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This has been another very bad month for the Alt Right (or what remains of it).

First, you had Katie McHugh prominently disavowing her former work at Breitbart (though it needs to be said that they did cuck and throw her overboard in their time – another splendid demonstration of right-wing solidarity), as well as former colleagues who had mentored and supported her (which is always inexcusable).

Quite a few people doxxed.

The rumor mill has it that the guy behind her “redemption” is PT Carlo, which was confirmed to me by one neoreactionary who used to work with him. I have been unable to contact PT Carlo myself. However, I do not think this would be an unsurprising development coming from a (self-described) Duginist who believes that the “crypto-eugenist IQ fetishists and “Socio-biologists”” are “enemies” who “must be destroyed.”

Second, you had Heartiste’s deplatforming from WordPress. I do not read him regularly because he writes too much (not a criticism) and his takes have become predictable. That said, I do consider Heartiste to be a brilliant writer – probably the single best polemicist in the Alt Right. Unfortunately, his technical skills appear to fall short of his rhetorical ones. The site is still down. I hope he made backups. For now, you can follow him on Gab here.

Third, just a couple of days ago Roosh V took the “godpill” and banned all discussions of game and premarital sex from his forum, in effect cucking his thousands of younger followers (very convenient to disavow game when you approach 40).

This invalidates the entire point of the forum. Christian dating sites are a dime a dozen. He’d be better off archiving the entire thing – or deleting it. Anyhow, with Heartiste’s banning, this pretty much destroys the manosphere. I would also add that even wrt Christian values, a consistent injunctive is to be humble about the faith. Whereas Roosh is making a spectacle out of it. Like that American missionary who went to the Andaman, doing more harm than good to others as well as himself.

Assuming this is not a supreme troll job – and I do not think it is, Roosh has been tending that way ever since the tragic early death of his sister from cancer – this is quite a sad end to a career that, whatever one might think of it, has at the very least been highly interesting and idiosyncratic.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Alt Right, Manosphere 
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  1. God, who cares about those losers, it’s completely irrelevant whether this Roosh degenerate becomes a monk or cuts off his dick (though it’s more likely he’ll start whoring again), most people have never heard of this subculture, and contrary to what Thorfinnsson may assert, its political importance is non-existent.

  2. @German_reader

    Sleeping with hundreds of women around the world is many things but “loser” doesn’t come to mind. Heartiste may be a loser, nobody really knows anything about him IRL.

    The manosphere is not hugely influential, but hardly non-existent. Chateau Heartiste got 50%-75% of the pageviews of The Unz Review (before it got nuked). If UR is at least minimally influential, then so is CH. I don’t recall if it was Thorfinnsson who said it, but apparently Cernovich used to be an active participant in the Roosh V Forum.

  3. @Anatoly Karlin

    Sleeping with hundreds of women around the world

    Did Roosh post video of himself while doing that or does one just have to take his word for it?
    And anyway, no matter he many women he banged, the political relevance of his site is still nil.

    If UR is at least minimally influential

    The only one on Unz review who may have some influence is Sailer, since some mainstream journos occasionally take note of him, or even retweet him. But that was already the case before he came to Unz review.
    Apart from that, Unz review is a completely unimportant fringe site, which isn’t surprising given the rather peculiar nature of most of the content.
    I don’t really know who Cernovich is…another internet nobody with a Twitter account I’d suppose.
    It baffles me why you devote so much attention to those irrelevant American losers (instead of at least trying to get some understanding about what radical right-wingers in Europe are doing…which might be a somewhat more relevant model for Russia as well after all).

  4. @German_reader

    Don’t bother, AK’s shilling for shitskin sex tourists is just part of his degenerate side and why I have never taken his complaints about fags and other things that are signs of social decay seriously.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Anonymous
  5. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Sleeping with hundreds of women around the world is many things but “loser” doesn’t come to mind.

    Are you sure that you’re not going to be able to personally pull this off if you’ll spend enough time in the Donbass, Anatoly? After all, I seem to recall AP saying that the Donbass is notable for its alleged sexual degeneracy, among other things.

    • Replies: @AP
  6. notanon says:

    hysterical global censorship is the opposite of collapse

  7. I liked Chateau Heartiste and hope that he’s back up soon. I thought that his game advice was useful to give beta males a fighting chance in a sexual market stacked increasingly against them. His “Diversity Overload Condition,” albeit borrowed from another commentator if I recall correctly, is a classic.

    • Replies: @ImmortalRationalist
  8. Thomm says:

    Anyhow, with Heartiste’s banning, this pretty much destroys the manosphere.

    I disagree.

    Rollo Tomassi, Dalrock, Blackdragon, A Voice for Men, Captain Capitalism, etc. are going strong. But they have more sustainable models and age-appropriate lives.

    Plus, the various Reddits around androsphere memes have more subscribers than ever.

    To top it off, Instapundit mentions androsphere memes almost daily now.

    Roosh made a number of poor choices, and after the death of his sister, changed his outlook on life considerably. Less than half of Heartiste’s output was androsphere-related.

    The Androsphere has not disappeared, rather, it has become embedded into the mainstream. More and more men are avoiding marriage, pumping and dumping women, learning Game, etc. More and more cuckservatives and manginas are being called out.

    The timeline was eeriely predicted with impressive accuracy in The Misandry Bubble.

    https://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @szopen
  9. @German_reader

    Apart from that, Unz review is a completely unimportant fringe site, which isn’t surprising given the rather peculiar nature of most of the content.

    So German Reader if its so fringe and unimportant, what the fuck are you doing here in the first place. As for Chateau Heartiste between the amount of redpills hes fed to thousands of men about the true nature of women in the West and his highly politically charged but bitingly witty commentary, he had an outsized influence.

    Quite frankly, since you are here taking cheap shots, I would further posit you are likely a hopeless beta and unfit to lick his bootheels given the sheer amount of men he has helped to navigate the modern minefield of Western wahmen.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    , @Anon
  10. Mr. XYZ says:
    @German_reader

    or cuts off his dick

    Roosh becomes Rooshie?

  11. Mr. XYZ says:
    @German_reader

    The only one on Unz review who may have some influence is Sailer, since some mainstream journos occasionally take note of him, or even retweet him. But that was already the case before he came to Unz review.

    You forgot to mention the Big Kahuna himself–Ron Unz. He occasionally writes articles for this site from time to time.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Anonymous
  12. neutral says:
    @German_reader

    At the same time the authorities (i.e. jews) are increasing censorship and pushing for ever more laws against white people, for such irrelevance why are they doing this then?

    • Replies: @Scalper
    , @JL
  13. all grifters, opportunists, and peripheral figures eliminated or neutralized.

    welcome to 2012, or thereabouts. when it was just the core, and important, people.

    almost every single person in the ‘alt right’ was a zero value added proposition personality.

    richard spencer did the most damage, by far.

    • Replies: @notanon
  14. Pharmakon says:
    @German_reader

    “It baffles me why you devote so much attention to those irrelevant American losers ..”

    Could it be due to the fact that Karlin is an American who fits the demographic profile of said subculture?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  15. Mr. Hack says:
    @Pharmakon

    He’s caught between two different worlds and will spend the rest of his life trying to figure out where he belongs: both; neither – somewhere else (later in life). 🙂

    • Replies: @Pharmakon
  16. Mr. Hack says:
    @German_reader

    Thorfinnsson has posted some sympathetic comments regarding Mr. Roosh’ s latest confession of Christian conversion. Although he (Roosh) seems to have been a baptised Christian, he seems to be undergoing a ‘born again’ experience mentioned in the gospels.* I would guess that a maturing Thorfinnsson, who from these pages has himself admitted to a sexualy profligate lifestyle, is himself undergoing a similar search for greater meaning in his life.

    *John 3.1 – 3.9

  17. Scalper says:
    @neutral

    Heartiste/Roissy/Weidmann deserves the “beta of the decade” award, first for hosting his site on wordpress, second for not having a backup site up und running within 24 hours and lastly – and this is clear to me at this stage – for not having made regular backups of his site. Pathetic.

    On the other hand, it is mildly funny to see the army of incels complaining on the internet about Rooshtard banning game posts.

    But it is funnier still the fact that retards like Roissy are constantly lobbying for men not to settle, marry and have kids and at the same time complaining about third world invasion and “elites” wanting to replace white Westerners.

    Meanwhile, less and less men want to settle and have kids partly because of this – manosphere reinforced – uptrend of male immaturity, pickiness and entitlement.

    If he only grasped the damage he has done to his own cause.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    , @Republic
  18. JL says:
    @neutral

    Because they are totalitarian in nature and will brook no dissent. It’s not that your opinion is wrong, it’s that you have no right to that opinion in the first place.

  19. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm

    80% of the people that post on game forums are beta Indians who can’t get laid save for arranged marriage anyway.

  20. Scalper says:

    How could the Alt Right collapse if it never had any political relevance?

    What is happenning is, predictably, the people politically relevant, having the upper hand and media support, are pissing all over the Alt Right and HBD faggies.

    First, and I never get tired of saying this, the Alt Right should have been the Alt Left, appropiated the Left’s idealism and defended what in reality are left wing agenda points.

    Pro working class/unions cuts on immigration, basic income for the poorest (less than 12k a year one person household) and free, high quality education for smart people whatever social class they belong to – real meritocracy at work.

    Stop the free market/neoliberal retards’ ongoing destruction of the West’s industrial web and its – mostly white but not only – working class.

    Define what a good, competent politician is, what formation it needs to become the best, and hand pick, groom and pay adequately suitable candidates wherever they are.

    This and curtail the influence of lobbies in Washington. Especially certain (((ethnic))) ones. All this are – or should be by definition – Left wing goals folks.

    Alt Right/HBD faggies are, as it stands, neoliberalism/Globalists’ useful idiots, as much or more than their nemesis, the pro-open borders antifa and SJWs retards.

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @notanon
  21. @Anatoly Karlin

    Roissy (heartiste) was doxxed ages ago and he had an upper middle class job and he actually looked a lot better than most “pick up artists” so it’s easy to believe that he had some success with the ladies. I assume he’s around 50 now so he’s not chasing young girls in nightclubs anymore, although of course some people would consider a 50 year old childless bachelor a loser even if he banged a lot of chicks in his youth.

    I suspect though that the guy writing the blog in later years was not the same as the original roissy.

    Roosh I suspect was always an internet con man who invested a lot in branding himself as a ladies man on the internet to sell books and now plans to move on to a different market as he got too old for that. And I’m not just saying that because Roosh banned me from his forum…

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  22. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    It baffles me why you devote so much attention to those irrelevant American losers…

    He has spent most of his life in Anglosphere-countries.

  23. iffen says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Anyone who begins most of his writing with, “I don’t know squat about shit” will not have a lot of influence. (The other lead-in is, “I really don’t have time to study and fully understand X, but here is my opinion.”

    • Replies: @David
  24. Pericles says:
    @German_reader

    How does the traffic of unimportant fringe site Unz.com compare to these vaunted and highly important mainstream journalist outlets?

    (Gold star if you filter out Chinese bot traffic enhancers.)

  25. @German_reader

    Did Roosh post video of himself while doing that or does one just have to take his word for it?

    I know a couple of people who “winged” with Roosh. They’d probably say something if he was a fraud. Heck, it would probably have come out years ago.

    It baffles me why you devote so much attention to those irrelevant American losers (instead of at least trying to get some understanding about what radical right-wingers in Europe are doing…which might be a somewhat more relevant model for Russia as well after all).

    At the end of the day, what happens in the US is far more important than in any individual country.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Yevardian
    , @Anon
  26. Bill P says:

    No collapse at all. The time has come to evangelize the alt-right. Darius has rightly recognized this, just as his Aryan forebears recognized Christ as the Saoshyant and changed the world forever.

  27. @Thulean Friend

    Because one half-Iranian/half-Armenian horndog banging thots around Europe and writing books about it is what is finally going to do in the white race.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  28. Pericles says:
    @Scalper

    First, and I never get tired of saying this, the Alt Right should have been the Alt Left, appropiated the Left’s idealism and defended what in reality are left wing agenda points.

    Go right ahead, o Masked Strategos. You can get to be an officially approved rainbow ‘faggie’ too.

    • Replies: @Scalper
  29. Mitleser says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    The American alt-right does not become more important than European radical right-wingers just because they are American. They would need to have at least the same success, but they don’t.
    Even you admit that they look worse than their European counterparts.

    • Replies: @notanon
  30. Yevardian says:
    @German_reader

    I personally can’t stand the rest of the PUA “movement” (Heartiste’s tedious ramblings included) or whatever you want to call it, but I quite like Roosh personally and wish the best for him. I just hope he’s gone to Armenian Apostolic or Orthodoxy and wasn’t inspired by some Protestant wackjob.

    I liked his stupid little short stories, something he could have developed:

    https://www.rooshv.com/the-rise-of-the-narcissicopter

    https://www.rooshv.com/the-perfect-time-to-live

    https://www.rooshv.com/big-berthas-satisfaction

    His travel writing was enjoyable as well, though you can see his literary vocabulary is pretty small, whether by purpose or his own limitation. I don’t think you should take this stuff so seriously.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  31. Yevardian says:
    @Apex Predator

    Go back to 4chan lol. I don’t think German_Reader has any illusions that what he posts here has any importance whatsoever, though you seem to disagree.

  32. Anon[799] • Disclaimer says:
    @Apex Predator

    To read your pearls of wisdom, and instantly feel superior.

  33. Yevardian says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Roosh I suspect was always an internet con man who invested a lot in branding himself as a ladies man on the internet to sell books and now plans to move on to a different market as he got too old for that. And I’m not just saying that because Roosh banned me from his forum…

    How did you not see that from a mile away? Shameless self-promotion and hustling books is a way of life for these people. Do you think our dear host is any different? Some people just have a natural gift for such things, it’s a lot easier than making an honest living, so I don’t blame them. And how did you get banned from Roosh’s forum of all places?

    I suspect though that the guy writing the blog in later years was not the same as the original roissy.

    How so? I noticed a steep decline in quality (not that his writing was ever great), especially after Trump started running for office and his blog started writing mostly about politics. After that I only checked in there to see how die-hard MAGA supporters were justifying the lastest 4D chessmove.

    Pretty sad though if it’s true that his site was the only way for more introverted western guys to get an idea of female nature.

  34. Yevardian says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    At the end of the day, what happens in the US is far more important than in any individual country.

    Pathetic.

  35. Men still seeking to just get laid like it’s 2005 are advised to follow Krauser.

    Roissy/Heartiste is an attorney to my knowledge. I read him voraciously when I was younger, but like some other men here I find his writing too tedious now.

    We’ll see what comes next for Roosh. If he sticks to his newfound faith then presumably his plans are courtship, marriage, and family. Perhaps he can write about how that is accomplished for redpilled men. The pozzed churches are not helpful at all in this department, and the only contrary Christian advice essentially comes from Dalrock.

    The manosphere has helped turn a non-trivial fraction of an entire generation of Western men to dissident politics, independence, self-reliance, and self-improvement. It has been much more important than some of you appear to realize.

    As for Katie McHugh…lol. Don’t trust women, news at 11.

    One of our real problems is physical organizing in meatspace (and yes, you Euros are better at it–kudos). They come down hard on us when we do so. Alcoholics Anonymous perhaps provides a good template for us.

    Here are the twelve traditions (distinct from the twelve steps) of Alcoholics Anonymous: https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-122_en.pdf

    1. Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.

    2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.

    3. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.

    4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.

    5. Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

    6. An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

    7. Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.

    8. Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.

    9. A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.

    10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

    11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.

    12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.

    Relevant, no?

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    , @notanon
  36. Yevardian says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Return of Kings Article Generator
    -10 Ways to Get Laid in Bloomfield, New Mexico
    -5 Feminists Who will Never be Hot
    -7 Reasons Why Feminists Hate Condoms
    -How I Learned Women Love being Fisted
    -4 Reasons Branson Beats Vegas
    -Six Ways to Rock a Motorcycle Like Steve McQueen
    -Why Not Smoking Cigarettes is Beta
    -Should American Women be Sent to Concentration Camps?
    -Why White Knights Deserve the Death Penalty
    -Why Vietnamese Women are Superior to Western Women
    -Why Cambodian Women are Superior to Western Women
    -Eight Game Lessons from Boko Haram

    Swiftly followed by:

    -30 Ways To Ban Someone From An Internet Forum
    -How I Banned Someone With A Broken Mouse
    -You Won’t Believe Why This Dickhead Got Banned
    -Top 10 Animated GIFs For After Laying Down The Banhammer

    LOL.

    It was a mistake of you to think Roosh had any sense of self-deprecation. Actually, for such a serious and humorless non-white guy to get laid at all is an achievement in itself really.

  37. You mispelled (((Brietbart)))).

  38. @Thorfinnsson

    Don’t trust women,

    Bigger lesson is don’t trust reactionaries or ‘tradcaths’

  39. @German_reader

    Roissy/Heartiste was politically more important than Roosh.

    Roosh however put more effort into community and meatspace, so the press considers him some kind of demon (or pathetic loser, depending on the angle the article is taking). Hence why he is banned from the UK.

    Roosh and Roissy/Heartiste are American, but the manosphere isn’t just American. There are lots of Europeans in the scene.

    Mike Cernovich went from being a guy with a blog to a fairly prominent alt lite journalist in a period of a few years.

    A lot of men in the dissident right started out in the manosphere, period. This will become less relevant as time goes on as the manosphere and dissident right-wing politics have more or less merged into a single entity for zoomers, so they wouldn’t debate about this like we do.

    The whole thing really grew out of a kind of Generation X jaded cynicism that doesn’t exist anymore.

  40. Scalper says:
    @Pericles

    Problem with HBD faggies such as yourself is: In their view, the world is a battle of HBD Alt Right “knights” (retards) such as themselves against Left wing “rainbow SJ warriors” (bunch of tools also)

    Hint: it is way more complex than that, dear HBD wanker.

    Again, are you against immigration because wetbacks work for less and “steal our jobs”? You sound like a Left wing “retard” to a real Republican. Do not forget that, muppet.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Pericles
  41. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Do you believe the Nigerians who send you email about their fortunes, are good investment advisers and investors?

    By the way, with the womanizing advisors, you can see they are usually not charming people in real life from the advice they give, their attitudes and their general life.

    However, it’s probably good that they do not seem to be charming, because intentionally charming people are associated with a lot of personality disorders, including some of the most unpleasant ones.

  42. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    In some ways, 19th century was the “golden age” of scams and frauds. By comparison to today, with electronic verifications, and even just communications, – it is easy to verify peoples’ credentials, and you cannot upgrade in the cruise ship by pretending to be “Baron von Winsor”.

    But in the 21st century, and with things like the internet, has introduced the possibility of creating total dream spaces, by filtering together groups of people who specifically want to believe the same things, and which can result in an inversion of reality.

    Then you just have to say to them what they want to hear – and there is no need for verification, as the audience are self-selected a people who already want to believe.

    Of course, for children and young people, this is even easier, as they often have difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality (I even remember watching horror films as a child, and I was not sure if this was fantasy, or a documentary).

  43. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    I don’t wish HIV upon AK, he shouldn’t play that game if he visits Donbas.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  44. Epigon says:

    1. No quantity beats quality when it comes to sex partners and sex itself
    2. No number of banged thots can compare with having a happy relationship, later on marriage and children with a quality woman

    There is a reason why all these subhumans focus on the exact opposites of the above – they are incapable of higher achievements and go for the low hanging fruit.

    As such, the “manosphere” they constitute is part of the problem. Not a significant one, but a problem nevertheless.

  45. Anonymous[272] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Problem is that white boys buy into it. You can’t have traditional women, and big healthy families without traditional men.

    • Replies: @notanon
  46. AP says:

    Third, just a couple of days ago Roosh V took the “godpill” and banned all discussions of game and premarital sex from his forum, in effect cucking his thousands of younger followers

    I confess I know very little about this guy. But this approach is the very opposite of “cucking.” It is precisely the marriage-free, materialistic/hedonistic lifestyle that promotes “cucking” on a large scale. If nearly everyone were married and focused on having a family rather than on sleeping with the latest and most intriguing human “toy,” “cucking” would be a rare and fringe phenomenon.

    And yes, someone who is in their forties or older, single, and sleeping with hundreds of women is a loser. They probably achieve that status by their late-thirties at the latest, actually. What may be “cool” at one age makes one a loser at another age. It is cool to have a huge TV to play videogames on it hours daily when one is 15. Someone who spends his life doing that at age 25 is a loser.

    • Agree: Epigon, Dreadilk, szopen
  47. Epigon says:

    Who is fit to be a “leader” of reactionaries and nationalists in the modern world? Who can lead by example, embody the virtues, ideas required and posses the necessary gravitas?

  48. Matt Forney says: • Website

    A big motivator behind the waning influence of the manosphere (and the changing interests of people like Roosh) is how technology has pretty much wiped out the old methods of picking up women.

    The manosphere came out of the seduction community/pick-up artistry, which peaked in the early 2000’s because that was a rare period where people were both sociable and sexually loose, hence meeting women in bars etc. was very possible if you knew how to hold a conversation and could dress yourself. You didn’t need to be super-handsome, super-charming etc. because women didn’t have inflated expectations due to social media.

    Additionally, while third-wave feminism (the dominant wave of feminism during this time) had some anti-male characteristics, it by and large encouraged women to sleep around and form relationships with men (think Sex and the City), so women were ideologically open to one-night stands and flings.

    The smartphone and social media ruined all this. There’s a reason why the percentage of people not having sex started to spike shortly after the iPhone was released. Women who aren’t grotesquely overweight can now preen on Instagram, collect compliments from orbiters around the world, and subsequently see their egos explode. They can’t settle down with any one man due to all the attention they get making them think they only deserve the best (a message that the media reinforces).

    Smartphones also made people far less sociable. Up until the late 2000’s, it was easy to strike up conversations with strangers in bars and on the streets. Now, if you stop to ask directions in an unfamiliar city, people will look at you weird. You’re gonna have a hard time picking up women if they aren’t willing to speak to a stranger for any reason.

    Moreover, modern feminism explicitly places a wedge between men and women: #MeToo, “rape culture,” and so on. Women have been trained to hate and fear men in a way that they simply weren’t before, so now you’re working against that as well.

    End result: seduction as we commonly imagine it is dead, at least in the West. It still exists to varying degrees in second- and third-world countries, but the smartphone is worldwide. As the rest of the world converges to American technology, it’s adopting American social dysfunction. This is visible even in “trad” Eastern Europe, with women in Poland and Hungary blimping up, getting tattoos, and fronting as supermodels when they’re 5s at best.

    As for Roosh, he’s been a friend of mine for a decade now. He’s legit, as is his recent conversion. I disagree with making these changes so suddenly (in his position I would have phased them in gradually), but I get why he’s doing it and he’s going to stay my friend. He’s a guy who has stuck by me through thick and thin while my white “comrades” in the alt-right stabbed me in the back repeatedly for petty and girly reasons.

    If a non-white man has more character and integrity than half the “white advocates” I’ve ever known, then maybe white genocide is a mercy killing.

  49. Dmitry says:
    @Yevardian

    Why would you waste time reading nonsense like that? I couldn’t imagine anyone would read this spam in their email, from affiliate marketers, cryptocurrency traders, 10 ways to date supermodels, pomegranate juice weight loss, etc .

    Do you think our dear host is any different?

    He only writes free content about history and politics, his original ideas and articles, which just reflects his personal unpopular views, and usually includes sources and graphs. And also a forum with usually interesting topics, free-speech, multinational people of different ideologies, and fair discussion.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  50. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    It is cool to have a huge TV to play videogames on it hours daily when one is 15. Someone who spends his life doing that at age 25 is a loser.

    Lol what?

    • Replies: @AP
  51. fnn says:

    While most of those operating within the Non-Christian, or Anti-Christian, tradition on the American Right have now reconciled themselves to the usefulness or necessity of “religion” they remain forever incapable of real faith itself.

    Carlo literally believes in the Resurrection. That kind of belief may become widespread after a Peak Oil collapse or a nuclear apocalypse. “The Trinity is our social program” is a very moving statement , but doesn’t seem relevant to the current age

  52. @Matt Forney

    [MORE]

    Always great to hear from the man who boasted about having pity sex with a mad coke-head old enough to be his mother

    https://archive.fo/2q628

    • LOL: German_reader
  53. Dreadilk says:

    I actually started to get more religious recently too and was happy to find rooshv did too. I never followed the manosphere or roosh in the first place.

    Having kids puts a lot of things in perspective. Even if you were there already it gets amplified.

    Deus Vult.

  54. @Yevardian

    It appears that Roosh (I have watched his videos, but haven’t read him) has been greatly influenced by Catholic scholar E Michael Jones, whom he recently had on his show. Jones is now being interviewed on various YouTube sites daily, it seems, and is very much in demand. Jones has also been a tremendous influence to Owen Benjamin, who has had him on his live stream twice that I’m aware of.

    Everyone hosting right of center sites these days wants Jones as a guest. I’m not a Catholic, nor a practicing Christian, but I’m heartened that so many young people today are listening to Jones’ traditional Catholic Christian message. And the fact that he is not afraid to call out the Jews for their eons of perfidy is all the better.

    • Replies: @Matra
    , @Thulean Friend
  55. szopen says:
    @Thomm

    More and more men are avoiding marriage, pumping and dumping women,

    IE more and more men is living the degenerate life which was envisaged for them by the commies, instead of trying to fight the degeneracy.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  56. szopen says:
    @AP

    Yes indeed. Helping people to get women they want in order to marry and have children, and then helping them to keep their families is a Good Thing, whether it’s by using “Game” or not. Being part of dick carousel is not a good thing. Roosh becoming christian is laudable.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  57. @AP

    I said he is cucking his young followers (e.g. incels in their twenties desperate to turn their lives around), people who didn’t – and according to Roosh shouldn’t – enjoy the libertine lifestyle that he had himself enjoyed and grifted from (is he donating his lifetime earnings from Bang! to Christian charities?) from his early twenties up until his late thirties. The point in life at which such a lifestyle becomes increasingly unsustainable, conveniently enough.

    This is also especially pertinent in light of the oft made point in the manosphere that there are almost zero truly tradcath girls anyway and that you need at least some knowledge of game to bed and keep them. The ostentatious nature of this “conversion” also looks pretty bad and even hypocritical from the side. By his own logic, as a deep sinner, he should be approaching this with the deepest humility, not blaring his new found life wisdom from the ramparts. If he becomes Brother Roosh at some secluded Siberian monastery, perhaps he would eventually be worth listening to on Christianity and moral living… In another decade.

    I respect someone like Forney standing by his friend, but I have no personal reasons not to say what I think.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Anonymous
  58. Dmitry says:
    @szopen

    Why is it laudable story?

    If you search his name on YouTube, you can see in the video that he is physically was born ugly (this is not his fault, but it could explain his life) and his personality seems to be stereotypically “low-confidence” (poor body language, etc).

    His face is a result of low testosterone, and he masks that with a beard.

    Perhaps he also had racism against him from white people when he was young, and this would contribute to the idea of being angry, controversial, and trying to make money from this on the internet by creating a community of other people with the same emotions.

    He is also famous it seems from being on this embarrassing talkshow (reality television – it’s not the same as real celebrity). He needs more our advice – i.e. attain a profession, get haircut before the interview, etc.

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @Philip Owen
  59. Yevardian says:
    @Dmitry

    To qualify, I never took these people at face value, it was more of a morbid curiosity in spectating than anything. Though as far as I know, unlike Forney or that idiot Neill Strauss, Roosh hasn’t been involved in anything truly cringeworthy.

    Actually, I only come here for the comment sections these days.

  60. AaronB says:

    One of the more amusing things about Roosh is that he would plainly admit to failing repeatedly with women, so that he was failing far more often than succeeding.

    Any normal person would conclude that game is useless, but to his followers it enhanced his credibility. So it was actually a stroke of marketing genius on his part.

    Basically Roosh played it like a numbers game, failed repeatedly, and had a small amount of statistical success – I think at his height, it was like a 5% success rate he reported.

    So basically what any average man with a lot of motivation and time on his hands can achieve with mass approaches.

    He would also periodically admit that he wasn’t getting attractive women, which again, far from reducing his credibility made him popular.

    He was not successful with women or life, but he was a fantastic marketer who made a career of being a loser with an intuitive grasp of how to appeal to losers. (And his hook clearly caught Karlin).

    His turn to religion is what gives his story arc any interest at all, because it follows a classic pattern described in the religious literature of all religiobs – intense efforts to save oneself through ones own power culminating in realizing ones own existential helplessness and need of a higher power.

    This, I believe, is the story arc of the modern world – a 500 year attempt by humanity to save itself through its own power, culminating in finally acknowledging humanity’s existential powerlessness and need for a Higher Power.

    This insight is the basis of Alchoholics Anonymous, which is based in Jung’s final recognition of the need for a higher power after he realizes psychology alone could not save humanity.

    Its also the story of St Augustine, and William James rewrites about it in his Varieties Of, and T.D Suzuki does as well.

    So good for Roosh – I wish him luck.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack, YetAnotherAnon
  61. szopen says:
    @Dmitry

    It is laudable because it is always praiseworthy when someone turns from the bad path and decides to pursue new, moral life. It is laudable is former thief decides to stop stealing. It is laudable when former hazard-addict stops his addiction. It is laudable when drunkard becomes tee-totaler. And it is laudable when former player decides to grow up.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  62. @Yevardian

    Our host used to be one of those people blogging about the greatness of Russia while living in the West but I have had great respect for him ever since he actually went back to Russia. The absolute mad man.

    I don’t get the idea that Karlin is faking anything, as easily proven by his choice of rather unprofitable subject. He’s a solid writer and he could make much money shilling for something or promoting supplements or turning himself into some character like Roosh. And it’s too late to become a Game of Thrones blogger…

    Roissy in the beginning (meaning over 10 years ago) was a completely different character, he had his IRL friends show up and there was no racial politics. Actually a lot of his RL friends were black. He started having a very high frequency of posts with very varying writing styles at some point which I assume meant several people were writing stuff and the quality dropped.

    I can’t remember the post that got me banned from Roosh forum but according to the email I was guilty of pro-feminism.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
  63. Mr. Hack says:
    @AaronB

    I’m not familiar with the ‘William Jame rewrites’ but was totally awed with Augutine’s ‘Confessions’, the original hipster for all ages. I highly recommend this biographical masterpiece to all. There’s a good reason it’s considered to be one of the greatest pieces of Western literature.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @advancedatheist
  64. Dmitry says:
    @szopen

    His “playing” looks like frauding similar people, with similar lack of earthly achievement, on the internet, while being below average in real life. So probably, it’s not growing up, but will be simply changing with the fashions, and finding another common way to fraud (now with ebooks about religion) for a small income.

    As in the talkshow, they explain, he makes acquaintances on coachsurfing, and takes photos with random women, and then says on his website they are his girlfriends, even when they don’t know him when they interview them.

    This is despite being American citizen and being in a third-world pro-American country, he is unable to charm any of the guests or presenters.

    former player decides to grow up.

    The actual, destructive “players” usually won’t, because it’s often related to quite bad personality disorders and social parasitism – where women (or men) think they will be married a month after meeting the new love of their life, and then dumped a few days later by the casanova, who will have another one a week later. It’s associated a lot with two or three quite bad personality disorders.

    • Agree: AP
  65. @German_reader

    I predict Roosh returns to whoring. My wife knew a guy like that, he’d bounce between group sex and Jesus. We found a porn of him and his ex-wife on the Internet. It was both amusing and scary.

  66. @Jaakko Raipala

    but I have had great respect for him ever since he actually went back to Russia.

    I’m not impressed by AK still voting in the UK’s EU elections however, since he clearly feels no loyalty to Britain:

    I suppose that was some sort of trolling, but the basic principle (voting for deracinated liberals in the country whose citizenship one holds for convenience, voting for nationalists in the country where your true loyalties lie) reminds me in a negative way of the behaviour of certain immigrant communities.

  67. AaronB says:
    @Mr. Hack

    I’m sorry, I meant William James book “Varieties of Religious Experience”, in which he documents many cases of people trying intensely, heroically, to save themselves through their own efforts and finally acknowledging their own powerlessness, and having a mystical experience of God and a conversion to religion.

    T.D Suzuki suggests that the earlier efforts to save oneself are a necessary prelude – first you have to exhaust all avenues of self effort.

    The parallels to the modern world as a whole are obvious, which is why I am in a way heartened at the more extreme and insane things that are happening, especially the truly crazy gender stuff – we are desperately exhausting all efforts to save ourselves through our own efforts, and are turning to truly extreme things that no one would have considered before. We are trying everything, no matter how crazy.

    When these fail, there will be nothing left to turn to but God.

    But first, we modern Westerners must be convinced we tried everything else. And wer’e getting there.

    Agree about Augustine.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  68. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    If I understand correctly, British Liberal Democrats support UK membership in the EU.

    For people who have a British passport, it is rational to support them, because he doesn’t want to pay for the Schengen visa.

    When you only have a Russian passport, you have to pay for Schengen visa anyway (which is quite cheap), but even a tourist visa to visit the UK or America is extremely expensive and quite inconvenient (submission of biometric data for the former and interview for the latter).

  69. Anon[170] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Not true. What happens in Game of Thrones is even more important than what happens in US, at least based on your posts’ length.

    Have you tried Scooby Doo?

    • Agree: inertial
  70. Mr. Hack says:
    @AaronB

    Agree about Augustine.

    I first read Augustine’s ‘Confessions’ sometime shortly after I had viewed Kubrick’s shocking ‘A Clockwork Orange’. Although the protagonist in the film, Alex, had a greater propensity than Augustine ever exhibited with violence in his youthful indiscretions, both shared an avid interest in sexual adventuring. Also, a big difference is the way Kubrick (different than from in the book) treats Alex’s rehabilitation, as a question of freewill: ‘Is it better to be bad of ones own freewill, or to be good because we’re forced to because of scientific brainwashing? It’s a pity that neither Burgess nor Kubrick ever considered the way of Augustine, a third and more genuine pathway toward redemption.

    More ‘glamorous psychopaths’ in society today?…

  71. @German_reader

    Fuck him for voting in our elections. It doesn’t make any sense for Russian interests either though.

  72. @Mr. Hack

    both shared an avid interest in sexual adventuring

    Alex in Clockwork Orange is a rapist (iirc in the novel he even rapes minors), redemption is probably pretty hard if one is that depraved…
    Interesting element in the novel is of course the language with its Russian influences (“devotchka” etc.).

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Mr. Hack
  73. AaronB says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Interesting.

    To be bad of ones free will and good because of social pressure – a very modern way of putting it.

    Being bad is equated with being independent – I think this is the modern conceit.

    Why not think we are bad because of society and environment, and not free will?

    Because badness is equated with free will and individuality, we increasingly glorify psychopaths – because individuality is our highest virtue.

    But of course being good does mean being less independent – it means being dependent on God and sacrificing some of your self interest for others.

    So extreme individuality and independence, logically, must express itself as badness. So a society that worships independence and individuality must admire psychopaths.

    Our society is merely working out the implications of its premises to their end.

    Of course, one can voluntarily give up independence and voluntarily accept that one is an individual who exists only in dependence on God and other people – that is the third path of religion, which combines the two opposites rather than keeps them in an unstable opposition.

    The path of health and sanity and truth.

    As for the avid pursuit of sex preceding religious conversion, it’s always been recognized that sex has an interesting relation to religion – religion is the longing fur union with God, and sex is one of the most powerful unions we can have on earth.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  74. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    Redemption is possible for even the most depraved criminals. No one is beyond the pale. This is what all the religions tell us.

    I am not sure about gloomy and humorless Germans though 🙂

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @EldnahYm
  75. @Anatoly Karlin

    We’ll see.

    We’ve told ourselves many self-serving things over the years in order to rationalize our commitment to degeneracy. Perhaps these self-serving statements are lies.

    The point in life at which such a lifestyle becomes increasingly unsustainable, conveniently enough.

    Staying up late and drinking heavily becomes unsustainable after a certain point. Being a player doesn’t (at least not in middle age)–the style just evolves.

    That said, with age the nature of your desire changes as well. Or perhaps you simply gain more wisdom.

    This is also especially pertinent in light of the oft made point in the manosphere that there are almost zero truly tradcath girls anyway and that you need at least some knowledge of game to bed and keep them.

    This is where our self-serving statements come into play.

    Does a young man really need to know how to bed dozens of women just to have a good relationship with a girlfriend or wife?

    Perhaps it would be enough to teach young men self-respect, self-reliance, self-improvement, sex differences, and things like conversation and dancing.

    And the self-serving statements go beyond this. Many of us, myself included, have outright ruined various young women (or not so young) and justified it by saying to ourselves that she’s just a woman and a whore anyway (or would’ve become one). That’s outright antisocial behavior which contributes to the tearing down of our society.

    Now I don’t know whether or not I can endorse Roosh’s actions at this time. The wisdom or lack thereof of his decision will reveal itself based on his future behavior and with the fullness of time.

    But I don’t think continuing to teach young men to pursue the “poolside” lifestyle is wise. I mentor some teenagers and early 20-somethings with substance abuse problems, and while I don’t preach from the Bible to the men nor do I preach from The Mystery Method.

  76. David says:
    @iffen

    Better than making shit up, iffen. Ron caught you in a lie and you’ve been yapping at him from a distance ever since. Forgive yourself for being a poser and get over it.

    • Replies: @iffen
  77. @AaronB

    Redemption is possible for even the most depraved criminals.

    I think that’s wrong, some people are beyond redemption.
    And the Christian concept of redemption through faith in Christ can have pretty warped implications anyway…by the traditional standards of Catholicism one could argue that Rudolf Höß would achieve forgiveness because of his conversion while awaiting the gallows…while many of his victims would end up in hell 🙂

    This is what all the religions tell us.

    Nonsense, but then we’re used to that from you.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AP
  78. @Scalper

    “constantly lobbying for men not to settle, marry and have kids and at the same time complaining about third world invasion and “elites” wanting to replace white Westerners.

    Meanwhile, less and less men want to settle and have kids partly because of this – manosphere reinforced – uptrend of male immaturity, pickiness and entitlement”

    There’s a genuine dilemma here, and it’s nothing to do with immaturity or pickiness – not male immaturity and pickiness anyway.

    Marriage must surely be the only contract that you can profit from breaking. A couple of years, a couple of kids, and you’ve got a property and an income for a minimum of 16 years in most jurisdictions. “No-fault” divorce is now the norm, meaning that a lack of tingles for her can rapidly lead to a lack of house, wife, children and income for you.

    Given this, it’s not surprising there’s a reaction. The trouble is that the reaction tends to result in fewer children, which is NOT GOOD, as well as a generation of thirty-something women wondering where all the Good Men have gone, and down the line a generation of childless women who’ve missed the fertility bus.

    To some extent those women have made their own beds. But the demographic shortfall is a serious issue.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  79. Mr. Hack says:
    @German_reader

    Alex in Clockwork Orange is a rapist (iirc in the novel he even rapes minors), redemption is probably pretty hard if one is that depraved…

    You are correct to point out that in the book Alex does the big nasty by raping two 10 year old girls. In the film it’s depicted in a more humorous fashion including consensual sex amongst adults. The beauty of Christianity is that no one is really so depraved to be beyond the pale of redemption. Remember the thief and the murderer at the right and left hand of Christ during the time of the crucifixion?

  80. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    It’s not just s Christian thing – it’s a Mahayana Buddhist thing, and especially featured in Pure Land Buddhism, which astonishingly is almost a version of Christianity with God and is the largest Buddhist denomination in East Asia.

    And I personally know it is an aspect of Judaism.

    by the traditional standards of Catholicism one could argue that Rudolf Höß would achieve forgiveness because of his conversion while awaiting the gallows

    If his conversion is genuine, I don’t see why this should be at all provocative or shocking.

    What are the implications? That one would commit crimes and then have a “sincere” conversion before death? Sincerity cannot be commanded.

    Does that outrage your sense of justice? If it’s a sincere conversion and genuine remorse, it does not outrage mine. I accept it.

    I think your perspective is influenced by the fact that you do not yet acknowledge your own dependence on a higher power.

  81. Mr. Hack says:
    @AaronB

    I agree with most of what you say, however, disagree with the context of your view on sexual union. Of course your’re right that given the context of the sexual union it can be one of the most powerful unions that man can have on earth. However, in our society today, sex is seldom viewed in this fashion, it’s more often looked upon as a healthy and necessary component of a happy lifestyle. Masterbation is only slighty lower on this pyramid leading to sociological bliss. Only Gerorge’s mother was able to shame him back to some semblance of self respect after she caught him in the act, of Seinfeld’s fame:

    Poor George! 🙂

    • Replies: @AaronB
  82. EldnahYm says:
    @AaronB

    Yet many past societies willingly executed people for serious offenses. They also tended to have honor based codes where revenge was seen as justified. Many people are in fact beyond the pale, and many of the worst sorts of criminals were born with traits that make them behave the way they do. False religious doctrines ought to be rejected.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  83. AaronB says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Correct, society today has attempted to eliminate the ‘mystical’ dimension of sexual union and package it as just another hedonic activity that promotes health, very mundane and ordinary. I agree with you there.

    But sex addicts specifically, I feel, are people who suffer for a longing for union with God – as are alcoholics.

    So for some people even today, sex is a substitute for union with God.

    D.H Lawrence, in the early 20th century, tried to promote the mystical dimension of sexual union – but these things are always a substitute for God, and don’t have lasting impact.

    Some of the Indian religions, like tantric yoga, use ritual sex as a way of connecting to God, also. But this is extreme, and seems to me a mistake. But it does illustrate an interesting aspect of sex and its connection to religion.

  84. AaronB says:
    @EldnahYm

    I agree that people may become socially beyond the pale – but not beyond spiritual redemption from God.

    Execution may be necessary and justified among humans, although used sparingly, but this does not address the status of a person’s soul.

  85. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Does a young man really need to know how to bed dozens of women just to have a good relationship with a girlfriend or wife?

    The opposite is probably true.

    A man who has bedded dozens (or even worse, hundreds) of women will probably have a much harder time finding a nice girl worthy of marriage. Most decent women (or men) would not be interested in someone who has had that many partners. It would not be impossible to find such a person if one has many positive qualities and if the person is forgiving or willing to overlook an unsavory past but it places one at a disadvantage.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  86. AaronB says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Perhaps it would be enough to teach young men self-respect, self-reliance, self-improvement, sex differences, and things like conversation and dancing.

    Better advice than the entirety of Roosh’s output.

  87. EldnahYm says:
    @AP

    This is plainly false. It would certainly be true for the reverse case, a woman who has slept around will be undesirable for a decent man, but a man who has done so but still has many desirable qualities can find a decent woman.

    The bigger problem is that most men who have bedded many partners tend to have many negative qualities and tend not to have particularly high standards in their partners anyway.

    • Agree: Kent Nationalist
    • Replies: @AP
    , @szopen
    , @Philip Owen
  88. Matra says:
    @follyofwar

    It appears that Roosh (I have watched his videos, but haven’t read him) has been greatly influenced by Catholic scholar E Michael Jones, whom he recently had on his show. Jones is now being interviewed on various YouTube sites daily

    EMJ has a new book out every other week. This seems to be part of his pension plan.

    Jones has also been a tremendous influence to Owen Benjamin

    Benjamin needs professional help. Imagine living in a country where a whack job like OB has the right to an arsenal of weapons. It’s only a matter of time before he goes postal. His dog will probably be the first victim.

    I’m not a Catholic, nor a practicing Christian, but I’m heartened that so many young people today are listening to Jones’ traditional Catholic Christian message.

    EMJ is a crank. The people who listen to him will just end up hating Anglo-Protestants and welcoming based African Catholics (“they hate fags!”) to the West. No wonder the Ellis Island tradcaths love him so much.

    BTW here is EMJ on Africans becoming Polish: https://twitter.com/JCerkNeville/status/1132107442219696128

  89. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Okay, I’m a Gen-Xer. It was once cool, at age 15 (or rather, 12-13 – by 15 we were more social with girls), to have friends over to play video games (I remember the Atari 2600, Coleco Vision, first Nintendo) for hours. Or doing so at the arcade. Bunch of guys in their twenties regularly doing that together for hours as their primary social behavior are losers.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  90. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AP

    That’s what condoms are for, though.

  91. AP says:
    @EldnahYm

    While it is indeed more acceptable for men to have had more partners than it is for women, after a certain threshold men become less appealing for women. Other positive qualities may compensate, but having had sex with, say, 50 women in itself would be a big turnoff for decent women. When you get into hundreds it would be ridiculous. I nice girl interested in a healthy stable relationship would probably avoid such a man.

    I agree with your second paragraph.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  92. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Hack

    I believe Burgess’ book ends with Alex experiencing a genuine moral revelation and renouncing his previous life; Kubrick cut this from the film.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Mr. Hack
  93. @Anonymous

    Yes, in the novel Alex basically hopes for marrying a nice girl and starting a family in the end. I’ve forgotten the details of what led to this development, but iirc part of it may have been his own victimization (e.g. being beaten up by his former friend who had become a policeman), leading to increased empathy.
    Or maybe I’m misremembering it. But the novel certainly wasn’t as nihilistic as the movie apparently is.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  94. AP says:
    @German_reader

    And the Christian concept of redemption through faith in Christ can have pretty warped implications anyway…by the traditional standards of Catholicism one could argue that Rudolf Höß would achieve forgiveness because of his conversion while awaiting the gallows…while many of his victims would end up in hell

    Assuming his conversion was sincere what is odd or bad about that?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  95. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I always thought PUA stuff was basically a scam, and that whatever legitimate advice they gave was just the most obvious stuff that fathers used to tell their sons around age 13 (dress well, good hygiene, be forward and talk to women–wow what a concept). But at least in America there seems to be a huge number of lost young men looking for surrogate father figures (e.g., Jordan Peterson) so maybe these PUAs did serve a purpose.

    The redpill/blackpill/MGTOW stuff–which from what I understand is basically an offshoot of PUA–has definitely escaped into mainstream circulation though, at least in a diluted, secondhand form. Increasingly it seems that young men are just losing interest in women (and maybe the reverse as well, as Lance Welton suggested in his lesbian article). This is an unspeakable tragedy from a human perspective. I don’t blame the MGTOW guys, imo they are a symptom and not a cause. And I don’t blame women, the majority of whom are not narcissistic feminist sociopaths. Both inhabit a society whose highest values are consumerism and individualism–what we are seeing now is the human debris.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    , @notanon
  96. @AP

    The

    while many of his victims would end up in hell

    part, which of course contradicts basic notions of justice for many people.
    I know many Christians today would see things somewhat differently, but if one believes in redemption/salvation through faith in Christ alone, this seems like a problematic issue regarding God’s justice. It’s the consequence of putting such strong emphasis on belief as the essential virtuous act.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @anonymous coward
  97. AP says:
    @German_reader

    Many of his victims may have been bad people (even if, not nearly as bad as he had been prior to his conversion) and unrepentent at the time of their deaths. So there would not be anything strange about their fate after death.

  98. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    I think Kubrick had a fatalistic worldview to the point where he was considered vaguely right wing. In interviews I’ve read he basically describes Alex as beyond help and chides those who think people like Alex can ever be rehabilitated or reformed. Of course the film is very negative in its portrayals of the police and the criminal-justice system generally, so he wasn’t exactly an authoritarian bootlicker either. Also Wikipedia says that the redemption arc was left out of the book’s early US printings, so Kubrick may not have even known it existed.

    I remember reading that Burgess’ did an adaptation of the book for the theater, which included a scene in which a Kubrick doppelganger wanders on stage and is subsequently beaten to death by Alex and his droogs. I don’t think Kubrick had a great relationship with any of the authors whose works he adapted (although it seems like he genuinely respected Burgess).

  99. Mr. Hack says:
    @Anonymous

    Kubrik felt that the author’s ending was not in harmony with the rest of the book, and that the viewers of the film would actually empathize (subconsciously?) with Alex’s character and would prefer an ending where Alex goes back to his old ways ‘and everything is back to normal in the world’. Those trying to rehabilitate Alex were actually shown to be lousy hypocrites, the same if not worse than Alex himself. Watch the video review in comment #71 for a fuller treatment, towards the end.

    • Replies: @utu
  100. @Anonymous

    In interviews I’ve read he basically describes Alex as beyond help and chides those who think people like Alex can ever be rehabilitated or reformed.

    Well tbh I agree with him about that. Alex is an extremely vicious criminal after all, raping children, committing a home invasion with his gang, brutalizing the man and gang-raping the woman (who eventually dies because the rape was so brutal). imo it’s unlikely people who are so gratuituously cruel can be reformed, they should be executed or locked away permanently. So the original ending of the novel may indeed have been not very realistic.
    I’d have to read the book again though to comment in more detail, it’s been almost 20 years since I read it, and I may misremember parts.

  101. @Anonymous

    I saw the film recently.

    What I particularly noticed was one of the indoctrination scenes, where the playing of Beethoven is specifically and only over the scenes from the Triumph of the Will. This isn’t in the book; I think he mentions Nazi atrocities once or twice, but focuses much more on the Japanese (which makes sense since those were very well-known and actually done to English soldiers). In both book and film, the doctor is obviously Jewish.
    I think Kubrick was certainly saying something by putting those images specifically in combination with the Beethoven, and I have an obvious interpretation of it myself, but I’m interested what he actually meant by it.

    Kubrick’s first film, Paths of Glory, is rather tediously pacifistic. Strangelove is a haphazard satire of (purportedly Anglo and fascistic) American militarism without any real point.

  102. iffen says:
    @David

    Better than making shit up, iffen. Ron caught you in a lie

    I only lie and make shit up if it is important and I have no other choice. No one here has been able to detect any of those instances.

    You are referencing the incident when I confused a plan to bomb the Baku oil fields before the war with a similiar plan to bomb the oil fields during the war.

  103. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Hack

    I don’t agree with some of the interpretations in that video. For example, the idea that the violence was toned down to make it somehow seem it seem more morally acceptable to the audience; I think the real reason was that the film was already very borderline for its time, and Kubrick felt that too much realistic violence and rape would make the film unable to be released (I think this very nearly happened even with the more slapsticky version he produced). Scorsese did a similar thing in Taxi Driver: in Bickle’s rampage scene the blood is brightly colored and washed out, to lessen the impact and thus avoid a ban or ‘X’ rating. He also made the pimp character white when in the script he was black (Bickle’s deepening racism was very overt in the script, but Scorsese thought this would make the film too controversial, so he removed it).

  104. utu says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Kubrick claimed that he did not know the ending of the book as the 21st chapter of the book was not included in the American edition. Let suppose we can believe him but what I find really strange is that Burgess succumbed to the pressure of American editor to skip the last chapter. This tells me Burgess was not really serious about his work or was a weak person and indeed it was true what he later said that he wrote it as “a jeu d’esprit knocked off for money in three weeks.”

  105. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    “Casanovas” (not the kind of angry fraudsters on the internet, but the people actually with this slightly sinister tendency), can continue going as they become older, repeating the same romantic cycle with woman after woman. There will always be more gullible women to believe their compliments and flowers.

    It’s behaviour associated with social parasitism and particular personality disorders, including some of the more dangerous ones (people who are too nice and charming, are often the ones you need to be careful of).

    I have a friend at home who has this personality, and people who meets him will think he is nice and kind, and charms even old people, However, he changes girlfriends through the year, and boasts whenever he is sleeping with two or more different girls. When he is very drunk, he starts touching men on the thighs as well. Also walks in a strange way (so we could recognize him from the other side of the street just from the way he walks). And there are a lot of other ways he is not normal, including when he was at school (although the first impression people have is very friendly).

    I will guess the personality is part of the “hardware” and an innate behaviour that can never be changed.

  106. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    guys in their twenties regularly doing that together for hours as their primary social behavior are losers.

    The picture you describe sounds like happiness, not like losers. Lol are you jealous that other guys have better televisions and consoles than you?

    I understand that playing golf or squash is more stereotypical for adults. But there is nothing intrinsically better in playing golf, than in playing mario kart.

    • Replies: @AP
  107. Eh, they are the tips of the iceberg of the “manosphere”

    Unironically, it’s headquarters is on Reddit of all places, and they still haven’t managed to delete them. Oh well, another face will appear

  108. Thomm says:
    @szopen

    ‘Degenerate’? A lot of the androsphere is Men’s Rights Advocates (MRAs) who actively fight the horrendously unfair laws. This work is needed.

    Plus, you sound like a cuckservative. You need to read Dalrock (who is a Christian manosphere blogger, and a happily married man).

    Plus, you need to learn about ‘Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks’ in order to recognize that you are the latter (i.e. you bought the cow when she gave it away for free when she was younger).

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @szopen
  109. @Dmitry

    I can’t imagine the women on this show responding to anything less than indisputable evidence of wealth.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  110. Thomm says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Staying up late and drinking heavily becomes unsustainable after a certain point. Being a player doesn’t (at least not in middle age)–the style just evolves.

    Yep.

    Does a young man really need to know how to bed dozens of women just to have a good relationship with a girlfriend or wife?

    After ~15 or so lays with attractive women, most men saturate and no longer find this fun. Their libido drops and they are quite content with infrequent sex by that point. Some marry, but the manosphere has done yeoman work in exposing how marriage is far too risky for most men to enter. That was the biggest contribution from the manosphere, not ‘PUA’ life.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    , @Anonymous
  111. Thomm says:
    @German_reader

    The only one on Unz review who may have some influence is Sailer, since some mainstream journos occasionally take note of him, or even retweet him. But that was already the case before he came to Unz review.

    False. Sailer was a nobody until Heartiste started linking to him. Heartiste was responsible for about 80% of Sailer’s audience.

    At the end of the day, Sailer is a one-trick pony and most of his articles are mere gossip, or most of the same-old that does not require five posts a day.

    Steve is a 100 IQ blogger catering to an 80 IQ audience.

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Troll: Anatoly Karlin
  112. @Thorfinnsson

    What? What? There’s more to marriage than sex? You are a fuddy duddy reactionary. Back to the 1950’s you go.

  113. @EldnahYm

    “This is plainly false. It would certainly be true for the reverse case, a woman who has slept around will be undesirable for a decent man, but a man who has done so but still has many desirable qualities can find a decent woman.”

    Not where and when I came from. A real man shows restraint and self control at least until he loses it completely. There was a lot of Calvinism about.

  114. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    An excellent portrait of a real liberal (no neo about it) globalist. No nonsense about democracy. Free trade is enough.

  115. @Mr. Hack

    I consider Augustine an A- intellect at best. He also provides the first example I can find of someone who went around “identity shopping,” which has become the norm for the deracinated, alienated, atomized individuals in the modern world. He felt that he lacked an identity, so to try to construct one, he read the limited selection of philosophical works he had access to (Latin translations, because he struggled to learn Greek), he talked to cult evangelists like a Manichaean named Faustus, and eventually he settled on becoming a certain kind of Christian.

    Perhaps Augustine’s story of his own identity shopping resonates with modern readers for that reason. But the process still results in individuals who clearly lack something that people with organic, authentic identities enjoy.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  116. Dmitry says:
    @Philip Owen

    He has a difficult combination entering the show, of being ugly and being poor (despite being American), and then also creating racism against brown people as an Arab sex tourist.

    He has no charm or social awareness, yet is marketing as someone who is attractive for women (when he is the opposite of attractive). It simply creates uncomfortable sensations for the Ukrainian talkshow, and for anyone who watches the video.

    It’s incredibly cringe, even just skimming the video. Especially when the women he puts photos of on his website, do not know who he is.

    It’s understandable why he is angry- but it’s also not interesting either. If you are as unattractive as he is, then relations with women probably will cause bad emotions – just like someone who is very short and unathletic might become frustrated and angry at the basketball court.

  117. Jason Liu says:

    Roosh is a smart guy. His takes on the culture war (on his RooshV) blog are often prescient, one of the best analysts around. Unfortunately he’s also a huge panderer who just says what his followers want to hear. His site and books are clearly moneymaking operations. Still, he’s done far more than the average alt-righter.

  118. @Anonymous

    “whatever legitimate advice they gave was just the most obvious stuff that fathers used to tell their sons around age 13 “

    But there are millions of boys growing up without fathers, as in “there seems to be a huge number of lost young men“.

    “I don’t blame women, the majority of whom are not narcissistic feminist sociopaths”

    Women, far more than men (at least in Western culture, couldn’t speak for India or China) will tend towards being whatever the culture rewards them for being. At the moment, they’re definitely being rewarded for being narcissistic and feminist, and maybe for being sociopathic as well – look at how many babies are killed each year.

  119. @AaronB

    He was not successful with women or life, but he was a fantastic marketer who made a career of being a loser with an intuitive grasp of how to appeal to losers. (And his hook clearly caught Karlin).

    Nice shiv.

    Hard to describe Thorfinnsson as a loser, though. And he was apparently rather involved in that scene (much more than myself).

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    , @AaronB
  120. @Jaakko Raipala

    Thanks.

    The hilarious thing about the people who claim I am being paid by Putin, neocons, Jews, and everything in between is that my choices of what to write about and how have been epically bad from a financial perspective.

  121. @German_reader

    1. If Britons cared about that they would should reconsider their naturalization procedures. Best of luck to Kent Nationalist in kicking rootless cosmopolitans out of his country. But in the meantime, I am certainly not going to willingly abandon what is a rather useful piece of paper.

    2. The chances of (crypto-Brexiteer) Labour not winning in the precinct I’m registered in is perhaps 0.1%.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  122. I am certainly not going to willingly abandon what is a rather useful piece of paper.

    Nobody even suggested that you should take as drastic a step as giving up your citizenship, it was about you voting in the EU elections, despite not residing in Britain and clearly not identifying with Britain in any meaningful way. I think you know yourself that’s a pretty lame thing to do.

    The chances of (crypto-Brexiteer) Labour not winning in the precinct I’m registered in is perhaps 0.1%.

    I thought EU elections in Britain have proportional representation, so votes don’t just get “lost” like in UK parliamentary elections.
    Anyway, I guess I’ve fulfilled my quota of “being mean to Anatoly Karlin” for this month, so I’ll leave it at that.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Yevardian
  123. @Thorfinnsson

    We’ve told ourselves many self-serving things over the years in order to rationalize our commitment to degeneracy. Perhaps these self-serving statements are lies.

    Correct. It just so happens that I believe this continues indefinitely.

    I can’t take people who turn to Christian morality on hitting 40 after a lifetime more “degenerate” than 99.9% of the population seriously. It is equivalent to a deathbed conversion. Sure, there’s a dim chance its genuine, but more likely it’s a cynical hedging of bets. And I certainly wouldn”t be taking lessons in theology from such a person, or advising anybody else to do so.

    Under the strictures of actual Christianity any true repentance requires a lengthy period of penance and atonement. Perhaps Roosh will have something worth hearing on these matters after a decade of abstinence and self-effacement. I don’t actually want to be overly harsh on Roosh because he has undergone real trauma (the death of his sister, and extreme personal attacks). But the way he is acting now is no more Christian than when he was banging Argentina or whatever.

    TLDR: While he had genuinely useful things to say about game – which could be used for good or ill – I really couldn’t care less about his lame regurgitations of some second-rate YouTube preacher.

    Perhaps it would be enough to teach young men self-respect, self-reliance, self-improvement, sex differences, and things like conversation and dancing.

    E.g., somewhat relevant in more traditional societies (e.g. Austria which still has balls), but what exactly will teaching dancing do in places where it boils down to animalistic gyrations in the nightclub? (i.e. the vast majority of the modern world – that includes EE and ex-USSR).

    This smacks too much of “just be yourself” (worst life advice ever).

  124. Men need some premarital experience to become better fathers. They can draw on this experience to help their own sons learn to navigate the mysterious world of girls when the time comes. And they can recognize the sorts of men they want their daughters to date, while also steering these girls away from the men who would likely damage them.

    Mothers, and especially single ones, don’t do a good job in either area.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  125. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    Voting is completely irrational from a political perspective.

    It’s not necessarily stupid to vote for all people, though (although personally, I would never vote in an election), just because it can be free entertainment for certain kinds of people, just as others enjoy reading poetry or writing comments on the internet forum.

    Criticizing another individual person for their vote choice can only make sense from an aesthetic perspective – or as showing good or bad taste of the person, or perhaps theoretical intelligence, in some alternate universe where their vote could be multiplied by a thousand -, since their individual vote will make no difference to election outcome.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  126. @Anatoly Karlin

    E.g., somewhat relevant in more traditional societies (e.g. Austria which still has balls), but what exactly will teaching dancing do in places where it boils down to animalistic gyrations in the nightclub? (i.e. the vast majority of the modern world – that includes EE and ex-USSR).

    This smacks too much of “just be yourself” (worst life advice ever).

    I think we can take some game advice but repurpose it towards courtship rather than escalating to the bang, let alone “spinning plates”.

    This will also require changing typical approach venues. Instead of clubs, social media, dating apps, day approaches in large cities, etc. it would require joining social circles and integrating yourself into your community.

    So instead of presenting to receptive sluts at the night club in order to fornicate, you show masculine leadership by organizing a Red Cross blood drive and then asking out one of the nurses for coffee. Instead of escalating to the bang, you escalate to lunch. Et cetera.

    This is just thinking out loud of course. Cue some old dorks saying “of course blah blah blah”.

    • Agree: Dreadilk
  127. @Dmitry

    although personally, I would never vote in an election

    Lol.
    I hope you’ll not be complaining then, when some “gamer masterrace” party comes to power and starts genociding console gamer bydlo like yourself 🙂

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  128. Mark G. says:
    @Thomm

    The PUA writers like Roissy and Roosh only became popular because the traditional dating advice was no longer working so well for young men. Government, in the form of the welfare state, had largely replaced men as economic providers. The life of Julia doesn’t have any need for a bring home the bacon husband in it. Women have started placing more importance on male looks and personality. Women have started picking men for the same reasons that men traditionally picked women. There’s been a big rise in gym memberships for men and an increased male interest in fashion and grooming. The main interest of the PUA writers was the personality aspect of attracting women. The books and blogs they produced replaced the older “how to get rich” type literature that had been popular among young men in earlier eras. No one wants to be the chump who works hard to make money just to have the government tax it away to give to someone else. The critics of the PUA philosophy correctly see that traditional marriage was better but often don’t understand that to go back to that you need to roll back the increased welfare for women, eliminate the affirmative action that gives women high paying jobs that would normally go to men, and to reform marriage and divorce laws that have resulted in two thirds of divorces being initiated by women because they correctly see that being divorced is a better deal for them than staying married. Just lecturing young men about how they should get married, as many of the critics of the PUA philosophy seem to do, isn’t going to work by itself.

    • Agree: Thomm
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Dmitry
  129. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    There’s another advantage – your voting preferences will not be recorded in any official places. E.g.One could learn Unreal Engine and start building some boring RPGs and “gamer masterrace” will have no reason to put you in the labour camp.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  130. @Dmitry

    your voting preferences will not be recorded in any official places.

    Officially at least there’s still a secret ballot.
    On an individual level you’re right of course, a single vote doesn’t matter…but multiply it by thousands, tens of thousands etc. and this apolitical “I only care about my nice little bourgeois life, don’t want to be bothered by politics” attitude does matter and has pernicious consequences.
    There’s also the matter of honor and self-respect. Even if those I regard as enemies will win in the end, I still want to make it a little bit harder for them. It would be pathetic not even to do the easy things like voting or signing petitions.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  131. @Mark G.

    Mostly correct. I don’t care much for manosphere & have only superficial knowledge of it. From what I’ve seen Roissy was/is basically a nihilist white nationalist, a true radical whose womanizing was just a phase in his nationalist “awakening”; Roosh, on the other hand, is a hedonistic entertainer who, if he is sincere, has matured, but is still naive & spouts nonsense on conspiracy theories.

    A nihilist prophet & a hedonist entertainer.

  132. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Read St. Augustine’s Confessions.

  133. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    The picture you describe sounds like happiness, not like losers.

    Well, and some losers in their 50s think that banging a different Thai prostitute several times weekly is happiness.

    Lol are you jealous that other guys have better televisions and consoles than you?

    I stopped playing video games when I was 18 or so. But I was the first kid with those toys when they came out, and people were at my house. I still have this thing, in my attic:

    Someone beyond the teen years who is playing videogames in his house as his primary activity, rather than going out with people and doing stuff, is a loser.* Just as a 40 year old going out to bars to hook up with random women rather than being home or elsewhere with his family is a loser.

    I understand that playing golf or squash is more stereotypical for adults

    I never got into golf. But spending time outside with friends and wrapping up at the clubhouse afterwards is different from sitting in a room in front of a screen.

    * A caveat to all this – there are people on the autism spectrum who can’t tolerate normal activities. Nothing wrong with them being limited to this type of activity.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Mr. Hack
  134. Dmitry says:
    @Mark G.

    But literature about dating is probably not going to be helpful, especially if it is written by some crazy guy who is not charming, and just will be a role-model for what not to be like with your life.

    This is in a category where just because people self-publish a book about something, doesn’t mean they have relevant advice, or that it at best will be anything more than entertainment.

  135. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    a single vote doesn’t matter…but multiply it by thousands, tens of thousands etc.

    This is irrelevant because you are not multiplied by thousands.

    This is a case of magical thinking, where you imagine because your preference might be representative of a set of people who share this preference, that it means it has any causal impact on those people. But those people will do what you want – and if you choose to vote or not (whether representative or not) has no causal relation to that.

    those I regard as enemies will win in the end, I still want to make it a little bit harder for them.

    It’s unlikely that a vote will make a difference.

    If you want to understand how funny the idea is in relation to numbers, why not make a YouTube account to vote on the latest PewDiePie video. And notice that the vote count on those videos is less than in your national elections.

    All that said, if you find it entertaining to vote, then ignore my comment, which of knowledge of that could reduce the entertainment value of the activity

    • Replies: @iffen
  136. AP says:

    It’s unlikely that a vote will make a difference.

    Well,if one person throws a cigarette or a piece of paper on the ground it doesn’t make a difference. But if everyone does, you are living in a filthy place.

    It is the same thing when an intelligent and thoughtful person such as you chooses not to vote.

  137. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    While I appreciate your photo of classic Atari.

    Someone beyond the teen years who is playing videogames in his house as his primary activity, rather than going out with people and doing stuff,

    That is not true – or at best, it seems to be based on what activities you like and don’t lik.

    Another person could as easily say that writing comments on Karlin’s forum above age of 30 is only for losers, and that nonlosers over 30 years are using their time to fish in the local river.

    Symbolically for this discussion, Miyamoto was 40 when Mario Kart was released, and generations will be indebted to his 40 year old video game oriented genius.

    a 40 year old going out to bars to hook up with random women rather than being home or elsewhere with his family is a loser.

    Judgement will depend on a more detailed description of the people in either scenario that you provide, and will not operate as an exceptionless rule, but at best a tendency.

    Perhaps the 40 year man in the bar, is a very interesting man, who houses and looks after orphaned puppies which will ensure good karma and a high-status reincarnation in his next life. Perhaps the 40 year with his family, is a boring person with bad karma, whose children will become serial killers. Etc. Their going to bar or not might be a small detail in the painting, and it doesn’t seem very determinative one way or other, although we might observe that 40 year olds in bars on average are more losers (or less losers).

    • Replies: @AP
  138. thordaddy says:

    Higher power = objective Supremacy…

    The truly degenerate deny (P)erfection.

    Western man is racially-incarnated.

    The story of white boy is his desire for (S)upremacy…

    The story of white man is his hatred for “universal equality.”

    Fathers and sons of the white race must partake in each other’s vision.

  139. Thomm says:
    @Matt Forney

    If a non-white man has more character and integrity than half the “white advocates” I’ve ever known, then maybe white genocide is a mercy killing.

    Two problems :

    i) Roosh is white. There was a big debate about this at Heartiste. Heartiste himself looked at the points presented by each side and ruled that Roosh is white. The exact term he used was ‘APC huwhyte’.

    ii) Remember that the ‘white advocates’ you describe are bottom-decile whites, and have no character, intelligence, or talents. They are not representative of mainstream whites at all, which is why we keep them out of mainstream white society. They are ‘White Trashionalists’ who are also accurately described as ‘Wiggers’ under the 21st century definition of the term.

    You were among the manosphere luminaries who exposed how much homosexuality there is within modern White Nationalism. Their lack of other worthwhile traits should be no surprise to you. Of course they were going to let you down.

  140. Yevardian says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Well, we don’t have anything but his “I’m really rich, ignore the cattle” type posting to back that up. It seems extremely unlikely to me that an American Swede would take such a worldview considering the insulated bubble he would have grown up in if everything he said about himself were true.
    Nor does it seem likely that a business owner and extroverted renaissance man as he portrays himself would have the interest to regularly post on an fringe site like this.

    It’s a truism that the two things people lie about more than anything else are wealth and success with women, and another that truly successful people don’t brag to strangers.

    He’s still a good commenter regardless of whether he’s posting from his mother’s basement though.

    • Replies: @AP
  141. Yevardian says:
    @German_reader

    Anyway, I guess I’ve fulfilled my quota of “being mean to Anatoly Karlin” for this month, so I’ll leave it at that.

    It’s for his own good.

  142. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    I never got into golf. But spending time outside with friends and wrapping up at the clubhouse afterwards is different from sitting in a room in front of a screen.

    There are many fantastic and realistic video games that simulate playing real golf. Already twenty years ago (the last time that I was actively playing these types of games) the realism was uncanny, I can almost imagine and marvel at what they must be like today. You can still socialize during and after the game, have drinks and eats, and bypass the expensive playing fees involved in real golf. There’s also the time element involved in playing the real game – for me (and others) the video games provided plenty of opportunity for socializing with friends.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  143. The alt-right/dissident right is just getting started.

    PUA and MGTOW have nothing to do with the alt-right.

    Right wing parties are picking up steam all over the world.

    Only the nose would claim that the alt-right is dying, because
    the nose does nothing but lie.

    The leftwing media outlets are dying, and you can take that to the bank.

    The right has all of the brightest minds. The left has only censorship and violence.

    Unz has a good following and a decent Alexa ranking.

    The alt-right speaks the truth, for the most part, and the truth has a way of converting people.

  144. AP says:
    @Yevardian

    I think AK met him and corroborated his background.

  145. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Matt Forney

    If a non-white man has more character and integrity than half the “white advocates” I’ve ever known, then maybe white genocide is a mercy killing.

    But Roosh is white isn’t he?

  146. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Another person could as easily say that writing comments on Karlin’s forum above age of 30 is only for losers, and that nonlosers over 30 years are using their time to fish in the local river.

    I would say that someone who systematically sacrifices going to the river to fish, or to engage in other real activities, in order to sit in front of a computer for most purposes, is a loser.

    “a 40 year old going out to bars to hook up with random women rather than being home or elsewhere with his family is a loser.”

    Judgement will depend on a more detailed description of the people in either scenario that you provide, and will not operate as an exceptionless rule, but at best a tendency.

    Correct, I was speaking of generalities which is the only way to make broad conclusions. And generally speaking people living lifestyles appropriate for those much younger than they are, are losers and sad, be they 20 year olds living like 12 year olds or 40 year olds living like 20 year olds. A 20 year old taking university courses, delivering pizza for cash, all of which is spent on rent (or his parents pay his rent) and for going out to bars or concerts with friends, who shares a small apartment with 3 friends, and maybe having a new girl every few months, is normal. A 40 year old doing all those exact things is a loser, and sad. This should not be hard to understand.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  147. @Yevardian

    Do you think our dear host is any different?

    If Mr. Karlin was so self-centered, he’d be making over $200k easily in Silicon Valley rather than take on the very, um, popular positions that he’s taking with his real name. Heck, he’d could have easily done much better just writing for the glory of globohomo, to which I’m sure that he had plenty of opportunities to “get into” if he wished to.

  148. @AP

    I would say that someone who systematically sacrifices going to the river to fish, or to engage in other real activities, in order to sit in front of a computer for most purposes, is a loser.

    Irrelevant difference, since that’s just switching programs from one simulated reality to an another simulated reality.

    • Replies: @AP
  149. Dreadilk says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I don’t think anyone is saying to listen to Roosh.

    He has his part to play and that is tending to his following, those are the people that his change impacts not anyone new.

    As far as advice for young people many will be lost due to lack of resources to reach everyone. Entire world has forsaken traditional communities so it will take time and generations to rebuild what was lost. Thor’s advice to young people is relevant as far as bringing that goal to be.

    It’s not be your self advice. It is going back to the basics. And as far as women are concerned there are plenty that want traditional life. Problem arises from the fact that big portion of society are low IQ peasants and people expect of them more than they can do.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  150. @Mr. Hack

    Playing a specific cooperative MMORPG helped me develop real-life strategy on an incredible level and I think doubtlessly helped me get to my career, because at the end of the day, you’re still trying to solve a common problem as in real life: how to get people to work together against other people who are working together to destroy you.

    I actually got a recruitment offer from a government agency on it, so they’re not neglecting its utility in finding people of a certain acumen and personality.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @AP
    , @Mr. Hack
    , @notanon
  151. @Dreadilk

    It’s not be your self advice. It is going back to the basics. And as far as women are concerned there are plenty that want traditional life. Problem arises from the fact that big portion of society are low IQ peasants and people expect of them more than they can do.

    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man.

    I think one of the major challenges is that the environment has changed so much that much of what is seen as traditional is much harder to replicate. Families are smaller, so help from family with children is harder. Laws and expectations mean that children need more attention, so someone has to always be there with them. Socially, being a homemaker is looked down upon and it is much more lonely since easy mobility and lower trust in communities reduce or eliminate neighbors as a source of social contact. The various other economic factors have been frequently mentioned(two earner incomes boosting the price of family goods), but one that isn’t remarked on much is that the very nature of income-earning moved away from the house so the domestic economy ceased to be and the family unit as an economic unit immeasurably lost its importance.

    I believe that such traditions, roughly hewn, are beautiful and that most of us are well evolved for it. But to fit it into this new environment that we have wrought upon ourselves is not an insignificant challenge.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Dreadilk
  152. notanon says:
    @German_reader

    its political importance is non-existent

    older people yes.

    younger people it’s very significant.

  153. AP says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    In your specific case it was a healthy activity.

  154. Dreadilk says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Sacrifice must be made. Everything I sacrificed I have not regretted. Time preference that extends beyond one’s life time is how you get back all we have lost. My kids will not have to go through half the shit I did.

  155. notanon says:
    @prime noticer

    richard spencer did the most damage, by far.

    disagree in the details.

    given the increasingly overt anti-white dominant culture and shrinking white percentage of the population an attempt at some form of white identity politics was inevitable (and in theory consistent with the multicult itself if the multicult wasn’t a con).

    before Spencer et al stirred the pot it wasn’t obvious to most that TPTB were never going to allow any form of white BLM or La Raza no matter how small a minority white people became – whereas now it is completely plain what their final solution is.

    i’m not saying Spencer et al realized what they were doing but triggering the bad guys into showing their true intentions was a great service – whether intentional or otherwise.

  156. notanon says:
    @Scalper

    How could the Alt Right collapse if it never had any political relevance?

    the cultural Marxists proved politics is downstream from culture.

    the alt-right already changed the culture among a significant number of young males – which is the demographic that matters for long term predictions.

  157. AP says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I suspect you’re kidding but:

    Avoiding living in the real world in order to spend time on a computer game is like sacrificing playing modern games in order to play something like the original Pac Man or Donkey Kong, but more so. It’s like choosing an inflatable doll over a real woman, porn over actual sex, listening to a concert on an old CD player rather than being at the concert if given the choice, choosing to use an antique black and white TV vs. a new 4k one, etc. There is something strange with people who choose to do these things systematically.*

    Once could conceptualize this, like veganism or vegetarianism, it may be a twisted modern way of expressing old-fashioned self-denial and asceticism. But given the overall atmosphere of materialism and hedonism, I suspect that those avoiding the real world are not modern monks but just immature people. We in the West are living in an age of regression and immaturity, after all. While Russians are getting married and starting families in their 20s, many Westerners are still playing video games. Average age of first child is 25 in Ukraine, Belarus and Russia, 26.5 in Poland – but 30 in the UK, 29 in Germany.

    * I do not mean casual users, but those for whom this is the preferred activity. It is normal to regress on occasion, but sad if most of one’s life is like that.

  158. Mr. Hack says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Don’t most pilots today spend a lot of time first training with simulated electronic programs before flying actual planes? I’m sure that a lot of other ‘real life’ activities have been simulated by such programs to help those in need acquire necesary skills in a safer, less expensive manner? Who’s to really say what’s age appropriate for individuals when choosing leisure time activities? My game playing experiences were limited mostly to simulated golf and auto racing games usually against other live players. Sure, I think that some individuals might limit their abilities to socialize with other real life people by substituting game play with human interaction. Lots of kids are characterized as having stunted social interaction skills due to their intense proclivities for solitary play.

    • Replies: @Adam
  159. notanon says:
    @Mitleser

    The American alt-right does not become more important than European radical right-wingers just because they are American.

    initially the war of ideas is more important and the US has been the most main engine for alt-right ideas cos 1st amendment.

    (nb a lot of non-Americans have been involved on the US scene)

    They would need to have at least the same success, but they don’t.

    partly geography (too big) and partly lack of ethnic homogeneity imo – after mass immigration from Europe was temporarily stopped in 1924 America needed at least a century or two to merge into an actual euromutt blood nation but unfortunately that didn’t happen.

  160. notanon says:
    @Anonymous

    Problem is that white boys buy into it.

    they buy into females having a particular nature

    which leads to HBD, heredity, evolutionary thinking etc

    which leads to understanding that trad morality was the end result of evolutionary trial and error

    which (for the majority) ultimately leads to pater familias.

    so you’re right it started off being about getting casual sex but it ended up vaccinating them against cultural Marxist poisoning.

  161. notanon says:
    @Anonymous

    whatever legitimate advice they gave was just the most obvious stuff that fathers used to tell their sons around age 13

    key words: “used to”

  162. notanon says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    but what exactly will teaching dancing do in places where it boils down to animalistic gyrations in the nightclub?

    right – a healthy society would need to go back to chaperoned formal dances.

  163. Mr. Hack says:
    @advancedatheist

    But the process still results in individuals who clearly lack something that people with organic, authentic identities enjoy.

    Which is?…

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  164. Adam says:
    @Mr. Hack

    When I was in school a lot of my social interaction was through video games. My friends and I would always play online games and chat for hours after school. I wasn’t a nerd or an outcast either, stuff like that is just normal nowadays.

    I wouldn’t say I was socially stunted and I feel nostalgic about those times, but it was a pretty lame way to spend my childhood. Kids and adolescents ought to spend most of their time outside.

    • Replies: @AP
  165. notanon says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    i saw a youtube video of someone using voice chat to coordinate a giant space battle in Eve which perfectly illustrated the power of “commander” voice.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  166. Not Raul says:
    @German_reader

    There are probably millions of voters in the UK who feel no loyalty to the UK.

  167. szopen says:
    @Thomm

    First, I have been talking about PUAs, not whole manosphere.
    Second, I’ve used to read Dalrock, but he makes no sense to me at times, mainly because I am atheist and Polish.
    Second, i know the slogan “alpha fucks, beta bucks”. It’s the worst slogan which sounds as it was coined by the enemies of the western civilisation. Civilisation is built by betas. Moreover, if you are valuing a men by a number of women he fucked instead of respect gained from other men, then your opinion is of no value to me.

    • Replies: @Dreadilk
  168. szopen says:
    @Thomm

    Another thing: I’ve read a lot of blogs discussing the Game, sociosexual hierarchy etc years before term “alt-right” started to be popular. And I can say that a lot of what they say is true, and a lot of insights are valuable and some even changed my life; however one thing is to recognize biological realities, and second thing is to live as a slave to a biology (before utu will say something sarcastic, I am using “slave to a biology” in a sense someone following base instincts etc, because yes, we are all in a sense slaves to a biology).

    It’s true that most (but not all) women are getting wet for alphas. It’s true that your western laws are sometimes unfair, and that those laws and customs are now spreading to my country. But it does not mean I should decide that I should abandon my moral rules. Realities are as they are, but we are men and we should do something to change the reality.

    A digression: There is nothing wrong with being a beta. I’ve personally knew some men who could be called “alphas” years before I started to read manosphere. Most of them were dislikable jerks, arseholes and the world would lose nothing if they would just all die. World without alphas would still have civilisation and technical progress, though it would be more boring and would progress more slowly. World without betas, with alphas alone – would be a Yanomani jungle.

    Also, if I am cuckservative, then you are commie-worshipping hedonist.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  169. iffen says:
    @Dmitry

    a single vote doesn’t matter…

    “For the want of a nail”

  170. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    given the rather peculiar nature of most of the content

    Where do you place Professor Thompson’s posts?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  171. Dreadilk says:
    @szopen

    Look up sociosexual hiarchy by Vox Day. It breaks down men into more than two groups and explains a lot of behavior.

    Edit: NVM read the next post. Any ranking from sociosexual hiarchy that is too pronounced would be bad for society. So any society run by one rank will be disfunctional.

  172. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    a 500 year attempt by humanity to save itself through its own power

    If you are going to wander about in the light of your jar of moonbeams peddling pixie dust, you need to get your chronology straight.

    Genesis 3: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof …

  173. AP says:
    @Adam

    Agreed. I think most of us raised in the West spent a few years like that. But as you indicated, how you lived was normal in adolescence (if not ideal). Someone in their 20s still living like that, not so much.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  174. AaronB says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Lol, overall Thorfinsson is a cool dude with a lot to contribute, but it is equally obvious that he has had periods of “loserdom” in his life, especially when it comes to women, and has struggled in certain ways which there is no point going into…

    A week ago he made a supremely silly comment that no proud man would make – that women hate it when a man does not have a restaurant preference, because it doesn’t show “leadership”.

    I assure you, it is perfectly ok if you don’t have a restaurant preference. You will not be seen as a pathetic loser by women lol.

    But someone who does not “overall” get along with women and is somewhat mystified as to why, begins to seize on insignificant details like these, as like onto a lifeboat.

    Not saying that Thor is now doing poorly with women – in fact his more mature comments on this thread show he probably is doing much better than the Thor who is scared to honestly admit he doesn’t care which restaurant he goes to.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Anonymous
  175. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    Another person could as easily say that writing comments on Karlin’s forum above age of 30 is only for losers, and that nonlosers over 30 years are using their time to fish in the local river.

    Dmitry brings up a great point that needs addressing. The act of blogging is in itself a form of entertainment that can be compared to gaming (for me anyway). It’s a way of socializing, however, mostly with people you don’t really know, with people all around the world. For me, my gaming days were when I was younger (so to an extent you are correct, that it’s an activity that should be pursued by a younger crowd), in the neighborhood in which I grew up, with childhood friends (although we were at least 10 years past what I think you would consider an appropriate age for such activities). Moving to new city, the new friends that I made were older and weren’t into that type of socializing. Blogging is a convenient way to socialize with folks, offers some intellectual bantering, but can possibly also present some socialization problems. For one, it can be a drag on ones productive time. Also, it might take away from time with family and more ‘wholesome’ pursuits like fishing in the fresh air? Your move?

    • Replies: @AP
  176. @AaronB

    Very basic misreading.

    It’s not about having a restaurant preference, which you may indeed may not have or perhaps your preference is something she despises. If you love the SONIC ® Drive-In more than anything in the world and like a True Alpha™ demand all femoids SUBMIT to your disgusting restaurant preference you might be surprised to discover your game doesn’t get you far.

    It’s about leadership, or lack thereof. If you don’t have a restaurant preference then you can for instance suggest a restaurant you know is right up her alley. People (not just women) especially like it when you read them well enough that you know their tastes and preferences and can provide them with new options they didn’t know existed and fully delight them.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Daniel Chieh
  177. AaronB says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I don’t think its useful to analyze leadership at this level of specificity. It is perfectly OK to let women make some of the decisions. You don’t literally have to decide everything.

    People (not just women) especially like it when you read them well enough that you know their tastes and preferences and can provide them with new options they didn’t know existed and fully delight them

    .

    I agree this would be a nice gesture, some of the time at least. It shows caring. But that’s a different issue.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  178. @follyofwar

    I’m heartened that so many young people today are listening to Jones’ traditional Catholic Christian message

    Jones is a complete nutjob.

  179. utu says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Your hostility to Christianity is understandable in the light of your comments showing that you are a Hindu immigrant sympathizer (in Stockholm) or perhaps you are Indian yourself or married to an Indian. You would not be the first commenter here who pretends to be European like the vehement anti-trashnationalist Thomm who most definitively is Indian.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  180. @Thulean Friend

    He is wrong about race (although he has extensively documented the damage done by Jews and blacks to whites explicitly) but right about many other things.

  181. @utu

    Your hostility to Christianity

    I prefer a traditional society, in which a traditional Christian would be an ally of mine in many social questions. What I mock is his laughable claim that if it wasn’t for Catholicism, then Europe would be Africa. That is race-blind idiocy that is very common among white conservsatives in the US.

    Same US conservatives claim that the reason why Detroit is a shithole is because of “decades of liberal rule” or “abortions”. Surely you’re not so daft that you don’t get what I’m mocking here with his tweet?

  182. @iffen

    tbh I rarely read them, but I suppose they’re pretty good and scientifically accurate.
    But that’s not what most of Unz review is about. The dominant impression most people will get when looking at Unz review is that it’s basically a nutty conspiracy theory site, with strong emphasis on antisemitism and WW2 revisionism.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    , @iffen
  183. @German_reader

    I was going to send my mother a Sailer article that would have interested her, but stopped when I saw that the featured book was about the Holocaust

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @fnn
    , @iffen
  184. @Kent Nationalist

    A shame that your mother is a coward, but next time that’s a problem just print the article as a PDF and e-mail an attachment.

  185. @Matra

    EMJ has a new book out every other week. This seems to be part of his pension plan.

    This shows your ignorance of the man.

    E. Michael Jones has been printing books, seemingly once a month, for about as long as I can remember, which means at least two or three decades. Hardly anyone buys these books. If that is his pension plan, then it is a very modest one. After all, the guy lives in an decidedly moderate house in a thoroughly Rust Belt city, South Bend.

    His hypothetical African refugee answer is also ENTIRELY hypothetical since Globohomo would never allow for an African refugee to actually attempt to acculturate himself to Polish mores or any other regional/national mores.

    The main thing to remember with E. Michael Jones is that he talks. A lot. He loves to talk. That’s why he writes so much and publishes so many books. He cannot keep his mouth shut.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  186. @Kent Nationalist

    I think it’s utterly unreal for some of these anti-Christian stooges here to make harsh comments about Jones’s opinion on race. Jones has written ‘The Slaughter of Cities,’ a far more lucid opinion on American racial history than just about any of these goofs could ever think to write. The whole point of that book is that organic white communities were wiped out intentionally by blacks acting as stool pigeons for the powerful.

    • Agree: Adam, Kent Nationalist
    • Disagree: iffen
  187. @Thulean Friend

    Let’s flesh this out:

    Assumption: Europe will not have its true moral voice without the authentic voice of the Roman Catholic Church

    Fact: Europe currently lacks a moral voice

    Fact: Europe is, demographically speaking, becoming something like Africa

    Theory: Perhaps those two facts are related to the first assumption

    Now, you people can keep on trying to re-build Europe without the Catholic Church – I wish you luck with that.

    • Agree: AaronB, AP
    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @notanon
  188. @Thulean Friend

    You have no idea what you’re talking about

    Jones wrote an entire book dedicated to the idea that Detroit sucks because it’s now ruled by blacks

    • Replies: @notanon
  189. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Europe will not have its true moral voice without the authentic voice of the Roman Catholic Church

    The Catholic church as an institution is actively working for mass immigration…the Vatican even took part in the negotiations for the UN global compact for migration, and was on the side of those countries which want to make migration a human right.
    Traditionalist Catholics are getting rather tiresome in their complete refusal to acknowledge this reality. If their only goal is to recreate some quasi-theocracy with the Catholic Church as a socially dominant force, where atheists have to shut up and homos get shoved back into the closet, why should secular right-wingers who care about the immigration issue above all feel any sympathy for that? There’s not really a basis for finding common ground here.

    And hell, all that business about “the Catholic church as the authentic moral voice of Europe” is also totally deluded. That ship sailed back in the 16th century, the Middle Ages aren’t coming back, get used to it.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @dfordoom
  190. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    Catholic religion. Or Christian religion. Or any religion.

    Forget about the church.

    And of course the 16th century is coming back. We’re just now in the decadent Hellenistic age. That always passes.

    • Replies: @Adam
  191. AP says:
    @Thulean Friend

    What I mock is his laughable claim that if it wasn’t for Catholicism, then Europe would be Africa.

    Prior to Christianity, northern Europe wasn’t too far removed from Africa. Romans saw it that way.

    • Agree: AaronB
  192. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Matt Forney

    The smart phone did not ruin game. Maybe your hexagon like face and being 100 pounds over weight did that and you are blaming the internet for making things hard for you.

    • LOL: utu, Yevardian
  193. @notanon

    You might be referring to this. One of the best examples of planning, logistics and sheer spirit in EVE combat, and one reason I dismiss the notion of video games as some sort of decadent dross. Certainly many treat it as such, but it isn’t so for many and it isn’t so for me.

    I was not, incidentally, a fleet commander. I handled intel and analysis, which to this day taught me the notion that numbers alone can tell intentions beyond what even the intender had thought, with my greatest triumph being able to outplan an alliance over a thousand individuals that outnumbered us a bit over three to one. My obsession with metrics remains to this day.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @notanon
  194. Adam says:
    @AP

    Germanic and Celtic peoples were much more sophisticated than sub-Saharan Africans (Northern Africa was more civilized, but that’s not what most people think of when they hear ‘Africa’).

    Celts were advanced in metallurgy, and invented mail armor that Romans and others adopted. The most common Roman helmet was of Celtic make as well. Celtic craftsmanship was well known, and there are many beautiful surviving examples artifacts such as the Agris helmet. The Gauls minted coins and engaged in large scale trade with the mediterranean.

    The Germanic peoples were less advanced, but they weren’t cavemen either. They were at least semi-literate, and were capable of creating beautiful artwork as well (just google migration period art). They were competent at military strategy and equipped and led their troops in a fashion quite similar to Rome. The last pagan Germanic people, the Norse, were the most skilled navigators in the world. Their architecture was made of wood and does not survive, but some of their halls were probably quite impressive.

    Barbarian peoples were a lot more advanced than people give them credit for. The conditions for civilization on the scale of the mediterranean did not exist, but they were far from primitive or stupid. When the conditions for civilization did exist, Northwestern Europeans created the most advanced one to ever exist. So far there’s no reason to believe Africans or the vast majority of the worlds peoples are capable of the same feat.

  195. notanon says:
    @Thulean Friend

    it’s an op

    for a long time the prime divide and rule tactic aimed at youngsters was anti-christian but the alt-right punctured it.

    (oddly enough with genetics i.e. if religion is/was adaptive then there’s a perfectly good materialist explanation for religion)

    the “skeptics” (the stealth anti-christian movement) are still there but slowly bleeding out and now the divide and rule strategy aimed at the youth has changed to promoting tradcath as the *only* path – same strategy (divide and rule), different tactic.

    some of the same people are involved in it i.e. ex skeptics becoming ultra tradcath.

    nb not saying Jones is consciously part of this, just that he’s currently being heavily promoted as part of this op.

    nb not saying tradcath is bad in itself just that it’s in the process of being turned into a new divide and rule golem cos the anti-christian one fizzled out.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  196. @Thorfinnsson

    If anyone is a coward it’s me; she is quite woke to the JQ on some things, but I can’t be bothered to have a discussion about Holocaust Revisionism with her; it’s not like the Holocaust is something she even cares about.

  197. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I found his short book on architecture quite interesting.

  198. notanon says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Fact: Europe is, demographically speaking, becoming something like Africa

    welcomed by the current Pope.

    whatever the situation was in the past Christians need to accept their various churches have been fully pozzed

    so they can’t be the path home unless and until they’re fixed.

  199. @AP

    That’s not true at all. I think AK actually wrote something interesting about how even pre-literate material culture was much more advanced.

    • Replies: @AP
  200. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    So the typical story of someone who discovered the efficacy of numbers in one area and then misapplies it to all areas of life and loses the ability to see its limitations.

    The story of Western civilization in a nutshell.

    It strikes me as a sort of mind virus.

  201. notanon says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    he wrote a book saying the WASP upper middle class in America imposed integration as a way of attacking non-WASP whites.

    the problem with his theory is the upper middle class in every western nation did the same thing at the same time to their blue collar population because…

    they were seduced by Hollywood movies into believing in the multicult and the media covered up the negative consequences that followed.

    i’m not 100% anti the guy cos he says a lot of good stuff as well but people should be aware of how he is going to be used.

    forewarned is forearmed etc.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
  202. notanon says:

    apropos of nothing at all male feminists should be forced by law to wear a badge so women know to always keep the door open.

  203. Adam says:
    @AaronB

    Religion doesn’t feel real to us anymore and probably never will. It does to a minority of Christians, but the majority are in it for other reasons like the aesthetics, community, and the belief that Christian doctrine could save western civilization. Even that does not appeal to most people anymore. Paganism felt real 2000 years ago, now neo-pagans have completely lost belief in any Gods and usually anything supernatural.

    Whatever comes to fill the void will probably be some kind of quasi-philosophical, mythological system and not an organized religion. Or perhaps we simply cannot live with the knowledge that God does not exist and we will fade away.

    • Agree: German_reader
  204. AP says:
    @Adam

    Germanic and Celtic peoples were much more sophisticated than sub-Saharan Africans

    I was focused on them being savage, cannibalistic, into human sacrifice, primitvie relaive to the Romans and Greeks, etc.

    Celtic craftsmanship was well known, and there are many beautiful surviving examples artifacts such as the Agris helmet. The Gauls minted coins and engaged in large scale trade with the mediterranean.

    Africans invented iron-making independently and some of their works were quite ornate. Here’s a copper mask from 13th century Nigeria:

    16th century brass:

    Apparently their kingdoms achieved some levels of barbarian-sophistication. They weren’t just naked people running around the jungle. Celts and Germanics were more sophisticated in some areas but they were also less isolated (Celts less isolated than Germanics).

    Romans wrote of northern barbarians as Europeans wrote of Africans, and I wouldn’t second-guess the Roman eyewitnesses.

    • Replies: @Adam
    , @Epigon
  205. AP says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    Perhaps, but relative to civilization there probably weren’t huge differences between northern European savages, sub-Saharans, and North American Indians. I suspect northern European relative advancement may have had to do with some diffused contact with the Classical world (which would explain why Celts were more sophisticated than Germanics).

    • Replies: @German_reader
  206. notanon says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    yes – not sure it’s the same video as i only watched it once and a long time ago but it sounds like the same guy.

    that tone of voice is responsible for a lot of history.

    I dismiss the notion of video games as some sort of decadent dross

    yes i think a lot of people are a little out of date on the multiplayer aspect of modern games and see vidya as solely a lone anti-social activity and don’t get a new form of homo onlinicus is in the process of being created.

    (and some types of solo game will also turn out to be culturally significant imo – especially the historical and space ones)

    the only problem i have with it is lack of sunlight / vitamin D so hopefully someone will invent glass roofs which can be regulated to allow the right bandwidths of light to pass through.

    I handled intel and analysis, which to this day taught me the notion that numbers alone can tell intentions beyond what even the intender had thought

    yes – if i was in charge i’d quietly subsidize games like Eve for stealth recruitment purposes.

  207. AP says:
    @Adam

    Religion doesn’t feel real to us anymore and probably never will. It does to a minority of Christians

    I dunno, I don’t get that sense from other church-goers. Many of us have had spiritual experiences.

  208. @AP

    That’s a bit of a pointless discussion though, because this EMJ didn’t write “Northern Europe”, he wrote “Europe”.
    And whatever one thinks of certain aspects of Roman culture like gladiatorial games, there can be no doubt that the pre-Christian Roman empire which encompassed much of Europe was an advanced civilization whose legacy in law, literature and technology was of monumental importance to subsequent European history.
    It’s one thing to point out the undoubted role of Christianity in shaping European civilization. It’s quite another to claim there would be no civilization at all without Christianity. The latter is quite simply false.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    , @AP
  209. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Karlin’s blog reminds me of a conversation with intelligent people of different backgrounds in which one can learn some things, it is isn’t merely gaming and it’s better than watching TV. AK deserves a lot of credit for hosting it.

    But spending more than an hour or two a day on it or choosing it over real-life activities would probably not be healthy.

  210. @German_reader

    When I have seen him say things like that before, he was talking about the role of Benedictine monks in civilising Germany. While I think that German development would have happened anyway, the advancement of civilisation into Germany was essentially simultaneous with conversion to Christianity.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  211. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Wow, an Indian calling someone else a shitskin.

    I bet your skin is darker than most black people in America but you must be one of those high caste Indians who thinks they are some kind Aryan lol.

  212. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thulean Friend

    A traditional American society would not ally itself with Hindoos who haven’t mastered basic hygiene yet.

  213. AP says:
    @German_reader

    I took him to mean Northern Europe, of course what he said wouldn’t apply to the Classical world and I doubt he would imply that it did because there is no way he would be unaware of pre-Christian Rome’s existence.

    However I suspect without Christianity even if Rome didn’t fall to the barbarians to would have muddled along technologically, and would have been like China. No 20th century moonshot.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  214. @Kent Nationalist

    When I have seen him say things like that before, he was talking about the role of Benedictine monks in civilising Germany.

    Well, that’s certainly true to some extent, and I won’t deny that the pre-Christian culture of the ancient Germanic peoples was quite primitive in some ways, and also violent (blood feud etc.).
    However, I still think it’s misguided to reduce all of European civilization merely to Christianity.

    • Replies: @Adam
  215. Adam says:
    @AP

    The number of African metal artifacts is very small relative even to northern Europe, and they are in simple materials like copper and brass. The artifacts you linked are not unimpressive, but they simply do not compare to Scythian or Celtic metalworking that were produced over a thousand years earlier.

    Africans have been exposed to civilization for a pretty significant time, first Arab Islamic civilization, and then European Christian civilization. Yet they still seem able to maintain only a low level of civilization even after conversion.

    • Replies: @AP
  216. notanon says:
    @Adam

    Religion doesn’t feel real to us anymore and probably never will.

    not sure that’s true.

    whether religion is true or not it was clearly adaptive for a long time and the end result is three groups:
    – people who are naturally religious and accept it
    – people who are naturally religious but suppress it due to cultural pressure
    – people who simply don’t have the God gene

    i think you’re right about the third group but even among them if they come to realize that at a minimum religion can be used to benefit the left-side of the Bell curve their hostility will subside.

    but i think the middle group is the largest and most significant.

  217. AP says:
    @Adam

    The number of African metal artifacts is very small relative even to northern Europe, and they are in simple materials like copper and brass. The artifacts you linked are not unimpressive, but they simply do not compare to Scythian or Celtic metalworking that were produced over a thousand years earlier.

    Agreed, though the jungle may make it harder to preserve artifacts.

    Africans have been exposed to civilization for a pretty significant time, first Arab Islamic civilization, and then European Christian civilization. Yet they still seem able to maintain only a low level of civilization even after conversion.

    Arabs themselves were civilization-killers, and the Sahara was probably a bigger obstacle than were the Alps (plus Gaul was a Roman province so in the case of the Germanics, it was just some rivers and forts).

    Africa was only Christianized 150 years ago, it’s like barbarian Europe in 400-450 AD. But so many other factors are in play – it encounters a much more civilized civilization, on the other hand it experiences a huge drain of smarter people coming to the West. This harms not only the West but also Africa itself – those brighter people could be advancing their own continent; imagine if every other bright Germanic moved to Byzantium from the 4th century.

    • Replies: @Adam
  218. Adam says:
    @German_reader

    The decline of blood feuds had more to do with the growth of a centralized power able to administer the law rather than Christianity, though there was an indirect correlation (centralized kingdoms needed to secure relations with their more advanced neighbors and thus converted to Christianity).

    Medieval Europe was still incredibly brutal, Christian or not. Louis VII burned hundreds of people alive in a church as part of a dispute with the Church over land (he would later become a crusader). In the sack of Beziers, not only were the ‘heretic’ women and children massacred, but even Catholic clergy and laity were not spared in their own churches, a fact the pope was indifferent to. William the Conqueror massacred many thousands in putting down rebellion, and his ‘penance’ was the donation of money to build an abbey. Such examples are nearly endless.

    If anything the Pax Romana under Pagan Rome was far more civilized and peaceful than Christian Europe, though the Church can at least be praised for putting an end to gladiatorial combat, and there were some genuine though largely unsuccessful attempts by the Church to end violence (truce of God).

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  219. @Adam

    Medieval Europe was still incredibly brutal, Christian or not. Louis VII burned hundreds of people alive in a church as part of a dispute with the Church over land (he would later become a crusader). In the sack of Beziers, not only were the ‘heretic’ women and children massacred, but even Catholic clergy and laity were not spared in their own churches, a fact the pope was indifferent to. William the Conqueror massacred many thousands in putting down rebellion, and his ‘penance’ was the donation of money to build an abbey. Such examples are nearly endless.

    That is a huge overstatement; you have naturally chosen exceptional examples, especially the treatment of the Cathars. Armies were for the most part too small to do very much damage before around 1200.

    • Replies: @Adam
    , @German_reader
  220. Adam says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    The treatment of Cathars was admittedly exceptional, but the other two were not. The fact that those events are mere footnotes in history and that neither king has any particular reputation for brutality is a testament to that. Even Beziers was not that exceptional, a massacre nearly always followed the assault of a city, though to be sure most sieges ended in negotiation and not assault.

    The low level, raiding and skirmishing style of warfare endemic in the middle ages would have certainly involved a level of brutalization of the civilian population. The best way to hurt your enemy was to deprive them of an income, which in those days was serf labor. And there is always the natural human desire to rape and steal.

    I’m not saying that medieval Europe was characterized just by violence, for one certain areas like England were significantly safer and more peaceful, but nor were pagan societies universally violent and it’s naive to think that the Church was associated with a general reduction of violence, other factors were responsible.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  221. fnn says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    It’s not about the Holocaust, it’s about Germany during the “phony war” period of early WW2.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  222. @Kent Nationalist

    Armies were for the most part too small to do very much damage before around 1200

    It’s not necessarily even about armies, there was lots of “private” violence in the Middle ages, e.g. robber lords preying on travellers, feuds between nobles etc. “Adam” is right about the connection between the breakdown of central power and the spread of such endemic low-level violence, e.g. after the early-10th century decline of royal power in France there were lots of quasi-independent castellans, petty tyrants fighting each other and terrorizing the rest of the population. It took centuries for a reconsolidated royal power to subject them.
    The general violence often included ecclesiastics btw, there are amusing stories about fist fights between bishops over order of rank at the table and similar issues. And in Germany at least bishops eventually became princes as well and sometimes even led military campaigns themselves.

  223. @Adam

    Very good posts by you, I agree with your points.

  224. @fnn

    It was before this book, when it was one by the chemical engineer

  225. Adam says:
    @AP

    Arabs themselves were civilization-killers, and the Sahara was probably a bigger obstacle than were the Alps (plus Gaul was a Roman province so in the case of the Germanics, it was just some rivers and forts).

    Arabs were associated with a decline in civilization in Persia and some other areas, but they can hardly universally be called ‘civilization killers’. Medieval Islamic civilization was fairly advanced, with a literate class of scholars and priests, impressive stone architecture, and developed metalworking and other industries. Arab influence was associated with an advance of civilization in West Africa, and the richest and most advanced societies in Africa today after the collapse of Apartheid are Arab Muslim states in North Africa.

    You’re correct that the isolation of Sub-Saharan Africans from mediterranean civilization has contributed to their relative backwardness. The most advanced historical sub-Saharan civilizations were Nubia and Ethiopia, and both were able to maintain some connection to the north. Conversely, the Balto-Slavs were historically the least advanced Europeans, and were also the most isolated.

    However, it’s unlikely that this is the sole explanation. White Americans have been completely unable to uplift black Americans despite trillions of dollars and many decades of effort. In many respects, negative progress has been made since the civil rights era. The end of colonialism has been associated with a decline of civilization in Africa. There are very likely genetic aspects at play here. I’ll believe that Africans are capable of high civilization when I see it.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  226. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm

    How would you know what it’s like to bed at women?

    You are a Hindoo with an arranged marriage and your wife only married you to avoid using cow dung for fuel in India.

  227. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    The dominant impression most people will get when looking at Unz review is that it’s basically a nutty conspiracy theory site, with strong emphasis on antisemitism and WW2 revisionism.

    This is an apt description, but he does publish those lefty/Marxist/hate America pieces as a distraction.

  228. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Guys who try to become “Alpha” in everything, even mundane things like picking a restaurant, are really beats trying to act like an Alpha.

    Thorfineson has read to much the mansphere without really internalizing many of the deepest tenants.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  229. EldnahYm says:
    @AP

    You’re wrong. In terms of metallurgy, shipbuilding, home construction, the plow, the wheel, domesticated animals, and just about anything you want to name, northern Europe was far more advanced than sub-Saharan Africa.

    It’s typical for papists to be Mediterranean boot lickers but this is taking it way too far. You’re mouthing Afrocentrist talking points.

    Your theory of Northern Europeans having an advantage over sub-Saharan Africans because they were more connected to the Mediterranean would predict Sudan to be a technological and cultural powerhouse, which it never was.

    Northern Europeans benefitting from more advanced Mediterranean technologies also pre-dates Christianity, it was as true in Pagan times as it was in Christian. The majority of sub-Saharan Africa had no metallurgy, no literacy, no domestic animals other than dogs and cattle(which Middle Easterners brought), no ocean based trade, had living arrangements that were closer to paleolithic Europeans, and were either extremely primitive agriculturalists or hunter gatherers prior to European contact.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  230. @Adam

    Their architecture was made of wood and does not survive, but some of their halls were probably quite impressive.

    I found this on r/askhistorians:

  231. Epigon says:
    @AP

    Romans themselves were savage far beyond anything the Persians inflicted upon the Greeks or commom during that timeline.

    During various Roman wars and rebellion-quellings in Greece, they would exterminate entire towns down to bisecting every single animal, leaving nothing alive.

    You look at tribal cultures and their sacrifices as primitive – what can be said of massive amphiteatrical bloodbaths, pointless slaughter of thousands of animals imported from distant lands, displays of sadism that sparked several massive rebellions and slave uprisings, executions of tens of thousands of slaves along the roads on several occasions?

    The treatment of Molossians in Epirus (150 000 sold to slavery), Carthage (Third war was antiquity version of false flag/pre-emptive), Corinth, Caesars genocide in Gaul etc. let alone their other savage acts have long since made me a detractor of Romans and Roman civilization.
    For all their military conquests and achievements, they never invented anything (aqueducts, torsion catapults, crossbows, mail, urbanism, mail service, military professionalism were adopted from others, not developed), mathematics, physics and science stagnated and their “native” culture and architecture is an Etrusco-Hellenic mix, down to origin myth inserted into Hellenic oral history.

    In addition, their depravity and foolishness, avarice actually hollowed them from within at an alarming speed. I remember the day back in High School when I presented work on how the failure of agrarian reform (Gracchi) paved the way for future Marius’ reforms, oligarchic power based on extensive latifundias and ultracheap slave spoils of war, decadence and more obviously, civil wars. The fact that far more Roman citizens and inhabitants of Roman state were killed in many civil wars than by foreigners is telling.

    Just remember that pre-disbandment Augustan military juggernaught had something like 50 legions (200-250 000 legionnaires) many veterans of civil and foreign wars, and likely the same number of auxilia. Literally nothing could pose a threat to Rome, all high civilizations were defeated and conquered, leaving African, Parni and Beduin nomads, Briton, Balkan and Germanic tribals as neighbours.

    But the societal rot was already there, native Romans were dying out, soon to be followed by Italics turned Romans, the traditional ways were gone and the plentiful supply of slaves from conquests of populous urbanized cultures was no more. Intrigues, corruption, plots, civil wars eroded the state, non-Romans rose to Imperial power assimilated Balkanites became the most important soldiers and emperors. The Western Roman Empire the “barbarians” toppled was often indistinguishable from “barbarians”.

    • Agree: Adam, dfordoom
    • Replies: @utu
    , @AP
    , @neutral
  232. EldnahYm says:
    @AP

    The Romans were not great scientists or inventors, pre or post Christianity.

  233. EldnahYm says:
    @Anonymous

    Many women do in fact hate it when men are passive and like it when they plan things ahead or outright lead them. Thorfinnsson is giving good advice on this matter.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • LOL: AaronB
  234. WHAT says:

    Looks like TDS got hit again, certificate errors on various VPNs.

    Or maybe it’s weev the snitch web madskillz in action.

  235. utu says:
    @Epigon

    The fact that far more Roman citizens and inhabitants of Roman state were killed in many civil wars than by foreigners is telling.

    Some estimate that the death toll resulting from Roman wars for all involved parties was around 6 millions.

  236. Dmitry says:
    @szopen

    Humans are not wolf packs. “Womanizing” and “casanovas”, is not related to topic of “alphas” (people who have leadership).

    Casanovas are more a product of personality problems and social parasitism, which is the darker side of many people who are too good looking and charming.

    I have longtime friend (since school) who has a very bad casanova personality, and is sleeping with a different girl all the time, and boasts when he sleeping with more than one girl at the same time, and they will think he loves them, even though he repeats the same romance over and over with different girls.

    Superficially he is a very kind and charming person, and is making friends with random old people, and will talk charmingly to your parents until they wish he was their son instead of you.

    On the other hand, he is very flat personality and his mind is more like a woman than most men (he has no strong views on any topics). He is very dependent and if he wants to watch YouTube videos he needs to invite people to his apartment to watch boring YouTube videos with him.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  237. Epigon says:
    @Dmitry

    Women are uninteresting, boring company.
    It was a total letdown for me when the supposedly intellectual, high achieving women were vapid shallow drones with normie opinions, tastes, behaviors; except with a medal/achievement/degree/position.

    Wanting to socialize and spend significant time with multiple run-of-the-mill modern women day after day must be a sign of mental illness. It takes a lot of willpower and stamina to text, talk to all these thots in parallel, not to mention good memory and concentration not to mix up their boring stories and details. I suck at it, probably never even bothered – but some buddies of mine excel at it.

    I’ve met a total of THREE women who are genuinely interesting, have brilliant minds and are woke on many things, not specifically the politics/race/HBD but life, common topics etc. The catch is that they are Machiavellian characters who’ve min-maxed everything, have “male” character and are not really feminine in the true sense.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  238. AP says:
    @Epigon

    Excellent post, you are correct, and Christianity did much to mitigate this cruelty. Yet Romans were much more civilized, and in their writings did regard the northern barbarians much as Europeans regarded Africans.

  239. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AaronB

    I don’t think its useful to analyze leadership at this level of specificity. It is perfectly OK to let women make some of the decisions. You don’t literally have to decide everything.

    I think the point Thorfinnsson was making was that women respect men who are capable of making decisions. Not being able to make up your mind which restaurant you want to go to can be a symptom of indecisiveness, which women despise. If you’re decisive about most things then a woman will regard your inability to pick a restaurant as an amusing quirk. If you’re indecisive about most things she will see it as further evidence that you’re a loser.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Daniel Chieh
    , @AaronB
  240. Dmitry says:
    @Epigon

    THREE women who are genuinely interesting, have brilliant minds

    Lol. I have been to a date with a “crazy genius woman”, only once in my life. If I recall, we were in the cafe, and she was talking about science and some other weird topics, and I was interested in what she was saying, so just listening to her.

    Anyway she never wanted to meet me again and didn’t answer my messages to her – probably thought I am an idiot.

  241. Dmitry says:
    @dfordoom

    If a woman likes you, there will seem a thousand and one different ways you can charm her. On the other hand, if a woman doesn’t like you – maybe she will dislike the fact you did not choose the restaurant.

  242. @Diversity Heretic

    If you’re a beta male, just get a sex doll. Unless you’re in the genetic top 20% of men, relationships with women in the current year utterly fail a cost-benefit analysis.

  243. dfordoom says: • Website
    @German_reader

    The Catholic church as an institution is actively working for mass immigration…

    As are pretty much all churches in the West. At this point in time Christianity is more of an enemy than a friend.

    And the Catholic Church will cave in on feminism and moral issues, just as other churches have done. The current pope is laying the groundwork for that surrender right now.

  244. dfordoom says: • Website
    @notanon

    cos the anti-christian one fizzled out.

    It did? In which alternate universe did this happen?

    • Replies: @notanon
  245. Yevardian says:
    @Adam

    Arabs were associated with a decline in civilization in Persia and some other areas, but they can hardly universally be called ‘civilization killers’. Medieval Islamic civilization was fairly advanced, with a literate class of scholars and priests, impressive stone architecture, and developed metalworking and other industries.

    Practically all of those scholars, priests, historians and architects were Syriacs, Copts, Persians and other non-Arab groups. And the ones with Arab names were just particularly zealous ‘converts’.

    The Islamic world had begun steeply declining once the cultural legacy of Byzantium and Persia was tapped out and most of the Dhimmi had converted. Only the mass migration of Turks, followed by the conquest of Anatolia allowed Islamic expansion to continue on the backs of Greeks, Armenians and Balkan peoples.
    Arabs proper have contributed almost nothing whatsoever to civilisation.

    • Replies: @Adam
  246. Adam says:
    @Yevardian

    Practically all of those scholars, priests, historians and architects were Syriacs, Copts, Persians and other non-Arab groups. And the ones with Arab names were just particularly zealous ‘converts’.

    By ‘Arabs’ I meant people who adopted the Arabic language and Islam. I don’t disagree that the injection of non-Arab blood drove Islamic civilization. After all, ‘real’ Arabs were quite primitive tribal people who were vastly outnumbered by those they ruled over.

    The Islamic world had begun steeply declining once the cultural legacy of Byzantium and Persia was tapped out, and only the mass migration of Turks, followed by the conquest of Anatolia allowed Islamic expansion to continue on the backs of Greeks, Armenians and Balkan peoples.

    Agreed, but there were probably other factors like the Mongol invasions and the effects of cousin marriage (whether cousin marriage increased under generations of Arab rule is impossible to say, but it would have certainly depressed IQ).

    Regardless, the point was that Islamic civilization was far more advanced than anything in sub-saharan Africa.

    According to Ibn Khaldoun: ” The Negro nations are, as a rule, submissive to slavery because they have little that is (essentially) human and possess attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated”.

    His attitude was typical among the Arabs, and their feeling of superiority was not unfounded.

  247. @dfordoom

    Its actually much more simple than that and isn’t limited to women, though it applies significantly to women. It has a lot to do with the fact that people tend to be fairly neurotic and concerned with being responsible for making an incorrect choice; women in that sense are relatively more neurotic and there’s a surprising amount of psychic pain associated in decisionmaking from the presumed penalty of making a “wrong decision.”

    Its ultimately no different from any other group of people who often find themselves milling around a seemingly silly decision-point; in that case, being decisive and taking ownership(and thus, the penalties of being “wrong”) serves to lead, yes, but also serves to relieve pressure from others. Leadership is, in fact, a service.

    Implicit in it, of course, is not being horribly wrong.

  248. @AP

    Prior to Christianity, northern Europe wasn’t too far removed from Africa. Romans saw it that way.

    Were Romans Christians during their bloom period? See, this is what I was mocking with Jones’ bizarre statement that without Catholicism “EUROPE LITERALLY AFRICA”. It’s just a stupid statement that is completely ahistorical.

    A lot of people have re-interpreted this to mean that I am somehow completely against Christianity in all situations, which is a bad misreading on their part. I’m merely mocking the underlying assumption that belief trumps race in such a radical way. It’s a right-wing interpretation of tabula rasa.

  249. notanon says:
    @dfordoom

    i only follow what’s happening among the under 25s (ish).

  250. @EldnahYm

    Based and redpilled. Also his invocation of the Romans as the arbiters of who is civilised and not when these people were pagan for almost all of their bloom period is an implicit admission that the argument that Jones is pushing is fraudalent. The fact that these people were ethnically European is of course also no accident.

    But to re-iterate, I actually like Christian conservatives on many social issues and see no problem allying with them. They just have to be reminded that race-blind doctrine in Christianity is a total fraud and has to be destroyed. Otherwise you end up making silly statements like Jones did.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  251. @Mr. Hack

    The people who struggle to fill their identity void, often after misspending their youths in hedonism (certainly true in Augustine’s case), tend to become firebrands for fringe ideologies.

    Roosh looks like he has followed on this path, as the child of mixed Armenian/Persian immigrants who grew up in a country where he doesn’t really belong.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  252. @Adam

    UFOs and aliens feel real to many people, that’s a new religion that resembles pagan cults, but it doesn’t feel like religion to people because it’s a new cult that’s created out of a mythologization of today’s scientific advances and speculations. NASA can make spaceships so science has given its credibility to the idea and then you can just fantasize further.

    That’s the way it always worked. Christianity didn’t feel like a religion to people when it was new. Astrology was perhaps the most respected “science” of its day and baby Jesus was said to have been visited by the three wise men who saw his coming in the stars. Early Christians didn’t believe that they were starting a religion with strange beliefs outside of normal knowledge of the day, they wanted a belief system aligned with that day’s equivalent of science.

    By the time people are widely conscious that an idea is “supernatural” or “religious” it’s either very new or on its way out, that it’s either newly invented and at odds with “standard” knowledge or that it’s an old tradition that was left behind by the evolution of “standard” knowledge. That doesn’t mean that belief in such things is ever going to go away and most modern people believe all sorts of things that will be considered primitive superstition by future people.

    People in the year 5000 will look back at our time and the ancients and see no difference between the communist personality cults sanctified by the dialectic of history and God-kings sanctified by their star charts. And that’s easy to say because communism is dead – it’s harder to say what parts of modern Western belief will look primitive in the future (where people will be blinded by some future belief system into believing that they’re the final, rational people unlike all those generations that came before them…).

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @AP
    , @AaronB
  253. @Jaakko Raipala

    HBD-denialism, human rights, vegetarianism/veganism, and much of environmentalism all immediately spring to mind as religious nonsense.

  254. AaronB says:
    @dfordoom

    There is something called distinguishing the trivial from the significant, and looking at the total picture rather than analyzing a sliver of it.

    Yes, if a man is vacilating and unsteady on important matters, and chronically cannot make up his mind when it matters, that is obviously weak.

    PUAs, however, who lack discernment, recommend such things as controlling the remote controller for the TV at all times, and never not having restaurant preferences – an autistic person who does not understand the nuances of social interaction but has heard that “leadership” means being “decisive”, is going to think in this robotic way.

    And you say “being unable to make up his mind” – “I say not giving a shot about what to eat”.

    I think men need to stop trembling in fear of women judging them , the way PUA wants them to – it’s disgusting. If you don’t give a shit about what to watch or what to eat, don’t tremble in fear of what she’lltl think of you lol you pathetic PUA manlet (don’t mean you, doom, just illustrating my point)

    And yes, cultivate decisiveness in significant life areas because that’s admirable, focus on the big picture and what’s important, distinguish the trivial from the significant, and stop living in fear and trembling that every tiny action of yours is being judged by women.

    And even, have the courage to be kind and affectionate. Stop living in fear.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  255. AP says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Early Christians didn’t believe that they were starting a religion with strange beliefs outside of normal knowledge of the day, they wanted a belief system aligned with that day’s equivalent of science.

    Excellent comment as always, but the Resurrection was viewed as bizarre at the time, and obviously the idea of God as having been humiliated and crucified upended pagan beliefs.

    Orthodox theologian Hart rites about this well:

  256. Mr. Hack says:
    @advancedatheist

    You’ve tried to answer a question that I did not pose to you?

    But the process still results in individuals who clearly lack something that people with organic, authentic identities enjoy

    .
    Which is?…

  257. neutral says:
    @Epigon

    I do agree that the Romans were savage and the Roman empire was nothing but a stagnant monstrosity, which is probably why the cucks/neocons/neoliberals are so attracted to the Roman empire as a concept.

    I have to point out however that Augustus sent legions into Germania and failed, and I don’t think that they simply gave up because they deemed Germania as an irrelevance. They had truly met their match in a superior race (Aryans over Latins) and that the doom of Rome was inevitable, while Germania could never be conquered.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Epigon
  258. @Thorfinnsson

    Not a coincidence that all of those (barring HBD-denialism, too icky and scientific) are things that mostly women care about

  259. AaronB says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Great comment.

    This is why I find it so silly when anyone suggests they are rational and objective. All of us without exception have subjective biases which we generally cannot see, and it is better to admit this and even embrace it. Whatever we think is “objective” is merely what we personally desire to be true.

    The pose of rational objectivity was one of the sillier self-deceptions that arose in Europe after the 18th century, and was obviously itself just a subjective bias.

    Today it is a rhetorical mask generally indicating cuckishness – i.e, a subjective bias against oneself, reverse egoism. Anyone who claims to be rationally objective as his main identity reliably reveals himself at some point to have some kind of subjective bias against himself.

    Of course, facts and logic do play an important role in thinking, but an entirely negative one never a motivating one – as constraints that keep us within bounds merely.

  260. Mitleser says:
    @neutral

    I have to point out however that Augustus sent legions into Germania and failed, and I don’t think that they simply gave up because they deemed Germania as an irrelevance.

    That is what happened, though.
    Germania was cold (by Med standards) and underdeveloped, unlike Mesopotamia where they actually met real Aryans and their expansion was stopped.

  261. Epigon says:
    @neutral

    Romans made sure to exact their vengeance, and the famous agnomen Germanicus was first applied to a father and son who successfully waged a systematic war against Germanic tribes, with son being in charge of punitive expedition in the Teutoburg battle aftermath.

    You can imagine what would a punitive campaign of an empire at the height of its power look like.

    The catch is that once you exterminate and enslave everyone who didn’t flee in time in the Germanic tribal area, there was nothing to rule over except a damp, cold giant forest, far from culture, civilization and trade routes. There was nothing to administer, no cities, nothing to mine (Iberia, Illyria, Moesia, Noricum, Dacia had abundant mineral wealth) – the expenses involved in occupying, settling and defending the area couldn’t be rationalized, so the area was abandoned.

    On the topic of superior Aryans vs Meds, I recommend looking at how Teutons, Cimbri, Ambrones and Suebi under Ariovistus fared when faced with Roman Republican armies. War is not won by superior individuals, but by superior collectives – Rome had reached the stage where they fought on an almost industrial war level – state foundries and smithies supplying the armed forces, supply depots, recruits trained and drilled en masse etc.

    • Agree: AaronB, utu, Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  262. AaronB says:
    @Adam

    For the Hellenistic Greeks, religion also stopped feeling real, and rationality was increasingly the order of the day. That didn’t last long, because rationality alone is fundamentally untrue to reality.

    Like the Hellenistic Greeks, we are seeing the rise of quasi mythological philosophical cults, like HBD and technology worship, that obviously will not have a lot of staying power.

    Or perhaps we simply cannot live with the knowledge that God does not exist and we will fade away.

    This is fundamentally bad epistemology, and it is remarkable that a century and a half after Kant people are still saying things like this.

    We are beings who see the world through a glass darkly – we can never know true reality. Our only criterion for reality is based on experience. We are like dogs sniffing our way through the world.

    If loss of belief in God – some unknowable larger reality that we intuit – leads to our demise, then we have made a fundamental miscalculation.

    In reality, we are all part of a death pact – a secret agreement to see the world only through logic and senses. There is no reason to do so expect that it worked for a while. It was entirely pragmatic – science was the rise of pragmatism over metaphysics.

    We have now left behind the pragmatism of science and returned to metaphysics – we say we know the “thing in itself”, and it is merely material and senseless. This is metaphysics – just one that obviously leads to death, and thus less true than any previous metaphysics.

    In reality, there is a great scientific stagnation going on, and some sort of collapse is likely on the horizon – when that happens, the metaphysics of materialism will be discredited, as it no longer produces pragmatic results.

    And religion will return on full force.

    • Replies: @utu
  263. The new Right seems to have peaked in Europe. Greens/Lib Dems added 60 seats in the European Parliament. Europe of Nations and Freedom despite much fanfare managed 58 extra seats.

    In the UK, the two WTO (Hard Brexit) parties had 35% of the vote almost all going to The Brexit Party while the 5 Remain parties had 40% of the vote excluding Northern Ireland (mostly Remain). The traditional two parties tried to sit in the middle and managed 25% between them. The trend to the right is over. There is a trend to the green left that still hasn’t topped out.

  264. @Philip Owen

    The trend to the right is over. There is a trend to the green left that still hasn’t topped out.

    Superficial analysis imo, since there are vast differences between European countries.
    If I understand correctly, the right-wing parties in Italy (Lega, Forza Italia, Fratelli d’Italia), a key country, got about 50% in the EU elections, whereas Greens are pretty much non-existent in Italy.
    And in Germany, unfortunately the centre of the Green disease, there was once again pronounced East-West polarization, with AfD being the strongest or 2nd strongest party in eastern states.
    Polarization will increase imo, both within European countries and between different states. The identity issue isn’t going away.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  265. @German_reader

    In Denmark the social democrats have now also embraced “extreme” immigration restriction, which led to electoral success. I am sure some social democrats outside of Denmark have taken note of this.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  266. @Thorfinnsson

    the social democrats have now also embraced “extreme” immigration restriction, which led to electoral success.

    Question though is if they will stay true to their promises, especially in a coalition government with other left-wing parties still pushing for open borderism.
    But yes, it may well come to a discussion among Social democrats whether a more restrictive attitude to immigration might not be appropriate. In Germany, former SPD leader Sigmar Gabriel (who once called right-wing demonstrators “rabble”) has recently made statements of this kind:
    https://sezession.de/61210/sigmar-gabriels-flirt-mit-dem-rechtsruck
    Apparently it has belatedly dawned on him that the traditional Social Democrat voters might not be that keen on mass immigration, while the bourgeois open borders enthusiasts will vote for the Greens anyway.

  267. notanon says:
    @Philip Owen

    The new Right seems to have peaked in Europe. Greens/Lib Dems added 60 seats in the European Parliament. Europe of Nations and Freedom despite much fanfare managed 58 extra seats.

    the center is collapsing cos total failure of neoliberal economics and a resulting drift to both far-right and far-left

    back to 1930s/weimar

    again

    cos banking mafia

    again.

  268. utu says:
    @AaronB

    Let me add in defense of “logic and senses”. It is logic and senses that guided Galileo, Descartes, Hume and Kant to find the limits of “logic and senses”. The limits do not necessitate making proclamation on the existence of the supernatural but they justify the proclamation that “the supernatural does not ext” is not necessitated.

    The new atheists like Dawkins, Hitchens or Harris who at the same time seem to be compelled to make proclamations that free will does not exist are the ones who violate what “logic and senses” allows us to say about the world. One could study their cases as that of the demonically possessed because what else made them to cross the epistemic abyss that their “logic and senses” do not permit to make.

    You are right about the epistemological mistakes people make but you are not correct to make your attack against the “logic and senses” which you often do. Your arguments are then nihilistic and one gets impression that you are not trying to help but rather you are guided by an impulse to destroy. The “logic and senses” which never were in contradiction to Christianity is the foundation of Western Civilization. If we want to keep that Civilization alive we may not permit your mumbo jumbo as an alleged cure to “demonically possessed” Dawkinses.

    • Agree: AP, Mr. Hack, Dreadilk
    • Replies: @AaronB
  269. @Philip Owen

    It’s natural that the Lib Dems did better, since Remainers were much more mobilised during this election. I don’t think that dynamic is applicable to the other countries. I think the Green thing is a fad; there is no way that the level of Thunberg hysteria can keep up in another four years.

  270. AaronB says:
    @utu

    I am not against logic and senses – I think they are extremely important. I sometimes don’t make this clear because I am fighting against a culture that is trying to say that is all there is.

    When someone says that we know God doesn’t exist because our senses and logic don’t reveal him (which is debatable), then I have to show such a person that it has been demonstrated beyond any doubt, by both science and philosophy, that neither our senses nor our logic are complete and accurate representations of reality – and that they can never be. And to take them as such is a metaphysical choice that goes well beyond the pragmatism of true science.

    In a sense, I am trying to restore logic to its correct role – a critique, in the tradition of European philosophy.

    But if someone were to tell me that he knew exactly what God was in all his attributes because his intuition and imagination told him so, or that God told him to go murder someone, I would equally tell such a person that he is going well beyond what he can reasonably know and that he is being irrational.

    The way I see it, logic is very important as a negative constraint – but all the most important things are beyond logic. So we start off with our passions and desires, with our intuitions and imagination, but it’s very important to see what logic says, and what our senses say.

    Logic has nothing to analysis if imagination and intuition don’t provide the material – it is a dance between the two. On its own, logic is sterile. And on its own, imagination is wild.

    But that logic often vindicate ideas that come through the imagination demonstrate beyond doubt that imagination is a portal for truth.

    But if someone adopts the rhetorical pose of being motivated by a “disinterested desire for truth” – I laugh at him. Or worse, if he is sincere, I understand he is a cuck.

    I think this position is balanced and in line with European civilization before it completely went off the rails after the Enlightenment.

  271. @Kent Nationalist

    I think the Green thing is a fad

    In Germany it’s more than a fad. I’m seriously afraid that after Merkel Germany will be governed by a Greens-Christian Democrats coalition, possibly even led by a Green chancellor. Such a government would have little support from the eastern states though and would deepen polarization.

  272. neutral says:
    @Philip Owen

    You suffer from the delusion that if the hard left win 50.01% of the vote then they can simply pass laws at will and everyone will obey them. Ultra extremist left wingers winning votes is exactly what is desired, the cucks will no longer be able to remain the cowards they are.

    When order breaks down and violence is the way to gain power, are you going to place your money on your blue haired feminist green voters to win those battles?

  273. @German_reader

    You seem to believe that suffering is a moral virtue. It is not. Being horrifically murdered in an act of random violence doesn’t absolve your own sins.

  274. @neutral

    Wishful thinking.

    The left currently has a massive advantage in political violence.

    I’m sure you’ve heard of antifas?

    • Replies: @neutral
  275. @advancedatheist

    You’re nuts. People who grew up in normal, functional families with 3+ kids have zero problems dealing with the opposite sex.

    “Premarital experience” is a poison, not the solution.

  276. neutral says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    How many people have antifa killed? If anything I wish they were more violent, because violence begets more violence.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  277. Mitleser says:
    @neutral

    You don’t need to kill people in developed countries in order to intimidate them.

  278. notanon says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    I think the Green thing is a fad

    the Green thing is interesting as they’re effectively the “far-left” in this version of the center collapsing but in the form of what is effectively a kind of SJW cult.

    i think they’ll eventually morph into full on communist economically as the only way to stay relevant as the western economies continue to crumble (or be replaced a party that is).

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  279. notanon says:
    @neutral

    are you going to place your money on your blue haired feminist green voters to win those battles?

    they imported an army to fight for them

    (in theory anyway, what will actually happen is their army will eat them first)

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
  280. Anonymous[356] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    This seems like overt brown-nosing.

  281. @notanon

    Or, perhaps what is more likely, is that they destroy us first, then turn on the retard SJWs.

    These Muslims aren’t stupid. They know who poses a real threat and who doesn’t.

    • Replies: @notanon
  282. notanon says:
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    i was assuming the situation he was envisaging was a sudden breakdown. i’m pretty sure urban SJWs are gonna be first on the menu simply for proximity reasons.

  283. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Thorfinnsson

    HBD-denialism, human rights, vegetarianism/veganism, and much of environmentalism all immediately spring to mind as religious nonsense.

    All political ideologies, whether of the left or the right, are substitute religions. That includes nationalism and HBD, and blank slatism. The growth of political ideology in the West precisely coincided with the collapse of Christianity. When Christianity collapsed people looked for alternative religions – Marxism, nationalism, fascism, environmentalism, liberalism, IQ fetishism, feminism, libertarianism, etc.

    For many people both science and atheism became alternative religions, which explains the religious zeal and bigotry of atheists, evolutionists, global warming cultists, etc.

    Whether particular scientific theories are true or not becomes irrelevant once they are turned into political ideologies/substitute religions, as has happened with evolution, HBD and climate science.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Anon
  284. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AaronB

    And you say “being unable to make up his mind” – “I say not giving a shot about what to eat”.

    The important thing is to make it clear that you’re simply indifferent rather than indecisive.

    If you asked me what restaurant I wanted to go to I’d probably say that I didn’t care as long as it wasn’t a Thai or Mexican or vegetarian restaurant. That way I’m making it clear that I can be decisive (I can’t abide Thai or Mexican or vegetarian food and I refuse to eat such muck) but that within those boundaries I’ll accept her decision.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  285. AaronB says:
    @dfordoom

    Seriously, my friend, stop thinking about this nonsense 🙂 You don’t have to constantly be worrying about what a woman thinks about you, and fine tune micro-responses based on how you will be micro-perceived.

    No real man thinks like that.

    You leave great comments and seem to have a great understanding of the problems facing the West, but I am sorry to say your great instincts are failing you here…

    I’m very surprised that you don’t see this is loser behavior….

  286. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Philip Owen

    The new Right seems to have peaked in Europe.

    Unfortunately that seems to be the case.

    I suspect that while there is widespread sympathy for nationalism and immigration restrictionism (and social conservatism) there is increasingly little support for other right-wing agendas. Right-wing economic agendas are regarded with extreme distaste.

    The push for nationalism, immigration restrictionism and social conservatism is hampered by the association of these things with the political right. Which is logical enough, since open borders, globalism and social liberalism are all fundamentally right-wing causes.

    In the UK, the two WTO (Hard Brexit) parties had 35% of the vote almost all going to The Brexit Party while the 5 Remain parties had 40% of the vote excluding Northern Ireland (mostly Remain).

    The result will unfortunately massively strengthen the case for a second referendum. I might be wrong but I’d be surprised if Leave could win a second referendum.

    There is a trend to the green left that still hasn’t topped out.

    Agreed.

    • Agree: iffen
  287. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Kent Nationalist

    I think the Green thing is a fad; there is no way that the level of Thunberg hysteria can keep up in another four years.

    Green hysteria is practically inexhaustible.

  288. dfordoom says: • Website
    @neutral

    When order breaks down and violence is the way to gain power, are you going to place your money on your blue haired feminist green voters to win those battles?

    Given that they’ll have the entire apparatus of the state, including the police and the military (and of course unlimited funding), backing them then yes I’m inclined to think they’re likely to win. In fact I’m inclined to think they’ll win very easily.

  289. dfordoom says: • Website
    @notanon

    the Green thing is interesting as they’re effectively the “far-left” in this version of the center collapsing but in the form of what is effectively a kind of SJW cult.

    i think they’ll eventually morph into full on communist economically

    No they won’t. They get immense amounts of money from bankers and billionaires. They will remain loyal to their capitalist paymasters.

    The bankers and billionaires fund the Green Left for the specific purpose of distracting attention away from economic issues.

    The real enemy is Woke Capital.

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @Mitleser
  290. notanon says:
    @dfordoom

    which is why i said

    i think they’ll eventually morph into full on communist economically as the only way to stay relevant as the western economies continue to crumble (or be replaced by a party that is).

  291. Mitleser says:
    @dfordoom

    They will only stay “loyal” if they are not their target.

    The German automotive industry did help fund the German Greens, but that did not stop them from working against said industry.

  292. Pericles says:
    @Scalper

    I love your use of ‘real Republican’. Powerful take. But what is this about Left wing “retard” when you promoted the Alt Left just a comment ago? You need to stay on message, Masked Strategos! Don’t make your dramatic heel-turn too soon.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Scalper
  293. @Philip Owen

    National elections and EU elections have always had very different results and europhile/globalist parties always scored much better in EU elections while nationalist-populists always do much better in national elections. Finland is a good example since we just had national elections within a month of the EU elections.

    The Greens scored 16.0 % in EU elections and became the second largest party (still a 4.8 % share behind the leading party) but they only scored 11.5 % in national elections and were still only the 5th largest party.

    The Finns party (nationalist-populist) scored only 13.8 % in EU elections which makes them the 4th party but they scored 17.5 % in national elections which made them the second largest party (and only a 0.2 % share behind the first party).

    Basically things are reversed between the new left (Green LBGT multiculti stuff) and the new right (nationalist euroskeptic anti-immigration), the new left does well in EU elections but struggles in national elections while the new right does well nationally but struggles in EU elections.

    (What makes me sad that our EU election winner is the ruined party of my ancestors, the originally based and redpilled monarchist party founded by the White Civil War victors to oppose democracy and communism. They’ve devolved into our equivalent of cuckservative eurofederalist tories.)

    • Replies: @Pharmakon
  294. iffen says:
    @Pericles

    Your ability to discern a “change of direction” in those meaningless word montages is damned impressive!

  295. @Epigon

    The catch is that once you exterminate and enslave everyone who didn’t flee in time in the Germanic tribal area, there was nothing to rule over except a damp, cold giant forest, far from culture, civilization and trade routes.

    Weren’t there also allied Germanic tribes akin to the allied Celtic tribes, or were they destroyed previously by the opposed Germanic tribes?

  296. Anon[125] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    Excellent comment.

  297. @Anatoly Karlin

    And I believe the Ang Lin site is even more popular than CH and Unz put together. Also very redpilled on the WQ. So the manosphere is far from dead.

  298. Dreadilk says:
    @Philip Owen

    Your entire post reads as what you really really want.

  299. Pharmakon says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    “monarchist party founded by the White Civil War victors to oppose democracy and communism”

    So how are their current convictions different from their past ones? They still oppose democracy and communism – it is just that they are now serving a higher power/crown. They’ve been elevated in status, so to speak.

  300. Pharmakon says:
    @Mr. Hack

    As every man should. The road is ridden with errors and pitfalls but, as the saying goes, this is how we learn. I wish him the best of luck.

    On a side note:

    I have a very distant relative who was way too involved with this Roosh nonsense and, as a result, his career prospects in NA got thoroughly destroyed.

    Not only that – his personal (physical) safety got compromised as well as the Antifa types have been chasing him all-over the continent. It is almost like a real-life version of Hitchcock’s “North by Northwest”.

    I admire the guy for standing up for his convictions but I still feel bitter for him wasting his social capital potential on, literally, stupid and infantile sh.t like this Roosh idiocy.

  301. Anon[161] • Disclaimer says:

    Another person could as easily say that writing comments on Karlin’s forum above age of 30 is only for losers, and that nonlosers over 30 years are using their time to fish in the local river.

    Another person ( this means me, anonymous nobody from nowhere, a world class authority about winnerdom and loserdom) would say that someone who for his whole life agonizes whether other people see him as “winner” or “loser”, is the true loser of the world, living his whole life for others.

    If this is the last reply to this thread, so be it.

  302. Scalper says:
    @Pericles

    Ahaha such a relentless, prototypical HBD faggie you are. Masked Strategos? Is that your active boyfriend bed time alter ego?

    Curiously enough, your retorts remind me of some slut I used to fuck some time ago. She used to get all snarky every time she needed a good, hard fuck. Maybe it’s time for you to get some love from the real Masked?

  303. EldnahYm says:
    @Thulean Friend

    In Protestant countries, conservative Catholics are the enemy and should be crushed. In North America, Irish Catholics and French Canadians in the case of the U.S. and Canada respectively are the groups most responsible for multiculturalism and mass immigration.

  304. @Anatoly Karlin

    If Britons cared about that they would should reconsider their naturalization procedures.

    On its face, that’s a pretty psychopathic argument. “They are too naive and/or their politics is captured by a hostile elite, so they let me screw them a little. And it’s good for me if they get screwed! So why shouldn’t I?”

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