The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewAndrew Anglin Archive
XI Puts on Mao Suit and Flies Many Jets in Honor of 100 Years of 中国共产党
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

It must be nice to live in a country where your leaders encourage you to be proud of your race and history.

RT:

China’s Mighty Dragon J-20 stealth fighter jets flew over Beijing’s historic landmark in their largest display yet – a show of might to commemorate the founding of the Communist Party 100 years ago.

Beijing showcased the power of its air force during centenary celebrations for the Communist Party of China (CPC) on Thursday. The 15-strong fighter jet fleet flew in three V-shaped formations, with five planes forming each arrow.

In an interview with the Sina news outlet, J-20 pilot Cao Cheng detailed the symbolism of the demonstration and explained how the fleet flew in uniform precision: “Each wedge team has five fighter jets organized into three squadrons … which symbolizes that the People’s Air Force is invincible and has invincible courage.”

He added that all the members of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force had practised tirelessly to pull off the feat.

The number of fighter jets that took part in the air show is unprecedented, the largest number having previously been five. Those aircraft had been taking part in the National Day military parade in 2019, which was also held in the Chinese capital.

And what a fleet!

The helicopters flying in the shape of “100” is also impressive.

Very lovely.

Much happiness for tender family affairs.

I think this issue of “Chinese communism” should be addressed at length, again. I’m not going to do that right now, because I’m exhausted.

But I will say: China is not a communist country, and the so-called “Chinese Communist Party” is not a communist party.

Mao Zedong tried to do communism.

Then he backed up on it. Then he died in 1976, and China became a beast of productivity.

China is the most futuristic country on earth. While American smart meters are turning off the air-conditioning in 100 degree weather in Texas and New York is sending notices to turn off the microwave so the power doesn’t go out, everyone in China is rich and living in luxury.

Elon Musk recently said it. I check his Twitter account obsessively and the memes are horrible (literally the worst I’ve ever seen), but he’s right about this.

You have to go to China to really understand that this is an ultra-futuristic society of tremendous wealth and prosperity, as well as national pride and sense of national identity.

Obviously, China could not have undergone the massive project of modernization that they’ve undergone since the death of Mao if it was a communist system. Communism, as we are aware, leads to mass starvation and general doom.

The Chinese system is called “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics.” The number one “Chinese characteristic” is “mercantilism,” which is basically the opposite of communism.

I doubt that even one in twenty Chinese people could explain to you any of the basic concepts of Marxist-Leninist theory. And they are well educated. The Chinese education system purposefully doesn’t teach about it, because everyone has a grandparent that has a horror story about the 1960s and the attempts at collectivization. This is not considered by the nation to be a definitive aspect of their society, but rather a weird experiment that went sideways.

As of right now, Xi Jinping is effectively the Emperor. There is really no difference between his role and the traditional role of the Emperor. He is following the Confucian ideal of “philosopher king,” even.

Every Chinese bookstore has books of his sayings on display, and every week he makes new philosophical statements about how you should love your family and be respectful to women and your co-workers.

The only relationship that China has to “communism” is some of the wholesome and cutesy aesthetics here and there.

Like this picture from the celebration:

(Note the lack of masks!)

But you say “what about the fact that it’s called the communist party????”

Well, actually, if you think it is called that, then you don’t understand the Chinese language.

It’s not really called that.

It is called: “中国共产党.”

Those are characters. Not letters and not really words. The entire structure of the language is totally different.

“中国” means “China” and “共产党” is translated as “communist party” in English. The word is “Gòngchǎndǎng.” That is “gong,” “chǎn” and “dǎng.” A direct translation, as it would be spoken in Chinese, would be “The Party of People Working Together to be Productive.” That is how it sounds in Chinese, and that is how people hear it in Chinese. In the Chinese mind, there is no reference to Marx, collectivization, abolition of property, or anything else that is associated with Marxist communism.

To give an example of how Chinese translations are manipulated – back in the 1950s up through the 1990s, the leader of China was called a “Chairman” in the English media. Then, when the West thought China was going to become a “democracy,” they all of a sudden changed the word to “President.” The word in Chinese, “主席,” remained the same. It means something like “the seat of the lord.”

But by changing the word from “Chairman” to “President” in the translated English media, it gave the impression that there was some massive political shift in China, that they had somehow rearranged their entire governmental system, and were no longer alien to us.

Now that China is an enemy again, I wouldn’t be surprised if they started calling Xi “Chairman” again. Of course, if they did that, people might ask if he’d changed his title, and then people would maybe start to figure out the way this translation issue is manipulated.

You should remember this fact every time you see one of these assholes on TV saying “CHINESE COMMUNISM.” They are purposefully trying to confuse you by dragging up imagery of boogiemen from the 20th century.

I hope that helps.

(Republished from The Daily Stormer by permission of author or representative)
 
Hide 343 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Anon[197] • Disclaimer says:

    The nation that bulldozes its Jew-worshiping Christian churches thrives and prospers. No Chinaman needs to be born again, they were born right the first time. Whites too would do well to stop believing Rabbi Jesus’ blasphemous notion that “Salvation is from the Jews.”

  2. The future is in the East–China, Russia, and Iran. I hope they are able to control the Talmudic parasite. I really believe that there is no resuscitating America or the West at this point. The Pharisees have sucked almost all the blood out.

    • Replies: @BorisMay
  3. The government owns the banks.

    That’s all you need for communism to work.

    It’s very simple and extremely effective.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @tobi999
  4. Sometimes it is neigh impossible to translate certain words or phrases. Something gets lost, but in the west’s case; on purpose.

  5. I encourage people to visit and see for themselves.

    No thank you.

  6. Icy Blast says:

    I’d much rather hear commentary on China from Anglin than from some buffoonish character such as “Godfree Roberts.”

    The Chinese language itself is indeed the key to understanding the actions and behavior of the Chinese. It is hard to over-emphasize its differentness from an alphabetical language.

    It took the Koreans about 500 years to come to grips with the radical linguistic reform introduced by King Sejong.

    Many will stress China’s resistance to Western-style individualism. I think this theme has been worked to death. To begin with, we don’t really understand what American “capitalism” is. It seems to be a secretive, exclusionary financial system controlled by a tiny cabal – a new, refined, bulletproof “nomenklatura” system, headquartered in New York City and Washington D.C.

    • Agree: RedpilledAF
    • Replies: @Realist
  7. Anon[781] • Disclaimer says:

    “It must be nice to live in a country where your leaders encourage you to be proud of your race and history.:..

    And it’s even “nicer” and “greater” if you live in a country next to a country where the leaders encourage theirs people to be proud of their race and history.

    You don’t need to read history book at all. Just look around you right now!

    • Agree: Sarah
    • Replies: @usNthem
    , @littlereddot
  8. Anon[781] • Disclaimer says:

    It seems that the SARS COV2 and its Delta Variant are very respectful to these Chinese commies! Perhaps these deadly “bio” viruses have decided to take a day off to celebrate this centennial event!

    What a civilized and respectful virus it is!

  9. Dennis Dale says: • Website

    This is not considered by the nation to be a definitive aspect of their society, but rather a weird experiment that went sideways.

    If only we could do that.

  10. anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:

    None of the countries that called themselves communist actually achieved it. They were supposedly working towards it when they gave up on it. Nowadays who is left, China, DPRK, anybody else? Nixon traveled to China to shake the hand of Mao who one could call a convinced communist. So, what’s a little ideology or a little warfare a couple decades prior when there’s money and opportunity beckoning? Wasn’t a barrier then, was it? Now that they’ve gotten bigger and competitive on the world stage they’re being demonized along with Russia and Iran. It’s the American lie machine blaring full spectrum propaganda 24/7 that’s deluding the mass of people out there, pounding out easy to digest slogans over and over.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  11. Rahan says:

    Much harmony party of collective production way forward of jade tiger happiness!

    Dastardly Hebrew overlord give permission hatred of Chinese workers to American sad lard person, sad lard person use permission for foul humor vapors, not notice Hebrew overlord eat children’s future and foreskins.

    • LOL: WorkingClass
    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  12. Rahan says:

    Concerning the delightful jets.

    In the late 1980s the Soviets developed the experimental 5th generation MiG-144

    However, by the time it was ready, the Soviets collapsed. Then during the chaotic 1990s the project was frozen, and by the 21st century it was seen as obsolete and cancelled.

    It seems, though, as if someone else saw the potential and used it as a basis for an upgraded kick ass version.

    Cool.

    I believe a number of China’s military elements are based on good ideas in Russia and the West, which did not get the chance to show their potential due to politics, or the economy, of institutional power-games and inefficiency, but which deserved very much to be invested in and developed further.

    I remember reading even the basic cammo design of the modern PLA is based on the concept of an American creator who simply couldn’t get the US army to pay him any attention.

    • Thanks: Antiwar7
    • Replies: @utu
  13. Biff says:
    @obwandiyag

    The government owns the banks.

    How is that different from the banks owning the government?

    • LOL: littlereddot
    • Replies: @animalogic
    , @Curmudgeon
  14. Mao Zedong tried to do communism. China could not have undergone the massive project of modernization that they’ve undergone since the death of Mao if it was a communist system. Communism, as we are aware, leads to mass starvation and general doom.

    In 1949, Mao wrote President Roosevelt, “China must industrialize. This can only be done by free enterprise. Chinese and American interests fit together, economically and politically. America need not fear that we will not be co-operative. We cannot risk any conflict”. He repeated the invitation to Presidents Truman and Eisenhower but they, too ignored his pleas. MAO ASKED TO SEE ROOSEVELT IN 1945 – The New York …www.nytimes.com › 1972/09/21 › archives ›

    Despite US embargoes, Mao managed to
    1) reunify the country,
    2) chase out foreign powers,
    3) provide basic universal health care services and double average life expectancy
    4) lift literacy of the entire population from 28% to 78%
    5) Build most of the basic infrastructure China still depends on
    6) Make technological breakthroughs nuclear bombs, rockets, satellites etc,
    7) Whip the US in Korea and keep it out of North Vietnam
    8) eliminate death by starvation

    According to World Bank data, expressed at constant prices (base 1980) and in ten-year averages, China’s economic growth rate was 6.8 percent between 1970 and 1979, i.e., more than double that of the United States during the same period (3.2 percent, also at 1980 constant prices).4
    According to China’s National Bureau of Statistics (NBS), China’s GDP growth averaged 8.3 percent annually from 1952 – 2015:** 6.3 percent between 1952 – 1978** and 9.9 percent between 1979 – 2015. (These percentages are expressed at constant prices in base 1952 and standardized to take into account the statistical breaks that marked the accounting transition from the Material Product System (MPS) to the more “modern” System of National Accounts (SNA).5)
    If we exclude the very first years of the People’s Republic from 1952 to 1962—i.e., between the completion of the unification of the continental territory and the period of the break with the Soviet Union—there is a recorded average of 8.2 percent per annum GDP growth rate in the period of 1963–78, reflecting very rapid growth even during the Cultural Revolution.

  15. Rahan says:
    @Anon

    The nation that bulldozes its Jew-worshiping Christian churches thrives and prospers. No Chinaman needs to be born again, they were born right the first time. Whites too would do well to stop believing Rabbi Jesus’ blasphemous notion that “Salvation is from the Jews.”

    China is the most born again country in the world. They are officially in third place by number of protestants in the world, but by now probably second place, because things there change super fast.
    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-protestant-christians.html

    Also, in terms of quality as opposed to quantity, the Christian protestants really are 100% zealous recent converts. But in terms of pure numbers too, China is expected to have the most Christians in the world by 2030.
    https://believersportal.com/china-officially-atheist-country-could-have-more-christians-than-u-s-by-2030/

    It’s quite difficult to develop and maintain the habit of always distrusting the mainstream media and politicians, but this is a must for any autonomous individual today. When the West says “China oppresses Christians” this is easy to believe due to our collective memory of the worst moments of totalitarianism in Russia and China especially in the middle of the 20th century.

    But this is the 21st century, twenty odd years in. And today in Russia Christians have more rights than in the West, and in China–especially now in the period of rampant globohomo + viral pneumonia dystopia–also more rights than in the West.

    When globohomo says “pastor of underground church in China arrested by police” they mean to convey through these word choices a vision of huddled believers cowering in catacombs, hunted down and thrown to ferocious pandas on stadiums filled with evil commies. In reality, when this happens in China (and Russia, btw) this means that some guy, frequently a CIA asset, is running an explicitly forbidden cult from his apartment. This is the “pastor” and the “underground church”.

    Christianity is spreading through China at lightning speed, and the authorities are not oppressing Christians, to the contrary, as long as the born again give unto Caesar and otherwise focus on hard work and family values, then everything is perfect.

    I myself, though, would be highly skeptical of allowing evangelical Christianity of spreading through my country, if I am constantly called the “main enemy” by the Anglosphere. Because no doubt evangelical Christianity is indeed to a large extent ran by CIA jews, and this is indeed building up a 5th column among the educated urban middle-classes in China’s most important cities.

    However, Catholicism would also be a trojan horse of the Satanic Pope, without the buffer of traditional pre-satanic Catholicism like they have for example in Poland, now would be the worst time to introduce Catholicism into a “virgin” society.

    Orthodoxy, in theory the best choice, is however impossible, because its center is a huge neighbor called Russia, with whom China shares thousands of miles of border. Too close for comfort. Friendship is friendship but pragmatism is pragmatism.

    Apparently the Chinese govt has decided that it’s less risky to allow the local spiritual seekers to become Evangelicals, because their center is across the Pacific ocean as opposed to across the river Amur. But I don’t know, I don’t know… Keeping in mind what a number “evangelical Christianity” played on the US boomers, turning them into drooling Zionists over the decades that so curiously coincided with the time of general civilizational collapse, we’ve yet to see how China can handle this potential threat.

    It could very well be that “fellow chinese people” are already drifting into key positions all across the evangelical networks that influence China’s new urban generation. A sort of mega-sized repetition of Falun Gong’s takeover-from-the-inside attempt back in the day.

  16. If the Chinese are content and prospering under their God/man emperor I am happy for them. But I don’t want to be a Chinaman. I am a White man and a Texan.

    Communist China is not Communist. Neither are the United States united.

    Democracy translated into Chinese is Corruption. Some in the formerly united States are fearful that “we” are losing “our” Corruption.

    Yes Yes! I know. You can’t lose what you ain’t never had. Yet the woke among us believe that Orange Man is a threat to our Corruption. He is not.

    I prefer neithe Xi nor Xiden. Given the opportunity I would take a chance on freedom.

    • Agree: Drapetomaniac, Z-man
    • Replies: @babu
  17. everyone in China is rich and living in luxury.

    17 percent of Chinese live in poverty. That’s 237 million or the entire U.S. population.

    Chinese tech was either stolen or sold to them by US traitors or our most important ally.

    • Agree: TKK
  18. “As of right now, Xi Jinping is effectively the Emperor.”

    Based on how well things are going, the CCP decided that Xi has “the Mandate of Heaven”, so they decided to let him stay on rather than rotate someone else in. In fact, the CCP could be considered the current dynasty and the heirs to the Qing. Traditionally in China, when there is a dynastic transition is when the shit really hits the fan. Seems to happen about every 300 years or so. The last transitory period took place from the Taiping Rebellion through the Cultural Revolution. It’s been all uphill since then.

  19. @Biff

    Gov’ owns banks = socialism(ish).
    Banks own Gov’ = Oligarchy/plutocracy/kleptocracy/neofeudal-ism.

  20. bj0311 says:

    Look at those pilots–all male and all one race–don’t they know “diversity is strength”?

    • Thanks: Realist, Sarah
    • Replies: @peterike
  21. I recall growing up in the 80’s and 90’s when we were all told in school that all the people living in China and Russia were all secretly aghast at their governmental system and really really wanted to be just like America.

    Doesn’t seem like that was an accurate observation concerning those nations.

    • Agree: Realist
  22. Realist says:

    It must be nice to live in a country where your leaders encourage you to be proud of your race and history.

    Yes, we can only dream. The United States is the third was populous and the first most diverse country on the planet…the latter will be a significant reason for its downfall. The Chinese do not spend one fen on racial problems.

    China is the most futuristic country on earth.

    Their growth and especially their architecture is stunning…their large cities have the appearance of a futuristic landscape.

    Meritocracy is the way to a successful future. Those countries that allow idiots to rule will fall to the wayside.

  23. anonymous[149] • Disclaimer says:

    Anglin’s right. If you want to know exactly what their economic system is, here it is, the black letter law.

    https://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/cescr.aspx

    This is the Chinese government’s commitment to devote all available resources to the people’s rights. They ratified it in 01 and this is what you get from 20 years of it. It’s not based on growth and debt like bullshit US economics. It’s based on making sure you get the means of life. This is how China left the US regime in the dust.

    This is world-standard economic policy. Forget bullshit US banking predation, that’s an atavism for throwbacks in the US hinterlands.

    The twentieth century had two revolutionary movements. There was a half-baked obsolescent flash in the pan, communism. It was fashionable for a while. And there was a real revolutionary movement that took over the world, leaving US kleptocrats behind. The Comintern had what, fifty-odd fringe national parties at its peak. ECOSOC’s international has 171 nations. Contain that. You can’t. You lost. Give up.

    Why the fuck don’t you have this? You don’t have it because we haven’t filled the beltway with a pyramid of human skulls.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  24. Realist says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    No thank you.

    Afraid of the truth? The truth will set you free. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

  25. Realist says:
    @Icy Blast

    To begin with, we don’t really understand what American “capitalism” is. It seems to be a secretive, exclusionary financial system controlled by a tiny cabal – a new, refined, bulletproof “nomenklatura” system, headquartered in New York City and Washington D.C.

    That is exactly what it is. A system to transfer the wealth from those who produce it to those that worship it…the plutocratic oligarchy we live under.

    • Agree: Alfred Muscaria
    • Replies: @Bert
  26. nsa says:

    Xi velly velly gleat velly velly smalt not allow hollible gay plide palade not allow hollible heblew pelvelts lun evelything steal evelything plint plint plint money make dollal into ass wipe so can get velly velly lich. Chinee plosper not have heblew scum long time fuckee evelyone steal evelything.

    • Agree: Mario Partisan
  27. @American Citizen

    “I recall growing up in the 80’s and 90’s when we were all told in school….”

    Russia and China are light years ahead of what they were back then. The USA, however, is regressing.

    Antony Blinken, like his haircut, is still stuck in that 1980’s mindset.

  28. Whatever Jews do, just blame China.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
  29. Rahan says:

    I recall growing up in the 80’s and 90’s when we were all told in school that all the people living in China and Russia were all secretly aghast at their governmental system and really really wanted to be just like America.

    It’s true. Especially the former USSR and Eastern Europe, when they got rid of their communism, it was with the explicit goal of “becoming like the West”. Only this means the Reaganist/Thatcherist west with early 1990s elements.

    This is why today the Western half of the EU and the Eastern half of the EU are talking in different languages. Because the Eastern joined in order to live a normal life of the Reagan/early Clinton variation, while the West is now dismantling it and calling it fascism.

    https://miniszterelnok.hu/europe-must-not-succumb-to-the-soros-network/

    This tension can only grow in the foreseeable future. I mean the Western half of the EU is ltieraly telling the East over the last 3-4 days “either you teach double anal in schools or leave the Union”. It’s come to that. So we’ll see.

    And China also wanted to become like a mix of 1980s and 1990s Japan and America, in terms of strength, affluence, capability, and efficiency.

    Summary: back in the 20th century when Russia, China, and Eastern Europe lived in societies with closed borders, controlled internal movement, no private initiative, no private property, total censorship, street dress-codes, product shortages, universal snitching, street gangs you’re supposed to pretend don’t exist, relentless propaganda, and no painkillers at the dentist, they very very much wanted to “become like America”.

    They did. But they reached their respective interpretations of the American 1980s/90s (as much as possible within an inherited Soviet-style infrastructure and mass psychology), and have proceeded to build their own thing based on that.

    • Agree: Malla
    • Replies: @Fred777
    , @Malla
  30. @animalogic

    “Gov’ owns banks” = the duped public in servitude.

    “Banks own Gov’” = the duped public in servitude.

    • Agree: Biff
    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  31. Dutch Boy says:

    The Chinese offered their masses of cheap labor to Western capitalists and the capitalists were glad to oblige by moving production to China. Wealth follows production. It is a simple formula once followed by the USA: develop domestic production, protect it from cheap foreign competition, and prosper. This worked as long as the US economy was tariff-protected and restricted immigration. Once ideologues abolished that system, the temptation to outsource production to cheap labor venues and import more cheap labor became more than the capitalists could resist. Capitalists are obsessed with competing by cutting costs and that means cutting labor costs. The results are all around us.

    • Agree: Marshal Marlow
    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
  32. Antiwar7 says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Exactly, like how they copied us in landing for the first time ever on the far side of the moon:
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/china-change-4-historic-landing-moon-far-side-explained

    I think you have no idea of what 30 years x pragmatism x good nutrition x good schools x hard work x cooperation x continuity of government x 1.4 billion equals. No idea.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  33. @Rahan

    Christianity??

    “If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be — a Christian.”

    Mark Twain

    • Agree: Robin Hood
  34. @Sick of Orcs

    “That’s 237 million or the entire U.S. population.”

    Um, no.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  35. Thanks Andrew for a brave and great article. Your translation of the title of the highest authority in China is quite an inspiration. I look forward to your analysis of how the beleaguered White race could make good use of the rise of China to bolster White survivalism against the most vicious and devious anti White assault that history has ever witnessed. Out of the top of my head I propose dumping the American defence budget in favour of joining the BRI and jettisoning diversity by learning from the Chinese national pride and how to build a harmonious society.

    • Replies: @JM
  36. Anonymous[319] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rahan

    Protestantism started as a Jewish revolutionary movement tied to theft and usury. Orthodoxy is made up of ethnic national churches.

    Sorry, but Catholicism is your only legit option. Ss. Peter and Paul went to Rome, not Wittenberg, Geneva, London, or Constantinople.

    • Disagree: Sarah
  37. @Godfree Roberts

    Godfree, you seem to have fallen into the same trap as American politicians and Wall Street economists with your insistence on the greatness of GDP growth in China. GDP growth hardly brings happiness in and of itself. Sometimes it brings about the opposite. Witness, complaints from many workers being forced to work a 9-9-6 workweek, without overtime pay. That’s 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week. Not much time left to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Many Chinese millennials and Zoomers are now “laying flat” and rejecting the Rat Race (John Derbyshire’s column).

    Anglin totally floored me with this outlandish and ridiculous sentence: “EVERYONE in China is Rich and living in Luxury.” I doubt if even you would agree with that, Godfree, or would you?

    • Agree: TKK
  38. @Realist

    While the Chinese practice Meritocracy and don’t waste time on unending divisive elections, the floundering DSA (Dis-united States of America) practices Idiocracy, in which even an obviously senile old man is holding the country’s highest elective office. Biden is the perfect metaphor for a country which has lost its grip on reality.

    • Agree: Realist, Bert, Robert Bruce, Sarah
  39. @follyofwar

    GDP growth is an economic indicator–one of many. I make no claims for its greatness or happificity.

    My interest is in how promptly and equitably its gains are distributed, which is where China shines: 98% home ownership, 100% real income increases every 8-10 years, and general containment with the country’s direction.

    I worked at a Cupertino startup when Silicon Valley was young and our media hailed techies who boasted of their 9-9-6 schedules. The fact that Chinese techies are now doing the same is indicative of their growing clout and financial comfort. Ditto the ‘lying flat’ crowd: forerunners of our ‘turn on, tune in, drop out’ kids of yore.

    They say and do it because they can afford it, and they can afford it because the median urban Chinese family has three times the net worth of the median American family. Not living in luxury, by any means, but living comfortably at last.

    • Agree: Si1ver1ock
    • Thanks: follyofwar
  40. @Biff

    “Once a nation parts with the control of its currency and credit, it matters not who makes the nations laws. Usury, once in control, will wreck any nation. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of parliament and of democracy is idle and futile.”
    William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada, on introducing legislation to nationalize the Bank of Canada in 1937.

    “Sovereignty inheres in the right to issue money. And the American sovereignty belongs by right to the people, and their representatives in Congress have the right to issue money and to determine the value thereof. And 120 million, 120 million suckers have lamentably failed to insist on the observation of this quite decided law. … Now the point at which embezzlement of the nation’s funds on the part of her officers becomes treason can probably be decided only by jurists, and not by hand-picked judges who support illegality.” ~ Ezra Pound

    • Agree: JM
    • Thanks: Si1ver1ock
    • Replies: @JM
    , @Montefrío
  41. I think Mr. Anglin might be understating or underestimating the productivity of China. I think we could be looking at a an explosion in wealth never before seen in human history.

    If certain developments go their way, China won’t simply be twice as rich as the United States, but 50 to 100 times wealthier than the US.

    This is a mind boggling amount of wealth, almost unimaginable.

    I’m not sure the Chinese have figured it out yet either.

  42. @Godfree Roberts

    I very much appreciate Andrew doing the largely thankless work to try to convince the American Right that conflict with China is not just useless and counter-productive but built on a foundation of lies like every other conflict the ruling elite have ginned up.

    However, as this article gets into what Chinese “Communism” is and what it is not, I thought I would piggy back on your comment with my “Lefty” hat on.

    What is 3rd world “Communism.” It is not what most people think it is. In general, a precondition for industrialization is a social and institutional structure in which the surplus produced by a nation is invested in the building up of plant and equipment, or improving the skills of its people. The surplus here is defined as output of goods and services over and above the “minimum” required to maintain the working ability of the population. A nation can produce a surplus, but that does not mean that it finds its way towards the building of industry. A CEO purchasing a 5th mega Yacht is spending surplus resources, but productive capacity is not improved.

    Notwithstanding the genuine contributions that a landed aristocracy can make, a feudal ruling class tends to waste surplus resources in various forms of lavish and frivolous consumption. That is why a near universal historical truth seems to be that industrialization follows a bourgeois social revolution in which the landed aristocracy is either liquidated (France) or made politically subordinate to Capital. The leadership of a nation needs to be transferred to an elite who will use the economic surplus in a responsible fashion.

    In the East, due to a variety of historical circumstances, a large and independent bourgeois or capitalist class was largely lacking, and thus the political leadership required to depose the feudal aristocracy could not come from such a class as it has in the West. Instead, peculiar “bourgeois” revolutions occurred – ones characterized by an intelligentsia leading a peasant war. However, once having overthrown the feudal elite, these nations found themselves turning towards the use of the State as a an instrument for allocating the social surplus towards rapid industrialization as a domestic capitalist class was absent. In short, what we call Communist revolutions are really the East’s State Capitalist Revolutions. The historical function of State Capitalism being the building up the productivity of the people by means of proper surplus allocation, towards industry and towards the education of one’s people.

    In the beginning there were many mistakes and problems as Communist ideas were mixed in with the overall transformation and State led initiatives are often plagued by inefficiencies and mismanagement. But the mixed economy path, the Socialist Market economy, that China has adopted should be seen as the natural path of the revolution that Mao initiated. The purpose was never overthrowing a capitalist class, as such a class really didn’t exist. The revolution was anti-feudal and aimed at establishing a social order in which the output and human talent of the nation could be used for national advancement as opposed to conspicuous consumption of a largely parasitic elite.

    Why does our parasitic elite fear China? Maybe because they see themselves in the Qing dynasty. Speaking of feudalism, does anyone recall the wide-spread use of eunuchs and castrati under those systems? No wonder our Neo-feudal elite likes trannyism so much.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Thanks: Joe Levantine
  43. @Rahan

    “But this is the 21st century, twenty odd years in. And today in Russia Christians have more rights than in the West, and in China–especially now in the period of rampant globohomo + viral pneumonia dystopia–also more rights than in the West.”

    Reinforced today by the US Supreme Court:

    https://www.sott.net/article/454981-Supreme-Court-rejects-florists-case-against-participating-in-same-sex-wedding

  44. @Realist

    “Meritocracy is the way to a successful future. Those countries that allow idiots to rule will fall to the wayside.”

    I am out of “Agree” replies, so let me say that I am in 100% agreement with you on this.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Thanks: Realist
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  45. “It must be nice to live in a country where your leaders encourage you to be proud of your race and history.”

    An absolutely killer opening line. And it just got better and better as it went along.

    Another great read here on the Unz…….. 🙂

  46. @Hippopotamusdrome

    And a billion Chinese sigh in relief.

    • Troll: TKK
  47. @Mustapha Mond

    In Australia ‘democracy’ results in regimes comprising entirely of idiots, ignoramuses, sex pests, climate destabilisation denialists, moral cowards, stooges of the US and Israel, vicious Sinophobe racists, sadists and buffoons, with a superior specimen NOWHERE to be seen. It’s quite remarkable. Meritocracy inverted.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @Realist
  48. Xi say much that is good. But he no say how imperialists play part in forcing revolution in China. China no heed advice from West and stick to old way. So, West use force to open China, and that lead to much change and revolution. Imperialism no good in insulting Chinese pride but do much good in forcing China out of old way. Also, even Marxism come from West. Chinese no have vision and big idea to come up with such thing.

  49. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    stooges of the US and Israel

    You too are a stooge in defending globo-homo and ‘gay marriage’, both pushed by Empire of Judea.

  50. @Godfree Roberts

    Yet, day after day, we are regaled by ‘experts’, many on the US payroll, declaring that the CPC has no ‘legitimacy’, ‘fears its people’, who are yearning for ‘democracy’ like that in the US, UK or Austfailia. Without ANY dissenting voices allowed to point out these simple truths. Yet we act with truly ludicrous presumptions of political and cultural superiority. If it weren’t so deadly dangerous, it would be worthy of Swift. Terra Australis Lugubria ought to be there, next to Brobdingnag, Lilliput and Laputa.

  51. @Anon

    The Chinese adopted the quickest eradication approach. That’s the cheapest method (and the most effective method as far as health goes). The NATO countries and nearly all others chose the half-hearted, most expensive and least effective method. Australia fortunately only did half-hearted with one ninetieth of Yank enthusiasm.

    By all means, learn from the Yanks when they win at something. Learn from any winner. At epidemic control, that’s China (1,600 times better than the USA). It’s always a mistake to learn from a loser, even when they loudly lie that they’re a winner, even if they continue lying for years. [email protected]

  52. Polemos says:

    Suppose we accept that the Chinese are superior in terms of infrastructure, military potency, social cohesion, material wealth, and public access to governing officials.

    How long can they keep up their growth and sustain it when the entire planet cannot sustain it? There is not enough energy diversity and reserves for this to continue, not without substantially altering what people accept as a comfortable and meaningful life —or not without ending the lives of the other billions of wasteful consumers who compete for the water, the oil, the rare earth elements, and the biodiversity necessary to keep the plants that feed us all alive.

    Where do they dispose of their non-degrading plastics? Where does their industrial pollution go?

    How do they intend to grow food to feed themselves in the 21 C?

    If they intend to bioengineer both the feedstock and the people to make it last, then they are neither wise nor perceptive. This is what’s destroying genuine harmony throughout the planet among all the species of this planet’s Bios, and the unintended consequences already unleashed from reckless but well-intentioned earlier attempts won’t be controlled, diminished, or avoided for much longer.

    Of course, there’s always that possibility the earth will crack and cease spinning and the oceans will overflow across all the lands as they have before when the next micronova event erupts from the Sun in ten years, and all this national showmanship and bravado will just be our last collective comedic joke as Homo sapiens, long before the rabbits evolve and get their shot at consciousness and fairy-telling and world-building.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Daniel Chieh
  53. @Dutch Boy

    In a sense the destruction of blue collar jobs in the west proves that globalism is great at improving wealth distribution to the billions of people who live in endemic poverty. It’s just that the capitalists don’t ever get around to mentioning whose wealth it is that’s being spread out.

    • Replies: @Malla
  54. kauchai says:

    A little trivia.

    Dear Mr Anglin,

    ” XI Puts on Mao Suit…” – in chinese that suit is known as “中 山 裝” which was popularized by modern china’s founding father Sun Yat-sen. The west also manipulated (in your own words) this as “Mao suit”. The proper translation should be “Zhongshan suit”.

  55. d dan says:
    @Polemos

    ” their growth… other billions of wasteful consumers who compete for the water, the oil, the rare earth… they dispose of their non-degrading plastics… their industrial pollution… How do they intend to grow food… they are neither wise nor perceptive… “

    They, they, they, their, and they, they… blah, blah…

    What about people in the West. They still consume more energy per-capita, produce more trash per person, pollute and destroy more environment historically, and emit more carbon cumulatively. Westerners not only eat more meat, but also prefer beef (higher carbon footprint than pork and poultry). Furthermore, a lot of factories in China are setup by Western companies, managed by Western managers and with products exported to Western markets. So, if you care about the environment, the Earth, the climate, then change your habit first, then your family, then your community, then your country, before pointing finger at others…

    As for China:

    1. China is the country that grow the most forest (afforestation) in the world [1].
    2. China has the most installed solar photovoltaics in the world (more than the next 3 countries combined) [2].
    3. China is the largest producer of wind power in the world (more than the next 9 countries combined) [3].
    4. China is the largest hydropower producer in the world (more than the next 4 countries combined) [4].
    5. China has the longest high speed rail (more energy efficient than plane or car) in the world (more than the rest of the world combined) [5].
    6. China has the largest green investment in the world (more than the next 4 countries combined) [6]
    7. China produces and uses most electric cars in the world.
    8. In addition, the trends will continue and may accelerate for all the above, and the gap between China and others will keep growing.

    and the list goes on…

    Ref:
    [1] https://ourworldindata.org/afforestation
    [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country
    [3] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/wind-power-by-country
    [4] https://blog.bizvibe.com/blog/uncategorized/top-hydropower-producing-countries
    [5] https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-high-speed-rail.html
    [6] https://www.statista.com/statistics/799098/global-clean-energy-investment-by-country/

    • Thanks: antibeast, showmethereal
    • Replies: @Polemos
  56. Malla says:
    @Marshal Marlow

    Very good point.
    If the Western elites would have smart, long term thinking and having a racial preservation agenda, they would be spreading Communism throughout the Third World. Actually the Western elites did fund or support Communist movements in Russia, China, USSR etc… but should have spread closed style Communism throughout the Third World. Nothing keeps nations poor (poverty preservation) as well as brings down the birth rate at the same time as Communism. If China had not opened up during Deng, it would have remained a poor country and the USA would not have been in the dire straits as it is today. Capitalism is flawed because it runs blindly after profits, it does not care much about race, civilization etc…
    If the West would be smart, they would have worked on de-Westernising the Third World. Either pushed Communism or Islamic fundamentalism, Hindutva etc… which would have kept these countries backward. Westernising non-White populations have been the biggest mistake for the White race from a racial point of view. That is why Hitler was against this spreading of Westernism among non-Whites. Similarly had the Jews stayed in their ghettos, they would not have been able to cause all that damage to White societies. They could have been slowly pushed to the Middle East in their ghetto clothes. White Man’s burden became White man’s suicide. Let the Arab go to the camels, the Hindus to the bullock cart, the Jews to the ghetto yeshivas, the Blacks to the bush, the Hispanics go all Aztec….so that Whitey can got o space.
    And the good part is most of the third worlders because of jealousy, ugly taste, arrogance etc…. already hate the West and the White race. They are asking for it. All the West had to do was give the push so that they either remained backward or remained poor with a falling fertility rate.
    Whitey foolishly gave away his technology and “magic” too easily to the non-Whites.

    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  57. anon[925] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s definitely a lot of great things about China: infrastructure, pride in their culture/history, lack of racial shame. Also, if you know Chinese people in real life, you’ll know that they’re generally a pretty pleasant people.

    But there are also some troubling signs (some of which has been on FTN recently):

    1. Financial liberalization, entry of private equity and global asset management. Maybe in the short term it isn’t a big deal, but it could be a big deal down the line since this lets global asset managers put a lot of influence over the composition of the boards of Chinese firms.

    2. Pro-globohomo/LGBT in the media. Obviously nowhere near as bad as in the west, but go on state media like globaltimes or sixthtone.com and you’ll see tons of pro-gay stuff. Sixthtone even runs stuff attacking Chinese citizens in the same style as American media. To be fair this seems to be more common in their English language media, so you can argue it’s aimed at an overseas audience, but still. Even for domestic stuff like Baidu Beike (wikipedia version), it’s very pro-gay. Just check for yourself.

    3. Anti-white content in state media like Globaltimes / China Daily. You can argue it’s just a tool for anti-American stuff, but it’s still a bad sign.

    4. Pro-Jewish media. Obviously as a communist country they’re never going to be great on this issue, but still, it’s a bad sign.

    I don’t want to be too harsh here, because I think this sort of thing is still not nearly as bad as it is in the west, but still, the overall impression is that it could be a growing problem and the government doesn’t seem to consider it to be a high priority.

  58. @Godfree Roberts

    Thus sprach Dogflea Lolbert the greatest political satirist of our era.

  59. @Antiwar7

    I think you have no idea of what 30 years x pragmatism x good nutrition x good schools x hard work x cooperation x continuity of government x 1.4 billion equals. No idea.

    Don’t forget the 40 million murdered Chinese of The Great Stumble Backward.

    What are you Sinophiles still doing here?

    Your Brave New Chinese World awaits.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Antiwar7
  60. @Drapetomaniac

    “When the $5.50 per day poverty line is applied to China, an upper-middle income country, 17 percent of the country’s population (237.2 million people) still lived in poverty in 2018.”

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  61. Bert says:
    @Realist

    A major component of that wealth-transfer-system is advertising and public relations as developed by Edward Bernays, Freud’s nephew. Jews holding up (pun intended) the Earth, all the way down.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

    • Replies: @profnasty
  62. antibeast says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I worked at a Cupertino startup when Silicon Valley was young and our media hailed techies who boasted of their 9-9-6 schedules. The fact that Chinese techies are now doing the same is indicative of their growing clout and financial comfort. Ditto the ‘lying flat’ crowd: forerunners of our ‘turn on, tune in, drop out’ kids of yore.

    That kind of ‘9-9-6’ lifestyle no longer appeals to young Chinese millennials who are rediscovering traditional Chinese religions such as Buddhism:

    The rise of Chinese traditionalism has also reached fashion trends as reflected in the Hanfu boom in China:

    Besides the younger generation, the State sector never adopted the ‘9-9-6’ lifestyle as their Chinese employees work for the State to serve the Nation, not to make more money for themselves or their private companies.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Thanks: Sarah
  63. @Rahan

    Evangelicals spreading across China is bad news for all those who oppose Zionism or the biblical fantasies about the right of return of the Khazars to Palestine.

  64. Yee says:

    Mario Partisan,

    “The purpose was never overthrowing a capitalist class, as such a class really didn’t exist. The revolution was anti-feudal”
    “In short, what we call Communist revolutions are really the East’s State Capitalist Revolutions.”

    True. Actually, Mao wrote the same thing in 1939.

    The revolution was anti-feudal and anti-imperialism. He also wrote that the nature of Chinese revolution was a novel capitalist revolution.

    He defined “imperialism” in the acticle, imperialism is international capitalism.

    (The link is in Chinese language, an article of Mao written in 1939.)
    https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?src=11&timestamp=1625271781&ver=3167&signature=ghithqX9HIaGu0eTkkb2U1-5w016l4GldcpA0pegyuDl16ZkP6e58XGtowsG8vGACCuR1ehYxygXVuerbmq8f-nrLoawzTU3RK9QtUCgwX1zF84YGrxr5*RoLi92uRCd&new=1
    革命的锋芒也不是向着一切资本主义与资本主义的私有财产,而是向着帝国主义与封建独占。即然如此,所以现阶段中国革命的性质,不是无产阶级社会主义的,而是资产阶级民主主义的。
    ……
    这种革命正在中国与一切殖民地半殖民地国家发展起来,我们称这种革命为新民主主义的革命。
    这种新民主主义的革命是世界无产阶级社会主义革命的一部分,他是坚决反对帝国主义即国际资本主义的。

  65. onebornfree says: • Website

    “The Chinese system is called “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics.” The number one “Chinese characteristic” is “mercantilism,” which is basically the opposite of communism.”

    No, mercantilism is _not_ “the opposite of communism”. Never was, never will be.

    It’s just another handy label for a centralized (I.e state-run/enforced) system.

    Just another obfuscating label for state-run socialism, that’s all. Top down economic planning, in other words.

    Of course, Anglin, (like many here), being a full- on idiot socialist-in -love -with- government himself, does not/cannot see this, and is therefore enthralled with something called “socialism with Chinese characteristics”, as if it’s being “Chinese socialism” actually makes any fucking difference! 😂

    “Capitalism is the fullest expression of anarchism and anarchism is the fullest expression of capitalism.” Murray Rothbard

    “Regards” onebornfree

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Godfree Roberts
  66. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Don’t forget the 40 million murdered Chinese of The Great Stumble Backward.

    If you actually believe that Western propaganda about Mao’s Great Leap Forward, then you must believe that Emperor Hirohito was a nice guy because General MacArthur says so:

    • LOL: showmethereal
  67. @Anonymous

    Rome is the end, not the beginning. Jerusalem is the first center. In Acts 11, Antioch is another center. The trip to Rome marks the end of Acts.

    Paul also writes letters to many cities. Yes, Rome. But also in Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colossae and Thessaloniki. That is, many small churches are geographically defined.

  68. Realist says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    In Australia ‘democracy’ results in regimes comprising entirely of idiots, ignoramuses, sex pests, climate destabilisation denialists, moral cowards, stooges of the US and Israel, vicious Sinophobe racists, sadists and buffoons, with a superior specimen NOWHERE to be seen. It’s quite remarkable.

    If by climate destabilization denialists you mean those that do not believe in AGW…I disagree.

    • Agree: Fred777
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  69. @Sick of Orcs

    I think the big thing is that China’s continued efforts to improve itself and advance (whatever the methods) are to be respected. They don’t detract from us. Even America grew through intellectual property theft (robbing the Germans blind, and the Soviet Satellite). In China’s case, the technology was sometimes literally handed to them, which is something every single country letting production happen inside its country should ask for. One of the reasons the EU and US hated Gadaffi was his requirements for technical training of Libyans.

    Of course, you’ll find people who cheer China on as a way of wishing for your death (I’ve seen some of the fights). These people mostly are just leaking vengeance against wider issues they’ve seen. I get it too, because I want America to be better, and sometimes that means thinking it needs to die, like so many foolish people around the world. Then we remember our humanity, ha ha, and that we must work to uplift ourselves and each other to bring about a better order.

    The real thing is that every country should strive to be a modern China, just as they should have strived to be a 19th-century America way back when (post-slavery issue), or a Russia around 1912. It doesn’t mean copying everything. No one should copy, because Americans are their own special group with their own traditions, just as the Japanese are.

    It’s not perfect, because nothing is, but by taking what we can from the Chinese model, and maintain actual healthy trade relations (like China does, tariffs where appropriate, SOE’s where appropriate, and “free” trade where it’s healthy) we can prosper too.

    Even though any sensible country will always be dealing with our elites and industries on a political level, on a personal level, we are the ones who have more in common with them. Take advantage of that, and over here we can work to make our own country what it ought to be, rather than is.

  70. @antibeast

    I thought overall the Emperor meant well. Most of his failings though were not being able to actually control his own society and government in the 1930s. The Showa-Era ruined the dreams of Taisho.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  71. Rosie says:
    @onebornfree

    No, mercantilism is _not_ “the opposite of communism”. Never was, never will be.

    It’s just another handy label for a centralized (I.e state-run/enforced) system.

    Basically true. Mercantilism is a collectivist, statist system, the principal immediate beneficiaries of which are downscale native men, and in the medium term, downscale native women as well as domestic producers. In purpose and effects, it functions like socialist wealth redistribution, though its methods are different (and better). The more mercantilism you have, the less welfare you need.

    Now, can someone explain to me how avoidance of conflict with China follows,from a general approval of their system of governance? It seems to me that emulating China would necessarily lead to conflict. I have never claimed to be any sort of expert on political economy, so the question is sincere and not rhetorical.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  72. @Drapetomaniac

    the previous iterations of the first didn’t involve the goyim voluntarily handing their children to Jewish doctors to lop their genitals off.

  73. @onebornfree

    When he coined the phrase, “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics,” Mao intended it to mean Socialism with Confucian Characteristics. And Confucianism is clearly the most central characteristic of Chinese civilization.

    • Replies: @Rdm
    , @Rdm
  74. antibeast says:
    @Boomthorkell

    So you believe that Western propaganda sanitizing Hirohito while simultaneously demonizing Mao.

    To sanitize Hirohito, that Western propaganda requires you to disbelieve the ‘war crimes’ committed by the Imperial Japanese Army whose Commander-in-Chief was the Showa Emperor Hirohito during WWII. Those ‘war crimes’ committed by the Imperial Japanese Army under its Commander-in-Chief — the Showa Emperor Hirohito — during WWII easily qualify as ‘genocide’ in every sense of that word. Yet somehow Hirohito turned into some kind of a saint who had nothing to do with the ‘genocide’ committed by the Imperial Japanese Army in Asia during WWII.

    To demonize Mao, that Western propaganda also requires you to believe in the alleged ‘genocide’ committed by Mao during the Great Leap Forward which lasted three years from 1958-1962. Remember that Mao stepped down as President of China in 1959, just one year after the Great Leap Forward which was officially discontinued by Liu in 1962 due to widespread opposition to its economic policies promoting agricultural collectivization as recommended by Soviet advisers.

    What ‘crimes’ did Mao commit during the Great Leap Forward which would justify his demonization as one of the ‘worst mass murderers’ in history? Comparing Mao to Hirohito, who do you think would qualify as one of the ‘worst mass murderers’ in history?

  75. @Boomthorkell

    I think the big thing is that China’s continued efforts to improve itself and advance (whatever the methods) are to be respected.

    A good number of Unzfolk seem to forget the red chinese murdered 40 million of their countrymen and purged their own traditional culture and history. (Unfortunately, 40 million is too large a number for the mind to envision.) As communism has never worked, the red rice-oids had to carbon copy the capitalist system to get anywhere.

    The same Unzers who condemn judeo-tyranny of the West inexplicably praise the rice-oids for doing the same thing under a different brand.

    The Red States have a decent chance for survival, but only if they officially divorce the blue.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    , @last straw
  76. @antibeast

    If you actually believe that Western propaganda about Mao’s Great Leap Forward.

    Or you believe a communist government’s creative revisionism.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Joe Wong
  77. @animalogic

    What is it when the same people who own the Banks (and everything else) are the same people who populate the government?

    It’s neither a Democracy, nor is it a Republic. It is operating as designed by the Owners, for the Owners.

  78. @antibeast

    Mao was a screwup regardless of intent.
    He was the genius who started a war against sparrows. After the sparrow population was driven to near-extinction the locust population which sparrows kept in check ate the crops.

    Great Chinese Famine Alert!

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  79. @Anon

    Please excuse the troll tag. There was no Delusional Mongoloid tag available.

  80. utu says:

    For Mr. Anglin: “Don’t hope for things elsewhere: there’s no ship for you, there’s no road.”

    The City
    By Constantine P. Cavafy

    You said: “I’ll go to another country, go to another shore,
    find another city better than this one.
    Whatever I try to do is fated to turn out wrong
    and my heart lies buried like something dead.
    How long can I let my mind moulder in this place?
    Wherever I turn, wherever I look,
    I see the black ruins of my life, here,
    where I’ve spent so many years, wasted them, destroyed them totally.”

    You won’t find a new country, won’t find another shore.
    This city will always pursue you.
    You’ll walk the same streets, grow old
    in the same neighborhoods, turn gray in these same houses.
    You’ll always end up in this city. Don’t hope for things elsewhere:
    there’s no ship for you, there’s no road.
    Now that you’ve wasted your life here, in this small corner,
    you’ve destroyed it everywhere in the world.

    Or more simply: Wherever you go your derriere is right behind you.

  81. @antibeast

    Western racists hate Mao because he has turned out to be THE pivotal figure in recent human history. Racists don’t like ‘yellow devils’ outdoing them.

  82. @antibeast

    Oh, man. I’m not downplaying any Japanese war crimes. I also am not demonizing Mao, per se. He probably meant well too. What I’m saying is that Hirohito failed to exert proper control of his country and let the Army and Navy guide overall policy, then basically rubber stamped their rulings. I mean, I’m sure he was fine with being Emperor of a Greater Imperial Japan, he probably just didn’t specifically desire death and suffering or pass orders for mines run by slave labor in Indonesia. Etc.

    As far as worst mass murderers in the national-political sense, I think Mao and Hirohito probably come far behind the guys who organized the European Catastrophe.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  83. @Boomthorkell

    I hope for a better future for the US public. First the ruling elites will have to face Nuremberg type trials for the greatest crimes against humanity ever. Then the US will have to make reparations to all those countries it destroyed ie Korea, Indochina, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, etc, exploited ie most of the rest but particularly Latin America and subverted and sabotaged. I’d say one hundred trillion should cover it.
    Then the Five Eyes accomplices will have to be dealt with, particularly the UK, that owes India twenty trillion or so, at least. And Israel will need to be replaced by a multi-faith state, where Jews are welcome, if they behave nicely. Those that can’t can return to Brooklyn, Golders Green or Dover Heights.
    And the US can burn its ‘Constitution’ drawn up by its rich men, and create something more egalitarian and humane.

    • Thanks: Boomthorkell, Sarah
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Anon
  84. @Realist

    Anthropogenic climate destabilisation denialism has LONG eg about twenty years, been nothing but an obscurantist, pathopsychological, Rightwing death-cult dedicated to exterminating Life on Earth, that attracts the stupidest, most ignorant and most vicious ‘human’ detritus imaginable.

    • Replies: @Realist
  85. @Sick of Orcs

    Well, I’m positive many people died, and it probably numbered in the millions. Specific numbers and calculations are subject to both propaganda and changing facts. I kind of think the 40 million is a bit like the Jewish 6 million in that regards. I’m absolutely agreed though that Maoism and the Cultural Revolution were overall destructive for China and the Chinese people (there are arguments against that, but I’ll weigh against those at this stage). I don’t think anyone forgets the suffering, it’s more about where they are now and what are they doing now relative to America.

    Well, they did carbon copy it, but they copied the earlier version that actually made stuff and managed itself. Then, unlike the West, they never let those economic institutions wield political power, and then continued developing more complex control and response mechanisms, so they had a solidly nationalist economy, but one that was still profitable and competitive (tariffs and protectionism are solid competitive choices. Subsidies make sense in new economies.)

    If our Judeo-tyranny built high speed railroads and had me teaching students about how great our people are, I wouldn’t half mind it. So, whatever similarities one might imagine, that is not one of them. I mean, America never once disappeared a billionaire. Clearly, China’s “Jewish” overlords have no qualms there like ours. Nations that are genuinely similar to America don’t end up on its shit list. Poor Libya.

    Alas, that would be nice, but I think America will only split when the system itself fractures, and not a moment before. Personally, I’m still rooting for collapse, reform, then unification with Canada and Mexico in a more decentralized federal system.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  86. Rahan says:
    @utu

    Thanks for the links! Still, I don’t see J-20 as a Raptor copy. Visually it’s an obvious MiG 144 copy, no doubt with Raptor elements thrown in, invisible to the naked eye. Very likely a mix of both.

    What I’d really love to see is China purchasing the Soviet Buran space shuttle and making a fleet of knockoff Burans. https://buran.tass.com/moment-of-orbiting

    Keeping in mind how military tech has mostly stalled over the last 30 years and is constantly modernized versions of what was already available in the 1980s, if China has fighter planes based on a MiG-144/Raptor mix and Su-27/Su-33, tanks based on T-72, T-80, and Leopard, attack helicopters based on purchased European and Soviet tech with whatever Apache stuff got stolen, and a space fleet based on the Buran, then shit gets really hilarious.

    This means China has taken peak Soviet tech which the Russians planned to use to counteract peak US tech, beefed it up with whatever applicable Western stuff they could get, and uses it within the context of a vastly more efficient economy than that of the Soviets, against US tech which also is mostly from the era of peak Soviet tech.

    Boom! How to become a military world power in ten easy steps.
    https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2013-04/1367203065_26_11071_3d5130908b5cab3.jpg

  87. Yee says:

    Rahan,

    “I myself, though, would be highly skeptical of allowing evangelical Christianity of spreading through my country, if I am constantly called the “main enemy” by the Anglosphere.”

    So will I, even if one ignores the possible CIA involvements…

    I think it’s as bad as the Jews trying to chance America’s culture to Gobo- Homo… Why should civilizations subject to changes from a foreign culture?

  88. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Western propagandists claim that Mao ‘murdered’ 25 to 50 million people during the Great Leap Forward by allegedly ‘starving’ them to death. And yet the high estimate of the death toll in China during the Second Sino-Japanese War is 20 million after eight years of warfare. In other words, Mao’s Great Leap Forward somehow caused the deaths of 25 to 50 million people in three years of peacetime while the Second Sino-Japanese War caused the deaths of 20 million in eight years of wartime. That’s not possible considering that China had a grain surplus which was exported to the Soviet Union as part of the ‘grains-for-nukes’ deal signed in 1957. Also, China already had 30,000 kms of railroads by 1960, compared to 10,000 kms of railroads (mostly in Japanese-controlled Manchuria) during WWII. With that kind of infrastructure during peacetime which is necessary to transport food crops for export (as well as for domestic consumption), it’s not possible for the Great Leap Forward to cause that kind of death toll exceeding the Second Sino-Japanese War during WWII.

    What is the truth? The truth is that Western propagandists fabricated the alleged death toll of 25 to 50 million by paying both Chinese and Western researchers to conduct spurious studies based on dubious ‘statistical evidence’ to demonize Mao. This Western propaganda effort was dictated by the political exigencies of the Cold War which required sanitizing Hirohito while the rehabilitating Japan as the US bulwark against Soviet Communism in Asia.

    Everyone knows that the Imperial Japanese Army waged an imperialist war of aggression against China, Korea, Southeast Asia, India and the West by committing ‘war crimes’ which caused the deaths of up to 30 million people in Asia, including several hundred thousand Western POWs treated as slave labor during WWII. Yet after WWII, MacArthur protected Hirohito and other Japanese officers from prosecution for ‘war crimes’ including the notorious Lieutenant General Shiro Ishii who ran the infamous Unit 731 bioweapons lab of the Imperial Japanese Army.

    The political exigencies of the Cold War forced the Yanks to abandon the Japanese war crimes trials. The Western propagandists then proceeded to ‘sanitize’ Hirohito as the USA waged a Cold War to contain Soviet Communism in Asia. To this day, the USA has remained silent on the ‘war crimes’ committed by the Imperial Japanese Army during WWII while the US servicemen who suffered from those ‘war crimes’ have not received any apology nor compensation from Japan. All you hear in the USA is “Nazi this, Nazi that” but when it comes to the Japs, nary a single word.

    THAT is the truth.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
  89. @Anonymous

    Sorry, but Catholicism is based on historical lies. Peter and Paul are fictitious. They never existed. It’s all bogus. Those who want to study up should check out this article:

    The curious career of “Saint Peter” – Linking Rome back to the Godman
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/peter.htm

    Also this video:

    • Thanks: Sarah
  90. @anon

    As long as the male/female imbalance remains in China you should expect strong tendencies towards either homosexuality or Buddhism in China. If you have excess males who are not being killed off in war (I personally don’t expect China to initiate a major war, though they may move on Taiwan eventually) then some of those males will have to lean towards a lifestyle which is other than heterosexual pairing. That means either religion (most likely Buddhism, though Christianity has spread in Asia too) or some other eclectic lifestyle choice (with homosexuality being one of the more obvious possibilities). This problem will only change if more average Chinese accept the idea of breeding a daughters-only family. It’s not so clear that the Chinese government can effectively dictate this.

  91. Realist says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    As I said before your pseudonym says it all.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  92. @antibeast

    Either the Great Chinese Famine was real or it wasn’t.

    Based on evidence, it appears to have been a real event, corroborated by eyewitnesses.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

    Referring to post-war relations between MacArthur and Hirohito have no bearing on this. Japanese war crimes do appear to have been glossed over, but as is often the case, the truth is rarely an obstacle to any government’s schemes.

    The red chinese seem delighted with their system because the alternative is Or Else. There’s very little to admire about a system where everyone is expendable for any reason.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @d dan
    , @profnasty
  93. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Rosie

    “Mercantilism is a collectivist, statist system, the principal immediate beneficiaries of which are downscale native men, and in the medium term, downscale native women as well as domestic producers. In purpose and effects, it functions like socialist wealth redistribution, though its methods are different (and better). The more mercantilism you have, the less welfare you need.”

    Garbage. The beneficiaries are the government and its government protected corporate sycophants.

    Mercantilism is just another welfare system- the welfare recipients being the corporations themselves.

    You delude yourself, there is no “better” form of socialism , regardless of whether it’s labelled “fascism”, “mercantilism”, “chinese socialism”, or whatever.

    ” socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, as the socialists would like you to believe, but a consolidate-and-control-the-wealth program for the Insiders.”
    Gary Allen, None Dare Call It Conspiracy

    “If you have total government it makes little difference whether you call it Communism, Fascism, Socialism, Caesarism or Pharaohism. It’s all pretty much the same from the standpoint of the people who must live and suffer under it.”
    Gary Allen, None Dare Call It Conspiracy

    “Why are the super-rich for socialism? Don’t they have the most to lose? I take a look at my bank account and compare it with Nelson Rockefeller’s and it seems funny that I’m against socialism and he’s out promoting it.” Or is it funny? In reality, there is a vast difference between what the promoters define as socialism and what it is in actual practice. The idea that socialism is a share-the-wealth program is strictly a confidence game to get the people to surrender their freedom to an all-powerful collectivist government. While the Insiders tell us we are building a paradise on earth, we are actually constructing a jail for ourselves.”
    Gary Allen, None Dare Call It Conspiracy

    “Regards” onebornfree

  94. antibeast says:
    @Boomthorkell

    You’re just repeating Western propaganda about Hirohito’s innocence. If pictures are worth more than a thousand words, then the video below sums up the case against Hirohito:

    Need I say more?

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Boomthorkell
  95. Roger says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Actually, the entire US population numbers about 337 million, not 237 million. Get the facts right, then speculate.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  96. @Boomthorkell

    Well, they did carbon copy it, but they copied the earlier version that actually made stuff and managed itself. Then, unlike the West, they never let those economic institutions wield political power, and then continued developing more complex control and response mechanisms, so they had a solidly nationalist economy, but one that was still profitable and competitive (tariffs and protectionism are solid competitive choices. Subsidies make sense in new economies.)

    The Founders knew governments always move from bad to worse: newly-acquired wealth doesn’t change this and red china won’t be any different. (In the early days of the soviet union, the American “intellectual” dupes heaped endless praise on that system, too)

    If our Judeo-tyranny built high speed railroads and had me teaching students about how great our people are, I wouldn’t half mind it.

    When America’s capitalist ‘exploiters’ were White, traditional values and a much stronger nationalism kept them in check. Thanks to post-WW2 (((immigration))) our people were changed with the lie that “diversity is our strength.” Geeks like gates have no national loyalty, neither do the poltroons in congress.

    Personally, I’m still rooting for collapse, reform, then unification with Canada and Mexico in a more decentralized federal system.

    Red State Secession is the most logical way to move forward. It can be done non-violently–and better–as both Red and blue states have nukes.

  97. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Mao was a screwup regardless of intent. He was the genius who started a war against sparrows. After t he sparrow population was driven to near-extinction the locust population which sparrows kept in check ate the crops.

    In other words, Mao is guilty of ‘genocide’ against sparrows, thus qualifying him as the greatest ‘mass murderer’ of sparrows in world history.

    Great Chinese Famine Alert!

    Great Sparrows Genocide Alert!

  98. Polemos says:
    @d dan

    So, if you care about the environment, the Earth, the climate, then change your habit first, then your family, then your community, then your country, before pointing finger at others…

    Have, do, are. Thus, I am, by your argument, entitled to point my finger, but I’m not simply pointing. The point I’m making applies to all humans: we are all One, d dan. Did you miss that in your editing of my comment? I think you did, will, and, if you are ideologically motivated, must in remaining consistent with your perception.

    When touting the attempts by China to use solar and wind energy production, understand that these methods are counter productive to long-term generation of growth and development. Solar cells use increasingly sparse and prohibitively unrecoverable elements in their current designs and have nowhere near the versatility and ubiquity as that other, more efficient solar energy producer: the chloroplast. Plants and algaes and other biomethods for converting sunlight and materials into usable forms of energy are the only definitive and proven technology capable of sustaining diverse forms of life. You are what you are because they worked for billions of years prior to your conception. Human anthropocentrism prevents most humans from seeing their folly and the wisdom of a much more ancient means of converting the planet into meaningful spirit. Listen to the trees, lately?

    As for windmills and turbines, what happens to them after they die in fifteen years from ordinary use? How are they disposed? Are you aware of this, been to the specialized landfills capable of receiving them, seen the manner of their destruction? And when they are alive, are they consistent and powerful enough to fuel the unending needs of urban sprawl?

    You didn’t make an apologetic for China here. You demonstrate how it too succumbs to the same antispiritual motivations that continue to destroy the planet for the life that has been here and will have to evolve new means to survive the ecological collapse caused, in part, by those very same con artist technologies you’re citing as proof of progressive thinking. You prove my point, blah blah.

    It is good to have more efficient means of travel and producing material, sure. But the end of these modes is not for the fulfillment of genuine human spirituality but the same crass indulgence you recognize as what pollutes and degrades “the West.” They will hit the Wall only faster and more unawares, fueled by their own cultural belief in their own Chosen status too. Have they no sense of the Tao too?

    Again, we are all One. We will all suffer our ignorance and their problems are certainly our problems. No one gets out of this alive.

  99. Yee says:

    Patrick McNally,

    “As long as the male/female imbalance remains in China you should expect strong tendencies towards either homosexuality or Buddhism in China. ”

    America has a marriage rate even lower than China… So, I guess your country need homosexuality or Buddhism more than we do.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  100. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Either the Great Chinese Famine was real or it wasn’t.

    There were famines caused by droughts and floods during that period which had nothing to do with the economic policies of the Great Leap Forward. But those were isolated incidents which would have caused the deaths of at most a few hundred thousand people, not the diabolical 25 to 50 million figures put forth by Western propagandists. There is no mass consciousness of a ‘Great Famine’ which would have been etched into the living memory of succeeding generations. Instead, the people living in places such as Sichuan where the worst famines were supposed to have taken place are fond of Mao to this day. Most photographs taken during that period show a bunch of people eating together in communal settings or building backyard furnaces which implies their strong sense of community. Even CIA studies show feverish economic activity as seen in increased steel production and rail traffic during that time.

    The fatal flaw in the ‘Great Famine’ hypothesis is its premise that the ‘missing’ population of 25 to 50 million must be due to ‘excess deaths’ caused by mass starvation. But the ‘missing’ population could be attributed to simple factors such as the decline in births during that period which some estimates put at 35 million! Natural causes of death such as disease, malnutrition, old age, etc. will add a few more million ‘excess deaths’, thus accounting for most of the ‘missing’ population.

    By way of comparison, wartime conditions impose the most severe form of economic deprivation known to humans. And yet during the Second Sino-Japanese War, about half of the estimated 20 million deaths were caused by warfare which means the other half (10 million) can be attributed to unnatural causes of death such as war-induced famines. That death rate caused by war-induced famines is about 1.2 million per year (10 million divided by eight years). If we multiply that by three, that gives 3.6 million ‘excess deaths’ caused by wartime deprivation for three years. The idea that the economic deprivation of the Great Leap Forward which lasted three years could have caused ‘excess deaths’ in the range of 25 to 50 million that would have been SEVEN to FOURTEEN times worse than the 3.6 million ‘excess deaths’ caused by wartime deprivation (for the same period of three years) is ludicrous. THAT is simply not possible, not in any way, shape or form.

    Occam’s Razor says the news of 25 to 50 million ‘excess deaths’ during the Great Leap Forward is greatly exaggerated, as Mark Twain would have put it, while the news of 30 million ‘excess deaths’ caused by the imperialist war of aggression waged by Emperor Hirohito as the Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Army is an undisputed and well-documented FACT.

    Any more questions?

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  101. Yee says:

    Sick of Orcs,

    “Either the Great Chinese Famine was real or it wasn’t.
    Based on evidence, it appears to have been a real event, corroborated by eyewitnesses..”

    “eyewitnesses”… This is where the story falls apart… The “eyewitnesses” only exist on paper – reports/books, but never in real life.

    There were supposed to be 1 death in 15, you’d think there’d be plenty of eyewitnesses around us in real life, possibly every family know someone who starved to death, yet there wasn’t anyone who claim to personally know such a victim, though people all mention a tight ration.

    That’s why it’s fraud.

    • Agree: antibeast
    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  102. Antiwar7 says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    That has nothing to do with whether or not China is technologically innovative. Do you have a problem thinking logically?

    And if you’re bringing up red herrings, how many millions of people have been killed unnecessarily by the US government’s rampage around the world since WW II? Does that have any bearing on how technologically innovative they are?

    • LOL: profnasty
  103. @Realist

    “The Chinese do not spend one fen on racial problems.”

    Actually – they do spend quite a bit of time and money promoting ethnic minorities in China. The major difference is they weren’t brought there as slaves – nor are they immigrants from different continents. Their ethnic groups live where they lived for many centuries. So there isn’t the same tension involved. Different dynamic.

    • Agree: Boomthorkell
    • Replies: @Realist
  104. @Sick of Orcs

    If the United States was as densely populated as China – then do you know how many people would have died in the Dust Bowl era??? Are the people who caused the bad policies that led to the Dust Bowl called “murderers”????
    Bad policy doesn’t equal murder.. Unless you judge all by the same.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  105. @antibeast

    Great comment. One of the differences is the Germans killed white people… Japanese killed Asians. Had Japanese killed whites – they wouldn’t have been rehabilitated. Though they did treat their white POW’s horribly – it’s not the same as killing millions of whites….. The other part is the Japanese willingly bowed down after those atomic bombs… Even refusing to face their new masters in a sign of humility and shame.

  106. @Yee

    You’ll notice that the US is already clogged with that and much more, consistent with what I suggested about China.

  107. d dan says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    “Based on evidence, it appears to have been a real event, corroborated by eyewitnesses.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine”

    A little friendly advice. When debating controversial issue on “red” China, don’t quote wikipedia. It immediately destroy your credibility and exposes your ignorance. It is like quoting NYTimes for “eyewitnesses” when you are attacking Trump.

  108. d dan says:
    @antibeast

    “Western propaganda about Hirohito’s innocence…”

    Western propaganda about Hirohito is just part of their larger lies about Japanese society as pacific, honorable, restrained, …blah, blah. It is a nauseating propaganda to cover up their own insecurity and projection. Even today, they still want to believe Fukushima nuclear leak is a pure natural disaster. You hear some complaining that Chinese solar cell is still not energy efficient enough, but few mention about Japanese plan to dispose the nuclear waste. You hear them complaining about Chinese eating dogs but never mention about Japanese killing whale and dolphin (even after signing treaty not to hunt them). You hear them complaining about Chinese “expansionism” in South China Sea but few knows about the 1000x much more ridiculous Okinotori claim. You hear about Chinese bad quality products but few even heard about the Kobe Steel, Mitsubishi Electric scandals…

    Of course, if you go to pre-WW2, the contrasts are even more stark. Just note how Japan treated their POWs (torture, forced labors, bio-warfare, beheading…) vs how China treated American and UN POWs during Korea War, or how Japan launched multiple sneak attacks against China, Soviet, British, US,… vs how many warnings China issued before entering any wars with Korea, India, Vietnam,…

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  109. @d dan

    I considered your suggestion, but since wikipedia is (((compromised))) regardless, it’s more surprising the Great Chinese Famine entry wasn’t simply memory-holed already.

  110. @antibeast

    “After the launch of Reforms and Opening Up, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially stated in June 1981 that the famine was mainly due to the mistakes of the Great Leap Forward as well as the Anti-Rightist Campaign, in addition to some natural disasters and the Sino-Soviet split.”

    So by the CCP’s admission there was a famine, and not just due to natural disasters.

    communism remains a lethal failure. Unlike a subject in red china, a US citizen is free to leave.

  111. @Yee

    Eyewitnesses are one part of the whole. In a society where opposing the official narrative could mean death, I’m surprised there were any at all willing to speak out.

    One of several reasons for the famine–which in 1981 the CCP acknowledged occurred–was no one was willing to report crop quota failures. It was likely safer to risk starvation than the wrath of Mao.

    And there were/are famine survivors.

    https://www-latimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.latimes.com/world/great-reads/la-fg-c1-china-great-famine-20151014-story.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&_amp=true&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16254326621029&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fworld%2Fgreat-reads%2Fla-fg-c1-china-great-famine-20151014-story.html

  112. Rdm says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Confucius is one of the pillars in the UK and the US back in 1800-1900 teaching on Law and Order. That’s why it was one of the statutes in Supreme Court building. During the last 50 years, western nations took a different approach, dissing anything East Asians and now seeing themselves their nations decaying into globohomo cliques. We can observe in recent outburst of Hungarians in Budapest on Chinese university setup.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fhermonatkinsmacneil.com%2F2012%2F01%2F13%2Fhermon-macneils-supreme-court-sculptures-moses-revisited%2F&psig=AOvVaw0tZSHKKjUePzQ-F-OCO9MU&ust=1625522575769000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAcQjRxqFwoTCKiwutS1yvECFQAAAAAdAAAAABAj

  113. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    “After the launch of Reforms and Opening Up, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially stated in June 1981 that the famine was mainly due to the mistakes of the Great Leap Forward as well as the Anti-Rightist Campaign, in addition to some natural disasters and the Sino-Soviet split.”

    That was AFTER Deng had taken over the CCP in 1978 and AFTER the USA had established diplomatic ties with the PRC in 1979. Deng’s CCP then proceeded to collaborate with the USA by adopting pro-Capitalist ‘market’ reforms thus reversing the Socialist policies of the Maoist Era. Western propagandists then worked hand in hand with Chinese collaborators to fabricate ‘statistical evidence’ against the Great Leap Forward in order to ‘demonize’ Mao.

    Sometimes, too much of something makes it bad. In the case of the Western propaganda ‘demonizing’ Mao and ‘sanitizing’ Hirohito, it is so glaringly obvious that there is a political motive behind the campaign which is to discredit ‘Communist China’ while rehabilitating ‘Democratic Japan’, by equating such Great Leap Forward policies as — killing of sparrows, building backyard furnaces, sharing food in a commune, mass mobilization to build public works — with ‘genocide’ while ignoring the ‘war crimes’ committed by the Imperial Japanese Army during WWII. By the way, Western propagandists didn’t accord ‘Democratic India’ the same treatment as ‘Democratic Japan’ because post-war India was allied with the Soviet Union, a big no-no during the Cold War.

    Indian economist Amartya Sen noted that ‘Communist China’ outperformed ‘democratic’ India throughout the Maoist Era, even during the worst years of the Great Leap Forward as shown in the graph below:

    If the same criteria used against ‘Communist China’ was applied to ‘democratic’ India, Sen wryly observed that Indian leaders would have to be ‘condemned’ as the worst ‘mass-murderers’ in world history due to the sheer numbers of excess deaths in ‘democratic’ India relative to ‘Communist China’ during the ENTIRE period of the Maoist Era from 1949 to 1976. Western propagandists don’t even bother making this comparison between India and China as Sen did because doing so would completely eviscerate their politically-motivated diatribe against Mao.

    • Disagree: Malla
  114. Yee says:

    Sick of Orcs,

    “In a society where opposing the official narrative could mean death, I’m surprised there were any at all willing to speak out.
    It was likely safer to risk starvation than the wrath of Mao.”

    Grandma and grandpa might not be able to recall what they had for breakfast this morning, but they have no trouble recalling their youth in 1960… I’m quite sure grandparents are not scared to talk about the old times.

    There’re still plenty of old people around to talk to, if someone is curious about the past.

    The question still remains, if it was as widespread as 1 death in 15, how come no one in real life personally know such a victim?

  115. Dumbo says:

    Not a great fan of the Chinese, they have a strange culinary culture and tend to be cruel to children and animals from a Western perspective, and they are too authoritarian, but good on them, I guess.

    I think they are really more Fascist than Communist right now.

    In fact, I don’t get it why they just don’t drop all the commie symbolism, like that ugly red flag with yellow stars.

    The “Yellow Dragon” flag was much cooler:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Qing_dynasty

    Xi Ping could just declare himself an Emperor, for all I care.

  116. @showmethereal

    Bad policy doesn’t equal murder.. Unless you judge all by the same.

    Mao was a murderous, drug-addled psychopath. How is his fear-based reign even remotely comparable to the U.S. government of the time?

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  117. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Sichuan was supposed to be the hardest hit of all the provinces in China. So I asked my in-laws who grew up in Sichuan during the 50s and 60s how they survived the ‘Great Famine’ of the Great Leap Forward. Here’s what they told me:

    “‘Great Famine’? Life was hard but there was no ‘Great Famine’ as Mao made sure everybody had something to eat!”.

    You can travel all over China today and ask the same question to anyone in their 60s and you will pretty much get the same answer.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  118. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Mao was a murderous, drug-addled psychopath. How is his fear-based reign even remotely comparable to the U.S. government of the time?

    How about General Douglas MacArthur granting immunity to Dr. Shirō Ishii? Not only did the US government protect Ishii from prosecution in exchange for bioweapons data from his notorious Unit 731 but invited him to give lectures at Ft. Detrick.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-12-18-me-1014-story.html

    What took place at the Japanese prisoner-of-war camp known as Unit 731 was unspeakable. More than 3,000 Chinese and Russian prisoners died at the camp in occupied China, the victims of germ warfare experiments by the Japanese during World War II.

    But what happened after the Allied victory in 1945 is just as chilling, said Cal State Northridge history professor Sheldon Harris: The United States secretly protected the Japanese army doctors of Unit 731 from prosecution as war criminals. In return, the Japanese officers gave U.S. military authorities the data from their grisly human experiments.

    Your US government of the time must be a kind, generous and peaceful one.

  119. “中国” means “China” and “共产党” is translated as “communist party” in English. The word is “Gòngchǎndǎng.” That is “gong,” “chǎn” and “dǎng.” A direct translation, as it would be spoken in Chinese, would be “The Party of People Working Together to be Productive.” That is how it sounds in Chinese, and that is how people hear it in Chinese. In the Chinese mind, there is no reference to Marx, collectivization, abolition of property, or anything else that is associated with Marxist communism.

    This was helpful, thanks.

  120. @antibeast

    Can’t your in-laws accounts and others’ accounts both be true?

    Documenting China’s lost history of famine

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-17987733

  121. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    The problem that I have with Western narratives on the Great Leap Forward is that they’re intended to serve as a political polemic against Maoist Communism. Even their so-called Chinese sources including CCP officials have questionable integrity after Deng’s decision to strike a ‘deal’ with the West. What happened during the 80s was that Deng’s CCP collaborated with Western propagandists to ‘demonize’ Mao by discrediting Maoist Communism. That’s when all these so-called ‘research studies’ published by both Chinese and Western sources started coming out claiming to have discovered an alleged ‘Great Famine’ during the Great Leap Forward.

    To disabuse ourselves of the political polemic behind the Western narratives on the Great Leap Forward, one can ascertain what really happened by gathering material evidence from that time period such as photographs which should show masses of people dying in the streets. An alleged Great Famine of that magnitude would have affected lots of people (one in ten). So the other option is to interview people who lived through that period to get an idea of what really happened during that time. I tried both options but could not find a single photograph showing masses of people dying in the streets nor a single person who lived through that era claiming to have seen people dying in the streets. Moreover, there is no collective consciousness of an alleged ‘Great Famine’ during the Great Leap Forward as people generally thought of that frenetic period as a difficult but productive time with lots of new roads, railways, dams, canals, steel mills, etc.. being built.

    It is quite easy to fabricate ‘statistical evidence’ but no ‘material evidence’ can exist if a certain phenomenon did not actually happen. My conclusion is that Western narratives on the Great Leap Forward is fraudulent from inception as they were intended not as a historical account but as a political polemic against Maoist Communism. Even their so-called ‘estimates’ of the alleged death toll caused by the Great Leap Forward — which range from 25 to 50 million — is too high to be credible, mostly by ignoring the decline in births during that period which is its fatal flaw. By way of comparison, the death toll caused by the Second Sino-Japanese War during wartime is estimated at 20 million. In other words, the alleged death toll of the Great Leap Forward during peacetime is supposed to be higher than the estimated death toll of the Second Sino-Japanese War during wartime!!! How is that possible? Well, the short answer: not possible. That’s why Western propagandists had to concoct an alleged death toll HIGHER than 20 million to make Mao look worse than Hirohito.

    To show just how absurd the Western narratives on the Great Leap Forward is, Amartya Sen wryly observed that had the same criteria used to ‘demonize’ Mao as the world’s greatest ‘mass murderer’ be applied to India, then Indian leaders would easily take that morbid title as India had far worse life expectancy during the ENTIRE period of Maoist Communism from 1949-1976, including its worst years of the Great Leap Forward.

    Any more questions?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Sick of Orcs
  122. @anon

    ro-globohomo/LGBT in the media. Obviously nowhere near as bad as in the west, but go on state media like globaltimes or sixthtone.com and you’ll see tons of pro-gay stuff. Sixthtone even runs stuff attacking Chinese citizens in the same style as American media.

    Sixthtone is the liberal media of China – literally staffed by gays – I think every nation has one.

    • Replies: @anon
  123. Ron Unz says:
    @antibeast

    That’s when all these so-called ‘research studies’ published by both Chinese and Western sources started coming out claiming to have discovered an alleged ‘Great Famine’ during the Great Leap Forward.

    Well, I don’t mean to divert the discussion, but I can’t remember if you were involved in that lengthy discussion we had last year on the alleged Great Leap Forward famine. To me the evidence seems absolutely overwhelming, especially when we consider China’s subsequent population pyramid based upon official statistics:

    As you can see, there’s a *gigantic* “hole” in the age-cohort born around the GLF years, presumably due to very high infant-mortality and reduced-fertility, with 40-50% of the children being “missing.” That seems like exactly what one would expect to see after a huge famine, and suggests population losses well into the tens of millions, since many non-infants obviously died as well.

    Back a few months ago, I’d read TOMBSTONE, written by a retired high-ranking PRC journalist, with the assistance of many other PRC provincial officials and demography experts. He included a 40 page chapter presenting about 8-10 different demographic estimates of the total GLF losses, most of which seemed to be in the range of 35 million deaths, with additional tens of millions of population losses due to reduced fertility. I think those sorts of numbers seem pretty consistent with the official population-pyramid.

    https://www.unz.com/article/poverty-and-inequality-in-china/?showcomments#comment-4171272

    • Thanks: Boomthorkell
  124. @d dan

    I mean, I personally don’t know anyone who has denied any of these things about Japan (past or present). Then again, maybe we’re overly literate weebs here. It definitely goes to show though how those favored by the Empire are…well, favored as you show.

    I don’t ever fault sneak attacks from anyone as a strategy (or open announcing warnings). My only complaint is if a society complains about sneak attacks while utilizing advanced technological support like missile and air support (US propaganda complaining about the cowardice of IEDs while simultaneously expanding the US of drone strikes. Firebombing in the older days, etc.)

    • Replies: @d dan
  125. @antibeast

    Unit 731 certainly was a place, and the US government definitely recruited the head of it for further “RND.”

  126. Realist says:
    @showmethereal

    Actually – they do spend quite a bit of time and money promoting ethnic minorities in China.

    I said nothing about spending money on ethnic groups, my comment was The Chinese do not spend one fen on racial problems

    The ethnicities in China are all the same race. If only that were the case in the United States…things would be much better.

  127. @Ron Unz

    That book Tombstone was just another example of how people misuse fake statistics. I went through all the essential stuff about some years when reviewing it on Amazon.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2M5L9DYPMIXWP?ref=pf_ov_pdctrvw_srp

    All of the points made there apply to other propaganda authors such as Jung Chang and The Black Book of Communism.

  128. antibeast says:
    @Ron Unz

    I remember that conversion we had in that thread. But I concluded based on the population pyramid that the decline in the birth rates during that period would amount to tens of millions of unborn children which would substract substantially from the alleged death toll of tens of millions during the Great Leap Forward (GLF), leaving only millions not tens of millions of excess deaths.

    As for authors like Yang Jisheng, his work is similar to other ‘research studies’ which draw upon ‘statistical evidence’, neither of which are incontrovertible given their political nature. I am a not demographer but an engineer by training but I can still grasp what they’re trying to convey using ‘statistical evidence’. However, in the field of ‘systems’ engineering, one can model the behavior of ‘systems’ by treating it as a ‘box’ with a set of ‘inputs’ and ‘outputs’, without the need to understand the internal structure of the ‘systems’ being modeled.

    My response today would be to compare the imputed death toll of 25-50M caused by economic deprivation during the GLF which lasted three years with the estimated death toll of 10M caused by economic deprivation, excluding the estimated 10M deaths caused by warfare, during the Second Sino-Japanese War (SSJW) which lasted eight years. The imputed GLF death rate comes to 8.3-16.6M/yr while the estimated SSJW death rate comes to 1.25M/yr. From a ‘systems’ engineering framework, let’s treat each event as a ‘system’ and model it as a ‘box’ with a set of ‘inputs’ and ‘outputs’. The ‘inputs’ can be the length of railroads, food production, steel production and other factors of national productivity which could affect the ‘outputs’ such as birth rate, death rate, infant mortality, child mortality, life expectancy, etc.

    Given the ‘inputs’ for the two events, the model breaks down because of the incredible disparity in ‘outputs’ between the two events as the GLF death rate is 13.28x (16.6/1.25) worse than the SSJW death rate. How can the ‘outputs’ — in terms of the death rate — of the Great Leap Forward be 13.28x worse than the Second Sino-Japanese War given the overwhelmingly superior ‘inputs’ — in terms of length of railroads, food production, steel production, etc. — of the Great Leap Forward when compared to the Second Sino-Japanese War? This is physically impossible as proven mathematically using a ‘systems’ approach here.

    Applying the death rate of the Second Sino-Japanese War to the three year period of the Great Leap Forward would give 3.75M (1.25×3) deaths due to economic deprivation during peacetime. This is the worst case scenario as economic deprivation during wartime should be a LOT worse than during peacetime. This ‘systems’ approach of modeling the two events — GLF and SSJW — validates my conclusion that the death rate must be in the millions not tens of millions as noted above.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  129. d dan says:
    @Boomthorkell

    “I don’t ever fault sneak attacks from anyone as a strategy …”

    Sorry you are too simplistic in your statement like most Westerners that I know. Westerners seldom give much thought about this – and I personally have been in the receiving end many times, including being “ambushed” (LOL) here in Unz.

    If you think sneak attack is fine as a strategy (for whatever purpose, e.g. to gain advantage), just imagine if you are invited to a friendly dinner party with good friends. Suppose a trusted old friend started to spread bad words (with facts, evidences, pictures, video,…) about you to hurt your business or professionally, and with you totally unprepared and defenseless, his words become accepted in your community. Would you consider this to be a honorable strategy?

    Sneak attack during war, however, is totally acceptable because both sides know they are enemy, and both sides understand sneak attack is one of the available strategic tool. In contrast, sneak attack among friends or even casual acquaintance maneuvering for advantage is not considered and should not be part of MO of the human relationship (from Chinese perspective). What the Japanese had done was considered 100% despicable by Chinese. And the worse is that many Japanese still don’t believe they had done wrong (sort of, but not entirely, mean justifies the end), and thus making us believing that they will do it again if given a chance.

    “…(or open announcing warnings)…”

    The opening warnings serve as a way to allow the receiver to know that the relationship has been transitioning from a friendly/disinterested one to open hostility. It is a way to give both sides a chance to rescue the relationship, to avoid war, to seek political solution/negotiation, etc. Chinese issued so many warnings to US not to cross the 38 parallel in Korea, they were literally screaming aloud. Unfortunately, US was too arrogant and racist that millions had to die to learn the lesson. They did eventually learn not to cross the 17 parallel in Vietnam.

    “while utilizing advanced technological support like missile and air support…”

    This is irrelevant – it is like blaming the hammer does not help you with the screw. Missile and air support could be as much a stabilizing tool if put in proper context. There are people who believe nuclear weapon / ICBM is the reason that prevent WW3, or at least prevent war between major powers.

  130. Yee says:

    Sick of Orcs,

    “Survivors tell the camera the hidden tale of China’s Great Famine”

    According to Japanese government, about 2000 people starved to death every year. If I put those 2000 on camera, would it prove a great famine of 40 million death?

    40 million people did not live in caves in isolation, they lived in villages, communities and neighbourhoods, they had relatives, friends, co-workers. Even if they had only 15 acquaintance each (this can’t be too much to ask, don’t you have more than 15 of relatives, friends, neighbours and co-workers who know you personally?), one should be able to at random find someone knows one of the 40 millions. Yet they can’t be found, you can only find them in some sort of publications.

    • Agree: antibeast
  131. Yevardian says:
    @utu

    You should really post these to the “Newslinks” section, you post some of the more interesting URLs among the commenters here.

    • Thanks: utu
  132. Malla says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    that owes India twenty trillion

    Twenty trillion? How so?

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  133. Ron Unz says:
    @antibeast

    But I concluded based on the population pyramid that the decline in the birth rates during that period would amount to tens of millions of unborn children which would substract substantially from the alleged death toll of tens of millions during the Great Leap Forward (GLF), leaving only millions not tens of millions of excess deaths.

    Distinguishing between a large rise in infant mortality and a large decline in fertility is hardly trivial, at least by merely glancing at a population pyramid, and both those developments would surely occur during a huge famine. The GLF ran 1958-1962 and the pyramid comes from 1982, so offhand it looks to me like a substantial fraction of the children who were under 6 at the beginning of the GLF also “disappeared,” which obviously wouldn’t have been due to infertility issues. From what I remember, there were many thousands of reported cases of cannibalism in harder-hit areas, which also tends to be a good indicator of a horrific famine.

    Frankly, I’d originally opened TOMBSTONE as something of a skeptic, but the 40 page chapter using a variety of different statistical methods to attempt to estimate the population losses of the GLF seemed pretty convincing. I’m curious whether you’ve actually read the book yourself and if so, why you found it so unpersuasive.

  134. @Rahan

    Why would Christianity spread in China when it hasn’t for hundreds of years of missionary work, when the Chinese are better educated and richer than ever, and Chinese can see the lunacy of ‘Christianity’ in the West, particularly the USA? Just more black propaganda.

    • Replies: @Rahan
  135. @Sick of Orcs

    The BBC!??? Are you joking? Lying, racist, Sinophobes working for the UK Ruling Class.

  136. @Realist

    As does yours-‘magical realist’. Logic need not apply.

  137. antibeast says:
    @Ron Unz

    To tell you my honest view of TOMBSTONE and other ‘research studies’ of a similar nature, I would say they are bunk because their ‘statistical evidence’ is highly suspect given the fact that Deng’s CCP conspired with Western propagandists to ‘demonize’ Mao by discrediting Maoist Communism. Their fatal flaw is ignoring the decline in birth rates while including tens of millions of ‘unborn children’ as excess deaths caused by economic deprivation during the Great Leap Forward.

    I would rely more on people like Indian economist Amartya Sen, an expert on famines, who has studied ‘Communist China’ under Mao’s rule from 1949-1976. Sen admitted that ‘Communist China’ outperformed ‘Democratic India’ throughout the ENTIRE period of Mao’s rule including the worst years of the Great Leap Forward. He noted wryly that if the West had applied the same criteria to India, then Indian leaders would easily win the morbid title of the “worst mass-murderers in history”. Here’s a graph showing the life expectancy of China vs India:

    Note the huge increase in life expectancy in China which was 10+ more years than India AFTER the Great Leap Forward. This also validates my earlier ‘systems’ model whereby increased factor inputs of railways, roads, dams, canals, steel mills, etc. also increased the standard of living outputs as expressed in life expectancy, birth rate, etc. AFTER the Great Leap Forward.

    Again, my earlier ‘systems’ model invalidates the ‘Great Famine’ hypothesis because peacetime deprivation during the Great Leap Forward could not have been 6-13x WORSE than wartime deprivation during the Second Sino-Japanese War, given the much higher factor inputs during peacetime than at wartime. No matter how much the Western propagandists and their Chinese collaborators try to ‘demonize’ Mao by discrediting Maoist Communism, it is physically impossible that there could have been 6-13x more ‘excess deaths’ during the Great Leap Forward than during the Second Sino-Japanese War, given the much higher factor inputs in terms of railways, food production, steel mills, canals, dams, roads, etc. during peacetime than wartime.

    In conclusion, something as tragic as a ‘Great Famine’ of that magnitude imputed by Western propagandists and their Chinese collaborators would have been accompanied by social unrest, cultural trauma and political instability, the kind of phenomena that would have resulted in the violent overthrow of ruling dynasties in Chinese history. To be sure, famines (with a small ‘f”) did occur regularly in China but they are localized events with limited impact on the rest of the population. Indeed, there were reported famines caused by floods and drought during that time period which coincided with but had nothing to do with the Great Leap Forward. Liu took advantage of those natural disasters to depose Mao as President of China in 1959. Other than those localized famines, a ‘Great Famine’ of the kind imagined by Western propagandists and their Chinese collaborators 3-4 decades later in the 80s and 90s simply didn’t happen in China, as reported by Western intelligence agencies, KMT agents, foreign journalists, Soviet advisers, Third World leaders, etc. during the Great Leap Forward. Here’s a banquet hosted by Mao in Beijing for his guests, Khrushchev and Ho, with Soong in 1959:

    [MORE]

    https://www.thatsmags.com/shanghai/post/13367/throwback-thursday-the-man-who-cooked-for-mao

    To paraphrase Mark Twain, the studies of a ‘Great Famine’ are greatly exaggerated.

  138. @Roger

    You’re right, Bro. Clerical error. Nonetheless, the idea that every single Chinese is wealthy is clearly satire.

  139. Rahan says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    You could be right, but the data is there, plus anecdotal feedback of people reporting meeting lots of young middle class evangelicals in the cities.

  140. @antibeast

    I appreciate the effort you put into your answer, and was impressed The Man himself commented.

    The irony is if China tossed out the CCP tomorrow they’d be a much more dangerous competitor (in a sense they already are with the unofficial adoption of capitalism.)

    I don’t believe the West is “lying” about the Great Famine as there’s no incentive. The last President to use the term “Red China” was JFK. (((Controlled))) as it is now, our federal mafia led by a corrupt Pretendsident is scarcely better than a communist regime.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
    , @antibeast
  141. @Ron Unz

    I have the book and I noted how the author misuses false data in a way that is par for the course on this topic. The first thing which one needs to try clarify here is just what exactly is known about the mortality rates in China and how does it compare with data for other countries. With regards to the piece of Czarist Russia that formed the USSR up until 1939 we have the data given by Frank Lorimer:

    [MORE]

    Year_____Deaths per 1000
    1899_____33.4
    1900_____32.3
    1901_____33.6
    1902_____33.1
    1903_____31.1
    1904_____31.1
    1905_____33.2
    1906_____31.6
    1907_____30.2
    1908_____30.2
    1909_____31.6
    1910_____33.3
    1911_____29.2
    1912_____28.7
    1913_____30.9
    — The Population of the Soviet Union

    You can find some books which give the number 30,2 for 1913 instead of Lorimer’s 30.9. That has to do with the 11 other provinces which broke away from the USSR after 1917. Mortality was actually higher in the main Russian part of the Czarist Empire than in Finland, Poland or the Baltic.

    For another comparison, some select years of the United States can be noted:

    1913_____13.8
    1915_____13.2
    1940_____10.8
    1950_____9,6
    1951_____9.7
    1952_____9.6
    1953_____9.6
    1954_____9.2
    1955_____9.3
    1956_____9.4
    1957_____9.6

    Those numbers come from Geiger & Inkeles, Soviet Society: A Book of Readings.

    Now with China the first printed source to give claims of mortality rates for the years following the revolutionary victory was the government itself. In the Statistical Yearbook of China 1986 we get the following list of alleged mortality rates per thousand annually:

    1949_____20.00
    1950_____18.00
    1951_____17.80
    1952_____17.00
    1953_____14.00
    1954_____13.18
    1955_____12.28
    1956_____11.40
    1957_____10.80
    1958_____11.98
    1959_____14.59
    1960_____25.43
    1961_____14.24
    1962_____10.02
    1963_____10.04

    These are huge underestimates. There’s no way that Chinese mortality could be as low 20/1000 in 1949 or 10.8/1000 in 1957. Judith Banister, China’s Changing Population, devised a new table in response to this:

    1949_____38
    1950_____35
    1951_____32
    1952_____29
    1953_____25.77
    1954_____24.20
    1955_____22.33
    1956_____20.11
    1957_____18.12
    1958_____20.65
    1959_____22.06
    1960_____44.60
    1961_____23.01
    1962_____14.02
    1963_____13.81

    Banister’s numbers are more realistic, while still conforming to the general pattern laid out in the official statistics. Both Banister and the government statistics show a remarkable drop in mortality attained by the revolutionary government in the years 1949-57. Banister is honest enough to credit the government for achieving this. Then as the Great Leap Forward was launched the statistics (both versions) show a rise in mortality which nonetheless remains clearly below the prerevolutionary mortality rates until 1960, when it spikes up sharply. By 1960 the party was already admitting that a lot of failures had occurred in the Great Leap Forward and was backing off of the more dramatic claims. So one has to wonder what was special about 1960 that would lead to such a spike in mortality.

    Roderick MacFarquhar has addressed this:

    “The most serious problem in 1960 was drought which in the spring and summer affected 600 million mou… Not surprisingly in view of the drought, most of the flooding had been due to the typhoons, more of which had hit the Chinese mainland than in any of the previous 50 years, 11 between June and October, and each typhoon had lasted longer than usual, averaging ten hours, the longest stretching to 20. Moreover, nature had played an additional trick. The typhoon did not strike north-westwards as usual, but northwards. This added to their impact because it meant there were no high mountains to ward them off, and that less rain reached the rest of the country. In the aftermath of the drought and floods came insect pests and plant diseases.”
    — The Great Leap Forward, Volume 2 of The Origins of the Cultural Revolution, p. 322.

    So in the most objective sense we can say that the Great Leap Forward was a reckless project which was damaging to Chinese agriculture, but that the rise in mortality was well short of prerevolutionary death rates except in 1960 when a major natural disaster that had no direct connection with the Chinese government occurred. No the question is how do we assess what was the actual mortality to be ascribed to this chain of events.

    What you should notice right away about liars like Jung Chang, Yang Jisheng et al is that they freely allow themselves to cite mortality numbers from inconsistent sources. If you use the official Chinese statistics which I gave above then these numbers imply that 3,36 million more people died in 1960 than if the mortality rate had remained what it was in 1949. At the same time the official table implies that about 15 million more died in 1958-61 than if mortality had remained at the level of 1957. Banister’s figures would imply 4.35 and 25 million respectively. But obviously one can only say that mortality in 1958 was higher than in 1957, not 1949. Actually, if you used the 1957 mortality rate for China as a benchmark for deciding what constitutes a famine then every single year on record for both prerevolutionary China as well Czarist Russia would be judged as a year of famine.

    However liars like Chang and Jisheng go beyond that. They actually use the numbers from the Statistical Yearbook where it is convenient, then jump to other sources where that pays off better.

    On pp. 408-8 Jisheng gives us alleged death rates which clearly come from the Statistical Yearbook. He uses them to deduce a “normal death rate” of 1.047 percent. But Banister makes it clear that a more realistic estimate for mortality as it was attained in 1957 was 18.12 per thousand. Moreover, Banister acknowledges that this was the result of an unprecedented drop in mortality attained by Mau in the period 1949-57. If one were to demand of Nicholas II that he should have attained a mortality rate of 1.047 percent. By such standards 2/3 of all the deaths in Czarist Russia in the years 1899-1913 would be “artificial Holodomor” deaths since the mortality rate for 1913 was 30.9 per thousand.

    But at least if Jisheng stuck to using the mortality as the Statistical Yearbook presents it then he would have claimed that the death rate for 1960 was 25.43/1000. But no instead he now jumps over to the more realistic figures which (as per Banister) place it in the 40s. But obviously if you take an artificially lowered mortality estimate for 1957, such as the 10.8 given in the Yearbook, and you combine with more realistic figures for 1960 and thereabouts, such as the 44.7 which Banister assigns to that year, then you will produce a fantastically inflated estimate. Hence the 40 million garbage which we hear about.

    • Thanks: antibeast
  142. @d dan

    Yeah many people don’t know how highly editorialized Wikipedia is. And it is indeed biased. But people believe in the “free internet” garbage. I have read things in Wikipedia that I know are flat out wrong. That’s not to say everything is false though… But most people don’t realize it is not always reliable.

  143. @Sick of Orcs

    I couldn’t care less about Mao… The point is you cannot refute the hypocrisy in judgement. The US and western followers demonize anything they can’t control. Great Leap Forward – caused by bad agriculture policy. The Dust Bowl was a result of bad agriculture policy. China was poorer and much more densely crowded than the US – which intensified any issue. So if the Great Leap Forward was murder – the Dust Bowl was murder too. Think critically… Captain America is a comic book.
    If Mao was a murderer because of the Cultural Revolution – then the US gov are murderers for all that was done to non-whites during the same era. You should use equal balances when you make measurements.

    • Agree: Hughes
    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  144. @Realist

    Well there is always Iceland…
    But hey – blame those who imported non whites basically since the inception of the US in one shape or form…
    But being the same race didn’t stop Europe from fighting each other for centuries. The Austro Hungarian Empire had much ethnic tension even though everyone was white.

    • Replies: @Realist
  145. Yee says:

    Sick of Orcs,

    “I don’t believe the West is “lying” about the Great Famine as there’s no incentive.”

    No incentive?

    Mass-murderer Hitler, mass-murderer Stalin, mass-murderer Mao

    3 narratives that not allowed to be chanllenged in the world ruled by the West.

    A new round of narrative is being pushed by the West – genocide of the Uyghurs, complete with reports/cameras/books…

    • Troll: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  146. usNthem says:
    @Anon

    Well at least we’re encouraged to be proud of our gays, trannies and joggers – you know, the future of America.

  147. China is a fascist country which is the more successful cousin of communism. Wherein private business is allowed to exist and is controlled by the government.
    What they hide is the poverty in the rural areas. Not all Chinese have healthcare. If you get sick and are rural you have only two choices.
    1. get no care and die
    2. get care and turn over everything you own to the state.
    My old Chinese landlord who had kids born in USA went to rural China said to me “I know it sounds gross but if they find a rat they will eat it.”
    Everything you hear about them is theater.
    Another guy who was living over there said “They are too afraid to say anything about the regime.”
    I asked him “Do they hate Trump?” He said “No they admire him because he actually stands up for his country.”

    Mao was a mentally ill pervert. Never bathed, never brushed his teeth for decades and was having sex with multiple young girls.

    • Disagree: antibeast
  148. Great article!

    Finally a western current affairs writer who tries to understand China in its own terms, and not limited to a mish mash of Western ideas like “communist, capitalist, socialist, fascist, free market, central planning” etc. Those guys will never understand China, much less adapt to it.

    Kudos to you, sir. I shall be looking out for more of your articles in future.

  149. @Anon

    People who are proud of their race and country stay, and make it a better place. Those who are not proud of their race and culture have given up on themselves, and want to move to YOUR country.

  150. @American Citizen

    I recall growing up in the 80’s and 90’s when we were all told in school that all the people living in China and Russia were all secretly aghast at their governmental system and really really wanted to be just like America.

    I recall growing up and being told if I wanted to live to hide under the desk and to put my head between my knees if the Commie’s dropped the bomb.

    I was also told growing up that “marijuana” is only for bad people and turns people into addicts and criminals. Today, I walk outside and there are legal government approved “marijuana dispensaries” every 3rd street corner.

    I take a deep breath of the second hand pot in the air and think……………we’ve ALL been duped and lied to.

  151. @Malla

    Hi Malla,

    While your analysis, from a Darwinian perspective is true, we have to accept that one’s prosperity depends on the prosperity of others. That the Westerners allowed third world countries to copy the formula of their success is not such a bad thing considering the expanded trade between the developed and developing worlds and the use of the brains of the third world to enhance the research and development in the developed world. Just look at how many Indians and Chinese are involved in the hi tech industries of the West.

    The problem with Western countries is that their so called ‘ liberal democratic’ system of governance has become totally oligarchic without a proper system of checks and balances to keep the unbridled pursuit of profit from damaging the very fabric of society. Under National Socialism or the much derided Italian Fascism, such a scenario of deindustrialisation would have never happened, because in both cases the industrialists and the financiers would have been under the thumb of the political leaders as the latest power struggle between the CCP and Jack Ma proved to the Chinese oligarchs who is boss. Meanwhile, the Western societies are continuously falling under the spell of the Jewish dominated zeitgeist that constantly subordinates the economy to the greed of finance while trashing nationalism by attacking the values of family, community, and core traditions that give every nation its unique character using a wide range of tools from crucifying the nuclear traditional family to unrestrained immigration.

  152. TKK says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Americans have been so beaten down and demoralized by our overlords that many worship a dog eating, ravenously capitalistic, individual crushing automaton society that the Chinese themselves cannot stand.

    The fact….FACT…that none of them could so much as whisper any criticism of Winnie the Pooh (Xi Jinping) on a site like this goes right over their heads or is conveniently ignored.

    Who knew Anglin was a cuck beta male for a Chinese man? I am disappointed but not surprised.

    • Replies: @Cowboy
  153. TKK says:
    @American Citizen

    Again showing oceans of ignorance.

    Did you happen to visit China or Russia in the 80s or 90s?

    Do you remember America in the 80s or 90s?

    We were thriving. Pre NAFTA, Pre AA madness, Pre Anit White, Pre Globalism!

    A white working class male could support his family on a manufacturing job, buy a home, have 2 cars and leisure time. There was actual segregation and people did not mind it. Gays were still in the closet and being a drag queen was a disgrace.

    It was not nirvana, as life is work, but compared to China and Russia in those times?

    Paradise.

  154. @Sick of Orcs

    I would be extremely interested to hear your views on China, AFTER you have visited the place. I have been there many times, as I have of the US. And what I can tell you is that American views on China are highly skewed.

    Go on, chat with people on the streets, visit the wet markets, talk to a policeman. See if what you believe no is really true.

    I hope you have the courage to do that.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  155. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    I don’t believe the West is “lying” about the Great Famine as there’s no incentive.

    The West did have a strong incentive to turn Mao into a monster while doing everything they can to remake Hirohito into a saint. That was the Cold War. If there is anyone who qualifies as one of the ‘worst mass murderers in world history’, that would be Hirohito whom the West remade into a pacifist saint interested only in marine biology. Australia wanted to try Hirohito for his war crimes and so did the Western POWs who survived the death camps run by the Imperial Japanese Army during WWII. US servicemen who endured the ordeal as slave labor filed lawsuits against Japan in US courts which refused to hear their case. To this day, Japan has no apologized nor paid compensation to the Western POWs who became victims of the war crimes committed by the Imperial Japanese Army whose Commander-in-Chief was none other than the Showa Emperor Hirohito. Since the Cold War is over, there is no reason why the West should continue ‘white-washing’ Hirohito’s crimes while constantly evangelizing everyone in the world about the war crimes of the German Nazis in the European Holocaust.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  156. @Anon

    “Salvation is from the Jews.”

    I’m no Bible studies expert nor can I comment on the translation from the original language but I don’t see a problem with this. It doesn’t state that “salvation is by the Jews” but rather “from”, i.e. to be saved from them not by them. Someone who actually knows the original language this was written in could comment.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  157. @anonymous

    The way I understand it is that communism is a system where the power ultimately resides with the working people (perhaps not ideal but that’s what it is), the workers and farmers (and I wouldn’t exclude the self-employed small business people), and works for the benefit of those working people. I know Leon Trotsky is much maligned here but his idea of The Permanent Revolution was to safeguard that power against usurpation by any party functionaries to create The New Class (i.e. ruling class) that Milovan Djilas warned about, which has happened in all so-called “communist” countries, and has nothing to do with the Cultural Marxism causing disruption, trouble and change for the sake of it and to promote instability and chaos as per the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  158. Miro23 says:

    There was this question on Quora:

    Why do so many Chinese people want to immigrate to other countries?

    The top answer was this one – which seems to be better lifestyle, less pressure and more opportunity to enjoy corruptly gained wealth.

    Li Yu Tong
    Living in China ever since I was born

    Answered May 6, 2017

    Proportional wise, the relative number might not be “many”.
    Absolute number wise, it is many.

    Some reasons:

    1. People are more wealthier and enjoyed more freedom – a little bit sarcasm – so they want to change another living place.

    2. More education choices for kids – many people complained that the entry level education in China (especially in big cities like Beijing, Shanghai and provinces with huge number of students like Shandong, Jiangsu, Henan, Hubei etc. ) are too much a burden for kids, and they want to seek easier path for their children. For example, it was very normal for us to keep studying till 10–11pm every night even for elementary school pupils, I only have half day “month-end” when I was in my 6th–9th grade. This might be crazy for western kids, but it is very normal here in China. This reason is almost the most important reason from the guys I know who immigrant overseas.

    3. Better environment with fresher air and brighter sky – this is sad…

    4. Money laundry – Yes… Many officials and business men send their kids and families overseas so that they can transfer their money from corruption or grey business to a “safe” place – Canada and Australia are famous for this in China…

    5. Business investment and market shift – Though China is still one of the most important engines of the world economy, many industries can get better profit in other countries. So many Chinese businessmen invest in other countries to set up factories/branches etc. Immigration can bring much convenience for this kind of transfer as Chinese currency control is very strict.

    6. others

  159. @Anon

    Thank you for the video. I haven’t seen much reporting on this event. Maybe there has been, but I also don’t really follow the news…

  160. cranc says:

    It seems a given that the Chinese system of the past 50 years (however we label it) has greatly outperformed the West in terms of material production and distribution.

    Is that the sole metric of assessing the wealth of a society though ?

    I have not been to China, but from what I read and from stories I hear from friends and relatives who live there, it does not seem like a societal system that I would spend time promoting.
    Where lies China in the overall development of humankind ?
    What are the spiritual contributions coming from the system created there ?

    ‘China is the most futuristic country on Earth’

    Maybe so, but why assume that this is a good thing (assuming that you don’t jizz off to pictures of fighter jets) ?

    China, as exemplar of a mechanistic, materialist, technologised society will go the way of everyone else when the resource crunch really kicks in mid century. Then we will make assessments of all countries and cultures based upon a much wider and deeper set of critieria.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  161. Seraphim says:
    @Rahan

    I was on a trip to China few months before the pandemic. I passed by a number of Churches, and big ones at that in new settlements.

    • Thanks: Rahan
  162. JM says:
    @Anon

    You a disciple of An Lu Ang Lin?

  163. lol.

    Now we can all see why Anglin’s writing style abruptly changed so much.

    He’s a bought-and-paid-for ChiCom shill.

    • Replies: @Rahan
  164. @Anon

    Not one magic negro, wetback, LGBTiQPWXYZ rainbow flag, or BLM worshiping asshat.
    This country is pure racist. I love it.

  165. JM says:
    @Joe Levantine

    I don’t know about all your suggestions, but I like this very much…turn an apparent negative into a big – mutual – positive:

    “I look forward to your analysis of how the beleaguered White race could make good use of the rise of China to bolster White survivalism against the most vicious and devious anti White assault that history has ever witnessed.”

    • Replies: @anon
  166. @Yee

    I have relatives in China, both from my mom’s side and from my brother-in-law’s parents.

    In fact, my brother-in-law’s dad was a PLA soldier, a true believer…

    And even he admitted they starved during the Mao era. It got so bad that in some villages, the people ate other people’s infants, because they couldn’t bear to eat their own.

    As for my mom’s relatives, she said they would dry food stuffs (meat), pack them into tins, and ship them over to their relatives in China to sustain them. Which is why whenever my mom and my aunts visit these relatives in China (Swatow), they are treated VERY well, because of the sheer gratitude.

    How’s that for witness accounts?

    • Troll: antibeast
  167. JM says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Quite a legend that MacKenzie King. had cause to research some of his Good Works recently. We in Australia used to enjoy politicians of his calibre. We once had our own Commonwealth Bank set up by our own patriotic socialists (no, it’s not – wasn’t – an oxymoron) in the 20’s. As a boy I had enormous fraternal respect for the Canadians; we had many connections.

  168. anon[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    17 percent of Chinese live in poverty. That’s 237 million or the entire U.S. population.

    Check your sources, man. The last time our population was 237 million was . . . 1985.
    We now number 332 million.

    Is your data on the Chinese poverty rate also from 1985? Should update that data set.

    Might be drawing the wrong picture, is all I’m saying.

  169. Thanks. I’ve long this but was unable to explain it so easily. This is a good description of what I see as I deal with Chinese in China.

  170. anon[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @JM

    Fun Fact.

    China is not anti-America, not anti-white, not anti-anyone.

    Did you know that they (the Chinese) went out of their way to invite the Unites States into the AIIB (Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank) mechanism, and into the BRI (Belt and Road Initiative)?

    It’s true. Research it. But our geniuses in Washington not only gave them the finger, but forbade our vassal Japan from joining.

    Brilliant strategy.

    • Replies: @JM
    , @denk
  171. @littlereddot

    Will the Tiananmen Square Tank Guy be available for autograph signing?

    In communist countries you see what is allowed to be seen.

    A visit is not necessary in the intarwebs age.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
  172. @antibeast

    No one but grubers believes the U.S. government is infallible, but a white-washing of hirohito and reports on the Chinese Famine are separated by 14 years.

    Mao has been exposed as a sex-crazed drug addict who freely murdered fellow communists who threatened his power.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  173. The author slags communism as a failure, however communism was NEVER allowed to work as per the Americunts. China is Communist-get used to it.

  174. anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:
    @Commentator Mike

    has nothing to do with the Cultural Marxism

    Yes, which is why the term “Cultural Marxism” is totally misleading.

  175. @showmethereal

    The US and western followers demonize anything they can’t control.

    And you think these are the only governments to ever use propaganda?

    Your efforts to equivocate faulty US agricultural policies of the 1930s with a murderous regime led by a psychopath are a bit of a stretch.

    You should use equal balances when you make measurements

    Real life is a lot messier and more complex than that. Fair measurements mean unequal results.

    Even the bullshitters have given up on “equality” and now seek “equity,” demanding equal outcomes rewarding the weak and incompetent.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  176. Fred777 says:
    @Rahan

    “I mean the Western half of the EU is literally telling the East over the last 3-4 days ‘either you teach double anal in schools or leave the Union’. It’s come to that. So we’ll see.“

    See you later Union.

  177. @cranc

    When someone has just emerged from famine, all they want to do for the first few days is to eat. China has just emerged from a dark time in their history where they were dirt poor, it is not a surprise all they want to do is to is to make some money and live a comfortable life.

    Nobody knows where China will head in the next century, but I see evidence that they will slowly and quietly exit their Communist/Marxist/Leninist leanings. And before any American has an orgasm and assumes that China will take up Western style Capitalism, no, it is appears that they are going back to their Confucian roots. Look and you will see ample evidence.

    Where lies China in the overall development of humankind ?
    What are the spiritual contributions coming from the system created there

    I won’t care to predict. But I will be happy if they don’t impose their own ideals on me, and regime change me if I dont ape them. As for democracy bombs, I am happy that they have not fired a bullet in anger for 40 years.

    If we talk about spiritual development, then the only civilisation who is fit to be studied are the Indians. Certainly not a civilisation that spent the last 500 years genociding then occupying whole continents. And after that all, deride the Chinese for being spiritually backward.

    • Replies: @cranc
  178. JNDillard says:

    “Xi cites Karl Marx when he explains that the totality of relations of social production “constitute the economic structure of society, the real foundation, on which arises the legal and political superstructure and to which correspond definite forms of social consciousness.” http://www.china.org.cn/opinion/2014-11/18/content_34083741_2.htm

    Anyone, like this author, who tries to dress up China as anything other than a communist country which primary allegiances to Marx just isn’t worth reading. China has indeed rehabilitated Marx and communism, and continues to do so.

  179. “The economic prosperity that China has achieved is truly amazing, especially in infrastructure! I encourage people to visit and see for themselves.”

    Elon Musk and his ilk never loved America but only money and have been milking this great country for all its worth to move on to greener pastures.

  180. “China is the most futuristic country on earth. While American smart meters are turning off the air-conditioning in 100 degree weather in Texas and New York is sending notices to turn off the microwave so the power doesn’t go out, everyone in China is rich and living in luxury.”

    There is not and never has been a country in existence where everyone is rich and living in luxury. There never is going to be one, unless Star Trek becomes reality. This is not a genuine article. This is Chinese state propaganda. This article was written by someone working for the Chinese state. Andrew/Godfree is not a real person. When I saw the title of the post I thought it was meant to be sarcastic.

    Is Unz actually too stupid to see how he’s repeatedly being hoodwinked by this incredibly clumsy and obvious propaganda agent, or is he himself an agent of China? Because there are no other reasons to post these. They have no intellectual value whatsoever. It’s not like they’re some kind of alternate opinions on China. They’re just incredibly phoney state propaganda from a goverment agent posing as a Fellow White Person (or actually two). And the commenters are just going along with it as if it were a serious article meriting serious discussion. Am I the only one who sees how fucking stupid this is?

  181. JM says:
    @anon

    That’s new to me…and I follow this kind of thing.

  182. antibeast says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Mao was no saint but he ain’t no ‘genocidal mass-murderer’ unlike Hirohito whom the US government not only protected from war crimes prosecution but also promoted into a saint.

    This is my last reply to you on this topic. Have a good day!

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  183. Thanks for a good review, AA.

    It’s humorous (but not really) to see the multiple postings by the teeth-gnashers weeping and wailing as the judeo-freemason ZUKUS sun sets …
    And it could have been different … cooperation not bombing for “Israel”, dirty tricks, murder, looting, threats, occupations, deceit, theft …

    It’s tempting to think that it could still be different, change of course, new policies, new leadership (it requires leadership, not “democracy”) but in my humble opinion this is no longer possible for the west; there must be a complete take-down of judeo-masonry.

    The financial warmongering parasite must be given the coup de grace.
    Looking to China/Russia/Iran to take to heart the lesson of what the Parasite has done to a once prosperous West and make policy accordingly.
    99+% of the entire world will rejoice.

  184. Cowboy says:
    @TKK

    It is curious how the rabid nationalist Zoollinnials running around here have a fetish for the strongman. I’m thinking one of the causes is the dysphoria of living their lives without their helicopter mommy making everything ok and no male influence while growing up, whether because the male in the house was a cuck or absent. Apparently we have two generations of cuck males begging for a beating from a daddy figure they never had.

  185. So sick of Sick of Orcs

    I thought there was a time limit on the number of posts you are allowed on this site.

  186. BorisMay says:
    @RedpilledAF

    Sorry to disappoint you but the Rothschild Bank funded Chairman Mao when he was just some provincial rebel army leader.
    The Rothschilds, the Warburgs and numerous parasitic families have already married in to the ruling Lee family, who are the real controllers of China.
    The current political leaders, just like Biden and Johnson, are puppets.

    • Thanks: RedpilledAF
  187. @follyofwar

    “EVERYONE” is hyperbole, of course, but there is no denying that China has made very great strides in raising the overall standard of living for its people, particularly when one considers from what point they began fifty years ago.

    • Replies: @profnasty
  188. “It must be nice to live in a country where your leaders encourage you to be proud of your race and history.”

    Are we supposed to be proud of displacing and lying to the Native Americans while we stole their land?
    Are we supposed to be proud that half our nation wanted to continue the institution of slavery and we had to fight a war to free the slaves?
    Are we supposed to be proud of Jim Crow laws and our racial arrogance and bigotry?
    Are we supposed to be proud that we dropped atom bombs on Nagaski and Hiroshima?
    Are we supposed to be proud that we napalmed Vietnam, Cambodia and etc?
    Are we supposed to be proud that we destroyed Iraq based on lies and sick revenge?
    Are we su0pposed to be proud that an oligarchy of neocon warmongers rule our nation?
    Are we supposed to be proud that corporations and elites set our narrative and buy our Congress like they are paid whore with lobbyist money?

    Race? Proud of my race? White people in the USA have destroyed us. They have shipped our jobs overseas. They have decimated cities like Detroit. They have poisoned our underclass with opioids knowingly for profit. Their CIA has killed JFK and lied about 9/11 and committed atrocities through their MKULTRA programs. White men in power have let the military-industrial complex run wild bombing the earth for hegemony and profit.

    White men have allowed our cities to become cesspools of crime and poverty. White men and their corporations have tried to hurt workers for their own profit any way they could. They would break unions, they would fight for the lowest wages and health care all so the fat white cats at the top could become billionaires. They deny the nation universal health care something almost every developed nation on earth has. If your child gets leukemia you could lose your home or go bankrupt with medical bills which are the number one and two reasons for foreclosure and bankruptcy.

    I am ashamed of my country and my race.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @HeebHunter
    , @Ber
    , @FrauHausMaus
  189. @Godfree Roberts

    I found myself agreeing with an earlier comment with which you’d also agreed, and now I find myself agreeing with you again while complementing you on the reasonable (nothing of the propagandist) style in which you phrased your reply. Kudos, sir!

  190. Anon[871] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Mulga, your comments run the borderline of fantasy, hallucinations and sheer stupidity. What is even more comical is that you live not in China but in Australia.

    You have to stop eating road kill, bush meat and seaside worms. The toxins in your meals have invaded your tiny brain.

    Its not wonder you call yourself Mumblebrain. From the Mumble comes the Bumble and then the Stumble. If Chinks are supposed to be smart what happened to you.

    God, you are as dumb as fuck !

    • Agree: TKK
    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  191. @Curmudgeon

    The whole ballgame in a nutshell: nationalize the Fed, confiscate fortunes founded and growing exponentially using non-productive fraudulent financial techniques, then let the chips fall where they may. Not likely to happen, if course, but it’s good to know what should have and still should be done if there is to be any hope of creating a semblace of meritocracy when the dust has settled.

  192. Yee says:

    The Wobbly Guy,

    “I have relatives in China, both from my mom’s side and from my brother-in-law’s parents”

    Do any of your relatives personally know someone who starved to death in 1958-1960?

    Food shortage of course existed, the whole country was on tight ration. In fact, precisely because of the whole country was on ration, I don’t think it’s possible for the 40 millions death.

    Go and ask your relatives. Note that you ask for PERSONALLY know someone. Not what they read, heard, watched on CNN.

  193. Z-man says:
    @utu

    And now the geniuses in Washington are sending the Nationalist Chinese the latest F 16’s with advanced electronics. Just how long will it take the Red Chinese to get their hands on one of them and reverse engineer it? Not long.

  194. Anon[871] • Disclaimer says:

    All this hype about China ! I am not in the least concerned.

    First: China supposedly has all these loans to countries here and there. If they default, China will own the country’s assets. Really ? Many of those countries are now waking up to the grift. What will happen happen if just one defaults and kicks out all the Chinks ? Will China invade that country ? Even the dumbest loan shark knows he must keep his marks in line for even the smallest amount because if one rips him off and gets away with it, the rest will follow suit. This scheme of China is going to explode in it’s face in a nasty and unexpected way.

    Second: China’s financial status is dependent on the west buying their cheap 25c geegaws for $5. What happens if their exports are cut off. What happens if the major powers in the West default on all their Chinese bonds etc / China will be truly screwed.

    Third: For all their military posturing with their billion or so citizens, people need to remember that the rest of the world has 5 times the population of China. Anyone who thinks the planet is going to allow itself to be dominated by China must be daft.

    Fourth: China cannot project its military power to the US or Europe. The logistical problems would be insurmountable. Can anyone imagine the Chinese military doing Normandy thing at LA or San Francisco, the wild west of the US. Their forces would be chopped up and devoured. In addition, the west has a lot more experience in worldwide conventional war than the Chink generals. These guys are so incompetent that the US, in the war with Korea drubbed the communist forces even with having to supply UN troops accross the Pacific. The Chinese generals, with a supply line from depots on the NK border, and supply chains by road, were so useless that Communist troops were soon starving. Word has it that Mao executed a lot of them for the idiots they were. If China decides to nuke the US, then its no win because they will get smoked too. These people are so inept that they tried to teach the Vietnamese “a lesson” and got kicked out after a few months by second rate Viet Militia.

    Fifth: China will no doubt be used as a foil for the US, if that. The Jews are not going to let the US, their patron, fall off the game board. The Tribe knows that an uncontrolled China may mean no more Israel. To that end, they already have Xi and his mob under control. Lets not fool ourselves, the Jews are already in control and Xi cannot wipe his arse with his left hand unless he asks permission.

    So, China running things ? I dont think so ! All this posturing with Jets flying in arrow formations has to be recognized as a show of bravado and cheap propaganda, like their goods. To the Chinese dreamers on this site, all of whom reside OUTSIDE China because they know how things are going to go down, I say this, get your heads out of the clouds. China is a costumed dancer on stilts with one of the wooden legs half eaten by termites. One good push and its back to starvation !

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @denk
  195. profnasty says:
    @Bert

    Maybe too much emphasis on Eddie.
    I just watched him talk with Letterman on video. He came across as a moribund weasel.


  196. TKK says:

    How a gun-happy nation spends its #FourthofJuly weekend pic.twitter.com/VZBeGIQ9XO— China Xinhua News (@XHNews) July 6, 2021

    • Replies: @TKK
  197. Che Guava says:

    Mods, please remove the earlier post, I did not mean to hit the post key.

    Pre-cabapitalism ,

    I object to Andrew”s expkanation of 共産党、it is not correct.

    Back when my workpiace had civiliized custom of someone making a speech after lunch,

    My Chinese friend’s speech was uery interesting.

    all of the words,. including 資本主義、capitalism, 社会主義, socialism, and 共産主義、communist were all Japan-coined.

  198. profnasty says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Yes, Japanese war crimes have been glossed over.
    As have American war crimes.
    German war crimes, mostly false, echo through society like a screaming banshee.
    Aihhoooo!!!!

  199. Yee says:

    R.G. Camara,

    “lol. U mad, commie”

    I’m quite sure I’m not… Just distrust narratives pushed by the West. Especially while I’m watching their latest “genocide of the Uyghurs” performance.

    60 years from now, perhaps your grandchild would show reports/books/videos to my grandchild to prove that genocide of the Uyghurs really did happen, just like we’re doing here right now…

    I hope the kid would have the sense to ask me before believing lies of the West.

  200. “But I will say: China is not a communist country, and the so-called “Chinese Communist Party” is not a communist party.” – danged right, AA!
    And to add more data to the mix – http://crushlimbraw.blogspot.com/2021/07/china-and-russia-today-are-less.html?m=0 – our foreign overlords control everything which defines what our zombies are fed daily! This will stop soon – the only question being at what cost?

  201. @Sick of Orcs

    “Unlike a subject in red china, a US citizen is free to leave.”

    Oh? De jure, perhaps, but not de facto, not for a year or so since the “pandemic” erupted and lockdown controls implemented. My understanding from afar (don’t live in USA, haven’t been there in 23 years) is that “leaving” (as in emigrating) becomes more problematic wth every passing year. It’s not necessary to forbid it; simply make it impractical and very difficult.

  202. @antibeast

    Have a good day!

    For you the same. –SoO

  203. antibeast says:
    @Z-man

    The F-16s are obsolete junk.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  204. anon[316] • Disclaimer says:

    Elon Musk is not joking. I recently stumbled across this channel on YouTube and was astounded by China’s modernity, not just in the big coastal cities but in many small inland cities that no one’s ever heard of. Everything seems so clean and modern:

    https://www.youtube.com/c/WalkEast/videos

    In contrast, everything in America seems to be built in the 1970’s. Compared to cities in Europe and Asia, our cities are run down, crime ridden and decrepit, woefully lacking in infrastructure.

    However, there is a down side to all the modernization in China. I think when people are cut off too rapidly from their past, they lose their sense of history and tradition and eventually, their soul. The modern Chinese worship wealth, status and all things Western, because of rapid modernization. Communism wipes away their tradition and forbids all things spiritual, which is good in some ways but it also means they lack things like tradition and religion to anchor and unite them.

    Christianity has its problems but fundamentally, it drills into us the concept of “personal sin” which serves as our personal boundaries. After centuries of Christianity, Western people are governed intrinsically by “thou shalt not lie cheat steal kill” which created Western Protestant societies that are largely high trust. The only truly free society is one built on integrity. Integrity is what you need to build trust. Without trust, there can be no good society. Most societies outside Western Protestant societies lack this key ingredient, which is why no matter how modern they are, they are fundamentally soulless, dog-eat-dog and unpleasant places to live where people think nothing of cheating lying stealing to get ahead.

    Sadly however, integrity is also our downfall. Honest whites see themselves as individuals, and are as such exploited by dishonest minority groups who work together as a group and take over our society. The dishonest always makes the honest look stupid by comparison. America is no longer a Protestant country. It has been Jewish since the 1970’s. Jew run societies are corrupt hellholes because Jews justify all their unscrupulousness, dishonesty, ruthlessness and pleasure seeking with the Holocaust and 2,000 year “oppression”, and they are turning our society upside down through CRT and academia/media/Big Tech censorship.

    It remains to be seen which came first, modernity or integrity. Western protestant societies were the first to modernize because people could trust one another and worked together for the advancement of their societies. But it is also possible once a society modernizes, people’s behavior also change as they are no longer plagued by hunger and poverty, and they become more civilized and trusting of one another. For China’s sake and the for the sake of world development, I hope that is true. However, I hope this increased trust and honesty among themselves along with their higher IQ will help them steer clear of the pitfalls of the West, like our trusting nature that allowed a minority group to take over and run our societies to the ground through lies like “Diversity is Strength”. The truth is, Diversity Divides. Trust can only come from homogeneous societies.

  205. antibeast says:
    @Anon

    China’s financial status is dependent on the west buying their cheap 25c geegaws for $5. What happens if their exports are cut off. What happens if the major powers in the West default on all their Chinese bonds, etc. China will be truly screwed.

    China stopped piling up US$ in 2014 when the PBoC decided to invest its US$ in FIXED assets such as those in BRI countries. And no, China’s financial status is independent of the West because the State-owned PBoC can and will print its own RMB to finance its own economy. In fact, China’s export dependency has shrunk to around 17% of its GDP which will go down further as its export industries get relocated to BRI countries. As for Western default on Chinese debts, that would imply the implosion of Western economies which are driven by private Capital unlike the Chinese economy which is driven by State Capital.

    China does not need the West. It’s the other way around as the pyramid scheme called ‘Capitalism’ in the West is nearing its end. And no, China is not selling trinkets to the West (those are by Western multinationals) but building infrastructure projects such as high-speed rail, 4G/5G telecommunications, nuclear power plants, etc. to the non-West.

    Any more questions?

    • Replies: @Anon
  206. @Crescent Moon

    It is true! Chines leadership pays little attention to rural areas for the moment. Their priority is foreign trade. But in time it will change. China must mechanize its agriculture. It is inevitable.

  207. TKK says:
    @TKK

    China Xinhua News is Anti-White

    Depicting the violent Americans as whites.

    Not blacks.

  208. Xi Devil says:

    I’m surprised nobody noted this: there never were, never, any communist country. Not a single one. And this fact was agreed by all of them so labeled. The USSR was the USSR, not the USCR. All of them were (or still are a few) self-called “socialist” countries, because “communism” was a far goal, it was supposed it would be reached through socialism (that kind of socialism), but definitively and absolutely, none of them were communist (it couldn’t, among and above all because of their own dogmas), the fact that after 70+ years communism remained as far as it seemed to be at the very beginning was one of many causes which prompted the Soviet collapse. Yes, they themselves use the “word” communism, because they are self-entitled as the only ones capables to reach the goal and all the lot. But never was communism, it was a “mere” to way to go there. Think about feudalism as a way to reach parliamentary democracy and you can get the picture, but obviously feudalism is not, nor actually close to, capitalist parliamentary democracy.

    In this very sense, the Communist Party of China is still as communist as it was, and as it was the CPSU, or any other of the whole zoo (including trotskysm, and the lot). They are in another stage, that’s all, and I can confirm you that each and every one of the party members, the 95 million, accept this as a dogma. Maybe they think that “communism” is far away yet, maybe not, they are a partial militaristic and somewhat democratic party -things are decided by members, but once decided, there is no way to go back or oppose the “democratically” decided.

    And the most important, in capitalist societies, true power lies in the hands of capitalist class, as we see every day when corporations, cartels and so on decided over people, in China, of course there is a capitalist class, but its political power is ZERO. It’s the party which commands and with iron hand. In fact, Stalinism is enforced in China, superrich guy who tries to derail party policies, or even suggests it, automatically out of transit or directly killed. It’s easy to do, all of them are corrupt. For instance, we can ask Jack Ma. He is currently in perpetual holidays, and we’ll see if he has an accident or he is accused, put on trial, and executed.

    And no, our Western world works exactly like that, about the elites. It’s not said for any reason that Devil is on details.

  209. cranc says:
    @littlereddot

    I will be happy if they don’t impose their own ideals on me, and regime change me if I dont ape them.

    Unfortunately, I think this is exactly what is happening.
    From the Daily Telegraph:
    ‘How did we allow the highly compromised World Health Organisation to dictate a destructive course of action, one based on China’s undoubtedly false data, that has caused untold suffering around the world particularly for the poor and vulnerable with malnutrition, infant mortality and child labour rates up in the developing world due to Covid-19 lockdowns? ‘

    https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/rita-panahi-one-day-well-see-the-real-deadly-damage-of-lockdowns/news-story/4c2f417575a436831d7775c7ff6f6576

  210. anon[316] • Disclaimer says:

    Modern architecture is by and large soulless and ugly. Jews came up with and promoted architecture like Bauhaus and brutalism (promoted heavily by Ayn Rand in her book Fountainhead) to destroy beautiful traditional Western architecture and promote ugly universalism. China worships the west too much. Many of their iconic buildings are designed by foreign architects, like the hideous CCTV tower in Beijing designed by Dutch “starchitect” Rem Koolhaas, which I consider a blight to Beijing’s skyline — brutalism on a grand scale. Tokyo, Seoul, Singapore, HK, Taiwan all have the same problem.

    Instead of blindly copying all things Western, China needs to chart a new course and revive their traditional architecture, but give it a modern twist like with modern building materials and technology. The Muslim world does this well. To date I have yet to see skyscrapers more beautiful than the Petronas Towers in KL. Some of the most beautiful bldgs in the world today are new mosques that were built in the last twenty years. The new Jeddah Tower in Saudi Arabia will be beautiful when it’s done. Europe wisely chose to rebuild with traditional architecture after WWII, which gave their people a deep sense of history and tradition and encouraged them to work together to revive their societies politically, economically and culturally. Traditional Russian architecture beautifies St. Petersburg and Moscow, even their subway is beautiful.

    Modern architecture promotes universalism and is soulless.

    • Agree: antibeast
    • Replies: @antibeast
  211. anon[925] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Do North Korea and Iran have a “liberal media”? Why does the government have to allow it?

    If the government is so “based”, why haven’t they shut it down? The simplest answer is that they don’t care at all. There’s also the possibility of fighting between ingroups.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  212. Agent76 says:

    Jun 30, 2021 How Mao Zedong Got Away With Mass Murder | Great Leap Forward

    Before China’s Cultural Revolution, Mao Zedong instituted a movement that led to one of the largest man-made famines in history: the Great Leap Forward. Instead of catapulting China into the league of civilized nations, the socialist policies Mao implemented not only killed tens of millions of people, but set China back significantly.

    Apr 6, 2021 What is Australia’s Problem with China?

    Australia continues to double down on its growing trade and political row with China. It is costing the Australian economy significantly, and backing it into a strategic corner only greater belligerence toward China and subordination to US regional ambitions will remain as options.

  213. peterike says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    MAO ASKED TO SEE ROOSEVELT IN 1945

    And probably would have, had FDR not mercifully dropped dead. FDR pushed Japan into a war because he was an ardent sinophile. He did everything he could to bait Japan into a war the U.S. had no business fighting.

    FDR and Mao are two peas in a pod. Both mass murdering psychopaths.

    • Agree: Agent76
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  214. peterike says:
    @bj0311

    Look at those pilots–all male and all one race–don’t they know “diversity is strength”?

    That’s why we’ll win!

  215. antibeast says:
    @anon

    Agree. The reason why China had to hire lots of foreign architects (both Western and Asian) was due to its lack of expertise in modern architecture when Deng started the market-oriented reforms in the 80s. But that’s changing as the post-80s generation came of age and learned to do modern architecture with a uniquely Chinese sense and sensibility. Here’s some examples of modern Chinese architecture that has emerged over the last ten years:

  216. Old Prude says:

    It doesn’t matter if we call them Chinese Communists or Chinese Fascists. The leaders are a bunch of criminal thugs who will put a boot on your neck if you are in the least bit a threat to their power.

    I can call Biden a jackass all day long and paint it on my roof, and still sleep soundly at night. I’d like to see a Chinaman do that with Xi and see what happens.

    That having been said, China’s progress on modernization is truly impressive, and our fall into madness, and the worship of degeneracy will be catastrophic. If we hadn’t allowed sixty years of mass immigration from all over the world to destroy our social capital and fracture the white population we would probably be way ahead of where we are, but here we are.

    The Chinese, under the leadership of these bureaucratic hoodlums, will have the next century as American whites squabble and imports from the rest of the world feed like parasites off what is left of the U.S.A.

  217. @Sick of Orcs

    A good number of Unzfolk seem to forget the red chinese murdered 40 million of their countrymen and purged their own traditional culture and history. (Unfortunately, 40 million is too large a number for the mind to envision.) As communism has never worked, the red rice-oids had to carbon copy the capitalist system to get anywhere.

    Radical government policies can indeed cause large scale premature deaths, no matter it was China during the GLF in the early 1960s (40 million was about 6% of the Chinese population at the time, compare it to the 60% European Jews murdered in WW2), or Russia after the “shock therapy” in the early 1990s. Under the “advise” of economists from the US, the “shock therapy” reduced the life expectancy in Russia by 5 years. However, these are not murders, unlike the 10% Irish population who died because the Great Britain deliberately exported food from Ireland and banned food import into Ireland during the “potato famine” because they thought “there were too many Irish people”. On the other hand, the Chinese eventually turned the tables, and now 1.4 billion Chinese have a longer healthy life expectancy than the US, despite with only a fraction of US’ per capita income.

    As for purging traditional culture and history, it occurred only during a short period of 10 years from 1966 to 1976. Chinese tradition and culture are now being fully restored.

    Does communism work? China is a bona fide socialist country, because
    1. National and public ownership of land and natural resources
    2. The existence of SOEs
    3. Government/politics controls capital, not the other way around like in the West.
    China has been successful in the past 40 years, because unlike the former USSR, which was rigid and dogmatic, China is pragmatic and adaptable. It adopted many elements of capitalism including the market economy. It’s a hybrid economy, unique in the world, not a carbon copy of anything.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
  218. Z-man says:
    @antibeast

    You have junk in the head.

  219. Rahan says:
    @R.G. Camara

    lol.

    Now we can all see why Anglin’s writing style abruptly changed so much.

    He’s a bought-and-paid-for ChiCom shill.

  220. @anonymous

    National Socialism will live on, in the East…

  221. @Nancy O'Brien Simpson

    1945 payback for muttmerica, the nation of subhumans!

  222. @Agent76

    There is no evidence that the famine which occurred in 1960 had any greater mortality rates than the 1936 famine which is usually credited with causing 5 million deaths in a year when the Chinese population was just under 458 million. The famine of 1936 would have added an extra 10.92 deaths per thousand onto a normal mortality rate which would have been somewhere in the lower to mid 30s. That would easily attain the level of 44.6 per thousand which Judith Banister postulated for the 1960 mortality rate. The insane claims of “tens of millions” of deaths are reached simply by presuming a “normal mortality rate” which is well below anything which China in its history had yet attained and then counting anything above that as “government famine.” It’s a completely dishonest construction.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  223. Realist says:
    @showmethereal

    But hey – blame those who imported non whites basically since the inception of the US in one shape or form…

    I most certainly do.

    But being the same race didn’t stop Europe from fighting each other for centuries. The Austro Hungarian Empire had much ethnic tension even though everyone was white.

    Yes, I agree. People in positions of power always want to retain power…regardless of ethnicity…and of course, there are always plenty of people with less cognitive ability willing to obey.

  224. SafeNow says:

    China gave the fighter-jet message, but China has also given an opposite signal that is important to note. China has been playing at bumper-boats, building huge (12,000 tons!) “coast guard cutters” that can establish a “presence” by, if necessary, ramming and shouldering. These are not warships.The worst-case scenario is an exchange of small-arms fire. Similarly, merchant vessels are built with double hulls and flat sides. Regrettably, the U.S. response was to ignore the bumper-boats signal, and deploy a carrier group. This spends military-budget money, which is a necessity. But still, the risk is WWIII resulting from some rocky islands in the Western Pacific.

  225. anonymous[125] • Disclaimer says:

    The same people who tell us “Diversity is Strength” are also the keenest in promoting American hegemony: one country to rule them all, through a supposed “rules based international order”, i.e. rules defined by a small group of very special people, (((who))) excel in talking out of both sides of their mouths. Integrity eludes them.

    Orwell warned us about lies of the elites: War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength, Freedom is Slavery. Now you can add Diversity is Strength.

    Culturally and ethnically homogeneous countries are the only ones that can be stable and successful in the long run. Multicultural societies will all eventually implode as trust is increasingly eroded and they turn into dog-eat-dog societies. The West is living off success built by a largely homogeneous past. The new multicultural West faces a slow but certain decline and demise. Our future is one that resembles Brazil, where the 1% live in gated communities, hire bodyguards, drive around in armored cars while everyone else cheat steal rob and kill to survive. Thank the fifth columnists among us.

    • Thanks: FLgeezer, Biff
    • Replies: @SafeNow
    , @Priss Factor
  226. @anon

    “Communism wipes away their tradition and forbids all things spiritual…”

    The way I see it, China is not Communist. If it were, it would not have billionaires and private property. The system is more accurately called Chinese National Socialism. This means that Chinese bankers work for the nation and the people, rather than the other way around. It means that even the richest elitists are jailed if they are caught committing crimes. Billionaire Jack Ma tried to financially enslave China, and he was almost imprisoned for it. His scam was shut down, and he apologized profusely to the Chinese people. This would never happen in the West, where financial criminals rule.

    And speaking of private property, it is the West that is doing away with it, as financial firms (e.g. BlackRock) seek to reduce everyone to lifelong renters. The US economy is a rentier economy.

    Western governments work for the rich, whereas China’s government works for the Chinese people. Therefore Western politicians falsely claim that China’s government is “communist.”

    This terminology is designed to make Americans hate China, since American peasants only think in slogans and buzzwords.

    • Agree: antibeast
  227. @anon

    Well, maybe China feels like they should be nicer to their dissident opinions? They don’t have to shoot everyone who disagrees?

    There’s also Caixin for more business focused and pro-capitalism opinions, a lot of sinoNet isn’t really censored, and so on. China just isn’t that tyrannical? I dunno what you want from me.

    Russia has Moscow Times, too, as an equivalency, that basically exists to bash Russia within Russia.

  228. @Realist

    The ethnicities in China are all the same race. If only that were the case in the United States…things would be much better.

    No, they aren’t. But yeah, China doesn’t go around doing ethnomasochism as much. There is affirmative action at times, but Han condemnation is not something entertained much outside the weird worlds of SixthTone or the like.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  229. Che Guava says:

    I wll add that there was actually a productivity party in Japan, 生産党, seisantou, productivity party . Said to have been established by the war-time secret police, I am not sure that is entirely true.

    They were still running under that name until at least the 00s, for meetings and such, and candidates with the same ideas would run for elections.

    Not seen any of that lately.

  230. Anonymous[211] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    100yrsChina vrs 4th JulyUSA..??? USA out of Afghanistan…costs$$? Human costs? Failures? achievements? RESULTS??? who WON?? who is next IRAN/Syria/Ucraine..???? Why China is succesful BUT not Russia? N. Korea? History is NOT LINEAR.(Dialectic Materialism) ..future problems for CHINA? Chinese Glasnost? The rise of the RICH uppper Middle Classes..hungry for more FREEDOMS??? exotic tastes, consumption, travel?? Urban prosperity vrs rural povertry?

  231. Based on the comments above, many Unz readers see everything in military terms. They make comparisons between the US and Chinese militaries.

    This is useless.

    Taiwan, for example does almost five times as much trade with China as with the USA, and this is increasing all the time. Taiwanese people speak Mandarin, and they are culturally more Chinese than Western. Taiwan is only about 100 miles from China, and the USA does not even have an embassy in Taiwan. Why should China invade Taiwan when Taiwan is more and more unified with China anyway?

    Economic and industrial power is ultimately much more important than military power.

    The US government refuses to understand this.

  232. SafeNow says:
    @anonymous

    I agree completely about the need for cultural homogeneity. I will add one footnote — Ethnic diversity is not problematic, if there is cultural similarity. Here in S. California, our many immigrants from China (and their descendants) tend to be industrious, proficient, conscientious, and very decent. Sure, they often self-segregate residentially and recreationally, but so what. Here is where someone comments that they are taking jobs from traditional Americans, and I can’t dispute that, but that is a different issue.

  233. babu says:
    @WorkingClass

    Jesus was a black man. The Chinese believe in a white Jesus.

  234. Anonymous[211] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    CHINESE BLM????

  235. Anon[871] • Disclaimer says:
    @antibeast

    I disagree. First of all where major capital projects are concerned the loan to the country is often greater than the cost to do the project. There is a kickback to the CCP and the local politicians. However, the citizens of that country PAY the bill ie they pay multiple times the value of the goods received. How do the citizens of a country like Jamaica or Kenya where the average annual wage is around $3600 US a year foot the bill and for how long ?

    When I enter say a shoe store I notice sneakers selling for as much as $300. There is no way this footwear manufactured at slave wages costs this much. How many people outside the west have the wherewithal to afford this. In most countries $300 is a month’s salary. The Chinese have to sell to the west at these astronomical prices or their economy will shatter. Some poor fucker in China is not going to be able to. Few people seem to realize that while Chinese cities are all sparkle and glitter, the majority of the population is still poor by western standards. Many people in rural China still wear home made shoes because they cannot afford even the products made in their own country. When Xi boasts that he has lifted millions out of poverty two things need to be kept in mind. First there are billions of people in China and second raise out of poverty compared to what ? If I am earning $100 a month and am now earning $300 a month I could boast of a 200% raise. However compared to the west this is still a slave wage.

    As for western countries operating in China, they would soon pack up and split if the west banned their products. Take Nike, will the CEO continue to operate in China if the US and Europe said no more Nike from China. He would be gone in an instant. Gone means Xi would have to suck on the loss of revenue ! These western companies operate in China only to take advantage of the flunky wages. All of the other Chinese China companies are under the control of the CCP and still dependent on the western dollar.

    I see recently that China is protesting the slow clampdown by western countries on tech development. If China is so independent why the concern. If my income is independent of your goodwill why would I give a shit if you refuse to do business with me.

    No, China is where it is at because of western dollars and resources. Denied these they will revert back to being at the bottom of the ladder.

  236. @anonymous

    The same people who tell us “Diversity is Strength” are also the keenest in promoting American hegemony

    Imperialism used to be justified by ‘racism’. “We are superior and deserve to rule over inferior folks.”

    Now, it is justified by ‘anti-racism’. “Because America is open to all, it deserves to dominate all the world.”

    People think of immigrants as a vulnerable minority group in America, but they are just recruitment for more servitors of the empire. Children of immigrants join the deep state and US military.

    Same with homos. Homos are among the most enthusiastic servitors of empire, especially as the main theme of US is ‘sodomy is rainbow’.

  237. Mike Tre says:

    ” everyone in China is rich and living in luxury.”

    LOL – so this piece is satire.

  238. @Rahan

    However, Catholicism would also be a trojan horse of the Satanic Pope, without the buffer of traditional pre-satanic Catholicism like they have for example in Poland, now would be the worst time to introduce Catholicism into a “virgin” society.

    Good news. Did you know the Chinese Catholic Church must have all it’s bishops approved by Xi? Yep, he’s cut the Vatican out of the loop. How’d he do that? Easy. He bribed them. Because the Vatican cares more about money than its own governing principles.

    God is always at work protecting His church!

    • Thanks: Rahan
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  239. Thim says:

    Just for everyone’s knowledge, Anglin’s website is hosted by China, dailystormer.su is the address. He has been banned most everywhere else.

    So the Chinese Communists make him say crazy things, or they will cut him off. He keeps saying everyone is wealthy in China, which is pretty funny. He knows no one believes that. But he has to say it.

    Well, they got him by the balls, so he will say whatever they tell him too. Or else he goes blank, except for Tor.

  240. Anonymous[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    There are 56 ethnicities in China

  241. Anon[159] • Disclaimer says:

    China could save the World.

    How?

    Simple…

    Place ads everywhere saying that every Jew that comes to visit China by sea will receive Ten Billion RMB.

    Then, when the thousands of Cruise and other Ships & Yachts laden with Jews are sailing across the Pacific, the Chinese Navy intercepts them and maroons the passengers on the Island of Hainan.

    Once there, they may work for 99 Years as servants to the Chinese Government, building artificial Islands with buckets and shovels.

    No procreation would be allowed.

  242. Anon[994] • Disclaimer says:

    The brainwashing confusion lies in inventing terms like “communism”, “capitalism”, “liberalism”, etc. for the people to bicker over.

    To the Chinese, there are only TWO types of government, a Good and a Bad government. All else is superfluous.

    A thousand year old Meritocratic system ensures that the top students from every university is recruited into the Party/Government regardless of background or gender to ensure that those Chinese officials sitting from across the likes of Blinken are ahead by double digits in IQ scores.

    “Communism” just happens to resemble most closely the ideal that they strive for, ie a predominantly middle class society with very low % of the rich and poor and an effective government that sees to its realization. The perpetual fight throughout history is against corruption and abuse of power, and the concentration of wealth in the hands of a powerful few in collusion with government officials, and this system resembles “Capitalism” as defined by Marx. That’s all to these newly invented fancy political labels.

    A big fat middle class where the majority of the country’s wealth is concentrated is the ideal state, and all government policies are focused on investing in mass infrastructure, education, healthcare, rural farming, public security, etc. sectors from which capitalists recoil in horror. The Chinese are the most satisfied with the current CPC government because it delivers this and is delivering more to future generations.

    The test of the pudding is in the Tasting, not the Naming.

    • Thanks: Biff
    • Replies: @Smith
  243. @Thim

    .su is the Soviet Union. They still have a domain if not a country. I’m surprised more banned dissidents aren’t making use of it.

  244. Ber says:
    @Nancy O'Brien Simpson

    I think people need to distinguish the good people from the bad.

    Complex….but there are still some good white people around, same for the coloreds.

    The trick is not to be overwhelmed by these bad guys.

  245. @Thim

    Th .su suffix has nothing to do with China.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.su

    Thank you for playing.

  246. @Crescent Moon

    Honestly tell me this – what is the difference between a rural Chinese catching and eating a field rat and someone in Texas or Florida who eat oppposum and squirrel and armadillo or lizard they catch? I would eat none of any listed… But what is the difference?

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  247. @Godfree Roberts

    “In 1949, Mao wrote President Roosevelt…”

    FDR died in 1945. Mao hadn’t heard about it four years later?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  248. @Anon

    The “elites” of the US have all their barbs set out against China and Russia because these are still intact nations with people and governments who believe in traditional values. They are seen as the greatest impediments to the globo-homo world government that the elites dream about. The Chinese system won’t work for white people but it works for the Chinese people, but we can look at them with envy that they still have an intact system considering all the turmoil that they’ve been through in the twentieth century while we in the US have had an easy time of it in the past 100 years and yet we’re falling apart. I think that the idea that the idea that adversity breeds strength is very true when one looks at the situation in Russia and China today. For those of us that live in the US and western nations, we can look at China and Russia and it can give us strength to resist the globo-homo onslaught against everything that we hold dear.

  249. ProudBLM says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    China’s Nuclear bombs came via that “welfare queen” state Israel, as many other weapons programs which includes their J-10 fighter which looks by an amazing Cohencidence like the Lavi fighter.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  250. @Stephen Paul Foster

    It was Truman, via George Marshall.

  251. @New Jersey

    Almost all governments are involved with senior Catholic clerical appointments and have always been.

    China has always had the last word on appointments of Dalai Lamas. The current incumbent sought approval of the Nationalist government before his investiture.

  252. @ProudBLM

    China’s nukes predated Israel’s and were indigenously developed.
    The Chinese fighter bears no resemblance to the Lavi.

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @antibeast
  253. @Commentator Mike

    It meant the means of salvation would come through their nation.

  254. Mr. Anglin has some refreshing viewpoints, but China is not one of them. He is unable to make useful distinctions about all aspects of the current situation, including:

    – the CCP is not China, it is an abomination forced upon Chinese people, almost all of whom admit that the CCP does not have ‘the mandate of Heaven’;
    – mistakenly conflates the communist ecto-nationalist ideology for national cohesion;
    – mistakes decades of intellectual property theft for internally generated scientific and technological advancement.
    – is mesmerized by advanced architectural buildings and high-speed rail, while everywhere else tofu buildings and bridges are falling apart before they’re even used;
    – ignores that organ harvesting of political prisoners is so rampant, that someone need only wait 2 weeks in China instead of 5 years everywhere else in the world, and that the top transplant hospitals are PLA army.
    – refuses to understand that the big bad CCP is scared to death of 0.52 % of its population, i.e., Hong Kong; this is NOT a color revolution, it is tyrannical control of ideas spreading to 99.48% of the rest of the country.
    – ignores that the CCP unilaterally annexed the South China Sea and every island in it already belonging to other nations; the Philippines took China to international court and won over China’s invasion of the Spratley’s. Unilateral, permanent annexation and invasion are NOT the hallmarks of a friendly government.
    – ignores that the CCP is so paranoid about historical slights that it refuses to allow Taiwan to exist as an independent country; based on that attitude, the CCP would also have clear title to every Chinatown in every country on earth.
    – Mr. Anglin professes to be a Christian, but doesn’t care that the CCP razes churches to the ground, forces icons of Xi Jingping inside every church, and closely monitors every member in order to harass them as enemies of the state;
    – the CCP lauded Falun Gong when it first started in 1992, but now routinely arrests members and takes them away without trial to be harvested for their organs, the same as it does for all political dissidents who are jailed without trial or notification of their relatives;
    – ignores the invasion of Tibet without cause or warning, and the systematic destruction of Tibetan culture to ensure that they can steal water and mineral resources without opposition;
    – ignores that Chinese society in general has no moral ethos, having had it wiped out over the last 100 years by the CCP, and that incidents such as running over people in the streets without passersby helping is common all over the country;

    This list could go on and on, but Mr. Anglin is blind to vital distinctions he should be making between China, the CCP, and the Chinese people. He is well and truly wrong about all of it. It would be advisable for him to get his head screwed on straight unless he continues to make a jackass out of himself, and bring contempt to his otherwise good ideas about the rest of politics and society.

    • Disagree: antibeast
    • Troll: d dan, Godfree Roberts
  255. Joe Wong says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    In 1981 (25 years after the event) Judith Banister at the US Bureau of the Census proposed 30 millions killed in the Great Leap Forward (GLF) based on her “massive death toll” hypothesis, this figure is the mother of all subsequent numbers when the westerns write about the GLF; Frank Dikotter quoted 45 millions murdered in the GLF to win the Samuel Johnson prize for non-fiction; recently Jung Chang and Jon Halliday said 70 millions killed in the GLF in their book “Mao: the Unknown Story.” All of them claimed their number based on secret sources in china. The latest number is 100 millions murdered in the GLF in some western political analysis sites.

    Meanwhile the West under the leadership of the USA were embargoing and sanction China with their almighty military and economy forces for their mindless ideological cold war, they not only not providing humanitarian aids, they also forbidden everybody else send humanitarian aids to the starving Chinese.

    Sick of Orcs, how many do you believe deaths (or percentage) would attribute to polices of the Great Leap Forward and how many deaths would attribute to the West and American’s cool blooded mindless embargo and sanction?

  256. @Sick of Orcs

    In other words – you have no real rebuttal except to repeat “psychopath” and “murderer”. A perfect example of someone who can’t think objectively because their brain is filled with propaganda.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  257. denk says:

    This partial list provides the basis for the
    FOUR WHO rule ..

    WHO has the motive, means, track record for launching the SARS2 FF against China.
    ——————————
    Faq
    [work in progess]

    FUKUS covert/overt wars on China since 1949 with bio war fares highlighted.

    [MORE]

    1950 Korean war, bioweapons used on NK., Chinese civilians

    1955, CIA/TW attempt at Zhou Enlai’s life

    1959 CIA/RAW Tibet riot,

    1962 FUKUS instigated Indo./sino war,

    1963 CIA funded anti Chinese riots in BaNdung, INdon

    1965 [[[CIA/MI5]]] INdon genocide on ethnic Chinese.

    1989 CIA/MI6 TAM, destabilisation/demonisation.

    1993, Chinese freighter Yinhe hijacked by USN, pirates at hight sea.
    https://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/06/world/no-chemical-arms-aboard-china-ship.html

    1998 CIA/MI6 orchestrated Indon pogrom , mass rapes on ethnic Chinese

    1999 BOmbing of Chinese embassy in ex Yugo,

    2001 Hainan spy plane, Chinese pilot died.

    2003 SARS1,

    2003 Iraq,

    2006 regime change in Kenya

    2008 Tibet riots,

    2009 Xinjiang bloodbath,

    2011 Libya,

    2013 Mali terrorism

    2013 Bird flu H7N9, Asia pivot

    2014 Sudan,

    2014 Ebola,

    2014 Xinjiang, HK, Mh370, bubonic plague, Ebola, Dengue,

    2015 Congo riots

    2018 bird flu, H7N9

    2019 HK, Xinjiang, swine flu, army worms,

    2020 SARS2, H5N1, locusts.

    2021
    Full spectrum smear campaign over Xinjiang , HK, covid, yellow peril.

    FUKUS prepping for
    Four fronts attacks at Lakdah, TW Straits, SCS, ECS !

  258. antibeast says:
    @Anon

    When I enter say a shoe store I notice sneakers selling for as much as $300. There is no way this footwear manufactured at slave wages costs this much. How many people outside the west have the wherewithal to afford this. In most countries $300 is a month’s salary. The Chinese have to sell to the west at these astronomical prices or their economy will shatter.

    I am trying to make sense of your post but your facts are incorrect. Chinese factories make shoes for Western brands like Nike which sell those shoes at $300. So those profits go to Nike not China.

    As for western countries operating in China, they would soon pack up and split if the west banned their products. Take Nike, will the CEO continue to operate in China if the US and Europe said no more Nike from China. He would be gone in an instant. Gone means Xi would have to suck on the loss of revenue ! These western companies operate in China only to take advantage of the flunky wages. All of the other Chinese China companies are under the control of the CCP and still dependent on the western dollar.

    Western companies operating in China such as Nike have already relocated their factories to other lower-cost developing countries such as Vietnam and Indonesia with the remaining factories in China producing shoes for the Chinese market. Only State-owned companies are under the control of the CCP but they’re not dependent on the US$ as they don’t operate in Western countries.

    I am trying to figure out what exactly you’re trying to say in your post but it seems you don’t understand economics.

  259. antibeast says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    China had been designing and producing jet fighters such as the J-8 since the 60s with the J-10 being designed in the 70s while the Lavi project was started only in 1980 which was Israel’s first and only jet fighter project.

  260. antibeast says:
    @Liosnagcat

    Yet another psychotic moron.

  261. @Godfree Roberts

    The current Dalai has been a CIA asset since the 50s, after his earlier instruction in fascism by the German, Harrer. Not much different from Mobutu, Kagame, Duarte, Pinochet, Hawke or Diem et al.

  262. Malla says:
    @Rahan

    Same thing happened the pro-Westernisation Indians. The West they looked up to was the Victorian era West of proper manners, strict sexuality, proper dressing etc.etc… that is the West they aspired to and even anti-West hating Indians (there were many of them) in some ways respected. After WW2, after the fall of the German Third Reich, it was all promiscuity, miniskirt, behaving like buffoons, nose rings and tattoos and filthy hippies. And even the earlier pro-West traditional Indians were baffled and did not want to Westernize anymore. Indians were baffled how could these hippie joker White rule over us? Our ancestors bowed down to these jokers, what embarrassment? Of course the Whites ruling India were tough intelligent British gentlemen, not hippie leftard idiots. While the leftist White hippie idiots went around Goa thinking the natives love us and we “understand the natives”, into Hindu meditation and stuff (getting looted and screwed by cunning Hindu holymen) and all that bullshit, the truth is they were looked down by the natives. Sure some upper middle class took up this new pop/rock culture but actually Westernisation took a back seat among intellectuals. I think this was done on purpose by Jews to stop positive Westernisaton of the World. This is true for both Muslims and Hindus. Both, even the anti-Western elements, at some level respected the traditional West, the Victorian West.
    Only difference is that Muslims are Jew wise and they know the Jewish role behind all this shittery. While Hindus either do not know or do not want to know because Hindus love and worship Jews.
    And that is exactly the reason why Hindus succumbed more to Western promiscuity than Muslims eventually. Muslims intellectuals, the imams looked at this post WW2 western “modernization”, as an universal phenomenon, a threat to all mankind not a White thing. Brahmins in their excessive hatred for West and Whitey and being good at farting bullshit from their ass, convinced Hindus that this was a “White thing”. White people were always like this, they were always like this, it was a genetic thing. Low IQ Muslim masses believe the same but their Imams have a better understanding of the World.
    As usual hate Whitey and love Jewey comes with curses from this Universe. Hindus looked at it as a White thing, genetically White, so they thought they were more or less immune to this phenomenon, may happen to a few “misguided” Westernised dirty Hindus but will never happen to the majority as it is a White thing.
    And it did not, why because before the 90’s modern Western culture was still dominated by Whites and Whites are seen as “posh” and the thaggard Indian masses rejected it. But soon black culture became dominant and thaggard Indians picked up thaggard black ghetto culture, they were prone to it because of taste and low IQ. Add to that Bollywood itself succumbed and it changed Indian masses. Before you know it, Hindu masses too began succumbing to this Judeo-negro promiscuity shit. Muslims were less affected because they were more Jew wise and know what was really happening behind the scenes.

    • Thanks: Rahan
  263. @Anon

    The more vicious the racist, the dumber and more pig ignorant it is. If China is such a basket-case, why are you ‘Exceptionals’ so shit-scared of it?

  264. @Agent76

    Austfailia is ruled by some of the most scabrous specimens of the genus Homo ever seen. Stupid, pig ignorant, incompetent, amusingly arrogant, they, in politics, the MSM and business and much of academia MUST be slavishly boot-licking to ‘Our Great And Powerful Friends’ or else. The Yanks have already overthrown two PMs, Whitlam and Rudd, and at least one other, Hawke (also, like Gillard a groveling Sabbat Goy)was a ‘protected source’ of the US Embassy. We are, in no way, an independent State, and when the Five Eyes decided c.2011, to ‘bring China down’ before it was too late, we volunteered to be first to ‘go over the top’. It accords well with the country’s innate racism, and particularly Sinophobic racism.

  265. tobi999 says:
    @obwandiyag

    well and it still not real communism, the banks are just state owned, but they have private banks, difference is they do not get money from the central bank…to create new money…..just the government controlled banks, and they give loans just out for real economy growth, building houses, buying cars, etc. infrastructure there is always together with the fresh created money a collateral to collect… at the same time it creates always real jobs and demand….

    while in the west the banks create 98% just to buy stocks and keep them artifically up….its actually inflation and a false wealthy that doesn’t exist…..

    thats also why western countries aka wallstreet and city of london so pissed about the Chinese financial regulations….as their banks can not create more money to gamble in China….if they want to invest they can but they can not play there their games…..

    all a country and its people need is money creation put into to real productivity and real economy, results in jobs and economy growth automatically in creating real wealth and improving citizens lifes….while we in the west do exactly the oppesite strangualting small and medium businesses and taxing just them and the working to move all money to gamblers and lazzy parasites…

  266. denk says:
    @Anon

    China cannot project its military power to the US or Europe’

    China has no intention to project its military power to the US or Europe’
    FIFY

    Wow no shit genius.
    Better inform your dear leaders before they
    start ww3 to pre-empt the yellow peril
    hehehhe

    China is now “generally recognized as being a threat to all of the Five Eyes and to the West generally,” said Richard Fadden, former director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service

    https://www.bloombergquint.com/global-economics/-five-eyes-spy-alliance-trains-focus-on-xi-in-echo-of-cold-war

    NATO brands China as an immediate threat

    https://tfiglobalnews.com/2021/06/15/after-g7-nato-brands-china-as-an-immediate-threat/

  267. denk says:
    @anon

    Anti-white content in state media like Globaltimes / China Daily.

    Could it have something to do with this per chance ?

    https://www.unz.com/aanglin/xi-puts-on-mao-suit-and-flies-many-jets-in-honor-of-100-years-of/#comment-4766590

    Newton’s Law…
    Action ==> Reaction ?

  268. @Nancy O'Brien Simpson

    Conquest, subjugation, slavery have always been the normal way that peoples have spread. Tribes massacred men and enslaved boys, women, and children, and took over the land of other tribes. This happened from the beginning of time throughout Africa, Asia, across the entire Euroasian land mass, including China and India. All 57 Islamic countries were created by conquest and massacres, slavery and subjugation. The evidence is written in their DNA, as they carry the genetic evidence of the “crimes” of their jihadi ancestors. Please recall that North Africa, the Near East, and Central Asia we’re largely Caucasian peoples before the Islamic conquest by the sword. Do you think that all 57 Islamic states, built on genocide, slavery, and the taking of land by the sword are therefore illegitimate states whose people should hang their heads in shame and teach their children to hate themselves?

    Please also recall that as another example, that Islamic Arabs raided Europe for centuries for White sex slaves, boys and women. Do they owe us reparations?

    Arabs also purchased much more African male slaves from Jewish slave traders than the Jewish slave traders brought for sale in the Americas. There is no lasting population because the males were castrated and infantcide was practiced for Black female slaves, although European women were preferred by the Arabs for sex slavery and not aborted. Ten times more died on the marched by Arabs across the Sahara as died on Jewish slave ships on the Middle Passage. Reparations from Arabs and Israel for Africa? Loss of legitimacy, shame and self hatred for their children?

    I love my people, all my peoples ancestry. LOVE PRIDE and GRATITUDE. If you want to judge us, then judge all people and nation’s with the same standards. Of course, I hardly need to mention the unbelievable contributions of White European MEN to the whole world.

    But it was never about history, justice, reason, rational or critical thinking, common sense or logic. Just old fashioned envy and jealousy and hatred from resentment. Anti Whitism is petty and childish. And most of all it is based on lies and an actual rejection of reality, forget about facts and analysis. Non Reality is the weapon against White men and the Western Civilization that they built and that has fed the world up to 7 billion + brought about and sustained by the burden on his back.

    We need to shake off this burden and the altruism and greed of traitors and delusions of our enemies that keeps us more and more enslaved, gaslighted to our genocide, and that of our billions of dependents as collateral damage

    Peddle your CRT drivel elsewhere. We are not sufficiently stupid here to take it seriously. I took the time to write this out for our younger pro White (normal and healthy) community members. It is useless to engage with people who make absurd comments as yours.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
  269. @Joe Wong

    30 million is the figure which Banister gives in her classic study China’s Changing Population. What is significant is to read over her postulated figures and understand how she arrives at that number. I gave some of her numbers up above so check those. Banister’s hypothesized figures show a steep unprecedented drop in Chinese mortality occurring in the years 1949-57. Banister herself is honest enough in crediting the Chinese revolutionaries for this. Then Banister’s figures show an incremental rise in mortality occurring over the years 1958-9, followed by a big spike in 1960, after which it drops down again in 1961 to something still above 1957, and by 1962 has resumed the pattern of general dropping mortality.

    If one uses Banister’s postulated mortality rate of 18.12 for 1957 as a benchmark, then we come out with around 25 million excess deaths occurring in 1958-61. If we jump to the later 1962 number and use this as a standard then the 25 million goes up further because we are now assuming that an even lower mortality rate than 18,12 should have held. Banister averages such numbers together with the 25 million to give 30 million. The obvious thing to keep in mind when Banister makes these claims is that such numbers are using the remarkable drop in mortality that occurred in 1949-57 and resumed in 1962 as a benchmark for judging famine deaths. This is a very different standard from what was used to assess earlier Chinese famines. The usual estimate of 5 million dead that is given for the 1936 famine does not assume a standard mortality rate of 18.12 per thousand. It allows for many more “normal” deaths in a given year so that the “5 million” simply represents the deaths over that norm.

    If we used Banister’s postulated figure of 38 per thousand dying in 1949 as a standard then we would deduce that about 4.35 million died in 1960 above the norm, whereas the years 1949-59 and 1961+ would all show lower mortality rates. This is why it is totally misleading to describe the famine of 1960 as the worst in Chinese history. It did not actually have higher than usual death rates. It was simply that death rates by 1957 were much lower than usual.

    As for the mythical “45 million” figure (and anything above it) this is arrived at simply switching tables and using the official statistics for some years, and some variant of Banister’s data for other years. The official government data claimed a mortality rate of 20 per thousand in 1949 and 10.8 in 1957. These numbers are obviously too low across the board. But if you use the 10.8 as a benchmark for assessing mortality after 1957, while adopting the higher numbers which Banister gives for those later years, then of course the final estimate of excess deaths goes far above 25-30 million, bringing one into the 40s. But it’s all a false deduction arrived at by using 2 different tables of numbers.

    Imagine if there 2 different statistical publications which gave different estimates of the black population in the US using different standards, so that the final figures differed by a million. Now imagine some wanna-be SJW producing a “study” where they claim that a million blacks were murdered by white racists based upon the difference of figures in the 2 sources during different years. That’s the type of methodology which is being used when people go from claiming that the Chinese death rate was 10.8 per thousand in 1957 to then placing the death rate for 1960 in the 40s. It’s totally doctored from 2 identifiable distinct sources which used completely different standards.

    • Thanks: antibeast
    • Replies: @antibeast
  270. @showmethereal

    The difference is that in China they eat such animals out of poverty, in the US out of luxury.

    • LOL: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  271. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    It’s like Australia had a Chinese girlfriend who became independent, making Australia resentful.

    During the commodities boom of 2000-to-2014, Australia loved its Chinese girlfriend. Australia provided raw materials, and China provided sweatshops. Rich Australians got richer. (Canada went through this exact same process.)

    By 2015 China started showing signs of independence. Therefore Australia started to punish China with sanctions. So did the USA and Western Europe. This made China more independent, which brought more sanctions, which made China more independent.

    Eventually, because of media brainwashing, the average Australian became intensely anti-China. Australians now hate China even more than Americans hate China.

    Australians are more anti-China than are any other people in the world except Swedes and Japanese. (Japan has always feared China.)

    Today China remains willing to work with the West, but China will no longer be bullied, lectured to, or exploited.

    Many Westerners cannot handle this emotionally. They are childish and arrogant. And the more their own nations die, the more they stamp their feet, and make empty threats against China. It’s pathetic.

    • Replies: @denk
  272. @showmethereal

    The truth about mao will out. It already has.

    Sex, Drugs and Mao Zedong

    Two new books show that Beijing’s leaders were more ruthless — and corrupt — than even their enemies imagined

    http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,975036,00.html

  273. @Joe Wong

    Sick of Orcs, how many do you believe deaths (or percentage) would attribute to polices of the Great Leap Forward and how many deaths would attribute to the West and American’s cool blooded mindless embargo and sanction?

    I attribute all Chinese GLF and famine deaths to the communist thugs who created the problems.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  274. China should learn the lessons of the downfall of the west and embrace some of Hitler’s ideas about extermination of the synagogue of Satan these bloodsucking vampires that destroyed the west in addition to the ashkenazi worshipping christians.

  275. @Patrick McNally

    Everyone involved in guesstimating Chinese deaths resulting from famine is working in the dark. Like (((fake news))), communist regimes exist as living, breathing lies and are not known for their accuracy.

    The absurdity lies in downplaying the death toll of a preventable, non-wartime famine in the 1960s.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  276. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Not true. Rats are a delicacy in China and can be eaten in many fancy establishments – not that I’d try it.

  277. Hughes says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Most academicians from Australia that make a living outside Australia in Asian nation is an anti racism and amicable appreciators of others cultures. I can tell you for sure that those i know they all have the same opinion in the oddity in how distant they felt their home country Australia make themselves to Asian countries.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  278. antibeast says:
    @Patrick McNally

    Here’s a good article on the ‘inflated death rates of China’s Famine’ by UTSA PATNAIK:

    The figure of 30 million deaths during China’s famine has no scholarly basis whatsoever but passed into popular folklore.

    http://www.socialisteconomist.com/2018/11/ideological-statistics-inflated-death.html

  279. @Sick of Orcs

    China in 1960 is not to be equated with Europe. Up into the 1930s it was taken for granted by observers that China was a place with high risk of famine. WWII overrode that insofar as famine is expected as part of war. Then in the post-revolutionary era it happened that there seemed to be a great unprecedented improvement in the livelihood of most Chinese. Then the Great Leap Forward was launched and it obviously did not go as planned, but still there was no evidence that mortality reached a level which would be traditionally regarded as famine by Chinese standards until 1960, when we have clear evidence of natural disaster playing the critical role. That doesn’t erase the criticism the GLF was recklessly done from the start, but it certainly is a quite different picture from what is commonly presented.

  280. Then the Great Leap Forward was launched and it obviously did not go as planned.

    That’s usually the case with centrally-planned communist schemes.

    but still there was no evidence that mortality reached a level which would be traditionally regarded as famine by Chinese standards until 1960

    Chinese Famine death toll estimates range from 15 to 55 million, a wide arc indeed.

    covidhoaxers are weeping over an alleged 4 million deaths, so downplaying Chinese famine casualties as not being a famine because it doesn’t meet “Chinese standards” seems rather odd.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  281. @Sick of Orcs

    As I’ve pointed out above already, those insane claims of “55 million” (to the extent that any attempt is made to rationalize them with data) are based upon cross-matching the 2 different tables with dishonest results. This is what Jung Chang does when she writes:

    “Chinese demographers have concluded that death rates in the four years 1958-61 were 1.20 per cent, 1.45 per cent, 4.34 per cent and 2.83 per cent respectively. The average death rate in the three years immediately before and after the famine was 1.03 per cent–1957: 1.08 per cent, 1962: 1 per cent and 1963: 1 per cent.”
    — Mao: The Unknown Story, p. 438.

    [MORE]

    Looking at the Statistical Yearbook of China 1986 we see that the per thousand mortality rates which they give for 1957-63 are 10.80, 11.98, 14.59, 25.43, 14.24, 10.02 and 10.04. Allowing for some rounding we see that the figures for 1957-59 and 1962-3 which Jung Chang gives are essentially those given by Chinese demographers. But somehow the numbers for 1960-1 have been replaced. Now for an alternate view we go to look at Banister’s model and the numbers we get for these same years are now 18.12, 20.65, 22.06, 44.60, 23.01, 14.02 and 13.81. Here it’s obvious that the numbers for the years 1957-9 and 1962-3 are markedly higher than the figures which Jung Chang claims, especially in the earlier years. But the numbers for 1960-1 are more in the same region with just some shifting between the common years (44.6, 23.01 —> 43.4, 28.3).

    This kind of nonsense put together by Jung Chang is not the result of a special data source. It reflects that Jung Chang is cribbing numbers from different sources to put together a fake set of data. That is the only way that anyone has ever been able to come up such silly claims as “45 million” or whatever.

    Also as I’ve said, it is just generally misleading to give an estimate of alleged mortality based upon the death rates for years such as 1957 without noting how the mortality rate dropped so drastically in the years 1949-57. Only by using 1957 as a standard has anyone ever been able to come up with a figure like 11 million, never mind 55 million. In fact the death rates of 18.12, 20.65, 22.06 which Banister postulates for 1957-59 would all have been regarded as a great improvement in livelihood by anyone in China prior to 1949. Even the alleged death rate of 28.3 per thousand which Jung Chang puts forward for 1961 is higher than the all-time low mortality rate attained by Czarist Russia in 1912 which was 28.7 per thousand.

  282. So judging by the complete lack of responses to @185, you guys really are this fucking retarded. You are so fucking feeble-minded that you cannot discern even the most laughably obvious propaganda. China could tell you it has invented a cure for all disease for the low price of $50,000, and you’d line up to present your credit cards. Because you’re fucking stupid and readily believe even the most obvious bullshit.

    • Replies: @Arthur MacBride
  283. @Z-man

    Didn’t you get the memo…?? China can hack everything according to the US media and gov – so that means – anything they give to the ROC – the PRC knows it’s capabilities long before. And it is true that the US won’t sell the most advanced weapons because it knows there are those on the island who will gladly give the info to the Mainland. It has nothing to do with security… It’s just another weapons client for the military industrial complex.

  284. @peterike

    Ummmm – no…. FDR was a supporter of the Soongs and Chiangs…. Those were the Nationalists – who were trying to kill all of Mao’s followers.

  285. @Anon

    “How do the citizens of a country like Jamaica or Kenya where the average annual wage is around $3600 US a year foot the bill and for how long ?”

    In the case of Jamaica – China is being paid back via tolls charged on highways that were built. Some things – like the Ministry of Foreign Affairs – and children’s hospital were built for free. Why for China to establish goodwill in order to get more concessionary terms to build a logistics hub there. How will that be paid back? It won’t. China puts up the capital – locals get jobs – China earns fees from the shipping industry.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  286. denk says:
    @anon

    our vassal Japan

    In the 80’s, japs were the yellow peril.
    Today its the Chinese turn. [1]

    Wanted: Enemy to Justify $344 753 Billion War Budget [2]

    [1]
    http://www.newsinsider.org/editorials/the_three_legged_stool.html

    [2]
    https://www.nationofchange.org/2021/05/31/biden-shows-true-colors-proposing-bigger-war-department-budget-than-trump/

  287. denk says:
    @A little boy in the crowd

    It’s like Australia had a Chinese girlfriend who became independent, making Australia resentful.

    YOur main theme is fine but Your story sucks.
    Here’s what happens…..

    Sam is a mobster who owns many concubines, one of them is Nancy who happens to be a major supplier to industrialist Chen.

    Sam had wanted to fix Chen badly cuz the chinaman defied his demand for protection money.
    So the Mafiaso ordered Nancy to slander Chen for raping her, the poor dear dunno how to say no to Sam the brute, so she comply meekly .

    Chen was furious, ‘Look I dont give a damn who you sleep with at night as long as you give me a fair deal but this is what I get for being your best customer all these years…?

    the chinaman stop sourcing from Nancy, guess who took over the orders …..The mafiaso and his cohorts. !
    Poor Nancy confronted Deng in all innocence,.
    ‘What did I do to deserve this ?’

    The chinaman reply
    ‘This is what you get for lying down with someone like Sam’

    [MORE]

    ——

    The five liars, the japs, the swedes…they all hate chinese.

    five liars track record
    https://www.unz.com/aanglin/xi-puts-on-mao-suit-and-flies-many-jets-in-honor-of-100-years-of/#comment-4766590

    This is the japs even more illustrious history,,,

    jap pirates terrorised China’s coastal towns during the MIng dynasty.
    jap annexed Ryukyuu island, [currently Okinawa] a Chinese tribulate, in 1879…
    jap robbed TW from China in 1895…
    jap invaded Chinese mainland in ww2…
    Last but not least, the Diaoyu isle.

    So I heard five liars and their jap buddies, those honorable whites [sic] are the most rabid sinophobes around.
    Considering their centuries old abuse of China, this undying and unremorseful hatred of all things Chinese today say more about their own psychosis than any alleged Chinese misdemeanor

    Just look at the twin idiots of KKK and sick of life here, ugly murikkan personified.

    As for the Swedes…
    what do you expect from the land of snowflakes ?

  288. @showmethereal

    China restructures debt without penalties and forgives debt FAR more often than the blood-sucking West, then, typically, the Western psychopaths lie about China’s behaviour, and dumb, racists, fucks believe it.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  289. @Patrick McNally

    In my opinion Jung Chang, a comically over-rated ‘author’, and compradore enemy of China, therefore a pert of her White patrons, is worthy only of contempt. Read Han Suyin for better writing, and hagiographic balance. Mind you, Mao was incontestably the greatest geopolitical figure of the 20th century, which sticks in the craw of Western racists.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  290. @Hughes

    I was able to see academics at the ANU in operation in the 70s, and they were often eastern European refugees from what were called ‘Captive Nations’ then. In other words, Hungarian, Baltic, Croat and other fascists and die-hard anti-communists. They all LOATHED China and its ‘Red hordes’ and favoured Taiwan. Not a few were pissed that Whitlam recognised the PRC. Many of the specifically Chinese Studies academics were similarly Red-baiters, and far preferred the ‘ Classical’ Chinese that they studied with an entomologist’s dedication, as quaint, Confucian, vaguely exotic, figures. Chinese as tough, resilient, even patriotic people, not subservient to the Big Brothers of the West, were not to their tastes. Mao was, naturally, loathed.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  291. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    China will force concessions to take over territory, like in the case of this Sri Lanka port, getting a lease of 198 years, twice as long as the British had on Hong Kong!

    China can extend Hambantota port lease to 198 years, Sri Lankan minister says

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3122975/mistake-china-can-extend-hambantota-port-lease-198-years-sri

  292. @Patrick McNally

    What is the most agreed upon Chinese famine death toll?

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  293. In the Chinese mind, there is no reference to Marx (…)

    Apparently, this article’s author would rather invent his own version of reality than simply read the news:

    Xi Jinping: Marxism is full of vitality in 21st century China
    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-05-27/Xi-Jinping-Marxism-is-full-of-vitality-in-21st-century-China-10BYt1amE1i/index.html

    No regrets: Xi says Marxism still ‘totally correct’ for China
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-marx-china-idUSKBN1I50ET

  294. @ford prefect

    you guys really are this fucking retarded

    You are so fucking feeble-minded

    Because you’re fucking stupid and readily believe even the most obvious bullshit.

    Looks like the answer to your original question is —

    “Yes, you are the only one.”

    It must be difficult being so clever among UR dullards, perfect, and having such unparalleled grasp of the lingua franca can only add to your grievance.

    I believe Camomile Tea is quite effective in moments such as these.

  295. @Sick of Orcs

    Given the way that the numbers are cribbed from different conflicting sources and cited out of context, I prefer to go back to what the data shows. The prime sources used for all assertions are the tables first given in the Statistical Yearbook of China 1986 on pages 71-2 and the subsequent revised tabulations made by Judith Banister in China’s Changing Population of p. 352. First of all one needs the estimates of annual population in the given years. From the Statistical Yearbook:

    [MORE]

    1957_____646,530,000
    1958_____659,940,000
    1959_____672,070,000
    1960_____662,070,000
    1961_____658,590,000
    1962_____672,950,000
    1963_____691,720,000

    Banister’s numbers differ somewhat:

    1957_____633,215,000
    1958_____646,703,000
    1959_____654,349,000
    1960_____650,661,000
    1961_____644,670,000
    1962_____653,302,000
    1963_____674,249,000

    Then the natural question becomes one of deciding what is to be considered as “excess mortality” in any given year and how many “excess deaths” does this amount to? In the Statistical Yearbook the mortality rate given for 1949 is 20 per thousand while for 1957-63 the rates given are 10.8, 11.98, 14.59, 25.43, 14.24, 10.02, 10.04. Banister gives 38 and then 18.12, 20.65, 22.06, 44.60, 23.01, 14.02, 13.81.

    If we use the 1949 mortality rate as a benchmark for rating everything later the Statistical Yearbook gives an excess mortality rate in 1960 of 25.43 – 20 = 5.43. If we place that against the 1959 population of 672,070,000 which the Yearbook gives then we come out with about 3,649,340 deaths occurring that are above the 1949 death rate. On the other hand one can compute numbers for 1958-61 using the much lower death rate given for 1957. This would now mean defining excess deaths relative to the 10.8 which is given for 1957. That would be 11.98 – 10.8 = 1.18 for 1958, 14.59 – 10.8 = 3.79 for 1959, 25.43 – 10.8 = 14.63 for 1960, and 14.24 – 10.8 = 3.44 for 1961. Then using the population estimates for 1957-1960 of the Yearbook we get 762,905 excess deaths in 1958, 2,501,173 in 1959, 9,832,384 in 1960, and 2,277,521 in 1961. These would total as 15,373,983 deaths occurring 1958-61 which would not have occurred if mortality had remained as it was in 1957.

    The same calculations can be done with Banister’s data and of course give bigger numbers. So to compute Banister’s implied excess deaths in 1960 over the 1949 standard we would have 44.6 – 38 = 6.6 per thousand and then using Banister’s number of 654,349,000 would give 4.318,703 deaths above the 1949 rate. Using the 1957 rate as given by Banister would give excess death rates of 20.65 — 18.12 = 2.53, 22.06 – 18.12 = 3.94, 44.6 – 18.12 = 26.48, 23.01 – 18.12 = 4.89 for 1958-61. Translating that into excess deaths according to Banister’s data would give 1,602,034 in 1958, 2,548,010 in 1959, 17,327,162 in 1960, 3,181,732 in 1961 for 1958-61 total of 24,658,938 deaths in excess of Banister’s 1957 postulate.

    That at least gives the consistent calculations for each separate table without mixing them inconsistently. One can quibble with the claims made about birth rates and how these might actually affect the estimates for death rates. Banister’s data on birth rates seems to show births taking off again after 1961, despite claims that infertility was widespread. That obviously could mean that Banister was overestimating deaths rates for 1958-61. But those are separate issues.

    • Thanks: Sick of Orcs
  296. Anon[994] • Disclaimer says:

    I suggested previously that labels are facile and are designed to completely brainwash and misdirect discourse.

    All you need to know about China is HOW will what you learn illuminate your own affairs in your own country.

    There are only TWO types of governments, Good or Bad.

    What’s Good? It’s universal, the 10 Commandments, Golden Rule, Morals, Ethics, etc. all pro-social values that ensure perpetuation of civilization.

    The eternal struggle of any society is the one against those who violate the rules of Good in order to exert total control, wealth, power, resources etc. and enslavement, aka the 1%, over the rest of the great unwashed.

    Likewise for China – it costs China 20 million lives over a century before it got rid of the thoroughly corrupt 1% Nationalist Jiang government that was a peon of the CIA/5 Eyes. It was a painful, bloody, and completely hidden history often misrepresented in the MSM for the usual reasons.

    The reason why the Chinese would never agree to elections is because it would just provide the easy opening for the 1% to infiltrate China the way Russia was infiltrated to be quartered and consumed by the globalists and oligarchs.

    It’s either going to be a Good upward beneficent cycle or a Bad downward malignant spiral to the finish. Which is which? Take a look at the country and the majority of its people. Do you see $$$$$$$$ in infrastructure, cities, schools, hospitals, low crime middle class neighborhoods, space programs, etc or are the homeless lining previously prosperous boulevards and kids stoned on drugs and alcohol while $$$$$$$$$$$ are tucked away in 1% offshore accounts?

    It took a Putin to somewhat save Russia, and he’s not rid of the oligarchs yet. It would take a hundred families like the Dead Kennedys for the US to be freed from the MIC, Globalists, Wall St, Silicon Valley, the Elite Families, etc. Mission Impossible.

    To most Chinese, Tiananmen = Close Shave.

  297. The reason why the Chinese would never agree to elections is because it would just provide the easy opening for the 1% to infiltrate China the way Russia was infiltrated to be quartered and consumed by the globalists and oligarchs.

    That’s a lot of faith in humanity to have, isn’t it? Believing your election-proof leaders will always be benevolent, never plunder the nation’s wealth and not crush you to dust for publicly opposing them.

    (Link below) Chinese police dance alongside torture chairs on china’s version of tiktok

  298. Yee says:

    Commentator Mike,

    “China will force concessions to take over territory, like in the case of this Sri Lanka port, getting a lease of 198 years, twice as long as the British had on Hong Kong!”

    How is leasing a port, or even owning it, the same thing as taking a colony? A port in Sri Lanka is subject to jurisdiction of Sri Lanka laws, while Qing empire had no jurisdiction over Hongkong.

    Singapore state-owned corporation Temasek owns plenty of assets in China, does that mean Singapore “force concessions to take over territory” in China?

    You know, in other parts of the world – Europe, Australua, Brazil, China can lease ports without having to build them first.

    It’s amazing to witness the power of US propaganda.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride, Rdm
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  299. denk says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Will the Tiananmen Square Tank Guy be available for autograph signing?

    The likes of KKK , sick of life have long been banished to my bozo file.

    Being in generous mood today,
    i’ll make one more try to educate the incorrigible bozo

    ‘TAM massacre’ has long been debunked by Gregory Clark more than two decades ago.
    Even if you missed it, there were multiple expose’ by RON UNZ, Godfree Roberts, Max Parry,
    Larry Romanoff right here.

    THERE AINT NO TAM MASSACRE , NOT IN TAM, NOT IN THE ALLEYS.

    THERE WAS A CRACK DOWN ON VIOLENT RIOTS, JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN TIBET 2008, XINJIANG 2009

    TAM IS CLASSIC CIA/MI6 PYSOP
    FOMENT UNREST, INSTIGATE VIOLENCE,…
    DEMONISE, DEMONISE.

    Are you one of the ‘I dont believe one world from our state dept except…when its about China‘ brigade,’ ?

  300. @Anon

    You sound a little uptight and prickish about a guy stating some (slightly, but not really) exaggeratedly fun ideals about reform.

    I mean, what’s your stance besides being a bitch about someone else’s hopes? Jesus, man.

  301. @Malla

    I’m intrigued myself. Britain did pay reparations (technically). I’m personally more a fan of just saying “everyone screwed up (especially is) and suffered, and we’re calling it even. Sorry.”

  302. @Yee

    “force concessions to take over territory”

    Notice how whitie Mikey does NOT make comparison with North America, where the whities truly “forced concessions to take over territories”– and HUGE territories at that!!!

  303. Anon[994] • Disclaimer says:

    @Boomorkell

    Not sure if I’m the Anon you’re addressing, but I’m not Hopeless at all about the US.

    If you read my post carefully, I meant it took China 150 years and 20 million lives to get rid of the utterly corrupt Manchurian ruling class, the opium mongerers both British and Chinese, the mass murdering torturing Japanese, the corrupt, co-opted servile later Nationalists under General Chiang, then a gruesome Korean War to fight off the cold psychopath Gen. McArthur.

    A lot of good courageous Chinese died to take back sovereignty.

    Among these were at least a hundred families of Kennedys – while Mao was a peasant, he was placed at the top by the early Marxist intelligentsia who were from old illustrious families, most of whom were sent to Europe and Japan for tertiary education. The brightest and the best from Gen. Chinag’s Nationalists defected to the Communists throughout the civil war, many of whom made the ultimate sacrifice.

    The caliber of such men in the early Communist Party is reflected in the example of Premier Zhou. Ask any Chinese old enough to remember – when news of his passing was announced, every Chinese burst into tears. There are no Communists or Nationalists or Whateverists, there are only those Chinese who carry the torch of a 5000 year old civilization and those Chinese that don’t.

    You’re not getting the full story from the MSM.

    It’s early yet in your own struggle, and not even a 0.0000000001% of thinking Americans willing to put in what it takes to set the country on the right track so far. This is why it’s Mission Impossible. Railing at Jews, Blacks or Gays won’t get you far, neither will stocking up food, gold, violence or firing your guns in the streets. Tbh the rest of the world do want the US to succeed, in contrast to the fear-mongering about Eurasia vs Eastasia vs Oceania from your traitors, politicians and MSM. You need at least a few hundred families of Kennedys and waves and waves of defections of the people and finally a peaceful negotiation for an exit plan before you can recover sovereignty. Look carefully at China’s history to have a realistic timeline and to understand what it takes.

  304. denk says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Will the Tiananmen Square Tank Guy be available for autograph signing?

    In communist countries you see what is allowed to be seen.

    Gregory Clark, the first one to expose the TAM fraud, has been asking the question …

    How come none of the pics that show buses , armor cars burning, soldiers burned to charcoal, soldiers hanged on a tree….ever made it to any of the western MSM, while they keep shoving that tank man pic to your face ?

    sick of life

    In communist countries you see what is allowed to be seen

    Oh these five liars zOmbies, you dunno how fucking pathetic you are !!!

  305. Rdm says:

    In every articles on China, this is what I observed over the years.

    Those who can reiterate facts over prejudice, logics over propaganda, reality over fantasy are the ones that tend to be on pro-China side. On the other hand, those who relies massively on emotions/propaganda/prejudice tend to be anti-China.

    There’s nothing wrong with being anti- or pro-something as long as your belief upholds and can relay your conviction on others. If you are pro-American and truly believe that the country is doing extraordinarily well, there’s nothing wrong with your belief.

    The problem is those pro-Americans are the ones who keep spewing out propaganda, disinformation without any facts. When the push comes to the shove, they fail to deliver facts and resort to fantasy. It’s not only here in Unz, it’s everywhere, MSM, youtube, twitter, you name it. The argument ultimately leads to name calling and worst of all, “communism” retort. It’s just mind boggling and if this represents the debating skills of most pro-Americans, it not only tells us the dwindling capacity of their cognitive ability but also the declining nature of American education.

    The disinformation is huge. The propaganda is so deep that anything you say good about China is automatically considered as a threat to America and needs to be fought with any means. The hubris, the arrogance accumulated over 400 years from European dominance cannot be fought with facts. If the facts deem to destroy the said dominance, they will destroy the facts. If the Chinese people are happy under their government, westerners will destroy such facts and completely fabricate the existence of such happiness.

    I’ve been in Asia, including China way before 2000. In my experience, Asians news never badmouthed Western nations. They never did and they never will. Granted, you have tabloid here and there. But there was never like speaking ill of Westerners’ choices. They just mind their own business. For western nations, it’s a constant concern for them. Japan aging population, China 1 child policy, cultural revolution, famine, you name it. It’s all atrocious policy and bad governance of Asians. It’s all in bad light.

    Even the most viable, commendable nation in South East Asia, that came out top on everything; education, finance, HDI with yet minimal natural resources, Singapore founded by LKY, you’d find it hard to imagine such a leader exist in the Western world. There’s no one comes to mind. Without firing a single bullet, colonizing other territories, setting up military bases around the world, the government did a stellar job at lifting up 5 million people and paved the foundation for DXP special economic zone back in 80s.

    There’s no such leader in the western world. There’s no leader from the West who had built a tiny nation of their own, without colonization, without bringing mercenaries and killing indigenous people. Even the then Dutch Empire had far reached to Africa. But lo and behold. LKY was considered as “benevolent authoritarian” by Western MSM.

    This represents a huge dichotomy between the East and the West. Now with China rise, western nations are struggling with the coping mechanism. All they need is a simple dose of taming their “hubris and arrogance”.

    This piece represents the current narrative on China by an Egyptian.

    https://www.quora.com/profile/Ismail-Bashmori

    His post on “What do you think about China?” is the best observation I’ve read in years.

    • Thanks: antibeast
    • Replies: @Smith
    , @d dan
  306. Smith says:

    Related:
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1228278.shtml

    Global Times staff desires a new Kissinger, shameful.

    I’m surprised they haven’t made another article where they want another Nixon to shake hands with, capitalist roader scums.

  307. @Godfree Roberts

    Almost all governments are involved with senior Catholic clerical appointments and have always been.

    No, that hasn’t been true since the Catholic monarchies of Europe were all toppled. And even then the Pope always had the final say. The Chinese got involved in selecting bishops after the CIA took control of the Vatican in the late 70s and turned it into an instrument of political subversion

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  308. Smith says:
    @Rdm

    I’m not pro-USA or pro-China, what do you say about me?

    And LKY is a freaking capitalist colonizer, there’s a shitton of mini-states, tax-haven like Singapore in Europe, you have what? Switzerland, Liechtenstein, the bunch of Baltic statelets. These states serve as trade hubs or financial centers or imperial outposts for capitalists that actually don’t produce anything.

    Not to mention LKY didn’t build it up alone, he built on the backs of imported chinese coolies and british imperialists, which is why to this day it has an US base.

    The fact modern chinese are increasing falling back to LKY is suspect, perhaps they really betrayed the revolution set by Lenin/Stalin and now has become capitalist roaders like Deng and LKY.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  309. Rdm says:
    @Smith

    You are anti-X, especially anti-China.

    If my memory serves me right, you’re a little Ngyuen who can’t see the global politics but likes to contribute your vision after playing Xbox for 24 hours. There’s a time and place. If you can’t contribute much, silence is the best.

    As LKY once said, “They can spew out ideology all day long if they want. At the end of the day, it’s your life and mine at stake here.”, I won’t be surprised that DXP took it to his heart and changed the phrase to cat and mouse narrative. What these two chatted behind the curtain can only be imagined. I venture to say China and Pak relationship can also be traced back to LKY involvement back in the days when he was generously escorted by PAI 10 F-16 fighter jets to Islamabad.

    There are key moments in any history that completely changed the course of the nation. It’s not days or months long. It can be years long.

    By the way, there were no Chinese colonizers around the world when LKY was building the nation in modern time. There were only Chinese coolies. But there were European Empires when a landlocked Switzerland was siphoning off the resources via financial means.

    Yes, LKY was a colonizer who built the nation on the backs of Chinese coolies. I don’t normally rely on IQ when commenting. But sometimes going over the history, culture, people behavior takes a toll on me to convey my message. But here it is. Once your IQ reaches 3 digits, you can intelligently argue facts.

    • Replies: @Smith
  310. Smith says:
    @Rdm

    How am I anti-China? Because I speak the truth about it?

    And yes, there are chinese colonizers at the time, the Qing allows it, and the brit brings them over.

    If the british imperialists haven’t brought up the chinese coolies there, there would be no LKY. And there wouldn’t be an US base in the middle of the South East Asia sea. And Singapore literally siphons resources, people from Malaysia, China and Indonesia, it does not exist in a vacuum.

    My IQ is 3 digits btw, and you cannot shut me up from the truth. You bring up a shitty example, and you deserve to get countered to it.

    Your “global politics” and “achievement” is just a smokescreen for imperialism.

  311. China took Hong Kong while the West argues about how many genders there are and if math is racist.
    amazing!

    CHINA VIRUS
    in case you forgot where this came from.

    • Troll: antibeast
  312. @New Jersey

    Pope Benedict Thanked a CIA Head Sure to be Indicted for Crimes Against Humanity
    April 9, 2013 by jay janson | Op/Ed | 1043 Views
    Panetta said the Pope said to him, “Thank you for helping to protect the world,”

    The Catholic Church is a foreign power with active agents throughout the USA and elsewhere. There is not a chance in hell that the Vatican will be permitted to appoint senior clergy, here or elsewhere, unless they meet with the approval of the State.

    Why did Cardinal Mindszenty need to seek sanctuary in the US Embassy in a passionately Catholic country, do you think? And why did the embassy harbor him for so long?

    The Church, a spiritualized successor to the Roman Empire, still chose its popes from the Roman nobility (as conservative a bunch as one can imagine) when I was an altar boy. Their abandonment of that practice coincided with its decline, incidentally.

  313. @Sick of Orcs

    To whom do you attribute the fact that there are more hungry children, drug addicts, suicides and executions, more homeless, poor, and imprisoned people in America than in China?

  314. d dan says:
    @Rdm

    “… western nations are struggling with the coping mechanism. All they need is a simple dose of taming their “hubris and arrogance”.”

    ‘taming their “hubris and arrogance” ‘ is definitely needed as a first step (already an extremely difficult step for 90% of them), but what they needed is much more than that – serious soul searching, reform, re-education, and even revolutions, …

    Chinese took over 150 years to turn around their situation by going through every painful steps, multiple times, under severe external aggressions and much more unfavorite conditions. Recent Chinese TV series [觉醒年代 ] “Awakening Era” retells one of the tumultuous time from 1915-1921 period when young Chinese debated the future of China’ cultural and political direction. It had many thought-provoking exchanges and ideas that are relevant to the West today. I don’t know whether there is any English sub-title one, but America needs their own version of the “Awakening Era”, which I don’t see coming.

    Thanks for the link with Ismail-Bashmori.

  315. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    ‘Simon Leys’ was one of those useful idiots who poisoned the Australian well and who is still revered there today.

  316. Smith says:
    @Anon

    Oh wait, there’s not supposed to be a middle class in communism.

    There’s not supposed to be any “class” at all. When did this China communist turn into this “middle class” ideology, which is what americans were shilling in the 50s?

    I’m surprised no one has mentioned this.

  317. @Sick of Orcs

    I’m literally lying in bed next to my Chinese girlfriend… in America…

    As a military officer, I’ve had to tally do a 180 on my views of Chinese culture. The shit they’ve pulled off with intense nationalism, tightly managed socialism, and mercantilism is insane.

    The middle class is exploding, luxury brands like Coach, LV, Prada, etc… are commonplace.

    Point is you’ve got an outdated boomers view on China. I know you’re a boomer because nobody younger gives a fuck about communists.

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
  318. @Z-man

    China just invented the worlds fastest quantum computer. Do you actually think they give a fuck about F16s?

    • Replies: @Z-man
  319. Z-man says:
    @Bubblehead

    Listen bubble head, the Chinese copy everything. The electronics and even just the aero structure in the latest F 16’s are still more advanced than anything the Chinks have and they’ll be happy to get their hands on one.

  320. @Z-man

    Racist imbecile. No wonder the USA is so fucked.

    • LOL: Z-man
  321. @Smith

    It takes a while to get to communism. It doesn’t happen overnight. The Chinese version is different from Western types, too. As you would expect from an intellectual meritocracy, the Chinese ruling elites have recognised the extremity of ecological damage wrought by industrialisation and are determined to create an ‘ecological civilization’. Anthropogenic climate destabilisation deniers, in particular, are nowhere seen in Chinese public life, or are where they belong-insane asylums.

    • Replies: @Smith
  322. Smith says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    China is already 2nd of the world in wealth (or perhaps 1st).

    You don’t need even that much wealth for communism, you need policies. Look at how Cuba is doing it, and Vietnam is trying to.

    I don’t care what chinese communism is, I care what communism is, and it’s about providing a society without rich vs poor, not this middle class “American dream” horseshit.

    I used to not believe in communism, and I do have doubt about a government-less society or even classless society, but it’s certainly possible to make a society without billionaires and beggars.

  323. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    Those ‘middle-class’ policies are designed to encourage Chinese society to participate in the ownership and management of their own social enterprises, instead of just a handful of large enterprises owned and managed by the State or Capital. The key concept here is the role of Social Capital in social enterprises in contrast to the role of State Capital in Socialist enterprises or Market Capital in Capitalist enterprises. The goal is to create a ‘middle-class’ of social entrepreneurs who own and manage their own social enterprises which is the only way for Chinese society to own and manage the fruits of their own social Capital and Labor.

  324. Smith says:

    @antibeast

    Social enterpreneurs is american horseshit. You hear about these start-up companies, american concept in order to pay little while making as much as possible while leeching off government infrastructure (Uber).

    The USSR didn’t rise due to an innovated “middle class” bullshit and neither does China or Vietnam.

    It was straight State-backed companies fully staffed and fairly-paid workers who don’t have to search and compete with each other for job.

    This is actually the same for Japan until the companies grow bigger than Japan’s government and they become subservient to them. This is the starting to happen to China, like the recent stunt with Didi.

    Private companies have no loyalty to the people or the country, they just want to make as much profit as possible.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  325. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    Private companies have no loyalty to the people or the country, they just want to make as much profit as possible.

    It depends on what you mean by ‘private’ companies. For example, family-owned companies qualify as ‘social enterprises’ because the people who own and run those companies belong to the same family who serve a community of which they are a part of. That is their social capital.

    Yeah, I agree with you that Uber, Airbnb, Facebook, etc. leech off the public by profiting from 1) illegal taxi services using private vehicles for hire, 2) illegal hotel services using private homes for hire, and 3) illegal spying service using private data for sale, respectively. But they’re Capitalist enterprises owned and managed by their Capitalist investors for the sole purpose of making a profit.

    China is cracking down on its tech giants like Alibaba, Didi, etc. for illegal anti-competitive business practices using their platform ownership to enforce market dominance. Ideally, market economies are supposed to promote business competition so that lots of companies can compete to offer better products/services to the public. But that’s not the case with tech giants today which have gotten so big that their platforms effectively serve as a monopolies to prevent competition.

    • Replies: @Smith
  326. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    The obvious solution to these problems is China nationalizing Didi, Alibaba and other services that should be public-run in the first place. The fact they are chinese corporations doesn’t mean they are loyal to their host country.

    Still, talking about that, Vietnam has much bigger problems considering its ride-sharing market is nearly monopolized by Grab, not even a vietnamese company. Maybe Vietnam can nationalize Grab VN since the network infrastructure is already there.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  327. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    Nationalizing private companies especially foreign-invested Capitalist enterprises like Didi, Alibaba, Grab, etc. is not the solution because doing so would scare off foreign capital from investing in emerging countries like Vietnam. What is needed are State-owned VC/PE firms which can co-invest in local Capitalist enterprises. And yes, Grab is not even Vietnamese but Singaporean. So what Vietnam should do is to create its own version of Grab by nurturing its own State-owned VC eco-system which can fund Vietnam-based tech startups. By the way, Vietnam also needs to cultivate its own class of local Capitalists who can drive its own private sector, instead of relying on foreign Capitalists. That way, the State can maintain control of local Capitalists within Vietnam which is not possible with foreign Capitalists. This is what China is doing today with RMB funds now surpassing USD funds in the VC funding rounds of its tech startups.

    State-owned Socialist enterprises do best in the public sector such as power, energy, railroads, telecoms, etc. because they are organized to provide public goods/services at low-cost to the public. But privately-owned Capitalist enterprises have a role to play in the private sector such as consumer goods/services and tech industries because they are organized to provide private goods/services at profit to consumers or enterprises. These two types of enterprises are necessary for a modern economy to function because not all sectors can be served by State-owned Socialist enterprises. The other type of enterprises is the Social enterprise which are family-owned enterprises providing a social good/services to a community such as restaurants, beauty salons, hardware stores, coffee shops, tea houses, etc. These types of Social enterprises form the economic base of a community, with Social Capital being the organizing principle of such Social enterprises. The problem of the USA is that it lacks such Social enterprises as Main Street USA today is run by Corporate America in the form of McDonald’s, Starbucks, KFC, Walmart, Home Depot, etc. There is no sense of community in Main Street USA as its mom-and-pop stores have been decimated by Capitalist-funded Corporations.

    Vietnam should promote Social enterprises by providing technical, economic and financial assistance so that Vietnamese families can organize their own mom-and-pop shops. Corporate giants should be capped by imposing a quota on the number of outlets in a certain location.

    • Replies: @Smith
  328. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    Lot of nonsense.

    We don’t need a class of capitalists or enterpreneurs, we need companies that work for the country. This can be in form of SOE or private company that run with SOE (every big foreign company is tied with a local company, which gives enough leeway for them to be controlled or nationalized).

    You are indeed brainwashed by American enterpreneurship propaganda with muh private innovation.

    Again, look at how Cuba does it.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  329. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    Even you have to admit that private companies are needed by SOEs; that means local Capitalists under the control of the State. The problem with Cuba is very different than Vietnam because Cuba does not have the leeway to attract foreign investment unlike Vietnam. For foreign investors need local partners which can be either SOEs or local Capitalists.

    • Replies: @Smith
  330. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    Cuba is embargoed, but still maintains a relatively good standard of life.

    Their example should be studied more on how exactly that is it done.

    Foreign investment is a double edged sword, which is why Vietnam maintains the correct approach that in order to have the Vietnam market, the foreign company needs to partner with a local (government-controlled) company thus their infrastructure can be easily retaken. The capitalist is gonna sell us the rope to hang them.

    And no, we don’t specifically NEED foreign investment. Gonna lose a lot of special doodads, but at the end of the day, we NEED food, industry and infrastructure, not special doodads.

  331. Went to a Nationals Baseball game couple days ago and a shooting broke out—

  332. @Z-man

    Where is the USA Mars mission today?

    • Replies: @Z-man
  333. @Rahan

    “Pardon me Gomez –but I am confused. There are 5.000 new brands of Christianity in USA today but there is supposedly the only one true Catholic church????? Personally–I think any church is Christian if it has a big collection taken Saturday evening or Sunday morning and tithes set at 30%. ” and I must admit Fisher Biden knows his book—backwards !!!!!

  334. Z-man says:
    @GomezAdddams

    That’s just a function of priorities and budgets.

  335. Smith says:

    Interesting to note that only Xi wears the Mao suit, the rest is in western suits.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
$
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Andrew Anglin Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The JFK Assassination and the 9/11 Attacks?
Analyzing the History of a Controversial Movement
Our Reigning Political Puppets, Dancing to Invisible Strings