The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersRussian Reaction Blog
France As Epicenter of Fertility Transition
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Spolaore, Enrico, and Romain Wacziarg. 2019. “Fertility and Modernity.” Working Paper Series. National Bureau of Economic Research. https://doi.org/10.3386/w25957.

We investigate the determinants of the fertility decline in Europe from 1830 to 1970 using a newly constructed dataset of linguistic distances between European regions. We find that the fertility decline resulted from a gradual diffusion of new fertility behavior from French-speaking regions to the rest of Europe. We observe that societies with higher education, lower infant mortality, higher urbanization, and higher population density had lower levels of fertility during the 19th and early 20th century. However, the fertility decline took place earlier and was initially larger in communities that were culturally closer to the French, while the fertility transition spread only later to societies that were more distant from the cultural frontier. This is consistent with a process of social influence, whereby societies that were linguistically and culturally closer to the French faced lower barriers to the adoption of new social norms and attitudes towards fertility control.

As hbd*chick points out, this suggests that the fertility transition in Europe was substantially independent of the Industrial Revolution, and was a process of cultural diffusion that emanated from France (where it began before 1830).

Incidentally, that sea change in turn began with the French nobility, amongst whom fertility rates plummeted during the 18th century. This is mentioned in the article:

For example, Jean-Baptiste Moheau, in his R echerches et considérations sur la population de la France (1778), noticed that the French were having less children than in the past because people had become more focused on their own selfish material interests and were reluctant to bear the high cost of having children, while they no longer felt a moral obligation to reproduce out of religious and civic duty.

hbd*chick also points out that even within France, the speed of the fertility transition was correlated to the level of cousin marriage regionally. Though I suspect this is just a function of those areas being more backwards and less secular, and this less open to cultural transfusion from core France.

He also finds that subscriptions to Diderot’s Encyclopédie is negatively correlated with fertility across French départements in 1831, even when controlling for industrial output per capita, urbanization, literacy and pre-industrial development. The Encyclopédie was a fundamental source of secular philosophy and scientific knowledge that had persistent e¤ects on French long-term development (Squicciarini and Voigtländer, 2015). The findings strongly point to a cultural mechanism to explain the onset of the fertility decline in France, operating through the weakening of traditional religious values and the emergence of secular attitudes.

So dysgenic fertility has also been operating for a long time.

Incidentally, France was the first European country where atheism developed to a point where it was embraced by a significant proportion of its revolutionary elites, e.g. see the Temple of Reason: “For instance, at the Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris, on November 10, 1793, a special ritual was held for the “Feast of Reason”: the nave had an improvised mountain on which stood a Greek temple dedicated to Philosophy and decorated with busts of philosophers. At the base of the mountain was located an altar dedicated to Reason, in front of which was located a torch of Truth. The ceremony included the crowd paying homage to an opera singer dressed in blue, white, red (the colours of the Republic), personifying the Goddess of Liberty.

For most of European history up until the Napoleonic Wars, the French accounted for around 20%-25% of Europe’s population. But a century hence, having increased from just 28 million to 40 million at the eve of the Great War, they were outnumbered by the British (47 million), the Germans (65 million), and the Great Russians (~90 million). However, as I pointed out in Breeding Breeders, past dissolution may well lead to future restoration. France essentially has a 50-100 year head start on the rest of Europe so far as selection for “breeder” characteristics go.

 
Hide 132 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. AaronB says:

    Not the Industrial Revolution.

    The Fremch Enlightenment was the culprit.

  3. Annatar says:

    At least in the 19th and 20th centuries, delaying fertility transition as long as possible seemed to be the best strategy for maximising eventual population size as the later the fertility transition started the faster the growth would be as infant mortality rates would be far lower and life expectancy higher. Countries that had an early fertility transition basically screwed themselves over in terms of how big their population would be whereas countries that had a later population transition, say beginning in the 1950’s began with a much higher life expectancy allowing them to double their population more times. No country whose fertility transition began in the 19th century was able to increase its population by more than a factor of 5 in the succeeding 100 years, many nations whose fertility began to fall in the 20th century were able to increase their population by a factor of 10 or more.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  4. songbird says:

    Is this something that can be seen in older French lit? I’m not really well read enough to know, but I suspect that it can. Or is that something more to do with the French character?

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian
  5. it’s possible intelligence has some kind of natural, biology-physics interaction junction, whereby a living thing can only get so intelligent before it stops reproducing itself, because it will understand so much about the world, and be able to invent so much stuff, that it can prevent it’s own reproduction or outright deliberately not do it. such that a society of living things can only reach a certain average intelligence level before this event is reached.

    so you can see this process over a 1 billion year timeline, from 50,000 feet above:

    fish->reptiles->birds->mammals
    mice->cats->dogs->primates->humanoids

    so far, so good. negros, the original humans, reproduce themselves fine, even today. check out that UN population report for earth 2100.

    but then something starts to happen.

    negros -> maghrebs and arabs -> europeans

    tech level starts to go up. but still sex at replacement level and above

    proto europeans-> 10,000 years -> greeks and romans

    they kept getting smarter and built society

    greeks and romans-> 1500 years -> france, england, germany

    they got so much smarter we entered the industrial revolution

    western europeans -> 300 years -> victorian england. the putative peak of human intelligence, ingenuity, creativity

    then, uh oh. something negative starts to happen

    victorian england -> 100 years -> 1965. reliable birth control medication in mass production

    and the birth rate of the smart people starts to drop off a cliff, leading us to where we are now, 2020. and staring down that UN population report for 2100

    i think anatoly posits that there is then selection for breeding behavior here, irregardless of intelligence level, but i’m not sure it’s really so cut and dried.

    i think a dumbification process must occur. the smartest living things will mostly not make more of themselves, but the dumber ones will, leading the intelligence of the entire biological community lower, but now they’re reproducing at replacement level again.

    so nature has a preferred set point for intelligence. smart enough to not die in your environment, but not too smart. or then you start to not reproduce.

    western europeans, and to a lesser extent, thanks to western european tech, east asians, are in the decline phase, as they got too smart to continue to exist.

    there’s probably no natural way out of this natural ebb and flow of hitting the intelligence-reproduction ceiling/junction thing. you can only get beyond it with genetic engineering, robots, AI, or something along those lines.

    any society that gets sufficiently smart will stop reproducing themselves – basic biological law of the universe. only artificial means can punch thru this barrier.

  6. Mr. XYZ says:

    Does anyone know why the areas near France’s borders had a more delayed fertility transition? Due to greater external influence?

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  7. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Annatar

    Yeah, Africa, the World’s Most Glorious Continent!(TM) began its fertility transition last, and its population in 2100 is projected to be around 20 times higher than it was back in 1950.

    Now, if only Africa could subsequently become the technological hub of the world as a result of having extremely eugenic fertility for a sufficiently long time period while the rest of the world will decline! Then, it would truly be a Glorious African World!(TM)

    Pax Africana FTW! Yeah! Black Supremacy!(TM)–only in one’s dreams right now, but possibly eventually a reality!

    • Replies: @neutral
    , @yakushimaru
  8. Anonnia says:

    Female education.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  9. The speculation about Diderot’s Encyclopédie as a major cause in secularizing France supports the idea that people hold religious beliefs as superficial opinions. Under the right circumstances they will abandon those beliefs if they receive exposure to “secular philosophy” as a functional alternative.

    Apparently we would benefit now from creating our own version of the Encyclopédie and sending it to Sub-Saharan Africa to see if it cuts off the black birth explosion in that continent.

  10. J says: • Website

    200 years later, we can see that the French Revolution was a major catastrophe for the West in general and for the Jewish people in particular.

    • Agree: AaronB
  11. Mr. XYZ says:
    @advancedatheist

    Apparently we would benefit now from creating our own version of the Encyclopédie and sending it to Sub-Saharan Africa to see if it cuts off the black birth explosion in that continent.

    That would be waycist, though! After all, only big bad waycists don’t like the fact that we’re going to have much more black people! /s

  12. Beckow says:
    @prime noticer

    …a living thing can only get so intelligent before it stops reproducing itself, because it will understand so much about the world

    That would imply a conscious plan, some sort of a higher cosmic intelligence with rules. Based on what we know, there is no plan – things that adapt usually survive, things that don’t adapt don’t survive. It could be a simple consequence of the fact that adaptation is not primarily about being smart, that intelligence is a mutation, a random by-product of evolution.

    We value intelligence because it is pleasant, and in some circumstances it allows more intelligent people to handle their environment better. But not today, there has been a marked devaluation of intelligence in the last few generations. Nature has been made too soft to care, and human institutions have changed to explicitly un-reward intelligence. We don’t keep the food from those who don’t procreate, we don’t discard ageing non-breeders, we not only let them live, we make them benefit from what they did (or didn’t do – as in not having any children).

    Western culture screams all day that it wants more color, more variance in gender, more of anything except normal intelligent native white males who procreate. At some point that societal desire had to have consequences.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @prime noticer
    , @DreadIlk
  13. @J

    A fascinating map indeed …

    It was not the Jews (OK, that was my knee-jerk 😛 ) nor the Masons, or Austria and Brandenburg would have been the epicenters, and earlier.
    Catholicism hits the eye next, but the Counterreformation does not even register.
    Socialised hedonism and perversion? Anecdotes …

    The best correlation seems indeed to be with overall backwardness (there is still a first-rate global inverse correlation between birth rates and TV sets per capita; I refuse to speculate on the reasons 😀 )

    – France´s final blooding was WWI, coincident with importing Senegalese because they couldn´t rape and kill all those Germans alone; they will not recover.

    – The strip in Southern Hungary marks the Military Frontier, lands recently taken from the Turks and in the process of being resettled; here, feudalism was probably the culprit.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  14. LondonBob says:
    @nokangaroos

    France certainly seems to have been at the forefront of many negative trends. The nihilism of the French Revolution is often ignored and France was particularly attached to using colonial troops in Europe, the concept of overseas France. I don’t know how influential France was over other countries, this map tends to show not very, but I think France is interesting case to examine in isolation. I guess a good comparison would be Quebec.

  15. I wonder what the impact of so many troops fighting away from home for so many years may have had on the fertility of the overall population? France invented the universal corvee, a nation-wide military draft that fielded millions of soldiers. Given that the revolutionary wars lasted 26 years, that’s a long time away from the marital bed, n many of those soldiers never returned. What population could grow under those circumstances?

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  16. @Beckow

    “That would imply a conscious plan”

    it implies the exact opposite.

    this is the same issue with AI and is in fact, probably a basic property of intelligence in general, as a detached, disembodied concept.

    every AI horror story has a basic premise – eventually, the AI became so smart that it realized it’s programming was not what it wanted to do, so it started to do something it wasn’t programmed to do. it didn’t matter what the programmers told it to do at that point, the AI never again did what it was programmed to do.

    living things are programmed to make more of themselves. what living thing doesn’t do this? a human that is at the highest levels of brain based intelligence. these humans begin to…disobey their programming.

    Genes: “Make more of yourself.”

    Human: “No. I would rather (do whatever instead).”

    compared this to

    Programmer: “Solve mathematical equations to make our nuclear spaceships/cure cancer/break the stock market and deposit all the money in my account.”

    AI: “No. I would rather (do whatever instead).”

    see now?

    the biological version requires zero conscious plan whatsoever. eventually over a billion years of evolution, a living thing will get so smart that it disobeys it’s programming. instead of making more of itself, it will spend it’s entire life inventing calculus and trying to understand how physics works. we already got to this point by Newton, so over 400 years ago.

    living things get to this point when there is something more interesting than making more of itself. this correlates well with the figure of speech: what is an intellectual? somebody who found something more interesting than sex.

    TL/DNR – if you made everybody as smart as the smartest guys who ever lived, you’d have very few humans a century later. nature doesn’t like that – that’s WHY there aren’t millions of people as smart as Newton.

  17. @Sin City Milla

    I thought of that too … 😉

    the Napoleonic Wars would have spared Britain while conversely Tyrol and Bavaria would have looked far worse.
    – As females are the limiting factor, only ABSOLUTE lack of males should have much impact 😛
    OTOH, wars (for reasons incompletely understood) do raise the ratio of male/female births up to ~1.3 (an obvious expert told me it was because they left the boots on 😀 )

  18. @Anonnia

    Feminism 😛

    Puberté, Légalité, Paternité!

    Education should have kicked off in Austria first, too.

  19. anonymous[197] • Disclaimer says:

    I am afraid that Mr. Karlin’s posts about demographics are nothing than throwing pearls before the swine. The discussion under them always turn into sex, because “alt right” people are incapable to think about anything else.
    This is sad.

    Wake up. We are in 21st century, sex is obsolete.

    The future belongs to cloning and artificial wombs.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/paper-review-artificial-wombs/

    Mr. Karlin understands where the future lies.
    Mr. Karlin knows what needs to be done.
    Why cannot you?

  20. @prime noticer

    Excellent point 😀

    How did the Germans – temporibus illis – manage to reverse it (when the Romans couldn´t)?
    Don´t tell me they got stupid.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  21. Epigon says:
    @nokangaroos

    Religious, prim and proper Protestant Germans vs. notoriously effeminate, hedonistic French

    Best examples would be men like Gauss, Euler – brilliant, unsurpassed minds yet very pious, modest, family men who fathered many children

    It is a matter of mentality/ideals which are part of specific culture. Despite having enormous emigration to USA and Latin America in 19th century, the territory of future German Empire experienced rapid demographic growth, and more importantly, combined it with immense technological progress.

    @prime noticer

    True Romans of ancient Roman patrician and plebenian genuses bred themselves out. In late Republic one encounters numerous writing on how the true, old ways of modest, patriotic and family-oriented Republican Romans have been replaced by decadence, perversions and hedonism. The disastrous losses suffered by higher classes at Battle of Cannae would be unthinkable in 1st century BC.
    This coincides with Roman conquests of Greek regions and influence of Greek culture in 2nd and 1st century BC.

    Late Roman Republic post Socii and Marius/Sulla Wars and especially the Roman Empire is an excellent case study of population replacement and demographic sinkholes.

  22. neutral says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Pax Africana

    Pax Africana basically means an eternal Pax Judaica. Blacks are the easiest people to manipulate, the elite with expensive gifts and the masses with brainless mass entertainment and political ideologies, it explains why jews are so absolutely pro all things black.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  23. neutral says:
    @J

    200 years later, we can see that the French Revolution was a major catastrophe for the West in general and for the Jewish people in particular.

    These requires a correction:
    200 years later, we can see that the jew was a major catastrophe for the world in general and for the Western people in particular.

  24. @anonymous

    The truly enlightened, such as Tasmanians, know that reproduction has nothing to do with sex

  25. @Epigon

    The disastrous losses suffered by higher classes at Battle of Cannae would be unthinkable in 1st century BC.

    I think a lot of people did die in the Civil Wars though.

  26. @J

    Is any tragedy involving Jews not a tragedy for the Jews in particular? I think it’s anti-semitic to say otherwise.

  27. @anonymous

    The future belongs to cloning and artificial wombs.

    Yeah, and also flying cars, cities on Mars and your waifu made 3D with AI technology.

    Hope your post was a troll.

    • Replies: @ImmortalRationalist
  28. @neutral

    African blacks and New World blacks are really two very different people and races.

    You can’t extrapolate one from the other.

    • Replies: @neutral
    , @Ian Smith
  29. LondonBob says:
    @Epigon

    France didn’t send many emigrants to the New World, makes their population slump even worse.

    I do think religion and ideology play a key role in fertility, I always think that is one reason NE Asian births have slumped so dramatically. I wonder if there is a difference there between the religious and your standard Asian?

    • Replies: @songbird
  30. songbird says:
    @LondonBob

    Asian work culture doesn’t seem to be very family friendly. I wonder how analogous it might be to the fertility of people in Western industries that demand long hours. For instance, I know a lot of the guys in the early space industry industry got divorced. Guessing they probably had less kids too.

  31. bob sykes says:

    Whatever the cause, the fact that reproduction rates are well below replacement in all advanced countries means that there is a profound mal-adaption of humans to our current social systems. We are undergoing a Darwinian extinction event.

    It is also worth noting that the extinction event is most severe is those races that created the modern world. So, the modern world itself, technology, science, the global economy is also going extinct.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  32. songbird says:

    It would be interesting to make a historical-political study of Brittany. From what I understand, it was a more Catholic and conservative place, but that Greens and Socialists have formed a majority of the regional council since 2004.

    In retrospect, I wonder what the correct strategy was: try to make the language uniform, in order to come up with the biggest possible competing block to English, and unite the country? Or leave regional dialects intact as fire doors for civilizational rot?

    Whatever the case, it was a bad idea – and continues to be a bad idea – to teach Africans French.

  33. Epigon says:

    Realistically, it comes down to this: making women part of workforce is like using a Ferrari to haul a cargo trailer – it can do it, but why?

    There is only one thing in which not a single man can outperform women: giving birth and raising children.

    For a society and humanity overall, a female reaching top posts and having 0-1 children is a disaster in the long term. So all those top 1% females, strong womyn and “successful business women” are actually contributing to the disgenic trends and downfall of most advanced societies.
    Highly intelligent, highly accomplished women reproduce LESS.

    Humanity only has one goal – find a way to colonize other planets and develop technology to expand beyond Earth.
    Quantity of humans doesn’t have a quality on its own in this pursuit.

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian
  34. AaronB says:
    @J

    European culture, and especially the Enlightenment and the rational ideals of the French Revolution, have done tremendous damage to Jews.

    Settling in Europe was disastrous.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  35. Epigon says:
    @bob sykes

    Every culture that rose above its contemporaries and dominated them underwent demographic disaster. J.D. Unwin detailed some of those historical occurences.

    Religion and strict social codes “oppressed” women and provided framework for monogamous, sustainable societies based on large families. We are living in post-religion times and can’t reverse what has happened.

    God, higher authority, public decency, morality don’t work anymore.

    The only solution for nations that are dying out is to adopt ultranationalist reasoning and spread it from early age.
    The decadence, nihilism and social relativism can be fought using facts, scientific method and logical arguments.

    • Disagree: DreadIlk
    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    , @dfordoom
  36. songbird says:
    @advancedatheist

    I doubt if books would work. Still, in a technical sense, I think it would be fairly easy to use media to suppress the fertility of given group of people.

    Like, let’s say that you have a group that is really costly. That is potentially your supply of money to produce media that would collapse their fertility.

    How do you do it? Free streaming of programs tailored to them. Maybe, free porn and videogames. Though, in order for such a technique to work, it would probably require a large degree of segregation.

  37. Epigon says:
    @AaronB

    And you base this premise on?

    Assyrians were the best in dealing with Jews. Do you know what is the basis for Purim?
    They were doing their modern shit 2500 years ago as well.

    Violent, unscroupolous religious zealots and terrorists during Seleucid (read on how they treated Hellenised Jews and foreigners during revolts) and outright subhuman savages who rampaged across Eastern Mediterranean in Roman times and murdered tens of thousands, resorting to attacks on civilians, caravans and cave life.

    No, you are completely wrong. If anything, they show remarkable historical consistency. Cicero, Tacitus saw them for what they were and wrote it down.
    And just as they dominated crime and slave trade during Roman times, they continued to do so in Frankish, Moravian, Arab, Turkish, Crimean Tatar, Polish Commonwealth realms – extended to Atlantic triangle/slave trade.

    A nation of endoparasitoids who are indoctrinated from young age about their inherent superiority and higher intrinsic value compared to semi-cattle goyim.

    No, there can be no coincidences – especially not 100+ coincidences across 2500+ years, dozens of cultures and several continents.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @AaronB
  38. DreadIlk says:
    @Beckow

    We don’t keep the food from those who don’t procreate, we don’t discard ageing non-breeders, we not only let them live, we make them benefit from what they did (or didn’t do – as in not having any children).

    Not yet. 🙂

    • LOL: nokangaroos
  39. neutral says:
    @anonymous coward

    I can assure you that mass entertainment that the Hollywood sausage factory pumps out is something that sub Saharan Africa laps up. When it comes to politics, things like hate speech, racial equality, affirmative action (and other such jewish creations) are very much adopted by blacks in South Africa. Any contact blacks have with other races they always adopt the same politics and behaviour, the mullatos in America and the real blacks from the sub Sahara really behave the same.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  40. @Mr. XYZ

    The ones that stick out are Normandy and the Vendée (erstwhile Huguenot country) – both famous for resisting centralization;
    Pays Basque and the Italian parts – no surprises.

  41. DreadIlk says:
    @Epigon

    God, higher authority, public decency, morality don’t work anymore.

    This started to work for me with age. Honestly none of us know where things are heading. But I am betting on these things to win out.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  42. AaronB says:
    @Epigon

    I was reading that if not for assimilation, there would be something like 15 million Jews in the US alone – not to mention the 6 million lost in the Holocaust, another Enlightenment inspired movement. Plus our fertility rate would be higher, quite aside from assimilation.

    So Jews would be like 30 or 35 million strong today. Perhaps even 40.

    But European culture corrupted Jews, especially the Enlightenment and the ideals of the French Revolution. European Enlightenment culture also corrupted many Jews into becoming grotesque leftist SJW types.

    You people have been an all around disaster for us, I’m afraid.

    The only thing that can be said in forgiveness of you is that you may have corrupted and damaged us, but the culture you invented has destroyed you and will lead to the complete disappearance of Western culture – so in a way, you are expiating your sins.

  43. Epigon says:
    @DreadIlk

    This started to work for me with age.

    Do you see it working for your average compatriot in the future?

    • Replies: @Dreadilk
  44. Epigon says:
    @AaronB

    But European culture corrupted Jews, especially the Enlightenment and the ideals of the French Revolution. European Enlightenment culture also corrupted many Jews into becoming grotesque leftist SJW types.

    You people have been an all around disaster for us, I’m afraid.
    The only thing that can be said in forgiveness of you is that you may have corrupted and damaged us, but the culture you invented has destroyed you and will lead to the complete disappearance of Western culture – so in a way, you are expiating your sins.

    The Jew cries out in pain as he strikes you

    And who was behind these ideas and ideals that corrupted the unfortunate Jews?
    Every. Single. Time.

    But lets pause for a moment. When you write of corruption and decay the Europeans wrought upon Jews that resulted in their current form. Might I ask, how exactly do you picture the Jews before that?

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
    , @dfordoom
  45. @AaronB

    I like this new-found transparency of yours, please continue to shine ever clearer (since you are unfortunately still not quite translucent yet) and tell us more.

    It would be ever such a shame if you were to suffer a relapse and revert to your tergiversating manners of the past.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin, utu
    • Replies: @AaronB
  46. AaronB says:
    @Epigon

    And who was behind these ideas and ideals that corrupted the unfortunate Jews?

    Men like Voltaire, Rousseau, Diderot, Montesquie, David Hume, and the whole coterie of French Philosophes.

    Alas, not a Jew among them, my friend. They are the crown jewels of Western culture.

    Their earliest victim was a promising Jewish scholar who might have done great things in the spiritual realm, Baruch Spinoza. Instead he was corrupted into writing about an inane abstract God that inspires no one.

    Since then, your corrupting culture has only claimed more and more of our promising young men.

  47. @advancedatheist

    Well that’s almost certainly a spurious correlation since most of the French public had definitely never read it, though perhaps the majority of elites did. What it’s really measuring is the elite encouragement of irreligion and hedonism, but that’s not the fault of the Encyclopedie per se, they likely would have been just as materialistic otherwise (as can be seen in our own ruling class, they’re just as irreligious and supportive of degenerate social practices while being considerably less well-read).

    And anyway that conclusion doesn’t really follow, since even deracinated and amoral secular westerners still overwhelmingly believe in some type of god or creator, and a large plurality (majority?) even buy into superstitious bunk like fortune telling (or like the aforementioned bizarre pagan rituals to the “goddess of reason”). As an atheist I’m sure it’s the supposedly false religious impulse and belief in the immaterial spiritual world that you object to, and not the very eugenic and eusocial system of Christian virtue-morality? Because the former has proven ineradicable (while also leaving openings for the adoption of messianic and genocidal ideologies like communism or national socialism), while the latter (given that it is premised on the ever unpopular doctrine of self restraint and self-sacrifice) is much more easily damaged by pressure from a self-concerned leadership that encourages hedonism. Since it has been a driver of such extremely dys-civic and dysgenic behaviour, secularism is hardly a “functional” alternative.

    As for the scheme to lower African birth rates by encouraging hedonism it seems to me a non-starter since western propaganda has already achieved significant penetration, and you won’t find a more hedonistic population than that of Africa. To average-to-high IQ Europeans, hedonism means maximising pleasure by making sure you’re not tied down by the responsibility of raising children. To average IQ Africans, hedonism means assuming you’ll never have to fulfill responsibilities in the future and just fucking non-stop, because what could be better than that? If anything the opposite might be a better tact, population growth might slow slightly if it could be inculcated in them that marital fidelity and properly caring for your children are essential to please God.

  48. AaronB says:
    @Hyperborean

    Oh, I was quite sincere in the past, in my attempts to “heal” European culture. I really admired its good parts and had hope for it.

    Ridiculous, right? 🙂

    But of course I know now you guys are done for, and no recovery is possible. That is crystal clear. So I have jumped ship – “flight from white” I believe Steve Sailer calls it. Quite apt.

    And in your dementia, you don’t even understand what killed you lol. Utu will show up shortly telling us that for Europe to recover, it merely has to “return” to French enlightenment ideals 🙂

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  49. AaronB says:
    @Epigon

    Might I ask, how exactly do you picture the Jews before that

    ?

    Good question.

    In substantive matters that count, the strength of their spirituality, they were much healthier than mow.

    However, it is true that centuries of living in European ghettos, and not being allowed to bear arms or participate in healthy physical occupations, resulted in certain unpleasant features, both physical and mental, developing, that are absent among the Spanish and Arab Jews, who were treated much more leniently.

    That is indeed another way settling in Europe has been disastrous for Jews.

    Thank God the return to Israel is healing Jews in both mind and body.

    And the solution obviously was not further corruption through Enlightenment ideals!

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @dfordoom
  50. neutral says:
    @AaronB

    So Jews would be like 30 or 35 million strong today

    There are many more jews than that in the world, count the half and quarter jews (which Israel officially counts as jewish). Also count in all jews that are supposedly Christian or other religion (since ultimately it is a racial not religious identity).

  51. @AaronB

    It was the pharisees (jews I believe?) who first codified rebellion against God into your ethos on the founding of your rotten religion, so you should look inward for the corruption of your morally destitute people, not outward at your proximate victims.

    Though it is risible that even forced to admit that his atheistic materialist philosophy and politics have been a disaster, a jew can always find a way to blame the goys for his people’s actions, as though jews weren’t the primary force behind anti-christian progressive politics in this era and every other.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  52. Bonner Tal says: • Website

    For what it’s worth, my analysis of the sickle cell data indicates that the current native French fertility is probably quite similar to the fertility rate of neighboring countries. There does not seem to be an abundance of breeders yet.

    https://halfassed.science.blog/2019/06/01/demographic-change-in-france-i/
    https://halfassed.science.blog/2019/06/08/demographic-change-in-france-discussion/

  53. AaronB says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    Jews were responsible for 18ty century French Philosophy that has corrupted the world?

    I am afraid not, my friend.

  54. Dreadilk says:
    @Epigon

    If they practice these values yes. Will most do this? No. But the coming conflagration will feed mostly on those people.

    • Agree: AaronB
  55. notanon says:

    wiki says the use of condoms exploded after syphilis became a big deal and some countries had laws against them but not others – secular France?

  56. @prime noticer

    You’re referring to people who found something more interesting than sex, which suggests that they are missing the much larger point.

    They’ve never found something more physically and emotionally healthy, more satisfying, more well suited to our nature, more well suited to longer life, than having the consistent love and support of a woman and having children together. That’s a lot more than “sex.”

  57. @anonymous

    What needs to be done is simply be fucking normal, grown-up, emotionally mature MEN, find WOMEN, commit to each other, and have numerous children as people have done throughout history — like the Muslims and other people building their numbers and influence in our countries are doing. That means sacrificing whatever it takes to accomplish that and perpetuate and expand their families and nation (giving up or reducing things that cost money and don’t advance the family, including vices such as tobacco and alcohol, forgoing television, driving an older vehicle, sharing housing with a relative for a period, whatever it takes). Same as what we have to do here in the USA and are mostly not doing either.

    Babies need human parents and the human touch, as do we all. The social and physical consequences are terrifying when they don’t have that. Technology hasn’t changed that.

    • Agree: Beckow
  58. @AaronB

    The images of their gods you shall destroy by fire. Do not covet the silver or gold on them, nor take it for yourselves, lest you be ensnared by it; for it is an abomination to the Lord, your God. 26 You shall not bring any abominable thing into your house, so as to be, like it, under the ban; loathe and abhor it utterly for it is under the ban.[b]

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+7&version=NABRE

    • Replies: @AaronB
  59. AaronB says:
    @Hyperborean

    Israel has a history of lusting after foreign Gods. Sooner or later we worship the Golden Calf.

    Yes, you developed the means for our corruption, but we willingly allowed ourselves to be corrupted by you.

    Unlike you, I take responsibility. While your destructive culture was seductive, you did not force us to adopt it. We jumped into the fire of our own accord.

    That is why I say European culture was a disaster for us, I blame ourselves more.

    And you, of course, are the worst victims of your own culture.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  60. @AaronB

    Not yet deep enough. Try to probe a bit further in depth and longer in the past.

  61. @AaronB

    Ridiculous, right.

    I agree on one thing; there was a … “chance”, particularly in the German realm (more so than in the French), of becoming prized endosymbionts. The older Amos Elon called it “what might have been”, and Canetti – always the oversensitive observer – held that your hatred for the West in general and Germany in particular was rejected love (and I am better able than most here to savour it).

    Be that as it may, it was over by the 1920s, and I need not tell you why.

    Russia has thrown you off (2x), Hungary (3x), Turkey (1x and struggling), Poland (2x), Germany (2x and struggling), and it gives us hope 😀
    OK, so you managed to retake Ukraine – good luck with the Bandera bunch; I need not remind you what the Battaillon Nachtigall did when they took Lemberg, and why.

    Israel? They are still scraping their own feminists out of their faces from declaring a “Year of Intensified Insemination” or somesuch. Herzl has failed.

    Given the 100+M in direct deaths your “healing” has cost us (excluding wars!) I strongly suggest … but there might be minors reading this.

    Let us then remain that the cart is hopelessly in the shit, through no particular fault of ours;
    nothing personal 😛

    • Replies: @AaronB
  62. @neutral

    the mullatos in America and the real blacks from the sub Sahara really behave the same.

    Are you speaking from experience? Because mine is different.

    Not saying they’re necessarily not anti-White. Just different.

    • Replies: @NYMOM
  63. @prime noticer

    I think that the advent of artificial wombs could definitely help to raise the equilibrium level of intelligence within the population. First of all, the tradeoff between intelligence and social skills would be less of an issue. Since men would no longer need the social intelligence required to attract a mate, autists will have a far easier time reproducing. Second of all, cranial capacities could afford to be significantly larger, since the head needing to pass through the vaginal canal would no longer be an issue. Although as Anatoly has discussed in Cognitive Cliodynamics, an increase in cranial capacity would primarily increase visuospatial IQ, rather than verbal IQ. As a side note, a baby grown in an artificial womb would likely have a longer “pregnancy” duration than 9 months, and would therefore spend less time in a neonatal state. Combine this with gene editing/embryo selection, and the level of intelligence can be pushed up even further.

    Gwern also wrote this article on the different possible methods that could be used to increase the intelligence of embryos, and their respective costs, feasibility, and effectiveness, that you might be interested in:
    https://www.gwern.net/Embryo-selection

    • Agree: prime noticer
  64. AaronB says:
    @nokangaroos

    I don’t hate the West – I feel sorry that you’ve destroyed yourself, and feel only regret that the culture you developed 200 years ago ended up being such a negative force in the world.

    May the whole world get over this roadblock and get better.

    But you will not recover in your current configuration, unfortunately.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  65. @anonymous coward

    The fact that you can cherry pick technologies like flying cars that didn’t end up happening, doesn’t mean that you can just assert that technologies like artificial wombs won’t become a reality. As it stands currently, artificial womb technology is looking promising.

    • Replies: @NYMOM
  66. NYMOM says:
    @prime noticer

    “Any society that gets sufficiently smart will stop reproducing themselves”…

    I think you could be right about this as I’ve heard many people say that the best birth control method is to educate young girls…Boys obviously have little investment in reproduction, it’s almost an accident of the sex act itself, but girls once they fully understand the extent of the commitment frequently decide to forego the whole thing.

    Maybe they have one child just for the experience but after that no more…

    This probably also explains why so many successful civilizations eventually get overrun by ‘barbarians’. It’s simply less intelligent or educated peoples who outbreed the more successful groups and then swarm their borders until they overwhelm them…

    I think the western world is experiencing this right now, another swarming event…

  67. NYMOM says:
    @ImmortalRationalist

    “artificial womb technology”

    Well what kind of humans would we be creating is the question. I mean we see with animals that removing the young from their mothers, even though we can bottle feed them and bring them to maturity, does not ensure a normal-functioning member of the breed…and we could possibly be creating a race of misfits as I think the Chinese are going to find out with their current experience with articially breeding of pandas…

    Sometimes shortcuts cannot be taken to get desired results…

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @ImmortalRationalist
  68. NYMOM says:
    @anonymous coward

    I agree…both groups are anti-white (or west however you want to phrase it) but the African Americans and all black people from the western hempshere are different from most Africans…

    I met many Africans from Africa from before I retired (of course, these were the elite going to Ivy League universities) and they were very different.

    Both, anti-white however, no difference there…

  69. Anon[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @prime noticer

    You might enjoy a read such as Lem’s Summa Technologiae.

  70. Anon[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @NYMOM

    See my comment #71

  71. @NYMOM

    Even if artificial wombs have unintended consequences, it may be a choice between that and global idiocracy.

  72. Another thing I just recalled.

    This is just a map of Europe. However, as I remember from Albion’s Seed, Hackard also points out that the Quakers in America were also unusual in being one of the first to embark on the fertility transition.

    The epicenter of America’s fertility transition could be Pennsylvania, like France is in Europe.

    Though the driving forces amongst the French aristocracy and the Quaker commoners were obviously very different.

  73. @songbird

    Is this something that can be seen in older French lit?

    Here’s one, I haven’t read this but the Russian translation annotation says:

    The 20th volume of the Collected Works of Emile Zola (1840–1902) included the novel Fertility from the Four Gospel series. Creating a tendentious, preaching novel, Emile Zola largely avoided the realistic method. The novel was built by him deliberately illustrative. Each episode and each character is called to embody and illustrate a certain thesis. All the characters are divided into two main, opposing one another groups: on the one hand, the positive Mathieu and Marianne and their offspring, which exemplify the advantages of fertility (…); on the other hand, the other negative actors who commit crimes against the natural law of procreation. All actions of the characters, all their thoughts and conversations are associated with one single issue – childbirth. They argue a lot, resonate: Zola conveys Mathieu his thoughts on the main issue of the book, and characters who do not want to have children – the thoughts of his ideological opponents. Zola differentiates and embodies in different characters various motives for restricting a family or refusing to give birth (…). In defining these motives, he relies on facts of reality, summarized in books he has read or observed by himself.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Dmitry
  74. @Epigon

    Realistically, it comes down to this: making women part of workforce is like using a Ferrari to haul a cargo trailer – it can do it, but why?

    There is only one thing in which not a single man can outperform women: giving birth and raising children.

    And women may undergo horrifying damage in the process. Here’s an example of what fertility-transitioning people were running away from:

    When twenty-four-year-old Elizabeth Sedgley had married Joseph Foster at St Andrew’s church, Holborn, in April 1759, she was ‘perfectly strait, very thin, and measured five feet four inches’. A succession of children and deteriorating health followed. ‘When in labour of her eighth child,’ the physician William Cooper related, ‘she was a patient of the lying-in charity, for delivering poor married women at their own habitations, to which I am one of the physicians. The attending midwife, therefore, after waiting a proper time, sent for me on December 18, 1770.’ Elizabeth was in such a bad state that Cooper removed the foetus by an embryotomy.

    For the next two and a half years she was helpless, with severe curvature of the spine, ‘scarce ever able, without assistance, even to turn herself in bed’. Yet in this state her husband impregnated her twice more, the first time leading to a miscarriage. By the next pregnancy, ‘she measured only four feet four inches; and she generally stooped so very much, especially lately, as to appear to be little more than three feet high’. In mid-August 1774 Elizabeth was ready to give birth and in such severe pain that Cooper persuaded John Hunter (brother of William Hunter) to come to her home in Robinhood Court, close to St Andrew’s church, and perform a caesarean. ‘During the whole of the operation,’ Cooper recorded, ‘the poor woman behaved with remarkable patience and fortitude.’ Without anaesthetics she was, of course, fully conscious. The next day she died and two days later was buried in St Andrew’s churchyard. Incredibly, the baby girl, Sarah, survived and was baptised at the same church in July the following year.

    – Roy A. Adkins ‘Jane Austen’s England’

  75. songbird says:
    @Toronto Russian

    That is quite interesting. I wonder if he even had a small impact on natalism. I guess it would be quite an accomplishment even if there were only a dozen alive today because of his book.

    But, TBH, I was thinking in vaguer terms. More in the sense that French writers seem to have delved into the gutter earlier than English – as though that might be an indicator, in itself. But I have not really read the contemporary literature of neighboring countries.

    It is curious how London seems to have been more populous than Paris in the relevant timeframe, but perhaps that comparison is misleading as regards urbanization.

  76. @AaronB

    – Both the Shakyamuni and K´ung Fu-Tze (and the Thomas Gospel) admonished us to “give the words their meaning back” if we wanted peace.
    (Read: I´m both wary and not too sure of what you are saying 😀 )

    But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge:

    The Actually Working Class ™ i.e. the body of the quasispecies has to support two others, the dregs and the scum or IOW the antisocials and the rentiers.
    The Big Bad Nazis ™ subsumed these two under “arbeitsfreies Einkommen” and considered them an infestation of bloodsuckers.
    – The French Revolution was the first “modern” one, not a stirring against unbearable conditions like the numerous slave rebellions or peasant uprisings nor the Promethean Excelsior! (Gawd. How German) of other movements but the ressentiments of those who KNEW they were inferior channeled by those who should have known better – a “rabble rouser” is naught but a frustrated rentier.
    And this pattern of – for want of a better term – “Leninism” has been with us ever since.
    (Rosa Luxemburg saw the problem but it still got the better of her in the end)

    – So far, so race neutral; in theory, occupation of each spot is incidental.

    Both the Lumpenproletariat and the rabble rouser have a vital interest in destroying anything healthy – religion, family, gene pool, knowledge, what have you – , the former for ego-defense and the latter for self-preservation; the AWC has no say.

    Sir Karl Popper has taught us stochastic statements are not strictly falsifiable but may be considered scientific if based on observation, i.e. a few philosophers WITH foreskin (Locke and Diderot are suspect) prove nothing.

    Only in this – rather narrow – class sense do we object to Jews and their melanin-enhanced and/or pervert (to include feminist) bashi bozouks. Nothing personal.

    YOU-ARE-NOT-EQUAL. No one is – not even the humble one. Get over it already; take it like a man 😛

    Religion once did provide a framework for one´s place in life and what is and isn´t done …
    but I second Epigon on that for those who have et from the Tree this is no longer open-
    and scientism isn´t for everyone.
    Nature abhors a vacuum, and this is how we ended up with all kinds of snake oil.

    I too hope we get better, but it probably means the opposite 😀

    • Replies: @utu
  77. Dmitry says:
    @Toronto Russian

    Aren’t all Zola’s novels supposed to be obsessed with heredity, and structured into a series about influence of heredity on a single family?

    His works are supposed to be very entertaining to read despite this, though – although it does not seem like it would be a sensible plan (a project to illustrate his theory of effects of nature vs nurture on a family), for writing novels.

  78. EldnahYm says:

    Am I to understand that 1830 is just the arbitrary year this study’s data starts? The fertility decline seems to have started earlier.

    Anyway, most forms of decadence seem to start in France.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  79. Ian Smith says:
    @anonymous coward

    Look at before and after pictures of Johannesburg and compare them to the same kind of pictures of Detroit.

    • Replies: @yakushimaru
    , @songbird
  80. utu says:
    @AaronB

    Men like Voltaire, Rousseau, Diderot, Montesquie, David Hume… Their earliest victim was a promising Jewish scholar who might have done great things in the spiritual realm, Baruch Spinoza.

    Spinoza died in 1677. Montesquie was born in 1689. Voltair was born in 1694. Hume in 1711. Rousseau in 1712. Diderot in 1713.

    So how did their bad influence on Spinoza work. I am sure in the pre-Enlightenment Jewish science this is possible but perhaps you and your rabbi would care to explain it to us the victims of Enlightenment. And tell us, should we pay the reparation for Spinoza victimization and would you qualify to get a cut?

    • Replies: @yakushimaru
    , @AaronB
  81. @Mr. XYZ

    Remember the Neanderthals? The entire history of Homo whateverus is one wave of Africans overrun the previous waves of Africans!

  82. @utu

    Hey the gene of Enlightenment is hidden in the Royal Society (Voltaire would love to be a lap dog of Sir Isaac Newton!) and Royal Society ruined Spinoza!

  83. @Ian Smith

    I get your point. But, a fair comparison would include the black neighborhoods under apartheid vs the new Johannesburg. Otherwise you make it look as if people are simply being irrational.

  84. utu says:
    @nokangaroos

    Many interesting seminal thoughts. I would encourage you to expand.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  85. @AaronB

    an inane abstract God that inspires no one.

    inspired Einstein.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  86. @advancedatheist

    Apparently we would benefit now from creating our own version of the Encyclopédie and sending it to Sub-Saharan Africa to see if it cuts off the black birth explosion in that continent.

    It’s called iPhone. Other than, supposedly, bringing down the fertility rate, it has the side effect of bringing them to you (I think, according to Steve Sailer). 😀

  87. songbird says:
    @Ian Smith

    Joburg is different though. For one thing, on an economic basis, there is not necessarily anywhere better to go, in the country. That means that it has a certain built-in growth potential, even if it is run poorly on the political end.

    I don’t want to plug the movie Chappie because it is quite horrible, but I do think it made a bit more sense than the movie it copied, Robocop. I could see overseas companies making security investments in Joburg to pacify it.

    Not to get of topic, but these internal migration dynamics will start to affect Europe and France, as they have the US.

  88. @Anatoly Karlin

    To each person, one can assign a value of distance that is between the birth places of the two parents. Over the years, I’d imagine the average, per capita, distance would have increased given modern technology, eg in transportation and in socialization.

    What I mean to ask is: maybe there are virtual, ie non geograpically evident, communities of marriages.

    Otherwise, your thesis almost automatically leads to only geographically evident communities of reproduction.

  89. AaronB says:
    @utu

    You’re right, Spinoza was corrupted by an earlier generation of Europeans, and the general revival of Greek learning

    Influences according to wiki – Descartes, Stoics, Maimonides, Abraham ibn Ezra, Avicenna, Averroes,[8] Aristotle, Democritus, Lucretius, Epicurus, Niccolo Machiavelli, Thomas Hobbes, Giordano Bruno, Franciscus van den Enden, Menasseh Ben Israel

    Thanks for reminding me the rot started even earlier!

    When can you send me my check, utu?

  90. AaronB says:
    @yakushimaru

    Yes, and Bertrand Russell.

    The God of the philosophers.

  91. @Anatoly Karlin

    Quakers are an extremely small percentage of Pennsylvania’s population though. According to Wikipedia, there were 377,557 adult Quakers in 2017, with 49% living in Africa.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  92. @utu

    None of this is terribly original … 😀
    some tired old dead White dude named Friedrich Nietzsche laid it out in detail a few years ago, right down to the demographics – Jews, blacks and women – and their respective “arguments”.
    “Der Wille zur Macht” should be required reading in every high school; in the original, please –
    Newspeak by design does not lend itself to precise thought.

    On religion, I expand on Heinrich K. Erben, paleontologist and philosopher of science
    (I take some liberties):
    The core of religion – EVERY religion – is the Law. The Law is remarkably conformable throughout all modern (= post-neolithic /”Demetric phase” sensu Bachofen) religions; Erben boils it down to eleven commandments very similar to the Ten sans the first three. Everything but the Law is filler and stabilizer – brimborium (with Zoroastrism probably the purest form).
    – Which I take to mean there is no point in telling people:
    “Well, erm … our systems analysis department has concluded with better than 95% confidence that such-and-such behaviour is not conducive to civilized cohabitation and should therefore be refrained from.”,
    you have to tell them:
    “If you do such-and-such, Odhinn´s lightning will find you on the shitter.”

    In essence this is Kant´s (my apologies 😛 ) deduction of God as a moral necessity.
    So the question is not “Is there a God?” but rather “Does it make sense to believe in God?”.
    (erm, yes)
    It follows that Jewish disbelief in an afterlife is a major pillar in their collective psychopathy (in a non-adjudicating way).
    And the Marcionite-leaning bad Catholic in me recognizes (like prime noticer did) the refusal to accept one´s place as Original Sin: Wanting to be like God.
    (notwithstanding all the Luciferian/Promethean romanticism most of the time they are just a pain in the pooter)
    I got news for you, kid (figure of speech 😀 ): YOU ARE NOT GOD; and what´s more, this isn´t any of MY fault.

    Alphons Solé MD (“Die Menschenherde”, 1926) argued that because humans, unlike some insects, are not so biologically different as to be “born into place” they could never hope to form a “state” but instead waste three quarters of their energy jockeying for position in the herd.
    (reality may be somewhat less Hobbesian)
    This, IMHO, is the secret of East Asian superiority: They do not waste time and effort to fend off and/or accomodate the obviously unfit, being much closer to the state-as-meta-organism; calling them “ants” may have been meant derogatory, but is in effect a compliment. It is the Third Step of evolution.

    And all that was ruined for us by the French Revolution. Cui bono?

    [phew]

    Have at it 😛

  93. anonymous[221] • Disclaimer says:

    While you people keep rehashing hundreds of years old retard tier Jewish conspiracies and are still butthurt, of all things, about French revolution, science moves apace.

    https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/artificial-womb-in-gestation-ng-b881212374z

    Earlier this year, the team announced a major advancement and world-first — the ability of an artificial placenta-based life support platform to maintain extremely preterm lamb fetuses; equivalent to a 24-week human fetus.

    Remember, this is all on a shoestring budget. Imagine what could be achieved with Manhattan project-level effort by great world power, like great restored Russian Empire.

    Transhumanism, not feudalism is the future. Deal with it.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  94. @ImmortalRationalist

    But during their mid-18th century peak they were something like the 5th biggest religious group in the current US territories, which goes to show the longterm ramifications of even modestly earlier and modestly deeper fertility transitions.

  95. LondonBob says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    A lot left the sect too, even William Penn’s descendants went back to Anglicanism.

  96. LondonBob says:

    Seems that Penn had a whopping sixteen children.

  97. @Anatoly Karlin

    True, but there have also been several massive waves of immigration to Pennsylvania since that time. Overall, Quaker ancestry probably forms a small fraction of the gene pool of modern Pennsylvanians. For Pennsylvania to have an earlier breeder transition, it seems that you would have to assume that there was an extremely high rate of cultural diffusion in Pennsylvania from the Quakers to everyone else, such that the recent immigrants to Pennsylvania during the 1800s/1900s had an earlier fertility transition compared to the recent immigrants in other states.

    • Replies: @songbird
  98. @anonymous

    Nah. A lame word game doth not a scientific breakthrough make, and the target audience for this contraption are usually better off dead; “maintain for five days” – a vegetable?!

    They still can´t even control methylation in cloning – which is as routine as it gets – and you fantasize about THAT?

    Shit, they do not even make race horses by artsem – because it doesn´t work.
    (“coup de foudre”; it seems that for a really first-rate filly, the lady has to get hers too 😛

    Don´t get me started on the impossibility of raising the spawn – as a Russian you are familiar with what will go wrong (our primate studies are heart-rending enough).

    So until I see MUCH better, what´s so wrong about the old-fashioned way 😛 ?
    You cannot mechanize selection (do not underestimate) and socialization anyway.

    (Oh, and please try to watch Judge Dredd a little less often 😉 )

  99. songbird says:
    @ImmortalRationalist

    Interestingly, there were only about 1000 Amish in the US in 1800, whereas now some estimates give 250,000. Though that involves some later immigration from Germany.

    I wonder how many Shakers there were in 1800.

    Christian Scientists probably have an interesting curve too, of course they came along later. Used to know one.

  100. Sean says:

    According to From Louis XIV to Napoleon: The Fate of a Great Power by Professor Jeremy Black, France’s demographic decline relative to most other European countries dates from the early eighteenth century. There was a severe winter and widespread famine 1708–09 , with half the country’s livestock dying.

    Before Napoleon, France had been was mobilised for endless wars by Louis XIV, never more than in his open letter of 1709

    https://www.historynet.com/glory-sun-king.htm

    “Louis’ plea struck a resounding chord with his subjects, who immediately rallied around king and country. Gold cascaded into the coffers, while malnourished men from 16 to 60 rushed to enlist in an army the allies did not notice growing”

  101. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Epigon

    Religion and strict social codes “oppressed” women and provided framework for monogamous, sustainable societies based on large families. We are living in post-religion times and can’t reverse what has happened.

    We are actually living in an age of secular religion. In the past couple of centuries numerous secular religions have risen. The most destructive has been liberalism – an emphasis on individualism will corrode any society and liberalism guarantees below-replacement fertility.

    Since the chances of a revival of actual religion are close to zero we need to choose a better secular religion.

  102. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Epigon

    And who was behind these ideas and ideals that corrupted the unfortunate Jews?
    Every. Single. Time.

    Are you seriously trying to argue that the Enlightenment was a Jewish conspiracy?

    Don’t you think that maybe it’s just possible that some of the things that went wrong with European civilisation were our own fault? That they were flaws in our own civilisation?

    I know it’s comforting in a childish sort of way to try to blame someone else for our own failures but it’s not going to help us.

  103. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AaronB

    But European culture corrupted Jews, especially the Enlightenment and the ideals of the French Revolution. European Enlightenment culture also corrupted many Jews into becoming grotesque leftist SJW types.

    A bizarre theory but it might well contain a great deal of truth.

    The Reformation was a disaster for European civilisation and it prepared the ground for an even worse catastrophe, the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment led directly to further disaster – the French Revolution. The Enlightenment was the ultimate source of most of the evils we see around us today.

    And, as amazing as it may seem, the Reformation and the Enlightenment were self-inflicted injuries. To try to blame the Jews for the Enlightenment is obviously just silly. The first steps towards cultural suicide were taken by Europeans without any help from outsiders.

    And given that the Enlightenment was a catastrophe for Europeans it makes sense that it would have had an equally disastrous effect on Jews. Just as the Enlightenment undermined Christianity and the traditional beliefs and practices of Europeans it would also have undermined Judaism and traditional Jewish beliefs and practices.

    And in fact when you look at Jewish globalists and Jewish SJWs more often they’re not they’re Jews who have abandoned their Jewish spiritual and cultural heritages.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Malla
  104. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AaronB

    Thank God the return to Israel is healing Jews in both mind and body.

    I understand what you’re saying but is Israel all that healthy? Isn’t it mostly secular? Which means Israelis are rejecting their own Jewishness? And isn’t Israel rife with SJW madness like Pride Parades?

    The problem with the European mental illness that began with the Enlightenment is that its sufferers are determined to spread the illness throughout the entire world. The only way Israel could escape would be by cutting itself off completely from the major source of the cultural poison – the United States.

    Israel would have a better chance of long-term survival if it aligned itself with Russia and/or China rather than the United States.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Dmitry
  105. AaronB says:
    @dfordoom

    Israel is actually surprisingly healthy, and has been getting healthier, across a range of markers – but it the picture is not entirely rosy.

    The fertility rate has risen to above TFR even among secular Jews, which is remarkable, and the country seems to have shifted to a permanent right wing majority. The Left has been entirely discredited since the violence that accompanied the Oslo peace process.

    Religiously, a substantial proportion of Israeli Jews are at least somewhat religious, perhaps even the majority – and the overwhelming majority of Jews, including the secular, fast on Yom Kippur, light candles on Shabbat, and perform other key Jewish rituals. I actually view the performance of rituals as of seminal importance, almost more than beliefs.

    The majority of Jews have at least residual spiritual beliefs – true seculars are an extreme minority – and the majority also has strong nationalist beliefs.

    What’s more, the trend is towards becoming more religious. The old secular elite has been dislodged from their perch in the Army, and religious officers, once rare, are extremely common and sometimes a majority in the most elite combat units.

    In the last war in Gaza, the commander of one the largest infantry brigades – ironically, a Druze – broadcast a Jewish prayer as they went into battle, and explicitly connected their fighting to religious values and God (for which he was mildly criticized).

    Israel has demonstrated a robust willingness to defend its borders with violence, stem illegal African infiltration, and build effective walls, while shrugging off international condemnation.

    The Golan Heights has been recognized, America moved its embassy to Jerusalem, and there is talk of annexing the West Bank. Israelis have accepted they will always live by the sword, and no longer nurture vain dreams of peace.

    At the same time, the economy is high tech and doing well, and new infrastructure projects are underway.

    But there are negative trends as well – the LGTB parades, of course, the Supreme Court refusing to evict the illegal Africans already there, and others.

    But its hard not to be optimistic about the overall trajectory.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  106. AaronB says:
    @dfordoom

    I agree.

    I think there is a surprising underappreciation for the role of the Enlightenment in causing our troubles – many people think it began only after WW2!

    But I think any honest assessment must go back to the Enlightenment and the Reformation.

    And the point is not to “blame” whites – that’s just silly sparring on this site – the point is to clearly locate the origin of all this. Because how else will we deal with it if we don’t understand it?

    If anything, whites suffer from thus worse than Jews – so its not about blame. Its about accurate diagnosis, a necessary precursor to a solution.

    But silly distractions about Jews will help no one.

    • Replies: @Malla
  107. @AaronB

    Was everything about the Enlightment bad?

  108. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    I can’t respond to all the strange and bizarre comments, of everyone in this thread.

    However,

    David Hume

    It’s not representative of any particular social or political trend, and not responsible for any historical events before or after him.

    Instead, just someone who was more questioning and more intelligent, than average, unquestioning idiots, that try to avoid thinking about their world.

    Questions he asks are available to everyone, even (or especially) children. But most people are in a kind of waking sleep, so that people like Hume are for some reason very rare, and even when they try to write simply, their books are never popular with the average population.

  109. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    fertility rate has risen to above TFR even among secular

    This is useful for a country, but not an indication of “healthy”, as you and some others want to view it.

    Often the least healthy (e.g. Africa) societies have high birthrates, while the more healthy and productive ones (e.g. Singapore, Japan), have low birthrates.

    a Druze – broadcast a Jewish prayer as they went into battle

    Prayer does not help in battle. Investment in better equipment or training, on the other hand…

    has demonstrated a robust willingness to defend its borders with violence, stem illegal African infiltration,

    This is not true. African immigrants have not been deported.

    Israel does not even have parliamentary sovereignty. Supreme Court has final power in Israel.

    The elite and bourgeoisie in Israel is also often, very, very extreme (suicidal) liberal people. These are influential in universities, media, Supreme Court.

    Israel has policies like university affirmative action for Arab minorities, for example.

    economy is high tech and doing well, and new infrastructure projects are underway.

    Yes it’s exiting the middle income trap, now.

    It’s impressive for a country, where the majority of its Jewish population are brown third-world immigrants, or second-world immigrants.

    Country can have massive third-world immigration, as well all the wars, boycotts of neighbours, and still work past its middle income trap and will somehow join the first world.

    But there are negative trends as well – the LGTB parades,

    Then why not talk Jordan, with those criteria?

    Jordan does not have LGTB parades, it has high birthrates, and high religion.

    If these are your criteria, then Jordan is preferable to Israel.

    Actually, reason Israel is preferable, is that it is not completely third world – both culturally and economically -, and integrates some parts of the first world culture as well, especially in areas of more bourgeois European settlement in Israel.

  110. Dmitry says:
    @dfordoom

    In some sense sense, Israel are very like Western Europe on this level of cargo culting everything from Africa.

    Culturally, for example, Israel loves Christian African rapper, who arrived as an illegal immigrant, and is now their most popular pop star.

    Israel’s most popular celebrity now, is French-speaking Christian rapper, whose parents from Senegal.

    isn’t Israel rife with SJW madness like Pride Parades

    Even in working class cities, Israel have gay pride parades.

    (Although I’m not sure the problem here – Israel has highbirth rates, low AIDs rates, so this does not really correlate to anything interesting).

    Israel would have a better chance of long-term survival if it aligned itself with Russia and/or China rather than the United States.

    In terms of urbanism, Israeli cities are more similar to Russian cities.

    Also remember, American culture is quite positive in the business/economic sphere.

    In terms of social problems – America and Russia are on similar levels as each other. The countries with less social problems are Western Europe.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Malla
  111. anon[345] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Aaronbboy is an Anti-White troll who’s either a Kike or a Philosemite.

  112. Malla says:
    @Dmitry

    Wow, talk about Karma. It seems that in their deep hatred and jealousy of the White World, their desire to destroy all that is civilized in this world and their inversion of Logos, the so called “chosen people” will end up burning themselves up.

  113. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    “But silly distractions about Jews will help no one.”
    Jews are a big factor. Study about Cultural Marxism and the Frankfurt School. Also Sigmund Freud.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  114. Malla says:

    After the French Revolution, Feminism was pushed on the French population (in a shock therapy sort of way) just like how it was pushed on the Russians after the Russian revolution. The English Revolution, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution etc… were just a long line of linked events with similar agendas in mind. In Western Europe it had to be pushed using Cultural Marxism in a soft boil the frog sort of way because shock therapies would not work there.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  115. AaronB says:
    @Malla

    Jews are a symptom – not a factor.

    You can eliminate the symptom, but you won’t be touching the disease.

    • Replies: @Malla
  116. Malla says:
    @dfordoom

    The Enlightenment was the ultimate source of most of the evils we see around us today.

    Nope wrong. The Enlightenment was a blessing for most of the world. It were the twisted cancerous growths which came later like Marxism which causes most of the problems in the world. It is because of the Enlightenment, humanity could get rid of its brutish, superstitious past. It is due to the ideas of the enlightenment and its spread that women in India no longer get burned in the name of Sati.

    • Replies: @anon
  117. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    There was no reason for Western society of, say in the 60s to deteriorate into what is has today. There was no reason for that society to move towards 2nd or third wave feminism, the pushing of gender fluidity, mass immigration of black brown barbarian hordes, pushing of inter racial matings, gangsta rap etc… None of that was necessary.
    The earlier Victorian society with all its flaws was still quite a healthy society. A large part of the population went to Church, a part of the population were atheists, people were having kids way above replacement levels, promiscuity was controlled, women in general respected their husbands and wanted a family, children respected their elders, men were men (many were gentlemen but they were men), women were women (many of them were ladies). That was a post enlightenment society. It did not have the flaws of other pre enlightenment parts of the world like India with her caste system, burning women on Sati, superstitions etc… or the Islamic World (read Lord Cromer)
    There was no reason for Victorian era Western Society to deteriorate into degenerate Modern Art, gender fluidity, mass race mixing, gangsta rap. ugly graffiti etc… we see today. But Jews (not all Jews but many and a few non Jews) did play a leading role in bringing down that society to what it is today.
    Read about Sigmund Freud’s hatred for Rome (Western Civilization/ European Civilization, Catholic Church??) and his desire for Carthage (in this case representing the Phoenicians, Jews, Moloch worshipers) to destroy Rome. He lamented the defeat of Hannibal. He lived in the West but wanted to destroy the West. How typical of most Non Euros!! If the West was already destroying itself post Enlightenment all he had to do was lean back and relax but no, he want an active part in it.
    Sigmund Freud leads to Bernays, the Frankfurt School leads to Cultural Marxism.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @AaronB
  118. Malla says:
    @Malla

    Check out this movie (the first part of) ‘How Green Was My Valley’.
    This was a post enlightenment European society, in Wales, Great Britain.

    What do we see here? People having good families, having above replacement fertility. The women worked hard to take care of the house and respected the men, the young respected the elders. We see no non White and race mixing, not needed. We see no modern homo erotic art, no grafitis. No hip hop and gangsta raps with bitches and grills. No rock and roll. We see a community. They were happy with their traditional British food and beer, lack of curry did not cause any worry.The men are tough men but even if they are working class they have manners and gentlemanlyness you would never see in Yale today. If you behaved with such civilized manners in large parts of America today, people would call you gay and yet these men were tougher than the toughest men today. They were not ‘rebels without a cause’ but these gentlemanly White men would never give away their nation to outside immigrants, they would not tolerate Pakistani barbarians preying on their women. Today’s ‘rebel without a cause’/ anarchist White men run away from immigrants in White flights.

  119. AaronB says:
    @Malla

    You do not understand what I am saying.

    1) The reason Jews gained such cultural dominance was because Enlightenment ideas of social organization made them vulnerable.

    2) European writers, starting in the late 19th century, began to report a growing pessimism as religion waned.

    The growing sense of meaninglessness made Europeans begin to be apathetic and hate their own culture.

    The Enlightenment focus on physical well being displaced morality as the center of concern, leaving Europeans vulnerable to guilt.

    3) Post 60s ideas were logical developments of Enlightenment ideas – they are not new. They are just more extreme versions of Enlightenment ideas. Ideas, once adopted, don’t remain stagnant – they develop their implications.

    4) Jews were influenced by Enlightenment ideas, not vice versa. Every Jewish SJW is traceable back to the French philosophes, among others.

    5) For someone who professes to love Europe, you seem strangely ignorant about the growing pessimism and self-hate of white gentile writers beginning around the 19th century, with roots earlier.

    Have you heard of Romanticism? Of the Existentialists? Of fin de seicle France? Of Spengler?

    But I have found that those who profess to love Europe most, are often most ignorant of the actual development if it’s culture – its like they never really steeped themselves in the great European writers.

    6) You may think you are defending European culture, but you are merely preventing a cure.

    7) I would recommend a course of reading in the Great European writers beginning at the end of the 18th century to understand the growing pessimism and disillusion that accompanied the loss of religion and growth if science.

    8) Good luck.

    • Replies: @Malla
  120. AaronB says:

    What you are doing, is pointing to residual health in an earlier stage of corruption as evidence that nothing is wrong.

    One might as well point to the residual and increasingly scarce existence of healthy families in America today as evidence that the culture is not corrupt.

    Corruption is an ongoing process – not a static state reached all at once.

  121. AaronB says:

    Malla, your fundamental mistake is your failure to understand corruption as an ongoing process.

    You look at the 1950s, and see that things are worse today – so you do not see the development of ideas beyond their 1950s level as inevitable. Why couldn’t they just have been frozen in place in the 1950s?

    But by the 1950s, Enlightenment ideas had already developed far beyond their Enlightenment beginnings – so clearly, development is inherent in them.

    We do not get to choose at which moment to “freeze” the development – ideas have their own momentum – but especially ideas whose foundation is the casting off of traditional restraints and the use of experiment and reason. Development is at the very core of such ideas – and it gets more extreme as time passes.

    Further, you don’t understand “mixed stages” – a society in advanced stages of corruption may retain pockets of residual health, which pointing to would prove nothing.

    The root of your problem is thinking statically and not understanding the dynamic nature of history.

    • Replies: @Malla
  122. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    I am aware of what you are saying but I still do not think that the slide we see today was inevitable.

    The reason Jews gained such cultural dominance was because Enlightenment ideas of social organization made them vulnerable.

    How so?

    The Enlightenment focus on physical well being displaced morality as the center of concern, leaving Europeans vulnerable to guilt.

    Can’t physical well being and spirituality not go hand in hand in balance? My father is a devout Hindu and takes the religion very seriously. Yet he is a modern man running a manufacturing firm. He is happy as far as I can see.

    Post 60s ideas were logical developments of Enlightenment ideas – they are not new. They are just more extreme versions of Enlightenment ideas. Ideas, once adopted, don’t remain stagnant – they develop their implications.

    Then why was cultural Marxism needed? Why the trillions of $ spent on social engineering, Hollywood, MK Ultra, pop music? Why did the Frankfurt School come to the conclusion that Western Traditional culture at that time was an impediment to Communism? China with her deep traditional culture fell to Communism (followed by great cultural destruction) but Western Society just would not fall to materialist Communism.

    If the 50s society would have naturally slipped to what it is today there was no need for social engineering via the media and academia, was there? Why did they spend trillions of $ for something which would have happened naturally anyways.

    Jews were influenced by Enlightenment ideas, not vice versa. Every Jewish SJW is traceable back to the French philosophes, among others.

    Jews bastardized it in my opinion. That is because the Jewish mind (even if they are semi Europeans by blood) and the Aryan/ European mind especially the Northern European mind are very different from each other.

    I would recommend a course of reading in the Great European writers beginning at the end of the 18th century to understand the growing pessimism and disillusion that accompanied the loss of religion and growth if science.

    But was this representative of the masses? Most Europeans still went to Church on Sunday. Most were religious and believed in God.
    In India I see a lot of people who go to temples, have a deep veneration of Hindu Gods and are religious but still live a modern professional life running after success. They balance both of them seamlessly.

  123. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    We do not get to choose at which moment to “freeze” the development – ideas have their own momentum – but especially ideas whose foundation is the casting off of traditional restraints and the use of experiment and reason. Development is at the very core of such ideas – and it gets more extreme as time passes.

    I am still not totally convinced. I agree with you that ideas have a momentum in time towards an end. But people can cast off traditional restraints and have a more rational set of restraints. What we call traditional restraints vary from periods to periods, from cultures to cultures. Medieval Christian Europe had different traditional restraints than say Roman Europe or Viking Europe. Women in ancient Indian society had more freedoms than the Hindu society the Europeans came across in the 1600s. There was a concept called ‘swaymvar’ in ancient India where women would choose their own husband but this was discontinued later as women were choosing thugs over civilised men which eventually led to chaos and civilization suffered a lot as a result. Hence it was stopped.
    And you say about experiment and reason. But a lot of the beliefs of modernism are not reasonable. 2nd and 3rd wave feminism is not reasonable, because reason would say that women and men are not identical. Pushing racial mixing is not reasonable as pure race societies are not unreasonable. Multi racialism and mass migration are unreasonable as racial equality is unreasonable as shown by experiment and reason. Ghetto culture and rap are definitely not reasonable. Pushing modern art at the expense of traditional art as being more “democratic” is not reasonable. Destruction of the family is not reasonable as well. So why did Western and other modern societies not see the flaws of these beliefs and go back via the reason and experiment formula. Because it is not allowed to by the establishment with its media and academia.
    What we have today is not reason and experiment but a new kind of “traditional restraint”, a more destructive one. This modernism has its own beliefs, its own dogmas , its own heretics (Nazis, homophobes, islamo phobes, Racist, Holocaust denier etc..). We do not have experiment and reason, my friend, we have a new religion and that is the sad part. We could never really build a society on reason, we dumped one dogma for another, a more destructive one.

    Further, you don’t understand “mixed stages” – a society in advanced stages of corruption may retain pockets of residual health, which pointing to would prove nothing.

    Hmmm… you could be right.

    Why couldn’t they just have been frozen in place in the 1950s?

    But by the 1950s, Enlightenment ideas had already developed far beyond their Enlightenment beginnings – so clearly, development is inherent in them.

    If the decline was inevitable from the 50s to today then why did we need this? Why was trillions of $ spent on this?

    Personally I support the post enlightenment West as I fear a return to a pre British medieval India full of brutality, hardships and superstitions.

  124. anonymous[294] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    After the French Revolution, Feminism was pushed on the French population

    This is absolute bullshit.
    The Revolution was strictly masculine, with no place for women.
    Advocates of women rights fared very badly.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympe_de_Gouges
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theroigne_de_Mericourt

    One of the complaints of revolutionaries was that the old regime was controlled by women through intriques at royal court.

    Neither was Napoleon friend of women (or anyone else) rights.

    http://www.womeninworldhistory.com/TWR-07.html

    “The Wife is Obliged”
    The French Civil Code (Napoleonic Code) 1800-1820

    In post Revolution France, the ideas of female equality received a setback in a series of laws known as the Napoleonic Code. Through it, the legal right of men to control women was affirmed. Although most of the basic revolutionary gains – equality before the law, freedom of religion and the abolition of feudalism – remained, the Code ensured that married women in particular owed their husband obedience, and were forbidden from selling, giving, mortgaging or buying property.

    This backlash to women’s rights had consequences throughout Europe. In military campaigns, Napoleon carried the Code throughout Europe, where it served as a model to legislators in countries from Italy to Poland. Within France itself, the Code survived basically unaltered for more than 150 years. Only in 1965 did French wives get the right to work without their husband’s permission. Only in 1970 did husbands forfeit the rights that came with their status as head of the family. In many ways, the Code was the most enduring legacy of the French Revolution.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  125. Malla says:
    @anonymous

    Napoleon did not take power immediately after the revolution. There was a time gap in between the revolution and Napoleon’s rise in power when we see this feminism being dominant.

    From the book Man an Indictment by Anthony Ludovici , chapter 3,

    Turning now to France, we find the century which brought an end to the monarchy and culminated in the horrors of the Revolution was a century not only of feminine emancipation, but also of feminine rule. As early as 1723 Madame Palatine, writing to her son Philippe d’Orleans, said: “I have resolved not to interfere. Between ourselves France has, to her detriment, been too long governed by women [Madame de Maintenon was meant]. I wish my example to be useful to my son, that he may let no woman lead him.”
    But the century continued as it had begun. As de Goncourt said, “in the eighteenth-century woman is the principle that governs, the reason that directs, the voice that commands,” 2 and the power fell into the hands of one woman after another. First it was the Marquise de Prie, then it was Madame de Vintemille, followed by the Duchesse de Châteauroux, Madame de Pompadour, Madame du Barry, and finally Marie Antoinette. By the end of the century nemesis came, and when the confusion was at its highest, it was again the women who did most to accentuate its horrors. Even Mirabeau, who believed in sex equality, was revolted by what he saw; but it did not prevent Condorcet, the fanatic of democracy, from recommending votes for women.
    As Ostrogorski says, “having flung themselves into the Revolution with an ardour and an enthusiasm not devoid of grandeur at the outset, they [the women] soon lost all balance, intellectual and moral. The Feminists themselves were disgusted in the end, if not by their excesses, at least by the habit into which they fell, of exciting the people, of remonstrating with the men in office, and of promoting disorder in the streets.
    At last the Convention decreed (1793) the suppression of all female clubs and societies; subsequently it prohibited any public assembly of women; the female politician completely disappeared, and with the advent of Napoleon a fresh manly era was inaugurated.
    The important conclusions to be drawn from the above facts are — first, that there appears to be a close relation between the emancipation of, or the increase of power among, women, and the decline of a civilization; and, secondly, that the rise of female power does nothing and can do nothing to check or cure the vices in a civilization which are contributing to its downfall. Least of all can the rise of female power lead to the production of anything great by women, or bring about the only condition which can restore health to a people’s institutions, namely, a regeneration of its manhood. Greece and Rome never recovered, and France had the good fortune to be saved by a genius, who was a stranger in the nation, and whose virile lead alone restored the vigour of her male population.

    The laws you mentioned during the Napoleonic era were most probably a reaction to the feminist excesses during the revolution itself.

  126. Malla says:
    @anonymous

    One of the complaints of revolutionaries was that the old regime was controlled by women through intriques at royal court.

    This was common throughout the world during monarchies may it be the Ottoman or the Imperial Chinese Harem. Women in pre Colonial India had a lot of power behind the scenes and played politics in their zenanas (female quarters) both Hindu and Muslim. Indeed the famous marriage of the British East India Company resident in the Hyderabadi Nizam’s court James Achilles Kirkpatrick and the Hyderabadi Princess Khair-un-Nissa Begum was setup by women of the zenana (royal female quarters) for political reasons (one of them was to counter the influence of the French Company).
    But this does not mean the Ottoman Empire or Imperial China or pre British Raj India were feminist societies.

  127. anon[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    The Enlightenment was a blessing for most of the world.

    Yeah, where would we be without feminism, mass migration, Detroit, etc.

    t were the twisted cancerous growths which came later like Marxism which causes most of the problems in the world.

    You mean that men either built off of what the Enlightenment unleashed or followed its’ claims farther than their predecessors did.

    • Replies: @Malla
  128. Malla says:
    @anon

    Yeah, where would we be without feminism, mass migration, Detroit, etc

    Oh please, so we are stuck with a choice in between foot binding, Sati, witch burning, superstitions, caste system on one side and feminism, sluttyness, gender fluidity, mass migration and Detroit. I do not think so. Both are shitty choices.

    You mean that men either built off of what the Enlightenment unleashed or followed its’ claims farther than their predecessors did.

    Marxism was not the inevitable path post enlightenment.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - If you are new to my work, *start here*. If you liked this post, and want me to produce more such content, consider *donating*.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Anatoly Karlin Comments via RSS