The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersRussian Reaction Blog
31 Steps for the Ukraine
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

kiev-1905

Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky: Kiev in 1905.

I suppose that if superintelligence is developed soon, or the entire world melts together into a post-historical open borders dystopia/utopia, or some existential risk does as all in, then these considerations will become rather irrelevant.

However, if the 21st century continues on a more or less “business as usual” path, then having 200 million people (most of Ukraine + Belorussia + South Siberia) will be preferable to having 150 million due to the greater economies of scale and innovation that having more people enables.

Now to be sure, Russia can survive without the Ukraine as a declining Medium Power.

Even so, “population is power“, as a powerful commenter keeps reminding us on this very blog.

And all that is apart from the basic principle of reuniting a separated people, promoted by all Russian nationalists from Ilyin to Solzhenitsyn, and repairing the standing insult to the aesthetics of the world map represented by fake and gay countries such as Belarus and the Ukraine.

This post will discuss how to go about it.

“Winning hearts and minds,” apart from being a cuck move, is unfeasible anyway; even going so far as giving back Crimea will not restore goodwill and invite only well-deserved contempt.

Going back to giving gibsmedats (e.g. gas subsidies) would also be idiotic. Even the kremlins have realized this that you don’t buy loyalty or friendship with that, though they have yet to extend that lesson to the rest of the Sovietstans.

Russia invested $200 billion into the Ukrainian economy over 20 years, the US – $5 million into the “development of democracy.” It seems we didn’t invest correctly. An important lesson. – Alexey Pushkov, United Russia MP.

Reunification through Eurasian integration was permanently ruled out in February 2014, when a false flag-abetted coup unseated the bandit President Yanukovych and brought Maidanists to power.

Reunification through military means was ruled out – probably permanently – in May 2014, when Putin recognized Poroshenko as the legitimately elected President of the Ukraine. While certain nationalists, including on this blog, still entertain fantasies about invading the Ukraine and ruling it like a Reichskommissariat, that would be worse than just immoral – it would almost certainly fail, since it buys into the narrative that Ukrainians can only become Russians at the point of a gun. “There is no compulsion in religion”, as the Muslims say.

poll-ukraine-russia Finally, given the collapse in “Russophile” attitudes in the Ukraine after 2014, there is no scope today either for “deals” with new “partners” like Tymoshenko. Which even on the off chance that they happen will only degenerate into the usual post-sovok traditions of stealing money from some project, which always, and not undeservedly, only feeds foreign disdain for Russia.

At the same time, Russia has no obligation to tolerate the existence of a hostile anti-Russian project on its borders that furthermore has the gall to parasite on Russian history and culture on account of possessing so little of its own (see the svidomy beliefs that the Ukraine is the “true Rus” and so forth).

Consequently, the best move now would be to sabotage the svidomy entity at every possible turn.

Here are my proposals on how to do that.

First, the LDNR needs to be recognized, consolidated, and admitted into Russia as a Donbass Republic.

This will invite more Western sanctions, but that has acquired runaway dynamics anyway; meanwhile, the LDNR’s existence in their current, semi-bandit form are a sort of permanent black PR on Russia’s image that repels not just Ukrainians but all normal people – a sad fact that pretty much all Russian nationalists acknowledge.

Moreover, I suspect even Russian leftist backers of Novorossiya would agree. After the assassination of Zakharchenko, power has in the DNR has passed back to the Yanukovych clan, which will soon be formalized by the rigged election of a literal fraudster to the Presidency. Meanwhile, prominent Russian leftist writer and Novorossiya supporter Zakhar Prilepin has had his battalion disbanded. This is assuredly not what people such as National Bolsheviks who went to the Donbass fought for.

Finally, there is also the principle that Russia’s most loyal supporters – people who themselves identify as Russian – should not have to suffer indefinitely in legal limbo for their choices.

Second, the Ukraine needs to be strip mined of its human capital.

taiwanese-identity For inspiration, I would look to China’s “31 Steps for Taiwan” program:

On Feb. 28, it unveiled a package of 31 “incentives” to attract Taiwanese people and businesses to the mainland, offering tax breaks and subsidies for high-tech companies, research grants for academics, and a promise to allow Taiwanese companies to bid for government infrastructure projects and even become involved in China’s “One Belt, One Road” global development plan.

China called the measures an expression of its belief that there is “one family” on both sides of the Taiwan Strait. Taiwanese Vice Premier Shih Jun-ji cast it as an effort to undermine the island’s economy.

“China’s attempt to attract Taiwan’s capital and talent, especially high tech and young students, has clear political intentions,” he said at a news conference, unveiling eight counter­measures designed to keep people at home.

In 2012, Oxford Economics judged that Taiwan faced the largest “talent deficit” among 46 countries surveyed, and the research firm recently said that the conclusion stands today.

Taiwan’s performance on the Nature Index, a proxy for elite scientific output, has collapsed by 40% in the past five years – the largest collapse of any country. A testament to the success of the 31 Steps.

Meanwhile, the development of a separate Taiwanese identity, which had previously grown rapidly, has basically stalled in this same period.

Now in one sense, this will be harder, since China is much bigger than Taiwan, and Ukraine also has an association agreement with the EU. But in another sense, it will also be easier, because Russian wages are 3x higher than Ukrainian ones, whereas it’s the opposite ratio between China and Taiwan.

For instance, Russian researcher salaries in the past 5 years have exploded – though from a very low base – and rose by 70% this year alone. They are now well north of $1,000, which is now probably an order of magnitude higher than in the Ukraine.

One positive result is that the criticisms I voiced in my large post decrying the state of Russian science have become less actual in the past few months alone, even if there is still a huge amount of lost ground to make up.

No doubt this happened because PUTLER personally reads my blog, as my multiple extremely high placed sources tell me all the time.

Anyhow, forget about Ukraine being 30% cheaper (or whatever) than Russia. With such a gap, Russia can easily attract most of Ukraine’s remaining elite researchers wholesale, no matter how svidomy they are.

Svidomism wins out over repression, but money wins out over svidomism.

Russia needs to come up with a program along the lines of China’s “31 Measures for Taiwan,” involving a complex package of subsidies, marketing, and immigration deregulation to strip mine the separatist entity of its human capital.

By strip mining the Ukraine of human capital, I mean something more sophisticated than just open borders and handing out Russian passports like candy (though that should certainly also be done, even if Poland will necessarily do better for now on account of its higher wages).

I mean selectively targeting Ukraine’s remaining cognitive elites and O-Ring sectors for transplantation into Russia wholesale, which is specifically what China is doing to Taiwan – successfully, despite their triple wage differential (my post on how the small, complex O-Ring sector determines wages for the economy as a whole). Nobody is currently doing that to the Ukraine that I know of. Sure, Ukrainian professors can still emigrate to Canada or whatever, but that requires a lot of work on their part; I just propose not just clearing away the red tape, but actively cajoling them along. The list of precisely which people, institutions, and corporations should be targeted requires serious analytical work. I am willing to offer my consulting services on this question at the ULTRA LOW rate of $500 per hour.

This would be perfectly congruent with the Russian nationalist position that the Ukraine is an extension of Russia. Admittedly, it’s not so congruent with the sovok view that treats the UkSSR as a legitimate entity with legitimate borders, a view that is still entrenched in the Russian bureaucracy that occasionally even tries to send Ukrainians who fought in the Novorossiya Armed Forces back into the loving embrace of the SBU. This has prevented and will likely continue to prevent Russia from adopting these Chinese best practices, at least until sovok ways of thinking become fully discredited and the Lenin statues start to come down.

However, on the off chance that PUTLER continues heeding my advice, here’s what will happen when “31 Steps for the Ukraine” are implemented:

1. Russia will at the very least benefit from a modest expansion of its smart fraction, which will be ethnically non-hostile (something you can’t say of all Brahmins) and will come at close to zero cost – while also weakening a hostile state.

2. The immigrating Ukrainians will also benefit (otherwise, why would they go?).

3. To be sure, the Russians who insist on larping as Ukrainians in the Ukraine will not be so well off. But such is the cost of their “European choice.”

But there will be no more wars, either real ones (ruled out by Ukrainian military improvements since 2014) or gas wars (you pay for the gas or you don’t get the gas, simple as – for everything else there is Nord Stream 2 and China).

4. Over time, there will be a reflux effect as these elite Ukrainians form a moneyed, high IQ pro-Russian constituency.

5. Obviously it would be best if the EU continues disintegrating and/or destroying itself with Infinity Refugees to help make the choices on offer in the Ukraine clearer.

There is no particular need to cause needless antagonism by repressing Ukrainian svidomism. Instead, it would seem logical to partly adopt Ukrainian svidomism and weaponize it for Russian national purposes.

I have already suggested the EXTREMELY POWERFUL idea of staging gladitorial combat between sovoks and svidomy to decide the fate of individual Lenin statues. Sovoks win – they stay. Svidomy win – they get to pull it down. Rinse and repeat for every town and city. Make it a weekly, televised event. It will let the svidomy have a sort of voice and investment into Russia’s direction, blow off necessary steam, and inject some Bronze Age vitalism into the body politic.

The anti-Bandera cult will need to be dismantled, but it seems pretty useless and played out anyway, like most sovok things. Indeed, why stop at just painting Bandera as a renegade Russian? That’s for the weak. An EVEN MORE POWERFUL idea would be to reinvent Bandera as a Russian hero, fighting against the Communist, Jewish, and Polish oppressors.

By that time, Russia will be responsible for the Holocaust anyway, so it will have nothing to lose anyway.

Bonus: Ukrainian nationalist songs are pretty groovy.

At the end of the day, it is not ordinary people – proles – who set national policies. It is national elites. While the Ukraine was roughly evenly divided between Russia and the West from 1991-2014, its elites were consistently Atlanticist in orientation, and dragged the rest of the country along; no matter how generously Russia subsidized its proles. Russia needs to co-opt the Ukraine’s national elites in the same way that the West did after 1991. And I don’t mean through crony deals with their post-sovok rulers – the only approach that Russian sovoks understand. I mean making Russian culture so majestic and attractive that they not only wish to submit, but actually pay for the privilege.

Once that happens, the Ukrainian masses will follow in the footsteps of Viktor Marchenko, the anti-hero of Deus Ex: Mankind Divided:

Born: 1991 near Zaporizhia, Ukraine
Left school after 10 years (2 years shy of the compulsory 12) to become a shift worker on a drilling gang looking for shale-gas deposits in eastern Ukraine.
Ran into trouble in 2011 when a group of Pro-Russian separatists started a fight with his crew in Mariupol after work; he tried to break it up, got injured, and ended up in hospital. Could have been when he got augmented-not sure. (Records get pretty scarce here. In fact, there’s a good 12 year period we can’t account for, and no record of when or where he DID get augmented.)
Shows up again briefly in 2023, this time with a wife and newborn kid: Alisa Maratovna and Raisa Viktorichna. Only now he’s in Belgorod.
Which I don’t get, frankly.
A pro-Ukrainian national moving to Russia only makes sense if he stayed with energy companies all those years. Everyone wanted a piece of their reserves after 2015. But that would have put him somewhere in Siberia, not Belgorod. Belgorod is on the border with Ukraine. It’s got nothing to do with oil. It does, however, have a long history of military occupation-and in 2016, it was the city from which the newly-minted Russian Federated States deployed Belltower Associates to quell Ukraine’s anti-separatist dissension once and for all.

After all, the US even dropped a couple of nukes on Japan, but soon afterwards, the Japanese came to love the Americans. While some claim that questions of cultural influence are very hard, in reality they are extremely simple: People love winners, and despise losers. The Russian Empire were winners, so much so that there were strong Russophile movements in Galicia, and in far-off Bohemia (Masaryk wanted to introduce Russian language instructions in Czech schools – understandably vetoed by the Austrian authorities). The sovoks were losers – so much so that by the 1990s, even many Russians wanted to have nothing to do with Russia.

It’s time to become winners again through SWPL supremacism, CRISPR-transhumanism, and neoliberal domestic economics.

na-korable-polden

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Futurism, Nationalism, Russia, Svidomy, Ukraine 
Hide 752 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. This would be genius proposal, and level of trolling.

    Some kind of life-time special free tax zone in Russia, for citizens of Ukraine, with assets over certain level?

    Also including amnesty, and promise never to extradite (either person or resources) to Ukraine (or any other country) of all people accused of financial crime in Ukraine.

    I wonder what proportion immigration of Ukraine’s elite and their assets would immigrate.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @AP

    This would be genius proposal, and level of trolling.
     
    Best trolling ever would be Thorfinnson's idea of Russia adopting the Ukrainian Trident as its symbol and blue and yellow as its colors. Since Russians stole Rus anyways, why not go with it? Ukrainians would have to come up with something else then.
  2. Anyhow, forget about Ukraine being 30% cheaper (or whatever) than Russia. With such a gap, Russia can easily attract most of Ukraine’s remaining elite researchers wholesale, no matter how svidomy they are.

    Why opt for a 30% raise in Russia when you can get an 500% to 1,000% raise somewhere in the West?

    Your idea to partly adopt Ukrainian svidomism and weaponize it for Russian national purposes is about the only thing that makes any sense here. I’ve thought about this myself on several occasions. Don’t fight it, go with it. You could reinvent both Russian and Ukrainian svidomism where both branches of Rus come out ahead! :-)

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Why opt for a 30% raise in Russia when you can get an 500% to 1,000% raise somewhere in the West?

     

    For jobs in Western countries, you need to apply and win a job first (for visa requirements, often in designated skill areas), including travelling there for an interview - and then afterwards you can apply for a visa. You also usually need formally recognized English exams. And then you still have to go through a lot of process to renew the visa at least one time, before (after years of working), applying for residency.

    If there is some kind of special program offered in mass to researchers in Ukraine, including all kinds of benefits and streamlining of paperwork (something like instant citizenship and tax-free would be cool) - Karlin's proposal would be successful for attracting a lot of people.

    It would need a very large budget (to create new jobs for all these people) and someone intelligently to design program.

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    What Dmitry said, plus:

    What 30% raise? Russian wages are thrice higher than Ukrainian ones. The gap in academic wages is perhaps close to 10x now, unless Ukraine also started massively increasing them recently (I doubt it). Ukrainian prices are 30% cheaper, which isn't anywhere near enough to close that gap - I mention it because its something that AP mentions a lot (quoting that guy from Lvov who claimed that $100 there is equivalent to $1,000 in Moscow). If much poorer China can brain drain Taiwan, then much richer Russia should be able to do that easily to Ukraine - with the appropriate policies.
    , @Aslangeo
    the barriers for migration to the west for Ukrainians (and Russians as well) are large.

    1. Getting a Visa - a lot of reluctance to admit immigrants (this is sidestepped by the bogus refugees who live in a shadow world - but what self respecting scientist or engineer wants to clean toilets)

    2. Getting a job - 10 to 20% youth unemployment in some countries - for a non native convincing a prestige employer is much harder - Big home bias. Big restrictions now on companies sponsoring specialists from the third world (In the UK they need to earn twice the average salary to get a visa, hence Ukrainian immigrants would no longer be cheap)

    3. Qualifications - who knows how good the university of Kharkov is? - did said engineer buy their diploma?

    4. Language barrier - still exists, even if they vaguely understand English, can they speak German or French

    I do not believe that any of these barriers would exist for a Ukrainian scientist moving to Russia
    They already speak the language, Russians know about Ukrainian qualifications and universities, strong cultural similarities (like a Swede moving to Denmark) and as far as I know no visa barriers.

    win - win for all (my dedushka was an example)
  3. @Mr. Hack

    Anyhow, forget about Ukraine being 30% cheaper (or whatever) than Russia. With such a gap, Russia can easily attract most of Ukraine’s remaining elite researchers wholesale, no matter how svidomy they are.
     
    Why opt for a 30% raise in Russia when you can get an 500% to 1,000% raise somewhere in the West?

    Your idea to partly adopt Ukrainian svidomism and weaponize it for Russian national purposes is about the only thing that makes any sense here. I've thought about this myself on several occasions. Don't fight it, go with it. You could reinvent both Russian and Ukrainian svidomism where both branches of Rus come out ahead! :-)

    Why opt for a 30% raise in Russia when you can get an 500% to 1,000% raise somewhere in the West?

    For jobs in Western countries, you need to apply and win a job first (for visa requirements, often in designated skill areas), including travelling there for an interview – and then afterwards you can apply for a visa. You also usually need formally recognized English exams. And then you still have to go through a lot of process to renew the visa at least one time, before (after years of working), applying for residency.

    If there is some kind of special program offered in mass to researchers in Ukraine, including all kinds of benefits and streamlining of paperwork (something like instant citizenship and tax-free would be cool) – Karlin’s proposal would be successful for attracting a lot of people.

    It would need a very large budget (to create new jobs for all these people) and someone intelligently to design program.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    This is not true. In my 27 years in the US Universities the only agency that ever wanted to see my diplomas was INS (now US CIS) when my visa was switched from J1 to H1-B. Even they did not want any evidence for English proficiency.

    The problem with Ukrainians moving to the US or EU is that only really good competitive people can do that. There are few of those in Ukraine today: everybody who is anybody (and a lot of nobodies, as well) has already left.

    Karlin’s proposal has another drawback. Population strengthens countries only when that population is of good quality. The people who bought into cargo-cult of European integration, those who meekly accept their declining living standards and withering political freedoms under current criminal regime in Kiev can only weaken a country that accepts them. Maybe 10% of the remaining Ukrainian residents (i.e., 2-3 million people max) are good enough to strengthen Russia, and Russia currently is attracting many of these people, such as qualified workers and engineers running from rotting Ukrainian industry, etc. Russia certainly should not attempt to bring in so-called Ukrainian elites: there are enough shameless thieves in Russia as it is.
  4. @Mr. Hack

    Anyhow, forget about Ukraine being 30% cheaper (or whatever) than Russia. With such a gap, Russia can easily attract most of Ukraine’s remaining elite researchers wholesale, no matter how svidomy they are.
     
    Why opt for a 30% raise in Russia when you can get an 500% to 1,000% raise somewhere in the West?

    Your idea to partly adopt Ukrainian svidomism and weaponize it for Russian national purposes is about the only thing that makes any sense here. I've thought about this myself on several occasions. Don't fight it, go with it. You could reinvent both Russian and Ukrainian svidomism where both branches of Rus come out ahead! :-)

    What Dmitry said, plus:

    What 30% raise? Russian wages are thrice higher than Ukrainian ones. The gap in academic wages is perhaps close to 10x now, unless Ukraine also started massively increasing them recently (I doubt it). Ukrainian prices are 30% cheaper, which isn’t anywhere near enough to close that gap – I mention it because its something that AP mentions a lot (quoting that guy from Lvov who claimed that $100 there is equivalent to $1,000 in Moscow). If much poorer China can brain drain Taiwan, then much richer Russia should be able to do that easily to Ukraine – with the appropriate policies.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Sure, a lot of Ukrainians would move to Russia to take advantage of such opportunities. They may even appreciate Russians and their culture more so than before such an exprience. This doesn't guarantee that they'd change their political opinions. Look at AP, he loves Russia, but hates its policies towards Ukraine.
    , @AP

    Ukrainian prices are 30% cheaper, which isn’t anywhere near enough to close that gap – I mention it because its something that AP mentions a lot (quoting that guy from Lvov who claimed that $100 there is equivalent to $1,000 in Moscow).
     
    Yeah that guy was exaggerating.

    However Ukraine is more than 30% cheaper.

    Comparing Lviv to Moscow:

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Moscow&country2=Ukraine&city2=Lviv

    Consumer Prices in Lviv are 37.52% lower than in Moscow
    Consumer Prices Including Rent in Lviv are 48.19% lower than in Moscow
    Rent Prices in Lviv are 66.22% lower than in Moscow
    Restaurant Prices in Lviv are 56.48% lower than in Moscow
    Groceries Prices in Lviv are 33.91% lower than in Moscow
    Local Purchasing Power in Lviv is 48.07% lower than in Moscow

    A monthly salary of $1,400 in Lviv (typical programmer salary) is like $2,700 in Moscow. And quality in Lviv for things like food in restaurants is higher (although Moscow has better Georgian food).

    Similar story with Kiev:

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Moscow&country2=Ukraine&city2=Kiev&displayCurrency=USD

    But you would have to pay much more than the equivalent salary to attract people to a place with worse (much colder) climate, far from home, and where the potential incoming people hate the politics. A programmer making $1,400 in Lviv is most likely not going to move to Moscow for $2,700.

    After Maidan enough of Boeing's Ukrainian researchers in Moscow wanted to go to Ukraine that Boeing opened a second R & D facility there.

    I have no idea how accurate this website is:

    https://teleport.org/cities/kiev/salaries/

    https://teleport.org/cities/moscow/salaries/

    But according to it, median salary for research scientist in Kiev is $7,253 and in Moscow it is $16,078. Taking into account cost of living differences it's not a wide gulf.
    , @The Big Red Scary

    The gap in academic wages is perhaps close to 10x now, unless Ukraine also started massively increasing them recently
     
    My sample of young Ukrainian researchers working in Moscow tells me that even the pay as a student here is significantly better than as a researcher in Kiev, that science is almost totally dead in Kiev and that this is very demotivating (the best remaining scientists having been mediocre students in Moscow back in the 70s), and that while young people can make a good living as programmers relative to the cost of living, the work conditions and hours are not sustainable for people with families.

    It is conceivable that the situation in Kiev will improve over the next decade or two, but this is far from certain.

  5. @Anatoly Karlin
    What Dmitry said, plus:

    What 30% raise? Russian wages are thrice higher than Ukrainian ones. The gap in academic wages is perhaps close to 10x now, unless Ukraine also started massively increasing them recently (I doubt it). Ukrainian prices are 30% cheaper, which isn't anywhere near enough to close that gap - I mention it because its something that AP mentions a lot (quoting that guy from Lvov who claimed that $100 there is equivalent to $1,000 in Moscow). If much poorer China can brain drain Taiwan, then much richer Russia should be able to do that easily to Ukraine - with the appropriate policies.

    Sure, a lot of Ukrainians would move to Russia to take advantage of such opportunities. They may even appreciate Russians and their culture more so than before such an exprience. This doesn’t guarantee that they’d change their political opinions. Look at AP, he loves Russia, but hates its policies towards Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    This sort of reminds me of some American Jews who retain a soft spot for Israel and Israel's interests in spite of the fact that they live in the U.S. and are U.S. citizens.
    , @Mikhail
    Sensing that AP's core views (like Poland is better for Ukraine than Russia) don't constitute the majority of ethnic Ukrainians in Russia. Numerous pro-Russian Ukrainians in the former Ukrainian SSR and elsewhere.
  6. How much of that describes your ideal 21st century Russia?

    [MORE]

    Russia, officially the Russian Republic is a state in Eastern Europe and North Asia.
    The capital is Petropavlovsk. National language is Russian.
    It is governed as a unitary semi-presidential republic. Russia includes 57 oblasts and 1 capital district.

    Oblasts have wide self-management in internal affairs. The oblast’s Administration is subordinated to the Oblast’s Council – a regional legislature elected by a oblast election. Alongside with the Administration and the Council there are representatives of the central government (appointed from the capital) to oversee regional power’s activities and to fight with corruption.

    Things that were (need to be) changed:
    - National autonomies are abolished, their ethnocracies are disbanded, an active policy is being implemented to plant the Russian language. Yakutia is divided between two existing regions and one newly formed one. The Caucasian republics are joined to the nearing Russian populated oblasts.
    - Irredentism: the southern Urals and Siberia and the city of Narva are annexed. In the former Kazakh territories, a jerrimendering was conducted to establish the absolute Russian majority in all newly formed oblasts. Two million Kazakhs living on annexed lands are subject to a policy of extrusion, like real Kazakh and Baltic ones. Citizenship is issued only to those who lived in these territories until 1991 or their descendants. Thus, oralmans and settlers from South Kazakhstan are cut off and are forced to leave.
    - The capital is in Petropavlovsk. A small wave of migration from Russia will press the Kazakhs even more, also the capital was also moved out of major economic centers and big cities to destroy financial centralization of the country.
    - New federal highways have been built (Arkhangelsk-Kirov, Irkutsk-Magadan and Khabarovsk-Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk), through which the economy and infrastructure of the northern regions and the Far East are more likely to develop.
    - The new administrative division, basically, is built on the state policy of urbanization. The Russian villagers and the population of the northern Siberian and Yakut regions are forced to move to the cities. Thus, depressed provincial regions are eliminated, and in the non-Russian regions cities are assimilating non-Russian population.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Some things are solid, but too many overly powerful decisions (even by my standards).
    , @Verymuchalive

    In the former Kazakh territories, a jerrimendering was conducted to establish the absolute Russian majority in all newly formed oblasts.
     
    (The term is gerrymander, but I understand that your first language is not English)
    If it's going to grab North Kazakhstan, Russia better be quick. In 1990, 38% of the population of Kazakhstan was Russian. Now it's below 25%. Long term, failure to act will probably result in the displacement of this population.
  7. As you say, money talks. The EU has it. Even Poland and Warsaw is cheaper than Moscow.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Actually they're about the same according to Numbeo.

    Anyhow, the EU doesn't have much money - individual EU countries have money.

    Ukrainians go to Poland like Central Asians go to Russia - to make 4x more money doing mostly unskilled labor, then go back to enjoy it in cheaper Ukraine.

    I am not talking about that sort of low-tier stuff.
  8. Unless Russian nationalists drop the idea of absolute Russification of Ukrainians (culture, language) then this won’t work in the long-run. If they abandon the (pardon my esjaydubya language) chauvinism then this may well work, but for now its implausible.

  9. @Philip Owen
    As you say, money talks. The EU has it. Even Poland and Warsaw is cheaper than Moscow.

    Actually they’re about the same according to Numbeo.

    Anyhow, the EU doesn’t have much money – individual EU countries have money.

    Ukrainians go to Poland like Central Asians go to Russia – to make 4x more money doing mostly unskilled labor, then go back to enjoy it in cheaper Ukraine.

    I am not talking about that sort of low-tier stuff.

    • Replies: @AP

    Ukrainians go to Poland like Central Asians go to Russia – to make 4x more money doing mostly unskilled labor, then go back to enjoy it in cheaper Ukraine.
     
    The part about unskilled is an exaggeration. There are Ukrainian engineers, electricians, etc. in Poland, they are not just working as unskilled labor.

    Salaries are about twice as high in Poland than they are in Russia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

    and Warsaw is closer to Kiev than Moscow is.

    Unless the Russian government is going to subsidize salaries for Ukrainians moving there why would they go?
    , @Eagle Eye
    Russia should take a leaf out of China's book and develop new high-tech special economic regions (SER) following China's example. (China essentially set up several mini-Hong Kongs with much reduced regulation inside its own borders.)

    Kaliningrad, Khabarovsk, Vladivostok, Odessa and Sevastopol are obvious candidates.

    Russia's SER's would need to offer:

    (1) Solid property laws and individual liberty including right to bear arms based on traditional Anglo-American concepts.

    (2) A high degree of independence in the making and administration of laws, combined with a light touch in safeguarding Russia's basic national interests (NEVER the same as covering up local corruption).

    (3) Stringent environmental safeguards to keep the environment attractive for high-caliber residents with families.

    (4) Real anti-trust law backed up by powerful, independent enforcement. No entity should be permitted to control more than 10% of any market.

    (5) Solid, high quality education system with early and deep exposure to Russian, English, Chinese and classical languages as well as rigorous STEM education in the Russian tradition with strict written tests. A HIGH-QUALITY EDUCATION SYSTEM BY ITSELF IS A MAJOR PULL FACTOR FOR ASPIRING FAMILIES.

    (6) Semi-independent nationality and immigration law, including ability to negotiate visa waivers with other countries, again based on Hong Kong precedents.

    (7) Exclusive reliance on private operators under long-term contracts to build and operate freeways, power stations, other infrastructure. Again, no operator gets more than 10% of the volume in any of those areas, and both vertical and horizontal cooperation among operators is strictly controlled.

    (8) Constitutional limits on all types of taxes.

    (9) No permanent public employees. All public positions are subject to sudden dismissal and replacement based on random drawings to avoid entrenchment.

    (10) Restrictive immigration policies. Immigrants must have worked and paid taxes for 7 years before they acquire permanent residence status, 12 years before they are eligible for naturalization.

    (11) Voting rights: active voting from 30, passive voting rights start at 35 conditional on military service or private-sector work and payment of taxes. Enhanced voting rights for those who have been married for at least 5 years with biological children.

    ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD?

  10. @Mitleser
    How much of that describes your ideal 21st century Russia?

    https://orig00.deviantart.net/b509/f/2018/272/7/e/how_we_should_organize_russia_by_kreiviskai-dco2raj.png


    Russia, officially the Russian Republic is a state in Eastern Europe and North Asia.
    The capital is Petropavlovsk. National language is Russian.
    It is governed as a unitary semi-presidential republic. Russia includes 57 oblasts and 1 capital district.

    Oblasts have wide self-management in internal affairs. The oblast's Administration is subordinated to the Oblast's Council - a regional legislature elected by a oblast election. Alongside with the Administration and the Council there are representatives of the central government (appointed from the capital) to oversee regional power's activities and to fight with corruption.

    Things that were (need to be) changed:
    - National autonomies are abolished, their ethnocracies are disbanded, an active policy is being implemented to plant the Russian language. Yakutia is divided between two existing regions and one newly formed one. The Caucasian republics are joined to the nearing Russian populated oblasts.
    - Irredentism: the southern Urals and Siberia and the city of Narva are annexed. In the former Kazakh territories, a jerrimendering was conducted to establish the absolute Russian majority in all newly formed oblasts. Two million Kazakhs living on annexed lands are subject to a policy of extrusion, like real Kazakh and Baltic ones. Citizenship is issued only to those who lived in these territories until 1991 or their descendants. Thus, oralmans and settlers from South Kazakhstan are cut off and are forced to leave.
    - The capital is in Petropavlovsk. A small wave of migration from Russia will press the Kazakhs even more, also the capital was also moved out of major economic centers and big cities to destroy financial centralization of the country.
    - New federal highways have been built (Arkhangelsk-Kirov, Irkutsk-Magadan and Khabarovsk-Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk), through which the economy and infrastructure of the northern regions and the Far East are more likely to develop.
    - The new administrative division, basically, is built on the state policy of urbanization. The Russian villagers and the population of the northern Siberian and Yakut regions are forced to move to the cities. Thus, depressed provincial regions are eliminated, and in the non-Russian regions cities are assimilating non-Russian population.
     

    Some things are solid, but too many overly powerful decisions (even by my standards).

  11. It is a promising idea, but let me throw a few objections:

    1. Large % of Ukrainians is ‘in love‘ with the West. It is hard to fight emotions with money. Especially since the precise gains-losses will always be ambiguous (see Mr. Hack above).

    2. The value of all those high-IQ, entrepreneur, heavily-credentialed people is way overstated in most discussions (Unz suffers from this a lot). They are not that valuable, actually most are probably a net drain on a society due to their inflated self-worth. Ukraine might even be better of with a smaller, less ‘elite‘, down-to-earth population.

    3. West wouldn’t sit idle. The kind of jiu-jitsu you propose has strong elements of Gorbachev (‘whoops, what if we take your enemy away?‘). We have all seen how that has worked out. West would simply up the ante and ruthlessly exploit any openings.

    4. It would take a very long time. (see 3. for consequences).

    It beats shooting at each other, but just barely. Maybe a well placed missile would work better.

    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    I like Karlin's idea have not thought of it my self.

    So I will try and defend it here.

    1. You don't need them in Russia. They are the ones you want to hurt with Karlin's proposal by denying them leverage over pro Russian Ukranians.

    2. Real High IQ is extremely valuable and rare. Precisely targeting them would be a coup of it own. Administering IQ tests as part of the program for example.

    3. No they won't but then they would have to stoop to Russian level to compete. So Ukraine will get brain drained even faster. Plus the west already has svidomi high IQ on their side as you said emotions matter. Russia would not concern it self with those.

    4. It's all a long game. Everyone has nukes no more domination victory only cultural and scientific is possible now.
    , @edNels
    This commenter makes a nice sensible observation: among the rest of breezy gobbldygook.

    2. The value of all those high-IQ, entrepreneur, heavily-credentialed people is way overstated in most discussions (Unz suffers from this a lot). They are not that valuable, actually most are probably a net drain on a society due to their inflated self-worth. Ukraine might even be better of with a smaller, less ‘elite‘, down-to-earth population.
     
    It should be expanded upon in its own article far more important than pointless handwringing about that ''s-hole'' of a hodgepodge country, that doesn't fit in. That is with the stipulation that what is good for the goose, … what goes on around will come back…


    Now that everything is already invented and Ai will soon be in charge, there won't even be any need of the phony front men that used to hold the place and ''humanize'' or wtf, to add plausible deniability to the onward march of tech tyranny. What is needed there will be ''down to earth'' peasants who will throw rocks at the drones… not those who are a '' net drain on a society due to their inflated self-worth.''

    Entrepreneur no less! Isn't that French Charlie? Why do the self anointed still cling to that silly word anyway didn't they have a English one to use? Something phony when they break loose with the Frog words… FuFu to the Max, Russians famous for the French ostentation too of course from the Westernization campaigns of yore…

    Go sell pencils or apples Frencophile bums What countries need and don't appreciate ever are the down to earth doers of the work. nobody will remember the Faces of the Entrepreneurs, who sprang up out of nowhere somehow, with Tech that was top secret...developed behind closed laboratories in Universities with oodles of money mana... Look at these faces as deer inteh headlights as to what to do or say... pressure... shouldn't opened up pandora's box maybe.
  12. @Dmitry
    This would be genius proposal, and level of trolling.

    Some kind of life-time special free tax zone in Russia, for citizens of Ukraine, with assets over certain level?

    Also including amnesty, and promise never to extradite (either person or resources) to Ukraine (or any other country) of all people accused of financial crime in Ukraine.

    I wonder what proportion immigration of Ukraine's elite and their assets would immigrate.

    This would be genius proposal, and level of trolling.

    Best trolling ever would be Thorfinnson’s idea of Russia adopting the Ukrainian Trident as its symbol and blue and yellow as its colors. Since Russians stole Rus anyways, why not go with it? Ukrainians would have to come up with something else then.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Correction on the below highlighted:

    Best trolling ever would be Thorfinnson’s idea of Russia adopting the Ukrainian Trident as its symbol and blue and yellow as its colors. Since Russians stole Rus anyways, why not go with it? Ukrainians would have to come up with something else then.
     
    You can't steal what's already a part of you. The Tryzub is an early day Russian emblem, in line with the Riurik line of monarchs who ruled Russia for the period thru Vasili IV.

    The Tryzub on the background of the Russian national colors in flag and emblem forms is something that has already been evident. The blue and yellow Ukriian national colors are a fairly recent (in historical terms) development.
  13. @Anatoly Karlin
    Actually they're about the same according to Numbeo.

    Anyhow, the EU doesn't have much money - individual EU countries have money.

    Ukrainians go to Poland like Central Asians go to Russia - to make 4x more money doing mostly unskilled labor, then go back to enjoy it in cheaper Ukraine.

    I am not talking about that sort of low-tier stuff.

    Ukrainians go to Poland like Central Asians go to Russia – to make 4x more money doing mostly unskilled labor, then go back to enjoy it in cheaper Ukraine.

    The part about unskilled is an exaggeration. There are Ukrainian engineers, electricians, etc. in Poland, they are not just working as unskilled labor.

    Salaries are about twice as high in Poland than they are in Russia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

    and Warsaw is closer to Kiev than Moscow is.

    Unless the Russian government is going to subsidize salaries for Ukrainians moving there why would they go?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    There are Ukrainian engineers, electricians, etc. in Poland, they are not just working as unskilled labor.
     
    Too low-tier. I am thinking more of 4a games (though they've already decamped to Cyprus), and up.

    Poaching the professors at Taras Shevchenko and other top 20 universities.

    Not subsidize salaries - they don't need to do that, unlike China with Taiwan - but things like tax breaks will be very attractive. That's why 4a went to Cyprus, after all.

    Distances will not be a problem for such people either.

    Since Russians stole Rus anyways, why not go with it?
     
    Svidomism intensifies. But that's fine.
  14. why not “39 Steps”?

    anyway, to celebrate Karlin’s brilliant plan, which is sure to work, here is a pretty bad performance of Tchaikovsky’s pretty bad Symphony #2, a.k.a., “Little Russia”:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=CRGK4cv0k9c

    • Replies: @Excal
    von Karajan .. such a pity ..

    Say what you like about Rattle, but on balance I much preferred him.
  15. @AP

    Ukrainians go to Poland like Central Asians go to Russia – to make 4x more money doing mostly unskilled labor, then go back to enjoy it in cheaper Ukraine.
     
    The part about unskilled is an exaggeration. There are Ukrainian engineers, electricians, etc. in Poland, they are not just working as unskilled labor.

    Salaries are about twice as high in Poland than they are in Russia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

    and Warsaw is closer to Kiev than Moscow is.

    Unless the Russian government is going to subsidize salaries for Ukrainians moving there why would they go?

    There are Ukrainian engineers, electricians, etc. in Poland, they are not just working as unskilled labor.

    Too low-tier. I am thinking more of 4a games (though they’ve already decamped to Cyprus), and up.

    Poaching the professors at Taras Shevchenko and other top 20 universities.

    Not subsidize salaries – they don’t need to do that, unlike China with Taiwan – but things like tax breaks will be very attractive. That’s why 4a went to Cyprus, after all.

    Distances will not be a problem for such people either.

    Since Russians stole Rus anyways, why not go with it?

    Svidomism intensifies. But that’s fine.

    • Replies: @AP

    Too low-tier. I am thinking more of 4a games (though they’ve already decamped to Cyprus), and up.
     
    4A games moved its HQ to Malta but most of it employees still work in Ukraine:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4A_Games

    I actually know a high-level manager in an outsourcing company who moved back to to Lviv after living in Canada. Lviv is a great place for day to day living (beautiful architecture, lots of excellent restaurants and cafes, friends he grew up with, Ukrainian environment for the kids) and from here this guy has no trouble taking his family skiing in Austria or Italy, visiting Greece, etc. Company makes its money from foreign contracts, so the hryvnia devaluation didn't really affect him, it made his money go much further. Even if he paid zero taxes in Russia, I doubt it would be enough to entice him or others in his position to move to a place that is much more expensive, colder, far from friends, and in a rival country.* A place like Italy might be intriguing, but not Russia.

    *A problem with the Taiwan to China comparison is that, AFAIK, the elite Taiwanese are ethnic Chinese who fled Communists on the mainland. It's like Vassily Aksyonov's book about the Island of Crimea. It's not a people who consider themselves to really be a separate nation. So moving to China isn't moving to another country that one dislikes, but to one's own historical homeland.
  16. Anatoly, have you ever considered the possibility that, if your plan actually works, it could also backfire in the sense that a high-profile pro-Ukrainian lobby could develop in Russia similar to, say, the Armenian lobby in Russia or the Israel lobby in the U.S.? For instance, I could imagine these elite Ukrainians trying to push Russia to give up Crimea and the Donbass while also pushing Russia to join the E.U. in order to strengthen the Slavic and White presence in the E.U.

    Also, as a side note, I have a question both of you and for everyone else here: Let’s say that there would have been no World War II (for instance, as a result of Britain and France standing firm over the Sudetenland in 1938 and thus causing some German generals to overthrow Hitler and the Nazis; without Hitler, there is no World War II) and that Poland would have kept the Kresy (its Ukrainian-majority and Belarusian-majority territories, in addition to Lvov and Vilnius). In such a scenario, Poland would have escaped Communism and would have thus likely developed an Italian or Spanish standard of living by the early 21st century. In such a scenario–assuming that the Soviet Union still collapses on schedule near the end of the 20th century–is Ukraine likely to lean West or East? After all, while Ukraine would have been deprived of its most pro-Western areas (which would have remained a part of Poland in this scenario), Poland would have also been much richer in this scenario–something which could potentially attract even nominally pro-Russian Ukrainians in eastern and southern Ukraine. After all, as you wrote, money can certainly trump nationalism!

    Anyway, any thoughts on this?

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    high-profile pro-Ukrainian lobby
     
    This why it might be good to emphasise tax-free, extradition free, shelter for any rich in Ukraine accused of financial crimes (which is not so uncommon in Ukraine) by Ukraine.

    In order words, there could be a special program acting as a channel for elites, in dispute with Kiev, to repatriate assets to Russia. In this case, it will be people who are opposed to Ukraine.
    -


    Israel already achieved this (in some comic way), with some ex-Yanukovich people.

    For example, ex-Ecology and Energy and Coal Minister (for Yanukovich) Eduard Stavitsky, is now secretly become a man called "Rosenberg" who lives in Tel Aviv.*

    In running from Ukraine, though, Stavitsky has to leave behind and lose some of his watches and gold bars in Ukraine (which must be sad for him).

    In Karlin's 31 step program, perhaps there could utilize special forces units, to help repatriate moveable assets of such kinds of people to Russia.

    -
    *

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvUpe--kZ6Q
    , @Aslangeo
    A Ukrainian ethnic lobby in Russia is unlikely in my opinion. Ukrainians who move to Russia assimilate pretty quickly (like my grandpa). Their children speak Russian and tend to identify as Russian. There is a lot of intermarriage (like my grandparents) and not that much nostalgia, and certainly no love for the extreme Ukrop nationalists. The ukrop super nationalists are unlikely to move to Russia for economic reasons, they are more likely to be cleaning toilets in Poland

    A western example is of people of Irish heritage in England. Their children are accepted as English, speak with English regional accents and are loyal to Britain, even if a few of them do play for the Irish Republic football team. There is a limited Irish lobby in England (the IRA did not help). This is in contrast to Irish Americans for whom anglophobia is a cultural sacrosanct.

    Th contrast with the Armenians is stark, even after a few generations Armenians identify with their ancestral homeland which they see as being perpetually under threat. The cultural differences are greater than with Ukrainians but there are some mixed marriages
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    I don't think so for the reasons that others have laid out. Ukrainians assimilate into Russians quickly.

    Some of the hardest people on the UQ (Ukrainian Question) are Russo-Ukrainians, Sergey Glazyev being the ur-example.
  17. @Anatoly Karlin
    What Dmitry said, plus:

    What 30% raise? Russian wages are thrice higher than Ukrainian ones. The gap in academic wages is perhaps close to 10x now, unless Ukraine also started massively increasing them recently (I doubt it). Ukrainian prices are 30% cheaper, which isn't anywhere near enough to close that gap - I mention it because its something that AP mentions a lot (quoting that guy from Lvov who claimed that $100 there is equivalent to $1,000 in Moscow). If much poorer China can brain drain Taiwan, then much richer Russia should be able to do that easily to Ukraine - with the appropriate policies.

    Ukrainian prices are 30% cheaper, which isn’t anywhere near enough to close that gap – I mention it because its something that AP mentions a lot (quoting that guy from Lvov who claimed that $100 there is equivalent to $1,000 in Moscow).

    Yeah that guy was exaggerating.

    However Ukraine is more than 30% cheaper.

    Comparing Lviv to Moscow:

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Moscow&country2=Ukraine&city2=Lviv

    Consumer Prices in Lviv are 37.52% lower than in Moscow
    Consumer Prices Including Rent in Lviv are 48.19% lower than in Moscow
    Rent Prices in Lviv are 66.22% lower than in Moscow
    Restaurant Prices in Lviv are 56.48% lower than in Moscow
    Groceries Prices in Lviv are 33.91% lower than in Moscow
    Local Purchasing Power in Lviv is 48.07% lower than in Moscow

    A monthly salary of $1,400 in Lviv (typical programmer salary) is like $2,700 in Moscow. And quality in Lviv for things like food in restaurants is higher (although Moscow has better Georgian food).

    Similar story with Kiev:

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Moscow&country2=Ukraine&city2=Kiev&displayCurrency=USD

    But you would have to pay much more than the equivalent salary to attract people to a place with worse (much colder) climate, far from home, and where the potential incoming people hate the politics. A programmer making $1,400 in Lviv is most likely not going to move to Moscow for $2,700.

    After Maidan enough of Boeing’s Ukrainian researchers in Moscow wanted to go to Ukraine that Boeing opened a second R & D facility there.

    I have no idea how accurate this website is:

    https://teleport.org/cities/kiev/salaries/

    https://teleport.org/cities/moscow/salaries/

    But according to it, median salary for research scientist in Kiev is $7,253 and in Moscow it is $16,078. Taking into account cost of living differences it’s not a wide gulf.

    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    Yeah but crime, svidomi and etc swing it highly in favor of moving to Russia. You have grenade explosions all over your country as feral svidomi use armament from military for their own purposes. Ukraine is turning into giant Chechnya.
    , @Gerard2

    However Ukraine is more than 30% cheaper.

    Comparing Lviv to Moscow:
     
    HAHAHAHAHAH! To think what a sad messed up freak you must be to write such stupid nonsense.



    Average Muscovite earns 5 times than the average in Lvov you sick POS, factor in the taxation difference...we have 5.5 times more,
    factor in the much,much cheaper electricity, gas (and use of electricity and gas) in Russia,
    then factor in the use of petrol...(about 4 times per person more in Russia than in Ukraine)< factor in the loss of money from the roads in Ukraine being extremely shit, far worse than in Russia ( which has numerous mitigating circumstances and is greatly improvin, with the Federal roads now mostly excellent)...with petrol 50% less in Russia, Gas consumption and gas prices a non-contest again,

    factor in the public transport

    factor in the fact of government spending in Russia is about 30 times more than Government spending in Ukraine ( with a huge slice of the "Ukrainian" government spending coming directly from Russian money),

    the factor in you numerous lies and the idea of ghostown Lvov as cheaper or in any way appealing compared to Russia's major cities...is beyond laughable

    Odessa, not to mention Kiev, Donbass, Kharkov have WAY more access to high end good that a shithole, decrepit Lvov you imbecile- go there and you will see in the number of high quality cars, high quality things in peoples houses is very low in lvov

    it's relative proximity to an EU countries does f**k all use in it getting hold of high quality EU good...Minsk and other cities in Belarus you will see more high quality EU googs/products you idiot than in Ukraine
    this is a country that imports exponentially way more Toilet paper than it does in cars or computers or high-tech machinery you f**ked in head m0ron.


    So "Consumer Prices" beyond idiocy...unless we are talking about the Ukrop national symbol...the Watermelon, as revered as cows are in India

    Rent Prices in Lviv are 66.22% lower than in Moscow
     
    ..hahahahahahahahahahahah! what's this for the imaginary contruction "boom" on Lvov and Ukraine you fantasist tramp? The new contruction of housing in Lvov is a non-starter, especially in comparison to the massive scale of construction going on in Russia, WTF is the importance of rents in Lvov when the vast majority own their own home ( typical of most ex Comunist countries you thick dickhead) . The level of construction there I know is very , very poor and low

    ...the paint to repaint the decrepit usual wooden shack in Lvov centre....that is a little bit cheaper (LOL)

    Also factor in the Interest rate at double the rate of Russia's, mortgages being more plentiful and easily available in Russia and a million other things

    Restaurant Prices in Lviv are 56.48% lower than in Moscow
     
    errr....No. More timewasting attention-whoring

    Local Purchasing Power in Lviv is 48.07% lower than in Moscow
     
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....idiot fantasist drivel

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Moscow&country2=Ukraine&city2=Kiev&displayCurrency=USD

    But you would have to pay much more than the equivalent salary to attract people to a place with worse (much colder) climate, far from home, and where the potential incoming people hate the politics. A programmer making $1,400 in Lviv is most likely not going to move to Moscow for $2,700.

    After Maidan enough of Boeing’s Ukrainian researchers in Moscow wanted to go to Ukraine that Boeing opened a second R & D facility there.

    I have no idea how accurate this website is:

    https://teleport.org/cities/kiev/salaries/

    https://teleport.org/cities/moscow/salaries/

    But according to it, median salary for research scientist in Kiev is $7,253 and in Moscow it is $16,078. Taking into account cost of living differences it’s not a wide gulf.

     

    More amusingly stupid fantasist garbage from some freak who probably would have Lvov as the last place on Earth would want to live ( and has most certainly never been there)
  18. @Mr. Hack
    Sure, a lot of Ukrainians would move to Russia to take advantage of such opportunities. They may even appreciate Russians and their culture more so than before such an exprience. This doesn't guarantee that they'd change their political opinions. Look at AP, he loves Russia, but hates its policies towards Ukraine.

    This sort of reminds me of some American Jews who retain a soft spot for Israel and Israel’s interests in spite of the fact that they live in the U.S. and are U.S. citizens.

  19. @Mr. XYZ
    Anatoly, have you ever considered the possibility that, if your plan actually works, it could also backfire in the sense that a high-profile pro-Ukrainian lobby could develop in Russia similar to, say, the Armenian lobby in Russia or the Israel lobby in the U.S.? For instance, I could imagine these elite Ukrainians trying to push Russia to give up Crimea and the Donbass while also pushing Russia to join the E.U. in order to strengthen the Slavic and White presence in the E.U.

    Also, as a side note, I have a question both of you and for everyone else here: Let's say that there would have been no World War II (for instance, as a result of Britain and France standing firm over the Sudetenland in 1938 and thus causing some German generals to overthrow Hitler and the Nazis; without Hitler, there is no World War II) and that Poland would have kept the Kresy (its Ukrainian-majority and Belarusian-majority territories, in addition to Lvov and Vilnius). In such a scenario, Poland would have escaped Communism and would have thus likely developed an Italian or Spanish standard of living by the early 21st century. In such a scenario--assuming that the Soviet Union still collapses on schedule near the end of the 20th century--is Ukraine likely to lean West or East? After all, while Ukraine would have been deprived of its most pro-Western areas (which would have remained a part of Poland in this scenario), Poland would have also been much richer in this scenario--something which could potentially attract even nominally pro-Russian Ukrainians in eastern and southern Ukraine. After all, as you wrote, money can certainly trump nationalism!

    Anyway, any thoughts on this?

    high-profile pro-Ukrainian lobby

    This why it might be good to emphasise tax-free, extradition free, shelter for any rich in Ukraine accused of financial crimes (which is not so uncommon in Ukraine) by Ukraine.

    In order words, there could be a special program acting as a channel for elites, in dispute with Kiev, to repatriate assets to Russia. In this case, it will be people who are opposed to Ukraine.
    -

    Israel already achieved this (in some comic way), with some ex-Yanukovich people.

    For example, ex-Ecology and Energy and Coal Minister (for Yanukovich) Eduard Stavitsky, is now secretly become a man called “Rosenberg” who lives in Tel Aviv.*

    In running from Ukraine, though, Stavitsky has to leave behind and lose some of his watches and gold bars in Ukraine (which must be sad for him).

    In Karlin’s 31 step program, perhaps there could utilize special forces units, to help repatriate moveable assets of such kinds of people to Russia.

    -
    *

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    In running from Ukraine, though, Stavitsky has to leave behind and lose some of his watches and gold bars in Ukraine (which must be sad for him).
     

    In Karlin’s 31 step program, perhaps there could utilize special forces units, to help repatriate moveable assets of such kinds of people to Russia.

     

    This kind of lost loot of Stavitsky, definitely worthy for a special forces mission - even if transfer fee for such people was only 10% or 20%.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzgaGYUe6nQ

  20. @Anatoly Karlin

    There are Ukrainian engineers, electricians, etc. in Poland, they are not just working as unskilled labor.
     
    Too low-tier. I am thinking more of 4a games (though they've already decamped to Cyprus), and up.

    Poaching the professors at Taras Shevchenko and other top 20 universities.

    Not subsidize salaries - they don't need to do that, unlike China with Taiwan - but things like tax breaks will be very attractive. That's why 4a went to Cyprus, after all.

    Distances will not be a problem for such people either.

    Since Russians stole Rus anyways, why not go with it?
     
    Svidomism intensifies. But that's fine.

    Too low-tier. I am thinking more of 4a games (though they’ve already decamped to Cyprus), and up.

    4A games moved its HQ to Malta but most of it employees still work in Ukraine:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4A_Games

    I actually know a high-level manager in an outsourcing company who moved back to to Lviv after living in Canada. Lviv is a great place for day to day living (beautiful architecture, lots of excellent restaurants and cafes, friends he grew up with, Ukrainian environment for the kids) and from here this guy has no trouble taking his family skiing in Austria or Italy, visiting Greece, etc. Company makes its money from foreign contracts, so the hryvnia devaluation didn’t really affect him, it made his money go much further. Even if he paid zero taxes in Russia, I doubt it would be enough to entice him or others in his position to move to a place that is much more expensive, colder, far from friends, and in a rival country.* A place like Italy might be intriguing, but not Russia.

    *A problem with the Taiwan to China comparison is that, AFAIK, the elite Taiwanese are ethnic Chinese who fled Communists on the mainland. It’s like Vassily Aksyonov’s book about the Island of Crimea. It’s not a people who consider themselves to really be a separate nation. So moving to China isn’t moving to another country that one dislikes, but to one’s own historical homeland.

  21. Japan submitted to the US after losing militarily and it’s now pro-American and serves as a military outpost because “winning” works, but Russia winning in Ukraine, especially its southern and eastern regions, will entail perpetual enmity?

    Aside from this contradiction, I agree with most of what you said about co-opting the human capital and stopping with the gibs. I would literally do away with immigration enforcement with Ukraine and be vocal about the change, and hand out citizenship at will. Attracting workers of average IQ is no less important than attracting the cognitive elite with Russia’s substantial higher wages in research and other intelligence-demanding jobs, which is what you propose. The Kremlin appears to be intimidated by the opinion of its Near Abroad if it abolishes the border with Ukraine and denies this special treatment to them. I’m sure Ukrainians have less of a hurdle when migrating to Russia, it’s a kind of unofficial policy, but this is done in the dark, not telegraphed. It’s a very Russian thing. There has to be transparency, the feelings of non-Slavs be damned.

    Recognising the republics in Donbass can lead to the rest of Ukraine joining NATO and the EU after being convinced by the FUKUS to abandon Crimea, so it’s not going to happen. The negative being what you said: it’s a constant black PR on Russia. It’s a lose-lose situation.

    • Replies: @AP

    Japan submitted to the US after losing militarily and it’s now pro-American and serves as a military outpost because “winning” works, but Russia winning in Ukraine, especially its southern and eastern regions, will entail perpetual enmity?
     
    Did Poland become friendly towards Russia and Germany, who won? Was Ireland friendly to Britain, who won?
    , @Mr. XYZ
    You know, this is actually an interesting idea--specifically having Russia open its borders and let any Ukrainian who wants to move there to do so. It would also help Ukraine's current leadership by getting rid of a lot of pro-Russian people in Ukraine.

    I seem to recall that Mr. Hack previously proposed something similar to this--at least if I remember correctly. Specifically, have all of the passionately pro-Russian people in Ukraine move to Russia and thus result in both of a population boom for Russia and a more politically homogeneous and unified Ukraine.

    , @Philip Owen
    The US did not treat the existence of Japan and Japanese culture with patronizing disdain, even contempt.
  22. @Dmitry

    high-profile pro-Ukrainian lobby
     
    This why it might be good to emphasise tax-free, extradition free, shelter for any rich in Ukraine accused of financial crimes (which is not so uncommon in Ukraine) by Ukraine.

    In order words, there could be a special program acting as a channel for elites, in dispute with Kiev, to repatriate assets to Russia. In this case, it will be people who are opposed to Ukraine.
    -


    Israel already achieved this (in some comic way), with some ex-Yanukovich people.

    For example, ex-Ecology and Energy and Coal Minister (for Yanukovich) Eduard Stavitsky, is now secretly become a man called "Rosenberg" who lives in Tel Aviv.*

    In running from Ukraine, though, Stavitsky has to leave behind and lose some of his watches and gold bars in Ukraine (which must be sad for him).

    In Karlin's 31 step program, perhaps there could utilize special forces units, to help repatriate moveable assets of such kinds of people to Russia.

    -
    *

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvUpe--kZ6Q

    In running from Ukraine, though, Stavitsky has to leave behind and lose some of his watches and gold bars in Ukraine (which must be sad for him).

    In Karlin’s 31 step program, perhaps there could utilize special forces units, to help repatriate moveable assets of such kinds of people to Russia.

    This kind of lost loot of Stavitsky, definitely worthy for a special forces mission – even if transfer fee for such people was only 10% or 20%.

  23. @Joach
    Japan submitted to the US after losing militarily and it's now pro-American and serves as a military outpost because "winning" works, but Russia winning in Ukraine, especially its southern and eastern regions, will entail perpetual enmity?

    Aside from this contradiction, I agree with most of what you said about co-opting the human capital and stopping with the gibs. I would literally do away with immigration enforcement with Ukraine and be vocal about the change, and hand out citizenship at will. Attracting workers of average IQ is no less important than attracting the cognitive elite with Russia's substantial higher wages in research and other intelligence-demanding jobs, which is what you propose. The Kremlin appears to be intimidated by the opinion of its Near Abroad if it abolishes the border with Ukraine and denies this special treatment to them. I'm sure Ukrainians have less of a hurdle when migrating to Russia, it's a kind of unofficial policy, but this is done in the dark, not telegraphed. It's a very Russian thing. There has to be transparency, the feelings of non-Slavs be damned.

    Recognising the republics in Donbass can lead to the rest of Ukraine joining NATO and the EU after being convinced by the FUKUS to abandon Crimea, so it's not going to happen. The negative being what you said: it's a constant black PR on Russia. It's a lose-lose situation.

    Japan submitted to the US after losing militarily and it’s now pro-American and serves as a military outpost because “winning” works, but Russia winning in Ukraine, especially its southern and eastern regions, will entail perpetual enmity?

    Did Poland become friendly towards Russia and Germany, who won? Was Ireland friendly to Britain, who won?

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Well, Poland did rely on Russian/Soviet military protection for almost half a century after 1945 in order to ensure that (West) Germany wouldn't be able to reclaim its lost territories in the East.

    As for Germany, its World War II form was too brutal to win a lot of friends in Poland. Had Germany won World War I and treated countries such as Poland as genuine partners instead of vassals, though, then the Mitteleuropa idea might have gotten a lot of fans in countries such as Poland.

    As for Ireland, if it wasn't for World War I, it's possible that Home Rule would have passed there and been successful. I seem to recall that World War I delayed Irish Home Rule and thus paved the way for Irish independence (cracking down on the Easter Uprising didn't help, though). In such a scenario, even if Ireland would've ultimately become independent, it could've been much friendlier towards Britain than it was in real life.
    , @Joach
    The English hegemony is a bad counter-example. The English, through military victory, diplomacy and blackmail, eventually incorporated other lands into their own 'federation' with devolved parliaments, and Great Britain was born. Wales and Scotland, but also a piece of Ireland was severed: Northern Ireland.

    The winner has to be cool and provide decent living standard for the people who come under its rule, and treat them well. Naturally, local elites have to be brought into the fold and hostile ones disbanded, at least for a time.

    Commonality, and here the Ukrainians fit the bill very well, also helps. If they resemble you, speak your language and share your religion, you can pull a Bismarck.

    , @Marcus
    Hilariously they submitted fervently to the West that betrayed them in 1939 and 1940. I think Poles are still one of the most pro-American countries.
  24. @Haxo Angmark
    why not "39 Steps"?

    anyway, to celebrate Karlin's brilliant plan, which is sure to work, here is a pretty bad performance of Tchaikovsky's pretty bad Symphony #2, a.k.a., "Little Russia":

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=CRGK4cv0k9c

    von Karajan .. such a pity ..

    Say what you like about Rattle, but on balance I much preferred him.

  25. @AP

    Japan submitted to the US after losing militarily and it’s now pro-American and serves as a military outpost because “winning” works, but Russia winning in Ukraine, especially its southern and eastern regions, will entail perpetual enmity?
     
    Did Poland become friendly towards Russia and Germany, who won? Was Ireland friendly to Britain, who won?

    Well, Poland did rely on Russian/Soviet military protection for almost half a century after 1945 in order to ensure that (West) Germany wouldn’t be able to reclaim its lost territories in the East.

    As for Germany, its World War II form was too brutal to win a lot of friends in Poland. Had Germany won World War I and treated countries such as Poland as genuine partners instead of vassals, though, then the Mitteleuropa idea might have gotten a lot of fans in countries such as Poland.

    As for Ireland, if it wasn’t for World War I, it’s possible that Home Rule would have passed there and been successful. I seem to recall that World War I delayed Irish Home Rule and thus paved the way for Irish independence (cracking down on the Easter Uprising didn’t help, though). In such a scenario, even if Ireland would’ve ultimately become independent, it could’ve been much friendlier towards Britain than it was in real life.

  26. @Joach
    Japan submitted to the US after losing militarily and it's now pro-American and serves as a military outpost because "winning" works, but Russia winning in Ukraine, especially its southern and eastern regions, will entail perpetual enmity?

    Aside from this contradiction, I agree with most of what you said about co-opting the human capital and stopping with the gibs. I would literally do away with immigration enforcement with Ukraine and be vocal about the change, and hand out citizenship at will. Attracting workers of average IQ is no less important than attracting the cognitive elite with Russia's substantial higher wages in research and other intelligence-demanding jobs, which is what you propose. The Kremlin appears to be intimidated by the opinion of its Near Abroad if it abolishes the border with Ukraine and denies this special treatment to them. I'm sure Ukrainians have less of a hurdle when migrating to Russia, it's a kind of unofficial policy, but this is done in the dark, not telegraphed. It's a very Russian thing. There has to be transparency, the feelings of non-Slavs be damned.

    Recognising the republics in Donbass can lead to the rest of Ukraine joining NATO and the EU after being convinced by the FUKUS to abandon Crimea, so it's not going to happen. The negative being what you said: it's a constant black PR on Russia. It's a lose-lose situation.

    You know, this is actually an interesting idea–specifically having Russia open its borders and let any Ukrainian who wants to move there to do so. It would also help Ukraine’s current leadership by getting rid of a lot of pro-Russian people in Ukraine.

    I seem to recall that Mr. Hack previously proposed something similar to this–at least if I remember correctly. Specifically, have all of the passionately pro-Russian people in Ukraine move to Russia and thus result in both of a population boom for Russia and a more politically homogeneous and unified Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    I never suggested this, but it makes some sense. I don't know if the Putler government is still offering immigrants cash plus other goodies if they move to Russia? It looks like frogman Deperdieu's honeymoon period in Russia has ended:

    https://themoscowtimes.com/news/gerard-depardieu-amasses-new-tax-debts-russia-media-reports-62264 :-)
  27. @Mr. XYZ
    You know, this is actually an interesting idea--specifically having Russia open its borders and let any Ukrainian who wants to move there to do so. It would also help Ukraine's current leadership by getting rid of a lot of pro-Russian people in Ukraine.

    I seem to recall that Mr. Hack previously proposed something similar to this--at least if I remember correctly. Specifically, have all of the passionately pro-Russian people in Ukraine move to Russia and thus result in both of a population boom for Russia and a more politically homogeneous and unified Ukraine.

    I never suggested this, but it makes some sense. I don’t know if the Putler government is still offering immigrants cash plus other goodies if they move to Russia? It looks like frogman Deperdieu’s honeymoon period in Russia has ended:

    https://themoscowtimes.com/news/gerard-depardieu-amasses-new-tax-debts-russia-media-reports-62264 :-)

    • Replies: @Gerard2

    I never suggested this, but it makes some sense. I don’t know if the Putler government is still offering immigrants cash plus other goodies if they move to Russia? It looks like frogman Deperdieu’s honeymoon period in Russia has ended:
     
    Amusing to see a repressed paedophile as yourself using the immature term of "Putler"
    As for the use of immigrants, even as a cluelessly informed Banderite trying to make the case for a fake nation....this is really useless by yourself. "Ukrainians" and Russians are the same people you twerp.

    Read Karlin's blog or Russia coverage and you will know how absurd it is to claim otherwise :

    A "Ukrainian" called Chepiga is accused of murdering another "Ukrainian" ( Skripal), with the whole cased being constantly linked to the case of another "Ukrainian" (Litvinenko) which itself is based on the fantasies of some Hollywood BS involving some Russian character ( who nearly always has a "Ukrainian" name)

    This follows on from another clueless Karlin post about "Fraud" in the Governors election in Primorye where the "Ukrainian" governor beat the "Ukrainian" KPRF candidate in a close and disputed election that has now been annulled.....with the "Ukrainian" Governor now being replaced by another "Ukrainian" governor who was running Amur and also Sakhalin before!

    This done under the watch of a President from Saint Petersburg that has been run by 2 "Ukrainian" Governors over the last 15 years, and have their football team top of the Russian Premier League, coached by , yet again....another Ukrainian

    "Ukraine" on the other hand is run by Gruzians, Americans, Canadians, Poles, Lithuanians, Estonians, Jews , with is revolutions orchestrated bu the US but using an Afghan guy as a figurehead....with it's richest man in the country being a Muslim...and is currently experiencing a collapsed economy, crime, decay, extreme health and infrastructure problems and extreme stupidity
  28. Just to lend some more perspective:

    Annual per capita GDP in Russia, in purchasing power parity terms, is about US$28,000. By comparison, New Zealand, South Korea, and Italy are at about $38,000.

    Annual per capita GDP in Ukraine, in purchasing power parity terms, is about US$8,600. By comparison, Jamaica is at approximately $ 8,900 and Laos is at $7,400.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

    There is no comparison between the two countries, economically speaking, from a wage earning individual’s perspective.

    Compared to China attracting the meritocratic cream of Taiwan’s talent, it should be a cinch for Russia to get Ukraine’s best and brightest. Government pensioners and employees in Crimea got a greater than 2x raise when Russia took over Crimea. The local popular support for the move was solid.

    • Replies: @AP

    There is no comparison between the two countries, economically speaking, from a wage earning individual’s perspective.
     
    It depends on the job. Does a top manager at a software company make 4 times more in cost-of-living adjusted income in Russia than he does in Ukraine? Doubtful.

    Also, annual per capita GDP PPP is not the same as wages.

    Here are wages in Europe:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

    Net average monthly salary (adjusted for living costs in PPP):

    Russia: $1,331
    Ukraine: $ 954

    Belarus bets Russia, with $1,422.

    Georgia: $900
    Armenia: $846
    Moldova: $620

    ::::::::::::

    Even when not adjusting for cost of living, Russian wages are about twice those of Ukraine, not over 3 times higher as is Russia's per capita GDP PPP. It's about the same as the difference between wages in Portugal vs. Spain.

    In contrast, Poland's wages are almost 4 times higher than wages in Ukraine when not adjusting for cost of living.
  29. Bonus: Ukrainian nationalist songs are pretty groovy.

    Glad to hear that you like this type of fare, Anatoly. Here’s a whole collection of such heartwarming melodies. The first one is the ‘Zaporozhian March’, being played as the background in the Polish film ‘Between Fire and Sword’. The battle scene is of the Polsh debacle at ‘Zhovti Vodi’. Sorry, I couldn’t find one of the equally devastating battle at ‘Konotop’ for the Muscovites.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Actually the title of the Polish film is "With Fire and Sword." It is based
    on the first volume of what is known in Poland as The Trilogy penned
    in the 1880s by Henryk Sienkiewicz, a Polish Nobelist known in the
    West primarily for the novel Quo Vadis.

    By the way, the movie "With Fire and Sword" also has a beautiful ballad
    "Dumka na Dwa Serca" which you can see on YouTube in both Polish
    and Russian (or Ukrainian?) versions.
    , @Anon

    Ukrainian nationalist songs are pretty groovy
     
    I have a hard time calling Cossack folk songs "Ukrainian nationalist"...
    , @Mikhail
    The Kuban Cossack choir rocks.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kuban+cossacks+choir
  30. @PiltdownMan
    Just to lend some more perspective:

    Annual per capita GDP in Russia, in purchasing power parity terms, is about US$28,000. By comparison, New Zealand, South Korea, and Italy are at about $38,000.

    Annual per capita GDP in Ukraine, in purchasing power parity terms, is about US$8,600. By comparison, Jamaica is at approximately $ 8,900 and Laos is at $7,400.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

    There is no comparison between the two countries, economically speaking, from a wage earning individual's perspective.

    Compared to China attracting the meritocratic cream of Taiwan's talent, it should be a cinch for Russia to get Ukraine's best and brightest. Government pensioners and employees in Crimea got a greater than 2x raise when Russia took over Crimea. The local popular support for the move was solid.

    There is no comparison between the two countries, economically speaking, from a wage earning individual’s perspective.

    It depends on the job. Does a top manager at a software company make 4 times more in cost-of-living adjusted income in Russia than he does in Ukraine? Doubtful.

    Also, annual per capita GDP PPP is not the same as wages.

    Here are wages in Europe:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

    Net average monthly salary (adjusted for living costs in PPP):

    Russia: $1,331
    Ukraine: $ 954

    Belarus bets Russia, with $1,422.

    Georgia: $900
    Armenia: $846
    Moldova: $620

    ::::::::::::

    Even when not adjusting for cost of living, Russian wages are about twice those of Ukraine, not over 3 times higher as is Russia’s per capita GDP PPP. It’s about the same as the difference between wages in Portugal vs. Spain.

    In contrast, Poland’s wages are almost 4 times higher than wages in Ukraine when not adjusting for cost of living.

    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    That is what GDP PPP is used for and not nominal. PPP takes how cheap the good and services are into consideration. So PPP comparison is better then wage comparison.

    Russia has better safety net and more opportunities due to having a higher GDP PPP per capita. Yes Poland can and does compete with Russia in PPP per capita but the competition is not over and we will see where everyone stands in 10 years, 20 years and etc. Also Russia is a much bigger economy than Poland and I would say set up better to compete in this regard. As in Russians can absorb more people without strain then the Poles and EU.
  31. Re: “making Russian culture so majestic and attractive…”

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations. That’s easy to see: no country outside of Europe speaks
    German or Russian, and at least in the U.S. the study of German or Russian
    is in severe decline. Secondly, both Germany and Russia have a history of FORCING
    their neighbors to learn their useless languages (compared to English or Spanish),
    in Russia’s case as recently as 1989. Even Spain and Portugal, which never
    created great civilizations, spread their beautiful languages (and cultures) practically
    effortlessly throughout Latin America and even in Africa.

    I would judge Germany more harshly than Russia. Russia got stuck with the worst
    piece of real estate in Europe, far from the great centers of European civilization,
    cursed with horrible climate, and because of its unfortunate location forced to
    be part of the defensive perimeter of Europe. However, for Germany there are no
    extenuating circumstances. Germany, incl. Austria, has been blessed in every
    possible way, and yet blew it in the most spectacular way, and with Merkel at
    the helm continues its history of failure. A couple of points: Germany (with Jewish
    help) gave the world not one but two antihumanitarian philosophies of life,
    Marxism (a gift that keeps on giving) and Nazism. In the space of 40 years Germany
    became guilty not of one but two cases of genocide, in SW Africa and in Poland.
    How can one take seriously a country like Germany that still practiced slavery
    as recently as in 1945, when civilized countries outlawed slavery in the 19th century.
    One of the reasons usually given for Germany’s failure is the lack of skeptical
    tradition in German philosophy. Germany never produced people like Descartes or
    Hume who would have prevented German thinkers from going on flights of fancy
    like the anti-empirical ideologues Hegel or Marx. Parenthetically, China and India
    are two more examples of failed civilizations, and Japan was a failed civilization
    until 1945.

    By the way, I mentioned a Polish fellow who met a good-looking Russian woman
    (with Polish ancestry) in Brazil. They got married in Poland, lived in Moscow where
    she grew up for awhile but recently decided to move to a tropical paradise for mainly
    two reasons: (1) never-ending winters in Moscow, (2) soul-crushing commutes on
    the subway due to Moscow’s enormous size. She said she could see herself living
    in Poland since Poland is warmer than Moscow and closer to Italy or France but
    they are still young and thirst for adventure so why not the tropics, at least for
    awhile.

    • Replies: @Anon

    no country outside of Europe speaks German or Russian
     
    Russian is still spoken by people in Central Asia to some extent, German will give you an edge where I live. Not to mention, I heard German spoken at home when I was a child.

    Russian and German empires were land entities, whereas the English and French were maritime empires. The latter simply occupied more countries that way and the Anglos managed to become globally dominant.

    The problem with Germans is they lost their balls in WWII, and Germany and Austria is getting increasingly more dark skinned. But Austria for instance is a really good place to live.
    , @Epigon

    Even Spain and Portugal, which never created great civilizations
     
    It would be highly amusing to read through your account of what constitutes a great civilization, and then going through absolute shitshow that British Empire and USA had been in civilizational terms.

    PS: The "failed" Germany contributed more to scientific and technological progress of world in short 40 years from unification to WW1 than the rest of world combined.
    , @Hyperborean
    I see why you are called 'Anon'.
    , @Pericles
    After all, what did Germany or Russia ever give world culture? America gave us twerking.
    , @Polish Perspective
    Germany has unambiguously contributed far more to world civilisation than most countries in this world. I would rank them highest in continental Europe. Only Anglos have had greater world impact - as evidenced by the fact that practically all Anglo offshoots are extremely impressive countries and English continues to be the lingua franca of science, business and most international debates. Hence why I write this in English.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German and he was the driving force. Nazism is a better slur against them. It was basically Germanic supremacism, though I ultimately view it in the same vein as I view 'manifest destiny' in the US. Every expanding state needs its moralising ideology, if for no other reason than propaganda for audiences at home and abroad.

    I also happen to be most fond of Germanic philiosophy. The French are clowns. Anglos are impressive but they are too liberal. Germans have a darker, more pessimistic outlook which I tend to like. They also have an outsized proportion of the best conservative minds historically speaking.

    As for them not spreading their language, that's because they were boxed in. If you were at the Western edge of Europe (Iberia, France, UK) you had the oceans to think about and that naturally led to colonial settlements. If you were Germany with people from all sides hemming you in, you naturally focused more on land warfare and not getting done in. Foreign adventures in far-away lands was the last thing on your mind.

    Did they fail in the wars? Yes. Still impressive people.

    , @utu
    Your comments often evoke vicarious embarrassment and I am sure not only in me.
    , @reiner Tor

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations.
     
    I guess you don’t listen to music other than pop music, nor do you read that much high literature.
  32. @Mr. Hack

    Bonus: Ukrainian nationalist songs are pretty groovy.
     
    Glad to hear that you like this type of fare, Anatoly. Here's a whole collection of such heartwarming melodies. The first one is the 'Zaporozhian March', being played as the background in the Polish film 'Between Fire and Sword'. The battle scene is of the Polsh debacle at 'Zhovti Vodi'. Sorry, I couldn't find one of the equally devastating battle at 'Konotop' for the Muscovites.

    https://youtu.be/rlhpi-WllkQ?list=PLezU15tj54ze87jKPvMZukfS64enSutpx&t=6

    Actually the title of the Polish film is “With Fire and Sword.” It is based
    on the first volume of what is known in Poland as The Trilogy penned
    in the 1880s by Henryk Sienkiewicz, a Polish Nobelist known in the
    West primarily for the novel Quo Vadis.

    By the way, the movie “With Fire and Sword” also has a beautiful ballad
    “Dumka na Dwa Serca” which you can see on YouTube in both Polish
    and Russian (or Ukrainian?) versions.

  33. @AP

    Japan submitted to the US after losing militarily and it’s now pro-American and serves as a military outpost because “winning” works, but Russia winning in Ukraine, especially its southern and eastern regions, will entail perpetual enmity?
     
    Did Poland become friendly towards Russia and Germany, who won? Was Ireland friendly to Britain, who won?

    The English hegemony is a bad counter-example. The English, through military victory, diplomacy and blackmail, eventually incorporated other lands into their own ‘federation’ with devolved parliaments, and Great Britain was born. Wales and Scotland, but also a piece of Ireland was severed: Northern Ireland.

    The winner has to be cool and provide decent living standard for the people who come under its rule, and treat them well. Naturally, local elites have to be brought into the fold and hostile ones disbanded, at least for a time.

    Commonality, and here the Ukrainians fit the bill very well, also helps. If they resemble you, speak your language and share your religion, you can pull a Bismarck.

  34. @Mr. Hack

    Anyhow, forget about Ukraine being 30% cheaper (or whatever) than Russia. With such a gap, Russia can easily attract most of Ukraine’s remaining elite researchers wholesale, no matter how svidomy they are.
     
    Why opt for a 30% raise in Russia when you can get an 500% to 1,000% raise somewhere in the West?

    Your idea to partly adopt Ukrainian svidomism and weaponize it for Russian national purposes is about the only thing that makes any sense here. I've thought about this myself on several occasions. Don't fight it, go with it. You could reinvent both Russian and Ukrainian svidomism where both branches of Rus come out ahead! :-)

    the barriers for migration to the west for Ukrainians (and Russians as well) are large.

    1. Getting a Visa – a lot of reluctance to admit immigrants (this is sidestepped by the bogus refugees who live in a shadow world – but what self respecting scientist or engineer wants to clean toilets)

    2. Getting a job – 10 to 20% youth unemployment in some countries – for a non native convincing a prestige employer is much harder – Big home bias. Big restrictions now on companies sponsoring specialists from the third world (In the UK they need to earn twice the average salary to get a visa, hence Ukrainian immigrants would no longer be cheap)

    3. Qualifications – who knows how good the university of Kharkov is? – did said engineer buy their diploma?

    4. Language barrier – still exists, even if they vaguely understand English, can they speak German or French

    I do not believe that any of these barriers would exist for a Ukrainian scientist moving to Russia
    They already speak the language, Russians know about Ukrainian qualifications and universities, strong cultural similarities (like a Swede moving to Denmark) and as far as I know no visa barriers.

    win – win for all (my dedushka was an example)

  35. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:

    How much of that human capital is there to siphon out from Ukraine?

    The country has not conducted a population census for 16 years, and some researchers I hear think there are 35 million people in Ukraine now.

    Ukraine is depopulating very very fast, as Ukrainians choose life outside Ukraine.

    I am pretty certain that at one point in near future, the majority of human capital will be very low and completely useless.

  36. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon 2
    Re: "making Russian culture so majestic and attractive..."

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations. That's easy to see: no country outside of Europe speaks
    German or Russian, and at least in the U.S. the study of German or Russian
    is in severe decline. Secondly, both Germany and Russia have a history of FORCING
    their neighbors to learn their useless languages (compared to English or Spanish),
    in Russia's case as recently as 1989. Even Spain and Portugal, which never
    created great civilizations, spread their beautiful languages (and cultures) practically
    effortlessly throughout Latin America and even in Africa.

    I would judge Germany more harshly than Russia. Russia got stuck with the worst
    piece of real estate in Europe, far from the great centers of European civilization,
    cursed with horrible climate, and because of its unfortunate location forced to
    be part of the defensive perimeter of Europe. However, for Germany there are no
    extenuating circumstances. Germany, incl. Austria, has been blessed in every
    possible way, and yet blew it in the most spectacular way, and with Merkel at
    the helm continues its history of failure. A couple of points: Germany (with Jewish
    help) gave the world not one but two antihumanitarian philosophies of life,
    Marxism (a gift that keeps on giving) and Nazism. In the space of 40 years Germany
    became guilty not of one but two cases of genocide, in SW Africa and in Poland.
    How can one take seriously a country like Germany that still practiced slavery
    as recently as in 1945, when civilized countries outlawed slavery in the 19th century.
    One of the reasons usually given for Germany's failure is the lack of skeptical
    tradition in German philosophy. Germany never produced people like Descartes or
    Hume who would have prevented German thinkers from going on flights of fancy
    like the anti-empirical ideologues Hegel or Marx. Parenthetically, China and India
    are two more examples of failed civilizations, and Japan was a failed civilization
    until 1945.

    By the way, I mentioned a Polish fellow who met a good-looking Russian woman
    (with Polish ancestry) in Brazil. They got married in Poland, lived in Moscow where
    she grew up for awhile but recently decided to move to a tropical paradise for mainly
    two reasons: (1) never-ending winters in Moscow, (2) soul-crushing commutes on
    the subway due to Moscow's enormous size. She said she could see herself living
    in Poland since Poland is warmer than Moscow and closer to Italy or France but
    they are still young and thirst for adventure so why not the tropics, at least for
    awhile.

    no country outside of Europe speaks German or Russian

    Russian is still spoken by people in Central Asia to some extent, German will give you an edge where I live. Not to mention, I heard German spoken at home when I was a child.

    Russian and German empires were land entities, whereas the English and French were maritime empires. The latter simply occupied more countries that way and the Anglos managed to become globally dominant.

    The problem with Germans is they lost their balls in WWII, and Germany and Austria is getting increasingly more dark skinned. But Austria for instance is a really good place to live.

  37. @Mr. Hack

    Bonus: Ukrainian nationalist songs are pretty groovy.
     
    Glad to hear that you like this type of fare, Anatoly. Here's a whole collection of such heartwarming melodies. The first one is the 'Zaporozhian March', being played as the background in the Polish film 'Between Fire and Sword'. The battle scene is of the Polsh debacle at 'Zhovti Vodi'. Sorry, I couldn't find one of the equally devastating battle at 'Konotop' for the Muscovites.

    https://youtu.be/rlhpi-WllkQ?list=PLezU15tj54ze87jKPvMZukfS64enSutpx&t=6

    Ukrainian nationalist songs are pretty groovy

    I have a hard time calling Cossack folk songs “Ukrainian nationalist”…

  38. I like Irish Republican songs too

  39. @Anon 2
    Re: "making Russian culture so majestic and attractive..."

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations. That's easy to see: no country outside of Europe speaks
    German or Russian, and at least in the U.S. the study of German or Russian
    is in severe decline. Secondly, both Germany and Russia have a history of FORCING
    their neighbors to learn their useless languages (compared to English or Spanish),
    in Russia's case as recently as 1989. Even Spain and Portugal, which never
    created great civilizations, spread their beautiful languages (and cultures) practically
    effortlessly throughout Latin America and even in Africa.

    I would judge Germany more harshly than Russia. Russia got stuck with the worst
    piece of real estate in Europe, far from the great centers of European civilization,
    cursed with horrible climate, and because of its unfortunate location forced to
    be part of the defensive perimeter of Europe. However, for Germany there are no
    extenuating circumstances. Germany, incl. Austria, has been blessed in every
    possible way, and yet blew it in the most spectacular way, and with Merkel at
    the helm continues its history of failure. A couple of points: Germany (with Jewish
    help) gave the world not one but two antihumanitarian philosophies of life,
    Marxism (a gift that keeps on giving) and Nazism. In the space of 40 years Germany
    became guilty not of one but two cases of genocide, in SW Africa and in Poland.
    How can one take seriously a country like Germany that still practiced slavery
    as recently as in 1945, when civilized countries outlawed slavery in the 19th century.
    One of the reasons usually given for Germany's failure is the lack of skeptical
    tradition in German philosophy. Germany never produced people like Descartes or
    Hume who would have prevented German thinkers from going on flights of fancy
    like the anti-empirical ideologues Hegel or Marx. Parenthetically, China and India
    are two more examples of failed civilizations, and Japan was a failed civilization
    until 1945.

    By the way, I mentioned a Polish fellow who met a good-looking Russian woman
    (with Polish ancestry) in Brazil. They got married in Poland, lived in Moscow where
    she grew up for awhile but recently decided to move to a tropical paradise for mainly
    two reasons: (1) never-ending winters in Moscow, (2) soul-crushing commutes on
    the subway due to Moscow's enormous size. She said she could see herself living
    in Poland since Poland is warmer than Moscow and closer to Italy or France but
    they are still young and thirst for adventure so why not the tropics, at least for
    awhile.

    Even Spain and Portugal, which never created great civilizations

    It would be highly amusing to read through your account of what constitutes a great civilization, and then going through absolute shitshow that British Empire and USA had been in civilizational terms.

    PS: The “failed” Germany contributed more to scientific and technological progress of world in short 40 years from unification to WW1 than the rest of world combined.

    • Replies: @DFH


    PS: The “failed” Germany contributed more to scientific and technological progress of world in short 40 years from unification to WW1 than the rest of world combined.
     
    Thanks, Jews!
  40. @Mr. XYZ
    Anatoly, have you ever considered the possibility that, if your plan actually works, it could also backfire in the sense that a high-profile pro-Ukrainian lobby could develop in Russia similar to, say, the Armenian lobby in Russia or the Israel lobby in the U.S.? For instance, I could imagine these elite Ukrainians trying to push Russia to give up Crimea and the Donbass while also pushing Russia to join the E.U. in order to strengthen the Slavic and White presence in the E.U.

    Also, as a side note, I have a question both of you and for everyone else here: Let's say that there would have been no World War II (for instance, as a result of Britain and France standing firm over the Sudetenland in 1938 and thus causing some German generals to overthrow Hitler and the Nazis; without Hitler, there is no World War II) and that Poland would have kept the Kresy (its Ukrainian-majority and Belarusian-majority territories, in addition to Lvov and Vilnius). In such a scenario, Poland would have escaped Communism and would have thus likely developed an Italian or Spanish standard of living by the early 21st century. In such a scenario--assuming that the Soviet Union still collapses on schedule near the end of the 20th century--is Ukraine likely to lean West or East? After all, while Ukraine would have been deprived of its most pro-Western areas (which would have remained a part of Poland in this scenario), Poland would have also been much richer in this scenario--something which could potentially attract even nominally pro-Russian Ukrainians in eastern and southern Ukraine. After all, as you wrote, money can certainly trump nationalism!

    Anyway, any thoughts on this?

    A Ukrainian ethnic lobby in Russia is unlikely in my opinion. Ukrainians who move to Russia assimilate pretty quickly (like my grandpa). Their children speak Russian and tend to identify as Russian. There is a lot of intermarriage (like my grandparents) and not that much nostalgia, and certainly no love for the extreme Ukrop nationalists. The ukrop super nationalists are unlikely to move to Russia for economic reasons, they are more likely to be cleaning toilets in Poland

    A western example is of people of Irish heritage in England. Their children are accepted as English, speak with English regional accents and are loyal to Britain, even if a few of them do play for the Irish Republic football team. There is a limited Irish lobby in England (the IRA did not help). This is in contrast to Irish Americans for whom anglophobia is a cultural sacrosanct.

    Th contrast with the Armenians is stark, even after a few generations Armenians identify with their ancestral homeland which they see as being perpetually under threat. The cultural differences are greater than with Ukrainians but there are some mixed marriages

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Identification aside, Armenians are probably greater Russophiles than Russians themselves, much like Serbs.
    , @LondonBob
    Irish have privileged migration and voting rights in Britain, this has been a disaster. Ethnic Irish are as influential as Jews in the creation of the corrosive left in Britain, as well as forming an underclass. Forget the Ukrainians, leave them alone and look after your own people.
    , @Anon

    Ukrainians who move to Russia assimilate pretty quickly (like my grandpa).
     
    Pretty much the same experience here, my mother has a Ukrainian maiden name, and nobody would even call her Ukrainian.
  41. @Aslangeo
    A Ukrainian ethnic lobby in Russia is unlikely in my opinion. Ukrainians who move to Russia assimilate pretty quickly (like my grandpa). Their children speak Russian and tend to identify as Russian. There is a lot of intermarriage (like my grandparents) and not that much nostalgia, and certainly no love for the extreme Ukrop nationalists. The ukrop super nationalists are unlikely to move to Russia for economic reasons, they are more likely to be cleaning toilets in Poland

    A western example is of people of Irish heritage in England. Their children are accepted as English, speak with English regional accents and are loyal to Britain, even if a few of them do play for the Irish Republic football team. There is a limited Irish lobby in England (the IRA did not help). This is in contrast to Irish Americans for whom anglophobia is a cultural sacrosanct.

    Th contrast with the Armenians is stark, even after a few generations Armenians identify with their ancestral homeland which they see as being perpetually under threat. The cultural differences are greater than with Ukrainians but there are some mixed marriages

    Identification aside, Armenians are probably greater Russophiles than Russians themselves, much like Serbs.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    If it is like Serbs, then they are cynical, opportunistic "Russophiles" at best, who value Russia only for the geopolitical backing and perceived profit.
    In other words, most of modern day Serbs are Serbs-in-name-only, being a particularly toxic breed of Yugoslavs and riddled with inferiority complex towards West, shallow materialism and one-sided love for West.
    There is a small core of Russophillic Serbs, in addition to Sovietophillic (due to perceived Antifascism, Socialist history and fight against Axis) grouping that often gets bundled together.

    Several million Serbs happily live in "eternal, historical enemy" states like USA, UK, Germany and Austria, in addition to many "Serbs" across former Yugoslavia.
  42. While certain nationalists, including on this blog, still entertain fantasies about invading the Ukraine and ruling it like a Reichskommissariat, that would be worse than just immoral – it would almost certainly fail, since it buys into the narrative that Ukrainians can only become Russians at the point of a gun.

    Anatoly, you have a nasty habit of creating straw men. The fact that you need to misrepresent my idea shows how weak your reasoning is.

    The point of invading the Ukraine is establishing control of its territory and accelerating the natural, ongoing process of Ukrainian decline. Russia may or may not be a “declining medium power”, but the Ukraine is sure a declining banana republic, unable to provide basic services like hot water for its citizens.

    The war is going to make it 10 times worse. Historically, war functioned as a powerful catalyst for change. The Ukraine is currently in the process of dying on its own, but my idea is to introduce a catalyst to it, so that we don’t have to wait until 2050 for them to reach 15M pop. :)

    Once we have control of the territory, there is a number of things we could do with it. For example, if the goal is draining the Ukraine of its “smart faction” (whatever that means in the Ukraine), this will be easier to do once there is People’s republic in Kiev, and most connections to the West are severed due to Western sanctions. The size of Russia’s wages becomes irrelevant in this scenario – the mere fact that Russia has wages becomes an attraction for Ukrainian migrants.

    I am no military expert, but a whole bunch of people seem to believe that Russia’s security is jeopardised by a hostile entity in our soft Ukrainian underbelly. Eliminating the entity and securing the underbelly to me seems like a natural thing to do. Absorbing the Ukraine’s population (if that is what we wish to do) will only be made easier by dislocations produced by war.

    • Replies: @Anon

    The point of invading the Ukraine is establishing control of its territory and accelerating the natural, ongoing process of Ukrainian decline. Russia may or may not be a “declining medium power”, but the Ukraine is sure a declining banana republic, unable to provide basic services like hot water for its citizens.
     
    Ukraine manages its decline very well without full scale Russian occupation. Also, occupation would mean Russia would have to provide hot water to Ukrainians.

    But not only that, Russia would have to deal with an entire scope of Ukraine's problems. Not to mention, there would be people, who would be openly hostile to Russian occupation. They would resent Russia for not allowing them into Europe and other nonsense. Russia would have to deal with rabid svidomites, and perhaps even underground resistance.

    Ain't nobody got time for that...
    , @Mr. Hack
    Last week I read your detailed plans regarding the destructi0n of Israel, now this week it's the destruction and occupation of all of Ukraine. Why not really impress us and explain how Russia needs to invade and destroy the real 'devil' that's behind it all, the US?

    You're the living example of why Russia is perceived as the final refuge of kooks and freaks, where everything can be settled with a bomb or a bullet (or a shoe, as in your case). :-(

    https://youtu.be/Bfnxj9U_aVY
  43. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:

    The Russian Empire were winners, so much so that there were strong Russophile movements in Galicia, and in far-off Bohemia (Masaryk wanted to introduce Russian language instructions in Czech schools – understandably vetoed by the Austrian authorities).

    A lot of this had to do with the fact that Czech itself was suppressed, and for that matter not developed. The Czechs looked to Russia as a large, independent Slavic state, and to Russian language is a language that was superior to theirs.

    Russian is still superior to Czech by the way…

    In Halychyna, the locals were even more primitive and looked to Russia for ooga booga, muh Orthodoxy reasons.

    Today only linguists realise Russia’s influence upon the Czechs, and that influence is not going to repeat itself unless a new Dostoyevsky rises. And Halychyna has literally gone bonkers…

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    According to what someone had communicated to me, Solzhenitsyn said that Russia missed a golden opportunity by not taking Galicia after Napoloen's defeat.
  44. @Yevardian
    Identification aside, Armenians are probably greater Russophiles than Russians themselves, much like Serbs.

    If it is like Serbs, then they are cynical, opportunistic “Russophiles” at best, who value Russia only for the geopolitical backing and perceived profit.
    In other words, most of modern day Serbs are Serbs-in-name-only, being a particularly toxic breed of Yugoslavs and riddled with inferiority complex towards West, shallow materialism and one-sided love for West.
    There is a small core of Russophillic Serbs, in addition to Sovietophillic (due to perceived Antifascism, Socialist history and fight against Axis) grouping that often gets bundled together.

    Several million Serbs happily live in “eternal, historical enemy” states like USA, UK, Germany and Austria, in addition to many “Serbs” across former Yugoslavia.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Serbs can be of either a sovok (Titoist) or anti-sovok mindset, with some others taking a more neutral view between these two categories.
    , @Chet Bradley

    If it is like Serbs, then they are cynical, opportunistic “Russophiles” at best, who value Russia only for the geopolitical backing and perceived profit.
     
    There are Serbs like that; those are called traitors. Those would sell their neighbors to gain favors with their Western masters.

    In other words, most of modern day Serbs are Serbs-in-name-only, being a particularly toxic breed of Yugoslavs and riddled with inferiority complex towards West, shallow materialism and one-sided love for West.
     
    Most? Care to provide a percent (round to the nearest 10) and your sources, please. Otherwise it's just slander. Same type of idiots with inferiority complex who watch reality shows here are the idiots who watch reality shows in Serbia. Human stupidity is universal.

    There is a small core of Russophillic Serbs, in addition to Sovietophillic (due to perceived Antifascism, Socialist history and fight against Axis) grouping that often gets bundled together.
     
    Small? Care to provide a percent (round to the nearest 10) and your sources, please.

    Serbs' attitudes towards Russians transcend ideology. Russians are not foreigners in Serbia; they are "ours" (наши). It was like that in 12th century (based on historical sources), and it is like that today.

    Several million Serbs happily live in “eternal, historical enemy” states like USA, UK, Germany and Austria, in addition to many “Serbs” across former Yugoslavia.
     
    There are no "eternal, historical enemies"; that's retard talk. People have to make a living. Despite 20th century history, Germans are pretty cool. Not the neutered version of today, of course, but the August Von Mackensen types. Also, best classical music. If I had to pick one source of classical music to listen exclusively for the rest of my life I would pick the German-speaking composers without a second thought.
  45. @Epigon

    Even Spain and Portugal, which never created great civilizations
     
    It would be highly amusing to read through your account of what constitutes a great civilization, and then going through absolute shitshow that British Empire and USA had been in civilizational terms.

    PS: The "failed" Germany contributed more to scientific and technological progress of world in short 40 years from unification to WW1 than the rest of world combined.

    PS: The “failed” Germany contributed more to scientific and technological progress of world in short 40 years from unification to WW1 than the rest of world combined.

    Thanks, Jews!

    • Replies: @Patricus
    Jews probably had little to do with German scientific and technological advances. They were too small a minority. Germans continued mastery after the Jews were all gone.

    There is something about German culture that allows them to excel in these things. A few score professors, or even hundreds, do not make a manufacturing power. It requires infrastructure and certain widespread attitudes which are found in Germany.
  46. @Aslangeo
    A Ukrainian ethnic lobby in Russia is unlikely in my opinion. Ukrainians who move to Russia assimilate pretty quickly (like my grandpa). Their children speak Russian and tend to identify as Russian. There is a lot of intermarriage (like my grandparents) and not that much nostalgia, and certainly no love for the extreme Ukrop nationalists. The ukrop super nationalists are unlikely to move to Russia for economic reasons, they are more likely to be cleaning toilets in Poland

    A western example is of people of Irish heritage in England. Their children are accepted as English, speak with English regional accents and are loyal to Britain, even if a few of them do play for the Irish Republic football team. There is a limited Irish lobby in England (the IRA did not help). This is in contrast to Irish Americans for whom anglophobia is a cultural sacrosanct.

    Th contrast with the Armenians is stark, even after a few generations Armenians identify with their ancestral homeland which they see as being perpetually under threat. The cultural differences are greater than with Ukrainians but there are some mixed marriages

    Irish have privileged migration and voting rights in Britain, this has been a disaster. Ethnic Irish are as influential as Jews in the creation of the corrosive left in Britain, as well as forming an underclass. Forget the Ukrainians, leave them alone and look after your own people.

    • Replies: @DFH

    as influential as Jews in the creation of the corrosive left in Britain
     
    They are bad, but not even close to Jews.
    Jews are responsible for creating the SWP (and all of its offshoots), Militant, passing the Race Relations Act, founding the most important anti-Racism think tank the Runnymede trust, the racial and immigration policies of New Labour. This is putting aside the huge power they exert through fundraising to Labour (in the past) and the Conservaties. Not to mention that Irish affinity and loyalty to Ireland (in England certainly) does not even approach Jewish affinity and loyalty to Israel and the power of Zionist lobbying groups.
  47. @Anon 2
    Re: "making Russian culture so majestic and attractive..."

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations. That's easy to see: no country outside of Europe speaks
    German or Russian, and at least in the U.S. the study of German or Russian
    is in severe decline. Secondly, both Germany and Russia have a history of FORCING
    their neighbors to learn their useless languages (compared to English or Spanish),
    in Russia's case as recently as 1989. Even Spain and Portugal, which never
    created great civilizations, spread their beautiful languages (and cultures) practically
    effortlessly throughout Latin America and even in Africa.

    I would judge Germany more harshly than Russia. Russia got stuck with the worst
    piece of real estate in Europe, far from the great centers of European civilization,
    cursed with horrible climate, and because of its unfortunate location forced to
    be part of the defensive perimeter of Europe. However, for Germany there are no
    extenuating circumstances. Germany, incl. Austria, has been blessed in every
    possible way, and yet blew it in the most spectacular way, and with Merkel at
    the helm continues its history of failure. A couple of points: Germany (with Jewish
    help) gave the world not one but two antihumanitarian philosophies of life,
    Marxism (a gift that keeps on giving) and Nazism. In the space of 40 years Germany
    became guilty not of one but two cases of genocide, in SW Africa and in Poland.
    How can one take seriously a country like Germany that still practiced slavery
    as recently as in 1945, when civilized countries outlawed slavery in the 19th century.
    One of the reasons usually given for Germany's failure is the lack of skeptical
    tradition in German philosophy. Germany never produced people like Descartes or
    Hume who would have prevented German thinkers from going on flights of fancy
    like the anti-empirical ideologues Hegel or Marx. Parenthetically, China and India
    are two more examples of failed civilizations, and Japan was a failed civilization
    until 1945.

    By the way, I mentioned a Polish fellow who met a good-looking Russian woman
    (with Polish ancestry) in Brazil. They got married in Poland, lived in Moscow where
    she grew up for awhile but recently decided to move to a tropical paradise for mainly
    two reasons: (1) never-ending winters in Moscow, (2) soul-crushing commutes on
    the subway due to Moscow's enormous size. She said she could see herself living
    in Poland since Poland is warmer than Moscow and closer to Italy or France but
    they are still young and thirst for adventure so why not the tropics, at least for
    awhile.

    I see why you are called ‘Anon’.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    OT: I doodled a bit last week, if you're curious insofar as to my non-writing stuff...

    Chibi cat

    https://i.imgur.com/JU1K1dv.png

    Face/hand experimentation

    https://i.imgur.com/G4SfS5f.png

  48. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Felix Keverich

    While certain nationalists, including on this blog, still entertain fantasies about invading the Ukraine and ruling it like a Reichskommissariat, that would be worse than just immoral – it would almost certainly fail, since it buys into the narrative that Ukrainians can only become Russians at the point of a gun.
     
    Anatoly, you have a nasty habit of creating straw men. The fact that you need to misrepresent my idea shows how weak your reasoning is.

    The point of invading the Ukraine is establishing control of its territory and accelerating the natural, ongoing process of Ukrainian decline. Russia may or may not be a "declining medium power", but the Ukraine is sure a declining banana republic, unable to provide basic services like hot water for its citizens.

    The war is going to make it 10 times worse. Historically, war functioned as a powerful catalyst for change. The Ukraine is currently in the process of dying on its own, but my idea is to introduce a catalyst to it, so that we don't have to wait until 2050 for them to reach 15M pop. :)

    Once we have control of the territory, there is a number of things we could do with it. For example, if the goal is draining the Ukraine of its "smart faction" (whatever that means in the Ukraine), this will be easier to do once there is People's republic in Kiev, and most connections to the West are severed due to Western sanctions. The size of Russia's wages becomes irrelevant in this scenario - the mere fact that Russia has wages becomes an attraction for Ukrainian migrants.

    I am no military expert, but a whole bunch of people seem to believe that Russia's security is jeopardised by a hostile entity in our soft Ukrainian underbelly. Eliminating the entity and securing the underbelly to me seems like a natural thing to do. Absorbing the Ukraine's population (if that is what we wish to do) will only be made easier by dislocations produced by war.

    The point of invading the Ukraine is establishing control of its territory and accelerating the natural, ongoing process of Ukrainian decline. Russia may or may not be a “declining medium power”, but the Ukraine is sure a declining banana republic, unable to provide basic services like hot water for its citizens.

    Ukraine manages its decline very well without full scale Russian occupation. Also, occupation would mean Russia would have to provide hot water to Ukrainians.

    But not only that, Russia would have to deal with an entire scope of Ukraine’s problems. Not to mention, there would be people, who would be openly hostile to Russian occupation. They would resent Russia for not allowing them into Europe and other nonsense. Russia would have to deal with rabid svidomites, and perhaps even underground resistance.

    Ain’t nobody got time for that…

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    occupation would mean Russia would have to provide hot water to Ukrainians. But not only that, Russia would have to deal with an entire scope of Ukraine’s problems.
     
    Why? I mean who says that it should? You approach this situation like a sovok person. When USSR occupied countries, it built schools and hospitals, and naturally, bankrupted itself in the process, but occupations do not have to look like that.
  49. @Aslangeo
    A Ukrainian ethnic lobby in Russia is unlikely in my opinion. Ukrainians who move to Russia assimilate pretty quickly (like my grandpa). Their children speak Russian and tend to identify as Russian. There is a lot of intermarriage (like my grandparents) and not that much nostalgia, and certainly no love for the extreme Ukrop nationalists. The ukrop super nationalists are unlikely to move to Russia for economic reasons, they are more likely to be cleaning toilets in Poland

    A western example is of people of Irish heritage in England. Their children are accepted as English, speak with English regional accents and are loyal to Britain, even if a few of them do play for the Irish Republic football team. There is a limited Irish lobby in England (the IRA did not help). This is in contrast to Irish Americans for whom anglophobia is a cultural sacrosanct.

    Th contrast with the Armenians is stark, even after a few generations Armenians identify with their ancestral homeland which they see as being perpetually under threat. The cultural differences are greater than with Ukrainians but there are some mixed marriages

    Ukrainians who move to Russia assimilate pretty quickly (like my grandpa).

    Pretty much the same experience here, my mother has a Ukrainian maiden name, and nobody would even call her Ukrainian.

  50. @Mitleser
    How much of that describes your ideal 21st century Russia?

    https://orig00.deviantart.net/b509/f/2018/272/7/e/how_we_should_organize_russia_by_kreiviskai-dco2raj.png


    Russia, officially the Russian Republic is a state in Eastern Europe and North Asia.
    The capital is Petropavlovsk. National language is Russian.
    It is governed as a unitary semi-presidential republic. Russia includes 57 oblasts and 1 capital district.

    Oblasts have wide self-management in internal affairs. The oblast's Administration is subordinated to the Oblast's Council - a regional legislature elected by a oblast election. Alongside with the Administration and the Council there are representatives of the central government (appointed from the capital) to oversee regional power's activities and to fight with corruption.

    Things that were (need to be) changed:
    - National autonomies are abolished, their ethnocracies are disbanded, an active policy is being implemented to plant the Russian language. Yakutia is divided between two existing regions and one newly formed one. The Caucasian republics are joined to the nearing Russian populated oblasts.
    - Irredentism: the southern Urals and Siberia and the city of Narva are annexed. In the former Kazakh territories, a jerrimendering was conducted to establish the absolute Russian majority in all newly formed oblasts. Two million Kazakhs living on annexed lands are subject to a policy of extrusion, like real Kazakh and Baltic ones. Citizenship is issued only to those who lived in these territories until 1991 or their descendants. Thus, oralmans and settlers from South Kazakhstan are cut off and are forced to leave.
    - The capital is in Petropavlovsk. A small wave of migration from Russia will press the Kazakhs even more, also the capital was also moved out of major economic centers and big cities to destroy financial centralization of the country.
    - New federal highways have been built (Arkhangelsk-Kirov, Irkutsk-Magadan and Khabarovsk-Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk), through which the economy and infrastructure of the northern regions and the Far East are more likely to develop.
    - The new administrative division, basically, is built on the state policy of urbanization. The Russian villagers and the population of the northern Siberian and Yakut regions are forced to move to the cities. Thus, depressed provincial regions are eliminated, and in the non-Russian regions cities are assimilating non-Russian population.
     

    In the former Kazakh territories, a jerrimendering was conducted to establish the absolute Russian majority in all newly formed oblasts.

    (The term is gerrymander, but I understand that your first language is not English)
    If it’s going to grab North Kazakhstan, Russia better be quick. In 1990, 38% of the population of Kazakhstan was Russian. Now it’s below 25%. Long term, failure to act will probably result in the displacement of this population.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Correct. This is why it would be good if Nazarbayev was to croak sooner rather than later, and the Kazakh nationalists he's been fostering were to come to power.
  51. @Anon

    The point of invading the Ukraine is establishing control of its territory and accelerating the natural, ongoing process of Ukrainian decline. Russia may or may not be a “declining medium power”, but the Ukraine is sure a declining banana republic, unable to provide basic services like hot water for its citizens.
     
    Ukraine manages its decline very well without full scale Russian occupation. Also, occupation would mean Russia would have to provide hot water to Ukrainians.

    But not only that, Russia would have to deal with an entire scope of Ukraine's problems. Not to mention, there would be people, who would be openly hostile to Russian occupation. They would resent Russia for not allowing them into Europe and other nonsense. Russia would have to deal with rabid svidomites, and perhaps even underground resistance.

    Ain't nobody got time for that...

    occupation would mean Russia would have to provide hot water to Ukrainians. But not only that, Russia would have to deal with an entire scope of Ukraine’s problems.

    Why? I mean who says that it should? You approach this situation like a sovok person. When USSR occupied countries, it built schools and hospitals, and naturally, bankrupted itself in the process, but occupations do not have to look like that.

    • Replies: @Anon

    but occupations do not have to look like that
     
    No they do not but that would not mean Russia would not have to deal with any problems.
  52. @Verymuchalive

    In the former Kazakh territories, a jerrimendering was conducted to establish the absolute Russian majority in all newly formed oblasts.
     
    (The term is gerrymander, but I understand that your first language is not English)
    If it's going to grab North Kazakhstan, Russia better be quick. In 1990, 38% of the population of Kazakhstan was Russian. Now it's below 25%. Long term, failure to act will probably result in the displacement of this population.

    Correct. This is why it would be good if Nazarbayev was to croak sooner rather than later, and the Kazakh nationalists he’s been fostering were to come to power.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    Before Displacement, there will be "affirmative action" job quotas for Kazakhs and "land reform" plans. Russia must take action long before this occurs, as the aim of such policies is to make as many Russians and other Slavs leave as possible and reduce ethnic Russians to a tiny rump.
  53. @Mr. XYZ
    Anatoly, have you ever considered the possibility that, if your plan actually works, it could also backfire in the sense that a high-profile pro-Ukrainian lobby could develop in Russia similar to, say, the Armenian lobby in Russia or the Israel lobby in the U.S.? For instance, I could imagine these elite Ukrainians trying to push Russia to give up Crimea and the Donbass while also pushing Russia to join the E.U. in order to strengthen the Slavic and White presence in the E.U.

    Also, as a side note, I have a question both of you and for everyone else here: Let's say that there would have been no World War II (for instance, as a result of Britain and France standing firm over the Sudetenland in 1938 and thus causing some German generals to overthrow Hitler and the Nazis; without Hitler, there is no World War II) and that Poland would have kept the Kresy (its Ukrainian-majority and Belarusian-majority territories, in addition to Lvov and Vilnius). In such a scenario, Poland would have escaped Communism and would have thus likely developed an Italian or Spanish standard of living by the early 21st century. In such a scenario--assuming that the Soviet Union still collapses on schedule near the end of the 20th century--is Ukraine likely to lean West or East? After all, while Ukraine would have been deprived of its most pro-Western areas (which would have remained a part of Poland in this scenario), Poland would have also been much richer in this scenario--something which could potentially attract even nominally pro-Russian Ukrainians in eastern and southern Ukraine. After all, as you wrote, money can certainly trump nationalism!

    Anyway, any thoughts on this?

    I don’t think so for the reasons that others have laid out. Ukrainians assimilate into Russians quickly.

    Some of the hardest people on the UQ (Ukrainian Question) are Russo-Ukrainians, Sergey Glazyev being the ur-example.

    • Replies: @AP
    And the founder of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists was half Polish.
    , @Mr. XYZ
    If Ukrainians in Russia are going to quickly assimilate and become Russians, what exactly makes you think that the Ukrainians who stay behind in Ukraine are going to listen to these Russian-Ukrainians?

    For instance, if Poland's cognitive elite moved en masse to the West and embraced open borders (for everyone--including Muslims and Africans), do you think that the Poles who stay behind in Poland are actually going to go along with this?

    Same with Ukrainians in Russia. Sure, they could become Russians and become passionately pro-Russia (or pro-Eurasia), but what incentive is there going to be for the Ukrainians in Ukraine to listen to them? If anything, I suspect that these Russian-Ukrainians will simply be viewed as a permanently lost part of the Ukrainian nation whose opinions should not carry any special weight.
  54. Putin ‘is planting troops and missiles in eastern Libya in bid to seize control of the biggest illegal immigration route to Europe’, UK intelligence fears

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6254859/Putin-planting-troops-missiles-eastern-Libya-anti-western-stronghold.html

    Any truth to it? Is Putin going to save Europe from African invasion?

  55. @LondonBob
    Irish have privileged migration and voting rights in Britain, this has been a disaster. Ethnic Irish are as influential as Jews in the creation of the corrosive left in Britain, as well as forming an underclass. Forget the Ukrainians, leave them alone and look after your own people.

    as influential as Jews in the creation of the corrosive left in Britain

    They are bad, but not even close to Jews.
    Jews are responsible for creating the SWP (and all of its offshoots), Militant, passing the Race Relations Act, founding the most important anti-Racism think tank the Runnymede trust, the racial and immigration policies of New Labour. This is putting aside the huge power they exert through fundraising to Labour (in the past) and the Conservaties. Not to mention that Irish affinity and loyalty to Ireland (in England certainly) does not even approach Jewish affinity and loyalty to Israel and the power of Zionist lobbying groups.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    I've read convincing accounts of Jews formenting and funding Dutch rebellion against the Spanish, and bankrolling Cromwell and his Puritans.

    Are there any worse judaised slimes than Protestants? Historically and at present?
  56. Of course they assimilate easily, the borders are arbitrary lines drawn in plains.
    Does anyone believe that people living near the border on both sides in case of Ukraine, Belarus and Russian Federation are different ethnicities?
    It would be interesting to track the historical migrations from present-day Ukraine to present-day Russian Federation throughout history.
    I was surprised with the high frequency of -ko and -uk surnames in Russia I encountered.

  57. Anon[275] • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder what would happen if China did the same for American white males? I’m thinking that peeling off just a few million might be enough to screw the US permanently (i.e. further dissolve its social cohesion and competitiveness) without really altering China’s demographics. Perhaps in some bizarre future scheme, they import some white guys into Taiwan in order to dilute its social cohesion and resistance to China while co-opting that same group to their own ends, eventually leading to reunification.

    “I suppose that if superintelligence is developed soon”

    How do you know that hasn’t already happened? The global fall in birth rates is quite odd, isn’t it?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Perhaps in some bizarre future scheme, they import some white guys into Taiwan in order to dilute its social cohesion and resistance to China while co-opting that same group to their own ends, eventually leading to reunification.
     
    Aside from everything else, how is Beijing supposed to determine the immigration policy of a renegade province they don't control?
    , @DFH
    Even better idea; sponsor a marriage program between Uighur women (Uighur men to be sent to re-education camps) and American men. Two birds with one stone.
    , @Pericles
    Peel off the engineers who aren't willingly, happily getting their balls trampled by SV/Seattle/etc dominatrix culture. It's not like they are wanted, right?

    Regarding human capital, I can see the same thing in certain countries when I visit (not EE). Beautiful, but they sure could use some Swedish city planners and engineers to really level up.

    In that vein, I've heard Swedish multinationals in Brazil have perpetual problems with Swedish engineers encountering an, ahem, warmer and more appreciative culture while on assignment. Eternal drama, divorces and so on, lol.
    , @Anon
    Through affirmative action, America is already peeling off White men. When the most productive and skilled part of the population is out of the work force through judicial diktat what happens to a country?
  58. @DFH

    as influential as Jews in the creation of the corrosive left in Britain
     
    They are bad, but not even close to Jews.
    Jews are responsible for creating the SWP (and all of its offshoots), Militant, passing the Race Relations Act, founding the most important anti-Racism think tank the Runnymede trust, the racial and immigration policies of New Labour. This is putting aside the huge power they exert through fundraising to Labour (in the past) and the Conservaties. Not to mention that Irish affinity and loyalty to Ireland (in England certainly) does not even approach Jewish affinity and loyalty to Israel and the power of Zionist lobbying groups.

    I’ve read convincing accounts of Jews formenting and funding Dutch rebellion against the Spanish, and bankrolling Cromwell and his Puritans.

    Are there any worse judaised slimes than Protestants? Historically and at present?

    • Replies: @DFH

    I’ve read convincing accounts of Jews formenting and funding Dutch rebellion against the Spanish, and bankrolling Cromwell and his Puritans.
     
    Were they really very important? Or is the role magnified massively out of importance by monomaniacs

    funding Dutch rebellion
     
    Is that even a bad thing? The initial Dutch revolt was led by Catholics anyway.

    Are there any worse judaised slimes than Protestants? Historically and at present?
     

    The comission set up by the Puritan parliament to decide on the Jewish question actually voted not to let them back in, it was only under Charles II that many Jews started to move to England. Kooky beliefs of a tiny subset of Protestants about the Old Testament have not been very important, for Protestantism or history in general.
    The greatest supporters of Jews have generally (before creatino of the Christian Zionist heresy in the 20th century) those who only care about money or power and not religion at all, like the MPs who passed the Jew Bill in 1753 but were forced to retract it becasue of Protestant pressure.
    , @Anon
    Dutch, formerly Spanish and Portuguese Jews bankrolled Cromwell.

    It was the English who bankrolled the Dutch revolt against Spain.
  59. CLARIFICATIONS

    1. By strip mining the Ukraine of human capital, I mean something more sophisticated than just open borders and handing out Russian passports like candy (though that should certainly also be done, even if Poland will necessarily do better for now on account of its higher wages – it’s pretty bizarre that Armenians get Russian passports at thrice the Ukrainian rate per capita).

    I mean selectively targeting Ukraine’s remaining cognitive elites and O-Ring sectors for transplantation into Russia wholesale, which is specifically what China is doing to Taiwan – successfully, despite their triple wage differential (my post on how the small, complex O-Ring sector determines wages for the economy as a whole). Nobody is currently doing that to the Ukraine that I know of. Sure, Ukrainian professors can still emigrate to Canada or whatever, but that requires a lot of work on their part; I just propose not just clearing away the red tape, but actively cajoling them along. The list of precisely which people, institutions, and corporations should be targeted requires serious analytical work. I am willing to offer my consulting services on this question at the ULTRA LOW rate of $500 per hour.

    2. Other people have pointed out that the chances of success (reincorporating the Ukraine) is low with this program.

    My reply is: Well, it’s low in any case, after the consecutive collapses of both the Eurasianist and military options.

    At least in this case, Russia will somewhat improve its own economy, while helping keep down that of a competing and hostile entity (in an ethical way, and at zero cost).

    3. That said, the chances of any of this happening are minimal, because the kremlins aren’t the CPC, and have different priorities, such as gibsmedats for Arabs:

    • Replies: @Epigon
    I think that part of that effort should be to tone down anti-Ukrainian rhetorics and make Ukrainians feel more than welcome.
    Not just "Russians from Ukraine", but even Ukrainians speaking Ukrainian and strongly identifying as such.
    Russian media handled the events very clumsily. Instead of precisely isolating the cancerous Ultras, SS Galizien tards, Einsatzgruppen worshippers and Azov LARPers, they opted for painting the entire Maidan supporter group as Fascists and coupists.

    In more concrete terms, your strategy envisions attracting people like AP to Russia. Every such individual coming to work and live in Russia is a net win in both short and long term.
    Claiming that Ukrainians are just a regional variety of Russians should reflect upon the treatment of Ukrainian identity - framing it as an ideological and political difference between Russians.
    If Bolshevik supporters and descendants of revolutionaries who gutted Russia and Russians could be Russian, I see no obstacle to welcome almost all Ukrainians and their opinions with open arms.

    , @Felix Keverich

    I mean selectively targeting Ukraine’s remaining cognitive elites and O-Ring sectors for transplantation into Russia wholesale
     
    You might want to elaborate on this: how many people you're talking about exactly? If individuals such as AP is what passes for Ukrainian cognitive elite, then, perhaps, we should just let it die? There are things that should just die, and Russia will not be diminished, if we let AP die.

    Also, I'm not sure what "O-Ring" means, but I doubt you'll find a lot of it in LDNR. You'll find plenty of pensioners though, who need to be cared for. The existance of pensioners is in fact the No.1 argument against annexing LDNR, and any futher territorial aquisions in the Ukraine. Not the sanctions, not the Ukrainian military, which remains laughable. It's the millions upon millions of useless old people, who need to be cared for.

  60. @Anatoly Karlin
    CLARIFICATIONS

    1. By strip mining the Ukraine of human capital, I mean something more sophisticated than just open borders and handing out Russian passports like candy (though that should certainly also be done, even if Poland will necessarily do better for now on account of its higher wages - it's pretty bizarre that Armenians get Russian passports at thrice the Ukrainian rate per capita).

    I mean selectively targeting Ukraine's remaining cognitive elites and O-Ring sectors for transplantation into Russia wholesale, which is specifically what China is doing to Taiwan - successfully, despite their triple wage differential (my post on how the small, complex O-Ring sector determines wages for the economy as a whole). Nobody is currently doing that to the Ukraine that I know of. Sure, Ukrainian professors can still emigrate to Canada or whatever, but that requires a lot of work on their part; I just propose not just clearing away the red tape, but actively cajoling them along. The list of precisely which people, institutions, and corporations should be targeted requires serious analytical work. I am willing to offer my consulting services on this question at the ULTRA LOW rate of $500 per hour.

    2. Other people have pointed out that the chances of success (reincorporating the Ukraine) is low with this program.

    My reply is: Well, it's low in any case, after the consecutive collapses of both the Eurasianist and military options.

    At least in this case, Russia will somewhat improve its own economy, while helping keep down that of a competing and hostile entity (in an ethical way, and at zero cost).

    3. That said, the chances of any of this happening are minimal, because the kremlins aren't the CPC, and have different priorities, such as gibsmedats for Arabs:

    https://twitter.com/PressTV/status/1049556517173760000

    I think that part of that effort should be to tone down anti-Ukrainian rhetorics and make Ukrainians feel more than welcome.
    Not just “Russians from Ukraine”, but even Ukrainians speaking Ukrainian and strongly identifying as such.
    Russian media handled the events very clumsily. Instead of precisely isolating the cancerous Ultras, SS Galizien tards, Einsatzgruppen worshippers and Azov LARPers, they opted for painting the entire Maidan supporter group as Fascists and coupists.

    In more concrete terms, your strategy envisions attracting people like AP to Russia. Every such individual coming to work and live in Russia is a net win in both short and long term.
    Claiming that Ukrainians are just a regional variety of Russians should reflect upon the treatment of Ukrainian identity – framing it as an ideological and political difference between Russians.
    If Bolshevik supporters and descendants of revolutionaries who gutted Russia and Russians could be Russian, I see no obstacle to welcome almost all Ukrainians and their opinions with open arms.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  61. @Felix Keverich

    occupation would mean Russia would have to provide hot water to Ukrainians. But not only that, Russia would have to deal with an entire scope of Ukraine’s problems.
     
    Why? I mean who says that it should? You approach this situation like a sovok person. When USSR occupied countries, it built schools and hospitals, and naturally, bankrupted itself in the process, but occupations do not have to look like that.

    but occupations do not have to look like that

    No they do not but that would not mean Russia would not have to deal with any problems.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Life involves "dealing with problems". I'm not sure what you're trying to say here...
  62. @Anon
    I wonder what would happen if China did the same for American white males? I'm thinking that peeling off just a few million might be enough to screw the US permanently (i.e. further dissolve its social cohesion and competitiveness) without really altering China's demographics. Perhaps in some bizarre future scheme, they import some white guys into Taiwan in order to dilute its social cohesion and resistance to China while co-opting that same group to their own ends, eventually leading to reunification.

    "I suppose that if superintelligence is developed soon"

    How do you know that hasn't already happened? The global fall in birth rates is quite odd, isn't it?

    Perhaps in some bizarre future scheme, they import some white guys into Taiwan in order to dilute its social cohesion and resistance to China while co-opting that same group to their own ends, eventually leading to reunification.

    Aside from everything else, how is Beijing supposed to determine the immigration policy of a renegade province they don’t control?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Turn it into another red line.
  63. @Hyperborean

    Perhaps in some bizarre future scheme, they import some white guys into Taiwan in order to dilute its social cohesion and resistance to China while co-opting that same group to their own ends, eventually leading to reunification.
     
    Aside from everything else, how is Beijing supposed to determine the immigration policy of a renegade province they don't control?

    Turn it into another red line.

  64. @Anatoly Karlin
    Correct. This is why it would be good if Nazarbayev was to croak sooner rather than later, and the Kazakh nationalists he's been fostering were to come to power.

    Before Displacement, there will be “affirmative action” job quotas for Kazakhs and “land reform” plans. Russia must take action long before this occurs, as the aim of such policies is to make as many Russians and other Slavs leave as possible and reduce ethnic Russians to a tiny rump.

  65. @Anon
    I wonder what would happen if China did the same for American white males? I'm thinking that peeling off just a few million might be enough to screw the US permanently (i.e. further dissolve its social cohesion and competitiveness) without really altering China's demographics. Perhaps in some bizarre future scheme, they import some white guys into Taiwan in order to dilute its social cohesion and resistance to China while co-opting that same group to their own ends, eventually leading to reunification.

    "I suppose that if superintelligence is developed soon"

    How do you know that hasn't already happened? The global fall in birth rates is quite odd, isn't it?

    Even better idea; sponsor a marriage program between Uighur women (Uighur men to be sent to re-education camps) and American men. Two birds with one stone.

  66. @Anatoly Karlin
    What Dmitry said, plus:

    What 30% raise? Russian wages are thrice higher than Ukrainian ones. The gap in academic wages is perhaps close to 10x now, unless Ukraine also started massively increasing them recently (I doubt it). Ukrainian prices are 30% cheaper, which isn't anywhere near enough to close that gap - I mention it because its something that AP mentions a lot (quoting that guy from Lvov who claimed that $100 there is equivalent to $1,000 in Moscow). If much poorer China can brain drain Taiwan, then much richer Russia should be able to do that easily to Ukraine - with the appropriate policies.

    The gap in academic wages is perhaps close to 10x now, unless Ukraine also started massively increasing them recently

    My sample of young Ukrainian researchers working in Moscow tells me that even the pay as a student here is significantly better than as a researcher in Kiev, that science is almost totally dead in Kiev and that this is very demotivating (the best remaining scientists having been mediocre students in Moscow back in the 70s), and that while young people can make a good living as programmers relative to the cost of living, the work conditions and hours are not sustainable for people with families.

    It is conceivable that the situation in Kiev will improve over the next decade or two, but this is far from certain.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    My new job is in academia (not saying more, for now) so I can confirm this first-hand. That conditions are much better than they were before, that is - don't know about Ukrainians, but you confirm what I strongly suspected.
  67. A great plan, but unfortunately about 15 years too late. Brain drain from Ukraine to Russia has already been on turbo mode for the last decade. Only the dregs of the dregs are left in Ukraine at this point.

    Here in 2018 even professional Ukrainian patriots prefer to do their dirty deed from the safety of Moscow. I think it’s safe to say it’s time that the valve be closed for a bit.

  68. @The Big Red Scary

    The gap in academic wages is perhaps close to 10x now, unless Ukraine also started massively increasing them recently
     
    My sample of young Ukrainian researchers working in Moscow tells me that even the pay as a student here is significantly better than as a researcher in Kiev, that science is almost totally dead in Kiev and that this is very demotivating (the best remaining scientists having been mediocre students in Moscow back in the 70s), and that while young people can make a good living as programmers relative to the cost of living, the work conditions and hours are not sustainable for people with families.

    It is conceivable that the situation in Kiev will improve over the next decade or two, but this is far from certain.

    My new job is in academia (not saying more, for now) so I can confirm this first-hand. That conditions are much better than they were before, that is – don’t know about Ukrainians, but you confirm what I strongly suspected.

  69. @Epigon
    I've read convincing accounts of Jews formenting and funding Dutch rebellion against the Spanish, and bankrolling Cromwell and his Puritans.

    Are there any worse judaised slimes than Protestants? Historically and at present?

    I’ve read convincing accounts of Jews formenting and funding Dutch rebellion against the Spanish, and bankrolling Cromwell and his Puritans.

    Were they really very important? Or is the role magnified massively out of importance by monomaniacs

    funding Dutch rebellion

    Is that even a bad thing? The initial Dutch revolt was led by Catholics anyway.

    Are there any worse judaised slimes than Protestants? Historically and at present?

    The comission set up by the Puritan parliament to decide on the Jewish question actually voted not to let them back in, it was only under Charles II that many Jews started to move to England. Kooky beliefs of a tiny subset of Protestants about the Old Testament have not been very important, for Protestantism or history in general.
    The greatest supporters of Jews have generally (before creatino of the Christian Zionist heresy in the 20th century) those who only care about money or power and not religion at all, like the MPs who passed the Jew Bill in 1753 but were forced to retract it becasue of Protestant pressure.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Cromwell and the Dutch Jews

    The 1600s were a century of overseas & Naval war fare between Netherlands and England. The Dutch finally won when Dutch Willian of Orange overthrew James 2 of England 1688.

    Allowing a few Dutch Jews into England was beneficial for both countries as information flowed between the English and Dutch Jews to the benefit of both countries. Some would call it a spy service.
  70. @Anon

    but occupations do not have to look like that
     
    No they do not but that would not mean Russia would not have to deal with any problems.

    Life involves “dealing with problems”. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here…

    • Replies: @Anon

    Life involves “dealing with problems”.
     
    Contemporary Russian society lives according to the principle of comfort and abundance, and this promises neither.
    , @Anon
    Most of those problems can be solved with the correct application of chemistry anyway: iron for gates, and lead for bullets. The current for Ukraine is really just a medical problem that needs the appropriate chemical solutions.
  71. @Anatoly Karlin
    CLARIFICATIONS

    1. By strip mining the Ukraine of human capital, I mean something more sophisticated than just open borders and handing out Russian passports like candy (though that should certainly also be done, even if Poland will necessarily do better for now on account of its higher wages - it's pretty bizarre that Armenians get Russian passports at thrice the Ukrainian rate per capita).

    I mean selectively targeting Ukraine's remaining cognitive elites and O-Ring sectors for transplantation into Russia wholesale, which is specifically what China is doing to Taiwan - successfully, despite their triple wage differential (my post on how the small, complex O-Ring sector determines wages for the economy as a whole). Nobody is currently doing that to the Ukraine that I know of. Sure, Ukrainian professors can still emigrate to Canada or whatever, but that requires a lot of work on their part; I just propose not just clearing away the red tape, but actively cajoling them along. The list of precisely which people, institutions, and corporations should be targeted requires serious analytical work. I am willing to offer my consulting services on this question at the ULTRA LOW rate of $500 per hour.

    2. Other people have pointed out that the chances of success (reincorporating the Ukraine) is low with this program.

    My reply is: Well, it's low in any case, after the consecutive collapses of both the Eurasianist and military options.

    At least in this case, Russia will somewhat improve its own economy, while helping keep down that of a competing and hostile entity (in an ethical way, and at zero cost).

    3. That said, the chances of any of this happening are minimal, because the kremlins aren't the CPC, and have different priorities, such as gibsmedats for Arabs:

    https://twitter.com/PressTV/status/1049556517173760000

    I mean selectively targeting Ukraine’s remaining cognitive elites and O-Ring sectors for transplantation into Russia wholesale

    You might want to elaborate on this: how many people you’re talking about exactly? If individuals such as AP is what passes for Ukrainian cognitive elite, then, perhaps, we should just let it die? There are things that should just die, and Russia will not be diminished, if we let AP die.

    Also, I’m not sure what “O-Ring” means, but I doubt you’ll find a lot of it in LDNR. You’ll find plenty of pensioners though, who need to be cared for. The existance of pensioners is in fact the No.1 argument against annexing LDNR, and any futher territorial aquisions in the Ukraine. Not the sanctions, not the Ukrainian military, which remains laughable. It’s the millions upon millions of useless old people, who need to be cared for.

    • Replies: @Anon

    Also, I’m not sure what “O-Ring” means, but I doubt you’ll find a lot of it in LDNR.

     

    Donetsk always had a heavy industry which required specialists, and they find it easy to move to Russia.

    If individuals such as AP is what passes for Ukrainian cognitive elite, then, perhaps, we should just let it die?
     
    For some reason AP subscribes to Ukr propaganda but there are his types in Russia already, and their opinion is rather irrelevant.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    You’d be surprised. I know at least a couple of Ukrainians who were heavily svidomy nationalists in 2014 (one even blocked me on Twitter) who have since become highly disillusioned with their former views, in fact the one who had Blocked me follows me again and RTs me.

    In any case, political views of such a tiny group don’t even matter all that much. The important thing is that AP are professionals who add a lot of value to whichever economy they work in, and it’s a good idea to bribe them out of the Ukraine.

    Re-pensions. What nonsense. Russia already pays the pensions of people in the LDNR. At this stage you’re repeating liberal myths about why Russia shouldn’t have intervened in the Ukraine. Kharkov, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Donetsk, and probably Zaporozhye would all have brought in more in taxes than they consumed a few years after getting reincorporated into Russia.

    Anyway, this talk of millions of useless old people comes off as rather psychopathic. It creates as much aversion as Gerard2′s rantings. Like this is the sort of stuff that would even alienate otherwise loyal Little Russians.
  72. Anon[381] • Disclaimer says:

    “Aside from everything else, how is Beijing supposed to determine the immigration policy of a renegade province they don’t control?”

    Here’s how I’d do it: encourage more Americans in tech, video games, or some other industry like rocket science to move to Taiwan (white guys/gals overwhelmingly), perhaps through some business venture with the Taiwanese; as the US goes anti-white multicult, import some white guys into mainland China or even Hong Kong if you can arrange it. As whites are verbally dominant over Asians and present in both locations, you can manipulate the mainland group to manipulate the Taiwan group, which would be dominant verbally over the natives. Over time, the two nations would become more interlinked until reunification is achieved peacefully (by using a third party minority as ethnic mediator). It’d be more complicated and involved that than, but perhaps it could be done. In any case, whites treated well in the mainland would cause the Taiwanese to think they’d also be treated well, lessening the probability of a break away.

    May seem bizarre, but who knows. China = billion people. So, peeling off 20 million white guys = destruction of the US as a superpower without firing a shot while also not really changing China’s demographics and introducing genes – albeit recessive ones – to make future Chinese girls prettier. Seems like a tempting scheme for some Asian trends genius to cook up one day as China will soon experience demographic problems of her own.

  73. Anon[143] • Disclaimer says:

    “they import some white guys into Taiwan in order to dilute its social cohesion”

    To further clarify, what I’m suggesting is similar to what happened with Quebec, Canada. In the mid 1990s, the province almost split away. However, there is now no more worry that breakaway will happen due to immigration into Quebec. Foreigners don’t give a damn about their secession cause and will vote against it. Importing some whites into Taiwan and mainland China would create a similar situation where a verbally-dominant white minority across both sides of the straight doesn’t care about the independence issue as it is a nothingburger for them. This would, assuming whites are permanent residents or citizens, lessen the possibility of breakaway while also giving the Chinese government another group they could manipulate on the island, done so with the cover of the group on the mainland. Eventually, there would be closer ties leading to reunification. Plus, a handful of future Chinese girls around Hong Kong or the mainland get prettier. Not a bad deal over all.

  74. @Felix Keverich
    Life involves "dealing with problems". I'm not sure what you're trying to say here...

    Life involves “dealing with problems”.

    Contemporary Russian society lives according to the principle of comfort and abundance, and this promises neither.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Neither did Russia's war in Syria, and the society ate it up. Russian society defers to Kremlin on issues of war and peace.
  75. @Anon 2
    Re: "making Russian culture so majestic and attractive..."

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations. That's easy to see: no country outside of Europe speaks
    German or Russian, and at least in the U.S. the study of German or Russian
    is in severe decline. Secondly, both Germany and Russia have a history of FORCING
    their neighbors to learn their useless languages (compared to English or Spanish),
    in Russia's case as recently as 1989. Even Spain and Portugal, which never
    created great civilizations, spread their beautiful languages (and cultures) practically
    effortlessly throughout Latin America and even in Africa.

    I would judge Germany more harshly than Russia. Russia got stuck with the worst
    piece of real estate in Europe, far from the great centers of European civilization,
    cursed with horrible climate, and because of its unfortunate location forced to
    be part of the defensive perimeter of Europe. However, for Germany there are no
    extenuating circumstances. Germany, incl. Austria, has been blessed in every
    possible way, and yet blew it in the most spectacular way, and with Merkel at
    the helm continues its history of failure. A couple of points: Germany (with Jewish
    help) gave the world not one but two antihumanitarian philosophies of life,
    Marxism (a gift that keeps on giving) and Nazism. In the space of 40 years Germany
    became guilty not of one but two cases of genocide, in SW Africa and in Poland.
    How can one take seriously a country like Germany that still practiced slavery
    as recently as in 1945, when civilized countries outlawed slavery in the 19th century.
    One of the reasons usually given for Germany's failure is the lack of skeptical
    tradition in German philosophy. Germany never produced people like Descartes or
    Hume who would have prevented German thinkers from going on flights of fancy
    like the anti-empirical ideologues Hegel or Marx. Parenthetically, China and India
    are two more examples of failed civilizations, and Japan was a failed civilization
    until 1945.

    By the way, I mentioned a Polish fellow who met a good-looking Russian woman
    (with Polish ancestry) in Brazil. They got married in Poland, lived in Moscow where
    she grew up for awhile but recently decided to move to a tropical paradise for mainly
    two reasons: (1) never-ending winters in Moscow, (2) soul-crushing commutes on
    the subway due to Moscow's enormous size. She said she could see herself living
    in Poland since Poland is warmer than Moscow and closer to Italy or France but
    they are still young and thirst for adventure so why not the tropics, at least for
    awhile.

    After all, what did Germany or Russia ever give world culture? America gave us twerking.

    • LOL: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Anon
    America gave the world Israel.
  76. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I mean selectively targeting Ukraine’s remaining cognitive elites and O-Ring sectors for transplantation into Russia wholesale
     
    You might want to elaborate on this: how many people you're talking about exactly? If individuals such as AP is what passes for Ukrainian cognitive elite, then, perhaps, we should just let it die? There are things that should just die, and Russia will not be diminished, if we let AP die.

    Also, I'm not sure what "O-Ring" means, but I doubt you'll find a lot of it in LDNR. You'll find plenty of pensioners though, who need to be cared for. The existance of pensioners is in fact the No.1 argument against annexing LDNR, and any futher territorial aquisions in the Ukraine. Not the sanctions, not the Ukrainian military, which remains laughable. It's the millions upon millions of useless old people, who need to be cared for.

    Also, I’m not sure what “O-Ring” means, but I doubt you’ll find a lot of it in LDNR.

    Donetsk always had a heavy industry which required specialists, and they find it easy to move to Russia.

    If individuals such as AP is what passes for Ukrainian cognitive elite, then, perhaps, we should just let it die?

    For some reason AP subscribes to Ukr propaganda but there are his types in Russia already, and their opinion is rather irrelevant.

  77. @Anon

    Life involves “dealing with problems”.
     
    Contemporary Russian society lives according to the principle of comfort and abundance, and this promises neither.

    Neither did Russia’s war in Syria, and the society ate it up. Russian society defers to Kremlin on issues of war and peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
    I'm not certain occupation of Ukraine would be as easy as operation in Syria.
  78. @Anon
    I wonder what would happen if China did the same for American white males? I'm thinking that peeling off just a few million might be enough to screw the US permanently (i.e. further dissolve its social cohesion and competitiveness) without really altering China's demographics. Perhaps in some bizarre future scheme, they import some white guys into Taiwan in order to dilute its social cohesion and resistance to China while co-opting that same group to their own ends, eventually leading to reunification.

    "I suppose that if superintelligence is developed soon"

    How do you know that hasn't already happened? The global fall in birth rates is quite odd, isn't it?

    Peel off the engineers who aren’t willingly, happily getting their balls trampled by SV/Seattle/etc dominatrix culture. It’s not like they are wanted, right?

    Regarding human capital, I can see the same thing in certain countries when I visit (not EE). Beautiful, but they sure could use some Swedish city planners and engineers to really level up.

    In that vein, I’ve heard Swedish multinationals in Brazil have perpetual problems with Swedish engineers encountering an, ahem, warmer and more appreciative culture while on assignment. Eternal drama, divorces and so on, lol.

    • Replies: @Anon
    I thought Swedes didn’t get married any more. Maybe they had to marry their girl friends to get a Brazilian spouse visa for her.
  79. @Felix Keverich

    I mean selectively targeting Ukraine’s remaining cognitive elites and O-Ring sectors for transplantation into Russia wholesale
     
    You might want to elaborate on this: how many people you're talking about exactly? If individuals such as AP is what passes for Ukrainian cognitive elite, then, perhaps, we should just let it die? There are things that should just die, and Russia will not be diminished, if we let AP die.

    Also, I'm not sure what "O-Ring" means, but I doubt you'll find a lot of it in LDNR. You'll find plenty of pensioners though, who need to be cared for. The existance of pensioners is in fact the No.1 argument against annexing LDNR, and any futher territorial aquisions in the Ukraine. Not the sanctions, not the Ukrainian military, which remains laughable. It's the millions upon millions of useless old people, who need to be cared for.

    You’d be surprised. I know at least a couple of Ukrainians who were heavily svidomy nationalists in 2014 (one even blocked me on Twitter) who have since become highly disillusioned with their former views, in fact the one who had Blocked me follows me again and RTs me.

    In any case, political views of such a tiny group don’t even matter all that much. The important thing is that AP are professionals who add a lot of value to whichever economy they work in, and it’s a good idea to bribe them out of the Ukraine.

    Re-pensions. What nonsense. Russia already pays the pensions of people in the LDNR. At this stage you’re repeating liberal myths about why Russia shouldn’t have intervened in the Ukraine. Kharkov, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Donetsk, and probably Zaporozhye would all have brought in more in taxes than they consumed a few years after getting reincorporated into Russia.

    Anyway, this talk of millions of useless old people comes off as rather psychopathic. It creates as much aversion as Gerard2′s rantings. Like this is the sort of stuff that would even alienate otherwise loyal Little Russians.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    Re-pensions. What nonsense. Russia already pays the pensions of people in the LDNR.
     
    Non exactly: Russia pays LDNR pension. LDNR pension is several times smaller, than the Russian pension. The minimum is 2600 rubles. And this is what makes LDNR affordable for the Russian budget.
    https://pensiagid.ru/poleznaya-informaciya/pensionnye-vyplaty-v-dnr.html

    would all have brought in more in taxes than they consumed a few years after getting reincorporated into Russia.

     

    This is definitely not true. Pensions and wages in the public sector would have to be raised to Russian level straight away, while local economy will take decades to catch up. Ukrainian per capita GDP is 20% of Russia's level. Eastern Ukrainian demographics are atrocious. It's a sea of old and middle aged people, with no savings and no useful skills.

    To give you some context Russia spent $150 billion on pensions in 2017. The cost of war will be totally dwarfed by the cost of Ukrainian pensions...which is why I favor a long period of occupation to allow them to die off, at which point territory could be safely annexed to Russia without breaking the budget.
    , @Mr. Hack

    Re-pensions. What nonsense. Russia already pays the pensions of people in the LDNR.
     
    When did this occur? last I heard, it was still being paid by Kyiv. People still needed to make the dangerous trip from the Russian controlled zone, to the Ukrainian side?
  80. it is not ordinary people – proles – who set national policies.

    True, but every once in a while, when the gods approve and the planets are in correct alignment, we throw our support to a Lenin or a Trump, and we ride the fiery kraken from hell.

  81. @Felix Keverich
    Neither did Russia's war in Syria, and the society ate it up. Russian society defers to Kremlin on issues of war and peace.

    I’m not certain occupation of Ukraine would be as easy as operation in Syria.

  82. @Anatoly Karlin
    I don't think so for the reasons that others have laid out. Ukrainians assimilate into Russians quickly.

    Some of the hardest people on the UQ (Ukrainian Question) are Russo-Ukrainians, Sergey Glazyev being the ur-example.

    And the founder of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists was half Polish.

  83. @Anatoly Karlin
    You’d be surprised. I know at least a couple of Ukrainians who were heavily svidomy nationalists in 2014 (one even blocked me on Twitter) who have since become highly disillusioned with their former views, in fact the one who had Blocked me follows me again and RTs me.

    In any case, political views of such a tiny group don’t even matter all that much. The important thing is that AP are professionals who add a lot of value to whichever economy they work in, and it’s a good idea to bribe them out of the Ukraine.

    Re-pensions. What nonsense. Russia already pays the pensions of people in the LDNR. At this stage you’re repeating liberal myths about why Russia shouldn’t have intervened in the Ukraine. Kharkov, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Donetsk, and probably Zaporozhye would all have brought in more in taxes than they consumed a few years after getting reincorporated into Russia.

    Anyway, this talk of millions of useless old people comes off as rather psychopathic. It creates as much aversion as Gerard2′s rantings. Like this is the sort of stuff that would even alienate otherwise loyal Little Russians.

    Re-pensions. What nonsense. Russia already pays the pensions of people in the LDNR.

    Non exactly: Russia pays LDNR pension. LDNR pension is several times smaller, than the Russian pension. The minimum is 2600 rubles. And this is what makes LDNR affordable for the Russian budget.

    https://pensiagid.ru/poleznaya-informaciya/pensionnye-vyplaty-v-dnr.html

    would all have brought in more in taxes than they consumed a few years after getting reincorporated into Russia.

    This is definitely not true. Pensions and wages in the public sector would have to be raised to Russian level straight away, while local economy will take decades to catch up. Ukrainian per capita GDP is 20% of Russia’s level. Eastern Ukrainian demographics are atrocious. It’s a sea of old and middle aged people, with no savings and no useful skills.

    To give you some context Russia spent $150 billion on pensions in 2017. The cost of war will be totally dwarfed by the cost of Ukrainian pensions…which is why I favor a long period of occupation to allow them to die off, at which point territory could be safely annexed to Russia without breaking the budget.

  84. @Anatoly Karlin
    You’d be surprised. I know at least a couple of Ukrainians who were heavily svidomy nationalists in 2014 (one even blocked me on Twitter) who have since become highly disillusioned with their former views, in fact the one who had Blocked me follows me again and RTs me.

    In any case, political views of such a tiny group don’t even matter all that much. The important thing is that AP are professionals who add a lot of value to whichever economy they work in, and it’s a good idea to bribe them out of the Ukraine.

    Re-pensions. What nonsense. Russia already pays the pensions of people in the LDNR. At this stage you’re repeating liberal myths about why Russia shouldn’t have intervened in the Ukraine. Kharkov, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Donetsk, and probably Zaporozhye would all have brought in more in taxes than they consumed a few years after getting reincorporated into Russia.

    Anyway, this talk of millions of useless old people comes off as rather psychopathic. It creates as much aversion as Gerard2′s rantings. Like this is the sort of stuff that would even alienate otherwise loyal Little Russians.

    Re-pensions. What nonsense. Russia already pays the pensions of people in the LDNR.

    When did this occur? last I heard, it was still being paid by Kyiv. People still needed to make the dangerous trip from the Russian controlled zone, to the Ukrainian side?

    • Replies: @Anon

    last I heard, it was still being paid by Kyiv.
     
    They were not paid by Kiev for a while. Then the numb-nuts in Kiev realised that they consider Donbass to be theirs.
  85. @AP

    Japan submitted to the US after losing militarily and it’s now pro-American and serves as a military outpost because “winning” works, but Russia winning in Ukraine, especially its southern and eastern regions, will entail perpetual enmity?
     
    Did Poland become friendly towards Russia and Germany, who won? Was Ireland friendly to Britain, who won?

    Hilariously they submitted fervently to the West that betrayed them in 1939 and 1940. I think Poles are still one of the most pro-American countries.

    • Replies: @DFH

    Hilariously they submitted fervently to the West that betrayed them in 1939 and 1940
     
    Presumably they should have instead decided to become a vassal state of Russia again?
    , @Marcus
    *Should have been "1939 and 1945"
  86. @Marcus
    Hilariously they submitted fervently to the West that betrayed them in 1939 and 1940. I think Poles are still one of the most pro-American countries.

    Hilariously they submitted fervently to the West that betrayed them in 1939 and 1940

    Presumably they should have instead decided to become a vassal state of Russia again?

  87. @Mr. Hack
    Sure, a lot of Ukrainians would move to Russia to take advantage of such opportunities. They may even appreciate Russians and their culture more so than before such an exprience. This doesn't guarantee that they'd change their political opinions. Look at AP, he loves Russia, but hates its policies towards Ukraine.

    Sensing that AP’s core views (like Poland is better for Ukraine than Russia) don’t constitute the majority of ethnic Ukrainians in Russia. Numerous pro-Russian Ukrainians in the former Ukrainian SSR and elsewhere.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    I have no problem with these 'Ukrainians', as long as they stay in Russia.
  88. As AP pointed out, it isn’t just low-skill migration moving to Poland anymore. I have a lot of contact with Ukrainian students in Warsaw and plenty of them are cognitive elites.

    According to the IPA, around 9,747 Ukrainian students studied at Polish universities during the 2012-13 academic year , while in 2013-14, the number increased to 15,123 people. With regard to the latest results, universities recorded 35,584 students in the 2016-17 academic year.

    In the last academic year, 56K international students came to Poland, close to 10% of the student population. Over half are from Ukraine. There are plenty of Belarussians as well. If you take all EE students, it’s close to 70% or higher. Some of those students go home but increasingly a lot of them stay on.

    The chart above shows foreigners paying into ZUS (our social-security fund). That’s not for temporary migrants but people who live for a year or longer and with longer-term intentions to stay. Ukrainians are moving up quickly in the last few years; increasingly rooted in Poland. While many of them are low skilled, there is also a non-trivial amount of elites, either those who came as students or those who were recruited into work right off the bat.

    Secondly, low-skill migration in fact encourages high-skill migration, they are not as untied as one might think. I don’t have the link now, but I’ve read about this on EE migration to the UK and Germany. Immigration researchers call this the ‘balloon effect’. If you cut off lower-skilled migration, higher-skill migration will be affected. Turns out that even elites prefer to be around their own kin in a new environment (neighbour shops, restaurants, community centers, day schools etc).

    Furthermore, to lure the elites of tomorrow you must necessarily take a wider bet on a larger group of people in order to be economical. It is hard to say how successful someone will be until they are in their 40s for the most part. By the time they are at their peak, they cost a lot more to lure per person. It makes more sense to target a larger group of 20-something in order to maximise the chances that you get all the elites at lower cost. Even those who don’t quite fall into that group will be net benefits to your society.

    Finally, I must add my skepticism to those who have already cast doubt on whether Russia will be able to lure top scientific talent away from other countries. It may be difficult to get into Australia or Canada, but European countries are increasingly open. The richest ones (Switzerland, Norway, Ireland etc) will continue to be very attractive. And it isn’t just about salaries. It’s even more so about the research budgets. Switzerland may be a small nation but it has very high incomes which allows it to spend a huge amount per scientist in terms of what they can buy. Russia will not be able to compete with that, unless it was willing to disproportionately spend money on a foreign class, but that would be politically unsustainable.

    • Replies: @utu
    Switzerland pays the highest salaries for PhD candidates (2500-6000 CHF ) and postdocs (3000-8000 CHF) in the world.

    https://www.myscience.ch/living/salary/salary_phd_postdoc
    , @Ali Choudhury
    That is true. Especially if you are in a research-intensive job, the network effects of being among other smart, well-funded peers who are there for the long haul cannot be overstated. Smart fractions now mostly speak English making it easy to settle in vast swathes of Western Europe and the Anglosphere. Russia might make sense as a stop-over for Ukrainians, Belorussians etc. if the incentives are there but would not be where the real difference-makers would want to stay long-term.
  89. @AP

    This would be genius proposal, and level of trolling.
     
    Best trolling ever would be Thorfinnson's idea of Russia adopting the Ukrainian Trident as its symbol and blue and yellow as its colors. Since Russians stole Rus anyways, why not go with it? Ukrainians would have to come up with something else then.

    Correction on the below highlighted:

    Best trolling ever would be Thorfinnson’s idea of Russia adopting the Ukrainian Trident as its symbol and blue and yellow as its colors. Since Russians stole Rus anyways, why not go with it? Ukrainians would have to come up with something else then.

    You can’t steal what’s already a part of you. The Tryzub is an early day Russian emblem, in line with the Riurik line of monarchs who ruled Russia for the period thru Vasili IV.

    The Tryzub on the background of the Russian national colors in flag and emblem forms is something that has already been evident. The blue and yellow Ukriian national colors are a fairly recent (in historical terms) development.

    • Replies: @Anon

    Best trolling ever would be Thorfinnson’s idea of Russia adopting the Ukrainian Trident as its symbol and blue and yellow as its colors.
     

    Holodomor was a genocide of Russian people.
     
    Not to mention this statement is partially true already, and Russian nationalists already believe that Ukrainians are Russians that were fooled by the Bolsheviks.

    The latter I believe with some reservations.
  90. @Felix Keverich

    While certain nationalists, including on this blog, still entertain fantasies about invading the Ukraine and ruling it like a Reichskommissariat, that would be worse than just immoral – it would almost certainly fail, since it buys into the narrative that Ukrainians can only become Russians at the point of a gun.
     
    Anatoly, you have a nasty habit of creating straw men. The fact that you need to misrepresent my idea shows how weak your reasoning is.

    The point of invading the Ukraine is establishing control of its territory and accelerating the natural, ongoing process of Ukrainian decline. Russia may or may not be a "declining medium power", but the Ukraine is sure a declining banana republic, unable to provide basic services like hot water for its citizens.

    The war is going to make it 10 times worse. Historically, war functioned as a powerful catalyst for change. The Ukraine is currently in the process of dying on its own, but my idea is to introduce a catalyst to it, so that we don't have to wait until 2050 for them to reach 15M pop. :)

    Once we have control of the territory, there is a number of things we could do with it. For example, if the goal is draining the Ukraine of its "smart faction" (whatever that means in the Ukraine), this will be easier to do once there is People's republic in Kiev, and most connections to the West are severed due to Western sanctions. The size of Russia's wages becomes irrelevant in this scenario - the mere fact that Russia has wages becomes an attraction for Ukrainian migrants.

    I am no military expert, but a whole bunch of people seem to believe that Russia's security is jeopardised by a hostile entity in our soft Ukrainian underbelly. Eliminating the entity and securing the underbelly to me seems like a natural thing to do. Absorbing the Ukraine's population (if that is what we wish to do) will only be made easier by dislocations produced by war.

    Last week I read your detailed plans regarding the destructi0n of Israel, now this week it’s the destruction and occupation of all of Ukraine. Why not really impress us and explain how Russia needs to invade and destroy the real ‘devil’ that’s behind it all, the US?

    You’re the living example of why Russia is perceived as the final refuge of kooks and freaks, where everything can be settled with a bomb or a bullet (or a shoe, as in your case). :-(

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    You’re the living example of why Russia is perceived as the final refuge of kooks and freaks
     
    Probably there are harmless countries like Canada in which hardly anyone blabbers online about their desire to invade other countries. But among big, bad countries-- say Brazil, China, India, Israel, Pakistan, Russia, Turkey, the United States, just to pick a list of countries that haven't signed the convention on cluster munitions-- Russia is hardly an outlier.

    Interestingly, my social circles in the US and in Russia are quite similar-- cosmopolitan scientists. But even the most "patriotic" Russian scientists that I know are noticeably less chauvinistic than all but the most lefty American scientists.

    As for vatniks and rednecks, they'd probably get along great, gleefully plotting together how to invade Canada from both sides to take over the breweries, hockey rinks, hunting grounds, and fishing holes.
    , @neutral
    Israel is the power behind the USA, not the other way round. If Israel were to be wiped out then it essentially be a decapitation strike of the US leadership.
  91. @Mr. Hack

    Bonus: Ukrainian nationalist songs are pretty groovy.
     
    Glad to hear that you like this type of fare, Anatoly. Here's a whole collection of such heartwarming melodies. The first one is the 'Zaporozhian March', being played as the background in the Polish film 'Between Fire and Sword'. The battle scene is of the Polsh debacle at 'Zhovti Vodi'. Sorry, I couldn't find one of the equally devastating battle at 'Konotop' for the Muscovites.

    https://youtu.be/rlhpi-WllkQ?list=PLezU15tj54ze87jKPvMZukfS64enSutpx&t=6

  92. @Mikhail
    Sensing that AP's core views (like Poland is better for Ukraine than Russia) don't constitute the majority of ethnic Ukrainians in Russia. Numerous pro-Russian Ukrainians in the former Ukrainian SSR and elsewhere.

    I have no problem with these ‘Ukrainians’, as long as they stay in Russia.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    How come you and AP don't seem to have the same kind of loyalty towards America as you do towards the Ukraine?
  93. @Anon

    The Russian Empire were winners, so much so that there were strong Russophile movements in Galicia, and in far-off Bohemia (Masaryk wanted to introduce Russian language instructions in Czech schools – understandably vetoed by the Austrian authorities).
     
    A lot of this had to do with the fact that Czech itself was suppressed, and for that matter not developed. The Czechs looked to Russia as a large, independent Slavic state, and to Russian language is a language that was superior to theirs.

    Russian is still superior to Czech by the way...

    In Halychyna, the locals were even more primitive and looked to Russia for ooga booga, muh Orthodoxy reasons.

    Today only linguists realise Russia's influence upon the Czechs, and that influence is not going to repeat itself unless a new Dostoyevsky rises. And Halychyna has literally gone bonkers...

    According to what someone had communicated to me, Solzhenitsyn said that Russia missed a golden opportunity by not taking Galicia after Napoloen’s defeat.

  94. @Epigon
    If it is like Serbs, then they are cynical, opportunistic "Russophiles" at best, who value Russia only for the geopolitical backing and perceived profit.
    In other words, most of modern day Serbs are Serbs-in-name-only, being a particularly toxic breed of Yugoslavs and riddled with inferiority complex towards West, shallow materialism and one-sided love for West.
    There is a small core of Russophillic Serbs, in addition to Sovietophillic (due to perceived Antifascism, Socialist history and fight against Axis) grouping that often gets bundled together.

    Several million Serbs happily live in "eternal, historical enemy" states like USA, UK, Germany and Austria, in addition to many "Serbs" across former Yugoslavia.

    Serbs can be of either a sovok (Titoist) or anti-sovok mindset, with some others taking a more neutral view between these two categories.

  95. @Anon 2
    Re: "making Russian culture so majestic and attractive..."

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations. That's easy to see: no country outside of Europe speaks
    German or Russian, and at least in the U.S. the study of German or Russian
    is in severe decline. Secondly, both Germany and Russia have a history of FORCING
    their neighbors to learn their useless languages (compared to English or Spanish),
    in Russia's case as recently as 1989. Even Spain and Portugal, which never
    created great civilizations, spread their beautiful languages (and cultures) practically
    effortlessly throughout Latin America and even in Africa.

    I would judge Germany more harshly than Russia. Russia got stuck with the worst
    piece of real estate in Europe, far from the great centers of European civilization,
    cursed with horrible climate, and because of its unfortunate location forced to
    be part of the defensive perimeter of Europe. However, for Germany there are no
    extenuating circumstances. Germany, incl. Austria, has been blessed in every
    possible way, and yet blew it in the most spectacular way, and with Merkel at
    the helm continues its history of failure. A couple of points: Germany (with Jewish
    help) gave the world not one but two antihumanitarian philosophies of life,
    Marxism (a gift that keeps on giving) and Nazism. In the space of 40 years Germany
    became guilty not of one but two cases of genocide, in SW Africa and in Poland.
    How can one take seriously a country like Germany that still practiced slavery
    as recently as in 1945, when civilized countries outlawed slavery in the 19th century.
    One of the reasons usually given for Germany's failure is the lack of skeptical
    tradition in German philosophy. Germany never produced people like Descartes or
    Hume who would have prevented German thinkers from going on flights of fancy
    like the anti-empirical ideologues Hegel or Marx. Parenthetically, China and India
    are two more examples of failed civilizations, and Japan was a failed civilization
    until 1945.

    By the way, I mentioned a Polish fellow who met a good-looking Russian woman
    (with Polish ancestry) in Brazil. They got married in Poland, lived in Moscow where
    she grew up for awhile but recently decided to move to a tropical paradise for mainly
    two reasons: (1) never-ending winters in Moscow, (2) soul-crushing commutes on
    the subway due to Moscow's enormous size. She said she could see herself living
    in Poland since Poland is warmer than Moscow and closer to Italy or France but
    they are still young and thirst for adventure so why not the tropics, at least for
    awhile.

    Germany has unambiguously contributed far more to world civilisation than most countries in this world. I would rank them highest in continental Europe. Only Anglos have had greater world impact – as evidenced by the fact that practically all Anglo offshoots are extremely impressive countries and English continues to be the lingua franca of science, business and most international debates. Hence why I write this in English.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German and he was the driving force. Nazism is a better slur against them. It was basically Germanic supremacism, though I ultimately view it in the same vein as I view ‘manifest destiny’ in the US. Every expanding state needs its moralising ideology, if for no other reason than propaganda for audiences at home and abroad.

    I also happen to be most fond of Germanic philiosophy. The French are clowns. Anglos are impressive but they are too liberal. Germans have a darker, more pessimistic outlook which I tend to like. They also have an outsized proportion of the best conservative minds historically speaking.

    As for them not spreading their language, that’s because they were boxed in. If you were at the Western edge of Europe (Iberia, France, UK) you had the oceans to think about and that naturally led to colonial settlements. If you were Germany with people from all sides hemming you in, you naturally focused more on land warfare and not getting done in. Foreign adventures in far-away lands was the last thing on your mind.

    Did they fail in the wars? Yes. Still impressive people.

    • Agree: Den Lille Abe
    • Replies: @Marcus
    I remember being on a forum with some Romanians, they all had a very high opinion of the ethnic Germans who were expelled after WWII, though they obviously resented Germany's role in the war. I suspect most East Europeans feel the same about their former neighbors.
    , @Bliss

    I would rank them highest in continental Europe. Only Anglos have had greater world impact
     
    France ranks higher than Germany mainly because the French Enlightenment had a greater positive impact on the World, including on the Germans starting with Frederick the Great.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German
     
    Neither was Einstein. So Germany shouldn’t be credited for the world impacts of two of the most impactful German speakers of all time? What’s left is Hitler....

    I also happen to be most fond of Germanic philiosophy. The French are clowns.
     
    Germanic philosophy is bullshit. Germany’s positive impacts on the world are in Science, Technology, the creation of the modern Welfare State.
    , @Pericles

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German and he was the driving force.

     

    Marx furthermore wrote his little thing while in London.
    , @Bliss

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid.
     
    You can thank the Germans for Socialism though:

    https://fee.org/articles/marching-to-bismarcks-drummer-the-origins-of-the-modern-welfare-state/

    Soviet socialism may now be a thing of the past, but there is one form of statism that still dominates the world, including the United States: the modern welfare state......The modern welfare state had its birthplace in late nineteenth-century Imperial Germany under Chancellor Otto von Bismarck.

    Bismarck explained to an American sympathizer the strategy behind these laws that guaranteed every German national health insurance, a pension, a minimum wage and workplace regulation, vacation, and unemployment insurance.

    In 1915, an American admirer of the German welfare state, Frederic Howe, explained the nature of the system in a book called Socialized Germany:

    The state has its finger on the pulse of the worker from the cradle to the grave. His education, his health, and his working efficiency are matters of constant concern. He is carefully protected from accident by laws and regulation governing factories. He is trained in his hand and in his brain to be a good workman and is insured against accident, sickness, and old age. While idle through no fault of his own, work is frequently found for him. When homeless, a lodging is offered so that he will not easily pass into the vagrant class.
  96. @Mr. Hack
    Last week I read your detailed plans regarding the destructi0n of Israel, now this week it's the destruction and occupation of all of Ukraine. Why not really impress us and explain how Russia needs to invade and destroy the real 'devil' that's behind it all, the US?

    You're the living example of why Russia is perceived as the final refuge of kooks and freaks, where everything can be settled with a bomb or a bullet (or a shoe, as in your case). :-(

    https://youtu.be/Bfnxj9U_aVY

    You’re the living example of why Russia is perceived as the final refuge of kooks and freaks

    Probably there are harmless countries like Canada in which hardly anyone blabbers online about their desire to invade other countries. But among big, bad countries– say Brazil, China, India, Israel, Pakistan, Russia, Turkey, the United States, just to pick a list of countries that haven’t signed the convention on cluster munitions– Russia is hardly an outlier.

    Interestingly, my social circles in the US and in Russia are quite similar– cosmopolitan scientists. But even the most “patriotic” Russian scientists that I know are noticeably less chauvinistic than all but the most lefty American scientists.

    As for vatniks and rednecks, they’d probably get along great, gleefully plotting together how to invade Canada from both sides to take over the breweries, hockey rinks, hunting grounds, and fishing holes.

  97. @Polish Perspective
    As AP pointed out, it isn't just low-skill migration moving to Poland anymore. I have a lot of contact with Ukrainian students in Warsaw and plenty of them are cognitive elites.

    According to the IPA, around 9,747 Ukrainian students studied at Polish universities during the 2012-13 academic year , while in 2013-14, the number increased to 15,123 people. With regard to the latest results, universities recorded 35,584 students in the 2016-17 academic year.
     
    In the last academic year, 56K international students came to Poland, close to 10% of the student population. Over half are from Ukraine. There are plenty of Belarussians as well. If you take all EE students, it's close to 70% or higher. Some of those students go home but increasingly a lot of them stay on.

    https://i.imgur.com/ip2XcQi.jpg

    The chart above shows foreigners paying into ZUS (our social-security fund). That's not for temporary migrants but people who live for a year or longer and with longer-term intentions to stay. Ukrainians are moving up quickly in the last few years; increasingly rooted in Poland. While many of them are low skilled, there is also a non-trivial amount of elites, either those who came as students or those who were recruited into work right off the bat.

    Secondly, low-skill migration in fact encourages high-skill migration, they are not as untied as one might think. I don't have the link now, but I've read about this on EE migration to the UK and Germany. Immigration researchers call this the 'balloon effect'. If you cut off lower-skilled migration, higher-skill migration will be affected. Turns out that even elites prefer to be around their own kin in a new environment (neighbour shops, restaurants, community centers, day schools etc).

    Furthermore, to lure the elites of tomorrow you must necessarily take a wider bet on a larger group of people in order to be economical. It is hard to say how successful someone will be until they are in their 40s for the most part. By the time they are at their peak, they cost a lot more to lure per person. It makes more sense to target a larger group of 20-something in order to maximise the chances that you get all the elites at lower cost. Even those who don't quite fall into that group will be net benefits to your society.

    Finally, I must add my skepticism to those who have already cast doubt on whether Russia will be able to lure top scientific talent away from other countries. It may be difficult to get into Australia or Canada, but European countries are increasingly open. The richest ones (Switzerland, Norway, Ireland etc) will continue to be very attractive. And it isn't just about salaries. It's even more so about the research budgets. Switzerland may be a small nation but it has very high incomes which allows it to spend a huge amount per scientist in terms of what they can buy. Russia will not be able to compete with that, unless it was willing to disproportionately spend money on a foreign class, but that would be politically unsustainable.

    Switzerland pays the highest salaries for PhD candidates (2500-6000 CHF ) and postdocs (3000-8000 CHF) in the world.

    https://www.myscience.ch/living/salary/salary_phd_postdoc

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Yes, but renting an apartment in a big city in Switzerland costs over 2000 CHF. Unless you’re single and just rent a studio for 1000-1500.
  98. @Mr. Hack
    I have no problem with these 'Ukrainians', as long as they stay in Russia.

    How come you and AP don’t seem to have the same kind of loyalty towards America as you do towards the Ukraine?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    My loyalty to the US is much greater than to Ukraine. I pay all of my taxes, vote in all of the elections, say and mean every word of the pledge of allegiance. Did I miss anything important?
    , @Anon

    How come you and AP don’t seem to have the same kind of loyalty towards America as you do towards the Ukraine?
     
    They have loyalty to svidomism but like any good patriot of Ukraine, they live very far from the place. Similar attitude can be observed with Western Russophiles, and many Russians abroad, many who have unrealistic view of Putin and Russia.
    , @AP
    Do you ask the same of the Russian "patriots" who do not live in Russia?
  99. @Mr. Hack
    Last week I read your detailed plans regarding the destructi0n of Israel, now this week it's the destruction and occupation of all of Ukraine. Why not really impress us and explain how Russia needs to invade and destroy the real 'devil' that's behind it all, the US?

    You're the living example of why Russia is perceived as the final refuge of kooks and freaks, where everything can be settled with a bomb or a bullet (or a shoe, as in your case). :-(

    https://youtu.be/Bfnxj9U_aVY

    Israel is the power behind the USA, not the other way round. If Israel were to be wiped out then it essentially be a decapitation strike of the US leadership.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    That’s not exactly true. American Jews are more important than Israeli Jews, and so destroying Israel would destroy what is the most important for these Jews, their fatherland, but it’d leave them intact to seek vengeance.
  100. @Felix Keverich
    Life involves "dealing with problems". I'm not sure what you're trying to say here...

    Most of those problems can be solved with the correct application of chemistry anyway: iron for gates, and lead for bullets. The current for Ukraine is really just a medical problem that needs the appropriate chemical solutions.

  101. @Hyperborean
    How come you and AP don't seem to have the same kind of loyalty towards America as you do towards the Ukraine?

    My loyalty to the US is much greater than to Ukraine. I pay all of my taxes, vote in all of the elections, say and mean every word of the pledge of allegiance. Did I miss anything important?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    My loyalty to the US is much greater than to Ukraine. I pay all of my taxes, vote in all of the elections, say and mean every word of the pledge of allegiance. Did I miss anything important?
     
    Isn't this a rather shallow definition?

    --

    In contrast to, say Twinkie or Thorfinnson, who are very spirited when it comes to American affairs, you seem to reserve that feistiness for the Ukraine.
  102. @Anon 2
    Re: "making Russian culture so majestic and attractive..."

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations. That's easy to see: no country outside of Europe speaks
    German or Russian, and at least in the U.S. the study of German or Russian
    is in severe decline. Secondly, both Germany and Russia have a history of FORCING
    their neighbors to learn their useless languages (compared to English or Spanish),
    in Russia's case as recently as 1989. Even Spain and Portugal, which never
    created great civilizations, spread their beautiful languages (and cultures) practically
    effortlessly throughout Latin America and even in Africa.

    I would judge Germany more harshly than Russia. Russia got stuck with the worst
    piece of real estate in Europe, far from the great centers of European civilization,
    cursed with horrible climate, and because of its unfortunate location forced to
    be part of the defensive perimeter of Europe. However, for Germany there are no
    extenuating circumstances. Germany, incl. Austria, has been blessed in every
    possible way, and yet blew it in the most spectacular way, and with Merkel at
    the helm continues its history of failure. A couple of points: Germany (with Jewish
    help) gave the world not one but two antihumanitarian philosophies of life,
    Marxism (a gift that keeps on giving) and Nazism. In the space of 40 years Germany
    became guilty not of one but two cases of genocide, in SW Africa and in Poland.
    How can one take seriously a country like Germany that still practiced slavery
    as recently as in 1945, when civilized countries outlawed slavery in the 19th century.
    One of the reasons usually given for Germany's failure is the lack of skeptical
    tradition in German philosophy. Germany never produced people like Descartes or
    Hume who would have prevented German thinkers from going on flights of fancy
    like the anti-empirical ideologues Hegel or Marx. Parenthetically, China and India
    are two more examples of failed civilizations, and Japan was a failed civilization
    until 1945.

    By the way, I mentioned a Polish fellow who met a good-looking Russian woman
    (with Polish ancestry) in Brazil. They got married in Poland, lived in Moscow where
    she grew up for awhile but recently decided to move to a tropical paradise for mainly
    two reasons: (1) never-ending winters in Moscow, (2) soul-crushing commutes on
    the subway due to Moscow's enormous size. She said she could see herself living
    in Poland since Poland is warmer than Moscow and closer to Italy or France but
    they are still young and thirst for adventure so why not the tropics, at least for
    awhile.

    Your comments often evoke vicarious embarrassment and I am sure not only in me.

  103. @Polish Perspective
    As AP pointed out, it isn't just low-skill migration moving to Poland anymore. I have a lot of contact with Ukrainian students in Warsaw and plenty of them are cognitive elites.

    According to the IPA, around 9,747 Ukrainian students studied at Polish universities during the 2012-13 academic year , while in 2013-14, the number increased to 15,123 people. With regard to the latest results, universities recorded 35,584 students in the 2016-17 academic year.
     
    In the last academic year, 56K international students came to Poland, close to 10% of the student population. Over half are from Ukraine. There are plenty of Belarussians as well. If you take all EE students, it's close to 70% or higher. Some of those students go home but increasingly a lot of them stay on.

    https://i.imgur.com/ip2XcQi.jpg

    The chart above shows foreigners paying into ZUS (our social-security fund). That's not for temporary migrants but people who live for a year or longer and with longer-term intentions to stay. Ukrainians are moving up quickly in the last few years; increasingly rooted in Poland. While many of them are low skilled, there is also a non-trivial amount of elites, either those who came as students or those who were recruited into work right off the bat.

    Secondly, low-skill migration in fact encourages high-skill migration, they are not as untied as one might think. I don't have the link now, but I've read about this on EE migration to the UK and Germany. Immigration researchers call this the 'balloon effect'. If you cut off lower-skilled migration, higher-skill migration will be affected. Turns out that even elites prefer to be around their own kin in a new environment (neighbour shops, restaurants, community centers, day schools etc).

    Furthermore, to lure the elites of tomorrow you must necessarily take a wider bet on a larger group of people in order to be economical. It is hard to say how successful someone will be until they are in their 40s for the most part. By the time they are at their peak, they cost a lot more to lure per person. It makes more sense to target a larger group of 20-something in order to maximise the chances that you get all the elites at lower cost. Even those who don't quite fall into that group will be net benefits to your society.

    Finally, I must add my skepticism to those who have already cast doubt on whether Russia will be able to lure top scientific talent away from other countries. It may be difficult to get into Australia or Canada, but European countries are increasingly open. The richest ones (Switzerland, Norway, Ireland etc) will continue to be very attractive. And it isn't just about salaries. It's even more so about the research budgets. Switzerland may be a small nation but it has very high incomes which allows it to spend a huge amount per scientist in terms of what they can buy. Russia will not be able to compete with that, unless it was willing to disproportionately spend money on a foreign class, but that would be politically unsustainable.

    That is true. Especially if you are in a research-intensive job, the network effects of being among other smart, well-funded peers who are there for the long haul cannot be overstated. Smart fractions now mostly speak English making it easy to settle in vast swathes of Western Europe and the Anglosphere. Russia might make sense as a stop-over for Ukrainians, Belorussians etc. if the incentives are there but would not be where the real difference-makers would want to stay long-term.

  104. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mikhail
    Correction on the below highlighted:

    Best trolling ever would be Thorfinnson’s idea of Russia adopting the Ukrainian Trident as its symbol and blue and yellow as its colors. Since Russians stole Rus anyways, why not go with it? Ukrainians would have to come up with something else then.
     
    You can't steal what's already a part of you. The Tryzub is an early day Russian emblem, in line with the Riurik line of monarchs who ruled Russia for the period thru Vasili IV.

    The Tryzub on the background of the Russian national colors in flag and emblem forms is something that has already been evident. The blue and yellow Ukriian national colors are a fairly recent (in historical terms) development.

    Best trolling ever would be Thorfinnson’s idea of Russia adopting the Ukrainian Trident as its symbol and blue and yellow as its colors.

    Holodomor was a genocide of Russian people.

    Not to mention this statement is partially true already, and Russian nationalists already believe that Ukrainians are Russians that were fooled by the Bolsheviks.

    The latter I believe with some reservations.

  105. @Mr. Hack

    Re-pensions. What nonsense. Russia already pays the pensions of people in the LDNR.
     
    When did this occur? last I heard, it was still being paid by Kyiv. People still needed to make the dangerous trip from the Russian controlled zone, to the Ukrainian side?

    last I heard, it was still being paid by Kyiv.

    They were not paid by Kiev for a while. Then the numb-nuts in Kiev realised that they consider Donbass to be theirs.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    So, Karlin seems way behind the times in claiming that Russia pays the pensions of the people in the LDNR? Kinda strange?...
  106. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hyperborean
    How come you and AP don't seem to have the same kind of loyalty towards America as you do towards the Ukraine?

    How come you and AP don’t seem to have the same kind of loyalty towards America as you do towards the Ukraine?

    They have loyalty to svidomism but like any good patriot of Ukraine, they live very far from the place. Similar attitude can be observed with Western Russophiles, and many Russians abroad, many who have unrealistic view of Putin and Russia.

  107. @Hyperborean
    How come you and AP don't seem to have the same kind of loyalty towards America as you do towards the Ukraine?

    Do you ask the same of the Russian “patriots” who do not live in Russia?

  108. The Taiwan analogy has a fundamental problem that I alluded to earlier: Taiwan is not a rival cousin of China but a state founded by exiled anti-Communist Chinese who are its elites. The natives are besides the point. So in a sense it is like Aksyonov’s Island of Crimea. Taiwanese Chinese elites are like Russian White exiles. So mainland Chinese policy is successfully convincing these Chinese Whites to return to or reinvest in the land of their fathers or grandfathers.

    Applying the Chinese approach to Taiwan to Russia and Ukraine is thus based on the false premise that these are one people, when they are not.

    Would China be able to pull this off with Vietnam, or Korea, if it wanted to?

    Realistically, this strategy applied toward Ukraine would at most strip Ukraine of any remaining Russian elites, reducing the ethnic Russian population in Ukraine that had produced people like Bulgakov, to a population of lumpens. Although I suspect this process has already been well underway. OTOH, it probably wouldn’t have much impact on the ethnic Ukrainian elites, whose people would rather stay home or just go to Poland or the West. So a place like Kharkiv would slide further downward, while Kiev or Lviv would not be affected much. This Taiwan policy would thus accelerate or further cement Ukraine’s demographic and economic westward reorientation. Frankly, it’s not much of a “tragedy” for Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    I don't think that China would have anywhere near as much success in pulling this off with Vietnam or Korea; after all, Chinese is not widely spoken there like it is in Taiwan.

    BTW, what do you think the odds are of the U.S. successfully brain-draining Britain, Ireland, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand had it actually made a serious effort to do this?
  109. Far too complicated. Just 2 steps:

    1. Annex Ukraine
    2. Get in the EU

    This way Rus is restored, and the Ukrainians get their EU dream, everyone’s happy.

    I am not even joking. As Richard Spencer and others have noted, the EU by itself is not such a bad idea, it needs serious reform if it’s going to survive anyway, and most of the people who want to reform it are either friendly or at least not hostile to Russia.

    And a “European Union” without the biggest European country in it has always seemed absurd to me.

    (note to Ukrainians: by “biggest European country” I am referring to Russia, as I know you also refer to Ukraine like this sometimes. Yes, Russia is an European country, and no, you are not a real country in the first place).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Joining EU was Prokhorov's plan.

    Theoretically, it would have usual advantages, that EU would have to transfer large funds and finance all kinds of infrastructure in Russia, until Russia reaches average EU income levels.

    However, absorbing such a large country, would not be viable for EU budget, so even if EU wanted Russia, it would then change its own rules, to reduce EU structural and cohesion funding.

    So, in other words, Prokhorov's plan is a mirage.

    More relevant and realistic question, whether EU will be accepting the Ukraine, and the expenditure tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars absorbing them would cost EU budget in the future.

    Even Ukraine is probably too large country for EU budget to fund so generously, and its current African socioeconomic levels could become an endless drag on EU budgets.

    From Kiev's perspective, EU membership is a rational goal, obviously. It would have disadvantage of mass emigration of people from Ukraine into the EU. But on the other hand, you would expect Ukraine's economy to rapidly develop in this scenario (even if the EU becomes less generous with structural.cohesion funding than in the past).

    , @Mitleser

    And a “European Union” without the biggest European country in it has always seemed absurd to me.
     
    No more absurd than Germany without German Austria, the original East Germany.
    , @utu

    Russia is an European country
     
    In what sense? Geographic? Turkey as well?
  110. Seems some improvement hapening regarding relationship with reality that even some rabid Russian imperialists are begining to think that there are better options than for the first time in human history waging war in country with wide scale functioning nuclear energy usage :)

    Sadly, this is also example of just “some” because there are more than plenty Russians whom can be relatively called “felixes kevereviches”, left in RF and also in so called near and far abroad.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
    Not leaving nuclear equipment in the hands of monkeys (the same ones that caused Chernobyl) is actually another good reason why the Ukraine should be annexed.
  111. @sudden death
    Seems some improvement hapening regarding relationship with reality that even some rabid Russian imperialists are begining to think that there are better options than for the first time in human history waging war in country with wide scale functioning nuclear energy usage :)

    Sadly, this is also example of just "some" because there are more than plenty Russians whom can be relatively called "felixes kevereviches", left in RF and also in so called near and far abroad.

    Not leaving nuclear equipment in the hands of monkeys (the same ones that caused Chernobyl) is actually another good reason why the Ukraine should be annexed.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    oh, I forgot that according to the plans everything will go on very smoothly and nicely when retaking that nuclear equipment.

    As everybody universally knows that everything goes according to the plans in war :)
  112. @Anon

    last I heard, it was still being paid by Kyiv.
     
    They were not paid by Kiev for a while. Then the numb-nuts in Kiev realised that they consider Donbass to be theirs.

    So, Karlin seems way behind the times in claiming that Russia pays the pensions of the people in the LDNR? Kinda strange?…

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    My understanding is that the DNR and LNR both pay pensions, which are in turn financed by Russia.

    They can also collect their Ukrainian pensions but that requires traveling into Kiev controlled territory past block posts, security checks, etc. Rather a hassle for the elderly.

    AFAIK Syria always continued making pensions payments throughout the country, including in rebel controlled areas. This would indicate that the Syrian government sees Idlib as more Syrian than the Ukrainian government sees Donbass as Ukrainian.
  113. @AP
    The Taiwan analogy has a fundamental problem that I alluded to earlier: Taiwan is not a rival cousin of China but a state founded by exiled anti-Communist Chinese who are its elites. The natives are besides the point. So in a sense it is like Aksyonov's Island of Crimea. Taiwanese Chinese elites are like Russian White exiles. So mainland Chinese policy is successfully convincing these Chinese Whites to return to or reinvest in the land of their fathers or grandfathers.

    Applying the Chinese approach to Taiwan to Russia and Ukraine is thus based on the false premise that these are one people, when they are not.

    Would China be able to pull this off with Vietnam, or Korea, if it wanted to?

    Realistically, this strategy applied toward Ukraine would at most strip Ukraine of any remaining Russian elites, reducing the ethnic Russian population in Ukraine that had produced people like Bulgakov, to a population of lumpens. Although I suspect this process has already been well underway. OTOH, it probably wouldn't have much impact on the ethnic Ukrainian elites, whose people would rather stay home or just go to Poland or the West. So a place like Kharkiv would slide further downward, while Kiev or Lviv would not be affected much. This Taiwan policy would thus accelerate or further cement Ukraine's demographic and economic westward reorientation. Frankly, it's not much of a "tragedy" for Ukraine.

    I don’t think that China would have anywhere near as much success in pulling this off with Vietnam or Korea; after all, Chinese is not widely spoken there like it is in Taiwan.

    BTW, what do you think the odds are of the U.S. successfully brain-draining Britain, Ireland, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand had it actually made a serious effort to do this?

  114. @Anatoly Karlin
    I don't think so for the reasons that others have laid out. Ukrainians assimilate into Russians quickly.

    Some of the hardest people on the UQ (Ukrainian Question) are Russo-Ukrainians, Sergey Glazyev being the ur-example.

    If Ukrainians in Russia are going to quickly assimilate and become Russians, what exactly makes you think that the Ukrainians who stay behind in Ukraine are going to listen to these Russian-Ukrainians?

    For instance, if Poland’s cognitive elite moved en masse to the West and embraced open borders (for everyone–including Muslims and Africans), do you think that the Poles who stay behind in Poland are actually going to go along with this?

    Same with Ukrainians in Russia. Sure, they could become Russians and become passionately pro-Russia (or pro-Eurasia), but what incentive is there going to be for the Ukrainians in Ukraine to listen to them? If anything, I suspect that these Russian-Ukrainians will simply be viewed as a permanently lost part of the Ukrainian nation whose opinions should not carry any special weight.

    • Replies: @DFH
    When colonial regimes tried this, they usually ended up creating the leaders of anti-colonial movements (like Nehru, Gandhi and various African leaders). On the other hand, a Ukranian can assimilate to be British (at least in a generation or so) in a way that an Indian cannot to British.
    , @DreadIlk
    The plan is not to make them listen. The plan is to strip mine them of talent. Now in weakened form whether they listen or not is not that important. But I hope for their own good they do listen when they are so weakened.
  115. @Mr. Hack
    So, Karlin seems way behind the times in claiming that Russia pays the pensions of the people in the LDNR? Kinda strange?...

    My understanding is that the DNR and LNR both pay pensions, which are in turn financed by Russia.

    They can also collect their Ukrainian pensions but that requires traveling into Kiev controlled territory past block posts, security checks, etc. Rather a hassle for the elderly.

    AFAIK Syria always continued making pensions payments throughout the country, including in rebel controlled areas. This would indicate that the Syrian government sees Idlib as more Syrian than the Ukrainian government sees Donbass as Ukrainian.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    No, it indicates that the Ukrainian government only wants to ensure that the right pensioner obtains the pension payment. It appears that many payments were getting into the wrong hands. Last I heard, the Red Cross, was going to act as a neutral party in this process. Also, can you provide any links that verify your understanding of Russian payed pension checks in the LDNR? Thanks.
  116. OT: New trend: cops start shooting their own dogs

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6246119/Texas-police-dog-shot-dead-biting-handler-raid.html

    Cop shoots police K-9 Kastor dead after it started attacking another officer during raid on suspect’s home

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6122449/Ohio-police-officer-shoots-dead-K9-attacked-him.html

    Ohio police officer shoots dead his K9 after it attacked him while the animal was being ‘verbally disciplined’

    https://www.ajc.com/news/crime–law/officer-fatally-shoots-his-police-dog-after-attacks-him/AgBqo6csyloz0tquOkPfrK/

    Officer fatally shoots his police dog after it attacks him

    https://abc13.com/news/hpd-officer-attacked-by-police-dog/1694077/

    Houston Police officer attacked by police dog

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4423430/police-dog-shot-by-k9-unit-officer/

    Ohio police dog euthanized after it attacked a K9 Unit officer, who then shot it

    But

    https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/man-shot-killed-ohio-officer-jethro-sentenced-45/story?id=41645362

    Man Who Shot, Killed Ohio K-9 Officer Jethro Sentenced to 45 Years in Prison

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/10/john-rush-stabbed-police-dog-prison-sentence_n_6841004.html

    Man Who Stabbed Police Dog To Death Gets 17 Years In Prison

    https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/news/10181-man-who-killed-police-dog-gets-extremely-long-sentence/

    Man Who Killed Police Dog Gets Extremely Long Sentence

  117. @Mr. XYZ
    If Ukrainians in Russia are going to quickly assimilate and become Russians, what exactly makes you think that the Ukrainians who stay behind in Ukraine are going to listen to these Russian-Ukrainians?

    For instance, if Poland's cognitive elite moved en masse to the West and embraced open borders (for everyone--including Muslims and Africans), do you think that the Poles who stay behind in Poland are actually going to go along with this?

    Same with Ukrainians in Russia. Sure, they could become Russians and become passionately pro-Russia (or pro-Eurasia), but what incentive is there going to be for the Ukrainians in Ukraine to listen to them? If anything, I suspect that these Russian-Ukrainians will simply be viewed as a permanently lost part of the Ukrainian nation whose opinions should not carry any special weight.

    When colonial regimes tried this, they usually ended up creating the leaders of anti-colonial movements (like Nehru, Gandhi and various African leaders). On the other hand, a Ukranian can assimilate to be British (at least in a generation or so) in a way that an Indian cannot to British.

  118. @Anatoly Karlin
    My understanding is that the DNR and LNR both pay pensions, which are in turn financed by Russia.

    They can also collect their Ukrainian pensions but that requires traveling into Kiev controlled territory past block posts, security checks, etc. Rather a hassle for the elderly.

    AFAIK Syria always continued making pensions payments throughout the country, including in rebel controlled areas. This would indicate that the Syrian government sees Idlib as more Syrian than the Ukrainian government sees Donbass as Ukrainian.

    No, it indicates that the Ukrainian government only wants to ensure that the right pensioner obtains the pension payment. It appears that many payments were getting into the wrong hands. Last I heard, the Red Cross, was going to act as a neutral party in this process. Also, can you provide any links that verify your understanding of Russian payed pension checks in the LDNR? Thanks.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    the right pensioner obtains the pension payment. It appears that many payments were getting into the wrong hands.
     
    ATMs work on the West Bank of the Jordan. Do they not work on the East Bank of the Dnieper?
  119. @Marcus
    Hilariously they submitted fervently to the West that betrayed them in 1939 and 1940. I think Poles are still one of the most pro-American countries.

    *Should have been “1939 and 1945″

  120. @Spisarevski
    Far too complicated. Just 2 steps:

    1. Annex Ukraine
    2. Get in the EU

    This way Rus is restored, and the Ukrainians get their EU dream, everyone's happy.

    I am not even joking. As Richard Spencer and others have noted, the EU by itself is not such a bad idea, it needs serious reform if it's going to survive anyway, and most of the people who want to reform it are either friendly or at least not hostile to Russia.

    And a "European Union" without the biggest European country in it has always seemed absurd to me.

    (note to Ukrainians: by "biggest European country" I am referring to Russia, as I know you also refer to Ukraine like this sometimes. Yes, Russia is an European country, and no, you are not a real country in the first place).

    Joining EU was Prokhorov’s plan.

    Theoretically, it would have usual advantages, that EU would have to transfer large funds and finance all kinds of infrastructure in Russia, until Russia reaches average EU income levels.

    However, absorbing such a large country, would not be viable for EU budget, so even if EU wanted Russia, it would then change its own rules, to reduce EU structural and cohesion funding.

    So, in other words, Prokhorov’s plan is a mirage.

    More relevant and realistic question, whether EU will be accepting the Ukraine, and the expenditure tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars absorbing them would cost EU budget in the future.

    Even Ukraine is probably too large country for EU budget to fund so generously, and its current African socioeconomic levels could become an endless drag on EU budgets.

    From Kiev’s perspective, EU membership is a rational goal, obviously. It would have disadvantage of mass emigration of people from Ukraine into the EU. But on the other hand, you would expect Ukraine’s economy to rapidly develop in this scenario (even if the EU becomes less generous with structural.cohesion funding than in the past).

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Joining EU was Prokhorov’s plan.

     

    In his manifesto, he proposed common currency zone with EU, or adoption of the euro. He also wanted (even without EU membership) open borders with the EU, while closed borders with Central Asia.

    Retrospectively, it could have been interesting - I wonder if adoption of euro would shield against sanctions, or make you more vulnerable to them.
  121. @Dmitry
    Joining EU was Prokhorov's plan.

    Theoretically, it would have usual advantages, that EU would have to transfer large funds and finance all kinds of infrastructure in Russia, until Russia reaches average EU income levels.

    However, absorbing such a large country, would not be viable for EU budget, so even if EU wanted Russia, it would then change its own rules, to reduce EU structural and cohesion funding.

    So, in other words, Prokhorov's plan is a mirage.

    More relevant and realistic question, whether EU will be accepting the Ukraine, and the expenditure tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars absorbing them would cost EU budget in the future.

    Even Ukraine is probably too large country for EU budget to fund so generously, and its current African socioeconomic levels could become an endless drag on EU budgets.

    From Kiev's perspective, EU membership is a rational goal, obviously. It would have disadvantage of mass emigration of people from Ukraine into the EU. But on the other hand, you would expect Ukraine's economy to rapidly develop in this scenario (even if the EU becomes less generous with structural.cohesion funding than in the past).

    Joining EU was Prokhorov’s plan.

    In his manifesto, he proposed common currency zone with EU, or adoption of the euro. He also wanted (even without EU membership) open borders with the EU, while closed borders with Central Asia.

    Retrospectively, it could have been interesting – I wonder if adoption of euro would shield against sanctions, or make you more vulnerable to them.

  122. @Mr. Hack
    No, it indicates that the Ukrainian government only wants to ensure that the right pensioner obtains the pension payment. It appears that many payments were getting into the wrong hands. Last I heard, the Red Cross, was going to act as a neutral party in this process. Also, can you provide any links that verify your understanding of Russian payed pension checks in the LDNR? Thanks.

    the right pensioner obtains the pension payment. It appears that many payments were getting into the wrong hands.

    ATMs work on the West Bank of the Jordan. Do they not work on the East Bank of the Dnieper?

  123. Anonymous[663] • Disclaimer says:

    4. Over time, there will be a reflux effect as these elite Ukrainians form a moneyed, high IQ pro-Russian constituency.

    You mean the way that Indian, Kenyan and Singaporean elites educated at British universities realized that they wanted to be part of the British Empire?

    Steve Sailer said something characteristically insightful about this in the context of former president Obama’s father, I believe. American elites think, plausibly enough, that allowing third worlders to study at American universities and work in America will lead them to love and want to emulate America when they return home. But actually, their sojourns in the US often cause them to further resent America for its global dominance and arrogance.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    You mean the way that Indian, Kenyan and Singaporean elites educated at British universities realized that they wanted to be part of the British Empire?
     
    The difference is these local elite could never fully join the elite of the British Empire, hence they opted for independence.
    , @Pericles

    allowing third worlders to study at American universities and work in America will lead them to love and want to emulate America when they return home.

     

    Obvious problem: They certainly don't want to go back.
  124. @Polish Perspective
    Germany has unambiguously contributed far more to world civilisation than most countries in this world. I would rank them highest in continental Europe. Only Anglos have had greater world impact - as evidenced by the fact that practically all Anglo offshoots are extremely impressive countries and English continues to be the lingua franca of science, business and most international debates. Hence why I write this in English.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German and he was the driving force. Nazism is a better slur against them. It was basically Germanic supremacism, though I ultimately view it in the same vein as I view 'manifest destiny' in the US. Every expanding state needs its moralising ideology, if for no other reason than propaganda for audiences at home and abroad.

    I also happen to be most fond of Germanic philiosophy. The French are clowns. Anglos are impressive but they are too liberal. Germans have a darker, more pessimistic outlook which I tend to like. They also have an outsized proportion of the best conservative minds historically speaking.

    As for them not spreading their language, that's because they were boxed in. If you were at the Western edge of Europe (Iberia, France, UK) you had the oceans to think about and that naturally led to colonial settlements. If you were Germany with people from all sides hemming you in, you naturally focused more on land warfare and not getting done in. Foreign adventures in far-away lands was the last thing on your mind.

    Did they fail in the wars? Yes. Still impressive people.

    I remember being on a forum with some Romanians, they all had a very high opinion of the ethnic Germans who were expelled after WWII, though they obviously resented Germany’s role in the war. I suspect most East Europeans feel the same about their former neighbors.

    • Replies: @AP
    Poles are different because Germany was much worse to Poland than it was to Romania (or Hungary).
    , @Polish Perspective
    You're making a cardinal error. You're assuming I like Germans on a social level. Germany's achievements to world civilisation is impossible to deny, regardless of how one feels about them as people. In general, I try to disentangle my views of a people with an objective look at history. To do otherwise is puerile. It has nothing to do with 'liking'. Most people's mental maps have not moved out of WWII, and your comment is an example of that.
  125. Apparently, many (most?) Ukrainians will never come around to the idea that they are really Russians and are just deluding themselves. Which means that AK did spend way too much time around the SJWs in the US because he is for more diversity for Russia and open borders with Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    What if the definition of term Russian shifts?
    Recognising Belarus and Ukraine as equal constituents of Russian culture, tradition and history?

    Who was more Russian? Bolshevik supporters and Sovoks or anti-Soviet West Ukrainians?

    The approach should definitely change, because Moscow/Vladimir-Suzdal started as an offshoot of Kiev/Novgorod Rus’
    So instead of ridiculing and insulting Ukrainians when they claim medieval Russian descent, some praise is in order?
    I am not talking about “knife/hang the Moskal” retards and “ultras”/paramilitary subhumans.
    I am talking about historians, ethnologists, academia, folklore ensembles.
    For example, joint research of common history, demography and migrations in 12th-20th century, promotion/festivals of Belarus and Ukrainian regional culture, dialect, traditions in Russian Federation. In turn, the same for regional variants in Russian Federation.
    Centuries of separate development and different influences, conditions can’t be erased.

    Russian Orthodox Church could have symbolically returned to Kiev and one-upped schismatics and Uniats. Their stance in current Russian-Ukrainian conflict is practically unaligned, as I see it.
  126. @Epigon
    If it is like Serbs, then they are cynical, opportunistic "Russophiles" at best, who value Russia only for the geopolitical backing and perceived profit.
    In other words, most of modern day Serbs are Serbs-in-name-only, being a particularly toxic breed of Yugoslavs and riddled with inferiority complex towards West, shallow materialism and one-sided love for West.
    There is a small core of Russophillic Serbs, in addition to Sovietophillic (due to perceived Antifascism, Socialist history and fight against Axis) grouping that often gets bundled together.

    Several million Serbs happily live in "eternal, historical enemy" states like USA, UK, Germany and Austria, in addition to many "Serbs" across former Yugoslavia.

    If it is like Serbs, then they are cynical, opportunistic “Russophiles” at best, who value Russia only for the geopolitical backing and perceived profit.

    There are Serbs like that; those are called traitors. Those would sell their neighbors to gain favors with their Western masters.

    In other words, most of modern day Serbs are Serbs-in-name-only, being a particularly toxic breed of Yugoslavs and riddled with inferiority complex towards West, shallow materialism and one-sided love for West.

    Most? Care to provide a percent (round to the nearest 10) and your sources, please. Otherwise it’s just slander. Same type of idiots with inferiority complex who watch reality shows here are the idiots who watch reality shows in Serbia. Human stupidity is universal.

    There is a small core of Russophillic Serbs, in addition to Sovietophillic (due to perceived Antifascism, Socialist history and fight against Axis) grouping that often gets bundled together.

    Small? Care to provide a percent (round to the nearest 10) and your sources, please.

    Serbs’ attitudes towards Russians transcend ideology. Russians are not foreigners in Serbia; they are “ours” (наши). It was like that in 12th century (based on historical sources), and it is like that today.

    Several million Serbs happily live in “eternal, historical enemy” states like USA, UK, Germany and Austria, in addition to many “Serbs” across former Yugoslavia.

    There are no “eternal, historical enemies”; that’s retard talk. People have to make a living. Despite 20th century history, Germans are pretty cool. Not the neutered version of today, of course, but the August Von Mackensen types. Also, best classical music. If I had to pick one source of classical music to listen exclusively for the rest of my life I would pick the German-speaking composers without a second thought.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    You live in fantasy land.
    Between “Russian brothers” and Western cash, most of Serbs picked Western cash repeatedly.
    Even Titoists opted for pro-West Tito and against USSR.
    Serbs voted for Euroatlantic stooges after a decade of Euroatlantic terror upon Serbs and an outright punitive bombing campaign.
    The last pro-Russian Serb leader was Petar Karađorđević.
    Everything after that was Anglo, American and Atlanticist stooges.

    Do we have to go through voting results from 2000 to 2012?
    Even in Srpska, inhabited by people most affected by Ustashe and Western/NATO “interventions” almost half the people vote for a fucking Freemason and US/British Embassy supported traitor.
    Ivanić, Mektić, Crnadak didn’t come out of nowhere. And you don’t want me to start on so called “Serbs from Croatia”, “Yugoslavs” and “Alija’s Serbs”. Dogs, sellouts, opportunistic scum in the last 150 years.

    Serbian lands and states are shitty because Serbs are shitty, horrible people on average. There is no going around that, things went for the worse after arguably the best people got killed in WW1. Dealing with a problem successfully requires accurate diagnostics first and foremost. Serbs were subject to worst negative selection and dysgenics in 20th century - patriotic and brave got killed in wars instigated by Anglo puppets, and by Croats; successful, patriotic got murdered and exiled by Communist scum and the capable, intelligent specialists emigrated due to economic hardships and sanctions, destructions in 1990s and 2000s.

  127. @Joach
    Japan submitted to the US after losing militarily and it's now pro-American and serves as a military outpost because "winning" works, but Russia winning in Ukraine, especially its southern and eastern regions, will entail perpetual enmity?

    Aside from this contradiction, I agree with most of what you said about co-opting the human capital and stopping with the gibs. I would literally do away with immigration enforcement with Ukraine and be vocal about the change, and hand out citizenship at will. Attracting workers of average IQ is no less important than attracting the cognitive elite with Russia's substantial higher wages in research and other intelligence-demanding jobs, which is what you propose. The Kremlin appears to be intimidated by the opinion of its Near Abroad if it abolishes the border with Ukraine and denies this special treatment to them. I'm sure Ukrainians have less of a hurdle when migrating to Russia, it's a kind of unofficial policy, but this is done in the dark, not telegraphed. It's a very Russian thing. There has to be transparency, the feelings of non-Slavs be damned.

    Recognising the republics in Donbass can lead to the rest of Ukraine joining NATO and the EU after being convinced by the FUKUS to abandon Crimea, so it's not going to happen. The negative being what you said: it's a constant black PR on Russia. It's a lose-lose situation.

    The US did not treat the existence of Japan and Japanese culture with patronizing disdain, even contempt.

    • Replies: @Joach
    Neither did Russia treat Ukrainian culture or people with disdain. Ukraine's healthy patriotism and lack of self-hatred is the result of benign Russian influence, whereas in Western Europe, the dominance of the Trotskyite-influenced 'liberalism' resulted in hostility towards nationalism and the natives.

    Really, this observation (self-hatred and cultural decay vs patriotism and traditionalism) can be applied to all countries under Soviet influence, and even to formerly divided Germany itself.

    It's a betrayal of Russia and, as everyone shall see if the Atlanticists in Kiev prevail, of Ukrainains themselves, to embrace the hostile Trotskyite forces of the Anglosphere and the European Union.

    The fundamental differences between the Trotskyite liberals (on culture and sociopolitics, they resemble more Marxists in doctrine than classical British liberals — this is a very important point) and Stalinists, and the resulting conflict in the past half a century, are explored by Kerry Bolton:

    Trotsky, Stalin, & the Cold War:
    The Historic Implications & Continuing Ramifications of the Trotsky-Stalin Conflict

  128. @Marcus
    I remember being on a forum with some Romanians, they all had a very high opinion of the ethnic Germans who were expelled after WWII, though they obviously resented Germany's role in the war. I suspect most East Europeans feel the same about their former neighbors.

    Poles are different because Germany was much worse to Poland than it was to Romania (or Hungary).

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Yes, because Poland rejected a place in the Nazi-led European order while Romania and Hungary accepted. Ironically, a higher percentage of Romania's and Hungary's Jewish population survived the Holocaust than Poland's Jewish population did.

    It was probably in Poland's best interests for France not to fall in 1940 and for the Nazis to get overthrown in a military coup afterwards. In such a scenario, peace could have been made in 1940 or 1941--though the new German leadership might have insisted on plebiscites in Danzig and the Polish Corridor (with only those people who were living there in 1918 actually being able to vote in these plebiscites) and threatened to continue the war if its demands were not agreed to.
  129. I suppose that if superintelligence is developed soon

    When we know it has come into being will be some time after the initial development and it announces itself “like a thief in the night”.

    If it is the explanation for the Fermi Paradox absolutely no civilization in the Universe so far has got past it heretofore, and as many must have suspected super-intelligence was possible and could be arbitrarily malevolent, they did not know it was already there and covertly cooking something up. The aforementioned considerations mean the likelihood is “nothing unusual happens until all of a sudden we are all dead”. No one will ever know when it came into being and like the characters in the last scene of Skyline, people will have better things to worry about once there is evidence.

    Everyone says even with a crash program it is a few decades away at least, and by then life will not have much new to offer anyone reading this now. On the other hand, given the Fermi paradox the default seems to be it being clandestinely extant before the human (or other) experts think it is even a million to one possibility.

    Supply and demand; the high wages are not going to continue to rise with a flood of qualified incomers. Hardy making the government popular with those whose wages were formerly rising because they have scarce skills. Also the presence of an increasing supply would inhibit Russians from training in those specialties. Yet the incomers lack roots and could move on leaving a shortage of home grown qualified technical specialists. It could work but it would be risky from the point of view of retaining cohesion, especially the support of the upper middle classes.

  130. @Chet Bradley

    If it is like Serbs, then they are cynical, opportunistic “Russophiles” at best, who value Russia only for the geopolitical backing and perceived profit.
     
    There are Serbs like that; those are called traitors. Those would sell their neighbors to gain favors with their Western masters.

    In other words, most of modern day Serbs are Serbs-in-name-only, being a particularly toxic breed of Yugoslavs and riddled with inferiority complex towards West, shallow materialism and one-sided love for West.
     
    Most? Care to provide a percent (round to the nearest 10) and your sources, please. Otherwise it's just slander. Same type of idiots with inferiority complex who watch reality shows here are the idiots who watch reality shows in Serbia. Human stupidity is universal.

    There is a small core of Russophillic Serbs, in addition to Sovietophillic (due to perceived Antifascism, Socialist history and fight against Axis) grouping that often gets bundled together.
     
    Small? Care to provide a percent (round to the nearest 10) and your sources, please.

    Serbs' attitudes towards Russians transcend ideology. Russians are not foreigners in Serbia; they are "ours" (наши). It was like that in 12th century (based on historical sources), and it is like that today.

    Several million Serbs happily live in “eternal, historical enemy” states like USA, UK, Germany and Austria, in addition to many “Serbs” across former Yugoslavia.
     
    There are no "eternal, historical enemies"; that's retard talk. People have to make a living. Despite 20th century history, Germans are pretty cool. Not the neutered version of today, of course, but the August Von Mackensen types. Also, best classical music. If I had to pick one source of classical music to listen exclusively for the rest of my life I would pick the German-speaking composers without a second thought.

    You live in fantasy land.
    Between “Russian brothers” and Western cash, most of Serbs picked Western cash repeatedly.
    Even Titoists opted for pro-West Tito and against USSR.
    Serbs voted for Euroatlantic stooges after a decade of Euroatlantic terror upon Serbs and an outright punitive bombing campaign.
    The last pro-Russian Serb leader was Petar Karađorđević.
    Everything after that was Anglo, American and Atlanticist stooges.

    Do we have to go through voting results from 2000 to 2012?
    Even in Srpska, inhabited by people most affected by Ustashe and Western/NATO “interventions” almost half the people vote for a fucking Freemason and US/British Embassy supported traitor.
    Ivanić, Mektić, Crnadak didn’t come out of nowhere. And you don’t want me to start on so called “Serbs from Croatia”, “Yugoslavs” and “Alija’s Serbs”. Dogs, sellouts, opportunistic scum in the last 150 years.

    Serbian lands and states are shitty because Serbs are shitty, horrible people on average. There is no going around that, things went for the worse after arguably the best people got killed in WW1. Dealing with a problem successfully requires accurate diagnostics first and foremost. Serbs were subject to worst negative selection and dysgenics in 20th century – patriotic and brave got killed in wars instigated by Anglo puppets, and by Croats; successful, patriotic got murdered and exiled by Communist scum and the capable, intelligent specialists emigrated due to economic hardships and sanctions, destructions in 1990s and 2000s.

  131. @AP
    Poles are different because Germany was much worse to Poland than it was to Romania (or Hungary).

    Yes, because Poland rejected a place in the Nazi-led European order while Romania and Hungary accepted. Ironically, a higher percentage of Romania’s and Hungary’s Jewish population survived the Holocaust than Poland’s Jewish population did.

    It was probably in Poland’s best interests for France not to fall in 1940 and for the Nazis to get overthrown in a military coup afterwards. In such a scenario, peace could have been made in 1940 or 1941–though the new German leadership might have insisted on plebiscites in Danzig and the Polish Corridor (with only those people who were living there in 1918 actually being able to vote in these plebiscites) and threatened to continue the war if its demands were not agreed to.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...because Poland rejected a place in the Nazi-led European order while Romania and Hungary accepted.
     
    Nazi Germany never offered Poland a 'place'. German policy at that time was straightforward: remove gradually all population in the areas that would become Germany. That included Poland, Czech R., most of Ukraine - it was the 'lebensraum'. Poles were slated to disappear, and disappear they would if Russians had not defeated Germans and saved Poland from annihilation. I don't think British, Americans or Canadians would shed blood to save Poland - and they didn't. (Lebensraum wasn't a mythical dream-land of Western imagination, it was a well-defined, specific region east of Germany).

    The fact that Germans considered Slavic ethnic groups 'untermenschen' also meant that they were unwilling to ally themselves with Poles, Serbs or Czechs. (Croats, Ukrainians and Slovaks had a temporary role as placeholders and quasi-allies, to be dealt with later.)

    Hungarians and Romanians were perfect allies for Germany: non-Slavic, in places that Germans didn't plan to settle, so they were accepted. Poles never had that choice.

  132. After all, the US even dropped a couple of nukes on Japan, but soon afterwards, the Japanese came to love the Americans………..People love winners, and despise losers.

    That is an absurd generalization. There must be a screw loose in your brain.

    A more rational blogger would have concluded that the post-WWII Japanese affinity towards America is based on economic and geo-political calculations: America helped Japan get very rich after it’s unconditional surrender, and America protects Japan from the vengeful wrath of China.

    I doubt the Japanese have forgiven the nukings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They are just biding their time….

  133. @iffen
    Apparently, many (most?) Ukrainians will never come around to the idea that they are really Russians and are just deluding themselves. Which means that AK did spend way too much time around the SJWs in the US because he is for more diversity for Russia and open borders with Ukraine.

    What if the definition of term Russian shifts?
    Recognising Belarus and Ukraine as equal constituents of Russian culture, tradition and history?

    Who was more Russian? Bolshevik supporters and Sovoks or anti-Soviet West Ukrainians?

    The approach should definitely change, because Moscow/Vladimir-Suzdal started as an offshoot of Kiev/Novgorod Rus’
    So instead of ridiculing and insulting Ukrainians when they claim medieval Russian descent, some praise is in order?
    I am not talking about “knife/hang the Moskal” retards and “ultras”/paramilitary subhumans.
    I am talking about historians, ethnologists, academia, folklore ensembles.
    For example, joint research of common history, demography and migrations in 12th-20th century, promotion/festivals of Belarus and Ukrainian regional culture, dialect, traditions in Russian Federation. In turn, the same for regional variants in Russian Federation.
    Centuries of separate development and different influences, conditions can’t be erased.

    Russian Orthodox Church could have symbolically returned to Kiev and one-upped schismatics and Uniats. Their stance in current Russian-Ukrainian conflict is practically unaligned, as I see it.

    • Replies: @iffen
    What if the definition of term Russian shifts?


    Well, sure, I might be a Russian too.


    I don't have any depth of knowledge on the subject, but from reading AK's blog and the comments, I think that there is a core of people who believe that they are Ukrainian and they believe that Ukrainian is something different from Russian. I have read a bit of WWII history and the Ukrainians in the large part behaved as if they were different from Russians.
    , @Mr. Hack

    So instead of ridiculing and insulting Ukrainians when they claim medieval Russian descent, some praise is in order?...I am talking about historians, ethnologists, academia, folklore ensembles. For example, joint research of common history, demography and migrations in 12th-20th century, promotion/festivals of Belarus and Ukrainian regional culture, dialect, traditions in Russian Federation...Centuries of separate development and different influences, conditions can’t be erased.
     
    Your musings are sound and one would hope could influence the development of peaceful relations between the Ukrainians and Russians. But based on the crude ideas put forth by Russians like Karlin, this isn't in the cards. Their prism of nationality politics is built around the cave manlike notion of only might makes right, and absent that, then reach out to your Ukrainian neighbors and tear away their intellectual elites by luring them away by 'strip mining human capital': destroy, destroy, destroy...steal, steal, steal seems to be the Russian modus operandi.
  134. It’s time to become winners again through SWPL supremacism, CRISPR-transhumanism, and neoliberal domestic economics.

    Orthodox neoliberalism is objectively wrong. Some of its points (basically small-l libertarianism) are reasonable, but it’s very wrong on money and trade. In Russia’s context it’s also wrong on labor. That doesn’t mean one should listen to leftist cranks like Michael Hudson of course (in the Russian context I believe this man is Glaziev).

    Money

    Neoliberalism does not understand the nature of money. Exhibit A: the endless chicken little panic over sovereign debt. A country which is a sovereign currency issuer cannot default unless for some reason the government wants to. Japan’s government debt exceeds 200% of gross domestic product, and the United Kingdom has twice caused that level before.

    Now that doesn’t mean it’s a free lunch (which MMT people genuinely believe). If the economy is at full capacity, then budget deficits are likely to increase inflation and interest rates. A very high debt burden means a large portion of the state budget will be allocated to debt service, which is undesirable.

    But the point is there’s nothing inherently dangerous about government debt or deficits. It’s simply a financial question. If the economy isn’t overheating, running small budget deficits is fine and even desirable. My only caveat is that budget deficits, outside of economic crises or war, should be constitutionally mandated to only be allocated to capital spending. That will make government borrowing more like business borrowing–the state (or rather the national economy) will then get a positive rate of return on its borrowing.

    Government debt also has benefits. As the most creditworthy borrower in the country, government bonds are ideal instruments for savings where volatility is not acceptable (say you want to buy a house in three years for instance, or your business needs a margin of safety). Banks must acquire reserves as capital for their assets (loans), and government bonds are exceptional instruments for this. Insurers need bonds almost by definition.

    With government debt at only 10.1% of GDP, I would argue that Russia’s government debt is in fact too low. And with unemployment at 5.1% (not bad in international context but not full employment), loads of layabouts drawing pensions, tons of overstaffed SOEs, and inflation at 2.5% the economy is not overheating.

    So Russia should in fact increase its government borrowing for needed infrastructure. Obvious priority at this point is more infrastructure for agricultural exports (already planned, but should be increased and accelerated) where Russia now has a comparative advantage. I also don’t see any reason why Russia couldn’t displace imported LNG in South Korea and Japan, as they’re close enough to build pipelines.

    Trade

    Comparative advantage applies only to fixed factors of production. Land for instance. Thus Russia has a comparative advantage in wheat owing to its land (though some other factors are involved).

    Where factors of production are not endowed by nature, it is only true in the short-term. In the long term you can create whatever factors of production are required. This is very much worth doing, as unless a country is very small it cannot converge with the technological frontier without developing the factors of production required for modern, competitive industries.

    But owing to the long time horizon and the uncertainty of profit, investors wisely avoid such gambles. Fortunately the state can afford those gambles–or it can change the incentives to make them attractive. It can even force businesses to do these things.

    Take the example of South Korea. In 1953, right after the end of the Korean War, it was a completely destroyed country with a per capita GDP about half the level of Ghana (seriously). Today South Korea is exporting nuclear reactors, complex system-on-a-chip semiconductors, and the world’s largest merchant ships. Its per capita GDP has converged with Western Europe.

    South Korea did all three of this things.

    In 1968, the South Korean government formed the Pohang Iron and Steel Company with the intent to build itself a modern steel industry. The World Bank rejected South Korea’s request for financing. Today POSCO is one of the world’s largest and most technologically advanced steelmakers. It employs 30,000 people and has annual sales of $60 billion. United States Steel, the first billion dollar corporation in history and formed by the legends Carnegie and Morgan, lobbies the US government for trade protection from POSCO.

    In 1970s, the South Korean government launched the Heavy-Chemical Industry Drive to give itself the heavy industrial infrastructure needed to become a modern country. A complex system of incentives including subsidies, tax breaks, loans, etc. was implemented by the state. By 1980 the program had succeeded–South Korea had functional steel, chemical, electric power, truck, etc. industries.

    Also in 1980 South Korea ordered Samsung to enter the semiconductor business, which Samsung was opposed to. Too bad, the state rules. Today Samsung is the world’s largest semiconductor manufacturer, having surpassed Intel.

    If you want to see what happens to a national economy with high human capital that does NOT force itself to reach the technological frontier, isn’t the obvious example in Eastern Europe? Russia’s main exports are those given to Russia by God. Its only successful manufacturing industries are which the Soviets most obsessively focused on. Meanwhile EU Eastern Europe is an economy colony of Germany. I can’t name a single Eastern European product or brand (outside of Russian ones). Total failure.

    Labor

    Neoliberal economists treat labor simply as a factor of production. Lower costs must be good, right? Not so fast.

    Low labor costs are only relevant for low value products. You must be extremely poor to compete in these markets. For high-value products it’s irrelevant.

    Laborers are also consumers, so their purchasing power supports domestic economic demand. And get this–because businesses don’t like losing money, expensive labor causes them to invest in capital equipment, enterprise software, training, and other such things which reduce the need for labor.

    What does that lead to? Increased labor productivity. Bam–moving towards the technological frontier!

    Now the country will see its domestic industries for low value products (e.g. textiles) disappear, which puts pressure on wages and employment and harms the nation’s hinterlands. But one can protect these industries with tariffs or non-tariff trade barriers.

    The downside of such a policy is that it would exacerbate Russia’s already too large trade surplus, but Russia could simply choose to export less oil and wheat then. This would also harm foreigners which is good by definition.

    tldr

    round up all neoliberal economists and conduct an atomic bomb test on them

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Simpleguest
    ".... because businesses don’t like losing money, expensive labor causes them to invest in capital equipment, enterprise software, training, and other such things which reduce the need for labor."

    and

    "Bam–moving towards the technological frontier!

    Technological frontier, no less!!

    You'd surprised to learn to what extent human core technologies still belong to the 19th century.

    Last time I checked a technology to replace say, seamstresses and other garment factory workers with Star Trek style synthesizers and replicators, did not exist yet.

    So, here on Earth, businesses that don't like losing money simply move manufacturing and services to cheap labor countries like China, Vietnam, Cambodia and others.

    The rest is just a fairy tale because, you see, if the technology is not there, it takes magic or special effects to do it .

    , @wild strawberries
    A very interesting read, Mr. Thorfinnsson. May I, as I sit in your class, be permitted to offer a few items for your consideration ?

    You say: “A country which is a sovereign currency issuer cannot default unless for some reason the government wants to.” Does the current threatened economic bankruptcy of Venezuela, Brazil, or Argentina conflict with your statement ? Or of Germany in the 1930’s ?

    Your additional statement is “But the point is there’s nothing inherently dangerous about government debt or deficits.” This appears to be in total disagreement with the situation in Greece. Total sovereignty is now exercised by outside financial interests. Greeks cannot fart without asking permission.

    I believe your writing does not apply to the economic system in the U.S. I see the US as not having a National currency. It is Federal Reserve Notes that circulate as a medium of exchange. They are commercial paper accepted on the credit of the privately owned Federal Reserve Board of Governors. [NOTICE: I did not say the Federal Reserve system.] They have the status of a legal tender for lawful money; i.e., a substitute for a National currency. This system can be crashed by the Federal Reserve at any time for their financial benefit, just as it was in the 1930’s. The Fed will be buying Treasury securities for pennies and demanding the US pay face value by selling national assets to the Fed at fire-sale prices---just like Greece.

    The Federal Reserve runs a Ponzi scheme. Every book-entry dollar created by deficit spending (Treasury security) represents an equal increase in principal of the National Debt. The obligation requires the principal PLUS the interest is to be paid when mature. The interest is never created; it does not exist. A contract that cannot be culminated is an act of fraud and is void upon its inception. The only way to procrastinate the collapse of the Ponzi scheme is to issue more debt (principal) to use to pay off the interest due from earlier debt. The growth in debt is exponential. Collapse is inherent when new debt is not accepted by the public. Ref. https://thedailycoin.org/2018/08/16/a-look-at-the-federal-reserve-through-a-different-lens/

    This appears to be the system utilized by the medieval Rothschild banks Benjamin Ginsberg describes in FATAL EMBRACE; JEWS AND THE STATE. Ben laments the repeated national economic calamity that followed---and the physical abuse, property seizure, and exile his clan received.

    Obviously this economic analysis does not reflect the disinformation trash distributed by the Federal Reserve.
    , @Dissident

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
     
    Question for A. Karlin:
    Wait, Thor, with this one comment of his, actually got you to reverse the position on "neoliberal domestic economics" that you had taken in your blog post? Or you were never serious about that statement in the first place? It would be unusual to see someone actually reverse a position that quickly.
    , @Anon
    I’ve been reading chicken little articles about how US debt will soon destroy the country for the past 50 years. Especially on conservative sites but nothing’s changed. The US is still chugging along despite what I read in National Review 50 years ago and on Unz this year.
  135. @Spisarevski
    Far too complicated. Just 2 steps:

    1. Annex Ukraine
    2. Get in the EU

    This way Rus is restored, and the Ukrainians get their EU dream, everyone's happy.

    I am not even joking. As Richard Spencer and others have noted, the EU by itself is not such a bad idea, it needs serious reform if it's going to survive anyway, and most of the people who want to reform it are either friendly or at least not hostile to Russia.

    And a "European Union" without the biggest European country in it has always seemed absurd to me.

    (note to Ukrainians: by "biggest European country" I am referring to Russia, as I know you also refer to Ukraine like this sometimes. Yes, Russia is an European country, and no, you are not a real country in the first place).

    And a “European Union” without the biggest European country in it has always seemed absurd to me.

    No more absurd than Germany without German Austria, the original East Germany.

  136. @Spisarevski
    Far too complicated. Just 2 steps:

    1. Annex Ukraine
    2. Get in the EU

    This way Rus is restored, and the Ukrainians get their EU dream, everyone's happy.

    I am not even joking. As Richard Spencer and others have noted, the EU by itself is not such a bad idea, it needs serious reform if it's going to survive anyway, and most of the people who want to reform it are either friendly or at least not hostile to Russia.

    And a "European Union" without the biggest European country in it has always seemed absurd to me.

    (note to Ukrainians: by "biggest European country" I am referring to Russia, as I know you also refer to Ukraine like this sometimes. Yes, Russia is an European country, and no, you are not a real country in the first place).

    Russia is an European country

    In what sense? Geographic? Turkey as well?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It's not very complicated or mystical. Ekaterinburg, for example, is city in Asia. But drive 10 or 15 kilometers West of the city, and on the highway you see on your right side a cheap marble sculpture marking boundary. Drive past the marble piece, and you know you are in Europe.

    In Turkey, in Istanbul, it's even less complicated to know, with water border dividing Istanbul. West side of Bosphorus - Europe. East side of Bosphorus - Asia.

  137. @Anonymous

    4. Over time, there will be a reflux effect as these elite Ukrainians form a moneyed, high IQ pro-Russian constituency.
     
    You mean the way that Indian, Kenyan and Singaporean elites educated at British universities realized that they wanted to be part of the British Empire?

    Steve Sailer said something characteristically insightful about this in the context of former president Obama's father, I believe. American elites think, plausibly enough, that allowing third worlders to study at American universities and work in America will lead them to love and want to emulate America when they return home. But actually, their sojourns in the US often cause them to further resent America for its global dominance and arrogance.

    You mean the way that Indian, Kenyan and Singaporean elites educated at British universities realized that they wanted to be part of the British Empire?

    The difference is these local elite could never fully join the elite of the British Empire, hence they opted for independence.

  138. @Polish Perspective
    Germany has unambiguously contributed far more to world civilisation than most countries in this world. I would rank them highest in continental Europe. Only Anglos have had greater world impact - as evidenced by the fact that practically all Anglo offshoots are extremely impressive countries and English continues to be the lingua franca of science, business and most international debates. Hence why I write this in English.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German and he was the driving force. Nazism is a better slur against them. It was basically Germanic supremacism, though I ultimately view it in the same vein as I view 'manifest destiny' in the US. Every expanding state needs its moralising ideology, if for no other reason than propaganda for audiences at home and abroad.

    I also happen to be most fond of Germanic philiosophy. The French are clowns. Anglos are impressive but they are too liberal. Germans have a darker, more pessimistic outlook which I tend to like. They also have an outsized proportion of the best conservative minds historically speaking.

    As for them not spreading their language, that's because they were boxed in. If you were at the Western edge of Europe (Iberia, France, UK) you had the oceans to think about and that naturally led to colonial settlements. If you were Germany with people from all sides hemming you in, you naturally focused more on land warfare and not getting done in. Foreign adventures in far-away lands was the last thing on your mind.

    Did they fail in the wars? Yes. Still impressive people.

    I would rank them highest in continental Europe. Only Anglos have had greater world impact

    France ranks higher than Germany mainly because the French Enlightenment had a greater positive impact on the World, including on the Germans starting with Frederick the Great.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German

    Neither was Einstein. So Germany shouldn’t be credited for the world impacts of two of the most impactful German speakers of all time? What’s left is Hitler….

    I also happen to be most fond of Germanic philiosophy. The French are clowns.

    Germanic philosophy is bullshit. Germany’s positive impacts on the world are in Science, Technology, the creation of the modern Welfare State.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson

    Neither was Einstein. So Germany shouldn’t be credited for the world impacts of two of the most impactful German speakers of all time? What’s left is Hitler….
     

    Are you kidding me? I realize history isn't your strong suit (not sure you have a strong suit at all tbh), but the only impactful German you can name is the H-man?

    Guttenberg, Luther, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Goethe, Hahn, Siemens, Röntgen, Heisenberg, Zuse, Schumacher, Nena, Humboldt, etc...and I specifically didn't mention any politicians, monarchs, or soldiers.

    There's even Albert Scwheitzer, the famous lover of negroes (though he considered them to be inferior).

    Germans are one of the most accomplished nations in all of human history with a towering list of glittering achievements. And yes, a country in the heart of Europe surrounded by adversaries very nearly twice mastering the continent is impressive.

    If you add the very large German diaspora (50 million Americans for instance) they become more impressive still. Take for instance the beloved and very talented celebrity David Hasselhoff. Or, you know, the current President of the United States whose paternal family hails from the Rhenish wine-making town of Kallstadt. Supposedly Kallstadters are known in Germany itself for being braggarts. :D

    , @LondonBob
    What is the French enlightenment?
    , @lauris71

    Germanic philosophy is bullshit
     
    Wouldn't say so.
    Kant still casts a huge shadow over many XX century schools of thought.
    Frege single-handedly created analytic philosphy (now exclusively British and American brand).
    Wittgenstein probably created something large we even cannot fully understand yet.
    Plush there are Marx, Nietzsche, Husserl, Heidegger - their philosophy may have been shit but they have huge influence over contemporary thought - larger than any French or British philosopher of the same period I can think of (OK, Adam Smith probably qualifies).
  139. I’ve been reading your blog for a few years but I’m not clear what you mean by the triad below. Can you briefly explain?

    winners again through SWPL supremacism, CRISPR-transhumanism, and neoliberal domestic economics.

  140. @Mr. Hack
    My loyalty to the US is much greater than to Ukraine. I pay all of my taxes, vote in all of the elections, say and mean every word of the pledge of allegiance. Did I miss anything important?

    My loyalty to the US is much greater than to Ukraine. I pay all of my taxes, vote in all of the elections, say and mean every word of the pledge of allegiance. Did I miss anything important?

    Isn’t this a rather shallow definition?

    In contrast to, say Twinkie or Thorfinnson, who are very spirited when it comes to American affairs, you seem to reserve that feistiness for the Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX_k5_egUAo
    , @Mr. Hack
    My first lessons in the greatness of American exceptionalism were taught to me every single day of my childhood. I'd rush home after school to watch the 30 minute serial 'Superman' who fought for 'Truth, Justice and the American way.' In fact, I could relate to Superman very closely, whose parents were forced to send their son to a totally alien culture in order to keep him out of harm's way in their native land, that was destroyed by an alien outside civilization. Sound familiar? I have never had a hard time being a loyal American and at the same time remain loyal to the homeland of my parents. I don't know how Thorfinnsson sleeps at night, trying to remain a loyal American but at the same time posing as a modern day Vladimir Posner? :-)

    https://youtu.be/Q2l4bz1FT8U

  141. @Hyperborean

    My loyalty to the US is much greater than to Ukraine. I pay all of my taxes, vote in all of the elections, say and mean every word of the pledge of allegiance. Did I miss anything important?
     
    Isn't this a rather shallow definition?

    --

    In contrast to, say Twinkie or Thorfinnson, who are very spirited when it comes to American affairs, you seem to reserve that feistiness for the Ukraine.

  142. Do you ask the same of the Russian “patriots” who do not live in Russia?

    Emigrating at times of crisis or other extenuating events is understandable, but after a sufficient amount of time, if they show no intention of moving back, then we can conclude they simply didn’t love their motherland enough.

    Those who live in the Anglosphere should reorient their focus towards something like promoting cultural activities in their new lands, if they still wish to promote their old country.

    This goes for all diasporas in the Anglosphere, the Anglos have enough parasites as it is.

    And on a personal level, many of the Russian emigres seem to have become bizarre in their years of exile.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    I realise that I may be accused of hypocrisy here, but my sojourn in China is merely a temporary affair, lasting only until I finish my schooling.
  143. @Bliss

    I would rank them highest in continental Europe. Only Anglos have had greater world impact
     
    France ranks higher than Germany mainly because the French Enlightenment had a greater positive impact on the World, including on the Germans starting with Frederick the Great.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German
     
    Neither was Einstein. So Germany shouldn’t be credited for the world impacts of two of the most impactful German speakers of all time? What’s left is Hitler....

    I also happen to be most fond of Germanic philiosophy. The French are clowns.
     
    Germanic philosophy is bullshit. Germany’s positive impacts on the world are in Science, Technology, the creation of the modern Welfare State.

    Neither was Einstein. So Germany shouldn’t be credited for the world impacts of two of the most impactful German speakers of all time? What’s left is Hitler….

    Are you kidding me? I realize history isn’t your strong suit (not sure you have a strong suit at all tbh), but the only impactful German you can name is the H-man?

    Guttenberg, Luther, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Goethe, Hahn, Siemens, Röntgen, Heisenberg, Zuse, Schumacher, Nena, Humboldt, etc…and I specifically didn’t mention any politicians, monarchs, or soldiers.

    There’s even Albert Scwheitzer, the famous lover of negroes (though he considered them to be inferior).

    Germans are one of the most accomplished nations in all of human history with a towering list of glittering achievements. And yes, a country in the heart of Europe surrounded by adversaries very nearly twice mastering the continent is impressive.

    If you add the very large German diaspora (50 million Americans for instance) they become more impressive still. Take for instance the beloved and very talented celebrity David Hasselhoff. Or, you know, the current President of the United States whose paternal family hails from the Rhenish wine-making town of Kallstadt. Supposedly Kallstadters are known in Germany itself for being braggarts. :D

    • Replies: @Bliss

    Guttenberg, Luther, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Goethe, Hahn, Siemens, Röntgen, Heisenberg, Zuse, Schumacher, Nena, Humboldt, etc…
     
    Lol. You are nuts for thinking any of them are in the same league as Hitler, Marx and Einstein when it comes to world impact and renown.

    Actually, Einstein belongs in a league of his own. The greatest “German” who ever lived. Say hi to Einstein’s mother:

    http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/pauline_koch.jpg
    , @Den Lille Abe
    I do agree on thiss :)
  144. @Hyperborean

    Do you ask the same of the Russian “patriots” who do not live in Russia?
     
    Emigrating at times of crisis or other extenuating events is understandable, but after a sufficient amount of time, if they show no intention of moving back, then we can conclude they simply didn't love their motherland enough.

    Those who live in the Anglosphere should reorient their focus towards something like promoting cultural activities in their new lands, if they still wish to promote their old country.

    This goes for all diasporas in the Anglosphere, the Anglos have enough parasites as it is.

    And on a personal level, many of the Russian emigres seem to have become bizarre in their years of exile.

    I realise that I may be accused of hypocrisy here, but my sojourn in China is merely a temporary affair, lasting only until I finish my schooling.

  145. @Philip Owen
    The US did not treat the existence of Japan and Japanese culture with patronizing disdain, even contempt.

    Neither did Russia treat Ukrainian culture or people with disdain. Ukraine’s healthy patriotism and lack of self-hatred is the result of benign Russian influence, whereas in Western Europe, the dominance of the Trotskyite-influenced ‘liberalism’ resulted in hostility towards nationalism and the natives.

    Really, this observation (self-hatred and cultural decay vs patriotism and traditionalism) can be applied to all countries under Soviet influence, and even to formerly divided Germany itself.

    It’s a betrayal of Russia and, as everyone shall see if the Atlanticists in Kiev prevail, of Ukrainains themselves, to embrace the hostile Trotskyite forces of the Anglosphere and the European Union.

    The fundamental differences between the Trotskyite liberals (on culture and sociopolitics, they resemble more Marxists in doctrine than classical British liberals — this is a very important point) and Stalinists, and the resulting conflict in the past half a century, are explored by Kerry Bolton:

    Trotsky, Stalin, & the Cold War:
    The Historic Implications & Continuing Ramifications of the Trotsky-Stalin Conflict

  146. @Epigon
    What if the definition of term Russian shifts?
    Recognising Belarus and Ukraine as equal constituents of Russian culture, tradition and history?

    Who was more Russian? Bolshevik supporters and Sovoks or anti-Soviet West Ukrainians?

    The approach should definitely change, because Moscow/Vladimir-Suzdal started as an offshoot of Kiev/Novgorod Rus’
    So instead of ridiculing and insulting Ukrainians when they claim medieval Russian descent, some praise is in order?
    I am not talking about “knife/hang the Moskal” retards and “ultras”/paramilitary subhumans.
    I am talking about historians, ethnologists, academia, folklore ensembles.
    For example, joint research of common history, demography and migrations in 12th-20th century, promotion/festivals of Belarus and Ukrainian regional culture, dialect, traditions in Russian Federation. In turn, the same for regional variants in Russian Federation.
    Centuries of separate development and different influences, conditions can’t be erased.

    Russian Orthodox Church could have symbolically returned to Kiev and one-upped schismatics and Uniats. Their stance in current Russian-Ukrainian conflict is practically unaligned, as I see it.

    What if the definition of term Russian shifts?

    Well, sure, I might be a Russian too.

    I don’t have any depth of knowledge on the subject, but from reading AK’s blog and the comments, I think that there is a core of people who believe that they are Ukrainian and they believe that Ukrainian is something different from Russian. I have read a bit of WWII history and the Ukrainians in the large part behaved as if they were different from Russians.

    • Replies: @inertial

    I think that there is a core of people who believe that they are Ukrainian and they believe that Ukrainian is something different from Russian.
     
    Is Bavarian different from German? Depends.

    I have read a bit of WWII history and the Ukrainians in the large part behaved as if they were different from Russians.
     
    No they didn't.
  147. @Thorfinnsson

    Neither was Einstein. So Germany shouldn’t be credited for the world impacts of two of the most impactful German speakers of all time? What’s left is Hitler….
     

    Are you kidding me? I realize history isn't your strong suit (not sure you have a strong suit at all tbh), but the only impactful German you can name is the H-man?

    Guttenberg, Luther, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Goethe, Hahn, Siemens, Röntgen, Heisenberg, Zuse, Schumacher, Nena, Humboldt, etc...and I specifically didn't mention any politicians, monarchs, or soldiers.

    There's even Albert Scwheitzer, the famous lover of negroes (though he considered them to be inferior).

    Germans are one of the most accomplished nations in all of human history with a towering list of glittering achievements. And yes, a country in the heart of Europe surrounded by adversaries very nearly twice mastering the continent is impressive.

    If you add the very large German diaspora (50 million Americans for instance) they become more impressive still. Take for instance the beloved and very talented celebrity David Hasselhoff. Or, you know, the current President of the United States whose paternal family hails from the Rhenish wine-making town of Kallstadt. Supposedly Kallstadters are known in Germany itself for being braggarts. :D

    Guttenberg, Luther, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Goethe, Hahn, Siemens, Röntgen, Heisenberg, Zuse, Schumacher, Nena, Humboldt, etc…

    Lol. You are nuts for thinking any of them are in the same league as Hitler, Marx and Einstein when it comes to world impact and renown.

    Actually, Einstein belongs in a league of his own. The greatest “German” who ever lived. Say hi to Einstein’s mother:

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Guttenberg and Luther had less impact than the H-man, Marx, and Einstein? Are you kidding me?

    I know you're a total negroid fool but this is really a stretch.

    And Einstein's mother is absolutely hideous. An incredibly ugly woman.

    , @Anon
    She looks half Australian Aborigine doesn’t she. It’s obvious her corset is made of solid steel and probably tightened with some sort of tool like a socket wrench powered by a motor, not human hands
  148. @iffen
    What if the definition of term Russian shifts?


    Well, sure, I might be a Russian too.


    I don't have any depth of knowledge on the subject, but from reading AK's blog and the comments, I think that there is a core of people who believe that they are Ukrainian and they believe that Ukrainian is something different from Russian. I have read a bit of WWII history and the Ukrainians in the large part behaved as if they were different from Russians.

    I think that there is a core of people who believe that they are Ukrainian and they believe that Ukrainian is something different from Russian.

    Is Bavarian different from German? Depends.

    I have read a bit of WWII history and the Ukrainians in the large part behaved as if they were different from Russians.

    No they didn’t.

    • Replies: @iffen
    No they didn’t.

    I thought that proportionately there were more Ukrainian collaborators and fewer partisans as compared to Belarus.
  149. @Hyperborean
    I see why you are called 'Anon'.

    OT: I doodled a bit last week, if you’re curious insofar as to my non-writing stuff…

    Chibi cat

    Face/hand experimentation

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    AK, can you hide the images behind a MORE? Sorry, I didn't expect it to be so spammy.
    , @Hyperborean
    I like it. But what kind of fabric is the cat drawn upon? It looks like cloth?
  150. @Bliss

    Guttenberg, Luther, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Goethe, Hahn, Siemens, Röntgen, Heisenberg, Zuse, Schumacher, Nena, Humboldt, etc…
     
    Lol. You are nuts for thinking any of them are in the same league as Hitler, Marx and Einstein when it comes to world impact and renown.

    Actually, Einstein belongs in a league of his own. The greatest “German” who ever lived. Say hi to Einstein’s mother:

    http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/pauline_koch.jpg

    Guttenberg and Luther had less impact than the H-man, Marx, and Einstein? Are you kidding me?

    I know you’re a total negroid fool but this is really a stretch.

    And Einstein’s mother is absolutely hideous. An incredibly ugly woman.

    • Replies: @Bliss

    Einstein’s mother is absolutely hideous. An incredibly ugly woman.
     
    You really are a piece of work. A truly evil character. I am guessing you get off on snuff videos. Disgusting.

    Guttenberg and Luther had less impact than the H-man, Marx, and Einstein?
     
    Hardly anyone knows or cares about Gutenberg. Besides, the Chinese were printing books long before him. Stupid of you to compare him to Einstein, who is one of the immortals, never to be forgotten.



    As for Luther, he has largely faded from the scene. You rarely hear even Protestant preachers mentioning his name. Marx too will fade soon enough. Hitler will last longer, but he too will become a distant memory. But Einstein is forever. Say hi to Einstein’s sister:

    https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/b9f8a958-41cf-404a-909b-2a40864a7365_1.e932532a41045c752ed121cae815b09b.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF
  151. @utu

    Russia is an European country
     
    In what sense? Geographic? Turkey as well?

    It’s not very complicated or mystical. Ekaterinburg, for example, is city in Asia. But drive 10 or 15 kilometers West of the city, and on the highway you see on your right side a cheap marble sculpture marking boundary. Drive past the marble piece, and you know you are in Europe.

    In Turkey, in Istanbul, it’s even less complicated to know, with water border dividing Istanbul. West side of Bosphorus – Europe. East side of Bosphorus – Asia.

  152. @Daniel Chieh
    OT: I doodled a bit last week, if you're curious insofar as to my non-writing stuff...

    Chibi cat

    https://i.imgur.com/JU1K1dv.png

    Face/hand experimentation

    https://i.imgur.com/G4SfS5f.png

    AK, can you hide the images behind a MORE? Sorry, I didn’t expect it to be so spammy.

  153. @Marcus
    I remember being on a forum with some Romanians, they all had a very high opinion of the ethnic Germans who were expelled after WWII, though they obviously resented Germany's role in the war. I suspect most East Europeans feel the same about their former neighbors.

    You’re making a cardinal error. You’re assuming I like Germans on a social level. Germany’s achievements to world civilisation is impossible to deny, regardless of how one feels about them as people. In general, I try to disentangle my views of a people with an objective look at history. To do otherwise is puerile. It has nothing to do with ‘liking’. Most people’s mental maps have not moved out of WWII, and your comment is an example of that.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    Well, I guess Poland would be different. But wherever they went in the US or Europe, Germans were highly regarded for their orderliness, work ethic, and respect for host peoples (though that may have been superficial).
  154. @Thorfinnsson
    Guttenberg and Luther had less impact than the H-man, Marx, and Einstein? Are you kidding me?

    I know you're a total negroid fool but this is really a stretch.

    And Einstein's mother is absolutely hideous. An incredibly ugly woman.

    Einstein’s mother is absolutely hideous. An incredibly ugly woman.

    You really are a piece of work. A truly evil character. I am guessing you get off on snuff videos. Disgusting.

    Guttenberg and Luther had less impact than the H-man, Marx, and Einstein?

    Hardly anyone knows or cares about Gutenberg. Besides, the Chinese were printing books long before him. Stupid of you to compare him to Einstein, who is one of the immortals, never to be forgotten.

    [MORE]

    As for Luther, he has largely faded from the scene. You rarely hear even Protestant preachers mentioning his name. Marx too will fade soon enough. Hitler will last longer, but he too will become a distant memory. But Einstein is forever. Say hi to Einstein’s sister:

    • Replies: @utu

    Hardly anyone knows or cares about Gutenberg. ...But Einstein is forever.
     
    Are you saying that Blacks are actually cognizant of Einstein but not of Gutenberg? Is Einstein better known than Mickey Mouse? Being know is the main criteria for you, right? I am asking because everything you say here has ethnocentric angle. You probably know nothing about the theory of relativity and how it was formulated and what role was played by Einstein in it and what is it good for. But what is important to you is that Einstein mother has some Negroidal quality in her looks. And you would like to claim Einstein so young Afro-Americans could have self esteem boost, right? Which is fine. Insecure nationalities have been known to do it. Look about Italians going ballistic that Columbus was one of their own or Poles about Copernicus that he was not German but Polish. So how is the meme of Einstein being African catching up so far? Are you making progress or you are just testing the beta version here? Do we really have to endure it? We are not your target audience. It is not the first time you are doing it. And a minor issue, have you checked with Jews? Oy vey, Gevalt, Eisntein Shvartze!
    , @Thorfinnsson
    She looks kind of like Malcolm Gladwell. Not a compliment.

    No wonder they hate us so much.
  155. @Bliss

    Einstein’s mother is absolutely hideous. An incredibly ugly woman.
     
    You really are a piece of work. A truly evil character. I am guessing you get off on snuff videos. Disgusting.

    Guttenberg and Luther had less impact than the H-man, Marx, and Einstein?
     
    Hardly anyone knows or cares about Gutenberg. Besides, the Chinese were printing books long before him. Stupid of you to compare him to Einstein, who is one of the immortals, never to be forgotten.



    As for Luther, he has largely faded from the scene. You rarely hear even Protestant preachers mentioning his name. Marx too will fade soon enough. Hitler will last longer, but he too will become a distant memory. But Einstein is forever. Say hi to Einstein’s sister:

    https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/b9f8a958-41cf-404a-909b-2a40864a7365_1.e932532a41045c752ed121cae815b09b.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF

    Hardly anyone knows or cares about Gutenberg. …But Einstein is forever.

    Are you saying that Blacks are actually cognizant of Einstein but not of Gutenberg? Is Einstein better known than Mickey Mouse? Being know is the main criteria for you, right? I am asking because everything you say here has ethnocentric angle. You probably know nothing about the theory of relativity and how it was formulated and what role was played by Einstein in it and what is it good for. But what is important to you is that Einstein mother has some Negroidal quality in her looks. And you would like to claim Einstein so young Afro-Americans could have self esteem boost, right? Which is fine. Insecure nationalities have been known to do it. Look about Italians going ballistic that Columbus was one of their own or Poles about Copernicus that he was not German but Polish. So how is the meme of Einstein being African catching up so far? Are you making progress or you are just testing the beta version here? Do we really have to endure it? We are not your target audience. It is not the first time you are doing it. And a minor issue, have you checked with Jews? Oy vey, Gevalt, Eisntein Shvartze!

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Bliss

    But what is important to you is that Einstein mother has some Negroidal quality in her looks.
     
    So did the “German” Beethoven, the greatest Composer of European Classical Music. So did Pushkin, the greatest writer in the Russian language. So did Dumas the most popular writer in the French language. So did Shakespeare the greatest writer in English. So did Machado de Assis the greatest writer in Portuguese. Etc, etc

    Why does it drive you and your ilk crazy when this is pointed out? Aren’t you all obsessed with race? Don’t you all claim to be “race realists”?

    I just helped you get real. You’re welcome.

    , @Dissident

    Look about Italians going ballistic that Columbus was one of their own[...]
     
    Might those sentiments of ethnic pride among Italians be what ultimately saves the remaining monuments in the West to Columbus from SJW anarchy? I wouldn't be so quick to belittle them.

    This past Monday, October 8th, was Columbus Day in the United States. I wonder how many people made some sort of statement in celebration and support of the great explorer. Is this not an area where all of us who support Western civilization against the Cult-Marx/Globalist onslaught should stand united?

  156. @Epigon
    What if the definition of term Russian shifts?
    Recognising Belarus and Ukraine as equal constituents of Russian culture, tradition and history?

    Who was more Russian? Bolshevik supporters and Sovoks or anti-Soviet West Ukrainians?

    The approach should definitely change, because Moscow/Vladimir-Suzdal started as an offshoot of Kiev/Novgorod Rus’
    So instead of ridiculing and insulting Ukrainians when they claim medieval Russian descent, some praise is in order?
    I am not talking about “knife/hang the Moskal” retards and “ultras”/paramilitary subhumans.
    I am talking about historians, ethnologists, academia, folklore ensembles.
    For example, joint research of common history, demography and migrations in 12th-20th century, promotion/festivals of Belarus and Ukrainian regional culture, dialect, traditions in Russian Federation. In turn, the same for regional variants in Russian Federation.
    Centuries of separate development and different influences, conditions can’t be erased.

    Russian Orthodox Church could have symbolically returned to Kiev and one-upped schismatics and Uniats. Their stance in current Russian-Ukrainian conflict is practically unaligned, as I see it.

    So instead of ridiculing and insulting Ukrainians when they claim medieval Russian descent, some praise is in order?…I am talking about historians, ethnologists, academia, folklore ensembles. For example, joint research of common history, demography and migrations in 12th-20th century, promotion/festivals of Belarus and Ukrainian regional culture, dialect, traditions in Russian Federation…Centuries of separate development and different influences, conditions can’t be erased.

    Your musings are sound and one would hope could influence the development of peaceful relations between the Ukrainians and Russians. But based on the crude ideas put forth by Russians like Karlin, this isn’t in the cards. Their prism of nationality politics is built around the cave manlike notion of only might makes right, and absent that, then reach out to your Ukrainian neighbors and tear away their intellectual elites by luring them away by ‘strip mining human capital’: destroy, destroy, destroy…steal, steal, steal seems to be the Russian modus operandi.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Claiming descent is perfectly and legitimate except that it is also accompanied by Ukrainians attempting to monopolize the Rus legacy while calling Russians Asiatic Muscovites... Something that Ukrainian nationalists, Poroshenko, and you yourself (though not AP) engage in - while still beseeching Russia to give you gas gibsmedats. The sheer chutzpah!

    Perhaps a stable base for positive relations could be found if the Ukraine was to be run by AP. But it's not, it's deeply hostile to everything to do with Russia (it doesn't just topple Lenin statues, but also Suvorov's). So Russia has no more cause to promote its success than Latvia's.
  157. @Hyperborean

    My loyalty to the US is much greater than to Ukraine. I pay all of my taxes, vote in all of the elections, say and mean every word of the pledge of allegiance. Did I miss anything important?
     
    Isn't this a rather shallow definition?

    --

    In contrast to, say Twinkie or Thorfinnson, who are very spirited when it comes to American affairs, you seem to reserve that feistiness for the Ukraine.

    My first lessons in the greatness of American exceptionalism were taught to me every single day of my childhood. I’d rush home after school to watch the 30 minute serial ‘Superman’ who fought for ‘Truth, Justice and the American way.’ In fact, I could relate to Superman very closely, whose parents were forced to send their son to a totally alien culture in order to keep him out of harm’s way in their native land, that was destroyed by an alien outside civilization. Sound familiar? I have never had a hard time being a loyal American and at the same time remain loyal to the homeland of my parents. I don’t know how Thorfinnsson sleeps at night, trying to remain a loyal American but at the same time posing as a modern day Vladimir Posner? :-)

    • Replies: @neutral
    Your hero renounced his citizenship

    http://comicsalliance.com/superman-renounces-us-citizenship/
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Superman is a Jewish creation.

    I had to look up Vladimir Posner. Having read the Wikipedia article I remember my father talking about this guy.

    A really strange person to compare me to.
    , @DreadIlk
    You are not loyal to America. You have to go back.
  158. @Anon 2
    Re: "making Russian culture so majestic and attractive..."

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations. That's easy to see: no country outside of Europe speaks
    German or Russian, and at least in the U.S. the study of German or Russian
    is in severe decline. Secondly, both Germany and Russia have a history of FORCING
    their neighbors to learn their useless languages (compared to English or Spanish),
    in Russia's case as recently as 1989. Even Spain and Portugal, which never
    created great civilizations, spread their beautiful languages (and cultures) practically
    effortlessly throughout Latin America and even in Africa.

    I would judge Germany more harshly than Russia. Russia got stuck with the worst
    piece of real estate in Europe, far from the great centers of European civilization,
    cursed with horrible climate, and because of its unfortunate location forced to
    be part of the defensive perimeter of Europe. However, for Germany there are no
    extenuating circumstances. Germany, incl. Austria, has been blessed in every
    possible way, and yet blew it in the most spectacular way, and with Merkel at
    the helm continues its history of failure. A couple of points: Germany (with Jewish
    help) gave the world not one but two antihumanitarian philosophies of life,
    Marxism (a gift that keeps on giving) and Nazism. In the space of 40 years Germany
    became guilty not of one but two cases of genocide, in SW Africa and in Poland.
    How can one take seriously a country like Germany that still practiced slavery
    as recently as in 1945, when civilized countries outlawed slavery in the 19th century.
    One of the reasons usually given for Germany's failure is the lack of skeptical
    tradition in German philosophy. Germany never produced people like Descartes or
    Hume who would have prevented German thinkers from going on flights of fancy
    like the anti-empirical ideologues Hegel or Marx. Parenthetically, China and India
    are two more examples of failed civilizations, and Japan was a failed civilization
    until 1945.

    By the way, I mentioned a Polish fellow who met a good-looking Russian woman
    (with Polish ancestry) in Brazil. They got married in Poland, lived in Moscow where
    she grew up for awhile but recently decided to move to a tropical paradise for mainly
    two reasons: (1) never-ending winters in Moscow, (2) soul-crushing commutes on
    the subway due to Moscow's enormous size. She said she could see herself living
    in Poland since Poland is warmer than Moscow and closer to Italy or France but
    they are still young and thirst for adventure so why not the tropics, at least for
    awhile.

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations.

    I guess you don’t listen to music other than pop music, nor do you read that much high literature.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Well that is true. France and England are conspicuously lacking in the world of Classical music. The only truly great names that come to mind are Purcell and Eric Sate.
  159. ‘…At the end of the day, it is not ordinary people – proles – who set national policies. It is national elites…’

    Well, not necessarily. Here in the US, the national elites are very upset about this fact at the moment.

    • Replies: @Dissident

    Here in the US, the national elites are very upset about this fact at the moment.
     
    If I have parsed your comment correctly, it sounds like you are convinced that the whole Trump as revolutionary figure opposing the elites meme is not just a contrived ploy to fool the Deplorable masses. I wonder what makes you so sure.
  160. @utu
    Switzerland pays the highest salaries for PhD candidates (2500-6000 CHF ) and postdocs (3000-8000 CHF) in the world.

    https://www.myscience.ch/living/salary/salary_phd_postdoc

    Yes, but renting an apartment in a big city in Switzerland costs over 2000 CHF. Unless you’re single and just rent a studio for 1000-1500.

  161. @reiner Tor

    Compared to the great civilizations (although at present in danger of decline)
    created by Britain, France, and the United States, Germany and Russia are
    failed civilizations.
     
    I guess you don’t listen to music other than pop music, nor do you read that much high literature.

    Well that is true. France and England are conspicuously lacking in the world of Classical music. The only truly great names that come to mind are Purcell and Eric Sate.

    • Replies: @inertial
    France is not lacking.
    , @reiner Tor
    France does have great composers, like Debussy and Ravel, but nowhere near as many as Greater Germany.
  162. @neutral
    Israel is the power behind the USA, not the other way round. If Israel were to be wiped out then it essentially be a decapitation strike of the US leadership.

    That’s not exactly true. American Jews are more important than Israeli Jews, and so destroying Israel would destroy what is the most important for these Jews, their fatherland, but it’d leave them intact to seek vengeance.

  163. @Yevardian
    Well that is true. France and England are conspicuously lacking in the world of Classical music. The only truly great names that come to mind are Purcell and Eric Sate.

    France is not lacking.

  164. having 200 million people (most of Ukraine + Belorussia + South Siberia) will be preferable to having 150 million due to the greater economies of scale and innovation that having more people enables.

    Except that you need to invest incredible energy to even annex these extra 50 million people, and then they will still be disloyal. By following the most clever plan, you can maybe get half of these to be loyal, the rest will still be disloyal. Meanwhile, the benefits from the economies of scale are minimal: you will only increase the total population by a bit over 30%, not much.

    When I was a small child I kept obsessing over old maps, how much larger Hungary used to be. I grew out of it. Your obsession with increasing the size of Russia (already the biggest country in the world) is childish.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    (already the biggest country in the world)
     
    The majority is low-quality land by human standards.
    Not a reason not to add more higher-quality land.
    , @Felix Keverich
    The difference is that Russia is a big and strong country, while Hungary is weak and small. Things that are not possible for Hungary are possible for Russia. Is it fair? No. But it's how the world works.

    Karlin got his maths wrong btw: I doubt we will find 50 million Slavs in the entirety of the Ukraine + Belarus + Kazakhstan. These territories are depopulating rapidly - the territories themselves are more interesting, than the aging, unproductive populace that inhabits them.

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Apart from Keverich's point about Russia actually being a Great Power-

    The equivalent would be me obsessing over Alaska, the Baltics, or most of central Asia.

    Which I don't. They're demographically unviable, just as Transylvania is demographically lost to Hungary (though IIRC Hungarians never constituted a majority there anyway).

    What we have is part of the Russian nation cosplaying as Ukrainians, parasiting on our history, while claiming that we're not Russians. It is also aesthetically objectionable in the extreme. Assuming the cult has gone too far to be reversed, it needs to be contained.
  165. @Yevardian
    Well that is true. France and England are conspicuously lacking in the world of Classical music. The only truly great names that come to mind are Purcell and Eric Sate.

    France does have great composers, like Debussy and Ravel, but nowhere near as many as Greater Germany.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    The two great British composers Gustav Holst and George Frideric Handel were Greater Germans. In English Protestantism music was discouraged, in Germany it was encouraged.
  166. @reiner Tor
    France does have great composers, like Debussy and Ravel, but nowhere near as many as Greater Germany.

    The two great British composers Gustav Holst and George Frideric Handel were Greater Germans. In English Protestantism music was discouraged, in Germany it was encouraged.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    You don’t need to be ashamed of your achievements, it’s something even in music, and outside of music it’s as great as or greater than any other nation.
    , @Ali Choudhury
    Also Delius, a grandson of one of Blucher's officers but surprisingly not Elgar.
    , @Aslangeo
    I remember having a beer with a Dutchman and an Irishman

    Ireland - great writers, (Joyce, Wilde, Yates, Beckett, Heaney) - cannot think of an Irish painter
    Holland - great painters (Rembrandt, Vermeer, Hals, Van Gogh, etc) - the only dutch writer the Irish bloke and I could think of was Ann Frank

    Russia's writers (Pushkin, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Pasternak, Bubin, Nabukov etc), painters (Repin, Levitan, malevich, Kandinsky, Vrubel, Serovetc. )

    Ukraine - well they will try to claim Gogol and Prokofiev but the only one I can think of was Taras Shevchenko who lets be honest has limited international appeal
  167. @Bliss

    I would rank them highest in continental Europe. Only Anglos have had greater world impact
     
    France ranks higher than Germany mainly because the French Enlightenment had a greater positive impact on the World, including on the Germans starting with Frederick the Great.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German
     
    Neither was Einstein. So Germany shouldn’t be credited for the world impacts of two of the most impactful German speakers of all time? What’s left is Hitler....

    I also happen to be most fond of Germanic philiosophy. The French are clowns.
     
    Germanic philosophy is bullshit. Germany’s positive impacts on the world are in Science, Technology, the creation of the modern Welfare State.

    What is the French enlightenment?

  168. @LondonBob
    The two great British composers Gustav Holst and George Frideric Handel were Greater Germans. In English Protestantism music was discouraged, in Germany it was encouraged.

    You don’t need to be ashamed of your achievements, it’s something even in music, and outside of music it’s as great as or greater than any other nation.

  169. @Daniel Chieh
    OT: I doodled a bit last week, if you're curious insofar as to my non-writing stuff...

    Chibi cat

    https://i.imgur.com/JU1K1dv.png

    Face/hand experimentation

    https://i.imgur.com/G4SfS5f.png

    I like it. But what kind of fabric is the cat drawn upon? It looks like cloth?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Screen artifact from taking a quick phone photo of my touch monitor for Discord.
  170. @reiner Tor

    having 200 million people (most of Ukraine + Belorussia + South Siberia) will be preferable to having 150 million due to the greater economies of scale and innovation that having more people enables.
     
    Except that you need to invest incredible energy to even annex these extra 50 million people, and then they will still be disloyal. By following the most clever plan, you can maybe get half of these to be loyal, the rest will still be disloyal. Meanwhile, the benefits from the economies of scale are minimal: you will only increase the total population by a bit over 30%, not much.

    When I was a small child I kept obsessing over old maps, how much larger Hungary used to be. I grew out of it. Your obsession with increasing the size of Russia (already the biggest country in the world) is childish.

    (already the biggest country in the world)

    The majority is low-quality land by human standards.
    Not a reason not to add more higher-quality land.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    The real world is not so simple. For example, the only place in the Russian Far East with a growing population and a healthy economy is Yakutia, and it's a landlocked republic that is literally colder than the North Pole. The shittiest kind of land by any metric, and yet here we are.

    Compare with the Ukraine -- a place with wonderful geography and resources, and a failed state dump that rivals Somalia for retardedness.
  171. @Mitleser

    (already the biggest country in the world)
     
    The majority is low-quality land by human standards.
    Not a reason not to add more higher-quality land.

    The real world is not so simple. For example, the only place in the Russian Far East with a growing population and a healthy economy is Yakutia, and it’s a landlocked republic that is literally colder than the North Pole. The shittiest kind of land by any metric, and yet here we are.

    Compare with the Ukraine — a place with wonderful geography and resources, and a failed state dump that rivals Somalia for retardedness.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Yakutia is neither landlocked nor particularly shitty.

    http://www.yakutiatravel.com/images/map/mineralmap.jpg
  172. @reiner Tor

    having 200 million people (most of Ukraine + Belorussia + South Siberia) will be preferable to having 150 million due to the greater economies of scale and innovation that having more people enables.
     
    Except that you need to invest incredible energy to even annex these extra 50 million people, and then they will still be disloyal. By following the most clever plan, you can maybe get half of these to be loyal, the rest will still be disloyal. Meanwhile, the benefits from the economies of scale are minimal: you will only increase the total population by a bit over 30%, not much.

    When I was a small child I kept obsessing over old maps, how much larger Hungary used to be. I grew out of it. Your obsession with increasing the size of Russia (already the biggest country in the world) is childish.

    The difference is that Russia is a big and strong country, while Hungary is weak and small. Things that are not possible for Hungary are possible for Russia. Is it fair? No. But it’s how the world works.

    Karlin got his maths wrong btw: I doubt we will find 50 million Slavs in the entirety of the Ukraine + Belarus + Kazakhstan. These territories are depopulating rapidly – the territories themselves are more interesting, than the aging, unproductive populace that inhabits them.

    • Replies: @Joach
    I completely disagree with your statement that the populace of Ukraine and Belarus don't matter, and that only their territories are interesting, or that they are not or cannot be productive. Belarus certainly is a productive country, and Ukraine has the human capital necessary to grow with the ideal geopolitical and political climate. Poroshenko and svidomism will guarantee misery for years to come. You're a strange kind of nationalist. I'd assume the population pyramid of Ukraine and Belarus are not radically different than the Russian one.
    , @Dissident

    the territories themselves are more interesting, than the aging, unproductive populace that inhabits them.
     
    Do you measure people's value and worth only in terms of a materialistic metric such as productivity? I doubt I am the first to get that impression from your comments.
  173. @LondonBob
    The two great British composers Gustav Holst and George Frideric Handel were Greater Germans. In English Protestantism music was discouraged, in Germany it was encouraged.

    Also Delius, a grandson of one of Blucher’s officers but surprisingly not Elgar.

  174. @Mr. Hack

    So instead of ridiculing and insulting Ukrainians when they claim medieval Russian descent, some praise is in order?...I am talking about historians, ethnologists, academia, folklore ensembles. For example, joint research of common history, demography and migrations in 12th-20th century, promotion/festivals of Belarus and Ukrainian regional culture, dialect, traditions in Russian Federation...Centuries of separate development and different influences, conditions can’t be erased.
     
    Your musings are sound and one would hope could influence the development of peaceful relations between the Ukrainians and Russians. But based on the crude ideas put forth by Russians like Karlin, this isn't in the cards. Their prism of nationality politics is built around the cave manlike notion of only might makes right, and absent that, then reach out to your Ukrainian neighbors and tear away their intellectual elites by luring them away by 'strip mining human capital': destroy, destroy, destroy...steal, steal, steal seems to be the Russian modus operandi.

    Claiming descent is perfectly and legitimate except that it is also accompanied by Ukrainians attempting to monopolize the Rus legacy while calling Russians Asiatic Muscovites… Something that Ukrainian nationalists, Poroshenko, and you yourself (though not AP) engage in – while still beseeching Russia to give you gas gibsmedats. The sheer chutzpah!

    Perhaps a stable base for positive relations could be found if the Ukraine was to be run by AP. But it’s not, it’s deeply hostile to everything to do with Russia (it doesn’t just topple Lenin statues, but also Suvorov’s). So Russia has no more cause to promote its success than Latvia’s.

    • Replies: @DFH
    At least Suvorov's statue is safe in Switzerland

    https://static.wixstatic.com/media/5e8bd5_667e06c390bf42aeae316b5d4bd7019e~mv2_d_2100_1392_s_2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1480,h_981,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/5e8bd5_667e06c390bf42aeae316b5d4bd7019e~mv2_d_2100_1392_s_2.jpg
    , @Felix Keverich
    What makes you think that AP's outlook is any different from Poroshenko's? FYI, Poroshenko used to be investor in Russia and served in Yanukovich government.

    All hohols are like this.
    , @Mr. Hack
    The idea that Ukrainian history tries to monopolize the Rus heritage was started by the great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky. BTW, since his monumental 9 volume magnum opus, A 'HIstory of Ukraine Rus', was all translated into the English language, almost all contemporary East European historians around the world have given it more than glowing reviews. Whether his thesis is credible or not, should lie in the purview of credible professional historians, not through the ramblings of a hodge podge of assorted hacks within the comments section of an electronic blog? Have you read it, or even his English language condensed one volume version first published in the 1940's?

    I think that AP would very coherently explain to you that there's ample reason for Ukrainians to be very hostile towards Russia today. Invading Ukrainian space and ripping off a chunk of its territory, and at the same time fomenting war in another part of its territory is not the basis for building good relations. Russian grievances with Ukraine could have been handled in a much saner and peaceful manner.
  175. @Anatoly Karlin
    Claiming descent is perfectly and legitimate except that it is also accompanied by Ukrainians attempting to monopolize the Rus legacy while calling Russians Asiatic Muscovites... Something that Ukrainian nationalists, Poroshenko, and you yourself (though not AP) engage in - while still beseeching Russia to give you gas gibsmedats. The sheer chutzpah!

    Perhaps a stable base for positive relations could be found if the Ukraine was to be run by AP. But it's not, it's deeply hostile to everything to do with Russia (it doesn't just topple Lenin statues, but also Suvorov's). So Russia has no more cause to promote its success than Latvia's.

    At least Suvorov’s statue is safe in Switzerland

  176. @reiner Tor

    having 200 million people (most of Ukraine + Belorussia + South Siberia) will be preferable to having 150 million due to the greater economies of scale and innovation that having more people enables.
     
    Except that you need to invest incredible energy to even annex these extra 50 million people, and then they will still be disloyal. By following the most clever plan, you can maybe get half of these to be loyal, the rest will still be disloyal. Meanwhile, the benefits from the economies of scale are minimal: you will only increase the total population by a bit over 30%, not much.

    When I was a small child I kept obsessing over old maps, how much larger Hungary used to be. I grew out of it. Your obsession with increasing the size of Russia (already the biggest country in the world) is childish.

    Apart from Keverich’s point about Russia actually being a Great Power-

    The equivalent would be me obsessing over Alaska, the Baltics, or most of central Asia.

    Which I don’t. They’re demographically unviable, just as Transylvania is demographically lost to Hungary (though IIRC Hungarians never constituted a majority there anyway).

    What we have is part of the Russian nation cosplaying as Ukrainians, parasiting on our history, while claiming that we’re not Russians. It is also aesthetically objectionable in the extreme. Assuming the cult has gone too far to be reversed, it needs to be contained.

    • Replies: @Yevardian

    Which I don’t. They’re demographically unviable, just as Transylvania is demographically lost to Hungary (though IIRC Hungarians never constituted a majority there anyway).
     
    I believe Magyars constituted the largest plurality there prior to the Ottoman invasions.
    , @Mr. XYZ
    Russia is certainly a Great Power, but it doesn't appear to have what it takes to win a serious confrontation with the West if it ever came to that.

    As for Ukraine, Ukrainians were never considered Great Russians. The hope appears to have been to transform them into Great Russians through universal literacy and several generations of assimilation. In this regard, it would be similar to Hungarians saying "We could have turned the Slovaks and Ruthenians into Hungarians if only our Magyarization policy in those territories had more time!"

    Transylvanian Romanians would have probably been harder for Hungary to assimilate and turn into Hungarians (Magyarize) due to their different religion, though.

    , @reiner Tor

    Keverich’s point about Russia actually being a Great Power
     
    In Hungary irredentists usually have the extremely smart and unique genius idea (no one had ever thought this before!) of aligning with a greater power. Like Germany before 1945, or Russia is usually mentioned in that context right now among hard nationalists. (Apparently there are still Hungarians interested in changing the borders. They are rare now, though many eyes will get wet at the thought of Greater Hungary.) If Russia started annexing Belarus and Kazakhstan (and occupying Ukraine, as Corporal Keverich proposes), how difficult would it be for a hard nationalist Hungarian government to align itself with this resurgent Russia? Well, when building castles in the air, you can afford to build them tall and pretty.

    IIRC Hungarians never constituted a majority there anyway
     
    Wrong, though Romanians will tell a different story, LOL. See below behind the more tag.

    Anyway, since 1920, no serious Hungarian political force wanted to get back the whole of Transylvania. The biggest problem was that by just pushing the border out some 50-100 kilometers (and often less), we could reduce the number of ethnic Hungarians in neighboring countries by some 70-80%, without adding many ethnic minorities. The successive ethnic cleansings (and the targeted ethnic settlement policy in the case of Romania and in the 1990s Serbia) in neighboring countries have made such border changes mostly nonviable, except along some parts of the Slovak border, a really small area in Ukraine, and a few villages here and there in Serbia and Romania. The Szekler (Székely) lands at the southeastern tip of Transylvania were always difficult, surrounded as they are and have always been for centuries in a sea of Romanians. Hungarian governments before 1940 didn't even want to get it back, but when offered by Hitler and Mussolini, couldn't resist the temptation. Hitler's motivation was that he didn't give some areas the Hungarians were actually asking for, and instead created a contentious and militarily indefensible border, with both parties dissatisfied. (The Székelys are usually considered some kind of über-Hungarians, so no Hungarian government was going to say no when asked if they wanted them. But the actual plans for the revision of the border never contained them, because they could only be gotten back if the border became militarily indefensible, or if we acquired an unmanageably huge Romanian population which we didn't want after 1918.)

    What we have is part of the Russian nation cosplaying as Ukrainians, parasiting on our history, while claiming that we’re not Russians.
     
    The objective reality is that they are the direct descendants of part of the original Rus people (if there ever was a unified Rus people at all), so "parasitizing on your history" is meaningless. They could claim (in fact, some of them do claim it) that it is you who are parasitizing on their history. But it's all just silliness. Another objective reality is that the vast majority of them are convinced that they are a different ethnicity, which would make them a different ethnicity even if some other objective realities (like genetic studies, different language, etc.) didn't confirm it as well. They are closely related to Russians, of course, but a separate ethnicity nevertheless.

    Prediction: no matter what you do, Ukrainians will not like Russians in the foreseeable future. Therefore, occupying their country will mean that you will have to pay for the occupation a lot of money and resources, including the part of your budget and population which could otherwise serve in your armed forces. In other words, instead of building armed forces which are competitive with that of China or the US at least in a limited sense, you will waste these resources and manpower on building a police force. Your ability to bankrupt Ukraine seems very limited to me, and I don't think you have the ability to attract most of their talent, though of course you might try. (It'll make it pretty easy for NATO to send Russia-hating but Russian-speaking spies to Russia. Though maybe they already have that ability, so it wouldn't matter much.)

    I'm also skeptical of your claim that Belarusians would enjoy it all that much if Russia just annexed them, but if that is so, then at least that's something I wouldn't mind. But annexing them if they didn't like it is something which would be a similar move as Hitler's annexation of rump Czechia: it'd convince all nations and greater powers that you are not agreement capable. After all, Belarus is your ally. If you just annex your allies, what can anyone expect of you?

    Similarly, I don't have an exact opinion about where the precise border between Russia and Ukraine should've been set in 2014 (obviously, as you note, it'd be difficult to change now). I agree that the claim against Northern Kazakhstan would be a nationalist (and not an imperialist) goal, though I'm not sure if it's worth obsessing about. No matter how nationalist, Kazakhstan has some reasons to actually be friendly to Russia, because the US is far away, and China is much stronger and fearsome, I'm not sure if in the big scheme of things, it's worth blowing away lots of soft power for some limited territorial gains. I wouldn't have lots of problems with it, but there'd be blowback everywhere - my opinion aside, Northern Kazakhstan's annexation won't be a popular move around the world: not in the Islamic world, probably not in the Chinese Politburo (though probably they'd be, meh), and definitely not in Europe. If you think they cannot hate you any more, just see how much hatred there'll be after Russia annexed Belarus and Northern Kazakhstan.



    Regarding ethnic composition of Transylvania. Written sources first mention Latin-speaking populations in the mountains (previous sources explicitly mentioned those areas as uninhabited) around the 12th century, though of course sources are pretty scarce. One argument that Romanians hadn't been there is that they are Orthodox (the same is true of Ruthenians): before 1054 there had been some Eastern Rite churches in Hungary, but they all belonged to the same church hierarchy after roughly 1000 (when the Kingdom of Hungary came into being and organized the official church), and after 1054 all Eastern Rite churches slowly switched to Western Rite and became fully integrated into the Catholic Church. Orthodox churches started to appear after the 12th century in some border regions, but they are thought (at least by Hungarian historians) to be related to immigrant populations. Those regions had been called "gyepű" (uninhabited borderland) and explicitly uninhabited in a number of previous sources, though of course it's difficult to say anything definitive due to the scarcity of sources. The Ottoman occupation was pretty hard on the ethnically Hungarian population. (It also destroyed most of the earlier sources.) Though Romanians often call the Principality of Transylvania a Romanian state, its leadership exclusively consisted of Hungarian aristocrats and noblemen, and the three "nations" of Transylvania represented in its diet were the Hungarians (i.e. Hungarian nobles), the Szeklers, and the Saxons. Now it was a vassal of the Ottomans, and pretty often the Ottomans sent some punitive expeditions there for one reason or another, including troops of Crimean Tatars. The population was mostly destroyed in the valleys (where the ethnically Hungarian population was concentrated), but the mountainous areas (where Romanians were concentrated) were spared. (The ethnically Hungarian Szeklers and the Saxon cities were also in mountainous areas, and so were also spared.) After the wars, Romanians moved into the now sparsely inhabited valleys. (This is how the Szeklers got cut off from the rest of the Hungarian population and found themselves in a sea of Romanians.) In the early 1700s another wave of Romanians came to Transylvania, after the Ottomans crushed some revolts in Moldova and Wallachia. So after the 18th century Hungarians have been a minority in Transylvania. (Let me mention one more fact, Romania got more than just Transylvania proper, for example the city of Arad.)
  177. @Mr. Hack
    My first lessons in the greatness of American exceptionalism were taught to me every single day of my childhood. I'd rush home after school to watch the 30 minute serial 'Superman' who fought for 'Truth, Justice and the American way.' In fact, I could relate to Superman very closely, whose parents were forced to send their son to a totally alien culture in order to keep him out of harm's way in their native land, that was destroyed by an alien outside civilization. Sound familiar? I have never had a hard time being a loyal American and at the same time remain loyal to the homeland of my parents. I don't know how Thorfinnsson sleeps at night, trying to remain a loyal American but at the same time posing as a modern day Vladimir Posner? :-)

    https://youtu.be/Q2l4bz1FT8U

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Yeah, I've thought about moving to Ukraine and retiring there. What Ukraine needs are laws that encourage dual citizenship. But then again Panama and Costa Rica are attractive alternatives, and they already allow for dual citizenship. :-)

    BTW, Superman has already died, I've been told. :-(
  178. @inertial

    I think that there is a core of people who believe that they are Ukrainian and they believe that Ukrainian is something different from Russian.
     
    Is Bavarian different from German? Depends.

    I have read a bit of WWII history and the Ukrainians in the large part behaved as if they were different from Russians.
     
    No they didn't.

    No they didn’t.

    I thought that proportionately there were more Ukrainian collaborators and fewer partisans as compared to Belarus.

    • Replies: @AP
    OTOH there was Vlasov and all his Russian troops allied with the Germans.

    Galicians clearly behaved differently towards Germans than did Russians or central and Eastern Ukrainians, but this had to do with Germans treating Galicians differently. At the very beginning, central and eastern Ukrainian soldiers, and Russians ones too, were surrendering and their villagers were optimistic about the Germans ridding them of the Soviet nightmare. But when it became clear that the Germans would treat the locals even worse than would the Soviets, central and eastern Ukrainians, and Russians, resisted them.
    , @inertial
    In the kind of WWII books you are likely to read, when they say Ukrainians they mean Galicians. But Galicians are not real Ukrainians. Or else the are the only real Ukrainians, take your pick.
  179. Perhaps by neoliberal domestic economic policies, AK means the following should no longer be a normal state of affairs:

    1. Having state-owned companies and banks and politically well-connected oligarchs consistently push out foreign rivals and smaller, private sector players. BP was pretty much hounded out of its well-regarded TNK-BP joint venture in 2013 and sold out to Rosneft after a campaign of pure political intimidation. Rosneft has also hoovered up smaller Russian energy players left, right and centre. The same urge for state control is playing out\played out in utilities (37% state ownership) pharma, the media sector, finance (64% state ownership) , defence, shipping etc. For any state-owned company, you can expect it to underperform an equivalent private sector company by 20 to 40% depending on the amount of political pressure and bureaucratic deadwood. That is a severe drag on the economy. Even now Poland with a population a quarter of Russia’s has over 850 public listed companies compared to fewer than 250 for Russia. And 40% of those are SOEs.

    2. Even the tech sector, one of the few non-natural resources bright spots is vulnerable to political action. Pavel Durov only founded Telegram (headquarters in Berlin) after a buddy of Putin’s forced the transfer of nearly half the shares of VK into his hands so he could consolidate it into Mail.ru. Now one of the brightest stars of the Russian tech scene is a citizen of Saint Kitts and Nevis and will probably never be back.

    3. The same drive for protectionism has led to Russia to impose close to five hundred trade barriers between 2008 to 2015, the second-highest after India. The protectionism has helped the domestic agriculture and automotive sector grow at the expense of Russian consumers and the private sector generally.

    4. Putting those together (plus sanctions) it is not surprising that Russia has had the lowest levels of capital investment as a proportion of GDP of any major emerging economy. It has been bumping along at about 20% for years now (that too mostly for oil and gas) when healthy, growing and developing economies have investment rates closer to 28-30%.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    1. The Russians are perfectly capable of drilling holes in the ground. As a Russian, I see no reason why companies from NATO countries should have access to our petroleum sector. They are welcome to share technology and invest in civilian manufacturing however.

    Your criticism of state-controlled enterprises is not backed by data. Sberbank is the best bank in Russia. Aeroflot is the best airline in Eastern Europe. Both are state-controlled.

    Private enterprise in Russia has a decidedly mixed record, and in my opinion, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

    4. Russia is not a "developing country". It is not one of those "tigers" in Asia. Russia is an old industrial economy, and its capital investment rate is roughly on par with Poland and other ex-Communist Europe.
  180. @Hyperborean
    I like it. But what kind of fabric is the cat drawn upon? It looks like cloth?

    Screen artifact from taking a quick phone photo of my touch monitor for Discord.

  181. @Anatoly Karlin
    Claiming descent is perfectly and legitimate except that it is also accompanied by Ukrainians attempting to monopolize the Rus legacy while calling Russians Asiatic Muscovites... Something that Ukrainian nationalists, Poroshenko, and you yourself (though not AP) engage in - while still beseeching Russia to give you gas gibsmedats. The sheer chutzpah!

    Perhaps a stable base for positive relations could be found if the Ukraine was to be run by AP. But it's not, it's deeply hostile to everything to do with Russia (it doesn't just topple Lenin statues, but also Suvorov's). So Russia has no more cause to promote its success than Latvia's.

    What makes you think that AP‘s outlook is any different from Poroshenko’s? FYI, Poroshenko used to be investor in Russia and served in Yanukovich government.

    All hohols are like this.

  182. @Ali Choudhury
    Perhaps by neoliberal domestic economic policies, AK means the following should no longer be a normal state of affairs:

    1. Having state-owned companies and banks and politically well-connected oligarchs consistently push out foreign rivals and smaller, private sector players. BP was pretty much hounded out of its well-regarded TNK-BP joint venture in 2013 and sold out to Rosneft after a campaign of pure political intimidation. Rosneft has also hoovered up smaller Russian energy players left, right and centre. The same urge for state control is playing out\played out in utilities (37% state ownership) pharma, the media sector, finance (64% state ownership) , defence, shipping etc. For any state-owned company, you can expect it to underperform an equivalent private sector company by 20 to 40% depending on the amount of political pressure and bureaucratic deadwood. That is a severe drag on the economy. Even now Poland with a population a quarter of Russia's has over 850 public listed companies compared to fewer than 250 for Russia. And 40% of those are SOEs.

    2. Even the tech sector, one of the few non-natural resources bright spots is vulnerable to political action. Pavel Durov only founded Telegram (headquarters in Berlin) after a buddy of Putin's forced the transfer of nearly half the shares of VK into his hands so he could consolidate it into Mail.ru. Now one of the brightest stars of the Russian tech scene is a citizen of Saint Kitts and Nevis and will probably never be back.

    3. The same drive for protectionism has led to Russia to impose close to five hundred trade barriers between 2008 to 2015, the second-highest after India. The protectionism has helped the domestic agriculture and automotive sector grow at the expense of Russian consumers and the private sector generally.

    4. Putting those together (plus sanctions) it is not surprising that Russia has had the lowest levels of capital investment as a proportion of GDP of any major emerging economy. It has been bumping along at about 20% for years now (that too mostly for oil and gas) when healthy, growing and developing economies have investment rates closer to 28-30%.

    1. The Russians are perfectly capable of drilling holes in the ground. As a Russian, I see no reason why companies from NATO countries should have access to our petroleum sector. They are welcome to share technology and invest in civilian manufacturing however.

    Your criticism of state-controlled enterprises is not backed by data. Sberbank is the best bank in Russia. Aeroflot is the best airline in Eastern Europe. Both are state-controlled.

    Private enterprise in Russia has a decidedly mixed record, and in my opinion, if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.

    4. Russia is not a “developing country”. It is not one of those “tigers” in Asia. Russia is an old industrial economy, and its capital investment rate is roughly on par with Poland and other ex-Communist Europe.

  183. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:

    “repairing the standing insult to the aesthetics of the world map represented by fake and gay countries such as Belarus and the Ukraine.” << This is why I read Karlin's blog. Hot takes all day.

    We need more reform in Russia first, because nothing can be done while people and (((journalists))) still unironically believe there is a ukranian ethnicity. I have always been perplexed by Russian ethnomasochists and traitors. Who do they think they are pleasing? To the West they are literal animals, to the East, well Chinese professor friends argue I should disregard their existence. Cutting a rant short, nothing can be done while the 5th column is lodged securely in our backside.

  184. @LondonBob
    The two great British composers Gustav Holst and George Frideric Handel were Greater Germans. In English Protestantism music was discouraged, in Germany it was encouraged.

    I remember having a beer with a Dutchman and an Irishman

    Ireland – great writers, (Joyce, Wilde, Yates, Beckett, Heaney) – cannot think of an Irish painter
    Holland – great painters (Rembrandt, Vermeer, Hals, Van Gogh, etc) – the only dutch writer the Irish bloke and I could think of was Ann Frank

    Russia’s writers (Pushkin, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Pasternak, Bubin, Nabukov etc), painters (Repin, Levitan, malevich, Kandinsky, Vrubel, Serovetc. )

    Ukraine – well they will try to claim Gogol and Prokofiev but the only one I can think of was Taras Shevchenko who lets be honest has limited international appeal

    • Replies: @AP

    Ukraine – well they will try to claim Gogol
     
    If you knew anything about Gogol you would know that he was an ethnic Ukrainian who moved to Russia and became a Russian patriot. But he was still an ethnic Ukrainian, born in Ukraine to Ukrainian and half-Ukrainian half-Polish parents, wrote Ukrainian plays as a kid, mixed with the Ukrainian diaspora in St. Petersburg as an adult, used Ukrainian themes in his early writings. Many of his Russian contemporaries viewed him as a foreigner.

    Gogol was sort of like the Polish writer Joseph Conrad who moved to England and wrote in English, except Conrad never used Polish themes in his writings while Gogol used Ukrainian subjects.

    Kazimir Malevich was a Ukrainian-speaking assimilated Pole from Ukraine, not a Russian.

    People who complain that Ukrainians try to steal Rus, steal Gogol and Malevich.

    A Ukrainian composer, Mykola Leontovych, wrote the famous Christmas song Carol of the Bells, based on a Ukrainian folk song. Leontovych was a Ukrainian nationalist and was murdered by Cheka in 1921.
    , @Dissident
    Two names to add under the Russian painter category:
    Victor Borisov-Musatov ( Victor Elpidiforovich Borisov-Musatov; Ви́ктор Эльпидифо́рович Бори́сов-Муса́тов)

    (A particularly serene favorite of mine: Boy with a Dog, 1895)

    and
    Nicholas Roerich (Nikolai Konstantinovich Rerikh; Никола́й Константи́нович Ре́рих)

  185. I was thinking that they should import the old Swiss Banking Laws to Crimea and make it the new Switzerland. Seems even more feasible, now that Switzerland no longer has private banking numbered accounts.

    But it looks like they have a reasonable development plan for Crimea (link below). Maybe they could add a nice world class aquarium like Sea World.

    How about some nuclear powered cruise ships? Maybe a submersible cruise ship?

    Public / private investment partnerships. Government does the infrastructure and leaves room for Marriott and Starbucks to fill the gaps.

    Looks like a nice hotel.

    https://www.rt.com/business/412826-crimean-hotel-best-travel-award/

    • Replies: @Pericles

    I was thinking that they should import the old Swiss Banking Laws to Crimea and make it the new Switzerland. Seems even more feasible, now that Switzerland no longer has private banking numbered accounts.

     

    Not a bad idea, since Russia wouldn't knuckle under to US pressure like most tax havens, but there would have to be substantial confidence building first.

    Don't forget to introduce that alternative to SWIFT while you're at it.
  186. @Anatoly Karlin
    Claiming descent is perfectly and legitimate except that it is also accompanied by Ukrainians attempting to monopolize the Rus legacy while calling Russians Asiatic Muscovites... Something that Ukrainian nationalists, Poroshenko, and you yourself (though not AP) engage in - while still beseeching Russia to give you gas gibsmedats. The sheer chutzpah!

    Perhaps a stable base for positive relations could be found if the Ukraine was to be run by AP. But it's not, it's deeply hostile to everything to do with Russia (it doesn't just topple Lenin statues, but also Suvorov's). So Russia has no more cause to promote its success than Latvia's.

    The idea that Ukrainian history tries to monopolize the Rus heritage was started by the great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky. BTW, since his monumental 9 volume magnum opus, A ‘HIstory of Ukraine Rus’, was all translated into the English language, almost all contemporary East European historians around the world have given it more than glowing reviews. Whether his thesis is credible or not, should lie in the purview of credible professional historians, not through the ramblings of a hodge podge of assorted hacks within the comments section of an electronic blog? Have you read it, or even his English language condensed one volume version first published in the 1940′s?

    I think that AP would very coherently explain to you that there’s ample reason for Ukrainians to be very hostile towards Russia today. Invading Ukrainian space and ripping off a chunk of its territory, and at the same time fomenting war in another part of its territory is not the basis for building good relations. Russian grievances with Ukraine could have been handled in a much saner and peaceful manner.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    BTW Karlin, if you closely look at my comments, you'll see that I'm almost as appreciative of Russian culture as AP is. Do you recall my comments where I've praised the Museum of Russian Art in Minneapolis? I've even also admitted my fondness for old time sovok soviet movies from the 1940's and 1950's, Mosfilm (but probably not for the same reasons that inspired the production of these films in the first place). Russian music is fabulous. Russian food? Haven't I already praised pelemeni (with vinegar) and Borodinsky bread enough already? Russian literature - although great, is too often veiled in darkness and reveals the bleak nature of the Russian soul. You should read it sometime. :-(
  187. @iffen
    No they didn’t.

    I thought that proportionately there were more Ukrainian collaborators and fewer partisans as compared to Belarus.

    OTOH there was Vlasov and all his Russian troops allied with the Germans.

    Galicians clearly behaved differently towards Germans than did Russians or central and Eastern Ukrainians, but this had to do with Germans treating Galicians differently. At the very beginning, central and eastern Ukrainian soldiers, and Russians ones too, were surrendering and their villagers were optimistic about the Germans ridding them of the Soviet nightmare. But when it became clear that the Germans would treat the locals even worse than would the Soviets, central and eastern Ukrainians, and Russians, resisted them.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    Ukraine in particular became a source of much needed cheap labor for German industries. History repeats itself
    , @iffen
    central and eastern Ukrainians, and Russians, resisted them.


    Do you have anything comparing Ukrainian partisan activity with Belarus partisans once the Red Army began its westward push?

    , @Mikhail
    Overall Vlasov's forces didn't engage in the level of violence against civilians as the OUN/UPA. Vlasov's forces also contributed to the liberation of Prague from the Nazis.
  188. @Polish Perspective
    You're making a cardinal error. You're assuming I like Germans on a social level. Germany's achievements to world civilisation is impossible to deny, regardless of how one feels about them as people. In general, I try to disentangle my views of a people with an objective look at history. To do otherwise is puerile. It has nothing to do with 'liking'. Most people's mental maps have not moved out of WWII, and your comment is an example of that.

    Well, I guess Poland would be different. But wherever they went in the US or Europe, Germans were highly regarded for their orderliness, work ethic, and respect for host peoples (though that may have been superficial).

  189. @neutral
    Your hero renounced his citizenship

    http://comicsalliance.com/superman-renounces-us-citizenship/

    Yeah, I’ve thought about moving to Ukraine and retiring there. What Ukraine needs are laws that encourage dual citizenship. But then again Panama and Costa Rica are attractive alternatives, and they already allow for dual citizenship. :-)

    BTW, Superman has already died, I’ve been told. :-(

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    > retiring to a country with no law enforcement
     
    Please, I don't even.
    , @Anon

    What Ukraine needs are laws that encourage dual citizenship
     
    For that Ukrainian powers that be would need to think less in nationalist paradigms, and in a more practical manner.
  190. @AP
    OTOH there was Vlasov and all his Russian troops allied with the Germans.

    Galicians clearly behaved differently towards Germans than did Russians or central and Eastern Ukrainians, but this had to do with Germans treating Galicians differently. At the very beginning, central and eastern Ukrainian soldiers, and Russians ones too, were surrendering and their villagers were optimistic about the Germans ridding them of the Soviet nightmare. But when it became clear that the Germans would treat the locals even worse than would the Soviets, central and eastern Ukrainians, and Russians, resisted them.

    Ukraine in particular became a source of much needed cheap labor for German industries. History repeats itself

  191. @Bliss

    Einstein’s mother is absolutely hideous. An incredibly ugly woman.
     
    You really are a piece of work. A truly evil character. I am guessing you get off on snuff videos. Disgusting.

    Guttenberg and Luther had less impact than the H-man, Marx, and Einstein?
     
    Hardly anyone knows or cares about Gutenberg. Besides, the Chinese were printing books long before him. Stupid of you to compare him to Einstein, who is one of the immortals, never to be forgotten.



    As for Luther, he has largely faded from the scene. You rarely hear even Protestant preachers mentioning his name. Marx too will fade soon enough. Hitler will last longer, but he too will become a distant memory. But Einstein is forever. Say hi to Einstein’s sister:

    https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/b9f8a958-41cf-404a-909b-2a40864a7365_1.e932532a41045c752ed121cae815b09b.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF

    She looks kind of like Malcolm Gladwell. Not a compliment.

    No wonder they hate us so much.

  192. @Mr. Hack
    The idea that Ukrainian history tries to monopolize the Rus heritage was started by the great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky. BTW, since his monumental 9 volume magnum opus, A 'HIstory of Ukraine Rus', was all translated into the English language, almost all contemporary East European historians around the world have given it more than glowing reviews. Whether his thesis is credible or not, should lie in the purview of credible professional historians, not through the ramblings of a hodge podge of assorted hacks within the comments section of an electronic blog? Have you read it, or even his English language condensed one volume version first published in the 1940's?

    I think that AP would very coherently explain to you that there's ample reason for Ukrainians to be very hostile towards Russia today. Invading Ukrainian space and ripping off a chunk of its territory, and at the same time fomenting war in another part of its territory is not the basis for building good relations. Russian grievances with Ukraine could have been handled in a much saner and peaceful manner.

    BTW Karlin, if you closely look at my comments, you’ll see that I’m almost as appreciative of Russian culture as AP is. Do you recall my comments where I’ve praised the Museum of Russian Art in Minneapolis? I’ve even also admitted my fondness for old time sovok soviet movies from the 1940′s and 1950′s, Mosfilm (but probably not for the same reasons that inspired the production of these films in the first place). Russian music is fabulous. Russian food? Haven’t I already praised pelemeni (with vinegar) and Borodinsky bread enough already? Russian literature – although great, is too often veiled in darkness and reveals the bleak nature of the Russian soul. You should read it sometime. :-(

  193. @Mr. Hack
    My first lessons in the greatness of American exceptionalism were taught to me every single day of my childhood. I'd rush home after school to watch the 30 minute serial 'Superman' who fought for 'Truth, Justice and the American way.' In fact, I could relate to Superman very closely, whose parents were forced to send their son to a totally alien culture in order to keep him out of harm's way in their native land, that was destroyed by an alien outside civilization. Sound familiar? I have never had a hard time being a loyal American and at the same time remain loyal to the homeland of my parents. I don't know how Thorfinnsson sleeps at night, trying to remain a loyal American but at the same time posing as a modern day Vladimir Posner? :-)

    https://youtu.be/Q2l4bz1FT8U

    Superman is a Jewish creation.

    I had to look up Vladimir Posner. Having read the Wikipedia article I remember my father talking about this guy.

    A really strange person to compare me to.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Superman is a Jewish creation.
     
    And Thorfinnsson is a Swedish creation. So?

    So much of modern American culture is a Jewish creation. They did a great job of it and should be praised for it!
    , @Mr. Hack
    You got something against Captain America too?

    https://youtu.be/QViKNVycDg8


    Marvel’s (and actually all comic books) ties to the Jewish community goes back much further than the 2,000′s, and was patriotically represented in no less the superhero than Captain America:

    Captain America was probably the first truly political superhero, taking a stance against Hitler and Nazism. The Jewish background of his creators, Jack Kirby (born Jacob Kurzberg) and Joe Simon (born Hymie Simon), directly influenced the character and the original plot of the Nazi-punching hero.
     
    http://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/library/reading_corner/Pages/jewish_captain_america.aspx

    Among many superb comic book artists of the golden and silver age, Jack Kirby (a Jew) stood at the very top of the creative pyramid.

    But yes, the many superheroes that have Jewish ties or roots has grown quite extensively, and are reviewed here:

    https://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/260853/everything-and-everyone-thats-jewish-in-the-new-avengers-movie

    And here:

    https://www.quora.com/Who-are-some-Jewish-superheroes-from-Marvel-and-DC-comics

    Jewish writers, artists and businessmen were instrumental in creating the American comic book industry.
  194. @Aslangeo
    I remember having a beer with a Dutchman and an Irishman

    Ireland - great writers, (Joyce, Wilde, Yates, Beckett, Heaney) - cannot think of an Irish painter
    Holland - great painters (Rembrandt, Vermeer, Hals, Van Gogh, etc) - the only dutch writer the Irish bloke and I could think of was Ann Frank

    Russia's writers (Pushkin, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Pasternak, Bubin, Nabukov etc), painters (Repin, Levitan, malevich, Kandinsky, Vrubel, Serovetc. )

    Ukraine - well they will try to claim Gogol and Prokofiev but the only one I can think of was Taras Shevchenko who lets be honest has limited international appeal

    Ukraine – well they will try to claim Gogol

    If you knew anything about Gogol you would know that he was an ethnic Ukrainian who moved to Russia and became a Russian patriot. But he was still an ethnic Ukrainian, born in Ukraine to Ukrainian and half-Ukrainian half-Polish parents, wrote Ukrainian plays as a kid, mixed with the Ukrainian diaspora in St. Petersburg as an adult, used Ukrainian themes in his early writings. Many of his Russian contemporaries viewed him as a foreigner.

    Gogol was sort of like the Polish writer Joseph Conrad who moved to England and wrote in English, except Conrad never used Polish themes in his writings while Gogol used Ukrainian subjects.

    Kazimir Malevich was a Ukrainian-speaking assimilated Pole from Ukraine, not a Russian.

    People who complain that Ukrainians try to steal Rus, steal Gogol and Malevich.

    A Ukrainian composer, Mykola Leontovych, wrote the famous Christmas song Carol of the Bells, based on a Ukrainian folk song. Leontovych was a Ukrainian nationalist and was murdered by Cheka in 1921.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    People who complain that Ukrainians try to steal Rus, steal Gogol and Malevich.
     
    Here's a quote for ya: (hope you still haven't forgotten your native language)


    Нам надо писать по-русски: надо стремиться к поддержке и упрочению одного, владычного языка для всех родных нам племен. Доминантой для русских, чехов, украинцев и сербов должна быть единая святыня — язык Пушкина, какою является Евангелие для всех христиан.
     
    , @Aslangeo
    I was winding you up about Gogol.

    If we start talking about composers, how about Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Borodin, Shostakovich, rimsky korsakov, Rachmaninov etc. As well as Prokofiev who I am sure you would like to claim, oh and let us not mention the bolshoy and mariinsky ballet

    Russia has a rich and varied culture, like other nations such as France, Germany, England, Italy and Spain. Russia has had a global cultural influence, students around the world study Tolstoy and Chekhov , Ukraine well not so much

    I terms of language purity I don’t buy it. English has been enriched by foreign words and so has Russian, backwater languages tend to borrow less
    , @Mikhail
    In the Russian Empire era, many Russians viewed Gogol as being from a closely related region to (for lack of a better term) Russia proper. Lermontov expressed pride in the part of the Russian Empire that he was from.
  195. @Mr. Hack
    Yeah, I've thought about moving to Ukraine and retiring there. What Ukraine needs are laws that encourage dual citizenship. But then again Panama and Costa Rica are attractive alternatives, and they already allow for dual citizenship. :-)

    BTW, Superman has already died, I've been told. :-(

    > retiring to a country with no law enforcement

    Please, I don’t even.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    ???...
  196. @Beckow
    It is a promising idea, but let me throw a few objections:

    1. Large % of Ukrainians is 'in love' with the West. It is hard to fight emotions with money. Especially since the precise gains-losses will always be ambiguous (see Mr. Hack above).

    2. The value of all those high-IQ, entrepreneur, heavily-credentialed people is way overstated in most discussions (Unz suffers from this a lot). They are not that valuable, actually most are probably a net drain on a society due to their inflated self-worth. Ukraine might even be better of with a smaller, less 'elite', down-to-earth population.

    3. West wouldn't sit idle. The kind of jiu-jitsu you propose has strong elements of Gorbachev ('whoops, what if we take your enemy away?'). We have all seen how that has worked out. West would simply up the ante and ruthlessly exploit any openings.

    4. It would take a very long time. (see 3. for consequences).

    It beats shooting at each other, but just barely. Maybe a well placed missile would work better.

    I like Karlin’s idea have not thought of it my self.

    So I will try and defend it here.

    1. You don’t need them in Russia. They are the ones you want to hurt with Karlin’s proposal by denying them leverage over pro Russian Ukranians.

    2. Real High IQ is extremely valuable and rare. Precisely targeting them would be a coup of it own. Administering IQ tests as part of the program for example.

    3. No they won’t but then they would have to stoop to Russian level to compete. So Ukraine will get brain drained even faster. Plus the west already has svidomi high IQ on their side as you said emotions matter. Russia would not concern it self with those.

    4. It’s all a long game. Everyone has nukes no more domination victory only cultural and scientific is possible now.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    I don't disagree with AK, I was only pointing out the potential obstacles.

    The game is also not that long. West has been losing its footing and they have to escalate in the next few years. This is the introductory phase.

    High IQ is extremely valuable and rare

     

    True, but it is also linked with behaviours that are, using a polite term, not 'state-affirming'. High IQ people tend toward relativism, ethnic ambiguity, even a touch of absurdism. You can observe it in the fact that high IQ geographic concentrations (capitols and university cities) are also the most wobbly when it comes to pro-one's-nation policies. That holds true almost everywhere, from London to NY, from Moscow to Budapest. Importing them in large numbers is a devil's bargain. On top of it, most high IQ individuals are high maintenance and may cost more than they produce.
  197. @AP
    OTOH there was Vlasov and all his Russian troops allied with the Germans.

    Galicians clearly behaved differently towards Germans than did Russians or central and Eastern Ukrainians, but this had to do with Germans treating Galicians differently. At the very beginning, central and eastern Ukrainian soldiers, and Russians ones too, were surrendering and their villagers were optimistic about the Germans ridding them of the Soviet nightmare. But when it became clear that the Germans would treat the locals even worse than would the Soviets, central and eastern Ukrainians, and Russians, resisted them.

    central and eastern Ukrainians, and Russians, resisted them.

    Do you have anything comparing Ukrainian partisan activity with Belarus partisans once the Red Army began its westward push?

  198. @AP

    Ukraine – well they will try to claim Gogol
     
    If you knew anything about Gogol you would know that he was an ethnic Ukrainian who moved to Russia and became a Russian patriot. But he was still an ethnic Ukrainian, born in Ukraine to Ukrainian and half-Ukrainian half-Polish parents, wrote Ukrainian plays as a kid, mixed with the Ukrainian diaspora in St. Petersburg as an adult, used Ukrainian themes in his early writings. Many of his Russian contemporaries viewed him as a foreigner.

    Gogol was sort of like the Polish writer Joseph Conrad who moved to England and wrote in English, except Conrad never used Polish themes in his writings while Gogol used Ukrainian subjects.

    Kazimir Malevich was a Ukrainian-speaking assimilated Pole from Ukraine, not a Russian.

    People who complain that Ukrainians try to steal Rus, steal Gogol and Malevich.

    A Ukrainian composer, Mykola Leontovych, wrote the famous Christmas song Carol of the Bells, based on a Ukrainian folk song. Leontovych was a Ukrainian nationalist and was murdered by Cheka in 1921.

    People who complain that Ukrainians try to steal Rus, steal Gogol and Malevich.

    Here’s a quote for ya: (hope you still haven’t forgotten your native language)

    Нам надо писать по-русски: надо стремиться к поддержке и упрочению одного, владычного языка для всех родных нам племен. Доминантой для русских, чехов, украинцев и сербов должна быть единая святыня — язык Пушкина, какою является Евангелие для всех христиан.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Russian is much less a pure Slavic language than Ukrainian. It' a hodge podge of Old Church Slavonic, Old Ukrainian, local Slavic 'village patois' French, German, Turkic, with an undertone of pronunciation in Finnish cadence.
    , @AP
    So Ukrainians, Czechs and Serbs should all abandon their languages and speak Russian. Good luck with that.

    As Gogol became older (and mentally ill lol) he became a Russian nationalist. But when he was younger he was more ambivalent.

    Gogol, “Vzgliad na sostavlenie Malorossii”:

    http://feb-web.ru/feb/gogol/texts/ps0/ps8/ps8-040-.ht

    Skip down to section six.

    " And southern Russia, under the powerful auspices of the Lithuanian princes, completely separated from the north. Any connection between them was ripped apart; there came to be two states, by the same name – Rus. One under the Tatar yoke, the other under one scepter with the Lithuanians. But there was no intercourse between them. Other laws, other customs, another goals, other communications, and other feats created… two completely different natures.”

    Gogol about Mazepa's conflict with Peter:

    http://feb-web.ru/feb/gogol/texts/ps0/ps9/ps9-083-.htm

    “This power, this gigantic might, plunged the independent state [samobytnoe gosudarstvo] remaining merely under the protection of Russia, into despondency. The people that belonged to Peter as private property, demeaned by slavery and despotism, submitted, though with grumbling. It was not only necessity but need, as we shall see later, that led them to submit. Their extraordinary ruler strove to elevate them, but his medicine was too strong. But what could be expected of a people so different from the Russians, who breathed freedom and robust Cossackdom and wished to live their own way of life? They were threatened by a loss of nationality [Gogol’s word: natsionalnost] and by having their rights made to a greater or lesser extent equal with the people who were personally owned by the Russian autocrat.”

    Typical Ukrainian nationalist tropes - Russians are slaves to a despot, Ukrainians are a free people.
  199. @AP

    Ukrainian prices are 30% cheaper, which isn’t anywhere near enough to close that gap – I mention it because its something that AP mentions a lot (quoting that guy from Lvov who claimed that $100 there is equivalent to $1,000 in Moscow).
     
    Yeah that guy was exaggerating.

    However Ukraine is more than 30% cheaper.

    Comparing Lviv to Moscow:

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Moscow&country2=Ukraine&city2=Lviv

    Consumer Prices in Lviv are 37.52% lower than in Moscow
    Consumer Prices Including Rent in Lviv are 48.19% lower than in Moscow
    Rent Prices in Lviv are 66.22% lower than in Moscow
    Restaurant Prices in Lviv are 56.48% lower than in Moscow
    Groceries Prices in Lviv are 33.91% lower than in Moscow
    Local Purchasing Power in Lviv is 48.07% lower than in Moscow

    A monthly salary of $1,400 in Lviv (typical programmer salary) is like $2,700 in Moscow. And quality in Lviv for things like food in restaurants is higher (although Moscow has better Georgian food).

    Similar story with Kiev:

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Moscow&country2=Ukraine&city2=Kiev&displayCurrency=USD

    But you would have to pay much more than the equivalent salary to attract people to a place with worse (much colder) climate, far from home, and where the potential incoming people hate the politics. A programmer making $1,400 in Lviv is most likely not going to move to Moscow for $2,700.

    After Maidan enough of Boeing's Ukrainian researchers in Moscow wanted to go to Ukraine that Boeing opened a second R & D facility there.

    I have no idea how accurate this website is:

    https://teleport.org/cities/kiev/salaries/

    https://teleport.org/cities/moscow/salaries/

    But according to it, median salary for research scientist in Kiev is $7,253 and in Moscow it is $16,078. Taking into account cost of living differences it's not a wide gulf.

    Yeah but crime, svidomi and etc swing it highly in favor of moving to Russia. You have grenade explosions all over your country as feral svidomi use armament from military for their own purposes. Ukraine is turning into giant Chechnya.

    • Replies: @AP
    What a bizarre idea of how life in Ukraine is. Crime in Ukraine is now down to 2013 level, after spiking in 2015. Try to put the Russian nationalist media down, repeating what you read there about Ukraine makes you look foolish.
  200. @Thorfinnsson
    Superman is a Jewish creation.

    I had to look up Vladimir Posner. Having read the Wikipedia article I remember my father talking about this guy.

    A really strange person to compare me to.

    Superman is a Jewish creation.

    And Thorfinnsson is a Swedish creation. So?

    So much of modern American culture is a Jewish creation. They did a great job of it and should be praised for it!

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    So much of modern American culture is a Jewish creation. They did a great job of it and should be praised for it!
     
    You see nothing... strange about this statement at all?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    I don't accept Jews as part of any nationality other than Jewish.

    The Jews need to be removed from America (and every other country).

    The few good Jews like Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried don't break the rule.

    Do you seriously think our contemporary culture is praiseworthy? I suppose you can admire its technical execution, but beyond that it's incredibly degenerate.
    , @Gerard2

    And Thorfinnsson is a Swedish creation. So?
     
    But the only excuse for your utter braindead amount of moronism is that you are a product of a toxic spillage infused with the typical Banderite, failure,loser scumbag rapist......raping a goat....in front of a school playground ( which isn't an exaggeration of what you stateless scumbags were doing in the early 1940's...before the CIA/MI6 helped you to escape in shame).

    This isn't meant to demean you or humiliate you...just to explain what a sick inbreeding tosser you are
    , @wild strawberries
    Mr. Hack says: "So much of modern American culture is a Jewish creation. They did a great job of it and should be praised for it!"

    Benjamin Ginsberg extols how his tribe has economically assisted historic European rulers advance their nations in FATAL EMBRACE; JEWS AND THE STATE by their banking establishments. The national bankruptcy and social upheaval that terminated their influence is ignored. Ben even chastises the English Barons for revolting against King John's demand to fund the invasion of Normandy London bankers had instigated. The world was blessed with the Magna Carta--the watershed from feudal domination to elected representative government.

    The economic system the clan imposed on the United States by skullduggery in 1913 has resulted in a $21 trillion [fraudulent] National Debt and still growing. This writer, relying upon an economic analysis from a professor teaching a graduate course in bank economics, concludes the Ponzi scheme imposed is inherently destined for bankruptcy. It is further alleged to involve criminal acts of embezzlement. Ref. https://thedailycoin.org/2018/08/16/a-look-at-the-federal-reserve-through-a-different-lens/

    If a person does not recognize that the U.S. perpetual war-monger is the result of Wall Street actions, I submit they have missed the obvious.

    I decline to praise Wall Street for these reasons.
  201. @anonymous coward

    > retiring to a country with no law enforcement
     
    Please, I don't even.

    ???…

  202. @DreadIlk
    Yeah but crime, svidomi and etc swing it highly in favor of moving to Russia. You have grenade explosions all over your country as feral svidomi use armament from military for their own purposes. Ukraine is turning into giant Chechnya.

    What a bizarre idea of how life in Ukraine is. Crime in Ukraine is now down to 2013 level, after spiking in 2015. Try to put the Russian nationalist media down, repeating what you read there about Ukraine makes you look foolish.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    There is no hot water...

    This might have something to do with rapidly warming attitudes towards Russia:

    48 percent of Ukrainians told the Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) that they hold a positive attitude toward Russia, according to survey results published on Wednesday, up from 37 percent last year.

    By contrast, only 32 percent of Ukrainian respondents said they hold negative views of Russia, down from 46 percent last year.

    KIIS reported that, for the first time since April 2014, a majority of Ukrainians thought they should share open borders with Russia.
     
    https://themoscowtimes.com/news/more-ukrainians-hold-positive-views-russia-than-negative-poll-says-63137

    This is Ukrainian poll
    , @DreadIlk
    Being in denial is nothing but expected from you. Riddle me this. What country going through civil war(if you prefer invasion) would have favorable conditions in any respect? I would sooner believe the crime statistics are doctored then to believe the situation improved.
  203. @anonymous coward

    People who complain that Ukrainians try to steal Rus, steal Gogol and Malevich.
     
    Here's a quote for ya: (hope you still haven't forgotten your native language)


    Нам надо писать по-русски: надо стремиться к поддержке и упрочению одного, владычного языка для всех родных нам племен. Доминантой для русских, чехов, украинцев и сербов должна быть единая святыня — язык Пушкина, какою является Евангелие для всех христиан.
     

    Russian is much less a pure Slavic language than Ukrainian. It’ a hodge podge of Old Church Slavonic, Old Ukrainian, local Slavic ‘village patois’ French, German, Turkic, with an undertone of pronunciation in Finnish cadence.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    If you actually spoke Ukrainian you'd know that it has a shitload more Turkic loans than Russian.
  204. @Mr. Hack

    Superman is a Jewish creation.
     
    And Thorfinnsson is a Swedish creation. So?

    So much of modern American culture is a Jewish creation. They did a great job of it and should be praised for it!

    So much of modern American culture is a Jewish creation. They did a great job of it and should be praised for it!

    You see nothing… strange about this statement at all?

  205. @Mr. Hack

    Superman is a Jewish creation.
     
    And Thorfinnsson is a Swedish creation. So?

    So much of modern American culture is a Jewish creation. They did a great job of it and should be praised for it!

    I don’t accept Jews as part of any nationality other than Jewish.

    The Jews need to be removed from America (and every other country).

    The few good Jews like Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried don’t break the rule.

    Do you seriously think our contemporary culture is praiseworthy? I suppose you can admire its technical execution, but beyond that it’s incredibly degenerate.

    • Agree: Felix Keverich
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    The Jews need to be removed from America (and every other country).

    The few good Jews like Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried don’t break the rule.
     

    So, I suspect that you'd banish the likes of Paul Unz and Paul Gottfried to their 'homeland' Israel? (how good of you, that you don't suggest a more permanent, 'final solution' to this pesky 'problem')'.

    Why stop with the Jews? Why not those of Swedish and Ukrainian descent too? Why should the indigenous, autochtonous Native Americans allow anybody else than themselves to populate this land?

    , @Dissident

    The Jews need to be removed from America (and every other country).
     
    I'm afraid to ask where you would have all of us go... But if the answer is the Zionist State that calls itself 'Israel', then as an emphatically non-Zionist Jew, I have to ask: Why should the Palestinian Arabs have to be stuck with all of ((us))?

    The few good Jews like Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried don’t break the rule.
     
    So what would you do with them?

    ~~~ ~~~~
    I certainly agree that contemporary culture is "incredibly degenerate".

    Going far back enough, though, is there a time that you (and others here) would consider Hollywood to have produced any wholesome or at least innocuous offerings?
    Any objections, for example, to a film such as Tom Sawyer: The Immortal Story of a Boy (1930) or Huckleberry Finn (1931)?

    Or an old-time radio production such as The Six Shooter (starred James Stewart as Britt Ponset)?
  206. @anonymous coward

    People who complain that Ukrainians try to steal Rus, steal Gogol and Malevich.
     
    Here's a quote for ya: (hope you still haven't forgotten your native language)


    Нам надо писать по-русски: надо стремиться к поддержке и упрочению одного, владычного языка для всех родных нам племен. Доминантой для русских, чехов, украинцев и сербов должна быть единая святыня — язык Пушкина, какою является Евангелие для всех христиан.
     

    So Ukrainians, Czechs and Serbs should all abandon their languages and speak Russian. Good luck with that.

    As Gogol became older (and mentally ill lol) he became a Russian nationalist. But when he was younger he was more ambivalent.

    Gogol, “Vzgliad na sostavlenie Malorossii”:

    http://feb-web.ru/feb/gogol/texts/ps0/ps8/ps8-040-.ht

    Skip down to section six.

    ” And southern Russia, under the powerful auspices of the Lithuanian princes, completely separated from the north. Any connection between them was ripped apart; there came to be two states, by the same name – Rus. One under the Tatar yoke, the other under one scepter with the Lithuanians. But there was no intercourse between them. Other laws, other customs, another goals, other communications, and other feats created… two completely different natures.”

    Gogol about Mazepa’s conflict with Peter:

    http://feb-web.ru/feb/gogol/texts/ps0/ps9/ps9-083-.htm

    “This power, this gigantic might, plunged the independent state [samobytnoe gosudarstvo] remaining merely under the protection of Russia, into despondency. The people that belonged to Peter as private property, demeaned by slavery and despotism, submitted, though with grumbling. It was not only necessity but need, as we shall see later, that led them to submit. Their extraordinary ruler strove to elevate them, but his medicine was too strong. But what could be expected of a people so different from the Russians, who breathed freedom and robust Cossackdom and wished to live their own way of life? They were threatened by a loss of nationality [Gogol’s word: natsionalnost] and by having their rights made to a greater or lesser extent equal with the people who were personally owned by the Russian autocrat.”

    Typical Ukrainian nationalist tropes – Russians are slaves to a despot, Ukrainians are a free people.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Typical Ukrainian nationalist tropes – Russians are slaves to a despot, Ukrainians are a free people.
     
    Read the quote again. It's about Peter I specifically, not some nebulous "Russian mentality". And yes, the fact that Peter I was a horrible ruler and a despot is not a controversial view in Russia.
    , @Mikhail
    Soviet like psychiatry:

    As Gogol became older (and mentally ill lol) he became a Russian nationalist.
     
    In other words, he became wiser with age.
  207. @AP
    What a bizarre idea of how life in Ukraine is. Crime in Ukraine is now down to 2013 level, after spiking in 2015. Try to put the Russian nationalist media down, repeating what you read there about Ukraine makes you look foolish.

    There is no hot water…

    This might have something to do with rapidly warming attitudes towards Russia:

    48 percent of Ukrainians told the Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) that they hold a positive attitude toward Russia, according to survey results published on Wednesday, up from 37 percent last year.

    By contrast, only 32 percent of Ukrainian respondents said they hold negative views of Russia, down from 46 percent last year.

    KIIS reported that, for the first time since April 2014, a majority of Ukrainians thought they should share open borders with Russia.

    https://themoscowtimes.com/news/more-ukrainians-hold-positive-views-russia-than-negative-poll-says-63137

    This is Ukrainian poll

    • Replies: @AP

    There is no hot water…
     
    There is no hot water in 30% of Kiev. We went over this. Russian sources claim there is no hot water in 30% of Russian homes and 20% of urban Russian homes..

    As war in East winds down Ukrainians are calmer about Russia.

    Forty-eight percent of Ukrainians told the Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) that they hold a positive attitude toward Russia, according to survey results published on Wednesday, up from 37 percent last year.

    By contrast, only 32 percent of Ukrainian respondents said they hold negative views of Russia, down from 46 percent last year.

    Meanwhile, only one-third of Russian respondents expressed positive attitudes towards Ukraine this year, the independent Levada Center reported, and a majority of Russians said they viewed Ukraine negatively (55 percent).
     
    Looks like Russians are greater victims of propaganda than Ukrainians :-)

    Keep in kind that in early 2014, 80% of Ukrainians had a positive view of Russia.

    KIIS reported that, for the first time since April 2014, a majority of Ukrainians thought they should share open borders with Russia.
     
    This means that a majority don't want the border to be closed and don't want to have visa controls between the two countries. That's not saying much.

    Survey here:

    https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=795&page=1

    38% of Ukrainians want closed borders with visa controls between Russia and Ukraine. It's probably very rare for so many residents of a much-poorer country to want such relations with a much wealthier neighbor.

    50% of Ukrainians want two countries with normal friendly relations without visas and customs.

    4% of Ukrainians want union.

    The rest are undecided.

    In Russia, 32% of Russians want closed borders with visa control, 45% want two countries with no visas or customs, and 16% of Russians want union between the two countries.
    , @Joach
    That's good news, finally something to celebrate.

    For the first time since 2014, a majority of Ukrainians hold a positive view of Russia.

    More Ukrainians say they have a positive view of Russia than a year ago despite continuing conflicts between the two countries, according to a joint Russian-Ukrainian poll, while a majority of Russians say they continue to see Ukraine in a negative light.
     
    The Russians need to change their attitude, though. That's not hard for the state media to accomplish if it so wishes. The disgust is understandable, having its origins in the openly hostile coup of 2014 and the explosion of Russophobia whipped up by NGOs and foreign-supported/funded public figures and media outlets. Hromadske TV is such an outlet, having among its co-founders the Afghan-Ukrainian Mustafa Nayyem.

    In 2010, Nayem was briefly detained by police officers, reportedly as a result of racial profiling for "persons of Caucasian appearance" (a common local term for people from the Caucasus). The following day, Nayem wrote an article in which described the events that led to his detention. He stated, "Xenophobia should not become the face of Ukrainian nationality" and requested the firing of one of the officers responsible.
     
    That's just the tip of the iceberg. "Grants" are dispensed to Trotskyite Russophobes while nationalists are sidelined from the above and the population is slowly brainwashed. A few weeks ago I compared the likes/dislikes of the official coverage by RFE/RL (Ukrainian branch) of the Pride march in Kiev from 2015 to 2018. Without exception, the likes grew a few percentage points year after year and in 2018 (the 4th year of the event) the likes almost hit 50%.

    One of the commenters which were among the most liked said that it's worse than Kiselyov. Poor souls, they don't know what hit them. In 30 years the standard attitude of Ukrainians will be a strange mixture of Russophobia, antinationalism, homophilia and minority worship — unless it resumes integration with Russia.
  208. @Thorfinnsson
    I don't accept Jews as part of any nationality other than Jewish.

    The Jews need to be removed from America (and every other country).

    The few good Jews like Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried don't break the rule.

    Do you seriously think our contemporary culture is praiseworthy? I suppose you can admire its technical execution, but beyond that it's incredibly degenerate.

    The Jews need to be removed from America (and every other country).

    The few good Jews like Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried don’t break the rule.

    So, I suspect that you’d banish the likes of Paul Unz and Paul Gottfried to their ‘homeland’ Israel? (how good of you, that you don’t suggest a more permanent, ‘final solution’ to this pesky ‘problem’)’.

    Why stop with the Jews? Why not those of Swedish and Ukrainian descent too? Why should the indigenous, autochtonous Native Americans allow anybody else than themselves to populate this land?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I'd be happy to grant exemptions to the few demonstrable righteous Jews. But they still could not be permitted to reproduce. And actually the latter caveat presents an alternative to deportation as well. Live out your life in America, but you don't get to reproduce or influence politics/culture. Don't like it? Emigrate.

    Swedish and Ukrainian descent? Well you might have a point about those of Ukrainian descent. :)

    America is a European country. The Amerindians were defeated and largely replaced.

    It's also not clear that it is in their interests to have a homogeneous nation-state because they are incompetent, unlike us. Whereas we suffer negative consequences from more or less every single minority whom we foolishly allowed into the country (or brought over in chains).

    The Jews, however, along with the blacks, are a special case in that they cause extreme problems.

  209. @Mr. Hack
    Russian is much less a pure Slavic language than Ukrainian. It' a hodge podge of Old Church Slavonic, Old Ukrainian, local Slavic 'village patois' French, German, Turkic, with an undertone of pronunciation in Finnish cadence.

    If you actually spoke Ukrainian you’d know that it has a shitload more Turkic loans than Russian.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    You're right it does (as well a Polish too). Turkish aside, Russian has loads more loan word than Ukrainian!
  210. @AP
    So Ukrainians, Czechs and Serbs should all abandon their languages and speak Russian. Good luck with that.

    As Gogol became older (and mentally ill lol) he became a Russian nationalist. But when he was younger he was more ambivalent.

    Gogol, “Vzgliad na sostavlenie Malorossii”:

    http://feb-web.ru/feb/gogol/texts/ps0/ps8/ps8-040-.ht

    Skip down to section six.

    " And southern Russia, under the powerful auspices of the Lithuanian princes, completely separated from the north. Any connection between them was ripped apart; there came to be two states, by the same name – Rus. One under the Tatar yoke, the other under one scepter with the Lithuanians. But there was no intercourse between them. Other laws, other customs, another goals, other communications, and other feats created… two completely different natures.”

    Gogol about Mazepa's conflict with Peter:

    http://feb-web.ru/feb/gogol/texts/ps0/ps9/ps9-083-.htm

    “This power, this gigantic might, plunged the independent state [samobytnoe gosudarstvo] remaining merely under the protection of Russia, into despondency. The people that belonged to Peter as private property, demeaned by slavery and despotism, submitted, though with grumbling. It was not only necessity but need, as we shall see later, that led them to submit. Their extraordinary ruler strove to elevate them, but his medicine was too strong. But what could be expected of a people so different from the Russians, who breathed freedom and robust Cossackdom and wished to live their own way of life? They were threatened by a loss of nationality [Gogol’s word: natsionalnost] and by having their rights made to a greater or lesser extent equal with the people who were personally owned by the Russian autocrat.”

    Typical Ukrainian nationalist tropes - Russians are slaves to a despot, Ukrainians are a free people.

    Typical Ukrainian nationalist tropes – Russians are slaves to a despot, Ukrainians are a free people.

    Read the quote again. It’s about Peter I specifically, not some nebulous “Russian mentality”. And yes, the fact that Peter I was a horrible ruler and a despot is not a controversial view in Russia.

    • Replies: @AP
    Russians, according to Gogol: The people that belonged to Peter as private property, demeaned by slavery and despotism, submitted, though with grumbling

    Little Russians/Ukrainians, according to Gogol: breathed freedom and robust Cossackdom and wished to live their own way of life
  211. @anonymous coward
    If you actually spoke Ukrainian you'd know that it has a shitload more Turkic loans than Russian.

    You’re right it does (as well a Polish too). Turkish aside, Russian has loads more loan word than Ukrainian!

  212. @Felix Keverich
    There is no hot water...

    This might have something to do with rapidly warming attitudes towards Russia:

    48 percent of Ukrainians told the Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) that they hold a positive attitude toward Russia, according to survey results published on Wednesday, up from 37 percent last year.

    By contrast, only 32 percent of Ukrainian respondents said they hold negative views of Russia, down from 46 percent last year.

    KIIS reported that, for the first time since April 2014, a majority of Ukrainians thought they should share open borders with Russia.
     
    https://themoscowtimes.com/news/more-ukrainians-hold-positive-views-russia-than-negative-poll-says-63137

    This is Ukrainian poll

    There is no hot water…

    There is no hot water in 30% of Kiev. We went over this. Russian sources claim there is no hot water in 30% of Russian homes and 20% of urban Russian homes..

    As war in East winds down Ukrainians are calmer about Russia.

    Forty-eight percent of Ukrainians told the Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) that they hold a positive attitude toward Russia, according to survey results published on Wednesday, up from 37 percent last year.

    By contrast, only 32 percent of Ukrainian respondents said they hold negative views of Russia, down from 46 percent last year.

    Meanwhile, only one-third of Russian respondents expressed positive attitudes towards Ukraine this year, the independent Levada Center reported, and a majority of Russians said they viewed Ukraine negatively (55 percent).

    Looks like Russians are greater victims of propaganda than Ukrainians :-)

    Keep in kind that in early 2014, 80% of Ukrainians had a positive view of Russia.

    KIIS reported that, for the first time since April 2014, a majority of Ukrainians thought they should share open borders with Russia.

    This means that a majority don’t want the border to be closed and don’t want to have visa controls between the two countries. That’s not saying much.

    Survey here:

    https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=795&page=1

    38% of Ukrainians want closed borders with visa controls between Russia and Ukraine. It’s probably very rare for so many residents of a much-poorer country to want such relations with a much wealthier neighbor.

    50% of Ukrainians want two countries with normal friendly relations without visas and customs.

    4% of Ukrainians want union.

    The rest are undecided.

    In Russia, 32% of Russians want closed borders with visa control, 45% want two countries with no visas or customs, and 16% of Russians want union between the two countries.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    much wealthier neighbor.
     
    A rare moment of honesty from you here.

    Visa supporters are Galician nutters no doubt. They mostly work in Poland anyway, and don't mind screwing over their Eastern compatriots.
  213. @anonymous coward

    Typical Ukrainian nationalist tropes – Russians are slaves to a despot, Ukrainians are a free people.
     
    Read the quote again. It's about Peter I specifically, not some nebulous "Russian mentality". And yes, the fact that Peter I was a horrible ruler and a despot is not a controversial view in Russia.

    Russians, according to Gogol: The people that belonged to Peter as private property, demeaned by slavery and despotism, submitted, though with grumbling

    Little Russians/Ukrainians, according to Gogol: breathed freedom and robust Cossackdom and wished to live their own way of life

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    That's another distortion on your part. As AC notes, numerous Russians opposed to svido views, have a negative view of Peter. Know some of them in the ROCOR, with others in that group taking different views, ranging from nuanced to diametrically opposed.
  214. @AP

    Ukraine – well they will try to claim Gogol
     
    If you knew anything about Gogol you would know that he was an ethnic Ukrainian who moved to Russia and became a Russian patriot. But he was still an ethnic Ukrainian, born in Ukraine to Ukrainian and half-Ukrainian half-Polish parents, wrote Ukrainian plays as a kid, mixed with the Ukrainian diaspora in St. Petersburg as an adult, used Ukrainian themes in his early writings. Many of his Russian contemporaries viewed him as a foreigner.

    Gogol was sort of like the Polish writer Joseph Conrad who moved to England and wrote in English, except Conrad never used Polish themes in his writings while Gogol used Ukrainian subjects.

    Kazimir Malevich was a Ukrainian-speaking assimilated Pole from Ukraine, not a Russian.

    People who complain that Ukrainians try to steal Rus, steal Gogol and Malevich.

    A Ukrainian composer, Mykola Leontovych, wrote the famous Christmas song Carol of the Bells, based on a Ukrainian folk song. Leontovych was a Ukrainian nationalist and was murdered by Cheka in 1921.

    I was winding you up about Gogol.

    If we start talking about composers, how about Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Borodin, Shostakovich, rimsky korsakov, Rachmaninov etc. As well as Prokofiev who I am sure you would like to claim, oh and let us not mention the bolshoy and mariinsky ballet

    Russia has a rich and varied culture, like other nations such as France, Germany, England, Italy and Spain. Russia has had a global cultural influence, students around the world study Tolstoy and Chekhov , Ukraine well not so much

    I terms of language purity I don’t buy it. English has been enriched by foreign words and so has Russian, backwater languages tend to borrow less

    • Replies: @AP
    You have very adequately described how Russian rule has been bad for Ukrainian cultural production.

    That having been said, I suspect more of the world's people recognize Carol of the Bells than recognize anything written by Mussorgsky, Borodin, Shostakovich, Rimsky Korsakov, or Rachmaninov.

  215. @Mr. Hack

    The Jews need to be removed from America (and every other country).

    The few good Jews like Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried don’t break the rule.
     

    So, I suspect that you'd banish the likes of Paul Unz and Paul Gottfried to their 'homeland' Israel? (how good of you, that you don't suggest a more permanent, 'final solution' to this pesky 'problem')'.

    Why stop with the Jews? Why not those of Swedish and Ukrainian descent too? Why should the indigenous, autochtonous Native Americans allow anybody else than themselves to populate this land?

    I’d be happy to grant exemptions to the few demonstrable righteous Jews. But they still could not be permitted to reproduce. And actually the latter caveat presents an alternative to deportation as well. Live out your life in America, but you don’t get to reproduce or influence politics/culture. Don’t like it? Emigrate.

    Swedish and Ukrainian descent? Well you might have a point about those of Ukrainian descent. :)

    America is a European country. The Amerindians were defeated and largely replaced.

    It’s also not clear that it is in their interests to have a homogeneous nation-state because they are incompetent, unlike us. Whereas we suffer negative consequences from more or less every single minority whom we foolishly allowed into the country (or brought over in chains).

    The Jews, however, along with the blacks, are a special case in that they cause extreme problems.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    The Jews, however, along with the blacks, are a special case in that they cause extreme problems.
     
    Perhaps part of the problem, aside from their ethnic nepotism, is simply that they are insane?

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8123-insanity#ixzz0tR7AYwCY

    https://www.henriettes-herb.com/eclectic/journals/nemaq1915/02-jews.html
    , @Mr. Hack

    The Jews, however, along with the blacks, are a special case in that they cause extreme problems.
     
    Comparing the Jews with the blacks in the US is literally a black and white comparison. Besides adding much to the American cultural landscape, Jews have been fundamental in promoting US business interests. Look at Trump (your hero, I guess), isn't he surrounded by Jews in all strata of his administration - isn't he doing a swell job with the economy?

    BTW, the 'degenrate' culture that's evolved in America hasn't seemed to deter you from being a pop music afficiando. I bet that you even own and ride a Harley too (maybe not, because you surely would have bragged about it by now). :-)

  216. @Aslangeo
    I was winding you up about Gogol.

    If we start talking about composers, how about Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Borodin, Shostakovich, rimsky korsakov, Rachmaninov etc. As well as Prokofiev who I am sure you would like to claim, oh and let us not mention the bolshoy and mariinsky ballet

    Russia has a rich and varied culture, like other nations such as France, Germany, England, Italy and Spain. Russia has had a global cultural influence, students around the world study Tolstoy and Chekhov , Ukraine well not so much

    I terms of language purity I don’t buy it. English has been enriched by foreign words and so has Russian, backwater languages tend to borrow less

    You have very adequately described how Russian rule has been bad for Ukrainian cultural production.

    That having been said, I suspect more of the world’s people recognize Carol of the Bells than recognize anything written by Mussorgsky, Borodin, Shostakovich, Rimsky Korsakov, or Rachmaninov.

    • Replies: @Aslangeo
    Some countries have culture, sone just don’t,

    nothing to do with who ruled them, after all Ireland produced some great literature under British rule, and Tragore from India got the Nobel prize for literature in 1913.
  217. @AP

    There is no hot water…
     
    There is no hot water in 30% of Kiev. We went over this. Russian sources claim there is no hot water in 30% of Russian homes and 20% of urban Russian homes..

    As war in East winds down Ukrainians are calmer about Russia.

    Forty-eight percent of Ukrainians told the Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) that they hold a positive attitude toward Russia, according to survey results published on Wednesday, up from 37 percent last year.

    By contrast, only 32 percent of Ukrainian respondents said they hold negative views of Russia, down from 46 percent last year.

    Meanwhile, only one-third of Russian respondents expressed positive attitudes towards Ukraine this year, the independent Levada Center reported, and a majority of Russians said they viewed Ukraine negatively (55 percent).
     
    Looks like Russians are greater victims of propaganda than Ukrainians :-)

    Keep in kind that in early 2014, 80% of Ukrainians had a positive view of Russia.

    KIIS reported that, for the first time since April 2014, a majority of Ukrainians thought they should share open borders with Russia.
     
    This means that a majority don't want the border to be closed and don't want to have visa controls between the two countries. That's not saying much.

    Survey here:

    https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=795&page=1

    38% of Ukrainians want closed borders with visa controls between Russia and Ukraine. It's probably very rare for so many residents of a much-poorer country to want such relations with a much wealthier neighbor.

    50% of Ukrainians want two countries with normal friendly relations without visas and customs.

    4% of Ukrainians want union.

    The rest are undecided.

    In Russia, 32% of Russians want closed borders with visa control, 45% want two countries with no visas or customs, and 16% of Russians want union between the two countries.

    much wealthier neighbor.

    A rare moment of honesty from you here.

    Visa supporters are Galician nutters no doubt. They mostly work in Poland anyway, and don’t mind screwing over their Eastern compatriots.

    • Replies: @AP

    much wealthier neighbor.

    A rare moment of honesty from you here.
     
    While no one is perfect, pretty much everything I've written here about Ukraine has been correct and you have failed to disprove it, as in the post you have replied to.

    Visa supporters are Galician nutters no doubt. They mostly work in Poland anyway, and don’t mind screwing over their Eastern compatriots.
     
    58% of western Ukrainians, 39% of central Ukrainians, 26% of southern Ukrainians, and 20% of eastern Ukrainians (!!!) want visa controls with Russia.
  218. @Thorfinnsson
    I'd be happy to grant exemptions to the few demonstrable righteous Jews. But they still could not be permitted to reproduce. And actually the latter caveat presents an alternative to deportation as well. Live out your life in America, but you don't get to reproduce or influence politics/culture. Don't like it? Emigrate.

    Swedish and Ukrainian descent? Well you might have a point about those of Ukrainian descent. :)

    America is a European country. The Amerindians were defeated and largely replaced.

    It's also not clear that it is in their interests to have a homogeneous nation-state because they are incompetent, unlike us. Whereas we suffer negative consequences from more or less every single minority whom we foolishly allowed into the country (or brought over in chains).

    The Jews, however, along with the blacks, are a special case in that they cause extreme problems.

    The Jews, however, along with the blacks, are a special case in that they cause extreme problems.

    Perhaps part of the problem, aside from their ethnic nepotism, is simply that they are insane?

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8123-insanity#ixzz0tR7AYwCY

    https://www.henriettes-herb.com/eclectic/journals/nemaq1915/02-jews.html

  219. @AP
    You have very adequately described how Russian rule has been bad for Ukrainian cultural production.

    That having been said, I suspect more of the world's people recognize Carol of the Bells than recognize anything written by Mussorgsky, Borodin, Shostakovich, Rimsky Korsakov, or Rachmaninov.

    Some countries have culture, sone just don’t,

    nothing to do with who ruled them, after all Ireland produced some great literature under British rule, and Tragore from India got the Nobel prize for literature in 1913.

    • Replies: @DFH

    Ireland produced some great literature under British rule,
     
    Yeah, almost all of it people who were ethnically British
  220. @Aslangeo
    Some countries have culture, sone just don’t,

    nothing to do with who ruled them, after all Ireland produced some great literature under British rule, and Tragore from India got the Nobel prize for literature in 1913.

    Ireland produced some great literature under British rule,

    Yeah, almost all of it people who were ethnically British

  221. @Thorfinnsson
    I'd be happy to grant exemptions to the few demonstrable righteous Jews. But they still could not be permitted to reproduce. And actually the latter caveat presents an alternative to deportation as well. Live out your life in America, but you don't get to reproduce or influence politics/culture. Don't like it? Emigrate.

    Swedish and Ukrainian descent? Well you might have a point about those of Ukrainian descent. :)

    America is a European country. The Amerindians were defeated and largely replaced.

    It's also not clear that it is in their interests to have a homogeneous nation-state because they are incompetent, unlike us. Whereas we suffer negative consequences from more or less every single minority whom we foolishly allowed into the country (or brought over in chains).

    The Jews, however, along with the blacks, are a special case in that they cause extreme problems.

    The Jews, however, along with the blacks, are a special case in that they cause extreme problems.

    Comparing the Jews with the blacks in the US is literally a black and white comparison. Besides adding much to the American cultural landscape, Jews have been fundamental in promoting US business interests. Look at Trump (your hero, I guess), isn’t he surrounded by Jews in all strata of his administration – isn’t he doing a swell job with the economy?

    BTW, the ‘degenrate’ culture that’s evolved in America hasn’t seemed to deter you from being a pop music afficiando. I bet that you even own and ride a Harley too (maybe not, because you surely would have bragged about it by now). :-)

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Americans are excellent businessmen. We don't need the Jews to succeed in the market. And if you think the Jews add to our cultural landscape you're not paying attention (or are crazy).

    The blacks and the Jews are indeed very different, but they're alike in that both are fundamentally destructive and parasitic.

    Trump is indeed useless on JQ. He's a transitional rather than a transformational figure. But he also happens to be very cool, so I can't help liking the guy.

    As far as my own consumption of culture goes, I happen to be a degenerate. I drink, do drugs, fornicate, etc. Woke up in another strange woman's home this morning. Trying to reform. At least I don't gamble, cheat, steal, or lie.

    No motorcycle, but I am looking at getting one. Not a Harley as they're for boomers in my view. I like this one: https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/models/heritage/rninetracer.html
  222. @Felix Keverich

    much wealthier neighbor.
     
    A rare moment of honesty from you here.

    Visa supporters are Galician nutters no doubt. They mostly work in Poland anyway, and don't mind screwing over their Eastern compatriots.

    much wealthier neighbor.

    A rare moment of honesty from you here.

    While no one is perfect, pretty much everything I’ve written here about Ukraine has been correct and you have failed to disprove it, as in the post you have replied to.

    Visa supporters are Galician nutters no doubt. They mostly work in Poland anyway, and don’t mind screwing over their Eastern compatriots.

    58% of western Ukrainians, 39% of central Ukrainians, 26% of southern Ukrainians, and 20% of eastern Ukrainians (!!!) want visa controls with Russia.

  223. @Mr. Hack

    The Jews, however, along with the blacks, are a special case in that they cause extreme problems.
     
    Comparing the Jews with the blacks in the US is literally a black and white comparison. Besides adding much to the American cultural landscape, Jews have been fundamental in promoting US business interests. Look at Trump (your hero, I guess), isn't he surrounded by Jews in all strata of his administration - isn't he doing a swell job with the economy?

    BTW, the 'degenrate' culture that's evolved in America hasn't seemed to deter you from being a pop music afficiando. I bet that you even own and ride a Harley too (maybe not, because you surely would have bragged about it by now). :-)

    Americans are excellent businessmen. We don’t need the Jews to succeed in the market. And if you think the Jews add to our cultural landscape you’re not paying attention (or are crazy).

    The blacks and the Jews are indeed very different, but they’re alike in that both are fundamentally destructive and parasitic.

    Trump is indeed useless on JQ. He’s a transitional rather than a transformational figure. But he also happens to be very cool, so I can’t help liking the guy.

    As far as my own consumption of culture goes, I happen to be a degenerate. I drink, do drugs, fornicate, etc. Woke up in another strange woman’s home this morning. Trying to reform. At least I don’t gamble, cheat, steal, or lie.

    No motorcycle, but I am looking at getting one. Not a Harley as they’re for boomers in my view. I like this one: https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/models/heritage/rninetracer.html

    • Replies: @AP
    Please don't use an organ donation machine.
    , @Mr. Hack
    A German made machine, instead of an American made one? Very telling.

    AP - Thorfinnsson wishes to become a 'smertelnyk', eh? :-(
    , @iffen
    I happen to be a degenerate. I drink, do drugs, fornicate, etc. Woke up in another strange woman’s home this morning.

    Well, I was raised in a sophisticated kind of style.
    Yeah, my taste in music and women drove my folks half wild.
    Mom and Dad had a plan for me,
    It was debutantes and celebraties,
    But I like my music hot and like my women wild.

    Yeah, an' I like my women just a little on the trashy side,
    When they wear their clothes too tight and their hair is dyed.
    Too much lipstick an' er too much rouge,
    Gets me excited, leaves me feeling confused.
    An' I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

    Prole version.

    Thor/prole same/same.

    , @anonymous
    According to the Forbes list of 40 riches under 40, about half were Jewish. And in one of the years 39 out of 40 listed got rich from founding a startup. Gentiles are of course outclassed by Jewish businessmen even in the most recent generation.

    America would still be a rich country without Jewish entrepreneurship but it wouldn't be the very rich country it is now without their contribution.
    , @Dissident

    As far as my own consumption of culture goes, I happen to be a degenerate. I drink, do drugs, fornicate, etc. Woke up in another strange woman’s home this morning. Trying to reform. At least I don’t gamble, cheat, steal, or lie.
     
    How many people exhibit that degree of honesty and self-awareness? Would anyone dispute that it has to be respected?
  224. @Thorfinnsson
    Americans are excellent businessmen. We don't need the Jews to succeed in the market. And if you think the Jews add to our cultural landscape you're not paying attention (or are crazy).

    The blacks and the Jews are indeed very different, but they're alike in that both are fundamentally destructive and parasitic.

    Trump is indeed useless on JQ. He's a transitional rather than a transformational figure. But he also happens to be very cool, so I can't help liking the guy.

    As far as my own consumption of culture goes, I happen to be a degenerate. I drink, do drugs, fornicate, etc. Woke up in another strange woman's home this morning. Trying to reform. At least I don't gamble, cheat, steal, or lie.

    No motorcycle, but I am looking at getting one. Not a Harley as they're for boomers in my view. I like this one: https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/models/heritage/rninetracer.html

    Please don’t use an organ donation machine.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Huh? You talking about drinking and driving?

    While drinking and driving is legendary and proof of man's triumph over nature, I don't do it anymore as it's not worth the trouble.

    If I'm not good to drive (definitely the case last evening) I get the police to drive me. Benefits of small town living.
  225. @iffen
    No they didn’t.

    I thought that proportionately there were more Ukrainian collaborators and fewer partisans as compared to Belarus.

    In the kind of WWII books you are likely to read, when they say Ukrainians they mean Galicians. But Galicians are not real Ukrainians. Or else the are the only real Ukrainians, take your pick.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Is it safe to say that Galicians who are not real Ukrainians are definitely not Russian, but if they are possible Ukrainians, whether they could also be Russians is problematic?
  226. @Thorfinnsson
    Americans are excellent businessmen. We don't need the Jews to succeed in the market. And if you think the Jews add to our cultural landscape you're not paying attention (or are crazy).

    The blacks and the Jews are indeed very different, but they're alike in that both are fundamentally destructive and parasitic.

    Trump is indeed useless on JQ. He's a transitional rather than a transformational figure. But he also happens to be very cool, so I can't help liking the guy.

    As far as my own consumption of culture goes, I happen to be a degenerate. I drink, do drugs, fornicate, etc. Woke up in another strange woman's home this morning. Trying to reform. At least I don't gamble, cheat, steal, or lie.

    No motorcycle, but I am looking at getting one. Not a Harley as they're for boomers in my view. I like this one: https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/models/heritage/rninetracer.html

    A German made machine, instead of an American made one? Very telling.

    AP – Thorfinnsson wishes to become a ‘smertelnyk’, eh? :-(

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Exactly why protectionism is needed. People (including me) shouldn't be permitted to make this choice.
  227. @AP

    There is no comparison between the two countries, economically speaking, from a wage earning individual’s perspective.
     
    It depends on the job. Does a top manager at a software company make 4 times more in cost-of-living adjusted income in Russia than he does in Ukraine? Doubtful.

    Also, annual per capita GDP PPP is not the same as wages.

    Here are wages in Europe:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

    Net average monthly salary (adjusted for living costs in PPP):

    Russia: $1,331
    Ukraine: $ 954

    Belarus bets Russia, with $1,422.

    Georgia: $900
    Armenia: $846
    Moldova: $620

    ::::::::::::

    Even when not adjusting for cost of living, Russian wages are about twice those of Ukraine, not over 3 times higher as is Russia's per capita GDP PPP. It's about the same as the difference between wages in Portugal vs. Spain.

    In contrast, Poland's wages are almost 4 times higher than wages in Ukraine when not adjusting for cost of living.

    That is what GDP PPP is used for and not nominal. PPP takes how cheap the good and services are into consideration. So PPP comparison is better then wage comparison.

    Russia has better safety net and more opportunities due to having a higher GDP PPP per capita. Yes Poland can and does compete with Russia in PPP per capita but the competition is not over and we will see where everyone stands in 10 years, 20 years and etc. Also Russia is a much bigger economy than Poland and I would say set up better to compete in this regard. As in Russians can absorb more people without strain then the Poles and EU.

  228. That is what GDP PPP is used for and not nominal. PPP takes how cheap the good and services are into consideration. So PPP comparison is better then wage comparison

    The best way to compare who makes how much where is by comparing wages and adjusting them for cost of living, not simply using GDP PPP (which is an okay indicator, but not the same as wages).

    When you adjust for cost of living, the average monthly wage in Russia is $1,331, in Ukraine is $954, and in Poland is $1,948. This is why currently many more Ukrainians go to work in Poland than go to work in Russia.

    However in the case of migrant workers adjusting for cost of living might not be as relevant. Migrant workers save all their money so they can spend it back home, where it goes much further. They don’t bother spending much money in restaurants, on rent (they live many in a cheap apartment), on hotels, etc. that get factored into cost of living measures.

    So when you compare pure monthly wages, in Russia they are 454 Euros, in Ukraine 221 Euros and in Poland 793 Euros.

    If your goal is to save as much money as possible and lose as little as you can on cost of living issues (by limiting exposure to restaurants, rent, etc.), Poland becomes even more attractive. Wages are nearly twice as high in Poland as they are in Russia, and nearly 4 times higher than in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    You moved the goal posts. Original discussion was where it is better to live and not about where to scrub toilets.

    First PPP is a better measure. Why? Because it takes it into account more then what you mentioned. You are naive if you think wage and cost of living is all that matters. Working police, hospitals and roads also matter. Those are calculated in PPP and absent in wage to cost of living comparisons. The cost of the services I mentioned are part of taxes and do not get factored into wages.

    Russia is a state with a lot more government control then other European states. This is to the detriment of Russia but at the same time it also means you have to treat it differently when comparing.

    So as far as where to work. I rather not have migrant workers in US so you can imagine any normal Russian would be glad not to have migrant workers from Ukraine. I don't know where you got your numbers about how many people work in Russia and Poland but last I checked the numbers were in favor of Russia by like 2 or 3 times.

    https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&rlz=1C1RUCY_enUS718US718&ei=aa3AW8P1GKqd_Qa986KYDg&q=number+of+ukranians+working+in+russia&oq=number+of+ukranians+working+in+russia&gs_l=psy-ab.3...9615.10243..10363...0.0..0.308.1051.2-3j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.BzH1hJeythg

    vs

    https://www.france24.com/en/20180108-focus-ukraine-poland-immigration-european-union-work-employment-economy-wages

    Look at that a simple search confirms it.
  229. @AP
    Please don't use an organ donation machine.

    Huh? You talking about drinking and driving?

    While drinking and driving is legendary and proof of man’s triumph over nature, I don’t do it anymore as it’s not worth the trouble.

    If I’m not good to drive (definitely the case last evening) I get the police to drive me. Benefits of small town living.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It's a morbid medical joke: motorcycles are "donorcycles" because they cause fatal, but targeted damage to the body. Organs are in good condition for transplant.
    , @AP
    Motorcycles, aka donorcycles. The world would be a worse place if you became like that.
  230. @Mr. Hack
    A German made machine, instead of an American made one? Very telling.

    AP - Thorfinnsson wishes to become a 'smertelnyk', eh? :-(

    Exactly why protectionism is needed. People (including me) shouldn’t be permitted to make this choice.

  231. OT but I would add Russian domesticated foxes to dogs as an animal that people should’t mistreat, eat or kill for no good reason:

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-prince-evolution/201810/domesticated-foxes-laugh-you-and-without-you

    Videos of these guys are nice. Russia should export them.

  232. @Thorfinnsson
    Huh? You talking about drinking and driving?

    While drinking and driving is legendary and proof of man's triumph over nature, I don't do it anymore as it's not worth the trouble.

    If I'm not good to drive (definitely the case last evening) I get the police to drive me. Benefits of small town living.

    It’s a morbid medical joke: motorcycles are “donorcycles” because they cause fatal, but targeted damage to the body. Organs are in good condition for transplant.

  233. @Thorfinnsson
    Huh? You talking about drinking and driving?

    While drinking and driving is legendary and proof of man's triumph over nature, I don't do it anymore as it's not worth the trouble.

    If I'm not good to drive (definitely the case last evening) I get the police to drive me. Benefits of small town living.

    Motorcycles, aka donorcycles. The world would be a worse place if you became like that.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Get this, you will be ready to be Immortan Joe:

    https://youtu.be/P5FjZUwe000
  234. @Mr. XYZ
    If Ukrainians in Russia are going to quickly assimilate and become Russians, what exactly makes you think that the Ukrainians who stay behind in Ukraine are going to listen to these Russian-Ukrainians?

    For instance, if Poland's cognitive elite moved en masse to the West and embraced open borders (for everyone--including Muslims and Africans), do you think that the Poles who stay behind in Poland are actually going to go along with this?

    Same with Ukrainians in Russia. Sure, they could become Russians and become passionately pro-Russia (or pro-Eurasia), but what incentive is there going to be for the Ukrainians in Ukraine to listen to them? If anything, I suspect that these Russian-Ukrainians will simply be viewed as a permanently lost part of the Ukrainian nation whose opinions should not carry any special weight.

    The plan is not to make them listen. The plan is to strip mine them of talent. Now in weakened form whether they listen or not is not that important. But I hope for their own good they do listen when they are so weakened.

  235. @AP
    Motorcycles, aka donorcycles. The world would be a worse place if you became like that.

    Get this, you will be ready to be Immortan Joe:

  236. @Mr. XYZ
    Yes, because Poland rejected a place in the Nazi-led European order while Romania and Hungary accepted. Ironically, a higher percentage of Romania's and Hungary's Jewish population survived the Holocaust than Poland's Jewish population did.

    It was probably in Poland's best interests for France not to fall in 1940 and for the Nazis to get overthrown in a military coup afterwards. In such a scenario, peace could have been made in 1940 or 1941--though the new German leadership might have insisted on plebiscites in Danzig and the Polish Corridor (with only those people who were living there in 1918 actually being able to vote in these plebiscites) and threatened to continue the war if its demands were not agreed to.

    …because Poland rejected a place in the Nazi-led European order while Romania and Hungary accepted.

    Nazi Germany never offered Poland a ‘place‘. German policy at that time was straightforward: remove gradually all population in the areas that would become Germany. That included Poland, Czech R., most of Ukraine – it was the ‘lebensraum‘. Poles were slated to disappear, and disappear they would if Russians had not defeated Germans and saved Poland from annihilation. I don’t think British, Americans or Canadians would shed blood to save Poland – and they didn’t. (Lebensraum wasn’t a mythical dream-land of Western imagination, it was a well-defined, specific region east of Germany).

    The fact that Germans considered Slavic ethnic groups ‘untermenschen‘ also meant that they were unwilling to ally themselves with Poles, Serbs or Czechs. (Croats, Ukrainians and Slovaks had a temporary role as placeholders and quasi-allies, to be dealt with later.)

    Hungarians and Romanians were perfect allies for Germany: non-Slavic, in places that Germans didn’t plan to settle, so they were accepted. Poles never had that choice.

    • Agree: Bliss
  237. @Thorfinnsson

    It’s time to become winners again through SWPL supremacism, CRISPR-transhumanism, and neoliberal domestic economics.
     
    Orthodox neoliberalism is objectively wrong. Some of its points (basically small-l libertarianism) are reasonable, but it's very wrong on money and trade. In Russia's context it's also wrong on labor. That doesn't mean one should listen to leftist cranks like Michael Hudson of course (in the Russian context I believe this man is Glaziev).

    Money

    Neoliberalism does not understand the nature of money. Exhibit A: the endless chicken little panic over sovereign debt. A country which is a sovereign currency issuer cannot default unless for some reason the government wants to. Japan's government debt exceeds 200% of gross domestic product, and the United Kingdom has twice caused that level before.

    Now that doesn't mean it's a free lunch (which MMT people genuinely believe). If the economy is at full capacity, then budget deficits are likely to increase inflation and interest rates. A very high debt burden means a large portion of the state budget will be allocated to debt service, which is undesirable.

    But the point is there's nothing inherently dangerous about government debt or deficits. It's simply a financial question. If the economy isn't overheating, running small budget deficits is fine and even desirable. My only caveat is that budget deficits, outside of economic crises or war, should be constitutionally mandated to only be allocated to capital spending. That will make government borrowing more like business borrowing--the state (or rather the national economy) will then get a positive rate of return on its borrowing.

    Government debt also has benefits. As the most creditworthy borrower in the country, government bonds are ideal instruments for savings where volatility is not acceptable (say you want to buy a house in three years for instance, or your business needs a margin of safety). Banks must acquire reserves as capital for their assets (loans), and government bonds are exceptional instruments for this. Insurers need bonds almost by definition.

    With government debt at only 10.1% of GDP, I would argue that Russia's government debt is in fact too low. And with unemployment at 5.1% (not bad in international context but not full employment), loads of layabouts drawing pensions, tons of overstaffed SOEs, and inflation at 2.5% the economy is not overheating.

    So Russia should in fact increase its government borrowing for needed infrastructure. Obvious priority at this point is more infrastructure for agricultural exports (already planned, but should be increased and accelerated) where Russia now has a comparative advantage. I also don't see any reason why Russia couldn't displace imported LNG in South Korea and Japan, as they're close enough to build pipelines.

    Trade

    Comparative advantage applies only to fixed factors of production. Land for instance. Thus Russia has a comparative advantage in wheat owing to its land (though some other factors are involved).

    Where factors of production are not endowed by nature, it is only true in the short-term. In the long term you can create whatever factors of production are required. This is very much worth doing, as unless a country is very small it cannot converge with the technological frontier without developing the factors of production required for modern, competitive industries.

    But owing to the long time horizon and the uncertainty of profit, investors wisely avoid such gambles. Fortunately the state can afford those gambles--or it can change the incentives to make them attractive. It can even force businesses to do these things.

    Take the example of South Korea. In 1953, right after the end of the Korean War, it was a completely destroyed country with a per capita GDP about half the level of Ghana (seriously). Today South Korea is exporting nuclear reactors, complex system-on-a-chip semiconductors, and the world's largest merchant ships. Its per capita GDP has converged with Western Europe.

    South Korea did all three of this things.

    In 1968, the South Korean government formed the Pohang Iron and Steel Company with the intent to build itself a modern steel industry. The World Bank rejected South Korea's request for financing. Today POSCO is one of the world's largest and most technologically advanced steelmakers. It employs 30,000 people and has annual sales of $60 billion. United States Steel, the first billion dollar corporation in history and formed by the legends Carnegie and Morgan, lobbies the US government for trade protection from POSCO.

    In 1970s, the South Korean government launched the Heavy-Chemical Industry Drive to give itself the heavy industrial infrastructure needed to become a modern country. A complex system of incentives including subsidies, tax breaks, loans, etc. was implemented by the state. By 1980 the program had succeeded--South Korea had functional steel, chemical, electric power, truck, etc. industries.

    Also in 1980 South Korea ordered Samsung to enter the semiconductor business, which Samsung was opposed to. Too bad, the state rules. Today Samsung is the world's largest semiconductor manufacturer, having surpassed Intel.

    If you want to see what happens to a national economy with high human capital that does NOT force itself to reach the technological frontier, isn't the obvious example in Eastern Europe? Russia's main exports are those given to Russia by God. Its only successful manufacturing industries are which the Soviets most obsessively focused on. Meanwhile EU Eastern Europe is an economy colony of Germany. I can't name a single Eastern European product or brand (outside of Russian ones). Total failure.

    Labor

    Neoliberal economists treat labor simply as a factor of production. Lower costs must be good, right? Not so fast.

    Low labor costs are only relevant for low value products. You must be extremely poor to compete in these markets. For high-value products it's irrelevant.

    Laborers are also consumers, so their purchasing power supports domestic economic demand. And get this--because businesses don't like losing money, expensive labor causes them to invest in capital equipment, enterprise software, training, and other such things which reduce the need for labor.

    What does that lead to? Increased labor productivity. Bam--moving towards the technological frontier!

    Now the country will see its domestic industries for low value products (e.g. textiles) disappear, which puts pressure on wages and employment and harms the nation's hinterlands. But one can protect these industries with tariffs or non-tariff trade barriers.

    The downside of such a policy is that it would exacerbate Russia's already too large trade surplus, but Russia could simply choose to export less oil and wheat then. This would also harm foreigners which is good by definition.

    tldr

    round up all neoliberal economists and conduct an atomic bomb test on them

    “…. because businesses don’t like losing money, expensive labor causes them to invest in capital equipment, enterprise software, training, and other such things which reduce the need for labor.”

    and

    “Bam–moving towards the technological frontier!

    Technological frontier, no less!!

    You’d surprised to learn to what extent human core technologies still belong to the 19th century.

    Last time I checked a technology to replace say, seamstresses and other garment factory workers with Star Trek style synthesizers and replicators, did not exist yet.

    So, here on Earth, businesses that don’t like losing money simply move manufacturing and services to cheap labor countries like China, Vietnam, Cambodia and others.

    The rest is just a fairy tale because, you see, if the technology is not there, it takes magic or special effects to do it .

  238. @DreadIlk
    I like Karlin's idea have not thought of it my self.

    So I will try and defend it here.

    1. You don't need them in Russia. They are the ones you want to hurt with Karlin's proposal by denying them leverage over pro Russian Ukranians.

    2. Real High IQ is extremely valuable and rare. Precisely targeting them would be a coup of it own. Administering IQ tests as part of the program for example.

    3. No they won't but then they would have to stoop to Russian level to compete. So Ukraine will get brain drained even faster. Plus the west already has svidomi high IQ on their side as you said emotions matter. Russia would not concern it self with those.

    4. It's all a long game. Everyone has nukes no more domination victory only cultural and scientific is possible now.

    I don’t disagree with AK, I was only pointing out the potential obstacles.

    The game is also not that long. West has been losing its footing and they have to escalate in the next few years. This is the introductory phase.

    High IQ is extremely valuable and rare

    True, but it is also linked with behaviours that are, using a polite term, not ‘state-affirming‘. High IQ people tend toward relativism, ethnic ambiguity, even a touch of absurdism. You can observe it in the fact that high IQ geographic concentrations (capitols and university cities) are also the most wobbly when it comes to pro-one’s-nation policies. That holds true almost everywhere, from London to NY, from Moscow to Budapest. Importing them in large numbers is a devil’s bargain. On top of it, most high IQ individuals are high maintenance and may cost more than they produce.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @iffen
    Agree x 10
  239. @Dmitry

    Why opt for a 30% raise in Russia when you can get an 500% to 1,000% raise somewhere in the West?

     

    For jobs in Western countries, you need to apply and win a job first (for visa requirements, often in designated skill areas), including travelling there for an interview - and then afterwards you can apply for a visa. You also usually need formally recognized English exams. And then you still have to go through a lot of process to renew the visa at least one time, before (after years of working), applying for residency.

    If there is some kind of special program offered in mass to researchers in Ukraine, including all kinds of benefits and streamlining of paperwork (something like instant citizenship and tax-free would be cool) - Karlin's proposal would be successful for attracting a lot of people.

    It would need a very large budget (to create new jobs for all these people) and someone intelligently to design program.

    This is not true. In my 27 years in the US Universities the only agency that ever wanted to see my diplomas was INS (now US CIS) when my visa was switched from J1 to H1-B. Even they did not want any evidence for English proficiency.

    The problem with Ukrainians moving to the US or EU is that only really good competitive people can do that. There are few of those in Ukraine today: everybody who is anybody (and a lot of nobodies, as well) has already left.

    Karlin’s proposal has another drawback. Population strengthens countries only when that population is of good quality. The people who bought into cargo-cult of European integration, those who meekly accept their declining living standards and withering political freedoms under current criminal regime in Kiev can only weaken a country that accepts them. Maybe 10% of the remaining Ukrainian residents (i.e., 2-3 million people max) are good enough to strengthen Russia, and Russia currently is attracting many of these people, such as qualified workers and engineers running from rotting Ukrainian industry, etc. Russia certainly should not attempt to bring in so-called Ukrainian elites: there are enough shameless thieves in Russia as it is.

  240. @AP
    OTOH there was Vlasov and all his Russian troops allied with the Germans.

    Galicians clearly behaved differently towards Germans than did Russians or central and Eastern Ukrainians, but this had to do with Germans treating Galicians differently. At the very beginning, central and eastern Ukrainian soldiers, and Russians ones too, were surrendering and their villagers were optimistic about the Germans ridding them of the Soviet nightmare. But when it became clear that the Germans would treat the locals even worse than would the Soviets, central and eastern Ukrainians, and Russians, resisted them.

    Overall Vlasov’s forces didn’t engage in the level of violence against civilians as the OUN/UPA. Vlasov’s forces also contributed to the liberation of Prague from the Nazis.

  241. @AP

    Ukraine – well they will try to claim Gogol
     
    If you knew anything about Gogol you would know that he was an ethnic Ukrainian who moved to Russia and became a Russian patriot. But he was still an ethnic Ukrainian, born in Ukraine to Ukrainian and half-Ukrainian half-Polish parents, wrote Ukrainian plays as a kid, mixed with the Ukrainian diaspora in St. Petersburg as an adult, used Ukrainian themes in his early writings. Many of his Russian contemporaries viewed him as a foreigner.

    Gogol was sort of like the Polish writer Joseph Conrad who moved to England and wrote in English, except Conrad never used Polish themes in his writings while Gogol used Ukrainian subjects.

    Kazimir Malevich was a Ukrainian-speaking assimilated Pole from Ukraine, not a Russian.

    People who complain that Ukrainians try to steal Rus, steal Gogol and Malevich.

    A Ukrainian composer, Mykola Leontovych, wrote the famous Christmas song Carol of the Bells, based on a Ukrainian folk song. Leontovych was a Ukrainian nationalist and was murdered by Cheka in 1921.

    In the Russian Empire era, many Russians viewed Gogol as being from a closely related region to (for lack of a better term) Russia proper. Lermontov expressed pride in the part of the Russian Empire that he was from.

  242. @AP
    So Ukrainians, Czechs and Serbs should all abandon their languages and speak Russian. Good luck with that.

    As Gogol became older (and mentally ill lol) he became a Russian nationalist. But when he was younger he was more ambivalent.

    Gogol, “Vzgliad na sostavlenie Malorossii”:

    http://feb-web.ru/feb/gogol/texts/ps0/ps8/ps8-040-.ht

    Skip down to section six.

    " And southern Russia, under the powerful auspices of the Lithuanian princes, completely separated from the north. Any connection between them was ripped apart; there came to be two states, by the same name – Rus. One under the Tatar yoke, the other under one scepter with the Lithuanians. But there was no intercourse between them. Other laws, other customs, another goals, other communications, and other feats created… two completely different natures.”

    Gogol about Mazepa's conflict with Peter:

    http://feb-web.ru/feb/gogol/texts/ps0/ps9/ps9-083-.htm

    “This power, this gigantic might, plunged the independent state [samobytnoe gosudarstvo] remaining merely under the protection of Russia, into despondency. The people that belonged to Peter as private property, demeaned by slavery and despotism, submitted, though with grumbling. It was not only necessity but need, as we shall see later, that led them to submit. Their extraordinary ruler strove to elevate them, but his medicine was too strong. But what could be expected of a people so different from the Russians, who breathed freedom and robust Cossackdom and wished to live their own way of life? They were threatened by a loss of nationality [Gogol’s word: natsionalnost] and by having their rights made to a greater or lesser extent equal with the people who were personally owned by the Russian autocrat.”

    Typical Ukrainian nationalist tropes - Russians are slaves to a despot, Ukrainians are a free people.

    Soviet like psychiatry:

    As Gogol became older (and mentally ill lol) he became a Russian nationalist.

    In other words, he became wiser with age.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @AP
    Burning his works, self-starvation (which may have led to his death), and episodes of catatonia is decompensation, not attaining wisdom.
  243. @AP
    Russians, according to Gogol: The people that belonged to Peter as private property, demeaned by slavery and despotism, submitted, though with grumbling

    Little Russians/Ukrainians, according to Gogol: breathed freedom and robust Cossackdom and wished to live their own way of life

    That’s another distortion on your part. As AC notes, numerous Russians opposed to svido views, have a negative view of Peter. Know some of them in the ROCOR, with others in that group taking different views, ranging from nuanced to diametrically opposed.

    • Replies: @AP
    I just directly quoted Gogol. If you have a problem, take it up with him.
  244. @anonymous coward
    The real world is not so simple. For example, the only place in the Russian Far East with a growing population and a healthy economy is Yakutia, and it's a landlocked republic that is literally colder than the North Pole. The shittiest kind of land by any metric, and yet here we are.

    Compare with the Ukraine -- a place with wonderful geography and resources, and a failed state dump that rivals Somalia for retardedness.

    Yakutia is neither landlocked nor particularly shitty.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Yakutia is neither landlocked nor particularly shitty.Yakutia is neither landlocked nor particularly shitty.
     
    It's landlocked for 9 months out of 12 of the year. For the remaining 3 months, there are no road or railroads links to the mainland at all. As far as natural resources go, there's very little oil. The only thing special about the place are the diamond mines, but you can't really build an economy on mining diamonds. (See Africa.)

    As far as 'shittiness' goes -- it's hard to pick a more remote and inhospitable place on the globe.
  245. @inertial
    In the kind of WWII books you are likely to read, when they say Ukrainians they mean Galicians. But Galicians are not real Ukrainians. Or else the are the only real Ukrainians, take your pick.

    Is it safe to say that Galicians who are not real Ukrainians are definitely not Russian, but if they are possible Ukrainians, whether they could also be Russians is problematic?

  246. @Beckow
    I don't disagree with AK, I was only pointing out the potential obstacles.

    The game is also not that long. West has been losing its footing and they have to escalate in the next few years. This is the introductory phase.

    High IQ is extremely valuable and rare

     

    True, but it is also linked with behaviours that are, using a polite term, not 'state-affirming'. High IQ people tend toward relativism, ethnic ambiguity, even a touch of absurdism. You can observe it in the fact that high IQ geographic concentrations (capitols and university cities) are also the most wobbly when it comes to pro-one's-nation policies. That holds true almost everywhere, from London to NY, from Moscow to Budapest. Importing them in large numbers is a devil's bargain. On top of it, most high IQ individuals are high maintenance and may cost more than they produce.

    Agree x 10

  247. @Thorfinnsson
    Americans are excellent businessmen. We don't need the Jews to succeed in the market. And if you think the Jews add to our cultural landscape you're not paying attention (or are crazy).

    The blacks and the Jews are indeed very different, but they're alike in that both are fundamentally destructive and parasitic.

    Trump is indeed useless on JQ. He's a transitional rather than a transformational figure. But he also happens to be very cool, so I can't help liking the guy.

    As far as my own consumption of culture goes, I happen to be a degenerate. I drink, do drugs, fornicate, etc. Woke up in another strange woman's home this morning. Trying to reform. At least I don't gamble, cheat, steal, or lie.

    No motorcycle, but I am looking at getting one. Not a Harley as they're for boomers in my view. I like this one: https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/models/heritage/rninetracer.html

    I happen to be a degenerate. I drink, do drugs, fornicate, etc. Woke up in another strange woman’s home this morning.

    Well, I was raised in a sophisticated kind of style.
    Yeah, my taste in music and women drove my folks half wild.
    Mom and Dad had a plan for me,
    It was debutantes and celebraties,
    But I like my music hot and like my women wild.

    Yeah, an’ I like my women just a little on the trashy side,
    When they wear their clothes too tight and their hair is dyed.
    Too much lipstick an’ er too much rouge,
    Gets me excited, leaves me feeling confused.
    An’ I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

    Prole version.

    Thor/prole same/same.

  248. @Polish Perspective
    Germany has unambiguously contributed far more to world civilisation than most countries in this world. I would rank them highest in continental Europe. Only Anglos have had greater world impact - as evidenced by the fact that practically all Anglo offshoots are extremely impressive countries and English continues to be the lingua franca of science, business and most international debates. Hence why I write this in English.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German and he was the driving force. Nazism is a better slur against them. It was basically Germanic supremacism, though I ultimately view it in the same vein as I view 'manifest destiny' in the US. Every expanding state needs its moralising ideology, if for no other reason than propaganda for audiences at home and abroad.

    I also happen to be most fond of Germanic philiosophy. The French are clowns. Anglos are impressive but they are too liberal. Germans have a darker, more pessimistic outlook which I tend to like. They also have an outsized proportion of the best conservative minds historically speaking.

    As for them not spreading their language, that's because they were boxed in. If you were at the Western edge of Europe (Iberia, France, UK) you had the oceans to think about and that naturally led to colonial settlements. If you were Germany with people from all sides hemming you in, you naturally focused more on land warfare and not getting done in. Foreign adventures in far-away lands was the last thing on your mind.

    Did they fail in the wars? Yes. Still impressive people.

    Blaming them for Marxism is pretty stupid. Marx was not exactly an ethnic German and he was the driving force.

    Marx furthermore wrote his little thing while in London.

  249. @Anonymous

    4. Over time, there will be a reflux effect as these elite Ukrainians form a moneyed, high IQ pro-Russian constituency.
     
    You mean the way that Indian, Kenyan and Singaporean elites educated at British universities realized that they wanted to be part of the British Empire?

    Steve Sailer said something characteristically insightful about this in the context of former president Obama's father, I believe. American elites think, plausibly enough, that allowing third worlders to study at American universities and work in America will lead them to love and want to emulate America when they return home. But actually, their sojourns in the US often cause them to further resent America for its global dominance and arrogance.

    allowing third worlders to study at American universities and work in America will lead them to love and want to emulate America when they return home.

    Obvious problem: They certainly don’t want to go back.

  250. @Mikhail
    That's another distortion on your part. As AC notes, numerous Russians opposed to svido views, have a negative view of Peter. Know some of them in the ROCOR, with others in that group taking different views, ranging from nuanced to diametrically opposed.

    I just directly quoted Gogol. If you have a problem, take it up with him.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    You "directly quoted Gogol ", with some mis-informative spin, which I astutely refuted.
  251. Sort of OT, but it according to NY Times the Bavarians are embracing their own vyshyvanky:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/10/world/europe/germany-bavaria-dirndl-lederhosen.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

    Bavarian Millennials Embrace Tradition — Dirndls, Lederhosen and All

  252. @Mikhail
    Soviet like psychiatry:

    As Gogol became older (and mentally ill lol) he became a Russian nationalist.
     
    In other words, he became wiser with age.

    Burning his works, self-starvation (which may have led to his death), and episodes of catatonia is decompensation, not attaining wisdom.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    That aspect pertains to his very end, as opposed to prior to that, when he came back from the West with a greater appreciation of Russia.

    His somewhat changed views (somewhat in that he never opposed Russia) seem more sincere than (as an example) Filaret's flip flop.

  253. @Si1ver1ock
    I was thinking that they should import the old Swiss Banking Laws to Crimea and make it the new Switzerland. Seems even more feasible, now that Switzerland no longer has private banking numbered accounts.

    But it looks like they have a reasonable development plan for Crimea (link below). Maybe they could add a nice world class aquarium like Sea World.

    How about some nuclear powered cruise ships? Maybe a submersible cruise ship?

    Public / private investment partnerships. Government does the infrastructure and leaves room for Marriott and Starbucks to fill the gaps.

    Looks like a nice hotel.

    https://www.rt.com/business/412826-crimean-hotel-best-travel-award/

    I was thinking that they should import the old Swiss Banking Laws to Crimea and make it the new Switzerland. Seems even more feasible, now that Switzerland no longer has private banking numbered accounts.

    Not a bad idea, since Russia wouldn’t knuckle under to US pressure like most tax havens, but there would have to be substantial confidence building first.

    Don’t forget to introduce that alternative to SWIFT while you’re at it.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    These are all examples of how much mischief Russia could cause to the West if it remains independent. It is too big, too resources rich, too advanced, and too 'white' - its very existence undermines the Atlantic Council domination of the world.

    In the 90's the Western attack on Russia started as not much more than massive resource pillage. But there was always a behind-the-scene group that wanted to destroy Russia, once and for all, as a potential adversary (or as revenge for WWII and Cold War).

    Once Russia started to resist, and the easy goodies were taken away, West has tried a total economic and mental attack (mostly stupid statements in the media). So far it has produced almost no results.

    This is an inherently unstable situation, and not just in Ukraine. E.g. there is no conceivable way for the sanctions to be removed, there is no way to remove the troops from Russia's border (or Russian allies in Donbas), and the 'defensive' missiles are staying in Poland and Romania. In a few years any random event can trigger massive escalation. One has to wonder what the West is planning for its next economic downturn, or next time they lose an election to a 'populist', or when one of their vassals on Russia's border goes full Saakasvilli and tries a shooting war. If Russia abandons all IP protections, or starts its own version of Swiss banking, the screams in the West could be ear-shattering. This is not good.

    , @Pericles

    Don’t forget to introduce that alternative to SWIFT while you’re at it.

     

    I suppose there won't be many readers of this, but nevertheless I have persevered ... It seems this effort is proceeding apace, named System for Transfer of Financial Messages or STFM (so close ... it should have been System for Transfer of Financial Updates).

    And now, eight months after a senior Russian official advised that "our banks are ready to turn off SWIFT," it appears the system has reached another milestone in its development: It's ready to take on international partners in the quest to de-dollarize and end the US's leverage over the international financial system.

     

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-19/foreign-banks-are-embracing-russias-alternative-swift-moscow-says

    Competition is good.
  254. @Pericles

    I was thinking that they should import the old Swiss Banking Laws to Crimea and make it the new Switzerland. Seems even more feasible, now that Switzerland no longer has private banking numbered accounts.

     

    Not a bad idea, since Russia wouldn't knuckle under to US pressure like most tax havens, but there would have to be substantial confidence building first.

    Don't forget to introduce that alternative to SWIFT while you're at it.

    These are all examples of how much mischief Russia could cause to the West if it remains independent. It is too big, too resources rich, too advanced, and too ‘white‘ – its very existence undermines the Atlantic Council domination of the world.

    In the 90′s the Western attack on Russia started as not much more than massive resource pillage. But there was always a behind-the-scene group that wanted to destroy Russia, once and for all, as a potential adversary (or as revenge for WWII and Cold War).

    Once Russia started to resist, and the easy goodies were taken away, West has tried a total economic and mental attack (mostly stupid statements in the media). So far it has produced almost no results.

    This is an inherently unstable situation, and not just in Ukraine. E.g. there is no conceivable way for the sanctions to be removed, there is no way to remove the troops from Russia’s border (or Russian allies in Donbas), and the ‘defensive‘ missiles are staying in Poland and Romania. In a few years any random event can trigger massive escalation. One has to wonder what the West is planning for its next economic downturn, or next time they lose an election to a ‘populist’, or when one of their vassals on Russia’s border goes full Saakasvilli and tries a shooting war. If Russia abandons all IP protections, or starts its own version of Swiss banking, the screams in the West could be ear-shattering. This is not good.

  255. Here’s some of AquariusAnon’s thoughts if Russia wants to become a “cooler” country on the global stage. Especially as a lot of svidomists are toning down, this will be very important to turn them actually into being pro-Russia.

    Russian should become a Svidomist state itself. So I’ll discuss the main tenants Russian svidomy:

    All statues of Lenin to be toppled.

    All Communist vestiges and names to be removed/renamed. The ONLY remnants of Communism should be kitschy tourist traps located on the outskirts of Moscow away from the population reserved for Chinese tourists

    For the kitschy tourist traps, don’t even put any Russian signage. It should be largely in Chinese, with just enough English so that the likes of Godfree Roberts and Nicolas Maduro can navigate them. The only Commie themed anything Russians be allowed to visit is the Museum of Russian genocide.

    Mourn the Holodomor as a 1932-1933 Russian Genocide, perhaps even rename it to something along the lines of that formally. Likewise, call the Gulags, Concentration Camps, and have something along the lines of Auschwitz that all foreigners should go see.

    October 8 should be a national day of mourning. All non-essential functions of Russian society should shut down, which includes work, school, all restaurants and stores, the Russian airspace, ports, everything, for an entire day. The ONLY functions that should remain on that day are essential services and travels catering strictly to emergencies.

    Just like Kiev has been painting fences, buildings murals, and everything in the Hohol flag, Moscow should do the same with the tricolors. The Russian flag should be flown from every single lamp post in Moscow. The Imperial Eagle should replace the Kremlin Stars and should app