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Is now ready for 2018.

As I wrote last year:

The Weighted Fraction Count (WFC) of the Nature Index is is probably the single best proxy for quality-adjusted scientific output in the world today. You can read about the methodology here. The first publicly accessible Nature Index dates to 2013, and covers the year 2012. 

The data for this year is attached below.

Main observations:

1. As I wrote in The Geography of the Noosphere, China continues gaining ground on the rest of the world. It now produces 56% as much elite level science as the United States.

I would also note that as of 2018, China has basically converged with the US in publication of citable documents (569,000 vs. 570,000), though these numbers don’t take quality into account.

2. All other major trends remain unchanged:

  • Relative decline of the European Med and developed East Asia.
  • In particular, even as China has doubled its share of world scientific output since 2012 from 9% to 18%, Taiwan’s share has halved from 1.2% to 0.6%. As of this year, Russia has overtaken it.
  • Relative stagnation in most of the rest of the world.

3. Vietnam has made the Top 50 for the first time ever, improving its relative position by over 50% (if from a very modest base). I expect to see very strong growth there henceforth, since Vietnamese IQ appears to be similar to that of the East Asian ethnoses.

***

Data for 2018:

2018 Country/territory FC 2017 FC 2018
1 United States of America (USA) 19859.38 19596.14
2 China 9228.7 11025.51
3 Germany 4424.83 4394.32
4 United Kingdom (UK) 3672.59 3593.76
5 Japan 3088.25 2940.68
6 France 2234.45 2109.06
7 Canada 1563.41 1559.53
8 Switzerland 1351.55 1349.66
9 South Korea 1293.86 1304.75
10 Australia 1097.22 1213.9
11 Spain 1104.01 1114.33
12 Italy 1037.41 986.45
13 India 960.68 923.06
14 Netherlands 915.51 895.16
15 Sweden 605.31 603.24
16 Singapore 598.33 586.56
17 Israel 587.71 584.12
18 Russia 409.49 447.3
19 Belgium 403.89 396.4
20 Denmark 361.23 391.93
21 Taiwan 424.31 374.77
22 Austria 375.52 354.3
23 Brazil 260.83 290.45
24 Poland 219.33 224.59
25 Finland 194.78 207.1
26 Czech Republic 194.04 191.09
27 Norway 189.33 186.58
28 Portugal 134.65 158.08
29 Saudi Arabia 139.84 130.31
30 New Zealand 128.58 120.65
31 Iran 88.05 109.73
32 Ireland 125.56 106.21
33 Chile 100.23 101.59
34 Mexico 77.69 98.26
35 Argentina 97.74 95.49
36 South Africa 68.65 86.09
37 Greece 82.96 76.92
38 Hungary 77.02 75.36
39 Turkey 59.06 69.94
40 Slovenia 40.72 40.06
41 Thailand 37.47 38.22
42 Croatia 27.48 30.04
43 Iceland 26.76 25.91
44 Pakistan 39.64 25.65
45 Romania 21.2 22.36
46 Ukraine 21.38 20.51
47 Luxembourg 18.97 18.53
48 Estonia 26.09 16.17
49 Vietnam 10.28 16.08
50 United Arab Emirates 18.81 15.99

 

 
• Category: Science • Tags: Science 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. I thought you were somewhat more pessimistic on Vietnam. I’m not sure if they’re somewhat worse than the Chinese, or at similar levels – either way, they’re probably capable of joining the first world.

  3. Dmitry says:

    Taiwan’s share has halved from 1.2% to 0.6%. As of this year, Russia has overtaken it.

    But with 6,4 times less population than Russia. Somehow does not make sense in your mind, assuming this is a fair measurement of research.

    Does Taiwan have even a famous university?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  4. Mitleser says:
    @Dmitry

    National Taiwan University seems decent, even ahead of the universities of the Jews.

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/best-universities-asia

  5. i’ve been reading these reports for 2 or 3 years, and have a few quibbles with the methodology. but nothing worth getting into some big post or back and forth discussion on here. the reports do give a good general idea of what’s going on.

    one important point though is that the united states now punishes science and scientists. not in the common way HBD people talk about – restricting certain areas of science – but socially.

    scientists have been turned into low status, low pay people. no respect, nobody cares, nobody makes any money.

    as such, people smart enough to become scientists, are smart enough to realize it’s a terrible career decision. so they increasingly don’t do it.

    this explains A LOT about the various trends in science, not only in the US, but worldwide.

  6. personally, i deliberately did not get my PHD or get deep into academic robotics at some university department, after considering and reflecting on this stuff, and that was back in the 90s. i can’t imagine how terrible of a career science is in general, today. especially now, when they literally want to block you and replace you with cheap foreigners.

    i have several friends who are professional scientists. or were. if you work in industry, your career is over at 40, and you go do something else. by force. if you’re in academia, you become a tenured professor by 40, or…your career is over, and you go do something else.

    most scientists careers end at 40, then they start from scratch in life, right at the exact time all the doctors and lawyers and finance guys and computer industry guys are entering their career prime. making 5 to 10 times as much money, with tons of social respect and status, and with families and houses and big nice cars. scientists, a lot less of that.

  7. Svevlad says:

    Europe seems to be shrinking, but on the other hand, there are only 14 countries that shown growth, though seems like these are just “catching up” to their true potential. I’m surprised about Bosnia tho. I have no idea what they are publishing for a rapidly aging population stereotyped as morons

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  8. “I have no idea what they are publishing for a rapidly aging population stereotyped as morons”

    nothing. that’s one of my quibbles. any published, peer reviewed thing counts here. it doesn’t take into consideration whether it’s of any value at all. one mathematician or astronomer could publish a few totally irrelevant, but technically sound papers, on the observation of negative numbers or orbits of known asteroids, and that counts as output.

    we’re not asking for landmark papers only here, but any PHD thesis level work for a STEM degree that is factually accurate and gets passed by a supervising professor, probably counts as output. so all those thousands of degree awarding papers turned in by PHD candidates every year in the US, and then filed away in some department records archive, never to be read by anybody ever again, is the base level of work here, i’m guessing. i’m not saying nature is literally counting those papers, just that the average quality of work in those papers is the quality of work that rises to the level for inclusion in the annual nature survey on “scientific output”.

    ted kaczynski’s PHD granting thesis on “Boundary Problems” for example, would count here, i’m very confident. how relevant was it to anything? not very, i suspect.

  9. Mitleser says:
    @Svevlad

    I’m surprised about Bosnia tho. I have no idea what they are publishing for a rapidly aging population stereotyped as morons

    Oh come on, they are 37/43 on the European index.

    • Replies: @Svevlad
  10. Curious says:

    Pretty astounding to me that a small country like Iceland (population ~350K) can produce more elite science than a country like Pakistan (population over 220 million). Given their huge economic problems right now, it means that the discrepancy is likely to widen further, both in population size and in elite science produced.

    Tiny Slovenia produces more elite science than Thailand, a country with a population greater than France. And unlike Pakistan, Thailand’s economy is not a joke and it is doing reasonably well.

    Given this, all the scaretalk about the so-called “Asian century” should perhaps be dialled back – or at least moderated. Aside from East Asia, I don’t see much worry on the horizon.

    P.S. Australia’s per capita number is greater than Japan or France and on par with the UK. Impressive. Also doing better than Canada in the same metric.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Ali Choudhury
  11. “Pretty astounding to me that a small country like Iceland (population ~350K) can produce more elite science than a country like Pakistan”

    wait until you see iceland outplay all those countries at soccer too. and then win world’s strongest man.

    western europeans or bust. all of humanity depends on them. 90% of human capital concentrated in one group. 4 billion people to be added to the global population between 2020 and 2100. 99% of them not worth a damn.

    • Agree: Peter Johnson
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  12. blatnoi says:

    This nature index is highly suspect, as I said before in a previous post on the subject. They even had a weighted average, based on the size of the university, where they counted the number of papers in their stupid Nature 82 (what they think the best 82 journals are) and divided it by the total number of papers in a broader index that tries to include all non-predatory or serious science journals. Every paper published in the broader literature and not in the 82 is thus detrimental to your university. I had a choice to publish last year in the 82 but did not since I didn’t know about this index until a month ago, and went with a journal that I liked better, so I screwed my university’s rankings. Anyways, according to this weighted average, my current university is in the top 10 in the world, which just reinforces my belief that it is garbage. I can believe that my postdoc school is in the top 10, maybe… but some of those top 10 places are a joke.

    As for the comments by prime noticer, a lot of stuff I agree with there about science not being a lucrative career anymore for those reasons. Some people don’t really pay attention to that and just do what they like until they end up in research and tenured… however, it’s not a smart decision I suppose. I would still argue that a lot more of what’s killing research is the fakery that is especially spreading like a cancer (ironically) in biomedical research. It concentrates money in the hands of those who build careers on fraud, their students are the ones who get jobs, and honest people are not funded and are kicked out of science at 40. It also depresses others who are thinking about a career in science research even in light of knowing those detrimental things about employment prospects. Since the last Karin post where I had a link, there have been a few more big stories, and here is the latest shameful display from a major Western research institute:

    https://forbetterscience.com/2019/06/18/manchester-research-misconduct-concerned-only-one-member-of-the-research-group/

    • Replies: @SilverSurfer
  13. Dmitry says:
    @prime noticer

    human capital concentrated

    This index, does not reflect anything about human capital.

    Taiwan does not have over 6 times higher human capital level, per person, than Russia. (It is absurd to infer human capital level, from an activity that requires government investment).

    Rather, what we see in Taiwan, is economy which invests more money in funding production of this kind of papers.


    UK is producing proportionally (per person) 13 times more research output (according to this table above) than Russia.

    UK does not have 13 times more human capital level than Russia (really, human capital level between UK and Russia is probably almost the same).

    On the other hand, UK likely invests proportionally 13 times more money on this type of research, than Russia.

    The difference in the nature index between Russia and UK, is reflecting funding priorities, rather than any difference of human capital between populations (and to the extent the latter exists, it is eliminated by the easy movement of researchers between institutions of different countries, depending on the funding and salaries available to them).

    western europeans… 90% of

    If you look at the lead country – USA. In the USA, many of the most productive Russian researchers work, also much of the most productive Chinese researchers work in the USA, the most productive Argentinian researchers work in the USA, the most productive Spanish researchers work in the USA, etc (for most countries in the world, except perhaps Singapore or Switzerland, where they can pay equal to American salaries).

    So the most productive Russian and Chinese (and many other nationalities’) researchers, are adding to the top positioned country, and braindraining there probably proportionally more than Western European countries (which can have smaller salary gaps relative to America, as well as non-pecuniary benefits – even just access to Fellows’ garden in a Cambridge University college, or good dinners in high table).

    • Replies: @Lin
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  14. anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curious

    P.S. Australia’s per capita number is greater than Japan or France and on par with the UK. Impressive. Also doing better than Canada in the same metric.

    Australia has smarter Chinese than Canada and having much better weather makes for happier Chinese scientists who achieve more.

  15. Lin says:
    @Dmitry

    Both Russians and Chinese lament the brain drain but indian elite celebrate theirs
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/20/tech/h1b-visa-cap-india-us/index.html

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Vishnugupta
  16. Mitleser says:
    @Lin

    No surprise.

    Indians seems to prefer to take over instead of creating their own.

  17. @Curious

    Any Pakistani academic with half a brain leaves the country. I am surprised it is that high. The local higher education commission started doling out faculty promotions and funds on the basis of number of journal articles published and Phds granted with predictable results.

  18. @Dmitry

    The difference in the nature index between Russia and UK, is reflecting funding priorities, rather than any difference of human capital between populations…

    If you take a look at a list of companies in a typical hi-tech sector, e.g. oil services companies (something I am loosely familiar with), then you will see almost a similar – i.e. order of magnitude – disproportion between the UK and Russia. Even though one would think that Russia ought to have a comparative advantage in this sector.

    In general, I am not familiar of any country with strong hi-tech sectors that doesn’t also score highly on the Nature Index. This stands to reason, because industrial R&D and academia are now very tightly linked. This was not so much the case in the 19th century, when the US had strong hi-tech sectors while producing little in the way of pure science. But there were limits to that even there. The most scientifically dominant country, Germany, also had the world’s leading electric and chemical industries.

    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    , @Dmitry
  19. Lin says:
    @Mitleser

    NASA has 58% Indian employees —- false

    In the next few years, India will be the World’s IT hub–They’ve been saying that for 2 decades
    ………..
    Simply put, to the hindu elite, ‘nationalism’ is a mental opioid to ease their pain and excuse their desire to get the fuck out and migrate to countries with GDP 20-30 times than of hindustan and avoid the unpleasant sight of watching walking skeletons begging in the streets.

    From Chinese source: average Huawei pay about 680000 yuan/yr or $98500/yr
    Annual total Huawei payroll > US$20 billion
    Below those of developed countries but sure rewarding for Chinese grads.
    https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1635741183953720489&wfr=spider&for=pc

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  20. DB Cooper says:
    @Lin

    Those are not brain drains. Those are bullshit artist drains.

  21. DB Cooper says:
    @Mitleser

    “In the next few years, India will be the World’s IT hub.”

    Don’t be silly, its no going to happen. Like Lin said the Indians have been saying this for decades.

  22. @Lin

    Basic coding / software implementation jobs is hardly a sought after profession and does not attract graduates from iit or other elite colleges.

    Indian it industry is 90%+ very low skill coding and package implementation work.

    These people going abroad is hardly brain drain..

    For serious work we have domestic specialized schools like iist which is a feeder school for ISRO sort of modeled on France’s SUPAERO etc

    But yes India needs to do a lot more …

    • Replies: @Anonnia
    , @Anonnia
  23. @blatnoi

    > They even had a weighted average, based on the size of the university, where they counted the number of papers in their stupid Nature 82 (what they think the best 82 journals are) and divided it by the total number of papers in a broader index that tries to include all non-predatory or serious science journals.

    Go read the FAQ. The (FC) weight is the ratio of the number of authors for that particular inst over the total number of authors for that particular paper. Nothing directly related to the size of university.

    The Nature 82 journals are selected by a independent panel of experts not employees from Nature Journal. I counted only 17/82 with the word “Nature” in the journal names. It is your words against the panel of independent experts.

    Previously the old weighted Fractional Count WFC index placed lower weighting on astronomy papers and Harvard was on a constant downward trend while Stanford was on a rising trend. This time the “renewed” FC index did not mention the penalty on the astronomy papers and Harvard’s trend line is horizontal and Stanford’s trend is negative. Did someone whisper something in Nature Journal’s ear? With such drastic change, for transparency, shouldn’t Nature Index keep the old WFC data as reference rather than just buried them??

    • Replies: @blatnoi
  24. Anonnia says:
    @Vishnugupta

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/wandering-earth/#comment-3270924

    Jatt Sikh

    Not even Half Crore KeshaDhari Half of them Old.

    Still Lakhs of Soldiers, Policeman, Nihang Singh.

    Hunter Gatherer Levels of Mobilization in Modern Peacetime.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jungnihang/status/1142425683672674304

    Another similar account is when a distressed Brahmin father came to Baba Baghel Singh because his daughter had been kidnapped by an affluent Sayyid. The Khalsa decimated his forces, freed other Hindu women he had abducted, and tied him to a roof and burnt him alive for his crimes

    ਸਤਿਸ਼੍ਰੀਅਕਾਲ।।

    • LOL: Anonymoose
  25. Anonnia says:
    @Vishnugupta

    The methods of regimes depend on how they conceptualize problems. For liberal regimes, this is generally a question of individual incentives, so liberal regimes rely on the legal system and economic incentives in solving problems.

    Hindus will not take over shit. They are enslaved at a very fundamental level, They have Forgotten Ksytria Dharma.

    Watching Hindu conduct of the last millenia We are Thankful that Hari Rests in the Khalsa Panth, The True Hindu Dharma.

    The True Vedic Dharma who will bring a Rule of Dharma to All Three Worlds।।

    https://youtu.be/kzVXyG2CQGE

    Hor Ta Tenu Patta Hi Aa Kusriya.
    Tera Janeu Ate Teri Dhee Di Izzat

    Ta Khalsa Hi Bachaou ਗਾ।।

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

  26. @Mitleser

    US tech CEOs with Indian ancestry have little chance of setting up competing corporations in India. Not so with the tech CEOs with Chinese ancestry. In fact many past tech executives with Chinese ancestry were prosecuted if they wanted to set up competing corporations in China.

    However it is OK for US to pinch tech executives from other countries to compete against their previous employers, e.g. Apple’s chief for battery technology is an ex-Korean executive from Samsung.

    • Replies: @Anonnia
  27. Anonnia says:
    @SilverSurfer

    Indian (Hindu) elite wants the subcontinent as another Latin America.

    Providing cheap labour and whores in exchange for a spot on the table.

    They have no grand vision and are being reduced by the swarm of sharks & pirahnas masquerading in human form (cattle-killers)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_in_religion_and_mythology

    From having dominion over Armenia & influence in Rome herself, they have accepted the loss of both Indus & Ganga (Bengal)

    With a population heavily invested in Liberalism or even outright converting for upward mobility, an outright muslim majority among urban youth (35% overall) and a Catholic Church which constitutionally holds a De facto monopoly on primary education and non agricultural land ownership;

    Why does anyone take a nation seriously who has gone from Worshipping the Sword to a Naked Faqir??

    ਚਾਰੇ ਜੁਗ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਚੱਲਗ ਤੇਗ ਦੀ

    The tale of the Sword will reverberate across the Four Ages

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6mXKZyUUAAwywb?format=jpg&name=small

    They have shorn the Hair their Ancestors held sacrosanct and thrown away their weapons in terror before the Turks.

    How dare they ask for a place among Heroes?

    The Europeans are in even more of a pathetic state however, they have converted to the religion of their ancient enemy and now act as his lackeys.

    Words are wasted here.

  28. Lin says:

    Yes, I checked that the % of IIT grads who migrated has dropped significantly. Congrat !
    But IITs only turn out a small number of grads. Or right now its the 2nd pier of educated Indians who want to migrate ?
    The number of H1B visas also has dropped due to US immigration restriction and change in tech.
    https://qz.com/india/1000438/the-h-1b-numbers-for-indians-began-falling-even-before-trump-took-over-from-obama/
    ………..
    I would say one should wait for more data to draw conclusion how successful the Indians have been retaining top talents(though definitely there has been improvement).
    However seems unemployment remains the most serious problem there. I recently I read 90,000 indian railway opennings received 25 millions applications(including many with commerce&tech degrees)

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    , @Anonnia
  29. @Lin

    There is a massive problem of internal brain drain of top science and maths graduates towards finance and business management.

    Very few pursue science careers..

    IIT is basically a stamp of high IQ in the Indian job market not more than 10% of graduates in IIT have any interest in pursuing pure science careers.

    At the undergraduate level students interested in pursuing hard sciences typically come from good tier 2 institutes like NIT Surathkal..

    At the higher research level we have ONE world class institute IISc and maybe 3-4 others which are decent enough like TIFR ,BARC etc. Indian R&D can barely absorb it’s own meagre crop of quality graduates who are into pursuing science careers..

    As for the code coolies their tech competence is comparable to a women studies graduate who has taken a few basic programming courses on the side..it is a good strategy to ship the whole bunch abroad the remittances they send are far more valuable than any scientific contribution they are likely to make..

  30. DreadIlk says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Priorities. Russia has a lot of building to do.

    I can speak only about US scientific papers but everyone there uses keywords to get funding. Diverse work group/green tech/some type of justice equals chaching.

  31. Anonnia says:
    @Lin

    Bangalore has a number of silicon valley returnees.

    India has a socio cultural problem with hating her own Sanskriti (civilization) atm, otherwise is doing fine and progressing on all metrics.

    EXCEPT THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE

    Imagine gathering a stack of papers, without having glue to hold them. They will blow away with the lightest breeze but appear impressive to a fool.

    Such is the state of the world,

    • Replies: @Lin
  32. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    typical hi-tech sector, e.g. oil services companies (something I am loosely familiar with), then you will see almost a similar – i.e. order of magnitude – disproportion between the UK and Russia

    Sure I agree with this comment. E.g. UK economy is a lot more advanced and diversified, and produces far more jobs in a lot of skilled areas .

    Nature index measures this at least collaterally. I.e. more advanced and diversified economies locate more advanced and diverse academic research as well.

    Relation to human capital can be less clear, though, even if you just look at the private sector effect (which might be collaterally related to the academic research level). Russia produces more highly skilled graduates of universities, than good enough jobs available. In Ireland, the opposite. So with the private sector, we even have mismatches in relation to just graduates that universities are producing.

    any country with strong hi-tech sectors that doesn’t also score highly on the Nature Index.

    There can be separations now though, between the academic jobs and the private sector level in a country.

    Israel has bad and few academic jobs, with very low salaries, at low relatively quality universities (as a result, most of their most famous computer scientists emigrate to America). On the other hand – despite the lack of academic jobs -, it has a successful private sector in the same sector, with more jobs than candidates.

    Spain has lots of famous universities, where they will do a lot of academic research, including with a lot of EU funding. On the other hand, the economy produces less jobs, than the universities’ produce skilled workers. As a result, Spanish engineers are common to emigrate to UK and Ireland.

    I know a Spanish colleague, who is from a large city. He previously works in a startup in his home city (which was purchased by a American company for $150 million). But he says this was the only successful startup exit in the entire history of that city, and that it employed maybe 100 people. Yet his city has three universities, including a very famous and prestigious university with thousands of students.

  33. Dmitry says:
    @Mitleser

    India has such a vast population with unrealized potential, I’m not sure they need to worry.

    With such a large population, India will always have a vast supply of clever people (far more than current jobs available in India), and main factor limiting the number of skilled workers at the moment will be just lack of education and opportunities for the Indian population, rather than any emigration to America.

  34. Lin says:
    @Anonnia

    Many people from older civilizations, like arabs, hindus, Chinese.. have IMO unhealthy attachment to their ‘traditional’ culture. Look the past is passe, gone, the emerging future is the reality.
    (The jews have the guts to have their ‘reform’ movement, started by Moses Mendelssohn, grandfather of the composer. I read 53% of jews in US eat beacon)
    Some examples:

    –Islam, geopolitically is a vehicle of arab influence/power. All the taboos, dos and don’ts like pork free diet, burqa, polygamy.., were originally arab cultural facets. Because islam is officially a religion, so those customs were sanctified and became hard to eradicate. So far there’s no successful de-arabisation of islam. Shiite Islam is a dilution of sunni arab power so the Shiite Persians are hated for that

    –IMO, regarding Chinese traditional ‘culture/tradition’, only the followings are specifically Chinese and worth keeping:a)Language(Chinese idiograms/characters are pictorial, so nurture geometric cognition ability) b)Secularism(we all know Confucius was a bastard) c)Sense of historical lineage(awareness but not restorationism),like the average Chinese hi-school grads can read 2000 yrs old text &observe some festivals. Most Chinese who babble this or that on ‘preserving Chinese tradition’ don’t know WTF they’re talking about.

    –Hinduism(forgive me, I know that’s not the traditional word)—Its a most complex system, historically, geographically and ‘ethnically/racially’. Honestly, its a social segregation scheme that traditionally places the brahmins at the top and Dalits at the bottom, with all the sugar coating like ‘spirituality, reincarnation..” thrown in. Sure the hindu nationalists disagree and constructed quite an amount of counter rhetorics, like blaming the caste system on the english and the muslims.
    As I pointed out in other threads, the Indians have very poor pre-mughal historiography, so the hinduwadis can have all their fun to rewrite history. It’ll take a superman politician(more capable than Mr. Modi IMO) to sort out. First thing first, any good scheme to reduce caste elitism?
    ……………..
    I suggest people here to write Robert Silverberg’s ‘Good news from the Vatican’, a short Sci-fi on a robot Pope..

    • Replies: @Anonnia
  35. Anonnia says:
    @Lin

    Only in South at best and caste pre dates any Aryan invasion.

    Hierarchy is feature of agricultural not pastoral civilizations.

    The lowest caste ritually Jats have the most steppe ancestry and resemble Vedics the most.

    https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/01/10/are-haryana-jats-the-closest-living-descendents-of-our-vedic-forefathers/

    Ksytria is the highest according to Scripture.

    Many of the Dalits in the North were created through Buddhism’s more Puritan teachings and Turko Mughal policy such as having defeated armies carry human waste.

    Now, if you’re suggesting we slaughter cows the penalty for this is burning alive.

    If you’re suggesting inter caste marriage especially of upper female to lower male same penalty.

    If you’re suggesting we cut our hair and throw down our weapons you are no friend of our’s.

    No country who instructs their kids in non native tongue does well scientifically.

    India is a wannabe anglo inferiority complex ridden society where the elite claim there is no Hindu culture.

    Everyone is an immigrant invader and this composite culture means everyone is welcome and nobody is really native – the marxist view.


    The main tradition to preserve is the lower status of females which encourages increased fertility.

    Anyway, I’m sure you have good intentions but being a liberal or worse a christian worship of white people is built into your cultural DNA so you’re of little use to your motherland let alone anyone else’s।।

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

  36. Lin says:
    3290473

    I understand your anguish fully; but be reminded of the future.
    Lets ignore the feasibility of presenting a new version of the caste system based on available linguistic/archeological/scriptural evidence, like did the Mughals initiate or just adopting an existing custom of forcing shit on the Dalits; such attempts would be mostly an exercise of psychological relief if the followings fail to happen:
    —The improvement of economic and social lots of the Dalits relative to other castes
    —The containment of the hindu-muslim antagonism
    Finally, all my blessing to Mr. Modi and your fellow rakshaks of bharat.
    (BTW, I’m a Christian of alternative conviction in the sense I admire Jesus as a moral giant but it doesn’t mean I agree with everything he said nor I belong to any congregation. God is technically a very powerful E.T. alien but not omnipotent. Earth is like a petri dish created by God the biologist and humans are like the micro-organisms inside the petri dish. God is often malevolent towards human considered he killed all the innocent egyptian first born because the egyptian Pharaoh didn’t get along with Moses his servant. Moses and his gang also killed all the gold-calf worshippers(proto-hindus)during the exodus. Human will break out from petri dish earth someday)

    • Replies: @Anonnia
  37. Anonnia says:
    @Lin

    So you’re basically a Chinese who has adopted mid Western red neck culture from like above top secret.

    Ancient Chinese also banned beef I’m sorry to tell you, larping as a christian won’t get you white women.

    • Replies: @Lin
  38. blatnoi says:
    @SilverSurfer

    Of course I did read the methodology after the dean told me two months ago that the Nature 82 index is important. Everything you said is exactly in my comment, I just kept out the FC part as it’s more confusing. The FC for the Nature 82 papers is divided by the total number of papers in indexed journals. It would still give a very similar ranking if it was only the Nature 82 papers divided by the total indexed journal papers. The FC fudge would be a wash and would probably change rankings plus or minus five.

    “The Nature 82 journals are selected by a independent panel of experts not employees from Nature Journal. I counted only 17/82 with the word “Nature” in the journal names. It is your words against the panel of independent experts.”

    Yes, my word is better. It’s mostly because the independent experts are the same as me, and I trust myself more than others on which journals in my field are better. That’s another reason why the index is utter garbage. Not only because they put my university in the top 10. It’s also because the name of the journals in the 82 index will probably vary depending on who is on the panel and the panel has to be limited by its nature. They did do a good job of having the best journals in my field there. But once you get down to the 40-82 part, there is a lot of interchangeable ones. And they still missed out one of the best journals and and put the one that had ‘nature’ in its name in there instead.

  39. Lin says:
    @Anonnia

    I’m sorry to tell you “Ancient Chinese also banned beef ” is wrong.
    You probably misread certain hinduwadis propaganda. I read a certain Chinese buddhist emperor had once banned beef. The fact that it was once banned means it usually was NOT banned. Slaughering and cooking an ENTIRE bull was for a grand feast for the wealthy mostly because beef was less available and the bull was a draft animal. As I mentioned before Chinese have pretty good historical records. I read half of Chinese counties even have their local history records.

    My goodness, did you say ” has adopted mid Western red neck culture from like above top secret.” Honestly you’ve no idea what you’re babbling about.
    ……….
    For your own mental comfort, please read again the grand work of that hinduwadis ‘historian’ PN.Oak who claimed bharat once had an empire that included nowadays London and Rome was derived from ‘Rama’.
    http://koenraadelst.blogspot.com/2010/06/incurable-hindu-fondness-for-pn-oak.html

  40. Lin says:

    (My mistake, a Tang dynasty emperor likely issued a decree to ban cow slaughter in his realm.
    Other than that some localities might had once banned slaughtering of healthy farming draft bulls but older animals were definitely slaughtered for meat and hide(for armour))
    Talking about beef ban, order a bigmac in Bharat and see if the meat pattie inside is chicken or beef.
    A brief history of beef in china and some chinese beef recipes
    http://www.flavorandfortune.com/dataaccess/article.php?ID=574

    • Replies: @Anonn
  41. Anonn says:
    @Lin

    We will burn alive all cow killers & all cow slaughter is today spirtually consistent with Moses & his genocide of the calf worshippers.

    You are a christcuck not a real chinese||

    • Replies: @Lin
  42. Lin says:
    @Anonn

    Thank you, my hindi bhai,
    I genuinely welcome such hinduwadis policy like:
    We will burn alive all cow killers & all cow slaughter is today spirtually consistent with Moses & his genocide of the calf worshippers
    for simple enlightened Chinese self-interest.
    Fact is the more hinduised the Indians, the more veggie their diet would be. If 1.37 billions Indians start eating more meat, it will be push up prices of fodder grains like soy…which china imports a lot(85 million tons the last trade fig. I read).
    …..
    Meat consumption of poor 3rd world Chinese is only about 60 kg/capita/yr; the America fig. is about 100 kg.

    • Replies: @Anonn
  43. Anonn says:
    @Lin

    I’m not a Hindu

    ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋਇ ਆਮਿਖ ਭਖੈ, ਬਿੱਪ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੋ ਖਾਇ ।
    A Sikh is one who eats meat, a Brahmin is one who does not.

    • Replies: @Lin
  44. Lin says:
    @Anonn

    According to the indian constitution, jains, Sikhs, Buddhists..are hindus though seems Buddhists, even those in the subcontinent, want to distant themselves from Hinduism. Some hindus also blame the mughal conquest of the subcontinent on the Buddhists.
    http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2224-removing-the-sheen-from-buddhism/page__s__65f6cf3dd4f5c39d862ba47311fb4511
    As with the Sikhs, some are pro-hindus and some are khalistanis.
    …………………….
    There’s an interesting event related to beef feast in 628 BC during the Chinese ‘Spring and Autumn’ period:
    The king of Qin launched a sneak attack against the kingdom of Cheng with 400 chariots.The advancing column was spotted by a Cheng merchant with 12 cattles on the road to trade. Besides sending a messenger to the Cheng king to alert him, he dressed up and masqueraded as an emissary sent by the king of Cheng and talked to the Qin force commander:”Our king knows your coming and he wants to give you a feast..”. Then he gifted his 12 cattles at his expenses to the Qin force commander. So the Qin commander thought the element of surprise was lost, and called off his attack against Cheng. Chinese pupils learn this piece of history as an example of patriotic motivation.

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