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How can you identify a cargo cult culture? (Or, as Thorfinnsson elegantly calls them, “fake and gay countries”?).

Well, here’s one thing I notice about many of them.

They’re obsessedobsessed! – over naming conventions for their countries and cities in foreign languages.

ukraine-kyiv-again

For instance, precisely nobody in The Netherlands – to the best of my knowledge – cares in the least about having an article appended to their name in English, presumably because they are quite successful and don’t have a raging inferiority complex.

ukraine-kyiv-not-kiev

But write “The Ukraine” (vs. the “correct” Ukraine) or “Kiev” (vs. the correct “Kyiv”), and you’re sure to have hordes of outraged svidomy knocking down your door and flooding your mentions.

Fortunately, most people from non-cargo cult countries aren’t submitting:

ukraine-not-kyiv

Even Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the ur-nemesis of Putin, who joined them Ukrainians on Euromaidan, sent the svidomy packing when they demanded he write the grammatically incorrect “в Украине” [in Ukraine] as opposed to the grammatically correct “на Украине” (at the Ukraine).

khodorkovsky-and-svidomy-trolls

Khodorkovsky: “Please don’t tell us the rules of our own language. Make Russian your second state language – then we’ll talk.

Consequently, Ukrainian media outlets WROTE OUTRAGED HEADLINES about Khodorkovsky’s Twitter rebuke, reaching levels of fakeness and homosexuality that should not even be possible.

Another gay though admittedly not fake country is Georgia, which has demanded its “friends” stop calling it Gruzia – as is standard throughout the Slavonic world, but – as it recently discovered – is in fact a relic of its “oppression” under Russia.

So far, it seems the only country that cares is Lithuania, another gay and mostly fake country:

The speaker of the Lithuanian parliament, the Seimas, Viktoras Pranckietis, said Lithuania’s official name for the Caucasus nation will be changed by 2018 as a “great gift” from Vilnius to the Georgian people, the website BaltNews reported.

Are there any examples of non-fake and gay countries making a big deal out of such matters?

Only example that comes to mind is China, which started encouraging people to use Beijing instead of Peking. But this was just a function of China adopting pinyin as its standard Romanization (whereas there is no official Romanization standard for Russian).

And it never made a big deal out of this, anyway.

Ergo for Czechia low-peddling its transition from the Czech Republic. Czechia is simply more accurate. But they don’t mind if you beg to differ. Czechia is neither fake nor particularly gay, despite allowing LGBT partnerships.

Seriously, is there any non fake and gay country that makes a fuss over naming conventions that don’t concern geopolitical disputes? I can’t think of any.

 
• Tags: Humor, Linguistics, Ukraine 
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  1. multicultists only pronounce/spell foreign words as they are pronounced/spelled in the native language when they think they’re superior to those nations (and feel guilty about it).

    for example Paris isn’t “Paree” and Munich isn’t “Munchen” cos they don’t feel superior to French and Germans.

    Having place names anglicized in English language media is a subconscious compliment.

  2. The diplomatic dispute between Greece and Macedonia. This doesn’t fall into the category of a geopolitical dispute either. The Greek demand is that Macedonia (which in Greece is always referred to as FYROM or Skopje) change its name.

    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje. But at its peak Macedonia responded to Greek hostility (Greece has been single handedly blocking Macedonia’s accession to NATO and the EU) with a highly amusing campaign of building massive statues of Alexander the Great (whom the Macedonians claim was, somehow, a slav). Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.

    Here’s a letter that mostly Greek classical scholars wrote to Obama a decade ago: http://macedonia-evidence.org/obama-letter.html

    What’s unique about this dispute is that Greek outrage is over what another country calls itself, rather than what other people call Greece.

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.

    Not really in the same category as these disputes, but related, are places which governments insist on renaming. Very common in former European colonies, and it was also common in the USSR and East Germany.

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
    "Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.
    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon."
    Some of those Bulgarian historical figures may have been Macedonian or predecessors of what would become Macedonia. Similarily too how Roman philosophers could be concieved of as predecessors of present day Italians. Whether you accept the name Macedonia is up to you. The Macedonians of today may be a seperate ethnic group as some of them claim or be a part of the Bulgarian nation, similar to how Bavarians are German.

    The South Slavs of the Balkans are descendants of both indiginous Balkan people preceding the Slavic migration aswell as Slavic migrants. Individuals from other genetic clusters have also joined the South Slavic genetic pot. Some of those indiginous Balkan people may have been Greeks and/or Macedonians. Most or some may descend from other indiginous Balkan people like Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, etc. Present day Fyrom is located primarily in the region of Paeonia. Therefore it may be more reasonable to assume that the greater part of Balkan admixture came from them rather than ancient Macedonians. When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonia_(kingdom)#Culture
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#Eastern_European

    , @DFH

    It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.
     
    They probably are mostly the descendants of ancient Macedon in a genetic sense. Mainland Greece was at one time almost entirely Slavic speaking as well before it was turned back, so genetically I doubt there is much in it. To be honest, neither of them are really living up to their ancestors.
    , @Matra
    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje

    I think it pop up again over the recent referendum on NATO?

    , @SveVid
    There was hardly any Greeks in Macedonia until about 100 years ago (since 1913) when hordes of Greek refugees from Turkey were settled there....name places, toponims were all changed to Greek ones (from Slavic) in the period since then.

    The ancient Macedonians were considered barbarians by the ancient Greeks and vice versa and always fought on opposite sides....including during Alexanders conquests
    , @silviosilver

    Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.
     
    Actually, the practice dates back to the late 19th century.

    What is it like to get a kick out of talking about things you clearly so know little about?
  3. RELATED!

    I had a two-hour long argument with two people about “Ukrainian nationalism.”

    I need help from Anatoly and the masses of this blog with these questions:

    I am looking for empirical historical/social answers to the following questions

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?
    2) Are “Russian-speaking” populations in eastern Ukraine the result of Stalinist forced population transfers? Or have they been there a good long while?
    3) Didn’t Nikolai Gogol once say his soul was both Russian and Ukrainian? Are there any great Ukrainian poets and figures from the past who wouldn’t agree with him?

    Perspectives from Ukrainian StormFags or rather more sensible lads like AP are welcome! Diversity is strength!

    • Replies: @WHAT
    Golodomor™(correct spelling here) was just as much if not more of a tragedy for russians because it was not contained to khokhol habitation areas. The whole thing is a dumb aping of Holocaust™ brand without the ability to extract shekels.

    There were no specific population transfers™ deserving of the name in the region, with Crimea and tatars there being the only exception. People peopling(lol) DNR and LNR have lived there for a long time.

    I can`t help you with Gogol, but it`s well known that even khokhol darling Shevchenko despised mova pseudolanguage and had his own notebooks in russian. Hell, why look back at all when you can watch any kind of video from their parliament right now and see them screaming at each other in russian?

    , @Anonymous lurker
    If I recall correctly, the 1932-33 Soviet famine (a.k.a. "Holodomor") was by far most disastrous to the Kazakhstanis, if viewed from an ethnic perspective. But, just like the previous 1920-22 Soviet famine, and the 1890-93 Russian famine, ethnic Russians suffered greatly as well, and typically these famines were concentrated to the Russian farmlands of the Volga basin, though occasionally stretching as far as to the Urals and the Dnepr.
    , @notanon

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?
     
    yes and no -iirc the famine itself was very widespread but there was maybe an additional element in Ukraine because of their resistance to the Bolsheviks during the civil war.
    , @Unzerker
    As for 2: Ukraine is the amalgamation of the Russian possessions in the Region, put together for administrative reasons.

    The south and east of Ukraine together with Crimea used to be part of the Crimean Khanate and was conquered when Russia finally defeated the Tartars in the 18th century. These sparsely populated areas were subsequently colonized by settlers from the Russian Empire, including Ukrainians.

    So you have it backwards. The reason there are Ukrainians in the east and south is because the Ukrainians were part of the Russian Empire.
    , @AP
    1. No. But Russians also perished. Ukrainian nationalists once claimed 7 million Ukrainians died (1 million ore than the number of Jews alleged to have died in the Holocaust). But modern consensus is a total of about 6 million deaths in the USSR, half of whom were in the Ukrainian SSR. So Ukraine was about 1/3 of the USSR population but half of the people who were starved to death. Within Ukraine the countryside was starved while the cities were fed. This meant ethnic Ukrainians were disproportionately affected (cities had large Russian and Jewish populations).

    2. They've been there since the late 18th century in small numbers, but increased from the late 19th to 20th centuries with industrialization (Ukrainian farmers would rather get fresh lands in Siberia than move into some factory town). However Stalin's work increased % of Russian population relative to Ukrainian for reasons described previously.

    3. Yes, he did. There are many less world-famous Ukrainians who would disagree.
  4. Mumbai. British Indians still pointedly refer to it as Bombay. Indeed, the local High Court is still called Bombay Court, lawyers being conservative and tricky.

    “The Ukraine” is grammatically correct as the translation of Ukrania is March, a borderland where inhabitants have rights to bear arms. March is preceded by a definite article. The Welsh Marches, The Roussilon March, The Brandenburg Mark. There is an exception with the early Anglish Kingdom of Mercia, the name being an early form of March.

    Ukraine is only correct insofaras the Ukrainian government has requested that it is so called in official correspondence.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    The unwritten convention is cities that were in fact built by the British like Bombay are referred to as such in popular conversation.

    Other places and geographic features that were renamed by the British have reverted to their native names Ganges is called Ganga,Poona,Cawnpore is now Pune,Kanpur etc.
    , @Gerard2

    Mumbai. British Indians still pointedly refer to it as Bombay
     
    Arrogant. British South Africans are certainly not still referring to Gauteng as Transvaal

    It helps though that the African government is relatively sensible on these matters (as opposed to the imbeciles in Kiev)- as in English is the dominant, official language and it's not as if places as Cape Town are going to Africanise their name
    , @silviosilver

    “The Ukraine” is grammatically correct as the translation of Ukrania is March, a borderland where inhabitants have rights to bear arms. March is preceded by a definite article. The Welsh Marches, The Roussilon March, The Brandenburg Mark. There is an exception with the early Anglish Kingdom of Mercia, the name being an early form of March.
     
    I don't recall journalists having any problem calling the region in Croatia that was a Serbian stronghold during the Yugoslav wars "Krajina" instead of "the Krajina." So I don't see why it should be so hard to just say Ukraine.
    , @Syagrius
    This is just a question, because I don't know how grammatical Ukrainian differs from grammatical Russian (quite aside from vocabulary, idiom, etc.)

    My wife and I hosted a girl from SE Ukraine for a year; she was by temperament and culture a Russian, who seemed to resent the artificialities of her mandated 'Ukrainian' schooling - reading Gogol and Pushkin in Ukrainian translations, for example - whose English was very good indeed, except the "the"... she never got the hang of its use, and I thought it was endearing and cute. We even stopped using it ourselves with her, at least sometimes, as an endearment.

    So the question is this: Is 'Ukraine' a "correct" translation, that is, a culturally-sensitive awareness of the lack of the definite article, or is it an insult to be avoided, like blackface or wearing a sombrero?

    We live in complicated times. But as that Ukrainian/Russian girl ate us out of house and home for a year, I think I deserve an answer.
  5. @Thorfinnsson
    The diplomatic dispute between Greece and Macedonia. This doesn't fall into the category of a geopolitical dispute either. The Greek demand is that Macedonia (which in Greece is always referred to as FYROM or Skopje) change its name.

    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje. But at its peak Macedonia responded to Greek hostility (Greece has been single handedly blocking Macedonia's accession to NATO and the EU) with a highly amusing campaign of building massive statues of Alexander the Great (whom the Macedonians claim was, somehow, a slav). Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.

    Here's a letter that mostly Greek classical scholars wrote to Obama a decade ago: http://macedonia-evidence.org/obama-letter.html

    What's unique about this dispute is that Greek outrage is over what another country calls itself, rather than what other people call Greece.

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It's certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they're descendants of ancient Macedon.

    Not really in the same category as these disputes, but related, are places which governments insist on renaming. Very common in former European colonies, and it was also common in the USSR and East Germany.

    “Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.
    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.”
    Some of those Bulgarian historical figures may have been Macedonian or predecessors of what would become Macedonia. Similarily too how Roman philosophers could be concieved of as predecessors of present day Italians. Whether you accept the name Macedonia is up to you. The Macedonians of today may be a seperate ethnic group as some of them claim or be a part of the Bulgarian nation, similar to how Bavarians are German.

    The South Slavs of the Balkans are descendants of both indiginous Balkan people preceding the Slavic migration aswell as Slavic migrants. Individuals from other genetic clusters have also joined the South Slavic genetic pot. Some of those indiginous Balkan people may have been Greeks and/or Macedonians. Most or some may descend from other indiginous Balkan people like Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, etc. Present day Fyrom is located primarily in the region of Paeonia. Therefore it may be more reasonable to assume that the greater part of Balkan admixture came from them rather than ancient Macedonians. When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonia_(kingdom)#Culture
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#Eastern_European

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Population replacement in agricultural civilization is relatively uncommon. Modern Turks and Hungarians for instance have precious little Turkic or Magyar blood. Thus even without investigating the genetic heritage of modern Macedonians, I have little doubt that they are mostly descended from the ancient Paeonians.

    Paeonians, however, weren't Greek. Thus it is odd that these South Slavs consider themselves Macedonian. I don't know what else to call them of course, and not being Balkanoid swine myself it's not an issue I can consider important.
    , @Guillaume Tell

    When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.
     
    This qualifies as the understatement of the day.
    , @Jaakko Raipala

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.
     
    Well, it's not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they're descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren't called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of "Russian" national identity.
  6. In 2008 Orbán promised to officially change the name of Georgia from Grúzia to Georgia (both g’s pronounced as in leg, the vowels are also different from English, in general slightly more difficult to pronounce than Grúzia, but the name of the people sounds silly with many vowels, georgiai, while the other version, grúz, is significantly easier), and then he followed through after 2010. But literally no one is using it, only when making a point. Although Grúzia is of Russian origin, and it only came into use after 1945, it’s pretty entrenched by now.

    • Replies: @Anon
    It must be very much on folks' minds.
    , @Not Raul
    Why not just call the country Kartvelebia?
  7. Romania has a more complex issue. Internally, we used “Romania” since the country was only a dream, and at least since the switch from Cyrillic. Most notably, the Declaration of Union signed 100 ago calls the country Romania, with an “O”. But we were OK with “Rumania” in most other languages, including in the French and English paperwork signed at the end of WW II.

    We then pushed for “Romania” for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals “ruman”.

    Skip ahead to 1990’s, and surprise: Gypsies have rebranded as “romas”. We thought we are getting everyone to call us, as we call ourselves, the sons of Rome, when, in fact, we became (even more) mixed up with Gypsies.

    I am not getting very worked up on that since I know Gypsies will try rebranding again. Any name they peak becomes a slur in a few years, so repeated rebranding is needed – similar to mental retard and homosexuality.

    AFAIK, Hungarians go through rebranding as well. They were also known as Magyars, Huns, Austrians, Turks.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    AFAIK, Hungarians go through rebranding as well. They were also known as Magyars, Huns, Austrians, Turks.
     
    But these were not pushed by Hungarians themselves.
    , @El Dato
    Gypsies were Eurorebranded "Kzinti & Roma" back in the 80s, weren't they?

    Because "Zigeuner" was demeaning (I wonder why).

    To the point where asking for a Zigeunerschnitzel isn't done anymore. Would it be racist to the ex-veal on the plate? Rootless cosmopolitans want to know.

    , @JLK

    I am not getting very worked up on that since I know Gypsies will try rebranding again. Any name they peak becomes a slur in a few years, so repeated rebranding is needed – similar to mental retard and homosexuality.
     
    That's known as "The Euphemism Treadmill."
    , @melanf

    We then pushed for “Romania” for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals “ruman”.
     
    In Russia, a country pronounced as "Romania" will be perceived as a country of Gypsies. To justify the connection with ancient Rome (in Russian), it is necessary to use the word Rim/Rimlane. But this idea (Romania=Ancient Rome) will naturally cause laughter.
  8. • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Is there anything to it? Or just the usual fake news?
     
    The media takes a marginal group, reports on it every now and then and pretends each time as if it is a new phenomenon.

    Here is one from over a year and half ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/06/russia-revolution-tsarist-school-moscow-nicholas-ii

    Malofeyev said the same thing then, I don't see any evidence that it is more than the personal belief of him and his followers:

    ''Malofeyev, however, said it could happen sooner than expected, and said he believes it to be quite possible that Putin could be crowned tsar: “Nobody wanted Yeltsin to carry on forever, but everyone wants Putin to carry on forever.”''

  9. Seriously, is there any non fake and gay country that makes a fuss over naming conventions that don’t concern geopolitical disputes? I can’t think of any.

    Well, it’s quite cogent of you you to point out that there’s more to these grammatical disputes than just punctilious bickering amongst lexicologists. 🙂

  10. @Dacian Soros
    Romania has a more complex issue. Internally, we used "Romania" since the country was only a dream, and at least since the switch from Cyrillic. Most notably, the Declaration of Union signed 100 ago calls the country Romania, with an "O". But we were OK with "Rumania" in most other languages, including in the French and English paperwork signed at the end of WW II.

    We then pushed for "Romania" for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals "ruman".

    Skip ahead to 1990's, and surprise: Gypsies have rebranded as "romas". We thought we are getting everyone to call us, as we call ourselves, the sons of Rome, when, in fact, we became (even more) mixed up with Gypsies.

    I am not getting very worked up on that since I know Gypsies will try rebranding again. Any name they peak becomes a slur in a few years, so repeated rebranding is needed - similar to mental retard and homosexuality.

    AFAIK, Hungarians go through rebranding as well. They were also known as Magyars, Huns, Austrians, Turks.

    AFAIK, Hungarians go through rebranding as well. They were also known as Magyars, Huns, Austrians, Turks.

    But these were not pushed by Hungarians themselves.

  11. Well Belgium is pretty F&G but they just fight over whether Bruxelles should be called Brussels or Bruxelles and whether french should be understood to be ignorable/utterly foreign/hostility-inviting in the flemish part.

  12. @Dacian Soros
    Romania has a more complex issue. Internally, we used "Romania" since the country was only a dream, and at least since the switch from Cyrillic. Most notably, the Declaration of Union signed 100 ago calls the country Romania, with an "O". But we were OK with "Rumania" in most other languages, including in the French and English paperwork signed at the end of WW II.

    We then pushed for "Romania" for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals "ruman".

    Skip ahead to 1990's, and surprise: Gypsies have rebranded as "romas". We thought we are getting everyone to call us, as we call ourselves, the sons of Rome, when, in fact, we became (even more) mixed up with Gypsies.

    I am not getting very worked up on that since I know Gypsies will try rebranding again. Any name they peak becomes a slur in a few years, so repeated rebranding is needed - similar to mental retard and homosexuality.

    AFAIK, Hungarians go through rebranding as well. They were also known as Magyars, Huns, Austrians, Turks.

    Gypsies were Eurorebranded “Kzinti & Roma” back in the 80s, weren’t they?

    Because “Zigeuner” was demeaning (I wonder why).

    To the point where asking for a Zigeunerschnitzel isn’t done anymore. Would it be racist to the ex-veal on the plate? Rootless cosmopolitans want to know.

    • Replies: @Anon

    Kzinti & Roma
     
    That would be more interesting, but I think they use Sinti.
  13. How is Lithuania a fake country?

    • Replies: @Turgot
    Lithuania is fake because it's a typical country created in 19. century based only on ethnic background and works of art, a country created by journalists, freemasons, professors, philologists, poets and such
  14. In Ireland;

    Northern Ireland v North of Ireland

    Protestants always say the former. Catholics used to insist on the latter but since the 1998 referendum when they formally recognised the Northern Ireland state (even if only temporarily) started to say the former more often, especially when in mixed company.

    Ulster v The Six Counties

    Because Protestants have so aggressively, and somewhat arrogantly, claimed the former the Catholics generally don’t use it unless speaking about history or the local rugby team.

    Londonderry v Derry

    Protestants use both for the city and county fairly indiscriminately without much fuss but Catholics absolutely always say ‘Derry’ unless they work in an official capacity (eg. BBC news reader) then they must alternate between the two.

    British Isles v These Isles

    Protestants always say ‘British isles’ and think saying ‘these isles’ is retarded. Catholics usually say ‘these isles’ but probably don’t really mind if a non-Irish person inserts the ‘British’ part as they know they’re not likely trying to score political points.

    Even football v soccer has come up a few times with the more anal Catholics insisting on referring to the non-indigenous game as ‘soccer’ like they do in North America and Australia. Even most Catholics would roll their eyes at this.

    • Replies: @Serrice
    Half my family comes from Belfast and I don't think I've ever heard someone say 'these isles.' Catholics/nationalists just avoid the whole 'British Isles' thing entirely. To us there's Ireland and there's Britain. No 'British Isles.'
    , @Tyrion 2
    Great Britain is the biggest of the many British islands just like Gran Canaria is the biggest of the Canaries. It shouldn't be even mildly controversial to use this name.
  15. @Thorfinnsson
    The diplomatic dispute between Greece and Macedonia. This doesn't fall into the category of a geopolitical dispute either. The Greek demand is that Macedonia (which in Greece is always referred to as FYROM or Skopje) change its name.

    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje. But at its peak Macedonia responded to Greek hostility (Greece has been single handedly blocking Macedonia's accession to NATO and the EU) with a highly amusing campaign of building massive statues of Alexander the Great (whom the Macedonians claim was, somehow, a slav). Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.

    Here's a letter that mostly Greek classical scholars wrote to Obama a decade ago: http://macedonia-evidence.org/obama-letter.html

    What's unique about this dispute is that Greek outrage is over what another country calls itself, rather than what other people call Greece.

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It's certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they're descendants of ancient Macedon.

    Not really in the same category as these disputes, but related, are places which governments insist on renaming. Very common in former European colonies, and it was also common in the USSR and East Germany.

    It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.

    They probably are mostly the descendants of ancient Macedon in a genetic sense. Mainland Greece was at one time almost entirely Slavic speaking as well before it was turned back, so genetically I doubt there is much in it. To be honest, neither of them are really living up to their ancestors.

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
    Much of the Slavic population of Hellas was resettled in Anatolia by the Byzantines. At the same time diaspora Greeks settled Hellas proper. Part of the Slavic population of Hellas would also be assimilated into the orthodox Greek speaking population.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Minor_Slavs
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaveni#Relationship_between_the_Slavs_in_Byzantium

    "They probably are mostly the descendants of ancient Macedon in a genetic sense. "
    That is just a guess. The core of Slavic Macedonia is now Paeonia. In the past Macedonia used to have a large Macedonian Slavic population. That population has declined atleast proportionally in the past century. It's numbers were not comparable to that of Paeonian Slavo-Macedonians. Therefore i find it mor likely that Paeonia is, and always has been the core of what were to become Slavo-Macedonians.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Macedonia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_speakers_of_Greek_Macedonia
  16. @Thorfinnsson
    The diplomatic dispute between Greece and Macedonia. This doesn't fall into the category of a geopolitical dispute either. The Greek demand is that Macedonia (which in Greece is always referred to as FYROM or Skopje) change its name.

    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje. But at its peak Macedonia responded to Greek hostility (Greece has been single handedly blocking Macedonia's accession to NATO and the EU) with a highly amusing campaign of building massive statues of Alexander the Great (whom the Macedonians claim was, somehow, a slav). Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.

    Here's a letter that mostly Greek classical scholars wrote to Obama a decade ago: http://macedonia-evidence.org/obama-letter.html

    What's unique about this dispute is that Greek outrage is over what another country calls itself, rather than what other people call Greece.

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It's certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they're descendants of ancient Macedon.

    Not really in the same category as these disputes, but related, are places which governments insist on renaming. Very common in former European colonies, and it was also common in the USSR and East Germany.

    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje

    I think it pop up again over the recent referendum on NATO?

  17. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    RELATED!

    I had a two-hour long argument with two people about "Ukrainian nationalism."

    I need help from Anatoly and the masses of this blog with these questions:

    I am looking for empirical historical/social answers to the following questions

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?
    2) Are “Russian-speaking” populations in eastern Ukraine the result of Stalinist forced population transfers? Or have they been there a good long while?
    3) Didn't Nikolai Gogol once say his soul was both Russian and Ukrainian? Are there any great Ukrainian poets and figures from the past who wouldn't agree with him?

    Perspectives from Ukrainian StormFags or rather more sensible lads like AP are welcome! Diversity is strength!

    Golodomor™(correct spelling here) was just as much if not more of a tragedy for russians because it was not contained to khokhol habitation areas. The whole thing is a dumb aping of Holocaust™ brand without the ability to extract shekels.

    There were no specific population transfers™ deserving of the name in the region, with Crimea and tatars there being the only exception. People peopling(lol) DNR and LNR have lived there for a long time.

    I can`t help you with Gogol, but it`s well known that even khokhol darling Shevchenko despised mova pseudolanguage and had his own notebooks in russian. Hell, why look back at all when you can watch any kind of video from their parliament right now and see them screaming at each other in russian?

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    That's a start, thank you.
  18. @Thorfinnsson
    The diplomatic dispute between Greece and Macedonia. This doesn't fall into the category of a geopolitical dispute either. The Greek demand is that Macedonia (which in Greece is always referred to as FYROM or Skopje) change its name.

    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje. But at its peak Macedonia responded to Greek hostility (Greece has been single handedly blocking Macedonia's accession to NATO and the EU) with a highly amusing campaign of building massive statues of Alexander the Great (whom the Macedonians claim was, somehow, a slav). Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.

    Here's a letter that mostly Greek classical scholars wrote to Obama a decade ago: http://macedonia-evidence.org/obama-letter.html

    What's unique about this dispute is that Greek outrage is over what another country calls itself, rather than what other people call Greece.

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It's certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they're descendants of ancient Macedon.

    Not really in the same category as these disputes, but related, are places which governments insist on renaming. Very common in former European colonies, and it was also common in the USSR and East Germany.

    There was hardly any Greeks in Macedonia until about 100 years ago (since 1913) when hordes of Greek refugees from Turkey were settled there….name places, toponims were all changed to Greek ones (from Slavic) in the period since then.

    The ancient Macedonians were considered barbarians by the ancient Greeks and vice versa and always fought on opposite sides….including during Alexanders conquests

    • Replies: @DFH

    The ancient Macedonians were considered barbarians by the ancient Greeks and vice versa and always fought on opposite sides….including during Alexanders conquests

     

    That is not true, Herodotus talked about their Greek ancestry and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games because of it. The only time most of the Greeks fought on the same side (before being conquered by Macedon) was during the Persian invasions, and although the Macedonians did medise, so did many other Greeks (including the Thebans).
  19. @reiner Tor
    In 2008 Orbán promised to officially change the name of Georgia from Grúzia to Georgia (both g’s pronounced as in leg, the vowels are also different from English, in general slightly more difficult to pronounce than Grúzia, but the name of the people sounds silly with many vowels, georgiai, while the other version, grúz, is significantly easier), and then he followed through after 2010. But literally no one is using it, only when making a point. Although Grúzia is of Russian origin, and it only came into use after 1945, it’s pretty entrenched by now.

    It must be very much on folks’ minds.

  20. @SveVid
    There was hardly any Greeks in Macedonia until about 100 years ago (since 1913) when hordes of Greek refugees from Turkey were settled there....name places, toponims were all changed to Greek ones (from Slavic) in the period since then.

    The ancient Macedonians were considered barbarians by the ancient Greeks and vice versa and always fought on opposite sides....including during Alexanders conquests

    The ancient Macedonians were considered barbarians by the ancient Greeks and vice versa and always fought on opposite sides….including during Alexanders conquests

    That is not true, Herodotus talked about their Greek ancestry and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games because of it. The only time most of the Greeks fought on the same side (before being conquered by Macedon) was during the Persian invasions, and although the Macedonians did medise, so did many other Greeks (including the Thebans).

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    That is not true, Herodotus talked about their Greek ancestry and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games because of it. The only time most of the Greeks fought on the same side (before being conquered by Macedon) was during the Persian invasions, and although the Macedonians did medise, so did many other Greeks (including the Thebans).
     
    Just prior to the Balkan Wars (of 1912/13), even the portion that became part of Greece was heavily demographically mixed between Greeks, Bulgarians (today "Macedonians") and Turks. Census numbers relating to this period remain hotly contested down to the present day, but it is clear that the region only became overwhelmingly Greek after the population exchange with Turkey brought a million more Greeks to Greece. A separate, smaller population exchange with Bulgaria, as well as a general exodus of Bulgarians to Bulgaria after WWI and, after the Greek Civil War, to Yugoslavia, also thinned out slavic numbers.
  21. @El Dato
    Gypsies were Eurorebranded "Kzinti & Roma" back in the 80s, weren't they?

    Because "Zigeuner" was demeaning (I wonder why).

    To the point where asking for a Zigeunerschnitzel isn't done anymore. Would it be racist to the ex-veal on the plate? Rootless cosmopolitans want to know.

    Kzinti & Roma

    That would be more interesting, but I think they use Sinti.

  22. @Dacian Soros
    Romania has a more complex issue. Internally, we used "Romania" since the country was only a dream, and at least since the switch from Cyrillic. Most notably, the Declaration of Union signed 100 ago calls the country Romania, with an "O". But we were OK with "Rumania" in most other languages, including in the French and English paperwork signed at the end of WW II.

    We then pushed for "Romania" for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals "ruman".

    Skip ahead to 1990's, and surprise: Gypsies have rebranded as "romas". We thought we are getting everyone to call us, as we call ourselves, the sons of Rome, when, in fact, we became (even more) mixed up with Gypsies.

    I am not getting very worked up on that since I know Gypsies will try rebranding again. Any name they peak becomes a slur in a few years, so repeated rebranding is needed - similar to mental retard and homosexuality.

    AFAIK, Hungarians go through rebranding as well. They were also known as Magyars, Huns, Austrians, Turks.

    I am not getting very worked up on that since I know Gypsies will try rebranding again. Any name they peak becomes a slur in a few years, so repeated rebranding is needed – similar to mental retard and homosexuality.

    That’s known as “The Euphemism Treadmill.”

  23. Another funny thing they are always angry against is pronouncing like укрАинцьі rather than украИнцьі, and like УкрАина instead of УкраИна.

    he write the grammatically incorrect “в Украине” [in Ukraine] as opposed to the grammatically correct “на Украине” (at the Ukraine).

    It’s more childish as a dispute than imagined or reported, if you know that until the 2000s, “на Украине” – was the most commonly used amongst Ukrainians themselves

    elegantly calls them, “fake and gay countries”?).

    I guess if the objective of the “elegant” language, is to attract readership of 12 year old gamers.

  24. @Rattus Norwegius
    "Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.
    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon."
    Some of those Bulgarian historical figures may have been Macedonian or predecessors of what would become Macedonia. Similarily too how Roman philosophers could be concieved of as predecessors of present day Italians. Whether you accept the name Macedonia is up to you. The Macedonians of today may be a seperate ethnic group as some of them claim or be a part of the Bulgarian nation, similar to how Bavarians are German.

    The South Slavs of the Balkans are descendants of both indiginous Balkan people preceding the Slavic migration aswell as Slavic migrants. Individuals from other genetic clusters have also joined the South Slavic genetic pot. Some of those indiginous Balkan people may have been Greeks and/or Macedonians. Most or some may descend from other indiginous Balkan people like Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, etc. Present day Fyrom is located primarily in the region of Paeonia. Therefore it may be more reasonable to assume that the greater part of Balkan admixture came from them rather than ancient Macedonians. When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonia_(kingdom)#Culture
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#Eastern_European

    Population replacement in agricultural civilization is relatively uncommon. Modern Turks and Hungarians for instance have precious little Turkic or Magyar blood. Thus even without investigating the genetic heritage of modern Macedonians, I have little doubt that they are mostly descended from the ancient Paeonians.

    Paeonians, however, weren’t Greek. Thus it is odd that these South Slavs consider themselves Macedonian. I don’t know what else to call them of course, and not being Balkanoid swine myself it’s not an issue I can consider important.

  25. Czechoslovakia was “Czechoslovak Socialistic Republic” from 1960 until 1990. Proposed change back to the “Czechoslovak Republic” made some Slovaks berserk. Czechs didn’t understand why this is a problem. To satisfy everyone the state was renamed to “Czechoslovak Federative Republic” in Czech and “Czecho-Slovak Federative Republic” in Slovak. This felt so silly, that after just one month, the name was changed again to “Czech and Slovak Federative Republic“, with the same spelling in both languages. One year later dissolution of Czechoslovakia was agreed.

    Slovaks now spell “Czechoslovakia” as “Czecho-Slovakia” regardless of historical context, and forced this style into all articles of Slovak Wikipedia.

    This truly idiotic dispute helped to keep alive the long version of the name – “Czech Republic” (Česká republika) . Nobody wanted yet another round of renaming. However, two decades later schools quietly adopted the otherwise disliked short form (Česko), and when kids grow up, they won’t have any attachment to the traditional long form.

    During the intewar period we had the same kind of disputes.

  26. @WHAT
    Golodomor™(correct spelling here) was just as much if not more of a tragedy for russians because it was not contained to khokhol habitation areas. The whole thing is a dumb aping of Holocaust™ brand without the ability to extract shekels.

    There were no specific population transfers™ deserving of the name in the region, with Crimea and tatars there being the only exception. People peopling(lol) DNR and LNR have lived there for a long time.

    I can`t help you with Gogol, but it`s well known that even khokhol darling Shevchenko despised mova pseudolanguage and had his own notebooks in russian. Hell, why look back at all when you can watch any kind of video from their parliament right now and see them screaming at each other in russian?

    That’s a start, thank you.

  27. I had to look up that bit on Seinfeld where Newman and Kramer were playing Risk on the train and mention “the Ukraine”, Kramer calling it weak and raising the ire of a faux Ukrainian who says “Ukraine is strong” and upsets the board.

    I prefer “the”. It somehow sounds stronger. Something a country should aspire to be. Besides, any distinction should be savored, since globalists wish to destroy all distinctions.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Is there anything to be said for a theological interpretation of Seinfeld where Newman is Newman and Kramer is Cranmer?

    Probably not.
  28. See also: the good people of Scotland, who have strong feelings about the word “scotch”. “Fake and gay” covers it pretty well.

    • Replies: @songbird
    And how gay are the Latinos that take offence at "America" and "Americans" for the USA? Any of those countries have "America" in their name? Do they even know where the word comes from? A puny European compared to Columbus.
    , @dearieme
    It's a result, I suspect, of schoolteacher propaganda. I remember my father's contempt for what he called Nineteenth Century Schoolteacher Nationalism.

    I don't know any Scots who give a hoot about "Scotch" but no doubt some exist. Prats!
  29. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    RELATED!

    I had a two-hour long argument with two people about "Ukrainian nationalism."

    I need help from Anatoly and the masses of this blog with these questions:

    I am looking for empirical historical/social answers to the following questions

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?
    2) Are “Russian-speaking” populations in eastern Ukraine the result of Stalinist forced population transfers? Or have they been there a good long while?
    3) Didn't Nikolai Gogol once say his soul was both Russian and Ukrainian? Are there any great Ukrainian poets and figures from the past who wouldn't agree with him?

    Perspectives from Ukrainian StormFags or rather more sensible lads like AP are welcome! Diversity is strength!

    If I recall correctly, the 1932-33 Soviet famine (a.k.a. “Holodomor”) was by far most disastrous to the Kazakhstanis, if viewed from an ethnic perspective. But, just like the previous 1920-22 Soviet famine, and the 1890-93 Russian famine, ethnic Russians suffered greatly as well, and typically these famines were concentrated to the Russian farmlands of the Volga basin, though occasionally stretching as far as to the Urals and the Dnepr.

  30. Greeks seem to be a proud people, from my acquaintances. Maybe, that is stoked a bit by what the Turks did to them…

    All the mainland ones are more or less a bit Slav. I doubt if there is any great genetic differences between them and Macedonians. And the latter country does at least contain part of Philip II’s kingdom. I’ve heard it explained that it is about territory. That Tito had designs on Greek lands or even the Aegean. Still, I think it is mostly about pride. What went wrong for the Greeks is a question many ask.

    But I think Turkey is quite a gay country. You have to be gay to change the name of one of the most famous cities in the world. Egyptians did not change the name of Alexandria. And to claim you are a part of Europe, just because you have the tip of your nose in it!

  31. @anon
    See also: the good people of Scotland, who have strong feelings about the word "scotch". "Fake and gay" covers it pretty well.

    And how gay are the Latinos that take offence at “America” and “Americans” for the USA? Any of those countries have “America” in their name? Do they even know where the word comes from? A puny European compared to Columbus.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
    And, as everyone here I am sure knows, "AmeriCa" (with a C) results of a typesetting error that occurred circa 1507 in Saint-Dié (nowadays France but HRE back then). It should have been AmeriGa instead (with a G).
  32. Have seen some Czechs get cranked up about ‘Czechia’ because they feel it is less representative of the Bohemian-Moravian split in the country, than ‘Czech Republic’ – Moravians being under 15% of the total, a little too tiny to go full Slovak-separatist

    Well in ‘fake and gay’ Belgium today the anti-migrant Flemish demonstrators out-numbered the pro-migrant leftist groups, about 5500 to 1000

    The right wing and tagging-along hooligans faced off the police, right at the centre of the European Commission district, some breaking glass on the EU buildings etc

    One right wing slogan was ‘Linkse ratten, rol uw matten’ – ‘Leftist rats, roll up your mats’, i.e., pack up & get out

    Lots of photos here, including the masked gents kicking in the EU doorways
    https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/foto-s-veldslag-tussen-betogers-en-politie-in-30-beelden~abd72930/

    • Replies: @LH

    Have seen some Czechs get cranked up about ‘Czechia’ because they feel it is less representative of the Bohemian-Moravian split in the country, than ‘Czech Republic’ – Moravians being under 15% of the total, a little too tiny to go full Slovak-separatist
     
    The reasons for unpopularity of the short form were linguistic, historical and psychological. The word Česko/Czechia felt artificial and ugly sounding. There was no single word for the Czech lands, also the Latin name Bohemia (after a Celtic tribe) collided with later Slavic names. Experience of absurd name disputes with the Slovaks in the 1990's helped to keep the long form. The fear of further breakdown of the country was real.


    Short name confusion was also present in German language, with Tschechei and Tschecheien variants. (Tschecheien won.)
    , @notanon
    hopefully Bane will be along soon

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36odfqA-Xqw
  33. @Rattus Norwegius
    "Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.
    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon."
    Some of those Bulgarian historical figures may have been Macedonian or predecessors of what would become Macedonia. Similarily too how Roman philosophers could be concieved of as predecessors of present day Italians. Whether you accept the name Macedonia is up to you. The Macedonians of today may be a seperate ethnic group as some of them claim or be a part of the Bulgarian nation, similar to how Bavarians are German.

    The South Slavs of the Balkans are descendants of both indiginous Balkan people preceding the Slavic migration aswell as Slavic migrants. Individuals from other genetic clusters have also joined the South Slavic genetic pot. Some of those indiginous Balkan people may have been Greeks and/or Macedonians. Most or some may descend from other indiginous Balkan people like Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, etc. Present day Fyrom is located primarily in the region of Paeonia. Therefore it may be more reasonable to assume that the greater part of Balkan admixture came from them rather than ancient Macedonians. When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonia_(kingdom)#Culture
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#Eastern_European

    When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.

    This qualifies as the understatement of the day.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    I don’t think you have the necessary qualifications to play Racist in Chief when trying to sort out the differences between the Slavs. Let’s just say this about the southern Slavs: – don’t let the good looks fool you.
  34. @songbird
    I had to look up that bit on Seinfeld where Newman and Kramer were playing Risk on the train and mention "the Ukraine", Kramer calling it weak and raising the ire of a faux Ukrainian who says "Ukraine is strong" and upsets the board.

    I prefer "the". It somehow sounds stronger. Something a country should aspire to be. Besides, any distinction should be savored, since globalists wish to destroy all distinctions.

    Is there anything to be said for a theological interpretation of Seinfeld where Newman is Newman and Kramer is Cranmer?

    Probably not.

    • LOL: songbird
  35. @songbird
    And how gay are the Latinos that take offence at "America" and "Americans" for the USA? Any of those countries have "America" in their name? Do they even know where the word comes from? A puny European compared to Columbus.

    And, as everyone here I am sure knows, “AmeriCa” (with a C) results of a typesetting error that occurred circa 1507 in Saint-Dié (nowadays France but HRE back then). It should have been AmeriGa instead (with a G).

  36. @Brabantian
    Have seen some Czechs get cranked up about 'Czechia' because they feel it is less representative of the Bohemian-Moravian split in the country, than 'Czech Republic' - Moravians being under 15% of the total, a little too tiny to go full Slovak-separatist

    Well in 'fake and gay' Belgium today the anti-migrant Flemish demonstrators out-numbered the pro-migrant leftist groups, about 5500 to 1000

    The right wing and tagging-along hooligans faced off the police, right at the centre of the European Commission district, some breaking glass on the EU buildings etc

    One right wing slogan was 'Linkse ratten, rol uw matten' - 'Leftist rats, roll up your mats', i.e., pack up & get out

    Lots of photos here, including the masked gents kicking in the EU doorways
    https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/foto-s-veldslag-tussen-betogers-en-politie-in-30-beelden~abd72930/

    Have seen some Czechs get cranked up about ‘Czechia’ because they feel it is less representative of the Bohemian-Moravian split in the country, than ‘Czech Republic’ – Moravians being under 15% of the total, a little too tiny to go full Slovak-separatist

    The reasons for unpopularity of the short form were linguistic, historical and psychological. The word Česko/Czechia felt artificial and ugly sounding. There was no single word for the Czech lands, also the Latin name Bohemia (after a Celtic tribe) collided with later Slavic names. Experience of absurd name disputes with the Slovaks in the 1990’s helped to keep the long form. The fear of further breakdown of the country was real.

    Short name confusion was also present in German language, with Tschechei and Tschecheien variants. (Tschecheien won.)

    • Replies: @notanon
    Czechia sounds pretty cool imo.
    , @Anon 2
    Czechy, the Polish name for Czechia, feels perfectly neutral - there is
    nothing pejorative about it. Interestingly, the name 'Bohemia' is almost
    never used in Polish.

    Poland's original name is Lechia, after Lech - the mythical 9th
    century founder of the country. It's still used occasionally by sports
    teams, and the like, and is still present in some languages, e.g.,
    Lenkija in Lithuanian, Lengyelorszag in Hungarian or Lehistan in
    Ottoman Turkish.

    Amusingly, Poland is now being exposed to a lot of Czech (and
    perhaps vice versa) because of the popular bilingual singer Ewa Farna
    who was born into the Polish minority in Czechia, and seems to be
    equally comfortable (i.e., accentless) in both Czech and Polish. She
    went from a skinny teenager when she had her first hit in 2006 to
    her present zoftig (as Johnny Carson would say) self which figured
    prominently in her latest hit " Boky jako skrin" (Hips like a cupboard).
    To the Polish ear it's surprising how many Czech phrases in that song
    sound close or almost identical to Polish (esp. if the lyrics appear on
    the screen)

  37. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    RELATED!

    I had a two-hour long argument with two people about "Ukrainian nationalism."

    I need help from Anatoly and the masses of this blog with these questions:

    I am looking for empirical historical/social answers to the following questions

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?
    2) Are “Russian-speaking” populations in eastern Ukraine the result of Stalinist forced population transfers? Or have they been there a good long while?
    3) Didn't Nikolai Gogol once say his soul was both Russian and Ukrainian? Are there any great Ukrainian poets and figures from the past who wouldn't agree with him?

    Perspectives from Ukrainian StormFags or rather more sensible lads like AP are welcome! Diversity is strength!

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?

    yes and no -iirc the famine itself was very widespread but there was maybe an additional element in Ukraine because of their resistance to the Bolsheviks during the civil war.

    • Replies: @Anon

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?
     
    The Holodomor was a genocide of the Russian people.
  38. @Guillaume Tell

    When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.
     
    This qualifies as the understatement of the day.

    I don’t think you have the necessary qualifications to play Racist in Chief when trying to sort out the differences between the Slavs. Let’s just say this about the southern Slavs: – don’t let the good looks fool you.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell

    « I don’t think you have the necessary qualifications ».
     
    We’ve met before?

    Where is it that I was

    « playing racist in chief »
     
    ?

    You are obviously an imbecile, to utter unwarrantex tatements as those.
    , @Mikhail
    Southeastern Slavs are a mixed lot, as BTW is true with other Slavs. Some Bulgarians and Serbs look like they can pass for Turks, while others look quite Slavic.
  39. @Brabantian
    Have seen some Czechs get cranked up about 'Czechia' because they feel it is less representative of the Bohemian-Moravian split in the country, than 'Czech Republic' - Moravians being under 15% of the total, a little too tiny to go full Slovak-separatist

    Well in 'fake and gay' Belgium today the anti-migrant Flemish demonstrators out-numbered the pro-migrant leftist groups, about 5500 to 1000

    The right wing and tagging-along hooligans faced off the police, right at the centre of the European Commission district, some breaking glass on the EU buildings etc

    One right wing slogan was 'Linkse ratten, rol uw matten' - 'Leftist rats, roll up your mats', i.e., pack up & get out

    Lots of photos here, including the masked gents kicking in the EU doorways
    https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/foto-s-veldslag-tussen-betogers-en-politie-in-30-beelden~abd72930/

    hopefully Bane will be along soon

  40. @LH

    Have seen some Czechs get cranked up about ‘Czechia’ because they feel it is less representative of the Bohemian-Moravian split in the country, than ‘Czech Republic’ – Moravians being under 15% of the total, a little too tiny to go full Slovak-separatist
     
    The reasons for unpopularity of the short form were linguistic, historical and psychological. The word Česko/Czechia felt artificial and ugly sounding. There was no single word for the Czech lands, also the Latin name Bohemia (after a Celtic tribe) collided with later Slavic names. Experience of absurd name disputes with the Slovaks in the 1990's helped to keep the long form. The fear of further breakdown of the country was real.


    Short name confusion was also present in German language, with Tschechei and Tschecheien variants. (Tschecheien won.)

    Czechia sounds pretty cool imo.

  41. Here’s google trends in Ukraine for “kiev” vs “kyiv”.

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=UA&q=kiev,kyiv

    Kyiv is not going to happen… it’s not ergonomic for English speakers to type. It’s also not obvious how to pronounce it. It could be one or two syllables. It’s extremely rare for “y” to be proceeded by a consonant and fallowed by an “i”.

  42. Do you in Russia use the word “Rzeczpospolita” on Poland? The official name of Poland is “Rzeczpospolita Polska” which means the Commonwealth of Poland, not as it’s wrongly translated the Republic of Poland

    • Replies: @melanf

    Do you in Russia use the word “Rzeczpospolita” on Poland? The official name of Poland is “Rzeczpospolita Polska” which means the Commonwealth of Poland, not as it’s wrongly translated the Republic of Poland
     
    This name is used but rarely, in most cases to describe the "Poland" 16-18 centuries. But this name is understandable for Russians.
  43. @DFH
    How is Lithuania a fake country?

    Lithuania is fake because it’s a typical country created in 19. century based only on ethnic background and works of art, a country created by journalists, freemasons, professors, philologists, poets and such

    • Replies: @DFH
    What other basis for a country is there?
  44. @Philip Owen
    Mumbai. British Indians still pointedly refer to it as Bombay. Indeed, the local High Court is still called Bombay Court, lawyers being conservative and tricky.

    "The Ukraine" is grammatically correct as the translation of Ukrania is March, a borderland where inhabitants have rights to bear arms. March is preceded by a definite article. The Welsh Marches, The Roussilon March, The Brandenburg Mark. There is an exception with the early Anglish Kingdom of Mercia, the name being an early form of March.

    Ukraine is only correct insofaras the Ukrainian government has requested that it is so called in official correspondence.

    The unwritten convention is cities that were in fact built by the British like Bombay are referred to as such in popular conversation.

    Other places and geographic features that were renamed by the British have reverted to their native names Ganges is called Ganga,Poona,Cawnpore is now Pune,Kanpur etc.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    There is also a significant campaign to re-name cities with muslim names. For instance, Allahabad to Prayagraj/Prayag. This was recently done in UP (now controlled by Yogi Adityanath, a Hindu nationalist monk which is its chief minister).

    There are similar suggestions for many cities in North India and even some in the southern parts, such as Hyderabad, though the latter is likely not happening since the ruling party is a secular left-of-center one. Any city with -bad at the end, has muslim/foreign roots.

    We often underestimate just how thoroughly dominated India was for the last 1000 years by foreigners. Even the word Hindu itself is a foreign word from the muslim foreign rulers. 'Indian' meals such as biryani also have foreign muslim roots., including the word itself.

    I personally support this campaign, but if we were to go by AK's tongue-in-cheek smear of any country obsessed with re-naming then India would by any standard be seen as deeply insecure and "fake" since so much of its names and language has been imposed from the outside for almost a thousand years, to the extent you can barely ask what is even authentically 'Indian' anymore.

    But I don't really see it as such. The Czech language was almost wiped out 200 years ago, at least in the major cities in Czechia. Czech was relegated to being a pastoral language in the countryside with people seriously predicting its eradication within a realistic timehorizon. However, there was a conscious effort to revive it. Today, many who are not knowledgable about history would be shocked to hear that German was a majority language in Prague, Brno and other major cities not too long ago. This is a testament to the revival movements success, as well as the re-awakened national spirit of the Czech people. I don't see why this shouldn't be seen as a template for Hindus to rid themselves of this historical baggage in their own country.

    I certainly hope that India purges as much of the foreign influence as possible and re-asserts itself. I would also change India to Bharat even in English. Hindustan is sometimes used in Hindi (both of those words are also imported/have their roots from foreign muslim rulers). Today, Hindi is often peppered with a lot of English phrases. There ought to be a general movement in Bharat today to clean up the language and root it in the local population and its accordant customs and traditions. Language is power.

  45. @reiner Tor
    OT

    Is there anything to it? Or just the usual fake news?

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/czar-vladimir-putin-acolytes-want-to-bring-back-the-monarchy-11544732680

    Is there anything to it? Or just the usual fake news?

    The media takes a marginal group, reports on it every now and then and pretends each time as if it is a new phenomenon.

    Here is one from over a year and half ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/06/russia-revolution-tsarist-school-moscow-nicholas-ii

    Malofeyev said the same thing then, I don’t see any evidence that it is more than the personal belief of him and his followers:

    ”Malofeyev, however, said it could happen sooner than expected, and said he believes it to be quite possible that Putin could be crowned tsar: “Nobody wanted Yeltsin to carry on forever, but everyone wants Putin to carry on forever.””

  46. Fuck I get offended that the piece of shit place calls its self Georgia. The Dixieland State of Georgia has been around legally longer then that gay land.

    And for you yankee fucktards its western Virginia not “West Virginia”. Of course in all honesty eastern part of Virginia might as well be called Cucked Virginia at this point.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Most West Virginians proudly wave the Confederate flags AND call their state West Virginia

    I think I'll side with this guy over you

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5c/d6/c2/5cd6c26a04d8ecaf88b6ceeb84ef7709.jpg
  47. It’s true. Israelis get all butt-hurt if you spell their country “Palestine”. I guess Israel is a fake and gay country.

    Even their cities:
    Yerushalayim vs al-Quds
    Natzrat vs al-Nasra
    etc. etc. etc.

    You know you have an inferiority complex when “Palestinian couscous” is threatening:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/virgin-atlantic-removes-palestinian-from-couscous-description/

    Now that I recall Tel Aviv is the most LGBT-friendly city in the world. Figures.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In the interest of culinary accuracy, Israeli couscous - the large diameter kind where semolina is rolled into a white sticky sphere - was invented by an Israeli industrial food lab in 1954. There is absolutely nothing "Palestinian" about it, and to call it 'Palestinian couscous' is stupid and inaccurate.

    Also, quick, which do you think is the original name: Yerushalayim or Al Quds?
  48. @Turgot
    Do you in Russia use the word "Rzeczpospolita" on Poland? The official name of Poland is "Rzeczpospolita Polska" which means the Commonwealth of Poland, not as it's wrongly translated the Republic of Poland

    Do you in Russia use the word “Rzeczpospolita” on Poland? The official name of Poland is “Rzeczpospolita Polska” which means the Commonwealth of Poland, not as it’s wrongly translated the Republic of Poland

    This name is used but rarely, in most cases to describe the “Poland” 16-18 centuries. But this name is understandable for Russians.

  49. @Dacian Soros
    Romania has a more complex issue. Internally, we used "Romania" since the country was only a dream, and at least since the switch from Cyrillic. Most notably, the Declaration of Union signed 100 ago calls the country Romania, with an "O". But we were OK with "Rumania" in most other languages, including in the French and English paperwork signed at the end of WW II.

    We then pushed for "Romania" for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals "ruman".

    Skip ahead to 1990's, and surprise: Gypsies have rebranded as "romas". We thought we are getting everyone to call us, as we call ourselves, the sons of Rome, when, in fact, we became (even more) mixed up with Gypsies.

    I am not getting very worked up on that since I know Gypsies will try rebranding again. Any name they peak becomes a slur in a few years, so repeated rebranding is needed - similar to mental retard and homosexuality.

    AFAIK, Hungarians go through rebranding as well. They were also known as Magyars, Huns, Austrians, Turks.

    We then pushed for “Romania” for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals “ruman”.

    In Russia, a country pronounced as “Romania” will be perceived as a country of Gypsies. To justify the connection with ancient Rome (in Russian), it is necessary to use the word Rim/Rimlane. But this idea (Romania=Ancient Rome) will naturally cause laughter.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    The official name of the country is "România", the people are "Români".
    The trouble for foreigners is not so much the alternance between Ru- and Ro-, but the pronunciation of â/î (a vowel existing only in Rumanian and Slavic languages (Russian ы).
    Ru/Ro has a historical reason. The name that the people used was 'Rumâni', the country was 'Țara Rumânească', or 'Rumânie'. The name 'România' was adopted after the unification of the former Principalities of Moldova and Muntenia (Valahia or Țara Românească)
    The French, would call the new state 'Roumanie' and the people 'Roumains', the Germans 'Rumänien' and the people 'Rumänen', the English 'Rumania', 'Rumanians', the Russians 'Румыния', 'румынский'. It is how they all heard it.
    So, definitely the name was Rumâni, and had nothing to do with 'Romani/Romi' (invariably called Tzigani by the Rumanians and all European peoples).
    It is true that the adoption of the appellation Romania for the new state had something to do with the Roman Empire. But Greeks were also using the name 'Romania' for the 'Byzantine' Empire, because they never thought of themselves other than 'Romani/Romei' and the Empire 'Roman'.
  50. @Cyrano
    I don’t think you have the necessary qualifications to play Racist in Chief when trying to sort out the differences between the Slavs. Let’s just say this about the southern Slavs: – don’t let the good looks fool you.

    « I don’t think you have the necessary qualifications ».

    We’ve met before?

    Where is it that I was

    « playing racist in chief »

    ?

    You are obviously an imbecile, to utter unwarrantex tatements as those.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Cyrano
    Racial differences among the Slavs are none of your business, as long as your western societies remain homo-genous. Because, remember - you are all equal.
  51. @LH

    Have seen some Czechs get cranked up about ‘Czechia’ because they feel it is less representative of the Bohemian-Moravian split in the country, than ‘Czech Republic’ – Moravians being under 15% of the total, a little too tiny to go full Slovak-separatist
     
    The reasons for unpopularity of the short form were linguistic, historical and psychological. The word Česko/Czechia felt artificial and ugly sounding. There was no single word for the Czech lands, also the Latin name Bohemia (after a Celtic tribe) collided with later Slavic names. Experience of absurd name disputes with the Slovaks in the 1990's helped to keep the long form. The fear of further breakdown of the country was real.


    Short name confusion was also present in German language, with Tschechei and Tschecheien variants. (Tschecheien won.)

    Czechy, the Polish name for Czechia, feels perfectly neutral – there is
    nothing pejorative about it. Interestingly, the name ‘Bohemia’ is almost
    never used in Polish.

    Poland’s original name is Lechia, after Lech – the mythical 9th
    century founder of the country. It’s still used occasionally by sports
    teams, and the like, and is still present in some languages, e.g.,
    Lenkija in Lithuanian, Lengyelorszag in Hungarian or Lehistan in
    Ottoman Turkish.

    Amusingly, Poland is now being exposed to a lot of Czech (and
    perhaps vice versa) because of the popular bilingual singer Ewa Farna
    who was born into the Polish minority in Czechia, and seems to be
    equally comfortable (i.e., accentless) in both Czech and Polish. She
    went from a skinny teenager when she had her first hit in 2006 to
    her present zoftig (as Johnny Carson would say) self which figured
    prominently in her latest hit ” Boky jako skrin” (Hips like a cupboard).
    To the Polish ear it’s surprising how many Czech phrases in that song
    sound close or almost identical to Polish (esp. if the lyrics appear on
    the screen)

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    I should add, before others beat me to it, that some historians derive the names
    Lenkija or Lehistan (Poland in Lithuanian or Ottoman Turkish, respectively)
    from the presumptive tribe of Lendians. As usual in such matters, the etymology
    is rather controversial, and cannot be reduced to a few sentences. Interestingly,
    in the earliest Latin chronicles Polska (Poland) typically appears as Polonia which
    is the term used to this day in Spanish and basically in French (Pologne).
    In contemporary Polish, Polonia refers to the Polish diaspora (about 15 million
    Polonians living outside of Poland, 10 million in the U.S.).
  52. @Anon 2
    Czechy, the Polish name for Czechia, feels perfectly neutral - there is
    nothing pejorative about it. Interestingly, the name 'Bohemia' is almost
    never used in Polish.

    Poland's original name is Lechia, after Lech - the mythical 9th
    century founder of the country. It's still used occasionally by sports
    teams, and the like, and is still present in some languages, e.g.,
    Lenkija in Lithuanian, Lengyelorszag in Hungarian or Lehistan in
    Ottoman Turkish.

    Amusingly, Poland is now being exposed to a lot of Czech (and
    perhaps vice versa) because of the popular bilingual singer Ewa Farna
    who was born into the Polish minority in Czechia, and seems to be
    equally comfortable (i.e., accentless) in both Czech and Polish. She
    went from a skinny teenager when she had her first hit in 2006 to
    her present zoftig (as Johnny Carson would say) self which figured
    prominently in her latest hit " Boky jako skrin" (Hips like a cupboard).
    To the Polish ear it's surprising how many Czech phrases in that song
    sound close or almost identical to Polish (esp. if the lyrics appear on
    the screen)

    I should add, before others beat me to it, that some historians derive the names
    Lenkija or Lehistan (Poland in Lithuanian or Ottoman Turkish, respectively)
    from the presumptive tribe of Lendians. As usual in such matters, the etymology
    is rather controversial, and cannot be reduced to a few sentences. Interestingly,
    in the earliest Latin chronicles Polska (Poland) typically appears as Polonia which
    is the term used to this day in Spanish and basically in French (Pologne).
    In contemporary Polish, Polonia refers to the Polish diaspora (about 15 million
    Polonians living outside of Poland, 10 million in the U.S.).

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
    Interesting. Thank you for these two instructive comments.
    , @Beckow
    Is it generally assumed in Poland that that the term 'Polska' is a derivative of 'pole'=field?

    In other words, the field-people or farmers. I have assumed that is the case and then I run into a linguist who claims that it is an ancient religious term. But there were also 'Polyane' in the area of today's Ukraine.

    The term 'Cech' also has few derivations, one I like is the 'highlander' (the original Czech tribe home base were the highlands immediately west of Prague). But there are a few other etymologies, incl. derived from 'singers or travelling entertainers'. The official one is of course the patriarch 'Cech', but that begs the question what was his name based on. Bohemia only refers to the western 2/3 of Czechia (the east is Moravia and has always been called that).

    The word Bohemia has the same root as Bayern (Bavaria). Based on that the hapless Vaclav Havel once claimed to Western visitors that Czechs were actually 'Celts'...
  53. @Anon 2
    I should add, before others beat me to it, that some historians derive the names
    Lenkija or Lehistan (Poland in Lithuanian or Ottoman Turkish, respectively)
    from the presumptive tribe of Lendians. As usual in such matters, the etymology
    is rather controversial, and cannot be reduced to a few sentences. Interestingly,
    in the earliest Latin chronicles Polska (Poland) typically appears as Polonia which
    is the term used to this day in Spanish and basically in French (Pologne).
    In contemporary Polish, Polonia refers to the Polish diaspora (about 15 million
    Polonians living outside of Poland, 10 million in the U.S.).

    Interesting. Thank you for these two instructive comments.

  54. @Rattus Norwegius
    "Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.
    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon."
    Some of those Bulgarian historical figures may have been Macedonian or predecessors of what would become Macedonia. Similarily too how Roman philosophers could be concieved of as predecessors of present day Italians. Whether you accept the name Macedonia is up to you. The Macedonians of today may be a seperate ethnic group as some of them claim or be a part of the Bulgarian nation, similar to how Bavarians are German.

    The South Slavs of the Balkans are descendants of both indiginous Balkan people preceding the Slavic migration aswell as Slavic migrants. Individuals from other genetic clusters have also joined the South Slavic genetic pot. Some of those indiginous Balkan people may have been Greeks and/or Macedonians. Most or some may descend from other indiginous Balkan people like Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, etc. Present day Fyrom is located primarily in the region of Paeonia. Therefore it may be more reasonable to assume that the greater part of Balkan admixture came from them rather than ancient Macedonians. When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonia_(kingdom)#Culture
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#Eastern_European

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.

    Well, it’s not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they’re descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren’t called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of “Russian” national identity.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Well, it’s not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they’re descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren’t called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of “Russian” national identity.
     
    Don't most Russian nationalists (and maybe Ukrainian ones?) dislike the Normanist theory, though?
    , @Rattus Norwegius
    The Finnish word for Sweden is 'ruotsi' which resembles the name of Russia in Finnish.
  55. @DFH

    It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.
     
    They probably are mostly the descendants of ancient Macedon in a genetic sense. Mainland Greece was at one time almost entirely Slavic speaking as well before it was turned back, so genetically I doubt there is much in it. To be honest, neither of them are really living up to their ancestors.

    Much of the Slavic population of Hellas was resettled in Anatolia by the Byzantines. At the same time diaspora Greeks settled Hellas proper. Part of the Slavic population of Hellas would also be assimilated into the orthodox Greek speaking population.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Minor_Slavs
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaveni#Relationship_between_the_Slavs_in_Byzantium

    “They probably are mostly the descendants of ancient Macedon in a genetic sense. ”
    That is just a guess. The core of Slavic Macedonia is now Paeonia. In the past Macedonia used to have a large Macedonian Slavic population. That population has declined atleast proportionally in the past century. It’s numbers were not comparable to that of Paeonian Slavo-Macedonians. Therefore i find it mor likely that Paeonia is, and always has been the core of what were to become Slavo-Macedonians.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Macedonia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_speakers_of_Greek_Macedonia

  56. Not directly related but Estonia’s attempt to rebrand itself as ‘Nordic’ is quite funny.

    I mean it’s fine. There may very well be some genuine historical/cultural link between Estonia and the Nordic group. What do I know.

    But some Estonians react sharply if you call their country ‘Baltic’, or heaven forbid, ‘ex-Soviet’.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Linguistically and ethnically, Estonians are closest to Finns. Finns themselves aren't as ethnically and linguistically close as the other Nordics are with each other.
  57. @Matra
    In Ireland;

    Northern Ireland v North of Ireland

    Protestants always say the former. Catholics used to insist on the latter but since the 1998 referendum when they formally recognised the Northern Ireland state (even if only temporarily) started to say the former more often, especially when in mixed company.

    Ulster v The Six Counties

    Because Protestants have so aggressively, and somewhat arrogantly, claimed the former the Catholics generally don't use it unless speaking about history or the local rugby team.

    Londonderry v Derry

    Protestants use both for the city and county fairly indiscriminately without much fuss but Catholics absolutely always say 'Derry' unless they work in an official capacity (eg. BBC news reader) then they must alternate between the two.

    British Isles v These Isles

    Protestants always say 'British isles' and think saying 'these isles' is retarded. Catholics usually say 'these isles' but probably don't really mind if a non-Irish person inserts the 'British' part as they know they're not likely trying to score political points.

    Even football v soccer has come up a few times with the more anal Catholics insisting on referring to the non-indigenous game as 'soccer' like they do in North America and Australia. Even most Catholics would roll their eyes at this.

    Half my family comes from Belfast and I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone say ‘these isles.’ Catholics/nationalists just avoid the whole ‘British Isles’ thing entirely. To us there’s Ireland and there’s Britain. No ‘British Isles.’

  58. All nationalists have idiocies. Hungarian nationalists be like:

    “We wuz Huns! We wuz Turks! We wuz Sumerians! We wuz Japanese! Slovaks don’t exist! Trianon worse than Holohoax! Puskas!”

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Ferenc Puskás, the football player?

    By the way, how would you evaluate Horthy?
  59. @Cyrano
    I don’t think you have the necessary qualifications to play Racist in Chief when trying to sort out the differences between the Slavs. Let’s just say this about the southern Slavs: – don’t let the good looks fool you.

    Southeastern Slavs are a mixed lot, as BTW is true with other Slavs. Some Bulgarians and Serbs look like they can pass for Turks, while others look quite Slavic.

  60. @reiner Tor
    All nationalists have idiocies. Hungarian nationalists be like:

    “We wuz Huns! We wuz Turks! We wuz Sumerians! We wuz Japanese! Slovaks don’t exist! Trianon worse than Holohoax! Puskas!”

    Ferenc Puskás, the football player?

    By the way, how would you evaluate Horthy?

  61. @Hanoodtroll
    Not directly related but Estonia's attempt to rebrand itself as 'Nordic' is quite funny.

    I mean it's fine. There may very well be some genuine historical/cultural link between Estonia and the Nordic group. What do I know.

    But some Estonians react sharply if you call their country 'Baltic', or heaven forbid, 'ex-Soviet'.

    Linguistically and ethnically, Estonians are closest to Finns. Finns themselves aren’t as ethnically and linguistically close as the other Nordics are with each other.

    • Replies: @Pericles

    Finns themselves aren’t as ethnically and linguistically close as the other Nordics are with each other.

     

    Except for the Swedish-speaking Finn population, not at all close. It is sort of possible as a Swedish-speaker to figure out Norwegian, Danish and even Icelandic (admittedly only with some luck) but Finnish is entirely different.
  62. Georgia complaing about being called gruzia and not Georgia is silly; the name conflicts with the us state and the British period in history. If they were to insist that everyone else called it Sakartvelo, now that would be fun.

    OT. They’ve just had an election over there where Saakashvili’s party was expecting to retake the presidency, but didn’t. If you follow Ben Aris’s twitter, you’d have seen Euro-atlanticist talking heads spitting feathers saying that Ivanashvilli was buying vites, which was probably true to some extent. There were a few street protests but not enough people gave a crap and they petered out. Anyway, they elected some woman who was promising to restore the monarchy. I suspect it’ll go the same way as Trump’s border wall, but if it doesn’t, it’ll be interesting to see as it would make them the first ex-commie state to do so.

    OOT: Pasinyan now has a super-supermajority in Armenia. The old republican party didn’t win a single seat. Nothing much seems to have come from this as yet though. I suspect the Yerevan 1% don’t really want to rock the boat and just wanted to be free from the humiliation of being ruled by karabakh hicks.

    • Replies: @Anon
    See, though, nobody outside the Slavic sphere of influence has ever heard of Gruzia, but we've all heard of Georgia and Georgians, and it sounds less bizarre to us though we probably pronounce it wrong. I suppose Georgia probably has closer connections with ex-Soviet places than with the rest of the world, so I guess the "Gruzia" thing will probably last a little longer.
  63. Blaming 30,000 Latvians for 80 years of utter policy failure in a country of 100+ million. Not homosexual at all.

    As for inferiority complex. It turns out that Sputnik/Pogrom daydreamer (I don’t know his name, the one who makes youtube videos and fancies himself cutting-edge of Russian nationalism) actually looks up to third rate intellectual charlatans, chodes, and fraudsters (Yudkowsky and LessWrong) as a source of ideological underpinnings for Russia’s future.

    Have fun being ruled by brood of early 90-ies St Petersburg city administration for the next 30 years. At least Ukrainians have a minor say in the future course of their country.

    The task of every mind is to comprehend reality accurately. But in Russia we are mostly interested in words and have little concern for reality. – Ivan Pavlov

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Ukrainians have as much say in their country as I do at the CIA. Get lost, troll.
  64. ‘…Ergo for Czechia low-peddling its transition from the Czech Republic. Czechia is simply more accurate. But they don’t mind if you beg to differ. Czechia is neither fake nor particularly gay, despite allowing LGBT partnerships…’

    Perhaps the criterion here is actually whether the state in question was part of Russia’s empire or part of someone else’s?

    I fail to see what is more ‘fake’ or ‘gay’ about Georgia or Lithuania than ‘Czechia.’ After all, the two former entities really do have histories as independent states in recent centuries; it’s debatable if any Czech state ever existed before 1918. On the other hand, it was Imperial Russia that absorbed Lithuania and Georgia; the Czechs were ruled by the Austrians.

  65. @Jaakko Raipala

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.
     
    Well, it's not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they're descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren't called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of "Russian" national identity.

    Well, it’s not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they’re descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren’t called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of “Russian” national identity.

    Don’t most Russian nationalists (and maybe Ukrainian ones?) dislike the Normanist theory, though?

    • Replies: @Anonymous lurker
    What's the "Normanist theory"?

    I thought it was fairly well-established that the people that came to call themselves Russians were chiefly East Slavs who lived in the Peipus-Ilmen-Onega-Ladoga region, together with Ingrian and Karelian Finnic peoples etc, who were already present in the northern reaches of their soon-to-be realm. Then, Scandinavians started moving in as well, around 500 AD, and they all kind of merged a bit, and the name "Rus" supposedly popped up at that stage.

    That the later Rurikid dynasty was more "fresh"/recent Scandi is well-attested too, but the genetic makeup of the population at large remained chiefly Slav.

    Anyway, Jaakko had a good point in regards to this - the Finnish word for Russia/Russian is venäjä-, cognate with the ancient Germanic "wends", i.e. the Slavs that lived along the southern Baltic coasts waaaaaay back. When they moved northeast and onward, they eventually ran into Finnic tribes, and therefore "venäjä" still lives on in Finnish and Estonian (vene) etc.

    As regards to Ukraine and them claiming to be the "real Russia" due to the "Kievan Rus", that's also fairly straightforwardly false in my eyes. By the time the Rus decided to expand southward and kick out the Khazars and God knows who else who inhabited the Kiev region, the old school Russian lands up north had been around for quite a while, centering on Novgorod.

    Anyway, I'll readily admit I'm out of my element when it comes to these things, but still I fail to see what part of this particular history is debatable enough as to have spawned competing "theories."

    , @Mikhail
    This matter is argued in degrees. There was a Viking influence in Rus, that included areas in modern day Russia and Ukraine. As was true with the Vikings who settled elsewhere, they were a minority in Rus, which gradually merged with the majority population.
  66. In Northern Ireland, catholics and protestants make a big deal about the naming of (London) derry.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derry-Londonderry_name_dispute

  67. Poland comes to mind.
    They are quite aggressively denying the German history of the formerly German parts of their country.

    So now we are in this weird situation that the famous German trade city of Danzig has to be called Gdansk, and that Breslau is now spelled Wrocław. It even has to be spelled with a weird letter that nobody has ever used before or knows how to pronounce.

    What is even stranger is that in my language, Dutch, we still use the German spelling for cities like Warschau and Krakau. Cities which have always been Polish. But Danzig, one of the most important trading ports for the Dutch, which was full of Dutch people and even has Dutch architecture, well that city suddenly has to be called by a different name after 800 years.

    Fake and Gay

    • Replies: @Blindspots of galactic proportions
    Russia comes to mind too.

    Königsberg - Kaliningrad.
    What about Petrograd (Germanized) - St. Petersburg - Leningrad - St. Petersburg transition?

    Poland denying German history? Sure.

    Here's Russian admiral of the Baltic Fleet (stationed in Königsberg) in the last few weeks:

    Igor Mukhametshin, the Vice Admiral in command of Russia's Baltic Fleet, was filmed telling officers and ratings that the Enlightenment thinker was a "traitor" who wrote "incomprehensible books" and begged for university tenure.

    "Kant was a person who betrayed his country, who humiliated himself and begged on his knees for a teaching chair at the university. He wrote some incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read," Admiral Mukhametshin said in a video obtained by local website Novy Kaliningrad and published on Youtube on Monday.

    , @Aixa
    Well, official website of city of Gdańsk calls the city in German: Danzig.
    But in English Gdansk

    Of course Unzerker was ignorant enough not to look at official website of the city.
    Instead he created some scary conspiracy theory.

    https://www.gdansk.pl/de/touristisch/touristeninformation,a,3028

    Occam's razor is that most foreigners (including journalists) do not know what Breslau / Danzig is and are unable to connect with cities Wroclaw and Gdansk in Poland.

    And when they visit Poland and Gdansk, they book flight directly to Gdansk Airport. And look for rooms in Gdansk's hotels. As most airlines do not tranlsate names of some local cities into dozens of languages .
    It is much simpler to use local official spelling.


    This is the same phenomenon as Brunswick becoming Braunschweig.
    These cities became too irrelevant to have their own name in other languages.
    Then people start using local names, as you can't remeber millions of cities and their names.

    Germans still use Danzig and Breslau becasue these cities are relevant enough for them to have easy spelling.

    But generally only Warsaw and Cracow stayed important enough to have and international name.
  68. @melanf

    We then pushed for “Romania” for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals “ruman”.
     
    In Russia, a country pronounced as "Romania" will be perceived as a country of Gypsies. To justify the connection with ancient Rome (in Russian), it is necessary to use the word Rim/Rimlane. But this idea (Romania=Ancient Rome) will naturally cause laughter.

    The official name of the country is “România”, the people are “Români”.
    The trouble for foreigners is not so much the alternance between Ru- and Ro-, but the pronunciation of â/î (a vowel existing only in Rumanian and Slavic languages (Russian ы).
    Ru/Ro has a historical reason. The name that the people used was ‘Rumâni’, the country was ‘Țara Rumânească’, or ‘Rumânie’. The name ‘România’ was adopted after the unification of the former Principalities of Moldova and Muntenia (Valahia or Țara Românească)
    The French, would call the new state ‘Roumanie’ and the people ‘Roumains’, the Germans ‘Rumänien’ and the people ‘Rumänen’, the English ‘Rumania’, ‘Rumanians’, the Russians ‘Румыния’, ‘румынский’. It is how they all heard it.
    So, definitely the name was Rumâni, and had nothing to do with ‘Romani/Romi’ (invariably called Tzigani by the Rumanians and all European peoples).
    It is true that the adoption of the appellation Romania for the new state had something to do with the Roman Empire. But Greeks were also using the name ‘Romania’ for the ‘Byzantine’ Empire, because they never thought of themselves other than ‘Romani/Romei’ and the Empire ‘Roman’.

  69. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    RELATED!

    I had a two-hour long argument with two people about "Ukrainian nationalism."

    I need help from Anatoly and the masses of this blog with these questions:

    I am looking for empirical historical/social answers to the following questions

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?
    2) Are “Russian-speaking” populations in eastern Ukraine the result of Stalinist forced population transfers? Or have they been there a good long while?
    3) Didn't Nikolai Gogol once say his soul was both Russian and Ukrainian? Are there any great Ukrainian poets and figures from the past who wouldn't agree with him?

    Perspectives from Ukrainian StormFags or rather more sensible lads like AP are welcome! Diversity is strength!

    As for 2: Ukraine is the amalgamation of the Russian possessions in the Region, put together for administrative reasons.

    The south and east of Ukraine together with Crimea used to be part of the Crimean Khanate and was conquered when Russia finally defeated the Tartars in the 18th century. These sparsely populated areas were subsequently colonized by settlers from the Russian Empire, including Ukrainians.

    So you have it backwards. The reason there are Ukrainians in the east and south is because the Ukrainians were part of the Russian Empire.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    A good portion of Crimea and much of the rest modern day Russian territory were part of Rus, which also compromised contemporary Ukraine and Belarus. All this was evident before the slave trading Crimean Tatar Khanate came on the scene.
  70. @Unzerker
    Poland comes to mind.
    They are quite aggressively denying the German history of the formerly German parts of their country.

    So now we are in this weird situation that the famous German trade city of Danzig has to be called Gdansk, and that Breslau is now spelled Wrocław. It even has to be spelled with a weird letter that nobody has ever used before or knows how to pronounce.

    What is even stranger is that in my language, Dutch, we still use the German spelling for cities like Warschau and Krakau. Cities which have always been Polish. But Danzig, one of the most important trading ports for the Dutch, which was full of Dutch people and even has Dutch architecture, well that city suddenly has to be called by a different name after 800 years.

    Fake and Gay

    Russia comes to mind too.

    Königsberg – Kaliningrad.
    What about Petrograd (Germanized) – St. Petersburg – Leningrad – St. Petersburg transition?

    Poland denying German history? Sure.

    Here’s Russian admiral of the Baltic Fleet (stationed in Königsberg) in the last few weeks:

    Igor Mukhametshin, the Vice Admiral in command of Russia’s Baltic Fleet, was filmed telling officers and ratings that the Enlightenment thinker was a “traitor” who wrote “incomprehensible books” and begged for university tenure.

    “Kant was a person who betrayed his country, who humiliated himself and begged on his knees for a teaching chair at the university. He wrote some incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read,” Admiral Mukhametshin said in a video obtained by local website Novy Kaliningrad and published on Youtube on Monday.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Are you a Polack?
    , @Seraphim
    Petrograd was the 'Russification' of Sankt Peterburg: "On 1 September 1914, after the outbreak of World War I, the Imperial government renamed the city Petrograd, meaning "Peter's City", to remove the German words Sankt and Burg".
    , @Dmitry

    incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read,” Admiral Mukhametshin
     
    So some stupid Tatar is complaining he cannot understand the books of one of history's most intelligent men.

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway. For example, reading this website for a year, and we've seen no evidence that anyone here e is close to being intelligent enough to discuss Kant.

    Kant's never going to develop some mass popularity for winning many naming competitions outside his nationality, when only a smallish fraction (even among his own nationality) would ever be clever enough to understand him.

  71. @Unzerker
    As for 2: Ukraine is the amalgamation of the Russian possessions in the Region, put together for administrative reasons.

    The south and east of Ukraine together with Crimea used to be part of the Crimean Khanate and was conquered when Russia finally defeated the Tartars in the 18th century. These sparsely populated areas were subsequently colonized by settlers from the Russian Empire, including Ukrainians.

    So you have it backwards. The reason there are Ukrainians in the east and south is because the Ukrainians were part of the Russian Empire.

    A good portion of Crimea and much of the rest modern day Russian territory were part of Rus, which also compromised contemporary Ukraine and Belarus. All this was evident before the slave trading Crimean Tatar Khanate came on the scene.

  72. @Blindspots of galactic proportions
    Russia comes to mind too.

    Königsberg - Kaliningrad.
    What about Petrograd (Germanized) - St. Petersburg - Leningrad - St. Petersburg transition?

    Poland denying German history? Sure.

    Here's Russian admiral of the Baltic Fleet (stationed in Königsberg) in the last few weeks:

    Igor Mukhametshin, the Vice Admiral in command of Russia's Baltic Fleet, was filmed telling officers and ratings that the Enlightenment thinker was a "traitor" who wrote "incomprehensible books" and begged for university tenure.

    "Kant was a person who betrayed his country, who humiliated himself and begged on his knees for a teaching chair at the university. He wrote some incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read," Admiral Mukhametshin said in a video obtained by local website Novy Kaliningrad and published on Youtube on Monday.

    Are you a Polack?

    • Replies: @Blindspots of galactic proportions
    No. Just pointing out obvious blind spots.

    I got St. Petersburg naming order wrong thought.

    Sankt-Peterburg -> Petrograd-> Leningrad -> Sankt-Peterburg

    This transition (Karlin will probably blame Jews and Latvians for it) seems to me 1000x more queer than Ukrainians dropping -petrovsk from Dnipro.

  73. @Philip Owen
    Mumbai. British Indians still pointedly refer to it as Bombay. Indeed, the local High Court is still called Bombay Court, lawyers being conservative and tricky.

    "The Ukraine" is grammatically correct as the translation of Ukrania is March, a borderland where inhabitants have rights to bear arms. March is preceded by a definite article. The Welsh Marches, The Roussilon March, The Brandenburg Mark. There is an exception with the early Anglish Kingdom of Mercia, the name being an early form of March.

    Ukraine is only correct insofaras the Ukrainian government has requested that it is so called in official correspondence.

    Mumbai. British Indians still pointedly refer to it as Bombay

    Arrogant. British South Africans are certainly not still referring to Gauteng as Transvaal

    It helps though that the African government is relatively sensible on these matters (as opposed to the imbeciles in Kiev)- as in English is the dominant, official language and it’s not as if places as Cape Town are going to Africanise their name

  74. @Hyperborean

    Well, it’s not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they’re descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren’t called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of “Russian” national identity.
     
    Don't most Russian nationalists (and maybe Ukrainian ones?) dislike the Normanist theory, though?

    What’s the “Normanist theory”?

    I thought it was fairly well-established that the people that came to call themselves Russians were chiefly East Slavs who lived in the Peipus-Ilmen-Onega-Ladoga region, together with Ingrian and Karelian Finnic peoples etc, who were already present in the northern reaches of their soon-to-be realm. Then, Scandinavians started moving in as well, around 500 AD, and they all kind of merged a bit, and the name “Rus” supposedly popped up at that stage.

    That the later Rurikid dynasty was more “fresh”/recent Scandi is well-attested too, but the genetic makeup of the population at large remained chiefly Slav.

    Anyway, Jaakko had a good point in regards to this – the Finnish word for Russia/Russian is venäjä-, cognate with the ancient Germanic “wends”, i.e. the Slavs that lived along the southern Baltic coasts waaaaaay back. When they moved northeast and onward, they eventually ran into Finnic tribes, and therefore “venäjä” still lives on in Finnish and Estonian (vene) etc.

    As regards to Ukraine and them claiming to be the “real Russia” due to the “Kievan Rus”, that’s also fairly straightforwardly false in my eyes. By the time the Rus decided to expand southward and kick out the Khazars and God knows who else who inhabited the Kiev region, the old school Russian lands up north had been around for quite a while, centering on Novgorod.

    Anyway, I’ll readily admit I’m out of my element when it comes to these things, but still I fail to see what part of this particular history is debatable enough as to have spawned competing “theories.”

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Then, Scandinavians started moving in as well, around 500 AD, and they all kind of merged a bit, and the name “Rus” supposedly popped up at that stage.

    That the later Rurikid dynasty was more “fresh”/recent Scandi is well-attested too, but the genetic makeup of the population at large remained chiefly Slav.
     
    I think this is basically the Normanist theory. The debate seems mainly to center on whether and to what extent the aristocracy was Germanic.

    Of course, like with so many things, this is probably not really what people are actually arguing about.
    , @Lars Porsena
    There are theories (I happen to think it is a good one) that these old terms are political, not ethnic. Much like the horde armies from the east were comprised of all sorts of ethnic tribes banded together under some great leader. The idea would be that originally, a group like the Rus were not a tribe but an alliance or a gang, like the bloods or the crips or the latin kings. So they would have had recruits or members (nobles) from different ethnic clans, slavic, baltic, uralic, and norse, and whatever else was around.

    I have seen someone in comments on this website link to a translation of what supposed to be one of the oldest Old Church Slavonic documents, it was a long time ago, but I do remember that it included a list of attendees to some Kievan Rus thing, and the names listed included noticeably slavic, germanic and (I would guess) Finnish names already in their oldest texts.

    Sort of like the contemporary Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne neighboring them, it was not based around an ethnic type or single culture but an international military/political order. The HRE under Charlemagne originally included all the French, benelux lowlanders, and northern Italians in addition to the Germans, and one of the original 5 elector states that voted, best 3 out of 5, for the holy roman emporer was a slavic state that later named itself after a brand of bananas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFDOI24RRAE
  75. @Hyperborean

    Well, it’s not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they’re descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren’t called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of “Russian” national identity.
     
    Don't most Russian nationalists (and maybe Ukrainian ones?) dislike the Normanist theory, though?

    This matter is argued in degrees. There was a Viking influence in Rus, that included areas in modern day Russia and Ukraine. As was true with the Vikings who settled elsewhere, they were a minority in Rus, which gradually merged with the majority population.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    There was a Viking influence in Rus, that included areas in modern day Russia and Ukraine.
     
    The influence went both ways. For example, Swedish has borrowed the words 'tolk' and 'torg' from Slavic -- translation and trade, respectively. Norse sagas mention 'poluta', which is borrowed from the Slavic word that denotes a medieval form of taxation. The borrowings imply civilization (or at least the monetary parts of it) went the other way, from Slavs to Norse.
  76. @Hyperborean
    Are you a Polack?

    No. Just pointing out obvious blind spots.

    I got St. Petersburg naming order wrong thought.

    Sankt-Peterburg -> Petrograd-> Leningrad -> Sankt-Peterburg

    This transition (Karlin will probably blame Jews and Latvians for it) seems to me 1000x more queer than Ukrainians dropping -petrovsk from Dnipro.

  77. @Anonymous lurker
    What's the "Normanist theory"?

    I thought it was fairly well-established that the people that came to call themselves Russians were chiefly East Slavs who lived in the Peipus-Ilmen-Onega-Ladoga region, together with Ingrian and Karelian Finnic peoples etc, who were already present in the northern reaches of their soon-to-be realm. Then, Scandinavians started moving in as well, around 500 AD, and they all kind of merged a bit, and the name "Rus" supposedly popped up at that stage.

    That the later Rurikid dynasty was more "fresh"/recent Scandi is well-attested too, but the genetic makeup of the population at large remained chiefly Slav.

    Anyway, Jaakko had a good point in regards to this - the Finnish word for Russia/Russian is venäjä-, cognate with the ancient Germanic "wends", i.e. the Slavs that lived along the southern Baltic coasts waaaaaay back. When they moved northeast and onward, they eventually ran into Finnic tribes, and therefore "venäjä" still lives on in Finnish and Estonian (vene) etc.

    As regards to Ukraine and them claiming to be the "real Russia" due to the "Kievan Rus", that's also fairly straightforwardly false in my eyes. By the time the Rus decided to expand southward and kick out the Khazars and God knows who else who inhabited the Kiev region, the old school Russian lands up north had been around for quite a while, centering on Novgorod.

    Anyway, I'll readily admit I'm out of my element when it comes to these things, but still I fail to see what part of this particular history is debatable enough as to have spawned competing "theories."

    Then, Scandinavians started moving in as well, around 500 AD, and they all kind of merged a bit, and the name “Rus” supposedly popped up at that stage.

    That the later Rurikid dynasty was more “fresh”/recent Scandi is well-attested too, but the genetic makeup of the population at large remained chiefly Slav.

    I think this is basically the Normanist theory. The debate seems mainly to center on whether and to what extent the aristocracy was Germanic.

    Of course, like with so many things, this is probably not really what people are actually arguing about.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    The Baltic Sea was not Scandi Sea from 9th to 12th century. Stockholm was burnt to the ground as late as 13th century by Osselians.
    Slavs and Balts were top dogs - the Danes suffered greatly at the hands of Wends, for example Roskilde and Konungahela.
    Mare Rugianorum, after all.
    Primary sources indicate that the Jomsvikings were majority Slavs and shed a lot of light on that period, authors like Adam of Bremen and Saxo Grammaticus.
    What amuses me most is that modern history still insists that Rani/Rujani from Rugia island are not the same as Rugii from older times. Or that Vandals, Venedi and Wends are not the same thing.
    But I guess that admitting even a little crack would soon bring down the whole nonsense of "East Germanic" tribes like Lugii vanishing at the same time Slavs exploding in those same areas during "migration period".

    Normanist theory and practically the entire Viking narrative is a joke when archeology is taken into account. During the period of Rus' founding, Sweden was hopelessly outclassed in (man)power by both Danes and Slavs+Balts. Also, the description of "Rus" "Swedes" is in stark contrast to descriptions of Danes and Norwegians during the same period.

  78. Pakistan…a fake but definitely not gay country.

  79. @Mikhail
    This matter is argued in degrees. There was a Viking influence in Rus, that included areas in modern day Russia and Ukraine. As was true with the Vikings who settled elsewhere, they were a minority in Rus, which gradually merged with the majority population.

    There was a Viking influence in Rus, that included areas in modern day Russia and Ukraine.

    The influence went both ways. For example, Swedish has borrowed the words ‘tolk’ and ‘torg’ from Slavic — translation and trade, respectively. Norse sagas mention ‘poluta’, which is borrowed from the Slavic word that denotes a medieval form of taxation. The borrowings imply civilization (or at least the monetary parts of it) went the other way, from Slavs to Norse.

  80. All this shit is so stupid…

  81. Speaking of fake and gay countries, I think we need to discuss the emerging conflict between Russia and Belarus. Kremlin is phasing out oil subsidies for Belarus, and Lukashenka is going nuts about it.

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.
     
    Long-term perspective, of course it will. All these fake ex-Soviet non-countries were created to be an anti-Russian nuisance in the first place. It's literally the only reason they exist.
    , @Gerard2

    Speaking of fake and gay countries, I think we need to discuss the emerging conflict between Russia and Belarus. Kremlin is phasing out oil subsidies for Belarus, and Lukashenka is going nuts about it.

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.
     
    No chance at all. There have been about 50 million disputes between Russia and Belarus...over pork, milk products, gas, defense...nothing dramatic....everything will remain the same.
    Nothing wrong with Belarus making itself visa-free to EU countries, and importantly Belarus economically is progressing fine....with it's growth far exceeding Ukraine's low,fake and gay growth
    , @Swarthy Greek
    Belarus is too small and isolated to survive on its own. Lukashenka will be brought down to hill in due time.
  82. @Felix Keverich
    Speaking of fake and gay countries, I think we need to discuss the emerging conflict between Russia and Belarus. Kremlin is phasing out oil subsidies for Belarus, and Lukashenka is going nuts about it.

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.

    Long-term perspective, of course it will. All these fake ex-Soviet non-countries were created to be an anti-Russian nuisance in the first place. It’s literally the only reason they exist.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Meanwhile:

    https://twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1074634852287373312

    Have to agree with Ukrainian propaganda account here. The Kremlin is either delusional, or too embarrassed to admit its epic failure in the Ukraine.
  83. @anon
    See also: the good people of Scotland, who have strong feelings about the word "scotch". "Fake and gay" covers it pretty well.

    It’s a result, I suspect, of schoolteacher propaganda. I remember my father’s contempt for what he called Nineteenth Century Schoolteacher Nationalism.

    I don’t know any Scots who give a hoot about “Scotch” but no doubt some exist. Prats!

    • Replies: @anon
    Oh, they exist alright. "That's the drink, not the people!", I have heard many times.

    Reading the wikipedia article - clearly written by one of those 19th c. schoolmarms - I think your father might have been on to something:

    ...in 1872 the Scottish school system was initially placed under a "Scotch Education Department" with offices in London. In 1918, as a result of objections from within Scotland, the department was moved to Edinburgh and renamed the Scottish Education Department.
     
    Sounds like a confection of proto-SJW teachers who needed to justify their dislike of their English superiors. Accusing them of being tone-deaf and offensive probably helped get the office moved back up north. The very next paragraph:

    John Kenneth Galbraith in his book The Scotch... documents how the descendants of 19th century pioneers from Scotland... affectionately referred to themselves as Scotch.
     
    Even granting that the Scottish were sincere, that's a remarkably short turnaround from "perfectly normal" to "deeply offensive". "Fake", and, of course, "gay".
  84. @anonymous coward

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.
     
    Long-term perspective, of course it will. All these fake ex-Soviet non-countries were created to be an anti-Russian nuisance in the first place. It's literally the only reason they exist.

    Meanwhile:

    Have to agree with Ukrainian propaganda account here. The Kremlin is either delusional, or too embarrassed to admit its epic failure in the Ukraine.

    • Replies: @melanf

    denial over the collapse of Russian influence in Ukraine thanks to Putin's war:
     
    Influence could not collapsed, because there was no influence.
    , @reiner Tor
    Without the DLNR Ukraine could actually join NATO. As long as it has a territorial dispute, it cannot.

    So that’s why the Kremlin is not interested in peace.
    , @Gerard2

    Have to agree with Ukrainian propaganda account here. The Kremlin is either delusional, or too embarrassed to admit its epic failure in the Ukraine.
     
    Utter defeatist garbage. Ukraine is as Russian as ever, and with zero hope of joining the EU. Economy non-existant, mass emigration, much increased crime and health and infrastructure problems now compared to before the coup

    Russia is a million times more democratic than Ukraine and since the maidan "revolution"..this disparatity has only rapidly increased, on all business, health and economic measure Russia is far exceeding Ukraine after Maidan.

    Did you also read the stat where the prison population of Russia has gone down from 600000 in 2013 to 480000 now? Or the murder rate is now 8/1000000 ( still a long way to go to European levels , but in a few of the main cities it is at European levels, and it is not too long ago that it was 30 per 100k ( be under no illusion that the Yeltsin era they criminally underestimated the already sky-high murder rates)

    If the US/EU chooses to let a country's elites f**k itself up as part of an anti-Russian project, that's not Russia's fault.

    Ukraine is solely viewed and used by the west as an "anti-Russia" nothing else....it's entire future in all spheres will rest now more on Russia then even before

    ....and all their main music groups will be in Russia over the New Year series of concerts , desperate to earn from their biggest fan base
  85. @Felix Keverich
    Speaking of fake and gay countries, I think we need to discuss the emerging conflict between Russia and Belarus. Kremlin is phasing out oil subsidies for Belarus, and Lukashenka is going nuts about it.

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.

    Speaking of fake and gay countries, I think we need to discuss the emerging conflict between Russia and Belarus. Kremlin is phasing out oil subsidies for Belarus, and Lukashenka is going nuts about it.

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.

    No chance at all. There have been about 50 million disputes between Russia and Belarus…over pork, milk products, gas, defense…nothing dramatic….everything will remain the same.
    Nothing wrong with Belarus making itself visa-free to EU countries, and importantly Belarus economically is progressing fine….with it’s growth far exceeding Ukraine’s low,fake and gay growth

  86. @Anarcho-Supremacist
    Fuck I get offended that the piece of shit place calls its self Georgia. The Dixieland State of Georgia has been around legally longer then that gay land.

    And for you yankee fucktards its western Virginia not "West Virginia". Of course in all honesty eastern part of Virginia might as well be called Cucked Virginia at this point.

    Most West Virginians proudly wave the Confederate flags AND call their state West Virginia

    I think I’ll side with this guy over you

    • Replies: @DFH

    Most West Virginians proudly wave the Confederate flags
     
    Isn't that strange since the defining feature of their existence was not being in the Confederacy?
  87. @Felix Keverich
    Meanwhile:

    https://twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1074634852287373312

    Have to agree with Ukrainian propaganda account here. The Kremlin is either delusional, or too embarrassed to admit its epic failure in the Ukraine.

    denial over the collapse of Russian influence in Ukraine thanks to Putin’s war:

    Influence could not collapsed, because there was no influence.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered "little brother" of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc...

    I'm old enough to remember when Russian political leaders could visit Kiev without risking arrest or assasination. :)
  88. @Blindspots of galactic proportions
    Blaming 30,000 Latvians for 80 years of utter policy failure in a country of 100+ million. Not homosexual at all.

    As for inferiority complex. It turns out that Sputnik/Pogrom daydreamer (I don't know his name, the one who makes youtube videos and fancies himself cutting-edge of Russian nationalism) actually looks up to third rate intellectual charlatans, chodes, and fraudsters (Yudkowsky and LessWrong) as a source of ideological underpinnings for Russia's future.

    Have fun being ruled by brood of early 90-ies St Petersburg city administration for the next 30 years. At least Ukrainians have a minor say in the future course of their country.


    The task of every mind is to comprehend reality accurately. But in Russia we are mostly interested in words and have little concern for reality. - Ivan Pavlov

    Ukrainians have as much say in their country as I do at the CIA. Get lost, troll.

  89. @Felix Keverich
    Meanwhile:

    https://twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1074634852287373312

    Have to agree with Ukrainian propaganda account here. The Kremlin is either delusional, or too embarrassed to admit its epic failure in the Ukraine.

    Without the DLNR Ukraine could actually join NATO. As long as it has a territorial dispute, it cannot.

    So that’s why the Kremlin is not interested in peace.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    Kremlin is not interested in peace.
     
    If "peace" means NATO troops and American nuclear missiles stationed near Kharkov, then who the fuck needs this peace? lol

    Everybody wants peace, but they want it on their terms. Though you have a point: Ukrainians need peace and normal relations with Russia a lot more, then Russia does.

    Common sense suggests that Ukrainians should be making moves to appease Russia, to buy peace for their poor country, yet the opposite is happening.

    , @AnonFromTN
    If NATO wants to commit suicide, it should accept Ukraine. LDNR is not relevant here, what matters is the state of Ukraine. It could have been a country, alas. If it were, it wouldn’t need any NATO. But its “leaders” (all of them since 1991; Porky is a thief first and foremost, but so were Kravchuk, Kuchma, Yushchenko, and Yanukovich) cared about lining their pockets and did not give a hoot about the country. Hence we have what we have.
    , @Jon0815

    Without the DLNR Ukraine could actually join NATO. As long as it has a territorial dispute, it cannot. So that’s why the Kremlin is not interested in peace.

     

    The territorial dispute would still exist, unless Kiev also recognized the DLNR, which presumably it wouldn't. So this is not a valid reason for non-recognition.
  90. @Hyperborean

    Then, Scandinavians started moving in as well, around 500 AD, and they all kind of merged a bit, and the name “Rus” supposedly popped up at that stage.

    That the later Rurikid dynasty was more “fresh”/recent Scandi is well-attested too, but the genetic makeup of the population at large remained chiefly Slav.
     
    I think this is basically the Normanist theory. The debate seems mainly to center on whether and to what extent the aristocracy was Germanic.

    Of course, like with so many things, this is probably not really what people are actually arguing about.

    The Baltic Sea was not Scandi Sea from 9th to 12th century. Stockholm was burnt to the ground as late as 13th century by Osselians.
    Slavs and Balts were top dogs – the Danes suffered greatly at the hands of Wends, for example Roskilde and Konungahela.
    Mare Rugianorum, after all.
    Primary sources indicate that the Jomsvikings were majority Slavs and shed a lot of light on that period, authors like Adam of Bremen and Saxo Grammaticus.
    What amuses me most is that modern history still insists that Rani/Rujani from Rugia island are not the same as Rugii from older times. Or that Vandals, Venedi and Wends are not the same thing.
    But I guess that admitting even a little crack would soon bring down the whole nonsense of “East Germanic” tribes like Lugii vanishing at the same time Slavs exploding in those same areas during “migration period”.

    Normanist theory and practically the entire Viking narrative is a joke when archeology is taken into account. During the period of Rus’ founding, Sweden was hopelessly outclassed in (man)power by both Danes and Slavs+Balts. Also, the description of “Rus” “Swedes” is in stark contrast to descriptions of Danes and Norwegians during the same period.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    I won't debate this as I don't particularly care about the topic either way, I am just saying that is what the people who write books and essays argue about.
    , @AP
    Genetics have laid these claims to rest. The Rurikids originated in Sweden:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rurikid/about/background

    http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mozhayski/genealogy/teksty/ydna.html

    "thanks to this, i.e. Rurikid project, we can now say that Rurik was a historical person who was born on the Roslagen seashore (slightly north of Stockholm, Sweden). However, he was of Finno-Ugrian descent (haplogroup N1c1 (earlier described as N3a)). Although all of well matching N1c1 Rurikid princes are descended from Yaroslav Mudry (978 – 1054), it seems that his ancestors including Rurik (b. ab. 820 – 876) himself, also belonged to this haplogroup. A group of Swedes, whose ancestors lived in or close to Uppsala, and whose genetic haplotypes are very close to these of the Rurikids, seems to be confirming the theory that Rurik, in fact, originated from Sweden."
  91. @melanf

    denial over the collapse of Russian influence in Ukraine thanks to Putin's war:
     
    Influence could not collapsed, because there was no influence.

    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered “little brother” of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc…

    I’m old enough to remember when Russian political leaders could visit Kiev without risking arrest or assasination. 🙂

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    That's not "influence", that's Stockholm Syndrome and giving in to terrorist demands.

    The so-called "Ukraine" shouldn't exist at all. Russian political leaders visiting Kiev and pretending it is a real country is a farce and a travesty.
    , @melanf

    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered “little brother” of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc…
     
    This all remained in the past in 1991. Ukraine's policy has not changed at all since then.
    , @Gerard2

    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered “little brother” of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc…

    I’m old enough to remember when Russian political leaders could visit Kiev without risking arrest or assasination.

     

    Ok, fair points..but despite mass attempts and lots of money and legislation thrown to undermime it....the Russian language is still going strong there, albeit with Ukrainian now slightly more widespread, the Church issue has a long way to go and may undermime Ukrop authorities more then help it

    On the little brother issue.........how can this be changed when the fundamentals of most families in both countries having relatives from the other? Those things are always much stronger then some US-puppet state controlled authorities actions . We had the ridiculous case now where the Russian chief at Interpol is a "Ukrainian" educated in Kiev, with a brother who works for........the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry!
    We could easily be in a situation where the next President of Russia or PM is an "Ukrainian"....and the next (well, not for the elections next year but after that) President of Ukraine is a Russian ( though they will first have to get out the jewish Pres/PM dupoly currently at the top in Kiev..and then after that , any Gruzians)
  92. You are forgetting the tens of millions of Indians who moved from Bombay to Mumbai (and not one sent me a change of address card)

    Oddly enough, both the Indians moving from Bombay and the Chinese moving from Peking left their ducks behind.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Peking%20duck
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Bombay%20duck

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Oddly enough, both the Indians moving from Bombay and the Chinese moving from Peking left their ducks behind.
     
    Chinese are not too bothered by it. Peking University (part of China's 'Ivy League') still uses the old spelling.
  93. @reiner Tor
    Without the DLNR Ukraine could actually join NATO. As long as it has a territorial dispute, it cannot.

    So that’s why the Kremlin is not interested in peace.

    Kremlin is not interested in peace.

    If “peace” means NATO troops and American nuclear missiles stationed near Kharkov, then who the fuck needs this peace? lol

    Everybody wants peace, but they want it on their terms. Though you have a point: Ukrainians need peace and normal relations with Russia a lot more, then Russia does.

    Common sense suggests that Ukrainians should be making moves to appease Russia, to buy peace for their poor country, yet the opposite is happening.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN

    Ukrainians need peace and normal relations with Russia a lot more then Russia does.
     
    You hit the nail on the head. Ukies like to say that Russia lost Ukraine. Thing is, when someone cuts off your hand, you sure lost something, but isn’t the loss for your hand much greater than for you? But Ukies would never acknowledge the reality, as it is too unflattering for their pipe dream.
  94. @Bill Jones
    You are forgetting the tens of millions of Indians who moved from Bombay to Mumbai (and not one sent me a change of address card)

    Oddly enough, both the Indians moving from Bombay and the Chinese moving from Peking left their ducks behind.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Peking%20duck
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Bombay%20duck

    Oddly enough, both the Indians moving from Bombay and the Chinese moving from Peking left their ducks behind.

    Chinese are not too bothered by it. Peking University (part of China’s ‘Ivy League’) still uses the old spelling.

  95. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Most West Virginians proudly wave the Confederate flags AND call their state West Virginia

    I think I'll side with this guy over you

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5c/d6/c2/5cd6c26a04d8ecaf88b6ceeb84ef7709.jpg

    Most West Virginians proudly wave the Confederate flags

    Isn’t that strange since the defining feature of their existence was not being in the Confederacy?

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Yes, it’s strange!

    However, it makes sense when you think about it.

    There was not just one South, but many Souths.

    Western Virginia was always far more populist than Tidewater Virginia. In the 1830s, there was a constitutional debate in Virginia, with the westerners calling for voting rights based less on slavery. The Shenandoah and upper Piedmont counties were also more populist, and less plantation-based, but still had lots of small slaveholders.

    West Virginia’s secession from Virginia would never have happened if the Ohio River counties and other mountainous areas had not long felt disenfranchised in Richmond.

    All this to say, the Confederate flag is a symbol of populism these days, so people whose ancestors fought in the Union armies now wave it. I live near Gettysburg, of all places, and virtually all people here come from families that fought in the Union army. But there are Confederate flags all over the rural North these days. Again, it’s become a symbol of general white populism.

    Also, keep in mind that much of what is now West Virginia voted for secession from the Union in 1861. Only the Ohio River counties, whose economy was more tied in with the Midwest, were staunchly pro-Union at that time. Again, even those areas of West Virginia that fought with Robert E. Lee still were different from the Virginia east of the Allegheny Front.

    http://mcimaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/1861-Secession-1024x791.png

    , @Thorfinnsson
    I think it's strange, but they don't. The Confederate flag has expanded from becoming merely a Confederate symbol to being a "country" (or redneck) symbol.

    I've seen snowmobiles up here with Confederate flags for instance. There's a house a few blocks away which flies and American flag, a Confederate flag, and a Green Bay Packers (American football team) flag.

    Three flags over Wisconsin...
  96. @Epigon
    The Baltic Sea was not Scandi Sea from 9th to 12th century. Stockholm was burnt to the ground as late as 13th century by Osselians.
    Slavs and Balts were top dogs - the Danes suffered greatly at the hands of Wends, for example Roskilde and Konungahela.
    Mare Rugianorum, after all.
    Primary sources indicate that the Jomsvikings were majority Slavs and shed a lot of light on that period, authors like Adam of Bremen and Saxo Grammaticus.
    What amuses me most is that modern history still insists that Rani/Rujani from Rugia island are not the same as Rugii from older times. Or that Vandals, Venedi and Wends are not the same thing.
    But I guess that admitting even a little crack would soon bring down the whole nonsense of "East Germanic" tribes like Lugii vanishing at the same time Slavs exploding in those same areas during "migration period".

    Normanist theory and practically the entire Viking narrative is a joke when archeology is taken into account. During the period of Rus' founding, Sweden was hopelessly outclassed in (man)power by both Danes and Slavs+Balts. Also, the description of "Rus" "Swedes" is in stark contrast to descriptions of Danes and Norwegians during the same period.

    I won’t debate this as I don’t particularly care about the topic either way, I am just saying that is what the people who write books and essays argue about.

  97. For instance, precisely nobody in The Netherlands – to the best of my knowledge – cares in the least about having an article appended to their name in English…

    This has always annoyed me. Ukrainians speak a language without articles and have no business telling people who speak English where to put an article. Lots of countries use articles in front of their name. In Hebrew, it is הגליל, “the Galilee,” a prosaic designation of an area. The British used to have a poetic name for Argentina, “the Argentine” and “the Ukraine” is a name meaning something like the borderlands or “the Marches” because the Slavic root is край meaning edge or border. In some senses it is also poetic, at least in English, and to me hearkens back to the history of the area when it was a free-for-all frontier. When English speakers say “Ukraine” it always seems to me like they are speaking in the quintessential Slavic accent without articles, e.g., “I put book on table,” or “must kill moose and squirrel.” Understandable yes, but silly sounding.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    '...When English speakers say “Ukraine” it always seems to me like they are speaking in the quintessential Slavic accent without articles, e.g., “I put book on table,” or “must kill moose and squirrel.” ...'

    Exactly. In English, the expression is 'the Ukraine.' The usage makes no comment on the political status of the area in question.
  98. @Felix Keverich
    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered "little brother" of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc...

    I'm old enough to remember when Russian political leaders could visit Kiev without risking arrest or assasination. :)

    That’s not “influence”, that’s Stockholm Syndrome and giving in to terrorist demands.

    The so-called “Ukraine” shouldn’t exist at all. Russian political leaders visiting Kiev and pretending it is a real country is a farce and a travesty.

    • Agree: Melotte 22
  99. @Jaakko Raipala

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.
     
    Well, it's not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they're descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren't called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of "Russian" national identity.

    The Finnish word for Sweden is ‘ruotsi’ which resembles the name of Russia in Finnish.

  100. @Felix Keverich
    Meanwhile:

    https://twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1074634852287373312

    Have to agree with Ukrainian propaganda account here. The Kremlin is either delusional, or too embarrassed to admit its epic failure in the Ukraine.

    Have to agree with Ukrainian propaganda account here. The Kremlin is either delusional, or too embarrassed to admit its epic failure in the Ukraine.

    Utter defeatist garbage. Ukraine is as Russian as ever, and with zero hope of joining the EU. Economy non-existant, mass emigration, much increased crime and health and infrastructure problems now compared to before the coup

    Russia is a million times more democratic than Ukraine and since the maidan “revolution”..this disparatity has only rapidly increased, on all business, health and economic measure Russia is far exceeding Ukraine after Maidan.

    Did you also read the stat where the prison population of Russia has gone down from 600000 in 2013 to 480000 now? Or the murder rate is now 8/1000000 ( still a long way to go to European levels , but in a few of the main cities it is at European levels, and it is not too long ago that it was 30 per 100k ( be under no illusion that the Yeltsin era they criminally underestimated the already sky-high murder rates)

    If the US/EU chooses to let a country’s elites f**k itself up as part of an anti-Russian project, that’s not Russia’s fault.

    Ukraine is solely viewed and used by the west as an “anti-Russia” nothing else….it’s entire future in all spheres will rest now more on Russia then even before

    ….and all their main music groups will be in Russia over the New Year series of concerts , desperate to earn from their biggest fan base

  101. @Felix Keverich
    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered "little brother" of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc...

    I'm old enough to remember when Russian political leaders could visit Kiev without risking arrest or assasination. :)

    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered “little brother” of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc…

    This all remained in the past in 1991. Ukraine’s policy has not changed at all since then.

  102. @Turgot
    Lithuania is fake because it's a typical country created in 19. century based only on ethnic background and works of art, a country created by journalists, freemasons, professors, philologists, poets and such

    What other basis for a country is there?

    • Replies: @Turgot
    In my view it's largely a test of time and having deep historical roots. Lithuania has less political historical roots than the USA. And there also has to be some kind of spontaneity in creating a country instead of artificially creating it. USA is another good examlld
  103. @Felix Keverich
    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered "little brother" of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc...

    I'm old enough to remember when Russian political leaders could visit Kiev without risking arrest or assasination. :)

    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered “little brother” of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc…

    I’m old enough to remember when Russian political leaders could visit Kiev without risking arrest or assasination.

    Ok, fair points..but despite mass attempts and lots of money and legislation thrown to undermime it….the Russian language is still going strong there, albeit with Ukrainian now slightly more widespread, the Church issue has a long way to go and may undermime Ukrop authorities more then help it

    On the little brother issue………how can this be changed when the fundamentals of most families in both countries having relatives from the other? Those things are always much stronger then some US-puppet state controlled authorities actions . We had the ridiculous case now where the Russian chief at Interpol is a “Ukrainian” educated in Kiev, with a brother who works for……..the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry!
    We could easily be in a situation where the next President of Russia or PM is an “Ukrainian”….and the next (well, not for the elections next year but after that) President of Ukraine is a Russian ( though they will first have to get out the jewish Pres/PM dupoly currently at the top in Kiev..and then after that , any Gruzians)

  104. All you bickering morons and pieces of shit deserve to be trapped in a room and be gassed/suffocated to death or be blown up. How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe. In fact, if I did not know better, I suspect Karlin is an agent paid for by the West precisely to stir things up and promote discord among Euro nationalists with posts like these. Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader and others in his last crap stirring thread about the encounter between the Ukrainian and the Russian navy in the Kerch strait in this blog.

    • Replies: @utu
    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader

    Did he erase it? I remember that GR complained at another blog but then he returned for a brief period.

    You are correct that AK likes the politic of resentment however I think that a resentment is a main staple for Russians in the last few decades. Resentment is a loser's diet. In the past I thought Russian were more insightful and they knew what's up but apparently I overestimated them because they indeed seem to be hurt upon the awful discovery that are not being universally loved. For AK it might be a simple calculation of maximizing traffic on his blog.
    , @German_reader

    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader
     
    I don't remember AK deleting any of my comments (iirc he deleted some by an "anonymous" who called him "fat Karlin", but that's justified imo).

    How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe.
     
    Karlin's primarily a Russian nationalist, and iirc he's stated in the past that he doesn't care that much about the demographic transformation of western Europe...and why should he? Maybe the resulting decline and destabilization of those countries (which are mostly hostile to Russia anyway) might even be advantageous to Russia (note: this doesn't mean I believe in those retarded conspiracy theories of the sort "Putin is behind the refugee crisis).
    Net nationalists often have this naive idea that there is some kind of nationalist international of the white race in which we're all brothers...that's a naive illusion imo.
    But I do wonder what audience AK has in mind with resentful anti-Ukrainian pieces like this (and it's not like it's anything new, he's made exactly the same point many times before). Apart from the various tribalistic Ukrainians and Russians who have ended up in America, but cling tenaciously to their old loyalties, why should anybody commenting on a site like Unz review care about this?
  105. I have seen something similar for Korea where some want to rename it to “Corea”, because of some “legacy of colonialism” type arguments. Then there are plenty of black nationalist types that want to rename a whole bunch of things. This is just typical hard left behaviour in trying to remove the past.

  106. Meh, czechia is a pretty fake gay name. The website you linked to, besides trying to factsplain away their opinions like a bunch of journalist majors, so much as says it does not matter if any Czechs support it or whether any English-speaking support it or whether anyone uses it because a bunch of international lawyers have spoken.

    Czeska would sound ok but czechia sounds like the lyrics to a chia pet commercial.

    For shame chiapetland. Even Czechland would have been better than checkcheckchia.

  107. @DFH

    Most West Virginians proudly wave the Confederate flags
     
    Isn't that strange since the defining feature of their existence was not being in the Confederacy?

    Yes, it’s strange!

    However, it makes sense when you think about it.

    There was not just one South, but many Souths.

    Western Virginia was always far more populist than Tidewater Virginia. In the 1830s, there was a constitutional debate in Virginia, with the westerners calling for voting rights based less on slavery. The Shenandoah and upper Piedmont counties were also more populist, and less plantation-based, but still had lots of small slaveholders.

    West Virginia’s secession from Virginia would never have happened if the Ohio River counties and other mountainous areas had not long felt disenfranchised in Richmond.

    All this to say, the Confederate flag is a symbol of populism these days, so people whose ancestors fought in the Union armies now wave it. I live near Gettysburg, of all places, and virtually all people here come from families that fought in the Union army. But there are Confederate flags all over the rural North these days. Again, it’s become a symbol of general white populism.

    Also, keep in mind that much of what is now West Virginia voted for secession from the Union in 1861. Only the Ohio River counties, whose economy was more tied in with the Midwest, were staunchly pro-Union at that time. Again, even those areas of West Virginia that fought with Robert E. Lee still were different from the Virginia east of the Allegheny Front.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Although I will note that the map I've posted has some contextual problems

    For one thing, the Civil War career record of George H. Thomas - from plantation country southside Virginia - shows that many of those "100%" counties just had Unionists not bothering to vote.
    , @songbird
    I think the split really shows how slavery was geo-deterministic, which is really funny given how it is presented as a moral conflict - good vs. evil.

    To my mind, that is really one of the core questions of the moment: how much will maps determine going forward? How much does it matter that Europe is near Africa? That Germany is the center of Europe? Etc.
  108. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Yes, it’s strange!

    However, it makes sense when you think about it.

    There was not just one South, but many Souths.

    Western Virginia was always far more populist than Tidewater Virginia. In the 1830s, there was a constitutional debate in Virginia, with the westerners calling for voting rights based less on slavery. The Shenandoah and upper Piedmont counties were also more populist, and less plantation-based, but still had lots of small slaveholders.

    West Virginia’s secession from Virginia would never have happened if the Ohio River counties and other mountainous areas had not long felt disenfranchised in Richmond.

    All this to say, the Confederate flag is a symbol of populism these days, so people whose ancestors fought in the Union armies now wave it. I live near Gettysburg, of all places, and virtually all people here come from families that fought in the Union army. But there are Confederate flags all over the rural North these days. Again, it’s become a symbol of general white populism.

    Also, keep in mind that much of what is now West Virginia voted for secession from the Union in 1861. Only the Ohio River counties, whose economy was more tied in with the Midwest, were staunchly pro-Union at that time. Again, even those areas of West Virginia that fought with Robert E. Lee still were different from the Virginia east of the Allegheny Front.

    http://mcimaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/1861-Secession-1024x791.png

    Although I will note that the map I’ve posted has some contextual problems

    For one thing, the Civil War career record of George H. Thomas – from plantation country southside Virginia – shows that many of those “100%” counties just had Unionists not bothering to vote.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Thomas wanted to fight for the South but was passed over when they were handing out commands, Confederates missed a trick as he is probably the most underrated general of the war.
  109. I’d say it’s no so much cargo cult as severe inferiority complex. Countries with real achievements don’t have that, whereas countries that never had anything to write home about are obsessed. This obsession tells you more about a country than anything else.

  110. nationalists should be proud when foreign countries have their own names for their country or cities. That means the country matters for the other country. E.g. a random third-tier Indian city will be names by its correct name all over the world, because it doesn’t matter.

  111. @Felix Keverich

    Kremlin is not interested in peace.
     
    If "peace" means NATO troops and American nuclear missiles stationed near Kharkov, then who the fuck needs this peace? lol

    Everybody wants peace, but they want it on their terms. Though you have a point: Ukrainians need peace and normal relations with Russia a lot more, then Russia does.

    Common sense suggests that Ukrainians should be making moves to appease Russia, to buy peace for their poor country, yet the opposite is happening.

    Ukrainians need peace and normal relations with Russia a lot more then Russia does.

    You hit the nail on the head. Ukies like to say that Russia lost Ukraine. Thing is, when someone cuts off your hand, you sure lost something, but isn’t the loss for your hand much greater than for you? But Ukies would never acknowledge the reality, as it is too unflattering for their pipe dream.

  112. @DFH

    Most West Virginians proudly wave the Confederate flags
     
    Isn't that strange since the defining feature of their existence was not being in the Confederacy?

    I think it’s strange, but they don’t. The Confederate flag has expanded from becoming merely a Confederate symbol to being a “country” (or redneck) symbol.

    I’ve seen snowmobiles up here with Confederate flags for instance. There’s a house a few blocks away which flies and American flag, a Confederate flag, and a Green Bay Packers (American football team) flag.

    Three flags over Wisconsin…

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    I've seen mexicans flying confederate flags in front of their house in Chicago in mexican neighborhoods. No idea why but it made me smirk.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Indeed.

    I would never fly the Confederate flag, not for the usual SJW reasons, but because, unlike most SJWs, I've read the various works by Confederate and Unionist writers and find the latter marginally preferable.

    You mention Wisconsin. The average Badger in 1861-65 had racial beliefs similar to Southerners, once he actually met blacks. Anti-slavery sentiment and "racism" were, of course, seen as complimentary to Republicans, not contradictory. As late as 1862, Lincoln himself met with a society of black American civic leaders who had formed an idea of volunteering their position and talents to move ex-slaves back to Africa. Although there were many outright abolitionists and even some Transcendalists, the mainstream position of the average Union soldier marching through Georgia and seeing blacks would be, "Free the slaves - send 'em all back to Africa."
  113. @reiner Tor
    Without the DLNR Ukraine could actually join NATO. As long as it has a territorial dispute, it cannot.

    So that’s why the Kremlin is not interested in peace.

    If NATO wants to commit suicide, it should accept Ukraine. LDNR is not relevant here, what matters is the state of Ukraine. It could have been a country, alas. If it were, it wouldn’t need any NATO. But its “leaders” (all of them since 1991; Porky is a thief first and foremost, but so were Kravchuk, Kuchma, Yushchenko, and Yanukovich) cared about lining their pockets and did not give a hoot about the country. Hence we have what we have.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    Putin once said about EU-Ukraine relationship: “It’s a dating that will never result in a marriage”. I don’t think Ukraine is interested in marriage, because they already had one – to Russia.

    OK, Russia can be tough on Ukraine, they might slap them around once in a while, but that’s because they love them and they don’t want them to get out of order.

    But Ukraine wants to explore the joys of “democracy” – multiple partners with whom she can whore around. And her western partners will gladly pimp her around for some fun. One day Ukraine will be broke, her youth spent and nowhere to go. They will return to Russia begging for mercy and they will resume their traditional role – being a burden to Russia.
  114. I sometimes watched some programs of channels like “Belarus 1”

    I thought sometimes nationalism is not subtly promoted in Belarus in their television (surprisingly obsession talking about their special personality, separateness, etc).

    But obviously this situation is not quite like the intensity that Ukrainian nationalism has been promoted in Ukraine, even from the 1990s.

  115. @Vishnugupta
    The unwritten convention is cities that were in fact built by the British like Bombay are referred to as such in popular conversation.

    Other places and geographic features that were renamed by the British have reverted to their native names Ganges is called Ganga,Poona,Cawnpore is now Pune,Kanpur etc.

    There is also a significant campaign to re-name cities with muslim names. For instance, Allahabad to Prayagraj/Prayag. This was recently done in UP (now controlled by Yogi Adityanath, a Hindu nationalist monk which is its chief minister).

    There are similar suggestions for many cities in North India and even some in the southern parts, such as Hyderabad, though the latter is likely not happening since the ruling party is a secular left-of-center one. Any city with -bad at the end, has muslim/foreign roots.

    We often underestimate just how thoroughly dominated India was for the last 1000 years by foreigners. Even the word Hindu itself is a foreign word from the muslim foreign rulers. ‘Indian’ meals such as biryani also have foreign muslim roots., including the word itself.

    I personally support this campaign, but if we were to go by AK’s tongue-in-cheek smear of any country obsessed with re-naming then India would by any standard be seen as deeply insecure and “fake” since so much of its names and language has been imposed from the outside for almost a thousand years, to the extent you can barely ask what is even authentically ‘Indian’ anymore.

    But I don’t really see it as such. The Czech language was almost wiped out 200 years ago, at least in the major cities in Czechia. Czech was relegated to being a pastoral language in the countryside with people seriously predicting its eradication within a realistic timehorizon. However, there was a conscious effort to revive it. Today, many who are not knowledgable about history would be shocked to hear that German was a majority language in Prague, Brno and other major cities not too long ago. This is a testament to the revival movements success, as well as the re-awakened national spirit of the Czech people. I don’t see why this shouldn’t be seen as a template for Hindus to rid themselves of this historical baggage in their own country.

    I certainly hope that India purges as much of the foreign influence as possible and re-asserts itself. I would also change India to Bharat even in English. Hindustan is sometimes used in Hindi (both of those words are also imported/have their roots from foreign muslim rulers). Today, Hindi is often peppered with a lot of English phrases. There ought to be a general movement in Bharat today to clean up the language and root it in the local population and its accordant customs and traditions. Language is power.

    • Replies: @DFH

    Language is power.
     
    Hence the ongoing French and Greek domination of Britain
    , @Vishnugupta
    The word Hindu comes from old Persian pronunciation if Sindhu(Indus) to refer to people on the other side of the Indus river the then border between the Achmaneid Persian empire and Indian states.

    It predates Islam by over a millennia. The formal name of Hinduism is Sanatan Dharma BTW.

    I am all for naming cities to Hindu names if cities existed prior to their conquest so Ahmadabad should become Karnavati ,Allahabad should become Prayag etc.

    Btw Hindu India had more or less destroyed Muslim power in the 18th century under the Brahmin founded Maratha Empire...which was by far the biggest military force on the sub continent at the dawn of British Rule.

    There is a campaign to Sanskritize Hindi by purging it of Persian,Turkic and Arab words..Official Hindi is basically that and marks are deducted in exams for using middle eastern words instead of their Sanskrit equivalents..Sanskrit is also widely taught in schools.

    We need to atleast semi industrialize and the world needs to enter the post oil age (both likely in 15-20 years) for us to fully show the followers of the Arabian mental illness their place..till then we have to put up atleast a facade of civility and speak about how the bastards 'enriched' Indian civilization...

    The extent of Muslim devastation of India is truly horrific..the gangetic belt the heartland of Hindu civilization and the most fertile land in all Eurasia was basically flattened with every major temple and university destroyed..

    They will pay for this!
  116. @Giuseppe

    For instance, precisely nobody in The Netherlands – to the best of my knowledge – cares in the least about having an article appended to their name in English...
     
    This has always annoyed me. Ukrainians speak a language without articles and have no business telling people who speak English where to put an article. Lots of countries use articles in front of their name. In Hebrew, it is הגליל, "the Galilee," a prosaic designation of an area. The British used to have a poetic name for Argentina, "the Argentine" and "the Ukraine" is a name meaning something like the borderlands or "the Marches" because the Slavic root is край meaning edge or border. In some senses it is also poetic, at least in English, and to me hearkens back to the history of the area when it was a free-for-all frontier. When English speakers say "Ukraine" it always seems to me like they are speaking in the quintessential Slavic accent without articles, e.g., "I put book on table," or "must kill moose and squirrel." Understandable yes, but silly sounding.

    ‘…When English speakers say “Ukraine” it always seems to me like they are speaking in the quintessential Slavic accent without articles, e.g., “I put book on table,” or “must kill moose and squirrel.” …’

    Exactly. In English, the expression is ‘the Ukraine.’ The usage makes no comment on the political status of the area in question.

    • Replies: @Syagrius
    Well, there it is. It's "The Ukraine". But it isn't also "The Russia", or is it? One hears from time to time "The Belarus". Where does this need for the definite article - demonstrating one's respect for the nations in question - end? At least in communist times there was no confusion; it wasn't "Back in USSR", "Long Live Soviet Union!" and such like.

    None of this should surprise even a casual student of language. France isn't 'France', but 'La France'. Thus "Vive la France!". Have we been disrespecting France (sorry, la France) all these centuries?
  117. @Anonymous lurker
    What's the "Normanist theory"?

    I thought it was fairly well-established that the people that came to call themselves Russians were chiefly East Slavs who lived in the Peipus-Ilmen-Onega-Ladoga region, together with Ingrian and Karelian Finnic peoples etc, who were already present in the northern reaches of their soon-to-be realm. Then, Scandinavians started moving in as well, around 500 AD, and they all kind of merged a bit, and the name "Rus" supposedly popped up at that stage.

    That the later Rurikid dynasty was more "fresh"/recent Scandi is well-attested too, but the genetic makeup of the population at large remained chiefly Slav.

    Anyway, Jaakko had a good point in regards to this - the Finnish word for Russia/Russian is venäjä-, cognate with the ancient Germanic "wends", i.e. the Slavs that lived along the southern Baltic coasts waaaaaay back. When they moved northeast and onward, they eventually ran into Finnic tribes, and therefore "venäjä" still lives on in Finnish and Estonian (vene) etc.

    As regards to Ukraine and them claiming to be the "real Russia" due to the "Kievan Rus", that's also fairly straightforwardly false in my eyes. By the time the Rus decided to expand southward and kick out the Khazars and God knows who else who inhabited the Kiev region, the old school Russian lands up north had been around for quite a while, centering on Novgorod.

    Anyway, I'll readily admit I'm out of my element when it comes to these things, but still I fail to see what part of this particular history is debatable enough as to have spawned competing "theories."

    There are theories (I happen to think it is a good one) that these old terms are political, not ethnic. Much like the horde armies from the east were comprised of all sorts of ethnic tribes banded together under some great leader. The idea would be that originally, a group like the Rus were not a tribe but an alliance or a gang, like the bloods or the crips or the latin kings. So they would have had recruits or members (nobles) from different ethnic clans, slavic, baltic, uralic, and norse, and whatever else was around.

    I have seen someone in comments on this website link to a translation of what supposed to be one of the oldest Old Church Slavonic documents, it was a long time ago, but I do remember that it included a list of attendees to some Kievan Rus thing, and the names listed included noticeably slavic, germanic and (I would guess) Finnish names already in their oldest texts.

    Sort of like the contemporary Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne neighboring them, it was not based around an ethnic type or single culture but an international military/political order. The HRE under Charlemagne originally included all the French, benelux lowlanders, and northern Italians in addition to the Germans, and one of the original 5 elector states that voted, best 3 out of 5, for the holy roman emporer was a slavic state that later named itself after a brand of bananas.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Well, that idea certainly fits with the history of the Cossacks.
  118. @Thulean Friend
    There is also a significant campaign to re-name cities with muslim names. For instance, Allahabad to Prayagraj/Prayag. This was recently done in UP (now controlled by Yogi Adityanath, a Hindu nationalist monk which is its chief minister).

    There are similar suggestions for many cities in North India and even some in the southern parts, such as Hyderabad, though the latter is likely not happening since the ruling party is a secular left-of-center one. Any city with -bad at the end, has muslim/foreign roots.

    We often underestimate just how thoroughly dominated India was for the last 1000 years by foreigners. Even the word Hindu itself is a foreign word from the muslim foreign rulers. 'Indian' meals such as biryani also have foreign muslim roots., including the word itself.

    I personally support this campaign, but if we were to go by AK's tongue-in-cheek smear of any country obsessed with re-naming then India would by any standard be seen as deeply insecure and "fake" since so much of its names and language has been imposed from the outside for almost a thousand years, to the extent you can barely ask what is even authentically 'Indian' anymore.

    But I don't really see it as such. The Czech language was almost wiped out 200 years ago, at least in the major cities in Czechia. Czech was relegated to being a pastoral language in the countryside with people seriously predicting its eradication within a realistic timehorizon. However, there was a conscious effort to revive it. Today, many who are not knowledgable about history would be shocked to hear that German was a majority language in Prague, Brno and other major cities not too long ago. This is a testament to the revival movements success, as well as the re-awakened national spirit of the Czech people. I don't see why this shouldn't be seen as a template for Hindus to rid themselves of this historical baggage in their own country.

    I certainly hope that India purges as much of the foreign influence as possible and re-asserts itself. I would also change India to Bharat even in English. Hindustan is sometimes used in Hindi (both of those words are also imported/have their roots from foreign muslim rulers). Today, Hindi is often peppered with a lot of English phrases. There ought to be a general movement in Bharat today to clean up the language and root it in the local population and its accordant customs and traditions. Language is power.

    Language is power.

    Hence the ongoing French and Greek domination of Britain

    • Replies: @Dacian Soros
    Do you know any other country that is afforded 10 bankruptcies in a century, yet still gets to borrow? Greece was, and still is, for UK (and richer EU) what Israel is for US - an enlightened colony, where the occupying power pays of the privilege of satisfying its dream of connecting to "the ancient".

    Also, Jeremy Hunt spoke to the French in French. When was the last time a British diplomat spoke Italian to Italians, or Spanish to Spaniards, or Nederlandese to the Dutch? France is the major connection of UK to EU, and not only due to geography.

    , @Thulean Friend
    Pretty poor attempt at a gotcha given that the English language is the lingua franca (pun unintended!) of the modern world. English has more influence on languages today than any of the other two, and we live in the here and now, and not centuries ago. Also, reducing it to whose nation has more loanwords is kind of autistic and besides the point.

    I was thinking about it the way we use language and how it shapes our thinking, though this obviously went right over your head like a lead balloon ;)
  119. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Yes, it’s strange!

    However, it makes sense when you think about it.

    There was not just one South, but many Souths.

    Western Virginia was always far more populist than Tidewater Virginia. In the 1830s, there was a constitutional debate in Virginia, with the westerners calling for voting rights based less on slavery. The Shenandoah and upper Piedmont counties were also more populist, and less plantation-based, but still had lots of small slaveholders.

    West Virginia’s secession from Virginia would never have happened if the Ohio River counties and other mountainous areas had not long felt disenfranchised in Richmond.

    All this to say, the Confederate flag is a symbol of populism these days, so people whose ancestors fought in the Union armies now wave it. I live near Gettysburg, of all places, and virtually all people here come from families that fought in the Union army. But there are Confederate flags all over the rural North these days. Again, it’s become a symbol of general white populism.

    Also, keep in mind that much of what is now West Virginia voted for secession from the Union in 1861. Only the Ohio River counties, whose economy was more tied in with the Midwest, were staunchly pro-Union at that time. Again, even those areas of West Virginia that fought with Robert E. Lee still were different from the Virginia east of the Allegheny Front.

    http://mcimaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/1861-Secession-1024x791.png

    I think the split really shows how slavery was geo-deterministic, which is really funny given how it is presented as a moral conflict – good vs. evil.

    To my mind, that is really one of the core questions of the moment: how much will maps determine going forward? How much does it matter that Europe is near Africa? That Germany is the center of Europe? Etc.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    It's a bit of both.

    For either side in the Civil War, their perception of slavery was that it was either

    1) A moral good and a geo-specific good
    2) A moral bad and a geo-specific bad
    3) A moral bad but a geo-specific good
  120. @sean42
    All you bickering morons and pieces of shit deserve to be trapped in a room and be gassed/suffocated to death or be blown up. How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe. In fact, if I did not know better, I suspect Karlin is an agent paid for by the West precisely to stir things up and promote discord among Euro nationalists with posts like these. Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader and others in his last crap stirring thread about the encounter between the Ukrainian and the Russian navy in the Kerch strait in this blog.

    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader

    Did he erase it? I remember that GR complained at another blog but then he returned for a brief period.

    You are correct that AK likes the politic of resentment however I think that a resentment is a main staple for Russians in the last few decades. Resentment is a loser’s diet. In the past I thought Russian were more insightful and they knew what’s up but apparently I overestimated them because they indeed seem to be hurt upon the awful discovery that are not being universally loved. For AK it might be a simple calculation of maximizing traffic on his blog.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    You seem to be a decade or two behind the times. After the disaster of 1990-s (which was called “democracy” in Western MSM) most Russians feel that if someone is loved by the West, that someone is highly suspicious. Unlike some nations we know, the majority in Russia have learned their lesson and won’t be fooled again.
  121. @Thorfinnsson
    I think it's strange, but they don't. The Confederate flag has expanded from becoming merely a Confederate symbol to being a "country" (or redneck) symbol.

    I've seen snowmobiles up here with Confederate flags for instance. There's a house a few blocks away which flies and American flag, a Confederate flag, and a Green Bay Packers (American football team) flag.

    Three flags over Wisconsin...

    I’ve seen mexicans flying confederate flags in front of their house in Chicago in mexican neighborhoods. No idea why but it made me smirk.

    • Replies: @songbird
    The Mexican flag is kind of odd because it is like a seal. There is a lot of history behind the symbology, but it probably evokes government more than most flags.

    I think that was one of the reasons the Left went after the Confederate flag. They had successfully subverted the American flag and desired to destroy anything that might compete with it.
  122. @utu
    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader

    Did he erase it? I remember that GR complained at another blog but then he returned for a brief period.

    You are correct that AK likes the politic of resentment however I think that a resentment is a main staple for Russians in the last few decades. Resentment is a loser's diet. In the past I thought Russian were more insightful and they knew what's up but apparently I overestimated them because they indeed seem to be hurt upon the awful discovery that are not being universally loved. For AK it might be a simple calculation of maximizing traffic on his blog.

    You seem to be a decade or two behind the times. After the disaster of 1990-s (which was called “democracy” in Western MSM) most Russians feel that if someone is loved by the West, that someone is highly suspicious. Unlike some nations we know, the majority in Russia have learned their lesson and won’t be fooled again.

    • Replies: @utu
    "the majority in Russia have learned their lesson and won’t be fooled again". - I hope this is true. If so, still the resolve was made on the rational level only but it was not integrated on the psychological level, so we see plenty of butt-hurt reactions.
  123. @Lars Porsena
    I've seen mexicans flying confederate flags in front of their house in Chicago in mexican neighborhoods. No idea why but it made me smirk.

    The Mexican flag is kind of odd because it is like a seal. There is a lot of history behind the symbology, but it probably evokes government more than most flags.

    I think that was one of the reasons the Left went after the Confederate flag. They had successfully subverted the American flag and desired to destroy anything that might compete with it.

  124. @sean42
    All you bickering morons and pieces of shit deserve to be trapped in a room and be gassed/suffocated to death or be blown up. How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe. In fact, if I did not know better, I suspect Karlin is an agent paid for by the West precisely to stir things up and promote discord among Euro nationalists with posts like these. Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader and others in his last crap stirring thread about the encounter between the Ukrainian and the Russian navy in the Kerch strait in this blog.

    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader

    I don’t remember AK deleting any of my comments (iirc he deleted some by an “anonymous” who called him “fat Karlin”, but that’s justified imo).

    How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe.

    Karlin’s primarily a Russian nationalist, and iirc he’s stated in the past that he doesn’t care that much about the demographic transformation of western Europe…and why should he? Maybe the resulting decline and destabilization of those countries (which are mostly hostile to Russia anyway) might even be advantageous to Russia (note: this doesn’t mean I believe in those retarded conspiracy theories of the sort “Putin is behind the refugee crisis).
    Net nationalists often have this naive idea that there is some kind of nationalist international of the white race in which we’re all brothers…that’s a naive illusion imo.
    But I do wonder what audience AK has in mind with resentful anti-Ukrainian pieces like this (and it’s not like it’s anything new, he’s made exactly the same point many times before). Apart from the various tribalistic Ukrainians and Russians who have ended up in America, but cling tenaciously to their old loyalties, why should anybody commenting on a site like Unz review care about this?

    • Replies: @g2k
    From a purely self-centred, western European point of view (or at least, from what I can tell, your interpretation of it) it, would be considerably better for Ukraine to be absorbed by Russia than become a Poland/baltics 2. Consider what the consequences of its euro integration would be: at the lower end, there would be tens of millions of impoverished, but educated and competent workers with unfettered access to the labor markets of the better-off EU countries, at the elite level, there would be yet another ulta-altaltisict, rightwing block, unconditionally backing up Merkel, or whoever succeedes her (AKK looks like some hideous Hannah Gadsby Merkel hybrid) . Sometimes the enemy of your enemy really is your friend.
    , @Dmitry

    (note: this doesn’t mean I believe in those retarded conspiracy theories of the sort “Putin is behind the refugee crisis).

     

    Lol such conspiracy theories, will be directly contradicted by the reality that Putin and his friends and employees put property and/or children in Western Europe.

    Putin's family has some nice property in France, for example - I doubt he wants the Camp of Saints to climb over the fences of his children's French seaside mansion.


    their old loyalties, why should anybody commenting on a site like Unz review care about this?
     
    Isn't it Karlin's job to report this topic for his overseas readers (to put it in the English-speaking world), which are not all insular American/rednecks that climbed over the fence from other parts of Unz review?

    However, Karlin has not reported 1% of this topic, about how sensitive Ukrainians are.

    From Karlin's discussion, I can imagine international readers probably still have no idea how radical, angry and crazy, many Ukrainian "patriots" are if you talk to them about language topics.

    So maybe he could have focused more singularly on the topic, but then, I don't think he wants to persuade anyone about this, or write such focused things.

    , @Mr. Hack

    But I do wonder what audience AK has in mind with resentful anti-Ukrainian pieces like this (and it’s not like it’s anything new, he’s made exactly the same point many times before)...I don’t see the point though in endlessly going on about “fake and gay nations” (unless it’s AK’s goal to confirm fears about great Russian chauvinism and its imperialist baggage).
     
    It's refreshing to see that somebody who's not a part of a 'tribalistic Ukrainian' formation feels this way about Karlin's incessant butthurt pronunciations about Ukraine and Ukrainians. Well, can you really expect any more from a Russian chauvinist?
  125. @DFH
    What other basis for a country is there?

    In my view it’s largely a test of time and having deep historical roots. Lithuania has less political historical roots than the USA. And there also has to be some kind of spontaneity in creating a country instead of artificially creating it. USA is another good examlld

  126. Well, to begin with, I’ll note that nations are something that exist in people’s heads. No people, no nations. Conversely, if a lot of people think the Ukraine is a real nation, it becomes a real nation. Here I’m reminded of the Israel-Palestine dispute. Some Zionists will argue that there never was a Palestinian people. That may or may not be true; but it’s not terribly relevant. There is a Palestinian people now; the Zionists created them with their actions.

    That said, it’s odd that this piece led off with Georgia as an example of a ‘fake and gay’ nation. Georgia was an independent kingdom — and one with a long history — as recently as the eighteenth century. It’s very much a real nation.

    Poland indubitably is as well. Certainly Russia is. Armenia would be. Lithuania, having a long and very distinct existence in the Middle Ages and there very definitely being Lithuanians to boot, seems to me to qualify. Latvia, Estonia, the Ukraine, Finland, and the Czechs all seem like reasonable candidates for nationhood to me. There was little independent political existence before the twentieth century, but each region has a unique history and a people who at least feel themselves to be unique.

    ‘Belarus,’ on the other hand, is pretty ‘gay.’ That never was a state, and I’m not aware of any abortive nationalist gropings along the lines of those that the Ukraine, say, displayed in both World Wars. Are there ‘Belarussians’? Would they riot and take to the woods and form armed bands if Russia just annexed the state outright?

    Now, for fun, we can consider the legitimacy of states that most definitely very much were but thanks to the miracle of modern population replacement now very much aren’t: Prussia, the Crimean Khanate. Neither was even a little ‘gay’ but both are most certainly gone.

    Conversely, we have exciting modern frissons that rest on either fantasy or nothing at all. Modern Greece incorporates a great deal of continental hinterland that was all kinds of things but certainly not anyone related to the ancient Greeks; the ‘Greeks’ were actually more of a maritime people, spread around seacoasts all around the Aegean and even further afield but rarely extending themselves very far inland. Indeed, in World War Two Greek guerillas often found themselves in the embarassing position of losing out to Tito’s Partisans in northern Greece because the peasantry spoke Slavic dialects rather than Greek. No doubt that’s been rectified, but the fact remains; modern Greece is largely an invention; most Greeks think of themselves as Greeks because they’ve been told they’re Greeks. The ancient Greeks are long gone, others have indeed moved or been moved into their place, and the lands they lived in don’t even match up with modern Greece particularly well in the first place. An early martyr appropriated to the cause of Greek independence apparently wasn’t even aware of that identity; as the Ottomans led him to be executed he cried out ‘a Romios I was born and a Romios I will die.’.

    Ahem. No, no. Greek. You’re Greek. That clear?

    Then there’s ‘Rumania.’ There were various historical states and regions that were incorporated at one time or another into the modern Rumanian state: Wallachia, Bessarabia, Moldovia, Transsylvania, Dobrudja are all names I’m familiar with. But as far as I know, there was no ‘Rumania’ or even a ‘Romania’ until the retreat of the Ottoman Empire in the middle of the nineteenth century. Rumanians themselves are a reality, but their state is of decidedly recent — and hence ‘gay’ — provenance. It’s difficult to see why Romania should be regarded as authentic if the Ukraine isn’t. Perhaps because Russia never absorbed it outright?

    So we’ve got all sorts of degrees and conditions of national reality. However, the states that have been singled out in this article as artificial don’t seem to me to be particularly egregious offenders in this respect. Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don’t strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @DFH

    I’ll note that nations are something that exist in people’s heads
     
    That is not true. It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.
    , @Dacian Soros
    ``Tranquillo Andronico writes in 1534 that Valachi "now call themselves Romans". In 1532, Francesco della Valle accompanying Governor Aloisio Gritti to Transylvania, Walachia and Moldavia notes that "they call themselves in their language Romanians (Romei)". Reporting his mission in Transylvania, the Neapolitan Jesuit Ferrante Capeci writes around 1575 that the inhabitants of those Provinces call themselves "romanesci". Pierre Lescalopier, relating his voyage from Venice to Constantinople, notes in 1574 that those inhabiting Walachia, Moldavia and the most part of Transylvania say to be descendants of the Romans, calling their language "romanechte". The learned Lutheran preacher and first Transylvanian Saxon historiograph Johann Lebel attests in 1542 that common Romanians call themselves "Romuini". The Polish Humanist Stanislaus Orichovius notes as late as 1554 that "these left behind Dacians in their own language are called Romini, after the Romans" The Dalmatian Antonius Verantio, who later would become viceroy of Habsburg Hungary, also states in 1570 that "When they ask somebody whether they can speak Wallachian, they say: do you speak Roman? and whether one is Wallachian they say: are you Roman?"`` (Wikipedia)

    The country is, indeed, somewhat made up, since Stalin-Roosevelt-Churchill transferred parts of it PLUS two million Romanians to "Moldova" and "the Ukraine", and awarded us the Har-Cov exclave.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    What is a "Romios"?
    , @Seraphim
    The native name of 'Georgia/Грузия' is Sakartvelo (საქართველო) as it appears on Georgian passports.
    , @anonymous coward

    Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don’t strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.
     
    The problem with the Ukraine is that it's an artificial entity created by Soviet diktat.

    Like all Soviet centrally-planned things, it is an abominably ugly abortion, prone to crime, corruption and soul-sucking gray ugliness.
    , @reiner Tor
    The Greeks are descendants of the Ancient Hellenes. It’s just a fact. There could be Nordicist fantasies about the ancient Hellenes being Nordics, but recent genetic studies have confirmed that the Greeks are the closest present population to them.

    Regarding Macedonians, the ancient ones were closely related to the Hellenes, but the present ones are more closely related to the other ancient Balkan populations, which were relatively distinct from Greeks.

    By the way, is Hungarian the only language where the ancient and present Macedonians have different names? “Makedón” for the ancient ones and “macedón” (the c pronounced as ts) for the present ones.
  127. @German_reader

    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader
     
    I don't remember AK deleting any of my comments (iirc he deleted some by an "anonymous" who called him "fat Karlin", but that's justified imo).

    How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe.
     
    Karlin's primarily a Russian nationalist, and iirc he's stated in the past that he doesn't care that much about the demographic transformation of western Europe...and why should he? Maybe the resulting decline and destabilization of those countries (which are mostly hostile to Russia anyway) might even be advantageous to Russia (note: this doesn't mean I believe in those retarded conspiracy theories of the sort "Putin is behind the refugee crisis).
    Net nationalists often have this naive idea that there is some kind of nationalist international of the white race in which we're all brothers...that's a naive illusion imo.
    But I do wonder what audience AK has in mind with resentful anti-Ukrainian pieces like this (and it's not like it's anything new, he's made exactly the same point many times before). Apart from the various tribalistic Ukrainians and Russians who have ended up in America, but cling tenaciously to their old loyalties, why should anybody commenting on a site like Unz review care about this?

    From a purely self-centred, western European point of view (or at least, from what I can tell, your interpretation of it) it, would be considerably better for Ukraine to be absorbed by Russia than become a Poland/baltics 2. Consider what the consequences of its euro integration would be: at the lower end, there would be tens of millions of impoverished, but educated and competent workers with unfettered access to the labor markets of the better-off EU countries, at the elite level, there would be yet another ulta-altaltisict, rightwing block, unconditionally backing up Merkel, or whoever succeedes her (AKK looks like some hideous Hannah Gadsby Merkel hybrid) . Sometimes the enemy of your enemy really is your friend.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I've always been opposed to EU or NATO accession for Ukraine, it's an insane idea imo, bound to create severe conflict with Russia (and provide no benefit to genuine German interests).
    I don't see the point though in endlessly going on about "fake and gay nations" (unless it's AK's goal to confirm fears about great Russian chauvinism and its imperialist baggage).
  128. @Anon 2
    I should add, before others beat me to it, that some historians derive the names
    Lenkija or Lehistan (Poland in Lithuanian or Ottoman Turkish, respectively)
    from the presumptive tribe of Lendians. As usual in such matters, the etymology
    is rather controversial, and cannot be reduced to a few sentences. Interestingly,
    in the earliest Latin chronicles Polska (Poland) typically appears as Polonia which
    is the term used to this day in Spanish and basically in French (Pologne).
    In contemporary Polish, Polonia refers to the Polish diaspora (about 15 million
    Polonians living outside of Poland, 10 million in the U.S.).

    Is it generally assumed in Poland that that the term ‘Polska’ is a derivative of ‘pole’=field?

    In other words, the field-people or farmers. I have assumed that is the case and then I run into a linguist who claims that it is an ancient religious term. But there were also ‘Polyane’ in the area of today’s Ukraine.

    The term ‘Cech’ also has few derivations, one I like is the ‘highlander‘ (the original Czech tribe home base were the highlands immediately west of Prague). But there are a few other etymologies, incl. derived from ‘singers or travelling entertainers’. The official one is of course the patriarch ‘Cech’, but that begs the question what was his name based on. Bohemia only refers to the western 2/3 of Czechia (the east is Moravia and has always been called that).

    The word Bohemia has the same root as Bayern (Bavaria). Based on that the hapless Vaclav Havel once claimed to Western visitors that Czechs were actually ‘Celts’…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    But there were also ‘Polyane’ in the area of today’s Ukraine.
     
    Not only were there Polyane within Ukraine (Central and Dniepr region), but they were the largest of the Slavic tribes that were part of the mix out of which the later Ruthenians and Ukrainians cam from. The great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky felt that Ukrainian history could indeed be interpreted as beginning with the inclusion of just this Slavic tribe within modern Ukrainian territory. Were they related to the Polyani of Poland? Nobody knows for sure, but I think that it's quite possible.
    , @LH
    The origin of the word Czech is not clear. Certainly it does not come from the legend, which was 12th century artifact. One possibility is that the word Czechs meant "our people", another that it designated "dry land" (the central Bohemia lacking marshes).

    Bohemia has Latin origin - land of Celtic tribe Boii - and the tribal name was later reused by Frankish scribes, in several butchered forms, and eventually caught in Bohemia itself, adding to the mess.

    Václav Havel is forgotten here.

  129. @Colin Wright
    Well, to begin with, I'll note that nations are something that exist in people's heads. No people, no nations. Conversely, if a lot of people think the Ukraine is a real nation, it becomes a real nation. Here I'm reminded of the Israel-Palestine dispute. Some Zionists will argue that there never was a Palestinian people. That may or may not be true; but it's not terribly relevant. There is a Palestinian people now; the Zionists created them with their actions.

    That said, it's odd that this piece led off with Georgia as an example of a 'fake and gay' nation. Georgia was an independent kingdom -- and one with a long history -- as recently as the eighteenth century. It's very much a real nation.

    Poland indubitably is as well. Certainly Russia is. Armenia would be. Lithuania, having a long and very distinct existence in the Middle Ages and there very definitely being Lithuanians to boot, seems to me to qualify. Latvia, Estonia, the Ukraine, Finland, and the Czechs all seem like reasonable candidates for nationhood to me. There was little independent political existence before the twentieth century, but each region has a unique history and a people who at least feel themselves to be unique.

    'Belarus,' on the other hand, is pretty 'gay.' That never was a state, and I'm not aware of any abortive nationalist gropings along the lines of those that the Ukraine, say, displayed in both World Wars. Are there 'Belarussians'? Would they riot and take to the woods and form armed bands if Russia just annexed the state outright?

    Now, for fun, we can consider the legitimacy of states that most definitely very much were but thanks to the miracle of modern population replacement now very much aren't: Prussia, the Crimean Khanate. Neither was even a little 'gay' but both are most certainly gone.

    Conversely, we have exciting modern frissons that rest on either fantasy or nothing at all. Modern Greece incorporates a great deal of continental hinterland that was all kinds of things but certainly not anyone related to the ancient Greeks; the 'Greeks' were actually more of a maritime people, spread around seacoasts all around the Aegean and even further afield but rarely extending themselves very far inland. Indeed, in World War Two Greek guerillas often found themselves in the embarassing position of losing out to Tito's Partisans in northern Greece because the peasantry spoke Slavic dialects rather than Greek. No doubt that's been rectified, but the fact remains; modern Greece is largely an invention; most Greeks think of themselves as Greeks because they've been told they're Greeks. The ancient Greeks are long gone, others have indeed moved or been moved into their place, and the lands they lived in don't even match up with modern Greece particularly well in the first place. An early martyr appropriated to the cause of Greek independence apparently wasn't even aware of that identity; as the Ottomans led him to be executed he cried out 'a Romios I was born and a Romios I will die.'.

    Ahem. No, no. Greek. You're Greek. That clear?

    Then there's 'Rumania.' There were various historical states and regions that were incorporated at one time or another into the modern Rumanian state: Wallachia, Bessarabia, Moldovia, Transsylvania, Dobrudja are all names I'm familiar with. But as far as I know, there was no 'Rumania' or even a 'Romania' until the retreat of the Ottoman Empire in the middle of the nineteenth century. Rumanians themselves are a reality, but their state is of decidedly recent -- and hence 'gay' -- provenance. It's difficult to see why Romania should be regarded as authentic if the Ukraine isn't. Perhaps because Russia never absorbed it outright?

    So we've got all sorts of degrees and conditions of national reality. However, the states that have been singled out in this article as artificial don't seem to me to be particularly egregious offenders in this respect. Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don't strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

    I’ll note that nations are something that exist in people’s heads

    That is not true. It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.
     
    If there's no awareness of belonging to a common group (defined by descent, culture, language etc.) with a shared past and future, how can there be a nation? What would keep such a group from simply dissolving when it has no awareness of its own identity?
    , @reiner Tor

    It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.
     
    How? A group might speak a distinct dialect and be genetically different from the rest (Occitans?), but if they believe themselves to be part of another nation ("French"), they will not be a separate nation. (So, no Occitanian Nation, at least not for the moment.)
  130. @g2k
    From a purely self-centred, western European point of view (or at least, from what I can tell, your interpretation of it) it, would be considerably better for Ukraine to be absorbed by Russia than become a Poland/baltics 2. Consider what the consequences of its euro integration would be: at the lower end, there would be tens of millions of impoverished, but educated and competent workers with unfettered access to the labor markets of the better-off EU countries, at the elite level, there would be yet another ulta-altaltisict, rightwing block, unconditionally backing up Merkel, or whoever succeedes her (AKK looks like some hideous Hannah Gadsby Merkel hybrid) . Sometimes the enemy of your enemy really is your friend.

    I’ve always been opposed to EU or NATO accession for Ukraine, it’s an insane idea imo, bound to create severe conflict with Russia (and provide no benefit to genuine German interests).
    I don’t see the point though in endlessly going on about “fake and gay nations” (unless it’s AK’s goal to confirm fears about great Russian chauvinism and its imperialist baggage).

    • Replies: @g2k
    The problem is that EU/NATO accession for Ukraine, and the backlash, that is driving this. The Kremlin doesn't care when Russians are treated like dirt in Central Asia and the Caucasus. Whether someone objectively considers Russia to be expansionist/chauvinist or not is besides the point when it's already consensus amongst anyone who matters in any eu state that matters that they are and policy is made accordingly.
  131. @DFH

    I’ll note that nations are something that exist in people’s heads
     
    That is not true. It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.

    It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.

    If there’s no awareness of belonging to a common group (defined by descent, culture, language etc.) with a shared past and future, how can there be a nation? What would keep such a group from simply dissolving when it has no awareness of its own identity?

  132. @Mikhail
    Linguistically and ethnically, Estonians are closest to Finns. Finns themselves aren't as ethnically and linguistically close as the other Nordics are with each other.

    Finns themselves aren’t as ethnically and linguistically close as the other Nordics are with each other.

    Except for the Swedish-speaking Finn population, not at all close. It is sort of possible as a Swedish-speaker to figure out Norwegian, Danish and even Icelandic (admittedly only with some luck) but Finnish is entirely different.

    • Replies: @Boswald Bollocksworth
    This is where the Scandinavian vs Nordic distinction comes in. Germanic countries in the region are Scandinavian, where as the broader group of sideways cross flags is Nordic (former Kalmar Union). Finnish is not an IE language but culturally they share a great deal with Scandoknavians, except Finns have more self respect and are vastly more manly than homosexual Scandos, especially Swedish subhumans.
  133. @DFH

    I’ll note that nations are something that exist in people’s heads
     
    That is not true. It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.

    It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.

    How? A group might speak a distinct dialect and be genetically different from the rest (Occitans?), but if they believe themselves to be part of another nation (“French”), they will not be a separate nation. (So, no Occitanian Nation, at least not for the moment.)

    • Replies: @DFH
    They might possess some sort of group allegiance or consciousness of difference with other groups without actually having the fully fledged idea of a nation (like some non-historic nations in Eastern Europe before the 19th century).
  134. @German_reader

    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader
     
    I don't remember AK deleting any of my comments (iirc he deleted some by an "anonymous" who called him "fat Karlin", but that's justified imo).

    How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe.
     
    Karlin's primarily a Russian nationalist, and iirc he's stated in the past that he doesn't care that much about the demographic transformation of western Europe...and why should he? Maybe the resulting decline and destabilization of those countries (which are mostly hostile to Russia anyway) might even be advantageous to Russia (note: this doesn't mean I believe in those retarded conspiracy theories of the sort "Putin is behind the refugee crisis).
    Net nationalists often have this naive idea that there is some kind of nationalist international of the white race in which we're all brothers...that's a naive illusion imo.
    But I do wonder what audience AK has in mind with resentful anti-Ukrainian pieces like this (and it's not like it's anything new, he's made exactly the same point many times before). Apart from the various tribalistic Ukrainians and Russians who have ended up in America, but cling tenaciously to their old loyalties, why should anybody commenting on a site like Unz review care about this?

    (note: this doesn’t mean I believe in those retarded conspiracy theories of the sort “Putin is behind the refugee crisis).

    Lol such conspiracy theories, will be directly contradicted by the reality that Putin and his friends and employees put property and/or children in Western Europe.

    Putin’s family has some nice property in France, for example – I doubt he wants the Camp of Saints to climb over the fences of his children’s French seaside mansion.

    their old loyalties, why should anybody commenting on a site like Unz review care about this?

    Isn’t it Karlin’s job to report this topic for his overseas readers (to put it in the English-speaking world), which are not all insular American/rednecks that climbed over the fence from other parts of Unz review?

    However, Karlin has not reported 1% of this topic, about how sensitive Ukrainians are.

    From Karlin’s discussion, I can imagine international readers probably still have no idea how radical, angry and crazy, many Ukrainian “patriots” are if you talk to them about language topics.

    So maybe he could have focused more singularly on the topic, but then, I don’t think he wants to persuade anyone about this, or write such focused things.

  135. @German_reader
    I've always been opposed to EU or NATO accession for Ukraine, it's an insane idea imo, bound to create severe conflict with Russia (and provide no benefit to genuine German interests).
    I don't see the point though in endlessly going on about "fake and gay nations" (unless it's AK's goal to confirm fears about great Russian chauvinism and its imperialist baggage).

    The problem is that EU/NATO accession for Ukraine, and the backlash, that is driving this. The Kremlin doesn’t care when Russians are treated like dirt in Central Asia and the Caucasus. Whether someone objectively considers Russia to be expansionist/chauvinist or not is besides the point when it’s already consensus amongst anyone who matters in any eu state that matters that they are and policy is made accordingly.

  136. @Beckow
    Is it generally assumed in Poland that that the term 'Polska' is a derivative of 'pole'=field?

    In other words, the field-people or farmers. I have assumed that is the case and then I run into a linguist who claims that it is an ancient religious term. But there were also 'Polyane' in the area of today's Ukraine.

    The term 'Cech' also has few derivations, one I like is the 'highlander' (the original Czech tribe home base were the highlands immediately west of Prague). But there are a few other etymologies, incl. derived from 'singers or travelling entertainers'. The official one is of course the patriarch 'Cech', but that begs the question what was his name based on. Bohemia only refers to the western 2/3 of Czechia (the east is Moravia and has always been called that).

    The word Bohemia has the same root as Bayern (Bavaria). Based on that the hapless Vaclav Havel once claimed to Western visitors that Czechs were actually 'Celts'...

    But there were also ‘Polyane’ in the area of today’s Ukraine.

    Not only were there Polyane within Ukraine (Central and Dniepr region), but they were the largest of the Slavic tribes that were part of the mix out of which the later Ruthenians and Ukrainians cam from. The great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky felt that Ukrainian history could indeed be interpreted as beginning with the inclusion of just this Slavic tribe within modern Ukrainian territory. Were they related to the Polyani of Poland? Nobody knows for sure, but I think that it’s quite possible.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...Were they related to the Polyani of Poland?
     
    Neighbouring tribes (or nations) seldom have names that are almost identical. It would make it hard to communicate. That suggests that the 'Pole, Polyan' names refer to something more generic, e.g. they both could be known primarily as farmers because they worked the fields ('pole' or 'polye').

    The problem for modern Ukrainian nationalists is that the name 'Ukraine' is quite recent (17th century?), and that it means 'borderlands'. The nation living there was known by different names, regional terms like Galicians, or simply as a branch of Russians, e.g. Malorussians, Rusins, etc...

    I have no issue with the modern Ukrainian nation, nations form and rename themselves all the time. But it would ahistoric to refer to the medieval people living in that region as Ukrainians, they would not recognise it. Let's just call them the 'ancestors of Ukrainians'.

    This is in no way specific to Ukrainians, it equally applies to half of the nations in eastern Europe, from Rumanians to Latvians, those are neologisms created in 19th century.
    , @AP
    A Polish nationalist once told me that this is proof that Ukrainians and Poles are one people but that the evil Scandinavians separated Ukrainians from Poles, forcing the Orthodox religion upon them which solidified the division.
    , @Gerard2

    Not only were there Polyane within Ukraine (Central and Dniepr region), but they were the largest of the Slavic tribes that were part of the mix out of which the later Ruthenians and Ukrainians cam from.
     
    Utter,contemptible bollocks from the queen of cretinism: Mr Hack/Spack/Twat

    simply untrue you idiot, worse than reading treeleaves


    The great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky

     

    LOL...another failed, pseudo-scientific cretin who know serious person considers as "great"
    ...but I I forget...aren't you the same moron who claimed Taras Kuzio is "great" or some other nonsense over somebody who is both a non-entity and an idiot
  137. @German_reader

    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader
     
    I don't remember AK deleting any of my comments (iirc he deleted some by an "anonymous" who called him "fat Karlin", but that's justified imo).

    How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe.
     
    Karlin's primarily a Russian nationalist, and iirc he's stated in the past that he doesn't care that much about the demographic transformation of western Europe...and why should he? Maybe the resulting decline and destabilization of those countries (which are mostly hostile to Russia anyway) might even be advantageous to Russia (note: this doesn't mean I believe in those retarded conspiracy theories of the sort "Putin is behind the refugee crisis).
    Net nationalists often have this naive idea that there is some kind of nationalist international of the white race in which we're all brothers...that's a naive illusion imo.
    But I do wonder what audience AK has in mind with resentful anti-Ukrainian pieces like this (and it's not like it's anything new, he's made exactly the same point many times before). Apart from the various tribalistic Ukrainians and Russians who have ended up in America, but cling tenaciously to their old loyalties, why should anybody commenting on a site like Unz review care about this?

    But I do wonder what audience AK has in mind with resentful anti-Ukrainian pieces like this (and it’s not like it’s anything new, he’s made exactly the same point many times before)…I don’t see the point though in endlessly going on about “fake and gay nations” (unless it’s AK’s goal to confirm fears about great Russian chauvinism and its imperialist baggage).

    It’s refreshing to see that somebody who’s not a part of a ‘tribalistic Ukrainian’ formation feels this way about Karlin’s incessant butthurt pronunciations about Ukraine and Ukrainians. Well, can you really expect any more from a Russian chauvinist?

  138. @AnonFromTN
    If NATO wants to commit suicide, it should accept Ukraine. LDNR is not relevant here, what matters is the state of Ukraine. It could have been a country, alas. If it were, it wouldn’t need any NATO. But its “leaders” (all of them since 1991; Porky is a thief first and foremost, but so were Kravchuk, Kuchma, Yushchenko, and Yanukovich) cared about lining their pockets and did not give a hoot about the country. Hence we have what we have.

    Putin once said about EU-Ukraine relationship: “It’s a dating that will never result in a marriage”. I don’t think Ukraine is interested in marriage, because they already had one – to Russia.

    OK, Russia can be tough on Ukraine, they might slap them around once in a while, but that’s because they love them and they don’t want them to get out of order.

    But Ukraine wants to explore the joys of “democracy” – multiple partners with whom she can whore around. And her western partners will gladly pimp her around for some fun. One day Ukraine will be broke, her youth spent and nowhere to go. They will return to Russia begging for mercy and they will resume their traditional role – being a burden to Russia.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    If the current trends in Russian popular opinion continue, Ukraine might come back begging, but won’t get anything. Russians came to resent parasites of all stripes, particularly the vermin claiming “brotherhood”.

    So-called West had only one use for Ukraine: as a battering ram against Russia. Now that most real rulers of the West realized just how rotten that would-be ram is, the West is losing interest. Have you noticed that mentioning Ukraine in Western MSM became rare? Mentioning Ukraine, along with mentioning Kosovo, Darfur, or South Sudan, is now considered bad form in polite society, like farting in church.
  139. @Unzerker
    Poland comes to mind.
    They are quite aggressively denying the German history of the formerly German parts of their country.

    So now we are in this weird situation that the famous German trade city of Danzig has to be called Gdansk, and that Breslau is now spelled Wrocław. It even has to be spelled with a weird letter that nobody has ever used before or knows how to pronounce.

    What is even stranger is that in my language, Dutch, we still use the German spelling for cities like Warschau and Krakau. Cities which have always been Polish. But Danzig, one of the most important trading ports for the Dutch, which was full of Dutch people and even has Dutch architecture, well that city suddenly has to be called by a different name after 800 years.

    Fake and Gay

    Well, official website of city of Gdańsk calls the city in German: Danzig.
    But in English Gdansk

    Of course Unzerker was ignorant enough not to look at official website of the city.
    Instead he created some scary conspiracy theory.

    https://www.gdansk.pl/de/touristisch/touristeninformation,a,3028

    Occam’s razor is that most foreigners (including journalists) do not know what Breslau / Danzig is and are unable to connect with cities Wroclaw and Gdansk in Poland.

    And when they visit Poland and Gdansk, they book flight directly to Gdansk Airport. And look for rooms in Gdansk’s hotels. As most airlines do not tranlsate names of some local cities into dozens of languages .
    It is much simpler to use local official spelling.

    This is the same phenomenon as Brunswick becoming Braunschweig.
    These cities became too irrelevant to have their own name in other languages.
    Then people start using local names, as you can’t remeber millions of cities and their names.

    Germans still use Danzig and Breslau becasue these cities are relevant enough for them to have easy spelling.

    But generally only Warsaw and Cracow stayed important enough to have and international name.

  140. anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme
    It's a result, I suspect, of schoolteacher propaganda. I remember my father's contempt for what he called Nineteenth Century Schoolteacher Nationalism.

    I don't know any Scots who give a hoot about "Scotch" but no doubt some exist. Prats!

    Oh, they exist alright. “That’s the drink, not the people!”, I have heard many times.

    Reading the wikipedia article – clearly written by one of those 19th c. schoolmarms – I think your father might have been on to something:

    …in 1872 the Scottish school system was initially placed under a “Scotch Education Department” with offices in London. In 1918, as a result of objections from within Scotland, the department was moved to Edinburgh and renamed the Scottish Education Department.

    Sounds like a confection of proto-SJW teachers who needed to justify their dislike of their English superiors. Accusing them of being tone-deaf and offensive probably helped get the office moved back up north. The very next paragraph:

    John Kenneth Galbraith in his book The Scotch… documents how the descendants of 19th century pioneers from Scotlandaffectionately referred to themselves as Scotch.

    Even granting that the Scottish were sincere, that’s a remarkably short turnaround from “perfectly normal” to “deeply offensive”. “Fake”, and, of course, “gay”.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    I don't know the history of the move of the Education Department to Edinburgh but there's a fair chance that it was seen as a move to protect the superiority of the Scottish schools, a superiority that started after the Reformation and ended only in the last couple of decades.

    I can't see any virtue at all in having had English civil servants running a school system that was foreign to their experience.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Thankfully, the descendants of Scottish Protestants living in America generally refer to themselves as "Scotch-Irish." So at least sanity prevails on this side of the Atlantic.

    As for me, I myself am 1/4 SCOTCH-Irish.
  141. @Cyrano
    Putin once said about EU-Ukraine relationship: “It’s a dating that will never result in a marriage”. I don’t think Ukraine is interested in marriage, because they already had one – to Russia.

    OK, Russia can be tough on Ukraine, they might slap them around once in a while, but that’s because they love them and they don’t want them to get out of order.

    But Ukraine wants to explore the joys of “democracy” – multiple partners with whom she can whore around. And her western partners will gladly pimp her around for some fun. One day Ukraine will be broke, her youth spent and nowhere to go. They will return to Russia begging for mercy and they will resume their traditional role – being a burden to Russia.

    If the current trends in Russian popular opinion continue, Ukraine might come back begging, but won’t get anything. Russians came to resent parasites of all stripes, particularly the vermin claiming “brotherhood”.

    So-called West had only one use for Ukraine: as a battering ram against Russia. Now that most real rulers of the West realized just how rotten that would-be ram is, the West is losing interest. Have you noticed that mentioning Ukraine in Western MSM became rare? Mentioning Ukraine, along with mentioning Kosovo, Darfur, or South Sudan, is now considered bad form in polite society, like farting in church.

  142. @Guillaume Tell

    « I don’t think you have the necessary qualifications ».
     
    We’ve met before?

    Where is it that I was

    « playing racist in chief »
     
    ?

    You are obviously an imbecile, to utter unwarrantex tatements as those.

    Racial differences among the Slavs are none of your business, as long as your western societies remain homo-genous. Because, remember – you are all equal.

  143. @reiner Tor

    It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.
     
    How? A group might speak a distinct dialect and be genetically different from the rest (Occitans?), but if they believe themselves to be part of another nation ("French"), they will not be a separate nation. (So, no Occitanian Nation, at least not for the moment.)

    They might possess some sort of group allegiance or consciousness of difference with other groups without actually having the fully fledged idea of a nation (like some non-historic nations in Eastern Europe before the 19th century).

  144. @Felix Keverich
    Speaking of fake and gay countries, I think we need to discuss the emerging conflict between Russia and Belarus. Kremlin is phasing out oil subsidies for Belarus, and Lukashenka is going nuts about it.

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.

    Belarus is too small and isolated to survive on its own. Lukashenka will be brought down to hill in due time.

    • Replies: @DFH
    You're right, it should be part of Poland
  145. @songbird
    I think the split really shows how slavery was geo-deterministic, which is really funny given how it is presented as a moral conflict - good vs. evil.

    To my mind, that is really one of the core questions of the moment: how much will maps determine going forward? How much does it matter that Europe is near Africa? That Germany is the center of Europe? Etc.

    It’s a bit of both.

    For either side in the Civil War, their perception of slavery was that it was either

    1) A moral good and a geo-specific good
    2) A moral bad and a geo-specific bad
    3) A moral bad but a geo-specific good

  146. @Thorfinnsson
    I think it's strange, but they don't. The Confederate flag has expanded from becoming merely a Confederate symbol to being a "country" (or redneck) symbol.

    I've seen snowmobiles up here with Confederate flags for instance. There's a house a few blocks away which flies and American flag, a Confederate flag, and a Green Bay Packers (American football team) flag.

    Three flags over Wisconsin...

    Indeed.

    I would never fly the Confederate flag, not for the usual SJW reasons, but because, unlike most SJWs, I’ve read the various works by Confederate and Unionist writers and find the latter marginally preferable.

    You mention Wisconsin. The average Badger in 1861-65 had racial beliefs similar to Southerners, once he actually met blacks. Anti-slavery sentiment and “racism” were, of course, seen as complimentary to Republicans, not contradictory. As late as 1862, Lincoln himself met with a society of black American civic leaders who had formed an idea of volunteering their position and talents to move ex-slaves back to Africa. Although there were many outright abolitionists and even some Transcendalists, the mainstream position of the average Union soldier marching through Georgia and seeing blacks would be, “Free the slaves – send ’em all back to Africa.”

  147. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Although I will note that the map I've posted has some contextual problems

    For one thing, the Civil War career record of George H. Thomas - from plantation country southside Virginia - shows that many of those "100%" counties just had Unionists not bothering to vote.

    Thomas wanted to fight for the South but was passed over when they were handing out commands, Confederates missed a trick as he is probably the most underrated general of the war.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Thomas wanted to join the Confederacy but was passed over? Cite your sources, please!
  148. @Colin Wright
    Well, to begin with, I'll note that nations are something that exist in people's heads. No people, no nations. Conversely, if a lot of people think the Ukraine is a real nation, it becomes a real nation. Here I'm reminded of the Israel-Palestine dispute. Some Zionists will argue that there never was a Palestinian people. That may or may not be true; but it's not terribly relevant. There is a Palestinian people now; the Zionists created them with their actions.

    That said, it's odd that this piece led off with Georgia as an example of a 'fake and gay' nation. Georgia was an independent kingdom -- and one with a long history -- as recently as the eighteenth century. It's very much a real nation.

    Poland indubitably is as well. Certainly Russia is. Armenia would be. Lithuania, having a long and very distinct existence in the Middle Ages and there very definitely being Lithuanians to boot, seems to me to qualify. Latvia, Estonia, the Ukraine, Finland, and the Czechs all seem like reasonable candidates for nationhood to me. There was little independent political existence before the twentieth century, but each region has a unique history and a people who at least feel themselves to be unique.

    'Belarus,' on the other hand, is pretty 'gay.' That never was a state, and I'm not aware of any abortive nationalist gropings along the lines of those that the Ukraine, say, displayed in both World Wars. Are there 'Belarussians'? Would they riot and take to the woods and form armed bands if Russia just annexed the state outright?

    Now, for fun, we can consider the legitimacy of states that most definitely very much were but thanks to the miracle of modern population replacement now very much aren't: Prussia, the Crimean Khanate. Neither was even a little 'gay' but both are most certainly gone.

    Conversely, we have exciting modern frissons that rest on either fantasy or nothing at all. Modern Greece incorporates a great deal of continental hinterland that was all kinds of things but certainly not anyone related to the ancient Greeks; the 'Greeks' were actually more of a maritime people, spread around seacoasts all around the Aegean and even further afield but rarely extending themselves very far inland. Indeed, in World War Two Greek guerillas often found themselves in the embarassing position of losing out to Tito's Partisans in northern Greece because the peasantry spoke Slavic dialects rather than Greek. No doubt that's been rectified, but the fact remains; modern Greece is largely an invention; most Greeks think of themselves as Greeks because they've been told they're Greeks. The ancient Greeks are long gone, others have indeed moved or been moved into their place, and the lands they lived in don't even match up with modern Greece particularly well in the first place. An early martyr appropriated to the cause of Greek independence apparently wasn't even aware of that identity; as the Ottomans led him to be executed he cried out 'a Romios I was born and a Romios I will die.'.

    Ahem. No, no. Greek. You're Greek. That clear?

    Then there's 'Rumania.' There were various historical states and regions that were incorporated at one time or another into the modern Rumanian state: Wallachia, Bessarabia, Moldovia, Transsylvania, Dobrudja are all names I'm familiar with. But as far as I know, there was no 'Rumania' or even a 'Romania' until the retreat of the Ottoman Empire in the middle of the nineteenth century. Rumanians themselves are a reality, but their state is of decidedly recent -- and hence 'gay' -- provenance. It's difficult to see why Romania should be regarded as authentic if the Ukraine isn't. Perhaps because Russia never absorbed it outright?

    So we've got all sorts of degrees and conditions of national reality. However, the states that have been singled out in this article as artificial don't seem to me to be particularly egregious offenders in this respect. Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don't strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

    “Tranquillo Andronico writes in 1534 that Valachi “now call themselves Romans”. In 1532, Francesco della Valle accompanying Governor Aloisio Gritti to Transylvania, Walachia and Moldavia notes that “they call themselves in their language Romanians (Romei)”. Reporting his mission in Transylvania, the Neapolitan Jesuit Ferrante Capeci writes around 1575 that the inhabitants of those Provinces call themselves “romanesci”. Pierre Lescalopier, relating his voyage from Venice to Constantinople, notes in 1574 that those inhabiting Walachia, Moldavia and the most part of Transylvania say to be descendants of the Romans, calling their language “romanechte”. The learned Lutheran preacher and first Transylvanian Saxon historiograph Johann Lebel attests in 1542 that common Romanians call themselves “Romuini”. The Polish Humanist Stanislaus Orichovius notes as late as 1554 that “these left behind Dacians in their own language are called Romini, after the Romans” The Dalmatian Antonius Verantio, who later would become viceroy of Habsburg Hungary, also states in 1570 that “When they ask somebody whether they can speak Wallachian, they say: do you speak Roman? and whether one is Wallachian they say: are you Roman?”“ (Wikipedia)

    The country is, indeed, somewhat made up, since Stalin-Roosevelt-Churchill transferred parts of it PLUS two million Romanians to “Moldova” and “the Ukraine”, and awarded us the Har-Cov exclave.

  149. @DFH

    Language is power.
     
    Hence the ongoing French and Greek domination of Britain

    Do you know any other country that is afforded 10 bankruptcies in a century, yet still gets to borrow? Greece was, and still is, for UK (and richer EU) what Israel is for US – an enlightened colony, where the occupying power pays of the privilege of satisfying its dream of connecting to “the ancient”.

    Also, Jeremy Hunt spoke to the French in French. When was the last time a British diplomat spoke Italian to Italians, or Spanish to Spaniards, or Nederlandese to the Dutch? France is the major connection of UK to EU, and not only due to geography.

  150. @Lars Porsena
    There are theories (I happen to think it is a good one) that these old terms are political, not ethnic. Much like the horde armies from the east were comprised of all sorts of ethnic tribes banded together under some great leader. The idea would be that originally, a group like the Rus were not a tribe but an alliance or a gang, like the bloods or the crips or the latin kings. So they would have had recruits or members (nobles) from different ethnic clans, slavic, baltic, uralic, and norse, and whatever else was around.

    I have seen someone in comments on this website link to a translation of what supposed to be one of the oldest Old Church Slavonic documents, it was a long time ago, but I do remember that it included a list of attendees to some Kievan Rus thing, and the names listed included noticeably slavic, germanic and (I would guess) Finnish names already in their oldest texts.

    Sort of like the contemporary Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne neighboring them, it was not based around an ethnic type or single culture but an international military/political order. The HRE under Charlemagne originally included all the French, benelux lowlanders, and northern Italians in addition to the Germans, and one of the original 5 elector states that voted, best 3 out of 5, for the holy roman emporer was a slavic state that later named itself after a brand of bananas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFDOI24RRAE

    Well, that idea certainly fits with the history of the Cossacks.

  151. @Colin Wright
    Well, to begin with, I'll note that nations are something that exist in people's heads. No people, no nations. Conversely, if a lot of people think the Ukraine is a real nation, it becomes a real nation. Here I'm reminded of the Israel-Palestine dispute. Some Zionists will argue that there never was a Palestinian people. That may or may not be true; but it's not terribly relevant. There is a Palestinian people now; the Zionists created them with their actions.

    That said, it's odd that this piece led off with Georgia as an example of a 'fake and gay' nation. Georgia was an independent kingdom -- and one with a long history -- as recently as the eighteenth century. It's very much a real nation.

    Poland indubitably is as well. Certainly Russia is. Armenia would be. Lithuania, having a long and very distinct existence in the Middle Ages and there very definitely being Lithuanians to boot, seems to me to qualify. Latvia, Estonia, the Ukraine, Finland, and the Czechs all seem like reasonable candidates for nationhood to me. There was little independent political existence before the twentieth century, but each region has a unique history and a people who at least feel themselves to be unique.

    'Belarus,' on the other hand, is pretty 'gay.' That never was a state, and I'm not aware of any abortive nationalist gropings along the lines of those that the Ukraine, say, displayed in both World Wars. Are there 'Belarussians'? Would they riot and take to the woods and form armed bands if Russia just annexed the state outright?

    Now, for fun, we can consider the legitimacy of states that most definitely very much were but thanks to the miracle of modern population replacement now very much aren't: Prussia, the Crimean Khanate. Neither was even a little 'gay' but both are most certainly gone.

    Conversely, we have exciting modern frissons that rest on either fantasy or nothing at all. Modern Greece incorporates a great deal of continental hinterland that was all kinds of things but certainly not anyone related to the ancient Greeks; the 'Greeks' were actually more of a maritime people, spread around seacoasts all around the Aegean and even further afield but rarely extending themselves very far inland. Indeed, in World War Two Greek guerillas often found themselves in the embarassing position of losing out to Tito's Partisans in northern Greece because the peasantry spoke Slavic dialects rather than Greek. No doubt that's been rectified, but the fact remains; modern Greece is largely an invention; most Greeks think of themselves as Greeks because they've been told they're Greeks. The ancient Greeks are long gone, others have indeed moved or been moved into their place, and the lands they lived in don't even match up with modern Greece particularly well in the first place. An early martyr appropriated to the cause of Greek independence apparently wasn't even aware of that identity; as the Ottomans led him to be executed he cried out 'a Romios I was born and a Romios I will die.'.

    Ahem. No, no. Greek. You're Greek. That clear?

    Then there's 'Rumania.' There were various historical states and regions that were incorporated at one time or another into the modern Rumanian state: Wallachia, Bessarabia, Moldovia, Transsylvania, Dobrudja are all names I'm familiar with. But as far as I know, there was no 'Rumania' or even a 'Romania' until the retreat of the Ottoman Empire in the middle of the nineteenth century. Rumanians themselves are a reality, but their state is of decidedly recent -- and hence 'gay' -- provenance. It's difficult to see why Romania should be regarded as authentic if the Ukraine isn't. Perhaps because Russia never absorbed it outright?

    So we've got all sorts of degrees and conditions of national reality. However, the states that have been singled out in this article as artificial don't seem to me to be particularly egregious offenders in this respect. Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don't strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

    What is a “Romios”?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.
    , @Colin Wright
    'What is a “Romios”?'

    Apparently, what the Christian inhabitants of that part of the Southern Balkans then part of the Ottoman Empire and now Greece called themselves.
  152. @LondonBob
    Thomas wanted to fight for the South but was passed over when they were handing out commands, Confederates missed a trick as he is probably the most underrated general of the war.

    Thomas wanted to join the Confederacy but was passed over? Cite your sources, please!

  153. @Swarthy Greek
    Belarus is too small and isolated to survive on its own. Lukashenka will be brought down to hill in due time.

    You’re right, it should be part of Poland

  154. The opinion of an ex US military fella who could be considered a historian of the period as he has had some work published. He applied for and was turned down for the VMI position and was never offered a meaningful command, just didn’t have the political connections in Virginia.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    That sounds very interesting and I'd like to read anything on those lines. Was this opinion published or related personally to you?

    I knew that Thomas was turned down for VMI, but had never heard of any speculation about a desire to join the actual Confederate cause.
  155. @anon
    Oh, they exist alright. "That's the drink, not the people!", I have heard many times.

    Reading the wikipedia article - clearly written by one of those 19th c. schoolmarms - I think your father might have been on to something:

    ...in 1872 the Scottish school system was initially placed under a "Scotch Education Department" with offices in London. In 1918, as a result of objections from within Scotland, the department was moved to Edinburgh and renamed the Scottish Education Department.
     
    Sounds like a confection of proto-SJW teachers who needed to justify their dislike of their English superiors. Accusing them of being tone-deaf and offensive probably helped get the office moved back up north. The very next paragraph:

    John Kenneth Galbraith in his book The Scotch... documents how the descendants of 19th century pioneers from Scotland... affectionately referred to themselves as Scotch.
     
    Even granting that the Scottish were sincere, that's a remarkably short turnaround from "perfectly normal" to "deeply offensive". "Fake", and, of course, "gay".

    I don’t know the history of the move of the Education Department to Edinburgh but there’s a fair chance that it was seen as a move to protect the superiority of the Scottish schools, a superiority that started after the Reformation and ended only in the last couple of decades.

    I can’t see any virtue at all in having had English civil servants running a school system that was foreign to their experience.

    • Replies: @anon
    Sure, but that's got nothing to do with why "scotch" should suddenly become offensive
  156. @anon
    Oh, they exist alright. "That's the drink, not the people!", I have heard many times.

    Reading the wikipedia article - clearly written by one of those 19th c. schoolmarms - I think your father might have been on to something:

    ...in 1872 the Scottish school system was initially placed under a "Scotch Education Department" with offices in London. In 1918, as a result of objections from within Scotland, the department was moved to Edinburgh and renamed the Scottish Education Department.
     
    Sounds like a confection of proto-SJW teachers who needed to justify their dislike of their English superiors. Accusing them of being tone-deaf and offensive probably helped get the office moved back up north. The very next paragraph:

    John Kenneth Galbraith in his book The Scotch... documents how the descendants of 19th century pioneers from Scotland... affectionately referred to themselves as Scotch.
     
    Even granting that the Scottish were sincere, that's a remarkably short turnaround from "perfectly normal" to "deeply offensive". "Fake", and, of course, "gay".

    Thankfully, the descendants of Scottish Protestants living in America generally refer to themselves as “Scotch-Irish.” So at least sanity prevails on this side of the Atlantic.

    As for me, I myself am 1/4 SCOTCH-Irish.

  157. @LondonBob
    The opinion of an ex US military fella who could be considered a historian of the period as he has had some work published. He applied for and was turned down for the VMI position and was never offered a meaningful command, just didn't have the political connections in Virginia.

    That sounds very interesting and I’d like to read anything on those lines. Was this opinion published or related personally to you?

    I knew that Thomas was turned down for VMI, but had never heard of any speculation about a desire to join the actual Confederate cause.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Afraid I can't be more specific but he really knows his stuff. One of those things we will never really know as he was never offered a Confederate command to turn down.
  158. @Mr. Hack

    But there were also ‘Polyane’ in the area of today’s Ukraine.
     
    Not only were there Polyane within Ukraine (Central and Dniepr region), but they were the largest of the Slavic tribes that were part of the mix out of which the later Ruthenians and Ukrainians cam from. The great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky felt that Ukrainian history could indeed be interpreted as beginning with the inclusion of just this Slavic tribe within modern Ukrainian territory. Were they related to the Polyani of Poland? Nobody knows for sure, but I think that it's quite possible.

    …Were they related to the Polyani of Poland?

    Neighbouring tribes (or nations) seldom have names that are almost identical. It would make it hard to communicate. That suggests that the ‘Pole, Polyan’ names refer to something more generic, e.g. they both could be known primarily as farmers because they worked the fields (‘pole’ or ‘polye’).

    The problem for modern Ukrainian nationalists is that the name ‘Ukraine’ is quite recent (17th century?), and that it means ‘borderlands’. The nation living there was known by different names, regional terms like Galicians, or simply as a branch of Russians, e.g. Malorussians, Rusins, etc…

    I have no issue with the modern Ukrainian nation, nations form and rename themselves all the time. But it would ahistoric to refer to the medieval people living in that region as Ukrainians, they would not recognise it. Let’s just call them the ‘ancestors of Ukrainians’.

    This is in no way specific to Ukrainians, it equally applies to half of the nations in eastern Europe, from Rumanians to Latvians, those are neologisms created in 19th century.

  159. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    That sounds very interesting and I'd like to read anything on those lines. Was this opinion published or related personally to you?

    I knew that Thomas was turned down for VMI, but had never heard of any speculation about a desire to join the actual Confederate cause.

    Afraid I can’t be more specific but he really knows his stuff. One of those things we will never really know as he was never offered a Confederate command to turn down.

  160. @dearieme
    I don't know the history of the move of the Education Department to Edinburgh but there's a fair chance that it was seen as a move to protect the superiority of the Scottish schools, a superiority that started after the Reformation and ended only in the last couple of decades.

    I can't see any virtue at all in having had English civil servants running a school system that was foreign to their experience.

    Sure, but that’s got nothing to do with why “scotch” should suddenly become offensive

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    19th Century schoolmasters are usually to blame. It's probably something to do with Latin or French grammar. Inmthe 18 C Scotch was acceptable.
  161. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    What is a "Romios"?

    a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    danke
    , @Colin Wright
    'a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.'


    It's also my impression that the whole connection to the ancient Hellenes schtick is largely for foreign consumption/ego-stroking. In most respects, modern Greeks seem to look back to the late Byzantine Empire for their sense of identity. Their last -- and disastrous -- move in the Greco-Turkish war of 1920-21 was to try to seize Constantinople from the occupying Western powers.

    Constantinople wasn't even an ancient Greek city of any note. It was, however, the center of the Byzantine Empire. The move was nonsensical if one sees modern Greeks as heirs to the Greeks of Homer. It made perfect sense if one sees them as Byzantines revived.
  162. In bilingual Wales, the Welsh speakers do not mix languages. When speaking English they use English names. Wales not Cymru, Swansea not Abertawe, Brecon not Aberhonddu (despite Brecon being a much older form), Abergavenny/Y Fenni (both forms being Welsh!).

    A very few English speakers in the South do use Welsh forms to emphasize their nationalism as do some English immigrants who want to please but don’t quite get it. The issue in Wales is language equality on signs. That has backfired badly. Labour party socialists view the world through a lense of equalism. So they have now mandated signs with translations of Welsh names into English when none existed before. This loses the point!

  163. @anon
    Sure, but that's got nothing to do with why "scotch" should suddenly become offensive

    19th Century schoolmasters are usually to blame. It’s probably something to do with Latin or French grammar. Inmthe 18 C Scotch was acceptable.

  164. @Blindspots of galactic proportions
    Russia comes to mind too.

    Königsberg - Kaliningrad.
    What about Petrograd (Germanized) - St. Petersburg - Leningrad - St. Petersburg transition?

    Poland denying German history? Sure.

    Here's Russian admiral of the Baltic Fleet (stationed in Königsberg) in the last few weeks:

    Igor Mukhametshin, the Vice Admiral in command of Russia's Baltic Fleet, was filmed telling officers and ratings that the Enlightenment thinker was a "traitor" who wrote "incomprehensible books" and begged for university tenure.

    "Kant was a person who betrayed his country, who humiliated himself and begged on his knees for a teaching chair at the university. He wrote some incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read," Admiral Mukhametshin said in a video obtained by local website Novy Kaliningrad and published on Youtube on Monday.

    Petrograd was the ‘Russification’ of Sankt Peterburg: “On 1 September 1914, after the outbreak of World War I, the Imperial government renamed the city Petrograd, meaning “Peter’s City”, to remove the German words Sankt and Burg”.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    What's unacceptable is in Russian , the phonetic of New York (Нью )is used, but for other non American places the "new" is used literallly as in Папуа - Новая Гвинея for Papua New Guinea and the same thing for New Zealand
  165. @Thorfinnsson
    The diplomatic dispute between Greece and Macedonia. This doesn't fall into the category of a geopolitical dispute either. The Greek demand is that Macedonia (which in Greece is always referred to as FYROM or Skopje) change its name.

    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje. But at its peak Macedonia responded to Greek hostility (Greece has been single handedly blocking Macedonia's accession to NATO and the EU) with a highly amusing campaign of building massive statues of Alexander the Great (whom the Macedonians claim was, somehow, a slav). Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.

    Here's a letter that mostly Greek classical scholars wrote to Obama a decade ago: http://macedonia-evidence.org/obama-letter.html

    What's unique about this dispute is that Greek outrage is over what another country calls itself, rather than what other people call Greece.

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It's certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they're descendants of ancient Macedon.

    Not really in the same category as these disputes, but related, are places which governments insist on renaming. Very common in former European colonies, and it was also common in the USSR and East Germany.

    Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.

    Actually, the practice dates back to the late 19th century.

    What is it like to get a kick out of talking about things you clearly so know little about?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Feels_good_man.jpg
    , @Epigon
    Calling historical Slavs of Strymon valley, Macedonia, Thessaly and Epirus - Bulgarians, while telling others they know little about history.

    Priceless.

  166. @Philip Owen
    Mumbai. British Indians still pointedly refer to it as Bombay. Indeed, the local High Court is still called Bombay Court, lawyers being conservative and tricky.

    "The Ukraine" is grammatically correct as the translation of Ukrania is March, a borderland where inhabitants have rights to bear arms. March is preceded by a definite article. The Welsh Marches, The Roussilon March, The Brandenburg Mark. There is an exception with the early Anglish Kingdom of Mercia, the name being an early form of March.

    Ukraine is only correct insofaras the Ukrainian government has requested that it is so called in official correspondence.

    “The Ukraine” is grammatically correct as the translation of Ukrania is March, a borderland where inhabitants have rights to bear arms. March is preceded by a definite article. The Welsh Marches, The Roussilon March, The Brandenburg Mark. There is an exception with the early Anglish Kingdom of Mercia, the name being an early form of March.

    I don’t recall journalists having any problem calling the region in Croatia that was a Serbian stronghold during the Yugoslav wars “Krajina” instead of “the Krajina.” So I don’t see why it should be so hard to just say Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    They want to be known as "Ukraine" without "the" fine. In turn, I'll refer to Krajina, Crimea and Donbass without "the".

    I'll also spell "Kiev", "Kharkov" and "Odessa" as such. I'll make exceptions for "Lviv" and "Kyiv Post".
  167. @DFH

    The ancient Macedonians were considered barbarians by the ancient Greeks and vice versa and always fought on opposite sides….including during Alexanders conquests

     

    That is not true, Herodotus talked about their Greek ancestry and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games because of it. The only time most of the Greeks fought on the same side (before being conquered by Macedon) was during the Persian invasions, and although the Macedonians did medise, so did many other Greeks (including the Thebans).

    That is not true, Herodotus talked about their Greek ancestry and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games because of it. The only time most of the Greeks fought on the same side (before being conquered by Macedon) was during the Persian invasions, and although the Macedonians did medise, so did many other Greeks (including the Thebans).

    Just prior to the Balkan Wars (of 1912/13), even the portion that became part of Greece was heavily demographically mixed between Greeks, Bulgarians (today “Macedonians”) and Turks. Census numbers relating to this period remain hotly contested down to the present day, but it is clear that the region only became overwhelmingly Greek after the population exchange with Turkey brought a million more Greeks to Greece. A separate, smaller population exchange with Bulgaria, as well as a general exodus of Bulgarians to Bulgaria after WWI and, after the Greek Civil War, to Yugoslavia, also thinned out slavic numbers.

  168. So by this logic all countries that were once colonized are “fake and gay.” India with Bombay/Mumbai, Slovakia with Pressburg/Bratislava, Sri Lanka/Ceylon, Myanmar/Burma, etc.

    It’s sort of an admission that Ukraine was a colony of Russia, rather than an integral part of Russia.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Sri Lanka is pretty fake. Unsure if it's gay or not.
    , @Anon
    The Bombay/Mumbai thing was pretty stupid. But it's a self-esteem thing. I can't really judge the others except Sri Lanka, which probably ought to just be "Lanka". But the main UK island calls itself "Great Britain", so whatever.
  169. @Colin Wright
    Well, to begin with, I'll note that nations are something that exist in people's heads. No people, no nations. Conversely, if a lot of people think the Ukraine is a real nation, it becomes a real nation. Here I'm reminded of the Israel-Palestine dispute. Some Zionists will argue that there never was a Palestinian people. That may or may not be true; but it's not terribly relevant. There is a Palestinian people now; the Zionists created them with their actions.

    That said, it's odd that this piece led off with Georgia as an example of a 'fake and gay' nation. Georgia was an independent kingdom -- and one with a long history -- as recently as the eighteenth century. It's very much a real nation.

    Poland indubitably is as well. Certainly Russia is. Armenia would be. Lithuania, having a long and very distinct existence in the Middle Ages and there very definitely being Lithuanians to boot, seems to me to qualify. Latvia, Estonia, the Ukraine, Finland, and the Czechs all seem like reasonable candidates for nationhood to me. There was little independent political existence before the twentieth century, but each region has a unique history and a people who at least feel themselves to be unique.

    'Belarus,' on the other hand, is pretty 'gay.' That never was a state, and I'm not aware of any abortive nationalist gropings along the lines of those that the Ukraine, say, displayed in both World Wars. Are there 'Belarussians'? Would they riot and take to the woods and form armed bands if Russia just annexed the state outright?

    Now, for fun, we can consider the legitimacy of states that most definitely very much were but thanks to the miracle of modern population replacement now very much aren't: Prussia, the Crimean Khanate. Neither was even a little 'gay' but both are most certainly gone.

    Conversely, we have exciting modern frissons that rest on either fantasy or nothing at all. Modern Greece incorporates a great deal of continental hinterland that was all kinds of things but certainly not anyone related to the ancient Greeks; the 'Greeks' were actually more of a maritime people, spread around seacoasts all around the Aegean and even further afield but rarely extending themselves very far inland. Indeed, in World War Two Greek guerillas often found themselves in the embarassing position of losing out to Tito's Partisans in northern Greece because the peasantry spoke Slavic dialects rather than Greek. No doubt that's been rectified, but the fact remains; modern Greece is largely an invention; most Greeks think of themselves as Greeks because they've been told they're Greeks. The ancient Greeks are long gone, others have indeed moved or been moved into their place, and the lands they lived in don't even match up with modern Greece particularly well in the first place. An early martyr appropriated to the cause of Greek independence apparently wasn't even aware of that identity; as the Ottomans led him to be executed he cried out 'a Romios I was born and a Romios I will die.'.

    Ahem. No, no. Greek. You're Greek. That clear?

    Then there's 'Rumania.' There were various historical states and regions that were incorporated at one time or another into the modern Rumanian state: Wallachia, Bessarabia, Moldovia, Transsylvania, Dobrudja are all names I'm familiar with. But as far as I know, there was no 'Rumania' or even a 'Romania' until the retreat of the Ottoman Empire in the middle of the nineteenth century. Rumanians themselves are a reality, but their state is of decidedly recent -- and hence 'gay' -- provenance. It's difficult to see why Romania should be regarded as authentic if the Ukraine isn't. Perhaps because Russia never absorbed it outright?

    So we've got all sorts of degrees and conditions of national reality. However, the states that have been singled out in this article as artificial don't seem to me to be particularly egregious offenders in this respect. Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don't strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

    The native name of ‘Georgia/Грузия’ is Sakartvelo (საქართველო) as it appears on Georgian passports.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    I asked a Georgian what the name of his country was in the Georgian tongue. He got confused, then said, in English, "the Land." I could never make it clear to him what I was asking about.

    So, Sakartvelo, "land of Kartvelians." You learn something new every day.
  170. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    RELATED!

    I had a two-hour long argument with two people about "Ukrainian nationalism."

    I need help from Anatoly and the masses of this blog with these questions:

    I am looking for empirical historical/social answers to the following questions

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?
    2) Are “Russian-speaking” populations in eastern Ukraine the result of Stalinist forced population transfers? Or have they been there a good long while?
    3) Didn't Nikolai Gogol once say his soul was both Russian and Ukrainian? Are there any great Ukrainian poets and figures from the past who wouldn't agree with him?

    Perspectives from Ukrainian StormFags or rather more sensible lads like AP are welcome! Diversity is strength!

    1. No. But Russians also perished. Ukrainian nationalists once claimed 7 million Ukrainians died (1 million ore than the number of Jews alleged to have died in the Holocaust). But modern consensus is a total of about 6 million deaths in the USSR, half of whom were in the Ukrainian SSR. So Ukraine was about 1/3 of the USSR population but half of the people who were starved to death. Within Ukraine the countryside was starved while the cities were fed. This meant ethnic Ukrainians were disproportionately affected (cities had large Russian and Jewish populations).

    2. They’ve been there since the late 18th century in small numbers, but increased from the late 19th to 20th centuries with industrialization (Ukrainian farmers would rather get fresh lands in Siberia than move into some factory town). However Stalin’s work increased % of Russian population relative to Ukrainian for reasons described previously.

    3. Yes, he did. There are many less world-famous Ukrainians who would disagree.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    There are many less world-famous Ukrainians who would disagree.
     
    Name some less world-famous Ukrainian figures of stature who would disagree.
  171. @Blindspots of galactic proportions
    Russia comes to mind too.

    Königsberg - Kaliningrad.
    What about Petrograd (Germanized) - St. Petersburg - Leningrad - St. Petersburg transition?

    Poland denying German history? Sure.

    Here's Russian admiral of the Baltic Fleet (stationed in Königsberg) in the last few weeks:

    Igor Mukhametshin, the Vice Admiral in command of Russia's Baltic Fleet, was filmed telling officers and ratings that the Enlightenment thinker was a "traitor" who wrote "incomprehensible books" and begged for university tenure.

    "Kant was a person who betrayed his country, who humiliated himself and begged on his knees for a teaching chair at the university. He wrote some incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read," Admiral Mukhametshin said in a video obtained by local website Novy Kaliningrad and published on Youtube on Monday.

    incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read,” Admiral Mukhametshin

    So some stupid Tatar is complaining he cannot understand the books of one of history’s most intelligent men.

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway. For example, reading this website for a year, and we’ve seen no evidence that anyone here e is close to being intelligent enough to discuss Kant.

    Kant’s never going to develop some mass popularity for winning many naming competitions outside his nationality, when only a smallish fraction (even among his own nationality) would ever be clever enough to understand him.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway.
     
    And it's not so surprising contemporary admiral, is not part of the smart fraction.

    Although, I would not be surprised he was not more in the bottom 10% (he apparently does not understand even that Kant was German, and his city was part of Kingdom of Prussia for all but 4 years of his life).

    , @AP
    LOL, this Sovok probably complained about Ukrainians taking down Lenin statues:

    http://24-my.info/i-wrote-some-strange-books-the-head-of-staff-of-the-baltic-fleet-of-the-russian-federation-called-for-sailors-to-speak-out-against-kant/
    , @Epigon
    For a self-proclaimed very intelligent person, you place a huge emphasis on arbitrary, unscientific ramblings and musings from distant past.

    Now tell me, why would a highly intelligent person invest time into discussing non-factual, unscientific ranting of another individual where no conclusive evidence, arguments can exist?
    Something tells me you don't have the capacity to discuss Gauss and Maxwell - LOL at Kant being "one of history's most intelligent men".

    , @The Big Red Scary
    I wasted almost an entire year of my life studying Kant, and looking back, I have to admit intellectual machismo was no small part in my motivation. I wouldn't quite say "there is no there there", but only two basic points are worth discussing-- the categorical imperative and the idea that the mind imposes its own mathematical structure on perception, rather than the other way around. Neither idea is original, but one might be able to profitably use selected readings from Kant as grist for the mill of contemplating them.

    That said, it's rather amusing that Russian admirals have opinions about Kant. I wonder if they sometimes deign to comment on Kaluza and his 5d unification of electromagnetism and general relativity.
  172. Anatoly, I very much enjoy your blog. Questions: are Ukrainians aware of what a jewish operation [(((kaganovich))) of course being in charge] the Holodomor was ? If so, why hold it against Christian Russians?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    For political expediency. When you want to sell your soul to Zionist-run US, you can’t talk about Jewish crimes, so you have to lay the blame elsewhere.

    Besides, the people who do it are not Ukrainians, they are Ukies, who constitute less than 10% of current Ukrainian population. But they are vocal and ruthless, like Zionists in the US, so they don’t give the rest a chance to express their opinions.
  173. @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    Anatoly, I very much enjoy your blog. Questions: are Ukrainians aware of what a jewish operation [(((kaganovich))) of course being in charge] the Holodomor was ? If so, why hold it against Christian Russians?

    For political expediency. When you want to sell your soul to Zionist-run US, you can’t talk about Jewish crimes, so you have to lay the blame elsewhere.

    Besides, the people who do it are not Ukrainians, they are Ukies, who constitute less than 10% of current Ukrainian population. But they are vocal and ruthless, like Zionists in the US, so they don’t give the rest a chance to express their opinions.

  174. @Dmitry

    incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read,” Admiral Mukhametshin
     
    So some stupid Tatar is complaining he cannot understand the books of one of history's most intelligent men.

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway. For example, reading this website for a year, and we've seen no evidence that anyone here e is close to being intelligent enough to discuss Kant.

    Kant's never going to develop some mass popularity for winning many naming competitions outside his nationality, when only a smallish fraction (even among his own nationality) would ever be clever enough to understand him.

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway.

    And it’s not so surprising contemporary admiral, is not part of the smart fraction.

    Although, I would not be surprised he was not more in the bottom 10% (he apparently does not understand even that Kant was German, and his city was part of Kingdom of Prussia for all but 4 years of his life).

  175. @AP
    So by this logic all countries that were once colonized are "fake and gay." India with Bombay/Mumbai, Slovakia with Pressburg/Bratislava, Sri Lanka/Ceylon, Myanmar/Burma, etc.

    It's sort of an admission that Ukraine was a colony of Russia, rather than an integral part of Russia.

    Sri Lanka is pretty fake. Unsure if it’s gay or not.

    • Replies: @Anon
    The (sort of disputed) Prime Minister is.

    You go kill a bunch of LTTE guys and we'll talk about fake though.
  176. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    What is a "Romios"?

    ‘What is a “Romios”?’

    Apparently, what the Christian inhabitants of that part of the Southern Balkans then part of the Ottoman Empire and now Greece called themselves.

  177. @German_reader
    a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.

    danke

  178. @Dmitry

    incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read,” Admiral Mukhametshin
     
    So some stupid Tatar is complaining he cannot understand the books of one of history's most intelligent men.

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway. For example, reading this website for a year, and we've seen no evidence that anyone here e is close to being intelligent enough to discuss Kant.

    Kant's never going to develop some mass popularity for winning many naming competitions outside his nationality, when only a smallish fraction (even among his own nationality) would ever be clever enough to understand him.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    If there is something to worry about, it is more about our epoch than little politics. Cattle like this always existed, but are we in an epoch where cattle is becoming more brazen and unashamed?

    There maybe is less restraint nowadays to celebrate stupidity.

  179. @Mr. Hack

    But there were also ‘Polyane’ in the area of today’s Ukraine.
     
    Not only were there Polyane within Ukraine (Central and Dniepr region), but they were the largest of the Slavic tribes that were part of the mix out of which the later Ruthenians and Ukrainians cam from. The great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky felt that Ukrainian history could indeed be interpreted as beginning with the inclusion of just this Slavic tribe within modern Ukrainian territory. Were they related to the Polyani of Poland? Nobody knows for sure, but I think that it's quite possible.

    A Polish nationalist once told me that this is proof that Ukrainians and Poles are one people but that the evil Scandinavians separated Ukrainians from Poles, forcing the Orthodox religion upon them which solidified the division.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Well, you wouldn't hear a Ukrainian nationalist claim just the opposite. But it could prove that the Polish influence in Ukraine began before the influx of Poles in the pre-modern period. Generically, the two nations are quite closely related. These two tribes may not have been exactly identical, but branches of a common ancestor?
  180. @German_reader
    a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.

    ‘a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.’

    It’s also my impression that the whole connection to the ancient Hellenes schtick is largely for foreign consumption/ego-stroking. In most respects, modern Greeks seem to look back to the late Byzantine Empire for their sense of identity. Their last — and disastrous — move in the Greco-Turkish war of 1920-21 was to try to seize Constantinople from the occupying Western powers.

    Constantinople wasn’t even an ancient Greek city of any note. It was, however, the center of the Byzantine Empire. The move was nonsensical if one sees modern Greeks as heirs to the Greeks of Homer. It made perfect sense if one sees them as Byzantines revived.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    It’s also my impression that the whole connection to the ancient Hellenes schtick is largely for foreign consumption/ego-stroking.
     
    I don't know, I recall having read once (iirc in the volume of the New Cambridge Medieval History about either the 13th or 14th century) that the traditional Byzantine self-conception changed somewhat in the 13th and 14th century to a more narrow Greek identity, almost a kind of proto-nationalism; e.g. even some bishops saw themselves in a direct succession to the pagan Greeks who had fought at Thermopylae and Marathon. Of course this was not least due to the fact that Byzantine dominions had radically contracted to the Greek core areas, and what remained of the "empire" then was much less multiethnic than had traditionally been the case.
    I confess ignorance to the significance of that phenomenon though, Greek nationalism isn't something I know anything about.
    , @silviosilver

    In most respects, modern Greeks seem to look back to the late Byzantine Empire for their sense of identity.
     
    Their Byzantine past obviously helped shape modern Greeks' sense of themselves, but it's ludicrous to maintain that modern Greek identity is not significantly influenced by an awareness that its roots are far more ancient than that.
  181. @silviosilver

    Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.
     
    Actually, the practice dates back to the late 19th century.

    What is it like to get a kick out of talking about things you clearly so know little about?

  182. @Epigon
    The Baltic Sea was not Scandi Sea from 9th to 12th century. Stockholm was burnt to the ground as late as 13th century by Osselians.
    Slavs and Balts were top dogs - the Danes suffered greatly at the hands of Wends, for example Roskilde and Konungahela.
    Mare Rugianorum, after all.
    Primary sources indicate that the Jomsvikings were majority Slavs and shed a lot of light on that period, authors like Adam of Bremen and Saxo Grammaticus.
    What amuses me most is that modern history still insists that Rani/Rujani from Rugia island are not the same as Rugii from older times. Or that Vandals, Venedi and Wends are not the same thing.
    But I guess that admitting even a little crack would soon bring down the whole nonsense of "East Germanic" tribes like Lugii vanishing at the same time Slavs exploding in those same areas during "migration period".

    Normanist theory and practically the entire Viking narrative is a joke when archeology is taken into account. During the period of Rus' founding, Sweden was hopelessly outclassed in (man)power by both Danes and Slavs+Balts. Also, the description of "Rus" "Swedes" is in stark contrast to descriptions of Danes and Norwegians during the same period.

    Genetics have laid these claims to rest. The Rurikids originated in Sweden:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rurikid/about/background

    http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mozhayski/genealogy/teksty/ydna.html

    “thanks to this, i.e. Rurikid project, we can now say that Rurik was a historical person who was born on the Roslagen seashore (slightly north of Stockholm, Sweden). However, he was of Finno-Ugrian descent (haplogroup N1c1 (earlier described as N3a)). Although all of well matching N1c1 Rurikid princes are descended from Yaroslav Mudry (978 – 1054), it seems that his ancestors including Rurik (b. ab. 820 – 876) himself, also belonged to this haplogroup. A group of Swedes, whose ancestors lived in or close to Uppsala, and whose genetic haplotypes are very close to these of the Rurikids, seems to be confirming the theory that Rurik, in fact, originated from Sweden.”

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Strawman articles:

    1. That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected - northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.

    2. In addition to obvious Finno-Ugric tribe presence, northern Russia has numerous "viking" burial sites of earlier date than Rurikid ascendance - but those "vikings" are not necessarily Norse/Germanics - it was a cultural/lifestyle thing. And the exchange between Scandinavia, Balts and Slavs was two-way - there are Swedish words of obvious Slavic descent. And as I have previously stated, the supposedly invincible Danes during the times of their North Sea Empire were unable to defend their own homeland against Slavic pirates of Baltic, the same way Balts raided Sweden later on.

    3. Genetics on that level is actually not important - culture, artifacts, language are more relevant.

  183. @Colin Wright
    'a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.'


    It's also my impression that the whole connection to the ancient Hellenes schtick is largely for foreign consumption/ego-stroking. In most respects, modern Greeks seem to look back to the late Byzantine Empire for their sense of identity. Their last -- and disastrous -- move in the Greco-Turkish war of 1920-21 was to try to seize Constantinople from the occupying Western powers.

    Constantinople wasn't even an ancient Greek city of any note. It was, however, the center of the Byzantine Empire. The move was nonsensical if one sees modern Greeks as heirs to the Greeks of Homer. It made perfect sense if one sees them as Byzantines revived.

    It’s also my impression that the whole connection to the ancient Hellenes schtick is largely for foreign consumption/ego-stroking.

    I don’t know, I recall having read once (iirc in the volume of the New Cambridge Medieval History about either the 13th or 14th century) that the traditional Byzantine self-conception changed somewhat in the 13th and 14th century to a more narrow Greek identity, almost a kind of proto-nationalism; e.g. even some bishops saw themselves in a direct succession to the pagan Greeks who had fought at Thermopylae and Marathon. Of course this was not least due to the fact that Byzantine dominions had radically contracted to the Greek core areas, and what remained of the “empire” then was much less multiethnic than had traditionally been the case.
    I confess ignorance to the significance of that phenomenon though, Greek nationalism isn’t something I know anything about.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    'Byzantine' Empire is a misnomer. It always was Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων, Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων, Ἀρχὴ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, Empire of the Romans, or simply Ῥωμανία. The Emperor was 'basileus ton Romaion' (emperor of the Romans). Until late, 'Hellenes' was for the Romei equivalent to 'pagans'.
    Only from Charlemagne usurpation of the 'Roman Emperor' title, the 'West' started calling derogatorily the 'East', the 'Greek Empire' and the legitimate Roman Emperor, the 'Emperor of the Greeks' and Orthodoxy the 'Greek Schism'.
    The term "Byzantine" does not occur until 1557, when the German historian Hieronymus Wolf published his work Corpus Historiæ Byzantinæ. Its widespread use afterwards was meant to stress that the 'western' empire was the real 'Roman' (the Holy Roman Empire - "of German nation").
  184. @Thulean Friend
    There is also a significant campaign to re-name cities with muslim names. For instance, Allahabad to Prayagraj/Prayag. This was recently done in UP (now controlled by Yogi Adityanath, a Hindu nationalist monk which is its chief minister).

    There are similar suggestions for many cities in North India and even some in the southern parts, such as Hyderabad, though the latter is likely not happening since the ruling party is a secular left-of-center one. Any city with -bad at the end, has muslim/foreign roots.

    We often underestimate just how thoroughly dominated India was for the last 1000 years by foreigners. Even the word Hindu itself is a foreign word from the muslim foreign rulers. 'Indian' meals such as biryani also have foreign muslim roots., including the word itself.

    I personally support this campaign, but if we were to go by AK's tongue-in-cheek smear of any country obsessed with re-naming then India would by any standard be seen as deeply insecure and "fake" since so much of its names and language has been imposed from the outside for almost a thousand years, to the extent you can barely ask what is even authentically 'Indian' anymore.

    But I don't really see it as such. The Czech language was almost wiped out 200 years ago, at least in the major cities in Czechia. Czech was relegated to being a pastoral language in the countryside with people seriously predicting its eradication within a realistic timehorizon. However, there was a conscious effort to revive it. Today, many who are not knowledgable about history would be shocked to hear that German was a majority language in Prague, Brno and other major cities not too long ago. This is a testament to the revival movements success, as well as the re-awakened national spirit of the Czech people. I don't see why this shouldn't be seen as a template for Hindus to rid themselves of this historical baggage in their own country.

    I certainly hope that India purges as much of the foreign influence as possible and re-asserts itself. I would also change India to Bharat even in English. Hindustan is sometimes used in Hindi (both of those words are also imported/have their roots from foreign muslim rulers). Today, Hindi is often peppered with a lot of English phrases. There ought to be a general movement in Bharat today to clean up the language and root it in the local population and its accordant customs and traditions. Language is power.

    The word Hindu comes from old Persian pronunciation if Sindhu(Indus) to refer to people on the other side of the Indus river the then border between the Achmaneid Persian empire and Indian states.

    It predates Islam by over a millennia. The formal name of Hinduism is Sanatan Dharma BTW.

    I am all for naming cities to Hindu names if cities existed prior to their conquest so Ahmadabad should become Karnavati ,Allahabad should become Prayag etc.

    Btw Hindu India had more or less destroyed Muslim power in the 18th century under the Brahmin founded Maratha Empire…which was by far the biggest military force on the sub continent at the dawn of British Rule.

    There is a campaign to Sanskritize Hindi by purging it of Persian,Turkic and Arab words..Official Hindi is basically that and marks are deducted in exams for using middle eastern words instead of their Sanskrit equivalents..Sanskrit is also widely taught in schools.

    We need to atleast semi industrialize and the world needs to enter the post oil age (both likely in 15-20 years) for us to fully show the followers of the Arabian mental illness their place..till then we have to put up atleast a facade of civility and speak about how the bastards ‘enriched’ Indian civilization…

    The extent of Muslim devastation of India is truly horrific..the gangetic belt the heartland of Hindu civilization and the most fertile land in all Eurasia was basically flattened with every major temple and university destroyed..

    They will pay for this!

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    The word Hindu comes from old Persian pronunciation if Sindhu(Indus) to refer to people on the other side of the Indus river the then border between the Achmaneid Persian empire and Indian states.
    It predates Islam by over a millennia.
     
    Right, but it is still foreign, Islamic influence or not. Hindustan is also a common word used in Hindi to describe India, which also comes from persians IIRC.

    The formal name of Hinduism is Sanatan Dharma BTW.
     

    I've heard about this before, though I would take issue calling it 'formal'. Indigenous is probably a better term.

    I am all for naming cities to Hindu names if cities existed prior to their conquest so Ahmadabad should become Karnavati ,Allahabad should become Prayag
     
    Even if someone doesn't care about the poetic justice of it all, one should still support it on the basis of aethestics. Karnavati sounds a lot better. I also prefer Gurugram to Gurgaeon. Kolkata definitely sounds better than Calcutta, which has a clownish tinge to it. The only oldschool names I'd prefer would probably be Bangalore over Bengaluru. Bombay does sound cooler than Mumbai. But overall, most new names are net improvements.

    There is a campaign to Sanskritize Hindi by purging it of Persian,Turkic and Arab words.
     
    That's good, but as a non-Hindi speaker who listen to Indian officials and even Indian media from time to time, what strikes you is the extent to which people pepper their lingo with English words inserted, this is especially the case in more formal settings where discussions can become technocratic.

    Sanskrit is also widely taught in schools.
     
    doubt.jpeg

    Maybe in elite schools. And Indian primary and secondary school system quality is quite poor, as we saw in PISA 2009. The key question is how many have a strong grasp of the language. I'd doubt even 1% of the 15-24 population does. You're more than welcome to provide sources for the "widely taught" remark. A lot of elite Indians tend to define themselves as 'middle-class' even if they are anything but. This seems like something similar.


    We need to atleast semi industrialize and the world needs to enter the post oil age (both likely in 15-20 years) for us to fully show the followers of the Arabian mental illness their place..till then we have to put up atleast a facade of civility and speak about how the bastards ‘enriched’ Indian civilization…
    The extent of Muslim devastation of India is truly horrific..the gangetic belt the heartland of Hindu civilization and the most fertile land in all Eurasia was basically flattened with every major temple and university destroyed..
    They will pay for this!
     
    It seems to me that India doesn't have to do that much, if the ongoing crisis in Pakistan is anything to go by. It might even be in India's interest to keep it from totally fall apart and face a nightmare nuclear proliferation scenario.

    It also appears to me that the main challenge to India is environmental, especially related to water. You also seem to have issues with employment generation. Plenty of protests by traditionally land-owning castes like the Jats in Haryana, Marathas, Patidars in Gujarat and others is worrisome. These were not traditionally backward castes and their demand for reservations show us that there is deep economic anxiety and pain in the Hindu heartland. Part of it is the non-viability of Indian agriculture, where these castes have seen their lands shrink by the decades as more and more infrastructure needed to be built, but insufficient jobs in the non-agricultural, especially manufacturing, sector was provided as an offset. Many jobs in the cities are petty and informal services.

    Next year it is election season. It is amusing to see Pappu and Modi Kaka trying to outdo themselves in farm loan waivers. Just today Gujarat went one step beyond and announced electricity bill waivers for the rural countryside.

    All of this, I think, is a distressing sign of the future. India has a very high-performing elite but it doesn't seem to be able to create the kind of mass prosperity that China was able to.

  185. @AP
    A Polish nationalist once told me that this is proof that Ukrainians and Poles are one people but that the evil Scandinavians separated Ukrainians from Poles, forcing the Orthodox religion upon them which solidified the division.

    Well, you wouldn’t hear a Ukrainian nationalist claim just the opposite. But it could prove that the Polish influence in Ukraine began before the influx of Poles in the pre-modern period. Generically, the two nations are quite closely related. These two tribes may not have been exactly identical, but branches of a common ancestor?

  186. @Beckow
    Is it generally assumed in Poland that that the term 'Polska' is a derivative of 'pole'=field?

    In other words, the field-people or farmers. I have assumed that is the case and then I run into a linguist who claims that it is an ancient religious term. But there were also 'Polyane' in the area of today's Ukraine.

    The term 'Cech' also has few derivations, one I like is the 'highlander' (the original Czech tribe home base were the highlands immediately west of Prague). But there are a few other etymologies, incl. derived from 'singers or travelling entertainers'. The official one is of course the patriarch 'Cech', but that begs the question what was his name based on. Bohemia only refers to the western 2/3 of Czechia (the east is Moravia and has always been called that).

    The word Bohemia has the same root as Bayern (Bavaria). Based on that the hapless Vaclav Havel once claimed to Western visitors that Czechs were actually 'Celts'...

    The origin of the word Czech is not clear. Certainly it does not come from the legend, which was 12th century artifact. One possibility is that the word Czechs meant “our people”, another that it designated “dry land” (the central Bohemia lacking marshes).

    Bohemia has Latin origin – land of Celtic tribe Boii – and the tribal name was later reused by Frankish scribes, in several butchered forms, and eventually caught in Bohemia itself, adding to the mess.

    Václav Havel is forgotten here.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    The name given by Latin writers was 'Boiohaemum' which might be the 'home (heim ) of the Boii'.
  187. One division I’ve noticed (I’m sure I’m not the first) is between states named after nations, and nations named after states. Germany / Austria, Serbia / Montenegro, Russia / Ukraine etc

  188. What fake country will be next on the chopping block? I would guess South Sudan, but I’m not sure it passes the test that Sudan did to be divided. The various Nilotic tribes have their distinctions, like Dinka scarificaton. But nothing like the skin color gradient or other factors required to set off SJW advocacy.

    Internal conflict may not be enough by itself. It think it requires the false strategic concerns of neocons or some diversity totem of SJWs.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    What fake country will be next on the chopping block? I would guess South Sudan, but I’m not sure it passes the test that Sudan did to be divided. The various Nilotic tribes have their distinctions, like Dinka scarificaton. But nothing like the skin color gradient or other factors required to set off SJW advocacy.
     
    I find it pretty amazing that Europeans have created new ethnic groups in Africa based on English- and French-language colonial education.


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cameroon-separatists-idUSKCN1IX4RS

  189. @AP
    LOL, this Sovok probably complained about Ukrainians taking down Lenin statues:

    http://24-my.info/i-wrote-some-strange-books-the-head-of-staff-of-the-baltic-fleet-of-the-russian-federation-called-for-sailors-to-speak-out-against-kant/

    If there is something to worry about, it is more about our epoch than little politics. Cattle like this always existed, but are we in an epoch where cattle is becoming more brazen and unashamed?

    There maybe is less restraint nowadays to celebrate stupidity.

  190. @songbird
    What fake country will be next on the chopping block? I would guess South Sudan, but I'm not sure it passes the test that Sudan did to be divided. The various Nilotic tribes have their distinctions, like Dinka scarificaton. But nothing like the skin color gradient or other factors required to set off SJW advocacy.

    Internal conflict may not be enough by itself. It think it requires the false strategic concerns of neocons or some diversity totem of SJWs.

    What fake country will be next on the chopping block? I would guess South Sudan, but I’m not sure it passes the test that Sudan did to be divided. The various Nilotic tribes have their distinctions, like Dinka scarificaton. But nothing like the skin color gradient or other factors required to set off SJW advocacy.

    I find it pretty amazing that Europeans have created new ethnic groups in Africa based on English- and French-language colonial education.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cameroon-separatists-idUSKCN1IX4RS

    • Replies: @songbird
    It has always been a wonder to me that Nigeria is a country. Meanwhile, I think it speaks volumes about the Commonwealth that Cameroon was allowed to join.

    There is something perhaps oddly unique about more modern colonialism. The Roman vulgate was corrupted and split into new tongues, which later influenced the formation of nations. But modern European colonialism ended in the age of modern communications and travel, so language may have been an artificial glue, even as the native languages persist. I wonder whether, for instance, India would really be a country without the English.
  191. @silviosilver

    “The Ukraine” is grammatically correct as the translation of Ukrania is March, a borderland where inhabitants have rights to bear arms. March is preceded by a definite article. The Welsh Marches, The Roussilon March, The Brandenburg Mark. There is an exception with the early Anglish Kingdom of Mercia, the name being an early form of March.
     
    I don't recall journalists having any problem calling the region in Croatia that was a Serbian stronghold during the Yugoslav wars "Krajina" instead of "the Krajina." So I don't see why it should be so hard to just say Ukraine.

    They want to be known as “Ukraine” without “the” fine. In turn, I’ll refer to Krajina, Crimea and Donbass without “the”.

    I’ll also spell “Kiev”, “Kharkov” and “Odessa” as such. I’ll make exceptions for “Lviv” and “Kyiv Post”.

  192. @LH
    The origin of the word Czech is not clear. Certainly it does not come from the legend, which was 12th century artifact. One possibility is that the word Czechs meant "our people", another that it designated "dry land" (the central Bohemia lacking marshes).

    Bohemia has Latin origin - land of Celtic tribe Boii - and the tribal name was later reused by Frankish scribes, in several butchered forms, and eventually caught in Bohemia itself, adding to the mess.

    Václav Havel is forgotten here.

    The name given by Latin writers was ‘Boiohaemum’ which might be the ‘home (heim ) of the Boii’.

    • Replies: @LH
    Boiohaemum was the first appearance of the name, in Historiae by Marcus Velleius Paterculus. Later variants for the location and its people were: Bohemi in Notitia Dignitatum, Bainaib/Baiohaim in Historia Langobardorum, Beowinidis in Historia Langobardorum codicis Gothani, Bohemannorum in 845 document about baptizing Czech chieftains, Bohemani and Beuwinitha in the Annals of Xanten, Beheimi in Annales regni Francorum, and several more.

    Early variant of the word Czech appeared in Annales Tilliani, 805, as "Cinu".

    My source: Petr Charvát, The Emergence of the Bohemian State.

  193. @German_reader

    It’s also my impression that the whole connection to the ancient Hellenes schtick is largely for foreign consumption/ego-stroking.
     
    I don't know, I recall having read once (iirc in the volume of the New Cambridge Medieval History about either the 13th or 14th century) that the traditional Byzantine self-conception changed somewhat in the 13th and 14th century to a more narrow Greek identity, almost a kind of proto-nationalism; e.g. even some bishops saw themselves in a direct succession to the pagan Greeks who had fought at Thermopylae and Marathon. Of course this was not least due to the fact that Byzantine dominions had radically contracted to the Greek core areas, and what remained of the "empire" then was much less multiethnic than had traditionally been the case.
    I confess ignorance to the significance of that phenomenon though, Greek nationalism isn't something I know anything about.

    ‘Byzantine’ Empire is a misnomer. It always was Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων, Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων, Ἀρχὴ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, Empire of the Romans, or simply Ῥωμανία. The Emperor was ‘basileus ton Romaion’ (emperor of the Romans). Until late, ‘Hellenes’ was for the Romei equivalent to ‘pagans’.
    Only from Charlemagne usurpation of the ‘Roman Emperor’ title, the ‘West’ started calling derogatorily the ‘East’, the ‘Greek Empire’ and the legitimate Roman Emperor, the ‘Emperor of the Greeks’ and Orthodoxy the ‘Greek Schism’.
    The term “Byzantine” does not occur until 1557, when the German historian Hieronymus Wolf published his work Corpus Historiæ Byzantinæ. Its widespread use afterwards was meant to stress that the ‘western’ empire was the real ‘Roman’ (the Holy Roman Empire – “of German nation”).

  194. @Hyperborean

    What fake country will be next on the chopping block? I would guess South Sudan, but I’m not sure it passes the test that Sudan did to be divided. The various Nilotic tribes have their distinctions, like Dinka scarificaton. But nothing like the skin color gradient or other factors required to set off SJW advocacy.
     
    I find it pretty amazing that Europeans have created new ethnic groups in Africa based on English- and French-language colonial education.


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cameroon-separatists-idUSKCN1IX4RS

    It has always been a wonder to me that Nigeria is a country. Meanwhile, I think it speaks volumes about the Commonwealth that Cameroon was allowed to join.

    There is something perhaps oddly unique about more modern colonialism. The Roman vulgate was corrupted and split into new tongues, which later influenced the formation of nations. But modern European colonialism ended in the age of modern communications and travel, so language may have been an artificial glue, even as the native languages persist. I wonder whether, for instance, India would really be a country without the English.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I find that the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe.

    India is a civilization rather than a nation, and like Europe it has briefly been mostly united a few sporadic times in its history.

    Mauryan Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Maurya_Empire%2C_c.250_BCE_2.png

    Moghul Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Mughal1700.png

    Maratha Confederacy

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/India1760_1905.jpg

    British Raj

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/British_Indian_Empire_1909_Imperial_Gazetteer_of_India.jpg

    Republic of India

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/India_topo_big.jpg

    Compare to Europe with the Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Hapsburg Empire (Charles V), Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.
  195. @Pericles

    Finns themselves aren’t as ethnically and linguistically close as the other Nordics are with each other.

     

    Except for the Swedish-speaking Finn population, not at all close. It is sort of possible as a Swedish-speaker to figure out Norwegian, Danish and even Icelandic (admittedly only with some luck) but Finnish is entirely different.

    This is where the Scandinavian vs Nordic distinction comes in. Germanic countries in the region are Scandinavian, where as the broader group of sideways cross flags is Nordic (former Kalmar Union). Finnish is not an IE language but culturally they share a great deal with Scandoknavians, except Finns have more self respect and are vastly more manly than homosexual Scandos, especially Swedish subhumans.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Finns have more self respect and are vastly more manly than homosexual Scandos, especially Swedish subhumans.
     
    While Finland and Sweden were both officially neutral, Finland was less exposed to Jewish-American cultural influences under the Soviet-accomodationist soft dictatorship than pro-American Sweden.
    , @Pericles
    Well, we have admittedly been quite subservient to Judeo-Globohomo in the last few decades but these days it's at least more of an 80/20 situation.
  196. Mexicans and Brazilians sometimes get bent out of shape when Yanks call themselves “American”, I don’t know if this is really the same phenomenon as with the Ukraine.

    I think the Greeks don’t push hard enough for “Hellas”, we really should dump the word “Greek”, they are Hellenes, give them that.

    Persia rebranding as Iran was a good move and reasonable IMO. As with all things it comes down to whom/whom/when. Georgians and southwest Russians are, as you say, gay currently, so screw ‘em!

  197. @Boswald Bollocksworth
    This is where the Scandinavian vs Nordic distinction comes in. Germanic countries in the region are Scandinavian, where as the broader group of sideways cross flags is Nordic (former Kalmar Union). Finnish is not an IE language but culturally they share a great deal with Scandoknavians, except Finns have more self respect and are vastly more manly than homosexual Scandos, especially Swedish subhumans.

    Finns have more self respect and are vastly more manly than homosexual Scandos, especially Swedish subhumans.

    While Finland and Sweden were both officially neutral, Finland was less exposed to Jewish-American cultural influences under the Soviet-accomodationist soft dictatorship than pro-American Sweden.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    There are 66% more Swedish people in Sweden than there are Jewish people in America.

    So I wonder, are the latter believed as some kind of ubermenschen who control and have responsibility for decisions of other nationalities, including nationalities like Swedish people who are thousands of kilometers away, that are highly developed themselves, that have their own education, intellectual and spiritual heritage, and a higher quality of life.

    Also this belief in active and passive is very interesting. So Jewish people are active (like 'masters'), deciding the fate of the world, even if they compose 0.18% of the world population.

    While Swedish people are the passive race (?) whose decisions are result of others without their own responsibility or free choice. Even though Swedish people have the highest quality of life in the world, created some of the world's largest companies, have dozens of billionaires, have their own culture, writers, intellectuals, thirty Nobel prizes, one of the most advanced military-industrial complexes, build fighter planes, and have been unconquered (excluding their territories) for centuries.

  198. @AP
    Genetics have laid these claims to rest. The Rurikids originated in Sweden:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rurikid/about/background

    http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mozhayski/genealogy/teksty/ydna.html

    "thanks to this, i.e. Rurikid project, we can now say that Rurik was a historical person who was born on the Roslagen seashore (slightly north of Stockholm, Sweden). However, he was of Finno-Ugrian descent (haplogroup N1c1 (earlier described as N3a)). Although all of well matching N1c1 Rurikid princes are descended from Yaroslav Mudry (978 – 1054), it seems that his ancestors including Rurik (b. ab. 820 – 876) himself, also belonged to this haplogroup. A group of Swedes, whose ancestors lived in or close to Uppsala, and whose genetic haplotypes are very close to these of the Rurikids, seems to be confirming the theory that Rurik, in fact, originated from Sweden."

    Strawman articles:

    1. That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected – northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.

    2. In addition to obvious Finno-Ugric tribe presence, northern Russia has numerous “viking” burial sites of earlier date than Rurikid ascendance – but those “vikings” are not necessarily Norse/Germanics – it was a cultural/lifestyle thing. And the exchange between Scandinavia, Balts and Slavs was two-way – there are Swedish words of obvious Slavic descent. And as I have previously stated, the supposedly invincible Danes during the times of their North Sea Empire were unable to defend their own homeland against Slavic pirates of Baltic, the same way Balts raided Sweden later on.

    3. Genetics on that level is actually not important – culture, artifacts, language are more relevant.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    That's very likely.
    A very suggestive site, worth a serious consideration:
    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uiralamenu.html

    UI-RA-LA: The Ancient World of Boat Peoples, by Andres Pääbo

    "These articles explore the current information from archeology, paleoclimatology, population genetics, languages, and so on, to explore one facet of history since the Ice Age, the development of the boat as a central part of a ways of life - much like the automobile and truck today - and how this innovation allowed humans to travel some 5 times further or farther than previously on foot, and use all water bodies and rivers as readymade highways.

    UIRALA: THE LANDS RELEASED FROM UNDER THE GLACIERS AND THE DEVELOPMENT AND EXPANSION OF BOAT PEOPLES FROM IT.
    PREFACE >> PREFACE
    OVERVIEW >> OVERVIEW
    CHAPTER ONE >> 1. ADAPTING TO THE FLOODED NORTH EUROPEAN REINDEER PEOPLE ADAPT TO POST-GLACIAL WARMING AND FLOODING 20,000-12,000_bp
    CHAPTER TWO >> 2. ORIGIN AND EXPANSION EXPANSION OF THE NEW BOAT- ORIENTED HUNTERS INTO FLOODED LANDS 12,000-6,000BP
    CHAPTER THREE >> 3. EXPANSIONS TO SEA THE DEVELOPMENT OF SEAGOING SKIN BOATS AND EXPANSION TO THE ARCTIC 6,000-4,000BP
    CHAPTER FOUR >>4. OCEANIC VOYAGES THE VOYAGES THROUGH OCEANS
    THE LANGUAGES PERSPECTIVE
    The investigation into the story of the birth and expansion of northern boat-oriented hunter-gatherers is/was an original multi-disciplinary investigation, based mainy in archeological and associated discoveries over the past century. Languages are naturally one of the areas that can contribute some data to this multidiciplinary approach. We provide discussions about languages in separate articles below
    2A. LANGUAGE IN UIRALA THE "URALIC LANGUAGE FAMILY" INTERPRETED IN A WISER FASHION THAN A CENTURY AGO.)
    4A. LANGUAGES ACROSS OCEANS LANGUAGES OF THE EXPANSIONS OF THE "KUNDA" CULTURE INTO THE OCEANS

    THE VENETI: A CONSEQUENCE OF THE BOAT PEOPLES SUCCESS WITHIN EARLY CIVILIZATION
    While much of the boat peoples remained in the world of aboriginal hunter gatherers, about 5,000 years ago, the boat peoples discovered their boats could serve a major role in civilizations to the south, in transporting goods between the stationary agriculturally-based settled peoples. Professional large scale traders developed, and from it there developed a Veneti trade system north of the Mediterranean, as widely distributed and busy as the Phoenicians and Greeks in the Mediterrean. Due to this view that these Veneti originated from the northern boat peoples, and spoke a Finnic language, we had to spend some years deciphering the writings left in northern Italy by these people to show they were in a Finnic language
    Work on the Veneti has been a separate pursuit, and is found in another part of this website. Return to the main menu for links".

    , @AP

    That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected – northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.
     
    But as noted, this particular Finno-Ugric branch were from Sweden, not Finland or Northern Russia.
  199. @Dmitry

    incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read,” Admiral Mukhametshin
     
    So some stupid Tatar is complaining he cannot understand the books of one of history's most intelligent men.

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway. For example, reading this website for a year, and we've seen no evidence that anyone here e is close to being intelligent enough to discuss Kant.

    Kant's never going to develop some mass popularity for winning many naming competitions outside his nationality, when only a smallish fraction (even among his own nationality) would ever be clever enough to understand him.

    For a self-proclaimed very intelligent person, you place a huge emphasis on arbitrary, unscientific ramblings and musings from distant past.

    Now tell me, why would a highly intelligent person invest time into discussing non-factual, unscientific ranting of another individual where no conclusive evidence, arguments can exist?
    Something tells me you don’t have the capacity to discuss Gauss and Maxwell – LOL at Kant being “one of history’s most intelligent men”.

    • Replies: @DFH
    I think your comments proved Dmitry's point pretty well
    , @Dmitry
    Well I have to study/work in a primarily mathematical area.

    But remembering back to my university days.

    From 5 years in the university, the higher part of my brain (not just studying to pass the exam) was more stimulated in a course in physics and a course in philosophy.

    The theoretical and interesting parts of my discipline itself actually rapidly take you to very strange philosophical questions and debates.

  200. @silviosilver

    Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.
     
    Actually, the practice dates back to the late 19th century.

    What is it like to get a kick out of talking about things you clearly so know little about?

    Calling historical Slavs of Strymon valley, Macedonia, Thessaly and Epirus – Bulgarians, while telling others they know little about history.

    Priceless.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Well, that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over (outside Macedonia) take, so, whether I'm right or wrong, my opinion is indeed historically informed. (In any case, they're vastly closer to Bulgarians than to Serbs, that's just obvious.)

    Besides, I didn't say he knew nothing about history; just nothing about the specific subject he was pontificating on.

  201. @Epigon
    For a self-proclaimed very intelligent person, you place a huge emphasis on arbitrary, unscientific ramblings and musings from distant past.

    Now tell me, why would a highly intelligent person invest time into discussing non-factual, unscientific ranting of another individual where no conclusive evidence, arguments can exist?
    Something tells me you don't have the capacity to discuss Gauss and Maxwell - LOL at Kant being "one of history's most intelligent men".

    I think your comments proved Dmitry’s point pretty well

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Sure you do.

    Off to the philosophy discussing forums with you.

  202. @DFH
    I think your comments proved Dmitry's point pretty well

    Sure you do.

    Off to the philosophy discussing forums with you.

  203. @Colin Wright
    Well, to begin with, I'll note that nations are something that exist in people's heads. No people, no nations. Conversely, if a lot of people think the Ukraine is a real nation, it becomes a real nation. Here I'm reminded of the Israel-Palestine dispute. Some Zionists will argue that there never was a Palestinian people. That may or may not be true; but it's not terribly relevant. There is a Palestinian people now; the Zionists created them with their actions.

    That said, it's odd that this piece led off with Georgia as an example of a 'fake and gay' nation. Georgia was an independent kingdom -- and one with a long history -- as recently as the eighteenth century. It's very much a real nation.

    Poland indubitably is as well. Certainly Russia is. Armenia would be. Lithuania, having a long and very distinct existence in the Middle Ages and there very definitely being Lithuanians to boot, seems to me to qualify. Latvia, Estonia, the Ukraine, Finland, and the Czechs all seem like reasonable candidates for nationhood to me. There was little independent political existence before the twentieth century, but each region has a unique history and a people who at least feel themselves to be unique.

    'Belarus,' on the other hand, is pretty 'gay.' That never was a state, and I'm not aware of any abortive nationalist gropings along the lines of those that the Ukraine, say, displayed in both World Wars. Are there 'Belarussians'? Would they riot and take to the woods and form armed bands if Russia just annexed the state outright?

    Now, for fun, we can consider the legitimacy of states that most definitely very much were but thanks to the miracle of modern population replacement now very much aren't: Prussia, the Crimean Khanate. Neither was even a little 'gay' but both are most certainly gone.

    Conversely, we have exciting modern frissons that rest on either fantasy or nothing at all. Modern Greece incorporates a great deal of continental hinterland that was all kinds of things but certainly not anyone related to the ancient Greeks; the 'Greeks' were actually more of a maritime people, spread around seacoasts all around the Aegean and even further afield but rarely extending themselves very far inland. Indeed, in World War Two Greek guerillas often found themselves in the embarassing position of losing out to Tito's Partisans in northern Greece because the peasantry spoke Slavic dialects rather than Greek. No doubt that's been rectified, but the fact remains; modern Greece is largely an invention; most Greeks think of themselves as Greeks because they've been told they're Greeks. The ancient Greeks are long gone, others have indeed moved or been moved into their place, and the lands they lived in don't even match up with modern Greece particularly well in the first place. An early martyr appropriated to the cause of Greek independence apparently wasn't even aware of that identity; as the Ottomans led him to be executed he cried out 'a Romios I was born and a Romios I will die.'.

    Ahem. No, no. Greek. You're Greek. That clear?

    Then there's 'Rumania.' There were various historical states and regions that were incorporated at one time or another into the modern Rumanian state: Wallachia, Bessarabia, Moldovia, Transsylvania, Dobrudja are all names I'm familiar with. But as far as I know, there was no 'Rumania' or even a 'Romania' until the retreat of the Ottoman Empire in the middle of the nineteenth century. Rumanians themselves are a reality, but their state is of decidedly recent -- and hence 'gay' -- provenance. It's difficult to see why Romania should be regarded as authentic if the Ukraine isn't. Perhaps because Russia never absorbed it outright?

    So we've got all sorts of degrees and conditions of national reality. However, the states that have been singled out in this article as artificial don't seem to me to be particularly egregious offenders in this respect. Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don't strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

    Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don’t strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

    The problem with the Ukraine is that it’s an artificial entity created by Soviet diktat.

    Like all Soviet centrally-planned things, it is an abominably ugly abortion, prone to crime, corruption and soul-sucking gray ugliness.

  204. A simple division for countries:

    1. Countries named after ethnos that inhabits it/founded the state (France, England, Russia, Denmark, Poland)

    2. Areas/regions that lent the name to population inhabiting it (Belgium, Ukraine, Belarus, Macedonia*, Austria, all of Latin America, Africa)

  205. @Dmitry

    incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read,” Admiral Mukhametshin
     
    So some stupid Tatar is complaining he cannot understand the books of one of history's most intelligent men.

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway. For example, reading this website for a year, and we've seen no evidence that anyone here e is close to being intelligent enough to discuss Kant.

    Kant's never going to develop some mass popularity for winning many naming competitions outside his nationality, when only a smallish fraction (even among his own nationality) would ever be clever enough to understand him.

    I wasted almost an entire year of my life studying Kant, and looking back, I have to admit intellectual machismo was no small part in my motivation. I wouldn’t quite say “there is no there there”, but only two basic points are worth discussing– the categorical imperative and the idea that the mind imposes its own mathematical structure on perception, rather than the other way around. Neither idea is original, but one might be able to profitably use selected readings from Kant as grist for the mill of contemplating them.

    That said, it’s rather amusing that Russian admirals have opinions about Kant. I wonder if they sometimes deign to comment on Kaluza and his 5d unification of electromagnetism and general relativity.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    I wasted almost an entire year of my life studying Kant... I wouldn’t quite say “there is no there there”, but only two basic points
     
    Without intending to cause any offense, it can be inferred the problem here (as generally when any people say these kind of things) is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.

    I'm not going to boast I am the amazing genius above others. But I have about 4 hours of my life studying Kant, and it was enough to blow up the brain.


    That said, it’s rather amusing that Russian admirals have opinions about Kant.
     
    I would like to assume this "admiral gopnik" would be unusual anywhere. But I have suspicion that very similar kinds of biological trash also are displaying themselves openly in America, China, etc, so that this may be becoming a global problem.
    , @Mightypeon
    I know a couple of Polkovniks and Pod-Polkovniks, and that Tatars (there is a bit of a joke that Kaliningrad will get blasted first in case of world war 3, and basically has the job to be a maximum annoying obstacle that sucks in and degrade Natos army to shit. Russias armed forces are smart and send shitty, annoying and stubborn people to command this part) bullshit caused much face palming.

    Nekulturnij.
  206. @Boswald Bollocksworth
    This is where the Scandinavian vs Nordic distinction comes in. Germanic countries in the region are Scandinavian, where as the broader group of sideways cross flags is Nordic (former Kalmar Union). Finnish is not an IE language but culturally they share a great deal with Scandoknavians, except Finns have more self respect and are vastly more manly than homosexual Scandos, especially Swedish subhumans.

    Well, we have admittedly been quite subservient to Judeo-Globohomo in the last few decades but these days it’s at least more of an 80/20 situation.

  207. @Seraphim
    The name given by Latin writers was 'Boiohaemum' which might be the 'home (heim ) of the Boii'.

    Boiohaemum was the first appearance of the name, in Historiae by Marcus Velleius Paterculus. Later variants for the location and its people were: Bohemi in Notitia Dignitatum, Bainaib/Baiohaim in Historia Langobardorum, Beowinidis in Historia Langobardorum codicis Gothani, Bohemannorum in 845 document about baptizing Czech chieftains, Bohemani and Beuwinitha in the Annals of Xanten, Beheimi in Annales regni Francorum, and several more.

    Early variant of the word Czech appeared in Annales Tilliani, 805, as “Cinu”.

    My source: Petr Charvát, The Emergence of the Bohemian State.

  208. @AP
    1. No. But Russians also perished. Ukrainian nationalists once claimed 7 million Ukrainians died (1 million ore than the number of Jews alleged to have died in the Holocaust). But modern consensus is a total of about 6 million deaths in the USSR, half of whom were in the Ukrainian SSR. So Ukraine was about 1/3 of the USSR population but half of the people who were starved to death. Within Ukraine the countryside was starved while the cities were fed. This meant ethnic Ukrainians were disproportionately affected (cities had large Russian and Jewish populations).

    2. They've been there since the late 18th century in small numbers, but increased from the late 19th to 20th centuries with industrialization (Ukrainian farmers would rather get fresh lands in Siberia than move into some factory town). However Stalin's work increased % of Russian population relative to Ukrainian for reasons described previously.

    3. Yes, he did. There are many less world-famous Ukrainians who would disagree.

    There are many less world-famous Ukrainians who would disagree.

    Name some less world-famous Ukrainian figures of stature who would disagree.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    Ivan Franko, Taras Shevchenko, Lesya Ukrainka,...
  209. @Epigon
    Strawman articles:

    1. That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected - northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.

    2. In addition to obvious Finno-Ugric tribe presence, northern Russia has numerous "viking" burial sites of earlier date than Rurikid ascendance - but those "vikings" are not necessarily Norse/Germanics - it was a cultural/lifestyle thing. And the exchange between Scandinavia, Balts and Slavs was two-way - there are Swedish words of obvious Slavic descent. And as I have previously stated, the supposedly invincible Danes during the times of their North Sea Empire were unable to defend their own homeland against Slavic pirates of Baltic, the same way Balts raided Sweden later on.

    3. Genetics on that level is actually not important - culture, artifacts, language are more relevant.

    That’s very likely.
    A very suggestive site, worth a serious consideration:
    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uiralamenu.html

    UI-RA-LA: The Ancient World of Boat Peoples, by Andres Pääbo

    “These articles explore the current information from archeology, paleoclimatology, population genetics, languages, and so on, to explore one facet of history since the Ice Age, the development of the boat as a central part of a ways of life – much like the automobile and truck today – and how this innovation allowed humans to travel some 5 times further or farther than previously on foot, and use all water bodies and rivers as readymade highways.

    UIRALA: THE LANDS RELEASED FROM UNDER THE GLACIERS AND THE DEVELOPMENT AND EXPANSION OF BOAT PEOPLES FROM IT.
    PREFACE >> PREFACE
    OVERVIEW >> OVERVIEW
    CHAPTER ONE >> 1. ADAPTING TO THE FLOODED NORTH EUROPEAN REINDEER PEOPLE ADAPT TO POST-GLACIAL WARMING AND FLOODING 20,000-12,000_bp
    CHAPTER TWO >> 2. ORIGIN AND EXPANSION EXPANSION OF THE NEW BOAT- ORIENTED HUNTERS INTO FLOODED LANDS 12,000-6,000BP
    CHAPTER THREE >> 3. EXPANSIONS TO SEA THE DEVELOPMENT OF SEAGOING SKIN BOATS AND EXPANSION TO THE ARCTIC 6,000-4,000BP
    CHAPTER FOUR >>4. OCEANIC VOYAGES THE VOYAGES THROUGH OCEANS
    THE LANGUAGES PERSPECTIVE
    The investigation into the story of the birth and expansion of northern boat-oriented hunter-gatherers is/was an original multi-disciplinary investigation, based mainy in archeological and associated discoveries over the past century. Languages are naturally one of the areas that can contribute some data to this multidiciplinary approach. We provide discussions about languages in separate articles below
    2A. LANGUAGE IN UIRALA THE “URALIC LANGUAGE FAMILY” INTERPRETED IN A WISER FASHION THAN A CENTURY AGO.)
    4A. LANGUAGES ACROSS OCEANS LANGUAGES OF THE EXPANSIONS OF THE “KUNDA” CULTURE INTO THE OCEANS

    THE VENETI: A CONSEQUENCE OF THE BOAT PEOPLES SUCCESS WITHIN EARLY CIVILIZATION
    While much of the boat peoples remained in the world of aboriginal hunter gatherers, about 5,000 years ago, the boat peoples discovered their boats could serve a major role in civilizations to the south, in transporting goods between the stationary agriculturally-based settled peoples. Professional large scale traders developed, and from it there developed a Veneti trade system north of the Mediterranean, as widely distributed and busy as the Phoenicians and Greeks in the Mediterrean. Due to this view that these Veneti originated from the northern boat peoples, and spoke a Finnic language, we had to spend some years deciphering the writings left in northern Italy by these people to show they were in a Finnic language
    Work on the Veneti has been a separate pursuit, and is found in another part of this website. Return to the main menu for links”.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala

    A very suggestive site, worth a serious consideration:

    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uiralamenu.html
     
    Ehh. Just pointing out, in case, that this Andres Pääbo guy and his fansites are not to be confused with Svante Pääbo, prominent geneticist whose name will pop up a lot if you cite sources on northern European DNA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_P%C3%A4%C3%A4bo

    The "Uirala" stuff by Andres Pääbo is the typical "ancient Estonians ruled the world but this knowledge has been suppressed by occupiers" stuff that you find any any aggrieved nationality.
  210. @The Big Red Scary
    I wasted almost an entire year of my life studying Kant, and looking back, I have to admit intellectual machismo was no small part in my motivation. I wouldn't quite say "there is no there there", but only two basic points are worth discussing-- the categorical imperative and the idea that the mind imposes its own mathematical structure on perception, rather than the other way around. Neither idea is original, but one might be able to profitably use selected readings from Kant as grist for the mill of contemplating them.

    That said, it's rather amusing that Russian admirals have opinions about Kant. I wonder if they sometimes deign to comment on Kaluza and his 5d unification of electromagnetism and general relativity.

    I wasted almost an entire year of my life studying Kant… I wouldn’t quite say “there is no there there”, but only two basic points

    Without intending to cause any offense, it can be inferred the problem here (as generally when any people say these kind of things) is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.

    I’m not going to boast I am the amazing genius above others. But I have about 4 hours of my life studying Kant, and it was enough to blow up the brain.

    That said, it’s rather amusing that Russian admirals have opinions about Kant.

    I would like to assume this “admiral gopnik” would be unusual anywhere. But I have suspicion that very similar kinds of biological trash also are displaying themselves openly in America, China, etc, so that this may be becoming a global problem.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    But I have about 4 hours of my life studying Kant, and it was enough to blow up the brain.
     
    There are much better intellectual games if you want to brag about your pointless and wasteful misallocation of brain resources. I suggest vidya or wargames instead.

    le biological trash spiel
     
    Please leave your Jewish racist blabber at the cheder, thanks.
    , @The Big Red Scary

    the problem here is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.
     
    I was a university philosophy student at the time, writing papers on Kant and the philosophy of mathematics. However, we seem to agree that you made the wiser choice in the amount of time you spent on the subject.
  211. @Epigon
    For a self-proclaimed very intelligent person, you place a huge emphasis on arbitrary, unscientific ramblings and musings from distant past.

    Now tell me, why would a highly intelligent person invest time into discussing non-factual, unscientific ranting of another individual where no conclusive evidence, arguments can exist?
    Something tells me you don't have the capacity to discuss Gauss and Maxwell - LOL at Kant being "one of history's most intelligent men".

    Well I have to study/work in a primarily mathematical area.

    But remembering back to my university days.

    From 5 years in the university, the higher part of my brain (not just studying to pass the exam) was more stimulated in a course in physics and a course in philosophy.

    The theoretical and interesting parts of my discipline itself actually rapidly take you to very strange philosophical questions and debates.

  212. @Epigon
    Calling historical Slavs of Strymon valley, Macedonia, Thessaly and Epirus - Bulgarians, while telling others they know little about history.

    Priceless.

    Well, that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over (outside Macedonia) take, so, whether I’m right or wrong, my opinion is indeed historically informed. (In any case, they’re vastly closer to Bulgarians than to Serbs, that’s just obvious.)

    Besides, I didn’t say he knew nothing about history; just nothing about the specific subject he was pontificating on.

    • Replies: @Epigon

    that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over
     
    No, they don't.

    Slavs were in Macedonia (Aegean as well as Strymon Macedonia) before Bulgarians were a thing, even before Bolghars invaded. In addition, those Slavs fought AGAINST Bulgarians when they expanded.
    Even more importantly, there was obviously a linguistic difference between the Slavic tribes that mixed with Bolghars to form the Bulgarians, and the Slavs that lived around Thessaloniki and whose dialect was used by Cyril and Methodius to create the Old Church Slavonic, Glagolitic script and which formed the basis of Old Slavonic languages - for starters, the number of cases is different, not to mention the -jat- difference - Bulgaria itself is actually divided into two historical dialect areas.

    The eastern part of FYROM/North Macedonia are actual Bulgarians - Strumica, for example Zoran Zaev.
    The rest of them are a diverse mix, including descendants of those who fled Greece during and after the Greek Civil War in the aftermath of WW2, and Serbs in the northern part concentrated around Kumanovo and Skoplje, assimilated by Yugocommunists (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski - even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were "treated" this way).

  213. @Seraphim
    That's very likely.
    A very suggestive site, worth a serious consideration:
    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uiralamenu.html

    UI-RA-LA: The Ancient World of Boat Peoples, by Andres Pääbo

    "These articles explore the current information from archeology, paleoclimatology, population genetics, languages, and so on, to explore one facet of history since the Ice Age, the development of the boat as a central part of a ways of life - much like the automobile and truck today - and how this innovation allowed humans to travel some 5 times further or farther than previously on foot, and use all water bodies and rivers as readymade highways.

    UIRALA: THE LANDS RELEASED FROM UNDER THE GLACIERS AND THE DEVELOPMENT AND EXPANSION OF BOAT PEOPLES FROM IT.
    PREFACE >> PREFACE
    OVERVIEW >> OVERVIEW
    CHAPTER ONE >> 1. ADAPTING TO THE FLOODED NORTH EUROPEAN REINDEER PEOPLE ADAPT TO POST-GLACIAL WARMING AND FLOODING 20,000-12,000_bp
    CHAPTER TWO >> 2. ORIGIN AND EXPANSION EXPANSION OF THE NEW BOAT- ORIENTED HUNTERS INTO FLOODED LANDS 12,000-6,000BP
    CHAPTER THREE >> 3. EXPANSIONS TO SEA THE DEVELOPMENT OF SEAGOING SKIN BOATS AND EXPANSION TO THE ARCTIC 6,000-4,000BP
    CHAPTER FOUR >>4. OCEANIC VOYAGES THE VOYAGES THROUGH OCEANS
    THE LANGUAGES PERSPECTIVE
    The investigation into the story of the birth and expansion of northern boat-oriented hunter-gatherers is/was an original multi-disciplinary investigation, based mainy in archeological and associated discoveries over the past century. Languages are naturally one of the areas that can contribute some data to this multidiciplinary approach. We provide discussions about languages in separate articles below
    2A. LANGUAGE IN UIRALA THE "URALIC LANGUAGE FAMILY" INTERPRETED IN A WISER FASHION THAN A CENTURY AGO.)
    4A. LANGUAGES ACROSS OCEANS LANGUAGES OF THE EXPANSIONS OF THE "KUNDA" CULTURE INTO THE OCEANS

    THE VENETI: A CONSEQUENCE OF THE BOAT PEOPLES SUCCESS WITHIN EARLY CIVILIZATION
    While much of the boat peoples remained in the world of aboriginal hunter gatherers, about 5,000 years ago, the boat peoples discovered their boats could serve a major role in civilizations to the south, in transporting goods between the stationary agriculturally-based settled peoples. Professional large scale traders developed, and from it there developed a Veneti trade system north of the Mediterranean, as widely distributed and busy as the Phoenicians and Greeks in the Mediterrean. Due to this view that these Veneti originated from the northern boat peoples, and spoke a Finnic language, we had to spend some years deciphering the writings left in northern Italy by these people to show they were in a Finnic language
    Work on the Veneti has been a separate pursuit, and is found in another part of this website. Return to the main menu for links".

    A very suggestive site, worth a serious consideration:

    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uiralamenu.html

    Ehh. Just pointing out, in case, that this Andres Pääbo guy and his fansites are not to be confused with Svante Pääbo, prominent geneticist whose name will pop up a lot if you cite sources on northern European DNA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_P%C3%A4%C3%A4bo

    The “Uirala” stuff by Andres Pääbo is the typical “ancient Estonians ruled the world but this knowledge has been suppressed by occupiers” stuff that you find any any aggrieved nationality.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    You sound like a 'self-hating' Estonian?, Finn?
    , @reiner Tor

    “ancient Estonians ruled the world but this knowledge has been suppressed by occupiers”
     
    Do such idiocies exist in Estonia? I thought it was unique to Hungary.
  214. @Colin Wright
    'a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.'


    It's also my impression that the whole connection to the ancient Hellenes schtick is largely for foreign consumption/ego-stroking. In most respects, modern Greeks seem to look back to the late Byzantine Empire for their sense of identity. Their last -- and disastrous -- move in the Greco-Turkish war of 1920-21 was to try to seize Constantinople from the occupying Western powers.

    Constantinople wasn't even an ancient Greek city of any note. It was, however, the center of the Byzantine Empire. The move was nonsensical if one sees modern Greeks as heirs to the Greeks of Homer. It made perfect sense if one sees them as Byzantines revived.

    In most respects, modern Greeks seem to look back to the late Byzantine Empire for their sense of identity.

    Their Byzantine past obviously helped shape modern Greeks’ sense of themselves, but it’s ludicrous to maintain that modern Greek identity is not significantly influenced by an awareness that its roots are far more ancient than that.

  215. @Hyperborean

    Finns have more self respect and are vastly more manly than homosexual Scandos, especially Swedish subhumans.
     
    While Finland and Sweden were both officially neutral, Finland was less exposed to Jewish-American cultural influences under the Soviet-accomodationist soft dictatorship than pro-American Sweden.

    There are 66% more Swedish people in Sweden than there are Jewish people in America.

    So I wonder, are the latter believed as some kind of ubermenschen who control and have responsibility for decisions of other nationalities, including nationalities like Swedish people who are thousands of kilometers away, that are highly developed themselves, that have their own education, intellectual and spiritual heritage, and a higher quality of life.

    Also this belief in active and passive is very interesting. So Jewish people are active (like ‘masters’), deciding the fate of the world, even if they compose 0.18% of the world population.

    While Swedish people are the passive race (?) whose decisions are result of others without their own responsibility or free choice. Even though Swedish people have the highest quality of life in the world, created some of the world’s largest companies, have dozens of billionaires, have their own culture, writers, intellectuals, thirty Nobel prizes, one of the most advanced military-industrial complexes, build fighter planes, and have been unconquered (excluding their territories) for centuries.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    As Karlin has noted, it is very easy to draw a line regarding nationalism between the respective European spheres of influence of the USA and USSR.

    Just as Eastern Europe was remade along Soviet lines, utilising local collaborators, so a similar counterpart process was going on in Western Europe.

    Stalin is supposed to have said something along the lines of 'whoever controls a territory imposes his own social system' - this attitude sums up American cultural policy for its vassals well.

    And as the philosemitic Mr. Hack has admitted, Jews are responsible for creating much of modern American culture.

    The Pareto principle - law of the vital few - works well here, and Jews have proven, through their entrance to higher occupations and positions and their activism, that they are a determined minority.

    And ultimately, yes, a few million people in America have more influence than billions of Africans or Indians.

  216. @Dmitry

    I wasted almost an entire year of my life studying Kant... I wouldn’t quite say “there is no there there”, but only two basic points
     
    Without intending to cause any offense, it can be inferred the problem here (as generally when any people say these kind of things) is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.

    I'm not going to boast I am the amazing genius above others. But I have about 4 hours of my life studying Kant, and it was enough to blow up the brain.


    That said, it’s rather amusing that Russian admirals have opinions about Kant.
     
    I would like to assume this "admiral gopnik" would be unusual anywhere. But I have suspicion that very similar kinds of biological trash also are displaying themselves openly in America, China, etc, so that this may be becoming a global problem.

    But I have about 4 hours of my life studying Kant, and it was enough to blow up the brain.

    There are much better intellectual games if you want to brag about your pointless and wasteful misallocation of brain resources. I suggest vidya or wargames instead.

    le biological trash spiel

    Please leave your Jewish racist blabber at the cheder, thanks.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Anonymous Coward you are one of the better example here that Americans can be more uneducated and mentally feeble than anything we could produce.

    The worry of the admiral is not that (like you) he is proud cattle who boasts that he can't understand Kant. Worry is that (unlike you) he has an important job.

    As for descriptions of cattle, you can try to blame this on Jewish philology (this was one of Karlin's most strange ideas that he misled foreign readers with, although perhaps it's a compliment to him as it shows he wastes no time on the Russian internet where it is of course overused to the extent of being wearing).

  217. @silviosilver
    Well, that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over (outside Macedonia) take, so, whether I'm right or wrong, my opinion is indeed historically informed. (In any case, they're vastly closer to Bulgarians than to Serbs, that's just obvious.)

    Besides, I didn't say he knew nothing about history; just nothing about the specific subject he was pontificating on.

    that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over

    No, they don’t.

    Slavs were in Macedonia (Aegean as well as Strymon Macedonia) before Bulgarians were a thing, even before Bolghars invaded. In addition, those Slavs fought AGAINST Bulgarians when they expanded.
    Even more importantly, there was obviously a linguistic difference between the Slavic tribes that mixed with Bolghars to form the Bulgarians, and the Slavs that lived around Thessaloniki and whose dialect was used by Cyril and Methodius to create the Old Church Slavonic, Glagolitic script and which formed the basis of Old Slavonic languages – for starters, the number of cases is different, not to mention the -jat- difference – Bulgaria itself is actually divided into two historical dialect areas.

    The eastern part of FYROM/North Macedonia are actual Bulgarians – Strumica, for example Zoran Zaev.
    The rest of them are a diverse mix, including descendants of those who fled Greece during and after the Greek Civil War in the aftermath of WW2, and Serbs in the northern part concentrated around Kumanovo and Skoplje, assimilated by Yugocommunists (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski – even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were “treated” this way).

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
    You are an unreal fucking retard.
    , @silviosilver
    So what? Ethnicities aren't firmly fixed phenomena. If slavic speakers from Macedonia became Bulgarian at a later date than slavic speakers in Thrace and Bulgaria, it doesn't make them any less Bulgarian. Every historian regards the overwhelming majority of slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia prior to the war as Bulgarians, exactly as they regarded themselves.

    (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski – even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were “treated” this way).
     
    If that even happened (the "yugocommunists" did this??), it was a total handsomely exceeded by those who had -ić endings rudely affixed to their surnames prior to WWII.
    , @utu
    "Slavs were in Macedonia (Aegean as well as Strymon Macedonia) before Bulgarians were a thing, even before Bolghars invaded. " - did the big Bulgarian dogs play a role in their successful invasion?
  218. Speaking of gay countries, I’m sure you’ll all be pleased to learn the following:

    Boys can have periods too, children to be taught in latest victory for transgender campaigners

    chool children will be taught that “all genders” can have periods in new sex education lessons, in a victory for transgender rights campaigners.

    The advice to teachers was approved by Brighton & Hove City Council as they try to tackle stigma around menstruation.

    The new advice follows a council report which said: “Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods”, adding that “menstruation must be inclusive of all genders”.

    Bins used for menstruation products will be provided in all toilets for children, according to the report . . .

    The report recommends that “language and learning about periods is inclusive of all genders, cultures, faiths and sexual orientations. For example; ‘girls and women and others who have periods’”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/16/boys-can-have-periods-schoolchildren-taught-latest-victory-transgender/

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    This started in Australia where they vaccinate boys against HPV.
  219. @AnonFromTN
    You seem to be a decade or two behind the times. After the disaster of 1990-s (which was called “democracy” in Western MSM) most Russians feel that if someone is loved by the West, that someone is highly suspicious. Unlike some nations we know, the majority in Russia have learned their lesson and won’t be fooled again.

    “the majority in Russia have learned their lesson and won’t be fooled again”. – I hope this is true. If so, still the resolve was made on the rational level only but it was not integrated on the psychological level, so we see plenty of butt-hurt reactions.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Psychologically, I don’t understand butt-hurt reactions of some Russians. However, they might be less prevalent than perceived from the outside. Thing is, in Russian culture traitors are considered maybe just a notch above child molesters. Traitors, along with informers, sneaks and snitches of all stripes, are universally despised. So, many Russians are hurt that their view of Ukrainians as normal people was so wrong. Personally, I think they are wrong. Current policies are driven not by Ukrainians, but by Ukies, constituting no more than 10% of the population of Ukraine. They suppress dissent of normal people because they are ruthless and vocal, like Zionists in the US. But they are still the tail, not the dog.
  220. @anonymous coward

    But I have about 4 hours of my life studying Kant, and it was enough to blow up the brain.
     
    There are much better intellectual games if you want to brag about your pointless and wasteful misallocation of brain resources. I suggest vidya or wargames instead.

    le biological trash spiel
     
    Please leave your Jewish racist blabber at the cheder, thanks.

    Anonymous Coward you are one of the better example here that Americans can be more uneducated and mentally feeble than anything we could produce.

    The worry of the admiral is not that (like you) he is proud cattle who boasts that he can’t understand Kant. Worry is that (unlike you) he has an important job.

    As for descriptions of cattle, you can try to blame this on Jewish philology (this was one of Karlin’s most strange ideas that he misled foreign readers with, although perhaps it’s a compliment to him as it shows he wastes no time on the Russian internet where it is of course overused to the extent of being wearing).

    • Replies: @Epigon
    I think anonymous coward is a Russian from Russian Federation.

    I certainly get that laconic, archetypal Russian vibe from his posts.
    , @anonymous coward

    Anonymous Coward you are one of the better example here that Americans can be more uneducated and mentally feeble than anything we could produce.
     
    I'm not American, you tard.

    le cattle spiel
     
    Like I said, please leave the Jewish blabber at the cheder.

    The problem with Kant is not that he's hard to understand. The problem with Kant is that studying his dreck never, ever, ever made the world even a iota better. Kant is a parasite and a satanist. Nothing good ever came from Kant. (What other ethnic group is like that, I wonder, hmmm...)
  221. @Dmitry
    There are 66% more Swedish people in Sweden than there are Jewish people in America.

    So I wonder, are the latter believed as some kind of ubermenschen who control and have responsibility for decisions of other nationalities, including nationalities like Swedish people who are thousands of kilometers away, that are highly developed themselves, that have their own education, intellectual and spiritual heritage, and a higher quality of life.

    Also this belief in active and passive is very interesting. So Jewish people are active (like 'masters'), deciding the fate of the world, even if they compose 0.18% of the world population.

    While Swedish people are the passive race (?) whose decisions are result of others without their own responsibility or free choice. Even though Swedish people have the highest quality of life in the world, created some of the world's largest companies, have dozens of billionaires, have their own culture, writers, intellectuals, thirty Nobel prizes, one of the most advanced military-industrial complexes, build fighter planes, and have been unconquered (excluding their territories) for centuries.

    As Karlin has noted, it is very easy to draw a line regarding nationalism between the respective European spheres of influence of the USA and USSR.

    Just as Eastern Europe was remade along Soviet lines, utilising local collaborators, so a similar counterpart process was going on in Western Europe.

    Stalin is supposed to have said something along the lines of ‘whoever controls a territory imposes his own social system’ – this attitude sums up American cultural policy for its vassals well.

    And as the philosemitic Mr. Hack has admitted, Jews are responsible for creating much of modern American culture.

    The Pareto principle – law of the vital few – works well here, and Jews have proven, through their entrance to higher occupations and positions and their activism, that they are a determined minority.

    And ultimately, yes, a few million people in America have more influence than billions of Africans or Indians.

  222. @Dmitry

    I wasted almost an entire year of my life studying Kant... I wouldn’t quite say “there is no there there”, but only two basic points
     
    Without intending to cause any offense, it can be inferred the problem here (as generally when any people say these kind of things) is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.

    I'm not going to boast I am the amazing genius above others. But I have about 4 hours of my life studying Kant, and it was enough to blow up the brain.


    That said, it’s rather amusing that Russian admirals have opinions about Kant.
     
    I would like to assume this "admiral gopnik" would be unusual anywhere. But I have suspicion that very similar kinds of biological trash also are displaying themselves openly in America, China, etc, so that this may be becoming a global problem.

    the problem here is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.

    I was a university philosophy student at the time, writing papers on Kant and the philosophy of mathematics. However, we seem to agree that you made the wiser choice in the amount of time you spent on the subject.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Kant's ideas were some of the most wild and revolutionary ever proposed (and they don't seem much less revolutionary no).

    So I don't understand how a student could at the same time understand Kant (to the extent of writing papers on his philosophy of mathematics) and feel there was nothing there.
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    Kant remains a great thinker, but he is still seminal only in few areas left- ethics, aesthetics, political theory. His epistemology & similar fields are superseded by later developments of physics, mathematics & cognitive psychology (brain imaging etc.). Many of his most analyzed topics are now dated (sense, perception, phenomena, noumena,..).

    Just, this is the case with most philosophers. Those who are still worth reading basically offer a myth, some great vision of life & cosmos not, in most cases, susceptible to analysis or scientific verification. Other than that, apart from ethics/religious thought/aesthetics/political "science"- fundamental philosophical concepts, both East & West (mind, perception, karma, Being, essence, existence, senses, innate ideas, free will, reason, spirit, soul, ..) are, at best, just fruitful metaphors.

    Not that there is anything wrong with that....
  223. @Epigon
    Strawman articles:

    1. That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected - northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.

    2. In addition to obvious Finno-Ugric tribe presence, northern Russia has numerous "viking" burial sites of earlier date than Rurikid ascendance - but those "vikings" are not necessarily Norse/Germanics - it was a cultural/lifestyle thing. And the exchange between Scandinavia, Balts and Slavs was two-way - there are Swedish words of obvious Slavic descent. And as I have previously stated, the supposedly invincible Danes during the times of their North Sea Empire were unable to defend their own homeland against Slavic pirates of Baltic, the same way Balts raided Sweden later on.

    3. Genetics on that level is actually not important - culture, artifacts, language are more relevant.

    That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected – northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.

    But as noted, this particular Finno-Ugric branch were from Sweden, not Finland or Northern Russia.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    It is not very rewarding to test Y-DNA of long deceased people to find relation to modern populations. A lot has happened in both northern Russia and Sweden since 8th-9th century.

    Besides, even if the modern Swedes in that location and Rurikids share a male ancestor, it doesn't prove a Sweden-descended/Norman military elite subjugated Slavic and Finnic tribes of Rus'.
    , @Epigon
    To clarify what I meant by my comment: testing Nicholas II and his ancestors and looking for a region with genetically most similar population and then extrapolating from that data would point towards wrong conclusions.
  224. @Dmitry
    Anonymous Coward you are one of the better example here that Americans can be more uneducated and mentally feeble than anything we could produce.

    The worry of the admiral is not that (like you) he is proud cattle who boasts that he can't understand Kant. Worry is that (unlike you) he has an important job.

    As for descriptions of cattle, you can try to blame this on Jewish philology (this was one of Karlin's most strange ideas that he misled foreign readers with, although perhaps it's a compliment to him as it shows he wastes no time on the Russian internet where it is of course overused to the extent of being wearing).

    I think anonymous coward is a Russian from Russian Federation.

    I certainly get that laconic, archetypal Russian vibe from his posts.

  225. @The Big Red Scary

    the problem here is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.
     
    I was a university philosophy student at the time, writing papers on Kant and the philosophy of mathematics. However, we seem to agree that you made the wiser choice in the amount of time you spent on the subject.

    Kant’s ideas were some of the most wild and revolutionary ever proposed (and they don’t seem much less revolutionary no).

    So I don’t understand how a student could at the same time understand Kant (to the extent of writing papers on his philosophy of mathematics) and feel there was nothing there.

  226. @AP

    That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected – northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.
     
    But as noted, this particular Finno-Ugric branch were from Sweden, not Finland or Northern Russia.

    It is not very rewarding to test Y-DNA of long deceased people to find relation to modern populations. A lot has happened in both northern Russia and Sweden since 8th-9th century.

    Besides, even if the modern Swedes in that location and Rurikids share a male ancestor, it doesn’t prove a Sweden-descended/Norman military elite subjugated Slavic and Finnic tribes of Rus’.

    • Replies: @AP

    It is not very rewarding to test Y-DNA of long deceased people to find relation to modern populations. A lot has happened in both northern Russia and Sweden since 8th-9th century.
     
    Modern Rurikids match DNA of their ancestors, and match those of people from the Roslagen region of Sweden.

    Besides, even if the modern Swedes in that location and Rurikids share a male ancestor, it doesn’t prove a Sweden-descended/Norman military elite subjugated Slavic and Finnic tribes of Rus’.
     
    It's just another piece of the puzzle. The Rurikids kept hiring Scandinavian tutors for their kids, kept bringing back wives from Scandinavia, Vladimir seized the throne with Norse warriors he recruited while living in Norway, etc. My own paternal ancestors were Varangians by family legend, and DNA suggests they were from Norway.
  227. @Dmitry
    Anonymous Coward you are one of the better example here that Americans can be more uneducated and mentally feeble than anything we could produce.

    The worry of the admiral is not that (like you) he is proud cattle who boasts that he can't understand Kant. Worry is that (unlike you) he has an important job.

    As for descriptions of cattle, you can try to blame this on Jewish philology (this was one of Karlin's most strange ideas that he misled foreign readers with, although perhaps it's a compliment to him as it shows he wastes no time on the Russian internet where it is of course overused to the extent of being wearing).

    Anonymous Coward you are one of the better example here that Americans can be more uneducated and mentally feeble than anything we could produce.

    I’m not American, you tard.

    le cattle spiel

    Like I said, please leave the Jewish blabber at the cheder.

    The problem with Kant is not that he’s hard to understand. The problem with Kant is that studying his dreck never, ever, ever made the world even a iota better. Kant is a parasite and a satanist. Nothing good ever came from Kant. (What other ethnic group is like that, I wonder, hmmm…)

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    I’m not American, you tard.

     

    Well, some good news for the Americans.

    Jewish blabber
     
    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language, although you want another excuse to discuss that boring topic....


    at the cheder.
     
    This is a type of English cheese.

    . Kant is a parasite and a satanist.
     
    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) - then congratulations, it seems you have won again.
  228. @Epigon

    that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over
     
    No, they don't.

    Slavs were in Macedonia (Aegean as well as Strymon Macedonia) before Bulgarians were a thing, even before Bolghars invaded. In addition, those Slavs fought AGAINST Bulgarians when they expanded.
    Even more importantly, there was obviously a linguistic difference between the Slavic tribes that mixed with Bolghars to form the Bulgarians, and the Slavs that lived around Thessaloniki and whose dialect was used by Cyril and Methodius to create the Old Church Slavonic, Glagolitic script and which formed the basis of Old Slavonic languages - for starters, the number of cases is different, not to mention the -jat- difference - Bulgaria itself is actually divided into two historical dialect areas.

    The eastern part of FYROM/North Macedonia are actual Bulgarians - Strumica, for example Zoran Zaev.
    The rest of them are a diverse mix, including descendants of those who fled Greece during and after the Greek Civil War in the aftermath of WW2, and Serbs in the northern part concentrated around Kumanovo and Skoplje, assimilated by Yugocommunists (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski - even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were "treated" this way).

    You are an unreal fucking retard.

  229. @AP

    That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected – northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.
     
    But as noted, this particular Finno-Ugric branch were from Sweden, not Finland or Northern Russia.

    To clarify what I meant by my comment: testing Nicholas II and his ancestors and looking for a region with genetically most similar population and then extrapolating from that data would point towards wrong conclusions.

  230. @Epigon

    that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over
     
    No, they don't.

    Slavs were in Macedonia (Aegean as well as Strymon Macedonia) before Bulgarians were a thing, even before Bolghars invaded. In addition, those Slavs fought AGAINST Bulgarians when they expanded.
    Even more importantly, there was obviously a linguistic difference between the Slavic tribes that mixed with Bolghars to form the Bulgarians, and the Slavs that lived around Thessaloniki and whose dialect was used by Cyril and Methodius to create the Old Church Slavonic, Glagolitic script and which formed the basis of Old Slavonic languages - for starters, the number of cases is different, not to mention the -jat- difference - Bulgaria itself is actually divided into two historical dialect areas.

    The eastern part of FYROM/North Macedonia are actual Bulgarians - Strumica, for example Zoran Zaev.
    The rest of them are a diverse mix, including descendants of those who fled Greece during and after the Greek Civil War in the aftermath of WW2, and Serbs in the northern part concentrated around Kumanovo and Skoplje, assimilated by Yugocommunists (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski - even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were "treated" this way).

    So what? Ethnicities aren’t firmly fixed phenomena. If slavic speakers from Macedonia became Bulgarian at a later date than slavic speakers in Thrace and Bulgaria, it doesn’t make them any less Bulgarian. Every historian regards the overwhelming majority of slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia prior to the war as Bulgarians, exactly as they regarded themselves.

    (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski – even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were “treated” this way).

    If that even happened (the “yugocommunists” did this??), it was a total handsomely exceeded by those who had -ić endings rudely affixed to their surnames prior to WWII.

    • Replies: @Epigon

    If slavic speakers from Macedonia became Bulgarian at a later date than slavic speakers in Thrace and Bulgaria, it doesn’t make them any less Bulgarian.
     
    Then why did these Bulgarians need Bulgarian VMRO terrorists and propaganda funded from Sofia in late 19th and early 20th century to tell them they are Bulgarians?

    Every historian regards the overwhelming majority of slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia prior to the war as Bulgarians, exactly as they regarded themselves.
     
    But they didn't. That is the whole point. Slavs of Greece didn't identify as Bulgarians - those Slavs ended up in Macedonia in large numbers. In addition, Ottoman Macedonia was carved up in Balkan War - Aegean Macedonia became part of Greece, Pirin Macedonia became part of Bulgaria and Strymon Macedonia became part of Serbia. The last one is current FYROM/North Macedonia.

    it was a total handsomely exceeded by those who had -ić endings rudely affixed to their surnames prior to WWII.

     

    Reality and actual census data demonstrates the opposite.
    Also, the Yugocommunists burned all the records and church books they could get their hands on, and created the Macedonian Orthodox Church - all steps of a nation building process.


    @utu


    did the big Bulgarian dogs play a role in their successful invasion?
     
    Nope, it happened at an earlier date - Bulgarians came more than a century later.
  231. @Epigon

    that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over
     
    No, they don't.

    Slavs were in Macedonia (Aegean as well as Strymon Macedonia) before Bulgarians were a thing, even before Bolghars invaded. In addition, those Slavs fought AGAINST Bulgarians when they expanded.
    Even more importantly, there was obviously a linguistic difference between the Slavic tribes that mixed with Bolghars to form the Bulgarians, and the Slavs that lived around Thessaloniki and whose dialect was used by Cyril and Methodius to create the Old Church Slavonic, Glagolitic script and which formed the basis of Old Slavonic languages - for starters, the number of cases is different, not to mention the -jat- difference - Bulgaria itself is actually divided into two historical dialect areas.

    The eastern part of FYROM/North Macedonia are actual Bulgarians - Strumica, for example Zoran Zaev.
    The rest of them are a diverse mix, including descendants of those who fled Greece during and after the Greek Civil War in the aftermath of WW2, and Serbs in the northern part concentrated around Kumanovo and Skoplje, assimilated by Yugocommunists (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski - even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were "treated" this way).

    “Slavs were in Macedonia (Aegean as well as Strymon Macedonia) before Bulgarians were a thing, even before Bolghars invaded. “ – did the big Bulgarian dogs play a role in their successful invasion?

  232. @silviosilver
    So what? Ethnicities aren't firmly fixed phenomena. If slavic speakers from Macedonia became Bulgarian at a later date than slavic speakers in Thrace and Bulgaria, it doesn't make them any less Bulgarian. Every historian regards the overwhelming majority of slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia prior to the war as Bulgarians, exactly as they regarded themselves.

    (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski – even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were “treated” this way).
     
    If that even happened (the "yugocommunists" did this??), it was a total handsomely exceeded by those who had -ić endings rudely affixed to their surnames prior to WWII.

    If slavic speakers from Macedonia became Bulgarian at a later date than slavic speakers in Thrace and Bulgaria, it doesn’t make them any less Bulgarian.

    Then why did these Bulgarians need Bulgarian VMRO terrorists and propaganda funded from Sofia in late 19th and early 20th century to tell them they are Bulgarians?

    Every historian regards the overwhelming majority of slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia prior to the war as Bulgarians, exactly as they regarded themselves.

    But they didn’t. That is the whole point. Slavs of Greece didn’t identify as Bulgarians – those Slavs ended up in Macedonia in large numbers. In addition, Ottoman Macedonia was carved up in Balkan War – Aegean Macedonia became part of Greece, Pirin Macedonia became part of Bulgaria and Strymon Macedonia became part of Serbia. The last one is current FYROM/North Macedonia.

    it was a total handsomely exceeded by those who had -ić endings rudely affixed to their surnames prior to WWII.

    Reality and actual census data demonstrates the opposite.
    Also, the Yugocommunists burned all the records and church books they could get their hands on, and created the Macedonian Orthodox Church – all steps of a nation building process.

    did the big Bulgarian dogs play a role in their successful invasion?

    Nope, it happened at an earlier date – Bulgarians came more than a century later.

  233. @anonymous coward

    Anonymous Coward you are one of the better example here that Americans can be more uneducated and mentally feeble than anything we could produce.
     
    I'm not American, you tard.

    le cattle spiel
     
    Like I said, please leave the Jewish blabber at the cheder.

    The problem with Kant is not that he's hard to understand. The problem with Kant is that studying his dreck never, ever, ever made the world even a iota better. Kant is a parasite and a satanist. Nothing good ever came from Kant. (What other ethnic group is like that, I wonder, hmmm...)

    I’m not American, you tard.

    Well, some good news for the Americans.

    Jewish blabber

    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language, although you want another excuse to discuss that boring topic….

    at the cheder.

    This is a type of English cheese.

    . Kant is a parasite and a satanist.

    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) – then congratulations, it seems you have won again.

    • Replies: @Anon

    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.
     

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).
     
    "Redneck" is a word with a meaning. It's not a generic insult. Are you going for "peasant"? That's not really a mere insult either though; it also has a meaning. Maybe the wisest thing is just not to try to insult random strangers online in a language which is not that which comes first to your mind.
    , @anonymous coward

    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today
     
    Only among Jews.

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language
     
    That's something you could only believe if you don't ever interact meaningfully with goys.

    Believe it or not, we goys don't make it a habit to routinely dehumanize those not of the tribe. For us goys that kind of behavior is offensive and outrageous.

    This is a type of English cheese.
     
    Don't deflect, you know full well the insult I made.

    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) – then congratulations, it seems you have won again.
     
    Thanks for the meaningful and convincing argument. I will now bow down to Kant's superior intellect and light a black candle in worship of the Categorical Imperative.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Redneck only has a positive connotation when used by rednecks in reference to themselves and/or other rednecks. It is similar to how the blacks used the "n-word"
    , @iffen
    use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    Stop using the word : redneck, you ignorant retard. You do not know what the word means.
  234. @Thorfinnsson
    Sri Lanka is pretty fake. Unsure if it's gay or not.

    The (sort of disputed) Prime Minister is.

    You go kill a bunch of LTTE guys and we’ll talk about fake though.

  235. @AP
    So by this logic all countries that were once colonized are "fake and gay." India with Bombay/Mumbai, Slovakia with Pressburg/Bratislava, Sri Lanka/Ceylon, Myanmar/Burma, etc.

    It's sort of an admission that Ukraine was a colony of Russia, rather than an integral part of Russia.

    The Bombay/Mumbai thing was pretty stupid. But it’s a self-esteem thing. I can’t really judge the others except Sri Lanka, which probably ought to just be “Lanka”. But the main UK island calls itself “Great Britain”, so whatever.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Today it is more like “formerly great formerly Britain”.
    , @Hyperborean

    But the main UK island calls itself “Great Britain”, so whatever.
     
    This is because Brittany is 'Little Britain'.

    In French Great Britain is Grande Bretagne while Brittany is Bretagne. In German Great Britain is Großbritannien while Brittany used to be Kleinbritannien.

    Just how like Małopolska and Wielkopolska are territorial designations.

    This is not like what East Asians used to do.
  236. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    I’m not American, you tard.

     

    Well, some good news for the Americans.

    Jewish blabber
     
    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language, although you want another excuse to discuss that boring topic....


    at the cheder.
     
    This is a type of English cheese.

    . Kant is a parasite and a satanist.
     
    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) - then congratulations, it seems you have won again.

    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    “Redneck” is a word with a meaning. It’s not a generic insult. Are you going for “peasant”? That’s not really a mere insult either though; it also has a meaning. Maybe the wisest thing is just not to try to insult random strangers online in a language which is not that which comes first to your mind.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    Cattle is so overused, particularly on internet nowadays, it has become perhaps a bit meaningless though.*

    Also I believe English is too politically correct, to create equivalent translations. Nietzsche uses a French word "canaille" in his writing (but this probably has too much snobby connotation).


    -

    * Typing in the search engine of the newspapers for the last week:

    Bishop of Rostov said yesterday, government encourages liberal education because they want to create spiritually illiterate cattle (it's easier to manage cattle).

    Actor Andrei Gaydulyan has called his theatre audience cattle. Other actors denounce him for insulting his audience.

    Lena Miro has called circus director Zapashny cattle, after he denounced to Putin, that oligarch Mikhail Gutseriev is unpatriotic, for wanting to introduce Cirque du Soleil to Russia. (Zapashny is also being sued by Gutseriev now).

    Actress Natalya Vetlitskaya says Russian speaking "cattle-children" are bullying her daughter in in Spain. ("cattle-children").

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them "cattle" when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

  237. @songbird
    It has always been a wonder to me that Nigeria is a country. Meanwhile, I think it speaks volumes about the Commonwealth that Cameroon was allowed to join.

    There is something perhaps oddly unique about more modern colonialism. The Roman vulgate was corrupted and split into new tongues, which later influenced the formation of nations. But modern European colonialism ended in the age of modern communications and travel, so language may have been an artificial glue, even as the native languages persist. I wonder whether, for instance, India would really be a country without the English.

    I find that the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe.

    India is a civilization rather than a nation, and like Europe it has briefly been mostly united a few sporadic times in its history.

    Mauryan Empire

    Moghul Empire

    Maratha Confederacy

    British Raj

    Republic of India

    Compare to Europe with the Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Hapsburg Empire (Charles V), Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.

    • Agree: Talha, Swarthy Greek
    • Replies: @Gerard2
    This is the exact thing I was getting at when making the point about how Pakistan is a fake , but not gay, country. India is a multi-millennia civilisation.

    Pakistan has no less right , then India, to have been given the name "India" following Independence, if you know what I mean. Even more ridiculous that the creation of an independent series of states in the subcontinent had India, Pakistan.....and East Pakistan ( now called Bangladesh, after they fought for their Independence....against Pakistan). A typical British clown, created mess.
    India was majority ruled by Muslims just before the British rule, and even though Pakistan/Bangladesh were created on the Muslim issue...there are still 150 million+ Muslims in India.

    It must hurt massively culturally on some level, that with "Indian" food being a massive "export" to the world- most of this food is actually "Pakistani/Bangladeshi" in terms of who is cooking it, because most Indians are Hindus who don't eat meat......whereas Muslims do and most of the famous "Indian" dishes are their creations.

    From what I understand, none of these Pakistani's or Bangladeshi's have any problem with their food being called Indian, or themselves being referred to as Indian

    I know a few people from Goa, and even they strongly identify as part of this great Indian civilisation and culture ( they are constantly referring to typical positive Indian character traits as their own , and how "we" Indians are always very good at mathematics and Engineering). So they identify as Indian even though-

    1. They have Portugese names
    2. They are all Catholic
    3. Many look clearly different
    4. Goa was still a Portuguese colony until some time after Indian independence
    , @Beckow

    the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe
     
    NO!!! that's the worst way to think of India. India is the world's sewer: ancient, over-populated beyond any reasonable measure, unhealthy, dysfunctional, it fatally undermines anything it touches.

    In the same way as the Sub-Saharans undermine physical spaces in Europe, the Indians undermine the civilisational superstructure of Europe. Look at what happened to UK, it has collapsed in one generation and is overrun with different flavours of South Asian decline. It cannot be fixed once the Indian-Pakistani rot sets in: there are too many of them, they are relentless, and they function as parasites on more prosperous societies.

    Comparing India to Europe is an error, their civilised era was eons ago. Now they are a post-civilisation, something that will happen to Europe if it continues in its self-destructive absurd marriage to the Third World. Don't compare, just have some boundaries.
    , @songbird
    I never know what significance to give these Indian Empires. Could they be like the Ottamans, the Mongols, or Alexander the Great's empire? Not natural but ephemeral. The Chinese dismissal of India, who they may have more reason to know, since they are closer to it, strikes me as having some significance, when they hit upon its disunity.

    Another factor to evaluate may be Buddhism. Why did it originate in India and then practically vanish there, except for Sri Lanka? Well, one interpretation is that Buddhism requires a strong government to patronize monasteries, and that India experienced many periods of anarchy.

    BTW, I do prefer "Indian" as universal term for the subcontinent. When the term "Asian" is used, it just feels like they are trying to ride the coattails of East Asians, and it is a ridiculous term to use when they practically have their own continent. Maybe, I'm mischaracterizing its origins, but the BBC once used the term "South Asia" and then eliminated it. It is how it strikes one in America anyway.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    ...Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.
     
    Not the most reassuring examples!
    , @Thomm
    Heh. This is exactly the type of comment that can get Thorfinsson tagged as being 'Indian' by the White Trashionalists. The same has happened to him before, as well as to me, Jeff Stryker, and DB Cooper.

    According to the White Trashionalists, anyone who knows anything about India is 'Indian'.
  238. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @g2k
    Georgia complaing about being called gruzia and not Georgia is silly; the name conflicts with the us state and the British period in history. If they were to insist that everyone else called it Sakartvelo, now that would be fun.

    OT. They've just had an election over there where Saakashvili's party was expecting to retake the presidency, but didn't. If you follow Ben Aris's twitter, you'd have seen Euro-atlanticist talking heads spitting feathers saying that Ivanashvilli was buying vites, which was probably true to some extent. There were a few street protests but not enough people gave a crap and they petered out. Anyway, they elected some woman who was promising to restore the monarchy. I suspect it'll go the same way as Trump's border wall, but if it doesn't, it'll be interesting to see as it would make them the first ex-commie state to do so.

    OOT: Pasinyan now has a super-supermajority in Armenia. The old republican party didn't win a single seat. Nothing much seems to have come from this as yet though. I suspect the Yerevan 1% don't really want to rock the boat and just wanted to be free from the humiliation of being ruled by karabakh hicks.

    See, though, nobody outside the Slavic sphere of influence has ever heard of Gruzia, but we’ve all heard of Georgia and Georgians, and it sounds less bizarre to us though we probably pronounce it wrong. I suppose Georgia probably has closer connections with ex-Soviet places than with the rest of the world, so I guess the “Gruzia” thing will probably last a little longer.

    • Replies: @g2k
    I think you're severely overestimating peoples' general knowledge. Probably well under 25% of anglos have ever heard of Georgia. I'm surprised that there haven't been any articles about people accidentally booking flights to Tbilisi instead of Atalanta. It would be a great hidden camera prank though.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2603182/South-Ossetia-conflict-Concerned-US-citizen-gets-her-Georgias-confused.html
  239. @utu
    "the majority in Russia have learned their lesson and won’t be fooled again". - I hope this is true. If so, still the resolve was made on the rational level only but it was not integrated on the psychological level, so we see plenty of butt-hurt reactions.

    Psychologically, I don’t understand butt-hurt reactions of some Russians. However, they might be less prevalent than perceived from the outside. Thing is, in Russian culture traitors are considered maybe just a notch above child molesters. Traitors, along with informers, sneaks and snitches of all stripes, are universally despised. So, many Russians are hurt that their view of Ukrainians as normal people was so wrong. Personally, I think they are wrong. Current policies are driven not by Ukrainians, but by Ukies, constituting no more than 10% of the population of Ukraine. They suppress dissent of normal people because they are ruthless and vocal, like Zionists in the US. But they are still the tail, not the dog.

    • Replies: @utu
    I understand that having Ukraine breaking away is a hard pill to swallow for Russians. And it does not help when Ukrainians act like jerks. Ideally Russians will develop a magnanimous disregard with a slight hint of condescension towards them just like Czechs had it from the very beginning towards the Slovaks when they started acting up or Swedes had towards Norwegians when they wanted to split up.
  240. @Anon
    The Bombay/Mumbai thing was pretty stupid. But it's a self-esteem thing. I can't really judge the others except Sri Lanka, which probably ought to just be "Lanka". But the main UK island calls itself "Great Britain", so whatever.

    Today it is more like “formerly great formerly Britain”.

    • LOL: Spisarevski
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    I had that first, dude. Though surely multiple someones thought of it before me.
  241. @for-the-record
    Speaking of gay countries, I'm sure you'll all be pleased to learn the following:

    Boys can have periods too, children to be taught in latest victory for transgender campaigners

    chool children will be taught that "all genders" can have periods in new sex education lessons, in a victory for transgender rights campaigners.

    The advice to teachers was approved by Brighton & Hove City Council as they try to tackle stigma around menstruation.

    The new advice follows a council report which said: "Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods", adding that "menstruation must be inclusive of all genders".

    Bins used for menstruation products will be provided in all toilets for children, according to the report . . .

    The report recommends that "language and learning about periods is inclusive of all genders, cultures, faiths and sexual orientations. For example; ‘girls and women and others who have periods'".

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/16/boys-can-have-periods-schoolchildren-taught-latest-victory-transgender/
     

    This started in Australia where they vaccinate boys against HPV.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I recall seeing an ad spot in the US with a boy who aged into a young man and had cancer. It was kind of sub rosa, but I was thinking the implication was perhaps that he was a sodomite and that his parents were allegedly morally culpable for not anticipating his extreme sodomite lifestyle and vaccinating him.
  242. @Anon

    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.
     

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).
     
    "Redneck" is a word with a meaning. It's not a generic insult. Are you going for "peasant"? That's not really a mere insult either though; it also has a meaning. Maybe the wisest thing is just not to try to insult random strangers online in a language which is not that which comes first to your mind.

    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    Cattle is so overused, particularly on internet nowadays, it has become perhaps a bit meaningless though.*

    Also I believe English is too politically correct, to create equivalent translations. Nietzsche uses a French word “canaille” in his writing (but this probably has too much snobby connotation).

    * Typing in the search engine of the newspapers for the last week:

    Bishop of Rostov said yesterday, government encourages liberal education because they want to create spiritually illiterate cattle (it’s easier to manage cattle).

    Actor Andrei Gaydulyan has called his theatre audience cattle. Other actors denounce him for insulting his audience.

    Lena Miro has called circus director Zapashny cattle, after he denounced to Putin, that oligarch Mikhail Gutseriev is unpatriotic, for wanting to introduce Cirque du Soleil to Russia. (Zapashny is also being sued by Gutseriev now).

    Actress Natalya Vetlitskaya says Russian speaking “cattle-children” are bullying her daughter in in Spain. (“cattle-children”).

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them “cattle” when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?
     
    You already have a translation: "goy".
    , @Thorfinnsson
    moron

    fool

    idiot

    imbecile

    dumbshit

    dumbass

    retard

    dipshit

    blockhead

    bozo

    subnormal

    bird brain

    nitwit

    bonehead

    dimwit

    etc.
    , @songbird
    Most frequent barnyard insult in American English is to call someone "chicken" which means "cowardly". Since chickens are monstrous animals, it is not the word I would have chosen, but still it sounds right.

    Sometimes you hear the expression "dumb as an ox." Which of course is a type of cattle. another simile is "randy as a goat. " Plural insults seem rare, but there is the newer "sheeple."
    , @Anon

    Well we need to find the English translation
     
    This is an illusion.

    What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?
     
    What admiral? A suitable English insult implies you are suiting it to an occasion. Since a) I have no idea what the occasion might be and b) I prefer to read other than catalogues of insults, I recommend you simply deliver the insult in Russian; thus you can be more sure of its suitability and (obviously) equivalence to the Russian.

    Songbird and Thorf. have good suggestions if you must deliver in English.

    Nobody will understand you if you use any of these: https://www.urbandictionary.com/tags.php?tag=insult which is probably much to the better.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them “cattle” when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

     

    I'm getting the sense that Germans and their descendants here in America treat their/our farm animals better than Slavs treat theirs.
  243. @Seraphim
    The native name of 'Georgia/Грузия' is Sakartvelo (საქართველო) as it appears on Georgian passports.

    I asked a Georgian what the name of his country was in the Georgian tongue. He got confused, then said, in English, “the Land.” I could never make it clear to him what I was asking about.

    So, Sakartvelo, “land of Kartvelians.” You learn something new every day.

    • Replies: @Anon
    To aid those who already confuse Georgia with a US state, they can also call it Iberia and confuse it with a completely different place.
    , @Seraphim
    Eh, Georgia sounds more 'European'. Imagine getting in 'Europe' and NATO with an unpronounceable name for Anglos like Sakartvelo.
  244. @Anon
    See, though, nobody outside the Slavic sphere of influence has ever heard of Gruzia, but we've all heard of Georgia and Georgians, and it sounds less bizarre to us though we probably pronounce it wrong. I suppose Georgia probably has closer connections with ex-Soviet places than with the rest of the world, so I guess the "Gruzia" thing will probably last a little longer.

    I think you’re severely overestimating peoples’ general knowledge. Probably well under 25% of anglos have ever heard of Georgia. I’m surprised that there haven’t been any articles about people accidentally booking flights to Tbilisi instead of Atalanta. It would be a great hidden camera prank though.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2603182/South-Ossetia-conflict-Concerned-US-citizen-gets-her-Georgias-confused.html

  245. @Philip Owen
    This started in Australia where they vaccinate boys against HPV.

    I recall seeing an ad spot in the US with a boy who aged into a young man and had cancer. It was kind of sub rosa, but I was thinking the implication was perhaps that he was a sodomite and that his parents were allegedly morally culpable for not anticipating his extreme sodomite lifestyle and vaccinating him.

  246. @Dmitry

    I’m not American, you tard.

     

    Well, some good news for the Americans.

    Jewish blabber
     
    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language, although you want another excuse to discuss that boring topic....


    at the cheder.
     
    This is a type of English cheese.

    . Kant is a parasite and a satanist.
     
    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) - then congratulations, it seems you have won again.

    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today

    Only among Jews.

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language

    That’s something you could only believe if you don’t ever interact meaningfully with goys.

    Believe it or not, we goys don’t make it a habit to routinely dehumanize those not of the tribe. For us goys that kind of behavior is offensive and outrageous.

    This is a type of English cheese.

    Don’t deflect, you know full well the insult I made.

    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) – then congratulations, it seems you have won again.

    Thanks for the meaningful and convincing argument. I will now bow down to Kant’s superior intellect and light a black candle in worship of the Categorical Imperative.

  247. @Dmitry
    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    Cattle is so overused, particularly on internet nowadays, it has become perhaps a bit meaningless though.*

    Also I believe English is too politically correct, to create equivalent translations. Nietzsche uses a French word "canaille" in his writing (but this probably has too much snobby connotation).


    -

    * Typing in the search engine of the newspapers for the last week:

    Bishop of Rostov said yesterday, government encourages liberal education because they want to create spiritually illiterate cattle (it's easier to manage cattle).

    Actor Andrei Gaydulyan has called his theatre audience cattle. Other actors denounce him for insulting his audience.

    Lena Miro has called circus director Zapashny cattle, after he denounced to Putin, that oligarch Mikhail Gutseriev is unpatriotic, for wanting to introduce Cirque du Soleil to Russia. (Zapashny is also being sued by Gutseriev now).

    Actress Natalya Vetlitskaya says Russian speaking "cattle-children" are bullying her daughter in in Spain. ("cattle-children").

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them "cattle" when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    You already have a translation: “goy”.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    "Goy" means in the Bible "nationality" (for example Jews call themselves "Goy Kadosh" - "holy nation"). In later use, it becomes referring to members of other nations than Jews (non-Jews), by its absence of "holy" or "chosen" written after the word "nation". In this sense, a "goy" refers by absence to a non-Jew (any person whose maternal grandmother was not a Jew).

    In the case above, we have an admiral who thinks Kant writes nonsense, and that Kant (a German who has been in the Russian Empire only 4 years of his 79 year life) was a traitor, who begged for a university job. So not just a stupid person, but one proud of their stupidity.

    Here are two concepts:

    1. A person who is not Jewish.

    2. An idiot who seems to think Kant was Russian living in Russian Empire, and who boasts proudly about not understanding his books.

    Connection between the two concepts, there is not.

  248. @anonymous coward

    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?
     
    You already have a translation: "goy".

    “Goy” means in the Bible “nationality” (for example Jews call themselves “Goy Kadosh” – “holy nation”). In later use, it becomes referring to members of other nations than Jews (non-Jews), by its absence of “holy” or “chosen” written after the word “nation”. In this sense, a “goy” refers by absence to a non-Jew (any person whose maternal grandmother was not a Jew).

    In the case above, we have an admiral who thinks Kant writes nonsense, and that Kant (a German who has been in the Russian Empire only 4 years of his 79 year life) was a traitor, who begged for a university job. So not just a stupid person, but one proud of their stupidity.

    Here are two concepts:

    1. A person who is not Jewish.

    2. An idiot who seems to think Kant was Russian living in Russian Empire, and who boasts proudly about not understanding his books.

    Connection between the two concepts, there is not.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    "Goy" is an insult, as you know full well. Ask your parents and grandparents what the word "bydlo" really signifies.

    who thinks Kant writes nonsense
     
    That's a sane and normal position. Kant did, indeed, write nonsense.

    ...and that Kant (a German who has been in the Russian Empire only 4 years of his 79 year life) was a traitor, who begged for a university job
     
    The admiral never said that Kant was a traitor to Russia. Specifically, he said that Kant "betrayed his homeland". Kant's homeland wasn't Russia.

    Learn some basic literacy and critical thinking before throwing around Jewish racist insults.

    P.S. Why is that the most toxic and arrogant Jews are always the dumbest? Rest assured, if some putz is screeching about 'cattle', 'subhumans' and Jewish racial supremacy, then he's an 80-IQ retard in real life.

    This admiral's job has nothing to do with philosophy or history, and yet he seems to know much more about Kant's biography that you do.
  249. @Matra
    In Ireland;

    Northern Ireland v North of Ireland

    Protestants always say the former. Catholics used to insist on the latter but since the 1998 referendum when they formally recognised the Northern Ireland state (even if only temporarily) started to say the former more often, especially when in mixed company.

    Ulster v The Six Counties

    Because Protestants have so aggressively, and somewhat arrogantly, claimed the former the Catholics generally don't use it unless speaking about history or the local rugby team.

    Londonderry v Derry

    Protestants use both for the city and county fairly indiscriminately without much fuss but Catholics absolutely always say 'Derry' unless they work in an official capacity (eg. BBC news reader) then they must alternate between the two.

    British Isles v These Isles

    Protestants always say 'British isles' and think saying 'these isles' is retarded. Catholics usually say 'these isles' but probably don't really mind if a non-Irish person inserts the 'British' part as they know they're not likely trying to score political points.

    Even football v soccer has come up a few times with the more anal Catholics insisting on referring to the non-indigenous game as 'soccer' like they do in North America and Australia. Even most Catholics would roll their eyes at this.

    Great Britain is the biggest of the many British islands just like Gran Canaria is the biggest of the Canaries. It shouldn’t be even mildly controversial to use this name.

  250. @DFH

    Language is power.
     
    Hence the ongoing French and Greek domination of Britain

    Pretty poor attempt at a gotcha given that the English language is the lingua franca (pun unintended!) of the modern world. English has more influence on languages today than any of the other two, and we live in the here and now, and not centuries ago. Also, reducing it to whose nation has more loanwords is kind of autistic and besides the point.

    I was thinking about it the way we use language and how it shapes our thinking, though this obviously went right over your head like a lead balloon 😉

    • Replies: @DFH

    reducing it to whose nation has more loanwords is kind of autistic and besides the point

     

    But that was exactly what you were objecting to in what was, if I may say so, a kind of autistic and besides the point way

    Today, Hindi is often peppered with a lot of English phrases. There ought to be a general movement in Bharat today to clean up the language and root it in the local population and its accordant customs and traditions.
     
  251. @Dmitry
    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    Cattle is so overused, particularly on internet nowadays, it has become perhaps a bit meaningless though.*

    Also I believe English is too politically correct, to create equivalent translations. Nietzsche uses a French word "canaille" in his writing (but this probably has too much snobby connotation).


    -

    * Typing in the search engine of the newspapers for the last week:

    Bishop of Rostov said yesterday, government encourages liberal education because they want to create spiritually illiterate cattle (it's easier to manage cattle).

    Actor Andrei Gaydulyan has called his theatre audience cattle. Other actors denounce him for insulting his audience.

    Lena Miro has called circus director Zapashny cattle, after he denounced to Putin, that oligarch Mikhail Gutseriev is unpatriotic, for wanting to introduce Cirque du Soleil to Russia. (Zapashny is also being sued by Gutseriev now).

    Actress Natalya Vetlitskaya says Russian speaking "cattle-children" are bullying her daughter in in Spain. ("cattle-children").

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them "cattle" when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

    moron

    fool

    idiot

    imbecile

    dumbshit

    dumbass

    retard

    dipshit

    blockhead

    bozo

    subnormal

    bird brain

    nitwit

    bonehead

    dimwit

    etc.

  252. @Thorfinnsson
    I find that the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe.

    India is a civilization rather than a nation, and like Europe it has briefly been mostly united a few sporadic times in its history.

    Mauryan Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Maurya_Empire%2C_c.250_BCE_2.png

    Moghul Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Mughal1700.png

    Maratha Confederacy

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/India1760_1905.jpg

    British Raj

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/British_Indian_Empire_1909_Imperial_Gazetteer_of_India.jpg

    Republic of India

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/India_topo_big.jpg

    Compare to Europe with the Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Hapsburg Empire (Charles V), Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.

    This is the exact thing I was getting at when making the point about how Pakistan is a fake , but not gay, country. India is a multi-millennia civilisation.

    Pakistan has no less right , then India, to have been given the name “India” following Independence, if you know what I mean. Even more ridiculous that the creation of an independent series of states in the subcontinent had India, Pakistan…..and East Pakistan ( now called Bangladesh, after they fought for their Independence….against Pakistan). A typical British clown, created mess.
    India was majority ruled by Muslims just before the British rule, and even though Pakistan/Bangladesh were created on the Muslim issue…there are still 150 million+ Muslims in India.

    It must hurt massively culturally on some level, that with “Indian” food being a massive “export” to the world- most of this food is actually “Pakistani/Bangladeshi” in terms of who is cooking it, because most Indians are Hindus who don’t eat meat……whereas Muslims do and most of the famous “Indian” dishes are their creations.

    From what I understand, none of these Pakistani’s or Bangladeshi’s have any problem with their food being called Indian, or themselves being referred to as Indian

    I know a few people from Goa, and even they strongly identify as part of this great Indian civilisation and culture ( they are constantly referring to typical positive Indian character traits as their own , and how “we” Indians are always very good at mathematics and Engineering). So they identify as Indian even though-

    1. They have Portugese names
    2. They are all Catholic
    3. Many look clearly different
    4. Goa was still a Portuguese colony until some time after Indian independence

  253. @Vishnugupta
    The word Hindu comes from old Persian pronunciation if Sindhu(Indus) to refer to people on the other side of the Indus river the then border between the Achmaneid Persian empire and Indian states.

    It predates Islam by over a millennia. The formal name of Hinduism is Sanatan Dharma BTW.

    I am all for naming cities to Hindu names if cities existed prior to their conquest so Ahmadabad should become Karnavati ,Allahabad should become Prayag etc.

    Btw Hindu India had more or less destroyed Muslim power in the 18th century under the Brahmin founded Maratha Empire...which was by far the biggest military force on the sub continent at the dawn of British Rule.

    There is a campaign to Sanskritize Hindi by purging it of Persian,Turkic and Arab words..Official Hindi is basically that and marks are deducted in exams for using middle eastern words instead of their Sanskrit equivalents..Sanskrit is also widely taught in schools.

    We need to atleast semi industrialize and the world needs to enter the post oil age (both likely in 15-20 years) for us to fully show the followers of the Arabian mental illness their place..till then we have to put up atleast a facade of civility and speak about how the bastards 'enriched' Indian civilization...

    The extent of Muslim devastation of India is truly horrific..the gangetic belt the heartland of Hindu civilization and the most fertile land in all Eurasia was basically flattened with every major temple and university destroyed..

    They will pay for this!

    The word Hindu comes from old Persian pronunciation if Sindhu(Indus) to refer to people on the other side of the Indus river the then border between the Achmaneid Persian empire and Indian states.
    It predates Islam by over a millennia.

    Right, but it is still foreign, Islamic influence or not. Hindustan is also a common word used in Hindi to describe India, which also comes from persians IIRC.

    The formal name of Hinduism is Sanatan Dharma BTW.

    I’ve heard about this before, though I would take issue calling it ‘formal’. Indigenous is probably a better term.

    I am all for naming cities to Hindu names if cities existed prior to their conquest so Ahmadabad should become Karnavati ,Allahabad should become Prayag

    Even if someone doesn’t care about the poetic justice of it all, one should still support it on the basis of aethestics. Karnavati sounds a lot better. I also prefer Gurugram to Gurgaeon. Kolkata definitely sounds better than Calcutta, which has a clownish tinge to it. The only oldschool names I’d prefer would probably be Bangalore over Bengaluru. Bombay does sound cooler than Mumbai. But overall, most new names are net improvements.

    There is a campaign to Sanskritize Hindi by purging it of Persian,Turkic and Arab words.

    That’s good, but as a non-Hindi speaker who listen to Indian officials and even Indian media from time to time, what strikes you is the extent to which people pepper their lingo with English words inserted, this is especially the case in more formal settings where discussions can become technocratic.

    Sanskrit is also widely taught in schools.

    doubt.jpeg

    Maybe in elite schools. And Indian primary and secondary school system quality is quite poor, as we saw in PISA 2009. The key question is how many have a strong grasp of the language. I’d doubt even 1% of the 15-24 population does. You’re more than welcome to provide sources for the “widely taught” remark. A lot of elite Indians tend to define themselves as ‘middle-class’ even if they are anything but. This seems like something similar.

    We need to atleast semi industrialize and the world needs to enter the post oil age (both likely in 15-20 years) for us to fully show the followers of the Arabian mental illness their place..till then we have to put up atleast a facade of civility and speak about how the bastards ‘enriched’ Indian civilization…
    The extent of Muslim devastation of India is truly horrific..the gangetic belt the heartland of Hindu civilization and the most fertile land in all Eurasia was basically flattened with every major temple and university destroyed..
    They will pay for this!

    It seems to me that India doesn’t have to do that much, if the ongoing crisis in Pakistan is anything to go by. It might even be in India’s interest to keep it from totally fall apart and face a nightmare nuclear proliferation scenario.

    It also appears to me that the main challenge to India is environmental, especially related to water. You also seem to have issues with employment generation. Plenty of protests by traditionally land-owning castes like the Jats in Haryana, Marathas, Patidars in Gujarat and others is worrisome. These were not traditionally backward castes and their demand for reservations show us that there is deep economic anxiety and pain in the Hindu heartland. Part of it is the non-viability of Indian agriculture, where these castes have seen their lands shrink by the decades as more and more infrastructure needed to be built, but insufficient jobs in the non-agricultural, especially manufacturing, sector was provided as an offset. Many jobs in the cities are petty and informal services.

    Next year it is election season. It is amusing to see Pappu and Modi Kaka trying to outdo themselves in farm loan waivers. Just today Gujarat went one step beyond and announced electricity bill waivers for the rural countryside.

    All of this, I think, is a distressing sign of the future. India has a very high-performing elite but it doesn’t seem to be able to create the kind of mass prosperity that China was able to.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    "Next year it is election season. It is amusing to see Pappu and Modi Kaka trying to outdo themselves in farm loan waivers. Just today Gujarat went one step beyond and announced electricity bill waivers for the rural countryside"

    That is the basic flaw of one man one vote democracy which is why it is (thankfully) in retreat everywhere.In every democracy politicians will promise voters goodies from the public purse..money that they did not earn and could almost always be used in more productive ways(Infrastructure,R&D Expenditure etc.).

    The important thing is in India there is not (yet) Latin American levels of fiscal irresponsibility and it isn't as bad.Also being resource poor politicians don't have a resource sale largess to squander at the end of the day Indian state revenue is from taxation of a productive non resource extraction economy and the key players of this non resource extraction economy(Ambani, Tata, Birla etc.) also finance the political class.

    Farm loan waivers are in per capita terms a rounding error compared to per capita goodie distribution via the welfare state in modern economies.Its regrettable but not catastrophic.
  254. @Thulean Friend
    Pretty poor attempt at a gotcha given that the English language is the lingua franca (pun unintended!) of the modern world. English has more influence on languages today than any of the other two, and we live in the here and now, and not centuries ago. Also, reducing it to whose nation has more loanwords is kind of autistic and besides the point.

    I was thinking about it the way we use language and how it shapes our thinking, though this obviously went right over your head like a lead balloon ;)

    reducing it to whose nation has more loanwords is kind of autistic and besides the point

    But that was exactly what you were objecting to in what was, if I may say so, a kind of autistic and besides the point way

    Today, Hindi is often peppered with a lot of English phrases. There ought to be a general movement in Bharat today to clean up the language and root it in the local population and its accordant customs and traditions.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    Congratulations, you continually miss the point. Here's the part you left out of your quote:

    I would also change India to Bharat even in English. Hindustan is sometimes used in Hindi (both of those words are also imported/have their roots from foreign muslim rulers).
     
    The line denotes the argument that quality, and not just quantity, matters. Core words in Hindi - including the name of the language itself! - is foreign. To my mind, neither French or Greek can claim that kind of domination over English. Therefore, the reductionist interpretation is exactly the wrong way to understand it. Not that it didn't prevent you from drawing the wrong conclusion - repeatedly.


    If you are too dumb to understand something, it's better to pipe down than to double down and just make yourself look even dumber.

  255. @Thorfinnsson
    I find that the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe.

    India is a civilization rather than a nation, and like Europe it has briefly been mostly united a few sporadic times in its history.

    Mauryan Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Maurya_Empire%2C_c.250_BCE_2.png

    Moghul Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Mughal1700.png

    Maratha Confederacy

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/India1760_1905.jpg

    British Raj

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/British_Indian_Empire_1909_Imperial_Gazetteer_of_India.jpg

    Republic of India

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/India_topo_big.jpg

    Compare to Europe with the Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Hapsburg Empire (Charles V), Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.

    the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe

    NO!!! that’s the worst way to think of India. India is the world’s sewer: ancient, over-populated beyond any reasonable measure, unhealthy, dysfunctional, it fatally undermines anything it touches.

    In the same way as the Sub-Saharans undermine physical spaces in Europe, the Indians undermine the civilisational superstructure of Europe. Look at what happened to UK, it has collapsed in one generation and is overrun with different flavours of South Asian decline. It cannot be fixed once the Indian-Pakistani rot sets in: there are too many of them, they are relentless, and they function as parasites on more prosperous societies.

    Comparing India to Europe is an error, their civilised era was eons ago. Now they are a post-civilisation, something that will happen to Europe if it continues in its self-destructive absurd marriage to the Third World. Don’t compare, just have some boundaries.

    • Replies: @AP
    You completely missed the point of the comparison.
  256. @Dmitry
    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    Cattle is so overused, particularly on internet nowadays, it has become perhaps a bit meaningless though.*

    Also I believe English is too politically correct, to create equivalent translations. Nietzsche uses a French word "canaille" in his writing (but this probably has too much snobby connotation).


    -

    * Typing in the search engine of the newspapers for the last week:

    Bishop of Rostov said yesterday, government encourages liberal education because they want to create spiritually illiterate cattle (it's easier to manage cattle).

    Actor Andrei Gaydulyan has called his theatre audience cattle. Other actors denounce him for insulting his audience.

    Lena Miro has called circus director Zapashny cattle, after he denounced to Putin, that oligarch Mikhail Gutseriev is unpatriotic, for wanting to introduce Cirque du Soleil to Russia. (Zapashny is also being sued by Gutseriev now).

    Actress Natalya Vetlitskaya says Russian speaking "cattle-children" are bullying her daughter in in Spain. ("cattle-children").

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them "cattle" when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

    Most frequent barnyard insult in American English is to call someone “chicken” which means “cowardly”. Since chickens are monstrous animals, it is not the word I would have chosen, but still it sounds right.

    Sometimes you hear the expression “dumb as an ox.” Which of course is a type of cattle. another simile is “randy as a goat. ” Plural insults seem rare, but there is the newer “sheeple.”

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I think the most insulting one is "sheeple". But you also need to combine with some concept of low class and swinish connotations.

    The funniest internet insults I've read here was from our friend Gerard (whatever he is calling AP every week).

  257. @AnonFromTN
    Psychologically, I don’t understand butt-hurt reactions of some Russians. However, they might be less prevalent than perceived from the outside. Thing is, in Russian culture traitors are considered maybe just a notch above child molesters. Traitors, along with informers, sneaks and snitches of all stripes, are universally despised. So, many Russians are hurt that their view of Ukrainians as normal people was so wrong. Personally, I think they are wrong. Current policies are driven not by Ukrainians, but by Ukies, constituting no more than 10% of the population of Ukraine. They suppress dissent of normal people because they are ruthless and vocal, like Zionists in the US. But they are still the tail, not the dog.

    I understand that having Ukraine breaking away is a hard pill to swallow for Russians. And it does not help when Ukrainians act like jerks. Ideally Russians will develop a magnanimous disregard with a slight hint of condescension towards them just like Czechs had it from the very beginning towards the Slovaks when they started acting up or Swedes had towards Norwegians when they wanted to split up.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Can’t speak for Russians in Russia, but the polls there show steady decline of positive views on Ukraine and steady rise in negative views. In fact, even beautiful and melodious Ukrainian language, which used to be admired in many popular songs in USSR times, is now prompting rejection in Russia. From my perspective, for this alone Ukrainians should cut off Ukies’ genitals and nail them to trees before hanging Ukies on lampposts.
  258. @utu
    I understand that having Ukraine breaking away is a hard pill to swallow for Russians. And it does not help when Ukrainians act like jerks. Ideally Russians will develop a magnanimous disregard with a slight hint of condescension towards them just like Czechs had it from the very beginning towards the Slovaks when they started acting up or Swedes had towards Norwegians when they wanted to split up.

    Can’t speak for Russians in Russia, but the polls there show steady decline of positive views on Ukraine and steady rise in negative views. In fact, even beautiful and melodious Ukrainian language, which used to be admired in many popular songs in USSR times, is now prompting rejection in Russia. From my perspective, for this alone Ukrainians should cut off Ukies’ genitals and nail them to trees before hanging Ukies on lampposts.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Hey Janissary - your self deprecating and self loathing behavior is really pathetic. What a schmuck! :-(
  259. @Thorfinnsson
    I find that the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe.

    India is a civilization rather than a nation, and like Europe it has briefly been mostly united a few sporadic times in its history.

    Mauryan Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Maurya_Empire%2C_c.250_BCE_2.png

    Moghul Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Mughal1700.png

    Maratha Confederacy

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/India1760_1905.jpg

    British Raj

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/British_Indian_Empire_1909_Imperial_Gazetteer_of_India.jpg

    Republic of India

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/India_topo_big.jpg

    Compare to Europe with the Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Hapsburg Empire (Charles V), Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.

    I never know what significance to give these Indian Empires. Could they be like the Ottamans, the Mongols, or Alexander the Great’s empire? Not natural but ephemeral. The Chinese dismissal of India, who they may have more reason to know, since they are closer to it, strikes me as having some significance, when they hit upon its disunity.

    Another factor to evaluate may be Buddhism. Why did it originate in India and then practically vanish there, except for Sri Lanka? Well, one interpretation is that Buddhism requires a strong government to patronize monasteries, and that India experienced many periods of anarchy.

    BTW, I do prefer “Indian” as universal term for the subcontinent. When the term “Asian” is used, it just feels like they are trying to ride the coattails of East Asians, and it is a ridiculous term to use when they practically have their own continent. Maybe, I’m mischaracterizing its origins, but the BBC once used the term “South Asia” and then eliminated it. It is how it strikes one in America anyway.

    • Replies: @Anon

    who they may have more reason to know
     
    I'm not Chinese or Indian but my impression is that the Chinese know remarkably little about India; not that if they knew more they'd be much more favorable.

    I never know what significance to give these Indian Empires
     
    There are a lot of them. It's usually the case historically, or so at least it seems, that Northern India has an anarchy of statelets and a loose hegemonic power (or several) either falling from importance or coming into power. I suppose it's not unlike historical Germany, without the coherence provided by the HRE. Southern India has its own historical patterns which are generally more stable.

    Buddhism lasted a long while up in the Indus valley, in some of what is now Pakistan. That ended predictably.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    China might border India, but contacts between India and China are quite modest. The Himalayas are a formidable barrier, and the Chinese side of the border is sparsely populated and has not always been part of China or even Chinese civilization.

    Both countries have more contact with the West than they do each other.

    I don't know that any Indian empires were "natural", but the subcontinent is clearly a single civilization and has been recognized as such by its inhabitants for a very long time. Just as there have been many Indian empires, there have been many Persian empires.

    The Indian subcontinent has formidable natural geographic boundaries which served to consolidate their cultural space. The term dharma, encompassing all Indian religions, has been in use for thousands of years.
  260. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry
    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    Cattle is so overused, particularly on internet nowadays, it has become perhaps a bit meaningless though.*

    Also I believe English is too politically correct, to create equivalent translations. Nietzsche uses a French word "canaille" in his writing (but this probably has too much snobby connotation).


    -

    * Typing in the search engine of the newspapers for the last week:

    Bishop of Rostov said yesterday, government encourages liberal education because they want to create spiritually illiterate cattle (it's easier to manage cattle).

    Actor Andrei Gaydulyan has called his theatre audience cattle. Other actors denounce him for insulting his audience.

    Lena Miro has called circus director Zapashny cattle, after he denounced to Putin, that oligarch Mikhail Gutseriev is unpatriotic, for wanting to introduce Cirque du Soleil to Russia. (Zapashny is also being sued by Gutseriev now).

    Actress Natalya Vetlitskaya says Russian speaking "cattle-children" are bullying her daughter in in Spain. ("cattle-children").

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them "cattle" when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

    Well we need to find the English translation

    This is an illusion.

    What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    What admiral? A suitable English insult implies you are suiting it to an occasion. Since a) I have no idea what the occasion might be and b) I prefer to read other than catalogues of insults, I recommend you simply deliver the insult in Russian; thus you can be more sure of its suitability and (obviously) equivalence to the Russian.

    Songbird and Thorf. have good suggestions if you must deliver in English.

    Nobody will understand you if you use any of these: https://www.urbandictionary.com/tags.php?tag=insult which is probably much to the better.

  261. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird
    I never know what significance to give these Indian Empires. Could they be like the Ottamans, the Mongols, or Alexander the Great's empire? Not natural but ephemeral. The Chinese dismissal of India, who they may have more reason to know, since they are closer to it, strikes me as having some significance, when they hit upon its disunity.

    Another factor to evaluate may be Buddhism. Why did it originate in India and then practically vanish there, except for Sri Lanka? Well, one interpretation is that Buddhism requires a strong government to patronize monasteries, and that India experienced many periods of anarchy.

    BTW, I do prefer "Indian" as universal term for the subcontinent. When the term "Asian" is used, it just feels like they are trying to ride the coattails of East Asians, and it is a ridiculous term to use when they practically have their own continent. Maybe, I'm mischaracterizing its origins, but the BBC once used the term "South Asia" and then eliminated it. It is how it strikes one in America anyway.

    who they may have more reason to know

    I’m not Chinese or Indian but my impression is that the Chinese know remarkably little about India; not that if they knew more they’d be much more favorable.

    I never know what significance to give these Indian Empires

    There are a lot of them. It’s usually the case historically, or so at least it seems, that Northern India has an anarchy of statelets and a loose hegemonic power (or several) either falling from importance or coming into power. I suppose it’s not unlike historical Germany, without the coherence provided by the HRE. Southern India has its own historical patterns which are generally more stable.

    Buddhism lasted a long while up in the Indus valley, in some of what is now Pakistan. That ended predictably.

  262. @AnonFromTN
    Can’t speak for Russians in Russia, but the polls there show steady decline of positive views on Ukraine and steady rise in negative views. In fact, even beautiful and melodious Ukrainian language, which used to be admired in many popular songs in USSR times, is now prompting rejection in Russia. From my perspective, for this alone Ukrainians should cut off Ukies’ genitals and nail them to trees before hanging Ukies on lampposts.

    Hey Janissary – your self deprecating and self loathing behavior is really pathetic. What a schmuck! 🙁

  263. @Dmitry

    I’m not American, you tard.

     

    Well, some good news for the Americans.

    Jewish blabber
     
    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language, although you want another excuse to discuss that boring topic....


    at the cheder.
     
    This is a type of English cheese.

    . Kant is a parasite and a satanist.
     
    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) - then congratulations, it seems you have won again.

    Redneck only has a positive connotation when used by rednecks in reference to themselves and/or other rednecks. It is similar to how the blacks used the “n-word”

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Anon
    But it's not a generic insult, it's a term of description. If I get angry with my shyster NY lawyer, I don't say: "How could you lose me the estate, you d--n redneck?" Whereas the negative connotations certainly exist, they arise originally mostly from people who look down on a certain class of laborers.
  264. @Dmitry
    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    Cattle is so overused, particularly on internet nowadays, it has become perhaps a bit meaningless though.*

    Also I believe English is too politically correct, to create equivalent translations. Nietzsche uses a French word "canaille" in his writing (but this probably has too much snobby connotation).


    -

    * Typing in the search engine of the newspapers for the last week:

    Bishop of Rostov said yesterday, government encourages liberal education because they want to create spiritually illiterate cattle (it's easier to manage cattle).

    Actor Andrei Gaydulyan has called his theatre audience cattle. Other actors denounce him for insulting his audience.

    Lena Miro has called circus director Zapashny cattle, after he denounced to Putin, that oligarch Mikhail Gutseriev is unpatriotic, for wanting to introduce Cirque du Soleil to Russia. (Zapashny is also being sued by Gutseriev now).

    Actress Natalya Vetlitskaya says Russian speaking "cattle-children" are bullying her daughter in in Spain. ("cattle-children").

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them "cattle" when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them “cattle” when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

    I’m getting the sense that Germans and their descendants here in America treat their/our farm animals better than Slavs treat theirs.

  265. @The Anti-Gnostic
    I asked a Georgian what the name of his country was in the Georgian tongue. He got confused, then said, in English, "the Land." I could never make it clear to him what I was asking about.

    So, Sakartvelo, "land of Kartvelians." You learn something new every day.

    To aid those who already confuse Georgia with a US state, they can also call it Iberia and confuse it with a completely different place.

  266. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Redneck only has a positive connotation when used by rednecks in reference to themselves and/or other rednecks. It is similar to how the blacks used the "n-word"

    But it’s not a generic insult, it’s a term of description. If I get angry with my shyster NY lawyer, I don’t say: “How could you lose me the estate, you d–n redneck?” Whereas the negative connotations certainly exist, they arise originally mostly from people who look down on a certain class of laborers.

  267. @Dmitry

    I’m not American, you tard.

     

    Well, some good news for the Americans.

    Jewish blabber
     
    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language, although you want another excuse to discuss that boring topic....


    at the cheder.
     
    This is a type of English cheese.

    . Kant is a parasite and a satanist.
     
    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) - then congratulations, it seems you have won again.

    use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    Stop using the word : redneck, you ignorant retard. You do not know what the word means.

  268. India has far more languages than China. This suggests the Aboriginal populations were more numerous, harder to displace. They were conquered for tribute rather displaced for land. The Ganges plain is hard to beat.

  269. @songbird
    I never know what significance to give these Indian Empires. Could they be like the Ottamans, the Mongols, or Alexander the Great's empire? Not natural but ephemeral. The Chinese dismissal of India, who they may have more reason to know, since they are closer to it, strikes me as having some significance, when they hit upon its disunity.

    Another factor to evaluate may be Buddhism. Why did it originate in India and then practically vanish there, except for Sri Lanka? Well, one interpretation is that Buddhism requires a strong government to patronize monasteries, and that India experienced many periods of anarchy.

    BTW, I do prefer "Indian" as universal term for the subcontinent. When the term "Asian" is used, it just feels like they are trying to ride the coattails of East Asians, and it is a ridiculous term to use when they practically have their own continent. Maybe, I'm mischaracterizing its origins, but the BBC once used the term "South Asia" and then eliminated it. It is how it strikes one in America anyway.

    China might border India, but contacts between India and China are quite modest. The Himalayas are a formidable barrier, and the Chinese side of the border is sparsely populated and has not always been part of China or even Chinese civilization.

    Both countries have more contact with the West than they do each other.

    I don’t know that any Indian empires were “natural”, but the subcontinent is clearly a single civilization and has been recognized as such by its inhabitants for a very long time. Just as there have been many Indian empires, there have been many Persian empires.

    The Indian subcontinent has formidable natural geographic boundaries which served to consolidate their cultural space. The term dharma, encompassing all Indian religions, has been in use for thousands of years.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Only it doesn't mean "religion", it means something like "righteousness". Which is not to deny the cultural continuum which largely corresponds to things like the use of Sanskrit as the highest-register language, like Latin in Europe or Arabic in the ME.

    (Dharma in Pali is "dhamma", which shows up a lot in Buddhist contexts.)

  270. @Thorfinnsson
    China might border India, but contacts between India and China are quite modest. The Himalayas are a formidable barrier, and the Chinese side of the border is sparsely populated and has not always been part of China or even Chinese civilization.

    Both countries have more contact with the West than they do each other.

    I don't know that any Indian empires were "natural", but the subcontinent is clearly a single civilization and has been recognized as such by its inhabitants for a very long time. Just as there have been many Indian empires, there have been many Persian empires.

    The Indian subcontinent has formidable natural geographic boundaries which served to consolidate their cultural space. The term dharma, encompassing all Indian religions, has been in use for thousands of years.

    Only it doesn’t mean “religion”, it means something like “righteousness”. Which is not to deny the cultural continuum which largely corresponds to things like the use of Sanskrit as the highest-register language, like Latin in Europe or Arabic in the ME.

    (Dharma in Pali is “dhamma”, which shows up a lot in Buddhist contexts.)

  271. @The Anti-Gnostic
    I asked a Georgian what the name of his country was in the Georgian tongue. He got confused, then said, in English, "the Land." I could never make it clear to him what I was asking about.

    So, Sakartvelo, "land of Kartvelians." You learn something new every day.

    Eh, Georgia sounds more ‘European’. Imagine getting in ‘Europe’ and NATO with an unpronounceable name for Anglos like Sakartvelo.

    • Replies: @Gerard2

    Eh, Georgia sounds more ‘European’. Imagine getting in ‘Europe’ and NATO with an unpronounceable name for Anglos like Sakartvelo
     
    It's not your fault....but who cares? As a state it's a joke in which the presidential elections are held between a French lady and a Russian citizen ( I seem to be the only person bemused that Romania has a german as President), a huge proportion of their people work and live in Russia, a huge proportion of their economy relies on Russian tourists and Russian gas....and they are "great" at exporting their criminals to Russia.

    Now don't get me wrong....unlike Ukraine, Gruzians are an actual country and culture and people....no dispute.......but all of that is still intrinsically connected to Russia on all levels....and their state apparatus are a disgrace
  272. @Jaakko Raipala

    A very suggestive site, worth a serious consideration:

    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uiralamenu.html
     
    Ehh. Just pointing out, in case, that this Andres Pääbo guy and his fansites are not to be confused with Svante Pääbo, prominent geneticist whose name will pop up a lot if you cite sources on northern European DNA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_P%C3%A4%C3%A4bo

    The "Uirala" stuff by Andres Pääbo is the typical "ancient Estonians ruled the world but this knowledge has been suppressed by occupiers" stuff that you find any any aggrieved nationality.

    You sound like a ‘self-hating’ Estonian?, Finn?

  273. @Seraphim
    Eh, Georgia sounds more 'European'. Imagine getting in 'Europe' and NATO with an unpronounceable name for Anglos like Sakartvelo.

    Eh, Georgia sounds more ‘European’. Imagine getting in ‘Europe’ and NATO with an unpronounceable name for Anglos like Sakartvelo

    It’s not your fault….but who cares? As a state it’s a joke in which the presidential elections are held between a French lady and a Russian citizen ( I seem to be the only person bemused that Romania has a german as President), a huge proportion of their people work and live in Russia, a huge proportion of their economy relies on Russian tourists and Russian gas….and they are “great” at exporting their criminals to Russia.

    Now don’t get me wrong….unlike Ukraine, Gruzians are an actual country and culture and people….no dispute…….but all of that is still intrinsically connected to Russia on all levels….and their state apparatus are a disgrace

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Arguably, Ukraine has more cultural achievements than Georgia, at least as far as literature is concerned, although it does not have its own unique alphabet. Georgian “leaders” (all foreigners, there you are right) make all sorts of silly noises, but they made travel for Russians visa-free, even though Georgia does not have diplomatic relations with Russia since 2008. That’s the first and only example in human history.
    , @Seraphim
    The 'German' President of Romania is a 'Sas'. They are Romanian citizens for exactly 100 years and have the same political rights as all Romanians.
    As an aside, Romanians know that Georgian/Gruzin/Iverians are an actual country and culture, that they appreciate. One of the beloved 'Romanian' saints and Neo-Martyr was Antim Ivireanul (ანთიმოზ ივერიელი)/Antimoz Iverieli, Metropolitan of Ungrovlahia (1708-1716), an active promoter of Romanian language and culture.
    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in... Russian shops. In the old times they used to love the 'gruzin' films (as well as the 'gruzinski tchai', imported from Russia, naturally).
  274. @Gerard2

    Eh, Georgia sounds more ‘European’. Imagine getting in ‘Europe’ and NATO with an unpronounceable name for Anglos like Sakartvelo
     
    It's not your fault....but who cares? As a state it's a joke in which the presidential elections are held between a French lady and a Russian citizen ( I seem to be the only person bemused that Romania has a german as President), a huge proportion of their people work and live in Russia, a huge proportion of their economy relies on Russian tourists and Russian gas....and they are "great" at exporting their criminals to Russia.

    Now don't get me wrong....unlike Ukraine, Gruzians are an actual country and culture and people....no dispute.......but all of that is still intrinsically connected to Russia on all levels....and their state apparatus are a disgrace

    Arguably, Ukraine has more cultural achievements than Georgia, at least as far as literature is concerned, although it does not have its own unique alphabet. Georgian “leaders” (all foreigners, there you are right) make all sorts of silly noises, but they made travel for Russians visa-free, even though Georgia does not have diplomatic relations with Russia since 2008. That’s the first and only example in human history.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...they made travel for Russians visa-free, even though Georgia does not have diplomatic relations with Russia since 2008. That’s the first and only example in human history.
     
    The only other case I can think off is Cuba with US: no visas needed, but a slightly different dynamic.
  275. @Gerard2

    Eh, Georgia sounds more ‘European’. Imagine getting in ‘Europe’ and NATO with an unpronounceable name for Anglos like Sakartvelo
     
    It's not your fault....but who cares? As a state it's a joke in which the presidential elections are held between a French lady and a Russian citizen ( I seem to be the only person bemused that Romania has a german as President), a huge proportion of their people work and live in Russia, a huge proportion of their economy relies on Russian tourists and Russian gas....and they are "great" at exporting their criminals to Russia.

    Now don't get me wrong....unlike Ukraine, Gruzians are an actual country and culture and people....no dispute.......but all of that is still intrinsically connected to Russia on all levels....and their state apparatus are a disgrace

    The ‘German’ President of Romania is a ‘Sas’. They are Romanian citizens for exactly 100 years and have the same political rights as all Romanians.
    As an aside, Romanians know that Georgian/Gruzin/Iverians are an actual country and culture, that they appreciate. One of the beloved ‘Romanian’ saints and Neo-Martyr was Antim Ivireanul (ანთიმოზ ივერიელი)/Antimoz Iverieli, Metropolitan of Ungrovlahia (1708-1716), an active promoter of Romanian language and culture.
    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in… Russian shops. In the old times they used to love the ‘gruzin’ films (as well as the ‘gruzinski tchai’, imported from Russia, naturally).

    • Replies: @Dacian Soros
    'Sas' is not an English word. Iohannis is a Saxon. Saxons are the Protestant variants of German pest.

    Catholic Swabians are equally common (or rather sparse, these day). The former royal family was Swabian.

    A smaller populations of Germs, this time migrating from Russia, became Romanian citizens when we acquired Dobruja. Dobruja changed hands a few times, so it's unclear to me whether these interlopers were even Christians.

    Today, the German infection is, in a sense, worse than under von Mackensen or Hauffe. Everywhere you look there's a flag of EUSSR, but Romania is not in Schengen. The criterion for accession to the common customs area was a secure the border. So, for twelve years, we paid billions to EADS (French-German) for electronic border protection. Twelve years later, the border is still good enough for Manfred Weber. Also today, I read on Deutsche Welle that "The hideous face of communism is alive and well in Romania". WTF, we gave you billions, how much more do you want?

    Btw, the most common ancestry in US is German. At least Brits come with the guns, and the French usually leave. But Germans are white Gyppos.
    , @Gerard2

    The ‘German’ President of Romania is a ‘Sas’. They are Romanian citizens for exactly 100 years and have the same political rights as all Romanians.
    As an aside, Romanians know that Georgian/Gruzin/Iverians are an actual country and culture, that they appreciate. One of the beloved ‘Romanian’ saints and Neo-Martyr was Antim Ivireanul (ანთიმოზ ივერიელი)/Antimoz Iverieli, Metropolitan of Ungrovlahia (1708-1716), an active promoter of Romanian language and culture.
    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in… Russian shops. In the old times they used to love the ‘gruzin’ films (as well as the ‘gruzinski tchai’, imported from Russia, naturally).
     
    Thanks for that....very interesting. I knew about exactly 0% of those things in your post ,before I read it
    , @Spisarevski

    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in… Russian shops.
     
    Let me guess, "Berezka"? :) We have the same chain here too. I actually bought a bottle of Saperavi Kvevri from there once and wasn't too impressed, and one of these days I'll try the Moldovan and the Armenian brandy they offer too, if I can force myself to buy something different than Courvoisier once for a change.
    Personally my favorite thing about Georgia is their alphabet, aesthetic as fuck.
  276. @Anon
    The Bombay/Mumbai thing was pretty stupid. But it's a self-esteem thing. I can't really judge the others except Sri Lanka, which probably ought to just be "Lanka". But the main UK island calls itself "Great Britain", so whatever.

    But the main UK island calls itself “Great Britain”, so whatever.

    This is because Brittany is ‘Little Britain’.

    In French Great Britain is Grande Bretagne while Brittany is Bretagne. In German Great Britain is Großbritannien while Brittany used to be Kleinbritannien.

    Just how like Małopolska and Wielkopolska are territorial designations.

    This is not like what East Asians used to do.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Furthermore, the Little and Great designations relate to distance from Rome/Byzantium. Little Russia, Great Russia, same for Poland as observed. Asia Minor is a well-known case.
  277. @Epigon
    It is not very rewarding to test Y-DNA of long deceased people to find relation to modern populations. A lot has happened in both northern Russia and Sweden since 8th-9th century.

    Besides, even if the modern Swedes in that location and Rurikids share a male ancestor, it doesn't prove a Sweden-descended/Norman military elite subjugated Slavic and Finnic tribes of Rus'.

    It is not very rewarding to test Y-DNA of long deceased people to find relation to modern populations. A lot has happened in both northern Russia and Sweden since 8th-9th century.

    Modern Rurikids match DNA of their ancestors, and match those of people from the Roslagen region of Sweden.

    Besides, even if the modern Swedes in that location and Rurikids share a male ancestor, it doesn’t prove a Sweden-descended/Norman military elite subjugated Slavic and Finnic tribes of Rus’.

    It’s just another piece of the puzzle. The Rurikids kept hiring Scandinavian tutors for their kids, kept bringing back wives from Scandinavia, Vladimir seized the throne with Norse warriors he recruited while living in Norway, etc. My own paternal ancestors were Varangians by family legend, and DNA suggests they were from Norway.

  278. @AnonFromTN
    Arguably, Ukraine has more cultural achievements than Georgia, at least as far as literature is concerned, although it does not have its own unique alphabet. Georgian “leaders” (all foreigners, there you are right) make all sorts of silly noises, but they made travel for Russians visa-free, even though Georgia does not have diplomatic relations with Russia since 2008. That’s the first and only example in human history.

    …they made travel for Russians visa-free, even though Georgia does not have diplomatic relations with Russia since 2008. That’s the first and only example in human history.

    The only other case I can think off is Cuba with US: no visas needed, but a slightly different dynamic.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    You are right. I don’t know much about travel to Cuba with the US passport. I know that Americans usually travel there through Mexico or some other Latin American country, all of which have diplomatic relations with Cuba and direct flights to Havana.

    I also know that real cigar connoisseurs only smoke Havana cigars, which are illegal in the US. So, most tobacco places in sane countries catering to the American tourists have fake Costa-Rica labels for them.
  279. @Beckow

    the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe
     
    NO!!! that's the worst way to think of India. India is the world's sewer: ancient, over-populated beyond any reasonable measure, unhealthy, dysfunctional, it fatally undermines anything it touches.

    In the same way as the Sub-Saharans undermine physical spaces in Europe, the Indians undermine the civilisational superstructure of Europe. Look at what happened to UK, it has collapsed in one generation and is overrun with different flavours of South Asian decline. It cannot be fixed once the Indian-Pakistani rot sets in: there are too many of them, they are relentless, and they function as parasites on more prosperous societies.

    Comparing India to Europe is an error, their civilised era was eons ago. Now they are a post-civilisation, something that will happen to Europe if it continues in its self-destructive absurd marriage to the Third World. Don't compare, just have some boundaries.

    You completely missed the point of the comparison.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...You completely missed the point of the comparison
     
    Intentionally. What I said about India cannot be said often enough...

    (Or am I again in your feverish mind 'lying'?)
    , @Thulean Friend
    Maybe he and DFH are twins.
  280. They’re obsessed – obsessed! – over naming conventions for their countries and cities in foreign languages.

    And it works, at least among the English-speaking. Even though neither Russian nor Ukrainian has articles at all. In other words, they don’t know what they’re talking about.

    I think it’s dumb that Russians say Tshicago, when they have the proper initial consonant in their own language. (Mexicans don’t, so they have an excuse.) But there’s no urge to take them to task on it. Is anything important said about Chicago in Russian?

    Do Argentines get worked up when someone plays “Tangerine” on the radio? (“…across the Argentine”)

    Then there’s O Brasil and La France

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Russians say Tshicago, when they have the proper initial consonant in their own language
     
    Hungarians, too, and we also have the proper initial consonant in our own language. It’s just custom. It also sounds idiotic when someone wants to pronounce it too close to the English pronunciation while speaking Hungarian, it smacks of snobbery.
  281. @Thorfinnsson
    I find that the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe.

    India is a civilization rather than a nation, and like Europe it has briefly been mostly united a few sporadic times in its history.

    Mauryan Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Maurya_Empire%2C_c.250_BCE_2.png

    Moghul Empire

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Mughal1700.png

    Maratha Confederacy

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/India1760_1905.jpg

    British Raj

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/British_Indian_Empire_1909_Imperial_Gazetteer_of_India.jpg

    Republic of India

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/India_topo_big.jpg

    Compare to Europe with the Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Hapsburg Empire (Charles V), Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.

    …Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.

    Not the most reassuring examples!

  282. @Beckow

    ...they made travel for Russians visa-free, even though Georgia does not have diplomatic relations with Russia since 2008. That’s the first and only example in human history.
     
    The only other case I can think off is Cuba with US: no visas needed, but a slightly different dynamic.

    You are right. I don’t know much about travel to Cuba with the US passport. I know that Americans usually travel there through Mexico or some other Latin American country, all of which have diplomatic relations with Cuba and direct flights to Havana.

    I also know that real cigar connoisseurs only smoke Havana cigars, which are illegal in the US. So, most tobacco places in sane countries catering to the American tourists have fake Costa-Rica labels for them.

  283. Is Singapore a real country? It is very famous and economically successful. Doesn’t have any oil. Only natural resource is its location and anchorage.

    On the other hand, could it exist without China anymore than HK or Macau? It is a massive population sink. Needs to be sustained by Chinese immigration.

    And does it have a culture? I’ve known Singaporeans who virtue signal about their diversity, believing they are a morally superior country to the US because they don’t have any trouble with poor blacks. Somehow the Chinese have cleverly tricked them into being satisfied under their authoritarian rule. But at what price? The price of having no culture. and not much in the way of natural rights.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Singapore is an oversized shopping mall more than a country. In many places you don’t have an exit from the metro station except via a shopping mall. The only bright spot is their Botanical Gardens, where you can see all sorts of beautiful orchids without being offered a shopping experience.

    However, it solved the issue of peaceful coexistence of different people admirably. Every sign everywhere is in four languages: English, Chinese, Malay, and Tamil, so nobody feels estranged. Another admirable thing is that not only they don’t require a visa from anyone, they don’t even charge a fee in lieu of visa, like Turkey.

    Can’t say anything abut their political rights, I was there as a tourist on my way to Malaysia.

    , @sean42
    Let us have a debate here, are authoritarian regimes basically the only way that a country can avoid getting pozzed? And in order to continue to avoid getting sucked up on cultural degeneracy it needs to maintain an autocracy?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Singapore is definitely not a real country, though it's an interesting experiment.

    They're succumbing to the poz now as it is. The current ruler is not up to the standard of his father.

    And in any case Singapore's government is overrated. The Central Provident Fund (worse run than Malaysia's equivalent if you can believe it) and Temasek are both corrupt jokes, and the government respects its subjects so little that they raise the price of electricity and blame it on the oil price (Singapore uses LNG for generation, not oil).

    Also worth asking how much of Singapore's success owes to the same thing Hong Kong owed its success to (British legacy, Chinese population) rather than enlightened despotism.

  284. @songbird
    Is Singapore a real country? It is very famous and economically successful. Doesn't have any oil. Only natural resource is its location and anchorage.

    On the other hand, could it exist without China anymore than HK or Macau? It is a massive population sink. Needs to be sustained by Chinese immigration.

    And does it have a culture? I've known Singaporeans who virtue signal about their diversity, believing they are a morally superior country to the US because they don't have any trouble with poor blacks. Somehow the Chinese have cleverly tricked them into being satisfied under their authoritarian rule. But at what price? The price of having no culture. and not much in the way of natural rights.

    Singapore is an oversized shopping mall more than a country. In many places you don’t have an exit from the metro station except via a shopping mall. The only bright spot is their Botanical Gardens, where you can see all sorts of beautiful orchids without being offered a shopping experience.

    However, it solved the issue of peaceful coexistence of different people admirably. Every sign everywhere is in four languages: English, Chinese, Malay, and Tamil, so nobody feels estranged. Another admirable thing is that not only they don’t require a visa from anyone, they don’t even charge a fee in lieu of visa, like Turkey.

    Can’t say anything abut their political rights, I was there as a tourist on my way to Malaysia.

  285. @songbird
    Is Singapore a real country? It is very famous and economically successful. Doesn't have any oil. Only natural resource is its location and anchorage.

    On the other hand, could it exist without China anymore than HK or Macau? It is a massive population sink. Needs to be sustained by Chinese immigration.

    And does it have a culture? I've known Singaporeans who virtue signal about their diversity, believing they are a morally superior country to the US because they don't have any trouble with poor blacks. Somehow the Chinese have cleverly tricked them into being satisfied under their authoritarian rule. But at what price? The price of having no culture. and not much in the way of natural rights.

    Let us have a debate here, are authoritarian regimes basically the only way that a country can avoid getting pozzed? And in order to continue to avoid getting sucked up on cultural degeneracy it needs to maintain an autocracy?

    • Replies: @songbird
    For me, the answer involves more questions.

    What is the starting point? Uninhabited island or planet, where you chose the colonists? Or existing country? How "enriched?". Can you change a form or government without revolution? ( I suspect the answer is no)

    Is it possible to make a constitution which is functional for a certain people? With checks and balances against diversity? A primary acknowledgement of the differences between people and the perils of equating everyone? Is a real democracy possible - for a people? Relying on technology for some of its checks? (Maybe, but with doubt. Irish constitution denotes it as a Christian country - does not prevent Muslim and Hindu colonists)

    Is there a way to build a stable TFR constitutionally? I suspect that one secret to controlling Poz would be exiling the crazies to a population sink, instead of allowing them to import high TFR poz-inducing groups. maybe, you'd need to draft the pols too. I think you'd have to try to build merit into the system. Minimize the influence of ivory towers by not allowing colleges to grow too much.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Extreme localism/subsidiarity may be another way, as the costs of catering to untermenschen more greatly strain local resources.

    But it doesn't look good. In any system where legitimacy is conferred by elections, there's an incentive baked into the cake to expand the franchise as widely as possible...including beyond the country's boundaries. And the population of people who should not vote mostly always exceeds the population that should.
    , @dfordoom

    Let us have a debate here, are authoritarian regimes basically the only way that a country can avoid getting pozzed? And in order to continue to avoid getting sucked up on cultural degeneracy it needs to maintain an autocracy?
     
    I don't see how you can keep out the Poz except by force. If you leave the door open just a tiny crack the Poz will start seeping in. The door has to be locked and bolted and hermetically sealed. You have to restrict freedoms to some extent. You have to be able to say that a particular movie is disgusting filth so therefore it's going to be banned. You have to be able to say that a particular recording artist is a purveyor of filth so their music is not going to be available in your country. You have to be able to say that things like Gay Pride parades promote degeneracy so therefore they're not gonna happen.

    Which means you have to exert a large measure of control over the internet content that can be accessed.

    Given the current status of the U.S. as Poz Central that would meaning banning at least 95% of American popular culture.

    I can't imagine a non-authoritarian government being able to do any of that.
  286. @Seraphim
    The 'German' President of Romania is a 'Sas'. They are Romanian citizens for exactly 100 years and have the same political rights as all Romanians.
    As an aside, Romanians know that Georgian/Gruzin/Iverians are an actual country and culture, that they appreciate. One of the beloved 'Romanian' saints and Neo-Martyr was Antim Ivireanul (ანთიმოზ ივერიელი)/Antimoz Iverieli, Metropolitan of Ungrovlahia (1708-1716), an active promoter of Romanian language and culture.
    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in... Russian shops. In the old times they used to love the 'gruzin' films (as well as the 'gruzinski tchai', imported from Russia, naturally).

    ‘Sas’ is not an English word. Iohannis is a Saxon. Saxons are the Protestant variants of German pest.

    Catholic Swabians are equally common (or rather sparse, these day). The former royal family was Swabian.

    A smaller populations of Germs, this time migrating from Russia, became Romanian citizens when we acquired Dobruja. Dobruja changed hands a few times, so it’s unclear to me whether these interlopers were even Christians.

    Today, the German infection is, in a sense, worse than under von Mackensen or Hauffe. Everywhere you look there’s a flag of EUSSR, but Romania is not in Schengen. The criterion for accession to the common customs area was a secure the border. So, for twelve years, we paid billions to EADS (French-German) for electronic border protection. Twelve years later, the border is still good enough for Manfred Weber. Also today, I read on Deutsche Welle that “The hideous face of communism is alive and well in Romania”. WTF, we gave you billions, how much more do you want?

    Btw, the most common ancestry in US is German. At least Brits come with the guns, and the French usually leave. But Germans are white Gyppos.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    No, it's not an English word, that's why I put it in quotation marks. It is, as you know, the Romanian word for the 'German' population of Transylvania.
    He is from Sibiu, where the first 'hospites' brought by the Hungarian kings, were 'flandrenses', flemish, 'floandări'.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Sadly, there's no way that the most common ancestry in the USA is still German. It would likely be Mexican.

    German may still be the most common WHITE EUROPEAN ancestry in the US.
  287. @sean42
    Let us have a debate here, are authoritarian regimes basically the only way that a country can avoid getting pozzed? And in order to continue to avoid getting sucked up on cultural degeneracy it needs to maintain an autocracy?

    For me, the answer involves more questions.

    What is the starting point? Uninhabited island or planet, where you chose the colonists? Or existing country? How “enriched?”. Can you change a form or government without revolution? ( I suspect the answer is no)

    Is it possible to make a constitution which is functional for a certain people? With checks and balances against diversity? A primary acknowledgement of the differences between people and the perils of equating everyone? Is a real democracy possible – for a people? Relying on technology for some of its checks? (Maybe, but with doubt. Irish constitution denotes it as a Christian country – does not prevent Muslim and Hindu colonists)

    Is there a way to build a stable TFR constitutionally? I suspect that one secret to controlling Poz would be exiling the crazies to a population sink, instead of allowing them to import high TFR poz-inducing groups. maybe, you’d need to draft the pols too. I think you’d have to try to build merit into the system. Minimize the influence of ivory towers by not allowing colleges to grow too much.

    • Replies: @sean42
    I was talking about Spain, Franco was able to run a tight ship as long as he was still around, but things started to fall apart in his last years, and fell apart completely when he died after just a few years, which makes me extremely pessimistic that you can keep out moral decadence while avoiding an autocracy of some sort, maybe we need a reincarnation of Philip II, and keep him in the God Emperor's throne to keep him alive forever?
    , @dfordoom

    Minimize the influence of ivory towers by not allowing colleges to grow too much.
     
    Close most of them down. How many arts graduates do you actually need? A tiny handful compared to the vast numbers being churned out at the moment.
  288. @Jaakko Raipala

    A very suggestive site, worth a serious consideration:

    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uiralamenu.html
     
    Ehh. Just pointing out, in case, that this Andres Pääbo guy and his fansites are not to be confused with Svante Pääbo, prominent geneticist whose name will pop up a lot if you cite sources on northern European DNA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_P%C3%A4%C3%A4bo

    The "Uirala" stuff by Andres Pääbo is the typical "ancient Estonians ruled the world but this knowledge has been suppressed by occupiers" stuff that you find any any aggrieved nationality.

    “ancient Estonians ruled the world but this knowledge has been suppressed by occupiers”

    Do such idiocies exist in Estonia? I thought it was unique to Hungary.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    Oh no, Finland and Estonia have a very similar mini-industry of people who try to prove that the Finno-Ugric theory is a hoax promoted by Swedes and/or Russians.

    Most people will easily believe that Finno-Ugric languages are a thing (we can recognize some words of Mari, Mordvin etc) but the sticking point is the idea that the original Finno-Ugric homeland is on the Volga river which is *in Russia*. It does not help to point out that this would have been long before Russia existed. A lot of Estonians and Finns will just instinctively assume that it's all a plot to turn us into Russians and their brain shuts down.

    Also, politics of the interwar era over here had a big culture war between Finns and Swedes over who gets to be the favorite of Germany and the Swedes considered the eastern origins of Finns one of their big propaganda weapons. There definitely was a Swedish plot to ruin the racial reputation of Finns in Nazi era Germany and there's a set of Finns who think it's all still secretly going on.

    So there's a market for "dissident intellectuals" who propose alternatives to the Volga homeland that aren't in Russia and if their theories don't get support in academia they can just explain it as a conspiracy of Swedish Nazis or Russian agents since a whole lot of people already believe in scheming Swedish Nazis and Russian agents.

    Of course these dissidents tend to overshoot their goals and the alternative theories frequently turn into ancient Estonians discovering America and the like. The most common ones insist that we are the pre-Indo-European Western Europeans and that there are FU languages on the Volga only because ancient Finns migrated towards the east. The less common ones are the ones who try to connect us to the Far East, usually to the Mongols or the Japanese since they once kicked Russian ass. We had a few people selling the Sumerian stuff, too, but they're dead now.
  289. @songbird
    For me, the answer involves more questions.

    What is the starting point? Uninhabited island or planet, where you chose the colonists? Or existing country? How "enriched?". Can you change a form or government without revolution? ( I suspect the answer is no)

    Is it possible to make a constitution which is functional for a certain people? With checks and balances against diversity? A primary acknowledgement of the differences between people and the perils of equating everyone? Is a real democracy possible - for a people? Relying on technology for some of its checks? (Maybe, but with doubt. Irish constitution denotes it as a Christian country - does not prevent Muslim and Hindu colonists)

    Is there a way to build a stable TFR constitutionally? I suspect that one secret to controlling Poz would be exiling the crazies to a population sink, instead of allowing them to import high TFR poz-inducing groups. maybe, you'd need to draft the pols too. I think you'd have to try to build merit into the system. Minimize the influence of ivory towers by not allowing colleges to grow too much.

    I was talking about Spain, Franco was able to run a tight ship as long as he was still around, but things started to fall apart in his last years, and fell apart completely when he died after just a few years, which makes me extremely pessimistic that you can keep out moral decadence while avoiding an autocracy of some sort, maybe we need a reincarnation of Philip II, and keep him in the God Emperor’s throne to keep him alive forever?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The issue is that the richest (big) country in the world is the epicenter of the Poz. This country also has a talent for entertainment, making it even cooler than wealth alone could explain. It’s going to pull everything in its orbit, because people are natural cargo cultists and assume that everything they can see in a rich and cool country is worth emulating. It either needs to get its shit together and destroy the Poz from within, or get destroyed itself, or else the Poz will keep running strong.
    , @songbird
    I've heard it wasn't long before they had softcore porn on TV. The change was so extreme people considered it an overreaction. Something that would not have happened without Franco.

    The surviving royals of Europe seem such a sorry, pozzed lot. I don't have a lot of faith in monarchy - maybe that only happens in a constitutional system and Queen Elizabeth would be pushing people out of helicopters were it otherwise - I don't know. But one problem is that you have regression towards the mean in any lineal system of succesion. I like to kick around the idea that a king could be bred to be both smart and to have solidarity with his people - to be conservative. But it would have to be a continued program of breeding - at least on the level of selecting a mate, if not greater.
  290. @Reg Cæsar

    They’re obsessed – obsessed! – over naming conventions for their countries and cities in foreign languages.
     
    And it works, at least among the English-speaking. Even though neither Russian nor Ukrainian has articles at all. In other words, they don't know what they're talking about.


    I think it's dumb that Russians say Tshicago, when they have the proper initial consonant in their own language. (Mexicans don't, so they have an excuse.) But there's no urge to take them to task on it. Is anything important said about Chicago in Russian?

    Do Argentines get worked up when someone plays "Tangerine" on the radio? ("...across the Argentine")

    Then there's O Brasil and La France...

    Russians say Tshicago, when they have the proper initial consonant in their own language

    Hungarians, too, and we also have the proper initial consonant in our own language. It’s just custom. It also sounds idiotic when someone wants to pronounce it too close to the English pronunciation while speaking Hungarian, it smacks of snobbery.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Hungarians, too, and we also have the proper initial consonant in our own language. It’s just custom. It also sounds idiotic when someone wants to pronounce it too close to the English pronunciation while speaking Hungarian, it smacks of snobbery.
     
    But don't Hungarians always put a strong stress on the first syllable, like their distant Finnish cousins, and Czech and Slovak neighbors? That would sound doubly weird.
  291. @sean42
    I was talking about Spain, Franco was able to run a tight ship as long as he was still around, but things started to fall apart in his last years, and fell apart completely when he died after just a few years, which makes me extremely pessimistic that you can keep out moral decadence while avoiding an autocracy of some sort, maybe we need a reincarnation of Philip II, and keep him in the God Emperor's throne to keep him alive forever?

    The issue is that the richest (big) country in the world is the epicenter of the Poz. This country also has a talent for entertainment, making it even cooler than wealth alone could explain. It’s going to pull everything in its orbit, because people are natural cargo cultists and assume that everything they can see in a rich and cool country is worth emulating. It either needs to get its shit together and destroy the Poz from within, or get destroyed itself, or else the Poz will keep running strong.

    • Replies: @sean42
    The biggest problem is the the US is a Christian country, and unlike Judaism or Islam, there really is not much Biblical basis for the establishment of a theocracy, Habsburg Spain notwithstanding. I know a thoecratic or ceasaropapic lite US would have its own issues, but are still much better than the debased culture that you see now.
  292. @Colin Wright
    Well, to begin with, I'll note that nations are something that exist in people's heads. No people, no nations. Conversely, if a lot of people think the Ukraine is a real nation, it becomes a real nation. Here I'm reminded of the Israel-Palestine dispute. Some Zionists will argue that there never was a Palestinian people. That may or may not be true; but it's not terribly relevant. There is a Palestinian people now; the Zionists created them with their actions.

    That said, it's odd that this piece led off with Georgia as an example of a 'fake and gay' nation. Georgia was an independent kingdom -- and one with a long history -- as recently as the eighteenth century. It's very much a real nation.

    Poland indubitably is as well. Certainly Russia is. Armenia would be. Lithuania, having a long and very distinct existence in the Middle Ages and there very definitely being Lithuanians to boot, seems to me to qualify. Latvia, Estonia, the Ukraine, Finland, and the Czechs all seem like reasonable candidates for nationhood to me. There was little independent political existence before the twentieth century, but each region has a unique history and a people who at least feel themselves to be unique.

    'Belarus,' on the other hand, is pretty 'gay.' That never was a state, and I'm not aware of any abortive nationalist gropings along the lines of those that the Ukraine, say, displayed in both World Wars. Are there 'Belarussians'? Would they riot and take to the woods and form armed bands if Russia just annexed the state outright?

    Now, for fun, we can consider the legitimacy of states that most definitely very much were but thanks to the miracle of modern population replacement now very much aren't: Prussia, the Crimean Khanate. Neither was even a little 'gay' but both are most certainly gone.

    Conversely, we have exciting modern frissons that rest on either fantasy or nothing at all. Modern Greece incorporates a great deal of continental hinterland that was all kinds of things but certainly not anyone related to the ancient Greeks; the 'Greeks' were actually more of a maritime people, spread around seacoasts all around the Aegean and even further afield but rarely extending themselves very far inland. Indeed, in World War Two Greek guerillas often found themselves in the embarassing position of losing out to Tito's Partisans in northern Greece because the peasantry spoke Slavic dialects rather than Greek. No doubt that's been rectified, but the fact remains; modern Greece is largely an invention; most Greeks think of themselves as Greeks because they've been told they're Greeks. The ancient Greeks are long gone, others have indeed moved or been moved into their place, and the lands they lived in don't even match up with modern Greece particularly well in the first place. An early martyr appropriated to the cause of Greek independence apparently wasn't even aware of that identity; as the Ottomans led him to be executed he cried out 'a Romios I was born and a Romios I will die.'.

    Ahem. No, no. Greek. You're Greek. That clear?

    Then there's 'Rumania.' There were various historical states and regions that were incorporated at one time or another into the modern Rumanian state: Wallachia, Bessarabia, Moldovia, Transsylvania, Dobrudja are all names I'm familiar with. But as far as I know, there was no 'Rumania' or even a 'Romania' until the retreat of the Ottoman Empire in the middle of the nineteenth century. Rumanians themselves are a reality, but their state is of decidedly recent -- and hence 'gay' -- provenance. It's difficult to see why Romania should be regarded as authentic if the Ukraine isn't. Perhaps because Russia never absorbed it outright?

    So we've got all sorts of degrees and conditions of national reality. However, the states that have been singled out in this article as artificial don't seem to me to be particularly egregious offenders in this respect. Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don't strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

    The Greeks are descendants of the Ancient Hellenes. It’s just a fact. There could be Nordicist fantasies about the ancient Hellenes being Nordics, but recent genetic studies have confirmed that the Greeks are the closest present population to them.

    Regarding Macedonians, the ancient ones were closely related to the Hellenes, but the present ones are more closely related to the other ancient Balkan populations, which were relatively distinct from Greeks.

    By the way, is Hungarian the only language where the ancient and present Macedonians have different names? “Makedón” for the ancient ones and “macedón” (the c pronounced as ts) for the present ones.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    The so called Makedonski have no relation whatsoever with the ancient Macedonians. The Kingdom of Macedonia's original heartland was the Macedonian plain and the Saronic gulf. Both areas were still majority Greek by the 20th century. "Macedonia" in Ottoman times didn't designate historic Macedonia but the Macedonian Sanjak. The Macedonian Sanjak en-globed many inland regions that weren't part of historic Macedonia and were populated by southern Slavs. The so called makedonski claim that they are entitled to all of Greek Macedonia due to the fact that the region that the ottomans called Macedonia had a Slavic plurality. The Vardar region which comprises modern day FYROM's territory was part of Paeonia. The Paeonians were a non Greek people (probably Thracian )that were enemies of Macedonia and were eventually conquered by Philip II. The genetic ancestry of modern day Slavic "Macedonians" is thus Slavic and Balkanoid but probably devoid of greek admixture due to the fact that Greeks never inhabited the region.
    , @German_reader

    By the way, is Hungarian the only language where the ancient and present Macedonians have different names?
     
    In German it's distinguished as well:
    Ancient Macedon (and the present-day Greek territory) is Makedonien.
    The ex-Yugoslav republic is Mazedonien.
    Seems quite similar to the Hungarian usage.
  293. @reiner Tor
    The issue is that the richest (big) country in the world is the epicenter of the Poz. This country also has a talent for entertainment, making it even cooler than wealth alone could explain. It’s going to pull everything in its orbit, because people are natural cargo cultists and assume that everything they can see in a rich and cool country is worth emulating. It either needs to get its shit together and destroy the Poz from within, or get destroyed itself, or else the Poz will keep running strong.

    The biggest problem is the the US is a Christian country, and unlike Judaism or Islam, there really is not much Biblical basis for the establishment of a theocracy, Habsburg Spain notwithstanding. I know a thoecratic or ceasaropapic lite US would have its own issues, but are still much better than the debased culture that you see now.

  294. @Dacian Soros
    'Sas' is not an English word. Iohannis is a Saxon. Saxons are the Protestant variants of German pest.

    Catholic Swabians are equally common (or rather sparse, these day). The former royal family was Swabian.

    A smaller populations of Germs, this time migrating from Russia, became Romanian citizens when we acquired Dobruja. Dobruja changed hands a few times, so it's unclear to me whether these interlopers were even Christians.

    Today, the German infection is, in a sense, worse than under von Mackensen or Hauffe. Everywhere you look there's a flag of EUSSR, but Romania is not in Schengen. The criterion for accession to the common customs area was a secure the border. So, for twelve years, we paid billions to EADS (French-German) for electronic border protection. Twelve years later, the border is still good enough for Manfred Weber. Also today, I read on Deutsche Welle that "The hideous face of communism is alive and well in Romania". WTF, we gave you billions, how much more do you want?

    Btw, the most common ancestry in US is German. At least Brits come with the guns, and the French usually leave. But Germans are white Gyppos.

    No, it’s not an English word, that’s why I put it in quotation marks. It is, as you know, the Romanian word for the ‘German’ population of Transylvania.
    He is from Sibiu, where the first ‘hospites’ brought by the Hungarian kings, were ‘flandrenses’, flemish, ‘floandări’.

  295. @Thulean Friend

    The word Hindu comes from old Persian pronunciation if Sindhu(Indus) to refer to people on the other side of the Indus river the then border between the Achmaneid Persian empire and Indian states.
    It predates Islam by over a millennia.
     
    Right, but it is still foreign, Islamic influence or not. Hindustan is also a common word used in Hindi to describe India, which also comes from persians IIRC.

    The formal name of Hinduism is Sanatan Dharma BTW.
     

    I've heard about this before, though I would take issue calling it 'formal'. Indigenous is probably a better term.

    I am all for naming cities to Hindu names if cities existed prior to their conquest so Ahmadabad should become Karnavati ,Allahabad should become Prayag
     
    Even if someone doesn't care about the poetic justice of it all, one should still support it on the basis of aethestics. Karnavati sounds a lot better. I also prefer Gurugram to Gurgaeon. Kolkata definitely sounds better than Calcutta, which has a clownish tinge to it. The only oldschool names I'd prefer would probably be Bangalore over Bengaluru. Bombay does sound cooler than Mumbai. But overall, most new names are net improvements.

    There is a campaign to Sanskritize Hindi by purging it of Persian,Turkic and Arab words.
     
    That's good, but as a non-Hindi speaker who listen to Indian officials and even Indian media from time to time, what strikes you is the extent to which people pepper their lingo with English words inserted, this is especially the case in more formal settings where discussions can become technocratic.

    Sanskrit is also widely taught in schools.
     
    doubt.jpeg

    Maybe in elite schools. And Indian primary and secondary school system quality is quite poor, as we saw in PISA 2009. The key question is how many have a strong grasp of the language. I'd doubt even 1% of the 15-24 population does. You're more than welcome to provide sources for the "widely taught" remark. A lot of elite Indians tend to define themselves as 'middle-class' even if they are anything but. This seems like something similar.


    We need to atleast semi industrialize and the world needs to enter the post oil age (both likely in 15-20 years) for us to fully show the followers of the Arabian mental illness their place..till then we have to put up atleast a facade of civility and speak about how the bastards ‘enriched’ Indian civilization…
    The extent of Muslim devastation of India is truly horrific..the gangetic belt the heartland of Hindu civilization and the most fertile land in all Eurasia was basically flattened with every major temple and university destroyed..
    They will pay for this!
     
    It seems to me that India doesn't have to do that much, if the ongoing crisis in Pakistan is anything to go by. It might even be in India's interest to keep it from totally fall apart and face a nightmare nuclear proliferation scenario.

    It also appears to me that the main challenge to India is environmental, especially related to water. You also seem to have issues with employment generation. Plenty of protests by traditionally land-owning castes like the Jats in Haryana, Marathas, Patidars in Gujarat and others is worrisome. These were not traditionally backward castes and their demand for reservations show us that there is deep economic anxiety and pain in the Hindu heartland. Part of it is the non-viability of Indian agriculture, where these castes have seen their lands shrink by the decades as more and more infrastructure needed to be built, but insufficient jobs in the non-agricultural, especially manufacturing, sector was provided as an offset. Many jobs in the cities are petty and informal services.

    Next year it is election season. It is amusing to see Pappu and Modi Kaka trying to outdo themselves in farm loan waivers. Just today Gujarat went one step beyond and announced electricity bill waivers for the rural countryside.

    All of this, I think, is a distressing sign of the future. India has a very high-performing elite but it doesn't seem to be able to create the kind of mass prosperity that China was able to.

    “Next year it is election season. It is amusing to see Pappu and Modi Kaka trying to outdo themselves in farm loan waivers. Just today Gujarat went one step beyond and announced electricity bill waivers for the rural countryside”

    That is the basic flaw of one man one vote democracy which is why it is (thankfully) in retreat everywhere.In every democracy politicians will promise voters goodies from the public purse..money that they did not earn and could almost always be used in more productive ways(Infrastructure,R&D Expenditure etc.).

    The important thing is in India there is not (yet) Latin American levels of fiscal irresponsibility and it isn’t as bad.Also being resource poor politicians don’t have a resource sale largess to squander at the end of the day Indian state revenue is from taxation of a productive non resource extraction economy and the key players of this non resource extraction economy(Ambani, Tata, Birla etc.) also finance the political class.

    Farm loan waivers are in per capita terms a rounding error compared to per capita goodie distribution via the welfare state in modern economies.Its regrettable but not catastrophic.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    The same applies to Turkey. Both countries prospered during the oil spike despite having no oil. They are going to outstrip then world now, even China.
    , @Thulean Friend

    In every democracy politicians will promise voters goodies from the public purse
     
    The quality of the people is more important than the system. China has an authoritarian system yet makes it work somewhat well whereas try doing that in resource-poor countries in LatAm or MENA. Or South Asia.

    Also being resource poor politicians don’t have a resource sale largess to squander
     
    Sure... but aren't Indian politicians some of the richest in any democracy? I've read somewhere that members of the Rajya Sabha have a higher net worth than the US senate.

    the key players of this non resource extraction economy(Ambani, Tata, Birla etc.) also finance the political class.
     
    Correct me if I am wrong on this one, but didn't the NDA government pass a finance law as a 'money bill', where they made corporate donations basically anonymous? I remember reading about it. This is organised corruption, though we see it in the US as well.

    Farm loan waivers are in per capita terms a rounding error compared to per capita goodie distribution via the welfare state in modern economies.Its regrettable but not catastrophic.
     
    Not all welfare is bad. Giving gas LPG connections to poor families is a net positive, especially when linked to Aadhar because it reduces pollution, some of it may be deadly, from cooking when using more primitive methods.

    And while farm loan waivers are still not very numerous, their popularity are increasing. Don't forget that in many cases, the PSU banks are already saddled with weak balancesheets and they get hammered even more, because politicians use them as tools to lend even more and forgive old loans, thereby increasing the NPA share. And it is moving beyond just farm loans, as the case in Gujarat exemplifies.
  296. @reiner Tor
    The Greeks are descendants of the Ancient Hellenes. It’s just a fact. There could be Nordicist fantasies about the ancient Hellenes being Nordics, but recent genetic studies have confirmed that the Greeks are the closest present population to them.

    Regarding Macedonians, the ancient ones were closely related to the Hellenes, but the present ones are more closely related to the other ancient Balkan populations, which were relatively distinct from Greeks.

    By the way, is Hungarian the only language where the ancient and present Macedonians have different names? “Makedón” for the ancient ones and “macedón” (the c pronounced as ts) for the present ones.

    The so called Makedonski have no relation whatsoever with the ancient Macedonians. The Kingdom of Macedonia’s original heartland was the Macedonian plain and the Saronic gulf. Both areas were still majority Greek by the 20th century. “Macedonia” in Ottoman times didn’t designate historic Macedonia but the Macedonian Sanjak. The Macedonian Sanjak en-globed many inland regions that weren’t part of historic Macedonia and were populated by southern Slavs. The so called makedonski claim that they are entitled to all of Greek Macedonia due to the fact that the region that the ottomans called Macedonia had a Slavic plurality. The Vardar region which comprises modern day FYROM’s territory was part of Paeonia. The Paeonians were a non Greek people (probably Thracian )that were enemies of Macedonia and were eventually conquered by Philip II. The genetic ancestry of modern day Slavic “Macedonians” is thus Slavic and Balkanoid but probably devoid of greek admixture due to the fact that Greeks never inhabited the region.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    You know who I blame for the current mess in the Balkans? I actually blame the brothers Serbs. They made the colossal stupidity of teaming up with the Greeks in the Balkan wars and stabbing their brothers Bulgarians in the back. The stupidest thing that any Slavic nation has ever done.

    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.

    My message to the brothers Serbs: ditch the Greeks – the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution. The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance.

    Despite all the grievances that Bulgarians have against the Serbs – they still respect them, where the Greeks only look for whom they can use next. Serbia tried to create Yugoslavia with the “brothers” Croats, that never worked out with those back-stabbers. Never mind the same language, Bulgarian and Serbian languages are close enough, they can understand each other. Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans. Don’t let the argument between 2 brothers benefit a useless 3rd party.
  297. @Dmitry
    "Goy" means in the Bible "nationality" (for example Jews call themselves "Goy Kadosh" - "holy nation"). In later use, it becomes referring to members of other nations than Jews (non-Jews), by its absence of "holy" or "chosen" written after the word "nation". In this sense, a "goy" refers by absence to a non-Jew (any person whose maternal grandmother was not a Jew).

    In the case above, we have an admiral who thinks Kant writes nonsense, and that Kant (a German who has been in the Russian Empire only 4 years of his 79 year life) was a traitor, who begged for a university job. So not just a stupid person, but one proud of their stupidity.

    Here are two concepts:

    1. A person who is not Jewish.

    2. An idiot who seems to think Kant was Russian living in Russian Empire, and who boasts proudly about not understanding his books.

    Connection between the two concepts, there is not.

    “Goy” is an insult, as you know full well. Ask your parents and grandparents what the word “bydlo” really signifies.

    who thinks Kant writes nonsense

    That’s a sane and normal position. Kant did, indeed, write nonsense.

    …and that Kant (a German who has been in the Russian Empire only 4 years of his 79 year life) was a traitor, who begged for a university job

    The admiral never said that Kant was a traitor to Russia. Specifically, he said that Kant “betrayed his homeland”. Kant’s homeland wasn’t Russia.

    Learn some basic literacy and critical thinking before throwing around Jewish racist insults.

    P.S. Why is that the most toxic and arrogant Jews are always the dumbest? Rest assured, if some putz is screeching about ‘cattle’, ‘subhumans’ and Jewish racial supremacy, then he’s an 80-IQ retard in real life.

    This admiral’s job has nothing to do with philosophy or history, and yet he seems to know much more about Kant’s biography that you do.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Anonymous Coward what's your nationality?

    1. You say you are not American.

    2. You are not Russian (or from a Russian speaking country) - you don't understand common insults in the language, their meaning, context. And you wrote strange misconceptions on other topics.

    3. You are likely not Jewish, as you are exhibiting a negative obsession with Jews.

    So, what are you? Canadian?


    “Goy” is an insult, as you know full well.
     
    It means (the word "nation" followed by absence of designations "holy" or "chosen") "non-Jew".

    Whether you view it is an implicit insult, it will depend on attitude of speaker to non-Jews.


    Ask your parents and grandparents what the word “bydlo” really signifies.

     

    I'm writing this for others who might be interested in the topic.

    Word enters Russian from Polish,"cattle".

    In Russian, it is used as an insult from around 1860s, as derogatory insult of the lower classes.

    As an insult, this term for cattle be seen used from the second half of 19th century (1860s-1870s) in writers such as Gleb Uspensky, Tsensky, Krestovsky, Nikolai Leskov, Aleksey Pisemsky, etc.

    In their usage of cattle, can be seen from context the connotations of "group thinking", "vulgarity", etc.

    But when they were using it from the late 19th century, it would have been more fresh and less cliche, than today


    The admiral never said that Kant was a traitor to Russia. Specifically, he said that Kant “betrayed his homeland”. Kant’s homeland wasn’t Russia
     
    You are in some kind of competition with yourself to be wrong in every detail

    Admiral says Kant betrays his motherland, humiliates himself, and begs on the knees for a university position.

    He's talking Kant's attempt to become professor and subsequent appointment by Kingdom of Prussia. This years after town was in Russian Empire (only 4 years - 1758-62).

    There's no possible way Kant betrayed Germany/Prussia - but if you think he is Russian (as this illiterate admiral), then you would see Kant as betraying his motherland when he takes up a position with the Kingdom of Prussia.


    Kant did, indeed, write nonsense

     

    Because you are too stupid to understand something, does not mean it is "nonsense", although may will appear as such to you.

    Learn some basic literacy and critical thinking before throwing around Jewish racist insults.

     

    Where are "Jewish racial insults"?

    P.S. Why is that the most toxic and arrogant Jews are always the dumbest? Rest assured, if some putz is screeching about ‘cattle’, ‘subhumans’ and Jewish racial supremacy, then he’s an 80-IQ retard in real life.

     

    Who is "screeching" Jewish racial supremacy?

    There is indication again, of some genuine mental illness in your comment.


    This admiral’s job has nothing to do with philosophy or history, and yet he seems to know much more about Kant’s biography that you do.

     

    Admiral thinks Kant was Russian. He knows not just less about Kant than me, but he doesn't even understand the nationality of the greatest German philosopher.
  298. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    There are many less world-famous Ukrainians who would disagree.
     
    Name some less world-famous Ukrainian figures of stature who would disagree.

    Ivan Franko, Taras Shevchenko, Lesya Ukrainka,…

  299. @reiner Tor

    “ancient Estonians ruled the world but this knowledge has been suppressed by occupiers”
     
    Do such idiocies exist in Estonia? I thought it was unique to Hungary.

    Oh no, Finland and Estonia have a very similar mini-industry of people who try to prove that the Finno-Ugric theory is a hoax promoted by Swedes and/or Russians.

    Most people will easily believe that Finno-Ugric languages are a thing (we can recognize some words of Mari, Mordvin etc) but the sticking point is the idea that the original Finno-Ugric homeland is on the Volga river which is *in Russia*. It does not help to point out that this would have been long before Russia existed. A lot of Estonians and Finns will just instinctively assume that it’s all a plot to turn us into Russians and their brain shuts down.

    Also, politics of the interwar era over here had a big culture war between Finns and Swedes over who gets to be the favorite of Germany and the Swedes considered the eastern origins of Finns one of their big propaganda weapons. There definitely was a Swedish plot to ruin the racial reputation of Finns in Nazi era Germany and there’s a set of Finns who think it’s all still secretly going on.

    So there’s a market for “dissident intellectuals” who propose alternatives to the Volga homeland that aren’t in Russia and if their theories don’t get support in academia they can just explain it as a conspiracy of Swedish Nazis or Russian agents since a whole lot of people already believe in scheming Swedish Nazis and Russian agents.

    Of course these dissidents tend to overshoot their goals and the alternative theories frequently turn into ancient Estonians discovering America and the like. The most common ones insist that we are the pre-Indo-European Western Europeans and that there are FU languages on the Volga only because ancient Finns migrated towards the east. The less common ones are the ones who try to connect us to the Far East, usually to the Mongols or the Japanese since they once kicked Russian ass. We had a few people selling the Sumerian stuff, too, but they’re dead now.

    • Replies: @Hanoodtroll

    Also, politics of the interwar era over here had a big culture war between Finns and Swedes over who gets to be the favorite of Germany and the Swedes considered the eastern origins of Finns one of their big propaganda weapons. There definitely was a Swedish plot to ruin the racial reputation of Finns in Nazi era Germany and there’s a set of Finns who think it’s all still secretly going on.
     
    There was a competition between Swedes and Finns over who could be the favorite of Germany? Interesting. So who won?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    I grew up in America rather than Sweden, but I am Swedish. Swedish parents and Swedish family.

    I can report that everyone in my family likes Finland and only has positive things to save about Finland other than jokes about Finns getting drunk and stabbing people.

    My great grandparents in fact adopted an orphan from the Winter War.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    I grew up in America rather than Sweden, but I am Swedish. Swedish parents and Swedish family.

    I can report that everyone in my family likes Finland and only has positive things to save about Finland other than jokes about Finns getting drunk and stabbing people.

    My great grandparents in fact adopted an orphan from the Winter War.
  300. @Hyperborean

    But the main UK island calls itself “Great Britain”, so whatever.
     
    This is because Brittany is 'Little Britain'.

    In French Great Britain is Grande Bretagne while Brittany is Bretagne. In German Great Britain is Großbritannien while Brittany used to be Kleinbritannien.

    Just how like Małopolska and Wielkopolska are territorial designations.

    This is not like what East Asians used to do.

    Furthermore, the Little and Great designations relate to distance from Rome/Byzantium. Little Russia, Great Russia, same for Poland as observed. Asia Minor is a well-known case.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    LOL

    Philip is always here when you need a good laugh. Turkey will be the first emerging market that will enter a recession. The country's economic growth for the last 15 years was due to a construction boom enabled by low interest rates. As soon as rates go up Turkey will go bankrupt.
  301. @songbird
    Is Singapore a real country? It is very famous and economically successful. Doesn't have any oil. Only natural resource is its location and anchorage.

    On the other hand, could it exist without China anymore than HK or Macau? It is a massive population sink. Needs to be sustained by Chinese immigration.

    And does it have a culture? I've known Singaporeans who virtue signal about their diversity, believing they are a morally superior country to the US because they don't have any trouble with poor blacks. Somehow the Chinese have cleverly tricked them into being satisfied under their authoritarian rule. But at what price? The price of having no culture. and not much in the way of natural rights.

    Singapore is definitely not a real country, though it’s an interesting experiment.

    They’re succumbing to the poz now as it is. The current ruler is not up to the standard of his father.

    And in any case Singapore’s government is overrated. The Central Provident Fund (worse run than Malaysia’s equivalent if you can believe it) and Temasek are both corrupt jokes, and the government respects its subjects so little that they raise the price of electricity and blame it on the oil price (Singapore uses LNG for generation, not oil).

    Also worth asking how much of Singapore’s success owes to the same thing Hong Kong owed its success to (British legacy, Chinese population) rather than enlightened despotism.

  302. @Vishnugupta
    "Next year it is election season. It is amusing to see Pappu and Modi Kaka trying to outdo themselves in farm loan waivers. Just today Gujarat went one step beyond and announced electricity bill waivers for the rural countryside"

    That is the basic flaw of one man one vote democracy which is why it is (thankfully) in retreat everywhere.In every democracy politicians will promise voters goodies from the public purse..money that they did not earn and could almost always be used in more productive ways(Infrastructure,R&D Expenditure etc.).

    The important thing is in India there is not (yet) Latin American levels of fiscal irresponsibility and it isn't as bad.Also being resource poor politicians don't have a resource sale largess to squander at the end of the day Indian state revenue is from taxation of a productive non resource extraction economy and the key players of this non resource extraction economy(Ambani, Tata, Birla etc.) also finance the political class.

    Farm loan waivers are in per capita terms a rounding error compared to per capita goodie distribution via the welfare state in modern economies.Its regrettable but not catastrophic.

    The same applies to Turkey. Both countries prospered during the oil spike despite having no oil. They are going to outstrip then world now, even China.

  303. @sean42
    Let us have a debate here, are authoritarian regimes basically the only way that a country can avoid getting pozzed? And in order to continue to avoid getting sucked up on cultural degeneracy it needs to maintain an autocracy?

    Extreme localism/subsidiarity may be another way, as the costs of catering to untermenschen more greatly strain local resources.

    But it doesn’t look good. In any system where legitimacy is conferred by elections, there’s an incentive baked into the cake to expand the franchise as widely as possible…including beyond the country’s boundaries. And the population of people who should not vote mostly always exceeds the population that should.

    • Replies: @songbird
    What happened in Florida recently was disturbing: felons given the right by ballot initiative. Even if we say blacks made the difference - it was pretty close without blacks.

    But even so, it is a sham. Globalists hate primaries, even as they fight to expand the vote extranationally. Ballots are repeated until they get the right answer. Then they are never brought up again. Localism is plainly a virtue because they hate it.
  304. @Seraphim
    The 'German' President of Romania is a 'Sas'. They are Romanian citizens for exactly 100 years and have the same political rights as all Romanians.
    As an aside, Romanians know that Georgian/Gruzin/Iverians are an actual country and culture, that they appreciate. One of the beloved 'Romanian' saints and Neo-Martyr was Antim Ivireanul (ანთიმოზ ივერიელი)/Antimoz Iverieli, Metropolitan of Ungrovlahia (1708-1716), an active promoter of Romanian language and culture.
    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in... Russian shops. In the old times they used to love the 'gruzin' films (as well as the 'gruzinski tchai', imported from Russia, naturally).

    The ‘German’ President of Romania is a ‘Sas’. They are Romanian citizens for exactly 100 years and have the same political rights as all Romanians.
    As an aside, Romanians know that Georgian/Gruzin/Iverians are an actual country and culture, that they appreciate. One of the beloved ‘Romanian’ saints and Neo-Martyr was Antim Ivireanul (ანთიმოზ ივერიელი)/Antimoz Iverieli, Metropolitan of Ungrovlahia (1708-1716), an active promoter of Romanian language and culture.
    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in… Russian shops. In the old times they used to love the ‘gruzin’ films (as well as the ‘gruzinski tchai’, imported from Russia, naturally).

    Thanks for that….very interesting. I knew about exactly 0% of those things in your post ,before I read it

  305. OT

    The Hungarian military is expanding. We already have a dozen Gripen fighter jets. We just bought a few dozens of helicopters, and today they announced that we’re leasing a dozen Leopard2A4 tanks, to help with training – because we’ll buy 44 Leopard2A7 (or A7+?) tanks, and 22 PzH 200 self-propelled guns. Plans are to expand our tank force to 150 tanks, with the other 100 being modern version T-72s (probably Czech or maybe Polish versions). We’ll probably buy some American artillery pieces and air defense systems. And now there are some rumors of an expansion of the air force, even a trebling is not out of the question.

    I can now hardly wait the coming Third World War, where – after a short and easy victorious campaign – we’d finally be able to establish the Hungarian-Japanese border in the Far East. The only issue remaining – shall we return those islands to the Japanese?

    • LOL: Felix Keverich, Talha
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Reiner Tor, since you are Hungarian and seem to possess some decent historical knowledge, I would be interested in hearing about your opinions/evaluation of Admiral Horthy.
    , @Felix Keverich
    That's a large shopping list for such a puny military budget - $1.21 billion in 2017. A single American fighter jet will cost you $100 million, and I'm talking about F-16, not F-35. And don't even think about modern air-defense systems - this stuff is w-way out of your league!
    , @Spisarevski

    We already have a dozen Gripen fighter jets
     
    Really jealous of you, we seem to be going for the F-16s for the air force rearmament, which are an inferior offer for the money in every way.

    We’ll probably buy some American artillery pieces and air defense systems.
     
    Actually not so jealous anymore, the F-16s may be terribly overpriced but they are still at least somewhat useful, unlike American air defense or antediluvian contraptions like the Paladin howitzers.
  306. @reiner Tor
    OT

    The Hungarian military is expanding. We already have a dozen Gripen fighter jets. We just bought a few dozens of helicopters, and today they announced that we're leasing a dozen Leopard2A4 tanks, to help with training - because we'll buy 44 Leopard2A7 (or A7+?) tanks, and 22 PzH 200 self-propelled guns. Plans are to expand our tank force to 150 tanks, with the other 100 being modern version T-72s (probably Czech or maybe Polish versions). We'll probably buy some American artillery pieces and air defense systems. And now there are some rumors of an expansion of the air force, even a trebling is not out of the question.

    I can now hardly wait the coming Third World War, where - after a short and easy victorious campaign - we'd finally be able to establish the Hungarian-Japanese border in the Far East. The only issue remaining - shall we return those islands to the Japanese?

    Reiner Tor, since you are Hungarian and seem to possess some decent historical knowledge, I would be interested in hearing about your opinions/evaluation of Admiral Horthy.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Horthy grabbed power through violence, but those were violent times, so that's okay. He was okay as a national leader, especially since initially he picked the right guys to run the show (especially prime minister Count Bethlen, who stayed as one of his most trusted advisers even in the 1930s-40s, when he was no longer prime minister), and he didn't do much. However, in the 1930s he had some less fortunate picks, and at first he was too slow to correct course (for example he let Gömbös significantly change the composition of the governing party merely because Gömbös was already terminally ill, and he thought it'd be in bad taste to remove an ill person from office...), but overall, it was very difficult to do anything, and arguably until 1943 the course he chose was overall the best for the country. However, he was already too old, lost his favorite son (and intended successor), and was in general way over his head. His decisions in 1944 were obviously sub-optimal, and some simple changes (for example if he had resigned in March) would've made the situation much better.

    Also, in retrospect, his decisions before or early in the war could've been better. Both the Slovaks and the Romanians were prepared to give up ethnically Hungarian areas, but the Hungarian government wanted more, and managed to convince/pressure the Italians and Germans to accept the more excessive claims. (Though in Transylvania Hitler didn't really give us what we wanted, the border was militarily impossible to defend.) As a result, neither of our neighbors accepted the new borders, and it was reversed after the war. Unlike in Dobruja where the Bulgarians managed to make the Romanians accept the new border, and it wasn't reversed after the war.
  307. @Hyperborean
    Reiner Tor, since you are Hungarian and seem to possess some decent historical knowledge, I would be interested in hearing about your opinions/evaluation of Admiral Horthy.

    Horthy grabbed power through violence, but those were violent times, so that’s okay. He was okay as a national leader, especially since initially he picked the right guys to run the show (especially prime minister Count Bethlen, who stayed as one of his most trusted advisers even in the 1930s-40s, when he was no longer prime minister), and he didn’t do much. However, in the 1930s he had some less fortunate picks, and at first he was too slow to correct course (for example he let Gömbös significantly change the composition of the governing party merely because Gömbös was already terminally ill, and he thought it’d be in bad taste to remove an ill person from office…), but overall, it was very difficult to do anything, and arguably until 1943 the course he chose was overall the best for the country. However, he was already too old, lost his favorite son (and intended successor), and was in general way over his head. His decisions in 1944 were obviously sub-optimal, and some simple changes (for example if he had resigned in March) would’ve made the situation much better.

    Also, in retrospect, his decisions before or early in the war could’ve been better. Both the Slovaks and the Romanians were prepared to give up ethnically Hungarian areas, but the Hungarian government wanted more, and managed to convince/pressure the Italians and Germans to accept the more excessive claims. (Though in Transylvania Hitler didn’t really give us what we wanted, the border was militarily impossible to defend.) As a result, neither of our neighbors accepted the new borders, and it was reversed after the war. Unlike in Dobruja where the Bulgarians managed to make the Romanians accept the new border, and it wasn’t reversed after the war.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...Both the Slovaks and the Romanians were prepared to give up ethnically Hungarian areas
     
    That is theoretically true, but in practise the precise borders were going to be an unsolvable issue. The side that has the upper hand always overreaches (it is same elsewhere like Ukr-Polish border or Polish-German). Horthy would not last in 1938 if he was reasonable, there was euphoria, he had to go along.

    In WWII, there were collaborating states (Hungary, Romania, Croatia, Slovakia, Western Ukraine, Baltic states, Finland, Bulgaria, even Austria) and there were completely suppressed states (Poland, Czech, Serbia, Belarus). It was a no-win situation, Germans were too dominant and this was the 'lebesnraum'. Even if people didn't quite believe in '1000 year reich', most thought that it would last much longer.

    Hungary's big problem is that they are never able to read the geography correctly. Instead of living with the realities of Carpathian basin, they repeatedly dream big. Horthy was swept by it too.
  308. @sean42
    I was talking about Spain, Franco was able to run a tight ship as long as he was still around, but things started to fall apart in his last years, and fell apart completely when he died after just a few years, which makes me extremely pessimistic that you can keep out moral decadence while avoiding an autocracy of some sort, maybe we need a reincarnation of Philip II, and keep him in the God Emperor's throne to keep him alive forever?

    I’ve heard it wasn’t long before they had softcore porn on TV. The change was so extreme people considered it an overreaction. Something that would not have happened without Franco.

    The surviving royals of Europe seem such a sorry, pozzed lot. I don’t have a lot of faith in monarchy – maybe that only happens in a constitutional system and Queen Elizabeth would be pushing people out of helicopters were it otherwise – I don’t know. But one problem is that you have regression towards the mean in any lineal system of succesion. I like to kick around the idea that a king could be bred to be both smart and to have solidarity with his people – to be conservative. But it would have to be a continued program of breeding – at least on the level of selecting a mate, if not greater.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    The surviving royals of Europe seem such a sorry, pozzed lot. I don’t have a lot of faith in monarchy – maybe that only happens in a constitutional system and Queen Elizabeth would be pushing people out of helicopters were it otherwise – I don’t know.
     
    Constitutional monarchy is an oxymoron. Either you're king or you're not. If you don't have the power to throw people out of helicopters you're not an actual king. You're a worthless parasite like Elizabeth the Useless.

    The last king of England was James II.

    Nicholas II was right to resist the idea of a constitution. He knew his cousin Georgie was a nice enough chap but a mere figurehead.
  309. Ukrainian regime says it will once again attempt to break into Azov sea, “with participation of international community” (whatever that means).
    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4650924.html

    Exactly the kind of accident they need to extend the martial law and delay presidential election, because Poroshenko is still polling horribly.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    It’s the kind of stuff that could start ww3.
  310. @AP
    You completely missed the point of the comparison.

    …You completely missed the point of the comparison

    Intentionally. What I said about India cannot be said often enough…

    (Or am I again in your feverish mind ‘lying‘?)

    • Replies: @AP
    You alternate between making mistakes, missing points, and lying.
  311. @reiner Tor
    OT

    The Hungarian military is expanding. We already have a dozen Gripen fighter jets. We just bought a few dozens of helicopters, and today they announced that we're leasing a dozen Leopard2A4 tanks, to help with training - because we'll buy 44 Leopard2A7 (or A7+?) tanks, and 22 PzH 200 self-propelled guns. Plans are to expand our tank force to 150 tanks, with the other 100 being modern version T-72s (probably Czech or maybe Polish versions). We'll probably buy some American artillery pieces and air defense systems. And now there are some rumors of an expansion of the air force, even a trebling is not out of the question.

    I can now hardly wait the coming Third World War, where - after a short and easy victorious campaign - we'd finally be able to establish the Hungarian-Japanese border in the Far East. The only issue remaining - shall we return those islands to the Japanese?

    That’s a large shopping list for such a puny military budget – $1.21 billion in 2017. A single American fighter jet will cost you $100 million, and I’m talking about F-16, not F-35. And don’t even think about modern air-defense systems – this stuff is w-way out of your league!

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The shopping list is for the next several years. Military budget is set to double over the next few years. It's easy to double, if it's only 1% of GDP.

    So don't yet worry, we won't conquer Russia until maybe 2025.
    , @dfordoom

    That’s a large shopping list for such a puny military budget – $1.21 billion in 2017. A single American fighter jet will cost you $100 million, and I’m talking about F-16, not F-35. And don’t even think about modern air-defense systems – this stuff is w-way out of your league!
     
    Modern western militaries are never going to be used to defend their own countries so it doesn't matter. The generals feel much more important and the soldiers have some cool toys to play with. And if they're lucky they'll get to die in the sacred cause of the American Empire.
    , @Dmitry
    Hungary are probably clever to have their non-existing army, as they free-ride on their neighbours (which is not even dependent on American support).

    Hungarian aerial space would probably be defended by Poland.

    And Poland has a strong air force (50 F-16s, 30 Mig-29).

    Another joke is Hungarian land forces - their total tanks are somewhere around 30 T-72.

    But again, their land border are defended by Ukraine and/or Poland.

    Poland have hundreds of tanks, including high quality German tanks. And Ukraine still has a lot of tanks, even as the modernization is far less than they claim.

    Hungary has the tiny defense expenditure, but saving in areas like this contribute to their economic situation. E.g. Hungary have Europe's lowest corporation tax, while their neighbours Ukraine and Poland, are not.

    -

    Unlike rational Hungary, countries which completely gambled on America/NATO, and without the possibility to free-ride by neighbour's land army.

    Latvia - 0 tanks.

    Lithuania - 0 tanks.

    Estonia - 0 tanks.

  312. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Max Payne
    It's true. Israelis get all butt-hurt if you spell their country "Palestine". I guess Israel is a fake and gay country.

    Even their cities:
    Yerushalayim vs al-Quds
    Natzrat vs al-Nasra
    etc. etc. etc.

    You know you have an inferiority complex when "Palestinian couscous" is threatening:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/virgin-atlantic-removes-palestinian-from-couscous-description/


    Now that I recall Tel Aviv is the most LGBT-friendly city in the world. Figures.

    In the interest of culinary accuracy, Israeli couscous – the large diameter kind where semolina is rolled into a white sticky sphere – was invented by an Israeli industrial food lab in 1954. There is absolutely nothing “Palestinian” about it, and to call it ‘Palestinian couscous’ is stupid and inaccurate.

    Also, quick, which do you think is the original name: Yerushalayim or Al Quds?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Couscous sucks
  313. @reiner Tor
    Horthy grabbed power through violence, but those were violent times, so that's okay. He was okay as a national leader, especially since initially he picked the right guys to run the show (especially prime minister Count Bethlen, who stayed as one of his most trusted advisers even in the 1930s-40s, when he was no longer prime minister), and he didn't do much. However, in the 1930s he had some less fortunate picks, and at first he was too slow to correct course (for example he let Gömbös significantly change the composition of the governing party merely because Gömbös was already terminally ill, and he thought it'd be in bad taste to remove an ill person from office...), but overall, it was very difficult to do anything, and arguably until 1943 the course he chose was overall the best for the country. However, he was already too old, lost his favorite son (and intended successor), and was in general way over his head. His decisions in 1944 were obviously sub-optimal, and some simple changes (for example if he had resigned in March) would've made the situation much better.

    Also, in retrospect, his decisions before or early in the war could've been better. Both the Slovaks and the Romanians were prepared to give up ethnically Hungarian areas, but the Hungarian government wanted more, and managed to convince/pressure the Italians and Germans to accept the more excessive claims. (Though in Transylvania Hitler didn't really give us what we wanted, the border was militarily impossible to defend.) As a result, neither of our neighbors accepted the new borders, and it was reversed after the war. Unlike in Dobruja where the Bulgarians managed to make the Romanians accept the new border, and it wasn't reversed after the war.

    …Both the Slovaks and the Romanians were prepared to give up ethnically Hungarian areas

    That is theoretically true, but in practise the precise borders were going to be an unsolvable issue. The side that has the upper hand always overreaches (it is same elsewhere like Ukr-Polish border or Polish-German). Horthy would not last in 1938 if he was reasonable, there was euphoria, he had to go along.

    In WWII, there were collaborating states (Hungary, Romania, Croatia, Slovakia, Western Ukraine, Baltic states, Finland, Bulgaria, even Austria) and there were completely suppressed states (Poland, Czech, Serbia, Belarus). It was a no-win situation, Germans were too dominant and this was the ‘lebesnraum‘. Even if people didn’t quite believe in ‘1000 year reich‘, most thought that it would last much longer.

    Hungary’s big problem is that they are never able to read the geography correctly. Instead of living with the realities of Carpathian basin, they repeatedly dream big. Horthy was swept by it too.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    Hungary’s big problem is that they are never able to read the geography correctly. Instead of living with the realities of Carpathian basin, they repeatedly dream big. Horthy was swept by it too.

     

    He was a Hungarian based admiral, who (if I'm not mistaken) kept that title after the end of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    What you say about the Hungarians has been said of the Serbs as well. At issue, is being regionally stronger than some of your neighbors, while not being a major world power.

  314. Greece’s kvetching over Macedonia is 100x as obnoxious as the matter which has come to your attention.

    I assume referring to a republic with 42 million residents as a ‘fake’ country is battlespace preparation for a Russian invasion you’re hoping for. You’ll deserve to have your ass handed to you.

  315. @Felix Keverich
    That's a large shopping list for such a puny military budget - $1.21 billion in 2017. A single American fighter jet will cost you $100 million, and I'm talking about F-16, not F-35. And don't even think about modern air-defense systems - this stuff is w-way out of your league!

    The shopping list is for the next several years. Military budget is set to double over the next few years. It’s easy to double, if it’s only 1% of GDP.

    So don’t yet worry, we won’t conquer Russia until maybe 2025.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    "By 2026 we will could reach 2 percent (of GDP)" is what your defence minister said and it's likely BS. DNR has much stronger military at this point.

    It’s the kind of stuff that could start ww3.
     
    Turchinov clarified that they will invite OSCE officials to their boats next time. So probably no ww3, but just enough tension to prolong the martial law.
  316. @reiner Tor
    The Greeks are descendants of the Ancient Hellenes. It’s just a fact. There could be Nordicist fantasies about the ancient Hellenes being Nordics, but recent genetic studies have confirmed that the Greeks are the closest present population to them.

    Regarding Macedonians, the ancient ones were closely related to the Hellenes, but the present ones are more closely related to the other ancient Balkan populations, which were relatively distinct from Greeks.

    By the way, is Hungarian the only language where the ancient and present Macedonians have different names? “Makedón” for the ancient ones and “macedón” (the c pronounced as ts) for the present ones.

    By the way, is Hungarian the only language where the ancient and present Macedonians have different names?

    In German it’s distinguished as well:
    Ancient Macedon (and the present-day Greek territory) is Makedonien.
    The ex-Yugoslav republic is Mazedonien.
    Seems quite similar to the Hungarian usage.

  317. @Felix Keverich
    Ukrainian regime says it will once again attempt to break into Azov sea, "with participation of international community" (whatever that means).
    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4650924.html

    Exactly the kind of accident they need to extend the martial law and delay presidential election, because Poroshenko is still polling horribly.

    It’s the kind of stuff that could start ww3.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    It’s the kind of stuff that could start ww3.
     
    You say that like it's a bad thing. Don't you watch American movies? War is fun. OK, WW3 might destroy civilisation but it's worth it to force those Russkies to have Gay Pride marches.
  318. @reiner Tor
    The shopping list is for the next several years. Military budget is set to double over the next few years. It's easy to double, if it's only 1% of GDP.

    So don't yet worry, we won't conquer Russia until maybe 2025.

    “By 2026 we will could reach 2 percent (of GDP)” is what your defence minister said and it’s likely BS. DNR has much stronger military at this point.

    It’s the kind of stuff that could start ww3.

    Turchinov clarified that they will invite OSCE officials to their boats next time. So probably no ww3, but just enough tension to prolong the martial law.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Hungary is under serious pressure to increase defense spending. Since Orbán is constantly under pressure because of everything he does, he can ill afford to resist this pressure. Especially since apparently he's using defense spending to appease his powerful western partners, which is to say, mostly the Germans and the French, but probably the Americans will follow, too.

    By the way, without looking it up, I'm pretty sure you seriously overestimate the cost of American fighter jets. The F-35 currently costs less than $100MM, so I don't think the F-16 could cost that much. Maybe the new proposed version of the F-15, which would thus make little economic sense, so unlikely to go into production. The existing versions of F-15 must be cheaper, too.
  319. @Seraphim
    The 'German' President of Romania is a 'Sas'. They are Romanian citizens for exactly 100 years and have the same political rights as all Romanians.
    As an aside, Romanians know that Georgian/Gruzin/Iverians are an actual country and culture, that they appreciate. One of the beloved 'Romanian' saints and Neo-Martyr was Antim Ivireanul (ანთიმოზ ივერიელი)/Antimoz Iverieli, Metropolitan of Ungrovlahia (1708-1716), an active promoter of Romanian language and culture.
    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in... Russian shops. In the old times they used to love the 'gruzin' films (as well as the 'gruzinski tchai', imported from Russia, naturally).

    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in… Russian shops.

    Let me guess, “Berezka”? 🙂 We have the same chain here too. I actually bought a bottle of Saperavi Kvevri from there once and wasn’t too impressed, and one of these days I’ll try the Moldovan and the Armenian brandy they offer too, if I can force myself to buy something different than Courvoisier once for a change.
    Personally my favorite thing about Georgia is their alphabet, aesthetic as fuck.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    Yes, Berezka.
    Try the Moldovan brandy.
  320. @DFH

    reducing it to whose nation has more loanwords is kind of autistic and besides the point

     

    But that was exactly what you were objecting to in what was, if I may say so, a kind of autistic and besides the point way

    Today, Hindi is often peppered with a lot of English phrases. There ought to be a general movement in Bharat today to clean up the language and root it in the local population and its accordant customs and traditions.
     

    Congratulations, you continually miss the point. Here’s the part you left out of your quote:

    I would also change India to Bharat even in English. Hindustan is sometimes used in Hindi (both of those words are also imported/have their roots from foreign muslim rulers).

    The line denotes the argument that quality, and not just quantity, matters. Core words in Hindi – including the name of the language itself! – is foreign. To my mind, neither French or Greek can claim that kind of domination over English. Therefore, the reductionist interpretation is exactly the wrong way to understand it. Not that it didn’t prevent you from drawing the wrong conclusion – repeatedly.

    If you are too dumb to understand something, it’s better to pipe down than to double down and just make yourself look even dumber.

  321. @The Big Red Scary

    the problem here is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.
     
    I was a university philosophy student at the time, writing papers on Kant and the philosophy of mathematics. However, we seem to agree that you made the wiser choice in the amount of time you spent on the subject.

    Kant remains a great thinker, but he is still seminal only in few areas left- ethics, aesthetics, political theory. His epistemology & similar fields are superseded by later developments of physics, mathematics & cognitive psychology (brain imaging etc.). Many of his most analyzed topics are now dated (sense, perception, phenomena, noumena,..).

    Just, this is the case with most philosophers. Those who are still worth reading basically offer a myth, some great vision of life & cosmos not, in most cases, susceptible to analysis or scientific verification. Other than that, apart from ethics/religious thought/aesthetics/political “science”- fundamental philosophical concepts, both East & West (mind, perception, karma, Being, essence, existence, senses, innate ideas, free will, reason, spirit, soul, ..) are, at best, just fruitful metaphors.

    Not that there is anything wrong with that….

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Kant remains a great thinker, but he is still seminal only in few areas left- ethics, aesthetics, political theory. His epistemology & similar fields are superseded by later developments of physics, mathematics & cognitive psychology
     
    How is he superseded by later developments of physics?

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions. It's not a statement of "actual physics", but of extent to which our knowledge can ever access it.

  322. @AP
    You completely missed the point of the comparison.

    Maybe he and DFH are twins.

  323. @reiner Tor
    OT

    The Hungarian military is expanding. We already have a dozen Gripen fighter jets. We just bought a few dozens of helicopters, and today they announced that we're leasing a dozen Leopard2A4 tanks, to help with training - because we'll buy 44 Leopard2A7 (or A7+?) tanks, and 22 PzH 200 self-propelled guns. Plans are to expand our tank force to 150 tanks, with the other 100 being modern version T-72s (probably Czech or maybe Polish versions). We'll probably buy some American artillery pieces and air defense systems. And now there are some rumors of an expansion of the air force, even a trebling is not out of the question.

    I can now hardly wait the coming Third World War, where - after a short and easy victorious campaign - we'd finally be able to establish the Hungarian-Japanese border in the Far East. The only issue remaining - shall we return those islands to the Japanese?

    We already have a dozen Gripen fighter jets

    Really jealous of you, we seem to be going for the F-16s for the air force rearmament, which are an inferior offer for the money in every way.

    We’ll probably buy some American artillery pieces and air defense systems.

    Actually not so jealous anymore, the F-16s may be terribly overpriced but they are still at least somewhat useful, unlike American air defense or antediluvian contraptions like the Paladin howitzers.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    American air defense systems have a bad reputation here at Unz, but they are actually not worthless. It’s not like the Russian S-400 (S-300 PMU3, it was renamed for marketing reasons) has proved itself in battle. The Patriot was originally designed against aircraft, not ballistic missiles, and it’s questionable if anything works well against ballistic missiles. Also, the Americans usually keep the names, while the Russians rename everything after a few modifications, so while you are talking about “the” Patriot (in reality three generations of the system), after a while the most modern of the various S-300 versions was renamed the S-400. The difference between the S-300 PM2 and the PMU3 (a.k.a. S-400) is probably smaller than the difference between the PM2 and the early versions of the S-300. The Americans have the F-16 Block 70, while the latest version of the Su-27 is the Su-35. To be sure, the Su-35 is quite different from the Su-30 or earlier Su-27 variants, but the same is true of the F-16 Block 70 and some early F-16A.

    The howitzer we’ll buy (according to rumors) is the M777, a towed artillery piece. It’s probably as good as any, maybe overpriced (as American weapons often are).

  324. @Vishnugupta
    "Next year it is election season. It is amusing to see Pappu and Modi Kaka trying to outdo themselves in farm loan waivers. Just today Gujarat went one step beyond and announced electricity bill waivers for the rural countryside"

    That is the basic flaw of one man one vote democracy which is why it is (thankfully) in retreat everywhere.In every democracy politicians will promise voters goodies from the public purse..money that they did not earn and could almost always be used in more productive ways(Infrastructure,R&D Expenditure etc.).

    The important thing is in India there is not (yet) Latin American levels of fiscal irresponsibility and it isn't as bad.Also being resource poor politicians don't have a resource sale largess to squander at the end of the day Indian state revenue is from taxation of a productive non resource extraction economy and the key players of this non resource extraction economy(Ambani, Tata, Birla etc.) also finance the political class.

    Farm loan waivers are in per capita terms a rounding error compared to per capita goodie distribution via the welfare state in modern economies.Its regrettable but not catastrophic.

    In every democracy politicians will promise voters goodies from the public purse

    The quality of the people is more important than the system. China has an authoritarian system yet makes it work somewhat well whereas try doing that in resource-poor countries in LatAm or MENA. Or South Asia.

    Also being resource poor politicians don’t have a resource sale largess to squander

    Sure… but aren’t Indian politicians some of the richest in any democracy? I’ve read somewhere that members of the Rajya Sabha have a higher net worth than the US senate.

    the key players of this non resource extraction economy(Ambani, Tata, Birla etc.) also finance the political class.

    Correct me if I am wrong on this one, but didn’t the NDA government pass a finance law as a ‘money bill’, where they made corporate donations basically anonymous? I remember reading about it. This is organised corruption, though we see it in the US as well.

    Farm loan waivers are in per capita terms a rounding error compared to per capita goodie distribution via the welfare state in modern economies.Its regrettable but not catastrophic.

    Not all welfare is bad. Giving gas LPG connections to poor families is a net positive, especially when linked to Aadhar because it reduces pollution, some of it may be deadly, from cooking when using more primitive methods.

    And while farm loan waivers are still not very numerous, their popularity are increasing. Don’t forget that in many cases, the PSU banks are already saddled with weak balancesheets and they get hammered even more, because politicians use them as tools to lend even more and forgive old loans, thereby increasing the NPA share. And it is moving beyond just farm loans, as the case in Gujarat exemplifies.

  325. @anonymous coward
    "Goy" is an insult, as you know full well. Ask your parents and grandparents what the word "bydlo" really signifies.

    who thinks Kant writes nonsense
     
    That's a sane and normal position. Kant did, indeed, write nonsense.

    ...and that Kant (a German who has been in the Russian Empire only 4 years of his 79 year life) was a traitor, who begged for a university job
     
    The admiral never said that Kant was a traitor to Russia. Specifically, he said that Kant "betrayed his homeland". Kant's homeland wasn't Russia.

    Learn some basic literacy and critical thinking before throwing around Jewish racist insults.

    P.S. Why is that the most toxic and arrogant Jews are always the dumbest? Rest assured, if some putz is screeching about 'cattle', 'subhumans' and Jewish racial supremacy, then he's an 80-IQ retard in real life.

    This admiral's job has nothing to do with philosophy or history, and yet he seems to know much more about Kant's biography that you do.

    Anonymous Coward what’s your nationality?

    1. You say you are not American.

    2. You are not Russian (or from a Russian speaking country) – you don’t understand common insults in the language, their meaning, context. And you wrote strange misconceptions on other topics.

    3. You are likely not Jewish, as you are exhibiting a negative obsession with Jews.

    So, what are you? Canadian?

    “Goy” is an insult, as you know full well.

    It means (the word “nation” followed by absence of designations “holy” or “chosen”) “non-Jew”.

    Whether you view it is an implicit insult, it will depend on attitude of speaker to non-Jews.

    Ask your parents and grandparents what the word “bydlo” really signifies.

    I’m writing this for others who might be interested in the topic.

    Word enters Russian from Polish,”cattle”.

    In Russian, it is used as an insult from around 1860s, as derogatory insult of the lower classes.

    As an insult, this term for cattle be seen used from the second half of 19th century (1860s-1870s) in writers such as Gleb Uspensky, Tsensky, Krestovsky, Nikolai Leskov, Aleksey Pisemsky, etc.

    In their usage of cattle, can be seen from context the connotations of “group thinking”, “vulgarity”, etc.

    But when they were using it from the late 19th century, it would have been more fresh and less cliche, than today

    The admiral never said that Kant was a traitor to Russia. Specifically, he said that Kant “betrayed his homeland”. Kant’s homeland wasn’t Russia

    You are in some kind of competition with yourself to be wrong in every detail

    Admiral says Kant betrays his motherland, humiliates himself, and begs on the knees for a university position.

    He’s talking Kant’s attempt to become professor and subsequent appointment by Kingdom of Prussia. This years after town was in Russian Empire (only 4 years – 1758-62).

    There’s no possible way Kant betrayed Germany/Prussia – but if you think he is Russian (as this illiterate admiral), then you would see Kant as betraying his motherland when he takes up a position with the Kingdom of Prussia.

    Kant did, indeed, write nonsense

    Because you are too stupid to understand something, does not mean it is “nonsense”, although may will appear as such to you.

    Learn some basic literacy and critical thinking before throwing around Jewish racist insults.

    Where are “Jewish racial insults”?

    P.S. Why is that the most toxic and arrogant Jews are always the dumbest? Rest assured, if some putz is screeching about ‘cattle’, ‘subhumans’ and Jewish racial supremacy, then he’s an 80-IQ retard in real life.

    Who is “screeching” Jewish racial supremacy?

    There is indication again, of some genuine mental illness in your comment.

    This admiral’s job has nothing to do with philosophy or history, and yet he seems to know much more about Kant’s biography that you do.

    Admiral thinks Kant was Russian. He knows not just less about Kant than me, but he doesn’t even understand the nationality of the greatest German philosopher.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Where are “Jewish racial insults”?
     
    Like I said: ask your parents or your grandparents. They will enlighten you. Also they will explain to you how the word "bydlo" came about, why it's wide-spread in Russia and why 90% of the time used by Jews, not Russians.

    Admiral says Kant betrays his motherland, humiliates himself, and begs on the knees for a university position.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigsberg#Russian_Empire

    Konigsberg was at one time conquered by Elizabeth I and annexed to Russia.

    Kant wrote a letter to her, professing 'undying loyalty' and begging for a job. (She didn't answer.)

    The admiral is referring to this incident, when Kant tried to turn coats and enter into Russian service, begging for a job. Look it up. Presumably you're literate?


    Admiral thinks Kant was Russian.
     
    Of course not. Read his damn quote again. Unlike you, he isn't some 80-IQ blowhard who can only parrot Jewish insults and hokhmes without even understanding them. He actually seems to know Kant's biography and read some of his writings. (And he's right, shit like the 'categorical imperative' is worthless and vile, crowleyism couched in obscurantist flim-flam, and Kant's attempt to become a Russian subject to get another dude's university chair is very bad character.)
  326. @songbird
    Most frequent barnyard insult in American English is to call someone "chicken" which means "cowardly". Since chickens are monstrous animals, it is not the word I would have chosen, but still it sounds right.

    Sometimes you hear the expression "dumb as an ox." Which of course is a type of cattle. another simile is "randy as a goat. " Plural insults seem rare, but there is the newer "sheeple."

    I think the most insulting one is “sheeple”. But you also need to combine with some concept of low class and swinish connotations.

    The funniest internet insults I’ve read here was from our friend Gerard (whatever he is calling AP every week).

    • Replies: @AP

    The funniest internet insults I’ve read here was from our friend Gerard (whatever he is calling AP every week).
     
    I wonder whether my internet stalker is an anti-Russian troll, or sincere.
    , @Gerard2

    The funniest internet insults I’ve read here was from our friend Gerard (whatever he is calling AP every week).
     
    the key to it, Dmitry , is that I don't try to be gratuitous in my insults, I prefer to be subtle when addressing these lowest common denominator of humanity, fantasist retards

    Obviously there is no such thing as "Ukrainian" humour because it is exactly the same as Russian humour - and the American Russia|"experts" or State Deparment I'm sure don't get 95% of Zakharova's subtle wisecracks

    As for the Kant issue, I thing you may be unaware that this was in the context of the "Great Name of Russia" Airport naming project.Kant was nominated for and nearly won ( he was , just, winning at the early stage) ahead of Mikhailovich and Elizaveta Petrovna ( winner). I don't think there is any Admiral on the planet who wouldn't do the same thing in similar circumstances. Foreigners who benefited Russia are fine ( Vitus Bering was in the running to win at many airports), the link with Kant is less compelling

    You could have the view that the whole of humanity benefits from his works and that Kaliningrad should have no problem with celebrating Kant with pride , as their own...I wouldn't dispute that , though I just prefer the other two on the shortlist
  327. @Bardon Kaldian
    Kant remains a great thinker, but he is still seminal only in few areas left- ethics, aesthetics, political theory. His epistemology & similar fields are superseded by later developments of physics, mathematics & cognitive psychology (brain imaging etc.). Many of his most analyzed topics are now dated (sense, perception, phenomena, noumena,..).

    Just, this is the case with most philosophers. Those who are still worth reading basically offer a myth, some great vision of life & cosmos not, in most cases, susceptible to analysis or scientific verification. Other than that, apart from ethics/religious thought/aesthetics/political "science"- fundamental philosophical concepts, both East & West (mind, perception, karma, Being, essence, existence, senses, innate ideas, free will, reason, spirit, soul, ..) are, at best, just fruitful metaphors.

    Not that there is anything wrong with that....

    Kant remains a great thinker, but he is still seminal only in few areas left- ethics, aesthetics, political theory. His epistemology & similar fields are superseded by later developments of physics, mathematics & cognitive psychology

    How is he superseded by later developments of physics?

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions. It’s not a statement of “actual physics”, but of extent to which our knowledge can ever access it.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions. It’s not a statement of “actual physics”, but of extent to which our knowledge can ever access it.
     
    This is trivial. Here is where he is dated:

    * he, of course, did not know about ways of cognition of other beings. For instance, it is scientifically established that rattlesnakes & frogs perceive the world "out there" in a different way. They all have their own cognitive "spaces" (it is impossible for any living being to envision anything without "space". Even Dante's immortal souls live in a sort of imagined hyper-space, since their situation is described as "beings" in "worlds", i.e. spaces, never mind its dimensions. Even "time" in Dante's worlds does exist, because one can, hypothetically, measure processes between his imagined events, however weird they may be). So, "space"- as "world outside of a being" & "time"- as duration of process- are universals of any cognition of any being, real or imaginary. Kant insisted that our 3-dimensional Euclidean space & conventional clock-time were human universals of cognition. But, they are universals of our perception- which is trivial, it was evident for everyone & anyone, including Papuans & Aborigines - while our cognition has gone beyond it with Einsteinian revolution. It doesn't matter what we perceive in our ordinary waking consciousness; what matters is that we can not only imagine, but even construct multidimensional realities beyond 3 dimensions & measure what "really" happens, irrespective of our common-sense perception apparatus.

    * as for causality, it is mostly human (although many primates have rudiments of before>after, therefore cause>effect way of relating to world). Then again, quantum mechanics in various interpretations (Bohr, Heisenberg, Bohm, Everett, De Witt, Feynman,..) has dispensed with common-sense approach to reality & established new ways of describing the world, out-there & in-here (including probabilities & many worlds). Of course we still, in our everyday lives, perceive as we have always done, but our knowing of the world has been vastly enlarged.

    In short, I don't see how this rather trivial things re our ordinary waking consciousness in relation to world "out there" (space, time, causality,..) are much relevant either with regard to scientific knowledge of the world (relativity, quantum physics,..), and let alone quasi supra-rational intuitive insights in the world (mystics of all times).
    , @utu

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions.
     
    The reductive materialists probably like "szopen", "AK" and all those big on evolution, IQism and so on have no problem eliminating the higher form of reality that Kant dealt with by casting it to the category of mere epiphenomenon that does not matter. But their position on the issue can be easily change by shoving a hot iron up to their asses. You would see how quickly they would stop disassociating themselves with the so-called epiphenomenon.
  328. @Thorfinnsson
    Extreme localism/subsidiarity may be another way, as the costs of catering to untermenschen more greatly strain local resources.

    But it doesn't look good. In any system where legitimacy is conferred by elections, there's an incentive baked into the cake to expand the franchise as widely as possible...including beyond the country's boundaries. And the population of people who should not vote mostly always exceeds the population that should.

    What happened in Florida recently was disturbing: felons given the right by ballot initiative. Even if we say blacks made the difference – it was pretty close without blacks.

    But even so, it is a sham. Globalists hate primaries, even as they fight to expand the vote extranationally. Ballots are repeated until they get the right answer. Then they are never brought up again. Localism is plainly a virtue because they hate it.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Americans are exceptionally hopeless here.

    Whenever the subject of voting comes up with anyone other than a machine politician, people immediately resort to grand principles rather than what actually matters--whom ballots are cast for.

    So with respect to felons, people state that they've paid their debt to society and thus should have their rights restored. This is an exceedingly stupid way to look at the issue.
    , @utu
    In Europe in many countries elections are held in prisons and even in psychiatric hospitals and all those who did not have their civil rights suspended can vote. In the US elections should be held in jails for all those who are awaiting trials before being convicted. Ex convicts should have had a right to vote. I am pretty sure that if the issue was posed to the Supreme Court the issue would be resolved in favor of ex convicts because I doubt that suspension of civil rights can be made for life. But the issue was not challenge because nobody cares about criminals and no politician would dare to stand for it.
  329. @Anonymous
    In the interest of culinary accuracy, Israeli couscous - the large diameter kind where semolina is rolled into a white sticky sphere - was invented by an Israeli industrial food lab in 1954. There is absolutely nothing "Palestinian" about it, and to call it 'Palestinian couscous' is stupid and inaccurate.

    Also, quick, which do you think is the original name: Yerushalayim or Al Quds?

    Couscous sucks

  330. @songbird
    What happened in Florida recently was disturbing: felons given the right by ballot initiative. Even if we say blacks made the difference - it was pretty close without blacks.

    But even so, it is a sham. Globalists hate primaries, even as they fight to expand the vote extranationally. Ballots are repeated until they get the right answer. Then they are never brought up again. Localism is plainly a virtue because they hate it.

    Americans are exceptionally hopeless here.

    Whenever the subject of voting comes up with anyone other than a machine politician, people immediately resort to grand principles rather than what actually matters–whom ballots are cast for.

    So with respect to felons, people state that they’ve paid their debt to society and thus should have their rights restored. This is an exceedingly stupid way to look at the issue.

  331. @reiner Tor
    In 2008 Orbán promised to officially change the name of Georgia from Grúzia to Georgia (both g’s pronounced as in leg, the vowels are also different from English, in general slightly more difficult to pronounce than Grúzia, but the name of the people sounds silly with many vowels, georgiai, while the other version, grúz, is significantly easier), and then he followed through after 2010. But literally no one is using it, only when making a point. Although Grúzia is of Russian origin, and it only came into use after 1945, it’s pretty entrenched by now.

    Why not just call the country Kartvelebia?

  332. @Felix Keverich
    "By 2026 we will could reach 2 percent (of GDP)" is what your defence minister said and it's likely BS. DNR has much stronger military at this point.

    It’s the kind of stuff that could start ww3.
     
    Turchinov clarified that they will invite OSCE officials to their boats next time. So probably no ww3, but just enough tension to prolong the martial law.

    Hungary is under serious pressure to increase defense spending. Since Orbán is constantly under pressure because of everything he does, he can ill afford to resist this pressure. Especially since apparently he’s using defense spending to appease his powerful western partners, which is to say, mostly the Germans and the French, but probably the Americans will follow, too.

    By the way, without looking it up, I’m pretty sure you seriously overestimate the cost of American fighter jets. The F-35 currently costs less than $100MM, so I don’t think the F-16 could cost that much. Maybe the new proposed version of the F-15, which would thus make little economic sense, so unlikely to go into production. The existing versions of F-15 must be cheaper, too.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    US sells its weapons to allies at the price way above production costs. Slovakia recently ordered 14 F16 at the cost of $1,3 billion.

    https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/riat/2018/07/11/slovakia-selects-f-16-over-gripen-for-new-fighter/

    US "Patriot" air-defence system goes for over $10 billion, which is fucking insane, especially since it doesn't even work!

    https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/12/06/poland-surprised-by-high-price-tag-for-its-long-awaited-patriot-purchase/

  333. @Dmitry

    Kant remains a great thinker, but he is still seminal only in few areas left- ethics, aesthetics, political theory. His epistemology & similar fields are superseded by later developments of physics, mathematics & cognitive psychology
     
    How is he superseded by later developments of physics?

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions. It's not a statement of "actual physics", but of extent to which our knowledge can ever access it.

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions. It’s not a statement of “actual physics”, but of extent to which our knowledge can ever access it.

    This is trivial. Here is where he is dated:

    * he, of course, did not know about ways of cognition of other beings. For instance, it is scientifically established that rattlesnakes & frogs perceive the world “out there” in a different way. They all have their own cognitive “spaces” (it is impossible for any living being to envision anything without “space”. Even Dante’s immortal souls live in a sort of imagined hyper-space, since their situation is described as “beings” in “worlds”, i.e. spaces, never mind its dimensions. Even “time” in Dante’s worlds does exist, because one can, hypothetically, measure processes between his imagined events, however weird they may be). So, “space”- as “world outside of a being” & “time”- as duration of process- are universals of any cognition of any being, real or imaginary. Kant insisted that our 3-dimensional Euclidean space & conventional clock-time were human universals of cognition. But, they are universals of our perception- which is trivial, it was evident for everyone & anyone, including Papuans & Aborigines – while our cognition has gone beyond it with Einsteinian revolution. It doesn’t matter what we perceive in our ordinary waking consciousness; what matters is that we can not only imagine, but even construct multidimensional realities beyond 3 dimensions & measure what “really” happens, irrespective of our common-sense perception apparatus.

    * as for causality, it is mostly human (although many primates have rudiments of before>after, therefore cause>effect way of relating to world). Then again, quantum mechanics in various interpretations (Bohr, Heisenberg, Bohm, Everett, De Witt, Feynman,..) has dispensed with common-sense approach to reality & established new ways of describing the world, out-there & in-here (including probabilities & many worlds). Of course we still, in our everyday lives, perceive as we have always done, but our knowing of the world has been vastly enlarged.

    In short, I don’t see how this rather trivial things re our ordinary waking consciousness in relation to world “out there” (space, time, causality,..) are much relevant either with regard to scientific knowledge of the world (relativity, quantum physics,..), and let alone quasi supra-rational intuitive insights in the world (mystics of all times).

    • Replies: @Anon

    It doesn’t matter what we perceive in our ordinary waking consciousness; what matters is that we can not only imagine, but even construct multidimensional realities beyond 3 dimensions & measure what “really” happens, irrespective of our common-sense perception apparatus.
     
    Bosh. We could and did always imagine what was "outside time"-- that is also "trivial". But if a philosophical argument is not based on what is "trivial" it is based on what is controversial, and that is a less fair basis. Though I'm not certain of the value of the structure Kant built.
  334. @Dmitry
    Anonymous Coward what's your nationality?

    1. You say you are not American.

    2. You are not Russian (or from a Russian speaking country) - you don't understand common insults in the language, their meaning, context. And you wrote strange misconceptions on other topics.

    3. You are likely not Jewish, as you are exhibiting a negative obsession with Jews.

    So, what are you? Canadian?


    “Goy” is an insult, as you know full well.
     
    It means (the word "nation" followed by absence of designations "holy" or "chosen") "non-Jew".

    Whether you view it is an implicit insult, it will depend on attitude of speaker to non-Jews.


    Ask your parents and grandparents what the word “bydlo” really signifies.

     

    I'm writing this for others who might be interested in the topic.

    Word enters Russian from Polish,"cattle".

    In Russian, it is used as an insult from around 1860s, as derogatory insult of the lower classes.

    As an insult, this term for cattle be seen used from the second half of 19th century (1860s-1870s) in writers such as Gleb Uspensky, Tsensky, Krestovsky, Nikolai Leskov, Aleksey Pisemsky, etc.

    In their usage of cattle, can be seen from context the connotations of "group thinking", "vulgarity", etc.

    But when they were using it from the late 19th century, it would have been more fresh and less cliche, than today


    The admiral never said that Kant was a traitor to Russia. Specifically, he said that Kant “betrayed his homeland”. Kant’s homeland wasn’t Russia
     
    You are in some kind of competition with yourself to be wrong in every detail

    Admiral says Kant betrays his motherland, humiliates himself, and begs on the knees for a university position.

    He's talking Kant's attempt to become professor and subsequent appointment by Kingdom of Prussia. This years after town was in Russian Empire (only 4 years - 1758-62).

    There's no possible way Kant betrayed Germany/Prussia - but if you think he is Russian (as this illiterate admiral), then you would see Kant as betraying his motherland when he takes up a position with the Kingdom of Prussia.


    Kant did, indeed, write nonsense

     

    Because you are too stupid to understand something, does not mean it is "nonsense", although may will appear as such to you.

    Learn some basic literacy and critical thinking before throwing around Jewish racist insults.

     

    Where are "Jewish racial insults"?

    P.S. Why is that the most toxic and arrogant Jews are always the dumbest? Rest assured, if some putz is screeching about ‘cattle’, ‘subhumans’ and Jewish racial supremacy, then he’s an 80-IQ retard in real life.

     

    Who is "screeching" Jewish racial supremacy?

    There is indication again, of some genuine mental illness in your comment.


    This admiral’s job has nothing to do with philosophy or history, and yet he seems to know much more about Kant’s biography that you do.

     

    Admiral thinks Kant was Russian. He knows not just less about Kant than me, but he doesn't even understand the nationality of the greatest German philosopher.

    Where are “Jewish racial insults”?

    Like I said: ask your parents or your grandparents. They will enlighten you. Also they will explain to you how the word “bydlo” came about, why it’s wide-spread in Russia and why 90% of the time used by Jews, not Russians.

    Admiral says Kant betrays his motherland, humiliates himself, and begs on the knees for a university position.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigsberg#Russian_Empire

    Konigsberg was at one time conquered by Elizabeth I and annexed to Russia.

    Kant wrote a letter to her, professing ‘undying loyalty’ and begging for a job. (She didn’t answer.)

    The admiral is referring to this incident, when Kant tried to turn coats and enter into Russian service, begging for a job. Look it up. Presumably you’re literate?

    Admiral thinks Kant was Russian.

    Of course not. Read his damn quote again. Unlike you, he isn’t some 80-IQ blowhard who can only parrot Jewish insults and hokhmes without even understanding them. He actually seems to know Kant’s biography and read some of his writings. (And he’s right, shit like the ‘categorical imperative’ is worthless and vile, crowleyism couched in obscurantist flim-flam, and Kant’s attempt to become a Russian subject to get another dude’s university chair is very bad character.)

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    why it’s wide-spread in Russia and why 90% of the time used by Jews, not Russians.

     

    From these comments, you evidently don't speak the language - so purpose of the argument is quite surreal. It feels like you are trying to prove to me you don't know simple things.

    This language is rude, but popular in an equally distributed way (e.g. football hooligans calling fans of the opposing team this, while the other side returns the insult, without any sense of irony).

    No relationship of such common insults to Jews (for people who don't know, Jews in Russia are not very common - only something like 1 in 150 people are Jews).

    Like I said: ask your parents or your grandparents. They will enlighten you. Also they will explain to you how the word “bydlo” came about,

     

    This is where I can copypaste.

    I’m writing this for others who might be interested in the topic.

    Word enters Russian in this (insulting) context from Polish,”cattle”.

    In Russian, it is used as an insult from around 1860s, as a derogatory insult of the lower classes.

    As an insult, this term for cattle be seen used from the second half of 19th century (1860s-1870s) in writers such as Gleb Uspensky, Tsensky, Krestovsky, Nikolai Leskov, Aleksey Pisemsky, etc.

    In their usage of cattle, can be seen from context the connotations of “group thinking”, “vulgarity”, etc.

    But when they were using it from the late 19th century, it would have been more fresh and less cliche, than today

    -

    Krestovsky is using it already in 1860s with the exactly the same as modern connotations and context.
  335. Anon[599] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions. It’s not a statement of “actual physics”, but of extent to which our knowledge can ever access it.
     
    This is trivial. Here is where he is dated:

    * he, of course, did not know about ways of cognition of other beings. For instance, it is scientifically established that rattlesnakes & frogs perceive the world "out there" in a different way. They all have their own cognitive "spaces" (it is impossible for any living being to envision anything without "space". Even Dante's immortal souls live in a sort of imagined hyper-space, since their situation is described as "beings" in "worlds", i.e. spaces, never mind its dimensions. Even "time" in Dante's worlds does exist, because one can, hypothetically, measure processes between his imagined events, however weird they may be). So, "space"- as "world outside of a being" & "time"- as duration of process- are universals of any cognition of any being, real or imaginary. Kant insisted that our 3-dimensional Euclidean space & conventional clock-time were human universals of cognition. But, they are universals of our perception- which is trivial, it was evident for everyone & anyone, including Papuans & Aborigines - while our cognition has gone beyond it with Einsteinian revolution. It doesn't matter what we perceive in our ordinary waking consciousness; what matters is that we can not only imagine, but even construct multidimensional realities beyond 3 dimensions & measure what "really" happens, irrespective of our common-sense perception apparatus.

    * as for causality, it is mostly human (although many primates have rudiments of before>after, therefore cause>effect way of relating to world). Then again, quantum mechanics in various interpretations (Bohr, Heisenberg, Bohm, Everett, De Witt, Feynman,..) has dispensed with common-sense approach to reality & established new ways of describing the world, out-there & in-here (including probabilities & many worlds). Of course we still, in our everyday lives, perceive as we have always done, but our knowing of the world has been vastly enlarged.

    In short, I don't see how this rather trivial things re our ordinary waking consciousness in relation to world "out there" (space, time, causality,..) are much relevant either with regard to scientific knowledge of the world (relativity, quantum physics,..), and let alone quasi supra-rational intuitive insights in the world (mystics of all times).

    It doesn’t matter what we perceive in our ordinary waking consciousness; what matters is that we can not only imagine, but even construct multidimensional realities beyond 3 dimensions & measure what “really” happens, irrespective of our common-sense perception apparatus.

    Bosh. We could and did always imagine what was “outside time”– that is also “trivial”. But if a philosophical argument is not based on what is “trivial” it is based on what is controversial, and that is a less fair basis. Though I’m not certain of the value of the structure Kant built.

  336. Russian stocks rally as US considers removing sanctions on Rusal company. But any softening Russia-related sanctions requires approval of Congress, so US Treasury Department is writing a letter to Mitch McConnell to see if he is ok with it.

  337. @reiner Tor
    Hungary is under serious pressure to increase defense spending. Since Orbán is constantly under pressure because of everything he does, he can ill afford to resist this pressure. Especially since apparently he's using defense spending to appease his powerful western partners, which is to say, mostly the Germans and the French, but probably the Americans will follow, too.

    By the way, without looking it up, I'm pretty sure you seriously overestimate the cost of American fighter jets. The F-35 currently costs less than $100MM, so I don't think the F-16 could cost that much. Maybe the new proposed version of the F-15, which would thus make little economic sense, so unlikely to go into production. The existing versions of F-15 must be cheaper, too.

    US sells its weapons to allies at the price way above production costs. Slovakia recently ordered 14 F16 at the cost of $1,3 billion.

    https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/riat/2018/07/11/slovakia-selects-f-16-over-gripen-for-new-fighter/

    US “Patriot” air-defence system goes for over $10 billion, which is fucking insane, especially since it doesn’t even work!

    https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/12/06/poland-surprised-by-high-price-tag-for-its-long-awaited-patriot-purchase/

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The Poles bought some strange configuration, Romania spent significantly less. And Hungary is a significantly smaller country than either Romania or Poland, so we'd need fewer batteries and missiles.

    https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/11/30/its-official-romania-signs-deal-to-bu-us-missile-defense-system/

    These procurements are also spread over many years, so you don't have to compare them to one year's budget (which, as I said, will be easily doubled - it's not very difficult to double from 1% of GDP, and GDP will likely grow, too), for example the delivery of the new Leopard tanks will start sometime in 2020 or 2021. They have to be produced first, and we don't have to pay the whole amount all at once in advance.

    I don't know what the Slovak F-16 deal contains (maybe it includes weapons and similar items), though Gripens are usually cheaper. But even if we're talking like 1.5 billion here, it's not an impossibility. A more logical course would be to just buy more Gripens.

    All this discussion doesn't matter much. After a few easy and victorious battles, our Leopard2A7+ Panzer will be rolling on Moscow's streets in the victory parade. (There's a distinct possibility that our glorious leaders have only arranged things for the parade. When they first bought the Gripens in the early 2000s, they forgot to buy the weapons for them, so for a while they had no air-to-air missiles, nor ground attack capabilities. But the victory parade will be glorious anyway, I can assure you! You can watch it in Moscow!)
    , @Dmitry

    . Slovakia recently ordered 14 F16 at the cost of $1,3 billion.
     
    I guess the higher price also includes some regular servicing package, training programs, etc.

    That's how there is often a wild difference between reported unit costs and then the report of the price in the sale of the total package for countries.

    , @Martin Rapavý
    Actually, you are wrong; it is 1.589 milliard (on the long scale / billion on the short scale) €:
    https://www.webnoviny.sk/nove-stihacky-f-16-budu-mat-servis-iba-na-dva-roky-ministerstvo-chce-oprav-zapojit-slovakov/ .

    This is already a huge scandal, but it happened in Slovakia. The Slovaks are a meek nation; Slovaks they never really revolt, unless they are paid for it.

    And with a service package for only two years, which is just about until the next election, by the way.

    The Prime Minister even said that it was completely transparent because the U.S.A. was involved.
    You know, the Prime Minister who is apparently paid for smiling into the camera, as that is the only thing that he knows. He is rumored to be a gay. He is totally incompetent, but the reason he has gotten to such a high position is because he had always been promoted before his shit hit the fan.

    (Previously, he was a Deputy Prime Minister for investment and informatization; when a vulnerability of the chip in the Slovak electronic identity cards was discovered, by which the identity certificates could have been forged; Pellegrini's office was notified, but he did not do anything in the following 4 months, then the vulnerability was publicly disclosed, but even then he was publicly denying that it was a problem for at least 2 weeks or so, until someone finally got to him and explained to him in simple terms what a huge problem it was.)

    In fact, the whole was hastily smuggled it, shockingly overpriced and kept under much secrecy until the very end, as if it had been some covert operation.

    The previous purchase of helicopters was also hugely overpriced and the standard public procurement procedures was skirted, too, by concluding this daylight robbery as an intergovernmental agreement, so that it could not be examined, challenged and possibly cancelled by the public procurement office.

    We do not need more overpriced weapons, especially not from Washington, which is known to pose a security risk and a threat to our sovereignty by imposing its sanctions at will even on its allies (think of Iran as a prime example).
  338. @Swarthy Greek
    The so called Makedonski have no relation whatsoever with the ancient Macedonians. The Kingdom of Macedonia's original heartland was the Macedonian plain and the Saronic gulf. Both areas were still majority Greek by the 20th century. "Macedonia" in Ottoman times didn't designate historic Macedonia but the Macedonian Sanjak. The Macedonian Sanjak en-globed many inland regions that weren't part of historic Macedonia and were populated by southern Slavs. The so called makedonski claim that they are entitled to all of Greek Macedonia due to the fact that the region that the ottomans called Macedonia had a Slavic plurality. The Vardar region which comprises modern day FYROM's territory was part of Paeonia. The Paeonians were a non Greek people (probably Thracian )that were enemies of Macedonia and were eventually conquered by Philip II. The genetic ancestry of modern day Slavic "Macedonians" is thus Slavic and Balkanoid but probably devoid of greek admixture due to the fact that Greeks never inhabited the region.

    You know who I blame for the current mess in the Balkans? I actually blame the brothers Serbs. They made the colossal stupidity of teaming up with the Greeks in the Balkan wars and stabbing their brothers Bulgarians in the back. The stupidest thing that any Slavic nation has ever done.

    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.

    My message to the brothers Serbs: ditch the Greeks – the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution. The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance.

    Despite all the grievances that Bulgarians have against the Serbs – they still respect them, where the Greeks only look for whom they can use next. Serbia tried to create Yugoslavia with the “brothers” Croats, that never worked out with those back-stabbers. Never mind the same language, Bulgarian and Serbian languages are close enough, they can understand each other. Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans. Don’t let the argument between 2 brothers benefit a useless 3rd party.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson


    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.
     
    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation


    Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans.
     
    Like winning the Special Olympics
    , @DFH

    the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution
     
    Is placing Greek contributions to the world against Serb ones really something you want to start?
    , @Rattus Norwegius
    "The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance."
    That alliance would have been gold if it had been solid in the 20th century. Many opportunities have been lost already. Kosovo, Macedonia, Thrace, etc.
    , @Epigon
    Serbs didn’t team with Greeks.
    Serbs didn’t even decide for themselves in any of the wars, as evidenced by London conference drawing the 1912-1913 war outcome,
    or Versailles victors dictating/imposing the disgusting Yugoslavia,
    or Great powers calling up 1878 Berlin congress to draw borders in the Balkans and 1908 award of Bosnia&Herzegovina to Austro-Hungary.

    Serbs were a sabot thrown into the gears of German/Continental hegemony machine, and expended carelessly after being manipulated by coups and revolutions controlled from the well-known power centres.

  339. @Beckow

    ...Both the Slovaks and the Romanians were prepared to give up ethnically Hungarian areas
     
    That is theoretically true, but in practise the precise borders were going to be an unsolvable issue. The side that has the upper hand always overreaches (it is same elsewhere like Ukr-Polish border or Polish-German). Horthy would not last in 1938 if he was reasonable, there was euphoria, he had to go along.

    In WWII, there were collaborating states (Hungary, Romania, Croatia, Slovakia, Western Ukraine, Baltic states, Finland, Bulgaria, even Austria) and there were completely suppressed states (Poland, Czech, Serbia, Belarus). It was a no-win situation, Germans were too dominant and this was the 'lebesnraum'. Even if people didn't quite believe in '1000 year reich', most thought that it would last much longer.

    Hungary's big problem is that they are never able to read the geography correctly. Instead of living with the realities of Carpathian basin, they repeatedly dream big. Horthy was swept by it too.

    Hungary’s big problem is that they are never able to read the geography correctly. Instead of living with the realities of Carpathian basin, they repeatedly dream big. Horthy was swept by it too.

    He was a Hungarian based admiral, who (if I’m not mistaken) kept that title after the end of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    What you say about the Hungarians has been said of the Serbs as well. At issue, is being regionally stronger than some of your neighbors, while not being a major world power.

    • LOL: Thorfinnsson
  340. @Cyrano
    You know who I blame for the current mess in the Balkans? I actually blame the brothers Serbs. They made the colossal stupidity of teaming up with the Greeks in the Balkan wars and stabbing their brothers Bulgarians in the back. The stupidest thing that any Slavic nation has ever done.

    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.

    My message to the brothers Serbs: ditch the Greeks – the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution. The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance.

    Despite all the grievances that Bulgarians have against the Serbs – they still respect them, where the Greeks only look for whom they can use next. Serbia tried to create Yugoslavia with the “brothers” Croats, that never worked out with those back-stabbers. Never mind the same language, Bulgarian and Serbian languages are close enough, they can understand each other. Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans. Don’t let the argument between 2 brothers benefit a useless 3rd party.

    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.

    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation

    Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans.

    Like winning the Special Olympics

    • Agree: Swarthy Greek
    • Replies: @Cyrano

    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation
     
    How? By publishing an article in Times?

    If you like the Greeks so much, why don't you form an alliance with them. Then maybe you can go greek on each other.
    , @LH

    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation

     

    It was Russia, by supporting various local bandits toward the end of 18th century. But they envisioned Greek liberation slightly differently than the British.
  341. @Philip Owen
    Furthermore, the Little and Great designations relate to distance from Rome/Byzantium. Little Russia, Great Russia, same for Poland as observed. Asia Minor is a well-known case.

    LOL

    Philip is always here when you need a good laugh. Turkey will be the first emerging market that will enter a recession. The country’s economic growth for the last 15 years was due to a construction boom enabled by low interest rates. As soon as rates go up Turkey will go bankrupt.

  342. @Thorfinnsson


    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.
     
    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation


    Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans.
     
    Like winning the Special Olympics

    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation

    How? By publishing an article in Times?

    If you like the Greeks so much, why don’t you form an alliance with them. Then maybe you can go greek on each other.

    • Replies: @DFH

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_War_of_Independence#Change_of_stance
     

    Go in, my dear Ned, and smash these damned Turks.’
     
  343. @Cyrano

    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation
     
    How? By publishing an article in Times?

    If you like the Greeks so much, why don't you form an alliance with them. Then maybe you can go greek on each other.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_War_of_Independence#Change_of_stance

    Go in, my dear Ned, and smash these damned Turks.’

    • Replies: @Anon
    Metternich makes good points.
  344. @Cyrano
    You know who I blame for the current mess in the Balkans? I actually blame the brothers Serbs. They made the colossal stupidity of teaming up with the Greeks in the Balkan wars and stabbing their brothers Bulgarians in the back. The stupidest thing that any Slavic nation has ever done.

    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.

    My message to the brothers Serbs: ditch the Greeks – the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution. The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance.

    Despite all the grievances that Bulgarians have against the Serbs – they still respect them, where the Greeks only look for whom they can use next. Serbia tried to create Yugoslavia with the “brothers” Croats, that never worked out with those back-stabbers. Never mind the same language, Bulgarian and Serbian languages are close enough, they can understand each other. Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans. Don’t let the argument between 2 brothers benefit a useless 3rd party.

    the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution

    Is placing Greek contributions to the world against Serb ones really something you want to start?

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    I think it’s obvious Cyrano is either a moron or a troll. Either way he’s not worth debating.
    , @Rattus Norwegius
    Greeks have existed for a longer timespan than Serbs. Perhaps comparing Greek and Serbian contributions since 1000 AD would be more appropriate.
    , @Epigon
    Why are you trying to insult a Bulgarian by ridiculing Serbs?
    , @Cyrano
    Yes I do. What has Greece ever contributed to this world except perversion? They even painted it on their stupid vases, man having sex with animals, homosexuality and so on.

    This is how smart the Greeks are: Up until the 20 century, they used to do each other - the rationale being that they wanted to marry virgins. Never mind that when the time came to marry those virgins, they were already f**gots. The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much. Go debate with someone similarly brain dead as you.

  345. @DFH

    the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution
     
    Is placing Greek contributions to the world against Serb ones really something you want to start?

    I think it’s obvious Cyrano is either a moron or a troll. Either way he’s not worth debating.

    • Agree: AP
  346. @DFH

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_War_of_Independence#Change_of_stance
     

    Go in, my dear Ned, and smash these damned Turks.’
     

    Metternich makes good points.

  347. @Cyrano
    You know who I blame for the current mess in the Balkans? I actually blame the brothers Serbs. They made the colossal stupidity of teaming up with the Greeks in the Balkan wars and stabbing their brothers Bulgarians in the back. The stupidest thing that any Slavic nation has ever done.

    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.

    My message to the brothers Serbs: ditch the Greeks – the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution. The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance.

    Despite all the grievances that Bulgarians have against the Serbs – they still respect them, where the Greeks only look for whom they can use next. Serbia tried to create Yugoslavia with the “brothers” Croats, that never worked out with those back-stabbers. Never mind the same language, Bulgarian and Serbian languages are close enough, they can understand each other. Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans. Don’t let the argument between 2 brothers benefit a useless 3rd party.

    “The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance.”
    That alliance would have been gold if it had been solid in the 20th century. Many opportunities have been lost already. Kosovo, Macedonia, Thrace, etc.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    You are one smart Scandinavian. Unlike that Thorfinson character who thinks that everything that comes from US is gold. That's why Scandinavia is going to multiculturalize itself to death.
  348. @DFH

    the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution
     
    Is placing Greek contributions to the world against Serb ones really something you want to start?

    Greeks have existed for a longer timespan than Serbs. Perhaps comparing Greek and Serbian contributions since 1000 AD would be more appropriate.

  349. @Felix Keverich
    US sells its weapons to allies at the price way above production costs. Slovakia recently ordered 14 F16 at the cost of $1,3 billion.

    https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/riat/2018/07/11/slovakia-selects-f-16-over-gripen-for-new-fighter/

    US "Patriot" air-defence system goes for over $10 billion, which is fucking insane, especially since it doesn't even work!

    https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/12/06/poland-surprised-by-high-price-tag-for-its-long-awaited-patriot-purchase/

    The Poles bought some strange configuration, Romania spent significantly less. And Hungary is a significantly smaller country than either Romania or Poland, so we’d need fewer batteries and missiles.

    https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/11/30/its-official-romania-signs-deal-to-bu-us-missile-defense-system/

    These procurements are also spread over many years, so you don’t have to compare them to one year’s budget (which, as I said, will be easily doubled – it’s not very difficult to double from 1% of GDP, and GDP will likely grow, too), for example the delivery of the new Leopard tanks will start sometime in 2020 or 2021. They have to be produced first, and we don’t have to pay the whole amount all at once in advance.

    I don’t know what the Slovak F-16 deal contains (maybe it includes weapons and similar items), though Gripens are usually cheaper. But even if we’re talking like 1.5 billion here, it’s not an impossibility. A more logical course would be to just buy more Gripens.

    All this discussion doesn’t matter much. After a few easy and victorious battles, our Leopard2A7+ Panzer will be rolling on Moscow’s streets in the victory parade. (There’s a distinct possibility that our glorious leaders have only arranged things for the parade. When they first bought the Gripens in the early 2000s, they forgot to buy the weapons for them, so for a while they had no air-to-air missiles, nor ground attack capabilities. But the victory parade will be glorious anyway, I can assure you! You can watch it in Moscow!)

  350. @Beckow

    ...You completely missed the point of the comparison
     
    Intentionally. What I said about India cannot be said often enough...

    (Or am I again in your feverish mind 'lying'?)

    You alternate between making mistakes, missing points, and lying.

  351. @Dmitry
    I think the most insulting one is "sheeple". But you also need to combine with some concept of low class and swinish connotations.

    The funniest internet insults I've read here was from our friend Gerard (whatever he is calling AP every week).

    The funniest internet insults I’ve read here was from our friend Gerard (whatever he is calling AP every week).

    I wonder whether my internet stalker is an anti-Russian troll, or sincere.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    If you ignore some of Gerard's angry insulting language, he is actually a very cultured man.
  352. Perhaps it is ever the fate of small countries to be swallowed up by empires. How long did it take certain former Soviet republics to join NATO? They know they can’t really exist as tiny, completely independent nations.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    NATO is not an empire.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    This is why I hate the UN, WTO, etc.

    Small countries should not even permitted the fiction of independence unless they're prepared to go full Best Korea.
  353. @Rattus Norwegius
    "The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance."
    That alliance would have been gold if it had been solid in the 20th century. Many opportunities have been lost already. Kosovo, Macedonia, Thrace, etc.

    You are one smart Scandinavian. Unlike that Thorfinson character who thinks that everything that comes from US is gold. That’s why Scandinavia is going to multiculturalize itself to death.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    You are one smart Scandinavian. Unlike that Thorfinson character who thinks that everything that comes from US is gold. That’s why Scandinavia is going to multiculturalize itself to death.
     
    Of course Thorfinnson thinks that, he is an American, albeit of Swedish descent.
  354. @DFH

    the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution
     
    Is placing Greek contributions to the world against Serb ones really something you want to start?

    Why are you trying to insult a Bulgarian by ridiculing Serbs?

  355. @DFH

    the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution
     
    Is placing Greek contributions to the world against Serb ones really something you want to start?

    Yes I do. What has Greece ever contributed to this world except perversion? They even painted it on their stupid vases, man having sex with animals, homosexuality and so on.

    This is how smart the Greeks are: Up until the 20 century, they used to do each other – the rationale being that they wanted to marry virgins. Never mind that when the time came to marry those virgins, they were already f**gots. The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much. Go debate with someone similarly brain dead as you.

    • Replies: @DFH

    The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much
     
    Just when I thought that I had seen every variety of anti-Angloism
    , @Reg Cæsar

    The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos...
     
    To sell tickets to see the Elgin marbles?

    Heinrich Schliemann wasn't an "Anglo". Hell, nobody is an "Anglo".

    The word is Angle.

    Take a flight on Anthony Burgess's Loftangle:



    https://i.pinimg.com/474x/9b/8c/e1/9b8ce1272c386b2f2b9753e41087ebb5--virgin-atlantic-cricket.jpg



    https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BDTK17/british-airways-tail-fins-BDTK17.jpg
    , @Gerard2

    Yes I do. What has Greece ever contributed to this world except perversion? They even painted it on their stupid vases, man having sex with animals, homosexuality and so on.

    This is how smart the Greeks are: Up until the 20 century, they used to do each other – the rationale being that they wanted to marry virgins. Never mind that when the time came to marry those virgins, they were already f**gots. The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much. Go debate with someone similarly brain dead as you.

     

    I don't agree 100% with your comment......but your post is the very essence of intelligence. Fantastically put together and well substantiated
  356. @Cyrano
    You know who I blame for the current mess in the Balkans? I actually blame the brothers Serbs. They made the colossal stupidity of teaming up with the Greeks in the Balkan wars and stabbing their brothers Bulgarians in the back. The stupidest thing that any Slavic nation has ever done.

    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.

    My message to the brothers Serbs: ditch the Greeks – the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution. The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance.

    Despite all the grievances that Bulgarians have against the Serbs – they still respect them, where the Greeks only look for whom they can use next. Serbia tried to create Yugoslavia with the “brothers” Croats, that never worked out with those back-stabbers. Never mind the same language, Bulgarian and Serbian languages are close enough, they can understand each other. Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans. Don’t let the argument between 2 brothers benefit a useless 3rd party.

    Serbs didn’t team with Greeks.
    Serbs didn’t even decide for themselves in any of the wars, as evidenced by London conference drawing the 1912-1913 war outcome,
    or Versailles victors dictating/imposing the disgusting Yugoslavia,
    or Great powers calling up 1878 Berlin congress to draw borders in the Balkans and 1908 award of Bosnia&Herzegovina to Austro-Hungary.

    Serbs were a sabot thrown into the gears of German/Continental hegemony machine, and expended carelessly after being manipulated by coups and revolutions controlled from the well-known power centres.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    The 'Yugoslav Committee' formed by South Slavs from Austria-Hungary during World War I aimed at joining the existing south Slavic nations in an independent state was created by Croats, only two Serbs from Bosnia-Herzegovina.
    Serbians were a 'sabot thrown' into the Austrian-Hungarian hegemony machine.
    Germany was less enthusiastic to get into the morass of Balkanic policies. Bismarck remained famous for his pronouncements: "The Balkans “were not worth the bones of a Pomeranian grenadier.”, because, as the real-politician that he was, he was aware that: “One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans (1888)”. Bismarck was actually warning Austria not to go to war with Russia over the Balkans.
    Germany made the foolish thing not to heed the advise of Bismarck.
  357. @Thea
    Perhaps it is ever the fate of small countries to be swallowed up by empires. How long did it take certain former Soviet republics to join NATO? They know they can’t really exist as tiny, completely independent nations.

    NATO is not an empire.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Neither was the Delian league.
  358. @Dacian Soros
    'Sas' is not an English word. Iohannis is a Saxon. Saxons are the Protestant variants of German pest.

    Catholic Swabians are equally common (or rather sparse, these day). The former royal family was Swabian.

    A smaller populations of Germs, this time migrating from Russia, became Romanian citizens when we acquired Dobruja. Dobruja changed hands a few times, so it's unclear to me whether these interlopers were even Christians.

    Today, the German infection is, in a sense, worse than under von Mackensen or Hauffe. Everywhere you look there's a flag of EUSSR, but Romania is not in Schengen. The criterion for accession to the common customs area was a secure the border. So, for twelve years, we paid billions to EADS (French-German) for electronic border protection. Twelve years later, the border is still good enough for Manfred Weber. Also today, I read on Deutsche Welle that "The hideous face of communism is alive and well in Romania". WTF, we gave you billions, how much more do you want?

    Btw, the most common ancestry in US is German. At least Brits come with the guns, and the French usually leave. But Germans are white Gyppos.

    Sadly, there’s no way that the most common ancestry in the USA is still German. It would likely be Mexican.

    German may still be the most common WHITE EUROPEAN ancestry in the US.

  359. @Cyrano
    You are one smart Scandinavian. Unlike that Thorfinson character who thinks that everything that comes from US is gold. That's why Scandinavia is going to multiculturalize itself to death.

    You are one smart Scandinavian. Unlike that Thorfinson character who thinks that everything that comes from US is gold. That’s why Scandinavia is going to multiculturalize itself to death.

    Of course Thorfinnson thinks that, he is an American, albeit of Swedish descent.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    But I don't think that.

    I love my country, but let's not beat around the bush: America is the main center of evil in the world.
  360. @Art Deco
    NATO is not an empire.

    Neither was the Delian league.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Nor the Roman Republic.
    It only had military allies, “liberated” regions, intervened in foreign and civil wars.
    And stayed.
  361. @Anon
    Neither was the Delian league.

    Nor the Roman Republic.
    It only had military allies, “liberated” regions, intervened in foreign and civil wars.
    And stayed.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    American troops in Germany number about 34,000. That would suffice to occupy the Ruhr complex if the troop force was arrayed as an occupying army and the locals were recalcitrant. There are about 12,000 troops in Italy. That would do to occupy Turin and Genoa. There are about 8,500 American troops in Britain, adequate to occupy Leeds. There are about 3,200 American troops in Spain, enough to occupy Bilbao. There's your empire.
  362. @Spisarevski

    We already have a dozen Gripen fighter jets
     
    Really jealous of you, we seem to be going for the F-16s for the air force rearmament, which are an inferior offer for the money in every way.

    We’ll probably buy some American artillery pieces and air defense systems.
     
    Actually not so jealous anymore, the F-16s may be terribly overpriced but they are still at least somewhat useful, unlike American air defense or antediluvian contraptions like the Paladin howitzers.

    American air defense systems have a bad reputation here at Unz, but they are actually not worthless. It’s not like the Russian S-400 (S-300 PMU3, it was renamed for marketing reasons) has proved itself in battle. The Patriot was originally designed against aircraft, not ballistic missiles, and it’s questionable if anything works well against ballistic missiles. Also, the Americans usually keep the names, while the Russians rename everything after a few modifications, so while you are talking about “the” Patriot (in reality three generations of the system), after a while the most modern of the various S-300 versions was renamed the S-400. The difference between the S-300 PM2 and the PMU3 (a.k.a. S-400) is probably smaller than the difference between the PM2 and the early versions of the S-300. The Americans have the F-16 Block 70, while the latest version of the Su-27 is the Su-35. To be sure, the Su-35 is quite different from the Su-30 or earlier Su-27 variants, but the same is true of the F-16 Block 70 and some early F-16A.

    The howitzer we’ll buy (according to rumors) is the M777, a towed artillery piece. It’s probably as good as any, maybe overpriced (as American weapons often are).

  363. @Spisarevski

    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in… Russian shops.
     
    Let me guess, "Berezka"? :) We have the same chain here too. I actually bought a bottle of Saperavi Kvevri from there once and wasn't too impressed, and one of these days I'll try the Moldovan and the Armenian brandy they offer too, if I can force myself to buy something different than Courvoisier once for a change.
    Personally my favorite thing about Georgia is their alphabet, aesthetic as fuck.

    Yes, Berezka.
    Try the Moldovan brandy.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Yes, Berezka.
     
    BBQ Berezka?
  364. @Cyrano
    Yes I do. What has Greece ever contributed to this world except perversion? They even painted it on their stupid vases, man having sex with animals, homosexuality and so on.

    This is how smart the Greeks are: Up until the 20 century, they used to do each other - the rationale being that they wanted to marry virgins. Never mind that when the time came to marry those virgins, they were already f**gots. The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much. Go debate with someone similarly brain dead as you.

    The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much

    Just when I thought that I had seen every variety of anti-Angloism

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Just when I thought that I had seen every variety of anti-Angloism
     
    Calling that bit of thoughtless, agitated blather a "variety" is something of stretch. Anti-Angloism is typically tendentious and embittered, but there is generally at least an attempt at a thoughtful argument (even if by the time it becomes an internet comment, the argument has been reduced to a mere insult).
  365. @reiner Tor

    Russians say Tshicago, when they have the proper initial consonant in their own language
     
    Hungarians, too, and we also have the proper initial consonant in our own language. It’s just custom. It also sounds idiotic when someone wants to pronounce it too close to the English pronunciation while speaking Hungarian, it smacks of snobbery.

    Hungarians, too, and we also have the proper initial consonant in our own language. It’s just custom. It also sounds idiotic when someone wants to pronounce it too close to the English pronunciation while speaking Hungarian, it smacks of snobbery.

    But don’t Hungarians always put a strong stress on the first syllable, like their distant Finnish cousins, and Czech and Slovak neighbors? That would sound doubly weird.

  366. @Seraphim
    Yes, Berezka.
    Try the Moldovan brandy.

    Yes, Berezka.

    BBQ Berezka?

  367. Ergo for Czechia low-peddling its transition from the Czech Republic. Czechia is simply more accurate.

    “Czechia” is so ugly, they refuse to use it in their own language. So why should we use it in ours?

    You can’t even say that about “Belarus” and “Myanmar”.

    What was wrong with Bohemia and Moravia, very beautiful names?

    As for (the) Ukraine, it could be solved quite easily in English by going back to “Little Russia”.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    "As for (the) Ukraine, it could be solved quite easily in English by going back to “Little Russia”."

    Why? To please butt-hurt Russian nationalists?
    , @AnonFromTN
    Many Russians would object. The prevailing attitude is “thank goodness they are not brothers – we’d be ashamed to have brothers like that”.
  368. @Epigon
    Serbs didn’t team with Greeks.
    Serbs didn’t even decide for themselves in any of the wars, as evidenced by London conference drawing the 1912-1913 war outcome,
    or Versailles victors dictating/imposing the disgusting Yugoslavia,
    or Great powers calling up 1878 Berlin congress to draw borders in the Balkans and 1908 award of Bosnia&Herzegovina to Austro-Hungary.

    Serbs were a sabot thrown into the gears of German/Continental hegemony machine, and expended carelessly after being manipulated by coups and revolutions controlled from the well-known power centres.

    The ‘Yugoslav Committee’ formed by South Slavs from Austria-Hungary during World War I aimed at joining the existing south Slavic nations in an independent state was created by Croats, only two Serbs from Bosnia-Herzegovina.
    Serbians were a ‘sabot thrown’ into the Austrian-Hungarian hegemony machine.
    Germany was less enthusiastic to get into the morass of Balkanic policies. Bismarck remained famous for his pronouncements: “The Balkans “were not worth the bones of a Pomeranian grenadier.”, because, as the real-politician that he was, he was aware that: “One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans (1888)”. Bismarck was actually warning Austria not to go to war with Russia over the Balkans.
    Germany made the foolish thing not to heed the advise of Bismarck.

    • Replies: @DFH
    So which Serb was forcing the Kaiser and Bethmann-Hollweg to give a blank cheque to the Austrians?
  369. @Cyrano
    Yes I do. What has Greece ever contributed to this world except perversion? They even painted it on their stupid vases, man having sex with animals, homosexuality and so on.

    This is how smart the Greeks are: Up until the 20 century, they used to do each other - the rationale being that they wanted to marry virgins. Never mind that when the time came to marry those virgins, they were already f**gots. The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much. Go debate with someone similarly brain dead as you.

    The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos…

    To sell tickets to see the Elgin marbles?

    Heinrich Schliemann wasn’t an “Anglo”. Hell, nobody is an “Anglo”.

    The word is Angle.

    Take a flight on Anthony Burgess’s Loftangle:

    • Replies: @Cyrano

    The word is Angle.
     
    Is playing a flute you favourite pastime? Under what Angle do you usually perform your hobby?

    https://quipvid.com/watch/VU48MIgi

  370. @Seraphim
    The 'Yugoslav Committee' formed by South Slavs from Austria-Hungary during World War I aimed at joining the existing south Slavic nations in an independent state was created by Croats, only two Serbs from Bosnia-Herzegovina.
    Serbians were a 'sabot thrown' into the Austrian-Hungarian hegemony machine.
    Germany was less enthusiastic to get into the morass of Balkanic policies. Bismarck remained famous for his pronouncements: "The Balkans “were not worth the bones of a Pomeranian grenadier.”, because, as the real-politician that he was, he was aware that: “One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans (1888)”. Bismarck was actually warning Austria not to go to war with Russia over the Balkans.
    Germany made the foolish thing not to heed the advise of Bismarck.

    So which Serb was forcing the Kaiser and Bethmann-Hollweg to give a blank cheque to the Austrians?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    No one forced Germany, but Serbia's behavior was outrageous. The bombs and guns used that day against Franz Ferdinand and his wife (Franz Ferdinand's last words to his wife: "Sophie! Sophie! Don't die! Stay alive for our children!") came from Serbian state arsenals. The head of the Black Hand terrorist organization was also the head of Serbian military intelligence.

    The best way to explain this to modern people is to compare it to September 11...if Saddam Hussein had actually been the backer of Al Qaeda as W wanted people to believe.

    I've always had a low opinion of Balkanoid swine, but learning the real details of that fateful June 1914 day fills me with hatred for all the terrorist races south of the Danube.

    AP has made a a comment before that the House of Romanov was punished by God for going to war in support of regicide. Satisfying narrative though likely not true given that the Hapsburgs and Hohenzollerns, who went to war for righteous reasons, also lost their thrones.

    The Kaiser, incidentally, did more than practically anyone else that summer to try to stop the march to war. Certainly he did more than Edward Grey did (let alone the bloodthirsty Poincare). If German_reader is German_reading this comment, I have revised my opinion on the origins of the First World War since reading The Sleepwalkers. Germany is in fact innocent.

  371. @Cyrano
    Yes I do. What has Greece ever contributed to this world except perversion? They even painted it on their stupid vases, man having sex with animals, homosexuality and so on.

    This is how smart the Greeks are: Up until the 20 century, they used to do each other - the rationale being that they wanted to marry virgins. Never mind that when the time came to marry those virgins, they were already f**gots. The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much. Go debate with someone similarly brain dead as you.

    Yes I do. What has Greece ever contributed to this world except perversion? They even painted it on their stupid vases, man having sex with animals, homosexuality and so on.

    This is how smart the Greeks are: Up until the 20 century, they used to do each other – the rationale being that they wanted to marry virgins. Never mind that when the time came to marry those virgins, they were already f**gots. The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much. Go debate with someone similarly brain dead as you.

    I don’t agree 100% with your comment……but your post is the very essence of intelligence. Fantastically put together and well substantiated

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    Thanks my brother. I’ve said it once before and I’ll just repeat it: The Russians make me proud not only to be a Slav but a human being as well.

    If it wasn’t for the Russians, the degenerates from the west would have been able to prove by now that they are superior to the Slavs. Insignificant nations like mine wouldn’t be able to do anything to refute those claims. Neither would the designated but-kissers like Croats, Ukrainians, Polish and the other Slavic untermensch.

    Hitler might have been onto something when he said that the Slavs are untermensch. And then he met the Russians and he realized that his theory doesn’t apply to all Slavs, but only to those who want to be “western”.
  372. @Epigon
    Nor the Roman Republic.
    It only had military allies, “liberated” regions, intervened in foreign and civil wars.
    And stayed.

    American troops in Germany number about 34,000. That would suffice to occupy the Ruhr complex if the troop force was arrayed as an occupying army and the locals were recalcitrant. There are about 12,000 troops in Italy. That would do to occupy Turin and Genoa. There are about 8,500 American troops in Britain, adequate to occupy Leeds. There are about 3,200 American troops in Spain, enough to occupy Bilbao. There’s your empire.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    How many white soldiers and administrators did Britain have in India?

    Don't be intentionally dense.
  373. Syagrius says: