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In my old post on the WQ, I noted that there are many more women in Russian nationalism than there are in the Alt Right in the US.

While the American Alt Right is pretty much entirely male (when I met up with Richard Spencer & Co. in 2016, there were just one or two women out of fifty people, as I recall), in an equivalent gathering of Russian nationalists they’d constitute perhaps 20%. Which is about reflective of default male/female interest in politics, anyway.

Anecdotal examples: In my IQ/dysgenics talk in Saint-Petersburg in November 2019 (peak optics), almost a third of the audience were women. Perhaps 20%-25% at the “Russian Meeting” (Русское Собрание) on the following day. Similar ratio at an IQ talk I did in Saint-Petersburg in 2017.

Curiously enough, Polish nationalists gave me similar demographic statistics. The large male-female gap in support for PiS(cuck)* regardless, they also constitute a quarter of Polish nationalists.

I assume this is on account of a number of factors:

(1) I assume that, as in Russia, this is a function of nationalism being less taboo than in the US. This is relevant since women are more conformist than men.

(2) Relatedly, women lean – by default – to conservatism. In the early 20th century, that was religious traditionalism. Today, in the West, “conservatism” is pozzed liberal globalism.

(3) You don’t really have any of the overt misogyny – as distinct from sex realism – that one often encounters in the Alt Right, e.g. the Daily Stormer.

It’s probably safe to say that all three of these feed into each other.

***

* All actual Polish nationalists vote for Konfederacja.

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Nationalism, Poland, Russia, Women 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. Znzn says:

    Stormfront was 40 percent female last time I checked a few years ago. And the Anglo altright has a yellow fever problem (see John Derbyshire), or a Jeb Bush problem (see Fred Reed). And Andrew Anglin is a suspected pedophile who has sex with probably underage Asian women.

    • Replies: @Svevlad
    , @Belarusian Dude
  3. Svevlad says:
    @Znzn

    Well the Anglos are becoming very weird.

    Can’t decide between race-based nationalism (which would make sense in America, but everywhere else not so much) or good ol’ normal nationalism (which won’t work in America because failed ethnogenesis), that allows racemixing

    • Replies: @Znzn
  4. @Znzn

    Maybe if you count the catfishers, trannies and role players then yeah 40%

  5. Znzn says:
    @Svevlad

    I also remember some soft Nat Austrian politician getting 45 percent of the female vote, his same escapes me. Kurz is that his name? And of course there is Marion Marechal. The old man also came in second in the 2002 French election, ahead of Lionel Jospin.

    • Replies: @A. Hipster
  6. songbird says:

    Give them a few coffee-colored friends or classmates, and they would probably think differently.

    • Replies: @Marshall Lentini
  7. melanf says:

    Relatedly, women lean – by default – to conservatism.

    Rather, they are more prone to fashionable (in their circles) ideology, and are much more vulnerable (than men) to the pressure of people around them.

    • Replies: @Dreadilk
  8. @Znzn

    Sebastian Kurz has got the looks which might appeal to the weaker sex.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
  9. melanf says:

    Anecdotal examples: In my IQ/dysgenics talk in Saint-Petersburg in November 2019 (peak optics), almost a third of the audience were women. Perhaps 20%-25% at the “Russian Meeting” (Русское Собрание) on the following day. Similar ratio at an IQ talk I did in Saint-Petersburg in 2017.

    Maybe the girls were just looking for Boyfriends?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Yevardian
  10. @melanf

    Amusing as the comment is, it does seem true to my experience that is part of it. By Western definitions, many(most?) EE women have extensive and overwhelming “internalized misogyny” and essentially have been brainwashed that they cannot see how they are oppressed in such settings.

    Kind of like the false consciousness of Marxist lore.

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
  11. utu says:

    The empowerment of women in V4 and Russia is because of men emasculation. Women had to step in to support their weakened, subjugated and often defeated men. In V4 countries 19th and 20th century nationalist movements were against the occupier (Prussian, Austrian, Russian) males who dominated them who took away power from the native men while in Soviet Russian men and women were equally powerless, w/o property and power and thus lacking the ability to take their lives in their own hands. This equalization of sexes through emasculation of men gives completely different flavor to society when compared to Anglo countries, countries of men who conquered the world. After WWII refugee women from Central Europe to UK, Canada, Australia and the US felt as if they were sent back to 19th century in their social roles. This is one of the reasons why there were not many takers for radical feminism in V4+Russia while in the Anglo countries feminism felt on a very fertile grounds. Also Catholicism and Orthodox religions empower women more by introducing a balancing cult of Virgin Mary and Mother of God, respectively.

  12. To be fair, Trump with his crowd of magamommies is the best representative of a more “normal” american nationalism and more comparable to the various SIP’s and Legas to its east. Based blacks and support for israel are embedded in american white interests whether more radical elements want to admit it or not.
    Comparatively, the alt-right is (was lol) closer to extremely far right sieg hailing skinheads that are representative of 10% of most nationalist movements.
    The whole WW2 wartime dictatorship aesthetic appeals to socially ostracized overly “masculinist” types, but hardly garners interest among females. Social acceptance notwithstanding, being a vet wife is a hard sell for most women.

    To be fair, the misogyny of the likes of Anglin was a reaction to post-Rockwell WN culture which wasn’t made up of the best genetic capital, and imbued itself with pop culture feminism. Most women that gravitate towards wanting to kill jews for the hitlerreich aren’t exactly stable either, which lead to a feedback loop of being exposed to the worst representatives of the female race.

    This isn’t to justify but put into perspective. American psychology in terms of race relations, gender relations etc. is hilariously fucked up to the point there isn’t a position one can take outside of radical SJW/Incelism that would make sense consistently.

  13. Dreadilk says:
    @melanf

    Also known as conservative.

    • Replies: @melanf
  14. Not Raul says:

    I’m not well-informed about recent Polish political developments. How is PiS a cuck party? They seem a lot more based than any major “conservative” party in any English-speaking country.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Iaxan
    , @Mitleser
  15. melanf says:
    @Dreadilk

    Rather, they (women) are more prone to fashionable (in their circles) ideology,

    Also known as conservative.

    Or SJWism, depend of country

  16. Mitleser says:
    @Not Raul

    Read this amren article.

    When I first started living in Poland a few years ago, I thought about writing an article on the contrast between this country and the West. I’d note Poland’s nearly homogeneous population and the conspicuous lack of the intellectual terrorism known as political correctness. I’d mention the virtual absence of feminist and LGBTQ propaganda and the mockery that meets it here. I never wrote that article, but many others did.

    Sadly, today I must write a different article. Things are not entirely as they seem. From the outside Poland may seem like a white fortress that rejects immigrants, ignores gays, and upholds traditional norms. Yet ever since the decisive victory of the Law and Justice party (PiS) in 2015, the cultural paradigm in Poland has been gradually shifting. Liberalism and cultural Marxism are on the offensive, while nationalism seems to be in retreat. This article is about changes that have taken place over the last few years. It should correct the misconception that Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe are somehow immune to Western degeneracy.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2018/11/a-frank-assessment-of-nationalism-in-poland/

    • Replies: @Dreadilk
  17. Znzn says:

    I made the observation that Giraldi and his posters should stop endless whining about Jews like some deranged broken record unless they could come up with a solution to the Jewish problem, because it does get frustrating to hear people whine about something all the time like a broken record without ever coming up with an answer, like what is the point?

    • Replies: @Pericles
  18. Dreadilk says:
    @Mitleser

    Our job in life is to fight and not give up. I read about half the article. I am observing same tendency in Russia(from afar I don’t live in Russia).

    There will be cycles and w.e cycle you find your self in you do that fight. In US it’s rebuilding. In Eastern Europe it’s stamping out globohomo.

  19. Iaxan says:
    @Not Raul

    PiS is a cuck party.
    PiS government increased Muslim and African immigration significantly. Way more than former left-liberal government.
    It deluged Poland with Ukrainians and Subcons, thus wages of low level employees were vastly reduced.
    It increased welfare and social care, but the benefits go over-proportionally to immigrants, gypsies and pathological class.
    Normal employees have it worse, as they have to pay vastly increased taxes to fund welfare and on the other hand have to compete for jobs with over 1 million new immigrants.
    My own employer slowly step by step is firing all polish low level workers and replacing them with Ukrainians and Subcons.

    In short PiS is a catholic neoliberal party. A coalition of anti-abortion Catholics and neoliberal big business, exactly like old Republican Party in USA.
    This party is hated by elites only for being catholic. The rest of PiS agenda is even worse than left-liberal opposition.

    The nationalist right party Konfederacja gets maximum 6-7% in ballots.

    • Agree: S, neutral
    • Replies: @Iaxan
    , @S
  20. There is usually a small majority of women in the Russian nationalist cult groups I have seen whether Radnoveri or IT professionals doing a Tolstoy and dressing up as peasants for a weekend. Dressing up does it. I recall a shop in St Petersburg selling peasant smocks. Very expensive. Politics is boring. Singing, dancing, reading poetry, reconstructing the past are other expressions of national identity with appeal to the feminine. Time to invent an exclusively Russian sport on the lines of gaelic football.

  21. Iaxan says:
    @Iaxan

    Statistics regarding new residences in EU countries:

    Regarding Poland
    – Poland takes more immigrants than Germany, France or UK. Altough Poland has half as many citizens
    – majority of immigrants are from Ukraine. Will they assimilate to successful polish model or will they recreate Little Corrupt Ukraines ?
    So far I have noticed significant reduction of customer service.
    – proportionally as many Belarussian are coming as Ukrainians. So Belarus will be as depopulated as Ukraine ?
    – Lots of Russians are from Caucasus, including Chechens
    – Turkey + India supplied 15 000 men. Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Middle East, Africa another 20 000 men. So Poland is gonna have 500 000+ people of colour in 10 years. They concentrate in few biggest cities. Warsaw is gonna be over 10% people of colour in 10 years.
    Starting from less then 1% when PiS won election.
    But Poland issues more and more visas to people of colour every year.

    Poland is doomed.

  22. @Philip Owen

    Turns out all the alt right really needed was better sewing, rippling muscles and an artistically gifted caste of men prone to hot naked saunas and intense manly snuggles.

  23. Yevardian says:
    @melanf

    That can applied to almost any social setting though, and anyway, can you imagine any well-adjusted woman in the West looking for a boyfriend at a nationalist meetup?

    • LOL: 216
  24. @A. Hipster

    Kurz looks plainly inbred.

    Romanians used to vote for a Le Pen figure in the nineties. But exporting one tenth of the countrys people to Italy and another tenth to Spain really put a end to it. After Vadim’s defeats and death, all his lieutenants deserted to the Social–Democrats, the erstwhile leftover of the local Communists. Their transplant made the resulting combination a confusing anti–German, pro-American, anti-gay, anti-worker rights, pro-welfare a-la-carte party.

    The most important people in the current Social-Democrat party are Gabriela Firea and Olguta Vasilescu, mayors of Bucharest and Craiova. Only Vasilescu worked for Vadim, but both compete for largest cross on a necklace and largest relic-worshipping gatherings. Lots of conformist shecows have taken to wearing crosses and worshiping relics.

  25. Dan Hayes says:
    @Philip Owen

    Through no fault of its own, Gaelic Football is too close to world-wide soccer/football. Better yet is Gaelic Hurley, much more sui generis.

  26. S says:
    @Iaxan

    It deluged Poland with Ukrainians and Subcons, thus wages of low level employees were vastly reduced.

    Am sorry to hear that’s the situation in Poland. Yes, ‘immigration’ is the bio-weapon of choice to break down nations, a perverse form of ‘people power’.

    The United States is the model for the rest of the world in this.

    Divide and conquer, divide and rule.

    ‘..the immigrants usually serve three main functions: cheap labor to replace native groups, settlement in the ‘frontier’ (periphery), and control over the natives and their land. These dynamics generally result in the maintenance of hegemony..’

    https://www.academia.edu/2116622/Between_urban_and_national_45_Political_mobilization_among_46_Mizrahim_in_Israel_s_development_4847_towns_

  27. S says:

    (3) You don’t really have any of the overt misogyny – as distinct from sex realism – that one often encounters in the Alt Right, e.g. the Daily Stormer.

    Let’s hope for the sake of the Russian people that remains so. The misogyny stuff is terribly destructive.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  28. @S

    Can’t be anywhere near as destructive as the 50 years of below replacement fertility — which nationalists have done fuckall to reverse and show no propensity for reversing.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
    , @216
    , @S
  29. @JohnPlywood

    Reversing feminist laws and politics is basically a must to increase birth rates and make society functional like it was before the 20th century, or even the pre-WW2 period at least in many cases.

    Russians would be well advised to undo their terrible divorce laws that cuck their men in a similar fashion to western countries. Of course, there’s much more to be done, but that is just a start in one of many important areas.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  30. The anger at white females is not the cause,but the result,of the womens stupidity.
    I remember,years ago,when I first started reading Stormfront. Any criticism of the beloved white women would be met by a wave of “good men” screeching in outrage. Not anymore.
    Andy Anglin is a bit like our Whiskey. He doesn’t pull punches.
    Try this:Go to dailystormer.name and watch the video of the poor guy who spoke out to the Mexican.
    Look at that white haired old witch,as well as the other dumb,vicious,nasty harpies.
    I dont know what the answer is but please stop this crazy misandry.

  31. Dmitry says:

    This just similar terminology, which is referring to different demographics. This is comparing nerds in Saint-Petersburg, who attend talks about psychometrics by an intellectual futurist and avant blogger which hipsters and cognoscenti followed, with American white nationalists, and then asking why they might be different by demographic composition.

    Similar people to those American white nationalists have been plenty in Russia, and their appearance will match accurately between countries – the main difference is while in America they are often living freely, in Russia they are often prosecuted and in prison, although usually with a lot of justification (after many violent happenings).

    The more extreme ones, had a love of violently beating people who look like Karlin that they can find in a street, and preferably shoot it on a camera, and upload it a file hosting site, where shocked netizens used to download it and play it with Windows Media Player as one of the initiations of discovering the internet.

    Moreover, the equivalent groups in Russia had been directly influenced with American aesthetics and by films like American History X. So of course, this is the one to compare the American groups to.

    as in Russia, this is a function of nationalism being less taboo than in the US. This is relevant since women are more conformist than men.

    (2) Relatedly, women lean – by default – to conservatism. In the early 20th century, that was religious traditionalism. Today, in the West, “conservatism” is pozzed liberal globalism.

    (3) You don’t really have any of the overt misogyny – as distinct from sex realism – that one often encounters in the Alt Right, e.g. the Daily Stormer.

    The equivalent people to those Americans, that are in Russia, are this “style” of nationalists.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Disagree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  32. Dmitry says:
    @Yevardian

    well-adjusted woman in the West looking for a boyfriend at a nationalist meetup

    Lol so assumedly the girlfriend in American History was an accurate stereotype of the kind of girls we’ll meet there….

  33. Rosie says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Reversing feminist laws and politics is basically a must to increase birth rates and make society functional like it was before the 20th century, or even the pre-WW2 period at least in many cases.

    I would ask, for the 999th time, what evidence there is to show that women are to blame for low birth rates, but I have since realized that was never the point.

    Men don’t want to share power with women, not in the home, not inside the home.

    Not in the rain
    Not on a train
    Not in the dark
    Not in a park
    Neither here, nor there
    Nor anywhere
    The end.

  34. @Philip Owen

    Time to invent an exclusively Russian sport on the lines of gaelic football.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapta_(game)

  35. @Rosie

    Men don’t want to share power with women

    It’s the other way around. Women don’t want men to share power with women. Cucked men lead to sexually unsatisfied women, and the women know it.

    Men themselves are lazy and would gladly offload the nuisance of ‘power’ on someone else, except for the fact that it leads to a life of inceldom.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @Rosie
  36. 216 says: • Website
    @JohnPlywood

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_Israel

    If elites wanted as such, I think the demographics would shift to what we could find favorable.

    Mr. Adelson is willing to expend large resources for his people, and he’s one of many. We don’t really have anyone like that.

  37. 216 says: • Website

    “Femnats” contra “tradthots”.

    I suspect there are cultural reasons related to individualism that explain why the US-Anglo Right is even more of a sausagefest than the Continental Right.

    The joke in politics is that the lone black person at a GOP meeting is the keynote speaker. I suspect a variant where the lone woman in fringe politics is over-promoted. This leads to suspicions, usually correct, that said woman is exploitative and has only joined for the pursuit of clout and lucre.

    At a meta level, it speaks bad that men in fringe politics prioritize physical appearance too much, there are few “Rachel Maddow” types neither here nor there.

    Do other countries have their own equivalents to Tomi Lahren?

    • Replies: @Znzn
    , @Znzn
  38. neutral says:

    that one often encounters in the Alt Right, e.g. the Daily Stormer.

    It is well known that Anglin hates females, but besides him who else is there? This white nationalists hating women is a narrative that jews like to peddle but it is a lie, the types that are obsessed with feminism all the time are the alt light types, not alt righters.

  39. neutral says:
    @Rosie

    what evidence there is to show that women are to blame for low birth rates,

    The fact that women are the ones with wombs, and it is they that ultimately decide whether to have children or not.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @another anon
  40. Daniel.I says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    By Western definitions up is down, black is white and 2+2=5

    So who gives a shit ?

  41. Znzn says:
    @216

    How much of the anti-female sentiment is due to cyrpto-Jews in the altright poisoning the well?

    • Agree: Rosie
    • Replies: @216
  42. @neutral

    what evidence there is to show that women are to blame for low birth rates,

    Where are the masses of men who desperately want to have huge flocks of children and are stopped by cruel and heartless women who are telling them NO?

    The fact that women are the ones with wombs, and it is they that ultimately decide whether to have children or not.

    Good to hear that you are supporting independent single mothers who do not need any man to have children!

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @neutral
    , @JohnPlywood
  43. Anonloc says:
    @Rosie

    Men don’t want to share power with Men.

    Women aren’t to blame for low birth rates as it’s men who send them to school.
    http://blogs.worldbank.org/health/female-education-and-childbearing-closer-look-data

    The reason you’re a single mother is because you unironically express the belief that women are people.

    Just another deranged white woman headed for the dumpster of extinction. Good riddance,

    • Replies: @Rosie
  44. Rosie says:
    @anonymous coward

    It’s the other way around. Women don’t want men to share power with women.

    Self-serving armchair bullsh!t to justify male douchebaggery.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  45. Rosie says:
    @Anonloc

    The reason you’re a single mother…

    Oh look, I’ve gotten a promotion from cat lady to single mother!

  46. Rosie says:
    @another anon

    Good to hear that you are supporting independent single mothers who do not need any man to have children!

    Or maybe he wants us to “forget” to take our pills and have an “accident.”

    • Troll: neutral
  47. neutral says:
    @another anon

    Good to hear that you are supporting independent single mothers who do not need any man to have children!

    I said no such thing, all you are doing is confirming that is is women and not men that determine TFR.

  48. Rahan says:

    Andrew Anglin is a very powerful gateway for many youths, and also adults, so even just for that, his outrageous culture-jamming “written stand-up routine” should be applauded, IMO.

    Yes, he anchors the radical edges of the debate with crazy talk about modern white women being degenerate parasites, and Jews being degenerate parasites, and gays being degenerate parasites, and socialists being degenerate parasites, and so on, but nonetheless, he’s done far more to plant the seed of doubt in the random reader, and has produced a far stronger ripple effect, than say Counter Currents, or the Occidental Review, or the Renegade Tribune, and so on.

    His anchoring into taboo radical territories actually DOES make the sane center viable again. It’s working. Without such anchoring, the sane center counts as “ebil fascism”, because without such anchoring, it’s the GloboHomo crowd that gets to dictate what’s what.

    I know people whom Anglin’s stuff has shocked out of the baizuo hypnosis, and remade into normal nationalist conservatives. They do not wear “day of the lampshade” t-shirts, and do not babble how women should be kept in cages–they are in fact the actual sane “non-racist yet race-realist” pro-family values, anti-drag queen hour conservatives, but only got there, only escaped the GloboHomo brainwashing, after first being exposed to Mr. Anglin’s shocking work.

    • Replies: @Daniel.I
    , @Korenchkin
  49. @another anon

    Where are the masses of men who desperately want to have huge flocks of children and are stopped by cruel and heartless women who are telling them NO?

    Who said anything about “huge flocks of children?”

    The US birthrate was at a pathetic 3.5 children per woman rate in 1960.

    If it had stayed there, we would not be having this conversation right now.

    Why did women lower it to 1.8 (a truly subhuman rate) and keep it there for 4 decades?

    Where is your excuse? You were already performing extremely poorly to begin with.
    Give me one reason not to zap you and replace you with Mongoloid women. And keep in mind my finger is on the button as you’re typing.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @another anon
  50. Pericles says:
    @Znzn

    Not just “a” solution, very valued critiquer.

  51. Daniel.I says:
    @Rahan

    modern white women being degenerate parasites, and Jews being degenerate parasites, and gays being degenerate parasites, and socialists being degenerate parasites

    All of this is 100% accurate.

    • Agree: Marshall Lentini
    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  52. Time for the important question
    Are they cute enough to be put on propaganda posters?

  53. @Rahan

    Andrew Anglin is a very powerful gateway for many youths, and also adults

    Fucking what
    He’s entertaining to us, sure, but for the average normie he seems like a cartoon badguy

    Did anyone here start out on the stormer/stormfront? I don’t think so, more likely it was some random forum about cars or video games or other stupid shit before descending into the rabbit hole or you encountered cultural enrichment in real life and searched out likeminded people on the internet

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @CharAznable
  54. @Korenchkin

    Gamersgate here. So hooray misogyny!

    [MORE]

    Not entirely true but one shouldn’t let candor get in the way of a good quip.

  55. Mark G. says:

    The misogyny of the Alt Right is partly a reaction to the misandry of the radical feminist left. This might be twenty per cent of males and twenty per cent of females. When discussing things like the decline in birthrates or marriage rates common ground needs to be found between the remaining males and females.

    Before starting with the finger pointing, we might want to consider that part of this might not be the fault of either men or women. There may be fewer children now because, whereas children used to be an asset who could help around the farm or be put out to work at an early age, they are now an expensive consumer good. You might start by eliminating credentialism that requires parents to spend large amounts of money to put them through college in order to get a job. We also might think about some ways we can bring back some of the factory jobs that went overseas so men can support a family. We also might consider with 300 million people in the U.S. compared to 180 million 50 years ago and a declining natural resource base we may not need large numbers of children.

    Some things that aren’t going to work is anything perceived as being unfair by one gender. Men advocating legally restricting women from pursuing education or careers or having affirmative action to reserve high paying jobs for men will prevent political alliances between men and women. Women advocating affirmative action for women or an extensive welfare state that transfers wealth from men to women will also prevent a political alliance.

    There used to be more political unity when more men and women were married to each other. Until the nineteen sixties, men and women voted Republican at about the same rate. A gap started appearing as greater numbers of people remained single. With a two party system and two genders, you run the risk of one party turning into the female party and the other party turning into the male party.

  56. @Rosie

    Self-serving armchair bullsh!t to justify male douchebaggery.

    You talk like a lesbian and your shit’s all retarded.

    Real women in the real world are sexually attracted to male douchebaggery. Sorry, but it is what it is.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  57. Znzn says:
    @Mark G.

    Well you can always be Jeff Stryker.

  58. In my experience of nat. forums in the early 2000s there was always a good % representation of women around the world (& yes, mostly real ones not men playing at it). Sure there were the usual ‘men are superior!’ types of discussion now and then but they didn’t have the nastier, more antagonistic edge that came up later (the kind of attitude the word ‘incel’ captures).

    Whatever stuff PUA/MGTOW may be right about, the crossover from that ‘sphere didn’t do the anglophone nats any good in this regard in the 2010s. A noticable increase in ppl incapable of anything but bitter emotional rage about women (often when badly disguised as supposedly highbrow ‘superior male logical thought’ on the subject) which in turn repels women even more… a nice feedback loop…

  59. Rosie says:
    @JohnPlywood

    Give me one reason not to zap you and replace you with Mongoloid women. And keep in mind my finger is on the button as you’re typing.

    The race traitor shows himself, again.

  60. Rosie says:
    @anonymous coward

    Real women in the real world are sexually attracted to male douchebaggery. Sorry, but it is what it is.

    And real men in the real world are mysteriously most loyal to the women who treat them like dogshit. Attracted to the bitchiest women, they complain that women are all bitches.

    How to get rid of a guy: offer a lifetime of devotion.

    Sorry, but it is what it is.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  61. Rosie says:
    @Mark G.

    The misogyny of the Alt Right is partly a reaction to the misandry of the radical feminist left.

    I dunno Mark. The misogyny on the dissident right is worse than feminist misandry by an order of magnitude. You simply do not hear feminists talking about disenfranchising men or barring them from education and paid employment, let alone reducing them to chattel.

    If I wanted to make arguments for such, I could think of some. What would a curfew for men do for the crime rate?

    Otherwise, you make very important points.

    Women advocating affirmative action for women or an extensive welfare state that transfers wealth from men to women will also prevent a political alliance.

    As I have said before, I am every bit as adamant about maintaining welfare programs that disproportionately benefit men (worker’s comp, the penitentiary system) as I am about those that disproportionately benefit women.

    • Replies: @Anonloc
    , @Mark G.
  62. @JohnPlywood

    Where is your excuse? You were already performing extremely poorly to begin with.Give me one reason not to zap you and replace you with Mongoloid women.

    Wrong continent. If you want skilled breeders, only place left is Africa.

    And keep in mind my finger is on the button as you’re typing.

    LOL. Stop misgendering, and show the evidence that men want loads of children and selfish women are keeping them back.

  63. @Mark G.

    Before starting with the finger pointing, we might want to consider that part of this might not be the fault of either men or women. There may be fewer children now because, whereas children used to be an asset who could help around the farm or be put out to work at an early age, they are now an expensive consumer good.

    Exactly. It is economic and technological problem. If you want to blame someone, blame inventors of farm machinery.

    The solution to technological problem is technological, not bleating about some long defunct “moral values”.

    Our host understands it.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/paper-review-artificial-wombs/

    Anatoly Karlin knows how to make Russian Galactic Empire great again.
    Why cannot the commenters?

  64. @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    Based blacks and support for israel are embedded in american white interests whether more radical elements want to admit it or not.

    What?

  65. @Iaxan

    How many Ukrainian immigrants to Poland are ethnically Slavic and how many are (((“Ukrainians”)))?

  66. @Yevardian

    can you imagine any well-adjusted woman in the West looking for a boyfriend at a nationalist meetup?

    The problem with your word choice is the assumption that modern Western women are well-adjusted.

    If you are a feminist woman who believes in abortion, contraception, and general shitlibbery, then you are not well-adjusted.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @216
  67. Anonloc says:
    @Rosie

    Dum cumslut shows up again to guard a topic about women.

    Women are weak, women are property.
    Feminists literally abort boy fetuses.

    Good riddance, white genocide will fix this problem of feminist empowered thots.

    • Replies: @another anon
    , @Rosie
  68. @Anonloc

    Anonloc
    No Recent Commenting History

    No surprise.

  69. @Rosie

    And real men in the real world are mysteriously most loyal to the women who treat them like dogshit. Attracted to the bitchiest women, they complain that women are all bitches.

    Yes, and?

    How to get rid of a guy: offer a lifetime of devotion.

    You assume that bitchy women aren’t devoted, even though it’s usually the opposite.

    Are you married?

    What would you do to your husband if he decided to share his, um, power with the Beckys and Karens at his workplace?

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Rosie
  70. @Rosie

    Amazing that women getting a taste of men’s “power” (like the power to participate in sterile 9-5 corporate drudgery, as opposed to the responsibiliyy to maintain a household and raise children -which is obviously slavery) just happened to coincide with fertility dropping off a cliff.

    I know it’s a very difficult concept, but man working for a decent wage + wife dedicated to making a family home = greater fertility. Man + Woman working for depressed wage full time and outsourcing child-rearing to public schools and other strangers = lesser fertility.

    Feminists droning about wanting “power” is pathetic, a woman’s “power” is poison not only to any organization unfortunate enough to be inflicted with her leadership, but also her own posterity

    • Replies: @Rosie
  71. Rosie says:
    @Anonloc

    Feminists literally abort boy fetuses.

    One minute you lunatics are telling me about “incels” who can’t get a girlfriend because boys outnumber girls. The next minute you’re telling me “feminists” (read: White women who don’t hate themselves) abort boy fetuses.

    • Troll: Owen C.
  72. Rosie says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    I know it’s a very difficult concept, but man working for a decent wage + wife dedicated to making a family home = greater fertility. Man + Woman working for depressed wage full time and outsourcing child-rearing to public schools and other strangers = lesser fertility.

    Feminists droning about wanting “power” is pathetic, a woman’s “power” is poison not only to any organization unfortunate enough to be inflicted with her leadership, but also her own posterity

    Men have done such a great job running corporate America that men can’t support a SAHM anymore and the Chinese manufacture our military supplies. Well done!

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  73. Rosie says:
    @anonymous coward

    Are you married?

    Yes.

    What would you do to your husband if he decided to share his, um, power with the Beckys and Karens at his workplace?

    That depends on whether it was a habit or an isolated incident. Your point?

  74. Mark G. says:
    @Rosie

    You mention the prison system. Men in prison and women on welfare are both a problem. Both of these groups are disproportionately inner city blacks. So instead of a female problem this may be more of a black underclass problem. Men in prison currently can’t vote. We might consider extending this policy to women on welfare. I don’t think women in general voting is harmful and not letting them vote seems unfair. The Alt Right types who advocate repealing female suffrage are losing potential female allies.

    Women are more security oriented so completely abolishing welfare would be unappealing to them, even the ones who don’t currently need it. I don’t think completely abolishing all welfare would be a good idea for practical reasons. We currently feed and shelter prisoners. I can imagine a situation where all welfare was abolished and hungry people purposely committed crimes so they can be thrown in jail and get a meal. You want to avoid setting up these kind of incentives. You could at the least have homeless shelters set up where people can get “three hots and a cot”. You would want to have security guards there in case physically abused women are staying there. It is not uncommon for male abusers to go after women who try to leave them. No female should have to worry about her safety in such a situation.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  75. Rosie says:
    @Mark G.

    We might consider extending this policy to women on welfare.

    I would have no great objection to that, depending on how you define welfare. I think only like half the population pays net taxes when all is said and done. Would public schooling be included? Medicare?

  76. @Daniel.I

    Archaic white women were degenerate parasites, too.

    • Replies: @Daniel.I
  77. @Mark G.

    Until the nineteen sixties, men and women voted Republican at about the same rate

    That’s not really saying anything. Women had only been voting legally for 40 years, and since almost 20 years of that were spent under Democrats Roosevelt and Truman, it’s more accurate to say they voted Republican for like twenty years or so. And the Republicans of that era were pretty much as useless as the modern kind.

    Voting doesn’t mean shit. Women have erased the family unit from the face of the first world and rendered our countries in to ghost towns.

  78. @Rosie

    Welfare is defined as having produced fewer than 8 kids.

  79. @Rosie

    Medicare is by and large a pre-paid (by taxpayers on some sort of formal economy payroll) “health” insurance policy for retirees. Scrutinize it all you like, but it is not “welfare” in the general sense of the word. Public schooling is worse than welfare or prison.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  80. @Rosie

    You’re putting words in someone else’s mouth, Rosie.

    TheTotallyAnonymous said we have to reverse “feminist laws and politics.” Emphasis mine.

    Then you come along and ask him what evidence there is to show for women causing certain problems.

    But he didn’t mention women. He mentioned feminists. Not all feminists are women. All feminists are cancerous, though, regardless of sex.

    Feminism, which is “the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men,” is one of the most insidious and retarded concepts ever devised by evil and corrupt humans.

    I had the great pleasure recently of dating a girl who openly describes herself as “anti-feminist.” It was a great time. She didn’t put words in my mouth either.

    In any case, child-rearing is a two way street, so it’s almost childishly inane to argue about who was more responsible, man or woman, for our demographic disaster. But OF COURSE it was we men who let you women drive yourselves nuts. We permitted contraception, permitted abortion, permitted our women going into the work force to drive down our wages and make our women inwardly miserable, and so on. In a word, we cucked – we cucked to the lies about “liberation.” We gave away our patriarchy.

  81. Owen C. says:
    @Rosie

    We’re not against women being nationalists. We’re against feminists, crypto- and otherwise, destroying male safe spaces.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    , @Rosie
  82. @Rosie

    Elizabeth Warren gets this. Once the banks loaned money based on the income of both members of the couple, the old model of the family was doomed.

    • Agree: Rosie
  83. Of course men share the blame for the low birthrates and diminished family formation. They bought into the idea that marriage and raising children were nothing but burdens. So much of pop culture revolves around men agonizing about forming commitments and leaving behind endless sexual variety. A key aspect of the classic film Rear Window has Jimmy Stewart debating whether he should settle down with Grace Kelly. Is that even a question that needs to be asked? Grace Kelly was one of the most beautiful women in the world.

    • Replies: @CharAznable
    , @JohnPlywood
  84. @Owen C.

    I’m against women being nationalists. What kind of bulldyke woman wants to be a “nationalist”?

  85. @Korenchkin

    4chan -> TDS (in its earliest days) -> TOO -> Unz

    I always took TDS with a huge spoon of salt as I found TDS/AA via 4chan. AA reaches young millennials and zoomers. We like extreme humor.

  86. Rosie says:
    @Jim bob Lassiter

    Scrutinize it all you like, but it is not “welfare” in the general sense of the word.

    Nonsense. These oldsters are taking out way more than they ever put in. I’m ok with that. I believe we have a duty to take care of the elderly, but I’m not going to pretend it’s something other than what it is.

    • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
  87. Rosie says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    We permitted contraception, permitted abortion, permitted our women going into the work force to drive down our wages and make our women inwardly miserable, and so on.

    John Burns for forced prostitution.

  88. @MalePaleStale

    This is an antiquated view, and completely out-of-touch with the experience of young millennial and boomer men. Maybe you boomers didn’t want to get married. We, the younger generations, do, but our options are some whore who’s had sex with 5-10x the amount of people we’ve had(even the conservative MAGA girls) , or someone like Rosie here, who should know better, who just wants to scream, “EVERYTHING IS MEN’S FAULT! MEN WONT SHARE POWER! MY PROFESSORS TAUGHT ME THIS!” at anyone with a Y chromosome. We have no options.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  89. Rosie says:
    @Owen C.

    We’re not against women being nationalists. We’re against feminists, crypto- and otherwise, destroying male safe spaces.

    As I have said before, as soon as the manosphere gets out of White nationalism, I will get out of your “safe male spaces.”

    You are not entitled to bash White women and then deny us any opportunity to defend ourselves. That you believe otherwise indicates lack of character on your part.

    I notice your body John Plywood has gone ahead and admitted that he can’t stand women. He can’t stand the “typical” kind and he can’t stand the atypical kind, either.

    • Troll: Owen C.
    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  90. @MalePaleStale

    Wtf? No she was not. She looked like a man.

  91. @Rosie

    I’d rather marry a leftist woman. It’s no great big secret that leftist women are more feminine and chaste. “Right wing” (especially “trad”) women are strange tomboys with enough mileage on ’em that they invaraibly smell like burnt rubber no matter where they go. Appalling.

    I’ve also noticed that, in some mysterious way, SJW women are more pro-white than “conservative” infiltrator dykes.

    • Troll: Alexander Turok
  92. Rosie says:
    @CharAznable

    Maybe you boomers didn’t want to get married. We, the younger generations, do

    Millennial men are all about getting married, so long as:

    1. They get everything their way, and
    2. They remain free to walk away and marry someone else whenever they damned well please. (Any continuing financial obligation to their spouse and children being considered “divorce rape.”)

    These guys are so keen to get married, some of them even demand that women sign “prenuptial agreements” that effectively nullify the marriage. So you have one piece of paper saying you’re married (I do), and then another piece of paper saying “well no, not really” (I don’t).

    It’s beyond ridiculous.

    “EVERYTHING IS MEN’S FAULT! MEN WONT SHARE POWER! MY PROFESSORS TAUGHT ME THIS!

    Manosphere Pig: It’s all women’s fault.

    Rosie: No, it isn’t, because men did X, Y, and Z.

    Manosphere Pig: Why is this hysterical man-eating feminist saying it’s all men’s fault?

    • Replies: @Wubba Lubba Dub Dub
    , @216
  93. @Rosie

    They remain free to walk away and marry someone else whenever they damned well please. (Any continuing financial obligation to their spouse and children being considered “divorce rape.”)

    These guys are so keen to get married, some of them even demand that women sign “prenuptial agreements” that effectively nullify the marriage. So you have one piece of paper saying you’re married (I do), and then another piece of paper saying “well no, not really” (I don’t).

    The thing we call “divorce rape” happens regardless of who ended the marriage. That’s the problem. That’s what we’re complaining about. If the man leaves the woman, he gets punished. And if the woman leaves the man, he gets punished. My preferred solution is to start enforcing the marriage contract. This way, both men and women will know that if their spouse wants to leave them and shack up with some “thug” or “bitch,” he or she will leave the housekey and the kids behind. The next best thing is making dissolution of the marraige actually mean dissolution of the marriage which is what prenuptual agreements try to do.(And don’t do particularly well thanks to the refusal of courts to enforce them.) Andrew Anglin style misogyny is unproductive. So is interpreting all attacks on feminism as attacks on women.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Rosie
  94. 216 says: • Website
    @Znzn

    Not much, afiak

    A lot of people in these movements have more than a few screws loose, often coming from a background of divorced parents. They’ve also been part of a society where young women have been the biggest drivers behind the “Awokening”.

    In particular, it doesn’t say much about the confidence in the “leaders” when a certain R. Sp. was a notorious womanizer.

  95. 216 says: • Website
    @Rosie

    These guys are so keen to get married, some of them even demand that women sign “prenuptial agreements” that effectively nullify the marriage.

    This is bad and you should feel bad for writing it.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  96. 216 says: • Website
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    The problem with your word choice is the assumption that modern Western women are well-adjusted.

    The disparity in psychological issues and medication thereof, is indicative.

  97. Rosie says:
    @Wubba Lubba Dub Dub

    If the man leaves the woman, he gets punished. And if the woman leaves the man, he gets punished. My preferred solution is to start enforcing the marriage contract. This way, both men and women will know that if their spouse wants to leave them and shack up with some “thug” or “bitch,” he or she will leave the housekey and the kids behind.

    I pretty much agree with this, except that the question isn’t only who left whom, but also why the leaver did the leaving. Adultery? Gambling? Drugs? If so, then the innocent spouse ought to get the “housekey and the kids.”

  98. Rosie says:
    @216

    This is bad and you should feel bad for writing it.

    You’re right. I spoke too broadly. A prenup may be legitimate in certain, very narrow circumstances.

    https://www.archsa.org/mpprenup

    • Replies: @216
  99. Rosie says:
    @Wubba Lubba Dub Dub

    Andrew Anglin style misogyny is unproductive. So is interpreting all attacks on feminism as attacks on women.

    OK, but the problem is that attacks on feminism may very well be attacks on women.

    It all depends on what one means by the term “feminism”. I gather that feminism is very broadly defined in the dissident right, and that this definition of feminism does indeed include me, even though I’m a very happy homemaker and homeschooling mother of six.

    Some of the misogynists call me “feminist” and some call me “cryptofeminist.” It hardly matters to me either way. It’s just a word. When men start screeching about “feminism,” I generally assume they have the broad definition in mind unless they say otherwise. And they almost never say otherwise.

    • Replies: @jay
  100. 216 says: • Website
    @Rosie

    My understanding was that you are an evangelical Protestant, I’m not familiar with any practice within Protestant denominations that forbids a prenuptial agreement as tantamount to “nullification” of the marriage.

    From the perspective of family law, I’m not aware to what extent such agreements can “nullify” a marriage on what basis? Taxes?

    The “nullification” of a marriage is called “divorce”.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  101. dfordoom says: • Website

    women lean – by default – to conservatism.

    I’d be inclined to believe that women (for sound biological reasons) lean by default to stability and security. There was a time when political conservatism seemed to offer stability and security. Not any more. Not in the Anglosphere anyway. In the Anglosphere political conservatism is associated with radical economic experiments, the destruction of manufacturing industry, the destruction of job security, unaffordable housing and predatory capitalism. Not very attractive to women.

    The alt-right/dissident right is associated with clowns who want a race war, neo-nazis, virulent racists, woman-haters and creepy incels. I’m not suggesting that such nutjobs and losers make up the whole of the alt-right but they make up a not insignificant segment of it. Hardly surprising that women want nothing to do with such a movement.

    For women in the Anglosphere today the only viable political option would seem to be the liberal Left. Women are just not going to support political zealots who talk about destroying the welfare state or advocate a racial bloodbath.

  102. @Rosie

    No. Empowering white knighting Judges to undermine the rightful authority of a husband is degenerate. Woman like men fighting with each other over them: love to see judge emasculate husband that got boring. Allowing this infighting (to cater to Ros(t)ies degenerate whims) is wrong.

    “But my husband is a gambling loser.” Ros(t)ie must touch. ABUSE!!!

    On second thought, I am against losers having valuable woman (They can have Ros(t)ie and sex dolls). Society must be set up so strong valuable men of character can take the wives of weak men and white knights. Maybe positive sum games set up to facilitate this conquest.

    Of course all jokes ;). What you should be worrying about is that western woman are becoming ugly. Rostie was coined by zoomers. Zoomer men not as enchanted by woman as previous gens cause woman not as enchanting. Now willing to fuck rosties but not much else. Trend continues. Using the state to facilitate mass transfer of resources under this paradigm is an unstable equilibrium.

    Rosties should worry more about being feminine and less about the attention of men trying to figure out politics. Back to … actually the kitchen is not not interesting or time consuming enough anymore. Where do you want to be sent?

    • Replies: @Rosie
  103. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    We gave away our patriarchy.

    ‘The patriarchy’ was a system created by women, for women, and with the goal of making women happy.

    If men were left to their own devices, they’d create a system where 20% of the males monopolize 80% of the women in commitment-free harems, without stable family formation or any responsibility beyond keeping beta males out.

    (In other words, pretty much the system we have now.)

    • Disagree: The Wild Geese Howard
    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  104. @anonymous coward

    ‘The patriarchy’ was a system created by women, for women, and with the goal of making women happy.

    Citation needed.

  105. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I had the great pleasure recently of dating a girl who openly describes herself as “anti-feminist.” It was a great time. She didn’t put words in my mouth either.

    Did you marry her then? You don’t say you’re dating for the sake of dating?

  106. Rosie says:
    @216

    My understanding was that you are an evangelical Protestant, I’m not familiar with any practice within Protestant denominations that forbids a prenuptial agreement as tantamount to “nullification” of the marriage.

    You’re correct, but the Catholic teachings on marriage are superior to the Protestant position.

    The “nullification” of a marriage is called “divorce”.

    Semantics. These agreements have the purpose and effect of replacing the standard marriage contract with the parties’ own, watered-down version. This is a fact. If you don’t like the term “nullifies,” call it whatever you want.

  107. Rosie says:
    @MatriarchiesAlwaysConqueredAndTWeakMenKilled UNGGG

    No. Empowering white knighting Judges to undermine the rightful authority of a husband is degenerate.

    That’s what this is all about.

    Manosphere guys: Give me all the power in the relationship or I’ll take my ball and go home.

  108. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Rosie

    Men don’t want to share power with women, not in the home, not inside the home.

    I think you’ve been spending too much time on Unz Review. You’re in danger of thinking that the men here are typical of the male sex. This is a fringe website that attracts life’s bitter losers and they deal with their resentments by hating women, hating Jews or hating blacks. Or, more usually, by hating women, Jews and blacks. Judging all men by dissident right men is like judging all women by the angry blue-haired lesbians on university campuses.

  109. neutral says:

    I think you’ve been spending too much time on Unz Review.

    I think you are too idiotic to understand the irony of your idiocy.

    • Troll: Rosie
  110. Znzn says:
    @216

    What do you mean due to individualism?

    • Replies: @216
  111. Anonloc says:
    @Rosie

    You’re literally an evangelical christcuck huh?

    White genocide and christian genocide will fix your mental illness and what you’ve passed on to your offspring, dw.

  112. fnn says:

    I just noticed an infamous anti-feminist site (that’s the current emphasis) is now registered in Russia:
    https://dailystormer.su/

    • Replies: @Rosie
  113. Rosie says:
    @fnn

    just noticed an infamous anti-feminist site (that’s the current emphasis)

    Good. He needs to be honest about the fact that he doesn’t care about White survival and stop pretending otherwise.

    Anonloc here can barely conceal his hatred of White people.

  114. Rosie says:
    @Anonloc

    Like almost all of these raving misogynists, Anonloc has trouble facing facts that don’t comport with his biases.

    The more often a person goes to church, the more likely they are to express strong feelings of White solidarity.

    • Replies: @Anonloc
    , @JohnPlywood
  115. @Dmitry

    This sounds smart, but it is incorrect.

    I am very aware of self-selection bias in general (even if I do say so myself) and am very careful to make appropriate adjustments.

    Example: An NPI conference (no wignats/Nazi cosplayers there – audience are clean-shaven, besuited men; speakers are people like Jared Taylor, Peter Brimelow, etc., not degenerates like Matthew Heimbach) would be more K-selected than some Russian NazBol rally. But even the latter will have many more chicks.

    The people in your photos are marginal Neo-Nazi types and have extremely few women in either the US or Russia.

    • Replies: @S
    , @Dmitry
  116. Daniel.I says:
    @JohnPlywood

    Quite likely, but I’m pretty sure men weren’t putting them on a pedestal back then.

    • Agree: JohnPlywood
    • Replies: @Rosie
  117. S says:
    @JohnPlywood

    No doubt more could have been done, and should be done.

    The problem with a blanket statement such as yours though is that it doesn’t take into account that most European peoples had already lost by and large what little, albeit imperfect, sovereignty they may have had left prior to the fifty year point (1970) you mention, their organic natural elites either killed off, imprisoned, exiled, or safely (often forcibly) brainwashed into believing and heavily investing in the go nowhere faux Capitalist/Communist Hegelian dialectic of the past two centuries, ie the Big Lie, all of which tends towards greatly suppressing physical and cultural identity, and naturally fertility as well.

    You chop off the head, and the body politic will wither and die in due course.

    WWI and WW II, and the events surrounding the two cataclysms, has played no small role in creating the present situation which European peoples have yet to recover from.

    Karlin has well documented here what happened to Russia’s organic elites due to Soviet Communism..ie in general their systematic destruction.

    Poland, too, well illustrates this point.

    [And what I say here is said with it being entirely understood why Slavs have something of a problem regarding Germany’s WWII era actions regarding them, and that it’s entirely possible the Soviet Union itself was indeed planning to invade Europe sometime in latter 1941 or 1942. Neither premise is mutually exclusive of the other]

    Believing UK guarantees of support in regards to it’s relationship with National Socialist Germany, at the start of September, 1939, Poland would be invaded by Germany in the west and shortly afterwards by the Communist Soviet Union in the east, yet despite the guarantees, no significant British assistance would be readily forthcoming.

    Then, mid-war on April 13, 1943, Germany announced to the world the discovery of the mass graves at Katyn (outside Smolensk, Russia) of thousands of Polish officers and intelligencia executed by the Soviet NKVD in 1940.

    When confronted about Katyn the Soviets accused Germany of the massacre. The Polish Prime Minister in exile, Władysław Sikorski, would have none of it.

    When Sikorski refused to accept the Soviet explanation and requested an investigation by the International Red Cross on April 16, the Soviets accused the government-in-exile of cooperating with Nazi Germany and broke off diplomatic relations on April 25.

    The April 25, 1943 break in diplomatic relations between the Soviet Union and the London based Polish government in exile, and the associated Polish agitation regarding Katyn, was causing some real problems between the US/UK and their ally the Soviet Union.

    Conveniently for the Soviet Union and their US/UK allies, though not so happily for Poland, for whom ostensibly WWII had been started, Władysław Sikorski’s B-24 Liberator would crash immediately upon take off at Gibraltor on July 4, 1943, killing Sikorski, and everyone else on board, excepting the pilot.

    Providing there’s some truth that the crash may not have been an accident, was Władysław Sikorski Katyn’s last victim?


    Immediately after the crash, a Polish officer who had witnessed the event from the airstrip began sobbing quietly and repeating: “This is the end of Poland. This is the end of Poland.” (“To Polska stracona!”)

    General Sikorski’s death marked a turning point for Polish influence amongst the Anglo-American allies. No Pole after him would have much sway with the Allied politicians. Sikorski had been the most prestigious leader of the Polish exiles and his death was a severe setback for the Polish cause.

    After the Soviets had broken off diplomatic relations with Sikorski’s government in April 1943, in May and June Stalin had recalled several Soviet ambassadors for “consultations”: Maxim Litvinov from Washington, Fyodor Gusev from Montreal, and Ivan Maisky from London.

    While Churchill had been publicly supportive of Sikorski’s government, reminding Stalin of his pact with Nazi Germany in 1939 and their joint attack on Poland, in secret consultations with Roosevelt he admitted that some concessions would have to be made by Poland to appease the powerful Soviets.

    The Polish–Soviet crisis was beginning to threaten cooperation between the western Allies and the Soviet Union at a time when the Poles’ importance to the western Allies, essential in the first years of the war, was beginning to fade with the entry into the conflict of the military and industrial giants, the Soviet Union and the United States.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Władysław_Sikorski

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  118. Rosie says:
    @Daniel.I

    Quite likely, but I’m pretty sure men weren’t putting them on a pedestal back then.

    Hardly. They were busy continuously trying to replenish the population as the men showed their gratitude by assiduously killing each other off one generation after another.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata

  119. Anonloc says:
    @Rosie

    White just means Western European minus celts.

    Meds & Germans in other words.

    They need to go.


    You need to drop this Jewish mentality of wailing that you did nothing wrong and that oh vey they hate us for our freedoms..

    You’ve tried to inflict feminism and negrophilia on the entire globe.

    YOU are the primary caretakers, funders, and backers of globohomo.

    Striking a blow at you is no different than striking one directly at Wahhabism, Global Zionism or an assortment of other cornucopia of homosexual degenerate ideologies made by

    Non R1A people.


    Ever wondered why Euro whites are reviled everywhere they go while NO ONE has a negative impression of Slavs?

    Boomers go to church and their idea of white solidarity is showing solidarity at their daughter’s mixed race wedding.

    The communist East is far more ‘pro-white’ than anything the USA ever came up with.

  120. Daniel.I says:
    @Rosie

    Eugenics ain’t easy, baby doll

  121. Anonloc says:
    @Rosie

    You’re some barbarian protestant stop trying to claim Hellenic tradition when you were eating dogs at that point.

    That play is also more about how women couldn’t stand being away from dick more than anything else.

    Women cause most wars because they can’t stand men who back down.
    O well, one or two elections and you’ll be in Gulags. :shrug:

    Fkn protocuck slut.


    You’ve gone from claiming to be a single mother of 3 to a housewife raising 6.
    I guess Jewish women can lie since the nose is already long!

    • Agree: JohnPlywood
    • Replies: @Rosie
  122. @S

    Britain applied a successful blockade to German ports from the beginning of the war. Britain had no army of consequence in 1939 and even less of an airforce. The army logistics were motorized and equipment designs were best in class but deployed in negligible or zero numbers. The Poles were aware of this.

    You do not mention France. France had a large and well equipped army.

    • Replies: @S
  123. S says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    In regards to ‘the Russian meeting’ video you linked to, and for the sake of non-Russian speakers, what was the subject matter of the speakers?

    The youth and obvious general good health of the attendees, men and women, was impressive.

  124. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    marginal Neo-Nazi types

    This current marginality of fascist hooligans in terms of visibility, is not some endogenous or natural phenomenon. It is because the government around 15 years suppressed them, prosecuted their groups, deleted their forums, deletes their websites, puts them as extremist organizations, and current media suppresses the memory of when they were quite noisy and visible in the internet and also creating a lot of news stories (15 years ago), and partly now projects it to Ukraine. And when we say government – this is serious authorities like the FSB which destroyed those groups.

    When a government crushes and destroys hooligans, in nationalism. Then, gentle middle class hipsters, that like reading history books, are free to take up the space – and they appear more sympathetic.

    A comparison of nonextreme or moderate nationalism in Russia, to America might be to quite normal areas of American politics. Afterall, Trump was elected to President by promising to stop “Mexican rapists” – his rhetoric was like 1990s Zhirinovsky.

    On the other hand, a comparison of the hard American white nationalism, is to extreme nationalist groups which in Russia were suppressed for around 15 years already.

    have extremely few women in either the US or Russia.

    I don’t know anything about gender ratio.

    But in terms of the hooligan stuff in general – you can teach your girlfriend to copy your hobbies.

  125. @Rosie

    No Rosie, not allowing white knighting Judges to undermine the rightful authority of a husband is not giving men “all the power in the relationship”.

    That you jumped to this conclusion demonstrates the spiritual sickness possessing most feminists.

    By the very nature of relationships, any person you are in a relationship will have power over you. This is natural, wholesome, and good. It is understood preverbally by dogs and 3 year olds. You can see this in how they explore the relationship: pushing boundries or asking for things. When they understand the relationship and their power within it they will feel secure.

    Where men are often autisticly things focused. Spiritually healthy feminine women exist within these interpersonal spaces — exploring and mastering them from a young age.

    Your feminism makes you ugly. Your husband can smell it on you even if he cant articulate it. You have traded interpersonal power within your relationship to fight for state power for other ugly feminists who couldn’t win husbands or husbands who loved them.

  126. @dfordoom

    I think people project themselves onto the rest of the “dissident right”. Angry racist boomers see angry racist boomers. Edgy discord zoomers speaking truths their parents are too stupid to see see edgy discord zoomers speaking truths their parents are too stupid to see. The /fitizen diaspora sees fit chads. Incels see Incels. Maybe some patriarchs looking for how to design a more wholesome functional society for their kids see a tool. Rosie sees attention.

    All of us see your counter-signaling to impress an angry feminist as pathetic.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  127. Rosie says:
    @Anonloc

    You’ve gone from claiming to be a single mother of 3

    You must have me confused with someone else.

  128. @Rosie

    According to this fakeass chart, being divorced or making 0-30 thousand dollars a year are even more potent predictors of “feelings of white solidarity” than church attendence.

    Which makes sense, as the probable creator of this chart (Rosie) has accomplished both of those things.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  129. Rosie says:
    @MatriarchiesAlwaysConqueredAndTWeakMenKilled UNGGG

    All of us see your counter-signaling to impress an angry feminist as pathetic.

    From the dissident right dictionary:

    Counter-signaling:

    Saying something that misogynists don’t like, usually involves pushing back against manosphere b.s.

    Instead of making a substantive argument in defense of his position, the misogynist accuses his interlocutor of “countersignaling.”

    And yes, I am angry, about the fact that I have to come here and babysit when I have other things I’d much rather be doing.

    • Replies: @Anonloc
  130. Rosie says:
    @JohnPlywood

    According to this fakeass chart,

    Lol. You have given me way too much credit. I make no secret of the fact that I’m not tech savvy. If you were a regular here, you’d know I couldn’t produce that chart if my life depended on it.

    https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-demography-of-the-alt-right

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  131. Anonloc says:
    @Rosie

    no one is fucking forcing you to come here.
    I could probably go back through your post history and prove your bs about marriage & # of kids but if you believe feminism you believe all your lies.

    You’re a liberal thot.
    You basically decry simple gender roles and ask for citations

    LOL you’re the alt-lite version of can I speak to your manager.

    Change your name to Karen LOL


    White cultural systems are maladaptive to whites.
    White genocide meaning destruction of white cultural systems and their advocates such as you is actually the only way that whites will survive & have a healthy tfr.

    Therefore, I’m a white nationalist because white lib degens like you must be destroyed.

    Hippity Hoppity Womyn are Property.

    • Replies: @216
  132. Anonloc says:

    https://relampagofurioso.com/2018/03/12/the-gender-tax-gap-men-pay-200-more-taxes-than-women/

    Women are always going to net financial drain on society.
    They will always cost you, are you going to get a family out of it or just worthless twitch sluts?

    Women consume $150,000 more than they pay in taxes EACH.

    Just in taxes not including other stuff.

    Feminism is the root cause of the immigrant problem AND all others.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  133. Rosie says:
    @Anonloc

    Women consume $150,000 more than they pay in taxes EACH.

    Why don’t women have more kids and stay home with them?

    Why don’t women go out and work harder and pay their fair share of taxes?

    As always, haters gonna hate, no matter what we do.

    Anyway, my husband works. I stay home with the kids. Who pays taxes? Both of us. His paycheck is marital property. Do your statistics account for my unpaid labor?

    It’s the same old chauvinist crap from you people. One minute, you insist that our very life as a civilization depends on women’s work in the home. Then, when it suits you, you turn around and claim that women’s work isn’t important and doesn’t count.

    Feminism is the root cause of the immigrant problem AND all others

    So you say. I wonder if greedy men wouldn’t be demanding even more cheap, non-white labor but for women in the workforce.

    • Replies: @Anonloc
  134. S says:
    @Philip Owen

    Britain had no army of consequence in 1939 and even less of an airforce. The army logistics were motorized and equipment designs were best in class but deployed in negligible or zero numbers.

    I cannot speak for what the Polish may or may not have known, but if British arms were that weak in the late 1930’s, perhaps the British shouldn’t have been making promises to others they knew they couldn’t keep.

    As for France, effectively a satellite state of the British, she would be occupied herself within about ten months of the start of the war, after a short lived ‘invasion’ of a few miles into German territory.

    The blockade was nice but didn’t rescue Poland.

    Having said that I see the Polish as having been cynically used by the British for their own dreams of consolidating a truly world encompassing empire to:

    1) Provide a plausable reason to enter the war against Germany

    2) Push Germany eastward and closer to the Soviet border, where ideally (from the British view) Germany and the Soviet Union would ultimately go to war. Afterwards, a severely depleted/weakened Germany and Russia would both be made that much easier for US/UK future conquest.

    That the Polish, sandwiched dangerously between Germany and Russia, would lose their freedom and much else besides due to these shenanigans, I don’t think the British/US elites and hangers on involved in the scheme much particularly cared about.

    Relatedly, W T Stead, a close associate of Cecil Rhodes, in his 1901 book The Americanization of the World on pg 10, 11, and 12, calculated that the US and UK between them within the ‘special relationship’ had three times the wealth and economic resources of the combined French, Russian, and German empires.

    In other words, the US/UK in 1900 with their newly formed ‘special relationship’ had already largely conquered the Earth. And I say this within the context of the manufactured Hegelian Dialectic of Capitalist vs Communist in place since 1776 and 1789, London historically operating as something like a central clearing house for both Capitalist and Communist global revolution.

    There’s no particular reason to doubt Stead’s calculations, and he wasn’t the only one making them at the time. The subtitles on the pages of the first chapter tell their own story in reference to the US and UK, ie ‘the supreme power’, ‘world conquerers’, and the ‘decree of destiny’.

    The world wars, including the apparent coming WWIII, I see as US/UK consolidation of power wars.

    Neither the US and UK are what they once were though, and things might not go quite as originally intended…best laid plans of mice and man and all that.

    Guido Preparata wrote ‘Conjuring Hitler’ linked below and he has experienced a lot of grief for doing so as it doesn’t make the so called ‘progressives’ look particularly good. Worth the time to read.

    https://archive.org/details/ConjuringHitler/mode/2up

    https://archive.org/details/americanizationo01stea/page/n11/mode/2up

  135. 216 says: • Website
    @Znzn

    Consider a case study of the two most significant Anglo tradthots.

    1) Tomi Lahren

    A woman of no greater intelligence than the typical US bachelor’s graduate, who attended an out-of-state (more expensive) “party school” where she publicly posted about doing drugs and being a slut. She was handed her own show on a second-rate conservative TV network, on the basis of being hot. Her scripted/unscripted rants became quite popular 2014-16 during the Black Lives Matter riots. Such was her stature that she was referred to on the left as “Beckzilla” the most extreme variant of the slur “Becky” targeting white women.

    She jumped ship to a higher paycheck, Glenn Beck; but was fired when an interviewer got her off script and she admitted to being in favor of abortion. She sued Beck and was somehow not laughed out of court as usually occurs during a termination lawsuit in the US.

    Her main audience is Baby Boomers that slobber over the security state, during her edgy days she had an additional following of young women. Nowadays the latter audience is gone, and she’s no longer “Beckzilla” but a punching bag for BlackTwitter. Her current employers at Fox have kept her on a much tighter leash.

    All that said, she’s arguably the most prominent “Alt Righter” in the US, as her initial work was almost pure white identity politics. She’s done only a small fraction of the work that say, Fuentes, has done; but had an impact several orders of magnitude larger.

    2) Lauren Southern

    According to certain gossip, her turn to politics was started when her South Asian boyfriend dumped her in high school. Intially involved with a minor political party in college, she drew a lot of attention to herself by attacking trans demonstrations. She was hired by Ezra Levant at Rebel Media, along with lesser known tradthot Faith Goldy and decidedly un-trad Laura Loomer. Ezra Levant fired her in 2017, which was officially described as “going independent”, but according to Milo Y was actually because she refused to record pro-Israel propaganda.

    After being fired, she was part of a boat organized by Martin Sellner of Austria that was going to interfere with NGO people smuggling in the Mediterranean. As a stunt, she fired a flare gun at an NGO boat. This was gold for the far-left, which got her six-figure Patreon income taken away on the basis that she was a “violent terrorist”.

    She produced two documentaries of moderate quality, neither of which would have been received as well had a man been the producer. For the first documentary, there was a feud with Faith Goldy, that some implied was linked to a love triangle. The second documentary was where it really got bad, as her crew were gay leftists that subverted the script into being “pro-migrant” on what was supposed to be an anti-immigration documentary. The two gays also embezzled tens of thousands of dollars, and leaked information to HopeNotHate in the UK. She may have been complicit.

    Unlike the first tradthot, Lauren’s main audience was Millennial men, which fit well with her background in cosplay. After the shenanigans above were exposed by Milo Y, she disappeared from politics, and apparently got married and had a child. Hopefully she leaves behind the toxic celebrity life for good.

    When I speak of “individualism”, I mean a reluctance to accept hierarchy and a sense that one’s own opinions have validity no matter how unfounded or ill informed. The tradthot archetype above chafed under even the minimal oversight provided by their possibly lovestruck superiors. Often, even a minor tradthot can find considerable income via e-begging. Rarely, sometimes even never, are these kind of women called out for their shockingly unintelligent positions. Book reading is minimal, while gut feelings and the current boyfriend’s opinions are considerably more important.

  136. 216 says: • Website
    @Anonloc

    You’re a liberal thot.
    You basically decry simple gender roles and ask for citations
    LOL you’re the alt-lite version of can I speak to your manager.
    Change your name to Karen LOL

    This is bad and you should feel bad for posting it.

  137. @Rosie

    “IF”studies

    Kinda like

    IFS is a fake news/fake “study” source.

    • Replies: @Owen C.
  138. Owen C. says:
    @JohnPlywood

    Rosie seems like the pseudo-WN feminist version of Fran Taubman, a hasbara who spams Gilad Atzmon’s articles on here with pro-Israeli propaganda.

  139. Anonloc says:
    @Rosie

    No, I’m saying women have been a net financial drain since the dawn of time and valuing them through an economic mindset is akin to calling your mother a prostitute.

    Motherhood must be supported even against the cries of brainwashed, feminist thots like you.

    I’m saying the Sword is the Holiest form of the Goddess and all whose fate was kind contemplated upon it.

    • Troll: 216
    • Replies: @Rosie
  140. Rosie says:
    @Anonloc

    No, I’m saying women have been a net financial drain since the dawn of time and valuing them through an economic mindset is akin to calling your mother a prostitute.

    I assume what you are implying here is that women shouldn’t be able to work and earn our own living. The problem is that this is a classic whole-to-part fallacy. My doctor is a woman. I’m sure she pays more taxes than she consumes. Without her, we would have another Pajeet doctor in her place.

    Another problem with your reasoning is that you exclude women’s reproductive labor when considering our contribution to society. Our economic contribution being less in part because of this, you’re then able to say we’re a “drain.”

    • Replies: @Anonloc
  141. Anonloc says:
    @Rosie

    No, women have always worked & made valuable contributions.

    Trying to put a price on reproductive ‘labor’ or motherhood is something which deserves nuclear fire.

    What do you think is the solution?


    Over-regulating things such that women are only allowed in ‘feminine’ professions is gay.
    I’ve seen that female education is the greatest predictor of fertility.

    Making women legal ward of their father/husband works in theory but without also restoring the robust communities that kept them in check, all you get is weirdo megalomaniacs who abuse their spouse because they never got female attention their whole life.

    I didn’t say the problem of low fertility, high cost of family formation, and a host of others including over-empowered sluts & a culture which coddles them is easily solvable.
    We only need a Tfr of 3 & a ban on muslim/african to fix 90% of this issue.

    There are many small regs like zoning laws for example which keep the cost of family-friendly housing up.
    The soviets had higher fertility, in part due to extensive childcard which is one path to take.

    I think that it’s better to let the nerds work out the details and merely work towards a cultural change (via holding the sword) in which motherhood is sacred & cherished as the highest duty.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @dfordoom
  142. @Rosie

    And whose fault is it for deliberate lousy actuarial work from the inception of SS and subsequent comingling of SS funds with general funds ?

  143. @Rosie

    This bullshit about Israeli fertility uses ICBS statistics which include contested territories (like Golan Heights) of Israel living in truly third world conditions. The CIA listed the fertility for Israel (actual Israel) as 2.6 in 2017 and even that includes a lot of shit regions of Israel.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

    Israel’s fertility is nothing out of the ordinary for OECD countries of a similar economic development.

  144. jay says:
    @Rosie

    I define feminism as wanting to abolish distinction between sexes. Invade male spaces and most importantly opposing Patriarchy as Scripture defines it.

    He/She that opposes Patriarchy as defined by God himself is Anti-Christ.

    Israelites under said Patriarchy did fine despite oppression from Pharoah and became a populous Nation.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  145. Mitleser says:
    @Not Raul

    They are not much better than Germany’s major “conservative” party.

    PiS is trying to undercut support for left wing parties in Poland by adopting these liberal positions themselves.

    https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/02/04/polands-conservative-president-says-he-would-sign-same-sex-partnerships-law/

  146. Rosie says:
    @jay

    Invade male spaces

    Question-begging

    He/She that opposes Patriarchy as defined by God himself is Anti-Christ.

    The last resort of a misogynist out of arguments: God said so.

    • Troll: Owen C.
  147. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonloc

    We only need a Tfr of 3

    Why would you need a tfr of 3? That’s very high.

    Not that it matters since even a tfr of 2 is unachievable. Unless you want to go the totalitarian route – forced reproduction.

    • Replies: @216
  148. 216 says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    Concievably a state could impose a “bachelor tax” and outright subsidze women using sperm donors.

    If we go off the rate of surrogacy, USD 100K seems to be the ‘uterus rental’ rate.

    How many women would take a 100K “birth bonus” and expenses paid? Presumably “the state” manages to get child care arrangements.

    The trend of public policy has been to discourage single motherhood via the distribution of free contraception. Due to this and other cultural factors, teen pregnancy rates are dropping like a rock.

    But a post-industrial state that saw single mothers as a “positive good” is a novel idea.

    How many men would pay the tax instead of marrying a questionable woman or emigrating?

    Historically the closest example is the Romanian dictatorship, and this led to illegal abortions and pill smuggling. But, afiak, they didn’t go the route of encouraging “Slut Pride”. Presumably there are those here who could fill in the gaps.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  149. @songbird

    Propinquity: the white woman’s firewater.

    • Agree: songbird
  150. @Daniel Chieh

    It’s true that Russian women, at least, exhibit strong intra-sexual animosity. You would think it’s competitiveness, and perhaps it was once upon a time, but when you see what they have to compete over, you realize it’s just aimless cattiness – the female version of the aloof gopnik husband.

  151. @Iaxan

    It’s already a shit-show at Złoty Terasy and down in Krakow. Blacks rapping at malls, Bangladeshis cooking your food, Lankans delivering it, Indians in the tech offices, etc. Not many headscarves as yet, but so what?

  152. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Rosie

    What do you think is the solution?

    White pride World Wide.

    Unfortunately that’s not going to happen. White people hate other white people too much. There’s no hatred that compares to the hatred that various subsections of the white population feel for each other. These hatreds are based on class and ideology, which matter much more to whites than race.

    And just being white is too vague and too abstract. Even ethnic pride, which is more natural, is very weak among whites and getting weaker. And ethnic pride is impossible for artificial nations like the United States and Australia. The whites in those countries are too hopelessly ethnically mixed.

    Some kind of cultural identity might have a chance but again there’s the problem of those vicious intra-white hatreds.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  153. dfordoom says: • Website
    @216

    Concievably a state could impose a “bachelor tax” and outright subsidze women using sperm donors.

    How many women would take a 100K “birth bonus” and expenses paid? Presumably “the state” manages to get child care arrangements.

    When you add together the birth bonus and the “expenses paid” bit (which presumably means in practice the state subsidising the entire cost of raising of the child) you’re talking about a seriously expensive policy. It might be cheaper for the state to just do the child-raising itself. Establish something like the Central London Hatchery.

    So the “bachelor tax” is likely to be pretty savage. Would there be a “spinster tax” as well? I’m guessing that all those who end up paying the bachelor and spinster taxes are going to be very very unhappy about it. The poor suckers who get married and raise their own kids would also be pretty resentful. Unless you assume that every birth and the raising of every child is going to be fully subsidised by the government in which case that bachelor tax is going to have to be absolutely crippling.

    Either way it’s something that would only be feasible for a dictatorship of some kind. You ain’t gonna sell such a policy to the voters. Unless you spend years indoctrinating the population into believing that the Demographic Crisis is even worse than the Climate Change Crisis. To do that you’d need complete totalitarian control of the media, eduction, etc. So again we get back to requiring dictatorship and/or totalitarianism.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @216
  154. Rosie says:
    @dfordoom

    These hatreds are based on class and ideology, which matter much more to whites than race.

    That’s really not true. There are some Whites who are not particularly prone to class hatred, namely the Germanics. In Scandinavia, AFAIK, ostentation displays of wealth are very much frowned upon. For this reason, they are more dangerous, and all the more hated for it. The class hatred thing is an Anglo problem. Australia historically bucked that trend because of their roots as a penal colony, and created a veritable worker’s paradise as a result.

    Of course, these groups have been targeted for thorough brainwashing.

  155. Rosie says:
    @dfordoom

    Unless you spend years indoctrinating the population into believing that the Demographic Crisis is even worse than the Climate Change Crisis.

    Lord knows, if anyone can be whipped into a moral panic about a crisis, it’s huwite people. We’re famous for that.

    And I don’t think a media lockdown would be necessary. Our enemies need that only because of the repugnant nature of their message.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  156. 216 says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    I don’t think such a policy would ever be introduced in a Western liberal state, as they’d just prefer immigration instead. I’d imagine it occuring in an Asian illiberal state, where the state is unable or unwilling to use immigration.

    “expenses paid” bit (which presumably means in practice the state subsidising the entire cost of raising of the child)

    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/children/cb12-109.html

    10 yrs ago, the average US child support payment was $430. So with inflation around ~$500

    6k/year

    “Expenses paid” relates to the idea that the government is basically assigning a surrogate father. Will the average single man emigrate if they have to pay an extra 6k?

    The tax could also be made progressive. It has ancillary benefits to conservatives by being a “gay tax”.

    The poor suckers who get married and raise their own kids would also be pretty resentful.

    Idk, look at the US student debt bubble. Those who paid off loans don’t tend to be resentful at a bailout, though one would expect they should be.

    If we presume that the tax starts at 25, a couple have a $60K incentive to marry earlier rather than at 30. If you are the ROK government, where female demands are through the roof wrt wedding costs, my Modest Proposal doesn’t look so bad.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  157. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Rosie

    And I don’t think a media lockdown would be necessary. Our enemies need that only because of the repugnant nature of their message.

    But don’t you think that a state-sponsored policy to coerce unwilling women into having children they don’t actually want is pretty repugnant? It’s really just a variation of China’s notorious One Child Policy. Instead of the state coercing people to limit family sizes the state would be coercing people into having larger families. We could call it the Three Child Policy. Maybe we could find some old school Maoists to offer advice on how to deal with backsliders who refuse to do their duty to the state.

    I’m no feminist but even I find that to be a bit Handmaid’s Tale-ish. It comes down to seeing women merely as breeding units for the state.

    • Replies: @216
    , @Rosie
  158. 216 says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    The choices seem to be:

    -Pay thousands more USD in tax
    -Get married
    -Voluntarily become a single mother, get 100K in bonus, welfare statism, and 6k/year child support

    We’re at the point where UBI is treated as a serious policy issue (idk why not just pay migrants to stay in home countries). So the Slut Pride policy is just a “UBI for women only”.

    And the obvious eugenics angle hasn’t been factored in. Sperm donors will be “party approved”.

  159. Rosie says:
    @dfordoom

    But don’t you think that a state-sponsored policy to coerce unwilling women into having children they don’t actually want is pretty repugnant?

    Yes, but I don’t think coercion would be necessary.

    Women generally want kids.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  160. dfordoom says: • Website
    @216

    I don’t think such a policy would ever be introduced in a Western liberal state, as they’d just prefer immigration instead.

    Yep. And the big difficulty is that the majority of the population would consider immigration to be a much more attractive option. We have high levels of immigration in western liberal societies because immigration is popular. Time and time again voters vote for parties with high immigration policies. illegal immigration is moderately unpopular. Legal immigration is very popular.

    The Brits just elected the very pro-immigration Boris Johnson as prime minister. In Australia the very pro-immigration Tories have just won three consecutive elections. In Australia there is an anti-immigration party. They get around 5% of the vote. 95% of voters vote for pro-immigration parties.

    Americans voted for Trump, a man who has stated publicly that he would like to see record immigration levels.

    In western liberal societies immigration is much more popular than having children.

    I’d imagine it occuring in an Asian illiberal state, where the state is unable or unwilling to use immigration.

    Yes, it’s quite possible (indeed probable) that some Asian states will in fact go down this road.

  161. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Rosie

    Yes, but I don’t think coercion would be necessary.

    Women generally want kids.

    But they don’t want kids enough to actually have them. They want kids in an abstract sort of way. They think having kids would be nice. Then they think about what it would mean in practice. And they decide to stop at one child, or have no kids at all. Women generally want kids, but they don’t want them very much.

    And I’m not picking on women. Men have the same attitude towards children. In an abstract sort of way they think it would be cool to have kids. But they end up stopping at one child, or having no kids at all. They don’t want children very much either.

    No-one in a modern western or western-style liberal capitalist society is all that keen on having children. If the kids cost nothing and didn’t have to be looked after, in other words if kids were just like other consumer goods, people would have them. Hollywood stars like having children because if you’re rich kids really are just consumer goods. How many Hollywood stars do you suppose have ever changed a diaper?

    No-one is stopping people from having children. People are having very few children because having children is not very important to them. If they really wanted children they’d have them.

    If you wanted to raise birth rates significantly you’d require a great deal of coercion.

    • Replies: @another anon
  162. @dfordoom

    If you wanted to raise birth rates significantly you’d require a great deal of coercion.

    Or make it as profitable as in the good old times, where every child was free farm hand working on your field.

    Or there is Mr. Karlin’s proposal go fully transhumanist.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/paper-review-artificial-wombs/

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  163. dfordoom says: • Website
    @another anon

    Or there is Mr. Karlin’s proposal go fully transhumanist.

    Finally the dream of a Brave New World will come true. The Central London Hatchery will be a reality, except it will be the Central Moscow Hatchery. Even Lenin would never have dared to dream such dreams.

    • Replies: @another anon
  164. @dfordoom

    Finally the dream of a Brave New World will come true. The Central London Hatchery will be a reality, except it will be the Central Moscow Hatchery. Even Lenin would never have dared to dream such dreams.

    Lenin was complete loser, his empire lasted pathetic 70 years.

    The Real Lenin: Traitor, Parasite, Failure

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/lenin/

    Great Russian Galactic Empire will last for ten thousand years.

  165. Rosie says:

    If you wanted to raise birth rates significantly you’d require a great deal of coercion.

    The problem with what you’re saying here is that we’re already not all that far off from replacement with no coercion whatsoever. There are all sorts of possibilities we could explore.

    Take me, for instance. I get desperately sick when I’m pregnant. Had that not been so, I’d have probably had at least one more child. Because of the sickness, I needed a longer break between pregnancies.

    I’m convinced this is becoming a more and more common problem, and I have some theories as to what may be causing it. Women’s bodies may be on a hair trigger for barfing because of accumulated stores of food additives and environmental toxins that our bodies perceive as a threat to our babies.

    Now, this is just one example, but you get the idea.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5000

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  166. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Rosie

    The problem with what you’re saying here is that we’re already not all that far off from replacement with no coercion whatsoever.

    There’s some truth in that. Mass immigration is certainly happening with very little coercion.

    Although I am a bit sceptical about replacement. I think the most powerful and sinister force in the world today is cultural assimilation whereby we’re all being turned into a single mindless global monoculture. That’s the replacement that scares me – the replacement of existing healthy organic cultures with mass market moron culture.

    All the negative things that have happened to society since WW2 have been achieved pretty much without coercion.

    White European society has destroyed itself. White Europeans have abandoned their traditions and their culture and their values for the sake of easy credit and shiny consumer goods. Greed and shortsightedness have destroyed us, and it’s our own greed and shortsightedness.

    And people are not going to sacrifice those shiny consumer goods in order to raise more children.

    To fix things would however require an authoritarian government. Fixing our society is just not compatible with capitalism or democracy. The authoritarian government would have to be socialist. A right-wing authoritarian government would be just like every other right-wing authoritarian government – hopelessly corrupt and senselessly brutal.

    There might be hope for some Asian countries to survive by adopting a benevolent authoritarianism without necessarily going fully socialist.

  167. Although I am a bit sceptical about replacement. I think the most powerful and sinister force in the world today is cultural assimilation whereby we’re all being turned into a single mindless global monoculture. That’s the replacement that scares me – the replacement of existing healthy organic cultures with mass market moron culture.

    The opposite is happening. Capitalism is creating numerous infinitely varied and graded new cultures.

    Gay culture
    Trans culture
    Neo-nazi culture
    Anime culture
    Furry culture
    Gay anime neo-nazi trans furry culture.
    etc, etc…

    Let thousands of thousands flowers bloom!

    • Replies: @Anonloc
  168. Anonloc says:
    @another anon

    Same ethos of pacifist consumer and idealizing the nerdy managerial technocrats.

    edit – Beyond specific problems like fertility, marriage or immigration I dont see why white trashtionalists have a prob with this new capitalist society. Its the same fundamental ethos as chirstcuckery.
    De facto anyway, the celebration of sexual degeneracy just left church backrooms which had orgies even a 1000 years ago.

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