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Russian Chud Bogdan Vechirko Launches Personal ATO in Minneapolis
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This Bogdan Vechirko story is just perfect on so many levels of “meme convergence”:

> Be Ukrainian nationalist from Vinnytsia.
> Leave for work in a Western country, just like any Ukrainian nationalist would given the chance.
> Work intermittently as truck driver in US since 2015.
> Become #MAGA chud.
> Launch your very own “Anti-Terrorist Operation” against crowd of Antifa terrorists in Minneapolis with lorry of peace.
> Rediscover your identity as a Russian thanks to the rainbow-flag #Resistance brigade on Twitter.

Moral of the story: No matter how hard you try and larp, you will never be a Ukrainian to any Westerner. You will always be a Russian to the outside world.

 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  2. He did chicken out at the end. Didn’t kill anyone. So not a true Chad.

    This guy looks like the real deal though.

  3. utu says:

    In the news Volodymyr Zhukovskyy was Ukrainians, iirc.

    What we know about Volodymyr Zhukovskyy and the New Hampshire crash that killed 7 motorcyclists
    https://www.masslive.com/news/2019/06/what-we-know-about-volodymyr-zhukovskyy-and-the-new-hampshire-crash-that-killed-7-motorcyclists.html

    ICE puts detainer request on Ukrainian charged in deadly NH biker crash
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/ice-puts-detainer-request-on-ukrainian-charged-in-nh-biker-crash

    • Replies: @AP
  4. If James Fields got 400 years in prison for hitting a woman and giving her a heart attack when he was panicking as his car was being attacked, how long is this guy going to get?
    5000 years?

    • Replies: @fish
  5. neutral says:

    Some moronic Ukrainian cuck getting lynched by niggers in the supposedly land of the free, this is perfect divine punishment.

  6. Anatoly, you sure you found the right Bogdan Vechirko? This person claims Bogdan went to high school in Minnesota.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  7. Jake says:

    Moral of the story: No matter how hard you try and larp, you will never be a Ukrainian to any Westerner. You will always be a Russian to the outside world.

    I literally laughed out loud at that.

  8. @Felix Keverich

    I was pretty sure that it was him, given how this Bogdan Vechirko closed down his Facebook soon afterwards – and the account has been entirely deleted since then.

    https://www.facebook.com/bogdan.vechirko

    But we’ll see.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  9. @Anatoly Karlin

    I think my Vechirko more closely resembles the guy on the mugshot. Also looks appropriately aged.

    • Replies: @AP
  10. AP says:

    Mr. Hack, do you know of Vechirkos among the Ukrainian diaspora in Minnesota?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  11. AP says:
    @utu

    Yes, he seems to have come from the community of protestants who were given “refugee” status and easy immigration and who have settled in that part of the USA.

  12. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Off the boater who arrived to the USA as a kid in the 90s?

    AK:

    Rediscover your identity as a Russian thanks to the rainbow-flag #Resistance brigade on Twitter.

    Did this guy himself “re-identify” as a Russian or was he merely misidentified by Americans as a Russian.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  13. Kazdem11 says:

    I can attest to this. I was living in USA. People constantly told me that I am Russian. Due to accent. Or Swedish until I opened mouth. Meanwhile I Czech. I stopped to explain after few months. I was Russian. Overall I think, we should check out panslavismis once again. Exception for Ukraine of course 😊

    • Replies: @Belarusian Dude
  14. This fits completely with the neolib narrative. The rioters were Putin-backed white supremacists who hunted him down because he was a Ukrainian. It is rumoured that, while attacking him, one of the rioters said ‘this is for Sevastopol’.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
  15. songbird says:

    I haven’t even the slightest bit of sympathy for anyone trying to hold rallies on the highway. It is an act of pure selfish obnoxiousness, one deserving the most severe punishment possible.

    They should all be ostracized by permanently exiling them to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, a state with road quality matching the caliber of these protesters human capital, and placed as a buffer between the Luba and the Mongo – to encourage peace between them by giving them a common enemy.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
  16. @AP

    Sounds like a typical story of post-Soviet Ukrainian low wage emigration – dude worked as a truck driver. Is it common for Ukrainians in diaspora to give their children Slavic first names?

    • Replies: @AP
  17. Trying to be a Slavic “tough man” but didn’t have the guts to go through with it, and then the blacks beat him senseless like they would any other whitey who tries to get tough with them.

    • Agree: Felix Keverich
    • Replies: @AP
    , @silviosilver
  18. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    1. There are quite a few Russian truck drivers (I know two of them). A friend who is a cop says he sees them a lot.

    2. Truck driving is not a low wage profession. Average truck driver wage in the USA is about $45,000 but the Russians and Ukrainians make more than that:

    https://www.seekcapital.com/blog/how-much-truck-drivers-make-salary-every-state/

    It’s not a bad way to make a living if you don’t know the language well. The long-haulers see the country and go fishing in exotic places.

    ::::::::

    Yes, Ukrainians in diaspora typically give their kids Slavic first names.

  19. AP says:
    @Europe Europa

    Based on the video it looks like he stopped when his truck approached someone who was lying on the road. So obviously he was normal, he wasn’t trying to kill anyone. The whole story about him trying to do so might be fake news, like the Floyd was suffocated story.

  20. @AP

    He could be born in the US then.

    • Replies: @AP
  21. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    However typical diaspora would spell his name Bohdan rather than Bogdan (there are many Bohdans born in the USA). So I’m guessing he was born there and came to America as a kid, perhaps a Protestant.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  22. @AP

    He obviously wanted to intimidate them to run out of the way of his truck so he could get through, I doubt he wanted to kill them hence why he stopped. The problem is in a crowd that big there will always be one who is unhinged enough/drugged up enough to not move.

    A stupid move to pull, he’s lucky he got away with such light injuries.

    • Replies: @AP
  23. AP says:
    @Europe Europa

    My take is different: news says he got on the highway before it was closed. Coming upon the horse, He just wanted to get through and out without getting stopped and hurt. But when the guy was laying in the middle of the road he stopped after all and took his chances rather than just killing the guy in the street. But he will be presented as an evil potential murderer of peaceful protesters.

    I could be wrong, of course.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Almost Missouri
  24. Moral of the story: No matter how hard you try and larp, you will never be a Ukrainian to any Westerner. You will always be a Russian to the outside world.

    Lol, cope harder dude.

  25. @Europe Europa

    From that clip, it looks like he was already slowing down before he came to a complete stop.

    If he was going to stop anyway, though, and he could already see a crowd up ahead, he should have stopped way before he reached the crowd and just left the truck on the road.

    Surely he couldn’t have been dumb enough to think he’d get away unscathed if he stopped in the crowd’s midst.

    • Replies: @AP
  26. @AP

    This is very likely correct. But that’s not going to be the lib narrative (Putler agent) nor the left narrative (white supremacist).

    • Agree: AP
  27. Denis says:

    Meme magic is real!

  28. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    Never heard of him. Probably a newbee. Karlin’s silly resounder needs to be corrected though, it’s not Westeners that have a hard time distinguishing between Ukrainians and Russians, but only a problem for hardheaded Russians! At a gala Hollywood event put on by Russians for Russians, Ukrainian American actor Jack Palance had this to say:

    “I feel like I walked into the wrong room by mistake. I think that Russian film is interesting, but I have nothing to do with Russia or Russian film. My parents were born in Ukraine. I’m Ukrainian. I’m not Russian. So, excuse me, but I don’t belong here. It’s best if we leave.”

    Inscribed on Palance’s star on the Hollywood walk of fame: “Actor of Ukrainian descent”

    Photo with first wife of 20 years, Virginia Baker

  29. AP says:
    @silviosilver

    He probably thought he’d make it through but didn’t count on someone lying down in the middle of the road. Poor guy is now nationally thought of as a would-be killer.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  30. utu says:
    @AP

    He could have been Reginald Denny of these riots but then they would not show it. Things changed since 1992.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Ximenes
    , @EldnahYm
  31. Ukraine is not a real ethnicity. They are Russian.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  32. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    I doubt that he’s a member of one of the Protestant sects, although there are several Evangelical and Baptist “Slavic” churches in the Twin Cities. These churches tend to deemphasize their Ukrainian ethnicity and appeal to a wider “Slavic” image (therefore more conducive to any Russian proselytizing efforts in North America). They often mix and use both Ukrainian and Russian during their liturgies and social gatherings. Thanks to some of the links that Karlin has provided, we can see Vechirko showing off a Ukrainian flag and trident symbols, something I don’t think that you would see displayed by somebody of these Protestant faiths. If he or his parents are from Vynnitsa, he’s probably Ukrainian Orthodox or even Ukrainian Catholic.

    • Replies: @AP
  33. AP says:
    @utu

    Avoiding that fate may be why he initially tried to keep going. He just didn’t have the stomach to run over a person lying on the road. Thank God he wasn’t severely injured.

  34. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Orthodox if Vynnytsia.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  35. Ximenes says:
    @utu

    Nothing’s changed. Denny was trapped in an intersection surrounded by hoodlums. Bogdan was in a demonstration, where there were a few normal people willing to protect him. Also, the cops were right on the scene and they protected him too.

    • Replies: @utu
  36. utu says:
    @Mr. Hack


    Natalia Nikolaevna Zakharenko (Natalie Wood) raped at age 15 by


    Issur Danielovitch (Kirk Douglas) son of Bryna “Bertha” (née Sanglel) and Herschel “Harry” Danielovitch.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Dr. Krieger
  37. Mr. Karlin,

    When you and Vladimir Putin and Alexander Dugin have drinks and play cards do you all have a big laugh about how being a cocksucker or sodomist is high status in the United States of America?

  38. @AP

    Then the other comment is true, he went it tough but then punked out.

    Don’t really blame him though. Personally, in that situation, I wouldn’t have any qualms about the running someone over and (probably) killing them aspect. What would give me second thoughts is facing the inevitable “murder” charges and the fact that my life as I knew it would probably be over — ie, odds I’d actually get away with it are pretty slim.

    Another thing is, even if the cops are too cucked to deal effectively with the rioters (anyone who hasn’t seen it, you’ve just gotta watch the Portland cops taking a cringey Kaepernick kneel), you’d think they could at least direct traffic away from mobs of angry POC POS.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  39. utu says:
    @Ximenes

    Maybe I was not clear enough. Denny was big news then. He was a good guy. If Bogdan got Denny’s treatment he would not be in the news. Bogdan is in the news only because he allegedly wanted to hurt the protesters. He his a bad guy. And how old are you?

  40. @silviosilver

    I would make sure to accelerate before going into that crowd, cause hitting a lot of bodies would slow the truck’s momentum – I saw it happen in zombie movies.

    Imagine a speeding, roaring fuel truck flying into that mob, and as it hits the bodies they start to explode in reddish paste – that’s quite a picture!

    • Agree: neutral
    • Replies: @silviosilver
  41. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    Not necessarily. The Vatican’s “drag noch osten” is slowly if not persistently moving forward:

    Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Bar, Vynnitsa:

    Here’s another, newer larger one, consecrated in 2017 in your beloved city of Vinnitsia:

    • Replies: @Owen C.
    , @Dieter Kief
  42. Mr. Hack says:
    @utu

    What’s your point?

    • Replies: @utu
  43. utu says:
    @Mr. Hack

    What was your point pasting Jack Palance? I thought you started some game so decided to join and trump your Ukrainian with my Russian. Isn’t it what you are always playing here?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  44. @Bartholomew

    Ukraine is not a real ethnicity.

    Ukrainian is an ethnicity. However, Ukrainians constitute about half of Ukraine population. The fact that the country is in the grip of mass idiocy does not contradict the fact that the ethnicity exists. Besides, really mad vocal Ukies are in power, but they don’t represent Ukrainians. Most Ukrainians are quite normal and would enjoy seeing Banderites hanged publicly.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  45. Mr. Hack says:
    @utu

    I thought that it was perfectly clear as to why I was positing a quote (& photo) of somebody from the West that had no problem in identifying differences between Russians and Ukrainians, in reply to Karlin’s summarizing refrain:

    Moral of the story: No matter how hard you try and larp, you will never be a Ukrainian to any Westerner. You will always be a Russian to the outside world.

    Do you finally get it?

  46. @Felix Keverich

    Sure, if the sole point were to plow through the mob. But my worry is the law catching up with me. What’s the point of surviving the mob only to get 400 years in the slammer (with more of the same scum as in the mob)?

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  47. melanf says:

    The recently deceased “Russian nationalist” Konstantin Krylov dreamed of the occupation of Russia by Americans-defenders of the white race. Well well

  48. Mr. Hack says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Most Ukrainians are quite normal and would enjoy seeing Banderites hanged publicly.

    I seriously doubt it. Thankfully, I would estimate that most Ukrainians are no more interested in hanging any Banderites than they would be in hanging somebody with your own incensere Ukrainian sympathies.

  49. fish says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    If James Fields got 400 years in prison for hitting a woman and giving her a heart attack when he was panicking as his car was being attacked, how long is this guy going to get?
    5000 years?

    First 3500 are the hardest……

  50. @melanf

    How is it even humanly possible to be this much of a sad, pathetic race cuck? Unfreakingbelievable.

    • Replies: @Znzn
  51. Znzn says:
    @silviosilver

    Black bodies are worshipped in America.

    • Replies: @Matra
  52. @AP

    Agree. The video is from a high angle where it obvious that there are many people on the road, but at road level it is not necessarily obvious the road is full of people until you get closer. After all, it is illegal to “protest” on the Interstate. Heck, it’s illegal even to walk on the Interstate. The driver had probably never seen such a thing as a crowd on a 70 mph thoroughfare before, as most of us have not. Once he realized what was happening, he obviously decelerated as quickly as he could, but tanker trucks are particularly hazardous to decelerate rapidly because of the inertia of the fluid. Then the rioters start swarming the truck, and he is probably wondering wtf? He maybe could have escaped by passing through at 20-25 mph, but he didn’t understand what was happening or how he would be portrayed, which is understandable even for someone who speaks native English, which he may not. Not understanding what’s going on, he may have gotten out to make sure no one is hurt, not realizing he is about to be the one who is hurt. Then he’s attacked, and the police, who didn’t arrest any of the hundreds of illegal rioters in road, arrest the one guy on the scene who was not breaking any law!

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
  53. @Felix Keverich

    That looked like a FedEx truck. They are serious about on-time delivery.

    • LOL: LondonBob
  54. @utu

    The Jew just can’t resist raping the Granddaughter of a man that died in a street fight with the Reds in Russia. The hatred of the Jew is boundless.

  55. The hatred of the Jew is boundless.

    They went after William Jennings Bryan, to keep a criminal schoolteacher from paying a fine. The schoolteacher got off, and his ideology is taught in the public schools to this day.

    Now that’s power!

  56. EldnahYm says:
    @utu

    Wikipedia describes this attack as “retaliatory.”

  57. @silviosilver

    This is why white men lose. The niggers and muzzies just don’t care. 😄

    • Agree: silviosilver
  58. @AP

    How many Protestants are in the Ukraine and how many of them are Baptists? I’ve heard of “Russian Baptists” although I’m ignorant of the details.

    • Replies: @AP
  59. @melanf

    Honestly, Russia could benefit from a US occupation 100 years ago. But people evolve and things change.

  60. songbird says:
    @melanf

    This is why orthodoxy is important.

    But, if you think about it, while what they are doing is cringe, it really isn’t that strange. This is, after all, what all policy of the West is built around, they are merely acting it out on a theatrical level. Perhaps, ultimately for our benefit – though not willfully.

  61. @songbird

    Songbird, reading your comment I get the merest hint that you might be lacking just the littlest bit of perspective.

    • LOL: songbird
  62. Matra says:
    @Znzn

    Take a look at the protests in Amsterdam, Berlin, Dublin, and Toronto this past few days. Black bodies are worshipped everywhere.

  63. @Matra

    Everywhere inside the American empire and it’s NGO-media-academia complex. Every country that has gay marriage will also have a BLM protest and the numbers in the protest will correlate with how recent the gay marriage vote was.

    There will be no astroturfed numbers in Russia, China or North Korea but there might be some in Ukraine (would be funny if nationalists take part in it). Taiwan or South Korea. Although it’s possible that the Soviet boomers that run Russia will stage their own recycled Soviet propaganda protest instead of the usual American NGO astroturf (if so then it will be cringe) or that China will think it’s a bright idea to signal for it.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  64. Mr. XYZ says:

    @Anatoly Karlin: What’s the difference between a chad and a chud? Serious question, BTW.

  65. @Felix Keverich

    Ukrainian cowardice at its finest. They’re not a warrior people they need people to do their fighting for them, their only claim to military glory being the Cossacks which for the most part are against them now.

    • Replies: @AP
  66. @Kazdem11

    Pan-Slavism is unironically just Russian or Serbian (depending on locale) Imperialism coded

  67. AP says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    How many Protestants are in the Ukraine and how many of them are Baptists?

    Wiki says about 2% of Ukraine are Protestants.

    A lot of them are Seventh Day Adventists and Pentacostals. Through political connections with American Evangelicals they were offered political asylum like Jews and were able to easily come to America in large numbers. They avoid areas traditionally settled by diaspora Ukrainians and have large communities in Sacramento and western Massachusetts. They tend not to be well educated, marry early and have lots of kids, but are sly when it comes to milking welfare benefits while also working hard under the table. They also tend not to be very nationalistic.

    Here is a map of % of parishes in Ukraine that are Protestant. It does not mean % of believers who are Protestants (only about 2% of Ukrainians are Protestants); Protestants simply have a large number of preachers/parishes:

  68. AP says:
    @Belarusian Dude

    Ukrainian cowardice at its finest.

    Why cowardice? The guy mistakenly came upon the crowd, couldn’t stop quickly due to the weight of the truck, perhaps tried to leave but didn’t want to kill a guy on the road and thus stopped. He was then beaten up, but not too badly. He would be “brave” if he just killed a bunch of people in his massive truck like a terrorist? “Brave” is not the same thing as “bloodthirsty.”

    They’re not a warrior people they need people to do their fighting for them, their only claim to military glory being the Cossacks

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chortkiv_offensive

    That was against a much-larger Polish Army who would later defeat the Soviets.

    Then there was the Civil War (Makho, etc.) Chaotic, unorganized and thus ineffective, but hard fighters. UPA mostly slaughtered civilians but did also kill more Soviet military personnel in guerrilla war than did, say, the Chechens (they also managed to kill the Soviet Commander of the Ukrainian Front and the commie Polish defense minister in ambushes). And of course there were plenty of Ukrainians in the Soviet Army.

    How about Belarussians?

    • Agree: UK, Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Belarusian Dude
  69. @Matra

    Yes, they are worshipped by North / Western Europeans, and their descendants in America.

    The rest of the world (including Southern and Eastern Europeans) despises them.

    We are truly in an era of madness. The fact that this is taking place during prayers makes it worse.

  70. Owen C. says:
    @Mr. Hack

    According to this Kiev Post article, Bogdan from Minnesota is not the soldier from those Facebook screencaps. The KP even state they found the soldier Bogdan’s VKontakte and Odnoklassniki accounts and tried to contact him through those.

    https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/investigation-man-who-drove-truck-into-george-floyd-protest-not-ukrainian-soldier.html ( full article behind more tag – gives you a “turn off that pesky adblock” error)

    [MORE]

    As protests over the murder of African-American George Floyd by a white police officer raged across the United States on May 31, a tanker truck sped into a crowd of demonstrators on a bridge in Minneapolis, the city where Floyd was killed and the demonstrations first erupted.

    Although all the protesters managed to jump out of the way and no one was hurt, demonstrators pulled the driver from the truck and police took him into custody.

    Later that day, local media reported that the driver was 35-year-old Bogdan Vechirko. They also published his mugshots.

    WCCO – CBS Minnesota

    @WCCO
    BREAKING: Hennepin County authorities have released the mugshot of Bogdan Vechirko, the driver who drove into a crowd of protesters on the I-35W bridge Sunday afternoon. | https://cbsloc.al/36MNETX

    View image on Twitter
    2,465
    12:58 PM – Jun 1, 2020
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    Soon, information appeared online that Vechirko had donated $100 to President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign in October. This would feed the narrative that he had tried to plow into the protesters for political reasons. (Minnesota authorities would later deny that, suggesting Vechirko had not known the bridge where the protesters had gathered was closed, according to the Star Tribune).

    But then something unexpected happened. Twitter accounts began sharing photos of a Ukrainian soldier named Bogdan Vechirko found on social media. They suggested he was the truck driver in Minneapolis.

    Randall Reynolds 🇺🇸🏳️‍🌈 #Hillary2020
    @randreynolds
    ABC News reports that Bogdan Vechirko is the man who drove a big rig into the peaceful protestors in Minneapolis today.

    Here’s a photo from his Facebook. Many of his friends are Russian. Link to his account: https://www.facebook.com/bogdan.vechirko #protests2020

    View image on Twitter
    55
    12:36 PM – Jun 1, 2020
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    The next day in Ukraine, former Ukrainian lawmaker Ihor Mosiychuk published a post on Facebook titled “Freedom for Bogdan Vechirko.” In it, he claimed that Vechirko was an American citizen born in Ukraine who had served in the Ukrainian armed forces. He called on Ukrainians around the world to “unite irrespective of political views and demand the immediate release” of Vechirko.

    But there was one problem: While the truck driver and the Ukrainian soldier may share a name, they appear to be two different people.

    Using open source investigation tools, the Kyiv Post looked into the identity of the Ukrainian soldier. The soldier appears to be more than a decade younger than the Vechirko in Minneapolis and bears little resemblance to the truck driver.

    Social media search

    The photographs of soldier Vechirko that circulated on Twitter were taken from the Facebook account of an individual named Bogdan Vechirko. That account was later deleted or suspended.

    However, the Kyiv Post plugged them into FindClone.ru, a site that matches images to users of VKontakte, a Russian social network site that has been blocked in Ukraine since 2017, but that nonetheless remains popular.

    In previous investigations, the Kyiv Post has found FindClone to be highly accurate.

    All the photos of soldier Vechirko led the Kyiv Post to the account of one Ukrainian, whose given name was Bodgan. The individual used a different surname on VKontakte, but had several friends with the surname Vechirko — possibly relatives. To protect the privacy of this individual, the Kyiv Post is not publishing his surname from VKontakte.

    The Kyiv Post reached out to this Bogdan for comment over VKontakte, but has not yet received a response.

    The Kyiv Post also located the Ukrainian Bogdan’s account on Odnoklassniki, another blocked Russian social network. Both accounts appear to have been dormant since 2018.

    According to these accounts, Bogdan the soldier was born in 1998, making him 22 — or roughly 14 years younger than the suspect in Minneapolis. Biographical details from both social media sites appear to tie him to the city of Nemyriv in Ukraine’s Vinnytsia Oblast. Nothing in these accounts suggests that the man relocated, or even traveled, to the U.S.

    Meanwhile, in the United States, a Twitter user published an image of what appeared to be American Bogdan Vechirko’s high school yearbook. She wrote that her best friend went to high school with Vechirko and suggested he had graduated in 2003.

    taylr
    @taylr
    my BFF went to high school with the semi truck driver bogdan vechirko, he’s from rockford MN, probably class of 2003

    View image on Twitter
    80
    3:29 PM – Jun 1, 2020
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    The Kyiv Post could not confirm the authenticity of the yearbook photo. However, the student depicted in the yearbook photo and listed as Bogdan Vechirko resembles the Minneapolis suspect.

    Besides the results of the FindClone search, the two Bogdans appear visually different. The suspect in Minnesota has dark hair and a widow’s peak. The other Bogdan has sandy-blonde hair.

    However, in many of the photos shared on Twitter, the Ukrainian Bogdan’s head was either shaved or he was wearing a beanie, and his hair was not visible. This made it less obvious that he was not the truck driver.

    Politics

    In some of the Twitter posts featuring the younger Bogdan’s photos, users claimed that he was Russian or a Ukrainian Nazi. Users who identified him as Russian were likely suggesting that he was a Kremlin provocateur.

    Earlier, Susan Rice, formerly an advisor to U.S. President Barack Obama, claimed that the rioting across the U.S. was “right out of the Russian playbook.” She provided no concrete evidence of Russian involvement in the protests.

    Those who called Bogdan Vechirko a Ukrainian Nazi were likely responding to reports of white nationalist provocateurs joining into the unrest.

    On his VKontakte profile, soldier Bogdan described his political views as “moderate.” One of his photos was a meme that featured the words “Death to Enemies” and a Celtic Cross, a sign that the Anti-Defamation League describes as a common white supremacist symbol. However, the image appeared to be a fairly generic Ukrainian nationalist meme.

    Mosiychuk, the ex-lawmaker who called for Verchirko’s release, is a former deputy commander of the Azov Battalion, a far-right Ukrainian military force. In his post, he presented the truck driver as a Trump supporter who was simply trying to cross a bridge that had been blocked by Antifa and Black Panther party members.

    Trump has blamed Antifa, an informal and leaderless anti-fascist group, for the unrest across the United States. On May 31, Trump wrote on Twitter that the U.S. would declare Antifa a terrorist group.

    The Kyiv Post asked Mosiychuk how he knew that the Vechirko in Minneapolis was the same person as the Ukrainian soldier.

    The Ukrainian ex-lawmaker claimed he “knows people who know him,” but would not know for sure whether it was the same person until later in the day when he would have “contact with Washington.” That didn’t stop him from publishing the call to free Vechirko.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  71. @Belarusian Dude

    Sean McMeekin’s books actually document that a huge number of Russian Pan-Slavists were also rather staunch Freemasons. This includes Sazonov, who certainly gave Tsar Nicholas the worst advice of his life.

  72. @Mr. Hack

    Karlin’s silly resounder needs to be corrected though, it’s not Westeners that have a hard time distinguishing between Ukrainians and Russians, but only a problem for hardheaded Russians!

    With all due respect, I think you underestimate the stupidity and/or ignorance of most Westerners. I can very easily believe that average Westerners are unable to distinguish between a Russian and a Ukrainian.

    Those two propositions – that there are hardheaded Russians and incredibly stupid Westerners – are not mutually exclusive, after all.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack, Lurker
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  73. I find it bizarre how so many people say white Americans are “racist” when in reality they seem almost naively and excessively pro-black as far as I can see. So much so that they would rather convince themselves that the rioters are really white ANTIFA members than accept that their African-American citizens could possibly be burning their nation to the ground and beating whitey’s brains out.

    White Americans idolise blacks, so much so that they feel almost emotionally hurt when they see them rioting across the country and burning it down in a way they wouldn’t if it was any other race rioting.

    • Replies: @UK
    , @Lowe
  74. songbird says:
    @Matra

    Dublin is a particularly sad case because of the local history regarding O’Connell Street. The Easter Rising was not much more than a 100 years ago. Now, the street is filled with black trannies agitating for more power.

    I hope, in the future, someone dynamites the Spire.

  75. Mr. Hack says:
    @Owen C.

    You’d think that this mix-up in identities would be easy enough to clarify – truck driver Vechirko lives somewhere in the US and should not be that difficult to locate? I heard somewhere that he actually lives in Ohio?…

  76. Mr. Hack says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Those two propositions – that there are hardheaded Russians and incredibly stupid Westerners – are not mutually exclusive, after all.

    True enough, however, I’m still puzzled why Karlin would latch on to such a meme and try to score some kind of political dividends from repeating it?

  77. George says:

    Heavy.com says he was just working when he ended up driving into the crowd and braked as quickly a safely possible.

  78. @George

    This.

    I don’t know why people (even here!) have so credulously swallowed that this was an attempted terror attack. It looks more like he was on the wrong road before it was sealed off, ran into the mob, stopped immediately, and then was rewarded for his restraint in not flattening a dozen of those degenerates (when he easily might have) with a beating.

    • Replies: @Max Payne
  79. “Bogdan” is an absurd name, but that aside the man is a hero.

    It has always been my position that the immediate response to any group of people deliberately shutting down public roads must be to dispatch trucks to run them over.

    Transportation infrastructure is essential and more important than whatever narcissistic “protest”/riot is going on, let alone a contemptible one devoted to negrolatry.

  80. 128 says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Unless I remember wrong your side lost the Russian civil war right?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  81. @128

    Yes, and for somewhat similar reasons to what you’re seeing play out right now.

    • Replies: @128
  82. @AP

    Cherrypicked, unadulterated cope with a hint of low IQ bait using those epic two Ss. We never had to do any fighting because we could jew others into doing it for us, I never really claimed we’re a warrior people, but it seems our thicker skins lend us to be such much more than Ukrainians

  83. 128 says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Red may have more guns but the blues can crash their C4i and can pull all manner of gadgets out of their rabbit hat, which makes the Reds having more guns a lot less useful? Unless you can win a war using radios only? And based on the performance of the antifa blues having less guns is a problem that can be fixed relatively quickly. And as for whether the armed forces sides with the blues or reds, more than half of the armed forces are POCs now, plus kneeling cops also puts their future allegiance with the reds in doubt. But then a couple of nukes launched from the red territory can take out the Blue’s capital.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  84. @Thorfinnsson

    “Bogdan” is an absurd name

    “Bogdan” means God-given (“Bog” means God, “dan” is passive past form of a verb “dat’”, which means to give. BTW, this name and its meaning are exactly the same in Russian and Ukrainian.

    It has always been my position that the immediate response to any group of people deliberately shutting down public roads must be to dispatch trucks to run them over

    The lawful response to people blocking public roads is to arrest them, not to run them over. Law enforcement must not be as lawless as criminals.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Jatt Arya
  85. Mr. Hack says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    “Bogdan” is an absurd name

    Really, not that much more absurd than your own surname, Thorfinnsson. “Bogdan” in any Slavic language means “given of God”, similar to “son of the god, Thor”. In case you weren’t aware, the head of the Slavic pantheon of pagan gods was named “Perun”. He was very similar (if not identical) to the Norse head god “Odin.”

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
    , @Ano4
  86. 128 says:

    Unless the Reds are confident that they can get the elite formations plus the relevent number of troops to side with them?

  87. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    It has always been my position that the immediate response to any group of people deliberately shutting down public roads must be to dispatch trucks to run them over.

    Logistically, this would be difficult due to the way the roads would clog, and the cleanup would necessitate shutting down the highways for even longer, as crews always crave overtime.

    As the Good Book says, there is wisdom in mercy. Therefore, I advocate tying them to the hoods and rims of semis on long haul journeys, and then permanently exiling them to countries with the worst roads in the world, where they would be forced to maintain the thin top created by the thieving elites, during the rainy season. After they got malaria, and some of the fat was lost in recurring fevers, their pictures would be taken to post on billboards in the area where they were seized.

    The real difficulty is in deciding where to send them. Haiti, I think, is too close. The DRC has ebola, which is good, but Mauritania, if I understand correctly, still has a lot of landmines, which is also good. On the other hand, Somalia (which might have slightly better roads?) has always seemed like a hellscape to me, and I think we have quite reasonable claim to settle many there.

  88. @128

    It’s not accurate that more than half of the armed forces are colored, especially not the sharp end of the spear.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/214869/share-of-active-duty-enlisted-women-and-men-in-the-us-military/

    Of enlisted men seven-tenths are white. The officer corps is whiter still.

    That said it’s not strictly useful to speak of white vs. non-white. As we see in the current insurrection, large numbers of whites are bioleninist bolsheviks fanatically committed to negrolatry and the state theology of inferiority worship generally.

    For most whites still non-whites may as well not exist except inasmuch as they can be mobilized in the war (mostly cultural, but sometimes kinetic) against other whites. Even when non-white countries are actual superpowers they’re mostly ignored.

    I agree with your analysis otherwise. The “left” is fanatically committed to its theology, considers its enemies to be evil, believes political violence in support of its goals is justified, is well-organized, and most importantly has the backing of most major power structures.

    That many right-wing civilians have guns doesn’t matter much when most ostensible rightists simply wish to be left alone and efforts at self-defense tend to result in crucifixion by the cathedral and often actual persecution by the state.

  89. Max Payne says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    Because no one in this forum understands how basic physics works (or actually worked in their lives).

    Don’t take it personal. It’s the limitations of autism.

  90. UK says:
    @Europe Europa

    If the rioting is a white antifa thing then solving it just takes time and some intelligent police work.

    If the rioting is a young black person thing then what on earth is the solution which hasn’t already been tried?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @EldnahYm
  91. @AnonFromTN

    “Bogdan” means God-given (“Bog” means God, “dan” is passive past form of a verb “dat’”, which means to give. BTW, this name and its meaning are exactly the same in Russian and Ukrainian.

    It sounds like Bog-Dan

    as in some guy named Dan who lives in a Bog

    I tend to assume that slavs do live in bogs in their natural habitat so it makes sense

    The lawful response to people blocking public roads is to arrest them, not to run them over. Law enforcement must not be as lawless as criminals.

    I believe it was Mencius Moldbug who stated that every city in the world imposes immediate capital punishment for the crime of stepping into the street in front of a moving bus.

    But sure, certainly the initial response to any unlawful gathering should be to disperse and arrest. Lethal force is a last resort. Escalation, however, should be extremely rapid where critical infrastructure is concerned in order to prevent disruption.

    I am however extremely irritated by any kind of “protest” activity which obstructs traffic, hence my cantankerous response. Indians in Canada are (in)famous for blockading railroads, and I consider it absurd that this is tolerated for even a second. Good luck stopping a freight train with your frail human body.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Dmitry
  92. Jatt Arya says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Interesting

    Daan means donation in Sanskrit
    Bog comes from Sanskrit Bhagwaan or giver of blessings.

    His name is basically Bhagwaan in Slavic, cool name।।

    Hmm Daat also means blessing. Daata or giver of blessings is an honorific

    Bogdan is a stalwart, upstanding name।।

    Swedejew is just mad।।

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Ano4
    , @Simpleguest
  93. Jatt Arya says:
    @Mr. Hack

    He’s a Swede, you can safely ignore him।।

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  94. @Jatt Arya

    No wonder there are similarities. Sanskrit is the oldest known Indo-European language. This language family includes Roman, Germanic, and Slavic sub-families, along with a few lesser ones. The funniest thing is, a lot of white Europeans feel uncomfortable because of this connection with Sanskrit. I am not one of them.

    • Agree: Jazman
  95. maz10 says:

    Ukrainian and Russian are obviously two different ethnos, that however with many caveats.

    To put it differently they are not separated by a straight, clear line but rather by a zig-zagged one which in places gets blurry.

    In order to exemplify – hand at hart, how many bar Russians, Ukrainians (descendants thereof) and students of Slavistics can:

    – Tell apart Russian and Ukrainian writing?
    – Distinguish Russian and Ukrainina embroidered shirts?
    – The same with borshch and borscht or vodka and horilka?

    With Poles it is much easier, as there the distinction is much clearer not least thanks to writing in the Latin alphabet and and less taste for embroidered shirts though there still is barszcz as well as wódka and gorzałka ; )

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @AnonFromTN
  96. LondonBob says:

    It was either an accident or he had last minute pang of conscience, either way he harmed no one but I won’t be surprised if he gets jail time whilst many rioters don’t.

    The long forecast civil war is starting earlier than thought in the US, good thing as there are still a reasonable number of Whites, even allowing for the bad eggs gone over to the other side. Maybe Europe might actually learn a lesson here, but the message is that Whites are racist in America, rather than pathetically weak on the race issue.

  97. Mr. Hack says:
    @Jatt Arya

    He’s an American of Swedish descent. I find some of his comments to be amusing if not interesting, unless he stoops to a lowly form of demagoguery and advocates the running over of stupid but defenseless protesters on public roads. 🙁

  98. @maz10

    Ethnic identity is a matter of internal feelings, not a matter of external facts.

    If an ethnic group is convinced that it exists, then it exists.

    • Replies: @maz10
  99. @UK

    The USA had few, if any, problems with negro riots prior to 1960.

    Draw your own conclusions.

  100. Ano4 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Perun in Slavonic = Perkunas in Baltic = Taranis in Gaelic = Thor in Norse

    The Paganism promoted by prince Vladimir of Kiev prior to his conversion to Eastern Orthodox faith was of a Baltic type with an emphasis on Perun, the chief warrior God.

    The higher God in the Slav pantheon was Svetovid (Sventavid in Wendish) he was the equivalent of the Hinduist Trimurti, hence he usually had three or four heads.

    BTW, the Slav Paganism “Vatican” was in Arkona on the island of Rugen which hosted the great temple of Svetovid.

    Rugii (also sometimes called Russii) have been the last European tribe to have been forcibly converted to Christianity.

    According to recent archeological finds, Rugen probably served also as a refuge for the last Norse
    pagans after the conversion of their ethnic groups to Christianity.

    According to the writings of witnesses of the last Wendish crusade,which lead to fall of Arkona, one of the Wends priestly casts was called Drev Vidy = tree seers, which sounds eerily reminiscent of Druids in Gaelic.

    Nothing really surprising though, if one understands that these western Slav populations were most probably directly descended from the Unetice culture through the Lusatian culture.

    They were the direct descendants of proto Balto-Slavic tribes of the Bronze Age.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  101. @Mr. Hack

    The blue one is special. Dreamstime. Oh yeah. Thanks for posting it.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  102. @Thorfinnsson

    Interesting. Back in the eighteenth century, Russia cut Sweden down to size, from an influential imperial power to a third-rate European country (annihilated Karl XII near Poltava, then took Finland away by force and purchased Baltics). I did not think it still hurts in the twenty first century. Now I know.

    • LOL: Jazman
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  103. Launch your very own “Anti-Terrorist Operation” against crowd of Antifa terrorists in Minneapolis with lorry of peace.

    – Funny. Not true, as mentioned already above, but funny nonetheless. Hope Bogdan Vechirko will get out of his legal troubles with just minor damages.

  104. Ano4 says:
    @Jatt Arya

    There are hundreds of direct cognates between Slavonic and Sanskrit.

    I have the list in Russian.

    It is quite amazing when you realize how close these two languages are.

    The current wisdom is that the Aryan tribes that replaced the ancient Indus civilization came from the Sintashta culture.

    Their main Y haplogroup was R1a.

    It is still the main Y haplogroup in Eastern Europe and Central Asia (despite the heavy Turkic Turkic admixture of the ancestral Iranian populations there).

    In the old Russian towns, such as Suzdal it represents nearly 80% of male population.

    Just like in the Brahmin caste in modern Northern India.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @JohnPlywood
  105. AP says:
    @Ano4

    Even the word Buddha has a Slavic counterpart -budyty (to awaken).

    • Agree: Ano4
    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  106. @maz10

    It’s easy to spot the differences where they are real, impossible to spot them where they are imaginary.

    – Tell apart Russian and Ukrainian writing?

    Ukrainian has letters Russian does not (e.g., “i”, “ї”); Russian has letters Ukrainian does not have (e.g., “ъ”, “ы”, “э”). Although both languages use Cyrillic, the writing is easily distinguishable.

    – Distinguish Russian and Ukrainina embroidered shirts?

    These are different only in sick imagination of nationalists. In fact, embroidered shirts of many Eastern European nations (from Mordva and Udmurts to Czechs) are pretty much the same.

    – The same with borshch and borscht or vodka and horilka?

    There are many (dozens) variants of borshch. Russian versions tend to be based on beef, whereas Ukrainian ones are variably based on beef, pork, even duck meet. Only Ukrainians add to borshch “salo” (pork fat) mashed with garlic.

    Classical horilka is exactly the same as vodka, made of grain, in contrast to Polish version made of potatoes, Czech slivovitsa (slivovitz) based on plums, and other Eastern European varieties based on apples, pears, etc.

    However, only Ukrainian horilka can be with hot peppers, perfect Russian vodka is 40% ethanol, 60% water, and nothing else. BTW, unlike everything else, hot pepper horilka really cures cold. The day you feel the beginning common cold, take 200 ml (100 ml for Westerners) before bed, and next morning you’d be fine. I cured my American collaborator successfully, and he cured his other American collaborators with what remained.

    • Replies: @maz10
  107. EldnahYm says:
    @UK

    If the rioting is a young black person thing then what on earth is the solution which hasn’t already been tried?

    The solution is indiscriminate violence against black communities. Early in the 20th century, there were many race riots. The difference from today is that the majority of casualties were blacks killed by white civillains. Blacks communities lived in fear of retribution. Today, there is no fear, as white people will no longer stand up for themselves. Ironically antifa are doing the most harm to blacks.

    The rioting is both an antifa and a black thing. At the present time it’s confined mostly to black or liberal white areas. If the Democratic authorities refuse to put these riots down, we shouldn’t be upset about it. Let them kill each other.

  108. maz10 says:
    @silviosilver

    It is inappropriate to quote oneself they say but have I not written:

    Ukrainian and Russian are obviously two different ethnos, that however with many caveats.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  109. maz10 says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You obviously have a right to comment and are technically right professor, however by virtue of being of the Russo-Ukrainian genus it disqualifies you as an outside observer per the criteria I specified in my post.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  110. @AnonFromTN

    I thought at first this was AP (owing to previous discussion and the quality commenter star) and was quite surprised.

    After carefully rereading I see it’s just AnonFromTN, and now the comment makes sense.

  111. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    What’s the difference between a chad and a chud? Serious question, BTW.

  112. @maz10

    Yep, while discussing either Russian or Ukrainian affairs, I cannot be considered an outsider. Sorry. One of my grandmothers used to cook purely Ukrainian borshch (with pork, salo, and garlic), which was very tasty. My wife cooks Russian borshch, with beef, without salo, and rarely with garlic, which is also tasty.

  113. 128 says:

    Is it fair to make the observation the liberals have higher verbal IQ than conservatives? For those who say, what about math, the most important issues are basically metaphysical questions, or rather you have answers supplied by math or physics, but the final judgement call on what you should do is metaphysical in nature, where those who have higher verbal IQs have the advantage here.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Dmitry
  114. Mr. Hack says:
    @Ano4

    Like I’ve said, some of your comments are quite interesting! 🙂

    • Thanks: Ano4
  115. @128

    Is it fair to make the observation the liberals have higher verbal IQ than conservatives?

    If you include blacks into “liberals” category, the answer is a resounding “no”. In most cases their verbal abilities are equivalent to a seven-year-old.

    It is fair to say that liberals are often better at talking the talk. Their main weakness is that they virtually never walk the walk.

    • Replies: @128
  116. I don’t get why Russians are so obsessed with “claiming” Ukraine as their own. As I’ve said on here before, Scotland is probably more similar to England than Ukraine is to Russia yet literally no one argues that Scotland is really England. “Scots” and “English” are almost always referred to as two separate entities, especially outside of the UK.

    It strikes me as an inferiority complex, like Russians feel they have to “claim” all the culturally similar neighbouring countries to maximise their achievements and sense of “greatness”. Whereas the English don’t have an inferiority complex in terms of historical achievements so don’t feel compelled to tenuously claim Scotland as their own.

    • Disagree: Mikhail
    • Troll: Felix Keverich
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Mikhail
  117. Mr. Hack says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Glad you enjoyed it. I’m a little bit surprised that AP made no comment? He’s often posted video about how liveable and charming the town of Vinitsia presents itself. I don’t think that he was aware of the “Blue One” (Protection of the Holy Virgin).

    The simpler structure of the church in Bar (sorry, I couldn’t locate its name) is obviously older and simpler in design, and retains a certain classical semblance that appeals to my eye. There are probably even more Ukrainian Catholic churches that could be located within Vinnytsia, that was at the forefront of Ukrainian cultural religious wars between Catholics and Orthodox, that’s mark can be undoubtedly felt in the area. Here’s an outstanding example of high Polish Roman Catholic Baroque church architecture in Vinnitsya, that should not be missed:

    St Anna Roman Catholic Cathedral

    Accross the street one can find an equally impressive pearl of Ukrainian Orthodox church Architecture, St. Assumption Orthodox Cathedral. Both communities wisely practice good neighborly relations:

  118. Same energy:

    dozens of cops just arrived in fishtown where two crowds have been in a stand off for a couple hours after a group of men walked up and down Girard Ave carrying bats and hammers pic.twitter.com/2GkPX05xE5— Anna Orso (@anna_orso) June 2, 2020

    • Replies: @Europe Europa
  119. 128 says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I am including liberal Jews and Whites here.

  120. @maz10

    These so-called “caveats” are simply a poorly disguised attempt to slap an asterisk next to Ukrainian identity, to delegitimize it, to make it seem “less real” than Russian identity.

    • Replies: @maz10
  121. @Europe Europa

    Right now, the Russians I know (I mean those who live in Russia) are vehemently against claiming Ukraine as Russia. Many would accept Donbass (as regions, not republics) and nothing else. The prevailing feelings are “thank goodness, we are not brothers, we’d be ashamed to have brothers like that”. As to achievements, Ukraine has so few that there is nothing to appropriate. Especially considering Russian achievements.

    I guess you confuse Russian disdain of ingratitude with the desire to claim ownership. Ukraine was a tiny piece of land claimed by Poland when it begged to be included into Russian Empire. Tsars, Lenin, Stalin, and Khrushchev added 5/6th of its present territory. It always (in fact, until 2014) received from Russia more than it gave Russia.

    Sad thing is, the path Ukrainian elites chose doom it to remain the perennial backwater, behind Russia forever. If it is to recover, only Russia would do anything to help: Europeans are too stingy, not to mention that the EU has its own huge problems, while the US never pays for anyone, it treats its vassals like disposable condoms, uses and discards. Even if it eventually comes to that, Russians would only agree to accept individual regions, so there would be no Ukraine.

  122. @Kent Nationalist

    There is still a certain element of tough, patriotic native whites in British towns and cities, what snobby middle class types would call “chavs”.

    I don’t get the impression that urban areas of the US have an equivalent working class white population prepared to act like this, if there is a US equivalent they seem to be mostly in rural areas.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    , @Dmitry
  123. @Europe Europa

    I don’t get the impression that urban areas of the US have an equivalent working class white population prepared to act like this, if there is a US equivalent they seem to be mostly in rural areas.

    The tweet has a video of working class whites in what I believe is one of the few white ethnic (Irish in this case) neighbourhoods remaining in the US. But the British video is in Enfield, which is more of a suburban area where the native working class who previously lived in the East End have fled to because of blacks. I think the culture is similar to Essex, which has a culture very closely analogous to parts of the US (e.g. New Jersey) where working class whites fled to from the inner cities. I would be shocked if such areas in America didn’t have their own self-defence forces.The correspondence between The Only Way is Essex and the Jersey Shore is not a coincidence.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  124. @Jatt Arya

    Daan means donation in Sanskrit

    Yes, intersting indeed.
    While Bogdan, taken literaly, does translate as “God given” or “given by God”, which sounds a bit dry, I think its true essence is supposed to be “gifted by God” or a “gift from God”.
    Also, Bogdan is a male name. Feminine version is Bogdana.

    • Replies: @utu
  125. Dmitry says:
    @Europe Europa

    In UK, proletariat is still mainly English. While from my observation (well I walked and cycled a lot in California a few years ago), in much of the cities in the USA, there is not such white proletariat anymore.

    Urban white people in America, seem almost all what can be called “middle class” in a normal context. The country has a different level of wealth, although with an usually uneven distribution compared to Western Europe.

    In terms of city culture, “white” is almost synonymous with the bourgeoisie for American ears. Note that Karlin (who grew up in San Francisco and London), calls bourgeois hipster culture – “stuff white people like”.

    Similarly, there are terms like “Basic White Girl” – where the terms refers to characteristics of bourgeois consumerist women. Obviously, terms doesn’t make any sense if your country has non-American levels of wealth.

  126. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    named Dan who lives in a Bog

    Lol, I guess it’s a representative attitude, as Americans really often don’t learn non-English languages.

    When read words from another language, try to ignore similarities of appearance (although in this case it is different pronunciation). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend

  127. Dmitry says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    Essex and the Jersey Shore

    MTV Jersey Shore? This is surely the most “racist” show about the brown Italian guidos.

    America received a different kinds of “Italians”, if you can believe MTV’s representation.

    Italians that live in the UK, are more like software engineers, postdoctoral researchers, nerd girls obsessed with Harry Potter. It couldn’t be more opposite people than guidos stereotype in popular culture in America.

    Perhaps America had some kind of anti-selective immigration from there -I wonder if to go across the Atlantic to America, was to escape the local police in Italy.

  128. utu says:
    @Simpleguest

    Bogdan is a calque from Greek Theodore. There is also Serbo-Croatian Božidar (Божидар) and Polish Bożydar which means gift from God literally.

    There is a good question whether Bogdan/Bohdan existed before Christianity was brought by missionaries to Slavs or whether it was constructed as translation of Theodore by the missionaries to make Christianity more palatable. What did Slavic pagans contribute to their culture? When you carefully look through sayings, phrases and proverbs you will find that great majority of them have Biblical precedents or Greek or Latin. Also the so called folk fairy tales were at some point constructed as modifications of texts available in Greek or Latin. Many of Ivan Krylov tales are based based on Aesop’s and La Fontaine’s but they seem to be as Russian as they can be, right? But they are not original.

    Blacks in their search for their independent identity construct new history and mythology about themselves by appropriating Ancient Egypt or Ethiopian history from Biblical time to Emperor Haile Selassie. Were Slavs similarly deluded and misguided in early times when Christianity was imposed on them or is it a more recent phenomenon among the neo-pagan nationalists who want to reject Jewish/Vatican/Constantinople/West influences and find solace in the fairy tales of Perun and other Slavic deities that btw haven’t left a single written text about them. Everything we know of them was constructed much later. Like in the 19th century the movement of Romanticism in literature was important vehicle for building national awareness but also anti-Christian and anti-Church sentiments.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Simpleguest
  129. Jatt Arya says:
    @AP

    Based.

    The Arya shibboleth is a taboo on cow slaughter||
    Once the Nostradamus prediction comes, gay worshipers in the W & S of Evrope + MENA don||

    ਨਮੋਸਸਤ੍ਰਪਾਣੇ॥ਨਮੋਅਸਤ੍ਰਮਾਣੇ॥ਨਮੋਪਰਮਗਿਆਤਾ॥ਨਮੋਲੋਕਮਾਤਾ॥੯॥੫੨॥

    Namo Sasatar Paane॥Namo Asatar Maane॥Namo Parma Giaataa॥Namo Loka Maataa॥9॥52॥

    Salutation to the wielder of Weapons||
    Salutation to the sender of Arrows||
    Salutation to the know-er of the Unknowable||
    Salutation to the Mother of the World||

    The non-African maternal lineage traces back to Hind||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  130. Jatt Arya says:
    @Jatt Arya

    LOL.

    >Tfw Hindus

    >Arya
    >cleanshaven & unarmed

    Pick one.

    >Tfw Slav

    >Perun & Veles fight daily over the sacred herd.
    >cow slaughter

    Pick one.

    >Tfw Irani

    >sibling
    >wife

    Pick one.

    >Tfw Sikh

    >arms control & feminism
    >Dharma

    Pick one.

    This is R1a.

  131. Dmitry says:
    @128

    verbal IQs

    IQ – as usually described here, is just a construct of “IQ tests” (childish puzzle games created by 20th century psychologists).

    If you are referring to actual “intelligence” (i.e. academic abilities), then of course the distinction between verbal/maths intelligence is not quite sensible. This mythology that there is a distinction, seems to have emerged from the fact that some people can be good at some verbal disciplines, while failing in maths – or perhaps it is a result of the fact the (comically easy) GRE test bizarrely includes a test of native English speaking Americans on their vocabulary.

    “Maths intelligence” is mainly a branch of “verbal intelligence” (it is clearly using the same part of the brain as verbal thought), although some areas of the subject perhaps use more visual parts of the brain for the reasoning.

    • Replies: @songbird
  132. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    existed before Christianity

    The distant origin of the word (although not the concept of the referent) is from ancient Aryan languages, which is also in sanskrit

    It is deriving from the same root as “Bhagavad” in Bhagavad Gita.

    • Replies: @utu
  133. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    The words and concepts bog/boh existed before Christianity but we have no proof that Bogdan/Bohdan did exist before Greek missionaries brought Christianity. Keep in mind that baptism was a key to Christina conversion. This necessitated invention/adopting names that could be considered Christian and acceptable to the neophytes.

  134. @Jatt Arya

    What do you make of cult of mithra? Slaying of bull in ritual. I think relationship of proto-indoeuropeans to cow was more complex than adoration/genocide, but certainly very religious.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  135. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Europe Europa

    As I’ve said on here before, Scotland is probably more similar to England than Ukraine is to Russia yet literally no one argues that Scotland is really England.

    Scots and English aren’t more closely related than Russians and Ukrainians.

  136. American police continues to assault Russian journalists.

  137. @Mikhail

    Scots have a culture, language and national identity to go back to the middle ages! EE is an English chauvinist and his comment was as much a troll of Scots as a troll of Russians.

    To the extent that we can even talk about “Ukrainian nation”, we’re talking about 20th century North American diaspora.

    • Disagree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @AP
  138. maz10 says:
    @silviosilver

    These so-called “caveats” are simply a poorly disguised attempt to slap an asterisk next to Ukrainian identity, to delegitimize it, to make it seem “less real” than Russian identity.

    No dear sir, it is merely stating that what is observably obvious.

    If you consider the observably obvious to somehow undermine Ukraine’s Ukrainity – in that case there is either a serious problem with the Ukrainian identity or with your judgement (personally I would opt for the latter).

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
  139. @Jatt Arya

    You are upholding the ancient Indian tradition of being the worst commenters on Unz, congratulations

    • Disagree: Ano4
    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  140. @Mikhail

    Some Northern English dialects like Geordie are closer to Scottish dialects than they are to Standard English (Southern) dialects. So basically you’re saying that even native English people are more different to each other than Russians and Ukrainians?

    • Replies: @AP
  141. @utu

    There is a good question whether Bogdan/Bohdan existed before Christianity was brought by missionaries to Slavs or whether it was constructed as translation of Theodore by the missionaries to make Christianity more palatable.

    While it seems possible that Bozhidar is indeed based on Theodore, the reason it was “slavicised” was probably because Slavs, initially, liked to Slavicise things, like personal names and other staff, and wanted to give everything a distinct Slavic sound and hue.

    Later on, with Christianity becoming firmly established, they seem to abandon this practise and begin using personal names in their original form, like with Alexander Nevsky for example. Even Theodore “re-appears” and becomes quite frequently used in paralel with Bogdan (Bozhidar), only slightly changed as Todor.

    This would indicate existence of historic developments very opposite to what you are trying to say. Slavs actually may have lost a big and significant chunk of their Slavic identity with Christianity.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  142. denjae says:

    Moral of the story: No matter how hard you try and larp, you will never be a Ukrainian to any Westerner. You will always be a Russian to the outside world.

    MAYOR FREY WIKI’S. April & May 2020:
    Westerner’s don’t matter . . . Mayor’s next gig is what matters . . .
    ============================================
    Frey grew up in Oakton, Virginia, a Washington, D.C., suburb, and received a track scholarship to attend the College of William & Mary, from which he graduated in 2004. His family is of Russian Jewish descent. [6] After graduating with a degree in government, Frey received a contract —- . .. .etc … . . . . . . . .
    This page was last edited on 30 April 2020, at 13:46 (UTC)
    ===========================================
    Frey grew up in Oakton, Virginia, a Washington, D.C., suburb, and received a track scholarship to attend the College of William & Mary, from which he graduated in 2004. His family is Jewish and of Ukrainian descent.[6] After graduating with a degree in government, Frey received a contract — etc. . . . . . . . . . .. . .
    This page was last edited on 28 May 2020, at 05:35 (UTC)
    ===========================================
    So maybe with “RussiaGate” kinda dead and the Mayor gig looking kinda’ shaky, the Mayor is looking to hook up with Quid Pro Quo Joe and grab something to do with / for / to the Ukraine ?
    ===========================================
    (Personal note. My family also suffered the 1917- ‘20 thing. Just across the border from Ukraine. Didn’t matter whether the militants overrunning the neighborhood were Russian or Ukrainian or Czech. Real concern was the neighbors down the street . . . going Bolshevik? or NOT Bolshevik? )

    (And yes, I did make pdf’s of the Mayor’s Wiki’s)

  143. Jatt Arya says:
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    By cow we mean dairy cow, show me someone who insists on slaughtering them for meat today (beside JEw moses larp retards) and I’ll show you someone either mentally retarded or insane||

    Buffalo slaughered in Nepal & Bengal most other people switched to goat||
    Go look up the African AK47 cow protection tribe||

    Cattle & Horse husbandry is core Arya, even Mongols learned from them||
    Khalsa still nomadic.

  144. @Dmitry

    ” It couldn’t be more opposite people than guidos stereotype in popular culture in America.”

    It wasn’t always so – I worked in the 1970s at a low-end job in what was still then an industrial English city. One of my colleagues was a short but muscular guy from Naples (as union rep I once saved him from the sack for what was probably a sackable offence). His pride and joy was a large book of Polaroid photos of his conquests – mostly taken from above as they knelt in front of him.

    • LOL: Kent Nationalist
    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  145. @Dmitry

    I think you have misinterpreted my comments. I was not saying that Italians in Britain were similar to Italian-Americans, rather that the Italian Americans who fled from inner cities to areas like New Jersey are culturally/socially homologous to the native English who fled from London to areas like Essex and certain parts of outer North-East London. This even extends to very similar (I believe) reality TV shows being made about both.

    Although, since we are discussing it, I think you have a slightly misleading picture of Italians in Britain. A vast number in London are waiters. When I went out with a Sicilian girl, she had a strange ability to recognise other Italians in restaurants before they even started speaking and would shock me by starting to speak in Italian. Her friends were a mixture of menial jobs up to gastroenterologists and academics, although almost all were from Sicily, Puglia or Rome.

  146. @YetAnotherAnon

    That reminds me of a scene from the Fellini film La Citta delle donne.

  147. Jatt Arya says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    You are upholding the ancient Indian tradition of being the worst commenters on Unz, congratulations

    This is R1bhenchud.

  148. 128 says:

    How come USSR and the Eastern blockwas not swamped by third world people despite a universalist ideology? My understanding as to why the West opened up its gates to the third world was to compete ideologically with the Reds, since they were using anti-racism to try to appeal to Africa, Asia, and Latin America, so the West had to liberalize their immigration policies to compete, also the reason why the US ended segregation, maybe because they are afraid of a communist black uprising, I mean as dreary as the Soviet or GDR economy is, it is still better than living in Angola or Vietnam in the 70s and 80s. And the GDR could always use mass immigration of third world people to offset the emmigration for the FRG.

  149. Ano4 says:
    @128

    Capitalism needs underpaid human resources to bring the wages down.

    Hence immigration.

    It’s even better if no wages are paid.

    Hence slavery.

    Combine the consequences of both and you have the current situation.

    • Agree: AP
  150. I find it odd how no one in the media seems to be mentioning coronavirus in relation to these riots and the breakdown in social distancing, it’s like they believe that it’s not possible for these rioters/protesters to spread the virus.

    Just goes to show what a lie the whole virus and lock down thing was, a political agenda that has outlived its purpose so now they’ve moved onto phase two: civil unrest/race riots.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @silviosilver
  151. @Europe Europa

    Maybe deep down they hope that all these thugs get infected and die? The elites need them and their rampage for a few days, after that they’d be happy to see them die out. The rampaging morons don’t understand that. They aren’t called losers for nothing.

  152. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    To the extent that we can even talk about “Ukrainian nation”, we’re talking about 20th century North American diaspora.

    Yeah, those were the guys voting en masse for Ukrainian nationalist parties in Galicia in the late 19th century and in the all-Russian election in 1917.

    Pleasant wishful thinking.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  153. AP says:
    @Europe Europa

    That’s the dream. But take what he says with a big grain of salt. Despite his internet name and interests, he speaks neither Ukrainian nor Russian.

  154. Dmitry says:
    @Simpleguest

    lavs actually may have lost a big

    Because we cannot know so much about the pre-Christian culture, does not necessarily mean it was not a developed or refined one.

    Utu has a good point that “most of the hard-drive was wiped clean after installing the new operating system”, and that even a lot of so called “traditional slavic folk culture”, can usually trace as an local interpretation of Western European culture or the Bible. Folkloric sayings and proverbs, are often just a local variation of saying in the Bible, and a lot of such slavic folkore was created (under pretense of “reconstruction”) only in the 19th century.

    However, something deleted on the hard-drive, does not always imply that it was not well developed or .

    Eventually half the world converted to most “hi-tech” form of the Jewish religion (Christianity) and another half to the hi-tech version of the Indian religion (Buddhism). In Japan and China, the Indian religions were fused more carefully to native religions, without wiping the latter.

    Whereas in Europe, – religious hard-drive really was mostly wiped – and beliefs around Zeus/Thor/Perun or Devana/Diana/Artemis, only survive as literary and artistic inspirations, in the secular culture (and only because the Renaissance has re-introduced to our culture).

    Whether this showed an inferiority of the ancient religions? Perhaps, in terms of the ability to believe in such gods literally – if you read Plato’s dialogues, they are often joking about the native gods, and provide an impression that serious people in Athens view these gods as a metaphor, while only simple people can believe them. On the other hand, e.g. Greeks had been the world’s most culturally fertile race under their absurd native religion, and since its loss has been a culturally quite barren people even when not occupied by foreign powers.

    • Agree: utu, AaronB
    • Replies: @Simpleguest
  155. @Jatt Arya

    Did you praise incest? Powerful.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  156. Dmitry says:
    @128

    Since the 1990s in Russia/Ukraine, salaries have been very weak in comparison to Western countries.

    In Russia, after the 2000s, – the vast increase in oil commodity prices has flooded the country with money, creating a lot of additional jobs that “Russians will not do”, at least in certain cities (construction, street cleaning, tax driver). As a result, Russian cities was flooded with Central Asian, Caucasian and Ukrainian labour.

    Although they go to Russia because the border is open to them – if they had open borders to Western Europe, they would go there instead.

    USSR and the Eastern blockwas not swamped by third

    USSR had very strict regulation of peoples’ movement. It was the opposite of “open borders” of today. So not just other Soviet peoples, like Tajiks or Uzbeks, can just move to Moscow, but even Russians in nearby cities cannot go easily to live where they want.

    There was sponsorship though of students from the third world to study in Russia, and there were always thousands of such African/Arab/Indian students (as it continues today on a smaller scale) in certain cities like Moscow. After completion of studies, these third world students usually will use the qualification to try to immigrate to the West.

  157. @Jatt Arya

    Yes, we Mongols learned so well that we created an entire form of dining revolving around cuts of beef.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  158. utu says:

    OT: Sweden admits it DID get it wrong on coronavirus: Expert behind country’s refusal to enter lockdown says he would have imposed tougher restrictions ‘if we knew what we know now’
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8383293/Sweden-admits-DID-wrong-coronavirus.html

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Jaakko Raipala
  159. Jatt Arya says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    That’s why you got BTFO’d by Khilji||

  160. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Is the purpose of the lockdown to suppress the existence of virus among humans, or just to slow its spread through the population?

    There’s a lot of controversy about Sweden’s strategy to “embrace” the virus.

    However, the strategy of lockdown in UK, USA and Russia, seems to be unambitious goal of “flatten the curve” (slow the virus spread through the population), rather than end the spread itself.

    Whereas with lockdown in China or South Korea, there was more ambitious goal to end the epidemic itself (at least inside China).

    Sweden’s view is particularly extreme and shocking, but it’s within a continuum with UK, USA and Russia. The greater divergence is with the view in China (or perhaps South Korea), where the ambition has been to eliminate the virus in the population.

    By the way, I’m quite sure the Chinese ambition, is the more sensible one. We can also see evidence of second wave already, in some countries which exited the lockdown without sufficiently suppressing the first wave.

    For example, in Iran and Israel, there seems already a second wave of the epidemic happening now.

    • Replies: @utu
  161. @Dmitry

    However, something deleted on the hard-drive, does not always imply that it was not well developed or .

    Yes. Basically, that is what I was trying to say.
    The very fact that Christian names needed to be customised testifies to the fact that you deal with an entity that has its own values and merit others through its own perspective.

    This was not specific only to Slavs, though. Many other pre-christian “barbarians” like Celts, Germanics etc. retained their ethnic (tribal) personal names long after adopting christianity.

    They started disapearing at the same time (10th, 11th century) as with Slavs i.e. when christianity was eventually and firmly consolidated.

  162. @utu

    And he immediately gave another interview where he claims that he was misquoted and that he believes that Sweden has had a better policy than most European countries.

    Obviously he is not a professional politician or otherwise used to talking to media so he didn’t understand that a journalist will turn “obviously you always adjust your policies as new information comes and we’d change a few things differently if we had known more” into “we were wrong about everything and regret everything we did”.

  163. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    For some reasons the virus elimination strategy was not put on the table as an option with the exception of few countries in Asia and New Zealand. I wrote several comments about it. More recently this one in response to your comment:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/ideological-heterogeneity/#comment-3922060

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  164. @Daniel Chieh

    I think the Vedas (or some other Sanskrit ritual) also involved a woman having sex with a horse. No wonder they were able to invent spaceships and genetic engineering thousands of years ago.

  165. @Jatt Arya

    The Aryans who conquered the pygmy natives of your country had a religion revolving around cattle sacrifice.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  166. utu says:

    Gadhimai festival in Nepal

    It is estimated that 50,000 animals were sacrificed during the Gadhimai festival of 2009

  167. @AP

    Average truck driver wage in the USA is about $45,000 but the Russians and Ukrainians make more than that:

    You’d think long haul drivers make more, because of a combo of hazard pay from insufficient rest and the fact that you never get to sleep in your own bed.

  168. @Dmitry

    That is not exactly the reputation of Italians in the UK. I am myself born to Neapolitan parents in London and there is really a very wide representation of Italians across the city and the country.

    Plenty of northerners, southerners and everything in between. Many software engineers who come to get paid double what they would in Milan, but also many 20-something kids who follow the ‘English/London dream’ and end up working as a cook in restaurant chain ‘Bill’s’ like my cousin lol.

    I certainly wouldn’t say ‘nerdy girls who like Harry Potter’ is the first thing that people associate Italians in the UK with. It’s still the usual stereotypes; pizza (food industry in general), passion, football.

    • Agree: Kent Nationalist
  169. Jatt Arya says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    No one has time for a dead & dying white race||

  170. Lowe says:
    @Europe Europa

    Yes, many whites do idolize blacks. Not just in the US, though it is especially bad here. They brag about how they somehow stood up for some of them, once, and they make every possible excuse for rampant black criminality.

    It is deeply revolting, and makes it clear that many people deserve every bad thing they get, and more.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for places to move, for an American? Seeing our leaders crawl on their bellies for a scumbag who died in the gutter makes me doubt I can continue to live here.

    Any place with a significant tech industry? How about India? Have any of you tried this?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  171. @Jatt Arya

    Then why don’t you go back to the comments section of an Indian blog?

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  172. @Lowe

    Going to India is a very bad idea.

  173. @Jatt Arya

    Sorry to disappoint you but there are still over 10 million births to ethnic European babies each year across Europe and the Americas. This year, myself and 4 of my first cousins alone will be welcoming 5 more representatives of the greatest people the world has ever seen! Sure, we’re no longer going to be 20% of the world population, but then again we never were for all of history until the 1800’s.

    For reference, there were 15 million Chinese births last year and I don’t hear much being said about that people disappearing!

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  174. Jatt Arya says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    This is, why don’t you find a white blog to troll?

    After all, getting kicked out of formerly white spaces should be familiar to you||

    Being so close to London and all||

  175. Jatt Arya says:
    @Pumblechook

    Your optimism is laudable,

    Your imperialist belief in women’s rights, gay rights, muslim rights & especially black rights is not||

    I don’t want to hear how a simple peasent like you has nothing to do with it||

    10 million births to ethnic European babies

    In my species, adults give birth to children||
    I guess you must have advanced so far that this doesn’t happen anymore||

    • Replies: @Pumblechook
    , @Daniel Chieh
  176. @Jatt Arya

    Indians eh, sometimes you can only laugh at them!

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  177. @Ano4

    Invoking “Turkic admixture” is stupid, as the original Turks already carried R1a. Indo-Eueopeans were a part of the ethnic formation of early Turks, who mostly carried haplogroups R1a, R1b, J and other West Eurasian haplogroups. Their maternal lineages is where their East Asian ancestry came from.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  178. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    I knew a guy who got less than 500 on the math part of the SAT, but got a perfect verbal score. He had a really idiosyncratic way of speaking. People would imitate him without even trying to mimic his voice, or mentioning his name, and I would know that they were imitating him. Perhaps, contrary to expectations, he was a very good cartoonist – though I’m not sure if he could draw realistic images or not.

    The math part of the SAT was not at all complicated. I think I had more difficult math in the 8th grade, so I definitely believe that some people have verbal tilt.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  179. Jatt Arya says:
    @Pumblechook

    Idk, I’d never marry 4 of my first cousins||

  180. @Jatt Arya

    But you believe in cow rights, so that’s only a short step to giving all heifers rights.

  181. songbird says:
    @128

    Many communist nations, being in the orbit of larger communist countries, owed what legitimacy or what independence they had to the fact that they were ethnostates, or else, in the case of Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia, had local native populations.

    The heavy anticolonialist rhetoric meant that they were able to hold a utopian view of Africa – that it could develop on its own, if only the nefarious influence of the US was removed. Many former colonies had not been independent for very long at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was easier for one to delude oneself at that time. Universal suffrage only came to South Africa in 1994.

    At the time of the 1965 immigration act, the USSR was making a lot of consumer sacrifices for its space program. The West had a higher standard of living, and so competitive advantage in attracting people, and its lack of command economy meant that it was nimble enough to allow for large scale arrivals, without any immediate fall in the standard of living, unlike the USSR which had a chronic housing shortage, even under the process of prefab construction.

    The wealth created by capitalism was great enough to create perverse incentives, on both a private and public level. The elites of East Germany were not above the profit motive – they traded East Germans to West Germany for hard currency, but they probably could not make money off importing blacks.

  182. @Europe Europa

    A NYC councilman, one Mark Levine, just blamed the police presence for spreading covid.

    These people will straight up piss in your face and tell you it’s raining.

  183. @AP

    Okay, so you pushed back Ukrainian identity to fifty years earlier, give or take, but you’re still playing his game. You’re still conceding that the antiquity of an ethnic pedigree establishes its legitimacy.

    It’s understandable, of course. One of the first moves any nationalist movement makes is to date the origin of the nation as far back in the past as possible. Ancient origins are always more satisfying. But in many cases this mean you’re always going to come off second best with respect to rival ethnic identities, especially those vying for your loyalties.

  184. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    math part of the SAT

    I don’t know SAT. But I researched about the GRE a little.

    Yes, on one hand, this actual maths component is absurdly easy for the prepared candidate, but it has trick and confusing questions, so that people should hire a coach to prepare you.

    In order words, the test is creating an industry of coaches, to teach you about the trick questions.

    The useful thing about GRE test, is not to actually test people, but to create jobs in the testing industry – e.g. for each person hired to write the trick questions, another thousand jobs are created to teach youth about the existence of the trick questions.

    perfect verbal score.

    It’s just testing things like vocabulary in English. How can they use this test on native English people?

    I can attain a very high score in the GRE verbal, and I’m not even that good with English. If it’s a serious book, I still need to open word reference.

    • Replies: @songbird
  185. Ano4 says:
    @JohnPlywood

    LOL

    This is absolute bullshit.

    Also define:

    original Turks

    I feel I’ll be reading a lot of alternative history with Orkhon Runes and Ashina clan warriors.

    Please start entertaining me!

    LOL

    (BTW you probably don’t know but “Ashina” is the Tokharian cognate of Turkish “Gök”, i.e. Blue, and what is the Russian cognate for the Turkish “Gök” I wonder?)

    Hint it is quite similar to Ashina…

    Also what is the Y haplogroup of the Pazyryk Scytian mummies again?

    And the proto-Tocharian ones from Xinjiang?

    And Sintashta warriors that were roaming the great steppes well before Turks appeared on history’s radar?

    Pray answer…

    LOL

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  186. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    This idea that the lack of epidemic suppression, as a conspiracy theory against China? Then why is Russia viewing lockdown as having only the unambitious kind of goal “flatten the curve”, instead of a Chinese/Australian/New Zealand/South Korea, et al, attempt to extinguish the epidemic?

    Interstate relations between Russia and China are quite good at the moment, and there is no particular motive for the authorities to increase populations’ anger against China by intentionally failing to control an epidemic.

    If you judge the lockdown in Russia, from the view of “flattening the curve”, then it is quite successful so far.

    On the other hand, from the point of view of extinguishing the epidemic (in the way China, South Korea, New Zealand), then the response of the authorities in Russia would be a failure.

    I’m more towards the latter view. If the epidemic is not extinguished sufficiently now, it will probably be difficult to stop a second wave in October. The current trajectory seems that embers will burn at a slow rate through the summer, and re-ignite in autumn. (Although second waves in Iran and Israel, did not even need to wait for autumn weather – in Israel just re-opening schools was enough to begin the second wave).

    • Replies: @utu
    , @melanf
    , @melanf
  187. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    “This idea that the lack of epidemic suppression, as a conspiracy theory against China? ” – Stupidity and incompetence alone were insufficient to account for the lack of epidemic suppression, so I had to go deeper.

  188. @melanf

    Again, you misrepresent Krylov said, based on your animosity towards him. Such comments were made as troll posts, often on social media, and do not reflect the substance of his life’s work. E.g., if I was to retire from punditry tomorrow, it would be like portraying me as a Chapo Trap House radical activist, based on my trolling SJW posts on Twitter in the past couple of days.

    • Replies: @melanf
  189. melanf says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Such comments were made as troll posts, often on social media, and do not reflect the substance of his life’s work.

    In fact, this was the essence of his work – to discredit the name “Russian nationalist”. Perhaps Krylov himself considered his statements a clever trolling, but in reality he only made odious those ideas for which he allegedly fought.

    Russian nationalism’s greatest tragedy is that when people say “Russian nationalist” they think of Prosvirnin or Krylov, or even skinheads. We should change this situation.”
    https://saninartem.livejournal.com/16010.html

    This is true

  190. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    On the other hand, from the point of view of extinguishing the epidemic (in the way China, South Korea, New Zealand), then the response of the authorities in Russia would be a failure.

    Well South Korea has not been able to completely suppress the epidemic

    and the difference here is rather not in the actions of the authorities, but in the actions of society. Although it may be a matter of the ability of the government to force citizens to do what they do not want to do. I can’t say for the whole of Russia, but the authorities in St. Petersburg turned out to be crypto-Swedes, and we followed the Swedish path of complete voluntary anti-epidemic measures.

  191. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    the test is creating an industry of coaches, to teach you about the trick questions.

    Yes, it is a profitable industry as are the tests themselves. An AP test costs $94 now. To a European, that probably seems crazy, but an American is programmed to think that he is saving big money, if he can get credit for a college class by taking an AP exam, which is probably true as the book for the class is likely to cost more than that, which is another scam.

    It’s just testing things like vocabulary in English. How can they use this test on native English people?

    It has been so long, and I have taken so many different tests, I barely remember anything that was on it, but I think it was supposed to include a bit of logic. In my day, they had analogies. A lot of school was built around vocabulary, but natives received a wide range of scores.

    And there were state tests too, which were a great circus. We spent days taking them. I think a lot of the idea behind it was an attempt to elevate blacks. And you wouldn’t believe it, but you’d be assigned essays on tests about black ladies and crap like that. A lot of these essays were tests about the ability to BS. So much of the education system in the US is built around race, it really is incredible to conceive of it in terms of dollars and manhours wasted.

  192. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    Now it is clear that the only strategy for humanity is to delay the development of the epidemic as much as possible, waiting for the coronavirus to be crushed with the help of a vaccine/effective mass tests/drugs… Complete suppression of the coronavirus by means of strict isolation measures in one country gives only a temporary result – the coronavirus will inevitably be imported again from another country.
    For this reason, Sweden and China are different versions of the same strategy.
    What is really surprising is the failure of the United States and England with their excellent science. I expected that these countries would be the first in the world to suppress the coronavirus through tests that detect the infection at an early stage. But alas.
    Russia has a lot of problems with science, but even the Russian science was (at the moment) are much more effective in the fight against the epidemic

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @AnonFromTN
    , @EldnahYm
  193. @128

    Though it will be forever an unknown, I think a USSR and Communist sphere that had been shaped by Trotsky’s beliefs rather than Stalin’s “conservatism” would have gone much further in multicultural experiments than a few Vietnamese refugees in East Germany and Czechia.

    I would also note that while many ordinary D-Day soldiers held quite “fascistic” views by today’s standards, there was already upper-class support for “anti-racism”.*

    Ex. Benedict and Weltfish’s 1943 pamphlet “Races of Mankind”, from Wikipedia:

    One of Benedict’s lesser-known works was a pamphlet “The Races of Mankind” which she wrote with her colleague at the Columbia University Department of Anthropology, Gene Weltfish. This pamphlet was intended for American troops and set forth, in simple language with cartoon illustrations, the scientific case against racist beliefs.

    “The world is shrinking,” begin Benedict and Weltfish. “Thirty-four nations are now united in a common cause—victory over Axis aggression, the military destruction of fascism” (p. 1).

    The nations united against fascism, they continue, include “the most different physical types of men.”

    And the writers explicate, in section after section, the best evidence they knew for human equality. They want to encourage all these types of people to join together and not fight amongst themselves. “[A]ll the peoples of the earth”, they point out, “are a single family and have a common origin.” We all have just so many teeth, so many molars, just so many little bones and muscles—so we can only have come from one set of ancestors no matter what our color, the shape of our head, the texture of our hair. “The races of mankind are what the Bible says they are—brothers. In their bodies is the record of their brotherhood.”

    “Anti-racism” had professional agitators by the 19th century, as seen by Jean Finot (in reality Warsaw-born Finckelhaus) who helped organise the 1911 London Universal Races Congress and is a mirror of the German condemnation of Anglo-French Zivilisation.

    * I agree, however, that there were powerful entities who sacrificed all their other beliefs for the sake of defeating communism.

  194. @Ano4

    What the fuck is your problem, you god damned idiot?

    You basically just made the exact point I was making, for me, while at the same time calling it “bullshit”.

    R1a Indo-Europeans mixed in to the ancestors of Turks. The oldest Turks (Gokturks) had R1a. Even older groups in East Asia (Xiongnu, who are considered proto-Turks) had R1a, R1b, J, E1b, etc. R1a, J, and R1b are the dominant haplogroups among Turks.

    Go ahead and slap yourself in front of a mirror for making this embarrassment of a post.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  195. Ano4 says:
    @JohnPlywood

    Do you know what is called chronology?

    Can you estimate when different Central Asian cultures formed and how they compare and correlate?

    The answer is obviously no.

    Otherwise you would easily grasp that the appearance of Turks is a relatively recent phenomenon.

    R1b Afanasievo and R1a Andronovo cultures’ people lived in these territories for thousands of years prior to the first Turkish khaganate appearance.

    They spoke Indo-European languages.

    Okunevo culture (mainly Y haplogroups Q and N) is where the earliest roots of the proto Turkish populations are to be found, well before the Xiongnu Huns that you mistakenly take for the origin of Turks.

    If you took a couple of minutes to surf the web you would have instantly understood that describing R1a and R1b people as “original Turks ” as you did is an utter display of a complete lack of knowledge.

    But you did name them “original Turks” in your first reply.

    Which shows the basic scale of your ignorance.

    And calling me names doesn’t make you any smarter, nor does it make you appear any more credible.

    These are tactics to employ in a kids’ discussion on 4Chan, not in a grownups’debate about important historical developments that shaped the evolution of Eurasia for at least 5000 years.

    Now go and read.

    The origin of the widespread Scythian culture has long been debated in Eurasian archaeology. The northern Black Sea steppe was originally considered the homeland and centre of the Scythians3 until Terenozhkin formulated the hypothesis of a Central Asian origin4. On the other hand, evidence supporting an east Eurasian origin includes the kurgan Arzhan 1 in Tuva5, which is considered the earliest Scythian kurgan5. Dating of additional burial sites situated in east and west Eurasia confirmed eastern kurgans as older than their western counterparts6,7. Additionally, elements of the characteristic ‘Animal Style’ dated to the tenth century BCE1,4 were found in the region of the Yenisei river and modern-day China, supporting the early presence of Scythian culture in the East.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5337992/

    This one should be easy enough for even you to understand.

    And remember, this is just one single article that proves your outlook is in essence absolutely asinine.

    And there are dozens more out there waiting for you to read them and educate yourself.

    You should thank me and admit that you made a mistake.

    But given the depth of your ignorance, and accounting for the heights of your arrogance, I expect that you will fail to recognize just how wrong you are.

    Be well!

    🙂

  196. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    Russia has a lot of problems with science, but even the Russian science was (at the moment) are much more effective in the fight against the epidemic

    In Russia it’s the same goal for lockdown as the UK and USA – which is “flatten the curve” (slow a spread of the virus through the population) and push a peak of the first wave to the summer.

    From this perspective, there has been much more success in Russia, than in the UK and USA.

    The reason, is not related to science ability, but because the lockdown has started at earlier stage in epidemic in Russia (which was delayed by early travel bans), and behaviour of population to comply with the lockdown and social distancing is much better in Russia, than in UK and USA.

    surprising is the failure of the United States and England with their excellent science. I expected that these countries would be the first in the world to suppress the coronavirus

    Aside from vaccines, science does not have “magic cures” against new virus epidemics. Testing is useful for surveillance of the epidemic and identifying the people who need to be quarantined,

    At the beginning stage of the epidemic, “track and trace” (quarantine of all people exposed to known infected people), can suppress the virus outbreak, if the authorities are lucky.

    Ultimately, without vaccine or population immunity, a virus has to be suppressed by physical barriers – travel ban, quarantines and PPE.

    I was surprised by the lack of PPE stockpiles, or interest in its use for civilians in USA, as they are leaders in development and regulation of PPE for industry. A virus can just be treated like a hazardous industrial substance (chemical leak), and all civilians with physical proximity to it should have been equipped with PPE.

    In addition, cities with infections should have been immediately quarantined by the military, to limit the scale of the liquidation operation, and allow the economy to continue at full capacity in the other cities of the country.

    Stockpile of a few million full face masks and filters (which is specialized by American companies like Mine Safety Appliances) could have then been distributed to the population of such quarantined cities.

    Complete suppression of the coronavirus by means of strict isolation measures in one country gives only a temporary result – the coronavirus will inevitably be imported again from another country

    If there is surveillance for the virus (which there is most countries now), re-imported virus outbreaks begins at a low level where it is easier to suppress with “track and trace”, and quarantine of the people exposed to the infected person.

    This is also where we can see an advantage of South Korea…

    South Korea has not been able to completely suppress the epidemic

    Look at how low the numbers are for South Korea – its economy is open now, and it is still only around 50 new cases each day. At this level, such a second wave can be logistically possible to contain with “track and trace”, as well as local quarantines, without shutting down the country’s economy.

    Compare in Iran where they had “flatten the curve” in the first wave. It will be probably logistically impossible to “track and trace” with such numbers. Probably, the option in Iran will be to shut down large parts of the economy again.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @melanf
  197. @melanf

    What is really surprising is the failure of the United States and England with their excellent science. I expected that these countries would be the first in the world to suppress the coronavirus through tests that detect the infection at an early stage. But alas.

    Science has nothing to do with it. Fighting the epidemic is no rocket science. This was a failure of the governments at all levels. Federal government did essentially nothing (except stupid and contradictory Trump’s tweets), whereas state governments in most states were just as inept and clueless. Several states where the administrations did something reasonable fared a lot better than NY, NJ, or MA. Again, most of the states that responded reasonably well are not known for their science, whereas NY, which produces probably more high-quality science per resident than any other state, did abysmally.

  198. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    The reason, is not related to science ability, but because the lockdown has started at earlier stage in epidemic in Russia

    Russia started mass testing earlier than the United States or England, and did more tests per capita (the same applies to many countries, including Portugal, for example). This is a real failure of the us and British authorities

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  199. EldnahYm says:
    @melanf

    What is really surprising is the failure of the United States and England with their excellent science. I expected that these countries would be the first in the world to suppress the coronavirus through tests that detect the infection at an early stage. But alas.

    The public health authorities in the U.S.(I assume the U.K. is the same) are not competent people. Whatever the level of overall science in the country, many of the people at the top in public health are imbeciles.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  200. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    failure of the us and British

    Lower testing in the UK, was an intentional policy choice – as they decide all they want is to “flatten the curve”.

    Here is 13 March 2020, UK chief scientist – explains that they only want to reduce hospital overloading.

    Russia started mass testing earlier than the United States or England, and did more tests per capita (the same applies to many countries

    In UK, it was not because of lack of testing – they could have lockdown earlier, but intentionally have it later, because they just want to “flatten the curve” of the first wave.

    If you read in the top “Stay home -> Protect the NHS -> Save Lives”.

    Their intention “Protect the NHS” – it refers to not overloading NHS capacity.

    Partly this was because of lack of mass testing – although probably only a difference of days earlier lockdown.
    https://bylinetimes.com/2020/06/01/the-lost-march-how-the-uk-governments-covid-19-strategy-fell-apart/

    • Replies: @melanf
  201. Dmitry says:
    @EldnahYm

    Yes.

    But the strange thing is why in UK, USA and Russia, have this unambitious goal (slow the speed of virus spread, but accept an inevitable spread through the population), instead of the normal goal of lockdown in countries like China/New Zealand/Australia/South Korea (to extinguish the epidemic)?

    In terms of the exiting lockdown and avoiding second wave, it makes no sense. It is much more difficult to exit lockdown, and avoid second wave, when the first wave is not suppressed well.

    On the other hand, the level of infection of the first is still not nearly high enough for herd immunity, even in New York, London or Milan.

    Lockdown is also expensive – so while it is justifiable if the goal is to prevent an epidemic, it’s more difficult to justify when you just plan to slow the speed of spread of epidemic.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  202. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    Lower testing in the UK, was an intentional policy choice – as they decide all they want is to “flatten the curve”.

    It is obvious that for countries with advanced science, the easiest way to flatten the curvе is testing, which makes it possible to isolate infected people and sharply slow down the growth of infection without lockdown, universal wearing of masks, etc., etc. In this regard from the point of view of the stated goals the actions of theUS and British authorities were a complete failure

  203. EldnahYm says:
    @Dmitry

    But the strange thing is why in UK, USA and Russia, have this unambitious goal (slow the speed of virus spread, but accept an inevitable spread through the population), instead of the normal goal of lockdown in countries like China/New Zealand/Australia/South Korea (to extinguish the epidemic)?

    In terms of the exiting lockdown and avoiding second wave, it makes no sense. It is much more difficult to exit lockdown, and avoid second wave, when the first wave is not suppressed well.

    On the other hand, the level of infection of the first is still not nearly high enough for herd immunity, even in New York, London or Milan.

    Lockdown is also expensive – so while it is justifiable if the goal is to prevent an epidemic, it’s more difficult to justify when you just plan to slow the speed of spread of epidemic.

    My assumption is that many of the people making the decisions in the U.S. and U.K. actually believed that the virus could not realistically be stopped. When I see people arguing that quarantines are not effective for example, it indicates to me these are not people capable of dealing with an epidemic.

    I agree with everything you say, but I doubt the people making decisions were thinking in the terms you are. They implemented lock down probably as a last ditch “oh shit” measure, probably because they saw other countries implementing lockdowns(though I doubt they will admit this, because they don’t want to say they were copying the Chinese). So while it’s true that lockdown is more expensive, by the time that dawns on the cretinous officials(if it ever does), it’s already too late.

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