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Poll shows that Russians are basically ~50/50 on whether women changing their surname about marriage should be “mandatory” or not.

This happens to be the exact same figure in the US. Half of Americans believe it should be a “government requirement.” And that survey is from 2019.

This suggests that Russians aren’t fundamentally more “conservative” than Americans (to the extent that term means something).

This reminds me of my post predicting gay marriage in Poland by 2030. But what it was really about is that the idea that people’s beliefs are largely set by the cultural elites. With something like gay marriage, it became a culture war wedge issue, with elite authorities such as the MSM pushing it in US, while Russia to the contrary started to aggressively “differentiate” its brand on that issue from around 2010. Russian support for gay marriage, which was approaching 1/3 of the population in cities such as Moscow and Saint-Petersburg during the 2000s, collapsed during the 2010s.

But other issues not so “ideologically loaded” didn’t see anything like this.

Today, almost 70% of Americans support gay marriage. Truly radical and absurd ideas such as transgender in sports have 30% support.

Meanwhile, a solid 50% of Americans remain “conservative” on what is a remarkably “patriarchal” (if irrelevant) onomastic holdover from the social arrangements constructed by feudal elites to streamline inheritance questions. I find that rather amusing. And telling about how society actually works.

 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

  2. Absolutely nothing should be government mandated. Nothing!

  3. Polish gays just move abroad and can easily get married there.
    It has lead to a big drop in candidates for Catholic priests.

    • Agree: mal
    • LOL: Wyatt, Escher
  4. The awful truth is that people’s views are largely determined by the quality of content their minds ingest (garbage in, garbage out). This is why propaganda works; it is disturbingly easy to brainwash the population.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Nodwink

    Absolutely correct.. That's why Hollywood is the most dangerous weapon their is. People are what they consume.

  5. Surname changes are not quite meaningless — they’re still symbolic of both male headship and about uniting to form a single team. Symbols can still carry some psychological weight.

    I think I’d marry my dog before I married a woman who insisted “I’m keeping my own name!” When it came to my wife, I don’t think the thought of keeping her last name even occurred to her as a thing a person might do.

    I did date a girl once that told me she was keeping her last name, and ironically she really, really wanted to marry me, but still considered that a non-negotiable. I was a lot more blue-pilled back then but still couldn’t see the point of marrying her — she didn’t want kids either. From the last update I got from a mutual acquaintance, life has not been kind to her since I dumped her.

    • Replies: @Caspar von Everec
    @Wency

    But was she hot?

  6. I like your observation. That is why I support the culture I like and refuse to watch shit like Marvel, sjw TV shows and sjw games. I buy right wing fiction and find right wing cultural projects like Junior Classics that Vox Day is producing.

    Elite is elite and nothing you can do about it. You either support the elite you like or accept what lords over you. Our side doesn’t always win but it wins enough or has enough battle field presence where life even in globohomo countries can be done in a way you prefer. It is certainly harder in US to have your kids avoid gay propaganda but none the less homeschooling is an option. Part of the reason we see big swings in oppinion when elites push for them is that they have economic and social levers to force the normies to play along. That is not a bad thing, because the goal is to seaze those levers for ourselves.

  7. In 1919, Woodrow Wilson famously said this: “Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.”

    I feel the same way about women with hyphenated names.

    • Replies: @gate666
    @songbird

    ivanka trump?

    Replies: @songbird

  8. I would be the last to deny that elites play a role in shaping public opinion, but I think its more complicated than that. Elites mostly exploit preexisting trends.

    I think mostly we are shaped by circumstance. In a poor and risky environment, you will cling to conservative values as to a life raft. If you feel safe and secure and prosperous, you will naturally open up and experiment more, and cling to your values less tightly. You will be more easy going and laissez-faire. You will be less fearful of angering the gods.

    If you want to make a liberal society into a conservative one, all you have to do is make conditions fearful and uncertain. Suddenly homosexuality will be an unnatural offense to the gods and won’t be tolerated, you will find. If you want to make a conservative society liberal, simply increase the feeling of safety and security, make it prosperous, and people will magically open up and stop clinging to life rafts.

    I think if elites tried to push acceptance of homosexuality in a society that was poor and full of risk they would be overthrown.

    Liberalism is the default of humanity when it feels safe, conservatism when humanity feel insecure. Of course, the new Woke brand of liberalism is not liberal at all, and is an attempt to grapple with feelings of insecurity. Thats why it’s so militant.

    As the Buddha recognized – most of our “values” and “truths” are attempts to create security in a world of flux. When Buddhism tells you to have no opinions or preferences, it simultaneously tries to create a feeling of cosmic security in you – because it knows we cling to values out of fear.

    Temperament, of course, plays a role, and cannot be altered. Then there is chance, fashion, fad, the spirit ofthe age.

    Elites can certainly shape outcomes, but they must work with the spirit of the age and find a way to exploit preexisting trends to their advantage, they cannot simply push what they want.

    They, too, must “go with the flow”, and attempt to push it slightly into their advantage.

    • Agree: Philip Owen
    • Replies: @SIMP simp
    @AaronB

    A good read if you don't already know this:
    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/04/a-thrivesurvive-theory-of-the-political-spectrum/

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @AaronB

    , @songbird
    @AaronB

    I wonder how much it is directly a function of gays attaining power.

    People often think of Hollywood pushing gay values, just as some sort of proxy for sexual liberation, or to destroy the family, etc. But what if the secret to that was simply that gays were more powerful within the movie industry, than other industries. That the people who make up it, by and large had characteristics (like lack of family values, lack of children, lack of Christianity) which made them less concerned with checking the power of gays, and that gays were, somehow, by personality or other characteristics drawn to the industry in numbers that allowed them to seize some amount of influence.

    The more gayness is tolerated, the more gays can meet in the open, join their resources and conspire. The more that they can attain high position and power. Time was when powerful gay men, at least had to have a "beard" as they call - a legal but fake wife. You can still find a few gays like Macron and Deval Patrick who have these "beards."

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @AaronB, @Indiana Jack

  9. 70% of Americans do not support homosexual “marriage “. This was proven when this joke was put to a democratic vote and lost time and again. It was imposed by the ruling class which releases polls showing how everyone agrees with whatever silliness they decide to impose. The polls are all fake, just tools of the elite. The Romans used similar antics to keep the plebeians out of power.

    • Replies: @Wency
    @Rich

    That sounds wrong to me. I live in a very conservative area in the Deep South, and I notice that even younger people (meaning younger than 40) who regard homosexuality as a sin still often say things like "Well I don't know that the government should be able to tell anyone they can or can't get married."

    But to be clear, the percentage of the population that thinks gay marriage is an important issue, that feels strongly about it being legal, is much less than 70%.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    , @GazaPlanet
    @Rich

    Pollsters and mass media figures are basically kikes spitting in your face.

    It is beyond belief that they are tolerated.

  10. @AaronB
    I would be the last to deny that elites play a role in shaping public opinion, but I think its more complicated than that. Elites mostly exploit preexisting trends.

    I think mostly we are shaped by circumstance. In a poor and risky environment, you will cling to conservative values as to a life raft. If you feel safe and secure and prosperous, you will naturally open up and experiment more, and cling to your values less tightly. You will be more easy going and laissez-faire. You will be less fearful of angering the gods.

    If you want to make a liberal society into a conservative one, all you have to do is make conditions fearful and uncertain. Suddenly homosexuality will be an unnatural offense to the gods and won't be tolerated, you will find. If you want to make a conservative society liberal, simply increase the feeling of safety and security, make it prosperous, and people will magically open up and stop clinging to life rafts.

    I think if elites tried to push acceptance of homosexuality in a society that was poor and full of risk they would be overthrown.

    Liberalism is the default of humanity when it feels safe, conservatism when humanity feel insecure. Of course, the new Woke brand of liberalism is not liberal at all, and is an attempt to grapple with feelings of insecurity. Thats why it's so militant.

    As the Buddha recognized - most of our "values" and "truths" are attempts to create security in a world of flux. When Buddhism tells you to have no opinions or preferences, it simultaneously tries to create a feeling of cosmic security in you - because it knows we cling to values out of fear.

    Temperament, of course, plays a role, and cannot be altered. Then there is chance, fashion, fad, the spirit ofthe age.

    Elites can certainly shape outcomes, but they must work with the spirit of the age and find a way to exploit preexisting trends to their advantage, they cannot simply push what they want.

    They, too, must "go with the flow", and attempt to push it slightly into their advantage.

    Replies: @SIMP simp, @songbird

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @SIMP simp

    AaronB really could benefit from Star Slate Codex in general, indeed.

    , @AaronB
    @SIMP simp

    Thanks.

    Survive/Thrive seems to be spot on. I'm gonna read the whole thing later but I think this may be the key to understanding huge amounts of human behavior, perhaps everything important.

    If you are preoccupied with survival, you will prefer one set of behaviors and attitudes. If you feel that - in some sense - your survival is assured, you will devote yourself to a whole different set of activities.

    Its the difference between people who work for the future and those who take pleasure in the moment. People ruled by anxiety, and people ruled by confidence in some sense, even metaphysical confidence.

    This is a major theme in Buddhism - Buddhism tries to give you a kind of cosmic confidence, or trust in the universe, that frees you from the survive paradigm and shifts you to the thrive paradigm.

    I have encountered this idea in a bunch of different places lately, and it even began to explain a lot of the behavior of significant others in my life whose behavior had been maddeningly puzzling.

    Replies: @BlackFlag

  11. As far as American “Conservatism” goes, it is nothing more than free markets and endless quagmires around the world. I have had a few conversations with some of these American Conservatives and I have never witnessed a people more dull and lacking in curiosity than them.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @4Dchessmaster

    USA is a vast country and not long time ago there were quite many Americans who supported Pat Buchanan and his Paleoconservative policies. Where those kind of conservatives are now?

    , @Not Raul
    @4Dchessmaster

    The US doesn’t have many real Conservatives or real Leftists. They have Thatcherite right Liberals, Blairite left Liberals, and not much else, especially if you’re looking at people over 30 who aren’t potheads.

  12. @SIMP simp
    @AaronB

    A good read if you don't already know this:
    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/04/a-thrivesurvive-theory-of-the-political-spectrum/

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @AaronB

    AaronB really could benefit from Star Slate Codex in general, indeed.

  13. @AaronB
    I would be the last to deny that elites play a role in shaping public opinion, but I think its more complicated than that. Elites mostly exploit preexisting trends.

    I think mostly we are shaped by circumstance. In a poor and risky environment, you will cling to conservative values as to a life raft. If you feel safe and secure and prosperous, you will naturally open up and experiment more, and cling to your values less tightly. You will be more easy going and laissez-faire. You will be less fearful of angering the gods.

    If you want to make a liberal society into a conservative one, all you have to do is make conditions fearful and uncertain. Suddenly homosexuality will be an unnatural offense to the gods and won't be tolerated, you will find. If you want to make a conservative society liberal, simply increase the feeling of safety and security, make it prosperous, and people will magically open up and stop clinging to life rafts.

    I think if elites tried to push acceptance of homosexuality in a society that was poor and full of risk they would be overthrown.

    Liberalism is the default of humanity when it feels safe, conservatism when humanity feel insecure. Of course, the new Woke brand of liberalism is not liberal at all, and is an attempt to grapple with feelings of insecurity. Thats why it's so militant.

    As the Buddha recognized - most of our "values" and "truths" are attempts to create security in a world of flux. When Buddhism tells you to have no opinions or preferences, it simultaneously tries to create a feeling of cosmic security in you - because it knows we cling to values out of fear.

    Temperament, of course, plays a role, and cannot be altered. Then there is chance, fashion, fad, the spirit ofthe age.

    Elites can certainly shape outcomes, but they must work with the spirit of the age and find a way to exploit preexisting trends to their advantage, they cannot simply push what they want.

    They, too, must "go with the flow", and attempt to push it slightly into their advantage.

    Replies: @SIMP simp, @songbird

    I wonder how much it is directly a function of gays attaining power.

    People often think of Hollywood pushing gay values, just as some sort of proxy for sexual liberation, or to destroy the family, etc. But what if the secret to that was simply that gays were more powerful within the movie industry, than other industries. That the people who make up it, by and large had characteristics (like lack of family values, lack of children, lack of Christianity) which made them less concerned with checking the power of gays, and that gays were, somehow, by personality or other characteristics drawn to the industry in numbers that allowed them to seize some amount of influence.

    The more gayness is tolerated, the more gays can meet in the open, join their resources and conspire. The more that they can attain high position and power. Time was when powerful gay men, at least had to have a “beard” as they call – a legal but fake wife. You can still find a few gays like Macron and Deval Patrick who have these “beards.”

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @songbird

    To some extent, gay mafias exist everywhere but there seems to be a point where they can gain critical mass and begin to overwhelm societies. Of various conspiracy theories, gay mafia is the one I've most observed and find to be very real(this is quite backed by history as well).

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @AaronB
    @songbird

    I wouldn't rule that out. But why would the population be so ok with it?

    Studies have shown that even under ideal conditions where you completely control the environment, brainwashing does not work.

    Propaganda only works when it exploits preexisting trends. It can amplify or reduce them, but it cannot create them.

    While elite promotion of a social trend is an important factor, the origin of a social phenomenon usually lie in forces greater than the elites, who themselves are caught up in it. Much of our behavior is opportunistic- we exploit trends to our favor. If you oppose a trend with a lot of force behind it, you will fail.

    A lot of our preferences are second order effects. For instance, rejection of the Other will be amplified in times of uncertainty, and reduced in times of safety. It is a second order effect of our instinct for safety.

    I imagine our attitude to homosexuality is simar. In times of danger, anything abnormal seems threatening.

    Replies: @songbird, @Beckow

    , @Indiana Jack
    @songbird

    Part of this may also be simply that, as a percentage of the population, there are more gays today than there were in the past and thus there are more gay people around to push an agenda or to gain power within a certain industry. If one accepts Gregory Cochran's gay germ theory, this makes sense - the world is more highly urbanized today than at any previous time in history, and greater population densities provide an environment in which germs can spread.

    Responses to surveys are of course notoriously unreliable regarding sensitive issues like a person's sexual inclinations. But it is worth noting that the number of people self-identifying as gay has increased in recent decades, and the incidence of homosexuality is much higher in cities than in small towns or rural areas. This seems to be true of people born and raised in cities vs rural areas, so it is not just a case of gay people moving to cities.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  14. @songbird
    @AaronB

    I wonder how much it is directly a function of gays attaining power.

    People often think of Hollywood pushing gay values, just as some sort of proxy for sexual liberation, or to destroy the family, etc. But what if the secret to that was simply that gays were more powerful within the movie industry, than other industries. That the people who make up it, by and large had characteristics (like lack of family values, lack of children, lack of Christianity) which made them less concerned with checking the power of gays, and that gays were, somehow, by personality or other characteristics drawn to the industry in numbers that allowed them to seize some amount of influence.

    The more gayness is tolerated, the more gays can meet in the open, join their resources and conspire. The more that they can attain high position and power. Time was when powerful gay men, at least had to have a "beard" as they call - a legal but fake wife. You can still find a few gays like Macron and Deval Patrick who have these "beards."

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @AaronB, @Indiana Jack

    To some extent, gay mafias exist everywhere but there seems to be a point where they can gain critical mass and begin to overwhelm societies. Of various conspiracy theories, gay mafia is the one I’ve most observed and find to be very real(this is quite backed by history as well).

    • Agree: songbird, RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Daniel Chieh


    I’ve most observed and find to be very real(this is quite backed by history as well).
     
    Outside of the Occident too?

    Eunuchs were their own kind of mafia, but still it cant be said that they were gay.

    Replies: @songbird, @Daniel Chieh

  15. @songbird
    @AaronB

    I wonder how much it is directly a function of gays attaining power.

    People often think of Hollywood pushing gay values, just as some sort of proxy for sexual liberation, or to destroy the family, etc. But what if the secret to that was simply that gays were more powerful within the movie industry, than other industries. That the people who make up it, by and large had characteristics (like lack of family values, lack of children, lack of Christianity) which made them less concerned with checking the power of gays, and that gays were, somehow, by personality or other characteristics drawn to the industry in numbers that allowed them to seize some amount of influence.

    The more gayness is tolerated, the more gays can meet in the open, join their resources and conspire. The more that they can attain high position and power. Time was when powerful gay men, at least had to have a "beard" as they call - a legal but fake wife. You can still find a few gays like Macron and Deval Patrick who have these "beards."

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @AaronB, @Indiana Jack

    I wouldn’t rule that out. But why would the population be so ok with it?

    Studies have shown that even under ideal conditions where you completely control the environment, brainwashing does not work.

    Propaganda only works when it exploits preexisting trends. It can amplify or reduce them, but it cannot create them.

    While elite promotion of a social trend is an important factor, the origin of a social phenomenon usually lie in forces greater than the elites, who themselves are caught up in it. Much of our behavior is opportunistic- we exploit trends to our favor. If you oppose a trend with a lot of force behind it, you will fail.

    A lot of our preferences are second order effects. For instance, rejection of the Other will be amplified in times of uncertainty, and reduced in times of safety. It is a second order effect of our instinct for safety.

    I imagine our attitude to homosexuality is simar. In times of danger, anything abnormal seems threatening.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AaronB


    But why would the population be so ok with it?
     
    Partly, I think it is deference to authority. Imagine the Milgram experiment, if the people turning the knob were told "we will sue you, or get you fired from your job, if you don't turn the knob." This kind of lawfare doesn't exist in less-organized societies.

    Of course, many people probably genuinely don't care, but are just absorbing elite values passively.

    Then there's been a lot of demographic changes. Gays have been drawn into cities, as families have been pushed out. (IMO, people with children might be considered to be a check on gays' behavior). TFR is lower than ever, so there are less children. Some groups with slightly higher TFR view gays as allies in a sense, part of the effort to promote diversity and thus their own interests.

    Replies: @Charlotte, @AaronB

    , @Beckow
    @AaronB


    ...why would the population be so ok with it?
     
    The population is not ok with a lot of things that happen. It has to do with general Western misunderstanding of what 'democracy' means - it is not about the process, but about results. If the results are not what majority wants, then you don't have a democracy no matter how many mannequins you change or how much entertainment the process provides.

    Propaganda only works when it exploits preexisting trends.
     
    I generally agree, but the recognition of what the 'trends' are can get dicey. Modern 'woke' liberals (let's keep the label) believe that liberalising trends are in their favour, that any insecurity can be fixed with more liberalism. We all know liberals who will agree that the labor market is broken and that inequality is growing. But their solution is to 'legalise' all potential workers around the world, give them equality and rights - liberals claim that then all will be all ok. Right, they are simply numerically challenged. But try to tell them that the trend they pursue is nonsense on its face. That's where propaganda works in pushing a non-sensical trend that would collapse without it.

    Replies: @AaronB

  16. @SIMP simp
    @AaronB

    A good read if you don't already know this:
    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/04/a-thrivesurvive-theory-of-the-political-spectrum/

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @AaronB

    Thanks.

    Survive/Thrive seems to be spot on. I’m gonna read the whole thing later but I think this may be the key to understanding huge amounts of human behavior, perhaps everything important.

    If you are preoccupied with survival, you will prefer one set of behaviors and attitudes. If you feel that – in some sense – your survival is assured, you will devote yourself to a whole different set of activities.

    Its the difference between people who work for the future and those who take pleasure in the moment. People ruled by anxiety, and people ruled by confidence in some sense, even metaphysical confidence.

    This is a major theme in Buddhism – Buddhism tries to give you a kind of cosmic confidence, or trust in the universe, that frees you from the survive paradigm and shifts you to the thrive paradigm.

    I have encountered this idea in a bunch of different places lately, and it even began to explain a lot of the behavior of significant others in my life whose behavior had been maddeningly puzzling.

    • Replies: @BlackFlag
    @AaronB

    Americans have become more favorable to gay marriage during a time when living standards have declined and social tension has increased. Russians have become less supportive during a time when I think (90s to 2010s) their living standards have risen and social tensions have decreased. How does your theory explain that?

    Replies: @AaronB

  17. @Rich
    70% of Americans do not support homosexual "marriage ". This was proven when this joke was put to a democratic vote and lost time and again. It was imposed by the ruling class which releases polls showing how everyone agrees with whatever silliness they decide to impose. The polls are all fake, just tools of the elite. The Romans used similar antics to keep the plebeians out of power.

    Replies: @Wency, @GazaPlanet

    That sounds wrong to me. I live in a very conservative area in the Deep South, and I notice that even younger people (meaning younger than 40) who regard homosexuality as a sin still often say things like “Well I don’t know that the government should be able to tell anyone they can or can’t get married.”

    But to be clear, the percentage of the population that thinks gay marriage is an important issue, that feels strongly about it being legal, is much less than 70%.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Wency

    I guess those young people aren't reading "the good book". The Apostle Simon Peter called Lot "righteous" because he was vexed every day by the "values" in Sodom and Gomorrah

  18. Meanwhile, a solid 50% of Americans remain “conservative” on what is a remarkably “patriarchal” (if irrelevant) onomastic holdover from the social arrangements constructed by feudal elites to streamline inheritance questions. I find that rather amusing. And telling about how society actually works.

    Feudalism did nothing wrong!

    Ironically, while the elites brainwash the peons with identity politics that will produce suboptimal outcomes for the peons in the long run, the elites prefer to stay successful and feudal themselves. Wealthier people manage their family assets better, their marriages are stronger, and they take better care of their genetic lineage (wealthy powerful females go after wealthy powerful males and stick with them, so divorce rate is lower which helps both the assets and the spawn).

    Meanwhile, peons get to fight over transgender bathrooms while their divorce rates skyrocket, and their spawn ends up destitute and childless. Its almost like its on purpose and there’s a class/genetic war going on. Probably nothing though.

    Anyway, we could use more feudalism in our political economy. Feudalism is how humans tracked their origins before we knew about genetics and evolution. Worthwhile stuff.

  19. @Wency
    Surname changes are not quite meaningless -- they're still symbolic of both male headship and about uniting to form a single team. Symbols can still carry some psychological weight.

    I think I'd marry my dog before I married a woman who insisted "I'm keeping my own name!" When it came to my wife, I don't think the thought of keeping her last name even occurred to her as a thing a person might do.

    I did date a girl once that told me she was keeping her last name, and ironically she really, really wanted to marry me, but still considered that a non-negotiable. I was a lot more blue-pilled back then but still couldn't see the point of marrying her -- she didn't want kids either. From the last update I got from a mutual acquaintance, life has not been kind to her since I dumped her.

    Replies: @Caspar von Everec

    But was she hot?

    • LOL: Bill
  20. @4Dchessmaster
    As far as American "Conservatism" goes, it is nothing more than free markets and endless quagmires around the world. I have had a few conversations with some of these American Conservatives and I have never witnessed a people more dull and lacking in curiosity than them.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Not Raul

    USA is a vast country and not long time ago there were quite many Americans who supported Pat Buchanan and his Paleoconservative policies. Where those kind of conservatives are now?

  21. @Daniel Chieh
    @songbird

    To some extent, gay mafias exist everywhere but there seems to be a point where they can gain critical mass and begin to overwhelm societies. Of various conspiracy theories, gay mafia is the one I've most observed and find to be very real(this is quite backed by history as well).

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    I’ve most observed and find to be very real(this is quite backed by history as well).

    Outside of the Occident too?

    Eunuchs were their own kind of mafia, but still it cant be said that they were gay.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AltanBakshi


    Eunuchs were their own kind of mafia, but still it cant be said that they were gay.
     
    Depends how they got there. The Skoptsy were probably gayer than average. In a certain sense, they might be considered to have been transsexuals.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @AltanBakshi

    I guess I haven't seen that at all in Orient, have to admit. Thailand?

  22. @AaronB
    @songbird

    I wouldn't rule that out. But why would the population be so ok with it?

    Studies have shown that even under ideal conditions where you completely control the environment, brainwashing does not work.

    Propaganda only works when it exploits preexisting trends. It can amplify or reduce them, but it cannot create them.

    While elite promotion of a social trend is an important factor, the origin of a social phenomenon usually lie in forces greater than the elites, who themselves are caught up in it. Much of our behavior is opportunistic- we exploit trends to our favor. If you oppose a trend with a lot of force behind it, you will fail.

    A lot of our preferences are second order effects. For instance, rejection of the Other will be amplified in times of uncertainty, and reduced in times of safety. It is a second order effect of our instinct for safety.

    I imagine our attitude to homosexuality is simar. In times of danger, anything abnormal seems threatening.

    Replies: @songbird, @Beckow

    But why would the population be so ok with it?

    Partly, I think it is deference to authority. Imagine the Milgram experiment, if the people turning the knob were told “we will sue you, or get you fired from your job, if you don’t turn the knob.” This kind of lawfare doesn’t exist in less-organized societies.

    Of course, many people probably genuinely don’t care, but are just absorbing elite values passively.

    Then there’s been a lot of demographic changes. Gays have been drawn into cities, as families have been pushed out. (IMO, people with children might be considered to be a check on gays’ behavior). TFR is lower than ever, so there are less children. Some groups with slightly higher TFR view gays as allies in a sense, part of the effort to promote diversity and thus their own interests.

    • Replies: @Charlotte
    @songbird

    Marriage itself underwent a redefinition in the last century. It ceased to be understood as an institution for producing and raising the next generation and became a vehicle of personal fulfillment instead. Have kids or not, get married or not, stay married or not, what matters is your personal happiness. Gay marriage fits right in with that view of marriage.

    Back before I got redpilled, I was instinctively bothered by gay marriage, but I didn’t really object to it because I couldn’t think of a good, solid reason to do so. I was too in thrall to the marriage-as-personal-fulfillment model I’d learned.

    I’ve never seen this addressed, but I wonder if the 20th century demographic change toward paid work and away from from farming and small businesses/trades accelerated the changing view of marriage by diminishing the importance of inheritance. If you’ve worked the family farm/business all your life, you care who’ll succeed you. If you can’t pass on your job or even your trade, having an heir may matter less, and that may lessen the perceived value of a traditional, child-centered marriage.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Coconuts, @AaronB

    , @AaronB
    @songbird

    Deference to authority is a factor. But I dont think it is the whole story.

    I don't believe authority can shape us to their will. We are not infinitely malleable.

    Our explanations may be mutually supporting. The ground was made fertile by an increase in safety making people more open, then authority adding the finishing touches.

    But I would say authority figures are themselves limited in what they can successfully push, and just work with the reality they have.

  23. @AltanBakshi
    @Daniel Chieh


    I’ve most observed and find to be very real(this is quite backed by history as well).
     
    Outside of the Occident too?

    Eunuchs were their own kind of mafia, but still it cant be said that they were gay.

    Replies: @songbird, @Daniel Chieh

    Eunuchs were their own kind of mafia, but still it cant be said that they were gay.

    Depends how they got there. The Skoptsy were probably gayer than average. In a certain sense, they might be considered to have been transsexuals.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @songbird

    From a traditional Buddhist point of view the eunuchs are their own gender and different from the transsexuals/pandakas, who suffer from blurred or confused sex. In other words they are beings who are not anymore male, but something else.

    Yes Buddhism has historically recognized four genders, male, female, pandaka, or a person who has confused sexuality, and a eunuch, a person without gender or sex.
    Male and female sexes are good, rest are deviations and are result of sinning and karmic misdeeds. Only heterosexual males are seen as men and are admitted to the monkhood, at least so it has been traditionally.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Agathoklis

  24. @songbird
    @AltanBakshi


    Eunuchs were their own kind of mafia, but still it cant be said that they were gay.
     
    Depends how they got there. The Skoptsy were probably gayer than average. In a certain sense, they might be considered to have been transsexuals.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    From a traditional Buddhist point of view the eunuchs are their own gender and different from the transsexuals/pandakas, who suffer from blurred or confused sex. In other words they are beings who are not anymore male, but something else.

    Yes Buddhism has historically recognized four genders, male, female, pandaka, or a person who has confused sexuality, and a eunuch, a person without gender or sex.
    Male and female sexes are good, rest are deviations and are result of sinning and karmic misdeeds. Only heterosexual males are seen as men and are admitted to the monkhood, at least so it has been traditionally.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @AltanBakshi

    Can't deny that in China, eunuchs became a significant political force very much in coordination with other eunuchs.

    , @Agathoklis
    @AltanBakshi

    I find this constant reference to eastern religions very tedious. It is a complete dead end for a European man.

    Replies: @Ano4, @AltanBakshi

  25. @AltanBakshi
    @Daniel Chieh


    I’ve most observed and find to be very real(this is quite backed by history as well).
     
    Outside of the Occident too?

    Eunuchs were their own kind of mafia, but still it cant be said that they were gay.

    Replies: @songbird, @Daniel Chieh

    I guess I haven’t seen that at all in Orient, have to admit. Thailand?

  26. @AltanBakshi
    @songbird

    From a traditional Buddhist point of view the eunuchs are their own gender and different from the transsexuals/pandakas, who suffer from blurred or confused sex. In other words they are beings who are not anymore male, but something else.

    Yes Buddhism has historically recognized four genders, male, female, pandaka, or a person who has confused sexuality, and a eunuch, a person without gender or sex.
    Male and female sexes are good, rest are deviations and are result of sinning and karmic misdeeds. Only heterosexual males are seen as men and are admitted to the monkhood, at least so it has been traditionally.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Agathoklis

    Can’t deny that in China, eunuchs became a significant political force very much in coordination with other eunuchs.

  27. @AaronB
    @songbird

    I wouldn't rule that out. But why would the population be so ok with it?

    Studies have shown that even under ideal conditions where you completely control the environment, brainwashing does not work.

    Propaganda only works when it exploits preexisting trends. It can amplify or reduce them, but it cannot create them.

    While elite promotion of a social trend is an important factor, the origin of a social phenomenon usually lie in forces greater than the elites, who themselves are caught up in it. Much of our behavior is opportunistic- we exploit trends to our favor. If you oppose a trend with a lot of force behind it, you will fail.

    A lot of our preferences are second order effects. For instance, rejection of the Other will be amplified in times of uncertainty, and reduced in times of safety. It is a second order effect of our instinct for safety.

    I imagine our attitude to homosexuality is simar. In times of danger, anything abnormal seems threatening.

    Replies: @songbird, @Beckow

    …why would the population be so ok with it?

    The population is not ok with a lot of things that happen. It has to do with general Western misunderstanding of what ‘democracy‘ means – it is not about the process, but about results. If the results are not what majority wants, then you don’t have a democracy no matter how many mannequins you change or how much entertainment the process provides.

    Propaganda only works when it exploits preexisting trends.

    I generally agree, but the recognition of what the ‘trends‘ are can get dicey. Modern ‘woke’ liberals (let’s keep the label) believe that liberalising trends are in their favour, that any insecurity can be fixed with more liberalism. We all know liberals who will agree that the labor market is broken and that inequality is growing. But their solution is to ‘legalise‘ all potential workers around the world, give them equality and rights – liberals claim that then all will be all ok. Right, they are simply numerically challenged. But try to tell them that the trend they pursue is nonsense on its face. That’s where propaganda works in pushing a non-sensical trend that would collapse without it.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @AaronB
    @Beckow

    Yes, but I think Anatoly quoted that 70% of Americans support gay marriage or something like that.

    So we have to explain that. Some think the elites can simply push what they want (that's dangerously close to blank slatism and I'm surprised to see that on an HBD blog).

    While I accept elite propaganda as an important factor I think its but one of many - and not the most important.


    That’s where propaganda works in pushing a non-sensical trend that would collapse without it.
     
    I think saying it would collapse without elites pushing it is too strong. But I agree elites are important in making trends survive.

    Just, the soil must be fertile. Perhaps the elites are the fertilizing agents. But with the wrong soil you can do nothing.

    I prefer to see yours and my explanation as compatible and not contradictory. We're both getting at something true.

    Replies: @Beckow

  28. @songbird
    @AaronB

    I wonder how much it is directly a function of gays attaining power.

    People often think of Hollywood pushing gay values, just as some sort of proxy for sexual liberation, or to destroy the family, etc. But what if the secret to that was simply that gays were more powerful within the movie industry, than other industries. That the people who make up it, by and large had characteristics (like lack of family values, lack of children, lack of Christianity) which made them less concerned with checking the power of gays, and that gays were, somehow, by personality or other characteristics drawn to the industry in numbers that allowed them to seize some amount of influence.

    The more gayness is tolerated, the more gays can meet in the open, join their resources and conspire. The more that they can attain high position and power. Time was when powerful gay men, at least had to have a "beard" as they call - a legal but fake wife. You can still find a few gays like Macron and Deval Patrick who have these "beards."

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @AaronB, @Indiana Jack

    Part of this may also be simply that, as a percentage of the population, there are more gays today than there were in the past and thus there are more gay people around to push an agenda or to gain power within a certain industry. If one accepts Gregory Cochran’s gay germ theory, this makes sense – the world is more highly urbanized today than at any previous time in history, and greater population densities provide an environment in which germs can spread.

    Responses to surveys are of course notoriously unreliable regarding sensitive issues like a person’s sexual inclinations. But it is worth noting that the number of people self-identifying as gay has increased in recent decades, and the incidence of homosexuality is much higher in cities than in small towns or rural areas. This seems to be true of people born and raised in cities vs rural areas, so it is not just a case of gay people moving to cities.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Indiana Jack


    Part of this may also be simply that, as a percentage of the population, there are more gays today than there were in the past and thus there are more gay people around to push an agenda or to gain power within a certain industry. If one accepts Gregory Cochran’s gay germ theory, this makes sense – the world is more highly urbanized today than at any previous time in history, and greater population densities provide an environment in which germs can spread.
     
    Possibly. Or if sexuality is to a considerable extent cultural once you get homosexuals congregating in cities they reach a critical mass and are able to spread their homosexual culture.

    And cities have a lot more cultural soft power than rural communities. The culture of the urbanised sector of the population eventually becomes the culture of the whole society.

    Many if not most of the cultural changes of the past century or so are probably just the inevitable result of urbanisation, and the imposition of urban culture on everybody else.
  29. The results don’t particularly surprise me, support for feminism seems very strong amongst the trad con right even if most of them are anti-gay marriage.

    Often they virtue signal feminist politics to contrast themselves with Muslims, who are seen as extremely misogynistic.

  30. It’s hilarious that the Fidesz MEP who apparently drafted the new Hungarian constitution including the “marriage is between a man and a woman” line was arrested at a gay orgy in Brussels for violating the lock down rules a few days ago.

    Apparently he was vocally anti-gay in his public life, yet is clearly a raving homosexual. The irony is I bet he would deny being gay and probably doesn’t even perceive himself as a homosexual.

    Makes one wonder how commonplace that sort of thing is, someone who clearly engages in homosexual activity but has so much cognitive dissonance that they still consider themselves straight?

    • Replies: @Shortsword
    @Europe Europa

    I wonder, has he done this before? Is it possible stay secretly gay as an EU representative while partaking in large gay orgies in Brussels?

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Europe Europa

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1334069633004032000

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Europe Europa

    Alright, I know hardly anyone will find this convincing, but- why not? Why not be an orgiastic homosexual & be against gay marriage simultaneously?

    This affair looks as a pinnacle of hypocrisy, but to me it is- at least in theory- completely acceptable. If I was in this guy's shoes, I would say: marriage is the cell of the society & any society can flourish only with heterosexual marriage. Homo male sexuality is wild & cannot be contained within such an arrangement.

    In short: gay marriage can't work because gay sex drive will destroy it inevitably. Only hetero marriage is functional- and he is a shining example of this thesis. It is perfectly natural & sincere to be against gay marriage, because the gays themselves know, better than anyone else- it is nothing more than a farce.

    Replies: @Agathoklis

    , @reiner Tor
    @Europe Europa


    he was vocally anti-gay in his public life
     
    That’s an exaggeration, as he never said anything about gays as such. He opposed gay marriage. I fail to see why a gay person couldn’t be opposed to the institution of gay marriage. There are heterosexuals opposed to any kind of marriage, after all.
  31. @Europe Europa
    It's hilarious that the Fidesz MEP who apparently drafted the new Hungarian constitution including the "marriage is between a man and a woman" line was arrested at a gay orgy in Brussels for violating the lock down rules a few days ago.

    Apparently he was vocally anti-gay in his public life, yet is clearly a raving homosexual. The irony is I bet he would deny being gay and probably doesn't even perceive himself as a homosexual.

    Makes one wonder how commonplace that sort of thing is, someone who clearly engages in homosexual activity but has so much cognitive dissonance that they still consider themselves straight?

    Replies: @Shortsword, @Anatoly Karlin, @Bardon Kaldian, @reiner Tor

    I wonder, has he done this before? Is it possible stay secretly gay as an EU representative while partaking in large gay orgies in Brussels?

  32. @Europe Europa
    It's hilarious that the Fidesz MEP who apparently drafted the new Hungarian constitution including the "marriage is between a man and a woman" line was arrested at a gay orgy in Brussels for violating the lock down rules a few days ago.

    Apparently he was vocally anti-gay in his public life, yet is clearly a raving homosexual. The irony is I bet he would deny being gay and probably doesn't even perceive himself as a homosexual.

    Makes one wonder how commonplace that sort of thing is, someone who clearly engages in homosexual activity but has so much cognitive dissonance that they still consider themselves straight?

    Replies: @Shortsword, @Anatoly Karlin, @Bardon Kaldian, @reiner Tor

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I love the fact that he has a thick beard.

    Replies: @Ano4

  33. @Europe Europa
    It's hilarious that the Fidesz MEP who apparently drafted the new Hungarian constitution including the "marriage is between a man and a woman" line was arrested at a gay orgy in Brussels for violating the lock down rules a few days ago.

    Apparently he was vocally anti-gay in his public life, yet is clearly a raving homosexual. The irony is I bet he would deny being gay and probably doesn't even perceive himself as a homosexual.

    Makes one wonder how commonplace that sort of thing is, someone who clearly engages in homosexual activity but has so much cognitive dissonance that they still consider themselves straight?

    Replies: @Shortsword, @Anatoly Karlin, @Bardon Kaldian, @reiner Tor

    Alright, I know hardly anyone will find this convincing, but- why not? Why not be an orgiastic homosexual & be against gay marriage simultaneously?

    This affair looks as a pinnacle of hypocrisy, but to me it is- at least in theory- completely acceptable. If I was in this guy’s shoes, I would say: marriage is the cell of the society & any society can flourish only with heterosexual marriage. Homo male sexuality is wild & cannot be contained within such an arrangement.

    In short: gay marriage can’t work because gay sex drive will destroy it inevitably. Only hetero marriage is functional- and he is a shining example of this thesis. It is perfectly natural & sincere to be against gay marriage, because the gays themselves know, better than anyone else- it is nothing more than a farce.

    • Replies: @Agathoklis
    @Bardon Kaldian

    If I can put myself in a gay man's shoes, I could never understand their need to have gay marriage accepted. As a skirt chasing young man, for me one of the things that made the gay life attractive was the lack of obligations. They could just pursue sex throughout their whole lives. Obviously, they pursued wrong kind. However, as a straight man, there comes a time when you must begin to build an empire, create a family and think about their future and the world they may live in. Sensible European men just have that hard wired in them. Once you make that decision you suddenly become a family man and all that entails. Because gay men cannot sire children like we do, then why would they feel the need to have a steady long term relationship and domesticate themselves. They have negated the only thing that made their life attractive.

    There is a gay couple in my neighbourhood. There is nothing more tragic than seeing a gay couple gardening, hanging the clothes on the line or unloading the car with shopping.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Bardon Kaldian

  34. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Europe Europa

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1334069633004032000

    Replies: @songbird

    I love the fact that he has a thick beard.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @songbird

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/09/3c/48/093c48f13d6138dcbd5c5c1e9d11c287.jpg

  35. @songbird
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I love the fact that he has a thick beard.

    Replies: @Ano4

    • LOL: songbird
  36. @AltanBakshi
    @songbird

    From a traditional Buddhist point of view the eunuchs are their own gender and different from the transsexuals/pandakas, who suffer from blurred or confused sex. In other words they are beings who are not anymore male, but something else.

    Yes Buddhism has historically recognized four genders, male, female, pandaka, or a person who has confused sexuality, and a eunuch, a person without gender or sex.
    Male and female sexes are good, rest are deviations and are result of sinning and karmic misdeeds. Only heterosexual males are seen as men and are admitted to the monkhood, at least so it has been traditionally.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Agathoklis

    I find this constant reference to eastern religions very tedious. It is a complete dead end for a European man.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Agathoklis


    I find this constant reference to eastern religions very tedious. It is a complete dead end for a European man.
     
    We should only refer to the Classical Greek Civilization. That is the only true way forward for the European man!

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2007/nov/10/history.society



    https://cdn1.neoskosmos.com/uploads/sites/2/2020/02/SEDUCTION.jpg
    , @AltanBakshi
    @Agathoklis

    If moderns would start emulating ancient Hellenic sexuality - that would be a complete dead end for a European man.


    Also Buddha was an Aryan and revered mostly same gods as ancient Romans, Hellenes, Slavs and Germanic.

    Indra, the guardian of our religion, a god of thunder and heavens is a same god as Thor, Perun, Zeus and Iuppiter, he has his lighting weapon and his arch enemy is the mighty serpent. For some reason he is most similar to Thor? There is Dyaus Pita(cognate of Iuppiter and Zeus), the god of sky, but he is quite minor in Buddhism. Surya the sun, who is an ancestor of the Buddha, is a direct equivalent of Hellenic Helios or Roman Sol, he even rides a chariot, just like his western forms. Kama god of desire has wings and carries a bow, just like Eros, we see him as an enemy of Buddhism. These are just few examples among many. For Hindus these gods are secondary or forgotten, they now worship gods who were invented at a later period or who have their origins in the native traditions of the subcontinent.
    But we in Buddhadharma still hold ancient gods dear and near!

    Come home western man! We literally have Hercules/Herakles as a guardian of Buddha. Yes according the Buddhism there is a divine realm and divine beings too can change, so Herakles has accepted Buddhas teachings and now he lives on as a guardian of Buddha, we literally worship him, he is very important for us, so it can be asked who is more western?

    https://classicalstudies.org/annual-meeting/150/abstract/heraklesvajrapani-companion-buddha

    https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1662/26342195961_094d1e85f1_b.jpg

    https://preview.redd.it/jcd2242goe231.jpg?width=401&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f9ccf99467a0679979a607811fdc2b6849b42d3

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/TheBuddhaAndVajrapaniGandhara2ndCentury.jpg

    Replies: @Ano4

  37. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Europe Europa

    Alright, I know hardly anyone will find this convincing, but- why not? Why not be an orgiastic homosexual & be against gay marriage simultaneously?

    This affair looks as a pinnacle of hypocrisy, but to me it is- at least in theory- completely acceptable. If I was in this guy's shoes, I would say: marriage is the cell of the society & any society can flourish only with heterosexual marriage. Homo male sexuality is wild & cannot be contained within such an arrangement.

    In short: gay marriage can't work because gay sex drive will destroy it inevitably. Only hetero marriage is functional- and he is a shining example of this thesis. It is perfectly natural & sincere to be against gay marriage, because the gays themselves know, better than anyone else- it is nothing more than a farce.

    Replies: @Agathoklis

    If I can put myself in a gay man’s shoes, I could never understand their need to have gay marriage accepted. As a skirt chasing young man, for me one of the things that made the gay life attractive was the lack of obligations. They could just pursue sex throughout their whole lives. Obviously, they pursued wrong kind. However, as a straight man, there comes a time when you must begin to build an empire, create a family and think about their future and the world they may live in. Sensible European men just have that hard wired in them. Once you make that decision you suddenly become a family man and all that entails. Because gay men cannot sire children like we do, then why would they feel the need to have a steady long term relationship and domesticate themselves. They have negated the only thing that made their life attractive.

    There is a gay couple in my neighbourhood. There is nothing more tragic than seeing a gay couple gardening, hanging the clothes on the line or unloading the car with shopping.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Agathoklis


    Because gay men cannot sire children like we do, then why would they feel the need to have a steady long term relationship and domesticate themselves.
     
    Perhaps because they love each other and cannot imagine being separated?

    Because they care for each other's well being?

    My wife has a gay couple friends who have had a stable relationship for more than 35 years. One of them died from COVID-19 this summer. These two guys were way more attached to each other than the majority of heterosexual couples I know. The surviving one will probably not last for long.

    Human emotions are not something rational. I am sure glad I am straight, married and having a stable relationship with kids, dogs, cats etc. But people do not have to see the world in the same way as I do.

    I feel disgusted by the Gay Pride exhibitionism and militancy, but if they live their life quietly on their own and are happy that way, then who am I to judge them and why should I care?

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Kent Nationalist, @Bardon Kaldian

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Agathoklis

    Pretty much my thoughts. In my view, putting aside real problems that can beset anyone (ill health, age- related weaknesses, financial & social troubles,..)- gay life, when they are healthy & young, seems to me much freer than ours.

    "Homo marriage" may be for lesbians, but for gay men- it's a joke.


    Obviously, they pursued wrong kind.....They have negated the only thing that made their life attractive.
     
    With this I don't agree. For me, their physical-sexual life is disgusting & makes me vomit. But, that's my perspective. From their point of view- it is great, they enjoy it. And they are free, if potent, to build empires, literally, from Alexander (who was, by all accounts, a bisexual) to Cecil Rhodes, who preferred boys.
  38. @Agathoklis
    @AltanBakshi

    I find this constant reference to eastern religions very tedious. It is a complete dead end for a European man.

    Replies: @Ano4, @AltanBakshi

    I find this constant reference to eastern religions very tedious. It is a complete dead end for a European man.

    We should only refer to the Classical Greek Civilization. That is the only true way forward for the European man!

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2007/nov/10/history.society

    [MORE]

  39. The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little. Paul may even be read as allowing women to divorce cruel husbands, although not to remarry and Christian men other than priests to have multiple wives. These rules would cause much more outrage in modern society than gay marriage. Modern marriage is about transfer of property, including children and an element of guardianship over the spouse when said spouse is incapacitated. The church lent its authority but it is not fundamentally an issue of Christian morality. Sex as a whole is suspect in the New Testament.

    That said, I campaigned for Civil Partnerships for single sex couples. I remain opposed to single sex adoption of children and ‘marriage’. Marriage to me is bringing extra security to management of family relations. It’s not just the law it’s your own promise to yourself, wife, future children and community.

    It should be observed that many children in Russia are brought up by a single sex couple of mother and grandmother.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Philip Owen


    The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little.
     
    In all likelihood early Christians just continued marital traditions of second temple Judaism.

    Later when there were more gentile converts, they just continued Roman customs regarding the marriage, except that they didnt sacrifice to the Pagan gods.

    https://books.google.fi/books?id=awAeGS_mnokC&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=In+general,+Christians+followed+the+traditional+nuptial+rites+of+the+province+in+which+they+lived,+except+that+they+rejected+any%C2%A0.&source=bl&ots=d2fxZ7gd9f&sig=ACfU3U3tGv1WWqpfAWstvNqWo9Hbn74D6Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjT3tvt-LPtAhXR-yoKHYtcAxkQ6AEwAHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=In%20general%2C%20Christians%20followed%20the%20traditional%20nuptial%20rites%20of%20the%20province%20in%20which%20they%20lived%2C%20except%20that%20they%20rejected%20any%C2%A0.&f=false
    , @Kent Nationalist
    @Philip Owen

    They don't say much about bestiality or pederasty either. Some things you can know by reason and don't require revelation.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    , @showmethereal
    @Philip Owen

    "The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little. "

    He only came to correct teaching... He didn't come bringing a new religion. So yeah there were few references to marriage because it was simply foundational. He made clear it was between a man and a woman.

    "Paul may even be read as allowing women to divorce cruel husbands"

    Huh?

    , @JasonT
    @Philip Owen

    Genesis 2:24
    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    Matthew 19:4-6
    4 And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female,
    5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they two shall be one flesh?
    6 Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.

    It seems pretty clear that the Bible (New and Old Testament) consider marriage to be between a man and a woman. Various other passages refer to homosexuality as an abomination.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    , @216
    @Philip Owen

    This is an old subversive argument I haven't seen in a long, long time...

    , @David Davenport
    @Philip Owen

    The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little.

    "Better to marry than to burn."

    Christians often interpret Paul's statement in I Cor. 7:9 (i.e. "it's better to marry than to burn") as though, as a general rule, it's better to get married hastily than to be consumed with sexual passion. But as Gordon Fee points out,1 Paul does not say (as the ESV & NIV translate it), "if they cannot exercise self control, it's better to marry than to burn with passion." Rather, in the Greek, Paul says, "if they are not exercising self control (i.e. practicing continence), it's better to marry than to burn with passion."

    In context, Paul is referring to those people in Corinth who are doing the same sorts of things as some of the married couples in verses 1-7 are tempted to do, i.e. indulging in sexual immorality.

    And as Fee also points out, the formation of clubs which associated with and indulged in cultic prostitution is but one example of a very common sin throughout Corinthian culture, and Paul alludes to that association two other times in this first epistle to the Corinthians."


    http://www.thisexplainsmore.com/2013/06/better-to-marry-than-to-burn.html

    Paul was concerned that Christians in Corinth were backsliding into paganism.

    The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/New-Testament-homosexuality.html

    It should be observed that many children in Russia are brought up by a single sex couple of mother and grandmother.

    Same as many Africkan-Americans.

  40. Why would anyone believe polls commissioned by those who want to tell us that 70% Americans support fags raping kids?

    Polls should no longer decide anything, because votes no longer decide anything.

  41. @Rich
    70% of Americans do not support homosexual "marriage ". This was proven when this joke was put to a democratic vote and lost time and again. It was imposed by the ruling class which releases polls showing how everyone agrees with whatever silliness they decide to impose. The polls are all fake, just tools of the elite. The Romans used similar antics to keep the plebeians out of power.

    Replies: @Wency, @GazaPlanet

    Pollsters and mass media figures are basically kikes spitting in your face.

    It is beyond belief that they are tolerated.

  42. @Agathoklis
    @Bardon Kaldian

    If I can put myself in a gay man's shoes, I could never understand their need to have gay marriage accepted. As a skirt chasing young man, for me one of the things that made the gay life attractive was the lack of obligations. They could just pursue sex throughout their whole lives. Obviously, they pursued wrong kind. However, as a straight man, there comes a time when you must begin to build an empire, create a family and think about their future and the world they may live in. Sensible European men just have that hard wired in them. Once you make that decision you suddenly become a family man and all that entails. Because gay men cannot sire children like we do, then why would they feel the need to have a steady long term relationship and domesticate themselves. They have negated the only thing that made their life attractive.

    There is a gay couple in my neighbourhood. There is nothing more tragic than seeing a gay couple gardening, hanging the clothes on the line or unloading the car with shopping.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Bardon Kaldian

    Because gay men cannot sire children like we do, then why would they feel the need to have a steady long term relationship and domesticate themselves.

    Perhaps because they love each other and cannot imagine being separated?

    Because they care for each other’s well being?

    My wife has a gay couple friends who have had a stable relationship for more than 35 years. One of them died from COVID-19 this summer. These two guys were way more attached to each other than the majority of heterosexual couples I know. The surviving one will probably not last for long.

    Human emotions are not something rational. I am sure glad I am straight, married and having a stable relationship with kids, dogs, cats etc. But people do not have to see the world in the same way as I do.

    I feel disgusted by the Gay Pride exhibitionism and militancy, but if they live their life quietly on their own and are happy that way, then who am I to judge them and why should I care?

    • Agree: mal
    • Replies: @Agathoklis
    @Ano4

    The love that a man and woman feel for each other is not possible for gay people because the ultimate actualisation of that love is giving birth to children which gays are unable to do.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @Kent Nationalist
    @Ano4

    I have never encountered a homosexual who did not have an unpleasant and dysfunctional personality. Even with Jews, I have encountered many who were individually pleasant and whom I could be friends with.

    Replies: @Ano4

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Ano4

    You are right, but I think socio-cultural investigations show that such kind of relationships is extremely rare in gay community (and very rare in straight community).

  43. @songbird
    @AaronB


    But why would the population be so ok with it?
     
    Partly, I think it is deference to authority. Imagine the Milgram experiment, if the people turning the knob were told "we will sue you, or get you fired from your job, if you don't turn the knob." This kind of lawfare doesn't exist in less-organized societies.

    Of course, many people probably genuinely don't care, but are just absorbing elite values passively.

    Then there's been a lot of demographic changes. Gays have been drawn into cities, as families have been pushed out. (IMO, people with children might be considered to be a check on gays' behavior). TFR is lower than ever, so there are less children. Some groups with slightly higher TFR view gays as allies in a sense, part of the effort to promote diversity and thus their own interests.

    Replies: @Charlotte, @AaronB

    Marriage itself underwent a redefinition in the last century. It ceased to be understood as an institution for producing and raising the next generation and became a vehicle of personal fulfillment instead. Have kids or not, get married or not, stay married or not, what matters is your personal happiness. Gay marriage fits right in with that view of marriage.

    Back before I got redpilled, I was instinctively bothered by gay marriage, but I didn’t really object to it because I couldn’t think of a good, solid reason to do so. I was too in thrall to the marriage-as-personal-fulfillment model I’d learned.

    I’ve never seen this addressed, but I wonder if the 20th century demographic change toward paid work and away from from farming and small businesses/trades accelerated the changing view of marriage by diminishing the importance of inheritance. If you’ve worked the family farm/business all your life, you care who’ll succeed you. If you can’t pass on your job or even your trade, having an heir may matter less, and that may lessen the perceived value of a traditional, child-centered marriage.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Charlotte


    Marriage itself underwent a redefinition in the last century. It ceased to be understood as an institution for producing and raising the next generation and became a vehicle of personal fulfillment instead. Have kids or not, get married or not, stay married or not, what matters is your personal happiness. Gay marriage fits right in with that view of marriage.
     
    I agree. The change to marriage for personal fulfilment was a more radical change than homosexual marriage.

    Whether it was a change for the better or the worse is a matter of taste but it was a momentous change.
    , @Coconuts
    @Charlotte


    Marriage itself underwent a redefinition in the last century. It ceased to be understood as an institution for producing and raising the next generation and became a vehicle of personal fulfillment instead. Have kids or not, get married or not, stay married or not, what matters is your personal happiness. Gay marriage fits right in with that view of marriage.
     
    The bad thing about the gay marriage movement (this seems to apply in various Western countries) is that politicians celebrated redefining marriage and formally institutionalising the personal fulfillment model at the expense of the family/children one as a great achievement, representing significant social progress. There was a kind of general social pressure to actively support or celebrate the reform.

    This is probably because it partly grew out of the tendency to venerate homosexuals and homosexuality, and to see it is something valuable in and of itself because heteronormativity is fascistic. (Only chastity seems to be more fascistic than heteronormativity).

    The Fidesz MP mentioned above may be gay, but he may not be politically gay and may not believe in promoting the queer viewpoint in society, this could explain his attitude to gay marriage.

    , @AaronB
    @Charlotte

    If we apply the survive/thrive paradigm to having children, you are saying people only have kids out of the survive paradigm.

    I don't think that's true.

    People today will not accept the survive paradigm, so if having children isn't attractive in the thrive paradigm, you're out of luck.

    But in my opinion, the problem is precisely that beginning with the Puritans, we have over emphasized the survive paradigm. Having kids is supposed to be miserable but part of your duty.

    I think people are generally fed up with the survive paradigm across the board, and that is leading to much of our dysfunction. If you can show people that having kids is intrinsically fun, not some grim duty or responsibility, they will start having kids.

    And having kids is fun and I think previous generations saw it that way until the survive paradigm gradually took over everything in Western culture, leading to its collapse out of joylessness.

    Its one of those paradoxes again. People will only start having kids again when you tell them they don't have to - its not a duty, its a joy. Telling them having kids isn't important, will lead to them having them out of fun.

    Right now people are rebelling against duties- the survive paradigm.

  44. @Indiana Jack
    @songbird

    Part of this may also be simply that, as a percentage of the population, there are more gays today than there were in the past and thus there are more gay people around to push an agenda or to gain power within a certain industry. If one accepts Gregory Cochran's gay germ theory, this makes sense - the world is more highly urbanized today than at any previous time in history, and greater population densities provide an environment in which germs can spread.

    Responses to surveys are of course notoriously unreliable regarding sensitive issues like a person's sexual inclinations. But it is worth noting that the number of people self-identifying as gay has increased in recent decades, and the incidence of homosexuality is much higher in cities than in small towns or rural areas. This seems to be true of people born and raised in cities vs rural areas, so it is not just a case of gay people moving to cities.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Part of this may also be simply that, as a percentage of the population, there are more gays today than there were in the past and thus there are more gay people around to push an agenda or to gain power within a certain industry. If one accepts Gregory Cochran’s gay germ theory, this makes sense – the world is more highly urbanized today than at any previous time in history, and greater population densities provide an environment in which germs can spread.

    Possibly. Or if sexuality is to a considerable extent cultural once you get homosexuals congregating in cities they reach a critical mass and are able to spread their homosexual culture.

    And cities have a lot more cultural soft power than rural communities. The culture of the urbanised sector of the population eventually becomes the culture of the whole society.

    Many if not most of the cultural changes of the past century or so are probably just the inevitable result of urbanisation, and the imposition of urban culture on everybody else.

  45. Note that family names in Russian are less relevant than in most western European languages– everyone legally has Name Patronymic Surname, and is typically formally addressed as Name Patronymic.

  46. @Philip Owen
    The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little. Paul may even be read as allowing women to divorce cruel husbands, although not to remarry and Christian men other than priests to have multiple wives. These rules would cause much more outrage in modern society than gay marriage. Modern marriage is about transfer of property, including children and an element of guardianship over the spouse when said spouse is incapacitated. The church lent its authority but it is not fundamentally an issue of Christian morality. Sex as a whole is suspect in the New Testament.

    That said, I campaigned for Civil Partnerships for single sex couples. I remain opposed to single sex adoption of children and 'marriage'. Marriage to me is bringing extra security to management of family relations. It's not just the law it's your own promise to yourself, wife, future children and community.

    It should be observed that many children in Russia are brought up by a single sex couple of mother and grandmother.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Kent Nationalist, @showmethereal, @JasonT, @216, @David Davenport

  47. @Charlotte
    @songbird

    Marriage itself underwent a redefinition in the last century. It ceased to be understood as an institution for producing and raising the next generation and became a vehicle of personal fulfillment instead. Have kids or not, get married or not, stay married or not, what matters is your personal happiness. Gay marriage fits right in with that view of marriage.

    Back before I got redpilled, I was instinctively bothered by gay marriage, but I didn’t really object to it because I couldn’t think of a good, solid reason to do so. I was too in thrall to the marriage-as-personal-fulfillment model I’d learned.

    I’ve never seen this addressed, but I wonder if the 20th century demographic change toward paid work and away from from farming and small businesses/trades accelerated the changing view of marriage by diminishing the importance of inheritance. If you’ve worked the family farm/business all your life, you care who’ll succeed you. If you can’t pass on your job or even your trade, having an heir may matter less, and that may lessen the perceived value of a traditional, child-centered marriage.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Coconuts, @AaronB

    Marriage itself underwent a redefinition in the last century. It ceased to be understood as an institution for producing and raising the next generation and became a vehicle of personal fulfillment instead. Have kids or not, get married or not, stay married or not, what matters is your personal happiness. Gay marriage fits right in with that view of marriage.

    I agree. The change to marriage for personal fulfilment was a more radical change than homosexual marriage.

    Whether it was a change for the better or the worse is a matter of taste but it was a momentous change.

    • Agree: Ano4
  48. @Agathoklis
    @AltanBakshi

    I find this constant reference to eastern religions very tedious. It is a complete dead end for a European man.

    Replies: @Ano4, @AltanBakshi

    If moderns would start emulating ancient Hellenic sexuality – that would be a complete dead end for a European man.

    Also Buddha was an Aryan and revered mostly same gods as ancient Romans, Hellenes, Slavs and Germanic.

    Indra, the guardian of our religion, a god of thunder and heavens is a same god as Thor, Perun, Zeus and Iuppiter, he has his lighting weapon and his arch enemy is the mighty serpent. For some reason he is most similar to Thor? There is Dyaus Pita(cognate of Iuppiter and Zeus), the god of sky, but he is quite minor in Buddhism. Surya the sun, who is an ancestor of the Buddha, is a direct equivalent of Hellenic Helios or Roman Sol, he even rides a chariot, just like his western forms. Kama god of desire has wings and carries a bow, just like Eros, we see him as an enemy of Buddhism. These are just few examples among many. For Hindus these gods are secondary or forgotten, they now worship gods who were invented at a later period or who have their origins in the native traditions of the subcontinent.
    But we in Buddhadharma still hold ancient gods dear and near!

    Come home western man! We literally have Hercules/Herakles as a guardian of Buddha. Yes according the Buddhism there is a divine realm and divine beings too can change, so Herakles has accepted Buddhas teachings and now he lives on as a guardian of Buddha, we literally worship him, he is very important for us, so it can be asked who is more western?

    https://classicalstudies.org/annual-meeting/150/abstract/heraklesvajrapani-companion-buddha

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi

    One of the most striking examples of the similarities of what remains of the once extant Aryan religion - probably prior to the Vedic period - is Svarga (a heavenly abode in Hinduism) and Svarog (the god of daylight heaven in Slavic paganism).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svarga

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svarog

    My personal (and scientifically unsubstantiated) opinion is that the religious and cultural unity of the (proto) European populations might have lasted as late as the times of Unetice culture, which bridged the divide between Bell Beaker derived Western Europeans and Corded Ware derived Eastern Europeans, while also integrating the descendants of people of the Megalithic Europe.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture

    This type of cultural amalgamation of very different ethnic backgrounds might have been built around religious and mythological structures produced by a "professional " priestly class (compare Celtic Druids of Antiquity to Balto-Slavic Wendish Drev Vids of Arkona - the last bastion of European paganism).

    Which brings us back to elite dominating the cultural and social values' narrative being nothing new. Masses produce no higher forms of culture on their own.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  49. The evolution of the appearances of Herakles.

  50. @Charlotte
    @songbird

    Marriage itself underwent a redefinition in the last century. It ceased to be understood as an institution for producing and raising the next generation and became a vehicle of personal fulfillment instead. Have kids or not, get married or not, stay married or not, what matters is your personal happiness. Gay marriage fits right in with that view of marriage.

    Back before I got redpilled, I was instinctively bothered by gay marriage, but I didn’t really object to it because I couldn’t think of a good, solid reason to do so. I was too in thrall to the marriage-as-personal-fulfillment model I’d learned.

    I’ve never seen this addressed, but I wonder if the 20th century demographic change toward paid work and away from from farming and small businesses/trades accelerated the changing view of marriage by diminishing the importance of inheritance. If you’ve worked the family farm/business all your life, you care who’ll succeed you. If you can’t pass on your job or even your trade, having an heir may matter less, and that may lessen the perceived value of a traditional, child-centered marriage.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Coconuts, @AaronB

    Marriage itself underwent a redefinition in the last century. It ceased to be understood as an institution for producing and raising the next generation and became a vehicle of personal fulfillment instead. Have kids or not, get married or not, stay married or not, what matters is your personal happiness. Gay marriage fits right in with that view of marriage.

    The bad thing about the gay marriage movement (this seems to apply in various Western countries) is that politicians celebrated redefining marriage and formally institutionalising the personal fulfillment model at the expense of the family/children one as a great achievement, representing significant social progress. There was a kind of general social pressure to actively support or celebrate the reform.

    This is probably because it partly grew out of the tendency to venerate homosexuals and homosexuality, and to see it is something valuable in and of itself because heteronormativity is fascistic. (Only chastity seems to be more fascistic than heteronormativity).

    The Fidesz MP mentioned above may be gay, but he may not be politically gay and may not believe in promoting the queer viewpoint in society, this could explain his attitude to gay marriage.

  51. I got the traditional Asian attitude, homosexuality should not be promoted and society should support heterosexual norms, but they can exist and they should be protected by the law from violence like rest of the people, but only as a silent minority in their own cultural ghetto. Thats the middle way between Islamic societies and current western madness.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    Thats the middle way between Islamic societies and current western madness
     
    Modern and historical Islamic societies are quite full of homosexual activities.



    https://thediplomat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/sizes/td-story-s-2/thediplomat_2016-06-15_02-02-59.jpg

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/styles/article_page/public/images-story/88155988_2304832746480946_9135267225228279808_o.jpg?itok=rr9Titiw

    They are just being hypocritical about it.

    Islam prescribes rejecting and ostracizing effeminate men and masculine women, it clearly describes homosexuality as a sin deserving divine punishment. Nevertheless, Islamic societies have never been able to stomp out the homosexuality from their midst.

    This is simply due to homosexuality being the unfortunate reality of a fraction of society in all cultures and civilizations. A small percentage of people always was and always will be homosexual.

    Agree with the rest of your comment: there should be no violence against them, nor promoting their sexual orientation.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @songbird
    @AltanBakshi

    At a minimum, in my most liberal scenario for solving the gay problem, I think roughly the worst 10% of gays - the "super-gays", with scores of sexual partners, would need to be exiled to an island somewhere.

    It is an interesting philosophical question whether gays on the Right should be tolerated. I think the flamboyant ones like Milo should not be tolerated. I also think that gay organizations, like the sinister-sounding Log Cabin Republicans, should not be tolerated.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @dfordoom
    @AltanBakshi


    I got the traditional Asian attitude, homosexuality should not be promoted and society should support heterosexual norms, but they can exist and they should be protected by the law from violence like rest of the people, but only as a silent minority in their own cultural ghetto.
     
    In practice that's probably the only workable solution.
  52. @Agathoklis
    @Bardon Kaldian

    If I can put myself in a gay man's shoes, I could never understand their need to have gay marriage accepted. As a skirt chasing young man, for me one of the things that made the gay life attractive was the lack of obligations. They could just pursue sex throughout their whole lives. Obviously, they pursued wrong kind. However, as a straight man, there comes a time when you must begin to build an empire, create a family and think about their future and the world they may live in. Sensible European men just have that hard wired in them. Once you make that decision you suddenly become a family man and all that entails. Because gay men cannot sire children like we do, then why would they feel the need to have a steady long term relationship and domesticate themselves. They have negated the only thing that made their life attractive.

    There is a gay couple in my neighbourhood. There is nothing more tragic than seeing a gay couple gardening, hanging the clothes on the line or unloading the car with shopping.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Bardon Kaldian

    Pretty much my thoughts. In my view, putting aside real problems that can beset anyone (ill health, age- related weaknesses, financial & social troubles,..)- gay life, when they are healthy & young, seems to me much freer than ours.

    “Homo marriage” may be for lesbians, but for gay men- it’s a joke.

    Obviously, they pursued wrong kind…..They have negated the only thing that made their life attractive.

    With this I don’t agree. For me, their physical-sexual life is disgusting & makes me vomit. But, that’s my perspective. From their point of view- it is great, they enjoy it. And they are free, if potent, to build empires, literally, from Alexander (who was, by all accounts, a bisexual) to Cecil Rhodes, who preferred boys.

  53. @AltanBakshi
    @Agathoklis

    If moderns would start emulating ancient Hellenic sexuality - that would be a complete dead end for a European man.


    Also Buddha was an Aryan and revered mostly same gods as ancient Romans, Hellenes, Slavs and Germanic.

    Indra, the guardian of our religion, a god of thunder and heavens is a same god as Thor, Perun, Zeus and Iuppiter, he has his lighting weapon and his arch enemy is the mighty serpent. For some reason he is most similar to Thor? There is Dyaus Pita(cognate of Iuppiter and Zeus), the god of sky, but he is quite minor in Buddhism. Surya the sun, who is an ancestor of the Buddha, is a direct equivalent of Hellenic Helios or Roman Sol, he even rides a chariot, just like his western forms. Kama god of desire has wings and carries a bow, just like Eros, we see him as an enemy of Buddhism. These are just few examples among many. For Hindus these gods are secondary or forgotten, they now worship gods who were invented at a later period or who have their origins in the native traditions of the subcontinent.
    But we in Buddhadharma still hold ancient gods dear and near!

    Come home western man! We literally have Hercules/Herakles as a guardian of Buddha. Yes according the Buddhism there is a divine realm and divine beings too can change, so Herakles has accepted Buddhas teachings and now he lives on as a guardian of Buddha, we literally worship him, he is very important for us, so it can be asked who is more western?

    https://classicalstudies.org/annual-meeting/150/abstract/heraklesvajrapani-companion-buddha

    https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1662/26342195961_094d1e85f1_b.jpg

    https://preview.redd.it/jcd2242goe231.jpg?width=401&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f9ccf99467a0679979a607811fdc2b6849b42d3

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/TheBuddhaAndVajrapaniGandhara2ndCentury.jpg

    Replies: @Ano4

    One of the most striking examples of the similarities of what remains of the once extant Aryan religion – probably prior to the Vedic period – is Svarga (a heavenly abode in Hinduism) and Svarog (the god of daylight heaven in Slavic paganism).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svarga

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svarog

    My personal (and scientifically unsubstantiated) opinion is that the religious and cultural unity of the (proto) European populations might have lasted as late as the times of Unetice culture, which bridged the divide between Bell Beaker derived Western Europeans and Corded Ware derived Eastern Europeans, while also integrating the descendants of people of the Megalithic Europe.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture

    This type of cultural amalgamation of very different ethnic backgrounds might have been built around religious and mythological structures produced by a “professional ” priestly class (compare Celtic Druids of Antiquity to Balto-Slavic Wendish Drev Vids of Arkona – the last bastion of European paganism).

    Which brings us back to elite dominating the cultural and social values’ narrative being nothing new. Masses produce no higher forms of culture on their own.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4

    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism? Of course paganism in un organized form survived much longer among the Finnic peoples of the Northeastern Europe.

    Its a false meme that all culture drips down from elites or that they unilaterally choose the direction of culture. Often elites mimic the culture of lower classes, so that they could have some authenticity especially if the elite culture is seen as too effete and soft. You know that they could also have some street cred and not be just some pansy boys who were born with a silver spoon in a mouth. Some examples are tattoos, almost all modern music from blues to rock n roll and rap, especially the manner of speech.

    One excellent and major example is the rise of Christianity, the senatorial and patrician class opposed it for the longest.

    Im not saying that lower classes are conscious about their cultural power or that all culture rises among proletariat, I am just saying that things are never as simple as some would like. Im just saying that Truth is beyond all extremes.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!

    https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/54cac102674871890b57d0cf/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/image.jpg

    Replies: @Ano4, @Philip Owen, @Not Raul

  54. @Ano4
    @Agathoklis


    Because gay men cannot sire children like we do, then why would they feel the need to have a steady long term relationship and domesticate themselves.
     
    Perhaps because they love each other and cannot imagine being separated?

    Because they care for each other's well being?

    My wife has a gay couple friends who have had a stable relationship for more than 35 years. One of them died from COVID-19 this summer. These two guys were way more attached to each other than the majority of heterosexual couples I know. The surviving one will probably not last for long.

    Human emotions are not something rational. I am sure glad I am straight, married and having a stable relationship with kids, dogs, cats etc. But people do not have to see the world in the same way as I do.

    I feel disgusted by the Gay Pride exhibitionism and militancy, but if they live their life quietly on their own and are happy that way, then who am I to judge them and why should I care?

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Kent Nationalist, @Bardon Kaldian

    The love that a man and woman feel for each other is not possible for gay people because the ultimate actualisation of that love is giving birth to children which gays are unable to do.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Agathoklis

    In this you are extremely right, such love is sanctified for it gives birth to a life, it upholds the very existence of humanity. Therefore the innermost core of love between man and woman is compassion. Such can not be said of homosexual relations.

    Theres a an esoteric tantric meaning, but oh well you dont want to hear about eastern religions, so I will pass.

  55. @Philip Owen
    The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little. Paul may even be read as allowing women to divorce cruel husbands, although not to remarry and Christian men other than priests to have multiple wives. These rules would cause much more outrage in modern society than gay marriage. Modern marriage is about transfer of property, including children and an element of guardianship over the spouse when said spouse is incapacitated. The church lent its authority but it is not fundamentally an issue of Christian morality. Sex as a whole is suspect in the New Testament.

    That said, I campaigned for Civil Partnerships for single sex couples. I remain opposed to single sex adoption of children and 'marriage'. Marriage to me is bringing extra security to management of family relations. It's not just the law it's your own promise to yourself, wife, future children and community.

    It should be observed that many children in Russia are brought up by a single sex couple of mother and grandmother.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Kent Nationalist, @showmethereal, @JasonT, @216, @David Davenport

    They don’t say much about bestiality or pederasty either. Some things you can know by reason and don’t require revelation.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Kent Nationalist

    Didn't need to talk about those things since they used the Torah and the Prophets as their reference for everything. The Roman Catholics buried that history - but that's what it was.

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist

  56. @Ano4
    @Agathoklis


    Because gay men cannot sire children like we do, then why would they feel the need to have a steady long term relationship and domesticate themselves.
     
    Perhaps because they love each other and cannot imagine being separated?

    Because they care for each other's well being?

    My wife has a gay couple friends who have had a stable relationship for more than 35 years. One of them died from COVID-19 this summer. These two guys were way more attached to each other than the majority of heterosexual couples I know. The surviving one will probably not last for long.

    Human emotions are not something rational. I am sure glad I am straight, married and having a stable relationship with kids, dogs, cats etc. But people do not have to see the world in the same way as I do.

    I feel disgusted by the Gay Pride exhibitionism and militancy, but if they live their life quietly on their own and are happy that way, then who am I to judge them and why should I care?

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Kent Nationalist, @Bardon Kaldian

    I have never encountered a homosexual who did not have an unpleasant and dysfunctional personality. Even with Jews, I have encountered many who were individually pleasant and whom I could be friends with.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Kent Nationalist

    I have never been friends with gays, but my wife is more open minded than I am. She's Western, where I come from (Soviet Moscow) gay people are mostly seen as degenerate deviants. One of my childhood friends came out as a gay a few years ago, but he never revealed anything about his sexual orientation while we were young.

    Speaking of Jews, I have met a lot of interesting Jews and have been on friendly terms with a few of them. But I make it clear to them that I do not take their cultural and historical peculiarities seriously. For me they are neither "G-d's chosen People ", nor "Synagogue of Satan ". I tend to see them as very thoroughly westernized Middle Easterners with a somewhat crazy high opinion about their overall historical record.

  57. @AltanBakshi
    I got the traditional Asian attitude, homosexuality should not be promoted and society should support heterosexual norms, but they can exist and they should be protected by the law from violence like rest of the people, but only as a silent minority in their own cultural ghetto. Thats the middle way between Islamic societies and current western madness.

    Replies: @Ano4, @songbird, @dfordoom

    Thats the middle way between Islamic societies and current western madness

    Modern and historical Islamic societies are quite full of homosexual activities.

    [MORE]

    They are just being hypocritical about it.

    Islam prescribes rejecting and ostracizing effeminate men and masculine women, it clearly describes homosexuality as a sin deserving divine punishment. Nevertheless, Islamic societies have never been able to stomp out the homosexuality from their midst.

    This is simply due to homosexuality being the unfortunate reality of a fraction of society in all cultures and civilizations. A small percentage of people always was and always will be homosexual.

    Agree with the rest of your comment: there should be no violence against them, nor promoting their sexual orientation.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    Modern and historical Islamic societies are quite full of homosexual activities.

    They are just being hypocritical about it.
     
    I know, still you very well understood what I meant. In many Islamic societies homosexuals are threatened by capital punishment, and thats what I meant by one extreme.

    Ps. Is trannyposting now your thing or what?

    Replies: @Ano4

  58. @Kent Nationalist
    @Ano4

    I have never encountered a homosexual who did not have an unpleasant and dysfunctional personality. Even with Jews, I have encountered many who were individually pleasant and whom I could be friends with.

    Replies: @Ano4

    I have never been friends with gays, but my wife is more open minded than I am. She’s Western, where I come from (Soviet Moscow) gay people are mostly seen as degenerate deviants. One of my childhood friends came out as a gay a few years ago, but he never revealed anything about his sexual orientation while we were young.

    Speaking of Jews, I have met a lot of interesting Jews and have been on friendly terms with a few of them. But I make it clear to them that I do not take their cultural and historical peculiarities seriously. For me they are neither “G-d’s chosen People “, nor “Synagogue of Satan “. I tend to see them as very thoroughly westernized Middle Easterners with a somewhat crazy high opinion about their overall historical record.

  59. @songbird
    In 1919, Woodrow Wilson famously said this: "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."

    I feel the same way about women with hyphenated names.

    Replies: @gate666

    ivanka trump?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @gate666

    I dislike Ivanka. I think she's bad politically, but I'm not so sure that she is, as I would typically think of these women - a severe feminist. Probably, she is better described as a socialite trying to profit off her father's name.

  60. @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi

    One of the most striking examples of the similarities of what remains of the once extant Aryan religion - probably prior to the Vedic period - is Svarga (a heavenly abode in Hinduism) and Svarog (the god of daylight heaven in Slavic paganism).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svarga

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svarog

    My personal (and scientifically unsubstantiated) opinion is that the religious and cultural unity of the (proto) European populations might have lasted as late as the times of Unetice culture, which bridged the divide between Bell Beaker derived Western Europeans and Corded Ware derived Eastern Europeans, while also integrating the descendants of people of the Megalithic Europe.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture

    This type of cultural amalgamation of very different ethnic backgrounds might have been built around religious and mythological structures produced by a "professional " priestly class (compare Celtic Druids of Antiquity to Balto-Slavic Wendish Drev Vids of Arkona - the last bastion of European paganism).

    Which brings us back to elite dominating the cultural and social values' narrative being nothing new. Masses produce no higher forms of culture on their own.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism? Of course paganism in un organized form survived much longer among the Finnic peoples of the Northeastern Europe.

    Its a false meme that all culture drips down from elites or that they unilaterally choose the direction of culture. Often elites mimic the culture of lower classes, so that they could have some authenticity especially if the elite culture is seen as too effete and soft. You know that they could also have some street cred and not be just some pansy boys who were born with a silver spoon in a mouth. Some examples are tattoos, almost all modern music from blues to rock n roll and rap, especially the manner of speech.

    One excellent and major example is the rise of Christianity, the senatorial and patrician class opposed it for the longest.

    Im not saying that lower classes are conscious about their cultural power or that all culture rises among proletariat, I am just saying that things are never as simple as some would like. Im just saying that Truth is beyond all extremes.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism?
     
    Yes as a population Lithuanians have been the last to mass convert to Christianity. But Arkona was the last major religious center to fall.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!
     
    Agree. But I was only writing about higher forms of mythology, culture and religion.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    , @Philip Owen
    @AltanBakshi

    The abilty of the Rothschilds vanished in a cocaine haze in the 1920's and never recovered. The latest in the London branch lost huge fortunes on coal in Indonesia, oil in Iraq & Russia.

    Replies: @Ano4

    , @Not Raul
    @AltanBakshi


    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism? Of course paganism in un organized form survived much longer among the Finnic peoples of the Northeastern Europe.
     
    AFAIK, it was.

    Its a false meme that all culture drips down from elites or that they unilaterally choose the direction of culture. Often elites mimic the culture of lower classes, so that they could have some authenticity especially if the elite culture is seen as too effete and soft.
     
    That seems to have happened in Rurik’s Russia and post-Norman England.

    You know that they could also have some street cred and not be just some pansy boys who were born with a silver spoon in a mouth. Some examples are tattoos, almost all modern music from blues to rock n roll and rap, especially the manner of speech.
     
    Or rich kids with fake East Enders accents in the UK.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!
     
    Me, too.
  61. @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    Thats the middle way between Islamic societies and current western madness
     
    Modern and historical Islamic societies are quite full of homosexual activities.



    https://thediplomat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/sizes/td-story-s-2/thediplomat_2016-06-15_02-02-59.jpg

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/styles/article_page/public/images-story/88155988_2304832746480946_9135267225228279808_o.jpg?itok=rr9Titiw

    They are just being hypocritical about it.

    Islam prescribes rejecting and ostracizing effeminate men and masculine women, it clearly describes homosexuality as a sin deserving divine punishment. Nevertheless, Islamic societies have never been able to stomp out the homosexuality from their midst.

    This is simply due to homosexuality being the unfortunate reality of a fraction of society in all cultures and civilizations. A small percentage of people always was and always will be homosexual.

    Agree with the rest of your comment: there should be no violence against them, nor promoting their sexual orientation.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Modern and historical Islamic societies are quite full of homosexual activities.

    They are just being hypocritical about it.

    I know, still you very well understood what I meant. In many Islamic societies homosexuals are threatened by capital punishment, and thats what I meant by one extreme.

    Ps. Is trannyposting now your thing or what?

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    In many Islamic societies homosexuals are threatened by capital punishment,
     
    Depends on the school of Fikh and is rarely enforced, except in extreme Wahhabite strongholds (Taliban, ISIS). In Iran death sentence is usually pronounced only in case of pedophilia and rape.

    Ps. Is trannyposting now your thing or what?
     
    Don't think the guy's a trans, he's some Yemeni refugee blogger in Saudi Arabia who decided that it was a good idea to defend LGBTQ rights in KSA online. Of course he got imprisoned, fined and expelled back to Yemen. In short, he was a low IQ queer who got himself into idiotic trouble. Unless he expects that he will get a refugee status in the West for his pain.

    Speaking of trannies, IFAIK in Iran the consensus of the Twelver Islamic Jurists was in favor of authorizing sex reassignment for people with strong gender dysphoria and confused sexual identity. They actually subsidize the operation.

    https://qz.com/889548/everyone-treated-me-like-a-saint-in-iran-theres-only-one-way-to-survive-as-a-transgender-person/

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  62. @gate666
    @songbird

    ivanka trump?

    Replies: @songbird

    I dislike Ivanka. I think she’s bad politically, but I’m not so sure that she is, as I would typically think of these women – a severe feminist. Probably, she is better described as a socialite trying to profit off her father’s name.

  63. @AltanBakshi
    I got the traditional Asian attitude, homosexuality should not be promoted and society should support heterosexual norms, but they can exist and they should be protected by the law from violence like rest of the people, but only as a silent minority in their own cultural ghetto. Thats the middle way between Islamic societies and current western madness.

    Replies: @Ano4, @songbird, @dfordoom

    At a minimum, in my most liberal scenario for solving the gay problem, I think roughly the worst 10% of gays – the “super-gays”, with scores of sexual partners, would need to be exiled to an island somewhere.

    It is an interesting philosophical question whether gays on the Right should be tolerated. I think the flamboyant ones like Milo should not be tolerated. I also think that gay organizations, like the sinister-sounding Log Cabin Republicans, should not be tolerated.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @songbird


    It is an interesting philosophical question whether gays on the Right should be tolerated. I think the flamboyant ones like Milo should not be tolerated. I also think that gay organizations, like the sinister-sounding Log Cabin Republicans, should not be tolerated.
     
    Yes its quite interesting question. When I was younger I thought that all gays are categorically bad, but now I think that clearly there have been some true men of the tradition and right who have been gays, like Frederik the Great and some others, possibly even Julius Caesar. So maybe the main problem is not the homosexuality itself, but narcissist attitude towards the society. Mistaken view that the society should revolve around ones marginal sexual identity.

    Still society is a one thing and religion another. They are not welcome to Buddhism.

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist

  64. @songbird
    @AltanBakshi

    At a minimum, in my most liberal scenario for solving the gay problem, I think roughly the worst 10% of gays - the "super-gays", with scores of sexual partners, would need to be exiled to an island somewhere.

    It is an interesting philosophical question whether gays on the Right should be tolerated. I think the flamboyant ones like Milo should not be tolerated. I also think that gay organizations, like the sinister-sounding Log Cabin Republicans, should not be tolerated.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    It is an interesting philosophical question whether gays on the Right should be tolerated. I think the flamboyant ones like Milo should not be tolerated. I also think that gay organizations, like the sinister-sounding Log Cabin Republicans, should not be tolerated.

    Yes its quite interesting question. When I was younger I thought that all gays are categorically bad, but now I think that clearly there have been some true men of the tradition and right who have been gays, like Frederik the Great and some others, possibly even Julius Caesar. So maybe the main problem is not the homosexuality itself, but narcissist attitude towards the society. Mistaken view that the society should revolve around ones marginal sexual identity.

    Still society is a one thing and religion another. They are not welcome to Buddhism.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    @AltanBakshi


    Frederik the Great
     
    That mincing warmonger who said that he would be happy to invite Muslims and Jews to live in his country is one of the worst examples you could have picked.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  65. @songbird
    @AaronB


    But why would the population be so ok with it?
     
    Partly, I think it is deference to authority. Imagine the Milgram experiment, if the people turning the knob were told "we will sue you, or get you fired from your job, if you don't turn the knob." This kind of lawfare doesn't exist in less-organized societies.

    Of course, many people probably genuinely don't care, but are just absorbing elite values passively.

    Then there's been a lot of demographic changes. Gays have been drawn into cities, as families have been pushed out. (IMO, people with children might be considered to be a check on gays' behavior). TFR is lower than ever, so there are less children. Some groups with slightly higher TFR view gays as allies in a sense, part of the effort to promote diversity and thus their own interests.

    Replies: @Charlotte, @AaronB

    Deference to authority is a factor. But I dont think it is the whole story.

    I don’t believe authority can shape us to their will. We are not infinitely malleable.

    Our explanations may be mutually supporting. The ground was made fertile by an increase in safety making people more open, then authority adding the finishing touches.

    But I would say authority figures are themselves limited in what they can successfully push, and just work with the reality they have.

  66. @Charlotte
    @songbird

    Marriage itself underwent a redefinition in the last century. It ceased to be understood as an institution for producing and raising the next generation and became a vehicle of personal fulfillment instead. Have kids or not, get married or not, stay married or not, what matters is your personal happiness. Gay marriage fits right in with that view of marriage.

    Back before I got redpilled, I was instinctively bothered by gay marriage, but I didn’t really object to it because I couldn’t think of a good, solid reason to do so. I was too in thrall to the marriage-as-personal-fulfillment model I’d learned.

    I’ve never seen this addressed, but I wonder if the 20th century demographic change toward paid work and away from from farming and small businesses/trades accelerated the changing view of marriage by diminishing the importance of inheritance. If you’ve worked the family farm/business all your life, you care who’ll succeed you. If you can’t pass on your job or even your trade, having an heir may matter less, and that may lessen the perceived value of a traditional, child-centered marriage.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Coconuts, @AaronB

    If we apply the survive/thrive paradigm to having children, you are saying people only have kids out of the survive paradigm.

    I don’t think that’s true.

    People today will not accept the survive paradigm, so if having children isn’t attractive in the thrive paradigm, you’re out of luck.

    But in my opinion, the problem is precisely that beginning with the Puritans, we have over emphasized the survive paradigm. Having kids is supposed to be miserable but part of your duty.

    I think people are generally fed up with the survive paradigm across the board, and that is leading to much of our dysfunction. If you can show people that having kids is intrinsically fun, not some grim duty or responsibility, they will start having kids.

    And having kids is fun and I think previous generations saw it that way until the survive paradigm gradually took over everything in Western culture, leading to its collapse out of joylessness.

    Its one of those paradoxes again. People will only start having kids again when you tell them they don’t have to – its not a duty, its a joy. Telling them having kids isn’t important, will lead to them having them out of fun.

    Right now people are rebelling against duties- the survive paradigm.

  67. @Agathoklis
    @Ano4

    The love that a man and woman feel for each other is not possible for gay people because the ultimate actualisation of that love is giving birth to children which gays are unable to do.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    In this you are extremely right, such love is sanctified for it gives birth to a life, it upholds the very existence of humanity. Therefore the innermost core of love between man and woman is compassion. Such can not be said of homosexual relations.

    Theres a an esoteric tantric meaning, but oh well you dont want to hear about eastern religions, so I will pass.

  68. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4

    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism? Of course paganism in un organized form survived much longer among the Finnic peoples of the Northeastern Europe.

    Its a false meme that all culture drips down from elites or that they unilaterally choose the direction of culture. Often elites mimic the culture of lower classes, so that they could have some authenticity especially if the elite culture is seen as too effete and soft. You know that they could also have some street cred and not be just some pansy boys who were born with a silver spoon in a mouth. Some examples are tattoos, almost all modern music from blues to rock n roll and rap, especially the manner of speech.

    One excellent and major example is the rise of Christianity, the senatorial and patrician class opposed it for the longest.

    Im not saying that lower classes are conscious about their cultural power or that all culture rises among proletariat, I am just saying that things are never as simple as some would like. Im just saying that Truth is beyond all extremes.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!

    https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/54cac102674871890b57d0cf/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/image.jpg

    Replies: @Ano4, @Philip Owen, @Not Raul

    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism?

    Yes as a population Lithuanians have been the last to mass convert to Christianity. But Arkona was the last major religious center to fall.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!

    Agree. But I was only writing about higher forms of mythology, culture and religion.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    Agree. But I was only writing about higher forms of mythology, culture and religion
     
    The rise of Christianity?

    Yes as a population Lithuanians have been the last to mass convert to Christianity. But Arkona was the last major religious center to fall.

     

    To my understanding paganism as a living tradition survived among Estonians, Karelians, Mari and some other Finnic people all the way to the 19th century, maybe even to early 20th. For some reason Orthodox Church was much more permissible with such local traditions.

    Replies: @Ano4

  69. @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism?
     
    Yes as a population Lithuanians have been the last to mass convert to Christianity. But Arkona was the last major religious center to fall.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!
     
    Agree. But I was only writing about higher forms of mythology, culture and religion.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Agree. But I was only writing about higher forms of mythology, culture and religion

    The rise of Christianity?

    Yes as a population Lithuanians have been the last to mass convert to Christianity. But Arkona was the last major religious center to fall.

    To my understanding paganism as a living tradition survived among Estonians, Karelians, Mari and some other Finnic people all the way to the 19th century, maybe even to early 20th. For some reason Orthodox Church was much more permissible with such local traditions.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    The rise of Christianity?
     
    I think popular support to Christian faith among the slaves and the poor Roman citizens was mainly for social justice reasons. Moreover, since the very beginning Christianity infiltrated the elite strata of the Empire. First the intellectual class, then the bourgeois to end up gaining the political and military elite. In fact, the peasants arguably converted quite late (hence the names such as pagan and heathen). Finally, a lot of what is written on the subject is probably mythologizing propaganda made afterwards by the Church. I partially agree with the First Millennium Revesionist that what we think we know about the fall of the Antique Civilization and the beginning of the European Dark Ages is probably only partially correct.

    Some Mari are still practicing Paganism. But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @showmethereal

  70. I actually support women keeping their surnames. For the reason that my mom kept hers for a while, but then my dad changed our surnames (including mine) to a more Hungarian sounding one (the original was Danube Swabian), and then my mom also took that surname. I found that confusing and also ultimately pointless, since the children inherit the father’s name anyway. Another reason is that I have a daughter, and I’d find it weird if she changed her name. Tl;dr – I support women keeping their birth surnames because autism.

    One issue I have a firm opinion is that outside of Spain and Portugal etc. children should inherit the family name of the father. Divergence from that tradition would only result in confusion. I don’t like confusion. In other words, because autism.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @reiner Tor

    Marilyn vos Savant had the idea that mothers' names should be passed to the daughters. Fathers' to the sons.

    What is very confusing is if you might vaguely know a woman's name, like know it if you read it, but then she has changed her name because she's gotten married or divorced, and you need to meet her in her office, in a building you are not very familiar with. And that she's changed her name is a total surprise to you.

    Still, I appreciate hyphenated names as an honest signal of feminism (mostly, some are from conditions of old wills). It seems to me that many Jewish people have hyphenated names.

    Replies: @anonymous coward

  71. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    Modern and historical Islamic societies are quite full of homosexual activities.

    They are just being hypocritical about it.
     
    I know, still you very well understood what I meant. In many Islamic societies homosexuals are threatened by capital punishment, and thats what I meant by one extreme.

    Ps. Is trannyposting now your thing or what?

    Replies: @Ano4

    In many Islamic societies homosexuals are threatened by capital punishment,

    Depends on the school of Fikh and is rarely enforced, except in extreme Wahhabite strongholds (Taliban, ISIS). In Iran death sentence is usually pronounced only in case of pedophilia and rape.

    Ps. Is trannyposting now your thing or what?

    Don’t think the guy’s a trans, he’s some Yemeni refugee blogger in Saudi Arabia who decided that it was a good idea to defend LGBTQ rights in KSA online. Of course he got imprisoned, fined and expelled back to Yemen. In short, he was a low IQ queer who got himself into idiotic trouble. Unless he expects that he will get a refugee status in the West for his pain.

    Speaking of trannies, IFAIK in Iran the consensus of the Twelver Islamic Jurists was in favor of authorizing sex reassignment for people with strong gender dysphoria and confused sexual identity. They actually subsidize the operation.

    https://qz.com/889548/everyone-treated-me-like-a-saint-in-iran-theres-only-one-way-to-survive-as-a-transgender-person/

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    Depends on the school of Fikh and is rarely enforced, except in extreme Wahhabite strongholds (Taliban, ISIS). In Iran death sentence is usually pronounced only in case of pedophilia and rape.
     
    I thought that according to every Sunni Madhab homosexuals should be executed and there are numerous Muslim countries where they get executed. Same with those who are born into Islam and become apostates. Though maybe Hanafis have milder opinion or something.

    Speaking of trannies, IFAIK in Iran the consensus of the Twelver Islamic Jurists was in favor of authorizing sex reassignment for people with strong gender dysphoria and confused sexual identity. They actually subsidize the operation.
     
    Theres an interesting documentary about that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_Like_Others

    It seems that many of the passive homosexuals in Iran are forced to become transgenders, because homosexuality is not allowed in Iran, but transsexuality is.

    Did you know that Shias believe in free will unlike the Sunnis?

    Replies: @Ano4

  72. @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    In many Islamic societies homosexuals are threatened by capital punishment,
     
    Depends on the school of Fikh and is rarely enforced, except in extreme Wahhabite strongholds (Taliban, ISIS). In Iran death sentence is usually pronounced only in case of pedophilia and rape.

    Ps. Is trannyposting now your thing or what?
     
    Don't think the guy's a trans, he's some Yemeni refugee blogger in Saudi Arabia who decided that it was a good idea to defend LGBTQ rights in KSA online. Of course he got imprisoned, fined and expelled back to Yemen. In short, he was a low IQ queer who got himself into idiotic trouble. Unless he expects that he will get a refugee status in the West for his pain.

    Speaking of trannies, IFAIK in Iran the consensus of the Twelver Islamic Jurists was in favor of authorizing sex reassignment for people with strong gender dysphoria and confused sexual identity. They actually subsidize the operation.

    https://qz.com/889548/everyone-treated-me-like-a-saint-in-iran-theres-only-one-way-to-survive-as-a-transgender-person/

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Depends on the school of Fikh and is rarely enforced, except in extreme Wahhabite strongholds (Taliban, ISIS). In Iran death sentence is usually pronounced only in case of pedophilia and rape.

    I thought that according to every Sunni Madhab homosexuals should be executed and there are numerous Muslim countries where they get executed. Same with those who are born into Islam and become apostates. Though maybe Hanafis have milder opinion or something.

    Speaking of trannies, IFAIK in Iran the consensus of the Twelver Islamic Jurists was in favor of authorizing sex reassignment for people with strong gender dysphoria and confused sexual identity. They actually subsidize the operation.

    Theres an interesting documentary about that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_Like_Others

    It seems that many of the passive homosexuals in Iran are forced to become transgenders, because homosexuality is not allowed in Iran, but transsexuality is.

    Did you know that Shias believe in free will unlike the Sunnis?

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    I thought that according to every Sunni Madhab homosexuals should be executed and there are numerous Muslim countries where they get executed.
     
    In the Qur'an itself it is only said to expell the male and female homosexuals from the community to avoid being punished by Allah as Sodom was punished. I don't think that there are many executions of gay people outside Wahhabi dominated societies. Lesbians are often ignored as female homosexuality is seen as something not serious.

    Bottom line, according to what I heard from Muslim acquaintances, if you don't brag about it and don't involve yourself in militancy, then you can be as gay as a bug. In the majority of
    Islamic societies, people would despise the homosexuals, but they usually would not hurt them if they behave themselves.

    Did you know that Shias believe in free will unlike the Sunnis?
     
    Qadar vs Jabar is a very complicated topic in Islamic thought. The Shiah believe that the human affairs are somewhat in between the predestination and the free will. The Sunnis believe in predestination. Only the Mutazilites believed in a complete free will. Below is a wrap up on the topic from the Batiniyyah.

    https://www.iis.ac.uk/free-will-isma-ili-shi-sm
  73. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    Agree. But I was only writing about higher forms of mythology, culture and religion
     
    The rise of Christianity?

    Yes as a population Lithuanians have been the last to mass convert to Christianity. But Arkona was the last major religious center to fall.

     

    To my understanding paganism as a living tradition survived among Estonians, Karelians, Mari and some other Finnic people all the way to the 19th century, maybe even to early 20th. For some reason Orthodox Church was much more permissible with such local traditions.

    Replies: @Ano4

    The rise of Christianity?

    I think popular support to Christian faith among the slaves and the poor Roman citizens was mainly for social justice reasons. Moreover, since the very beginning Christianity infiltrated the elite strata of the Empire. First the intellectual class, then the bourgeois to end up gaining the political and military elite. In fact, the peasants arguably converted quite late (hence the names such as pagan and heathen). Finally, a lot of what is written on the subject is probably mythologizing propaganda made afterwards by the Church. I partially agree with the First Millennium Revesionist that what we think we know about the fall of the Antique Civilization and the beginning of the European Dark Ages is probably only partially correct.

    Some Mari are still practicing Paganism. But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    Some Mari are still practicing Paganism. But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.
     
    You should read some books about the topic, ancient Indo-Europeans had an extensive contact with ancient Finnic peoples. Aryans were the people of steppes and Finns inhabited the forests that bordered them. Even the word Mari is ancient Aryan loan and means a man, and their word for god jumo or juma comes from dyumat which means bright and is epithet of Indra. But unlike wandering ancient Aryans, Mari people stayed at the same place, and have stayed more or less till to the modern era.

    I recommend Michael Witzels and Asko Parpolas books, Witzel is better, but Parpola has often interesting theories and insights, when Witzel on the other hand is more cautious.

    I am currently reading this book by Parpola
    The Roots of Hinduism: The Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization
    Theres lots of knowledge about the contacts of the Finnic peoples with the ancient Aryans.



    Only in the Latin west Pagan meant someone who was heathen, in the east heathens were called by the name of Hellenes, really Im not joking, such was the situation in the early Christian Greek speaking east. And in the east Christianity spread like a wildfire among urban proletariat and slaves, the west lacked hadnt so many metropolises, but the situation was similar in Carthage and Rome. In the 4th century there was a constant struggle between Christian emperors and traditionalist senatorial class, which fought by every means possible that they could continue their pagan traditions and sacrifices. Numerous times emperors ordered the removal of the altar of victory from the senate and again and again senators tried to bring it back, only in the first years of 5th century the struggle ended. Also the Christianity spread at much slower rate in the Latin west so no wonder if some Gaullish peasants were still heathens in 5th century. In the early 5th century practically majority of Asia Minor, Egypt and Syria were Christian. Lots of the writers of learned class were pagans in the 4th century, even quite few in the 5th. After all the pagan Platonic academy and neo-platonic philosophy were still going strong.

    First Millennium Revesionist
     
    Some wacko? I read one of his articles and that guy is off the tracks, both in his mind and in his writings.

    Replies: @Ano4

    , @showmethereal
    @Ano4

    Actually for the first several decades Christianity was seen simply as a Jewish sect. It was managed in the Roman Empire as such. It was only when the Roman persecution acts the Jews ramped up that the now mainly Gentiles broke off and formed a "church".

  74. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    Depends on the school of Fikh and is rarely enforced, except in extreme Wahhabite strongholds (Taliban, ISIS). In Iran death sentence is usually pronounced only in case of pedophilia and rape.
     
    I thought that according to every Sunni Madhab homosexuals should be executed and there are numerous Muslim countries where they get executed. Same with those who are born into Islam and become apostates. Though maybe Hanafis have milder opinion or something.

    Speaking of trannies, IFAIK in Iran the consensus of the Twelver Islamic Jurists was in favor of authorizing sex reassignment for people with strong gender dysphoria and confused sexual identity. They actually subsidize the operation.
     
    Theres an interesting documentary about that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_Like_Others

    It seems that many of the passive homosexuals in Iran are forced to become transgenders, because homosexuality is not allowed in Iran, but transsexuality is.

    Did you know that Shias believe in free will unlike the Sunnis?

    Replies: @Ano4

    I thought that according to every Sunni Madhab homosexuals should be executed and there are numerous Muslim countries where they get executed.

    In the Qur’an itself it is only said to expell the male and female homosexuals from the community to avoid being punished by Allah as Sodom was punished. I don’t think that there are many executions of gay people outside Wahhabi dominated societies. Lesbians are often ignored as female homosexuality is seen as something not serious.

    Bottom line, according to what I heard from Muslim acquaintances, if you don’t brag about it and don’t involve yourself in militancy, then you can be as gay as a bug. In the majority of
    Islamic societies, people would despise the homosexuals, but they usually would not hurt them if they behave themselves.

    Did you know that Shias believe in free will unlike the Sunnis?

    Qadar vs Jabar is a very complicated topic in Islamic thought. The Shiah believe that the human affairs are somewhat in between the predestination and the free will. The Sunnis believe in predestination. Only the Mutazilites believed in a complete free will. Below is a wrap up on the topic from the Batiniyyah.

    https://www.iis.ac.uk/free-will-isma-ili-shi-sm

  75. @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    The rise of Christianity?
     
    I think popular support to Christian faith among the slaves and the poor Roman citizens was mainly for social justice reasons. Moreover, since the very beginning Christianity infiltrated the elite strata of the Empire. First the intellectual class, then the bourgeois to end up gaining the political and military elite. In fact, the peasants arguably converted quite late (hence the names such as pagan and heathen). Finally, a lot of what is written on the subject is probably mythologizing propaganda made afterwards by the Church. I partially agree with the First Millennium Revesionist that what we think we know about the fall of the Antique Civilization and the beginning of the European Dark Ages is probably only partially correct.

    Some Mari are still practicing Paganism. But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @showmethereal

    Some Mari are still practicing Paganism. But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.

    You should read some books about the topic, ancient Indo-Europeans had an extensive contact with ancient Finnic peoples. Aryans were the people of steppes and Finns inhabited the forests that bordered them. Even the word Mari is ancient Aryan loan and means a man, and their word for god jumo or juma comes from dyumat which means bright and is epithet of Indra. But unlike wandering ancient Aryans, Mari people stayed at the same place, and have stayed more or less till to the modern era.

    I recommend Michael Witzels and Asko Parpolas books, Witzel is better, but Parpola has often interesting theories and insights, when Witzel on the other hand is more cautious.

    I am currently reading this book by Parpola
    The Roots of Hinduism: The Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization
    Theres lots of knowledge about the contacts of the Finnic peoples with the ancient Aryans.

    Only in the Latin west Pagan meant someone who was heathen, in the east heathens were called by the name of Hellenes, really Im not joking, such was the situation in the early Christian Greek speaking east. And in the east Christianity spread like a wildfire among urban proletariat and slaves, the west lacked hadnt so many metropolises, but the situation was similar in Carthage and Rome. In the 4th century there was a constant struggle between Christian emperors and traditionalist senatorial class, which fought by every means possible that they could continue their pagan traditions and sacrifices. Numerous times emperors ordered the removal of the altar of victory from the senate and again and again senators tried to bring it back, only in the first years of 5th century the struggle ended. Also the Christianity spread at much slower rate in the Latin west so no wonder if some Gaullish peasants were still heathens in 5th century. In the early 5th century practically majority of Asia Minor, Egypt and Syria were Christian. Lots of the writers of learned class were pagans in the 4th century, even quite few in the 5th. After all the pagan Platonic academy and neo-platonic philosophy were still going strong.

    First Millennium Revesionist

    Some wacko? I read one of his articles and that guy is off the tracks, both in his mind and in his writings.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    You should read some books about the topic
     
    You don't say....

    😄

    Anyway, have a nice fight against this army of Strawmen!

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  76. @AltanBakshi
    @songbird


    It is an interesting philosophical question whether gays on the Right should be tolerated. I think the flamboyant ones like Milo should not be tolerated. I also think that gay organizations, like the sinister-sounding Log Cabin Republicans, should not be tolerated.
     
    Yes its quite interesting question. When I was younger I thought that all gays are categorically bad, but now I think that clearly there have been some true men of the tradition and right who have been gays, like Frederik the Great and some others, possibly even Julius Caesar. So maybe the main problem is not the homosexuality itself, but narcissist attitude towards the society. Mistaken view that the society should revolve around ones marginal sexual identity.

    Still society is a one thing and religion another. They are not welcome to Buddhism.

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist

    Frederik the Great

    That mincing warmonger who said that he would be happy to invite Muslims and Jews to live in his country is one of the worst examples you could have picked.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Kent Nationalist

    Really? Thats quite strange because during Fredericks rule Jews were not emancipated in Prussia and there were many discriminatory laws against them.

  77. @Nodwink
    The awful truth is that people's views are largely determined by the quality of content their minds ingest (garbage in, garbage out). This is why propaganda works; it is disturbingly easy to brainwash the population.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Absolutely correct.. That’s why Hollywood is the most dangerous weapon their is. People are what they consume.

  78. @Wency
    @Rich

    That sounds wrong to me. I live in a very conservative area in the Deep South, and I notice that even younger people (meaning younger than 40) who regard homosexuality as a sin still often say things like "Well I don't know that the government should be able to tell anyone they can or can't get married."

    But to be clear, the percentage of the population that thinks gay marriage is an important issue, that feels strongly about it being legal, is much less than 70%.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    I guess those young people aren’t reading “the good book”. The Apostle Simon Peter called Lot “righteous” because he was vexed every day by the “values” in Sodom and Gomorrah

  79. @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    The rise of Christianity?
     
    I think popular support to Christian faith among the slaves and the poor Roman citizens was mainly for social justice reasons. Moreover, since the very beginning Christianity infiltrated the elite strata of the Empire. First the intellectual class, then the bourgeois to end up gaining the political and military elite. In fact, the peasants arguably converted quite late (hence the names such as pagan and heathen). Finally, a lot of what is written on the subject is probably mythologizing propaganda made afterwards by the Church. I partially agree with the First Millennium Revesionist that what we think we know about the fall of the Antique Civilization and the beginning of the European Dark Ages is probably only partially correct.

    Some Mari are still practicing Paganism. But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @showmethereal

    Actually for the first several decades Christianity was seen simply as a Jewish sect. It was managed in the Roman Empire as such. It was only when the Roman persecution acts the Jews ramped up that the now mainly Gentiles broke off and formed a “church”.

  80. @Beckow
    @AaronB


    ...why would the population be so ok with it?
     
    The population is not ok with a lot of things that happen. It has to do with general Western misunderstanding of what 'democracy' means - it is not about the process, but about results. If the results are not what majority wants, then you don't have a democracy no matter how many mannequins you change or how much entertainment the process provides.

    Propaganda only works when it exploits preexisting trends.
     
    I generally agree, but the recognition of what the 'trends' are can get dicey. Modern 'woke' liberals (let's keep the label) believe that liberalising trends are in their favour, that any insecurity can be fixed with more liberalism. We all know liberals who will agree that the labor market is broken and that inequality is growing. But their solution is to 'legalise' all potential workers around the world, give them equality and rights - liberals claim that then all will be all ok. Right, they are simply numerically challenged. But try to tell them that the trend they pursue is nonsense on its face. That's where propaganda works in pushing a non-sensical trend that would collapse without it.

    Replies: @AaronB

    Yes, but I think Anatoly quoted that 70% of Americans support gay marriage or something like that.

    So we have to explain that. Some think the elites can simply push what they want (that’s dangerously close to blank slatism and I’m surprised to see that on an HBD blog).

    While I accept elite propaganda as an important factor I think its but one of many – and not the most important.

    That’s where propaganda works in pushing a non-sensical trend that would collapse without it.

    I think saying it would collapse without elites pushing it is too strong. But I agree elites are important in making trends survive.

    Just, the soil must be fertile. Perhaps the elites are the fertilizing agents. But with the wrong soil you can do nothing.

    I prefer to see yours and my explanation as compatible and not contradictory. We’re both getting at something true.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AaronB


    ...I prefer to see yours and my explanation as compatible and not contradictory.
     
    I agree. Issues can be described in different ways with none of the explanations binding. The problem I generally try to address is when one side (usually the elite) tries to prescribe its preferred agenda and shut off any alternative discussions. I get a strong sense that in the last few years in the West that has happened and is accelerating. That cannot be good for anybody.
  81. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    Some Mari are still practicing Paganism. But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.
     
    You should read some books about the topic, ancient Indo-Europeans had an extensive contact with ancient Finnic peoples. Aryans were the people of steppes and Finns inhabited the forests that bordered them. Even the word Mari is ancient Aryan loan and means a man, and their word for god jumo or juma comes from dyumat which means bright and is epithet of Indra. But unlike wandering ancient Aryans, Mari people stayed at the same place, and have stayed more or less till to the modern era.

    I recommend Michael Witzels and Asko Parpolas books, Witzel is better, but Parpola has often interesting theories and insights, when Witzel on the other hand is more cautious.

    I am currently reading this book by Parpola
    The Roots of Hinduism: The Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization
    Theres lots of knowledge about the contacts of the Finnic peoples with the ancient Aryans.



    Only in the Latin west Pagan meant someone who was heathen, in the east heathens were called by the name of Hellenes, really Im not joking, such was the situation in the early Christian Greek speaking east. And in the east Christianity spread like a wildfire among urban proletariat and slaves, the west lacked hadnt so many metropolises, but the situation was similar in Carthage and Rome. In the 4th century there was a constant struggle between Christian emperors and traditionalist senatorial class, which fought by every means possible that they could continue their pagan traditions and sacrifices. Numerous times emperors ordered the removal of the altar of victory from the senate and again and again senators tried to bring it back, only in the first years of 5th century the struggle ended. Also the Christianity spread at much slower rate in the Latin west so no wonder if some Gaullish peasants were still heathens in 5th century. In the early 5th century practically majority of Asia Minor, Egypt and Syria were Christian. Lots of the writers of learned class were pagans in the 4th century, even quite few in the 5th. After all the pagan Platonic academy and neo-platonic philosophy were still going strong.

    First Millennium Revesionist
     
    Some wacko? I read one of his articles and that guy is off the tracks, both in his mind and in his writings.

    Replies: @Ano4

    You should read some books about the topic

    You don’t say….

    😄

    Anyway, have a nice fight against this army of Strawmen!

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4

    Sorry if I sounded smug and offended you or something. Its just that Finnic languages have a huge amount of loan words from proto-Indoeuropean and ancient Balto-Slavic.

    Even their word for slave orja spelled orya, comes from the arya, meaning aryan, just like the sclaven and slave of Germanic languages comes from the ethnonym of Slavs.

    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Uralic/orja

    In Mongolian word for slave has been Khyatad/Хятад which also happens to mean Chinese...

    Replies: @Ano4

  82. @Kent Nationalist
    @AltanBakshi


    Frederik the Great
     
    That mincing warmonger who said that he would be happy to invite Muslims and Jews to live in his country is one of the worst examples you could have picked.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Really? Thats quite strange because during Fredericks rule Jews were not emancipated in Prussia and there were many discriminatory laws against them.

  83. @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    You should read some books about the topic
     
    You don't say....

    😄

    Anyway, have a nice fight against this army of Strawmen!

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Sorry if I sounded smug and offended you or something. Its just that Finnic languages have a huge amount of loan words from proto-Indoeuropean and ancient Balto-Slavic.

    Even their word for slave orja spelled orya, comes from the arya, meaning aryan, just like the sclaven and slave of Germanic languages comes from the ethnonym of Slavs.

    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Uralic/orja

    In Mongolian word for slave has been Khyatad/Хятад which also happens to mean Chinese…

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi

    I know all this.

    But what does it have to do with structures of myths and religions of Mari vs. what is left of Balto-Slavic pagan religion?

    What I wrote was that their religion is unrelated to what Balts and Slavs had. And you started about languages.

    I think your pony's galloping too fast Kalyanamitra.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  84. @AaronB
    @SIMP simp

    Thanks.

    Survive/Thrive seems to be spot on. I'm gonna read the whole thing later but I think this may be the key to understanding huge amounts of human behavior, perhaps everything important.

    If you are preoccupied with survival, you will prefer one set of behaviors and attitudes. If you feel that - in some sense - your survival is assured, you will devote yourself to a whole different set of activities.

    Its the difference between people who work for the future and those who take pleasure in the moment. People ruled by anxiety, and people ruled by confidence in some sense, even metaphysical confidence.

    This is a major theme in Buddhism - Buddhism tries to give you a kind of cosmic confidence, or trust in the universe, that frees you from the survive paradigm and shifts you to the thrive paradigm.

    I have encountered this idea in a bunch of different places lately, and it even began to explain a lot of the behavior of significant others in my life whose behavior had been maddeningly puzzling.

    Replies: @BlackFlag

    Americans have become more favorable to gay marriage during a time when living standards have declined and social tension has increased. Russians have become less supportive during a time when I think (90s to 2010s) their living standards have risen and social tensions have decreased. How does your theory explain that?

    • Replies: @AaronB
    @BlackFlag

    You are mistaking things improving with things being already good, like most people.

    Living standards right now in America are significantly higher than the 90s. Crime is significantly lower and the feeling of safety much higher. People are also much nicer and more polite.

    I remember the 90s well.

    Electronic entertainment is much more accessible and diverse, food is much better and high quality food much more accessible, and all sorts of consumer goods are cheap, accessible, and delivered fast through Amazon and the like.

    So, yes, things may be stagnating or slightly declining in the US, but they have reached an absurdly high, unprecedentedly high, base.

    People always focus on things getting better, rather than things being already good. Thats why some here think China is a better model than the US. From an extremely low base, China is getting better. But the US is already at an absurdly high base, and things can only stagnate or slightly reverse.

    We have to snap out of our obsession with movement as the only metric worth looking at. It comes from the economists obsession with "growth".

    But I would rather live in a steady-state economy that has no growth but was already at a high level, than in a country that was improving.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  85. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4

    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism? Of course paganism in un organized form survived much longer among the Finnic peoples of the Northeastern Europe.

    Its a false meme that all culture drips down from elites or that they unilaterally choose the direction of culture. Often elites mimic the culture of lower classes, so that they could have some authenticity especially if the elite culture is seen as too effete and soft. You know that they could also have some street cred and not be just some pansy boys who were born with a silver spoon in a mouth. Some examples are tattoos, almost all modern music from blues to rock n roll and rap, especially the manner of speech.

    One excellent and major example is the rise of Christianity, the senatorial and patrician class opposed it for the longest.

    Im not saying that lower classes are conscious about their cultural power or that all culture rises among proletariat, I am just saying that things are never as simple as some would like. Im just saying that Truth is beyond all extremes.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!

    https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/54cac102674871890b57d0cf/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/image.jpg

    Replies: @Ano4, @Philip Owen, @Not Raul

    The abilty of the Rothschilds vanished in a cocaine haze in the 1920’s and never recovered. The latest in the London branch lost huge fortunes on coal in Indonesia, oil in Iraq & Russia.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Philip Owen


    The abilty of the Rothschilds vanished in a cocaine haze in the 1920’s and never recovered
     
    .

    I have recently read somewhere that they had around 13 trillion under management through different financial vehicle and shell corporations. Is it just an urban legend?

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Philip Owen, @Bardon Kaldian

  86. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4

    Sorry if I sounded smug and offended you or something. Its just that Finnic languages have a huge amount of loan words from proto-Indoeuropean and ancient Balto-Slavic.

    Even their word for slave orja spelled orya, comes from the arya, meaning aryan, just like the sclaven and slave of Germanic languages comes from the ethnonym of Slavs.

    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Uralic/orja

    In Mongolian word for slave has been Khyatad/Хятад which also happens to mean Chinese...

    Replies: @Ano4

    I know all this.

    But what does it have to do with structures of myths and religions of Mari vs. what is left of Balto-Slavic pagan religion?

    What I wrote was that their religion is unrelated to what Balts and Slavs had. And you started about languages.

    I think your pony’s galloping too fast Kalyanamitra.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.
     
    In traditional Finnish paganism one of the most important gods is Perkele, who is same god as baltic Perkunas or Slavic Perun, nowadays it practically means same as чёрт. Its also highly possible that they have other gods who are derived from, or are highly influenced by ancient Balto-Slavic or Proto-Indo-European religion

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkele.

    But I must admit that I dont know almost anything about Mari paganism, still Estonian and Finnish paganism had much common with ancient European beliefs.

    I think your pony’s galloping too fast Kalyanamitra.

     

    You flatter me too much, its not proper to call lowly beings like me with such names, really!

    Replies: @Ano4

  87. @Philip Owen
    @AltanBakshi

    The abilty of the Rothschilds vanished in a cocaine haze in the 1920's and never recovered. The latest in the London branch lost huge fortunes on coal in Indonesia, oil in Iraq & Russia.

    Replies: @Ano4

    The abilty of the Rothschilds vanished in a cocaine haze in the 1920’s and never recovered

    .

    I have recently read somewhere that they had around 13 trillion under management through different financial vehicle and shell corporations. Is it just an urban legend?

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Ano4

    13 trillion would surprise me; but half as much wouldn’t be too shocking.

    , @Philip Owen
    @Ano4

    That's pure invention, like Putin's £100's Bn. Neither they nor Putin are broke but even so ...

    Replies: @Ano4

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Ano4


    Is it just an urban legend?
     
    Yes.
  88. @AltanBakshi
    I got the traditional Asian attitude, homosexuality should not be promoted and society should support heterosexual norms, but they can exist and they should be protected by the law from violence like rest of the people, but only as a silent minority in their own cultural ghetto. Thats the middle way between Islamic societies and current western madness.

    Replies: @Ano4, @songbird, @dfordoom

    I got the traditional Asian attitude, homosexuality should not be promoted and society should support heterosexual norms, but they can exist and they should be protected by the law from violence like rest of the people, but only as a silent minority in their own cultural ghetto.

    In practice that’s probably the only workable solution.

    • Agree: Ano4
  89. @4Dchessmaster
    As far as American "Conservatism" goes, it is nothing more than free markets and endless quagmires around the world. I have had a few conversations with some of these American Conservatives and I have never witnessed a people more dull and lacking in curiosity than them.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Not Raul

    The US doesn’t have many real Conservatives or real Leftists. They have Thatcherite right Liberals, Blairite left Liberals, and not much else, especially if you’re looking at people over 30 who aren’t potheads.

  90. @Ano4
    @Philip Owen


    The abilty of the Rothschilds vanished in a cocaine haze in the 1920’s and never recovered
     
    .

    I have recently read somewhere that they had around 13 trillion under management through different financial vehicle and shell corporations. Is it just an urban legend?

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Philip Owen, @Bardon Kaldian

    13 trillion would surprise me; but half as much wouldn’t be too shocking.

  91. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4

    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism? Of course paganism in un organized form survived much longer among the Finnic peoples of the Northeastern Europe.

    Its a false meme that all culture drips down from elites or that they unilaterally choose the direction of culture. Often elites mimic the culture of lower classes, so that they could have some authenticity especially if the elite culture is seen as too effete and soft. You know that they could also have some street cred and not be just some pansy boys who were born with a silver spoon in a mouth. Some examples are tattoos, almost all modern music from blues to rock n roll and rap, especially the manner of speech.

    One excellent and major example is the rise of Christianity, the senatorial and patrician class opposed it for the longest.

    Im not saying that lower classes are conscious about their cultural power or that all culture rises among proletariat, I am just saying that things are never as simple as some would like. Im just saying that Truth is beyond all extremes.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!

    https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/54cac102674871890b57d0cf/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/image.jpg

    Replies: @Ano4, @Philip Owen, @Not Raul

    Wasnt Lithuania last bastion of paganism? Of course paganism in un organized form survived much longer among the Finnic peoples of the Northeastern Europe.

    AFAIK, it was.

    Its a false meme that all culture drips down from elites or that they unilaterally choose the direction of culture. Often elites mimic the culture of lower classes, so that they could have some authenticity especially if the elite culture is seen as too effete and soft.

    That seems to have happened in Rurik’s Russia and post-Norman England.

    You know that they could also have some street cred and not be just some pansy boys who were born with a silver spoon in a mouth. Some examples are tattoos, almost all modern music from blues to rock n roll and rap, especially the manner of speech.

    Or rich kids with fake East Enders accents in the UK.

    Here is the Kate Rothschild with her rapper boyfriend, haha, for once Im delighted for such state of affairs!

    Me, too.

    • Thanks: AltanBakshi
  92. @Ano4
    @Philip Owen


    The abilty of the Rothschilds vanished in a cocaine haze in the 1920’s and never recovered
     
    .

    I have recently read somewhere that they had around 13 trillion under management through different financial vehicle and shell corporations. Is it just an urban legend?

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Philip Owen, @Bardon Kaldian

    That’s pure invention, like Putin’s £100’s Bn. Neither they nor Putin are broke but even so …

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Philip Owen

    I have never heard about VVP's 100 bn.

    How can we estimate the net worth of the elite families?

    My naive assumption would be that it is impossible to know how many assets they really control.

  93. @Philip Owen
    The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little. Paul may even be read as allowing women to divorce cruel husbands, although not to remarry and Christian men other than priests to have multiple wives. These rules would cause much more outrage in modern society than gay marriage. Modern marriage is about transfer of property, including children and an element of guardianship over the spouse when said spouse is incapacitated. The church lent its authority but it is not fundamentally an issue of Christian morality. Sex as a whole is suspect in the New Testament.

    That said, I campaigned for Civil Partnerships for single sex couples. I remain opposed to single sex adoption of children and 'marriage'. Marriage to me is bringing extra security to management of family relations. It's not just the law it's your own promise to yourself, wife, future children and community.

    It should be observed that many children in Russia are brought up by a single sex couple of mother and grandmother.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Kent Nationalist, @showmethereal, @JasonT, @216, @David Davenport

    “The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little. ”

    He only came to correct teaching… He didn’t come bringing a new religion. So yeah there were few references to marriage because it was simply foundational. He made clear it was between a man and a woman.

    “Paul may even be read as allowing women to divorce cruel husbands”

    Huh?

  94. @Kent Nationalist
    @Philip Owen

    They don't say much about bestiality or pederasty either. Some things you can know by reason and don't require revelation.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Didn’t need to talk about those things since they used the Torah and the Prophets as their reference for everything. The Roman Catholics buried that history – but that’s what it was.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    @showmethereal


    The Roman Catholics buried that history

     

    Incorrect. From the Catechism

    122 Indeed, "the economy of the Old Testament was deliberately so oriented that it should prepare for and declare in prophecy the coming of Christ, redeemer of all men."93 "Even though they contain matters imperfect and provisional,"94 the books of the Old Testament bear witness to the whole divine pedagogy of God's saving love: these writings "are a storehouse of sublime teaching on God and of sound wisdom on human life, as well as a wonderful treasury of prayers; in them, too, the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way."95

     

    Replies: @showmethereal

  95. @Philip Owen
    @Ano4

    That's pure invention, like Putin's £100's Bn. Neither they nor Putin are broke but even so ...

    Replies: @Ano4

    I have never heard about VVP’s 100 bn.

    How can we estimate the net worth of the elite families?

    My naive assumption would be that it is impossible to know how many assets they really control.

  96. @Philip Owen
    The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little. Paul may even be read as allowing women to divorce cruel husbands, although not to remarry and Christian men other than priests to have multiple wives. These rules would cause much more outrage in modern society than gay marriage. Modern marriage is about transfer of property, including children and an element of guardianship over the spouse when said spouse is incapacitated. The church lent its authority but it is not fundamentally an issue of Christian morality. Sex as a whole is suspect in the New Testament.

    That said, I campaigned for Civil Partnerships for single sex couples. I remain opposed to single sex adoption of children and 'marriage'. Marriage to me is bringing extra security to management of family relations. It's not just the law it's your own promise to yourself, wife, future children and community.

    It should be observed that many children in Russia are brought up by a single sex couple of mother and grandmother.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Kent Nationalist, @showmethereal, @JasonT, @216, @David Davenport

    Genesis 2:24
    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    Matthew 19:4-6
    4 And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female,
    5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they two shall be one flesh?
    6 Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.

    It seems pretty clear that the Bible (New and Old Testament) consider marriage to be between a man and a woman. Various other passages refer to homosexuality as an abomination.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @JasonT

    On this point we are in agreement.

  97. @reiner Tor
    I actually support women keeping their surnames. For the reason that my mom kept hers for a while, but then my dad changed our surnames (including mine) to a more Hungarian sounding one (the original was Danube Swabian), and then my mom also took that surname. I found that confusing and also ultimately pointless, since the children inherit the father's name anyway. Another reason is that I have a daughter, and I'd find it weird if she changed her name. Tl;dr - I support women keeping their birth surnames because autism.

    One issue I have a firm opinion is that outside of Spain and Portugal etc. children should inherit the family name of the father. Divergence from that tradition would only result in confusion. I don't like confusion. In other words, because autism.

    Replies: @songbird

    Marilyn vos Savant had the idea that mothers’ names should be passed to the daughters. Fathers’ to the sons.

    What is very confusing is if you might vaguely know a woman’s name, like know it if you read it, but then she has changed her name because she’s gotten married or divorced, and you need to meet her in her office, in a building you are not very familiar with. And that she’s changed her name is a total surprise to you.

    Still, I appreciate hyphenated names as an honest signal of feminism (mostly, some are from conditions of old wills). It seems to me that many Jewish people have hyphenated names.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    @songbird

    In Russia unchanged maiden names aren't a symbol of anything at all except her tolerance for government bureacracy. Thus, women in Russia sometimes change names upon marriage, but pretty much never during divorce. Leading to the moronic situation when her family name is different from her husband's but actually comes from her first starter marriage. Better she didn't change it at all.

  98. @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi

    I know all this.

    But what does it have to do with structures of myths and religions of Mari vs. what is left of Balto-Slavic pagan religion?

    What I wrote was that their religion is unrelated to what Balts and Slavs had. And you started about languages.

    I think your pony's galloping too fast Kalyanamitra.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.

    In traditional Finnish paganism one of the most important gods is Perkele, who is same god as baltic Perkunas or Slavic Perun, nowadays it practically means same as чёрт. Its also highly possible that they have other gods who are derived from, or are highly influenced by ancient Balto-Slavic or Proto-Indo-European religion

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkele.

    But I must admit that I dont know almost anything about Mari paganism, still Estonian and Finnish paganism had much common with ancient European beliefs.

    I think your pony’s galloping too fast Kalyanamitra.

    You flatter me too much, its not proper to call lowly beings like me with such names, really!

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi

    You are absolutely correct about Finno-Ugric cultures interacting with Aryan ones since time immemorial. That is normal, they were neighbors.

    Yes Thor, Taranis, Perun, Perkunas and Perkele have the same mythology behind them. And they do because Esti and Fins have been directly in contact with the Aryan Paganism that has been most probably structured under the Unetice culture. But the native Finno-Ugric tradition of the Mari or the Kalevala of the Karelians (the Fins adopted it from the Orthodox Karelian populations that have lived under Novgorod Rus domination) are markedly different from anything Indo-European cultures have produced.

    It is even more so the case with Saami shamanism, which still exists today. Basically the Aryan influence on Finno-Ugric people was limited. I have already posted on the AK blog about the potential connection of the Akozino-Ananino Finno-Ugric populations with the Hun, Turk, modern Finnish, Scandinavian and even Balto-Slavic ethnogenesis, so I would not repeat myself.

    Suffice to say that the Akozino-Ananino and before them Seima-Turbino cultural phenomena had a deep and long lasting impact on the Indo-European cultures. My personal opinion is that Odinism and Seidr might have direct Finno-Ugric roots stretching all the way back to Siberia and Urals. I have no proof for that, but this is the conclusion I come up with after reading and thinking about it for some time.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

  99. @Europe Europa
    It's hilarious that the Fidesz MEP who apparently drafted the new Hungarian constitution including the "marriage is between a man and a woman" line was arrested at a gay orgy in Brussels for violating the lock down rules a few days ago.

    Apparently he was vocally anti-gay in his public life, yet is clearly a raving homosexual. The irony is I bet he would deny being gay and probably doesn't even perceive himself as a homosexual.

    Makes one wonder how commonplace that sort of thing is, someone who clearly engages in homosexual activity but has so much cognitive dissonance that they still consider themselves straight?

    Replies: @Shortsword, @Anatoly Karlin, @Bardon Kaldian, @reiner Tor

    he was vocally anti-gay in his public life

    That’s an exaggeration, as he never said anything about gays as such. He opposed gay marriage. I fail to see why a gay person couldn’t be opposed to the institution of gay marriage. There are heterosexuals opposed to any kind of marriage, after all.

  100. @showmethereal
    @Kent Nationalist

    Didn't need to talk about those things since they used the Torah and the Prophets as their reference for everything. The Roman Catholics buried that history - but that's what it was.

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist

    The Roman Catholics buried that history

    Incorrect. From the Catechism

    122 Indeed, “the economy of the Old Testament was deliberately so oriented that it should prepare for and declare in prophecy the coming of Christ, redeemer of all men.”93 “Even though they contain matters imperfect and provisional,”94 the books of the Old Testament bear witness to the whole divine pedagogy of God’s saving love: these writings “are a storehouse of sublime teaching on God and of sound wisdom on human life, as well as a wonderful treasury of prayers; in them, too, the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way.”95

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Kent Nationalist

    Most Catholics have no clue about any of that.

    And I was talking specifically about the practice before the Roman Catholics existed.

  101. @songbird
    @reiner Tor

    Marilyn vos Savant had the idea that mothers' names should be passed to the daughters. Fathers' to the sons.

    What is very confusing is if you might vaguely know a woman's name, like know it if you read it, but then she has changed her name because she's gotten married or divorced, and you need to meet her in her office, in a building you are not very familiar with. And that she's changed her name is a total surprise to you.

    Still, I appreciate hyphenated names as an honest signal of feminism (mostly, some are from conditions of old wills). It seems to me that many Jewish people have hyphenated names.

    Replies: @anonymous coward

    In Russia unchanged maiden names aren’t a symbol of anything at all except her tolerance for government bureacracy. Thus, women in Russia sometimes change names upon marriage, but pretty much never during divorce. Leading to the moronic situation when her family name is different from her husband’s but actually comes from her first starter marriage. Better she didn’t change it at all.

  102. @BlackFlag
    @AaronB

    Americans have become more favorable to gay marriage during a time when living standards have declined and social tension has increased. Russians have become less supportive during a time when I think (90s to 2010s) their living standards have risen and social tensions have decreased. How does your theory explain that?

    Replies: @AaronB

    You are mistaking things improving with things being already good, like most people.

    Living standards right now in America are significantly higher than the 90s. Crime is significantly lower and the feeling of safety much higher. People are also much nicer and more polite.

    I remember the 90s well.

    Electronic entertainment is much more accessible and diverse, food is much better and high quality food much more accessible, and all sorts of consumer goods are cheap, accessible, and delivered fast through Amazon and the like.

    So, yes, things may be stagnating or slightly declining in the US, but they have reached an absurdly high, unprecedentedly high, base.

    People always focus on things getting better, rather than things being already good. Thats why some here think China is a better model than the US. From an extremely low base, China is getting better. But the US is already at an absurdly high base, and things can only stagnate or slightly reverse.

    We have to snap out of our obsession with movement as the only metric worth looking at. It comes from the economists obsession with “growth”.

    But I would rather live in a steady-state economy that has no growth but was already at a high level, than in a country that was improving.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @AaronB


    Electronic entertainment is much more accessible and diverse, food is much better and high quality food much more accessible, and all sorts of consumer goods are cheap, accessible, and delivered fast through Amazon and the like.
     
    What an ideal pleb, just concentrating on diversions. Its true that nowadays people have more cheap electronics devices and bad quality mass produced clothing, but its much harder for Americans to buy a house, study cheap in good university, or establish a family than it was for the Americans of the past generations. What matters more in the end?

    Even Francis Fukuyama acknowledges this fact in his excellent 2012 article "the future of history," which sadly is beyond paywall.
    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2012-01-01/future-history
    Foreign Affairs was still excellent magazine decade ago, now its one aggressive liberal zombie journal among many others. Oh well at least we still have National Interest.

    You cant deny that you could do much more with the minimum wage in the 60s or 70s than you can do in nowadays America. But I understand why you support establishment, I would too if I would be a Jew or Indian in America who cant think outside of the box. After all they truly benefit from current trends in the America unlike the original American volk...
    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/income.gif

    It irritates me when you think that you are somehow independent thinker, okay you are sometimes quite independent thinker but what actually irritates me is your thinking that out of the box ideas are somehow qualitatively better than more common ideas. Truly independent thinkers dont care about such matters, they just think if the idea is good or not, or that if idea would work in some specific circumstances under some conditions or then not. Rarity or obscurity of some idea does not make idea qualitatively better. Its archetypical mode of snow flake thinking that differences are automatically elevated above other considerations, or that being different is its own value. If you truly want to be an independent thinker you should liberate yourself from such notions, as long as you think by such means, so long you are constrained in relation to some other, just like millions of others snowflakes. Sorry for bad English, I hope that I could convey my philosophical message to you, who knows what small sparkle will liberate your energies and Chakras so that you could awaken to your potential.

    Replies: @AaronB

  103. @AaronB
    @BlackFlag

    You are mistaking things improving with things being already good, like most people.

    Living standards right now in America are significantly higher than the 90s. Crime is significantly lower and the feeling of safety much higher. People are also much nicer and more polite.

    I remember the 90s well.

    Electronic entertainment is much more accessible and diverse, food is much better and high quality food much more accessible, and all sorts of consumer goods are cheap, accessible, and delivered fast through Amazon and the like.

    So, yes, things may be stagnating or slightly declining in the US, but they have reached an absurdly high, unprecedentedly high, base.

    People always focus on things getting better, rather than things being already good. Thats why some here think China is a better model than the US. From an extremely low base, China is getting better. But the US is already at an absurdly high base, and things can only stagnate or slightly reverse.

    We have to snap out of our obsession with movement as the only metric worth looking at. It comes from the economists obsession with "growth".

    But I would rather live in a steady-state economy that has no growth but was already at a high level, than in a country that was improving.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Electronic entertainment is much more accessible and diverse, food is much better and high quality food much more accessible, and all sorts of consumer goods are cheap, accessible, and delivered fast through Amazon and the like.

    What an ideal pleb, just concentrating on diversions. Its true that nowadays people have more cheap electronics devices and bad quality mass produced clothing, but its much harder for Americans to buy a house, study cheap in good university, or establish a family than it was for the Americans of the past generations. What matters more in the end?

    Even Francis Fukuyama acknowledges this fact in his excellent 2012 article "the future of history," which sadly is beyond paywall.
    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2012-01-01/future-history
    Foreign Affairs was still excellent magazine decade ago, now its one aggressive liberal zombie journal among many others. Oh well at least we still have National Interest.

    You cant deny that you could do much more with the minimum wage in the 60s or 70s than you can do in nowadays America. But I understand why you support establishment, I would too if I would be a Jew or Indian in America who cant think outside of the box. After all they truly benefit from current trends in the America unlike the original American volk…
    It irritates me when you think that you are somehow independent thinker, okay you are sometimes quite independent thinker but what actually irritates me is your thinking that out of the box ideas are somehow qualitatively better than more common ideas. Truly independent thinkers dont care about such matters, they just think if the idea is good or not, or that if idea would work in some specific circumstances under some conditions or then not. Rarity or obscurity of some idea does not make idea qualitatively better. Its archetypical mode of snow flake thinking that differences are automatically elevated above other considerations, or that being different is its own value. If you truly want to be an independent thinker you should liberate yourself from such notions, as long as you think by such means, so long you are constrained in relation to some other, just like millions of others snowflakes. Sorry for bad English, I hope that I could convey my philosophical message to you, who knows what small sparkle will liberate your energies and Chakras so that you could awaken to your potential.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    @AltanBakshi

    You are certainly correct about that. In some ways life in Almeria has become much harder and much worse. I myself am a huge critic of inequality in America and the trends you describe.

    I sm not at all a supporter of the American establishment culture - I have no use for Woke culture, and am a fierce critic of the American obsession with work and competition, the opposition to pleasure, the obsession with technology, the opposition to free healthcare, poor social welfare, and a million other things.

    I merely think, for the time being, America is still better than, more free and dynamic then, say, China, or Iran. But do not mistake me for a supporter of American culture.

    Back to the question of whether life has gotten harder, the things that make your day to day life easy and pleasurable, have gotten better, while the macro trends have gotten worse. Its harder to buy a house, but you can buy tons of cheap electronics to keep you entertained.

    I remember when buying a very basic TV, with a few channels, was a Big Deal for an average family. Now, the poorest households in the ghetto can afford flat screen 50 inch high def TVs with thousands of entertainment options. Video game quality and diversity has exploded.

    I would argue that these things have softened life - contributed to a feeling of safety and security, prosperity and ease - more than not being able to buy a house has contributed to a feeling of insecurity. And thus is evident, to me, in the softening of manners and the reduction in aggression and crime.

    You will hate me, but cannot help myself, and must introduce a paradox here:) Actually, the reduction in social mobility in America may have contributing to relaxing the constant feeling of strain and competition people used to live under. Lack of social mobility, by lessening competition, lessens anxiety, and lessens strain, and increases satisfaction with ones state, which leads to happiness.


    Truly independent thinkers dont care about such matters, they just think if the idea is good or not, or that if idea would work in some specific circumstances under some conditions or then not
     
    .

    Yep, I agree with this. And I accept I am sometimes too prone to find the unconventional idea, but I think you are overstating it. There are plenty of conventional ideas I support.

    But I find reality stranger and more uncanny, more refractory and many sided, than any simplifying scheme which has congealed into "convention". Its not just that people are dull and unimaginative, but that convention has to be an oversimplification by nature because it the way a community agrees to communicate about the basic things in life. In that context, the full nuance and complexity of a situation is not important.

    Its the task of thoughtful people, when sitting in their armchair before a cozy fire with a glass of Sherry or Port, to bring out the full nuance of a situation. And what will emerge must be, "unconventional".

    I am, also, as I have said, a "dialectical" thinker. I dont take sides. I see truth in every position.

    This may shock you, but when I first came onto this website I was a vocal critic of Jews and America. But as this website shifted to truly stupid and unthinking, and truly vicious, antisemitism, I began to present the other side of the equation.

    In a society of people who push extreme, unconventional ideas, my dialectic turn of mind would lead me to see that as one sided excess, and to counter with normal ideas. If I was hanging out with Woke people, I'd defend moderate racism, for instance. Hanging out with extreme racists, I defend racial tolerance.

    But I understand why you support establishment, I would too if I would be a Jew or Indian in
     
    Jews and Hindus are a selected, elite group in America that have an unusually small prole class (although there are plenty of working class Jews and Hindus). You cant compare them to the mass of White Americans, who represent the full range of human types in normal proportions.

    Believe me, elite Whites are doing extremely well for themselves and are an extremely confident and even arrogant group.

    Its true that recent economic developments have disadvantaged the White lower classes, and I am very opposed to this and believe social policy will have no choice but to address this issue, as its largely the result of technological developments that we have for too long pretended didn't exist - and still pretend.

    But even so, lower class Americans have it in every way better than lower class Chibese or Iranians, say. Yes, they have reason to complain and agitate for reform, and are being treated with indefensible shabbiness, but their system is coming through for them much better than certain others.
  104. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4


    But their religious beliefs have nothing to do with the Old European Paganism that under its manifold varieties spanned the whole Indo-European realm.
     
    In traditional Finnish paganism one of the most important gods is Perkele, who is same god as baltic Perkunas or Slavic Perun, nowadays it practically means same as чёрт. Its also highly possible that they have other gods who are derived from, or are highly influenced by ancient Balto-Slavic or Proto-Indo-European religion

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkele.

    But I must admit that I dont know almost anything about Mari paganism, still Estonian and Finnish paganism had much common with ancient European beliefs.

    I think your pony’s galloping too fast Kalyanamitra.

     

    You flatter me too much, its not proper to call lowly beings like me with such names, really!

    Replies: @Ano4

    You are absolutely correct about Finno-Ugric cultures interacting with Aryan ones since time immemorial. That is normal, they were neighbors.

    Yes Thor, Taranis, Perun, Perkunas and Perkele have the same mythology behind them. And they do because Esti and Fins have been directly in contact with the Aryan Paganism that has been most probably structured under the Unetice culture. But the native Finno-Ugric tradition of the Mari or the Kalevala of the Karelians (the Fins adopted it from the Orthodox Karelian populations that have lived under Novgorod Rus domination) are markedly different from anything Indo-European cultures have produced.

    It is even more so the case with Saami shamanism, which still exists today. Basically the Aryan influence on Finno-Ugric people was limited. I have already posted on the AK blog about the potential connection of the Akozino-Ananino Finno-Ugric populations with the Hun, Turk, modern Finnish, Scandinavian and even Balto-Slavic ethnogenesis, so I would not repeat myself.

    Suffice to say that the Akozino-Ananino and before them Seima-Turbino cultural phenomena had a deep and long lasting impact on the Indo-European cultures. My personal opinion is that Odinism and Seidr might have direct Finno-Ugric roots stretching all the way back to Siberia and Urals. I have no proof for that, but this is the conclusion I come up with after reading and thinking about it for some time.

    • Replies: @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4

    Well, well you seem to be much more knowledgeable about this topic than me, a nice surprise.

    But arent Karelians as a population very close to the Finns and only got separated from them when the Swedes conquered the Finland in the 13th century. At least their languages are very similar. Karelians lived near the Ilmen Slavs, long before their Christianization, so I would thing that they got some influences from the Slavic paganism.

    About the Mari I know extremely little, but to me their location near the border of forest and steppe, seems ideal for cultural cross-pollination with the ancient Aryans.


    Suffice to say that the Akozino-Ananino and before them Seima-Turbino cultural phenomena had a deep and long lasting impact on the Indo-European cultures. My personal opinion is that Odinism and Seidr might have direct Finno-Ugric roots stretching all the way back to Siberia and Urals. I have no proof for that, but this is the conclusion I come up with after reading and thinking about it for some time.
     
    How you came to that conclusion with Odinism?

    Seidr is an extremely interesting topic, sad that we know so little about it, and I know even less. The Tantric traditions probably didnt come out of nowhere, it would be nice to know if they had some kind of connection to Seidr of the Norse.

    It is even more so the case with Saami shamanism, which still exists today.
     
    Its my understanding that genuine Saami Shamanism has been moribund for almost a century now.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Philip Owen

  105. @AltanBakshi
    @AaronB


    Electronic entertainment is much more accessible and diverse, food is much better and high quality food much more accessible, and all sorts of consumer goods are cheap, accessible, and delivered fast through Amazon and the like.
     
    What an ideal pleb, just concentrating on diversions. Its true that nowadays people have more cheap electronics devices and bad quality mass produced clothing, but its much harder for Americans to buy a house, study cheap in good university, or establish a family than it was for the Americans of the past generations. What matters more in the end?

    Even Francis Fukuyama acknowledges this fact in his excellent 2012 article "the future of history," which sadly is beyond paywall.
    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2012-01-01/future-history
    Foreign Affairs was still excellent magazine decade ago, now its one aggressive liberal zombie journal among many others. Oh well at least we still have National Interest.

    You cant deny that you could do much more with the minimum wage in the 60s or 70s than you can do in nowadays America. But I understand why you support establishment, I would too if I would be a Jew or Indian in America who cant think outside of the box. After all they truly benefit from current trends in the America unlike the original American volk...
    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/income.gif

    It irritates me when you think that you are somehow independent thinker, okay you are sometimes quite independent thinker but what actually irritates me is your thinking that out of the box ideas are somehow qualitatively better than more common ideas. Truly independent thinkers dont care about such matters, they just think if the idea is good or not, or that if idea would work in some specific circumstances under some conditions or then not. Rarity or obscurity of some idea does not make idea qualitatively better. Its archetypical mode of snow flake thinking that differences are automatically elevated above other considerations, or that being different is its own value. If you truly want to be an independent thinker you should liberate yourself from such notions, as long as you think by such means, so long you are constrained in relation to some other, just like millions of others snowflakes. Sorry for bad English, I hope that I could convey my philosophical message to you, who knows what small sparkle will liberate your energies and Chakras so that you could awaken to your potential.

    Replies: @AaronB

    You are certainly correct about that. In some ways life in Almeria has become much harder and much worse. I myself am a huge critic of inequality in America and the trends you describe.

    I sm not at all a supporter of the American establishment culture – I have no use for Woke culture, and am a fierce critic of the American obsession with work and competition, the opposition to pleasure, the obsession with technology, the opposition to free healthcare, poor social welfare, and a million other things.

    I merely think, for the time being, America is still better than, more free and dynamic then, say, China, or Iran. But do not mistake me for a supporter of American culture.

    Back to the question of whether life has gotten harder, the things that make your day to day life easy and pleasurable, have gotten better, while the macro trends have gotten worse. Its harder to buy a house, but you can buy tons of cheap electronics to keep you entertained.

    I remember when buying a very basic TV, with a few channels, was a Big Deal for an average family. Now, the poorest households in the ghetto can afford flat screen 50 inch high def TVs with thousands of entertainment options. Video game quality and diversity has exploded.

    I would argue that these things have softened life – contributed to a feeling of safety and security, prosperity and ease – more than not being able to buy a house has contributed to a feeling of insecurity. And thus is evident, to me, in the softening of manners and the reduction in aggression and crime.

    You will hate me, but cannot help myself, and must introduce a paradox here:) Actually, the reduction in social mobility in America may have contributing to relaxing the constant feeling of strain and competition people used to live under. Lack of social mobility, by lessening competition, lessens anxiety, and lessens strain, and increases satisfaction with ones state, which leads to happiness.

    Truly independent thinkers dont care about such matters, they just think if the idea is good or not, or that if idea would work in some specific circumstances under some conditions or then not

    .

    Yep, I agree with this. And I accept I am sometimes too prone to find the unconventional idea, but I think you are overstating it. There are plenty of conventional ideas I support.

    But I find reality stranger and more uncanny, more refractory and many sided, than any simplifying scheme which has congealed into “convention”. Its not just that people are dull and unimaginative, but that convention has to be an oversimplification by nature because it the way a community agrees to communicate about the basic things in life. In that context, the full nuance and complexity of a situation is not important.

    Its the task of thoughtful people, when sitting in their armchair before a cozy fire with a glass of Sherry or Port, to bring out the full nuance of a situation. And what will emerge must be, “unconventional”.

    I am, also, as I have said, a “dialectical” thinker. I dont take sides. I see truth in every position.

    This may shock you, but when I first came onto this website I was a vocal critic of Jews and America. But as this website shifted to truly stupid and unthinking, and truly vicious, antisemitism, I began to present the other side of the equation.

    In a society of people who push extreme, unconventional ideas, my dialectic turn of mind would lead me to see that as one sided excess, and to counter with normal ideas. If I was hanging out with Woke people, I’d defend moderate racism, for instance. Hanging out with extreme racists, I defend racial tolerance.

    But I understand why you support establishment, I would too if I would be a Jew or Indian in

    Jews and Hindus are a selected, elite group in America that have an unusually small prole class (although there are plenty of working class Jews and Hindus). You cant compare them to the mass of White Americans, who represent the full range of human types in normal proportions.

    Believe me, elite Whites are doing extremely well for themselves and are an extremely confident and even arrogant group.

    Its true that recent economic developments have disadvantaged the White lower classes, and I am very opposed to this and believe social policy will have no choice but to address this issue, as its largely the result of technological developments that we have for too long pretended didn’t exist – and still pretend.

    But even so, lower class Americans have it in every way better than lower class Chibese or Iranians, say. Yes, they have reason to complain and agitate for reform, and are being treated with indefensible shabbiness, but their system is coming through for them much better than certain others.

  106. I personally don’t care either way about keeping or changing last names before or after marriage. Does that automatically put me in the not changing camp?

    About gays, transgender. I don’t care what consenting adults do with each other for sexual pleasure in the privacy of their bedrooms. Just don’t shout in my face about it hourly, daily. Like what all media and social media is doing. And don’t try to make it out like your weird fetishes are the norm.

    1%(gays or whatever) of the total doesn’t make you normal. 99%(normies) does.

  107. @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi

    You are absolutely correct about Finno-Ugric cultures interacting with Aryan ones since time immemorial. That is normal, they were neighbors.

    Yes Thor, Taranis, Perun, Perkunas and Perkele have the same mythology behind them. And they do because Esti and Fins have been directly in contact with the Aryan Paganism that has been most probably structured under the Unetice culture. But the native Finno-Ugric tradition of the Mari or the Kalevala of the Karelians (the Fins adopted it from the Orthodox Karelian populations that have lived under Novgorod Rus domination) are markedly different from anything Indo-European cultures have produced.

    It is even more so the case with Saami shamanism, which still exists today. Basically the Aryan influence on Finno-Ugric people was limited. I have already posted on the AK blog about the potential connection of the Akozino-Ananino Finno-Ugric populations with the Hun, Turk, modern Finnish, Scandinavian and even Balto-Slavic ethnogenesis, so I would not repeat myself.

    Suffice to say that the Akozino-Ananino and before them Seima-Turbino cultural phenomena had a deep and long lasting impact on the Indo-European cultures. My personal opinion is that Odinism and Seidr might have direct Finno-Ugric roots stretching all the way back to Siberia and Urals. I have no proof for that, but this is the conclusion I come up with after reading and thinking about it for some time.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi

    Well, well you seem to be much more knowledgeable about this topic than me, a nice surprise.

    But arent Karelians as a population very close to the Finns and only got separated from them when the Swedes conquered the Finland in the 13th century. At least their languages are very similar. Karelians lived near the Ilmen Slavs, long before their Christianization, so I would thing that they got some influences from the Slavic paganism.

    About the Mari I know extremely little, but to me their location near the border of forest and steppe, seems ideal for cultural cross-pollination with the ancient Aryans.

    Suffice to say that the Akozino-Ananino and before them Seima-Turbino cultural phenomena had a deep and long lasting impact on the Indo-European cultures. My personal opinion is that Odinism and Seidr might have direct Finno-Ugric roots stretching all the way back to Siberia and Urals. I have no proof for that, but this is the conclusion I come up with after reading and thinking about it for some time.

    How you came to that conclusion with Odinism?

    Seidr is an extremely interesting topic, sad that we know so little about it, and I know even less. The Tantric traditions probably didnt come out of nowhere, it would be nice to know if they had some kind of connection to Seidr of the Norse.

    It is even more so the case with Saami shamanism, which still exists today.

    Its my understanding that genuine Saami Shamanism has been moribund for almost a century now.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    @AltanBakshi


    How you came to that conclusion with Odinism?
     
    It's a complex topic, perhaps I will post something about it in the open thread. In short, a few centuries prior to common era, the Scandinavian cultural landscape that has formed during the Nordic Bronze age and early Iron Age has been radically altered.

    Prior to this change the Nordic European cultures followed the same trends as West and Central European ones. After that they seem to have acquired some novel and unexpected characteristics. This period is probably linked to the progressive settling of some novel population, gradually imposing itself as an elite.

    I believe that this population was linked to the Akozino Ananino (Akozino Malar) semi-nomadic warrior/trader culture that is usually classified among the Finno-Ugric ones. I think that these populations brought with them a type of Uralic or Siberian shamanism which through intermixing with the local mythology produced Odinism.

    https://bigenc.ru/archeology/text/3906599

    That would explain the Aesir vs Vanir war myth in Norse sagas, the orya etymology in Finno-Ugric languages and the prevalence of Y haplogroup N among the Norse, Balto-Slavic, Hun, early Turkic and of cause Magyar elites.

    Basically these Y haplogroup N Finno-Ugric people would have imposed themselves upon the Indo-European cultures of the Fenno-Scandia and the Baltic. Same people would have impacted Hun and Turkic ethnogenesis.

    As I wrote it is a complex topic.
    , @Philip Owen
    @AltanBakshi

    The Mordivins (the ones in Penza are referred to with an "i") are/recently were Finnish pagans but don't seem to have any gods, just nature spirits.

  108. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4

    Well, well you seem to be much more knowledgeable about this topic than me, a nice surprise.

    But arent Karelians as a population very close to the Finns and only got separated from them when the Swedes conquered the Finland in the 13th century. At least their languages are very similar. Karelians lived near the Ilmen Slavs, long before their Christianization, so I would thing that they got some influences from the Slavic paganism.

    About the Mari I know extremely little, but to me their location near the border of forest and steppe, seems ideal for cultural cross-pollination with the ancient Aryans.


    Suffice to say that the Akozino-Ananino and before them Seima-Turbino cultural phenomena had a deep and long lasting impact on the Indo-European cultures. My personal opinion is that Odinism and Seidr might have direct Finno-Ugric roots stretching all the way back to Siberia and Urals. I have no proof for that, but this is the conclusion I come up with after reading and thinking about it for some time.
     
    How you came to that conclusion with Odinism?

    Seidr is an extremely interesting topic, sad that we know so little about it, and I know even less. The Tantric traditions probably didnt come out of nowhere, it would be nice to know if they had some kind of connection to Seidr of the Norse.

    It is even more so the case with Saami shamanism, which still exists today.
     
    Its my understanding that genuine Saami Shamanism has been moribund for almost a century now.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Philip Owen

    How you came to that conclusion with Odinism?

    It’s a complex topic, perhaps I will post something about it in the open thread. In short, a few centuries prior to common era, the Scandinavian cultural landscape that has formed during the Nordic Bronze age and early Iron Age has been radically altered.

    Prior to this change the Nordic European cultures followed the same trends as West and Central European ones. After that they seem to have acquired some novel and unexpected characteristics. This period is probably linked to the progressive settling of some novel population, gradually imposing itself as an elite.

    I believe that this population was linked to the Akozino Ananino (Akozino Malar) semi-nomadic warrior/trader culture that is usually classified among the Finno-Ugric ones. I think that these populations brought with them a type of Uralic or Siberian shamanism which through intermixing with the local mythology produced Odinism.

    https://bigenc.ru/archeology/text/3906599

    That would explain the Aesir vs Vanir war myth in Norse sagas, the orya etymology in Finno-Ugric languages and the prevalence of Y haplogroup N among the Norse, Balto-Slavic, Hun, early Turkic and of cause Magyar elites.

    Basically these Y haplogroup N Finno-Ugric people would have imposed themselves upon the Indo-European cultures of the Fenno-Scandia and the Baltic. Same people would have impacted Hun and Turkic ethnogenesis.

    As I wrote it is a complex topic.

  109. @JasonT
    @Philip Owen

    Genesis 2:24
    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    Matthew 19:4-6
    4 And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female,
    5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they two shall be one flesh?
    6 Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.

    It seems pretty clear that the Bible (New and Old Testament) consider marriage to be between a man and a woman. Various other passages refer to homosexuality as an abomination.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    On this point we are in agreement.

  110. @AltanBakshi
    @Ano4

    Well, well you seem to be much more knowledgeable about this topic than me, a nice surprise.

    But arent Karelians as a population very close to the Finns and only got separated from them when the Swedes conquered the Finland in the 13th century. At least their languages are very similar. Karelians lived near the Ilmen Slavs, long before their Christianization, so I would thing that they got some influences from the Slavic paganism.

    About the Mari I know extremely little, but to me their location near the border of forest and steppe, seems ideal for cultural cross-pollination with the ancient Aryans.


    Suffice to say that the Akozino-Ananino and before them Seima-Turbino cultural phenomena had a deep and long lasting impact on the Indo-European cultures. My personal opinion is that Odinism and Seidr might have direct Finno-Ugric roots stretching all the way back to Siberia and Urals. I have no proof for that, but this is the conclusion I come up with after reading and thinking about it for some time.
     
    How you came to that conclusion with Odinism?

    Seidr is an extremely interesting topic, sad that we know so little about it, and I know even less. The Tantric traditions probably didnt come out of nowhere, it would be nice to know if they had some kind of connection to Seidr of the Norse.

    It is even more so the case with Saami shamanism, which still exists today.
     
    Its my understanding that genuine Saami Shamanism has been moribund for almost a century now.

    Replies: @Ano4, @Philip Owen

    The Mordivins (the ones in Penza are referred to with an “i”) are/recently were Finnish pagans but don’t seem to have any gods, just nature spirits.

  111. @AaronB
    @Beckow

    Yes, but I think Anatoly quoted that 70% of Americans support gay marriage or something like that.

    So we have to explain that. Some think the elites can simply push what they want (that's dangerously close to blank slatism and I'm surprised to see that on an HBD blog).

    While I accept elite propaganda as an important factor I think its but one of many - and not the most important.


    That’s where propaganda works in pushing a non-sensical trend that would collapse without it.
     
    I think saying it would collapse without elites pushing it is too strong. But I agree elites are important in making trends survive.

    Just, the soil must be fertile. Perhaps the elites are the fertilizing agents. But with the wrong soil you can do nothing.

    I prefer to see yours and my explanation as compatible and not contradictory. We're both getting at something true.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …I prefer to see yours and my explanation as compatible and not contradictory.

    I agree. Issues can be described in different ways with none of the explanations binding. The problem I generally try to address is when one side (usually the elite) tries to prescribe its preferred agenda and shut off any alternative discussions. I get a strong sense that in the last few years in the West that has happened and is accelerating. That cannot be good for anybody.

    • Agree: AaronB
  112. @Philip Owen
    The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little. Paul may even be read as allowing women to divorce cruel husbands, although not to remarry and Christian men other than priests to have multiple wives. These rules would cause much more outrage in modern society than gay marriage. Modern marriage is about transfer of property, including children and an element of guardianship over the spouse when said spouse is incapacitated. The church lent its authority but it is not fundamentally an issue of Christian morality. Sex as a whole is suspect in the New Testament.

    That said, I campaigned for Civil Partnerships for single sex couples. I remain opposed to single sex adoption of children and 'marriage'. Marriage to me is bringing extra security to management of family relations. It's not just the law it's your own promise to yourself, wife, future children and community.

    It should be observed that many children in Russia are brought up by a single sex couple of mother and grandmother.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Kent Nationalist, @showmethereal, @JasonT, @216, @David Davenport

    This is an old subversive argument I haven’t seen in a long, long time…

  113. @Philip Owen
    The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little. Paul may even be read as allowing women to divorce cruel husbands, although not to remarry and Christian men other than priests to have multiple wives. These rules would cause much more outrage in modern society than gay marriage. Modern marriage is about transfer of property, including children and an element of guardianship over the spouse when said spouse is incapacitated. The church lent its authority but it is not fundamentally an issue of Christian morality. Sex as a whole is suspect in the New Testament.

    That said, I campaigned for Civil Partnerships for single sex couples. I remain opposed to single sex adoption of children and 'marriage'. Marriage to me is bringing extra security to management of family relations. It's not just the law it's your own promise to yourself, wife, future children and community.

    It should be observed that many children in Russia are brought up by a single sex couple of mother and grandmother.

    Replies: @AltanBakshi, @Kent Nationalist, @showmethereal, @JasonT, @216, @David Davenport

    The Gospels say almost nothing about marriage. The New Testament very little.

    “Better to marry than to burn.”

    Christians often interpret Paul’s statement in I Cor. 7:9 (i.e. “it’s better to marry than to burn”) as though, as a general rule, it’s better to get married hastily than to be consumed with sexual passion. But as Gordon Fee points out,1 Paul does not say (as the ESV & NIV translate it), “if they cannot exercise self control, it’s better to marry than to burn with passion.” Rather, in the Greek, Paul says, “if they are not exercising self control (i.e. practicing continence), it’s better to marry than to burn with passion.”

    In context, Paul is referring to those people in Corinth who are doing the same sorts of things as some of the married couples in verses 1-7 are tempted to do, i.e. indulging in sexual immorality.

    And as Fee also points out, the formation of clubs which associated with and indulged in cultic prostitution is but one example of a very common sin throughout Corinthian culture, and Paul alludes to that association two other times in this first epistle to the Corinthians.”

    http://www.thisexplainsmore.com/2013/06/better-to-marry-than-to-burn.html

    Paul was concerned that Christians in Corinth were backsliding into paganism.

    The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/New-Testament-homosexuality.html

    It should be observed that many children in Russia are brought up by a single sex couple of mother and grandmother.

    Same as many Africkan-Americans.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  114. @Ano4
    @Philip Owen


    The abilty of the Rothschilds vanished in a cocaine haze in the 1920’s and never recovered
     
    .

    I have recently read somewhere that they had around 13 trillion under management through different financial vehicle and shell corporations. Is it just an urban legend?

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Philip Owen, @Bardon Kaldian

    Is it just an urban legend?

    Yes.

  115. Too many meaningless stuff in otherwise provocative topic about human malleability.

    1. For how long?

    2. Are all the same, having basically the same level of culture & standard of living, in their pliability zo the media manipulation?

    3. the role of other ideologies (religion, nationalism,..)

    4. is there some kind of human (or ethnic?) essence that ultimately rejects some/most? of this propaganda?

    5. how much of gay propaganda is important in the complete direction of a nation’s destiny? Is it very important or just an aside?

    …..

  116. @Ano4
    @Agathoklis


    Because gay men cannot sire children like we do, then why would they feel the need to have a steady long term relationship and domesticate themselves.
     
    Perhaps because they love each other and cannot imagine being separated?

    Because they care for each other's well being?

    My wife has a gay couple friends who have had a stable relationship for more than 35 years. One of them died from COVID-19 this summer. These two guys were way more attached to each other than the majority of heterosexual couples I know. The surviving one will probably not last for long.

    Human emotions are not something rational. I am sure glad I am straight, married and having a stable relationship with kids, dogs, cats etc. But people do not have to see the world in the same way as I do.

    I feel disgusted by the Gay Pride exhibitionism and militancy, but if they live their life quietly on their own and are happy that way, then who am I to judge them and why should I care?

    Replies: @Agathoklis, @Kent Nationalist, @Bardon Kaldian

    You are right, but I think socio-cultural investigations show that such kind of relationships is extremely rare in gay community (and very rare in straight community).

    • Agree: Ano4
  117. @Kent Nationalist
    @showmethereal


    The Roman Catholics buried that history

     

    Incorrect. From the Catechism

    122 Indeed, "the economy of the Old Testament was deliberately so oriented that it should prepare for and declare in prophecy the coming of Christ, redeemer of all men."93 "Even though they contain matters imperfect and provisional,"94 the books of the Old Testament bear witness to the whole divine pedagogy of God's saving love: these writings "are a storehouse of sublime teaching on God and of sound wisdom on human life, as well as a wonderful treasury of prayers; in them, too, the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way."95

     

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Most Catholics have no clue about any of that.

    And I was talking specifically about the practice before the Roman Catholics existed.

  118. Speaking of Jews, I have met a lot of interesting Jews and have been on friendly terms with a few of them. But I make it clear to them that I do not take their cultural and historical peculiarities seriously. For me they are neither “G-d’s chosen People “, nor “Synagogue of Satan “. I tend to see them as very thoroughly westernized Middle Easterners with a somewhat crazy high opinion about their overall historical record.

    • Thanks: Ano4
    • Replies: @Ano4
    @Bardon Kaldian

    My opinions are not very original.

  119. @Bardon Kaldian

    Speaking of Jews, I have met a lot of interesting Jews and have been on friendly terms with a few of them. But I make it clear to them that I do not take their cultural and historical peculiarities seriously. For me they are neither “G-d’s chosen People “, nor “Synagogue of Satan “. I tend to see them as very thoroughly westernized Middle Easterners with a somewhat crazy high opinion about their overall historical record.
     
    https://media1.tenor.com/images/462c2691643cf8aa74bb1632ac5c0fd7/tenor.gif?itemid=15743550

    Replies: @Ano4

    My opinions are not very original.

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