only a group among a whole spectrum of Haredi opinions ranging to collaborationism to disengagement with Zionist institutions. That said lots of Haredis believe a state of Israel shouldn't be established until the prophetic End Times)

  19. @Yellowface Anon
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Not thay I know of (and why would you ask that?)

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Blinky Bill

    I have strange thoughts?

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Not so strange.

    The intermarriage of USA-UK and UK-Commonwealth elites may have been a major factor in politics for more than a century.

  20. 216 says: • Website
    @Znzn
    @216

    Was there not some study that it is the Haredis and the Orthodox that are doing the heavy lifting as far as Israel's TFR are concerned?

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @216

    Even secular Jews are above replacement in Israel. Total Jewish fertility is statistically similar with Muslim fertility. While Christian/Druze fertility is rather lower.

    If not for the salience of nationalism, secular Jews would probably be just as abysmal as their counterparts in the rest of the developed world.

    There’s nothing present in liberalism today that seems to ask white liberals to reproduce in the interest of liberalism.

  21. @Beckow

    ...Ukraine using $2B of its meager resources to buy British warships and kneeling for the honor…
     
    They borrowed the money. I am not sure they plan to pay it back.

    The TFR in Czechia is rising because it is a normal country that has the required infrastructure for having and raising kids. Most of the West doesn't have it anymore, and US is a complete horror show where kids are basically a privilege of wealth, unless one is designated as "under-privileged".

    Czechs are not liberal, they are simply permissive and tend not to care what others are doing. But that is not liberalism, Czechs are in general personally quite traditional and conservative. They just don't force it on others.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @216

    Most of the West doesn’t have it anymore, and US is a complete horror show where kids are basically a privilege of wealth

    Bluestan is not America.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @216

    There is basically no unified "America", or that has ever existed. At this point we're talking US statistics like the USSR (and I'm not talking about the inaccuracy)

    Audacious Epigone will fare a lot better if he can disaggregate poll data based on this map:
    https://miro.medium.com/max/1838/1*cWrZcapekHfj5aI0HeaWkg.jpeg

    Replies: @216, @SIMP simp, @RadicalCenter

    , @AnonfromTN
    @216

    Yes, bluestan is not America, but it is 40-45 percent of America. Otherwise the country won't be doomed

    , @Svevlad
    @216

    Muh redstan muh bluestan

    Same shit. Columbus should be made right retroactively. 100% of the world's problems immediately solved.

  22. Also:

    Oumuamua: I read Loeb’s paper on oumuamua where he starts off with the Sherlock Holmes thing about eliminating the impossible and what’s left has to be true.

    I do not like that epigram.

    1. It is wrong.
    2. Sherlock Holmes is a fictional detective. Also Doyle promoted a bunch of bogus fairy photographs and was a documented (fool or charlatan). < —— pick one

    The stories are great but please let's not get carried away. This isn't a star trek cult meeting.

    3. The contra-argument is the Rumsfeld unknown unknown business which is logically tight.
    4. Maybe we might call this the Sherlock Holmes Fallacy.

    There is a lot of bias in the wikipedia article of oumuamua that I saw. They said NO evidence it ain't just a rock and the people who say otherwise are incompetent. The artists' depictions which appear based on no data probably don't help.

    Crypto: the head and shoulders pattern is so perfect it almost looks like there is a hidden hand manipulating this market. Please work on another long cryptocurrency piece when you get time! I am on board with the idea that crypto is going to kill it in the the 2030's. It is a pity McAffee got the cocaine jones. That demon has taken out quite a few. Did you ever read that magazine article where the writer was at Jerry Garcia's house and he was cutting up a coke rock the size of a golf ball?

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Malenfant
    @Morton's toes


    Oumuamua: I read Loeb’s paper on oumuamua where he starts off with the Sherlock Holmes thing about eliminating the impossible and what’s left has to be true.

    I do not like that epigram.

    ...

     

    Loeb, whose book on Oumuamua was poorly written and poorly argued, is the worst sort of armchair-philosopher -- the sort who doesn't have a child's grasp of logic, but read Sartre and Camus as a teen and thinks that he knows it all. (This is literally his background in philosophy, as he explains in his book; as a young man, he considered studying philosophy with an eye towards becoming an existentialist philosopher!)

    ...But this doesn't mean that he's wrong about Oumuamua. It only means that, like an incompetent and scatter-brained trial lawyer, he doesn't always make the best case for it.

    The default assumption or null hypothesis that Oumuamua is a completely natural object has a lot of problems. Loeb's hypothesis -- that it's a cosmic buoy or trip-wire -- fits the facts. But there are an awful lot of "unknown unknowns," and it's far too late for us to catch up with Oumuamua, so it'll probably remain mysterious for a very long time.

    But the more time passes without another encounter with an Oumuamua-like object, the stranger it seems.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @mal, @SIMP simp

    , @songbird
    @Morton's toes

    My favorite Holmes quote is this one:

    From a drop of water a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or Niagra without having seen or heard of one or the other.

  23. I’ve come across many western media articles lately about how Russians are refusing vaccines and some saying they’d get vaccinated only with pfizer or moderna. Being anti-vax is one thing. Saying you would get vaxed but don’t trust Russian ones is infuriatingly stupid and downright unpatriotic.

    Seriously, this has to be a whole new level of retarded globohomo worship. Same kind of people who, like those Ukrainian generals, would kneel to a westerner at any chance they get. T

    his begs the question, how does a country like Russia have any future when a fair chunk of its population is this retarded and Russophobic ?

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Californian Candidate

    You're like asking if Florida has a future when DeSantis disavows vaccine passpports and eschew county-level COVID restrictions.

    Florida has a bright future, Russians who either get Sputnik V & being antivaxx too. But not Calis with their blind obedience mind virus and self-Russophobes in the cargo cult.

    , @Levtraro
    @Californian Candidate


    I’ve come across many western media articles lately about how Russians ...
     
    You answered your own question.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Californian Candidate

    Yes, that's a thing.

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1409128329211437059

    Numerically, they are far outnumbered by people who don't want a "strange substance" injected their bodies and the like (be it Russian or Western). But yes, there's a small subset of extremely soyish self-hating, West-worshipping liberal Russophobes who would only accept Pfizer.

    Sort of like this meme, but for vaccines:

    https://i.imgur.com/odcSbb0.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Californian Candidate

    There are Russians of all stripes. Having worked with in vitro produced mRNA for 40 years, I would never trust Pfizer or Moderna, as I know that everything they say about their "vaccines " is a lie. But their fairy tales are OK for the ignorant.

    I just got Sputnik V for myself and my daughter based on a simple consideration: whether you believe in COVID or not, this vaccine is the least likely to harm you

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Californian Candidate, @Dmitry, @Dacian Julien Soros

  24. @216
    @Beckow


    Most of the West doesn’t have it anymore, and US is a complete horror show where kids are basically a privilege of wealth
     
    Bluestan is not America.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @AnonfromTN, @Svevlad

    There is basically no unified “America”, or that has ever existed. At this point we’re talking US statistics like the USSR (and I’m not talking about the inaccuracy)

    [MORE]

    Audacious Epigone will fare a lot better if he can disaggregate poll data based on this map:

    • Replies: @216
    @Yellowface Anon

    Much of that territory is denied its rights of self-determination.

    But while there may not be a single nation of "America", we are very much real, and so is our exceptionalism.

    In fact, it is the only reason why the foreigners are here.

    , @SIMP simp
    @Yellowface Anon

    The biggest differences are urban/rural, not between regions.

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Yellowface Anon

    Interesting. Though I’d expect El Norte to extend hundreds of miles farther north than that, into central California, southern Nevada, the rest of Arizona and New Mexico, and Colorado most of the way up to Colorado Springs or so.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  25. @Californian Candidate
    I've come across many western media articles lately about how Russians are refusing vaccines and some saying they'd get vaccinated only with pfizer or moderna. Being anti-vax is one thing. Saying you would get vaxed but don't trust Russian ones is infuriatingly stupid and downright unpatriotic.

    Seriously, this has to be a whole new level of retarded globohomo worship. Same kind of people who, like those Ukrainian generals, would kneel to a westerner at any chance they get. T

    his begs the question, how does a country like Russia have any future when a fair chunk of its population is this retarded and Russophobic ?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Levtraro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AnonfromTN

    You’re like asking if Florida has a future when DeSantis disavows vaccine passpports and eschew county-level COVID restrictions.

    Florida has a bright future, Russians who either get Sputnik V & being antivaxx too. But not Calis with their blind obedience mind virus and self-Russophobes in the cargo cult.

  26. @Yellowface Anon
    @Barbarossa


    Lyman Stone on what explains Czechia becoming what will probably be the highest TFR developed country (apart from Israel) in 2021.

    What’s super funny about this is Czechia has a fairly “progressive” reputation and has not had the kind of loudmouthed God And Country-ism of, say, Hungary, yet their policies are in some sense even more “traditionalist.”
     
    yoy TFR changes explain quite little, look at 3-yr rolling averages and prospective parent cohort size. In this metrics Czechia is still firmly within the Central Europan average.

    I wonder how that may play out if they start to overtake secular Jewish immigration into Israel?

    Non Haredi have a growth rate of 1.2% while Haredi are at 5%.

     

    The Haredi takeover of the country need to happen ASAP. Israel will then be a Jewish Republic Pakistan-style (not Iran, which is rapidly secularizing!), and G-d knows what fate awaits Palestineans (who probably has lower fertility than the average Jew then)

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    oh no:

    (Neturei Karta is only a group among a whole spectrum of Haredi opinions ranging to collaborationism to disengagement with Zionist institutions. That said lots of Haredis believe a state of Israel shouldn’t be established until the prophetic End Times)

  27. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Beckow


    Czechs are not liberal, they are simply permissive and tend not to care what others are doing. But that is not liberalism, Czechs are in general personally quite traditional and conservative. They just don’t force it on others.
     
    Sounds extremely liberal. Like when the ACLU defended the Nazis.

    Replies: @Beckow

    You are mistaking indifference for defence. They are not the same thing.

  28. @Triteleia Laxa
    Random question: are there any examples of Russian and Chinese elites intermarrying?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Blinky Bill, @melanf, @melanf

    The leader of the Chinese Communist Party and the daughter of Russian nobleman who was stripped of his lands in the Russian revolution.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Blinky Bill

    Which leader of the communist party? I have heard of the Kuomintang leader marrying a Russian (actually Belarusian) woman. But not that communist party leader.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

  29. @Morton's toes
    Also:

    Oumuamua: I read Loeb's paper on oumuamua where he starts off with the Sherlock Holmes thing about eliminating the impossible and what's left has to be true.

    I do not like that epigram.

    1. It is wrong.
    2. Sherlock Holmes is a fictional detective. Also Doyle promoted a bunch of bogus fairy photographs and was a documented (fool or charlatan). < ------ pick one

    The stories are great but please let's not get carried away. This isn't a star trek cult meeting.

    3. The contra-argument is the Rumsfeld unknown unknown business which is logically tight.
    4. Maybe we might call this the Sherlock Holmes Fallacy.

    There is a lot of bias in the wikipedia article of oumuamua that I saw. They said NO evidence it ain't just a rock and the people who say otherwise are incompetent. The artists' depictions which appear based on no data probably don't help.

    Crypto: the head and shoulders pattern is so perfect it almost looks like there is a hidden hand manipulating this market. Please work on another long cryptocurrency piece when you get time! I am on board with the idea that crypto is going to kill it in the the 2030's. It is a pity McAffee got the cocaine jones. That demon has taken out quite a few. Did you ever read that magazine article where the writer was at Jerry Garcia's house and he was cutting up a coke rock the size of a golf ball?

    Replies: @Malenfant, @songbird

    Oumuamua: I read Loeb’s paper on oumuamua where he starts off with the Sherlock Holmes thing about eliminating the impossible and what’s left has to be true.

    I do not like that epigram.

    Loeb, whose book on Oumuamua was poorly written and poorly argued, is the worst sort of armchair-philosopher — the sort who doesn’t have a child’s grasp of logic, but read Sartre and Camus as a teen and thinks that he knows it all. (This is literally his background in philosophy, as he explains in his book; as a young man, he considered studying philosophy with an eye towards becoming an existentialist philosopher!)

    …But this doesn’t mean that he’s wrong about Oumuamua. It only means that, like an incompetent and scatter-brained trial lawyer, he doesn’t always make the best case for it.

    The default assumption or null hypothesis that Oumuamua is a completely natural object has a lot of problems. Loeb’s hypothesis — that it’s a cosmic buoy or trip-wire — fits the facts. But there are an awful lot of “unknown unknowns,” and it’s far too late for us to catch up with Oumuamua, so it’ll probably remain mysterious for a very long time.

    But the more time passes without another encounter with an Oumuamua-like object, the stranger it seems.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Malenfant


    it’s far too late for us to catch up with Oumuamua
     
    I think it’d be still possible, but it’d require something on the order of magnitude the US invested in the Moon program, so it’s not going to happen. I think with the present rocket technology it’d be possible to send a probe there. It’s of course impossible if it’s a maneuvering object (which would be the point of going after it…), so it might be a mission impossible anyway.
    , @mal
    @Malenfant


    But the more time passes without another encounter with an Oumuamua-like object, the stranger it seems.
     
    I agree. "Just a rock" hypothesis doesn't fly because rocks don't accelerate. Invisible gas producing ice is on more solid ground but even that is very suspect because of red color and extreme reflectivity. If red color is tholins and they all managed to recondense due to evaporative cooling somehow, where did they come from in the first place? You need hydrocarbons to make tholins, so that kinda cancels pure ice hypothesis, and invisible gas becomes highly unlikely (we can usually detect large quantities of volatile carbon chemicals). And if tholin coat formed elsewhere and got there later (coated the ice chunk in a collision for example), where are the rest of collision fragments? Why is Oumuamua alone?
    , @SIMP simp
    @Malenfant

    There's also 2I/Borisov

    Replies: @Malenfant

  30. Noah Smith and Scott Alexander are exchanging views views on Jewish immigration to the US, and the degree to which it was selective.

    Interesting stuff – but one thing caught my eye in Noah’s latest post. The Sephardim are apparently almost as represented among elites as Ashkenazim are by this graph. Shouldn’t this be surprising? My understanding was that they don’t have the outlier IQ that Ashkenazim do.

    Unless Sephardim in the US ARE in fact selected, while Ashkenazim are not (clearly selective migration is a big part of the story for many groups in that graph – India and Iran being classic examples of countries getting brain drained).

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @angmoh



    The Sephardim are apparently almost as represented among elites as Ashkenazim are by this graph. Shouldn’t this be surprising? My understanding was that they don’t have the outlier IQ that Ashkenazim do.

     

    There is also ethnic nepotism.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    , @reiner Tor
    @angmoh


    The Sephardim are apparently almost as represented among elites as Ashkenazim are by this graph… My understanding was that they don’t have the outlier IQ that Ashkenazim do.
     
    That’s a data point in favor of the Kevin MacDonald hypothesis of Jewish IQ and against the Greg Cochran hypothesis. But like you said there are other explanations, so I wouldn’t make much of it.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    @angmoh

    Revilo P. Oliver wrote many years ago that Sephardim in America originated with elite urban mercantile populations from Amsterdam and London who arrived in colonial times, largely in connection with commerce.

    I have no idea if this is correct, but if it is then it would suggest that Sephardim were selected. Ashkenazim, other than a small number of elite Jews from Germany (e.g. Warburg, Kuhn, Loeb, etc.), quite obviously were not.

    It's worth pointing out that the Confederate statesman Judah P. Benjamin was a Sephardic Jew. The first Jew of any prominence in America, Mordecai Noah, was also Sephardic.

    Oliver's article which brought my attention this can be read here: http://www.revilo-oliver.com/news/1985/05/another-jewish-problem/

  31. News from Russia!

    Reddit thread here

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @DNS

    FYI, in Russian the word meaning gay man is a pretty common swear word

    , @216
    @DNS

    The Rainbow is an appropriation of God from Genesis.

    It belongs not to Pride.

    Replies: @DNS

  32. @angmoh
    Noah Smith and Scott Alexander are exchanging views views on Jewish immigration to the US, and the degree to which it was selective.

    Interesting stuff - but one thing caught my eye in Noah's latest post. The Sephardim are apparently almost as represented among elites as Ashkenazim are by this graph. Shouldn't this be surprising? My understanding was that they don't have the outlier IQ that Ashkenazim do.

    Unless Sephardim in the US ARE in fact selected, while Ashkenazim are not (clearly selective migration is a big part of the story for many groups in that graph - India and Iran being classic examples of countries getting brain drained).

    Replies: @Pericles, @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson

    The Sephardim are apparently almost as represented among elites as Ashkenazim are by this graph. Shouldn’t this be surprising? My understanding was that they don’t have the outlier IQ that Ashkenazim do.

    There is also ethnic nepotism.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Pericles

    Jewish power is only slightly derived from their big brains. The main factor is there are few enough of them that they have to stick together and there also are enough of them that their sticking together provides them with power. It is the Goldilocks porridge just right size.

    If there were much more of them they wouldn't be able to stick together and if there were fewer of them their sticky-togetherness would be inconsequential.

  33. A question for anyone interested in IQ and genetics who can answer:

    1. In attempting to explain to a friend that intelligence is hereditary, said friend countered that reading is associated with possibly higher IQ than inherited intelligence, which friend claims has wider variability. Counterpoint: smart people read to their smart kids. Dumb people don’t read to their dumb or possibly mediocre children (Matilda is a fictional character for a reason.) The question is: does anyone know if Intelligence studies have accounted for this? I’m sure they have, I just need to know what it is.

    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

    3. I must have missed this, why did the US government hate McAfee?

    Unrelated to questions, that’s great news for Czechia. Here’s hoping we can replicate those policies here. I’m intrigued how they support home family life vs child centers in practice. Though, I know Karlin said before the breeders have a more powerful effect than state support. Both surely just be beneficial.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Boomthorkell


    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg
    https://previews.123rf.com/images/saiko3p/saiko3p1710/saiko3p171000088/87458760-genghis-khan-statue-at-chinggis-square-sukhbaatar-square-in-ulaanbaatar-mongolia.jpg
    https://www.globe-hopper.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Genghis-Khan-standbeeld.jpg

    3. I must have missed this, why did the US government hate McAfee?
     
    Suspected homicide + tax evasion (most importantly) + softcore libertarianism

    Replies: @songbird

    , @AltanBakshi
    @Boomthorkell


    Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?
     
    No! Although there are no surviving depictions of Chingghis Khaan made during his lifetime, we have lots of paintings of his granchildren, whose mothers and grandmother Börte were ethnically Mongols or very close.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg/800px-YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg

    Like this drawing of Great Khaan, Emperor and Chakravartin Khubilai, drawn by Nepali artist Araniko.

    Red hair is extremely recessive, so it's no wonder if some isolated Mongols were gingers in the ancient past.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @Wignat is a slur
    @Boomthorkell


    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

     

    No, but Timur and Shah Ismail were (both redheads).

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Boomthorkell


    Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

     

    My short answer is that it doesn't matter, if you are beta and soy IRL its irrelevant if your ancestor is some mighty conqueror.

    Long answer is that yes but complicated. Mongoloids have the following y-haplogroups:
    O - Han/Korean/Mongolian/Manchu/SE Asians
    C - Mongols/Manchus/Altaics/small amts in Slavs and other Euros
    D - Tibetic and Ainu (yes quite exotic)
    Q - Siberian/Am Indians
    N - North Eurasian (60% Finns/Northeast Euros, 10% Northern Hans/Mongols/Koreans)

    https://imgur.com/a/ZAzBQaL

    Genghis and the Manchu Emperors were C; Tang dynasty founders (who may have partly looked Uralic) were N; Han dynasty founder was O. (https://famousdna.wiki.fc2.com)

    What's throwing a wrench in all this is ​blond hair supposed originated in Siberia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_North_Eurasian):
    https://imgur.com/a/2IFuQRb

    …and the discovery of Dragon Man, just last week in northern Manchuria. Which may be the closest relative to Sapiens, even more than Neanderthals, discovered in Europe.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Man_(archaic_human)

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  34. I did say Wokeism is literally White Supremacy… here is a another anecdote to that effect.

    Woke Victoria’s Secret … that photo looks like some uncanny Netflix super hero group. In the larger scheme of things, there are many underwear chains ‘for women of all sizes and colors’ so I guess VS will now suffer some brand dilution as it sinks back into the undifferentiated morass.

    (Aside: Surely just a coincidence that Wexner, owner of VS and massive patron of a certain Jeffrey Epstein, is distancing himself at warp speed 9 from any unfortunate associations.)

  35. @Californian Candidate
    I've come across many western media articles lately about how Russians are refusing vaccines and some saying they'd get vaccinated only with pfizer or moderna. Being anti-vax is one thing. Saying you would get vaxed but don't trust Russian ones is infuriatingly stupid and downright unpatriotic.

    Seriously, this has to be a whole new level of retarded globohomo worship. Same kind of people who, like those Ukrainian generals, would kneel to a westerner at any chance they get. T

    his begs the question, how does a country like Russia have any future when a fair chunk of its population is this retarded and Russophobic ?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Levtraro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AnonfromTN

    I’ve come across many western media articles lately about how Russians …

    You answered your own question.

  36. Russian vaccination rate finally increasing

    https://gogov.ru/articles/covid-v-stats

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
  37. @angmoh
    Noah Smith and Scott Alexander are exchanging views views on Jewish immigration to the US, and the degree to which it was selective.

    Interesting stuff - but one thing caught my eye in Noah's latest post. The Sephardim are apparently almost as represented among elites as Ashkenazim are by this graph. Shouldn't this be surprising? My understanding was that they don't have the outlier IQ that Ashkenazim do.

    Unless Sephardim in the US ARE in fact selected, while Ashkenazim are not (clearly selective migration is a big part of the story for many groups in that graph - India and Iran being classic examples of countries getting brain drained).

    Replies: @Pericles, @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson

    The Sephardim are apparently almost as represented among elites as Ashkenazim are by this graph… My understanding was that they don’t have the outlier IQ that Ashkenazim do.

    That’s a data point in favor of the Kevin MacDonald hypothesis of Jewish IQ and against the Greg Cochran hypothesis. But like you said there are other explanations, so I wouldn’t make much of it.

  38. @Malenfant
    @Morton's toes


    Oumuamua: I read Loeb’s paper on oumuamua where he starts off with the Sherlock Holmes thing about eliminating the impossible and what’s left has to be true.

    I do not like that epigram.

    ...

     

    Loeb, whose book on Oumuamua was poorly written and poorly argued, is the worst sort of armchair-philosopher -- the sort who doesn't have a child's grasp of logic, but read Sartre and Camus as a teen and thinks that he knows it all. (This is literally his background in philosophy, as he explains in his book; as a young man, he considered studying philosophy with an eye towards becoming an existentialist philosopher!)

    ...But this doesn't mean that he's wrong about Oumuamua. It only means that, like an incompetent and scatter-brained trial lawyer, he doesn't always make the best case for it.

    The default assumption or null hypothesis that Oumuamua is a completely natural object has a lot of problems. Loeb's hypothesis -- that it's a cosmic buoy or trip-wire -- fits the facts. But there are an awful lot of "unknown unknowns," and it's far too late for us to catch up with Oumuamua, so it'll probably remain mysterious for a very long time.

    But the more time passes without another encounter with an Oumuamua-like object, the stranger it seems.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @mal, @SIMP simp

    it’s far too late for us to catch up with Oumuamua

    I think it’d be still possible, but it’d require something on the order of magnitude the US invested in the Moon program, so it’s not going to happen. I think with the present rocket technology it’d be possible to send a probe there. It’s of course impossible if it’s a maneuvering object (which would be the point of going after it…), so it might be a mission impossible anyway.

  39. Karlin or some people here claimed that Cuba is a good example of white supremacism in socialist multicultural context, but it’s only natural that white hispanics are overrepresented among Cuba’s leadership, because more than 2/3 of Cuba’s population are of European origin, and unlike in Mexico or some other Latin American countries, Cuban whites are genetically mostly of European origin. Also I believe that state of Cuba does not practice “positive discrimination” in such scale as American state, therefore it’s not surprising if elites are mostly Europeans in a European majority state, especially when Europeans are cognitively…

    Therefore Cuba is not good example of white supremacism in a country where whites are a minority, like they will be in the near future USA.

    Finds the same thing even for Kyrgyzstan: Richer and more powerful tribes had greater representation in 1970s Soviet elite.

    Such logic does not take into consideration historical context.
    Before the revolution Kyrgysia was under a Russian colonization and local elites were Russians and other Europeans, therefore it’s only natural that Soviet Korenizatsiya policies led to elevation of native elites, which previously had no political power.

    Btw who said that revolution eats her children or something? Very good saying…

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @AltanBakshi


    I did say Wokeism is literally White Supremacy… here is a another anecdote to that effect.
     
    Rather than straightforward White Supremacy that interesting VS image looks like evidence of...

    ...Whiteshift:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whiteshift-Populism-Immigration-Future-Majorities/dp/0141986638/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14DW9X0KDTGEY&dchild=1&keywords=whiteshift+eric+kaufmann&qid=1624916972&sprefix=Whiteshift%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-1

    It's a question whether white elites that seem to want to implement the Whiteshift so badly can really be White Supremacists, in the current meaning of the term.

    , @Coconuts
    @AltanBakshi

    Sorry about that Altan, the message 94 I just posted was supposed to be a comment on one of the points in AK's intro to the thread.

    To add to this:


    Also I believe that state of Cuba does not practice “positive discrimination” in such scale as American state, therefore it’s not surprising if elites are mostly Europeans in a European majority state, especially when Europeans are cognitively…
     
    I suppose in Cuba the way to resolve racial issues is still understood in terms of classical Marxist thinking as being tied up with both proletarian nationalism and economics (the implementation of a socialist system etc.). Whereas in the US, CRT seems to prioritise making an alliance between middle class and wealthy liberal whites and ethno-nationalist blacks, on the basis of trying to funnel money and resources away from whites who might vote for the Republicans to these blacks and other minority groups.

    I am not in the US but this is what it basically looks like from the outside.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  40. @Passer by
    @Triteleia Laxa

    The UN Gender Equality Index is a joke, it covers only several indicators. The WEF one covers dozens of indicators and puts Czechia at number 78, one of the worst offenders in the European Union.


    But pretty high in other progressive measures
     
    And pretty low in other progressive measures, such as third world immigration and diversity quotas too.

    Replies: @Demografie

    You don’t understand. It is not respect for the gays and so on. It is pure indifference. We just don’t care. I remember time when equal act for gay was in parlament. It passed without any discussion. Nobody discuss these things. We want to live our lives.
    As for the baby boom 🙂 there’s change in culture. Our most popular YouTube stars are milfs each having children. In real Czech fashion these girls have kids with different fathers, but they mostly live “traditional” life. If you want better understand Czech family mentality, check this blogger

    I don’t think Czech solutions can be copy elsewhere. People really don’t care. My coworker is former porn actress. Yeah there was joke or two, but people behave normally towards her.
    Czech mentality have some negatives. There are not strong bonds between children and parents in adulthood. Etc

  41. Unless it was guiding CIA hand tweeting some sadness lately instead of real McAfee, it could just have been mundane prison depression as well, which could lead to such outcome:

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @sudden death

    The main issue is why he would be murdered. He was going to be extradited to the US. What is it that he could do from an American prison but couldn’t do from a Spanish?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

  42. @Boomthorkell
    A question for anyone interested in IQ and genetics who can answer:

    1. In attempting to explain to a friend that intelligence is hereditary, said friend countered that reading is associated with possibly higher IQ than inherited intelligence, which friend claims has wider variability. Counterpoint: smart people read to their smart kids. Dumb people don't read to their dumb or possibly mediocre children (Matilda is a fictional character for a reason.) The question is: does anyone know if Intelligence studies have accounted for this? I'm sure they have, I just need to know what it is.

    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

    3. I must have missed this, why did the US government hate McAfee?

    Unrelated to questions, that's great news for Czechia. Here's hoping we can replicate those policies here. I'm intrigued how they support home family life vs child centers in practice. Though, I know Karlin said before the breeders have a more powerful effect than state support. Both surely just be beneficial.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

    https://previews.123rf.com/images/saiko3p/saiko3p1710/saiko3p171000088/87458760-genghis-khan-statue-at-chinggis-square-sukhbaatar-square-in-ulaanbaatar-mongolia.jpg

    3. I must have missed this, why did the US government hate McAfee?

    Suspected homicide + tax evasion (most importantly) + softcore libertarianism

    • Thanks: Boomthorkell
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    He did once say that Jews control Hollywood, and they were trying to make it hate speech to notice. Basically, I think there was a political edge beyond being a libertarian, which is often a word that encompasses too many people.

    They probably didn't like him posing with guns either, or his support of crypto.

  43. @Boomthorkell
    A question for anyone interested in IQ and genetics who can answer:

    1. In attempting to explain to a friend that intelligence is hereditary, said friend countered that reading is associated with possibly higher IQ than inherited intelligence, which friend claims has wider variability. Counterpoint: smart people read to their smart kids. Dumb people don't read to their dumb or possibly mediocre children (Matilda is a fictional character for a reason.) The question is: does anyone know if Intelligence studies have accounted for this? I'm sure they have, I just need to know what it is.

    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

    3. I must have missed this, why did the US government hate McAfee?

    Unrelated to questions, that's great news for Czechia. Here's hoping we can replicate those policies here. I'm intrigued how they support home family life vs child centers in practice. Though, I know Karlin said before the breeders have a more powerful effect than state support. Both surely just be beneficial.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

    No! Although there are no surviving depictions of Chingghis Khaan made during his lifetime, we have lots of paintings of his granchildren, whose mothers and grandmother Börte were ethnically Mongols or very close.

    Like this drawing of Great Khaan, Emperor and Chakravartin Khubilai, drawn by Nepali artist Araniko.

    Red hair is extremely recessive, so it’s no wonder if some isolated Mongols were gingers in the ancient past.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    I forgot to add that Araniko was Khubilai's friend, so he knew very well how Khubilai looked. Also he draw many other drawings of Khubilais deceased relatives, so it's quite likely that Khubilai and other Mongols instructed him how to properly draw the face of Chingghis.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

  44. @sudden death
    Unless it was guiding CIA hand tweeting some sadness lately instead of real McAfee, it could just have been mundane prison depression as well, which could lead to such outcome:

    https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1402325105854849036

    https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1403019184074788875

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    The main issue is why he would be murdered. He was going to be extradited to the US. What is it that he could do from an American prison but couldn’t do from a Spanish?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @reiner Tor

    Yes, but soyish "logic" and "evidence" is trumped by the fact that glowniggers couldn't possibly suffer a man as powerful as this to live.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjBgNwAVLWQ

    Replies: @Jim Christian

  45. @AltanBakshi
    @Boomthorkell


    Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?
     
    No! Although there are no surviving depictions of Chingghis Khaan made during his lifetime, we have lots of paintings of his granchildren, whose mothers and grandmother Börte were ethnically Mongols or very close.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg/800px-YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg

    Like this drawing of Great Khaan, Emperor and Chakravartin Khubilai, drawn by Nepali artist Araniko.

    Red hair is extremely recessive, so it's no wonder if some isolated Mongols were gingers in the ancient past.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    I forgot to add that Araniko was Khubilai’s friend, so he knew very well how Khubilai looked. Also he draw many other drawings of Khubilais deceased relatives, so it’s quite likely that Khubilai and other Mongols instructed him how to properly draw the face of Chingghis.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    @AltanBakshi

    Thanks to both of you. I recall earlier discussions on this website where people were presenting genetic tests of "early Mongols", but it seemed odd to me about the Genghis claims. I feel if he was white, as in white white, the Mongols would talk more about it in their Secret History. I mean, they aren't Tocharians.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  46. The elites of 18C Hungary largely preserved their positions under 20C Communist Hungary.

    They didn’t enjoy life 1945-57, but after 1957 their children were accepted to university (some were already too old and working in jobs to do that…), and even before that lawyers willing to collaborate were kept in service, as the regime mostly kept a veneer of legality and some kind of legal continuity with at least the 1945-49 short-lived republic. Obviously doctors couldn’t be replaced overnight either.

    But many were deported to the countryside or interned in camps and died there. It was a traumatic experience for most. The quality of the elite deteriorated, because many of the best minds just left the country, and those who were more willing to collaborate or simply more corrupt had better opportunities and could entrench themselves even in the post-communist period.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Thanks: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @reiner Tor


    ...They didn’t enjoy life 1945-57, but after 1957 their children were accepted to university
     
    One's joy shouldn't depend on whose slogans control the public space, but I see you point. Let me be devil's advocate since this narrative seldom gets challenged.

    The university education under socialism (communism if you prefer) depended almost wholly on your exams - very rigorous tests. One exception were so-called political studies: law, humanities, history. In all other areas unless your family belonged to a very tiny officially persecuted group it was all based on your ability. This interestingly enough also applied to drama, music or languages - they were probably more open to talent than is currently the case in the West.

    The small group of disfavoured people was usually high members of the previous elite and people openly supporting foreign countries. But even among those, studying medicine or math was ok, e.g. Havel's brother was a Professor of Mathematics in Prague completely disproving the Western myth that Havel wouldn't be allowed to study, thus his lack of education. He wanted to be a "movie director", commies said "f...k you, your uncle worked for the Nazis".

    What this belly-aching about restrictions overlooks is that up till 1950 members of lower classes were kept from university education - many turned out to be very smart. It also overlooks that cushy, political positions are always and everywhere kept for the ruling class and their supporters. As so often, when criticising commies, people accuse them of mostly every ruling elite does. Critisize them for their inept economics, but this political stuff often looks just silly.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Hibernian

    , @AP
    @reiner Tor

    Similar situation in Galicia. Many escaped West, those who did not endured a wave of persecution until the early 1950s. But by the 1960s and later the survivors were already on top again. Among my relatives, one was chief engineer at a secret electronics factory, several university professors, another (whose hardcore Russophile parents poisoned themselves in 1939 rather than live under Soviets) became a judge.

    Attempts at social leveling are a futile battle against nature.

  47. @Triteleia Laxa
    Random question: are there any examples of Russian and Chinese elites intermarrying?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Blinky Bill, @melanf, @melanf

  48. @Triteleia Laxa
    Random question: are there any examples of Russian and Chinese elites intermarrying?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Blinky Bill, @melanf, @melanf

    Chiang Kai-shek’s son Chiang Ching-kuo

    ” Chiang Kai-shek purged KMT leftists, had Communists arrested or killed, and expelled his Soviet advisers. Chiang Ching-kuo responded from Moscow with an editorial that harshly criticized his father’s actions but was nonetheless detained as a “guest” of the Soviet Union, a practical hostage. Debate still continues as to whether he was forced to write the editorial, but he had seen Trotskyist friends arrested and killed by the Soviet secret police. The Soviet government sent him to work in the Ural Heavy Machinery Plant, a steel factory in the Urals, Yekaterinburg (then Sverdlovsk), where he met Faina Ipat’evna Vakhreva, a native Belarusian. They married on 15 March 1935, and she would later take the Chinese name, Chiang Fang-liang. In December of that year, their son, Hsiao-wen was born.”

  49. The US homicide surge from last year is still going strong. Did anything similar happen in any other Western country or is this a United States only phenomenon?

  50. @Blinky Bill
    @Triteleia Laxa

    The leader of the Chinese Communist Party and the daughter of Russian nobleman who was stripped of his lands in the Russian revolution.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Which leader of the communist party? I have heard of the Kuomintang leader marrying a Russian (actually Belarusian) woman. But not that communist party leader.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @reiner Tor

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Lisan

  51. @reiner Tor
    @Blinky Bill

    Which leader of the communist party? I have heard of the Kuomintang leader marrying a Russian (actually Belarusian) woman. But not that communist party leader.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    • Thanks: reiner Tor
  52. @Yellowface Anon
    @Boomthorkell


    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg
    https://previews.123rf.com/images/saiko3p/saiko3p1710/saiko3p171000088/87458760-genghis-khan-statue-at-chinggis-square-sukhbaatar-square-in-ulaanbaatar-mongolia.jpg
    https://www.globe-hopper.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Genghis-Khan-standbeeld.jpg

    3. I must have missed this, why did the US government hate McAfee?
     
    Suspected homicide + tax evasion (most importantly) + softcore libertarianism

    Replies: @songbird

    He did once say that Jews control Hollywood, and they were trying to make it hate speech to notice. Basically, I think there was a political edge beyond being a libertarian, which is often a word that encompasses too many people.

    They probably didn’t like him posing with guns either, or his support of crypto.

  53. @216
    @Passer by

    In another edition of "The liberal that Karlin really is", remember when Swedish policies were praised here for having higher fertility?

    Oh wait, it wasn't ethnic Swedes that boosted the birth rate.

    Rural Redstani have the highest TFR outside of Israel.

    American exceptionalism is real my friends.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Anatoly Karlin

    That’s correct.

    * Until recently, they did have relatively high TFRs for their class of country (barring weird outliers like Israel).
    * It was also a more eugenic TFR than in most any developed country: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/what-the-nordics-get-right/
    * The idea that it’s all immigrants is a rightoid myth: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2018/11/fertility-of-immigrant-groups-in-denmark-by-generation/

    US TFR is plummeting, probably this has to do with the two pronged assault of rapid secularization + ubiquitous Wokeism making more and more zoomers and millennials literally gay.

    I don’t recall ever actively identifying as a conservative or a right-winger, so I can’t say I care for ideological labels from rightoids any more than ODS on RationalWiki calling me a white supremacist.

    • Replies: @216
    @Anatoly Karlin


    * The idea that it’s all immigrants is a rightoid myth: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2018/11/fertility-of-immigrant-groups-in-denmark-by-generation/
     
    That's in Denmark. And the "second generation" is but a fragment of the first generation data. Nothing more than an attempt at reviving magic dirt under a different brand.

    And we shouldn't be calling things "eugenic" in a system based on progressive credentialism.

    US TFR is plummeting, probably this has to do with the two pronged assault of rapid secularization + ubiquitous Wokeism making more and more zoomers and millennials literally gay.

     

    You identify the problem (while ignoring rural white conservatives, who are larger than many European countries)

    I don’t recall ever actively identifying as a conservative or a right-winger, so I can’t say I care for ideological labels from rightoids any more than ODS on RationalWiki calling me a white supremacist.

     

    While refusing to adopt the solution.

    Contra Franz Fanon, the US Right is the real wretched of the Earth. But despite the relentless defamation, both foreign and domestic, we are the only group in the developed world that wishes to survive.

    The liberal is the same in every time and every place. And like much of the US Right's corrupt leadership, you are only about preserving the rotten liberal system.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    , @Passer by
    @Anatoly Karlin

    @216: Oh wait, it wasn’t ethnic Swedes that boosted the birth rate.
     

    AK: Answers about Denmark to deflect : )

    Actually non-western migrants have higher fertility rate in Sweden.

    https://gefira.org/en/2018/07/27/sweden-will-remain-sweden-but-in-name/


    It was also a more eugenic TFR than in most any developed country:
     
    In developed countries nearly 50 % of women get university education compared to 10 - 15 % in developing countries. Which is partly to blame for the appearance of more eugenic TFR in rich countries. Since ever growing university education is used for estimating dysgenics, instead using constant top 10 % - 15 % of people on the Bell Curve, or the people with PhD degrees only.
    , @Dmitry
    @Anatoly Karlin

    There isn't evidence, that society's open or closed attitude to LGBT people, will have an influence on fertility rates. It seems to me, more that politicians that want to appeal to the boomer dislike of LGBT people, have connected these two topics without any empirical evidence.

    -

    Israel cargo cults to all the European/Western culture of LGBT rights. And secular people there love the latest Western fashions and trends. Gay culture is such a cargo cult in Israel, that it seems to look like this in walking videos of today:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqIW6cvfEek

    And with the secular people, there is still replacement fertility rate common for its Middle Eastern geographical region and similar to its Muslim neighbours like Lebanon, Jordan and Iran - as an example of an independence from the surface affiliations or popular symbols in a culture, which can be Islamist in Iran, or LGBT in Israel, with the same end result between the countries.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @Truth
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Hey Toly, what if you really don't understand Russia's role in world politics? Just supposing...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf78Px8RNYU

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

  54. @Morton's toes
    Also:

    Oumuamua: I read Loeb's paper on oumuamua where he starts off with the Sherlock Holmes thing about eliminating the impossible and what's left has to be true.

    I do not like that epigram.

    1. It is wrong.
    2. Sherlock Holmes is a fictional detective. Also Doyle promoted a bunch of bogus fairy photographs and was a documented (fool or charlatan). < ------ pick one

    The stories are great but please let's not get carried away. This isn't a star trek cult meeting.

    3. The contra-argument is the Rumsfeld unknown unknown business which is logically tight.
    4. Maybe we might call this the Sherlock Holmes Fallacy.

    There is a lot of bias in the wikipedia article of oumuamua that I saw. They said NO evidence it ain't just a rock and the people who say otherwise are incompetent. The artists' depictions which appear based on no data probably don't help.

    Crypto: the head and shoulders pattern is so perfect it almost looks like there is a hidden hand manipulating this market. Please work on another long cryptocurrency piece when you get time! I am on board with the idea that crypto is going to kill it in the the 2030's. It is a pity McAffee got the cocaine jones. That demon has taken out quite a few. Did you ever read that magazine article where the writer was at Jerry Garcia's house and he was cutting up a coke rock the size of a golf ball?

    Replies: @Malenfant, @songbird

    My favorite Holmes quote is this one:

    From a drop of water a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or Niagra without having seen or heard of one or the other.

  55. @Californian Candidate
    I've come across many western media articles lately about how Russians are refusing vaccines and some saying they'd get vaccinated only with pfizer or moderna. Being anti-vax is one thing. Saying you would get vaxed but don't trust Russian ones is infuriatingly stupid and downright unpatriotic.

    Seriously, this has to be a whole new level of retarded globohomo worship. Same kind of people who, like those Ukrainian generals, would kneel to a westerner at any chance they get. T

    his begs the question, how does a country like Russia have any future when a fair chunk of its population is this retarded and Russophobic ?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Levtraro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AnonfromTN

    Yes, that’s a thing.

    Numerically, they are far outnumbered by people who don’t want a “strange substance” injected their bodies and the like (be it Russian or Western). But yes, there’s a small subset of extremely soyish self-hating, West-worshipping liberal Russophobes who would only accept Pfizer.

    Sort of like this meme, but for vaccines:

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Anatoly Karlin


    “strange substance”
     
    mRNA therapies can be legitimately called "strange" since it still needs 5-10 years of testing to eliminate most issues (which mRNA vaccines don't have yet). Everything else? Either it's denying the existence of SARS-COV-2 (there's a convincing case), doesn't think you need to have mandatory flu vaccines (floomerism), popular consciousness rapidly realizing the risks of past and present vaccinations, or just plainly hates the way the lockdowns and false reopening is forced down the globe's mouth.
    You can laugh at some of them but in all their worldviews their own decisions make good sense and back by their best knowledge of COVID. Says a lot about liberal institutional collapse.
  56. It’s become clear to me that MLK Day directly spawned Juneteenth. In the South, it helped sideline Robert E. Lee’s birthday, helping Confederates to be villainized. In the North, it eliminated Lincoln’s birthday, during which the Emancipation Proclamation was promoted.

    Each cuck has an echo in time.

  57. 216 says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin
    @216

    That's correct.

    * Until recently, they did have relatively high TFRs for their class of country (barring weird outliers like Israel).
    * It was also a more eugenic TFR than in most any developed country: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/what-the-nordics-get-right/
    * The idea that it's all immigrants is a rightoid myth: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2018/11/fertility-of-immigrant-groups-in-denmark-by-generation/

    US TFR is plummeting, probably this has to do with the two pronged assault of rapid secularization + ubiquitous Wokeism making more and more zoomers and millennials literally gay.

    I don't recall ever actively identifying as a conservative or a right-winger, so I can't say I care for ideological labels from rightoids any more than ODS on RationalWiki calling me a white supremacist.

    Replies: @216, @Passer by, @Dmitry, @Truth

    * The idea that it’s all immigrants is a rightoid myth: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2018/11/fertility-of-immigrant-groups-in-denmark-by-generation/

    That’s in Denmark. And the “second generation” is but a fragment of the first generation data. Nothing more than an attempt at reviving magic dirt under a different brand.

    And we shouldn’t be calling things “eugenic” in a system based on progressive credentialism.

    US TFR is plummeting, probably this has to do with the two pronged assault of rapid secularization + ubiquitous Wokeism making more and more zoomers and millennials literally gay.

    You identify the problem (while ignoring rural white conservatives, who are larger than many European countries)

    I don’t recall ever actively identifying as a conservative or a right-winger, so I can’t say I care for ideological labels from rightoids any more than ODS on RationalWiki calling me a white supremacist.

    While refusing to adopt the solution.

    Contra Franz Fanon, the US Right is the real wretched of the Earth. But despite the relentless defamation, both foreign and domestic, we are the only group in the developed world that wishes to survive.

    The liberal is the same in every time and every place. And like much of the US Right’s corrupt leadership, you are only about preserving the rotten liberal system.

    • Disagree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @216


    we are the only group in the developed world that wishes to survive.
     
    Everyone wants to, that's their ultimate goal and calculation, if your worldview is still derived from Enlightenment thinkers.

    Levels of misguidance makes all the difference.

    Replies: @216

  58. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Californian Candidate

    Yes, that's a thing.

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1409128329211437059

    Numerically, they are far outnumbered by people who don't want a "strange substance" injected their bodies and the like (be it Russian or Western). But yes, there's a small subset of extremely soyish self-hating, West-worshipping liberal Russophobes who would only accept Pfizer.

    Sort of like this meme, but for vaccines:

    https://i.imgur.com/odcSbb0.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    “strange substance”

    mRNA therapies can be legitimately called “strange” since it still needs 5-10 years of testing to eliminate most issues (which mRNA vaccines don’t have yet). Everything else? Either it’s denying the existence of SARS-COV-2 (there’s a convincing case), doesn’t think you need to have mandatory flu vaccines (floomerism), popular consciousness rapidly realizing the risks of past and present vaccinations, or just plainly hates the way the lockdowns and false reopening is forced down the globe’s mouth.
    You can laugh at some of them but in all their worldviews their own decisions make good sense and back by their best knowledge of COVID. Says a lot about liberal institutional collapse.

  59. @216
    @Anatoly Karlin


    * The idea that it’s all immigrants is a rightoid myth: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2018/11/fertility-of-immigrant-groups-in-denmark-by-generation/
     
    That's in Denmark. And the "second generation" is but a fragment of the first generation data. Nothing more than an attempt at reviving magic dirt under a different brand.

    And we shouldn't be calling things "eugenic" in a system based on progressive credentialism.

    US TFR is plummeting, probably this has to do with the two pronged assault of rapid secularization + ubiquitous Wokeism making more and more zoomers and millennials literally gay.

     

    You identify the problem (while ignoring rural white conservatives, who are larger than many European countries)

    I don’t recall ever actively identifying as a conservative or a right-winger, so I can’t say I care for ideological labels from rightoids any more than ODS on RationalWiki calling me a white supremacist.

     

    While refusing to adopt the solution.

    Contra Franz Fanon, the US Right is the real wretched of the Earth. But despite the relentless defamation, both foreign and domestic, we are the only group in the developed world that wishes to survive.

    The liberal is the same in every time and every place. And like much of the US Right's corrupt leadership, you are only about preserving the rotten liberal system.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    we are the only group in the developed world that wishes to survive.

    Everyone wants to, that’s their ultimate goal and calculation, if your worldview is still derived from Enlightenment thinkers.

    Levels of misguidance makes all the difference.

    • Replies: @216
    @Yellowface Anon


    if your worldview is still derived from Enlightenment thinkers.
     
    The first time Enlightenment thinkers got into government, they immediately committed a genocide of Catholics in the Vendee.

    These thinkers are the source of liberalism that needs to be purged.

    Everyone wants to, that’s their ultimate goal and calculation
     
    US white liberals genuinely hate their own people, and believe that social justice is for Europeans to lose all of their countries and ultimately be bred out of existence.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  60. @Yellowface Anon
    @216

    There is basically no unified "America", or that has ever existed. At this point we're talking US statistics like the USSR (and I'm not talking about the inaccuracy)

    Audacious Epigone will fare a lot better if he can disaggregate poll data based on this map:
    https://miro.medium.com/max/1838/1*cWrZcapekHfj5aI0HeaWkg.jpeg

    Replies: @216, @SIMP simp, @RadicalCenter

    Much of that territory is denied its rights of self-determination.

    But while there may not be a single nation of “America”, we are very much real, and so is our exceptionalism.

    In fact, it is the only reason why the foreigners are here.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • LOL: Jatt Aryaa
  61. 216 says: • Website
    @Yellowface Anon
    @216


    we are the only group in the developed world that wishes to survive.
     
    Everyone wants to, that's their ultimate goal and calculation, if your worldview is still derived from Enlightenment thinkers.

    Levels of misguidance makes all the difference.

    Replies: @216

    if your worldview is still derived from Enlightenment thinkers.

    The first time Enlightenment thinkers got into government, they immediately committed a genocide of Catholics in the Vendee.

    These thinkers are the source of liberalism that needs to be purged.

    Everyone wants to, that’s their ultimate goal and calculation

    US white liberals genuinely hate their own people, and believe that social justice is for Europeans to lose all of their countries and ultimately be bred out of existence.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @216

    Will agree with you how liberalism and the so-called "Enlightenment" values is "rotten" from the start. The world would have been much poorer but better place without those things, and North America would be "better" for your if the states went the way of Boer Republics pre-British invasion than a relatively centralized state we have now.

    Are these what you want to hear? I'm not "American" and will never be an "American" even if I settle in North America.

  62. @reiner Tor
    @sudden death

    The main issue is why he would be murdered. He was going to be extradited to the US. What is it that he could do from an American prison but couldn’t do from a Spanish?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Yes, but soyish “logic” and “evidence” is trumped by the fact that glowniggers couldn’t possibly suffer a man as powerful as this to live.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Anatoly? Didn't you receive some engineering background in your formal education? I've been begging Sailerman to open a thread on the Miami collapse, but he has declined, so far. Have you looked at it from a point of science besides the global warming crap they're trying to use, I believe, to cover up? That takes an engineering/scientific-capable mind, not my layman's vacant thought processes. This is a very big deal. For some reason the Israeli IDF was in there with dogs searching the rubble, no doubt also sniffing for explosive residue. But that's just my cynicism outrunning my meds (ok, scotch). Andrei Martyanov is probably a good go-to but nothing from him, either.

    Any thoughts? On the building that is, heh.

  63. @216
    @Yellowface Anon


    if your worldview is still derived from Enlightenment thinkers.
     
    The first time Enlightenment thinkers got into government, they immediately committed a genocide of Catholics in the Vendee.

    These thinkers are the source of liberalism that needs to be purged.

    Everyone wants to, that’s their ultimate goal and calculation
     
    US white liberals genuinely hate their own people, and believe that social justice is for Europeans to lose all of their countries and ultimately be bred out of existence.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Will agree with you how liberalism and the so-called “Enlightenment” values is “rotten” from the start. The world would have been much poorer but better place without those things, and North America would be “better” for your if the states went the way of Boer Republics pre-British invasion than a relatively centralized state we have now.

    Are these what you want to hear? I’m not “American” and will never be an “American” even if I settle in North America.

  64. @Anatoly Karlin
    This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes - within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

    Replies: @Jim Christian, @Mikhail, @Blinky Bill, @Dissident, @Grahamsno(G64)

    Gaspar disagrees, Anatoly! That’s like saying Nyet to Don Corleone’s offer. You know, the one you canta refuse!

  65. @Pericles
    @angmoh



    The Sephardim are apparently almost as represented among elites as Ashkenazim are by this graph. Shouldn’t this be surprising? My understanding was that they don’t have the outlier IQ that Ashkenazim do.

     

    There is also ethnic nepotism.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    Jewish power is only slightly derived from their big brains. The main factor is there are few enough of them that they have to stick together and there also are enough of them that their sticking together provides them with power. It is the Goldilocks porridge just right size.

    If there were much more of them they wouldn’t be able to stick together and if there were fewer of them their sticky-togetherness would be inconsequential.

  66. @216
    @Beckow


    Most of the West doesn’t have it anymore, and US is a complete horror show where kids are basically a privilege of wealth
     
    Bluestan is not America.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @AnonfromTN, @Svevlad

    Yes, bluestan is not America, but it is 40-45 percent of America. Otherwise the country won’t be doomed

  67. @reiner Tor

    The elites of 18C Hungary largely preserved their positions under 20C Communist Hungary.
     
    They didn’t enjoy life 1945-57, but after 1957 their children were accepted to university (some were already too old and working in jobs to do that…), and even before that lawyers willing to collaborate were kept in service, as the regime mostly kept a veneer of legality and some kind of legal continuity with at least the 1945-49 short-lived republic. Obviously doctors couldn’t be replaced overnight either.

    But many were deported to the countryside or interned in camps and died there. It was a traumatic experience for most. The quality of the elite deteriorated, because many of the best minds just left the country, and those who were more willing to collaborate or simply more corrupt had better opportunities and could entrench themselves even in the post-communist period.

    Replies: @Beckow, @AP

    …They didn’t enjoy life 1945-57, but after 1957 their children were accepted to university

    One’s joy shouldn’t depend on whose slogans control the public space, but I see you point. Let me be devil’s advocate since this narrative seldom gets challenged.

    The university education under socialism (communism if you prefer) depended almost wholly on your exams – very rigorous tests. One exception were so-called political studies: law, humanities, history. In all other areas unless your family belonged to a very tiny officially persecuted group it was all based on your ability. This interestingly enough also applied to drama, music or languages – they were probably more open to talent than is currently the case in the West.

    The small group of disfavoured people was usually high members of the previous elite and people openly supporting foreign countries. But even among those, studying medicine or math was ok, e.g. Havel’s brother was a Professor of Mathematics in Prague completely disproving the Western myth that Havel wouldn’t be allowed to study, thus his lack of education. He wanted to be a “movie director”, commies said “f…k you, your uncle worked for the Nazis”.

    What this belly-aching about restrictions overlooks is that up till 1950 members of lower classes were kept from university education – many turned out to be very smart. It also overlooks that cushy, political positions are always and everywhere kept for the ruling class and their supporters. As so often, when criticising commies, people accuse them of mostly every ruling elite does. Critisize them for their inept economics, but this political stuff often looks just silly.

    • Thanks: iffen
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Beckow

    I don’t know about Czechoslovakia (and it wasn’t exactly the same in all communist countries), but in Hungary 1949-57 large sections of society were barred from higher education. After 1957 basically everyone was accepted who got the scores on the entrance exam. Already 1945-48 life was getting progressively worse for these people and they saw the writing on the wall, but not all of them had a chance to leave.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Hibernian
    @Beckow


    As so often, when criticising commies, people accuse them of mostly every ruling elite does.
     
    Not all ruling elites commit mass murder.

    Cue those who say they all do.

    The United States of 1877-1916 was not the same as the one that dropped the Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and, yes, I am aware of the Indian Wars.

    Replies: @Beckow

  68. @Californian Candidate
    I've come across many western media articles lately about how Russians are refusing vaccines and some saying they'd get vaccinated only with pfizer or moderna. Being anti-vax is one thing. Saying you would get vaxed but don't trust Russian ones is infuriatingly stupid and downright unpatriotic.

    Seriously, this has to be a whole new level of retarded globohomo worship. Same kind of people who, like those Ukrainian generals, would kneel to a westerner at any chance they get. T

    his begs the question, how does a country like Russia have any future when a fair chunk of its population is this retarded and Russophobic ?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Levtraro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AnonfromTN

    There are Russians of all stripes. Having worked with in vitro produced mRNA for 40 years, I would never trust Pfizer or Moderna, as I know that everything they say about their “vaccines ” is a lie. But their fairy tales are OK for the ignorant.

    I just got Sputnik V for myself and my daughter based on a simple consideration: whether you believe in COVID or not, this vaccine is the least likely to harm you

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @AnonfromTN

    This is probably why I'll either get Sinovac or stay unvaccinated, depending on how things go in HK.

    Have you done posts detailing how mRNA technologies should really be done and used, and why its current use in COVID vaccines is improper (if not harmful)? We need some genuine expert opinions to critically examine or counter the officially-sanctioned ones.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Californian Candidate
    @AnonfromTN

    I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject. Would you care to elaborate on that? What part of Pfizer and Moderna is a lie compared to Sputnik V? Their effectiveness rates? Length of protection? Or maybe they are not disclosing long term side effects?

    I know Sputnik is adenovirus based which is considered better than the mRNA based vaccines due better protection of the DNA inside the adenovirus’s tougher protein coat. But aside from mRNA being fragile, I'm not aware of what other issues may exist.

    Replies: @Levtraro, @AnonfromTN

    , @Dmitry
    @AnonfromTN

    My girlfriend was gullible enough to be injected with Pfizer vaccine last week, and the only problem was a painful arm, and she hasn't turned into a reptilian overlord yet - that's not to say there are no signs of this in her personality, but none which didn't pre-exist the vaccination. Short-term safety of all the major vaccines is very high, and has been tested with many millions of people. ​Long-safety of none of the vaccines is known, regardless of which country that produced them (which is not a reliable way to judge long-term safety of medications).

    From the selfish point of view, as I am not in high-risk category for coronavirus, I would of course prefer not to be injected with any of vaccines until a few more years into the future. Although from the same selfish point of view, it is desirable that enough of the low-risk category population will still disregard this calculation, and therefore attain to herd-immunity levels during the pandemic. In those countries where a sufficient proportion of the population will be vaccinated to attain herd-immunity, then the unvaccinated people will be still "free-riders" in terms of the anti-pandemic benefits of a country's successful vaccine rollout.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @AnonfromTN

    , @Dacian Julien Soros
    @AnonfromTN

    I used to believe adenovirus vaccines are superior to mRNA vaccines because the former were tested. But the truth is, there is only one adenovirus vaccine approved in the world.

    On a closer reading, informed by the scientism of 2020, there are multiple red flags:
    - The vaccine was developed in part in Oxford, where they can't randomize
    - It was tested in Sierra Leone, where they can't treat diarrhea
    - It was approved in July 2020, after fear of covid rushed everything.
    - It is still not approved in the US, where Donald Trump made it possible for various drugs to be approved with weakest efficacy-surrogate data. (Read the label for casimersen.)

    I would cut down on optimism.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  69. AP says:
    @reiner Tor

    The elites of 18C Hungary largely preserved their positions under 20C Communist Hungary.
     
    They didn’t enjoy life 1945-57, but after 1957 their children were accepted to university (some were already too old and working in jobs to do that…), and even before that lawyers willing to collaborate were kept in service, as the regime mostly kept a veneer of legality and some kind of legal continuity with at least the 1945-49 short-lived republic. Obviously doctors couldn’t be replaced overnight either.

    But many were deported to the countryside or interned in camps and died there. It was a traumatic experience for most. The quality of the elite deteriorated, because many of the best minds just left the country, and those who were more willing to collaborate or simply more corrupt had better opportunities and could entrench themselves even in the post-communist period.

    Replies: @Beckow, @AP

    Similar situation in Galicia. Many escaped West, those who did not endured a wave of persecution until the early 1950s. But by the 1960s and later the survivors were already on top again. Among my relatives, one was chief engineer at a secret electronics factory, several university professors, another (whose hardcore Russophile parents poisoned themselves in 1939 rather than live under Soviets) became a judge.

    Attempts at social leveling are a futile battle against nature.

  70. Read thru what Shamir wrote a few days ago and immediately understood what Karlin meant by “lockdown in Moscow”.

    Also seen Scott Howard’s newest piece written from a stanch Exilic (Huxleyan) perspective. Quite a good read, but I’m already having fatigue from reading those appalling facts.

  71. @DNS
    News from Russia!

    https://i.ibb.co/pw79hrF/Screenshot-20210628-074252-2.png

    Reddit thread here

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @216

    FYI, in Russian the word meaning gay man is a pretty common swear word

  72. @AnonfromTN
    @Californian Candidate

    There are Russians of all stripes. Having worked with in vitro produced mRNA for 40 years, I would never trust Pfizer or Moderna, as I know that everything they say about their "vaccines " is a lie. But their fairy tales are OK for the ignorant.

    I just got Sputnik V for myself and my daughter based on a simple consideration: whether you believe in COVID or not, this vaccine is the least likely to harm you

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Californian Candidate, @Dmitry, @Dacian Julien Soros

    This is probably why I’ll either get Sinovac or stay unvaccinated, depending on how things go in HK.

    Have you done posts detailing how mRNA technologies should really be done and used, and why its current use in COVID vaccines is improper (if not harmful)? We need some genuine expert opinions to critically examine or counter the officially-sanctioned ones.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Yellowface Anon

    I know for sure that the way Pfizer and Moderna describe it in their official info things cannot work. The corollary is that what they say about "vaccine " composition is also not true.

    Thus, I have no data for scientific evaluation. This leaves only "let the buyer beware " as a guiding principle

  73. @Boomthorkell
    A question for anyone interested in IQ and genetics who can answer:

    1. In attempting to explain to a friend that intelligence is hereditary, said friend countered that reading is associated with possibly higher IQ than inherited intelligence, which friend claims has wider variability. Counterpoint: smart people read to their smart kids. Dumb people don't read to their dumb or possibly mediocre children (Matilda is a fictional character for a reason.) The question is: does anyone know if Intelligence studies have accounted for this? I'm sure they have, I just need to know what it is.

    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

    3. I must have missed this, why did the US government hate McAfee?

    Unrelated to questions, that's great news for Czechia. Here's hoping we can replicate those policies here. I'm intrigued how they support home family life vs child centers in practice. Though, I know Karlin said before the breeders have a more powerful effect than state support. Both surely just be beneficial.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

    No, but Timur and Shah Ismail were (both redheads).

    • Thanks: Boomthorkell
    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    @Wignat is a slur

    Ismail was definitely indo-european. Greek, Persian, etc. Typical child of a middle eastern elite harem.

  74. @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    I forgot to add that Araniko was Khubilai's friend, so he knew very well how Khubilai looked. Also he draw many other drawings of Khubilais deceased relatives, so it's quite likely that Khubilai and other Mongols instructed him how to properly draw the face of Chingghis.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

    Thanks to both of you. I recall earlier discussions on this website where people were presenting genetic tests of “early Mongols”, but it seemed odd to me about the Genghis claims. I feel if he was white, as in white white, the Mongols would talk more about it in their Secret History. I mean, they aren’t Tocharians.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Boomthorkell

    Well Marco Polo said that Mongols have a fair complexion. Which again shows how idiotic is to use American colonial concepts like "white people," outside of former Anglo colonies. Europeans are Europeans, many average Greeks and Bulgarians are swarthier than Northeastern Asians.

    The race of Tamerlan is well known, for Soviets opened his tomb in 1941 and found his skeleton. There's even facial reconstruction, made by famous Soviet archeologist and forensic scientist Mikhail Gerasimov.

    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5625/1118136.33/0_8bbe7_370ccb8a_XL.jpg

    Purely Altaic and Mongolic face.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur, @AP, @BlackFlag

  75. @Wignat is a slur
    @Boomthorkell


    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

     

    No, but Timur and Shah Ismail were (both redheads).

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

    Ismail was definitely indo-european. Greek, Persian, etc. Typical child of a middle eastern elite harem.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
  76. @DNS
    News from Russia!

    https://i.ibb.co/pw79hrF/Screenshot-20210628-074252-2.png

    Reddit thread here

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @216

    The Rainbow is an appropriation of God from Genesis.

    It belongs not to Pride.

    • Replies: @DNS
    @216


    The Rainbow is an appropriation of God from Genesis.

    It belongs not to Pride.
     
    Too late, the rainbow now belongs to the Alphabet People, there shan't be a People on this Earth who will not know of this association.

    Afghanistan's accidental gay pride

    The pioneer Afghan Pajhwok news agency took it upon itself to investigate this unusual sociocultural phenomenon, sending a reporter to interview drivers who had decorated their cars with gay pride stickers and rear banners. After all, these Chinese-made car accessories had suddenly become popular, available in any garage supplying vehicle parts.

    Even more remarkably, Afghan drivers seemed to have little concern about using their cars to openly advertise being gay and proud of it. In a country where social conservatism sometimes results in gay men sharing their life with their partner of choice and an arranged wife so as to keep up appearances, there was certainly something very unusual about this apparently new openness.

    Needless to say, Pajhwok's reporter soon discovered that Afghans who had decorated their cars with the rainbow symbol had no idea what it stood for. For them it was just the newest car fashion accessory but, on learning of its meaning in the west, drivers immediately started removing it.
     
  77. @Anatoly Karlin
    @216

    That's correct.

    * Until recently, they did have relatively high TFRs for their class of country (barring weird outliers like Israel).
    * It was also a more eugenic TFR than in most any developed country: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/what-the-nordics-get-right/
    * The idea that it's all immigrants is a rightoid myth: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2018/11/fertility-of-immigrant-groups-in-denmark-by-generation/

    US TFR is plummeting, probably this has to do with the two pronged assault of rapid secularization + ubiquitous Wokeism making more and more zoomers and millennials literally gay.

    I don't recall ever actively identifying as a conservative or a right-winger, so I can't say I care for ideological labels from rightoids any more than ODS on RationalWiki calling me a white supremacist.

    Replies: @216, @Passer by, @Dmitry, @Truth

    : Oh wait, it wasn’t ethnic Swedes that boosted the birth rate.

    AK: Answers about Denmark to deflect : )

    Actually non-western migrants have higher fertility rate in Sweden.

    https://gefira.org/en/2018/07/27/sweden-will-remain-sweden-but-in-name/

    It was also a more eugenic TFR than in most any developed country:

    In developed countries nearly 50 % of women get university education compared to 10 – 15 % in developing countries. Which is partly to blame for the appearance of more eugenic TFR in rich countries. Since ever growing university education is used for estimating dysgenics, instead using constant top 10 % – 15 % of people on the Bell Curve, or the people with PhD degrees only.

    • Thanks: AltanBakshi, 216
  78. @Boomthorkell
    @AltanBakshi

    Thanks to both of you. I recall earlier discussions on this website where people were presenting genetic tests of "early Mongols", but it seemed odd to me about the Genghis claims. I feel if he was white, as in white white, the Mongols would talk more about it in their Secret History. I mean, they aren't Tocharians.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Well Marco Polo said that Mongols have a fair complexion. Which again shows how idiotic is to use American colonial concepts like “white people,” outside of former Anglo colonies. Europeans are Europeans, many average Greeks and Bulgarians are swarthier than Northeastern Asians.

    The race of Tamerlan is well known, for Soviets opened his tomb in 1941 and found his skeleton. There’s even facial reconstruction, made by famous Soviet archeologist and forensic scientist Mikhail Gerasimov.

    Purely Altaic and Mongolic face.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    Oh Boomthorkell I forgot to mention that Mongols have more Indo-European or "white" admixture, than other Asians like Han and Koreans. There was clearly some mixing with ancient steppe Aryans, though not as much as in the case of Central Asian Türks.

    , @Wignat is a slur
    @AltanBakshi

    I remember Fomenko (I know) had a lot of criticisms of that reconstruction which sounded plausible, although I am struggling to find them again. He did doubt the epicanthic folds though.

    The Roman who visited the camp of Attilla the Hun commented on their yellowish skin.

    , @AP
    @AltanBakshi

    Opening Tamerlane’s tomb caused the invasion of the USSR and loss of 25 million lives.

    Replies: @Agathoklis

    , @BlackFlag
    @AltanBakshi

    Yes, he also said the Japanese were fair but that was a secondhand account. On the contrary, he doesn't talk about the Cathays as being fair-skinned and clearly differentiates them from the Mongols on a number of features.

    How come the Europeans, including Marco Polo, referred to the Mongols as "Tatars?" Weren't the Tatars more Indo-European looking? The Mongols integrated many of them into their armies but you would think Marco Polo would distinguish them, especially since he presumably learned Mongolian.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  79. @AltanBakshi
    @Boomthorkell

    Well Marco Polo said that Mongols have a fair complexion. Which again shows how idiotic is to use American colonial concepts like "white people," outside of former Anglo colonies. Europeans are Europeans, many average Greeks and Bulgarians are swarthier than Northeastern Asians.

    The race of Tamerlan is well known, for Soviets opened his tomb in 1941 and found his skeleton. There's even facial reconstruction, made by famous Soviet archeologist and forensic scientist Mikhail Gerasimov.

    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5625/1118136.33/0_8bbe7_370ccb8a_XL.jpg

    Purely Altaic and Mongolic face.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur, @AP, @BlackFlag

    Oh Boomthorkell I forgot to mention that Mongols have more Indo-European or “white” admixture, than other Asians like Han and Koreans. There was clearly some mixing with ancient steppe Aryans, though not as much as in the case of Central Asian Türks.

  80. A123 says: • Website

    Humor for the open thread

    From the recurring series:
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/category/the-week-in-pictures

    PEACE 😇

     

     

    [MORE]

     

     

     

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @A123

    Instead of memes that reinforce GOP and Trumpist idiosyncracy have this little cuddling raccoon:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4kjCwrUUAcv8j9.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  81. Hot take concerning bus stop gate:

    1: Unusually clever Ukrainians purchased British provocation. Unusually clever because the significance of intruding into Russian waters on 22.06. was apparently lost on the Brits, they could have demanded more money for the provocation.
    To those not in the know, Russia invading US air space on 9/11 would be similar, but somewhat less so.

    2: The leak is more likely British internal. Essentially, there are those within British decision making to whom the issue with 22.06. was clear, and who, while quite stridently Russophobic, are at least somewhat aware of what is actually happening. The leak was done to embarass the people at “appropriate ministries” who drank the coolaid and are true believers.

    3: Its probably better for the continuation of mankind of British/US “decision makers” who fully believe their own bullshit are purged from decision making.

  82. @AltanBakshi
    @Boomthorkell

    Well Marco Polo said that Mongols have a fair complexion. Which again shows how idiotic is to use American colonial concepts like "white people," outside of former Anglo colonies. Europeans are Europeans, many average Greeks and Bulgarians are swarthier than Northeastern Asians.

    The race of Tamerlan is well known, for Soviets opened his tomb in 1941 and found his skeleton. There's even facial reconstruction, made by famous Soviet archeologist and forensic scientist Mikhail Gerasimov.

    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5625/1118136.33/0_8bbe7_370ccb8a_XL.jpg

    Purely Altaic and Mongolic face.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur, @AP, @BlackFlag

    I remember Fomenko (I know) had a lot of criticisms of that reconstruction which sounded plausible, although I am struggling to find them again. He did doubt the epicanthic folds though.

    The Roman who visited the camp of Attilla the Hun commented on their yellowish skin.

  83. @Anatoly Karlin
    @reiner Tor

    Yes, but soyish "logic" and "evidence" is trumped by the fact that glowniggers couldn't possibly suffer a man as powerful as this to live.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjBgNwAVLWQ

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    Anatoly? Didn’t you receive some engineering background in your formal education? I’ve been begging Sailerman to open a thread on the Miami collapse, but he has declined, so far. Have you looked at it from a point of science besides the global warming crap they’re trying to use, I believe, to cover up? That takes an engineering/scientific-capable mind, not my layman’s vacant thought processes. This is a very big deal. For some reason the Israeli IDF was in there with dogs searching the rubble, no doubt also sniffing for explosive residue. But that’s just my cynicism outrunning my meds (ok, scotch). Andrei Martyanov is probably a good go-to but nothing from him, either.

    Any thoughts? On the building that is, heh.

  84. @AltanBakshi
    @Boomthorkell

    Well Marco Polo said that Mongols have a fair complexion. Which again shows how idiotic is to use American colonial concepts like "white people," outside of former Anglo colonies. Europeans are Europeans, many average Greeks and Bulgarians are swarthier than Northeastern Asians.

    The race of Tamerlan is well known, for Soviets opened his tomb in 1941 and found his skeleton. There's even facial reconstruction, made by famous Soviet archeologist and forensic scientist Mikhail Gerasimov.

    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5625/1118136.33/0_8bbe7_370ccb8a_XL.jpg

    Purely Altaic and Mongolic face.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur, @AP, @BlackFlag

    Opening Tamerlane’s tomb caused the invasion of the USSR and loss of 25 million lives.

    • Agree: Thorfinnsson
    • Replies: @Agathoklis
    @AP

    1941 is a bizarre time to be opening up Tamerlane's tomb. Didn't the Soviets have something better to do?

    Replies: @AP

  85. @216
    @Beckow


    Most of the West doesn’t have it anymore, and US is a complete horror show where kids are basically a privilege of wealth
     
    Bluestan is not America.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @AnonfromTN, @Svevlad

    Muh redstan muh bluestan

    Same shit. Columbus should be made right retroactively. 100% of the world’s problems immediately solved.

  86. Liquor Control Board of Ontario (LCBO) pulls Stalinskaya Vodka from shelves:

    As the brand hit the shelves, the Ukrainian community began sending letters to the LCBO to stop the sales, saying the name stirs up dreaded memories associated with the Soviet Union and Stalin.

    … Ukrainian Canada and the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, groups representing the diaspora, wrote a number of posts on social media over the month of June to bring awareness about the issue.

    “Stalin deported and annihilated whole ethnic communities of Chechens, Ingushes, Tatars; organized a man-made genocide Holodomor killing millions of Ukrainians; built a regime that has been mass-murdering people with contrarian opinions and beliefs,” Ukrainian Canada said in a post.

    Ukrainian community member Nick Krawetz said, like others, he contacted the LCBO immediately after learning the product was sold in its stores.

    “Like millions of Ukrainian families, relatives from my family and my wife’s tragically lost their lives due to Stalin’s tyrannical and murderous policies,” Krawetz told CTV news Toronto on Thursday. “I chose to speak out to honour their eternal memory.”

    The diaspora groups welcomed the LCBO’s decision, saying that the crown corporation responded swiftly to the request

    Link

  87. Не надо быть проницательным, чтобы в черепе Тимура увидеть типичные монголоидные черты: яркая бракифалня, очевидно, уплощенное лицо, значительная его ширина и высота. Все это как нельзя лучше связывается с письменными документами, свидетельствующими о происхождении Тимура из рода барласов.

    http://www.rusanthropology.ru/index.php/informatsiya/novosti/629-gerasimov-m-m-portret-tamerlana

    .
    .

    The Roman who visited the camp of Attilla the Hun commented on their yellowish skin.

    Not yellowish, but swarthy or bronze like, actually I have mentioned this fact about Attila previously here on unz.com. Anyone who has travelled in Asian countryside, can confirm that East Asian skin is extremely adaptable, when under the sun, like farmers, it can get as dark as North Indian skin, but when not in sun, like monks, it can be as fair as cream. In my opinion if one just considers pragmatically which type of skin is the best, then it’s Northeast Asian, for it’s naturally fair, but tans well under the sun, unlike skin of pure Nordic stock, which just burns or gets pink, but Nordic people have other good qualities. These things are not a zero sum game in a world where everything is under a constant flux. Btw isn’t the skin of Mediterraneans somewhat similar in this matter? Though its rare to see Greeks having as fair skin as modern day young Koreans and Japanese…

    That’s why Khagan Attila who lived his whole life outdoors as warrior, had a swarthy skin, and that’s why sophisticated Khagan Khubilai, who lived among Chinese literati, in beautiful gardens and palaces, had a fair skin.

    [MORE]
    Here do you see? Older Tibetan nomads are extremely swarthy, for they have lived their whole lives under the sun and icy wind, their skin is often like old bronze, leathery and dark, but monks who have spent their lives inside temples and monasteries, have fair complexion.

    Here’s a Tibetan high lama
    Here an example of Mongol nobleman.

    • Agree: Boomthorkell
    • Replies: @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    In my opinion if one just considers pragmatically which type of skin is the best, then it’s Northeast Asian, for it’s naturally fair, but tans well under the sun, unlike skin of pure Nordic stock, which just burns or gets pink,
     
    Are you confusing Celtic with Nordic? Swedes and Germans tend to tan easily. It's the Irish and Scots who are pale and burn.

    https://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/16417329/1080full-moa-mattsson.jpg

    https://www.sportfrauen.net/storage/app/uploads/public/5a5/e4c/0e8/thumb_651_2917x1859_241_285_customcrop_1300_10000.jpg

    Replies: @SafeNow, @AltanBakshi, @Svevlad

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AltanBakshi


    Northeast Asian, for it’s naturally fair, but tans well under the sun

     


    https://imgur.com/a/2bi26hG
    https://imgur.com/a/UjZGalz
  88. DNS says:
    @216
    @DNS

    The Rainbow is an appropriation of God from Genesis.

    It belongs not to Pride.

    Replies: @DNS

    The Rainbow is an appropriation of God from Genesis.

    It belongs not to Pride.

    Too late, the rainbow now belongs to the Alphabet People, there shan’t be a People on this Earth who will not know of this association.

    Afghanistan’s accidental gay pride

    The pioneer Afghan Pajhwok news agency took it upon itself to investigate this unusual sociocultural phenomenon, sending a reporter to interview drivers who had decorated their cars with gay pride stickers and rear banners. After all, these Chinese-made car accessories had suddenly become popular, available in any garage supplying vehicle parts.

    Even more remarkably, Afghan drivers seemed to have little concern about using their cars to openly advertise being gay and proud of it. In a country where social conservatism sometimes results in gay men sharing their life with their partner of choice and an arranged wife so as to keep up appearances, there was certainly something very unusual about this apparently new openness.

    Needless to say, Pajhwok’s reporter soon discovered that Afghans who had decorated their cars with the rainbow symbol had no idea what it stood for. For them it was just the newest car fashion accessory but, on learning of its meaning in the west, drivers immediately started removing it.

  89. mal says:
    @Malenfant
    @Morton's toes


    Oumuamua: I read Loeb’s paper on oumuamua where he starts off with the Sherlock Holmes thing about eliminating the impossible and what’s left has to be true.

    I do not like that epigram.

    ...

     

    Loeb, whose book on Oumuamua was poorly written and poorly argued, is the worst sort of armchair-philosopher -- the sort who doesn't have a child's grasp of logic, but read Sartre and Camus as a teen and thinks that he knows it all. (This is literally his background in philosophy, as he explains in his book; as a young man, he considered studying philosophy with an eye towards becoming an existentialist philosopher!)

    ...But this doesn't mean that he's wrong about Oumuamua. It only means that, like an incompetent and scatter-brained trial lawyer, he doesn't always make the best case for it.

    The default assumption or null hypothesis that Oumuamua is a completely natural object has a lot of problems. Loeb's hypothesis -- that it's a cosmic buoy or trip-wire -- fits the facts. But there are an awful lot of "unknown unknowns," and it's far too late for us to catch up with Oumuamua, so it'll probably remain mysterious for a very long time.

    But the more time passes without another encounter with an Oumuamua-like object, the stranger it seems.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @mal, @SIMP simp

    But the more time passes without another encounter with an Oumuamua-like object, the stranger it seems.

    I agree. “Just a rock” hypothesis doesn’t fly because rocks don’t accelerate. Invisible gas producing ice is on more solid ground but even that is very suspect because of red color and extreme reflectivity. If red color is tholins and they all managed to recondense due to evaporative cooling somehow, where did they come from in the first place? You need hydrocarbons to make tholins, so that kinda cancels pure ice hypothesis, and invisible gas becomes highly unlikely (we can usually detect large quantities of volatile carbon chemicals). And if tholin coat formed elsewhere and got there later (coated the ice chunk in a collision for example), where are the rest of collision fragments? Why is Oumuamua alone?

  90. The great bifurcation is already gaining pace Canada and the U.S don’t accept Chinese vaccines and sputnik-V as vaccines. You can enter but you still have bullshit quarantine restrictions. Basically a big keep put sign for non-partisans of the west.

    I have yet to be vaccinated, but I will only accept the Sputnik-V or Chinese vaccines. If it ends up permanently barring me from entering the U.S or Canada, then fuck it.

    like I said before I can’t imagine the vaccine non-recognition continuing.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @anyone with a brain

    I certainly don't intend to visit any country that doesn't recognize Sputnik and insists on quarantining me on arrival or even doing the <3 day before PCR test. I'd rather patronize countries that aren't ruled by Russophobe ideologues.

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @anyone with a brain

    Not as awesome as "antivaxx so absolutely no border crossing and increasingly agorist" types.

    (Might not be permanent if WEF influence in policy-making wanes or Atlanticist bloc countries accept WHO-approved vaccines, which include definitely Chinese and maybe Russian ones)

  91. @songbird
    Putting aside the issue of his death, what was the matter with John McAfee?

    Haven't been following him very closely, but I watched a friendly interview in the past year. I found him very jarring. Like, I would be physically uncomfortable to be in the same room with him. His tonality and mannerisms, his unpredictability.

    I was thinking he must have schizophrenia, and/or be on some weird combination of drugs. But I'd be curious if anyone had a better diagnosis.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @SIMP simp, @Sean, @Bert

    McAfee was really into experimenting with various drugs and writing about it.

    • Thanks: songbird
  92. AP says:
    @AltanBakshi

    Не надо быть проницательным, чтобы в черепе Тимура увидеть типичные монголоидные черты: яркая бракифалня, очевидно, уплощенное лицо, значительная его ширина и высота. Все это как нельзя лучше связывается с письменными документами, свидетельствующими о происхождении Тимура из рода барласов.

    http://www.rusanthropology.ru/index.php/informatsiya/novosti/629-gerasimov-m-m-portret-tamerlana
     

    .
    .

    The Roman who visited the camp of Attilla the Hun commented on their yellowish skin.
     
    Not yellowish, but swarthy or bronze like, actually I have mentioned this fact about Attila previously here on unz.com. Anyone who has travelled in Asian countryside, can confirm that East Asian skin is extremely adaptable, when under the sun, like farmers, it can get as dark as North Indian skin, but when not in sun, like monks, it can be as fair as cream. In my opinion if one just considers pragmatically which type of skin is the best, then it's Northeast Asian, for it's naturally fair, but tans well under the sun, unlike skin of pure Nordic stock, which just burns or gets pink, but Nordic people have other good qualities. These things are not a zero sum game in a world where everything is under a constant flux. Btw isn't the skin of Mediterraneans somewhat similar in this matter? Though its rare to see Greeks having as fair skin as modern day young Koreans and Japanese...

    That's why Khagan Attila who lived his whole life outdoors as warrior, had a swarthy skin, and that's why sophisticated Khagan Khubilai, who lived among Chinese literati, in beautiful gardens and palaces, had a fair skin.


    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/58/2b/a7582b96a35841008e1936b97842402c.jpg
    Here do you see? Older Tibetan nomads are extremely swarthy, for they have lived their whole lives under the sun and icy wind, their skin is often like old bronze, leathery and dark, but monks who have spent their lives inside temples and monasteries, have fair complexion.

    https://treasuryoflives.org/uploads/person/13652/Bakula-%20Pethub-1940.jpg

    Here's a Tibetan high lama

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Vs8E_4pppuc/TUQpCV99ZMI/AAAAAAAAALg/JOjIsmsibOU/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/HH_Bogdo_Gegen_Rinpoche.jpg
    Here an example of Mongol nobleman.

    Replies: @AP, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    In my opinion if one just considers pragmatically which type of skin is the best, then it’s Northeast Asian, for it’s naturally fair, but tans well under the sun, unlike skin of pure Nordic stock, which just burns or gets pink,

    Are you confusing Celtic with Nordic? Swedes and Germans tend to tan easily. It’s the Irish and Scots who are pale and burn.

    • Disagree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @AP

    https://theskinsisterscom.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/b5c0283c-88ba-4862-b1b5-1e2e6eb7ceeb.jpg

    This reminded me that it is now “margarita dermatitis” season. (technical name: phytophotodermatitis). Basically, citrus has touched the skin, and sun exposure + the citrus have interacted to create horrific skin blistering. Face, and hands, are the common sites. This heals with dark spots that will require bleaching cream from the dermatologist. Please be forewarned. No vaccine needed for this one.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @AltanBakshi
    @AP

    To achieve such tanning in Nordic skin, you need to work for many years, all the time in beach, vacations and solarium, or whatever it's called in English. I think I know, I visit Sweden almost every year, and have quite many Swedish acquaintances.

    Phenotypically Swedes are quite different from Germans...not always but often.

    Replies: @AP, @songbird

    , @Svevlad
    @AP

    The northoids can all tan except it takes a little while for the skin to start doing it's job. Might be due to the fact their exposure isn't gradual but they go from cloudy unsunny places where they spend a lot of time inside to hot sunny places suddenly

    Brits tan weirdly. They go red, then a weird almost purplish color, and then suddenly they're really dark

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  93. @Yellowface Anon
    @216

    There is basically no unified "America", or that has ever existed. At this point we're talking US statistics like the USSR (and I'm not talking about the inaccuracy)

    Audacious Epigone will fare a lot better if he can disaggregate poll data based on this map:
    https://miro.medium.com/max/1838/1*cWrZcapekHfj5aI0HeaWkg.jpeg

    Replies: @216, @SIMP simp, @RadicalCenter

    The biggest differences are urban/rural, not between regions.

  94. @AltanBakshi
    Karlin or some people here claimed that Cuba is a good example of white supremacism in socialist multicultural context, but it's only natural that white hispanics are overrepresented among Cuba's leadership, because more than 2/3 of Cuba's population are of European origin, and unlike in Mexico or some other Latin American countries, Cuban whites are genetically mostly of European origin. Also I believe that state of Cuba does not practice "positive discrimination" in such scale as American state, therefore it's not surprising if elites are mostly Europeans in a European majority state, especially when Europeans are cognitively...

    Therefore Cuba is not good example of white supremacism in a country where whites are a minority, like they will be in the near future USA.

    Finds the same thing even for Kyrgyzstan: Richer and more powerful tribes had greater representation in 1970s Soviet elite.

     

    Such logic does not take into consideration historical context.
    Before the revolution Kyrgysia was under a Russian colonization and local elites were Russians and other Europeans, therefore it's only natural that Soviet Korenizatsiya policies led to elevation of native elites, which previously had no political power.

    Btw who said that revolution eats her children or something? Very good saying...

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Coconuts

    I did say Wokeism is literally White Supremacy… here is a another anecdote to that effect.

    Rather than straightforward White Supremacy that interesting VS image looks like evidence of…

    …Whiteshift:

    It’s a question whether white elites that seem to want to implement the Whiteshift so badly can really be White Supremacists, in the current meaning of the term.

  95. @AnonfromTN
    @Californian Candidate

    There are Russians of all stripes. Having worked with in vitro produced mRNA for 40 years, I would never trust Pfizer or Moderna, as I know that everything they say about their "vaccines " is a lie. But their fairy tales are OK for the ignorant.

    I just got Sputnik V for myself and my daughter based on a simple consideration: whether you believe in COVID or not, this vaccine is the least likely to harm you

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Californian Candidate, @Dmitry, @Dacian Julien Soros

    I’m not very knowledgeable on the subject. Would you care to elaborate on that? What part of Pfizer and Moderna is a lie compared to Sputnik V? Their effectiveness rates? Length of protection? Or maybe they are not disclosing long term side effects?

    I know Sputnik is adenovirus based which is considered better than the mRNA based vaccines due better protection of the DNA inside the adenovirus’s tougher protein coat. But aside from mRNA being fragile, I’m not aware of what other issues may exist.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
    @Californian Candidate

    There are a few potentially serious issues with mRNA vaccines these are still not proved to be really a problem for people. The issues are that segments of viral (and by extension, vaccine) RNA have the chance to become integrated into a host's DNA via certain biochemical cellular pathways. This is called reverse-transcription and in the case of SARS-CoV-2 it happens because of endogenous LINE-1 retrotransposons (present in the human genome) producing an enzime that converts viral RNA into DNA. See here:

    https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2105968118

    where it is shown to happen in human cells in vitro. Moreover, the integrated alien sequences are not silent, in human cells in vitro they are actively producing back viral RNA from the alien DNA-integrated sequences. This is believed to be the cause of positive PCR test results in humans that have had COVID but that presently have no trace of viral load, but strictly speaking this reverse-transcription has only been shown to happen in vitro, so far.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Californian Candidate

    There never were successful mRNA-based vaccines for a reason: normal mRNA is extremely unstable, while more stable chemically modified mRNA cannot be translated into protein because ribosomes won't accept it.

    Another issue is lack of credibility(see comment 128)

    Sputnik is the same adenovirus used for effective Ebola vaccine: they just replaced sequence encoding Ebola protein with that of COVID spike protein. If COVID exists, that should give good immunity. If it doesn't, that's harmless

  96. @Malenfant
    @Morton's toes


    Oumuamua: I read Loeb’s paper on oumuamua where he starts off with the Sherlock Holmes thing about eliminating the impossible and what’s left has to be true.

    I do not like that epigram.

    ...

     

    Loeb, whose book on Oumuamua was poorly written and poorly argued, is the worst sort of armchair-philosopher -- the sort who doesn't have a child's grasp of logic, but read Sartre and Camus as a teen and thinks that he knows it all. (This is literally his background in philosophy, as he explains in his book; as a young man, he considered studying philosophy with an eye towards becoming an existentialist philosopher!)

    ...But this doesn't mean that he's wrong about Oumuamua. It only means that, like an incompetent and scatter-brained trial lawyer, he doesn't always make the best case for it.

    The default assumption or null hypothesis that Oumuamua is a completely natural object has a lot of problems. Loeb's hypothesis -- that it's a cosmic buoy or trip-wire -- fits the facts. But there are an awful lot of "unknown unknowns," and it's far too late for us to catch up with Oumuamua, so it'll probably remain mysterious for a very long time.

    But the more time passes without another encounter with an Oumuamua-like object, the stranger it seems.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @mal, @SIMP simp

    There’s also 2I/Borisov

    • Replies: @Malenfant
    @SIMP simp

    Which is, however, a fairly mundane and typical object, under the circumstances. It looks like a fast-moving, rogue Oort cloud object from another star, and exhibits none of the highly unusual features which have come to characterize Oumuamua. This deepens, rather than diminishes, the mystery.

  97. @anyone with a brain
    The great bifurcation is already gaining pace Canada and the U.S don't accept Chinese vaccines and sputnik-V as vaccines. You can enter but you still have bullshit quarantine restrictions. Basically a big keep put sign for non-partisans of the west.

    I have yet to be vaccinated, but I will only accept the Sputnik-V or Chinese vaccines. If it ends up permanently barring me from entering the U.S or Canada, then fuck it.

    like I said before I can't imagine the vaccine non-recognition continuing.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Yellowface Anon

    I certainly don’t intend to visit any country that doesn’t recognize Sputnik and insists on quarantining me on arrival or even doing the <3 day before PCR test. I’d rather patronize countries that aren’t ruled by Russophobe ideologues.

    • Agree: AnonfromTN, Blinky Bill
  98. @SIMP simp
    @Malenfant

    There's also 2I/Borisov

    Replies: @Malenfant

    Which is, however, a fairly mundane and typical object, under the circumstances. It looks like a fast-moving, rogue Oort cloud object from another star, and exhibits none of the highly unusual features which have come to characterize Oumuamua. This deepens, rather than diminishes, the mystery.

    • Agree: mal
  99. @AltanBakshi
    Karlin or some people here claimed that Cuba is a good example of white supremacism in socialist multicultural context, but it's only natural that white hispanics are overrepresented among Cuba's leadership, because more than 2/3 of Cuba's population are of European origin, and unlike in Mexico or some other Latin American countries, Cuban whites are genetically mostly of European origin. Also I believe that state of Cuba does not practice "positive discrimination" in such scale as American state, therefore it's not surprising if elites are mostly Europeans in a European majority state, especially when Europeans are cognitively...

    Therefore Cuba is not good example of white supremacism in a country where whites are a minority, like they will be in the near future USA.

    Finds the same thing even for Kyrgyzstan: Richer and more powerful tribes had greater representation in 1970s Soviet elite.

     

    Such logic does not take into consideration historical context.
    Before the revolution Kyrgysia was under a Russian colonization and local elites were Russians and other Europeans, therefore it's only natural that Soviet Korenizatsiya policies led to elevation of native elites, which previously had no political power.

    Btw who said that revolution eats her children or something? Very good saying...

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Coconuts

    Sorry about that Altan, the message 94 I just posted was supposed to be a comment on one of the points in AK’s intro to the thread.

    To add to this:

    Also I believe that state of Cuba does not practice “positive discrimination” in such scale as American state, therefore it’s not surprising if elites are mostly Europeans in a European majority state, especially when Europeans are cognitively…

    I suppose in Cuba the way to resolve racial issues is still understood in terms of classical Marxist thinking as being tied up with both proletarian nationalism and economics (the implementation of a socialist system etc.). Whereas in the US, CRT seems to prioritise making an alliance between middle class and wealthy liberal whites and ethno-nationalist blacks, on the basis of trying to funnel money and resources away from whites who might vote for the Republicans to these blacks and other minority groups.

    I am not in the US but this is what it basically looks like from the outside.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Coconuts

    Karlin's white supremacism explanation does not hold water, and is easily eliminated by Occam's razor. Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them, if that's white supremacism, then Nazis were secret philosemites who just wanted to ensure the creation of Israel and generations of goodwill for Jews.

    I have myself theorised that western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it's fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups, in such way whole world could be united under the western elites, but still society would be divided enough so that the plebs could never overcome their differences and do neo-bolshevik revolution and overthrow the elites. There's a fine balancing act going.

    Maybe CIA and other such orgs researched this stuff in 1950-1980, how to direct and channel revolutionary forces in society for the benefit of the rulers? Didn't FBI and friends plant agents into every kind of political organisation imaginable in those years? How sad that I will probably never see those reports.

    Replies: @AaronB, @Beckow, @AltanBakshi, @Coconuts, @Coconuts

  100. @Beckow
    @reiner Tor


    ...They didn’t enjoy life 1945-57, but after 1957 their children were accepted to university
     
    One's joy shouldn't depend on whose slogans control the public space, but I see you point. Let me be devil's advocate since this narrative seldom gets challenged.

    The university education under socialism (communism if you prefer) depended almost wholly on your exams - very rigorous tests. One exception were so-called political studies: law, humanities, history. In all other areas unless your family belonged to a very tiny officially persecuted group it was all based on your ability. This interestingly enough also applied to drama, music or languages - they were probably more open to talent than is currently the case in the West.

    The small group of disfavoured people was usually high members of the previous elite and people openly supporting foreign countries. But even among those, studying medicine or math was ok, e.g. Havel's brother was a Professor of Mathematics in Prague completely disproving the Western myth that Havel wouldn't be allowed to study, thus his lack of education. He wanted to be a "movie director", commies said "f...k you, your uncle worked for the Nazis".

    What this belly-aching about restrictions overlooks is that up till 1950 members of lower classes were kept from university education - many turned out to be very smart. It also overlooks that cushy, political positions are always and everywhere kept for the ruling class and their supporters. As so often, when criticising commies, people accuse them of mostly every ruling elite does. Critisize them for their inept economics, but this political stuff often looks just silly.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Hibernian

    I don’t know about Czechoslovakia (and it wasn’t exactly the same in all communist countries), but in Hungary 1949-57 large sections of society were barred from higher education. After 1957 basically everyone was accepted who got the scores on the entrance exam. Already 1945-48 life was getting progressively worse for these people and they saw the writing on the wall, but not all of them had a chance to leave.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @reiner Tor


    ...in Hungary 1949-57 large sections of society were barred from higher education.
     
    What are large sections? Who was barred? 5%? 25%? Numbers matter. Access to education was not universal before that either.

    In Czechoslovakia in the 50's former aristocrats, industrialists, Nazi collaborators, were restricted from humanities and law. Plus a few really - but really - religious people, maybe 5% of the population. Compared to that, pre 1940's about 75% of the population was effectively barred from higher education of any kind because it was expensive and you had to start preparing in elementary school. (Please, don't tell us about charity scholarships, I am really not into lottery systems.)

    After 1955-60, access for everyone was almost 100% based on entrance exams. (Yeah, there was nepotism - if you can find a society without nepotism, let us know.)

    Replies: @216, @reiner Tor

  101. @AltanBakshi
    @Boomthorkell

    Well Marco Polo said that Mongols have a fair complexion. Which again shows how idiotic is to use American colonial concepts like "white people," outside of former Anglo colonies. Europeans are Europeans, many average Greeks and Bulgarians are swarthier than Northeastern Asians.

    The race of Tamerlan is well known, for Soviets opened his tomb in 1941 and found his skeleton. There's even facial reconstruction, made by famous Soviet archeologist and forensic scientist Mikhail Gerasimov.

    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5625/1118136.33/0_8bbe7_370ccb8a_XL.jpg

    Purely Altaic and Mongolic face.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur, @AP, @BlackFlag

    Yes, he also said the Japanese were fair but that was a secondhand account. On the contrary, he doesn’t talk about the Cathays as being fair-skinned and clearly differentiates them from the Mongols on a number of features.

    How come the Europeans, including Marco Polo, referred to the Mongols as “Tatars?” Weren’t the Tatars more Indo-European looking? The Mongols integrated many of them into their armies but you would think Marco Polo would distinguish them, especially since he presumably learned Mongolian.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @BlackFlag

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Mongol_Empire_c.1207.png

    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis. Even though Karlin's island is an island of reason, I tend to forget that there are so many strange racialists and other weirdos here. Racialism is not always bad, but we wuz Mongols and Steppe Aryans is just disgusting larping, a signal of rootlessness and lack of authenticity.

    Many Tatars were later garrisoned to lands of Golden Horde, and after few centuries local Türks appropriated the name. There are literally dozens of such cases in history, original Bulgars were not Slavic, actually they were Volga Tatar, ha, ha too funny. Jalairs were originally Mongol tribe, but later rulers of Iraq, Franks were Germanic tribe, now they are French, and so on, and so on....

    "On the contrary, he doesn’t talk about the Cathays as being fair-skinned"

    I don't bother looking up, but I remember otherwise, that Polo called people of Cathay fair, but I'm not completely sure.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Bashibuzuk, @BlackFlag

  102. @Boomthorkell
    A question for anyone interested in IQ and genetics who can answer:

    1. In attempting to explain to a friend that intelligence is hereditary, said friend countered that reading is associated with possibly higher IQ than inherited intelligence, which friend claims has wider variability. Counterpoint: smart people read to their smart kids. Dumb people don't read to their dumb or possibly mediocre children (Matilda is a fictional character for a reason.) The question is: does anyone know if Intelligence studies have accounted for this? I'm sure they have, I just need to know what it is.

    2. Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

    3. I must have missed this, why did the US government hate McAfee?

    Unrelated to questions, that's great news for Czechia. Here's hoping we can replicate those policies here. I'm intrigued how they support home family life vs child centers in practice. Though, I know Karlin said before the breeders have a more powerful effect than state support. Both surely just be beneficial.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

    My short answer is that it doesn’t matter, if you are beta and soy IRL its irrelevant if your ancestor is some mighty conqueror.

    Long answer is that yes but complicated. Mongoloids have the following y-haplogroups:
    O – Han/Korean/Mongolian/Manchu/SE Asians
    C – Mongols/Manchus/Altaics/small amts in Slavs and other Euros
    D – Tibetic and Ainu (yes quite exotic)
    Q – Siberian/Am Indians
    N – North Eurasian (60% Finns/Northeast Euros, 10% Northern Hans/Mongols/Koreans)

    View post on imgur.com

    Genghis and the Manchu Emperors were C; Tang dynasty founders (who may have partly looked Uralic) were N; Han dynasty founder was O. (https://famousdna.wiki.fc2.com)

    What’s throwing a wrench in all this is ​blond hair supposed originated in Siberia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_North_Eurasian):

    View post on imgur.com

    …and the discovery of Dragon Man, just last week in northern Manchuria. Which may be the closest relative to Sapiens, even more than Neanderthals, discovered in Europe.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Man_(archaic_human)

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Long answer is that yes
     
    You are not making any sense. Just belonging to some haplogroup, doesnt make anyone European or Asian.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  103. “HG Wells”, who apparently could pass for a tanned Englishman, was the first crypto-Indian. In 1940, when senile, he made a slip-up, in a footnote, while referencing an obscure phrase from Marx:

    “I took it from the translation of Professor Hirendranath Mukherjee in an Indian students’ journal, which happened to be at my desk.”

    In this light, it is obvious that “War of the Worlds” was a deliberate red herring, intended to distract the English from the real invasion – the Indian one.

  104. @AnonfromTN
    @Californian Candidate

    There are Russians of all stripes. Having worked with in vitro produced mRNA for 40 years, I would never trust Pfizer or Moderna, as I know that everything they say about their "vaccines " is a lie. But their fairy tales are OK for the ignorant.

    I just got Sputnik V for myself and my daughter based on a simple consideration: whether you believe in COVID or not, this vaccine is the least likely to harm you

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Californian Candidate, @Dmitry, @Dacian Julien Soros

    My girlfriend was gullible enough to be injected with Pfizer vaccine last week, and the only problem was a painful arm, and she hasn’t turned into a reptilian overlord yet – that’s not to say there are no signs of this in her personality, but none which didn’t pre-exist the vaccination. Short-term safety of all the major vaccines is very high, and has been tested with many millions of people. ​Long-safety of none of the vaccines is known, regardless of which country that produced them (which is not a reliable way to judge long-term safety of medications).

    From the selfish point of view, as I am not in high-risk category for coronavirus, I would of course prefer not to be injected with any of vaccines until a few more years into the future. Although from the same selfish point of view, it is desirable that enough of the low-risk category population will still disregard this calculation, and therefore attain to herd-immunity levels during the pandemic. In those countries where a sufficient proportion of the population will be vaccinated to attain herd-immunity, then the unvaccinated people will be still “free-riders” in terms of the anti-pandemic benefits of a country’s successful vaccine rollout.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Dmitry


    long-term safety
     
    Long term issues don’t just appear out of the blue. What happens is that the medicine in question causes short term (but not yet serious and thus unnoticed) complications which, over time, progress and become more serious. If you have a sufficient follow-up of a large enough sample, then you can tell the percentage of the barely noticeable issues which could later become more serious.

    That said, if someone had the choice of getting neither the vaccine nor the virus, I would advise to get neither. But on this planet this is not the choice. The choice is to get vaccinated or get infected. Well, the third option is staying home and not having a life forever. Impossible for many reasons, people who are not pensioners have to work, children have to go to school, etc.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Dmitry

    Short term safety of Pfizer and Moderna is way lower than officially claimed. Quite a few cases of local paralysis, heart complications, and even deaths were reported despite suppression. FDA recently added heart issues to the official list.

    Importantly FDA approved Pfizer and Moderna for emergency use after Congress indemnified both companies

    Replies: @Jazman, @Dmitry

  105. @reiner Tor
    @Beckow

    I don’t know about Czechoslovakia (and it wasn’t exactly the same in all communist countries), but in Hungary 1949-57 large sections of society were barred from higher education. After 1957 basically everyone was accepted who got the scores on the entrance exam. Already 1945-48 life was getting progressively worse for these people and they saw the writing on the wall, but not all of them had a chance to leave.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …in Hungary 1949-57 large sections of society were barred from higher education.

    What are large sections? Who was barred? 5%? 25%? Numbers matter. Access to education was not universal before that either.

    In Czechoslovakia in the 50’s former aristocrats, industrialists, Nazi collaborators, were restricted from humanities and law. Plus a few really – but really – religious people, maybe 5% of the population. Compared to that, pre 1940’s about 75% of the population was effectively barred from higher education of any kind because it was expensive and you had to start preparing in elementary school. (Please, don’t tell us about charity scholarships, I am really not into lottery systems.)

    After 1955-60, access for everyone was almost 100% based on entrance exams. (Yeah, there was nepotism – if you can find a society without nepotism, let us know.)

    • Replies: @216
    @Beckow

    US faculty was 25% conservative in the 1960s, its not even 5% now.

    And US leftists will spin untold epicycles denying that this is discrimination.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @reiner Tor
    @Beckow


    about 75% of the population was effectively barred from higher education of any kind because it was expensive and you had to start preparing in elementary school
     
    Luckily most of the poor people didn’t have the talent either. By the way it did happen in the 1980s that someone’s parents pushed him to learn a trade instead of going to a “gimnázium” (similar to British grammar schools preparing for university and good for little else), and based on what my parents told me even more frequently in the 1960s, so the “100%” is just a fantasy either. Social mobility was much higher in the period 1945-56, but that’s just because all times of turmoil make it easier to rise to the top. The study actually shows that then the previous elite rose back to the top. Which proves that they indeed were more talented.

    What are large sections? Who was barred? 5%? 25%? Numbers matter. Access to education was not universal before that either.
     
    I would say at least half the people who had the talent were barred from university education. It was abolished in the wake of the 1956 revolution, when it turned out that the students from the toiling classes were unreliable as well, and a large portion of them left the country anyway, freeing up university capacity. And in Hungary I’m pretty sure it wasn’t just law and the humanities.

    Replies: @iffen, @Beckow

  106. @AP
    @AltanBakshi

    Opening Tamerlane’s tomb caused the invasion of the USSR and loss of 25 million lives.

    Replies: @Agathoklis

    1941 is a bizarre time to be opening up Tamerlane’s tomb. Didn’t the Soviets have something better to do?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Agathoklis

    Well, archeologists apparently didn't..

  107. @Beckow
    @reiner Tor


    ...in Hungary 1949-57 large sections of society were barred from higher education.
     
    What are large sections? Who was barred? 5%? 25%? Numbers matter. Access to education was not universal before that either.

    In Czechoslovakia in the 50's former aristocrats, industrialists, Nazi collaborators, were restricted from humanities and law. Plus a few really - but really - religious people, maybe 5% of the population. Compared to that, pre 1940's about 75% of the population was effectively barred from higher education of any kind because it was expensive and you had to start preparing in elementary school. (Please, don't tell us about charity scholarships, I am really not into lottery systems.)

    After 1955-60, access for everyone was almost 100% based on entrance exams. (Yeah, there was nepotism - if you can find a society without nepotism, let us know.)

    Replies: @216, @reiner Tor

    US faculty was 25% conservative in the 1960s, its not even 5% now.

    And US leftists will spin untold epicycles denying that this is discrimination.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @216

    US leftists have successfully marched through all institutions gradually taking them over, incl. media, Hollywood, and most corporations. A lot was based on credential worship that US rightists inisted on to pretend that US is a "meritocracy".

    I actually don't think US leftists are all that leftist, they care very little for actual working people. They are really just liberals. The unspoken truth about America is that it is - and has been - run by different kinds of liberals for a very long time. The identity liberals, the labor-government liberals (gravy train liberals) and the most peculiar brand of liberals: libertarians who control the opposition. So you understand, libertarians are just liberals who are also assho.les. A pretty liberal setup.

  108. @Anatoly Karlin
    @216

    That's correct.

    * Until recently, they did have relatively high TFRs for their class of country (barring weird outliers like Israel).
    * It was also a more eugenic TFR than in most any developed country: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/what-the-nordics-get-right/
    * The idea that it's all immigrants is a rightoid myth: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2018/11/fertility-of-immigrant-groups-in-denmark-by-generation/

    US TFR is plummeting, probably this has to do with the two pronged assault of rapid secularization + ubiquitous Wokeism making more and more zoomers and millennials literally gay.

    I don't recall ever actively identifying as a conservative or a right-winger, so I can't say I care for ideological labels from rightoids any more than ODS on RationalWiki calling me a white supremacist.

    Replies: @216, @Passer by, @Dmitry, @Truth

    There isn’t evidence, that society’s open or closed attitude to LGBT people, will have an influence on fertility rates. It seems to me, more that politicians that want to appeal to the boomer dislike of LGBT people, have connected these two topics without any empirical evidence.

    Israel cargo cults to all the European/Western culture of LGBT rights. And secular people there love the latest Western fashions and trends. Gay culture is such a cargo cult in Israel, that it seems to look like this in walking videos of today:

    And with the secular people, there is still replacement fertility rate common for its Middle Eastern geographical region and similar to its Muslim neighbours like Lebanon, Jordan and Iran – as an example of an independence from the surface affiliations or popular symbols in a culture, which can be Islamist in Iran, or LGBT in Israel, with the same end result between the countries.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dmitry

    When you have 15-20% of reproductive age people saying they are non-heterosexual at that point it will almost certainly start having an effect on fertility rates.

    Replies: @216, @Svevlad, @Dmitry

  109. @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    In my opinion if one just considers pragmatically which type of skin is the best, then it’s Northeast Asian, for it’s naturally fair, but tans well under the sun, unlike skin of pure Nordic stock, which just burns or gets pink,
     
    Are you confusing Celtic with Nordic? Swedes and Germans tend to tan easily. It's the Irish and Scots who are pale and burn.

    https://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/16417329/1080full-moa-mattsson.jpg

    https://www.sportfrauen.net/storage/app/uploads/public/5a5/e4c/0e8/thumb_651_2917x1859_241_285_customcrop_1300_10000.jpg

    Replies: @SafeNow, @AltanBakshi, @Svevlad

    This reminded me that it is now “margarita dermatitis” season. (technical name: phytophotodermatitis). Basically, citrus has touched the skin, and sun exposure + the citrus have interacted to create horrific skin blistering. Face, and hands, are the common sites. This heals with dark spots that will require bleaching cream from the dermatologist. Please be forewarned. No vaccine needed for this one.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @SafeNow

    Like meth addicts that you can spot a mile away the "phytophotoists" are now becoming noticeable on street corners too. Local sports bars have been prohibited from serving lime margaritas. What next, key lime pie? :-)

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/df/f8/2edff8f47d20976d932004a48299d515.jpg

  110. @songbird
    Putting aside the issue of his death, what was the matter with John McAfee?

    Haven't been following him very closely, but I watched a friendly interview in the past year. I found him very jarring. Like, I would be physically uncomfortable to be in the same room with him. His tonality and mannerisms, his unpredictability.

    I was thinking he must have schizophrenia, and/or be on some weird combination of drugs. But I'd be curious if anyone had a better diagnosis.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @SIMP simp, @Sean, @Bert

    He happened to have a sky high IQ. After having a really good idea and becoming a centi millionaire, he sold his shares in the eponymous business and invested in property, and so of course in 2008 lost 95 % of it. McAfee simply refused to file US tax returns between 2016 and 2018. I expect his kynurenic acid level became higher as it does in aging men (explaining their worse outcomes in COVID-19; bats live with coronaviruses by selective suppression of immune response). Immune over activation is behind much psychotic behavior. His father was an alcoholic that committed suicide, and McAfee was informed of Spain’s decision to extradite him the morning of the day he died. What’s to understand?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Sean

    Likely a suicide, as he didn't know anything, and it's a more powerful signal to put an old guy in modern anarcho-tyranny prison than fake a suicide.

    Epstein, though, is certainly open to interpretation.

  111. @Dmitry
    @Anatoly Karlin

    There isn't evidence, that society's open or closed attitude to LGBT people, will have an influence on fertility rates. It seems to me, more that politicians that want to appeal to the boomer dislike of LGBT people, have connected these two topics without any empirical evidence.

    -

    Israel cargo cults to all the European/Western culture of LGBT rights. And secular people there love the latest Western fashions and trends. Gay culture is such a cargo cult in Israel, that it seems to look like this in walking videos of today:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqIW6cvfEek

    And with the secular people, there is still replacement fertility rate common for its Middle Eastern geographical region and similar to its Muslim neighbours like Lebanon, Jordan and Iran - as an example of an independence from the surface affiliations or popular symbols in a culture, which can be Islamist in Iran, or LGBT in Israel, with the same end result between the countries.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    When you have 15-20% of reproductive age people saying they are non-heterosexual at that point it will almost certainly start having an effect on fertility rates.

    • Replies: @216
    @Anatoly Karlin

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1387795535415943172

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Pericles

    , @Svevlad
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Yeah but it's mostly a meme, wait a little and you'll see that the numbers drop as one gets older, very few go with the alphabet mafia cringe all the way.

    On the other hand, it's better if most of those roaches doesn't reproduce. They'll infest their children with their bullshit. The pozz is de facto hereditary at this point.

    Replies: @Mitleser

    , @Dmitry
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Your sexual attraction to women or men is not determined by fashion trends, as I'm sure you noticed from your own life. These are quite inbuilt desires. The rate of the non-heterosexual desiring people will be constant; what changes is the attitude of the rest of the society to the people with minority desires.

    In Western Europe, there is a current fashion to use the sexual minorities for virtue signalling about the society's tolerance, as the previous fashion had been to use ethnic minorities for this purpose - however, they may become more visible, the proportion of the people with non-heterosexual sexuality will be the same as always. Even in Islamist societies like Iran, it is a situation where they punish the visibility of sexual minorities, and it won't likely effect their actual number.

    In the 20th century culture, it was common for homosexual men to marry women, and having children in order to reduce visibility of their minority status: e.g. Sviatoslav Richter, Vladimir Horowitz, John Maynard Keynes.

    But the behaviour of a small minority of homosexual men to reduce their visibility, will not effect fertility rates. And according to stable population theory, the population replacement is determined by women's fertility.

    Replies: @Wency, @Boomthorkell

  112. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dmitry

    When you have 15-20% of reproductive age people saying they are non-heterosexual at that point it will almost certainly start having an effect on fertility rates.

    Replies: @216, @Svevlad, @Dmitry

    • LOL: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @Agathoklis
    @216

    Despite once having been a standard Mediterranean lothario myself, I sympathise with the men in these surveys. Making a pass at a young woman these days comes with great risks.

    , @Pericles
    @216

    University is actually a great place to make friends and contacts, or at least it used to be. But perhaps that's declined as women have taken over.

    (The 11% volcels could instead be looking forward to a conventional arranged marriage after attaining their credential. After all, getting sexually roughed up in some apartment of questionable hygiene by a fat tattooed person of indeterminate sexual persuasion might not be all that attractive by comparison.)

  113. @Agathoklis
    @AP

    1941 is a bizarre time to be opening up Tamerlane's tomb. Didn't the Soviets have something better to do?

    Replies: @AP

    Well, archeologists apparently didn’t..

  114. @Beckow
    @reiner Tor


    ...They didn’t enjoy life 1945-57, but after 1957 their children were accepted to university
     
    One's joy shouldn't depend on whose slogans control the public space, but I see you point. Let me be devil's advocate since this narrative seldom gets challenged.

    The university education under socialism (communism if you prefer) depended almost wholly on your exams - very rigorous tests. One exception were so-called political studies: law, humanities, history. In all other areas unless your family belonged to a very tiny officially persecuted group it was all based on your ability. This interestingly enough also applied to drama, music or languages - they were probably more open to talent than is currently the case in the West.

    The small group of disfavoured people was usually high members of the previous elite and people openly supporting foreign countries. But even among those, studying medicine or math was ok, e.g. Havel's brother was a Professor of Mathematics in Prague completely disproving the Western myth that Havel wouldn't be allowed to study, thus his lack of education. He wanted to be a "movie director", commies said "f...k you, your uncle worked for the Nazis".

    What this belly-aching about restrictions overlooks is that up till 1950 members of lower classes were kept from university education - many turned out to be very smart. It also overlooks that cushy, political positions are always and everywhere kept for the ruling class and their supporters. As so often, when criticising commies, people accuse them of mostly every ruling elite does. Critisize them for their inept economics, but this political stuff often looks just silly.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Hibernian

    As so often, when criticising commies, people accuse them of mostly every ruling elite does.

    Not all ruling elites commit mass murder.

    Cue those who say they all do.

    The United States of 1877-1916 was not the same as the one that dropped the Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and, yes, I am aware of the Indian Wars.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Hibernian

    Ruling elites do whatever is required to stay in power. They murder if they think they have to.

    Western history is as much a history of mass murder as are the histories of their rivals. It is tempting to cherry-pick periods and places, and by doing it you can convince yourself of almost anything, but I suspect your know very little about what you say.

  115. @SafeNow
    @AP

    https://theskinsisterscom.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/b5c0283c-88ba-4862-b1b5-1e2e6eb7ceeb.jpg

    This reminded me that it is now “margarita dermatitis” season. (technical name: phytophotodermatitis). Basically, citrus has touched the skin, and sun exposure + the citrus have interacted to create horrific skin blistering. Face, and hands, are the common sites. This heals with dark spots that will require bleaching cream from the dermatologist. Please be forewarned. No vaccine needed for this one.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Like meth addicts that you can spot a mile away the “phytophotoists” are now becoming noticeable on street corners too. Local sports bars have been prohibited from serving lime margaritas. What next, key lime pie? 🙂

  116. @anyone with a brain
    The great bifurcation is already gaining pace Canada and the U.S don't accept Chinese vaccines and sputnik-V as vaccines. You can enter but you still have bullshit quarantine restrictions. Basically a big keep put sign for non-partisans of the west.

    I have yet to be vaccinated, but I will only accept the Sputnik-V or Chinese vaccines. If it ends up permanently barring me from entering the U.S or Canada, then fuck it.

    like I said before I can't imagine the vaccine non-recognition continuing.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Yellowface Anon

    Not as awesome as “antivaxx so absolutely no border crossing and increasingly agorist” types.

    (Might not be permanent if WEF influence in policy-making wanes or Atlanticist bloc countries accept WHO-approved vaccines, which include definitely Chinese and maybe Russian ones)

  117. @Anatoly Karlin
    This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes - within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

    Replies: @Jim Christian, @Mikhail, @Blinky Bill, @Dissident, @Grahamsno(G64)

    Might end up being the best whataboutism of 2021:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9728423/PETER-HITCHENS-wont-popular-Navys-Black-Sea-antics-stupid.html

    So, say the Russian navy (even more clapped-out and shrunken than ours) managed to find a ship in good enough condition to get to the South Atlantic. Say it then loaded aboard some Moscow journalists. And say the Russians decided they were actively backing Argentinian claims to the ‘Malvinas’.

    Some issue with Peter Hitchens’ comparative reference regarding the Russian and Brit navies:

    https://thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com/2021/06/05/look-out-the-left-the-captain-said-the-capture-of-roman-protasevich/comment-page-2/#comment-61146

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Mikhail

    https://www.las2orillas.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Putin-y-Diego-638x514.jpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY8JX6OdTwhgUKk09QnhZEkrXy7EG7DOqCMA&usqp.jpg

    http://www.marambio.aq/images/mapa-bicontinental-plataforma.jpg

    https://www.geopolitica.ru/sites/default/files/argentina_1.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @songbird

    , @reiner Tor
    @Mikhail

    The Russian navy is probably better overall than the Royal Navy, for example the British carriers don’t have enough escort ships, making them useless in and of themselves. Though once we are willing to overlook that deficiency, the British could be granted to possess a better blue water surface fleet than the Russians. Then we’d have to decide what the better green water fleet of the Russians was worth, not to mention their likely superior submarine fleet, both nuclear and diesel-electric.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

  118. @216
    @Beckow

    US faculty was 25% conservative in the 1960s, its not even 5% now.

    And US leftists will spin untold epicycles denying that this is discrimination.

    Replies: @Beckow

    US leftists have successfully marched through all institutions gradually taking them over, incl. media, Hollywood, and most corporations. A lot was based on credential worship that US rightists inisted on to pretend that US is a “meritocracy”.

    I actually don’t think US leftists are all that leftist, they care very little for actual working people. They are really just liberals. The unspoken truth about America is that it is – and has been – run by different kinds of liberals for a very long time. The identity liberals, the labor-government liberals (gravy train liberals) and the most peculiar brand of liberals: libertarians who control the opposition. So you understand, libertarians are just liberals who are also assho.les. A pretty liberal setup.

  119. https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2021/06/19/have-the-great-reset-technocrats-really-thought-this-through-evil-between-depopulation-neuralink/

    He’s still stuck on a Manichean or Gnostic view of elitism and doesn’t realize it’s an inherent tendency of post-liberalism (as Dugin sees it).

    Even the depopulation part is cyclical – Martin Armstrong points out there’s a ~300 year cycle in demographic crisis, which went from the Mongol conquests and Black Death, to the wars and strife of the 17th century, to the depopulation project the WEF has at hand. Some form of demographic shake-up might be inevitable and maybe desireable for the long-term survival of humanity, fitting right into the orthodox view that Evil is simply another tool of God’s justice, and the karmic view of decadence. But it needs not to be directed by the elites…

  120. @216
    @Anatoly Karlin

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1387795535415943172

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Pericles

    Despite once having been a standard Mediterranean lothario myself, I sympathise with the men in these surveys. Making a pass at a young woman these days comes with great risks.

  121. @BlackFlag
    @AltanBakshi

    Yes, he also said the Japanese were fair but that was a secondhand account. On the contrary, he doesn't talk about the Cathays as being fair-skinned and clearly differentiates them from the Mongols on a number of features.

    How come the Europeans, including Marco Polo, referred to the Mongols as "Tatars?" Weren't the Tatars more Indo-European looking? The Mongols integrated many of them into their armies but you would think Marco Polo would distinguish them, especially since he presumably learned Mongolian.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi


    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis. Even though Karlin’s island is an island of reason, I tend to forget that there are so many strange racialists and other weirdos here. Racialism is not always bad, but we wuz Mongols and Steppe Aryans is just disgusting larping, a signal of rootlessness and lack of authenticity.

    Many Tatars were later garrisoned to lands of Golden Horde, and after few centuries local Türks appropriated the name. There are literally dozens of such cases in history, original Bulgars were not Slavic, actually they were Volga Tatar, ha, ha too funny. Jalairs were originally Mongol tribe, but later rulers of Iraq, Franks were Germanic tribe, now they are French, and so on, and so on….

    “On the contrary, he doesn’t talk about the Cathays as being fair-skinned”

    I don’t bother looking up, but I remember otherwise, that Polo called people of Cathay fair, but I’m not completely sure.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AltanBakshi


    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis.
     
    Some of them still have that look.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Mr. Hack, @AltanBakshi

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AltanBakshi

    I know the source of the confusion because Tatar is used in so many contexts...

    1. Tartare sauce - totally irrelevant
    2. Refers to Mongols of the Golden Horde as you said, etymology Greek Tartarus (from hell)
    3. Refers to specific groups like Crimean Tatar as you say

    Lastly, before the time of Russian conquest, Europeans used the term Grande Tartarie for the vast region in North/Inner Asia, between Eastern Europe, Persia and China

    https://imgur.com/a/ng4EURw

    Later on, Brits still used Tatars to refer to Qing Manchu rulers.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    Borjigin.


    According to Rashid-al-Din Hamadani, many of the older Mongolian clans were founded by members of the Borjigin — Barlas, Urud, Manghud, Taichiut, Chonos, Kiyat, etc. The first Khan of the Mongol was Bodonchar Munkhag's great-great-grandson Khaidu Khan. Khaidu's grandsons Khabul Khan and Ambaghai Khan (founder of the Taichiut clan) succeeded him. Thereafter, Khabul's sons, Hotula Khan and Yesugei, and Khabul's grandson Temujin (Genghis Khan, son of Yesugei) ruled the Khamag Mongol. By the unification of the Mongols in 1206, virtually all of Temujin's uncles and first cousins had died, and from then on only the descendants of Yesugei Baghatur, his brother Daritai, and nephew Onggur formed the Borjigid.
     

    According to Paul Pelliot and Louis Hambis, Rashid al-Din Hamadani once explained that "borčïqïn" designated in the Turkic languages a man with dark-blue eyes (اشهل‎, ašhal), and did so again without mentioning the said language, adding that Yesugei's children and the majority of their own children had had such eyes per coincidence, also recalling that the genie which had impregnated Alan Gua after her husband's death had had dark-blue eyes ("ašhal čašm").[7] Abu al-Ghazi Bahadur later paraphrased Hamadani by relating that Yesugei's eyes were dark-blue ("شهلا šahlā"), that the Mongols ("Moɣol") called such eyes "borǰïɣïn" (بورجغن[14]), that his sons and most of their descendants had dark-blue eyes ("ašhal"), and that one recognized thus in Yesugei's lineage the characteristic sign of the genie which had visited Alan Gua and had "borǰïɣïn" eyes.
     


    Also:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenisei_Kyrgyz_Khaganate

    During the reign period of Kaiyuan of [emperor] Xuanzong, Ge Jiayun, composed A Record of the Western Regions, in which he said "the people of the Jiankun state all have red hair and green eyes. The ones with dark eyes were descendants of [the Chinese general] Li Ling [who was captured by the Xiongnu]... of Tiele tribe and called themselves Hegu. The change to Xiajiasi is probably because barbarian sounds are sometimes quick and sometimes slow so that the transcriptions of the words are not the same. When it is sometimes pronounced Xiajiasi, it is just that the word is quick. when I enquired from the translation clerk, he said that Xiajiasi had the meaning of 'yellow head and red face' and that this was what the Uighurs called them. Now the envoys say that they themselves have this name. I don't know which is right.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenisei_Kyrgyz

    The Tashtyk culture was first surveyed by the Russian archaeologist Sergei Teploukhov.[3] Teploukhov suggested that it had been initially Indo-European dominated, only to become overcome by the Yenisei Kirghiz around the 3rd century AD.[3] The Yenisei Kirghiz are often associated with the Tashtyk culture.[4]

    Tashtyk settlements and hill-forts have been unearthed throughout the Yenisei region, particularly the Sayan canyon area. Their most imposing monuments were immense barrows-crypt structures; these have yielded large quantities of clay and metal vessels and ornaments. In addition, numerous petrographic carvings have been found. Some of the graves contained leather models of human bodies with their heads wrapped in tissue and brightly painted. Inside the models there were small leather bags probably symbolising the stomach and containing burned human bones. Scaled-down replicas of swords, arrows and quivers were placed nearby. The animal motifs of the Tashtyk belonged to the Scytho-Altaic style

    [...]

    During his excavations of the Oglahty cemetery south of Minusinsk, Leonid Kyzlasov discovered a number of mummies with richly decorated plaster funerary masks showing Western Eurasian features, though this would not rule out some East Asian admixture, as revealed by ancient DNA (see below). There were also intact fur hats, silk clothes, and footwear (now in the Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg).
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashtyk_culture

    The relatively favorable climatic conditions of the Minusinsk Basin and the protection provided by the surrounding mountains have attracted human populations to this region since Paleolithic times. During the last several thousand years, in particular, the Minusinsk Basin has been continuously inhabited by a succession of populations whose cultures provide the single most spectacular archaeological continuum in all of North Asia. Starting with the late Neolithic (and still controversial) Tazmin culture (approximately 2000 to 2500 B.C. ) through the subsequent Afanas'evo, Okunevo, Andronovo, and Karasuk cultures, the Minusinsk Basin seems to have been inhabited by semisedentary agriculturalists and cattle breeders with an increasingly strong steppe-nomadic orientation. This development culminated in the late Bronze-Age Tagar culture (700 to 200 B.C. ), connected with the Scythian epoch of Central Eurasian history. According to paleoanthropological data, the Tagar people and most of their local predecessors seem to have had a predominantly Europoid complex of physical features. There then followed the Tashtyk culture (200 B.C. to A.D. 200), which corresponds to the Hunnic period in Central Eurasia and represents a major intrusion of a new Mongoloid population into the Minusinsk Basin.

     

    https://www.everyculture.com/Russia-Eurasia-China/Khakas-History-and-Cultural-Relations.html

    Also the White Huns were called White for a reason...

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Sixteen_Sword_Bearers_of_Kizil_Caves_%28detail%29.jpg/204px-Sixteen_Sword_Bearers_of_Kizil_Caves_%28detail%29.jpg

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur

    , @BlackFlag
    @AltanBakshi

    The Tartar back then being very different from the Tartars today would explain it.


    I don’t bother looking up, but I remember otherwise, that Polo called people of Cathay fair, but I’m not completely sure.
     
    I guess you are right.

    They are inclined to be fat, and their noses are small. Their hair is black, and they have scarcely any beard, or only a few scattered hairs on the chin. The women of the superior class are in a manner free from superfluous hairs; their skins are fair, and they are well formed.
     
    In one story, he talks about how the Cathaians in a city rose up in a plot to kill all foreigners, which included the Tartars, Saracens, and Christians. Since all these foreigners had beards while the Cathaians naturally did not, the plan was to kill all bearded men. But when you look at Mongols nowadays, they don't have much heavier beards than Chinese. They look like North Chinese but stockier. Maybe at the time they were more Central Asian looking and during the past centuries they've absorbed more Chinese blood.
    http://asiasociety.org/files/130711_naadamfestival8.jpg
    https://il6.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/5068643/thumb/1.jpg?i10c=img.resize(height:160)

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  122. @Hibernian
    @Beckow


    As so often, when criticising commies, people accuse them of mostly every ruling elite does.
     
    Not all ruling elites commit mass murder.

    Cue those who say they all do.

    The United States of 1877-1916 was not the same as the one that dropped the Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and, yes, I am aware of the Indian Wars.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Ruling elites do whatever is required to stay in power. They murder if they think they have to.

    Western history is as much a history of mass murder as are the histories of their rivals. It is tempting to cherry-pick periods and places, and by doing it you can convince yourself of almost anything, but I suspect your know very little about what you say.

  123. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Boomthorkell


    Is it actually true Ghenghis Khan was a Caucasoid?

     

    My short answer is that it doesn't matter, if you are beta and soy IRL its irrelevant if your ancestor is some mighty conqueror.

    Long answer is that yes but complicated. Mongoloids have the following y-haplogroups:
    O - Han/Korean/Mongolian/Manchu/SE Asians
    C - Mongols/Manchus/Altaics/small amts in Slavs and other Euros
    D - Tibetic and Ainu (yes quite exotic)
    Q - Siberian/Am Indians
    N - North Eurasian (60% Finns/Northeast Euros, 10% Northern Hans/Mongols/Koreans)

    https://imgur.com/a/ZAzBQaL

    Genghis and the Manchu Emperors were C; Tang dynasty founders (who may have partly looked Uralic) were N; Han dynasty founder was O. (https://famousdna.wiki.fc2.com)

    What's throwing a wrench in all this is ​blond hair supposed originated in Siberia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_North_Eurasian):
    https://imgur.com/a/2IFuQRb

    …and the discovery of Dragon Man, just last week in northern Manchuria. Which may be the closest relative to Sapiens, even more than Neanderthals, discovered in Europe.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Man_(archaic_human)

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Long answer is that yes

    You are not making any sense. Just belonging to some haplogroup, doesnt make anyone European or Asian.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AltanBakshi

    Sorry that's a typo. I meant


    Long answer is no, Genghis is not Caucasoid.

     

    I hope my other statements were elucidating. The original Coon classification of 4 races, Caucasoid/Mongoloid/Australoid/Negroid, were entirely phenotypically based.

    Genetic analysis has largely confirmed this, with notable exceptions:

    - Ainus are not Caucasoid as originally postulated, but rather a distinct type closer related to other E. Asians
    - Finns despite phenotype have considerable E. Asian genetics

    What's more complex is how these races formed, for example, y-haplogroup O (E.Asian) and N (North Eurasian) both branched off the original NO

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_NO

  124. @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    In my opinion if one just considers pragmatically which type of skin is the best, then it’s Northeast Asian, for it’s naturally fair, but tans well under the sun, unlike skin of pure Nordic stock, which just burns or gets pink,
     
    Are you confusing Celtic with Nordic? Swedes and Germans tend to tan easily. It's the Irish and Scots who are pale and burn.

    https://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/16417329/1080full-moa-mattsson.jpg

    https://www.sportfrauen.net/storage/app/uploads/public/5a5/e4c/0e8/thumb_651_2917x1859_241_285_customcrop_1300_10000.jpg

    Replies: @SafeNow, @AltanBakshi, @Svevlad

    To achieve such tanning in Nordic skin, you need to work for many years, all the time in beach, vacations and solarium, or whatever it’s called in English. I think I know, I visit Sweden almost every year, and have quite many Swedish acquaintances.

    Phenotypically Swedes are quite different from Germans…not always but often.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    To achieve such tanning in Nordic skin, you need to work for many years, all the time in beach, vacations and solarium, or whatever it’s called in English. I think I know, I visit Sweden almost every year, and have quite many Swedish acquaintances.
     
    No, Swedes just tan naturally like that. Our Swedish poster Thorfinnson was writing about it once IIRC. Yes, if you stick a Swede who had been pale during the winter under a Thai sun on a December holiday he will burn. But a Swede in Sweden will be naturally tan in the summer if he spends time outside.

    This phenomenon is well-known:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/jul/03/thisweekssciencequestions4

    Why do fair-skinned Brits burn while Swedes (for example) tan?

    "Your Celtic phenotypes - Brits with pale skin, freckles, red hair - will burn and never tan," says Mark Birch-Machin, reader in molecular dermatology at the University of Newcastle and a researcher for Cancer Research UK.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @reiner Tor, @AltanBakshi

    , @songbird
    @AltanBakshi

    Germanics (perhaps Northern Slavs too?) who start out pale, tend to tan quite easily, from my perspective. They can often become quite brown and quite resistant to the sun. In my experience, you have to explain to them why you are sitting in the shade, and they still have trouble grasping it.

    I, who am ethnic Irish, without sunblock, need TOTAL shade, not spotty shade, even in Northern Germany. I cannot develop resistance to the sun. My skin is so pale that it is almost literally be blinding when at the beach.

    The sun worship typical in the West has always been a great mystery to me. In particular, I think paler women are more beautiful, and think tanning makes women less beautiful. There is a line from an Irish song: her neck, it was just like a swan's.

    At times, I've suspected sun-worship might be an incipient form of black worship. I find it curious how it does not seem to exist outside the West. But perhaps, it just seems alien and wrong to me because it is Germanic.

    Yet, it doesn't seem to be a historical thing.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  125. @Dmitry
    @AnonfromTN

    My girlfriend was gullible enough to be injected with Pfizer vaccine last week, and the only problem was a painful arm, and she hasn't turned into a reptilian overlord yet - that's not to say there are no signs of this in her personality, but none which didn't pre-exist the vaccination. Short-term safety of all the major vaccines is very high, and has been tested with many millions of people. ​Long-safety of none of the vaccines is known, regardless of which country that produced them (which is not a reliable way to judge long-term safety of medications).

    From the selfish point of view, as I am not in high-risk category for coronavirus, I would of course prefer not to be injected with any of vaccines until a few more years into the future. Although from the same selfish point of view, it is desirable that enough of the low-risk category population will still disregard this calculation, and therefore attain to herd-immunity levels during the pandemic. In those countries where a sufficient proportion of the population will be vaccinated to attain herd-immunity, then the unvaccinated people will be still "free-riders" in terms of the anti-pandemic benefits of a country's successful vaccine rollout.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @AnonfromTN

    long-term safety

    Long term issues don’t just appear out of the blue. What happens is that the medicine in question causes short term (but not yet serious and thus unnoticed) complications which, over time, progress and become more serious. If you have a sufficient follow-up of a large enough sample, then you can tell the percentage of the barely noticeable issues which could later become more serious.

    That said, if someone had the choice of getting neither the vaccine nor the virus, I would advise to get neither. But on this planet this is not the choice. The choice is to get vaccinated or get infected. Well, the third option is staying home and not having a life forever. Impossible for many reasons, people who are not pensioners have to work, children have to go to school, etc.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @reiner Tor

    Epidemics rise and fall exponentially. If the herd immunity to a virus is achieved within society, then your chance to be infected will rapidly become extremely low, regardless of your personal vaccination status.

    In countries where there is an effective vaccination rollout, with a sufficiently high proportion of the population being vaccinated, then the unvaccinated people will be "free rider" beneficiaries, and they will have an almost equally low risk of infection as the vaccinated people. It would be a waste of resources to vaccinate everyone, when a sufficient level of immunity is attained.

    Although it's possible that herd immunity will not be attained in some countries. It's possible that problems like anti-vaxx sentiment, might later on prevent a high enough vaccination rate, to stop a reservoir for the virus continuing to exist.

    I think about in Russia a situation where in the last decade, HIV became endemic at a low level (around 1% of the population). This was because of the lack of intervention to reduce infection rate among needle-sharing drug addicts (e.g. lack of providing adequate new needle supply and authorities' inability following of anti-epidemic recommendations). Hopefully coronavirus will not become such an endemic illness, that resides in areas with insufficiently high vaccination rates, that will become a "reservoir" for future re-infections.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  126. @AnonfromTN
    @Californian Candidate

    There are Russians of all stripes. Having worked with in vitro produced mRNA for 40 years, I would never trust Pfizer or Moderna, as I know that everything they say about their "vaccines " is a lie. But their fairy tales are OK for the ignorant.

    I just got Sputnik V for myself and my daughter based on a simple consideration: whether you believe in COVID or not, this vaccine is the least likely to harm you

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Californian Candidate, @Dmitry, @Dacian Julien Soros

    I used to believe adenovirus vaccines are superior to mRNA vaccines because the former were tested. But the truth is, there is only one adenovirus vaccine approved in the world.

    On a closer reading, informed by the scientism of 2020, there are multiple red flags:
    – The vaccine was developed in part in Oxford, where they can’t randomize
    – It was tested in Sierra Leone, where they can’t treat diarrhea
    – It was approved in July 2020, after fear of covid rushed everything.
    – It is still not approved in the US, where Donald Trump made it possible for various drugs to be approved with weakest efficacy-surrogate data. (Read the label for casimersen.)

    I would cut down on optimism.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Sorry to point this out, but FDA approval is more like a negative factor. FDA approved Vioxx not too long ago. It approved Pfizer and Moderna "vaccines " after Congress indemnified both companies. Sapienti sat

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

  127. @Beckow
    @reiner Tor


    ...in Hungary 1949-57 large sections of society were barred from higher education.
     
    What are large sections? Who was barred? 5%? 25%? Numbers matter. Access to education was not universal before that either.

    In Czechoslovakia in the 50's former aristocrats, industrialists, Nazi collaborators, were restricted from humanities and law. Plus a few really - but really - religious people, maybe 5% of the population. Compared to that, pre 1940's about 75% of the population was effectively barred from higher education of any kind because it was expensive and you had to start preparing in elementary school. (Please, don't tell us about charity scholarships, I am really not into lottery systems.)

    After 1955-60, access for everyone was almost 100% based on entrance exams. (Yeah, there was nepotism - if you can find a society without nepotism, let us know.)

    Replies: @216, @reiner Tor

    about 75% of the population was effectively barred from higher education of any kind because it was expensive and you had to start preparing in elementary school

    Luckily most of the poor people didn’t have the talent either. By the way it did happen in the 1980s that someone’s parents pushed him to learn a trade instead of going to a “gimnázium” (similar to British grammar schools preparing for university and good for little else), and based on what my parents told me even more frequently in the 1960s, so the “100%” is just a fantasy either. Social mobility was much higher in the period 1945-56, but that’s just because all times of turmoil make it easier to rise to the top. The study actually shows that then the previous elite rose back to the top. Which proves that they indeed were more talented.

    What are large sections? Who was barred? 5%? 25%? Numbers matter. Access to education was not universal before that either.

    I would say at least half the people who had the talent were barred from university education. It was abolished in the wake of the 1956 revolution, when it turned out that the students from the toiling classes were unreliable as well, and a large portion of them left the country anyway, freeing up university capacity. And in Hungary I’m pretty sure it wasn’t just law and the humanities.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @reiner Tor

    the previous elite rose back to the top. Which proves that they indeed were more talented.

    The people at the top are more talented and being at the top proves it.

    Seriously, there is are differences between being "talented" and have the talents to claw your way to the top.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    , @Beckow
    @reiner Tor

    To summarize your point:

    "Yes, pre-communism 75% of people were barred from higher education. But it is ok, they were stupid. As you say, most had no talent. Let's only focus on the upper-class twits who really wanted to be art historians and the damn commies kept them from living their dreams. After 1956 they ended up driving taxis in NY and endlessly told gullible Americans about this horrible injustice."

    Am I getting it right? Should we try some nuance? Czechoslovakia was different, fewer members of the defined enemy groups - most people were some sort of socialist by 1945. We also had a large skilled working class with enough talent for higher education.

    The Academy on 2009 did a long-term study of high achievers from engineering to music, from medicine to science, and about 87% of the high achievers were fully or partially from groups that were before communism barred from higher education. The overall numbers were shockingly one-sided. Maybe we got rid of the previous elites more successfully, it was partially an ethnic issue.

    I have literally never heard of a single person barred from studying medicine, science or engineering. Law or humanities were a different story as is the case everywhere. There is an easy test, when BoJo hires Julian Assange as his spokesman,the West will have something. Until then, it is empty uninformed talk.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  128. @Yellowface Anon
    @AnonfromTN

    This is probably why I'll either get Sinovac or stay unvaccinated, depending on how things go in HK.

    Have you done posts detailing how mRNA technologies should really be done and used, and why its current use in COVID vaccines is improper (if not harmful)? We need some genuine expert opinions to critically examine or counter the officially-sanctioned ones.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    I know for sure that the way Pfizer and Moderna describe it in their official info things cannot work. The corollary is that what they say about “vaccine ” composition is also not true.

    Thus, I have no data for scientific evaluation. This leaves only “let the buyer beware ” as a guiding principle

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
  129. @Californian Candidate
    @AnonfromTN

    I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject. Would you care to elaborate on that? What part of Pfizer and Moderna is a lie compared to Sputnik V? Their effectiveness rates? Length of protection? Or maybe they are not disclosing long term side effects?

    I know Sputnik is adenovirus based which is considered better than the mRNA based vaccines due better protection of the DNA inside the adenovirus’s tougher protein coat. But aside from mRNA being fragile, I'm not aware of what other issues may exist.

    Replies: @Levtraro, @AnonfromTN

    There are a few potentially serious issues with mRNA vaccines these are still not proved to be really a problem for people. The issues are that segments of viral (and by extension, vaccine) RNA have the chance to become integrated into a host’s DNA via certain biochemical cellular pathways. This is called reverse-transcription and in the case of SARS-CoV-2 it happens because of endogenous LINE-1 retrotransposons (present in the human genome) producing an enzime that converts viral RNA into DNA. See here:

    https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2105968118

    where it is shown to happen in human cells in vitro. Moreover, the integrated alien sequences are not silent, in human cells in vitro they are actively producing back viral RNA from the alien DNA-integrated sequences. This is believed to be the cause of positive PCR test results in humans that have had COVID but that presently have no trace of viral load, but strictly speaking this reverse-transcription has only been shown to happen in vitro, so far.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Levtraro


    The issues are that segments of viral (and by extension, vaccine) RNA have the chance to become integrated into a host’s DNA via certain biochemical cellular pathways.
     
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/science/ancient-viruses-dna-genome.html

    Getting viral DNA in your genome isn't necessarily a bad thing. But whatever DNA left in your genome is largely evolutionarily adaptive and consequently largely beneficial. The implication here is that the "accidental" integration of viral RNA into the vaccinated's genome, can be harmless, unexpected, or outright harmful.

    Replies: @Levtraro

  130. @Californian Candidate
    @AnonfromTN

    I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject. Would you care to elaborate on that? What part of Pfizer and Moderna is a lie compared to Sputnik V? Their effectiveness rates? Length of protection? Or maybe they are not disclosing long term side effects?

    I know Sputnik is adenovirus based which is considered better than the mRNA based vaccines due better protection of the DNA inside the adenovirus’s tougher protein coat. But aside from mRNA being fragile, I'm not aware of what other issues may exist.

    Replies: @Levtraro, @AnonfromTN

    There never were successful mRNA-based vaccines for a reason: normal mRNA is extremely unstable, while more stable chemically modified mRNA cannot be translated into protein because ribosomes won’t accept it.

    Another issue is lack of credibility(see comment 128)

    Sputnik is the same adenovirus used for effective Ebola vaccine: they just replaced sequence encoding Ebola protein with that of COVID spike protein. If COVID exists, that should give good immunity. If it doesn’t, that’s harmless

    • Thanks: Yellowface Anon
  131. @Dmitry
    @AnonfromTN

    My girlfriend was gullible enough to be injected with Pfizer vaccine last week, and the only problem was a painful arm, and she hasn't turned into a reptilian overlord yet - that's not to say there are no signs of this in her personality, but none which didn't pre-exist the vaccination. Short-term safety of all the major vaccines is very high, and has been tested with many millions of people. ​Long-safety of none of the vaccines is known, regardless of which country that produced them (which is not a reliable way to judge long-term safety of medications).

    From the selfish point of view, as I am not in high-risk category for coronavirus, I would of course prefer not to be injected with any of vaccines until a few more years into the future. Although from the same selfish point of view, it is desirable that enough of the low-risk category population will still disregard this calculation, and therefore attain to herd-immunity levels during the pandemic. In those countries where a sufficient proportion of the population will be vaccinated to attain herd-immunity, then the unvaccinated people will be still "free-riders" in terms of the anti-pandemic benefits of a country's successful vaccine rollout.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @AnonfromTN

    Short term safety of Pfizer and Moderna is way lower than officially claimed. Quite a few cases of local paralysis, heart complications, and even deaths were reported despite suppression. FDA recently added heart issues to the official list.

    Importantly FDA approved Pfizer and Moderna for emergency use after Congress indemnified both companies

    • Replies: @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    There is interesting case in Canada with professor Byram Bridle (associate professor of viral immunology, University of Guelph) . His life changed drastically for exposing Pfizer and Moderna
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1WLkbd6RZY
    There is lot of information similar to what you said

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Dmitry
    @AnonfromTN

    Either way, the short-term safety of the vaccines is extremely high, especially when compared to many of the activities we do in daily life (like drinking alcohol, let alone smoking cigarettes - although at least those compensate us with enjoyment). Hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated and only a small minorities had any problems.

    We know these very unlikely to cause you a problem in the short-term.

    However, about the long-term effects, there isn't information yet, so if you are not in high risk category it is sensible to delay or avoid being vaccinated.

    By the way, I know a postdoctoral scientist that works in the pharmaceutical industry, that is avoiding the vaccines on themselves. I'm not saying they are a representative sample - I had to laugh when I recognize such fellow overanxious and overprecautionary souls.

  132. @Dacian Julien Soros
    @AnonfromTN

    I used to believe adenovirus vaccines are superior to mRNA vaccines because the former were tested. But the truth is, there is only one adenovirus vaccine approved in the world.

    On a closer reading, informed by the scientism of 2020, there are multiple red flags:
    - The vaccine was developed in part in Oxford, where they can't randomize
    - It was tested in Sierra Leone, where they can't treat diarrhea
    - It was approved in July 2020, after fear of covid rushed everything.
    - It is still not approved in the US, where Donald Trump made it possible for various drugs to be approved with weakest efficacy-surrogate data. (Read the label for casimersen.)

    I would cut down on optimism.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Sorry to point this out, but FDA approval is more like a negative factor. FDA approved Vioxx not too long ago. It approved Pfizer and Moderna “vaccines ” after Congress indemnified both companies. Sapienti sat

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    @AnonfromTN

    Please read up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben . Vioxx was one of a few failures. FDA's performance is stellar, compared with any other national authority.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  133. @Mikhail
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Might end up being the best whataboutism of 2021:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9728423/PETER-HITCHENS-wont-popular-Navys-Black-Sea-antics-stupid.html


    So, say the Russian navy (even more clapped-out and shrunken than ours) managed to find a ship in good enough condition to get to the South Atlantic. Say it then loaded aboard some Moscow journalists. And say the Russians decided they were actively backing Argentinian claims to the 'Malvinas'.
     
    Some issue with Peter Hitchens' comparative reference regarding the Russian and Brit navies:

    https://thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com/2021/06/05/look-out-the-left-the-captain-said-the-capture-of-roman-protasevich/comment-page-2/#comment-61146

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @reiner Tor


    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Blinky Bill

    Why would Wales stay in England?

    England would get to keep much of the Royal Navy, and Argentine Naval strength has only atrophied since the Falklands War, having no money to maintain it.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    , @songbird
    @Blinky Bill

    Don't know the merits of the competing claims, but I think South Georgia should belong to whoever can effectively claim Shackleton, just on the basis of his deeds. BTW, where is the home of his early childhood?

  134. @Levtraro
    @Californian Candidate

    There are a few potentially serious issues with mRNA vaccines these are still not proved to be really a problem for people. The issues are that segments of viral (and by extension, vaccine) RNA have the chance to become integrated into a host's DNA via certain biochemical cellular pathways. This is called reverse-transcription and in the case of SARS-CoV-2 it happens because of endogenous LINE-1 retrotransposons (present in the human genome) producing an enzime that converts viral RNA into DNA. See here:

    https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2105968118

    where it is shown to happen in human cells in vitro. Moreover, the integrated alien sequences are not silent, in human cells in vitro they are actively producing back viral RNA from the alien DNA-integrated sequences. This is believed to be the cause of positive PCR test results in humans that have had COVID but that presently have no trace of viral load, but strictly speaking this reverse-transcription has only been shown to happen in vitro, so far.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    The issues are that segments of viral (and by extension, vaccine) RNA have the chance to become integrated into a host’s DNA via certain biochemical cellular pathways.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/science/ancient-viruses-dna-genome.html

    Getting viral DNA in your genome isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But whatever DNA left in your genome is largely evolutionarily adaptive and consequently largely beneficial. The implication here is that the “accidental” integration of viral RNA into the vaccinated’s genome, can be harmless, unexpected, or outright harmful.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
    @Yellowface Anon

    Your comment is slightly relevant in a general kind of way but the specific point is that mRNA vaccines deliver mRNA that produces the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, which by itself is detrimental to human physiology, see here:

    https://doi.org/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902

    so the potential retrotranscription of this RNA into human DNA can only have harmful consequences, if it happens in humans.

    mRNA vaccines produce too little spike protein and/or they produce it too locally (in muscle tissue in the arm, and it stays there, hopefully ...) to harm people but the potentiality of retrotranscription is a fairly serious risk, I think.

  135. @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    In my opinion if one just considers pragmatically which type of skin is the best, then it’s Northeast Asian, for it’s naturally fair, but tans well under the sun, unlike skin of pure Nordic stock, which just burns or gets pink,
     
    Are you confusing Celtic with Nordic? Swedes and Germans tend to tan easily. It's the Irish and Scots who are pale and burn.

    https://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/16417329/1080full-moa-mattsson.jpg

    https://www.sportfrauen.net/storage/app/uploads/public/5a5/e4c/0e8/thumb_651_2917x1859_241_285_customcrop_1300_10000.jpg

    Replies: @SafeNow, @AltanBakshi, @Svevlad

    The northoids can all tan except it takes a little while for the skin to start doing it’s job. Might be due to the fact their exposure isn’t gradual but they go from cloudy unsunny places where they spend a lot of time inside to hot sunny places suddenly

    Brits tan weirdly. They go red, then a weird almost purplish color, and then suddenly they’re really dark

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Svevlad

    It's genetics. We have six alleles (I. E., 12 genes total) encoding skin colour. If you have all 12 dark versions, you are black like piggies. If you have all 12 lite versions, you never tan, as you don't have enzymes to make melanin. You go red, get blisters, lose outer skin, then go white again

    Replies: @iffen

  136. @Blinky Bill
    @Mikhail

    https://www.las2orillas.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Putin-y-Diego-638x514.jpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY8JX6OdTwhgUKk09QnhZEkrXy7EG7DOqCMA&usqp.jpg

    http://www.marambio.aq/images/mapa-bicontinental-plataforma.jpg

    https://www.geopolitica.ru/sites/default/files/argentina_1.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @songbird

    Why would Wales stay in England?

    England would get to keep much of the Royal Navy, and Argentine Naval strength has only atrophied since the Falklands War, having no money to maintain it.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Yellowface Anon

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Wales_Army

    Has been crushed!

    Fe godwn ni eto.

    Let's hope they can be resurrected!


    https://youtu.be/E1R48hHU0Ys

    https://i.redd.it/5rd7e4utisl01.png

  137. @Svevlad
    @AP

    The northoids can all tan except it takes a little while for the skin to start doing it's job. Might be due to the fact their exposure isn't gradual but they go from cloudy unsunny places where they spend a lot of time inside to hot sunny places suddenly

    Brits tan weirdly. They go red, then a weird almost purplish color, and then suddenly they're really dark

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    It’s genetics. We have six alleles (I. E., 12 genes total) encoding skin colour. If you have all 12 dark versions, you are black like piggies. If you have all 12 lite versions, you never tan, as you don’t have enzymes to make melanin. You go red, get blisters, lose outer skin, then go white again

    • Replies: @iffen
    @AnonfromTN

    I burn easily and quickly. Back when I was stupid stupider I could very gradually tan to a shade darker than many American blacks.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  138. @Mikhail
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Might end up being the best whataboutism of 2021:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9728423/PETER-HITCHENS-wont-popular-Navys-Black-Sea-antics-stupid.html


    So, say the Russian navy (even more clapped-out and shrunken than ours) managed to find a ship in good enough condition to get to the South Atlantic. Say it then loaded aboard some Moscow journalists. And say the Russians decided they were actively backing Argentinian claims to the 'Malvinas'.
     
    Some issue with Peter Hitchens' comparative reference regarding the Russian and Brit navies:

    https://thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com/2021/06/05/look-out-the-left-the-captain-said-the-capture-of-roman-protasevich/comment-page-2/#comment-61146

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @reiner Tor

    The Russian navy is probably better overall than the Royal Navy, for example the British carriers don’t have enough escort ships, making them useless in and of themselves. Though once we are willing to overlook that deficiency, the British could be granted to possess a better blue water surface fleet than the Russians. Then we’d have to decide what the better green water fleet of the Russians was worth, not to mention their likely superior submarine fleet, both nuclear and diesel-electric.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    @reiner Tor

    RN unlike the Russian Navy is not designed to fight serious wars as a stand alone Navy but as a somewhat autonomous extension of the US Navy.

    Therefore if you look at a US Carrier fleet (the gold standard) as a benchmark for how a large carrier should be deployed you will find gaps in terms of lack of adequate number of Nuclear Submarine escorts and competent Air defence destroyers as the Type 45 has serious serviceability issues due to its unique and largely unsuccessful and failure prone WR21 marine turbines.

    But none of this matters as long as it is fighting under the NATO flag alongside the USN.

    Also because of NATO a much larger fraction of the RN can be deployed as an expeditionary force whereas a large portion of the Russian Navy is required to be deployed near home to defend its vast coastlines.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  139. @Yellowface Anon
    @Blinky Bill

    Why would Wales stay in England?

    England would get to keep much of the Royal Navy, and Argentine Naval strength has only atrophied since the Falklands War, having no money to maintain it.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Wales_Army

    Has been crushed!

    Fe godwn ni eto.

    Let’s hope they can be resurrected!

    [MORE]

  140. @Yellowface Anon
    @Levtraro


    The issues are that segments of viral (and by extension, vaccine) RNA have the chance to become integrated into a host’s DNA via certain biochemical cellular pathways.
     
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/science/ancient-viruses-dna-genome.html

    Getting viral DNA in your genome isn't necessarily a bad thing. But whatever DNA left in your genome is largely evolutionarily adaptive and consequently largely beneficial. The implication here is that the "accidental" integration of viral RNA into the vaccinated's genome, can be harmless, unexpected, or outright harmful.

    Replies: @Levtraro

    Your comment is slightly relevant in a general kind of way but the specific point is that mRNA vaccines deliver mRNA that produces the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, which by itself is detrimental to human physiology, see here:

    https://doi.org/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902

    so the potential retrotranscription of this RNA into human DNA can only have harmful consequences, if it happens in humans.

    mRNA vaccines produce too little spike protein and/or they produce it too locally (in muscle tissue in the arm, and it stays there, hopefully …) to harm people but the potentiality of retrotranscription is a fairly serious risk, I think.

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon
  141. • Replies: @Shortsword
    @Blinky Bill


    He sees signs that China has made a strategic decision to replace the corn imported from the US with Russian wheat.
     
    Replace corn with wheat? How would they do this? Put tariffs on American corn?

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

  142. @AnonfromTN
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Sorry to point this out, but FDA approval is more like a negative factor. FDA approved Vioxx not too long ago. It approved Pfizer and Moderna "vaccines " after Congress indemnified both companies. Sapienti sat

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

    Please read up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben . Vioxx was one of a few failures. FDA’s performance is stellar, compared with any other national authority.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    If you mean other American national authorities, FDA isn't that bad. If you mean its equivalents in other countries, FDA performance is far from stellar

  143. @AltanBakshi
    @BlackFlag

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Mongol_Empire_c.1207.png

    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis. Even though Karlin's island is an island of reason, I tend to forget that there are so many strange racialists and other weirdos here. Racialism is not always bad, but we wuz Mongols and Steppe Aryans is just disgusting larping, a signal of rootlessness and lack of authenticity.

    Many Tatars were later garrisoned to lands of Golden Horde, and after few centuries local Türks appropriated the name. There are literally dozens of such cases in history, original Bulgars were not Slavic, actually they were Volga Tatar, ha, ha too funny. Jalairs were originally Mongol tribe, but later rulers of Iraq, Franks were Germanic tribe, now they are French, and so on, and so on....

    "On the contrary, he doesn’t talk about the Cathays as being fair-skinned"

    I don't bother looking up, but I remember otherwise, that Polo called people of Cathay fair, but I'm not completely sure.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Bashibuzuk, @BlackFlag

    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis.

    Some of them still have that look.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Mikhail

    Randomly selected Tartar, a Russian Nobody.


    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1XSCHKl0es4A9pdUBlPBYTE6G_-Q8id_JYQ&usqp.jpg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2.png

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail

    This fellow had "that look",and considered himself to be a Ukrainian. The "Svidomite" brand for sure:

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/ukraine/600a9e264705d1.43106415-180.jpg

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/ukraine/600a9e266e5cf7.37409703-180.jpg

    Tatar, Belorusian, Polish? Ahatanhel Krymsky considered himself a Ukrainian as quoted on this new commemorative coin. He chose this appellation "consciously" making him technically a "Svidomite Ukrainian". :-)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    , @AltanBakshi
    @Mikhail

    I forgot to answer why Mongols were often called Tatars in western sources, well Tatars were among the first to join to Chingghis Khaans empire, they made a huge part of military elite, it's little bit same why many Middle Easterners called and still call Greeks Ionians, and not Hellenes.

    To my surprise wikipedia says that the word Tatar in western sources is a loan from Persian, and originally meant mounted messenger, so that's another possible explanation why Mongols were called Tatars.

  144. @Dacian Julien Soros
    @AnonfromTN

    Please read up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Reuben . Vioxx was one of a few failures. FDA's performance is stellar, compared with any other national authority.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    If you mean other American national authorities, FDA isn’t that bad. If you mean its equivalents in other countries, FDA performance is far from stellar

  145. @Blinky Bill
    @Mikhail

    https://www.las2orillas.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Putin-y-Diego-638x514.jpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY8JX6OdTwhgUKk09QnhZEkrXy7EG7DOqCMA&usqp.jpg

    http://www.marambio.aq/images/mapa-bicontinental-plataforma.jpg

    https://www.geopolitica.ru/sites/default/files/argentina_1.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @songbird

    Don’t know the merits of the competing claims, but I think South Georgia should belong to whoever can effectively claim Shackleton, just on the basis of his deeds. BTW, where is the home of his early childhood?

  146. @Mikhail
    @AltanBakshi


    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis.
     
    Some of them still have that look.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Mr. Hack, @AltanBakshi

    Randomly selected Tartar, a Russian Nobody.

  147. @Sean
    @songbird

    He happened to have a sky high IQ. After having a really good idea and becoming a centi millionaire, he sold his shares in the eponymous business and invested in property, and so of course in 2008 lost 95 % of it. McAfee simply refused to file US tax returns between 2016 and 2018. I expect his kynurenic acid level became higher as it does in aging men (explaining their worse outcomes in COVID-19; bats live with coronaviruses by selective suppression of immune response). Immune over activation is behind much psychotic behavior. His father was an alcoholic that committed suicide, and McAfee was informed of Spain's decision to extradite him the morning of the day he died. What's to understand?

    Replies: @songbird

    Likely a suicide, as he didn’t know anything, and it’s a more powerful signal to put an old guy in modern anarcho-tyranny prison than fake a suicide.

    Epstein, though, is certainly open to interpretation.

  148. @216
    @Anatoly Karlin

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1387795535415943172

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Pericles

    University is actually a great place to make friends and contacts, or at least it used to be. But perhaps that’s declined as women have taken over.

    (The 11% volcels could instead be looking forward to a conventional arranged marriage after attaining their credential. After all, getting sexually roughed up in some apartment of questionable hygiene by a fat tattooed person of indeterminate sexual persuasion might not be all that attractive by comparison.)

  149. @Mikhail
    @AltanBakshi


    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis.
     
    Some of them still have that look.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Mr. Hack, @AltanBakshi

    This fellow had “that look”,and considered himself to be a Ukrainian. The “Svidomite” brand for sure:

    Tatar, Belorusian, Polish? Ahatanhel Krymsky considered himself a Ukrainian as quoted on this new commemorative coin. He chose this appellation “consciously” making him technically a “Svidomite Ukrainian”. 🙂

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    " in the center of the star are the following words of Krymsky: Я ЗРОЗУМІВ,/ ЩО МУШУ БУТИ/ УКРАЇНОФІЛОМ –/ ЦЕ Я ЗРОЗУМІВ/ ЦІЛКОМ СВІДОМО (I have realized that I must be a Ukrainophile – this was a perfectly conscious decision)"

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces268062.html

    , @Mikhail
    @Mr. Hack

    I'll be rooting for Ukraine against England in recognition of the non-svido factor on the Ukrainian team.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  150. @reiner Tor
    @Beckow


    about 75% of the population was effectively barred from higher education of any kind because it was expensive and you had to start preparing in elementary school
     
    Luckily most of the poor people didn’t have the talent either. By the way it did happen in the 1980s that someone’s parents pushed him to learn a trade instead of going to a “gimnázium” (similar to British grammar schools preparing for university and good for little else), and based on what my parents told me even more frequently in the 1960s, so the “100%” is just a fantasy either. Social mobility was much higher in the period 1945-56, but that’s just because all times of turmoil make it easier to rise to the top. The study actually shows that then the previous elite rose back to the top. Which proves that they indeed were more talented.

    What are large sections? Who was barred? 5%? 25%? Numbers matter. Access to education was not universal before that either.
     
    I would say at least half the people who had the talent were barred from university education. It was abolished in the wake of the 1956 revolution, when it turned out that the students from the toiling classes were unreliable as well, and a large portion of them left the country anyway, freeing up university capacity. And in Hungary I’m pretty sure it wasn’t just law and the humanities.

    Replies: @iffen, @Beckow

    the previous elite rose back to the top. Which proves that they indeed were more talented.

    The people at the top are more talented and being at the top proves it.

    Seriously, there is are differences between being “talented” and have the talents to claw your way to the top.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @iffen

    Well at first they didn’t occupy positions of power, that came later. At first they were just acing entrance exams and similar. Getting jobs like scientists, engineers, doctors, academics, then of course lawyers and managers. Finally they found their way even to the Central Committee.

    Replies: @iffen

  151. @Yellowface Anon
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Not thay I know of (and why would you ask that?)

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Blinky Bill

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Blinky Bill

    Quite an accurate analysis tho the NatSec law (or COVID restrictions) has largely put an end to those active resistance.

    We've succeeded spectacularly in an Armenia-type semi-victory - Partial annihilation and majoritarian exile in exchange of self-consolidation (or so the yellow-ribbon emigrant thinks). But the world isn't the one right after WWI.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  152. @AltanBakshi
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Long answer is that yes
     
    You are not making any sense. Just belonging to some haplogroup, doesnt make anyone European or Asian.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Sorry that’s a typo. I meant

    Long answer is no, Genghis is not Caucasoid.

    I hope my other statements were elucidating. The original Coon classification of 4 races, Caucasoid/Mongoloid/Australoid/Negroid, were entirely phenotypically based.

    Genetic analysis has largely confirmed this, with notable exceptions:

    – Ainus are not Caucasoid as originally postulated, but rather a distinct type closer related to other E. Asians
    – Finns despite phenotype have considerable E. Asian genetics

    What’s more complex is how these races formed, for example, y-haplogroup O (E.Asian) and N (North Eurasian) both branched off the original NO

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_NO

    • Thanks: Boomthorkell
  153. @AnonfromTN
    @Svevlad

    It's genetics. We have six alleles (I. E., 12 genes total) encoding skin colour. If you have all 12 dark versions, you are black like piggies. If you have all 12 lite versions, you never tan, as you don't have enzymes to make melanin. You go red, get blisters, lose outer skin, then go white again

    Replies: @iffen

    I burn easily and quickly. Back when I was stupid stupider I could very gradually tan to a shade darker than many American blacks.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @iffen

    This means you have enough dark genes. As to burning, even the darkest person burns under intense sun

    Replies: @iffen

  154. @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail

    This fellow had "that look",and considered himself to be a Ukrainian. The "Svidomite" brand for sure:

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/ukraine/600a9e264705d1.43106415-180.jpg

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/ukraine/600a9e266e5cf7.37409703-180.jpg

    Tatar, Belorusian, Polish? Ahatanhel Krymsky considered himself a Ukrainian as quoted on this new commemorative coin. He chose this appellation "consciously" making him technically a "Svidomite Ukrainian". :-)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    ” in the center of the star are the following words of Krymsky: Я ЗРОЗУМІВ,/ ЩО МУШУ БУТИ/ УКРАЇНОФІЛОМ –/ ЦЕ Я ЗРОЗУМІВ/ ЦІЛКОМ СВІДОМО (I have realized that I must be a Ukrainophile – this was a perfectly conscious decision)”

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces268062.html

  155. @AltanBakshi
    @BlackFlag

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Mongol_Empire_c.1207.png

    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis. Even though Karlin's island is an island of reason, I tend to forget that there are so many strange racialists and other weirdos here. Racialism is not always bad, but we wuz Mongols and Steppe Aryans is just disgusting larping, a signal of rootlessness and lack of authenticity.

    Many Tatars were later garrisoned to lands of Golden Horde, and after few centuries local Türks appropriated the name. There are literally dozens of such cases in history, original Bulgars were not Slavic, actually they were Volga Tatar, ha, ha too funny. Jalairs were originally Mongol tribe, but later rulers of Iraq, Franks were Germanic tribe, now they are French, and so on, and so on....

    "On the contrary, he doesn’t talk about the Cathays as being fair-skinned"

    I don't bother looking up, but I remember otherwise, that Polo called people of Cathay fair, but I'm not completely sure.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Bashibuzuk, @BlackFlag

    I know the source of the confusion because Tatar is used in so many contexts…

    1. Tartare sauce – totally irrelevant
    2. Refers to Mongols of the Golden Horde as you said, etymology Greek Tartarus (from hell)
    3. Refers to specific groups like Crimean Tatar as you say

    Lastly, before the time of Russian conquest, Europeans used the term Grande Tartarie for the vast region in North/Inner Asia, between Eastern Europe, Persia and China

    View post on imgur.com

    Later on, Brits still used Tatars to refer to Qing Manchu rulers.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Later on, Brits still used Tatars to refer to Qing Manchu rulers.
     
    Tatar was a blanket term for all Altaics in 19th century.

    Tartare sauce – totally irrelevant
     
    But steak tartare is not!

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  156. @Mikhail
    @AltanBakshi


    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis.
     
    Some of them still have that look.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Mr. Hack, @AltanBakshi

    I forgot to answer why Mongols were often called Tatars in western sources, well Tatars were among the first to join to Chingghis Khaans empire, they made a huge part of military elite, it’s little bit same why many Middle Easterners called and still call Greeks Ionians, and not Hellenes.

    To my surprise wikipedia says that the word Tatar in western sources is a loan from Persian, and originally meant mounted messenger, so that’s another possible explanation why Mongols were called Tatars.

  157. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dmitry

    When you have 15-20% of reproductive age people saying they are non-heterosexual at that point it will almost certainly start having an effect on fertility rates.

    Replies: @216, @Svevlad, @Dmitry

    Yeah but it’s mostly a meme, wait a little and you’ll see that the numbers drop as one gets older, very few go with the alphabet mafia cringe all the way.

    On the other hand, it’s better if most of those roaches doesn’t reproduce. They’ll infest their children with their bullshit. The pozz is de facto hereditary at this point.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @Svevlad


    Yeah but it’s mostly a meme, wait a little and you’ll see that the numbers drop as one gets older, very few go with the alphabet mafia cringe all the way.
     
    It does not make much of a difference whether they remain LGBT+ or not if they still end up wasting their limited reproductive years.

    A woman's best reproductive years are in her 20s. Fertility gradually declines in the 30s, particularly after age 35.
     
  158. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AltanBakshi

    I know the source of the confusion because Tatar is used in so many contexts...

    1. Tartare sauce - totally irrelevant
    2. Refers to Mongols of the Golden Horde as you said, etymology Greek Tartarus (from hell)
    3. Refers to specific groups like Crimean Tatar as you say

    Lastly, before the time of Russian conquest, Europeans used the term Grande Tartarie for the vast region in North/Inner Asia, between Eastern Europe, Persia and China

    https://imgur.com/a/ng4EURw

    Later on, Brits still used Tatars to refer to Qing Manchu rulers.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Later on, Brits still used Tatars to refer to Qing Manchu rulers.

    Tatar was a blanket term for all Altaics in 19th century.

    Tartare sauce – totally irrelevant

    But steak tartare is not!

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AltanBakshi


    But steak tartare is not!

     

    Steaks are how I get my gains (of muscle function) 🤓

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

  159. @AnonfromTN
    @Dmitry

    Short term safety of Pfizer and Moderna is way lower than officially claimed. Quite a few cases of local paralysis, heart complications, and even deaths were reported despite suppression. FDA recently added heart issues to the official list.

    Importantly FDA approved Pfizer and Moderna for emergency use after Congress indemnified both companies

    Replies: @Jazman, @Dmitry

    There is interesting case in Canada with professor Byram Bridle (associate professor of viral immunology, University of Guelph) . His life changed drastically for exposing Pfizer and Moderna

    There is lot of information similar to what you said

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Jazman

    So there is good reason for me to keep my name hidden. Then again, I am sure Big Brother knows who I am and does not bother to punish me. Just ignores me, like Soviet KGB did 30-40 years ago

  160. @Blinky Bill
    https://twitter.com/ArtyomLukin/status/1409821814776270851?s=20

    Replies: @Shortsword

    He sees signs that China has made a strategic decision to replace the corn imported from the US with Russian wheat.

    Replace corn with wheat? How would they do this? Put tariffs on American corn?

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Shortsword

    https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-state-owned-firms-told-to-halt-purchases-of-us-farm-produce

    https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/free-market-command-economy.png

    https://image.slidesharecdn.com/hkustbusinessinsightspresentationseriesapril2015-state-ownedenterprisesunderchinasstatecapitalism-150709073551-lva1-app6892/95/yong-wang-stateowned-enterprises-under-chinas-state-capitalism-1-638.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  161. @AltanBakshi

    Не надо быть проницательным, чтобы в черепе Тимура увидеть типичные монголоидные черты: яркая бракифалня, очевидно, уплощенное лицо, значительная его ширина и высота. Все это как нельзя лучше связывается с письменными документами, свидетельствующими о происхождении Тимура из рода барласов.

    http://www.rusanthropology.ru/index.php/informatsiya/novosti/629-gerasimov-m-m-portret-tamerlana
     

    .
    .

    The Roman who visited the camp of Attilla the Hun commented on their yellowish skin.
     
    Not yellowish, but swarthy or bronze like, actually I have mentioned this fact about Attila previously here on unz.com. Anyone who has travelled in Asian countryside, can confirm that East Asian skin is extremely adaptable, when under the sun, like farmers, it can get as dark as North Indian skin, but when not in sun, like monks, it can be as fair as cream. In my opinion if one just considers pragmatically which type of skin is the best, then it's Northeast Asian, for it's naturally fair, but tans well under the sun, unlike skin of pure Nordic stock, which just burns or gets pink, but Nordic people have other good qualities. These things are not a zero sum game in a world where everything is under a constant flux. Btw isn't the skin of Mediterraneans somewhat similar in this matter? Though its rare to see Greeks having as fair skin as modern day young Koreans and Japanese...

    That's why Khagan Attila who lived his whole life outdoors as warrior, had a swarthy skin, and that's why sophisticated Khagan Khubilai, who lived among Chinese literati, in beautiful gardens and palaces, had a fair skin.


    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/58/2b/a7582b96a35841008e1936b97842402c.jpg
    Here do you see? Older Tibetan nomads are extremely swarthy, for they have lived their whole lives under the sun and icy wind, their skin is often like old bronze, leathery and dark, but monks who have spent their lives inside temples and monasteries, have fair complexion.

    https://treasuryoflives.org/uploads/person/13652/Bakula-%20Pethub-1940.jpg

    Here's a Tibetan high lama

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Vs8E_4pppuc/TUQpCV99ZMI/AAAAAAAAALg/JOjIsmsibOU/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/HH_Bogdo_Gegen_Rinpoche.jpg
    Here an example of Mongol nobleman.

    Replies: @AP, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Northeast Asian, for it’s naturally fair, but tans well under the sun

    View post on imgur.com

    View post on imgur.com

  162. @iffen
    @AnonfromTN

    I burn easily and quickly. Back when I was stupid stupider I could very gradually tan to a shade darker than many American blacks.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    This means you have enough dark genes. As to burning, even the darkest person burns under intense sun

    • Replies: @iffen
    @AnonfromTN

    This means you have enough dark genes.

    I wonder if it will be enough to get some of muh reparations.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Truth

  163. @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    There is interesting case in Canada with professor Byram Bridle (associate professor of viral immunology, University of Guelph) . His life changed drastically for exposing Pfizer and Moderna
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1WLkbd6RZY
    There is lot of information similar to what you said

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    So there is good reason for me to keep my name hidden. Then again, I am sure Big Brother knows who I am and does not bother to punish me. Just ignores me, like Soviet KGB did 30-40 years ago

    • LOL: Jazman
  164. @AnonfromTN
    @iffen

    This means you have enough dark genes. As to burning, even the darkest person burns under intense sun

    Replies: @iffen

    This means you have enough dark genes.

    I wonder if it will be enough to get some of muh reparations.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @iffen

    Well, when tanned I am darker than many American blacks.

    Still, I worked all my life, never was in jail, never did drugs, and never had counterfeit bills to pass.

    If you are as horribly white-behaving, your chances of getting muh reparations are zip.

    , @Truth
    @iffen

    No, I har Cap'n Joe is way ahead of you guys, he has written cack-measuring into his rules for reparations distribution.

    Replies: @iffen

  165. @Anatoly Karlin
    @216

    That's correct.

    * Until recently, they did have relatively high TFRs for their class of country (barring weird outliers like Israel).
    * It was also a more eugenic TFR than in most any developed country: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/what-the-nordics-get-right/
    * The idea that it's all immigrants is a rightoid myth: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2018/11/fertility-of-immigrant-groups-in-denmark-by-generation/

    US TFR is plummeting, probably this has to do with the two pronged assault of rapid secularization + ubiquitous Wokeism making more and more zoomers and millennials literally gay.

    I don't recall ever actively identifying as a conservative or a right-winger, so I can't say I care for ideological labels from rightoids any more than ODS on RationalWiki calling me a white supremacist.

    Replies: @216, @Passer by, @Dmitry, @Truth

    Hey Toly, what if you really don’t understand Russia’s role in world politics? Just supposing…

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Truth

    Funny thing is, the actor who played Soviet boxer Ivan Drago, Hans “Dolph” Lundgren, is Swedish, while the Italian Stallion may be part Slavic.

    Sly’s mother, maiden name Labofish, was half French and half Russian and/or Jewish: it appears that two of her grandparents were Russian citizens and lived in the Crimea.

    Replies: @Aedib

  166. @Blinky Bill
    @Yellowface Anon

    https://lateralthinkingtechnology.wordpress.com/2020/08/16/the-revolution-will-not-be-trending-hong-kong-social-media-and-the-failure-of-attention-politics/

    Have you read it?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Quite an accurate analysis tho the NatSec law (or COVID restrictions) has largely put an end to those active resistance.

    We’ve succeeded spectacularly in an Armenia-type semi-victory – Partial annihilation and majoritarian exile in exchange of self-consolidation (or so the yellow-ribbon emigrant thinks). But the world isn’t the one right after WWI.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    I'll actually add one important point of comparison: once the BLM riots got kickstarted I immediately noticed uncanny similarities in the theatrics (after all our protesters copy American tactics wholesale), and I knew the same frustrated impulse behind HK's civil unrest was also behind BLM. It's down to the ideological commitment, tribalism and narrow-mindedness, only that White males are replaced with everything mainland Chinese! That was the point I definitely snapped out of being one of the Movement's sympathizers.

    The Movement was actually a broad coalition (if you can call ragtag protesters one), from near-establishment pan-democrats to the most radical separatists, with lots of moderates and opportunists in between, and of course a good number of agent provocateurs. I was following the City-Statist teacher, Dr. Chin, who imagines himself as a Dugin but totally worshipping the old British institutions (and bases his plan for HK's revival on it - hence "City-Statism"). TradCons can see how stupid this is especially when he also advocates for traditionalism.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  167. @Yellowface Anon
    @Blinky Bill

    Quite an accurate analysis tho the NatSec law (or COVID restrictions) has largely put an end to those active resistance.

    We've succeeded spectacularly in an Armenia-type semi-victory - Partial annihilation and majoritarian exile in exchange of self-consolidation (or so the yellow-ribbon emigrant thinks). But the world isn't the one right after WWI.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    I’ll actually add one important point of comparison: once the BLM riots got kickstarted I immediately noticed uncanny similarities in the theatrics (after all our protesters copy American tactics wholesale), and I knew the same frustrated impulse behind HK’s civil unrest was also behind BLM. It’s down to the ideological commitment, tribalism and narrow-mindedness, only that White males are replaced with everything mainland Chinese! That was the point I definitely snapped out of being one of the Movement’s sympathizers.

    The Movement was actually a broad coalition (if you can call ragtag protesters one), from near-establishment pan-democrats to the most radical separatists, with lots of moderates and opportunists in between, and of course a good number of agent provocateurs. I was following the City-Statist teacher, Dr. Chin, who imagines himself as a Dugin but totally worshipping the old British institutions (and bases his plan for HK’s revival on it – hence “City-Statism”). TradCons can see how stupid this is especially when he also advocates for traditionalism.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Thanks: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    Some more info on Horace Chin: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1257295/independent-thinker-horace-chin-treads-bold-path
    https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2091282/horace-chin-father-localism-draws-red-line-against-secession (extremely prescient)
    https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hk/%E9%99%B3%E4%BA%91%E6%A0%B9 (ok-ish wiki bio)

    His ideology is basically "Hong Kong City-Statism" (or just restoring and refining the autonomous liberal institutions that is apparently constrained by local and state influences) feeding into a "Huaxia Confederation" (some kind of loose cooperative association like the Commonwealth, but slightly more centralized), and after mostly Chinese cultural revitalization (including his own seasonal ceremonies). He's more of a reformist than a revolutionary, and quite far from radical.

    He was mostly a discourse setting during the 2nd half of 2019 and the few marches signalling his desire for American intervention (personally endorsing "President Trump, please liberate Hong Kong" signs). Once the whole movement took a nihilist turn he was the first to be critical of some of the influences from both the 2nd and 3rd generation of dissident politics (from the article you linked of course) - and eventually condemning the PolyU siege's strategy and declaring the cause to be lost.

    He's back to cultural and religious work (doing lots of Tantric and Taoist practice) while being anti-COVID-restriction and antivaxx. But most importantly (and maybe under the NatSec law's influence) his thoughts are back to institutional reform without really undermining the fundamentals of Hong Kong's state structure, the way he has always wanted. He isn't testing the limits of the NatSec law, and me neither.

    My entire political horizon was set by his daily writings on Facebook (which I've stopped reading after learning libertarianism)

  168. @Shortsword
    @Blinky Bill


    He sees signs that China has made a strategic decision to replace the corn imported from the US with Russian wheat.
     
    Replace corn with wheat? How would they do this? Put tariffs on American corn?

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Blinky Bill

    China is on the dirigist model once pursued by France, but with more state control over the Commanding Heights of the Economy and some coercion over the rest.

  169. @iffen
    @AnonfromTN

    This means you have enough dark genes.

    I wonder if it will be enough to get some of muh reparations.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Truth

    Well, when tanned I am darker than many American blacks.

    Still, I worked all my life, never was in jail, never did drugs, and never had counterfeit bills to pass.

    If you are as horribly white-behaving, your chances of getting muh reparations are zip.

  170. @reiner Tor
    @Mikhail

    The Russian navy is probably better overall than the Royal Navy, for example the British carriers don’t have enough escort ships, making them useless in and of themselves. Though once we are willing to overlook that deficiency, the British could be granted to possess a better blue water surface fleet than the Russians. Then we’d have to decide what the better green water fleet of the Russians was worth, not to mention their likely superior submarine fleet, both nuclear and diesel-electric.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

    RN unlike the Russian Navy is not designed to fight serious wars as a stand alone Navy but as a somewhat autonomous extension of the US Navy.

    Therefore if you look at a US Carrier fleet (the gold standard) as a benchmark for how a large carrier should be deployed you will find gaps in terms of lack of adequate number of Nuclear Submarine escorts and competent Air defence destroyers as the Type 45 has serious serviceability issues due to its unique and largely unsuccessful and failure prone WR21 marine turbines.

    But none of this matters as long as it is fighting under the NATO flag alongside the USN.

    Also because of NATO a much larger fraction of the RN can be deployed as an expeditionary force whereas a large portion of the Russian Navy is required to be deployed near home to defend its vast coastlines.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Vishnugupta

    That’s roughly what I wanted to say, but you described it better and put it in context. (NATO membership of the UK.)

    So the Royal Navy is not as capable in itself, but it would be unlikely to fight alone. (Except to protect the Falkland Islands it had to do so, but in general it’s unlikely.) The Russian navy doesn’t have modern carriers and even its destroyers might be obsolete, but it’s capable of protecting the vast coastline alone, without allies.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

  171. @AltanBakshi
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Later on, Brits still used Tatars to refer to Qing Manchu rulers.
     
    Tatar was a blanket term for all Altaics in 19th century.

    Tartare sauce – totally irrelevant
     
    But steak tartare is not!

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    But steak tartare is not!

    Steaks are how I get my gains (of muscle function) 🤓

    • Replies: @Jatt Aryaa
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    It's ok I'll cut you down to the bone.

    Also, Singhs recovering girls in Kashmir

    https://mobile.twitter.com/amaanbali/status/1409771551205986319?s=20

    Also, just hide Dmitry. Any Wokeism @ uefa btw?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  172. @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    I'll actually add one important point of comparison: once the BLM riots got kickstarted I immediately noticed uncanny similarities in the theatrics (after all our protesters copy American tactics wholesale), and I knew the same frustrated impulse behind HK's civil unrest was also behind BLM. It's down to the ideological commitment, tribalism and narrow-mindedness, only that White males are replaced with everything mainland Chinese! That was the point I definitely snapped out of being one of the Movement's sympathizers.

    The Movement was actually a broad coalition (if you can call ragtag protesters one), from near-establishment pan-democrats to the most radical separatists, with lots of moderates and opportunists in between, and of course a good number of agent provocateurs. I was following the City-Statist teacher, Dr. Chin, who imagines himself as a Dugin but totally worshipping the old British institutions (and bases his plan for HK's revival on it - hence "City-Statism"). TradCons can see how stupid this is especially when he also advocates for traditionalism.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Some more info on Horace Chin: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1257295/independent-thinker-horace-chin-treads-bold-path
    https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2091282/horace-chin-father-localism-draws-red-line-against-secession (extremely prescient)
    https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hk/%E9%99%B3%E4%BA%91%E6%A0%B9 (ok-ish wiki bio)

    His ideology is basically “Hong Kong City-Statism” (or just restoring and refining the autonomous liberal institutions that is apparently constrained by local and state influences) feeding into a “Huaxia Confederation” (some kind of loose cooperative association like the Commonwealth, but slightly more centralized), and after mostly Chinese cultural revitalization (including his own seasonal ceremonies). He’s more of a reformist than a revolutionary, and quite far from radical.

    He was mostly a discourse setting during the 2nd half of 2019 and the few marches signalling his desire for American intervention (personally endorsing “President Trump, please liberate Hong Kong” signs). Once the whole movement took a nihilist turn he was the first to be critical of some of the influences from both the 2nd and 3rd generation of dissident politics (from the article you linked of course) – and eventually condemning the PolyU siege’s strategy and declaring the cause to be lost.

    He’s back to cultural and religious work (doing lots of Tantric and Taoist practice) while being anti-COVID-restriction and antivaxx. But most importantly (and maybe under the NatSec law’s influence) his thoughts are back to institutional reform without really undermining the fundamentals of Hong Kong’s state structure, the way he has always wanted. He isn’t testing the limits of the NatSec law, and me neither.

    My entire political horizon was set by his daily writings on Facebook (which I’ve stopped reading after learning libertarianism)

  173. @Blinky Bill
    @Shortsword

    https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-state-owned-firms-told-to-halt-purchases-of-us-farm-produce

    https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/free-market-command-economy.png

    https://image.slidesharecdn.com/hkustbusinessinsightspresentationseriesapril2015-state-ownedenterprisesunderchinasstatecapitalism-150709073551-lva1-app6892/95/yong-wang-stateowned-enterprises-under-chinas-state-capitalism-1-638.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    China is on the dirigist model once pursued by France, but with more state control over the Commanding Heights of the Economy and some coercion over the rest.

  174. @Coconuts
    @AltanBakshi

    Sorry about that Altan, the message 94 I just posted was supposed to be a comment on one of the points in AK's intro to the thread.

    To add to this:


    Also I believe that state of Cuba does not practice “positive discrimination” in such scale as American state, therefore it’s not surprising if elites are mostly Europeans in a European majority state, especially when Europeans are cognitively…
     
    I suppose in Cuba the way to resolve racial issues is still understood in terms of classical Marxist thinking as being tied up with both proletarian nationalism and economics (the implementation of a socialist system etc.). Whereas in the US, CRT seems to prioritise making an alliance between middle class and wealthy liberal whites and ethno-nationalist blacks, on the basis of trying to funnel money and resources away from whites who might vote for the Republicans to these blacks and other minority groups.

    I am not in the US but this is what it basically looks like from the outside.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Karlin’s white supremacism explanation does not hold water, and is easily eliminated by Occam’s razor. Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them, if that’s white supremacism, then Nazis were secret philosemites who just wanted to ensure the creation of Israel and generations of goodwill for Jews.

    I have myself theorised that western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it’s fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups, in such way whole world could be united under the western elites, but still society would be divided enough so that the plebs could never overcome their differences and do neo-bolshevik revolution and overthrow the elites. There’s a fine balancing act going.

    Maybe CIA and other such orgs researched this stuff in 1950-1980, how to direct and channel revolutionary forces in society for the benefit of the rulers? Didn’t FBI and friends plant agents into every kind of political organisation imaginable in those years? How sad that I will probably never see those reports.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    @AltanBakshi


    Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them
     
    ,

    You did not read what Karlin wrote, nor, apparently, the many comments in response.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @Beckow
    @AltanBakshi


    ...western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it’s fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups
     
    I agree, that's is happening, but I would drop trying to create part. They don't know what they are doing.

    It is a simple result of the institutional stranglehold that the West suffers from. It is the "Pakis in the BBC hallway dynamic" - well-socialised, career-oriented people will go out of their way to be inoffensive even when a single Third World migrant or a gender deviant is around. Feminised societies suppress conflict as top priority and with women in charge everywhere it is safer to bend over backwards and not stand out.

    It is working through all Western institutions, it has now hit police and military. The other side sees no resistance, so they go ape-shit. The oligarchs see that it distracts people from economic issues, so they support it. This will not end well, manias never do.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    Also my Nazi comparison was a bit too extreme, for I don't believe in "white genocide." Or what genocide actually means these days? Even expelling immigrants and their descendants is genocide according to some, like in the case of Rohingyas. When I think of genocide, I think ww2 Nazi style in Belarus, Poland. Ethnic restaurants and Middle Eastern drug dealers is something else, late stage liberal universalism?

    In my opinion it's just too far fetched to call white liberal elitism by the name of white supremacism.

    , @Coconuts
    @AltanBakshi


    Karlin’s white supremacism explanation does not hold water, and is easily eliminated by Occam’s razor. Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them, if that’s white supremacism, then Nazis were secret philosemites who just wanted to ensure the creation of Israel and generations of goodwill for Jews.
     
    I also thought about examples along those lines, they would be a reductio ad absurdum of AK's original argument.

    But IMHO White genocide is also too implausible a possibility to be that useful, so I started thinking about Eric Kaufmann's whiteshift concept instead. Whiteshift is the idea that by the last decades of this century former white majority countries in North America and Western Europe will be around 80% non-white and mixed race, and the definition of 'white' will move again to include populations now thought of as mixed or non-white. This is a more mainstream prediction for the future and also something that has more probability of occurring.

    Now, the elites in those countries after something like whiteshift will probably be mainly descended from the current white elites, but very likely will be more racially mixed than now. And, it seems support for whiteshift and a desire to repress anything that might be an obstacle to it happening is strong among some white elites and progressives, so in that way it can be seen as an example of 'white supremacy'. But the content and goal of such a whiteshift policy is the opposite of white supremacist.

    Why elites and progressives would want to either engineer this outcome, or at least to try to forestall or repress concerns about it, is an interesting question.

    Replies: @216, @Anatoly Karlin

    , @Coconuts
    @AltanBakshi


    I have myself theorised that western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it’s fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups, in such way whole world could be united under the western elites, but still society would be divided enough so that the plebs could never overcome their differences and do neo-bolshevik revolution and overthrow the elites. There’s a fine balancing act going.
     
    This is another thing that I thought was a possibility. But it seems to me the most logical way of doing this would be to promote more traditional European left wing or liberal universalist ideals, with the elites setting themselves up as the 'vanguard of progress' in charge of managing the whole thing. The identity groups that could have been most useful in dividing societies to a useful or manageable extent would be those around gender and sexuality.

    The new approach coming from the US is more risky, because in the name of anti-racism and equality it is based on placing a lot of emphasis on group identity, collective consciousness and ethnically or racially based oppressed/oppressor relationships; it looks like trying to put these things into the foundations of the culture and political system. Intersectional theory apparently contains the concept of 'strategic essentialism', that left-wing activists who are supposed to believe that race is a social construct can act as if they are race essentialists, provided it furthers the cause of the liberation of the oppressed. In practice this theoretical distinction between being a race essentialist and pretending to be one seems to cease to exist, meaning parts of the left become functionally racialist (often in ways that are more outspoken than current ethno-nationalists).

    Even Western elites closely allied with the US seem to perceive the danger in theories like these spreading for their own political projects (or even internal stability). In France, for example they are publicly attacked by members of the elite and in Britain measures are being taken to try to restrict the influence of the US stuff and bring it closer to old fashioned liberal anti-racism.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Yellowface Anon

  175. @AltanBakshi
    @Coconuts

    Karlin's white supremacism explanation does not hold water, and is easily eliminated by Occam's razor. Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them, if that's white supremacism, then Nazis were secret philosemites who just wanted to ensure the creation of Israel and generations of goodwill for Jews.

    I have myself theorised that western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it's fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups, in such way whole world could be united under the western elites, but still society would be divided enough so that the plebs could never overcome their differences and do neo-bolshevik revolution and overthrow the elites. There's a fine balancing act going.

    Maybe CIA and other such orgs researched this stuff in 1950-1980, how to direct and channel revolutionary forces in society for the benefit of the rulers? Didn't FBI and friends plant agents into every kind of political organisation imaginable in those years? How sad that I will probably never see those reports.

    Replies: @AaronB, @Beckow, @AltanBakshi, @Coconuts, @Coconuts

    Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them

    ,

    You did not read what Karlin wrote, nor, apparently, the many comments in response.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AaronB

    Yes, I should have written instead that Karlin uses wrong name for the phenomenon.

    He's explanation was quite more complicated. White is a race in American discussion, and if one elite group of whites uses wokeism as a political weapon against other groups, both minorities and other whites, then how it's white supremacism? It's just white liberal elitism then! Which also is not completely true in my opinion.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  176. @iffen
    @AnonfromTN

    This means you have enough dark genes.

    I wonder if it will be enough to get some of muh reparations.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Truth

    No, I har Cap’n Joe is way ahead of you guys, he has written cack-measuring into his rules for reparations distribution.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Truth

    Can I at least pawn my white privilege for a little ready cash?

  177. @Truth
    @iffen

    No, I har Cap'n Joe is way ahead of you guys, he has written cack-measuring into his rules for reparations distribution.

    Replies: @iffen

    Can I at least pawn my white privilege for a little ready cash?

  178. Union State is inevitable.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Svevlad
    @Blinky Bill

    Stop it, the poor little butthurt belters have to do their nofap

  179. @reiner Tor
    @Beckow


    about 75% of the population was effectively barred from higher education of any kind because it was expensive and you had to start preparing in elementary school
     
    Luckily most of the poor people didn’t have the talent either. By the way it did happen in the 1980s that someone’s parents pushed him to learn a trade instead of going to a “gimnázium” (similar to British grammar schools preparing for university and good for little else), and based on what my parents told me even more frequently in the 1960s, so the “100%” is just a fantasy either. Social mobility was much higher in the period 1945-56, but that’s just because all times of turmoil make it easier to rise to the top. The study actually shows that then the previous elite rose back to the top. Which proves that they indeed were more talented.

    What are large sections? Who was barred? 5%? 25%? Numbers matter. Access to education was not universal before that either.
     
    I would say at least half the people who had the talent were barred from university education. It was abolished in the wake of the 1956 revolution, when it turned out that the students from the toiling classes were unreliable as well, and a large portion of them left the country anyway, freeing up university capacity. And in Hungary I’m pretty sure it wasn’t just law and the humanities.

    Replies: @iffen, @Beckow

    To summarize your point:

    Yes, pre-communism 75% of people were barred from higher education. But it is ok, they were stupid. As you say, most had no talent. Let’s only focus on the upper-class twits who really wanted to be art historians and the damn commies kept them from living their dreams. After 1956 they ended up driving taxis in NY and endlessly told gullible Americans about this horrible injustice.

    Am I getting it right? Should we try some nuance? Czechoslovakia was different, fewer members of the defined enemy groups – most people were some sort of socialist by 1945. We also had a large skilled working class with enough talent for higher education.

    The Academy on 2009 did a long-term study of high achievers from engineering to music, from medicine to science, and about 87% of the high achievers were fully or partially from groups that were before communism barred from higher education. The overall numbers were shockingly one-sided. Maybe we got rid of the previous elites more successfully, it was partially an ethnic issue.

    I have literally never heard of a single person barred from studying medicine, science or engineering. Law or humanities were a different story as is the case everywhere. There is an easy test, when BoJo hires Julian Assange as his spokesman,the West will have something. Until then, it is empty uninformed talk.

    • Thanks: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Beckow

    You are an idiot if you believe that 75% of people were “barred” from education. Poor people usually pressured their children to start working early, but this phenomenon persisted well into communism. On the other hand, there was a serious effort to get the smartest children educated, priests and local teachers tried everything in their power to send the children to better schools and let their talents grow.

    An interesting story is Károly Simonyi. He was a relative of the prime minister who signed the Treaty of Trianon (he was a lawyer, but also a representative of the Smallholders’ Party, and became prime minister because no one else was willing to sign the treaty), but his parents were middling peasants, and it took some effort from the local priest (he searched for a better off relative who could help him study and found the former prime minister) to help him. He graduated as an engineer and a lawyer at the same time. After the war he could work as a physicist, but then because of his (very modest) participation in the 1956 revolution, he was sidelined. Finally this made it possible for him to write an award winning book in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He isn’t really a descendant of the pre-war elite, but perhaps he’s related to the pre-war middle class. His son is Charles Simonyi, who left the country in the 1960s.

    Replies: @Beckow

  180. South Africa should consider phonetic spelling, of which Andrew Carnegie was a big advocate.

    I’ve been thinking that there are implications to the rate of illiteracy beyond IQ. Reading causes physical changes in the brain. Parts of it are repurposed and become worse at their old functions, like recognizing faces. The implication here is that blacks are more resistant to following societal norms because many lack this rewiring.

    In a way, they may be akin to peasants before the printing press. But with a Church of anti racism which strokes their egos, fears, and hatreds, rather than teaches them humility.

  181. @AltanBakshi
    @Coconuts

    Karlin's white supremacism explanation does not hold water, and is easily eliminated by Occam's razor. Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them, if that's white supremacism, then Nazis were secret philosemites who just wanted to ensure the creation of Israel and generations of goodwill for Jews.

    I have myself theorised that western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it's fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups, in such way whole world could be united under the western elites, but still society would be divided enough so that the plebs could never overcome their differences and do neo-bolshevik revolution and overthrow the elites. There's a fine balancing act going.

    Maybe CIA and other such orgs researched this stuff in 1950-1980, how to direct and channel revolutionary forces in society for the benefit of the rulers? Didn't FBI and friends plant agents into every kind of political organisation imaginable in those years? How sad that I will probably never see those reports.

    Replies: @AaronB, @Beckow, @AltanBakshi, @Coconuts, @Coconuts

    …western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it’s fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups

    I agree, that’s is happening, but I would drop trying to create part. They don’t know what they are doing.

    It is a simple result of the institutional stranglehold that the West suffers from. It is the “Pakis in the BBC hallway dynamic” – well-socialised, career-oriented people will go out of their way to be inoffensive even when a single Third World migrant or a gender deviant is around. Feminised societies suppress conflict as top priority and with women in charge everywhere it is safer to bend over backwards and not stand out.

    It is working through all Western institutions, it has now hit police and military. The other side sees no resistance, so they go ape-shit. The oligarchs see that it distracts people from economic issues, so they support it. This will not end well, manias never do.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Beckow


    well-socialised, career-oriented people will go out of their way to be inoffensive even when a single Third World migrant or a gender deviant is around. Feminised societies suppress conflict as top priority and with women in charge everywhere it is safer to bend over backwards and not stand out.
     
    You are now speaking of petit bourgeois folks, this is just bonus for oligarchs, such conformist people make good servants.

    I agree, that’s is happening, but I would drop trying to create part. They don’t know what they are doing.
     
    Its clear that at least some US governmental agencies, companies and oligarchs were trying to increase societal grievances during the Trump presidency. What else that is than planned weaponisation of radical movements and ideologies? Also if one has followed few generations western media, it is quite clear that there are some kind of propaganda directives. There must be some kind of central planning for execution of such policies.

    Replies: @Beckow, @AnotherTitus

  182. @AaronB
    @AltanBakshi


    Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them
     
    ,

    You did not read what Karlin wrote, nor, apparently, the many comments in response.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Yes, I should have written instead that Karlin uses wrong name for the phenomenon.

    He’s explanation was quite more complicated. White is a race in American discussion, and if one elite group of whites uses wokeism as a political weapon against other groups, both minorities and other whites, then how it’s white supremacism? It’s just white liberal elitism then! Which also is not completely true in my opinion.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AltanBakshi

    Argh, I should not have started my sentence with "yes," for god's sake! I like to type fast, maybe it's a problem... I did read Karlin's White Antifragility. I am just sometimes careless. Sorry for that.

  183. @AltanBakshi
    @AaronB

    Yes, I should have written instead that Karlin uses wrong name for the phenomenon.

    He's explanation was quite more complicated. White is a race in American discussion, and if one elite group of whites uses wokeism as a political weapon against other groups, both minorities and other whites, then how it's white supremacism? It's just white liberal elitism then! Which also is not completely true in my opinion.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Argh, I should not have started my sentence with “yes,” for god’s sake! I like to type fast, maybe it’s a problem… I did read Karlin’s White Antifragility. I am just sometimes careless. Sorry for that.

  184. Bashibuzuk says:

    Some Hamas and Hizballah propaganda from Nature Communications:

    Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe. These results point to a significant role for the conversion of women in the formation of Ashkenazi communities, and provide the foundation for a detailed reconstruction of Ashkenazi genealogical history.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543/figures/10

    Oy vey!

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Bashibuzuk

    Personally, I think the Ashkenazim were phenotypically shifted by living in Northern Europe, and that they are less European than phenotype would sometimes suggest.

    But I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that they bought Euro women as slaves. That the Pope banned Jews from owning Christian slaves does not in anyway disprove the possibility. Arabs certainly did it. American blacks got their white admixture largely through slavery.

    And, anyway, women were frequently sold, even after the end of slavery. It is not PC, but it seems more likely than women "converting", in a highly religious and patriarchal society.

    Replies: @utu

    , @Dmitry
    @Bashibuzuk

    This is an example of the historically typical pattern, until at least the late 19th century. Men were much more mobile than women, and travelling men have almost always married local women across history.

    However, strangely, in postindustrialized nationalities of the 21st century, we begin to see an inversion - that young women can seem to be more mobile than young men.

    In Russia, any of the wealthy glamorous cities of the country, are flooded with young internal immigrants, with a higher ratio of women. And higher ratios of young women than young men, are emigrating from the poor areas of the country.

    Within the EU, the same phenomenon - in the beginning, from Poland, for example, there were apparently two thirds young male to one third female emigrants, but in the last decade the majority are young women, and with higher average educational status than male emigrants.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  185. @Beckow
    @AltanBakshi


    ...western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it’s fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups
     
    I agree, that's is happening, but I would drop trying to create part. They don't know what they are doing.

    It is a simple result of the institutional stranglehold that the West suffers from. It is the "Pakis in the BBC hallway dynamic" - well-socialised, career-oriented people will go out of their way to be inoffensive even when a single Third World migrant or a gender deviant is around. Feminised societies suppress conflict as top priority and with women in charge everywhere it is safer to bend over backwards and not stand out.

    It is working through all Western institutions, it has now hit police and military. The other side sees no resistance, so they go ape-shit. The oligarchs see that it distracts people from economic issues, so they support it. This will not end well, manias never do.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    well-socialised, career-oriented people will go out of their way to be inoffensive even when a single Third World migrant or a gender deviant is around. Feminised societies suppress conflict as top priority and with women in charge everywhere it is safer to bend over backwards and not stand out.

    You are now speaking of petit bourgeois folks, this is just bonus for oligarchs, such conformist people make good servants.

    I agree, that’s is happening, but I would drop trying to create part. They don’t know what they are doing.

    Its clear that at least some US governmental agencies, companies and oligarchs were trying to increase societal grievances during the Trump presidency. What else that is than planned weaponisation of radical movements and ideologies? Also if one has followed few generations western media, it is quite clear that there are some kind of propaganda directives. There must be some kind of central planning for execution of such policies.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AltanBakshi


    ...at least some US governmental agencies, companies and oligarchs were trying to increase societal grievances during the Trump presidency.
     
    I am sure that's true but it doesn't mean they know what they are doing. If there was a competent central plan, it would be better managed. Come on, bats?, Russian saboteurs on Facebook? - this is amateur hour, maybe oligarchs don't deserve those bonuses.

    60-70% of people are naturally conformist - that holds across all IQ segments. It doesn't take much to get them to jump of cliffs. Let's not be too harsh on the petti-bourgeois, it is a fun lifestyle: jams in cupboards, deferring to experts, obedient vaccinations, and harmless Downton Abbey dreams. They know when it is safe to laugh and at what, and they instinctively know that resistance is risky. They may outlive us... even here on Unz when pressed, people revert to the safety of their mind-space, they have already been vaccinated against most dissent - they just don't know it.

    , @AnotherTitus
    @AltanBakshi


    There must be some kind of central planning for execution of such policies.
     
    Do you mean another one?

    https://covers.zlibcdn2.com/covers299/books/ab/a0/53/aba05365abe35fd446d6f83b149a32a2.jpg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU1JwSpIpzA
    Udo Ulfkotte died in early 2017 before 57 years old.

    These days for truth, CNN turns e.g. to James Clapper, former NSA director, of US Congress perjury fame, who claimed NSA was not spying on US citizens, or to Andrew McCabe, former FBI director deputy, of Russiagate fame:
    https://www.image-share.com/upload/4164/114.jpg
    NBC turns e.g. to John Brennan, former CIA director, of US Senate-spying mendacity fame, and rabid TDS sufferer:
    https://www.image-share.com/upload/4164/113.jpg
    Facebook meanwhile finds its commissar in Atlantic Council's Ben Nimmo:
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/ben-nimmo-joins-facebook/

    Ben Nimmo is a nonresident senior fellow of the Atlantic Council ***, which pays the salaries of pro-NATO journalists and activists and is funded by the US State Department and military contractors like Raytheon & Lockheed Martin.
     
    For many more names of glowinthedarks-cum-msm-pundits look for e.g. a piece published by an Australian woman, which I won't link because, being a woman, she couldn't refrain from pathetic, accusatory, self-pitiful attentionwhoring. But this is nothing new, it's just more overt now:

    In 1977 Carl Bernstein published an article titled ‘The CIA and the Media’ reporting that the CIA had covertly infiltrated the US most influential news outlets and had over 400 reporters who it considered assets in a program known as Operation Mockingbird.
     

    Long-time NED chief Carl Gershman – who in September 2013, less than six months prior to the coup that shifted Kiev’s political orientation, dubbed Ukraine “the biggest prize” for Washington – added that his organization was working with controversial opposition figure Svetlana Tikhanovskaya and her team “very, very closely.” In all, the agency bankrolled at least 159 civil society initiatives in Belarus, costing $7,690,689, from 2016 to 2020 alone.

    The team’s unguarded comments represent a rare public admission of the insidious, destabilizing role played by the NED – in 1991, its then-president Allen Weinstein acknowledged, “a lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.”
    ...
    Euroradio also repeatedly crops up in documents related to the Open Information Partnership (OIP), which is the “flagship” strand within Whitehall’s multi-pronged propaganda assault on Russia. Bankrolled by the FCDO to the tune of £10 million, the organization maintains a network of 44 partners across Central and Eastern Europe, including “journalists, charities, ***, academics, NGOs, activists, and ***.” One of the collective’s primary, covert objectives is influencing “elections taking place in countries of particular interest” to the FCDO.

    The classified files make clear the OIP has engaged in numerous astroturfing initiatives throughout the region, helping organizations and individuals produce slick propaganda masquerading as independent citizen journalism, which is then amplified globally via its network.

    For instance, in Ukraine, the OIP worked with a 12-strong group of online ‘influencers’ “to counter Kremlin-backed messaging through innovative editorial strategies, audience segmentation, and production models that reflected the complex and sensitive political environment,” in the process allowing them to “reach wider audiences with compelling content that received over four million views.”

    https://www.rt.com/russia/524296-western-meddling-belarus-power-change/
     

    During the call, Nina Ognianova, who oversees the NED's work with local groups in Belarus, outlined the wide-ranging programs the agency bankrolls in the country, insisting that “a lot of the people who have been trained by these hubs, who have been in touch with them and being educated, being involved in their work, have now taken the flag and started to lead in community organizing.”

    https://www.rt.com/russia/523956-regime-change-belarus-prank/
     

    The file, rampant with obvious disdain for the identity of the Baltics’ Russian minority, defines “soft power” as “the ability to affect others through the co-optive means of framing the agenda, persuading, and eliciting positive attraction in order to obtain preferred outcomes.”

    It also outlines a five-step behavioral change program for targets...
    https://www.rt.com/russia/517325-exposed-uk-russian-baltic/
     
    https://telegra.ph/OP-HMG-Trojan-Horse-Part-4-Undermining-Russia-I-02-04
    (You can ignore the occasional hacker-known-as-4chan tone, focus on the content, and keep in mind Ulfkotte's lesson and Weinstein admission.)
    https://i.imgur.com/ONffVEH.jpg
    You can mentally add the missing "euphemism quotes" (e.g. "independent", "balanced", "plurality", enemy "disinformation" vs. own "information", etc.)
    [REDACTED]:
    https://i.imgur.com/mbaHH8y.jpg

    Do you like their methods? Local Radio stations, Russian social networks VK & OK, Stand Up comedians, digital search optimisation, democracy festivals, on demand services, content factory. That's where they merge with EXPOSE: rebranding, black propaganda operation.
     
    https://i.imgur.com/KJNBgt4.jpg

    The British Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office officially says that CDMD [Bullshit & Media Development Program] is a national security issue (i.e. it's in the intelligence services' field of operations). OIP [Open Information Partnership] is a part of CDMD.
     
    https://i.imgur.com/Q8gn9zI.jpg
    "Independent" media and "influencers" who they "coach" and support (i.e. are dependent on them):
    https://i.imgur.com/uaFAIRF.jpg
    Some names previously mentioned around here:
    https://i.imgur.com/NYck6tQ.jpg
    https://telegra.ph/OP-HMG-Trojan-Horse-Part-4-Undermining-Russia-III-02-04
    "Inclusion", """gender""", "equality", "empowering", ..., these terms sound familiar. British Council's Theory of Co-option-based program for developing networks of influence in the russian near-abroad:
    https://i.imgur.com/WJEET8Z.jpg
    https://telegra.ph/OP-HMG-Trojan-Horse-Part-4-Undermining-Russia-IV-02-12
    Hey is that Ben Nimmo dude again, also someone called Ashurkov:
    https://i.imgur.com/bvlOosz.jpg
    Does the name Steele ring any bell?
    https://i.imgur.com/7Vihr6m.jpg

    Reuters, another contractor for the British FCO, and partner in OIP, training "online influencers", bloggers, and whorenalists to display proper """western values""":
    https://i.imgur.com/XnRacMH.jpg
    BTW, Reuters was already a British intelligence contractor during Soviet times:

    A series of official documents declassified in January 2020 revealed that Reuters was secretly funded by the British government throughout the 1960s and 1970s to assist an anti-Soviet propaganda organization run by the MI6 intelligence agency. The UK government used the BBC as a pass-through to conceal payments to the news group.

    The revelation prompted a Reuters spokesman to declare that “the arrangement in 1969 [with the MI6] was not in keeping with our Trust Principles and we would not do this today.”

    The Trust Principles outline a mission of “preserving [Reuters’] independence, integrity, and freedom from bias in the gathering and dissemination of information and news.”

    In its own statement of values, the BBC proclaims, “Trust is the foundation of the BBC. We’re independent, impartial and honest.”

    However, the newly leaked documents analyzed by The Grayzone appear to reveal that both Reuters and the BBC are engaged yet again in a non-transparent relationship with the UK’s foreign ministry to counter and undermine Russia.

    https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/20/reuters-bbc-uk-foreign-office-russian-media/
     
    Also, some of these EU/EE/Rus-targeted propaganda contractors were also set on Syria:
    https://thegrayzone.com/2020/09/23/syria-leaks-uk-contractors-opposition-media/

    And, as we learned, is not just """independence""" and """impartiality""" and """inclusivity""" that those US State Department and UK FCDO agencies promote, but also literal sexual deviance:
    https://insomniacresurrectedcom.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/screenshot-2021-05-16-at-14.50.45.png

    The above implies that those "elites" clearly have means and opportunity to develop and implement such "central planning". What about motive? Well, what do you think would be preferable as adversary or underclass for them? Normal people critical of the higher-ups and concerned with economic class, prosperity, and accountability (if I remember, after the 2008 financial collapse Iceland was the only country to have sent its bankers to trial), or a mass of conformist perverts, degenerates, and the mentally-ill apparently only concerned with corrupting and extinguishing themselves and their fellows?
    https://i.ibb.co/ngcCRLM/anti-bank-vs-bank-pro-poz.jpg
  186. @AltanBakshi
    @Coconuts

    Karlin's white supremacism explanation does not hold water, and is easily eliminated by Occam's razor. Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them, if that's white supremacism, then Nazis were secret philosemites who just wanted to ensure the creation of Israel and generations of goodwill for Jews.

    I have myself theorised that western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it's fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups, in such way whole world could be united under the western elites, but still society would be divided enough so that the plebs could never overcome their differences and do neo-bolshevik revolution and overthrow the elites. There's a fine balancing act going.

    Maybe CIA and other such orgs researched this stuff in 1950-1980, how to direct and channel revolutionary forces in society for the benefit of the rulers? Didn't FBI and friends plant agents into every kind of political organisation imaginable in those years? How sad that I will probably never see those reports.

    Replies: @AaronB, @Beckow, @AltanBakshi, @Coconuts, @Coconuts

    Also my Nazi comparison was a bit too extreme, for I don’t believe in “white genocide.” Or what genocide actually means these days? Even expelling immigrants and their descendants is genocide according to some, like in the case of Rohingyas. When I think of genocide, I think ww2 Nazi style in Belarus, Poland. Ethnic restaurants and Middle Eastern drug dealers is something else, late stage liberal universalism?

    In my opinion it’s just too far fetched to call white liberal elitism by the name of white supremacism.

  187. @Bashibuzuk
    Some Hamas and Hizballah propaganda from Nature Communications:

    Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe. These results point to a significant role for the conversion of women in the formation of Ashkenazi communities, and provide the foundation for a detailed reconstruction of Ashkenazi genealogical history.
     
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543/figures/10

    Oy vey!

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543

    Replies: @songbird, @Dmitry

    Personally, I think the Ashkenazim were phenotypically shifted by living in Northern Europe, and that they are less European than phenotype would sometimes suggest.

    But I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that they bought Euro women as slaves. That the Pope banned Jews from owning Christian slaves does not in anyway disprove the possibility. Arabs certainly did it. American blacks got their white admixture largely through slavery.

    And, anyway, women were frequently sold, even after the end of slavery. It is not PC, but it seems more likely than women “converting”, in a highly religious and patriarchal society.

    • Replies: @utu
    @songbird

    "That the Pope banned Jews from owning Christian slaves". - The fact that there were many bans against slavery issued by popes between 6th and 15th centuries shows that the bans were not effective. The profit was just too great. We can assume there were many ways to circumvent the bans.


    By the turn of the 6th to the 7th century, Jews had become the chief slave traders in Italy, and were active in Gallic territories. Pope Gregory the Great issued a ban on Jews possessing Christian slaves, lest the slaves convert to Judaism. By the 9th and 10th centuries, Jewish merchants, sometimes called Radhanites, were a major force in the slave trade continent-wide. - wiki
     
    It seems that local rulers in Central and Eastern Europe before and still long after adopting Christianity were quite happy to sell their subjects to slave traders.
  188. @angmoh
    Noah Smith and Scott Alexander are exchanging views views on Jewish immigration to the US, and the degree to which it was selective.

    Interesting stuff - but one thing caught my eye in Noah's latest post. The Sephardim are apparently almost as represented among elites as Ashkenazim are by this graph. Shouldn't this be surprising? My understanding was that they don't have the outlier IQ that Ashkenazim do.

    Unless Sephardim in the US ARE in fact selected, while Ashkenazim are not (clearly selective migration is a big part of the story for many groups in that graph - India and Iran being classic examples of countries getting brain drained).

    Replies: @Pericles, @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson

    Revilo P. Oliver wrote many years ago that Sephardim in America originated with elite urban mercantile populations from Amsterdam and London who arrived in colonial times, largely in connection with commerce.

    I have no idea if this is correct, but if it is then it would suggest that Sephardim were selected. Ashkenazim, other than a small number of elite Jews from Germany (e.g. Warburg, Kuhn, Loeb, etc.), quite obviously were not.

    It’s worth pointing out that the Confederate statesman Judah P. Benjamin was a Sephardic Jew. The first Jew of any prominence in America, Mordecai Noah, was also Sephardic.

    Oliver’s article which brought my attention this can be read here: http://www.revilo-oliver.com/news/1985/05/another-jewish-problem/

    • Thanks: angmoh
  189. @Bashibuzuk
    Some Hamas and Hizballah propaganda from Nature Communications:

    Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe. These results point to a significant role for the conversion of women in the formation of Ashkenazi communities, and provide the foundation for a detailed reconstruction of Ashkenazi genealogical history.
     
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543/figures/10

    Oy vey!

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543

    Replies: @songbird, @Dmitry

    This is an example of the historically typical pattern, until at least the late 19th century. Men were much more mobile than women, and travelling men have almost always married local women across history.

    However, strangely, in postindustrialized nationalities of the 21st century, we begin to see an inversion – that young women can seem to be more mobile than young men.

    In Russia, any of the wealthy glamorous cities of the country, are flooded with young internal immigrants, with a higher ratio of women. And higher ratios of young women than young men, are emigrating from the poor areas of the country.

    Within the EU, the same phenomenon – in the beginning, from Poland, for example, there were apparently two thirds young male to one third female emigrants, but in the last decade the majority are young women, and with higher average educational status than male emigrants.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Dmitry

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhanite

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Saint_Adalbert_of_Prague_pleads_with_Boleslaus_II%2C_Duke_of_Bohemia%2C_for_the_release_of_Christians_slaves_by_their_masters%2C_Jewish_merchants%2C_Gniezno_Door_ca._1170.png/1280px-thumbnail.png

    The same thing happened in the early Eastern Slav polities under Khazar domination. Khazaria itself was possibly a kind of Radhanite business project.

    Gumilyov described it in detail:

    http://www.tinlib.ru/istorija/zigzag_istorii/p11.php

    Replies: @Dmitry

  190. @Blinky Bill
    Union State is inevitable.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5ATRsAX0AAAVVd.jpg

    Replies: @Svevlad

    Stop it, the poor little butthurt belters have to do their nofap

  191. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dmitry

    When you have 15-20% of reproductive age people saying they are non-heterosexual at that point it will almost certainly start having an effect on fertility rates.

    Replies: @216, @Svevlad, @Dmitry

    Your sexual attraction to women or men is not determined by fashion trends, as I’m sure you noticed from your own life. These are quite inbuilt desires. The rate of the non-heterosexual desiring people will be constant; what changes is the attitude of the rest of the society to the people with minority desires.

    In Western Europe, there is a current fashion to use the sexual minorities for virtue signalling about the society’s tolerance, as the previous fashion had been to use ethnic minorities for this purpose – however, they may become more visible, the proportion of the people with non-heterosexual sexuality will be the same as always. Even in Islamist societies like Iran, it is a situation where they punish the visibility of sexual minorities, and it won’t likely effect their actual number.

    In the 20th century culture, it was common for homosexual men to marry women, and having children in order to reduce visibility of their minority status: e.g. Sviatoslav Richter, Vladimir Horowitz, John Maynard Keynes.

    But the behaviour of a small minority of homosexual men to reduce their visibility, will not effect fertility rates. And according to stable population theory, the population replacement is determined by women’s fertility.

    • Replies: @Wency
    @Dmitry


    Your sexual attraction to women or men is not determined by fashion trends, as I’m sure you noticed from your own life.
     
    The decision to have children *is* determined by fashion trends. It's a choice, and nowadays is largely decoupled from sex even among the low IQ.

    Western fashion presents a traditional heterosexual marriage with children as the most boring and white bread of all couples, while doubling down on the notion that having children is merely one lifestyle choice among many and not a social expectation. That is the part that impacts fertility.
    , @Boomthorkell
    @Dmitry

    Historical pederastry was a largely a fashion trend, as far as I can tell, considering it literally came in and out of fashion as societies determined the morality of buggering children as a form of "education" and pleasure.

    So, while "pure" homosexuals, etc. are rare, a society can certainly put its finger on the scales.

  192. @reiner Tor
    @Dmitry


    long-term safety
     
    Long term issues don’t just appear out of the blue. What happens is that the medicine in question causes short term (but not yet serious and thus unnoticed) complications which, over time, progress and become more serious. If you have a sufficient follow-up of a large enough sample, then you can tell the percentage of the barely noticeable issues which could later become more serious.

    That said, if someone had the choice of getting neither the vaccine nor the virus, I would advise to get neither. But on this planet this is not the choice. The choice is to get vaccinated or get infected. Well, the third option is staying home and not having a life forever. Impossible for many reasons, people who are not pensioners have to work, children have to go to school, etc.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Epidemics rise and fall exponentially. If the herd immunity to a virus is achieved within society, then your chance to be infected will rapidly become extremely low, regardless of your personal vaccination status.

    In countries where there is an effective vaccination rollout, with a sufficiently high proportion of the population being vaccinated, then the unvaccinated people will be “free rider” beneficiaries, and they will have an almost equally low risk of infection as the vaccinated people. It would be a waste of resources to vaccinate everyone, when a sufficient level of immunity is attained.

    Although it’s possible that herd immunity will not be attained in some countries. It’s possible that problems like anti-vaxx sentiment, might later on prevent a high enough vaccination rate, to stop a reservoir for the virus continuing to exist.

    I think about in Russia a situation where in the last decade, HIV became endemic at a low level (around 1% of the population). This was because of the lack of intervention to reduce infection rate among needle-sharing drug addicts (e.g. lack of providing adequate new needle supply and authorities’ inability following of anti-epidemic recommendations). Hopefully coronavirus will not become such an endemic illness, that resides in areas with insufficiently high vaccination rates, that will become a “reservoir” for future re-infections.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Dmitry


    herd immunity
     
    With R0 of 3.0 (Covid alpha variant) two thirds of the population needs to be vaccinated. The delta variant may have a significantly higher R0, like 5.0, in which case you need 80% vaccination rate. This includes children. The number gets higher still if you consider that some of the vaccinated people can still get ill (and thus infect others).

    I don’t think that high vaccination rates will be achieved. But I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Yellowface Anon

  193. @iffen
    @reiner Tor

    the previous elite rose back to the top. Which proves that they indeed were more talented.

    The people at the top are more talented and being at the top proves it.

    Seriously, there is are differences between being "talented" and have the talents to claw your way to the top.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Well at first they didn’t occupy positions of power, that came later. At first they were just acing entrance exams and similar. Getting jobs like scientists, engineers, doctors, academics, then of course lawyers and managers. Finally they found their way even to the Central Committee.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @reiner Tor

    At first they were just acing entrance exams and similar.

    God damnit! I absolutely love meritocracy.

  194. @Svevlad
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Yeah but it's mostly a meme, wait a little and you'll see that the numbers drop as one gets older, very few go with the alphabet mafia cringe all the way.

    On the other hand, it's better if most of those roaches doesn't reproduce. They'll infest their children with their bullshit. The pozz is de facto hereditary at this point.

    Replies: @Mitleser

    Yeah but it’s mostly a meme, wait a little and you’ll see that the numbers drop as one gets older, very few go with the alphabet mafia cringe all the way.

    It does not make much of a difference whether they remain LGBT+ or not if they still end up wasting their limited reproductive years.

    A woman’s best reproductive years are in her 20s. Fertility gradually declines in the 30s, particularly after age 35.

  195. @AnonfromTN
    @Dmitry

    Short term safety of Pfizer and Moderna is way lower than officially claimed. Quite a few cases of local paralysis, heart complications, and even deaths were reported despite suppression. FDA recently added heart issues to the official list.

    Importantly FDA approved Pfizer and Moderna for emergency use after Congress indemnified both companies

    Replies: @Jazman, @Dmitry

    Either way, the short-term safety of the vaccines is extremely high, especially when compared to many of the activities we do in daily life (like drinking alcohol, let alone smoking cigarettes – although at least those compensate us with enjoyment). Hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated and only a small minorities had any problems.

    We know these very unlikely to cause you a problem in the short-term.

    However, about the long-term effects, there isn’t information yet, so if you are not in high risk category it is sensible to delay or avoid being vaccinated.

    By the way, I know a postdoctoral scientist that works in the pharmaceutical industry, that is avoiding the vaccines on themselves. I’m not saying they are a representative sample – I had to laugh when I recognize such fellow overanxious and overprecautionary souls.

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon
  196. @Vishnugupta
    @reiner Tor

    RN unlike the Russian Navy is not designed to fight serious wars as a stand alone Navy but as a somewhat autonomous extension of the US Navy.

    Therefore if you look at a US Carrier fleet (the gold standard) as a benchmark for how a large carrier should be deployed you will find gaps in terms of lack of adequate number of Nuclear Submarine escorts and competent Air defence destroyers as the Type 45 has serious serviceability issues due to its unique and largely unsuccessful and failure prone WR21 marine turbines.

    But none of this matters as long as it is fighting under the NATO flag alongside the USN.

    Also because of NATO a much larger fraction of the RN can be deployed as an expeditionary force whereas a large portion of the Russian Navy is required to be deployed near home to defend its vast coastlines.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    That’s roughly what I wanted to say, but you described it better and put it in context. (NATO membership of the UK.)

    So the Royal Navy is not as capable in itself, but it would be unlikely to fight alone. (Except to protect the Falkland Islands it had to do so, but in general it’s unlikely.) The Russian navy doesn’t have modern carriers and even its destroyers might be obsolete, but it’s capable of protecting the vast coastline alone, without allies.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    @reiner Tor

    Thanks.Even the Falkland victory was due to US supplying it with AIM 9L missiles which for the first time allowed planes to fire IR guided missiles straight at the enemy as opposed to maneuvering behind and firing at the engine exhaust.

    All 19 AA kills were accounted to this missile without these the war would not be so one sided.

    Then there was help via signals and satellite intelligence on Argentine positions and pressuring France to reveal the radar frequency(export variants apparently didn't have selectable frequency or frequency hopping) of the exocet missiles so they could be jammed easily

  197. @Yellowface Anon
    @216

    There is basically no unified "America", or that has ever existed. At this point we're talking US statistics like the USSR (and I'm not talking about the inaccuracy)

    Audacious Epigone will fare a lot better if he can disaggregate poll data based on this map:
    https://miro.medium.com/max/1838/1*cWrZcapekHfj5aI0HeaWkg.jpeg

    Replies: @216, @SIMP simp, @RadicalCenter

    Interesting. Though I’d expect El Norte to extend hundreds of miles farther north than that, into central California, southern Nevada, the rest of Arizona and New Mexico, and Colorado most of the way up to Colorado Springs or so.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @RadicalCenter

    The map is certainly outdated given the demographic changes in these few years (esp. the movements out of Cali and NY that has only picked up speed after COVID lockdowns)

  198. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @BlackFlag

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Mongol_Empire_c.1207.png

    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis. Even though Karlin's island is an island of reason, I tend to forget that there are so many strange racialists and other weirdos here. Racialism is not always bad, but we wuz Mongols and Steppe Aryans is just disgusting larping, a signal of rootlessness and lack of authenticity.

    Many Tatars were later garrisoned to lands of Golden Horde, and after few centuries local Türks appropriated the name. There are literally dozens of such cases in history, original Bulgars were not Slavic, actually they were Volga Tatar, ha, ha too funny. Jalairs were originally Mongol tribe, but later rulers of Iraq, Franks were Germanic tribe, now they are French, and so on, and so on....

    "On the contrary, he doesn’t talk about the Cathays as being fair-skinned"

    I don't bother looking up, but I remember otherwise, that Polo called people of Cathay fair, but I'm not completely sure.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Bashibuzuk, @BlackFlag

    Borjigin.

    According to Rashid-al-Din Hamadani, many of the older Mongolian clans were founded by members of the Borjigin — Barlas, Urud, Manghud, Taichiut, Chonos, Kiyat, etc. The first Khan of the Mongol was Bodonchar Munkhag’s great-great-grandson Khaidu Khan. Khaidu’s grandsons Khabul Khan and Ambaghai Khan (founder of the Taichiut clan) succeeded him. Thereafter, Khabul’s sons, Hotula Khan and Yesugei, and Khabul’s grandson Temujin (Genghis Khan, son of Yesugei) ruled the Khamag Mongol. By the unification of the Mongols in 1206, virtually all of Temujin’s uncles and first cousins had died, and from then on only the descendants of Yesugei Baghatur, his brother Daritai, and nephew Onggur formed the Borjigid.

    According to Paul Pelliot and Louis Hambis, Rashid al-Din Hamadani once explained that “borčïqïn” designated in the Turkic languages a man with dark-blue eyes (اشهل‎, ašhal), and did so again without mentioning the said language, adding that Yesugei’s children and the majority of their own children had had such eyes per coincidence, also recalling that the genie which had impregnated Alan Gua after her husband’s death had had dark-blue eyes (“ašhal čašm”).[7] Abu al-Ghazi Bahadur later paraphrased Hamadani by relating that Yesugei’s eyes were dark-blue (“شهلا šahlā”), that the Mongols (“Moɣol”) called such eyes “borǰïɣïn” (بورجغن[14]), that his sons and most of their descendants had dark-blue eyes (“ašhal”), and that one recognized thus in Yesugei’s lineage the characteristic sign of the genie which had visited Alan Gua and had “borǰïɣïn” eyes.

    [MORE]

    Also:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenisei_Kyrgyz_Khaganate

    During the reign period of Kaiyuan of [emperor] Xuanzong, Ge Jiayun, composed A Record of the Western Regions, in which he said “the people of the Jiankun state all have red hair and green eyes. The ones with dark eyes were descendants of [the Chinese general] Li Ling [who was captured by the Xiongnu]… of Tiele tribe and called themselves Hegu. The change to Xiajiasi is probably because barbarian sounds are sometimes quick and sometimes slow so that the transcriptions of the words are not the same. When it is sometimes pronounced Xiajiasi, it is just that the word is quick. when I enquired from the translation clerk, he said that Xiajiasi had the meaning of ‘yellow head and red face’ and that this was what the Uighurs called them. Now the envoys say that they themselves have this name. I don’t know which is right.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenisei_Kyrgyz

    The Tashtyk culture was first surveyed by the Russian archaeologist Sergei Teploukhov.[3] Teploukhov suggested that it had been initially Indo-European dominated, only to become overcome by the Yenisei Kirghiz around the 3rd century AD.[3] The Yenisei Kirghiz are often associated with the Tashtyk culture.[4]

    Tashtyk settlements and hill-forts have been unearthed throughout the Yenisei region, particularly the Sayan canyon area. Their most imposing monuments were immense barrows-crypt structures; these have yielded large quantities of clay and metal vessels and ornaments. In addition, numerous petrographic carvings have been found. Some of the graves contained leather models of human bodies with their heads wrapped in tissue and brightly painted. Inside the models there were small leather bags probably symbolising the stomach and containing burned human bones. Scaled-down replicas of swords, arrows and quivers were placed nearby. The animal motifs of the Tashtyk belonged to the Scytho-Altaic style

    […]

    During his excavations of the Oglahty cemetery south of Minusinsk, Leonid Kyzlasov discovered a number of mummies with richly decorated plaster funerary masks showing Western Eurasian features, though this would not rule out some East Asian admixture, as revealed by ancient DNA (see below). There were also intact fur hats, silk clothes, and footwear (now in the Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashtyk_culture

    The relatively favorable climatic conditions of the Minusinsk Basin and the protection provided by the surrounding mountains have attracted human populations to this region since Paleolithic times. During the last several thousand years, in particular, the Minusinsk Basin has been continuously inhabited by a succession of populations whose cultures provide the single most spectacular archaeological continuum in all of North Asia. Starting with the late Neolithic (and still controversial) Tazmin culture (approximately 2000 to 2500 B.C. ) through the subsequent Afanas’evo, Okunevo, Andronovo, and Karasuk cultures, the Minusinsk Basin seems to have been inhabited by semisedentary agriculturalists and cattle breeders with an increasingly strong steppe-nomadic orientation. This development culminated in the late Bronze-Age Tagar culture (700 to 200 B.C. ), connected with the Scythian epoch of Central Eurasian history. According to paleoanthropological data, the Tagar people and most of their local predecessors seem to have had a predominantly Europoid complex of physical features. There then followed the Tashtyk culture (200 B.C. to A.D. 200), which corresponds to the Hunnic period in Central Eurasia and represents a major intrusion of a new Mongoloid population into the Minusinsk Basin.

    https://www.everyculture.com/Russia-Eurasia-China/Khakas-History-and-Cultural-Relations.html

    Also the White Huns were called White for a reason…

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated, how many times I keed to repeat this fact to you weirdo racialists. Heck there was a whole class of people in Mongol empire called Semu, meaning many coloured, because their eyes varied, most of those semu were Central Asian and Iranian Muslims, but no maybe they were just some white people who mysteriously disappeared. I'm being ironic here.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?


    Also the White Huns were called White for a reason…


     

    I must resist clicking troll button. If you would know anything about steppe culture, you would know that black and white have had always important spiritual meanings in Altaic Shamanism. White has connotations of spiritual purity, that's why Mongol emperors dressed in white robes, just like Сагаан үбгэн, old white man of legends , that's why Russian Czars were called white, or why White Tara is white, commoners were often called black, кара ор хар, our new year is сагаалзан, celebration of white moon. Man can have very dark features, but still called white if he possesses high spiritual qualities. Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honghuzi

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then? By your logic Chinese Manchurian border bandits were then gingers!

    Replies: @sher singh, @Bashibuzuk, @reiner Tor

    , @Wignat is a slur
    @Bashibuzuk

    I remember when I read about this, I encountered this hilarious site by a very angry Chinese accusing Rashid Al-Din of Jewish perfidy by lying about the Mongols' ethnicity to improve the reputation of the white race.

    https://goldenhordes.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/debunking-a-white-myth-genghis-khan-had-red-hair/

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  199. @reiner Tor
    @Vishnugupta

    That’s roughly what I wanted to say, but you described it better and put it in context. (NATO membership of the UK.)

    So the Royal Navy is not as capable in itself, but it would be unlikely to fight alone. (Except to protect the Falkland Islands it had to do so, but in general it’s unlikely.) The Russian navy doesn’t have modern carriers and even its destroyers might be obsolete, but it’s capable of protecting the vast coastline alone, without allies.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

    Thanks.Even the Falkland victory was due to US supplying it with AIM 9L missiles which for the first time allowed planes to fire IR guided missiles straight at the enemy as opposed to maneuvering behind and firing at the engine exhaust.

    All 19 AA kills were accounted to this missile without these the war would not be so one sided.

    Then there was help via signals and satellite intelligence on Argentine positions and pressuring France to reveal the radar frequency(export variants apparently didn’t have selectable frequency or frequency hopping) of the exocet missiles so they could be jammed easily

    • Thanks: AltanBakshi
  200. AP says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @AP

    To achieve such tanning in Nordic skin, you need to work for many years, all the time in beach, vacations and solarium, or whatever it's called in English. I think I know, I visit Sweden almost every year, and have quite many Swedish acquaintances.

    Phenotypically Swedes are quite different from Germans...not always but often.

    Replies: @AP, @songbird

    To achieve such tanning in Nordic skin, you need to work for many years, all the time in beach, vacations and solarium, or whatever it’s called in English. I think I know, I visit Sweden almost every year, and have quite many Swedish acquaintances.

    No, Swedes just tan naturally like that. Our Swedish poster Thorfinnson was writing about it once IIRC. Yes, if you stick a Swede who had been pale during the winter under a Thai sun on a December holiday he will burn. But a Swede in Sweden will be naturally tan in the summer if he spends time outside.

    This phenomenon is well-known:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/jul/03/thisweekssciencequestions4

    Why do fair-skinned Brits burn while Swedes (for example) tan?

    “Your Celtic phenotypes – Brits with pale skin, freckles, red hair – will burn and never tan,” says Mark Birch-Machin, reader in molecular dermatology at the University of Newcastle and a researcher for Cancer Research UK.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AP


    “Your Celtic phenotypes – Brits with pale skin, freckles, red hair – will burn and never tan,” says Mark Birch-Machin, reader in molecular dermatology at the University of Newcastle and a researcher for Cancer Research UK.
     
    I have mentioned it once before, but I believe that this phenotype had probably evolved under low sunlight/heavy cloud conditions of the Mesolithic Doggerland:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland

    This is probably where the European leucoderm phenotype came from to be later incorporated into the Corded Ware Culture and Bell Beaker Culture which were both derived from South Siberian mesolithic populations descended from the Y haplogroup R and in their earliest form probably looked like Amerinds.

    As Yamnaya-derived and (proto)Corded Ware populations migrated into Europe, they probably intermixed with the local Doggerland derived populations and ended up looking like the Central European populations look today. Same thing possibly happened in Fenno-Scandia too. Those populations that had the least admixture kept the most recessive phenotype, that would be Insular Celts.
    , @reiner Tor
    @AP

    Redhead here. I have always burned very quickly. Like an hour in May late afternoon (around 6 pm) led to a horrible sunburn with peeling.

    In recent years I started a program of making myself more resilient to cold. So I went to a cold lake in February to swim a couple minutes etc. This gave me the idea of sunbathing in the winter. Then gradually in the summer. I always do that around noon, but originally limited to ten, later twenty minutes. Now I can spend under the sun an hour shirtless and at least a couple hours in a T-shirt. But I have to admit that I don’t tan nearly as much as that tanning blond type you described. Still I wonder what would be possible if I didn’t have to spend my life in an office in front of a computer screen. Sunbathing at noon enormously improves mood.

    Replies: @iffen, @Dmitry, @Svevlad

    , @AltanBakshi
    @AP

    Guardian, eh? This is quote from the link you posted:
    "But Birch-Machin is dubious about races such as the Swedes having any real advantage over us in the tanning stakes."


    https://www.thelocal.se/20110706/34764/?amp

    Every year 2,800 people in Sweden are diagnosed with malignant melanoma, now one of the most common forms of cancer in Sweden, according to a report by Sveriges Radio (SR). Despite this, Swedes continue to use the least sun protection and suffer most sun damage of all nationalities.
    “We love the sun, we have long and cold winters, and as soon as we get our vacation, we Swedes want to make the most of every minute of our sun, which our skin can’t handle,” said Ingrid Synnerstad, associate professor in skin disease and chief physician at the dermatology clinic at Linköping University Hospital, to SR.
     

    You really are wrong, it's just that modern Swedes, especially many young women, are obsessed with sunbathing, thus with dedication and work you can get even Swedish skin tanned.

    Replies: @AP

  201. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    To achieve such tanning in Nordic skin, you need to work for many years, all the time in beach, vacations and solarium, or whatever it’s called in English. I think I know, I visit Sweden almost every year, and have quite many Swedish acquaintances.
     
    No, Swedes just tan naturally like that. Our Swedish poster Thorfinnson was writing about it once IIRC. Yes, if you stick a Swede who had been pale during the winter under a Thai sun on a December holiday he will burn. But a Swede in Sweden will be naturally tan in the summer if he spends time outside.

    This phenomenon is well-known:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/jul/03/thisweekssciencequestions4

    Why do fair-skinned Brits burn while Swedes (for example) tan?

    "Your Celtic phenotypes - Brits with pale skin, freckles, red hair - will burn and never tan," says Mark Birch-Machin, reader in molecular dermatology at the University of Newcastle and a researcher for Cancer Research UK.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @reiner Tor, @AltanBakshi

    “Your Celtic phenotypes – Brits with pale skin, freckles, red hair – will burn and never tan,” says Mark Birch-Machin, reader in molecular dermatology at the University of Newcastle and a researcher for Cancer Research UK.

    I have mentioned it once before, but I believe that this phenotype had probably evolved under low sunlight/heavy cloud conditions of the Mesolithic Doggerland:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland

    This is probably where the European leucoderm phenotype came from to be later incorporated into the Corded Ware Culture and Bell Beaker Culture which were both derived from South Siberian mesolithic populations descended from the Y haplogroup R and in their earliest form probably looked like Amerinds.

    As Yamnaya-derived and (proto)Corded Ware populations migrated into Europe, they probably intermixed with the local Doggerland derived populations and ended up looking like the Central European populations look today. Same thing possibly happened in Fenno-Scandia too. Those populations that had the least admixture kept the most recessive phenotype, that would be Insular Celts.

  202. @Beckow
    @reiner Tor

    To summarize your point:

    "Yes, pre-communism 75% of people were barred from higher education. But it is ok, they were stupid. As you say, most had no talent. Let's only focus on the upper-class twits who really wanted to be art historians and the damn commies kept them from living their dreams. After 1956 they ended up driving taxis in NY and endlessly told gullible Americans about this horrible injustice."

    Am I getting it right? Should we try some nuance? Czechoslovakia was different, fewer members of the defined enemy groups - most people were some sort of socialist by 1945. We also had a large skilled working class with enough talent for higher education.

    The Academy on 2009 did a long-term study of high achievers from engineering to music, from medicine to science, and about 87% of the high achievers were fully or partially from groups that were before communism barred from higher education. The overall numbers were shockingly one-sided. Maybe we got rid of the previous elites more successfully, it was partially an ethnic issue.

    I have literally never heard of a single person barred from studying medicine, science or engineering. Law or humanities were a different story as is the case everywhere. There is an easy test, when BoJo hires Julian Assange as his spokesman,the West will have something. Until then, it is empty uninformed talk.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    You are an idiot if you believe that 75% of people were “barred” from education. Poor people usually pressured their children to start working early, but this phenomenon persisted well into communism. On the other hand, there was a serious effort to get the smartest children educated, priests and local teachers tried everything in their power to send the children to better schools and let their talents grow.

    An interesting story is Károly Simonyi. He was a relative of the prime minister who signed the Treaty of Trianon (he was a lawyer, but also a representative of the Smallholders’ Party, and became prime minister because no one else was willing to sign the treaty), but his parents were middling peasants, and it took some effort from the local priest (he searched for a better off relative who could help him study and found the former prime minister) to help him. He graduated as an engineer and a lawyer at the same time. After the war he could work as a physicist, but then because of his (very modest) participation in the 1956 revolution, he was sidelined. Finally this made it possible for him to write an award winning book in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He isn’t really a descendant of the pre-war elite, but perhaps he’s related to the pre-war middle class. His son is Charles Simonyi, who left the country in the 1960s.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @reiner Tor

    Let's see your argument: poor people are stupid, they actually never wanted to go to university, but to work early. I suppose you even know their motivations, why not, they are stupid after all. But there were some lucky ones who through priests and connections managed anyway - a miracle!

    (I said above: don’t tell us about charity scholarships, I am not into lottery systems. But I guess you couldn't resist, it betrays the poverty of your position.)

    Oh, and let's not forget that and I am an "idiot" because I don't see the fake commies-kept-me-from university argument the same as you. No wonder we can't function in the same country, we don't share even minimum context. I still think Orban is a cool dude. As long as he stays south of Danube. But it is simply a fact that about 75% kids pre-communism were effectively kept from higher education - they had no money for it and only a tiny insignificant % got mentors. That is what really bothers you - the fact that history is not what you would like to preach, that it was quite ugly and commies were a reaction to it. So you lie to yourself.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  203. @Dmitry
    @reiner Tor

    Epidemics rise and fall exponentially. If the herd immunity to a virus is achieved within society, then your chance to be infected will rapidly become extremely low, regardless of your personal vaccination status.

    In countries where there is an effective vaccination rollout, with a sufficiently high proportion of the population being vaccinated, then the unvaccinated people will be "free rider" beneficiaries, and they will have an almost equally low risk of infection as the vaccinated people. It would be a waste of resources to vaccinate everyone, when a sufficient level of immunity is attained.

    Although it's possible that herd immunity will not be attained in some countries. It's possible that problems like anti-vaxx sentiment, might later on prevent a high enough vaccination rate, to stop a reservoir for the virus continuing to exist.

    I think about in Russia a situation where in the last decade, HIV became endemic at a low level (around 1% of the population). This was because of the lack of intervention to reduce infection rate among needle-sharing drug addicts (e.g. lack of providing adequate new needle supply and authorities' inability following of anti-epidemic recommendations). Hopefully coronavirus will not become such an endemic illness, that resides in areas with insufficiently high vaccination rates, that will become a "reservoir" for future re-infections.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    herd immunity

    With R0 of 3.0 (Covid alpha variant) two thirds of the population needs to be vaccinated. The delta variant may have a significantly higher R0, like 5.0, in which case you need 80% vaccination rate. This includes children. The number gets higher still if you consider that some of the vaccinated people can still get ill (and thus infect others).

    I don’t think that high vaccination rates will be achieved. But I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @reiner Tor

    Purpose of the mass vaccination of the population is to prevent the movement of the virus through the population, not to protect you as a particular individual - but in this process it will protect you as an individual, regardless of whether you are vaccinated or not.

    We can see that chances of being infected becomes extremely low in countries where the epidemic is under control, and the current evidence is that vaccination is allowing epidemic to be controllable in those countries which have had early vaccine rollouts of Western vaccines (although Chinese vaccines seem to be failing https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/business/economy/china-vaccines-covid-outbreak.html).

    For example, in Israel, after 55% of people have been vaccinated with Pfizer - only 0,4% of coronavirus test results which targets symptomatic people, are currently positive, with over 40,000 tests of symptomatic people per day.

    45% of the Israeli population is still unvaccinated, but they are currently "free riders" on the control of the epidemic provided by the vaccinated 55% population.

    In such a situation (which should soon be attained in multiple developed countries with effective vaccine rollouts), there is a low chance of being personally infected, let alone suffering serious problems.

    In the rolling 7 day average, number of people having active serious coronavirus cases at the moment in Israel (again, with 55% of the population vaccinated) is 0,00026%. which seems to be around 8 times lower rate than the number of people with penis cancer - a rare disease. Of course, this is level not static and can increase exponentially - but this is an indication of what other countries will see as more than half of their population becomes vaccinated.

    https://i.imgur.com/0bd3nVf.jpg


    I don’t think that high vaccination rates will be achieved. But I wish you good luck in your gas masks.
     
    A year late to have prevented the pandemic, media finally admit it can reduce infections by 100%, even in the most dangerous circumstances of treating seriously ill infected patients. Here is reported by the BBC today: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57636360

    "The quality of face masks healthcare workers wear makes a huge difference to their risk of coronavirus infection, Cambridge University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust research has found.

    Wearing a high grade mask known as an FFP3 can provide up to 100% protection.

    By contrast, there is a far greater chance of staff wearing standard issue surgical masks catching the virus..

    The study found that staff caring for Covid patients on "red" wards faced a risk that was up to 47 times higher than those on "green" or non-Covid wards. So as the second wave of the pandemic started to hit last December, managers in Cambridge made a local decision to upgrade the protection on red wards.

    "The only thing left to try that could make a difference was FFP3 respirators, and they did," Dr Ferris said.

    In the weeks following this move, the rate of infections among healthcare workers on red wards dropped spectacularly, quickly falling to the level experienced by staff on green wards where there were no Covid patients.

    The study concludes that "cases attributed to ward-based exposure fell significantly, with FFP3 respirators providing 31-100% protection (and most likely 100%) against infection from patients with Covid-19"."

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @reiner Tor


    I don’t think that high vaccination rates will be achieved.
     
    Definitely!

    (Politically speaking) even when they profess to the goal of 80-90% vaccination rate, medical institutions are secretly expecting for a large antivaxx contingent, as the enemy in the narrative of "disease control" and eventually setting up segregated governance.
  204. @AltanBakshi
    @AP

    To achieve such tanning in Nordic skin, you need to work for many years, all the time in beach, vacations and solarium, or whatever it's called in English. I think I know, I visit Sweden almost every year, and have quite many Swedish acquaintances.

    Phenotypically Swedes are quite different from Germans...not always but often.

    Replies: @AP, @songbird

    Germanics (perhaps Northern Slavs too?) who start out pale, tend to tan quite easily, from my perspective. They can often become quite brown and quite resistant to the sun. In my experience, you have to explain to them why you are sitting in the shade, and they still have trouble grasping it.

    I, who am ethnic Irish, without sunblock, need TOTAL shade, not spotty shade, even in Northern Germany. I cannot develop resistance to the sun. My skin is so pale that it is almost literally be blinding when at the beach.

    The sun worship typical in the West has always been a great mystery to me. In particular, I think paler women are more beautiful, and think tanning makes women less beautiful. There is a line from an Irish song: her neck, it was just like a swan’s.

    At times, I’ve suspected sun-worship might be an incipient form of black worship. I find it curious how it does not seem to exist outside the West. But perhaps, it just seems alien and wrong to me because it is Germanic.

    Yet, it doesn’t seem to be a historical thing.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi, Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @songbird

    Tanning was made fashionable by Coco Chanel in 1920s, before that ivory skin was the standard of beauty in Europe. Once again we can thank the French for the modern degeneracy. Like liberalism and jacobinism were not enough?!

    Replies: @songbird

  205. @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    To achieve such tanning in Nordic skin, you need to work for many years, all the time in beach, vacations and solarium, or whatever it’s called in English. I think I know, I visit Sweden almost every year, and have quite many Swedish acquaintances.
     
    No, Swedes just tan naturally like that. Our Swedish poster Thorfinnson was writing about it once IIRC. Yes, if you stick a Swede who had been pale during the winter under a Thai sun on a December holiday he will burn. But a Swede in Sweden will be naturally tan in the summer if he spends time outside.

    This phenomenon is well-known:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/jul/03/thisweekssciencequestions4

    Why do fair-skinned Brits burn while Swedes (for example) tan?

    "Your Celtic phenotypes - Brits with pale skin, freckles, red hair - will burn and never tan," says Mark Birch-Machin, reader in molecular dermatology at the University of Newcastle and a researcher for Cancer Research UK.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @reiner Tor, @AltanBakshi

    Redhead here. I have always burned very quickly. Like an hour in May late afternoon (around 6 pm) led to a horrible sunburn with peeling.

    In recent years I started a program of making myself more resilient to cold. So I went to a cold lake in February to swim a couple minutes etc. This gave me the idea of sunbathing in the winter. Then gradually in the summer. I always do that around noon, but originally limited to ten, later twenty minutes. Now I can spend under the sun an hour shirtless and at least a couple hours in a T-shirt. But I have to admit that I don’t tan nearly as much as that tanning blond type you described. Still I wonder what would be possible if I didn’t have to spend my life in an office in front of a computer screen. Sunbathing at noon enormously improves mood.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @reiner Tor

    R. T., exposure to the sun increases your odds of having skin cancers. Tanning just allows you to do more damage and multiply the risks.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson

    , @Dmitry
    @reiner Tor

    Yes there might be a change of thinking about this, and there are appearing some kind of indications that sun tans could be healthy for you despite the skin cancer risks, and beyond just vitamin D.

    Is Sunscreen the New Margarine?

    Yet vitamin D supplementation has failed spectacularly in clinical trials. Five years ago, researchers were already warning that it showed zero benefit, and the evidence has only grown stronger. In November, one of the largest and most rigorous trials of the vitamin ever conducted—in which 25,871 participants received high doses for five years—found no impact on cancer, heart disease, or stroke.

    How did we get it so wrong? How could people with low vitamin D levels clearly suffer higher rates of so many diseases and yet not be helped by supplementation?

    These rebels argue that what made the people with high vitamin D levels so healthy was not the vitamin itself. That was just a marker. Their vitamin D levels were high because they were getting plenty of exposure to the thing that was really responsible for their good health—that big orange ball shining down from above.


    Lindqvist tracked the sunbathing habits of nearly 30,000 women in Sweden over 20 years. Originally, he was studying blood clots, which he found occurred less frequently in women who spent more time in the sun—and less frequently during the summer. Lindqvist looked at diabetes next. Sure enough, the sun worshippers had much lower rates. Melanoma? True, the sun worshippers had a higher incidence of it—but they were eight times less likely to die from it.

    So Lindqvist decided to look at overall mortality rates, and the results were shocking. Over the 20 years of the study, sun avoiders were twice as likely to die as sun worshippers.
     

    https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science#close

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @Svevlad
    @reiner Tor

    See, that's how the "ghost-whites" tan. It needs to be gradual to be activated, but when it is

    On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend it. You see how whites who live in deserts and sunny places look like. Their skin ages real quickly

  206. @reiner Tor
    @Beckow

    You are an idiot if you believe that 75% of people were “barred” from education. Poor people usually pressured their children to start working early, but this phenomenon persisted well into communism. On the other hand, there was a serious effort to get the smartest children educated, priests and local teachers tried everything in their power to send the children to better schools and let their talents grow.

    An interesting story is Károly Simonyi. He was a relative of the prime minister who signed the Treaty of Trianon (he was a lawyer, but also a representative of the Smallholders’ Party, and became prime minister because no one else was willing to sign the treaty), but his parents were middling peasants, and it took some effort from the local priest (he searched for a better off relative who could help him study and found the former prime minister) to help him. He graduated as an engineer and a lawyer at the same time. After the war he could work as a physicist, but then because of his (very modest) participation in the 1956 revolution, he was sidelined. Finally this made it possible for him to write an award winning book in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He isn’t really a descendant of the pre-war elite, but perhaps he’s related to the pre-war middle class. His son is Charles Simonyi, who left the country in the 1960s.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Let’s see your argument: poor people are stupid, they actually never wanted to go to university, but to work early. I suppose you even know their motivations, why not, they are stupid after all. But there were some lucky ones who through priests and connections managed anyway – a miracle!

    (I said above: don’t tell us about charity scholarships, I am not into lottery systems. But I guess you couldn’t resist, it betrays the poverty of your position.)

    Oh, and let’s not forget that and I am an “idiot” because I don’t see the fake commies-kept-me-from university argument the same as you. No wonder we can’t function in the same country, we don’t share even minimum context. I still think Orban is a cool dude. As long as he stays south of Danube. But it is simply a fact that about 75% kids pre-communism were effectively kept from higher education – they had no money for it and only a tiny insignificant % got mentors. That is what really bothers you – the fact that history is not what you would like to preach, that it was quite ugly and commies were a reaction to it. So you lie to yourself.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Beckow


    poor people are stupid, they actually never wanted to go to university, but to work early
     
    They wanted to work early because they couldn’t afford to keep their children in school until age 22, it was much cheaper for them to have them work at age 10 or 12 instead. Most people didn’t have much money, the reason being a very low level of economic activity a hundred yards ago, Germany then was poorer than Tunesia today, and it was richer than most countries to the east and southeast of it.

    I can see you are going to blame earlier regimes for not being as rich as 21st century economies.


    75% kids pre-communism were effectively kept from higher education
     
    In Hungary there was considerable effort to get peasant children to higher education, as a part of the effort to prove Hungarian cultural superiority over our neighbors. They also tried to ensure the loyalty of the lower classes to avoid another revolution. This didn’t work well, because the peasant children (despite considerable selection efforts) had much higher rates of failure than sons of the middle and upper classes. Part of the story must’ve been nutritional deficiencies, some the result of general poverty, and some the result of the famine during the First World War. But part of the story was no doubt genetics. Yes, a lot of talented people never got to higher education (even from the upper classes, since so few people went to university anyway), but that’s not the same as saying that they were “barred” from higher education. The economy kept improving as a result of technological development, and no doubt would’ve continued regardless of political system. Communism obviously slowed that down, but on the other hand achieved better enrollment than capitalist countries with the same economic development level. Overall people would prefer material wealth over poverty with the same level of higher education enrollment.

    Replies: @iffen, @Beckow

  207. @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail

    This fellow had "that look",and considered himself to be a Ukrainian. The "Svidomite" brand for sure:

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/ukraine/600a9e264705d1.43106415-180.jpg

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/ukraine/600a9e266e5cf7.37409703-180.jpg

    Tatar, Belorusian, Polish? Ahatanhel Krymsky considered himself a Ukrainian as quoted on this new commemorative coin. He chose this appellation "consciously" making him technically a "Svidomite Ukrainian". :-)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    I’ll be rooting for Ukraine against England in recognition of the non-svido factor on the Ukrainian team.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail

    https://www.macombdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/AP21180788636656.jpg?w=868

    Ukraine beats Sweden late in the game!

    Mickey, you'll be sad to learn that many millions of "Svidos" will be joining you as you root. The trident was worn proudly today...I'd say that #6 looks more than a bit "Turano-Turkic" to my eyes.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AnonfromTN

  208. @Mikhail
    @Mr. Hack

    I'll be rooting for Ukraine against England in recognition of the non-svido factor on the Ukrainian team.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack


    Ukraine beats Sweden late in the game!

    Mickey, you’ll be sad to learn that many millions of “Svidos” will be joining you as you root. The trident was worn proudly today…I’d say that #6 looks more than a bit “Turano-Turkic” to my eyes.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Mr. Hack

    See:

    https://twitter.com/27khv/status/1409958555491483649

    Are you sad that many Russians and Ukrainians who aren't svido will be rooting for Ukraine?

    Better late than never, this chap is saying the same things I did awhile back:

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/skeptics/why-ukraine-dangerous-and-unworthy-ally-188742

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack

    A fly in svido ointment: hysterical svido Nitsoy (self- appointment children's writer) has already attacked the guy who scored for speaking Russian at the press conference. Madhouse inmates stay true to form.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  209. @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail

    https://www.macombdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/AP21180788636656.jpg?w=868

    Ukraine beats Sweden late in the game!

    Mickey, you'll be sad to learn that many millions of "Svidos" will be joining you as you root. The trident was worn proudly today...I'd say that #6 looks more than a bit "Turano-Turkic" to my eyes.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AnonfromTN

    See:

    Are you sad that many Russians and Ukrainians who aren’t svido will be rooting for Ukraine?

    Better late than never, this chap is saying the same things I did awhile back:

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/skeptics/why-ukraine-dangerous-and-unworthy-ally-188742

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Mikhail

    There are quite a few such Russians.

    Russians are not generally obsessed with Ukraine in the way that (specifically svidomy) Ukrainians are obsessed with Russia.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

  210. @AltanBakshi
    @BlackFlag

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Mongol_Empire_c.1207.png

    Original Tatars were very Asian looking and very closely related with Mongols, already long before the time of Chingghis. Even though Karlin's island is an island of reason, I tend to forget that there are so many strange racialists and other weirdos here. Racialism is not always bad, but we wuz Mongols and Steppe Aryans is just disgusting larping, a signal of rootlessness and lack of authenticity.

    Many Tatars were later garrisoned to lands of Golden Horde, and after few centuries local Türks appropriated the name. There are literally dozens of such cases in history, original Bulgars were not Slavic, actually they were Volga Tatar, ha, ha too funny. Jalairs were originally Mongol tribe, but later rulers of Iraq, Franks were Germanic tribe, now they are French, and so on, and so on....

    "On the contrary, he doesn’t talk about the Cathays as being fair-skinned"

    I don't bother looking up, but I remember otherwise, that Polo called people of Cathay fair, but I'm not completely sure.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Bashibuzuk, @BlackFlag

    The Tartar back then being very different from the Tartars today would explain it.

    I don’t bother looking up, but I remember otherwise, that Polo called people of Cathay fair, but I’m not completely sure.

    I guess you are right.

    They are inclined to be fat, and their noses are small. Their hair is black, and they have scarcely any beard, or only a few scattered hairs on the chin. The women of the superior class are in a manner free from superfluous hairs; their skins are fair, and they are well formed.

    In one story, he talks about how the Cathaians in a city rose up in a plot to kill all foreigners, which included the Tartars, Saracens, and Christians. Since all these foreigners had beards while the Cathaians naturally did not, the plan was to kill all bearded men. But when you look at Mongols nowadays, they don’t have much heavier beards than Chinese. They look like North Chinese but stockier. Maybe at the time they were more Central Asian looking and during the past centuries they’ve absorbed more Chinese blood. https://il6.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/5068643/thumb/1.jpg?i10c=img.resize(height:160)

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @BlackFlag


    But when you look at Mongols nowadays, they don’t have much heavier beards than Chinese.
     
    I would say amongst continental E. Asians, northern/central Hans have the most facial hair...but most don't grow it out, and I believe PLA mandates shaving

    Ming emperor Xuanzong, ancestry Anhui (north-central)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuande_Emperor#/media/File:Portrait_assis_de_l'empereur_Ming_Xuanzong.jpg

    Overall for orientals, Japanese takes the cake

    Tōgō Heihachirō and Nogi Maresuke
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhuvWXZVoAA3BlZ.jpg

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  211. @reiner Tor
    @iffen

    Well at first they didn’t occupy positions of power, that came later. At first they were just acing entrance exams and similar. Getting jobs like scientists, engineers, doctors, academics, then of course lawyers and managers. Finally they found their way even to the Central Committee.

    Replies: @iffen

    At first they were just acing entrance exams and similar.

    God damnit! I absolutely love meritocracy.

  212. @reiner Tor
    @AP

    Redhead here. I have always burned very quickly. Like an hour in May late afternoon (around 6 pm) led to a horrible sunburn with peeling.

    In recent years I started a program of making myself more resilient to cold. So I went to a cold lake in February to swim a couple minutes etc. This gave me the idea of sunbathing in the winter. Then gradually in the summer. I always do that around noon, but originally limited to ten, later twenty minutes. Now I can spend under the sun an hour shirtless and at least a couple hours in a T-shirt. But I have to admit that I don’t tan nearly as much as that tanning blond type you described. Still I wonder what would be possible if I didn’t have to spend my life in an office in front of a computer screen. Sunbathing at noon enormously improves mood.

    Replies: @iffen, @Dmitry, @Svevlad

    R. T., exposure to the sun increases your odds of having skin cancers. Tanning just allows you to do more damage and multiply the risks.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @iffen

    I used to have some resources on it, but overall that’s an oversimplification. Sunlight is good for you in moderation, which means quantities not yet causing sunburn.

    , @Thorfinnsson
    @iffen

    You need to eat to live, but you wouldn't blame obesity on the existence of spoons.

    Exercise is essential to optimum health, mood, and body composition. Yet overtraining causes injury and chronic inflammation.

    I think you see where this is going.

    Moderate sun exposure is good for health and mood, and it's not just about vitamin D synthesis. Sun exposure is bacteriocidal, mitigates many skin conditions, upregulates endogenous nitric oxide production (and thus enhances bloodflow with the concomitant improvements in immune response, athletic performance, blood pressure, etc.), increases serotonin levels, increases white blood cell count, and more. There's a reason people are hard-wired to enjoy the sun.

    Excessive sun exposure of course produces tissue damage, and of course chronic damage accumulation of any kind is ultimately carcinogenic. Fortunately your body has a built in response to stop you from getting excess sun exposure in the form of burning.

    Skin cancer does not occur in vitro, and as with other cancers rates have radically increased in the past century as our environment has become far more carcinogenic. As industrial seed oils have largely replaced animal fats and fruit oils in the diet, the adipose tissue in modern humans is far more composed of unstable polyunsaturated fatty acids which much more rapidly oxidize in the presence of UVA radiation and induce tissue damage. Additionally, many modern chemical sun screens block UVB radiation (the kind which tans and burns you) while admitting UVA (the kind that causes tissue damage).

    The bottom line is you should definitely seek out the sun, but you should avoid burning. And, as always, you should not be consuming industrial seed oils.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  213. @Mikhail
    @Mr. Hack

    See:

    https://twitter.com/27khv/status/1409958555491483649

    Are you sad that many Russians and Ukrainians who aren't svido will be rooting for Ukraine?

    Better late than never, this chap is saying the same things I did awhile back:

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/skeptics/why-ukraine-dangerous-and-unworthy-ally-188742

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    There are quite a few such Russians.

    Russians are not generally obsessed with Ukraine in the way that (specifically svidomy) Ukrainians are obsessed with Russia.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Russians haven't been invaded by little green men from Ukraine. Haven't had chunks of their country ripped off by Ukrainian Svidos because they have "misbehaved". There are good reasons why Ukrainians, of all political stripes, are "obsessed" (concerned would be more accurate) with Russia.

    Replies: @Aedib

    , @Mikhail
    @Anatoly Karlin


    There are quite a few such Russians.

    Russians are not generally obsessed with Ukraine in the way that (specifically svidomy) Ukrainians are obsessed with Russia.

     

    In a rivalry (real and imagined), the smaller group tends to be the more obsessive. Reminded of the situations in NY and Boston concerning the Red Sox and Yankees - especially in the years prior to the Red Sox becoming a powerhouse with four World Series titles in this century.

    I've run into my share of Ukes in the US who've a pro-Russian outlook and detest the svidos.

    During the Sweden-Ukraine game in Glasgow, I heard a chant that sounded like Rossiya! I recall such in the last UEFA tournament when Ukraine played in Donetsk.
  214. @BlackFlag
    @AltanBakshi

    The Tartar back then being very different from the Tartars today would explain it.


    I don’t bother looking up, but I remember otherwise, that Polo called people of Cathay fair, but I’m not completely sure.
     
    I guess you are right.

    They are inclined to be fat, and their noses are small. Their hair is black, and they have scarcely any beard, or only a few scattered hairs on the chin. The women of the superior class are in a manner free from superfluous hairs; their skins are fair, and they are well formed.
     
    In one story, he talks about how the Cathaians in a city rose up in a plot to kill all foreigners, which included the Tartars, Saracens, and Christians. Since all these foreigners had beards while the Cathaians naturally did not, the plan was to kill all bearded men. But when you look at Mongols nowadays, they don't have much heavier beards than Chinese. They look like North Chinese but stockier. Maybe at the time they were more Central Asian looking and during the past centuries they've absorbed more Chinese blood.
    http://asiasociety.org/files/130711_naadamfestival8.jpg
    https://il6.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/5068643/thumb/1.jpg?i10c=img.resize(height:160)

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    But when you look at Mongols nowadays, they don’t have much heavier beards than Chinese.

    I would say amongst continental E. Asians, northern/central Hans have the most facial hair…but most don’t grow it out, and I believe PLA mandates shaving

    Ming emperor Xuanzong, ancestry Anhui (north-central)

    Overall for orientals, Japanese takes the cake

    Tōgō Heihachirō and Nogi Maresuke

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Jomon ancestry.

    https://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ainu.jpg

  215. @reiner Tor
    @Dmitry


    herd immunity
     
    With R0 of 3.0 (Covid alpha variant) two thirds of the population needs to be vaccinated. The delta variant may have a significantly higher R0, like 5.0, in which case you need 80% vaccination rate. This includes children. The number gets higher still if you consider that some of the vaccinated people can still get ill (and thus infect others).

    I don’t think that high vaccination rates will be achieved. But I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Yellowface Anon

    Purpose of the mass vaccination of the population is to prevent the movement of the virus through the population, not to protect you as a particular individual – but in this process it will protect you as an individual, regardless of whether you are vaccinated or not.

    We can see that chances of being infected becomes extremely low in countries where the epidemic is under control, and the current evidence is that vaccination is allowing epidemic to be controllable in those countries which have had early vaccine rollouts of Western vaccines (although Chinese vaccines seem to be failing https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/business/economy/china-vaccines-covid-outbreak.html).

    For example, in Israel, after 55% of people have been vaccinated with Pfizer – only 0,4% of coronavirus test results which targets symptomatic people, are currently positive, with over 40,000 tests of symptomatic people per day.

    45% of the Israeli population is still unvaccinated, but they are currently “free riders” on the control of the epidemic provided by the vaccinated 55% population.

    In such a situation (which should soon be attained in multiple developed countries with effective vaccine rollouts), there is a low chance of being personally infected, let alone suffering serious problems.

    In the rolling 7 day average, number of people having active serious coronavirus cases at the moment in Israel (again, with 55% of the population vaccinated) is 0,00026%. which seems to be around 8 times lower rate than the number of people with penis cancer – a rare disease. Of course, this is level not static and can increase exponentially – but this is an indication of what other countries will see as more than half of their population becomes vaccinated.

    I don’t think that high vaccination rates will be achieved. But I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

    A year late to have prevented the pandemic, media finally admit it can reduce infections by 100%, even in the most dangerous circumstances of treating seriously ill infected patients. Here is reported by the BBC today: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57636360

    “The quality of face masks healthcare workers wear makes a huge difference to their risk of coronavirus infection, Cambridge University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust research has found.

    Wearing a high grade mask known as an FFP3 can provide up to 100% protection.

    By contrast, there is a far greater chance of staff wearing standard issue surgical masks catching the virus..

    The study found that staff caring for Covid patients on “red” wards faced a risk that was up to 47 times higher than those on “green” or non-Covid wards. So as the second wave of the pandemic started to hit last December, managers in Cambridge made a local decision to upgrade the protection on red wards.

    “The only thing left to try that could make a difference was FFP3 respirators, and they did,” Dr Ferris said.

    In the weeks following this move, the rate of infections among healthcare workers on red wards dropped spectacularly, quickly falling to the level experienced by staff on green wards where there were no Covid patients.

    The study concludes that “cases attributed to ward-based exposure fell significantly, with FFP3 respirators providing 31-100% protection (and most likely 100%) against infection from patients with Covid-19″.”

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Dmitry


    Wearing a high grade mask
     
    Like I said, I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  216. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @BlackFlag


    But when you look at Mongols nowadays, they don’t have much heavier beards than Chinese.
     
    I would say amongst continental E. Asians, northern/central Hans have the most facial hair...but most don't grow it out, and I believe PLA mandates shaving

    Ming emperor Xuanzong, ancestry Anhui (north-central)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuande_Emperor#/media/File:Portrait_assis_de_l'empereur_Ming_Xuanzong.jpg

    Overall for orientals, Japanese takes the cake

    Tōgō Heihachirō and Nogi Maresuke
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhuvWXZVoAA3BlZ.jpg

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Jomon ancestry.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  217. @reiner Tor
    @AP

    Redhead here. I have always burned very quickly. Like an hour in May late afternoon (around 6 pm) led to a horrible sunburn with peeling.

    In recent years I started a program of making myself more resilient to cold. So I went to a cold lake in February to swim a couple minutes etc. This gave me the idea of sunbathing in the winter. Then gradually in the summer. I always do that around noon, but originally limited to ten, later twenty minutes. Now I can spend under the sun an hour shirtless and at least a couple hours in a T-shirt. But I have to admit that I don’t tan nearly as much as that tanning blond type you described. Still I wonder what would be possible if I didn’t have to spend my life in an office in front of a computer screen. Sunbathing at noon enormously improves mood.

    Replies: @iffen, @Dmitry, @Svevlad

    Yes there might be a change of thinking about this, and there are appearing some kind of indications that sun tans could be healthy for you despite the skin cancer risks, and beyond just vitamin D.

    Is Sunscreen the New Margarine?

    Yet vitamin D supplementation has failed spectacularly in clinical trials. Five years ago, researchers were already warning that it showed zero benefit, and the evidence has only grown stronger. In November, one of the largest and most rigorous trials of the vitamin ever conducted—in which 25,871 participants received high doses for five years—found no impact on cancer, heart disease, or stroke.

    How did we get it so wrong? How could people with low vitamin D levels clearly suffer higher rates of so many diseases and yet not be helped by supplementation?

    These rebels argue that what made the people with high vitamin D levels so healthy was not the vitamin itself. That was just a marker. Their vitamin D levels were high because they were getting plenty of exposure to the thing that was really responsible for their good health—that big orange ball shining down from above.

    Lindqvist tracked the sunbathing habits of nearly 30,000 women in Sweden over 20 years. Originally, he was studying blood clots, which he found occurred less frequently in women who spent more time in the sun—and less frequently during the summer. Lindqvist looked at diabetes next. Sure enough, the sun worshippers had much lower rates. Melanoma? True, the sun worshippers had a higher incidence of it—but they were eight times less likely to die from it.

    So Lindqvist decided to look at overall mortality rates, and the results were shocking. Over the 20 years of the study, sun avoiders were twice as likely to die as sun worshippers.

    https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science#close

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Dmitry

    Maybe it is similar fallacy as claiming that eating of ice cream lessens the risk of getting flu. When it's just that people eat more ice cream in summer, when it's warm and not cold and wet.

    Perhaps Swedish women who are tanned, just spend more time on outdoors, doing sports, and other fitness related stuff? When pale women are more often overweight, avoid sports, etc... Japanese women are very healthy and live long, but I think that most Japanese of older generations have done their best in avoiding of direct sunlight. Actually Japanese women live longer on average than Swedish women.


    By comparison, the first Jewish communities in Siberia a century earlier formed partly by Jewish settlers marrying local Kalmyk women.
     
    Not possible, Kalmyks were Cossacks, and Jews were not allowed to their ranks. Maybe buying surviving Dzungar slave women from Khalkhas and Kazakhs? Dzungar genocide and enslavement of remnants happened in the 18th century, That's only chance how such exception was possible. Please could you say where you found this information?

    Replies: @Dmitry

  218. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Dmitry
    @Bashibuzuk

    This is an example of the historically typical pattern, until at least the late 19th century. Men were much more mobile than women, and travelling men have almost always married local women across history.

    However, strangely, in postindustrialized nationalities of the 21st century, we begin to see an inversion - that young women can seem to be more mobile than young men.

    In Russia, any of the wealthy glamorous cities of the country, are flooded with young internal immigrants, with a higher ratio of women. And higher ratios of young women than young men, are emigrating from the poor areas of the country.

    Within the EU, the same phenomenon - in the beginning, from Poland, for example, there were apparently two thirds young male to one third female emigrants, but in the last decade the majority are young women, and with higher average educational status than male emigrants.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhanite

    The same thing happened in the early Eastern Slav polities under Khazar domination. Khazaria itself was possibly a kind of Radhanite business project.

    Gumilyov described it in detail:

    http://www.tinlib.ru/istorija/zigzag_istorii/p11.php

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Bashibuzuk

    Gumilyov's theories or not (doesn't he want to save the reputation of Turkic nationalities, by disassociating them from Jewish capitalists) - it would be surprising if Israelite settlers had not followed the typical pattern of the world when they created a new community in Europe: if men was travelling, the women would not be. New populations formed by mobile groups, would have to be created by non-local men marrying to local women.

    This pattern has continued into much of the modern world until the 19th century, so that, for example, the ancestry of modern Argentinian population, is European on the male side, while Native American on the female side.

    "Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%); instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%).
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20059473/

    Prior to the 19th century, perhaps an exception, of not marrying local women, is with anglosaxon settlement of America, or Boers in South Africa. (Although Irish immigration to America, had something like 6:1 male female ratio in the 18th century.)

    Zionist settler of Palestine from the late 19th century, seemed to be a success in managing to bring almost as many women as men to such an inhospitable environment - although perhaps it would have been better for Middle East peace, if they had married local Arab wives. By comparison, the first Jewish communities in Siberia a century earlier formed partly by Jewish settlers marrying local Kalmyk women.

    Replies: @AP, @Bashibuzuk

  219. @Bashibuzuk
    @Dmitry

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhanite

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Saint_Adalbert_of_Prague_pleads_with_Boleslaus_II%2C_Duke_of_Bohemia%2C_for_the_release_of_Christians_slaves_by_their_masters%2C_Jewish_merchants%2C_Gniezno_Door_ca._1170.png/1280px-thumbnail.png

    The same thing happened in the early Eastern Slav polities under Khazar domination. Khazaria itself was possibly a kind of Radhanite business project.

    Gumilyov described it in detail:

    http://www.tinlib.ru/istorija/zigzag_istorii/p11.php

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Gumilyov’s theories or not (doesn’t he want to save the reputation of Turkic nationalities, by disassociating them from Jewish capitalists) – it would be surprising if Israelite settlers had not followed the typical pattern of the world when they created a new community in Europe: if men was travelling, the women would not be. New populations formed by mobile groups, would have to be created by non-local men marrying to local women.

    This pattern has continued into much of the modern world until the 19th century, so that, for example, the ancestry of modern Argentinian population, is European on the male side, while Native American on the female side.

    “Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%); instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%).
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20059473/

    Prior to the 19th century, perhaps an exception, of not marrying local women, is with anglosaxon settlement of America, or Boers in South Africa. (Although Irish immigration to America, had something like 6:1 male female ratio in the 18th century.)

    Zionist settler of Palestine from the late 19th century, seemed to be a success in managing to bring almost as many women as men to such an inhospitable environment – although perhaps it would have been better for Middle East peace, if they had married local Arab wives. By comparison, the first Jewish communities in Siberia a century earlier formed partly by Jewish settlers marrying local Kalmyk women.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    This pattern has continued into much of the modern world until the 19th century, so that, for example, the ancestry of modern Argentinian population, is European on the male side, while Native American on the female side.
     
    To be precise, they are nearly fully European on their father's side and slightly more than half Native on their mother's side. They are about 70% European.

    But I think there is huge variation. Buenos Aires is full of people with pure Italian ancestry whose great-grandparents all came in the late 19th century, while people in provincial cities may be an even mix of European and native. So the 70/30 mix may be almost as unrealistic as concluding about Americans that they are of 6% African descent.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @Dmitry


    Gumilyov’s theories or not
     
    Gumilyov was specialized in Khazar archeology as a young scientist. He worked on it before he came up later with his ethnogenesis/passionarity theories.

    The reason why his theories were and still are disliked is simple: he offended the Russian westernizers when he described the influence of the Great Eurasian Steppe on the formation of the Russian State and he offended the Jewry when he correctly described the formation of Khazar Khaganate as a hijacking of the Khazar Turkic ethnos by the Judaizing plutocratic elite. He has shown that this societal model ends up with the destruction of the Gentile ethnic basis and he has shown why this happens.

    Same thing that happened in Khazaria is ongoing today in both RusFed / Ukraine and the USA / Globalized West. The consequences for the Gentile ethnic core will most likely be similar to what happened to the Turkic Khazar folks some 1000 years ago. It will be degradation, degeneration, disappearance and replacement.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  220. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Mikhail

    There are quite a few such Russians.

    Russians are not generally obsessed with Ukraine in the way that (specifically svidomy) Ukrainians are obsessed with Russia.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    Russians haven’t been invaded by little green men from Ukraine. Haven’t had chunks of their country ripped off by Ukrainian Svidos because they have “misbehaved”. There are good reasons why Ukrainians, of all political stripes, are “obsessed” (concerned would be more accurate) with Russia.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Mr. Hack


    Russians haven’t been invaded by little green men from Ukraine.
     
    Time to accept that Crimea is in Russia now because Crimeans decided to be Russians. The concept you refuse to accept is called DEMOCRACY.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  221. utu says:
    @songbird
    @Bashibuzuk

    Personally, I think the Ashkenazim were phenotypically shifted by living in Northern Europe, and that they are less European than phenotype would sometimes suggest.

    But I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that they bought Euro women as slaves. That the Pope banned Jews from owning Christian slaves does not in anyway disprove the possibility. Arabs certainly did it. American blacks got their white admixture largely through slavery.

    And, anyway, women were frequently sold, even after the end of slavery. It is not PC, but it seems more likely than women "converting", in a highly religious and patriarchal society.

    Replies: @utu

    “That the Pope banned Jews from owning Christian slaves”. – The fact that there were many bans against slavery issued by popes between 6th and 15th centuries shows that the bans were not effective. The profit was just too great. We can assume there were many ways to circumvent the bans.

    By the turn of the 6th to the 7th century, Jews had become the chief slave traders in Italy, and were active in Gallic territories. Pope Gregory the Great issued a ban on Jews possessing Christian slaves, lest the slaves convert to Judaism. By the 9th and 10th centuries, Jewish merchants, sometimes called Radhanites, were a major force in the slave trade continent-wide. – wiki

    It seems that local rulers in Central and Eastern Europe before and still long after adopting Christianity were quite happy to sell their subjects to slave traders.

    • Agree: songbird
  222. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AltanBakshi


    But steak tartare is not!

     

    Steaks are how I get my gains (of muscle function) 🤓

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

    It’s ok I’ll cut you down to the bone.

    Also, Singhs recovering girls in Kashmir

    https://mobile.twitter.com/amaanbali/status/1409771551205986319?s=20

    Also, just hide Dmitry. Any Wokeism @ uefa btw?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Jatt Aryaa

    Hey bro its all about the gains


    Any Wokeism @ uefa btw?
     
    I follow it through German media and didn't think it could get any gayer, then I saw this
    https://imgur.com/a/6Hy7tFA

    https://www.faz.net/aktuell/sport/fussball-em/ukraine-im-em-viertelfinale-party-nach-sieg-gegen-schweden-17414811.html

    Replies: @sher singh

  223. I recommend content creators/brand owners to snap up an .eth domain. They are cheap but could become quite important come Web 3.0. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

    What little I have been able to find about .eth domains is either written for idiots (e.g. https://trustwallet.com/blog/getting-eth-domain) or is narrowly technically focused (e.g. https://docs.ens.domains/), so I don’t yet have a sense of what a .eth domain is good for.
    Some references to it suggest that it’s just a more human-readable alias for an Ethereum wallet address, but others claim that it has some connection to DNS (https://medium.com/the-ethereum-name-service/ens-kred-major-integration-of-dns-and-ens-launches-e7efb4dd872a) or IPFS (https://www.coindesk.com/cloudflare-unveils-gateway-to-distributed-web-with-ens-ipfs-integration).

    I care about human-readable cryptocurrency addresses not at all, but by contrast a replacement for DNS is urgently needed. USG is already seizing .com domains registered by Iranians on mighty thin pretexts, and as we gather speed toward the “left singularity”, it won’t be long before no crimethinker’s .com is safe. And then they’ll bifurcate the internet to close off Americans from the .ru’s.

    I had hoped to find some more insight into just how a .eth address could be useful to a content publisher in this thread. But hitting Control-F on the page mostly just finds the word “ethnic”, unsurprisingly. Hence this plea for help. Anyone got a good overview?

  224. @RadicalCenter
    @Yellowface Anon

    Interesting. Though I’d expect El Norte to extend hundreds of miles farther north than that, into central California, southern Nevada, the rest of Arizona and New Mexico, and Colorado most of the way up to Colorado Springs or so.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    The map is certainly outdated given the demographic changes in these few years (esp. the movements out of Cali and NY that has only picked up speed after COVID lockdowns)

  225. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @Bashibuzuk

    Gumilyov's theories or not (doesn't he want to save the reputation of Turkic nationalities, by disassociating them from Jewish capitalists) - it would be surprising if Israelite settlers had not followed the typical pattern of the world when they created a new community in Europe: if men was travelling, the women would not be. New populations formed by mobile groups, would have to be created by non-local men marrying to local women.

    This pattern has continued into much of the modern world until the 19th century, so that, for example, the ancestry of modern Argentinian population, is European on the male side, while Native American on the female side.

    "Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%); instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%).
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20059473/

    Prior to the 19th century, perhaps an exception, of not marrying local women, is with anglosaxon settlement of America, or Boers in South Africa. (Although Irish immigration to America, had something like 6:1 male female ratio in the 18th century.)

    Zionist settler of Palestine from the late 19th century, seemed to be a success in managing to bring almost as many women as men to such an inhospitable environment - although perhaps it would have been better for Middle East peace, if they had married local Arab wives. By comparison, the first Jewish communities in Siberia a century earlier formed partly by Jewish settlers marrying local Kalmyk women.

    Replies: @AP, @Bashibuzuk

    This pattern has continued into much of the modern world until the 19th century, so that, for example, the ancestry of modern Argentinian population, is European on the male side, while Native American on the female side.

    To be precise, they are nearly fully European on their father’s side and slightly more than half Native on their mother’s side. They are about 70% European.

    But I think there is huge variation. Buenos Aires is full of people with pure Italian ancestry whose great-grandparents all came in the late 19th century, while people in provincial cities may be an even mix of European and native. So the 70/30 mix may be almost as unrealistic as concluding about Americans that they are of 6% African descent.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP

    I'm no geneticist, but this is what the point of the article.

    On the male lineage, modern Argentineans are 94% European, while on the maternal lineage they are 54% Native American.

    The reason for the disparity, is because the vast majority of European immigrants were male.

    In the first generation, marry male European immigrants Native American women. In the second, male European immigrants married half-native children. In third, male European immigrants married to quarter-native children.

    Argentina's population becomes progressively more European, but mDNA shows a majority of Argentinians are descended from Native American founding women.

    A Jewish example of settlement in Western Europe is probably different, as there is indication of an Israelite founding population, disproportionately male, but does not seem to be have been a multi-generation immigration stream of Israelite men.

    So the early studies of communities' male lineage, had supported a so-called "Zionism as repatriation interpretation", as they showed the Ancient Israelite origin, including to some extent for Ethiopian Jews. Later reports, of the female lineage, had been more disappointing from the Zionist repatriation viewpoint, as the maternal origin of these population seems to be more localized to the population where Jews had settled (e.g. with Ethiopian Jews and European Jews not having majority Ancient Israelite origin in the maternal line).


    Buenos Aires is full of people with pure Italian
     
    I didn't read any history books of Argentina, but I don't have an impression that Italian immigrants there was separated from the normal population, in the way of the USA model,- e.g. where New York was strongly divided by rival nationalities until the second half of 20th century, and Irish, Jews, Italians and WASPs would try to create a separate social and dating life.

    For a political example of the Italian immigrants who managed to reach the top of the society - President Mauricio Macri is from Italian paternal descendent, but Argentinian Spanish maternal descent (and his wife is paternally Lebanese and maternally Syrian Muslims).

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  226. @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    Borjigin.


    According to Rashid-al-Din Hamadani, many of the older Mongolian clans were founded by members of the Borjigin — Barlas, Urud, Manghud, Taichiut, Chonos, Kiyat, etc. The first Khan of the Mongol was Bodonchar Munkhag's great-great-grandson Khaidu Khan. Khaidu's grandsons Khabul Khan and Ambaghai Khan (founder of the Taichiut clan) succeeded him. Thereafter, Khabul's sons, Hotula Khan and Yesugei, and Khabul's grandson Temujin (Genghis Khan, son of Yesugei) ruled the Khamag Mongol. By the unification of the Mongols in 1206, virtually all of Temujin's uncles and first cousins had died, and from then on only the descendants of Yesugei Baghatur, his brother Daritai, and nephew Onggur formed the Borjigid.
     

    According to Paul Pelliot and Louis Hambis, Rashid al-Din Hamadani once explained that "borčïqïn" designated in the Turkic languages a man with dark-blue eyes (اشهل‎, ašhal), and did so again without mentioning the said language, adding that Yesugei's children and the majority of their own children had had such eyes per coincidence, also recalling that the genie which had impregnated Alan Gua after her husband's death had had dark-blue eyes ("ašhal čašm").[7] Abu al-Ghazi Bahadur later paraphrased Hamadani by relating that Yesugei's eyes were dark-blue ("شهلا šahlā"), that the Mongols ("Moɣol") called such eyes "borǰïɣïn" (بورجغن[14]), that his sons and most of their descendants had dark-blue eyes ("ašhal"), and that one recognized thus in Yesugei's lineage the characteristic sign of the genie which had visited Alan Gua and had "borǰïɣïn" eyes.
     


    Also:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenisei_Kyrgyz_Khaganate

    During the reign period of Kaiyuan of [emperor] Xuanzong, Ge Jiayun, composed A Record of the Western Regions, in which he said "the people of the Jiankun state all have red hair and green eyes. The ones with dark eyes were descendants of [the Chinese general] Li Ling [who was captured by the Xiongnu]... of Tiele tribe and called themselves Hegu. The change to Xiajiasi is probably because barbarian sounds are sometimes quick and sometimes slow so that the transcriptions of the words are not the same. When it is sometimes pronounced Xiajiasi, it is just that the word is quick. when I enquired from the translation clerk, he said that Xiajiasi had the meaning of 'yellow head and red face' and that this was what the Uighurs called them. Now the envoys say that they themselves have this name. I don't know which is right.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenisei_Kyrgyz

    The Tashtyk culture was first surveyed by the Russian archaeologist Sergei Teploukhov.[3] Teploukhov suggested that it had been initially Indo-European dominated, only to become overcome by the Yenisei Kirghiz around the 3rd century AD.[3] The Yenisei Kirghiz are often associated with the Tashtyk culture.[4]

    Tashtyk settlements and hill-forts have been unearthed throughout the Yenisei region, particularly the Sayan canyon area. Their most imposing monuments were immense barrows-crypt structures; these have yielded large quantities of clay and metal vessels and ornaments. In addition, numerous petrographic carvings have been found. Some of the graves contained leather models of human bodies with their heads wrapped in tissue and brightly painted. Inside the models there were small leather bags probably symbolising the stomach and containing burned human bones. Scaled-down replicas of swords, arrows and quivers were placed nearby. The animal motifs of the Tashtyk belonged to the Scytho-Altaic style

    [...]

    During his excavations of the Oglahty cemetery south of Minusinsk, Leonid Kyzlasov discovered a number of mummies with richly decorated plaster funerary masks showing Western Eurasian features, though this would not rule out some East Asian admixture, as revealed by ancient DNA (see below). There were also intact fur hats, silk clothes, and footwear (now in the Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg).
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashtyk_culture

    The relatively favorable climatic conditions of the Minusinsk Basin and the protection provided by the surrounding mountains have attracted human populations to this region since Paleolithic times. During the last several thousand years, in particular, the Minusinsk Basin has been continuously inhabited by a succession of populations whose cultures provide the single most spectacular archaeological continuum in all of North Asia. Starting with the late Neolithic (and still controversial) Tazmin culture (approximately 2000 to 2500 B.C. ) through the subsequent Afanas'evo, Okunevo, Andronovo, and Karasuk cultures, the Minusinsk Basin seems to have been inhabited by semisedentary agriculturalists and cattle breeders with an increasingly strong steppe-nomadic orientation. This development culminated in the late Bronze-Age Tagar culture (700 to 200 B.C. ), connected with the Scythian epoch of Central Eurasian history. According to paleoanthropological data, the Tagar people and most of their local predecessors seem to have had a predominantly Europoid complex of physical features. There then followed the Tashtyk culture (200 B.C. to A.D. 200), which corresponds to the Hunnic period in Central Eurasia and represents a major intrusion of a new Mongoloid population into the Minusinsk Basin.

     

    https://www.everyculture.com/Russia-Eurasia-China/Khakas-History-and-Cultural-Relations.html

    Also the White Huns were called White for a reason...

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Sixteen_Sword_Bearers_of_Kizil_Caves_%28detail%29.jpg/204px-Sixteen_Sword_Bearers_of_Kizil_Caves_%28detail%29.jpg

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated, how many times I keed to repeat this fact to you weirdo racialists. Heck there was a whole class of people in Mongol empire called Semu, meaning many coloured, because their eyes varied, most of those semu were Central Asian and Iranian Muslims, but no maybe they were just some white people who mysteriously disappeared. I’m being ironic here.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?

    Also the White Huns were called White for a reason…

    I must resist clicking troll button. If you would know anything about steppe culture, you would know that black and white have had always important spiritual meanings in Altaic Shamanism. White has connotations of spiritual purity, that’s why Mongol emperors dressed in white robes, just like Сагаан үбгэн, old white man of legends , that’s why Russian Czars were called white, or why White Tara is white, commoners were often called black, кара ор хар, our new year is сагаалзан, celebration of white moon. Man can have very dark features, but still called white if he possesses high spiritual qualities. Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honghuzi

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then? By your logic Chinese Manchurian border bandits were then gingers!

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @sher singh
    @AltanBakshi

    Similar to people believing Indra Dev is Nordic. The White racialist cope requires people to be jealous of and subversive toward whites through all of human history, despite Nordic areas being backwaters.

    This cope also doesn't explain why the master race is losing to the point whereby, mid century the only places with a substantial white (poc) majority will be slavic lands.

    :shrug:

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    You clearly didn't take the time to read what I posted.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?
     

    Börte & Sorghaghtani Beki . You are probably aware that a child usually has a father and a mother?

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated,
     
    That's exactly what happened with the Borjigin clan and this is exactly what I also wrote. They had recessive traits which were lost through admixture. These recessive traits are not originally found in earliest Altaic populations (that would be Okunevo culture). Later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree with a very diverse assemblage of populations including various proportions of Western Eurasian (mainly Scythian) people and Ugric (from Sargat) people.

    weirdo racialists.
     
    You are being the weirdo racialist here. I am writing that the Early Steppe Empires were polyethnic and interracial, including both Eastern Eurasian and Western Eurasian genetic lineages on top of Ugric genetic inflow. You are insisting that somehow your Mongol ancestors weren't adnixed.

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then?
     
    I was going to mention the association of Red hair color with the "demonic" traits in the Han mythology. And was also going to write about the Honghuzi bandits to demonstrate that the Han saw these traits as alien and menacing since times immemorial, since the times they had to battle and assimilate early Steppe Barbarian people who often had these phenotypic traits. I didn't mention it for two reasons: 1) largely irrelevant, 2) a stretch too far to make a point that should be obvious.

    Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow…
     
    Yeah, sure. Now go and take the time to carefully re-read my comment because you clearly come as a shallow reader yourself.

    And Hephtalite Huns were called White because they were more Iranic / Sarmatian admixed than the Xiongnu. The early kings of the White Huns had typical Indo-Iranian names such as Mihrakula, demonstrating their attachment to archaic Indo-Iranian cult of Mihr (Mithras) that was also historically well attested among the Parthians. Thing is your view of Altaic populations' ethnogenesis is lacking.

    Now go educate yourself:

    https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31321-0?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0092867420313210%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

    Replies: @sher singh, @AltanBakshi, @Morton's toes

    , @reiner Tor
    @AltanBakshi


    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?
     
    I agree that Genghis was likely Mongoloid, but a possible alternative explanation is that the artist could only make pictures of Orientals, and the picture was not nearly as realistic as European Renaissance and later paintings anyway. Moreover, there could be political reasons for him to want to be depicted as similar to his subject. And then there’s the thing that someone could be Mongoloid even if his grandfather was Europid, so Genghis could be Europid (especially something like the Kazakhs) while his grandson Kublai could look basically fully Oriental.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  227. @reiner Tor
    @Dmitry


    herd immunity
     
    With R0 of 3.0 (Covid alpha variant) two thirds of the population needs to be vaccinated. The delta variant may have a significantly higher R0, like 5.0, in which case you need 80% vaccination rate. This includes children. The number gets higher still if you consider that some of the vaccinated people can still get ill (and thus infect others).

    I don’t think that high vaccination rates will be achieved. But I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Yellowface Anon

    I don’t think that high vaccination rates will be achieved.

    Definitely!

    (Politically speaking) even when they profess to the goal of 80-90% vaccination rate, medical institutions are secretly expecting for a large antivaxx contingent, as the enemy in the narrative of “disease control” and eventually setting up segregated governance.

  228. @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    To achieve such tanning in Nordic skin, you need to work for many years, all the time in beach, vacations and solarium, or whatever it’s called in English. I think I know, I visit Sweden almost every year, and have quite many Swedish acquaintances.
     
    No, Swedes just tan naturally like that. Our Swedish poster Thorfinnson was writing about it once IIRC. Yes, if you stick a Swede who had been pale during the winter under a Thai sun on a December holiday he will burn. But a Swede in Sweden will be naturally tan in the summer if he spends time outside.

    This phenomenon is well-known:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/jul/03/thisweekssciencequestions4

    Why do fair-skinned Brits burn while Swedes (for example) tan?

    "Your Celtic phenotypes - Brits with pale skin, freckles, red hair - will burn and never tan," says Mark Birch-Machin, reader in molecular dermatology at the University of Newcastle and a researcher for Cancer Research UK.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @reiner Tor, @AltanBakshi

    Guardian, eh? This is quote from the link you posted:
    “But Birch-Machin is dubious about races such as the Swedes having any real advantage over us in the tanning stakes.”

    https://www.thelocal.se/20110706/34764/?amp

    Every year 2,800 people in Sweden are diagnosed with malignant melanoma, now one of the most common forms of cancer in Sweden, according to a report by Sveriges Radio (SR). Despite this, Swedes continue to use the least sun protection and suffer most sun damage of all nationalities.
    “We love the sun, we have long and cold winters, and as soon as we get our vacation, we Swedes want to make the most of every minute of our sun, which our skin can’t handle,” said Ingrid Synnerstad, associate professor in skin disease and chief physician at the dermatology clinic at Linköping University Hospital, to SR.

    You really are wrong, it’s just that modern Swedes, especially many young women, are obsessed with sunbathing, thus with dedication and work you can get even Swedish skin tanned.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    Guardian, eh? This is quote from the link you posted:
    “But Birch-Machin is dubious about races such as the Swedes having any real advantage over us in the tanning stakes.”
     
    You quote selectively. From the same link:

    James Scott, director of the genetics and genomics research institute at Imperial College London, thinks that from a genetic perspective, the British should be more likely to toast to a gentle brown than their cousins from more northerly latitudes.

    The genetic differences among northern Europeans are minuscule, he says, and any golden glow from the Baltic could be, he says, an "observer artefact".

    But he is not certain of that. "Either the genetics is subtly different in Swedes, such that they have blond hair and fair skin but the propensity to develop more melanin when they see the sun, " Professor Scott says. "[Or] maybe there is a form of conditioning in which the genes get set by environmental triggers in a particular sort of way."

    You really are wrong, it’s just that modern Swedes, especially many young women, are obsessed with sunbathing, thus with dedication and work you can get even Swedish skin tanned.
     
    It doesn't take "dedication" for Swedes. And with dedication you can't get Irish skin tan in such a way.

    Another observation (random from google, which reflects how common it is):

    https://www.datalounge.com/thread/21812719-olive-skinned-scandinavians

    I travel to Denmark and Sweden quite a bit for work. One thing that’s always perplexed me is the large number of natives who have light blond hair and tan skin. It’s very striking. You can tell it’s not from tanning, how did this happen?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AltanBakshi

  229. @iffen
    @reiner Tor

    R. T., exposure to the sun increases your odds of having skin cancers. Tanning just allows you to do more damage and multiply the risks.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson

    I used to have some resources on it, but overall that’s an oversimplification. Sunlight is good for you in moderation, which means quantities not yet causing sunburn.

  230. @Dmitry
    @reiner Tor

    Purpose of the mass vaccination of the population is to prevent the movement of the virus through the population, not to protect you as a particular individual - but in this process it will protect you as an individual, regardless of whether you are vaccinated or not.

    We can see that chances of being infected becomes extremely low in countries where the epidemic is under control, and the current evidence is that vaccination is allowing epidemic to be controllable in those countries which have had early vaccine rollouts of Western vaccines (although Chinese vaccines seem to be failing https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/business/economy/china-vaccines-covid-outbreak.html).

    For example, in Israel, after 55% of people have been vaccinated with Pfizer - only 0,4% of coronavirus test results which targets symptomatic people, are currently positive, with over 40,000 tests of symptomatic people per day.

    45% of the Israeli population is still unvaccinated, but they are currently "free riders" on the control of the epidemic provided by the vaccinated 55% population.

    In such a situation (which should soon be attained in multiple developed countries with effective vaccine rollouts), there is a low chance of being personally infected, let alone suffering serious problems.

    In the rolling 7 day average, number of people having active serious coronavirus cases at the moment in Israel (again, with 55% of the population vaccinated) is 0,00026%. which seems to be around 8 times lower rate than the number of people with penis cancer - a rare disease. Of course, this is level not static and can increase exponentially - but this is an indication of what other countries will see as more than half of their population becomes vaccinated.

    https://i.imgur.com/0bd3nVf.jpg


    I don’t think that high vaccination rates will be achieved. But I wish you good luck in your gas masks.
     
    A year late to have prevented the pandemic, media finally admit it can reduce infections by 100%, even in the most dangerous circumstances of treating seriously ill infected patients. Here is reported by the BBC today: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57636360

    "The quality of face masks healthcare workers wear makes a huge difference to their risk of coronavirus infection, Cambridge University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust research has found.

    Wearing a high grade mask known as an FFP3 can provide up to 100% protection.

    By contrast, there is a far greater chance of staff wearing standard issue surgical masks catching the virus..

    The study found that staff caring for Covid patients on "red" wards faced a risk that was up to 47 times higher than those on "green" or non-Covid wards. So as the second wave of the pandemic started to hit last December, managers in Cambridge made a local decision to upgrade the protection on red wards.

    "The only thing left to try that could make a difference was FFP3 respirators, and they did," Dr Ferris said.

    In the weeks following this move, the rate of infections among healthcare workers on red wards dropped spectacularly, quickly falling to the level experienced by staff on green wards where there were no Covid patients.

    The study concludes that "cases attributed to ward-based exposure fell significantly, with FFP3 respirators providing 31-100% protection (and most likely 100%) against infection from patients with Covid-19"."

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Wearing a high grade mask

    Like I said, I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @reiner Tor

    I expected you to argue against my post, but you didn't. But I will write points anyway I would have responded as it clarifies some of the earlier discussion.

    "Collective immunity" is a tautology, or analytic statement, which is useful for clarifying our language, but which we can adjust like a sliding rule (by changing this "R number") to match what is seen in real world example. For example, epidemiologists even now introduce the concept of "super spreaders" within the analytic statement; viewing "R number" is the average number infected, and then you can also enter a dispersion parameter, such as standard deviation of the number of infected.

    In so far as the observed scenario (for example, the situation in Israel), we saw a 55% vaccination rate of Pfizer had been sufficient to reduce the infection wave of the Alpha variant to a very low level, in which outdoor mask mandate could be removed, and for short time indoor masking too.

    Does this imply that R0 of the alpha variant is less than 2,23? Well, the R0 will vary from country and society, and there the distinction between R0 and Rt is a little arbitrary. It is probably very useful language for the epidemiologist community to communicate between each other though.

    55% vaccination rate with Pfizer, while indoor masks were used, resulted in almost "zero covid" with the Alpha variant. So we can be optimistic that the developed countries will soon reach the threshold where the epidemic is easy to control, and the chance of infection becomes very low regardless of your personal vaccination status.


    Like I said, I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

     

    Contrary to anti-mask views, it would have been the most timely, as well as lowest cost and highest convenience intervention, along with installation of an adequate indoor ventilation.

    Fighting pandemics should be like this, from highest to lowest:

    1. PPE, ventilation. (i.e. engineering solutions, using mature technology, all fast available at low cost)

    2. Travel bans, quarantines. (social policies - rapidly available, but temporarily expensive)

    3. Mass vaccination of the population until there is sufficient collective immunity. (Waiting for the pharmaceutical industry to rescue you - this should be viewed as "Minimax" kind of insurance when everything else failed, as it did)

    4. "Swedish approach", of allowing the virus to pass through the population until there is sufficient natural immunity, with possible annual repeats (something which appeals to fans of Russian "avos")

    Replies: @utu

  231. @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated, how many times I keed to repeat this fact to you weirdo racialists. Heck there was a whole class of people in Mongol empire called Semu, meaning many coloured, because their eyes varied, most of those semu were Central Asian and Iranian Muslims, but no maybe they were just some white people who mysteriously disappeared. I'm being ironic here.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?


    Also the White Huns were called White for a reason…


     

    I must resist clicking troll button. If you would know anything about steppe culture, you would know that black and white have had always important spiritual meanings in Altaic Shamanism. White has connotations of spiritual purity, that's why Mongol emperors dressed in white robes, just like Сагаан үбгэн, old white man of legends , that's why Russian Czars were called white, or why White Tara is white, commoners were often called black, кара ор хар, our new year is сагаалзан, celebration of white moon. Man can have very dark features, but still called white if he possesses high spiritual qualities. Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honghuzi

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then? By your logic Chinese Manchurian border bandits were then gingers!

    Replies: @sher singh, @Bashibuzuk, @reiner Tor

    Similar to people believing Indra Dev is Nordic. The White racialist cope requires people to be jealous of and subversive toward whites through all of human history, despite Nordic areas being backwaters.

    This cope also doesn’t explain why the master race is losing to the point whereby, mid century the only places with a substantial white (poc) majority will be slavic lands.

    :shrug:

  232. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated, how many times I keed to repeat this fact to you weirdo racialists. Heck there was a whole class of people in Mongol empire called Semu, meaning many coloured, because their eyes varied, most of those semu were Central Asian and Iranian Muslims, but no maybe they were just some white people who mysteriously disappeared. I'm being ironic here.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?


    Also the White Huns were called White for a reason…


     

    I must resist clicking troll button. If you would know anything about steppe culture, you would know that black and white have had always important spiritual meanings in Altaic Shamanism. White has connotations of spiritual purity, that's why Mongol emperors dressed in white robes, just like Сагаан үбгэн, old white man of legends , that's why Russian Czars were called white, or why White Tara is white, commoners were often called black, кара ор хар, our new year is сагаалзан, celebration of white moon. Man can have very dark features, but still called white if he possesses high spiritual qualities. Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honghuzi

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then? By your logic Chinese Manchurian border bandits were then gingers!

    Replies: @sher singh, @Bashibuzuk, @reiner Tor

    You clearly didn’t take the time to read what I posted.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?

    Börte & Sorghaghtani Beki . You are probably aware that a child usually has a father and a mother?

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated,

    That’s exactly what happened with the Borjigin clan and this is exactly what I also wrote. They had recessive traits which were lost through admixture. These recessive traits are not originally found in earliest Altaic populations (that would be Okunevo culture). Later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree with a very diverse assemblage of populations including various proportions of Western Eurasian (mainly Scythian) people and Ugric (from Sargat) people.

    weirdo racialists.

    You are being the weirdo racialist here. I am writing that the Early Steppe Empires were polyethnic and interracial, including both Eastern Eurasian and Western Eurasian genetic lineages on top of Ugric genetic inflow. You are insisting that somehow your Mongol ancestors weren’t adnixed.

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then?

    I was going to mention the association of Red hair color with the “demonic” traits in the Han mythology. And was also going to write about the Honghuzi bandits to demonstrate that the Han saw these traits as alien and menacing since times immemorial, since the times they had to battle and assimilate early Steppe Barbarian people who often had these phenotypic traits. I didn’t mention it for two reasons: 1) largely irrelevant, 2) a stretch too far to make a point that should be obvious.

    Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow…

    Yeah, sure. Now go and take the time to carefully re-read my comment because you clearly come as a shallow reader yourself.

    And Hephtalite Huns were called White because they were more Iranic / Sarmatian admixed than the Xiongnu. The early kings of the White Huns had typical Indo-Iranian names such as Mihrakula, demonstrating their attachment to archaic Indo-Iranian cult of Mihr (Mithras) that was also historically well attested among the Parthians. Thing is your view of Altaic populations’ ethnogenesis is lacking.

    Now go educate yourself:

    https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31321-0?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0092867420313210%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @Bashibuzuk

    No one cares.

    https://twitter.com/terrorhousemag/status/1155158532012027904?s=20

    Imagine ignoring how politics shapes historical perception, Quebeckers be stuck in 19th C Liberalism.


    nous étions rois
     
    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ
    , @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg


    You clearly didn’t take the time to read what I posted.
     
    You were clearly implying that Chingghis was more Europid in appearance than present day Mongols which just shows how ignorant you are about Mongol history. I have no bias in this matter, I am myself a man of mixed origins, therefore why I would have a need to prove the East Asianness of ancient Mongols?

    The Tashtyk culture was first surveyed by the Russian archaeologist Sergei Teploukhov.[3] Teploukhov suggested that it had been initially Indo-European dominated, only to become overcome by the Yenisei Kirghiz around the 3rd century AD.[3] The Yenisei Kirghiz are often associated with the Tashtyk culture.[4]
     
    Yenisei Kyrgyz lived in Krasnoyarsk Krai, quite far away from the original homeland of the Mongols.

    There then followed the Tashtyk culture (200 B.C. to A.D. 200), which corresponds to the Hunnic period in Central Eurasia and represents a major intrusion of a new Mongoloid population into the Minusinsk Basin.
     
    Yep, the Turks came from the east.

    Originally Mongols came from the borderlands of Eastern Mongolia and Manchuria, they drove away the original inhabitants of the lands, Uyghurs, and mixed heavily with the remnants. Now when you think of Uyghurs, you probably think of the present day inhabitants of Xinjiang/Eastern Turkestan, but present day Uyghurs are a mix of original Indo-Europeans of Tarim Basin and Uyghurs who escaped Mongol conquest. There's a lot of archeological and forensic evidence of how ancient Steppe Uyghurs looked like, and they looked very Mongolic. You are now Bashi very anachronistic in your attitude.

    IE folks lived in Tarin basin and Ordos area about 2000 years ago, they were already pushed to west by Turkic people long before the coming of the Mongols, who lived east from Turks in the grasslands of Hulunbuir and forest steppe of Manchuria. So original Uyghurs were very East Asian in appearance, and only later mixed with IE people! Which then means that populations living east of Uyghurs, were quite likely East Asian in their appearance! Especially when we take into consideration that there are no proof of Scythians living east of Tuva, or other IE speakers living east of Ordos.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qocho
    If you check this link you can see various surviving ancient depictions of Uyghurs, they did not look very Indo-European.


    Börte & Sorghaghtani Beki . You are probably aware that a child usually has a father and a mother?
     
    Both women were from ethnic groups that were closely related with Mongols, Sorhagtani was a Keraite, and Keraites were lived further west than Mongols, if anything it would be more likely that she had more European admixture than members of original Mongol tribal confederation.

    That’s exactly what happened with the Borjigin clan and this is exactly what I also wrote. They had recessive traits which were lost through admixture. These recessive traits are not originally found in earliest Altaic populations (that would be Okunevo culture). Later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree with a very diverse assemblage of populations including various proportions of Western Eurasian (mainly Scythian) people and Ugric (from Sargat) people.
     
    I do agree that later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree, but your whole premise of possible Indo-European admixture of original Mongols is based on what some Persian Jew thought as the origin of the word Borjigin. Rashid al-Din Hamadani was the adviser and vizier of Ghazan Khan. Ghazan was a Muslim and descendant of Chingghis in, what, in 8th generation or something? So your whole thesis is build on what Rashid had heard from Persianate and Islamised Mongols of Iran, far removed from their roots!

    In my life I have often noticed that Russian language sources are much better in regards of the history of Steppes than the English language ones. Situation was same with Tibetology, but during the last few decades studies in English language have greatly improved.


    Here is what Russian wikipedia says about the word Borjigin.

    Согласно Аюудайн Очиру, две составляющие слова «борджигин» — «бор» и «джигин» происходят из протоалтайского языка, из которого развилась алтайская языковая семья. Монгольское слово бор (boru) переводится как «светло-серый, серый, буланый с серым оттенком, синеватый серый»[3]. Монголы словом бөртэ также именуют волчонка[4]. В бурятском языке, слово буртэ имеется в сочетаниях „хухэ буртэ шоно — матерый серый волк”[5], „буртэ-гэрхэн — серенький”[6], т. е. значение этого слова ~ серый[7]. Аналогом в тюркских языках является слово böri, büri[3].

    Под словом жигин в монгольских языках подразумевается титул родственников хаганов, а также возвеличивающий имя принца[3][8]. В тюркских языках термин известен в формах сыгин[7] и тегин. Согласно Э. Дж. Пуллиблэнку, титул тегин происходит из хуннского титула ту-ци (по переводу «Хань шу» — ‘мудрый’ или ‘достойный’). По его мнению, до тюрков титул тегин был распространен у эфталитов и древних монголов тоба[9]. Версия происхождения этнонима «борджигин» от слов бөри «волк» и тегин «принц» получила поддержку ряда других учёных[7][8].

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Борджигин
     

    Wolf sounds quite much more likely, especially when wolf was the ancestral animal of the Mongols.

    You are being the weirdo racialist here. I am writing that the Early Steppe Empires were polyethnic and interracial, including both Eastern Eurasian and Western Eurasian genetic lineages on top of Ugric genetic inflow. You are insisting that somehow your Mongol ancestors weren’t adnixed.
     
    Hey, hey who is now not reading? Did you not read my comment 79#?

    Oh Boomthorkell I forgot to mention that Mongols have more Indo-European or “white” admixture, than other Asians like Han and Koreans. There was clearly some mixing with ancient steppe Aryans, though not as much as in the case of Central Asian Türks.

     

    For the past two thousand years, the genetic flow in the steppes has gone from the east to the west. I do not deny that Khamag Mongols had no Paleo-Siberian admixture, but there was not much western eurasian heritage.

    Btw Reiner Tor, Aniko, or Anige according to my the site I linked, artist who draw Khubilais portrait, was not East Asian, but a Nepali man, so why he would have had problems with depictions of non-East Asians? And he knew Khubilai from his youth, and Great Khaan Khubilai was about 12 years old when Universal Khaan Chingghis passed away, therefore it is quite likely that Khubilai could remember how Chingghis looked and instruct Aniko in his work, which means that Great Khaan's portrait is not any propaganda("POLITICAL REASONS"), really you guys sound like black nationalists sound when talking about their hidden history or something?


    https://theme.npm.edu.tw/khan/Article.aspx?sNo=03009223&lang=2

    Records indicate that Anige did imperial portraits for the Yuan court, and the high quality and consistency of the portraits of Kublai, Chabi, and Targi suggest the same hand-perhaps that of Anige.

    Furthermore, the treatment of the transparent thin gauze along Targi's forehead is similar to that found in 13th-century Nepalese thangka paintings which in turn derived from east Indian styles. Though not conclusively by Anige, these portraits must be closely related to him.
     

    The portrait of Chingghis must have been famous in the Mongol empire and there must have been a standardised depiction of him already before the rule of Khubilai Khaan, and I have a good reasons to believe so, for one of the princes of Rus, Mikhail Chernigovsky was ordered to bow before Great Khaans portrait in 1245, which famously led to the martyrdom of that poor and noble man.

    Hey Bashi did you know that there exists an ethnic group, officially recognised by the PRC, called White Mongols or Tsagaan Mongol, in Qinghai and Gansu provinces of China, H.H. Dalai Lama is partially related to them. By your logic they must look more Indo-European than other Mongols, right? Because they are the fricking WHITE Mongols, just like the WHITE Huns!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF_ob3ZUEAAZpE8.jpg

    How WHITE or WESTERN EURASIAN THEY LOOK! UNBELIEVABLE!

    Anyway, Eurasians are so closely related with each other that its very hard to discern if someone is 1/4 East Asian and 3/4 West European or vice versa. Like in the case of Keanu Reeves and Bruce Lee.

    Replies: @Wignat is a slur

    , @Morton's toes
    @Bashibuzuk

    > I was going to mention the association of Red hair color with the “demonic” traits in the Han mythology.

    I would be very interested to know where I could find out more about this.

    Did anybody else notice that in the movie edition of War and Peace the only two blonde actors in the whole movie are the villains Helene and Anatole?

    *Most people consider Helene and Anatole just about the only two villains in the work but I did once get flamed to hell and back on the internet for writing that. Some people consider Tolstoy way too sophisticated an artist to use crude tropes like villainy. : )

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Bashibuzuk

  233. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Mikhail

    There are quite a few such Russians.

    Russians are not generally obsessed with Ukraine in the way that (specifically svidomy) Ukrainians are obsessed with Russia.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    There are quite a few such Russians.

    Russians are not generally obsessed with Ukraine in the way that (specifically svidomy) Ukrainians are obsessed with Russia.

    In a rivalry (real and imagined), the smaller group tends to be the more obsessive. Reminded of the situations in NY and Boston concerning the Red Sox and Yankees – especially in the years prior to the Red Sox becoming a powerhouse with four World Series titles in this century.

    I’ve run into my share of Ukes in the US who’ve a pro-Russian outlook and detest the svidos.

    During the Sweden-Ukraine game in Glasgow, I heard a chant that sounded like Rossiya! I recall such in the last UEFA tournament when Ukraine played in Donetsk.

  234. @songbird
    @AltanBakshi

    Germanics (perhaps Northern Slavs too?) who start out pale, tend to tan quite easily, from my perspective. They can often become quite brown and quite resistant to the sun. In my experience, you have to explain to them why you are sitting in the shade, and they still have trouble grasping it.

    I, who am ethnic Irish, without sunblock, need TOTAL shade, not spotty shade, even in Northern Germany. I cannot develop resistance to the sun. My skin is so pale that it is almost literally be blinding when at the beach.

    The sun worship typical in the West has always been a great mystery to me. In particular, I think paler women are more beautiful, and think tanning makes women less beautiful. There is a line from an Irish song: her neck, it was just like a swan's.

    At times, I've suspected sun-worship might be an incipient form of black worship. I find it curious how it does not seem to exist outside the West. But perhaps, it just seems alien and wrong to me because it is Germanic.

    Yet, it doesn't seem to be a historical thing.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Tanning was made fashionable by Coco Chanel in 1920s, before that ivory skin was the standard of beauty in Europe. Once again we can thank the French for the modern degeneracy. Like liberalism and jacobinism were not enough?!

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AltanBakshi

    I guess that begs the question, why it hasn't been successfully (as far as I know) commercialized anywhere else.

  235. @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    You clearly didn't take the time to read what I posted.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?
     

    Börte & Sorghaghtani Beki . You are probably aware that a child usually has a father and a mother?

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated,
     
    That's exactly what happened with the Borjigin clan and this is exactly what I also wrote. They had recessive traits which were lost through admixture. These recessive traits are not originally found in earliest Altaic populations (that would be Okunevo culture). Later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree with a very diverse assemblage of populations including various proportions of Western Eurasian (mainly Scythian) people and Ugric (from Sargat) people.

    weirdo racialists.
     
    You are being the weirdo racialist here. I am writing that the Early Steppe Empires were polyethnic and interracial, including both Eastern Eurasian and Western Eurasian genetic lineages on top of Ugric genetic inflow. You are insisting that somehow your Mongol ancestors weren't adnixed.

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then?
     
    I was going to mention the association of Red hair color with the "demonic" traits in the Han mythology. And was also going to write about the Honghuzi bandits to demonstrate that the Han saw these traits as alien and menacing since times immemorial, since the times they had to battle and assimilate early Steppe Barbarian people who often had these phenotypic traits. I didn't mention it for two reasons: 1) largely irrelevant, 2) a stretch too far to make a point that should be obvious.

    Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow…
     
    Yeah, sure. Now go and take the time to carefully re-read my comment because you clearly come as a shallow reader yourself.

    And Hephtalite Huns were called White because they were more Iranic / Sarmatian admixed than the Xiongnu. The early kings of the White Huns had typical Indo-Iranian names such as Mihrakula, demonstrating their attachment to archaic Indo-Iranian cult of Mihr (Mithras) that was also historically well attested among the Parthians. Thing is your view of Altaic populations' ethnogenesis is lacking.

    Now go educate yourself:

    https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31321-0?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0092867420313210%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

    Replies: @sher singh, @AltanBakshi, @Morton's toes

    No one cares.

    Imagine ignoring how politics shapes historical perception, Quebeckers be stuck in 19th C Liberalism.

    nous étions rois

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  236. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Dmitry
    @Bashibuzuk

    Gumilyov's theories or not (doesn't he want to save the reputation of Turkic nationalities, by disassociating them from Jewish capitalists) - it would be surprising if Israelite settlers had not followed the typical pattern of the world when they created a new community in Europe: if men was travelling, the women would not be. New populations formed by mobile groups, would have to be created by non-local men marrying to local women.

    This pattern has continued into much of the modern world until the 19th century, so that, for example, the ancestry of modern Argentinian population, is European on the male side, while Native American on the female side.

    "Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%); instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%).
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20059473/

    Prior to the 19th century, perhaps an exception, of not marrying local women, is with anglosaxon settlement of America, or Boers in South Africa. (Although Irish immigration to America, had something like 6:1 male female ratio in the 18th century.)

    Zionist settler of Palestine from the late 19th century, seemed to be a success in managing to bring almost as many women as men to such an inhospitable environment - although perhaps it would have been better for Middle East peace, if they had married local Arab wives. By comparison, the first Jewish communities in Siberia a century earlier formed partly by Jewish settlers marrying local Kalmyk women.

    Replies: @AP, @Bashibuzuk

    Gumilyov’s theories or not

    Gumilyov was specialized in Khazar archeology as a young scientist. He worked on it before he came up later with his ethnogenesis/passionarity theories.

    The reason why his theories were and still are disliked is simple: he offended the Russian westernizers when he described the influence of the Great Eurasian Steppe on the formation of the Russian State and he offended the Jewry when he correctly described the formation of Khazar Khaganate as a hijacking of the Khazar Turkic ethnos by the Judaizing plutocratic elite. He has shown that this societal model ends up with the destruction of the Gentile ethnic basis and he has shown why this happens.

    Same thing that happened in Khazaria is ongoing today in both RusFed / Ukraine and the USA / Globalized West. The consequences for the Gentile ethnic core will most likely be similar to what happened to the Turkic Khazar folks some 1000 years ago. It will be degradation, degeneration, disappearance and replacement.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Bashibuzuk

    It was the Jews, but only as the first ethnos to achieve the proto-liberal status of rootless cosmopolitans, and contributing their mindset to subsequent elites who may or may not have connections to Judaism. I'm not a fan of essentializing a race or an ethnos.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @AltanBakshi

  237. @Dmitry
    @reiner Tor

    Yes there might be a change of thinking about this, and there are appearing some kind of indications that sun tans could be healthy for you despite the skin cancer risks, and beyond just vitamin D.

    Is Sunscreen the New Margarine?

    Yet vitamin D supplementation has failed spectacularly in clinical trials. Five years ago, researchers were already warning that it showed zero benefit, and the evidence has only grown stronger. In November, one of the largest and most rigorous trials of the vitamin ever conducted—in which 25,871 participants received high doses for five years—found no impact on cancer, heart disease, or stroke.

    How did we get it so wrong? How could people with low vitamin D levels clearly suffer higher rates of so many diseases and yet not be helped by supplementation?

    These rebels argue that what made the people with high vitamin D levels so healthy was not the vitamin itself. That was just a marker. Their vitamin D levels were high because they were getting plenty of exposure to the thing that was really responsible for their good health—that big orange ball shining down from above.


    Lindqvist tracked the sunbathing habits of nearly 30,000 women in Sweden over 20 years. Originally, he was studying blood clots, which he found occurred less frequently in women who spent more time in the sun—and less frequently during the summer. Lindqvist looked at diabetes next. Sure enough, the sun worshippers had much lower rates. Melanoma? True, the sun worshippers had a higher incidence of it—but they were eight times less likely to die from it.

    So Lindqvist decided to look at overall mortality rates, and the results were shocking. Over the 20 years of the study, sun avoiders were twice as likely to die as sun worshippers.
     

    https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science#close

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Maybe it is similar fallacy as claiming that eating of ice cream lessens the risk of getting flu. When it’s just that people eat more ice cream in summer, when it’s warm and not cold and wet.

    Perhaps Swedish women who are tanned, just spend more time on outdoors, doing sports, and other fitness related stuff? When pale women are more often overweight, avoid sports, etc… Japanese women are very healthy and live long, but I think that most Japanese of older generations have done their best in avoiding of direct sunlight. Actually Japanese women live longer on average than Swedish women.

    By comparison, the first Jewish communities in Siberia a century earlier formed partly by Jewish settlers marrying local Kalmyk women.

    Not possible, Kalmyks were Cossacks, and Jews were not allowed to their ranks. Maybe buying surviving Dzungar slave women from Khalkhas and Kazakhs? Dzungar genocide and enslavement of remnants happened in the 18th century, That’s only chance how such exception was possible. Please could you say where you found this information?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AltanBakshi


    similar fallacy as claiming
     
    Well it's just a correlation, found in an observational study.

    However, there is at least also one of the possible proposed physical mechanisms: "when he exposed volunteers to the equivalent of 30 minutes of summer sunlight without sunscreen, their nitric oxide levels went up and their blood pressure went down. Because of its connection to heart disease and strokes, blood pressure is the leading cause of premature death"

    So it is a hypothesis they could now try to test.


    Not possible, Kalmyks were Cossacks,

     

    When the Jews have been exiled, or voluntarily settled, in Siberia, there were many more males than females. Jews became important in the fur trading industry in Siberia. They could marry Russian women, only if they abandoned the religion. But they were able to get dispensation to convert Kalmyk women to Judaism, so they had famously established the Siberian Jewish community with Kalmyk women that were converted to Judaism.

    This is reported in mainstream sources in Russian. But from English - here was an example: https://books.google.ru/books?id=ZZ2MCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA14

    There is a general trend in the Russian Empire/Soviet Union, that the more East you settled, the more tolerance or normality became to multinational marriage.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Bashibuzuk

  238. @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail

    https://www.macombdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/AP21180788636656.jpg?w=868

    Ukraine beats Sweden late in the game!

    Mickey, you'll be sad to learn that many millions of "Svidos" will be joining you as you root. The trident was worn proudly today...I'd say that #6 looks more than a bit "Turano-Turkic" to my eyes.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AnonfromTN

    A fly in svido ointment: hysterical svido Nitsoy (self- appointment children’s writer) has already attacked the guy who scored for speaking Russian at the press conference. Madhouse inmates stay true to form.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    The "fly in the ointment" is that this super-jock sports dude hadn't realized that he was playing for the Ukrainian national team. Unless he was an import from Russia or Kazakhstan he should have been able to string together a couple of sentences in Ukrainian. Ukrainian or Russian speaking athletes that play in the US are able speak in English when interviewed. The guy must have been, eh.., how do they put it at this blog, a "low- IQ" individual. :-)

    Replies: @Mikhail, @kzn

  239. @reiner Tor
    @AP

    Redhead here. I have always burned very quickly. Like an hour in May late afternoon (around 6 pm) led to a horrible sunburn with peeling.

    In recent years I started a program of making myself more resilient to cold. So I went to a cold lake in February to swim a couple minutes etc. This gave me the idea of sunbathing in the winter. Then gradually in the summer. I always do that around noon, but originally limited to ten, later twenty minutes. Now I can spend under the sun an hour shirtless and at least a couple hours in a T-shirt. But I have to admit that I don’t tan nearly as much as that tanning blond type you described. Still I wonder what would be possible if I didn’t have to spend my life in an office in front of a computer screen. Sunbathing at noon enormously improves mood.

    Replies: @iffen, @Dmitry, @Svevlad

    See, that’s how the “ghost-whites” tan. It needs to be gradual to be activated, but when it is

    On the other hand, I wouldn’t recommend it. You see how whites who live in deserts and sunny places look like. Their skin ages real quickly

  240. @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated, how many times I keed to repeat this fact to you weirdo racialists. Heck there was a whole class of people in Mongol empire called Semu, meaning many coloured, because their eyes varied, most of those semu were Central Asian and Iranian Muslims, but no maybe they were just some white people who mysteriously disappeared. I'm being ironic here.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?


    Also the White Huns were called White for a reason…


     

    I must resist clicking troll button. If you would know anything about steppe culture, you would know that black and white have had always important spiritual meanings in Altaic Shamanism. White has connotations of spiritual purity, that's why Mongol emperors dressed in white robes, just like Сагаан үбгэн, old white man of legends , that's why Russian Czars were called white, or why White Tara is white, commoners were often called black, кара ор хар, our new year is сагаалзан, celebration of white moon. Man can have very dark features, but still called white if he possesses high spiritual qualities. Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honghuzi

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then? By your logic Chinese Manchurian border bandits were then gingers!

    Replies: @sher singh, @Bashibuzuk, @reiner Tor

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?

    I agree that Genghis was likely Mongoloid, but a possible alternative explanation is that the artist could only make pictures of Orientals, and the picture was not nearly as realistic as European Renaissance and later paintings anyway. Moreover, there could be political reasons for him to want to be depicted as similar to his subject. And then there’s the thing that someone could be Mongoloid even if his grandfather was Europid, so Genghis could be Europid (especially something like the Kazakhs) while his grandson Kublai could look basically fully Oriental.

    • LOL: sher singh
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @reiner Tor

    Genghis was Mongoloid, but he also had clear eyes and reddish hair. This recessive phenotype was frequent in the Borjigin Clan. Probably the result of an ancient admixture.


    In an identity-by-descent analysis, the researchers found that Mongolians share a high portion of IBD segments with Finns. In an overall analysis, they found that Mongolians have about 10 percent European ancestry, while Europeans have about 12 percent Mongolian ancestry. But when then excluded Finns from that analysis, the portion of Mongolian ancestry among Europeans fell. This and other analyses suggested to the researchers that complex admixture might have taken place in northeastern Europe and Siberia.
     
    https://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/genetic-ancestry-modern-ancient-mongolian-populations-unraveled

    I have already mentioned the Sargat Culture a couple of times, it was probably there that the Ugric admixture took place.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @reiner Tor

    Portraits of Tang (6-9CE) founder Gaozu, and Empress Wu Zetian. Note their fair/blue eyes. Probably y-haplogroup N carriers.

    Europoid phenotypes in China would have been abundant at that time. That changed after after closing of Silk Road and shift of Sinitic civilization to Yangtze Delta

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Tang_gao_zu.jpg
    https://imgur.com/a/fiGxxte

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  241. @Bashibuzuk
    @Dmitry


    Gumilyov’s theories or not
     
    Gumilyov was specialized in Khazar archeology as a young scientist. He worked on it before he came up later with his ethnogenesis/passionarity theories.

    The reason why his theories were and still are disliked is simple: he offended the Russian westernizers when he described the influence of the Great Eurasian Steppe on the formation of the Russian State and he offended the Jewry when he correctly described the formation of Khazar Khaganate as a hijacking of the Khazar Turkic ethnos by the Judaizing plutocratic elite. He has shown that this societal model ends up with the destruction of the Gentile ethnic basis and he has shown why this happens.

    Same thing that happened in Khazaria is ongoing today in both RusFed / Ukraine and the USA / Globalized West. The consequences for the Gentile ethnic core will most likely be similar to what happened to the Turkic Khazar folks some 1000 years ago. It will be degradation, degeneration, disappearance and replacement.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    It was the Jews, but only as the first ethnos to achieve the proto-liberal status of rootless cosmopolitans, and contributing their mindset to subsequent elites who may or may not have connections to Judaism. I’m not a fan of essentializing a race or an ethnos.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Yellowface Anon

    I have already written that the first to break with the Cyclical Chronological Outlook were the Zoroastrian Indo-Iranian people. They basically invented the concept of progress deriving from an eternal dialectic struggle between Good and Evil, Light and Darkness etc. The final victory of the Saoshyant was to bring the future Utopia. The Jews absorbed and adapted this mindset when they lived under the benevolent Persian patronage. It influenced both the Essenes and the Phariseans.

    Later on, the Jews turned against the Persians and helped the Macedonian / Greek invasion. The Jews became partially Hellenistic, that yielded the early Christian sects through the mix of Judaism, Platonicism, Middle Eastern cults, Zoroastrian influences etc. Christianity intertwined the Antique view of progressive decay in human morality with the Zoroastrian notion of a future victory of Good against Evil.

    Some non-trinitarian Christians and many Jews fleeing the Roman and Byzantine domination settled in Arabia. In Yemen it led to establishing of a Jewish Kingdom. Arabs adapted the Abrahamic mythology of their Jewish and Christian neighbors, added some Semitic lore and perhaps some Manichean influences and ended up producing a Prophet bringing forth the universal message of Islam: pacification and purification of the whole world through struggle.

    In due time, the Jideo-Islamic influences led to Protestantism in Western Europe. The Protestant basically rolled back all Hellenic influences in Christianity and brought it closer to its Semitic roots. They also affirmed the purification ethos producing Puritans and other extreme sects.

    These sects settled North America in a time when the British seriously entertained the idea of "British Israelism" and produced the matrix that led to the current World situation.

    As soon as people abandoned the Cyclical Chronological Outlook of the ancient paganism, the domination of the progressive was just a matter of time. Jews are not the problem, the idea of progress is the root of all Evil.

    Humans do not progress. We evolve very slowly. We are still just naked bipedal apes, but we pretend that we are the center of the Universe. This is the problem.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Agathoklis, @Triteleia Laxa

    , @AltanBakshi
    @Yellowface Anon


    I’m not a fan of essentializing a race or an ethnos.
     
    Somewhat same with me, but rootless cosmopolitans are not preoccupied with their own nation state and nationalism, even without mentioning that they really do have an ethnocentric religion.

    To understand where the future may lead us, we must first know our past. It's not very likely that China will become a Swiss style democracy in this century, right?
  242. Bashibuzuk says:
    @reiner Tor
    @AltanBakshi


    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?
     
    I agree that Genghis was likely Mongoloid, but a possible alternative explanation is that the artist could only make pictures of Orientals, and the picture was not nearly as realistic as European Renaissance and later paintings anyway. Moreover, there could be political reasons for him to want to be depicted as similar to his subject. And then there’s the thing that someone could be Mongoloid even if his grandfather was Europid, so Genghis could be Europid (especially something like the Kazakhs) while his grandson Kublai could look basically fully Oriental.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Genghis was Mongoloid, but he also had clear eyes and reddish hair. This recessive phenotype was frequent in the Borjigin Clan. Probably the result of an ancient admixture.

    In an identity-by-descent analysis, the researchers found that Mongolians share a high portion of IBD segments with Finns. In an overall analysis, they found that Mongolians have about 10 percent European ancestry, while Europeans have about 12 percent Mongolian ancestry. But when then excluded Finns from that analysis, the portion of Mongolian ancestry among Europeans fell. This and other analyses suggested to the researchers that complex admixture might have taken place in northeastern Europe and Siberia.

    https://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/genetic-ancestry-modern-ancient-mongolian-populations-unraveled

    I have already mentioned the Sargat Culture a couple of times, it was probably there that the Ugric admixture took place.

    • Thanks: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Bashibuzuk

    How about we do a trade? you guys can claim Genghis, we get this guy:


    After skiing more than 400 km (250 miles) he was found and admitted to a nearby hospital, where his heart rate was measured at 200 beats per minute, triple the average human heartbeat,[5] and weighing only 43 kg (94 pounds).[4] In the week Koivunen was gone, he subsisted only on pine buds and a single Siberian jay that he caught and ate raw. He ended up surviving and died peacefully at the age of 71.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimo_Koivunen
  243. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Yellowface Anon
    @Bashibuzuk

    It was the Jews, but only as the first ethnos to achieve the proto-liberal status of rootless cosmopolitans, and contributing their mindset to subsequent elites who may or may not have connections to Judaism. I'm not a fan of essentializing a race or an ethnos.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @AltanBakshi

    I have already written that the first to break with the Cyclical Chronological Outlook were the Zoroastrian Indo-Iranian people. They basically invented the concept of progress deriving from an eternal dialectic struggle between Good and Evil, Light and Darkness etc. The final victory of the Saoshyant was to bring the future Utopia. The Jews absorbed and adapted this mindset when they lived under the benevolent Persian patronage. It influenced both the Essenes and the Phariseans.

    Later on, the Jews turned against the Persians and helped the Macedonian / Greek invasion. The Jews became partially Hellenistic, that yielded the early Christian sects through the mix of Judaism, Platonicism, Middle Eastern cults, Zoroastrian influences etc. Christianity intertwined the Antique view of progressive decay in human morality with the Zoroastrian notion of a future victory of Good against Evil.

    Some non-trinitarian Christians and many Jews fleeing the Roman and Byzantine domination settled in Arabia. In Yemen it led to establishing of a Jewish Kingdom. Arabs adapted the Abrahamic mythology of their Jewish and Christian neighbors, added some Semitic lore and perhaps some Manichean influences and ended up producing a Prophet bringing forth the universal message of Islam: pacification and purification of the whole world through struggle.

    In due time, the Jideo-Islamic influences led to Protestantism in Western Europe. The Protestant basically rolled back all Hellenic influences in Christianity and brought it closer to its Semitic roots. They also affirmed the purification ethos producing Puritans and other extreme sects.

    These sects settled North America in a time when the British seriously entertained the idea of “British Israelism” and produced the matrix that led to the current World situation.

    As soon as people abandoned the Cyclical Chronological Outlook of the ancient paganism, the domination of the progressive was just a matter of time. Jews are not the problem, the idea of progress is the root of all Evil.

    Humans do not progress. We evolve very slowly. We are still just naked bipedal apes, but we pretend that we are the center of the Universe. This is the problem.

    • Thanks: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Bashibuzuk

    Persians at least still had a land and their lineage. Jews only have the lineage they elevate above all Goyim.

    In time this dichotomy stopped being one of ethnic identity but of ideology, wealth, class, and power.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    , @Agathoklis
    @Bashibuzuk

    There was a real opportunity around 168-167 BC when our Seleucid king, Antiochos VI Epiphanes forced the Jews of Jerusalem to worship Zeus and Dionysos. Strangely, they were unhappy with this arrangement and refused.

    Naturally, Antiochos destroyed the city and placed a military garrison nearby. Things would have been very different if they had accepted Bromios.

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @Bashibuzuk

    You're elevating dogma over what we all can see. Humans do progress. The evidence is overwhelming.

    I am sure you will deny this, in order to cling to your dogma, but arguments about how the distant past was somehow better, will never have mass resonance. You'd be better off arguing that the sky is red, not blue.

    Humans also are the center of the universe. That is of our universe, the one which matters to us.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  244. AP says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @AP

    Guardian, eh? This is quote from the link you posted:
    "But Birch-Machin is dubious about races such as the Swedes having any real advantage over us in the tanning stakes."


    https://www.thelocal.se/20110706/34764/?amp

    Every year 2,800 people in Sweden are diagnosed with malignant melanoma, now one of the most common forms of cancer in Sweden, according to a report by Sveriges Radio (SR). Despite this, Swedes continue to use the least sun protection and suffer most sun damage of all nationalities.
    “We love the sun, we have long and cold winters, and as soon as we get our vacation, we Swedes want to make the most of every minute of our sun, which our skin can’t handle,” said Ingrid Synnerstad, associate professor in skin disease and chief physician at the dermatology clinic at Linköping University Hospital, to SR.
     

    You really are wrong, it's just that modern Swedes, especially many young women, are obsessed with sunbathing, thus with dedication and work you can get even Swedish skin tanned.

    Replies: @AP

    Guardian, eh? This is quote from the link you posted:
    “But Birch-Machin is dubious about races such as the Swedes having any real advantage over us in the tanning stakes.”

    You quote selectively. From the same link:

    James Scott, director of the genetics and genomics research institute at Imperial College London, thinks that from a genetic perspective, the British should be more likely to toast to a gentle brown than their cousins from more northerly latitudes.

    The genetic differences among northern Europeans are minuscule, he says, and any golden glow from the Baltic could be, he says, an “observer artefact”.

    But he is not certain of that. “Either the genetics is subtly different in Swedes, such that they have blond hair and fair skin but the propensity to develop more melanin when they see the sun, ” Professor Scott says. “[Or] maybe there is a form of conditioning in which the genes get set by environmental triggers in a particular sort of way.”

    You really are wrong, it’s just that modern Swedes, especially many young women, are obsessed with sunbathing, thus with dedication and work you can get even Swedish skin tanned.

    It doesn’t take “dedication” for Swedes. And with dedication you can’t get Irish skin tan in such a way.

    Another observation (random from google, which reflects how common it is):

    https://www.datalounge.com/thread/21812719-olive-skinned-scandinavians

    I travel to Denmark and Sweden quite a bit for work. One thing that’s always perplexed me is the large number of natives who have light blond hair and tan skin. It’s very striking. You can tell it’s not from tanning, how did this happen?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    I have a friend in Minnesota who was of Norwegian descent on his father's side and French on his mother's side. He had somewhat dark skin and extremely dark eyes, and coal black hair. Overall, a dark complected sort of look. I always just wrote off his anomalous look to his French genes and let it go at that. Reading this thread has caused me to think about him and the overall topic of dark and tanning Scandinavians. Due to the marvels of the internet, I've been able to find several threads dedicated to the topic of "dark Norwegians" where even Swedes can be found to be darker than the "driven snows". This propensity towards darkness is definitely to be found within Scandinavia amongst a small but discernible subset that nobody seems to be able to explain away. Several theories abound. Some think that gypsies made it to Scandinvia and mixed in with the Aryan blondies, others think that certain subsets of the Finno-Ugrics were dark to begin with. I don't have any theories of my own, but have witnessed this phenomena first hand, in Minnesota. Of course I was also fortunate to see many good looking specimens of the blonde type too. Here's a photo of the later type that I knew in high school, who went on to make it in the world of musical entertainment:

    https://www.dakotacooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/700x400_Connie-Evingson_2.jpg
    The always lovely Connie Evingson!

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @AltanBakshi
    @AP


    https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/5123470

    Scandinavian countries have the highest number of skin cancer cases in all of Europe, despite having the most sun-deprived climates. Sweden leads the Nordic countries, with 45,000 people diagnosed with skin cancer each year. 500 die from the disease annually, in particular from melanoma, which is more than the yearly total of fatalities from road traffic accidents.


    Johan Hansson, a doctor at Karolinska hospital, and one of the conference's organizers, says skin cancer has been on the rise in Sweden since the 1960s, and shows little signs of slowing down as the Swedes are a sun-worshipping nation.

    "Swedes do not live in a sunny country, but we almost worship the sun. Since we are an affluent country we can afford to go abroad during summer and during winter", Hansson tells Radio Sweden.

    "Many people travel to Asia, for instance, and get a very strong stan in a short amount of time. This is something that shows up now in cancer statistics, unfortunately", he says.

    One of the issues being discussed at the conference is the use of tanning beds, a practice which is popular in Sweden, especially during those sun starved winter months. While many countries have banned tanning beds entirely due to the proven link between their use and skin cancer, tanning beds can be found in swimming pools and sports halls in all of Sweden's municipalities. Phillipe Autier, a physician from France, has been researching into link between the use of tanning beds and melanoma.

    "Sweden is one of the champions in the world for indoor UV-tanning. Teenagers and young women are crazy about keeping a tan. But also, it's a question of feeling well. During the long winter, there is a need to get some light", Autier says
     

    Okay, I admit that it's little bit harder for British to get tanned, but we both forget what either of us was comparing to. I compared Nordics to Northeast Asians, and I've never been on a sunny vacation or on the beach with Britons, so from my perspective Nordics do not tan easily. To me they have always been the standard of people who don't tan easily.

    Replies: @AP

  245. @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    Borjigin.


    According to Rashid-al-Din Hamadani, many of the older Mongolian clans were founded by members of the Borjigin — Barlas, Urud, Manghud, Taichiut, Chonos, Kiyat, etc. The first Khan of the Mongol was Bodonchar Munkhag's great-great-grandson Khaidu Khan. Khaidu's grandsons Khabul Khan and Ambaghai Khan (founder of the Taichiut clan) succeeded him. Thereafter, Khabul's sons, Hotula Khan and Yesugei, and Khabul's grandson Temujin (Genghis Khan, son of Yesugei) ruled the Khamag Mongol. By the unification of the Mongols in 1206, virtually all of Temujin's uncles and first cousins had died, and from then on only the descendants of Yesugei Baghatur, his brother Daritai, and nephew Onggur formed the Borjigid.
     

    According to Paul Pelliot and Louis Hambis, Rashid al-Din Hamadani once explained that "borčïqïn" designated in the Turkic languages a man with dark-blue eyes (اشهل‎, ašhal), and did so again without mentioning the said language, adding that Yesugei's children and the majority of their own children had had such eyes per coincidence, also recalling that the genie which had impregnated Alan Gua after her husband's death had had dark-blue eyes ("ašhal čašm").[7] Abu al-Ghazi Bahadur later paraphrased Hamadani by relating that Yesugei's eyes were dark-blue ("شهلا šahlā"), that the Mongols ("Moɣol") called such eyes "borǰïɣïn" (بورجغن[14]), that his sons and most of their descendants had dark-blue eyes ("ašhal"), and that one recognized thus in Yesugei's lineage the characteristic sign of the genie which had visited Alan Gua and had "borǰïɣïn" eyes.
     


    Also:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenisei_Kyrgyz_Khaganate

    During the reign period of Kaiyuan of [emperor] Xuanzong, Ge Jiayun, composed A Record of the Western Regions, in which he said "the people of the Jiankun state all have red hair and green eyes. The ones with dark eyes were descendants of [the Chinese general] Li Ling [who was captured by the Xiongnu]... of Tiele tribe and called themselves Hegu. The change to Xiajiasi is probably because barbarian sounds are sometimes quick and sometimes slow so that the transcriptions of the words are not the same. When it is sometimes pronounced Xiajiasi, it is just that the word is quick. when I enquired from the translation clerk, he said that Xiajiasi had the meaning of 'yellow head and red face' and that this was what the Uighurs called them. Now the envoys say that they themselves have this name. I don't know which is right.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenisei_Kyrgyz

    The Tashtyk culture was first surveyed by the Russian archaeologist Sergei Teploukhov.[3] Teploukhov suggested that it had been initially Indo-European dominated, only to become overcome by the Yenisei Kirghiz around the 3rd century AD.[3] The Yenisei Kirghiz are often associated with the Tashtyk culture.[4]

    Tashtyk settlements and hill-forts have been unearthed throughout the Yenisei region, particularly the Sayan canyon area. Their most imposing monuments were immense barrows-crypt structures; these have yielded large quantities of clay and metal vessels and ornaments. In addition, numerous petrographic carvings have been found. Some of the graves contained leather models of human bodies with their heads wrapped in tissue and brightly painted. Inside the models there were small leather bags probably symbolising the stomach and containing burned human bones. Scaled-down replicas of swords, arrows and quivers were placed nearby. The animal motifs of the Tashtyk belonged to the Scytho-Altaic style

    [...]

    During his excavations of the Oglahty cemetery south of Minusinsk, Leonid Kyzlasov discovered a number of mummies with richly decorated plaster funerary masks showing Western Eurasian features, though this would not rule out some East Asian admixture, as revealed by ancient DNA (see below). There were also intact fur hats, silk clothes, and footwear (now in the Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg).
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashtyk_culture

    The relatively favorable climatic conditions of the Minusinsk Basin and the protection provided by the surrounding mountains have attracted human populations to this region since Paleolithic times. During the last several thousand years, in particular, the Minusinsk Basin has been continuously inhabited by a succession of populations whose cultures provide the single most spectacular archaeological continuum in all of North Asia. Starting with the late Neolithic (and still controversial) Tazmin culture (approximately 2000 to 2500 B.C. ) through the subsequent Afanas'evo, Okunevo, Andronovo, and Karasuk cultures, the Minusinsk Basin seems to have been inhabited by semisedentary agriculturalists and cattle breeders with an increasingly strong steppe-nomadic orientation. This development culminated in the late Bronze-Age Tagar culture (700 to 200 B.C. ), connected with the Scythian epoch of Central Eurasian history. According to paleoanthropological data, the Tagar people and most of their local predecessors seem to have had a predominantly Europoid complex of physical features. There then followed the Tashtyk culture (200 B.C. to A.D. 200), which corresponds to the Hunnic period in Central Eurasia and represents a major intrusion of a new Mongoloid population into the Minusinsk Basin.

     

    https://www.everyculture.com/Russia-Eurasia-China/Khakas-History-and-Cultural-Relations.html

    Also the White Huns were called White for a reason...

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Sixteen_Sword_Bearers_of_Kizil_Caves_%28detail%29.jpg/204px-Sixteen_Sword_Bearers_of_Kizil_Caves_%28detail%29.jpg

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Wignat is a slur

    I remember when I read about this, I encountered this hilarious site by a very angry Chinese accusing Rashid Al-Din of Jewish perfidy by lying about the Mongols’ ethnicity to improve the reputation of the white race.

    https://goldenhordes.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/debunking-a-white-myth-genghis-khan-had-red-hair/

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Wignat is a slur


    Rashid was a Jew working for the Persian Empire. The Persians have meticulously exaggerated or twisted facts about history, and this Jew fellow working for the Persians may have been assigned to propagate a Nordicist agenda
     
    Thanks for pointing me to this site, this is certainly one of the most amusing paragraphs I have ever read.

    🙂
  246. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Wignat is a slur
    @Bashibuzuk

    I remember when I read about this, I encountered this hilarious site by a very angry Chinese accusing Rashid Al-Din of Jewish perfidy by lying about the Mongols' ethnicity to improve the reputation of the white race.

    https://goldenhordes.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/debunking-a-white-myth-genghis-khan-had-red-hair/

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Rashid was a Jew working for the Persian Empire. The Persians have meticulously exaggerated or twisted facts about history, and this Jew fellow working for the Persians may have been assigned to propagate a Nordicist agenda

    Thanks for pointing me to this site, this is certainly one of the most amusing paragraphs I have ever read.

    🙂

    • LOL: AltanBakshi
  247. @Bashibuzuk
    @Yellowface Anon

    I have already written that the first to break with the Cyclical Chronological Outlook were the Zoroastrian Indo-Iranian people. They basically invented the concept of progress deriving from an eternal dialectic struggle between Good and Evil, Light and Darkness etc. The final victory of the Saoshyant was to bring the future Utopia. The Jews absorbed and adapted this mindset when they lived under the benevolent Persian patronage. It influenced both the Essenes and the Phariseans.

    Later on, the Jews turned against the Persians and helped the Macedonian / Greek invasion. The Jews became partially Hellenistic, that yielded the early Christian sects through the mix of Judaism, Platonicism, Middle Eastern cults, Zoroastrian influences etc. Christianity intertwined the Antique view of progressive decay in human morality with the Zoroastrian notion of a future victory of Good against Evil.

    Some non-trinitarian Christians and many Jews fleeing the Roman and Byzantine domination settled in Arabia. In Yemen it led to establishing of a Jewish Kingdom. Arabs adapted the Abrahamic mythology of their Jewish and Christian neighbors, added some Semitic lore and perhaps some Manichean influences and ended up producing a Prophet bringing forth the universal message of Islam: pacification and purification of the whole world through struggle.

    In due time, the Jideo-Islamic influences led to Protestantism in Western Europe. The Protestant basically rolled back all Hellenic influences in Christianity and brought it closer to its Semitic roots. They also affirmed the purification ethos producing Puritans and other extreme sects.

    These sects settled North America in a time when the British seriously entertained the idea of "British Israelism" and produced the matrix that led to the current World situation.

    As soon as people abandoned the Cyclical Chronological Outlook of the ancient paganism, the domination of the progressive was just a matter of time. Jews are not the problem, the idea of progress is the root of all Evil.

    Humans do not progress. We evolve very slowly. We are still just naked bipedal apes, but we pretend that we are the center of the Universe. This is the problem.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Agathoklis, @Triteleia Laxa

    Persians at least still had a land and their lineage. Jews only have the lineage they elevate above all Goyim.

    In time this dichotomy stopped being one of ethnic identity but of ideology, wealth, class, and power.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Yellowface Anon

    It's not a matter of ethnicity, but a matter of mentality. Those who have the mindset that allows them to act as a vector of the techno-social change are the ones who are favored nowadays. The closer you are to the process of technological change and the flow of finances and information that fuels it, and the higher you rank in the postmodern hierarchy. Technological progress is basically what most people mistake for human progress. Technology is basically superseding human mind. True human progress would be us as a species developing some higher mental and moral qualities, not the average human buying the latest IPhone. But becoming a better human is difficult, while buying another gizmo is easy: "there are things that are priceless, for the rest there is Mastercard"...

  248. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Yellowface Anon
    @Bashibuzuk

    Persians at least still had a land and their lineage. Jews only have the lineage they elevate above all Goyim.

    In time this dichotomy stopped being one of ethnic identity but of ideology, wealth, class, and power.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    It’s not a matter of ethnicity, but a matter of mentality. Those who have the mindset that allows them to act as a vector of the techno-social change are the ones who are favored nowadays. The closer you are to the process of technological change and the flow of finances and information that fuels it, and the higher you rank in the postmodern hierarchy. Technological progress is basically what most people mistake for human progress. Technology is basically superseding human mind. True human progress would be us as a species developing some higher mental and moral qualities, not the average human buying the latest IPhone. But becoming a better human is difficult, while buying another gizmo is easy: “there are things that are priceless, for the rest there is Mastercard”…

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  249. @Bashibuzuk
    @Yellowface Anon

    I have already written that the first to break with the Cyclical Chronological Outlook were the Zoroastrian Indo-Iranian people. They basically invented the concept of progress deriving from an eternal dialectic struggle between Good and Evil, Light and Darkness etc. The final victory of the Saoshyant was to bring the future Utopia. The Jews absorbed and adapted this mindset when they lived under the benevolent Persian patronage. It influenced both the Essenes and the Phariseans.

    Later on, the Jews turned against the Persians and helped the Macedonian / Greek invasion. The Jews became partially Hellenistic, that yielded the early Christian sects through the mix of Judaism, Platonicism, Middle Eastern cults, Zoroastrian influences etc. Christianity intertwined the Antique view of progressive decay in human morality with the Zoroastrian notion of a future victory of Good against Evil.

    Some non-trinitarian Christians and many Jews fleeing the Roman and Byzantine domination settled in Arabia. In Yemen it led to establishing of a Jewish Kingdom. Arabs adapted the Abrahamic mythology of their Jewish and Christian neighbors, added some Semitic lore and perhaps some Manichean influences and ended up producing a Prophet bringing forth the universal message of Islam: pacification and purification of the whole world through struggle.

    In due time, the Jideo-Islamic influences led to Protestantism in Western Europe. The Protestant basically rolled back all Hellenic influences in Christianity and brought it closer to its Semitic roots. They also affirmed the purification ethos producing Puritans and other extreme sects.

    These sects settled North America in a time when the British seriously entertained the idea of "British Israelism" and produced the matrix that led to the current World situation.

    As soon as people abandoned the Cyclical Chronological Outlook of the ancient paganism, the domination of the progressive was just a matter of time. Jews are not the problem, the idea of progress is the root of all Evil.

    Humans do not progress. We evolve very slowly. We are still just naked bipedal apes, but we pretend that we are the center of the Universe. This is the problem.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Agathoklis, @Triteleia Laxa

    There was a real opportunity around 168-167 BC when our Seleucid king, Antiochos VI Epiphanes forced the Jews of Jerusalem to worship Zeus and Dionysos. Strangely, they were unhappy with this arrangement and refused.

    Naturally, Antiochos destroyed the city and placed a military garrison nearby. Things would have been very different if they had accepted Bromios.

  250. @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    Guardian, eh? This is quote from the link you posted:
    “But Birch-Machin is dubious about races such as the Swedes having any real advantage over us in the tanning stakes.”
     
    You quote selectively. From the same link:

    James Scott, director of the genetics and genomics research institute at Imperial College London, thinks that from a genetic perspective, the British should be more likely to toast to a gentle brown than their cousins from more northerly latitudes.

    The genetic differences among northern Europeans are minuscule, he says, and any golden glow from the Baltic could be, he says, an "observer artefact".

    But he is not certain of that. "Either the genetics is subtly different in Swedes, such that they have blond hair and fair skin but the propensity to develop more melanin when they see the sun, " Professor Scott says. "[Or] maybe there is a form of conditioning in which the genes get set by environmental triggers in a particular sort of way."

    You really are wrong, it’s just that modern Swedes, especially many young women, are obsessed with sunbathing, thus with dedication and work you can get even Swedish skin tanned.
     
    It doesn't take "dedication" for Swedes. And with dedication you can't get Irish skin tan in such a way.

    Another observation (random from google, which reflects how common it is):

    https://www.datalounge.com/thread/21812719-olive-skinned-scandinavians

    I travel to Denmark and Sweden quite a bit for work. One thing that’s always perplexed me is the large number of natives who have light blond hair and tan skin. It’s very striking. You can tell it’s not from tanning, how did this happen?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AltanBakshi

    I have a friend in Minnesota who was of Norwegian descent on his father’s side and French on his mother’s side. He had somewhat dark skin and extremely dark eyes, and coal black hair. Overall, a dark complected sort of look. I always just wrote off his anomalous look to his French genes and let it go at that. Reading this thread has caused me to think about him and the overall topic of dark and tanning Scandinavians. Due to the marvels of the internet, I’ve been able to find several threads dedicated to the topic of “dark Norwegians” where even Swedes can be found to be darker than the “driven snows”. This propensity towards darkness is definitely to be found within Scandinavia amongst a small but discernible subset that nobody seems to be able to explain away. Several theories abound. Some think that gypsies made it to Scandinvia and mixed in with the Aryan blondies, others think that certain subsets of the Finno-Ugrics were dark to begin with. I don’t have any theories of my own, but have witnessed this phenomena first hand, in Minnesota. Of course I was also fortunate to see many good looking specimens of the blonde type too. Here’s a photo of the later type that I knew in high school, who went on to make it in the world of musical entertainment:

    The always lovely Connie Evingson!

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Mr. Hack


    others think that certain subsets of the Finno-Ugrics were dark to begin with.
     
    It could be the Sami heritage. Samis originally inhabited most of Finland, Northern half of Sweden and Norway, they were progressively pushed to North, but probably many of them were just assimilated by the Swedes, Finns and Norwegians.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  251. @A123
    Humor for the open thread

    From the recurring series:
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/category/the-week-in-pictures

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-17-at-8.28.37-AM.png
     



     

    https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-20-at-10.11.37-AM.png

     

    https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-20-at-9.19.26-PM.png

     

    https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/06/12.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Instead of memes that reinforce GOP and Trumpist idiosyncracy have this little cuddling raccoon:

    • Agree: mal
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    https://i.imgur.com/A4hi4nh.jpeg

    What's a better insult to your redneck fans than locking up the viewer seats because "COVID", then installing screens for all the faces staring emptily into the simulacrum of simulacra? Pro Wrestling never has a good sense of aesthetics, but this is straight out of mortuaries. Keeping the seats empty or opening them at half capacity looks better (tho libertarians and maybe lots of redneck won't return until there's full seating and they don't need a mask and vaccine passports for entry).

  252. @AP
    @Dmitry


    This pattern has continued into much of the modern world until the 19th century, so that, for example, the ancestry of modern Argentinian population, is European on the male side, while Native American on the female side.
     
    To be precise, they are nearly fully European on their father's side and slightly more than half Native on their mother's side. They are about 70% European.

    But I think there is huge variation. Buenos Aires is full of people with pure Italian ancestry whose great-grandparents all came in the late 19th century, while people in provincial cities may be an even mix of European and native. So the 70/30 mix may be almost as unrealistic as concluding about Americans that they are of 6% African descent.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    I’m no geneticist, but this is what the point of the article.

    On the male lineage, modern Argentineans are 94% European, while on the maternal lineage they are 54% Native American.

    The reason for the disparity, is because the vast majority of European immigrants were male.

    In the first generation, marry male European immigrants Native American women. In the second, male European immigrants married half-native children. In third, male European immigrants married to quarter-native children.

    Argentina’s population becomes progressively more European, but mDNA shows a majority of Argentinians are descended from Native American founding women.

    A Jewish example of settlement in Western Europe is probably different, as there is indication of an Israelite founding population, disproportionately male, but does not seem to be have been a multi-generation immigration stream of Israelite men.

    So the early studies of communities’ male lineage, had supported a so-called “Zionism as repatriation interpretation”, as they showed the Ancient Israelite origin, including to some extent for Ethiopian Jews. Later reports, of the female lineage, had been more disappointing from the Zionist repatriation viewpoint, as the maternal origin of these population seems to be more localized to the population where Jews had settled (e.g. with Ethiopian Jews and European Jews not having majority Ancient Israelite origin in the maternal line).

    Buenos Aires is full of people with pure Italian

    I didn’t read any history books of Argentina, but I don’t have an impression that Italian immigrants there was separated from the normal population, in the way of the USA model,- e.g. where New York was strongly divided by rival nationalities until the second half of 20th century, and Irish, Jews, Italians and WASPs would try to create a separate social and dating life.

    For a political example of the Italian immigrants who managed to reach the top of the society – President Mauricio Macri is from Italian paternal descendent, but Argentinian Spanish maternal descent (and his wife is paternally Lebanese and maternally Syrian Muslims).

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Dmitry

    Where did you get these numbers from?

    Replies: @utu

  253. @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    You clearly didn't take the time to read what I posted.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?
     

    Börte & Sorghaghtani Beki . You are probably aware that a child usually has a father and a mother?

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated,
     
    That's exactly what happened with the Borjigin clan and this is exactly what I also wrote. They had recessive traits which were lost through admixture. These recessive traits are not originally found in earliest Altaic populations (that would be Okunevo culture). Later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree with a very diverse assemblage of populations including various proportions of Western Eurasian (mainly Scythian) people and Ugric (from Sargat) people.

    weirdo racialists.
     
    You are being the weirdo racialist here. I am writing that the Early Steppe Empires were polyethnic and interracial, including both Eastern Eurasian and Western Eurasian genetic lineages on top of Ugric genetic inflow. You are insisting that somehow your Mongol ancestors weren't adnixed.

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then?
     
    I was going to mention the association of Red hair color with the "demonic" traits in the Han mythology. And was also going to write about the Honghuzi bandits to demonstrate that the Han saw these traits as alien and menacing since times immemorial, since the times they had to battle and assimilate early Steppe Barbarian people who often had these phenotypic traits. I didn't mention it for two reasons: 1) largely irrelevant, 2) a stretch too far to make a point that should be obvious.

    Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow…
     
    Yeah, sure. Now go and take the time to carefully re-read my comment because you clearly come as a shallow reader yourself.

    And Hephtalite Huns were called White because they were more Iranic / Sarmatian admixed than the Xiongnu. The early kings of the White Huns had typical Indo-Iranian names such as Mihrakula, demonstrating their attachment to archaic Indo-Iranian cult of Mihr (Mithras) that was also historically well attested among the Parthians. Thing is your view of Altaic populations' ethnogenesis is lacking.

    Now go educate yourself:

    https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31321-0?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0092867420313210%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

    Replies: @sher singh, @AltanBakshi, @Morton's toes

    [MORE]

    You clearly didn’t take the time to read what I posted.

    You were clearly implying that Chingghis was more Europid in appearance than present day Mongols which just shows how ignorant you are about Mongol history. I have no bias in this matter, I am myself a man of mixed origins, therefore why I would have a need to prove the East Asianness of ancient Mongols?

    The Tashtyk culture was first surveyed by the Russian archaeologist Sergei Teploukhov.[3] Teploukhov suggested that it had been initially Indo-European dominated, only to become overcome by the Yenisei Kirghiz around the 3rd century AD.[3] The Yenisei Kirghiz are often associated with the Tashtyk culture.[4]

    Yenisei Kyrgyz lived in Krasnoyarsk Krai, quite far away from the original homeland of the Mongols.

    There then followed the Tashtyk culture (200 B.C. to A.D. 200), which corresponds to the Hunnic period in Central Eurasia and represents a major intrusion of a new Mongoloid population into the Minusinsk Basin.

    Yep, the Turks came from the east.

    Originally Mongols came from the borderlands of Eastern Mongolia and Manchuria, they drove away the original inhabitants of the lands, Uyghurs, and mixed heavily with the remnants. Now when you think of Uyghurs, you probably think of the present day inhabitants of Xinjiang/Eastern Turkestan, but present day Uyghurs are a mix of original Indo-Europeans of Tarim Basin and Uyghurs who escaped Mongol conquest. There’s a lot of archeological and forensic evidence of how ancient Steppe Uyghurs looked like, and they looked very Mongolic. You are now Bashi very anachronistic in your attitude.

    IE folks lived in Tarin basin and Ordos area about 2000 years ago, they were already pushed to west by Turkic people long before the coming of the Mongols, who lived east from Turks in the grasslands of Hulunbuir and forest steppe of Manchuria. So original Uyghurs were very East Asian in appearance, and only later mixed with IE people! Which then means that populations living east of Uyghurs, were quite likely East Asian in their appearance! Especially when we take into consideration that there are no proof of Scythians living east of Tuva, or other IE speakers living east of Ordos.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qocho
    If you check this link you can see various surviving ancient depictions of Uyghurs, they did not look very Indo-European.

    Börte & Sorghaghtani Beki . You are probably aware that a child usually has a father and a mother?

    Both women were from ethnic groups that were closely related with Mongols, Sorhagtani was a Keraite, and Keraites were lived further west than Mongols, if anything it would be more likely that she had more European admixture than members of original Mongol tribal confederation.

    That’s exactly what happened with the Borjigin clan and this is exactly what I also wrote. They had recessive traits which were lost through admixture. These recessive traits are not originally found in earliest Altaic populations (that would be Okunevo culture). Later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree with a very diverse assemblage of populations including various proportions of Western Eurasian (mainly Scythian) people and Ugric (from Sargat) people.

    I do agree that later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree, but your whole premise of possible Indo-European admixture of original Mongols is based on what some Persian Jew thought as the origin of the word Borjigin. Rashid al-Din Hamadani was the adviser and vizier of Ghazan Khan. Ghazan was a Muslim and descendant of Chingghis in, what, in 8th generation or something? So your whole thesis is build on what Rashid had heard from Persianate and Islamised Mongols of Iran, far removed from their roots!

    In my life I have often noticed that Russian language sources are much better in regards of the history of Steppes than the English language ones. Situation was same with Tibetology, but during the last few decades studies in English language have greatly improved.

    Here is what Russian wikipedia says about the word Borjigin.

    Согласно Аюудайн Очиру, две составляющие слова «борджигин» — «бор» и «джигин» происходят из протоалтайского языка, из которого развилась алтайская языковая семья. Монгольское слово бор (boru) переводится как «светло-серый, серый, буланый с серым оттенком, синеватый серый»[3]. Монголы словом бөртэ также именуют волчонка[4]. В бурятском языке, слово буртэ имеется в сочетаниях „хухэ буртэ шоно — матерый серый волк”[5], „буртэ-гэрхэн — серенький”[6], т. е. значение этого слова ~ серый[7]. Аналогом в тюркских языках является слово böri, büri[3].

    Под словом жигин в монгольских языках подразумевается титул родственников хаганов, а также возвеличивающий имя принца[3][8]. В тюркских языках термин известен в формах сыгин[7] и тегин. Согласно Э. Дж. Пуллиблэнку, титул тегин происходит из хуннского титула ту-ци (по переводу «Хань шу» — ‘мудрый’ или ‘достойный’). По его мнению, до тюрков титул тегин был распространен у эфталитов и древних монголов тоба[9]. Версия происхождения этнонима «борджигин» от слов бөри «волк» и тегин «принц» получила поддержку ряда других учёных[7][8].

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Борджигин

    Wolf sounds quite much more likely, especially when wolf was the ancestral animal of the Mongols.

    You are being the weirdo racialist here. I am writing that the Early Steppe Empires were polyethnic and interracial, including both Eastern Eurasian and Western Eurasian genetic lineages on top of Ugric genetic inflow. You are insisting that somehow your Mongol ancestors weren’t adnixed.

    Hey, hey who is now not reading? Did you not read my comment 79#?

    Oh Boomthorkell I forgot to mention that Mongols have more Indo-European or “white” admixture, than other Asians like Han and Koreans. There was clearly some mixing with ancient steppe Aryans, though not as much as in the case of Central Asian Türks.

    For the past two thousand years, the genetic flow in the steppes has gone from the east to the west. I do not deny that Khamag Mongols had no Paleo-Siberian admixture, but there was not much western eurasian heritage.

    Btw Reiner Tor, Aniko, or Anige according to my the site I linked, artist who draw Khubilais portrait, was not East Asian, but a Nepali man, so why he would have had problems with depictions of non-East Asians? And he knew Khubilai from his youth, and Great Khaan Khubilai was about 12 years old when Universal Khaan Chingghis passed away, therefore it is quite likely that Khubilai could remember how Chingghis looked and instruct Aniko in his work, which means that Great Khaan’s portrait is not any propaganda(“POLITICAL REASONS”), really you guys sound like black nationalists sound when talking about their hidden history or something?

    https://theme.npm.edu.tw/khan/Article.aspx?sNo=03009223&lang=2

    Records indicate that Anige did imperial portraits for the Yuan court, and the high quality and consistency of the portraits of Kublai, Chabi, and Targi suggest the same hand-perhaps that of Anige.

    Furthermore, the treatment of the transparent thin gauze along Targi’s forehead is similar to that found in 13th-century Nepalese thangka paintings which in turn derived from east Indian styles. Though not conclusively by Anige, these portraits must be closely related to him.

    The portrait of Chingghis must have been famous in the Mongol empire and there must have been a standardised depiction of him already before the rule of Khubilai Khaan, and I have a good reasons to believe so, for one of the princes of Rus, Mikhail Chernigovsky was ordered to bow before Great Khaans portrait in 1245, which famously led to the martyrdom of that poor and noble man.

    Hey Bashi did you know that there exists an ethnic group, officially recognised by the PRC, called White Mongols or Tsagaan Mongol, in Qinghai and Gansu provinces of China, H.H. Dalai Lama is partially related to them. By your logic they must look more Indo-European than other Mongols, right? Because they are the fricking WHITE Mongols, just like the WHITE Huns!

    How WHITE or WESTERN EURASIAN THEY LOOK! UNBELIEVABLE!

    Anyway, Eurasians are so closely related with each other that its very hard to discern if someone is 1/4 East Asian and 3/4 West European or vice versa. Like in the case of Keanu Reeves and Bruce Lee.

    • Replies: @Wignat is a slur
    @AltanBakshi

    The White Huns were white though (or more white than others).


    Procopius of Caesarea in the sixth century states that the Xionites were of the same stock as the European Huns, 'in fact as well as in name', but [the White Huns] were sedentary, white-skinned, and did not possess 'ugly features'
     
    https://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsFarEast/AsiaBactriaWhiteHuns.htm

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  254. @Mr. Hack
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Russians haven't been invaded by little green men from Ukraine. Haven't had chunks of their country ripped off by Ukrainian Svidos because they have "misbehaved". There are good reasons why Ukrainians, of all political stripes, are "obsessed" (concerned would be more accurate) with Russia.

    Replies: @Aedib

    Russians haven’t been invaded by little green men from Ukraine.

    Time to accept that Crimea is in Russia now because Crimeans decided to be Russians. The concept you refuse to accept is called DEMOCRACY.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Aedib

    What I call DEMOCRACY, doesn't come at the point of a Russian tank, run by "little green men" controlled by Kremlin strategists.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Aedib, @Marcus

  255. @Yellowface Anon
    @A123

    Instead of memes that reinforce GOP and Trumpist idiosyncracy have this little cuddling raccoon:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4kjCwrUUAcv8j9.jpg

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    What’s a better insult to your redneck fans than locking up the viewer seats because “COVID”, then installing screens for all the faces staring emptily into the simulacrum of simulacra? Pro Wrestling never has a good sense of aesthetics, but this is straight out of mortuaries. Keeping the seats empty or opening them at half capacity looks better (tho libertarians and maybe lots of redneck won’t return until there’s full seating and they don’t need a mask and vaccine passports for entry).

  256. @Aedib
    @Mr. Hack


    Russians haven’t been invaded by little green men from Ukraine.
     
    Time to accept that Crimea is in Russia now because Crimeans decided to be Russians. The concept you refuse to accept is called DEMOCRACY.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    What I call DEMOCRACY, doesn’t come at the point of a Russian tank, run by “little green men” controlled by Kremlin strategists.

    • Agree: Marcus
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Mr. Hack

    Have you seen the raccoon pic I posted an hour ago?

    The main purpose of voting is legitimizing the political system and political agendas made independently from actual popular desires (if any)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Aedib
    @Mr. Hack

    What the little green men did is just to deter the Svidos that wanted to kill Crimeans. They didn´t vote. Crimeans voted and decided to leave behind a “country” ruled by people that hate them to return to the true Motherland.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Marcus
    @Mr. Hack

    The USSR was at least respectable in that its subterfuge was generally top notch, the bungling Putin gov otoh has goons slinging novichok like paint. Remember when Putin himself denied that there were any Russian soldiers in Crimea??

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  257. @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    I have a friend in Minnesota who was of Norwegian descent on his father's side and French on his mother's side. He had somewhat dark skin and extremely dark eyes, and coal black hair. Overall, a dark complected sort of look. I always just wrote off his anomalous look to his French genes and let it go at that. Reading this thread has caused me to think about him and the overall topic of dark and tanning Scandinavians. Due to the marvels of the internet, I've been able to find several threads dedicated to the topic of "dark Norwegians" where even Swedes can be found to be darker than the "driven snows". This propensity towards darkness is definitely to be found within Scandinavia amongst a small but discernible subset that nobody seems to be able to explain away. Several theories abound. Some think that gypsies made it to Scandinvia and mixed in with the Aryan blondies, others think that certain subsets of the Finno-Ugrics were dark to begin with. I don't have any theories of my own, but have witnessed this phenomena first hand, in Minnesota. Of course I was also fortunate to see many good looking specimens of the blonde type too. Here's a photo of the later type that I knew in high school, who went on to make it in the world of musical entertainment:

    https://www.dakotacooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/700x400_Connie-Evingson_2.jpg
    The always lovely Connie Evingson!

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    others think that certain subsets of the Finno-Ugrics were dark to begin with.

    It could be the Sami heritage. Samis originally inhabited most of Finland, Northern half of Sweden and Norway, they were progressively pushed to North, but probably many of them were just assimilated by the Swedes, Finns and Norwegians.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    Look up Seima-Turbino and Akozino-Malar cultures.


    Obvious signs of the Scandinavian Bronze Age in the coastal zone of the modern Finland are stone cairns and certain bronze items. In the inland, ceramic studies give plenty of archaeological footprints of eastern connections to north-western Russia in the Early Metal Age. Axes of the Seima type have been found as stray finds in Finland (Table 1). Lacking archaeological find contexts, no dates can be provided for the individual items. Judging by the fact that early Textile ceramics in the area dates to the 20th century BCE, there is a strong reason to suggest that the Finnish Seima axe finds are as old as the Seima-Turbino phenomenon in Russia (Fig. 1). The local production of bronze implements might have begun in Finland at the end of the 2nd millennium BCE, which is the suggested date for the axes of Maaninka type (Table 2). The axe is the result of a challenging bronze technology, made by a skilled handicraftsman (Fig. 2). The very restricted distribution of this specific axe type suggests that it could be a local innovation. At the end of the 2nd millennium BCE, Akozino-Mälar axes spread over a large area: they are found all the way from central Sweden to the Middle-Volga region, including Finland (Fig. 3, Table 3). A few casting moulds of these axes are known in Finland, too. Only one bronze axe of Ananino type has been found in Finland and has the title of the youngest bronze axe in the country. However, a few axes of Ananino type were probably cast in the inland in the second half of the 1st millennium BCE, as a few casting moulds have been found (Fig. 4). Copper and bronze were imported goods that could not be mined anywhere in Finland in prehistoric times.
     
    Basically, modern day Scandinavian people are mainly a mix of different proportions of local native populations of Funnel Beaker Culture Y haplogroup I, the Eastern Bell Beaker folks of haplogroup R1b, the Corded Ware derived Battle Axe culture of Y haplogroup R1a and the Seima-Turbino and Akozino-Malar Ugric people of Y haplogroup N.

    Among these cultures only the Funnel Beaker Culture people, who were also close to the Megalithic Culture population of the Western Europe and British Isles, would have probably evolved in the Doggerland vicinity and would have had the phenotype corresponding to the climate of this region: cold and cloudy. The rest would have basically descended from the populations originating in Southern Siberia and who at their inception would have resembled their haplogroup Q ancestors, that is looking like Amerindian tribes.

    The American Indians were named Red Skins for a reason.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  258. @Mr. Hack
    @Aedib

    What I call DEMOCRACY, doesn't come at the point of a Russian tank, run by "little green men" controlled by Kremlin strategists.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Aedib, @Marcus

    Have you seen the raccoon pic I posted an hour ago?

    The main purpose of voting is legitimizing the political system and political agendas made independently from actual popular desires (if any)

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Yellowface Anon

    It' still a better system than conducting plebiscites at the point of a gun or tanks. Besides, political candidates like Trump that represent a disgruntled electorate that is hostile towards the status quo sometimes push through.

  259. @reiner Tor
    @Dmitry


    Wearing a high grade mask
     
    Like I said, I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    I expected you to argue against my post, but you didn’t. But I will write points anyway I would have responded as it clarifies some of the earlier discussion.

    “Collective immunity” is a tautology, or analytic statement, which is useful for clarifying our language, but which we can adjust like a sliding rule (by changing this “R number”) to match what is seen in real world example. For example, epidemiologists even now introduce the concept of “super spreaders” within the analytic statement; viewing “R number” is the average number infected, and then you can also enter a dispersion parameter, such as standard deviation of the number of infected.

    In so far as the observed scenario (for example, the situation in Israel), we saw a 55% vaccination rate of Pfizer had been sufficient to reduce the infection wave of the Alpha variant to a very low level, in which outdoor mask mandate could be removed, and for short time indoor masking too.

    Does this imply that R0 of the alpha variant is less than 2,23? Well, the R0 will vary from country and society, and there the distinction between R0 and Rt is a little arbitrary. It is probably very useful language for the epidemiologist community to communicate between each other though.

    55% vaccination rate with Pfizer, while indoor masks were used, resulted in almost “zero covid” with the Alpha variant. So we can be optimistic that the developed countries will soon reach the threshold where the epidemic is easy to control, and the chance of infection becomes very low regardless of your personal vaccination status.

    Like I said, I wish you good luck in your gas masks.

    Contrary to anti-mask views, it would have been the most timely, as well as lowest cost and highest convenience intervention, along with installation of an adequate indoor ventilation.

    Fighting pandemics should be like this, from highest to lowest:

    1. PPE, ventilation. (i.e. engineering solutions, using mature technology, all fast available at low cost)

    2. Travel bans, quarantines. (social policies – rapidly available, but temporarily expensive)

    3. Mass vaccination of the population until there is sufficient collective immunity. (Waiting for the pharmaceutical industry to rescue you – this should be viewed as “Minimax” kind of insurance when everything else failed, as it did)

    4. “Swedish approach”, of allowing the virus to pass through the population until there is sufficient natural immunity, with possible annual repeats (something which appeals to fans of Russian “avos”)

    • Replies: @utu
    @Dmitry

    Objective 1: Zero virus importation strategy - travel bans, strict quarantine for new arrivals

    Objective 2: Fastest path to reduction of Rt to less than 1

    (2a) universal masking (issues of good/bad masks, compliance, etc.)

    (2b) contact tracing with strict quarantine for potential carriers (this will be effective if number of new daily infections n is less than the critical threshold n_crit of contact tracing system ability, which depends on Rt)

    (2c) local lockdowns (when critical threshold of contact tracing system ability is crossed: n>n_crit, Rt significantly higher than 1)

    Objective 3: Herd immunity via vaccination

    O1 is no-brainer and you do it on the day one. O2a is also no-brainer. Then depending on n, n_crit and Rt you do O2c or stay with O2b. You proceed with O3 as soon as vaccines become available and you start vaccinations with the most vulnerable and with the potential super spreaders.

    What metric is minimized by the three objectives? The number of cumulative infections N(t) in time from 0 to t, so N(t) is the lowest at any given t. Because mortality (IFR) is an exponential function of age one could minimize the cumulative number of deaths. N(t)*IFR by applying counter measures selectively depending on age brackets of subpopulations to reduce Rt faster within the older subpopulation.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Yellowface Anon

  260. @Dmitry
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Your sexual attraction to women or men is not determined by fashion trends, as I'm sure you noticed from your own life. These are quite inbuilt desires. The rate of the non-heterosexual desiring people will be constant; what changes is the attitude of the rest of the society to the people with minority desires.

    In Western Europe, there is a current fashion to use the sexual minorities for virtue signalling about the society's tolerance, as the previous fashion had been to use ethnic minorities for this purpose - however, they may become more visible, the proportion of the people with non-heterosexual sexuality will be the same as always. Even in Islamist societies like Iran, it is a situation where they punish the visibility of sexual minorities, and it won't likely effect their actual number.

    In the 20th century culture, it was common for homosexual men to marry women, and having children in order to reduce visibility of their minority status: e.g. Sviatoslav Richter, Vladimir Horowitz, John Maynard Keynes.

    But the behaviour of a small minority of homosexual men to reduce their visibility, will not effect fertility rates. And according to stable population theory, the population replacement is determined by women's fertility.

    Replies: @Wency, @Boomthorkell

    Your sexual attraction to women or men is not determined by fashion trends, as I’m sure you noticed from your own life.

    The decision to have children *is* determined by fashion trends. It’s a choice, and nowadays is largely decoupled from sex even among the low IQ.

    Western fashion presents a traditional heterosexual marriage with children as the most boring and white bread of all couples, while doubling down on the notion that having children is merely one lifestyle choice among many and not a social expectation. That is the part that impacts fertility.

  261. @Anatoly Karlin
    This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes - within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

    Replies: @Jim Christian, @Mikhail, @Blinky Bill, @Dissident, @Grahamsno(G64)

    30/06/21

    Someone posted this more than a decade ago.

    [MORE]

    After suppressing military spending from the late 1970’s to the early 2000’s in order to free up its energies for rapid economic growth, the People’s Liberation Army is now being paid back handsomely for its patience. A prescient quotation from the Economist in 1986, from the days when the magazine was still worth reading:

    For China’s military men with the patience to see the economic reforms through, there is a payoff. If Mr. Deng’s plans for the economy as a whole are allowed to run their course, and the value of China’s output quadruples, as planned, between 1980 and 2000 (admittedly big ifs), then 10 to 15 years down the line the civilian economy should have picked up enough steam to haul the military sector along more rapidly. That is when China’s army, its neighbors and the big powers will really have something to think about.

    That time is now. Defense spending is now rising faster than GDP, as China intensifies military modernization and acquires new capabilities in electronic, information, and anti-satellite warfare. The overall strategic balance has also changed. The dissolution of the Soviet Union meant that the old Chinese fear of a tank invasion from the north has dissipated; coupled with the growing importance of maritime trade and foreign energy supplies, this has produced a reorientation to coastal defense and broader power projection to the south and east. China’s most ambitious military project is its decision to embark on the construction of a real blue-water navy, a vital tool in the renewed “gunboat diplomacy” we are likely to see in the years ahead.

    ▲▼In the short term, this has extended to China acquiring Russian weapons such as four Sovremenny-class guided missile destroyers, twelve Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines, and advanced anti-ship missiles and supercavitating torpedoes such as the Sunburn, Sizzler, and Shkval. Domestic production of naval vessels is expanding rapidly: whereas US shipbuilding is withering away, China now accounts for a third of global shipbuilding and “is in the midst of a shipbuilding and acquisition craze that will result in the People’s Liberation Army Navy having more ships than the U.S. Navy sometime in the next decade”, including four aircraft carriers by 2020.

    6 launched if not commissioned by the years end.

    • Thanks: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Blinky Bill

    https://twitter.com/RickJoe_PLA/status/1410343266659180545?s=20

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5RZkQMXIAI5LeG.jpg

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

  262. @Yellowface Anon
    @Bashibuzuk

    It was the Jews, but only as the first ethnos to achieve the proto-liberal status of rootless cosmopolitans, and contributing their mindset to subsequent elites who may or may not have connections to Judaism. I'm not a fan of essentializing a race or an ethnos.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk, @AltanBakshi

    I’m not a fan of essentializing a race or an ethnos.

    Somewhat same with me, but rootless cosmopolitans are not preoccupied with their own nation state and nationalism, even without mentioning that they really do have an ethnocentric religion.

    To understand where the future may lead us, we must first know our past. It’s not very likely that China will become a Swiss style democracy in this century, right?

  263. @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack

    A fly in svido ointment: hysterical svido Nitsoy (self- appointment children's writer) has already attacked the guy who scored for speaking Russian at the press conference. Madhouse inmates stay true to form.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    The “fly in the ointment” is that this super-jock sports dude hadn’t realized that he was playing for the Ukrainian national team. Unless he was an import from Russia or Kazakhstan he should have been able to string together a couple of sentences in Ukrainian. Ukrainian or Russian speaking athletes that play in the US are able speak in English when interviewed. The guy must have been, eh.., how do they put it at this blog, a “low- IQ” individual. 🙂

    • LOL: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Mr. Hack

    How many of the Scot and Irish athletes speak their respective native tongue?

    BTW, Ukrainian football (soccer) is sovok in its construction. 17 of its players come from the top two club teams - Dynamo Kiev and Shaktar Donetsk. The Latvian ice hockey team carries on like that as well, relative to Dynamo Riga.

    Recall Soviet national ice hockey teams typically having anywhere from 20% to 50% of its players coming from CSKA Moscow. A smilar pattern existed with other Soviet national sports teams often comprised of athletes from 1-2 club teams.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @kzn
    @Mr. Hack

    LOL, typical self-hating, cursed-in-hell Banderetard..... claims to support the team - except doesn't after 2 seconds

    The captain Yarmolenko I have only ever heard speaking in....... Russian

    The star player, the most famous player on the team, the guy who was interviewed after the Sweden game so the man you are referring to as "low IQ".. .. is a guy who with his parents fled from the Ukronazis coming to Donbass for war crimes. Where they went to?....... Russia
    As with anybody with a brain in the "Ukraine" he speaks exclusively in Russian you idiot. Although probably wary of Svidi BS and death threats he has recently started doing short text posts on Instagram in "Ukrainian"
    How rude of the stupid Soros bitch to ask him questions in "Ukrainian" to a tired guy who has effectively ran half a marathon over 120 minutes and she knows will reply in Russian?

    The coach, and most successful Ukrainian post 1991,Andrey Shevchenko speaks exclusively in........ Russian

    He's great friends with Abramovich

    He delivers his instructions to the team in..... Russian

    So the entire team is speaking in..... Russian (noticing a pattern here?) LOL

    I think only 1 guy in the team is even from Galicia/f*ckheadistan

    Idiot

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

  264. @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg


    You clearly didn’t take the time to read what I posted.
     
    You were clearly implying that Chingghis was more Europid in appearance than present day Mongols which just shows how ignorant you are about Mongol history. I have no bias in this matter, I am myself a man of mixed origins, therefore why I would have a need to prove the East Asianness of ancient Mongols?

    The Tashtyk culture was first surveyed by the Russian archaeologist Sergei Teploukhov.[3] Teploukhov suggested that it had been initially Indo-European dominated, only to become overcome by the Yenisei Kirghiz around the 3rd century AD.[3] The Yenisei Kirghiz are often associated with the Tashtyk culture.[4]
     
    Yenisei Kyrgyz lived in Krasnoyarsk Krai, quite far away from the original homeland of the Mongols.

    There then followed the Tashtyk culture (200 B.C. to A.D. 200), which corresponds to the Hunnic period in Central Eurasia and represents a major intrusion of a new Mongoloid population into the Minusinsk Basin.
     
    Yep, the Turks came from the east.

    Originally Mongols came from the borderlands of Eastern Mongolia and Manchuria, they drove away the original inhabitants of the lands, Uyghurs, and mixed heavily with the remnants. Now when you think of Uyghurs, you probably think of the present day inhabitants of Xinjiang/Eastern Turkestan, but present day Uyghurs are a mix of original Indo-Europeans of Tarim Basin and Uyghurs who escaped Mongol conquest. There's a lot of archeological and forensic evidence of how ancient Steppe Uyghurs looked like, and they looked very Mongolic. You are now Bashi very anachronistic in your attitude.

    IE folks lived in Tarin basin and Ordos area about 2000 years ago, they were already pushed to west by Turkic people long before the coming of the Mongols, who lived east from Turks in the grasslands of Hulunbuir and forest steppe of Manchuria. So original Uyghurs were very East Asian in appearance, and only later mixed with IE people! Which then means that populations living east of Uyghurs, were quite likely East Asian in their appearance! Especially when we take into consideration that there are no proof of Scythians living east of Tuva, or other IE speakers living east of Ordos.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qocho
    If you check this link you can see various surviving ancient depictions of Uyghurs, they did not look very Indo-European.


    Börte & Sorghaghtani Beki . You are probably aware that a child usually has a father and a mother?
     
    Both women were from ethnic groups that were closely related with Mongols, Sorhagtani was a Keraite, and Keraites were lived further west than Mongols, if anything it would be more likely that she had more European admixture than members of original Mongol tribal confederation.

    That’s exactly what happened with the Borjigin clan and this is exactly what I also wrote. They had recessive traits which were lost through admixture. These recessive traits are not originally found in earliest Altaic populations (that would be Okunevo culture). Later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree with a very diverse assemblage of populations including various proportions of Western Eurasian (mainly Scythian) people and Ugric (from Sargat) people.
     
    I do agree that later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree, but your whole premise of possible Indo-European admixture of original Mongols is based on what some Persian Jew thought as the origin of the word Borjigin. Rashid al-Din Hamadani was the adviser and vizier of Ghazan Khan. Ghazan was a Muslim and descendant of Chingghis in, what, in 8th generation or something? So your whole thesis is build on what Rashid had heard from Persianate and Islamised Mongols of Iran, far removed from their roots!

    In my life I have often noticed that Russian language sources are much better in regards of the history of Steppes than the English language ones. Situation was same with Tibetology, but during the last few decades studies in English language have greatly improved.


    Here is what Russian wikipedia says about the word Borjigin.

    Согласно Аюудайн Очиру, две составляющие слова «борджигин» — «бор» и «джигин» происходят из протоалтайского языка, из которого развилась алтайская языковая семья. Монгольское слово бор (boru) переводится как «светло-серый, серый, буланый с серым оттенком, синеватый серый»[3]. Монголы словом бөртэ также именуют волчонка[4]. В бурятском языке, слово буртэ имеется в сочетаниях „хухэ буртэ шоно — матерый серый волк”[5], „буртэ-гэрхэн — серенький”[6], т. е. значение этого слова ~ серый[7]. Аналогом в тюркских языках является слово böri, büri[3].

    Под словом жигин в монгольских языках подразумевается титул родственников хаганов, а также возвеличивающий имя принца[3][8]. В тюркских языках термин известен в формах сыгин[7] и тегин. Согласно Э. Дж. Пуллиблэнку, титул тегин происходит из хуннского титула ту-ци (по переводу «Хань шу» — ‘мудрый’ или ‘достойный’). По его мнению, до тюрков титул тегин был распространен у эфталитов и древних монголов тоба[9]. Версия происхождения этнонима «борджигин» от слов бөри «волк» и тегин «принц» получила поддержку ряда других учёных[7][8].

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Борджигин
     

    Wolf sounds quite much more likely, especially when wolf was the ancestral animal of the Mongols.

    You are being the weirdo racialist here. I am writing that the Early Steppe Empires were polyethnic and interracial, including both Eastern Eurasian and Western Eurasian genetic lineages on top of Ugric genetic inflow. You are insisting that somehow your Mongol ancestors weren’t adnixed.
     
    Hey, hey who is now not reading? Did you not read my comment 79#?

    Oh Boomthorkell I forgot to mention that Mongols have more Indo-European or “white” admixture, than other Asians like Han and Koreans. There was clearly some mixing with ancient steppe Aryans, though not as much as in the case of Central Asian Türks.

     

    For the past two thousand years, the genetic flow in the steppes has gone from the east to the west. I do not deny that Khamag Mongols had no Paleo-Siberian admixture, but there was not much western eurasian heritage.

    Btw Reiner Tor, Aniko, or Anige according to my the site I linked, artist who draw Khubilais portrait, was not East Asian, but a Nepali man, so why he would have had problems with depictions of non-East Asians? And he knew Khubilai from his youth, and Great Khaan Khubilai was about 12 years old when Universal Khaan Chingghis passed away, therefore it is quite likely that Khubilai could remember how Chingghis looked and instruct Aniko in his work, which means that Great Khaan's portrait is not any propaganda("POLITICAL REASONS"), really you guys sound like black nationalists sound when talking about their hidden history or something?


    https://theme.npm.edu.tw/khan/Article.aspx?sNo=03009223&lang=2

    Records indicate that Anige did imperial portraits for the Yuan court, and the high quality and consistency of the portraits of Kublai, Chabi, and Targi suggest the same hand-perhaps that of Anige.

    Furthermore, the treatment of the transparent thin gauze along Targi's forehead is similar to that found in 13th-century Nepalese thangka paintings which in turn derived from east Indian styles. Though not conclusively by Anige, these portraits must be closely related to him.
     

    The portrait of Chingghis must have been famous in the Mongol empire and there must have been a standardised depiction of him already before the rule of Khubilai Khaan, and I have a good reasons to believe so, for one of the princes of Rus, Mikhail Chernigovsky was ordered to bow before Great Khaans portrait in 1245, which famously led to the martyrdom of that poor and noble man.

    Hey Bashi did you know that there exists an ethnic group, officially recognised by the PRC, called White Mongols or Tsagaan Mongol, in Qinghai and Gansu provinces of China, H.H. Dalai Lama is partially related to them. By your logic they must look more Indo-European than other Mongols, right? Because they are the fricking WHITE Mongols, just like the WHITE Huns!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF_ob3ZUEAAZpE8.jpg

    How WHITE or WESTERN EURASIAN THEY LOOK! UNBELIEVABLE!

    Anyway, Eurasians are so closely related with each other that its very hard to discern if someone is 1/4 East Asian and 3/4 West European or vice versa. Like in the case of Keanu Reeves and Bruce Lee.

    Replies: @Wignat is a slur

    The White Huns were white though (or more white than others).

    Procopius of Caesarea in the sixth century states that the Xionites were of the same stock as the European Huns, ‘in fact as well as in name’, but [the White Huns] were sedentary, white-skinned, and did not possess ‘ugly features’

    https://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsFarEast/AsiaBactriaWhiteHuns.htm

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Wignat is a slur

    Of course it's possible that White Huns were European looking, but tribal moniker white, and some Iranic loan words are not enough for claiming that some people were racially Asian or European. Bengali language has many words of Persian origin, is that proof of blood kinship or just cultural interaction?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  265. @AltanBakshi
    @Dmitry

    Maybe it is similar fallacy as claiming that eating of ice cream lessens the risk of getting flu. When it's just that people eat more ice cream in summer, when it's warm and not cold and wet.

    Perhaps Swedish women who are tanned, just spend more time on outdoors, doing sports, and other fitness related stuff? When pale women are more often overweight, avoid sports, etc... Japanese women are very healthy and live long, but I think that most Japanese of older generations have done their best in avoiding of direct sunlight. Actually Japanese women live longer on average than Swedish women.


    By comparison, the first Jewish communities in Siberia a century earlier formed partly by Jewish settlers marrying local Kalmyk women.
     
    Not possible, Kalmyks were Cossacks, and Jews were not allowed to their ranks. Maybe buying surviving Dzungar slave women from Khalkhas and Kazakhs? Dzungar genocide and enslavement of remnants happened in the 18th century, That's only chance how such exception was possible. Please could you say where you found this information?

    Replies: @Dmitry

    similar fallacy as claiming

    Well it’s just a correlation, found in an observational study.

    However, there is at least also one of the possible proposed physical mechanisms: “when he exposed volunteers to the equivalent of 30 minutes of summer sunlight without sunscreen, their nitric oxide levels went up and their blood pressure went down. Because of its connection to heart disease and strokes, blood pressure is the leading cause of premature death”

    So it is a hypothesis they could now try to test.

    Not possible, Kalmyks were Cossacks,

    When the Jews have been exiled, or voluntarily settled, in Siberia, there were many more males than females. Jews became important in the fur trading industry in Siberia. They could marry Russian women, only if they abandoned the religion. But they were able to get dispensation to convert Kalmyk women to Judaism, so they had famously established the Siberian Jewish community with Kalmyk women that were converted to Judaism.

    This is reported in mainstream sources in Russian. But from English – here was an example: https://books.google.ru/books?id=ZZ2MCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA14

    There is a general trend in the Russian Empire/Soviet Union, that the more East you settled, the more tolerance or normality became to multinational marriage.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Dmitry

    Yup, your source affirms what I thought, they bought those women. Russians also called Dzungar/Oirats of the East by the name of Kalmyk. Well, maybe not ideal, but good that those Jews saved them from being sex slaves in the brothels of Central Asia, which was the destiny of many other surviving Oirat women in those times

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @Dmitry

    Now I know where Lenin's dad got his looks!

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Ilya_Nikolaevich_Ulyanox.jpg/220px-Ilya_Nikolaevich_Ulyanox.jpg

  266. @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    Guardian, eh? This is quote from the link you posted:
    “But Birch-Machin is dubious about races such as the Swedes having any real advantage over us in the tanning stakes.”
     
    You quote selectively. From the same link:

    James Scott, director of the genetics and genomics research institute at Imperial College London, thinks that from a genetic perspective, the British should be more likely to toast to a gentle brown than their cousins from more northerly latitudes.

    The genetic differences among northern Europeans are minuscule, he says, and any golden glow from the Baltic could be, he says, an "observer artefact".

    But he is not certain of that. "Either the genetics is subtly different in Swedes, such that they have blond hair and fair skin but the propensity to develop more melanin when they see the sun, " Professor Scott says. "[Or] maybe there is a form of conditioning in which the genes get set by environmental triggers in a particular sort of way."

    You really are wrong, it’s just that modern Swedes, especially many young women, are obsessed with sunbathing, thus with dedication and work you can get even Swedish skin tanned.
     
    It doesn't take "dedication" for Swedes. And with dedication you can't get Irish skin tan in such a way.

    Another observation (random from google, which reflects how common it is):

    https://www.datalounge.com/thread/21812719-olive-skinned-scandinavians

    I travel to Denmark and Sweden quite a bit for work. One thing that’s always perplexed me is the large number of natives who have light blond hair and tan skin. It’s very striking. You can tell it’s not from tanning, how did this happen?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AltanBakshi

    https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/5123470

    Scandinavian countries have the highest number of skin cancer cases in all of Europe, despite having the most sun-deprived climates. Sweden leads the Nordic countries, with 45,000 people diagnosed with skin cancer each year. 500 die from the disease annually, in particular from melanoma, which is more than the yearly total of fatalities from road traffic accidents.

    Johan Hansson, a doctor at Karolinska hospital, and one of the conference’s organizers, says skin cancer has been on the rise in Sweden since the 1960s, and shows little signs of slowing down as the Swedes are a sun-worshipping nation.

    “Swedes do not live in a sunny country, but we almost worship the sun. Since we are an affluent country we can afford to go abroad during summer and during winter”, Hansson tells Radio Sweden.

    “Many people travel to Asia, for instance, and get a very strong stan in a short amount of time. This is something that shows up now in cancer statistics, unfortunately”, he says.

    One of the issues being discussed at the conference is the use of tanning beds, a practice which is popular in Sweden, especially during those sun starved winter months. While many countries have banned tanning beds entirely due to the proven link between their use and skin cancer, tanning beds can be found in swimming pools and sports halls in all of Sweden’s municipalities. Phillipe Autier, a physician from France, has been researching into link between the use of tanning beds and melanoma.

    Sweden is one of the champions in the world for indoor UV-tanning. Teenagers and young women are crazy about keeping a tan. But also, it’s a question of feeling well. During the long winter, there is a need to get some light”, Autier says

    Okay, I admit that it’s little bit harder for British to get tanned, but we both forget what either of us was comparing to. I compared Nordics to Northeast Asians, and I’ve never been on a sunny vacation or on the beach with Britons, so from my perspective Nordics do not tan easily. To me they have always been the standard of people who don’t tan easily.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AltanBakshi


    Okay, I admit that it’s little bit harder for British to get tanned, but we both forget what either of us was comparing to. I compared Nordics to Northeast Asians, and I’ve never been on a sunny vacation or on the beach with Britons, so from my perspective Nordics do not tan easily.
     
    And I don't know enough about NE Asians to compare. Nordics tan about as easily as do Ukrainians or Poles, and a lot more easily than do Irish or Scots. That is, if a Nordic person chooses to tan in summer they will get a deep tan.

    This is to be expected because in summer Sweden gets sunny and days are very long. Being unable to tan and instead burning would be very maladaptive in such an environment.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  267. @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    You clearly didn't take the time to read what I posted.

    If there is a surviving drawing of Khubilai, drawn by a man who knew him well, and that drawing clearly depicts man with heavy Mongolian features, how you can still imply that Mongols were somehow not Mongolic?
     

    Börte & Sorghaghtani Beki . You are probably aware that a child usually has a father and a mother?

    Blue or green eyes, ginger or blond hair are extremely recessive and disappear if populations do not stay isolated,
     
    That's exactly what happened with the Borjigin clan and this is exactly what I also wrote. They had recessive traits which were lost through admixture. These recessive traits are not originally found in earliest Altaic populations (that would be Okunevo culture). Later Altaic populations are all admixed to a various degree with a very diverse assemblage of populations including various proportions of Western Eurasian (mainly Scythian) people and Ugric (from Sargat) people.

    weirdo racialists.
     
    You are being the weirdo racialist here. I am writing that the Early Steppe Empires were polyethnic and interracial, including both Eastern Eurasian and Western Eurasian genetic lineages on top of Ugric genetic inflow. You are insisting that somehow your Mongol ancestors weren't adnixed.

    How you fool explain this phenomenon then?
     
    I was going to mention the association of Red hair color with the "demonic" traits in the Han mythology. And was also going to write about the Honghuzi bandits to demonstrate that the Han saw these traits as alien and menacing since times immemorial, since the times they had to battle and assimilate early Steppe Barbarian people who often had these phenotypic traits. I didn't mention it for two reasons: 1) largely irrelevant, 2) a stretch too far to make a point that should be obvious.

    Clearly some of you unz readers are extremely shallow…
     
    Yeah, sure. Now go and take the time to carefully re-read my comment because you clearly come as a shallow reader yourself.

    And Hephtalite Huns were called White because they were more Iranic / Sarmatian admixed than the Xiongnu. The early kings of the White Huns had typical Indo-Iranian names such as Mihrakula, demonstrating their attachment to archaic Indo-Iranian cult of Mihr (Mithras) that was also historically well attested among the Parthians. Thing is your view of Altaic populations' ethnogenesis is lacking.

    Now go educate yourself:

    https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31321-0?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0092867420313210%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

    Replies: @sher singh, @AltanBakshi, @Morton's toes

    > I was going to mention the association of Red hair color with the “demonic” traits in the Han mythology.

    I would be very interested to know where I could find out more about this.

    Did anybody else notice that in the movie edition of War and Peace the only two blonde actors in the whole movie are the villains Helene and Anatole?

    *Most people consider Helene and Anatole just about the only two villains in the work but I did once get flamed to hell and back on the internet for writing that. Some people consider Tolstoy way too sophisticated an artist to use crude tropes like villainy. : )

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Morton's toes


    I would be very interested to know where I could find out more about this.
     
    I am Chinese and am unaware of this mythological association. Chinese mythology doesn't have monsters in the same way as the proliferation and standardization of Japanese oni seem to have: it's usually a lot more like kitsunes or zombies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_White_Snake

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiangshi

    I guess it is an interpretation of a very direct slur.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ang_mo

    That appears to be a direct descendants of Dutch conflicts and is of fairly recent origin.


    During the 17th century, the Dutch East India Company failed in its attempt to force their way into Fujian to trade in the 1620s during the Sino-Dutch conflicts and were called ang mo by the locals.
     

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Morton's toes

    , @Bashibuzuk
    @Morton's toes

    Please see my comment above. The demons were not blond but specifically red haired. The Russian transliteration of their Chinese name is Гуй (probably Gouy in Latin transliteration?)

    https://china-underground.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Raising-the-Alms-bowl-The-Conversion-of-Hariti-the-Mother-of-Demons-III-1024x778.jpg

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  268. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @Mr. Hack


    others think that certain subsets of the Finno-Ugrics were dark to begin with.
     
    It could be the Sami heritage. Samis originally inhabited most of Finland, Northern half of Sweden and Norway, they were progressively pushed to North, but probably many of them were just assimilated by the Swedes, Finns and Norwegians.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Look up Seima-Turbino and Akozino-Malar cultures.

    Obvious signs of the Scandinavian Bronze Age in the coastal zone of the modern Finland are stone cairns and certain bronze items. In the inland, ceramic studies give plenty of archaeological footprints of eastern connections to north-western Russia in the Early Metal Age. Axes of the Seima type have been found as stray finds in Finland (Table 1). Lacking archaeological find contexts, no dates can be provided for the individual items. Judging by the fact that early Textile ceramics in the area dates to the 20th century BCE, there is a strong reason to suggest that the Finnish Seima axe finds are as old as the Seima-Turbino phenomenon in Russia (Fig. 1). The local production of bronze implements might have begun in Finland at the end of the 2nd millennium BCE, which is the suggested date for the axes of Maaninka type (Table 2). The axe is the result of a challenging bronze technology, made by a skilled handicraftsman (Fig. 2). The very restricted distribution of this specific axe type suggests that it could be a local innovation. At the end of the 2nd millennium BCE, Akozino-Mälar axes spread over a large area: they are found all the way from central Sweden to the Middle-Volga region, including Finland (Fig. 3, Table 3). A few casting moulds of these axes are known in Finland, too. Only one bronze axe of Ananino type has been found in Finland and has the title of the youngest bronze axe in the country. However, a few axes of Ananino type were probably cast in the inland in the second half of the 1st millennium BCE, as a few casting moulds have been found (Fig. 4). Copper and bronze were imported goods that could not be mined anywhere in Finland in prehistoric times.

    Basically, modern day Scandinavian people are mainly a mix of different proportions of local native populations of Funnel Beaker Culture Y haplogroup I, the Eastern Bell Beaker folks of haplogroup R1b, the Corded Ware derived Battle Axe culture of Y haplogroup R1a and the Seima-Turbino and Akozino-Malar Ugric people of Y haplogroup N.

    Among these cultures only the Funnel Beaker Culture people, who were also close to the Megalithic Culture population of the Western Europe and British Isles, would have probably evolved in the Doggerland vicinity and would have had the phenotype corresponding to the climate of this region: cold and cloudy. The rest would have basically descended from the populations originating in Southern Siberia and who at their inception would have resembled their haplogroup Q ancestors, that is looking like Amerindian tribes.

    The American Indians were named Red Skins for a reason.

    • Thanks: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Bashibuzuk


    The American Indians were named Red Skins for a reason.
     
    One also runs into this red hue of skin tone in Mexico and Central America too, more of it as the person who exhibits this lovely hue is more purely native Indian. I really find this reddish coppertone to be quite attractive, apparently at one time so did a lot of WASPs. :-)

    https://www.allthingstanning.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/COPPERTONE-6-150x150.png

  269. @Wignat is a slur
    @AltanBakshi

    The White Huns were white though (or more white than others).


    Procopius of Caesarea in the sixth century states that the Xionites were of the same stock as the European Huns, 'in fact as well as in name', but [the White Huns] were sedentary, white-skinned, and did not possess 'ugly features'
     
    https://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsFarEast/AsiaBactriaWhiteHuns.htm

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Of course it’s possible that White Huns were European looking, but tribal moniker white, and some Iranic loan words are not enough for claiming that some people were racially Asian or European. Bengali language has many words of Persian origin, is that proof of blood kinship or just cultural interaction?

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    White Huns were admixed, just like the Xiongnu and the Western Huns of Attila were admixed. What was different is the proportions of the admixture. The Hephtalite had a higher proportion of Indo-Iranian ancestry.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Dilberjin_attendants.jpg/132px-Dilberjin_attendants.jpg

    All early Steppe Empires were polyethnic (Gök Turks come to mind).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrks

    Some later Turkic people were also more European looking than others: Polovtsy / Cumans were supposedly often blond (from the Old Slavic root *polvъ "pale; light yellow; blonde").

    It has left its genetic imprint on the Central Asian people. It is just that the more recessive traits originating in the Corded Ware derived Indo-Iranian populations got progressively diluted into near extinction. But even if the phenotype is rare, the genetic lineages are still there, for example around 50% of modern Kirghiz are Y haplogroup R1a, like their Indo-Iranian ancestors 2000 years ago.

    And sometimes you have backcross breeding situations:

    https://ru.sputnik.kg/photo/20170926/1035410475/sary-kyrgyzy-fotopodborka.html

    Something similar might have happened among the Borjigin as well. And sorry, but the fact that Rashid-ud Din was a born a Persian Jew is not enough to disqualify his testimony about the origins and the looks of Genghis Khan and his ancestors.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  270. @AltanBakshi
    @Beckow


    well-socialised, career-oriented people will go out of their way to be inoffensive even when a single Third World migrant or a gender deviant is around. Feminised societies suppress conflict as top priority and with women in charge everywhere it is safer to bend over backwards and not stand out.
     
    You are now speaking of petit bourgeois folks, this is just bonus for oligarchs, such conformist people make good servants.

    I agree, that’s is happening, but I would drop trying to create part. They don’t know what they are doing.
     
    Its clear that at least some US governmental agencies, companies and oligarchs were trying to increase societal grievances during the Trump presidency. What else that is than planned weaponisation of radical movements and ideologies? Also if one has followed few generations western media, it is quite clear that there are some kind of propaganda directives. There must be some kind of central planning for execution of such policies.

    Replies: @Beckow, @AnotherTitus

    …at least some US governmental agencies, companies and oligarchs were trying to increase societal grievances during the Trump presidency.

    I am sure that’s true but it doesn’t mean they know what they are doing. If there was a competent central plan, it would be better managed. Come on, bats?, Russian saboteurs on Facebook? – this is amateur hour, maybe oligarchs don’t deserve those bonuses.

    60-70% of people are naturally conformist – that holds across all IQ segments. It doesn’t take much to get them to jump of cliffs. Let’s not be too harsh on the petti-bourgeois, it is a fun lifestyle: jams in cupboards, deferring to experts, obedient vaccinations, and harmless Downton Abbey dreams. They know when it is safe to laugh and at what, and they instinctively know that resistance is risky. They may outlive us… even here on Unz when pressed, people revert to the safety of their mind-space, they have already been vaccinated against most dissent – they just don’t know it.

  271. @Dmitry
    @AltanBakshi


    similar fallacy as claiming
     
    Well it's just a correlation, found in an observational study.

    However, there is at least also one of the possible proposed physical mechanisms: "when he exposed volunteers to the equivalent of 30 minutes of summer sunlight without sunscreen, their nitric oxide levels went up and their blood pressure went down. Because of its connection to heart disease and strokes, blood pressure is the leading cause of premature death"

    So it is a hypothesis they could now try to test.


    Not possible, Kalmyks were Cossacks,

     

    When the Jews have been exiled, or voluntarily settled, in Siberia, there were many more males than females. Jews became important in the fur trading industry in Siberia. They could marry Russian women, only if they abandoned the religion. But they were able to get dispensation to convert Kalmyk women to Judaism, so they had famously established the Siberian Jewish community with Kalmyk women that were converted to Judaism.

    This is reported in mainstream sources in Russian. But from English - here was an example: https://books.google.ru/books?id=ZZ2MCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA14

    There is a general trend in the Russian Empire/Soviet Union, that the more East you settled, the more tolerance or normality became to multinational marriage.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Bashibuzuk

    Yup, your source affirms what I thought, they bought those women. Russians also called Dzungar/Oirats of the East by the name of Kalmyk. Well, maybe not ideal, but good that those Jews saved them from being sex slaves in the brothels of Central Asia, which was the destiny of many other surviving Oirat women in those times

  272. Bashibuzuk says:
    @AltanBakshi
    @Wignat is a slur

    Of course it's possible that White Huns were European looking, but tribal moniker white, and some Iranic loan words are not enough for claiming that some people were racially Asian or European. Bengali language has many words of Persian origin, is that proof of blood kinship or just cultural interaction?

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    White Huns were admixed, just like the Xiongnu and the Western Huns of Attila were admixed. What was different is the proportions of the admixture. The Hephtalite had a higher proportion of Indo-Iranian ancestry.

    All early Steppe Empires were polyethnic (Gök Turks come to mind).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrks

    Some later Turkic people were also more European looking than others: Polovtsy / Cumans were supposedly often blond (from the Old Slavic root *polvъ “pale; light yellow; blonde”).

    It has left its genetic imprint on the Central Asian people. It is just that the more recessive traits originating in the Corded Ware derived Indo-Iranian populations got progressively diluted into near extinction. But even if the phenotype is rare, the genetic lineages are still there, for example around 50% of modern Kirghiz are Y haplogroup R1a, like their Indo-Iranian ancestors 2000 years ago.

    And sometimes you have backcross breeding situations:

    https://ru.sputnik.kg/photo/20170926/1035410475/sary-kyrgyzy-fotopodborka.html

    Something similar might have happened among the Borjigin as well. And sorry, but the fact that Rashid-ud Din was a born a Persian Jew is not enough to disqualify his testimony about the origins and the looks of Genghis Khan and his ancestors.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    By the way it's been long time since I last read about this stuff, so I mistakenly remembered that Mongols drove Uyghurs out of Mongolia, but it was Yenisey Kyrgyz, and not Mongols, and only afterwards Mongolic Khitans came from the East and conquered most of present day Mongolia.


    And sorry, but the fact that Rashid-ud Din was a born a Persian Jew is not enough to disqualify his testimony about the origins and the looks of Genghis Khan and his ancestors.


     

    Doesn't matter if he was Greek or Persian, what matters that he was dealing with Islamised Mongols who had never seen Chingghis Khaan and his children, unlike Khubilai and members of his court.

    And sometimes you have backcross breeding situations:

    https://ru.sputnik.kg/photo/20170926/1035410475/sary-kyrgyzy-fotopodborka.html
     

    That's only natural, for the Kyrgyz mixed with the native IE people of Tien Shan area. Kyrgyz live West to Mongols, there are still Oirat remnants inhabiting in small pockets the lands between Khalkhas and Kyrgyz and they clearly have more Western Eurasian admixture than other Mongols. But Chingghis Khaan was definitely not a халимаг.
  273. @Dmitry
    @AltanBakshi


    similar fallacy as claiming
     
    Well it's just a correlation, found in an observational study.

    However, there is at least also one of the possible proposed physical mechanisms: "when he exposed volunteers to the equivalent of 30 minutes of summer sunlight without sunscreen, their nitric oxide levels went up and their blood pressure went down. Because of its connection to heart disease and strokes, blood pressure is the leading cause of premature death"

    So it is a hypothesis they could now try to test.


    Not possible, Kalmyks were Cossacks,

     

    When the Jews have been exiled, or voluntarily settled, in Siberia, there were many more males than females. Jews became important in the fur trading industry in Siberia. They could marry Russian women, only if they abandoned the religion. But they were able to get dispensation to convert Kalmyk women to Judaism, so they had famously established the Siberian Jewish community with Kalmyk women that were converted to Judaism.

    This is reported in mainstream sources in Russian. But from English - here was an example: https://books.google.ru/books?id=ZZ2MCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA14

    There is a general trend in the Russian Empire/Soviet Union, that the more East you settled, the more tolerance or normality became to multinational marriage.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Bashibuzuk

    Now I know where Lenin’s dad got his looks!

  274. @AltanBakshi
    @songbird

    Tanning was made fashionable by Coco Chanel in 1920s, before that ivory skin was the standard of beauty in Europe. Once again we can thank the French for the modern degeneracy. Like liberalism and jacobinism were not enough?!

    Replies: @songbird

    I guess that begs the question, why it hasn’t been successfully (as far as I know) commercialized anywhere else.

  275. They say that books about MLK and Nelson Mandela have been banned in HK. Well done, Chinese! I hope it is really in all Chinese cities.

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @Wignat is a slur
    @songbird

    Chinese schoolchildren are taught about the (alleged) Holocaust, so it's not all roses

  276. @Dmitry
    @AP

    I'm no geneticist, but this is what the point of the article.

    On the male lineage, modern Argentineans are 94% European, while on the maternal lineage they are 54% Native American.

    The reason for the disparity, is because the vast majority of European immigrants were male.

    In the first generation, marry male European immigrants Native American women. In the second, male European immigrants married half-native children. In third, male European immigrants married to quarter-native children.

    Argentina's population becomes progressively more European, but mDNA shows a majority of Argentinians are descended from Native American founding women.

    A Jewish example of settlement in Western Europe is probably different, as there is indication of an Israelite founding population, disproportionately male, but does not seem to be have been a multi-generation immigration stream of Israelite men.

    So the early studies of communities' male lineage, had supported a so-called "Zionism as repatriation interpretation", as they showed the Ancient Israelite origin, including to some extent for Ethiopian Jews. Later reports, of the female lineage, had been more disappointing from the Zionist repatriation viewpoint, as the maternal origin of these population seems to be more localized to the population where Jews had settled (e.g. with Ethiopian Jews and European Jews not having majority Ancient Israelite origin in the maternal line).


    Buenos Aires is full of people with pure Italian
     
    I didn't read any history books of Argentina, but I don't have an impression that Italian immigrants there was separated from the normal population, in the way of the USA model,- e.g. where New York was strongly divided by rival nationalities until the second half of 20th century, and Irish, Jews, Italians and WASPs would try to create a separate social and dating life.

    For a political example of the Italian immigrants who managed to reach the top of the society - President Mauricio Macri is from Italian paternal descendent, but Argentinian Spanish maternal descent (and his wife is paternally Lebanese and maternally Syrian Muslims).

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Where did you get these numbers from?

    • Replies: @utu
    @Daniel Chieh

    Genetic variation in populations from central Argentina based on mitochondrial and Y chromosome DNA evidence
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s10038-017-0406-7

    Heterogeneity in Genetic Admixture across Different Regions of Argentina
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0034695

    Genetic admixture patterns in Argentinian Patagonia
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0214830

  277. • Replies: @sudden death
    @sudden death

    Even if a little bit too early to be completely sure (one more month or so needed), yet so far UK data seems promising when dealing with Indian strain after vaxing - new infections not prevented, but deaths have not picked up at all and continued to fall, despite rising infections and noticable pick-up in hospitalizations lately.

    Replies: @sudden death

  278. @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    The "fly in the ointment" is that this super-jock sports dude hadn't realized that he was playing for the Ukrainian national team. Unless he was an import from Russia or Kazakhstan he should have been able to string together a couple of sentences in Ukrainian. Ukrainian or Russian speaking athletes that play in the US are able speak in English when interviewed. The guy must have been, eh.., how do they put it at this blog, a "low- IQ" individual. :-)

    Replies: @Mikhail, @kzn

    How many of the Scot and Irish athletes speak their respective native tongue?

    BTW, Ukrainian football (soccer) is sovok in its construction. 17 of its players come from the top two club teams – Dynamo Kiev and Shaktar Donetsk. The Latvian ice hockey team carries on like that as well, relative to Dynamo Riga.

    Recall Soviet national ice hockey teams typically having anywhere from 20% to 50% of its players coming from CSKA Moscow. A smilar pattern existed with other Soviet national sports teams often comprised of athletes from 1-2 club teams.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail


    How many of the Scot and Irish athletes speak their respective native tongue?
     
    Bad analogy. Different historical situations here, you're trying to compare apples and oranges. Firstly, there are way more people that speak Ukrainian than Irish or Scottish Gaelic, even combined. These folks, unfortunately, stopped using their native languages long, long ago. In Ukraine, there was always a large core of people in the countryside that always used their native language. I think that it's sad when a people lose the ability to communicate in their native language, especially if its due to some sort of imperialistic pressure from the outside. The Irish or Scottish situation should be avoided in Ukraine, at all costs.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  279. @Morton's toes
    @Bashibuzuk

    > I was going to mention the association of Red hair color with the “demonic” traits in the Han mythology.

    I would be very interested to know where I could find out more about this.

    Did anybody else notice that in the movie edition of War and Peace the only two blonde actors in the whole movie are the villains Helene and Anatole?

    *Most people consider Helene and Anatole just about the only two villains in the work but I did once get flamed to hell and back on the internet for writing that. Some people consider Tolstoy way too sophisticated an artist to use crude tropes like villainy. : )

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Bashibuzuk

    I would be very interested to know where I could find out more about this.

    I am Chinese and am unaware of this mythological association. Chinese mythology doesn’t have monsters in the same way as the proliferation and standardization of Japanese oni seem to have: it’s usually a lot more like kitsunes or zombies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_White_Snake

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiangshi

    I guess it is an interpretation of a very direct slur.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ang_mo

    That appears to be a direct descendants of Dutch conflicts and is of fairly recent origin.

    During the 17th century, the Dutch East India Company failed in its attempt to force their way into Fujian to trade in the 1620s during the Sino-Dutch conflicts and were called ang mo by the locals.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Daniel Chieh

    Bashi's interpretation of colour red in Chinese culture is very odd, there's no colour more loved and adored by Chinese than the red!

    https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/statue-guan-yu-god-honor-white-background-isolated-30619809.jpg

    And it's true, red is the best colour, the colour of virility and victory!

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg/900px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.png

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    , @Morton's toes
    @Daniel Chieh

    Thank you. I have heard ang mo very rarely. Like maybe three times in my life. Have you ever been in an environment where it is used casually and/or commonly?

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  280. @sudden death
    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/30/18/44874425-9741921-image-a-3_1625073945209.jpg

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/30/18/44874423-9741921-image-a-4_1625073945211.jpg

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/30/18/44872393-9741921-image-a-2_1625073945206.jpg

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/30/19/44857167-9741921-The_rate_of_growth_in_hospital_admissions_has_been_falling_for_t-a-11_1625076694710.jpg

    Replies: @sudden death

    Even if a little bit too early to be completely sure (one more month or so needed), yet so far UK data seems promising when dealing with Indian strain after vaxing – new infections not prevented, but deaths have not picked up at all and continued to fall, despite rising infections and noticable pick-up in hospitalizations lately.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @sudden death

    It might not even be too early though, because below comparisons of 2nd/3rd wave look quite convincing already. Also it might be noted that RF and UK have roughly similar daily infection numbers now (RF 23k/UK 26k) but difference in daily deaths are drastic - nearly 700 in RF and below 20 in UK:

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/07/01/08/44902561-9742985-image-a-10_1625123391727.jpg

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/07/01/08/44902563-9742985-image-a-11_1625123407229.jpg

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/07/01/08/44902559-9742985-image-a-12_1625123428397.jpg

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/07/01/08/44902557-9742985-image-a-13_1625123431961.jpg

    Replies: @utu, @Dmitry

  281. @songbird
    They say that books about MLK and Nelson Mandela have been banned in HK. Well done, Chinese! I hope it is really in all Chinese cities.

    Replies: @Wignat is a slur

    Chinese schoolchildren are taught about the (alleged) Holocaust, so it’s not all roses

  282. @Daniel Chieh
    @Morton's toes


    I would be very interested to know where I could find out more about this.
     
    I am Chinese and am unaware of this mythological association. Chinese mythology doesn't have monsters in the same way as the proliferation and standardization of Japanese oni seem to have: it's usually a lot more like kitsunes or zombies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_White_Snake

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiangshi

    I guess it is an interpretation of a very direct slur.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ang_mo

    That appears to be a direct descendants of Dutch conflicts and is of fairly recent origin.


    During the 17th century, the Dutch East India Company failed in its attempt to force their way into Fujian to trade in the 1620s during the Sino-Dutch conflicts and were called ang mo by the locals.
     

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Morton's toes

    Bashi’s interpretation of colour red in Chinese culture is very odd, there’s no colour more loved and adored by Chinese than the red!

    And it’s true, red is the best colour, the colour of virility and victory!

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @AltanBakshi

    Yeah, red and green are auspicious colors.

    I'm unfamiliar with red demons, although I think that they might exist in some Buddhist hell concept. I don't know anything about that, tbh. The demon story I'm most familiar with is the White Snake story - the original one where she's a creature of evil; she's obviously a white snake, and her sister is a green snake. I suppose some of the Journey to the West creatures are various animal morphs, but I don't think that any of them are specifically red beyond what's expected for the animal they emerged from.

    IIRC ancient Chinese shamanism in some places worshipped fire, and thus, positively saw the color red.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  283. @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    White Huns were admixed, just like the Xiongnu and the Western Huns of Attila were admixed. What was different is the proportions of the admixture. The Hephtalite had a higher proportion of Indo-Iranian ancestry.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Dilberjin_attendants.jpg/132px-Dilberjin_attendants.jpg

    All early Steppe Empires were polyethnic (Gök Turks come to mind).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrks

    Some later Turkic people were also more European looking than others: Polovtsy / Cumans were supposedly often blond (from the Old Slavic root *polvъ "pale; light yellow; blonde").

    It has left its genetic imprint on the Central Asian people. It is just that the more recessive traits originating in the Corded Ware derived Indo-Iranian populations got progressively diluted into near extinction. But even if the phenotype is rare, the genetic lineages are still there, for example around 50% of modern Kirghiz are Y haplogroup R1a, like their Indo-Iranian ancestors 2000 years ago.

    And sometimes you have backcross breeding situations:

    https://ru.sputnik.kg/photo/20170926/1035410475/sary-kyrgyzy-fotopodborka.html

    Something similar might have happened among the Borjigin as well. And sorry, but the fact that Rashid-ud Din was a born a Persian Jew is not enough to disqualify his testimony about the origins and the looks of Genghis Khan and his ancestors.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    By the way it’s been long time since I last read about this stuff, so I mistakenly remembered that Mongols drove Uyghurs out of Mongolia, but it was Yenisey Kyrgyz, and not Mongols, and only afterwards Mongolic Khitans came from the East and conquered most of present day Mongolia.

    And sorry, but the fact that Rashid-ud Din was a born a Persian Jew is not enough to disqualify his testimony about the origins and the looks of Genghis Khan and his ancestors.

    Doesn’t matter if he was Greek or Persian, what matters that he was dealing with Islamised Mongols who had never seen Chingghis Khaan and his children, unlike Khubilai and members of his court.

    And sometimes you have backcross breeding situations:

    https://ru.sputnik.kg/photo/20170926/1035410475/sary-kyrgyzy-fotopodborka.html

    That’s only natural, for the Kyrgyz mixed with the native IE people of Tien Shan area. Kyrgyz live West to Mongols, there are still Oirat remnants inhabiting in small pockets the lands between Khalkhas and Kyrgyz and they clearly have more Western Eurasian admixture than other Mongols. But Chingghis Khaan was definitely not a халимаг.

  284. @AltanBakshi
    @Daniel Chieh

    Bashi's interpretation of colour red in Chinese culture is very odd, there's no colour more loved and adored by Chinese than the red!

    https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/statue-guan-yu-god-honor-white-background-isolated-30619809.jpg

    And it's true, red is the best colour, the colour of virility and victory!

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg/900px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.png

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Yeah, red and green are auspicious colors.

    I’m unfamiliar with red demons, although I think that they might exist in some Buddhist hell concept. I don’t know anything about that, tbh. The demon story I’m most familiar with is the White Snake story – the original one where she’s a creature of evil; she’s obviously a white snake, and her sister is a green snake. I suppose some of the Journey to the West creatures are various animal morphs, but I don’t think that any of them are specifically red beyond what’s expected for the animal they emerged from.

    IIRC ancient Chinese shamanism in some places worshipped fire, and thus, positively saw the color red.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Daniel Chieh


    unfamiliar with red demons
     
    I know that red as a color is seen as auspicious in Chinese culture.

    What I mentioned was not red demons, but red haired demons. Usually found on the frescoes in the depictions of Hell.

    https://media.britishmuseum.org/media/Repository/Documents/2014_11/12_11/c2477f02_632b_4410_99aa_a3e100b612cd/mid_00098219_001.jpg

    https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/image/98219001

    The red head fellow on the right in this picture is one of these.

    I have read about it many years ago in the writings of a nineteenth century Russian enthomologist Grigory Grum-Grshimailo who has written a memoir on his travels to China. He was interested in the history of the local populations and local mythology. Gumilyov also mentioned this in some of his writings about the history of China.


    In Russian below:


    Г. часто изображались в храмах, а также на народных картинах, обычно с остроконечной головой и рыжими волосами.
     
    https://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enc_myphology/2186/%D0%93%D0%A3%D0%99

    https://leninka-ru.livejournal.com/169324.html

    https://tech.wikireading.ru/huS9w2gVsk

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  285. • Replies: @Wignat is a slur
    @216

    To be fair, the Indians do have more evidence than the Holocaust

  286. Can we get FM Lavrov of Russia to condemn Canada for the church burnings?

  287. Bashibuzuk says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    @AltanBakshi

    Yeah, red and green are auspicious colors.

    I'm unfamiliar with red demons, although I think that they might exist in some Buddhist hell concept. I don't know anything about that, tbh. The demon story I'm most familiar with is the White Snake story - the original one where she's a creature of evil; she's obviously a white snake, and her sister is a green snake. I suppose some of the Journey to the West creatures are various animal morphs, but I don't think that any of them are specifically red beyond what's expected for the animal they emerged from.

    IIRC ancient Chinese shamanism in some places worshipped fire, and thus, positively saw the color red.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    unfamiliar with red demons

    I know that red as a color is seen as auspicious in Chinese culture.

    What I mentioned was not red demons, but red haired demons. Usually found on the frescoes in the depictions of Hell.

    https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/image/98219001

    The red head fellow on the right in this picture is one of these.

    I have read about it many years ago in the writings of a nineteenth century Russian enthomologist Grigory Grum-Grshimailo who has written a memoir on his travels to China. He was interested in the history of the local populations and local mythology. Gumilyov also mentioned this in some of his writings about the history of China.

    In Russian below:

    [MORE]

    Г. часто изображались в храмах, а также на народных картинах, обычно с остроконечной головой и рыжими волосами.

    https://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enc_myphology/2186/%D0%93%D0%A3%D0%99

    https://leninka-ru.livejournal.com/169324.html

    https://tech.wikireading.ru/huS9w2gVsk

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Bashibuzuk

    I'm sick at the moment but I'll look at it later.

  288. @Morton's toes
    @Bashibuzuk

    > I was going to mention the association of Red hair color with the “demonic” traits in the Han mythology.

    I would be very interested to know where I could find out more about this.

    Did anybody else notice that in the movie edition of War and Peace the only two blonde actors in the whole movie are the villains Helene and Anatole?

    *Most people consider Helene and Anatole just about the only two villains in the work but I did once get flamed to hell and back on the internet for writing that. Some people consider Tolstoy way too sophisticated an artist to use crude tropes like villainy. : )

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Bashibuzuk

    Please see my comment above. The demons were not blond but specifically red haired. The Russian transliteration of their Chinese name is Гуй (probably Gouy in Latin transliteration?)

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Bashibuzuk

    Well Bashi it seems that Medieval Europeans were even more hostile towards red hairedness than the Chinese were. Red hair was associated with Judas, Jews, heresy and Anti-Christ. IIRC inquistion and protestant witch hunters were quite suspicious of gingers.

    Many protectors of Dharma have red hair, even in Chinese esoteric Buddhism.

    Btw what's that painting? It's title is "conversion of Hariti?" Hariti is a very great protector of ancient Iranic origins.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  289. @216
    https://twitter.com/WolfishHead/status/1410318527664377857

    Replies: @Wignat is a slur

    To be fair, the Indians do have more evidence than the Holocaust

  290. @Daniel Chieh
    @Morton's toes


    I would be very interested to know where I could find out more about this.
     
    I am Chinese and am unaware of this mythological association. Chinese mythology doesn't have monsters in the same way as the proliferation and standardization of Japanese oni seem to have: it's usually a lot more like kitsunes or zombies.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_White_Snake

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiangshi

    I guess it is an interpretation of a very direct slur.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ang_mo

    That appears to be a direct descendants of Dutch conflicts and is of fairly recent origin.


    During the 17th century, the Dutch East India Company failed in its attempt to force their way into Fujian to trade in the 1620s during the Sino-Dutch conflicts and were called ang mo by the locals.
     

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Morton's toes

    Thank you. I have heard ang mo very rarely. Like maybe three times in my life. Have you ever been in an environment where it is used casually and/or commonly?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Morton's toes

    One of my dad's classmates was descended from one of the Dutch women who
    voluntold to stay on Taiwan after the fall of Zeelandia and he had red hair so some of his classmates called him that as a tease.

    That's the only time I've ever heard it used.

  291. @Bashibuzuk
    @Morton's toes

    Please see my comment above. The demons were not blond but specifically red haired. The Russian transliteration of their Chinese name is Гуй (probably Gouy in Latin transliteration?)

    https://china-underground.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Raising-the-Alms-bowl-The-Conversion-of-Hariti-the-Mother-of-Demons-III-1024x778.jpg

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Well Bashi it seems that Medieval Europeans were even more hostile towards red hairedness than the Chinese were. Red hair was associated with Judas, Jews, heresy and Anti-Christ. IIRC inquistion and protestant witch hunters were quite suspicious of gingers.

    Many protectors of Dharma have red hair, even in Chinese esoteric Buddhism.

    Btw what’s that painting? It’s title is “conversion of Hariti?” Hariti is a very great protector of ancient Iranic origins.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    The redhead phenotype is recessive and therefore rare in most populations, this makes redheads exotic. And unfortunately the minorities are often seen with suspicion by the majority.

    Now going back to our redhead ethnography, you probably know that among the most redhead people by prevalence one finds the Ugric Udmurt people.

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/78897000/jpg/_78897880_redhair-festival624.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f8/0f/8d/f80f8d10355aa5b0bba5515d5c4cf8c6.jpg

    One can easily see that the Udmurt often appear admixed with their Turkic Tatar neighbors. This is especially visible in older pictures taken before the massive inflow of Slavic population in Udmurtia in Soviet times.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Udmurt_people.jpg

    Actually, compare this picture with the Prairie Métisse population:

    https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ac/f5/cc/acf5cc0990f9560795379513ccc2a5a9--fur-trade-mountain-man.jpg

    And then have a look at the frescoe of the Hephtalite Huns I have posted in one of my comment above.

    You get my point?

    All Eurasian populations were admixed, the proportion of admixture was variable, but it was always present in some individuals.

    And sometimes it gave this interesting phenomenon:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Akhmetov_Rinat_Leonidovich.jpg

    A Well known Ukrainian oligarch of 100% Volga Tatar ancestry.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/83/a4/e683a402f0363e27dcd30ef9f33c2544.jpg

    A Turkish actor.

    https://otvet.ya.guru/media/im/M3/hg/M3hgw6HTCAjjULytrtaINp23CkkkYLN.png

    Crimean Tatar children.

    https://i.pinimg.com/236x/5c/83/8b/5c838b7d25e6b144c9fc004e12fe10cf--tennis-players-eye-candy.jpg

    And a well known tennis player of Tatar descent.

    My grandfather who according to our family tradition had Ukrainian, Russian, Polish and Ruthenian roots, looked more Asian than any of the adults above. I am pretty sure that in North America people would have thought that he had Native American roots despite his piercing blue eyes. And when I was a kid in Moscow, the Tatar often asked me if I was a Tatar, to which I jokingly replied that I was unfortunately not.

    Actually it happened again in 2018, the question was asked by a Tatar taxi driver.

    But our family name is found among both Russians (especially in Siberia) and Volga Tatars, while the Russian ancestors came from a region where the Christian Служивые Татары have been settled by the Tsar in the sixteenth century.

    All populations are admixed, what is variable is the nature and proportion of the admixture. Genghis Khan might have been admixed too. There's nothing bad about it...

    Voilà...

  292. @AltanBakshi
    @Coconuts

    Karlin's white supremacism explanation does not hold water, and is easily eliminated by Occam's razor. Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them, if that's white supremacism, then Nazis were secret philosemites who just wanted to ensure the creation of Israel and generations of goodwill for Jews.

    I have myself theorised that western elites are trying to create liberal and unitary, but at the same time fragmentary, common identity for whole humanity. Unitary by it's fanatical anti-racism and equality drive. Fragmentary by dividing people into atomised competing interest groups, in such way whole world could be united under the western elites, but still society would be divided enough so that the plebs could never overcome their differences and do neo-bolshevik revolution and overthrow the elites. There's a fine balancing act going.

    Maybe CIA and other such orgs researched this stuff in 1950-1980, how to direct and channel revolutionary forces in society for the benefit of the rulers? Didn't FBI and friends plant agents into every kind of political organisation imaginable in those years? How sad that I will probably never see those reports.

    Replies: @AaronB, @Beckow, @AltanBakshi, @Coconuts, @Coconuts

    Karlin’s white supremacism explanation does not hold water, and is easily eliminated by Occam’s razor. Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them, if that’s white supremacism, then Nazis were secret philosemites who just wanted to ensure the creation of Israel and generations of goodwill for Jews.

    I also thought about examples along those lines, they would be a reductio ad absurdum of AK’s original argument.

    But IMHO White genocide is also too implausible a possibility to be that useful, so I started thinking about Eric Kaufmann’s whiteshift concept instead. Whiteshift is the idea that by the last decades of this century former white majority countries in North America and Western Europe will be around 80% non-white and mixed race, and the definition of ‘white’ will move again to include populations now thought of as mixed or non-white. This is a more mainstream prediction for the future and also something that has more probability of occurring.

    Now, the elites in those countries after something like whiteshift will probably be mainly descended from the current white elites, but very likely will be more racially mixed than now. And, it seems support for whiteshift and a desire to repress anything that might be an obstacle to it happening is strong among some white elites and progressives, so in that way it can be seen as an example of ‘white supremacy’. But the content and goal of such a whiteshift policy is the opposite of white supremacist.

    Why elites and progressives would want to either engineer this outcome, or at least to try to forestall or repress concerns about it, is an interesting question.

    • Replies: @216
    @Coconuts


    by the last decades of this century former white majority countries in North America and Western Europe will be around 80% non-white and mixed race
     
    An outcome, which in no uncertain terms, is 1000 times worse than the Holocaust.

    Our self-determination must be inviolate.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Coconuts

    One of the big ironies of alt history is that if Nazi Germany had won, the Germans would have become a great deal more admixed with Slavs.

    Then again, Nazi Germany wasn't white supremacist either (except in the fantasies of modern white supremacists and normies).

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  293. The Eurasianist thugocracy isn’t sending it’s best these days; this is the current ambassador to the UK!

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Marcus

    But that’s not what he’s saying.

    Replies: @Marcus

  294. @Mikhail
    @Mr. Hack

    How many of the Scot and Irish athletes speak their respective native tongue?

    BTW, Ukrainian football (soccer) is sovok in its construction. 17 of its players come from the top two club teams - Dynamo Kiev and Shaktar Donetsk. The Latvian ice hockey team carries on like that as well, relative to Dynamo Riga.

    Recall Soviet national ice hockey teams typically having anywhere from 20% to 50% of its players coming from CSKA Moscow. A smilar pattern existed with other Soviet national sports teams often comprised of athletes from 1-2 club teams.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    How many of the Scot and Irish athletes speak their respective native tongue?

    Bad analogy. Different historical situations here, you’re trying to compare apples and oranges. Firstly, there are way more people that speak Ukrainian than Irish or Scottish Gaelic, even combined. These folks, unfortunately, stopped using their native languages long, long ago. In Ukraine, there was always a large core of people in the countryside that always used their native language. I think that it’s sad when a people lose the ability to communicate in their native language, especially if its due to some sort of imperialistic pressure from the outside. The Irish or Scottish situation should be avoided in Ukraine, at all costs.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Mr. Hack


    Bad analogy. Different historical situations here, you’re trying to compare apples and oranges. Firstly, there are way more people that speak Ukrainian than Irish or Scottish Gaelic, even combined. These folks, unfortunately, stopped using their native languages long, long ago. In Ukraine, there was always a large core of people in the countryside that always used their native language. I think that it’s sad when a people lose the ability to communicate in their native language, especially if its due to some sort of imperialistic pressure from the outside. The Irish or Scottish situation should be avoided in Ukraine, at all costs.
     
    In other words, Ukrainian wasn't as suppressed. Plenty of Irish, Scot and Ukrainian nationalists who don't often speak their native tongue.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonFromTN

  295. @Yellowface Anon
    @Mr. Hack

    Have you seen the raccoon pic I posted an hour ago?

    The main purpose of voting is legitimizing the political system and political agendas made independently from actual popular desires (if any)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    It’ still a better system than conducting plebiscites at the point of a gun or tanks. Besides, political candidates like Trump that represent a disgruntled electorate that is hostile towards the status quo sometimes push through.

  296. @Jatt Aryaa
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    It's ok I'll cut you down to the bone.

    Also, Singhs recovering girls in Kashmir

    https://mobile.twitter.com/amaanbali/status/1409771551205986319?s=20

    Also, just hide Dmitry. Any Wokeism @ uefa btw?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Hey bro its all about the gains

    Any Wokeism @ uefa btw?

    I follow it through German media and didn’t think it could get any gayer, then I saw this

    View post on imgur.com

    https://www.faz.net/aktuell/sport/fussball-em/ukraine-im-em-viertelfinale-party-nach-sieg-gegen-schweden-17414811.html

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    https://twitter.com/SinghDahiya1/status/1287738547089182720?s=20

    Replies: @Wignat is a slur, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  297. @Bashibuzuk
    @reiner Tor

    Genghis was Mongoloid, but he also had clear eyes and reddish hair. This recessive phenotype was frequent in the Borjigin Clan. Probably the result of an ancient admixture.


    In an identity-by-descent analysis, the researchers found that Mongolians share a high portion of IBD segments with Finns. In an overall analysis, they found that Mongolians have about 10 percent European ancestry, while Europeans have about 12 percent Mongolian ancestry. But when then excluded Finns from that analysis, the portion of Mongolian ancestry among Europeans fell. This and other analyses suggested to the researchers that complex admixture might have taken place in northeastern Europe and Siberia.
     
    https://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/genetic-ancestry-modern-ancient-mongolian-populations-unraveled

    I have already mentioned the Sargat Culture a couple of times, it was probably there that the Ugric admixture took place.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    How about we do a trade? you guys can claim Genghis, we get this guy:

    After skiing more than 400 km (250 miles) he was found and admitted to a nearby hospital, where his heart rate was measured at 200 beats per minute, triple the average human heartbeat,[5] and weighing only 43 kg (94 pounds).[4] In the week Koivunen was gone, he subsisted only on pine buds and a single Siberian jay that he caught and ate raw. He ended up surviving and died peacefully at the age of 71.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimo_Koivunen

    • LOL: Bashibuzuk
  298. @Coconuts
    @AltanBakshi


    Karlin’s white supremacism explanation does not hold water, and is easily eliminated by Occam’s razor. Western elites do not feel any solidarity or sympathy towards working class whites, and sometimes they are even openly hostile to them, if that’s white supremacism, then Nazis were secret philosemites who just wanted to ensure the creation of Israel and generations of goodwill for Jews.
     
    I also thought about examples along those lines, they would be a reductio ad absurdum of AK's original argument.

    But IMHO White genocide is also too implausible a possibility to be that useful, so I started thinking about Eric Kaufmann's whiteshift concept instead. Whiteshift is the idea that by the last decades of this century former white majority countries in North America and Western Europe will be around 80% non-white and mixed race, and the definition of 'white' will move again to include populations now thought of as mixed or non-white. This is a more mainstream prediction for the future and also something that has more probability of occurring.

    Now, the elites in those countries after something like whiteshift will probably be mainly descended from the current white elites, but very likely will be more racially mixed than now. And, it seems support for whiteshift and a desire to repress anything that might be an obstacle to it happening is strong among some white elites and progressives, so in that way it can be seen as an example of 'white supremacy'. But the content and goal of such a whiteshift policy is the opposite of white supremacist.

    Why elites and progressives would want to either engineer this outcome, or at least to try to forestall or repress concerns about it, is an interesting question.

    Replies: @216, @Anatoly Karlin

    by the last decades of this century former white majority countries in North America and Western Europe will be around 80% non-white and mixed race

    An outcome, which in no uncertain terms, is 1000 times worse than the Holocaust.

    Our self-determination must be inviolate.

  299. @Bashibuzuk
    @AltanBakshi

    Look up Seima-Turbino and Akozino-Malar cultures.


    Obvious signs of the Scandinavian Bronze Age in the coastal zone of the modern Finland are stone cairns and certain bronze items. In the inland, ceramic studies give plenty of archaeological footprints of eastern connections to north-western Russia in the Early Metal Age. Axes of the Seima type have been found as stray finds in Finland (Table 1). Lacking archaeological find contexts, no dates can be provided for the individual items. Judging by the fact that early Textile ceramics in the area dates to the 20th century BCE, there is a strong reason to suggest that the Finnish Seima axe finds are as old as the Seima-Turbino phenomenon in Russia (Fig. 1). The local production of bronze implements might have begun in Finland at the end of the 2nd millennium BCE, which is the suggested date for the axes of Maaninka type (Table 2). The axe is the result of a challenging bronze technology, made by a skilled handicraftsman (Fig. 2). The very restricted distribution of this specific axe type suggests that it could be a local innovation. At the end of the 2nd millennium BCE, Akozino-Mälar axes spread over a large area: they are found all the way from central Sweden to the Middle-Volga region, including Finland (Fig. 3, Table 3). A few casting moulds of these axes are known in Finland, too. Only one bronze axe of Ananino type has been found in Finland and has the title of the youngest bronze axe in the country. However, a few axes of Ananino type were probably cast in the inland in the second half of the 1st millennium BCE, as a few casting moulds have been found (Fig. 4). Copper and bronze were imported goods that could not be mined anywhere in Finland in prehistoric times.
     
    Basically, modern day Scandinavian people are mainly a mix of different proportions of local native populations of Funnel Beaker Culture Y haplogroup I, the Eastern Bell Beaker folks of haplogroup R1b, the Corded Ware derived Battle Axe culture of Y haplogroup R1a and the Seima-Turbino and Akozino-Malar Ugric people of Y haplogroup N.

    Among these cultures only the Funnel Beaker Culture people, who were also close to the Megalithic Culture population of the Western Europe and British Isles, would have probably evolved in the Doggerland vicinity and would have had the phenotype corresponding to the climate of this region: cold and cloudy. The rest would have basically descended from the populations originating in Southern Siberia and who at their inception would have resembled their haplogroup Q ancestors, tha