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Time for a new Open Thread, I suppose.

 
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  1. This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. The corona basically unplugged the pre-2020 world and it won’t matter much whether the panic was justified or not, the previous global, liberal world will stay unplugged. There is no way back and the assorted Merkels, Trumps, BoJos and Macrons are at this point side characters. The global liberals are on a last-ditch fanatical offensive – it doesn’t get any more silly than mass kneeling in from of a porn-actor effigy. I doubt they can prevail, but they will try. The other side – nationalist, conservative, traditional whatever they are called – either finally gets some balls or they might as well withdraw to the countryside. You can’t fight something with nothing.

    We are also celebrating 100 years since Trianon Treaty that freed 10’s of millions of people in Central Europe from the Habsburg-Magyar idiocy. Some still cry over it, to them I say that Trianon was an inevitable consequence of the stale, inbred Habsburgs and the irrational, narcissistic Magyars and what they did in the generation preceding WWI. Stupidity has consequences, there is a lesson there for today’s morons who can’t accept reality. Franz Ferdinand and corona have a lot in common.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Beckow


    ...it doesn’t get any more silly than mass kneeling in from of a porn-actor effigy.
     
    The party is only getting started, buckle up.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @songbird
    @Beckow

    A reunification of Austria-Hungary with Orban crowned emperor would be pretty nice.

    All sorts of nuts are acting like Hungary, a nation of 10 million, is equivalent to Nazi Germany and should be feared as much because Orban hasn't signed on to subsidize Africans invading and gays having babies. I'd like to see it taken to the next level, by an Austria-Hungary reunification, preferably adding in an EU and NATO exit.

    The newly-formed intelligence service ought to have enough resources to discredit the German leadership, and come to the aid of native Germans.

    , @Alexander Turok
    @Beckow

    Merkel, Bojo, and Macron all saw increases in approval ratings due to corona. Trump saw a very brief one, would have been stronger and lasted longer were he less of a moron.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    , @Old Palo Altan
    @Beckow

    Don't be an ass.
    If Franz Ferdinand had become Emperor he would have subdued the Magyars, freed the Czechs, and set up a tripartite Empire which, under his enlightened but deeply Catholic and traditional leadership, would have flourished into the 1930s, by which time poor Karl would have been ready to succeed, no longer the wet young man he was in 1916, so unfortunately for his empire and, indeed, all the rest of us.

    Replies: @Beckow

  3. How will the current negrolatrous uprising end?

    • Replies: @mal
    @Kent Nationalist

    With Trump reelection probably.

    Replies: @ImmortalRationalist

    , @AKAHorace
    @Kent Nationalist

    If what we have been told about coronavirus is true the current BLM riots and demonstrations are an almost perfect way of spreading it. Things might change in a few weeks if coronavirus returns because of this; a lot of people would have a lot of explaining to do.

    , @ImmortalRationalist
    @Kent Nationalist

    Cities like Minneapolis committing economic suicide.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

  4. @Kent Nationalist
    How will the current negrolatrous uprising end?

    Replies: @mal, @AKAHorace, @ImmortalRationalist

    With Trump reelection probably.

    • Replies: @ImmortalRationalist
    @mal

    Trump would have won Minnesota if it hadn't been for Evan McMullin.

  5. UK right wing commenters (Daily Mail) turn on Trump

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394087/Americas-soldier-General-Milley-shouting-match-Donald-Trump-forced-down.html

    Brussels black riots

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5929161.html

    Most polls are showing Trump support tanking. I see lots of whites protesting in the US.

    Me thinks all of this is a sign that the western cuckolds will soon be fully taken over and Trumpists/or nationalist West EU parties will be wiped out.

    Westerners are simply too cuckolded. Trumpists will be wiped out and fired from everywhere. Republican party will be purged from all non-woke elements too.

    Now you are seeing the take over. The putch. It is a show of force meaning that anyone that is even remotely nationalistic will not be tolerated. Any sane Eastern European country must leave EU and NATO before its too late and they get infected too.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    @Passer by

    According to the same polls (and the same tabloid that you cite), overwhelming majority supports sending in the National Guard so the public is on the side of Trump and not on the side of cuckold generals who love to bomb the Middle East but not eager to defend the homeland.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8384415/Voters-hammer-Trumps-handling-George-Floyd-protests-poll.html

    This suggests that the reason behind the seemingly contradictory polling is that the much of the public is frustrated that Trump has been slow to use military against the riots.

    My theory about that is that Trump sees a color revolution trap coming. If he does get the army out in full force, there will be some maidan-like incident with video of peaceful protesters getting shot by mysterious rooftop people who will never be identified. The media, the generals, the establishment politicians, the entire elite will blame Trump in lockstep and announce that he has to be removed. They've created a coup plot under the cover of the Russia investigation and after that ended in failure they're creating another story for it.

    So this is one issue where we have to wait and see how Trump deals with it instead of launching into the usual hysterics over Drumpf being finished because of some outrage of the week.

    Replies: @Passer by

  6. @Beckow
    The corona basically unplugged the pre-2020 world and it won't matter much whether the panic was justified or not, the previous global, liberal world will stay unplugged. There is no way back and the assorted Merkels, Trumps, BoJos and Macrons are at this point side characters. The global liberals are on a last-ditch fanatical offensive - it doesn't get any more silly than mass kneeling in from of a porn-actor effigy. I doubt they can prevail, but they will try. The other side - nationalist, conservative, traditional whatever they are called - either finally gets some balls or they might as well withdraw to the countryside. You can't fight something with nothing.

    We are also celebrating 100 years since Trianon Treaty that freed 10's of millions of people in Central Europe from the Habsburg-Magyar idiocy. Some still cry over it, to them I say that Trianon was an inevitable consequence of the stale, inbred Habsburgs and the irrational, narcissistic Magyars and what they did in the generation preceding WWI. Stupidity has consequences, there is a lesson there for today's morons who can't accept reality. Franz Ferdinand and corona have a lot in common.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @songbird, @Alexander Turok, @Old Palo Altan

    …it doesn’t get any more silly than mass kneeling in from of a porn-actor effigy.

    The party is only getting started, buckle up.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @anonymous coward

    Yeah, we are at the beginning...

  7. @Passer by
    UK right wing commenters (Daily Mail) turn on Trump

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394087/Americas-soldier-General-Milley-shouting-match-Donald-Trump-forced-down.html

    Brussels black riots

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5929161.html

    Most polls are showing Trump support tanking. I see lots of whites protesting in the US.

    Me thinks all of this is a sign that the western cuckolds will soon be fully taken over and Trumpists/or nationalist West EU parties will be wiped out.

    Westerners are simply too cuckolded. Trumpists will be wiped out and fired from everywhere. Republican party will be purged from all non-woke elements too.

    Now you are seeing the take over. The putch. It is a show of force meaning that anyone that is even remotely nationalistic will not be tolerated. Any sane Eastern European country must leave EU and NATO before its too late and they get infected too.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala

    According to the same polls (and the same tabloid that you cite), overwhelming majority supports sending in the National Guard so the public is on the side of Trump and not on the side of cuckold generals who love to bomb the Middle East but not eager to defend the homeland.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8384415/Voters-hammer-Trumps-handling-George-Floyd-protests-poll.html

    This suggests that the reason behind the seemingly contradictory polling is that the much of the public is frustrated that Trump has been slow to use military against the riots.

    My theory about that is that Trump sees a color revolution trap coming. If he does get the army out in full force, there will be some maidan-like incident with video of peaceful protesters getting shot by mysterious rooftop people who will never be identified. The media, the generals, the establishment politicians, the entire elite will blame Trump in lockstep and announce that he has to be removed. They’ve created a coup plot under the cover of the Russia investigation and after that ended in failure they’re creating another story for it.

    So this is one issue where we have to wait and see how Trump deals with it instead of launching into the usual hysterics over Drumpf being finished because of some outrage of the week.

    • Replies: @Passer by
    @Jaakko Raipala

    I have another way of polling. I see Confederare Monuments dropping like flies all over the US, including in the Southern States, and no resistance to this. No resistance in the Southern States. In Alabama. Local police steps down. Do you know what that means? Cuckold land.

    Newsflash

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJ7FsNPoWU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n9TZXh_fcY

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5927703.html

    Replies: @Menes

  8. @Jaakko Raipala
    @Passer by

    According to the same polls (and the same tabloid that you cite), overwhelming majority supports sending in the National Guard so the public is on the side of Trump and not on the side of cuckold generals who love to bomb the Middle East but not eager to defend the homeland.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8384415/Voters-hammer-Trumps-handling-George-Floyd-protests-poll.html

    This suggests that the reason behind the seemingly contradictory polling is that the much of the public is frustrated that Trump has been slow to use military against the riots.

    My theory about that is that Trump sees a color revolution trap coming. If he does get the army out in full force, there will be some maidan-like incident with video of peaceful protesters getting shot by mysterious rooftop people who will never be identified. The media, the generals, the establishment politicians, the entire elite will blame Trump in lockstep and announce that he has to be removed. They've created a coup plot under the cover of the Russia investigation and after that ended in failure they're creating another story for it.

    So this is one issue where we have to wait and see how Trump deals with it instead of launching into the usual hysterics over Drumpf being finished because of some outrage of the week.

    Replies: @Passer by

    I have another way of polling. I see Confederare Monuments dropping like flies all over the US, including in the Southern States, and no resistance to this. No resistance in the Southern States. In Alabama. Local police steps down. Do you know what that means? Cuckold land.

    Newsflash

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5927703.html

    • Replies: @Menes
    @Passer by


    I see Confederate Monuments dropping like flies all over the US, including in the Southern States, and no resistance to this. No resistance in the Southern States. In Alabama. Local police steps down. Do you know what that means? Cuckold land.
     
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/06/us-marines-confederate-flag-ban-meaning/3167431001/

    The U.S. Marine Corps on Friday ordered all public displays of the Confederate flag removed, a ban that extends to bumper stickers, clothing, mugs, posters and more.

    The order directs Marine Corps commanders to find and remove displays of the flag in "work places, common-access areas, and public areas" on base.

    "The Confederate battle flag has all too often been co-opted by violent extremist and racist groups whose divisive beliefs have no place in our Corps," a notice posted by the U.S. Marines on Twitter says.

    Around the U.S., demonstrations over the death of George Floyd and racial inequality have sparked both protesters and city officials to remove, deface or announce plans to take down many Confederate memorials.

    Perhaps most notably: The statue of Robert E. Lee has that has towered over Richmond, Viriginia, for more than 100 years will come down "as soon as possible," Gov. Ralph Northam announced.
     

  9. And now it spread to UK

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Passer by

    https://youtu.be/z9wC6W7EJpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS1DLvnnP_1lZ0qYNQIMNu3Ftwl3mo1QxpMppqKTta6U7_ld9bk&usqp.jpg

    , @Morton's toes
    @Passer by

    I had never heard of Edward Colston before today!


    Colston supported and endowed schools, almshouses, hospitals and churches in Bristol, London and elsewhere. Many of his charitable foundations survive to this day.[4]

    In Bristol, he founded almshouses in King Street and Colstons Almshouses on St Michael's Hill, endowed Queen Elizabeth's Hospital school and helped found Colston's Hospital, a boarding school which opened in 1710 leaving an endowment to be managed by the Society of Merchant Venturers for its upkeep. He gave money to schools in Temple (one of which went on to become St Mary Redcliffe and Temple School) and other parts of Bristol, and to several churches and the cathedral. He was a strong Tory and high-churchman, and was returned as Member of Parliament (MP) for Bristol in 1710 for just one parliament.[5]

    David Hughson writing in 1808 described Colston as "the great benefactor of the city of Bristol, who, in his lifetime, expended more than 70,000L. [£] in charitable institutions"
     
    Somebody needs to get out in front and promote blowing up the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial. Actually they should blow up the whole city of Washington or at least rename it to Turner (Nat) or (Toussaint) L'Overture.

    I vote for Toussaint L'Overture. I enjoy saying it.

    Replies: @FD

  10. I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing. There is an article on Breitbart about some black woman at a BLM protest in London saying that blacks shouldn’t race mix with white people, and all the Breitbart posters were saying how terrible and racist it is, as if they think race mixing is a good thing.

    Whites proportionally seem to be the most pro-miscegenation, as in the least concerned about racial purity.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
    @Europe Europa


    Among the anthropologically defined 356 contemporary societies of Euro-Asia and Africa, there is a large and significant negative correlation between Christianization (for at least 500 years) and the absence of clans and lineages; the level of commercialization, class stratification, and state formation are insignificant.”
     
    They've been christian the longest.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Charlotte

    , @Jaakko Raipala
    @Europe Europa

    It's just the usual story.

    Step 1) The left campaigns against the right on some issue (this time, race mixing)

    Step 2) The right puts up a fight, surrenders and eventually starts celebrating their surrender as a new core Western value (this time, opposition to race mixing was switched with celebrating the freedom to race mix)

    Step 3) The right finds out that the left doesn't actually care about the principle that it forced the right to swallow and that favored minorities don't behave according to the principle (this time, minorities are the real racists)

    Step 4) The right thinks it has found a killer argument and it tries to run the same campaign only to find out that everyone laughs at them (this time, they think they're going to score virtue points by scolding minorities who oppose race mixing and it won't work)

    , @Not Only Wrathful
    @Europe Europa

    Most of the people on the right nowadays are not looking to complete/transform/transcend themselves through some blood and fire political movement. They are happy in their own body, or they have found their substitute meaning elsewhere - they mostly prefer to just grill.

    Replies: @HallParvey

    , @Toronto Russian
    @Europe Europa


    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.
     
    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! "
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven't, it's beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it's written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don't get me started on the "tundra fever" of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/650760/650760_original.jpg

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/651623/651623_original.jpg

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You'd think only "our man+foreign woman" couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1338587/1338587_original.jpg

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.
     
    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Gowro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AP, @Mikhail, @Inselaffen, @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

  11. This protest bullshit will escalate, and end by all of NATO receiving direct rule from Moscow, apart from the USA and Canada which will be Russo-Chinese condominiums. Australia and NZ get direct rule from Beijing. They’ll all literally beg to be annexed as they go Somalia tier.

    I see that lasting at least 50 years until the cuckism is exterminated. By that I mean they’ll probably just periodically douse the area in chemical weapons to keep the cuckic horde in check so it doesn’t spread it’s filth out of the containment area

  12. I’ve read a quite depressing but otherwise excellent report from a white science teacher who left a black school in NewYork City after one year to teach Spanish speaking immigrants. – Just where is it to be found – anybody?

    • Replies: @N9
    @Dieter Kief

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/gulna2/i_used_to_teach_in_a_black_inner_city_school/

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Kent Nationalist, @Menes

  13. @Europe Europa
    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing. There is an article on Breitbart about some black woman at a BLM protest in London saying that blacks shouldn't race mix with white people, and all the Breitbart posters were saying how terrible and racist it is, as if they think race mixing is a good thing.

    Whites proportionally seem to be the most pro-miscegenation, as in the least concerned about racial purity.

    Replies: @Jatt Arya, @Jaakko Raipala, @Not Only Wrathful, @Toronto Russian

    Among the anthropologically defined 356 contemporary societies of Euro-Asia and Africa, there is a large and significant negative correlation between Christianization (for at least 500 years) and the absence of clans and lineages; the level of commercialization, class stratification, and state formation are insignificant.”

    They’ve been christian the longest.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Jatt Arya

    Protestants aren't Christian.

    (Christianity is what they're "protesting" about in the first place.)

    Replies: @Europe Europa, @nickels

    , @Charlotte
    @Jatt Arya

    I’m not sure that is the driver. At the time of the US Civil War, both Northern and Southern whites were strongly against race mixing, though they tended to disagree on whether slavery caused or prevented it. There was a fair bit of quiet opposition to it when I was a kid, back in the 1980s.

  14. @Europe Europa
    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing. There is an article on Breitbart about some black woman at a BLM protest in London saying that blacks shouldn't race mix with white people, and all the Breitbart posters were saying how terrible and racist it is, as if they think race mixing is a good thing.

    Whites proportionally seem to be the most pro-miscegenation, as in the least concerned about racial purity.

    Replies: @Jatt Arya, @Jaakko Raipala, @Not Only Wrathful, @Toronto Russian

    It’s just the usual story.

    Step 1) The left campaigns against the right on some issue (this time, race mixing)

    Step 2) The right puts up a fight, surrenders and eventually starts celebrating their surrender as a new core Western value (this time, opposition to race mixing was switched with celebrating the freedom to race mix)

    Step 3) The right finds out that the left doesn’t actually care about the principle that it forced the right to swallow and that favored minorities don’t behave according to the principle (this time, minorities are the real racists)

    Step 4) The right thinks it has found a killer argument and it tries to run the same campaign only to find out that everyone laughs at them (this time, they think they’re going to score virtue points by scolding minorities who oppose race mixing and it won’t work)

  15. @Dieter Kief
    I've read a quite depressing but otherwise excellent report from a white science teacher who left a black school in NewYork City after one year to teach Spanish speaking immigrants. - Just where is it to be found - anybody?

    Replies: @N9

    • Thanks: Dieter Kief, AnonFromTN
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @N9

    Fact is, it IS their culture. That’s why they are exactly where they are, and will never get anywhere else as long as this is their culture.

    , @Kent Nationalist
    @N9

    Most of the comments are 'it's their parents' fault' or 'it's the fault of the head teacher's internalised racism'. Is there anything which would make these people accept that this is just the way things are and stop viewing poor black behaviour through the frame of personal moral failing?

    , @Menes
    @N9

    I am sure this guy is lying or exaggerating. Why would black teachers say "their culture" about black students? The guy is clearly a racist. The kids sensed it and gave him a hard time for it. We got a few white teachers here at Unz.com who are WNs as well. You can be sure they screwed with their black and hispanic students.

    Any semblance of racial hatred should be grounds for dismissal for both teachers, police, judges etc, all professions disproportionately dominated by whites. I think teachers are ~90% white.

    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @HallParvey, @AnonFromTN

  16. RIP Jon Hellevig. He was one of the better financial analysts out there.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @mal

    Anatoly please delete this comment if you believe it to be inappropriate. Much respect to your friend, fighting the good fight.

    I was always curious about who the Finn in question was. I suspected it was the great man himself.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/refugees-welcome/#comment-2411276

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-43/#comment-2353217

  17. @Passer by
    And now it spread to UK
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dnwN9nmTZM

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Morton's toes

    [MORE]

  18. @Beckow
    The corona basically unplugged the pre-2020 world and it won't matter much whether the panic was justified or not, the previous global, liberal world will stay unplugged. There is no way back and the assorted Merkels, Trumps, BoJos and Macrons are at this point side characters. The global liberals are on a last-ditch fanatical offensive - it doesn't get any more silly than mass kneeling in from of a porn-actor effigy. I doubt they can prevail, but they will try. The other side - nationalist, conservative, traditional whatever they are called - either finally gets some balls or they might as well withdraw to the countryside. You can't fight something with nothing.

    We are also celebrating 100 years since Trianon Treaty that freed 10's of millions of people in Central Europe from the Habsburg-Magyar idiocy. Some still cry over it, to them I say that Trianon was an inevitable consequence of the stale, inbred Habsburgs and the irrational, narcissistic Magyars and what they did in the generation preceding WWI. Stupidity has consequences, there is a lesson there for today's morons who can't accept reality. Franz Ferdinand and corona have a lot in common.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @songbird, @Alexander Turok, @Old Palo Altan

    A reunification of Austria-Hungary with Orban crowned emperor would be pretty nice.

    All sorts of nuts are acting like Hungary, a nation of 10 million, is equivalent to Nazi Germany and should be feared as much because Orban hasn’t signed on to subsidize Africans invading and gays having babies. I’d like to see it taken to the next level, by an Austria-Hungary reunification, preferably adding in an EU and NATO exit.

    The newly-formed intelligence service ought to have enough resources to discredit the German leadership, and come to the aid of native Germans.

  19. @anonymous coward
    @Beckow


    ...it doesn’t get any more silly than mass kneeling in from of a porn-actor effigy.
     
    The party is only getting started, buckle up.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Yeah, we are at the beginning…

  20. Watched Wolf Warrior 2 recently – thought it was super-cucked. Not joking.

    • Agree: Kent Nationalist
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @songbird

    Not enough diversity !

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTzYeBwjjP18lT2VrlPkIS3jWPtcwXNAaOebV-LlsC__optwKye&usqp.jpg

    Replies: @songbird

  21. @mal
    RIP Jon Hellevig. He was one of the better financial analysts out there.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    Anatoly please delete this comment if you believe it to be inappropriate. Much respect to your friend, fighting the good fight.

    I was always curious about who the Finn in question was. I suspected it was the great man himself.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/refugees-welcome/#comment-2411276

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-43/#comment-2353217

    • Thanks: Anatoly Karlin
  22. Thanks for the link to Hellevig’s book. While I often disagree with you, that looks interesting.

    Putin seems to me to be the sort of leader any country should have.

    Is there an Austrian/German name that is similar? Hellwig?

    After all, Germany and Austria really should be one country!

  23. Make no mistake, the whole BLM movement that is plaguing the world is entirely the fault of white people.

    White people deserve to see their cities burn for weaponizing black people against other nations for so long. And to see this finally blow up in white peoples faces is enjoyable.

    Because of white people, even countries who have no history of animosity against blacks are going to have to virtue signal and bend over backwards to accommodate blacks.

    The west cannot die quickly enough.

    • Agree: Ghan-buri-Ghan
    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
    @Tor597

    Understatement.

    Given more than 80% of births over the next 80 years are predicted to be African, nigger lovers are a Grade A biological threat to Humans (Africans are separate species).

    I would rather Delhi be nuked & salted (on a good day) than have 1 nigger in it||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

    Replies: @neutral

  24. Hi Anatoly, long time reader here, a very occasional commenter. Two questions, if you don’t mind:
    1. Are there any indications on when Russia is going to open the borders to foreign travel? The national tourist portal https://russia.travel/travel-notice/ redirecting from the Russian consulate page still says “closed till May 1”. Same on https://www.russiatourism.ru/en/contents/turistam/information-for-visitors-to-russia/safety-and-health/
    I was hoping to take my family to Москва and Санкт-Петербург this summer (spend half of our summer vacation in Serbia, which is home, and half in Russia), so this is forcing a change of plans, which is a bummer.
    2. Any comment on the manifesto that Зюганов published a few weeks ago, Русский стержень Державы? https://kprf.ru/party-live/cknews/194458.html
    It affirms that Orthodoxy is the foundation of Russian civilization. (I read an abbreviated Serbian translation.) Is this a new position for КПРФ, or not? It seems pretty genuine. It would be great to read your take on it.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Chet Bradley


    Is this a new position for КПРФ
     
    I was at a birthday party with one of Zyuganov's close relatives 20 years ago. Even back then his daughter was kind of an (Orthodox) religious fanatic; she may have been a positive influence on her father.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Chet Bradley

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Chet Bradley

    Yes, I remember you - Serb-American, IIRC? Feel free to call me up if/when you do go to Moscow.

    1. I don't know the details, sorry. But personally speaking, I wouldn't bank on doing much in the way of international travel this year.

    2. The KPRF is socially conservative and willing to make some limited concessions to Russian nationalism.
    That will probably not continue as the old Marxoids and older normie commie voters die out, and the party is replaced by Westernist neo-Bolshevik SJWs.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Chet Bradley

  25. @songbird
    Watched Wolf Warrior 2 recently - thought it was super-cucked. Not joking.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    Not enough diversity !

    [MORE]

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Blinky Bill

    If things keep going this way, I might have to switch to watching Bollywood films!

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Blinky Bill

  26. @Blinky Bill
    @songbird

    Not enough diversity !

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTzYeBwjjP18lT2VrlPkIS3jWPtcwXNAaOebV-LlsC__optwKye&usqp.jpg

    Replies: @songbird

    If things keep going this way, I might have to switch to watching Bollywood films!

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @songbird

    I did not watch a single movie since Fahrenheit 9/11. Saved a lot of time and did not miss anything of value.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Blinky Bill
    @songbird



    https://youtu.be/Q4SNsgwXsys

    Replies: @songbird

  27. @songbird
    @Blinky Bill

    If things keep going this way, I might have to switch to watching Bollywood films!

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Blinky Bill

    I did not watch a single movie since Fahrenheit 9/11. Saved a lot of time and did not miss anything of value.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AnonFromTN


    I did not watch a single movie since Fahrenheit 9/11.
     
    Hollywood easily exceeds Sturgeon's Law. Films are a work of ambition - it takes a lot of people cooperating to make a serious film. Many things can go wrong, and when you add in certain perverse incentives, they rarely go right.

    I only rarely watch very recent films, but the last movie from the West that I enjoyed on some level - it was far from perfect - was They Shall Not Grow Old (2018) - a documentary about WWI. I also watched the movie 1917, but I did not like it. Sometimes, it is interesting to see a movie, just to figure out the reasons that you don't like it.

    I think as human beings, we all need stories. And on occasions where I have to read a lot during the day, the last thing I want to do is crack open a book at night - there's a limit to what the eyes can do. So, I think sometimes it is nice to watch a movie, especially if you sit outside, and have a fire. Sometimes, it is nice to see the films of other countries too - it is almost like traveling there.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonFromTN

  28. @songbird
    @Blinky Bill

    If things keep going this way, I might have to switch to watching Bollywood films!

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Blinky Bill

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Blinky Bill

    Of all the countries with pre-1900 black populations, IMO, India is the most surprising. It would be fascinating to analyze their DNA, especially the admixed ones. I knew of them, but had no idea that they were on the dole.
    I thought India was racist - I am disappointed.

    Honestly, had no idea that were still Asiatic lions. But maybe it makes sense, as perhaps tigers, which are not social, would have trouble hunting elephants. I guess being social is also sort of a curse, and makes it harder to survive in a human-populated environment.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

  29. @N9
    @Dieter Kief

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/gulna2/i_used_to_teach_in_a_black_inner_city_school/

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Kent Nationalist, @Menes

    Fact is, it IS their culture. That’s why they are exactly where they are, and will never get anywhere else as long as this is their culture.

  30. Mitt Romney and George Bush think they can use the Red Guards to defeat Trump and get back their Republican party.

    Is there any reason to not just embrace accelerationism? Why would anyone show up to fight on the right-wing side if right-wing elites take the side of revolutionaries? These turncoats will not have any friends and they’ll be the first people to go to the camps. If history is any guide, after that the revolutionaries are going to turn on the blacks and then they’re going to turn on all the rest of the minority coalition and then finally they’re going to turn on themselves.

  31. @Beckow
    The corona basically unplugged the pre-2020 world and it won't matter much whether the panic was justified or not, the previous global, liberal world will stay unplugged. There is no way back and the assorted Merkels, Trumps, BoJos and Macrons are at this point side characters. The global liberals are on a last-ditch fanatical offensive - it doesn't get any more silly than mass kneeling in from of a porn-actor effigy. I doubt they can prevail, but they will try. The other side - nationalist, conservative, traditional whatever they are called - either finally gets some balls or they might as well withdraw to the countryside. You can't fight something with nothing.

    We are also celebrating 100 years since Trianon Treaty that freed 10's of millions of people in Central Europe from the Habsburg-Magyar idiocy. Some still cry over it, to them I say that Trianon was an inevitable consequence of the stale, inbred Habsburgs and the irrational, narcissistic Magyars and what they did in the generation preceding WWI. Stupidity has consequences, there is a lesson there for today's morons who can't accept reality. Franz Ferdinand and corona have a lot in common.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @songbird, @Alexander Turok, @Old Palo Altan

    Merkel, Bojo, and Macron all saw increases in approval ratings due to corona. Trump saw a very brief one, would have been stronger and lasted longer were he less of a moron.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Alexander Turok

    Bono has fallen since, more than most world leaders. The Indonesian did worse.

  32. @Kent Nationalist
    How will the current negrolatrous uprising end?

    Replies: @mal, @AKAHorace, @ImmortalRationalist

    If what we have been told about coronavirus is true the current BLM riots and demonstrations are an almost perfect way of spreading it. Things might change in a few weeks if coronavirus returns because of this; a lot of people would have a lot of explaining to do.

  33. @Chet Bradley
    Hi Anatoly, long time reader here, a very occasional commenter. Two questions, if you don’t mind:
    1. Are there any indications on when Russia is going to open the borders to foreign travel? The national tourist portal https://russia.travel/travel-notice/ redirecting from the Russian consulate page still says “closed till May 1”. Same on https://www.russiatourism.ru/en/contents/turistam/information-for-visitors-to-russia/safety-and-health/
    I was hoping to take my family to Москва and Санкт-Петербург this summer (spend half of our summer vacation in Serbia, which is home, and half in Russia), so this is forcing a change of plans, which is a bummer.
    2. Any comment on the manifesto that Зюганов published a few weeks ago, Русский стержень Державы? https://kprf.ru/party-live/cknews/194458.html
    It affirms that Orthodoxy is the foundation of Russian civilization. (I read an abbreviated Serbian translation.) Is this a new position for КПРФ, or not? It seems pretty genuine. It would be great to read your take on it.

    Replies: @AP, @Anatoly Karlin

    Is this a new position for КПРФ

    I was at a birthday party with one of Zyuganov’s close relatives 20 years ago. Even back then his daughter was kind of an (Orthodox) religious fanatic; she may have been a positive influence on her father.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AP

    They really are fond of mixing up some Russian Orthodox pseudo religious babble with pseudo Stalinist drivel.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/it6UFSyk5H8jFCib6

    But it won't get them any sympathy from people under 30 years old.

    КПРФ is a simulacrum for babushka and dedushka.

    It only serves as controlled opposition.

    All political parties in RusFed are political technology constructs.

    Only fringe elements still believe in ideology there.

    , @Chet Bradley
    @AP

    Thanks!

  34. “Fact is, it IS their culture.”

    Yes, but only partly is culture the cause. Perhaps 30% or so, would say the denounced Bouchard Minnesota twin studies, later confirmed by the denounced larger Swedish study; these looked at twins separated at birth. I don’t mean to trigger 1,000 comments, and produce the winner of the “most popular essay prize” in the next Unz weekly digest, but this needed to be said.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @SafeNow

    I can’t say much about those studies. I did not conduct my own (not my field). However, I personally encountered several perfectly normal hard-working bright and successful blacks. They were all from Africa. So, presumably they had the same genes, but their attitude was different. They worked, like the rest of us, and did not expect any freebies. Hence the success.

    The same goes for prejudice (which looters call “racism” and “white privilege”). I am sure these African blacks encountered whatever anti-black prejudice there is, as they look as black (often blacker) than American blacks. Yet that did not prevent their success, even if it made it harder to achieve. My conclusion: woeful underachievement of local blacks cannot be explained by anything except their own attitude. There are very few fields for which militant ignorant morons are fit, mostly sports and criminality. That’s exactly where those “oppressed” end up.

  35. @N9
    @Dieter Kief

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/gulna2/i_used_to_teach_in_a_black_inner_city_school/

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Kent Nationalist, @Menes

    Most of the comments are ‘it’s their parents’ fault’ or ‘it’s the fault of the head teacher’s internalised racism’. Is there anything which would make these people accept that this is just the way things are and stop viewing poor black behaviour through the frame of personal moral failing?

  36. @Jatt Arya
    @Europe Europa


    Among the anthropologically defined 356 contemporary societies of Euro-Asia and Africa, there is a large and significant negative correlation between Christianization (for at least 500 years) and the absence of clans and lineages; the level of commercialization, class stratification, and state formation are insignificant.”
     
    They've been christian the longest.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Charlotte

    Protestants aren’t Christian.

    (Christianity is what they’re “protesting” about in the first place.)

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    @anonymous coward

    Actually Protestantism is the purest Christianity. It's Catholicism they're "protesting" about, and most Catholics call themselves "Catholic" before "Christian".

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Menes

    , @nickels
    @anonymous coward

    I tended to agree.
    Until I realized Catholics and Orthodox aren’t Christian either.

    Replies: @HallParvey

  37. @Jatt Arya
    @Europe Europa


    Among the anthropologically defined 356 contemporary societies of Euro-Asia and Africa, there is a large and significant negative correlation between Christianization (for at least 500 years) and the absence of clans and lineages; the level of commercialization, class stratification, and state formation are insignificant.”
     
    They've been christian the longest.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Charlotte

    I’m not sure that is the driver. At the time of the US Civil War, both Northern and Southern whites were strongly against race mixing, though they tended to disagree on whether slavery caused or prevented it. There was a fair bit of quiet opposition to it when I was a kid, back in the 1980s.

  38. @Chet Bradley
    Hi Anatoly, long time reader here, a very occasional commenter. Two questions, if you don’t mind:
    1. Are there any indications on when Russia is going to open the borders to foreign travel? The national tourist portal https://russia.travel/travel-notice/ redirecting from the Russian consulate page still says “closed till May 1”. Same on https://www.russiatourism.ru/en/contents/turistam/information-for-visitors-to-russia/safety-and-health/
    I was hoping to take my family to Москва and Санкт-Петербург this summer (spend half of our summer vacation in Serbia, which is home, and half in Russia), so this is forcing a change of plans, which is a bummer.
    2. Any comment on the manifesto that Зюганов published a few weeks ago, Русский стержень Державы? https://kprf.ru/party-live/cknews/194458.html
    It affirms that Orthodoxy is the foundation of Russian civilization. (I read an abbreviated Serbian translation.) Is this a new position for КПРФ, or not? It seems pretty genuine. It would be great to read your take on it.

    Replies: @AP, @Anatoly Karlin

    Yes, I remember you – Serb-American, IIRC? Feel free to call me up if/when you do go to Moscow.

    1. I don’t know the details, sorry. But personally speaking, I wouldn’t bank on doing much in the way of international travel this year.

    2. The KPRF is socially conservative and willing to make some limited concessions to Russian nationalism.
    That will probably not continue as the old Marxoids and older normie commie voters die out, and the party is replaced by Westernist neo-Bolshevik SJWs.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Anatoly Karlin


    That will probably not continue as the old Marxoids and older normie commie voters die out, and the party is replaced by Westernist neo-Bolshevik SJWs.
     
    Is there any left wing revival going on in RusFed?

    My impression was that left wing ideas were so thoroughly discredited there, especially with the younger generation, that all form of leftism was doomed to fail.

    Am I missing some neo- Trotskyism brewing up in younger minds in Moscow?

    Žižekism maybe?

    When I go there (haven't been since 2018) no one talks about politics seriously, so it's hard to know what's going on.

    Replies: @another anon

    , @Chet Bradley
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Спасибо, Anatoly. Yes, that's me. Thanks for the invite, will let you know when we go to Moscow.

    For me it's a question of when, not if, unless the world ends in the meantime. :) This year seems unlikely; I can hold off finalizing the plans for about another month, but then I have to decide. If we can travel we will; if not Russia, then Serbia and a side trip to Greece.

    Related to the current situation: my wife is East Asian and we have two pre-teen kids. I have a good sense for the pulse of a society and have been telling my wife (occasionally) for about a decade that the U.S. is going down the tubes, and that it's mostly self-inflicted. She's been dismissive this whole time, saying "no country is perfect, this is still the best place, who else would take us?" Now she's changed the tune. The amount of auto-destructive insanity on display has become too much.

    That doesn't mean an immediate change of plans, but rather a change in attitude and long-term plans. We're even starting to think about Russia as a place for kids to go to college some day. There are universities offering serious degrees taught in English, although it would serve my kids well if they learned Russian (they understand Serbian but don't speak much). It also matters that Russia is a serious, sovereign country, which can't be said for either Serbia or my wife's home country.

  39. @anonymous coward
    @Jatt Arya

    Protestants aren't Christian.

    (Christianity is what they're "protesting" about in the first place.)

    Replies: @Europe Europa, @nickels

    Actually Protestantism is the purest Christianity. It’s Catholicism they’re “protesting” about, and most Catholics call themselves “Catholic” before “Christian”.

    • Agree: Jatt Arya
    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Europe Europa


    It’s Catholicism they’re “protesting” about...
     
    No, they're protesting about Christ's church. The one he came to earth to found. Christ never wrote any holy book or taught any creed; he founded a Church.

    ...and most Catholics call themselves “Catholic” before “Christian”.
     
    Absolutely irrelevant here. Most protestants are good Christians (God finds a way), but the protestant religion is, at its fundamental core, anti-Christian.

    (This internal and unsustainable dynamic is why the so-called 'West' is dying out from cuckoldry at the moment, by the way.)

    , @Menes
    @Europe Europa


    Actually Protestantism is the purest Christianity. It’s Catholicism they’re “protesting” about, and most Catholics call themselves “Catholic” before “Christian”.
     
    The purest Christianity would be the Teachings of Jesus. Not the Sacrifice of Jesus.

    Replies: @anonymous coward

  40. @Tor597
    Make no mistake, the whole BLM movement that is plaguing the world is entirely the fault of white people.

    White people deserve to see their cities burn for weaponizing black people against other nations for so long. And to see this finally blow up in white peoples faces is enjoyable.

    Because of white people, even countries who have no history of animosity against blacks are going to have to virtue signal and bend over backwards to accommodate blacks.

    The west cannot die quickly enough.

    Replies: @Jatt Arya

    Understatement.

    Given more than 80% of births over the next 80 years are predicted to be African, nigger lovers are a Grade A biological threat to Humans (Africans are separate species).

    I would rather Delhi be nuked & salted (on a good day) than have 1 nigger in it||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

    • Replies: @neutral
    @Jatt Arya

    I am fairly certain that niggers are already in Dehli.

  41. Most British right wingers always assumed that it would be a Muslim uprising that would destroy Britain. They never ever thought it would be a black Marxist revolution, they thought blacks were their friends lol.

    Reading the comments on sites like Breitbart, the sense of confusion and despair from the “counter Jihad” right is clear. This is all so different from how they thought societal collapse would play out that frankly they don’t know how to respond to it. They’ll rip Churchill’s statue down completely next, and the right wingers will just watch helplessly in amazement.

  42. After the Bolsheviks destroyed Russian culinary traditions (including by burning cookbooks so that people would not know what they went missing), the old pre-revolutionary Russian aristocratic culinary traditions survived in Finland, which used to be a part of the Empire, in form of Russian restaurants that stayed in operation up to these days, and also in family traditions.

    Is there any more information on this?
    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else. A destruction of culinary traditions is one of the subtlest but most insidious parts of an ethnocide.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    Is there any more information on this?
     
    No, because it's total bullshit.

    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else.
     
    Which is also total bullshit.

    One thing is true, though: the American obsession with 'cuisine' and food in general is absolute cuckoldry and a sign of a dying people. Russians would never admit that they're eating 'cuisine' instead of good nutrition balanced for work and health.

    Replies: @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    , @Swedish Family
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    Is there any more information on this?
    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else. A destruction of culinary traditions is one of the subtlest but most insidious parts of an ethnocide.
     
    You are wrong, but it's true that Russian cooking took a nosedive when the revolution came. Anya von Bremzen touches on this in her (excellent) Mastering the Art of Soviet Cooking:

    For my tenth birthday my parents gave me Moscow and Muscovites, a book by Vladimir Giliarovsky, darling of fin-de-siècle Moscow, who covered city affairs for several local newspapers. Combining a Dickensian eye with the racy style of a tabloid journalist, plus a dash of Zola-esque naturalism, Giliarovsky offered in Moscow and Muscovites an entertaining, if exhausting, panorama of our city at the turn of the century.

    As a kid, I cut straight to the porn—the dining-out parts.

    During the twentieth century’s opening decade, Moscow’s restaurant scene approached a kind of Slavophilic ideal. Unlike the then-capital St. Petersburg—regarded as pompous, bureaucratic, and quintessentially foreign—Moscow worked hard to live up to its moniker “bread-and-salty” (hospitable)—a merchant city at heart, uncorrupted by the phony veneer of European manners and foods. In St. Petersburg you dressed up to nibble tiny portions of foie gras and oysters at a French restaurant. In Moscow you gorged, unabashedly, obliviously, orgiastically at a traktir, a vernacular Russian tavern. Originally of working-class origins, Moscow’s best traktirs in Giliarovsky’s days welcomed everyone: posh nobles and meek provincial landowners, loud-voiced actors from Moscow Art Theater, and merchants clinching the million-ruble deals that fueled this whole Slavophilic restaurant boom. You’d never see such a social cocktail in cold, classist St. Petersburg.

    Stomach growling, I stayed up nights devouring Giliarovsky. From him I learned that the airiest blini were served at Egorov’s traktir, baked in a special stove that stood in the middle of the dining room. That at Lopashov traktir, run by a bearded, gruff Old Believer, the city’s plumpest pelmeni—dumplings filled with meat, fish, or fruit in a bubbly rosé champagne sauce—were lapped up with folkloric wooden spoons by Siberian gold-mining merchants. That grand dukes from St. Petersburg endured the four-hundred-mile train journey southeast just to eat at Testov, Moscow’s most celebrated traktir. Testov was famed for its suckling pigs that the owner reared at his dacha (“like his own children,” except for the restraints around their trotters to prevent them from resisting being force-fed for plumpness); its three-hundred-pound sturgeons and sterlets transported live from the Volga; and Guriev kasha, a fanciful baked semolina sweet layered with candied nuts and slightly burnt cream skins, served in individual skillets.

    And kulebiaka. The most obscenely decadent kulebiaka in town.

    Offered under the special name of Baidakov’s Pie (nobody really knew who this Baidakov was) and ordered days in advance, Testov’s golden-cased tour de force was the creation of its 350-pound chef named Lyonechka. Among other things, Lyonechka was notorious for his habit of drinking shchi (cabbage soup) mixed with frozen champagne as a hangover remedy. His kulebiaka was a twelve-tiered skyscraper, starting with the ground floor of burbot liver and topped with layers of fish, meat, game, mushrooms, and rice, all wrapped in dough, up, up, up to a penthouse of calf’s brains in brown butter.

    ***

    And then it all came crashing down.

    In just a bony fistful of years, classical Russian food culture vanished, almost without a trace. The country’s nationalistic euphoria on entering World War I in 1914 collapsed under nonstop disasters presided over by the “last of the Romanovs”: clueless, autocratic czar Nicholas II and Alexandra, his reactionary, hysterical German-born wife. Imperial Russia went lurching toward breakdown and starvation. Golden pies, suckling pigs? In 1917 the insurgent Bolsheviks’ banners demanded simply the most basic of staples—khleb (bread)—along with land (beleaguered peasants were 80 percent of Russia’s population) and an end to the ruinous war. On the evening of October 25, hours before the coup by Lenin and his tiny cadre, ministers of Kerensky’s foundering provisional government, which replaced the czar after the popular revolution of February 1917, dined finely at the Winter Palace: soup, artichokes, and fish. A doomed meal all around.

    With rationing already in force, the Bolsheviks quickly introduced a harsher system of class-based food allotments. Heavy manual laborers became the new privileged; Testov’s fancy diners plunged down the totem pole. Grigory Zinoviev, the head of local government in Petrograd (ex–St. Petersburg), announced rations for the bourgeoisie thusly: “We shall give them one ounce a day so they won’t forget the smell of bread.” He added with relish: “But if we must go over to milled straw, then we shall put the bourgeoisie on it first of all.”

    The country, engulfed now by civil war, was rushed toward a full-blown, and catastrophic, centralized communist model. War Communism (it was given that temporary-sounding tag after the fact) ran from mid-1918 through early 1921, when Lenin abandoned it for a more mixed economic approach. But from that time until the Soviet Union’s very end, food was to be not just a matter of chronic uncertainty but a stark tool of political and social control. To use a Russian phrase, knut i prianik: whip and gingerbread.

    There was scarce gingerbread at this point.

    Strikes in Petrograd in 1919 protested the taste (or lack thereof) of the new Soviet diet. Even revolutionary bigwigs at the city’s Smolny canteen subsisted on vile herring soup and gluey millet. At the Kremlin in Moscow, the new seat of government, the situation was so awful that the famously ascetic Lenin—Mr. Stale Bread and Weak Tea, who ate mostly at home—ordered several investigations into why the Kremlyovka (Kremlin canteen) served such inedible stuff. Here’s what the investigation found: the cooks couldn’t actually cook. Most pre-revolutionary chefs, waiters, and other food types had been fired as part of the massive reorganization of labor, and the new ones had been hired from other professions to avoid using “czarist cadres.” “Iron Felix” Dzerzhinsky, the dread founding maestro of Soviet terror, was besieged by requests from Kremlin staffers for towels for the Kremlyovka kitchens. Also aprons and jackets for cooks. Mrs. Trotsky kept asking for tea strainers. In vain.

    Part of the Kremlyovka’s troubles sprang from another of War Communism’s policies: having declared itself the sole purveyor and marketer of food, and setter of food prices, the Kremlin was not supposed to procure from private sources. And yet. The black market that immediately sprang up became—and remained—a defining and permanent fixture of Soviet life. Lenin might have railed against petty speculators called meshochniki (bagmen), the private individuals who braved Dzerzhinsky’s Cheka (secret police) roving patrols to bring back foodstuffs from the countryside, often for their own starving families. But in fact most of the calories consumed in Russia’s cities during this dire period were supplied by such illegal operators. In the winter of 1919–20, they supplied as much as 75 percent of the food consumed, maybe more. By War Communism’s end, an estimated 200,000 bagmen were riding the rails in the breadbasket of the Ukraine.

    War Communism showed an especially harsh face to the peasantry. An emphatically urban party, the Bolsheviks had little grasp of peasant realities, despite all the hammer-and-sickle imagery and early nods toward land distribution. To combat drastic grain shortages—blamed on speculative withholding—Lenin called down a “food dictatorship” and a “crusade for bread.” Armed detachments stalked the countryside, confiscating “surpluses” to feed the Red Army and the hungry, traumatically shrunken cities. This was the hated prodrazverstka (grain requisitioning)—a preview of the greater horrors to come under Stalin. There was more. To incite Marxist class warfare in villages, the poorest peasants were stirred up against their better-off kind, the so-called kulaks (“tight-fisted ones”)—vile bourgeois-like objects of Bolshevik venom. “Hang (hang without fail, so the people see) no fewer than one hundred known kulaks, rich men, bloodsuckers,” Lenin instructed provincial leaders in 1918. Though as Zinoviev later noted: “We are fond of describing any peasant who has enough to eat as a kulak.”

    And so was launched a swelling, unevenly matched war by the radicalized, industrialized cities—the minority—to bring to heel the conservative, religion-saturated, profoundly mistrustful countryside—the vast majority. Who were never truly fervent Bolshevik supporters.

    Agriculture under War Communism plummeted. By 1920, grain output was down to only 60 percent of pre–World War I levels, when Russia had been a significant exporter.

    It goes without saying that the concept of cuisine went out the window in those ferocious times. The very notion of pleasure from flavor-some food was reviled as capitalist degeneracy. Mayakovsky, brazen poet of the revolution, sicced his jeering muses on gourmet fancies:

    Eat your pineapples, gobble your grouse

    Your last day is coming, you bourgeois louse!

    Food was fuel for survival and socialist labor. Food was a weapon of class struggle. Anything that smacked of Testov’s brand of lipsmacking—kulebiaka would be a buttery bull’s-eye—constituted a reactionary attack on the world being born. Some czarist traktirs and restaurants were shuttered and looted; others were nationalized and turned into public canteens with the utopian goal of serving new kinds of foods, supposedly futuristic and rational, to the newly Soviet masses.

    Not until two decades later, following the abolition of yet another wave of rationing policies, did the state support efforts to seek out old professional chefs and revive some traditional recipes, at least in print. It was part of a whole new Soviet Cuisine project courtesy of Stalin’s food-supply commissariat. A few czarist dishes came peeping back, tricked out in Soviet duds, right then and later.

    But the bona fide, layered fish kulebiaka, darling of yore, resurfaced only in Putin’s Moscow, at resurrect-the-Romanovs restaurants, ordered up by oligarch types clinching oil deals.
     

    Replies: @AP

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    I haven't studied the issue in depth - though there are a couple of prominent celebrity chefs in Russia, Maxim Syrnikov and Vlad Piskunov come to mind, who specialize in recreating pre-revolutionary cuisine.

    I briefly mentioned the former in my travelogue on Veliky Novgorod: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/novgorod-2018/

    My Twitter thread on Russia's steak culture: https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1171771252488515585

    Also worth noting that such culinary destruction isn't always due to Communist leveling. For instance, the British had a surprisingly rich culinary tradition in the 19th century. But for whatever reason (many that one can name), they didn't manage to preserve it - unlike, say, the French.


    ***

    PS. Also the usual disclaimer - whenever anonymous coward claims something, assume the opposite is true.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Mary Marianne

    , @Ray P
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    It strikes me as weird for either Lenin or Stalin to have approved of this destruction given what is said here about Stalin visiting Lenin in Cracow during November of nineteen twelve:


    [In Cracow] Lenin welcomed Stalin and put him at his ease: food brought them closer. Krupskaya served sausegy German food, which Stalin suffered for two days but then could not resist saying to Lenin 'I'm hungry - I crave Shashlik!' Lenin agreed 'Me too, I'm ravenous, but I'm afraid of offending Nadya. Have you got money? Come on, let's go eat somewhere.'

    -- Simon Sebag Montefiore, Young Stalin

     

    The rest of the country went without after the revolution but the Kremlin bosses carried on dining with their favourite traditional dishes?
  43. @Kent Nationalist
    How will the current negrolatrous uprising end?

    Replies: @mal, @AKAHorace, @ImmortalRationalist

    Cities like Minneapolis committing economic suicide.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @ImmortalRationalist

    City of Minneapolis is committing a comprehensive suicide. Their cuck-dominated city council decided to dismantle the police and replace it with some “community safety” BS. If they do that, Minneapolis has only one way to go: the way of Detroit. Most normal people would flee gang-infested shithole Minneapolis would become. Personally, I would never even visit that favela.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @ImmortalRationalist, @Thorfinnsson

  44. @mal
    @Kent Nationalist

    With Trump reelection probably.

    Replies: @ImmortalRationalist

    Trump would have won Minnesota if it hadn’t been for Evan McMullin.

  45. @AP
    @Chet Bradley


    Is this a new position for КПРФ
     
    I was at a birthday party with one of Zyuganov's close relatives 20 years ago. Even back then his daughter was kind of an (Orthodox) religious fanatic; she may have been a positive influence on her father.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Chet Bradley

    They really are fond of mixing up some Russian Orthodox pseudo religious babble with pseudo Stalinist drivel.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/it6UFSyk5H8jFCib6

    But it won’t get them any sympathy from people under 30 years old.

    КПРФ is a simulacrum for babushka and dedushka.

    It only serves as controlled opposition.

    All political parties in RusFed are political technology constructs.

    Only fringe elements still believe in ideology there.

  46. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Chet Bradley

    Yes, I remember you - Serb-American, IIRC? Feel free to call me up if/when you do go to Moscow.

    1. I don't know the details, sorry. But personally speaking, I wouldn't bank on doing much in the way of international travel this year.

    2. The KPRF is socially conservative and willing to make some limited concessions to Russian nationalism.
    That will probably not continue as the old Marxoids and older normie commie voters die out, and the party is replaced by Westernist neo-Bolshevik SJWs.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Chet Bradley

    That will probably not continue as the old Marxoids and older normie commie voters die out, and the party is replaced by Westernist neo-Bolshevik SJWs.

    Is there any left wing revival going on in RusFed?

    My impression was that left wing ideas were so thoroughly discredited there, especially with the younger generation, that all form of leftism was doomed to fail.

    Am I missing some neo- Trotskyism brewing up in younger minds in Moscow?

    Žižekism maybe?

    When I go there (haven’t been since 2018) no one talks about politics seriously, so it’s hard to know what’s going on.

    • Replies: @another anon
    @Ano4


    Is there any left wing revival going on in RusFed?
     
    Of course not, why there should be? True patriotic Russians are overjoyed when they can work 12 hours per day for minimum wage, as long as they work for pure Russian Orthodox Christian boss and no American or Jew.

    When I go there (haven’t been since 2018) no one talks about politics seriously, so it’s hard to know what’s going on.

     

    In Russia, it was always hard to know what is going on.

    During Brezhnev's stagnation time, could anyone predict Gorby and perestroika?

    During Gorby's optimistic time, could anyone predict Yeltsin's total collapse?

    During Yeltsin's nineties when everything went from bad to worse and from worse to total ruin, could anyone predict Putin?

    The same way, no one can predict what will come after Putin.
    Some futures are more plausible than other, but you can well imagine any of these characters taking over.

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/political-compass-russia-version.png

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  47. @Europe Europa
    @anonymous coward

    Actually Protestantism is the purest Christianity. It's Catholicism they're "protesting" about, and most Catholics call themselves "Catholic" before "Christian".

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Menes

    It’s Catholicism they’re “protesting” about…

    No, they’re protesting about Christ’s church. The one he came to earth to found. Christ never wrote any holy book or taught any creed; he founded a Church.

    …and most Catholics call themselves “Catholic” before “Christian”.

    Absolutely irrelevant here. Most protestants are good Christians (God finds a way), but the protestant religion is, at its fundamental core, anti-Christian.

    (This internal and unsustainable dynamic is why the so-called ‘West’ is dying out from cuckoldry at the moment, by the way.)

  48. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    After the Bolsheviks destroyed Russian culinary traditions (including by burning cookbooks so that people would not know what they went missing), the old pre-revolutionary Russian aristocratic culinary traditions survived in Finland, which used to be a part of the Empire, in form of Russian restaurants that stayed in operation up to these days, and also in family traditions.

     

    Is there any more information on this?
    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else. A destruction of culinary traditions is one of the subtlest but most insidious parts of an ethnocide.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Swedish Family, @Anatoly Karlin, @Ray P

    Is there any more information on this?

    No, because it’s total bullshit.

    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else.

    Which is also total bullshit.

    One thing is true, though: the American obsession with ‘cuisine’ and food in general is absolute cuckoldry and a sign of a dying people. Russians would never admit that they’re eating ‘cuisine’ instead of good nutrition balanced for work and health.

    • Replies: @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive
    @anonymous coward

    If you think obsession with "cuisine" is american you should really take a trip to Italy, where every small town has its own national dish, arancini, erbazzone, it's not just pizza. Russian "ethnic" cuisine limits itself to blinis and fish-head soup, and this for the largest country in the world?
    The only explanation I see is a culinarycide. That or Russians are uncreative hacks, borscht being ukrainian, pelmenis being uralic etc.
    Of course the latter wouldn't explain the absolute absence of regional dishes, regional, not local like Italy!

    Are you telling me that a continent wide empire, with exposure to all major eurasian cultures, lasting 100's of years as an agricultural powerhouse would only come up with fish head soup?

    Replies: @anonymous coward

  49. @anonymous coward
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    Is there any more information on this?
     
    No, because it's total bullshit.

    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else.
     
    Which is also total bullshit.

    One thing is true, though: the American obsession with 'cuisine' and food in general is absolute cuckoldry and a sign of a dying people. Russians would never admit that they're eating 'cuisine' instead of good nutrition balanced for work and health.

    Replies: @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    If you think obsession with “cuisine” is american you should really take a trip to Italy, where every small town has its own national dish, arancini, erbazzone, it’s not just pizza. Russian “ethnic” cuisine limits itself to blinis and fish-head soup, and this for the largest country in the world?
    The only explanation I see is a culinarycide. That or Russians are uncreative hacks, borscht being ukrainian, pelmenis being uralic etc.
    Of course the latter wouldn’t explain the absolute absence of regional dishes, regional, not local like Italy!

    Are you telling me that a continent wide empire, with exposure to all major eurasian cultures, lasting 100’s of years as an agricultural powerhouse would only come up with fish head soup?

    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    Thanks, I lived in Europe for years and I'm aware of European cuckoldry. We're discussing American cuckoldry here, though.

    Russians would die of shame if they had a 'cuisine' like some faggot ethnically dead people.


    Of course the latter wouldn’t explain the absolute absence of regional dishes, regional, not local like Italy!
     
    In reality, of course, the vast majority of Russian food is sourced locally. (All Russians are 'locavores'.) This is in stark contrast with America or even Europe.

    (So of course e.g., food in Vladivostok is vastly different that food in Voronezh.)
  50. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    After the Bolsheviks destroyed Russian culinary traditions (including by burning cookbooks so that people would not know what they went missing), the old pre-revolutionary Russian aristocratic culinary traditions survived in Finland, which used to be a part of the Empire, in form of Russian restaurants that stayed in operation up to these days, and also in family traditions.

     

    Is there any more information on this?
    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else. A destruction of culinary traditions is one of the subtlest but most insidious parts of an ethnocide.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Swedish Family, @Anatoly Karlin, @Ray P

    Is there any more information on this?
    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else. A destruction of culinary traditions is one of the subtlest but most insidious parts of an ethnocide.

    You are wrong, but it’s true that Russian cooking took a nosedive when the revolution came. Anya von Bremzen touches on this in her (excellent) Mastering the Art of Soviet Cooking:

    For my tenth birthday my parents gave me Moscow and Muscovites, a book by Vladimir Giliarovsky, darling of fin-de-siècle Moscow, who covered city affairs for several local newspapers. Combining a Dickensian eye with the racy style of a tabloid journalist, plus a dash of Zola-esque naturalism, Giliarovsky offered in Moscow and Muscovites an entertaining, if exhausting, panorama of our city at the turn of the century.

    As a kid, I cut straight to the porn—the dining-out parts.

    During the twentieth century’s opening decade, Moscow’s restaurant scene approached a kind of Slavophilic ideal. Unlike the then-capital St. Petersburg—regarded as pompous, bureaucratic, and quintessentially foreign—Moscow worked hard to live up to its moniker “bread-and-salty” (hospitable)—a merchant city at heart, uncorrupted by the phony veneer of European manners and foods. In St. Petersburg you dressed up to nibble tiny portions of foie gras and oysters at a French restaurant. In Moscow you gorged, unabashedly, obliviously, orgiastically at a traktir, a vernacular Russian tavern. Originally of working-class origins, Moscow’s best traktirs in Giliarovsky’s days welcomed everyone: posh nobles and meek provincial landowners, loud-voiced actors from Moscow Art Theater, and merchants clinching the million-ruble deals that fueled this whole Slavophilic restaurant boom. You’d never see such a social cocktail in cold, classist St. Petersburg.

    Stomach growling, I stayed up nights devouring Giliarovsky. From him I learned that the airiest blini were served at Egorov’s traktir, baked in a special stove that stood in the middle of the dining room. That at Lopashov traktir, run by a bearded, gruff Old Believer, the city’s plumpest pelmeni—dumplings filled with meat, fish, or fruit in a bubbly rosé champagne sauce—were lapped up with folkloric wooden spoons by Siberian gold-mining merchants. That grand dukes from St. Petersburg endured the four-hundred-mile train journey southeast just to eat at Testov, Moscow’s most celebrated traktir. Testov was famed for its suckling pigs that the owner reared at his dacha (“like his own children,” except for the restraints around their trotters to prevent them from resisting being force-fed for plumpness); its three-hundred-pound sturgeons and sterlets transported live from the Volga; and Guriev kasha, a fanciful baked semolina sweet layered with candied nuts and slightly burnt cream skins, served in individual skillets.

    And kulebiaka. The most obscenely decadent kulebiaka in town.

    Offered under the special name of Baidakov’s Pie (nobody really knew who this Baidakov was) and ordered days in advance, Testov’s golden-cased tour de force was the creation of its 350-pound chef named Lyonechka. Among other things, Lyonechka was notorious for his habit of drinking shchi (cabbage soup) mixed with frozen champagne as a hangover remedy. His kulebiaka was a twelve-tiered skyscraper, starting with the ground floor of burbot liver and topped with layers of fish, meat, game, mushrooms, and rice, all wrapped in dough, up, up, up to a penthouse of calf’s brains in brown butter.

    ***

    And then it all came crashing down.

    In just a bony fistful of years, classical Russian food culture vanished, almost without a trace. The country’s nationalistic euphoria on entering World War I in 1914 collapsed under nonstop disasters presided over by the “last of the Romanovs”: clueless, autocratic czar Nicholas II and Alexandra, his reactionary, hysterical German-born wife. Imperial Russia went lurching toward breakdown and starvation. Golden pies, suckling pigs? In 1917 the insurgent Bolsheviks’ banners demanded simply the most basic of staples—khleb (bread)—along with land (beleaguered peasants were 80 percent of Russia’s population) and an end to the ruinous war. On the evening of October 25, hours before the coup by Lenin and his tiny cadre, ministers of Kerensky’s foundering provisional government, which replaced the czar after the popular revolution of February 1917, dined finely at the Winter Palace: soup, artichokes, and fish. A doomed meal all around.

    With rationing already in force, the Bolsheviks quickly introduced a harsher system of class-based food allotments. Heavy manual laborers became the new privileged; Testov’s fancy diners plunged down the totem pole. Grigory Zinoviev, the head of local government in Petrograd (ex–St. Petersburg), announced rations for the bourgeoisie thusly: “We shall give them one ounce a day so they won’t forget the smell of bread.” He added with relish: “But if we must go over to milled straw, then we shall put the bourgeoisie on it first of all.”

    The country, engulfed now by civil war, was rushed toward a full-blown, and catastrophic, centralized communist model. War Communism (it was given that temporary-sounding tag after the fact) ran from mid-1918 through early 1921, when Lenin abandoned it for a more mixed economic approach. But from that time until the Soviet Union’s very end, food was to be not just a matter of chronic uncertainty but a stark tool of political and social control. To use a Russian phrase, knut i prianik: whip and gingerbread.

    There was scarce gingerbread at this point.

    Strikes in Petrograd in 1919 protested the taste (or lack thereof) of the new Soviet diet. Even revolutionary bigwigs at the city’s Smolny canteen subsisted on vile herring soup and gluey millet. At the Kremlin in Moscow, the new seat of government, the situation was so awful that the famously ascetic Lenin—Mr. Stale Bread and Weak Tea, who ate mostly at home—ordered several investigations into why the Kremlyovka (Kremlin canteen) served such inedible stuff. Here’s what the investigation found: the cooks couldn’t actually cook. Most pre-revolutionary chefs, waiters, and other food types had been fired as part of the massive reorganization of labor, and the new ones had been hired from other professions to avoid using “czarist cadres.” “Iron Felix” Dzerzhinsky, the dread founding maestro of Soviet terror, was besieged by requests from Kremlin staffers for towels for the Kremlyovka kitchens. Also aprons and jackets for cooks. Mrs. Trotsky kept asking for tea strainers. In vain.

    Part of the Kremlyovka’s troubles sprang from another of War Communism’s policies: having declared itself the sole purveyor and marketer of food, and setter of food prices, the Kremlin was not supposed to procure from private sources. And yet. The black market that immediately sprang up became—and remained—a defining and permanent fixture of Soviet life. Lenin might have railed against petty speculators called meshochniki (bagmen), the private individuals who braved Dzerzhinsky’s Cheka (secret police) roving patrols to bring back foodstuffs from the countryside, often for their own starving families. But in fact most of the calories consumed in Russia’s cities during this dire period were supplied by such illegal operators. In the winter of 1919–20, they supplied as much as 75 percent of the food consumed, maybe more. By War Communism’s end, an estimated 200,000 bagmen were riding the rails in the breadbasket of the Ukraine.

    War Communism showed an especially harsh face to the peasantry. An emphatically urban party, the Bolsheviks had little grasp of peasant realities, despite all the hammer-and-sickle imagery and early nods toward land distribution. To combat drastic grain shortages—blamed on speculative withholding—Lenin called down a “food dictatorship” and a “crusade for bread.” Armed detachments stalked the countryside, confiscating “surpluses” to feed the Red Army and the hungry, traumatically shrunken cities. This was the hated prodrazverstka (grain requisitioning)—a preview of the greater horrors to come under Stalin. There was more. To incite Marxist class warfare in villages, the poorest peasants were stirred up against their better-off kind, the so-called kulaks (“tight-fisted ones”)—vile bourgeois-like objects of Bolshevik venom. “Hang (hang without fail, so the people see) no fewer than one hundred known kulaks, rich men, bloodsuckers,” Lenin instructed provincial leaders in 1918. Though as Zinoviev later noted: “We are fond of describing any peasant who has enough to eat as a kulak.”

    And so was launched a swelling, unevenly matched war by the radicalized, industrialized cities—the minority—to bring to heel the conservative, religion-saturated, profoundly mistrustful countryside—the vast majority. Who were never truly fervent Bolshevik supporters.

    Agriculture under War Communism plummeted. By 1920, grain output was down to only 60 percent of pre–World War I levels, when Russia had been a significant exporter.

    It goes without saying that the concept of cuisine went out the window in those ferocious times. The very notion of pleasure from flavor-some food was reviled as capitalist degeneracy. Mayakovsky, brazen poet of the revolution, sicced his jeering muses on gourmet fancies:

    Eat your pineapples, gobble your grouse

    Your last day is coming, you bourgeois louse!

    Food was fuel for survival and socialist labor. Food was a weapon of class struggle. Anything that smacked of Testov’s brand of lipsmacking—kulebiaka would be a buttery bull’s-eye—constituted a reactionary attack on the world being born. Some czarist traktirs and restaurants were shuttered and looted; others were nationalized and turned into public canteens with the utopian goal of serving new kinds of foods, supposedly futuristic and rational, to the newly Soviet masses.

    Not until two decades later, following the abolition of yet another wave of rationing policies, did the state support efforts to seek out old professional chefs and revive some traditional recipes, at least in print. It was part of a whole new Soviet Cuisine project courtesy of Stalin’s food-supply commissariat. A few czarist dishes came peeping back, tricked out in Soviet duds, right then and later.

    But the bona fide, layered fish kulebiaka, darling of yore, resurfaced only in Putin’s Moscow, at resurrect-the-Romanovs restaurants, ordered up by oligarch types clinching oil deals.

    • Agree: utu
    • Thanks: Mr. Hack, Thorfinnsson
    • Replies: @AP
    @Swedish Family

    What a great post.

    In terms of Soviet cuisine, there were some bright spots. My wife has youthful memories of Georgian food in some resorts on the Georgian coast, Prague bakery on Arbat, and that the central committee’s dacha provided some incredible meals. So by the 80s, in selected places, one could find fancy things to eat.

    I had some very good “high Soviet” cuisine at the house of writers in Moscow in 2018.

    Replies: @AP, @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

  51. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    After the Bolsheviks destroyed Russian culinary traditions (including by burning cookbooks so that people would not know what they went missing), the old pre-revolutionary Russian aristocratic culinary traditions survived in Finland, which used to be a part of the Empire, in form of Russian restaurants that stayed in operation up to these days, and also in family traditions.

     

    Is there any more information on this?
    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else. A destruction of culinary traditions is one of the subtlest but most insidious parts of an ethnocide.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Swedish Family, @Anatoly Karlin, @Ray P

    I haven’t studied the issue in depth – though there are a couple of prominent celebrity chefs in Russia, Maxim Syrnikov and Vlad Piskunov come to mind, who specialize in recreating pre-revolutionary cuisine.

    I briefly mentioned the former in my travelogue on Veliky Novgorod: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/novgorod-2018/

    My Twitter thread on Russia’s steak culture: https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1171771252488515585

    Also worth noting that such culinary destruction isn’t always due to Communist leveling. For instance, the British had a surprisingly rich culinary tradition in the 19th century. But for whatever reason (many that one can name), they didn’t manage to preserve it – unlike, say, the French.

    ***

    PS. Also the usual disclaimer – whenever anonymous coward claims something, assume the opposite is true.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Anatoly Karlin


    PS. Also the usual disclaimer – whenever anonymous coward claims something, assume the opposite is true.
     
    You're not even Russian, so why do you act like you can comment pertinently?

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5bc240574414ed00aa22340c/glubinnyi-narod-poshel-v-narod-5c6fdea14f807500aeb456f2

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE_%D0%9F%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_(%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0)

    I am channeling the voice of the Russian people. Doing the monkey routine, shutting your ears and shouting "you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong" is pointless.

    Better get used to it, because what I'm saying now is what will be the main driver of the 21st century. Shift your assemblage point or you'll be left in the dustbin of history with the rest of the NPC cuckolds.
    , @Mary Marianne
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Perhaps it's mass education. I know that Dutch culinary traditions also used to be quite rich (influenced by northern French cuisine). At the start of the 20th century, however, mass education became available and girls were send to the so-called "Huishoudschool" where they learned skills of a domestic servant. This includes the skill of cooking healthy food for cheap, which apparently meant that one should make their food as bland and uniform as possible.

  52. Since this is an HDB blog, what were the genetic factors which led to what is basically known as peak white, the period from the end of the Napoleonic Wars to WW2, and the decline of non-Jewish white people since then? As late as 1946, 60 percent of Americans thought that Jews were untrustworthy and pushy in general, until the 1950s the Ivy League sharply limited its intake of Jewish students, and the Holocaust did not seem to enter into the popular vocabulary until the 1960s.

  53. In related news, the world finally recognizes Vladimir Lenin as great revolutionary of color.
    Another defeat of white supremacy!

    I hope Putin will offer to bury comrade Floyd in the Mausoleum, there is still free place left since Stalin was booted out.
    This way, Russia can gain eternal gratitude of all people of color all over the world.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @another anon


    I hope Putin will offer to bury comrade Floyd in the Mausoleum, there is still free place left since Stalin was booted out.
     
    Although there is a criminal lying there (used to be two), these were a different caliber of criminals. Russians won’t place a drug-addicted petty career criminal in a Mausoleum. People like that are kept in jail in the RF, which is their proper place.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  54. @Ano4
    @Anatoly Karlin


    That will probably not continue as the old Marxoids and older normie commie voters die out, and the party is replaced by Westernist neo-Bolshevik SJWs.
     
    Is there any left wing revival going on in RusFed?

    My impression was that left wing ideas were so thoroughly discredited there, especially with the younger generation, that all form of leftism was doomed to fail.

    Am I missing some neo- Trotskyism brewing up in younger minds in Moscow?

    Žižekism maybe?

    When I go there (haven't been since 2018) no one talks about politics seriously, so it's hard to know what's going on.

    Replies: @another anon

    Is there any left wing revival going on in RusFed?

    Of course not, why there should be? True patriotic Russians are overjoyed when they can work 12 hours per day for minimum wage, as long as they work for pure Russian Orthodox Christian boss and no American or Jew.

    When I go there (haven’t been since 2018) no one talks about politics seriously, so it’s hard to know what’s going on.

    In Russia, it was always hard to know what is going on.

    During Brezhnev’s stagnation time, could anyone predict Gorby and perestroika?

    During Gorby’s optimistic time, could anyone predict Yeltsin’s total collapse?

    During Yeltsin’s nineties when everything went from bad to worse and from worse to total ruin, could anyone predict Putin?

    The same way, no one can predict what will come after Putin.
    Some futures are more plausible than other, but you can well imagine any of these characters taking over.

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @another anon

    So with which one of these charismatic poster boys do you see yourself most closely aligned?

    It must be hard to be so politically active after working a 12 hour shift (at least you're happy)? :-)

    Replies: @another anon

  55. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    After the Bolsheviks destroyed Russian culinary traditions (including by burning cookbooks so that people would not know what they went missing), the old pre-revolutionary Russian aristocratic culinary traditions survived in Finland, which used to be a part of the Empire, in form of Russian restaurants that stayed in operation up to these days, and also in family traditions.

     

    Is there any more information on this?
    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else. A destruction of culinary traditions is one of the subtlest but most insidious parts of an ethnocide.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Swedish Family, @Anatoly Karlin, @Ray P

    It strikes me as weird for either Lenin or Stalin to have approved of this destruction given what is said here about Stalin visiting Lenin in Cracow during November of nineteen twelve:

    [In Cracow] Lenin welcomed Stalin and put him at his ease: food brought them closer. Krupskaya served sausegy German food, which Stalin suffered for two days but then could not resist saying to Lenin ‘I’m hungry – I crave Shashlik!’ Lenin agreed ‘Me too, I’m ravenous, but I’m afraid of offending Nadya. Have you got money? Come on, let’s go eat somewhere.’

    — Simon Sebag Montefiore, Young Stalin

    The rest of the country went without after the revolution but the Kremlin bosses carried on dining with their favourite traditional dishes?

  56. @another anon
    @Ano4


    Is there any left wing revival going on in RusFed?
     
    Of course not, why there should be? True patriotic Russians are overjoyed when they can work 12 hours per day for minimum wage, as long as they work for pure Russian Orthodox Christian boss and no American or Jew.

    When I go there (haven’t been since 2018) no one talks about politics seriously, so it’s hard to know what’s going on.

     

    In Russia, it was always hard to know what is going on.

    During Brezhnev's stagnation time, could anyone predict Gorby and perestroika?

    During Gorby's optimistic time, could anyone predict Yeltsin's total collapse?

    During Yeltsin's nineties when everything went from bad to worse and from worse to total ruin, could anyone predict Putin?

    The same way, no one can predict what will come after Putin.
    Some futures are more plausible than other, but you can well imagine any of these characters taking over.

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/political-compass-russia-version.png

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    So with which one of these charismatic poster boys do you see yourself most closely aligned?

    It must be hard to be so politically active after working a 12 hour shift (at least you’re happy)? 🙂

    • Replies: @another anon
    @Mr. Hack


    So with which one of these charismatic poster boys do you see yourself most closely aligned?
     
    Well, our host Anatoly stands at the quadripoint between monarchist, priest, putinist and neo-nazi.
    Who are we to question his wisdom?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Ano4

  57. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive
    @anonymous coward

    If you think obsession with "cuisine" is american you should really take a trip to Italy, where every small town has its own national dish, arancini, erbazzone, it's not just pizza. Russian "ethnic" cuisine limits itself to blinis and fish-head soup, and this for the largest country in the world?
    The only explanation I see is a culinarycide. That or Russians are uncreative hacks, borscht being ukrainian, pelmenis being uralic etc.
    Of course the latter wouldn't explain the absolute absence of regional dishes, regional, not local like Italy!

    Are you telling me that a continent wide empire, with exposure to all major eurasian cultures, lasting 100's of years as an agricultural powerhouse would only come up with fish head soup?

    Replies: @anonymous coward

    Thanks, I lived in Europe for years and I’m aware of European cuckoldry. We’re discussing American cuckoldry here, though.

    Russians would die of shame if they had a ‘cuisine’ like some faggot ethnically dead people.

    Of course the latter wouldn’t explain the absolute absence of regional dishes, regional, not local like Italy!

    In reality, of course, the vast majority of Russian food is sourced locally. (All Russians are ‘locavores’.) This is in stark contrast with America or even Europe.

    (So of course e.g., food in Vladivostok is vastly different that food in Voronezh.)

  58. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    I haven't studied the issue in depth - though there are a couple of prominent celebrity chefs in Russia, Maxim Syrnikov and Vlad Piskunov come to mind, who specialize in recreating pre-revolutionary cuisine.

    I briefly mentioned the former in my travelogue on Veliky Novgorod: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/novgorod-2018/

    My Twitter thread on Russia's steak culture: https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1171771252488515585

    Also worth noting that such culinary destruction isn't always due to Communist leveling. For instance, the British had a surprisingly rich culinary tradition in the 19th century. But for whatever reason (many that one can name), they didn't manage to preserve it - unlike, say, the French.


    ***

    PS. Also the usual disclaimer - whenever anonymous coward claims something, assume the opposite is true.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Mary Marianne

    PS. Also the usual disclaimer – whenever anonymous coward claims something, assume the opposite is true.

    You’re not even Russian, so why do you act like you can comment pertinently?

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5bc240574414ed00aa22340c/glubinnyi-narod-poshel-v-narod-5c6fdea14f807500aeb456f2

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE_%D0%9F%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_(%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0)

    I am channeling the voice of the Russian people. Doing the monkey routine, shutting your ears and shouting “you’re wrong you’re wrong you’re wrong” is pointless.

    Better get used to it, because what I’m saying now is what will be the main driver of the 21st century. Shift your assemblage point or you’ll be left in the dustbin of history with the rest of the NPC cuckolds.

    • Troll: Anatoly Karlin
  59. The post about Jon Hellevig contains links to his blogs. The first one is about massive investments in Sochi. The author hoped that increased tourism (5 million visitors expected) will repay these costs. How did it pan out so far?

  60. I find it interesting how the sorts who were the most vocal enforcers of the lock down (largely middle class leftists) are the first to abandon it when the next “noble” cause comes along. Just goes to confirm what an absolute joke it all was, businesses and economies destroyed for nothing.

    People still complying with the lock down must increasingly feel that they are being made fools of now.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @Europe Europa

    Fanaticism is a hell of a drug.

    , @another anon
    @Europe Europa


    I find it interesting how the sorts who were the most vocal enforcers of the lock down (largely middle class leftists) are the first to abandon it when the next “noble” cause comes along. Just goes to confirm what an absolute joke it all was, businesses and economies destroyed for nothing.
     
    If I can destroy your "economy" only by staying in my room, it was nothing than complete sham from the beginning.
    Good riddance.

    People still complying with the lock down must increasingly feel that they are being made fools of now.
     
    Do you know that many people are locking down themselves for all their lives, long before normies started pushing social isolation as something hip and trendy.
    Away from virus, away from protests and riots, away from normies.
    These people do not feel that normies like you are fools.
    They know it with absolute certainty.
    And these people have the last laugh.

    https://i.imgur.com/VjNsbH9.jpg
  61. AP says:
    @Swedish Family
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    Is there any more information on this?
    I always wondered why Russian cuisine seemed much more empty compared to literally everywhere else. A destruction of culinary traditions is one of the subtlest but most insidious parts of an ethnocide.
     
    You are wrong, but it's true that Russian cooking took a nosedive when the revolution came. Anya von Bremzen touches on this in her (excellent) Mastering the Art of Soviet Cooking:

    For my tenth birthday my parents gave me Moscow and Muscovites, a book by Vladimir Giliarovsky, darling of fin-de-siècle Moscow, who covered city affairs for several local newspapers. Combining a Dickensian eye with the racy style of a tabloid journalist, plus a dash of Zola-esque naturalism, Giliarovsky offered in Moscow and Muscovites an entertaining, if exhausting, panorama of our city at the turn of the century.

    As a kid, I cut straight to the porn—the dining-out parts.

    During the twentieth century’s opening decade, Moscow’s restaurant scene approached a kind of Slavophilic ideal. Unlike the then-capital St. Petersburg—regarded as pompous, bureaucratic, and quintessentially foreign—Moscow worked hard to live up to its moniker “bread-and-salty” (hospitable)—a merchant city at heart, uncorrupted by the phony veneer of European manners and foods. In St. Petersburg you dressed up to nibble tiny portions of foie gras and oysters at a French restaurant. In Moscow you gorged, unabashedly, obliviously, orgiastically at a traktir, a vernacular Russian tavern. Originally of working-class origins, Moscow’s best traktirs in Giliarovsky’s days welcomed everyone: posh nobles and meek provincial landowners, loud-voiced actors from Moscow Art Theater, and merchants clinching the million-ruble deals that fueled this whole Slavophilic restaurant boom. You’d never see such a social cocktail in cold, classist St. Petersburg.

    Stomach growling, I stayed up nights devouring Giliarovsky. From him I learned that the airiest blini were served at Egorov’s traktir, baked in a special stove that stood in the middle of the dining room. That at Lopashov traktir, run by a bearded, gruff Old Believer, the city’s plumpest pelmeni—dumplings filled with meat, fish, or fruit in a bubbly rosé champagne sauce—were lapped up with folkloric wooden spoons by Siberian gold-mining merchants. That grand dukes from St. Petersburg endured the four-hundred-mile train journey southeast just to eat at Testov, Moscow’s most celebrated traktir. Testov was famed for its suckling pigs that the owner reared at his dacha (“like his own children,” except for the restraints around their trotters to prevent them from resisting being force-fed for plumpness); its three-hundred-pound sturgeons and sterlets transported live from the Volga; and Guriev kasha, a fanciful baked semolina sweet layered with candied nuts and slightly burnt cream skins, served in individual skillets.

    And kulebiaka. The most obscenely decadent kulebiaka in town.

    Offered under the special name of Baidakov’s Pie (nobody really knew who this Baidakov was) and ordered days in advance, Testov’s golden-cased tour de force was the creation of its 350-pound chef named Lyonechka. Among other things, Lyonechka was notorious for his habit of drinking shchi (cabbage soup) mixed with frozen champagne as a hangover remedy. His kulebiaka was a twelve-tiered skyscraper, starting with the ground floor of burbot liver and topped with layers of fish, meat, game, mushrooms, and rice, all wrapped in dough, up, up, up to a penthouse of calf’s brains in brown butter.

    ***

    And then it all came crashing down.

    In just a bony fistful of years, classical Russian food culture vanished, almost without a trace. The country’s nationalistic euphoria on entering World War I in 1914 collapsed under nonstop disasters presided over by the “last of the Romanovs”: clueless, autocratic czar Nicholas II and Alexandra, his reactionary, hysterical German-born wife. Imperial Russia went lurching toward breakdown and starvation. Golden pies, suckling pigs? In 1917 the insurgent Bolsheviks’ banners demanded simply the most basic of staples—khleb (bread)—along with land (beleaguered peasants were 80 percent of Russia’s population) and an end to the ruinous war. On the evening of October 25, hours before the coup by Lenin and his tiny cadre, ministers of Kerensky’s foundering provisional government, which replaced the czar after the popular revolution of February 1917, dined finely at the Winter Palace: soup, artichokes, and fish. A doomed meal all around.

    With rationing already in force, the Bolsheviks quickly introduced a harsher system of class-based food allotments. Heavy manual laborers became the new privileged; Testov’s fancy diners plunged down the totem pole. Grigory Zinoviev, the head of local government in Petrograd (ex–St. Petersburg), announced rations for the bourgeoisie thusly: “We shall give them one ounce a day so they won’t forget the smell of bread.” He added with relish: “But if we must go over to milled straw, then we shall put the bourgeoisie on it first of all.”

    The country, engulfed now by civil war, was rushed toward a full-blown, and catastrophic, centralized communist model. War Communism (it was given that temporary-sounding tag after the fact) ran from mid-1918 through early 1921, when Lenin abandoned it for a more mixed economic approach. But from that time until the Soviet Union’s very end, food was to be not just a matter of chronic uncertainty but a stark tool of political and social control. To use a Russian phrase, knut i prianik: whip and gingerbread.

    There was scarce gingerbread at this point.

    Strikes in Petrograd in 1919 protested the taste (or lack thereof) of the new Soviet diet. Even revolutionary bigwigs at the city’s Smolny canteen subsisted on vile herring soup and gluey millet. At the Kremlin in Moscow, the new seat of government, the situation was so awful that the famously ascetic Lenin—Mr. Stale Bread and Weak Tea, who ate mostly at home—ordered several investigations into why the Kremlyovka (Kremlin canteen) served such inedible stuff. Here’s what the investigation found: the cooks couldn’t actually cook. Most pre-revolutionary chefs, waiters, and other food types had been fired as part of the massive reorganization of labor, and the new ones had been hired from other professions to avoid using “czarist cadres.” “Iron Felix” Dzerzhinsky, the dread founding maestro of Soviet terror, was besieged by requests from Kremlin staffers for towels for the Kremlyovka kitchens. Also aprons and jackets for cooks. Mrs. Trotsky kept asking for tea strainers. In vain.

    Part of the Kremlyovka’s troubles sprang from another of War Communism’s policies: having declared itself the sole purveyor and marketer of food, and setter of food prices, the Kremlin was not supposed to procure from private sources. And yet. The black market that immediately sprang up became—and remained—a defining and permanent fixture of Soviet life. Lenin might have railed against petty speculators called meshochniki (bagmen), the private individuals who braved Dzerzhinsky’s Cheka (secret police) roving patrols to bring back foodstuffs from the countryside, often for their own starving families. But in fact most of the calories consumed in Russia’s cities during this dire period were supplied by such illegal operators. In the winter of 1919–20, they supplied as much as 75 percent of the food consumed, maybe more. By War Communism’s end, an estimated 200,000 bagmen were riding the rails in the breadbasket of the Ukraine.

    War Communism showed an especially harsh face to the peasantry. An emphatically urban party, the Bolsheviks had little grasp of peasant realities, despite all the hammer-and-sickle imagery and early nods toward land distribution. To combat drastic grain shortages—blamed on speculative withholding—Lenin called down a “food dictatorship” and a “crusade for bread.” Armed detachments stalked the countryside, confiscating “surpluses” to feed the Red Army and the hungry, traumatically shrunken cities. This was the hated prodrazverstka (grain requisitioning)—a preview of the greater horrors to come under Stalin. There was more. To incite Marxist class warfare in villages, the poorest peasants were stirred up against their better-off kind, the so-called kulaks (“tight-fisted ones”)—vile bourgeois-like objects of Bolshevik venom. “Hang (hang without fail, so the people see) no fewer than one hundred known kulaks, rich men, bloodsuckers,” Lenin instructed provincial leaders in 1918. Though as Zinoviev later noted: “We are fond of describing any peasant who has enough to eat as a kulak.”

    And so was launched a swelling, unevenly matched war by the radicalized, industrialized cities—the minority—to bring to heel the conservative, religion-saturated, profoundly mistrustful countryside—the vast majority. Who were never truly fervent Bolshevik supporters.

    Agriculture under War Communism plummeted. By 1920, grain output was down to only 60 percent of pre–World War I levels, when Russia had been a significant exporter.

    It goes without saying that the concept of cuisine went out the window in those ferocious times. The very notion of pleasure from flavor-some food was reviled as capitalist degeneracy. Mayakovsky, brazen poet of the revolution, sicced his jeering muses on gourmet fancies:

    Eat your pineapples, gobble your grouse

    Your last day is coming, you bourgeois louse!

    Food was fuel for survival and socialist labor. Food was a weapon of class struggle. Anything that smacked of Testov’s brand of lipsmacking—kulebiaka would be a buttery bull’s-eye—constituted a reactionary attack on the world being born. Some czarist traktirs and restaurants were shuttered and looted; others were nationalized and turned into public canteens with the utopian goal of serving new kinds of foods, supposedly futuristic and rational, to the newly Soviet masses.

    Not until two decades later, following the abolition of yet another wave of rationing policies, did the state support efforts to seek out old professional chefs and revive some traditional recipes, at least in print. It was part of a whole new Soviet Cuisine project courtesy of Stalin’s food-supply commissariat. A few czarist dishes came peeping back, tricked out in Soviet duds, right then and later.

    But the bona fide, layered fish kulebiaka, darling of yore, resurfaced only in Putin’s Moscow, at resurrect-the-Romanovs restaurants, ordered up by oligarch types clinching oil deals.
     

    Replies: @AP

    What a great post.

    In terms of Soviet cuisine, there were some bright spots. My wife has youthful memories of Georgian food in some resorts on the Georgian coast, Prague bakery on Arbat, and that the central committee’s dacha provided some incredible meals. So by the 80s, in selected places, one could find fancy things to eat.

    I had some very good “high Soviet” cuisine at the house of writers in Moscow in 2018.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AP


    I had some very good “high Soviet” cuisine at the house of writers in Moscow in 2018
     
    Here is their website. If anyone is in Moscow, I recommend it:

    https://restcdl.ru/en

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    , @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive
    @AP

    Georgian cuisine is overrated because it was the only exotic cuisine boomers stashing rotting potatoes in their basement could have.
    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it's the apex of culinary genius.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @AP, @Blinky Bill

  62. @Europe Europa
    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing. There is an article on Breitbart about some black woman at a BLM protest in London saying that blacks shouldn't race mix with white people, and all the Breitbart posters were saying how terrible and racist it is, as if they think race mixing is a good thing.

    Whites proportionally seem to be the most pro-miscegenation, as in the least concerned about racial purity.

    Replies: @Jatt Arya, @Jaakko Raipala, @Not Only Wrathful, @Toronto Russian

    Most of the people on the right nowadays are not looking to complete/transform/transcend themselves through some blood and fire political movement. They are happy in their own body, or they have found their substitute meaning elsewhere – they mostly prefer to just grill.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
    @Not Only Wrathful


    they mostly prefer to just grill.
     
    The Saxon is busy.
  63. @Europe Europa
    I find it interesting how the sorts who were the most vocal enforcers of the lock down (largely middle class leftists) are the first to abandon it when the next "noble" cause comes along. Just goes to confirm what an absolute joke it all was, businesses and economies destroyed for nothing.

    People still complying with the lock down must increasingly feel that they are being made fools of now.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @another anon

    Fanaticism is a hell of a drug.

  64. @AP
    @Swedish Family

    What a great post.

    In terms of Soviet cuisine, there were some bright spots. My wife has youthful memories of Georgian food in some resorts on the Georgian coast, Prague bakery on Arbat, and that the central committee’s dacha provided some incredible meals. So by the 80s, in selected places, one could find fancy things to eat.

    I had some very good “high Soviet” cuisine at the house of writers in Moscow in 2018.

    Replies: @AP, @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    I had some very good “high Soviet” cuisine at the house of writers in Moscow in 2018

    Here is their website. If anyone is in Moscow, I recommend it:

    https://restcdl.ru/en

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @AP

    The restaurant at the House of Writers gets a florid description in The Master and Margarita.

  65. @Mr. Hack
    @another anon

    So with which one of these charismatic poster boys do you see yourself most closely aligned?

    It must be hard to be so politically active after working a 12 hour shift (at least you're happy)? :-)

    Replies: @another anon

    So with which one of these charismatic poster boys do you see yourself most closely aligned?

    Well, our host Anatoly stands at the quadripoint between monarchist, priest, putinist and neo-nazi.
    Who are we to question his wisdom?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @another anon

    Under his tutelage, I've been considering converting over to Triunism. I just don't know how to break the news to AP, who has me squarely pegged in his own Habsburgian camp? :-) Maybe you belong to a third way that could help me out of this dilemma?

    , @Ano4
    @another anon


    stands at the quadripoint between monarchist, priest, putinist and neo-nazi
     
    And then there is the transhumanist angle.

    So basically a far right theocratic transhumanist Tsardom with Putin replacing Lenin in the Mausoleum?

    A mix of Sarokin's "Day of the Oprichnik " and "Telluria" makes for interesting times.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Oprichnik

    https://theuntranslated.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/telluria-%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F-by-vladimir-sorokin/

    Will be quite interesting to observe from afar.

    (I am not being serious here...)

    🙂
  66. @Europe Europa
    I find it interesting how the sorts who were the most vocal enforcers of the lock down (largely middle class leftists) are the first to abandon it when the next "noble" cause comes along. Just goes to confirm what an absolute joke it all was, businesses and economies destroyed for nothing.

    People still complying with the lock down must increasingly feel that they are being made fools of now.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @another anon

    I find it interesting how the sorts who were the most vocal enforcers of the lock down (largely middle class leftists) are the first to abandon it when the next “noble” cause comes along. Just goes to confirm what an absolute joke it all was, businesses and economies destroyed for nothing.

    If I can destroy your “economy” only by staying in my room, it was nothing than complete sham from the beginning.
    Good riddance.

    People still complying with the lock down must increasingly feel that they are being made fools of now.

    Do you know that many people are locking down themselves for all their lives, long before normies started pushing social isolation as something hip and trendy.
    Away from virus, away from protests and riots, away from normies.
    These people do not feel that normies like you are fools.
    They know it with absolute certainty.
    And these people have the last laugh.

  67. It looks like someone has been reading Ron’s American Pravda classic:

    • Replies: @Ad70titusrevenge
    @Nodwink

    It’s another Shoah. I’m calling the ADL. Lol lol lol

  68. @anonymous coward
    @Jatt Arya

    Protestants aren't Christian.

    (Christianity is what they're "protesting" about in the first place.)

    Replies: @Europe Europa, @nickels

    I tended to agree.
    Until I realized Catholics and Orthodox aren’t Christian either.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
    @nickels


    Until I realized Catholics and Orthodox aren’t Christian either.
     
    Protestants too? And they all disagree vehemently about what constitutes Christianty. If any one of them is right, all the others are wrong. Perhaps they are all wrong. Which means their eternity insurance policy might be fraudulent. Oops.

    Apparently the need to worship is a natural characteristic of most of humanity. Or perhaps it's just fear of things that go bump in the night, with charlatans taking advantage of the gullible. Fear IS a natural charactistic. According to Abraham, you can fool some of the people all of the time. Perhaps the word "some" should have been "most".

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @anonymous coward, @another anon

  69. A123 says:

    The Lockdown is definitely dying (1):

    A North Carolina speedway drew a crowd of more than 2,000 spectators in defiance of the state’s coronavirus restrictions after declaring the race a “protest.”

    The governor’s office had warned Ace Speedway in Elon earlier this week that a crowd of more than 25 would violate the state’s Phase 2 coronavirus restrictions.

    But news outletsreport that more than 2,000 attended a race Saturday night. A sign from management outside the speedway said, “This Event is held in Peaceful Protest of Injustice and Inequality Everywhere.”

    Football season will break its back. 100,000+ attend Penn State protest… and look… Purely by Coincidence… there just happened to be a football game.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/7/ace-speedway-declares-race-protest-skirt-coronavir/

    • LOL: AP
  70. @ImmortalRationalist
    @Kent Nationalist

    Cities like Minneapolis committing economic suicide.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

    City of Minneapolis is committing a comprehensive suicide. Their cuck-dominated city council decided to dismantle the police and replace it with some “community safety” BS. If they do that, Minneapolis has only one way to go: the way of Detroit. Most normal people would flee gang-infested shithole Minneapolis would become. Personally, I would never even visit that favela.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonFromTN

    I wouldn't worry too much about Minneapolis losing much of its charm. It's been around for a while and always manages to evolve in the most interesting of ways. I'd rate it at the top of the list of the most beautiful city in the US, even ahead of San Diego and Portland Oregon (haven't been to Seattle yet).
    The current mess is a blip on the screen.

    https://cdn.thecrazytourist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ccimage-shutterstock_477519.jpg

    Replies: @AP

    , @ImmortalRationalist
    @AnonFromTN

    Swedish Americans may be just as bad as Swedes in Sweden.

    Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @DC Nate

    , @Thorfinnsson
    @AnonFromTN

    Remains to be seen. Are they really going to get rid of the police, or will they simply rebrand the police? Or perhaps they'll announce a grand plan to get rid of the police, only to quietly shelve the plan next year.

    It should also be pointed out that Minneapolis is only one-fifth black. If the city really does eliminate the police, negro pandemonium may well be contained by hmong and hispanic gangs.

    Of course, obviously the fact that abolishing the police is considered a serious proposal in contemporary America is an exceedingly negative indicator for this country's future.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @AnonFromTN

  71. @another anon
    In related news, the world finally recognizes Vladimir Lenin as great revolutionary of color.
    Another defeat of white supremacy!

    I hope Putin will offer to bury comrade Floyd in the Mausoleum, there is still free place left since Stalin was booted out.
    This way, Russia can gain eternal gratitude of all people of color all over the world.

    https://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1269026211617034242

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

    I hope Putin will offer to bury comrade Floyd in the Mausoleum, there is still free place left since Stalin was booted out.

    Although there is a criminal lying there (used to be two), these were a different caliber of criminals. Russians won’t place a drug-addicted petty career criminal in a Mausoleum. People like that are kept in jail in the RF, which is their proper place.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AnonFromTN

    They are in jail even more in America. Actually to an extent, that a significant part of the American population will be in prison in one part of their life.

    That's why the question whether the current protests are right or wrong is not simple.

    Well, to summarize - the anti-racism movement has hijacked a real and legitimate anger of the American citizens. It is legitimate that American citizens should be angry against the fact that America is the world's leading police-state (to qualify - America is the world's worst police-state, at least in relation to minor crime and among developed countries).

    Why are legitimate protests against police, quickly overlaid with an anti-racism interpretation? One reason (not necessarily the only), is because anti-racism interpretation is more mono-partisan, than the police-state interpretation - the police-state of America is responsibility of, and supported by both parties, and so irrelevant for electoral politics. This is 2020 - presidential election year in America.
    https://i.imgur.com/9fMsasG.png

    Replies: @AP

  72. @AP
    @AP


    I had some very good “high Soviet” cuisine at the house of writers in Moscow in 2018
     
    Here is their website. If anyone is in Moscow, I recommend it:

    https://restcdl.ru/en

    Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    The restaurant at the House of Writers gets a florid description in The Master and Margarita.

    • Agree: AP
  73. @Jatt Arya
    @Tor597

    Understatement.

    Given more than 80% of births over the next 80 years are predicted to be African, nigger lovers are a Grade A biological threat to Humans (Africans are separate species).

    I would rather Delhi be nuked & salted (on a good day) than have 1 nigger in it||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

    Replies: @neutral

    I am fairly certain that niggers are already in Dehli.

  74. Excess mortality in Saint-Petersburg in May (similar story as Moscow in April).
    https://www.interfax.ru/russia/711711

  75. One of the main articles in Fontanka (this is a very politically liberal website in Saint-Petersburg) has about the death Karlin’s friend from Finland. Sympathy to Karlin for his loss of his friend btw.

    They report he claimed that he was going to be killed by the government. Which is the reason Fontanka is posting about his death, but it is self-contradicting (as well of course implausible, for other reasons, not least as he does not seem famous), as his blog posts Karlin links in the obituary read as some kind of “pro-government PR”.
    https://www.fontanka.ru/2020/06/05/69300784/

  76. @Not Only Wrathful
    @Europe Europa

    Most of the people on the right nowadays are not looking to complete/transform/transcend themselves through some blood and fire political movement. They are happy in their own body, or they have found their substitute meaning elsewhere - they mostly prefer to just grill.

    Replies: @HallParvey

    they mostly prefer to just grill.

    The Saxon is busy.

  77. @SafeNow
    “Fact is, it IS their culture.”

    Yes, but only partly is culture the cause. Perhaps 30% or so, would say the denounced Bouchard Minnesota twin studies, later confirmed by the denounced larger Swedish study; these looked at twins separated at birth. I don’t mean to trigger 1,000 comments, and produce the winner of the “most popular essay prize” in the next Unz weekly digest, but this needed to be said.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

    I can’t say much about those studies. I did not conduct my own (not my field). However, I personally encountered several perfectly normal hard-working bright and successful blacks. They were all from Africa. So, presumably they had the same genes, but their attitude was different. They worked, like the rest of us, and did not expect any freebies. Hence the success.

    The same goes for prejudice (which looters call “racism” and “white privilege”). I am sure these African blacks encountered whatever anti-black prejudice there is, as they look as black (often blacker) than American blacks. Yet that did not prevent their success, even if it made it harder to achieve. My conclusion: woeful underachievement of local blacks cannot be explained by anything except their own attitude. There are very few fields for which militant ignorant morons are fit, mostly sports and criminality. That’s exactly where those “oppressed” end up.

  78. @another anon
    @Mr. Hack


    So with which one of these charismatic poster boys do you see yourself most closely aligned?
     
    Well, our host Anatoly stands at the quadripoint between monarchist, priest, putinist and neo-nazi.
    Who are we to question his wisdom?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Ano4

    Under his tutelage, I’ve been considering converting over to Triunism. I just don’t know how to break the news to AP, who has me squarely pegged in his own Habsburgian camp? 🙂 Maybe you belong to a third way that could help me out of this dilemma?

  79. @AnonFromTN
    @another anon


    I hope Putin will offer to bury comrade Floyd in the Mausoleum, there is still free place left since Stalin was booted out.
     
    Although there is a criminal lying there (used to be two), these were a different caliber of criminals. Russians won’t place a drug-addicted petty career criminal in a Mausoleum. People like that are kept in jail in the RF, which is their proper place.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    They are in jail even more in America. Actually to an extent, that a significant part of the American population will be in prison in one part of their life.

    That’s why the question whether the current protests are right or wrong is not simple.

    Well, to summarize – the anti-racism movement has hijacked a real and legitimate anger of the American citizens. It is legitimate that American citizens should be angry against the fact that America is the world’s leading police-state (to qualify – America is the world’s worst police-state, at least in relation to minor crime and among developed countries).

    Why are legitimate protests against police, quickly overlaid with an anti-racism interpretation? One reason (not necessarily the only), is because anti-racism interpretation is more mono-partisan, than the police-state interpretation – the police-state of America is responsibility of, and supported by both parties, and so irrelevant for electoral politics. This is 2020 – presidential election year in America.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry

    Given its population, America may be under-policed and under-incarcerated.

    Replies: @utu

  80. @nickels
    @anonymous coward

    I tended to agree.
    Until I realized Catholics and Orthodox aren’t Christian either.

    Replies: @HallParvey

    Until I realized Catholics and Orthodox aren’t Christian either.

    Protestants too? And they all disagree vehemently about what constitutes Christianty. If any one of them is right, all the others are wrong. Perhaps they are all wrong. Which means their eternity insurance policy might be fraudulent. Oops.

    Apparently the need to worship is a natural characteristic of most of humanity. Or perhaps it’s just fear of things that go bump in the night, with charlatans taking advantage of the gullible. Fear IS a natural charactistic. According to Abraham, you can fool some of the people all of the time. Perhaps the word “some” should have been “most”.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @HallParvey

    It isn't just fear, though. It also has a positive feeling associated with it; this sense of euphoria is what I think many seek.

    Replies: @nickels

    , @anonymous coward
    @HallParvey

    Wow, good thing you're not at all gullible, not at all, no way, and here spending your precious time teaching us about charlatans!

    Replies: @HallParvey

    , @another anon
    @HallParvey


    Protestants too? And they all disagree vehemently about what constitutes Christianty. If any one of them is right, all the others are wrong. Perhaps they are all wrong. Which means their eternity insurance policy might be fraudulent. Oops.
     
    The only true Christians are Jehova's Witnesses.

    Poor and humble
    Peaceful and nonviolent
    Preaching the Gospel and proselytizing everywhere
    Not interested in politics
    Never bowing to any satanic idols, including national flags and anthems
    Awaiting end of the world every day
    Always ready to die for their faith

    The closest thing to first century apostolic Christianity you are going to find on this Earth.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/37/63/863763406f7ccef06ac4cf202ebf72e5.jpg

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist, @anonymous coward

  81. @HallParvey
    @nickels


    Until I realized Catholics and Orthodox aren’t Christian either.
     
    Protestants too? And they all disagree vehemently about what constitutes Christianty. If any one of them is right, all the others are wrong. Perhaps they are all wrong. Which means their eternity insurance policy might be fraudulent. Oops.

    Apparently the need to worship is a natural characteristic of most of humanity. Or perhaps it's just fear of things that go bump in the night, with charlatans taking advantage of the gullible. Fear IS a natural charactistic. According to Abraham, you can fool some of the people all of the time. Perhaps the word "some" should have been "most".

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @anonymous coward, @another anon

    It isn’t just fear, though. It also has a positive feeling associated with it; this sense of euphoria is what I think many seek.

    • Replies: @nickels
    @Daniel Chieh

    No-psychologisizing Christianity is a cheap shot.
    Christianity is a necessity for a coherent metaphysical understanding of the universe. It is undoubtedly true.
    But the notion that any one denomination holds the flame of truth is a proposition that has been torn to shreds, partially by the severe cuckery displayed in the CV hoax.

  82. Russian rejection of fine food kept the country free in 1812:

    Sergeant: Imagine your loved ones conquered by Napoleon and forced to live under French rule. Do you want them to eat that rich food and those heavy sauces?

    Russian Soldiers: No…!

    Sergeant: Do you want them to have soufflé every meal and croissant?

    Love and Death (1975)

    Simple fare is patriotic duty.

  83. @Dmitry
    @AnonFromTN

    They are in jail even more in America. Actually to an extent, that a significant part of the American population will be in prison in one part of their life.

    That's why the question whether the current protests are right or wrong is not simple.

    Well, to summarize - the anti-racism movement has hijacked a real and legitimate anger of the American citizens. It is legitimate that American citizens should be angry against the fact that America is the world's leading police-state (to qualify - America is the world's worst police-state, at least in relation to minor crime and among developed countries).

    Why are legitimate protests against police, quickly overlaid with an anti-racism interpretation? One reason (not necessarily the only), is because anti-racism interpretation is more mono-partisan, than the police-state interpretation - the police-state of America is responsibility of, and supported by both parties, and so irrelevant for electoral politics. This is 2020 - presidential election year in America.
    https://i.imgur.com/9fMsasG.png

    Replies: @AP

    Given its population, America may be under-policed and under-incarcerated.

    • Replies: @utu
    @AP

    What do you mean by "Given its population"? Too diverse or too large? About 40% of incarcerated are Blacks but even w/o the Blacks the US still would have the largest incarceration rate in the first world. American society is both more violent and more punitive than European countries.

    Replies: @AP

  84. @AnonFromTN
    @ImmortalRationalist

    City of Minneapolis is committing a comprehensive suicide. Their cuck-dominated city council decided to dismantle the police and replace it with some “community safety” BS. If they do that, Minneapolis has only one way to go: the way of Detroit. Most normal people would flee gang-infested shithole Minneapolis would become. Personally, I would never even visit that favela.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @ImmortalRationalist, @Thorfinnsson

    I wouldn’t worry too much about Minneapolis losing much of its charm. It’s been around for a while and always manages to evolve in the most interesting of ways. I’d rate it at the top of the list of the most beautiful city in the US, even ahead of San Diego and Portland Oregon (haven’t been to Seattle yet).
    The current mess is a blip on the screen.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    Have the looters only transformed their own neighborhoods into a New Mogadishu or has this spread to others parts of the city?

    Bye the way, the progressives have apparently utterly destroyed Minneapolis schools:

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/no-thug-left-behind-14951.html

    Article is worth reading. If a similar approach will be taken towards crime, the city may be lost.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  85. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @AnonFromTN

    I wouldn't worry too much about Minneapolis losing much of its charm. It's been around for a while and always manages to evolve in the most interesting of ways. I'd rate it at the top of the list of the most beautiful city in the US, even ahead of San Diego and Portland Oregon (haven't been to Seattle yet).
    The current mess is a blip on the screen.

    https://cdn.thecrazytourist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ccimage-shutterstock_477519.jpg

    Replies: @AP

    Have the looters only transformed their own neighborhoods into a New Mogadishu or has this spread to others parts of the city?

    Bye the way, the progressives have apparently utterly destroyed Minneapolis schools:

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/no-thug-left-behind-14951.html

    Article is worth reading. If a similar approach will be taken towards crime, the city may be lost.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Criminal activity, including violent action towards teachers is indeed a great problem not only in Minnesota, but throughout the US. My sister, a retired school teacher who taught in the Minneapolis school system for over 40 years used to share some awful experiences that she went through, for instance acquiring a punctured lung while trying to break up a fight between two students. Her daughter got out of the profession after two years and just couldn't take all of the stress (she was quite attractive and would experience disrespectful sexist jeering). In Arizona, where I live now, it's the same story. A young lady at the Church that I attend graduated as a math school teacher and has quit too, not being able to handle the stress. Young teachers are jumping out of the profession in droves seeking jobs in other fields.

    As long as the private school system and charter schools are allowed to exist, able minded students will be able to receive a superior education. If the Libtards ever succeed in dismantling this viable option, then we'll see some real digression in our community standards.

    As far as I know, the local damage is centered in the poorer neighborhoods. Elderly people in the neighborhood are seen on the Tube complaining that they now have nowhere to go shopping for food. Well, at least the young guy down the block has acquired a new flat screen TV.

  86. @HallParvey
    @nickels


    Until I realized Catholics and Orthodox aren’t Christian either.
     
    Protestants too? And they all disagree vehemently about what constitutes Christianty. If any one of them is right, all the others are wrong. Perhaps they are all wrong. Which means their eternity insurance policy might be fraudulent. Oops.

    Apparently the need to worship is a natural characteristic of most of humanity. Or perhaps it's just fear of things that go bump in the night, with charlatans taking advantage of the gullible. Fear IS a natural charactistic. According to Abraham, you can fool some of the people all of the time. Perhaps the word "some" should have been "most".

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @anonymous coward, @another anon

    Wow, good thing you’re not at all gullible, not at all, no way, and here spending your precious time teaching us about charlatans!

    • Replies: @HallParvey
    @anonymous coward

    You are, indeed, blessed.

  87. @HallParvey
    @nickels


    Until I realized Catholics and Orthodox aren’t Christian either.
     
    Protestants too? And they all disagree vehemently about what constitutes Christianty. If any one of them is right, all the others are wrong. Perhaps they are all wrong. Which means their eternity insurance policy might be fraudulent. Oops.

    Apparently the need to worship is a natural characteristic of most of humanity. Or perhaps it's just fear of things that go bump in the night, with charlatans taking advantage of the gullible. Fear IS a natural charactistic. According to Abraham, you can fool some of the people all of the time. Perhaps the word "some" should have been "most".

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @anonymous coward, @another anon

    Protestants too? And they all disagree vehemently about what constitutes Christianty. If any one of them is right, all the others are wrong. Perhaps they are all wrong. Which means their eternity insurance policy might be fraudulent. Oops.

    The only true Christians are Jehova’s Witnesses.

    Poor and humble
    Peaceful and nonviolent
    Preaching the Gospel and proselytizing everywhere
    Not interested in politics
    Never bowing to any satanic idols, including national flags and anthems
    Awaiting end of the world every day
    Always ready to die for their faith

    The closest thing to first century apostolic Christianity you are going to find on this Earth.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    @another anon

    They're not Christians and their 'translation' of the Bible is filled with lies

    , @anonymous coward
    @another anon

    Being Christian isn't about good behavior. You're either a member of a Church founded by Christ, or you're not. End of story; that's what the word 'Christian' means. You trying to assign moral qualifications to it is just squid ink.

  88. @AP
    @Dmitry

    Given its population, America may be under-policed and under-incarcerated.

    Replies: @utu

    What do you mean by “Given its population”? Too diverse or too large? About 40% of incarcerated are Blacks but even w/o the Blacks the US still would have the largest incarceration rate in the first world. American society is both more violent and more punitive than European countries.

    • Replies: @AP
    @utu

    It’s a combination of off-the-scale by European standards average black propensity towards violence, and New World Europeans who are far less violent than blacks on average but are still very violent by European standards. Perhaps it is a legacy of frontier culture itself, plus the fact that the frontier attracted people who were more prone towards adventurousness and violence. For example the homicide rates of Argentina and Uruguay (5.3 and 12, respectively), settled mostly by Spaniards and Italians, are much higher than in Spain and Italy (.57 and .62, respectively).
    Uruguay has more of a cowboy culture than does Argentina.

    And then, course, you add lots of guns into the mix.

    Without America’s intense policing and incarceration, I suspect the homicide rate there would a lot higher than 4.96.

    Replies: @Passer by, @Znzn, @Dmitry

  89. @AP
    @Chet Bradley


    Is this a new position for КПРФ
     
    I was at a birthday party with one of Zyuganov's close relatives 20 years ago. Even back then his daughter was kind of an (Orthodox) religious fanatic; she may have been a positive influence on her father.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Chet Bradley

    Thanks!

  90. There’s an idea out there that the Republican strategy should be to put in people’s minds the idea that the Democrats are the black party, which will cause many to flee to the Republicans. I think with Hispanics this strategy could work. Right now, Trump seems to be cucking because he’s afraid of losing votes from Blacks. I wonder if a law and order campaign could actually increase Hispanic voter turnout. Hispanics actually have many similarities with prole Whites, and there are plenty of videos out there showing conflict between Hispanics and Blacks over the rioting. A better leader could use this to his advantage.

    I’m not sure this strategy would help with other minority groups though.

    Unrelated to above, I’m trying to imagine what would happen if some rioters started destroying Holocaust museums. That would be most amusing.

  91. Ano4 says:
    @another anon
    @Mr. Hack


    So with which one of these charismatic poster boys do you see yourself most closely aligned?
     
    Well, our host Anatoly stands at the quadripoint between monarchist, priest, putinist and neo-nazi.
    Who are we to question his wisdom?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Ano4

    stands at the quadripoint between monarchist, priest, putinist and neo-nazi

    And then there is the transhumanist angle.

    So basically a far right theocratic transhumanist Tsardom with Putin replacing Lenin in the Mausoleum?

    A mix of Sarokin’s “Day of the Oprichnik ” and “Telluria” makes for interesting times.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Oprichnik

    https://theuntranslated.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/telluria-%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F-by-vladimir-sorokin/

    Will be quite interesting to observe from afar.

    (I am not being serious here…)

    🙂

  92. @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    Have the looters only transformed their own neighborhoods into a New Mogadishu or has this spread to others parts of the city?

    Bye the way, the progressives have apparently utterly destroyed Minneapolis schools:

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/no-thug-left-behind-14951.html

    Article is worth reading. If a similar approach will be taken towards crime, the city may be lost.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Criminal activity, including violent action towards teachers is indeed a great problem not only in Minnesota, but throughout the US. My sister, a retired school teacher who taught in the Minneapolis school system for over 40 years used to share some awful experiences that she went through, for instance acquiring a punctured lung while trying to break up a fight between two students. Her daughter got out of the profession after two years and just couldn’t take all of the stress (she was quite attractive and would experience disrespectful sexist jeering). In Arizona, where I live now, it’s the same story. A young lady at the Church that I attend graduated as a math school teacher and has quit too, not being able to handle the stress. Young teachers are jumping out of the profession in droves seeking jobs in other fields.

    As long as the private school system and charter schools are allowed to exist, able minded students will be able to receive a superior education. If the Libtards ever succeed in dismantling this viable option, then we’ll see some real digression in our community standards.

    As far as I know, the local damage is centered in the poorer neighborhoods. Elderly people in the neighborhood are seen on the Tube complaining that they now have nowhere to go shopping for food. Well, at least the young guy down the block has acquired a new flat screen TV.

  93. @AnonFromTN
    @ImmortalRationalist

    City of Minneapolis is committing a comprehensive suicide. Their cuck-dominated city council decided to dismantle the police and replace it with some “community safety” BS. If they do that, Minneapolis has only one way to go: the way of Detroit. Most normal people would flee gang-infested shithole Minneapolis would become. Personally, I would never even visit that favela.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @ImmortalRationalist, @Thorfinnsson

    Swedish Americans may be just as bad as Swedes in Sweden.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    @ImmortalRationalist

    Swedish-Americans are less than one-tenth of the population of Minneapolis. All Scandinavians together about one-fifth.

    Among current Minneapolis City Council members there isn't a single Scandinavian surname, unless you count a fellow named Johnson (more likely English).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @DC Nate
    @ImmortalRationalist

    Gunnar: "In my country, Sweden, we have no sanity."
    Milton: "That's interesting! In my country, we have no sanity among Swedes, either."

  94. AP says:
    @utu
    @AP

    What do you mean by "Given its population"? Too diverse or too large? About 40% of incarcerated are Blacks but even w/o the Blacks the US still would have the largest incarceration rate in the first world. American society is both more violent and more punitive than European countries.

    Replies: @AP

    It’s a combination of off-the-scale by European standards average black propensity towards violence, and New World Europeans who are far less violent than blacks on average but are still very violent by European standards. Perhaps it is a legacy of frontier culture itself, plus the fact that the frontier attracted people who were more prone towards adventurousness and violence. For example the homicide rates of Argentina and Uruguay (5.3 and 12, respectively), settled mostly by Spaniards and Italians, are much higher than in Spain and Italy (.57 and .62, respectively).
    Uruguay has more of a cowboy culture than does Argentina.

    And then, course, you add lots of guns into the mix.

    Without America’s intense policing and incarceration, I suspect the homicide rate there would a lot higher than 4.96.

    • Replies: @Passer by
    @AP

    Argentina is between 30 % and 40 % non-european.

    , @Znzn
    @AP

    Not only whites? Asian Americans are also a lot more violent and homicidal, than Asians are in Asia, and the vast majority of Asian Americans arrived when the US had already no frontier for almost a hundred years. The difference between the Asian American and White American homicide rate, may be explained by the opoid and meth epidemic and Hispanic murderers being classified as White, like how George Zimmerman was called white even if he was visibly a minority.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Dmitry
    @AP


    Without America’s intense policing and incarceration, I s
     
    It can also contribute to the violence.

    I cannot speak about America, but the people I am scared of if I am in a slightly more "dangerous" part of the city, is sometimes groups who are speaking to each other with some strange slangs which are learned in prison. It's not just that the prison is selecting violent people, but that it is also contributing to their brutalization.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  95. @AP
    @utu

    It’s a combination of off-the-scale by European standards average black propensity towards violence, and New World Europeans who are far less violent than blacks on average but are still very violent by European standards. Perhaps it is a legacy of frontier culture itself, plus the fact that the frontier attracted people who were more prone towards adventurousness and violence. For example the homicide rates of Argentina and Uruguay (5.3 and 12, respectively), settled mostly by Spaniards and Italians, are much higher than in Spain and Italy (.57 and .62, respectively).
    Uruguay has more of a cowboy culture than does Argentina.

    And then, course, you add lots of guns into the mix.

    Without America’s intense policing and incarceration, I suspect the homicide rate there would a lot higher than 4.96.

    Replies: @Passer by, @Znzn, @Dmitry

    Argentina is between 30 % and 40 % non-european.

  96. Znzn says:
    @AP
    @utu

    It’s a combination of off-the-scale by European standards average black propensity towards violence, and New World Europeans who are far less violent than blacks on average but are still very violent by European standards. Perhaps it is a legacy of frontier culture itself, plus the fact that the frontier attracted people who were more prone towards adventurousness and violence. For example the homicide rates of Argentina and Uruguay (5.3 and 12, respectively), settled mostly by Spaniards and Italians, are much higher than in Spain and Italy (.57 and .62, respectively).
    Uruguay has more of a cowboy culture than does Argentina.

    And then, course, you add lots of guns into the mix.

    Without America’s intense policing and incarceration, I suspect the homicide rate there would a lot higher than 4.96.

    Replies: @Passer by, @Znzn, @Dmitry

    Not only whites? Asian Americans are also a lot more violent and homicidal, than Asians are in Asia, and the vast majority of Asian Americans arrived when the US had already no frontier for almost a hundred years. The difference between the Asian American and White American homicide rate, may be explained by the opoid and meth epidemic and Hispanic murderers being classified as White, like how George Zimmerman was called white even if he was visibly a minority.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Znzn

    Perhaps frontier aspects of the culture have perpetuated themselves even after the frontier has passed.* And maybe many of the Asians arriving are the kind of people who fit better than do those who choose to stay at home (I realize this is speculation and approaches a just-so-story).

    * People who came to the USA from Europe after World War II, despite not settling in frontiers, have noted the “cowboy” like qualities of their white neighbors. Not coincidentally, cowboy themes and violence in general have been staples of American mass entertainment.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Mr. Hack

  97. AP says:
    @Znzn
    @AP

    Not only whites? Asian Americans are also a lot more violent and homicidal, than Asians are in Asia, and the vast majority of Asian Americans arrived when the US had already no frontier for almost a hundred years. The difference between the Asian American and White American homicide rate, may be explained by the opoid and meth epidemic and Hispanic murderers being classified as White, like how George Zimmerman was called white even if he was visibly a minority.

    Replies: @AP

    Perhaps frontier aspects of the culture have perpetuated themselves even after the frontier has passed.* And maybe many of the Asians arriving are the kind of people who fit better than do those who choose to stay at home (I realize this is speculation and approaches a just-so-story).

    * People who came to the USA from Europe after World War II, despite not settling in frontiers, have noted the “cowboy” like qualities of their white neighbors. Not coincidentally, cowboy themes and violence in general have been staples of American mass entertainment.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @AP


    And maybe many of the Asians arriving are the kind of people who fit better than do those who choose to stay at home
     
    Gran Torino Americans


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/Vang-mug.jpg

    Chai Soua Vang (born September 24, 1968) is a naturalized Hmong American from Laos who was convicted of murder, but claimed self defense. Vang, a six-year veteran of the California National Guard, shot eight people while on a hunting trip in northern Wisconsin on November 21, 2004; six were killed and two were wounded.

    https://youtu.be/d_CaZ4EAexQ

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    , @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Back in the day, besides playing softball and touch football, especially among American white youngsters, they'd play "Cowboys and Indians" and "Army". It wasn't uncommon at all for a kid to have a holster, fake bullets and pistol too. All sorts of Western TV serials were broadcast over the Tube, that helped fuel this "Cowboy frontier" mentality that you bring up:

    https://i.pinimg.com/236x/b3/17/de/b317de2ba593e1b03422b8d3d56897e5--cowboys-and-indians-vintage-portrait.jpg

    Good or bad?

  98. @Passer by
    And now it spread to UK
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dnwN9nmTZM

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Morton's toes

    I had never heard of Edward Colston before today!

    Colston supported and endowed schools, almshouses, hospitals and churches in Bristol, London and elsewhere. Many of his charitable foundations survive to this day.[4]

    In Bristol, he founded almshouses in King Street and Colstons Almshouses on St Michael’s Hill, endowed Queen Elizabeth’s Hospital school and helped found Colston’s Hospital, a boarding school which opened in 1710 leaving an endowment to be managed by the Society of Merchant Venturers for its upkeep. He gave money to schools in Temple (one of which went on to become St Mary Redcliffe and Temple School) and other parts of Bristol, and to several churches and the cathedral. He was a strong Tory and high-churchman, and was returned as Member of Parliament (MP) for Bristol in 1710 for just one parliament.[5]

    David Hughson writing in 1808 described Colston as “the great benefactor of the city of Bristol, who, in his lifetime, expended more than 70,000L. [£] in charitable institutions”

    Somebody needs to get out in front and promote blowing up the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial. Actually they should blow up the whole city of Washington or at least rename it to Turner (Nat) or (Toussaint) L’Overture.

    I vote for Toussaint L’Overture. I enjoy saying it.

    • Replies: @FD
    @Morton's toes

    May as well go all out and rename it to Dessalines.

  99. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Chet Bradley

    Yes, I remember you - Serb-American, IIRC? Feel free to call me up if/when you do go to Moscow.

    1. I don't know the details, sorry. But personally speaking, I wouldn't bank on doing much in the way of international travel this year.

    2. The KPRF is socially conservative and willing to make some limited concessions to Russian nationalism.
    That will probably not continue as the old Marxoids and older normie commie voters die out, and the party is replaced by Westernist neo-Bolshevik SJWs.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Chet Bradley

    Спасибо, Anatoly. Yes, that’s me. Thanks for the invite, will let you know when we go to Moscow.

    For me it’s a question of when, not if, unless the world ends in the meantime. 🙂 This year seems unlikely; I can hold off finalizing the plans for about another month, but then I have to decide. If we can travel we will; if not Russia, then Serbia and a side trip to Greece.

    Related to the current situation: my wife is East Asian and we have two pre-teen kids. I have a good sense for the pulse of a society and have been telling my wife (occasionally) for about a decade that the U.S. is going down the tubes, and that it’s mostly self-inflicted. She’s been dismissive this whole time, saying “no country is perfect, this is still the best place, who else would take us?” Now she’s changed the tune. The amount of auto-destructive insanity on display has become too much.

    That doesn’t mean an immediate change of plans, but rather a change in attitude and long-term plans. We’re even starting to think about Russia as a place for kids to go to college some day. There are universities offering serious degrees taught in English, although it would serve my kids well if they learned Russian (they understand Serbian but don’t speak much). It also matters that Russia is a serious, sovereign country, which can’t be said for either Serbia or my wife’s home country.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Thanks: Blinky Bill
  100. @AP
    @Znzn

    Perhaps frontier aspects of the culture have perpetuated themselves even after the frontier has passed.* And maybe many of the Asians arriving are the kind of people who fit better than do those who choose to stay at home (I realize this is speculation and approaches a just-so-story).

    * People who came to the USA from Europe after World War II, despite not settling in frontiers, have noted the “cowboy” like qualities of their white neighbors. Not coincidentally, cowboy themes and violence in general have been staples of American mass entertainment.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Mr. Hack

    And maybe many of the Asians arriving are the kind of people who fit better than do those who choose to stay at home

    Gran Torino Americans

    Chai Soua Vang (born September 24, 1968) is a naturalized Hmong American from Laos who was convicted of murder, but claimed self defense. Vang, a six-year veteran of the California National Guard, shot eight people while on a hunting trip in northern Wisconsin on November 21, 2004; six were killed and two were wounded.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Blinky Bill


    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRa9OoZBPGfhV-2dc--Emoz-yBZtIlEXaTEnoKNOf6KqwQElg9w&usqp.jpg

  101. @Europe Europa
    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing. There is an article on Breitbart about some black woman at a BLM protest in London saying that blacks shouldn't race mix with white people, and all the Breitbart posters were saying how terrible and racist it is, as if they think race mixing is a good thing.

    Whites proportionally seem to be the most pro-miscegenation, as in the least concerned about racial purity.

    Replies: @Jatt Arya, @Jaakko Raipala, @Not Only Wrathful, @Toronto Russian

    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.

    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin’ lazy at the sea,
    There’s a Burma girl a-settin’, and I know she thinks o’ me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    “Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! ”
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven’t, it’s beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it’s written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don’t get me started on the “tundra fever” of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You’d think only “our man+foreign woman” couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.

    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Toronto Russian


    “tundra fever”
     
    Thank you. 😂😂😂😂😂
    , @Gowro
    @Toronto Russian

    >muh muh anecdotes
    https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2020/05/06/a-history-of-the-race-concept/

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Toronto Russian

    https://memestatic.fjcdn.com/pictures/Merciful+farflung+emu_acb687_7618111.jpg

    Replies: @A123, @Blinky Bill

    , @AP
    @Toronto Russian


    An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
     
    Well, Korea’s prince did marry a diaspora Ukrainian-American woman. Their wedding was in a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in New York:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Mullock

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mr. Hack

    , @Mikhail
    @Toronto Russian

    If I'm not mistaken, Cossacks and/or some other Russian settlers in northern California mixed with American Indians, with some of the kids getting educated in Russia.

    , @Inselaffen
    @Toronto Russian

    I think those kinds of princess stories are actually kind of self-serving ethnic pride boosters, like 'even this plain peasant girl from our people is considered worthy of being the highest princess by theirs'.

    & extreme ethnocentric behavior is hardly a blip in history... an ideology of racial purity may be a blip but the environment that would cause it is also a blip (widely diverse populations coming together).

    , @Thulean Friend
    @Toronto Russian


    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times.
     
    In a globalised world, with nukes increasingly common, military conquest is no longer necessary. Cultural victory combined with economic domination is more than sufficient. I've noticed a significant increase in Swedish men mixing with brown and even black women over the past 2-3 years. Swedish man/East Asian woman is so common I barely even register it anymore, it has become part of the bas relief. Anecdotally, more Swedish men are in mixed relationships that I can see than women.

    Of course, this is probably partly the Stockholm bubble. As real estate costs have risen to very elevated levels and are unlikely to come down, there is a great churning among people who would want to move here. That means more intelligent 2nd gen immigrants and a great selective pressure on 1st gen migrants as well. Intelligence is correlated with liberalism, and a greater propensity to mix.

    Additionally, the differences between the genders is much greater among non-Europeans than among Swedes in the educational outcomes. This gives a relative surplus of increasingly educated 20-something women with far fewer male potential partners from their own peer group. Given the rise of assortive mating, this means many more women are simply going to look outside their group than 'dating down'.

    I have mixed feelings about the hypothesis that big cities in the West will become islands in of themselves. I think at some point, you can't cut yourself off from the rest of society. The greater polity won't accept a Singapore-like existence for the capital cities in perpetuity. But the radically different conditions will likely go on for quite a while, given that this is where the elite lives and these conditions shape their social reality, their Weltanschaaung as it were.

    , @Dmitry
    @Toronto Russian

    However, today, it's impossible not to laugh, or view as a kind of comic fool, when a supposed "racist" person, is doing race-mix, considering that >95% of leftists and liberals have still a partner from the same race.

    In most places, you can see >95% leftists/liberals have partners from their own nationality or at least race. E.g. even in America, Vermont, the most liberal state, is the most white state.

    On the other hand, there is the designed leader of the American Alt-Right - Richard Spencer, who has a Georgian (somewhat brown) wife. His children will be less white or saxon than the average Democrat of Vermont: there is some kind of reductio ad absurdum of his political movement, by its own assumptions.

    -

    That's not to say that there is something wrong about race-mixing. Of course, from a child's perspective, the important thing is the personality and cultural compatibility of parents, not whether their parents have different skin colour.

    Even such a negative obsession about race, is also something quite recent, and mainly inherited from a few colonial societies. Even in the late 19th century Russian Empire, it was fashionable to boast about having some exotic ancestor, as a positive, rather than negative, fact.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

  102. @Toronto Russian
    @Europe Europa


    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.
     
    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! "
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven't, it's beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it's written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don't get me started on the "tundra fever" of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/650760/650760_original.jpg

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/651623/651623_original.jpg

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You'd think only "our man+foreign woman" couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1338587/1338587_original.jpg

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.
     
    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Gowro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AP, @Mikhail, @Inselaffen, @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

    “tundra fever”

    Thank you. 😂😂😂😂😂

  103. @Daniel Chieh
    @HallParvey

    It isn't just fear, though. It also has a positive feeling associated with it; this sense of euphoria is what I think many seek.

    Replies: @nickels

    No-psychologisizing Christianity is a cheap shot.
    Christianity is a necessity for a coherent metaphysical understanding of the universe. It is undoubtedly true.
    But the notion that any one denomination holds the flame of truth is a proposition that has been torn to shreds, partially by the severe cuckery displayed in the CV hoax.

  104. @Blinky Bill
    @AP


    And maybe many of the Asians arriving are the kind of people who fit better than do those who choose to stay at home
     
    Gran Torino Americans


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/Vang-mug.jpg

    Chai Soua Vang (born September 24, 1968) is a naturalized Hmong American from Laos who was convicted of murder, but claimed self defense. Vang, a six-year veteran of the California National Guard, shot eight people while on a hunting trip in northern Wisconsin on November 21, 2004; six were killed and two were wounded.

    https://youtu.be/d_CaZ4EAexQ

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    [MORE]

  105. @another anon
    @HallParvey


    Protestants too? And they all disagree vehemently about what constitutes Christianty. If any one of them is right, all the others are wrong. Perhaps they are all wrong. Which means their eternity insurance policy might be fraudulent. Oops.
     
    The only true Christians are Jehova's Witnesses.

    Poor and humble
    Peaceful and nonviolent
    Preaching the Gospel and proselytizing everywhere
    Not interested in politics
    Never bowing to any satanic idols, including national flags and anthems
    Awaiting end of the world every day
    Always ready to die for their faith

    The closest thing to first century apostolic Christianity you are going to find on this Earth.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/37/63/863763406f7ccef06ac4cf202ebf72e5.jpg

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist, @anonymous coward

    They’re not Christians and their ‘translation’ of the Bible is filled with lies

  106. @Toronto Russian
    @Europe Europa


    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.
     
    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! "
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven't, it's beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it's written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don't get me started on the "tundra fever" of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/650760/650760_original.jpg

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/651623/651623_original.jpg

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You'd think only "our man+foreign woman" couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1338587/1338587_original.jpg

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.
     
    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Gowro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AP, @Mikhail, @Inselaffen, @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

  107. PC USA

    Re: Two Below Links Regarding Police Activity

    Not gonna do a Drew Brees, who in this PC influenced society should’ve chosen his words more carefully, in the form of saying he’s opposed to bigotry and police abuse, while not believing that it’s okay to do something political when the national anthem is played.

    It might very well prove that the Floyd killing wasn’t so much about race as has been presented. Let’s see what the complaint record is against Chauvin. If there’s a fairly balanced multiethnic representation of complaints against him, then that can serve as proof that he’s just an all around bad guy as opposed to being more of a a racist.

    There’s also a possible premeditated aspect at play. As has been reported, Chauvin and Floyd worked at the same night club. We should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time in believing that Floyd didn’t deserve to be held to the ground in the manner that he was, while noting that he was far from a choir boy. As has been stated in cyber, he attacked a woman, with an autopsy revealing that his body had a noticeable amount of fentanyl.

    On the matter of outrage, there appears to be limited outrage for the retired cop (an African-American for you overly race conscious types), who was fatally shot during one of the protests which had riot attributes.

    Regarding the protests, what happened to all of the social distancing? If there’s no spike in the next few weeks, then the gyms and pools should reopen with more sanitary guidelines.

    It was disgusting to see a major roadway near me turned into a parking lot of traffic on account of protestors taking matters into their own hands. That highway is used for emergency circumstances for people of all races. So much for those who hypocritically highlight what lives matter.

    On a pleasant note, the park near me is comfortably and peacefully being utilized by people of all ages and ethnic backgrounds – Latins, Blacks, Orthodox Jews, Southwest and South East Asians, generic (for lack of a better term) looking Whites and Russian speakers. I’ve seen a few cars with Ukrainian flag/coat of arms markings, as well as one expressing and identity with Gruzia. My car has a black, gold and white tri-color sticker with a two headed eagle in the middle of it and a Россия decal with white, blue and red lettering.

    https://medium.com/@agent.orange.chicago/unarmed-killings-of-african-americans-numbered-under-10-last-year-a-400-reduction-since-2015-e54f3eeb67ae

  108. I’m skeptical of the claims that all this black rioting that has kicked off is part of some masterminded left wing globalist plot. From what I’ve seen of blacks they’re perfectly capable of hating whitey without needing some “Schlomo” to tell them to do so.

    Are the Jews and leftists solely to blame for the mass murder of whites since the end of Apartheid in South Africa? Or is it the innately violent, hateful and tribalistic nature of Africans? I think blaming their destruction and violence on leftists and Jews is letting them off the hook. I see no evidence that blacks would behave any different no matter what sort of propaganda they heard.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    @Europe Europa


    Are the Jews and leftists solely to blame for the mass murder of whites since the end of Apartheid in South Africa? Or is it the innately violent, hateful and tribalistic nature of Africans? I think blaming their destruction and violence on leftists and Jews is letting them off the hook.
     
    What is the point in blaming the savage dog rather than the person who let it loose on you?

    Replies: @Europe Europa

  109. @Toronto Russian
    @Europe Europa


    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.
     
    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! "
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven't, it's beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it's written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don't get me started on the "tundra fever" of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/650760/650760_original.jpg

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/651623/651623_original.jpg

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You'd think only "our man+foreign woman" couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1338587/1338587_original.jpg

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.
     
    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Gowro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AP, @Mikhail, @Inselaffen, @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

    • Replies: @A123
    @Anatoly Karlin

    AK,

    Your image shows up as a broken link.

    I think WordPress, and possibly other services, changed default settings about a month ago. Hotlinking of images is now frequently blocked. I know a number of sites that I previously used now have similar fails.

    PEACE 😷

    , @Blinky Bill
    @Anatoly Karlin

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSWUJ_dLV22fF8oqNZAzsITdYGvMzhqVvZlpOTGpDT3k6_rNQ2_&usqp.jpg

  110. @Toronto Russian
    @Europe Europa


    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.
     
    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! "
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven't, it's beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it's written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don't get me started on the "tundra fever" of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/650760/650760_original.jpg

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/651623/651623_original.jpg

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You'd think only "our man+foreign woman" couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1338587/1338587_original.jpg

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.
     
    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Gowro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AP, @Mikhail, @Inselaffen, @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

    An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.

    Well, Korea’s prince did marry a diaspora Ukrainian-American woman. Their wedding was in a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in New York:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Mullock

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AP

    Chiang Kai Shek's son who succeeded him as head of state had a Belarusian wife:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Ching-kuo#Moscow

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Fang-liang

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    , @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Reminds me of the flamboyant marriage of a Ukrainian fighter pilot who apparently married a Mohawk princess. Don't know just how true all of the details are, but even if made-up, sounds like an interesting plot. I'd love to see the film, made in 2012:


    Film maker Mykhailo Illienko worked on this full-length feature film several years. It has all the elements of a great cinematic tale. “Fire Crosser” is not a documentary but it is based on historical realities. It’s about a highly decorated Soviet Ukrainian squadron leader who is captured by the Germans in WW II and considered missing in action. He manages to escape German captivity and cross impossible front lines to return to his squadron only to be arrested and hauled off to Siberia as a traitor. This time he manages to escape Russian imprisonment and ends up in Canada to become a Mohawk chief all the while maintaining his Ukrainian cultural identity.
     
    http://www.homin.ca/news.php/news/9932/group/27

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b4/%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D1%85%D1%82%D0%BE_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%88%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B7%D1%8C_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%8C.jpg

  111. @Toronto Russian
    @Europe Europa


    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.
     
    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! "
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven't, it's beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it's written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don't get me started on the "tundra fever" of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/650760/650760_original.jpg

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/651623/651623_original.jpg

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You'd think only "our man+foreign woman" couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1338587/1338587_original.jpg

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.
     
    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Gowro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AP, @Mikhail, @Inselaffen, @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

    If I’m not mistaken, Cossacks and/or some other Russian settlers in northern California mixed with American Indians, with some of the kids getting educated in Russia.

  112. @AP
    @Znzn

    Perhaps frontier aspects of the culture have perpetuated themselves even after the frontier has passed.* And maybe many of the Asians arriving are the kind of people who fit better than do those who choose to stay at home (I realize this is speculation and approaches a just-so-story).

    * People who came to the USA from Europe after World War II, despite not settling in frontiers, have noted the “cowboy” like qualities of their white neighbors. Not coincidentally, cowboy themes and violence in general have been staples of American mass entertainment.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Mr. Hack

    Back in the day, besides playing softball and touch football, especially among American white youngsters, they’d play “Cowboys and Indians” and “Army”. It wasn’t uncommon at all for a kid to have a holster, fake bullets and pistol too. All sorts of Western TV serials were broadcast over the Tube, that helped fuel this “Cowboy frontier” mentality that you bring up:


    Good or bad?

  113. @AP
    @Toronto Russian


    An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
     
    Well, Korea’s prince did marry a diaspora Ukrainian-American woman. Their wedding was in a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in New York:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Mullock

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mr. Hack

    Chiang Kai Shek’s son who succeeded him as head of state had a Belarusian wife:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Ching-kuo#Moscow

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Fang-liang

    • Thanks: AP
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Mikhail

    Russian-born widow of top Chinese Communist dies at 101
    Born into an aristocratic family, Lisa Kishkin later married Mao Zedong’s predecessor as Chinese Communist leader, Li Lisan.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/1794474/russian-born-widow-top-chinese-communist-dies-101

  114. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Toronto Russian

    https://memestatic.fjcdn.com/pictures/Merciful+farflung+emu_acb687_7618111.jpg

    Replies: @A123, @Blinky Bill

    AK,

    Your image shows up as a broken link.

    I think WordPress, and possibly other services, changed default settings about a month ago. Hotlinking of images is now frequently blocked. I know a number of sites that I previously used now have similar fails.

    PEACE 😷

  115. I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.

    Love is Love.

    [MORE]

    Pallete married Wayne in 1954, and they remained married until his death in 1979

  116. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Toronto Russian

    https://memestatic.fjcdn.com/pictures/Merciful+farflung+emu_acb687_7618111.jpg

    Replies: @A123, @Blinky Bill

  117. Francesca Maria Barbara Donner (Korean: 프란체스카 도너; Peurancheseuka Doneo; June 15, 1900 – March 19, 1992) was the inaugural First Lady of South Korea, from 1948 to 1960, as the second wife of Syngman Rhee, the first President of the Republic of Korea.

  118. @AP
    @Toronto Russian


    An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
     
    Well, Korea’s prince did marry a diaspora Ukrainian-American woman. Their wedding was in a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in New York:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Mullock

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mr. Hack

    Reminds me of the flamboyant marriage of a Ukrainian fighter pilot who apparently married a Mohawk princess. Don’t know just how true all of the details are, but even if made-up, sounds like an interesting plot. I’d love to see the film, made in 2012:

    Film maker Mykhailo Illienko worked on this full-length feature film several years. It has all the elements of a great cinematic tale. “Fire Crosser” is not a documentary but it is based on historical realities. It’s about a highly decorated Soviet Ukrainian squadron leader who is captured by the Germans in WW II and considered missing in action. He manages to escape German captivity and cross impossible front lines to return to his squadron only to be arrested and hauled off to Siberia as a traitor. This time he manages to escape Russian imprisonment and ends up in Canada to become a Mohawk chief all the while maintaining his Ukrainian cultural identity.

    http://www.homin.ca/news.php/news/9932/group/27

  119. @Europe Europa
    I'm skeptical of the claims that all this black rioting that has kicked off is part of some masterminded left wing globalist plot. From what I've seen of blacks they're perfectly capable of hating whitey without needing some "Schlomo" to tell them to do so.

    Are the Jews and leftists solely to blame for the mass murder of whites since the end of Apartheid in South Africa? Or is it the innately violent, hateful and tribalistic nature of Africans? I think blaming their destruction and violence on leftists and Jews is letting them off the hook. I see no evidence that blacks would behave any different no matter what sort of propaganda they heard.

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist

    Are the Jews and leftists solely to blame for the mass murder of whites since the end of Apartheid in South Africa? Or is it the innately violent, hateful and tribalistic nature of Africans? I think blaming their destruction and violence on leftists and Jews is letting them off the hook.

    What is the point in blaming the savage dog rather than the person who let it loose on you?

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    @Kent Nationalist

    A lot of people seem to be under the impression that if blacks weren't being manipulated by ANTIFA, Jews, etc, then they would be peaceful law abiding citizens and that there is nothing fundamentally wrong about blacks living in white countries.

    My opinion is that blacks are innately violent and destructive and will always be a disproportionately dangerous and criminal element in any white society even if there was no leftist, anti-white propaganda, yet this opinion seems unpopular to put it mildly even on the right. I would agree that natural black behaviour is being weaponised by leftist, anti-white groups but that underlying behaviour will always be there with blacks regardless of any political influences.

  120. @Toronto Russian
    @Europe Europa


    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.
     
    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! "
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven't, it's beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it's written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don't get me started on the "tundra fever" of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/650760/650760_original.jpg

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/651623/651623_original.jpg

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You'd think only "our man+foreign woman" couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1338587/1338587_original.jpg

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.
     
    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Gowro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AP, @Mikhail, @Inselaffen, @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

    I think those kinds of princess stories are actually kind of self-serving ethnic pride boosters, like ‘even this plain peasant girl from our people is considered worthy of being the highest princess by theirs’.

    & extreme ethnocentric behavior is hardly a blip in history… an ideology of racial purity may be a blip but the environment that would cause it is also a blip (widely diverse populations coming together).

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  121. Did 19th century Europeans see Russian Slavs as being white/fully European? Or as some sort of Asiatic-European breed? Wasn’t there a saying back then that Asia started East of Budapest, back during the time when 60 percent of Americans had a dim view of Jews in general? And California and the West Coast had its anti miscegenation laws because of Asian immigration.

    • Replies: @Pumblechook
    @Znzn

    Grattez le Russe et vous trouverez le Tatare

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Ano4

  122. I think those kinds of princess stories are actually kind of self-serving ethnic pride boosters, like ‘even this plain peasant girl from our people is considered worthy of being the highest princess by theirs’.

    [MORE]

  123. @Beckow
    The corona basically unplugged the pre-2020 world and it won't matter much whether the panic was justified or not, the previous global, liberal world will stay unplugged. There is no way back and the assorted Merkels, Trumps, BoJos and Macrons are at this point side characters. The global liberals are on a last-ditch fanatical offensive - it doesn't get any more silly than mass kneeling in from of a porn-actor effigy. I doubt they can prevail, but they will try. The other side - nationalist, conservative, traditional whatever they are called - either finally gets some balls or they might as well withdraw to the countryside. You can't fight something with nothing.

    We are also celebrating 100 years since Trianon Treaty that freed 10's of millions of people in Central Europe from the Habsburg-Magyar idiocy. Some still cry over it, to them I say that Trianon was an inevitable consequence of the stale, inbred Habsburgs and the irrational, narcissistic Magyars and what they did in the generation preceding WWI. Stupidity has consequences, there is a lesson there for today's morons who can't accept reality. Franz Ferdinand and corona have a lot in common.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @songbird, @Alexander Turok, @Old Palo Altan

    Don’t be an ass.
    If Franz Ferdinand had become Emperor he would have subdued the Magyars, freed the Czechs, and set up a tripartite Empire which, under his enlightened but deeply Catholic and traditional leadership, would have flourished into the 1930s, by which time poor Karl would have been ready to succeed, no longer the wet young man he was in 1916, so unfortunately for his empire and, indeed, all the rest of us.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Old Palo Altan

    That's a big if. I generally discount hopes based on a single personality - as we see with Trump, the 'state' tends to persevere and prevail over an isolated leader.

    Habsburgs failed to manage the Magyars, that's what destroyed the Empire. There was no way to federate or modernise the Monarchy with Magyars out of control in one-half of it. That failure resulted in the Empire's collapse. Your belief that Franz Ferdinand would had corrected it is interesting, but totally unsupported by reality - there was not much he could do, and talk is cheap. Habsburgs were weak and wimps don't get to keep power during times of crisis. I stand by what I wrote.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

  124. Btw, for those criticizing US elites for being AIPAC puppets, what about Putin and his Jewish oligarchs and his bff Netanyahu, so much for Russia being the great hope for counter-Zionist resistance right? Or maybe one believes that all of Putin’s Jewish oligarch friends are self-hating Jews?

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Znzn

    Putin is not an anti-Zionist, never was, probably never will be.

    Russians in general are not supportive of Palestinian rights.

    Russian in general have a rather neutral opinion about Jews and the Jewish Question in general.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Znzn

    , @A123
    @Znzn

    Russia and Israel have strong, positive relationship.

    -- Israel has a large Russian speaking political party http://ndi.org.il that is frequently the swing group in elections (though not this time).
    -- A large number of families were physically split by migration, creating extensive social & personal ties between the nations.
    -- Russian & Israeli firms have high $ value co-ventures. Most notably the ~$900MM sale of Phalcon AWACS to India.

    There is no Russian upside & a guaranteed downside to openly supporting the Muslim occupation of Judea & Samaria. Therefore, it is in Russia's national interest to avoid interference in internal Israeli matters.

    PEACE 😷

    , @AaronB
    @Znzn

    This may be news to you, but most nationalist parties in Europe are very pro-Israel and anti-Muslim.

    Anti-Zionism is generally an extreme Leftist position - the people who hate whites and nationalism hate Jews, quelle surprise - and a bizarre extremist faction of the American alt-right that thinks opposing Jewish nationalists who like the West is somehow a great way to get back at extreme Leftist Jews who hate Israel and the West equally.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  125. @Mikhail
    @AP

    Chiang Kai Shek's son who succeeded him as head of state had a Belarusian wife:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Ching-kuo#Moscow

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Fang-liang

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    Russian-born widow of top Chinese Communist dies at 101
    Born into an aristocratic family, Lisa Kishkin later married Mao Zedong’s predecessor as Chinese Communist leader, Li Lisan.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/1794474/russian-born-widow-top-chinese-communist-dies-101

  126. @Znzn
    Btw, for those criticizing US elites for being AIPAC puppets, what about Putin and his Jewish oligarchs and his bff Netanyahu, so much for Russia being the great hope for counter-Zionist resistance right? Or maybe one believes that all of Putin's Jewish oligarch friends are self-hating Jews?

    Replies: @Ano4, @A123, @AaronB

    Putin is not an anti-Zionist, never was, probably never will be.

    Russians in general are not supportive of Palestinian rights.

    Russian in general have a rather neutral opinion about Jews and the Jewish Question in general.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @Ano4

    Russians in general and Putin in particular are just tolerant. They don’t preach tolerance and equality (and laugh at those who do, including Western libtards), there are plenty of politically incorrect jokes about various nationalities and races, but in real life most Russians treat each person according to his/her individual qualities. Sensible approach, if you ask me.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Znzn
    @Ano4

    Anyone who is not consciously anti Zionist is basically a Jewish stooge or a puppet of Jews? Especially if that person is surrounded by rich Jewish "friends"?Possibly? Maybe?

    Replies: @Ano4

  127. Ano4 says:

    An interesting take on the African American problem by David P. Goldman (nom de plume Spengler), in Asia Times:

    In 1993 the Reverend Calvin Butts, pastor of Harlem’s Abyssinian Baptist Church and the most distinguished black pastor in New York, drove a bulldozer up to the headquarters of Sony Music and crushed a pile of rap CD’s to protest their effect on black youth. More recently, the first black president hosted an obscenity-spewing rapper at the White House.

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/the-humiliation-and-rage-of-black-america/

    He basically writes that African Americans are devastated by a feeling of humiliation because of their failure to achieve the status promised to them by White Liberals.

    He writes about this feeling of humiliation turning into rage, which is first and foremost directed at their own kin in their own communities.

    Of course, Goldman being Jewish is not afraid of being branded as racist.

    Interesting article.

  128. @Ano4
    @Znzn

    Putin is not an anti-Zionist, never was, probably never will be.

    Russians in general are not supportive of Palestinian rights.

    Russian in general have a rather neutral opinion about Jews and the Jewish Question in general.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Znzn

    Russians in general and Putin in particular are just tolerant. They don’t preach tolerance and equality (and laugh at those who do, including Western libtards), there are plenty of politically incorrect jokes about various nationalities and races, but in real life most Russians treat each person according to his/her individual qualities. Sensible approach, if you ask me.

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AnonFromTN

    Putin is both very philosemitic, and somewhat pro-Israel. This is not a result of some magical conspiracy, or a secret Jewish ancestry, or "control by Zionists".

    Putin is philosemitic because his particular childhood in Leningrad with Jewish friends, Jewish teachers (he later bought an apartment in Tel Aviv for his old teacher of German), and of Jewish neighbours. Leningrad of his youth had a lot of Jews.

    Putin is pro-Israel because - he rented a car with his family, and drove all around Israel in the 1990s. What he liked is not clear. (I could not find an interview where he says why he loved it, just an interview where he says he loved it). But in general, someone with his state-building views, would probably admire the combination in Israel of so much flags and patriotism despite (or because of) so much multiracialism and multiculturalism of the population.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

  129. @Ano4
    @Znzn

    Putin is not an anti-Zionist, never was, probably never will be.

    Russians in general are not supportive of Palestinian rights.

    Russian in general have a rather neutral opinion about Jews and the Jewish Question in general.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Znzn

    Anyone who is not consciously anti Zionist is basically a Jewish stooge or a puppet of Jews? Especially if that person is surrounded by rich Jewish “friends”?Possibly? Maybe?

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Znzn

    I think this is too extreme an approach to the Zionist and Jewish problem in general.

    If problem there is.

    I personally don't care about either Zionism or Arab nationalism (arguably a thing of the past).

    For me both Semitic groups deserve each other.

    I find both equally interesting sometimes, obnoxious and annoying at other times.

    Now about Russian Jewish Oligarchs, Jews were the group that was the better organized to profit from the fall of the USSR.

    Many of Soviet Jews were connected to both the shadow economy of the early 80ies Soviet Union, the organized crime (Russian Mafia slang is actually nearly 50% Yiddish in origin) and to outside funding through the diaspora.

    Yet the vast majority of them simply chose to immigrate to Israel and North America.

    Those who stayed behind to become Oligarchs were truly outstanding individuals, that does not mean that they were good people, they were ruthless scum, but they were also outstanding.

    They were ready to take the most from the unfolding catastrophe and they did just that.

    While many Russians were trying to figure out what was really happening, Jewish Oligarchs were making their first millions.

    And while becoming rich and powerful they came to work with corrupt former KGB, military and Nomenklatura people of different ethnic groups of RusFed.

    That is the matrix of the early 90ies in Russia.

    Putin is simply a direct byproduct of this matrix.

    He helped to normalize the situation compared to Yeltsin years.

    But he is not a "White Russian Tsar" some have wet dreams about.

    And I don't think he is a "Shabbos goy" either.

    He is just doing what the current Russian elites think needs been done: consolidating their power and transferring their ill acquired wealth to their descendants.

    Replies: @another anon

  130. @Morton's toes
    @Passer by

    I had never heard of Edward Colston before today!


    Colston supported and endowed schools, almshouses, hospitals and churches in Bristol, London and elsewhere. Many of his charitable foundations survive to this day.[4]

    In Bristol, he founded almshouses in King Street and Colstons Almshouses on St Michael's Hill, endowed Queen Elizabeth's Hospital school and helped found Colston's Hospital, a boarding school which opened in 1710 leaving an endowment to be managed by the Society of Merchant Venturers for its upkeep. He gave money to schools in Temple (one of which went on to become St Mary Redcliffe and Temple School) and other parts of Bristol, and to several churches and the cathedral. He was a strong Tory and high-churchman, and was returned as Member of Parliament (MP) for Bristol in 1710 for just one parliament.[5]

    David Hughson writing in 1808 described Colston as "the great benefactor of the city of Bristol, who, in his lifetime, expended more than 70,000L. [£] in charitable institutions"
     
    Somebody needs to get out in front and promote blowing up the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial. Actually they should blow up the whole city of Washington or at least rename it to Turner (Nat) or (Toussaint) L'Overture.

    I vote for Toussaint L'Overture. I enjoy saying it.

    Replies: @FD

    May as well go all out and rename it to Dessalines.

  131. @Znzn
    Btw, for those criticizing US elites for being AIPAC puppets, what about Putin and his Jewish oligarchs and his bff Netanyahu, so much for Russia being the great hope for counter-Zionist resistance right? Or maybe one believes that all of Putin's Jewish oligarch friends are self-hating Jews?

    Replies: @Ano4, @A123, @AaronB

    Russia and Israel have strong, positive relationship.

    — Israel has a large Russian speaking political party http://ndi.org.il that is frequently the swing group in elections (though not this time).
    — A large number of families were physically split by migration, creating extensive social & personal ties between the nations.
    — Russian & Israeli firms have high $ value co-ventures. Most notably the ~$900MM sale of Phalcon AWACS to India.

    There is no Russian upside & a guaranteed downside to openly supporting the Muslim occupation of Judea & Samaria. Therefore, it is in Russia’s national interest to avoid interference in internal Israeli matters.

    PEACE 😷

  132. @Kent Nationalist
    @Europe Europa


    Are the Jews and leftists solely to blame for the mass murder of whites since the end of Apartheid in South Africa? Or is it the innately violent, hateful and tribalistic nature of Africans? I think blaming their destruction and violence on leftists and Jews is letting them off the hook.
     
    What is the point in blaming the savage dog rather than the person who let it loose on you?

    Replies: @Europe Europa

    A lot of people seem to be under the impression that if blacks weren’t being manipulated by ANTIFA, Jews, etc, then they would be peaceful law abiding citizens and that there is nothing fundamentally wrong about blacks living in white countries.

    My opinion is that blacks are innately violent and destructive and will always be a disproportionately dangerous and criminal element in any white society even if there was no leftist, anti-white propaganda, yet this opinion seems unpopular to put it mildly even on the right. I would agree that natural black behaviour is being weaponised by leftist, anti-white groups but that underlying behaviour will always be there with blacks regardless of any political influences.

  133. @AnonFromTN
    @ImmortalRationalist

    City of Minneapolis is committing a comprehensive suicide. Their cuck-dominated city council decided to dismantle the police and replace it with some “community safety” BS. If they do that, Minneapolis has only one way to go: the way of Detroit. Most normal people would flee gang-infested shithole Minneapolis would become. Personally, I would never even visit that favela.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @ImmortalRationalist, @Thorfinnsson

    Remains to be seen. Are they really going to get rid of the police, or will they simply rebrand the police? Or perhaps they’ll announce a grand plan to get rid of the police, only to quietly shelve the plan next year.

    It should also be pointed out that Minneapolis is only one-fifth black. If the city really does eliminate the police, negro pandemonium may well be contained by hmong and hispanic gangs.

    Of course, obviously the fact that abolishing the police is considered a serious proposal in contemporary America is an exceedingly negative indicator for this country’s future.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Thorfinnsson


    may well be contained by hmong and hispanic gangs.
     
    Are there no more Walt Kowalskis left ?



    https://youtu.be/jeL3q_jEZug
    , @AnonFromTN
    @Thorfinnsson


    Of course, obviously the fact that abolishing the police is considered a serious proposal in contemporary America is an exceedingly negative indicator for this country’s future
     
    It is a negative indicator for the future because it is proof positive of deep-seated insanity. But maybe you are right: the talk will remain just that, the talk. That’s a tradition of both Dem and Rep politicians.
  134. @Znzn
    @Ano4

    Anyone who is not consciously anti Zionist is basically a Jewish stooge or a puppet of Jews? Especially if that person is surrounded by rich Jewish "friends"?Possibly? Maybe?

    Replies: @Ano4

    I think this is too extreme an approach to the Zionist and Jewish problem in general.

    If problem there is.

    I personally don’t care about either Zionism or Arab nationalism (arguably a thing of the past).

    For me both Semitic groups deserve each other.

    I find both equally interesting sometimes, obnoxious and annoying at other times.

    Now about Russian Jewish Oligarchs, Jews were the group that was the better organized to profit from the fall of the USSR.

    Many of Soviet Jews were connected to both the shadow economy of the early 80ies Soviet Union, the organized crime (Russian Mafia slang is actually nearly 50% Yiddish in origin) and to outside funding through the diaspora.

    Yet the vast majority of them simply chose to immigrate to Israel and North America.

    Those who stayed behind to become Oligarchs were truly outstanding individuals, that does not mean that they were good people, they were ruthless scum, but they were also outstanding.

    They were ready to take the most from the unfolding catastrophe and they did just that.

    While many Russians were trying to figure out what was really happening, Jewish Oligarchs were making their first millions.

    And while becoming rich and powerful they came to work with corrupt former KGB, military and Nomenklatura people of different ethnic groups of RusFed.

    That is the matrix of the early 90ies in Russia.

    Putin is simply a direct byproduct of this matrix.

    He helped to normalize the situation compared to Yeltsin years.

    But he is not a “White Russian Tsar” some have wet dreams about.

    And I don’t think he is a “Shabbos goy” either.

    He is just doing what the current Russian elites think needs been done: consolidating their power and transferring their ill acquired wealth to their descendants.

    • Replies: @another anon
    @Ano4


    Many of Soviet Jews were connected to both the shadow economy of the early 80ies Soviet Union, the organized crime (Russian Mafia slang is actually nearly 50% Yiddish in origin) and to outside funding through the diaspora.

    Yet the vast majority of them simply chose to immigrate to Israel and North America.
     
    There is nothing special about Jews - in the nineties, everyone who could left the sinking ship of Soviet Union as fast as possible.

    Soviet Jews, Soviet Germans, people who bought birth certificates of Jewish or German ancestors, skilled professionals (like Karlin's family), mail order brides, asylum seekers of all kind, etc, etc.

    Replies: @Ano4

  135. @ImmortalRationalist
    @AnonFromTN

    Swedish Americans may be just as bad as Swedes in Sweden.

    Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @DC Nate

    Swedish-Americans are less than one-tenth of the population of Minneapolis. All Scandinavians together about one-fifth.

    Among current Minneapolis City Council members there isn’t a single Scandinavian surname, unless you count a fellow named Johnson (more likely English).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Thorfinnsson

    But they do have an impressive museum where they showcase their unique culture in Mpls:

    https://www.asimn.org/sites/default/files/styles/oc_picture_header_desk_narrow/public/panarama_of_mansion_-_by_todd_hollingsworth.jpeg?itok=Y3aUeVc9&timestamp=1588704269

    https://www.asimn.org/sites/default/files/styles/oc_embed_medium/public/grand_hall_asi_smaller_jpg.jpg?itok=ceBIqPxI

    My best friend growing-up in Mpls was called "The Big Swede". 6'4'' and big boned with an impressively big brain to go along with the brawn.

  136. @AnonFromTN
    @songbird

    I did not watch a single movie since Fahrenheit 9/11. Saved a lot of time and did not miss anything of value.

    Replies: @songbird

    I did not watch a single movie since Fahrenheit 9/11.

    Hollywood easily exceeds Sturgeon’s Law. Films are a work of ambition – it takes a lot of people cooperating to make a serious film. Many things can go wrong, and when you add in certain perverse incentives, they rarely go right.

    I only rarely watch very recent films, but the last movie from the West that I enjoyed on some level – it was far from perfect – was They Shall Not Grow Old (2018) – a documentary about WWI. I also watched the movie 1917, but I did not like it. Sometimes, it is interesting to see a movie, just to figure out the reasons that you don’t like it.

    I think as human beings, we all need stories. And on occasions where I have to read a lot during the day, the last thing I want to do is crack open a book at night – there’s a limit to what the eyes can do. So, I think sometimes it is nice to watch a movie, especially if you sit outside, and have a fire. Sometimes, it is nice to see the films of other countries too – it is almost like traveling there.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird


    So, I think sometimes it is nice to watch a movie, especially if you sit outside, and have a fire. Sometimes, it is nice to see the films of other countries too – it is almost like traveling there.
     
    Both books and films have their pluses and minuses. I greatly enjoyed the first "Godfather" movie and after reading the novel, felt that the film was lacking in a lot of detail. After re-watching this film again, I came to appreciate the visual and sound accompaniments that couldn't be duplicated within the written script. Also, I sometimes find that while watching a film, especially an older one that I'm not totally enthralled with, I get to see details about the fashions, music, architecture and other historical features of another era that I might not run across anywhere else. It's almost like climbing inside of a time machine!

    Replies: @songbird

    , @AnonFromTN
    @songbird

    So far I avoid doing reading + writing more than half of my time at work. Some real benchwork is such a relief. Besides, that’s the only thing that gives you instant gratification. Not to mention that in experimental science news only come from the bench: it you got it from your computer, someone already knew it and put it there, so it ain’t new. I prefer books: the stories are better and more varied, and you can read books from different countries. I have to read everything except Russian, English, and Ukrainian in translation, but a good translation preserves the flavor.

  137. @Nodwink
    It looks like someone has been reading Ron's American Pravda classic:

    https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1269679653477912579

    Replies: @Ad70titusrevenge

    It’s another Shoah. I’m calling the ADL. Lol lol lol

  138. @Blinky Bill
    @songbird



    https://youtu.be/Q4SNsgwXsys

    Replies: @songbird

    Of all the countries with pre-1900 black populations, IMO, India is the most surprising. It would be fascinating to analyze their DNA, especially the admixed ones. I knew of them, but had no idea that they were on the dole.
    I thought India was racist – I am disappointed.

    Honestly, had no idea that were still Asiatic lions. But maybe it makes sense, as perhaps tigers, which are not social, would have trouble hunting elephants. I guess being social is also sort of a curse, and makes it harder to survive in a human-populated environment.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @songbird


    Recent advances in genetic analyses have helped shed some light on the ethnogenesis of the Siddi. Genetic genealogy, although a novel tool that uses the genes of modern populations to trace their ethnic and geographic origins, has also helped clarify the possible background of the modern Siddi.

    Y DNA
    A Y-chromosome study by Shah et al. (2011) tested Siddi individuals in India for paternal lineages. The authors observed the E1b1a1-M2 haplogroup, which is frequent among Bantu peoples, in about 42% and 34% of Siddis from Karnataka and Gujarat, respectively. Around 14% of Siddis from Karnataka and 35% of Siddis from Gujarat also belonged to the Sub-Saharan B-M60. The remaining Siddis had Indian associated or Near Eastern-linked clades, including haplogroups P, H, R1a-M17, J2 and L-M20.

    Thangaraj (2009) observed similar, mainly Bantu-linked paternal affinities amongst the Siddi.

    Qamar et al. (2002) analysed Makrani Siddis in Pakistan and found that they instead predominantly carried Indian-associated or Near Eastern-linked haplogroups. R1a1a-M17 (30.30%), J2 (18.18%) and R2 (18.18%) were their most common male lineages. Only around 12% carried Africa-derived clades, which mainly consisted of the archaic haplogroup B-M60, of which they bore the highest frequency of any Pakistani population Underhill et al. (2009) likewise detected a relatively high frequency of R1a1a-M17 (25%) subclade among Makrani Siddis.

    mtDNA Edit
    According to an mtDNA study by Shah et al. (2011), the maternal ancestry of the Siddi consists of a mixture of Bantu-associated haplogroups and Indian-associated haplogroups, reflecting substantial female gene flow from neighbouring Indian populations. About 53% of the Siddis from Gujarat and 24% of the Siddis from Karnataka belonged to various Bantu-derived macro-haplogroup L subclades. The latter mainly consisted of L0 and L2a sublineages associated with Bantu women. The remainder possessed Indian-specific subclades of the Eurasian haplogroups M and N, which points to recent admixture with autochthonous Indian groups.

    Autosomal DNA
    Narang et al. (2011) examined the autosomal DNA of Siddis in India. According to the researchers, about 58% of the Siddis' ancestry is derived from Bantu peoples. The remainder is associated with local Indo-European-speaking North and Northwest Indian populations, due to recent admixture events.

    Similarly, Shah et al. (2011) observed that Siddis in Gujarat derive 66.90%–70.50% of their ancestry from Bantu forebears, while the Siddis in Karnataka possess 64.80%–74.40% such Southeast African ancestry. The remaining autosomal DNA components in the studied Siddi were mainly associated with local South Asian populations. According to the authors, gene flow between the Siddis' Bantu ancestors and local Indian populations was also largely unidirectional. They estimate this admixture episode's time of occurrence at within the past 200 years or eight generations.

    However, Guha et al. (2012) observed few genetic differences between the Makrani of Pakistan and adjacent populations. According to the authors, the genome-wide ancestry of the Makrani was essentially the same as that of the neighboring Indo-European speaking Balochi and Dravidian-speaking Brahui.

  139. @songbird
    @AnonFromTN


    I did not watch a single movie since Fahrenheit 9/11.
     
    Hollywood easily exceeds Sturgeon's Law. Films are a work of ambition - it takes a lot of people cooperating to make a serious film. Many things can go wrong, and when you add in certain perverse incentives, they rarely go right.

    I only rarely watch very recent films, but the last movie from the West that I enjoyed on some level - it was far from perfect - was They Shall Not Grow Old (2018) - a documentary about WWI. I also watched the movie 1917, but I did not like it. Sometimes, it is interesting to see a movie, just to figure out the reasons that you don't like it.

    I think as human beings, we all need stories. And on occasions where I have to read a lot during the day, the last thing I want to do is crack open a book at night - there's a limit to what the eyes can do. So, I think sometimes it is nice to watch a movie, especially if you sit outside, and have a fire. Sometimes, it is nice to see the films of other countries too - it is almost like traveling there.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonFromTN

    So, I think sometimes it is nice to watch a movie, especially if you sit outside, and have a fire. Sometimes, it is nice to see the films of other countries too – it is almost like traveling there.

    Both books and films have their pluses and minuses. I greatly enjoyed the first “Godfather” movie and after reading the novel, felt that the film was lacking in a lot of detail. After re-watching this film again, I came to appreciate the visual and sound accompaniments that couldn’t be duplicated within the written script. Also, I sometimes find that while watching a film, especially an older one that I’m not totally enthralled with, I get to see details about the fashions, music, architecture and other historical features of another era that I might not run across anywhere else. It’s almost like climbing inside of a time machine!

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    I also enjoyed the first Godfather. Coppola put some nice touches on it, but I sometimes feel he's given too much credit for it, as people act like he created the story.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail, @Mikhail

  140. @ImmortalRationalist
    @AnonFromTN

    Swedish Americans may be just as bad as Swedes in Sweden.

    Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @DC Nate

    Gunnar: “In my country, Sweden, we have no sanity.”
    Milton: “That’s interesting! In my country, we have no sanity among Swedes, either.”

  141. @Thorfinnsson
    @ImmortalRationalist

    Swedish-Americans are less than one-tenth of the population of Minneapolis. All Scandinavians together about one-fifth.

    Among current Minneapolis City Council members there isn't a single Scandinavian surname, unless you count a fellow named Johnson (more likely English).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    But they do have an impressive museum where they showcase their unique culture in Mpls:

    My best friend growing-up in Mpls was called “The Big Swede”. 6’4” and big boned with an impressively big brain to go along with the brawn.

  142. @Thorfinnsson
    @AnonFromTN

    Remains to be seen. Are they really going to get rid of the police, or will they simply rebrand the police? Or perhaps they'll announce a grand plan to get rid of the police, only to quietly shelve the plan next year.

    It should also be pointed out that Minneapolis is only one-fifth black. If the city really does eliminate the police, negro pandemonium may well be contained by hmong and hispanic gangs.

    Of course, obviously the fact that abolishing the police is considered a serious proposal in contemporary America is an exceedingly negative indicator for this country's future.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @AnonFromTN

    may well be contained by hmong and hispanic gangs.

    Are there no more Walt Kowalskis left ?

    [MORE]

  143. @Old Palo Altan
    @Beckow

    Don't be an ass.
    If Franz Ferdinand had become Emperor he would have subdued the Magyars, freed the Czechs, and set up a tripartite Empire which, under his enlightened but deeply Catholic and traditional leadership, would have flourished into the 1930s, by which time poor Karl would have been ready to succeed, no longer the wet young man he was in 1916, so unfortunately for his empire and, indeed, all the rest of us.

    Replies: @Beckow

    That’s a big if. I generally discount hopes based on a single personality – as we see with Trump, the ‘state‘ tends to persevere and prevail over an isolated leader.

    Habsburgs failed to manage the Magyars, that’s what destroyed the Empire. There was no way to federate or modernise the Monarchy with Magyars out of control in one-half of it. That failure resulted in the Empire’s collapse. Your belief that Franz Ferdinand would had corrected it is interesting, but totally unsupported by reality – there was not much he could do, and talk is cheap. Habsburgs were weak and wimps don’t get to keep power during times of crisis. I stand by what I wrote.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @Beckow

    In general you are more correct than not about the Habsburgs, but Franz Ferdinand was the exception, which is, incidentally, why he had to die.

    Read up about him: he was the exact contrary of a wimp, and everyone knew that, once emperor, everything was going to change.

    Decades of drift would have been replaced by decisive action on every front, and all of it ruthlessly dedicated to the preservation of the monarchy, of the Catholic religion, and of the hierarchical and hereditary principle, not only in Austria, but in the whole of Europe. Under him, there would never have been a war between the emperors (the destruction of Republican France, on the other hand, would no doubt have been at the back of his mind much of the time).

    But don't take my word for it: if you are seriously interested in knowing more about Austria's (and Europe's) lost hope, then read a good biography of the man. You might start with Gordon Brook-Shepherd, but the memoirs of those who knew and worked with him, mostly published between the wars, give the most vivid picture of his qualities.

    Replies: @Beckow

  144. @songbird
    @Blinky Bill

    Of all the countries with pre-1900 black populations, IMO, India is the most surprising. It would be fascinating to analyze their DNA, especially the admixed ones. I knew of them, but had no idea that they were on the dole.
    I thought India was racist - I am disappointed.

    Honestly, had no idea that were still Asiatic lions. But maybe it makes sense, as perhaps tigers, which are not social, would have trouble hunting elephants. I guess being social is also sort of a curse, and makes it harder to survive in a human-populated environment.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    [MORE]

    Recent advances in genetic analyses have helped shed some light on the ethnogenesis of the Siddi. Genetic genealogy, although a novel tool that uses the genes of modern populations to trace their ethnic and geographic origins, has also helped clarify the possible background of the modern Siddi.

    Y DNA
    A Y-chromosome study by Shah et al. (2011) tested Siddi individuals in India for paternal lineages. The authors observed the E1b1a1-M2 haplogroup, which is frequent among Bantu peoples, in about 42% and 34% of Siddis from Karnataka and Gujarat, respectively. Around 14% of Siddis from Karnataka and 35% of Siddis from Gujarat also belonged to the Sub-Saharan B-M60. The remaining Siddis had Indian associated or Near Eastern-linked clades, including haplogroups P, H, R1a-M17, J2 and L-M20.

    Thangaraj (2009) observed similar, mainly Bantu-linked paternal affinities amongst the Siddi.

    Qamar et al. (2002) analysed Makrani Siddis in Pakistan and found that they instead predominantly carried Indian-associated or Near Eastern-linked haplogroups. R1a1a-M17 (30.30%), J2 (18.18%) and R2 (18.18%) were their most common male lineages. Only around 12% carried Africa-derived clades, which mainly consisted of the archaic haplogroup B-M60, of which they bore the highest frequency of any Pakistani population Underhill et al. (2009) likewise detected a relatively high frequency of R1a1a-M17 (25%) subclade among Makrani Siddis.

    mtDNA Edit
    According to an mtDNA study by Shah et al. (2011), the maternal ancestry of the Siddi consists of a mixture of Bantu-associated haplogroups and Indian-associated haplogroups, reflecting substantial female gene flow from neighbouring Indian populations. About 53% of the Siddis from Gujarat and 24% of the Siddis from Karnataka belonged to various Bantu-derived macro-haplogroup L subclades. The latter mainly consisted of L0 and L2a sublineages associated with Bantu women. The remainder possessed Indian-specific subclades of the Eurasian haplogroups M and N, which points to recent admixture with autochthonous Indian groups.

    Autosomal DNA
    Narang et al. (2011) examined the autosomal DNA of Siddis in India. According to the researchers, about 58% of the Siddis’ ancestry is derived from Bantu peoples. The remainder is associated with local Indo-European-speaking North and Northwest Indian populations, due to recent admixture events.

    Similarly, Shah et al. (2011) observed that Siddis in Gujarat derive 66.90%–70.50% of their ancestry from Bantu forebears, while the Siddis in Karnataka possess 64.80%–74.40% such Southeast African ancestry. The remaining autosomal DNA components in the studied Siddi were mainly associated with local South Asian populations. According to the authors, gene flow between the Siddis’ Bantu ancestors and local Indian populations was also largely unidirectional. They estimate this admixture episode’s time of occurrence at within the past 200 years or eight generations.

    However, Guha et al. (2012) observed few genetic differences between the Makrani of Pakistan and adjacent populations. According to the authors, the genome-wide ancestry of the Makrani was essentially the same as that of the neighboring Indo-European speaking Balochi and Dravidian-speaking Brahui.

    • Thanks: songbird
  145. @Znzn
    Btw, for those criticizing US elites for being AIPAC puppets, what about Putin and his Jewish oligarchs and his bff Netanyahu, so much for Russia being the great hope for counter-Zionist resistance right? Or maybe one believes that all of Putin's Jewish oligarch friends are self-hating Jews?

    Replies: @Ano4, @A123, @AaronB

    This may be news to you, but most nationalist parties in Europe are very pro-Israel and anti-Muslim.

    Anti-Zionism is generally an extreme Leftist position – the people who hate whites and nationalism hate Jews, quelle surprise – and a bizarre extremist faction of the American alt-right that thinks opposing Jewish nationalists who like the West is somehow a great way to get back at extreme Leftist Jews who hate Israel and the West equally.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AaronB

    A prime example where it isn't:

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/1979-03-01/zionist-connection-what-price-peace

    https://www.amazon.com/Zionist-Connection-What-Price-Peace/dp/0396075649

    An earlier and more scholarly take on the subject than a much ballyhooed (at least in some circles) article on the "Jew Taboo", which was picked up by unz.com.

    Replies: @AaronB

  146. @Thorfinnsson
    @AnonFromTN

    Remains to be seen. Are they really going to get rid of the police, or will they simply rebrand the police? Or perhaps they'll announce a grand plan to get rid of the police, only to quietly shelve the plan next year.

    It should also be pointed out that Minneapolis is only one-fifth black. If the city really does eliminate the police, negro pandemonium may well be contained by hmong and hispanic gangs.

    Of course, obviously the fact that abolishing the police is considered a serious proposal in contemporary America is an exceedingly negative indicator for this country's future.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @AnonFromTN

    Of course, obviously the fact that abolishing the police is considered a serious proposal in contemporary America is an exceedingly negative indicator for this country’s future

    It is a negative indicator for the future because it is proof positive of deep-seated insanity. But maybe you are right: the talk will remain just that, the talk. That’s a tradition of both Dem and Rep politicians.

  147. @songbird
    @AnonFromTN


    I did not watch a single movie since Fahrenheit 9/11.
     
    Hollywood easily exceeds Sturgeon's Law. Films are a work of ambition - it takes a lot of people cooperating to make a serious film. Many things can go wrong, and when you add in certain perverse incentives, they rarely go right.

    I only rarely watch very recent films, but the last movie from the West that I enjoyed on some level - it was far from perfect - was They Shall Not Grow Old (2018) - a documentary about WWI. I also watched the movie 1917, but I did not like it. Sometimes, it is interesting to see a movie, just to figure out the reasons that you don't like it.

    I think as human beings, we all need stories. And on occasions where I have to read a lot during the day, the last thing I want to do is crack open a book at night - there's a limit to what the eyes can do. So, I think sometimes it is nice to watch a movie, especially if you sit outside, and have a fire. Sometimes, it is nice to see the films of other countries too - it is almost like traveling there.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonFromTN

    So far I avoid doing reading + writing more than half of my time at work. Some real benchwork is such a relief. Besides, that’s the only thing that gives you instant gratification. Not to mention that in experimental science news only come from the bench: it you got it from your computer, someone already knew it and put it there, so it ain’t new. I prefer books: the stories are better and more varied, and you can read books from different countries. I have to read everything except Russian, English, and Ukrainian in translation, but a good translation preserves the flavor.

  148. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird


    So, I think sometimes it is nice to watch a movie, especially if you sit outside, and have a fire. Sometimes, it is nice to see the films of other countries too – it is almost like traveling there.
     
    Both books and films have their pluses and minuses. I greatly enjoyed the first "Godfather" movie and after reading the novel, felt that the film was lacking in a lot of detail. After re-watching this film again, I came to appreciate the visual and sound accompaniments that couldn't be duplicated within the written script. Also, I sometimes find that while watching a film, especially an older one that I'm not totally enthralled with, I get to see details about the fashions, music, architecture and other historical features of another era that I might not run across anywhere else. It's almost like climbing inside of a time machine!

    Replies: @songbird

    I also enjoyed the first Godfather. Coppola put some nice touches on it, but I sometimes feel he’s given too much credit for it, as people act like he created the story.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    If you haven't read Puzo's novel, by all means do, it'll be well worth your effort. It's beautifully written and includes so much detail that was left out of the movie. It's been a while since I read it, but I remember that many pages, for instance, were devoted to developing the character of Luca Brazzi, the Godfather's enforcer. The descriptions of Sicily (although well represented in the film) are well worth the price of the book all by themselves.

    , @Mikhail
    @songbird

    GF I and II are the best fictional mob movies. GF III fell short. Carlito's Way and a spinoff followup are pretty good, as well as Bronx Tale. The Soprano's is the best fictional mob TV series. The Untouchables TV series is a mix of fiction and reality.

    Some pretty good mob movies based on actual events. Goodfellas, American Gangsta and Casino come to mind.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Mikhail
    @songbird

    Donnie Brasco is another good mob movie based on reality. The French Connection qualifies as such as well. French Connection II is well done, but fictional.

  149. @AaronB
    @Znzn

    This may be news to you, but most nationalist parties in Europe are very pro-Israel and anti-Muslim.

    Anti-Zionism is generally an extreme Leftist position - the people who hate whites and nationalism hate Jews, quelle surprise - and a bizarre extremist faction of the American alt-right that thinks opposing Jewish nationalists who like the West is somehow a great way to get back at extreme Leftist Jews who hate Israel and the West equally.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    A prime example where it isn’t:

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/1979-03-01/zionist-connection-what-price-peace

    An earlier and more scholarly take on the subject than a much ballyhooed (at least in some circles) article on the “Jew Taboo“, which was picked up by unz.com.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    @Mikhail

    Alfred Lilenthal was an American Jew of a secular leftist stripe.

    He seems to have believed in the European project of a secular society divested of any "romantic" national sentiment and based entirely on reasonable guidelines.

    That's a defensible position, insofar as one applies that to all nations without discrimination. And Lilenthal seems to have done so - he does not seem to be calling for a Palestinian state.

    But he - and his type - are dead now.

    I may disagree, but I don't object to people who say there should be no nations in the world, and apply this consistently and fairly to include Israel but without any special focus on Israel. I do object to those who apply this only to Israel, or disproportionately to Israel. Then it is clearly a mask for other motives.

    Today, anti-Zionism is restricted to the extreme anti-white Left, and a subset of the American alt-right who want to punish liberal Jews by opposing nationalist Jews, because that makes sense somehow.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  150. @Mikhail
    @AaronB

    A prime example where it isn't:

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/1979-03-01/zionist-connection-what-price-peace

    https://www.amazon.com/Zionist-Connection-What-Price-Peace/dp/0396075649

    An earlier and more scholarly take on the subject than a much ballyhooed (at least in some circles) article on the "Jew Taboo", which was picked up by unz.com.

    Replies: @AaronB

    Alfred Lilenthal was an American Jew of a secular leftist stripe.

    He seems to have believed in the European project of a secular society divested of any “romantic” national sentiment and based entirely on reasonable guidelines.

    That’s a defensible position, insofar as one applies that to all nations without discrimination. And Lilenthal seems to have done so – he does not seem to be calling for a Palestinian state.

    But he – and his type – are dead now.

    I may disagree, but I don’t object to people who say there should be no nations in the world, and apply this consistently and fairly to include Israel but without any special focus on Israel. I do object to those who apply this only to Israel, or disproportionately to Israel. Then it is clearly a mask for other motives.

    Today, anti-Zionism is restricted to the extreme anti-white Left, and a subset of the American alt-right who want to punish liberal Jews by opposing nationalist Jews, because that makes sense somehow.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AaronB

    Not sure how much to the left (if at all) he was. Definitely to the right of Trots Lenny Brenner.

    On your categories, don't forget the Satmar Hasidim.

  151. @AaronB
    @Mikhail

    Alfred Lilenthal was an American Jew of a secular leftist stripe.

    He seems to have believed in the European project of a secular society divested of any "romantic" national sentiment and based entirely on reasonable guidelines.

    That's a defensible position, insofar as one applies that to all nations without discrimination. And Lilenthal seems to have done so - he does not seem to be calling for a Palestinian state.

    But he - and his type - are dead now.

    I may disagree, but I don't object to people who say there should be no nations in the world, and apply this consistently and fairly to include Israel but without any special focus on Israel. I do object to those who apply this only to Israel, or disproportionately to Israel. Then it is clearly a mask for other motives.

    Today, anti-Zionism is restricted to the extreme anti-white Left, and a subset of the American alt-right who want to punish liberal Jews by opposing nationalist Jews, because that makes sense somehow.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    Not sure how much to the left (if at all) he was. Definitely to the right of Trots Lenny Brenner.

    On your categories, don’t forget the Satmar Hasidim.

  152. @Passer by
    @Jaakko Raipala

    I have another way of polling. I see Confederare Monuments dropping like flies all over the US, including in the Southern States, and no resistance to this. No resistance in the Southern States. In Alabama. Local police steps down. Do you know what that means? Cuckold land.

    Newsflash

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJ7FsNPoWU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n9TZXh_fcY

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5927703.html

    Replies: @Menes

    I see Confederate Monuments dropping like flies all over the US, including in the Southern States, and no resistance to this. No resistance in the Southern States. In Alabama. Local police steps down. Do you know what that means? Cuckold land.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/06/us-marines-confederate-flag-ban-meaning/3167431001/

    The U.S. Marine Corps on Friday ordered all public displays of the Confederate flag removed, a ban that extends to bumper stickers, clothing, mugs, posters and more.

    The order directs Marine Corps commanders to find and remove displays of the flag in “work places, common-access areas, and public areas” on base.

    “The Confederate battle flag has all too often been co-opted by violent extremist and racist groups whose divisive beliefs have no place in our Corps,” a notice posted by the U.S. Marines on Twitter says.

    Around the U.S., demonstrations over the death of George Floyd and racial inequality have sparked both protesters and city officials to remove, deface or announce plans to take down many Confederate memorials.

    Perhaps most notably: The statue of Robert E. Lee has that has towered over Richmond, Viriginia, for more than 100 years will come down “as soon as possible,” Gov. Ralph Northam announced.

  153. @N9
    @Dieter Kief

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/gulna2/i_used_to_teach_in_a_black_inner_city_school/

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Kent Nationalist, @Menes

    I am sure this guy is lying or exaggerating. Why would black teachers say “their culture” about black students? The guy is clearly a racist. The kids sensed it and gave him a hard time for it. We got a few white teachers here at Unz.com who are WNs as well. You can be sure they screwed with their black and hispanic students.

    Any semblance of racial hatred should be grounds for dismissal for both teachers, police, judges etc, all professions disproportionately dominated by whites. I think teachers are ~90% white.

    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Menes

    Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between.

    Teaching can be a wonderful experience in the scenario of having bright, well behaved and interested students. Quite different when faced with more of the opposite circumstances.

    , @HallParvey
    @Menes

    We now have the answer to the question, "Can't we all just get along". And it is NO.

    Unless we, as a nation, are willing to accept ongoing racial unrest with occasional outbursts of riots and looting, the answer is no.

    After 50 years of brainwashing attempts by various government and religious entities, many of us fail to accept the gospel of equality. The existence of this site and others like it are testaments to that failure. Those of us who comment, those who lurk but do not, we are the deplorables. We are escapees from the brainwashing.

    So, is there a solution? Yes, but it will not please everyone. Basically, we have to accept the fact of inequality. We start from there.

    Equality before the written law is a noble concept. Unfortunately, written law is open to interpretation by judges. And judges, no matter how honorable, are only human.

    , @AnonFromTN
    @Menes


    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.
     
    What about brain or heart surgeons? Or airline pilots? I sincerely wish a URM surgeon to operate on you. If you survive, by any chance, I wish your flight back to be operated by a URM pilot. Let God sort you out.

    Replies: @A123, @Menes

  154. @Europe Europa
    @anonymous coward

    Actually Protestantism is the purest Christianity. It's Catholicism they're "protesting" about, and most Catholics call themselves "Catholic" before "Christian".

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Menes

    Actually Protestantism is the purest Christianity. It’s Catholicism they’re “protesting” about, and most Catholics call themselves “Catholic” before “Christian”.

    The purest Christianity would be the Teachings of Jesus. Not the Sacrifice of Jesus.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Menes


    The purest Christianity would be the Teachings of Jesus.
     
    Christ had no 'Teachings'. He came to found a Church, not to teach.
  155. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    I also enjoyed the first Godfather. Coppola put some nice touches on it, but I sometimes feel he's given too much credit for it, as people act like he created the story.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail, @Mikhail

    If you haven’t read Puzo’s novel, by all means do, it’ll be well worth your effort. It’s beautifully written and includes so much detail that was left out of the movie. It’s been a while since I read it, but I remember that many pages, for instance, were devoted to developing the character of Luca Brazzi, the Godfather’s enforcer. The descriptions of Sicily (although well represented in the film) are well worth the price of the book all by themselves.

  156. @Ano4
    @Znzn

    I think this is too extreme an approach to the Zionist and Jewish problem in general.

    If problem there is.

    I personally don't care about either Zionism or Arab nationalism (arguably a thing of the past).

    For me both Semitic groups deserve each other.

    I find both equally interesting sometimes, obnoxious and annoying at other times.

    Now about Russian Jewish Oligarchs, Jews were the group that was the better organized to profit from the fall of the USSR.

    Many of Soviet Jews were connected to both the shadow economy of the early 80ies Soviet Union, the organized crime (Russian Mafia slang is actually nearly 50% Yiddish in origin) and to outside funding through the diaspora.

    Yet the vast majority of them simply chose to immigrate to Israel and North America.

    Those who stayed behind to become Oligarchs were truly outstanding individuals, that does not mean that they were good people, they were ruthless scum, but they were also outstanding.

    They were ready to take the most from the unfolding catastrophe and they did just that.

    While many Russians were trying to figure out what was really happening, Jewish Oligarchs were making their first millions.

    And while becoming rich and powerful they came to work with corrupt former KGB, military and Nomenklatura people of different ethnic groups of RusFed.

    That is the matrix of the early 90ies in Russia.

    Putin is simply a direct byproduct of this matrix.

    He helped to normalize the situation compared to Yeltsin years.

    But he is not a "White Russian Tsar" some have wet dreams about.

    And I don't think he is a "Shabbos goy" either.

    He is just doing what the current Russian elites think needs been done: consolidating their power and transferring their ill acquired wealth to their descendants.

    Replies: @another anon

    Many of Soviet Jews were connected to both the shadow economy of the early 80ies Soviet Union, the organized crime (Russian Mafia slang is actually nearly 50% Yiddish in origin) and to outside funding through the diaspora.

    Yet the vast majority of them simply chose to immigrate to Israel and North America.

    There is nothing special about Jews – in the nineties, everyone who could left the sinking ship of Soviet Union as fast as possible.

    Soviet Jews, Soviet Germans, people who bought birth certificates of Jewish or German ancestors, skilled professionals (like Karlin’s family), mail order brides, asylum seekers of all kind, etc, etc.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @another anon

    Ethnic Russians (Великороссы) preferred to stay home.

    I know several talented people who suffered abject poverty during Yeltsin years, spoke a decent English, had a professional experience that might have led to rapid employment in the West, but preferred to stay in their home country.

    When you know the milieu of the "Russian Emigrants" in the West from the inside, you know that the proportion of Ethnic Russians that immigrated to the West is lower than their share of the Russian population.

    It was the exact opposite with Jews.

    Many Jews simply didn't consider Russia as their real home, if you understand the expression "эта страна" you know what I am talking about.

    This is of course due to the fact that the majority of Jews moved beyond the pale of settlement and into Russia proper only after 1917.

    Three generations were not enough to make them Russians.

    And when Soviet identity fell out of fashion, they started looking for the exit.

    As soon as the early 1960ies.

    That is why by the end of 1960ies people in Russia started talking about "третья евмиграция".

  157. @Menes
    @N9

    I am sure this guy is lying or exaggerating. Why would black teachers say "their culture" about black students? The guy is clearly a racist. The kids sensed it and gave him a hard time for it. We got a few white teachers here at Unz.com who are WNs as well. You can be sure they screwed with their black and hispanic students.

    Any semblance of racial hatred should be grounds for dismissal for both teachers, police, judges etc, all professions disproportionately dominated by whites. I think teachers are ~90% white.

    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @HallParvey, @AnonFromTN

    Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between.

    Teaching can be a wonderful experience in the scenario of having bright, well behaved and interested students. Quite different when faced with more of the opposite circumstances.

  158. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    I also enjoyed the first Godfather. Coppola put some nice touches on it, but I sometimes feel he's given too much credit for it, as people act like he created the story.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail, @Mikhail

    GF I and II are the best fictional mob movies. GF III fell short. Carlito’s Way and a spinoff followup are pretty good, as well as Bronx Tale. The Soprano’s is the best fictional mob TV series. The Untouchables TV series is a mix of fiction and reality.

    Some pretty good mob movies based on actual events. Goodfellas, American Gangsta and Casino come to mind.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mikhail

    Godfather II was a well-made film, but I did not enjoy it as much as the first one. Two things: 1.) I hate a narrative that is broken up with flashbacks, and 2.) it was, IMO, a darker film. A bit too dark for me. I don't want to spoil it by saying why.

    I remember liking The Untouchables movie, though I never saw the old show, and I know the movie wasn't exactly true to life.

  159. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    I also enjoyed the first Godfather. Coppola put some nice touches on it, but I sometimes feel he's given too much credit for it, as people act like he created the story.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail, @Mikhail

    Donnie Brasco is another good mob movie based on reality. The French Connection qualifies as such as well. French Connection II is well done, but fictional.

  160. @another anon
    @HallParvey


    Protestants too? And they all disagree vehemently about what constitutes Christianty. If any one of them is right, all the others are wrong. Perhaps they are all wrong. Which means their eternity insurance policy might be fraudulent. Oops.
     
    The only true Christians are Jehova's Witnesses.

    Poor and humble
    Peaceful and nonviolent
    Preaching the Gospel and proselytizing everywhere
    Not interested in politics
    Never bowing to any satanic idols, including national flags and anthems
    Awaiting end of the world every day
    Always ready to die for their faith

    The closest thing to first century apostolic Christianity you are going to find on this Earth.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/37/63/863763406f7ccef06ac4cf202ebf72e5.jpg

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist, @anonymous coward

    Being Christian isn’t about good behavior. You’re either a member of a Church founded by Christ, or you’re not. End of story; that’s what the word ‘Christian’ means. You trying to assign moral qualifications to it is just squid ink.

  161. @Menes
    @Europe Europa


    Actually Protestantism is the purest Christianity. It’s Catholicism they’re “protesting” about, and most Catholics call themselves “Catholic” before “Christian”.
     
    The purest Christianity would be the Teachings of Jesus. Not the Sacrifice of Jesus.

    Replies: @anonymous coward

    The purest Christianity would be the Teachings of Jesus.

    Christ had no ‘Teachings’. He came to found a Church, not to teach.

  162. @AP
    @Swedish Family

    What a great post.

    In terms of Soviet cuisine, there were some bright spots. My wife has youthful memories of Georgian food in some resorts on the Georgian coast, Prague bakery on Arbat, and that the central committee’s dacha provided some incredible meals. So by the 80s, in selected places, one could find fancy things to eat.

    I had some very good “high Soviet” cuisine at the house of writers in Moscow in 2018.

    Replies: @AP, @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    Georgian cuisine is overrated because it was the only exotic cuisine boomers stashing rotting potatoes in their basement could have.
    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it’s the apex of culinary genius.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    Georgian cuisine is overrated because it was the only exotic cuisine boomers stashing rotting potatoes in their basement could have.
     
    False. These fashions come and go, and have for centuries. The under-30 crowd in Russia are great fans of Georgian cuisine right now, and it's certainly not because of boomer influence.

    Georgia is perennially popular because it's exotically non-European while still white and Christian. (Thus safe and civilized.)

    Replies: @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive, @Thulean Friend

    , @AP
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    I’ve been to more and better restaurants than you have, and can say that Georgian cuisine is pretty good.

    Also, Russian boomers don’t go out to eat much. The numerous Georgian restaurants around “my” neighborhood in Moscow (by m. Tverskaya) are mostly full of young hipsters.

    , @Blinky Bill
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it’s the apex of culinary genius.
     
    Only the Soviets truly experienced the apex of East Asian culinary genius.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Korean-style_carrot.jpg

    Морковь по-корейски

    The West didn't know what it missed !

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Морковь_по-корейски

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Lars Porsena, @Ano4

  163. Ano4 says:
    @another anon
    @Ano4


    Many of Soviet Jews were connected to both the shadow economy of the early 80ies Soviet Union, the organized crime (Russian Mafia slang is actually nearly 50% Yiddish in origin) and to outside funding through the diaspora.

    Yet the vast majority of them simply chose to immigrate to Israel and North America.
     
    There is nothing special about Jews - in the nineties, everyone who could left the sinking ship of Soviet Union as fast as possible.

    Soviet Jews, Soviet Germans, people who bought birth certificates of Jewish or German ancestors, skilled professionals (like Karlin's family), mail order brides, asylum seekers of all kind, etc, etc.

    Replies: @Ano4

    Ethnic Russians (Великороссы) preferred to stay home.

    I know several talented people who suffered abject poverty during Yeltsin years, spoke a decent English, had a professional experience that might have led to rapid employment in the West, but preferred to stay in their home country.

    When you know the milieu of the “Russian Emigrants” in the West from the inside, you know that the proportion of Ethnic Russians that immigrated to the West is lower than their share of the Russian population.

    It was the exact opposite with Jews.

    Many Jews simply didn’t consider Russia as their real home, if you understand the expression “эта страна” you know what I am talking about.

    This is of course due to the fact that the majority of Jews moved beyond the pale of settlement and into Russia proper only after 1917.

    Three generations were not enough to make them Russians.

    And when Soviet identity fell out of fashion, they started looking for the exit.

    As soon as the early 1960ies.

    That is why by the end of 1960ies people in Russia started talking about “третья евмиграция”.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  164. Ano4 says:

    An interesting series of articles about AI is currently being published by Asia times:

    The meanings of essential concepts, as they actually occur in human cognitive activity, cannot be adequately defined or represented in formal, combinatorial terms. They cannot be stored in a computer base or incorporated into a software architecture.

    The pioneers of artificial intelligence should have recognized this fact, even without the 1930s results of Kurt Gödel in mathematical logic, with which von Neumann, Turing and others were thoroughly familiar. But Gödel’s arguments leave no reasonable doubt concerning the inexhaustibility of meaning, even for such supposedly simple concepts of mathematics as that of a “finite set” or “truth” as it applies to propositions of mathematics.

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/ais-future-lies-in-its-truly-human-past/

    Which begs the question: what is the impact of the current Deep Learning technologies on COVID-19 decision making?

    Have Deep Learning algorithms been used, either in China or the West, to inform the decision making about quarantines and lockdowns?

    • Thanks: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Ano4


    On December 5, 1947, Einstein and Morgenstern accompanied Gödel to his U.S. citizenship exam, where they acted as witnesses. Gödel had confided in them that he had discovered an inconsistency in the U.S. Constitution that could allow the U.S. to become a dictatorship. Einstein and Morgenstern were concerned that their friend's unpredictable behavior might jeopardize his application. The judge turned out to be Phillip Forman, who knew Einstein and had administered the oath at Einstein's own citizenship hearing. Everything went smoothly until Forman happened to ask Gödel if he thought a dictatorship like the Nazi regime could happen in the U.S. Gödel then started to explain his discovery to Forman. Forman understood what was going on, cut Gödel off, and moved the hearing on to other questions and a routine conclusion.

    Replies: @Ano4

    , @Dacian Julien Soros
    @Ano4

    No Artificial Intelligence achievement would be possible without CRISPRing the IoT on the blockchain.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  165. @Beckow
    @Old Palo Altan

    That's a big if. I generally discount hopes based on a single personality - as we see with Trump, the 'state' tends to persevere and prevail over an isolated leader.

    Habsburgs failed to manage the Magyars, that's what destroyed the Empire. There was no way to federate or modernise the Monarchy with Magyars out of control in one-half of it. That failure resulted in the Empire's collapse. Your belief that Franz Ferdinand would had corrected it is interesting, but totally unsupported by reality - there was not much he could do, and talk is cheap. Habsburgs were weak and wimps don't get to keep power during times of crisis. I stand by what I wrote.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

    In general you are more correct than not about the Habsburgs, but Franz Ferdinand was the exception, which is, incidentally, why he had to die.

    Read up about him: he was the exact contrary of a wimp, and everyone knew that, once emperor, everything was going to change.

    Decades of drift would have been replaced by decisive action on every front, and all of it ruthlessly dedicated to the preservation of the monarchy, of the Catholic religion, and of the hierarchical and hereditary principle, not only in Austria, but in the whole of Europe. Under him, there would never have been a war between the emperors (the destruction of Republican France, on the other hand, would no doubt have been at the back of his mind much of the time).

    But don’t take my word for it: if you are seriously interested in knowing more about Austria’s (and Europe’s) lost hope, then read a good biography of the man. You might start with Gordon Brook-Shepherd, but the memoirs of those who knew and worked with him, mostly published between the wars, give the most vivid picture of his qualities.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Old Palo Altan

    I know all there is to know about Franz Ferdinand, the man (and the music band). He had ambition and energy. He also made mistakes - going to freshly annexed Bosnia to do a military exercise on Serbian national day was a stupid provocation (Bosnia pre-WWII genocide was majority Serb).

    My point is not about him and his plans. My point is that an individual can hardly change the underlying realities. There was a reason Habsburg Empire was the way it was - it was a hodge-podge of feuding nations and badly defined borders. The word 'compromise' in the creation of dual monarchy in 1867 was there for a reason. The center (Vienna) simply couldn't control the Magyars and their uber-nationalist ambitions. That is assuming that they wanted to control it.

    There was no way around the fact that Slavic nations formed almost 1/2 of the Habsburg Empire, and that giving them the required representation directly conflicted with Magyar, and also German ambitions. You can't square a circle, even Franz Ferdinand had he lived couldn't do it. Trianon outcome was built into it - it ended up as bad as it did for Austrians and Magyars because they stupidly resisted and fought a losing fight far too long. That's the lesson for today. And the fact that leaders have less room to manuever than we like to pretend.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

  166. I find it strange how Americans go to Quebec or certain colonial-looking parts of Mexico for a “taste of Europe”, totally ignoring that they’re just as European as either of those places. I don’t really get that.

    It’s like they see Mexican culture and Quebecois culture as semi-European, while they don’t see their own as European at all. I’ve heard many Americans say words to the effect of “Going to Quebec is like going to France”, yet I doubt they would say the US is like going to England.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Europe Europa


    It’s like they see Mexican culture and Quebecois culture as semi-European, while they don’t see their own as European at all. I’ve heard many Americans say words to the effect of “Going to Quebec is like going to France”, yet I doubt they would say the US is like going to England.
     
    Because Quebec City looks like France but neither a Wal Mart parking lot, nor Manhattan, look like England.

    Ultimately, of course, they are looking not just for places populated by Europeans but for places that look old, that therefore were built by Europeans at a time when beauty had a greater value.

    https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/why-is-the-modern-world-so-ugly/

    Why is the Modern World So Ugly?

    One of the great generalisations we can make about the modern world is that it is, to an extraordinary degree, an ugly world. If we were to show an ancestor from 250 years ago around our cities and suburbs, they would be amazed at our technology, impressed by our wealth, stunned by our medical advances – and shocked and disbelieving at the horrors we had managed to build. Societies that are, in most respects, hugely more advanced than those of the past have managed to construct urban environments more dispiriting, chaotic and distasteful than anything humanity has ever known.

    To find our way out of the paradox, we need to understand its origins. There are at least six reasons for the ugliness:

    i: The War on ‘Beauty’

    Since the dawn of construction, it was understood that the task of an architect was not only to make a building serviceable, but also to render it beautiful. That would involve a host of manoeuvres above and beyond pure material necessity. In the name of beauty, an architect might add a band of coloured tiles above the windows or a line of sculpted flowers over the door, they might try to create symmetry in the front facade, or carefully ensure that the windows got proportionally smaller on every storey.

    Even if the building was a practical one, like an aqueduct or a factory, architects would strive to give it a maximally pleasing appearance. The Romans understood that a water pumping system might be as beautiful as a temple, the early Victorians felt that even a factory could have some of the aesthetic properties of an elegant country house, the Milanese knew that a shopping arcade could carry some of the ambitions of a cathedral.

    Etc. etc.

    (linked article has nice pictures)

    Replies: @Europe Europa

    , @Lars Porsena
    @Europe Europa

    What the US looks like by and large:

    http://josephlorren.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/hometown-1-1024x768.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VSmarKPsXF8/TUOgNj6wSzI/AAAAAAAAAX4/J8EXv3lEADA/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/fastfood+places.jpg

    Quebec:

    http://i2.wp.com/justingoesplaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/20141225_105752_1.jpg

    Mexico:

    http://internationalliving.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/San-Miguel-Mexico.jpg
    https://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-photo-campeche-city-in-mexico-colonial-architecture-276448058.jpg
    https://cdn.theculturetrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/chol.jpg

    Replies: @AP

  167. So, Anatoly, we never heard your opinion on Yuri Bezmenov. At least not that I know of. Do you think he lies, just noticed the writing on the wall, or speaks the truth and the USSR did a martyrdom moment?

  168. AP says:
    @Europe Europa
    I find it strange how Americans go to Quebec or certain colonial-looking parts of Mexico for a "taste of Europe", totally ignoring that they're just as European as either of those places. I don't really get that.

    It's like they see Mexican culture and Quebecois culture as semi-European, while they don't see their own as European at all. I've heard many Americans say words to the effect of "Going to Quebec is like going to France", yet I doubt they would say the US is like going to England.

    Replies: @AP, @Lars Porsena

    It’s like they see Mexican culture and Quebecois culture as semi-European, while they don’t see their own as European at all. I’ve heard many Americans say words to the effect of “Going to Quebec is like going to France”, yet I doubt they would say the US is like going to England.

    Because Quebec City looks like France but neither a Wal Mart parking lot, nor Manhattan, look like England.

    Ultimately, of course, they are looking not just for places populated by Europeans but for places that look old, that therefore were built by Europeans at a time when beauty had a greater value.

    https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/why-is-the-modern-world-so-ugly/

    Why is the Modern World So Ugly?

    One of the great generalisations we can make about the modern world is that it is, to an extraordinary degree, an ugly world. If we were to show an ancestor from 250 years ago around our cities and suburbs, they would be amazed at our technology, impressed by our wealth, stunned by our medical advances – and shocked and disbelieving at the horrors we had managed to build. Societies that are, in most respects, hugely more advanced than those of the past have managed to construct urban environments more dispiriting, chaotic and distasteful than anything humanity has ever known.

    To find our way out of the paradox, we need to understand its origins. There are at least six reasons for the ugliness:

    i: The War on ‘Beauty’

    Since the dawn of construction, it was understood that the task of an architect was not only to make a building serviceable, but also to render it beautiful. That would involve a host of manoeuvres above and beyond pure material necessity. In the name of beauty, an architect might add a band of coloured tiles above the windows or a line of sculpted flowers over the door, they might try to create symmetry in the front facade, or carefully ensure that the windows got proportionally smaller on every storey.

    Even if the building was a practical one, like an aqueduct or a factory, architects would strive to give it a maximally pleasing appearance. The Romans understood that a water pumping system might be as beautiful as a temple, the early Victorians felt that even a factory could have some of the aesthetic properties of an elegant country house, the Milanese knew that a shopping arcade could carry some of the ambitions of a cathedral.

    Etc. etc.

    (linked article has nice pictures)

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    @AP


    Because Quebec City looks like France but neither a Wal Mart parking lot, nor Manhattan, look like England.

    Ultimately, of course, they are looking not just for places populated by Europeans but for places that look old, that therefore were built by Europeans at a time when beauty had a greater value.
     
    Why do you think Quebec and many Latin American countries have retained old world European architecture to a far greater extent than the US and Anglo Canada has?

    I notice that even the modern urban design of many Latin American countries looks much more European than it does North American.

    Replies: @AP

  169. Sovok Lyt is still rabid:

    https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2020/06/06/reminiscences-of-soviet-history/#comments

    As of this posting here, a follow-up at the above link has yet to appear in reply to Lyt’s hypocritically absurd comments about the NTS.

  170. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive
    @AP

    Georgian cuisine is overrated because it was the only exotic cuisine boomers stashing rotting potatoes in their basement could have.
    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it's the apex of culinary genius.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @AP, @Blinky Bill

    Georgian cuisine is overrated because it was the only exotic cuisine boomers stashing rotting potatoes in their basement could have.

    False. These fashions come and go, and have for centuries. The under-30 crowd in Russia are great fans of Georgian cuisine right now, and it’s certainly not because of boomer influence.

    Georgia is perennially popular because it’s exotically non-European while still white and Christian. (Thus safe and civilized.)

    • Replies: @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive
    @anonymous coward


    One thing is true, though: the American obsession with ‘cuisine’ and food in general is absolute cuckoldry and a sign of a dying people. Russians would never admit that they’re eating ‘cuisine’ instead of good nutrition balanced for work and health.

     

    - you, literally 4 comments ago.

    a) Obsession with cuisine is absolute cuckoldry
    b) Russians appreciate Georgian cuisine because it's good.
    c) Russians are not cuckolds
    Pick 2.

    Replies: @anonymous coward

    , @Thulean Friend
    @anonymous coward

    I have tried precisely two Georgian joints in Stockholm and can vouch for the fact that their bread with cheese is quite good, but their main fare was quite average. Not bad, not great. My favourite cuisine is broadly Middle Eastern and I am partial to Korean as well, wheras African food that I've tried (Ethiopian, Ghanaian) was surprisingly bland. Peruvian food is very good, though, likely in part because so much of their cuisine is focused around seafood which I enjoy greatly, but that is often very polarising. My experience is that people either really like or loathe seafood with few reactions in-between.

  171. @anonymous coward
    @HallParvey

    Wow, good thing you're not at all gullible, not at all, no way, and here spending your precious time teaching us about charlatans!

    Replies: @HallParvey

    You are, indeed, blessed.

  172. @anonymous coward
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    Georgian cuisine is overrated because it was the only exotic cuisine boomers stashing rotting potatoes in their basement could have.
     
    False. These fashions come and go, and have for centuries. The under-30 crowd in Russia are great fans of Georgian cuisine right now, and it's certainly not because of boomer influence.

    Georgia is perennially popular because it's exotically non-European while still white and Christian. (Thus safe and civilized.)

    Replies: @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive, @Thulean Friend

    One thing is true, though: the American obsession with ‘cuisine’ and food in general is absolute cuckoldry and a sign of a dying people. Russians would never admit that they’re eating ‘cuisine’ instead of good nutrition balanced for work and health.

    – you, literally 4 comments ago.

    a) Obsession with cuisine is absolute cuckoldry
    b) Russians appreciate Georgian cuisine because it’s good.
    c) Russians are not cuckolds
    Pick 2.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    a) Obsession with cuisine is absolute cuckoldry
    b) Russians appreciate Georgian cuisine because it’s good.
    c) Russians are not cuckolds
     
    The 30-minus demographic in Russia is full of cucks, yes. (But that's part of being young and dumb, they'll grow up eventually.)

    A thing you need to understand: Russia still has a 'normative culture'; that is, despite your personal failings and weaknesses there is still a clear-cut understanding of a measure of 'Russianness' that you must at least try to live up to.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

  173. @anonymous coward
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    Georgian cuisine is overrated because it was the only exotic cuisine boomers stashing rotting potatoes in their basement could have.
     
    False. These fashions come and go, and have for centuries. The under-30 crowd in Russia are great fans of Georgian cuisine right now, and it's certainly not because of boomer influence.

    Georgia is perennially popular because it's exotically non-European while still white and Christian. (Thus safe and civilized.)

    Replies: @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive, @Thulean Friend

    I have tried precisely two Georgian joints in Stockholm and can vouch for the fact that their bread with cheese is quite good, but their main fare was quite average. Not bad, not great. My favourite cuisine is broadly Middle Eastern and I am partial to Korean as well, wheras African food that I’ve tried (Ethiopian, Ghanaian) was surprisingly bland. Peruvian food is very good, though, likely in part because so much of their cuisine is focused around seafood which I enjoy greatly, but that is often very polarising. My experience is that people either really like or loathe seafood with few reactions in-between.

  174. @Old Palo Altan
    @Beckow

    In general you are more correct than not about the Habsburgs, but Franz Ferdinand was the exception, which is, incidentally, why he had to die.

    Read up about him: he was the exact contrary of a wimp, and everyone knew that, once emperor, everything was going to change.

    Decades of drift would have been replaced by decisive action on every front, and all of it ruthlessly dedicated to the preservation of the monarchy, of the Catholic religion, and of the hierarchical and hereditary principle, not only in Austria, but in the whole of Europe. Under him, there would never have been a war between the emperors (the destruction of Republican France, on the other hand, would no doubt have been at the back of his mind much of the time).

    But don't take my word for it: if you are seriously interested in knowing more about Austria's (and Europe's) lost hope, then read a good biography of the man. You might start with Gordon Brook-Shepherd, but the memoirs of those who knew and worked with him, mostly published between the wars, give the most vivid picture of his qualities.

    Replies: @Beckow

    I know all there is to know about Franz Ferdinand, the man (and the music band). He had ambition and energy. He also made mistakes – going to freshly annexed Bosnia to do a military exercise on Serbian national day was a stupid provocation (Bosnia pre-WWII genocide was majority Serb).

    My point is not about him and his plans. My point is that an individual can hardly change the underlying realities. There was a reason Habsburg Empire was the way it was – it was a hodge-podge of feuding nations and badly defined borders. The word ‘compromise‘ in the creation of dual monarchy in 1867 was there for a reason. The center (Vienna) simply couldn’t control the Magyars and their uber-nationalist ambitions. That is assuming that they wanted to control it.

    There was no way around the fact that Slavic nations formed almost 1/2 of the Habsburg Empire, and that giving them the required representation directly conflicted with Magyar, and also German ambitions. You can’t square a circle, even Franz Ferdinand had he lived couldn’t do it. Trianon outcome was built into it – it ended up as bad as it did for Austrians and Magyars because they stupidly resisted and fought a losing fight far too long. That’s the lesson for today. And the fact that leaders have less room to manuever than we like to pretend.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @Beckow

    "I know all there is to know about Franz Ferdinand".

    No, you know all you want to know about him, and that, quite evidently, is precious little.

    Replies: @Beckow

  175. @Toronto Russian
    @Europe Europa


    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.
     
    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! "
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven't, it's beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it's written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don't get me started on the "tundra fever" of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/650760/650760_original.jpg

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/651623/651623_original.jpg

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You'd think only "our man+foreign woman" couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1338587/1338587_original.jpg

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.
     
    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Gowro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AP, @Mikhail, @Inselaffen, @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times.

    In a globalised world, with nukes increasingly common, military conquest is no longer necessary. Cultural victory combined with economic domination is more than sufficient. I’ve noticed a significant increase in Swedish men mixing with brown and even black women over the past 2-3 years. Swedish man/East Asian woman is so common I barely even register it anymore, it has become part of the bas relief. Anecdotally, more Swedish men are in mixed relationships that I can see than women.

    Of course, this is probably partly the Stockholm bubble. As real estate costs have risen to very elevated levels and are unlikely to come down, there is a great churning among people who would want to move here. That means more intelligent 2nd gen immigrants and a great selective pressure on 1st gen migrants as well. Intelligence is correlated with liberalism, and a greater propensity to mix.

    Additionally, the differences between the genders is much greater among non-Europeans than among Swedes in the educational outcomes. This gives a relative surplus of increasingly educated 20-something women with far fewer male potential partners from their own peer group. Given the rise of assortive mating, this means many more women are simply going to look outside their group than ‘dating down’.

    I have mixed feelings about the hypothesis that big cities in the West will become islands in of themselves. I think at some point, you can’t cut yourself off from the rest of society. The greater polity won’t accept a Singapore-like existence for the capital cities in perpetuity. But the radically different conditions will likely go on for quite a while, given that this is where the elite lives and these conditions shape their social reality, their Weltanschaaung as it were.

  176. @Menes
    @N9

    I am sure this guy is lying or exaggerating. Why would black teachers say "their culture" about black students? The guy is clearly a racist. The kids sensed it and gave him a hard time for it. We got a few white teachers here at Unz.com who are WNs as well. You can be sure they screwed with their black and hispanic students.

    Any semblance of racial hatred should be grounds for dismissal for both teachers, police, judges etc, all professions disproportionately dominated by whites. I think teachers are ~90% white.

    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @HallParvey, @AnonFromTN

    We now have the answer to the question, “Can’t we all just get along”. And it is NO.

    Unless we, as a nation, are willing to accept ongoing racial unrest with occasional outbursts of riots and looting, the answer is no.

    After 50 years of brainwashing attempts by various government and religious entities, many of us fail to accept the gospel of equality. The existence of this site and others like it are testaments to that failure. Those of us who comment, those who lurk but do not, we are the deplorables. We are escapees from the brainwashing.

    So, is there a solution? Yes, but it will not please everyone. Basically, we have to accept the fact of inequality. We start from there.

    Equality before the written law is a noble concept. Unfortunately, written law is open to interpretation by judges. And judges, no matter how honorable, are only human.

  177. Corrupt Rosenstein and Jewish Power over America

    Elites are rotten, but the people are dumb enough to allow this

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/ajHnm-D0VVE/

  178. @Toronto Russian
    @Europe Europa


    I find it bizarre how many on the right seem to support race mixing.
     
    BY THE old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay! "
    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mandalay.htm

    Kipling was as right wing as it gets (to all: read the whole poem if you haven't, it's beautiful, although the Victorian London working-class dialect it's written in is hard to understand). Spanish conquistadors who served God and their King married Aztec and Incan ladies without reservations as long as they were Catholic. And don't get me started on the "tundra fever" of Orthodox Russian Cossacks that produced at least two mixed ethnicities: Sakhalyar and Kamchadal.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/650760/650760_original.jpg

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/byzantine_way/20964492/651623/651623_original.jpg

    A conqueror and explorer mixing with native girls was an emblem of power since ancient times. You'd think only "our man+foreign woman" couple was accepted? An American newspaper in 1903 published a hoax about a lady called Emilia Brown who married the Emperor of Korea.
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1338587/1338587_original.jpg

    The hoax lived for 10 years in both American and European press. The reaction of the public in that conservative, pre-woman suffrage and pre-racial equality era was:

    The American public, especially young women, was fascinated by the turn in life of a simple American girl, the luxury and splendor of her new position.

    Life in a palace with a 400-year history, surrounded by 500 security guards and 2,000 servants, obviously pleased many young women. The American embassy in Seoul was littered with hundreds of letters from young girls, foreign and American, who wanted to become wives of Korean nobles and demanded that the embassy staff find them a fiancé.
     
    And the story of a French girl, friend of Josephine who would become wife of Napoleon, herself becoming the favorite wife of the Ottoman Sultan, was a popular legend at the time, even though there is no proof that she really existed.

    Compared to all this tradition (lol), the ideology of racial purity was a blip.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Gowro, @Anatoly Karlin, @AP, @Mikhail, @Inselaffen, @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

    However, today, it’s impossible not to laugh, or view as a kind of comic fool, when a supposed “racist” person, is doing race-mix, considering that >95% of leftists and liberals have still a partner from the same race.

    In most places, you can see >95% leftists/liberals have partners from their own nationality or at least race. E.g. even in America, Vermont, the most liberal state, is the most white state.

    On the other hand, there is the designed leader of the American Alt-Right – Richard Spencer, who has a Georgian (somewhat brown) wife. His children will be less white or saxon than the average Democrat of Vermont: there is some kind of reductio ad absurdum of his political movement, by its own assumptions.

    That’s not to say that there is something wrong about race-mixing. Of course, from a child’s perspective, the important thing is the personality and cultural compatibility of parents, not whether their parents have different skin colour.

    Even such a negative obsession about race, is also something quite recent, and mainly inherited from a few colonial societies. Even in the late 19th century Russian Empire, it was fashionable to boast about having some exotic ancestor, as a positive, rather than negative, fact.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Dmitry


    In most places, you can see >95% leftists/liberals have partners from their own nationality or at least race. E.g. even in America, Vermont, the most liberal state, is the most white state.
     
    More likely a function of demographics.

    Another factor is the difference in the racial and ethnic composition of each type of area. Non-metro areas have a relatively large share of white newlyweds (83% vs. 62% in metro areas), and whites are far less likely to intermarry than those of other races or ethnicities. At the same time, metro areas have larger shares of Hispanics and Asians, who have very high rates of intermarriage. While 26% of newlyweds in metro areas are Hispanic or Asian, this share is 10% for newlyweds in non-metro areas.

     

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/pst_2017-05-15-intermarriage-01-03/

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    Replies: @Dmitry

  179. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive
    @AP

    Georgian cuisine is overrated because it was the only exotic cuisine boomers stashing rotting potatoes in their basement could have.
    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it's the apex of culinary genius.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @AP, @Blinky Bill

    I’ve been to more and better restaurants than you have, and can say that Georgian cuisine is pretty good.

    Also, Russian boomers don’t go out to eat much. The numerous Georgian restaurants around “my” neighborhood in Moscow (by m. Tverskaya) are mostly full of young hipsters.

  180. @Menes
    @N9

    I am sure this guy is lying or exaggerating. Why would black teachers say "their culture" about black students? The guy is clearly a racist. The kids sensed it and gave him a hard time for it. We got a few white teachers here at Unz.com who are WNs as well. You can be sure they screwed with their black and hispanic students.

    Any semblance of racial hatred should be grounds for dismissal for both teachers, police, judges etc, all professions disproportionately dominated by whites. I think teachers are ~90% white.

    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @HallParvey, @AnonFromTN

    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.

    What about brain or heart surgeons? Or airline pilots? I sincerely wish a URM surgeon to operate on you. If you survive, by any chance, I wish your flight back to be operated by a URM pilot. Let God sort you out.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonFromTN



    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.
     
    What about brain or heart surgeons? Or airline pilots?
     
    The distinction is straightforward.
    _____

    Some professions are centered almost exclusively on personal interaction with the "client". Human psychology relies on affinity as part of that relationship. Policing and Teaching are good examples.

    Somali Muslim officer Mohamed Noor shot Justine Diamond because she was white. He had no affinity for her, because those like Noor only have compassion for others like themselves. Had Noor's interaction been with a Somali Muslim woman, odds are the murder would have been avoided.
    ______

    Other professions have little to no social contact during the critical part of the service offering.

    Pilots work in a locked cabin and focus on the technical skill required for the task. There needs to be enough affinity and trust to get on the plane, but that is a fairly low bar.

    Surgery requires a bit more affinity to get through pre-op, but most "clients" are more concerned with the outcome instead of the likeability of the surgeon as a person.

    PEACE 😷

    , @Menes
    @AnonFromTN


    I sincerely wish a URM surgeon to operate on you. If you survive, by any chance, I wish your flight back to be operated by a URM pilot.
     
    Damn son, I touched a raw nerve. Must be because you are a racist teacher who screwed up the lives of his non-white students. Why else would you be so personally affronted by my post? How can any moral person disagree so passionately with a suggestion to bar racist haters from public professions that require impartiality, such as teachers, police, judges etc?

    Would you like your children to be taught by hardcore Ukrainian Nationalists who have a pathological hatred of Russians? Then why would you wish the equivalent on other parents? Unlike you (so petty and mean-spirited) I wouldn't wish that such an Ukrainian operate on your brain either.

    Obviously you do not believe in the Golden Rule of Morality. Or in Social Justice. In other words, you are a bad hombre.
  181. @AnonFromTN
    @Ano4

    Russians in general and Putin in particular are just tolerant. They don’t preach tolerance and equality (and laugh at those who do, including Western libtards), there are plenty of politically incorrect jokes about various nationalities and races, but in real life most Russians treat each person according to his/her individual qualities. Sensible approach, if you ask me.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Putin is both very philosemitic, and somewhat pro-Israel. This is not a result of some magical conspiracy, or a secret Jewish ancestry, or “control by Zionists”.

    Putin is philosemitic because his particular childhood in Leningrad with Jewish friends, Jewish teachers (he later bought an apartment in Tel Aviv for his old teacher of German), and of Jewish neighbours. Leningrad of his youth had a lot of Jews.

    Putin is pro-Israel because – he rented a car with his family, and drove all around Israel in the 1990s. What he liked is not clear. (I could not find an interview where he says why he loved it, just an interview where he says he loved it). But in general, someone with his state-building views, would probably admire the combination in Israel of so much flags and patriotism despite (or because of) so much multiracialism and multiculturalism of the population.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @Dmitry


    Putin is both very philosemitic, and somewhat pro-Israel.
     
    I would not bet my money one way or another. Putin strikes me as pragmatic, first and foremost. He spoiled Israeli plan to break Syria into a bunch of impotent warring Bantustans. At the same time he avoids direct confrontations with Israel, just like Israel avoids direct confrontations with Russia, as neither side wants to have more enemies in the region than they already have.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Dmitry

  182. @AP
    @utu

    It’s a combination of off-the-scale by European standards average black propensity towards violence, and New World Europeans who are far less violent than blacks on average but are still very violent by European standards. Perhaps it is a legacy of frontier culture itself, plus the fact that the frontier attracted people who were more prone towards adventurousness and violence. For example the homicide rates of Argentina and Uruguay (5.3 and 12, respectively), settled mostly by Spaniards and Italians, are much higher than in Spain and Italy (.57 and .62, respectively).
    Uruguay has more of a cowboy culture than does Argentina.

    And then, course, you add lots of guns into the mix.

    Without America’s intense policing and incarceration, I suspect the homicide rate there would a lot higher than 4.96.

    Replies: @Passer by, @Znzn, @Dmitry

    Without America’s intense policing and incarceration, I s

    It can also contribute to the violence.

    I cannot speak about America, but the people I am scared of if I am in a slightly more “dangerous” part of the city, is sometimes groups who are speaking to each other with some strange slangs which are learned in prison. It’s not just that the prison is selecting violent people, but that it is also contributing to their brutalization.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Dmitry


    It’s not just that the prison is selecting violent people, but that it is also contributing to their brutalization.
     
    That's obviously true but you'll never convince the right-wingers here of it. They're just not sane on these issues. I don't believe that they actually want solutions.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  183. A123 says:
    @AnonFromTN
    @Menes


    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.
     
    What about brain or heart surgeons? Or airline pilots? I sincerely wish a URM surgeon to operate on you. If you survive, by any chance, I wish your flight back to be operated by a URM pilot. Let God sort you out.

    Replies: @A123, @Menes

    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.

    What about brain or heart surgeons? Or airline pilots?

    The distinction is straightforward.
    _____

    Some professions are centered almost exclusively on personal interaction with the “client”. Human psychology relies on affinity as part of that relationship. Policing and Teaching are good examples.

    Somali Muslim officer Mohamed Noor shot Justine Diamond because she was white. He had no affinity for her, because those like Noor only have compassion for others like themselves. Had Noor’s interaction been with a Somali Muslim woman, odds are the murder would have been avoided.
    ______

    Other professions have little to no social contact during the critical part of the service offering.

    Pilots work in a locked cabin and focus on the technical skill required for the task. There needs to be enough affinity and trust to get on the plane, but that is a fairly low bar.

    Surgery requires a bit more affinity to get through pre-op, but most “clients” are more concerned with the outcome instead of the likeability of the surgeon as a person.

    PEACE 😷

    • Agree: AP
  184. @Dmitry
    @AnonFromTN

    Putin is both very philosemitic, and somewhat pro-Israel. This is not a result of some magical conspiracy, or a secret Jewish ancestry, or "control by Zionists".

    Putin is philosemitic because his particular childhood in Leningrad with Jewish friends, Jewish teachers (he later bought an apartment in Tel Aviv for his old teacher of German), and of Jewish neighbours. Leningrad of his youth had a lot of Jews.

    Putin is pro-Israel because - he rented a car with his family, and drove all around Israel in the 1990s. What he liked is not clear. (I could not find an interview where he says why he loved it, just an interview where he says he loved it). But in general, someone with his state-building views, would probably admire the combination in Israel of so much flags and patriotism despite (or because of) so much multiracialism and multiculturalism of the population.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

    Putin is both very philosemitic, and somewhat pro-Israel.

    I would not bet my money one way or another. Putin strikes me as pragmatic, first and foremost. He spoiled Israeli plan to break Syria into a bunch of impotent warring Bantustans. At the same time he avoids direct confrontations with Israel, just like Israel avoids direct confrontations with Russia, as neither side wants to have more enemies in the region than they already have.

    • Replies: @Znzn
    @AnonFromTN

    Israel does not strike me as being specifically anti-Assad, anti-Iran, but not anti-Assad.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @A123

    , @Dmitry
    @AnonFromTN


    spoiled Israeli plan to break Syria into a bunch of impotent warring Bantustans
     
    Syria is broken into Bantustans, so how can Putin stop that.

    On the other hand, an idea of Israel as some powerful country, that can internally break Arab enemy countries, is a Unz Review genre of fantasy literature. Israel cannot influence rioting Arabs in Yafo, or Haredi in Bnei Brak, or Africans across the South of Tel Aviv. Israel doesn't have many types of normal state capacity in its own borders, so someone has to explain to me how they can influence Arabs to rebel in Syria.

    The secret of why Syria broke into Bantustans, is in such websites as IMF.

    It was the country with the lowest per capita GDP in the region, except Yemen (which also broke). People riot when they don't have food in the fridge, and at this level, probably many Syrians cannot even pay electricity for a fridge.
    https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2019/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=51&pr.y=10&sy=2009&ey=2009&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=449%2C469%2C456%2C463%2C446&s=NGDPRPPPPC%2CNGDPDPC&grp=0&a=

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

  185. Before their turn left the only ideologically reliable pro-Magyar party in Hungary was Jobbik, even with their eclectic Turanism.

  186. @AnonFromTN
    @Dmitry


    Putin is both very philosemitic, and somewhat pro-Israel.
     
    I would not bet my money one way or another. Putin strikes me as pragmatic, first and foremost. He spoiled Israeli plan to break Syria into a bunch of impotent warring Bantustans. At the same time he avoids direct confrontations with Israel, just like Israel avoids direct confrontations with Russia, as neither side wants to have more enemies in the region than they already have.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Dmitry

    Israel does not strike me as being specifically anti-Assad, anti-Iran, but not anti-Assad.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @Znzn

    I am sure Yahu does not give a hoot about Assad. But he has two axes to grind: 1. Assad is an ally of Iran; 2. Dismembering Syria is in Israeli interest. Hence continuous Israeli help to jihadi bandits in Syria, and their PR branch, “white helmets”.

    Replies: @A123

    , @A123
    @Znzn


    Israel does not strike me as being specifically anti-Assad, anti-Iran, but not anti-Assad.
     
    Putin & Netanyahu have near identical interests in Syria. They both want to move Erdogan and Khameni out so there is no broad Sunni-Shia war that would permanently break the country.

    With Khameni gone, Trump would be able to extract 100% of U.S. Troops.
    _____

    The desire for Syrian regime change was always exclusively:
    -- Erdogan who wanted to add the land to his New Ottoman Empire
    -- SJW Globalists who wanted a liberal "color" revolution

    Given that these planned outcomes are in opposition, Israel saw regime change as a potential disaster. Only horrifically ill-informed people keep spreading the myth about Israel wanting to break-up Syria. Israel quietly opposed regime change, in their own enlightened self-interest, as almost any disintegration would create a worse problem on their Northern border.

    PEACE 😷
  187. OT, but one wonders if there is a CIA lab somewhere than is already experimenting on a lethal virus that only targets a specific race, like an airborne version of Ebola with the epidemiological characteristics of coronavirus that targets only Asians, Blacks, and Arabs?

  188. @Znzn
    @AnonFromTN

    Israel does not strike me as being specifically anti-Assad, anti-Iran, but not anti-Assad.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @A123

    I am sure Yahu does not give a hoot about Assad. But he has two axes to grind: 1. Assad is an ally of Iran; 2. Dismembering Syria is in Israeli interest. Hence continuous Israeli help to jihadi bandits in Syria, and their PR branch, “white helmets”.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonFromTN


    Hence continuous Israeli help to jihadi bandits in Syria, and their PR branch, “white helmets”.
     
    The "white helmets" in Central & Northern Syria were Turkish PR operators.

    After Iranian al'Hezbollah began placing offensive combat troops on Syria's southern border, Israel responded by supporting a number of anti-Iranian local groups to disrupt Iranian aggression. Some off these locals used "white" as an identifying color, but calling them Turkish White Helmet PR is misidentification.

    PEACE 😷
  189. @AP
    @Europe Europa


    It’s like they see Mexican culture and Quebecois culture as semi-European, while they don’t see their own as European at all. I’ve heard many Americans say words to the effect of “Going to Quebec is like going to France”, yet I doubt they would say the US is like going to England.
     
    Because Quebec City looks like France but neither a Wal Mart parking lot, nor Manhattan, look like England.

    Ultimately, of course, they are looking not just for places populated by Europeans but for places that look old, that therefore were built by Europeans at a time when beauty had a greater value.

    https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/why-is-the-modern-world-so-ugly/

    Why is the Modern World So Ugly?

    One of the great generalisations we can make about the modern world is that it is, to an extraordinary degree, an ugly world. If we were to show an ancestor from 250 years ago around our cities and suburbs, they would be amazed at our technology, impressed by our wealth, stunned by our medical advances – and shocked and disbelieving at the horrors we had managed to build. Societies that are, in most respects, hugely more advanced than those of the past have managed to construct urban environments more dispiriting, chaotic and distasteful than anything humanity has ever known.

    To find our way out of the paradox, we need to understand its origins. There are at least six reasons for the ugliness:

    i: The War on ‘Beauty’

    Since the dawn of construction, it was understood that the task of an architect was not only to make a building serviceable, but also to render it beautiful. That would involve a host of manoeuvres above and beyond pure material necessity. In the name of beauty, an architect might add a band of coloured tiles above the windows or a line of sculpted flowers over the door, they might try to create symmetry in the front facade, or carefully ensure that the windows got proportionally smaller on every storey.

    Even if the building was a practical one, like an aqueduct or a factory, architects would strive to give it a maximally pleasing appearance. The Romans understood that a water pumping system might be as beautiful as a temple, the early Victorians felt that even a factory could have some of the aesthetic properties of an elegant country house, the Milanese knew that a shopping arcade could carry some of the ambitions of a cathedral.

    Etc. etc.

    (linked article has nice pictures)

    Replies: @Europe Europa

    Because Quebec City looks like France but neither a Wal Mart parking lot, nor Manhattan, look like England.

    Ultimately, of course, they are looking not just for places populated by Europeans but for places that look old, that therefore were built by Europeans at a time when beauty had a greater value.

    Why do you think Quebec and many Latin American countries have retained old world European architecture to a far greater extent than the US and Anglo Canada has?

    I notice that even the modern urban design of many Latin American countries looks much more European than it does North American.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Europe Europa

    I’ve only visited Tijuana in Mexico - it’s not particularly pretty or European.

    In general, a city being “European-looking” in the New World depends on a combination of being relatively large and rich in old times, with relatively poor economic growth later. So in 1790 Quebec City had about half the population of New York City, much of which was contained in a stone wall that still exists. New York became the largest and richest city in the Western world, Quebec became a sleepy provincial place that retained its beauty (now, of course, it is a rather busy tourist trap).

    Some American cities also have considerable charm due to the combination of early wealth and later backwater. Charleston SC (more populous than Quebec City in 1790) and Savannah GA, and old whaling cities in New England such as Newport (which became a place for rich people 120 years ago).

    The beautiful Latin American cities seem to have been built up in the baroque age.

  190. @Dmitry
    @Toronto Russian

    However, today, it's impossible not to laugh, or view as a kind of comic fool, when a supposed "racist" person, is doing race-mix, considering that >95% of leftists and liberals have still a partner from the same race.

    In most places, you can see >95% leftists/liberals have partners from their own nationality or at least race. E.g. even in America, Vermont, the most liberal state, is the most white state.

    On the other hand, there is the designed leader of the American Alt-Right - Richard Spencer, who has a Georgian (somewhat brown) wife. His children will be less white or saxon than the average Democrat of Vermont: there is some kind of reductio ad absurdum of his political movement, by its own assumptions.

    -

    That's not to say that there is something wrong about race-mixing. Of course, from a child's perspective, the important thing is the personality and cultural compatibility of parents, not whether their parents have different skin colour.

    Even such a negative obsession about race, is also something quite recent, and mainly inherited from a few colonial societies. Even in the late 19th century Russian Empire, it was fashionable to boast about having some exotic ancestor, as a positive, rather than negative, fact.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    In most places, you can see >95% leftists/liberals have partners from their own nationality or at least race. E.g. even in America, Vermont, the most liberal state, is the most white state.

    More likely a function of demographics.

    Another factor is the difference in the racial and ethnic composition of each type of area. Non-metro areas have a relatively large share of white newlyweds (83% vs. 62% in metro areas), and whites are far less likely to intermarry than those of other races or ethnicities. At the same time, metro areas have larger shares of Hispanics and Asians, who have very high rates of intermarriage. While 26% of newlyweds in metro areas are Hispanic or Asian, this share is 10% for newlyweds in non-metro areas.

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/pst_2017-05-15-intermarriage-01-03/

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Hyperborean

    Sure, the fact liberals are marrying people of their own race, is mostly just because of bourgeois demographics.

    I was just adding a funny fact, that a leader of the American Alt-Right, doesn't produce children of his own race, but has cosmopolitan mix-race children, while even almost all their liberal opponents have white children, and married a partner of the same race. It's reductio ad absurdum.

    -


    That's not to say, that there is something wrong with mixed-nationality marriage and children, if partners were compatible in more important ways.

    From children's perspective - which is the relevant one - you'll care about the personality of your parents, not their nationality.

  191. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive
    @AP

    Georgian cuisine is overrated because it was the only exotic cuisine boomers stashing rotting potatoes in their basement could have.
    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it's the apex of culinary genius.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @AP, @Blinky Bill

    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it’s the apex of culinary genius.

    Only the Soviets truly experienced the apex of East Asian culinary genius.

    Морковь по-корейски

    The West didn’t know what it missed !

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Морковь_по-корейски

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Blinky Bill

    Looks a lot like plain everyday American carrot salad, minus the raisins, apples and mayonnaise. And we all know how much Russians lover their mayonnaise. It must be the "secret sauce" including sunflower oil and coriander?

    https://www.simplyrecipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/classic-carrot-salad-vertical-a2-1600-600x804.jpg

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    , @Lars Porsena
    @Blinky Bill

    Polish version - carrotslaw, tarta marchewka

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aehveFb01ok/Un850PM-pPI/AAAAAAAACZo/PLpOaN1d7fI/s640/20131109_112108.jpg

    , @Ano4
    @Blinky Bill

    Korean carrots is a good dish and I like it very much.

    Although I must admit I have discovered it only after the collapse of the USSR.

    During Soviet times, as entrées we usually ate Селёдка под шубой and Салат Оливье.

    My grandma's cuisine was simple and straightforward, except for the major holidays.

    Still, my grandparents had a very large and heavy culinary book published in the Stalin's era, full of colored illustrations and detailing the different recipes that were to be found in high end restaurants at the time.

    Think Griboyedov in Bulgakov's "Master and Margarita".

    It didn't strike me as unsophisticated at the time, quite the opposite.

    Even today, after having traveled and ate different types of cuisine, the diversity culinary traditions available in Russia seems more than sufficient and adequate to my tastes.

    When I go to Moscow, I am quite happy eating at Теремок fast food restaurants.

    🙂

  192. A123 says:
    @Znzn
    @AnonFromTN

    Israel does not strike me as being specifically anti-Assad, anti-Iran, but not anti-Assad.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN, @A123

    Israel does not strike me as being specifically anti-Assad, anti-Iran, but not anti-Assad.

    Putin & Netanyahu have near identical interests in Syria. They both want to move Erdogan and Khameni out so there is no broad Sunni-Shia war that would permanently break the country.

    With Khameni gone, Trump would be able to extract 100% of U.S. Troops.
    _____

    The desire for Syrian regime change was always exclusively:
    — Erdogan who wanted to add the land to his New Ottoman Empire
    — SJW Globalists who wanted a liberal “color” revolution

    Given that these planned outcomes are in opposition, Israel saw regime change as a potential disaster. Only horrifically ill-informed people keep spreading the myth about Israel wanting to break-up Syria. Israel quietly opposed regime change, in their own enlightened self-interest, as almost any disintegration would create a worse problem on their Northern border.

    PEACE 😷

  193. A123 says:
    @AnonFromTN
    @Znzn

    I am sure Yahu does not give a hoot about Assad. But he has two axes to grind: 1. Assad is an ally of Iran; 2. Dismembering Syria is in Israeli interest. Hence continuous Israeli help to jihadi bandits in Syria, and their PR branch, “white helmets”.

    Replies: @A123

    Hence continuous Israeli help to jihadi bandits in Syria, and their PR branch, “white helmets”.

    The “white helmets” in Central & Northern Syria were Turkish PR operators.

    After Iranian al’Hezbollah began placing offensive combat troops on Syria’s southern border, Israel responded by supporting a number of anti-Iranian local groups to disrupt Iranian aggression. Some off these locals used “white” as an identifying color, but calling them Turkish White Helmet PR is misidentification.

    PEACE 😷

  194. @Ano4
    An interesting series of articles about AI is currently being published by Asia times:

    The meanings of essential concepts, as they actually occur in human cognitive activity, cannot be adequately defined or represented in formal, combinatorial terms. They cannot be stored in a computer base or incorporated into a software architecture.

    The pioneers of artificial intelligence should have recognized this fact, even without the 1930s results of Kurt Gödel in mathematical logic, with which von Neumann, Turing and others were thoroughly familiar. But Gödel’s arguments leave no reasonable doubt concerning the inexhaustibility of meaning, even for such supposedly simple concepts of mathematics as that of a “finite set” or “truth” as it applies to propositions of mathematics.
     

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/ais-future-lies-in-its-truly-human-past/

    Which begs the question: what is the impact of the current Deep Learning technologies on COVID-19 decision making?

    Have Deep Learning algorithms been used, either in China or the West, to inform the decision making about quarantines and lockdowns?

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Dacian Julien Soros

    [MORE]

    On December 5, 1947, Einstein and Morgenstern accompanied Gödel to his U.S. citizenship exam, where they acted as witnesses. Gödel had confided in them that he had discovered an inconsistency in the U.S. Constitution that could allow the U.S. to become a dictatorship. Einstein and Morgenstern were concerned that their friend’s unpredictable behavior might jeopardize his application. The judge turned out to be Phillip Forman, who knew Einstein and had administered the oath at Einstein’s own citizenship hearing. Everything went smoothly until Forman happened to ask Gödel if he thought a dictatorship like the Nazi regime could happen in the U.S. Gödel then started to explain his discovery to Forman. Forman understood what was going on, cut Gödel off, and moved the hearing on to other questions and a routine conclusion.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Blinky Bill

    Interesting.

    Is is possible that Gödel might have been somewhat autistic?

    Asperger's syndrome maybe?

  195. @Blinky Bill
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it’s the apex of culinary genius.
     
    Only the Soviets truly experienced the apex of East Asian culinary genius.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Korean-style_carrot.jpg

    Морковь по-корейски

    The West didn't know what it missed !

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Морковь_по-корейски

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Lars Porsena, @Ano4

    Looks a lot like plain everyday American carrot salad, minus the raisins, apples and mayonnaise. And we all know how much Russians lover their mayonnaise. It must be the “secret sauce” including sunflower oil and coriander?

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Mr. Hack


    American carrot salad, minus the raisins, apples and mayonnaise.
     


    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT1Tzzghvq7uHOnNnxyf_UzXx6_40nCv8U3maMPweGIBbe1C6ZV&usqp.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  196. American journalists have started admitting it’s a domestic colour revolution (though in a dumb positive moralistic manner).

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/how-regime-change-happens/612739/

    The high-low coalition seems to have thrown all their previous principles (whether short-term ones like Corona-chan or longer-term ones like the liberal Empire) overboard in favour of a cultural revolution that will predictably end in disaster.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Hyperborean


    whether short-term ones like Corona-chan or longer-term ones like* the liberal Empire
     
    *or maintaining the strength of the liberal empire.
  197. @Hyperborean
    American journalists have started admitting it's a domestic colour revolution (though in a dumb positive moralistic manner).

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/how-regime-change-happens/612739/

    The high-low coalition seems to have thrown all their previous principles (whether short-term ones like Corona-chan or longer-term ones like the liberal Empire) overboard in favour of a cultural revolution that will predictably end in disaster.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    whether short-term ones like Corona-chan or longer-term ones like* the liberal Empire

    *or maintaining the strength of the liberal empire.

  198. @Mr. Hack
    @Blinky Bill

    Looks a lot like plain everyday American carrot salad, minus the raisins, apples and mayonnaise. And we all know how much Russians lover their mayonnaise. It must be the "secret sauce" including sunflower oil and coriander?

    https://www.simplyrecipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/classic-carrot-salad-vertical-a2-1600-600x804.jpg

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    American carrot salad, minus the raisins, apples and mayonnaise.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Blinky Bill

    Got it!

    https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2015/12/08/16/10/isolated-1083235__340.png

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

  199. AP says:
    @Europe Europa
    @AP


    Because Quebec City looks like France but neither a Wal Mart parking lot, nor Manhattan, look like England.

    Ultimately, of course, they are looking not just for places populated by Europeans but for places that look old, that therefore were built by Europeans at a time when beauty had a greater value.
     
    Why do you think Quebec and many Latin American countries have retained old world European architecture to a far greater extent than the US and Anglo Canada has?

    I notice that even the modern urban design of many Latin American countries looks much more European than it does North American.

    Replies: @AP

    I’ve only visited Tijuana in Mexico – it’s not particularly pretty or European.

    In general, a city being “European-looking” in the New World depends on a combination of being relatively large and rich in old times, with relatively poor economic growth later. So in 1790 Quebec City had about half the population of New York City, much of which was contained in a stone wall that still exists. New York became the largest and richest city in the Western world, Quebec became a sleepy provincial place that retained its beauty (now, of course, it is a rather busy tourist trap).

    Some American cities also have considerable charm due to the combination of early wealth and later backwater. Charleston SC (more populous than Quebec City in 1790) and Savannah GA, and old whaling cities in New England such as Newport (which became a place for rich people 120 years ago).

    The beautiful Latin American cities seem to have been built up in the baroque age.

  200. @Alexander Turok
    @Beckow

    Merkel, Bojo, and Macron all saw increases in approval ratings due to corona. Trump saw a very brief one, would have been stronger and lasted longer were he less of a moron.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    Bono has fallen since, more than most world leaders. The Indonesian did worse.

  201. @Blinky Bill
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it’s the apex of culinary genius.
     
    Only the Soviets truly experienced the apex of East Asian culinary genius.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Korean-style_carrot.jpg

    Морковь по-корейски

    The West didn't know what it missed !

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Морковь_по-корейски

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Lars Porsena, @Ano4

    Polish version – carrotslaw, tarta marchewka

  202. @Blinky Bill
    @Mr. Hack


    American carrot salad, minus the raisins, apples and mayonnaise.
     


    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT1Tzzghvq7uHOnNnxyf_UzXx6_40nCv8U3maMPweGIBbe1C6ZV&usqp.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Got it!

    • LOL: Ano4, Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Mr. Hack

    More authentic depiction.

    https://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-photo-peasant-with-damaged-carrots-on-his-garden-284088467.jpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSWLJPNff-GeHkAJ70Za5nJgv8G85Bk553rJIxMxGKN2W7ddPdD&usqp.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  203. @Blinky Bill
    @Ano4


    On December 5, 1947, Einstein and Morgenstern accompanied Gödel to his U.S. citizenship exam, where they acted as witnesses. Gödel had confided in them that he had discovered an inconsistency in the U.S. Constitution that could allow the U.S. to become a dictatorship. Einstein and Morgenstern were concerned that their friend's unpredictable behavior might jeopardize his application. The judge turned out to be Phillip Forman, who knew Einstein and had administered the oath at Einstein's own citizenship hearing. Everything went smoothly until Forman happened to ask Gödel if he thought a dictatorship like the Nazi regime could happen in the U.S. Gödel then started to explain his discovery to Forman. Forman understood what was going on, cut Gödel off, and moved the hearing on to other questions and a routine conclusion.

    Replies: @Ano4

    Interesting.

    Is is possible that Gödel might have been somewhat autistic?

    Asperger’s syndrome maybe?

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  204. Anatoly, where the rural regions safer for Slavs during the Great Purges? (Safer as in not being purged.)

  205. @Europe Europa
    I find it strange how Americans go to Quebec or certain colonial-looking parts of Mexico for a "taste of Europe", totally ignoring that they're just as European as either of those places. I don't really get that.

    It's like they see Mexican culture and Quebecois culture as semi-European, while they don't see their own as European at all. I've heard many Americans say words to the effect of "Going to Quebec is like going to France", yet I doubt they would say the US is like going to England.

    Replies: @AP, @Lars Porsena

    What the US looks like by and large:

    Quebec:

    Mexico:

    • Replies: @AP
    @Lars Porsena

    Savannah, Georgia:

    https://www.vacationhomesofhiltonhead.com/sites/default/files/uploads/downtown_savannah.jpg

    https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/01/07/USAT/f8a7ca66-74dc-4be4-8428-4c10eba416be-GettyImages-860868486.jpg

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

  206. Ano4 says:
    @Blinky Bill
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    While capitalist countires could afford japanese, chinese, indian delicacies. Soviets had to eat cheese stuffed in bread and act like it’s the apex of culinary genius.
     
    Only the Soviets truly experienced the apex of East Asian culinary genius.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Korean-style_carrot.jpg

    Морковь по-корейски

    The West didn't know what it missed !

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Морковь_по-корейски

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Lars Porsena, @Ano4

    Korean carrots is a good dish and I like it very much.

    Although I must admit I have discovered it only after the collapse of the USSR.

    During Soviet times, as entrées we usually ate Селёдка под шубой and Салат Оливье.

    My grandma’s cuisine was simple and straightforward, except for the major holidays.

    Still, my grandparents had a very large and heavy culinary book published in the Stalin’s era, full of colored illustrations and detailing the different recipes that were to be found in high end restaurants at the time.

    Think Griboyedov in Bulgakov’s “Master and Margarita”.

    It didn’t strike me as unsophisticated at the time, quite the opposite.

    Even today, after having traveled and ate different types of cuisine, the diversity culinary traditions available in Russia seems more than sufficient and adequate to my tastes.

    When I go to Moscow, I am quite happy eating at Теремок fast food restaurants.

    🙂

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
  207. @Znzn
    Did 19th century Europeans see Russian Slavs as being white/fully European? Or as some sort of Asiatic-European breed? Wasn't there a saying back then that Asia started East of Budapest, back during the time when 60 percent of Americans had a dim view of Jews in general? And California and the West Coast had its anti miscegenation laws because of Asian immigration.

    Replies: @Pumblechook

    Grattez le Russe et vous trouverez le Tatare

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Pumblechook

    The wogs begin at Calais.

    😂😂😂😂

    Replies: @Znzn

    , @Ano4
    @Pumblechook

    Ça devrait plutôt être : grattez le Russe et le Tartare et vous trouverez les lointains descendants de la Culture de la céramique cordée.

    De même que: grattez le Basque, le Breton et le Hausa du Tchad et vous trouverez les lointains descendants de la Culture de Yamnaya.

    In fact, the recent steppe genetic admixture in Russian population is quite limited.

    It is greater the other way around: the Volga Tatars have more Slav admixture than the Central Asian Turks.

    Replies: @Pumblechook, @AnonFromTN

  208. https://www.rt.com/uk/491310-miss-hitler-winner-jailed/

    Jailed for 3 years because she belonged to a banned group, at the same time 3rd worlders that rape young girls are ignored.

  209. @Pumblechook
    @Znzn

    Grattez le Russe et vous trouverez le Tatare

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Ano4

    The wogs begin at Calais.

    😂😂😂😂

    • Agree: Ano4
    • LOL: Pumblechook
    • Replies: @Znzn
    @Blinky Bill

    No offense, but the French in the 19th and early 20th century are the Europeans who are most enthusiastic about miscegenation with black Africans and Arabs, so if the label fits?

  210. Ano4 says:
    @Pumblechook
    @Znzn

    Grattez le Russe et vous trouverez le Tatare

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Ano4

    Ça devrait plutôt être : grattez le Russe et le Tartare et vous trouverez les lointains descendants de la Culture de la céramique cordée.

    De même que: grattez le Basque, le Breton et le Hausa du Tchad et vous trouverez les lointains descendants de la Culture de Yamnaya.

    In fact, the recent steppe genetic admixture in Russian population is quite limited.

    It is greater the other way around: the Volga Tatars have more Slav admixture than the Central Asian Turks.

    • Replies: @Pumblechook
    @Ano4

    Yes, yes, I know it's just a lazy trope. Mais je serais choque si je trouverais un 'Yamnayen' cache dans un Hausa...

    Funnily enough, I only just stumbled across the Yamnaya, Afanasievo, Tocharians and all these hidden Indo-European delights during lockdown. I always found haplogroup talk and DNA sperg-outs boring to say the least, but I've been warming up to it! You can completely see why the Nazis got into all that mystical ancient Aryan line of business. It seems from what I can work out so far that indeed the Eastern Slavs (though also throw in Poles to the mix) or Balts seem to be the closest you can get to the inheritors of our ancient Yamna kangz.

    Alas, I am ethnically Southern European, and therefore just a miserable EEF.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Znzn

    , @AnonFromTN
    @Ano4


    the Volga Tatars have more Slav admixture than the Central Asian Turks.
     
    Maybe because they were in the habit of washing themselves? Of course, cruel Russian colonizers forced Central Asians to wash, brush their teeth, and treat women as humans. Now gloriously independent Central Asian nations abandoned all these degrading practices and turned back to their roots. It’s their culture.

    Replies: @Ano4

  211. @Mr. Hack
    @Blinky Bill

    Got it!

    https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2015/12/08/16/10/isolated-1083235__340.png

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    More authentic depiction.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Blinky Bill

    Great folks, I've known a lot o them in my life. Watched my elderly uncle once shoveling out potatoes out of the ground in late summer (I almost cried). These people know what it means to get your back into your living. I know what kind of back breaking work this can entail, I've had a few of my own hobby gardens in the past.

  212. @Ano4
    An interesting series of articles about AI is currently being published by Asia times:

    The meanings of essential concepts, as they actually occur in human cognitive activity, cannot be adequately defined or represented in formal, combinatorial terms. They cannot be stored in a computer base or incorporated into a software architecture.

    The pioneers of artificial intelligence should have recognized this fact, even without the 1930s results of Kurt Gödel in mathematical logic, with which von Neumann, Turing and others were thoroughly familiar. But Gödel’s arguments leave no reasonable doubt concerning the inexhaustibility of meaning, even for such supposedly simple concepts of mathematics as that of a “finite set” or “truth” as it applies to propositions of mathematics.
     

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/ais-future-lies-in-its-truly-human-past/

    Which begs the question: what is the impact of the current Deep Learning technologies on COVID-19 decision making?

    Have Deep Learning algorithms been used, either in China or the West, to inform the decision making about quarantines and lockdowns?

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Dacian Julien Soros

    No Artificial Intelligence achievement would be possible without CRISPRing the IoT on the blockchain.

    • LOL: Ano4
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    What

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros, @Ano4

  213. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive
    @anonymous coward


    One thing is true, though: the American obsession with ‘cuisine’ and food in general is absolute cuckoldry and a sign of a dying people. Russians would never admit that they’re eating ‘cuisine’ instead of good nutrition balanced for work and health.

     

    - you, literally 4 comments ago.

    a) Obsession with cuisine is absolute cuckoldry
    b) Russians appreciate Georgian cuisine because it's good.
    c) Russians are not cuckolds
    Pick 2.

    Replies: @anonymous coward

    a) Obsession with cuisine is absolute cuckoldry
    b) Russians appreciate Georgian cuisine because it’s good.
    c) Russians are not cuckolds

    The 30-minus demographic in Russia is full of cucks, yes. (But that’s part of being young and dumb, they’ll grow up eventually.)

    A thing you need to understand: Russia still has a ‘normative culture’; that is, despite your personal failings and weaknesses there is still a clear-cut understanding of a measure of ‘Russianness’ that you must at least try to live up to.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @anonymous coward


    But that’s part of being young and dumb
     
    Long ago, when The Guardian still had a comment section, one of the commenters said that if he had a tattoo from the time he was 18, he’d remove it. The other said that he’d leave it be, to remind him how stupid he was at 18.
  214. @Ano4
    @Pumblechook

    Ça devrait plutôt être : grattez le Russe et le Tartare et vous trouverez les lointains descendants de la Culture de la céramique cordée.

    De même que: grattez le Basque, le Breton et le Hausa du Tchad et vous trouverez les lointains descendants de la Culture de Yamnaya.

    In fact, the recent steppe genetic admixture in Russian population is quite limited.

    It is greater the other way around: the Volga Tatars have more Slav admixture than the Central Asian Turks.

    Replies: @Pumblechook, @AnonFromTN

    Yes, yes, I know it’s just a lazy trope. Mais je serais choque si je trouverais un ‘Yamnayen’ cache dans un Hausa…

    Funnily enough, I only just stumbled across the Yamnaya, Afanasievo, Tocharians and all these hidden Indo-European delights during lockdown. I always found haplogroup talk and DNA sperg-outs boring to say the least, but I’ve been warming up to it! You can completely see why the Nazis got into all that mystical ancient Aryan line of business. It seems from what I can work out so far that indeed the Eastern Slavs (though also throw in Poles to the mix) or Balts seem to be the closest you can get to the inheritors of our ancient Yamna kangz.

    Alas, I am ethnically Southern European, and therefore just a miserable EEF.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Pumblechook


    Mais je serais choque si je trouverais un ‘Yamnayen’ cache dans un Hausa…
     
    Et pourtant...

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987365/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6240361/

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#Africa

    😄

    Y haplogroup R1b travelled a lot before resurgence as Bell Beaker phenomenon in Western Maghreb and Iberian peninsula.

    And original BBK people were black haired brown eyed southerners, not some nordic blue eyed Aryosophists' fetish.

    BTW, I have no idea where the certitude about Indo European affiliation of either Bell Beaker or Corded Ware or both came from in today's academic circles.

    Pots are not people, as the archeologists say.

    And pots are not languages either.

    Nobody knows for sure what language these ancient populations spoke.

    I personally like to believe that Tripolyan Culture was at the origin of the Aryan language family.

    But we have no exact knowledge about Y haplogroup of Tripolye Cucuteni people.

    Voila!

    😄

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    , @Znzn
    @Pumblechook

    I read somewhere that the Tocharians are 50 percent Mongoloid on the female side, so they are approximately one fourth Asian, like Chuvashes and some Tartars.

  215. @Dacian Julien Soros
    @Ano4

    No Artificial Intelligence achievement would be possible without CRISPRing the IoT on the blockchain.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    What

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    @Daniel Chieh

    Common slur about people who use cliches with no effect on real life, just because they saw those words in titles in The Economist.

    How satisfied are you with AI-enabled predictions from Google or Amazon? That is peak AI - not a lot if you ask me. Am I going to believe Deep Learning will do something to covid?

    Replies: @Ano4

    , @Ano4
    @Daniel Chieh

    Our friend is being facetious here, I gather.

    🙂

  216. @Daniel Chieh
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    What

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros, @Ano4

    Common slur about people who use cliches with no effect on real life, just because they saw those words in titles in The Economist.

    How satisfied are you with AI-enabled predictions from Google or Amazon? That is peak AI – not a lot if you ask me. Am I going to believe Deep Learning will do something to covid?

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Well I don't read the Economist and have no great knowledge about Deep Learning and or AI.

    CRISPR on the other hand...

    🙂

    BTW, did you read the article that I have linked?

    If not give it a try.

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros, @Daniel Chieh

  217. Ano4 says:
    @Pumblechook
    @Ano4

    Yes, yes, I know it's just a lazy trope. Mais je serais choque si je trouverais un 'Yamnayen' cache dans un Hausa...

    Funnily enough, I only just stumbled across the Yamnaya, Afanasievo, Tocharians and all these hidden Indo-European delights during lockdown. I always found haplogroup talk and DNA sperg-outs boring to say the least, but I've been warming up to it! You can completely see why the Nazis got into all that mystical ancient Aryan line of business. It seems from what I can work out so far that indeed the Eastern Slavs (though also throw in Poles to the mix) or Balts seem to be the closest you can get to the inheritors of our ancient Yamna kangz.

    Alas, I am ethnically Southern European, and therefore just a miserable EEF.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Znzn

    Mais je serais choque si je trouverais un ‘Yamnayen’ cache dans un Hausa…

    Et pourtant…

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987365/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6240361/

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#Africa

    😄

    Y haplogroup R1b travelled a lot before resurgence as Bell Beaker phenomenon in Western Maghreb and Iberian peninsula.

    And original BBK people were black haired brown eyed southerners, not some nordic blue eyed Aryosophists’ fetish.

    BTW, I have no idea where the certitude about Indo European affiliation of either Bell Beaker or Corded Ware or both came from in today’s academic circles.

    Pots are not people, as the archeologists say.

    And pots are not languages either.

    Nobody knows for sure what language these ancient populations spoke.

    I personally like to believe that Tripolyan Culture was at the origin of the Aryan language family.

    But we have no exact knowledge about Y haplogroup of Tripolye Cucuteni people.

    Voila!

    😄

    • Thanks: Pumblechook
    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    @Ano4

    I don't know about the Bell Beakers. In the past there has been a lot of theories that they were an older (maybe Early Mideast Farmer) people who were replaced by Corded Ware and the like.

    Scandinavian Battle Axe Culture was always consider an offshoot of Corded Ware.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Axe_culture


    The Battle Axe culture was an offshoot of the Corded Ware culture, and replaced the Funnelbeaker culture in southern Scandinavia, probably through a process of mass migration and population replacement. It is thought to have been responsible for spreading Indo-European languages and other elements of Indo-European culture to the region. It co-existed for a time with the hunter-gatherer Pitted Ware culture, which it eventually absorbed, developing into the Nordic Bronze Age. The Nordic Bronze Age has, in turn, been considered ancestral to the Germanic peoples.
     

    The Battle Axe culture emerged in the south of the Scandinavian Peninsula about 2,800 BC. It was an offshoot of the Corded Ware culture, which was itself largely an offshoot of the Yamnaya culture of the Pontic-Caspian steppe. Modern genetic studies show that its emergence was accompanied by large-scale migrations and genetic displacement.
     
    There has been genetic testing now too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    According to Haak et al. (2015), the Corded Ware people carried mostly Western Steppe Herder (WSH) ancestry and were closely related to the people of the Yamna culture (or Yamnaya), "documenting a massive migration into the heartland of Europe from its eastern periphery," the Eurasiatic steppes.[4] The Corded Ware culture may have disseminated the Proto-Germanic and Proto-Balto-Slavic Indo-European languages. The Corded Ware Culture also shows genetic affinity with the later Sintashta culture, where the Proto-Indo-Iranian language may have originated.
     

    The origins and dispersal of Corded Ware culture is one of the pivotal unresolved issues of the Indo-European Urheimat problem.[8] The Corded Ware culture has long been regarded as Indo-European because of its relative lack of settlements compared to preceding cultures, which suggested a mobile, pastoral economy, similar to that of the Yamna culture, and the culture of the Indo-Europeans inferred from philology. Its wide area of distribution indicates rapid expansion at the assumed time of the dispersal of Indo-European languages. Indeed, the Corded Ware culture was once presumed to be the Urheimat of the Proto-Indo-Europeans based on their possession of the horse and wheeled vehicles, apparent warlike propensities, wide area of distribution and rapid intrusive expansion at the assumed time of the dispersal of Indo-European languages.[8] Today this idea has lost currency, as the Kurgan hypothesis is currently the most widely accepted proposal to explain the origins and spread of the Indo-European languages.
     

    A genetic study conducted by Haak et al. (2015) found that a large proportion of the ancestry of the Corded Ware culture's population is similar to the Yamna culture, tracing the Corded Ware culture's origins to migrations of the Yamna from the steppes 4,500 years ago.[4] About 75% of the DNA of late Neolithic Corded Ware skeletons found in Germany was a precise match to DNA from individuals of the Yamna culture.[4] The same study estimated a 40–54% ancestral contribution of the Yamna in the DNA of modern Central & Northern Europeans, and a 20–32% contribution in modern Southern Europeans, excluding Sardinians (7.1% or less), and to a lesser extent Sicilians (11.6% or less).[4][50][51] Haak et al. also note that their results "suggest" that haplogroups R1b and R1a "spread into Europe from the East after 3,000 BCE."[4]
     

    As of October 2019, the Y-DNA of more than 26 Corded Ware males has been extracted. The majority of them have been found to be carriers of haplogroup R1a. Remaining males have been found to be carriers of R1b and I2a. It is notable that although Corded Ware is presumed to be largely derived from the Yamnaya culture, most Corded Ware males carried Y-DNA of different lineages than males of the Yamnaya, who primarily carried R1b-M269. Neither R1a nor R1b-M269 have been reported among Neolithic populations of central and western Europe, although it was common among earlier hunter gatherers of Eastern Europe.
     

    Autosomal DNA tests also indicate that westward migration from the steppes introduced a component of ancestry referred to as "Ancient North Eurasian" admixture into western Europe.[4] "Ancient North Eurasian" is the name given in genetic literature to a component that represents descent from the people of the Mal'ta-Buret' culture[4] or a population closely related to them.[4] The "Ancient North Eurasian" genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people[4] as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Western or Central Europeans predating the Corded Ware culture.
     

    Replies: @Ano4

  218. @Dacian Julien Soros
    @Daniel Chieh

    Common slur about people who use cliches with no effect on real life, just because they saw those words in titles in The Economist.

    How satisfied are you with AI-enabled predictions from Google or Amazon? That is peak AI - not a lot if you ask me. Am I going to believe Deep Learning will do something to covid?

    Replies: @Ano4

    Well I don’t read the Economist and have no great knowledge about Deep Learning and or AI.

    CRISPR on the other hand…

    🙂

    BTW, did you read the article that I have linked?

    If not give it a try.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    @Ano4

    I just read the article. It's sort of illuminating in that I never thought about the gap between reality and equivalent computer-coded information in the context of AI. The author ("Tennenbaum received his PhD in mathematics from the University of California in 1973 at age 22") seems to make the claim that the gap is an existential threat to the future of AI.

    However, I am aware, from work as well as from attempts to digitize vinyls, that the gap exists, and that decent efforts to close it are more than enough. It also doesn't change my initial idea, that AI has little to offer to our current problems. The few places where prediction needs more than linear regression, such as weather forecasts or trading, seem to have reached their limits long time ago. The way we accept the uncertainty surrounding Schroedinger cat, we should probably accept the uncertainty of weather forecasts.

    As a Millenial, I have seen no noticeable progress in prediction science since I first heard about it, so it feels Lindy to assume this is the best we can get.

    More to the point, I've grown to see the complete void behind public health decisions. Even focus groups famously used by Western leaders in the nineties are abandoned. Trump shitposts that covid may be dominated because he is terrified US shares will collapse. Pelosi says we must wear masks because she ants to piss off Trump. Merkel pretends she cares about Pelosi's point, but keeps her country open and ready to compete with US. (Every sort of biotech was working through the crisis, in both countries, even if it was unrelated to the virus. Airplane engine manufacturing continued, to the point that US DOD paid GE Aviation to carry on work, although prospects for civilian orders looked grim.) Iohannis opens whatever factories and airports Merkel says must open. That is your decision chain, with no opportunity for any kind of intelligence, artificial or otherwise.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @Ano4

    I am familiar with machine learning, having worked with it on and off a bit. The problems with it ultimately are the same problems with any other expert system at the moment; it can perhaps plot out or figure an infection curve but since there's no longer any agreement on what consistutes a "real" Corona-19 death, inaccurate guesses on infectees and poor contact tracing, we're left with a data set of knowledge that's highly variable. Or in the eyes of some, garbage in, garbage out.

    East Asia does have ways of automating temperature checks, with Singapore feeding the data to their smartcity networks, so some degree of expert system manipulation is probably happening there. It probably does some(much?) good, though of course temperature check isn't the ideal corona-detector.

    This pretty cool, on that level:
    https://www.tutorialspoint.com/genetic_algorithms/genetic_algorithms_introduction.htm

    Replies: @Znzn

  219. @Ano4
    @Pumblechook

    Ça devrait plutôt être : grattez le Russe et le Tartare et vous trouverez les lointains descendants de la Culture de la céramique cordée.

    De même que: grattez le Basque, le Breton et le Hausa du Tchad et vous trouverez les lointains descendants de la Culture de Yamnaya.

    In fact, the recent steppe genetic admixture in Russian population is quite limited.

    It is greater the other way around: the Volga Tatars have more Slav admixture than the Central Asian Turks.

    Replies: @Pumblechook, @AnonFromTN

    the Volga Tatars have more Slav admixture than the Central Asian Turks.

    Maybe because they were in the habit of washing themselves? Of course, cruel Russian colonizers forced Central Asians to wash, brush their teeth, and treat women as humans. Now gloriously independent Central Asian nations abandoned all these degrading practices and turned back to their roots. It’s their culture.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AnonFromTN

    Quite simply, Ural/Volga and Southern Siberia are a very important spot for the origin and/or evolution of different ethnic groups.

    These regions were populated by haplogroups R1a, R1b, Q since the earliest times.

    As a consequence, Slavs and Turks share haplogroup R1a, although branches of this haplogroup are different.

    Turks have inherited the "Scythian" Indo-Iranian branch.

    Other Turks have haplogroup R1b, Bashkirs for example are direct descendants of the Yamnaya people and subsequent Sarmatian populations.

    Uighur people have R1a, R1b and the Extreme Oriental Y haplogroups that they share with Chinese, Tibetans etc.

    For the admixture: Tatar raiders carried their slave caravans captured in the ancient Rus territory back home to the Volga Saray region.

    They copulated with the beautiful Slav female captives and had children.

    Children were integrated into the Horde...

    🙂

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonFromTN

  220. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    I haven't studied the issue in depth - though there are a couple of prominent celebrity chefs in Russia, Maxim Syrnikov and Vlad Piskunov come to mind, who specialize in recreating pre-revolutionary cuisine.

    I briefly mentioned the former in my travelogue on Veliky Novgorod: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/novgorod-2018/

    My Twitter thread on Russia's steak culture: https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1171771252488515585

    Also worth noting that such culinary destruction isn't always due to Communist leveling. For instance, the British had a surprisingly rich culinary tradition in the 19th century. But for whatever reason (many that one can name), they didn't manage to preserve it - unlike, say, the French.


    ***

    PS. Also the usual disclaimer - whenever anonymous coward claims something, assume the opposite is true.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @Mary Marianne

    Perhaps it’s mass education. I know that Dutch culinary traditions also used to be quite rich (influenced by northern French cuisine). At the start of the 20th century, however, mass education became available and girls were send to the so-called “Huishoudschool” where they learned skills of a domestic servant. This includes the skill of cooking healthy food for cheap, which apparently meant that one should make their food as bland and uniform as possible.

  221. @Daniel Chieh
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    What

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros, @Ano4

    Our friend is being facetious here, I gather.

    🙂

  222. @anonymous coward
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive


    a) Obsession with cuisine is absolute cuckoldry
    b) Russians appreciate Georgian cuisine because it’s good.
    c) Russians are not cuckolds
     
    The 30-minus demographic in Russia is full of cucks, yes. (But that's part of being young and dumb, they'll grow up eventually.)

    A thing you need to understand: Russia still has a 'normative culture'; that is, despite your personal failings and weaknesses there is still a clear-cut understanding of a measure of 'Russianness' that you must at least try to live up to.

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

    But that’s part of being young and dumb

    Long ago, when The Guardian still had a comment section, one of the commenters said that if he had a tattoo from the time he was 18, he’d remove it. The other said that he’d leave it be, to remind him how stupid he was at 18.

  223. Ahh – Brussel’s sprouts – fine vegetables! I like the pans with the glass cover too. A pity Jon Hellevig had to pass away so soon. A down to earth man.

    Thanks for listing his articles and for making them known at your Jon Hellevig post, Anatoly Karlin!

  224. @Ano4
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Well I don't read the Economist and have no great knowledge about Deep Learning and or AI.

    CRISPR on the other hand...

    🙂

    BTW, did you read the article that I have linked?

    If not give it a try.

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros, @Daniel Chieh

    I just read the article. It’s sort of illuminating in that I never thought about the gap between reality and equivalent computer-coded information in the context of AI. The author (“Tennenbaum received his PhD in mathematics from the University of California in 1973 at age 22”) seems to make the claim that the gap is an existential threat to the future of AI.

    However, I am aware, from work as well as from attempts to digitize vinyls, that the gap exists, and that decent efforts to close it are more than enough. It also doesn’t change my initial idea, that AI has little to offer to our current problems. The few places where prediction needs more than linear regression, such as weather forecasts or trading, seem to have reached their limits long time ago. The way we accept the uncertainty surrounding Schroedinger cat, we should probably accept the uncertainty of weather forecasts.

    As a Millenial, I have seen no noticeable progress in prediction science since I first heard about it, so it feels Lindy to assume this is the best we can get.

    More to the point, I’ve grown to see the complete void behind public health decisions. Even focus groups famously used by Western leaders in the nineties are abandoned. Trump shitposts that covid may be dominated because he is terrified US shares will collapse. Pelosi says we must wear masks because she ants to piss off Trump. Merkel pretends she cares about Pelosi’s point, but keeps her country open and ready to compete with US. (Every sort of biotech was working through the crisis, in both countries, even if it was unrelated to the virus. Airplane engine manufacturing continued, to the point that US DOD paid GE Aviation to carry on work, although prospects for civilian orders looked grim.) Iohannis opens whatever factories and airports Merkel says must open. That is your decision chain, with no opportunity for any kind of intelligence, artificial or otherwise.

  225. @Blinky Bill
    @Mr. Hack

    More authentic depiction.

    https://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-photo-peasant-with-damaged-carrots-on-his-garden-284088467.jpg

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSWLJPNff-GeHkAJ70Za5nJgv8G85Bk553rJIxMxGKN2W7ddPdD&usqp.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Great folks, I’ve known a lot o them in my life. Watched my elderly uncle once shoveling out potatoes out of the ground in late summer (I almost cried). These people know what it means to get your back into your living. I know what kind of back breaking work this can entail, I’ve had a few of my own hobby gardens in the past.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  226. @AnonFromTN
    @Ano4


    the Volga Tatars have more Slav admixture than the Central Asian Turks.
     
    Maybe because they were in the habit of washing themselves? Of course, cruel Russian colonizers forced Central Asians to wash, brush their teeth, and treat women as humans. Now gloriously independent Central Asian nations abandoned all these degrading practices and turned back to their roots. It’s their culture.

    Replies: @Ano4

    Quite simply, Ural/Volga and Southern Siberia are a very important spot for the origin and/or evolution of different ethnic groups.

    These regions were populated by haplogroups R1a, R1b, Q since the earliest times.

    As a consequence, Slavs and Turks share haplogroup R1a, although branches of this haplogroup are different.

    Turks have inherited the “Scythian” Indo-Iranian branch.

    Other Turks have haplogroup R1b, Bashkirs for example are direct descendants of the Yamnaya people and subsequent Sarmatian populations.

    Uighur people have R1a, R1b and the Extreme Oriental Y haplogroups that they share with Chinese, Tibetans etc.

    For the admixture: Tatar raiders carried their slave caravans captured in the ancient Rus territory back home to the Volga Saray region.

    They copulated with the beautiful Slav female captives and had children.

    Children were integrated into the Horde…

    🙂

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ano4


    Turks have inherited the “Scythian” Indo-Iranian branch.
     
    And Ukrainian lands had small contact with Scythians or their relatives the Sarmatians? I suppose that once these colonizing elements in Ukraine disappeared, they moved to Turkey?

    Replies: @Ano4

    , @AnonFromTN
    @Ano4

    I know quite a few Tatars, most have Russian spouses. So, if the genetic analysis is relatively recent, that is a huge contributor. Don’t know much about Central Asia. There were three pretty Kazakh girls in my class at Moscow University. They avoided Kazakh boys like a plague. All married non-Kazakhs.

    Replies: @Ano4

  227. @Ano4
    @AnonFromTN

    Quite simply, Ural/Volga and Southern Siberia are a very important spot for the origin and/or evolution of different ethnic groups.

    These regions were populated by haplogroups R1a, R1b, Q since the earliest times.

    As a consequence, Slavs and Turks share haplogroup R1a, although branches of this haplogroup are different.

    Turks have inherited the "Scythian" Indo-Iranian branch.

    Other Turks have haplogroup R1b, Bashkirs for example are direct descendants of the Yamnaya people and subsequent Sarmatian populations.

    Uighur people have R1a, R1b and the Extreme Oriental Y haplogroups that they share with Chinese, Tibetans etc.

    For the admixture: Tatar raiders carried their slave caravans captured in the ancient Rus territory back home to the Volga Saray region.

    They copulated with the beautiful Slav female captives and had children.

    Children were integrated into the Horde...

    🙂

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonFromTN

    Turks have inherited the “Scythian” Indo-Iranian branch.

    And Ukrainian lands had small contact with Scythians or their relatives the Sarmatians? I suppose that once these colonizing elements in Ukraine disappeared, they moved to Turkey?

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Mr. Hack

    Modern day Ukraine has a very diverse history with a rich cultural record.

    Every culture that has dominated that area at some historical period has included and integrated the populations which lived there.

    Trypolian, Scythian, Sarmatian, Goth, Slav (to name a few) have all acquired their genes from earlier populations and transmitted their genes to the people that followed.

    Modern day Ukrainian populations have obviously received the genetic material from all these ancestors.

    What is variable is the degree to which different ancient cultures made an impact on people who live there today.

    Ukrainians are mostly direct descendants of earlier Eastern Slavs and their Balto-Slavic ancestors going all the way back to Fatyanovo Culture.

    Compared to their Russian neighbors, Ukrainians have less of "Finno-Ugric" admixture (more pronounced in the North Western Russia) and have more of "Turkic" and "Vlakh" (Balkanic) admixture in the South West of Ukraine.

    But overall, Belorussian, Polish, Russian and Ukrainian populations (in alphabetical order to not hurt anyone's patriotism) are very much genetically related.

    They are more genetically related than Eastern and Western Germans or Northern and Southern Italians.

    Or maybe I should write that the differences are less significant in the case of the Slavic peoples that I have mentioned above.

  228. @Ano4
    @AnonFromTN

    Quite simply, Ural/Volga and Southern Siberia are a very important spot for the origin and/or evolution of different ethnic groups.

    These regions were populated by haplogroups R1a, R1b, Q since the earliest times.

    As a consequence, Slavs and Turks share haplogroup R1a, although branches of this haplogroup are different.

    Turks have inherited the "Scythian" Indo-Iranian branch.

    Other Turks have haplogroup R1b, Bashkirs for example are direct descendants of the Yamnaya people and subsequent Sarmatian populations.

    Uighur people have R1a, R1b and the Extreme Oriental Y haplogroups that they share with Chinese, Tibetans etc.

    For the admixture: Tatar raiders carried their slave caravans captured in the ancient Rus territory back home to the Volga Saray region.

    They copulated with the beautiful Slav female captives and had children.

    Children were integrated into the Horde...

    🙂

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonFromTN

    I know quite a few Tatars, most have Russian spouses. So, if the genetic analysis is relatively recent, that is a huge contributor. Don’t know much about Central Asia. There were three pretty Kazakh girls in my class at Moscow University. They avoided Kazakh boys like a plague. All married non-Kazakhs.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AnonFromTN

    I agree that USSR was a kind of a gigantic melting pot.

    But it only worked for a couple of generations.

    The genetic links between the different populations of the Eurasian landmass have been built on a vastly different time scale.

    Replies: @Znzn

  229. @Beckow
    @Old Palo Altan

    I know all there is to know about Franz Ferdinand, the man (and the music band). He had ambition and energy. He also made mistakes - going to freshly annexed Bosnia to do a military exercise on Serbian national day was a stupid provocation (Bosnia pre-WWII genocide was majority Serb).

    My point is not about him and his plans. My point is that an individual can hardly change the underlying realities. There was a reason Habsburg Empire was the way it was - it was a hodge-podge of feuding nations and badly defined borders. The word 'compromise' in the creation of dual monarchy in 1867 was there for a reason. The center (Vienna) simply couldn't control the Magyars and their uber-nationalist ambitions. That is assuming that they wanted to control it.

    There was no way around the fact that Slavic nations formed almost 1/2 of the Habsburg Empire, and that giving them the required representation directly conflicted with Magyar, and also German ambitions. You can't square a circle, even Franz Ferdinand had he lived couldn't do it. Trianon outcome was built into it - it ended up as bad as it did for Austrians and Magyars because they stupidly resisted and fought a losing fight far too long. That's the lesson for today. And the fact that leaders have less room to manuever than we like to pretend.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

    “I know all there is to know about Franz Ferdinand”.

    No, you know all you want to know about him, and that, quite evidently, is precious little.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Old Palo Altan

    Characterizing other people's views without addressing them is just shallow posturing.

  230. @Mikhail
    @songbird

    GF I and II are the best fictional mob movies. GF III fell short. Carlito's Way and a spinoff followup are pretty good, as well as Bronx Tale. The Soprano's is the best fictional mob TV series. The Untouchables TV series is a mix of fiction and reality.

    Some pretty good mob movies based on actual events. Goodfellas, American Gangsta and Casino come to mind.

    Replies: @songbird

    Godfather II was a well-made film, but I did not enjoy it as much as the first one. Two things: 1.) I hate a narrative that is broken up with flashbacks, and 2.) it was, IMO, a darker film. A bit too dark for me. I don’t want to spoil it by saying why.

    I remember liking The Untouchables movie, though I never saw the old show, and I know the movie wasn’t exactly true to life.

  231. @Lars Porsena
    @Europe Europa

    What the US looks like by and large:

    http://josephlorren.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/hometown-1-1024x768.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VSmarKPsXF8/TUOgNj6wSzI/AAAAAAAAAX4/J8EXv3lEADA/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/fastfood+places.jpg

    Quebec:

    http://i2.wp.com/justingoesplaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/20141225_105752_1.jpg

    Mexico:

    http://internationalliving.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/San-Miguel-Mexico.jpg
    https://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-photo-campeche-city-in-mexico-colonial-architecture-276448058.jpg
    https://cdn.theculturetrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/chol.jpg

    Replies: @AP

    Savannah, Georgia:

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    @AP

    There are some places in the US. It's not all strip malls. I was basically making the same argument as your reply to him but in pictures.

    I am not impressed by your photos of Savannah though, they don't do it justice. The fountain is tiny compared to that ridiculous castle in Quebec or the cathedrals in Mexico. And the close up buildings don't even look that old or decorative apart from having paved roads. The building faces look like side brick by old Chicago standards. Savannah and Charleston have better. And Georgetown.

    Chicago:

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/architecture-org/files/events/tour-jackson-boulevard-historic-district-02.jpg

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3462/3353921910_31db778952.jpg

    https://liber.post-gazette.com/image/2014/06/27/ca13,0,2210,1473/the-neighborhood-of-pilsen-in-chicago.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/37/e6/46/37e64628678b6c08bdf8bc7ba2600147.jpg

    Still though, I'd say Quebec and the colonial towns in Mexico look more like Europe to me. Plus it allows Americans to be in a different country that speaks a different language which is more like Europe.

    Replies: @AP, @Europe Europa

  232. @AP
    @Lars Porsena

    Savannah, Georgia:

    https://www.vacationhomesofhiltonhead.com/sites/default/files/uploads/downtown_savannah.jpg

    https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/01/07/USAT/f8a7ca66-74dc-4be4-8428-4c10eba416be-GettyImages-860868486.jpg

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    There are some places in the US. It’s not all strip malls. I was basically making the same argument as your reply to him but in pictures.

    I am not impressed by your photos of Savannah though, they don’t do it justice. The fountain is tiny compared to that ridiculous castle in Quebec or the cathedrals in Mexico. And the close up buildings don’t even look that old or decorative apart from having paved roads. The building faces look like side brick by old Chicago standards. Savannah and Charleston have better. And Georgetown.

    Chicago:

    Still though, I’d say Quebec and the colonial towns in Mexico look more like Europe to me. Plus it allows Americans to be in a different country that speaks a different language which is more like Europe.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @AP
    @Lars Porsena

    There are two phenomena at work here: beauty; and being European-looking.

    Europeans (whether in Europe or in North America) for the most part stopped building beautiful cities in the early to mid 20th century. The cutoff was sometime around World War II.

    North American cities diverged from European ones several decades before that, however.

    Chicago, built mostly in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, is beautiful but does not look like it could be in Europe. Same for places like Buffalo or Cincinnati:

    https://overtherhine.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/over-the-rhine-cincinnati-by-marc-wavra-2.jpg

    Savannah, Annapolis, Quebec City, largely built in the early 19th century or earlier, are both beautiful and they look like they could be in Europe.

    Santa Barbara is an exception. It was largely rebuilt in the 1920s, after an earthquake, in a way that was made to deliberately evoke Spain:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Santa_Barbara_Downtown_%28may_2012%29_%282%29_%28cropped%29.jpg

    , @Europe Europa
    @Lars Porsena

    The traditional style American architecture still looks distinctly American to me, not really like anything you'd see in Europe whereas traditional Latin American architecture looks almost indistinguishable from Spain/Southern Europe.

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

  233. AP says:
    @Lars Porsena
    @AP

    There are some places in the US. It's not all strip malls. I was basically making the same argument as your reply to him but in pictures.

    I am not impressed by your photos of Savannah though, they don't do it justice. The fountain is tiny compared to that ridiculous castle in Quebec or the cathedrals in Mexico. And the close up buildings don't even look that old or decorative apart from having paved roads. The building faces look like side brick by old Chicago standards. Savannah and Charleston have better. And Georgetown.

    Chicago:

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/architecture-org/files/events/tour-jackson-boulevard-historic-district-02.jpg

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3462/3353921910_31db778952.jpg

    https://liber.post-gazette.com/image/2014/06/27/ca13,0,2210,1473/the-neighborhood-of-pilsen-in-chicago.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/37/e6/46/37e64628678b6c08bdf8bc7ba2600147.jpg

    Still though, I'd say Quebec and the colonial towns in Mexico look more like Europe to me. Plus it allows Americans to be in a different country that speaks a different language which is more like Europe.

    Replies: @AP, @Europe Europa

    There are two phenomena at work here: beauty; and being European-looking.

    Europeans (whether in Europe or in North America) for the most part stopped building beautiful cities in the early to mid 20th century. The cutoff was sometime around World War II.

    North American cities diverged from European ones several decades before that, however.

    Chicago, built mostly in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, is beautiful but does not look like it could be in Europe. Same for places like Buffalo or Cincinnati:

    Savannah, Annapolis, Quebec City, largely built in the early 19th century or earlier, are both beautiful and they look like they could be in Europe.

    Santa Barbara is an exception. It was largely rebuilt in the 1920s, after an earthquake, in a way that was made to deliberately evoke Spain:

  234. ” These joggas [sic] dont drink coffee , they drink vaseline .”

    – young negro from compton ghetto upon hearing my lamentations that people wouldn’t listen when told about the implications of the cosmological so-called “axis-of-evil” unveiled by the Plank satellite imaging .

  235. The old Mpls Courthouse:

    The Mpls Institute of Arts:

    https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/minneapolis-institute-of-art-in-the-twin-cities-royalty-free-image/171354136

    Pillsbury Hall, U of M campus:

    Way too many “old money” mansions around the Lake of the Isles district. Here’s one that a good friend of mine painted one summer many years ago. We would visit him and have picnics across the street by the lake, at lunchtime.

    https://stmedia.stimg.co/1515790830_01005289737+17isles01151919308.jpg?auto=compress&crop=faces&dpr=2.625&w=412

  236. @Dmitry
    @AP


    Without America’s intense policing and incarceration, I s
     
    It can also contribute to the violence.

    I cannot speak about America, but the people I am scared of if I am in a slightly more "dangerous" part of the city, is sometimes groups who are speaking to each other with some strange slangs which are learned in prison. It's not just that the prison is selecting violent people, but that it is also contributing to their brutalization.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    It’s not just that the prison is selecting violent people, but that it is also contributing to their brutalization.

    That’s obviously true but you’ll never convince the right-wingers here of it. They’re just not sane on these issues. I don’t believe that they actually want solutions.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @dfordoom

    We can look at history of certain types of gangs like MS-13 - some of these are gangs are dominant inside prisons, and able to recruit vast numbers of people, partly as a result of the mass imprisonment situation in El Salvador.

    El Salvador is often discussed as having the second highest imprisonment rate, after USA.

    Although even the situation in El Salvador, is significantly relative to the population, than average imprisonment rates in America.

    https://i.imgur.com/HMpyuav.jpg

  237. @Mr. Hack
    @Ano4


    Turks have inherited the “Scythian” Indo-Iranian branch.
     
    And Ukrainian lands had small contact with Scythians or their relatives the Sarmatians? I suppose that once these colonizing elements in Ukraine disappeared, they moved to Turkey?

    Replies: @Ano4

    Modern day Ukraine has a very diverse history with a rich cultural record.

    Every culture that has dominated that area at some historical period has included and integrated the populations which lived there.

    Trypolian, Scythian, Sarmatian, Goth, Slav (to name a few) have all acquired their genes from earlier populations and transmitted their genes to the people that followed.

    Modern day Ukrainian populations have obviously received the genetic material from all these ancestors.

    What is variable is the degree to which different ancient cultures made an impact on people who live there today.

    Ukrainians are mostly direct descendants of earlier Eastern Slavs and their Balto-Slavic ancestors going all the way back to Fatyanovo Culture.

    Compared to their Russian neighbors, Ukrainians have less of “Finno-Ugric” admixture (more pronounced in the North Western Russia) and have more of “Turkic” and “Vlakh” (Balkanic) admixture in the South West of Ukraine.

    But overall, Belorussian, Polish, Russian and Ukrainian populations (in alphabetical order to not hurt anyone’s patriotism) are very much genetically related.

    They are more genetically related than Eastern and Western Germans or Northern and Southern Italians.

    Or maybe I should write that the differences are less significant in the case of the Slavic peoples that I have mentioned above.

  238. @AnonFromTN
    @Ano4

    I know quite a few Tatars, most have Russian spouses. So, if the genetic analysis is relatively recent, that is a huge contributor. Don’t know much about Central Asia. There were three pretty Kazakh girls in my class at Moscow University. They avoided Kazakh boys like a plague. All married non-Kazakhs.

    Replies: @Ano4

    I agree that USSR was a kind of a gigantic melting pot.

    But it only worked for a couple of generations.

    The genetic links between the different populations of the Eurasian landmass have been built on a vastly different time scale.

    • Replies: @Znzn
    @Ano4

    Well it appears Mordvinis and Finns can be grandfathered into the European group, barely, and for political reasons. Komis, Udmurts, and Chuvashes, well no.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @AP

  239. @Lars Porsena
    @AP

    There are some places in the US. It's not all strip malls. I was basically making the same argument as your reply to him but in pictures.

    I am not impressed by your photos of Savannah though, they don't do it justice. The fountain is tiny compared to that ridiculous castle in Quebec or the cathedrals in Mexico. And the close up buildings don't even look that old or decorative apart from having paved roads. The building faces look like side brick by old Chicago standards. Savannah and Charleston have better. And Georgetown.

    Chicago:

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/architecture-org/files/events/tour-jackson-boulevard-historic-district-02.jpg

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3462/3353921910_31db778952.jpg

    https://liber.post-gazette.com/image/2014/06/27/ca13,0,2210,1473/the-neighborhood-of-pilsen-in-chicago.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/37/e6/46/37e64628678b6c08bdf8bc7ba2600147.jpg

    Still though, I'd say Quebec and the colonial towns in Mexico look more like Europe to me. Plus it allows Americans to be in a different country that speaks a different language which is more like Europe.

    Replies: @AP, @Europe Europa

    The traditional style American architecture still looks distinctly American to me, not really like anything you’d see in Europe whereas traditional Latin American architecture looks almost indistinguishable from Spain/Southern Europe.

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    @Europe Europa

    I completely agree, Quebec and certain places in Mexico look far more European than the US.

    In 1890 Chicago was much more central and northern European looking. Not as much still as Mexico or Quebec. The squareness of the streets and even alignment of buildings is off compared to Europe's more meandering, jumbled, cut-off and curved layouts. As well as the wideness of all the streets rather than just central market streets (even back before cars). But it is not too dissimilar. The architecture is more similar and the scale is very similar.

    Cars did not decrease density. In cities density just increases massively and in an ugly way. The cars certainly contributed to turning the countryside into a bunch of strip malls and diverging wildly from traditional European countryside towns, as well as the sort of modular disconnectedness of suburbia. European cities have kept much more of their historical looks. But what happens in the cities is practically the opposite of what you'd expect cars to produce, mainly cars allowed more and more people to flock to the cities so they could pack into a lot of nearly Soviet style high rises and skyscrapers.

    This developed into something that looks (in terms of skyline) almost more like modern Asian cities than European ones, but without the accents of traditional asian styles.

    1890's:

    Wroclaw/Breslau Market street :
    https://external-preview.redd.it/mgbVU3tTPJRq-n9KBzjLaGqHo5TjzYngEmIXimlP5wI.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=919b164c2417af85578ef8b6c84fd13a9de9b49e

    Vienna:
    https://brewminate.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Vienna01.jpg

    Copenhagen:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/KBH_1890-1900.jpg

    Chicago:
    https://www.chicago-photographs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/historic-chicago-photos-1.jpg
    https://chicagology.com/wp-content/themes/revolution-20/goldenage/chicago1890.jpg

    Replies: @AP

  240. @Ano4
    @AnonFromTN

    I agree that USSR was a kind of a gigantic melting pot.

    But it only worked for a couple of generations.

    The genetic links between the different populations of the Eurasian landmass have been built on a vastly different time scale.

    Replies: @Znzn

    Well it appears Mordvinis and Finns can be grandfathered into the European group, barely, and for political reasons. Komis, Udmurts, and Chuvashes, well no.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @Znzn

    The Komi were historically the most 'civilized' of the legacy finnic peoples, so if anyone can be grandfathered, it's them.

    , @AP
    @Znzn

    Udmurts:

    https://edmooneyphoto.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/05.jpg

    Midsommar style:

    https://eng.fennougria.ee/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/1-3.png

  241. @Pumblechook
    @Ano4

    Yes, yes, I know it's just a lazy trope. Mais je serais choque si je trouverais un 'Yamnayen' cache dans un Hausa...

    Funnily enough, I only just stumbled across the Yamnaya, Afanasievo, Tocharians and all these hidden Indo-European delights during lockdown. I always found haplogroup talk and DNA sperg-outs boring to say the least, but I've been warming up to it! You can completely see why the Nazis got into all that mystical ancient Aryan line of business. It seems from what I can work out so far that indeed the Eastern Slavs (though also throw in Poles to the mix) or Balts seem to be the closest you can get to the inheritors of our ancient Yamna kangz.

    Alas, I am ethnically Southern European, and therefore just a miserable EEF.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Znzn

    I read somewhere that the Tocharians are 50 percent Mongoloid on the female side, so they are approximately one fourth Asian, like Chuvashes and some Tartars.

  242. @Blinky Bill
    @Pumblechook

    The wogs begin at Calais.

    😂😂😂😂

    Replies: @Znzn

    No offense, but the French in the 19th and early 20th century are the Europeans who are most enthusiastic about miscegenation with black Africans and Arabs, so if the label fits?

  243. @Znzn
    @Ano4

    Well it appears Mordvinis and Finns can be grandfathered into the European group, barely, and for political reasons. Komis, Udmurts, and Chuvashes, well no.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @AP

    The Komi were historically the most ‘civilized’ of the legacy finnic peoples, so if anyone can be grandfathered, it’s them.

  244. @Znzn
    @Ano4

    Well it appears Mordvinis and Finns can be grandfathered into the European group, barely, and for political reasons. Komis, Udmurts, and Chuvashes, well no.

    Replies: @anonymous coward, @AP

    Udmurts:

    Midsommar style:

    • Agree: Ano4
  245. @Ano4
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Well I don't read the Economist and have no great knowledge about Deep Learning and or AI.

    CRISPR on the other hand...

    🙂

    BTW, did you read the article that I have linked?

    If not give it a try.

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros, @Daniel Chieh

    I am familiar with machine learning, having worked with it on and off a bit. The problems with it ultimately are the same problems with any other expert system at the moment; it can perhaps plot out or figure an infection curve but since there’s no longer any agreement on what consistutes a “real” Corona-19 death, inaccurate guesses on infectees and poor contact tracing, we’re left with a data set of knowledge that’s highly variable. Or in the eyes of some, garbage in, garbage out.

    East Asia does have ways of automating temperature checks, with Singapore feeding the data to their smartcity networks, so some degree of expert system manipulation is probably happening there. It probably does some(much?) good, though of course temperature check isn’t the ideal corona-detector.

    This pretty cool, on that level:
    https://www.tutorialspoint.com/genetic_algorithms/genetic_algorithms_introduction.htm

    • Replies: @Znzn
    @Daniel Chieh

    A lot of Russians are white and white*, there, are you happy now?

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  246. Race is a social construct because Ryan Giggs, Alexa Chung, Kristin Kruek, and Jessica Alba are all white.

  247. @Daniel Chieh
    @Ano4

    I am familiar with machine learning, having worked with it on and off a bit. The problems with it ultimately are the same problems with any other expert system at the moment; it can perhaps plot out or figure an infection curve but since there's no longer any agreement on what consistutes a "real" Corona-19 death, inaccurate guesses on infectees and poor contact tracing, we're left with a data set of knowledge that's highly variable. Or in the eyes of some, garbage in, garbage out.

    East Asia does have ways of automating temperature checks, with Singapore feeding the data to their smartcity networks, so some degree of expert system manipulation is probably happening there. It probably does some(much?) good, though of course temperature check isn't the ideal corona-detector.

    This pretty cool, on that level:
    https://www.tutorialspoint.com/genetic_algorithms/genetic_algorithms_introduction.htm

    Replies: @Znzn

    A lot of Russians are white and white*, there, are you happy now?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Znzn

    Russians are a great POC nation, please contribute to the struggle against white supremacy by divesting yourself of your shekels.

    Currency is white, you must absolve yourself of these articles of sin; only a proper nonwhite like Karlin can redeem it from its oppressive origins.

    https://www.patreon.com/akarlin

  248. To get back to less flamebaity issues, Russia should construct a 220mph HSR from St. Petersburg to Vladivostok for fast Intercity travel, or at least upgrade the Sapsan to 220 mph from 150 mph standard, and build a 4 lane limited access motorway from Moscow to Vladivostok.

  249. British colonialism was highly privatised, the East India company, among others, was a private corporation. Blaming the British people as a whole for the legacy of colonialism seems not that far removed from blaming the actions of big corporations overseas on the native people of the country they originate from.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    @Europe Europa

    Well the EIC was given a trade monopoly by the crown and there were oversight committees of the British parliament that knew more or less what it was up to and had the power to intervene which was finally exercised after the revolt of 1857 when the UK assumed direct rule of India from the EIC.

    So this is not comparable to say blaming the US population for the misdeeds of say Coca Cola in a foreign country.

    Similarity are you going to argue that Iranian nationalists are wrong to blame the UK because the sabotaging of their nascent democracy was operationally done by AIOC(Now BP) along with the CIA and not directly by people employed by the Btitish government ?

    I don't see the point of this sort of blame laying in practical terms i.e it is not that the British or anyone else will suddenly be moved by the past misdeeds of their ancestors but I see nothing wrong in setting the historical record straight now that many generations have elapsed.

  250. @Old Palo Altan
    @Beckow

    "I know all there is to know about Franz Ferdinand".

    No, you know all you want to know about him, and that, quite evidently, is precious little.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Characterizing other people’s views without addressing them is just shallow posturing.

  251. @Znzn
    @Daniel Chieh

    A lot of Russians are white and white*, there, are you happy now?

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Russians are a great POC nation, please contribute to the struggle against white supremacy by divesting yourself of your shekels.

    Currency is white, you must absolve yourself of these articles of sin; only a proper nonwhite like Karlin can redeem it from its oppressive origins.

    https://www.patreon.com/akarlin

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • LOL: Ano4
  252. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820.g003

    According to this Udmurts are 2/3s Mongoloid, and Bashkirs are half Mongoloid, and Komis are around a fourth Mongoloid. On another topic it seems that the Russian government basically decided to prioritize the development of air and road over railways. From YouTube videos, it seems that some portions of the Trans Siberian in the Far East and Manchuria have service speeds of as low as 60 kph or less. Why doesn’t Moscow just spend money to upgrade the service speed of the line, to make intercity rail travel faster in the Russian Far East?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Znzn


    According to this Udmurts are 2/3s Mongoloid
     
    Udmurts are about 2/3 European on that chart.
  253. @AnonFromTN
    @Dmitry


    Putin is both very philosemitic, and somewhat pro-Israel.
     
    I would not bet my money one way or another. Putin strikes me as pragmatic, first and foremost. He spoiled Israeli plan to break Syria into a bunch of impotent warring Bantustans. At the same time he avoids direct confrontations with Israel, just like Israel avoids direct confrontations with Russia, as neither side wants to have more enemies in the region than they already have.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Dmitry

    spoiled Israeli plan to break Syria into a bunch of impotent warring Bantustans

    Syria is broken into Bantustans, so how can Putin stop that.

    On the other hand, an idea of Israel as some powerful country, that can internally break Arab enemy countries, is a Unz Review genre of fantasy literature. Israel cannot influence rioting Arabs in Yafo, or Haredi in Bnei Brak, or Africans across the South of Tel Aviv. Israel doesn’t have many types of normal state capacity in its own borders, so someone has to explain to me how they can influence Arabs to rebel in Syria.

    The secret of why Syria broke into Bantustans, is in such websites as IMF.

    It was the country with the lowest per capita GDP in the region, except Yemen (which also broke). People riot when they don’t have food in the fridge, and at this level, probably many Syrians cannot even pay electricity for a fridge.
    https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2019/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=51&pr.y=10&sy=2009&ey=2009&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=449%2C469%2C456%2C463%2C446&s=NGDPRPPPPC%2CNGDPDPC&grp=0&a=

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    @Dmitry

    Israel achieves a lot of things using others to do its dirty work. Syrian jihadis were armed and trained by Turkey and the US (mostly for the money provided by several Gulf satrapies), so Israel had to send just a few instructors, provided limited medical/rehabilitation services to bandits, and later accepted a bunch of members of their PR outfit, “white helmets”. Even that scum it did not take in, but handed over to greater fools, the US and Europeans.

  254. ObamaGate gets new material as Rosenstein testifies, under oath, that the FBI LIED TO HIM to justify the appointment of a Special Counsel.

    RussiaGate was always a myth (1):

    What did Rosenstein tell us, and why was it so devastating?

    –Knowing what he knows now, Rosenstein says would not have signed the FISA application to spy on Carter Page
    — Rosenstein cannot explain the basis for Mueller’s investigation of Trump-Russia collusion since, by the time Mueller was appointed in summer 2017, the FBI had already cleared the key people named as possible collaborators
    — Rosenstein set out very broad terms for the Mueller investigation. His ‘scope memos’ were widened, not narrowed, after no Trump-Russian collaboration was found
    — Although Rosenstein was responsible for supervising the Special Counsel, he testified that he exercised little hands-on oversight. He made no effort to rein in excesses
    — Though Rosenstein acknowledges serious mistakes, he blames them on the FBI’s ‘lack of candor’. His testimony portends a serious clash between DoJ and FBI officials. This blame game will soon include the CIA, State Department, and Obama White House

    Hopefully Trump’s 2nd Term will result in prosecutions. Given the Flynn precendent, he can force all of them into bankruptcy & poverty. Comey on a street corner with a tin cup and a sign that says Please Give.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://directorblue.blogspot.com/2020/06/spygate-rosenstein-revenge-on-comey-and.html

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @A123

    https://theduran.com/corrupt-rosenstein-throws-corrupt-mueller-under-the-bus-video/

  255. @dfordoom
    @Dmitry


    It’s not just that the prison is selecting violent people, but that it is also contributing to their brutalization.
     
    That's obviously true but you'll never convince the right-wingers here of it. They're just not sane on these issues. I don't believe that they actually want solutions.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    We can look at history of certain types of gangs like MS-13 – some of these are gangs are dominant inside prisons, and able to recruit vast numbers of people, partly as a result of the mass imprisonment situation in El Salvador.

    El Salvador is often discussed as having the second highest imprisonment rate, after USA.

    Although even the situation in El Salvador, is significantly relative to the population, than average imprisonment rates in America.

  256. @Hyperborean
    @Dmitry


    In most places, you can see >95% leftists/liberals have partners from their own nationality or at least race. E.g. even in America, Vermont, the most liberal state, is the most white state.
     
    More likely a function of demographics.

    Another factor is the difference in the racial and ethnic composition of each type of area. Non-metro areas have a relatively large share of white newlyweds (83% vs. 62% in metro areas), and whites are far less likely to intermarry than those of other races or ethnicities. At the same time, metro areas have larger shares of Hispanics and Asians, who have very high rates of intermarriage. While 26% of newlyweds in metro areas are Hispanic or Asian, this share is 10% for newlyweds in non-metro areas.

     

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/pst_2017-05-15-intermarriage-01-03/

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Sure, the fact liberals are marrying people of their own race, is mostly just because of bourgeois demographics.

    I was just adding a funny fact, that a leader of the American Alt-Right, doesn’t produce children of his own race, but has cosmopolitan mix-race children, while even almost all their liberal opponents have white children, and married a partner of the same race. It’s reductio ad absurdum.

    That’s not to say, that there is something wrong with mixed-nationality marriage and children, if partners were compatible in more important ways.

    From children’s perspective – which is the relevant one – you’ll care about the personality of your parents, not their nationality.

  257. @A123
    ObamaGate gets new material as Rosenstein testifies, under oath, that the FBI LIED TO HIM to justify the appointment of a Special Counsel.

    RussiaGate was always a myth (1):

    What did Rosenstein tell us, and why was it so devastating?

    --Knowing what he knows now, Rosenstein says would not have signed the FISA application to spy on Carter Page
    -- Rosenstein cannot explain the basis for Mueller’s investigation of Trump-Russia collusion since, by the time Mueller was appointed in summer 2017, the FBI had already cleared the key people named as possible collaborators
    -- Rosenstein set out very broad terms for the Mueller investigation. His ‘scope memos’ were widened, not narrowed, after no Trump-Russian collaboration was found
    -- Although Rosenstein was responsible for supervising the Special Counsel, he testified that he exercised little hands-on oversight. He made no effort to rein in excesses
    -- Though Rosenstein acknowledges serious mistakes, he blames them on the FBI’s ‘lack of candor’. His testimony portends a serious clash between DoJ and FBI officials. This blame game will soon include the CIA, State Department, and Obama White House
     
    Hopefully Trump's 2nd Term will result in prosecutions. Given the Flynn precendent, he can force all of them into bankruptcy & poverty. Comey on a street corner with a tin cup and a sign that says Please Give.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://directorblue.blogspot.com/2020/06/spygate-rosenstein-revenge-on-comey-and.html

    Replies: @Mikhail

  258. Chicago, built mostly in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, is beautiful

    Note photos in your post and of Lars Porsena, are mostly architecture before the prevalence of the automobile in America.

    This is one of the main reasons for the high-density of the buildings in those photos.

    Of course, it’s complicated, and there are a lot of different reasons for everything; however, lack of automobile is one of the important drivers for this kind of high density residential architecture.

    Upper and middle class people in those old times, still needed to live in the city, and there was required to be enough housing density that such people could easily access amenities, offices and school.

    So, there were made celebrated areas like Boston’s Beacon Hill, where the architects have to design attractive city-houses for high population density.

    • Replies: @Znzn
    @Dmitry

    Automobiles were widespread in the 1930s already.

    Replies: @Lars Porsena, @Dmitry

    , @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    You consider that high population density?

    This is high population density long after cars.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1BHznA44s0I/T4NWKYj4_WI/AAAAAAAAHUA/Uw4lqsNSa6o/s1600/southloop+views+state+street.jpg

    None of the buildings I posted photos of were taller than 4 stories and all of the 3-flats have yards. Small yards but still, yards.

    The back yards are bigger than the front and have garages off of alleys.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  259. @Dmitry

    Chicago, built mostly in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, is beautiful
     
    Note photos in your post and of Lars Porsena, are mostly architecture before the prevalence of the automobile in America.

    This is one of the main reasons for the high-density of the buildings in those photos.

    Of course, it's complicated, and there are a lot of different reasons for everything; however, lack of automobile is one of the important drivers for this kind of high density residential architecture.

    Upper and middle class people in those old times, still needed to live in the city, and there was required to be enough housing density that such people could easily access amenities, offices and school.

    So, there were made celebrated areas like Boston's Beacon Hill, where the architects have to design attractive city-houses for high population density.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Lars Porsena

    Automobiles were widespread in the 1930s already.

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    @Znzn

    Most of those buildings were built before the 20's and 30's. Mainly about 1880-1920.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Dmitry
    @Znzn

    Those bourgeois city houses in America, are constructed before the 1920s. After the invention of the automobile, bourgeois Americans start to flooded into low density, "sleeping areas" - i.e. the 20th century American suburb.

    As a result, in the 20th century, many high-density, inner city, mixed-use, areas, even fall in value, and become areas of the proletariat.

    For example, you can read about the history of Brooklyn. The beautiful, brownstone houses were of course originally for the bourgeoisie. Yet during the 20th century they became proletarian areas, despite having the most attractive residential architecture.

    These areas are now gentrifying. However, really they should say "re-gentrifying", as they are simply returning to their 19th century kind of demographics.

    -


    For example, an ordinary house in an area where Biggie Smalls lived now costs $1,8 million. There is a return of the bourgeoisie to those areas which had been originally built by them, but become some of the most lumpen ghettos in the 20th century.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geDreG0o7yA

    Replies: @AP

  260. @Ano4
    @Pumblechook


    Mais je serais choque si je trouverais un ‘Yamnayen’ cache dans un Hausa…
     
    Et pourtant...

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987365/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6240361/

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#Africa

    😄

    Y haplogroup R1b travelled a lot before resurgence as Bell Beaker phenomenon in Western Maghreb and Iberian peninsula.

    And original BBK people were black haired brown eyed southerners, not some nordic blue eyed Aryosophists' fetish.

    BTW, I have no idea where the certitude about Indo European affiliation of either Bell Beaker or Corded Ware or both came from in today's academic circles.

    Pots are not people, as the archeologists say.

    And pots are not languages either.

    Nobody knows for sure what language these ancient populations spoke.

    I personally like to believe that Tripolyan Culture was at the origin of the Aryan language family.

    But we have no exact knowledge about Y haplogroup of Tripolye Cucuteni people.

    Voila!

    😄

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    I don’t know about the Bell Beakers. In the past there has been a lot of theories that they were an older (maybe Early Mideast Farmer) people who were replaced by Corded Ware and the like.

    Scandinavian Battle Axe Culture was always consider an offshoot of Corded Ware.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Axe_culture

    The Battle Axe culture was an offshoot of the Corded Ware culture, and replaced the Funnelbeaker culture in southern Scandinavia, probably through a process of mass migration and population replacement. It is thought to have been responsible for spreading Indo-European languages and other elements of Indo-European culture to the region. It co-existed for a time with the hunter-gatherer Pitted Ware culture, which it eventually absorbed, developing into the Nordic Bronze Age. The Nordic Bronze Age has, in turn, been considered ancestral to the Germanic peoples.

    The Battle Axe culture emerged in the south of the Scandinavian Peninsula about 2,800 BC. It was an offshoot of the Corded Ware culture, which was itself largely an offshoot of the Yamnaya culture of the Pontic-Caspian steppe. Modern genetic studies show that its emergence was accompanied by large-scale migrations and genetic displacement.

    There has been genetic testing now too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    According to Haak et al. (2015), the Corded Ware people carried mostly Western Steppe Herder (WSH) ancestry and were closely related to the people of the Yamna culture (or Yamnaya), “documenting a massive migration into the heartland of Europe from its eastern periphery,” the Eurasiatic steppes.[4] The Corded Ware culture may have disseminated the Proto-Germanic and Proto-Balto-Slavic Indo-European languages. The Corded Ware Culture also shows genetic affinity with the later Sintashta culture, where the Proto-Indo-Iranian language may have originated.

    The origins and dispersal of Corded Ware culture is one of the pivotal unresolved issues of the Indo-European Urheimat problem.[8] The Corded Ware culture has long been regarded as Indo-European because of its relative lack of settlements compared to preceding cultures, which suggested a mobile, pastoral economy, similar to that of the Yamna culture, and the culture of the Indo-Europeans inferred from philology. Its wide area of distribution indicates rapid expansion at the assumed time of the dispersal of Indo-European languages. Indeed, the Corded Ware culture was once presumed to be the Urheimat of the Proto-Indo-Europeans based on their possession of the horse and wheeled vehicles, apparent warlike propensities, wide area of distribution and rapid intrusive expansion at the assumed time of the dispersal of Indo-European languages.[8] Today this idea has lost currency, as the Kurgan hypothesis is currently the most widely accepted proposal to explain the origins and spread of the Indo-European languages.

    A genetic study conducted by Haak et al. (2015) found that a large proportion of the ancestry of the Corded Ware culture’s population is similar to the Yamna culture, tracing the Corded Ware culture’s origins to migrations of the Yamna from the steppes 4,500 years ago.[4] About 75% of the DNA of late Neolithic Corded Ware skeletons found in Germany was a precise match to DNA from individuals of the Yamna culture.[4] The same study estimated a 40–54% ancestral contribution of the Yamna in the DNA of modern Central & Northern Europeans, and a 20–32% contribution in modern Southern Europeans, excluding Sardinians (7.1% or less), and to a lesser extent Sicilians (11.6% or less).[4][50][51] Haak et al. also note that their results “suggest” that haplogroups R1b and R1a “spread into Europe from the East after 3,000 BCE.”[4]

    As of October 2019, the Y-DNA of more than 26 Corded Ware males has been extracted. The majority of them have been found to be carriers of haplogroup R1a. Remaining males have been found to be carriers of R1b and I2a. It is notable that although Corded Ware is presumed to be largely derived from the Yamnaya culture, most Corded Ware males carried Y-DNA of different lineages than males of the Yamnaya, who primarily carried R1b-M269. Neither R1a nor R1b-M269 have been reported among Neolithic populations of central and western Europe, although it was common among earlier hunter gatherers of Eastern Europe.

    Autosomal DNA tests also indicate that westward migration from the steppes introduced a component of ancestry referred to as “Ancient North Eurasian” admixture into western Europe.[4] “Ancient North Eurasian” is the name given in genetic literature to a component that represents descent from the people of the Mal’ta-Buret’ culture[4] or a population closely related to them.[4] The “Ancient North Eurasian” genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people[4] as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Western or Central Europeans predating the Corded Ware culture.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Lars Porsena

    Yes Battle Axe culture was Corded Ware related and dominant Y haplogroup in that culture was R1a.

    In fact I've read somewhere that earliest European R1a paleogenetics sample was found in Karelia.

    Although that doesn't prove anything, I would believe that R1a populations were already present in the Baltic region in the mesolithic.

    Bell Beaker are R1b, they have replaced the Ancient European Farmers, the Megalithic Culture of European Atlantic region and the Corded Ware people.

    The most ancient finds for Bell Beaker culture have been found in Spain and Northwest Morocco.

  261. @Znzn
    @Dmitry

    Automobiles were widespread in the 1930s already.

    Replies: @Lars Porsena, @Dmitry

    Most of those buildings were built before the 20’s and 30’s. Mainly about 1880-1920.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Lars Porsena

    Chicago was building Greystones into the 1930s:

    https://chicago.curbed.com/2015/9/3/9924658/also-home-prints

    Those neighborhoods have alleys with small garages in the back.

    Automobiles enabled the expansion of beautiful garden-like suburbs in the 1930s. Suburbia didn’t get ugly until after World War II.

  262. @Dmitry

    Chicago, built mostly in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, is beautiful
     
    Note photos in your post and of Lars Porsena, are mostly architecture before the prevalence of the automobile in America.

    This is one of the main reasons for the high-density of the buildings in those photos.

    Of course, it's complicated, and there are a lot of different reasons for everything; however, lack of automobile is one of the important drivers for this kind of high density residential architecture.

    Upper and middle class people in those old times, still needed to live in the city, and there was required to be enough housing density that such people could easily access amenities, offices and school.

    So, there were made celebrated areas like Boston's Beacon Hill, where the architects have to design attractive city-houses for high population density.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Lars Porsena

    You consider that high population density?

    This is high population density long after cars.

    None of the buildings I posted photos of were taller than 4 stories and all of the 3-flats have yards. Small yards but still, yards.

    The back yards are bigger than the front and have garages off of alleys.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Lars Porsena

    Here you post a photo of the post-automobile city life in America. Non-mixed use office area and sleeping area, and set of highways inbetween it. City is divided by different uses, and the car is the link between those areas.

    Whereas the photos you post earlier, are of pre-automobile American cities. There the middle and upper class largely still needed to live inside the city, so city houses had to be built (people cannot commute a long distance to work), and located in walkable, high population density, mixed use areas.

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

  263. @Lars Porsena
    @Ano4

    I don't know about the Bell Beakers. In the past there has been a lot of theories that they were an older (maybe Early Mideast Farmer) people who were replaced by Corded Ware and the like.

    Scandinavian Battle Axe Culture was always consider an offshoot of Corded Ware.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Axe_culture


    The Battle Axe culture was an offshoot of the Corded Ware culture, and replaced the Funnelbeaker culture in southern Scandinavia, probably through a process of mass migration and population replacement. It is thought to have been responsible for spreading Indo-European languages and other elements of Indo-European culture to the region. It co-existed for a time with the hunter-gatherer Pitted Ware culture, which it eventually absorbed, developing into the Nordic Bronze Age. The Nordic Bronze Age has, in turn, been considered ancestral to the Germanic peoples.
     

    The Battle Axe culture emerged in the south of the Scandinavian Peninsula about 2,800 BC. It was an offshoot of the Corded Ware culture, which was itself largely an offshoot of the Yamnaya culture of the Pontic-Caspian steppe. Modern genetic studies show that its emergence was accompanied by large-scale migrations and genetic displacement.
     
    There has been genetic testing now too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    According to Haak et al. (2015), the Corded Ware people carried mostly Western Steppe Herder (WSH) ancestry and were closely related to the people of the Yamna culture (or Yamnaya), "documenting a massive migration into the heartland of Europe from its eastern periphery," the Eurasiatic steppes.[4] The Corded Ware culture may have disseminated the Proto-Germanic and Proto-Balto-Slavic Indo-European languages. The Corded Ware Culture also shows genetic affinity with the later Sintashta culture, where the Proto-Indo-Iranian language may have originated.
     

    The origins and dispersal of Corded Ware culture is one of the pivotal unresolved issues of the Indo-European Urheimat problem.[8] The Corded Ware culture has long been regarded as Indo-European because of its relative lack of settlements compared to preceding cultures, which suggested a mobile, pastoral economy, similar to that of the Yamna culture, and the culture of the Indo-Europeans inferred from philology. Its wide area of distribution indicates rapid expansion at the assumed time of the dispersal of Indo-European languages. Indeed, the Corded Ware culture was once presumed to be the Urheimat of the Proto-Indo-Europeans based on their possession of the horse and wheeled vehicles, apparent warlike propensities, wide area of distribution and rapid intrusive expansion at the assumed time of the dispersal of Indo-European languages.[8] Today this idea has lost currency, as the Kurgan hypothesis is currently the most widely accepted proposal to explain the origins and spread of the Indo-European languages.
     

    A genetic study conducted by Haak et al. (2015) found that a large proportion of the ancestry of the Corded Ware culture's population is similar to the Yamna culture, tracing the Corded Ware culture's origins to migrations of the Yamna from the steppes 4,500 years ago.[4] About 75% of the DNA of late Neolithic Corded Ware skeletons found in Germany was a precise match to DNA from individuals of the Yamna culture.[4] The same study estimated a 40–54% ancestral contribution of the Yamna in the DNA of modern Central & Northern Europeans, and a 20–32% contribution in modern Southern Europeans, excluding Sardinians (7.1% or less), and to a lesser extent Sicilians (11.6% or less).[4][50][51] Haak et al. also note that their results "suggest" that haplogroups R1b and R1a "spread into Europe from the East after 3,000 BCE."[4]
     

    As of October 2019, the Y-DNA of more than 26 Corded Ware males has been extracted. The majority of them have been found to be carriers of haplogroup R1a. Remaining males have been found to be carriers of R1b and I2a. It is notable that although Corded Ware is presumed to be largely derived from the Yamnaya culture, most Corded Ware males carried Y-DNA of different lineages than males of the Yamnaya, who primarily carried R1b-M269. Neither R1a nor R1b-M269 have been reported among Neolithic populations of central and western Europe, although it was common among earlier hunter gatherers of Eastern Europe.
     

    Autosomal DNA tests also indicate that westward migration from the steppes introduced a component of ancestry referred to as "Ancient North Eurasian" admixture into western Europe.[4] "Ancient North Eurasian" is the name given in genetic literature to a component that represents descent from the people of the Mal'ta-Buret' culture[4] or a population closely related to them.[4] The "Ancient North Eurasian" genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people[4] as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Western or Central Europeans predating the Corded Ware culture.
     

    Replies: @Ano4

    Yes Battle Axe culture was Corded Ware related and dominant Y haplogroup in that culture was R1a.

    In fact I’ve read somewhere that earliest European R1a paleogenetics sample was found in Karelia.

    Although that doesn’t prove anything, I would believe that R1a populations were already present in the Baltic region in the mesolithic.

    Bell Beaker are R1b, they have replaced the Ancient European Farmers, the Megalithic Culture of European Atlantic region and the Corded Ware people.

    The most ancient finds for Bell Beaker culture have been found in Spain and Northwest Morocco.

  264. Fascinating map. Might take a few seconds to understand, but well worth it.

    [MORE]

  265. @Europe Europa
    @Lars Porsena

    The traditional style American architecture still looks distinctly American to me, not really like anything you'd see in Europe whereas traditional Latin American architecture looks almost indistinguishable from Spain/Southern Europe.

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    I completely agree, Quebec and certain places in Mexico look far more European than the US.

    In 1890 Chicago was much more central and northern European looking. Not as much still as Mexico or Quebec. The squareness of the streets and even alignment of buildings is off compared to Europe’s more meandering, jumbled, cut-off and curved layouts. As well as the wideness of all the streets rather than just central market streets (even back before cars). But it is not too dissimilar. The architecture is more similar and the scale is very similar.

    Cars did not decrease density. In cities density just increases massively and in an ugly way. The cars certainly contributed to turning the countryside into a bunch of strip malls and diverging wildly from traditional European countryside towns, as well as the sort of modular disconnectedness of suburbia. European cities have kept much more of their historical looks. But what happens in the cities is practically the opposite of what you’d expect cars to produce, mainly cars allowed more and more people to flock to the cities so they could pack into a lot of nearly Soviet style high rises and skyscrapers.

    This developed into something that looks (in terms of skyline) almost more like modern Asian cities than European ones, but without the accents of traditional asian styles.

    1890’s:

    Wroclaw/Breslau Market street :
    Vienna:
    Copenhagen:
    Chicago:https://chicagology.com/wp-content/themes/revolution-20/goldenage/chicago1890.jpg

    • Replies: @AP
    @Lars Porsena

    Wider streets, more grids, and especially building height differentiate pre-war American from pre-war European cities. The world’s first skyscraper was built in Chicago in the 1880s.

  266. @Lars Porsena
    @Znzn

    Most of those buildings were built before the 20's and 30's. Mainly about 1880-1920.

    Replies: @AP

    Chicago was building Greystones into the 1930s:

    https://chicago.curbed.com/2015/9/3/9924658/also-home-prints

    Those neighborhoods have alleys with small garages in the back.

    Automobiles enabled the expansion of beautiful garden-like suburbs in the 1930s. Suburbia didn’t get ugly until after World War II.

  267. @Lars Porsena
    @Europe Europa

    I completely agree, Quebec and certain places in Mexico look far more European than the US.

    In 1890 Chicago was much more central and northern European looking. Not as much still as Mexico or Quebec. The squareness of the streets and even alignment of buildings is off compared to Europe's more meandering, jumbled, cut-off and curved layouts. As well as the wideness of all the streets rather than just central market streets (even back before cars). But it is not too dissimilar. The architecture is more similar and the scale is very similar.

    Cars did not decrease density. In cities density just increases massively and in an ugly way. The cars certainly contributed to turning the countryside into a bunch of strip malls and diverging wildly from traditional European countryside towns, as well as the sort of modular disconnectedness of suburbia. European cities have kept much more of their historical looks. But what happens in the cities is practically the opposite of what you'd expect cars to produce, mainly cars allowed more and more people to flock to the cities so they could pack into a lot of nearly Soviet style high rises and skyscrapers.

    This developed into something that looks (in terms of skyline) almost more like modern Asian cities than European ones, but without the accents of traditional asian styles.

    1890's:

    Wroclaw/Breslau Market street :
    https://external-preview.redd.it/mgbVU3tTPJRq-n9KBzjLaGqHo5TjzYngEmIXimlP5wI.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=919b164c2417af85578ef8b6c84fd13a9de9b49e

    Vienna:
    https://brewminate.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Vienna01.jpg

    Copenhagen:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/KBH_1890-1900.jpg

    Chicago:
    https://www.chicago-photographs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/historic-chicago-photos-1.jpg
    https://chicagology.com/wp-content/themes/revolution-20/goldenage/chicago1890.jpg

    Replies: @AP

    Wider streets, more grids, and especially building height differentiate pre-war American from pre-war European cities. The world’s first skyscraper was built in Chicago in the 1880s.

  268. @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    You consider that high population density?

    This is high population density long after cars.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1BHznA44s0I/T4NWKYj4_WI/AAAAAAAAHUA/Uw4lqsNSa6o/s1600/southloop+views+state+street.jpg

    None of the buildings I posted photos of were taller than 4 stories and all of the 3-flats have yards. Small yards but still, yards.

    The back yards are bigger than the front and have garages off of alleys.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Here you post a photo of the post-automobile city life in America. Non-mixed use office area and sleeping area, and set of highways inbetween it. City is divided by different uses, and the car is the link between those areas.

    Whereas the photos you post earlier, are of pre-automobile American cities. There the middle and upper class largely still needed to live inside the city, so city houses had to be built (people cannot commute a long distance to work), and located in walkable, high population density, mixed use areas.

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    But the photo has residential housing in those skyscrapers. You are right that it is not mixed like it use to be, residential building and office building are separate. But the residential building is half a block from the office building, you don't need the highway to get there.

    So city houses are still built right next to city offices. They are both built in much higher density than they use to be back when you had to walk places.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  269. @Znzn
    @Dmitry

    Automobiles were widespread in the 1930s already.

    Replies: @Lars Porsena, @Dmitry

    Those bourgeois city houses in America, are constructed before the 1920s. After the invention of the automobile, bourgeois Americans start to flooded into low density, “sleeping areas” – i.e. the 20th century American suburb.

    As a result, in the 20th century, many high-density, inner city, mixed-use, areas, even fall in value, and become areas of the proletariat.

    For example, you can read about the history of Brooklyn. The beautiful, brownstone houses were of course originally for the bourgeoisie. Yet during the 20th century they became proletarian areas, despite having the most attractive residential architecture.

    These areas are now gentrifying. However, really they should say “re-gentrifying”, as they are simply returning to their 19th century kind of demographics.

    For example, an ordinary house in an area where Biggie Smalls lived now costs $1,8 million. There is a return of the bourgeoisie to those areas which had been originally built by them, but become some of the most lumpen ghettos in the 20th century.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    Those bourgeois city houses in America, are constructed before the 1920s. After the invention of the automobile, bourgeois Americans start to flooded into low density, “sleeping areas” – i.e. the 20th century American suburb.
     
    In the USA, mass production of automobiles began prior to 1920. So by 1927, 15 million mass-produced Ford Model Ts had been made. By 1929, 80% of American families had at least one automobile.

    Accordingly, the first auto-based suburbs appeared in the USA around 1910:

    https://www.livingplaces.com/Automobile_Suburbs.html

    The city houses you describe were built into the 1930s. You are missing a 30 year period (c. 1910 to 1940) when America had both pretty architecture and much of it was car-based.

    For example, a house for an automobile suburb built in the 1920s in Lexington Kentucky:

    https://i0.wp.com/lexlover.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/chevychase-02.jpg

    Another automobile suburban community:

    https://i.imgur.com/Tn1M67a.jpg

    Replies: @Dmitry

  270. @Dmitry
    @Lars Porsena

    Here you post a photo of the post-automobile city life in America. Non-mixed use office area and sleeping area, and set of highways inbetween it. City is divided by different uses, and the car is the link between those areas.

    Whereas the photos you post earlier, are of pre-automobile American cities. There the middle and upper class largely still needed to live inside the city, so city houses had to be built (people cannot commute a long distance to work), and located in walkable, high population density, mixed use areas.

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    But the photo has residential housing in those skyscrapers. You are right that it is not mixed like it use to be, residential building and office building are separate. But the residential building is half a block from the office building, you don’t need the highway to get there.

    So city houses are still built right next to city offices. They are both built in much higher density than they use to be back when you had to walk places.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Lars Porsena

    Those are residential apartments towers, in a segmented area which is separate from the office towers. Those are a bit like a dormitory of mainly young professionals who don't want to commute a long distance to the office towers. It's no longer a "real neighbourhood", with schools, shops, etc.

    This photo of Chicago is a kind of apotheosis of the car's effect on the city. There are the office towers, which are only used in the daytime, and empty at night. Then there are some residential apartment towers, for people who want somewhere to sleep inside the city.

    Then perhaps there is a "skid row", with the lumpen proletariat, who are almost the only people without a car in America.

    Where is all the middle class life of the city? Most of the people are living kilometres away in low density suburbs, where they will drive to the city (almost like tourists) in order to use its amenities - but without contributing their life to the city by actually living in it.

    I'm not suggesting to "romanticize the past", as city conditions could be quite horrible, including in America. But sometime in the early 20th century, the "vitality and life" of the city has emigrated from it to distant suburbs.

    Replies: @Europe Europa, @Lars Porsena

  271. @Znzn
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820.g003

    According to this Udmurts are 2/3s Mongoloid, and Bashkirs are half Mongoloid, and Komis are around a fourth Mongoloid. On another topic it seems that the Russian government basically decided to prioritize the development of air and road over railways. From YouTube videos, it seems that some portions of the Trans Siberian in the Far East and Manchuria have service speeds of as low as 60 kph or less. Why doesn't Moscow just spend money to upgrade the service speed of the line, to make intercity rail travel faster in the Russian Far East?

    Replies: @AP

    According to this Udmurts are 2/3s Mongoloid

    Udmurts are about 2/3 European on that chart.

  272. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @Znzn

    Those bourgeois city houses in America, are constructed before the 1920s. After the invention of the automobile, bourgeois Americans start to flooded into low density, "sleeping areas" - i.e. the 20th century American suburb.

    As a result, in the 20th century, many high-density, inner city, mixed-use, areas, even fall in value, and become areas of the proletariat.

    For example, you can read about the history of Brooklyn. The beautiful, brownstone houses were of course originally for the bourgeoisie. Yet during the 20th century they became proletarian areas, despite having the most attractive residential architecture.

    These areas are now gentrifying. However, really they should say "re-gentrifying", as they are simply returning to their 19th century kind of demographics.

    -


    For example, an ordinary house in an area where Biggie Smalls lived now costs $1,8 million. There is a return of the bourgeoisie to those areas which had been originally built by them, but become some of the most lumpen ghettos in the 20th century.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geDreG0o7yA

    Replies: @AP

    Those bourgeois city houses in America, are constructed before the 1920s. After the invention of the automobile, bourgeois Americans start to flooded into low density, “sleeping areas” – i.e. the 20th century American suburb.

    In the USA, mass production of automobiles began prior to 1920. So by 1927, 15 million mass-produced Ford Model Ts had been made. By 1929, 80% of American families had at least one automobile.

    Accordingly, the first auto-based suburbs appeared in the USA around 1910:

    https://www.livingplaces.com/Automobile_Suburbs.html

    The city houses you describe were built into the 1930s. You are missing a 30 year period (c. 1910 to 1940) when America had both pretty architecture and much of it was car-based.

    For example, a house for an automobile suburb built in the 1920s in Lexington Kentucky:

    Another automobile suburban community:

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    automobile suburban community:

     

    Yes, and this is the typical American bourgeois 20th century low density suburbia, which was a result of the rise of the automobile. Lars was posting photos of high-density 19th century American city houses.

    The former, unfortunately, killed the demand for the latter, until recently.

    The low density suburbia might be pleasant for people who live in the house, and the mass construction of such places has boosted America's standard of living in the 20th century, by allowing a "country lifestyle" to extend to wider classes.

    However, unless the houses there are used mainly as country weekend homes (and I know they are not), such suburbs are deadly for the development of the city, other things equal. You replace the construction of mixed use neighborhoods inside the city, that can be enjoyed by non-residents and on foot, with residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit (as it covers large distance, its low density becomes monotonous, and it does not have mixed-use - they only are sleeping districts).

    Replies: @Mikel, @AP

  273. @AP
    @Dmitry


    Those bourgeois city houses in America, are constructed before the 1920s. After the invention of the automobile, bourgeois Americans start to flooded into low density, “sleeping areas” – i.e. the 20th century American suburb.
     
    In the USA, mass production of automobiles began prior to 1920. So by 1927, 15 million mass-produced Ford Model Ts had been made. By 1929, 80% of American families had at least one automobile.

    Accordingly, the first auto-based suburbs appeared in the USA around 1910:

    https://www.livingplaces.com/Automobile_Suburbs.html

    The city houses you describe were built into the 1930s. You are missing a 30 year period (c. 1910 to 1940) when America had both pretty architecture and much of it was car-based.

    For example, a house for an automobile suburb built in the 1920s in Lexington Kentucky:

    https://i0.wp.com/lexlover.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/chevychase-02.jpg

    Another automobile suburban community:

    https://i.imgur.com/Tn1M67a.jpg

    Replies: @Dmitry

    automobile suburban community:

    Yes, and this is the typical American bourgeois 20th century low density suburbia, which was a result of the rise of the automobile. Lars was posting photos of high-density 19th century American city houses.

    The former, unfortunately, killed the demand for the latter, until recently.

    The low density suburbia might be pleasant for people who live in the house, and the mass construction of such places has boosted America’s standard of living in the 20th century, by allowing a “country lifestyle” to extend to wider classes.

    However, unless the houses there are used mainly as country weekend homes (and I know they are not), such suburbs are deadly for the development of the city, other things equal. You replace the construction of mixed use neighborhoods inside the city, that can be enjoyed by non-residents and on foot, with residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit (as it covers large distance, its low density becomes monotonous, and it does not have mixed-use – they only are sleeping districts).

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit
     
    IOW, an ideal place to live in for a family. Although I prefer -and have- a small farm in the outskirts of a big city, surrounded by nature and beautiful landscapes.

    Why would anyone want to live in the noisy, polluted center of a big city? Even if you are a party animal who goes clubbing all the time, you're still going to need some means of transport in any decent-sized city so you might as well live in the quiet, clean suburbs.

    There is a reason why most Americans and most wealthy Europeans prefer this choice. Nobody imposes it on them.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @AP
    @Dmitry


    The low density suburbia might be pleasant for people who live in the house, and the mass construction of such places has boosted America’s standard of living in the 20th century, by allowing a “country lifestyle” to extend to wider classes.
     
    Well, yes.

    However, unless the houses there are used mainly as country weekend homes (and I know they are not), such suburbs are deadly for the development of the city, other things equal. You replace the construction of mixed use neighborhoods inside the city, that can be enjoyed by non-residents and on foot, with residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit (as it covers large distance, its low density becomes monotonous, and it does not have mixed-use – they only are sleeping districts).
     
    I actually agree with Mikel. It is not pleasant to live in a place packed with tourists. And when one has a family, a private yard is a very good thing. This also makes it more convenient to have dogs, which is also good for families. Some cities in this world such as Moscow are so wonderful and world class that it is worth the sacrifice, but for most - a suburban lifestyle is better. Although with a major caveat - beauty is important, and unfortunately only the first few decades of suburbia were built when people still demanded beautiful surroundings. When the GIs came home from the war these people, used to living in barracks, bulldozed the countryside and built ugly homes that aesthetically were like barracks.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  274. @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    But the photo has residential housing in those skyscrapers. You are right that it is not mixed like it use to be, residential building and office building are separate. But the residential building is half a block from the office building, you don't need the highway to get there.

    So city houses are still built right next to city offices. They are both built in much higher density than they use to be back when you had to walk places.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Those are residential apartments towers, in a segmented area which is separate from the office towers. Those are a bit like a dormitory of mainly young professionals who don’t want to commute a long distance to the office towers. It’s no longer a “real neighbourhood”, with schools, shops, etc.

    This photo of Chicago is a kind of apotheosis of the car’s effect on the city. There are the office towers, which are only used in the daytime, and empty at night. Then there are some residential apartment towers, for people who want somewhere to sleep inside the city.

    Then perhaps there is a “skid row”, with the lumpen proletariat, who are almost the only people without a car in America.

    Where is all the middle class life of the city? Most of the people are living kilometres away in low density suburbs, where they will drive to the city (almost like tourists) in order to use its amenities – but without contributing their life to the city by actually living in it.

    I’m not suggesting to “romanticize the past”, as city conditions could be quite horrible, including in America. But sometime in the early 20th century, the “vitality and life” of the city has emigrated from it to distant suburbs.

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
    @Dmitry

    Interestingly in major British cities it's fairly common not to have a car, especially in London but even in the others. Public transport is seen as good enough that owning a car is regarded by many as an unnecessary hassle unless they specifically need one to drive to smaller towns on a regular basis.

    Car-dominated "suburbia" has never taken off in the UK like in the US, I think the difference is people even on the outskirts of British cities expect good public transport links, also I think British "green belt" laws prevent the sort of endless urban sprawl you see in America, it gets broken up by design.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    There is more going on here. I think you are wrong to blame skyscrapers or the Un-livability of the city on just cars.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/overview-of-suburbs-1435799


    Rapid growth of suburbia characterized the post-World War II era for three chief reasons:
    The economic boom following World War II
    The need for housing returning veterans and baby boomers relatively cheaply
    Whites fleeing the desegregation of urban cities brought on by the civil rights movement (the "White Flight")
     
    AP is certainly right that a lot of crap ass ugly suburbs started being built after WWII, and the reason was indeed to provide incredibly cheap housing. It would not have been possible without cars and the national highway system. But looking at the economics here tells us that whatever was going on in 1947, a lot has changed since then and something else is up.

    I live in the suburbs and I think they are great. However, the suburbs I like (if you can afford them) and the suburbs that make sense look like this:

    https://www.americancommunities.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/iStock-171147284-1024x683.jpg

    https://www.llewellynpark.com/hoa/assn13266/images/rotator-slide-2.jpg

    https://activerain-store.s3.amazonaws.com/image_store/uploads/8/9/2/1/0/ar127230909201298.jpg

    The 1st one is more modern like where I live on the outskirts of Chicago, the 2nd 2 (Llewellyn Park) are a suburb built in 1853.

    But suburbs make absolutely no sense being outside the city if they look like this:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/02/8f/59028f38592fa73a8bac635c0f6f5c5e.jpg

    That is a Levittown development, the original modern US suburb built after WWII to provide dirt cheap housing for GIs. Many suburbs still look like this and they are all over around me, I personally hate them. But they are not really that cheap anymore.

    https://cdn.britannica.com/40/153540-004-D1C39C90.jpg

    In that article I linked:

    Suburbs are not a modern concept, as this 539 BCE clay tablet letter from an early suburbanite to the king of Persia makes clear:
    "Our property seems to me the most beautiful in the world. It is so close to Babylon that we enjoy all the advantages of the city, and yet when we come home we stay away from all the noise and dust."
     
    Suburbs make perfect sense if you want to have a large yard, to live on a Gentleman's (non-working) farm. The earlier style of suburbs, which still exist and get built, satisfy this. The later style suburb, which are the most plentiful, do not.

    The amount of yard you get with those suburbs, and the size of the house, and for the price, you may as well live in a low density part of the city. There are still many neighborhoods in the city like that, those 3-flats, and a lot of those neighborhoods are Mexican now. Mexicans in Chicago still largely live and work in cohesive neighborhoods, the ones originally inhabited by Irish, Czechs and Poles. There are still some white ones too (like Mt. Greenwood, where a lot of Chicago cops live, but those are way more money).

    The Mexicans moved there when the price had crashed in value after white flight, but they have largely gentrified their own neighborhoods. One of those 3 flats in the city will cost you about the same ($200-300k for a 3-flat built around 1895) as one of those Levittown houses in the suburbs built in 1970. So why live in the Levittown suburbs even? You don't get any more privacy or any more yard.

    You say the proles who can't afford private transit live in the city but here are what new 3-flats being built look like in Lincoln Park.

    http://www.goldcoastrealty-chicago.com/images/luxury_854.jpg

    Those are about $1.5 million. Contrastingly, for that amount of money, you could probably get into a garden mansion in Llewellyn in the suburbs. The middle class has a hard time pricing themselves into decent neighborhoods in the city, unless they are Mexican.

    But there is a huge difference in price depending entirely on what neighborhood you live in. That is a big part of the white flight aspect which started around the 60's. Those Mexican neighborhoods where the houses cost as much as the suburbs and are comparable, often nearby there are black neighborhoods where the the price is dirt cheap. Recently in Chicago the LA Kings were defending their neighborhood property values in ways white people don't do except with cops.

    Another aspect is the high rises. People want yards and they want to get away from those high rises to raise families, as well as get away from nearby areas they don't like within walking distance. That high density high-rise unlivable development builds suburbs and sends people out to them. So it is related but I think you have causality somewhat reversed, flight to the suburb didn't build the city like that, it was the city developing like that that built the suburbs.

    I always get a kick out of rich people paying literally millions of dollars for a condo on ultra trendy Rush St. and then complaining that a homeless man pooped on their doormat. And that there are condoms and needles scattered all around their car because people are having sex and shooting drugs in the alley behind their house when the bars close at 2AM.

    That is the other aspect that powered a huge part of Levittown style suburb development, the desire to get away from the negative things going on in the city. Not away from those 3-flats into an equivalent density postage-stamp ranch house suburb, but away from the social dynamics and the high-rises. Cars enable them to do this but the cars are not what's driving it.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @Mr. Hack

  275. @Dmitry
    @AP


    automobile suburban community:

     

    Yes, and this is the typical American bourgeois 20th century low density suburbia, which was a result of the rise of the automobile. Lars was posting photos of high-density 19th century American city houses.

    The former, unfortunately, killed the demand for the latter, until recently.

    The low density suburbia might be pleasant for people who live in the house, and the mass construction of such places has boosted America's standard of living in the 20th century, by allowing a "country lifestyle" to extend to wider classes.

    However, unless the houses there are used mainly as country weekend homes (and I know they are not), such suburbs are deadly for the development of the city, other things equal. You replace the construction of mixed use neighborhoods inside the city, that can be enjoyed by non-residents and on foot, with residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit (as it covers large distance, its low density becomes monotonous, and it does not have mixed-use - they only are sleeping districts).

    Replies: @Mikel, @AP

    residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit

    IOW, an ideal place to live in for a family. Although I prefer -and have- a small farm in the outskirts of a big city, surrounded by nature and beautiful landscapes.

    Why would anyone want to live in the noisy, polluted center of a big city? Even if you are a party animal who goes clubbing all the time, you’re still going to need some means of transport in any decent-sized city so you might as well live in the quiet, clean suburbs.

    There is a reason why most Americans and most wealthy Europeans prefer this choice. Nobody imposes it on them.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel

    18th century and 19th century history of cities like London, was of people avoiding the "noisy, polluted center of a big city" (an example of a noisy polluted area is where Karl Marx was living in London).

    However, to do this, the bourgeoisie constructed beautiful, high-density, mixed use residential districts - as in the area where Engels lived, shown above. You can avoid the polluted centre of the city, and build such beautiful, high-density, mixed-use districts.

    It is after the prevalance of the automobile, however, that the requirement is removed for high-density, mixed use areas, which create interesting experiences for non-residents. This sprawl allows for more lower middle classes of people to live in spacious houses. On the other hand, automobile is enabling preconditions for the "soulless", mono-use, suburban sprawl of 20th century America (and also a lot of Western Europe).

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

  276. @Dmitry
    @AnonFromTN


    spoiled Israeli plan to break Syria into a bunch of impotent warring Bantustans
     
    Syria is broken into Bantustans, so how can Putin stop that.

    On the other hand, an idea of Israel as some powerful country, that can internally break Arab enemy countries, is a Unz Review genre of fantasy literature. Israel cannot influence rioting Arabs in Yafo, or Haredi in Bnei Brak, or Africans across the South of Tel Aviv. Israel doesn't have many types of normal state capacity in its own borders, so someone has to explain to me how they can influence Arabs to rebel in Syria.

    The secret of why Syria broke into Bantustans, is in such websites as IMF.

    It was the country with the lowest per capita GDP in the region, except Yemen (which also broke). People riot when they don't have food in the fridge, and at this level, probably many Syrians cannot even pay electricity for a fridge.
    https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2019/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=51&pr.y=10&sy=2009&ey=2009&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=449%2C469%2C456%2C463%2C446&s=NGDPRPPPPC%2CNGDPDPC&grp=0&a=

    Replies: @AnonFromTN

    Israel achieves a lot of things using others to do its dirty work. Syrian jihadis were armed and trained by Turkey and the US (mostly for the money provided by several Gulf satrapies), so Israel had to send just a few instructors, provided limited medical/rehabilitation services to bandits, and later accepted a bunch of members of their PR outfit, “white helmets”. Even that scum it did not take in, but handed over to greater fools, the US and Europeans.

  277. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @AP


    automobile suburban community:

     

    Yes, and this is the typical American bourgeois 20th century low density suburbia, which was a result of the rise of the automobile. Lars was posting photos of high-density 19th century American city houses.

    The former, unfortunately, killed the demand for the latter, until recently.

    The low density suburbia might be pleasant for people who live in the house, and the mass construction of such places has boosted America's standard of living in the 20th century, by allowing a "country lifestyle" to extend to wider classes.

    However, unless the houses there are used mainly as country weekend homes (and I know they are not), such suburbs are deadly for the development of the city, other things equal. You replace the construction of mixed use neighborhoods inside the city, that can be enjoyed by non-residents and on foot, with residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit (as it covers large distance, its low density becomes monotonous, and it does not have mixed-use - they only are sleeping districts).

    Replies: @Mikel, @AP

    The low density suburbia might be pleasant for people who live in the house, and the mass construction of such places has boosted America’s standard of living in the 20th century, by allowing a “country lifestyle” to extend to wider classes.

    Well, yes.

    However, unless the houses there are used mainly as country weekend homes (and I know they are not), such suburbs are deadly for the development of the city, other things equal. You replace the construction of mixed use neighborhoods inside the city, that can be enjoyed by non-residents and on foot, with residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit (as it covers large distance, its low density becomes monotonous, and it does not have mixed-use – they only are sleeping districts).

    I actually agree with Mikel. It is not pleasant to live in a place packed with tourists. And when one has a family, a private yard is a very good thing. This also makes it more convenient to have dogs, which is also good for families. Some cities in this world such as Moscow are so wonderful and world class that it is worth the sacrifice, but for most – a suburban lifestyle is better. Although with a major caveat – beauty is important, and unfortunately only the first few decades of suburbia were built when people still demanded beautiful surroundings. When the GIs came home from the war these people, used to living in barracks, bulldozed the countryside and built ugly homes that aesthetically were like barracks.

    • Agree: Lars Porsena
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    tourists. And when one has a family, a private yard is a very
     
    Because good things are not in harmony with each other, but usually are trading off between them.

    For Americans who are accustomed to having a car and 400 square metre house - with a home cinema, games room, etc, - are not going to be comfortable downgrading to a 50 square metre apartment, even if it was in the Renaissance centre of Florence.

    However, this collective action problem - is how the automobile enabled the development of depressing suburban sprawl, instead of something which looks like Renaissance Florence.

    The best compromise was in 19th century England. There the bourgeoisie created a compromise of high density, mixed use, interesting suburbs, where the houses themselves are still spacious and beautiful inside.

    However, the cost of these houses was only affordable for a small section of the population. (19th century England was the richest country in the world, and in it still something like 80% of the population would be either proletariat or peasant).

    Here is the suburb (actually same street) where Engels lived in 19th century London - Engels house will be on left at 5:30. It's very high density, but houses are still large, and with a lot of mixed use - so it is interesting and enjoyable for non-residents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efud5gJ9YV8.

    Replies: @AP

  278. US “gun culture” is such a nonsense. I imagine far more white Americans are cut down by blacks and other non-white thugs with guns than ever manage to defend themselves with them.

    The problem with right wing white American “muh gunz” culture is that the blacks have even more guns and are even more willing to use them.

  279. @Dmitry
    @Lars Porsena

    Those are residential apartments towers, in a segmented area which is separate from the office towers. Those are a bit like a dormitory of mainly young professionals who don't want to commute a long distance to the office towers. It's no longer a "real neighbourhood", with schools, shops, etc.

    This photo of Chicago is a kind of apotheosis of the car's effect on the city. There are the office towers, which are only used in the daytime, and empty at night. Then there are some residential apartment towers, for people who want somewhere to sleep inside the city.

    Then perhaps there is a "skid row", with the lumpen proletariat, who are almost the only people without a car in America.

    Where is all the middle class life of the city? Most of the people are living kilometres away in low density suburbs, where they will drive to the city (almost like tourists) in order to use its amenities - but without contributing their life to the city by actually living in it.

    I'm not suggesting to "romanticize the past", as city conditions could be quite horrible, including in America. But sometime in the early 20th century, the "vitality and life" of the city has emigrated from it to distant suburbs.

    Replies: @Europe Europa, @Lars Porsena

    Interestingly in major British cities it’s fairly common not to have a car, especially in London but even in the others. Public transport is seen as good enough that owning a car is regarded by many as an unnecessary hassle unless they specifically need one to drive to smaller towns on a regular basis.

    Car-dominated “suburbia” has never taken off in the UK like in the US, I think the difference is people even on the outskirts of British cities expect good public transport links, also I think British “green belt” laws prevent the sort of endless urban sprawl you see in America, it gets broken up by design.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Europe Europa

    I actually think for London, it would be fun to have a car, from a pleasure perspective - because it is such a large city and you can drive there in the evening when it's less crowded.

    Although you would better to live in a walking distance from your office, as you do not want to use public transport or have to drive in such traffic in the morning (it would be an unpleasant kind of torture).

    However, for small cities like all centre of Oxford/Cambridge/Edinburgh/Dublin, you could survive without a car, as the cities are a human scale. You just need to live close enough to your office to be walking there in the morning.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  280. @AP
    @Dmitry


    The low density suburbia might be pleasant for people who live in the house, and the mass construction of such places has boosted America’s standard of living in the 20th century, by allowing a “country lifestyle” to extend to wider classes.
     
    Well, yes.

    However, unless the houses there are used mainly as country weekend homes (and I know they are not), such suburbs are deadly for the development of the city, other things equal. You replace the construction of mixed use neighborhoods inside the city, that can be enjoyed by non-residents and on foot, with residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit (as it covers large distance, its low density becomes monotonous, and it does not have mixed-use – they only are sleeping districts).
     
    I actually agree with Mikel. It is not pleasant to live in a place packed with tourists. And when one has a family, a private yard is a very good thing. This also makes it more convenient to have dogs, which is also good for families. Some cities in this world such as Moscow are so wonderful and world class that it is worth the sacrifice, but for most - a suburban lifestyle is better. Although with a major caveat - beauty is important, and unfortunately only the first few decades of suburbia were built when people still demanded beautiful surroundings. When the GIs came home from the war these people, used to living in barracks, bulldozed the countryside and built ugly homes that aesthetically were like barracks.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    tourists. And when one has a family, a private yard is a very

    Because good things are not in harmony with each other, but usually are trading off between them.

    For Americans who are accustomed to having a car and 400 square metre house – with a home cinema, games room, etc, – are not going to be comfortable downgrading to a 50 square metre apartment, even if it was in the Renaissance centre of Florence.

    However, this collective action problem – is how the automobile enabled the development of depressing suburban sprawl, instead of something which looks like Renaissance Florence.

    The best compromise was in 19th century England. There the bourgeoisie created a compromise of high density, mixed use, interesting suburbs, where the houses themselves are still spacious and beautiful inside.

    However, the cost of these houses was only affordable for a small section of the population. (19th century England was the richest country in the world, and in it still something like 80% of the population would be either proletariat or peasant).

    Here is the suburb (actually same street) where Engels lived in 19th century London – Engels house will be on left at 5:30. It’s very high density, but houses are still large, and with a lot of mixed use – so it is interesting and enjoyable for non-residents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efud5gJ9YV8.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    For Americans who are accustomed to having a car and 400 square metre house – with a home cinema, games room, etc, – are not going to be comfortable downgrading to a 50 square metre apartment, even if it was in the Renaissance centre of Florence.

    However, this collective action problem – is how the automobile enabled the development of depressing suburban sprawl, instead of something which looks like Renaissance Florence.
     

    As I’ve been explained, suburbs became depressive and ugly because of modern aesthetics, a reflection of modern values, not because of cars or because they are spread out. Automobile-based suburbs built before World War II are very charming, and much more pleasant to live in than any urban apartment. They enable one to live in a place that is pretty inside due to good aesthetics, and outside with nice gardens and fresh air, while also providing space. Only a really spectacular city would be worth giving this up for an urban apartment.

    I have not been to Florence but have heard from friends that it is wonderful. It is also fairly exceptional. I wouldn’t trade a house in a nice pre-war auto suburb for a flat in, say, central Frankfurt. Or New York.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  281. @Europe Europa
    @Dmitry

    Interestingly in major British cities it's fairly common not to have a car, especially in London but even in the others. Public transport is seen as good enough that owning a car is regarded by many as an unnecessary hassle unless they specifically need one to drive to smaller towns on a regular basis.

    Car-dominated "suburbia" has never taken off in the UK like in the US, I think the difference is people even on the outskirts of British cities expect good public transport links, also I think British "green belt" laws prevent the sort of endless urban sprawl you see in America, it gets broken up by design.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    I actually think for London, it would be fun to have a car, from a pleasure perspective – because it is such a large city and you can drive there in the evening when it’s less crowded.

    Although you would better to live in a walking distance from your office, as you do not want to use public transport or have to drive in such traffic in the morning (it would be an unpleasant kind of torture).

    However, for small cities like all centre of Oxford/Cambridge/Edinburgh/Dublin, you could survive without a car, as the cities are a human scale. You just need to live close enough to your office to be walking there in the morning.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Of course, your ideas of living close to where you work so that you could comfortably walk there (not more than say 3 miles?) make sense from an ecological and efficiency point of view. The problem is that people in North America don't spend 20-30 years years working at one institution anymore. The average stint for working these days is 4.6 years overall and 3.2 years if you're under 35. Unless you enjoy moving often to a new renaissance styled chateau, owning a car would be much more practical.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  282. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @AP


    tourists. And when one has a family, a private yard is a very
     
    Because good things are not in harmony with each other, but usually are trading off between them.

    For Americans who are accustomed to having a car and 400 square metre house - with a home cinema, games room, etc, - are not going to be comfortable downgrading to a 50 square metre apartment, even if it was in the Renaissance centre of Florence.

    However, this collective action problem - is how the automobile enabled the development of depressing suburban sprawl, instead of something which looks like Renaissance Florence.

    The best compromise was in 19th century England. There the bourgeoisie created a compromise of high density, mixed use, interesting suburbs, where the houses themselves are still spacious and beautiful inside.

    However, the cost of these houses was only affordable for a small section of the population. (19th century England was the richest country in the world, and in it still something like 80% of the population would be either proletariat or peasant).

    Here is the suburb (actually same street) where Engels lived in 19th century London - Engels house will be on left at 5:30. It's very high density, but houses are still large, and with a lot of mixed use - so it is interesting and enjoyable for non-residents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efud5gJ9YV8.

    Replies: @AP

    For Americans who are accustomed to having a car and 400 square metre house – with a home cinema, games room, etc, – are not going to be comfortable downgrading to a 50 square metre apartment, even if it was in the Renaissance centre of Florence.

    However, this collective action problem – is how the automobile enabled the development of depressing suburban sprawl, instead of something which looks like Renaissance Florence.

    As I’ve been explained, suburbs became depressive and ugly because of modern aesthetics, a reflection of modern values, not because of cars or because they are spread out. Automobile-based suburbs built before World War II are very charming, and much more pleasant to live in than any urban apartment. They enable one to live in a place that is pretty inside due to good aesthetics, and outside with nice gardens and fresh air, while also providing space. Only a really spectacular city would be worth giving this up for an urban apartment.

    I have not been to Florence but have heard from friends that it is wonderful. It is also fairly exceptional. I wouldn’t trade a house in a nice pre-war auto suburb for a flat in, say, central Frankfurt. Or New York.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    suburbs became depressive and ugly because of modern aesthetics, a reflection of modern
     
    The automobile suburbs that you post photos of (saying these are aesthetic areas) are still of no interest and attraction to non-residents, even if the architects of individual houses are talented people, and even though they may be great places to live for the residents.

    The areas are soulless and boring places for non-residents, due to the low density, impossibility of exploring on foot, and mono-use. Automobile allowed the creation of bourgeois, expensive residential areas, which still no non-resident would be interested in visiting (unless they were comparing house prices, or doing a sociological survey). Even architecturally, they are quite boring, as mono-use individual houses with little connection to each other, cannot be as interesting in the way of a higher density city street, with mixed use.

    From the opposite extreme, Dizengoff Street in Tel Aviv has the worst aesthetics in the world (it's built in Israel's austerity period, from square blocks of rotting sea-shell concrete). Yet even despite the square blocks of cheap concrete, it's a very enjoyable, interesting and attractive for non-residents to visit, Why is such an ugly place still pleasant? Because of the high density, mixed use, etc.

    18th-19th century English suburbs can optimize such conflicting values: this is what is achieved by Primrose Hill, Chelsea, Hampstead, South Kensington, etc. They have large houses, with high-density, mixed-use, and beautiful architecture. So it is possible to achieve some balance of the values.


    much more pleasant to live in than any urban apartment. They enable one to live in a place that is pretty inside due to good aesthetics,
     
    Because automobile created in America, this collective action problem. You can have houses which are nice to live in for the residents, at a relatively lower cost. However, collectively, it creates a boring suburban sprawl, of no interest as a city.

    . Only a really spectacular city would be worth giving this up for an urban apartment.
     
    It's a kind of "collective action" problem.

    I have not been to Florence but have heard from friends that it is wonderful. It is also fairly exceptional. I wouldn’t trade a house in a nice pre-war auto suburb for a flat in, say, central Frankfurt. Or New York.
     
    Although in New York, they built many beautiful city houses, before the automobile.

    Just as Beacon Hill in Boston, has a lot of city houses, in high-density. The motivation for this kind of construction, is what was killed in 20th century America, significantly as a result of the automobile.

    Replies: @AP

  283. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    residential-only neighbourhoods outside the city, that can only be enjoyed from a car, and which there is no reason for non-residents to visit
     
    IOW, an ideal place to live in for a family. Although I prefer -and have- a small farm in the outskirts of a big city, surrounded by nature and beautiful landscapes.

    Why would anyone want to live in the noisy, polluted center of a big city? Even if you are a party animal who goes clubbing all the time, you're still going to need some means of transport in any decent-sized city so you might as well live in the quiet, clean suburbs.

    There is a reason why most Americans and most wealthy Europeans prefer this choice. Nobody imposes it on them.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    18th century and 19th century history of cities like London, was of people avoiding the “noisy, polluted center of a big city” (an example of a noisy polluted area is where Karl Marx was living in London).

    However, to do this, the bourgeoisie constructed beautiful, high-density, mixed use residential districts – as in the area where Engels lived, shown above. You can avoid the polluted centre of the city, and build such beautiful, high-density, mixed-use districts.

    It is after the prevalance of the automobile, however, that the requirement is removed for high-density, mixed use areas, which create interesting experiences for non-residents. This sprawl allows for more lower middle classes of people to live in spacious houses. On the other hand, automobile is enabling preconditions for the “soulless”, mono-use, suburban sprawl of 20th century America (and also a lot of Western Europe).

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    On the other hand, automobile is enabling preconditions for the “soulless”, mono-use, suburban sprawl of 20th century America (and also a lot of Western Europe).
     
    Dense concrete modern housing is just as soulless as post-war suburbia, only less comfortable.
    , @Mikel
    @Dmitry

    I think that, to a large extent, you are presenting your personal preferences as an objective measure of how cities should be built and people should live.

    Your personal preferences are very respectable, of course, but I believe most people don't share them.

    To be honest, I would personally hate living in downtown Florence, even if they offered me a palazzo. I wouldn't have where to grow my crops and raise my animals and I wouldn't be able to step out of my property and do my mountain-trail running. My son would not have his own playground, trampoline and pool on the yard and he couldn't breath clean air and watch a starry sky at night. No amount of architectural beauty around me could compensate for these losses.

    Although at least Florence is close to the Apennines and the Mediterranean Sea. Living anywhere close to the rat-infested centers of London or New York would be even worse.

    The fact of the matter is that urban planning, regulations and availability of space play a big role but, in the main, developers build what they think customers demand. And most people find a detached house in a tranquil setting more desirable than a central apartment.

    In Latin America people who can afford it try to emulate the American suburb lifestyle. Since the 80s Santiago de Chile has expanded in size several-fold as people have moved from their shabby apartments to the never ending development of new American-style suburbs. In Europe there is not much room for cities to increase horizontally but rich -and especially very rich- people tend to live in mansions, chalets and gated communities outside of cities. This suggests that most everybody would do the same if they could afford it.

    I don't see much popular preference for those mixed-use, high-density spaces that you promote.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  284. @Dmitry
    @Europe Europa

    I actually think for London, it would be fun to have a car, from a pleasure perspective - because it is such a large city and you can drive there in the evening when it's less crowded.

    Although you would better to live in a walking distance from your office, as you do not want to use public transport or have to drive in such traffic in the morning (it would be an unpleasant kind of torture).

    However, for small cities like all centre of Oxford/Cambridge/Edinburgh/Dublin, you could survive without a car, as the cities are a human scale. You just need to live close enough to your office to be walking there in the morning.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Of course, your ideas of living close to where you work so that you could comfortably walk there (not more than say 3 miles?) make sense from an ecological and efficiency point of view. The problem is that people in North America don’t spend 20-30 years years working at one institution anymore. The average stint for working these days is 4.6 years overall and 3.2 years if you’re under 35. Unless you enjoy moving often to a new renaissance styled chateau, owning a car would be much more practical.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    I was talking some years ago to a French man, who was working as a Paris director of a multinational company.

    He was saying he and his family lives somewhere in South of France, and that he commutes every day to Paris and back in a high-speed train.

    I thought that must be really boring, because he is wasting many hours every day in the train. But he said the train journey was his favourite hours of the day, as he turns off his phone and is reading and listening to music, and meditating at the countryside. Probably, though, he invoices his company for the ticket in the first class carriage of the train.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  285. @AP
    @Dmitry


    For Americans who are accustomed to having a car and 400 square metre house – with a home cinema, games room, etc, – are not going to be comfortable downgrading to a 50 square metre apartment, even if it was in the Renaissance centre of Florence.

    However, this collective action problem – is how the automobile enabled the development of depressing suburban sprawl, instead of something which looks like Renaissance Florence.
     

    As I’ve been explained, suburbs became depressive and ugly because of modern aesthetics, a reflection of modern values, not because of cars or because they are spread out. Automobile-based suburbs built before World War II are very charming, and much more pleasant to live in than any urban apartment. They enable one to live in a place that is pretty inside due to good aesthetics, and outside with nice gardens and fresh air, while also providing space. Only a really spectacular city would be worth giving this up for an urban apartment.

    I have not been to Florence but have heard from friends that it is wonderful. It is also fairly exceptional. I wouldn’t trade a house in a nice pre-war auto suburb for a flat in, say, central Frankfurt. Or New York.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    suburbs became depressive and ugly because of modern aesthetics, a reflection of modern

    The automobile suburbs that you post photos of (saying these are aesthetic areas) are still of no interest and attraction to non-residents, even if the architects of individual houses are talented people, and even though they may be great places to live for the residents.

    The areas are soulless and boring places for non-residents, due to the low density, impossibility of exploring on foot, and mono-use. Automobile allowed the creation of bourgeois, expensive residential areas, which still no non-resident would be interested in visiting (unless they were comparing house prices, or doing a sociological survey). Even architecturally, they are quite boring, as mono-use individual houses with little connection to each other, cannot be as interesting in the way of a higher density city street, with mixed use.

    From the opposite extreme, Dizengoff Street in Tel Aviv has the worst aesthetics in the world (it’s built in Israel’s austerity period, from square blocks of rotting sea-shell concrete). Yet even despite the square blocks of cheap concrete, it’s a very enjoyable, interesting and attractive for non-residents to visit, Why is such an ugly place still pleasant? Because of the high density, mixed use, etc.

    18th-19th century English suburbs can optimize such conflicting values: this is what is achieved by Primrose Hill, Chelsea, Hampstead, South Kensington, etc. They have large houses, with high-density, mixed-use, and beautiful architecture. So it is possible to achieve some balance of the values.

    much more pleasant to live in than any urban apartment. They enable one to live in a place that is pretty inside due to good aesthetics,

    Because automobile created in America, this collective action problem. You can have houses which are nice to live in for the residents, at a relatively lower cost. However, collectively, it creates a boring suburban sprawl, of no interest as a city.

    . Only a really spectacular city would be worth giving this up for an urban apartment.

    It’s a kind of “collective action” problem.

    I have not been to Florence but have heard from friends that it is wonderful. It is also fairly exceptional. I wouldn’t trade a house in a nice pre-war auto suburb for a flat in, say, central Frankfurt. Or New York.

    Although in New York, they built many beautiful city houses, before the automobile.

    Just as Beacon Hill in Boston, has a lot of city houses, in high-density. The motivation for this kind of construction, is what was killed in 20th century America, significantly as a result of the automobile.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    The automobile suburbs that you post photos of (saying these are aesthetic areas) are still of no interest and attraction to non-residents
     
    To the extent that this keeps out crowds of non-residents, this is a strong advantage. Ultimately, neighborhoods should serve their residents.

    Even architecturally, they are quite boring, as mono-use individual houses with little connection to each other, cannot be as interesting in the way of a higher density city street, with mixed use.
     
    You must not like gardens very much. When every house is different (and pretty) with various architectural details and styles, and surrounded by a well-landscaped yard, the effect is not at all boring.

    And such environments with their varied flora also have room for fauna - when walking my dog I have encountered raccoons, skunks, wild turkeys, foxes, and of course countless rabbits. Doves and robins have nested on my windows. Friends who live closer to the mountain preserve than I do have seen bears (this is too much for me). The pleasing combination of civilization and nature is not all boring.

    I don’t think that falafel stands and crowds in identical concrete blocks are more interesting.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  286. @Dmitry
    @Mikel

    18th century and 19th century history of cities like London, was of people avoiding the "noisy, polluted center of a big city" (an example of a noisy polluted area is where Karl Marx was living in London).

    However, to do this, the bourgeoisie constructed beautiful, high-density, mixed use residential districts - as in the area where Engels lived, shown above. You can avoid the polluted centre of the city, and build such beautiful, high-density, mixed-use districts.

    It is after the prevalance of the automobile, however, that the requirement is removed for high-density, mixed use areas, which create interesting experiences for non-residents. This sprawl allows for more lower middle classes of people to live in spacious houses. On the other hand, automobile is enabling preconditions for the "soulless", mono-use, suburban sprawl of 20th century America (and also a lot of Western Europe).

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

    On the other hand, automobile is enabling preconditions for the “soulless”, mono-use, suburban sprawl of 20th century America (and also a lot of Western Europe).

    Dense concrete modern housing is just as soulless as post-war suburbia, only less comfortable.

  287. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @AP


    suburbs became depressive and ugly because of modern aesthetics, a reflection of modern
     
    The automobile suburbs that you post photos of (saying these are aesthetic areas) are still of no interest and attraction to non-residents, even if the architects of individual houses are talented people, and even though they may be great places to live for the residents.

    The areas are soulless and boring places for non-residents, due to the low density, impossibility of exploring on foot, and mono-use. Automobile allowed the creation of bourgeois, expensive residential areas, which still no non-resident would be interested in visiting (unless they were comparing house prices, or doing a sociological survey). Even architecturally, they are quite boring, as mono-use individual houses with little connection to each other, cannot be as interesting in the way of a higher density city street, with mixed use.

    From the opposite extreme, Dizengoff Street in Tel Aviv has the worst aesthetics in the world (it's built in Israel's austerity period, from square blocks of rotting sea-shell concrete). Yet even despite the square blocks of cheap concrete, it's a very enjoyable, interesting and attractive for non-residents to visit, Why is such an ugly place still pleasant? Because of the high density, mixed use, etc.

    18th-19th century English suburbs can optimize such conflicting values: this is what is achieved by Primrose Hill, Chelsea, Hampstead, South Kensington, etc. They have large houses, with high-density, mixed-use, and beautiful architecture. So it is possible to achieve some balance of the values.


    much more pleasant to live in than any urban apartment. They enable one to live in a place that is pretty inside due to good aesthetics,
     
    Because automobile created in America, this collective action problem. You can have houses which are nice to live in for the residents, at a relatively lower cost. However, collectively, it creates a boring suburban sprawl, of no interest as a city.

    . Only a really spectacular city would be worth giving this up for an urban apartment.
     
    It's a kind of "collective action" problem.

    I have not been to Florence but have heard from friends that it is wonderful. It is also fairly exceptional. I wouldn’t trade a house in a nice pre-war auto suburb for a flat in, say, central Frankfurt. Or New York.
     
    Although in New York, they built many beautiful city houses, before the automobile.

    Just as Beacon Hill in Boston, has a lot of city houses, in high-density. The motivation for this kind of construction, is what was killed in 20th century America, significantly as a result of the automobile.

    Replies: @AP

    The automobile suburbs that you post photos of (saying these are aesthetic areas) are still of no interest and attraction to non-residents

    To the extent that this keeps out crowds of non-residents, this is a strong advantage. Ultimately, neighborhoods should serve their residents.

    Even architecturally, they are quite boring, as mono-use individual houses with little connection to each other, cannot be as interesting in the way of a higher density city street, with mixed use.

    You must not like gardens very much. When every house is different (and pretty) with various architectural details and styles, and surrounded by a well-landscaped yard, the effect is not at all boring.

    And such environments with their varied flora also have room for fauna – when walking my dog I have encountered raccoons, skunks, wild turkeys, foxes, and of course countless rabbits. Doves and robins have nested on my windows. Friends who live closer to the mountain preserve than I do have seen bears (this is too much for me). The pleasing combination of civilization and nature is not all boring.

    I don’t think that falafel stands and crowds in identical concrete blocks are more interesting.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    non-residents, this is a strong advantage. Ultimately, neighborhoods should serve their residents.
     
    In other words - the investment of the residents, only benefits the residents themselves. This investment has no dual benefit, as there is no creation of the public space, which benefits non-residents.

    Whereas the investment of the bourgeois residents in their own houses (by property developers) in e.g. 18th-19th century cities like London or Edinburgh, had partly benefited themselves (the residents), but it was also a "dual investment", which created some of the most celebrated and beautiful public spaces.


    You must not like gardens very much. When every house is different (and pretty) with various architectural details and styles, and surrounded by a well-landscaped yard, the effect is not at all boring
     
    Lol I enjoy gardening.

    The architect can develop an interesting single house in such a suburb. But it is a set of widely distributed individual houses, without coherent structure, variety of use, access for non-residents, and all is connected by roads. Scale and distances mean there is no walkability in standard post-automobile suburbs.

    These suburbs are not very interesting for a non-resident, except in a kind of sociological way. People do not say "I'm going on holiday to Washington DC, and will leave the city to walk around in the suburbs and look at suburban houses where the Americans actually live".

    Well, a few years ago, I enjoyed a couple of days, cycling everywhere in Palo Alto. There are some suburbs (Palo Alto) where it is practical to cycle. But it is just houses and houses and then separated retail areas and office areas.


    The pleasing combination of civilization and nature is not all boring.
     
    Such additional space and country, can be desirable for residents, but it creates a boring sprawl for non-residents - the car has created too much distance between buildings - and separated their uses - , to allow for to be actual civilization, in the urban sense.

    On the other hand, look at Primrose Hill of Engels again, as an example of city houses before the car. There is a large park for nature fans, and there are internally spacious houses. And very high density and walkability. https://www.google.ru/maps/@51.5400577,-0.1562433,3a,75y,239.73h,95.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxgwmCtWn4RGUceV9lMM99A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

    Replies: @Mikel, @AP

  288. @Dmitry
    @Lars Porsena

    Those are residential apartments towers, in a segmented area which is separate from the office towers. Those are a bit like a dormitory of mainly young professionals who don't want to commute a long distance to the office towers. It's no longer a "real neighbourhood", with schools, shops, etc.

    This photo of Chicago is a kind of apotheosis of the car's effect on the city. There are the office towers, which are only used in the daytime, and empty at night. Then there are some residential apartment towers, for people who want somewhere to sleep inside the city.

    Then perhaps there is a "skid row", with the lumpen proletariat, who are almost the only people without a car in America.

    Where is all the middle class life of the city? Most of the people are living kilometres away in low density suburbs, where they will drive to the city (almost like tourists) in order to use its amenities - but without contributing their life to the city by actually living in it.

    I'm not suggesting to "romanticize the past", as city conditions could be quite horrible, including in America. But sometime in the early 20th century, the "vitality and life" of the city has emigrated from it to distant suburbs.

    Replies: @Europe Europa, @Lars Porsena

    There is more going on here. I think you are wrong to blame skyscrapers or the Un-livability of the city on just cars.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/overview-of-suburbs-1435799

    Rapid growth of suburbia characterized the post-World War II era for three chief reasons:
    The economic boom following World War II
    The need for housing returning veterans and baby boomers relatively cheaply
    Whites fleeing the desegregation of urban cities brought on by the civil rights movement (the “White Flight”)

    AP is certainly right that a lot of crap ass ugly suburbs started being built after WWII, and the reason was indeed to provide incredibly cheap housing. It would not have been possible without cars and the national highway system. But looking at the economics here tells us that whatever was going on in 1947, a lot has changed since then and something else is up.

    I live in the suburbs and I think they are great. However, the suburbs I like (if you can afford them) and the suburbs that make sense look like this:

    The 1st one is more modern like where I live on the outskirts of Chicago, the 2nd 2 (Llewellyn Park) are a suburb built in 1853.

    But suburbs make absolutely no sense being outside the city if they look like this:

    That is a Levittown development, the original modern US suburb built after WWII to provide dirt cheap housing for GIs. Many suburbs still look like this and they are all over around me, I personally hate them. But they are not really that cheap anymore.

    In that article I linked:

    Suburbs are not a modern concept, as this 539 BCE clay tablet letter from an early suburbanite to the king of Persia makes clear:
    “Our property seems to me the most beautiful in the world. It is so close to Babylon that we enjoy all the advantages of the city, and yet when we come home we stay away from all the noise and dust.”

    Suburbs make perfect sense if you want to have a large yard, to live on a Gentleman’s (non-working) farm. The earlier style of suburbs, which still exist and get built, satisfy this. The later style suburb, which are the most plentiful, do not.

    The amount of yard you get with those suburbs, and the size of the house, and for the price, you may as well live in a low density part of the city. There are still many neighborhoods in the city like that, those 3-flats, and a lot of those neighborhoods are Mexican now. Mexicans in Chicago still largely live and work in cohesive neighborhoods, the ones originally inhabited by Irish, Czechs and Poles. There are still some white ones too (like Mt. Greenwood, where a lot of Chicago cops live, but those are way more money).

    The Mexicans moved there when the price had crashed in value after white flight, but they have largely gentrified their own neighborhoods. One of those 3 flats in the city will cost you about the same ($200-300k for a 3-flat built around 1895) as one of those Levittown houses in the suburbs built in 1970. So why live in the Levittown suburbs even? You don’t get any more privacy or any more yard.

    You say the proles who can’t afford private transit live in the city but here are what new 3-flats being built look like in Lincoln Park.

    Those are about $1.5 million. Contrastingly, for that amount of money, you could probably get into a garden mansion in Llewellyn in the suburbs. The middle class has a hard time pricing themselves into decent neighborhoods in the city, unless they are Mexican.

    But there is a huge difference in price depending entirely on what neighborhood you live in. That is a big part of the white flight aspect which started around the 60’s. Those Mexican neighborhoods where the houses cost as much as the suburbs and are comparable, often nearby there are black neighborhoods where the the price is dirt cheap. Recently in Chicago the LA Kings were defending their neighborhood property values in ways white people don’t do except with cops.

    Another aspect is the high rises. People want yards and they want to get away from those high rises to raise families, as well as get away from nearby areas they don’t like within walking distance. That high density high-rise unlivable development builds suburbs and sends people out to them. So it is related but I think you have causality somewhat reversed, flight to the suburb didn’t build the city like that, it was the city developing like that that built the suburbs.

    I always get a kick out of rich people paying literally millions of dollars for a condo on ultra trendy Rush St. and then complaining that a homeless man pooped on their doormat. And that there are condoms and needles scattered all around their car because people are having sex and shooting drugs in the alley behind their house when the bars close at 2AM.

    That is the other aspect that powered a huge part of Levittown style suburb development, the desire to get away from the negative things going on in the city. Not away from those 3-flats into an equivalent density postage-stamp ranch house suburb, but away from the social dynamics and the high-rises. Cars enable them to do this but the cars are not what’s driving it.

    • Agree: AP
    • Thanks: Blinky Bill, Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @AP
    @Lars Porsena


    The amount of yard you get with those suburbs, and the size of the house, and for the price, you may as well live in a low density part of the city. There are still many neighborhoods in the city like that, those 3-flats, and a lot of those neighborhoods are Mexican now. Mexicans in Chicago still largely live and work in cohesive neighborhoods, the ones originally inhabited by Irish, Czechs and Poles
     
    The Ukrainians kept their Ukrainian Village intact. Indeed, they have been pushing the Puerto Ricans out of the part of Humboldt Park adjacent to Ukrainian Village (rent is cheaper west of Western Avenue so the off the boaters move their, and those guys working construction, some with military experience, respond to violence with violence) .

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Dmitry
    @Lars Porsena


    suburbs I like (if you can afford them) and the suburbs
     
    Such automobile suburban life can be pleasant for residents themselves, but it doesn't contribute to creating a public space.

    If you don't live there, it is not an interesting public space. E.g. If I want nature, I would visit real nature. And if I want houses, I would visit a city.

    However, the viability of such suburbs (which is result of the automobile), means that much of the bourgeoisie could be removed from the city, where their investment in residences might have created dual benefit of creating attractive public spaces.


    suburbs make absolutely no sense being outside the city if they look like this:
     
    They benefit the residents themselves though, not any less. Low bourgeois suburb follows the same rules as the haute bourgeois suburb. It is an improvement for the residents to live there, but not for the non-residents.

    Residential investment of American middle class suburb people is only consumed by themselves (as residents of the automobile suburb) in their houses, just as in the haute bourgeois suburb only residents are consuming any investments in good architecture, and so on.

    It's no surprise the American public spaces lost investment and vitality in the 20th century, as much of the middle class people were not in the city, except for work or retail. They were consuming their income privately in their houses, or in mono-use retail areas - public or city life, in the traditional sense, was deprived of this investment.


    Cars enable them to do this but the cars are not what’s driving it.

     

    Cars allowed for that "collective action problem", where it's better value for money for most people to live in a distant suburb. However, the collective result, is what we see in America today - decay of the city and its architecture.

    Most Americans have a high standard of living, but at the same time, foreigners love to talk about how "decaying" America is, and about how the homeless and drug addicts are covering the dystopian streets. It's because the middle class people are in their houses, in their distant suburbs.

    And the cities that we - tourists - are exploring, are often left for lumpen-proletariat (who are really the most ecological people, as they do not have cars), or are places which are mono-use (retail centres, office districts, and some residential dormitories for young professionals).

    Perhaps America is the pioneer the city can really be superfluous, but then can civilization, in our European sense, continue without the public sphere that was created by the city?

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Lars Porsena

    The first photo that you present resembles Victoria, MN, a small suburban landscape in the SW section of the Twin Cities. It's aptly referred to as the "city of parks and lakes". With its multitude of parks, lakes, arboretum, regional parks, all entertwined by walking and biking pathways, it includes all that any nature lover needs (except for long winters and cloudy winter skies). Also, it finds itself nestled within a community of affluent suburbs, all gems of fine living in their own rite. My sister moved to this area about 2 years ago so I've had some opportunity to get to know it somewhat. Thanks for including it witin your excellent comment - I hope to make it there this summer to give my fishing rod some needed excitement!

    View off the elevated balcony:

    https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/ISd4oxlcqs7eip0000000000.jpg

  289. @Dmitry
    @Mikel

    18th century and 19th century history of cities like London, was of people avoiding the "noisy, polluted center of a big city" (an example of a noisy polluted area is where Karl Marx was living in London).

    However, to do this, the bourgeoisie constructed beautiful, high-density, mixed use residential districts - as in the area where Engels lived, shown above. You can avoid the polluted centre of the city, and build such beautiful, high-density, mixed-use districts.

    It is after the prevalance of the automobile, however, that the requirement is removed for high-density, mixed use areas, which create interesting experiences for non-residents. This sprawl allows for more lower middle classes of people to live in spacious houses. On the other hand, automobile is enabling preconditions for the "soulless", mono-use, suburban sprawl of 20th century America (and also a lot of Western Europe).

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

    I think that, to a large extent, you are presenting your personal preferences as an objective measure of how cities should be built and people should live.

    Your personal preferences are very respectable, of course, but I believe most people don’t share them.

    To be honest, I would personally hate living in downtown Florence, even if they offered me a palazzo. I wouldn’t have where to grow my crops and raise my animals and I wouldn’t be able to step out of my property and do my mountain-trail running. My son would not have his own playground, trampoline and pool on the yard and he couldn’t breath clean air and watch a starry sky at night. No amount of architectural beauty around me could compensate for these losses.

    Although at least Florence is close to the Apennines and the Mediterranean Sea. Living anywhere close to the rat-infested centers of London or New York would be even worse.

    The fact of the matter is that urban planning, regulations and availability of space play a big role but, in the main, developers build what they think customers demand. And most people find a detached house in a tranquil setting more desirable than a central apartment.

    In Latin America people who can afford it try to emulate the American suburb lifestyle. Since the 80s Santiago de Chile has expanded in size several-fold as people have moved from their shabby apartments to the never ending development of new American-style suburbs. In Europe there is not much room for cities to increase horizontally but rich -and especially very rich- people tend to live in mansions, chalets and gated communities outside of cities. This suggests that most everybody would do the same if they could afford it.

    I don’t see much popular preference for those mixed-use, high-density spaces that you promote.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel

    I'm not saying it is better - for you personally - to live in Florence, instead of some farm in American countryside.

    My point is just that if most of the middle and upper class escaped from the city, then that is why there is no Florence being constructed in America.

    Automobile enabled people to escape into their own spacious square of land, connected only by a road, to other mono-use districts. You can drive from the office district, to the residential district, and to the shopping mall (retail district). But between this, the mixed-use city itself, and architecture of the public spaces that it had created, became superfluous.


    Europe there is not much room for cities to increase horizontally but rich -and especially very rich- people tend to live in mansions, chalets and gated communities outside of cities. This suggests that most everybody would do the same if they could afford it.
     
    Yes, it is not unique for America - but America was the first automobile society, and because of youth of country many cities were only constructed after automobile's invention.

    Before the automobile, American bourgeoisie had created interesting mixed use city spaces - i.e. Beacon Hill in Boston. After the automobile, the possibility and financing for interesting city construction is mostly lost, as the people who could pay for its construction are leaving the city itself, and can drive to another mono-use district for the shop, and another mono-use area for the office.

    Some of the most interesting mix-use city spaces of the American 19th century, like Brooklyn, are even becoming lumpen-proletarian ghettos in the 20th century.

  290. What happened to your twitter???

    • Replies: @to_be_frank...
    @Pale_Primate

    My money is on him being unpersonned...

  291. @Mikel
    @Dmitry

    I think that, to a large extent, you are presenting your personal preferences as an objective measure of how cities should be built and people should live.

    Your personal preferences are very respectable, of course, but I believe most people don't share them.

    To be honest, I would personally hate living in downtown Florence, even if they offered me a palazzo. I wouldn't have where to grow my crops and raise my animals and I wouldn't be able to step out of my property and do my mountain-trail running. My son would not have his own playground, trampoline and pool on the yard and he couldn't breath clean air and watch a starry sky at night. No amount of architectural beauty around me could compensate for these losses.

    Although at least Florence is close to the Apennines and the Mediterranean Sea. Living anywhere close to the rat-infested centers of London or New York would be even worse.

    The fact of the matter is that urban planning, regulations and availability of space play a big role but, in the main, developers build what they think customers demand. And most people find a detached house in a tranquil setting more desirable than a central apartment.

    In Latin America people who can afford it try to emulate the American suburb lifestyle. Since the 80s Santiago de Chile has expanded in size several-fold as people have moved from their shabby apartments to the never ending development of new American-style suburbs. In Europe there is not much room for cities to increase horizontally but rich -and especially very rich- people tend to live in mansions, chalets and gated communities outside of cities. This suggests that most everybody would do the same if they could afford it.

    I don't see much popular preference for those mixed-use, high-density spaces that you promote.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    I’m not saying it is better – for you personally – to live in Florence, instead of some farm in American countryside.

    My point is just that if most of the middle and upper class escaped from the city, then that is why there is no Florence being constructed in America.

    Automobile enabled people to escape into their own spacious square of land, connected only by a road, to other mono-use districts. You can drive from the office district, to the residential district, and to the shopping mall (retail district). But between this, the mixed-use city itself, and architecture of the public spaces that it had created, became superfluous.

    Europe there is not much room for cities to increase horizontally but rich -and especially very rich- people tend to live in mansions, chalets and gated communities outside of cities. This suggests that most everybody would do the same if they could afford it.

    Yes, it is not unique for America – but America was the first automobile society, and because of youth of country many cities were only constructed after automobile’s invention.

    Before the automobile, American bourgeoisie had created interesting mixed use city spaces – i.e. Beacon Hill in Boston. After the automobile, the possibility and financing for interesting city construction is mostly lost, as the people who could pay for its construction are leaving the city itself, and can drive to another mono-use district for the shop, and another mono-use area for the office.

    Some of the most interesting mix-use city spaces of the American 19th century, like Brooklyn, are even becoming lumpen-proletarian ghettos in the 20th century.

  292. AP says:
    @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    There is more going on here. I think you are wrong to blame skyscrapers or the Un-livability of the city on just cars.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/overview-of-suburbs-1435799


    Rapid growth of suburbia characterized the post-World War II era for three chief reasons:
    The economic boom following World War II
    The need for housing returning veterans and baby boomers relatively cheaply
    Whites fleeing the desegregation of urban cities brought on by the civil rights movement (the "White Flight")
     
    AP is certainly right that a lot of crap ass ugly suburbs started being built after WWII, and the reason was indeed to provide incredibly cheap housing. It would not have been possible without cars and the national highway system. But looking at the economics here tells us that whatever was going on in 1947, a lot has changed since then and something else is up.

    I live in the suburbs and I think they are great. However, the suburbs I like (if you can afford them) and the suburbs that make sense look like this:

    https://www.americancommunities.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/iStock-171147284-1024x683.jpg

    https://www.llewellynpark.com/hoa/assn13266/images/rotator-slide-2.jpg

    https://activerain-store.s3.amazonaws.com/image_store/uploads/8/9/2/1/0/ar127230909201298.jpg

    The 1st one is more modern like where I live on the outskirts of Chicago, the 2nd 2 (Llewellyn Park) are a suburb built in 1853.

    But suburbs make absolutely no sense being outside the city if they look like this:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/02/8f/59028f38592fa73a8bac635c0f6f5c5e.jpg

    That is a Levittown development, the original modern US suburb built after WWII to provide dirt cheap housing for GIs. Many suburbs still look like this and they are all over around me, I personally hate them. But they are not really that cheap anymore.

    https://cdn.britannica.com/40/153540-004-D1C39C90.jpg

    In that article I linked:

    Suburbs are not a modern concept, as this 539 BCE clay tablet letter from an early suburbanite to the king of Persia makes clear:
    "Our property seems to me the most beautiful in the world. It is so close to Babylon that we enjoy all the advantages of the city, and yet when we come home we stay away from all the noise and dust."
     
    Suburbs make perfect sense if you want to have a large yard, to live on a Gentleman's (non-working) farm. The earlier style of suburbs, which still exist and get built, satisfy this. The later style suburb, which are the most plentiful, do not.

    The amount of yard you get with those suburbs, and the size of the house, and for the price, you may as well live in a low density part of the city. There are still many neighborhoods in the city like that, those 3-flats, and a lot of those neighborhoods are Mexican now. Mexicans in Chicago still largely live and work in cohesive neighborhoods, the ones originally inhabited by Irish, Czechs and Poles. There are still some white ones too (like Mt. Greenwood, where a lot of Chicago cops live, but those are way more money).

    The Mexicans moved there when the price had crashed in value after white flight, but they have largely gentrified their own neighborhoods. One of those 3 flats in the city will cost you about the same ($200-300k for a 3-flat built around 1895) as one of those Levittown houses in the suburbs built in 1970. So why live in the Levittown suburbs even? You don't get any more privacy or any more yard.

    You say the proles who can't afford private transit live in the city but here are what new 3-flats being built look like in Lincoln Park.

    http://www.goldcoastrealty-chicago.com/images/luxury_854.jpg

    Those are about $1.5 million. Contrastingly, for that amount of money, you could probably get into a garden mansion in Llewellyn in the suburbs. The middle class has a hard time pricing themselves into decent neighborhoods in the city, unless they are Mexican.

    But there is a huge difference in price depending entirely on what neighborhood you live in. That is a big part of the white flight aspect which started around the 60's. Those Mexican neighborhoods where the houses cost as much as the suburbs and are comparable, often nearby there are black neighborhoods where the the price is dirt cheap. Recently in Chicago the LA Kings were defending their neighborhood property values in ways white people don't do except with cops.

    Another aspect is the high rises. People want yards and they want to get away from those high rises to raise families, as well as get away from nearby areas they don't like within walking distance. That high density high-rise unlivable development builds suburbs and sends people out to them. So it is related but I think you have causality somewhat reversed, flight to the suburb didn't build the city like that, it was the city developing like that that built the suburbs.

    I always get a kick out of rich people paying literally millions of dollars for a condo on ultra trendy Rush St. and then complaining that a homeless man pooped on their doormat. And that there are condoms and needles scattered all around their car because people are having sex and shooting drugs in the alley behind their house when the bars close at 2AM.

    That is the other aspect that powered a huge part of Levittown style suburb development, the desire to get away from the negative things going on in the city. Not away from those 3-flats into an equivalent density postage-stamp ranch house suburb, but away from the social dynamics and the high-rises. Cars enable them to do this but the cars are not what's driving it.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @Mr. Hack

    The amount of yard you get with those suburbs, and the size of the house, and for the price, you may as well live in a low density part of the city. There are still many neighborhoods in the city like that, those 3-flats, and a lot of those neighborhoods are Mexican now. Mexicans in Chicago still largely live and work in cohesive neighborhoods, the ones originally inhabited by Irish, Czechs and Poles

    The Ukrainians kept their Ukrainian Village intact. Indeed, they have been pushing the Puerto Ricans out of the part of Humboldt Park adjacent to Ukrainian Village (rent is cheaper west of Western Avenue so the off the boaters move their, and those guys working construction, some with military experience, respond to violence with violence) .

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Have you spent much time within the "Ukrainian Village" in Chicago? I used to have friends that lived there, and would visit them from time to time. It's been a long time, however, since I last visited.

  293. @AP
    @Dmitry


    The automobile suburbs that you post photos of (saying these are aesthetic areas) are still of no interest and attraction to non-residents
     
    To the extent that this keeps out crowds of non-residents, this is a strong advantage. Ultimately, neighborhoods should serve their residents.

    Even architecturally, they are quite boring, as mono-use individual houses with little connection to each other, cannot be as interesting in the way of a higher density city street, with mixed use.
     
    You must not like gardens very much. When every house is different (and pretty) with various architectural details and styles, and surrounded by a well-landscaped yard, the effect is not at all boring.

    And such environments with their varied flora also have room for fauna - when walking my dog I have encountered raccoons, skunks, wild turkeys, foxes, and of course countless rabbits. Doves and robins have nested on my windows. Friends who live closer to the mountain preserve than I do have seen bears (this is too much for me). The pleasing combination of civilization and nature is not all boring.

    I don’t think that falafel stands and crowds in identical concrete blocks are more interesting.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    non-residents, this is a strong advantage. Ultimately, neighborhoods should serve their residents.

    In other words – the investment of the residents, only benefits the residents themselves. This investment has no dual benefit, as there is no creation of the public space, which benefits non-residents.

    Whereas the investment of the bourgeois residents in their own houses (by property developers) in e.g. 18th-19th century cities like London or Edinburgh, had partly benefited themselves (the residents), but it was also a “dual investment”, which created some of the most celebrated and beautiful public spaces.

    You must not like gardens very much. When every house is different (and pretty) with various architectural details and styles, and surrounded by a well-landscaped yard, the effect is not at all boring

    Lol I enjoy gardening.

    The architect can develop an interesting single house in such a suburb. But it is a set of widely distributed individual houses, without coherent structure, variety of use, access for non-residents, and all is connected by roads. Scale and distances mean there is no walkability in standard post-automobile suburbs.

    These suburbs are not very interesting for a non-resident, except in a kind of sociological way. People do not say “I’m going on holiday to Washington DC, and will leave the city to walk around in the suburbs and look at suburban houses where the Americans actually live”.

    Well, a few years ago, I enjoyed a couple of days, cycling everywhere in Palo Alto. There are some suburbs (Palo Alto) where it is practical to cycle. But it is just houses and houses and then separated retail areas and office areas.

    The pleasing combination of civilization and nature is not all boring.

    Such additional space and country, can be desirable for residents, but it creates a boring sprawl for non-residents – the car has created too much distance between buildings – and separated their uses – , to allow for to be actual civilization, in the urban sense.

    On the other hand, look at Primrose Hill of Engels again, as an example of city houses before the car. There is a large park for nature fans, and there are internally spacious houses. And very high density and walkability. https://www.google.ru/maps/@51.5400577,-0.1562433,3a,75y,239.73h,95.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxgwmCtWn4RGUceV9lMM99A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    This investment has no dual benefit, as there is no creation of the public space, which benefits non-residents.
     
    Ha. Tell that to any new housing project developer in America. It varies by state but building is very heavily regulated in the US and they cannot dream of obtaining a building permit from the city/county unless they include in the project public spaces such as playgrounds, parks and common areas that will then be open to residents and non-residents. In any decent part of America they will usually put to shame most anything you find in a neighborhood of the same population in Europe.

    More importantly, they will have to pay huge impact fees and other excises that the city will use to create and maintain additional public spaces and amenities: trails, parks, roads, libraries, pools, museums,... again, with no envy to their European counterparts.

    Those mixed-use spaces and that architecture of the pre-automobile era are not coming back. We can enjoy what's left of that era but pursuing their return against the actual wishes of the population is probably as pointless as pursuing a return to the majestic architecture of the cities of the Antiquity.
    , @AP
    @Dmitry


    In other words – the investment of the residents, only benefits the residents themselves. This investment has no dual benefit, as there is no creation of the public space, which benefits non-residents.
     
    There are actually beautiful parks among the houses. If there are lakes, there may be well-maintained public beaches. Some towns have public swimming pools. Typically non-residents pay extra for using such places but they are not barred. One notable exception is the beautiful auto suburb of Grosse Pointe - it sits next to Detroit and reasonably prevents non-residents from accessing its parks.

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2017/12/25/grosse-pointe-woods-adds-security-measure-city-park/108918358/


    The architect can develop an interesting single house in such a suburb. But it is a set of widely distributed individual houses, without coherent structure, variety of use, access for non-residents, and all is connected by roads.
     
    The eclectic mixture of styles is in itself interesting. And in many such old suburbs they are not very far apart. See the radical difference between this house and the one behind it:

    https://i0.wp.com/historicbuildingsct.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/PA084561.jpg

    And here:

    https://i.imgur.com/Tn1M67a.jpg


    Whereas the investment of the bourgeois residents in their own houses (by property developers) in e.g. 18th-19th century cities like London or Edinburgh, had partly benefited themselves (the residents), but it was also a “dual investment”, which created some of the most celebrated and beautiful public spaces.
     
    Chicago's beautiful botanical gardens were built in suburbia (far from the city itself) in 1972:

    https://fpdcc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/chicago-botanic-garden-island-jun13.jpg

    One needs a car to get from one's home to such places.


    the car has created too much distance between buildings – and separated their uses
     
    While I think a log commute is horrible, I see no benefit from sleeping where one works and shops, especially if the cost of doing so is not having a yard, garden, or nice private house.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  294. @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    There is more going on here. I think you are wrong to blame skyscrapers or the Un-livability of the city on just cars.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/overview-of-suburbs-1435799


    Rapid growth of suburbia characterized the post-World War II era for three chief reasons:
    The economic boom following World War II
    The need for housing returning veterans and baby boomers relatively cheaply
    Whites fleeing the desegregation of urban cities brought on by the civil rights movement (the "White Flight")
     
    AP is certainly right that a lot of crap ass ugly suburbs started being built after WWII, and the reason was indeed to provide incredibly cheap housing. It would not have been possible without cars and the national highway system. But looking at the economics here tells us that whatever was going on in 1947, a lot has changed since then and something else is up.

    I live in the suburbs and I think they are great. However, the suburbs I like (if you can afford them) and the suburbs that make sense look like this:

    https://www.americancommunities.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/iStock-171147284-1024x683.jpg

    https://www.llewellynpark.com/hoa/assn13266/images/rotator-slide-2.jpg

    https://activerain-store.s3.amazonaws.com/image_store/uploads/8/9/2/1/0/ar127230909201298.jpg

    The 1st one is more modern like where I live on the outskirts of Chicago, the 2nd 2 (Llewellyn Park) are a suburb built in 1853.

    But suburbs make absolutely no sense being outside the city if they look like this:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/02/8f/59028f38592fa73a8bac635c0f6f5c5e.jpg

    That is a Levittown development, the original modern US suburb built after WWII to provide dirt cheap housing for GIs. Many suburbs still look like this and they are all over around me, I personally hate them. But they are not really that cheap anymore.

    https://cdn.britannica.com/40/153540-004-D1C39C90.jpg

    In that article I linked:

    Suburbs are not a modern concept, as this 539 BCE clay tablet letter from an early suburbanite to the king of Persia makes clear:
    "Our property seems to me the most beautiful in the world. It is so close to Babylon that we enjoy all the advantages of the city, and yet when we come home we stay away from all the noise and dust."
     
    Suburbs make perfect sense if you want to have a large yard, to live on a Gentleman's (non-working) farm. The earlier style of suburbs, which still exist and get built, satisfy this. The later style suburb, which are the most plentiful, do not.

    The amount of yard you get with those suburbs, and the size of the house, and for the price, you may as well live in a low density part of the city. There are still many neighborhoods in the city like that, those 3-flats, and a lot of those neighborhoods are Mexican now. Mexicans in Chicago still largely live and work in cohesive neighborhoods, the ones originally inhabited by Irish, Czechs and Poles. There are still some white ones too (like Mt. Greenwood, where a lot of Chicago cops live, but those are way more money).

    The Mexicans moved there when the price had crashed in value after white flight, but they have largely gentrified their own neighborhoods. One of those 3 flats in the city will cost you about the same ($200-300k for a 3-flat built around 1895) as one of those Levittown houses in the suburbs built in 1970. So why live in the Levittown suburbs even? You don't get any more privacy or any more yard.

    You say the proles who can't afford private transit live in the city but here are what new 3-flats being built look like in Lincoln Park.

    http://www.goldcoastrealty-chicago.com/images/luxury_854.jpg

    Those are about $1.5 million. Contrastingly, for that amount of money, you could probably get into a garden mansion in Llewellyn in the suburbs. The middle class has a hard time pricing themselves into decent neighborhoods in the city, unless they are Mexican.

    But there is a huge difference in price depending entirely on what neighborhood you live in. That is a big part of the white flight aspect which started around the 60's. Those Mexican neighborhoods where the houses cost as much as the suburbs and are comparable, often nearby there are black neighborhoods where the the price is dirt cheap. Recently in Chicago the LA Kings were defending their neighborhood property values in ways white people don't do except with cops.

    Another aspect is the high rises. People want yards and they want to get away from those high rises to raise families, as well as get away from nearby areas they don't like within walking distance. That high density high-rise unlivable development builds suburbs and sends people out to them. So it is related but I think you have causality somewhat reversed, flight to the suburb didn't build the city like that, it was the city developing like that that built the suburbs.

    I always get a kick out of rich people paying literally millions of dollars for a condo on ultra trendy Rush St. and then complaining that a homeless man pooped on their doormat. And that there are condoms and needles scattered all around their car because people are having sex and shooting drugs in the alley behind their house when the bars close at 2AM.

    That is the other aspect that powered a huge part of Levittown style suburb development, the desire to get away from the negative things going on in the city. Not away from those 3-flats into an equivalent density postage-stamp ranch house suburb, but away from the social dynamics and the high-rises. Cars enable them to do this but the cars are not what's driving it.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @Mr. Hack

    suburbs I like (if you can afford them) and the suburbs

    Such automobile suburban life can be pleasant for residents themselves, but it doesn’t contribute to creating a public space.

    If you don’t live there, it is not an interesting public space. E.g. If I want nature, I would visit real nature. And if I want houses, I would visit a city.

    However, the viability of such suburbs (which is result of the automobile), means that much of the bourgeoisie could be removed from the city, where their investment in residences might have created dual benefit of creating attractive public spaces.

    suburbs make absolutely no sense being outside the city if they look like this:

    They benefit the residents themselves though, not any less. Low bourgeois suburb follows the same rules as the haute bourgeois suburb. It is an improvement for the residents to live there, but not for the non-residents.

    Residential investment of American middle class suburb people is only consumed by themselves (as residents of the automobile suburb) in their houses, just as in the haute bourgeois suburb only residents are consuming any investments in good architecture, and so on.

    It’s no surprise the American public spaces lost investment and vitality in the 20th century, as much of the middle class people were not in the city, except for work or retail. They were consuming their income privately in their houses, or in mono-use retail areas – public or city life, in the traditional sense, was deprived of this investment.

    Cars enable them to do this but the cars are not what’s driving it.

    Cars allowed for that “collective action problem”, where it’s better value for money for most people to live in a distant suburb. However, the collective result, is what we see in America today – decay of the city and its architecture.

    Most Americans have a high standard of living, but at the same time, foreigners love to talk about how “decaying” America is, and about how the homeless and drug addicts are covering the dystopian streets. It’s because the middle class people are in their houses, in their distant suburbs.

    And the cities that we – tourists – are exploring, are often left for lumpen-proletariat (who are really the most ecological people, as they do not have cars), or are places which are mono-use (retail centres, office districts, and some residential dormitories for young professionals).

    Perhaps America is the pioneer the city can really be superfluous, but then can civilization, in our European sense, continue without the public sphere that was created by the city?

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    Here is the thing, the Czechs fled Cicero in the 1980's. The car is the how, not the why. That is awful late for surmising those new-fangled cars and highways were the reason. So you have some causality reverse here, the city is not full of homeless drug addicts because the middle class fled, the middle class fled because the city was full of homeless drug addicts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicero,_Illinois

    Another thing to keep in mind, if you want to develop European style cities, is that the high density Levittown suburbs they fled to are a candidate to develop that, if only it had been developed with the old world taste of Cicero instead of the new modern McLevit style.

    The density of those side-to-side ranch homes is quite comparable to the density of the old residential neighborhoods of the city and inner suburbs, and to that of European cities.

    Florence Italy is about the size of Wichita Kansas. Although Wichita looks fugly compared to Florence.

    The 2nd largest city in IL, Rockford, a city of a couple hundred thousand about an hour northwest of Chicago, that would be a place for middle class and rich people to move to if you wanted to build European cities. Rockford is kind of a dump though. Who built this, Stalin?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Fordham_Dam_Rockford_IL.jpg

    But that is how Europe is, 1 Rockford sized city an hour away from another. Europe is more sprawled out than the US cities are. It's just that Europe, it's not considered sprawl, it's considered a different small city where they speak a different language and have a different flag.

    To recreate that you would want to scatter mid sized towns and cities all over and spread out. But they would be built as cohesive, somewhat self contained towns and cities. Not like Levitown. More like Rockford but less poor and soviet. They would have to somehow become extravagantly rich commercial hubs like Euro cities when the glory architecture was built.

    But that's the issue with post WWII city planning and architecture. Levittown is a giant cluster of small detached houses with a row of strip malls up the highway. It's not a great layout.

    But if the solution was trying to pack people back into cities like Chicago, in it's current boundaries, it would not produce European cities it would be Asian cities.

    https://images.chinahighlights.com/attraction/shenzhen/shenzhen.jpg

    To get European, you would have to spread them out down the highway but you would have to build nicer places with better layouts. Neither Europeans nor European-Americans really want to live in Chinese cities, with or without the homeless drug addicts.

    So here's the thing about Florence, it's a city of 400k an hour down the highway from Bologna. Bologna is a city of 1 million people, but it actually has less density than Florence. Florence is also about 3 hours from Genoa and Rome.

    Replies: @Ano4

  295. @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    There is more going on here. I think you are wrong to blame skyscrapers or the Un-livability of the city on just cars.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/overview-of-suburbs-1435799


    Rapid growth of suburbia characterized the post-World War II era for three chief reasons:
    The economic boom following World War II
    The need for housing returning veterans and baby boomers relatively cheaply
    Whites fleeing the desegregation of urban cities brought on by the civil rights movement (the "White Flight")
     
    AP is certainly right that a lot of crap ass ugly suburbs started being built after WWII, and the reason was indeed to provide incredibly cheap housing. It would not have been possible without cars and the national highway system. But looking at the economics here tells us that whatever was going on in 1947, a lot has changed since then and something else is up.

    I live in the suburbs and I think they are great. However, the suburbs I like (if you can afford them) and the suburbs that make sense look like this:

    https://www.americancommunities.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/iStock-171147284-1024x683.jpg

    https://www.llewellynpark.com/hoa/assn13266/images/rotator-slide-2.jpg

    https://activerain-store.s3.amazonaws.com/image_store/uploads/8/9/2/1/0/ar127230909201298.jpg

    The 1st one is more modern like where I live on the outskirts of Chicago, the 2nd 2 (Llewellyn Park) are a suburb built in 1853.

    But suburbs make absolutely no sense being outside the city if they look like this:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/02/8f/59028f38592fa73a8bac635c0f6f5c5e.jpg

    That is a Levittown development, the original modern US suburb built after WWII to provide dirt cheap housing for GIs. Many suburbs still look like this and they are all over around me, I personally hate them. But they are not really that cheap anymore.

    https://cdn.britannica.com/40/153540-004-D1C39C90.jpg

    In that article I linked:

    Suburbs are not a modern concept, as this 539 BCE clay tablet letter from an early suburbanite to the king of Persia makes clear:
    "Our property seems to me the most beautiful in the world. It is so close to Babylon that we enjoy all the advantages of the city, and yet when we come home we stay away from all the noise and dust."
     
    Suburbs make perfect sense if you want to have a large yard, to live on a Gentleman's (non-working) farm. The earlier style of suburbs, which still exist and get built, satisfy this. The later style suburb, which are the most plentiful, do not.

    The amount of yard you get with those suburbs, and the size of the house, and for the price, you may as well live in a low density part of the city. There are still many neighborhoods in the city like that, those 3-flats, and a lot of those neighborhoods are Mexican now. Mexicans in Chicago still largely live and work in cohesive neighborhoods, the ones originally inhabited by Irish, Czechs and Poles. There are still some white ones too (like Mt. Greenwood, where a lot of Chicago cops live, but those are way more money).

    The Mexicans moved there when the price had crashed in value after white flight, but they have largely gentrified their own neighborhoods. One of those 3 flats in the city will cost you about the same ($200-300k for a 3-flat built around 1895) as one of those Levittown houses in the suburbs built in 1970. So why live in the Levittown suburbs even? You don't get any more privacy or any more yard.

    You say the proles who can't afford private transit live in the city but here are what new 3-flats being built look like in Lincoln Park.

    http://www.goldcoastrealty-chicago.com/images/luxury_854.jpg

    Those are about $1.5 million. Contrastingly, for that amount of money, you could probably get into a garden mansion in Llewellyn in the suburbs. The middle class has a hard time pricing themselves into decent neighborhoods in the city, unless they are Mexican.

    But there is a huge difference in price depending entirely on what neighborhood you live in. That is a big part of the white flight aspect which started around the 60's. Those Mexican neighborhoods where the houses cost as much as the suburbs and are comparable, often nearby there are black neighborhoods where the the price is dirt cheap. Recently in Chicago the LA Kings were defending their neighborhood property values in ways white people don't do except with cops.

    Another aspect is the high rises. People want yards and they want to get away from those high rises to raise families, as well as get away from nearby areas they don't like within walking distance. That high density high-rise unlivable development builds suburbs and sends people out to them. So it is related but I think you have causality somewhat reversed, flight to the suburb didn't build the city like that, it was the city developing like that that built the suburbs.

    I always get a kick out of rich people paying literally millions of dollars for a condo on ultra trendy Rush St. and then complaining that a homeless man pooped on their doormat. And that there are condoms and needles scattered all around their car because people are having sex and shooting drugs in the alley behind their house when the bars close at 2AM.

    That is the other aspect that powered a huge part of Levittown style suburb development, the desire to get away from the negative things going on in the city. Not away from those 3-flats into an equivalent density postage-stamp ranch house suburb, but away from the social dynamics and the high-rises. Cars enable them to do this but the cars are not what's driving it.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @Mr. Hack

    The first photo that you present resembles Victoria, MN, a small suburban landscape in the SW section of the Twin Cities. It’s aptly referred to as the “city of parks and lakes”. With its multitude of parks, lakes, arboretum, regional parks, all entertwined by walking and biking pathways, it includes all that any nature lover needs (except for long winters and cloudy winter skies). Also, it finds itself nestled within a community of affluent suburbs, all gems of fine living in their own rite. My sister moved to this area about 2 years ago so I’ve had some opportunity to get to know it somewhat. Thanks for including it witin your excellent comment – I hope to make it there this summer to give my fishing rod some needed excitement!

    View off the elevated balcony:

  296. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Of course, your ideas of living close to where you work so that you could comfortably walk there (not more than say 3 miles?) make sense from an ecological and efficiency point of view. The problem is that people in North America don't spend 20-30 years years working at one institution anymore. The average stint for working these days is 4.6 years overall and 3.2 years if you're under 35. Unless you enjoy moving often to a new renaissance styled chateau, owning a car would be much more practical.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    I was talking some years ago to a French man, who was working as a Paris director of a multinational company.

    He was saying he and his family lives somewhere in South of France, and that he commutes every day to Paris and back in a high-speed train.

    I thought that must be really boring, because he is wasting many hours every day in the train. But he said the train journey was his favourite hours of the day, as he turns off his phone and is reading and listening to music, and meditating at the countryside. Probably, though, he invoices his company for the ticket in the first class carriage of the train.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    To each his own, we're all a little bit different.

    From my sister's balcony (pictured above) your about 30 minutes from downtown Minneapolis. Victoria is really located within the farthest reaches of the SW corridor of the Twin Cities. I think that you'd love the Twin Cities area, a lot of architectural gems to visit and gaze at (not all million dollar houses either). It's just too bad that its getting so much lousy press lately.

  297. @AP
    @Lars Porsena


    The amount of yard you get with those suburbs, and the size of the house, and for the price, you may as well live in a low density part of the city. There are still many neighborhoods in the city like that, those 3-flats, and a lot of those neighborhoods are Mexican now. Mexicans in Chicago still largely live and work in cohesive neighborhoods, the ones originally inhabited by Irish, Czechs and Poles
     
    The Ukrainians kept their Ukrainian Village intact. Indeed, they have been pushing the Puerto Ricans out of the part of Humboldt Park adjacent to Ukrainian Village (rent is cheaper west of Western Avenue so the off the boaters move their, and those guys working construction, some with military experience, respond to violence with violence) .

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Have you spent much time within the “Ukrainian Village” in Chicago? I used to have friends that lived there, and would visit them from time to time. It’s been a long time, however, since I last visited.

  298. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    I was talking some years ago to a French man, who was working as a Paris director of a multinational company.

    He was saying he and his family lives somewhere in South of France, and that he commutes every day to Paris and back in a high-speed train.

    I thought that must be really boring, because he is wasting many hours every day in the train. But he said the train journey was his favourite hours of the day, as he turns off his phone and is reading and listening to music, and meditating at the countryside. Probably, though, he invoices his company for the ticket in the first class carriage of the train.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    To each his own, we’re all a little bit different.

    From my sister’s balcony (pictured above) your about 30 minutes from downtown Minneapolis. Victoria is really located within the farthest reaches of the SW corridor of the Twin Cities. I think that you’d love the Twin Cities area, a lot of architectural gems to visit and gaze at (not all million dollar houses either). It’s just too bad that its getting so much lousy press lately.

  299. @Dmitry
    @AP


    non-residents, this is a strong advantage. Ultimately, neighborhoods should serve their residents.
     
    In other words - the investment of the residents, only benefits the residents themselves. This investment has no dual benefit, as there is no creation of the public space, which benefits non-residents.

    Whereas the investment of the bourgeois residents in their own houses (by property developers) in e.g. 18th-19th century cities like London or Edinburgh, had partly benefited themselves (the residents), but it was also a "dual investment", which created some of the most celebrated and beautiful public spaces.


    You must not like gardens very much. When every house is different (and pretty) with various architectural details and styles, and surrounded by a well-landscaped yard, the effect is not at all boring
     
    Lol I enjoy gardening.

    The architect can develop an interesting single house in such a suburb. But it is a set of widely distributed individual houses, without coherent structure, variety of use, access for non-residents, and all is connected by roads. Scale and distances mean there is no walkability in standard post-automobile suburbs.

    These suburbs are not very interesting for a non-resident, except in a kind of sociological way. People do not say "I'm going on holiday to Washington DC, and will leave the city to walk around in the suburbs and look at suburban houses where the Americans actually live".

    Well, a few years ago, I enjoyed a couple of days, cycling everywhere in Palo Alto. There are some suburbs (Palo Alto) where it is practical to cycle. But it is just houses and houses and then separated retail areas and office areas.


    The pleasing combination of civilization and nature is not all boring.
     
    Such additional space and country, can be desirable for residents, but it creates a boring sprawl for non-residents - the car has created too much distance between buildings - and separated their uses - , to allow for to be actual civilization, in the urban sense.

    On the other hand, look at Primrose Hill of Engels again, as an example of city houses before the car. There is a large park for nature fans, and there are internally spacious houses. And very high density and walkability. https://www.google.ru/maps/@51.5400577,-0.1562433,3a,75y,239.73h,95.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxgwmCtWn4RGUceV9lMM99A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

    Replies: @Mikel, @AP

    This investment has no dual benefit, as there is no creation of the public space, which benefits non-residents.

    Ha. Tell that to any new housing project developer in America. It varies by state but building is very heavily regulated in the US and they cannot dream of obtaining a building permit from the city/county unless they include in the project public spaces such as playgrounds, parks and common areas that will then be open to residents and non-residents. In any decent part of America they will usually put to shame most anything you find in a neighborhood of the same population in Europe.

    More importantly, they will have to pay huge impact fees and other excises that the city will use to create and maintain additional public spaces and amenities: trails, parks, roads, libraries, pools, museums,… again, with no envy to their European counterparts.

    Those mixed-use spaces and that architecture of the pre-automobile era are not coming back. We can enjoy what’s left of that era but pursuing their return against the actual wishes of the population is probably as pointless as pursuing a return to the majestic architecture of the cities of the Antiquity.

  300. Did you delete your Twitter account or did Twitter ban you?

    “This Tweet is from an account that no longer exists”

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Paulina Porizkova

    Please press F to express your respects.

  301. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    @AP


    non-residents, this is a strong advantage. Ultimately, neighborhoods should serve their residents.
     
    In other words - the investment of the residents, only benefits the residents themselves. This investment has no dual benefit, as there is no creation of the public space, which benefits non-residents.

    Whereas the investment of the bourgeois residents in their own houses (by property developers) in e.g. 18th-19th century cities like London or Edinburgh, had partly benefited themselves (the residents), but it was also a "dual investment", which created some of the most celebrated and beautiful public spaces.


    You must not like gardens very much. When every house is different (and pretty) with various architectural details and styles, and surrounded by a well-landscaped yard, the effect is not at all boring
     
    Lol I enjoy gardening.

    The architect can develop an interesting single house in such a suburb. But it is a set of widely distributed individual houses, without coherent structure, variety of use, access for non-residents, and all is connected by roads. Scale and distances mean there is no walkability in standard post-automobile suburbs.

    These suburbs are not very interesting for a non-resident, except in a kind of sociological way. People do not say "I'm going on holiday to Washington DC, and will leave the city to walk around in the suburbs and look at suburban houses where the Americans actually live".

    Well, a few years ago, I enjoyed a couple of days, cycling everywhere in Palo Alto. There are some suburbs (Palo Alto) where it is practical to cycle. But it is just houses and houses and then separated retail areas and office areas.


    The pleasing combination of civilization and nature is not all boring.
     
    Such additional space and country, can be desirable for residents, but it creates a boring sprawl for non-residents - the car has created too much distance between buildings - and separated their uses - , to allow for to be actual civilization, in the urban sense.

    On the other hand, look at Primrose Hill of Engels again, as an example of city houses before the car. There is a large park for nature fans, and there are internally spacious houses. And very high density and walkability. https://www.google.ru/maps/@51.5400577,-0.1562433,3a,75y,239.73h,95.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxgwmCtWn4RGUceV9lMM99A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

    Replies: @Mikel, @AP

    In other words – the investment of the residents, only benefits the residents themselves. This investment has no dual benefit, as there is no creation of the public space, which benefits non-residents.

    There are actually beautiful parks among the houses. If there are lakes, there may be well-maintained public beaches. Some towns have public swimming pools. Typically non-residents pay extra for using such places but they are not barred. One notable exception is the beautiful auto suburb of Grosse Pointe – it sits next to Detroit and reasonably prevents non-residents from accessing its parks.

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2017/12/25/grosse-pointe-woods-adds-security-measure-city-park/108918358/

    The architect can develop an interesting single house in such a suburb. But it is a set of widely distributed individual houses, without coherent structure, variety of use, access for non-residents, and all is connected by roads.

    The eclectic mixture of styles is in itself interesting. And in many such old suburbs they are not very far apart. See the radical difference between this house and the one behind it:

    And here:

    Whereas the investment of the bourgeois residents in their own houses (by property developers) in e.g. 18th-19th century cities like London or Edinburgh, had partly benefited themselves (the residents), but it was also a “dual investment”, which created some of the most celebrated and beautiful public spaces.

    Chicago’s beautiful botanical gardens were built in suburbia (far from the city itself) in 1972:

    One needs a car to get from one’s home to such places.

    the car has created too much distance between buildings – and separated their uses

    While I think a log commute is horrible, I see no benefit from sleeping where one works and shops, especially if the cost of doing so is not having a yard, garden, or nice private house.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Some metropolitan areas are fortunate enough to have these types of world class gardens within their respective city limits:

    The Oregon Japanese Gardens:

    https://japanesegarden.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Peak-Color-Portland-Japanese-Garden.-Photo-by-Tyler-Quinn-2018-10-29-DSC01504_low-901x600.jpg

    San Francisco Botanical Gardens:
    https://photobotanic.photoshelter.com/img/pixel.gif

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  302. @Paulina Porizkova
    Did you delete your Twitter account or did Twitter ban you?

    "This Tweet is from an account that no longer exists"
     

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Please press F to express your respects.

  303. @Pale_Primate
    What happened to your twitter???

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88

    Replies: @to_be_frank...

    My money is on him being unpersonned…

  304. @Europe Europa
    British colonialism was highly privatised, the East India company, among others, was a private corporation. Blaming the British people as a whole for the legacy of colonialism seems not that far removed from blaming the actions of big corporations overseas on the native people of the country they originate from.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

    Well the EIC was given a trade monopoly by the crown and there were oversight committees of the British parliament that knew more or less what it was up to and had the power to intervene which was finally exercised after the revolt of 1857 when the UK assumed direct rule of India from the EIC.

    So this is not comparable to say blaming the US population for the misdeeds of say Coca Cola in a foreign country.

    Similarity are you going to argue that Iranian nationalists are wrong to blame the UK because the sabotaging of their nascent democracy was operationally done by AIOC(Now BP) along with the CIA and not directly by people employed by the Btitish government ?

    I don’t see the point of this sort of blame laying in practical terms i.e it is not that the British or anyone else will suddenly be moved by the past misdeeds of their ancestors but I see nothing wrong in setting the historical record straight now that many generations have elapsed.

  305. @AP
    @Dmitry


    In other words – the investment of the residents, only benefits the residents themselves. This investment has no dual benefit, as there is no creation of the public space, which benefits non-residents.
     
    There are actually beautiful parks among the houses. If there are lakes, there may be well-maintained public beaches. Some towns have public swimming pools. Typically non-residents pay extra for using such places but they are not barred. One notable exception is the beautiful auto suburb of Grosse Pointe - it sits next to Detroit and reasonably prevents non-residents from accessing its parks.

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2017/12/25/grosse-pointe-woods-adds-security-measure-city-park/108918358/


    The architect can develop an interesting single house in such a suburb. But it is a set of widely distributed individual houses, without coherent structure, variety of use, access for non-residents, and all is connected by roads.
     
    The eclectic mixture of styles is in itself interesting. And in many such old suburbs they are not very far apart. See the radical difference between this house and the one behind it:

    https://i0.wp.com/historicbuildingsct.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/PA084561.jpg

    And here:

    https://i.imgur.com/Tn1M67a.jpg


    Whereas the investment of the bourgeois residents in their own houses (by property developers) in e.g. 18th-19th century cities like London or Edinburgh, had partly benefited themselves (the residents), but it was also a “dual investment”, which created some of the most celebrated and beautiful public spaces.
     
    Chicago's beautiful botanical gardens were built in suburbia (far from the city itself) in 1972:

    https://fpdcc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/chicago-botanic-garden-island-jun13.jpg

    One needs a car to get from one's home to such places.


    the car has created too much distance between buildings – and separated their uses
     
    While I think a log commute is horrible, I see no benefit from sleeping where one works and shops, especially if the cost of doing so is not having a yard, garden, or nice private house.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Some metropolitan areas are fortunate enough to have these types of world class gardens within their respective city limits:

    The Oregon Japanese Gardens:


    San Francisco Botanical Gardens:

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQRfzl1zD9mapPlwd4ep3BpFaSn_ZCvtLa14sbNEb0e4ivEpP7T&usqp=CAU

    Charlotte Partridge Ordway Japanese Garden (Como Park), St. Paul, MN:

    https://minnevangelist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ordway-japanese-garden-3-600x800.jpg

  306. Some metropolitan areas are fortunate enough to have these types of world class gardens within their respective city limits:

    The Oregon Japanese Gardens:

    San Francisco Botanical Gardens:

  307. @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Some metropolitan areas are fortunate enough to have these types of world class gardens within their respective city limits:

    The Oregon Japanese Gardens:

    https://japanesegarden.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Peak-Color-Portland-Japanese-Garden.-Photo-by-Tyler-Quinn-2018-10-29-DSC01504_low-901x600.jpg

    San Francisco Botanical Gardens:
    https://photobotanic.photoshelter.com/img/pixel.gif

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  308. @Dmitry
    @Lars Porsena


    suburbs I like (if you can afford them) and the suburbs
     
    Such automobile suburban life can be pleasant for residents themselves, but it doesn't contribute to creating a public space.

    If you don't live there, it is not an interesting public space. E.g. If I want nature, I would visit real nature. And if I want houses, I would visit a city.

    However, the viability of such suburbs (which is result of the automobile), means that much of the bourgeoisie could be removed from the city, where their investment in residences might have created dual benefit of creating attractive public spaces.


    suburbs make absolutely no sense being outside the city if they look like this:
     
    They benefit the residents themselves though, not any less. Low bourgeois suburb follows the same rules as the haute bourgeois suburb. It is an improvement for the residents to live there, but not for the non-residents.

    Residential investment of American middle class suburb people is only consumed by themselves (as residents of the automobile suburb) in their houses, just as in the haute bourgeois suburb only residents are consuming any investments in good architecture, and so on.

    It's no surprise the American public spaces lost investment and vitality in the 20th century, as much of the middle class people were not in the city, except for work or retail. They were consuming their income privately in their houses, or in mono-use retail areas - public or city life, in the traditional sense, was deprived of this investment.


    Cars enable them to do this but the cars are not what’s driving it.

     

    Cars allowed for that "collective action problem", where it's better value for money for most people to live in a distant suburb. However, the collective result, is what we see in America today - decay of the city and its architecture.

    Most Americans have a high standard of living, but at the same time, foreigners love to talk about how "decaying" America is, and about how the homeless and drug addicts are covering the dystopian streets. It's because the middle class people are in their houses, in their distant suburbs.

    And the cities that we - tourists - are exploring, are often left for lumpen-proletariat (who are really the most ecological people, as they do not have cars), or are places which are mono-use (retail centres, office districts, and some residential dormitories for young professionals).

    Perhaps America is the pioneer the city can really be superfluous, but then can civilization, in our European sense, continue without the public sphere that was created by the city?

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    Here is the thing, the Czechs fled Cicero in the 1980’s. The car is the how, not the why. That is awful late for surmising those new-fangled cars and highways were the reason. So you have some causality reverse here, the city is not full of homeless drug addicts because the middle class fled, the middle class fled because the city was full of homeless drug addicts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicero,_Illinois

    Another thing to keep in mind, if you want to develop European style cities, is that the high density Levittown suburbs they fled to are a candidate to develop that, if only it had been developed with the old world taste of Cicero instead of the new modern McLevit style.

    The density of those side-to-side ranch homes is quite comparable to the density of the old residential neighborhoods of the city and inner suburbs, and to that of European cities.

    Florence Italy is about the size of Wichita Kansas. Although Wichita looks fugly compared to Florence.

    The 2nd largest city in IL, Rockford, a city of a couple hundred thousand about an hour northwest of Chicago, that would be a place for middle class and rich people to move to if you wanted to build European cities. Rockford is kind of a dump though. Who built this, Stalin?

    But that is how Europe is, 1 Rockford sized city an hour away from another. Europe is more sprawled out than the US cities are. It’s just that Europe, it’s not considered sprawl, it’s considered a different small city where they speak a different language and have a different flag.

    To recreate that you would want to scatter mid sized towns and cities all over and spread out. But they would be built as cohesive, somewhat self contained towns and cities. Not like Levitown. More like Rockford but less poor and soviet. They would have to somehow become extravagantly rich commercial hubs like Euro cities when the glory architecture was built.

    But that’s the issue with post WWII city planning and architecture. Levittown is a giant cluster of small detached houses with a row of strip malls up the highway. It’s not a great layout.

    But if the solution was trying to pack people back into cities like Chicago, in it’s current boundaries, it would not produce European cities it would be Asian cities.

    To get European, you would have to spread them out down the highway but you would have to build nicer places with better layouts. Neither Europeans nor European-Americans really want to live in Chinese cities, with or without the homeless drug addicts.

    So here’s the thing about Florence, it’s a city of 400k an hour down the highway from Bologna. Bologna is a city of 1 million people, but it actually has less density than Florence. Florence is also about 3 hours from Genoa and Rome.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Lars Porsena

    It is hard to talk about future of anything these day and architecture is no exception.

    But I still think having a look at what Singapore is becoming is worth it:

    https://images.app.goo.gl/hYnTppeg8ni53zTJ9

  309. @Lars Porsena
    @Dmitry

    Here is the thing, the Czechs fled Cicero in the 1980's. The car is the how, not the why. That is awful late for surmising those new-fangled cars and highways were the reason. So you have some causality reverse here, the city is not full of homeless drug addicts because the middle class fled, the middle class fled because the city was full of homeless drug addicts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicero,_Illinois

    Another thing to keep in mind, if you want to develop European style cities, is that the high density Levittown suburbs they fled to are a candidate to develop that, if only it had been developed with the old world taste of Cicero instead of the new modern McLevit style.

    The density of those side-to-side ranch homes is quite comparable to the density of the old residential neighborhoods of the city and inner suburbs, and to that of European cities.

    Florence Italy is about the size of Wichita Kansas. Although Wichita looks fugly compared to Florence.

    The 2nd largest city in IL, Rockford, a city of a couple hundred thousand about an hour northwest of Chicago, that would be a place for middle class and rich people to move to if you wanted to build European cities. Rockford is kind of a dump though. Who built this, Stalin?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Fordham_Dam_Rockford_IL.jpg

    But that is how Europe is, 1 Rockford sized city an hour away from another. Europe is more sprawled out than the US cities are. It's just that Europe, it's not considered sprawl, it's considered a different small city where they speak a different language and have a different flag.

    To recreate that you would want to scatter mid sized towns and cities all over and spread out. But they would be built as cohesive, somewhat self contained towns and cities. Not like Levitown. More like Rockford but less poor and soviet. They would have to somehow become extravagantly rich commercial hubs like Euro cities when the glory architecture was built.

    But that's the issue with post WWII city planning and architecture. Levittown is a giant cluster of small detached houses with a row of strip malls up the highway. It's not a great layout.

    But if the solution was trying to pack people back into cities like Chicago, in it's current boundaries, it would not produce European cities it would be Asian cities.

    https://images.chinahighlights.com/attraction/shenzhen/shenzhen.jpg

    To get European, you would have to spread them out down the highway but you would have to build nicer places with better layouts. Neither Europeans nor European-Americans really want to live in Chinese cities, with or without the homeless drug addicts.

    So here's the thing about Florence, it's a city of 400k an hour down the highway from Bologna. Bologna is a city of 1 million people, but it actually has less density than Florence. Florence is also about 3 hours from Genoa and Rome.

    Replies: @Ano4

    It is hard to talk about future of anything these day and architecture is no exception.

    But I still think having a look at what Singapore is becoming is worth it:

    https://images.app.goo.gl/hYnTppeg8ni53zTJ9

  310. @AnonFromTN
    @Menes


    Ideally, teachers, cops, judges etc should be somewhat proportional ethnically to the people they teach, police, judge etc.
     
    What about brain or heart surgeons? Or airline pilots? I sincerely wish a URM surgeon to operate on you. If you survive, by any chance, I wish your flight back to be operated by a URM pilot. Let God sort you out.

    Replies: @A123, @Menes

    I sincerely wish a URM surgeon to operate on you. If you survive, by any chance, I wish your flight back to be operated by a URM pilot.

    Damn son, I touched a raw nerve. Must be because you are a racist teacher who screwed up the lives of his non-white students. Why else would you be so personally affronted by my post? How can any moral person disagree so passionately with a suggestion to bar racist haters from public professions that require impartiality, such as teachers, police, judges etc?

    Would you like your children to be taught by hardcore Ukrainian Nationalists who have a pathological hatred of Russians? Then why would you wish the equivalent on other parents? Unlike you (so petty and mean-spirited) I wouldn’t wish that such an Ukrainian operate on your brain either.

    Obviously you do not believe in the Golden Rule of Morality. Or in Social Justice. In other words, you are a bad hombre.

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