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The Dancing Israelis: FBI Docs Shed Light on Apparent Mossad Foreknowledge of 9/11 Attacks
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As another 9/11 anniversary comes and goes, many questions surrounding the events remained unanswered. MintPress brings you a freshly updated article, originally published in May, 2019 that seeks answers to some of those questions.

NEW YORK — For nearly two decades, one of the most overlooked and little known arrests made in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks was that of the so-called “High Fivers,” or the “Dancing Israelis.” However, new information released by the FBI on May 7 has brought fresh scrutiny to the possibility that the “Dancing Israelis,” at least two of whom were known Mossad operatives, had prior knowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center.

Shortly after 8:46 a.m. on the day of the attacks, just minutes after the first plane struck the World Trade Center, five men — later revealed to be Israeli nationals — had positioned themselves in the parking lot of the Doric Apartment Complex in Union City, New Jersey, where they were seen taking pictures and filming the attacks while also celebrating the destruction of the towers and “high fiving” each other. At least one eyewitness interviewed by the FBI had seen the Israelis’ van in the parking lot as early as 8:00 a.m. that day, more than 40 minutes prior to the attack. The story received coverage in U.S. mainstream media at the time but has since been largely forgotten.

The men — Sivan Kurzberg, Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Yaron Shimuel and Omar Marmari — were subsequently apprehended by law enforcement and claimed to be Israeli tourists on a “working holiday” in the United States where they were employed by a moving company, Urban Moving Systems. Upon his arrest, Sivan Kurzberg told the arresting officer, “We are Israeli; we are not your problem. Your problems are our problems, The Palestinians are the problem.”

For years, the official story has been that these individuals, while they had engaged in “immature” behavior by celebrating and being “visibly happy” in their documenting of the attacks, had no prior knowledge of the attack. However, newly released FBI copies of the photos taken by the five Israelis strongly suggest that these individuals had prior knowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center. The copies of the photos were obtained via a FOIA request made by a private citizen.

A high-quality photo, top, shows the area the dancing Israelis were staged. Credit | Panamza
A high-quality photo, top, shows the area the dancing Israelis were staged. Credit | Panamza

According to a former high-ranking American intelligence official who spoke to the Jewish Daily Forward in 2002, the FBI concluded in its investigation that the five Israelis arrested “were conducting a Mossad surveillance mission and that their employer, Urban Moving Systems of Weehawken, NJ, served as a front.” At least two of the men arrested were determined to have direct links to the Mossad after their names appeared in a CIA-FBI database of foreign intelligence operatives. According to one of their lawyers, one of the men, Paul Kurzberg, had previously worked for the Mossad in another country prior to arriving in the United States. Another of those arrested, Oded Ellner, subsequently stated on Israeli TV that the five Israelis had been in New York at the time “to document the event,” meaning the attack on the World Trade Center.

The FOIA release of the photos is notable because responses to prior FOIA requests to the Department of Justice, which oversees the FBI, had previously claimed that all of the photos taken by the Israeli nationals had been destroyed in January 2014. The photos themselves are heavily redacted, making it impossible to see the Israelis’ facial expressions. However, previously declassified yet heavily redacted FBI reports state that the Israelis are “visibly happy” in nearly every photo, even when the burning towers are in the background. The photos released are also not original copies and instead appear to be photocopies of photocopies of the original pictures. In addition, of the original 76 pictures developed by authorities from the camera in the Israelis’ possession, only 14 were released.

Based on the impressions of the French website Panamza and subsequently MintPress, three of these photos — despite the heavy redaction and poor quality — appear damning. Since 2001, even though the photos were never released until now, it had been known that one of the Israelis arrested — Sivan Kurzberg — was seen in a photo “holding a lighted lighter in the foreground, with the smoldering wreckage [of the twin towers] in the background,” according to Steven Noah Gordon, then-lawyer for the five Israelis, as cited in a New York Times report from November 2001.

The picture of Kurzberg with the lit lighter appears to be photo #5 in the new FOIA release. Yet, the picture released includes a visible date of September 10, 2001, the day before the attacks, as do two other photos — images #7 and #8 in the collection — whereas all other photos with dates show only the month and the year (9 ‘01). The FOIA release did not provide any information as to the apparent discrepancy in dates.

While this could be explained away as the camera in question being programmed with a slightly inaccurate date, that doesn’t seem to be the case for two reasons. First, only three out of the 14 pictures appear to carry that date and, second, previously declassified FBI reports report an eyewitness adamantly stating that Sivan Kurzberg had visited the Doric Apartments on September 10, 2001 at around 3 p.m. with at least one other man, with whom he was conversing in a foreign language, and had identified himself as a “construction worker” to a tenant (page 61 of declassified FBI report).

Sivan Kurzberg holds a lit lighter with the Manhattan skyline in the background. The date September 10, 2001 visible in the bottom right corner | Photo #5
Sivan Kurzberg holds a lit lighter with the Manhattan skyline in the background. The date September 10, 2001 visible in the bottom right corner | Photo #5

In addition, the FBI report noted that a van from Urban Moving Systems, the company that employed the five Israelis at the time of their arrest, was present and was involved in moving a tenant out of the complex on September 10 and that the movers all had foreign accents. Thus, images 5, 7 and 8 may have been taken at the same complex a day before the attacks.

This raises two possibilities. First, that there are two images of Kurzberg with a lit lighter in front of the towers, one taken before the attack and one taken at the time of the attack, and that the FBI released only one of them. Second, that Kurzberg took the picture with the lighter only the day before the attack and his lawyer misrepresented the contents of the photo to the New York Times. Given that the background of the photo — particularly the state of the towers — is indiscernible in the recently released photo, it is difficult to determine which is the case.

One of the Israelis points to what is presumably the World Trade Center, in Manhattan on September 11, 2001 | Photo #2
One of the Israelis points to what is presumably the World Trade Center, in Manhattan on September 11, 2001 | Photo #2

However, other analysts have interpreted the photos quite differently. For instance, Ryan Dawson, formerly of Newsbud, cited the police report that details the clothing of some of the Israelis at the time of their arrest and used that to link identities to the redacted faces in the pictures. He believes that the Israeli holding the lighter is not Sivan Kurzberg, but his brother Paul. Meanwhile, the person who filed the FOIA request that resulted in the picture’s release, who wished to remain anonymous, thought that Omer Marmari was more likely to be the man with the lighter.

Both have stated that all pictures were likely to have been taken on the day of the attacks. One reason given for the appearance of the date of September 10, 2001 in only some of the photos is due to the heavy editing, which rendered it invisible in the remaining photos. Dawson asserted that the incorrect date was due to the Israelis’ panicking when they were pulled over and attempting to edit the date and hour on the camera upon the arrest in an effort to hide the evidence. Another explanation put forth is that it was the result of a camera configuration error.

Given the highly redacted and edited nature of the pictures, what is most notable of all is the fact of what is not seen (i.e. edited out) in the photos. Clearly, there was an interest in preventing the public from seeing the state of the towers at the time of the photos were taken and also in preventing the public from seeing the facial expressions of the Israelis, despite it being known from the FBI report that they are “visibly happy” and “jovial.” The state of the towers being edited out is particularly telling, especially considering that

As to whether any of the Israelis knew of the attacks in advance, the relevant section of the FBI report that asks “1. Did the Israeli nationals have foreknowledge of the events at WTC and were they filming the events prior to and in anticipation of the explosion?” is notably redacted in its entirety, suggesting that the FBI did not determine the answer to that question to be an emphatic “no.”

One of the 9/11 loose-ends coverups?

If images 5 and 7 were indeed taken the day prior to the attack, the question then becomes why the FBI officially concluded that the arrested Israelis had no prior knowledge of the attacks? One report from ABC News dated June 2002 suggests that the Bush administration intervened in the investigation. That report states that “Israeli and U.S. government officials worked out a deal — and after 71 days, the five Israelis were taken out of jail, put on a plane, and deported back home [to Israel].” If the Bush administration had cut a deal with Israel’s government to cover up the incident, it certainly would not have been the first time a U.S. presidential administration had done so on Israel’s behalf.

Further evidence that higher-ups in the administration intervened is the fact that then-Attorney General John Ashcroft personally signed off on the detainees’ release. Upon his entering the private sector as a lobbyist and consultant in 2005, the Israeli government became one of Ashcroft’s first clients.

A cover-up certainly seems to have happened to some extent, between the destruction of records of the investigation and the fact that official conclusions of the investigation do not add up. In the latter case, the FBI — in a file dated September 24, 2001– officially stated that they “determined that none of the Israelis were actively engaged in clandestine intelligence activities in the United States.” However, that conclusion was directly contradicted by U.S. officials a year later and by the fact that Israel’s own government subsequently acknowledged that the five Israelis had indeed been involved in “clandestine intelligence activities in the United States.”

In addition, the new FOIA release of the photos suggests that another FBI conclusion — that “none of the pictures developed from the film found inside the 35-mm camera depicted the twin towers prior to the attack” — was inaccurate. This may explain why the images released via the recent FOIA request were heavily edited leaving details in the background greatly obscured, making it impossible to determine whether the photos were taken prior to or during the attacks based solely on the state of the towers.

“Tourists” with cash-stuffed socks, box cutters, and explosives?

Beyond the photos and observed activities of the so-called “Dancing Israelis,” it is worth revisiting several other suspicious circumstances linked to their arrest that clearly show that the men in question were hardly the “tourists” they had claimed to be. One often cited example is the fact that one of the men, Oded Ellner, had a “white sock-like sack filled with $4,700 in cash,” as well as maps of the city with certain places highlighted, and box cutters. In addition, the van in which the Israelis were arrested was “oddly” lacking “equipment typically used in a moving company’s daily duties,” according to the FBI, and residue of explosives was found in the van.

Of the explosive residue, the declassified FBI report states:

A search of the van and individuals was conducted at the time of the vehicle stop. The vehicle was also searched by a trained bomb-sniffing dog which yielded a positive result for the presence of explosive traces. Swabs of the vehicle’s interior were taken, and those samples were sent to the FBI laboratory for further analysis. Final results are still pending.”

In total, the FBI reported that four items related to explosives were found in the ban and are labeled in the report as “Fabric Sample (Explosive Residue),” “Control Swabs – SA [ – ] Gloves,” “Control Swabs – (Bomb Suits),” and “Blanket Samples For Explosive Residue.” In addition, a VHS tape and some still photographs found in the van “were sent to Laboratory Examiner [ redacted ] (Explosives Unit).”

In addition to the strange nature of some of the Israelis’ possessions in the van and on their person, the company that employed them — Urban Moving Systems — was of special interest to the FBI, which concluded that the company was likely a “fraudulent operation.” Upon a search of the company’s premises, the FBI noted that “little evidence of a legitimate business operation was found.” The FBI report also noted that there were an “unusually large number of computers relative to the number of employees for such a fairly small business” and that “further investigation identified several pseudo-names or aliases associated with Urban Moving Systems and its operations.”

The FBI presence at the Urban Moving Systems search site drew the attention of the local media and was later reported on both television and in the local press. A former Urban Moving Systems employee later contacted the Newark Division with information indicating that he had quit his employment with Urban Moving Systems as a result of the high amount of anti-American sentiment present among Urban’s employees. The former employee stated that an Israeli employee of Urban had even once remarked, “Give us twenty years and we’ll take over your media and destroy your country” (page 37 of the FBI report).

The FBI returned to search the premises of Urban Moving Systems a month later, but by that time found:

The building and all of its contents had been abandoned by…the owner of Urban Moving Systems. This [was] apparently being done to avoid criminal prosecution after the 09/11/2001 arrest of five of his employees and subsequent seizure of his office computer systems by members of the FBI-NK on or around 09/13/2001.”

The company’s owner — Dominik Otto Suter, an Israeli citizen — had fled to Israel on September 14, 2001, two days after he had been questioned by the FBI. The FBI told ABC News that “Urban Moving may have been providing cover for an Israeli intelligence operation.” Surprisingly, since at least 2016, Suter has been living in the San Francisco Bay Area, where he works for a contractor for major tech companies like Google and Microsoft. According to the public records database Intelius, in 2006 and 2007 Suter also worked for a telecommunications company — Granite Telecommunications — that works for the U.S. military and several other U.S. government agencies.

In addition to Urban Moving Systems, another moving company, Classic International Movers, became of interest in connection with the investigation into the “Dancing Israelis,” which led to the arrest and detention of four Israeli nationals who worked for this separate moving company. The FBI’s Miami Division had alerted the Newark Division that Classic International Movers was believed to have been used by one of the 19 alleged 9/11 hijackers before the attack, and one of the “Dancing Israelis” had the number for Classic International Movers written in a notebook that was seized at the time of his arrest. The report further states that one of the Israelis of Classic International Movers who was arrested “was visibly disturbed by the Agents’ questioning regarding his personal email account.”

A crowded dance floor

While the case of the “Dancing Israelis” has long been treated as an outlier in the aftermath of September 11, what is often overlooked is the fact that hundreds of Israeli nationals were arrested in the aftermath of the attacks.

According to a FOX News report from December 2001, 60 Israelis were apprehended or detained after September 11, with most deported, and a total of 140 Israelis were arrested and detained in all of 2001 by federal authorities. That report claimed that the arrests, ostensibly including the “Dancing Israelis,” were in relation to an investigation of “an organized [Israeli] intelligence gathering operation designed to ‘penetrate government facilities.’”

The report also added that most of those arrested, in addition to having served in the IDF, had “intelligence expertise” and worked for Israeli companies that specialized in wiretapping. Some of those detained were also active members of the Israeli military; and several detainees, including the “Dancing Israelis,” had failed polygraph tests when asked if they had been surveilling the U.S. government.

A key aspect of that report, compiled by journalist Carl Cameron, also states that federal investigators widely suspected that Israeli intelligence had prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks. In the report, Cameron stated:

The Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ‘tie-ins’ but when asked for details he flatly refused to describe them saying: ‘Evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about the evidence that has been gathered. It is classified information.’”

One exchange between Cameron and host Brit Hume included in the report is particularly telling:

HUME: “Carl, what about this question of advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on 9/11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli agents may have known something?”

CAMERON: “Well it’s very explosive information obviously and there is a great deal of evidence that they say they have collected. None of it necessarily conclusive. It’s more when they put it all together a big question they say is, ‘How could they have not known?’ — almost a direct quote, Brit.”

However, it is essential to note that Israeli intelligence did attempt to warn the U.S. government at least twice beginning in August 2001 as did the intelligence agencies of many other countries, including France, the UK, Egypt, Russia and Jordan. Yet, no people connected to any other intelligence agency other than Israel were caught celebrating the attacks as they took place in the area nor were accused by mainstream media of operating a large spy ring within the U.S. at the time. One theory to explain this discrepancy is that the Mossad elements of which the “Dancing Israelis” and other alleged Israeli spies could have been part of a specific section of Israeli intelligence that were acting independently as a rogue agency. Such a possibility is not unusual given that divisions of or groups within the CIA have been known to “go rogue” on several occasions.

9/11 as a big — and acknowledged — Israeli win

If the “Dancing Israelis”, and more broadly the Mossad and the Israeli government, had foreknowledge of September 11, why would they remain silent and not attempt to warn the American government or public of the coming attacks? In the case of the “Dancing Israelis,” why would Israelis celebrate such an attack?

One of the detained “Dancing Israelis,” Omer Marmari, told police the following about why he viewed the September 11 attacks in a positive light:

Israel now has hope that the world will now understand us. Americans are naïve and America is easy to get inside. There are not a lot of checks in America. And now America will be tougher about who gets into their country.”

While Marmari’s statement may suggest one reason some of the “Dancing Israelis” were so “visibly happy” in their photographs, there are also other statements made by top Israeli politicians that suggest why the Israeli government and its intelligence agency declined to act on apparent foreknowledge of the attack.

When asked, on the day of the 9/11 attacks, how the attacks would affect American-Israeli relations, Benjamin Netanyahu — the current Israeli prime minister — told the New York Times that “It’s very good,” before quickly adding “Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.” He then predicted, much as Marmari had, that the attacks would “strengthen the bond between our two peoples, because we’ve experienced terror over so many decades, but the United States has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror.”

Netanyahu, in a candid conversation recorded in 2001, also echoed Marmari’s claim that Americans are naïve. In that recording, Netanyahu said:

I know what America is. America is something that can easily be moved. Moved to the right direction. … They won’t get in our way. They won’t get in our way… 80 percent of the Americans support us. It’s absurd.”

In addition, also on the day of the September 11 attacks, Netanyahu — who at the time was not in political office — held a press conference in which he claimed that he had predicted the attacks on the World Trade Center by “militant Islam” in his 1995 book, Fighting Terrorism: How Democracies Can Defeat Domestic and International Terrorism. In that book, Netanyahu had posited that Iranian-linked “militants” would set off a nuclear bomb in the basement of the World Trade Center.

During his press conference on the day of the attacks, Netanyahu also asserted that the 9/11 attacks would be a turning point for America and compared them to the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor. Netanyahu’s statement echoes the infamous line from the “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” document authored by the neoconservative think tank, the Project for a New Ameican Century (PNAC). That line reads. “Further, the process of transformation [towards a neo-Reaganite foreign policy and hyper-militarism], even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor.”

Then again, years later In 2008, the Israeli newspaper Maariv reported that Netanyahu had stated that the September 11 attacks had greatly benefited Israel. He was quoted as saying: “We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.”

Indeed, it goes without saying that the aftermath of 9/11 — which involved the U.S. leading a destructive effort throughout the Middle East — has indeed benefited Israel. Many of the U.S.’ post-9/11 “nation-building” efforts have notably mirrored the policy paper “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” which was authored by American neoconservatives — PNAC members among them — for Netanyahu’s first term as prime minister.

That document calls for the creation of a “New Middle East” by, among other things, “weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria” and “removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right.” As is known now, both of those main objectives have since come to pass, each with strong Israeli involvement.

Update | This article was updated to include and accommodate alternative analyses of the newly released photos as well information on Israeli intelligence warnings to the U.S. prior to September 11, 2001 that came to the attention of MintPress after initial its publication.

Feature photo | Four of the Israeli nationals arrested for “puzzling behavior” during the September 11 attacks are seen casually posing together in front of the Manhattan skyline while the September 11 attacks were in progress | Photo #1

Whitney Webb is a MintPress News journalist based in Chile. She has contributed to several independent media outlets including Global Research, EcoWatch, the Ron Paul Institute and 21st Century Wire, among others. She has made several radio and television appearances and is the 2019 winner of the Serena Shim Award for Uncompromised Integrity in Journalism.

(Republished from Mint Press News by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy, History • Tags: 9/11, American Media, Mossad 
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  1. Totally fake news. It never happened. Just sayin’…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  2. 18 years later, an important question once asked by Pat Buchanan still rings true: “Cui bono-who benefits? – is ever the question that must be asked about Middle Eastern terror”

    Without Saudi funding, 9/11 could not have occurred. Yet Trump is seeking to cover up for the Saudis who might be implicated in an upcoming report about 9/11.

    The more that time goes by, the more it’s revealed the cozy relationship between Israel and the house of Saud, the more it is seems likely that Israel participated in 9/11.

    Was it a joint venture between the two countries? One funded and provided the hijackers, and one rigged the buildings with thermite so that they’d fall? All in an effort to get America to take out the common threats to both Israel and Saudi Arabia (ex. Saddam, Iran, Bashar Al Assad)?

    If so, some at the highest levels of our government know, and they know that there’s not much that can be done about it.

    In any event, and strangely, America did not attack Saudi Arabia in the years after 9/11, as one would have expected given their involvement in that incident.

    Instead, we are providing them with weapons, and they are now seeking to acquire nuclear energy.

    Does that really make sense?

    It would if the US was being cowed into it by some form of blackmail.

    Such as getting away wtih gunning down untold amounts of people in a large and popular city and having a patsy to take the fall, no video footage evidence ever provided of the patsy going to and from his hotel room, despite it being one of the most surveiled cities in America.

    In fact, in the hours after this mass shooting, Trump met with Sheldon Adelson, staunch Israel-supporter and campaign financier.

    And then Trump within weeks declared that the US will move its embassy to Jerusalem.

    Just a strange collection of events, isn’t it? Almost like being told that Epstein actually killing himself….

  3. ‘Totally fake news. It never happened. Just sayin’…’

    Well, I was going to give you the link to the ABC News story documenting it — but that story’s vanished.

    Weird, huh?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  4. I always refer to 11 September as National Reichstag Fire Day. However it happened it was certainly used opportunistically by the yankee regime (and the zionists) to bolster the dictatorial and authoritarian elements of the regime. I am certain that the Israelis, at the least, were aware of the conspiracy as it occurred.

    • Replies: @Wally
  5. renfro says:

    “Give us twenty years and we’ll take over your media and destroy your country” (page 37 of the FBI report).

    Page 37 is missing in the pdf….it skips from 36 to 38.

  6. JimDandy says:

    Damn, I just skipped ahead to read all the hilarious hasbara comments. What’s taking you guys so long?

    • Replies: @Hans
    , @Rabbitnexus
  7. Anon[428] • Disclaimer says:

    How the Jew Israeli Artists did 911 and got away with it –

    Why The Military Knows Israel Did 9/11 –

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
  8. “… One theory to explain this discrepancy is that the Mossad elements of which the “Dancing Israelis” and other alleged Israeli spies could have been part of a specific section of Israeli intelligence that were acting independently as a rogue agency. Such a possibility is not unusual given that divisions of or groups within the CIA have been known to “go rogue” on several occasions…”

    Such an explanation is wholly unnecessary. Not only is the Mossad “rogue” enough, Israel itself is a rogue state engaged in false flag terrorism all the time. Heck, the state itself was created by terrorism. Rogue state, rogue secret service, rogue operation, it’s all par for the course.

  9. ValmMond says:

    You aren’t really trying. Are you?

  10. How does that old saying go? …. With friends like these…..

    • LOL: Iris
  11. Whenever and wherever strange murders, government problems, assassinations, and evil presents itself there is a good chance that Israel is involved in one way or another. From the Anthrax letters to the 9/11 attacks who benefits and follow the money are all you need to know.

    There is no other group, nation, tribe, or country that has destroyed more of mankind in one way or another than Israel. And the worst thing about all of it is they never pay for it and just laugh in face of the weak goy.

  12. Of course Israel had foreknowledge as they organized the “event”.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=911+israel+did+it&t=ffsb&ia=videos

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
  13. as early as 8:00 a.m. that day, more than 40 minutes prior to the attack.

    There has been some controversy about the exact time the schlomos arrived. I would think there are ways of finding out and not depending on the one eye witness (who came forward). The FBI almost certainly knows. It would be significant to find that out.

    Either Mossad was incredibly careless in their celebration or they wanted to be caught. I haven’t made up my mind yet as to which it was. I lean towards the latter. In either case we’ve never been given an adequate explanation and deserve much better. So naturally we are not going to get it.
    And it’s great to know the manager of Urban Moving Systems who had fled to Israel within 24 hours of the attack is now back in the USA working in the Bay Area. No doubt spying, for someone?

    • Replies: @DanFromCT
  14. El Dato says:

    Clearly, there was an interest in preventing the public from seeing the state of the towers at the time of the photos were taken and also in preventing the public from seeing the facial expressions of the Israelis, despite it being known from the FBI report that they are “visibly happy” and “jovial.” The state of the towers being edited out is particularly telling, especially considering that

    Something is missing at the end here.

    Remember, Remember, the plot holes of September!!

    “Give us twenty years and we’ll take over your media and destroy your country”

    Very perceptive.

  15. El Dato says:
    @dirtyharriet

    Such as getting away wtih gunning down untold amounts of people in a large and popular city and having a patsy to take the fall, no video footage evidence ever provided of the patsy going to and from his hotel room, despite it being one of the most surveiled cities in America.

    Well, there were less dead than in a US-strike on a Afghan wedding party, so it’s not “untold” (which starts at 100’000 minimum).

    But what would be large political reasons behind this manoeuver?

  16. “…Apparent Mossad Foreknowledge…”

    This foreknowledge was already blatantly apparent early on, while events were just beginning to unfold during that fateful morning in Manhattan because alleged co-conspirator Ehud Barak was kind enough to make a personal appearance, concurrently, directly at BBC News headquarters in London (oh so “coincidentally”, for coincidence theorists), playing the role of spontaneous “anchor”, to proclaim his scripted interpretation of what this major incident supposedly meant and suggest future policy guidelines that the US government should adopt in response. After years of planning for the big event he just couldn’t resist putting himself into the spotlight, very eager to lay out the intended narrative – just too revealing!

    Ehud Barak interview at BBC in London during the 9-11 attack:

    Basically, they botched their operation, which was far too complex to carry out without making tell-tale mistakes, but the media, FBI, and many others zealously covered up for them, after the fact, with a multitude of transparent lies and distortions. However, too many people were not fooled.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Rutger Spuds
    , @Sean
  17. Ghali says:

    “Saudi funding” is Fake News used to deflect attention away from the real perpetrator of the crime, the Jewish State of Israel. Overwhelming evidence shows the Israelis were deeply involved in the attacks. where as there is NO (zilch) evidence to imolicate Saudi Arabia

    • Replies: @DaveE
    , @2stateshmustate
  18. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    IMO, 9/11 was an Israeli masterminded False Flag, with help from traitors in the WH, the FBI, CIA, NSA and Pentagon. With lots of help from the MSM, including that ‘paper of record,’ the New York Times, which has a distinguished track record of lying to Americans.

    The Times lied about their good friend Uncle Joe Stalin, starving millions of Ukrainians to death and they lied about Saddam having WMD’s.

    Until Americans get off their lazy asses and start raising hell about 9/11, demanding the truth be told, we’ll just keep circling the bowl, right into the cesspit of totalitarianism.

  19. Alfred says:

    OK. It was the Israelis who did it. So what? Can you personally do anything about it?

    The only useful thing about this piece of information is that you now know that your government, its bureaucracy and judiciary does not care about you or about the truth.

    The only practical thing you can do is to move to another country and to try to start again.

  20. jasmin says:

    Of course, the Israelis knew of this in advance–they participated in the planning and carrying out of the event. This was a false flag event. The Israelis after the Levon Affair and the attack on the USS Liberty realized they can do anything because they literally own the news media and the own the Congress of the United States. And yes, it’s about the “Benjamins”

    Israel is the classic bully that is backed up by its big brother America. Both countries need a good bloody nose to come into line with civilized society. That bloody nose will come.

  21. gotmituns says:

    The Israelis rigged up all the explosive charges that brought the towers down. That’s why they were dancing. They had done good work.

    • Replies: @DaveE
  22. GMC says:

    The only discussion of 9/11 should be of the evidence in the Southern District of NY NY and the new Grand Jury. Much of the new evidence, from real professionals including nuclear scientists has been presented. It’s a Homerun, yet the corrupt judicial system has been sitting on it for over a year. Of course , what would one expect – from the City that financed and sent all those Trotskyites to Saint Petersburg, Russia.There should be thousands awaiting trials by now, but we see – nothing. America will not recover until Washington and NY is over run by the people – similiar to the Nam protests but 10xs larger. Thanks Unz Rev.

  23. The “possibility” that the Dancing Israelis had prior knowledge of the attacks???

    WTF? They were on the bridge with cameras focused on the buildings and admitted on TV that they were there ‘to record the event’. How much more evidence do you need?

    • Agree: Franklin Ryckaert
    • Replies: @El Dato
  24. Israel/AIPAC run the United States government. AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in Washington. Israel got 38 billion dollars, while we get more mexicans.

    Israel takes part of that money (from our taxpayers) to buy off our leaders so they provide more support for Israel.

    This is the circle of life.

  25. Anonymous[110] • Disclaimer says:

    The company’s owner — Dominik Otto Suter, an Israeli citizen — had fled to Israel on September 14, 2001, two days after he had been questioned by the FBI. The FBI told ABC News that “Urban Moving may have been providing cover for an Israeli intelligence operation.” Surprisingly, since at least 2016, Suter has been living in the San Francisco Bay Area, where he works for a contractor for major tech companies like Google and Microsoft. According to the public records database Intelius, in 2006 and 2007 Suter also worked for a telecommunications company — Granite Telecommunications — that works for the U.S. military and several other U.S. government agencies.

    Lol! They don’t even care about optics anymore. The US is a proper Banana Republic now.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  26. “Urban Moving Systems, Incorporated”

    “urban MOving SyStems, incorporAteD”

  27. Oh yes! How true. 19 Israelis boarded planes in Boston and New York, because Israelis generally blow themselves up for Allah. Inshallah PBUH.

    And the Bush administration promptly flew the Jewish bin Laden family to Saudi Arabia, the other Jewish state stolen from the Muslim World by Jooz using matzoh ball bombs.

    The Saudi royal family are actually Jews who were rebuffed by New York’s Jewish mayor, Rudy Giuliani, when the Prince offered $10 million as reparations for the Jewish crime of 9-11 that murdered 3000 non-Jews in DC and downtown New York – not a single Jew amongst them.

    Here’s a list of the pulverized.
    You can see for yourselves they were all innocent Muslims and innocent Nazis, and not a single Jew amongst them: http://www.911research.wtc7.net/cache/sept11/victims/victims_list.htm

    All the Jews left the towers and went over to New Jersey to anticipate the attacks by their brothers dressed up as Muslims, carrying Q’uorans. Ask Rashida Tlaib if that is not true, or Rep Ilhan Omar who will tell us “Some people did something.” Now we know who the “some people” are. Jooz speaking Islam. And then the Bush administration flew all the Jooz who were involved back to Riyadh by dinnertime.

    Meanwhile, the JOOZ fabricated the moon landing on a Hollywood back lot. It never happened. You know the JOOZ own Hollywood, the banks, and even the central bank to the central banks in Basel Switzerland! https://www.bis.org/

    [MORE]

    See the board of the world’s central bank with all the Jewish names here? https://www.bis.org/about/board.htm?m=1%7C2%7C2

    Even America’s largest bank is run by its Jewish CEO, Brian Moynihan.

    It gets far worse. One of the world’s greatest religions was taken over by a Jew named Jesus.
    That’s the fellow you can recognize easily, because he’s always wearing a white nightie.

    This is not the end of it. The Jooz will not even settle for taking over the world by next Thursday the latest.

    They intend to take over the galaxies, see here: http://thepeoplescube.com/current-truth/intergalactic-zionist-conspiracy-members-only-merchandise-t10088.html

    I know, because this writer is the CEO of the Intergalactic Zionist Conspiracy and your master. Ask the Ukranian-born owner of the website whom I tied to his seat at his computer with an Intergalactic Zionist Conspiracy cap to be permanently worn, even to bed. He will confirm this fact.

    Denial of the New World Order I control will do you no good. After all, the Holocaust never happened either, did it? I mean, I wasn’t there, so how would you know?

    You just don’t know it yet, but trust me on these words. Here’s a sign of your future from Budapest, Hungary, see the first link below, as I was present at the event in a state that didn’t like the Jooz much, but now have raised the Israeli flag over its parliament and across the bridges of the Danube.

    Meanwhile letting Israeli warplanes cross over its gorgeous capital city to cheers from the nation below, on their way to Auschwitz. This, just to remind the doubters that the Jooz not only won the war against them, not only destroyed the cities of their enemies, not only can topple skyscrapers in New York and anywhere else they choose, but can also take over the nations in Europe that hated them!

    It’s a done deal.

    Not only that, it can convince the Arabs too, that the Jooz are the best thing to happen to them since the invention of hummus and babaganoush – and even battery-driven sex toys they invented for the sexually-frustrated women of the impotent antisemites!

    The Jews are sexy too, in the real sense, and that is why the world’s best-looking women, models, actresses, dancers, come to New York, LA, Budapest, Moscow, to marry these Jewish jihadis. These are the billionaires with homes all over the world who regularly drive over the GW bridge to dance in New Jersey at America’s distress because they have nothing better to do between earning millions monthly across the river on Wall Street, or shagging the world’s most beautiful women who are converting to Judaism.

    1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tP2YuzEiWc Note how the leader of the former Nazi state greets the leader of the JOOZ. Have you ever seen so much hate and reciprocal hate? Me neither.

    2.

    3.

    4. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/israel-and-saudi-arabia-forging-ties-could-mean-war-with-iran-commentary.html

    And that is why Israel is not in danger. The antisemites are.

    That is why the antisemites who have made alliances with the Jihadis have far more to fear from Israel, than Israel from them.

    That is why the US military, as well as the militaries of most superpowers, rely on Israeli tech, Israeli brains, Israeli robots, Israeli common sense and connection with reality, to ensure the antisemites joined at the hip with Jihadis will meet their 72 bottles of virgin olive oil in the hell they wished on themselves.

    For trust me on it, there’s no Hell like the kind the Jooz will provide for you and your descendants. Even for the ones like your leader, Der Fuhrer, the one with the micropenis who put a bullet in his wife’s head before he put one into his own. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12168314/Hitler-had-a-micropenis-as-well-as-just-one-testicle-historians-claim.html

    In fact, Jewhate can be directly traced to the Jewhater’s impotence and sexual confusion. And that is one reason for the migration of the world’s most gorgeous women to places where they can meet many Jooz, to improve the gene pool of the world, if not exactly the way Der Fuhrer envisioned it.

    This is your new reality NWO fans:

    and this:

    Any questions? Don’t bother, I won’t be answering.

  28. Subject matter certainly worth back to back two day UNZ post.

  29. Hans says:
    @JimDandy

    LOL. They’re working double overtime these days. Give em a break. The clown car got out of the blocks fast with the first comment but then went into the ditch.

    This is one of the great ones: Mossad Juval Aviv: “It’s easy to put a truck bomb as we did in London” –

    • Agree: Robjil
  30. Anonymous[110] • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrew G. Benjamin

    I think you should lie down now. Have a glass of water.

    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
  31. @dirtyharriet

    It would if the US was being cowed into it by some form of blackmail.

    People get blackmailed, not nations.

    The people in the intelligence communities of the US, Israel, Saudi, and many other countries are all implicated in a wide variety of crimes that the others know about–think of it as a circle of blackmail.

    At some point the members in the circle internalize the reality of the situation and start acting as allies.

    If they stick around long enough they become friends.

  32. @Alfred

    “The only practical thing you can do is to move to another country and to try to start again.”

    What a strange conclusion. To say that just because the members of government agencies don’t care about us, we should just meekly move to another country makes no sense at all.

    I suppose you’re writing your comments from somewhere outside the US. If not you aren’t taking your own “practical” advice.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @Alfred
  33. Jake says:

    Of course the Mossad had foreknowledge of some kind. But so did the CIA and the Brit SIS. And probably so did the Saudi General Intelligence Presidency.

    At least the first named 3, and probably the Saudis as well, were behind long range planning to stage such an event to justify war foreign policy.

  34. Jake says:
    @Twodees Partain

    ‘meekly’?

    So you suggest we meekly accept what is here and ensconced behind more money than Satan can delight in? Or do you suggest we start a civil war to end the power of the Mordor level evil that runs the Anglo-Zionist Empire?

    • Agree: Durruti
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  35. @renfro

    Page 37 is missing in the pdf….it skips from 36 to 38.

    Please learn to read properly. It’s at the top of page 37/141, the page on the right hand. Every click on the triangle advances by two pages because there are two pages for each view.

    • Replies: @renfro
  36. Today September 12, 2019, am grateful to be in the midst of a very remarkable inquiry & exposition by Whitney Webb.

    One large matter which continues to perplex & stupefy me is the fact that the Mossad “dancing Israelis” had no outstanding good reason to document the vile 9/11 WTC tower murder-trap in such open public view, across the Hudson.

    Even if these agents were “rogue” Mossad, there was plenty of other remote angles from which they could have documented & celebrated the evil event.

    Their celebratory Jewish dance was purposefully RITUAL, and was most confoundingly accomplished in a way that they knew getting caught by neighbors & apprehension by Bergen County Police Department was likely.

    Unaccountable, the “dancing Israelis” knew that the Zionized US law enforcement & pursuant injustice was on their side. For me, & most insulting to date, I intuit the Star of David 9/11 “dancers” annually reunite in order to commemorate their ritual act 👺, in the comforts of their Israeli land.

    Thanks & my respect to Whitney Webb!

  37. Miro23 says:

    It’s plainly obvious that they were foreign agents complicit in the murder of 3000 Americans.

    A normal result would be their execution or lifetime imprisonment, with their collaborators in the US administration (who covered for them, tampered with evidence and released them) getting the same. The threads of treason are followed through US society to the end (the office of President), carrying the same penalties.

    US society is probably building up to do this, likely illegally, given the prospects for chaos and the hopeless state of American “justice”.

  38. Sean says:
    @Alfred

    Can you personally do anything about it?

    Yes, nut up or shut up.

    Many Americans have the bullets and the balls to do something drastic, but they do not take all this stuff seriously. For 18 years not a single one of those protesting their outrage really believes all this bullcrap, as proved by the lack of anyone doing anything about the living individuals identified as 9/11 culprits, beyond complaining on the internet about no no one is doing anything.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @Anonymous
  39. Hans says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Chuck, why the hell were our “good buddies” and “best friends” the Israelis posing for pictures with cigarette lighters during the attack? My guess it’s some deep Talmudic holy practice that is too subtle and holy for the cattle to grasp.

    “The five aroused attention in New Jersey after people noticed them going to unusual lengths to photograph the World Trade Center ruins and making light of the situation. One photograph developed by the F.B.I. showed Sivan Kurzberg holding a lighted lighter in the foreground, with the smoldering wreckage in the background, said Steven Noah Gordon, a lawyer for the five.”

    I’d love to be chosen enough to see what the other photos contained if the NY Slimes is willing to admit this much. You have to wade thru a lot of oy veys and tears of “A Nation Challenged” to get to the scraps of truth:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/21/us/nation-challenged-detainees-dozens-israeli-jews-are-being-kept-federal-detention.html

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  40. Durruti says:

    Whitney Webb,

    The Israelis Dance on our Graves:

    Thanks for the informative exposé of one more crime committed against America (9/11), by the Zionist/Jewish/Rothschild & other Financial Oligarchs,’ New World Order.

    We Americans have the Moral Duty and Physical Necessity of regaining our Sovereignty and our Honor, by Restoring Our Republic (which was destroyed by the Zionists’ MOSSAD-with some help from local Traitors, in a hail of bullets, along with our last Constitutional President, John F. Kennnedy, & Government, on November 22, 1963).

    Durruti

    • Agree: DESERT FOX, Robjil
    • Replies: @annamaria
  41. JessicaR says:

    First of all, thank you, Ron Unz, for allowing this article to be published on your site.

    Secondly, does anyone on this site remember the messages workers at Odigo, the Israeli instant messaging company, received *two hours* before the attacks. These messages seem to have warned about the attacks. Yet, even though Israeli *civilians* know the content of the messages, this content has never been made public to the American people.

    Perhaps the next FOIA request should be for these messages.

    I have long suspected that a few people in Israeli intelligence, perhaps the children of Jews from Arab lands who grew up speaking Arabic as a first language, located an al-Qaeda cell and encouraged the attack, perhaps offering practical assistance as well.

    This kind of cause means that only a few people knew about it. Perhaps most Knesset members had no clue whatsoever. This sort of action would be easier to conceal and would have the additional advantage of plausible deniability as the Arabs who knew would mostly be dead.

    • Replies: @Just another serf
  42. Not convincing. If Mossad had been involved in this operation, it would have sent serious people as masterminds or as observers. So would have done any agency worth its salt (BND, CIA, KGB/FSB, former Bulgarian & Romanian assassins…).

    And what Mossad is supposed to have done?

    Sending some guys who are overwhelmed by joy because of their machinations and …. dance. High five. Yaaay…

    These guys, if they had been the right stuff, would have invisibly blended into the crowd & no one would have noticed them. They wouldn’t even have blinked at the sight of collapsing towers. Or would feign horror & astonishment.

    And they…dance, high fiving.

    You seriously want me to believe these guys were not some neurotic looneys, but Mossad pros?

    Not convincing at all.

  43. I know a couple hundred people personally and talk to them throughout the year. Though I see many people doubting the official story of 9/11 online, none of them are brave enough to doubt it out loud, nor do I ever hear of others doing so. I understand the fear, of course, but c’mon. This isn’t about one’s personal opinion of the O.J. Simpson trial. This is far more important.

    Will the majority of Americans ever wake up and speak up? If and when they do, what will happen to the dollar?

  44. @Sean

    Sun Tzu–The Art of War

    The Empire is dying on its own–the cost/benefit of crashing the barricades are just not there.

    That is why only crazy people do it.

    Put another way–pioneers are the folks who get hit by the arrows.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
  45. “However, it is essential to note that Israeli intelligence did attempt to warn the U.S. government at least twice beginning in August 2001 as did the intelligence agencies of many other countries, including France, the UK, Egypt, Russia and Jordan.”

    However, it is even more essential to note that these “warnings” were not detailed, actionable warnings, but a calculatedly deceptive inculpation; part of a psyop whereby the “government” could pin the blame for 9/11 on “al Qaeda” without any kind of an investigation.

    • Replies: @Alden
  46. @Hans

    With a “War by Deception” caution light flashing, Hans responded to my comment, and wrote: “Chuck, why the hell were our “good buddies” and “best friends” the Israelis posing for pictures with cigarette lighters during the attack? My guess it’s some deep Talmudic holy practice that is too subtle and holy for the cattle to grasp.”

    Not all cattle are fooled, and my thanks & respect for Hans.

    In sordid Talmudic ritual, The “dancing Israelis” danced in public view; they wanted to get caught, had “no worries,” and now kosher shit is perpetually rubbed in the faces of dumbfounded Amerikans.😟

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  47. The attack on the WTC was done by Israel and the zionist neocon traitors in the zio/US government and these sites prove it, trunews.com, thetruthseeker.co.uk, henrymakow.com, veteranstoday.com, whatreallyhappened.com, rense.com, davidicke.com, etc..

    As an American who loves his country , I pray to God that someday the truth will be known and that the zionist chains that bind America will be broken!

  48. El Dato says:
    @Irish Savant

    Listen. They *could* have been travelers from the future.

    The only problem with the Israelis is that you get the feel someone is trolling you mercilessly but you are not really sure why.

    That’s probably the feeling of a Palestinian whose house got just demolished and olive trees blown up because Fat Guy Shlomo wants to “develop the area”.

    • Replies: @Sean
  49. typeviic says:

    If it were “Dancing Arabs” instead, every penguin in Antarctica would know about it.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  50. typeviic says:

    Visit Christopher Bollyn’s site. best 911 investigative journalism.

    http://www.bollyn.com/home/

  51. The Rothschild mob is taking down it’s uppity US section.

    Cui bono?

    Whitney Webb’s excellent reporting benefits mainly Euro and City of London Judeao-Aristocrats. Look carefully and you will see many similar efforts taking place simultaneously.

    Such a perspective explains everything from the election of Donald Trump to the carefully staged takedown of Jeffrey Epstein. The USA and it’s leading mafia lights will be snuffed, and via Israel blamed for 9/11, in show trials beckoning us all to rejoin the collective and dance in circles ’round the kabaa stone – representing Jupiter and the New and Improved Rothschild New World Order.

    Amercan Republicanism and the ideology of classlessness will be replaced an Indo-British global caste system. All will bow to the King or be ostracized by the new technocracy, the primary features of which are already established and not just in China.

  52. @Andrew G. Benjamin

    You are a typical Jew (and that is not meant as a compliment). I see that you write for the “conservative” (=kohn-servative) outlet The American Thinker, which is a typical Jewish attempt at hi-jacking genuine American conservatism for Jewish and Israeli purposes. I see that you feel frustrated by the prospect that not only the Jewish false flag of 9/11 is understood as such by a growing number of people, but all your crimes throughout history, from the time of the Old Testament when you genocided the Canaanites to the present. Your attempt at satire and ascribing “anti-Semitism” to sexual frustration (how typically Jewish) does not work with awakened Gentiles. You cannot go on indefinitely committing crimes against humanity without creating a backlash. When a critical mass of the world’s population understands your mentality and your behavior you’ll have no place to hide anymore. Not even your rogue state Israel, because no country can exist totally isolated. Interesting times lay ahead for Satan’s Chosen People.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @DaveE
    , @Sorrow Road
  53. A reminder to ALL.
    ( ALL=Those they speak in defense of USA and to an extension, for the rest of the World)

    These supporters of the illegal and terrorist entity, so called israel, are known to many as “sayanim”*.
    They are low paid, English speaking employees/volunteers of the “ministry of foreign affairs” of the above terrorist entity.
    So my friends you know, that answering, say, to someone with the pseudonym A123 or Sean, etc., you may engage in a conversation with a bunch of English speaking jews, who are students in US or elsewhere and using the same pseudonym.

    So, do not spend much effort to convince these freaks, about the difference between Light and Darkness.
    They are familiar ONLY in the darkness, cause they live in it.

    *From Metapedia.
    Sayanim (sing. Sayan; Hebrew: helpers, assistants) are Jews who live in and often hold the citizenship of lands outside of Israel, but who are recruited clandestinely by the Mossad to assist with its operations. As clandestine operations, claims regarding the Sayanim tend to be speculative and uncertain.

    “Agents differ from assets and sayanim. Agents possess the requisite mental state to be convicted of treason, a capital crime. […] Sayanim (singular sayan) are shielded from conventional legal culpability by being told only enough to perform their narrow role. […] In other words, a sayan can operate as an accomplice but still not be legally liable due to a lack of the requisite intent regarding the broader goals—of which they are purposely kept ignorant. […] When not aiding an ongoing operation, sayanim gather and report intelligence useful to Israel.”[1]

    Victor Ostrovsky, a former Mossad katsa turned author, wrote extensively about activities of the sayanim, as has Gordon Thomas. “According Ostrovsky and Gordon Thomas, the sayanim provide assistance of various kinds to Mossad officers operating in foreign countries. This assistance can include facilitating medical care, money, logistics, and even overt intelligence gathering. They can be Judges, Court Clerks, Expert Witnesses, Child Protective Service Workers, Assistant District Attorneys, Police Officers, or anyone with a great degree of power over people’s lives , and will do anything at the behest of Mossad case officers (katsa) for the State of Israel against its enemies or those perceived to be unfavorable politically to Israeli policy. (“By Way of Deception”, Victor Ostrovsky). Sayanim are supposedly not directly involved in intelligence operations, and are only paid for their expenses.”[2]

    An a example of one of the sayanim of 9/11/2001, was Michael Chertoff

    • Replies: @Sean
  54. wayfarer says:

    9/11 After 18 Years by Paul Craig Roberts.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/52238.htm

    9/11 Breakthrough Energy Technology by Judy Wood.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @John Thomas
  55. @ChuckOrloski

    “Even if these agents were “rogue” Mossad, there was plenty of other remote angles from which they could have documented & celebrated the evil event.”

    They were inexperienced and did not take into account that the woman who called the police noticed their suspicious behavior with the aid of strong binoculars. They were there to do more than take some pictures and celebrate, more importantly to stage another spectacular event, namely to set off their van, filled with explosives, at the middle of the Washington Bridge, which, like the three World Trade buildings, would have been prepared with micro thermite, during prior work that was done there.

    To say that they were documenting the event is to downplay what they were surely up to, which can be inferred from a contemporaneous report. Note the following quote embedded in the link referred to in Comment #4 above:

    American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported. (Jerusalem Post 09/12/01)

    Media in the U.S. subsequently referred merely to explosive “residue”, which is technically correct but grossly misleading. According to reports at the time, three of the five initial dancers were in the van, dressed in Islamic garments, with plane tickets to fly away in different directions. A likely scenario, which was thwarted by their apprehension, is not difficult to image in light of the Jerusalem Post report, and could have played out like this:

    Perpetrators stall van at the side of the road near the double cable at its lowest point, flip up the front hood, as if to signal engine trouble, be seen by other drivers in their conspicuous clothing, then escape by hailing taxis driven by accomplices, leaving the Islamic clothes in the taxis, rendezvous with the other two dancers in Manhattan driving a different van, then head for the airport. Authorities would soon close off the bridge to traffic, based on reports of the suspicious vehicle, possibly set to be blown up. Helicopters with TV crews focus on the van from above, keeping viewers in suspense until dusk, and suddenly there is a bright flash and fireball rising from the van, as the right side of the bridge is ripped apart, assisted by the thermite charges at the cables; both halves of the roadway fall into the water, very spectacular, right during prime time, perhaps the cables on the northern side might remain intact. Millions of people watching live are then led to think that Arabs not only blew up the World Trade Center buildings but also the Washington Bridge.

    The time these amateur dancers spent in custody, followed by deportation, was indeed very lenient punishment for having presumably participated in blowing up the only bridge that connects Manhattan with New Jersey.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  56. @typeviic

    Agree, as Voltaire said , to know who rules you, find out who you can not criticize , and in America the zionists are in control lock stock and gun barrel !

  57. DanFromCT says:
    @Mark James

    There are undoubtedly agents still living and documents still unshredded that connect the dancing schlomos from Urban Moving with the dancing schlomos in the FBI, FAA, etc. who oversaw the destruction of the evidence under Chertoff and Mueller. Virtually everything in the massive NFPA Code 921 Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations was disregarded without that evidence of criminal conspiracy itself being investigated. The plain facts of the matter will also eventually prove that the elaborate efforts at concealment by the owners of the msm provide powerful evidence of their guilt as co-conspirators complicit from day one in pulling off 9/11.

    The msm cover up of the truth I saw from watching some of the news yesterday is so absurd that a prize should be awarded for coining a name for it. Something to neutralize the fifth column and their wholly owned msm’s combining the words “conspiracy,” which best describes themselves, and “theory,” now incredibly meaning an automatic falsification of observation, measurement, and the laws of physics if any of it disagrees with what amounts to an official fairytale for children about naughty Arabs who magically flew airplanes into buildings because they hate us for our freedoms.

    I caught a few minutes of Fox News yesterday. Appalling that anyone with half a brain would swallow that bilge about 19 Arabs who couldn’t handle a Cessna 150, etc. They’re still using flag-waving jingoism and country music to encapsulate the Israeli-first meme as more American than apple pie and insinuating that pointing out absurdities with the 9/11 fairytale is tantamount to collaboration with the enemy. I had to laugh out loud watching Sean Hannity pretend to be so genuine in his patriotism it causes him to slip into lisping baby talk, like he’s now aping Trish Regan and Shep Smith. The conservative movement’s come a long way, from political rationalism to one of their hero’s talking baby talk overnight. No wonder the left is already doing victory laps.

  58. Altai says:

    Isn’t that the point. Whether or not 9/11 was a conspiracy or allowed to happen, the response to it was an actual conspiracy. The response would have been the same in either situation, that’s the point, that’s the conspiracy.

    In the event that an attack like 9/11 could have ever been motivated by actual terrorists, the motivation also derives from the US slavish backing of Israel.

  59. nsa says:

    Anyone care to actually attempt to explain WTC7? Some puffs of smoke from maybe a waste basket fire and then down it goes.

    • Replies: @Anon
  60. Sean says:
    @El Dato

    Palestinians try to hit back. Nothing is stopping you trying to DO something. Unless …you don’t really believe what you are saying. You cannot influence others with empty words.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  61. ValmMond says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Arrogance before the fall. And after it. The US is loaded by sayanim agents of all ranks and calibers, serving on all kind of missions. It’s an open buffet. The low levels used to masquerade as Art students back in the 2,000s. Later came the fashion of the “cosmetic boutiques” owners. Not exactly the Bond type. Just field information gatherers. Those are hastily prepared, usually picked during or immediately after their military service. By the way, all 5 admitted they were working for israeli intelligence. Your skepticism in the face of all the evidence, if sincere, is quite puzzling.

    • Agree: Durruti
    • Replies: @Alden
  62. Durruti says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You seriously want me to believe these guys were not some neurotic looneys, but Mossad pros?

    You raise some intelligent points for us.

    I will raise a few for you.

    1. The Dancing Scum behaved quite rationally & soberly during their TV interviews in the Entity.
    They displayed no nuttiness or neurosis of any kind.
    Their dress & comportment in the USA – was as swarthy scruffy Semites (Arabs). On Entity TV, they were well shaven, washed, & ‘white as the driven snow.’

    2. Acting neurotic & loonyish is a good cover – in itself. Apparently, only one witness noticed them (enough) to bother to call the police.

    3. They did their job. They took their pictures. Which is not to say that other (higher definition & more Professional pictures were not taken elsewhere). That is what happened. We have seen some of those higher definition videos, and pictures – taken by Film Crews & other Media employees.

    4. It is difficult to take photos of a Huge Tragedy/Assault & “blended into the crowd & no one would have noticed them. ” They almost succeeded in “blended into the crowd.”

    5. These Dancers might have served as a distraction. Might-Might Distract from what?

    6. The Dancers reception in the Entity was quite friendly. They were treated as heroes. Why?

    Yes, there is much We-The-American-People do not know about this Assault. We agree on that.

    former Bulgarian & Romanian assassins…

    ? Are they worth their salt?

    The buildings came down. One was not even hit by a bird, let alone a plane.

  63. Sean says:
    @Patrikios Stetsonis

    You are powerless to convince anyone of anything. You certainly don’t have to get kinetic with big bangs, but you must do incur personal costs before you can be taken seriously as someone who believes what they say. Internet commenting from behind a pseudonym is not going to convince anyone as it’s more of a pleasurable vice than self sacrifice.

  64. Hans says:
    @Sean

    Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former Director of Studies at the US Army War College , on Israel’s Attack on America on 9/11 –

    “Until we demand an independent, honest, and thorough investigation and accountability for those whose action and inaction led to those events and the cover-up, our republic and our Constitution remain in the gravest danger.” – Lt. Col. Shelton F. Lankford, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Retired U.S. Marine Corps fighter pilot with over 300 combat missions flown. Decorations include the Distinguished Flying Cross and 32 awards of the Air Medal.

    “The government story is total B.S. plain and simple.” – Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force, Flew for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Had previously flown the actual two United Airlines aircraft that were hijacked on 9/11. Former U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions.

    “No Arab hijacker, ever in a million years, ever flew into the World Trade Center. And if you got 30 minutes I’ll tell you exactly why…Maybe if I had a couple tries to line up a few building, I could have done it. But certainly not the first time and certainly not at 500 or 600 miles an hour.” – John Lear, over 19,000+ total hours flown in over 100 different types of planes for 10 different airlines in 60 different countries around the world. Holds every certificate ever offered by the FAA and has 23 different FAA type ratings. Held 17 world records including speed around the world in a Lear Jet Model 24. More at patriotsquestion911.com

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  65. @Sean

    Your “argument” dear (((Sean))) is to say that because nobody attacked the alleged perpetrators of 9/11 such as Larry Silverstein, then that “proves” that they were innocent, which is of course a non sequitur. You have no real arguments, so you resort to fallacies, confident like so many Jews that goyim are stupid anyway. Your arrogance will be your undoing.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Ron Unz
    , @Hamlet's Ghost
  66. wayfarer says:

    Israel accused of planting spy devices near the White House.

    The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as “StingRays,” mimic regular cell towers to fool cellphones into giving them their locations and identity information. Formally called international mobile subscriber identity-catchers or IMSI-catchers, they also can capture the contents of calls and data use.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house-spying-devices-1491351

    • Replies: @HBM
  67. Overlooked in the many discussions regarding the attacks on 9/11 is the role of the occult , Kabbalah , Black Magick and numerology in the planning , timing and design of the events that took place on September 11, 2001 . Based upon Aleister Crowley’s system of numerology 9 and 11 equals “evil magic”, the attacks took place on Tisha B’av an important date in Judaism as it is a time of remembrance primarily of the destruction of the two temples of Solomon which have been likened to the Twin Towers and building # 7 a/k/a The Salomon Brothers building of 47 (4+7=11 ) stories . In “The most dangerous book in the World : 9/11 as mass ritual ” S.K. Bain writes extensively about the occult driven , Luciferian plot behind 9/11 . The choice of the numbers 11 , 175 , 93 and 77 for the flight numbers of the planes which did not hit the buildings on 9/11 also have special significance , see Natalia Kuna “9/11 Event & Negative use of the occult numbers 9 & 11 .” “Contrary to popular belief , magic has been a presence in Judaism from biblical times until the present day ” ,Marilyn Cooper writing in “The Moment ” a magazine for North American Jews .

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  68. @wayfarer

    not only disinfo, but ridiculous disinfo.

    Unf**k yourself, Mister.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  69. @Bardon Kaldian

    “…Not convincing. If Mossad had been involved in this operation, it would have sent serious people as masterminds or as observers…”

    You seem to have a too high opinion of the Mossad, Israel or Jews in general. These people are clever but not perfect. Often they are carried away by their arrogance and over self-confidence. Thus they make mistakes that could have been avoided. They are more motivated by chutzpah than by real intelligence. See for example their clumsy Dubai operation (Google : Assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh). Nearly all their false flag operations can be reconstructed.

    • Replies: @Republic
  70. HBM says:
    @wayfarer

    I wonder if the spy towers were a result of Trump’s early Oval Office remodel.

  71. @Durruti

    Your comment has added no value to the article, which is weak.

    How did their behavior help Israel/Mossad in any way? Or, what did they actually do to contribute to the whole affair? I don’t buy they were “architects” of anything going on (or preparing to do). In fact, there was absolutely no necessity to take pictures of that disaster, especially if they, somehow, participated in it. On the contrary. <The description of the supposed range & profile of their involvement reads like a script for Seinfeld or The Piglet Files.

    What we know about spies in serious situations (Sorge, Abel, Cohen the quasi-Syrian, …) -these were very able people, characterized by chameleon-like behavior. Mossad has had a few successful exploits & hits in its career, from Eichmann abduction to the assassination of a Palestine rocket scientist months ago in Malaysia (or Indonesia, I don't quire remember). These were serious jobs.

    And, for a history-changing huge, huge conspiracy, which by far surpasses anything they- or any similar organization- are supposed to have done, they choose some moronic clowns who behave like idiots.

    I do not question that these were suspiciously looking & behaving Israelis; they could very well be working for Mossad or an Israeli intelligence community as some low level Forrest Gump- turned James Bond; but is hard, actually impossible to believe these guys had caused anything of any importance to happen. They are even worse than agent Piglet from The Piglet Files.

    Upon reading this article I am now convinced that Israel did not have anything to do with 11/9 (if these are the only suspects). Before, I thought: well, Israel could be, somehow, partially, involved. You never know, Jews are good, sometimes great spies, don’t underestimate them.They could have profited: the cui bono way of thinking.

    But now, on the basis of evidence of those dancing Forrest Gumps, I could say: no way, this conspiracy “theory” is a laughable, useless nonsense.

    • Replies: @Durruti
    , @ValmMond
    , @Alden
  72. DaveE says:
    @gotmituns

    Veterans Today, some years ago, detailed testimony from a Russian spy, Dimitry Khalezov who claims the Russians were (are) quite certain that the towers were brought down using micro-nukes.

    This makes a mountain of sense, visually, forensically, historically and common-sense-ically when the evidence is seriously evaluated.

    Nukes can be made the size of a Coke-can and have existed since the 1960’s. But of course, you ain’t gonna read about this in our filthy zionist media.

    Hell, zionism is the reason Leo Szillard (Jew) patented the concept of a nuclear reaction (explosion) in 1934, and they didn’t stop there. Edward Teller, Eugene Wigner and Robert Oppenheimer (all Jews)were just the early pioneers (on OUR nickel, of course!) but there have been many, many more, and they came up with more efficient and smaller nukes every few years, since then. And they ain’t gonna give away their secrets, folks.

    The whole Khalezov story looks even more legit when you know that he has gone into hiding, or, more likely, has been assassinated by the zionists for telling the truth, and writing about it. That is, after all, their modus operandi, as history has so clearly shown. Not to mention a VERY clear warning, so clearly elucidated by a guy named Jesus, all those many years ago.

    These are demons, folks.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  73. Sean says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    No, I merely say that the fact Silverstein has not been assailed (or even faced street demonstrations) proves that not one of the people who accuse him over 9/11 on the internet while hiding behind a pseudonym really believe what they say. Not a single one. Does becoming an internet Truther sedate men, reduce their testosterone, and convince them they are precious snowflakes too preciously unique to risk saying boo to a man whose hands are dripping with the blood on thousands of innocents?

    If Silverstein was guilty he would know it. A mass murderer whose identity was publicised as such would be immensely foolhardy to remain living openly in the city where he killed on an industrial scale. However, let us assume he is supremely arrogant and has the unspeakable chutzpah to expect nothing but a lot of vacious verbiage coming his way. In that case he would be proved wrong in a very kinetic way.

    Yet for almost two decades he has been alive well and insouciantly none the worse for all the Truthers calling him a slaughter of thousands . That could have been exposed as bravado or arrogance but after eighteen years one has to say has been proved right. Truthers can be under no illusions about anything happening to him as a result of the accusations, and there is no real life vigilante justice in all this because it was always just a way for you to while away the time safe in your home, like reading mystery or fantasy novels.

    • Replies: @Hans
  74. Alden says:
    @Harold Smith

    The warnings consisted of “ Recently there’s. been a lot of chatter that something big is being planned against the US somewhere in the world.”

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  75. Alden says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    After the first paragraph of any American Thinker article it’s the obvious it’s just another piece of Israel Uber alles propaganda.

  76. Ron Unz says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Your “argument” dear (((Sean))) …Your arrogance will be your undoing.

    There are quite a few longtime commenters on this website whom I’ve always strongly suspected of being pro-Israeli activists operating under “deep cover.”

    One of the more amusing aspects of articles like this one is that it has naturally drawn a few of them out and forced them to permanently unmask and reveal themselves…

  77. Durruti says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Your comment has added no value to the article, which is weak.

    Is my comment, or the article weak?

    You write:

    I am now convinced that Israel did not have anything to do with 11/9 (if these are the only suspects).

    You do not mean the date – 11/9?

    Your thesis is that these Dancing Zionists are too stupid to have destroyed the Trade Center buildings, therefore

    Israel did not have anything to do with 9/11

    Has Whitney Webb, myself, or anyone else on this website, or anyone else on this Planet, accused the Dancing Land Thieves of committing the Terrorist destruction of the Trade Center Buildings?

    They were OBVIOUSLY COMPLICIT in the crime. But it is not proven that they set the explosive charges & the other visual effects. They were certainly fairly young to head up such an effort.

    I repeat. They were OBVIOUSLY COMPLICIT in the crime.

    Conclusion:

    Your comment has added a good deal to Webb’s article & this discussion. It forces us to examine our facts, and that is a good thing.

    It appears you were/are looking for a way to exculpate the Zionist Oligarchs from one of their many crimes against humanity (and against my Country, America), the crime of 9/11 & the attacks on the Arab Nations – that followed. You will have to debate with Webb, Unz, and some others to effect that denial; although the New York Times, or Haaretz might be interested and easier pickings. Picking on me will get you nowhere.

    Durruti

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  78. Hans says:
    @Sean

    (((Sean))), he’s been confronted several times if I recall. I remember his scuttling away in one instance.

    Anyhow, here’ one instance that may have slipped your mind –

    • Replies: @Sean
  79. Alden says:
    @ValmMond

    Don’t forget the Israeli kiosks selling sunglasses key rings and hair ribbons that littered every shopping mall. Those tiny corporations were used for a lot of HI B fraud, SBA loan fraud importation of prostitutes, money laundering mail box drops all sorts of things useful for both spying and crime. It was as much a cliche of Israeli immigrant small business as manicurists are for Asian women.

    • Agree: Patrikios Stetsonis
    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  80. Alden says:
    @Ron Unz

    Their cover is about as deep as a layer of paint on a piece of unprimed wood.

  81. Alfred says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Let’s face it. The criminals who were behind it are well-known. They walk around freely. You can probably run across some of them a DC Starbucks, restaurant or strip club. If anyone really cared, they would have done something to these guys. To make them live in fear. The reality is that nothing has been done about it for 18 years. What sort of message is that?

    On the other hand, numerous individuals who pointed out the fallacy of the official story have been disposed of.

    Yes. I am outside the USA and I am not your countryman. I do follow my own advice.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  82. ValmMond says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    They had foreknowledge. Foreknowledge indicates complicity. It’s obvious even for the dumbest of official version supporters. That’s why the incident and the israelis’ subsequent arrest were scrubbed from most mainstream news outlets.
    The high-fiving dancers’ exact role in the 9/11 events is irrelevant. All 5 knew on that morning why they were on that NJ hill overlooking lower Manhattan and what was coming to the twin towers. Conspicuous celebration must have not been part of their job description, but hey, it was mission accomplished and the goyim were not looking. As it turned out, they were. But in the end, it didn’t really matter. They’ll keep seeing the Trees for the Forest (Gump?) and when one of these trees falls, it shall make no noise in the zionized informational vacuum.

  83. Wally says:
    @exiled off mainstreet

    sais:
    “I always refer to 11 September as National Reichstag Fire Day.”

    Yawn. You have simply taken even more Zionist bait that you think you are resisting.The Reichstag fire was not as Zionist allege. The Reichstag fire was indeed started by communists, not ‘the Nazis’.
    Fire in the Reichstag, By Peter Wainwright :

    [MORE]
    https://codoh.com/library/document/1986/
    exc.:

    When considering the facts, it seems incredible that the myth of Nazi responsibility for firing the Reichstag could ever have been accepted at all. Yet it was, and by reputable historians such as Alan Bullock, author of Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, and Anthony Sutton, author of Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler. One wonders what other mythical versions of historical incidents have been accepted by historians and others “without looking at the evidence.”

    and:
    The Reichstag Fire – Was It A False Flag ?: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11254
    exc.:

    “After the fire in the Reichstag on February 27 1933 forces hostile to the national socialist party claimed that it was they themselves who started the fire to set up their communist opposition. But several sources including British historian A J P Taylor and Fritz Tobias who wrote the book The Reichstag Fire – Legend and Reality have come to the conclusion that they did not. But to people who pay no notice to historical research and prefer propaganda the Reichstag fire is right up there with Gleiwitz.”

  84. Alfred says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You seem to have a high regard for the Israeli Mossad. If they did not have the full cooperation of the local cops and politicians in all the places where they carry out their dirty work, they would have all been caught a long time ago. They probably carry out several assassinations or kidnappings per week. Just because it is not on TV means nothing.

    A long time ago, I was told by an American that he made the mistake of renting his house near JFK to some Israeli sky marshals. These guys trashed his house. He was unable to sue them because they all had diplomatic passports. What makes you think they are so smart? They are the normal detritus that all countries give these jobs to.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  85. Ron, Pastor Chuck Baldwin, who was a confirmed Zionist until after a Damascus moment, posted on his site this piece about a book that names names, and provides facts. It’s worth reading.

    It’s ironic when not just Christians–real Christians–should venerate the truth, that anyone of conscience seeking the truth is attacked and called a truther.

    As Orlov wrote about conspiracies, we don’t have to get to the details on how they’re done. Let those who push the fake narrative explain all the failures on 911 and why Bush, Cheney, the Joint Chiefs, the heads of CIA and FBI didn’t resign if the perpetrators were Muslims with box-cutters.

    Orlov:

    https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/07/highly-unlikely-conspiracies.html

    [MORE]

    Once we filter out the sheep and train our minds so that we can remain comfortable while maintaining a skeptical view of all facts at our disposal, conspiracy theory becomes a very useful sport. In fact, it is quite a popular sport. Cornell University professor David Collum recently tweeted the following:

    I am a “conspiracy theorist.” I believe men and women of wealth and power conspire. If you don’t think so, then you are what is called “an idiot.” If you believe stuff but fear the label, you are what is called “a coward.”

    I pretty much agree with Collum, although in place of “believe stuff” I would say “are skeptical of the official story” because what’s key here is not what you believe but what you refuse to accept as the truth unquestioningly. Like it or not, nobody is going to present you with “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth” on a silver platter tied with ribbons and bows accompanied by a bit of fanfare. Instead, the best you are ever likely to obtain is limited, skewed, distorted knowledge leavened with a bit of outright falsehood.

    I suppose I am a “conspiracy theorist” too. Whenever I write something that questions the veracity of some official narrative, someone (probably a troll) pops up and asks me what I think of 9/11. Here is what I typically reply:

    I totally believe that it was possible to knock down three steel-framed buildings using two flying aluminum cans loaded with kerosene, luggage and meat. I have proven that this is possible by throwing two beer cans at three chain-link fences. All three fences were instantly swallowed up by holes in the ground that mysteriously opened up right under them and in which they were instantaneously incinerated into fine oxide powder that coated the entire neighborhood. Anybody who does not believe my experimental results is obviously a tin-foil-hat crackpot conspiracy theorist.

    Lots of people read this and ran away bleating; a few people bust a gut laughing because this is (trust me on this!) actually quite funny. Some people took offense at someone ridiculing an event in which thousands of people died. (To protect their tender sensibilities they should consider emigrating to a country that isn’t run by a bunch of war criminals.)

    But if you do see the humor in this, then you may be up to the challenge, which is to pull out a useful signal (a typical experimentalist’s task) out of a mess of unreliable and contradictory data. Only then would you be in a position to persuasively argue—not prove, mind you!—that the official story is complete and utter bullshit.

    Note that everything beyond that point, such as arguing what “the real story” is, is strictly off-limits. If you move beyond that point you open yourself up to well-organized, well-funded debunking. But if all you produce is a very large and imposing question mark, then the only way to attack it is by producing certainty—a very tall order! In conspiracy theory, as in guerrilla warfare, you don’t have to win. You just have to not lose long enough for the enemy to give up.

    Link to Baldwin’s post:

    https://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/tabid/109/ID/3785/911-The-Biggest-Con-Job-Since-JFK.aspx

    IT’S TIME FOR THE TRUTH TO COME OUT!

    And Christopher Bollyn’s investigative research brings out the truth like nothing I’ve read to date. His research connects the dots and destroys the myths.

    Mr. Bollyn’s research is published in a book entitled (full title): The War On Terror: The Plot To Rule The Middle East. I mean it when I say that if enough people read this book, it could change the course of history and save our republic.

    This is written on the book’s back cover:

    The government and media have misled us about 9/11 in order to compel public opinion to support the War on Terror.

    Why have we gone along with it? Do we accept endless war as normal? Are we numb to the suffering caused by our military interventions?

    No. We have simply been propagandized into submission. We have been deceived into thinking that the War on Terror is a good thing, a valiant struggle against terrorists who intend to attack us as we were on 9/11.

    Behind the War on Terror is a strategic plan crafted decades in advance to redraw the map of the Middle East. 9/11 was a false-flag operation blamed on Muslims in order to start the military operations for that strategic plan. Recognizing the origin of the plan is crucial to understanding the deception that has changed our world.

    Folks, 9/11 was a deception. The “War on Terror” is a deception. The phony left-right paradigm is a deception. FOX News is as much a deception as CNN. America has been in the throes of a giant deception since September 11, 2001. And this deception is being perpetrated by Republicans and Democrats and conservatives and liberals alike.

    I do not know Christopher Bollyn personally. I’ve never met him. But I thank God he had the intellectual honesty and moral courage to write this book. I urge readers to get this explosive new book. If you don’t read any other book this year, read Mr. Bollyn’s investigative masterpiece The War On Terror: The Plot To Rule The Middle East.

    Again, I am enthusiastically recommending this book to my readers, and I make no apologies for doing so. The truth contained in this research MUST get out, and I am determined to do all I can to help make that possible.

  86. annamaria says:
    @Durruti

    “Zionist/Jewish/Rothschild & other Financial Oligarchs,’ New World Order.”

    — Perhaps the focus should be on the “local” organizers and yes-men, beginning with Cheney the Traitor, Bush the lesser, Rice the Mushroom Cloud, Tenant, Mueller, and the opportunistic higherups among the US brass — all those who put their comfort (money and power) before the well-being of their country. They allowed the “event” to happen (some perhaps were actively involved in preparation for the “event”), and they made the financial killing and literal killing of great numbers of humans in the aftermath.

    At least, Israelis have been destroying the US (by pushing the US resources towards the wars of aggression in the Middle East) to protect and promote their myth-based ideological toy of Eretz Israel. In comparison, the US government/Pentagon have solidified into a bunch of traitors and become engaged in the pornography of betrayal at home and mass slaughter abroad for ba$e profiteering. The US Congress of corrupt cowards has been stinking like rotten fish.

    Until the local rot and poisoning continues, the country will be open to deadly infections and diseases.

    • Replies: @Durruti
  87. Truth3 says:

    Because people do not understand Mathematics, particularly the sciences of Physics and Statistics & Probability, they are susceptible to believing completely improbable and impossible explanations that are utterly false, yet widely accepted.

    For example, simple demographic and actuarial studies would utterly demolish the Holohoax narrative.

    Another example… nobody that understands system integration from a quality engineering perspective could ever believe the official 9/11 explanation. Why? Stack up one improbable element onto the next, where as a system all are required, and the probabilty that the narrative holds water is reduced to a sliver thinner than nano-carbon.

    Time for the Scientists and Mathematicians and Engineers that are not (((Jews))) or (((Zionist Controlled Shabbos-Goyim))) to save the rest of the Planet, before it is too late.

    Education. Truth. The only solution. Hard work, but it’s all we got.

  88. Richard B says:
    @Andrew G. Benjamin

    For articles like this one, and not just this one, the AGREE/DISAGREE/ETC. response feature needs to add a “JIDF Troll” option.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  89. @Durruti

    It appears you were/are looking for a way to exculpate the Zionist Oligarchs from one of their many crimes against humanity (and against my Country, America), the crime of 9/11 & the attacks on the Arab Nations – that followed. You will have to debate with Webb, Unz, and some others to effect that denial; although the New York Times, or Haaretz might be interested and easier pickings.

    Sorry, but- get a shrink. If you seriously think that “Zionist Oligarchs” exist as some sinister organization or actual Jewish group masterminding or controlling most of US foreign policy- there is not anything to discuss. True: a) in the US, Jews as an ethnic group are way over-represented in the corridors of power, constituting perhaps ~20% of American power elites; b) Zionist Jews, and by that I mean not Jewish supporters of Israel, but “Israeli firsters” who are Jews first & Americans second (or hardly at all) are a clear minority in that ethnic (sub)group, no more than 20% of them (and that would be, I think, overestimate). Israeli firsters & similar ilk are well described in Walt & Mearsheimer’s book on the Israeli lobby; just, apart from Jonathan Pollard & probably a few other spies, there is not enough evidence to pinpoint the great pro-Israeli plot and especially anything convincing re twin towers collapse.

    The article has not shown what those dancing Israelis did actually do, except for taking pictures & behaving like neurotics under stress. Woody Allen would have been more persuasive as an Israeli spy.

    9/11 or 11/9? When someone points gleefully to the typos, it is a sure sign he has nothing to say or argue.

    These dancers were not obviously complicit in anything & much more important – it is not obvious that it, the twin towers collapse, was something planned or executed at higher levels than the official version says.

    The whole conspiratorial mindset is, when I think of it, similar to the later phases of German classical philosophy, Hegel in particular. These guys (Hegel, Schelling) had built immense, gigantic philosophical superstructures (history, metaphysics, philosophy of law, Naturphilosophie ..) based on slim empirical evidence & tried to fit those vast structures in the Procrustean bed of their narrow world-view. For instance Hegel refused to acknowledge that Uranus existed because that would mean that Pythagorean structures, with sacred number 7, were inadequate as explanatory paradigms of nature.

    The same goes, on a significantly lower level, with many conspiracy theories, including 9/11 truthers. There are some info, data & events that are somehow shady, dubious or hard to explain. Also, some data are questionable- or not, I don’t know.

    What better than to accept some grand & all-encompassing quasi-explanation ?

    • LOL: Ron Unz
  90. @Alfred

    Spooks can be divided in a few classes, at least two: masterminds & operatives. Masterminds are rare (Wild Bill Donovan, Dulles, Canaris, Schellenberg, Heydrich, J.J. Angleton, Beria, …). Great operatives are also rare (Rudolf Abel, Richard Sorge, Sydney Reilly, Elie Cohen the fake Syrian …). Clumsy operatives are more frequent (the Rosenberg couple), while some are hard to classify (Klaus Fuchs) & others are numbskulls who just got lucky for some time (Jonathan Pollard).

    If Mossad (or any other agency, Israeli, American or any combination of all spooks in the world combined) tried to to plan & execute such a vast, breathtaking operation that would change history, far surpassing JFK assassination or nuclear weapons secrets theft -they would have employed qualified people & not someone worse than agent Piglet.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  91. @Ron Unz

    I guess I didn’t hit the reply button right but see my post above; I think Orlov’s points are valid. Just discredit the narrative.

  92. @Richard B

    I’d be satisfied with a “YAWN” rating option.

  93. @Alden

    Silverstein and the rest of the zionists who did 911 should be in prison for life instead of prancing around like mafia dons.

  94. Republic says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    re

    :See for example their clumsy Dubai operation (Google : Assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh

    also see the failed 1997 assassination attempt of Khaled Mashal in Amman,Jordan. Mossad agents put a fast acting poison into his ear. However they were soon captured. King Hussein of Jordan demanded that Israel turn over the antidote of the poison or Jordan would cut diplomatic relations.

    PM Netanyahu at first refused but he later agreed to send the antidote and the head of Mossad flew to Amman with it

  95. @Been_there_done_that

    Hello, Been_there_done_that,

    Respectful of your presumed experience, I am unclear with your mental mechanics upon which you concluded that, “They were there to do more than take some pictures and celebrate, more importantly to stage another spectacular event, namely to set off their van, filled with explosives, at the middle of the Washington Bridge…,”

    So to reiterate my point, I believe the “dancing Israelis” were Mossad pros, who had they any concern/fears for getting caught & charged with having extremely suspicious 9/11 foreknowledge, they would not have ritually celebrated & danced in public view.

    Point taken: Indeed, the weird “dancing Israelis” might have been Jewish “amateur dancers,” haha, but in no way were they amateur Mossad men.

    Thanks and ‘dat ‘gonna be my done ‘dat respect, Been_there_done_that! 😏

    • Replies: @Hans
  96. @Alfred

    /The only practical thing you can do is to move to another country and to try to start again./

    Another false dilemma.

    What is it with this binary imposition? It’s not as though I placed any implicit trust in the executive or legislative branches before 9/11, and it’s not as though they weren’t dirty long before I was born.

    If the country should implode as a consequence of this corruption, I don’t imagine there would have been much I could have done to prevent that. In the meantime, I’m quite content in my local sphere, like most of my neighbors. Better than ditching the country would be to establish localized, semi-autonomous, self-sustaining communities capable of mounting a defense if and when the need arises. While hardly simple, it’s a far more practical means of providing for the survival and security of our posterity than moving to Godknowswhereistan.

    Grass sure ain’t any greener there.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
  97. Alden says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    The dancing Israelis were only caught because one of the thousands watching the destruction of the towers had binoculars and caught them. It’s often tiny things like that that catch criminals spies whatever.

    Serial killer Son of Sam was caught because one of the detectives thought to check all parking tickets issued in each neighborhood around the time of the murder. He reasoned that the killer didn’t live in the neighborhoods where he killed and had to park in the street. Sure enough the killer got a parking ticket near the site of the killing right date right time.

    Russian spy Colonel Abel was caught because he used fake quarters and nickels to conceal his microdot information. The coins had too and bottom sections that unscrewed. He had his newspaper delivered. One day he paid the paper boy using one of the 2 piece nickels. The boy noticed. He showed it to his Dad who notified the FBI.

    Had Abel bought his paper from a store or newsstand it would have been difficult or impossible to trace. But paperboys know their customers.

    Jonathan Pollard was caught because he spent so much time away from his desk working for Israel he didn’t get any work done. So his supervisor decided to fire him.

    Government employees aren’t at will. They can only be fired for cause. So the supervisor set about documenting causes to fire Pollard. That investigation led to the supervisor’s discovery Pollard was working for Israel.

    Had Pollard worked for an at will government contractor he might have been fired, but he wouldn’t have been caught. It was only the for cause investigation that caught him.

    The dancing Israelis were caught because one woman used binoculars.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  98. niceland says:

    They didn’t manage to keep, high profile criminal, Jeffrey Epstein alive. The prime witness to alleged crimes of many others and the key to bring them to justice. Keeping Epstein alive was too difficult for the nation that sent men on the moon half a century ago, and spends billions of dollars each year on intelligence.

    Now, after FOIA request made by a private citizen the FBI releases few of the photos in very bad quality and heavily redacted. Basically worthless. Is there any reasoning behind this as to why so few, so bad and so redacted or is this just to show the FBI is beyond and above and does what it pleases. TPTB are just mocking us. The message is clear.

    It’s best to forget 9/11. They want us to remember it. Let’s rather remember what happened after, there are no mysteries about that story. We even know part of it was written before 9/11. And the results speak for themselves; hundreds of thousands killed and millions on the run, trillions wasted. A crime much worse than 9/11 ever was – and we, more or less, know the culprits.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  99. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    For all you know I might be a pro Israel activist, but if I am I did not start that way. It was more reaction against the prevailing level of bias in the comments. Israeli agencies might be holding off making an organised effort against your site because that would be too obvious a sign you were onto something. Possible.

    However, one might also speculate as to the sincerity of a belief that by means of a large internet site that exceeded mainstream conservative ones in traffik, one could expose and call out a powerful clandestine and totally merciless network with impunity to act, and yet not expect the result that ones hard earned fortune would disappear in a fiendishly complex fraud done with the assistance of a financial institute’s officials, illegal things would be planted on one’s computer, false complaints of an unspeakable nature made to the police, and substances sprayed in one’s ear or smeared on the front door of one’s house that would send one into a terrifyingly mind bending trip ect ect.

    To be more mundane, I think Israel’s US auxiliaries could, if they so choose, come up with routine harassment quite a bit more effective than a couple of people making typo ridden naysaying comments on the posts at UNZ. Annoying, but that would be expected at any site. As far as I can see from the comments appearing, the anti Israel slant of the site has not led to any targeting by a troll farm operation.

    As this is a forum for less heard opinions I thought it appropriate to call out a commonly made (here) point of view as seeming in bad faith. Maybe I went over the top a bit. It is, I suppose, well within the bounds of possibility for 99.999% of Truthers to not feel impelled to take take action and yet still believe in the guilt of US establishment and business individuals repeatedly identified as culpable in 9/11’s thousands of deaths

    But with the internet and 18 years the number of people who call themselves Truther seemed great enough many times over for there to be that one person who took action and this has been so for getting on for two decades now. McLuhan’s medium is the message style, being on the internet does tend to have a different dynamic than going to a meeting, and I suppose the medium maybe makes the population less action orientated. I do think something would have happened by now. One person willing to act on principle irrespective of the consequences to them, that is all it would have taken, yet hasn’t ever happened. Lots of character assassination though.

  100. Who in the Devil would be surprised to learn that our closest ME allies and to their own benefit either organized the strike on the WTC or, when knowing from their intelligence operations, didn’t choose to warn us.

    SOME ALLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  101. DaveE says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    This gets my nomination for This Weeks Best Comment. And a GREAT takedown. Nice work, Sir.

  102. Sean says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    For instance Hegel refused to acknowledge that Uranus

    So he has got Chuck on ignore?

  103. ValmMond says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    F(I)YI
    https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577#.6ot3305bl
    Nothing personal but your comments remind me of Taleb’s book.
    In fact, they could be added as an Exhibit thereto.
    Verbose. Pompous. Poseur. Conformist. No skin in the game.
    Peace.

  104. @Bardon Kaldian

    The USS Liberty was attacked in broad daylight, no reasonable explanation was ever provided for the cause of attack, and nothing was done by the American government to Israel as a result. Victor Ostrovsky spilled the beans on Israel’s false-flag radio communiques that prompted Reagan to bomb Libya. Nothing was done to Israel as a result. During Clinton’s term, Israel engaged in a massive espionage operation that provided real-time telecom feeds to Israel from the White House, State Department and Pentagon. Not a single thing happened to Israel.

    These are but a sample of the precedents for unrequited Israeli chutzpah that occurred before 9/11.

    Hundreds of Israeli agents were living and working in very close proximity to the purported hijackers in the run-up to 9/11. This fact is taken directly from an 82-page report compiled by the DEA.

    So when we speculate that Israelis are not bumbling fools who would act as foolishly as the dancing shlomos did, we have to consider historical precedents of exposed operations that yielded no significant consequence for Israel as well as the plausible possibility that the dancing shlomos were a calculated ruse, a red herring that would divert the resources of law enforcement from discovering the more flagrantly guilty operatives involved in the operation. In his own investigation of the matter, Christopher Ketcham averred as much.

    Your analysis is far too circumscribed in its conjecture to be taken seriously. I don’t blame Ron for laughing at it.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Sean
  105. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    You seem to be suggesting that because lone individuals who hold controversial opinions on a highly taboo subject aren’t going on suicidal shooting sprees against representatives of the overwhelming power of the State, they must not actually believe in those opinions, and by extension nobody must believe in them and therefore they must not be true.

    So in your estimation, how many such suicidal shooting sprees would suggest to you that there are actually people who believe in such opinions, and by extension, that there might be some truth to such opinions?

  106. @Sean

    /As this is a forum for less heard opinions I thought it appropriate to call out a commonly made (here) point of view as seeming in bad faith. Maybe I went over the top a bit. It is, I suppose, well within the bounds of possibility for 99.999% of Truthers to not feel impelled to take take action and yet still believe in the guilt of US establishment and business individuals repeatedly identified as culpable in 9/11’s thousands of deaths/

    Awww.

    Now doesn’t that just warm your heart?

  107. Sean says:
    @Hans

    Well I was wrong about that and some people actually have confronted him*. Still, it’s not really rising to the level of the Pizzagate nut with his ARi5. Molesting a hundred (say) kids is so much less outrageous that murdering thousands of adults (and maybe preparing another such event) apparently because none of the millions of guns in NYC has ever been involved in confronting Silverstein , and no one has tried to place him under peaceful non violent citizens arrest to inhibit his ability to murder a another couple of thousand people..

    *Did they really believe they were saying say boo to a mass murderer or just a goose. I have the feeling they would have been more surprised than anyone if they were arrested and the found themselves taken into the sub level vault under the Freedom Tower where in a thick Hebrew accent, and as a nasty little smile revealed the gold caps on his tobacco-stained teeth, Colonel Saul Rubin, of Israeli Military Intelligence introduced himself saying “Since your racist activities are in violation of the International Genocide Convention, you will be tried by an international tribunal, with representatives from both your country and mine. But first we need some information from you, so that we can also bring your fellow criminals to justice at the same time. “

  108. If you can locate a copy of the documentary series “Why Intelligence Fails”, the episode that addresses the attack on the Twin Towers references a very curious interview of a teacher in a nearby elementary school.

    According to that teacher one of her students pointed to the Twin Towers during a recess period and made the following comment,

    “See those buildings up there? (pointing to the Twin Towers) Next week they won’t be there.”

    That’s a stunning comment by an elementary student. I have always wondered if that was not evidence of something less sinister. That the attack of the Towers was well known or suspected by Muslims and via the rumor mill was not unusual given the number of revenge attacks that might circulate the rumor mill.

    And that this was picked up by intelligence services, including the Israelis who acted on that information, perhaps even down playing it in communiques with the US.

    As to conspiracies they are certainly possible. But to date they have created a lot of suspicion and possibilities but very little evidence. I don’t have any doubts that maybe just maybe, those dancing five were happy and surprised that the rumors were not only accurate but that the matter had actually been pulled off. And that success would be a boon for Israeli and US relations (a fluke of even basic security failures went their way).

    But to make a case one needs more than vague or even specific suspicions, though clearly are prisons are loaded with just such circumstantial arguments.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  109. renfro says:

    If you don’t think the FBI hasn’t been trying to nail Israel for years and is still trying you are mistaken.

    Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House
    The likely Israeli spying efforts were uncovered during the Trump presidency, several former top U.S. officials said.

    By DANIEL LIPPMAN

    09/12/2019 05:14 AM EDT …Politico

    [MORE]

    The U.S. government concluded within the past two years that Israel was most likely behind the placement of cellphone surveillance devices that were found near the White House and other sensitive locations around Washington, according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter.
    But unlike most other occasions when flagrant incidents of foreign spying have been discovered on American soil, the Trump administration did not rebuke the Israeli government, and there were no consequences for Israel’s behavior, one of the former officials said.
    The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as “StingRays,” mimic regular cell towers to fool cellphones into giving them their locations and identity information. Formally called international mobile subscriber identity-catchers or IMSI-catchers, they also can capture the contents of calls and data use.
    The devices were likely intended to spy on President Donald Trump, as well as his top aides and closest associates — though it’s not clear whether the Israeli efforts were successful.
    Based on a detailed forensic analysis, the FBI and other agencies working on the case felt confident that Israeli agents had placed the devices, according to the former officials, several of whom served in top intelligence and national security posts.
    “It was pretty clear that the Israelis were responsible,” said a former senior intelligence official.
    An Israeli Embassy spokesperson, Elad Strohmayer, denied that Israel placed the devices and said: “These allegations are absolute nonsense. Israel doesn’t conduct espionage operations in the United States, period.”
    After this story was published, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denied that Israel was behind the devices. “We have a directive, I have a directive: No intelligence work in the United States, no spies,” he said in a gaggle with reporters. “And it’s vigorously implemented, without any exception. It [the report] is a complete fabrication, a complete fabrication.”
    But former officials with deep experience dealing with intelligence matters scoff at the Israeli claim — a pro forma denial Israeli officials are also known to make in private to skeptical U.S. counterparts.
    One former senior intelligence official noted that after the FBI and other agencies concluded that the Israelis were most likely responsible for the devices, the Trump administration took no action to punish or even privately scold the Israeli government.
    “I’m not aware of any accountability at all,” the former official said.

    • Replies: @Robert Dolan
  110. @Sean

    Well “Sean” ,
    Although it is against my religion to talk to a jew like you, I must STRONGLY advise you to joint “Jew anonymous”.

    -“Jew Anonymous”, is fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other. The primary purpose of “Jew Anonymous” is to help Jews to rid themselves of any sense of chosenness and superiority over their fellow human beings and embrace all of mankind, regardless of heritage, nationality, religion or race.

    “Jew Anonymous” is based on the successful model of “Alcoholics Anonymous”.
    According to the founder of “Jew Anonymous”, the biggest challenge for both Jews and alcoholics is the realization that they have a problem.
    They need to overcome the “river of denial” and need the help of others to recover from their condition and solve their common problem.

    Starting in late 2012, RMG plans to set up “Jew Anonymous” groups in all major cities in Europe, Australia, Canada, the UK, and the US.
    Former and recovering Jews [from the supremacist/paranoic cult know as Judaism] interested in becoming a founding member of “Jew Anonymous” are asked joint us using their past experience.-

    • LOL: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Kalliopi S.
  111. @ValmMond

    There is an easy way to recognize losers in a discussion.

    a) ad hominem “arguments”

    b) in case of numbskulls, it’s about labeling others as “pseudo-intellectuals”. How can one distinguish between an “intellectual” & “pseudo-intellectual” is beyond my powers of cognition.

    In my opinion, both categories are heirs to Greek Sophists. Be as it may- when someone calls you a “pseudo-intellectual” (or something similar), rest assured that you’re only seeing a hurt ego.

    • Replies: @ValmMond
  112. @Alden

    On the contrary, at least some of the “warnings” identified Osama bin Laden and/or al Qaeda.

    “On Aug. 6, 2001, President George W. Bush received a classified review of the threats posed by Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network, Al Qaeda. That morning’s “presidential daily brief” — the top-secret document prepared by America’s intelligence agencies — featured the now-infamous heading: “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” A few weeks later, on 9/11, Al Qaeda accomplished that goal.

    []

    The direct warnings to Mr. Bush about the possibility of a Qaeda attack began in the spring of 2001. By May 1, the Central Intelligence Agency told the White House of a report that “a group presently in the United States” was planning a terrorist operation. Weeks later, on June 22, the daily brief reported that Qaeda strikes could be “imminent,” although intelligence suggested the time frame was flexible. []”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html

    • Replies: @Alden
  113. @AnonStarter

    ? What this has to do with twin towers?

    Probably the best analysis of the Liberty case has been given by Finkelstein & it is available on this site: http://www.unz.com/nfinkelstein/to-live-or-to-perish/

    And this incident has, re its execution & motives, nothing in common with 9/11. To not see that means, well …. to be deficient in logic & mental capabilities.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  114. utu says:
    @ValmMond

    “Verbose. Pompous. Poseur. Conformist. No skin in the game.” – That’s Bardon Kaldian.

  115. Hans says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Chuck, here’s a bit more on the other vans involved in the 9/11 attack:

    Truckload of Mossad Bombs Found on George Washington Bridge on 9/11 –

    This is likely what happened on 9/11:

    1. The Israeli “movers” cheered the 9-11 attacks to celebrate the successful accomplishment of the greatest Mossad spy operation ever pulled off in history.

    2. One of them, or an accomplice, then calls a 9-1-1 police dispatcher to report Palestinian bomb-makers in a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel.

    3. Having thus pre-framed the Palestinians with this phone call, the Israeli bombers then head for the George Washington Bridge instead, where they will drop off their time-bomb van and escape with Urban Moving accomplices.

    4. But the police react very wisely and proactively by closing off ALL bridges and tunnels instead of just the Holland Tunnel. This move inadvertently foils the Israelis’ misdirection play and leads to their own capture and 40 day torture.

    5. To cover up this story, the U.S. Justice Department rounds up over 1000 Arabs for minor immigration violations and places them in New York area jails. The Israelis therefore become less conspicuous as the government and media can now claim that the Israelis were just immigration violators caught in the same dragnet as many other Arabs.

    6. After several months, FBI and Justice Department “higher-ups” are able to gradually push aside the local FBI agents and free the Israelis quietly.

    Some Other Israeli Van Operations:

    Israeli Movers Freed, Back in Miami – https://www.madcowprod.com/2004/05/20/israeli-movers-freed-back-in-miami/

    NEW (2204) ISRAELI MOVING VAN MYSTERY – https://www.madcowprod.com/2004/05/11/new-israeli-moving-van-mystery/

    Security scare shuts Kings Bay – http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/04/05/Kings_Bay_220504.html

    And the gave it a go in Mexico: Two Israelis arrested with bombs in the Mexican Congress – http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mex.html

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  116. Durruti says:
    @annamaria

    — Perhaps the focus should be on the “local” organizers and yes-men,

    The Algerian Nationalists dealt forcefully with their own Traitors, in order to be better prepared, as a Nation – to resist the French occupiers. American Sons of Liberty Tarred & Feathered & Executed local politicians who were pro-British.

    Dealing with “the local rot” as you call it is always a good Means, as long as Full National Sovereignty is the End goal. The End must justify the Means, or, as I like to say, The Means will Become the Ends.

    To a great extent, we are accomplishing your excellent idea here at UNZ. We are identifying the local traitors & yes-men & yes women, and focusing much attention on them. More local focus will be both clarified and, unfortunately, opaqued, in the coming Hollywood Electoral Show.

    We must not decline to an over concentration on local bloodletting, and allow the Zionist Financial Oligarchs to safely crawl away. We must keep the eye on the prize (who sang that?). What do we want? What do you want?

    My flavor is a Democratic Republic (with all the trimmings). What’s yours?

    Durruti

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  117. @EliteCommInc.

    I’m sure that if what the Muslim child said had any teeth to it, the mainstream media would have been all over the investigation of it like ants on honey. That nothing came of it tells us all we need to know.

    /I don’t have any doubts that maybe just maybe, those dancing five were happy and surprised that the rumors were not only accurate but that the matter had actually been pulled off./

    Are you positing that these guys just happened to pick up what they heard circulating around the Muslim rumor mill?

    As the FBI report reveals, there’s credible evidence that the dancing shlomos had such precise foreknowledge of the event, they placed themselves in photo-taking range of the towers a good hour before the catastrophe. One would have to ignore all of the evidence of Dominik Suter’s rapid evasion; the discovery of highlighted maps, thousands of dollars stuffed into a sock, and explosive residue in the shlomobile; as well as the hundreds of Mossad operatives living and working in close proximity to the purported hijackers in the run-up to 9/11 to conclude that these schmendricks were just acting on a rumor.

    I find it baffling that you would draw this conclusion. Given the established facts, it makes no sense whatsoever.

  118. @Jake

    Meekly running away is what Alfred suggested. Apparently, you just woke up from your nap.

  119. @Alfred

    So, you’re not an American, but you want to needle us. This is none of your business, Alfred. Mind your own business if you have any to mind.

  120. Mossad’s execution of 9-11 should have been a wake up call.
    You guys subscribed to the phony WMD and coyote planes dissapearing into the babylonian twin towers whilst your intuition should have kicked in and told you something is not right.
    9-11 should have been the litmus test for truth but you conveniently ignored it. You looked the other way due to cognitive dissonance.
    You followed Bush’s order to go on a spending spree with more credit card debt jacked up with high interest to feed the satanic cabal instead.
    With all these bogus wars on terror and non-ending hoaxes you have unwittingly supported the Zionist Satanic push for one world disorder.
    At this point, all you can do is repent for your sins and start fighting back the criminal enterprize who are in charge of orchestrating all these bogus war on terror, creating these monstrous, diabolical, sinister ISISraHELL with the help of al-CIA-da and MOSSAD.
    Alternate would be to sit back and enjoy bigger fireworks than 9-11 coming near you whilst they prepare greater IzraHELL for the coming of their Yahweh, The Anti-Christ dajjal who will globalize his reign of terror from Jerusalem.
    Either way buckle up for a roller coaster ride with some of these demonic, totally psychopathic, diabolical, sinister, pathological liars and corrupters of mother earth. You reap what you sow.

    There is a lie. Then there is a BIG LIE. Then there is 911. Santa Claus is beyond a LIE. Tel LIE vised 911 EvangeLIED are being taken for a ride by way of Deception to think Jesus Christ died for their Evils. Everyone shall have to account for deeds, either good or evil to enter Paradise or eternal abode in Hell fire.

    The infuriating thing about 9/11 and the multitude of lesser false flags which both preceded and followed it is that, although most Americans know it was as phoney as a three and a half dollar fed reserve note, everyone seems content to put up with the extremely phoney “war on terror” it was designed to create and which has already destroyed a hand full of countries in the world, caused the murder of upwards of two million people, mostly using U.S. military, and turned the U.S. into a ruthlessly insane police state wherein everyone is made to obey patently unlawful statutes in the name of “emergency” while the ruling elite has quit obeying any laws at all while gathering a massive military presence to cow the now restless and resentful public. – See more at:Christopher Bollyn: The Man Who Solved 9/11

  121. @ValmMond

    well said, and I might add: “arrogant asshole, self impressed prick.” The guy is an infestation by himself.

  122. @Durruti

    Durruti offered the following fascinating comment that has owned* my goat for quite a long time, in fact ever since the day after 9/11:
    “They did their job. They took their pictures. Which is not to say that other (higher definition & more Professional pictures were not taken elsewhere not to say that other (higher definition & more Professional pictures were not taken elsewhere). That is what happened. We have seen some of those higher definition videos, and pictures – taken by Film Crews & other Media employees.”

    Hey Durruti!
    Re; above,
    Can either you or someone else sophisticated in the capabilities of satellite image photography inform me about the possibility of available ARCHIVED & hence publically accessible NASA space images from September 11, 2001?

    As you might know, and I am not about to completely “bank on” Russia’s alleged claim to have very embarrassing & damaging 9/11 space satellite image-evidence. Presumably, such release could have altered the US pointer “finger” having mercilessly fallen upon the 19 Arab hijackers.🤔

    At any rate, Professor Durruti, am forced to ask myself, “how can Zionized-NASA officials be trusted to release undoctored 9/11 space imagery?” But can either you or someone else competent, & oh fuck, not Sean,🇮🇱 help me here? If not, well it’s just another day-after 9/11 grieving in broken Scranton. Thank you.

    * “Owned my goat.” Haha. Holo Wally claims to own mine.

    • Replies: @Durruti
  123. emmett23 says: • Website

    I have a few questions to the author:
    1. Why did the five “Dancing Israelis” film the WTC so that everyone could see them?
    2. Why did pro-Israeli media in the US report about the arrest of the five Israelis?
    3. Why did the Mossad allow the five Israelis to be interviewed on Israeli TV and say that they were tasked with documenting the event?
    4. Why did the Israelis carry box cutters (the alleged tool used by hijackers) in their van?
    5. Why did they leave explosive residues in their van?
    6. How could France, the UK, Egypt, Russia and Jordan know that the U.S. was preparing a false-flag operation and warn the perpetrators about the crime?

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  124. @Bardon Kaldian

    /? What this has to do with twin towers?/

    You wrote

    //If Mossad (or any other agency, Israeli, American or any combination of all spooks in the world combined) tried to to plan & execute such a vast, breathtaking operation that would change history, far surpassing JFK assassination or nuclear weapons secrets theft -they would have employed qualified people & not someone worse than agent Piglet.//

    And my response addressed this comment by providing evidence that Israel has openly committed criminal acts against the United States of America with complete impunity — the Pollard case being a singular exception to the general rule, and even he’s received very lenient treatment in consideration of his crimes.

    Now if such is the case, then, even while the towers burned, the nonchalant disposition of some Israeli operatives — particularly these young, naive agents — is entirely within the realm of reasonable possibility. You can go back and read what I wrote about the hundreds of Mossad operatives shadowing the purported hijackers (for which you have no explanation) and Christopher Ketcham’s theory that these shlomos may have served to divert the attention of law enforcement from (a) cadre(s) of Israeli operatives who played a more active role in the attack.

    That I had to explain all of this to you in an effort to make you understand what I originally said would suggest that, between us, I’m not the one suffering from “deficient logic and mental capabilities.”

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  125. Alden says:
    @Harold Smith

    Unfortunately there was no information as to where when what and how.

    I’m in danger of my purse being robbed every time I go out. But I don’t know where when and who. Every bank and retail store in the country is in danger of being robbed every hour of every day. But they don’t know who and when. I’m in danger of getting in a collision every time I drive my car. But I don’t know when where and who, idiot texting drunk Mexican or macho Armenian Persian Russian Israeli who doesn’t think I’ll stop for a yellow light.

    Even if the information specifically mentioned Al Qaeda when where and how was needed. What exactly were the agencies who compiled the 8/6 daily briefing doing to investigate the Al Qaeda threat?

    I remember the Minneapolis FBI agent reporting suspicious Arabs in a flight school and her warnings being ignored.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  126. Whitney Webb is an excellent journalist! Great to see her work posted here at Unz. Thanks to both Ron and Whitney.

  127. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    So when we speculate that Israelis are not bumbling fools who would act as foolishly as the dancing shlomos did, we have to consider historical precedents of exposed operations that yielded no significant consequence for Israel as well as the plausible possibility that the dancing shlomos were a calculated ruse, a red herring that would divert the resources of law enforcement from discovering the more flagrantly guilty operatives involved in the operation. In his own investigation of the matter, Christopher Ketcham averred as much

    Can you give some examples of this technique even being used before. Is it taught as tradecraft in the CIA or other secret service training schools, because I find it very difficult to believe that anyone in on such an operation would dare to provoke arrest by the NYPD, who had just seen thousands including a score of men killed. It is certainly poor criminal etiquette to draw attention to oneself. As far as I am aware the CIA -FBI black baggers use lookouts and radio communication (as with Watergate) avoid arrest. Once you are in police custody anything can happen; interrogation is what they do for a living. The cops could beat and torture them into talking, shoot them dead, absolutely anything that day and have got away with it in the chaos.

    Certainly as far as those Israelis knew, they were maybe getting into something they would not get out of by getting themselves arrested filming and joking the 9/11 attack. Maybe they were some kind of Mossad operation, but Israelis are not North Koreans. As Martin van Creveld said the performance of its troops during the 2006 Second Lebanon War showed they”crybabies” among them were not so rare. Some officers were court martialed. As with the thesis about Silverstein I feel this is giving Israelis an awful lot of credit. Then again if Ron Unz really believes some of these posts he is promoting, he is a brave man. I personally think he is brave in relation to a danger he has imagined, but brave nonetheless.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @JP
  128. @Durruti

    Durrutti referenced the classic American folk song, “Keep your eye on the prize” and asked: “(who sang that?).”

    Hey Durruti!

    I think Pete Seeger wrote the song, but linked below is a very cool Bruce Springsteen version. Please refer below?

    Selah, The Asbury Park “Boss” could make
    American de-Zionization “dance”😏 by his doing songs which help keep The Resistance’s guerilla eyes on the prize.

  129. Anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Are you drunk or stupid? Both?

    • Replies: @Patrikios Stetsonis
  130. Sparkon says:

    The so-called Dancing Israelis were the subject of an earlier article at UR by Dr. Philip Giraldi back on May 28. My comment there includes a link to the entire, heavily redacted FBI report, and concludes:

    All of this is strong circumstantial evidence that the so-called Dancing Israelis — aka Weehawken Five or the Celebrating Shlomos — had foreknowledge of the impending attacks on the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-role-in-9-11/?display=showcomments#comment-3247322

    The FBI report (p. 8/141) indicates that film was seized in the vehicle with NJ License JRJ13Y from a Canon EOS SLR, a Pentax P550, (35mm fixed lens compact), and from a camera bag. 35mm film is or was sold in rolls of 20 and 36 exposures. An unidentified “camera” was also seized, and I suggest this might have been a video or movie camera, as the witness said one of the suspects appeared to be filming the WTC as it burned. Whatever the case, the Israeli photographers might have taken between 60 and 108 individual 35mm shots of the “event,” and additionally a video or a movie.

    I imagine we’ll be seeing all those images any day now.

  131. Durruti says:

    ChuckOrloski

    Many thanks good Friend.

    I demonstrated with Baez. Brings back memories. In the future we must fashion more memories.

  132. “I’m sure that if what the Muslim child said had any teeth to it, the mainstream media would have been all over the investigation of it like ants on honey. That nothing came of it tells us all we need to know.”

    Apparently you are unacustomed to dealing and talking with children. We ignore a lot of what children say because they are children and in this case a random comment would probably not have much in the salience, save this response . . .

    “Ohh that’s interesting. Time to head in everyone.”

    There would be no reason for the teacher to place that reference in any threatening context, until well after events unfolded. Then she might say,

    “Ohh my goodness . . .” and pick up the phone. But until events unfolded, there’s no context of threat. A million strange things are said by children everyday.

    ———————————–

    “Are you positing that these guys just happened to pick up what they heard circulating around the Muslim rumor mill?”

    I am not a very bright guy. But sometimes many of befuddle even the ignorant. You bet intel agencies are tapped into the rumor mill of suspect organizations, there was an active hunt for Al Quaeda in progress and they should be. Not these guys, more like the pipelines of Israeli intel and they got the specific assignment.

  133. anarchyst says:
    @emmett23

    The answer is easy.

    It’s jewish supremacist arrogance that is ingrained in every jew from birth on…

    You see, jews have a supremacist bent, think that they can “pull the wool over gentile eyes” while acting out with impudence.

    Jews think that they are the smartest ones on the planet, and that us stupid “goyim” cannot or will not be able to see through their shenanigans.

    Jews are amoral and have absolutely no qualms about doing whatever they want, as long as fellow jews are not affected.

  134. “As the FBI report reveals, there’s credible evidence that the dancing shlomos had such precise foreknowledge of the event, they placed themselves in photo-taking range of the towers a good hour before the catastrophe. ”

    In my view there’s no reason why they wouldn’t have known a eek, a month, several months before. I cannot prove that the above is the case. But it certainly would not be out of the main.

    Head to any police task force on organized crime and ask them what their best sources are —

    Pretty sure the “talk about town” via so and so heard this from whose its . . . and . . it’s called

    “the word on the street”, talk on the street . . .

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  135. Durruti says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Hey Durruti!
    Re; above,
    Can either you or someone else sophisticated in the capabilities of satellite image photography inform me about the possibility of available ARCHIVED & hence publically accessible NASA space images from September 11, 2001?

    My field is History, which means I know very little about anything practical.

    You might attempt an innocent call to the NSA, or a visit to your local Congressman/woman, or even your local library, or ask on this forum – – – Wait! You just did that.

    Such photos might be Vewwwy Interesting. Difficulty in accessing them, if they exist, would also be interesting.

    God Bless!

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  136. @AnonStarter

    BK has been using that same tactic ever since he wandered in here from AmRen. You can explain the conversation to him, but he isn’t interested in anything other than obfuscation, at which he fancies himself a master.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  137. Anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:

    It looks like the FBI is realising that the narrative is very, very weak now. This will be a standard misdirection IMO:

    FBI Finally Agrees To Name Saudi Official Who Helped 9/11 Attackers

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  138. @Sean

    ‘For all you know I might be a pro Israel activist, but if I am I did not start that way…’

    This reminds me of the ‘I’m not a Zionist but…’ shtick another Sean used to practice over at Mondoweiss a few years back.

    I can’t guarantee it, but I think you’re the same guy. Your product the same sort of ‘soft’ hasbara calculated to spread a gentle fog of confusion and obscurity over anything threatening to Israel — and it’s coupled with throwaway lines calculated to appeal to the target audience. Back at Mondoweiss, that Sean — addressing a largely Jewish audience — put out a lot of references to the intellectual heritage of Judaism, etc. Here, you take care to utter far-rightisms at regular intervals.

    The whole idea is to get as many as possible thinking ‘that Sean — he’s a good guy. Maybe he’s got a point.’

    If I’m right, you are a pro. That has to be admitted.

    • Agree: AnonStarter, Robjil, utu
    • Replies: @mcohen
    , @Adrian
  139. @niceland

    I believe that Epstein is alive and is in Israel, and I believe that Barr had a hand in getting him to Israel.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  140. Biff says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    the twin towers collapse,

    Nothing collapsed

  141. I think it’s amazing that so much confusion and obscurity can be generated around a very simple and self-evident fact.

    Israeli intelligence agents were in place and waiting to film the 9/11 attacks. That means they knew exactly what was supposed to happen, where it was supposed to happen, and when it was supposed to happen.

    I’m a bit of a steam engine buff. If you find me down by the train tracks at 11:57 am with my camera, and at 12:02 pm Union Pacific 4833 roars through pulling an excursion train, there’s really only one reasonable conclusion.

    I knew that train was coming through, when it was coming through, and where it was coming through. I did not just wander down to the Southern Pacific tracks out of general hopefulness.

    • Replies: @Sean
  142. mcohen says:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/fbi-finally-agrees-name-saudi-official-who-helped-911-attackers

    Great article on zerohedge about saudi involvement.The arabs must pay compensation

    No wonder the focus has shifted to “the dancing Israelis” because the “jews did 9/11” narrative is slipping away.

    So many arab shills so little time.

    Smoke on the water fire from the sky

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @Colin Wright
  143. @Franklin Ryckaert

    I’d say you were doing Lasha Darkmoon proud, but no one from that site can be associated with the word “proud”. It’s been years and you’re consistently not very smart. You’re commenting at the right website 🙂

  144. @Anonymous

    drunk or stupid?????

    Worst. He is a ……WASP jew

  145. @Durruti

    Durruti, excessively humble, wrote:
    “My field is History, which means I know very little about anything practical.”

    Hey Durruti!

    Above & as you’re well aware, the best historians know people very well, and such discipline fosters practical & very valuable knowledge making it’s way through the Holo Zion fog.

    One more thing. There was a bright & obfuscation-inclined U.R. commenter whose screen name was “Incitatus.” He doesn’t like me & same goes for me. Is now M.I.A.

    Fyi, on many occasions, Incitatus would brag about his family tree🙉 and upon one occasion he stated that he was a descendant of a Civil War Confederate General. Haha.
    Big whoop? And at times, (Zigh) Incitatus would boast how he knew someone who was present during a world changing event.

    And please spare me if I’m a tad inexact,🤔, Professor D.? But InZitatus once claimed to know a guy who was relieving himself in a burning WTC tower’s “Gender Free Restroom,” and after zippering up, he watched a distressed guy who claimed he heard “boom-booms,”jump out a window.

    My point: It’s 50-50 that InZitatus either has a relative or knows someone whose employed at NASA’s Archival Department of Satellite Imagery, and he can help me determine if the ZUS actually has/had 9/11 satellite imagery. 😏 Thanks and right back at ‘ya, God bless you!

  146. @Sean

    /It is certainly poor criminal etiquette to draw attention to oneself./

    Yet that’s exactly what many Israelis did — draw attention to themselves:

    The Israeli “art student” mystery

    The DEA published an 82-page report that provided great detail on their peculiar activity, including the fact that they were living very proximately to the purported 9/11 hijackers. The correlations are mind-blowing.

    One would think that all of this is entirely out of character for an Israeli intelligence operation, right? In the interest of economy, you should really read Ketcham’s article, which posits a number of possible scenarios without settling upon any one of them. Yes, he’s speaking of the art students, not the dancing shlemiels per se, but the parallel nonchalance is unmistakable.

    /The cops could beat and torture them into talking, shoot them dead, absolutely anything that day and have got away with it in the chaos./

    That you expect us to believe this would happen to Israeli operatives to whose defense both Richard Armitage and Alan Dershowitz immediately leapt before the investigation could be properly concluded is cute, albeit ridiculous.

    /I feel this is giving Israelis an awful lot of credit./

    Nobody claimed they’re infallible.

    I incline more toward the idea that the dancers were just too confident for their own good, given numerous historical precedents for unrequited chutzpah of Israel in committing both criminal and corruptive acts against the U.S. This, together with the fact that they possessed no smoking gun is a cogent hypothesis that withstands a lot of extra speculation.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Hans
  147. @Twodees Partain

    I thank you kindly for that explanation.

    It’s something I had suspected, though I thought I’d go ahead and respond anyways. That way, the door for any rationale of misunderstanding he may attempt to conjure thereafter remains slammed firmly in his face.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  148. Art says:

    Jews spy on White House — Trump says NOTHING!

    Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

    The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind the placement of cell-phone surveillance devices that were found near the White House and other sensitive locations around Washington, D.C., according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter.

    ….

    With the president, the former senior Trump administration official noted, that could include trying to listen in on the devices of the people he regularly communicates with, such as Steve Wynn, Sean Hannity and Rudy Giuliani.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/israel-accused-of-planting-mysterious-spy-devices-near-the-white-house/ar-AAHbnKD

    9/11 bloody flag waver Sean Hannity is silent about Jews spying on him.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  149. @EliteCommInc.

    Shea Memorandum:

    http://ariwatch.com/Links/SheaMemorandumIsrael/SheaMemorandumIsrael.htm

    Scroll to the bottom to see the maps.

    No need for any “rumor mill.” These Israelis were shepherds.

  150. @Alden

    “Unfortunately there was no information as to where when what and how.”

    LOL! Seriously? Well of course there wasn’t; there wasn’t supposed to be, and that was the whole idea – a series of uselessly vague warnings – the only thing not vague being the identity of the perpetrators they intended to blame.

    • Replies: @Alden
  151. @Colin Wright

    You’re welcome.

    Indeed, it’s amazing that so much confusion and obscurity can be generated around a very simple and self-evident fact.

    Unfortunately, we’re dealing with zionists, for whom confusion and obscurity — if not boldfaced lying — remain preferred weapons of choice.

  152. @mcohen

    Why not both?

    Israel and Saud are intertwined. Why wouldn’t they collude for mutually beneficial results?

  153. mcohen says:
    @Colin Wright

    Hey “colin wright”

    You must be a mondoweiss fan…….I posted under “mcohen” for years.Remember my farmers prophecies ? and poetry………remember this one

    “Who shall put a rock upon a sapling.A blind man searching for a blessing”

    Or

    “There are 3 sides to a coin not 2.Heads, tails and the edge, which is both the seen and unseen hand of God”

    Great site…….mooser and annie and phil and taxi….wow those were the days. 500 plus comments,big wigs,i heard even obams was there……..

    Seems to have died down a bit.Fought the good fought.Still like to visit

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  154. @AnonStarter

    “…I’d be satisfied with a “YAWN” rating option…”

    Well, then at least make that a (((YAWN))) option.

  155. ‘…Unfortunately, we’re dealing with zionists, for whom confusion and obscurity — if not boldfaced lying — remain preferred weapons of choice.’

    Be fair. You gotta work with what you got.

    You want Zionists to deal in the truth? That wouldn’t work out very well for them.

  156. @Armaggedon

    It’s like saying I’m pretty sure the Japanese had foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
  157. @mcohen

    ‘Great article on zerohedge about saudi involvement.The arabs must pay compensation…’

    Not bad. Zionist redirection 1A…but nicely executed.

    Keep it up and someday Israel will offer you a post as a paid Hasbarist.

    Then you can be a real Jew…without, of course, the inconvenience and unpleasantness of moving to Palestine.

  158. @DESERT FOX

    ‘I believe that Epstein is alive and is in Israel, and I believe that Barr had a hand in getting him to Israel…’

    Epstein is dead, and so, I would guess, is Ghislane Maxwell.

    When it comes to Israel, never become both conspicuous and inconvenient.

  159. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Reminds me of an old economists joke:

    Two economists are walking along when one spots a $20 bill lying on the ground.

    Economist 1: “Look at that! A $20 bill lying on the ground.”
    Economist 2: “Impossible! If it was really there, someone would have already picked it up.”

  160. @Andrew G. Benjamin

    Nice little straw man argument you got there.

  161. @mcohen

    ‘Hey “colin wright”

    You must be a mondoweiss fan……’

    Don’t try to be my friend. Zionists are filth.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  162. Alden says:
    @Harold Smith

    So you were being sarcastic? Your posts read as though you blamed Pres Bush for not personally doing what thousands of American intelligence workers didn’t do.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  163. @Colin Wright

    “Epstein is dead, and so, I would guess, is Ghislane Maxwell.”

    Or so you speculate, but that’s all it is, pure speculation.

    • Replies: @phiz
  164. @Colin Wright

    I stand by what I said and especially about Barr.

  165. Al Liguori says: • Website

    The Israelis have a long history of using false-flag terrorism against the United States:

    excerpted from 9/11 and the War on Terror: Israel’s History of False Flag Operations against the U.S.A. by Christopher Bollyn
    7 July 2018
    https://phibetaiota.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/911-POTUS-Bollyn-Zionist-Timeline-Names.docx

    [MORE]

    1954 JUL – The Lavon Affair: Israeli agents place bombs in U.S. and British libraries and institutions in Egypt in a false-flag operation meant to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood.

    1967 JUN – Israeli aircraft and ships attack the defenseless USS Liberty, killing 34 and wounding 171, with the intention of sinking the ship – with no survivors – so that the blame could be assigned to Egypt.

    1983 OCT – A truck bomb kills 241 Marines in their barracks in Beirut. Former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky says Mossad knew the details of the truck, the time, and location of the bombing, but only gave a general warning to the Americans. A nebulous “Islamic Jihad” group is blamed; Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger says U.S. has no knowledge who really did the bombing. This occurred one month after a single Marine stopped an Israeli tank column – some former Marines believe Israel organized the attack.

    1986 FEB – Mossad plants a radio relay device in an apartment in Tripoli, Libya, to send fake messages that appear to be from the Libyan government; U.S. intelligence is successfully tricked and President Reagan orders bombing of Libya.

    1978 – Israeli agent Arnon Milchan’s first film features a Boeing 747 crashing into the PanAm building. Months before 9/11 produces a film episode in which remote controlled airplanes hit buildings.

    1979 JUL – Netanyahu Institute hosts conference on terrorism calling for U.S. military intervention in Middle East.

    1979 – Isser Harel, founding chief of Israeli intelligence, predicts 9/11 attacks in New York City.

    1982 FEB– Israeli Likud strategist Oded Yinon plan calls for the “dissolution of Syria and Iraq” and Balkanization of all Arab states.

    1983 – Israel creates foe for War on Terror: Under Ehud Barak, Israeli military intelligence (AMAN) begins arming and training anti-Western Hezb-i-Islami terrorists in Pakistan, including Osama bin Laden.

    1987 – Two of Isser Harel’s senior Mossad agents, Avraham Shalom Bendor and Zvi Malkin, get the security contract for World Trade Center; Port Authority cancels the contract when their criminal history is discovered.

    1990 – Rejected by Port Authority due to criminal conviction in Israel, Shalom Bendor goes to work for Jules Kroll.

    1993 FEB – Zionists manage prosecution of WTC bombing: Israeli-American Michael Chertoff, U.S. Attorney for New Jersey, plays key role in prosecution. Zionist Judge Michael Mukasey presides over case against “Blind Sheikh.” FBI informant Emad Salem is paid one million dollars for his testimony. Media leads public to believe that Muslims want to destroy the Twin Towers.

    1993 – After first WTC bombing Kroll Associates gets security contract for the Port Authority and the WTC.

    1994 – After losing Saudi and Pakistani support, the Israeli-trained “remainder of Hezb-i-Islami merges into al-Qaeda and the Taliban.”

    1998 DEC – Philip Zelikow’s Catastrophic Terrorism Study Group publishes report “Imagining Transforming Event” in Foreign Affairs (CFR). Co-authors Ashton Carter and John Deutch work for Global Technology Partners, an exclusive affiliate of Rothschild N.A.

    1999 – Hugo Neu creates a global trading division headed by two veteran ferrous metal traders from Marc Rich and Glencore AG in Switzerland. A lot of expense and effort is spent to prepare a network to export scrap iron to Asia while its price is at the lowest level in 50 years. Hugo Neu and the state share the costs of dredging the Claremont channel to allow large ocean-going ships to Asia.

    2000 SEP – A Neo-Con group, Project for the New American Century (PNAC) suggests that “a catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor” may be necessary to facilitate “the process of transformation” they call for in U.S. military policy. Ten signers of the PNAC document, including Dick Cheney, were in senior positions of the Bush administration in 2001.

    2001 – Israeli Mossad company ICTS controls security screening at U.S. Airports on 9/11. Directors include Yair Shamir, son of notorious Israeli terrorist Yitzhak Shamir.

    2001 – Israeli intelligence creates false histories for alleged hijackers. Israeli spies posing as “art students” live near hijacker patsies. Duplicate documents are used to create false histories, standard procedure for Mossad false-flag operations.

    2001 – Ronald Lauder manages Governor George Pataki’s privatization scheme which includes WTC property. Lauder funds Lauder School of Government, Diplomacy and Strategy at Mossad center (IDC) where Israeli Major General Daniel Rothschild heads Institute for Policy and Strategy.

    2001 JUL 24 – Larry Silverstein gets lease for World Trade Center. Silverstein obtains lease thru fellow Zionist agent Lew Eisenberg, chairman of the Port Authority. Silverstein and Eisenberg are both members of UJA board, major Zionist fundraising organization. Since 1996, Silverstein has close contact with Netanyahu; every Sunday afternoon Netanyahu calls Silverstein. Silverstein immediately raises rents by 40% for the few tenants he has.

    2001 SEP 11 – Ehud Olmert, Israel’s deputy prime minister, is on an unreported visit in New York City. Why is it secret? While all civilian planes are grounded, at 4:11 p.m. an El Al Boeing 747 takes off from JFK bound for Tel Aviv. The flight is authorized by the direct intervention of the U.S. Department of Defense.

    9/11 – Alex Brown, a firm with ties to Israeli military intelligence and Yair Shamir’s company Scitex has many of the suspicious “put” options. “Buzzy” Krongard, executive director of the CIA, headed AB until 1998. His wife works for Rothschild Asset Management.

    9/11 – Israeli government receives the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to be in the area of the WTC or Pentagon on 9/11. Odigo, an Israeli messaging company, is used to send warning several hours before attacks. Four Israelis die at WTC.

    9/11 – Five Israelis working for Urban Moving Systems are arrested on 9/11 after being seen photographing and celebrating the attack on the WTC. The fake moving company is later found to be a front for the Mossad. Two of the Israelis are known Mossad.

    9/11 – Israeli military chief Ehud Barak interprets 9/11 on BBC and Sky News in London, blaming Osama bin Laden and calling for U.S. to “launch an operational, concrete, war against terror.” Barak is Netanyahu’s commander in the Sayeret Matkal, a covert commando force of Israeli military intelligence. Other Israeli commandos (e.g. Daniel Lewin) are involved in 9/11. Bin Laden denies responsibility for 9/11.

    9/11 – Netanyahu praises 9/11 atrocity to NYT: “It’s very good… it will generate immediate sympathy.” In 2008, he says in Israel: “We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.”

    9/11 – An Israeli controls 9-11 investigation. John Ashcroft puts Israeli dual-national Michael Chertoff in charge of 9/11 investigation. “For day-to-day decisions, Chertoff has the last word.” Destruction of crucial evidence begins immediately

    9/11 – Two Zionist-owned junkyards manage hasty destruction and exportation of evidence using large ships bound for Asia able to load at Hugo Neu because the Claremont Channel has been dredged since 1999.

    Post 9/11 – Zionist with conflict of interest presides over 9/11 lawsuit: Judge Alvin Hellerstein manages 9-11 tort litigation, while his son is lawyer in Israel with firm that represents ICTS, key defendant in 9/11 litigation. Hellerstein dismisses ICTS and every 9/11 case is settled out of court.

    Post 9/11 – Zionists manage compensation funds: Kenneth Feinberg and Sheila Birnbaum oversee compensation settlements for 9/11 families. Not a single case goes to trial. No 9/11 discovery occurs in court.

    2003 MAR – Zionists control 9/11 myth: Appointed director of 9/11 Commission, Philip Zelikow frames the agenda and decides what evidence the commission sees. A specialist in “public myths,” Zelikow comes to commission with complete outline of report – before staff even begins working.

    Until 2011 – Israelis construct 9/11 memorial and legacy: WTC memorial is designed by Israeli Michael Arad, son of Moshe Arad, former Israeli ambassador to the United States.

    Until today – Controlled media ignores crucial 9/11 questions and evidence. Media pushes false narrative about 9/11 and the War on Terror while ignoring evidence that disproves the official myth.

  166. I don’t know what to think of this. Seems like Israel is being set up for destruction sometimes. Why are they even releasing this? Surely they would have destroyed it if they didn’t want it released. None of this is an accident. Why haven’t all the youtube videos accusing Israel been removed? Sure, I think the Israelis were involved, but this is much bigger than just Israel.

    I know folks here like to keep things simple, its easy to just scream about Da Jews!, but this is a much bigger network of criminality. The entire system is corrupt, immoral, criminal and evil. This isn’t just a few people, one country or one political party.

    Some words from Nasrallah

    The path of U.S.-Israeli arrogance and domination, with its various dimensions, and with its direct and indirect extensions and alliances, which is witnessing military defeats and political failures, reflected successive defeats for the American strategies and plans, one after the other. All this has led [the U.S.] to a state of indecision, retreat, and inability to control the progress of events in our Arab and Islamic world. There is a broader international context for this – a context that, in its turn, helps to expose the American crisis, and the decline of the [U.S.] unipolar hegemony, in the face of pluralism, the characteristics of which are yet to be stabilized.

    “The crisis of the arrogant world order is deepened by the collapse of U.S. and international stock markets, and by the confusion and powerlessness of the American economy. This reflects the height of the structural crisis of the model of capitalist arrogance. Therefore, it can be said that we are in the midst of historic transformations that foretell the retreat of the USA as a hegemonic power, the disintegration of the unipolar hegemonic order, and the beginning of the accelerated historic decline of the Zionist entity.

    After World War II, the U.S. has adopted the leading, central hegemonic project. At its hands, this project has witnessed great development of the means of control and unprecedented subjugation. It has benefited from an accumulation of multi-faceted accomplishments in science, culture, technology, knowledge, economy, and the military, which was supported by an economic political plan that views the world as nothing but open markets subject to the laws of [the U.S.].

    “The most dangerous aspect of Western logic of hegemony in general, and the American logic of hegemony in particular, is their basic belief that they own the world, and have the right to hegemony due to their supremacy in several fields. Thus, the Western, and especially American, expansionist strategy, when coupled with the enterprise of capitalist economy, has become a strategy of a global nature, whose covetous desires and appetite know no bounds.

    The barbaric capitalism has turned globalism into a means to spread disintegration, to sow discord, to destroy identities, and to impose the most dangerous form of cultural, economic, and social plunder. Globalization reached its most dangerous phase, when it was transformed into military globalization by the owners of the Western hegemony enterprise, the greatest manifestation of which was evident in the Middle East, from Afghanistan to Iraq, to Palestine, and to Lebanon.

    There is no doubt that American terrorism is the source of all terrorism in the world. The Bush administration has turned the U.S. into a danger threatening the whole world, on all levels. If a global opinion poll were held today, the United States would emerge as the most hated country in the world.

    The most important goal of American arrogance is to take control of the peoples politically, economically, and culturally, and to plunder their resources.

    Hassan Nasrallah December 8, 2009

  167. Pegasus says:
    @dirtyharriet

    Of course the second comment has to be from some random dude trying to pin the blame on the Muslims: the Saudi Lobby and his team of neocons with dual Saudi American citizenship working within the USG. Cool story bro. My hasbara detector is overheating a bit right now, my man. Hahaha

    Anyway, let’s not forget where all this nonsense started, the 1983 US Embassy bombing in Beirut, where the phony “Muslim war on America” officially kicked off. And the perpetrators? the “Islamic Jihad Organization”, an obscure terrorist group that came literally out of nowhere and was supposedly sponsored by, wait for it, Iran and Syria.

    Does this cool story sound familiar? It gets even better. In october of that very same year, two truck bombs killed 307 people, 241 of which were American military personnel. The Islamic Jihad Organization strikes again. The Muslim war on America intensifies.

    And now the funniest part: one Viktor Ostrovsky, former Mossad operative, claimed in his book By Way of Deception that the Mossad had coincidentally prior knowledge of exactly when and where the bombing was going to happen, and that in spite of them being the intelligence agency of America’s most closed and trusty ally, they kept their mouths shut. So the Dancing Shlomos incident was not the first time Israel has been accused of having precise foreknowledge of a terrorist attack and letting it happen.

    And all this only 3 years after yet another obscure terrorist group, FLLF, almost killed the American ambassador in Beirut, John Gunther Dean. And again a pretty solid case was made against the Mossad being behind it all.

    Islamic Jihad Organization => Al-Qaeda => ISIS => ?

    This stuff never gets old folks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombings#Mossad_conspiracy_theory

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_States_embassy_bombing_in_Beirut

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gunther_Dean#Dean_and_Israel

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @dirtyharriet
  168. @Sean

    Well I for one have always found the comments by El Dato to be far more influential than any of your own comments. I don’t use the commenters to ignore feature but I do consider the source when perusing the comments and you are one of the least credible commenters on here. I’m inclined to think that many others would agree.

  169. Hassan Nasrallah: Israel is only a US tool

    [MORE]

    Hassan Nasrallah: US ruled by huge Oil & Weapons Corporations

    Hassan Nasrallah on the Oil and Gas Wars Raging in the Middle East (1)

    Hassan Nasrallah on the Oil and Gas Wars Raging in the Middle East (2)

    Nasrallah on ‘real reason’ why US continues 40 years of war on Iran

    Hassan Nasrallah: Israel does NOT control America
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/Q72ZRvx3ztMu/

  170. @Patrikios Stetsonis

    I agree with you 100% Patrikiouli mou.

  171. Richard B says:
    @AnonStarter

    I’d be satisfied with a “YAWN” rating option.

    Sounds good to me. Franklin’s suggestion too.

  172. @Anonymous

    As with all intelligence operations, there is always a layered “limited hangout” plan if parts of the operation are exposed.

    The Saudis are the first layer–and we haven’t really gotten all the way there yet.

    The second layer would probably be individual US military leaders (air defense, for example) who would be accused of dereliction of duty–or corruption. At this point most of these people are already in nursing homes.

    The third layer might be intelligence operatives (individuals) from US intelligence who might be exposed and accused of treason. It is highly unlikely we will get there until they are long dead.

    As to the actual truth of all of the key plotters and their plan, that has a very strong and resilient bodyguard of lies protecting it. The Israeli involvement (which imho included setting demolition charges in all structures destroyed that day) is part of what is hidden here. The key role of the media in spreading lies and propaganda as needed is also hidden behind the inner walls.

  173. @Twodees Partain

    You appear to be “shooting the messenger” there. I didn’t detect anything dishonest or intentionally needling in Alfred’s comment, it’s a simple case of the truth hurts. The attacks were a pivotal geopolitical event and thus are everyone’s business.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  174. ValmMond says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    As I said, nothing personal. You might well be a tall, smart and handsome scholar of formal logic at some first rate Balkan academic institution. It’s your rambling comments and non-sequiturs that give people the wrong idea.

    How can one distinguish between an “intellectual” & “pseudo-intellectual”

    Here’s one way. The “pseudo” variety tends to engage in long, disjointed digressions so that everyone can appreciate how erudite and so much smarter they actually are. But by all means, tells us more about Hegel, the Pre-Socratics and the other philosophers we’ve never heard of or had the chance to read. Conspiracies have kept us so busy…

  175. Anything you get from the US authorities about 9/11 is what we already know and it will never be anything to really implicate the perps simply because they together with the Mossad are the actually perps. The authorities are in any case mainly a bunch of brown nosing who will do anything to please higher ups and they end up constantly deceiving the common people in pulling off shit like 9/11 so that they can keep manipulating, controlling, and walking over their faces

  176. On 9/11…CBS NEWS rebroadcast over and over again an interview from a year earlier with Bin Laden’s second in command…his personal physician…..He told the CBS News Reporter(interview in Pakistan)….”America….very easy…very easy…America is an open society…very easy……”

    9/11 happened because White Males were more interested in the bacterial count in Tom Brady’s jockstrap…then the fact that they were being voted into a White Racial Minority within the borders of America by Muslim “Americans”…..I am certain that Muslim “Americans” knew something was going to happen…..especially Pakistani “American” High School Students in Brooklyn NY….

  177. @Pegasus

    HI Pegasus,

    Now that’s funny.

    Nobody has ever accused me of trying to run interference for Israel.

    I’ve been around a long time, but I don’t post that much. Can you see my old posts if you click on my screen name?

    dirtyharriet0 on Yahoo (I’m most likely at Yahoo fighting the prolific Hasbara brigades) and Twitter.

  178. Anon[428] • Disclaimer says:

    Listen to President John F. Kennedy trying to warn the nation about planned 9-11 attack before he was assassinated. Exercise your right to be informed about 9-11 to learn what factst that the chosenites have should never see the light of day.

    [MORE]

  179. DaveE says:
    @Ghali

    Think of Saudi Arabia as Israel South. They were created right along side each other, by the same people: The Rothschilds, the British Army (Lawrence of Arabia, etc.) and a lot of toadies from BP who wanted control of the oil. Also a great way for the Jews to say, “We own you. Bow to Mecca all you want, but we now OWN Mecca.”

    • Agree: Rabbitnexus
    • Replies: @Rabbitnexus
  180. @renfro

    Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze……the (((FBI))) isn’t going to “nail Israel.”

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  181. Greg S. says:

    I believe James Perloff’s ideas are quite relevant to the Mossad-9/11 connection. Here is a quote from one of his articles:

    I believe there were hijackers on 9/11. But they weren’t Arabs. They were elite Israeli special ops, most probably Danny Lewin’s unit Sayeret Matkal, using Arab IDs (except for Lewin). Not even Mossad would be entrusted with an operation of such military caliber. Darker men who could pass for Arabs would have been selected for the mission.

    Unlike Hani Hanjour and the rest of the Arab patsies, who couldn’t control little Cessnas at 65 nauts at flight-training schools, these special ops would have had months of training on Boeing 757s and 767s, plenty of which were in El Al’s (Israel’s) fleet:

    https://www.planespotters.net/airline/El-Al-Israel-Airlines
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al

    They would have practiced cockpit invasion countless times, probably using a Boeing in an Israeli hangar, using real people play-acting as the “American pilots and crews” who would have to be overwhelmed. “Good work; that took nine seconds; let’s see if we can get it down to eight.”

    How would Israeli commandos invade the cockpit so quickly? Mary Ellen Moore, co-producer of the movie I scripted, ShadowRing, was a career flight attendant. She tells me tells me cockpit doors were standardly locked by 2001 to guard against hijacking. The attendants did keep a cockpit key in a secret location in case of emergency. I recently asked Mary Ellen if the key-lock set was unique for each Boeing cockpit, or was it universal? She wasn’t sure, so she asked a pilot friend, who told her that, up until 9/11, it was universal.

    https://jamesperloff.com/2017/06/30/911-simplified/

  182. @JimDandy

    Me too and I can’t find them. What is up? I hope they’re OK. Such a long absence on such a great article full of uncomfortable facts about Rothschildlandia has me worried for the poor things. I bet they’re overworked and underpaid.

  183. @DaveE

    You get my Golden Buzzer of the day.

  184. bjondo says:

    Have the blank 28 pages
    been released
    yet?

  185. Art says:

    Further evidence that higher-ups in the administration intervened is the fact that then-Attorney General John Ashcroft personally signed off on the detainees’ release. Upon his entering the private sector as a lobbyist and consultant in 2005, the Israeli government became one of Ashcroft’s first clients.

    Just think how different the world would be if Ashcroft did his sworn duty and truly investigate the Jew role in 9/11.

    No Afghan War – no Iraq War – no Syrian War – Libya a whole country.

    The thought is staggering.

  186. “No need for any “rumor mill.” These Israelis were shepherds.”

    Well, you’ve moved beyond mere dismissal of the obvious. Look these whirling Jewish dancers is not new. Less than a week after 9/11, I listened to tales about how Muslims were whisked out of the country.

    There are a myriad possibilities that need one essential component —

    suspicious circumstances are not sufficient.

  187. JP says:
    @Sean

    I was going to write my own comment, but after checking the thread, found a better reply.
    See comment 123 by Hans.
    He nailed it, better than I could. The dancing Israelis were trying to frame Palestinians for the attack.

  188. phiz says:

    Have to admit I had never considered that the dancing/moving/cheering Israelis on 9/11 could be a intelligence operation creating false evidence for Israeli involvement. A few people’s comments above made me consider this. How could people pulling off such a massive and well executed crime be so sloppy? Bomb residue in van, f**king box cutters, and other equally stupid stuff including driving around a van with a mural depicting a plane flying into the WTC towers!?

    Who would benefit from this?

    Could explosives have been engineered into the WTC buildings from the beginning?

  189. “As I was running up Vesey, the first car blew up on me on the corner of Vessey and the
    West Side Highway. That set my turnout coat on fire, that set my hair on fire, and that
    set my feet on fire. I kept running. I got news for you, those turn out coats need to be
    called burn out coats, cause this thing caught up in flames. “
    http://www.serendipity.li/wot/9110048.PDF

    It appears that ‘cars’ ‘blew up’?

    Is there any explanation for this?

    • Replies: @z
  190. @Hans

    Readers ought to click on– and digest – that video link you provided, pulled out from the proverbial memory hole and worth storing on personal computer hard drives. Those who planned the various operations that occurred on September 11, 2001 could not have known that YouTube would be founded a few years later, in 2005.

    With regard to three of those “dancing Israelis” apprehended while driving a van very close to the George Washington bridge, note the voice of the female correspondent, beginning at 4:54 minutes, reporting over a phone line the information she had received from two sources, not wishy-washy, or vague, but very clear:

    …law enforcers found tons of explosives inside of the van.

    In their zeal to be the first to report breaking news on the air, correspondents merely function as messengers and do not reflect upon whether to indulge in self-censorship when the identities of suspects are not yet known, and especially not toward the end of that particular day.

    Perhaps Whitney Webb may already be working on Part 2 of this story because there is much more to this theme that she has not yet written about.

    Understanding the severity of their purported involvement in an operation to blow up the only bridge connecting Manhattan with New Jersey necessarily ought to raise the questions: Why were these guys released, and what efforts were involved to make it happen?

    Alan Dershowitz and two New York congressmen were involved in the talks for their release.

    “The reputable Israeli daily Ha’aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified “prominent New York congressmen” were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government.”

    This is quoted by Veterans Today, which also provides information that would support the possibility of the Washington bridge having been augmented with the same type of thermite that took down the three World Trade Center towers. Furthermore, the article speculates that sabotaging an American Airlines passenger jet, thereby causing it to crash in the borough of Queens upon take-off, may have been associated with efforts to apply pressure on the local authorities to release the amateurish dancers.

    https://www.veteranstodayarchives.com/2010/11/19/release-of-the-‘dancing-israelis’-coincidence-or-blackmail/

    • Replies: @Hans
  191. @Been_there_done_that

    I remember watching him on the B.B.C. in a panel discussion on the day and he looked very happy. Another member of the panel – a Kurd – later said that off-camera he was almost ecstatic. Make of that what you will.

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  192. Sean says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    No pulling the wool over your eyes

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=114&v=tp19qiash2U

    Here are a couple of funny Jewish jokes.

    IsraelPM Netanyahu’s son to Ehud Barak: ‘Were you drunk?’

    Former PM Barak says Netanyahu’s son ‘needs a psychiatrist.’ Yair Netanyahu does not take it lying down.

    Uzi Baruch, 09/09/17
    Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s son Yair responded to a Facebook post by former Prime Minister Ehud Barak. In the post, Barak slammed Yair Netanyahu, writing, “Is this what the kid hears at home? What is this, genetics or a spontaneous mental illness? It doesn’t matter. At any rate, it would be really worth it to pay for a psychiatrist for him, instead of a personal security detail and private vehicle.” Yair Netanyahu responded, “I hope Ehud Barak did not tweet about me from his Boston residence (where he goes from one dubious business deal to another) while he is drunk (which I remember him as often being). It’s time for a geriatric doctor, Ehud.”

    And these are the people you think did 9/11?

  193. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    Have you perhaps heard of the bikers who beat a driver up in NYC and turned out to be off duty cops. or Louis Eppolito and Stephen Caracappa the NYPD detectives who murdered eight people . Or Epstein’s ex cop former cellmate who is awaiting trial for four murders.

    Or the unfortunate man who had his his bowel ruptured whan a jagged broomstick was rammed up his rectum in a NYPD station house by cops. On a day when thousands had died including many police absolutely anything could have happened to those students. Voluntarily attracting attention by implicating themselves like that would have required devotion to duty of North Korean suicide commando level.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  194. Is it merely a coincidence that 9/11 happened on Tisha B’av or was it planned that way ?

    • Replies: @ValmMond
  195. @Art

    Five trillion less debt, on which the interest alone could be going towards repairing infrastructure to benefit US taxpayers.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  196. @AnonStarter

    I must also thank you for your comment to BK in response to his trolling. Sticking to your point was a solid means of highlighting the basic fact that Mossad was culpable in the 911 atrocity and is still active in the US to this day. Good work, AS. Keep it up.

  197. @Art

    I read a blog article on that subject yesterday and noticed that the MSN writer had included the laughable idea that spying on Hannity, Giuliani and Wynn would have been necessary for Mossad to learn anything about their communications with Trump.

  198. @NoseytheDuke

    “The attacks were a pivotal geopolitical event and thus are everyone’s business.”

    Apparently, you missed the part of his first comment that claimed the American people had no recourse but to leave America. That isn’t any kind of truth that hurts, it was trolling, and I fell for it and fed the troll. His kind wouldn’t dream of saying that to one of us face to face.

    I fell for his trolling. It appears that you did as well, but in a different way.

  199. @Robert Dolan

    True, and the idea that they are actually trying to do so would only occur to someone like renfro.

  200. “To cover up this story, the U.S. Justice Department rounds up over 1000 Arabs for minor immigration violations and places them in New York area jails. The Israelis therefore become less conspicuous as the government and media can now claim that the Israelis were just immigration violators caught in the same dragnet as many other Arabs.”

    Except that according to the record that is not what the government acknowledges. The record provided here states that Israelis were in fact Israeli agents and two with connections to Mossaad.

    That in my view is not a mere immigration dragnet round up cover story. And what led to their capture was a phone call about men dancing as they watched the attack.

  201. @Alden

    So you responded to my first comment on the matter (#48) without having read it (or understanding it)?

    I said:

    “However, it is even more essential to note that these “warnings” were not detailed, actionable warnings, but a calculatedly deceptive inculpation; part of a psyop whereby the “government” could pin the blame for 9/11 on ‘al Qaeda’ without any kind of an investigation.”

    • Replies: @Alden
  202. @Twodees Partain

    “So, you’re not an American, but you want to needle us. This is none of your business, Alfred. Mind your own business if you have any to mind.”

    I would have to disagree. Considering the apparent motive and the global consequences, the 9/11 crime is the business of every decent person in the whole world.

    (And if the governments of Russia and China ignore the recent “smoking gun” engineering study by Hulsey et al. and do not challenge the evil empire by bringing the issue of 9/11 before the UN, I will hold them in even more contempt than I do now).

  203. @Art

    On top of what NoseytheDuke said, NO millions of dead, orphans and crippled people, plus those illegal aliens they flooded Europe every day.

  204. Larry Silverstein – New WTC7 designed in 2000

  205. @Harold Smith

    Russia and China ignore the recent “smoking gun” engineering study by Hulsey et al. and do not challenge the evil empire by bringing the issue of 9/11 before the UN, I will hold them in even more contempt than I do now

    They are more likely to launch a first strike nuclear attack against the US than they are to “bring the issue of 9/11 before the UN”.

    9/11 was a joint intelligence operation (of at least three countries imho). Intelligence agencies have each other blackmailed–so they cannot just “out” each others operations. To do so would be a de facto declaration of war–in which case they might as well launch the nuclear first strike anyway…

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Harold Smith
  206. Hans says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    BeenThere, thanks for pulling that quote out. I remember a couple of videos years back with local news, NY area, covering the explosive-laden van that was stopped.

    The arrest of the Dancing Israelis (Sivan Kurzberg, Paul Kurzberg, Omer Marmari, Yaron Shmuel, and Oded Ellner) was front page news in the Bergen Record 0n 9/12.

    The NY Times did think it worth noting til later November, but then the Times was winning (((Pulitzer))) Prizes in the 1930s with Walter Duranty’s lies covering up the Bolshevik slaughter.

    3 of the 5, the prat boys, appeared on TV in Israel where they “honestly” claimed not to be Mossad as the Kurzbergs were not with them. Love to watch the Adam’s apple on the pos at the 1:36 mark –

    All 9/11 Airports Serviced by One Israeli Owned Company – http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ICTS.html

  207. @Ron Unz

    They (like “Sean”) suffer from the “Fievel Mousekewitz” syndrome.
    Once you suspect there is a rat in your house, you fry a piece of Parmesan cheese and set the trap.

    Next day Voila! There is Fievel !

  208. Sean says:
    @Justvisiting

    Russia was not scared to do things in the Ukraine, even though that country had all sorts of security guarantees from the West. Russia would do something if it thought a crazy conspiracy was in charge of America. They would have to.

    • Agree: Harold Smith
    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  209. Dreaming of a World of Flesh – Snordster

  210. ValmMond says:
    @9/11 Inside job

    9/11 didn’t happen on Tisha B’Av. In 2001 Tisha B’Av fell on Sunday, July 29.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  211. Hans says:

    There’s also the issue of Israeli “art students” inside the WTC buildings:

    Israeli Art Students – http://www.chuckmaultsby.net/id145.html

    Kosher Certified Media:

  212. @Justvisiting

    “9/11 was a joint intelligence operation (of at least three countries imho). Intelligence agencies have each other blackmailed–so they cannot just “out” each others operations.”

    Nonsense; “intelligence agencies” are merely another arm of the “establishment” of a country. And the “establishment” that runs the U.S. is not the same one that runs Russia or China.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @Robjil
  213. After finding out about the holohoax nothing surprises me anymore.

    • Agree: Just another serf
  214. @Rutger Spuds

    I remember watching him on the B.B.C. in a panel discussion on the day and he looked very happy.

    Yes, I saw that too. He was probably hanging out at the BBC all afternoon and evening (London time) to direct the propaganda offensive. The perfect timing of his presence, his rehearsed proclamations, and over-confident performance were altogether far too suspicious. Millions of others surely also noticed this when they saw him.

    It is difficult even for military types to restrain their exuberance under such circumstances, just as the amateur dancers could not constrain their glee and did not suspect that a woman looking through 7×33 binoculars from afar would see and write down the license plate number of their moving van and report it to the police.

    So much of this is already OLD NEWS, known to many. For instance, where do you think the super-thermite that was used to blow up the World Trade Center towers came from? Likely from a suburb of Philadelphia, probably transported from there to New York by the Urban Moving Systems squad.

    Here is an excerpt, from 2010, by 9-11 researcher Christopher Bollyn, who has published about the event, gone on speaking tours, and appeared on KPFA, a Berkeley radio station, to talk about this stuff.

    One of the key aspects of 9-11 that Barak needed to arrange was the production and application of an advanced form of super-thermite, an extremely powerful explosive produced using nano-technology. In 2001, SCP Partners happened to have a suitable company in their portfolio, a private company called Metallurg Holdings, Inc., which has its office in Wayne, Pennsylvania.

    SCP Partners, where Ehud Barak worked from 2001 until 2007, clearly had the capability in 2001 to produce nano-composite explosives like the super-thermite used to pulverize the World Trade Center on 9-11. There are very few companies or countries in the world that had the capability to manufacture super-thermite in 2001, but Ehud Barak and his SCP Partners did.

    Read the entire piece here:
    How Ehud Barak Pulled Off 9-11
    https://forum.termometropolitico.it/63397-how-ehud-barak-pulled-off-9-11-a.html

    At the SCM Partners web site Ehud Barak is still listed as a former member of their team:
    http://www.scppartners.com/team_detail_02.html

    So why would Barak not have been happy at the end of the day? It is unclear if at that time the purported George Washington Bridge demolition operation had already been thwarted by police.

    • Replies: @Sean
  215. @Sean

    Russia would do something if it thought a crazy conspiracy was in charge of America. They would have to.

    I think they are already “doing something”; e.g., arming themselves with new weapons to defeat the so-called “missile shield”; at least meekly defending their own geopolitical interests (e.g. in Ukraine, Syria and Venezuela); and trying to convince “the West” to get back to the rule of law and accept a multi-polar world.

    It remains to be seen what effect if any the new 9/11 study will have, but if Putin has any brains and guts he will have to reevaluate his position on 9/11 and implications (as revealed in his erstwhile statements on the subject).

    • Replies: @Sean
  216. Hans says:
    @AnonStarter

    AnonS, looking forward to the day that Armitage, Dershowitz, et al take the leap. Dick A is in the lower left. More on (((PNAC))) at http://hugequestions.com/Eric/TFC/FromOthers/list-of-neocons-for-Iraq-war.htm

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  217. no doubt in my mind who the enemy is

  218. @Ghali

    I agree 100%. Also, what would be their motive? Why would they do this? The government’s 911 BS story is about creating hatred toward Muslims and Arabs. How could the Saudis benefit from that?
    Yes, the Saudi thing is a red herring designed to shift attention away from Jews and Israel.

  219. phiz says:
    @Harold Smith

    If a person only uses logic to study events they will only ever be studying what has already happened. Speculation is required to figure out things before they happen.

    With that being said, who gives a sh*t what happened to Epstein?

  220. @Harold Smith

    “intelligence agencies” are merely another arm of the “establishment” of a country. And the “establishment” that runs the U.S. is not the same one that runs Russia or China.

    They are not the _same_, but they have more in common with each other than they do with the
    “public” they need to dupe.

    This is cleaned up for public consumption but this gives a few examples (in the Russia/US case)–there is a lot of one on one contact and co-operation:

    https://www.americansecurityproject.org/us-russia-relationship/us-russia-cooperation/

    Their shared interest is in maintaing and increasing the power base of their respective organizations.

    That is how bureaucracy works around the world.

    In any event it is the intelligence agencies of the US, Saudi Arabia, and Israel that were behind 911 imho–the neo-cons in the US wanted the military industrial complex to prosper, and both Israel and the Saudis could not survive with an isolationist US that was on the horizon without “A New Pearl Harbor”.

    Tulsi is finding out the hard way what happens to folks who try to take on these types of forces–they do not play by gentlemen’s rules.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  221. Sean says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    Yes Ehud Barak is a master of manipulation and undercover special operations, and that is why he went to Epstein’s mansion in 2016 and got himself photographed by British tabloid journalists.

  222. @Justvisiting

    You’re simply full of shit.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  223. Sean says:
    @Colin Wright

    When it comes to Israel, never become both conspicuous and inconvenient.

    Yes, Epstein’s arrest and pleading guilty to under age sex crimes was a big secret, especially since the defamation case in 2015 in which all those names were bandied about in the Daily Mail. Mossad doesn’t waste a minute.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  224. @ValmMond

    Thank you for the correction , I must have been getting confused with the death of Jeffrey Epstein which apparently happened on the first day of Tisha B’Av , just a coincidence ?

  225. tac says:

    For those who have not watched the 9/11 NY Fire Commissioner Press Conference (including architect Richard Gage of AE911Truth and David Meiswinkle president of the Lawyers’ Committee for 9/11 Inquiry) highly recommend watch the full video:

    Also a great presentation (has over 2M views) from Architects and Engineers On 9/11:

    • Replies: @dirtyharriet
  226. Sean says:
    @Harold Smith

    The Russians would have had 18 years, having known instantly, and they would have told the world immediately.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Harold Smith
  227. @Harold Smith

    What do I know–just retired from a huge bureaucracy and I learned some stuff. 🙂

    “Public policy” is propaganda for the great unwashed and college sophomores.

  228. Anon[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    The Russians would have had 18 years, having known instantly, and they would have told the world immediately.

    An unfounded conclusion that ignores at least three crucial variables that anyone with a lukewarm IQ would immediately recognize:

    1. That the “Russians”, having long ago been decimated by Jewish communism, may be still beholden to if not controlled by a related force to the one that executed the Russian monarchy (Jews).

    This would be the common sense conclusion given communism’s long tenure in Russia and the joke of a “revolution” that supposedly occurred to nominally end communism in Russia (ideologically freeing Europe to create a mirror Soviet system via the EU).

    If there are Jewish tentacles at the head of or otherwise decisively influencing the Russian government, then they would not want to create a tipping point of mass hostility toward Jews in the USA. If there are Jewish tentacles at the head of the Russian government, then they would want there to be a timed simultaneous collapse / mass conflict of all Western nations, per the anti-Western apocalyptic decrees in the Zohar, and not off-timing single nation retreads into mass nationalist defense.

    2. That the obvious long-term sociopolitical tumult as a result of the obviously questionable narrative of the 9/11 event is likely more damaging to this nation than the open revelation of a conspiracy that would cause a faster readjustment to normalcy.

    3. As a partial culmination of the prior two points: you simply don’t have the clearance level and resultant information to be able to tell us what the Russians “would have” done in the case that they knew anything. This point is something that anyone with a lukewarm IQ would recognize.

    And your “Irish” (Ary-ish) screen name “Sean” is condescending, kike. Which is likely the point. Kikes are notoriously bad at hiding condescension on their faces and in their speech. In my observation, it comes from a common over-estimation of their own intelligence, which is born of being told how special they are since leaving the womb of their Neanderthal mothers. Its one of your most maladaptive traits (it likely leads to lower survival rates over time than your group might otherwise have while living in host nations).

  229. Sean says:
    @Colin Wright

    Israeli intelligence agents

    Well they certainly were not very secret agents.

    When this old world starts getting me down
    And people are just too much for me to face
    I climb way up to the top of the stairs
    And all my cares just drift right into space
    On the roof, it’s peaceful as can be
    And there the world below can’t bother me
    Let me tell you now

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-03b15361771d0fa3e3518d97ae327f44

    Should have chosen a higher roof, but then they were supposed to be trying to divert police resources by being on that distant and comparatively low factory. Very obvious from the way they left before the police arrived they were trying to get arrested.

  230. @Sean

    /Voluntarily attracting attention by implicating themselves like that would have required devotion to duty of North Korean suicide commando level./

    https://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/

    I suggested to Stability that the operation, if it was that, was purposely conspicuous — almost oafish. “Yes, it was,” he replied. “It was a noisy operation. Did you ever see ‘Victor/Victoria’? It was about a woman playing a man playing a woman. Perhaps you should think about this from that aspect and ask yourself if you wanted to have something that was in your face, that didn’t make sense, that couldn’t possibly be them.” He added, “Think of it this way: How could the experts think this could actually be something of any value? Wouldn’t they dismiss what they were seeing?”

    Thats where you enter truly dark territory: Theory No. 3, the Art Student as Agent as Art Student Smoke Screen. It has major problems, but lets roll with it for a moment. This theory contends that the art student ring was a smoke screen intended to create confusion and allow actual spies — who were also posing as art students — to be lumped together with the rest and escape detection. In other words, the operation is an elaborate double fake-out, a hiding-in-plain-sight scam. Whoever dreamed it up thought ahead to the endgame and knew that the DEA-stakeout aspect was so bizarre that it would throw off American intelligence. According to this theory — Stability’s “Victor/Victoria” scenario — Israeli agents wanted, let’s say, to monitor al-Qaida members in Florida and other states. But they feared detection. So to provide cover, and also to create a dizzyingly Byzantine story that would confuse the situation, Israeli intel flooded areas of real operations with these bumbling “art students” — who were told to deliberately stake out DEA agents.

    I would amend the motive “monitor al Qaeda” to “shepherd the hijackers.”

    Now go on and proceed to offer another irrelevancy. It’s really all you’ve got.

  231. @Sean

    Sorry but that’s pure, unfounded speculation.

    • Replies: @Sean
  232. @Hans

    /AnonS, looking forward to the day that Armitage, Dershowitz, et al take the leap./

    Oh, I’m sure they’re in for a very rude awakening, as are their partners-in-crime.

    Sean and company want to produce cause to get Ron subpoenaed and their current effort here is undertaken to provoke commentary toward that end.

    If you’re already aware of this, ignore the heads-up.

    Take care.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Sean
  233. z says:
    @james charles

    Eddy currents from an EMP may be able to do that. Firefighters Scott packs were also exploding on 9/11. Notice how cars that were behind intact chain link fences were not burnt up? The fence may have acted like a faraday cage. There is evidence of some cars being burnt that were behind damaged fences, but it appears cars that were behind undamaged fences were protected.

    • Replies: @james charles
  234. @Harold Smith

    Read his initial comment. He’s a troll. You’re the second person on the thread to miss the entire point of the exchange. Congratulations.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  235. @Sean

    /Epstein’s arrest and pleading guilty to under age sex crimes/

    Where did he mention that this was the cause of their death?

    Obfuscation doesn’t befit you. You should really stick to provocation.

  236. No Muslims in OUR America….No 9/11…It’s no more complicated than this….

    Why are Muslims being imported into OUR AMERICA legally?

    Answer:So Muslim Americans can enthusiastically vote THE WORKING CLASS HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN MAJORITY into a violently persecuted White Racial Minority within the borders of America…..

    The “mystery” of 9/11 solved….

    • Troll: AnonStarter
  237. @War for Blair Mountain

    No Muslims in OUR America….No 9/11…It’s no more complicated than this….

    Typical hasbara deflection to blame those infernal muslims. Who is the “we” in the emphatic “OUR”, Kemo Sabe?

  238. @AnonStarter

    AnonStarter said: “Sean and company want to produce cause to get Ron subpoenaed and their current effort here is undertaken to provoke commentary toward that end.”

    Hey AnonStarter!

    Re your view above; the flyweight “Sean” couldn’t provoke sufficient commentary to get the Pope subpoenaed for farting while at Yad Vashem. Haha.

    Best to simply BDS little Sean, and let the more dishonestly intellectual & superior 😈hasbarist-trolls take care of what Ron Unz gallantly does. At present, ain’t none on the U.R. horizon.

    Thanks, AnonStarter.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  239. @Cloak And Dagger

    And it was 6-7 Muslim LEGAL IMMIGRANTS who almost knocked down the Twin Towers on a snowy February day…Feb 3….7 people were killed…..

    9/11 happened because of the stupidity of White Males…The Muslim “Americans” should have been mass expelled after the Iranian Hostage Crisis 4o years ago…every single one…..

    You call me a Hasbara Troll?…What a pinhead you are…

  240. Sean says:
    @Harold Smith

    If 9/11 had been a false flag the Russians would have known. Something that big would have resulted in unusual patterns of signals activity beforehand. They have their ways of detecting such patterns, and they had agents in government agencies too. If a conspiracy was controlling the US against the national interest that would be obvious in the actions taken by the USA.

    • Replies: @RudyM
  241. @Colin Wright

    /Zionists are filth./

    Not to suggest that you go easy on mcohen, but, respectfully, I have to disagree.

    Zionists are human, like the rest of us, and vulnerable to error, like the rest of us, but their choice of worldview is indescribably terrible. The pitiable aspect of it is that many are born and raised into it in such a way that makes abandoning it very difficult — a death sentence of sorts, decreed, upon apostasy, by their very own family. Others freer to embrace it are among the most ardent proponents of ethnic division and religious conflict, both of which serve to rationalize the existence of zionism. These are 100% committed to creating a singular ethos of Jewish supremacy, not merely in the Holy Land, but throughout the world; the rest of us just goybeans, ready to serve.

    It’s a formidable opponent, and you were correct in your earlier evaluation of Sean. Their convictions may be filth, but we shouldn’t underestimate their humanity as well, particularly when they’re aiming it directly at us.

  242. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    If he is right about half of what he says, something very much more drastic than a subpoena is on the cards.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  243. 9/11 happened because of the stupidity of White Males…The Muslim “Americans” should have been mass expelled after the Iranian Hostage Crisis 4o years ago…every single one…..

    Besides not explaining who “we” is in the “OUR” assertion, (((you))) now decide to pile on “White Males” as the next of your deflections.

    By your assertion, it follows that, from the top of my head:

    We should have expelled all zionists and sayanim from this country after the Lavon Affair
    We should have expelled all zionists after JFK’s murder
    We should have expelled all zionists after RFK’s murder
    We should have expelled all zionists after they corrupted the FBI and the CIA
    We should have expelled all zionists after USS Liberty
    We should have expelled all zionists after the 9/11 false flag blaming muslims
    We should have expelled all zionists after the quagmire in Afghanistan
    We should have expelled all zionists after the quagmire in Iraq
    We should have expelled all zionists after the disaster in Libya
    We should have expelled all zionists after the quagmire in Syria

    I won’t even go into the Federal Reserve, IRS, WW1, WW2, … wouldn’t have happened without you zionists. We wouldn’t be paying $3.8+ billion every year from our taxes to you. We wouldn’t have to bribe Egypt and other countries from our taxes to play nice with Israel.

    It is very clear to all that it is (((you))) that we should have expelled, then none of the above would have happened. Are “White Males” stupid as you claim, or is it because (((you))) took advantage of our goodness?

    You call me a Hasbara Troll?…What a pinhead you are…

    Well, everyone knows I am a “pinhead” – it’s a badge of honor coming from an Israeli shill. Perhaps you are not who you appear to be and are just ignorant. Please go educate yourself before blaming “White Males”.

    https://ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/history.html

    While many people are led to believe that U.S. support for Israel is driven by the American establishment and U.S. national interests, the facts don’t support this theory. The reality is that for decades U.S. foreign policy and defense experts opposed supporting the creation of Israel. They then similarly opposed the massive American funding and diplomatic support that sustained the forcibly established state and that provided a blank check for its aggressive expansion. They were simply outmaneuvered and eventually replaced.

    Stupid White Males, huh?

    • Replies: @tac
  244. @ChuckOrloski

    /Re your view above; the flyweight “Sean” couldn’t provoke sufficient commentary to get the Pope subpoenaed for farting while at Yad Vashem./

    [laughing]

    I’m inclined to agree with you and I’m glad that you think so, Chuck, but that’s probably because you’ve been familiar with this sort of thing for a longer period of time than many people here. You’re a vet, man. I can tell.

    Oftentimes, I try to write what may be obvious to many, though not necessarily to all. I sincerely never meant to suggest that Sean had any extraordinary powers of persuasion over his audience; I meant only to describe his intent, however ineffective it may seem.

    I will consider your wise counsel, however. How about we talk with each other while Sean, Bardon, and the rest of the kashrut koffee klatsch prattle on?

    There was a guy who was shepherded by an intelligence agency. They busted him on some trumped-up charge and then two men-in-black gave him an ultimatum while a rally for his release was staged outside the jail: head the organization we’ve established for you (as a false-flag) or do 99 years in the pen. He chose the latter.

    Of course, this is not the end of the story.

    I could tell you that man was me, or someone else, or a figment of my imagination, but regardless of this, the possibility of the story is 100%. Sean could come along and say or suggest it’s nonsense; never happened. Who is correct in the realm of possibility?

    Sean traffics in conjectural doubt, flinging probabilities and possibilities before us like so many horseapples and cowpies — yet nowhere nearly as valuable — in the hopes that one or another will stick and infect us with uncertainty; to the contrary, we consider the cumulative sum of facts and proceed to draw inference therefrom, avoiding unnecessary speculation to the extent we can. That big picture tells us that Israel’s involvement was certain — neither a matter of conjecture, nor one of debate.

    All that remains is the question of scope.

    And no, I use a different brand of mouthwash.

  245. @War for Blair Mountain

    I have 0 respect for 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists……But I believe it to be obvious that the Israelies knew that something was going to happen the week of 9/11…And it didn’t take any great brains and intelligence gathering capability that something was going to happen in the US…REALLY BIG….after the attack on the US Navy Ship in Yemen……………….A year prior to 9/11, Bin Laden’s second in command announced that Al QUEDA was going to commit a major Terrorist attack on US Soil during an interview with a CBS News Reporter in Pakistan one year exactly before 9/11….

    The NSA and the FBI were grossly incompetent in the year before 9/11…

    But ultimately, White Males are responsible for allowing 9/11 to occur…..White Males were more interested in counting the bacteria in Tom Brady’s jockstrap…then paying attention to the fact that the Muslim “American” Population was rapidly expanding on US SOIL because of the passage of the 1965 NONWHITE LEGAL IMMIGRANT INCREASE ACT……and as a consequence, allowing Muslim “Americans” to enthusiastically and LEGALLY VOTE White Christian Males into a White Racial Minority within the borders of America…

  246. @War for Blair Mountain

    The Dancing Israeli Art Students on a Hoboken NJ Rooftop on 9/11 makes it very very clear that AIPAC AND THE ADL are part of the Israeli-Jewish Fifth Column In America…AIPAC AND THE ADL…JE ACCUSE…..

  247. Art says:
    @Art

    Further evidence that higher-ups in the administration intervened is the fact that then-Attorney General John Ashcroft personally signed off on the detainees’ release. Upon his entering the private sector as a lobbyist and consultant in 2005, the Israeli government became one of Ashcroft’s first clients.

    John Ashcroft ranks as one of America’s greatest traitors. No honest person can ignore the Sep. 10 date stamp on the picture of the Jew, the lighter flame, and the twin towers. If Ashcroft had published that picture, the history of the world would be very different. That picture had the power to change history.

    Look at what was to follow – all the wars, the death, and the displacements. All on him.

    Ashcroft was not a fool – he knew the import – he knew what he was doing. He took the money.

    If there is an honest history of 9/11, John Ashcroft will be forever condemned.

    • Agree: annamaria
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  248. @Sean

    /If he is right about half of what he says, something very much more drastic than a subpoena is on the cards./

    Well, I was planning on ignoring you, but this comment deserves a question:

    How would you know?

    As far as you’re concerned, we’re overestimating Israeli influence and strength. Many have published material that zionists consider slanderous to their reputation and lived to tell about it.

    So is there something you know that you’re not sharing with the rest of us?

  249. Alden says:
    @Harold Smith

    It’s very difficult to determine if you were being sarcastic or believe Pres Bush should have done what thousands of government employees didn’t do. Try to express yourself more clearly if you don’t want readers to misunderstand.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  250. Adrian says:
    @Colin Wright

    Sean a pro? To me he seems to be a one trick pony. He keeps hammering home the same point: unless a point of view is backed by a gun it is not to be taken seriously. I don’t know in what street gang he imbibed that philosophy. If it had any validity no parliament (I mean a real one -not the bought and paid for American Congress) could have ever functioned effectively.

  251. MarkinLA says:
    @DaveE

    Do some googling on nuclear explosions. The US military has done a lot in trying to create battlefield nuclear weapons. Even the smallest nuclear bomb possible is in the order of tons of TNT equivalent. Even one such bomb would blow the building apart in all directions.

    • Replies: @DaveE
  252. @Adrian

    ‘Sean a pro? To me he seems to be a one trick pony. He keeps hammering home the same point: unless a point of view is backed by a gun it is not to be taken seriously…’

    He is trying to defend Israel. There isn’t much to work with, rhetorically speaking.

    However, yeah — Sean’s not too impressive.

    But then, what Zionist is impressive? Most of your more intelligent Jews tend to just sort of edge away from the subject — usually with an expression of distaste.

  253. @Anonymous

    And why would any ‘Islamic terrorist’ pick Logan Airport Boston on 9/11 when it was being guarded by Israelis Menachem Atzmon and Ezra Harel and their Shin Beit Mossad boys and have ‘Israeli high tech’ that would show the Saudis and Mohamed Atta waving goodbye as they mounted flights 11 and 175 for the historic record ?

  254. @Art

    Hey Art!

    Am wondering if John Ashcroft saw the Architects & Engineers “Must see” 9/11 video, linked below. Betcha’ the free wheelin’ “dancing Israelis” saw it? 🙁

    Am presuming evidence like this prompted formation of a S. Manhattan Grand Jury and complicit Shabbos goys, for example, Ashcroft, might fear to be (one day) uncomfortably “dancing” ’til he can’t no moe. Thanks a lot, Art, 👍!

    Selah, ah 1 and a 2, “there is no place like home than being home 🇮🇱, & way out of the A&E target range.”

    • Replies: @tac
  255. @9/11 Inside job

    Dark occult is one of those areas of human activities that is widely practiced and even
    more widely not recognized as existing. But the problem with making details of these
    practices known to the general population is not only in the barriers created by some
    powerful psychopaths .
    Due to the predominantly digital nature (apart the symbolism) of these details, those
    who have problems with comparing two fractions or understanding simple logic
    (alas, the majority) either see a proof in anything that “clicks”, or reject any proof that
    is too complicated to them (i.e., almost everything worthy).
    The first being far worse than second, lol.
    Nevertheless, the hidden knowledge (the certainty of its existence and wide practice,
    at least) is seeping out, and its irreversible.

  256. tac says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    C&D, nice to see you back posting. Hope is all well with you.

    I am now sure if you’ve gotten a chance to see/review the recently released WTC7 study by Dr Leroy Hulsey and his associates from the University of Alaska at Fairbanks (which is one of the best engineering Universities in the country), but you can download it here

    The simulations that they used (using software order of magnitude above and beyond that used by NIST, UAD made their input data available UNLIKE NIST due to ‘National Security threat’). Here is a short visual representation of the model:

    now compare that to

    the model based on NIST’s failure columns 76 to 81:

    or the failure of ALL core columns:

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
  257. @Andrew G. Benjamin

    And again Andrew Benjamin,Israelis of ICTS International were guarding Logan Airport where the two planes alleged to have struck the WTC originated from. Shouldn’t you be writing for the Israeli Thinker rather than the American Thinker ?

  258. @Twodees Partain

    I read his initial comment. I don’t see it as unreasonable at all. Sorry but your comment was unreasonable.

  259. @Alden

    The point of my original comment was crystal clear. I’m sorry that it somehow went over your head.

    • Replies: @Alden
  260. @War for Blair Mountain

    Yes,Jews are white males and so are the CIA and FBI usually.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  261. tac says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Chuck:

    Hope you learned something new from this video that I posted up the thread. What I really wanted to say is that if one were to choose a single picture frame encompassing 9/11 the still visible in that video would really sum it all up: Gravity does not work like that! The lateral explosions, from the center and outwards on all sides, proves explosives and incendiaries were involved. That still photo should be plastered all over the TV and Internet as a symbol of 9/11 with the heading (in the heading): ‘What is the definition of Treason?’ followed by (in the footer): ‘And the penalty for Treason?’

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  262. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:

    You seem to put a lot of trust in the study by the University of Alaska engineers. Maybe you can help with answers to some supplementary questions.
    1. What caused them to do that particular study? (Was there money involved? If so, how much?).
    2. Where can one find reviews of their study by reputable authorities?
    3. Have the authors a record of being accepted as experts in litigation where they have stood up successfully to cross-examination?
    4. Do those authors support what you say about “lateral explosions” or would they not accept that there will be horizontal vectors operating on structures crushed by gravity?

    • Replies: @tac
    , @annamaria
  263. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @tac

    See #272 as reply to you.

  264. @Adrian

    You and many others here are smart enough to see what Sean does. What we can’t assume, however, is that this will be so for everyone stumbling onto the site for the first time. We’ve had some fairly angry people here before and there’s no reason to imagine that there won’t be more. It’s a game of probability: all it takes is one provoked patsy.

    Whether or not that patsy takes his anger to an extreme is also uncertain, but the probability of it is reduced to zero when there’s no attempt at provocation at all.

    • Replies: @Sean
  265. tac says:
    @Anonymous

    Ahh, typical response that you (been paid or have other allegiances to make those assertions) would make. UAF presentation–that is what peer review is made for–JUST LIKE THE JEW SAYANIM WoZ always demands, yet somehow ALWAYS falls silent when his ‘side-of-the-argument’ is questioned. His response is full on non-requiters and straw-men arguments. We are unto you, whether you see it or not, and we understand your expulsions, numbering well over 109 by now.

    You have the temerity to ask me if I somehow ‘trust’ a study of UAF findings. That is what you JEWS always demand, but never have an answer for–a peer reviewed study! Come up with one of your own–one that provides the public with input data (AND MAKES NO EXCUSE FOR NOT DOING SO SIMPLY BECAUSE OF NATIONAL SECURITY)!!!

    UAF made their data imports available for public review–UNLIKE YOUR COMPLICIT GOVERNMENT AGENTS WHO SIMPLY COERCED NIST INTO MAKING A CONCLUSION FIT YOUR NARRATIVE (just like the Warren commission, et all)).

    What you and your government shills should really, really, and completely worry about is your days left. The rope and lampposts await your deserving necks, much like Thanksgiving produces an abundance of turkey necks which are cut and stuffed into its belly?! Caphiche!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  266. @Adrian

    ‘Sean a pro? ‘

    Thinking about this, I’d enjoy a thread where we compile a list of our various Zionists and rate them in various respects: ineffectiveness, dislikability, intellectual dishonesty, immorality, stupidity, hypocrisy, ignorance, etc.

    Anyway, we can start with the list. I know I’m missing some, but there’s Lot, Sean, Sean McBride, A123, our own dear Fran Taubman, mcohen…

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  267. @dirtyharriet

    Without Saudi funding, 9/11 could not have occurred.

    Since the US prints the money, why would Saudi funding be necessary for the US government to engender and execute the events of September 11, 2001? Israelis, Saudis, Palestinians, men from Mars? Let’s give a little credit t0 domestic, all-American know-how for a change.

  268. Alden says:
    @Harold Smith

    Clear to you. Not clear to anyone else.

  269. @z

    This begs the question?

    The ‘source’ of the EMP?

    • Replies: @z
  270. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    A giant picture of a smug and prosperous looking Silverstein over an article about a 9/11 conspiracy (ie putative mass murder by Silverstein)was immeasurably greater provocation than anything I could do in comments that are baldly skeptical on the thesis of the article. But perhaps that is giving Truthers too much credit as they obviously lack the testosterone of Squeaky Fromme, so nothing at all could make them act on their principles.

    A patsy gets the blame for something he has not done. If the Truthers truly believe what they say, then they must hold that not enacting a summary extrajudicial justice on the individuals they accuse is entirely attributable to personal cowardice: individual Truthers’ cowardice.
    Just admit that you Sapere aude ( “Dare to Know” ) but dare not act. You, Mr Truther, are an authentic coward, that is the real you, which you see in the mirror.

    Or, just admit that all this nonsense is a game where instead of slaughtering zombies you are metaphorically slaying imaginary agents of Mossad online, while safe in your favourite armchair. Nothing to be ashamed of, I am a quite a timid person myself.

  271. @tac

    I want to thank you for posting these videos. They have been eye-opening.

    It has been many, many years since I paid attention to any of the 9/11 investigation websites.

    Just after 9/11, I like many, suspected the demo theory. But back then, most of the information was on “conspiracy theory” or alternative websites, and I knew that Americans wouldn’t read it/watch it/believe it.

    I kind of gave up, so I stopped looking into it.

    Watching these videos today and yesterday, it gives me hope, and I will pass them on to others, as you have done.

    Credible people, professionals in these areas of expertise, and so many of them, giving the scientific facts as to why the WTC was a controlled demolition- that video is a home run. I only wish I had seen it when it first came out four years ago.

    But I fear that the closer we Americans get to the truth, the worse it will get in America. It’s already started. And I know that many of you on here know what I mean.

    I honestly believe the fact that foreign nations are getting away with doing these things and with the help of insiders, IS the blackmail. I believe also that the Vegas shooting was one such stunt, used to bring government officials to heel. Trump met with Adelson hours afterward, and within days to weeks, announced the intention to move the US embassy to Jerusalem. Anyway, I digress.

    I’ve known what government is capable of after learning of the USS Liberty via the History Channel’s special about it in 2002. I can handle the truth. But many probably can’t or won’t.

    Thanks again and keep getting the truth out there. God bless.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  272. Hans says:

    9/11 Hate Speech:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  273. @Sean

    Aren’t you gay ? Gay Zionists are a riot. If you got close to Epstein you’d probably try to hump him while fantasizing those burning towers.

  274. Man and his confused symbols……..

    9/11 and pride of man

    Quicksilver Messenger Sevice:

  275. @Sean

    Regrettably, am now breaking my call to BDS the flyweight Hasbarist troll, Sean.

    Dear but queer Sean,

    (Zigh)

    As treasonous US Jews for example, Larry Silverstein and Arnon Milchan, knew precisely how, and with the tacit permission from the facilitator Zionized W. Bush administration, including the DOJ, Israel did 9/11. 😟

    Fyi, Alan Sabrosky patriotically proclaimed such diabolical reality as noted above, & given possible general public knowledge, he sternly warned that Jews will be “scrubbed” from the face of America the Beautiful when sleeping Amerikans inevitably find out.🤔

    Meanwhile, the U.R. Supreme Hasbarist Airhead, Sean, chides pissed off, principled, & civilized Americans for not doing the Squeaky Fromne thing & bump off Larry Silverstein.

    Hm. Maybe a joint CIA/Mossad hit team upon Lucky Larry might happen because these agencies know that criminals like Silverstein & Arnon Milchan know everything about Israel’s primary role in doing 9/11,

    (Zigh) Might come a day when the arrest, death, or magical disappearance of Larry Silverstein has tangible value in keeping “Homelanders” suspended in the thick 9/11 Zion darkness.

    No doubt Sean is too shallow to figure out there are millions of American “Truthers” who are not partakers in the uncivilized & whacky Squeaky Fromme mode-of-action.

    Such men & women would prefer Lucky Larry Silverstein to undergo a genuine US law enforcement/nterrogation, i.e, to include Shabbos goy John Yoo, Esquire’s endorsed application of phased waterboarding, and subsequent indictment of his being complicit in the 9/11 WTC tower terror attack’s huge serial murder and instant satanic launch of GWOT. 😈

    Dear Sean,
    In closing, please pardon me for breaking my call to BDS you, and having descended into your dark asshole realm? (💤Zigh) Trinity God willing & the Susquehanna Creek don’t rise, haha, it won’t happen again, 😏

    Selah, The Beatles sang Manson Family came in through the Tate/LaBianca “bathroom window,” and selah, the more adept criminal W. Bush bandits slaughtered Baghdad from the air.

    • Replies: @Sean
  276. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hans

    The effect of that cartoon depends entirely on a straw man: the steel melting theory which no serious person contends for. (Think weakening….)

    • Replies: @Hans
  277. @dirtyharriet

    The video of the collapse of building 7 was an eye-opener for me . On September 11 , 2001 I was in England visiting family and friends and I was due to fly home to the US the following day , as the production was unfolding on TV I was on the road driving towards London . I arrived at my friend’s house at about 4pm ,their son greeted my wife and me with the words “America is under attack ” , I walked into the living room and saw on CNN a plane striking , so I thought , one of the Twin Towers . As Richard Nixon is reported to have said ” Americans don’t believe it , unless they see it on TV.” Although it looked like a made in Hollywood movie , I believed that planes had hit the Twin Towers , it was only about 10 years later when a friend told me about the demolition of building 7 that I came to realise I was the victim of a false flag psyop . At first I suffered from cognitive dissonance and had trouble understanding that in fact no planes had hit the Twin Towers and that they ,like building 7 ,had been demolished by pre-planted explosives and that what I had seen on 9/11 was filmed in advance using CGI’s and that crisis actors like the “Harley Guy” were used to convince us that planes had hit the buildings resulting” in intense fires which led to their collapse “. It was only after reading “September Clues ” that I understood the role of the mainstream media in the psyop .
    It is extremely difficult ,if impossible ,to convince family and friends that we have been lied to about
    the events of 9/11 and that there were no Muslim hijackers . The video of the collapse of building 7 is a
    good starting point as a recent study has shown that most Americans who see it doubt the official story .

  278. @tac

    Thanks tac. I was on sabbatical for a few months after a particularly long project at work. I needed to recharge my batteries and take a break from the daily onslaught of gloomy news.

    Yes, I did follow the results of the study by the UAF – it corroborated what many of us have been asserting over the years that the NIST’s (secret) model was bogus and obviously a fraud. The most damning finding was that the only way that the UAF was able to simulate the collapse of WTC7 as claimed by NIST, was by simultaneously removing 650+ columns within 1 second to effect a global collapse. There is no physical way that is possible without rigging it for demolition. No shit, Dr. Science! Office fires, my eye!

    I also watched the press release on 9/11 that someone posted here. I didn’t know that a firefighter was killed in an explosion before a plane hit the tower! That is damning evidence of pre-design.

    If the grand jury is formed as demanded by the Lawyers Committee for 9/11 Inquiry, that will be cosmic in proportion! I don’t think a new inquiry is required – a massive amount of evidence already exists to prove fraud. All they have to do is prove that the government lied and thus 9/11 was an inside job. Israel’s complicity will follow. We don’t need to focus on the “who” – just that the official narrative is a deliberate lie. Once that is proven in court, the rest will follow.

    Debunking the 9/11 narrative will change the world and finally free our nation.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @tac
  279. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @tac

    Are you still foaming at the mouth? Calm down and consider

    Watch “UAF WTC 7 Evaluation Simulation Plausibility Check (Leroy Hulsey, AE911Truth)” on YouTube

    Now that Dr Leroy Hulsey from the University of Alaska Fairbanks has released his simulation work from the past four years and people are flooding my comment sections sharing it, I have decided to make a short video showing why it is inferior to the NIST simulations.

    [MORE]

    By visualizing the dynamic motion of the structure from the color change of the pixels it is possible to see even very small (subpixel) deformations. You’ll notice that the building in the UAF simulations is not moving at all even when the “penthouse” is crashing down. No motion means that there is no dynamic response (no propagation) of the initial impulse observable within the structure. This would be highly unlikely in reality but confirms the observation that parts of the structure are allowed to intersect each other without
    are allowed to intersect each other without collisions. It can be concluded that resistance is completely ignored within the UAF simulations, which makes them questionable and inferior to the NIST simulations.

    But how does it work? In reality and in FEA simulations forces will lead to displacements. Pixel colors allow to detect even very small displacements because of aliasing. This doesn’t mean that this visual data is comparable to FEA data, it’s obviously not, but it’s more than enough to detect if there is any displacement. The point of this video is not to derive accurate data from pixels but to detect if there is any data at all. Zero pixel changes mean zero forces, or basically an invalid simulation.

    Mick West made a longer video dissecting the sims in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OCli&#8230;
    Original UAF videos: http://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7

    *** *** ***

    Not so hard to find really. You shouldn’t have been so flustered and embarrassed about not being able to answer any of the questions.

    *** *** ***

    And you really should stop going on like an idiot about “the Jew sayanim WoZ” [sorry I can’t bring myself to copy your mad CAPS: it’s really hard to get into your excited frame of mind]. Now you have doubled down. “that… peer review… WoZ *always* demands”.

    Are you really so stupid, or dishonest? After your immense obsessive labour amongst thousands of Comments you came up with one possible such “demand” and gave two examples which just showed that you were too dim to be allowed to play with educated grown ups.

    • Replies: @tac
  280. Sean says:

    I don’t understand why you think those who have a picture of Truthers as the most harmless type of online gamers, might be gay. If anything, its the less masculine men who think Truthers might put their allegiance to their principles above their own safety to stand by logic of their comments irrespective of the consequences.

    [MORE]

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/23/conspiracy-theories-internet-survivors-truth

    Marcel Fontaine, 25, describes themselves on Twitter as a “non-binary gay queer autistic commie that loves horror movies and metal!” They were diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum as a child and for years has struggled with anxiety and a debilitating stammer. At moments of heightened stress, they flap their hands like a bird. […] By the time they roused themselves, the deadliest high school shooting in US history was already over. A 19-year-old with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle had entered the Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school in Parkland, Florida, and opened fire. Seventeen had been killed.

    From there, Alex Jones’s conspiracy theory site, Infowars, leapt into the fray. Its “reporter” lifted Fontaine’s photo directly from 4chan and, without any attempt at verification, ran with it on the front page. “Shooter is a commie. Alleged photo of the suspect shows communist garb,” the outlet screamed. The false rumor quickly spread from Miami to Beijing.

    Fontaine was horrified. “I knew a lot about the Alex Jones fanbase – that they were radical extremists who believe every word he says, and that a lot of them hold firearms. I knew my life was at risk.”

    That is the kind of person who takes you and your virtual reality army of false flaggots on your own bombastic lost-in a-dreamworld evaluation. One Squeaky Fromme face to face is more frightening than an internut full of keyboard commandos. But then she proved with deeds, rather than talk, that there was someone really there. It is only onna net you can be taken seriously, even by yourself. Get away from the screen; go look in the mirror and just try to stay that way for ten minutes with the authentic you. You couldn’t do it, you’d come apart.

  281. Hans says:
    @Anonymous

    Nah, Anon, as this picture clearly shows, dat jet fuel melted them beams. Sawed em straight across, too. Pity ((Sen. Arlen Specter))) isn’t still lying around to explain the physics of the Magic Jet Fuel.

    Here’s some more metal “weakening” in a stream –

    Here’s radio host Charles Goyette melting Davin Coburn of (((Popular Mechanics))). One of the great questioner vs. liar interviews –

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
    , @Wizard of Oz
  282. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    You use you own name and if I remember rightly have been doing so since before you were fired from a job commensurate with your education, which was a substantial one. I give that an awful lot of credit, for doing so when you are a family man (though grown and flown by now I assume) you get the Polish Order Of Charging Tanks on Horseback With A Sword. Please get your comments off my nether regions though.

    Showing a sense of proportion, Squeaky did not shoot at the the President for his murdering of flowers (she may have once done someone in but it’s uncertain), anyway she didn’t fire or even chamber a round, and had her day in court to make her publically reported statement denouncing people who refused to halt environmental damage. She did comparable time to Tommy Silverstein.

    Let’s take the Truther case seriously for a moment as a thought experiment. Someone who killed thousands and remains free to do it again and serve as a example of impunity for future recruitment to the conspiracy, has more, much more, coming than a threatening confrontation. It would be beholden on anyone with a proper sense of proportion, who believes the aforementioned (we are in a thought experiment remember) to deliver extra judicial justice to save more innocent lives. Okay, hypothetical ends.

    I see zero evidence of any Truthers believing what they say. While they do in a sense believe when they are online rather in the same way one believes–or suspends disbelief–at a wresting show all the better to enjoy it, their off line behavior belies all the vehement protestations and exposes them as in actuality not at all firmly held. The word calumny describes knowingly making false accusations of real world crime, but perhaps Truthers are more like people shouting abuse at Hulk Hogan.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Anon
  283. bjondo says:

    Anybody with info/educ opinion on Jules and Gedeon (Gideon) Naudet?

    New to me.

    Apparently filmed on 9-11 (?) one or both planes

    Then pretty much gone.

    Mossad?

  284. @Sean

    /A patsy gets the blame for something he has not done./

    Right. “Manchurian candidate” would be more accurate. Thanks for the correction.

    It might be more reasonable to join others here in dismissing you as a rank amateur since most appear more annoyed than offended by your absurd false dilemma and concomitant chicken clucking. Further evidence of your intellectual inconsistency is that you blame Palestinians for acting on their convictions while expecting Silverstein accusers to do the very same. It’s glaring duplicity of which you yourself probably aren’t even aware. So much for your cleverness …

    Also, you earlier said that you weren’t expecting action as drastic as assassination, then when someone debunked your claim that Silverstein never faced any kind of protest, as per usual, you wriggled and squirmed like a hooked fish to dismiss it as insufficient. In your wiser moments, you tend to ignore your blunders, such as when you advanced the stock zionist lie that “Jordan is Palestine” then fell silent when proven wrong.

    And you still haven’t explained your comment about what Ron is sure to face if “half of his claims prove true.” This is odd, since you yourself have repeatedly downplayed the strength and influence of Israel, so why would Ron be threatened by publishing truths concerning Israel’s corruption if you think Israel to be so weak?

    Truth is, you are a mess. Perhaps you should begin applying upon yourself some of that pop psychology you’re so fond of.

    • Replies: @Sean
  285. @Hans

    Excellent expose on Popular Mechanics -U.S. Government collusion in 9/11 cover up.Wny dldn’t Michael Chertoff’s cousin Benjamin show up for the interview ?
    Why was Popular Mechanics allowed to see ‘evidence’ the public is denied ? I guess we’ll just have to take their word for it.

    • Replies: @Hans
  286. @Colin Wright

    Ziolist (preliminary, incomplete draft)

    Lot: claims German-Christian heritage as an evasive tactic; often makes a single snide comment and limits or avoids any further discussion; writes as “conservative” to ingratiate himself to right-of-center posters; ardent defender of all things Israel

    Sean: ostensibly composed, essentially sangfroid; provocateur wannabe; cloaks himself in the rhetoric of realpolitik and tedious skullduggery while advancing zionist worldview; contempt for anti-zionists sometimes subtly expressed, though evident nonetheless

    A123: claims Christian faith as evasive tactic; flagrant troll, fond of reflexively accusing opponents of being Muslim and practicing “taqiyyah”; frequent early posting to anti-zionist threads suggests work with cadre; writes as nationalist to ingratiate himself to like-minded, right-of-center posters; ardent defender of all things Israel

    Feel free to add whatever you’d like. I’m not as well-versed on Fran or mcohen. There’s also restless(some number), Authenticjazzman and that new guy, Andrew Benjamin.

  287. Hans says:
    @Tony Ryals

    Yes, Tony, it’s a great gatekeeper beatdown.

  288. z says:
    @james charles

    Check out Operation Teapot test name ESS. This is a underground atomic test of a “atomic demolition munition“. Here is a video.

    Teapot ESS nuclear detonation

    IMO this helps explain the super-thermite/thermate theories and the Project Gelatin crew. Thermite/thermate was probably used, but not in the way most people are thinking.

    You would need to hide the ascending dust cloud from a nuclear weapon. You could do this by dropping the top portions of the buildings down through the ascending dust cloud.

    This is in regards to WTC1/2, WTC7 differs a bit in it’s mechanism of destruction.

    • Replies: @james charles
  289. @Sean

    Haha. Courteously, the flyweight hasbarist Sean asked me to: “Please get your comments off my nether regions though.”

    Hm. Above, so it’s from the anal-exhaust passage where your low grade thinking origintes? 🤔 Haha. Thanks for pinpointing the location coordinates!

    Figured as much, Sean, & fyi, I remain committed to the task of provoking quality commenters to BDS you.

    Post scriptum: The only reason I responded to Sean is because of my having hit a compassionate point😏where I felt delivering a Patriot missile-insult to him would become at minimum, constructive, or at maximum, provoke an epiphany where even the flyweight Sean could recognize his own goofy absurdity. Haha. My effort didn’t work.

  290. @JessicaR

    I have long suspected that a few people in Israeli intelligence, perhaps the children of Jews from Arab lands who grew up speaking Arabic as a first language, located an al-Qaeda cell and encouraged the attack

    There was no “attack”. Airliners did not cause the uniquely symmetrical, total collapse, at near free fall, of three immense buildings. Not to mention turning much of the north and south towers to dust.

    And there were no airplanes. I imagine you’ve seen the Herzakhani video. All the video is preposterous fakery. The work of those folks with a history of fabricating horrible stories.

    • Replies: @james charles
  291. annamaria says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Have you noticed that the US congress has been heavily zionized for quite a time? As one respectful political analyst has wrapped it up, the US government is Israel-occupied territory. https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/01/18/393684/Congress-is-Israeli-occupied-territory

    Your exclamations (in capital letters) are undoubtedly appreciated by loyalists to the Jewish State. Moreover, your position is not only safe but profitable. What is the strongest lobby working day and night for the benefit of a foreign state (and against the interests of the US citizenry at large) while avoiding FARA? The Jewish Lobby is moneyed and politically powerful, which is attractive for certain kind of people.

  292. @AnonStarter

    Well, I think listing them by name gives them undeserved fame, even though there is value in pointing them out to new readers of UR as commenters to disregard.

    I have some simple litmus tests to filter them out.
    With apologies to rednecks, you are a zio troll if:

    – You aggressively defend the official 9/11 narrative and refuse to consider any alternatives despite the enormous empirical facts and eye-witness testimonies. Anything else is a conspiracy theory.
    – You aggressively defend the hasbara propagated by Israel
    – You think that any criticism of Israel is an attack on jews
    – You aggressively demonize Iran as being an enemy of the US, despite no wars instigated by them in over 200 years. If anything, we have been attacking them since the 1950s
    – You are quick to deflect blame to “the muslims” for things that Israel is the clear beneficiary. Cui bono?
    – There isn’t a war you don’t love, as long as it is against Israel’s enemies, and no Israeli blood is ever spilled.

    Of course there are other more dynamic filters, e.g. ignoring comments from people with non-persistent handles in various numeric qualifiers to “anonymous”.

  293. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    Bearing in mind what happened to Gawker, a court case might be a good way to neutralise Unz, so maybe I should be more careful to at all times make clear that I am certain Larry Silverstein had absolutely nothing to do with the collapse of any building on 9/11, and it was Osama bin Laden, who’s still living deputy recently released a video to gloat about their terrorist attack, and no one else formulated the plan and organized the terror operation against the WTC.

    I was pointing out that in eighteen years nothing untoward has happened as a result of these absurdly preposterous accusations against named individuals. I can assure you a Manchurian Candidate defense will not fly in a court of law, where you are held responsible for all acts except those under an immediate threat of death, so it’s a gun to your head not an internet comment. A Manchurian Candidates does not exist a concept in forensic notions of responsibility.

    Various people experienced in all phases of endeavour from retail to career criminal have have told me that as soon as someone starts causing problems for you or your enterprise you decide whether it’s feasible to stop them. If so, is you must act and stop it right there by instantly going metaphorically nuclear. What you never do is let them go on and gain momentum because it only gets more difficult, if not impossible to stop them.

    As in Michael Crichton’s novel Binary and the film version in his his early seventies directorial debut Pursuit (with the excellent EG Marshall playing a one man army evil genius) it makes a good story when the villain is given enough rope by a plays-by-his-own-rules agent. But in real life it would be folly to toy with someone with brainpower, high level contacts and very substantial financial resources. It is not a case of the target having to having to “prove true” a allegation before action is taken. I don’t see how a Mossad-that-did-9/11 could possibly ignore such a well resourced effort indefinitely. If he is right about half this stuff they have to clip his wings. It would probably be done by a civil lawsuit and the award of immense damages, like Hulk Hogan got against Gawker.

  294. Anon[600] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Heimy’s, I mean Sean’s, rambling thought-streams are becoming more unintelligible and pointless by the day. They must have turned up the heat in that windowless room of stinking sexless Jews that he works in.

    This last post was four paragraphs of pointless drivel, should his thoughts matter regardless for a moment. Which they do not.

    I note that his primary tactic as of late is to try to model what criminals “would do” in certain situations as a means to try to prove his points. I have similar conversations with third grade children.

    Take a break, Heimy. If everyone in that room in which you work walked for 30 minutes per day, you could have the total bodyweight in it down 300 lbs by January. The blood flow to your brain might return your rambling to decipherable pointless-nonsense instead of the psycho scrawl that it is now.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  295. @Cloak And Dagger

    I agree that listing them by name is more recognition than they deserve, but also unfailingly responding to their nonsense is feeding them as well as clogging the threads. Since the post limitations came into effect, I started just putting them on ignore.

    Lots of people here just love to bicker with them. I don’t think it helps.

  296. Anon[203] • Disclaimer says:
    @Adrian

    Sean a pro? To me he seems to be a one trick pony. He keeps hammering home the same point: unless a point of view is backed by a gun it is not to be taken seriously.

    It’s the standard Jew perspective.

    But since only recently in the post American cultural revolution and post WWII periods, after organized Jewry:

    summited the Halls of Power in the West,

    started to pretend to integrate (and spread into civic and government life) like the last two thousand years didn’t happen, and

    then both hampered their enemies and amplified their ability to run their mafia operation with impunity using the laws of their host-lands.

    Prior, revolution against and in spite of the law was the order of the day. Again, because it was in the Jewish interest to approach Western Civilization in this manner.

    One observes the Jewish attempt to reinforce the perspective, which you cite, when it is often repeated by doomed figures like Bill Kristol and his treasonous associates when they cite “Rule of Law” for things like the Russia Hoax. A story that their ethnically owned media crafted a false legal narrative around (false=ignoring situation-changing facts, ignoring evidence quality, applying double legal standards depending on their target, denying partisan bias in the law’s application and media coverage, willfully conflating narrative for fact, repeating narrative until they one day baselessly declare it to be fact, etc).

    Today, the Jewish declaration that only government narrative has validity (well, at least until they meet a government that doesn’t like Jews) comes from a place of methodically having set the system up to benefit themselves, while at the same time being frustrated that setting the system up to benefit themselves doesn’t include a guarantee that the masses will not see ignored or otherwise spun truths that conflict with the Jewish-beneficial narrative.

    It has to be incredibly frustrating to do all of that subversive work. Only to realize that its effect is mostly on paper. And that having to continuously ram their narratives down the throats of an increasingly disbelieving public, which clearly sees denied yet undeniable facts, is a process that will inevitably lead to their corrupt system eventually stinking like a corpse and its eventual end by some unforseen means that they are likely rightly terrified to eventually discover.

    TL;DR: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    Is the new Jewish destiny that they are increasingly worried about falling on the wrong side of.

    This is a group who worked themselves up so thoroughly over their world-domination plan from antiquity that they are still completely committed to it with the second place prize being their actual total destruction. Only from that perspective can they risk the Holocaust lie and its discovery.

    That’s what they have on the line. Their plans as written in the Torah are insane, the world has long suffered for them at the cost of hundred of millions of lives, and as a result its no wonder they have bred a race of severe neurotics. They are playing a real life game of Russian Roulette with their entire group.

    No one who pays attention can think that the Jewish group is innocent nor not pathologically abnormal. They are obviously extremely guilty, and one does not have to dig very deep to come to that certainty. They even wrote their plans down for us in their texts.

    In summary, all of this is why Jews need to insist on official narratives in spite of glaring evidence to the contrary. Western society reached peak Jew-tolerance some time back, is on a definite decline off of that peak, and will not be returning to previous levels. What they are working with is literally all that they will have going forward. Tomorrow, it will be a little bit less in spite of anything else occurring.

    • Agree: tac
  297. @Cloak And Dagger

    I don’t have any problem with what you wrote, though you should know that Colin and I discussed drafting such a list some time ago.

    I also don’t think that any attention you give them by naming them on a list will do much more to inflate their ego than it already is. The purpose of the list is for others, not the listed, and how the listed respond is not our concern.

  298. @Sean

    Sean,

    A court case? They may want things not to come out in any such court case, as they may have plenty to hide.

    There are far too many 911 truthers out there for an extermination campaign against any one, few, or all of them to be effective or useful for those who may wish to conduct it.

    • Replies: @Sean
  299. Incitatus says:

    Great article, thanks Whitey Webb.

    Many questions on 9/11 should be answered. Not least:

    “it is essential to note that Israeli intelligence did attempt to warn the U.S. government at least twice beginning in August 2001 as did the intelligence agencies of many other countries, including France, the UK, Egypt, Russia and Jordan.”

    Add that to many (a dozen plus) “hair on fire” CIA and FBI warnings to the GW Bush Administration (from Jan 2001), last in the 6 Aug 2001 “Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States” PDB.

    GWB declined to protect America. He spent the month (Aug 2001) on vacation in Crawford TX.

    Reality caught up with him reading ‘My Pet Goat’ in Florida on 9/11.

    Incompetence isn’t pretty. Nor is it necessarily a conspiracy, or a plot.

    Sometimes people screw up. Is stupidity a conspiracy? Suppose it depends on one’s point of view.

    Still, the trial for criminal negligence is long overdue.

    To say nothing of conspiracy against peace, aggressive war 2002-03.

    Dancing Israelis? Who cares?

    • Replies: @Hans
  300. Hans says:
    @Incitatus

    LOL, Incy.

    Trans. Sec Norman Mineta Testimony –

    “Does the order still stand? (because that plane is almost in D.C., Mr Cheney)!!!

    Air defense has always been done by comitte during a crisis.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
    , @Tony Ryals
  301. @Anon

    Sean agrees.

    If that doesn’t tell you something about what he wants, I can’t help you.

  302. @Sean

    /Various people experienced in all phases of endeavour from retail to career criminal have have told me/

    Whatever, Sean.

    This is where I wish I could choose a “YAWN” rating option.

    “Go nuclear,” dude. Knock yourself out.

  303. Incitatus says:
    @Hans

    Thanks Hans. LOL indeed.

    Mineta seems unable to add much to the record in the clip you post. Did I miss something (very possible)?

    Tell me what I missed.

    Agree more investigation needs be done on 9/11, but incompetence, already known, is sadly long overdue for indictment.

    To say nothing of the Iraq War 2003 (crimes against peace, launching aggressive war).

    What’s known is quite simple. The GWB Administration lied and screwed up before 9/11. Then went full flower in launching criminal war 2003.

    Google Condi Rice’s 9/11 Commission testimony 8 April 2004. Pure fig-leaf fiction.

    9/11 Inside job? Don’t think so, but make up your own mind.

    • Replies: @tac
    , @Sparkon
  304. Randy says:

    “However, that conclusion was directly contradicted by U.S. officials a year later and by the fact that Israel’s own government subsequently acknowledged that the five Israelis had indeed been involved in “clandestine intelligence activities in the United States.”

    American officials lying to the American public ought to be a felony just like it is for citizens to lie to the FBI.

  305. tac says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    C&D:

    It was I who posted the NY Fire commissioner video because it is relevant that more people in the public space are finally taking a stand against the official narrative. It was not a fire fighter that died before any plane struck the WTCs. It was Bob McIlvaine’s son that died from a blast, mostly to his face, before either of the plane hit (he was in the North Tower the first to be bit by a plane). Look up Bob McIlvaine’s speeches (he’s always made them around the 9/11 anniversaries).

    The NY commissioner was speaking of his fire fighter friend who made it up to the 78th floor (just below the plane impact zone) of the South Tower and stated the there were only two isolated pockets of fire and they would be put out with two lines. About one minute after that last transmission the South Tower came crashing down and he and his fire crew were murdered in the sadistic pre-conceived demolition.

  306. tac says:
    @Anonymous

    Haha …. are you twisting in your panties just because people display normal frustration to the tyrannical ZOG? I did not answer your previous questions as they were plain attempts at character assassination at the researchers’ motives for the study. Funny you should mention this Mick West (the self-proclaimed UFO ‘debunker’). This Mick West follows a similar character assassination profile you display here. Here he is with Ryan Dawson (another gatekeeper who believes simple office fires brought down WTC7) ‘debunking’ nothing whatsoever, but engaging in character assassination against the UAF researchers and ae911Truth movement–just like you do …. hmm, wonder why that could be. No respectable scientist would by bothered to address the UAF study they both claimed. In reality, Dawson got so hammered in the comments section by his own subscribers–a good number of whom unsubscribed to his channel as final proof of his being a gatekeeper, that he disabled the comments section of that video altogether. Both Dawson and this Mick West character took a beating along with many many down votes before he disabled both. See this flimsy attempt for yourself:

    Now, if you can bring yourself to bring forth a substantive rebuttal against the UAF presentation I may consider a response, and, no pixelation is not an argument by any stretch of the imagination.

    If you think that I am lying about Dawson and Mick West being hammered by his own subscribers for ‘debunking’ the UAF–just as your poor attempts here parallel–just simply look over the comments section (and replies to Dawson) from the next video he released after the so-called ‘debunking’ one with your ‘professional debunker’ Mick West:

    Haha, keep twisting in your panties cause there is much to worry ….

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
  307. tac says:
    @Incitatus

    Very telling you’d try, in your (((weaselly))) blame-shifts, point the finger at the shabbos goy, while–ALWAYS to perfection–hiding, deflecting, or otherwise reducing the leading role of the Israel Jews and their strategically placed dual-citizen spies in key US government positions. Do you think we are all stupid and not pay attention to your subterfuge?

    [MORE]

    Was Bibi some sort of soothsayer when in 1995 he predicted the collapse of the WTC’s by Muslims?:

    Or one of the best quick 5 minute clips encompassing 9/11:

    But an oil-grab evidently wasn’t the main reason behind the American invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq, at least not in any real, fundamentally causal way. The oil connection to the Iraq War – corporate profiteering, [5] [6] high level conflicts of interest (a la Cheney and Halliburton[7], George Shultz and the Bechtel Group [7b] ) and so on – appears to be almost entirely incidental, attributable to opportunism, and unrelated to the motivations of its architects. The evidence suggests that the Bush administration neoconservatives who planned the Iraq War, sold it to the world and ultimately oversaw it, did so to benefit a foreign power.

    The real driving force behind the U.S. government’s insane hunger for war is Israel: the zionist regime itself, zionist agents inside the U.S. political system who represent Israel’s interests and work to further them via lobbying, funding and other means, [8] and those who work to realise the objectives of Israel from within the highest levels of the U.S. government and beyond, even to the extreme detriment of the U.S. itself, as American leaders and policy-makers, and as representatives of the American people. The so-called neo-conservatives are the most powerful and obvious example of the latter, and their rise to power was, in many ways, the final phase of the Israeli coup d’etat. [18] [19]

    https://crimesofzion.blogspot.com/p/war-for-israel.html

    More details here:
    http://www.lostscribemedia.com/news/911-israels-masterpiece/

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article179295.html

    http://www.texemarrs.com/082012/sayanim_everywhere.htm

    Kevin Barrett interviews Laurent Guyenot:

    9/11 – Before, During and After (sensitive footage):

  308. Anon[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @nsa

    I thought that a ten storey gash in the side of the building led to the collapse.

  309. @Just another serf

    There may have been ‘no aeroplanes’.

    However,

    “ . . . my current theory is that
    25:34 there probably was something solid that
    25:37 was seen in the sky I don’t think it was
    25:41 a plan so the most likely explanation in
    25:43 my opinion is that there was some
    25:45 solidness to it but I suspect it was a
    25:47 missile . . . “

  310. Sparkon says:
    @Incitatus

    What you missed is that no plane was shot down at the Pentagon on 9/11, even though Mineta’s testimony makes it clear that a plane was being tracked as it approached the Pentagon.

    See the problem?

  311. Sean says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Henry Ford was left alone by the ADL until the leadership changed and they went after him. No I don’t think they would be worried about a court case, so they might sue on something pertaining to them. Or, they would find a person and a case any jury would be sympathetic to, and fund that someone to sue the target on their completely unrelated matter. Hulk Hogan’s suit against Gawker was apparently backed by Peter Thiel. And Gawker setting about Theil might well have had more than a little to do with his conservative associations and a feeling that someone so successful could not endorse Trump and get away with it.

    There are far too many 911 truthers out there for an extermination campaign against any one, few, or all of them to be effective or useful for those who may wish to conduct it

    Truthers with the resources to be effective at converting the uncommitted are thin on the ground. A huge professional looking website gains the trust of the reader. Eradication is not necessary, you would just pick the most prestigious and currently effective Truther and ruin him. The objective would be to stop the multiplication of similarly credible Truther sources by making them look like an unlimited liability risk. Most Truther outlets can be left as they convince no one, but one exceeding mainstream conservative websites and announcing the fact might well get the wheels turning. When you take someone’s money, you take all their money so they have nothing to fight back with. Then you leave them as an example.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  312. @bjondo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_and_G%C3%A9d%C3%A9on_Naudet

    They have supposedly made some other documentaries, although these seem somewhat suspicious to me.

    Works include;

    In 2004 a film project, ‘Seamus’, a “coming-of-age” story, with screenplay by the brothers and their 9/11 partner, James Hanlon.

    The brothers’ next film project was entitled ‘In God’s Name’, exploring current events through the thoughts of 12 spiritual leaders. These so-called leaders include some obvious spooks as:
    Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, head of the Anglican Communion
    Pope Benedict XVI, head of the Roman Catholic Church
    Yona Metzger, Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Israel
    Ayatollah Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah, prominent Shi’ite Muslim leader
    The Dalai Lama, head of Lama (Tibetan) Buddhism
    Frank Page, then President of the Southern Baptist Convention
    Muhammad Sayyid Tantawy, Imam of Al-Azhar Mosque and president of Al-Azhar University and a prominent Sunni Muslim leader.

    Then, featuring interviews with all 20 living White House chiefs of staff and two presidents, Jimmy Carter and George H. W. Bush, the latest documentary The Presidents’ Gatekeepers was broadcast on September 11, 2013 on Discovery Channel.

    In June 2018, they released ‘November 13 Attack on Paris’ on Netflix, a documentary with interviews about the November 2015 terrorist attacks in Paris.

    And if all the above doesn’t suggest Deep State connections, les frere Naudet produced and directed ‘The Spymasters: CIA In the Crosshairs’, which includes interviews with all twelve living (current and former) Directors of Central Intelligence. It first aired on Showtime in the United States on November 28, 2015.

    The brothers are said to both be married (Wikipedia)
    Jules Naudet is married to Jacqueline Longa, with two children. Gédéon Naudet is married to Aude Coquatrix, with two children.

    Coquatrix is definitely reminiscent of ‘Cockatrice’, a fabulous medieval mythical beast, essentially a two-legged dragon or serpent-like creature with a rooster’s head. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockatrice.

    Longa either means a musical note twice as long in duration as a breve, appearing primarily in early music, or a Turkish / Eastern European dance, that was later introduced into Arabic music and is often performed at the end of a muwashshah.

    So what do we make of all this?

  313. For further confirmation that 9/11 was indeed an “inside job” , look into the numerology/gematria used by the planners :

    “The occult numerology of 9/11 – updated ” By Anarchforteanist

    “The most dangerous book in the World – 9/11 as mass ritual ” By S.K.Bain

    9/11 = Evil magic(k) Aleister Crowley

  314. Oracle says:

    Foreknowledge is impossible to avoid when there is active participation.

  315. @bjondo

    It appears that the Naudet film of flight 11 hitting the North Tower was faked and filmed in advance , see :

    SeptemberClues.info

    “Jules Naudet’s 9/11 film was staged ” by Leslie Raphael

    • Replies: @Sean
  316. @tac

    It was I who posted the NY Fire commissioner video

    I thought it might have been you, but I was too lazy to scroll upthread. I had not heard those two stories before and missed the part where Bob’s son was not a firefighter. Regardless, the fact that he died in an explosion before the plane hit is pretty damning.

    • Replies: @Hans
  317. @tac

    Hmm. That’s a disappointment about Ryan Dawson – I thought he was one of the good guys.

    • Replies: @tac
  318. Hans says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    C&D, there is dramatic testimony from people who were in the basement and ground floors when explosions went off prior to the explosions above. William Rodriguez worked in the building and describes the explosions and a victim whose skin was peeling off in sheets.

    William Rodriguez’s testimony is essential –

    Firefighters describe explosions in the lobby –

    9/11 Twin Towers Basement Explosion Before Plane Impact –

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
  319. Tony Ryals says: • Website
    @Hans

    To Hans and Incitatus,

    While it might be commendable that Norm Mineta spoke up about Cheney and his orders and whereabouts on 9/11 something strange about him still persists.By that I mean his employment wih ICTS Europe which is really Menachem Atzmon,et.al’s Dutch -Israeli ICTS International,a job he took, I believe,just after ICTS allowed the Nigerian ‘crotch bomber’ Muatalab to board flight 253 on Christmas 2009 from Amsterdam to Detroit which set up all the more draconian searches of Americans at U.S. airports and sells of more Israeli airport security eqipment by U.S.. It also was an excuse to unleash U.S. drones on Yemen by Obama based on the accusation that Mutalab’s mother was from there and that he had terrorist contacts there. Paradoxical that Mineta aided all that by using his prestige in giving credibility to ICTS Europe or ICTS Inernational or more fiuttingly ICTS Israel.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/former-israeli-intelligence-operatives-run-security-at-brussels-airport/5516262

    ICTS also somehow missed several of the alleged 9/11 hijackers who allegedly flew out of Boston’s Logan airport on September 11th 2001. ICTS also handled security for London’s bus network during the July 7, 2005, ‘suicide’ bomb attacks. In fact, two of its subsidiaries, ICTS UK and ICTS Europe Systems, are based at Tavistock House, Tavistock Square in London, scene of the London Stagecoach bus bombing that day.

    Norman Y. Mineta – Biography – MarketScreener

    https://www.marketscreener.com › business-leaders › biography
    Presently, Norman Y. Mineta holds the position of Secretary & Director at MELE Associates, Inc. and Secretary for ICTS Europe Holdings BV. Mr. Mineta is also …

    Nancy Pelosi, Representative from California’s 12th Congressional …

    52.90.24.56 › person › nancy-pelosi-24723094
    Christine Pelosi. Former Partner at Democracy Partners. Relationship likelihood: Strong. Norman Y. Mineta. Secretary at ICTS Europe Holdings BV. Relationship ..

    Ex Congressman Norman Mineta – political and science rhymes

    politicalandsciencerhymes.blogspot.com › 2014/01 › ex-congressman-nor…
    Jan 1, 2014 – Ex Congressman Norman Mineta – Traitor or Terrorist? … ICTS Europe Holdings B.V. provides security solutions for the transportation and …

    Ex Congressman Norman Mineta – Traitor or Terrorist? – Employed By Rothschild Israeli Terrorists Of ICTS International Who Allowed Flights 11 AND 175 To Hit WTC From Boston Logan Airport!

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
  320. Based on known facts and new information, the Pentagon apparently financed 9/11 with “unaccounted for” defense funds laudered through Saudi Arabia (who also furnished the fake passports), with Israel providing the technical expertise, including wiring the three buildings, and-programming flight controllers aboard all four “hijacked” airliners. In addition, the Pentagon provided the military drill and stand-down, with the Zionist owned MSM disseminating the on-going cover-up story. My guess is that fewer than 25 key individuals were ever aware of the over-all plan, with all other participates doing nothing more than responding to orders and directions coming from their superiors.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  321. @Hans

    C&D, there is dramatic testimony from people who were in the basement and ground floors when explosions went off prior to the explosions above.

    Thanks for these damning videos, Hans. As I have said before, we don’t need another investigation. There is enough testimonies and evidence to destroy the 9/11 narrative if it ever gets aired in a public court.

    That won’t be allowed to happen unless we can bring the bastards down.
    We desperately need another revolution, and our efforts should be towards bringing that about.

    Thanks Hans.

    • Agree: tac
    • Replies: @Incitatus
  322. @Tony Ryals

    Ex Congressman Norman Mineta – Traitor or Terrorist?

    Those who make it to positions of power are the least deserving of it.

  323. Tony Ryals says: • Website
    @tac

    Thanks for writing out Bob McIlvaine’s name .I caught his talk on your video post but not his name and there are not too many examples of people such as his son and perhaps the ex FBI agent who was
    employed by Silverstein with an office in the basement who are mentioned as having died before the planes or whatever hit the fan.

    • Replies: @tac
  324. @Sean

    /Truthers with the resources to be effective at converting the uncommitted are thin on the ground/

    Back in the mid-aughts, 9/11 skeptic Americans hadn’t surpassed 1/3 of the total population. Two years ago, they surpassed critical mass:

    https://www.livescience.com/56479-americans-believe-conspiracy-theories.html

    While the value of “resources to be effective” can’t be denied, the growth of skepticism without the resources of the “mainstream” media is impressive on its face. I don’t think there’s much to be gained by a legal attack but a strategic error that, rather than “set an example,” will simply result in motivating slighted parties to disseminate their message through alternative means with even greater determination.

    In a time when Arabic and Ottoman script were outlawed and many imams and shuyukh imprisoned or executed, Bediuzzaman Said Nursi managed to establish a nation-wide grassroots movement that would eventually alter the political and religious landscape of Turkey in less than thirty years. It bears that influence to this day, even though the attacks and restrictions he faced were far more draconian in degree and scope than anything 9/11 skeptics face.

    Point is, once you pass critical mass, there’s far less need to give the pedal more gas.

    /Eradication is not necessary, you would just pick the most prestigious and currently effective Truther and ruin him. The objective would be to stop the multiplication of similarly credible Truther sources by making them look like an unlimited liability risk./

    This helps to explain Alex Jones’s path.

    Though the fact that he isn’t financially ruined tells us he’s compromised and subsidized. Makes you wonder if his Bohemian Grove exposé wasn’t just a set-up …

  325. DaveE says:
    @MarkinLA

    No, not true. Duff detailed the “Davey Crockett” small battlefield nuke. Khalezov detailed some Russian small nukes. I’ve read about some explosive nukes the size of a Coke can and I’ll try to dig up a link or two.

    Basically, the smaller you make a nuke, the less efficient is the explosion, all other things being equal. But a nuclear bomb is not different than a so-called “dirty bomb”, in theory of operation, although efficiency is everything in bomb design. There are newer, more sophisticated reactions, using different materials and structural design which can produce a reasonably powerful yield and high efficiency in a very small case.

    It’s largely all about how quickly you can compress the fissionable material, which is strictly a design “thing.”

    The two Jews who first calculated the “critical mass” for a nuclear explosion (Ponds and Fleischman, I think were their names) were WAAAY off, although they were working with a very crude design.

    The Devil is in the details, as we say in the engineering world.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  326. @Bardon Kaldian

    “9/11 or 11/9? When someone points gleefully to the typos, it is a sure sign he has nothing to say or argue.”

    Mr. Kaldian,

    This is not a “typo” an American would ever make. If you don’t mind me asking, are you European or Israeli?

  327. @Alden

    Neatly put but some might think it deserves the mark of special approval for pointing to the fact that the conceivable hypothetical planners of the great non-Al-Qaeda conspiracy would have known from such examples how easily things can get uncontrollably out of hand. From that it might be inferred that every effort would have been made to keep the plan to essentials and that highlights WTC 7 as an anomaly.

  328. @Ron Unz

    I don’t go along with Sean’s idea that the truthers don’t believe the accusations against Silverstein because none appear to have tried to knock him off. After all ranters on UR are conspicuously lacking in practical initiatives that one might expect to follow even just to the point of showing willingness to put their money where their mouths are. (Not even a fund so James Field could afford a good lawyer). But….

    As I have said elsewhere, the supposition that Larry Silverstein would deliberately use words that he knew as a native speaker of English would prima facie mean that he was party to a great crime boggles the mind. Anyone relying on Silverstein’s supposed admission should really be asked if they think Silverstein was admitting to WTC 7 having been prepared for demolition with explosives and why he would do that in any circumstances, let alone in circumstances where it could connect him to the greater WTC crimes. You don’t believe it, do you? Isn’t it time for you to put your authoriative hand on the nonsense suppressor?

    The dancing Israelis brings us much closer to sane reasons for suspicion. But, given that, on what we know,
    (a) their alleged high-fiving only requires them to be reasonably intelligent and to make the easy inference that they were observing an outrage that could well be what was needed to turn America as much against Arab terrorists as Israelis were,
    (b) if they were set up in advance to film the event it arouses suspicion that Mossad at least knew more in advance than they passed on to the FBI AND that actual hijacked planes flown by non Israelis crashed into the buildings.

    So, not such a big deal for truthers. But what of the other Israelis allegedly caught transporting explosives. What do you think? It surely doesn’t make sense to suppose they were going to muddy the picture of Al Qaeda hijacking planes by blowing up a bridge, does it? Is it a tenable hypothesis, even one that has been suggested before, that they were getting rid of surplus explosive not needed for demolishing the Twin Towers and dangerous if found at an Urban Moving depot?

  329. Incitatus says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    “As I have said before, we don’t need another investigation…We desperately need another revolution, and our efforts should be towards bringing that about.”

    Indeed!

    “We don’t need no stinking badges!”

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=We+don’t+need+no+stinking+badges!+&view=detail&mid=4673FF26789B8772F4054673FF26789B8772F405&FORM=VIRE

    Lock-and-load C+D! What bravura!

    May the Force be with you!

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
  330. Robjil says:
    @Harold Smith

    The three countries he meant were the US, Britain and Israel.

    Britain – gave a clue that it knew with the BBC video of a reporter saying tower seven is falling. When it did not fall until a half and hour later.

    The US knew since it allowed it to happen

    Israel wanted it most of all. It was Israel’s wish to scare the hell of the US sheep to fight wars for Israel.

    Sadly it worked. The US is Israel’s war Golem for the past 18 years.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Harold Smith
  331. Mikexyz says:

    The uncle of Ziad JARRAH, one of the 19 alleged hijackers, was found to be a MOSSAD agent, who among other things helped scout targets for Mossad assasinations.

  332. @Incitatus

    Dear Israeli shill,

    How very deceptive and dishonest of you to create a fake quote attributed to me by splicing two separate statements and cropping both to create a combined misrepresented statement. That is academic dishonesty at its worst to modify quotes and represent them as original quotes.

    This is what you quoted me, in block quotes no less, as having said:

    “As I have said before, we don’t need another investigation…We desperately need another revolution, and our efforts should be towards bringing that about.”

    And lo and behold, here is what I actually wrote, easily verified by scrolling upthread:

    As I have said before, we don’t need another investigation. There is enough testimonies and evidence to destroy the 9/11 narrative if it ever gets aired in a public court.

    I was right when I wrote in a followup statement:

    That won’t be allowed to happen unless we can bring the bastards down.
    We desperately need another revolution, and our efforts should be towards bringing that about.

    You have just proven that you and others like you and your fellow zionists are the target of that statement, because as one of your countrymen wrote in his book, By way of deception thou shalt do war. The sooner your lot moves to Israel instead of parasitically bleeding us dry, the sooner we get our country back. We do need a revolution, if not a peaceful one, then a violent one must do.

    If you are a dual national American, your previous posts attest to you not being a patriotic American. I can only presume that the other nationality is Israeli.

    Run along now little shill, I am not impressed.

  333. @Wizard of Oz

    http://911review.com/errors/wtc/pullit.html

    A third explanation is less obvious but makes sense of the non-sequiturs in the above explanations: perhaps Silverstein’s statement was calculated to confuse the issue of what actually happened to Building 7. By suggesting that it was demolished by the FDNY as a safety measure, it provides an alternative to the only logical explanation — that it was rigged for demolition before the attack. The absurdity of the FDNY implementing a plan to “pull” Building 7 on the afternoon of 9/11/01 will escape most people, who neither grasp the technical complexity of engineering the controlled demolition of a skyscraper, nor its contradiction with FEMA’s account of the collapse, nor the thorough illegality of such an operation. Thus the idea that officials decided to “pull” Building 7 after the attack serves as a distraction from the inescapable logic that the building’s demolition was planned in advance of the attack, and was therefore part of an inside job to destroy the entire WTC complex.

    /it arouses suspicion that Mossad at least knew more in advance than they passed on to the FBI AND that actual hijacked planes flown by non Israelis crashed into the buildings./

    Why would it necessarily arouse suspicion about non-Israelis crashing planes into the buildings? Non-sequitir.

    Why not focus upon the simple fact that Israelis had those explosives and leave the real legwork to the FBI, okay?

    Oh … That’s right.

    Never mind.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  334. @Cloak And Dagger

    Dear C&D,

    His name — from the root “incite” — should tell you all you need to know.

    Take care.

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    • Replies: @Incitatus
    , @Wizard of Oz
  335. @AnonStarter

    Add AaronB and a newcomer: ‘Lyin’ Zion’ or something.

    Anyway, Sean seems to work with squid ink, mostly. He doesn’t overtly defend Israel so much as obscure the issue, introduce red herrings, trivialize whatever occurred, etc.

    ‘MCohen’ has some sort of pathetically misplaced notion that Jews are morally superior and a beacon to the rest of us; a canard which surely Israel has put to rest, even if it’s accomplished nothing else. Deep down inside he might be a pretty nice guy, actually; he just needs to forget that he’s Jewish.

  336. tac says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    In addition to denying that WTC7 was a controlled demolition, Dawson also claimed there were no strategically placed bombs/incendiaries in WTC1/2 but some mini nukes (sound familiar by some advancing this theory here with scant evidence bearing this out, although some can certainly be confused there are others who push this, more than likely false claim on purpose) placed in the basement meant to collapse the lobby so people could not get out. Pure rubbish. Add to that that Dawson always bashed Christopher Bollyn and Richard Gage of ae911Truth and an image of a gatekeeper emerges, albeit one for a different set of people than the other know gatekeepers. People can get fooled, but the important thing is once they realize the shills that are the modern day Judases selling out for thirty pieces of silver they can never go back.

    When time allows please watch this (you and anyone else who seeks the truth) 9/11 video in commemoration to 9/11 put out by Adam Green (who has Christopher Bollyn on regularly):

    and here is Adam Green’s interview with Christopher Bollyn on this recently passed 9/11 anniversary:

    Usually L.K. and utu come to comment on 9/11,but somehow seem less involved this time around. Wonder why?

  337. tac says:
    @Tony Ryals

    To you and to the other commentators here who have shown gratitude and affiliation for the truth in this dark episode of this Israeli invented plan–a new Pearl Harbor in order to drag the goyim into their wars of aggression–that they are entirely to blame for from its inception, on a false premise, to move into the ME behaving like real terrorist do, I say thank you for an open ear and I trust that the majority of you are intelligent and can therefore decipher the propaganda employed against us in order to fulfill the whore US’ involvement for its Israeli agenda. History is a testament to such machinations! Question being, are we to go in a similar trajectory as the other victims of its insidious agenda?

    Here is more interesting photograghed anomilies from that fateful day, but, this time around, involving WTC6 (before either WTC1 or WTC2 came down):

    WTC6 with these photos (zoomed in) will tell you how WTC6’s entire lower rear section (as seen from street level) blown out BEFORE WTC1 & WTC2 crashed down and one that come from a profesional photographer Jack White:

    Notice the gaping hole in the rear back of WTC6 that the fire department is trying to put out before either WTC tower came down:
    http://jackwhites911studies.org/911photostudies118x.htm

    WTC1 and WTC2 are still upright when a plume of smoke is seen from WTC6 http://jackwhites911studies.org/911photostudies117.htm

    • Replies: @Hans
    , @Sparkon
  338. @Wizard of Oz

    It surely doesn’t make sense to suppose they were going to muddy the picture of Al Qaeda hijacking planes by blowing up a bridge, does it?

    This question is based on false premises. Such an act would not have muddied the false and shaky narrative but necessarily reinforced it. Unseen Al Qaeda terrorists purportedly hijacking four planes simultaneously and then piloting them into buildings – without any hard evidence – was a ludicrous construct to begin with, whereas a bunch of guys wearing robes, and perhaps also appropriate Islamic head covers, being seen by numerous eyewitnesses escaping into taxi cabs from a stranded van at the middle of the Washington bridge during dusk was the still missing ingredient to provide some degree of visible plausibility to the entire operation.

    Blowing up a van requires less skill than piloting a jet. The next day these witnesses at the bridge would be on local TV telling viewers what they saw: “Of course they were Islamic, I saw them making their getaway with my own eyes.

    Next question:

    Is it a tenable hypothesis, even one that has been suggested before, that they were getting rid of surplus explosive not needed for demolishing the Twin Towers and dangerous if found at an Urban Moving depot?

    Absolutely not, irrespective of the point made above. Check out the book The Star and the Sword by Wayne Madsen, at the bottom of page 43, which can be viewed at Google Books, with the following quote:

    According to several Weehawken neighbors of the Urban Moving Systems warehouse, the FBI, upon searching the warehouse, found fertilizer, other chemicals for making explosives, pipes, caps, and traces of anthrax.”

    Remember, they did not presume they were going to be apprehended, so there would be plenty of time left over, after their expected celebrations, for others to clean up the warehouse later.

    According to the book, there were other suspicious gleeful characters at Liberty Park high-five-slapping each other before the second jet hit the towers; they were chased away by police and managed to get away in a car. If you spent weeks transporting and then loading explosives into the three towers wouldn’t you want to get a closer view?

    The easiest way to find information about these amateur dancers on the Internet, including the highly redacted and blanked out FBI files (classified), as well as the aforementioned book, is to simply type in their license number, which they may have used on two vans because their front license was missing when the got caught: JRJ13Y

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  339. Well thank you for that which I take to rely on the Madsen book which I may read in this lifetime if it gets more plausible recommendations than one on UR. (No doubt there has been some reference to it on UR threads but it certainly hasn’t emerged as a truther favourite to the best of my recollection.)

    Taking your two responses to quoted passages seriatim I see your forst point as being strong if, but only if, in fact there were Israeli agents found in, or with, Arab disguise, together with explosives. Even so, absent more definite evidence, it seems absurd to suppose that such risks of exposure would be taken when the main events were designed so that most of the evidence of who was involved would be destroyed by explosion and fire.

    As to your second point, even if the neighbours could be relied on for all those details, which seems unlikely, it by no means makes it unlikely that *actual explosives* – in contrast to possible ingredients, would be removed.

  340. Hans says:
    @tac

    Well said, Tac. Thanks for the WTC6 info.

    People should also get copies (multiple) of Alison Weir’s outstanding book, Against Our Better Judgment: the hidden history of how the U.S. was used to create Israel.

    It is both remarkably succinct and meticulously sourced. A quick read and an absolute must read even for those familiar with “the special relationship” – http://againstourbetterjudgment.com/

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
  341. @AnonStarter

    If you are happy with an explanation which has Silverstein saying something which is an “absurdity” and “contradict[s] FEMA’s account of the collapse” on the ground that most people are too dumb to notice and the rest won’t do anything about it feel free to believe it. I can’t offer any prospect of cure.

    And there’s not much hope for you if you can’t see how the addition of a clearly demolished WTC7 to persuading people to believe in the simple story of Al Qaeda volunteers hijacking four planes and flying them into buildings is going to look a bit ragged around the edges if WTC 7 is separately demolished on the same day.

    OMG! You’re not one of the simpletons who believe that the plane that ended up in Pennsylvania was meant to be eending its way to NYC to strike WTC 7 are you?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  342. annamaria says:

    The 9/11 event, the still ongoing mass slaughter in the Middle East (the Wars for Israel), and the fate of Assange have become inseparable.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/worlds-most-important-political-prisoner

    Under international law, pre-trial detention must be only imposed in limited instances. Detention during investigations must be even more limited, especially in the absence of any charge. The Swedish investigations have been closed for over 18 months now, and the only ground remaining for Mr. Assange’s continued deprivation of liberty is a bail violation in the UK, which is, objectively, a minor offense that cannot post facto justify the more than 6 years confinement that he has been subjected to since he sought asylum in the Embassy of Ecuador. Mr. Assange should be able to exercise his right to freedom of movement in an unhindered manner, in accordance with the human rights conventions the UK has ratified.

    Assange story is a fulcrum for the main developments in the damaged western civilization.

  343. @Carroll Price

    My guess is that fewer than 25 key individuals were ever aware of the over-all plan, with all other participates doing nothing more than responding to orders and directions coming from their superiors.

    I think your scenario captures the planning and the first 80% of what happened that day.

    However, there was real chaos as well (the best war plan never survives first contact with the enemy 🙂 )–there was an article here a while back about how the US was double-crossed by the Israelis–something about the Air Force 1 codes–the PA “plane crash” was _not_ part of the original plan imho–it was unnecessary to achieve “The New Pearl Harbor” objective and the “let’s roll” nonsense had sloppy conception and execution.

    At the end of the day, however, the mass media wrote the “history” so all was well in the world of the kleptocrats.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  344. @Hans

    People should also get copies (multiple) of Alison Weir’s outstanding book, Against Our Better Judgment

    I second that and highly recommend that book as well as her website: https://ifamericansknew.org/

  345. @Robjil

    What I objected to was not the purported involvement of various “intelligence agencies” per se but his implication that such “intelligence agencies” are independent actors; i.e. that they’re somehow independent of the political “establishment” in their respective countries.

  346. @Wizard of Oz

    I appreciate your effort to deride me, which merely betrays the fact that you’re not as objective as you’d like us to perceive. Knee-jerk ad hominems tend to give that away.

    Your “argument,” if we can even call it that, leans heavily on the presupposition that the planners of the attack possessed infallibility, as if the anomalies to which you allude couldn’t possibly have occurred because every aspect of the plan had, of necessity, to be executed flawlessly. If they weren’t infallible, you’d like us to imagine they couldn’t possibly have been so sloppy as to do what some skeptics say they did.

    I recall that about two-thirds of the American public had no problem going after Saddam on the basis of “faulty intelligence”; that we were lied into so doing in order to occupy Iraq became public knowledge only after the deception had met the objective of those who advanced it. “We don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud over NYC.” That was the argument for invading Iraq rather than an evaluation of the intel. It worked. Most Americans believed it.

    Just as most of them believed in the official history of Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, and the 9/11 attacks for years before information undermining it began to reach more people. Now it’s surpassed critical mass:

    https://www.livescience.com/56479-americans-believe-conspiracy-theories.html

    So go on and peddle the fantasy that, because these anomalies occurred, Israel or its American golems couldn’t possibly have been responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Ignore every historical precedent for a false-flag attack that could be exposed as such by examination of primary source material because, according to you, people just aren’t that easily fooled.

    Unlike you, I can offer a prospect of a cure, but, given your disposition, I don’t have much confidence you’ll be interested.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  347. Sparkon says:
    @tac

    Please see my comment here:

    http://www.unz.com/article/more-americans-questioning-official-9-11-story-as-new-evidence-contradicts-official-narrative/#comment-3448336

    Does anyone see any sign of a blast within Bldg. 6? I don’t. Instead, the rather uniform destruction within the structure argues against any kind of explosion and tends to support the idea that the building was holed out by falling debris.

    As for the anomalous, apparently underground explosions and the cloud of dust prior to the destruction of WTC 1 and WTC 2, I suggest these events may be tied to the theft of gold from vaults beneath the WTc and represent the efforts of the gold thieves to blast their way into the vaults where the gold was stored.

    Tony Gambino, who declared in a 2007 radio interview:

    “I know for a fact that Bush [and other] U.S. government leaders had prior knowledge and helped organize 9-11. They did it for many obvious reasons, one being to instigate a war in Iraq. But they also did it to get their hands on all the gold that was hidden below the [WTC].”

    Gambino claims that his grandfather’s construction company built the WTC and installed underground vaults to warehouse vast quantities of gold, where it was later stolen on 9-11.

    http://americanfreepress.net/how-much-gold-was-under-wtc-complex/

    Also, please recall that there were massive fireballs and explosions from both WTC 1 and WTC 2 at the time and place where the allegedly hijacked airliners struck the Twin Towers, and one can see that significant debris was ejected at that time, presumably from explosives detonated within each tower.

    http://jackwhites911studies.org/911photostudies113.htm

    Alas, at this time, I cannot provide a definitive answer to the destruction of WTC 6, but here, and under Whitney Webb’s article (linked above), I have shown that there are a number of possible explanations.

    • Replies: @tac
  348. Incitatus says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    Lighten up! Lederhosen riding-up?

    “How very deceptive and dishonest of you to create a fake quote attributed to me by splicing two separate statements and cropping both to create a combined misrepresented statement.”

    Apologies for abbreviating sacred text. Though (need one say) you repeat anew:

    “We do need a revolution, if not a peaceful one, then a violent one must do.”

    Is sedition and incitement to violence patriotic? Give us a hint.

    “That [destroying the 9/11 narrative in public court] won’t be allowed to happen unless we can bring the bastards down.”

    Which “bastards”? Give us a list. How will you ‘bring them down’? Be specific.

    “You have just proven that you and others like you and your fellow zionists are the target of that statement”

    Vis-à-vis “bring the bastards down…We desperately need another revolution”? Really? Is that a threat?

    “Israeli shill…you and your fellow Zionists…The sooner your lot moves to Israel instead of parasitically bleeding us dry..little shill”

    Kindly produce evidence of my ‘Zionism’ or any support for Israel.

    If your waffles arrive cold at IHOP, is your waitress a “Zionist shill”?

    “If you are a dual national American.”

    Sorry. Plain old American. Family four centuries here next year. One Revolution was enough. To say nothing of King Philip’s War, King William’s War, Queen Anne’s War, Rale’s War, King George’s War, French and Indian War, Pontiac’s War, Civil War, WW1 and WW2.

    “your previous posts attest to you not being a patriotic American”

    Kindly define patriotism, then quote my offending disrespect.

    “as one of your countrymen wrote in his book, ‘By way of deception thou shalt do war’”

    Sorry, not Jewish, not Israeli, not Mossad. Couldn’t care less.

    Let me reciprocate will with a happy Führer sentiment [enjoy]:

    “If the German people are no longer strong enough and ready to sacrifice their own blood for their existence, then they should perish and be wiped out by another, stronger power. They are no longer worthy of the place they have won for themselves.”
    -Adolf Hitler to the Danish Foreign Minister 27 Nov 1941 [Stargardt, The German War p.227]

    Context? Barbarossa stalled, no quick victory in sight, winter setting in, German Landser in summer uniforms [winter gear arrives late January ‘42].

    Solution: declare war on the USA two weeks later (11 Dec 1941).

    Great idea, nicht wahr?

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @AnonStarter
  349. Incitatus says:
    @AnonStarter

    “His name — from the root “incite” — should tell you all you need to know.”

    What a deep thought! What sublime insight!

    Pat yourself on the back!

    Question.

    Is labeling critics “Israeli shill”, “Zionist”, ‘parasite’, ‘dual-national’, ‘unpatriotic’, ‘dishonest’ and the like when frothing “bring the bastards down” and “revolution, if not a peaceful one, then a violent one must do” incitement [from the root “incite”]?

    Don’t worry. Not holding my breath.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  350. @Incitatus

    Haha. For C&D’s benefit,🙄 InZitatus tries to shed his Jewish fores-“kin,’ and airily asked: “If your waffles arrive cold at IHOP, is your waitress a “Zionist shill”?

    Haha. I also see this phoney tried to assign you homework, and wrote: “Kindly define patriotism, then quote my offending disrespect.” Haha. Someone please tell him how he disrespects himself? Haha.

    At any rate, a return to the prick’s stupid question to C&D & which was, “at IHOP, is your waitress a “Zionist shill”? He’s funny, eh, Cloak And Dagger? (Zigh)

    Following, and to properly answer this wannabe Jack Benny, I shall paraphrase a lyric from one of America’s greatest songwriters, the late-Warren Zevon, who sang, “I went home with the waitress, the way I always do…, how was I to know🤔, she was with the Zionists too??!”

    For straight shooters still assembled at this article thread, linked below is Warren’s great “Lawyer’s guns & money,” and haha, guess what, C&D? The shit from InZitatus’s home-fan has hit himself!🤗

  351. Dannyboy says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Any adult human being with a shred of integrity and common sense who lived through 9/11 and did a modicum of research on the incident, understands that the Dirty Fucking Jews at the very least had foreknowledge of it, or most likely facilitated it.

    Pop Quiz: Which ethnicity has been convicted of espionage against the United States of America more than any other?

    LOL

  352. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Chuckles!

    The Scranton neo-Nazi Polish Clean-Up Aisle Five/Bus-Driver! How wonderful to hear from you!

    Do you realize 60,000+ Poles (nobles, intelligentsia, priests, boy scouts, Jews, etc.) were methodically killed 1 Set-39 to 31 Dec 1939? Any second thoughts?

    “Haha. For C&D’s benefit, InZitatus tries to shed his Jewish fores-“kin,’ and airily asked: “If your waffles arrive cold at IHOP, is your waitress a “Zionist shill”?”

    Wow, what vulgar insight, what intellect. You’re really something!

    Jésuits in Scranton must really be proud for nursing an eastern rite Christian.neo-Nazi heretic, given your stupid posts. You do know (of course) Jésuits were prime enemies of Nazi Germany? Have you asked them (oh, so religious Chuckles)? Jésuits were persona non grata in Nazi Germany. Why?

    “For straight shooters still assembled at this article thread, linked below is Warren’s great “Lawyer’s guns & money,” and haha, guess what, C&D? The shit from InZitatus’s home-fan has hit himself!”

    Icing on the cake. You parse the web, find whack-job reinforcement. Easy to do. Desperation?

    Nothing to do with what I asked Cluck+Bugger in #362. Any answers, Chuckles?

    Obviously no.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  353. @Incitatus

    /Is sedition and incitement to violence patriotic? Give us a hint./

    Once upon a time, in 1776 …

    Is that enough of a hint or would you prefer the color-by-numbers version?

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  354. @Incitatus

    /Not holding my breath./

    What a shame.

    One can always dream.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  355. Hans says:

    “Do you realize 60,000+ Poles (nobles, intelligentsia, priests, boy scouts, Jews, etc.) were methodically killed 1 Set-39 to 31 Dec 1939? Any second thoughts?”

    Killing of the intelligentsia and priests is a hallmark of Jews/(((Communists))). See Spain, Hungary, Russia, etc. You may need to turn of the (((History Channel))) first, painful as that may be.

    Had the Poles acceded and given Germany a rail link and corridor to reconnect Konigsberg to the rest of Germany, it’s very likely that Germany would not have invaded Poland. But the Poles would also have needed to ceased the brutalities against Germans trapped in “Poland” by the (((Treaty of Versailles))). Anyhow, the Poles listened to the (((English))) and (((Americans))) and got Jew Communism for ~ 50 years for their poor choice in 1939.

    Try Mike King’s The Bad War if it hasn’t been completely suppressed by the forces of (((Democracy))). Plant a flower, wear a poppy, hand over the heart, yada yada while you’re at it.

    The Bad War – http://tomatobubble.com/worldwarii.html

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  356. @AnonStarter

    Not quite right in saying I depend on the conspirators being infallible for my arguments. I rather pick up on those who see the devilish cunning needed to create such a complex conspiracy instead of a much simpler version such as that a whole lot of suicidal jihadis really did fulfill ObL’s aim of getting the US mired in Afghanistan (as the USSR had been, and the US in Vietnam). That theory leaves plenty of room for Israeli involvement right up to advising how to obtain visas etc. but still leaves it as essentially an Al Qaeda attack which woild suit Israel’s interests. Of course one has to go back to scratch if it is ever proved that the WTC buildings couldn’t have collapsed because of steel weakened-by-heat plus gravity. Clearly not enough people believe in conspiracies for politicians to see mileage in promising to finally get to the truth about 9/11 scientific/engineering claims.

    BTW to deride someone for the poverty of their logic and argument or comprehension of an argument is not the same as relying on ad hominem attacks.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  357. @Been_there_done_that

    See #352. I will find time to follow up on this if I see that it has some kind of fan club. As it is I don’t see as much enthusiasm as there is even for the crazy CGI and no real planes or nukes theories. Perhaps it isn’t crazy enough.

  358. @Incitatus

    Haha.

    On one end of the U.R. spectrum, Holo Wally profiled me as a “communist,”🙄and now The Most Zionized-Reverend, InZitatus, brands me thusly: Jésuits in Scranton must really be proud for nursing an eastern rite Christian.neo-Nazi heretic, given your stupid posts.”🙄

    Well, InZit, through it all, I much prefer the tag which Maven Sam Shama gave me a couple years ago, and that was a “viral bacterial strain.” Haha. A question? You must know I am Jesuit educated & a proud “persona non grata” in Zionized America? 🤗

    Haha. Brother Milton Kapner was yeshiva, and now he is perhaps the tribe’s #1 “persona non grata.” Haha. Tell me how do you say that in Macron’s French, InZit? 💞 The M.I.A. Maven & maybe “iffen” would dig that, eh? Haha.

    Selah, send Shabbos goy lawyers, guns, and money to defend the Land of Bilk & Money,* selah, ‘cuz kosher shit has hit InZit’s General Electric fan!

    * Warren Zevon, Eternal Memory.

  359. @AnonStarter

    You are showing your limitations again. Didn’t it even occur to you to Google for Incitatus and find

    “Incitatus was the favourite horse of Roman emperor Caligula. According to legend, Caligula planned to make him a consul. His name is a Latin adjective meaning “swift” or “at full gallop”?

    It is a jeu d’esprit by one UR commenter who may sometimes be wrong but is clearly a lot smarter than most.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  360. @Cloak And Dagger

    He didn’t create a fake quote by splicing etc. He used points of elision to show that something had been left out.

    Did that still create a totally false impression of what you were advocating? Funny that you haven’t actually sought to argue that!

  361. @Wizard of Oz

    /You are showing your limitations again./

    Oh, how terribly gauche of me.

    Feel free to submit a report providing the full details of my egregious faux pas to the local pedantry council.

    Be sure to include a requisition for the nullification of my previous submissions. Wouldn’t want to leave any loose ends …

  362. Incitatus says:
    @AnonStarter

    “Once upon a time, in 1776 …”

    Forget 1775 Lexington and Concord?

    Not very bright are you?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  363. Sean says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    There are people here talking about how nuclear bombs work, yet they can’t even chuck a custard pie at their putative slaughterer of thousands when he gives keynote addresses to august bodies where anyone can wander in and get to them.
    .
    Say Jeffrey Epstein’s lawyers had got him released after a couple of weeks on the grounds his 2007 deal gave him immunity, would Epstein have been safe from affronts? He could not have even walked down the street, any time he showed his face people would be spitting in it. Is getting handjobs from 14 year olds and paying them so much worse that murdering thousands of people?

    I don’t go along with Sean’s idea that the truthers don’t believe the accusations against …. because none appear to have tried to knock him off.

    They go far beyond asserting their belief, they say it is certain and no one could possibly doubt it who is not turning a blind eye to the evidence, and they accuse several named individuals. Yet, if guilty, those accused would know they were guilty and thus anticiplate revenge attacks on them and their family, and not with custard pies. Maybe not immediately ,but after it was obvious the law was going not going to punish them things would get extra-judicially kinetic. As far as I can see neither Truther authors or their fans, nor those they accuse are behaving as I would expect them to, if the Truthers were even half right and believed they were.

    Ron thought my comment suggesting that, were he objectively right about 9/11, all sorts of unpleasant things were going to befall him, was laughable. But consider, being in the position of having murdered thousands of people, and millions of people knowing that you had done so, would you just sit back and in effect dare them to put their money where their mouth is? Would you and your co conspirators ignore a web magazine read by millions that was hammering away at the idea you were guilty?

    The dancing Israelis brings us much closer to sane reasons for suspicion

    They seem to me young jackass Jews egging each other on to heights of ostentatious foolishness similar to what what The Beastie Boys might have acted like, or those Israeli idiots who filmed themselves sex having group sex with a British girl in Cyprus, put in the video on the web and then were surprised to be arrested and jailed as the subjects of a complaint for rape. Then after they got released and returned to Israel started chanting ‘the Brit is a whore’ in the airport for the media to report. Ah, maybe the Jews just want us to think they are really stupid, and they do stupid things as part of a master plan. Like Ehud Barak getting photographed in a ridiculous disguise entering Jeffrey Epstein’s Manhattan mansion in 2016 , when Epstein was already politically radioactive and staked out by paparazzi.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/barak-says-he-visited-epstein-at-home-but-didnt-attend-sex-parties/
    By TOI STAFF
    16 July 2019
    Epstein has been accused of raping or sexually abusing women and underage girls in New York and on the island. In 2016, Barak was photographed by the Daily Mail entering Epstein’s New York mansion. Speaking to Channel 12’s “Meet the Press” Saturday, Barak defended his decision to enter a business relationship with Epstein years after he went to jail, even after many of the financier’s other powerful friends and backers had severed ties.

    “He’d served his sentence for soliciting prostitution — the indictment didn’t say she was a minor,” he said

    Yes it did. but he–only the former head of Israeli military intelligence– pretended to not know that, obviously.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  364. Haha. Wizard of oZ bonds with InZitatus!

    Haha. By casting a tribe spell, oZ tries to educate Cloak And Dagger (in reverse of course, a horse🥴) by saying, “He didn’t create a fake quote by splicing etc. He used points of elision to show that something had been left out.”

    Haha. Given oZ keeps deploying highbrow words like “elision,”👍 such signals that Illusionist-InZitatus might have finally found a (bareback) horse galloping partner here at U.R.’s comment division, as once was the Pale of Settlement Jew Rider, Maven Sam Shama. 🤗

  365. @Wizard of Oz

    /a much simpler version/

    Well, I’m not sure what your cumulative portrait entails, but notice that you wave away the “art student” phenomena and Urban Moving Systems anomalies, among other details, too casually. Moreover, I don’t see face value acceptance of that government narrative concerning al Qa’eda to be as “simple” as you perceive it, not when the security of the upper echelons of American government had been compromised by Israel long before the attacks. (See Insight Magazine’s exposé on the scope of Israeli espionage during the late nineties.) Too many coincidences, from the “b-thing” artists to airport security to Odigo … the list is lengthy.

    Were there 19 Arab hijackers, they were, at the very least, shepherded by Israeli operatives. There’s sufficient circumstantial evidence to make that hypothesis tenable and absolutely no objective reason to deride it.

    You suggested that one would have to be “diseased” for holding a perspective that, given the myriad coincidences and anomalies of the event, cannot be called an unreasonable hypothesis. Don’t call it argument ad hominem if you wish, but it does reveal your weakness.

  366. @Incitatus

    Okay, 1775. Whatever you’d prefer.

    Personally, I think the Declaration was a greater act of sedition against the Crown, but hey, what do I know?

    You’re mistra know-it-all.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  367. @Sean

    As I said “brings us much closer” to reasons for suspicion. You could well be right in your characterisation of the young jackasses and their behaviour but what I was getting at was that, if we knew for sure that they had prepared before the impacts (amazing what CGI can do for someone with a movie camera several miles away!!) to film the Manhattan skyline across the river towards the WTC then we would certainly need an explanation if we were not to believe in the foreknowledge of their employers. BTW. Big gap. Where is their film? What became of it? What does/did it show?

    • Replies: @Sean
  368. @ChuckOrloski

    Haha. I also see this phoney tried to assign you homework, and wrote: “Kindly define patriotism, then quote my offending disrespect.” Haha. Someone please tell him how he disrespects himself? Haha.

    Hey Chuck,

    Normally I don’t engage with trolls like Inchworm, and The Whizzer of Arse, because it is usually a huge time sink, and a futile to and fro debating with people who are not here to either teach or to learn, but to disrupt and obfuscate – the distraction of rogues. In a moment of weakness I succumbed and responded to the troll. I forgot that these rent-a-cunt Israeli trolls are paid by both the number of posts they make, as well as the number of responses they elicit. So, each time someone engages them, they are gifting shekels to these whores.

    You were right to have advocated BDS’ing their sorry little Israeli asses. As of right now, I will follow that advice.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Incitatus
  369. @AnonStarter

    Well there is another illustration of the handicap you labour under. Quotes around “diseased”. Why? Do you not know that this affirms that you are using my very own word – meum ipsissimum verbum indeed? But I didn’t use it. And if your intent is to contradict me with arguments against my arguments or speculations you should pay attention to what I have argued and not make it up as in your implication that I derided the hypothesis that you call “tenable” based on “circumstantial evidence”. Very odd! I have made no bones about my willingness to accept some Israeli involvement beyond what is acceptable for a genuine good ally.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  370. @AnonStarter

    What do you make of the “art students” whom you want me to pay more attention to. Do you think it has anything to do with 9/11? If so, what is the connection? From what I read, pretty casually, about them I would not be surprised if they were or included potential Mossad agents who were being given training or tests in a country where they could do it safely and with which it would be highly desirable that they were familiar. Can you take it further than that?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  371. tac says:
    @Sparkon

    Let’s put this in perspective. The picture you offer is from the inside of WTC6–after the WTCs came down–like so here:

    [MORE]

    Here is the aftermath of WTCs fall:

    How does that in any way contradict Jack White’s pictures from the relatively impact zone that I referred to from the street level of the North-East corner of the site? (Notice WTC7 in the upper right hand side, in between the two red buildings).

    for reference:

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  372. @Wizard of Oz

    /Do you not know that this affirms that you are using my very own word/

    Come now, counselor. I’m not taking a bar exam.

    It’s what you implied, though an implication with which I disagreed, hence the quotes. Obviously, you’re spending too much time writing briefs to appreciate that particular usage.

    /And if your intent is to contradict me/

    No, that’s not it.

    You felt the above offered hypothesis for Silverstein’s statement was unreasonable, and at a glance, one may see how this is so, but the fact remains that Silverstein’s remarks were, of themselves, highly suspect, to say the least. One’s gut instinct upon watching and listening to him is to conclude that he’s speaking of taking down the building. It’s an unmistakable conclusion, and while, of itself, it doesn’t constitute evidence of his complicity in a crime, the statements, in conjunction with the unmistakable appearance of a controlled demolition of WTC7 and all other conspicuous facts concerning WTC7, do raise legitimate problems that aren’t so easily resolved by simple incredulity at the idea that, at the time of the interview, Silverstein might have felt compelled to provide an explanation for the destruction that had the appearance of truth, yet was nevertheless untrue. (Sean himself is convinced Silverstein lied in that interview — an assertion that dovetails nicely with this hypothesis.)

    Indeed, it seems outlandish to think that one complicit in such a crime would be so careless as to suggest that he was. This is the sole supposition by which we consider it unreasonable to infer that Silverstein openly admitted complicity. Yet Silverstein would have been aware of the effort to take down WTC6 with cables, and it isn’t unreasonable to infer that, in attempting to explain away controlled demolition by explosives, he sought a commonly identifiable means of demolition with which eyewitnesses would have been familiar, one that would provide an ostensibly rational explanation for it.

    And Silverstein had little need to worry. After all, most of the forensic evidence at the largest crime scene in American history was rapidly trucked away to remote sites where it awaited shipment to China. (One truck driver who took too long a lunch break on his way to Fresh Kills was fired for so doing.) It isn’t as though he had to concern himself with a thorough forensic investigation.

    /your implication that I derided the hypothesis that you call “tenable” based on “circumstantial evidence”/

    You obviously misunderstand.

    Your derision (of which I assumed you were aware) was originally directed at a hypothetical explanation for the Silverstein quote. The tenable hypothesis is something else with which you may or may not agree.

  373. @Wizard of Oz

    /Can you take it further than that?/

    http://ariwatch.com/Links/SheaMemorandumIsrael/SheaMemorandumIsrael.htm

    Scroll to the end of it and take note of the correlations. Then, when you’ve got the time, read the rest of it.

    You might just like it. It’s written by a lawyer.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  374. Sean says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Where is their film? What became of it? What does/did it show?

    What could it show that the TV News were not showing far better?

    In fact CNN not only had vastly superior footage of the burning WTC, CNN had also caught the Palestinian reaction. Some film of that would be solid gold for Israel.

    Netanyahu has referred to the Palestinian street celebrations on the day of 9/11, but unlike CNN Mossad was apparently not prepared to catch in on film. If the burning WTC film was so valuable then their assignment would have been to get it back to base, yet they were overlooked and it only took one phone call from an onlooker to get them jailed and then interrogated by the FBI, which is no joke for anyone. It really is very silly to think that a group of intelligence agents on a secret mission would obtrusively demonstrate pre-knowledge by sitting up cameras on a rooftop before the event and hanging around there while they were as open to observation as those Israelis were.

  375. @Sean

    /What could it show that the TV News were not showing far better?/

    Oh, I don’t know … maybe the faces of the Israeli agents?

    Yes, they were shown on TV … in Israel, not in America.

    And, of course, the horizon wouldn’t have been shown far better, since the horizon was completely whitewashed from the photos.

    What interest does the FBI have in whitewashing the horizon? Or issuing a photocopy of a photocopy of a black-and-white print of the original photograph?

    Or even refusing to release the remaining photos?

    But go on with your bad, non-Jewish self and tell us more about those “evil” Palestinians and how there’s no rational explanation for any of them celebrating an attack on a country whose government nurtures the lifeblood of their enemy — an enemy that, ironically, also revels in the death of citizens from the very country that keeps them afloat.

    Go ahead. Feel free to be yourself.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  376. @Sean

    Sean,

    Mossad agents have been present at other terrorist actions, such as German journalist Richard Gutjahr who had foreknowledge of the terrorist attacks in Nice and Munich and went there to film the events. And don’t counter that by being a non-Jew he is not eligible to be a Mossad agent as Gutjahr is married to the former Israeli Knesset member and ex-intelligence officer Einat Wilf. And don’t counter that his wife is an ” ex-intelligence officer” as do they ever retire? And where would she have got information on the forthcoming attacks to pass to her husband? Yeah, coincidences. Everything with these Jews is a cohencidence, even God’s decision to select them as the chosen people.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Gutjahr

    • Replies: @Sean
  377. @Sean

    The quality of their filming of something that others were filming is not the point. But what they did actually film that morning could be. Did it appear from first to last that the WTC and only the WTC was being filmed. If not there might be suggestions of other motives than recording the planes hitting the Twin Towers.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  378. Sparkon says:
    @tac

    So what is the significance of Building 6? The plotters completely destroyed the Twin Towers, and effectively demolished Building 7, but they couldn’t quite get their act together to completely take down Bldg. 6, and instead just put a big hole in it? It doesn’t quite add up for me.

    In any event, let’s say you are right, and there was a bomb or explosives in Bldg. 6. Now what? We already have clear evidence that WTCs 1, 2 and 7 were demolished, so Bldg. 6 adds little to the overall picture and is more of a side show, unless I’m missing something.

    A big issue that nobody here wants to address is the theft of gold from vaults beneath the WTC.

    Why did the Queen of England knight NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani?

    • Replies: @tac
  379. @AnonStarter

    I’m not sure what to make of that. What point are you making about the faces of the Israeli agents who were all arrested?

    And what photos are you talking about? And please explain the reference to whitewashing and why you think itvwas done. Also what are the “remaining photos”? Has an FOI request been made for their release? What ground was given for refusal? Has the refusal been appealed? Reasons for decision on appeal?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  380. @Justvisiting

    Flight #93 was obviously supposed to return and strike Building #7 which, like the Twin Towers, had previously been wired for controlled demolition. My guess is that, unlike the pilots on the other 3 airliners, the pilots or flight engineer aboard Flight #93 somehow managed to regain control of the plane from the hacked flight controller, leading to the decision being made, by Dick Cheney, to shoot it down over Pennsylvania to prevent it from landing, followed by the pilots testifying as to the auto flight controller locking them out and taking control of the plane. Like the in-flight phone calls supposedly made from the airliners, the “let’s roll” story is theatre.

  381. @Sean

    That link comes up blank for me. Has it been wiped?

  382. @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard,

    Maybe their real film wouldn’t show any planes unlike what the media showed us on TV – pre-prepared CGI.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  383. Sean says:
    @Commentator Mike

    In Double Indemnity Fred McMurray’s character tells Barbara Stanwick’s that there cannot be anything unusual happening in their victim (her husband’s) life. Pre-planning you see. The Israelis may well have had a Mossad affiliation, but their behaviour suggests they were unaware of 9/11 and consequently had not thought through how to act when it happened. They would not have acted like they did otherwise. Or maybe they had just seen too many Beastie Boys videos.

    A lot of loose ends stemming from any arrest because the cops might have beaten them half to death, or the FBI might have given then the third degree and someone could break, They would not have dared risk anyone being arrested that knew too much, especially as a state of emergency might have been declared in which they could have been detained in jail indefinitely. No one can answer the obvious question: what might be in it for Mossad to make it worth the aforementioned risks and predictably get them arrested as they if fact were.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  384. @Commentator Mike

    So they went there to film demolitions? The problem with that is that it’s hard to believe that they would react in the excited way they allegedly did if all that happened was a couple of comparatively minor explosions where the planes had apparently hit.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  385. MarkinLA says:
    @DaveE

    You didn’t even bother to look up the Davey Crockett bomb did you? It had a yield between 10 and 20 TONS of TNT. Do realize what 10 tons of TNT would do to a normal commercial building?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_%28nuclear_device%29

    Stop with the blah, blah, blah and empty nonsense. You are no more a nuclear weapons expert than I am.

  386. @Sean

    Sean and Wizard,

    I don’t want to speculate too much as all we have to go on is what we’ve been told in the MSM. I suppose the FBI got it out of them who they truly were and what they were up to but we won’t know for a long time, if ever.

    It does seem unusual that they would celebrate unless they wanted any possible observers to mistake them for Arabs or unless they knew more, such as that this event would turn the US against the Arabs even more and lead to the war on Iraq and removal of Saddam Hussein, their arch enemy at the time.

    Yes they could have just been filming the demolition to see how it went, presumably being in cahoots with the art students who had been laying the explosives and detonators in the WTC earlier, if that is believable. Or to document if some other more advanced weapons were used. They may not have been on a direct Mossad mission but just on their own initiative having picked up some intel from their Israeli contacts. Anyway they’re a minor sideline to the main issue: who and how pulled down the buildings. Why we know, I’d say … to start the war on terror, invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and more later on. So some made some money along the way too, on the stock market and insurance.

  387. @Commentator Mike

    “”So some made some money along the way too, on the stock market and insurance.”

    https://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/stockputs.html

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  388. @Wizard of Oz

    /I’m not sure what to make of that./

    I’m under the distinct impression that you never bothered to read Webb’s article.

    Did you even bother to look at the maps appended to the Shea Memorandum?

  389. @Wizard of Oz

    /it’s hard to believe that they would react in the excited way they allegedly did if all that happened was a couple of comparatively minor explosions where the planes had apparently hit./

    Is that how you’d like us to characterize pulling off a highly significant phase of the 9/11 operation? “A couple of comparatively minor explosions”?

    Are you serious?

    • LOL: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  390. @Sean

    I think your approach is a bit high brow to resonate with those stupid enough to blow up a federal building. You seem to be in love with your own sophistry.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @AnonStarter
  391. Sean says:
    @Alexandros

    I rarely leave my house. I do like it here. I would be an idiot to leave this chair, made to fit me —

    — Nero Wolfe in “Before I Die” (1947), chapter 2

    I am debating with internet armchair detectives, each with their own pet theory, not talking to men of action. To solve a case just from reading publicly available information about it would require a freakishly immense intellect and tremendous powers of concentration. It is a rare Truther commenter who does not think themself in possession of those qualities, and a perfect reasoner into the bargain.

    • Replies: @Alexandros
  392. @Sean

    It may be true that you don’t encounter many men of action, but it hardly carries any weight coming from a Jew. My point was merely that a wise traveller would better apply the “Hey Kid, wanna kill a Jew?” routine to the appropriate audience. Surely an erudite fellow as yourself would realize it. But as you enter ever familiar territory, I’m fine to see you waste your talents on canards like that.

    The more I argued with them, the more I got to know their dialectics. First they counted on the ignorance of their adversary; then, when there was no way out, they themselves pretended stupidity. If all this was of no avail, they refused to understand or they changed the subject when driven into a corner; they brought up truisms, but they immediately transferred their acceptance to quite different subjects, and, if attacked again, they gave way and pretended to know nothing exactly. Wherever one attacked one of these prophets, one’s hands seized slimy jelly; it slipped through one’s fingers only to collect again in the next moment. If one smote one of them so thoroughly that, with the bystanders watching, he could but agree, and if one thus thought he had advanced at least one step, one was greatly astonished the following day. The Jew did not in the least remember the day before, he continued to talk in the same old strain as if nothing had happened, and if indignantly confronted, he pretended to be astonished and could not remember anything except that his assertions had already been proved true the day before.

    Often I was stunned.

    One did not know what to admire more: their glibness of tongue or their skill in lying.

    We don’t really care whether you did 911 or not. You probably did given your character, opportunity and motive, but we’ll blame you for it in any case because ab uno disce omnes. We know what you are. If this issue is ever decided in a court, it won’t be your court.

    • Replies: @Sean
  393. @Tony Ryals

    Ashkenazi jews are typically about 40% Italian through the maternal line, see Jon Entine article at the quite Jewish Genetic Literacy Project, with many also having some Germanic or Slavic genes in the mix to a lesser degree.

    Sephardic Jews are middle eastern / Semitic genetically (very close kin to Arabs).

    So it’s not right at all to say without qualification that Jews are “white” if white means genetically white European.

  394. @Alexandros

    Ted Kaczynski is a bright guy, but I’d say that Sean’s chicken clucking would probably be fairly transparent to him.

    • Replies: @Sean
  395. Incitatus says:
    @AnonStarter

    “Personally, I think the Declaration was a greater act of sedition against the Crown”

    Agree. It codified reasons for separation, principles that invited support (though probably no more than a third actively supported rebellion; a third neutral; a third loyalist). Without France (money, arms, fleet –payback for 1763) it never would have succeeded. The remarkable thing was after military success an enduring nation was cobbled from the ruins and sustained. A nation imperfect, but better than many others. Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison were pivotal. Checks and balance essential.

    Revolutions are dangerous things. Successful revolutionaries suddenly become responsible for stable governance, the very thing they sought to destroy in their predecessors. It’s like hiring a demolition crew to (ultimately) build a building. No expert, but I’d wager disaster most often follows.

    Here’s one 20C disaster:

    [MORE]

    “When the Government of a nation is leading it to its doom, rebellion is not only the right but the duty of every man.”
    -Adolf Hitler ’Mein Kampf’ 1924, quoted by Generalleutnant Hans Speidel prior to 20 Jul 44 plot [Beevor ‘D-Day’ p.35]

    Lofty sentiment. Written after he (with scum-bag Ludendorff) unsuccessfully tried to topple Weimar in Nov 1923, waving a revolver and threatening the assembly of 3000 with a machine-gun set up in the gallery. Failed revolutionary Hitler was openly suicidal:

    “If it comes off, everything’s fine. If it doesn’t, we’ll hang ourselves.”
    -Adolf Hitler to Gottfried Feder 9 Nov 1923, Feder Tagbücher [Volker Ulrich ’Hitler: Ascent’ p.154]

    “Now all is lost”
    -Adolf Hitler, reaching for his revolver, to Helen Hanfstaengl [she talks him out of suicide] 9 Nov 1923

    “I’ve had enough. I’m done. If I had a revolver, I’d use it.”
    -Adolf Hitler to Landsberg Prison psychologist Alois Maria Ott [AH, arrested 11 Nov 1923, ends a ten-day hunger strike] mid-Nov 1923

    Hitler publicly threatened suicide on multiple occasions. Not chevalier-samurai seppuku. Hissy-fit disappointment. Falling party revenues and support in 1932 was one such occasion:

    “If the party falls apart, I’ll finish myself off with a pistol within three minutes”
    -Adolf Hitler contemplating declining support and party funds [-Göbbels, Tagebücher 2 Sep 1932 p.297].

    Do infantile (‘I’ll hold my breath unless you let me have my way’) suicide threats argue mature leadership? Don’t think so.

    In Hitler’s case (and probably many others) it was less about patriotism, more about absolute power:

    “If we do one day achieve power, we will hold on to it, so help us God. We will not allow them to take it away from us again.”
    -Adolf Hitler 17 Oct 1932 speech in Königsberg [campaign for Nov election after refusing cabinet post]

    He was right, of course. Until the day he poisoned his new Frau and blew his brains onto the bunker ceiling.

    By that time how many Germans had he killed? How many others?

    “You’re mistra know-it-all.”

    LOL! Wish it was so.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  396. @AnonStarter

    Yo could be right of course. But thinking it through it is much harder to envisage the scenario where they start dancing about and high fiving if they just wait and wait, not seeing any aircraft abd saying “what time do you make it Benny shouldn’t there be a hole blown in one of the Towers about now?”. OK, thinking it through, yes, they can’t tell when it’s going to happen so tension builds up and they get very excited when the *first* tower is “hit”. They would much less likely to be behaving the same way 16 minutes later when the South Tower was “hit”. Do you recall the timelines on observations of them? As a matter of interest I came across this when checking the timelines of the strikes:

    “9:03:00: Flight 175 crashes into the south face of the South Tower (2 WTC) of the World Trade Center, between floors 77 and 85. Parts of the plane, including the starboard engine, leave the building from its east and north sides, falling to the ground six blocks away.”

    Funny that I haven’t seen the comment of the CGI enthusiasts on that aircraft engine. Not even complaints about tbeir attempts to edit Wikipedia to eliminate such blatant lies.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  397. L Bean says:

    There were no “celebrating Palestinians” on 9/11, that was more Zionews. Did Wolf blitzer break it? I’m convinced he was coached leading up to 9/11, he had an almost completely different persona, a different poise and tone, and he was ready to go. Not unnerved at all. Anyway the dancing arabs footage was a completely unrelated celebratory video(from a holiday earlier that year iirc, anyway a complete fiction).

    See, they even have us repeating these little poisons to each other, in seemingly innocuous context, which really is not so innocuous. Let’s You And Him Fight should be the actual mosahd motto.

    I knew when Ehud Barak came on CNN or whatever that morning that we were in for a shitstorm of implausible sayings and doings. Within the hour they were talking about Bin Laden..and then “hey! Let’s ask Barak what he thinks about that, too!” Great TV that morning and a nice little buildup to the controlled demolition of “just the tip” of lower Manhattan, after lunch.

  398. Incitatus says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    “Hey Chuck, Normally I don’t engage with trolls like Inchworm, and The Whizzer of Arse, because it is usually a huge time sink, and a futile to and fro debating with people who are not here to either teach or to learn, but to disrupt and obfuscate – the distraction of rogues”

    “Teach and learn?” Said to phony-Christian Chuckles, PG’s harpie? LOL!

    Be honest. You don’t engage with critics because you have NO answers to obvious questions regarding your posts. Wrap yourself in pseudo patriotism, label critics as “Zionist shills”, then absent yourself from comment. Simple as that.

    Revolutionary? You’re a two-bit coward, unable to sustain an honest dialogue. Just like heckler ‘imogee’ Chuckles.

    “In a moment of weakness I succumbed and responded to the troll. I forgot that these rent-a-cunt Israeli trolls are paid by both the number of posts they make, as well as the number of responses they elicit. So, each time someone engages them, they are gifting shekels to these whores.”

    Well, we all occasionally lapse don’t we? Understandable. Sincere consolation. What a burden you bear! Breathe in, breathe out. You’re a valuable/viable human being, fully capable of indiscriminate hate in the first degree!

    Give a shout out to moronic Chuckles, self-hating Pole!

    “Rent-a-cunt Israeli trolls” and “gifting shekels to these whores”?

    Wow! Great language.

    What do you know about “cunts”, little pustule?

    Odds are Vaseline is your only true companion.

    • Troll: ChuckOrloski
  399. @Carroll Price

    Thanks Caroll. Good summary. Yet another cohencidence.

  400. Sean says:
    @Alexandros

    If you lost even a civil case on the evidence that you are claiming is cast iron for criminal charges against these named individuals, you would scream like a stuck pig there was nothing to it but mere accusation. It is not taken seriously (internet commenting while hiding behind a pseudonym is not serious) even by Truthers. There is not even one Truther line because as already stated you all have pet theories. So this endless commenting will go on and on and on because you like doing it and there is no personal cost attached. The people you name could stop you naming them if they wished, they don’t even bother.

    That quote you gave was about futile debate before WW1, a war from which Hitler emerged a proven man of action, not afraid to take extreme risks, and indeed he tried a putsch which ended with a bloody shootout with the police. Seeing as you are happily engaged in an endless futile debate it is a bit much to quote someone whose words were were not empty.

    Quite the coincidence that the Saudi king had Jamal Khashoggi, once the Saudi leadership’s emissary to Bin Laden, assassinated. Bin Laden was always one for the simple solution, as a young man when when he wanted to connect two room he took a sledgehammer and smashed through the wall between them leaving a huge jagged edged hole as Jamal Khashoggi (a long time friend and the most important promoter of Bin Laden’s image as a Mujahidin leader against the Russians in Afghanistan) later recalled. Bin Laden was a man of action.

  401. @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard,

    So you’ve got an 911 anomaly there: a passport survived the fire and crash but the black boxes didn’t. Doubts have been expressed about that jet engine belonging to either of the two planes. Sure strange it was found there but can we hope to explain everything just by going on what we’re told? There is the remotest possibility that the official story could be right, but then there is still evidence that there was foreknowledge of the plot and it was criminal to let it go to conclusion if indeed it went ahead as claimed.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  402. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    Bloviating Truthers wasting their time on the internet are the last ones who should be bringing up Kaczynski.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  403. @Commentator Mike

    I think our strong minded but human editor moderator reads a remarkable amount of the rubbish in UR comments so well done sparing him what must really make him grind his teeth and wonder whether it is all worth it – like CGI and no planes or nukes under the buildings. (Perhaps he ought to sponsor a post graduate or post-doctoral research project into the psychology of some of that stuff).

    I don’t deny that far sighted Israeli plotters mightn’t have seen advantage in pushing the US into war in Afghanistan but can one really overlook the simple proposition that no one could have got more satisfaction out of 9/11’s sufficiently successful execution than Osama bin Laden who must have rejoiced at getting the US mired in Afghanistan as the Soviet Union had been and as the US had been in Vietnam.

    It is significant that Ron, whose long journey from what he now regards as youthful naiveté, has given us so much of interest to read, hasn’t repeated a surprisingly unconvincing belief in Osama bin Laden’s denial, a couple of weeks after 9/11 that he had anything to do with it. His reasonimg was simply that terrorists nearly always claim credit for their outrages so ObL was to be believed. Not bad reasoning perhaps, except for excessive certainty, but it overlooked the problem ObL had with Mullah Omar demanding an assurance from him that he wasn’t responsible before blankly refusing American demands to give him up.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  404. @Commentator Mike

    There would have been four black boxes. If you are saying that none were found – or is it that those that were found were too badly damaged for recovery of any data? – can you please give what you regard as the best reliable source for that information. A NIST report perhaps? And, as for the passport, what is your best reliable source for that? I read about it intermittently but never in a context where it is explained what else presumably came from dead passengers or what signs of fire there were on any debris.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  405. tac says:
    @Sparkon

    Let me reduce the point made to a simple slogan:

    ‘This visually proves there were explosives used BEFORE WTC1 & WTC2 came down–discrediting the idea that the remnants of the WTC1 & WTC2 or other debris caused the destruction of the WTCs–all of them!” — Much like the audio evidence suggests, along with some scant visual evidence!

    Is that important for you or some here who seem fixated by tangential (nonetheless important) PIECES of the puzzle?

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  406. @Incitatus

    Thank you for your response.

    Look, I know you don’t like Hitler, but I’m not really interested in all of that.

    Nor do I have any grandiose expectations about anyone in America actually organizing a violent revolution and summarily establishing a superior variety of government. If he’s really lucky, Sean might harvest a Manchurian candidate or two, but no revolution.

    As for Wizard of Oz, I’m still trying to get him to look at some maps, but I think he’s too paranoid to check out the link, so I’ll have to register that as “not down with the revolution.”

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  407. Sean says:

    https://thehill.com/news-by-subject/defense-homeland-security/460393-justice-department-considering-releasing-name-in
    National Chair of the 9/11 Families & Survivors United for Justice Against Terrorism Terry Strada commended the decision.

    “We’re glad the Attorney General requested more time to look at this issue so that he can get this right,” Strada said, the AP reported. “This is not a state secret, plain and simple, and we’re counting on DOJ to apply the law faithfully and release the name to us.” […]

    The 9/11 Commission report found “no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded” the attacks, but it also stated “the likelihood” that Saudi government-sponsored charities may have been involved, according to the AP.

  408. @Wizard of Oz

    Officially

    In accordance with FAA regulations, United 93’s cockpit voice recorder recorded the last 31 minutes of sounds from the cockpit via microphones in the pilots’ headsets, as well as in the overhead panel of the flight deck. This is the only recorder from the four hijacked airplanes to survive the impact and ensuing fire.The CVRs and FDRs from American 11 and United 175 were not found,and the CVR from American Flight 77 was badly burned and not recoverable

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-911REPORT/pdf/GPO-911REPORT.pdf

    or say in the MSM

    There are rare cases where black boxes are lost or destroyed. In addition to the still-missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370, the recorders belonging to the two planes that struck New York’s World Trade Center on 11 Sept 2001 were never recovered.

    http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20161005-inside-an-aeroplanes-black-box

    But even that is being denied with claims that the firemen did find 3 of the 4 recorders.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/no-airliner-black-boxes-found-at-the-world-trade-center-senior-officials-dispute-official-911-claim/5400891

    https://www.911facts.dk/?p=7526&lang=en

    Someone is lying. And when you’ve been lied to about so many big vital issues of modern history then you start to doubt everything.

    According to you OBL knew exactly what he had to do to bring the two towers down into their footprints and was able to plan and execute all that from his cave in Afghanistan without any of the so many security agencies charged with defending the US, or any of their allied foreign agencies, getting any wind of it and mounting an effective defense. Now that to me sounds more unbelievable than some of the more exotic conspiracy theories. I’d say there’s a very slight remote possibility of the official story being true. If I had to express it in terms of some probability I don’t know what I’d ascribe: 1% or 0.1%. And you? You claim 100% certainty in the official story? I wonder how other readers would estimate it.

  409. @Wizard of Oz

    “How Ehud Barak pulled off 9/11 ” – Uncensored.co.nz “Ehud Barak was actually the first person to call for the US to invade Afghanistan , something he did only hours after the attacks .”

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  410. Sparkon says:
    @tac

    I have already noted that there were huge explosions before WTC 1 and WTC 2 were destroyed, most spectacularly in the fake airplane crashes that created huge fireballs, and which also rained burning debris down all around the WTC site.

    The original World Trade Center Buildings 3, 4, and 5 were also at least partially destroyed, but apparently without explosives, and all the damage to those buildings has been attributed to falling debris and/or fires.

    So anyway, what is your conclusion? What does it prove if Bldg. 6 was intentionally partially demolished? What is the significance of it and how does it fit into your narrative? It’s already clear enough that WTC 1 and WTC 2 were destroyed with explosives, and WTC 7 was effectively demolished with explosives. In fact, the entire WTC complex was effectively destroyed.

    We know that.

    But why have you said not one word about the gold thefts? That’s not the piece of the puzzle you’re looking for, is it?

    Not that you are alone in dodging the important point. It seems that GOLD theft as a topic of discussion is Kryptonite at UR, following the usual pattern of many here covering up for former Pres. George W. Bush.

  411. Art says:

    9/11 is coming apart —- Every day there are new voices.

    New York Area Fire Commissioners Adopt 9/11 Resolution

    … …. ….

    Whereas, the overwhelming evidence presented in said petition demonstrates beyond any doubt that pre-planted explosives and/or incendiaries — not just airplanes and the ensuing fires — caused the destruction of the three World Trade Center buildings, killing the vast majority of the victims who perished that day;

    https://www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org/2019/07/27/new-york-area-fire-commissioners-adopt-9-11-resolution/

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  412. @Hans

    I am not aware of that photograph of molten metal falling from the hole in the building being regarded as evidence that steel beams or columns melted. Maybe you can cite something???

    But probably not because it is pretty clear that it is molten aluminium from the plane.

    • Replies: @james charles
  413. You don’t engage with critics because you have NO answers to obvious questions regarding your posts. Wrap yourself in pseudo patriotism, label critics as “Zionist shills”, then absent yourself from comment.

    Ha! Just proved the little Inchworm wrong! As for calling him/her/it a “Zionist shill”, the shoe fits.

    I love it when I can make these little pissants apoplectic and starting to blather. I am waiting to see their capillaries break! They think they can tempt me into responding to them with such amateurish taunts! I hope they hold their breath…

    I wonder if they get paid for responding to each other or to themselves?

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  414. @Commentator Mike

    Why do you even posit my 100% acceptance of the official story with a question mark. I have made my uncertainties clear. You are also overstating what I was saying about ObL. First, I was genuinely drawing attention to the need to ask the usual cui bono question and recognise how, maybe combined with Occam’s Razor you were left with the case against Al Qaeda being at least acceptable. Of course proof of actual demolitions, while not precluding Al Qaeda involvement, complicates the picture. Please also note that ObL was reportedly surprised that the buildings collapsed so you only need to consider tbat three or four planes hitting important buildings was quite enough for his purposes.

  415. @Commentator Mike

    Thanks for some instructive links including some further links they led me to.

    Assuming just one out of 8 black boxes was found and decipherable, that may be surprising but how would we know, but what it does do is knock on the head the idea that there were no hijackers (or planes or passengers!!) , just CGI, What was heard on the cockpit voice recorder would interest me too.

    Now I see from one of your links yet another version, namely that there were black boxes from both Flight 93 and Flight 77. Again, if true, not good for some of the conspiracy theories, especially the madder ones. I also followed up on NORAD and General Eberhard and, despite reading some conspiracist rumblings can’t see that there is any help for truthers there. It’s not even worth the time to spell it out but, in brief, things happened too fast for lumbering NORAD and, anyway, who’s going to shoot down an airliner full of civilians when it is over heavily populated areas and might not be aiming to crash into anything?

    As to the failure of pilots to send the emergency code, if it did apply to all four planes that is, just barely, supportive of some conspiracy. But still well within the bounds of human fallibility. When was the code last even drawn to their attention as something they would almost certainly have to look up? Say two years before. In those days did they even lock cabin doors securely?

  416. Tony Ryals says: • Website

    9/11:Saudi Oil:North-North West Is Israel NOT Iran

    The earliest reports were that attak priginated from the North Northwest which points back to Israel NOT Iran.Even at this late date Saudis who hate Iran have not accused them because they know the truth.Only pressure from U.S. and Saudi Arabia’s dangerous pseudo ally Israel will pressure them to lie.But perhaps like the UAE they will wake up to the fact that after Israeli staged 9/11 to incite U.S. to attack Iraq and Afghanistan,then Libya and Syria for Israel that they and the UAE are Israel’s ultimate targets in the Nazi like plan to form Greater Israel on the graves.

    And just as Israel’s control of the U.S. allowed the Zionists to destroy the Christians of the Middle East who they hated,Israel is quite happy to juse the U.S. to destroy itself for their Russia which is the cradle of Israeli Zionists and a country that they control with Jewish oligarchs.

    Saudi Oil Attack Photos Implicate Iran, U.S. Says; Trump Hints …

    https://www.nytimes.com › 2019/09/15 › world › middleeast › iran-us-saudi…

    3 days ago – [Investigation: Who was behind the Saudi oil attacks? …. the attack came from the north or northwest, consistent with an attack from Iran or Iraq, ..

    Saudi oil attacks: Nato chief ‘extremely concerned’ about …

    https://www.bbc.com › news › world-middle-east-49721301

    2 days ago – Saudi oil attacks: Nato chief ‘extremely concerned’ about escalation …. oil facilities, and instead were launched from the north or north-west.

    Saudi oil attacks: Images show detail of damage – BBC News

    https://www.bbc.com › news › world-middle-east-49718975

    2 days ago – Saudi oil attacks: Images show detail of damage … a west-north-west direction, not Houthi-controlled territory which lies to the south-west of the …

    Saudi Arabia oil attacks: US blames Iran, further escalating …

    https://www.vox.com › saudi-arabia-oil-attack-houthis-yemen-iran-trump

    2 days ago – The US blames Iran for the Saudi Arabia oil attacks, further … the north or northwest — suggesting the attack originated not in Yemen, which is

  417. @Sean

    Tut-tut, Sean.

    Mind your manners in the presence of your superiors.

  418. Sean says:

    Yea, it is only those you accuse of mass murder that need not fear you.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  419. @Art

    Recent news. Very interesting.

    Thank you for sharing that.

  420. @Sean

    Let any I’ve accused of mass murder — if, that is, you can name a single individual — feel no need to fear me.

    All the better.

  421. @Wizard of Oz

    My point is that it was important to both Israel and Ehud Barak “the mastermind and architect of 9/11 ” that the US attack Afghanistan . According to the Jerusalem Post ,Israeli forces are presently training in Afghanistan and operating from an US air base . For Israel , Afghanistan is an important location from which to spy on Iran .

  422. @Wizard of Oz

    Even if they’re lying to us they may not have constructed all their lies well enough to be fully consistent, especially if the lies are coming from different sources. There are pro and con arguments any which way you wish to look at it. The 911 topic is absolutely huge and there’s no way any one person can cover everything; I just try to use my common sense. Then there are those who found that some of the named hijackers and alleged 911 victims have turned up alive and well.

  423. OK. I shouldn’t have quantified the extent to which you accept the official story – it’s hard to keep track of regular posters’ opinions in full.

    So let’s say it was OBL and the Taliban refusing to hand him over, as we were told, that sort of justifies the invasion of Afghanistan. But I think I remember that they tried to tie in Iraq and Saddam Hussein to the 911 plot too and then added the WMDs as an afterthought, or because the 911 connection wasn’t convincing enough, and the WMDs was also a fake accusation.

  424. RudyM says:

    Considering that another van was caught driving around on 9/11 with a mural of a plane going into the Twin Towers, I think it’s difficult to overestimate the chutzpah of certain apparently untouchable parties who at the very least (and I’m being very conservative here) had foreknowledge of the event. (That van is mentioned in the Mineta report, which I’m not finding online currently, but which I have on my home computer as a pdf, so I know it exists!)

    • Replies: @RudyM
  425. RudyM says:
    @RudyM

    Recording of police discussion of it here:

    Sorry if that has already been posted.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  426. RudyM says:
    @Sean

    If a conspiracy was controlling the US against the national interest that would be obvious in the actions taken by the USA.

    As, indeed, it has been obvious for some time now in US foreign policy, at the very least.

  427. RudyM says:
    @Sean

    Because obviously the extrajudicial execution of public officials over claims that are generally considered controversial at best would never be used by those in power to simply make things worse, in any number of ways (shutting down websites like this, gun confiscation, non-stop MSM coverage of the dangers of conspiracy theorists, etc.).

    • Replies: @Sean
  428. @RudyM

    With respect that’s a lot of time wasting crap, not so much evidence as material for defence counsel to use to confuse a jury. E.g. there is talk in it of a van blowing up. WTF?

  429. Sean says:
    @RudyM

    Let me take your scenario and do a thought experiment with it (to find what the world would look like, were the Israel-did-9/11 thesis true). If Israel did 9/11 as qualified to judge international relations professor Professor Kees van der Pijl (and virtually no similarly qualified others) say, then the worst that can happen is already here. The websites are allowed to continue because they are not having any effect, ditto ownership of AR15s, There is “non-stop MSM coverage of the dangers of conspiracy theorists” but even though an inveterate conspiracy theorist got elected President, nothing changed.

    If a conspiracy was controlling the US against the national interest that would be obvious in the actions taken by the USA.

    As, indeed, it has been obvious for some time now in US foreign policy, at the very least.

    Even the highest government officials and corporate executives are locked into the system. When it comes to independently wealthy individuals, they can do nothing more effective that chatter like an enraged monkey in the zoo

    As for the named conspirators being left to die of old age in luxury. They are no longer public officials, and even if they were to prevent them doing it again, and have a deterrent effect on unknown members of the same network, a public demonstration that those who do such things will suffer the most serious of consequences would be absolutely appropriate. It would be dangerous for the executioner however, so simple cowardice among Truthers could explain their impotence as understandable inability to act for fear on the consequences to themselves and their families, even though it would be for the good of the entire country. But only a tiny fraction of a percent of Truther believers, say one in million men are capable of acting in this matter, even if they must act alone and be misunderstood. So it is a matter of persuading beyond reasonable doubt of the Israel-did-it Truther case and getting the man in a million willing to do the necessary. (Thought experiment ends). I think the Truther enterprise is not explicitly calling for assassinations, but that is the logic of what they are doing, because they cannot be under the illusion that the already lockdowned system can be used to dismantle itself.

    The exhaustive investigation by the FBI, which is renowned among foreign secret services as the most thorough investigative and counter intelligence agency in the world, found nothing to suggest the dancing Israelis’ involvement in 9/11. The dancing Israelis may have had connections to their homeland’s intelligence services, but in custody not only did they talk to the FBI, but they were polygraphed while answering questions, which they most certainly would not have done if they were involved in a secret operation to mass murder Americans and were in the custody of American counter terrorism experts. They would only have to be tripped up once by Federal experts in interrogative pressure and they would be detained indefinitely and told they must talk or be subjected to torture.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  430. Incitatus says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    “Ha! Just proved the little Inchworm wrong!”

    Really? I suggested “you have NO answers to obvious questions regarding your posts”. Your response:

    “As for calling him/her/it a “Zionist shill”, the shoe fits. I love it when I can make these little pissants apoplectic and starting to blather. I am waiting to see their capillaries break! They think they can tempt me into responding to them with such amateurish taunts! I hope they hold their breath…”

    QED: You have NO answers to obvious questions regarding your posts.

    “blather…amateurish taunts”?

    LOL! How did you artfully put it – “The shoe fits”?

  431. “Ha! Just proved the little Inchworm wrong!”

    Really? I suggested “you have NO answers to obvious questions regarding your posts”.

    LOL!

    The little Inchworm continues to bray desperately!
    At least he confessed to being an Inchworm in the above!
    He thinks he has “obvious questions” that deserve responses. Trolling does not qualify as “obvious questions”, only Israeli trolls think they do.

    Keep braying, little Inchworm. I can do this all day.

  432. For the last word on the “dancing Israelis ” see ” The Dancing Israelis’ FBI Report – debunked ” by
    takeourworldback.com . It concludes that the FBI’s conclusion was politically motivated and that the FBI’s Washington office ordered their Newark office to stop investigating the case . The FBI is far from being a “renowned” organization and has been involved in one scandal after another . For example, a few years ago Dr. Whitehurst exposed fraud and mismanagement at the FBI crime lab involving thousands of cases and the “alteration of reports and alteration of evidence “.
    The FBI’s documents on the “dancing Israelis “were partially released in 2005 but many documents still remain redacted and classified and will not be released until 2030 or 2035 . Why ? Who are they protecting ?
    “Nonetheless , the material that has been released is sufficient to prove that the Israelis did indeed have foreknowledge of the attacks on the WTC.”

  433. Incitatus says:
    @AnonStarter

    “Nor do I have any grandiose expectations about anyone in America actually organizing a violent revolution and summarily establishing a superior variety of government…”

    Hope you’re right. Most advocates, faceless internet Robespierre windbags, harmlessly deflate punctured by actual questions. Then, of course, there’s always the chance one will end up at Walmart with a grudge locked-and-loaded with full magazines.

    “If he’s really lucky, Sean might harvest a Manchurian candidate or two, but no revolution.”

    Haven’t followed Sean but don’t generally believe in conspiracies. Liked the movie.

    “I’m not really interested in all of that [Hitler]”

    Fair point, apologies. Reflex on my part. So many on UR daily marinate themselves in Nazi-necrophilia it’s hard not to use every opportunity to post quotes that expose their romance with rotten leadership.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  434. @Sean

    /The exhaustive investigation by the FBI/

    For shame, Sean:

    https://www.unz.com/article/what-did-israel-know-in-advance-of-the-911-attacks/

    Before such issues had been fully explored, however, the in­­vestigation was shut down. Following what ABC News reported were “high-level negotiations between Israeli and U.S. government officials”, a settlement was reached in the case of the five Urban Moving Systems suspects. Intense political pressure apparently had been brought to bear. The reputable Is­­raeli daily Ha’aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified “prominent New York congressmen” were lobbying heavily for their release. Ac­­cording to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Der­showitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government. (Dershowitz declined to comment for this article.) And so, at the end of No­­vem­ber 2001, for reasons that only noted they had been working in the country illegally as movers, in violation of their visas, the men were flown home to Israel.

    /they were polygraphed/

    Paul Kurzberg, who refused to take a polygraph test for 10 weeks, failed it when he did. Dominik Suter, lead man of the false front movers, fled to Israel before he could be questioned further.

    Who needs thought experiments when you’ve got facts?

    • Replies: @Sean
  435. @Incitatus

    /Then, of course, there’s always the chance one will end up at Walmart with a grudge locked-and-loaded with full magazines./

    How many times has something like this happened in living memory? It’s certainly not the stuff of which revolutions are made.

    /don’t generally believe in conspiracies/

    They’re real. People conspire all the time, some to do good.

    Seems quite a few believe that a person named Osama bin Laden conspired with others and successfully pulled off the greatest attack against America since Pearl Harbor. Depending on which source you trust, he either claimed responsibility or he didn’t. That also appears to be a matter of belief.

    Then you’ve got something like this:

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a29073804/navy-ufo-videos-real/

    Never was much a believer in this sort of thing, though I also know better than to imagine that there are only two opinions about it or to think that it’s necessary to have any opinion about it at all.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  436. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    The Dancing Israelis were most likely Mossad agents we already knew that in 2007. Anything could have happened to them in the aftermath of 9/11, and I am not talking about standard police methods and imprisonment, so they would not have dared risk attracting attention. I think that indicates that did not have a plan how to act on 9/11 because they did not know about it beforehand, acted like jackasses and did get arrested.

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-missing-28-pages/
    Some of the money that wound up in the hands of the 9/11 terrorists, 15 out of 19 of whom were Saudis, came through what is referred to as cut-out channels from the Saudi Embassy in Washington, where Prince Bandar bin Khalid al-Faisal was Ambassador. Nearly $130,000 appear to have wound up in the hands of two of the hijackers Nawaq al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Midhar, sums originating from the Embassy in Washington and the Saudi Consulate General in Los Angeles. Much of the money came from the personal bank account of Bandar’s wife Princess Haifa bint Faisal and also through the Embassy’s religious affairs office.

    I think Grimaldi makes a mistake when he says Saudi intel are the likely suspects for any Saudi involvement with bin Laden. That would be Turki bin Faisal who quit as Saudi secret service chief ten days before 9/11. Prince Turki’s right hand man as head of Saudi Intelligence was Jamal Khashoggi, and both knew just how little of what Khashoggi the spy/journalist had reported from Afghanistan about his friend Osama bin Laden the Mujahedin leader was true. The Saudis started to take him seriously after the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, and Prince Turki secured an agreement from the Taliban to hand over bin Laden but they went back on it after Clinton’s bombing of his Afghan training camps.

    A far more likely suspect would be Bandar bin Sultan, Reagan wanted the Contra’s funded. Bandar gave them 32 million through a Swiss bank. Woodward says that Bandar is also the one who gave the money the head of the CIA used to pay a British ex special forces officer to try and assassinate Sheik Fadlalla in Lebanon, a 1985 car bomb that killed 80 innocent people. So he is not stranger to such things. Bandar’s motive for orchestrating or at least having his minion smoothing the way of bin Laden’s operatives to 9/11 would be forcing the US to remove its army from Saudi Arabia in order to protect the Saudi family dictatorship from domestic unrest about the aforementioned US army in the country which would entail ousting Saddam (whose leadership of Iraq made the US army in Saudi Arabia necessary).

    A group of 9/11 survivors and families of the victim have just had that released to them the identity of the individual whose name was redacted from the missing 28 pages finally released by Obama, this is another connection to Bandar I suspect.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  437. And Bandar no doubt another Saudi prostitute of Zion.Reagan was too,.It was the Jewish mafia who made him president as Whitney Webb documented so well..And you are correct the Israeli Mossad is completely inept mass murderers but they were and are protected by the NSA,CIA and FBI,AIPAC and the JDL,et.al. – not to mention Israeli agent and terrorist Michael Chertoff.
    Even the U.S. court system is infiltrated by Israelis like Zionist scum like Alvin Hellerstein and this is why Jewish scum like Paul Singer can use the NY court system to shake down and rob and mug an entire country like Argentina and yet Argentine people can’t get reparations for Israel’s collusion with so-called Argentine Nazi military that Israel armed against the massacred citizens and raped women of Argentina by the military junta any more than Americans can.Even the UK government and BBC were and are silent on Israeli military sales to Argentine junta that enriched Israel while murdering soldiers on both sides.
    And as you’ve said the inept Mossad flew home first class thanks to Chertoff,et.al.,while Americans and Iraqis and Afghans ony died.And even still a hard rains a gonna fall some more.

  438. @Sean

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israel-spies-and-spies-and-spies/

    Israel’s high-risk spying is legendary, but the notion that it is particularly good at it is, like everything having to do with the Jewish state, much overrated. Mossad has been caught in flagrante numerous times. …

    John Cole has also reported how many cases of Israeli espionage are dropped under orders from the Justice Department., making the Jewish state’s spying consequence free. He provides a “conservative estimate” of 125 viable investigations into Israeli espionage involving both American citizens and Israelis that were stopped due to political pressure. [emphasis added]

    125 viable investigations stopped due to political pressure. The Liberty attack investigation whitewashed due to political pressure. Israeli espionage during the Clinton years untouched due to political pressure. And the dancing shlomos freed before the FBI could properly conclude its investigation due to political pressure.

    They had nothing to worry about, since there were plenty of precedents for unrequited chutzpah and plenty more examples pile up to this day. Not sure what planet you’re living on, but Israel owns America. You speak as if this isn’t common knowledge here, which is why you’re not reaching anyone. Let just one poster prove me wrong.

    Going Michael Moore on us in an attempt to pit renegades of the House of Saud against Israel is just another lame attempt at imposing a false dilemma upon the narrative.

    It certainly doesn’t render your lie about an “exhaustive FBI investigation” of the shlomos any more true than it was before you told it.

  439. Sean says:

    The Dancing Israelis: no smoke without fire.

    It is often suggested that an operation like 9/11 could not have been done by religious fanatic
    Madrassa graduates, this is likely true and in fact bin Laden decided not to use his Jihadists but those experienced at living in the West and students technical subjects who could get by in English, and had the ability learn the demeding level of skill to navigate and pilot the planes onto the towers Three out of the four 9/11 hijacker pilots were from the Hamburg cell of educated Muslims. For instance Ziad Jarrah was from a wealthy secularist family and had attended Christian schools in his homeland of Lebanon. he was studying aerospace engineering in Germany and spoke the language well. He and his pals went to a training camp in Afghanistan with the intention of fighting in Chechnya, but were told by bin Laden that they had been selected for a secret mission and to train as pilots. Ziad left for America where he was a full time student pilot. We can judge his English language skill by listening to him announcing the seizing of United Airlines Flight 93 to its unfortunate victims.


    The leader of the 9/11 hijackers Mohammed Atta had two sisters, one a medical doctor and the other is a professor, he excelled at school. Osama bin Laden’s son married the daughter of Atta. Bin Laden’s father rose from poverty to become the wealthiest self made man in the country, largely though his people skills and ability to manipulate the Saudi royal family . There is little reason to believe bin Laden was a simpleton in the realm of conspiracy and thus his denials of responsibility can be taken at face value, and more that the occasions when he is seen on tape discussing how he organised 9/11.

    A key objection to any idea the Saudis were framed is the origin of the hijackers’ organisation being dissident Saudi bin Laden was still a massive blow to the credibility of the regieme. the Saudi royal family would never have allowed responsibility to be pinned on even rebel Saudis if that were not true, because it very seriously damaged their influence and made them lose all face internationally. And I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the Jews have zero influence in Saudi Arabia as advisors to the Saud family; Israelis are not even allowed in the country.

    Israel owns America

    It would seem that being already in control not only of the entire range of media including Michael Moore, as well as the Legislature, Executive, Armed Forces, CIA, and FBI, Israel would had no obvious need to do 9/11. So if you are right about 9/11, you are wrong about Israel owning America.

    You lack inner resistance against the tendency to go to futile extreme in armchair Sherlock Holmes mode behind a pseudonym. It may appear very tough-mindedly cynical, but nothing comes of your learned-helplessness-as pleasurable-pastime comments.

    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
    , @AnonStarter
  440. @Sean

    Then by your illogic Israelis had no reason to takeover through stock fraud,(ICTS International),and ‘guard’ Logan Airport on 9711 either.And of course no reason to have no video surveillence in the airport to show Moha<med Atta and his merry Saudi men waving goodbye as they mounted their trustee passenger planes.Was that the first time Menachem Atmon and his Shin Beit goons or anty other Israeli airport security failed to stop Islamic terrorists ? Have they ever failed in Isra-hell ?

    [MORE]

    And they also personally flew Richard Reid the 'shoe bomber' to Isra-hell before 9/11 so according to Debkra he could conveniently traipse over to Gaza and get ex`losives for his future shoe bomb from Hamas ! Then a month after 9/11 THEY WERE CONVENIENTLY STILL EMPLOYED WITH AMERICAN AIRLINES EVEN THOUGH THEIR INCOMPETENCE AT BEST COST THREE THOUSAND LIVES IN NY WTC AND SOMEHOW ALLOWED REID TO TRAIPSE ON TO AA FLIGHT 264 WITH HIS 'SHOE BOMB' AT DEGUALLE AIRPORT IN PARIS ! AND THEN IN LONDON A FEW YEARS LATER,7/7/05 THEY WERE PAID BY THE CITY OF LONDON TO PUT VIDEO CAMERAS ON BUSES INCLUDING THE ONE THAT BLEW UP DURING THE ALLLEGED ISLAMIC TUBE BOMBINGS ANDE GUESS WHAT – THEY FORGOT TO INSTALL THE CAMERAS THEY WERE PAID TO INSTALL AGAIN.AND NOT TO FORGET THE NIGERIAN ISLAMIC 'CROTCH BOMBER' IN CHRISTMAS 2009 WHO WAS ALMOST PUSHED ONTO FLIGHT 253 FROM SCHIPHOL AMSTERDAM AIRPORT TO DETROIT WITH HIS SO- ALLED CROTCH BOMB.AND YES NONE OF THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED NPR OTHER EVENTS LATER HAD MENACHEM ATZMON AND HIS SHIT BEIT SQUAD BEEN STOPPED AT LEAST IMMEDIATELY AFTER 9/11 FROMOPERATING IN THE U.S. or EU or UK ETC..

  441. Incitatus says:
    @AnonStarter

    “How many times has something like this [random shootings] happened in living memory? It’s certainly not the stuff of which revolutions are made”

    Was WW1 revolutionary? Most describe it as epochal.

    The spark? Yugoslav nationalist Gavrilo Princip (19-years-old) kills Habsburg heir Franz Ferdinand (age 50) 28 Jun 1914. Agendas of most of Europe (suicide-pact alliances; paranoid dreams of conquest) leap to unprecedented slaughter.

    ‘Random’ violence is easily orchestrated to strip governments of confidence/support and leverage change benefiting minority control. Example? Weimar Germany. Forty parties fought for Reichstag seats. NSDAP vs. KPD vs. SPD vs. DDP vs. DVP vs. etc. Monarchists, the far right, and Communists were more than willing to use violence, escalated one by another. Far right Organisation Consul, for example. Created by members of Marinebrigade Ehrhardt (a Freikorps unit formed by Captain Hermann Ehrhardt, disbanded after the failed 1920 Kapp Putsch). They alone were responsible for 354+ political murders 1919-22.

    Hitler/NSDAP at best [31 Jul 1932] won 230 of 608 seats in the Reichstag [305 required for a majority] prior to appointment by a monarchist in 1933. He wasn’t elected. A minority was able to exert control on a majority (he had 400,000 SA thugs, outnumbered 100,000 Reichswehr 4:1). Within a month, Hitler had total control (no need for legislative approval).

    Any régime that cannot sustain confidence in due process, law and order is at risk.

    Today multi-source media leverage feeds who-knows-what to who-knows-whom from who-knows-what source. Makes prediction difficult. Possibly much more dangerous. Imagine Gavrilo Princip on Facebook with a AR-15.

    Golden age of noble libertarianism (whatever that is) or apex of nihilism? Time will tell.

    “They’re real. People conspire all the time, some to do good.”

    Of course.

    Let be more concise. I’m generally skeptical of UR conspiracies (Wilson started WW1; Churchill + FDR started WW2, Mahatma Hitler didn’t want war, Heydrich was Mr. Popular because he traveled in a cabriolet, Jews-Israel are smarter than the CIA, etc.).

    Let alone conspiracy-for-profit celebrities like ‘Sandy- Hook’ Alex Jones, ‘Un-nescessary war’ Pat Buchanan, PCR, Richard Gage of AE911Truth, etc. Conspiracy in the internet age is a boutique profit center for celebrity ‘op-ed’ authors, aspiring celebrities, 501c3 parasites (i.e. just give them the tax break and exempt slush fund).

    Don’t disbelieve conspiracies thrive. The $7+ trillion 2007-08 mortgage-derivative conspiracy (including tax-payer bail-out, Octopus-Squid Goldman-Sacks first and formost) for example. The GWB/neocon crimes-against-peace and aggressive war conspiracy Iraq 2002-03. Probably a few others, but I’m no expert..

    UFOs? Agnostic. Sure why not? Just don’t believe we have them on ice in Area-51 Roswell.

    That’s the world we (I) live in.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  442. @Sean

    /It is often suggested/

    But not by me.

    Another strawman:

    /the Jews have zero influence in Saudi Arabia as advisors to the Saud family/

    … the key phrase being “as advisors to the Saud family.”

    Why, while they were in America, would hundreds of Israeli “art students” living in close proximity to the ever-so erudite hijackers need to act “as advisors to the Saud family” in order to collaborate with those hijackers?

    //Israel owns America//

    It’s American idiomatic English, not to be inferred as “omnipotent control,” but you probably already knew that.

    Indeed, Israel holds extremely powerful sway over American media, far more so than does the House of Saud. Michael Moore mentioned nothing about the dancing shlomos or art students in his 9/11 documentary, an act which would surely have sabotaged his career. Take it up with Joel Stein if you don’t believe me.

    Carl Cameron was able to report on Amdocs and the art students, though his exposé didn’t last long on the Fox News website. I ought to know: I followed it when it first broke and saw how quickly Fox sent it down the memory hole. It only survives because some folk were wise enough to save a copy of it before it was deep-sixed. ABC’s report on the shlomos was another exception to the general rule, though the story was too hot to ignore, so Barbara Walters assumed the task of damage control. If you had watched the episode, you’d know how it concludes: nothing to see here, move along folks — eerily echoing the kind of obfuscation that is your stock-in-trade.

    Paul Findley couldn’t get a single major publishing house to print his brilliant work on Israel’s stranglehold over American government, and it still spent over 9 weeks on the Washington Post’s bestseller list. Has it done anything to wrest American government from that grip? Not really, though that day may yet come. It still appears quite distant.

    Saying that Israel owns America isn’t the same as saying that Israel is God, not by a long shot. As Findley pointed out, though Israel originally opposed the sale of AWACS planes to Saudi Arabia in the early eighties, they then compelled congressmen to change their votes in favor of the sale because the inordinate influence of AIPAC was becoming a public relations concern and zionists didn’t want to overplay their hand at the time. Such sacrifices are not problematic if AIPAC determines it’s better for the Jews in the long run. Ah, the eighties seem a distant memory now …

    So to posit that the shlomos had nothing to worry about even before they were discovered is ultimately correct, the fact of their arrest and subsequent interrogation notwithstanding. The purloined letter was in plain sight.

    Now, as for your personal attacks, I agree that genuine helplessness is learned. Typically, man is too stubborn to admit his own weakness. Acknowledging that the strength he appears to possess is not his own is surely a step in the right direction. Personally, I prefer God and take great pleasure in Him. You’re not a man of that kind of faith, I can see as much, so I understand why you imagine nothing comes of it. Not my concern.

    But taking me to task for using an anonymous handle is peculiar coming from someone who won’t share his surname (assuming that Sean is your real first name). It appears that both of us don’t have much of an interest in being known here, so why all the barely concealed anger in the guise of pop psychology, Sean?

    Are you still upset that I caught you lying about the FBI investigation of the shlomos?

    Lighten up, dude.

    Sheesh.

    • Replies: @Sean
  443. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    Why, while they were in America, would hundreds of Israeli “art students” living in close proximity to the ever-so erudite hijackers need to act “as advisors to the Saud family” in order to collaborate with those hijackers?

    One of the hijackers lived briefly in New Jersey; he had some connection to the financial flows and there was also the Jersey City check-cashing company, Sphinx Trading Company ‘

    The pilot hijackers were in San Diego and Florida. These mid twenties Israelis move in nearby some of Arabs with vague connections to the hijackers and somehow Mossad not only penetrate a secret operation and not get those involved working for them, but use them to get all the others including the San Diego cell with three of the four pilots under these Mossad’s control. You would have to be a true Machiavellian genius to get even 10% of the way with a set up like that, and those Israelis cavorting around various locations in NJ with 9/11 was going like they were in a Beastie Boys video and getting arrested, were no geniuses. So how did they get what they wanted from the Arabs in NJ, ‘Afghanistan banana stand’?

    It is certainly possible that someone engaged on an operation could be manipulated by double agents of a foreign country (alway a good argument against anyone in the CIA ect obeying orders to do something egregious) but those who flew the planes were better educated than the average American. This kind of mind control scenario would be laughed out of any US court.

    Why aren’t you willing to use your true identity, if truly believing that at the stakes are so high as you say, you ought to be willing to make that sacrifice. You know as well as I do that what we are are doing is just a type of gaming.

  444. The analogy is a bit strained. Princip killed heads-of-state and his act garnered broad support among his countrymen. Crusius targeted random common folk, and, save by a very marginalized minority on the dark web, he was widely condemned by his countrymen.

    If anything, guys like Crusius don’t do their cause much good. What he’s done has not only failed categorically to influence government or social media in favor of his fellow travelers, he’s made it far more difficult for them.

    While true that some profit from their work concerning perspectives of history alternative to commonly advanced narratives, it’s also true that others benefit even more from acquiescence to politically “mainstream” portrayals of history. Compare Norman Finkelstein to Alan Dershowitz. Of the two, Dershowitz has derived far more material and political benefit from his positions on Israel while Finkelstein can’t get a single job in any American university.

    That said, since 9/11 skeptics have now surpassed critical mass in America, that would make those who continue to accept the official account no longer “mainstream” in any meaningful sense. I suppose one who regards their arguments as something akin to a snake oil sales pitch might be upset that they manage to turn a profit from it. Then again, given that there’s far worse exploitation occurring, it would be far wiser not to pay it any mind.

  445. Your points are well taken, though your fatal presupposition concerns the impossibility of prior collaboration between Israelis and Saudis:

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190211-ex-saudi-intelligence-chief-reveals-secret-israel-saudi-relations/

    The ex-Saudi Intelligence Chief Turki Al-Faisal this weekend revealed that secret relations between Israel and a number of Gulf states date back as far as 25 years.

    According to Qatari newspaper Al-Arab, Al-Faisal was interviewed by Israeli journalist Barak Ravid, who claims to have conducted interviews with 20 prominent Gulf officials with knowledge of secret relations with Israel. However, many of these people refused to speak to the camera, Israel’s Channel 13 reported. …

    In the series, Ravid claims he will reveal information about a “world of economic, political and military relations” between Israel and Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates (UAE). He adds that most Israelis do not know about these relations, as they are being run by the Israeli Foreign Ministry, together with Israel’s national intelligence agency Mossad. [emphasis added]

    No need to “penetrate a secret operation” if you were part of it from the get-go. That such a relationship existed 7 years before the 9/11 attacks provides us all the tenability we need.

    Yes, I suppose you could characterize our argument as a kind of “game.” Contrary to what you imagine, I certainly never considered it to be a “high stakes” conversation.

    Did you?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  446. @Incitatus

    Funny how one finds oneself never having formulated something obvious such as you draw attention to with your “conspiracies for profit celebrities” paragraph. Of course books and videos on conspiracies may have been generated by a money oriented cynicism quite equal to that of horror fiction writers, authors of bodice rippers or writers of Dan Brown type nonsense. What is the lesson? Perhaps it is just to question all new conspiracy theories or books or videos on them to see if they might best be explained by sheer cynicism and greed. In the age of Trump one could extend the guesses about motivation to whatever it was that created the monster that could get elected in November 2016.

    Thinking along those lines I regard it as reprehensible that institutions which can afford it, or at least have low cost interns, don’t check the supposedly impressive footnoting and other sourcing in books like Stinnett’s Day of Deceit which may not deserve the praise given by nice trusting people on UR who declare themselves impressed.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  447. @AnonStarter

    Is it not one of the problems that a sufficiently ingenious mind can come up with ways to fit all sorts of awkward facts and ill fitting oddities into one’s preferred narratives. Thus Larry Silverstein can be fitted into an Israeli demolition narrative – just, and the otherwise anomalous WTC 7 collapse can be treated as a plausible part of some people’s favorite narrative. But sill there is a place for common sense and avoiding unnecessary complexity.

    Let’s acknowledge that, for all that some PNAC intellectuals and friends might have seen America as undesirably passive and needing a kick in the butt the most obvious active enthusiasts for something like 9/11 would be Osama bin Laden and Israel (or at least Mossad and maybe Ariel Sharon). What do they need to happen? Several large planes flown by Arab hijackers striking major US buildings and killing quite a few people. Who needs to complicate that with demolitions which multiply the details of needed organisation and the risk of something going wrong many times over?

    The absolute key for truthers must be to prove that WTC 1 and 2 were demolished with explosives. While disagreeing with Sean about what a serious truther might do as an avenger, I am very much of the school of those who demand that people put their money where their mouths are and put corresponding effort into organisation. Where is that GoFundMe campaign seeking $2 million to have unimpeachable experts from MIT, CalTech and major consultancies to test all the attempts to show that WTC buildings must have been demolished with explosives?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Sean
  448. @AnonStarter

    AnonStarter,

    Many say that everyone was locked and loaded for WWI and all that Princip did was provide the spark. He and his group sure had a grievance and the support of Serbia but was there an even greater conspiracy behind that of his Young Bosnia and the masonic Black Hand guiding him? Like let’s say he had failed would they have looked for some other spark, event, or excuse to start their war? You can’t expect them to put all their eggs in one basket can you?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  449. @Commentator Mike

    Mike,

    I agree. I don’t imagine the spark that ignited war had, of necessity, to be Princip. Any one of a number of causes would have been sufficient for those in whose interest it was to incite conflict.

  450. @Wizard of Oz

    So did you bother to check the maps appended to the Shea Memorandum yet?

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Wizard of Oz
  451. Sean says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The absolute key for truthers must be to prove that WTC 1 and 2 were demolished with explosives.

    Not really, the WTC towers had been attacked with explosives by radical Muslims before. Them putting explosives in the upper floors instead of the sub basement level of the building might be one way they could increase the effect of their attack. I see no reason why the feasibility constraints of pre placing explosive should not be the same for bin Laden’s organisation as for anyone doing a false flag.

    Let’s acknowledge… the most obvious active enthusiasts for something like 9/11 would be Osama bin Laden and … maybe Ariel Sharon)

    Saudi Arabian strategists considered Saddam’s Iraq their greatest threat before it was crushed in Kuwait, but I am dubious about after, Likewise Israel sharing that concern subsequent to Israel planes having flown over Saudi Arabia to blow up Iraq’s nuclear reactor and then Sannam getting his military machine crushed in Kuwait made him fat less dangerous. A nuclear program and a large intact army made Iran the bette noir of both Saudi Arabia and Israel in 2000. Saudi Arabia had the a troublesome Shai minority looking to Iran, and a large US army in the country to protect from a greatly weakened Saddam causing internal dissent. Iraq’s threat to Saudi Arabia’s Saud family regieme was very indirect and the real danger the Saud family felt was entirely from the fury of domestic rebels like bin Laden at the presence of an America army in their sacred homeland.

    Israel was worried about Iran, and there is the huge problem for the thesis that Israel did a false flag 9/11 to get Iraq invaded that the there was no framing of Iraq built into 9/11, none at all. They 9/11 hijackers were not Iraqis or connected with Saddam. As far as an Israeli motive for a false flag 9/11, there certainly was the compensation for the families of suicide bombers that Saddam was paying. But compensating the living is far from being a prime mover in the bombers decision to die, and I think Saddam was not the cause of the wave of bombings, which were caused by Palestinian anger and disappointment. I see Saudi Arabian dissidents like bin Laden as having vastly greater motive than anyone. Israel had a suicide bomber problem because of the failure of Camp David negotiations between Arafat and Barak for a final settlement having failed. The suicide bombings restarted after the negotiations while the election that Barak lost neared. Sharon probabally was grateful for the suicide bombing under Barak, but when they continued well into his premiership, not.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier
    Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, prior to the Camp David 2000 Summit with Yasser Arafat, vowed to build a separation barrier … .[42]

    In November 2000, during Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations in Washington, Prime Minister Ehud Barak approved financing of a 74 km (46 mi) fence between the Wadi Ara region and Latrun.[30][46] Not until 14 April 2002, the Cabinet of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon decided to implement the plan and establish a permanent barrier in the Seam Area.

    Sharon had been Prime Minister since 6 February 2001, Why would Sharon not have ordered a barrier built immediately he took power if he was so worried about the suicide bombings constituting a mortal danger to Israel’s existence as Ron Unz has suggested? In 2002 there were 47 Palestinian bombings and 238 deaths, it was by far the worst year ever. The invasion of Iraq started 19 March 2003. It wasn’t until 2004 that the annual deaths from such bombings went under 100 (just). The human and other assets needed for a professional False Flag 9/11 operation would not be the same ones as used on building a wall, with the necessary exception of constructing a small model of a WTC tower and doing a test on the structure with explosives.

    In addition to the motive alluded to above, bin Laden seems to me to have had the greatest means and opportunity He possessed a proven will to mount such attacks, and he headed his own tight knit organisation of men sworn to obey him as undisputed leader. Sharon was widely disliked by Israelis in government service, was seen as a loose cannon after his visit to the Temple Mount and he was an army not Mossad or even military intelligence man. Moreover, after six months in power he is going to order an insanely dangerous operation and all his subordinates including those that voted for Barak are going to obey without wondering if they will be know too much afterwards? It would have had to have been Barak that originated the plan for an Israeli 9/11 False Flag, with Sharon only told about it later.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  452. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    Yes maybe they were doing some kind of intel work in areas with Mosques, hence the Shea Memorandum maps are what one would expect given hijackers trying to stay below radar would go to blend in with the teeming masses of other Muslims, and they did they did blend in because there’s zero evidence any of the Israeli teams ever came anywhere near having had the right Arabs under surveillance. The Miami concentration was almost entirely the muscle hijackers who were there for only a brief time and not doing anything suspicious to pick up on. I suppose the muscle hijacker who was in New Jersey and had something to do with the finances (and a business next to a NJ M mosque connected to the WTC truck bomb) showed it was not difficult to find the relevant Muslims communities, but the hijackers were cocooned within those communities.

    https://nypost.com/2015/12/21/nj-police-captain-says-some-muslims-did-celebrate-on-911/

    Some Muslims in New Jersey did celebrate the 9/11 terror attacks during rooftop and street parties until they were broken up by the cops, a new report said Monday.

    Those Israelis strike me as being auxiliaries or irregulars. rather than surveillance teams or experts at penetrating security and running double agents. Every criminal who has dealt with the FBI are terrified by the level of well resourced surveillance they bring to bear. The Israeli teams in the US were completely in the dark. So you think those Beastie Boys idiots are better at investigation than the FBI and could know things the FBI never found out about? One of the hijacker pilots in San Diego (the real hub of the plot with three of the four hijacker pilots) had an FBI informant for a landlord.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  453. Sean is full of kosher,(toxic), bs as usual.The FBI has never made any effort to prosecute any Israelis implicated in 9/11 such as the dancing Mossad agents nor has it ever made any effort to spy on synagogues or entrap Jews in terrorist plots in the U.S.. But it has done this over and over again with Moslems including in the 1993 WTC bombing which would not even have taken place without FBI instigation.Also Israelis were in and around alleged 9/11 Al Qaeda terrorists even though they probably never showed up at Israeli ‘guarded’ Logan Airport that day.

    And Rupert Murdoch’s Zionist NY Post rag cited by Sean never reported on dancing Iseaelis any more than did the Jew York Times did so why is Sean expecting us to believe Moslems were celebrating in New Jersey just becauase the Post and Donald Trump says so ? And were any Moslems on the scene celebrating in advance with cameras ‘to document the event’ as the moving van Israelis were ? I seriouisly doubt it.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-fbis-history-of-supplying-live-explosives-to-terror-suspects/5331517

    Has the FBI ever presided over “sting operations” that were actually carried out? The answer is yes. The FBI in fact was presiding over the terrorists who carried out the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. The role of the FBI leading up to the deadly attack would most likely have gone unreported had an FBI informant not taped his conversations with FBI agents after growing suspicious during the uncover operation. The New York Times in their article, “Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast,” reported:

    • Replies: @Sean
  454. @Sean

    I didn’t ask you about the Shea Memorandum, I asked Wiz.

  455. Incitatus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    ‘conspiracies for profit celebrities’

    There are many. College dropout Alex Jones (without evidence) questioned Sandy Hook, led followers to hound (‘crisis actor’) victim families. A despicable for-profit carrion predator. Courageous conservative? Doubt it. Profit is his interest, controversy his honey. Very smart fellow:

    “According to a court testimony Jones delivered in 2014, InfoWars has revenues of over $20 million a year. In August 2017, Jones announced the launch of NewsWars.com, a site Jones said was intended to battle news that he considers to be fake news. Jones also operates the PrisonPlanet.com website.”

    “A 2017 piece for German magazine Der Spiegel by Veit Medick indicated that two-thirds of Jones’ funds derive from sales of a successful range of his own products. These products are marketed through the InfoWars website and through advertising spots on Jones’ show. They include dietary supplements, toothpaste, bulletproof vests and “brain pills,” which hold “an appeal for anyone who believes Armageddon is near”, according to Medick.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones

    Dietary supplements? Unregulated, untested by the FDA (thanks, former Senator Orrin Hatch). None know what’s in them, no published efficacy from clinical trials. $32 billion in US sales 2019. Any who’ve cared for a senior know how they’re targeted by spurious ‘memory enhancement’ peddlers who offer the vision of lost youth (and sign them up for a ‘monthly supply’ automatically charged to their credit cards every month).

    In Alex Jones case, the ‘snake-oil’ conspiracist actually also sells ‘snake-oil’ supplements plain-and-simple. Suppose there’s some integrity in that?

    “the age of Trump”

    Indeed. The Trump epoch! The age of poisonous (me-me-me) TV celebrities. DJT’s reported to watch hours every day. No better way to rot the brain. But, then, he’s a creature (a product) of TV and celebrity. It’s like Mothra checking in on latest reports of Godzilla every fifteen minutes.

    “Thinking along those lines I regard it as reprehensible that institutions which can afford it, or at least have low cost interns, don’t check the supposedly impressive footnoting and other sourcing in books like Stinnett’s Day of Deceit which may not deserve the praise given by nice trusting people on UR who declare themselves impressed.”

    One bright spot in recent years is the advent of many new historians [Beevor, Childers, Ullrich, Longerich, Weber, Stargardt, Wawro, Hett, etc.] abundant in principle quotes. I’m reading the last of Peter Longerich’s ‘Heinrich Himmler’ 748 page text, plus 199 pages of end-notes (pity Oxford can’t really manufacture a satisfactory binding, as pages seem to splay). I check end-notes. And compare text/notes with other historians. No expert, but it’s pretty simple, really.

    “nice trusting people on UR”

    Admire your insight, but differ with your assessment. UR posters most oft seem proof Circus King and Bridgeport CT Mayor PT Barnum was right:

    “There’s a sucker born every minute”

    Stay well, Wizard.

  456. Robert Mueller,John F Kennedy,9/11:

    https://www.madcowprod.com/2019/09/13/jeffrey-epsteins-linked-in-social-network/

    The original Plymouth Colony in Massachusetts was funded by a group called “The Merchant Adventurers.” They hired an experienced mercenary soldier to protect the colonists. He became the first Governor of Massachusetts. His name was Myles Standish……

    Many generations later one of his descendants, Ann Cabell Standish, will marry Robert Mueller, later appointed Special Prosecutor investigating Russian interference, and American collusion, in the 2016 election….

    Her grandfather is Charles Cabell, second in command at the CIA when John Kennedy is elected. Her grand uncle, Earle Cabell, is mayor of Dallas when Kennedy is assassinated there.

    In the aftermath of the Bay of Pigs, Cabell was fired. So was CIA honcho Allen Dulles, and hapless Richard Bissell, who runs Operation 40.

    Richard Bissell and Robert Mueller are cousins……

    He is named head of the FBI one week before the 9/11 attack. Afterwards 4000 FBI agents fan out, not to investigate, but to make sure the cover-up isn’t threatened.

    Loose lips sink ships.

    What Mueller didn’t find in his investigation of Russia and Donald Trump was a lot. The biggest thing he didn’t find ? Anything to do with the CIA…. – Daniel Hopsicker

  457. Sean says:
    @Tony Ryals

    https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/58a9166d290000fe16f2756c.png?ops=scalefit_820_noupscale

    El Sayyid Nosair, an Al Qaeda cell member who murdered Rabbi Meir Kahane (seen above) said on the night in 1990 he shot Kahane dead, two other men were with him one was Palestinian illegal immigrant Mohammed A. Salameh, who is now serving a sentence for the in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, a few. Salameh, the Palestinian illegal alien World Trade Center bomber had a mailbox at 2828 Kennedy Boulevard in Jersey City; the location of Sphinx Trading, a check cashing and mailbox store that was only four doors from the al-Salam mosque, of blind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahma. By merely using the same surveillance that caught John Gotti, the Jersey City’s Al Qaeda linked business Sphinx that had caught John Gotti the FBI could have been onto the 9/11 bombers

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-prince-of-jihad-is-dead-will-the-blind-sheikhs_b_58a8a6fde4b0b0e1e0e20ba7
    The second “dot” became known in 1994 after the feds compiled a list of 172 un-indicted co-conspirators in the “Day of Terror” case in which the Sheikh and eleven others were indicted for that plot to blow up the bridges and tunnels into Manhattan, the U.N. and 26 Federal Plaza which houses the FBI’s New York Office (NYO). […] Named on that list along with Osama bin Laden and Mustafa Shalabi was Waleed Abu al-Noor, co-incorporator of Sphinx Trading.
    Flashing forward to July of 2011 and the third “dot” — Khalid al-Midhar and Salem al-Hazmi, two of the hijackers who flew American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon, obtained the fake I.D.’s they used to board that flight at Sphinx Trading. Who did they get them from? None other than Mohamed El-Attriss, another Egyptian who was al-Noor’s partner in the incorporation of the check-cashing store.

    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
  458. @Sean

    I guess those Islamic terrorists must have been the gtreatest pilots in world aviation history.I’ve never heard of any professional pilot with the ego to claim he could repeat the great feat and many who have said hitting the Pentagon at that angle was impossible.

  459. Sean says:
    @Tony Ryals

    Maybe he was trying to make some point, but there is a saying ‘you could not do that if you tried’. The plane hitting the Pentagon was flown by Hani Hanjour who by 1999 was already a certificated commercial pilot, and so probably far better than any of the other three hijacker pilots on the basis of his experience, although Ziad Jarrah (on United Airlines Flight 93) was probably not all that bad.

    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
  460. @AnonStarter

    Thanks I do like it. I thought I had read it all and responded/attempted follow up but it seems I found other things in my life more pressing. What has happened as a result of that apparently good conscientious work? Any responses, even hostile?

    Interesting that it seems to trim the sensible truther case down to Mossad/Israel not behaving well towards its great indispensable ally. But just how far rogue elements were allowed to actually facilitate presumably remains speculative though critical. It doesn’t seem to do anything to close the really big gap in truther dreams, viz. proof of deliberate demolitions, whether strong or weak version, n’est-ce pas? [Weak version is that the towers just could not have collapsed as they did without demolition].

  461. Incitatus says:
    @AnonStarter

    “The analogy is a bit strained. Princip killed heads-of-state and his act garnered broad support among his countrymen. Crusius targeted random common folk, and, save by a very marginalized minority on the dark web, he was widely condemned by his countrymen.”

    What about Trump cheerleader, strip-club DJ, body-builder and Pizza delivery specialist Cesar Sayoc? Late sentenced to 20 years in prison for sending bombs to Barak Obama, Hillary Clinton, George Soros, Joe Biden, Robert DeNiro, Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Tom Steyer, John Brennan, Maxine Waters, Eric Holder, CNN, et. al. One person: a lot of bombs.

    What if Cesar’s bombs worked?

    No fan of his targets. But, really?

    Cesar believed (among other things) Trump’s favorite ‘fake news’ conspiracy:

    “There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame…”
    -DJ Trump 5:03 AM 29 Oct 2018

    The very ‘news’ DJT manipulated to leverage minority support to gain office?

    DJT was more candid in 2016:

    “And he [Trump] said, ‘You know why I do it [attack the press]? I do it to demean you all and discredit you all, so that when you write negative stories about me no one will believe you,’”
    – Lesley Stahl on Trump remarks, Trump Tower Jul 2016
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/388855-60-minutes-correspondent-trump-said-he-attacks-the-press-so-no-one

    Here’s the point. Assaulting the (always in our history blemished) fourth estate has cumulative corrosive effect on cultural institutions, on checks-and-balances. POTUS DJT gets though every day dissing others and the media. Very dangerous.

    “Compare Norman Finkelstein to Alan Dershowitz”

    Please! Must I?

    Bought/read Finkelstein’s ‘Holocaust Industry (cloth-bound) when first published. Still believe in him.

    Dershowitz? Are you kidding?

    “since 9/11 skeptics have now surpassed critical mass in America, that would make those who continue to accept the official account no longer “mainstream” in any meaningful sense.”

    Have no interest one way or the other, but doubt your statement. Odds are most Americans “accept the official account”, “critical mass” included. Most Architects and Engineers certainly do (99%+).

    Favor re-opening the 9/11 Commission hearings, deposing GW Bush, Cheney, Condi, Rummy, Pearl, Wolfowitz, Tenet, and others under oath. Why not?

    Issues: criminal incompetence for ignoring warnings (over a dozen CIA) before 9/11/01. Crimes against peace and conspiracy for aggressive war 2002-03. “Enhanced Interrogation” (torture), ‘Rendition (Nazi nacht-und-nebel), and so on.

    Your contest seems between “skeptics” and an un-enumerated “critical mass” about to overturn the conventional 9/11 narrative. God bless. Tell us more.

  462. @Sean

    And so what was his point,that he didn’t like auditers snooping around who might find the money trail of Rabbi Dov Zakheim’s pre 9/11 $2 trillion plus looting of the Pentagon ?

    • Replies: @Sean
  463. dov zakheim 9/11 mastermind and like Jeffrey Epstein a member of CFR

  464. @Tony Ryals

    You’ll have to excuse Sean. In his world, something is impossible only if it doesn’t dovetail with the 9/11 commission findings.

    Otherwise, it’s entirely feasible.

  465. @Tony Ryals

    Well I know some Cathay Pacific pilots that I play tennis with and not one has suggested that the hijackers couldn’t have done it. I don’t believe your bluster and I have an additional reason. Who can say that “that angle” wasn’t an accident – as you might expect from pilits who didn’t have the highest expertise. Anyway, tell us about “that angle” and its significance with all your pub gossip expertise.

    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
  466. For ‘what it is worth’?
    “A total of 2,071 occupants of the World Trade Center died on September 11, among the 2,749 victims of the WTC attacks. According to an article in the October 11, 2001, Wall Street Journal, roughly 1,700 people had listed the religion of a person missing in the WTC attacks; approximately 10% were Jewish. A later article, in the September 5, 2002, Jewish Week, stated, “based on the list of names, biographical information compiled by The New York Times, and information from records at the Medical Examiner’s Office, there were at least 400 victims either confirmed or strongly believed to be Jewish.” This would be approximately 15% of the total victims of the WTC attacks. A partial list of 390 Cantor Fitzgerald employees who died (out of 658 in the company) lists 49 Jewish memorial services, which is between 12% and 13%.
    This 10-15% estimate of Jewish fatalities tracks closely with the percentage of Jews living in the New York area. According to the 2002 American Jewish Year Book, 9% of the population of New York State, where 64% of the WTC victims lived, is Jewish. A 2002 study estimated that New York City’s population was 12% Jewish. Forty-three percent of the WTC victims lived in New York City. Thus, the number of Jewish victims correlates very closely with the number of Jewish residents in New York. If 4,000 Jews had not reported for work on September 11, the number of Jewish victims would have been much lower than 10-15%.”
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/israelis-absent-911/
    “ . . . out of the 4000 Israelis believed to have worked in and around the WTC and the Pentagon only FIVE died. 5/4000 Israelis. Statistically, with no forewarning about 10% (ie 400 of 4000) would have died; a toll as low as 200-300/4000 would not convincingly indicate foreknowledge. But only FIVE Israelis died and two of the five were aboard the allegedly hijacked flights; thus only three Israelis died in the WTC itself on 9/11. NB – this applies to Israeli nationals, NOT American Jews. Many Jews died in the WTC on 9/11.”
    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it

  467. @Sean

    You disappoint me in getting the logic of what I was referring to wrong. My point I repeat – please take note – was that the truthers need demolition to get their case off the ground – not that it would prove their case. True, they might theoretically find evidence that Israel was very actively assisting the Arab plotters, but so far that looks like a dud.

    Again, all I suggested was that, after nin Laden, the leader with most to gain from his point of view was the Israeli PM whom I correctly named as Ariel Sharon without remembering those dates you have now supplied. Again, I am not mounting a case for a false flag Israeli operation so I can still say that Ariel Sharon, if he heard reports that Mossad was giving a little quiet support to terrorists who were going to help get the US more militarily involved in the ME and Muslim world, would have been delighted as long as they didn’t get caught.

    Israel’s worry about Iran and the inability to link Saddam Hussein to 9/11 are points worth making but ignore the motive that Israel had and still has to Balkanise the ME. Pretty well any debilitating mess suited it – even if one can imagine big arguments about detail in the Israeli PM’s inner circle (I was about to write “Cabinet” but I doubt they would all be let in on such security matters).

  468. @AnonStarter

    That threw me a bit before I found that I had indeed replied as I though #477. And in the course of recovering my memory of it I came across this:

    A 13-point summary of the findings from the Shea Memorandum on the dancing Israelis on 9/11 from conspiracy

    I don’t think you are saying it proves anything much, but I agree that I would, if American, want to see it properly followed up and answered honestly.

  469. Sean says:
    @Tony Ryals

    No Jew has as high an opinion of Jewish abilities as you do. They are not ten feet tall.

  470. @Tony Ryals

    I am a skeptic that OBL and Al Qaida did 911, but still the Houthis must be the greatest terrorist or rebel, or whatever you want to call them, outfit out there in history: in one single attack they knocked out 50% of the economy of one of the richest countries in the world. Now that’s something.

  471. RonaldB says:

    Seems to me the article needs more drastic revision. It includes the information that the Israelis tried twice to warn the US about the impending 9/11 attack, yet a major part of the article is an analysis of why the Israelis didn’t warn the US about the 9/11 attacks.

  472. @Wizard of Oz

    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/amidst-growing-world-doubts-about-911-career-army-officer-takes-bush-administration-officials-to-court-april-5th-represented-by-the-center-for-911-justice-118495499.html

    NEW YORK, March 23, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ —

    Top Secret Military Specialist April Gallop saw disturbing things up close that have not been reported in the media.

    On the morning of September 11, 2001, she was ordered by her supervisor to go directly to work at the Pentagon, before dropping off her ten-week-old son Elisha at day care.

    Amazingly, the infant was given immediate security clearance upon arrival.

    The instant Gallop turned on her computer an enormous explosion blew her out of her chair, knocking her momentarily unconscious.

    Escaping through the hole reportedly made by Flight 77, she saw no signs of an aircraft – no seats, luggage, metal, or human remains. Her watch (and other clocks nearby) had stopped at 9:30-9:31 a.m., seven minutes before the Pentagon was allegedly struck at 9:38 a.m.

    The 9/11 Commission reported that “by no later than 9:18 a.m., FAA centers in Indianapolis, Cleveland, and Washington were aware that Flight 77 was missing and that two aircraft had struck the World Trade Center.”

    Why then were there no anti-aircraft defenses, Gallop asks, or alarm warnings inside the Pentagon?

    Gallop was briefed by officials not to tell her story in public; she also received an email from a Fox News reporter who had been told by the Pentagon not to interview her.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  473. April Gallup, 9/11 Pentagon Eyewitness – Explosives at Pentagon

    • Replies: @james charles
  474. @Tony Ryals

    Who and what was that a reply to? I have wasted a lot of time in my life. I suppose I should thank you for giving me reason never to waste my time on PRnewswire (whose latest lead item is about Victoria’s Secret and seems to advertise itsel as source of stuff for wannabe journalists).

    At least you could have told us about the follow up from this 2011 case which, I guess, was thrown out of court at first instance and on appeal (did you notice it was in an appeal court as reported in that shoddy piece?).

  475. @Anon

    Thanks so much for the Rebekah Roth interview.She’s an amazing woman just as is April Gallop who was almost murdered along with her baby while working in the Pentagon on September 11,2001 and lived to tell the tale but CNN and Fox wouldn’t report it,of course. And April Gallop walked out of that hole in the Pentagon,something few people experienced,and she saw no sign of any plane or parts of a plane whatsover.

    Wizzard of Odd and Sean-stein should get together and suck each others private parts rather than hanging out here and lieing unendingy.

    • Replies: @Sean
  476. @Wizard of Oz

    9/11: Case solved?

    “How Aluminum May Have Collapsed the Twin Towers”

  477. @james charles

    Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth : “Smithsonian TV Channel pushes absurd collapse scenario ” .
    When it comes to 9/11 you can’t even trust the Smithsonian to get it right .

  478. Sean says:
    @Tony Ryals

    Well said! I think you have made a very telling point about the 9/11 strikes, not only was UA Flight 93 aimed for the US Capitol Building, this plane hit the Pentagon (and killed a General).

    For forty years there was a law that American oil could not be exported..

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/holman-jenkins-a-world-remade-by-fracking-1427842374 (2015)

    If not for fracking, oil would probably be $200 a barrel and gasoline $6.50 in the U.S. Western economies would likely be in free fall. The grudging U.S. recovery would be in retreat. The modest and possibly illusory green shoots seen in Europe, largely a function of cheap oil and a strong dollar, would wither. …. Vladimir Putin would be raking in vaster bucks, rather than vastly diminished bucks, for his oil. Europe and the U.S., feeling broke and bedraggled, would be even less eager for confrontation.

    Yemen sits at the narrow Bab el-Mandeb chokepoint through which 3.8 million barrels a day flow from Saudi Arabia’s Red Sea terminals and elsewhere to the world. Yemen’s upheaval comes at the hands of Houthi tribalists backed by Iran, whose military already threatens another key Mideast oil chokepoint, at the exit of the Persian Gulf.

    Maybe with the benefit of hindsight those who opposed the invasion of Iraq were right. However, at the time it seemed imperative to protect the Saud family dictatorship. Bush was not to know that the low interest rates in the aftermath 0f the 2008 financial crisis would create an insane fracking boom. In 2015 :

    Fracking overnight has relieved Saudi Arabia of its swing-producer dominance. Fracking overnight has relegated the Middle East to a sideshow, albeit a still-important sideshow, in the world economy

    . Saudi Arabia cannot defend itself from the Iranians and putting an American army in Saudi Arabia is a non starter given the internal unrest it provoked the last time(between the Kuwait war and the invasion of Iraq and 2003). Saudi Arabia could end up dominated by by its Shia minority like the Alawites in Syria, that is Iran’s ultimate objective.

    The disruption in the Gulf that Iran could cause if attacked is supposedly deterring any war on Iran to save Saudi Arabia. I disagree. The Saudi regieme cannot survive another American occupation, the Middle East oil flow is a lot less important now. Iran says it is non aggressive then they kill hundreds of US soldiers in Iraq by supplying shaped charges and blowing things drones, all the while lying through their about it. Bribing them to stop their nuke problem is no solution. We cannot trust Iran with limpet mines let alone with a nuclear weapon so bribing them to stop their nuke problem thereby giving them more resources to attack Saudi Arabia is no solution That have already demonstrated they cannot be trusted of reasoned and will have to be stopped with so lets do what Bush did in Iraq and save Saudi Arabia. Sooner or later will have to be done anyway . https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/just-how-many-nuclear-facilities-iran-hiding-82101

    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
  479. @Sean

    Huh ? What was the name of this General killed at the Pentagon on 9/11 ? General Stubblebine denied that a plane hit the Pentagon and April Gallop and her baby lived to walk out of the holle allegedly made by flight 77 without seeing any sign or trace of airplane wreckage of any knid.

    As for oil and Iraq – Saddam Hussein, besides allowing WMD inspectors to search for the alleged WMDs every day into perpetuity, offered to guatentee U.S. supplies of Iraqi oil but because of Israeli and Jewish Zionist control of the U.S. government W Bush did not take Saddam up on the offer and instead sacrificed thousands of American soldiers to overthrow and slaughter innocent civilians including the minority Christian Aramaic speaking population that Saddam protected.
    In effect Saddam and even Iran was a much better ally to and for the U.S. than Israel or Saudi Arabia.

    The only result of our invasion and slaughter is that now Russia is drilling and producing oil in Iraq and China in Iran.And while we continue to support and pay for the terrorist state of Israel, Putin proudly refers to it as a Russian entity.

    Putin: Israel is a ‘Russian-speaking country’
    JNS.org-Sep 20, 2019
    (September 20, 2019 / JNS) Russian President Vladimir Putin called Israel a Russian-speaking country and talking about ties between the two countries on ..

    https://www.twf.org/News/Y2010/0911-Pentagon.html
    Eyewitnesses, Pentagon Transcripts, Official Records Refute ‘The 9/11 Commission Report’
    Available evidence does not support the claim that AA Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on September 11, 2001

    Just minutes after the alleged attack, standing in front of the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, Jamie McIntyre, CNN’s senior Pentagon correspondent since November 1992, reported to Judy Woodruff: “From my close up inspection there’s no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. . . . . The only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you could pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage — nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon…

    Bob Pugh, freelance photographer, who filmed the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, said in his videotaped account, “I’m looking for wreckage, . . . I can’t see anything that I recognize. I can’t see the tail, I can’t see the wheel, I can’t see the engine. There’s no chairs, there’s no luggage there’s no logo. . .

    Lt. Robert Medairos, Arlington County Police — watch commander for the day, who stated (ABC 7, Washington, D.C. September 13, 2001, 3:25 PM), “They said it was a plane, and I didn’t see any pieces of any plane, and I couldn’t believe a plane hit the building.”

    Lt Col Karen Kwiatowski, who from her fifth-floor, B-ring office at the Pentagon, witnessed “an unforgettable fireball, 20 to 30 feet in diameter” confirms McIntyre’s account.

    Writing in “9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out,” Kwiatowski noted, “a strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the secretary of defense, who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a ‘missile’.” (DoD News Transcript, October 12, 2001)…

    Pentagon employee April Gallop, whose “desk was roughly 40 feet from the point where the plane allegedly hit the outside wall” stated in a sworn complaint (before the U.S. District Court Southern District of New York): “As she sat down to work there was an explosion, then another; walls collapsed and the ceiling fell in. Hit in the head, she was able to grab the baby and make her way towards the daylight showing through a blasted opening in the outside wall. There was no airplane wreckage and no burning airplane fuel anywhere; only rubble and dust.”

    The case was dismissed without trial. The Federal Judge ruled that: “Even assuming the factual allegations of the complaint are true, Gallop’s claims are not plausible.”

    Barbara Honegger, military affairs journalist, reported in her personal capacity that a pilot sent by Gen Larry Arnold (NORAD) “reported back that there was no evidence that a plane had hit the building.” She added, “Multiple standard-issue, battery-operated wall clocks . . . stopped between 9:31 and 9:32-1/2 on September 11” — a few minutes before Flight 77 that is alleged to have struck the Pentagon at 9:37:46.

    The Pentagon appears to have “resolved” the time discrepancy. At the Pentagon Memorial, they just did away with the time and replaced it with blank tiles.

    Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) — former Commanding General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, and head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence — stated in a video interview, “I don’t know exactly what hit it, but I do know, from the photographs that I have analyzed and looked at very, very carefully, it was not an airplane.”

    Major Douglas Rokke, U.S. Army (ret) adds: “No aircraft hit the Pentagon. Totally impossible! You couldn’t make the turns with a 757. You couldn’t fly it in over the highway. You couldn’t fly it over the light poles. You couldn’t even get it that close to the ground because of turbulence…….

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Sean
  480. @james charles

    Has anyone even proven an aluminum airplane can crash through steel without a single bit of it falling to the ground below ?And under those extreme conditions how could a Saudi terrorist’s passport survive and fly out the plane wreckage from the skyscaper and fall to the ground below to be miraculously discovered in pristine condition by Rudolph Giuliani’s corrupt Taser stock fraud pùmp and dump money laundering Police Inspector Bernie Kerrick ? You guys are too funny….
    No wonder we’re in so much trouble.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  481. WTC: Can 767 Aluminum Wing Cut 14’Steel? Crash Test Shows ..

    911 – The Inconvenient Facts‬

    • Replies: @anonymous
  482. @Tony Ryals

    You say or imply that
    1. The passport was in “pristine condition”

    2. Nothing else belonging to passengers or pilots that they would have had on their persons or near them was found

    3. Nothing from the planes’ fuselage, engines, wings or control services was observed in the rubble

    Can you please qualify yourself as expert enough to be taken serously by giving solid reliable sources for these propositions?

  483. anonymous[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tony Ryals

    OMG! Loony Toons. Do you get all your information on important public matters from comic books and cartoons?

    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
  484. anonymous[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tony Ryals

    One strike and you’re out. Compare your reference to Stubblebine with this – for honest inquirers:

    Stubblebine was convinced of the reality of a wide variety of psychic phenomena. He required that all of his battalion commanders learn how to bend spoons in the manner of celebrity psychic Uri Geller, and he himself attempted several psychic feats, in addition to walking through walls, such as levitation and dispersing distant clouds with his mind. Stubblebine was a key leader in the U.S. military invasion of Grenada (1983) and was, according to a report published by the Daily Mail, “at the heart of America’s military machine” at that time. After some controversy involving the experiments with psychic phenomena, Stubblebine took “early retirement” from the Army in 1984. In addition to alleged security violations from uncleared civilian psychics working in Sensitive Compartmented…..

    Yeah, his splendid name had me doing a search on him….

  485. Sean says:
    @Tony Ryals

    Okay it wasn’t a plane.

    And April Gallop walked out of that hole in the Pentagon

    They still attacked the Pentagon, with an explosion and a 50 foot fireball and dead people. Why on Earth would a foreign false flag do that? The Pentagon take on oath to defend the Constitution, can throw a bit of muscle if they believe that is called for (Thinking the unthinkable: could there be a military coup in the US?) and if they in particular are attacked they are surely going to be more inquisitive than otherwise.

    Thus, Bin Laden is a more likely culprit for 9/11 than Israel or Big Oil/ military industrial complex or the NSA/ CIA because those latter two would not dare hit the Pentagon, which has the Defence Intelligence Agency , which is headed by a military officer. The pentagon controls special forces inside the US like the Delta force. They have whole light infantry divisions like the handily placed Mountain division alluded to in the above link. Please don’t tell me the Pentagon do not have the power to take over, they most certainly do and would use it if they were given good reason to use that power they would.

    The don’t have the guts, these These are the same folks who would launch a nuclear first strike on Russia if so ordered even though that would be certain to result in their death. And they could in certain circumstances do it without higher orders (Dems reintroduce bill to prevent nuclear first strike without congressional approval). The Oath Of Allegiance says defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Once they have identified an enemy that gives them all the authorisation they need. Indeed it would be a duty to destroy alien government doing such an attack. A home grown cabal in on 9/11 would have to fear immediate arrest, detention without trial and torture as the result of attacking the Pentagon. Blowing up their Armed Forced head office is the mark of a false flag? I think not.

  486. @Wizard of Oz

    First tell me the name of the general who died in the Pentagon on 9/11.You can cheat and ask your butt buddy Sean-stein to give you the answer.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Sean
  487. @anonymous

    The only cartoon I saw in the video was the U.S. government’s ‘computer of simulation’ of a plane cutting through the WTC ,like it was butter.The first part showing a real plane getting its wing clipped by a wooden telephone pole was no cartoon at all.

    While you did not come close to refuting Stubblebine’s claim regarding the Pentagon not being hit that day you still have a number of other first hand witnesses to try and make look sillier than yourself.

    And don’t forget that it has already been documented that the Pentagon 9/11 cover up goon squad went out of its way to contact Fox News,et.al. to make sure that witnesses such as April Gallop, who walked out of the Pentagon through the hole after the explosions with her baby, also saw no evidence whatsoever of the airplane or its parts and her desk was only forty feet from the event.
    Note also that the Pentagon cover up team also met with April Gallop in nher hospital bed to tell her what she should and should not say and we can presume she was not the only Pentagon witness who was pressured to stand by the Pentagon goon squads ‘ ‘official story’ that a plane crashed into the building..

    The Pentagon goon squad You might also go back and review the time discepency between the Pentagon clocks and the time in which the event or plane crasjh was supposed to occiur.Other than that you are an idiot ashamed to put your name where your mouth is and I will no longer bother myself with a reply.

  488. @Tony Ryals

    Well that’s not even a good way of giving yourself time to think about how not to make a fool of yourself. It took me no more than 10 seconds to find and copy this:

    Timothy Joseph “Tim” Maude (November 18, 1947 – September 11, 2001) was a United States Army officer who was killed in the September 11 attacks at The Pentagon.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  489. Sean says:
    @Tony Ryals

    False flaggot, you dare say those things from behind a pseudonym, which is why I respect you as much as I do.

    You still have not answered me about why the Pentagon could not get annoyed, round up some conspirators, take them in for some slow torture and roll the whole thing up, Do they need to wait for your fellow humourist Sarah Silverman to call for the military overthrow of the US government? She at least used her real name Twitter account, so I suppose someone might take her seriously. Unlike you. That is why they dare allow allegations about identified people like you make to be made, because everyone knows you are playing a futile game of whiling away the time with a comedic monologue. Upset at not getting comment 500? Planning at being here for the 1000th?

  490. @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard,

    Not quite pristine if this is what they found:

    re: Pentagon – if nothing was found, it then indicates a planted bomb inside the Pentagon. Even a missile would leave some evidence that it was a projectile. Are there any images to indicate it was a plane or a missile? If it was a bomb coordinated with WTC then it indicates who was behind it, the Pentagon most likely, and they were the ones that led the war that followed.

  491. @Wizard of Oz

    As to the failure of pilots to send the emergency code, if it did apply to all four planes that is, just barely, supportive of some conspiracy. But still well within the bounds of human fallibility. When was the code last even drawn to their attention as something they would almost certainly have to look up? Say two years before.

    All airline pilots know by heart the three transponder codes 7700, 7600 as well as 7500 for “unlawful interference”. I, even almost 25 years since I last flew an airliner remember 7700 for emergency, 7600 for loss of communications as well as 7500. They also know to not select 7500 on the way to the more frequently(but still extremely infrequent) 7700. Most pilots will go an entire career and never once use any of the three.

  492. @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard,

    The Saudis recently displayed the wreckage of some missiles and drones fired at their refinery:

    https://www.thenational.ae/image/policy:1.911972:1568821320/image/071f4fccf8864e5ba3eee40e172e5ca6-071f4fccf8864e5ba3eee40e172e5ca6-861979e54919414b8dec3d216a3e11a2-d1afc.jpg?$p=4f65ba9&w=1136&$w=ec52ab9

    Considering a refinery is full of fuel, unlike WTC or the Pentagon, we’d expect to see a lot more wreckage of the planes and or missiles from 911. So where are the displays? It seems that Saudis are more competent at salvaging wreckage from a burning refinery than US authorities from their buildings. I’d have thought they’d have picked up all the bits and pieces of the aircraft and put them together in some hangar as is common procedure during investigations following air crashes. Don’t you find that strange?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  493. @Commentator Mike

    Not strange, just, with low priority, worth asking the question. I guess the answere from air accident investigators would be that an aircraft which has blown up hundreds of feet up in a steel and concrete office building which then collapses in shreds all round it creates a task which might have taken a well equipped large team six months of sifting with complete control of the site.

  494. @Tony Ryals

    “9/11 CNN Pentagon Report – NO PLANE – Only Aired Once
    00:00 actually was bob franken with and
    00:01 eyewitness who said it appeared that
    00:03 that Boeing 757 the American jet
    00:06 American Airlines jet landed short of
    00:09 the Pentagon can you give us any better
    00:12 idea of how much of the plane actually
    00:13 impacted the building you know it might
    00:16 have appeared that way but from my
    00:18 close-up inspection there’s no evidence
    00:20 of a plane having crashed anywhere near
    00:22 the Pentagon the only site is the actual
    00:26 side of the building that’s crashed in
    00:27 and as I said the only pieces left
    00:30 that you can see are small enough that
    00:32 you could pick up in your hand there are
    00:34 no large tail sections wing sections a
    00:37 fuselage nothing like that anywhere
    00:39 around which would indicate that the
    00:41 entire plane crashed into the side of
    00:43 the Pentagon and then caused the side to
    00:46 collapse now even though if you look at
    00:47 the pictures of the Pentagon you see
    00:49 that the floors have all collapsed that
    00:51 didn’t happen immediately
    00:52 it wasn’t until almost about 45 minutes
    00:55 later that the structure was weakened “

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  495. @james charles

    The first on-site report is always the best information on any “news stories”. The cover-up squad hasn’t had a chance to do their work yet.

    All after the fact “analysis” is highly suspect–somebody usually has an agenda, or as they say in the news biz, “angle”.

  496. On September 11, 2001 I watched video of planes hit the North and South towers of the World Trade Center, for months and years afterwards I watched the same videos repeatedly shown time and time again on various TV channels . I then heard about the demolition of building #7 , at first I didn’t believe that it had been demolished by pre-planted explosives , I was a victim of cognitive dissonance . I then heard about “no planes ” , at first I could not believe that the Twin towers had not been hit by planes as I had seen the videos many times , I had been brainwashed by the mainstream media . Even after reading about the “no planes” theory of 9/11 it took me a while to understand that what I watched on September 11, 2001 was a scripted “Hollywood ” type production using computer generated images and crisis actors like the “Harley Guy”. Try convincing your friend , neighbor or member of your family that what they saw on 9/11 was a scripted ,false flag , staged deception using CGI’s , before the argument gets too intense ask them to go to September Clues or a similar forum and then resume the discussion , perhaps they can overcome their mental discomfort . I now believe that the perps used a similar MO at the Pentagon , no plane , crisis actors and pre-planted explosives .

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