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armenia-protest

Revolutionary passions.

Then it won’t be a big deal for Russia.

Now to be sure, I still think my analysis here stands – Armenians genuinely do approve of Russia, and even if they didn’t, they certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less, and with good reason – but if we do get an anti-Russian Armenian government…

OTOH, Saakashvili also started off by saying he wanted better relations with Russia.

Anyhow.

What will happen if Armenia tells the moskal occupants to go home is that while the Starikovs and the Dugins and the Western Russophiles will throw a hissy fit, Russian nationalists will be quite platonic about it.

Here’s why:

1. Armenia benefits from its Russia relationship far more than does Russia. The Armenian Lobby is the most powerful ethnic lobby in Russian politics, and probably the only one that makes a discernible impact on Russian foreign policy.

2. Armenia was a real geostrategic asset for the Russian Empire before World War I, when ethnic Armenians in the Ottoman Empire were a potential dagger in the backs of the Turks. Their desire to create a Greater Armenia tallied well with Russia’s centuries-long project to dismantle the Ottoman Empire, and it was their consequent loyalty to Petrograd that more than anything else spurred on the Armenian Genocide. Had Russia won the war, a Greater Armenia would have stretched deep into Anatolia, creating an Orthodox landbridge to Lebanon and the Holy Land. With Russia in control of Tsargrad, and the Greeks recreating Magna Graecia, the Turks would have been bottled up in the Anatolian highlands (perhaps no other nation was spared so catastrophic a 20th century fate as Turkey by the Russian Revolution). Russia, not Britain or the US, would have ruled over the Mediterranean.

Today, these are all ancient pipedreams. The Mediterranean is an American lake and will remain so regardless of what happens in Syria. Turkey dominates the region, economically and demographically; if a century ago there around about as many Greeks and Armenians as there were Turks (!), today there are 80 million Turks to 10 million Greeks and 3 million Armenians. In this context, Armenia is strategically overrated. It is landlocked. It is surrounded by hostile and far more powerful states. It locks Russia into military commitments via the CSTO alliance – for instance, if the Turks were to open up a second front in support of an Azeri invasion of Nagorno-Karabakh. And Iran, a genuinely useful if prickly partner, is accessible via the Caspian anyway.

3. There are negligible numbers of ethnic Russians in Armenia. An anti-Russian turn in Armenia will not impact on the welfare of ethnic Russians. Neither will Armenia reaping the results of its folly.

4. Armenia’s friendship is highly situational. To be sure, it supports Russia today. And Jews also support the US. That doesn’t necessarily imply deep loyalty – just that both states advance their respective peoples’ ethnic genetic interests. When they perceived things were otherwise, they made that known. Obscure historical note: The “tradition” of terrorist bombings of the Moscow Metro began with Armenian nationalists in the 1970s.

This is not surprising because Russia have any deep cultural, linguistic, or genetic links to Armenia. Is is its own ancient civilization that is highly distinct from Russia’s.

Now ditching allies just because you know they aren’t that genuine in their love for you, or because they’re not not pulling their weight, doesn’t look good from the side. It’s not just bad from an ethical perspective, but a reputational one as well. Who’d want to be allies with a blackguard, anyway? This is why, unlike some Russian nationalists, I don’t support unilaterally dissolving the special relationship with Armenia. It’s dishonorable, and won’t bring obvious benefits anyway – for instance, it’s not like it will make Turkey into a genuine friend. However, this is not an excuse for allowing oneself to be cucked and enjoying it, so if the initiative comes from the Armenians themselves – well, no reason why Russia shouldn’t take them up on it.

In this scenario, Azerbaijan will probably take the opportunity to resolve the Nagorno-Karabakh issue by force in the next few years. At least seeing the color revolutionaries vainly beseeching their Euro-Atlantic sponsors for help will be amusing. At this point, a rump Armenia terminally disillusioned with the West may go back to Russia anyway. But if it doesn’t, who cares, anyway. By then will be even more irrelevant than it is today.

Main downside for Russia, apart from the obvious one of losing its last major (but isolated) military base in the South Caucasus, is hundreds of thousands of Armenian refugees, as the Azeris proceed to ethnically cleanse that region.

Just to clarify. I don’t want Armenia to turn anti-Russian, nor – more importantly – do I think it will turn anti-Russian. Considering that both Foreign Policy magazine and the Kremlin agree, this is hardly a controversial perspective.

However, if I and Foreign Policy and the Kremlin are all wrong, and the people who see an anti-Russian conspiracy underneath every color revolution are correct after all, it will, at least, not be Russians who will bear the brunt of the ensuing suffering, as happened in the Ukraine.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Armenia, International Relations, Russia 
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  1. “It’s dishonorable” – Good God, I’m beginning to hear moralistic language on this blog!

    How the world is changing.

    • LOL: utu, Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
    WWTSD?

    What would the singularity do?

    Peace.
    , @Macon Richardson
    You are not hearing "moralistic" language on this site. You are hearing language that shows moral responsibility. That's what happens when you step away from brute materialism.
  2. So Sputnik Pogrom are Russian nationalists? I thought they were supposed to be rootless, cynical hipsters except anti-Western and racist?

    edit: There being a powerful Armenian lobby within Russia basically eliminates the possibility of Armenians only having a 92 IQ. Time to give up on your PISA worship, Anatoly.

  3. It’s an interesting question how many more Greeks and Armenians there would be today, and how many fewer Turks there would be today, if the Turks had not ethnically cleansed the Greeks and Armenians.

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe. A similar thing can be said of the French regarding North Africans.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe
     
    German right-wingers claim this was partly due to US pressure and Cold War politics, with stabilization of NATO ally Turkey being an important goal of allowing Turkish "guest workers" (lol) to come. I know it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory and I haven't looked into the matter myself, but it doesn't seem completely implausible to me.
    Don't have much to say about the current Armenian issue (AK doesn't seem to care much either)...bit frustrating we don't get to see how the possibly cute girl in the picture above looks from the front :-(
    , @Mitleser
    It can't be helped anymore.

    https://abload.de/img/trklnvguih.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVwiz3tXcAAcqbn.jpg
    , @yevardian
    As I've said before, cultural allegiance is a fickle thing. Wiping out a culture doesn't necessarily require the elimination of its people. Turkey forced name-changes, Turkish-speaking Christians were deported to be replaced by Balkan-Muslims etc. An outright majority of the better sort of Turks are descended from such people.

    But since I know no-one cares about Armenia, we can play "would Greasy bang?" IIRC he's the one who considers Persians subhuman whilst finding their women hot?

    http://www.chi.am/images/StandardImage/arpine2.jpg

  4. @songbird
    It's an interesting question how many more Greeks and Armenians there would be today, and how many fewer Turks there would be today, if the Turks had not ethnically cleansed the Greeks and Armenians.

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe. A similar thing can be said of the French regarding North Africans.

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe

    German right-wingers claim this was partly due to US pressure and Cold War politics, with stabilization of NATO ally Turkey being an important goal of allowing Turkish “guest workers” (lol) to come. I know it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory and I haven’t looked into the matter myself, but it doesn’t seem completely implausible to me.
    Don’t have much to say about the current Armenian issue (AK doesn’t seem to care much either)…bit frustrating we don’t get to see how the possibly cute girl in the picture above looks from the front 🙁

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    The topic-related German wiki-article does mention that it was the Turkish government who pushed for Turkish (worker) migration, something German officials did not consider necessary and that Turkey's influence as NATO partner made it more difficult to reject it.
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einwanderung_aus_der_Türkei_in_die_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland#Allgemeines
    , @Annatar
    I think the decision to bring in guest workers from Turkey to Germany was influenced by simple business considerations, it shouldn't be forgotten that it was "right wing" German politicians who were only concerned with the economy who started the guest worker program, the German equivalents of big business conservatives in the US, in any case, the Turkish threat to Germany is quite small, Turks only constitute around 5% of the population, their proportion is not growing and their fertility rates are similar to the overall national average, I think the threat to France via Maghrebi migrants is much higher because the fertility differential is larger between them and the native population of France.
    , @songbird
    I'm among the first to admit that the US has had a lot of malign influence. Western Europe's mistakes I generally blame on Western European politicians though.

    In the case of Turkey, it strikes me that not only were Russians and Turks traditional enemies, but they had long-standing competing geostrategic concerns. Russia long wanted direct access to the Mediterranean. The Turks long wanted to retain control of the Bosphorus.

    Perhaps, there were fears of a revolution or a coup. (Turkey certainly had many coups) Supposedly, the political environment became more lax in the '60s, and the Turkish Workers Party gained prominence.
    , @Seraphim
    Perhaps the grossest stupidity and shortsightedness of German authorities was when they allied themselves with the Turks in WW1 against Russia. Bismarck, who was a realist, was not opposed to the "Russians coming to Constantinople" and was convinced that the Turks 'had no business in Europe'. It was the dream of a German Empire in the East, eying the oil of Iran and Irak and Caspian that brought together Russia and Britain who put to rest their 'Great Game' (at least for a while) and led to WW1.
  5. @songbird
    It's an interesting question how many more Greeks and Armenians there would be today, and how many fewer Turks there would be today, if the Turks had not ethnically cleansed the Greeks and Armenians.

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe. A similar thing can be said of the French regarding North Africans.

    It can’t be helped anymore.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I hate to say it but it looks as if there are more people holding Turkish flags in Germany than people holding German flags.
  6. However, if I and Foreign Policy and the Kremlin are all wrong, and the people who see an anti-Russian conspiracy underneath every color revolution are correct after all, it will, at least, not be Russians who will bear the brunt of the ensuing suffering, as happened in the Ukraine. Russia’s losses.

    Quite a sobering insight. taken to its logical conclusion means that it’s Russians (not native Ukrainians) mostly responsible for the disaster in Donbas, and that it’s the Russians paying a heavy price for this ridiculous folly (although Ukrainians are paying for it too). Thank you Anatoly for this revealing comment. As of April 25, 76 attacks on Ukrainian positions by Russian occupiers has resulted in 11 wounded soldiers. Still, morale seems high among Ukrainian soldiers. How about the Russian side? https://fbnews.com.ua/ukraine/ostanni-dni-ato-peretvorilisya-v-peklo-vzhe-ne-zagostrennya-a-spravzhnya-vijna-ukrayina-zavmerla-v-molitvi.html

  7. @German_reader

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe
     
    German right-wingers claim this was partly due to US pressure and Cold War politics, with stabilization of NATO ally Turkey being an important goal of allowing Turkish "guest workers" (lol) to come. I know it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory and I haven't looked into the matter myself, but it doesn't seem completely implausible to me.
    Don't have much to say about the current Armenian issue (AK doesn't seem to care much either)...bit frustrating we don't get to see how the possibly cute girl in the picture above looks from the front :-(

    The topic-related German wiki-article does mention that it was the Turkish government who pushed for Turkish (worker) migration, something German officials did not consider necessary and that Turkey’s influence as NATO partner made it more difficult to reject it.
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einwanderung_aus_der_Türkei_in_die_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland#Allgemeines

  8. On the Left wing sites that I read the feeling is that American, woke talking head Joy Reid’s current problems are the work of Russian bots.

  9. It has always astonished me how the population trajectories of Turkey and Greece, 2 nations with similar levels of GDP per capita currently and a fairly similar culture diverged so much over the course of the 20th century, in 1928, Greece had 6.2m inhabitants compared to Turkey’s 14m, a 2.3:1 ratio in favor of Turkey. By 2000, Greece had 10.9m whereas Turkey had 68m, a 6.2:1 ratio, nearly a tripling and as of 2017, Greece had 10.8m as vs Turkey’s 81m, a ratio of 7.5:1. Istanbul alone now has more people then the entire of Greece and a bigger economy as well.

    • Replies: @Hermes
    Incorrect. Despite the crisis, Greek GDP per capital remains 80% higher than Turkey's on a current USD basis. Also, of Turkey's 80m people about 20-25% are Kurds. Also, about 20% are Alevi . That makes the core Turkish Sunni population about 48m. Lastly, their culture differs radically.
  10. @German_reader

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe
     
    German right-wingers claim this was partly due to US pressure and Cold War politics, with stabilization of NATO ally Turkey being an important goal of allowing Turkish "guest workers" (lol) to come. I know it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory and I haven't looked into the matter myself, but it doesn't seem completely implausible to me.
    Don't have much to say about the current Armenian issue (AK doesn't seem to care much either)...bit frustrating we don't get to see how the possibly cute girl in the picture above looks from the front :-(

    I think the decision to bring in guest workers from Turkey to Germany was influenced by simple business considerations, it shouldn’t be forgotten that it was “right wing” German politicians who were only concerned with the economy who started the guest worker program, the German equivalents of big business conservatives in the US, in any case, the Turkish threat to Germany is quite small, Turks only constitute around 5% of the population, their proportion is not growing and their fertility rates are similar to the overall national average, I think the threat to France via Maghrebi migrants is much higher because the fertility differential is larger between them and the native population of France.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    There were many other gastarbeiter sources (Italy, Greece, Spain, etc.).
    Turks were not really needed. They were still accepted for political reasons.
    , @reiner Tor
    The German government was satisfied with the Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian guest worker programs. I think there already existed a Yugoslav guest worker program, and it worked fine, too. The then German government initially was opposed to a Turkish program because they claimed that the cultural difference was too great, much greater than with the Southern Europeans. Then they gave in.
  11. @Annatar
    I think the decision to bring in guest workers from Turkey to Germany was influenced by simple business considerations, it shouldn't be forgotten that it was "right wing" German politicians who were only concerned with the economy who started the guest worker program, the German equivalents of big business conservatives in the US, in any case, the Turkish threat to Germany is quite small, Turks only constitute around 5% of the population, their proportion is not growing and their fertility rates are similar to the overall national average, I think the threat to France via Maghrebi migrants is much higher because the fertility differential is larger between them and the native population of France.

    There were many other gastarbeiter sources (Italy, Greece, Spain, etc.).
    Turks were not really needed. They were still accepted for political reasons.

  12. @Annatar
    I think the decision to bring in guest workers from Turkey to Germany was influenced by simple business considerations, it shouldn't be forgotten that it was "right wing" German politicians who were only concerned with the economy who started the guest worker program, the German equivalents of big business conservatives in the US, in any case, the Turkish threat to Germany is quite small, Turks only constitute around 5% of the population, their proportion is not growing and their fertility rates are similar to the overall national average, I think the threat to France via Maghrebi migrants is much higher because the fertility differential is larger between them and the native population of France.

    The German government was satisfied with the Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian guest worker programs. I think there already existed a Yugoslav guest worker program, and it worked fine, too. The then German government initially was opposed to a Turkish program because they claimed that the cultural difference was too great, much greater than with the Southern Europeans. Then they gave in.

  13. Simply not going to happen. Anti-Russian sentiment in the country is absolutely negligible.

    • Replies: @g2k
    Whilst I do tend to agree, I think you're exaggerating how negligible it is. Pashinyan's coalition, before the protests, was explicitly pro EU and anti EAU. If he's promising no change now it means that, if he gets in, someone's going to get cucked.

    The diaspora are only slightly less anti Russian than the countries they hail from. There's also lots of 'independent' media organisations over there writing in English, with no visible income apart from NGO money.
  14. @songbird
    It's an interesting question how many more Greeks and Armenians there would be today, and how many fewer Turks there would be today, if the Turks had not ethnically cleansed the Greeks and Armenians.

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe. A similar thing can be said of the French regarding North Africans.

    As I’ve said before, cultural allegiance is a fickle thing. Wiping out a culture doesn’t necessarily require the elimination of its people. Turkey forced name-changes, Turkish-speaking Christians were deported to be replaced by Balkan-Muslims etc. An outright majority of the better sort of Turks are descended from such people.

    But since I know no-one cares about Armenia, we can play “would Greasy bang?” IIRC he’s the one who considers Persians subhuman whilst finding their women hot?

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno... 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I'm really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world's most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn't mean you can't fuck them.

    2. I don't believe I've ever described Iranian women as "hot" and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren't the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. "SyrianGirl", in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as "Persians"! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only "Iranians" who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    , @utu
    I have heard recently that plastic surgery (mostly nose jobs) are very popular in Iran for both women and men among upper and upper middle classes. It is a status symbol but also an indication that Western beauty standard with small noses took over there. Supposedly they like to parade in public with bandages still on after surgery so people can see they got surgery .

    Iran leaps into world’s top 10 countries performing plastic surgery
    https://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/iran-leaps-into-world-s-top-10-countries-performing-plastic-surgery-1.174897
    The trend has seen the Islamic Republic jump into the world’s top 10 countries performing plastic surgery. In 2013 it ranked fourth worldwide - after Brazil, Mexico and the United States - for nose jobs, the International Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgery reported.

    According to official figures, up to 40,000 cosmetic surgeries take place in Iran each year, says Amirizad, a member of the Iranian Association of Cosmetic and Plastic Surgeons. More than 60 per cent are nose jobs.
     
    Q: What are the stats for nose jobs among Jewish women in the US? 50%?

    Supposedly in general statistic there is a downward trend but does it apply to Jews.

    https://jezebel.com/5916532/the-decline-of-the-jewish-girl-nose-job
    At the same time, as national rates go down, more Orthodox Jews feel comfortable getting the surgery because modern rabbis are giving them the go-ahead. One doctor said less religious Jews ask him for eyelid lifts and chin implants, but Orthodox Jews always want nose jobs. One Miami surgeon, Dr. Michael Salzhauer, recently launched a "pro-bono campaign" for single men and women in the Orthodox community — if they're referred by their matchmakers and have their finances verified by a rabbi, they might be eligible for free rhinoplasty.
     
    Good example of Jewish mimicry.
    , @Anonymous
    Love that sleek, dark hair of Arab, Persian, Armenian women (and the 2-inch-thick dark bush that comes with it). When I was in my teens I only had eyes for blonde nordic women. After some experience I lost interest in them. In my 20’s I only had eyes for dark, ethnic women (South American, Middle Eastern). After some experience with them I lost interest. Now in my 30’s I only have eyes for Asian and East Asian women. And after some experience with them— now a lot of experience with them— I’m hooked for life!
  15. @yevardian
    As I've said before, cultural allegiance is a fickle thing. Wiping out a culture doesn't necessarily require the elimination of its people. Turkey forced name-changes, Turkish-speaking Christians were deported to be replaced by Balkan-Muslims etc. An outright majority of the better sort of Turks are descended from such people.

    But since I know no-one cares about Armenia, we can play "would Greasy bang?" IIRC he's the one who considers Persians subhuman whilst finding their women hot?

    http://www.chi.am/images/StandardImage/arpine2.jpg

    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno… 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I’m really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world’s most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn’t mean you can’t fuck them.

    2. I don’t believe I’ve ever described Iranian women as “hot” and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren’t the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. “SyrianGirl”, in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as “Persians”! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only “Iranians” who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn’t mean you can’t fuck them.
     
    True, but normally they never said black or Jewish girls were the most beautiful.
    , @utu

    acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum
     
    Where does in come from that you say things like that?
    , @Talha

    There is no such thing as “Persians”!
     
    Man, I thought you guys only did that with “Palestinians”.

    I get your drift though, but would say that many nominal Muslims that fled Iran also used that label to self-identify. They also used the Pahlavi flag.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Flag_of_Iran_with_standardized_lion_and_sun.svg

    That was the easy way to know who you were dealing with around UCLA. The Shiah brothers in the MSA never used that term.

    Peace.
    , @Avery
    {...Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me.}


    You can certainly go to Yerevan and try.
    But your member will be removed and placed in your non-ethnic mouth, you will be savagely beaten, and will be sent to Grease heaven to enjoy eternal bliss with whatever scum you congregate with.


    { Is she an Armo?}

    Are you a mongrel swine?

    , @Randal

    Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn’t mean you can’t fuck them.
     
    Male sexual appetite is pretty damned flexible. History and the incorporation of Neanderthal genes (as well as the existence of homosexual activity and bestiality) strongly support the existence and importance of this fact of human nature.
    , @neutral

    There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls
     
    No there were not plenty, despite what Hollywood says. Germans soldiers did not partake in large amounts of rapes like the Russians did. As for romantic relations, this was also an exceedingly rare thing and was obviously not endorsed by society.
    , @Jayce
    the only “Iranians” who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    Did you stop paying to Iranian culture sometime in the 80s? I talk to loads of people living in Iran regularly and they all self-identify as "Persian" (even a couple who are actually Azeri or Mazanderani seem to like it).
    , @Artist
    " Iranians are subhuman scum " (!!!!!!!)
    I bet you're a Jew (if you're not one of those arrogant pales that reminds us of the color of the dead).
    I vomited all this bullshit and your psychic complexes!
    I order you to show yourself to the first psychiatrist as soon as possible.
    look how bad the world is that a psycho fool like this man called Iranian subhuman !!!
    Iranian that civilization, culture and science of the world owe to them.
    Bring your head out of your ass and go study a little !!
    Finally, I wish there is here a photo of this superhuman!! until we see that and enjoy !!!
  16. @Yevardian
    Simply not going to happen. Anti-Russian sentiment in the country is absolutely negligible.

    Whilst I do tend to agree, I think you’re exaggerating how negligible it is. Pashinyan’s coalition, before the protests, was explicitly pro EU and anti EAU. If he’s promising no change now it means that, if he gets in, someone’s going to get cucked.

    The diaspora are only slightly less anti Russian than the countries they hail from. There’s also lots of ‘independent’ media organisations over there writing in English, with no visible income apart from NGO money.

    • Replies: @Avery
    {... I think you’re exaggerating how negligible it is}

    No he isn't.

    Pashinyan may be pro EU and all that, but he is just riding the populist anti-Serj wave.
    The wave will die out once it has released the accumulated steam pressure, since the polarizing figure, Serj Sargsyan, very prudently quickly resigned.
    As I noted in the other thread, he should have _never_ taken the post, but he was smart enough not to prolong his mistake.

    During the electric tariffs protests in Yerevan some years ago, another pro-EU hack - Paruyr Hayrikyan* - and a dozen of his groupies showed up with the EU flag. The youth promptly roughed the group up and ripped the EU flag to shreds. They were told no flag other than Armenia's will be allowed, and were chased away.

    During Armenia's 20th Independence anniversary military parade, a Russian contingent with Russian colors, uniforms, etc was invited by the Armenian government to march together. There was widespread talk (...actually BS) about organizing a, quote, 'massive' protest against the Russian military presence in the Independence parade. Guess how many people actually showed up? About 10-12.

    People, including Karlin, commenting about _any_ Armenian government ejecting Russians have no clue about Armenia or the people of Armenia. Let me give you an example from Karlin himself:

    {Armenians genuinely do approve of Russia, and even if they didn’t, they certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less, and with good reason – but if we do get an anti-Russian Armenian government…}

    The expression '...certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less,...' clearly shows Karlin has no idea who Armenians are and only has vague knowledge of their history.
    'Far less' ?!
    Anyone heard of Artsakh/Nagorno-Karabagh?
    Do people commenting have any idea how Artsakh and historic Armenian lands were liberated?
    Anyone remember the 4-day war in April 2016 when 10s of 1,000s of volunteers from all over Armenia poured into Stepanakert to counter Azerbaijan's invasion?
    There is no gradation such as 'more','less', 'a little more',....: it is black and white.

    _______
    * Paruyr Hayrikyan was bona fide Armenian patriot at first, but somewhere along the way he went off the rails, and started spouting nonsense.

  17. @Greasy William
    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno... 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I'm really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world's most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn't mean you can't fuck them.

    2. I don't believe I've ever described Iranian women as "hot" and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren't the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. "SyrianGirl", in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as "Persians"! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only "Iranians" who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn’t mean you can’t fuck them.

    True, but normally they never said black or Jewish girls were the most beautiful.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    They were evil. Not blind.
  18. @Greasy William
    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno... 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I'm really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world's most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn't mean you can't fuck them.

    2. I don't believe I've ever described Iranian women as "hot" and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren't the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. "SyrianGirl", in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as "Persians"! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only "Iranians" who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum

    Where does in come from that you say things like that?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Because I believe Greasy has never visited in these countries.

    He lives in the world of pictures posted on internet message boards, symbolic theological combinations, and Taylor Swift videos on youtube.
  19. @reiner Tor

    There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn’t mean you can’t fuck them.
     
    True, but normally they never said black or Jewish girls were the most beautiful.

    They were evil. Not blind.

  20. The 19th century strategic value is indeed not relevant today. They did not have jet fighters and bombers in the 19th century, with range of thousands of kilometers and thousands more for the range of the cruise missiles they can carry. So the Guymri base is still very much useful. However the partnership with Iran is indeed lessening that importance since they allowed Russia to use the Hamadan air base.

    I think the most important part is not the potential strategic benefit, but the potential loss as it’s one thing if the Russian base there disappears, it’s another thing if American bases pop up in its place.
    Yes, Armenia will shoot itself in the foot but that is irrelevant to Russia. Ukraine also shot itself in the foot with their pro-western revolution but how does that make things any better.

    I really hope Armenians will be smarter than that. Pashinyan seems like a true western shill.

    On the general topic of Armenians and their girls – from my observations in Bulgaria, Armenians are a bit like jews from an alternate universe, where the jews are good people. Best minority you can possibly ask for. And Margarita Simonyan is very hot (I know Russian nationalists will not agree with me on this one).

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    It would be more logical for the USA to set up a base in Azerbaijan, don't you think? And we can already launch cruise missiles from ships in Caspian sea. Armenia is not needed for this. It really is a liability, whichever way you look at it.
  21. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mcdonalds-russia/volatile-ruble-encourages-mcdonalds-to-cook-up-russian-fries-idUSKBN1HW1XY

    French fries at McDonald’s restaurants from Moscow to Murmansk will be Russian from now on, as the American fast-food chain turns to homegrown potatoes to deal with rouble volatility caused by fluctuating oil prices and Western sanctions.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Poland hardest hit! :)
    https://inosmi.ru/social/20180428/242114793.html
  22. @Spisarevski
    The 19th century strategic value is indeed not relevant today. They did not have jet fighters and bombers in the 19th century, with range of thousands of kilometers and thousands more for the range of the cruise missiles they can carry. So the Guymri base is still very much useful. However the partnership with Iran is indeed lessening that importance since they allowed Russia to use the Hamadan air base.

    I think the most important part is not the potential strategic benefit, but the potential loss as it's one thing if the Russian base there disappears, it's another thing if American bases pop up in its place.
    Yes, Armenia will shoot itself in the foot but that is irrelevant to Russia. Ukraine also shot itself in the foot with their pro-western revolution but how does that make things any better.

    I really hope Armenians will be smarter than that. Pashinyan seems like a true western shill.

    On the general topic of Armenians and their girls - from my observations in Bulgaria, Armenians are a bit like jews from an alternate universe, where the jews are good people. Best minority you can possibly ask for. And Margarita Simonyan is very hot (I know Russian nationalists will not agree with me on this one).

    It would be more logical for the USA to set up a base in Azerbaijan, don’t you think? And we can already launch cruise missiles from ships in Caspian sea. Armenia is not needed for this. It really is a liability, whichever way you look at it.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Or Georgia.
    Or Turkey.
    Oh wait, they have them.
    , @Avery
    { Armenia is not needed for this. It really is a liability, whichever way you look at it.}

    Yeah, Armenia sure is a' liability' for Russia, that's why Russia maintains a base in Gyumri with ~5,000 troops and maintains an air wing in Yerevan. Isn't it obvious Russia is not doing all that just because Armenia produces great brandy? Yeah, Russia can certainly launch missiles from the Caspian sea and does not need Armenia for that. If you can't see why Russia is loath to lose Armenia, then you don't see.
  23. @Anon
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mcdonalds-russia/volatile-ruble-encourages-mcdonalds-to-cook-up-russian-fries-idUSKBN1HW1XY

    French fries at McDonald’s restaurants from Moscow to Murmansk will be Russian from now on, as the American fast-food chain turns to homegrown potatoes to deal with rouble volatility caused by fluctuating oil prices and Western sanctions.
     
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Bizarre that they import Polish and even Dutch potatoes. This has to be related to EU subsidies and effectively a dumping mechanism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

  24. @AaronB
    "It's dishonorable" - Good God, I'm beginning to hear moralistic language on this blog!

    How the world is changing.

    WWTSD?

    What would the singularity do?

    Peace.

  25. @Felix Keverich
    It would be more logical for the USA to set up a base in Azerbaijan, don't you think? And we can already launch cruise missiles from ships in Caspian sea. Armenia is not needed for this. It really is a liability, whichever way you look at it.

    Or Georgia.
    Or Turkey.
    Oh wait, they have them.

  26. @Greasy William
    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno... 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I'm really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world's most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn't mean you can't fuck them.

    2. I don't believe I've ever described Iranian women as "hot" and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren't the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. "SyrianGirl", in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as "Persians"! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only "Iranians" who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    There is no such thing as “Persians”!

    Man, I thought you guys only did that with “Palestinians”.

    I get your drift though, but would say that many nominal Muslims that fled Iran also used that label to self-identify. They also used the Pahlavi flag.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Flag_of_Iran_with_standardized_lion_and_sun.svg

    That was the easy way to know who you were dealing with around UCLA. The Shiah brothers in the MSA never used that term.

    Peace.

  27. @AaronB
    "It's dishonorable" - Good God, I'm beginning to hear moralistic language on this blog!

    How the world is changing.

    You are not hearing “moralistic” language on this site. You are hearing language that shows moral responsibility. That’s what happens when you step away from brute materialism.

  28. @utu

    acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum
     
    Where does in come from that you say things like that?

    Because I believe Greasy has never visited in these countries.

    He lives in the world of pictures posted on internet message boards, symbolic theological combinations, and Taylor Swift videos on youtube.

  29. @Felix Keverich
    It would be more logical for the USA to set up a base in Azerbaijan, don't you think? And we can already launch cruise missiles from ships in Caspian sea. Armenia is not needed for this. It really is a liability, whichever way you look at it.

    { Armenia is not needed for this. It really is a liability, whichever way you look at it.}

    Yeah, Armenia sure is a’ liability’ for Russia, that’s why Russia maintains a base in Gyumri with ~5,000 troops and maintains an air wing in Yerevan. Isn’t it obvious Russia is not doing all that just because Armenia produces great brandy? Yeah, Russia can certainly launch missiles from the Caspian sea and does not need Armenia for that. If you can’t see why Russia is loath to lose Armenia, then you don’t see.

  30. The idea that Russia-Armenia relationships are bad for Russia, is false.

    Armenia and Azerbaijan are both useful for Russia as they spend much of their GDP buying armaments from Russia. The tensions between them encourage both sides to increase their purchases.

    All this said, a hot war between them would go from a positive situation, to a rapidly negative one. So you can see the balance or ideal situation for the Kremlin – which is mediating peace between the sides.

    • Replies: @dmitry
    The mediating between two sides extends the diplomatic power and influence in the region. In addition, with Armenia there is the customs union project, supply of workforce, and location of military bases.

    On the other hand, Azerbaijan is more powerful ally for Russia, but also more changeable or less loyal one, with more options.

    The relations with Armenia and Azerbaijan are both mutually enforcing. The closer relation build with one, encourages the other to build closer relations. And likewise with armaments purchases.
  31. @Dmitry
    The idea that Russia-Armenia relationships are bad for Russia, is false.

    Armenia and Azerbaijan are both useful for Russia as they spend much of their GDP buying armaments from Russia. The tensions between them encourage both sides to increase their purchases.

    All this said, a hot war between them would go from a positive situation, to a rapidly negative one. So you can see the balance or ideal situation for the Kremlin - which is mediating peace between the sides.

    The mediating between two sides extends the diplomatic power and influence in the region. In addition, with Armenia there is the customs union project, supply of workforce, and location of military bases.

    On the other hand, Azerbaijan is more powerful ally for Russia, but also more changeable or less loyal one, with more options.

    The relations with Armenia and Azerbaijan are both mutually enforcing. The closer relation build with one, encourages the other to build closer relations. And likewise with armaments purchases.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    The idea that Russia-Armenia relationships are bad for Russia, is false.
     

    In addition, with Armenia there is the customs union project, supply of workforce, and location of military bases.
     
    I see this as a huge negative actually. Russia has no real need for extra workforce, particularly if it comes in the form of brown, hairy people.
    , @reiner Tor
    Are the two Dmitry’s (the one with the capital D and the one with the lower case d) the same? I wanted to ask before, but always forgot.
  32. In case you haven’t noticed, Russia is led by rather naive and short-sighted people with a strong sense of nostalgia for USSR. Any ex-Soviet republic that doesn’t openly spit into Russia face gets showered with gifts, and Armenia is taking full advantage of that.

    Russian military couldn’t use its Armenian base during the war with Georgia. It really serves no purpose other than protecting Armenia. And on top of it, Russia needs to “pay” for this base by providing Armenia with cheap gas. That’s just adding insult to injury.

  33. @g2k
    Whilst I do tend to agree, I think you're exaggerating how negligible it is. Pashinyan's coalition, before the protests, was explicitly pro EU and anti EAU. If he's promising no change now it means that, if he gets in, someone's going to get cucked.

    The diaspora are only slightly less anti Russian than the countries they hail from. There's also lots of 'independent' media organisations over there writing in English, with no visible income apart from NGO money.

    {… I think you’re exaggerating how negligible it is}

    No he isn’t.

    Pashinyan may be pro EU and all that, but he is just riding the populist anti-Serj wave.
    The wave will die out once it has released the accumulated steam pressure, since the polarizing figure, Serj Sargsyan, very prudently quickly resigned.
    As I noted in the other thread, he should have _never_ taken the post, but he was smart enough not to prolong his mistake.

    During the electric tariffs protests in Yerevan some years ago, another pro-EU hack – Paruyr Hayrikyan* – and a dozen of his groupies showed up with the EU flag. The youth promptly roughed the group up and ripped the EU flag to shreds. They were told no flag other than Armenia’s will be allowed, and were chased away.

    During Armenia’s 20th Independence anniversary military parade, a Russian contingent with Russian colors, uniforms, etc was invited by the Armenian government to march together. There was widespread talk (…actually BS) about organizing a, quote, ‘massive’ protest against the Russian military presence in the Independence parade. Guess how many people actually showed up? About 10-12.

    People, including Karlin, commenting about _any_ Armenian government ejecting Russians have no clue about Armenia or the people of Armenia. Let me give you an example from Karlin himself:

    {Armenians genuinely do approve of Russia, and even if they didn’t, they certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less, and with good reason – but if we do get an anti-Russian Armenian government…}

    The expression ‘…certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less,…’ clearly shows Karlin has no idea who Armenians are and only has vague knowledge of their history.
    ‘Far less’ ?!
    Anyone heard of Artsakh/Nagorno-Karabagh?
    Do people commenting have any idea how Artsakh and historic Armenian lands were liberated?
    Anyone remember the 4-day war in April 2016 when 10s of 1,000s of volunteers from all over Armenia poured into Stepanakert to counter Azerbaijan’s invasion?
    There is no gradation such as ‘more’,’less’, ‘a little more’,….: it is black and white.

    _______
    * Paruyr Hayrikyan was bona fide Armenian patriot at first, but somewhere along the way he went off the rails, and started spouting nonsense.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    The expression ‘…certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less,…’ clearly shows Karlin has no idea who Armenians are and only has vague knowledge of their history.
     
    It's called comedic understatement.
    , @g2k
    HI do agree in general, but still: He's hardly riding the wave when he was at the forefront of the protests from the beginning, when there was no guarantee that Serzh would step dowm. The protests have now moved on from rejecting Serj to rejecting the Republicans and with Gagik not putting himself forward, theres a decent chance that Pashinyan will be pm. Now, the guy seems reasonable and if he does get into power, his base will have changed from a small clique of Yerevan yuppies and Diaspora to a decent chunk of the country and he seems to be indicating that he'll change policies to reflect this.

    It seems to me that what's happening is that the Karabakhy clan is on its way out and the Petrosyan one is returning and Serzh is just a personification of the former. Most liberal-ish Yerevantsy have always disliked Serzh, but generally put up with him. Robert Kocharyan was the one they REALLY hated.

  34. @Felix Keverich
    Poland hardest hit! :)
    https://inosmi.ru/social/20180428/242114793.html

    Bizarre that they import Polish and even Dutch potatoes. This has to be related to EU subsidies and effectively a dumping mechanism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Is there not an agricultural embargo in Russia against the EU?

    I’m surprised they were importing potatoes.
  35. @Greasy William
    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno... 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I'm really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world's most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn't mean you can't fuck them.

    2. I don't believe I've ever described Iranian women as "hot" and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren't the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. "SyrianGirl", in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as "Persians"! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only "Iranians" who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    {…Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me.}

    You can certainly go to Yerevan and try.
    But your member will be removed and placed in your non-ethnic mouth, you will be savagely beaten, and will be sent to Grease heaven to enjoy eternal bliss with whatever scum you congregate with.

    { Is she an Armo?}

    Are you a mongrel swine?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    It was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question. And you know Greasy, don’t you? Your response seems overly long and emotional.

    Ps.
    The girl is definitely attractive.
  36. @Greasy William
    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno... 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I'm really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world's most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn't mean you can't fuck them.

    2. I don't believe I've ever described Iranian women as "hot" and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren't the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. "SyrianGirl", in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as "Persians"! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only "Iranians" who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn’t mean you can’t fuck them.

    Male sexual appetite is pretty damned flexible. History and the incorporation of Neanderthal genes (as well as the existence of homosexual activity and bestiality) strongly support the existence and importance of this fact of human nature.

  37. @Avery
    {... I think you’re exaggerating how negligible it is}

    No he isn't.

    Pashinyan may be pro EU and all that, but he is just riding the populist anti-Serj wave.
    The wave will die out once it has released the accumulated steam pressure, since the polarizing figure, Serj Sargsyan, very prudently quickly resigned.
    As I noted in the other thread, he should have _never_ taken the post, but he was smart enough not to prolong his mistake.

    During the electric tariffs protests in Yerevan some years ago, another pro-EU hack - Paruyr Hayrikyan* - and a dozen of his groupies showed up with the EU flag. The youth promptly roughed the group up and ripped the EU flag to shreds. They were told no flag other than Armenia's will be allowed, and were chased away.

    During Armenia's 20th Independence anniversary military parade, a Russian contingent with Russian colors, uniforms, etc was invited by the Armenian government to march together. There was widespread talk (...actually BS) about organizing a, quote, 'massive' protest against the Russian military presence in the Independence parade. Guess how many people actually showed up? About 10-12.

    People, including Karlin, commenting about _any_ Armenian government ejecting Russians have no clue about Armenia or the people of Armenia. Let me give you an example from Karlin himself:

    {Armenians genuinely do approve of Russia, and even if they didn’t, they certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less, and with good reason – but if we do get an anti-Russian Armenian government…}

    The expression '...certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less,...' clearly shows Karlin has no idea who Armenians are and only has vague knowledge of their history.
    'Far less' ?!
    Anyone heard of Artsakh/Nagorno-Karabagh?
    Do people commenting have any idea how Artsakh and historic Armenian lands were liberated?
    Anyone remember the 4-day war in April 2016 when 10s of 1,000s of volunteers from all over Armenia poured into Stepanakert to counter Azerbaijan's invasion?
    There is no gradation such as 'more','less', 'a little more',....: it is black and white.

    _______
    * Paruyr Hayrikyan was bona fide Armenian patriot at first, but somewhere along the way he went off the rails, and started spouting nonsense.

    The expression ‘…certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less,…’ clearly shows Karlin has no idea who Armenians are and only has vague knowledge of their history.

    It’s called comedic understatement.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    And all readers not emotionally involved (and some of those involved) understood it.
  38. @Anatoly Karlin

    The expression ‘…certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less,…’ clearly shows Karlin has no idea who Armenians are and only has vague knowledge of their history.
     
    It's called comedic understatement.

    And all readers not emotionally involved (and some of those involved) understood it.

    • Agree: Talha
  39. @Avery
    {...Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me.}


    You can certainly go to Yerevan and try.
    But your member will be removed and placed in your non-ethnic mouth, you will be savagely beaten, and will be sent to Grease heaven to enjoy eternal bliss with whatever scum you congregate with.


    { Is she an Armo?}

    Are you a mongrel swine?

    It was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question. And you know Greasy, don’t you? Your response seems overly long and emotional.

    Ps.
    The girl is definitely attractive.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Something weird about her eyes though in that picture.
    , @Talha
    It’s Greasy’s ongoing schtick about who his schtick would shtup - we are all indebted to him for scharing.

    Peace.

  40. @reiner Tor
    It was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question. And you know Greasy, don’t you? Your response seems overly long and emotional.

    Ps.
    The girl is definitely attractive.

    Something weird about her eyes though in that picture.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The girl has a quite masculine facial features. Otherwise, it's healthy/attractive.

    -
    I don't speak for Greasy though.
    To me, Taylor Swift looks like the above average shopgirl (in the clothes shop, not the supermarket).


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTQjEs83SBc

    , @Toronto Russian

    Something weird about her eyes though in that picture.
     
    Photoshop. They smoothed out the skin under the eyes to an unnatural degree, like with this girl:
    http://photoshoperyof.udo.photo/uploads/s/a/1/b/a1bvve4cjzhe/img/PcvLbFs7.jpg
  41. @reiner Tor
    It was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question. And you know Greasy, don’t you? Your response seems overly long and emotional.

    Ps.
    The girl is definitely attractive.

    It’s Greasy’s ongoing schtick about who his schtick would shtup – we are all indebted to him for scharing.

    Peace.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  42. @Avery
    {... I think you’re exaggerating how negligible it is}

    No he isn't.

    Pashinyan may be pro EU and all that, but he is just riding the populist anti-Serj wave.
    The wave will die out once it has released the accumulated steam pressure, since the polarizing figure, Serj Sargsyan, very prudently quickly resigned.
    As I noted in the other thread, he should have _never_ taken the post, but he was smart enough not to prolong his mistake.

    During the electric tariffs protests in Yerevan some years ago, another pro-EU hack - Paruyr Hayrikyan* - and a dozen of his groupies showed up with the EU flag. The youth promptly roughed the group up and ripped the EU flag to shreds. They were told no flag other than Armenia's will be allowed, and were chased away.

    During Armenia's 20th Independence anniversary military parade, a Russian contingent with Russian colors, uniforms, etc was invited by the Armenian government to march together. There was widespread talk (...actually BS) about organizing a, quote, 'massive' protest against the Russian military presence in the Independence parade. Guess how many people actually showed up? About 10-12.

    People, including Karlin, commenting about _any_ Armenian government ejecting Russians have no clue about Armenia or the people of Armenia. Let me give you an example from Karlin himself:

    {Armenians genuinely do approve of Russia, and even if they didn’t, they certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less, and with good reason – but if we do get an anti-Russian Armenian government…}

    The expression '...certainly approve of Azerbaijan and Turkey far less,...' clearly shows Karlin has no idea who Armenians are and only has vague knowledge of their history.
    'Far less' ?!
    Anyone heard of Artsakh/Nagorno-Karabagh?
    Do people commenting have any idea how Artsakh and historic Armenian lands were liberated?
    Anyone remember the 4-day war in April 2016 when 10s of 1,000s of volunteers from all over Armenia poured into Stepanakert to counter Azerbaijan's invasion?
    There is no gradation such as 'more','less', 'a little more',....: it is black and white.

    _______
    * Paruyr Hayrikyan was bona fide Armenian patriot at first, but somewhere along the way he went off the rails, and started spouting nonsense.

    HI do agree in general, but still: He’s hardly riding the wave when he was at the forefront of the protests from the beginning, when there was no guarantee that Serzh would step dowm. The protests have now moved on from rejecting Serj to rejecting the Republicans and with Gagik not putting himself forward, theres a decent chance that Pashinyan will be pm. Now, the guy seems reasonable and if he does get into power, his base will have changed from a small clique of Yerevan yuppies and Diaspora to a decent chunk of the country and he seems to be indicating that he’ll change policies to reflect this.

    It seems to me that what’s happening is that the Karabakhy clan is on its way out and the Petrosyan one is returning and Serzh is just a personification of the former. Most liberal-ish Yerevantsy have always disliked Serzh, but generally put up with him. Robert Kocharyan was the one they REALLY hated.

  43. @German_reader

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe
     
    German right-wingers claim this was partly due to US pressure and Cold War politics, with stabilization of NATO ally Turkey being an important goal of allowing Turkish "guest workers" (lol) to come. I know it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory and I haven't looked into the matter myself, but it doesn't seem completely implausible to me.
    Don't have much to say about the current Armenian issue (AK doesn't seem to care much either)...bit frustrating we don't get to see how the possibly cute girl in the picture above looks from the front :-(

    I’m among the first to admit that the US has had a lot of malign influence. Western Europe’s mistakes I generally blame on Western European politicians though.

    In the case of Turkey, it strikes me that not only were Russians and Turks traditional enemies, but they had long-standing competing geostrategic concerns. Russia long wanted direct access to the Mediterranean. The Turks long wanted to retain control of the Bosphorus.

    Perhaps, there were fears of a revolution or a coup. (Turkey certainly had many coups) Supposedly, the political environment became more lax in the ’60s, and the Turkish Workers Party gained prominence.

  44. @Mitleser
    It can't be helped anymore.

    https://abload.de/img/trklnvguih.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVwiz3tXcAAcqbn.jpg

    I hate to say it but it looks as if there are more people holding Turkish flags in Germany than people holding German flags.

    • Replies: @utu
    Certainly Merkel did not like to have German flag around

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2HHgY59lGI
  45. @Dmitry
    Bizarre that they import Polish and even Dutch potatoes. This has to be related to EU subsidies and effectively a dumping mechanism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

    Is there not an agricultural embargo in Russia against the EU?

    I’m surprised they were importing potatoes.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It is surely a good question.

    It seems they were allowed to transition to localized ingredients over a several year period.

    The factory will reach full capacity by the end of 2019.

    https://sobesednik.ru/avto/20180427-makdonalds-zavershaet-process-lokalizacii-osnovnyh-kategorij-produktov

    ^ It's interesting the guy in the photo Khamzat Khasbulatov has been in charge for so long - it is the same guy interviewed in the videos (I posed a couple weeks ago here) of the original Macdonald's opening in 1991.

  46. @reiner Tor
    Is there not an agricultural embargo in Russia against the EU?

    I’m surprised they were importing potatoes.

    It is surely a good question.

    It seems they were allowed to transition to localized ingredients over a several year period.

    The factory will reach full capacity by the end of 2019.

    https://sobesednik.ru/avto/20180427-makdonalds-zavershaet-process-lokalizacii-osnovnyh-kategorij-produktov

    ^ It’s interesting the guy in the photo Khamzat Khasbulatov has been in charge for so long – it is the same guy interviewed in the videos (I posed a couple weeks ago here) of the original Macdonald’s opening in 1991.

  47. @Anon
    Something weird about her eyes though in that picture.

    The girl has a quite masculine facial features. Otherwise, it’s healthy/attractive.


    I don’t speak for Greasy though.
    To me, Taylor Swift looks like the above average shopgirl (in the clothes shop, not the supermarket).

    • Troll: Greasy William
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    For a couple of seconds I even thought she might be trans.

    3/10, Would Not Bang. Greasy has strange tastes.
    , @Johann Ricke
    Taylor Swift isn't bad-looking, but she's not unusually good-looking either. It's a weird paradox, but my impression is that women who are good-looking as blondes are better-looking as brunettes. Whereas women who are not good-looking as brunettes don't actually become good-looking as blondes, but do look somewhat better with blond hair.
  48. @Greasy William
    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno... 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I'm really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world's most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn't mean you can't fuck them.

    2. I don't believe I've ever described Iranian women as "hot" and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren't the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. "SyrianGirl", in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as "Persians"! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only "Iranians" who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls

    No there were not plenty, despite what Hollywood says. Germans soldiers did not partake in large amounts of rapes like the Russians did. As for romantic relations, this was also an exceedingly rare thing and was obviously not endorsed by society.

  49. @songbird
    I hate to say it but it looks as if there are more people holding Turkish flags in Germany than people holding German flags.

    Certainly Merkel did not like to have German flag around

    • Replies: @songbird
    I think people will look back at that as an important historical moment: she treated it almost as if she had been handed a burning, dirty diaper. It is really quite shocking, even if you are attuned to the cultural differences in Germany regarding flags.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Being a real Prussian Angela Merkel was no doubt just disgusted by the Schwarz-Rot-Scheiss flag of the gutter.

    If she were presented with the imperial colors she'd obviously respond positively. :)

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Plakat_Lasst_die_alten_Fahnen_wehn_1932.jpg

    Merkel's rapefugee blunder is really just a deep revenge conspiracy by the Bund der Vertriebenen against everyone west of the Elbe.
  50. @utu
    Certainly Merkel did not like to have German flag around

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2HHgY59lGI

    I think people will look back at that as an important historical moment: she treated it almost as if she had been handed a burning, dirty diaper. It is really quite shocking, even if you are attuned to the cultural differences in Germany regarding flags.

    • Replies: @neutral

    It is really quite shocking, even if you are attuned to the cultural differences in Germany regarding flags.
     
    Not all flags, if somebody gave her the Turkish flag she would never behave like she did with the German flag, if she did that to the jewish flag she would have been fired by her masters within days.
  51. @songbird
    I think people will look back at that as an important historical moment: she treated it almost as if she had been handed a burning, dirty diaper. It is really quite shocking, even if you are attuned to the cultural differences in Germany regarding flags.

    It is really quite shocking, even if you are attuned to the cultural differences in Germany regarding flags.

    Not all flags, if somebody gave her the Turkish flag she would never behave like she did with the German flag, if she did that to the jewish flag she would have been fired by her masters within days.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • LOL: Seamus Padraig
  52. @yevardian
    As I've said before, cultural allegiance is a fickle thing. Wiping out a culture doesn't necessarily require the elimination of its people. Turkey forced name-changes, Turkish-speaking Christians were deported to be replaced by Balkan-Muslims etc. An outright majority of the better sort of Turks are descended from such people.

    But since I know no-one cares about Armenia, we can play "would Greasy bang?" IIRC he's the one who considers Persians subhuman whilst finding their women hot?

    http://www.chi.am/images/StandardImage/arpine2.jpg

    I have heard recently that plastic surgery (mostly nose jobs) are very popular in Iran for both women and men among upper and upper middle classes. It is a status symbol but also an indication that Western beauty standard with small noses took over there. Supposedly they like to parade in public with bandages still on after surgery so people can see they got surgery .

    Iran leaps into world’s top 10 countries performing plastic surgery
    https://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/iran-leaps-into-world-s-top-10-countries-performing-plastic-surgery-1.174897
    The trend has seen the Islamic Republic jump into the world’s top 10 countries performing plastic surgery. In 2013 it ranked fourth worldwide – after Brazil, Mexico and the United States – for nose jobs, the International Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgery reported.

    According to official figures, up to 40,000 cosmetic surgeries take place in Iran each year, says Amirizad, a member of the Iranian Association of Cosmetic and Plastic Surgeons. More than 60 per cent are nose jobs.

    Q: What are the stats for nose jobs among Jewish women in the US? 50%?

    Supposedly in general statistic there is a downward trend but does it apply to Jews.

    https://jezebel.com/5916532/the-decline-of-the-jewish-girl-nose-job
    At the same time, as national rates go down, more Orthodox Jews feel comfortable getting the surgery because modern rabbis are giving them the go-ahead. One doctor said less religious Jews ask him for eyelid lifts and chin implants, but Orthodox Jews always want nose jobs. One Miami surgeon, Dr. Michael Salzhauer, recently launched a “pro-bono campaign” for single men and women in the Orthodox community — if they’re referred by their matchmakers and have their finances verified by a rabbi, they might be eligible for free rhinoplasty.

    Good example of Jewish mimicry.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    This is interesting.

    It makes you think there's also a lot of rich people in Iran, but also limitation on body that women can show.

    If you think about the surgery on the face and nose - in America the most popular surgery is breast increases.

    In Iran, this would be a waste of money, as nobody can see it. So instead the surgery is on the only part of the body that women can show.

    Orthodox Jews in America - the women also have modesty rules are very similar to Muslims, and are not allowed even to go shopping for Levis or basic clothes fashions. In addition, they have arranged marriages, but based on partly looks - after meeting the partner several times. In addition, inbreeding.

    (That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before, especially the nose which never looks good after people operated. But the breast increase operation is also usually a negative thing and really a fraud).

  53. @Dmitry
    The girl has a quite masculine facial features. Otherwise, it's healthy/attractive.

    -
    I don't speak for Greasy though.
    To me, Taylor Swift looks like the above average shopgirl (in the clothes shop, not the supermarket).


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTQjEs83SBc

    For a couple of seconds I even thought she might be trans.

    3/10, Would Not Bang. Greasy has strange tastes.

  54. @dmitry
    The mediating between two sides extends the diplomatic power and influence in the region. In addition, with Armenia there is the customs union project, supply of workforce, and location of military bases.

    On the other hand, Azerbaijan is more powerful ally for Russia, but also more changeable or less loyal one, with more options.

    The relations with Armenia and Azerbaijan are both mutually enforcing. The closer relation build with one, encourages the other to build closer relations. And likewise with armaments purchases.

    The idea that Russia-Armenia relationships are bad for Russia, is false.

    In addition, with Armenia there is the customs union project, supply of workforce, and location of military bases.

    I see this as a huge negative actually. Russia has no real need for extra workforce, particularly if it comes in the form of brown, hairy people.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well perhaps, but it was undeniable Armenians were also creating benefits - most importantly making Azerbaijan buy billions of dollars of weapons.

    However, this benefit is recently going to Belarus, instead.

    It seems now reported that Belarus has reached the deal to sell Polonez missile system to Azerbaijan.

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3606290

    Armenia is also buying a lot of weapons from Russian manufacturers, but it is often doing it on interest-free credit.
  55. @utu
    I have heard recently that plastic surgery (mostly nose jobs) are very popular in Iran for both women and men among upper and upper middle classes. It is a status symbol but also an indication that Western beauty standard with small noses took over there. Supposedly they like to parade in public with bandages still on after surgery so people can see they got surgery .

    Iran leaps into world’s top 10 countries performing plastic surgery
    https://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/iran-leaps-into-world-s-top-10-countries-performing-plastic-surgery-1.174897
    The trend has seen the Islamic Republic jump into the world’s top 10 countries performing plastic surgery. In 2013 it ranked fourth worldwide - after Brazil, Mexico and the United States - for nose jobs, the International Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgery reported.

    According to official figures, up to 40,000 cosmetic surgeries take place in Iran each year, says Amirizad, a member of the Iranian Association of Cosmetic and Plastic Surgeons. More than 60 per cent are nose jobs.
     
    Q: What are the stats for nose jobs among Jewish women in the US? 50%?

    Supposedly in general statistic there is a downward trend but does it apply to Jews.

    https://jezebel.com/5916532/the-decline-of-the-jewish-girl-nose-job
    At the same time, as national rates go down, more Orthodox Jews feel comfortable getting the surgery because modern rabbis are giving them the go-ahead. One doctor said less religious Jews ask him for eyelid lifts and chin implants, but Orthodox Jews always want nose jobs. One Miami surgeon, Dr. Michael Salzhauer, recently launched a "pro-bono campaign" for single men and women in the Orthodox community — if they're referred by their matchmakers and have their finances verified by a rabbi, they might be eligible for free rhinoplasty.
     
    Good example of Jewish mimicry.

    This is interesting.

    It makes you think there’s also a lot of rich people in Iran, but also limitation on body that women can show.

    If you think about the surgery on the face and nose – in America the most popular surgery is breast increases.

    In Iran, this would be a waste of money, as nobody can see it. So instead the surgery is on the only part of the body that women can show.

    Orthodox Jews in America – the women also have modesty rules are very similar to Muslims, and are not allowed even to go shopping for Levis or basic clothes fashions. In addition, they have arranged marriages, but based on partly looks – after meeting the partner several times. In addition, inbreeding.

    (That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before, especially the nose which never looks good after people operated. But the breast increase operation is also usually a negative thing and really a fraud).

    • Replies: @utu

    That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before
     
    You are thinking about old hags. But young Jewish girls with big schnozes look much better after surgery.

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
    https://viralsurgery.com/sarah-silverman-plastic-surgery/

    But apparently revision rhinoplasty is on the uptake among Jewish baby boomers who had nose jobs when younger. They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry. But I won't be surprised when gentile males start getting Jewish noses to improve their chance of mimicry among the Master Race.

    Jewish patients taking new look at rhinoplasty
    http://jewishjournal.com/culture/lifestyle/health/214198/jewish-patients-taking-new-look-rhinoplasty/
     
    Here is interesting article but I still can't find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.
    , @reiner Tor

    people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before, especially the nose which never looks good after people operated. But the breast increase operation is also usually a negative thing and really a fraud
     
    I fully agree.
    , @Jayce
    If you have Tinder, set it to Tehran to see some really heinous examples of botched plastic surgery. The Youtube shooter Nasim Aghdam's videos were parodying the popularity of big fake tits and other big trends on the Farsi speaking web, they make a lot more sense once you see these kinds of people:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BiFf8hbBhF0/?taken-by=timarestan.official
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh1h2aQhS8I/?taken-by=timarestan.official
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhmmb33BSC6/?taken-by=timarestan.official
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg8FNH3BRs0/?taken-by=timarestan.official
  56. @dmitry
    The mediating between two sides extends the diplomatic power and influence in the region. In addition, with Armenia there is the customs union project, supply of workforce, and location of military bases.

    On the other hand, Azerbaijan is more powerful ally for Russia, but also more changeable or less loyal one, with more options.

    The relations with Armenia and Azerbaijan are both mutually enforcing. The closer relation build with one, encourages the other to build closer relations. And likewise with armaments purchases.

    Are the two Dmitry’s (the one with the capital D and the one with the lower case d) the same? I wanted to ask before, but always forgot.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Yes it's the same - when the browser logs out I type in my name again and forgot the capital letter.
  57. @Felix Keverich

    The idea that Russia-Armenia relationships are bad for Russia, is false.
     

    In addition, with Armenia there is the customs union project, supply of workforce, and location of military bases.
     
    I see this as a huge negative actually. Russia has no real need for extra workforce, particularly if it comes in the form of brown, hairy people.

    Well perhaps, but it was undeniable Armenians were also creating benefits – most importantly making Azerbaijan buy billions of dollars of weapons.

    However, this benefit is recently going to Belarus, instead.

    It seems now reported that Belarus has reached the deal to sell Polonez missile system to Azerbaijan.

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3606290

    Armenia is also buying a lot of weapons from Russian manufacturers, but it is often doing it on interest-free credit.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    This reminds that we need some more posts (or maybe I should draft one), on recent successes of Lukashenko and Belarus in general. Even in little things, how it's noted Belarus sell weapons, without offering interest free credit.
  58. @reiner Tor
    Are the two Dmitry’s (the one with the capital D and the one with the lower case d) the same? I wanted to ask before, but always forgot.

    Yes it’s the same – when the browser logs out I type in my name again and forgot the capital letter.

  59. @utu
    Certainly Merkel did not like to have German flag around

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2HHgY59lGI

    Being a real Prussian Angela Merkel was no doubt just disgusted by the Schwarz-Rot-Scheiss flag of the gutter.

    If she were presented with the imperial colors she’d obviously respond positively. 🙂

    Merkel’s rapefugee blunder is really just a deep revenge conspiracy by the Bund der Vertriebenen against everyone west of the Elbe.

    • LOL: reiner Tor
  60. @Dmitry
    Well perhaps, but it was undeniable Armenians were also creating benefits - most importantly making Azerbaijan buy billions of dollars of weapons.

    However, this benefit is recently going to Belarus, instead.

    It seems now reported that Belarus has reached the deal to sell Polonez missile system to Azerbaijan.

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3606290

    Armenia is also buying a lot of weapons from Russian manufacturers, but it is often doing it on interest-free credit.

    This reminds that we need some more posts (or maybe I should draft one), on recent successes of Lukashenko and Belarus in general. Even in little things, how it’s noted Belarus sell weapons, without offering interest free credit.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I assume Belarus doesn't grant interest-free credit to munitions customers as its arms exports are driven by purely commercial considerations, whereas Russia and many other arms exporters treat armaments exports as a foreign policy concern.

    Japan and China also notably treat non-defense exports as foreign policy concerns. China's OBOR is well-known, but less well-known are the terms under which Japanese high speed rail is being exported to India. A 50-year 1% loan.
  61. @Dmitry
    This is interesting.

    It makes you think there's also a lot of rich people in Iran, but also limitation on body that women can show.

    If you think about the surgery on the face and nose - in America the most popular surgery is breast increases.

    In Iran, this would be a waste of money, as nobody can see it. So instead the surgery is on the only part of the body that women can show.

    Orthodox Jews in America - the women also have modesty rules are very similar to Muslims, and are not allowed even to go shopping for Levis or basic clothes fashions. In addition, they have arranged marriages, but based on partly looks - after meeting the partner several times. In addition, inbreeding.

    (That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before, especially the nose which never looks good after people operated. But the breast increase operation is also usually a negative thing and really a fraud).

    That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before

    You are thinking about old hags. But young Jewish girls with big schnozes look much better after surgery.

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
    https://viralsurgery.com/sarah-silverman-plastic-surgery/

    But apparently revision rhinoplasty is on the uptake among Jewish baby boomers who had nose jobs when younger. They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry. But I won’t be surprised when gentile males start getting Jewish noses to improve their chance of mimicry among the Master Race.

    Jewish patients taking new look at rhinoplasty
    http://jewishjournal.com/culture/lifestyle/health/214198/jewish-patients-taking-new-look-rhinoplasty/

    Here is interesting article but I still can’t find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I think people almost always look uglier after plastic surgery on the face. Also sometimes it is very obvious - like with actress Denise Richards. She becomes unattractive once you can notice her nose surgery, although other actresses might be more subtle (she's an extreme example).

    The attractiveness of a person is of course determined a lot by genetics, but this expresses itself through whole relation of the face, and changing one feature makes people look strange and less attractive.

    As for breast jobs, this is also really a fraud of surgeons, as while it makes a girl hotter when she still has clothes on; it makes them less hot without clothes, which is the only part that matters for partners.


    Here is interesting article but I still can’t find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.
     

    I don't know much about the Jews of America.

    I believe that with Israelis, it's very uncommon to see plastic surgery. This goes with their culture, where they don't care how they look, go to office in sandals, and stains on their clothes. The girls sit on the dirty pavement in the middle of the road. The richer you are there, the more messy and randomly combined clothes you are supposed to wear. And you can spot the more recent Russian-speaking immigrants in Israel from a long way away, when their clothes are too formal, or carefully combined, and wearing makeup like they put effort into it.

    , @Anatoly Karlin

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
     
    Photo actually confirms Dmitry's point.
    , @Greasy William

    They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry
     
    A lot of interesting ideas in this conversation.

    The first thing to note is that the so called Jewish nose only exists in Polish/Romanian/Russian Ashkenazism. French/German/Austrian/Czech/Hungarian Jews don't have it.

    This brings up the question of what percentage of Polish/Russian Jews "need" rhinoplasty. That is, their nose is so big as to be ugly. I would guess around 60%.

    But in 50s through 80s America, it wasn't 60% of Polish/Russian Jewish girls getting their nose done but more like 100%. So it absolutely there is a component of mimicry/status.

    My sister was way prettier before she got her nose done but she wanted a small nose like all her shiksa friends had. Iranian Jewish girls, generally regarded as some of the most beautiful women in the world, get nose jobs at a rate of nearly 100% even today.

    ...

    As for Dmitry's claim that plastic surgery makes women look worse, check out Jennifer Lawrence, Alicia Keys, Mila Kunis, Blake Lively, Scarlett Johaneson, Natalie Portman and Gal Gadot before and after photos and you will have further evidence that when in comes to the subject of female looks, better to just ignore anything Dmitry has to say.

    , @RadicalCenter
    To get ahead in large parts of the former USA, some white people will be trying to look and act Mexican, some Chinese.
    , @E

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
     
    No, I agree with Karlin, she looks much better before.

    Now granted, in the "after" she looks much more American. But I don't like the way American faces look.
  62. @Dmitry
    This reminds that we need some more posts (or maybe I should draft one), on recent successes of Lukashenko and Belarus in general. Even in little things, how it's noted Belarus sell weapons, without offering interest free credit.

    I assume Belarus doesn’t grant interest-free credit to munitions customers as its arms exports are driven by purely commercial considerations, whereas Russia and many other arms exporters treat armaments exports as a foreign policy concern.

    Japan and China also notably treat non-defense exports as foreign policy concerns. China’s OBOR is well-known, but less well-known are the terms under which Japanese high speed rail is being exported to India. A 50-year 1% loan.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    This word 'cucked' usually makes no sense to me, and in most contexts it is used here.

    But in this case, Belarus is really not 'cucked'. They aren't doing anything for free or that doesn't benefit them.

    Recently, every couple months, I read the news, and become surprised by a new story of wisdom and cleverness from Belarus.
  63. @utu

    That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before
     
    You are thinking about old hags. But young Jewish girls with big schnozes look much better after surgery.

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
    https://viralsurgery.com/sarah-silverman-plastic-surgery/

    But apparently revision rhinoplasty is on the uptake among Jewish baby boomers who had nose jobs when younger. They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry. But I won't be surprised when gentile males start getting Jewish noses to improve their chance of mimicry among the Master Race.

    Jewish patients taking new look at rhinoplasty
    http://jewishjournal.com/culture/lifestyle/health/214198/jewish-patients-taking-new-look-rhinoplasty/
     
    Here is interesting article but I still can't find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.

    I think people almost always look uglier after plastic surgery on the face. Also sometimes it is very obvious – like with actress Denise Richards. She becomes unattractive once you can notice her nose surgery, although other actresses might be more subtle (she’s an extreme example).

    The attractiveness of a person is of course determined a lot by genetics, but this expresses itself through whole relation of the face, and changing one feature makes people look strange and less attractive.

    As for breast jobs, this is also really a fraud of surgeons, as while it makes a girl hotter when she still has clothes on; it makes them less hot without clothes, which is the only part that matters for partners.

    Here is interesting article but I still can’t find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.

    I don’t know much about the Jews of America.

    I believe that with Israelis, it’s very uncommon to see plastic surgery. This goes with their culture, where they don’t care how they look, go to office in sandals, and stains on their clothes. The girls sit on the dirty pavement in the middle of the road. The richer you are there, the more messy and randomly combined clothes you are supposed to wear. And you can spot the more recent Russian-speaking immigrants in Israel from a long way away, when their clothes are too formal, or carefully combined, and wearing makeup like they put effort into it.

    • Replies: @utu

    I believe that with Israelis, it’s very uncommon to see plastic surgery. This goes with their culture, where they don’t care how they look, go to office in sandals, and stains on their clothes. The girls sit on the dirty pavement in the middle of the road. The richer you are there, the more messy and randomly combined clothes you are supposed to wear.
     
    Looks like you do not know your own Israel that well. This is what happens when one is guided more by Hasbara manual than by his own eyes. And probably you do not know much about women.

    Cosmetic surgery in Israel up by 30 percent
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/more-israelis-choose-to-undergo-cosmetic-surgery/

     


    Cut and Paste
    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4821202
    Israel is fast becoming the land of plastic surgery. Into the mixture of silicone and Botox come the media, surgeons seeking fame and fortune, journalists who don't mind being guinea pigs and savvy PR people. A nation going on 60, but dying to look 21.

    These days it has the smell of silicone. During the summer vacation, entire classes of high-school girls meet at the clinics of plastic surgeons. The big hits this summer? Breast and nose operations. And the parents and grandparents will also take advantage of the vacation for speedy recoveries from a variety of surgical procedures - upper eyelids for NIS 10,000, a face-lift for NIS 32,000; a neck for NIS 8,000.
     

    It is possible, though we do not have stats, that rhinoplasty rate might be lower in Israel than on Long Island or in the Valley. Israel girls might be under lower pressure for mimicry and have higher pride in her ethnic identity however standards of beauty are global as global are messages young people get from all kind of media to make them feel insecure.

    Plastic surgery often looks grotesque in older women but in young girls you won't be able to tell unless you go by ethnic standard like expecting big schnozes and finding a small one. But of this you need information a priori on ethnicity.

    But obviously if you prefer large schnoz, perhaps due to the power of genetic attraction or intraethnic solidarity, I won't argue with you. De gustibus non disputandum est.

  64. @utu

    That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before
     
    You are thinking about old hags. But young Jewish girls with big schnozes look much better after surgery.

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
    https://viralsurgery.com/sarah-silverman-plastic-surgery/

    But apparently revision rhinoplasty is on the uptake among Jewish baby boomers who had nose jobs when younger. They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry. But I won't be surprised when gentile males start getting Jewish noses to improve their chance of mimicry among the Master Race.

    Jewish patients taking new look at rhinoplasty
    http://jewishjournal.com/culture/lifestyle/health/214198/jewish-patients-taking-new-look-rhinoplasty/
     
    Here is interesting article but I still can't find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.

    Photo actually confirms Dmitry’s point.

    • Replies: @utu
    Confirmation bias and trying to be spiteful.
  65. @Thorfinnsson
    I assume Belarus doesn't grant interest-free credit to munitions customers as its arms exports are driven by purely commercial considerations, whereas Russia and many other arms exporters treat armaments exports as a foreign policy concern.

    Japan and China also notably treat non-defense exports as foreign policy concerns. China's OBOR is well-known, but less well-known are the terms under which Japanese high speed rail is being exported to India. A 50-year 1% loan.

    This word ‘cucked’ usually makes no sense to me, and in most contexts it is used here.

    But in this case, Belarus is really not ‘cucked’. They aren’t doing anything for free or that doesn’t benefit them.

    Recently, every couple months, I read the news, and become surprised by a new story of wisdom and cleverness from Belarus.

  66. @Dmitry
    This is interesting.

    It makes you think there's also a lot of rich people in Iran, but also limitation on body that women can show.

    If you think about the surgery on the face and nose - in America the most popular surgery is breast increases.

    In Iran, this would be a waste of money, as nobody can see it. So instead the surgery is on the only part of the body that women can show.

    Orthodox Jews in America - the women also have modesty rules are very similar to Muslims, and are not allowed even to go shopping for Levis or basic clothes fashions. In addition, they have arranged marriages, but based on partly looks - after meeting the partner several times. In addition, inbreeding.

    (That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before, especially the nose which never looks good after people operated. But the breast increase operation is also usually a negative thing and really a fraud).

    people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before, especially the nose which never looks good after people operated. But the breast increase operation is also usually a negative thing and really a fraud

    I fully agree.

  67. Anonymous[196] • Disclaimer says:
    @yevardian
    As I've said before, cultural allegiance is a fickle thing. Wiping out a culture doesn't necessarily require the elimination of its people. Turkey forced name-changes, Turkish-speaking Christians were deported to be replaced by Balkan-Muslims etc. An outright majority of the better sort of Turks are descended from such people.

    But since I know no-one cares about Armenia, we can play "would Greasy bang?" IIRC he's the one who considers Persians subhuman whilst finding their women hot?

    http://www.chi.am/images/StandardImage/arpine2.jpg

    Love that sleek, dark hair of Arab, Persian, Armenian women (and the 2-inch-thick dark bush that comes with it). When I was in my teens I only had eyes for blonde nordic women. After some experience I lost interest in them. In my 20’s I only had eyes for dark, ethnic women (South American, Middle Eastern). After some experience with them I lost interest. Now in my 30’s I only have eyes for Asian and East Asian women. And after some experience with them— now a lot of experience with them— I’m hooked for life!

    • Replies: @utu

    And after some experience with them...
     
    I thought you discovered black men.
  68. @Dmitry
    I think people almost always look uglier after plastic surgery on the face. Also sometimes it is very obvious - like with actress Denise Richards. She becomes unattractive once you can notice her nose surgery, although other actresses might be more subtle (she's an extreme example).

    The attractiveness of a person is of course determined a lot by genetics, but this expresses itself through whole relation of the face, and changing one feature makes people look strange and less attractive.

    As for breast jobs, this is also really a fraud of surgeons, as while it makes a girl hotter when she still has clothes on; it makes them less hot without clothes, which is the only part that matters for partners.


    Here is interesting article but I still can’t find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.
     

    I don't know much about the Jews of America.

    I believe that with Israelis, it's very uncommon to see plastic surgery. This goes with their culture, where they don't care how they look, go to office in sandals, and stains on their clothes. The girls sit on the dirty pavement in the middle of the road. The richer you are there, the more messy and randomly combined clothes you are supposed to wear. And you can spot the more recent Russian-speaking immigrants in Israel from a long way away, when their clothes are too formal, or carefully combined, and wearing makeup like they put effort into it.

    I believe that with Israelis, it’s very uncommon to see plastic surgery. This goes with their culture, where they don’t care how they look, go to office in sandals, and stains on their clothes. The girls sit on the dirty pavement in the middle of the road. The richer you are there, the more messy and randomly combined clothes you are supposed to wear.

    Looks like you do not know your own Israel that well. This is what happens when one is guided more by Hasbara manual than by his own eyes. And probably you do not know much about women.

    Cosmetic surgery in Israel up by 30 percent
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/more-israelis-choose-to-undergo-cosmetic-surgery/

    Cut and Paste
    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4821202
    Israel is fast becoming the land of plastic surgery. Into the mixture of silicone and Botox come the media, surgeons seeking fame and fortune, journalists who don’t mind being guinea pigs and savvy PR people. A nation going on 60, but dying to look 21.

    These days it has the smell of silicone. During the summer vacation, entire classes of high-school girls meet at the clinics of plastic surgeons. The big hits this summer? Breast and nose operations. And the parents and grandparents will also take advantage of the vacation for speedy recoveries from a variety of surgical procedures – upper eyelids for NIS 10,000, a face-lift for NIS 32,000; a neck for NIS 8,000.

    It is possible, though we do not have stats, that rhinoplasty rate might be lower in Israel than on Long Island or in the Valley. Israel girls might be under lower pressure for mimicry and have higher pride in her ethnic identity however standards of beauty are global as global are messages young people get from all kind of media to make them feel insecure.

    Plastic surgery often looks grotesque in older women but in young girls you won’t be able to tell unless you go by ethnic standard like expecting big schnozes and finding a small one. But of this you need information a priori on ethnicity.

    But obviously if you prefer large schnoz, perhaps due to the power of genetic attraction or intraethnic solidarity, I won’t argue with you. De gustibus non disputandum est.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The article mentions a rate of increase, and seems a press release from industry (union of plastic surgeons) with the aim of removing the taboo for men (the purpose is to increase male customers). No mention of numbers.

    Checking up - I am right about this country, as usual.

    Total revenue of cosmetic surgery industry in Israel is $50 million a year in 2017

    Total revenue of cosmetic surgery industry in the United States is $15 billion a year in 2017.

    Israel population in 2018 = 8.842 million

    US population in 2018 = 326 million

    On average each American citizen each year, spends over 8.3 times more on plastic surgery than each Israeli citizen does.



    -
    -
    -

    Searching in Hebrew -

    There are a total of 130 surgeons in Israel who are legally allowed to perform cosmetic surgery in Israel.

    Largest provider is 'Clalit Aesthetics.'

    44% of Israelis think that plastic surgery operations can be successful.

    The most common procedure is liposuction.

    -

    Majority of the newspaper articles in Hebrew seem negative and saying how it damages people psychologically, how it ends up in disaster, how it is related to cyberbullying.

    The media generally has responsible attitude, apart from a few press releases from the union of plastic surgeons, many articles seem to be warning not to do it and saying it is a bad idea.

    I agree with this attitude.

    Plastic surgery is generally a fraud on mentally vulnerable, if rich, people - which makes them look worse than before.

    If you following the stories in Russia recently, a lot of people are even killed by plastic surgeons.
  69. @Anonymous
    Love that sleek, dark hair of Arab, Persian, Armenian women (and the 2-inch-thick dark bush that comes with it). When I was in my teens I only had eyes for blonde nordic women. After some experience I lost interest in them. In my 20’s I only had eyes for dark, ethnic women (South American, Middle Eastern). After some experience with them I lost interest. Now in my 30’s I only have eyes for Asian and East Asian women. And after some experience with them— now a lot of experience with them— I’m hooked for life!

    And after some experience with them…

    I thought you discovered black men.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Peter Puffer
  70. @Anatoly Karlin

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
     
    Photo actually confirms Dmitry's point.

    Confirmation bias and trying to be spiteful.

  71. @utu

    That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before
     
    You are thinking about old hags. But young Jewish girls with big schnozes look much better after surgery.

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
    https://viralsurgery.com/sarah-silverman-plastic-surgery/

    But apparently revision rhinoplasty is on the uptake among Jewish baby boomers who had nose jobs when younger. They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry. But I won't be surprised when gentile males start getting Jewish noses to improve their chance of mimicry among the Master Race.

    Jewish patients taking new look at rhinoplasty
    http://jewishjournal.com/culture/lifestyle/health/214198/jewish-patients-taking-new-look-rhinoplasty/
     
    Here is interesting article but I still can't find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.

    They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry

    A lot of interesting ideas in this conversation.

    The first thing to note is that the so called Jewish nose only exists in Polish/Romanian/Russian Ashkenazism. French/German/Austrian/Czech/Hungarian Jews don’t have it.

    This brings up the question of what percentage of Polish/Russian Jews “need” rhinoplasty. That is, their nose is so big as to be ugly. I would guess around 60%.

    But in 50s through 80s America, it wasn’t 60% of Polish/Russian Jewish girls getting their nose done but more like 100%. So it absolutely there is a component of mimicry/status.

    My sister was way prettier before she got her nose done but she wanted a small nose like all her shiksa friends had. Iranian Jewish girls, generally regarded as some of the most beautiful women in the world, get nose jobs at a rate of nearly 100% even today.

    As for Dmitry’s claim that plastic surgery makes women look worse, check out Jennifer Lawrence, Alicia Keys, Mila Kunis, Blake Lively, Scarlett Johaneson, Natalie Portman and Gal Gadot before and after photos and you will have further evidence that when in comes to the subject of female looks, better to just ignore anything Dmitry has to say.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @E

    As for Dmitry’s claim that plastic surgery makes women look worse, check out Jennifer Lawrence, Alicia Keys, Mila Kunis, Blake Lively, Scarlett Johaneson, Natalie Portman and Gal Gadot before and after photos and you will have further evidence that when in comes to the subject of female looks, better to just ignore anything Dmitry has to say.
     
    Maybe about a third of those look better after, a third look better before, and the rest look no better or worse to me. Good diet and healthy lifestyle will always make a much greater impact, not just on looks but also on personality and how they carry themselves (which is at least as important).

    @ Anonymous[196]


    At 25 they all look like gorgeous supermodels. At 35 they all look like Stalin’s housekeeper.
     
    True, something in the genes makes Russians' skin seem to age really fast. I guess it historically didn't matter because by 35, a Russian woman would have already been long-married and had most if not all of the children she was going to have. Whatever it is doesn't seem to affect health or life expectancy, in any case, only looks... heck, maybe it was even evolutionarily adaptive, because men would be attracted only to the women most able to bear healthy children (after 30, risk of Down syndrome and other disorders begins rising exponentially).
  72. @utu

    I believe that with Israelis, it’s very uncommon to see plastic surgery. This goes with their culture, where they don’t care how they look, go to office in sandals, and stains on their clothes. The girls sit on the dirty pavement in the middle of the road. The richer you are there, the more messy and randomly combined clothes you are supposed to wear.
     
    Looks like you do not know your own Israel that well. This is what happens when one is guided more by Hasbara manual than by his own eyes. And probably you do not know much about women.

    Cosmetic surgery in Israel up by 30 percent
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/more-israelis-choose-to-undergo-cosmetic-surgery/

     


    Cut and Paste
    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4821202
    Israel is fast becoming the land of plastic surgery. Into the mixture of silicone and Botox come the media, surgeons seeking fame and fortune, journalists who don't mind being guinea pigs and savvy PR people. A nation going on 60, but dying to look 21.

    These days it has the smell of silicone. During the summer vacation, entire classes of high-school girls meet at the clinics of plastic surgeons. The big hits this summer? Breast and nose operations. And the parents and grandparents will also take advantage of the vacation for speedy recoveries from a variety of surgical procedures - upper eyelids for NIS 10,000, a face-lift for NIS 32,000; a neck for NIS 8,000.
     

    It is possible, though we do not have stats, that rhinoplasty rate might be lower in Israel than on Long Island or in the Valley. Israel girls might be under lower pressure for mimicry and have higher pride in her ethnic identity however standards of beauty are global as global are messages young people get from all kind of media to make them feel insecure.

    Plastic surgery often looks grotesque in older women but in young girls you won't be able to tell unless you go by ethnic standard like expecting big schnozes and finding a small one. But of this you need information a priori on ethnicity.

    But obviously if you prefer large schnoz, perhaps due to the power of genetic attraction or intraethnic solidarity, I won't argue with you. De gustibus non disputandum est.

    The article mentions a rate of increase, and seems a press release from industry (union of plastic surgeons) with the aim of removing the taboo for men (the purpose is to increase male customers). No mention of numbers.

    Checking up – I am right about this country, as usual.

    Total revenue of cosmetic surgery industry in Israel is $50 million a year in 2017

    Total revenue of cosmetic surgery industry in the United States is $15 billion a year in 2017.

    Israel population in 2018 = 8.842 million

    US population in 2018 = 326 million

    On average each American citizen each year, spends over 8.3 times more on plastic surgery than each Israeli citizen does.



    Searching in Hebrew –

    There are a total of 130 surgeons in Israel who are legally allowed to perform cosmetic surgery in Israel.

    Largest provider is ‘Clalit Aesthetics.’

    44% of Israelis think that plastic surgery operations can be successful.

    The most common procedure is liposuction.

    Majority of the newspaper articles in Hebrew seem negative and saying how it damages people psychologically, how it ends up in disaster, how it is related to cyberbullying.

    The media generally has responsible attitude, apart from a few press releases from the union of plastic surgeons, many articles seem to be warning not to do it and saying it is a bad idea.

    I agree with this attitude.

    Plastic surgery is generally a fraud on mentally vulnerable, if rich, people – which makes them look worse than before.

    If you following the stories in Russia recently, a lot of people are even killed by plastic surgeons.

    • Replies: @utu
    The number is not $15 billions but around $8. But prices are different. But I found the numbers of certified surgeons:

    Israel Society for Plastic Surgeons includes 130 members
    American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) represents 6,000 members

    which is congruent with the ratio of Israel/US populations.

    What are you arguing? That Israeli women are comely and natural straight from kibbutz and IDF untainted and with healthy body and Zionist spirit like Valentina kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters? Is this your ideal? It is OK to love your country but not like a 10 year old boy.

    You have seen some bad plastic surgery jobs and I did too but only in cases of old women. Yes, I have heard about some despicable practices in Russia (in the US I heard about similar cases) but majority of young women get good results with rhinoplasty and I believe you would not be able to tell that a particular woman had rhinoplasty in young age or some other minor adjustments. And then there is botox.
  73. As for Dmitry’s claim that plastic surgery makes women look worse, check out Jennifer Lawrence, Alicia Keys, Mila Kunis, Blake Lively, Scarlett Johaneson, Natalie Portman and Gal Gadot before and after photos and you will have further evidence that when in comes to the subject of female looks, better to just ignore anything Dmitry has to say.

    None of them look unusually beautiful today. And some of those have – evidently – not had plastic surgery, since their face is identical shape to when they were teenagers, when they also had careers and videos of them available.

    I can see a lot of plastic surgery scam sites promoting that all celebrities have surgery though.

    The times when celebrities have surgery, usually look uglier afterwards than before.

  74. @Greasy William
    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno... 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I'm really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world's most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn't mean you can't fuck them.

    2. I don't believe I've ever described Iranian women as "hot" and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren't the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. "SyrianGirl", in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as "Persians"! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only "Iranians" who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    the only “Iranians” who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    Did you stop paying to Iranian culture sometime in the 80s? I talk to loads of people living in Iran regularly and they all self-identify as “Persian” (even a couple who are actually Azeri or Mazanderani seem to like it).

    • Replies: @utu
    I think 61% in Iran are Persians but how many self-identify as Persians I do not know.
  75. @utu

    And after some experience with them...
     
    I thought you discovered black men.

    Peter Puffer

  76. Radio talk show host Michael Savage (KFSO in San Fran) on Russian women:

    At 25 they all look like gorgeous supermodels. At 35 they all look like Stalin’s housekeeper.

  77. @Dmitry
    The article mentions a rate of increase, and seems a press release from industry (union of plastic surgeons) with the aim of removing the taboo for men (the purpose is to increase male customers). No mention of numbers.

    Checking up - I am right about this country, as usual.

    Total revenue of cosmetic surgery industry in Israel is $50 million a year in 2017

    Total revenue of cosmetic surgery industry in the United States is $15 billion a year in 2017.

    Israel population in 2018 = 8.842 million

    US population in 2018 = 326 million

    On average each American citizen each year, spends over 8.3 times more on plastic surgery than each Israeli citizen does.



    -
    -
    -

    Searching in Hebrew -

    There are a total of 130 surgeons in Israel who are legally allowed to perform cosmetic surgery in Israel.

    Largest provider is 'Clalit Aesthetics.'

    44% of Israelis think that plastic surgery operations can be successful.

    The most common procedure is liposuction.

    -

    Majority of the newspaper articles in Hebrew seem negative and saying how it damages people psychologically, how it ends up in disaster, how it is related to cyberbullying.

    The media generally has responsible attitude, apart from a few press releases from the union of plastic surgeons, many articles seem to be warning not to do it and saying it is a bad idea.

    I agree with this attitude.

    Plastic surgery is generally a fraud on mentally vulnerable, if rich, people - which makes them look worse than before.

    If you following the stories in Russia recently, a lot of people are even killed by plastic surgeons.

    The number is not $15 billions but around $8. But prices are different. But I found the numbers of certified surgeons:

    Israel Society for Plastic Surgeons includes 130 members
    American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) represents 6,000 members

    which is congruent with the ratio of Israel/US populations.

    What are you arguing? That Israeli women are comely and natural straight from kibbutz and IDF untainted and with healthy body and Zionist spirit like Valentina kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters? Is this your ideal? It is OK to love your country but not like a 10 year old boy.

    You have seen some bad plastic surgery jobs and I did too but only in cases of old women. Yes, I have heard about some despicable practices in Russia (in the US I heard about similar cases) but majority of young women get good results with rhinoplasty and I believe you would not be able to tell that a particular woman had rhinoplasty in young age or some other minor adjustments. And then there is botox.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    No I'm writing down accurately.

    US expenditure $15 billion a year on plastic surgery: (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-plasticsurgery-idUSKBN16M3B1)

    Israel $50 million a year.

    So Americans per capita spends 8.3 times more on plastic surgery.

    Price list is not even available in Hebrew online - which itself is sign of a not a widely commercialized industry.

    E.g. Where is the price listed?

    http://www.hadassah-med.com/medical-care/departments/plastic-and-aesthetic-surgery

    Probably prices are similar to Europe as they are for most medical treatments there, they might be a little cheaper than the US, but it won't be dramatic.

    Personally I see it as positive for them that it has not become as fashionable as in the West. I don't think the other aspects are positive without ambiguity - people caring less about appearance


    What are you arguing? That Israeli women are comely and natural straight from kibbutz and IDF untainted and with healthy body and Zionist spirit like Valentina kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters? Is this your ideal? It is OK to love your country but not like a 10 year old boy.
     
    No, just that it is not common compared to America, as I originally said.

    A country where people on average (on average, not all, but as generality) care less about appearances can be good and bad - good (less plastic surgery), bad (less presentable people).

    Women also don't wear high heels, and many cultural differences like that (messy clothes, people driving dirty cars, etc, that if you live there will be shocked by instantly). Also country of huge cockroaches, rubbish in the streets, lack of cleaning etc.

    Some of this lack of caring of appearance is negative (and reflected in lack of care in the streets and urban appearance). It has a dual aspect (bad and good), but I am glad overall there exists a culture where there is less pressure for people to look smart. If you want that, you can go to Italy.

    You have seen some bad plastic surgery jobs and I did too but only in cases of old women. Yes, I have heard about some despicable practices in Russia (in the US I heard about similar cases) but majority of young women get good results with rhinoplasty and I believe you would not be able to tell that a particular woman had rhinoplasty in young age or some other minor adjustments. And then there is botox.
     
    The result of plastic surgery is often making most people look worse and less natural than they did before. In addition, breast increase are something really bad.

    It's often exploiting people who have mental problems, although usually rich people.

    I'm not some moralist against it - people can waste their money and damage their natural appearance if they want. But it should be mocked by the wider society, to reduce its popularity in the wider society.

    As you know Russia, women have a lot more cultural pressure to care about appearance and to look beautiful, on average. And this is leading to a lot of exploitative practices, and even regular reported deaths.

    https://360tv.ru/news/tekst/gibel-moskvichki-na-plasticheskoj-operatsii/

    https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3012677

    At the same time, there are probably people who are happy with results, and do not like their natural appearance, so I would not say to ban it.
  78. @Jayce
    the only “Iranians” who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    Did you stop paying to Iranian culture sometime in the 80s? I talk to loads of people living in Iran regularly and they all self-identify as "Persian" (even a couple who are actually Azeri or Mazanderani seem to like it).

    I think 61% in Iran are Persians but how many self-identify as Persians I do not know.

  79. @Dmitry
    This is interesting.

    It makes you think there's also a lot of rich people in Iran, but also limitation on body that women can show.

    If you think about the surgery on the face and nose - in America the most popular surgery is breast increases.

    In Iran, this would be a waste of money, as nobody can see it. So instead the surgery is on the only part of the body that women can show.

    Orthodox Jews in America - the women also have modesty rules are very similar to Muslims, and are not allowed even to go shopping for Levis or basic clothes fashions. In addition, they have arranged marriages, but based on partly looks - after meeting the partner several times. In addition, inbreeding.

    (That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before, especially the nose which never looks good after people operated. But the breast increase operation is also usually a negative thing and really a fraud).

    If you have Tinder, set it to Tehran to see some really heinous examples of botched plastic surgery. The Youtube shooter Nasim Aghdam’s videos were parodying the popularity of big fake tits and other big trends on the Farsi speaking web, they make a lot more sense once you see these kinds of people:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BiFf8hbBhF0/?taken-by=timarestan.official
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh1h2aQhS8I/?taken-by=timarestan.official
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhmmb33BSC6/?taken-by=timarestan.official
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg8FNH3BRs0/?taken-by=timarestan.official

    • Replies: @yevardian
    Well, I guess you can always keep dating tiny southeast asian girls with your buddehs in the alt-right then, your disavowal of them since they stopped being 'the cool new thing' notwithstanding.
    So now you've latched on to marginal Russian 'nationalists' like Kholmogorov and praising cold-warrior boomer heroes like Solzhenitsyn, despite that the latter's worldview was completely antithetical to yours except for despising the Russian people whilst posing as a Russian saviour. Glossy knows you better than any other commenter here, I doubt his vitriol came out of nowhere, being the very mild-mannered person that he is. A shame, because years ago, you used to write very interesting articles.

    That you really think Armenia of all countries could defect shows how out of touch you are with the pulse of the region, like Serbia or Belarus, the population of the country is probably more Russophile than Russia itself. The state is not important enough to support a liberast faction and all the hubbub is coming from that people have had enough of the crook Sargysyan, no more no less.
  80. @utu

    That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before
     
    You are thinking about old hags. But young Jewish girls with big schnozes look much better after surgery.

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
    https://viralsurgery.com/sarah-silverman-plastic-surgery/

    But apparently revision rhinoplasty is on the uptake among Jewish baby boomers who had nose jobs when younger. They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry. But I won't be surprised when gentile males start getting Jewish noses to improve their chance of mimicry among the Master Race.

    Jewish patients taking new look at rhinoplasty
    http://jewishjournal.com/culture/lifestyle/health/214198/jewish-patients-taking-new-look-rhinoplasty/
     
    Here is interesting article but I still can't find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.

    To get ahead in large parts of the former USA, some white people will be trying to look and act Mexican, some Chinese.

  81. @Anon
    Something weird about her eyes though in that picture.

    Something weird about her eyes though in that picture.

    Photoshop. They smoothed out the skin under the eyes to an unnatural degree, like with this girl:

  82. @Jayce
    If you have Tinder, set it to Tehran to see some really heinous examples of botched plastic surgery. The Youtube shooter Nasim Aghdam's videos were parodying the popularity of big fake tits and other big trends on the Farsi speaking web, they make a lot more sense once you see these kinds of people:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BiFf8hbBhF0/?taken-by=timarestan.official
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh1h2aQhS8I/?taken-by=timarestan.official
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhmmb33BSC6/?taken-by=timarestan.official
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg8FNH3BRs0/?taken-by=timarestan.official

    Well, I guess you can always keep dating tiny southeast asian girls with your buddehs in the alt-right then, your disavowal of them since they stopped being ‘the cool new thing’ notwithstanding.
    So now you’ve latched on to marginal Russian ‘nationalists’ like Kholmogorov and praising cold-warrior boomer heroes like Solzhenitsyn, despite that the latter’s worldview was completely antithetical to yours except for despising the Russian people whilst posing as a Russian saviour. Glossy knows you better than any other commenter here, I doubt his vitriol came out of nowhere, being the very mild-mannered person that he is. A shame, because years ago, you used to write very interesting articles.

    That you really think Armenia of all countries could defect shows how out of touch you are with the pulse of the region, like Serbia or Belarus, the population of the country is probably more Russophile than Russia itself. The state is not important enough to support a liberast faction and all the hubbub is coming from that people have had enough of the crook Sargysyan, no more no less.

    • Replies: @Anon
    This post sounds deranged, but probably only because you meant to reply to someone else?
  83. 2310113

    You replied to the wrong post. My post that you replied to concerned the arms exports of Belarus.

    I don’t have an opinion on Sarah Silverman’s plastic surgery.

    That said I will say that well done plastic surgery, outside of large-scale breast enhancement, is hard to notice.

  84. @utu

    That said, people usually look worse after plastic surgery than before
     
    You are thinking about old hags. But young Jewish girls with big schnozes look much better after surgery.

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.
    https://viralsurgery.com/sarah-silverman-plastic-surgery/

    But apparently revision rhinoplasty is on the uptake among Jewish baby boomers who had nose jobs when younger. They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry. But I won't be surprised when gentile males start getting Jewish noses to improve their chance of mimicry among the Master Race.

    Jewish patients taking new look at rhinoplasty
    http://jewishjournal.com/culture/lifestyle/health/214198/jewish-patients-taking-new-look-rhinoplasty/
     
    Here is interesting article but I still can't find stats how many Jewish girls get nose jobs.

    https://forward.com/culture/322317/how-the-all-american-nose-job-got-a-makeover/

    I would say it is 30%.

    Sarah Silverman before surgery was OK but still better after.

    No, I agree with Karlin, she looks much better before.

    Now granted, in the “after” she looks much more American. But I don’t like the way American faces look.

  85. @utu
    The number is not $15 billions but around $8. But prices are different. But I found the numbers of certified surgeons:

    Israel Society for Plastic Surgeons includes 130 members
    American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) represents 6,000 members

    which is congruent with the ratio of Israel/US populations.

    What are you arguing? That Israeli women are comely and natural straight from kibbutz and IDF untainted and with healthy body and Zionist spirit like Valentina kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters? Is this your ideal? It is OK to love your country but not like a 10 year old boy.

    You have seen some bad plastic surgery jobs and I did too but only in cases of old women. Yes, I have heard about some despicable practices in Russia (in the US I heard about similar cases) but majority of young women get good results with rhinoplasty and I believe you would not be able to tell that a particular woman had rhinoplasty in young age or some other minor adjustments. And then there is botox.

    No I’m writing down accurately.

    US expenditure $15 billion a year on plastic surgery: (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-plasticsurgery-idUSKBN16M3B1)

    Israel $50 million a year.

    So Americans per capita spends 8.3 times more on plastic surgery.

    Price list is not even available in Hebrew online – which itself is sign of a not a widely commercialized industry.

    E.g. Where is the price listed?

    http://www.hadassah-med.com/medical-care/departments/plastic-and-aesthetic-surgery

    Probably prices are similar to Europe as they are for most medical treatments there, they might be a little cheaper than the US, but it won’t be dramatic.

    Personally I see it as positive for them that it has not become as fashionable as in the West. I don’t think the other aspects are positive without ambiguity – people caring less about appearance

    What are you arguing? That Israeli women are comely and natural straight from kibbutz and IDF untainted and with healthy body and Zionist spirit like Valentina kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters? Is this your ideal? It is OK to love your country but not like a 10 year old boy.

    No, just that it is not common compared to America, as I originally said.

    A country where people on average (on average, not all, but as generality) care less about appearances can be good and bad – good (less plastic surgery), bad (less presentable people).

    Women also don’t wear high heels, and many cultural differences like that (messy clothes, people driving dirty cars, etc, that if you live there will be shocked by instantly). Also country of huge cockroaches, rubbish in the streets, lack of cleaning etc.

    Some of this lack of caring of appearance is negative (and reflected in lack of care in the streets and urban appearance). It has a dual aspect (bad and good), but I am glad overall there exists a culture where there is less pressure for people to look smart. If you want that, you can go to Italy.

    You have seen some bad plastic surgery jobs and I did too but only in cases of old women. Yes, I have heard about some despicable practices in Russia (in the US I heard about similar cases) but majority of young women get good results with rhinoplasty and I believe you would not be able to tell that a particular woman had rhinoplasty in young age or some other minor adjustments. And then there is botox.

    The result of plastic surgery is often making most people look worse and less natural than they did before. In addition, breast increase are something really bad.

    It’s often exploiting people who have mental problems, although usually rich people.

    I’m not some moralist against it – people can waste their money and damage their natural appearance if they want. But it should be mocked by the wider society, to reduce its popularity in the wider society.

    As you know Russia, women have a lot more cultural pressure to care about appearance and to look beautiful, on average. And this is leading to a lot of exploitative practices, and even regular reported deaths.

    https://360tv.ru/news/tekst/gibel-moskvichki-na-plasticheskoj-operatsii/

    https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3012677

    At the same time, there are probably people who are happy with results, and do not like their natural appearance, so I would not say to ban it.

    • Replies: @utu
    I do not have prices. But you missed two numbers I gave 130 and 6000 of certified plastic surgeons in Israel and USA, respectively. Assuming that doctors in the US and Israel have the same work load it means that there is similar number of surgeries per capita in both countries.

    As far $15 I saw $8

    Americans spent $8 billion on plastic surgery in 2016
    http://www.businessinsider.com/plastic-surgery-growth-statistics-facts-2016-2017-5

    but this is irrelevant if you go with numbers of surgeons argument as I prefer because it is price independent. Still we won't now absolute numbers of rhinoplasties because it may differ as other procedures might be more popular in one country than another. But I am willing to go with that on the basis on number of doctors the rates are similar, however I would agree that on the basis of cultural differences and social circumstances I would expect the rate would be lower in Israel.

    I would say European women and, I assume, Russian as well used to dress up when leaving home for any reason while America women always were more casual to the point of disrespect like going to the store in pajama (students) or unmade hair. I haven't been to Israel but it would make sense to me that Israel's founders and first settlers' ethos was to be farmers and to break away with customs of old rotten Europe and poor shtetls and thus they would be more casual in dress and behavior. Probably they also brought with themselves some tendency to messiness for which they were known in Eastern European shtetls. Also the factor of emancipation of women, after all the old Zionist were very left wing. Then the warm climate that favors the casual dress. Many Israeli leaders did not wear ties, right? But women are women and one can't change their nature. They want to look good, they compete with other women and they want to attract men and then in their teens they are insecure and can be easily influenced often by mothers like in America who pressure daughters to have a nose job. And then there is the globalization with the great Gleichschaltung after which everybody everywhere will think the same thoughts and have the same values and the same beauty standards and so on.
  86. @yevardian
    Well, I guess you can always keep dating tiny southeast asian girls with your buddehs in the alt-right then, your disavowal of them since they stopped being 'the cool new thing' notwithstanding.
    So now you've latched on to marginal Russian 'nationalists' like Kholmogorov and praising cold-warrior boomer heroes like Solzhenitsyn, despite that the latter's worldview was completely antithetical to yours except for despising the Russian people whilst posing as a Russian saviour. Glossy knows you better than any other commenter here, I doubt his vitriol came out of nowhere, being the very mild-mannered person that he is. A shame, because years ago, you used to write very interesting articles.

    That you really think Armenia of all countries could defect shows how out of touch you are with the pulse of the region, like Serbia or Belarus, the population of the country is probably more Russophile than Russia itself. The state is not important enough to support a liberast faction and all the hubbub is coming from that people have had enough of the crook Sargysyan, no more no less.

    This post sounds deranged, but probably only because you meant to reply to someone else?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Just some inscrutable whining on the basis of a NY Jew with a midlife crisis deciding that my lack of enthusiasm for the USSR (which he emigrated from) makes me a neocon/liberal/Russophobe, or whatever.
  87. E says:
    @Greasy William

    They do not want to look like Episcopalians and want to look more Jewish now. Interesting trend. It may have something to do that the Jewish success moved to the phase of comfort and triumphalism though I am pretty sure Jewish girls still doing nose jobs. It is about beauty not mimicry
     
    A lot of interesting ideas in this conversation.

    The first thing to note is that the so called Jewish nose only exists in Polish/Romanian/Russian Ashkenazism. French/German/Austrian/Czech/Hungarian Jews don't have it.

    This brings up the question of what percentage of Polish/Russian Jews "need" rhinoplasty. That is, their nose is so big as to be ugly. I would guess around 60%.

    But in 50s through 80s America, it wasn't 60% of Polish/Russian Jewish girls getting their nose done but more like 100%. So it absolutely there is a component of mimicry/status.

    My sister was way prettier before she got her nose done but she wanted a small nose like all her shiksa friends had. Iranian Jewish girls, generally regarded as some of the most beautiful women in the world, get nose jobs at a rate of nearly 100% even today.

    ...

    As for Dmitry's claim that plastic surgery makes women look worse, check out Jennifer Lawrence, Alicia Keys, Mila Kunis, Blake Lively, Scarlett Johaneson, Natalie Portman and Gal Gadot before and after photos and you will have further evidence that when in comes to the subject of female looks, better to just ignore anything Dmitry has to say.

    As for Dmitry’s claim that plastic surgery makes women look worse, check out Jennifer Lawrence, Alicia Keys, Mila Kunis, Blake Lively, Scarlett Johaneson, Natalie Portman and Gal Gadot before and after photos and you will have further evidence that when in comes to the subject of female looks, better to just ignore anything Dmitry has to say.

    Maybe about a third of those look better after, a third look better before, and the rest look no better or worse to me. Good diet and healthy lifestyle will always make a much greater impact, not just on looks but also on personality and how they carry themselves (which is at least as important).

    @ Anonymous[196]

    At 25 they all look like gorgeous supermodels. At 35 they all look like Stalin’s housekeeper.

    True, something in the genes makes Russians’ skin seem to age really fast. I guess it historically didn’t matter because by 35, a Russian woman would have already been long-married and had most if not all of the children she was going to have. Whatever it is doesn’t seem to affect health or life expectancy, in any case, only looks… heck, maybe it was even evolutionarily adaptive, because men would be attracted only to the women most able to bear healthy children (after 30, risk of Down syndrome and other disorders begins rising exponentially).

  88. @Anon
    This post sounds deranged, but probably only because you meant to reply to someone else?

    Just some inscrutable whining on the basis of a NY Jew with a midlife crisis deciding that my lack of enthusiasm for the USSR (which he emigrated from) makes me a neocon/liberal/Russophobe, or whatever.

  89. @Annatar
    It has always astonished me how the population trajectories of Turkey and Greece, 2 nations with similar levels of GDP per capita currently and a fairly similar culture diverged so much over the course of the 20th century, in 1928, Greece had 6.2m inhabitants compared to Turkey's 14m, a 2.3:1 ratio in favor of Turkey. By 2000, Greece had 10.9m whereas Turkey had 68m, a 6.2:1 ratio, nearly a tripling and as of 2017, Greece had 10.8m as vs Turkey's 81m, a ratio of 7.5:1. Istanbul alone now has more people then the entire of Greece and a bigger economy as well.

    Incorrect. Despite the crisis, Greek GDP per capital remains 80% higher than Turkey’s on a current USD basis. Also, of Turkey’s 80m people about 20-25% are Kurds. Also, about 20% are Alevi . That makes the core Turkish Sunni population about 48m. Lastly, their culture differs radically.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Kurds are Sunni (traditionally Shafi'i school - having produced some of its greatest authorities) - please check your source.

    Peace.
  90. @Hermes
    Incorrect. Despite the crisis, Greek GDP per capital remains 80% higher than Turkey's on a current USD basis. Also, of Turkey's 80m people about 20-25% are Kurds. Also, about 20% are Alevi . That makes the core Turkish Sunni population about 48m. Lastly, their culture differs radically.

    Kurds are Sunni (traditionally Shafi’i school – having produced some of its greatest authorities) – please check your source.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    He meant that the “core Sunni Turkish population” (i.e. those who are both Sunni and Turkish, i.e. the core population) are only 48M.
  91. @Dmitry
    No I'm writing down accurately.

    US expenditure $15 billion a year on plastic surgery: (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-plasticsurgery-idUSKBN16M3B1)

    Israel $50 million a year.

    So Americans per capita spends 8.3 times more on plastic surgery.

    Price list is not even available in Hebrew online - which itself is sign of a not a widely commercialized industry.

    E.g. Where is the price listed?

    http://www.hadassah-med.com/medical-care/departments/plastic-and-aesthetic-surgery

    Probably prices are similar to Europe as they are for most medical treatments there, they might be a little cheaper than the US, but it won't be dramatic.

    Personally I see it as positive for them that it has not become as fashionable as in the West. I don't think the other aspects are positive without ambiguity - people caring less about appearance


    What are you arguing? That Israeli women are comely and natural straight from kibbutz and IDF untainted and with healthy body and Zionist spirit like Valentina kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters? Is this your ideal? It is OK to love your country but not like a 10 year old boy.
     
    No, just that it is not common compared to America, as I originally said.

    A country where people on average (on average, not all, but as generality) care less about appearances can be good and bad - good (less plastic surgery), bad (less presentable people).

    Women also don't wear high heels, and many cultural differences like that (messy clothes, people driving dirty cars, etc, that if you live there will be shocked by instantly). Also country of huge cockroaches, rubbish in the streets, lack of cleaning etc.

    Some of this lack of caring of appearance is negative (and reflected in lack of care in the streets and urban appearance). It has a dual aspect (bad and good), but I am glad overall there exists a culture where there is less pressure for people to look smart. If you want that, you can go to Italy.

    You have seen some bad plastic surgery jobs and I did too but only in cases of old women. Yes, I have heard about some despicable practices in Russia (in the US I heard about similar cases) but majority of young women get good results with rhinoplasty and I believe you would not be able to tell that a particular woman had rhinoplasty in young age or some other minor adjustments. And then there is botox.
     
    The result of plastic surgery is often making most people look worse and less natural than they did before. In addition, breast increase are something really bad.

    It's often exploiting people who have mental problems, although usually rich people.

    I'm not some moralist against it - people can waste their money and damage their natural appearance if they want. But it should be mocked by the wider society, to reduce its popularity in the wider society.

    As you know Russia, women have a lot more cultural pressure to care about appearance and to look beautiful, on average. And this is leading to a lot of exploitative practices, and even regular reported deaths.

    https://360tv.ru/news/tekst/gibel-moskvichki-na-plasticheskoj-operatsii/

    https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3012677

    At the same time, there are probably people who are happy with results, and do not like their natural appearance, so I would not say to ban it.

    I do not have prices. But you missed two numbers I gave 130 and 6000 of certified plastic surgeons in Israel and USA, respectively. Assuming that doctors in the US and Israel have the same work load it means that there is similar number of surgeries per capita in both countries.

    As far $15 I saw $8

    Americans spent $8 billion on plastic surgery in 2016
    http://www.businessinsider.com/plastic-surgery-growth-statistics-facts-2016-2017-5

    but this is irrelevant if you go with numbers of surgeons argument as I prefer because it is price independent. Still we won’t now absolute numbers of rhinoplasties because it may differ as other procedures might be more popular in one country than another. But I am willing to go with that on the basis on number of doctors the rates are similar, however I would agree that on the basis of cultural differences and social circumstances I would expect the rate would be lower in Israel.

    I would say European women and, I assume, Russian as well used to dress up when leaving home for any reason while America women always were more casual to the point of disrespect like going to the store in pajama (students) or unmade hair. I haven’t been to Israel but it would make sense to me that Israel’s founders and first settlers’ ethos was to be farmers and to break away with customs of old rotten Europe and poor shtetls and thus they would be more casual in dress and behavior. Probably they also brought with themselves some tendency to messiness for which they were known in Eastern European shtetls. Also the factor of emancipation of women, after all the old Zionist were very left wing. Then the warm climate that favors the casual dress. Many Israeli leaders did not wear ties, right? But women are women and one can’t change their nature. They want to look good, they compete with other women and they want to attract men and then in their teens they are insecure and can be easily influenced often by mothers like in America who pressure daughters to have a nose job. And then there is the globalization with the great Gleichschaltung after which everybody everywhere will think the same thoughts and have the same values and the same beauty standards and so on.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Much of 130 who are licensed to perform plastic surgery, will not be working exclusively in vanity surgery - it looks a extra job like how they earn extra money.

    Look at the plastic surgery departments, like at the most famous hospital Hadassah, linked above. The surgeons call the department for doing breast reconstruction after breast cancer. But they also offer the aesthetic breast increase surgery Which makes sense as the medical system in Israel is public-private partnership (the hospitals try to make extra money with this private aesthetic surgery, and have private secretaries to contact).

    Look at the CVs of plastic surgeons - they have separate contact detail and clinic for 'private service' (the private service is their side-job to earn money)
    http://www.hadassah-med.com/doctors/prof-margulis-alexander.aspx
    http://www.hadassah-med.com/doctors/dr-adler-neta.aspx
    http://www.hadassah-med.com/doctors/dr-amar-dalit.aspx

    I don't know why you were attacking my comment earlier, when I write down everything with a lot of accuracy.

    On the cultural level, Israel is causal and unaesthetic, so there's expectedly less pressure on physical appearance than in equivalent income/Western countries, or even many countries with lower income. Women are also much more tomboys. Obviously plenty of people are exceptions, and human nature is constant, but the general culture is less aesthetic and more informal, and people walk out in pajamas.

    That has both good and bad points, as you imagine.

    Aesthetic cultures, like Italy or Brazil - have both good and bad points. For the tourist, it's nicer to see carefully dressed people that are presentable, rather than shabby people like in Israel. But for the person who lives in the culture, there can be a lot of pressure to always look good, and in countries like Brazil one symptom is terrible plastic surgery that goes out of control.

    The issue of Iran is very interesting though. I would imagine they also have strong gender role there - with Iranian women expected to be feminine or beautiful.
  92. @Talha
    Kurds are Sunni (traditionally Shafi'i school - having produced some of its greatest authorities) - please check your source.

    Peace.

    He meant that the “core Sunni Turkish population” (i.e. those who are both Sunni and Turkish, i.e. the core population) are only 48M.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Ah - OK - good point. I stand corrected.

    Peace.
  93. @reiner Tor
    He meant that the “core Sunni Turkish population” (i.e. those who are both Sunni and Turkish, i.e. the core population) are only 48M.

    Ah – OK – good point. I stand corrected.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hermes
    Although, the Kurds are primarily Sunni (there are Alevi Kurds) they are a distinctly different ethnicity than Sunni Turks despite repressive Turkish assimilationist policy i.e. Mountain Turk concept, enacted since the establishment of the Turkish Republic. The reason I point that out is that access to various forms of communication is strengthening Kurdish identity. Alevi identity formation, which is more religious than ethnic, is probably 20-30 years behind Kurdish but is also becoming more distinct.
  94. @utu
    I do not have prices. But you missed two numbers I gave 130 and 6000 of certified plastic surgeons in Israel and USA, respectively. Assuming that doctors in the US and Israel have the same work load it means that there is similar number of surgeries per capita in both countries.

    As far $15 I saw $8

    Americans spent $8 billion on plastic surgery in 2016
    http://www.businessinsider.com/plastic-surgery-growth-statistics-facts-2016-2017-5

    but this is irrelevant if you go with numbers of surgeons argument as I prefer because it is price independent. Still we won't now absolute numbers of rhinoplasties because it may differ as other procedures might be more popular in one country than another. But I am willing to go with that on the basis on number of doctors the rates are similar, however I would agree that on the basis of cultural differences and social circumstances I would expect the rate would be lower in Israel.

    I would say European women and, I assume, Russian as well used to dress up when leaving home for any reason while America women always were more casual to the point of disrespect like going to the store in pajama (students) or unmade hair. I haven't been to Israel but it would make sense to me that Israel's founders and first settlers' ethos was to be farmers and to break away with customs of old rotten Europe and poor shtetls and thus they would be more casual in dress and behavior. Probably they also brought with themselves some tendency to messiness for which they were known in Eastern European shtetls. Also the factor of emancipation of women, after all the old Zionist were very left wing. Then the warm climate that favors the casual dress. Many Israeli leaders did not wear ties, right? But women are women and one can't change their nature. They want to look good, they compete with other women and they want to attract men and then in their teens they are insecure and can be easily influenced often by mothers like in America who pressure daughters to have a nose job. And then there is the globalization with the great Gleichschaltung after which everybody everywhere will think the same thoughts and have the same values and the same beauty standards and so on.

    Much of 130 who are licensed to perform plastic surgery, will not be working exclusively in vanity surgery – it looks a extra job like how they earn extra money.

    Look at the plastic surgery departments, like at the most famous hospital Hadassah, linked above. The surgeons call the department for doing breast reconstruction after breast cancer. But they also offer the aesthetic breast increase surgery Which makes sense as the medical system in Israel is public-private partnership (the hospitals try to make extra money with this private aesthetic surgery, and have private secretaries to contact).

    Look at the CVs of plastic surgeons – they have separate contact detail and clinic for ‘private service’ (the private service is their side-job to earn money)
    http://www.hadassah-med.com/doctors/prof-margulis-alexander.aspx
    http://www.hadassah-med.com/doctors/dr-adler-neta.aspx
    http://www.hadassah-med.com/doctors/dr-amar-dalit.aspx

    I don’t know why you were attacking my comment earlier, when I write down everything with a lot of accuracy.

    On the cultural level, Israel is causal and unaesthetic, so there’s expectedly less pressure on physical appearance than in equivalent income/Western countries, or even many countries with lower income. Women are also much more tomboys. Obviously plenty of people are exceptions, and human nature is constant, but the general culture is less aesthetic and more informal, and people walk out in pajamas.

    That has both good and bad points, as you imagine.

    Aesthetic cultures, like Italy or Brazil – have both good and bad points. For the tourist, it’s nicer to see carefully dressed people that are presentable, rather than shabby people like in Israel. But for the person who lives in the culture, there can be a lot of pressure to always look good, and in countries like Brazil one symptom is terrible plastic surgery that goes out of control.

    The issue of Iran is very interesting though. I would imagine they also have strong gender role there – with Iranian women expected to be feminine or beautiful.

  95. You are becoming tiresome. You try to make and argument that because of this:

    Much of 130 who are licensed to perform plastic surgery, will not be working exclusively in vanity surgery – it looks a extra job like how they earn extra money.

    using numbers of doctors is not valid or not accurate. To close this argument you would have to demonstrate that American doctors do not engage in similar double practice as Israeli doctors.

    You could have argued that Israeli doctors have to serve in IDF and go and beat up some Palestinians now and then and that make them less productive in nose jobs. They crash some head instead do fixing them.

    I will repeat my point: For various cultural reasons (mostly because Israelis are hicks) one can hypothesize that number of rhinoplasties (and other beautifying procedures) in Israel is lower than in the US among American Jews. Whether it is so we do not know because we do not have access to direct data. On one hand Israelis seem to spend less on plastic surgeries but on the other hand the numbers of certified plastic surgeons in Israel and the US are similar on the per capita basis.

    Are Israeli hicks and is this the chief reason you like them? Is it the allure of Valentina kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters? If so you might be guilty of harboring some fascist tendencies. At least in aesthetic domain.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The spending is 8.3 times less per capita. (In my opinion a good thing)

    The prices don't seem that much different.
    E.g. To look at the only price list I found.

    The first operation on the list -
    Upper eyelid surgery -
    Israel price - between $2000-$2700

    https://medicart.co.il/%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%97%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%A4%D7%9C%D7%A1%D7%98%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D

    US price - $2,500
    https://wmhsplasticsurgery.com/how-much-eyelid-surgery-cost/


    I could run through all the different procedures in the first list if you want me to, but I think this argument has very pedantic.

    I don't know if you've been to America - but for most things in America, the prices are actually not higher than in the rest of the world, and in many areas life is cheaper.


    If so you might be guilty of harboring some fascist tendencies. At least in aesthetic domain.

     

    No I appreciate cultural differences. Countries like Italy, where people wear beautiful suits and elegant. Or in a wealthy part of Paris, where people are looking very sophisticated. And the women are very feminine and follow the latest modes.

    About Israel, I like that people are unmannerly and most people don't care how they dress, often shabby, and even businessmen are not wearing suits. And where women are often very tomboy.

    I prefer that the different cultures remain different. It's also good the Muslim world has its own traditions. My view is the opposite of fascist.

    On the issue of plastic surgery - it should be not encouraged in society, People should be natural, and look better if they keep their natural features. Women can be mentally ill about their own appearances, and plastic surgery industry exploits this, without actually delivering improvement.

    On the issue of how fashion and people caring about clothes in general, it is something charming.

    But the fact some cultures, like Italian people are dressing beautifully, - it's also a lot of hard work for them and surely many even find it stressful the cultural focus on physical appearance and to look perfect all day.

  96. @Dmitry
    The girl has a quite masculine facial features. Otherwise, it's healthy/attractive.

    -
    I don't speak for Greasy though.
    To me, Taylor Swift looks like the above average shopgirl (in the clothes shop, not the supermarket).


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTQjEs83SBc

    Taylor Swift isn’t bad-looking, but she’s not unusually good-looking either. It’s a weird paradox, but my impression is that women who are good-looking as blondes are better-looking as brunettes. Whereas women who are not good-looking as brunettes don’t actually become good-looking as blondes, but do look somewhat better with blond hair.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    sorry I only meant to call you a troll once. Not sure why it happened 5 times.
    , @Dmitry
    She is not beautiful. She is just good looking, within normal range, which means fans can see her as normal or 'like them'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONzy815YEhA

  97. @utu
    You are becoming tiresome. You try to make and argument that because of this:

    Much of 130 who are licensed to perform plastic surgery, will not be working exclusively in vanity surgery – it looks a extra job like how they earn extra money.
     
    using numbers of doctors is not valid or not accurate. To close this argument you would have to demonstrate that American doctors do not engage in similar double practice as Israeli doctors.

    You could have argued that Israeli doctors have to serve in IDF and go and beat up some Palestinians now and then and that make them less productive in nose jobs. They crash some head instead do fixing them.

    I will repeat my point: For various cultural reasons (mostly because Israelis are hicks) one can hypothesize that number of rhinoplasties (and other beautifying procedures) in Israel is lower than in the US among American Jews. Whether it is so we do not know because we do not have access to direct data. On one hand Israelis seem to spend less on plastic surgeries but on the other hand the numbers of certified plastic surgeons in Israel and the US are similar on the per capita basis.

    Are Israeli hicks and is this the chief reason you like them? Is it the allure of Valentina kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters? If so you might be guilty of harboring some fascist tendencies. At least in aesthetic domain.

    The spending is 8.3 times less per capita. (In my opinion a good thing)

    The prices don’t seem that much different.
    E.g. To look at the only price list I found.

    The first operation on the list –
    Upper eyelid surgery –
    Israel price – between $2000-$2700

    https://medicart.co.il/%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%97%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%A4%D7%9C%D7%A1%D7%98%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D

    US price – $2,500
    https://wmhsplasticsurgery.com/how-much-eyelid-surgery-cost/

    I could run through all the different procedures in the first list if you want me to, but I think this argument has very pedantic.

    I don’t know if you’ve been to America – but for most things in America, the prices are actually not higher than in the rest of the world, and in many areas life is cheaper.

    If so you might be guilty of harboring some fascist tendencies. At least in aesthetic domain.

    No I appreciate cultural differences. Countries like Italy, where people wear beautiful suits and elegant. Or in a wealthy part of Paris, where people are looking very sophisticated. And the women are very feminine and follow the latest modes.

    About Israel, I like that people are unmannerly and most people don’t care how they dress, often shabby, and even businessmen are not wearing suits. And where women are often very tomboy.

    I prefer that the different cultures remain different. It’s also good the Muslim world has its own traditions. My view is the opposite of fascist.

    On the issue of plastic surgery – it should be not encouraged in society, People should be natural, and look better if they keep their natural features. Women can be mentally ill about their own appearances, and plastic surgery industry exploits this, without actually delivering improvement.

    On the issue of how fashion and people caring about clothes in general, it is something charming.

    But the fact some cultures, like Italian people are dressing beautifully, – it’s also a lot of hard work for them and surely many even find it stressful the cultural focus on physical appearance and to look perfect all day.

    • Replies: @utu

    The spending is 8.3 times less per capita.
     
    Why do you keep repeating this number? It is not credible.
    , @AaronB
    Caring about physical appearance and presentation - beauty, dignity - is a sign of spiritual health. It is culture. Jewish slovenliness is a a sickness, and certainly standards of dress in America declined with culture and religion.

    Like everything, it can go too far and become shallow. But ugliness should not be celebrated.

    One way the Zionists sought to lift Jews up from the degradation of the diaspora Jew is a renewed concern with physical appearance, and Israel may be casual, but they are concerned with looking good. They are much better looking than American Jews, and are aware of it and proud of if.
  98. @Dmitry
    The spending is 8.3 times less per capita. (In my opinion a good thing)

    The prices don't seem that much different.
    E.g. To look at the only price list I found.

    The first operation on the list -
    Upper eyelid surgery -
    Israel price - between $2000-$2700

    https://medicart.co.il/%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%97%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%A4%D7%9C%D7%A1%D7%98%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D

    US price - $2,500
    https://wmhsplasticsurgery.com/how-much-eyelid-surgery-cost/


    I could run through all the different procedures in the first list if you want me to, but I think this argument has very pedantic.

    I don't know if you've been to America - but for most things in America, the prices are actually not higher than in the rest of the world, and in many areas life is cheaper.


    If so you might be guilty of harboring some fascist tendencies. At least in aesthetic domain.

     

    No I appreciate cultural differences. Countries like Italy, where people wear beautiful suits and elegant. Or in a wealthy part of Paris, where people are looking very sophisticated. And the women are very feminine and follow the latest modes.

    About Israel, I like that people are unmannerly and most people don't care how they dress, often shabby, and even businessmen are not wearing suits. And where women are often very tomboy.

    I prefer that the different cultures remain different. It's also good the Muslim world has its own traditions. My view is the opposite of fascist.

    On the issue of plastic surgery - it should be not encouraged in society, People should be natural, and look better if they keep their natural features. Women can be mentally ill about their own appearances, and plastic surgery industry exploits this, without actually delivering improvement.

    On the issue of how fashion and people caring about clothes in general, it is something charming.

    But the fact some cultures, like Italian people are dressing beautifully, - it's also a lot of hard work for them and surely many even find it stressful the cultural focus on physical appearance and to look perfect all day.

    The spending is 8.3 times less per capita.

    Why do you keep repeating this number? It is not credible.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Because it was true.

    The source for the $15 billion is from Reuters.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-plasticsurgery-idUSKBN16M3B1

    USA Today says $16 billion

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/04/12/americans-spending-more-than-ever-plastic-surgery/100365258/
  99. @Dmitry
    The spending is 8.3 times less per capita. (In my opinion a good thing)

    The prices don't seem that much different.
    E.g. To look at the only price list I found.

    The first operation on the list -
    Upper eyelid surgery -
    Israel price - between $2000-$2700

    https://medicart.co.il/%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%97%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%A4%D7%9C%D7%A1%D7%98%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D

    US price - $2,500
    https://wmhsplasticsurgery.com/how-much-eyelid-surgery-cost/


    I could run through all the different procedures in the first list if you want me to, but I think this argument has very pedantic.

    I don't know if you've been to America - but for most things in America, the prices are actually not higher than in the rest of the world, and in many areas life is cheaper.


    If so you might be guilty of harboring some fascist tendencies. At least in aesthetic domain.

     

    No I appreciate cultural differences. Countries like Italy, where people wear beautiful suits and elegant. Or in a wealthy part of Paris, where people are looking very sophisticated. And the women are very feminine and follow the latest modes.

    About Israel, I like that people are unmannerly and most people don't care how they dress, often shabby, and even businessmen are not wearing suits. And where women are often very tomboy.

    I prefer that the different cultures remain different. It's also good the Muslim world has its own traditions. My view is the opposite of fascist.

    On the issue of plastic surgery - it should be not encouraged in society, People should be natural, and look better if they keep their natural features. Women can be mentally ill about their own appearances, and plastic surgery industry exploits this, without actually delivering improvement.

    On the issue of how fashion and people caring about clothes in general, it is something charming.

    But the fact some cultures, like Italian people are dressing beautifully, - it's also a lot of hard work for them and surely many even find it stressful the cultural focus on physical appearance and to look perfect all day.

    Caring about physical appearance and presentation – beauty, dignity – is a sign of spiritual health. It is culture. Jewish slovenliness is a a sickness, and certainly standards of dress in America declined with culture and religion.

    Like everything, it can go too far and become shallow. But ugliness should not be celebrated.

    One way the Zionists sought to lift Jews up from the degradation of the diaspora Jew is a renewed concern with physical appearance, and Israel may be casual, but they are concerned with looking good. They are much better looking than American Jews, and are aware of it and proud of if.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Caring about physical appearance and presentation – beauty, dignity – is a sign of spiritual health. It is culture. Jewish slovenliness is a a sickness, and certainly standards of dress in America declined with culture and religion.

    Like everything, it can go too far and become shallow. But ugliness should not be celebrated.

    One way the Zionists sought to lift Jews up from the degradation of the diaspora Jew is a renewed concern with physical appearance, and Israel may be casual, but they are concerned with looking good. They are much better looking than American Jews, and are aware of it and proud of if.
     

    I agree that someone who does not care about their physical appearance - it can often be an indication of depression, lack of socialization, drug addiction.

    At the same time, a culture which judges people too much on physical appearance, it has negative sides. Especially if teenager girls are suffering cyber-bullying and doing plastic surgery which destroys their natural look.

    The issue of whether it is good or not- to have a culture like Italian one, where it is very commonly obsessed with clothes and fashions. From the perspective of a tourist, of course this is charming and that there exists this cultural diversity.

  100. @utu

    The spending is 8.3 times less per capita.
     
    Why do you keep repeating this number? It is not credible.
    • Replies: @utu
    But I gave you a link where it was claimed that the number was $8 billion. Is your source better than mine?

    Anyway, I found this:

    Statistics about women’s health in Israel
    http://www.wtb.org.il/english/womens-health-information-center/data/
    Israel is the number 1 country in the world in plastic surgery in young women.

    Over 30% of women in Israel, including a very high percentage of adolescents, deal with a poor body image and are not satisfied with their looks. The percentage of Israeli adolescent girls who have various eating disorders is one of the highest in the world.
     

    https://hmcisrael.com/plastic-surgery/rhinoplasty-israel
    Cosmetic surgery of the nose, or rhinoplasty, is one of the common types of cosmetic surgery in Israel.
     
    Here is a list of countries of plastic surgeries per capita. Israel is not on it which does not mean anything. Probably because it is too smal or it is closely held secret. I would disregard the non-invasive procedure s and contrite on 'face and hair' (color blue) which show that the US is not that high. France, Italy and Greece are higher as some S. American countries and Asian countries where I presume they like to fix their eye lids. Out of rich European countries UK and Germany are low. Russia, China and India are low but because they are poor.

    https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/04/daily-chart-13
     
    Here again about Iran

    Iran is the nose job capital of the world with SEVEN times more procedures than the U.S

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2287961/Iran-named-nose-job-capital-world-SEVEN-times-rhinoplasty-operations-U-S-Iranian-women-strive-western-doll-face.html#ixzz5EBvPBxer
     
    Here four countries with most rhinoplasties: Brazil, Mexico, USA, Iran (not per capita)

    https://www.robinsoncosmeticsurgery.com/news/rhinoplasty-statistics/


    Israel is most likely like the US though we do not have direct numbers:

    Cut and Paste
    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4821202

    In Sao Paulo, Brazil, with a population of 12 million, there are 1,700 plastic surgeons - one for every 7,000 residents. In the United States there are 6,000 plastic surgeons for a population of 300 million, or one surgeon for every 50,000 residents. Exactly like in Israel. Indeed this craze was "imported" here from the U.S.:
     
    I can see you have a problem of letting it go. But you have to face it that in Israel it is most likely no different than in the US. It seems that Zionism did not protect young Israeli women form corrupting Western influences. You Israeli women are not like you imagine. They are not au naturel in the state as YHWEH made them. To the contrary they are all fixed up. New noses and improved tits. Perhaps some of them due to their natural Jewish slovenliness look more natural than Italian or French women but underneath there are most likely surgical interventions. Your dream of the land where you can still meet Valentina the kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters I am afraid will be unfulfilled.
  101. @Talha
    Ah - OK - good point. I stand corrected.

    Peace.

    Although, the Kurds are primarily Sunni (there are Alevi Kurds) they are a distinctly different ethnicity than Sunni Turks despite repressive Turkish assimilationist policy i.e. Mountain Turk concept, enacted since the establishment of the Turkish Republic. The reason I point that out is that access to various forms of communication is strengthening Kurdish identity. Alevi identity formation, which is more religious than ethnic, is probably 20-30 years behind Kurdish but is also becoming more distinct.

    • Replies: @Talha
    I totally agree with you - nationalist Turks have screwed things up big time. Kurds used to be extremely loyal to the Ottoman enterprise. Either the Turks need to figure out how to make it more attractive for Kurds to join them as an important part of Turkey or this will not end well - especially since the Kurds are having kids and secular-nationalist Turks aren't.

    Peace.
  102. @Hermes
    Although, the Kurds are primarily Sunni (there are Alevi Kurds) they are a distinctly different ethnicity than Sunni Turks despite repressive Turkish assimilationist policy i.e. Mountain Turk concept, enacted since the establishment of the Turkish Republic. The reason I point that out is that access to various forms of communication is strengthening Kurdish identity. Alevi identity formation, which is more religious than ethnic, is probably 20-30 years behind Kurdish but is also becoming more distinct.

    I totally agree with you – nationalist Turks have screwed things up big time. Kurds used to be extremely loyal to the Ottoman enterprise. Either the Turks need to figure out how to make it more attractive for Kurds to join them as an important part of Turkey or this will not end well – especially since the Kurds are having kids and secular-nationalist Turks aren’t.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hermes
    Being extremely loyal to the Ottoman Empire does not necessarily mean that an ethnic group will be extremely loyal to the Turkish Republic. Firstly, not sure what extremely loyal means. Most subject peoples of the Ottoman Empire were loyal until they thought they had a chance to escape that entity. Secondly, the Turkish Republic differs greatly from the Ottoman Empire. One important respect is that the Turkish Republic was modeled (rather unsuccessfully) on a European ethnic-state which left little room for ethnicities that differed from the ethnic Turkish Sunni core. Hence, why Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians were deemed unacceptable and slaughtered in their millions. The Kurds were deemed to be somewhat acceptable but today we see that this was a miscalculation.
  103. @AaronB
    Caring about physical appearance and presentation - beauty, dignity - is a sign of spiritual health. It is culture. Jewish slovenliness is a a sickness, and certainly standards of dress in America declined with culture and religion.

    Like everything, it can go too far and become shallow. But ugliness should not be celebrated.

    One way the Zionists sought to lift Jews up from the degradation of the diaspora Jew is a renewed concern with physical appearance, and Israel may be casual, but they are concerned with looking good. They are much better looking than American Jews, and are aware of it and proud of if.

    Caring about physical appearance and presentation – beauty, dignity – is a sign of spiritual health. It is culture. Jewish slovenliness is a a sickness, and certainly standards of dress in America declined with culture and religion.

    Like everything, it can go too far and become shallow. But ugliness should not be celebrated.

    One way the Zionists sought to lift Jews up from the degradation of the diaspora Jew is a renewed concern with physical appearance, and Israel may be casual, but they are concerned with looking good. They are much better looking than American Jews, and are aware of it and proud of if.

    I agree that someone who does not care about their physical appearance – it can often be an indication of depression, lack of socialization, drug addiction.

    At the same time, a culture which judges people too much on physical appearance, it has negative sides. Especially if teenager girls are suffering cyber-bullying and doing plastic surgery which destroys their natural look.

    The issue of whether it is good or not- to have a culture like Italian one, where it is very commonly obsessed with clothes and fashions. From the perspective of a tourist, of course this is charming and that there exists this cultural diversity.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    I agree, it can go too far. But it is not just charming from the perspective of a tourist. Living in a country with regard for beauty promotes our own mental health. Beauty is a value - not fashion, which can be grotesque, bit simple, dignified beauty. All traditional cultures value beauty.

    The ugliness of Americans is surely a sign of decadence.
  104. @Dmitry
    Because it was true.

    The source for the $15 billion is from Reuters.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-plasticsurgery-idUSKBN16M3B1

    USA Today says $16 billion

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/04/12/americans-spending-more-than-ever-plastic-surgery/100365258/

    But I gave you a link where it was claimed that the number was $8 billion. Is your source better than mine?

    Anyway, I found this:

    Statistics about women’s health in Israel
    http://www.wtb.org.il/english/womens-health-information-center/data/
    Israel is the number 1 country in the world in plastic surgery in young women.

    Over 30% of women in Israel, including a very high percentage of adolescents, deal with a poor body image and are not satisfied with their looks. The percentage of Israeli adolescent girls who have various eating disorders is one of the highest in the world.

    https://hmcisrael.com/plastic-surgery/rhinoplasty-israel
    Cosmetic surgery of the nose, or rhinoplasty, is one of the common types of cosmetic surgery in Israel.

    Here is a list of countries of plastic surgeries per capita. Israel is not on it which does not mean anything. Probably because it is too smal or it is closely held secret. I would disregard the non-invasive procedure s and contrite on ‘face and hair’ (color blue) which show that the US is not that high. France, Italy and Greece are higher as some S. American countries and Asian countries where I presume they like to fix their eye lids. Out of rich European countries UK and Germany are low. Russia, China and India are low but because they are poor.

    https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/04/daily-chart-13

    Here again about Iran

    Iran is the nose job capital of the world with SEVEN times more procedures than the U.S

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2287961/Iran-named-nose-job-capital-world-SEVEN-times-rhinoplasty-operations-U-S-Iranian-women-strive-western-doll-face.html#ixzz5EBvPBxer

    Here four countries with most rhinoplasties: Brazil, Mexico, USA, Iran (not per capita)

    https://www.robinsoncosmeticsurgery.com/news/rhinoplasty-statistics/

    Israel is most likely like the US though we do not have direct numbers:

    Cut and Paste
    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4821202

    In Sao Paulo, Brazil, with a population of 12 million, there are 1,700 plastic surgeons – one for every 7,000 residents. In the United States there are 6,000 plastic surgeons for a population of 300 million, or one surgeon for every 50,000 residents. Exactly like in Israel. Indeed this craze was “imported” here from the U.S.:

    I can see you have a problem of letting it go. But you have to face it that in Israel it is most likely no different than in the US. It seems that Zionism did not protect young Israeli women form corrupting Western influences. You Israeli women are not like you imagine. They are not au naturel in the state as YHWEH made them. To the contrary they are all fixed up. New noses and improved tits. Perhaps some of them due to their natural Jewish slovenliness look more natural than Italian or French women but underneath there are most likely surgical interventions. Your dream of the land where you can still meet Valentina the kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters I am afraid will be unfulfilled.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Spending on plastic surgery per year is 8.3 times higher per person in the United States than in Israel (or greater with USA Today statistics). This is a fact using data from Reuters. (With your lower figure, it will still be 4-5 times more per capita).

    Meanwhile prices of procedures are more or less the same.

    Meanwhile in response to the fact, you have found opinion sentence from feminist, far-leftist, NGO, called "Women and Their Bodies", which is not contained on their Hebrew site.

    It is probably not well funded is probably from Soros, though - as their website is full of spelling mistakes.

    http://www.wtb.org.il/english/support-us/donation-for-wtb-activities/

    I search in Hebrew and find nothing.
  105. @Dmitry

    Caring about physical appearance and presentation – beauty, dignity – is a sign of spiritual health. It is culture. Jewish slovenliness is a a sickness, and certainly standards of dress in America declined with culture and religion.

    Like everything, it can go too far and become shallow. But ugliness should not be celebrated.

    One way the Zionists sought to lift Jews up from the degradation of the diaspora Jew is a renewed concern with physical appearance, and Israel may be casual, but they are concerned with looking good. They are much better looking than American Jews, and are aware of it and proud of if.
     

    I agree that someone who does not care about their physical appearance - it can often be an indication of depression, lack of socialization, drug addiction.

    At the same time, a culture which judges people too much on physical appearance, it has negative sides. Especially if teenager girls are suffering cyber-bullying and doing plastic surgery which destroys their natural look.

    The issue of whether it is good or not- to have a culture like Italian one, where it is very commonly obsessed with clothes and fashions. From the perspective of a tourist, of course this is charming and that there exists this cultural diversity.

    I agree, it can go too far. But it is not just charming from the perspective of a tourist. Living in a country with regard for beauty promotes our own mental health. Beauty is a value – not fashion, which can be grotesque, bit simple, dignified beauty. All traditional cultures value beauty.

    The ugliness of Americans is surely a sign of decadence.

    • Replies: @Talha

    All traditional cultures value beauty.
     
    Which is why we pay thousands of dollars to go look at what they built.

    Hell, we excavate stuff out of their trash dumps and put it on display in our museums.

    Peace.

  106. @AaronB
    I agree, it can go too far. But it is not just charming from the perspective of a tourist. Living in a country with regard for beauty promotes our own mental health. Beauty is a value - not fashion, which can be grotesque, bit simple, dignified beauty. All traditional cultures value beauty.

    The ugliness of Americans is surely a sign of decadence.

    All traditional cultures value beauty.

    Which is why we pay thousands of dollars to go look at what they built.

    Hell, we excavate stuff out of their trash dumps and put it on display in our museums.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Right, we do, don't we. The recovery of beauty will be one of the first steps back.

    I find Dmitry interesting because clearly he likes to support "downward" values whenever he can, and now he's celebrating slovenliness, and pointing out the downsides of having a concern with beauty.

    It's a very consistent world view - always be against values or anything uplifting or ennobling, on any topic. It's just funny how here it manifested itself with regard to dress.

    There really is a single thread running through all his positions.

    Beauty it seems was also a religious value, and couldn't survive the demise of religion. Which makes sense, as you can't touch beauty. It's the intangible connections between things and some unseen pattern.

    German reader wondered why I stress religion on another thread - why not limit myself to patriotism, say. He cannot understand that patriotism means believing in the intangible connections between people, each other, and a place. You can't touch patriotism.

    To believe in anything other than matter, you have to regenerate your capacity to believe in the unseen.

    It all hangs together - believe only in matter, you lose patriotism, beauty, and everything. To recover these things, you have to relearn to believe in more than matter.

    That's why religion is a necessary precondition. But they won't ever see it. It's the next generation we must wait for.
  107. @Talha

    All traditional cultures value beauty.
     
    Which is why we pay thousands of dollars to go look at what they built.

    Hell, we excavate stuff out of their trash dumps and put it on display in our museums.

    Peace.

    Right, we do, don’t we. The recovery of beauty will be one of the first steps back.

    I find Dmitry interesting because clearly he likes to support “downward” values whenever he can, and now he’s celebrating slovenliness, and pointing out the downsides of having a concern with beauty.

    It’s a very consistent world view – always be against values or anything uplifting or ennobling, on any topic. It’s just funny how here it manifested itself with regard to dress.

    There really is a single thread running through all his positions.

    Beauty it seems was also a religious value, and couldn’t survive the demise of religion. Which makes sense, as you can’t touch beauty. It’s the intangible connections between things and some unseen pattern.

    German reader wondered why I stress religion on another thread – why not limit myself to patriotism, say. He cannot understand that patriotism means believing in the intangible connections between people, each other, and a place. You can’t touch patriotism.

    To believe in anything other than matter, you have to regenerate your capacity to believe in the unseen.

    It all hangs together – believe only in matter, you lose patriotism, beauty, and everything. To recover these things, you have to relearn to believe in more than matter.

    That’s why religion is a necessary precondition. But they won’t ever see it. It’s the next generation we must wait for.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    No I have no problem with beauty.

    I even have no problem with fashion obsessed culture like in Italy.

    I see both good and bad points to it. I am happy that both different kinds of cultures exist and diversity.

    However, the case of plastic surgery, I see mainly something that makes people look worse, and exploits mental problems - but again, I said clearly above that is should not be banned and that some people will be happy with results. In fact, plastic surgery should be regulated considering the high number of deaths occurring with it.


    --

    By the way you were mentioning the concept of Atman earlier and I forgot to reply. I had to re-state this concept, there can be no change, even by events in your life, society and personal karma, It is unchanging and eternal.

    , @Talha

    You can’t touch patriotism.
     
    It's the modern religion; everything about it exudes religious precepts. Standing up for the flag, placing a hand over the heart, lowering the flag for a tragedy, not letting the flag touch the floor, the proper way to fold a flag, and on and on...

    Last three paragraphs are golden. Agree full-heartedly.

    You have outlined the cognitive dissonance apparent in modern man; he knows he can recognize beauty but if he tries to define it within the materialist paradigm it comes up severely lacking in describing the emotions he feels...
    https://cdni.rbth.com/rbthmedia/images/2017.12/article/5a2668de15e9f94a6f65c480.jpg

    Peace.
  108. @Johann Ricke
    Taylor Swift isn't bad-looking, but she's not unusually good-looking either. It's a weird paradox, but my impression is that women who are good-looking as blondes are better-looking as brunettes. Whereas women who are not good-looking as brunettes don't actually become good-looking as blondes, but do look somewhat better with blond hair.

    sorry I only meant to call you a troll once. Not sure why it happened 5 times.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
  109. @Talha
    I totally agree with you - nationalist Turks have screwed things up big time. Kurds used to be extremely loyal to the Ottoman enterprise. Either the Turks need to figure out how to make it more attractive for Kurds to join them as an important part of Turkey or this will not end well - especially since the Kurds are having kids and secular-nationalist Turks aren't.

    Peace.

    Being extremely loyal to the Ottoman Empire does not necessarily mean that an ethnic group will be extremely loyal to the Turkish Republic. Firstly, not sure what extremely loyal means. Most subject peoples of the Ottoman Empire were loyal until they thought they had a chance to escape that entity. Secondly, the Turkish Republic differs greatly from the Ottoman Empire. One important respect is that the Turkish Republic was modeled (rather unsuccessfully) on a European ethnic-state which left little room for ethnicities that differed from the ethnic Turkish Sunni core. Hence, why Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians were deemed unacceptable and slaughtered in their millions. The Kurds were deemed to be somewhat acceptable but today we see that this was a miscalculation.

    • Replies: @Talha

    does not necessarily mean that an ethnic group will be extremely loyal to the Turkish Republic
     
    Agreed - who can be loyal to a Turkish Republic other than a Turk?

    Most subject peoples of the Ottoman Empire were loyal until they thought they had a chance to escape that entity.
     
    Some, yes - some, no. Depends on who you were and your relationship with the Ottomans.

    One important respect is that the Turkish Republic was modeled (rather unsuccessfully) on a European ethnic-state which left little room for ethnicities that differed from the ethnic Turkish Sunni core. Hence, why Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians were deemed unacceptable and slaughtered in their millions.
     
    Completely agree. This is why the tension occurs to this day with the Kurds. Before that, Kurds actually had a good relationship with them:
    “Especially among the Kurds, the caliphate had been held in high esteem. When, at the outset of the First World War, the Sultan in his capacity of Caliph or supreme leader of all Orthodox Muslims proclaimed a jihad, most Kurds rallied to the call. The large sums that had been spent by Russians in an attempt to buy some Kurdish chiefs’ loyalties were of no avail, nor could emotional appeals by Kurdish nationalists complete agains the Caliph’s word…As Van Bruneissen observes, it was not until this supra-ethnic bond was severed with the elimination of the caliphate that ‘more or less nationalist-inspired revolts’ began to emerge among the Kurds.”
    Longing for the Lost Caliphate: A Transregional History (Princeton Univ. Press)

    "Confronted with the choice of being annexed at some point by Persia or formally accepting the supremacy of the Ottoman sultan in exchange for a very wide autonomy, the Kurdish leaders opted for this second solution and thus Kurdistan, or more exactly its countless fiefs and principalities entered the Ottoman bosom by the path of diplomacy. Idrissi Bidlissi's mission was facilitated by the fact that he was a well-known and respected scholar and, above all, by the immense prestige of his father, the Sheikh Hussameddin who was a very influential sufi spiritual chief...This particular status was to assure Kurdistan about three centuries of peace. The Ottomans controlled some strategic garrisons on the Kurdish territory, but the rest of the country was governed by the Kurdish lords and princes...Despite interferences from time to time from the central power, this particular status, to the satisfaction of the Kurds and the Ottomans, functioned without any major hitch until the beginning of the XIXth century. The Ottomans, protected by the powerful Kurdish barrier against Iran, were able to concentrate their forces on other fronts. As for the Kurds, they were virtually independent in the management of their affairs...For its part, the traditional wing of the Kurdish movement, which was wellestablished in Kurdish society and which was mainly dominated by religious leaders, tried to 'avoid Christian peril in the East and West' and to create 'a state of Turks and Kurds' in the muslim territories liberated from foreign occupation. The idea was generous and fraternal....The first forces of Turkey's war of independence were in fact recruited from the Kurdish provinces."
    https://www.institutkurde.org/en/institute/who_are_the_kurds.php

    Then of course, there was betrayal.

    This Turkish ethno-nationalism is also one of the reasons why the Arabs started revolting against the Turks, but that's a whole other story.

    I don't think the Turkish Republic will ever have feelings of loyalty of anyone other than Turks. Interestingly, in Pakistan (where I was born) there are about 5-6 major ethnic divisions that get along reasonably well, though there are times of tension (like separatism in Balochistan which started out as the region merely wanting a little more autonomy, but the brutality of the federal response added fuel to the fire). This is possible because the Pakistani identity is predicated on the idea of being part of an Islamic Republic (rather than, say, a Punjabi one).

    My suggestion to them; change the name to the Republic of Anatolia (which is far more inclusive of the various peoples and their ties to the region) and have a referendum on the flag.

    Peace.
  110. @utu
    But I gave you a link where it was claimed that the number was $8 billion. Is your source better than mine?

    Anyway, I found this:

    Statistics about women’s health in Israel
    http://www.wtb.org.il/english/womens-health-information-center/data/
    Israel is the number 1 country in the world in plastic surgery in young women.

    Over 30% of women in Israel, including a very high percentage of adolescents, deal with a poor body image and are not satisfied with their looks. The percentage of Israeli adolescent girls who have various eating disorders is one of the highest in the world.
     

    https://hmcisrael.com/plastic-surgery/rhinoplasty-israel
    Cosmetic surgery of the nose, or rhinoplasty, is one of the common types of cosmetic surgery in Israel.
     
    Here is a list of countries of plastic surgeries per capita. Israel is not on it which does not mean anything. Probably because it is too smal or it is closely held secret. I would disregard the non-invasive procedure s and contrite on 'face and hair' (color blue) which show that the US is not that high. France, Italy and Greece are higher as some S. American countries and Asian countries where I presume they like to fix their eye lids. Out of rich European countries UK and Germany are low. Russia, China and India are low but because they are poor.

    https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/04/daily-chart-13
     
    Here again about Iran

    Iran is the nose job capital of the world with SEVEN times more procedures than the U.S

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2287961/Iran-named-nose-job-capital-world-SEVEN-times-rhinoplasty-operations-U-S-Iranian-women-strive-western-doll-face.html#ixzz5EBvPBxer
     
    Here four countries with most rhinoplasties: Brazil, Mexico, USA, Iran (not per capita)

    https://www.robinsoncosmeticsurgery.com/news/rhinoplasty-statistics/


    Israel is most likely like the US though we do not have direct numbers:

    Cut and Paste
    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4821202

    In Sao Paulo, Brazil, with a population of 12 million, there are 1,700 plastic surgeons - one for every 7,000 residents. In the United States there are 6,000 plastic surgeons for a population of 300 million, or one surgeon for every 50,000 residents. Exactly like in Israel. Indeed this craze was "imported" here from the U.S.:
     
    I can see you have a problem of letting it go. But you have to face it that in Israel it is most likely no different than in the US. It seems that Zionism did not protect young Israeli women form corrupting Western influences. You Israeli women are not like you imagine. They are not au naturel in the state as YHWEH made them. To the contrary they are all fixed up. New noses and improved tits. Perhaps some of them due to their natural Jewish slovenliness look more natural than Italian or French women but underneath there are most likely surgical interventions. Your dream of the land where you can still meet Valentina the kolhoznitsa tractor driver form Soviet posters I am afraid will be unfulfilled.

    Spending on plastic surgery per year is 8.3 times higher per person in the United States than in Israel (or greater with USA Today statistics). This is a fact using data from Reuters. (With your lower figure, it will still be 4-5 times more per capita).

    Meanwhile prices of procedures are more or less the same.

    Meanwhile in response to the fact, you have found opinion sentence from feminist, far-leftist, NGO, called “Women and Their Bodies”, which is not contained on their Hebrew site.

    It is probably not well funded is probably from Soros, though – as their website is full of spelling mistakes.

    http://www.wtb.org.il/english/support-us/donation-for-wtb-activities/

    I search in Hebrew and find nothing.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The full page on the topic is here:

    http://www.wtb.org.il/english/body-image/

    It's feminist, amateur nonsense - although I agree with their advice.

    , @utu
    You can believe what you want. I will go with the number of certified plastic surgeons which per capita is the same in Israel and the US because I have reasons to believe that the situation is not different in both countries. Unlike you I am not tainted by sentimental idealization of Israel. You apparently seem to view Israel as a country that is untainted by the evils of modernity. But Israel is no longer a country of hicks that were made fun of by American and European Jews. They still seem to be crude, rude and uncouth but it is a modern society under similar pressures of global village like other countries. Girls aspirations are no different than those of girls in LA or NYC. Certainly they are not interested in milking cows or driving tractors as the founding fathers of Zionism envisioned.

    The bottom line is that neither you nor I can be sure of our differing positions. We would have to have access to data on numbers of different procedures performed per year. The data is available for the US but not for Israel. At least I could not find it.

    The starting point of this discussion was the issue of rhinoplasty. I am not interested in breast augmentation and so on. Only the nose jobs are important because it is more about mimicry. There are Jewish noses but there are no Jewish tits. I was interested to find out whether Jewish girls do it at the same rate in both US and Israel. Supposedly the rate in the US is dropping.

    My hypothesis was that in Israel the rate of rhinoplasty would be lower because there would be less pressure to conform to prevailing gentile beauty standards and no need for mimicry unlike in the US. But on the other hand there are more Jewish noses per capita that need fixing in Israel than in the US. I could not find data by ethnicity in the US. But I am sure that Jewish rate j is higher because of Jewish noses and money.

    Anyway, I do not know for sure. If hope that you also can distinguish between what you know and what you want to believe.

  111. @AaronB
    Right, we do, don't we. The recovery of beauty will be one of the first steps back.

    I find Dmitry interesting because clearly he likes to support "downward" values whenever he can, and now he's celebrating slovenliness, and pointing out the downsides of having a concern with beauty.

    It's a very consistent world view - always be against values or anything uplifting or ennobling, on any topic. It's just funny how here it manifested itself with regard to dress.

    There really is a single thread running through all his positions.

    Beauty it seems was also a religious value, and couldn't survive the demise of religion. Which makes sense, as you can't touch beauty. It's the intangible connections between things and some unseen pattern.

    German reader wondered why I stress religion on another thread - why not limit myself to patriotism, say. He cannot understand that patriotism means believing in the intangible connections between people, each other, and a place. You can't touch patriotism.

    To believe in anything other than matter, you have to regenerate your capacity to believe in the unseen.

    It all hangs together - believe only in matter, you lose patriotism, beauty, and everything. To recover these things, you have to relearn to believe in more than matter.

    That's why religion is a necessary precondition. But they won't ever see it. It's the next generation we must wait for.

    No I have no problem with beauty.

    I even have no problem with fashion obsessed culture like in Italy.

    I see both good and bad points to it. I am happy that both different kinds of cultures exist and diversity.

    However, the case of plastic surgery, I see mainly something that makes people look worse, and exploits mental problems – but again, I said clearly above that is should not be banned and that some people will be happy with results. In fact, plastic surgery should be regulated considering the high number of deaths occurring with it.

    By the way you were mentioning the concept of Atman earlier and I forgot to reply. I had to re-state this concept, there can be no change, even by events in your life, society and personal karma, It is unchanging and eternal.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    I'm also not a fan of plastic surgery. I don't even like too much make up.

    As for Atman, there are two levels of reality. The changes we see around us are in some sense unreal, and not to be taken seriously on an ultimate level. They are also, on a lower level, real for us as appearances.

    The hard and fast distinction between reality and unreality is a modern idea, and thus stupid, like all modern ideas.
  112. @Dmitry
    Spending on plastic surgery per year is 8.3 times higher per person in the United States than in Israel (or greater with USA Today statistics). This is a fact using data from Reuters. (With your lower figure, it will still be 4-5 times more per capita).

    Meanwhile prices of procedures are more or less the same.

    Meanwhile in response to the fact, you have found opinion sentence from feminist, far-leftist, NGO, called "Women and Their Bodies", which is not contained on their Hebrew site.

    It is probably not well funded is probably from Soros, though - as their website is full of spelling mistakes.

    http://www.wtb.org.il/english/support-us/donation-for-wtb-activities/

    I search in Hebrew and find nothing.

    The full page on the topic is here:

    http://www.wtb.org.il/english/body-image/

    It’s feminist, amateur nonsense – although I agree with their advice.

  113. @Johann Ricke
    Taylor Swift isn't bad-looking, but she's not unusually good-looking either. It's a weird paradox, but my impression is that women who are good-looking as blondes are better-looking as brunettes. Whereas women who are not good-looking as brunettes don't actually become good-looking as blondes, but do look somewhat better with blond hair.

    She is not beautiful. She is just good looking, within normal range, which means fans can see her as normal or ‘like them’.

    • Troll: Greasy William
  114. @German_reader

    It really demonstrates the gross stupidity and short-sightedness of the the German authorities who brought them into the heart of Europe
     
    German right-wingers claim this was partly due to US pressure and Cold War politics, with stabilization of NATO ally Turkey being an important goal of allowing Turkish "guest workers" (lol) to come. I know it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory and I haven't looked into the matter myself, but it doesn't seem completely implausible to me.
    Don't have much to say about the current Armenian issue (AK doesn't seem to care much either)...bit frustrating we don't get to see how the possibly cute girl in the picture above looks from the front :-(

    Perhaps the grossest stupidity and shortsightedness of German authorities was when they allied themselves with the Turks in WW1 against Russia. Bismarck, who was a realist, was not opposed to the “Russians coming to Constantinople” and was convinced that the Turks ‘had no business in Europe’. It was the dream of a German Empire in the East, eying the oil of Iran and Irak and Caspian that brought together Russia and Britain who put to rest their ‘Great Game’ (at least for a while) and led to WW1.

  115. utu says:
    @Dmitry
    Spending on plastic surgery per year is 8.3 times higher per person in the United States than in Israel (or greater with USA Today statistics). This is a fact using data from Reuters. (With your lower figure, it will still be 4-5 times more per capita).

    Meanwhile prices of procedures are more or less the same.

    Meanwhile in response to the fact, you have found opinion sentence from feminist, far-leftist, NGO, called "Women and Their Bodies", which is not contained on their Hebrew site.

    It is probably not well funded is probably from Soros, though - as their website is full of spelling mistakes.

    http://www.wtb.org.il/english/support-us/donation-for-wtb-activities/

    I search in Hebrew and find nothing.

    You can believe what you want. I will go with the number of certified plastic surgeons which per capita is the same in Israel and the US because I have reasons to believe that the situation is not different in both countries. Unlike you I am not tainted by sentimental idealization of Israel. You apparently seem to view Israel as a country that is untainted by the evils of modernity. But Israel is no longer a country of hicks that were made fun of by American and European Jews. They still seem to be crude, rude and uncouth but it is a modern society under similar pressures of global village like other countries. Girls aspirations are no different than those of girls in LA or NYC. Certainly they are not interested in milking cows or driving tractors as the founding fathers of Zionism envisioned.

    The bottom line is that neither you nor I can be sure of our differing positions. We would have to have access to data on numbers of different procedures performed per year. The data is available for the US but not for Israel. At least I could not find it.

    The starting point of this discussion was the issue of rhinoplasty. I am not interested in breast augmentation and so on. Only the nose jobs are important because it is more about mimicry. There are Jewish noses but there are no Jewish tits. I was interested to find out whether Jewish girls do it at the same rate in both US and Israel. Supposedly the rate in the US is dropping.

    My hypothesis was that in Israel the rate of rhinoplasty would be lower because there would be less pressure to conform to prevailing gentile beauty standards and no need for mimicry unlike in the US. But on the other hand there are more Jewish noses per capita that need fixing in Israel than in the US. I could not find data by ethnicity in the US. But I am sure that Jewish rate j is higher because of Jewish noses and money.

    Anyway, I do not know for sure. If hope that you also can distinguish between what you know and what you want to believe.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    We have revenue for the plastic surgery industries in the countries (America and Israel). Divide it by population, and you get the per capita rates in terms of revenue expenditure, where it is vastly more in America (whichever statistic used).


    -


    We know how many operations are per year - but only with older data.

    10,000 procedures per year in Israel in 2005-2006.

    https://www.themarker.com/advertising/1.444209


    Whereas in America,

    15.9 million in 2015 (including minimally invasive)

    https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/new-statistics-reflect-the-changing-face-of-plastic-surgery

    The years are 10 years separate - but in 2015, Americans is around 40 times more procedures per capita, than Israel did in 2005-2006.

    -

    It's not that difficult to see the American rate much high than other countries in the world, including Russia. The higher rate of Americans is supported by anecdotal evidence even here forum from (I guess they are American?) some American users here who know people who did the operation, and also seem to be propagandized by industry to believe it is effective. (In reality, breasts are the worst operation, but nose operation also looks bad.)

    Looking at Russia now - We can see also far lower statistics compared to America in per capita terms (Russia rates in 2015 are slightly less than in Israel in 2005).

    (Russia also has around 40 times less than America).

    https://vademec.ru/article/ploshchad_okruglosti_/
  116. @Dmitry
    No I have no problem with beauty.

    I even have no problem with fashion obsessed culture like in Italy.

    I see both good and bad points to it. I am happy that both different kinds of cultures exist and diversity.

    However, the case of plastic surgery, I see mainly something that makes people look worse, and exploits mental problems - but again, I said clearly above that is should not be banned and that some people will be happy with results. In fact, plastic surgery should be regulated considering the high number of deaths occurring with it.


    --

    By the way you were mentioning the concept of Atman earlier and I forgot to reply. I had to re-state this concept, there can be no change, even by events in your life, society and personal karma, It is unchanging and eternal.

    I’m also not a fan of plastic surgery. I don’t even like too much make up.

    As for Atman, there are two levels of reality. The changes we see around us are in some sense unreal, and not to be taken seriously on an ultimate level. They are also, on a lower level, real for us as appearances.

    The hard and fast distinction between reality and unreality is a modern idea, and thus stupid, like all modern ideas.

  117. utu says:

    I’m also not a fan of plastic surgery. I don’t even like too much make up.

    Makeups you can see so you can be a fan of it or not. But plastic surgery you can’t see, you can’t tell in most cases. So you not being fan of it is just conceptual. It is just an idea in your mind not an experience unless you have seen cases of old women overdoing or botched up surgeries. When you go to your synagogue take a look at all young and youngish women you like and you will be safe to assume most of them had some job done on their faces. All of them will deny if you ask.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Yes, it's just an idea, but I've been with women who told me they had plastic surgery and I've lost interest. Its a visceral reaction, not under my control. Unless she regrets it and is amazing in every other way, it's a deal breaker for me.

    I'm a bit of a naturalist, broadly understood. And while I believe beauty is important, plastic surgery suggests excessive vanity. Balance in all things.
  118. @utu

    I’m also not a fan of plastic surgery. I don’t even like too much make up.
     
    Makeups you can see so you can be a fan of it or not. But plastic surgery you can't see, you can't tell in most cases. So you not being fan of it is just conceptual. It is just an idea in your mind not an experience unless you have seen cases of old women overdoing or botched up surgeries. When you go to your synagogue take a look at all young and youngish women you like and you will be safe to assume most of them had some job done on their faces. All of them will deny if you ask.

    Yes, it’s just an idea, but I’ve been with women who told me they had plastic surgery and I’ve lost interest. Its a visceral reaction, not under my control. Unless she regrets it and is amazing in every other way, it’s a deal breaker for me.

    I’m a bit of a naturalist, broadly understood. And while I believe beauty is important, plastic surgery suggests excessive vanity. Balance in all things.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The breast surgery, make women look worse (when clothes are off), although it makes them more attractive when clothes are on (but this is a trick and one which fails for romantic partners).

    The facial surgery generally also makes people look worse, although it is heavily promoted by plastic surgery industry, who generate large incomes from women believing it will improve them.

    Women's attractiveness is mainly determined genetics, health and youth, but with multiple factors which indicate health, youth and attractiveness, that are not improved (but can be made worse) by altering shape of nose, jaw, cheeks , and changing one does not improve how they fit together. Nature is not
    so easily fooled in this area.

    As for make-up. Some things actually works (particularly eyeliner) a lot more and often trick you of course to think girls are better looking than they are, and particularly in the evening. The same pretty women without eyeliner, often seem more average.
    , @utu

    I’ve been with women who told me they had plastic surgery and I’ve lost interest.
     
    That was my point. You did not know until you have been told. You lost interest because of your presumption what this meant in terms of character of women (vanity) and so on. So when earlier you said

    I’m also not a fan of plastic surgery. I don’t even like too much make up.
     
    you were somewhat misleading as to the origin where you being a fan or not was coming from. It was not visual but it was your prejudice, it was ideological, religious. Probably the same as with Dimitry who seem to be obsessing about it. I suspect that Dimitry is neophyte orthodox Jew from Russia and for him Israel's shit still does not stink. You also hail form orthodox Jews, right?

    So we are having three Jews: AaronB, Dimitry, Greasy though Dimitry has not directly admitted to his Jewishness if I remember. Anyway it is overrepresentation and clearly points to excessive activism. I am not saying that you three work as a group on all issues but when push come to shove you unite.
  119. @utu
    You can believe what you want. I will go with the number of certified plastic surgeons which per capita is the same in Israel and the US because I have reasons to believe that the situation is not different in both countries. Unlike you I am not tainted by sentimental idealization of Israel. You apparently seem to view Israel as a country that is untainted by the evils of modernity. But Israel is no longer a country of hicks that were made fun of by American and European Jews. They still seem to be crude, rude and uncouth but it is a modern society under similar pressures of global village like other countries. Girls aspirations are no different than those of girls in LA or NYC. Certainly they are not interested in milking cows or driving tractors as the founding fathers of Zionism envisioned.

    The bottom line is that neither you nor I can be sure of our differing positions. We would have to have access to data on numbers of different procedures performed per year. The data is available for the US but not for Israel. At least I could not find it.

    The starting point of this discussion was the issue of rhinoplasty. I am not interested in breast augmentation and so on. Only the nose jobs are important because it is more about mimicry. There are Jewish noses but there are no Jewish tits. I was interested to find out whether Jewish girls do it at the same rate in both US and Israel. Supposedly the rate in the US is dropping.

    My hypothesis was that in Israel the rate of rhinoplasty would be lower because there would be less pressure to conform to prevailing gentile beauty standards and no need for mimicry unlike in the US. But on the other hand there are more Jewish noses per capita that need fixing in Israel than in the US. I could not find data by ethnicity in the US. But I am sure that Jewish rate j is higher because of Jewish noses and money.

    Anyway, I do not know for sure. If hope that you also can distinguish between what you know and what you want to believe.

    We have revenue for the plastic surgery industries in the countries (America and Israel). Divide it by population, and you get the per capita rates in terms of revenue expenditure, where it is vastly more in America (whichever statistic used).

    We know how many operations are per year – but only with older data.

    10,000 procedures per year in Israel in 2005-2006.

    https://www.themarker.com/advertising/1.444209

    Whereas in America,

    15.9 million in 2015 (including minimally invasive)

    https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/new-statistics-reflect-the-changing-face-of-plastic-surgery

    The years are 10 years separate – but in 2015, Americans is around 40 times more procedures per capita, than Israel did in 2005-2006.

    It’s not that difficult to see the American rate much high than other countries in the world, including Russia. The higher rate of Americans is supported by anecdotal evidence even here forum from (I guess they are American?) some American users here who know people who did the operation, and also seem to be propagandized by industry to believe it is effective. (In reality, breasts are the worst operation, but nose operation also looks bad.)

    Looking at Russia now – We can see also far lower statistics compared to America in per capita terms (Russia rates in 2015 are slightly less than in Israel in 2005).

    (Russia also has around 40 times less than America).

    https://vademec.ru/article/ploshchad_okruglosti_/

    • Replies: @utu

    We have revenue for the plastic surgery industries in the countries (America and Israel). Divide it by population, and you get the per capita rates in terms of revenue expenditure, where it is vastly more in America (whichever statistic used).
     
    This what in principle one would do. But there are many problems with this approach in this case because we do not know whether the revenue numbers we have we can't. The numbers could have been calculated differently. We have two numbers for the US $15b and $8b with 100% discrepancy. For Israel the number could have been pulled out of some bureaucrat's ass and it may not reflect dark economy which is greta din Israel l than US that is not captured by the revenue service. In one country the number could include liposuction or not. The numbers reflect different things. Then prices of procedures are different. For this reason what you stubbornly insist on doing just because it it goes in direction of confirmation bias is less accurate in my opinion than going with the numbers of certified surgeons. That's why I go with the surgeon approach:

    Surgeons| USA 6000/Israel 130 =46
    Population| USA 325/Israel 8.8 =36
    --------------------------------------------
    Surgeries rate| USA/Israel=46/36=1.28

    IMO this is the best estimate that we have with data we have. USA and Israel have similar rates (to within 25%) of plastic surgeries. We do not know which surgeries are most common in Israel. So the question whether nose jobs among Jewish girls in Israel are as popular as nose jobs among Jewish girls in the US is not answered.

    Your estimates using revenues that lead to 4-8 times lower rates in Israel are clearly WRONG. Reason you like it because it is your CONFIRMATION BIAS talking.

    Anyway, you should rejoice and alleluia. Israeli girls are no hicks anymore! They are just like Jewish girls in NYC, LI and LA. They shave their legs and more, they have plastic surgeries, they probably even bath frequently not like once a month as it used to be in old times.
  120. @AaronB
    Yes, it's just an idea, but I've been with women who told me they had plastic surgery and I've lost interest. Its a visceral reaction, not under my control. Unless she regrets it and is amazing in every other way, it's a deal breaker for me.

    I'm a bit of a naturalist, broadly understood. And while I believe beauty is important, plastic surgery suggests excessive vanity. Balance in all things.

    The breast surgery, make women look worse (when clothes are off), although it makes them more attractive when clothes are on (but this is a trick and one which fails for romantic partners).

    The facial surgery generally also makes people look worse, although it is heavily promoted by plastic surgery industry, who generate large incomes from women believing it will improve them.

    Women’s attractiveness is mainly determined genetics, health and youth, but with multiple factors which indicate health, youth and attractiveness, that are not improved (but can be made worse) by altering shape of nose, jaw, cheeks , and changing one does not improve how they fit together. Nature is not
    so easily fooled in this area.

    As for make-up. Some things actually works (particularly eyeliner) a lot more and often trick you of course to think girls are better looking than they are, and particularly in the evening. The same pretty women without eyeliner, often seem more average.

  121. Talha says:
    @AaronB
    Right, we do, don't we. The recovery of beauty will be one of the first steps back.

    I find Dmitry interesting because clearly he likes to support "downward" values whenever he can, and now he's celebrating slovenliness, and pointing out the downsides of having a concern with beauty.

    It's a very consistent world view - always be against values or anything uplifting or ennobling, on any topic. It's just funny how here it manifested itself with regard to dress.

    There really is a single thread running through all his positions.

    Beauty it seems was also a religious value, and couldn't survive the demise of religion. Which makes sense, as you can't touch beauty. It's the intangible connections between things and some unseen pattern.

    German reader wondered why I stress religion on another thread - why not limit myself to patriotism, say. He cannot understand that patriotism means believing in the intangible connections between people, each other, and a place. You can't touch patriotism.

    To believe in anything other than matter, you have to regenerate your capacity to believe in the unseen.

    It all hangs together - believe only in matter, you lose patriotism, beauty, and everything. To recover these things, you have to relearn to believe in more than matter.

    That's why religion is a necessary precondition. But they won't ever see it. It's the next generation we must wait for.

    You can’t touch patriotism.

    It’s the modern religion; everything about it exudes religious precepts. Standing up for the flag, placing a hand over the heart, lowering the flag for a tragedy, not letting the flag touch the floor, the proper way to fold a flag, and on and on…

    Last three paragraphs are golden. Agree full-heartedly.

    You have outlined the cognitive dissonance apparent in modern man; he knows he can recognize beauty but if he tries to define it within the materialist paradigm it comes up severely lacking in describing the emotions he feels…

    Peace.

  122. Talha says:
    @Hermes
    Being extremely loyal to the Ottoman Empire does not necessarily mean that an ethnic group will be extremely loyal to the Turkish Republic. Firstly, not sure what extremely loyal means. Most subject peoples of the Ottoman Empire were loyal until they thought they had a chance to escape that entity. Secondly, the Turkish Republic differs greatly from the Ottoman Empire. One important respect is that the Turkish Republic was modeled (rather unsuccessfully) on a European ethnic-state which left little room for ethnicities that differed from the ethnic Turkish Sunni core. Hence, why Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians were deemed unacceptable and slaughtered in their millions. The Kurds were deemed to be somewhat acceptable but today we see that this was a miscalculation.

    does not necessarily mean that an ethnic group will be extremely loyal to the Turkish Republic

    Agreed – who can be loyal to a Turkish Republic other than a Turk?

    Most subject peoples of the Ottoman Empire were loyal until they thought they had a chance to escape that entity.

    Some, yes – some, no. Depends on who you were and your relationship with the Ottomans.

    One important respect is that the Turkish Republic was modeled (rather unsuccessfully) on a European ethnic-state which left little room for ethnicities that differed from the ethnic Turkish Sunni core. Hence, why Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians were deemed unacceptable and slaughtered in their millions.

    Completely agree. This is why the tension occurs to this day with the Kurds. Before that, Kurds actually had a good relationship with them:
    “Especially among the Kurds, the caliphate had been held in high esteem. When, at the outset of the First World War, the Sultan in his capacity of Caliph or supreme leader of all Orthodox Muslims proclaimed a jihad, most Kurds rallied to the call. The large sums that had been spent by Russians in an attempt to buy some Kurdish chiefs’ loyalties were of no avail, nor could emotional appeals by Kurdish nationalists complete agains the Caliph’s word…As Van Bruneissen observes, it was not until this supra-ethnic bond was severed with the elimination of the caliphate that ‘more or less nationalist-inspired revolts’ began to emerge among the Kurds.”
    Longing for the Lost Caliphate: A Transregional History (Princeton Univ. Press)

    “Confronted with the choice of being annexed at some point by Persia or formally accepting the supremacy of the Ottoman sultan in exchange for a very wide autonomy, the Kurdish leaders opted for this second solution and thus Kurdistan, or more exactly its countless fiefs and principalities entered the Ottoman bosom by the path of diplomacy. Idrissi Bidlissi’s mission was facilitated by the fact that he was a well-known and respected scholar and, above all, by the immense prestige of his father, the Sheikh Hussameddin who was a very influential sufi spiritual chief…This particular status was to assure Kurdistan about three centuries of peace. The Ottomans controlled some strategic garrisons on the Kurdish territory, but the rest of the country was governed by the Kurdish lords and princes…Despite interferences from time to time from the central power, this particular status, to the satisfaction of the Kurds and the Ottomans, functioned without any major hitch until the beginning of the XIXth century. The Ottomans, protected by the powerful Kurdish barrier against Iran, were able to concentrate their forces on other fronts. As for the Kurds, they were virtually independent in the management of their affairs…For its part, the traditional wing of the Kurdish movement, which was wellestablished in Kurdish society and which was mainly dominated by religious leaders, tried to ‘avoid Christian peril in the East and West’ and to create ‘a state of Turks and Kurds’ in the muslim territories liberated from foreign occupation. The idea was generous and fraternal….The first forces of Turkey’s war of independence were in fact recruited from the Kurdish provinces.”
    https://www.institutkurde.org/en/institute/who_are_the_kurds.php

    Then of course, there was betrayal.

    This Turkish ethno-nationalism is also one of the reasons why the Arabs started revolting against the Turks, but that’s a whole other story.

    I don’t think the Turkish Republic will ever have feelings of loyalty of anyone other than Turks. Interestingly, in Pakistan (where I was born) there are about 5-6 major ethnic divisions that get along reasonably well, though there are times of tension (like separatism in Balochistan which started out as the region merely wanting a little more autonomy, but the brutality of the federal response added fuel to the fire). This is possible because the Pakistani identity is predicated on the idea of being part of an Islamic Republic (rather than, say, a Punjabi one).

    My suggestion to them; change the name to the Republic of Anatolia (which is far more inclusive of the various peoples and their ties to the region) and have a referendum on the flag.

    Peace.

  123. utu says:
    @Dmitry
    We have revenue for the plastic surgery industries in the countries (America and Israel). Divide it by population, and you get the per capita rates in terms of revenue expenditure, where it is vastly more in America (whichever statistic used).


    -


    We know how many operations are per year - but only with older data.

    10,000 procedures per year in Israel in 2005-2006.

    https://www.themarker.com/advertising/1.444209


    Whereas in America,

    15.9 million in 2015 (including minimally invasive)

    https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/new-statistics-reflect-the-changing-face-of-plastic-surgery

    The years are 10 years separate - but in 2015, Americans is around 40 times more procedures per capita, than Israel did in 2005-2006.

    -

    It's not that difficult to see the American rate much high than other countries in the world, including Russia. The higher rate of Americans is supported by anecdotal evidence even here forum from (I guess they are American?) some American users here who know people who did the operation, and also seem to be propagandized by industry to believe it is effective. (In reality, breasts are the worst operation, but nose operation also looks bad.)

    Looking at Russia now - We can see also far lower statistics compared to America in per capita terms (Russia rates in 2015 are slightly less than in Israel in 2005).

    (Russia also has around 40 times less than America).

    https://vademec.ru/article/ploshchad_okruglosti_/

    We have revenue for the plastic surgery industries in the countries (America and Israel). Divide it by population, and you get the per capita rates in terms of revenue expenditure, where it is vastly more in America (whichever statistic used).

    This what in principle one would do. But there are many problems with this approach in this case because we do not know whether the revenue numbers we have we can’t. The numbers could have been calculated differently. We have two numbers for the US $15b and $8b with 100% discrepancy. For Israel the number could have been pulled out of some bureaucrat’s ass and it may not reflect dark economy which is greta din Israel l than US that is not captured by the revenue service. In one country the number could include liposuction or not. The numbers reflect different things. Then prices of procedures are different. For this reason what you stubbornly insist on doing just because it it goes in direction of confirmation bias is less accurate in my opinion than going with the numbers of certified surgeons. That’s why I go with the surgeon approach:

    Surgeons| USA 6000/Israel 130 =46
    Population| USA 325/Israel 8.8 =36
    ——————————————–
    Surgeries rate| USA/Israel=46/36=1.28

    IMO this is the best estimate that we have with data we have. USA and Israel have similar rates (to within 25%) of plastic surgeries. We do not know which surgeries are most common in Israel. So the question whether nose jobs among Jewish girls in Israel are as popular as nose jobs among Jewish girls in the US is not answered.

    Your estimates using revenues that lead to 4-8 times lower rates in Israel are clearly WRONG. Reason you like it because it is your CONFIRMATION BIAS talking.

    Anyway, you should rejoice and alleluia. Israeli girls are no hicks anymore! They are just like Jewish girls in NYC, LI and LA. They shave their legs and more, they have plastic surgeries, they probably even bath frequently not like once a month as it used to be in old times.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The only confirmation bias was from your denial of the data we have.

    Per capita, 8.3 times less expenditure on this vanity surgery per year in 2016 than in America.


    --


    10,000 procedures per year in Israel in 2005-2006.

    https://www.themarker.com/advertising/1.444209

    In America in 2015, 15.9 million procedures:
    https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/new-statistics-reflect-the-changing-face-of-plastic-surgery

    And in Russia, a similar differential from the Americans.

  124. utu says:
    @AaronB
    Yes, it's just an idea, but I've been with women who told me they had plastic surgery and I've lost interest. Its a visceral reaction, not under my control. Unless she regrets it and is amazing in every other way, it's a deal breaker for me.

    I'm a bit of a naturalist, broadly understood. And while I believe beauty is important, plastic surgery suggests excessive vanity. Balance in all things.

    I’ve been with women who told me they had plastic surgery and I’ve lost interest.

    That was my point. You did not know until you have been told. You lost interest because of your presumption what this meant in terms of character of women (vanity) and so on. So when earlier you said

    I’m also not a fan of plastic surgery. I don’t even like too much make up.

    you were somewhat misleading as to the origin where you being a fan or not was coming from. It was not visual but it was your prejudice, it was ideological, religious. Probably the same as with Dimitry who seem to be obsessing about it. I suspect that Dimitry is neophyte orthodox Jew from Russia and for him Israel’s shit still does not stink. You also hail form orthodox Jews, right?

    So we are having three Jews: AaronB, Dimitry, Greasy though Dimitry has not directly admitted to his Jewishness if I remember. Anyway it is overrepresentation and clearly points to excessive activism. I am not saying that you three work as a group on all issues but when push come to shove you unite.

    • Replies: @AaronB

    It was not visual but it was your prejudice, it was ideological, religious.
     
    Correct, it's not necessarily visual. It's ideological.

    You also hail form orthodox Jews, right?
     
    On one parents side, yes, and I grew up in the community. I am no longer part of it.

    I am not saying that you three work as a group on all issues but when push come to shove you unite.
     
    lol. I don't think so.

    I'd unite with you, utu, when push comes to shove, but you constantly reject my halting attempts to establish a united front with you :)

    Maybe I should unite with the white commenters here. We can all discuss WW2 minutuate endlessly and ignore larger issues, because that's what's important.

    The fact is, Jews rightfully rule your generation. I now see that. Your generation of whites are natural slaves.
  125. @utu

    I’ve been with women who told me they had plastic surgery and I’ve lost interest.
     
    That was my point. You did not know until you have been told. You lost interest because of your presumption what this meant in terms of character of women (vanity) and so on. So when earlier you said

    I’m also not a fan of plastic surgery. I don’t even like too much make up.
     
    you were somewhat misleading as to the origin where you being a fan or not was coming from. It was not visual but it was your prejudice, it was ideological, religious. Probably the same as with Dimitry who seem to be obsessing about it. I suspect that Dimitry is neophyte orthodox Jew from Russia and for him Israel's shit still does not stink. You also hail form orthodox Jews, right?

    So we are having three Jews: AaronB, Dimitry, Greasy though Dimitry has not directly admitted to his Jewishness if I remember. Anyway it is overrepresentation and clearly points to excessive activism. I am not saying that you three work as a group on all issues but when push come to shove you unite.

    It was not visual but it was your prejudice, it was ideological, religious.

    Correct, it’s not necessarily visual. It’s ideological.

    You also hail form orthodox Jews, right?

    On one parents side, yes, and I grew up in the community. I am no longer part of it.

    I am not saying that you three work as a group on all issues but when push come to shove you unite.

    lol. I don’t think so.

    I’d unite with you, utu, when push comes to shove, but you constantly reject my halting attempts to establish a united front with you 🙂

    Maybe I should unite with the white commenters here. We can all discuss WW2 minutuate endlessly and ignore larger issues, because that’s what’s important.

    The fact is, Jews rightfully rule your generation. I now see that. Your generation of whites are natural slaves.

  126. utu says:

    but you constantly reject my halting attempts

    I am sorry you get this impression. But it is possible that I try to maintain a buffer zone. I am on my own here. In real life it is different but being on your own is a luxury/curse internet can offer.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    I hear you, no worries. I think all of us have to be more of less on our own in this internet space, and form temporary alliances at best. At least on unz.
  127. @utu

    but you constantly reject my halting attempts
     
    I am sorry you get this impression. But it is possible that I try to maintain a buffer zone. I am on my own here. In real life it is different but being on your own is a luxury/curse internet can offer.

    I hear you, no worries. I think all of us have to be more of less on our own in this internet space, and form temporary alliances at best. At least on unz.

    • Replies: @Talha
    By the way - brilliant comment on the Sailer thread. Me and another brother are laughing at the position he has to take since it's basically begging Jewish elite to cease and desist.

    Problem with the deal is that it's not worthy for consideration since they already have what's on offer. He might want to throw in the guarantee of defending Israel in perpetuity...oh...wait...

    Remember to always listen to pro-Zionist political elites since "I guarantee you it will have enormous positive reverberations..."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHmhf_wrcrM

    Peace.
  128. @utu

    We have revenue for the plastic surgery industries in the countries (America and Israel). Divide it by population, and you get the per capita rates in terms of revenue expenditure, where it is vastly more in America (whichever statistic used).
     
    This what in principle one would do. But there are many problems with this approach in this case because we do not know whether the revenue numbers we have we can't. The numbers could have been calculated differently. We have two numbers for the US $15b and $8b with 100% discrepancy. For Israel the number could have been pulled out of some bureaucrat's ass and it may not reflect dark economy which is greta din Israel l than US that is not captured by the revenue service. In one country the number could include liposuction or not. The numbers reflect different things. Then prices of procedures are different. For this reason what you stubbornly insist on doing just because it it goes in direction of confirmation bias is less accurate in my opinion than going with the numbers of certified surgeons. That's why I go with the surgeon approach:

    Surgeons| USA 6000/Israel 130 =46
    Population| USA 325/Israel 8.8 =36
    --------------------------------------------
    Surgeries rate| USA/Israel=46/36=1.28

    IMO this is the best estimate that we have with data we have. USA and Israel have similar rates (to within 25%) of plastic surgeries. We do not know which surgeries are most common in Israel. So the question whether nose jobs among Jewish girls in Israel are as popular as nose jobs among Jewish girls in the US is not answered.

    Your estimates using revenues that lead to 4-8 times lower rates in Israel are clearly WRONG. Reason you like it because it is your CONFIRMATION BIAS talking.

    Anyway, you should rejoice and alleluia. Israeli girls are no hicks anymore! They are just like Jewish girls in NYC, LI and LA. They shave their legs and more, they have plastic surgeries, they probably even bath frequently not like once a month as it used to be in old times.

    The only confirmation bias was from your denial of the data we have.

    Per capita, 8.3 times less expenditure on this vanity surgery per year in 2016 than in America.

    10,000 procedures per year in Israel in 2005-2006.

    https://www.themarker.com/advertising/1.444209

    In America in 2015, 15.9 million procedures:
    https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/new-statistics-reflect-the-changing-face-of-plastic-surgery

    And in Russia, a similar differential from the Americans.

    • Replies: @utu
    Don't you understand that you can't compare the two statistics? Apples and organges problem. The article in Hebrew you linked clearly states that statistics in Israel are not gathered and not kept. The 10,000 number is an estimate and probably of only truly hard core surgical procedures which require certified surgeons (there are 130 of them in Israel) while the number of 15.9 million of procedure in the US includes all possible non invasive procedures that are performed by medical assistants and "technicians" in shopping malls. There are 6000 certified plastic surgeons in the US. Are you going to tell me that each of them performs 9 procedures a day? While in Israel surgeons perform one procedure every four days? (I assumed they work 300 days/year). Don't be ridiculous, Dimitry. You can't use the numbers you came up with to estimate how the plastic surgeries rates differ in the US and Israel.

    If we look at 6000 American surgeon and assume they perform one procedure per day 300 days per year we get 1,8 million of procedures. I mean serious procedures like rhinoplasty, breast augmentation, eyelids lift and so on. In 2017 there were 300,000 breast augmentations, 200,000 eyelid surgeries, 218,000 rhinoplasties. These numbers you can be found here

    https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2017/plastic-surgery-statistics-report-2017.pdf
     
    and they are congruent with the 1,8 million of procedures I just roughly estimated. Actually, the total number of cosmetic surgical procedures, not some BS ingrown hair removal, in 2017 was 1,790,832 which is damn close to what I got from assuming one procedure per day per surgeon 300 days a year.

    I was attributing your obstinacy to your great attachment to the idealized image of Israel which in your mind must be pure where girls remain virgins who do shave, do not wash and never think of sex and certainly under no circumstance would consider having a nose job done. But now I will have to consider a possibility that you are also not too smart. You do not need to die in Masada. This is not Masada issue. Snap out of it.

    At the point where we are. i.e, because we lack Israeli statistics while we have excellent data form the US, the only way to estimate the difference of rates between the US and Israel is by going with the numbers of certified surgeons as I did here:

    Surgeons| USA 6000/Israel 130 =46
    Population| USA 325/Israel 8.8 =36
    ——————————————–
    Surgeries rate| USA/Israel=46/36=1.28

    This is what Haaretz did and what the article in Hebrew you linked also stated that: thet number of per capita surgeons are similar because that's what matters.

    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4821202

    In Sao Paulo, Brazil, with a population of 12 million, there are 1,700 plastic surgeons – one for every 7,000 residents. In the United States there are 6,000 plastic surgeons for a population of 300 million, or one surgeon for every 50,000 residents. Exactly like in Israel. Indeed this craze was “imported” here from the U.S.
     
  129. https://armenianweekly.com/2018/05/01/na-fails-to-elect-pashinyan/

    tl;dr, Saakashvilian lost the vote in the National Assembly by 45 to 55, and will not become Prime Minister.

    At least not legally – he is now calling for a general strike.

  130. utu says:
    @Dmitry
    The only confirmation bias was from your denial of the data we have.

    Per capita, 8.3 times less expenditure on this vanity surgery per year in 2016 than in America.


    --


    10,000 procedures per year in Israel in 2005-2006.

    https://www.themarker.com/advertising/1.444209

    In America in 2015, 15.9 million procedures:
    https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/new-statistics-reflect-the-changing-face-of-plastic-surgery

    And in Russia, a similar differential from the Americans.

    Don’t you understand that you can’t compare the two statistics? Apples and organges problem. The article in Hebrew you linked clearly states that statistics in Israel are not gathered and not kept. The 10,000 number is an estimate and probably of only truly hard core surgical procedures which require certified surgeons (there are 130 of them in Israel) while the number of 15.9 million of procedure in the US includes all possible non invasive procedures that are performed by medical assistants and “technicians” in shopping malls. There are 6000 certified plastic surgeons in the US. Are you going to tell me that each of them performs 9 procedures a day? While in Israel surgeons perform one procedure every four days? (I assumed they work 300 days/year). Don’t be ridiculous, Dimitry. You can’t use the numbers you came up with to estimate how the plastic surgeries rates differ in the US and Israel.

    If we look at 6000 American surgeon and assume they perform one procedure per day 300 days per year we get 1,8 million of procedures. I mean serious procedures like rhinoplasty, breast augmentation, eyelids lift and so on. In 2017 there were 300,000 breast augmentations, 200,000 eyelid surgeries, 218,000 rhinoplasties. These numbers you can be found here

    https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2017/plastic-surgery-statistics-report-2017.pdf

    and they are congruent with the 1,8 million of procedures I just roughly estimated. Actually, the total number of cosmetic surgical procedures, not some BS ingrown hair removal, in 2017 was 1,790,832 which is damn close to what I got from assuming one procedure per day per surgeon 300 days a year.

    I was attributing your obstinacy to your great attachment to the idealized image of Israel which in your mind must be pure where girls remain virgins who do shave, do not wash and never think of sex and certainly under no circumstance would consider having a nose job done. But now I will have to consider a possibility that you are also not too smart. You do not need to die in Masada. This is not Masada issue. Snap out of it.

    At the point where we are. i.e, because we lack Israeli statistics while we have excellent data form the US, the only way to estimate the difference of rates between the US and Israel is by going with the numbers of certified surgeons as I did here:

    Surgeons| USA 6000/Israel 130 =46
    Population| USA 325/Israel 8.8 =36
    ——————————————–
    Surgeries rate| USA/Israel=46/36=1.28

    This is what Haaretz did and what the article in Hebrew you linked also stated that: thet number of per capita surgeons are similar because that’s what matters.

    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4821202

    In Sao Paulo, Brazil, with a population of 12 million, there are 1,700 plastic surgeons – one for every 7,000 residents. In the United States there are 6,000 plastic surgeons for a population of 300 million, or one surgeon for every 50,000 residents. Exactly like in Israel. Indeed this craze was “imported” here from the U.S.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It's amusing to see how you can keep being disproved by data.

    We already know in cold data, that Americans spend 8.3 times more per capita on plastic surgery.

    In response, you wrote some stuff about secret hidden numbers and quote random sentence from some feminist blog with spelling mistakes each paragraph.

    Now we know already that 10,000 plastic surgeries were performed in 2006.

    In 2007 - there were 11,600 procedures.

    In 2008 - there were 12,500 procedures

    Indeed you are right to make the distinction between invasive and non-invasive:
    https://www.mako.co.il/women-magazine/diva/Article-574313b4e0aff11004.htm


    Between 2009-2015, expenditure in the industry has flat every year around $55 million per year (around NIS 200 million), and finance articles say the industry has been static, although the types of procedures have changed (with increase in fashions like botox).

    In America, 15.9 million procedures per year in 2015. But this data includes non-invasive procedures.

    So better just to compare invasive procedures. For which you say 1.8 million invasive surgical procedures.

    So we can take your number, and this still leaves us with Americans having around 4 times more invasive procedures per capita, than Israel.

    So we have spending data showing (depending on which figure you prefer) between 5 to 8 times more spending per capita on plastic surgery in America than Israel.

    And data indicating around 4 times more invasive procedures per capita in America, than Israel has total procedures since the industry was flat in revenue.

    This is a pretty huge discrepancy and not sure how you are going to claim otherwise.

    At some point, feel free to admit my original comment is accurate, and I am right about this country again, and that Americans have vastly more plastic surgery (which anyone can see visiting America).
  131. @utu
    Don't you understand that you can't compare the two statistics? Apples and organges problem. The article in Hebrew you linked clearly states that statistics in Israel are not gathered and not kept. The 10,000 number is an estimate and probably of only truly hard core surgical procedures which require certified surgeons (there are 130 of them in Israel) while the number of 15.9 million of procedure in the US includes all possible non invasive procedures that are performed by medical assistants and "technicians" in shopping malls. There are 6000 certified plastic surgeons in the US. Are you going to tell me that each of them performs 9 procedures a day? While in Israel surgeons perform one procedure every four days? (I assumed they work 300 days/year). Don't be ridiculous, Dimitry. You can't use the numbers you came up with to estimate how the plastic surgeries rates differ in the US and Israel.

    If we look at 6000 American surgeon and assume they perform one procedure per day 300 days per year we get 1,8 million of procedures. I mean serious procedures like rhinoplasty, breast augmentation, eyelids lift and so on. In 2017 there were 300,000 breast augmentations, 200,000 eyelid surgeries, 218,000 rhinoplasties. These numbers you can be found here

    https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2017/plastic-surgery-statistics-report-2017.pdf
     
    and they are congruent with the 1,8 million of procedures I just roughly estimated. Actually, the total number of cosmetic surgical procedures, not some BS ingrown hair removal, in 2017 was 1,790,832 which is damn close to what I got from assuming one procedure per day per surgeon 300 days a year.

    I was attributing your obstinacy to your great attachment to the idealized image of Israel which in your mind must be pure where girls remain virgins who do shave, do not wash and never think of sex and certainly under no circumstance would consider having a nose job done. But now I will have to consider a possibility that you are also not too smart. You do not need to die in Masada. This is not Masada issue. Snap out of it.

    At the point where we are. i.e, because we lack Israeli statistics while we have excellent data form the US, the only way to estimate the difference of rates between the US and Israel is by going with the numbers of certified surgeons as I did here:

    Surgeons| USA 6000/Israel 130 =46
    Population| USA 325/Israel 8.8 =36
    ——————————————–
    Surgeries rate| USA/Israel=46/36=1.28

    This is what Haaretz did and what the article in Hebrew you linked also stated that: thet number of per capita surgeons are similar because that's what matters.

    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4821202

    In Sao Paulo, Brazil, with a population of 12 million, there are 1,700 plastic surgeons – one for every 7,000 residents. In the United States there are 6,000 plastic surgeons for a population of 300 million, or one surgeon for every 50,000 residents. Exactly like in Israel. Indeed this craze was “imported” here from the U.S.
     

    It’s amusing to see how you can keep being disproved by data.

    We already know in cold data, that Americans spend 8.3 times more per capita on plastic surgery.

    In response, you wrote some stuff about secret hidden numbers and quote random sentence from some feminist blog with spelling mistakes each paragraph.

    Now we know already that 10,000 plastic surgeries were performed in 2006.

    In 2007 – there were 11,600 procedures.

    In 2008 – there were 12,500 procedures

    Indeed you are right to make the distinction between invasive and non-invasive:
    https://www.mako.co.il/women-magazine/diva/Article-574313b4e0aff11004.htm

    Between 2009-2015, expenditure in the industry has flat every year around $55 million per year (around NIS 200 million), and finance articles say the industry has been static, although the types of procedures have changed (with increase in fashions like botox).

    In America, 15.9 million procedures per year in 2015. But this data includes non-invasive procedures.

    So better just to compare invasive procedures. For which you say 1.8 million invasive surgical procedures.

    So we can take your number, and this still leaves us with Americans having around 4 times more invasive procedures per capita, than Israel.

    So we have spending data showing (depending on which figure you prefer) between 5 to 8 times more spending per capita on plastic surgery in America than Israel.

    And data indicating around 4 times more invasive procedures per capita in America, than Israel has total procedures since the industry was flat in revenue.

    This is a pretty huge discrepancy and not sure how you are going to claim otherwise.

    At some point, feel free to admit my original comment is accurate, and I am right about this country again, and that Americans have vastly more plastic surgery (which anyone can see visiting America).

    • Replies: @utu
    To arrive at definitive resolution of the question Israeli Society of Plastic & Aesthetic Surgery would have to be contacted to obtain data about the number of rhinoplasties, breast augmentations, face lifts performed, say, in 2017. Data for the US are easily available.

    Putting trust in numbers that you use is silly, imo. Using the number of surgeons as I did makes more sense but you do not like it. You want to believe that the rate of surgeries in Israel is 4-8 times lower while my estimate gets me 25% lower rate in Israel. In either case these are indirect estimates potentially caring huge error.

    https://www.plasticsurgery.org.il
    לכל שאלה: [email protected] | 050-6618890
     
  132. utu says:
    @Dmitry
    It's amusing to see how you can keep being disproved by data.

    We already know in cold data, that Americans spend 8.3 times more per capita on plastic surgery.

    In response, you wrote some stuff about secret hidden numbers and quote random sentence from some feminist blog with spelling mistakes each paragraph.

    Now we know already that 10,000 plastic surgeries were performed in 2006.

    In 2007 - there were 11,600 procedures.

    In 2008 - there were 12,500 procedures

    Indeed you are right to make the distinction between invasive and non-invasive:
    https://www.mako.co.il/women-magazine/diva/Article-574313b4e0aff11004.htm


    Between 2009-2015, expenditure in the industry has flat every year around $55 million per year (around NIS 200 million), and finance articles say the industry has been static, although the types of procedures have changed (with increase in fashions like botox).

    In America, 15.9 million procedures per year in 2015. But this data includes non-invasive procedures.

    So better just to compare invasive procedures. For which you say 1.8 million invasive surgical procedures.

    So we can take your number, and this still leaves us with Americans having around 4 times more invasive procedures per capita, than Israel.

    So we have spending data showing (depending on which figure you prefer) between 5 to 8 times more spending per capita on plastic surgery in America than Israel.

    And data indicating around 4 times more invasive procedures per capita in America, than Israel has total procedures since the industry was flat in revenue.

    This is a pretty huge discrepancy and not sure how you are going to claim otherwise.

    At some point, feel free to admit my original comment is accurate, and I am right about this country again, and that Americans have vastly more plastic surgery (which anyone can see visiting America).

    To arrive at definitive resolution of the question Israeli Society of Plastic & Aesthetic Surgery would have to be contacted to obtain data about the number of rhinoplasties, breast augmentations, face lifts performed, say, in 2017. Data for the US are easily available.

    Putting trust in numbers that you use is silly, imo. Using the number of surgeons as I did makes more sense but you do not like it. You want to believe that the rate of surgeries in Israel is 4-8 times lower while my estimate gets me 25% lower rate in Israel. In either case these are indirect estimates potentially caring huge error.

    https://www.plasticsurgery.org.il
    לכל שאלה: [email protected] | 050-6618890

  133. Talha says:
    @AaronB
    I hear you, no worries. I think all of us have to be more of less on our own in this internet space, and form temporary alliances at best. At least on unz.

    By the way – brilliant comment on the Sailer thread. Me and another brother are laughing at the position he has to take since it’s basically begging Jewish elite to cease and desist.

    Problem with the deal is that it’s not worthy for consideration since they already have what’s on offer. He might want to throw in the guarantee of defending Israel in perpetuity…oh…wait…

    Remember to always listen to pro-Zionist political elites since “I guarantee you it will have enormous positive reverberations…”

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Thanks! I didn't think anyone would see it, because he delays publishing my comments and it gets buried (he's so petty, can't laugh at himself). But I figured one or two might!

    Problem with the deal is that it’s not worthy for consideration since they already have what’s on offer. He might want to throw in the guarantee of defending Israel in perpetuity…oh…wait…
     
    Exactly. The Jews I know would just laugh at him. He's totally oblivious to how he comes off. Another milquetoast. That poor generation of older whites! But I am beginning now to see WHY Jews achieved the ascendancy they did over that generation.

    Lol, he really should throw in defending Israel - his masters might throw him a few scraps.
  134. @Talha
    By the way - brilliant comment on the Sailer thread. Me and another brother are laughing at the position he has to take since it's basically begging Jewish elite to cease and desist.

    Problem with the deal is that it's not worthy for consideration since they already have what's on offer. He might want to throw in the guarantee of defending Israel in perpetuity...oh...wait...

    Remember to always listen to pro-Zionist political elites since "I guarantee you it will have enormous positive reverberations..."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHmhf_wrcrM

    Peace.

    Thanks! I didn’t think anyone would see it, because he delays publishing my comments and it gets buried (he’s so petty, can’t laugh at himself). But I figured one or two might!

    Problem with the deal is that it’s not worthy for consideration since they already have what’s on offer. He might want to throw in the guarantee of defending Israel in perpetuity…oh…wait…

    Exactly. The Jews I know would just laugh at him. He’s totally oblivious to how he comes off. Another milquetoast. That poor generation of older whites! But I am beginning now to see WHY Jews achieved the ascendancy they did over that generation.

    Lol, he really should throw in defending Israel – his masters might throw him a few scraps.

    • Replies: @Talha
    You know, I replied to you here because I never post on his threads anymore - seems to bring out the worst trolls. Especially when the topic of Islam comes up, it's like some idiot frat party. But when I used to, he never blocked me - so I have to give him that.

    Another milquetoast.
     
    I was discussing with another brother how perhaps a lot of his antagonism against Islam and Muslims is because; 1) he obviously can't attack the obvious Zionist elite influence in society so just go for the cousins and 2) he must feel jilted that low-IQ Muslim societies could somehow keep ourselves from being culturally overwhelmed.

    I mean, even in a place like Morocco where the king has very good relations with the Jewish minority and the government even helped repair and restore a very old synagogue in Casablanca as part of Moroccan heritage, they don't feel the need to virtue-signal by letting the Jewish minority take over - and won't see Jews dancing with a picture of Trump like this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW2nxAUSIfo

    That must piss people like Sailer off so much.

    Pretty good for 84 IQ, eh? ;)
    https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2015/01/150303/moroccans-among-people-with-the-lowest-iq-in-the-world-french-weekly/

    Peace.
  135. @AaronB
    Thanks! I didn't think anyone would see it, because he delays publishing my comments and it gets buried (he's so petty, can't laugh at himself). But I figured one or two might!

    Problem with the deal is that it’s not worthy for consideration since they already have what’s on offer. He might want to throw in the guarantee of defending Israel in perpetuity…oh…wait…
     
    Exactly. The Jews I know would just laugh at him. He's totally oblivious to how he comes off. Another milquetoast. That poor generation of older whites! But I am beginning now to see WHY Jews achieved the ascendancy they did over that generation.

    Lol, he really should throw in defending Israel - his masters might throw him a few scraps.

    You know, I replied to you here because I never post on his threads anymore – seems to bring out the worst trolls. Especially when the topic of Islam comes up, it’s like some idiot frat party. But when I used to, he never blocked me – so I have to give him that.

    Another milquetoast.

    I was discussing with another brother how perhaps a lot of his antagonism against Islam and Muslims is because; 1) he obviously can’t attack the obvious Zionist elite influence in society so just go for the cousins and 2) he must feel jilted that low-IQ Muslim societies could somehow keep ourselves from being culturally overwhelmed.

    I mean, even in a place like Morocco where the king has very good relations with the Jewish minority and the government even helped repair and restore a very old synagogue in Casablanca as part of Moroccan heritage, they don’t feel the need to virtue-signal by letting the Jewish minority take over – and won’t see Jews dancing with a picture of Trump like this:

    That must piss people like Sailer off so much.

    Pretty good for 84 IQ, eh? 😉
    https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2015/01/150303/moroccans-among-people-with-the-lowest-iq-in-the-world-french-weekly/

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    That's good to know that he didn't block you. I give him credit for that. But then you probably never insulted him knowing you - I did :)

    It's funny, I was thinking that one big reason this older generation of whites can't accept the truth about Jewish intelligence is because it must be deeply humiliating to realize you let an inferior tribe rule over you. I suspect the Indians must have felt something similar when they realized the British weren't actually smarter than them.

    But the way to get better is to face the situation, like the Indians. Historically, it happens, if your game is down you might get ruled by your inferiors. No big deal - but you gotta deal with it.

    I suspect there is more than a little truth in your theory - a lot of his, and Derbyshires, focus on blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims is because they can't face up to the real psychopathic elite - and this plays right into the elites hands, of course. And yes, I think Islam's resilience in the face of Jews and decadence in general arouses more than a little resentment in them.

    Well, Morocco has some incredible architecture and old cityscapes - if that's an 84 IQ, I want some!
  136. As an Armenian I would like to say that what the author of this article says is more-or-less true. The strategic alliance between Russia and Armenia is symbiotic, as it benefits Russia and Armenia. That said, no rational Armenian can envision an Armenia in the South Caucasus without Russian backing. While Armenia provides Russia with an opportunity to have a foothold in a strategically important place like the South Caucasus (which is part of Russia’s vulnerable underbelly) Russia provides my small, landlocked and impoverished nation with protection against large regional predators like Turkey and Azerbaijan.

    While Armenia does have Western-funded political activists, as does Russia, a vast majority of Armenians are streadfastly pro-Russian. Russians and Armenians have been natural allies for over two hundred years now. Nothing and no one will change this.

    Nikol Pashinyan is just a street punk who was able to tap into the Armenian people’s justified anger at the corrupt government in Armenia. The current political crisis in Yerevan therefore has nothing to do with Russia. However, there is a danger that Western interests operating in the country will try to take advantage of the situation at some point. Armenia is the only nation in the strategic region Mocow can genuinely trust. So, I would like to see Moscow keep a very close eye on events in Yerevan and, if need be, somehow get involved. Most Armenians I know would like to see former Gazprom executive Karen Karapetyan as Armenia’s Prime Minister.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Well, technically he is already PM.
  137. @Talha
    You know, I replied to you here because I never post on his threads anymore - seems to bring out the worst trolls. Especially when the topic of Islam comes up, it's like some idiot frat party. But when I used to, he never blocked me - so I have to give him that.

    Another milquetoast.
     
    I was discussing with another brother how perhaps a lot of his antagonism against Islam and Muslims is because; 1) he obviously can't attack the obvious Zionist elite influence in society so just go for the cousins and 2) he must feel jilted that low-IQ Muslim societies could somehow keep ourselves from being culturally overwhelmed.

    I mean, even in a place like Morocco where the king has very good relations with the Jewish minority and the government even helped repair and restore a very old synagogue in Casablanca as part of Moroccan heritage, they don't feel the need to virtue-signal by letting the Jewish minority take over - and won't see Jews dancing with a picture of Trump like this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW2nxAUSIfo

    That must piss people like Sailer off so much.

    Pretty good for 84 IQ, eh? ;)
    https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2015/01/150303/moroccans-among-people-with-the-lowest-iq-in-the-world-french-weekly/

    Peace.

    That’s good to know that he didn’t block you. I give him credit for that. But then you probably never insulted him knowing you – I did 🙂

    It’s funny, I was thinking that one big reason this older generation of whites can’t accept the truth about Jewish intelligence is because it must be deeply humiliating to realize you let an inferior tribe rule over you. I suspect the Indians must have felt something similar when they realized the British weren’t actually smarter than them.

    But the way to get better is to face the situation, like the Indians. Historically, it happens, if your game is down you might get ruled by your inferiors. No big deal – but you gotta deal with it.

    I suspect there is more than a little truth in your theory – a lot of his, and Derbyshires, focus on blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims is because they can’t face up to the real psychopathic elite – and this plays right into the elites hands, of course. And yes, I think Islam’s resilience in the face of Jews and decadence in general arouses more than a little resentment in them.

    Well, Morocco has some incredible architecture and old cityscapes – if that’s an 84 IQ, I want some!

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Incidentally, I submitted this as part of a comment to Steve and it was the only one not published! It seems it struck home more than I knew :)


    s funny, I was thinking that one big reason this older generation of whites can’t accept the truth about Jewish intelligence is because it must be deeply humiliating to realize you let an inferior tribe rule over you. I suspect the Indians must have felt something similar when they realized the British weren’t actually smarter than them.

    But the way to get better is to face the situation, like the Indians. Historically, it happens, if your game is down you might get ruled by your inferiors. No big deal – but you gotta deal with it.
     
  138. @AaronB
    That's good to know that he didn't block you. I give him credit for that. But then you probably never insulted him knowing you - I did :)

    It's funny, I was thinking that one big reason this older generation of whites can't accept the truth about Jewish intelligence is because it must be deeply humiliating to realize you let an inferior tribe rule over you. I suspect the Indians must have felt something similar when they realized the British weren't actually smarter than them.

    But the way to get better is to face the situation, like the Indians. Historically, it happens, if your game is down you might get ruled by your inferiors. No big deal - but you gotta deal with it.

    I suspect there is more than a little truth in your theory - a lot of his, and Derbyshires, focus on blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims is because they can't face up to the real psychopathic elite - and this plays right into the elites hands, of course. And yes, I think Islam's resilience in the face of Jews and decadence in general arouses more than a little resentment in them.

    Well, Morocco has some incredible architecture and old cityscapes - if that's an 84 IQ, I want some!

    Incidentally, I submitted this as part of a comment to Steve and it was the only one not published! It seems it struck home more than I knew 🙂

    s funny, I was thinking that one big reason this older generation of whites can’t accept the truth about Jewish intelligence is because it must be deeply humiliating to realize you let an inferior tribe rule over you. I suspect the Indians must have felt something similar when they realized the British weren’t actually smarter than them.

    But the way to get better is to face the situation, like the Indians. Historically, it happens, if your game is down you might get ruled by your inferiors. No big deal – but you gotta deal with it.

    • LOL: Talha
  139. @Arevordi
    As an Armenian I would like to say that what the author of this article says is more-or-less true. The strategic alliance between Russia and Armenia is symbiotic, as it benefits Russia and Armenia. That said, no rational Armenian can envision an Armenia in the South Caucasus without Russian backing. While Armenia provides Russia with an opportunity to have a foothold in a strategically important place like the South Caucasus (which is part of Russia's vulnerable underbelly) Russia provides my small, landlocked and impoverished nation with protection against large regional predators like Turkey and Azerbaijan.

    While Armenia does have Western-funded political activists, as does Russia, a vast majority of Armenians are streadfastly pro-Russian. Russians and Armenians have been natural allies for over two hundred years now. Nothing and no one will change this.

    Nikol Pashinyan is just a street punk who was able to tap into the Armenian people's justified anger at the corrupt government in Armenia. The current political crisis in Yerevan therefore has nothing to do with Russia. However, there is a danger that Western interests operating in the country will try to take advantage of the situation at some point. Armenia is the only nation in the strategic region Mocow can genuinely trust. So, I would like to see Moscow keep a very close eye on events in Yerevan and, if need be, somehow get involved. Most Armenians I know would like to see former Gazprom executive Karen Karapetyan as Armenia's Prime Minister.

    Well, technically he is already PM.

    • Replies: @Arevordi
    Karen Karapetyan is the country's interim PM. He became PM when Serj Sargsyan unexpectedly resigned. He nevertheless does not have much power. Unfortunately, it's beginning to look like Nikol Pashinyan will get the country's Premiership. In any case, this is a domestic matter. It has absolutely nothing to do with Armenia's ties to Russia. Western funded propaganda outlets and activists are however trying to present it as such. Russian-Armenian ties go back over two hundred years. A vast majority of Armenians are pro-Russian. Nothing and no one will change this.
  140. @Mitleser
    Well, technically he is already PM.

    Karen Karapetyan is the country’s interim PM. He became PM when Serj Sargsyan unexpectedly resigned. He nevertheless does not have much power. Unfortunately, it’s beginning to look like Nikol Pashinyan will get the country’s Premiership. In any case, this is a domestic matter. It has absolutely nothing to do with Armenia’s ties to Russia. Western funded propaganda outlets and activists are however trying to present it as such. Russian-Armenian ties go back over two hundred years. A vast majority of Armenians are pro-Russian. Nothing and no one will change this.

  141. @Greasy William
    Yeah I would bang but she is too ethnic for me. Is she an Armo? I dunno... 6/10 face, 8/10 body? Post more girls that look like that jailbait, half Russian/half Tatar gymnast.

    I'm really getting sick of people saying that there is some kind of contradiction between acknowledging the scientific fact that Iranians are subhuman scum while also regarding Iranian women as, in general, the world's most beautiful.

    1. There were plenty of racist whites in the American South who got with black girls and Nazis who got with Jewish girls. Just cause you think certain women are part of a subhuman group doesn't mean you can't fuck them.

    2. I don't believe I've ever described Iranian women as "hot" and if I did, I was mistaken. They are beautiful, not hot. Those aren't the same thing. Taylor Swift is the most beautiful woman ever and she has all the sex appeal of a carrot. "SyrianGirl", in contrast, is hot but not particularly beautiful.

    3. Mexicanas are infinitely hotter than Iranian girls. This idea that I am pining after Iranian girls is just false. I have millions of subhuman Latinas to get through before I could even begin to think about Iranian sluts, and by then I will likely be so old that they will no longer want me.

    edit: There is no such thing as "Persians"! This is a lie made up by Iranophiles. Most Iranians are not Persian and the only "Iranians" who ever describe themselves as such are Iranian Jews.

    ” Iranians are subhuman scum ” (!!!!!!!)
    I bet you’re a Jew (if you’re not one of those arrogant pales that reminds us of the color of the dead).
    I vomited all this bullshit and your psychic complexes!
    I order you to show yourself to the first psychiatrist as soon as possible.
    look how bad the world is that a psycho fool like this man called Iranian subhuman !!!
    Iranian that civilization, culture and science of the world owe to them.
    Bring your head out of your ass and go study a little !!
    Finally, I wish there is here a photo of this superhuman!! until we see that and enjoy !!!

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