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So even after Corona is done genociding the boomers, we might still have a lingering problem.

Here’s one English language paper about this:

Fan, Caibin, Kai Li, Yanhong Ding, Wei Lu Lu, and Jianqing Wang. 2020. “ACE2 Expression in Kidney and Testis May Cause Kidney and Testis Damage After 2019-nCoV Infection.Urology. medRxiv.

In December 2019 and January 2020, novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) – infected pneumonia (NCIP) occurred in Wuhan, and has already posed a serious threat to public health. ACE2 (Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2) has been shown to be one of the major receptors that mediate the entry of 2019-nCoV into human cells, which also happens in severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS). Several researches have indicated that some patients have abnormal renal function or even kidney damage in addition to injury in respiratory system, and the related mechanism is unknown. This arouses our interest in whether coronavirus infection will affect the urinary and male reproductive systems. Here in this study, we used the online datasets to analyze ACE2 expression in different human organs. The results indicate that ACE2 highly expresses in renal tubular cells, Leydig cells and cells in seminiferous ducts in testis. Therefore, virus might directly bind to such ACE2 positive cells and damage the kidney and testicular tissue of patients. Our results indicate that renal function evaluation and special care should be performed in 2019-nCoV patients during clinical work, because of the kidney damage caused by virus and antiviral drugs with certain renal toxicity. In addition, due to the potential pathogenicity of the virus to testicular tissues, clinicians should pay attention to the risk of testicular lesions in patients during hospitalization and later clinical follow-up, especially the assessment and appropriate intervention in young patients’ fertility.

A friend who is fluent in Chinese claims to have dredged up quite a number of papers on chinaxiv.org and similar sites.

tl;dr: very little empirical data to work with, but there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence (coming from follow-ups with corona survivors in China) suggesting that male corona victims, even those considered ‘fully recovered’ and discharged by the Chinese medical system, exhibit symptoms of testicular damage culminating in permanent(?) infertility.

Not knowing Chinese to reading level, I can’t absolutely vouch for this assessment.

But if that is really the case, and with the most pessimistic estimates indicating that up to 70% of the world population could end up getting COVID-19, this may have a non-trivial effect on global fertility (which has already been in free-fall in the industrialized world since c.2015).

Might not be the absolute worst time to get your sperm frozen if you have the cash and it’s relevant to your life situation.

 
• Category: Science • Tags: China, Corona, Fertility 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. The possibility of male sterility by Corona-chan has been rumored for well over a month.

    Many blood pressure meds work by ACE inhibition. I believe infertility is a known side effect of these drugs, but is not much concerned with because most people on high blood pressure meds are older men who have already had their kids (or don’t plan on having them) and thus do not care about this.

    The shrieking and hollering next year about this ought to be truly epic.

  3. Do you think there will be any massive outbreak of corona virus in the Indian subcontinent?

    It seems like that all the conditions which are necessary for the virus to flourish (high-density population, poor public health, weak controls, etc) are in place. However, there hasn’t yet been much reporting yet of any massive outbreak. Perhaps it’s because they aren’t testing enough people?

  4. Children of Men timeline, perhaps?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  5. @Daniel Chieh

    Didn’t want to put in the main post, but yes, my tinfoil hat is tingling. There have been a lot of “powerful takes” about possible Corona conspiracies on this website from many different author,s including myself. That it was an accidental leak from the Wuhan CDC. That it was an American bioweapon. Mossad, etc. But something that kills off boomers (tilting politics left in the West, and removing the last obstacles to mass African immigration) while making young people infertile (cratering already low developed world fertility) sounds like the ultimate fantasy for the One World Government/population replacement/Georgia Guidestones “keep world population below 500 million” people.

    • Replies: @Michael Tomac
    , @Pericles
  6. songbird says:

    The testes are somewhat similar to the brain, in that there is a certain amount of segregation from the immune-system built-in. I wonder what side of the barrier these antigens are on.

    I also wonder if people interested in race-specific bioweapons would take note here, or maybe proteins in the testes are too conserved.

    The ultimate bioweapon, of course, would be one that turned men gay, but that would probably be too difficult to manage, after maturity. You’d need nanobots or something on that level.

  7. Ludwig says:

    There was a story about this a couple of weeks ago https://www.newsweek.com/chinese-scientists-coronavirus-male-fertility-1488235 commenting on the paper mentioned. A passage:

    However, Professor Allan Pacey, a leading expert in male fertility at the University of Sheffield in the U.K., emphasized the article is a “short discussion” paper which has not been peer-reviewed and is “highly theoretical.” It is intended to alert the medical and scientific community to the possible impact COVID-19 may have on the male reproductive system, he said.

    “At present it is somewhat premature to conclude from this study [that] COVID-19 will definitely affect male fertility, but it is useful that the authors have raised this concern so that researchers can in due course take a look at the fertility of those who were infected by COVID-19,” he said.

    On a different note, would be an interesting sci-fi/social commentary story if there was an infection that made a major fraction of people infertile and the consequences. Kind of like the Day of the Triffids (where a majority of people in Earth go blind due to radiation from an apparent meteor shower so that only a few sighted (who fortuitously missed the event for a variety of reasons) remain, in the midst of this monster plant invasion (the Triffids). Well written story once you accept the zany premise.

  8. @JohnnyWalker123

    Most people who die in India do not have the cause of death listed on their death certificate, even if thousands are dying in India from Coronavirus right now, no one will ever know.

    Would we even know something was up if the media wasn’t hyping this story so much?

  9. utu says:

    Do not despair. Incels to the rescue. Again the humanity will be saved by incels. Tonnes of dried sperm will be retrieved from the dirty bed linens left by incels which will be reconstituted and rejuvenated and then made available to billions of sperm-hungry women wandering on the planet earth after the Covid-19 Apocalypse. The future will belong to incels.

    • LOL: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
  10. utu says:

    Polish vodka and coronavirus

    Polish police limit some drink-driving tests due to coronavirus
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-poland-police/polish-police-limit-some-drink-driving-tests-due-to-coronavirus-idUSKBN20T202

    No more excise duty on spirits. Unexpected coronavirus outbreak effect
    https://www.money.pl/gospodarka/koniec-z-akcyza-na-spirytus-niespodziewany-efekt-epidemii-koronawirusa-6486094193845889a.html

    The Minister of Finance will issue a regulation exempting alcohol from excise duty on Monday, which will be intended for the production of biocides – informed the head of the Chancellery of the Prime Minister Michał Dworczyk.

    The produced liquid is expected to reach Polish schools by the end of next week.

    Vodka in Short Supply in Japan as Rubbing Alcohol Sells Out
    https://www.nippon.com/en/news/yjj2020022900475/vodka-in-short-supply-in-japan-as-rubbing-alcohol-sells-out.html

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
  11. This could lead to something like the dilemma of Gaysia in Chuck Palahniuk’s recent book “Adjustment Day”.

  12. I’m mildly drunk, but just for the record, this is all a bunch of bullshit.

  13. @Anatoly Karlin

    The Georgia Guidestone thing is…strange, to say the least. They have no idea who built it, or what organization gave the funds for it.
    It wouldn’t surprise me if they want population reduction, but it will probably be reduction in the Western, and possibly east Asian population. If the whole world, including America and Europe, end up resembling Brazil and Africa, it would be very easy to control and manipulate the population. I suspect that’s why the European Union is so intent on bringing in African and Arab immigrants; most of the anti-EU movements have been run by native Europeans. The immigrants and their descendants, not having a strong attachment to individual European countries such as France, Germany, ect are more willing to jump on board the pan-EU project, at least will much less opposition compared to native Europeans. The elites could try to replicate this on a large scale for the whole world. Just mix everyone up, distributing them to different locations across the globe, make them fight, divide, conquer, profit, and control the world population.

  14. mal says:

    Nah, young men make very poor targets for population control themed bioweapon. Even if there was only one young guy left with functional sperm, you could still make millions of children as long as you had females fit for breeding. Female reproductive capacity is the real bottleneck, men are not very relevant.

    If you wanted to kill a civilization this way, you would give women education, social power outside of the family structure, and disrupt their natural child caring instincts with attention gaining fetishes such as non profit volunteering and cats. This works better than any virus, but what non suicidal civilization would adopt this, right? 🙂

    That said, corona virus looks set to solve our pension and healthcare costs crisis quite nicely. If I were a Social Security or Medicare benefits administrator, I would be buying champagne and chocolate for my office for every day the virus spreads.

    • Agree: nickels
    • Replies: @SFG
    , @Toronto Russian
  15. @utu

    Doesn’t breeding more incels just kick the can down the road to next-gen population crash? Or maybe sperm collection reservoirs will be installed into their sex robots so that it can be retrieved and installed into the ejaculation-simulation mechanism of sex robots for the ladies. Our future might be weird, but it could still be fecund. VD rates would plummet too.

  16. @utu

    I was at my local Wal-Mart getting a few bottles of isopropyl alcohol a couple of days ago, having long used it for cleansing and sanitizing. The shelves were as full as usual. I also picked up some travel-sized mini spray bottles to carry with me filled with isopropyl. I was looking for masks in case they had any and a helpful employee mentioned that she had just stocked some the next aisle over, but some hoarder or profiteer had already bought all of them. Had I seen them I would think I would be justified in taking a few for myself out of their cart. I ended up getting a virus-proof furnace filter instead, planning to cut out a piece and glue the rim inside of a dust mask.

    I asked the stocker about the masks and she said someone must’ve grabbed them all, then said if I was looking for hand gel, it had been sold out for a week. I explained that isopropyl alcohol also works and showed her the mini bottles. She didn’t know about this amazing substitute technology, but must’ve spread the word because the next day all of the isopropyl was gone.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  17. yakushimaru says: • Website

    Can you see this image? Sorry I have no idea how to post a image. The image in my mind is creepy as hell, but right now it is tagged in Chinese media as a some feelgood kind of pic that shows the kindness of blah blah. 🙂

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
  18. Assuming Trump is not demented bubbling idiot as he appears to be, but far reaching and calculating person, just evil one, then it may explain his complete carelessnes about the fact that significant portion of his main voting block will be dead by November as there will be no any election at all:

    You know what solves it?” Trump asked, referring to Obamacare. “When the economy crashes, when the country goes to total hell and everything is a disaster — then you’ll have riots to go back to where we used to be when we were great.”

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fox-news-video-trump-disaster-maga_n_5c4a41d4e4b0287e5b893788?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS9yL0Nvcm9uYXZpcnVzL2NvbW1lbnRzL2ZlcjVtZy9raXJrbGFuZF93YV9ob3NwaXRhbF9hdF9jZW50ZXJfb2ZfY29yb25hdmlydXMv&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAALJA60yaLYqlYMeaYoeYGIz_UAqwORybOx7aBM4zR5D1Jd7TrhSMAFK3T5-cGHHPWCNEuMopd-1wl4hbHwnvpJGlhiAsIHz7jGIRb9p-qt1blQybuL4-SNVgR_KuiDSnnv60cuw6q5Y2H0zyQJGWwMGS78evmAtuRBA6xQNCCbZ

  19. dux.ie says:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200228125228.htm

    “Male-killing bacteria linked to butterfly color changes”

  20. @sudden death

    Flu vs Covid19 death rate by age per CDC:

    • Thanks: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    , @LondonBob
  21. dux.ie says:

    People with the gene variant ACE.II are more susceptible to COVID.19. But all of them are smiling.

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4646994

    rs4646994

    (I;I) homozygotes respond better to Viagra than (D;I) or (D;D) individuals, in a study of 100+ Caucasian men with erectile dysfunction. (OR 3.07, CI: 1.03 – 9.13, p=0.04). [PMID 12837457]

  22. @sudden death

    why does the Corona chart start with the age group 10-19? Does it mean there have still not been any children under the age of 10 who died because of the disease?

  23. @Erik Sieven

    Officially not, Chinese indeed did not report any children under the age of 10 who died because of the disease. Have some doubt about it, but the rest of the world also has not detected any such deaths yet, but I fear it may change.

  24. SFG says:
    @mal

    Population control. Educating women lowers the birth rate. Plenty of countries like China and India wanted to lower the birth rate to catch up with the West, and it worked, at least in China’s case.

    Of course, they also have no temptation to invite mass immigration. With something like a billion Chinese it’s less of an issue anyway.

    • Replies: @jbwilson24
    , @yakushimaru
  25. SFG says:

    I will say, I don’t usually post here because I have no special connection to Russia and no strong opinions about it, pro or con (Russia is America’s geopolitical rival, but so is China, and we’ve been poking them with manipulating their elections and pushing our sphere of influence to their border, so it’s not surprising they would strike back; also it’s fun to watch you guys poke the wokies)…

    …but Anatoly’s been right about this coronavirus thing way ahead of schedule. There’s a lot of weird stuff here on Unz (OK, Israel may drag America into wars but I don’t think they invented the coronavirus) but I think I ought to give Mr. Karlin a second look.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @reiner Tor
  26. Italian ICU doctor(?) Giuseppe Pattino reporting lately showing a younger population involved as if the elderly and weaker part of the population crashed early and now younger patients are starting to come to already exhausted hospitals:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESXYwPUXsAQpKaA?format=png&name=large

    https://twitter.com/critconcepts/status/1235632042802589698/photo/1

  27. @Erik Sieven

    Afaik, it has never killed anyone under 10. However, I have heard babies who tested positive so it can infect but with few to no symptoms.

  28. Spandrell says:

    Haven’t found anything recent on chinaxiv, so I’d appreciate some actual links

  29. @Erik Sieven

    I believe it is officially above 0 now. But I forget where I see it. I am pretty sure it is an official source.

    There is also a powerful anecdote case where a small kid died but I am not very sure if it is a made-up story.

    A plausible explanation is that kids are less socially active, somehow, I mean, little kids, so the initial numbers are low. It was winter vacation time. But then it was discovered that when the numbers of all other age groups were going down, the number of small kids was still going up for awhile longer, and a plausible explanation is that the kids cannot wear masks very well and when everyone stays inside, the difference in social activity pretty much disappears.

  30. The point made in this article are valid. However this only affects Chinese men. For us whites the effect is opposite, it makes the Johnson bigger. If you have a Chinese g/friend she will appreciate the fact that you got the disease.

  31. @yakushimaru

    Are you referring to this? I heard of it a few times from my APAC contacts.

    45 day old infant infected

    I believe the child is okay but it is tragic indeed.

    • Replies: @yakushimaru
  32. LondonBob says:
    @sudden death

    There might be as many as ten times the infections but they never get identified as tests are unreliable and they don’t get tested as they have no symptoms. This drops the mortality significantly.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  33. MEH 0910 says:
    @yakushimaru

    2001 A Space Odyssey – ending

    Sol Death Soylent Green

  34. GERMANIC PEOPLES ÜBER ALLES?

    Number of cases / fatalities / Serious or Critical condition

    Germany 717 / 0 / 9
    Switzerland 216/ 1 / 0
    Belgium 169 / 0 / 1
    UK 162 / 2 / 0
    Sweden 137 /0 / 0
    Norway 136 / 0 / 0
    Netherlands 128 / 1 / 1
    Austria 74 / 0 / 1
    Iceland 45 / 0 / 0
    Denmark 23 / 0 / 0
    Luxembourg 3 / 0 / 0

    TOTAL 1,810 / 4 / 12

    The 4 fatalities, by age:

    88 (UK) “underlying health conditions”
    86 (Netherlands)
    74 (Switzerland) – “pre-existing illness”, “high risk”
    70s (UK) “in and out of hospital” with “underlying health conditions”

  35. @for-the-record

    its funny that in any random statistic Austria will have almost always have the proportional same pattern like Germany.

  36. Pericles says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Georgia Guidestones, very interesting.

    The wikipedia article is revealingly odd.

    The Georgia Guidestones are [sic] a granite monument erected in 1980

    And

    In June 1979, a man using the pseudonym Robert C. Christian approached the Elberton Granite Finishing Company …

    Pretty much guaranteed that was no Christian. And as a point of order:

    The five-acre[2] (2 ha) land was apparently purchased by Christian on October 1, 1979,[3][4][non-primary source needed]

    Why does wikipedia want non-primary sources?

  37. Pericles says:
    @for-the-record

    Looks like Sweden and especially Norway are overperforming in number of Corona-chan lovers. Compare Sweden with the UK (6x population), Netherlands (2x population and much smaller), Denmark (1/2 the population but 1/6 the victims), etc. And Norway is just 1/2 the population of Sweden.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  38. Dmitry says:

    genociding the boomers

    The “ok boomer” fashion in the West, is one of the most degenerate parts of current Western culture – i.e. lack of respect for old people.

    Perhaps countries like China, Italy and Japan are more strict about quarantine against this virus (which kills mainly old people), because they still fortunately have a lot of respect for old people?

    • Agree: dfordoom
  39. Dmitry says:

    male corona victims, even those considered ‘fully recovered’ and discharged by the Chinese medical system, exhibit symptoms of testicular damage culminating in permanent(?) infertility

    Presumably, such damage would be only in people who had severe symptoms of the disease caused by the virus.

    Similarly, at the extreme, severely symptomatic patients will even need lung transplants, due to damage caused to their lungs.

    However, a patients with mild symptoms of the disease, or lack of symptoms, will not have any measurable damage to their lungs. Patients with mild symptom of the disease will presumably in the same way not have damage to testes or various other tissues and organs (that such viruses – or immune response to them – can damage).

  40. Dmitry says:
    @Pericles

    The danger for all these Northern European countries, is that summer weather is arriving up to 1-2 months later than in Southern Europe.

    We can assume that warm summer weather will significantly slow transmission of the virus. However, for Northern Europe, there is still 2-3 months of danger from now, where this can go out of control.

    On the positive side, presumably statist countries like Sweden will quarantine quite soon and effectively.

    • Replies: @joni
  41. joni says:
    @Dmitry

    The places with warm climates are being hit hardest. I guess people from northern climates are more solitary. Someone in one of these countries could make a killing if they could start up production of far-uvc lighting.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  42. LondonBob says:
    @joni

    Not true at all, Northern Italy, Iran and China are very cold at this time of the year. Thailand, Australia, HK and Singapore all had a lot of initial cases but no outbreak.

  43. LondonBob says:
    @for-the-record

    They aren’t even sure the first one died of coronavirus, she just had it when she died. One of the Jap cruise ship deaths was a British man living abroad, elderly of course.

  44. @Lockean Proviso

    IPA kills bacteria. No antibiotic cleansing agents kill viruses. The wiping process involved is useful nevertheless simply as mechancial removal.

    • Replies: @songbird
  45. @Dmitry

    As an older person, 68, I am sometimes taken aback by some excessive politeness shown on Russian public transport or elsewhere. In the UK, there is active disrespect for age. Something to do with American GI’s and the 50’s cult of youth I think.

    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  46. songbird says:
    @Philip Owen

    Should work on anything with a membrane, including coranaviruses and flu.

  47. Dreadilk says:

    Too much porn watching in this thread.

    Corona is nothing. Every day someone comes up with a new reason to hyperventilate. So now all of our dicks fell off, all the boomers died and we all have renal failure. What you going to come up with next.

    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  48. dfordoom says: • Website
    @LondonBob

    There might be as many as ten times the infections but they never get identified as tests are unreliable and they don’t get tested as they have no symptoms. This drops the mortality significantly.

    Yep. People always fall for graphs. This story includes graphs so it must be true. Graphs are Science! But if you can’t be sure that you have reliable data graphs are just meaningless pretty pictures.

  49. @SFG

    Stick around. This is overwhelmingly the most entertaining blog and cast of commentators in Unz.

    • Agree: reiner Tor, Denis
    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  50. @JohnnyWalker123

    “Do you think there will be any massive outbreak of corona virus in the Indian subcontinent?”

    God, let’s hope so. The less of those ugly, hairy, low IQ primitives spitting out hordes of broodlings, the better. If ever a region needed testis damage, it’s South Asia and Africa. Hell, we should sponsor feminism and a couple of Frankfurt Institutes in each country.

  51. @SFG

    “Population control. Educating women lowers the birth rate. ”

    Not always. I don’t have links handy, but studies on Moroccan and Paki women in the UK show that they tend to have 5 kids each, with ready access to education. Mexican women in the USA have slighter better education and a slightly higher birthrate than Mexican women back in Mexico.

    I have to believe that IQ is a factor, as well as cultural and religious influences.

    • Replies: @WHAT
  52. @yakushimaru

    A plausible explanation is that kids are less socially active, somehow, I mean, little kids, so the initial numbers are low.

    Oh wow. You must not have any kids or any relatives or friends with kids. Is the place where you live really that bad that it’s literally dying out?

    Anyways, if you have kids you know that kindergartens are the worst disease hotspots ever. Little kids are literally sick 50% of the time because of how fast various viruses spread though kindergartens.

    (Thankfully it’s usually trivial colds so it’s not a big deal, but if anything more serious hits I’d expect schools and kindergartens to be the first to be hit hard; this is why they’re also the first to be quarantined.)

    • Replies: @yakushimaru
  53. @SFG

    Actually another big topic right now in China is that the gov’t published a draft of a green card law. It seems many economists love it while everyone else just hate it.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  54. @anonymous coward

    I was talking about this particular virus at the particular time junction when it erupted. Not kids and diseases in general. 🙂

  55. @yakushimaru

    That’s just bad news. One would have thought that the epidemic would make people better appreciate the dangers of mass migration and having lots of people with foreign relatives.

  56. @Daniel Chieh

    Not this one. Someone made an oil painting based on, I believe, a story he heard about. That story tells that a 3 year old child died of this virus. But, now I more and more tend to think it is either a made up story or being mistaken with something else, such as a tragedy not directly linked to this virus.

    A lot of the data in the early stage does not correctly depict a wholesome picture. Even the famed zero patient, given that the onset takes some days to happen after the virus hits you, the patient zero might actually got the virus from patient 15, who can tell? Much of early data does not pay enough attention to the various time lags.

  57. There’s news that maybe it won’t spread that much in the summer. But practically over half the year seems to be okay for it, and it has been able to spread in tropical countries, too. Though maybe only because of air conditioning?

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3074131/coronavirus-highly-sensitive-high-temperatures-dont-bank-summer

    It’s been exported from India:

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  58. @Dmitry

    There being a number of reports esp. in the early days of the virus that, in a family, the old guys just wanted to go out to play mahjong while the young ones were sort of angry that their old men being so carefree. Actually, this even happened in one of my relatives family. So, it is less of out of respect, but more of love and maybe Wuhan’s development was really scary.

  59. LH says:

    How is Russia preparing for the virus? Did the government encouraged mass production of face masks, increased number of test laboratories, hospital beds and equipment? Did they publish blueprint for volunteer groups and directives to handle areas under quarantine?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Dmitry
  60. @LH

    I guess they were at least as good as most other first world countries. Which is a very low bar to clear. But at least something.

  61. WHAT says:
    @jbwilson24

    First generation.
    Then it regresses closer to the local mean with each new generation.

  62. @Dreadilk

    I measured my cock this morning and it has grown 2 inches since the virus was discovered. I am very unconcerned but it raises several troubling questions

    Does this mean I have the virus ?
    does it affect white men differently ?
    Will I have to spend hard earned money buying bigger shorts ?
    Do I now need to buy baggy pants ?
    Will Stormy D be calling me ?
    Can I now discard my walking stick ?
    Should I change my Unz handle to The Tripod Joker ?

    Questions questions ??

  63. @Philip Owen

    That is because older people are respected in Russia and also because every “older ” person is the father or mother of someone.

    That is why when a person(s) behaves like an asshole in Russia one is thumped by the people around and also by the Police and then by the prison authorities and probably also by the prisoners.

    Proof ? Put 4 blacks on the New York subway or the UK tube and see how they behave. Then put them on the Moscow subway and see how they behave. The same applies to any other race that revels in ignorance and idiocy.

    I dont know whether it has to do with American GI’s or cults. I tend to believe it has to do with what bad behaviour people feel they can get away with.

    I heard about one rapper giving a show in Singapore who was warned about spitting on the sidewalk. I doubt he had the balls to hawk up a gob and let fly in a public area as he probably did every 15 seconds in the “hood”

    I am reminded of that old saying : A monkey knows which limb to jump on !

  64. @Daniel Chieh

    Danny, I just dont know what next. There was a time when the newspapers had 36 pages and thus little space to continually devote to any one topic.

    Now with unlimited server capacity it seems every scientist, pseudo micro biologist and junior kindergarden biology student, every reporter, barber and auto mechanic has some theory or consequence to report often with charts, graphs, pictures and supplementary theses, hypotheses, study papers and medical articles from someone else.

    The next thing we are going to hear is that the virus is causing people to pee out of their left eyeball and women are growing hairy balls on their right elbow. This virus thing is being flogged ad nauseum. The whole thing has descended into the realm of utter bullshit !

    I anxiously await the next prognosis and consequence of the disease not that I give a fuck one way or the other but that is just me.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Denis
  65. @sudden death

    Donald Trump does not fear some puny virus.

    MAGA!

  66. @The Grim Joker

    Stupidity may be involuntary, but ignorance is a choice.

    You don’t have to read Karlin if you don’t care to know.

    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  67. Denis says:
    @The Grim Joker

    Now with unlimited server capacity it seems every scientist, pseudo micro biologist and junior kindergarden biology student, every reporter, barber and auto mechanic has some theory or consequence to report often with charts, graphs, pictures and supplementary theses, hypotheses, study papers and medical articles from someone else.

    You’re right we should let the experts on TV do the thinking, and put the proles back in their place. That’s worked out real well so far.

    • Replies: @SFG
  68. SFG says:
    @Denis

    Scientists in hard sciences actually do know more than us. I wouldn’t presume to lecture a physicist on electron density. The softer you get, the heavier the political influence (and there are attempts to drag political influence into the hard sciences now, at least here in the USA).

    • Replies: @Denis
    , @reiner Tor
  69. Felix Yang, Heart Rhythm Doctor; Associate Director of Cardiac Electrophysiology, Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, NY:

  70. Lowe says:
    @Dmitry

    Or perhaps the old in the West are just profoundly undeserving of respect.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  71. @Daniel Chieh

    Fuck you Chinee ! It is my right to voice my opinion. Since stupidity is involuntary and ignorance is a choice you dont have to read my comments. So take it up the pussy .

    Its yellow vomit like you eating dogs, bats and other creepy crawly slimy creatures that caused the virus. Go home !

    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  72. Denis says:
    @SFG

    Scientists in hard sciences actually do know more than us.

    I have no doubt that someone who has studied biomedicine knows more about the subject of biomedicine than I do. However, this doesn’t lead me to uncritically accept claims broadcast in lockstep by the mainstream media or to discount the claims made by those individuals outside of the mainstream on the basis of their supposed lack of respectability.

    WRT coronavirus, the claim that the virus was a product of Chinese dietary habits seems to have been repeated quite widely. Here is a link to an article from The Sun:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10812276/coronavirus-china-virus-bat-soup/

    And here is the title:

    MISSING LINK Coronavirus outbreak could be linked to bat soup say scientists

    Italics mine.

    As others have pointed out elsewhere, that video of the woman eating the bat was not shot in China, but in Palau, and as the article itself reveals, the scientists in question did not, in fact, claim that the coronavirus came from bat soup. The headline was sensationalist nonsense, and as we all know, many people read only the headline.

    Granted, this is the Sun, but I think that this is a good example of why we should take claims promulgated by mainstream media outlets with a grain of salt, even if they are supposedly made by experts.

  73. Dmitry says:
    @Lowe

    Perhaps, the most degenerate things about (some) young people in the West, is that they do not even know that lack of respect for the grandads is something to be ashamed about, which you can see with the shameless “ok boomer” comments on Facebook and YouTube.

    So, perhaps you can sin internally, but at least if you are embarrassed about this, there is some hope. But when you opening sinning, and do not even know it is a sin – we are talking about lost souls.

    Of course, not every young person, or even most, in the West is like this – but there must be enough degenerates in America that this became a common meme everywhere.

    America needs to copy Japan and introduce something like “respect for old people” day, and also make this theme of respect old people something important in the education system.

  74. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    Higher temperatures and absolute humidity, will not stop the virus from spreading completely.

    Rather, it will reduce rate of transmission, and possibly rate can be reduced to such an extent that containment will be viable.

    As for the temperatures in India. India was not all that high temperature last month (February).

    Some studies find that the temperature when viruses travel less in the air, is above 25°C.

    Peak temperatures in India in March, will start to be at levels where transmission will be a lot slower. (Although this map is only peak temperatures, or a probability for a few hours in one day in the month).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @reiner Tor
  75. Dmitry says:
    @LH

    There’s apparently insufficient numbers of coronavirus testing kits (at least last week), so there could already be greater numbers of virus infected people than are reported. Many Russian people are always vacationing in Italy, so it’s possible that more than reported (in addition to those identified) had been infected, and now carry the virus.

    Currently, numbers are good in Russia. However, if we are correct about the seasonality of this virus epidemic – then much of Russia will have 1-2 months more “dangerzone time” before the arrival of warm weather, in comparison to much of Spain, parts of America, much of Italy, Southern France, etc.

  76. @SFG

    It’s true, but not completely. Scientists in the hard scientist might be good in their own narrow fields of expertise, but not outside of it. And sometimes even within their field of expertise, it’s not perfect (though much better than some sociologists).

  77. @SFG

    Not all posters here are particularly pro-Russian, there are actually even anti-Russian commenters, and some are just neutral or moderately friendly to Russia. The topic of discussions is in a much wider range, basically includes all major geopolitical topics, some HBD, some American internal politics etc. Though regarding the latter keep in mind that most commenters here are not actually American (some are), so our interests in American internal politics is a bit more limited than you’d expect from a group of Americans from similar SEC, and are often colored by foreign policy considerations to a way larger extent than for Americans.

    Many commenters are anti-American, though it’s usually just anti-Globohomo, so not necessarily wishing America ill, just its present government/Deep State, and perhaps what they perceive to be an excessive American presence and interference in some far away geopolitical regions in the world, e.g. the ex-Soviet republics. Also, some commenters are Americans themselves, so obviously cannot be too strongly anti-American.

    Regarding the Russo-American “rivalry,” I don’t think it’s based on actual American interests, rather a kind of imperial or totalitarian ideological logic. For example no self-respecting Russian government will allow Ukrainian NATO membership, and it’s been a kind of undeclared American policy goal stretching several administrations now. America doesn’t even seem to respect Russian sphere of influence when it’s completely in congruence with international law, and American interference is a gross violation of it. As an example, see Syria, where Russia alleged to destroy the “rule-based international order” is 100% in compliance with the accepted rules, while America has been committing a naked aggression for years now, with its troops present without even a pretense to legality. America having blatantly violated international norms and rules for decades now, it’s not in a position to lecture Russia about said norms and rules. And it’s hard to see what American interest (other than poking the bear) would be served by Ukraine in NATO, especially in 2007 (when it was first officially endorsed by the US).

    The same goes for Iran, and while many commenters here (especially the rather strong Serb Commenter Brigade) are just as anti-Iran as anti-USA, some of us (like myself) believe that Obama’s foreign policy stance towards Iran was much wiser, while the present course (and Trump is not blameless in it) could easily lead a great conflagration, even way beyond Iran’s borders.

    But American thinking about these issues is rarely about American interests per se. It’s about a kind of imperial logic and totalitarian ideological thinking, where America is perceived to be the Shining City on the Hill, the perfect embodiment of democracy, and thus is viewed as above the “rules and norms” normally binding everyone else. So many Americans (unfortunately many Trump supporters, even from the iSteve commentariat) are unable to see the logic of others’ behavior, and the role America plays in making them hostile to American interests. I was surprised how the supposedly redpilled iSteve commenters supported Soleimani’s assassination, only because of “liberal tears” or because it seemed like a reasonable foreign policy move (it was not, especially not in light of what has transpired since).

    Overall, I like the discussions here the most anywhere at the UR, at least for those who are interested in geopolitics.

    • Thanks: Anatoly Karlin, JL
  78. @Dmitry

    Containment will be very hard even with reduced rate of transmission, but you are correct in that the spring should give us some hope.

    But likely it will just come roaring back in the fall.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  79. @The Grim Joker

    If I had known you two loved each other so much I would have called in the preacher or rather the Russian Orthodox Minister. Dont know any Russians who like the dirty Chinese but there is always a first.

  80. kno says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Or it is to hot in India. If you look up SARS it did not have much of an effect in there

  81. @JohnnyWalker123

    Would be hilarious if they are already immune to it from a life of filth.

  82. @Dmitry

    Containment is viable in the winter, too, see China or Cuck Korea. But you are likely correct in that it’s probably easier in the summer. It’s still probably going to be tough enough, for example there’s an outbreak on the Nile, which is warm enough even at this time.

  83. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    spring should give us some hope

    Well, for Northern Europe, it will be more like summer, unfortunately. There’s still a few months in the dangerzone perhaps.

    will just come roaring back in the fall.

    Hopefully, there will be more understanding of how to contain by then. I mean – we know how. But from governments and publics there doesn’t seem much interest in changing behaviour ahead of the first wave of infection.

    bly easier in the summer. It’s still probably going to be tough enough, for example there’s an outbreak on the Nile, which is warm enough even at this time.

    This was on a cruise ship, rather than transmission in normal living conditions.

    In the cruise ship, people are very close together, and touching the same surfaces everyday (e.g. handrails, door handles). So the airborne transmission is just icing on the cake, as people’s hands are doing enough work already.

    As for Egypt in general, it is not quite warm enough yet there to slow or at least stop airborne transmission. I think some days, it might be warm, but not consistently high enough yet.

    I’m no expert, but from studies I have been reading online, airborne infectivity for respiratory illness causing viruses falls really fast above 25°C, because of the increase in absolute humidity.

    My only experience of visiting the Middle Eastern region is Israel, although I imagine Egypt is very similar. In Israel, the temperature is going up to those levels in a consistent daily way in the second half of April.

    Swarms of giant cockroaches start flying all over the cities (a response to high heats) around end of May, if I remember correctly. But I assume from earlier in May or perhaps the end of April already, it will be much easier to control this virus epidemic in the Middle East.

  84. @mal

    If you wanted to kill a civilization this way, you would give women education, social power outside of the family structure, and disrupt their natural child caring instincts with attention gaining fetishes such as non profit volunteering and cats. This works better than any virus, but what non suicidal civilization would adopt this, right?

    These are some of the most beautiful things in life (if you are really interested in the field of your education and don’t have cat allergies), deeply satisfying for most women (and men: come on, you like to be educated more than you’d like to return to the past and be an illiterate peasant) I know. And population shrinking is a very slow process that can be reversed any time by professionalisation of pregnancy. Surrogate motherhood is already a thriving industry, just in the luxury segment – but many goods and services have been transferred from luxury to mass segment. The governments just have to really want it and stop hoping the masses will do something painful, exhausting and permanently damaging (i.e. all treatments for stretch marks aren’t real, if a woman doesn’t have the genetic luck she is stuck with these ugly things forever) for free, many times, when they have an option to minimize it. There are some who do have the genetic luck and waltz through their pregnancies without strain or a single puking – well get them to do it full-time, with appropriate compensation, and the problem’s solved.

    When the babies already exist, there’ll be no problems with who will raise them, as in first world countries there are long waiting lines of adopters for every healthy infant. And keeping population stable that way will help preserve the natural landscapes that otherwise would be swallowed by cities and landfills.

    In short: totally worth it!

    • Agree: mal
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