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Within countries, anti-vaxxer sentiment tends to fall with rising IQ (e.g. white males with no degree see no difference in risk between contracting COVID-19 and getting vaxxed, barely higher than the numbers for Blacks and Hispanics, while Whites with a degree give the factually correct answer).

However, between countries, there seems to be no such correlation. If anything, it is an inverse one. To take a related example for which we have international polls, the countries of the Third World almost universally support vaccinating children, while the countries with the most anti-vaxxer sentiments famously tend to be an odd medley of First and Second ones (most notably, France, Japan, and the f.USSR sphere).

Why the difference? Probably the most obvious one is that so far as many Third Worlders, it’s a clear-cut case of whom to believe, Internet conspiracy people or their lying eyes (namely, having had vast mortality reductions through suppression of once endemic diseases within living memory). In the industrialized world, both the first world and most of the former socialist bloc, this process happened much earlier and has become part of “background” life. It is thus an issue that has been largely relegated into the realm of political signaling, e.g. displaying disaffection with the Establishment (rightoids and hippies in the West, sovoks in Russia… I don’t know who their equivalents are in Japan).

That this is accurate is suggested by the fact that Western liberal normies go anti-vax when it comes to Sputnik V (as it signals Russophobia).

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Anti-Vaccination, Anti-Vaxx, Corona, Signaling 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

    • Replies: @Archimedes
    @Anatoly Karlin

    One interesting thing to note is that China seems more interested in using "Inactivated Virus" vaccines than mRNA or AdenoVirus vectors. To my knowledge, China has not approved Sputnik V for use. Is this China just being slow to approve, or does it show a more vaccine skeptical government? It's an interesting topic that doesn't get discussed much. They do have 1 adenovirus vaccine approved and also a adjuvanted protein subunit based vaccine approved. Do any commenters have a take on this?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  2. For Bolsorano, becoming a successful paratrooper leader requires a fair bit of intelligence, or at least a good sense of feeling out the battlefield?

    • Replies: @Passer by
    @Znzn

    Bolsonaro is certainly politically ignorant. Lashing out at Russia and China (who do not care who rules a country) vs bootlicking the highly ideological US (whose liberal elites hate him and want him gone).

    One can write a whole article about rightoid regimes around the world not getting the liberal take over of the US, what the US is promoting around the world, and not understanding the regime change implications of it.

    Met thinks Poland is the next place for a liberal revolution attempt. How do these retards can imagine can attack LGBT, refugees and ban abortion while being dependent on ever more liberal USA, Germany and Brussels, i don't know.

    If Greens win the German election things will get very hot for rightoids in Eastern Europe. A Germany + USA combo has huge power within Europe and will crack down on them. Only those right near Russia (Ukraine) might be temporarily spared, solely due to tactical reasons.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Passer by
    @Znzn

    Btw Anvisa recently rejected the Sputnik vaccine and made a scandal about it, under american orders. Meanwhile the Corona virus situation in Brazil is a shitshow.

    These is a reason why these people are third world retards, and will remain so for a long time.


    Bolsonaro: Let's destroy Brazil's economy and demographics only in order to please a regime that hates me and wants me gone, in its fight with a sympathetic to me country.
     
    , @Brás Cubas
    @Znzn

    In one of the exercises during his paratrooper course Bolsonaro suffered an 8 meter-high fall. There was a strong wind that day which made him lose control of his parachute. The wind threw him into a building wall whence he fell into the ground breaking both arms and ankles.

    Bolsonaro já escapou da morte na década de 1980 durante curso de paraquedismo
    https://extra.globo.com/noticias/brasil/bolsonaro-ja-escapou-da-morte-na-decada-de-1980-durante-curso-de-paraquedismo-23049600.html

    I'm not saying he was necessarily an incompetent paratrooper, of course.

    As for his IQ, it is obviously not very high, and this seems to be an almost unanimous opinion (he used to have a bad reputation even among the military, and former president Geisel described him as a "bad military"). But his alleged anti-vaxxing must be put in context. He is a military, and as such has a culture of survival-of-the-fittest. Also, the WHO chief himself admitted there is a vaccine apartheid going on. Which means it has not exactly been easy to buy Covid-19 vaccines if you are a poor country. Bolsonaro's situation is complicated by his rightwing pro-American stance, which made him reluctant at first to buy the Chinese vaccines. As for the Russian vaccine, the situation is murky, I think. There has even been a story in the Washington Post reporting that there was pressure from the U.S. in this matter (the Sputnik V affair in Brazil is an ongoing one whose end I cannot predict):

    U.S. officials pushed Brazil to reject Russia’s coronavirus vaccine, according to HHS report
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/03/16/hhs-brazil-sputnik-russia/

    Anyway, I think Karlin is more properly referring to IQ vs. Anti-vaxxing in ordinary people, not people in a position of power whose motives and discourse are colored by considerably more complex factors.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Znzn

  3. give the factually correct answer

    There are no statistics that haven’t been cooked, so how is anyone to come to a rational logical conclusion on what’s real? There can be no factually correct answer when there are no facts to consider.

    Given that all the ‘vaccines’ have been rushed to market and the manufacturers are shielded from all liability, I contend one has to be incredibly stupid to take the jab and I’m in the top 2% in IQ.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @RoatanBill


    I’m in the top 2% in IQ.
     
    I bet you watch Rick and Morty too.

    Replies: @AltSerrice

    , @Icy Blast
    @RoatanBill

    Anatoly Karlin is destroying whatever credibility he had with this intentionally insulting blather. He sounds like the sort of drone who hangs on Brian Stelter's every word - someone with a degree in social work from a government-supported American "university."

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @RoatanBill


    There are no statistics that haven’t been cooked, so how is anyone to come to a rational logical conclusion on what’s real?
     
    Here's one simple example.

    Governor Cuomo is all over the media claiming 1 million+ downloads for the NY State Excelsior Pass app.

    If you go to the Google Play store and look at the app page, only 100k+ downloads are reported.

    If they can't get this basic download count straight, why should we trust any of the other data they report?
    , @Dutch Boy
    @RoatanBill

    Not to mention that the vaccine manufacturers are criminal organizations.

  4. What about a connection between authoritarianism, democracy, and coronavirus response?

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Znzn

    Authoritarianism and "Democracy" is not mutually exclusive. See some of the US states, Canada, Britain and the EU.

    Replies: @Znzn

  5. In the picture, Italy is painted in the same way as Russia. But San Marino (having purchased the Russian vaccine) within a few weeks vaccinated the majority of the population. In Russia, people have the opportunity to be vaccinated without problems (with the same vaccine), but only 11-12% of people were vaccinated. That is, the map does not reflect the real situation.

  6. An additional consideration: The expected value of vaccination against disease decreases with the level of development of a country. For many reasons, contracting measles (for example) is more dangerous for kids from poor, chaotic countries than from prosperous, orderly countries. So it’s not just that people in developed countries haven’t forgotten how bad disease can be, but also that disease really is not as threatening when you are well-fed and have basic health care. The expected value calculation still usually comes out in favor of vaccination, but honestly, for most diseases the risk of kids not being vaccinated is rather low. In living memory, for example, everyone in the US got measles as a kid, everyone just shrugged their shoulders.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @The Big Red Scary

    People in the developed world must undergo more vaccinations and have still more pushed upon them for transparent profit incentives. For example, there is the case of the HPV vaccine. I believe it is made quasi-mandatory for children in some areas, even though the cancer that it prevents seems to only effect people with extreme lifestyles, especially in the case of males.

    I don't know what it is like in the rest of the developed world, but, in the US, big pharma companies can at times really appear to dominate the advertising industry.

    Then, in the West, there is the perception that the regime is promoting it and that the regime is pronouncedly against one's interests.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @BlackFlag
    @The Big Red Scary

    And if you live in a country were 99% of people get vaccinated for something like measles, you might as well free-ride and not get vaccinated since herd immunity will drastically reduce the probability of contracting the disease.

  7. @Znzn
    For Bolsorano, becoming a successful paratrooper leader requires a fair bit of intelligence, or at least a good sense of feeling out the battlefield?

    Replies: @Passer by, @Passer by, @Brás Cubas

    Bolsonaro is certainly politically ignorant. Lashing out at Russia and China (who do not care who rules a country) vs bootlicking the highly ideological US (whose liberal elites hate him and want him gone).

    One can write a whole article about rightoid regimes around the world not getting the liberal take over of the US, what the US is promoting around the world, and not understanding the regime change implications of it.

    Met thinks Poland is the next place for a liberal revolution attempt. How do these retards can imagine can attack LGBT, refugees and ban abortion while being dependent on ever more liberal USA, Germany and Brussels, i don’t know.

    If Greens win the German election things will get very hot for rightoids in Eastern Europe. A Germany + USA combo has huge power within Europe and will crack down on them. Only those right near Russia (Ukraine) might be temporarily spared, solely due to tactical reasons.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Passer by


    Bolsonaro...bootlicking the highly ideological US (whose liberal elites hate him and want him gone).
     
    Bolsonaro is an aspirational Third World bootlicker, there is an endless supply of them. They seek acceptance by the Western elites and their anti-liberal posturing is mostly an adolescent theatre. Being accepted is their primary dream. No matter how rich or poor, powerful or oppressed, Latin, Indian, African elites wake up each morning and know that they are still African, Indian... They try to compensate by sharing in hatred for those who the Western elites hate, whiter and more European the better. Russians always come in handy, but often it is the regular non-elite whites, Ossies in Germany, or rural whites in US.

    It is a pecking order exercise from a deep generational trauma. There isn't much anybody can do about it. Third Worlders in London or Paris also try to go Russophobic to please or to feel better about themselves. They still wake up swarthy with unruly minds and a sense of deep inferiority. Western elites feed this because it benefits them. The price they pay is that their countries are overrun by the aspirational Third Worlders of all kinds. That is not good for them in the long run, the hatreds will transfer, they already do.

    Replies: @DNS, @Znzn

  8. And you yourself signal that you are not a low IQ peasant by supporting these vaccines and eliminating nuance from your argument while ignoring it in the argument of the intelligent anti-vaxx people.

    One can appreciate vaccines in general for eliminating certain dangerous diseases and be sceptical about the Covid ones for a wide variety of reasons. Even before Covid, I was always dismissive of flu vaccines, as I’ve never got one and never get the flu, while a colleague of mine gets vaccinated every year and also has the flu every year. He is also fat while I’m in shape. At the same time I do support all the vaccines that are mandatory ever since communist times, because they are proven, they are very safe and they have saved us from a lot of misery.

    It’s all about weighing risks against one another. Considering all the deaths and side effects which are clearly underreported and undercounted for political reasons, there must certainly be a point at which if a person is young and healthy enough, the vaccine may be a bigger risk than the disease. The trick is correctly estimating that point.

    Then the long term risk is another matter as it is completely unknown, the mRNA vaccine technology is completely new and all the vaccines in general have not been tested for 10 years as it’s normally done.

    If you are old, then the calculation is completely different. I advised my own mother to take the Pfizer vaccine because even if there are long term risks, they will take a while to manifest and become a problem and the short term risk for someone above 50 and with history of respiratory diseases is a bigger issue. Thank God, there were not any side effects and everything went fine and now I no longer worry about her getting Covid, but I am still not willing to take the same vaccine myself and not because I care more about me than about her, but because the risks are quite different for someone who has not reproduced yet and who has supposedly more than half his life ahead of him, assuming average lifespan – and who should have pretty decent chances against Corona anyway.

    If Sputnik-V was available in Bulgaria I’d probably get it at some point, but with the choices being AstraZeneka, J&J and the mRNA ones, I feel like staying in shape and taking vitamin D and zinc should be enough and getting vaxxed is actually an unnecessary risk.

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon, Beckow
    • Replies: @Greta Handel
    @Spisarevski


    And you yourself signal that you are not a low IQ peasant by supporting these vaccines and eliminating nuance from your argument while ignoring it in the argument of the intelligent anti-vaxx people.
     
    Well said.

    The uninformative condescension is also a way for conformist, insecure highQ types to rationalize and cope with their second thoughts about an irrevocable decision. They crave smugly reassuring each other that those who haven’t yet decided to take the shot(s) must be anti-intellectual primitives, etc.

    Are they too scared to shut up and wait ... it ... out ... ?
    , @Beckow
    @Spisarevski


    ...signal that you are not a low IQ peasant by supporting these vaccines and eliminating nuance from your argument
     
    Another factor I have noticed is that many non-family people - either not having children or not particularly interested - are blase about sticking more chemicals in their bodies. It reflects their choice to be dead-enders, their biology changes. A lot of selfish elderly also fall into this category. Since these people are generally biologically useless (no matter what IQ they claim), it is best not to listen to them too much.

    If you eliminate nuance from a discussion about vaccines you might as well stick something in your arm every day. If vaccination is good and always outweighs any negative consequences, why not? There are clearly vaccines that are beneficial and well-tested, and there are some that are for most people redundant (incl. children), and some that might actually cause more harm than good. Corona vaccines are by definition an unknown: not fully tested and not even sure what they are supposed to prevent. They could range from a placebo to a miracle, or something that gives you a neurological storm 10 years from now. They don't know, and don't even claim to know. Sputnik is more traditional, but does it really do that much?

    It is disappointing to see our host take an unthinking position and push it mindlessly, he might not be the family-type, so what the hell, what does he have to lose?

    Replies: @Levtraro

    , @Sinotibetan
    @Spisarevski

    I agree with you that the issue of Covid vaccine is not a straightforward pro-vaxx and anti-vaxx one. So much of the pandemic is mired in politics /geopolitics and conspiracy .
    I agree that high risk groups such as older age, those with co-morbids , healthcare frontliners etc should perhaps be vaccinated , considering the risk vs benefits. AZ and J and J shouldn't be given to younger age groups - with the risk of vaccine induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia for ladies plus Gullain Barre syndrome. True , the long term side effects of mRNA vaccine is unknown.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  9. @Znzn
    For Bolsorano, becoming a successful paratrooper leader requires a fair bit of intelligence, or at least a good sense of feeling out the battlefield?

    Replies: @Passer by, @Passer by, @Brás Cubas

    Btw Anvisa recently rejected the Sputnik vaccine and made a scandal about it, under american orders. Meanwhile the Corona virus situation in Brazil is a shitshow.

    These is a reason why these people are third world retards, and will remain so for a long time.

    Bolsonaro: Let’s destroy Brazil’s economy and demographics only in order to please a regime that hates me and wants me gone, in its fight with a sympathetic to me country.

  10. @Spisarevski
    And you yourself signal that you are not a low IQ peasant by supporting these vaccines and eliminating nuance from your argument while ignoring it in the argument of the intelligent anti-vaxx people.

    One can appreciate vaccines in general for eliminating certain dangerous diseases and be sceptical about the Covid ones for a wide variety of reasons. Even before Covid, I was always dismissive of flu vaccines, as I've never got one and never get the flu, while a colleague of mine gets vaccinated every year and also has the flu every year. He is also fat while I'm in shape. At the same time I do support all the vaccines that are mandatory ever since communist times, because they are proven, they are very safe and they have saved us from a lot of misery.

    It's all about weighing risks against one another. Considering all the deaths and side effects which are clearly underreported and undercounted for political reasons, there must certainly be a point at which if a person is young and healthy enough, the vaccine may be a bigger risk than the disease. The trick is correctly estimating that point.

    Then the long term risk is another matter as it is completely unknown, the mRNA vaccine technology is completely new and all the vaccines in general have not been tested for 10 years as it's normally done.

    If you are old, then the calculation is completely different. I advised my own mother to take the Pfizer vaccine because even if there are long term risks, they will take a while to manifest and become a problem and the short term risk for someone above 50 and with history of respiratory diseases is a bigger issue. Thank God, there were not any side effects and everything went fine and now I no longer worry about her getting Covid, but I am still not willing to take the same vaccine myself and not because I care more about me than about her, but because the risks are quite different for someone who has not reproduced yet and who has supposedly more than half his life ahead of him, assuming average lifespan - and who should have pretty decent chances against Corona anyway.

    If Sputnik-V was available in Bulgaria I'd probably get it at some point, but with the choices being AstraZeneka, J&J and the mRNA ones, I feel like staying in shape and taking vitamin D and zinc should be enough and getting vaxxed is actually an unnecessary risk.

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @Beckow, @Sinotibetan

    And you yourself signal that you are not a low IQ peasant by supporting these vaccines and eliminating nuance from your argument while ignoring it in the argument of the intelligent anti-vaxx people.

    Well said.

    The uninformative condescension is also a way for conformist, insecure highQ types to rationalize and cope with their second thoughts about an irrevocable decision. They crave smugly reassuring each other that those who haven’t yet decided to take the shot(s) must be anti-intellectual primitives, etc.

    Are they too scared to shut up and wait … it … out … ?

    • Agree: Pop Warner
  11. @The Big Red Scary
    An additional consideration: The expected value of vaccination against disease decreases with the level of development of a country. For many reasons, contracting measles (for example) is more dangerous for kids from poor, chaotic countries than from prosperous, orderly countries. So it's not just that people in developed countries haven't forgotten how bad disease can be, but also that disease really is not as threatening when you are well-fed and have basic health care. The expected value calculation still usually comes out in favor of vaccination, but honestly, for most diseases the risk of kids not being vaccinated is rather low. In living memory, for example, everyone in the US got measles as a kid, everyone just shrugged their shoulders.

    Replies: @songbird, @BlackFlag

    People in the developed world must undergo more vaccinations and have still more pushed upon them for transparent profit incentives. For example, there is the case of the HPV vaccine. I believe it is made quasi-mandatory for children in some areas, even though the cancer that it prevents seems to only effect people with extreme lifestyles, especially in the case of males.

    I don’t know what it is like in the rest of the developed world, but, in the US, big pharma companies can at times really appear to dominate the advertising industry.

    Then, in the West, there is the perception that the regime is promoting it and that the regime is pronouncedly against one’s interests.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @songbird


    Then, in the West, there is the perception that the regime is promoting it and that the regime is pronouncedly against one’s interests.
     
    Look no further than the utterly cringe shilling by guys like Cuomo and DeBlasio.

    I wouldn't leave my pet rock with either one for thirty seconds.
  12. @songbird
    @The Big Red Scary

    People in the developed world must undergo more vaccinations and have still more pushed upon them for transparent profit incentives. For example, there is the case of the HPV vaccine. I believe it is made quasi-mandatory for children in some areas, even though the cancer that it prevents seems to only effect people with extreme lifestyles, especially in the case of males.

    I don't know what it is like in the rest of the developed world, but, in the US, big pharma companies can at times really appear to dominate the advertising industry.

    Then, in the West, there is the perception that the regime is promoting it and that the regime is pronouncedly against one's interests.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Then, in the West, there is the perception that the regime is promoting it and that the regime is pronouncedly against one’s interests.

    Look no further than the utterly cringe shilling by guys like Cuomo and DeBlasio.

    I wouldn’t leave my pet rock with either one for thirty seconds.

    • Agree: songbird
  13. @Znzn
    What about a connection between authoritarianism, democracy, and coronavirus response?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Authoritarianism and “Democracy” is not mutually exclusive. See some of the US states, Canada, Britain and the EU.

    • Replies: @Znzn
    @Yellowface Anon

    I mean authoritarian countries like China and Vietnam to a more limited extent can shut up the coronavirus conspiracy crowd in a way that democratic countries can not which makes differences in coronavirus response effectiveness. Probably someone like Orbador like be doing 50 years of hard labor or under solitary house arrest in a place like China. If China were not able to shut up the corona conspiracy crowd (if there is a large constituency for that in China) in early 2020 then it would be in a lot worse place than it is right now.

  14. Broadly there are two types of anti vax sentiments

    1.People conceptually opposed to vaccines because they think covid is just another flu/its all a conspiracy/it will render you infertile(#1 reason in Muslim countries)

    2.People who think due process of vaccine development was compromised and want to wait a few months to see how these vaccines effect people in real life before deciding whether to get vaccinated and which vaccine among the options available to take.

    The second type of anti vax sentiment is IMHO legitimate and cannot be equated with low IQ quite the converse.

    • Agree: Pop Warner
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Vishnugupta

    Both 1 & 2 are legitimate. Go to Global Research and see some of their contributors' articles in PCR testing; look at how Gates is bankrolling COVID vaccine development and his obsession with population control.
    (personally I'm moving between 1 & 2; I respect anyone who made their decision to vaccinate or not, while keeping in mind all the ramifications conspiracy theory-wise. I haven't decided for myself and probably some other life decisions, like employment and emigration, will force my hand)

    , @Morton's toes
    @Vishnugupta

    You left out people who have personal experience of adverse reactions to vaccinations.

    My own opinion is this is the majority. There are a bunch of people who want nothing to do with them. Medicine is (first foremost) a business.

    , @melanf
    @Vishnugupta

    There is another option: I am young and healthy, and only the old and sick die from covid. So let them be vaccinated (or die), I will not be vaccinated because I don't care about old people

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Vishnugupta


    2.People who think due process of vaccine development was compromised and want to wait a few months to see how these vaccines effect people in real life before deciding whether to get vaccinated and which vaccine among the options available to take.

    The second type of anti vax sentiment is IMHO legitimate and cannot be equated with low IQ quite the converse.
     
    I call this reasonable, but a bit cowardly behavior.

    Why not try something that will, at least superficially, alter your DNA (of course it cannot change it essentially)? Why not show some adventurous spirit?

    And why cling to your boring old body-self?

    Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead ....
    , @mike99588
    @Vishnugupta

    After reviewing material on several therapeutics we have on hand, including from cancer treatments, the data we see indicate that therapeutics are far, far better, at least for us, than even the most optimistic vaccine claims.

    Our family personally knows people who died of covid and people who died of the vaccine. I track many options. Our eyes are wide open.

    What do we have on hand?
    15 mg ivermectin pills, 10,000 iu and 50,000 iu vitamin D3 caps, EGCG, quercetin, curcumin, GSE, 1000 mg ascorbic acid TR and instant release, 30 mg zinc, 200 mg magnesium citrate and others, TR 3 & 10 mg melatonin, 250 gram IV vitamin C bottles, 100 mg thiamine, potassium TR, selenium, coQ10, 325 mg aspirin, fish oil, 500 mg niacin, 15 mg vitamin K2, molecular iodine, several anti-fibrinolytic enzymes, amongst many things. Even a gallon of 95% EtOH and 30% H2O2.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Charlie

  15. while Whites with a degree give the factually correct answer

    Factually correct??? What fact is in the report of testing results? Both the test and control groups’ incidence of COVID are nearly statistically insignificant.

    the countries of the Third World almost universally support vaccinating children, while the countries with the most anti-vaxxer sentiments famously tend to be an odd medley of First and Second ones

    Our host believes that vaccinating children for a disease that poses negligible risk to them is the correct policy direction. You’re right – only as the incentive for parents to pull their children out of the public school system and back to homeschooling.

    The reason anti-vaxxer sentiment is high in 1st and 2nd world countries is that much of the is in the improvement of basic hygiene, diet and healthcare systems – vaccination is not necessary.

    Why the difference? Probably the most obvious one is that so far as many Third Worlders, it’s a clear-cut case of whom to believe, Internet conspiracy people or their lying eyes (namely, having had vast mortality reductions through suppression of once endemic diseases within living memory).

    Decisive arguments for individual choice in vaccination, debates on the actual nature of COVID and the epidemic, exposure on how the COVID crisis is manipulated for the Great Reset agenda, and conspiracy theories; or the lying globalist press showing doom while in fact nothing outside of lockdowns is happening.

    In the industrialized world, both the first world and most of the former socialist bloc, this process happened much earlier and has become part of “background” life. It is thus an issue that has been largely relegated into the realm of political signaling, e.g. displaying disaffection with the Establishment (rightoids and hippies in the West, sovoks in Russia… I don’t know who their equivalents are in Japan).

    Lockdowns for epidemics are nearly unheard of in the developed world. Political signaling, yep, but also lots of actions in mass resistance. (I remember a small Japanese party having “COVID is just the cold” on their platform and holding “normalcy” protests. But everyone else is quite indifferent)

    Our host will be greatly helped by reading even some of our other contributors in the Science section (and for WEF, Economics and occasionally Ideology)

    • Agree: Pop Warner
  16. @Vishnugupta
    Broadly there are two types of anti vax sentiments

    1.People conceptually opposed to vaccines because they think covid is just another flu/its all a conspiracy/it will render you infertile(#1 reason in Muslim countries)

    2.People who think due process of vaccine development was compromised and want to wait a few months to see how these vaccines effect people in real life before deciding whether to get vaccinated and which vaccine among the options available to take.

    The second type of anti vax sentiment is IMHO legitimate and cannot be equated with low IQ quite the converse.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Morton's toes, @melanf, @Bardon Kaldian, @mike99588

    Both 1 & 2 are legitimate. Go to Global Research and see some of their contributors’ articles in PCR testing; look at how Gates is bankrolling COVID vaccine development and his obsession with population control.
    (personally I’m moving between 1 & 2; I respect anyone who made their decision to vaccinate or not, while keeping in mind all the ramifications conspiracy theory-wise. I haven’t decided for myself and probably some other life decisions, like employment and emigration, will force my hand)

  17. @RoatanBill
    give the factually correct answer

    There are no statistics that haven't been cooked, so how is anyone to come to a rational logical conclusion on what's real? There can be no factually correct answer when there are no facts to consider.

    Given that all the 'vaccines' have been rushed to market and the manufacturers are shielded from all liability, I contend one has to be incredibly stupid to take the jab and I'm in the top 2% in IQ.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Icy Blast, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Dutch Boy

    I’m in the top 2% in IQ.

    I bet you watch Rick and Morty too.

    • Replies: @AltSerrice
    @Alexander Turok

    To be fair, he must have a very high IQ to understand it.

  18. @Passer by
    @Znzn

    Bolsonaro is certainly politically ignorant. Lashing out at Russia and China (who do not care who rules a country) vs bootlicking the highly ideological US (whose liberal elites hate him and want him gone).

    One can write a whole article about rightoid regimes around the world not getting the liberal take over of the US, what the US is promoting around the world, and not understanding the regime change implications of it.

    Met thinks Poland is the next place for a liberal revolution attempt. How do these retards can imagine can attack LGBT, refugees and ban abortion while being dependent on ever more liberal USA, Germany and Brussels, i don't know.

    If Greens win the German election things will get very hot for rightoids in Eastern Europe. A Germany + USA combo has huge power within Europe and will crack down on them. Only those right near Russia (Ukraine) might be temporarily spared, solely due to tactical reasons.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Bolsonaro…bootlicking the highly ideological US (whose liberal elites hate him and want him gone).

    Bolsonaro is an aspirational Third World bootlicker, there is an endless supply of them. They seek acceptance by the Western elites and their anti-liberal posturing is mostly an adolescent theatre. Being accepted is their primary dream. No matter how rich or poor, powerful or oppressed, Latin, Indian, African elites wake up each morning and know that they are still African, Indian… They try to compensate by sharing in hatred for those who the Western elites hate, whiter and more European the better. Russians always come in handy, but often it is the regular non-elite whites, Ossies in Germany, or rural whites in US.

    It is a pecking order exercise from a deep generational trauma. There isn’t much anybody can do about it. Third Worlders in London or Paris also try to go Russophobic to please or to feel better about themselves. They still wake up swarthy with unruly minds and a sense of deep inferiority. Western elites feed this because it benefits them. The price they pay is that their countries are overrun by the aspirational Third Worlders of all kinds. That is not good for them in the long run, the hatreds will transfer, they already do.

    • Replies: @DNS
    @Beckow


    Third Worlders in London or Paris also try to go Russophobic to please or to feel better about themselves.
     
    Pretty much no Third Worlder has any strong opinions about Russia, the foreigners in these cosmopolitan Western cities care about Israel-Palestine and perhaps imbroglios involving their motherlands (Kashmir for example).

    The most "Russophobic" (I for one cannot imagine anyone except those who live in states on Russia's borders hating Russia and its people) people in the West are native liberals who denounce any popular backlash against their policies as the work of Russian trolls.

    To sum it all up, your theory about Third World pathology in relatrion to Russia is retarded.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Znzn
    @Beckow

    You believe dumb people can become a captain of airborne troops?

    Replies: @Beckow, @Philip Owen

  19. @Yellowface Anon
    @Znzn

    Authoritarianism and "Democracy" is not mutually exclusive. See some of the US states, Canada, Britain and the EU.

    Replies: @Znzn

    I mean authoritarian countries like China and Vietnam to a more limited extent can shut up the coronavirus conspiracy crowd in a way that democratic countries can not which makes differences in coronavirus response effectiveness. Probably someone like Orbador like be doing 50 years of hard labor or under solitary house arrest in a place like China. If China were not able to shut up the corona conspiracy crowd (if there is a large constituency for that in China) in early 2020 then it would be in a lot worse place than it is right now.

  20. I think part of it is a better awareness of the institutions involved. African countries can be easily bribed and tricked into being testing grounds for medical experimentation (and it turns out, a large portion of Americans). They still live under the idea of Western Medicine as Techno-Wizardry (with eye surgery, it sure is though.) Japan, on the other hand, is advanced enough to realize being healthy, well fed (in the nutritional, not strictly caloric sense), and with clean water is a strong enough baseline that any modification has to be utterly justified. Why take a VICP risk if one’s chances of crippling infection are actually less than the chances of a crippling reaction to an injection? This is why they stopped giving MMR shots to children.

    The third worlders would be better served by clean water, better diets (enough food\better food) and vitamins instead of a Diphtheria treatment that kills 200. Not as much money to be made there, though, making a BioFlynn-Effect Africa, or Americans (that means you too, Mexico) less fat. Idiots must be punished though, this is the way of things.

    • Replies: @blatnoi
    @Boomthorkell

    Of course, Japan did not stop giving MMR shots to children. You need it for kindergarten and school. The Japanese are not weird elves who are suddenly immune to highly infectious viruses with an R factor of 20. I think an epic, largest in the world outbreak of measles would be noticed.

  21. DNS says:
    @Beckow
    @Passer by


    Bolsonaro...bootlicking the highly ideological US (whose liberal elites hate him and want him gone).
     
    Bolsonaro is an aspirational Third World bootlicker, there is an endless supply of them. They seek acceptance by the Western elites and their anti-liberal posturing is mostly an adolescent theatre. Being accepted is their primary dream. No matter how rich or poor, powerful or oppressed, Latin, Indian, African elites wake up each morning and know that they are still African, Indian... They try to compensate by sharing in hatred for those who the Western elites hate, whiter and more European the better. Russians always come in handy, but often it is the regular non-elite whites, Ossies in Germany, or rural whites in US.

    It is a pecking order exercise from a deep generational trauma. There isn't much anybody can do about it. Third Worlders in London or Paris also try to go Russophobic to please or to feel better about themselves. They still wake up swarthy with unruly minds and a sense of deep inferiority. Western elites feed this because it benefits them. The price they pay is that their countries are overrun by the aspirational Third Worlders of all kinds. That is not good for them in the long run, the hatreds will transfer, they already do.

    Replies: @DNS, @Znzn

    Third Worlders in London or Paris also try to go Russophobic to please or to feel better about themselves.

    Pretty much no Third Worlder has any strong opinions about Russia, the foreigners in these cosmopolitan Western cities care about Israel-Palestine and perhaps imbroglios involving their motherlands (Kashmir for example).

    The most “Russophobic” (I for one cannot imagine anyone except those who live in states on Russia’s borders hating Russia and its people) people in the West are native liberals who denounce any popular backlash against their policies as the work of Russian trolls.

    To sum it all up, your theory about Third World pathology in relatrion to Russia is retarded.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @DNS

    I never said that these were strong opinions, I said they were an attempt to please the Western liberals, for most Third Worlders it is just social posturing. I also said that it is not only Russia, but all the local non-elite whites that the Third Worlders show their dislike, talk to a Turk in Germany about Ossies, or an Indian in US about rednecks. It is a failed rite of passage, they aim to ingratiate themselves with both the dominant liberals and the still powerful country-club "conservatives". So they adopt their hatreds and dislikes. And their trauma runs really deep, it almost always comes out when pushed.

    You misquote me to make your argument, did it hit too close to home? You understate the specific Western liberal hatred for Russia and illiberal eastern Europeans in general - it is not about their failed policies or trolls, nobody with 3-digit IQ actually believes the troll nonsense. They hate because who the traditional white Europeans represent and because they suspect that in the long run they will lose this fight since they are disappearing into nothingness.

  22. @Beckow
    @Passer by


    Bolsonaro...bootlicking the highly ideological US (whose liberal elites hate him and want him gone).
     
    Bolsonaro is an aspirational Third World bootlicker, there is an endless supply of them. They seek acceptance by the Western elites and their anti-liberal posturing is mostly an adolescent theatre. Being accepted is their primary dream. No matter how rich or poor, powerful or oppressed, Latin, Indian, African elites wake up each morning and know that they are still African, Indian... They try to compensate by sharing in hatred for those who the Western elites hate, whiter and more European the better. Russians always come in handy, but often it is the regular non-elite whites, Ossies in Germany, or rural whites in US.

    It is a pecking order exercise from a deep generational trauma. There isn't much anybody can do about it. Third Worlders in London or Paris also try to go Russophobic to please or to feel better about themselves. They still wake up swarthy with unruly minds and a sense of deep inferiority. Western elites feed this because it benefits them. The price they pay is that their countries are overrun by the aspirational Third Worlders of all kinds. That is not good for them in the long run, the hatreds will transfer, they already do.

    Replies: @DNS, @Znzn

    You believe dumb people can become a captain of airborne troops?

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Znzn


    ...dumb people can become a captain of airborne troops?
     
    I don't know, possibly. I didn't talk about dumb or smart, this is more in emotional sphere.
    , @Philip Owen
    @Znzn

    Absolutely. The requirement is obedience.

  23. @Vishnugupta
    Broadly there are two types of anti vax sentiments

    1.People conceptually opposed to vaccines because they think covid is just another flu/its all a conspiracy/it will render you infertile(#1 reason in Muslim countries)

    2.People who think due process of vaccine development was compromised and want to wait a few months to see how these vaccines effect people in real life before deciding whether to get vaccinated and which vaccine among the options available to take.

    The second type of anti vax sentiment is IMHO legitimate and cannot be equated with low IQ quite the converse.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Morton's toes, @melanf, @Bardon Kaldian, @mike99588

    You left out people who have personal experience of adverse reactions to vaccinations.

    My own opinion is this is the majority. There are a bunch of people who want nothing to do with them. Medicine is (first foremost) a business.

  24. Znzn says:

    If Germany or France can shut up the coronavirus conspiracy crowd like China did then its post summer Covid response would be a lot more effective, people are not considering that the Chinese government has a lot more tools in its political and social governance toolbox to convince compliance that what a country like the UK or US has, even if they wanted to. I mean assuming that the government wants to, the US government cannot even legally shut down this site, like the Chinese government sure can shut down the Chinese version of Unz.com if it wants to. The problem with democracies is that having to deal and negotiate with the political opposition saps precious time that is needed in dealing with fast moving situations like epidemics.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    @Znzn

    Chinese authorities had serious clashes with protesters and they brought in heavily armed police and military to enforce their (mistaken) lockdowns. I don't know what planet you're living on if you think the Chinese don't have tons of conspiracy theories over what their secretive government is doing.

    The whole reason behind the collapse in trust and the rise of conspiracy cultures in the West is the rise in authoritarian governance through corporate control of the internet and mass media and now increasingly through the legal system with the rise of "hate speech", "Russian misinformation" and other labels for non-elite approved opinions. Few people have experience in virology and few people are smart enough to pick up the facts easily enough to become pseudo-experts in this one issue but human beings are pretty sensitive to cues over whether they're being manipulated or not.

    The reason we had high trust societies in the West for a while was because we actually did have relatively high free speech and relatively open debates over the direction of society. The elite was mostly content with people with the money or status having more ability to broadcast their views and the counter-culture to this has been mostly focused on "raising awareness" over whatever bothers groups that don't have elite representation.

    In contrast the USSR attempted to enforce total ideological conformity and the result was a very low trust society where everyone knew that the institutions, politicians and media are completely compromised. Now that the West is becoming the new USSR we're seeing the same happen to it. Attempting to "shut down conspiracy thinking" with the magic powers of "authoritarianism" is just attempting to douse a fire with gasoline and it will have the opposite effect.

    Of course, if we had had a good solid public debate over the issue right in the beginning, we would have concluded that the corona virus is not a real crisis and requires no drastic actions.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  25. @Spisarevski
    And you yourself signal that you are not a low IQ peasant by supporting these vaccines and eliminating nuance from your argument while ignoring it in the argument of the intelligent anti-vaxx people.

    One can appreciate vaccines in general for eliminating certain dangerous diseases and be sceptical about the Covid ones for a wide variety of reasons. Even before Covid, I was always dismissive of flu vaccines, as I've never got one and never get the flu, while a colleague of mine gets vaccinated every year and also has the flu every year. He is also fat while I'm in shape. At the same time I do support all the vaccines that are mandatory ever since communist times, because they are proven, they are very safe and they have saved us from a lot of misery.

    It's all about weighing risks against one another. Considering all the deaths and side effects which are clearly underreported and undercounted for political reasons, there must certainly be a point at which if a person is young and healthy enough, the vaccine may be a bigger risk than the disease. The trick is correctly estimating that point.

    Then the long term risk is another matter as it is completely unknown, the mRNA vaccine technology is completely new and all the vaccines in general have not been tested for 10 years as it's normally done.

    If you are old, then the calculation is completely different. I advised my own mother to take the Pfizer vaccine because even if there are long term risks, they will take a while to manifest and become a problem and the short term risk for someone above 50 and with history of respiratory diseases is a bigger issue. Thank God, there were not any side effects and everything went fine and now I no longer worry about her getting Covid, but I am still not willing to take the same vaccine myself and not because I care more about me than about her, but because the risks are quite different for someone who has not reproduced yet and who has supposedly more than half his life ahead of him, assuming average lifespan - and who should have pretty decent chances against Corona anyway.

    If Sputnik-V was available in Bulgaria I'd probably get it at some point, but with the choices being AstraZeneka, J&J and the mRNA ones, I feel like staying in shape and taking vitamin D and zinc should be enough and getting vaxxed is actually an unnecessary risk.

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @Beckow, @Sinotibetan

    …signal that you are not a low IQ peasant by supporting these vaccines and eliminating nuance from your argument

    Another factor I have noticed is that many non-family people – either not having children or not particularly interested – are blase about sticking more chemicals in their bodies. It reflects their choice to be dead-enders, their biology changes. A lot of selfish elderly also fall into this category. Since these people are generally biologically useless (no matter what IQ they claim), it is best not to listen to them too much.

    If you eliminate nuance from a discussion about vaccines you might as well stick something in your arm every day. If vaccination is good and always outweighs any negative consequences, why not? There are clearly vaccines that are beneficial and well-tested, and there are some that are for most people redundant (incl. children), and some that might actually cause more harm than good. Corona vaccines are by definition an unknown: not fully tested and not even sure what they are supposed to prevent. They could range from a placebo to a miracle, or something that gives you a neurological storm 10 years from now. They don’t know, and don’t even claim to know. Sputnik is more traditional, but does it really do that much?

    It is disappointing to see our host take an unthinking position and push it mindlessly, he might not be the family-type, so what the hell, what does he have to lose?

    • Replies: @Levtraro
    @Beckow

    Agree. In addition, our host has posted info connecting IQ with vaccination as a general medical technique, not for any particular vaccine. The connection could be the opposite for COVID vaccines. I can parse right now three considerations for why would more intelligent humans, especially in the West, have more doubts about anti-COVID vaccines. (1) Anti-COVID vaccines have been rushed into use so intelligent humans may have more negative views as they assess greater risks coming from emergency approval. (2) In the West humans are being called to take vaccines some of which, perhaps the most widely used, were created with a new biotechnology (mRNA). Why would authorities give emergency approval to a new vaccine biotechnique when there are well-tested biotechniques to create vaccines? In an emergency logic dictates don't take new risks, stick to what works. Yet they are pushing the mRNA vaccines. So once again intelligent humans will have more doubts as they are more able to evaluate the risks inherent to new biotechnologies, thinking that the push to use mRNA vaccines has too much to do with business. BioNTech of the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine is a well-funded German start-up that has not yet achieved approval of any of its drugs against cancer but that achieved the big breakthrough with their COVID mRNA vaccine, for which Pfizer only provided the logistics to conduct phase 3 trials and then for mass production. (3) Why has the EU not given emergency approval to Sputnik V? This human adenovirus-vector vaccine is built with a biotechnology that has been used since the 70s, is being used to develop other vaccines and to attack tumorous cells, and has already produced one vaccine approved for general use. Also, the EU has approved other adenovirus-vector vaccines. Thus it seems the EU does not approve of Sputnik V out of political considerations and/or to support the rising star of BioNTech.

    So, given (1), (2) and (3) above, more intelligent, more aware humans, especially in the EU, are bound to have more doubts about getting vaccinated. They will wait to see how the whole thing pans out. That should not be a problem though in the larger scheme of things since the vast majority of humans will take the vaccines when they are told to, those with less abilities to evaluate the risks or with less liberty to do as they please, so eventually the whole thing will fizzle out because of herd inmunity.

  26. @Vishnugupta
    Broadly there are two types of anti vax sentiments

    1.People conceptually opposed to vaccines because they think covid is just another flu/its all a conspiracy/it will render you infertile(#1 reason in Muslim countries)

    2.People who think due process of vaccine development was compromised and want to wait a few months to see how these vaccines effect people in real life before deciding whether to get vaccinated and which vaccine among the options available to take.

    The second type of anti vax sentiment is IMHO legitimate and cannot be equated with low IQ quite the converse.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Morton's toes, @melanf, @Bardon Kaldian, @mike99588

    There is another option: I am young and healthy, and only the old and sick die from covid. So let them be vaccinated (or die), I will not be vaccinated because I don’t care about old people

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    @melanf

    This is no longer the case at least in India due to new mutant variants of this virus.

    A lot of otherwise healthy people in their 20s / 30s have died or required oxygen or ICU treatment in the past month due to these variants.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @The Alarmist

  27. @DNS
    @Beckow


    Third Worlders in London or Paris also try to go Russophobic to please or to feel better about themselves.
     
    Pretty much no Third Worlder has any strong opinions about Russia, the foreigners in these cosmopolitan Western cities care about Israel-Palestine and perhaps imbroglios involving their motherlands (Kashmir for example).

    The most "Russophobic" (I for one cannot imagine anyone except those who live in states on Russia's borders hating Russia and its people) people in the West are native liberals who denounce any popular backlash against their policies as the work of Russian trolls.

    To sum it all up, your theory about Third World pathology in relatrion to Russia is retarded.

    Replies: @Beckow

    I never said that these were strong opinions, I said they were an attempt to please the Western liberals, for most Third Worlders it is just social posturing. I also said that it is not only Russia, but all the local non-elite whites that the Third Worlders show their dislike, talk to a Turk in Germany about Ossies, or an Indian in US about rednecks. It is a failed rite of passage, they aim to ingratiate themselves with both the dominant liberals and the still powerful country-club “conservatives“. So they adopt their hatreds and dislikes. And their trauma runs really deep, it almost always comes out when pushed.

    You misquote me to make your argument, did it hit too close to home? You understate the specific Western liberal hatred for Russia and illiberal eastern Europeans in general – it is not about their failed policies or trolls, nobody with 3-digit IQ actually believes the troll nonsense. They hate because who the traditional white Europeans represent and because they suspect that in the long run they will lose this fight since they are disappearing into nothingness.

  28. @melanf
    @Vishnugupta

    There is another option: I am young and healthy, and only the old and sick die from covid. So let them be vaccinated (or die), I will not be vaccinated because I don't care about old people

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

    This is no longer the case at least in India due to new mutant variants of this virus.

    A lot of otherwise healthy people in their 20s / 30s have died or required oxygen or ICU treatment in the past month due to these variants.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Vishnugupta

    COVID "mutant" spikes tend to following vaccine rollout - see Israel.

    , @The Alarmist
    @Vishnugupta

    Funny how these variants pop up in most places shortly after they begin mass vaccination. Interesting how many of the new cases, and more than a few hospitalisations, were people recently vaccinated. By vaccinating folks with the virus, they are creating walking virus-variant factories.

    Vaccinating people in the middle of a pandemic is the height of medical malpractise.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

  29. This post is an example of the silly propaganda technique “See, all the smart people take the vax.” But it fails. As far as risk, he speaks as though it is factually measured. But the experiment to measure the risk is being conducted now, on all those who volunteer as guinea pigs. Stage 3 trials take years, that’s what’s happening now. The risk can only be measured subjectively at this point. How much do you trust the health authorities? These are the health authorities who do nothing about the epidemic of auto-immune diseases, the epidemic of diabetes, the epidemic of heart disease and other diseases of civilization, etc. Well, not exactly nothing. They exacerbate chronic conditions and promote expensive managements, not prevention.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Sparkylyle92


    They exacerbate chronic conditions and promote expensive managements, not prevention.
     
    The Western establishment's complete lack of any discussion of prevention and building a healthy, robust immune system is an enormous red flag.

    If this mess were really about concern for public health Western authorities would push preventive measures and healthy living as relentlessly as the injections.

    Instead, we have clowns like DeBlasio trying to incentivize the injections with the offer of free Shake Shack poison food.

  30. BTW, posts like this show us who is controlled opposition and who is honest. Who believes that AK really thinks the vaccines are beneficial? He’d have to be an idiot. Like iSteve, Ron Unz, Bernhard etc, when Globohomo really really wants something, they put out.

  31. It’s also an indicator that all the first and second world is rapidly descending into low trust society tiers, no thanks to American glow in the dark agitprop, the relentless pozz, the insane identity politics, scheming, and everything else that caused this distrust to appear.

    The age of malthusian industrialism will just be 1000 years (in the absolute best case) of cyberpunk Somalia, worldwide.

    The only prevention would be a eugenicist state with beating quotas for idiots.

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
  32. Mr Karlin,

    This is ad hominen argumentation and virtue signalling. Your argument as presented is thus.

    You are pro vaccination.

    More years spent in education are a signal for higher intelligence and also associated with vaccine acceptance.

    It follows that you are more intelligent.

    I am a physician. I have found that the tradespeople I engage with seem more intelligent than most of my professional colleagues. I prefer their company. At least they are willing to ask questions? That might be the result of having to make the correct decisions. It is more easily to identify the error made by a plumber or electrician than a physician error. They deal in the real 3-D world.

  33. @Znzn
    If Germany or France can shut up the coronavirus conspiracy crowd like China did then its post summer Covid response would be a lot more effective, people are not considering that the Chinese government has a lot more tools in its political and social governance toolbox to convince compliance that what a country like the UK or US has, even if they wanted to. I mean assuming that the government wants to, the US government cannot even legally shut down this site, like the Chinese government sure can shut down the Chinese version of Unz.com if it wants to. The problem with democracies is that having to deal and negotiate with the political opposition saps precious time that is needed in dealing with fast moving situations like epidemics.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala

    Chinese authorities had serious clashes with protesters and they brought in heavily armed police and military to enforce their (mistaken) lockdowns. I don’t know what planet you’re living on if you think the Chinese don’t have tons of conspiracy theories over what their secretive government is doing.

    The whole reason behind the collapse in trust and the rise of conspiracy cultures in the West is the rise in authoritarian governance through corporate control of the internet and mass media and now increasingly through the legal system with the rise of “hate speech”, “Russian misinformation” and other labels for non-elite approved opinions. Few people have experience in virology and few people are smart enough to pick up the facts easily enough to become pseudo-experts in this one issue but human beings are pretty sensitive to cues over whether they’re being manipulated or not.

    The reason we had high trust societies in the West for a while was because we actually did have relatively high free speech and relatively open debates over the direction of society. The elite was mostly content with people with the money or status having more ability to broadcast their views and the counter-culture to this has been mostly focused on “raising awareness” over whatever bothers groups that don’t have elite representation.

    In contrast the USSR attempted to enforce total ideological conformity and the result was a very low trust society where everyone knew that the institutions, politicians and media are completely compromised. Now that the West is becoming the new USSR we’re seeing the same happen to it. Attempting to “shut down conspiracy thinking” with the magic powers of “authoritarianism” is just attempting to douse a fire with gasoline and it will have the opposite effect.

    Of course, if we had had a good solid public debate over the issue right in the beginning, we would have concluded that the corona virus is not a real crisis and requires no drastic actions.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Most people debating the whole COVID thing are aware (consciously or not) that it is no longer about the epidemic in itself and the proper mitigation strategy.
    It is about using the COVID crisis to impose far-reaching societal change in the form of Great Reset agenda. The main reason anti-vaxx sentiment is very prominent nowadays is largely because of the gut reaction to new social institutions of control being rolled out from above.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  34. @Znzn
    For Bolsorano, becoming a successful paratrooper leader requires a fair bit of intelligence, or at least a good sense of feeling out the battlefield?

    Replies: @Passer by, @Passer by, @Brás Cubas

    In one of the exercises during his paratrooper course Bolsonaro suffered an 8 meter-high fall. There was a strong wind that day which made him lose control of his parachute. The wind threw him into a building wall whence he fell into the ground breaking both arms and ankles.

    Bolsonaro já escapou da morte na década de 1980 durante curso de paraquedismo
    https://extra.globo.com/noticias/brasil/bolsonaro-ja-escapou-da-morte-na-decada-de-1980-durante-curso-de-paraquedismo-23049600.html

    I’m not saying he was necessarily an incompetent paratrooper, of course.

    As for his IQ, it is obviously not very high, and this seems to be an almost unanimous opinion (he used to have a bad reputation even among the military, and former president Geisel described him as a “bad military”). But his alleged anti-vaxxing must be put in context. He is a military, and as such has a culture of survival-of-the-fittest. Also, the WHO chief himself admitted there is a vaccine apartheid going on. Which means it has not exactly been easy to buy Covid-19 vaccines if you are a poor country. Bolsonaro’s situation is complicated by his rightwing pro-American stance, which made him reluctant at first to buy the Chinese vaccines. As for the Russian vaccine, the situation is murky, I think. There has even been a story in the Washington Post reporting that there was pressure from the U.S. in this matter (the Sputnik V affair in Brazil is an ongoing one whose end I cannot predict):

    U.S. officials pushed Brazil to reject Russia’s coronavirus vaccine, according to HHS report
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/03/16/hhs-brazil-sputnik-russia/

    Anyway, I think Karlin is more properly referring to IQ vs. Anti-vaxxing in ordinary people, not people in a position of power whose motives and discourse are colored by considerably more complex factors.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Znzn
    @Brás Cubas

    Kurt Student was a pioneer of German airborne forces, and he was quite intelligent, Otto Skorzeny is also quite intelligent, at least in military affairs.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

    , @Znzn
    @Brás Cubas

    Brazil is not a poor country, and managed to vaccinate 100 million in the 2009 swine flu pandemic in much less time, also Brazil has the most organized national health care system south of the Rio Grande.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

  35. @Brás Cubas
    @Znzn

    In one of the exercises during his paratrooper course Bolsonaro suffered an 8 meter-high fall. There was a strong wind that day which made him lose control of his parachute. The wind threw him into a building wall whence he fell into the ground breaking both arms and ankles.

    Bolsonaro já escapou da morte na década de 1980 durante curso de paraquedismo
    https://extra.globo.com/noticias/brasil/bolsonaro-ja-escapou-da-morte-na-decada-de-1980-durante-curso-de-paraquedismo-23049600.html

    I'm not saying he was necessarily an incompetent paratrooper, of course.

    As for his IQ, it is obviously not very high, and this seems to be an almost unanimous opinion (he used to have a bad reputation even among the military, and former president Geisel described him as a "bad military"). But his alleged anti-vaxxing must be put in context. He is a military, and as such has a culture of survival-of-the-fittest. Also, the WHO chief himself admitted there is a vaccine apartheid going on. Which means it has not exactly been easy to buy Covid-19 vaccines if you are a poor country. Bolsonaro's situation is complicated by his rightwing pro-American stance, which made him reluctant at first to buy the Chinese vaccines. As for the Russian vaccine, the situation is murky, I think. There has even been a story in the Washington Post reporting that there was pressure from the U.S. in this matter (the Sputnik V affair in Brazil is an ongoing one whose end I cannot predict):

    U.S. officials pushed Brazil to reject Russia’s coronavirus vaccine, according to HHS report
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/03/16/hhs-brazil-sputnik-russia/

    Anyway, I think Karlin is more properly referring to IQ vs. Anti-vaxxing in ordinary people, not people in a position of power whose motives and discourse are colored by considerably more complex factors.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Znzn

    Kurt Student was a pioneer of German airborne forces, and he was quite intelligent, Otto Skorzeny is also quite intelligent, at least in military affairs.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    @Znzn

    I am not an expert in military issues, but it doesn't seem reasonable to compare those notable German officers, who fought in a World War, and a mediocre Brazilian military who was never in any war and left the army to become a mediocre politician.

    I am not saying Bolsonaro is mentally retarded, though I have encountered a few people who seriously think so; yet even among his admirers, intelligence was never the chief characteristic they praised in him.

  36. @Brás Cubas
    @Znzn

    In one of the exercises during his paratrooper course Bolsonaro suffered an 8 meter-high fall. There was a strong wind that day which made him lose control of his parachute. The wind threw him into a building wall whence he fell into the ground breaking both arms and ankles.

    Bolsonaro já escapou da morte na década de 1980 durante curso de paraquedismo
    https://extra.globo.com/noticias/brasil/bolsonaro-ja-escapou-da-morte-na-decada-de-1980-durante-curso-de-paraquedismo-23049600.html

    I'm not saying he was necessarily an incompetent paratrooper, of course.

    As for his IQ, it is obviously not very high, and this seems to be an almost unanimous opinion (he used to have a bad reputation even among the military, and former president Geisel described him as a "bad military"). But his alleged anti-vaxxing must be put in context. He is a military, and as such has a culture of survival-of-the-fittest. Also, the WHO chief himself admitted there is a vaccine apartheid going on. Which means it has not exactly been easy to buy Covid-19 vaccines if you are a poor country. Bolsonaro's situation is complicated by his rightwing pro-American stance, which made him reluctant at first to buy the Chinese vaccines. As for the Russian vaccine, the situation is murky, I think. There has even been a story in the Washington Post reporting that there was pressure from the U.S. in this matter (the Sputnik V affair in Brazil is an ongoing one whose end I cannot predict):

    U.S. officials pushed Brazil to reject Russia’s coronavirus vaccine, according to HHS report
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/03/16/hhs-brazil-sputnik-russia/

    Anyway, I think Karlin is more properly referring to IQ vs. Anti-vaxxing in ordinary people, not people in a position of power whose motives and discourse are colored by considerably more complex factors.

    Replies: @Znzn, @Znzn

    Brazil is not a poor country, and managed to vaccinate 100 million in the 2009 swine flu pandemic in much less time, also Brazil has the most organized national health care system south of the Rio Grande.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    @Znzn

    Yes, you are right to a certain extent, but as I said it's hard to entirely blame the present government for the current problems in vaccination. Brazil is not poor, as you said, but is on the fast route to becoming so, and there is a situation of Covid-19 vaccine scarcity which complicates matters. Pfizer's terms were too harsh, it seems, and the initial offer was too meager, whereas the other vaccines were met with a certain mistrust (as a matter of fact, even Pfizer was, though about its safety, whereas in the case of the Chinese one it was its efficacy).

    As I said in the other comment, Bolsonaro is a mediocre man, so that possibly has something to do with our poor vaccination performance, but I wouldn't infer that his critics would do a much better job in his place.

  37. Znzn says:

    So maybe other countries should have the required political infrastructure to bring in the army and paramilitary forces to enforce pandemic measures as well, if that is what it will really take? Maybe the USSR and the Russian Federation should learn from China as to how to properly implement an efficient authoritarian system, because clearly the Chinese are able to shut up the conspiracy mongers to the nations benefit.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    @Znzn

    Maybe you should just kill or sterilize yourself to your nations benefit. If you still defend destroying economic progress and normal life because of a flu epidemic your genes are clearly worthless and your nation would be better off without them in the pool.

    Maybe in a properly authoritarian state we could round up and shoot panic mongers like Znzn. Honestly at this point I think it would be completely justified. The misery and suffering that your types have caused over the past year is far worse than anything the corona virus could ever do and you deserve severe punishment.

    China, for what it's worth, had an excuse to over-react as the disease was new and found there first. They indeed started canceling their measures fast while the West is still stuck with this completely insanity, at least on government level (nobody seems to actually care what the government is saying at this point, people are out partying and ignoring all guidelines).

  38. @Znzn
    @Brás Cubas

    Kurt Student was a pioneer of German airborne forces, and he was quite intelligent, Otto Skorzeny is also quite intelligent, at least in military affairs.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

    I am not an expert in military issues, but it doesn’t seem reasonable to compare those notable German officers, who fought in a World War, and a mediocre Brazilian military who was never in any war and left the army to become a mediocre politician.

    I am not saying Bolsonaro is mentally retarded, though I have encountered a few people who seriously think so; yet even among his admirers, intelligence was never the chief characteristic they praised in him.

  39. @Beckow
    @Spisarevski


    ...signal that you are not a low IQ peasant by supporting these vaccines and eliminating nuance from your argument
     
    Another factor I have noticed is that many non-family people - either not having children or not particularly interested - are blase about sticking more chemicals in their bodies. It reflects their choice to be dead-enders, their biology changes. A lot of selfish elderly also fall into this category. Since these people are generally biologically useless (no matter what IQ they claim), it is best not to listen to them too much.

    If you eliminate nuance from a discussion about vaccines you might as well stick something in your arm every day. If vaccination is good and always outweighs any negative consequences, why not? There are clearly vaccines that are beneficial and well-tested, and there are some that are for most people redundant (incl. children), and some that might actually cause more harm than good. Corona vaccines are by definition an unknown: not fully tested and not even sure what they are supposed to prevent. They could range from a placebo to a miracle, or something that gives you a neurological storm 10 years from now. They don't know, and don't even claim to know. Sputnik is more traditional, but does it really do that much?

    It is disappointing to see our host take an unthinking position and push it mindlessly, he might not be the family-type, so what the hell, what does he have to lose?

    Replies: @Levtraro

    Agree. In addition, our host has posted info connecting IQ with vaccination as a general medical technique, not for any particular vaccine. The connection could be the opposite for COVID vaccines. I can parse right now three considerations for why would more intelligent humans, especially in the West, have more doubts about anti-COVID vaccines. (1) Anti-COVID vaccines have been rushed into use so intelligent humans may have more negative views as they assess greater risks coming from emergency approval. (2) In the West humans are being called to take vaccines some of which, perhaps the most widely used, were created with a new biotechnology (mRNA). Why would authorities give emergency approval to a new vaccine biotechnique when there are well-tested biotechniques to create vaccines? In an emergency logic dictates don’t take new risks, stick to what works. Yet they are pushing the mRNA vaccines. So once again intelligent humans will have more doubts as they are more able to evaluate the risks inherent to new biotechnologies, thinking that the push to use mRNA vaccines has too much to do with business. BioNTech of the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine is a well-funded German start-up that has not yet achieved approval of any of its drugs against cancer but that achieved the big breakthrough with their COVID mRNA vaccine, for which Pfizer only provided the logistics to conduct phase 3 trials and then for mass production. (3) Why has the EU not given emergency approval to Sputnik V? This human adenovirus-vector vaccine is built with a biotechnology that has been used since the 70s, is being used to develop other vaccines and to attack tumorous cells, and has already produced one vaccine approved for general use. Also, the EU has approved other adenovirus-vector vaccines. Thus it seems the EU does not approve of Sputnik V out of political considerations and/or to support the rising star of BioNTech.

    So, given (1), (2) and (3) above, more intelligent, more aware humans, especially in the EU, are bound to have more doubts about getting vaccinated. They will wait to see how the whole thing pans out. That should not be a problem though in the larger scheme of things since the vast majority of humans will take the vaccines when they are told to, those with less abilities to evaluate the risks or with less liberty to do as they please, so eventually the whole thing will fizzle out because of herd inmunity.

  40. @Znzn
    So maybe other countries should have the required political infrastructure to bring in the army and paramilitary forces to enforce pandemic measures as well, if that is what it will really take? Maybe the USSR and the Russian Federation should learn from China as to how to properly implement an efficient authoritarian system, because clearly the Chinese are able to shut up the conspiracy mongers to the nations benefit.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala

    Maybe you should just kill or sterilize yourself to your nations benefit. If you still defend destroying economic progress and normal life because of a flu epidemic your genes are clearly worthless and your nation would be better off without them in the pool.

    Maybe in a properly authoritarian state we could round up and shoot panic mongers like Znzn. Honestly at this point I think it would be completely justified. The misery and suffering that your types have caused over the past year is far worse than anything the corona virus could ever do and you deserve severe punishment.

    China, for what it’s worth, had an excuse to over-react as the disease was new and found there first. They indeed started canceling their measures fast while the West is still stuck with this completely insanity, at least on government level (nobody seems to actually care what the government is saying at this point, people are out partying and ignoring all guidelines).

  41. @Znzn
    @Brás Cubas

    Brazil is not a poor country, and managed to vaccinate 100 million in the 2009 swine flu pandemic in much less time, also Brazil has the most organized national health care system south of the Rio Grande.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

    Yes, you are right to a certain extent, but as I said it’s hard to entirely blame the present government for the current problems in vaccination. Brazil is not poor, as you said, but is on the fast route to becoming so, and there is a situation of Covid-19 vaccine scarcity which complicates matters. Pfizer’s terms were too harsh, it seems, and the initial offer was too meager, whereas the other vaccines were met with a certain mistrust (as a matter of fact, even Pfizer was, though about its safety, whereas in the case of the Chinese one it was its efficacy).

    As I said in the other comment, Bolsonaro is a mediocre man, so that possibly has something to do with our poor vaccination performance, but I wouldn’t infer that his critics would do a much better job in his place.

  42. @Vishnugupta
    Broadly there are two types of anti vax sentiments

    1.People conceptually opposed to vaccines because they think covid is just another flu/its all a conspiracy/it will render you infertile(#1 reason in Muslim countries)

    2.People who think due process of vaccine development was compromised and want to wait a few months to see how these vaccines effect people in real life before deciding whether to get vaccinated and which vaccine among the options available to take.

    The second type of anti vax sentiment is IMHO legitimate and cannot be equated with low IQ quite the converse.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Morton's toes, @melanf, @Bardon Kaldian, @mike99588

    2.People who think due process of vaccine development was compromised and want to wait a few months to see how these vaccines effect people in real life before deciding whether to get vaccinated and which vaccine among the options available to take.

    The second type of anti vax sentiment is IMHO legitimate and cannot be equated with low IQ quite the converse.

    I call this reasonable, but a bit cowardly behavior.

    Why not try something that will, at least superficially, alter your DNA (of course it cannot change it essentially)? Why not show some adventurous spirit?

    And why cling to your boring old body-self?

    Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead ….

  43. @Znzn
    @Beckow

    You believe dumb people can become a captain of airborne troops?

    Replies: @Beckow, @Philip Owen

    …dumb people can become a captain of airborne troops?

    I don’t know, possibly. I didn’t talk about dumb or smart, this is more in emotional sphere.

  44. There is a historical reason for Japan’s reluctance …

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/26/asia/japan-covid-vaccination-program-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

    Why Japan took so long to start Covid-19 vaccinations, even with the Olympics looming

    ……………………………………………………..

    Japan’s vaccine resistance dates back to the 1970s when two infants died within 24 hours after receiving the combined diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (whooping cough) vaccination. The vaccine was temporarily suspended but confidence had already been rattled. For several years, infant vaccination rates fell, leading to a rise in cases of whooping cough.

    In the late 1980s, there was another scare with the introduction of a Japanese-produced measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine. Early versions of the vaccine were linked to aseptic meningitis, or swelling of the membranes around the brain and spinal cord. The problem was traced back to the mumps component of the MMR vaccine, which led to court action and a hefty damages payout.

    The National Institute of Health Science discontinued the combined shot in 1993 and replaced it with individual vaccines.

    After the MMR scandal, Shibuya says the Japanese government became “risk aware” and its national vaccination program became voluntary. Dr. Yuho Horikoshi, an expert in infectious diseases, says the lawsuits led to a “vaccination gap,” where no vaccines were approved in Japan for about 15 years.

    More recently, in 2013, Japan added the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine to the national schedule to protect girls against the sexually transmitted virus, which is known to cause cervical cancer. However, videos of girls allegedly suffering adverse reactions started circulating on YouTube, leading the government to remove it from the national schedule.

    The Vaccine Adverse Reactions Review Committee investigated the incidents and found no evidence to suggest a causal relationship between the adverse events and the HPV vaccine. But the reports, and the withdrawal of the vaccine from the Japanese government program, caused a steep fall in the number of girls being vaccinated — from more than 70% in 2010 to now less than 1%.

    That low rate could result in almost 11,000 preventable deaths from cervical cancer in Japan over the next 50 years, according to a study in The Lancet.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Probably a pretty low rate of HPV-induced cancer for the Japanese, compared to the US which has to deal with blacks. Should you vaccinate several tens of thousands of kids to prevent the sexpox of one, as is likely, extreme deviant? I can see why the Japanese weren't excited about it.

    I think the analogy here is diamond engagement rings. They tried to market them to Japan and even up the number of months a man was supposed to save for one. It didn't work because the Japanese saw through it.

    Perhaps, they should use physiognomy to help determine who needs the HPV vaccine in Japan (black hafus). Or other shots.

  45. @Alexander Turok
    @RoatanBill


    I’m in the top 2% in IQ.
     
    I bet you watch Rick and Morty too.

    Replies: @AltSerrice

    To be fair, he must have a very high IQ to understand it.

  46. @The Big Red Scary
    An additional consideration: The expected value of vaccination against disease decreases with the level of development of a country. For many reasons, contracting measles (for example) is more dangerous for kids from poor, chaotic countries than from prosperous, orderly countries. So it's not just that people in developed countries haven't forgotten how bad disease can be, but also that disease really is not as threatening when you are well-fed and have basic health care. The expected value calculation still usually comes out in favor of vaccination, but honestly, for most diseases the risk of kids not being vaccinated is rather low. In living memory, for example, everyone in the US got measles as a kid, everyone just shrugged their shoulders.

    Replies: @songbird, @BlackFlag

    And if you live in a country were 99% of people get vaccinated for something like measles, you might as well free-ride and not get vaccinated since herd immunity will drastically reduce the probability of contracting the disease.

  47. @Bardon Kaldian
    There is a historical reason for Japan's reluctance ...

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/26/asia/japan-covid-vaccination-program-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

    Why Japan took so long to start Covid-19 vaccinations, even with the Olympics looming

    ..............................................................

    Japan's vaccine resistance dates back to the 1970s when two infants died within 24 hours after receiving the combined diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (whooping cough) vaccination. The vaccine was temporarily suspended but confidence had already been rattled. For several years, infant vaccination rates fell, leading to a rise in cases of whooping cough.

    In the late 1980s, there was another scare with the introduction of a Japanese-produced measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine. Early versions of the vaccine were linked to aseptic meningitis, or swelling of the membranes around the brain and spinal cord. The problem was traced back to the mumps component of the MMR vaccine, which led to court action and a hefty damages payout.

    The National Institute of Health Science discontinued the combined shot in 1993 and replaced it with individual vaccines.

    After the MMR scandal, Shibuya says the Japanese government became "risk aware" and its national vaccination program became voluntary. Dr. Yuho Horikoshi, an expert in infectious diseases, says the lawsuits led to a "vaccination gap," where no vaccines were approved in Japan for about 15 years.

    More recently, in 2013, Japan added the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine to the national schedule to protect girls against the sexually transmitted virus, which is known to cause cervical cancer. However, videos of girls allegedly suffering adverse reactions started circulating on YouTube, leading the government to remove it from the national schedule.

    The Vaccine Adverse Reactions Review Committee investigated the incidents and found no evidence to suggest a causal relationship between the adverse events and the HPV vaccine. But the reports, and the withdrawal of the vaccine from the Japanese government program, caused a steep fall in the number of girls being vaccinated -- from more than 70% in 2010 to now less than 1%.

    That low rate could result in almost 11,000 preventable deaths from cervical cancer in Japan over the next 50 years, according to a study in The Lancet.

    Replies: @songbird

    Probably a pretty low rate of HPV-induced cancer for the Japanese, compared to the US which has to deal with blacks. Should you vaccinate several tens of thousands of kids to prevent the sexpox of one, as is likely, extreme deviant? I can see why the Japanese weren’t excited about it.

    I think the analogy here is diamond engagement rings. They tried to market them to Japan and even up the number of months a man was supposed to save for one. It didn’t work because the Japanese saw through it.

    Perhaps, they should use physiognomy to help determine who needs the HPV vaccine in Japan (black hafus). Or other shots.

  48. Support for vaccination doesn’t signal intelligence. It signals conformity, the people who make pronouncements on FACTS and Third Worlders, the narrowing gap between the two respective mentalities.

  49. Anatoly, are you intelligent enough to make a distinction between Sputnik V or Sinovac and the various mRNA vaccines? One is relatively safe, the other is pure insanity.

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @George
    @Feuerbach

    One would think that in 'free market' US of A you would have a choice between mRNA and inactivated virus vaccines, but no. In the US you can't even pay your own money for inactivated virus SinoVac vaccine.

  50. @Feuerbach
    Anatoly, are you intelligent enough to make a distinction between Sputnik V or Sinovac and the various mRNA vaccines? One is relatively safe, the other is pure insanity.

    Replies: @George

    One would think that in ‘free market’ US of A you would have a choice between mRNA and inactivated virus vaccines, but no. In the US you can’t even pay your own money for inactivated virus SinoVac vaccine.

  51. @RoatanBill
    give the factually correct answer

    There are no statistics that haven't been cooked, so how is anyone to come to a rational logical conclusion on what's real? There can be no factually correct answer when there are no facts to consider.

    Given that all the 'vaccines' have been rushed to market and the manufacturers are shielded from all liability, I contend one has to be incredibly stupid to take the jab and I'm in the top 2% in IQ.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Icy Blast, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Dutch Boy

    Anatoly Karlin is destroying whatever credibility he had with this intentionally insulting blather. He sounds like the sort of drone who hangs on Brian Stelter’s every word – someone with a degree in social work from a government-supported American “university.”

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Icy Blast

    I haven't even heard of Brian Stelter. Is he some rightoid icon?

    Replies: @mike99588, @Icy Blast

  52. @Vishnugupta
    @melanf

    This is no longer the case at least in India due to new mutant variants of this virus.

    A lot of otherwise healthy people in their 20s / 30s have died or required oxygen or ICU treatment in the past month due to these variants.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @The Alarmist

    COVID “mutant” spikes tend to following vaccine rollout – see Israel.

  53. @Jaakko Raipala
    @Znzn

    Chinese authorities had serious clashes with protesters and they brought in heavily armed police and military to enforce their (mistaken) lockdowns. I don't know what planet you're living on if you think the Chinese don't have tons of conspiracy theories over what their secretive government is doing.

    The whole reason behind the collapse in trust and the rise of conspiracy cultures in the West is the rise in authoritarian governance through corporate control of the internet and mass media and now increasingly through the legal system with the rise of "hate speech", "Russian misinformation" and other labels for non-elite approved opinions. Few people have experience in virology and few people are smart enough to pick up the facts easily enough to become pseudo-experts in this one issue but human beings are pretty sensitive to cues over whether they're being manipulated or not.

    The reason we had high trust societies in the West for a while was because we actually did have relatively high free speech and relatively open debates over the direction of society. The elite was mostly content with people with the money or status having more ability to broadcast their views and the counter-culture to this has been mostly focused on "raising awareness" over whatever bothers groups that don't have elite representation.

    In contrast the USSR attempted to enforce total ideological conformity and the result was a very low trust society where everyone knew that the institutions, politicians and media are completely compromised. Now that the West is becoming the new USSR we're seeing the same happen to it. Attempting to "shut down conspiracy thinking" with the magic powers of "authoritarianism" is just attempting to douse a fire with gasoline and it will have the opposite effect.

    Of course, if we had had a good solid public debate over the issue right in the beginning, we would have concluded that the corona virus is not a real crisis and requires no drastic actions.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Most people debating the whole COVID thing are aware (consciously or not) that it is no longer about the epidemic in itself and the proper mitigation strategy.
    It is about using the COVID crisis to impose far-reaching societal change in the form of Great Reset agenda. The main reason anti-vaxx sentiment is very prominent nowadays is largely because of the gut reaction to new social institutions of control being rolled out from above.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    Rather than to strive for the reversion to a "normal" life with its late-modern social and cultural decadence (like what Florida and Texas are doing now), it might be a better strategy for the diehard antivaxxer to establish a "savage" lifestyle out of their exclusion from formal social institutions, with its full set of economic and social structures, so they can compete with the Huxleyan "New Normal" - that's the goal agorists have recognized a long time ago. The perquisite of this is individuals' awakened determination (覺悟) to cleanly detach from his/her past lives.

  54. In place of further replies to add fuel in nearly-pointless debates, here is the case study of the place I live in, which is incidentally globally #1 in IQ score – Hong Kong.

    We currently have vaccination open to everyone above 16/18 with Sinovac or BioNTech. There are basically 4 crowds in respect to their attitude to COVID vacciantion:

    1) Those vaccinated due to quasi-mandates imposed on employees (esp. hospitality)
    2) Those vaccinated to exit HK (mainly to relocate to hardcore WEF states, e.g. the US, Britain, Canada)
    3) Classical anti-vaxxers who is against Sinovac in particular: it is marginally effective, it has a track record of suspicious deaths in high risk groups days after vaccination, and (most importantly) it is Chinese. There are also anti-state types who make a point of buying beer from 7-11 and rave in front of empty vaccine ID-taking bars, or giving up on vacationing abroad. Both of them have fresh memories of being in the color revolution camp and partly import their ideologies from American and British rightoids.
    4) The rest are generally undecided and veering to anti-vaxx day by day because of HK entering a low trust society along with the rest of the American bloc.

    I’d have been solidly 3) if I hadn’t been totally indifferent to Sinovac – after all, if COVID ends up being like a flu after the initial wave, its vaccines should be like flu vaccines, half-effective inactivated talismans. I even considered getting the Sinovac jab for the papers but balked because of family pressure mainly of the soft 3) type – that will partly disqualify me from commenting on vaccine matters. My parents prefer me to have BioNTech when push comes to shove – they think it’s Western and free of Chinese influence.

  55. @Yellowface Anon
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Most people debating the whole COVID thing are aware (consciously or not) that it is no longer about the epidemic in itself and the proper mitigation strategy.
    It is about using the COVID crisis to impose far-reaching societal change in the form of Great Reset agenda. The main reason anti-vaxx sentiment is very prominent nowadays is largely because of the gut reaction to new social institutions of control being rolled out from above.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Rather than to strive for the reversion to a “normal” life with its late-modern social and cultural decadence (like what Florida and Texas are doing now), it might be a better strategy for the diehard antivaxxer to establish a “savage” lifestyle out of their exclusion from formal social institutions, with its full set of economic and social structures, so they can compete with the Huxleyan “New Normal” – that’s the goal agorists have recognized a long time ago. The perquisite of this is individuals’ awakened determination (覺悟) to cleanly detach from his/her past lives.

  56. @Spisarevski
    And you yourself signal that you are not a low IQ peasant by supporting these vaccines and eliminating nuance from your argument while ignoring it in the argument of the intelligent anti-vaxx people.

    One can appreciate vaccines in general for eliminating certain dangerous diseases and be sceptical about the Covid ones for a wide variety of reasons. Even before Covid, I was always dismissive of flu vaccines, as I've never got one and never get the flu, while a colleague of mine gets vaccinated every year and also has the flu every year. He is also fat while I'm in shape. At the same time I do support all the vaccines that are mandatory ever since communist times, because they are proven, they are very safe and they have saved us from a lot of misery.

    It's all about weighing risks against one another. Considering all the deaths and side effects which are clearly underreported and undercounted for political reasons, there must certainly be a point at which if a person is young and healthy enough, the vaccine may be a bigger risk than the disease. The trick is correctly estimating that point.

    Then the long term risk is another matter as it is completely unknown, the mRNA vaccine technology is completely new and all the vaccines in general have not been tested for 10 years as it's normally done.

    If you are old, then the calculation is completely different. I advised my own mother to take the Pfizer vaccine because even if there are long term risks, they will take a while to manifest and become a problem and the short term risk for someone above 50 and with history of respiratory diseases is a bigger issue. Thank God, there were not any side effects and everything went fine and now I no longer worry about her getting Covid, but I am still not willing to take the same vaccine myself and not because I care more about me than about her, but because the risks are quite different for someone who has not reproduced yet and who has supposedly more than half his life ahead of him, assuming average lifespan - and who should have pretty decent chances against Corona anyway.

    If Sputnik-V was available in Bulgaria I'd probably get it at some point, but with the choices being AstraZeneka, J&J and the mRNA ones, I feel like staying in shape and taking vitamin D and zinc should be enough and getting vaxxed is actually an unnecessary risk.

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @Beckow, @Sinotibetan

    I agree with you that the issue of Covid vaccine is not a straightforward pro-vaxx and anti-vaxx one. So much of the pandemic is mired in politics /geopolitics and conspiracy .
    I agree that high risk groups such as older age, those with co-morbids , healthcare frontliners etc should perhaps be vaccinated , considering the risk vs benefits. AZ and J and J shouldn’t be given to younger age groups – with the risk of vaccine induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia for ladies plus Gullain Barre syndrome. True , the long term side effects of mRNA vaccine is unknown.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Sinotibetan

    Which is why mandating vaccine passports for places young people often go to, without remedies that suit their risk profiles (not necessarily vaccines) or alternatives to prove their low risk to COVID, is discriminatory, immoral and barely focused on actual disease prevention. It shouldn't really be in place for most activities that doesn't involve extremely intense contact (think of activities that will transmit AIDS) - it's basically a ploy to create captive markets for vaccines and to facilitate setting up state control over movement and consumption.

    The other alternative is resignation and indefinite screen-sticking, which a lot do and have intention to go back to real interactions - I can personally attest. Or bring every friends to a big home party until the cops show up and fine everyone for breaking social gathering bans.

    Replies: @Sinotibetan

  57. @Sinotibetan
    @Spisarevski

    I agree with you that the issue of Covid vaccine is not a straightforward pro-vaxx and anti-vaxx one. So much of the pandemic is mired in politics /geopolitics and conspiracy .
    I agree that high risk groups such as older age, those with co-morbids , healthcare frontliners etc should perhaps be vaccinated , considering the risk vs benefits. AZ and J and J shouldn't be given to younger age groups - with the risk of vaccine induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia for ladies plus Gullain Barre syndrome. True , the long term side effects of mRNA vaccine is unknown.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Which is why mandating vaccine passports for places young people often go to, without remedies that suit their risk profiles (not necessarily vaccines) or alternatives to prove their low risk to COVID, is discriminatory, immoral and barely focused on actual disease prevention. It shouldn’t really be in place for most activities that doesn’t involve extremely intense contact (think of activities that will transmit AIDS) – it’s basically a ploy to create captive markets for vaccines and to facilitate setting up state control over movement and consumption.

    The other alternative is resignation and indefinite screen-sticking, which a lot do and have intention to go back to real interactions – I can personally attest. Or bring every friends to a big home party until the cops show up and fine everyone for breaking social gathering bans.

    • Replies: @Sinotibetan
    @Yellowface Anon

    I agree with your take on vaccine passports.
    To me this Covid pandemic is maybe more political than biological/medical. If we have a future pandemic in which the virus is as lethal as the original SARS virus or Nipah virus but with the infectivity and initial asymptomatic phase similar to the SARS CoV2 , and our politicians and business tycoons behave like they do, we will be very screwed indeed. That will indeed be the true plague. In my opinion ,the current virus causes a disease that's worse and slightly more lethal than influenza. It's not "nothing" like the way Covid deniers insist , but it's not doomsday apocalypse like liberal mainstream media CNN , BBC blablabla hysterically shriek. The deaths are often due to mismanagement by respective governments leading to high risk populations exposed to the virus.

  58. @Icy Blast
    @RoatanBill

    Anatoly Karlin is destroying whatever credibility he had with this intentionally insulting blather. He sounds like the sort of drone who hangs on Brian Stelter's every word - someone with a degree in social work from a government-supported American "university."

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    I haven’t even heard of Brian Stelter. Is he some rightoid icon?

    • Troll: Greta Handel
    • Replies: @mike99588
    @Anatoly Karlin

    He's just another CNN chimp.
    You could have googled him in 1-2 seconds to avoid embarrassing yourself.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    , @Icy Blast
    @Anatoly Karlin

    He's that guy you dated at Foothill.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

  59. A few things about Brazil and Bolsonaro:
    a) contrary to what one would expect, given his military rank as ex-captain, Bolsonaro has never had much sympathy amongst the military, particularly the top brass. In the late eighties-early nineties, he led a movement of junior officers protesting against low wages, something anathema to the very hierarchically conscious Brazilian military. He only escaped court martial and expulsion with dishonour for three reasons: 1) the movement was not directly against the hierarchical command structure, it just bypassed the latter; 2) a whole bunch of other officers would need to be punished and the government as a whole did not want a military crisis on their hands; and 3) Bolsonaro readily agreed to leave the military. Incidentally, there is no doubt that other junior officers who did not leave the military saw their careers suffer. The lack of sympathy remains even today, as the main lesson the Brazilian military learned from the military regime (1964-1985) is that it is better to be the power behind the throne.
    b) Whilst the boot-licking cannot be denied, there was a reason for it. There is no tradition of right-wing or conservative ideological thought within the Brazilian elites, except perhaps among the military, who never managed to really propagate it, despite their efforts during the military regime. This does not mean, of course, that there was no conservative thought as such, only that it was marginal and disarticulated. The advent of the internet enabled these disarticulated groups and individuals to network, but the one readily-available body of consistent socially conservative thought was American populist conservatism. The latter was particularly important as one of Bolsonaro’s main bases of support is the Brazilian evangelical pentecostal movement, an off-shoot from American pentecostalism (BTW, Brazil is nominally Catholic, but religious dynamism is found in pentecostalism, which grew from 2% to over 20% of the population from 1970 to 2010). This meant there were clear ideological affinities with Trump’s administration (and, please, I do not mean Trump himself is religious).
    In practice, of course, the boot-licking had virtually no practical return, since the US gives nothing back, unless it feels it is absolutely necessary. As Brazil was doing everything it wanted for free, it received nothing in return. Even the expected benefit that the US government would support the Bolsonaro government or at least not actively attempt to undermine it, was not entirely achieved, as the Trump administration’s lack of control over its own bureaucracy and over the mediascape meant there was considerable sabotage and bad press.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill, Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Menschmaschine
    @stradivarius

    It seems that Latin America is getting from the frying pan into the fire by converting from Marxist Catholic Liberation Theology to US-Zionist Evangelicalism.

    How about a retvrn to tradition? Resurrect the Aztec human sacrificial cult or something in that style

  60. @stradivarius
    A few things about Brazil and Bolsonaro:
    a) contrary to what one would expect, given his military rank as ex-captain, Bolsonaro has never had much sympathy amongst the military, particularly the top brass. In the late eighties-early nineties, he led a movement of junior officers protesting against low wages, something anathema to the very hierarchically conscious Brazilian military. He only escaped court martial and expulsion with dishonour for three reasons: 1) the movement was not directly against the hierarchical command structure, it just bypassed the latter; 2) a whole bunch of other officers would need to be punished and the government as a whole did not want a military crisis on their hands; and 3) Bolsonaro readily agreed to leave the military. Incidentally, there is no doubt that other junior officers who did not leave the military saw their careers suffer. The lack of sympathy remains even today, as the main lesson the Brazilian military learned from the military regime (1964-1985) is that it is better to be the power behind the throne.
    b) Whilst the boot-licking cannot be denied, there was a reason for it. There is no tradition of right-wing or conservative ideological thought within the Brazilian elites, except perhaps among the military, who never managed to really propagate it, despite their efforts during the military regime. This does not mean, of course, that there was no conservative thought as such, only that it was marginal and disarticulated. The advent of the internet enabled these disarticulated groups and individuals to network, but the one readily-available body of consistent socially conservative thought was American populist conservatism. The latter was particularly important as one of Bolsonaro's main bases of support is the Brazilian evangelical pentecostal movement, an off-shoot from American pentecostalism (BTW, Brazil is nominally Catholic, but religious dynamism is found in pentecostalism, which grew from 2% to over 20% of the population from 1970 to 2010). This meant there were clear ideological affinities with Trump's administration (and, please, I do not mean Trump himself is religious).
    In practice, of course, the boot-licking had virtually no practical return, since the US gives nothing back, unless it feels it is absolutely necessary. As Brazil was doing everything it wanted for free, it received nothing in return. Even the expected benefit that the US government would support the Bolsonaro government or at least not actively attempt to undermine it, was not entirely achieved, as the Trump administration's lack of control over its own bureaucracy and over the mediascape meant there was considerable sabotage and bad press.

    Replies: @Menschmaschine

    It seems that Latin America is getting from the frying pan into the fire by converting from Marxist Catholic Liberation Theology to US-Zionist Evangelicalism.

    How about a retvrn to tradition? Resurrect the Aztec human sacrificial cult or something in that style

  61. @Vishnugupta
    Broadly there are two types of anti vax sentiments

    1.People conceptually opposed to vaccines because they think covid is just another flu/its all a conspiracy/it will render you infertile(#1 reason in Muslim countries)

    2.People who think due process of vaccine development was compromised and want to wait a few months to see how these vaccines effect people in real life before deciding whether to get vaccinated and which vaccine among the options available to take.

    The second type of anti vax sentiment is IMHO legitimate and cannot be equated with low IQ quite the converse.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Morton's toes, @melanf, @Bardon Kaldian, @mike99588

    After reviewing material on several therapeutics we have on hand, including from cancer treatments, the data we see indicate that therapeutics are far, far better, at least for us, than even the most optimistic vaccine claims.

    Our family personally knows people who died of covid and people who died of the vaccine. I track many options. Our eyes are wide open.

    What do we have on hand?
    15 mg ivermectin pills, 10,000 iu and 50,000 iu vitamin D3 caps, EGCG, quercetin, curcumin, GSE, 1000 mg ascorbic acid TR and instant release, 30 mg zinc, 200 mg magnesium citrate and others, TR 3 & 10 mg melatonin, 250 gram IV vitamin C bottles, 100 mg thiamine, potassium TR, selenium, coQ10, 325 mg aspirin, fish oil, 500 mg niacin, 15 mg vitamin K2, molecular iodine, several anti-fibrinolytic enzymes, amongst many things. Even a gallon of 95% EtOH and 30% H2O2.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @mike99588

    Yes. The problem is, you can't get vaccine passports by getting COVID and treating it with any of them. They're saying natural immunity will wane, so you still need the jab. (see how quickly the issue leaves pure medicine and becomes issues in social institutions and political control?)

    Replies: @mike99588

    , @Charlie
    @mike99588

    Add a pulse-oximeter and up your dose of IVM if SpO2 starts dropping. Recommended by the FLCCC. Also, look for Dr. Jackie Stone describing doses up to 100 mg with only minor side effects and phenomenal results.

    Medical update online - In Discussion With Dr. Jackie Stone

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=DtoOw9VqjI0&t=530

  62. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Icy Blast

    I haven't even heard of Brian Stelter. Is he some rightoid icon?

    Replies: @mike99588, @Icy Blast

    He’s just another CNN chimp.
    You could have googled him in 1-2 seconds to avoid embarrassing yourself.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @mike99588

    Why should I care about some amerimutt in your gay country?

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @mike99588

  63. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Icy Blast

    I haven't even heard of Brian Stelter. Is he some rightoid icon?

    Replies: @mike99588, @Icy Blast

    He’s that guy you dated at Foothill.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Icy Blast

    It's rightoids who masturbate to Hunter Biden's cock, which is fine, but please don't project.

  64. … having had vast mortality reductions through suppression of once endemic diseases within living memory….

    Most of which came from better diet and sanitation; don’t kid yourself about any vaccines. More than 90% of the reduction of Polio in the US came before the development and deployment of vaccines.

    That this is accurate is suggested by the fact that Western liberal normies go anti-vax when it comes to Sputnik V (as it signals Russophobia).

    Any one who can read the research and see the number of glaring holes in vaxx research learns to be sceptical. There are vaxxes that really are safe and effective and recommendable, but there are plenty that are not.

    And sure, there are plenty in the West who will be anti Russia or China … don’t worry, Pfizer and Moderna and Jannsen will cull them soon.

  65. @mike99588
    @Anatoly Karlin

    He's just another CNN chimp.
    You could have googled him in 1-2 seconds to avoid embarrassing yourself.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Why should I care about some amerimutt in your gay country?

    • Replies: @Greta Handel
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Thought that you were just trolling, but apparently not. So why, then, did you ask?

    Let’s all hope that the FDA has forgetfulness and adhominemitis on that list of potential mRNA side effects.

    , @mike99588
    @Anatoly Karlin

    You're right, no one should care about that probably gay CNN amerimutt in a distressed country.

    Just the normal flow of trying to have a civil and intelligent conversation on a forum with a substantial american reference .

  66. @Icy Blast
    @Anatoly Karlin

    He's that guy you dated at Foothill.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    It’s rightoids who masturbate to Hunter Biden’s cock, which is fine, but please don’t project.

  67. @Sparkylyle92
    This post is an example of the silly propaganda technique "See, all the smart people take the vax." But it fails. As far as risk, he speaks as though it is factually measured. But the experiment to measure the risk is being conducted now, on all those who volunteer as guinea pigs. Stage 3 trials take years, that's what's happening now. The risk can only be measured subjectively at this point. How much do you trust the health authorities? These are the health authorities who do nothing about the epidemic of auto-immune diseases, the epidemic of diabetes, the epidemic of heart disease and other diseases of civilization, etc. Well, not exactly nothing. They exacerbate chronic conditions and promote expensive managements, not prevention.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    They exacerbate chronic conditions and promote expensive managements, not prevention.

    The Western establishment’s complete lack of any discussion of prevention and building a healthy, robust immune system is an enormous red flag.

    If this mess were really about concern for public health Western authorities would push preventive measures and healthy living as relentlessly as the injections.

    Instead, we have clowns like DeBlasio trying to incentivize the injections with the offer of free Shake Shack poison food.

  68. Karl Denninger has the scoop on the relative risks of covid-19 vs the vaccines:

    https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=242459

  69. @Anatoly Karlin
    @mike99588

    Why should I care about some amerimutt in your gay country?

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @mike99588

    Thought that you were just trolling, but apparently not. So why, then, did you ask?

    Let’s all hope that the FDA has forgetfulness and adhominemitis on that list of potential mRNA side effects.

  70. @Anatoly Karlin
    @mike99588

    Why should I care about some amerimutt in your gay country?

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @mike99588

    You’re right, no one should care about that probably gay CNN amerimutt in a distressed country.

    Just the normal flow of trying to have a civil and intelligent conversation on a forum with a substantial american reference .

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  71. @RoatanBill
    give the factually correct answer

    There are no statistics that haven't been cooked, so how is anyone to come to a rational logical conclusion on what's real? There can be no factually correct answer when there are no facts to consider.

    Given that all the 'vaccines' have been rushed to market and the manufacturers are shielded from all liability, I contend one has to be incredibly stupid to take the jab and I'm in the top 2% in IQ.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Icy Blast, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Dutch Boy

    There are no statistics that haven’t been cooked, so how is anyone to come to a rational logical conclusion on what’s real?

    Here’s one simple example.

    Governor Cuomo is all over the media claiming 1 million+ downloads for the NY State Excelsior Pass app.

    If you go to the Google Play store and look at the app page, only 100k+ downloads are reported.

    If they can’t get this basic download count straight, why should we trust any of the other data they report?

  72. Just the normal flow of trying to have a civil and intelligent conversation on a forum with a substantial american reference .

    Referring to someone on Chicken Noodle News as a ‘substantial american reference’ is like referring to Peter III’s bottom wiper as a ‘substantial Russian reference.’

    Or did you mean AK?

    • Replies: @mike99588
    @The Alarmist

    I meant many/most forum members substantially refer to america in their discussion and thinking, where as Karlin's is Russian.

    I was trying to avoid "all us americans here" discussing things, when many forum members' resident/citizenship status is not US only, may be past tense, or merely Western.

    As for CNN's paid troll, I said "probably gay...chimp".

  73. @Vishnugupta
    @melanf

    This is no longer the case at least in India due to new mutant variants of this virus.

    A lot of otherwise healthy people in their 20s / 30s have died or required oxygen or ICU treatment in the past month due to these variants.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @The Alarmist

    Funny how these variants pop up in most places shortly after they begin mass vaccination. Interesting how many of the new cases, and more than a few hospitalisations, were people recently vaccinated. By vaccinating folks with the virus, they are creating walking virus-variant factories.

    Vaccinating people in the middle of a pandemic is the height of medical malpractise.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    @The Alarmist

    Correlation is not causation.
    In any case vaccination had not begun in India in October 2020 when the double mutant variant was first detected.

    At the beginning of the second wave driven largely by this variant roughly 10%(All above 45,around 80%+ over 60) of the population had received at least one jab(92% Oxford/8% indigenous Covaxin whole viron vaccine).

    Anecdotally (sample size 1000 mostly parents of employees covered by company medical insurance compiled by HR of the company I work in) people who were given one dose of the oxford vaccine did not require any hospitalization or serious medical attention even if they contracted covid vs 30% of people who were unvaccinated required Oxygen if not ICU treatment after contracting covid.

    So yeah though this might be boring for people who like to overthink everything..vaccines work and in a country with abysmal lack of icu beds in quality hospitals(regardless of the money they are willing to pay) getting vaccinated is often the difference between life and death.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  74. @Anatoly Karlin
    Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

    Replies: @Archimedes

    One interesting thing to note is that China seems more interested in using “Inactivated Virus” vaccines than mRNA or AdenoVirus vectors. To my knowledge, China has not approved Sputnik V for use. Is this China just being slow to approve, or does it show a more vaccine skeptical government? It’s an interesting topic that doesn’t get discussed much. They do have 1 adenovirus vaccine approved and also a adjuvanted protein subunit based vaccine approved. Do any commenters have a take on this?

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Archimedes

    I think in itself, the safety of various vaccine platforms should be compared (but most antivaxx reject this out of hand and treats everything the same as those mRNA therapy). They can be as inane as flu vaccines to outright causing massive depopulation from the side-effects alone. But we shouldn't lose sight of level of state coercion in delivering COVID vaccines.

    Replies: @Archimedes

  75. @Yellowface Anon
    @Sinotibetan

    Which is why mandating vaccine passports for places young people often go to, without remedies that suit their risk profiles (not necessarily vaccines) or alternatives to prove their low risk to COVID, is discriminatory, immoral and barely focused on actual disease prevention. It shouldn't really be in place for most activities that doesn't involve extremely intense contact (think of activities that will transmit AIDS) - it's basically a ploy to create captive markets for vaccines and to facilitate setting up state control over movement and consumption.

    The other alternative is resignation and indefinite screen-sticking, which a lot do and have intention to go back to real interactions - I can personally attest. Or bring every friends to a big home party until the cops show up and fine everyone for breaking social gathering bans.

    Replies: @Sinotibetan

    I agree with your take on vaccine passports.
    To me this Covid pandemic is maybe more political than biological/medical. If we have a future pandemic in which the virus is as lethal as the original SARS virus or Nipah virus but with the infectivity and initial asymptomatic phase similar to the SARS CoV2 , and our politicians and business tycoons behave like they do, we will be very screwed indeed. That will indeed be the true plague. In my opinion ,the current virus causes a disease that’s worse and slightly more lethal than influenza. It’s not “nothing” like the way Covid deniers insist , but it’s not doomsday apocalypse like liberal mainstream media CNN , BBC blablabla hysterically shriek. The deaths are often due to mismanagement by respective governments leading to high risk populations exposed to the virus.

  76. @The Alarmist
    @Vishnugupta

    Funny how these variants pop up in most places shortly after they begin mass vaccination. Interesting how many of the new cases, and more than a few hospitalisations, were people recently vaccinated. By vaccinating folks with the virus, they are creating walking virus-variant factories.

    Vaccinating people in the middle of a pandemic is the height of medical malpractise.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

    Correlation is not causation.
    In any case vaccination had not begun in India in October 2020 when the double mutant variant was first detected.

    At the beginning of the second wave driven largely by this variant roughly 10%(All above 45,around 80%+ over 60) of the population had received at least one jab(92% Oxford/8% indigenous Covaxin whole viron vaccine).

    Anecdotally (sample size 1000 mostly parents of employees covered by company medical insurance compiled by HR of the company I work in) people who were given one dose of the oxford vaccine did not require any hospitalization or serious medical attention even if they contracted covid vs 30% of people who were unvaccinated required Oxygen if not ICU treatment after contracting covid.

    So yeah though this might be boring for people who like to overthink everything..vaccines work and in a country with abysmal lack of icu beds in quality hospitals(regardless of the money they are willing to pay) getting vaccinated is often the difference between life and death.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Vishnugupta

    The more correct version of the statement is, Correlation does not imply causation. This does not mean it can be ruled out as an indicator of a relationship.

    But more to my point, the “Indian variant” may have existed before. the vaxxes were started, but it came roaring back once they were and therapeutics used to that point had been dropped in favour of using the vaxxes?


    https://youtu.be/xSrc_s2Gqfw?t=1m40s

    Watch for India at circa 1m 48s.

    Didn’t a few states switch back to therapeutics like Ivermectin after the most recent spike?

  77. @Vishnugupta
    @The Alarmist

    Correlation is not causation.
    In any case vaccination had not begun in India in October 2020 when the double mutant variant was first detected.

    At the beginning of the second wave driven largely by this variant roughly 10%(All above 45,around 80%+ over 60) of the population had received at least one jab(92% Oxford/8% indigenous Covaxin whole viron vaccine).

    Anecdotally (sample size 1000 mostly parents of employees covered by company medical insurance compiled by HR of the company I work in) people who were given one dose of the oxford vaccine did not require any hospitalization or serious medical attention even if they contracted covid vs 30% of people who were unvaccinated required Oxygen if not ICU treatment after contracting covid.

    So yeah though this might be boring for people who like to overthink everything..vaccines work and in a country with abysmal lack of icu beds in quality hospitals(regardless of the money they are willing to pay) getting vaccinated is often the difference between life and death.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    The more correct version of the statement is, Correlation does not imply causation. This does not mean it can be ruled out as an indicator of a relationship.

    But more to my point, the “Indian variant” may have existed before. the vaxxes were started, but it came roaring back once they were and therapeutics used to that point had been dropped in favour of using the vaxxes?

    Watch for India at circa 1m 48s.

    Didn’t a few states switch back to therapeutics like Ivermectin after the most recent spike?

  78. @The Alarmist

    Just the normal flow of trying to have a civil and intelligent conversation on a forum with a substantial american reference .
     
    Referring to someone on Chicken Noodle News as a ‘substantial american reference’ is like referring to Peter III’s bottom wiper as a ‘substantial Russian reference.’

    Or did you mean AK?

    Replies: @mike99588

    I meant many/most forum members substantially refer to america in their discussion and thinking, where as Karlin’s is Russian.

    I was trying to avoid “all us americans here” discussing things, when many forum members’ resident/citizenship status is not US only, may be past tense, or merely Western.

    As for CNN’s paid troll, I said “probably gay…chimp”.

  79. @RoatanBill
    give the factually correct answer

    There are no statistics that haven't been cooked, so how is anyone to come to a rational logical conclusion on what's real? There can be no factually correct answer when there are no facts to consider.

    Given that all the 'vaccines' have been rushed to market and the manufacturers are shielded from all liability, I contend one has to be incredibly stupid to take the jab and I'm in the top 2% in IQ.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Icy Blast, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Dutch Boy

    Not to mention that the vaccine manufacturers are criminal organizations.

  80. @Archimedes
    @Anatoly Karlin

    One interesting thing to note is that China seems more interested in using "Inactivated Virus" vaccines than mRNA or AdenoVirus vectors. To my knowledge, China has not approved Sputnik V for use. Is this China just being slow to approve, or does it show a more vaccine skeptical government? It's an interesting topic that doesn't get discussed much. They do have 1 adenovirus vaccine approved and also a adjuvanted protein subunit based vaccine approved. Do any commenters have a take on this?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    I think in itself, the safety of various vaccine platforms should be compared (but most antivaxx reject this out of hand and treats everything the same as those mRNA therapy). They can be as inane as flu vaccines to outright causing massive depopulation from the side-effects alone. But we shouldn’t lose sight of level of state coercion in delivering COVID vaccines.

    • Replies: @Archimedes
    @Yellowface Anon

    Thanks for the reply. I find the natural immunity point insane. If we fought it off there should be no requirement for vaccine. They say natural immunity wanes, but honestly I highly doubt it. Few to no reports of re-infection and alot of those "claims" have been long haulers who had symptoms re-emerge. So no evidence that immunity wanes.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  81. @mike99588
    @Vishnugupta

    After reviewing material on several therapeutics we have on hand, including from cancer treatments, the data we see indicate that therapeutics are far, far better, at least for us, than even the most optimistic vaccine claims.

    Our family personally knows people who died of covid and people who died of the vaccine. I track many options. Our eyes are wide open.

    What do we have on hand?
    15 mg ivermectin pills, 10,000 iu and 50,000 iu vitamin D3 caps, EGCG, quercetin, curcumin, GSE, 1000 mg ascorbic acid TR and instant release, 30 mg zinc, 200 mg magnesium citrate and others, TR 3 & 10 mg melatonin, 250 gram IV vitamin C bottles, 100 mg thiamine, potassium TR, selenium, coQ10, 325 mg aspirin, fish oil, 500 mg niacin, 15 mg vitamin K2, molecular iodine, several anti-fibrinolytic enzymes, amongst many things. Even a gallon of 95% EtOH and 30% H2O2.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Charlie

    Yes. The problem is, you can’t get vaccine passports by getting COVID and treating it with any of them. They’re saying natural immunity will wane, so you still need the jab. (see how quickly the issue leaves pure medicine and becomes issues in social institutions and political control?)

    • Replies: @mike99588
    @Yellowface Anon

    Covid resistance is greater with higher blood levels of ivermectin, vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc+natural ionophore than spike protein antibodies from the jab. Presumably side effects and immune system distortions create other immune gaps.

    Ivermectin is outright superior at stopping infection on the trials at high *absorbed* dose eg. above 200 mcg/kg -->300 mcg/kg, and high frequency (e.g. 7 days vs 3-4 weeks). Vitamin C, vitamin D, zinc+natural ionophore shift various odds favorably.

    Modern instrumentation would make it easy to detect vitamin D, vitamin C, and ivermectin at different levels of accuracy, or simply do direct observation swallowing stuff. e.g. before boarding the intercontinental flights.

    Chemotherapeutic isolation vs physical isolation has long been recognized for persistent disease like TB.

    Replies: @utu

  82. Whoever still debating COVID in itself is stuck in 2020. 2020 is the year of medical authoritarianism and 2021 of Techno-Feudalism.

    It’s the time to look forward, and this means alternatives are needed, and that in the US means agorism, local production and agrarianism, all of them building independence from formal institutions control by globalist interests. You don’t need to wait to find many flocking over there.

  83. I grew up in the fifties with only one vaccine–polio. I never saw a doctor until my thirties. We all got measles, chickenpox, etc. not giving it a second thought. I don’t remember anyone dying. That must have been the golden age of medicine because doctors actually cared. Vaccines are a primitive form of medicine, invented before anyone understood the immune system. This is why people still believe in the more antibodies the merrier. More is not better when you go through a loved one’s immune system collapse (as I did)–antibody titers are through the roof, and this isn’t good. It’s like HIV only it isn’t always HIV. So… I don’t know where that puts those of us who are anti-vaxxers in terms of intelligence. Maybe it’s more like ‘once bitten, twice shy.’ I can’t imagine anything worse than the sheer exhaustion I felt after getting vaccines for a trip through South America, now more than a decade ago. I hate fatigue. Vaccines don’t prevent diseases long term, and they deplete the mitochondria long term. For example, I am still immune to measles…

  84. @Yellowface Anon
    @mike99588

    Yes. The problem is, you can't get vaccine passports by getting COVID and treating it with any of them. They're saying natural immunity will wane, so you still need the jab. (see how quickly the issue leaves pure medicine and becomes issues in social institutions and political control?)

    Replies: @mike99588

    Covid resistance is greater with higher blood levels of ivermectin, vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc+natural ionophore than spike protein antibodies from the jab. Presumably side effects and immune system distortions create other immune gaps.

    Ivermectin is outright superior at stopping infection on the trials at high *absorbed* dose eg. above 200 mcg/kg –>300 mcg/kg, and high frequency (e.g. 7 days vs 3-4 weeks). Vitamin C, vitamin D, zinc+natural ionophore shift various odds favorably.

    Modern instrumentation would make it easy to detect vitamin D, vitamin C, and ivermectin at different levels of accuracy, or simply do direct observation swallowing stuff. e.g. before boarding the intercontinental flights.

    Chemotherapeutic isolation vs physical isolation has long been recognized for persistent disease like TB.

    • Thanks: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @utu
    @mike99588


    Covid resistance is greater with higher blood levels of ivermectin.... than spike protein antibodies from the jab.
     
    Really?

    Outcomes of Ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.26.21250420v1

    After the selection, twelve studies (five retrospective cohort studies, six randomized clinical trials and one case series), were included. In total, 7412 participants were reported, the mean age was 47.5 (SD 9.5) years, and 4283 (58%) were male. Ivermectin was not associated with reduced mortality (logRR: 0.89, 95% CI 0.09 to 1.70, p = 0.04, I2= 84.7%), or reduced patient recovery (logRR 5.52, 95% CI -24.36 to 35.4, p = 0.51, I2 = 92.6%). All studies had a high risk of bias, and showed a very low certainty of the evidence.
     

    Misleading clinical evidence and systematic reviews on ivermectin for COVID-19
    https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/04/21/bmjebm-2021-111678
     

    Replies: @mike99588

  85. utu says:
    @mike99588
    @Yellowface Anon

    Covid resistance is greater with higher blood levels of ivermectin, vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc+natural ionophore than spike protein antibodies from the jab. Presumably side effects and immune system distortions create other immune gaps.

    Ivermectin is outright superior at stopping infection on the trials at high *absorbed* dose eg. above 200 mcg/kg -->300 mcg/kg, and high frequency (e.g. 7 days vs 3-4 weeks). Vitamin C, vitamin D, zinc+natural ionophore shift various odds favorably.

    Modern instrumentation would make it easy to detect vitamin D, vitamin C, and ivermectin at different levels of accuracy, or simply do direct observation swallowing stuff. e.g. before boarding the intercontinental flights.

    Chemotherapeutic isolation vs physical isolation has long been recognized for persistent disease like TB.

    Replies: @utu

    Covid resistance is greater with higher blood levels of ivermectin…. than spike protein antibodies from the jab.

    Really?

    Outcomes of Ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.26.21250420v1

    After the selection, twelve studies (five retrospective cohort studies, six randomized clinical trials and one case series), were included. In total, 7412 participants were reported, the mean age was 47.5 (SD 9.5) years, and 4283 (58%) were male. Ivermectin was not associated with reduced mortality (logRR: 0.89, 95% CI 0.09 to 1.70, p = 0.04, I2= 84.7%), or reduced patient recovery (logRR 5.52, 95% CI -24.36 to 35.4, p = 0.51, I2 = 92.6%). All studies had a high risk of bias, and showed a very low certainty of the evidence.

    Misleading clinical evidence and systematic reviews on ivermectin for COVID-19
    https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/04/21/bmjebm-2021-111678

    • Replies: @mike99588
    @utu

    Drink deep, enjoy your remdesivir, O2 and vent if you've got a lot of co-morbidities. I'm in a hot area overseas where there has been a lot of treatment suppression (IVM, HCQ, etc). BMJ, Lancet etc are corrupt rags as shown in this crisis, and long before.
    There are reasons why a lot of people die in hospitals after various "Std" medical advice.
    You might peruse ivmmeta.com for a more direct view of IVM papers and data.

    Rather than primitive ground up meta model used in EBM, I follow more of a predictive modelling with variables and Bayesian updating to check consistency, primarily concerned with prophylaxis and earliest treatment to reach near 100% noninfection for a given individual situation.
    I am more interested in prophylaxis data at 250-400 mcg/kg at 5-10 day intervals with an additional dose for a substantial exposure and more for malabsorption, active metabolites half life at 70 hr. Likewise, early treatment data in the 250-600 mcg IVM / kg range is more rational to me.

    Lesser treatments host serious statistical failures - why settle for 50% or 95% and be a dead statistic? All these 12 mg 1-2 dose trials, sad for the human mice.

  86. @Yellowface Anon
    @Archimedes

    I think in itself, the safety of various vaccine platforms should be compared (but most antivaxx reject this out of hand and treats everything the same as those mRNA therapy). They can be as inane as flu vaccines to outright causing massive depopulation from the side-effects alone. But we shouldn't lose sight of level of state coercion in delivering COVID vaccines.

    Replies: @Archimedes

    Thanks for the reply. I find the natural immunity point insane. If we fought it off there should be no requirement for vaccine. They say natural immunity wanes, but honestly I highly doubt it. Few to no reports of re-infection and alot of those “claims” have been long haulers who had symptoms re-emerge. So no evidence that immunity wanes.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Archimedes


    They say natural immunity wanes...
     
    The logical response to that is, “Based on what longitudinal empirical observation dataset?”

    The official COVID narrative is pre-Baconian scientism, based on Wild-Ass Guesses made by high-priest authorities.

  87. It’s all about trade-offs in the face of estimated risks.

    These days, I struggle to think of any vaccine one would want, except for Polio. Mumps? Please. I laugh at mumps. The flu? Again, big deal, I will take it easy for two days. Chicken Pox…maybe…in 100 years, after we know more about the vaccine.

    In 1960, do you get your kid vaccinated against Polio and Small Pox? Yeah, sure, those are serious diseases. In 2021 do you give your kid/yourself a brand new, rushed vaccine for the China Virus? No way. The China Virus only kills old, fat people. Maybe the virus has some long term harms that will only be understood in decades, but then the vaccines might as well. First, do no harm.

  88. Good times create weak people. My grandma used to tell me, that they have begging doctors to vaccinate their childrens. Giving all kinds of gifts etc. I guess, diseases looks worse when nearest medical help is 50 km away through deep forest.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  89. @Znzn
    @Beckow

    You believe dumb people can become a captain of airborne troops?

    Replies: @Beckow, @Philip Owen

    Absolutely. The requirement is obedience.

  90. Russia has a substantial anti vaxxer movement, most firmly based amongst neopagan. However, this is not why there is a low take up of vaccine in Russia.

    Russia has almost no manufacturing capacity for vaccines. The vaccines are grown in fermentatation vats called bioreactors. Russia has many lab scale bioreactors at a number of research institutes but only a handful of industrial ones (the Soviet Union once had many more – it was good at immunology). The current estimate is that Russia needs 52 new bioreactors installed in safe working environments to vaccinate the population by an end date of February 2023. This is why Sputnik V is being offered to foreigners like Astra Zeneca, itself a new returnee to vaccine production looking to expand its library. The local production base is weak. Exports are gestures. So antivax is not yet a huge concern for Russia.
    ________________________________

    My own experience of AZ is that both doses gave me a short dose of monkey flu three days after injection, the 2nd time less severe. Also, at about 2-3 weeks I lost my sparkle for 5 days, presumably my 2nd level immune system kicking in. I have to think that unpleasant as these experiences were, they are trivial compared to severe Covid. Where I live had the world’s highest infection rates around New Year. There were two deaths in my street; both older, less active types but who wants even a heavy cold?

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Philip Owen

    OK so you put some thought into that.

    At the end you seem to be in agreement with what the people on top the pyramid are telling all of us beneath them to do. All the while the intelligent amongst them may or not be doing so; my own opinion is most of them are not.

    I don't believe Gates has taken the jab. I don't think Biden or Putin have. Meanwhile CNN and google and whatnot have this "get vaccinated now" spiel on continuous loop 24 hours per day 7 days per week. This is very obviously very messed up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we37yX3zpKA


    You raise up your head and you ask, "Is this where it is?"
    And somebody points to you and says, "It's his"
    And you say, "What's mine?" and somebody else says, "Well, what is?"
    And you say, "Oh my God, am I here all alone?"
    But something is happening and you don't know what it is
    Do you, Mr. Jones?

     

  91. @Archimedes
    @Yellowface Anon

    Thanks for the reply. I find the natural immunity point insane. If we fought it off there should be no requirement for vaccine. They say natural immunity wanes, but honestly I highly doubt it. Few to no reports of re-infection and alot of those "claims" have been long haulers who had symptoms re-emerge. So no evidence that immunity wanes.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    They say natural immunity wanes…

    The logical response to that is, “Based on what longitudinal empirical observation dataset?”

    The official COVID narrative is pre-Baconian scientism, based on Wild-Ass Guesses made by high-priest authorities.

  92. @utu
    @mike99588


    Covid resistance is greater with higher blood levels of ivermectin.... than spike protein antibodies from the jab.
     
    Really?

    Outcomes of Ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.26.21250420v1

    After the selection, twelve studies (five retrospective cohort studies, six randomized clinical trials and one case series), were included. In total, 7412 participants were reported, the mean age was 47.5 (SD 9.5) years, and 4283 (58%) were male. Ivermectin was not associated with reduced mortality (logRR: 0.89, 95% CI 0.09 to 1.70, p = 0.04, I2= 84.7%), or reduced patient recovery (logRR 5.52, 95% CI -24.36 to 35.4, p = 0.51, I2 = 92.6%). All studies had a high risk of bias, and showed a very low certainty of the evidence.
     

    Misleading clinical evidence and systematic reviews on ivermectin for COVID-19
    https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/04/21/bmjebm-2021-111678
     

    Replies: @mike99588

    Drink deep, enjoy your remdesivir, O2 and vent if you’ve got a lot of co-morbidities. I’m in a hot area overseas where there has been a lot of treatment suppression (IVM, HCQ, etc). BMJ, Lancet etc are corrupt rags as shown in this crisis, and long before.
    There are reasons why a lot of people die in hospitals after various “Std” medical advice.
    You might peruse ivmmeta.com for a more direct view of IVM papers and data.

    Rather than primitive ground up meta model used in EBM, I follow more of a predictive modelling with variables and Bayesian updating to check consistency, primarily concerned with prophylaxis and earliest treatment to reach near 100% noninfection for a given individual situation.
    I am more interested in prophylaxis data at 250-400 mcg/kg at 5-10 day intervals with an additional dose for a substantial exposure and more for malabsorption, active metabolites half life at 70 hr. Likewise, early treatment data in the 250-600 mcg IVM / kg range is more rational to me.

    Lesser treatments host serious statistical failures – why settle for 50% or 95% and be a dead statistic? All these 12 mg 1-2 dose trials, sad for the human mice.

  93. @Philip Owen
    Russia has a substantial anti vaxxer movement, most firmly based amongst neopagan. However, this is not why there is a low take up of vaccine in Russia.

    Russia has almost no manufacturing capacity for vaccines. The vaccines are grown in fermentatation vats called bioreactors. Russia has many lab scale bioreactors at a number of research institutes but only a handful of industrial ones (the Soviet Union once had many more - it was good at immunology). The current estimate is that Russia needs 52 new bioreactors installed in safe working environments to vaccinate the population by an end date of February 2023. This is why Sputnik V is being offered to foreigners like Astra Zeneca, itself a new returnee to vaccine production looking to expand its library. The local production base is weak. Exports are gestures. So antivax is not yet a huge concern for Russia.
    ________________________________

    My own experience of AZ is that both doses gave me a short dose of monkey flu three days after injection, the 2nd time less severe. Also, at about 2-3 weeks I lost my sparkle for 5 days, presumably my 2nd level immune system kicking in. I have to think that unpleasant as these experiences were, they are trivial compared to severe Covid. Where I live had the world's highest infection rates around New Year. There were two deaths in my street; both older, less active types but who wants even a heavy cold?

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    OK so you put some thought into that.

    At the end you seem to be in agreement with what the people on top the pyramid are telling all of us beneath them to do. All the while the intelligent amongst them may or not be doing so; my own opinion is most of them are not.

    I don’t believe Gates has taken the jab. I don’t think Biden or Putin have. Meanwhile CNN and google and whatnot have this “get vaccinated now” spiel on continuous loop 24 hours per day 7 days per week. This is very obviously very messed up.

    You raise up your head and you ask, “Is this where it is?”
    And somebody points to you and says, “It’s his”
    And you say, “What’s mine?” and somebody else says, “Well, what is?”
    And you say, “Oh my God, am I here all alone?”
    But something is happening and you don’t know what it is
    Do you, Mr. Jones?

  94. @Boomthorkell
    I think part of it is a better awareness of the institutions involved. African countries can be easily bribed and tricked into being testing grounds for medical experimentation (and it turns out, a large portion of Americans). They still live under the idea of Western Medicine as Techno-Wizardry (with eye surgery, it sure is though.) Japan, on the other hand, is advanced enough to realize being healthy, well fed (in the nutritional, not strictly caloric sense), and with clean water is a strong enough baseline that any modification has to be utterly justified. Why take a VICP risk if one's chances of crippling infection are actually less than the chances of a crippling reaction to an injection? This is why they stopped giving MMR shots to children.

    The third worlders would be better served by clean water, better diets (enough food\better food) and vitamins instead of a Diphtheria treatment that kills 200. Not as much money to be made there, though, making a BioFlynn-Effect Africa, or Americans (that means you too, Mexico) less fat. Idiots must be punished though, this is the way of things.

    Replies: @blatnoi

    Of course, Japan did not stop giving MMR shots to children. You need it for kindergarten and school. The Japanese are not weird elves who are suddenly immune to highly infectious viruses with an R factor of 20. I think an epic, largest in the world outbreak of measles would be noticed.

  95. @mike99588
    @Vishnugupta

    After reviewing material on several therapeutics we have on hand, including from cancer treatments, the data we see indicate that therapeutics are far, far better, at least for us, than even the most optimistic vaccine claims.

    Our family personally knows people who died of covid and people who died of the vaccine. I track many options. Our eyes are wide open.

    What do we have on hand?
    15 mg ivermectin pills, 10,000 iu and 50,000 iu vitamin D3 caps, EGCG, quercetin, curcumin, GSE, 1000 mg ascorbic acid TR and instant release, 30 mg zinc, 200 mg magnesium citrate and others, TR 3 & 10 mg melatonin, 250 gram IV vitamin C bottles, 100 mg thiamine, potassium TR, selenium, coQ10, 325 mg aspirin, fish oil, 500 mg niacin, 15 mg vitamin K2, molecular iodine, several anti-fibrinolytic enzymes, amongst many things. Even a gallon of 95% EtOH and 30% H2O2.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Charlie

    Add a pulse-oximeter and up your dose of IVM if SpO2 starts dropping. Recommended by the FLCCC. Also, look for Dr. Jackie Stone describing doses up to 100 mg with only minor side effects and phenomenal results.

    Medical update online – In Discussion With Dr. Jackie Stone

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=DtoOw9VqjI0&t=530

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