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Week Nine of the Russian Intervention in Syria: The Empire Strikes Back

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Chart of SU-24M Flight Path Released by Russian Ministry of Defense.  Credit: Wikimedia Commons
Chart of SU-24M Flight Path Released by Russian Ministry of Defense. Credit: Wikimedia Commons

Considering the remarkable success of the Russian intervention in Syria, at least so far, it should not have come as a surprise that the AngloZionist Empire would strike back. The only question was how and when. We now know the answer to that question.

On November 24th the Turkish Airforce did something absolutely unprecedented in recent history: it deliberately shot down another country’s military aircraft even though it was absolutely obvious that this aircraft presented no threat whatsoever to Turkey or the Turkish people. The Russian Internet is full of more or less official leaks about how this was done. According to these versions, the Turks maintained 12 F-16 on patrol along the border ready to attack, they were guided by AWACS aircraft and “covered” by USAF F-15s in case of an immediate Russian counter-attack. Maybe. Maybe not. But this hardly matters because what is absolutely undeniable is that the USA and NATO immediatley took “ownership” of this attack by giving their full support to Turkey. NATO went as far as to declare that it would send aircraft and ships to protect Turkey as if it had been Russia which had attacked Turkey. As for the USA, not only did it fully back Turkey, it now also categorically denies that there is any evidence that Turkey is purchasing Daesh oil. Finally, as was to be expected, the USA is now sending The Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group into the eastern Mediterranean, officially to strike Daesh but, in reality, to back Turkey and threaten Russia. Even the Germans are now sending their own aircraft, but with the specific orders not to share any info with the Russians.

So what is really going on here?

Simple: the Empire correctly identified the weakness of the Russian force in Syria, and it decided to use Turkey to provide itself an element of plausible deniability. This attack is probably only the first step of a much larger campaign to “push back” Russia from the Turkish border. The next step, apparently, includes the dispatching of western forces into Syria, initially only as ‘advisors’, but eventually as special forces and forward air controllers. The US and Turkish Air Forces will play the primary role here, with assorted Germans and UK aircraft providing enough diversity to speak of an “international coalition”. As for the French, stuck between their Russian counterparts and their NATO “allies”, they will remain as irrelevant as ever: Hollande caved in, again (what else?). Eventually, NATO will create a de-facto safe heaven for its “moderate terrorists” in northern Syria and use it as a base to direct an attack on Raqqa. Since any such intervention will be completely illegal, the argument of the need to defend the Turkmen minority will be used, R2P and all. The creation of a NATO-protected safe heaven for “moderate terrorists” could provide the first step for breaking up Syria into several smaller statelets.

If that is really the plan, then the shooting down of the SU-24 sends a powerful message to Russia: we are ready to risk a war to push you back – are you ready to go to war? The painful answer will be No, Russia is not prepared to wage a war against the entire Empire over Syria, simply because she does not have the capabilities to do so.

As I have already mentioned many times now, Syria is beyond the Russian power projection capability (roughly 1000km), especially if that power projection has to be executed through hostile territory (which Turkey most definitely is). So far, the Russians have succeeded, brilliantly, in organizing and supporting their small force in Syria, but this in no way indicates a Russian capability to support a major air operation over Syria or, even less so, a ground operation. The fact is that the Russian intervention in Syria was always a risky and difficult one, and it did not take the Empire much time to capitalize on this. I get a lot of flak from flag-wavers and “hurrah patriots” for saying this, but the fact is that Russia cannot ‘protect’ Syria from the US, NATO or even CENCTOM. At least not in purely military terms. This does not mean that Russia does not have retaliatory options. Russia has already engaged in the following:

ORDER IT NOW

Economic sanctions: Russia has declared a number of sanctions against Turkey, including the freezing of the Turkish Stream project. Furthermore, Russian tourism in Turkey – a huge source of revenue – is most likely to dwindle down to a tiny fraction of what it used to be: Russians will not be banned from going to Turkey, but no tours or packages will be offered by Russian travel agencies. Some Turkish goods will be banned in Russia, and Turks will not be invited to bid for various types of contracts. All in all, these sanctions will hurt Turkey, but not in a major way.

Political sanctions: here Russia will use one of her most terrifying weapons: the truth. The Russian military presented a devastating series of photos and videos shot by Russian air and space assets proving that Turkey does, indeed, purchase oil from Daesh. What was especially shocking about this evidence is that it showed the truly immense scale of the smuggling: one photo showed 1,722 oil trucks in in Deir Ez-Zor region while another one showed 8,500 oil tankers are used by Daesh to transport up 200,000 barrels of oil. What these figures mean is that not only is this smuggling organized at the level of the Turkish state, but it is also absolutely obvious that the USA knows everything about it.

Predictably, the western media made no mention of the actual evidence, it only spoke of “images the Russians claim to show”, but the damage is still done, especially in the long term. Now everybody with a modicum of intelligence knows that Erdogan is a lying crook. More importantly, it has now become undeniable that Turkey is not only an ally, but a patron and sponsor of Daesh. Finally, in the light of this evidence, it also becomes rather obvious why Turkey decided to shoot down the Russian SU-24: because the Russians were bombing the Daesh to Turkey smuggling routes.

The final blow to the prestige and credibility of Erdogan and Turkey came from Vladimir Putin himself who, in his annual address to the Parliament said:

We know who are stuffing pockets in Turkey and letting terrorists prosper from the sale of oil they stole in Syria. The terrorists are using these receipts to recruit mercenaries, buy weapons and plan inhuman terrorist attacks against Russian citizens and against people in France, Lebanon, Mali and other states. We remember that the militants who operated in the North Caucasus in the 1990s and 2000s found refuge and received moral and material assistance in Turkey. We still find them there.

Meanwhile, the Turkish people are kind, hardworking and talented. We have many good and reliable friends in Turkey. Allow me to emphasize that they should know that we do not equate them with the certain part of the current ruling establishment that is directly responsible for the deaths of our servicemen in Syria.

We will never forget their collusion with terrorists. We have always deemed betrayal the worst and most shameful thing to do, and that will never change. I would like them to remember this – those in Turkey who shot our pilots in the back, those hypocrites who tried to justify their actions and cover up for terrorists.

I don’t even understand why they did it. Any issues they might have had, any problems, any disagreements we knew nothing about could have been settled in a different way. Plus, we were ready to cooperate with Turkey on all the most sensitive issues it had; we were willing to go further, where its allies refused to go. Allah only knows, I suppose, why they did it. And probably, Allah has decided to punish the ruling clique in Turkey by taking their mind and reason.

But, if they expected a nervous or hysterical reaction from us, if they wanted to see us become a danger to ourselves as much as to the world, they won’t get it. They won’t get any response meant for show or even for immediate political gain. They won’t get it.

Our actions will always be guided primarily by responsibility – to ourselves, to our country, to our people. We are not going to rattle the sabre. But, if someone thinks they can commit a heinous war crime, kill our people and get away with it, suffering nothing but a ban on tomato imports, or a few restrictions in construction or other industries, they’re delusional. We’ll remind them of what they did, more than once. They’ll regret it. We know what to do.

Of course, in a society thoroughly habituated to lying, dishonesty and hypocrisy, these are “only” words, and they shall be ignored. But in the Middle-East and the rest of the world, these are powerful words which the Turks will have a very hard time “washing off” from their reputation.

Military measures: these are limited, of course, but not irrelevant. First, Russia has now admitted that S-400 are now in Syria (I suspect they were there all along). Second, Russia has began building a 2nd air base, this time in Shaayrat, in central Syria. If this base is indeed built, then bringing in a few Russian AWACS and/or MiG-31s would make sense. Third, Russia will now use more modern SU-34s equipped with advanced air-to-air missiles in northern Syria and Russian strike aircraft will now be escorted by dedicated SU-30SM fighters. This combination of measures will make it much harder for the Turks to repeat such an attack, but I personally doubt that they have any such intentions, at least not in the immediate future.

Evaluation:

In order to fully understand what is happening now we need to look at the bigger picture. The first major consequence of the shooting down of the Russian SU-24 is that NATO has now become an impunity alliance. Now that the precedent has been set by Turkey’s act of war against Russia, because that is what this shooting down undeniably was, any NATO member can now do the same thing while feeling protected by the alliance. If tomorrow, say, the Latvians decide to strafe a Russian Navy ship in the Baltic Sea or if the Poles shoot down a Russian aircraft over Kaliningrad, they will immediately get the ‘protection’ of NATO just like Turkey now did: the USA will fully endorse the Latvian/Polish version of the events, the Secretary General of NATO will offer to dispatch more forces to Latvia/Poland to “protect” these countries from any “threat” from “the east” and the world’s corporate media will turn a blind eye to any evidence of Latvian/Polish aggression. This is an extremely dangerous development as it gives a strong incentive to any small country to deal with its inferiority complex by showing its “courage” and “determination” to challenge Russia even if, of course, this is done by hiding behind NATO’s back.

NATO is also deliberately escalating its war on Russia by admitting Montenegro into the Alliance and by re-starting talks about admitting Georgia. In a purely military sense, the incorporation of Montenegro into NATO makes no difference whatsoever, but in political terms this is yet another way for the West to thumb its nose at Russia and say “see, we will even incorporate your historical allies into our Empire and there is nothing you can do about it”. As for Georgia, the main purpose behind the discussion of its incorporation into NATO is to vindicate the “Saakashvili line”, i.e. to reward aggression towards Russia. Here again, there is nothing Russia can do.

We thus are facing an extremely dangerous situation:

  • The Russian forces in Syria are comparatively weak and isolated
  • Turkey can, and will, continue its provocations under the cover of NATO
  • The West is now preparing an (illegal) intervention inside Syria
  • The western intervention will be made against Syria and Russia
  • NATO politicians now have an easy way to score “patriotic” points by provoking Russia

If we strip all the NATO verbiage about “defending our members” what is happening now is that the Empire has now apparently decided that going down the road to war is safe because Russia will not dare to “start” a war. In other words, this is a game of chicken in which one side dares the other to do something about it. This is exactly what Putin was referring to when he said:

If they expected a nervous or hysterical reaction from us, if they wanted to see us become a danger to ourselves as much as to the world, they won’t get it. They won’t get any response meant for show or even for immediate political gain. They won’t get it. Our actions will always be guided primarily by responsibility – to ourselves, to our country, to our people

What the imperial deep state is missing is the fact that Russia might not have a choice but to confront the Empire. Yes, the Russians do not want war, but the problem here is that, considering the absolutely reckless arrogance and imperial hubris of the western elites, every Russian effort to avoid war is interpreted by the western deep state as a sign of weakness. In other words, by acting responsibly the Russians are now providing an incentive for the West to act even more irresponsibly. This is a very, very, dangerous dynamic which the Kremlin will have to deal with. Putin, apparently, does have something in mind, at least this is how I understand his warning:

But, if someone thinks they can commit a heinous war crime, kill our people and get away with it, suffering nothing but a ban on tomato imports, or a few restrictions in construction or other industries, they’re delusional. We’ll remind them of what they did, more than once. They’ll regret it. We know what to do.

I have no idea as to what he might be referring to, but I am confident that this is not some empty bluster: this was not a threat to Russia’s enemies, but a promise to the Russian people. I sure hope that there is a plan because right now we are on a collision course leading to war. In conclusion, here is a short quote by Putin western leaders might want to ponder:

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: NATO, Russia, Syria, Turkey 

185 Comments to "Week Nine of the Russian Intervention in Syria: The Empire Strikes Back"

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  1. I am glad that someone has finally figured out why Russia cannot back down.
    This, it seems to me, is the point, although, unfortunately, no one in Washington bothers to think about these things.

    Yes, the situation is impossible for Russia, but, yes, Russia will fight.

    Is it fair to say that the future of the world rests in the hands of Vladimir Putin?

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  2. How ironic! The map is from Zionist twin-sisters propaganda websites – Wikimedia and Wikipedia – both co-founded by Jimmy Donal Wales, a Zionist Jew, who visit Israel in May, and according to JTS, “like” the entity.

    Having cleared the fog – Putin is just replaying George Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” propaganda. Russia cannot defeat ISIS, which is funded by its allies against Muslim world, i.e. the US, UK, Israel, France, Germany, Canada, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc. – unless Putin put Russian boots and start shooting all the jets intruding into Syrian, Lebanese and Iraqi airspace.

    At the moment the real combat activities on ground are carried out by Syrian army and its ally Hizbullah.

    On November 20, UK’s newspaper The Guardian published an Op-Ed written by Brig. General (ret) Michael Herzog, in which the baby-killer said that Israel is not interested in a diplomatic solution to Syrian bloodshed as it would keep power in the hands of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad who is an ally of both Iran and Lebanese resistance Hizbullah.

    Herzog also asserted that ISIS is a terrorist group, but it doesn’t pose any threat to Israel. He said the real ‘existential’ threat to Israel is Hizbullah which has nearly 100,000 rockets and shares common borders with Israel. He also claimed that as result of the US-Iran nuclear agreement, Hizbullah has been further emboldened…….

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/12/04/israel-to-defeat-hizbullah-assad-must-go/

  3. says:
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    “Is it fair to say that the future of the world rests in the hands of Vladimir Putin?”

    since Munich, yes… absolutely…

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  4. Finally, as was to be expected, the USA is now sending The Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group into the eastern Mediterranean,

    Saker, this is how the REAL headline reads:

    Officials: Carrier Truman, French flattop to head to Persian Gulf for ISIS strikes

    So, if Persian Gulf for you is the same as “eastern Med”, I don’t know. Something doesn’t add up here, don’t you think?

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  5. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"]
    says:
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    There are claims that the SU24′s radios cannot receive the emergency frequencies used by the Turks.

  6. And where is the Suez Canal? Maybe the Eastern Med? Or is the carrier group going to transit the Cape of Good Hope?

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  7. The western intervention will be made against Syria and Russia

    Eureka, good morning Christopher Columbus. I have been commenting this for weeks now.

    The big war in Syria is inevitable. After Russia interrupted the plans of the Coalition of the Sponsors of terrorism in Syria, to change the elected Syrian government and divide the country into occupied zones, the reaction of the coalition was expected. Even Germany is now offering its special forces for Syria to its masters.

    But the war against Russia has started a while back, probably the best moment to declare the beginning of the war on Russia would be from Ukraine. After the signing of an agreement between Viktor Yanukovych and “opposition” under the guarantees of Germany and France, when US did a coup the next morning and ousted Yanukovych, this is when the war on Russia really started. One of the primary goals of this coup was to kick Russia out of its almost three centuries old naval base in Crimea.

    Is it not just amazing how the USraeli neocons can even command Germany to send its cannon fodder to Syria to fight the Syrians, the Iranians, the Hezbollah and the Russians. The Euro-worms cannot crawl any lower than through the carcass of NATO. They also command the British and the French “parliaments” and control their media.

    They are just repeating the Libya scenario. There will probably be a false-flag, followed by an even bigger anti-Syrian, anti-Iranian, anti-Russian MSM campaign than now. Then the shooting war between NATO and Russia will start. The current silence is deafening, it is a quiet before the storm.

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  8. Irrelevant.

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  9. The Saker is sensationalizing NATO’s “response.” The Truman is in the eastern Mediterranean in transit to the Persian Gulf. It will be on the station formerly occupied by the Theodore Roosevelt. This is not an escalation. The deployment of the Truman appears to be a move to avoid being shown up by the French deploying the Charles De Gaulle (which is also in the Gulf). The aircraft in the Gulf are less of an issue for the Russians than the aircraft based at Incirlik. NATO’s talk of additional forces in Turkey has been just talk and it’s been going on for months. Overall, the NATO powers’ response to the Su-24 incident has been rather mealy-mouthed and tepid. It wasn’t what Erdogan was looking for. NATO’s response seems to reflect some concern that Erdogan is becoming a liability.

    The State Department very carefully parsed their statement on trafficking of ISIS oil, to say that ISIS is not selling oil to the Turkish government but is selling to “middlemen” without saying who is on the other side of that middle. That looks like pretending to say something to get through the briefing while not really saying anything at all.

    At his best the Saker can be insightful and informative, but at his worst he can be sensationalistic, speculative, and unbalanced.

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  10. right now we are on a collision course leading to war.

    Sure looks like it.

    Probably the only hope now is Trump in the White House. A blunt-spoken, hard-negotiating President who is not anyone’s puppet, who was against the Iraq War and is against current US policy in Syria, who identifies ISIS as the #1 threat, who has said he would have a great relationship with Putin….is just what is needed in these dangerous times.

    Unfortunately that hopeful possibility is still a year away…

  11. Hey Saker,
    Good analysis, as usual. I’ve read your posts since the Russian entry into the Syrian “imbroglio,” and it’s clear you have both expansive knowledge and sound experience. Your views and other expert opinions not carried by the Main Stream Media are, of course, crucial to understanding what’s at stake in the ISIS/Syrian conflict as the U.S. and it’s Euro and other vassal state NATO members needlessly and irresponsibly up the ante toward mindless war — despite playing into the hands of ISIS. Most Americans don’t even know how powerful the Neocons (and the Israeli lobbies who support them in media, think tanks, and universities) are in America. Obama has largely tolerated and embraced them (even in his own administration), unfortunately, and still does — it was a minor miracle that enough “sane” people in this country and policy makers were able (barely) to complete the Iran nuclear agreement without severe consequences and possible warring on Iran . . . quite amazing, really! Anyway, please keep posting . . . your contributions are greatly appreciated!

  12. And where is the Suez Canal? Maybe the Eastern Med? Or is the carrier group going to transit the Cape of Good Hope?

    Ah, I see, so now any Russian Northern Fleet SSN deployed to the Atlantic then is being sent to GIUK Gap. After all, GIUK is a part of the Atlantic and heading to the station somewhere in the general vicinity of Norfolk can easily be construed as being deployed to GIUK merely on the merit that said SSN must pass through GIUK on her way to the station, right? My “impression” however was that Truman’s CBG is being deployed to the Persian Gulf together with de Gaulle, not to the Eastern Med. One can not be slightly pregnant. While there is no denial that US is in cahoots with its terrorist client states such as Turkey or Qatar, US movements, however, have to be reported for what they are and the news clearly state that Truman is being deployed to the Persian Gulf. This is not what Saker states and I quote:

    Finally, as was to be expected, the USA is now sending The Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group into the eastern Mediterranean,

    Actually, as was to be expected, US Navy merely is returning CBG to Persian Gulf by means of passing through Suez, which happened to be in the Eastern Med.

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  13. says:
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    The problem Russia has is that Russia may not be able to beat the combined forces of NATO in Syria, but it needs to win there because the consequences of losing in Syria would be horrendous for Russia.

    Losing there would mean the AZ empire would be able to focus on the divide and conquer game closer to the Russian heartland itself. If that happens the Russians could start to be bottled in. By fighting the war in Syria, Russia gets to fight the AZ empire with local allies in Iran, Hezbolah, Syrian army under the high moral ground.

    So Saker might not like to hear this but the fight in Syria is the fight for all the marbles. Hopefully Putin knows this.

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  14. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman@gmail.com"]
    says:
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    Well, yes and no,

    Yes it is irrelevant because the Turkish story does not add up. The Russian plane, by Turkey’s own claim was only in their airspace for 17 seconds.

    However, it is relevant in that it explains, if true, why the Russian pilots did not hear the claimed warnings.

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  15. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"]
    says:
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    Of course, should an incident occur before the CBG transits the Suez Canal, it could be diverted …

  16. Is GUIK an English word or are we being flashed acronyms that “those in the know” know to show “those not in the know” don’t know? CBG? WTF? Use English please. It facilitates communication.

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  17. This comment seems much closer to the mark than the original post.
    “Middlemen” like Bilal Erdogan.
    Now we appear to have a new Turk infestation in northern Iraq. The Iraqi government, such as it is, has loudly complained. It should be aware that there is a northern cat which knows how to deal with things like that.

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  18. of course he knows, and so does the empire. and the empire seems to want war or it thinks putin/russia will back down every single time. just listening to erodan’s smug response in the press is enough to tell you this.

    that is how WWIII starts.

    clear your bucket-list people. time is short. who the fuck would become a slave willingly in 2015? the empire is really fucking stupid. and it seems the only way it will wake up from the stupid empire dream is when nukes start flying.

    clear your bucket list. just do it, so you will have no regrets.

  19. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIUK_gap

  20. it deliberately shot down another country’s military aircraft even though it was absolutely obvious that this aircraft presented no threat whatsoever to Turkey or the Turkish people

    Depends on how one defines the Turkish people. Apparently Erdogan considers the Turkomans in Syria to be Turks. I think he called them brothers during this crisis. I don’t know if he shot down that plane for Turkish reasons (Russia bombing the Turkomans whom Turkey supports) or because he got an order from Washington to do it. Both motivations are plausible to me.

  21. The KRG invited that contingent.

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  22. The Saker yet again feel the urge to start his piece by striking out at his illusory “flag-wavers and “hurrah patriots”.

    Who are these people or fantasies he is referring to? In short probably anyone that does not share and parrot Saker´s doomsday-pessimistic approach to these developments.

    One thing is clear: If i was a general about to lead my troops into battle i would certainly not hire “The Saker” to rally and inspire them with courage and motivation. What Saker essentially is saying is: Move on folks. Let´s hope and pray for the best but in reality, the battle is over. The Empire is all over us and there is nothing we can do, run for the shelters.

    What saker is doing, perhaps not intentional, is what the people he probably despises more than anything, the “fifth columns” in the Russian society, does. To instil a sense of hopelessness and apathy even before the battle has started.

  23. @But the war against Russia has started a while back

    More precisely in 1914 and is ongoing, with intervals of “Phoney Peace” used to better prepare and position the attacking forces. The ultimate goal is the same, the elimination of Russia as a state and opening her to the unbridled exploitation of her otherwise unreachable riches. Russia proved to be a too tough nut to crack (as even Hitler was reported to have said).
    And you can go even further back: 1853, 1812, and all the way back to the beginning of Russia as a state.

  24. I have watched Putin play a good game against US Ambassador Morningstar and his handlers since the Balkan wars/Caspian oil era.

    My take is that we are not at the endgame stage. NATO is just playing poker and bluffing. If not, Russia has the Dead Hand option as a least resort.

    Based on El Nino weather modelling it would appear that Eastern Europe and the Middle East will be very cold this winter. When Ukraine runs out of natural gas stores, it will steals gas meant for trans shipment to Turkey. Turkey obtains some 33% of their natural gas via this East Stream route and it should be enough for Western Europe to realize that trade is better than sanctions. Perhaps new governments for Ukraine and Turkey will be a New Year’s gift for the world.

  25. We say, Better Grave than a Slave.
    No like nor enjoy it, but to each his own.
    Slavemasters no get this, perhaps after some lOOOOng winter and darkness descendants who survive will, at least for a lOOOOng, lOOOOng time, unless we meet same destiny as those big fellows that have left 65mil. years ago.

  26. SmoothieX12 wants to show off that he knows the mil-speak, which is all in acronyms, as per the jokes in that old movie Good Morning Vietnam.

    GIUK Gap is the North Atlantic traffic choke-off point, a point where NATO could stop Russian supplies to Syria and/or Russian navy re-enforcements to the Eastern Mediterranean, if/when Turkey closes off the Bosphorus. Pre-positioning of the Russian Norther Fleet to this area may be a sign that Russia is trying to reduce the chances of its Syrian force being choked off.

    CBG is, of course, a US carrier battle group. Individuals who made a comment that the aircraft carrier Truman (its CBG) is heading for Persian Gulf and not Eastern Mediterranean are talking a diversion. Truman may be more useful choking off Iran, plus Syria is in the range of its planes even if in the Persian Gulf.

  27. As for the USA, not only did it fully back Turkey, it now also categorically denies that there is any evidence that Turkey is purchasing Daesh oil.

    Guess who Daesh’s largest customer is? Israel: http://www.globes.co.il/en/article.aspx?did=1001084873

    Remember that fact next time ‘Sean’ berates Syria for buying back their own stolen oil.

    The creation of a NATO-protected safe heaven for “moderate terrorists” could provide the first step for breaking up Syria into several smaller statelets.

    Yup. That’s the next step in the Bosnification of the middle east. Then the ‘moderate terrorists’ become a sort of KLA for the purpose of destabilizing the neighboring Axis of Resistance countries. You can thank Oded Yinon!

    As for Georgia, the main purpose behind the discussion of its incorporation into NATO is to vindicate the “Saakashvili line”, i.e. to reward aggression towards Russia. Here again, there is nothing Russia can do.

    Actually, Saker, in this case there’s nothing Georgia can do–unless they feel like renouncing all claims Abkhazia and S. Ossetia first. No one in Europe is going to admit Georgia to NATO so long as it has two border disputes.

    If we strip all the NATO verbiage about “defending our members” what is happening now is that the Empire has now apparently decided that going down the road to war is safe because Russia will not dare to “start” a war.

    Well, if I know those deceitful shit-sacks in Washington and Brussels, they’ll try and make it look as though the Russians started it. Beware the false-flag, and beware the ‘Pearl Harbor type event’.

    These are dark times. Beware… always.

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  28. “Is it fair to say that the future of the world rests in the hands of Vladimir Putin?”

    The future lies with China. If China stands with Russia, no sure thing, the chances of cutting down NATO to size increase over time.

    Otherwise, it’s up to Western voters, especially in France, Germany and Great Britain, to replace the current American lapdogs with independent leaders.

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  29. says:
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    The Saker neglects to mention several historic points that seem rather ominous with regard to what he is saying.

    1) One of the ‘lessons’ from the start of WW 1 is that it is very dangerous when a big power is allied to a weaker power, and the weaker power thinks the big power has its back. Austria-Hungary was the weaker-power in the run-up to WW1, and a key step along that path was when Germany told Austria that it had full German support in its dispute with Serbia. Austria then decided to demand a very punitive ultimatum from the Serbs, and then went to war when the Serbs even agreed to surrender a great deal of their sovereignty. And thus Germany found itself in the middle of a world war.

    2). Hitler also thought the allies were too weak and too afraid to start a war when he invaded Poland. And indeed, England and France were weaker than Germany at that point. And of course the Allies had shown a pattern of ‘appeasement’ instead of confrontation to that point. His mis-judgement was that he didn’t realize that peoples and nations have a limit on how far they can be pushed. The English and French governments weren’t going to be pushed around one more time after Munich, and the people of those nations largely felt the same way. So, Hitler mis-calculated in continuing his boldness that had worked up until that point and destroyed his Reich and his nation in the process.

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  30. says:
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    The GIUK gaps refer to the gaps between Greenland, Iceland and UK. A predicted battleground for the next big naval fight as any Russian ships/subs trying to leave their Northern Russian bases have to get out into the Atlantic through one of these gaps.

  31. A fair and realistic analysis that only underscores the corner Putin is putting Russia in. Unfortunately Putin has no credibility left after his own disinformation campaigns over MH-17, Russian troops in Ukraine so he can yell all he wants about Turkish perfidy and convince no one and Daesh oil exports are yesterday’s news and problem.

    That Putin finds the downing of his fighter bomber the graver insult rather than the downing of a plane full of Russian tourists goes to the heart of this thugs tin ear and why he is bad news for the Russian people. A Western leader would have gone to Sinai and shown his concern and sympathy for such a brutal act of terrorism not foamed at the mouth in Moscow over a fighter bomber getting shot down under dubious circumstances particularly after months of similar aerial provocations by Russian military aircraft all over Scandinavia, Britain, the US and Japan!

    • Disagree: Thirdeye
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  32. That’s rather dubious, in spite of the corruption of the Barzani and Talabani clans. Other sources say that they are “training” a Sunni Arab force previously unknown to history. In any case it’s pretty clear, even by the lax constitutional standards of Iraq, that the Kurdish sectional administration has no right to invite foreign armed forces against the will of the central government. Such a right would render more than doubtful the bare existence of any state.

    • Replies:
  33. The problem with 1) is that it gives a misleading picture by omitting the other side of the coin – the unconditional Russian support for Serbia and French support for Russia.

  34. says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    The curtain has slowly been pulled aside allowing us to see more of what’s actually been taking place despite attempts to keep things obscured. This whole thing now looks like a large business, a dirty one of violence and plundering. There’s nothing spontaneous about any of this, it’s not some sudden uprising but apparently had been in the works for some time prior. They aren’t just guys with guns but have the expertise available to manage a major oil extraction and export business. This explains how they’ve managed to sustain themselves on such a large scale and supply themselves with weapons, run a media propaganda department and on down the list. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been washing around as thousands of trucks have been going back and forth. Turkey has been profiting through this as well as other countries getting in on the action. Now it all makes sense.
    I wonder if the US has also been profiting, selling weapons in return for stolen oil money? This trade, because of it’s size, can’t be conducted on a cash basis where truckloads of bundled twenty-dollar bills are shipped around and stored in people’s closets. The revenue has to be deposited in some banking systems and transferred electronically to the various players. This means that the ‘rebels’ have a banking system that they draw on as needed. The US with it’s much vaunted capability to track ‘dirty money’ can’t identify where this money is being pooled and take action to freeze it’s assets, place sanctions, etc? It would be nice to see a list of the actual financial ‘supporters of terrorism’. That might be an eye-opener. Let the whole truth come out.

    • Replies:
  35. No actual state could be identified as the culprit for the chartered flight, whereas the guilty government in the Su-24 case was obvious and admitted. Not a very difficult distinction to grasp, but apparently so for you.

    • Replies:
  36. I disagree with your presumption that Turkish/Nato forces will be successful in attempting R2P or a safe haven zone in Northern Syria. Turkey/NATO may “play around” in Northern Iraq for a while though

    Russia will meet any such attempt in Syria with overwhelming force. It would be a pay me now or pay later situation. Russia would be put in a situation of using EVERY weapon available to stop it in its tracks.

    However, the west/NATO are approaching a serious financial calamity and may push this with the view that “at least we can blame Russia” for the collapse. I think Putin has reached (if he hasn’t he has the patience of Job) the point where there are bigger considerations than “mere” financial collapse of the west.

    You do, at times, lapse into near manic depressive modes of analysis.

  37. Unit 472: “Putin has no credibility left after his own disinformation campaigns over MH-17, Russian troops in Ukraine”

    In the absence of any reliable information, the above words lack credibility (i.e. they are lies). You have peddling these Billingcat/State Dept.’ assertions for weeks already; this kind of peddling could certainly works for the presstituting MSM but not for independent media: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/06/obamas-credibility-crisis/
    “Obama’s Credibility Crisis:” :”… Obama should go on television in the style of President Dwight Eisenhower’s farewell address in 1961, sitting in the Oval Office, none of Obama’s glitzy stage-craft, and simply level with the American people. Before the speech, Obama could release the 28 pages from the congressional 9/11 report about Saudi support for the hijackers. He also could release other U.S. intelligence analyses on the role of the Saudis, Qataris and Turks in supporting Al Qaeda and ISIS. He could toss in what U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded about the 2013 sarin gas attack in Syria and about the 2014 shoot-down of MH-17 in Ukraine.”

    If you still are not aware, the US refuse to reveal the data collected during the shoot-down of MH-17 in Ukraine. And you know why? – Because “as U.S. intelligence analysts shifted through the evidence, some moved off in a different direction, blaming a rogue element of the Ukrainian government…” https://consortiumnews.com/2015/10/13/mh-17-the-dog-still-not-barking/

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  38. says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    1) One of the ‘lessons’ from the start of WW 1 is that it is very dangerous when a big power is allied to a weaker power, and the weaker power thinks the big power has its back.

    This works also with Turkey hiding behind the back of the US-NATO.

    • Replies:
  39. In the Decmber 2015 issue of Culture Wars, editor E Michael Jones reviews a remarkable book that has just come back into print, State Secrets, by the Comte Leon de Poncins.

    A quote from the review:

    “At the beginning of his book
    State Secrets, the Comte Leon de
    Poncins presents us with a quote,
    which I have altered by removing
    one word:

    It is only when we realize that
    [country X] was invaded by
    hundreds of thousands of inhabitants
    from Massachusetts,
    Pennsylvania, Florida, Ilhnois,
    Wyoming, California, Louisiana,
    and subsequently from
    Ontario, Manitoba, Rhodesia,
    and New South Wales,
    whose only possible motive
    was to hasten the triumph of
    democracy, that we begin to
    understand something of the
    power of Israel. The power to
    stir up a whole nation of solid,
    egoistical, and utilitarian individuals,
    and to persuade them
    that their greatest privilege is
    to set out and get themselves
    killed at the uttermost ends
    of the earth, with no hope of
    gain for themselves or their
    children and almost without
    their understanding against
    or for whom they are fighting,
    or why, is a simply incredible
    phenomenon which makes
    one afraid when one comes to
    think about
    it.

    The word missing from this quote
    was France, and the war to which
    it referred to was the First World
    War. The fact that the contemporary
    reader could have substituted
    Iraq or, now, the Ukraine into that
    passage without changing either its
    relevance or accuracy is just one
    indication of the timeless value of
    Poncins’ book State Secrets.

    The thesis of Poncins’ book is
    blindingly clear and breathtakingly
    simple:
    At a crucial period in history,
    the fact is that a group of Jews
    in political circles succeeded in
    secretly orientating the foreign
    policy of the United States
    and thereby played a role of
    the utmost importance in determining
    the turn of events
    in Europe. In other words, as
    a result of their activities, the
    whole strength of the United
    States at the height of the war
    was placed at the service of
    Israel’s revolutionary interests
    and ideology

    Clearly, some things never change. It is always good to learn who it is who is so influential in world politics and world wars.

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  40. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    Did Erdogan plan the shootdown up to six weeks before it happened for domestic political reasons?

    http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-turkey-planned-su-24-downing-six-weeks-before-the-incident/

    • Replies:
  41. “Actually, Saker, in this case there’s nothing Georgia can do–unless they feel like renouncing all claims Abkhazia and S. Ossetia first. No one in Europe is going to admit Georgia to NATO so long as it has two border disputes.”

    Good point. I agree that factor seems to stand in the way of Georgia’s accession to NATO—as well as Ukraine’s. I am somewhat surprised by The Saker’s rather dire interpretation of the Syrian situation.

  42. GIUK gap = Greenland – Iceland – UK gap
    CBG = Carrier Battle Group, currently CSG = Carrier Strike Group
    Abbreviations important to know, if you are interested in subjects presented in articles like this.

  43. You do realize that within hours of receiving the report that the airliner was brought down by a bomb, Russia launched a shock and awe aerial campaign against ISIS, the likes of which had not been seen since the early days of the US war against Iraq, don’t you?

  44. The tepid response of NATO to the Su-24 incident seems to be a signal that their support for Turkey is conditional.

    • Agree: tbraton
    • Replies:
  45. Very good point.

  46. Putin has no credibility left after his own disinformation campaigns over MH-17,

    after saying something like this, it is you who has zero credibility

    A Western leader would have gone to Sinai

    the only one I know of who makes routine trips over there to hand out money and guns is John McCain. Is that the kind of Western leader you’re talking about? You sound like you could be on his staff.

  47. Unit is a slang term for penis.

    Might indicate that he’s using his small head for thinking and that that is the best he can do.

  48. A sound analysis of the current state of affairs in the Middle East by Colonel Lang, a great expert in counterintelligence as well as in the Middle East.

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2015/12/on-the-farid-zakariya-newsie-today-susan-rice-explained-with-some-brevity-and-clarity-that-no-fly-zonessanctuary-areas-in-sy.html#comments

    “…the only Sunnis seriously fighting the Islamists (IS, Nusra, etc.) are Kurds and the Sunni Arab soldiers and militia fighting on the side of the government in Syria. They and their Russian, Hizbullah, IRGC and sectarian and ethnic militia allies are alone and will remain alone.”
    The US are on the side of the Gulf Princes and Turkey, whereas Turkey is on a side of ISIS. What a bizarre picture, courtesy the US neocons.
    No wonder that the ziocons (Feith, Kristols, Kagans and such) hate Colonel Lang, the true American patriot and highly knowledgeable person. The scoundrels need ignoramuses and make-belief strategy to implement their rotten PNAC plans.

  49. The Russian military presented a devastating series of photos and videos shot by Russian air and space assets proving that Turkey does, indeed, purchase oil from Daesh.

    Obviously, Turkey is pretending to fight ISIS like Russia is pretending to fight ISIS. Turkey is using ISIS as a cat’s paw to fight the Kurds just as Russia is using ISIS as a cat’s paw to fight the Free Syrian Army.

  50. Uyguroğlar invading Turks always get “invited”, didn’t you know ?

    The Turkic nomads were invited to Asia Minor from their homeland Uyguristan also, whereby they proceeded to destroy, massacre, loot, steal,….
    Whatever they did not destroy became, quote, “Turkish”.
    Most recently Turks were “invited” to Cyprus, where their occupation army, sorry “invited guests”, still sit on 40% of the lands of the hosts.

  51. {….a new Turk infestation….}

    Well said. “Infestation” indeed.

  52. Turkish story does not add up. The Russian plane, by Turkey’s own claim was only in their airspace for 17 seconds

    .
    I don’t know whether this is malice or stupidity, but No one claims Turkish aircraft issued the warnings within 17 seconds. Warnings happened before the intrusion.

    You cannot have extraordinary opinions, without even the most mundane level of knowledge.

  53. Nothing has changed since the days of manufactured Korean crisis and Cuban crisis both within and outside US . Salvodorian response ,Gladio,and Northwood are all merged together in one big unit and sold as the duty to protect with a black box warning of the new existential threat . Obama has managed to survive while Kennedy couldn’t because Kennedy picked up too many fights while Obama downgraded the intensity of the confrontations and decreased the areas of confrontations to one or two .Abroad the secular and national resistances have been destroyed by the recreation of the old Salvodirian and anti communists thugs of yesteryear now named as IS. IS serves both current and future purpose as Al Quida did in 1980 and in 2001. One thing is certain that IS would be more aggressively attacked after Russia folds . Until then it would be supported and nurtured .IS would be the pretext for Anerican- Israeli interventions in future when Americns will be expected to have succeessfully forgotten the deranged labyrinthine relationship of US -Israel with Turkey and Saudi and Gulf – the so called moderates of today .
    That is the only means available to the Zionist on their way to realizing the plans of attacking every regimes in Arab and N Africa as was exposed by Wesley Clarke since the original momentum petered out toarfs the end of Bush Cheney era
    Turkey and Saudi would be accused of harboring IS . Destabilization of these regime would reach Iran and Pakistan or beyond again recreating post 2003 Iraq cauldron. Russia would be attacked by the ” IS” of the future chaos arising out of total disintegration of Iran ,Iraq,Pakistan .

    China which has faced American heat lately is feeling a little more secure after the lowering of rhetorics by US . In turn ,it has not condemned Turkey . China has its own billionaire elites in the top echelon of the ruling elite . This prevents China to embrace anti western posture . In some way China resembles the Yeltsin era as far the Chinese oligarchs ate concerned . These oligarchs will prevent China to become aware of the danger it is facing from the west .

  54. It is simply pathetic to make posts alluding to US Intelligence Agency assessments as if you have had access to them and know what they contain. Even if you did you would be left in the same position as real life policy makers… trying to make sense of it all as by the time you learn something it may no longer be ‘operative’. Of course the other issue is to reveal what you know may reveal how you know it and ‘national technical means’ are, perhaps, the most closely guarded secrets of all.

    That Putin shoots his mouth off about this sort of stuff only enhances his reputation as a clown!

    • Replies: ,
  55. One point to consider which may change the situation drastically. From the pundits I have read who have experience they claim, bombing by itself will not take out IS. If there are more IS attacks on Western targets, the political pressure in the West will be to have troops on the ground. I imagine the neocons would welcome this thinking after defeating IS they can then march onto Damascus. Problem is, IS looks to be an formidable enemy. If you read the Cockburn article, would any allied ground force taking on IS be a repeat of Viet Nam?

    http://www.unz.com/pcockburn/why-isis-is-a-formidable-ferocious-enemy-that-will-not-be-defeated-from-the-air/

  56. Utter Nonsense article (again).

    A typical Saker whining again. I have read other articles of this guy and let me tell you I am kind of sick and tired of his articles which constantly (but subtly) underestimate the Russian state and military. By his own admission he has left Russia at the end of 90s and I guess he still believes Russia is stuck in that post yeltsin era. I have noticed that his recent articles almost borderline with bashing Russia for what she is doing in Syria and Ukraine. Seems to me that he is terribly dissatisfied with the fact that Russia is succeeding in Syria. I don’t know his real agenda but his articles irritate lots of people lately. He keeps on repeating that Russia cannot control any area more than one thousand miles outside Russian borders. What is the rational for this? Only god knows. I cannot find any consistency in his articles lately. On top of that, his arrogant and rude manners in his replies to some readers with whom he doesn’t agree with, really shows that he is hardly in control of his temper let alone his articles (and no I have never ever written any reply against his articles before personally). One of the very first articles that he wrote about the atlantists and euroasian integrists in Russia during the 90s which launched his career was highly praised by Pepe Escobar. Guess what? Those ideas were directly taken from Alexander Dugin (refer to his book “Foundations of Geopolitics” etc.) and he didn’t even have the decency to make any reference to him. Sorry, I may sound harsh on him, but I couldn’t stop myself writing this reply (my very first reply to him) , when I saw another completely irrational article yet again.

  57. Last Monday, Greek foreign minister Nikos Kotzias delivered a speech at the University of Tehran in which he called the Islamic Republic and China the new emerging powers.

    “We live in ever-changing world extending from the Atlantic to Pacific Ocean. The shift of power is happening from the West to the East to a degree today, new powers and countries with long histories like Iran and China are emerging in the world,” Kotzias said.

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/11/30/greek-fm-iran-and-china-are-new-emerging-powers/

  58. “Of course the other issue is to reveal what you know may reveal how you know it and ‘national technical means’ are, perhaps, the most closely guarded secrets of all.”

    What exactly have you tried to convey in your post that sounds after the incomparable Rumsfeld? How is your post related to the incompleteness of information peddled by the MSM, which you found, for some unfathomable reason, not only reliable but deserving for repeating it again and again on Unz Review comment site? You are obviously very irritated with Putin and you continue translate this irritation into presenting the non-factual information as it emitted by MSM (the State Dept.), while categorically rejecting any factual information as it presented by independent media. Of course Bellincat does not belong to the latter, considering the infatuation for Elliot Higgins by the neocon-infested Atlantic Council and the Department of War Studies at King’s College London. You see, the specialist in selling the ladies underwear has found some very powerful friends for his laughable “analyses” of events in Ukraine and Syria, because these laughable analyses are aligned with the war-profiteers’ passionate desires for war and more war. What is so important Putin’ personality that you lose your cool? He is no worse than Obama or Netanyahu or the vassal Cameron. The US are content to maintaining friendship with the murderous Gulf Princes and the greedy (and stupid) Erdogan. At least Putin is consistent with regard to the liver-eaters and head-choppers, unlike the US and Israel (and the UK via the vassalage). Don’t you like the latest revelations about Turkey and Israel making business with ISIS?

    • Replies:
  59. He is no worse than Obama or Netanyahu or the vassal Cameron.

    Wrong framework.

  60. This is a silly article. There is nothing ‘unprecedented’ about one nation shooting down another nation’s aircraft. The Turks have clearly observed the Russians shoot down numerous Ukrainian aircraft, over Ukrainian territory. The idea that Turkey was acting at the deliberate behest of an ‘Anglo-Zionist Empire’ is fanciful in the extreme. As if Obama would actually want a military confrontation with Russia, at whatever remove, the idea is foolish.

    It is clear that the Russians have a complete lack of respect for their neighbours borders, a lack of respect the Turks are not prepared to accept. The Russians clearly repeatedly violated Turkish airspace in a cavalier fashion and the Turks decided to defend the integrity of their borders. And after the wailing and whining, the Russians will be a great deal more respectful of Turkish sovereignty.

    Or else it is all part of a cunning Imperialist, Zionist plot……. Get real.

    • Replies: , ,
  61. I’m sorry to bust your ‘Putin fantasy’. He too maintains good relations with all those “greedy and throat cutters”, especially with the “baby killer” Netanyahu.

    On September 21, Putin welcomed Netanyahu, his defense chief of staff and head of Jewish military intelligence. Netanyahu conveyed his concern over Russian military personnel fighting along Syrian forces and supply of Russian air-to-air anti-aircraft system. He assured Putin that Israeli pilots would make sure they don’t hit Russian targets but warned Putin of collateral damage. Netanyahu told reporters after the meeting that Putin had promised to share intelligence with Israel over conflict in Syria.

    Russia like China is still a colonial power. It’s still occupying several Muslim lands, such as, Crimea, Chechnya, Sochi, Siberia, Dagestan, and Ingushetia.

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/09/29/putins-syrian-paradox/

    • Replies: , , , ,
  62. There is nothing ‘unprecedented’ about one nation shooting down another nation’s aircraft.

    there is when both military aircraft are supposed to be on the same side, fighting against the same enemy. But as it’s becoming increasingly clear, Turkey is funding and arming and providing logistical support for the head slicers. And so they don’t want Putin to crush ISIS, because they’re on the side of ISIS.

    Imagine if Canada were to shoot down a US surveillance aircraft that had repeatedly violated Canadian airspace in a ‘cavalier fashion’ and they said, ‘hey’ next time respect our borders’! – it might cause a diplomatic incident, eh?

    ~ this is Bibi and his crew (how did you put it? – ‘Anglo-Zionist Empire’) vs. Putin and sanity and the rest of us in the 21st century

    http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2015/12/scottish-mum55461/

  63. I am not sure what you and all the people who state this are thinking. I tried to explain to all of you the internal dynamics of NATO, but you keep persisting with your illusions.

    Ok, let me explain again:
    1) the US is a master of NATO, as much as Israel is the master of US,
    2) the US can force any decision inside NATO, through its standard methods of foreign state control, but those methods cost a lot in terms of exposing Western “democracies” for what they really are, thus the US will not waste its control on minor issues,
    3) the US can force the acceptance of Georgia and Ukraine into NATO if it wants to,
    4) the US does support Turkey, but the US understand that EU countries of NATO are not keen on Turkish mischief, so it treads carefully.
    In summary, the US support or Turkey is unconditional, the NATO support is slightly conditional. All it would take for the support to become unconditional is a good ol’ false-flag, such was MH17. What stands in the way is that the Turks are not as good in organizing false-flags as Israelis. Turkish false-flags often get exposed, for example when they blew up a Turkish monument to blame Syria for it (the Western MSM kept mum on the whole sordid affair). Ghouta chemical weapons attack was not a great success either. But we never know what kind of cooperation may be offered by Israel to get Turkey and NATO shooting at Russia.

    I actually share, what some called here, Saker’s pessimism. The only hope I can think of is that Israel realizes that Russia will not give up on Syria and to accept some compromise with its own plans. But the Israelis are not famous for compromises, thus a shooting war between the West and Russia is highly likely.

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  64. This Turdeye character is one of the many many sychophants that hangs out at moonofalabama.org

    The person the runs moa has banned links to the Sakers website. The moonies have predicted wrongly every single phase of the syrian war while Saker has not. 7 or 8 days before the russians announced their air campaign the fools at moa were claiming that the syrian war was “winding down.” Most likey the moonies are jealous because of that. “Clueless” doesn’t even begin to describe these moonie halfwits.

    Not content with censoring comments with links to the saker, the jealous clueless moonies have obviously decided to venture here to denigrate saker

  65. Netanyahu conveyed his concern over Russian military personnel fighting along Syrian forces and supply of Russian air-to-air anti-aircraft system.

    heh

    .

    It’s still occupying several Muslim lands, such as, Crimea, Chechnya, Sochi, Siberia, Dagestan, and Ingushetia

    this is childish

    why do you guys come here and wipe feces on the walls and slobber absurdities ?

    I guess it’s to disrupt

    trolls..

    -sigh-

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  66. Under your criteria of “a colonial power”, there would be very few countries left in the World left which are not colonial. Naturally, this is the usual BS of the Western propagandists: a speck in someone else’s eye is bigger than a log in your own. Keep faithfully delivering your BS, perhaps some will consume it here instead of the usual source – the MSM.

    A couple of nicks here have the role to keep repeating the general MSM propaganda sewage here: Russia is a colonialist, Russia is a colonialist, Russia is a colonialist….

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  67. Russia is returning to its senses . It has not learnt from the Afghanistan of 1980 ,it never bothered to figure out the ignoring of warnings on 911 by the neocons and willfully ignored the geoplitical reasons of subsequent frontal preemptive attacks against Somalia,Iraq and Libya by the deep state of US against traditional American hegemonic behaviors
    It curried favors ,it lurched and limped forward with the band played by the neocons until Syrian unravelled .
    It should hav drawn the right conclusion from the color coded foreign terrorism known as color revolution . It didn’t It should have from Geogian intrusion. It didn’t . It went with sanctions on Iran year after year .It has eventually figured it out that Syria is th new gate to Stalingrad and not only to Tehran . Turkey,Saudi and Gulf are buying time to escape the fate of Sadddam and Ghadafi . The general hatred against Muslim and Islam in the west would be of enormous help to rouse people to wars against the decreipt and tyrannical midfle eastern regimes as was done against Saddam /Iraq for 11 yrs before 2003 .

  68. 2 things of note happened in the last 24hrs

    1- Turkey was given a 24hr ultimatum by Iraq to get its soldiers, ensconsed in Kurdish-controlled area, the hell outta Iraq territory. Turkey apparently intends to send reinforcements.

    2 – For the first time US aircraft have directly attacked Syrian Army forces. An artillery position was bombed by the Anglo-ZioNasty empire killing at least 1 SAA soldier.

    A New phase of the war is on its way.

    Rather than “winding down”, things are about to heat up.

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  69. {It is clear that the Russians have a complete lack of respect for their neighbours borders, a lack of respect the Turks are not prepared to accept.}

    Nomad Turk kettle from Uyguristan calling the pot black.
    What do you call IslamoFascist Turks invading and occupying 40% of Cyprus, Türkoğlu.
    That must be “respect for their neighbor’s borders” in the invadonomad Uyguroğlu Universe.
    And when did nomad Turkic tribes get to appreciate the concept of “borders”: nomads, by definition, have no respect for borders; that’s why they are called nomads, Türkoğlu.

    You nomad Turks are squatters in somebody else’s lands in Asia Minor.
    Who are you nomads to talk about “respect” of neighbors’ borders.

  70. “Wrong framework.”
    Why?

    • Replies:
  71. What is wrong when statesmen use diplomacy? We have had more than enough of “mission-accompished” cowboys and such.

  72. “..the Israelis are not famous for compromises, thus a shooting war between the West and Russia is highly likely.”
    True. But they are not suicidal. Hopefully, when met with people that are not afraid to be called anti-semites for criticizing the idiocy of some policies of the state of Israel (policies that could be actually deadly harmful for Israel), the Israelis could use rational agency.

  73. “…the US aircraft have directly attacked Syrian Army force…”

    Since there was no acts of aggression from Syria against the US and therefore there is no way to qualify the US acts against Syria as defensive, the US attack is an aggression against the sovereign state of Syria. When will we hear about the UN convening to condemn the crime? So much for international law. But what to expect from a government that glorifies war criminals and defacers of the Constitution: https://theintercept.com/2015/12/04/u-s-first-shields-its-torturers-and-war-criminals-from-prosecution-now-officially-honors-them/

  74. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    I suspect that the Israelis have a secret weapon that will neutralize the S400 systems Russia has installed in Syria.

    We shall see.

    • Replies:
  75. unit42 is a hasbaratchik troll. Or maybe is a team.

  76. Probably this Rehmat is a member of unit42 of the Hasbara army.

  77. The Ukrainians shot down MH17 sure as the day as long. The Dutch Safety Board report is a pathetic farce, particularly as John Helmer documented in the ludicrously small amounts of ‘BUK’ shrapnel that by its own accounting were found, and that could have been planted weeks or months after the fact from an old Ukrainian BUK missile launch test or have no chemical composition relation to the BUK HE warhead whatsoever.

    The Dutch Safety Board blindly accepted on faith every single laughable Ukrainian assertion complete with the Ukrainians claim to have had no military radars operating on July 17, 2014. So Ukraine had NO radars to protect itself operating that day days after screaming about a Russian fighter jet having shot down their An-26 transport plane trying to paradrop supplies to their encircled troops along the Russian border less than a week earlier. The current Ukrainian government is led by scoundrels and fools but enjoys a fanatical propaganda machine and all the benefits of silence and dissembling D.C. can deliver for its client states.

    So yes unit472 spare us about how Putin has lost all his credibility. Sooner or later some Polish nationalist with a bit of self-respect is going to spill the beans on how Russian wasn’t the only country that sent ‘volunteers’ to fight in the Donbass under a local flag.

    And given that Erdogan and his backers in D.C. desperately want a pretext to close the Bosporus — they even put together a pretty good Photoshop of a ‘Russian soldier’ who doesn’t even look Russian on the deck of a Russian cargo ship pointing a MANPAD at the sky during transit through Istanbul — Putin won’t take the bait and bomb the hell out of the Turks new ‘permanent base’ near Mosul. I think he’ll either send one jamming craft to shut down the Turkish radars and allow the Iraqi Air Force to bomb them with U.S. made F-16s, heightening Erdogan’s humiliation…or the PKK and Iraqi IRGC advised Shi’a militias are about to receive planeloads of Kornet ATGMs as Christmas presents from Uncle Vlad. Erdogan is going to find out he can send TOWs to his jihadis to kill SAA inside Syria and be repaid in kind with PKK/IRGC/Iraqis killing his boys with Russian ATGMs both inside Iraq and in Turkey proper.

    Frankly as much as I admire the Saker I don’t think he foresees how Putin has plenty of options to retaliate against the Turks using PKK/Iraqi/Iranian proxies nor how stupid of a move this will turn out to be for the neo-Sultan.

  78. Siberia is Muslim and always was, no Buddhists or Shamans there before Russians showed up? Really? Sorta of like Al-Andalus wasn’t Christian and Constantinople wasn’t Greek my Turk friend?

    • Replies:
  79. I don’t understand the reason for all these comments. They don’t do anything to solve the problem.

    Unless, everyone here wants a WWIII, it is time to start writing to your representatives and demand that they stop this madness. The only one who will this war is Israel. All of us will be incinerated because some pro Israel group wants to play war games. The US is totally out of control. And we call Hitler mad.

    • Replies:
  80. Compare backgrounds of leaders listed by you. Also consider what they represent. Politician and statesman are not synonyms.

    • Replies:
  81. Having read Rehmat’s posts not only here but elsewhere, he strikes me as a muslim supremacist.

    He does not like Russia and China bc these countries are ‘colonialists’, which still ‘occupy’ “muslim” lands.
    Indeed, very childish. He is pretty selective with the evidence too and tends to see everything through religious lenses.
    Take Siberia, vast majority of the population today is Christian. As for the minority indigenous groups, the most numerous of them are generally NOT muslims.
    What Rehmat always omits in his rants is that islam spread throughout the world by the sword and the bow, not merely by preaching the word.

    This sort of silliness plays into the hands of those in the West who are suspicious of muslims in their midst. At the end of the day, such folks may have a point after all.
    Say, Rehmat, when are u gonna claim Canada(that is where u live, correct?) as a muslim land?

    ps: I have nothing against muslims in general – though I hate wahhabis/salafis. – and in fact admire certain countries/groups which happen to be muslim. That is the case of Iran and Hezbollah(though to wahhabi nuts, iranians and shia are apostates, not muslims).

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  82. says:
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    Good analyses but too short sighted in light of the false east west paradigm going on. First, it must be noted that economic numbers as Kyle Bass among many others support the distraction needed to cover up the world currency demise. As shifts are being exercised to jostled positioning for regional re-configuration. It then becomes noticeable to see if Turkey gets invaded or if it joins the Russian, Iran and China alliance. I.e. The wild card?

    A mere observation Watson.

  83. Interesting times for war gamers. Naval Air tactical assets vs. SA-300 and SA-400 SAM systems. Maybe even this all will go on long enough to eval the F/A-35. The war gamers of course will get to consider Chinese, Iranian and Russian submarine assets vs. a carrier group from the U.S. as well as the possibility of swarms of cruise missiles directed against the USS Truman battle group.

    I’ve been wondering when the Navy could cannibalize/cobble together enough crew for the deployment of one carrier battle group from the legions of single mothers that populate 4 carrier battle groups at pier (and their aircraft squadrons and surface and submarine escorts) in Norfolk. Turns out it only took two years. Single mothers with bastard children hate to go to sea; the U.S. Navy hates to prosecute them for missing ship’s movement. #stalemate. The Navy, for single women; It’s not an adventure, it’s just another affirmative action job.

    Putin knows the U.S. Navy is hamstrung by the limitations of lady sailors of the United States 6th fleet. And he cares not one wit about the Truman battle group. For many reasons. This could get good.

  84. It would not be easy to find an Israeli pilot who would be willing to risk testing the Israeli jammer on an S400 radar. But a Turkish pilot, for a good fee, why not. Considering how new S400 is, it probably has the most modern anti-jammer measures. As that Russian academic wrote – under the worst case scenario, an Israeli/Turkish jammer may reduce the range of the Russian radar by up to 20%. But for a system S400 which can cover almost all of Turkey and Israel, this means a marginal difference. Still, almost 100% of Syria would be covered, even by an S400 radar under constant Israeli jamming.

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  85. Actually, Hitler wanted war. He was not at all pleased he didnt get his war at the time of Munich.

  86. I have not read yet about 2. But if it has happened, then Russia and Iran should bring this to UN. I know no resolution will pass, but this would be the first step. The second step would be to start shooting down US and UK planes which attempt to bomb Syrian Government troops.

    Russia has been ignoring Israeli bombing of Syrian troops since Natty Yahho visited Moscow in September. Now it has to start ignoring the US and UK bombings as well?

  87. Did you know Israel is opening its embassy in Abu Dhabi?

  88. Silly stuff. It was an act.

  89. Neither the S300 nor S400 have been tested in actual combat.

    I am guessing Russian military (and the engineers who designed it) are eager to test it against actual targets which can deploy countermeasures, or attempt to avoid the missile chasing them.
    So nobody really know how the S400 will do.
    However, judging by the excellent performance of the cruise missiles launched from the Caspian Sea in their first combat deployment, and the performance of Russian AF’s precision munitions in actual combat, S400 should do as well as in simulations and tests against drone-jets.

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  90. “Politician and statesman are not synonyms.”
    That is a rather cryptic explanation. Then what is the special quality of Messrs. Wolfowitz, Blair, and Erdogan, which makes you so differential to “what they represent?”

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  91. “This whole thing now looks like a large business, a dirty one of violence and plundering.”
    Precisely.
    “It would be nice to see a list of the actual financial ‘supporters of terrorism’. That might be an eye-opener. Let the whole truth come out.”
    The truth is unbearable for the scoundrels. And do not forget that this low-life (war profiteers) wants to be seen as respectable “elites,” though they are nothing more but spiritual midgets and veritable parasitoids.

  92. Agreed, thank you. But perhaps you’ve noticed how all these cyber-warriors go silent if you mention doing anything in the real world. (Makes you wonder what % here are professional trolls, meaning this is their real world. But I digress.)

    In his anti-terror speech tonight, Obama asked the Congress to approve an AUMF to fight ISIS. Elsewhere on this thread, it’s alleged that the US has made its first attack on the SSA. If Obama gets the authorization to fight ISIS in Syria, won’t ‘legalized’ mayhem begin? The entire Axis of Resistance (SSA, Hezbollah, Iran) will be under constant threat of ‘friendly fire’. So IMO one important demand of Congress is to forbid US entry into Syria. (NO to AUMF.)

    In the same vein, H.R. 4108-To prohibit the use of funds for the provision of assistance to Syrian opposition groups and individuals, would forbid any support for Syrian rebels. Introduced by Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI) and Scott Austin (R-GA), it is short and to the point. This bill needs more co-sponsors (that could be any member of the House), and it will need to get approved in committee to get onto the floor for a vote.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/4108

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  93. As far as I know, the cruise missiles and the S400 have been designed by totally different design bureaus. The Israelis have tested an older model S300 which Russia sold to Cyprus, during joint Greek exercises with Israel (it was the same corrupt Greek Government which let down the Greek people on Grexit and return to Drahma). This is where the Israeli claims of having a special weapon against S400 come from – from testing on a 25 year old S300 system. I am absolutely certain that S400 has the latest counter-jammer measures and that it will be extremely hard to successfully jam it.

    As you write, it would be very useful for S400 developers to face the latest Israeli and US radar jammers and other counter-measures, this is how they advance. S400 is an absolute state-of-the-art anti-aircraft/anti-missile system, the US Patriot system is still at the level of the late model S300, thus it has no match in the World.

    I do hope it does not come to shooting down US planes, but we all know how they really intend to bomb – certainly not ISIS.

  94. Yes, there is news on RT that US planes have hit some Syrian Army vehicles, killed four Syrian soldiers and wounded 16: https://www.rt.com/news/324940-syrian-army-coalition-strike/

    In the Western sewerage MSM, there is not a single word about this attack, not a single word.

    The Western plan was from the beginning to pretend attacking ISIS whilst really hitting the Syrian Army to smash Syria up. The US and UK planes are flying over Syria totally illegally and killing Syrian draftees. Finally, the Coalition of the Sponsors of Terrorism is showing its true face – they are the terrorists.

    Only God knows how this is going to turn out, how long will Russia and Syria put up with these criminals killing their people?

  95. @The power to stir up a whole nation of solid, egoistical, and utilitarian individuals…

    A tremendous influence has played the invention of the “Rapture” doctrine by John Nelson Darby (1800–82). The central tenet of dispensationalism is that the nation of Israel is distinct from the Christian Church, and that God has yet to fulfill his promises to national Israel. These promises include the land promises, which in the future world to come result in a millennial kingdom and Third Temple where Christ, upon his return, will rule the world from Jerusalem for a thousand years. In other words, it was tailor-made to engineer Christian support for Zionism, to create the “Christian Zionism”. The doctrine spread like wildfire promoted unceasingly in the print media, then radio and TV.

    The “scriptural” support was the Scofield Reference Bible, published by Oxford University Press with the support of the notorius falsifiers of the text of the New Testament and promoters of a bogus theory of the transmission of the text of the New Testamen, Westcott and Hort. It contais the entire text of the traditional, Protestant King James Version, which first appeared in 1909 and was revised by the author in 1917. Its most important feature, was the printing of what amounted to a commentary on the biblical text alongside the Bible instead of in a separate volume, creating the impression that it is covered by the same “authority” as the real text. This commentary is a complete reworking of the Book of Revelation in a millennialist sense. It also contained a cross-referencing system that tied together related verses of Scripture and allowed a reader to follow biblical themes from one chapter and book to another. Finally, the 1917 edition also attempted to date events of the Bible. Published only a few years before World War I, a war that destroyed the cultural optimism that had viewed the world as entering a new era of peace and prosperity; then the post-World War II era witnessed the creation in Israel of a homeland for the Jews. Thus, Scofield’s premillennialism seemed prophetic. “At the popular level, especially, many people came to regard the dispensationalist scheme as completely vindicated.” Sales of the Reference Bible exceeded two million copies by the end of World War II. The 1917 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible remains “consistently the best selling edition of the Scofield Bible” in the United Kingdom and Ireland (where it actually originated).

    One of the most “vigorous supporters of dispensationalist causes” was Lyman Stewart, one of the founders of the Union Oil Company of California (UNOCAL), coincidentally (?) at the time of the discovery of the major oil fields in the ME.
    And another coincidence: the launch of Geopolitics with its theory of dominating the “heartland” of Eurasia (i.e. Russia) which would became the “scientific” support for the necessity of domination of the ME by the Anglo-Zionist alliance.
    So the plan of action for the WWI was laid. The warm up for it were the Spanish-American War, the Russo-Japanese War and the Balkan Wars.

  96. A fighter pilot LOVES this stuff and would follow orders in any case. Never met a fighter jock, did you, Avery? Crazy bastards believe they can defeat ANYTHING, anyone, anywhere and especially, in any weather. And being from the Intruder community I say, “And so they can”.

  97. Avery, safe to say lots of folks are seeing the Syrian festivities as theater to test stealthy assets of all sorts against these Soviet radars. Syria could well become a test bed for the defense contractors if not an absolute playground. At a minimum, all the armed contestants will be developing assets in ECM (jamming) and ELINT for the databases of the various warning sensors deployed in US aircraft. Given every systems’ electronic DNA and being able to ID said DNA in future skirmishes American pilots will know what system they are up against and so develop tactics for dealing with these missiles and radars.

    As in Korea, like Vietnam, like GulfWar I and II, Syria is just the latest Third-World hellhole full of tortured resident souls to serve as the sandbox in which American and Soviet defense industries play. Where generations of defense technologies are transient we can count on the contractor-kiddies to spur and escalate involvement in local skirmishes any way they can. That train is never late. Where carriers play, research is going on. And sure enough…

  98. That is a rather cryptic explanation.

    Absolutely nothing cryptic here. Exactly, there is nothing special in Wolfowitz (with the exception of his Ph.D. in math), Blair or Cameron with Obama–these are all products of US (or Western in general) so called “elite” humanities and liberal arts degree mills. No serious real life experiences, silver spoons and total detachment from the real life. Erdogan is a totally different thing here and I am not talking about him. In general, contemporary “West” is run by lawyers and journos, people who by definition, also, have a very vague understanding of application of force. This is very short non-cryptic explanation–total and militant incompetence of “elites” and the egos larger than cathedrals(c). This subject is so huge that it is impossible to give any meaningful explanation in a short discussion board post. I may try to write more extensively on it in my blog soon. Goggle Gabriel Charmes.

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  99. […] The Unz Review  – Considering the remarkable success of the Russian intervention in Syria, at least so far, it should not have come as a surprise that the AngloZionist Empire would strike back. The only question was how and when. We now know the answer to that question. […]

  100. It’s true that soon after the event, a US official leaked that the shootdown occurred over Syria, not over Turkey. The intentional effect was to undermine Erdogan’s public case.

  101. In all previous wars, where the US and Soviet Union were on the opposite sides, they fought but not under US and USSR flags, then under the flags of their proxies. Likewise here, there will be killing between the Russians and the Americans but it will happen away from the media. The Russian instructors are with the Syrian troops, whilst the US “sneakers on the ground” (no US boots in Syria, only the sneakers made in Vietnam and China are on the Syrian ground, POTUS promised), that is the US instructors are with the moderate head-choppers. There are also Western mercenaires in Syria, just like in Libya. In fact, the West keeps repeating the same military intervention scheme over and over (why change it when it has been working in the past). The only new element in Syria are the Russians.

    Therefore, the most likely outcome is that, eventually, the US and UK will bomb the Syrian troops with Russian instructors and kill some. Then, Russia will hit terrorists with the US sneakers-on-the-ground. A direct air confrontation is highly unlikely, but cannot be ruled out. Of course, a direct air-confrontation could lead fairly quickly to a full-scale nuclear war.

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  102. Muslims did not invade Russia,Silesia,Crackow. Tartars did. They converted to Islam . Tartars exempted Christian churches ,monasteries and the priests from paying taxes . These religious outfits accumulated enormous power ,prestige,and wealth after 200 yrs of Muslim Tarats rules.

    Moscow became more important than Kiev after the Grand Prince of the township of Moscow began to act as a tax farmer for Muslim Tartar and Kiev returned to paganism in 14 th century .
    Page 186
    A HISTROY OF PAGAN EUROPE
    Prudence Jones
    and NigelmPennick

  103. I have nothing against muslims in general

    me either LK, so long as they’re in their own countries, or as invited (temporary) guests

    but massive immigration of Muslims into places like Sweden or Australia or Norway or England where they perpetrate gang rape circles and turn out pre-teen British school girls and pass them around like chattel, are an abomination.

    Proof positive of the suicidal insanity (Zionism) that has poisoned the soul of the West. Emasculated its spirit and has these Muslim Internet wannabe sultans going around reminding us all why we need to keep them out in the first place. Because as soon as they get demographic hegemony, as 2 + 2 = 4, it becomes murderous hegemony like what was done to the Serbian farmer. As they demanded he hand over the sovereignty of his ancient Christian lands to Muslim thugs and murderers. No less than the murder of Theo Van Gogh or the myriad acts of terror that these stone agers can’t keep from committing. ‘Praise Allah’.

    Are they just too stupid to understand that it isn’t the French or California people on the street that are foisting the wars in the Middle East? Or is it just that they’re too cowardly to attempt an attack on an actual politician who votes for these wars. If they were to express their hostility (in legal ways) to the treasonous and murderous agenda of someone like Lindsey Graham, then they’d have the gratitude and respect of the entire world. But they’re much too stupid to understand that. And also, for a sniveling coward, it’s just safer and easier to shoot up some unarmed in undefended young people trying to enjoy a concert or help disabled people.

    I remember watching a speech by Gadhafi to the Arab leaders of Africa and Islam.

    it’s quite a speech. He points out the absurdity of talking about 1967 borders, (what happened to 1948 borders he rightfully points out?!)

    he talks of how it’s wrong for Islam to use force to occupy other people’s land when he said at 4:10 ‘well we occupied Andalusia unjustly and they drove us out’. That’s the kind of realtalk I can respect.

    he talks of the pathetic fatuousness for the Muslim leadership of Islam today to allow the West to ‘divide and conquer’ them by pitting the Arabs (Sunnis) against the Persians and Alawites (Shiites).

    He said inter-Muslim disputes should be settled by Muslims, not the west. He says it’s wrong for a handful of Arab elites to dominate an overwhelmingly Persian people. It sounds like to me he’s making a lot of sense, and that is why, no doubt, they murdered him.

    look at 6:37 when he talks to those utterly corrupt men about how they sit there “laughing” as Saddam was humiliated and hanged by the west (in an act that was a clear violation of international law, kangaroo court notwithstanding). And then look at Assad smugly laughing at Gadhafi.

    at 7:52 his words were very prophetic

    and I’m sure Assad has to remember his warning now with a slightly less smug arrogance

    listening to Gadhafi and knowing how well Libyans did under his rule, it looks to me like he was the best the Arabs had. And as he mentions in the video, the Arab leadership is the biggest enemy of the Arab people, because all they do is squabble over the scraps from the West. A few Western children (perhaps culled from a destroyed village in Donbas) to mollify their appetites and they’ll be happy to make nice with Bibi and the US, as Muslims are slaughtered and ravaged in Fallujah or Kandahar or Aleppo.

    Islam needs to get its house in order and stop being the bitch of Zionism- that gets them to slaughter each other so effortlessly and routinely. They need to demand the rights of all Arabs and stop sacrificing the Palestinians and any other Arabs that become inconvenient to the Zionist rabid dog, like the Iraqis, who they sacrificed to the Zio-west. They need to understand the simple things Gadhafi was saying in the video. Stop acting like corrupt stooges of the West, no matter how many British school girls the Zionists allow your people to ravage. This stone age mentality is not compatible with the people of the west, Zio-parasite notwithstanding. And one day, God / Allah be praised, we’ll all learn to live in respectful peace with each other and respecting each other’s lands and sovereignty and ways of life.

    Even if just saying those words are causing ruptured aneurysms in the cerebral arteries of Zionists everywhere

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  104. Plutocracy on the march or there is no accountability on the top

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/07/real-question-for-president-obama/

    “Questions to ask President Barack Obama the next time (also the last time) you’re invited to one of his press conferences:

    1.Which is most important to you – destroying ISIS, overthrowing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, or scoring points against Russia?
    2. Do you think that if you pointed out to the American people that Assad has done much more to aid and rescue Christians in the Middle East conflicts than any other area leader that this would lessen the hostility the United States public and media feel toward him? Or do you share the view of the State Department spokesperson who declared in September that “The Assad regime frankly is the root of all evil”?
    3. Why does the United States maintain crippling financial sanctions and a ban on military aid to Syria, Cuba, Iran and other countries but not to Saudi Arabia?
    4. What does Saudi Arabia have to do to lose its strong American support? Increase its torture, beheadings, amputations, whippings, stonings, punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, or forced marriages and other oppression of women and girls? Increase its financial support for ISIS and other jihadist groups? Confess to its role in 9/11? Attack Israel?
    5. What bothers you more: The Saudi bombing of the people of Yemen or the Syrian bombing of the people of Syria? Does the fact that ISIS never attacks Israel raise any question in your mind?
    6. Does it concern you that Turkey appears to be more intent upon attacking the Kurds and the Russians than attacking ISIS? And provides medical care to wounded ISIS soldiers? Or that ISIS deals its oil on Turkish territory? Or that NATO-member Turkey has been a safe haven for terrorists from Libya, Chechnya, Qatar and elsewhere? Or that last year Vice President Joe Biden stated that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s regime was backing ISIS with “hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of tons of weapons”?
    7. If NATO had never existed, what argument could you give today in favor of creating such an institution? Other than – as some would say – being a very useful handmaiden of U.S. foreign policy and providing American arms manufacturers with trillions of dollars of guaranteed sales.
    8. Does the United States plan on releasing any of its alleged evidence to back up its repeated claims of Syrian bombing and chemical warfare against the Syrian people? Like clear photos or videos from the omnipresent American satellite cameras? Or any other credible evidence?
    9. Does the United States plan on releasing any of its alleged evidence to back up its repeated claims of Russian invasions of Ukraine in the past year? Like clear photos or videos from the omnipresent American satellite cameras? Or any other credible evidence?
    10. Do the numerous connections between the Ukrainian government and neo-Nazis have any effect upon America’s support of Ukraine? What do you imagine would have been the outcome in World War Two if the United States had opposed Soviet entry into the war because “Stalin must go”? Would you prefer that Russia played no military role at all in Syria?
    11. Can the administration present in person a few of the Syrian opposition “moderates” we’ve heard so much about and allow the media to interview them? Have you considered honoring your promise of “No boots on the ground in Syria” by requiring all American troops to wear sneakers?”

  105. says:
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    It seemed rather suspicious that after the Russians came in directly the US then claimed it was going to double up on it’s efforts against IS along with France and now the UK joining in. If the Russians were willing to do the heavy lifting then one might think the so-called ‘coalition’ would be happy to just kick back and save themselves the expense of doing anything themselves. It seemed there was a hidden agenda in this. With the recent report of a ‘coalition’ air attack on a SAA position it seems they have other things in mind than just fighting IS. Since they haven’t been asked in by the Syrian government and don’t coordinate their actions conducted on the territory of Syria with the government they are there illegally. These same western countries are always quacking about the ‘rule of law’ yet have been lawlessly invading and bombing other countries for a long time now. All this increases the chances of more shoot-downs and clashes here and there. Pushing for incidents to occur so as to have a pretext to begin a new Cold War period might be part of the American plan. Just think of the cornucopia of contracts and money that would flow to all the beneficiaries of the war racket as a result of ratcheting up tensions. All the American munchkin-brains could be stirred up to wave the flag even as they’re robbed blind and lose even more of their civil liberties. In time the actual plan will clarify itself. As outside observers we’re not privy to the inside planning that takes place but have to piece things together ourselves as they happen.

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  106. Thanks for exposition .
    This can explain the killings of Syrian Army by American forces as claimed by Damascus
    This was then refuted by America . America didnot just disagree but laid the blames at Russian air strikes.
    This doesn’t portend well. It means that IS would be bolstered at any cost by American German British forces indirectly through decimation of Syrian forces just as it has been bolstered by Israel over the years

    [but why does IS attack US while it doesn't Israel ? It doesn't attack Saudi or Turkey unless the target is to kill Shias and empower Erdogan. Is IS working with enablers in US to turn the country more militaristic and interventionist?
    It won't be the first time that America has worked with shady organization to reach its goal.
    IS isn't the first in American achievements in asymmetric warfare against unwilling population]

    So it seems Turkey and Saudi offer direct help while West does provide much more effective indirect force by taking the enemy of the IS out .

  107. “Why does IS attack US while it doesn’t Israel ? It doesn’t attack Saudi or Turkey unless the target is to kill Shias and empower Erdogan. Is IS working with enablers in US to turn the country more militaristic and interventionist?”
    Magnificent questions that contain some obvious answers.

  108. says:
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    I hope you’re wrong, because Russia will go nuclear over Syria.

    The west just does not understand the centuries of ties and history that bind Moscow and Damascus together.

  109. The following “anti-ISIS”campaign will be Putin bombing ISIS & associates whereas America/France/Britain bombing Asad using MSM telling the world that that’s “ISIS”. It will then be kinda of attrition warfare to see who is the last man standing.

    All in all, America instead of Russia is having an upper hand here, particularly in the long run, because America, using NATO (notablely Tuekey, UK, France) as a pawn, spends far less than Russia in Syria than what Putin is currently spending while having economy X times over the Russians’.

    Doing nothing extra as it goes Putin will loss in the end, unless he can pull out some extra cards:

    1. ask Asad to invite Iranian formal army in. Iran would have far better finance than Russia if it can manage to sell its huge oil/gas to China (i.e. China indirectly finance the campaign)

    2. move small tactical nukes into Syria. Nuke Turkey-Syria border ISIS & associates. There’s a risk of WW3 there, but the US won’t do a thing as it won’t risk a war for Turkey despite all the “outrage” and the rest of NATO (France, Germany and UK) and the world at large probably would open a bottle of champaign behind doors. The good thing out of this is that, if NATO refuses to react, then literally all of the canon fodders of the US in the region (the Turks and Saudis) would likely to shut up for at least some decades to come. Some former Soviets leaders would have used this step, but Putin unlikely. Putin is somehow still very weak fantasising that he can “convince” the US ( and the Western mass who btw on average are either retards or completely ignorant/indifferent on the matter) who is tightening the screw day by day on Russia.

    3. ask China to join in by sending in PLA, but that’s unlikely. China has been already financing Putin on this by having prepaid a huge sum of gas money upfront recently.

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  110. @In general, contemporary “West” is run by lawyers and journos…products of US (or Western in general) so called “elite” humanities and liberal arts degree mills

    Aren’t these the “Smatterers” so masterfully described by Solzhenitsyn in his essay in the 1975 collective volume “From under the rubble”? The spawn of the Komintern rebranded “The International Community”? Ideological heirs of Trotsky, Zinoviev (Apfelbaum=Applebaum), Joffe. Now do really the military “experts” Kagan (Bobby, Freddy and Kim) have any military experience other than the ones gleaned from the “course on ‘The Origins of War’, “one of the university’s most popular courses for twenty-five years”(of course) given by Daddy Donald, “Sterling Professor of Classics and History at Yale University—a title reserved for only the few most accomplished academics at Yale” (of course), whose “seminal four-volume history of the Peloponnesian War induced people to fall into “The temptation to acclaim Kagan’s four volumes as the foremost work of history produced in North America in this century is vivid” (of course), as acclaimed by Francis George Steiner, “a French-born (of Jewish ethnicity- Wikipedia) American literary critic, essayist, philosopher, novelist, and educator, “polyglot and polymath”, one of “the great minds in today’s literary world.”
    Waiting for your expansion on the subject on your blog. BTW I made the same remark as you in a comment on another blog: What France really needs is a new Jeanne D’Arc! Aux armes….Last year I visited Mont Saint Michel.

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  111. […] The Unz Review | 5 December 2015 […]

  112. This bill needs more co-sponsors…

    Perhaps you wouldn’t mind telling us how many congressman currently support this bill, so we can get a sense of whether there are sufficient votes (>218) to pass.

    Given who runs the show in Congress, I’m surprised these two individuals even came forward with this proposed bill.

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  113. KA [AKA "sibir khan"]
    says:
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    According to Richard Pipes’s , Russia under the Old Regime,page 1-” In the earliest times for which we have any evidence ,the heartland of Russia-the forest zone in the middle of which lies the city of Moscow-was populated by peoples of Finnic and Lithuanian stock,while adjacent to the east and south were by Turks.
    The Russian first migrated to this territory towards the end of first millennium of the Christian era.”
    According to Pipes:Slavic people lived in an ill defined area bounded by present day Belarus,Carpathina mountain in the south and Vistula or Oder to the west . Following the collapse of the Roman empire the undifferentiated mass of Slav people started disintegrating . They moved to Balkan ,between Black sea and Baltic .Slav broke into 3 segments-east,west,and south. The eastern branch later gave rise to Russian.

    Massive population growth in 17 century forced Russian to make wars in quest of land to feed its population. 16th century population breakdown could give some ideas of the growth- 8-10 millions Russian compared to 20 million in Austria, 19 French and 11 million in Spain in 16th century . Between 1750 and 1850 population increased 4 fold in Russia to 50 millions forcing land grab and expansion which brought 10 millions non Russian in its midst.
    Population would continue to increase after 1850 giving rise to 124 million in 1897 and 170 million in 1914,
    page 13.

    Contrary to popular belief in this site, it was Russia that had been attempting to colonize Siberia,steppe and Crimea for centuries .Not the Tartars or Olga Turks or the Siberian Golden Horde remnant .Crimea was at different times owned by Venice,by Goth,by Persian, by Cuman Kipchak confederation . Crimea was conquered by Russia and the inhabitants were thrown out or expelled .
    Expulsion of native Asian from their ancestral land by the Russians to house its 18 millions citizen was the main feature of Russian expansion in 19th century .(page 15 )

    Golden Horde went to the gate of Poland and ransacked Muscow but Russian presence on Kazan or Siberian land mass or in s steppe was never intrinsic part of Russian or Slavic people. These lands were already occupied by shaman believing Mongol-Turkic-Kumon -Ughiyre people .
    Thier faith later would change to both to Christianity and Islam depending on the location .

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  114. Hi Geo,

    As I said before, I’m not an expert on procedure, but I’ll give it a shot. This bill is considered to have a very slim chance of passing, but it’s more complicated than your question. Much is “at the discretion of” the Speaker of the House. (Maybe even whether it’s sent to committee?)

    When an MOC (Member of Congress) introduces a bill, he/she submits it to the clerks, who give it a number. Then the Speaker refers it to committee. For H.R. 4108, the primary committee is Armed Services, with 63 members, including c-sponsors Tulsi Gabbard and Austin Scott. They debate it, and if it’s “voted out of committee” it goes to the House floor for final consideration. (Even if successful, an equivalent bill must also pass the Senate before going to the President.)

    Two Reps. introduced this, (a Rep. & a Dem.) and one more MOC signed on as co-sponsor, so now there are 3. I’m not sure what the time limit is for more MOC’s to co-sponsor. The more there are, the more likely to get thru committee and maybe pass on the floor. (Of course, it would also be useful to have friends on the relevant committee.)

    This little bill will not solve all our problems, but it could make for useful debate about Syria, Russia, ISIS and regime change, on the record. I like Sam’s term, ‘incrementalist’.
    Thanks for asking, and I will update when I have more info. Here’s a link to the official explanation–

    https://www.congress.gov/legislative-process/introduction-and-referral-of-bills

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  115. Interesting analysis and suggestions, I would not grossly disagree with anything you wrote. But let me give a small criticism.

    Firstly, the PLA could keep US busy not by joining the fray in Syria, then by keeping the US busy in its part of the World. Despite all US claims, it is not possible for the US to manage a wide-scale conflict in two totally different parts of the World. Therefore, China needs only wrestle with US in the SCS to help Russia.

    Secondly, it is true that NATO, even without the US, is a much bigger economy than Russia. However, there is another extremely important factor – the willingness of the population to endure hardship. The Russians have a historical advantage in this, but I am wondering how much the current Russian generations would be willing to temporarily sacrifice comfort for freedom.

    Thirdly, I do agree (have been predicting since Russia got in to help Syria) that the Syrian military intervention will turn into an attrition war between the Coalition of the Sponsors of Terrorism and Russia, but you are considering only the health of Russia and completely disregarding the possibility that US could shut-down shop (military not paid etc). The US economy lives purely on the debt steroid and its collapse could be imminent: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-07/peter-schiff-warns-whole-economy-has-imploded-collapse-coming. It is, actually, a bit of a miracle that the US economy is still stumbling along debt drunk, but it is waiting for some unknown disturbance to collapse. This disturbance could be something like the forthcoming US interest rate increase, or something else.

    Also, I am not keen on your suggestion on tactical nukes, because no matter how small the nukes are – they are a threshold not to be crossed. They all may get used in the end, not only the tactical ones, but I would prefer not started by Russia as a preventative measure, as you suggested.

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  116. So how did Turkic tribes from Uyguristan end up in Constantinople ?
    Care to explain ?
    And what happened to the indigenous peoples of Asia Minor after nomad Turkic tribes from Uyguristan invaded ?

  117. I was getting all set to bitchslap your lying mouth, but, hey! I’m late to the party. Tell you what, though: get up, let the shame die away, and tell some more lies. Maybe I’ll get here in time to mock you without feeling like I’m piling on.

  118. Oh, this one is one of my favorites. The US had elint ships in the Black Sea at the time of the shootdown. It’s not really giving away anything to say, “Our elint ships have radar.” Jesus, you’re just dumber than a bag of hammers. And at least hammers aren’t motivated by malice. Or are you bought and paid for?

  119. RobinG, I appreciate your effort to support the said resolution, you should definitely try. Unfortunately, the Congress is under total Zionist control and the chances are not high. But, I would like to bring to your attention an effort by Ronald Thomas West, who sent an open letter to 10 members of the German Bundestag, about the Turkish crimes in Syria, especially the sarin gas attack in the Damascus suburb of Ghouta and murder of about 1,000 Syrian civilians, a false-flag organized by Turkish intelligence MIT to be blamed on Assad: http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/12/07/send-a-letter/ Once the true perpetrator was discovered, the Western MSM has shoved this event down the memory hole.

    You may also wish to read comments under http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/putin-must-seek-justice-for-peshkov/. I will put Ronald’s letter on other comments boards and distribute it among friends.

  120. Thanks for clarifying the process, RobinG.

    …so now there are 3…

    As I suspected, a few “renegade” congress critters are permitted to display what these institutions were originally meant to do: debate in an open and honest manner the issues that confront the nation. But let’s not kid ourselves, that’s as far as it will go.

    I like Sam’s term, ‘incrementalist’.

    The problem with the “incrementalist” approach both you and Sam favour is this: the stranglehold the Zionists/Israel firsters have over the institutions of power is so strong, this approach would take a thousand years to overcome.

    As long as representatives get elected every 2 years, presidents every 4 years, and senators every 6 years, and prodigious amounts of funding are required in these never-ending election cycles, those who make the largest contributions will always have these pols in their pockets.

    This, along with the concentration of media ownership in a few hands, are the two biggest issues confronting the American republic. I just don’t think an incrementalist approach can address these issues. That’s why I’m in favour of a “root and branch” approach.

  121. KA [AKA "sibir khan"]
    says:
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    Siberia was never muslim . It was populated by shaman believing Turkic people who constituted the large mass of the population related to Mongol,Ughir,Finn and possibly the Avar. Siberia name comes from Sibir Khan who was pagan.

    The Kuman or Pechenegs Turks settled in western Siberia before 10th century.
    Interestingly Turkic Khazar of Crimea was approached for conversion to Christianity by eastern empire of Constantinople in 9th century when the pagan ruler of Kiev was trying to gain influence of Crimean Tartar .Eastern Empire would conquer and occupy Crimea by 12 th century .. Religious practices were fluid at that time in Hungary,Bulgaria,Kiev Lithuania . Lithuania occupied Little Russia the original home of Rus and Little Russia returned to paganism under Lithuania in 1315.

    Rus arrived in 9th century from Sweden .They mingled and merged with Slavic population living in the area corresponding to current Ukraine and Belarus eventually dominating the rest. Holy Roman Empire would conduct crusade against this pagan Slavic people for economical reason in 1096 and 1147 .

    Migrations and religious interconversion have been an integral part of this area for a long time .

  122. […] ‘Washington moving from war on terror to regime change in Syria’ 28. The Unz Review: The Saker, Week Nine of the Russian Intervention in Syria: The Empire Strikes Back. 29. The Daily Telegraph (UK): Boris Johnson, Let’s deal with the Devil: we should work with […]

  123. Schiff is only theoritically correct, but in reality the US still has many tools to shear sheep for “wool” (euro, yen, saudi dinar, Tawanese $, etc) to delay it for the moment.

    Thing is that none of the US, Russia and China will send in ground troops for different reasons. Without ground troops, air bombing solves nothing and will likely cripple Putin first in the long run due to economic reasons.

    The US therefore is using Turkey in the ME against Russia (and the EU!! – the more chaotic the ME becomes, the more trouble the EU will have, the weaker the euro, the more dependent Germany/france will be on the US$ and the US) the same way it uses Japan and Phillippine against China in SCS. This is the favorate and perhaps the only geopolitical trick that the US has known and has been using for quite some decades. Dilusionally over-ambitious natures of Turkey, Japan and Phillipines are just ideal fuels on top of it.

    Turkey sending troops to Irak is a test-water move by the US/Israel. If Turkey eventually sends in large troops in either Irak or Syria, Putin, as far as I see, will be forced to bring in Iran – the only power in the region that can balance out the Turks on the ground at the moment.

    Alternatively, if in the long run both Russia(for economic, strategic reasons), the EU(economic & strategic) and China (economic & strategic / One Road One Belt) want to rid off once for good the “divide & conquer”of the geopolitical/energy/economic meddling of the US in the region via Turkey/Saudi/ISIS, one thing they can consider is to co-build a man-made canal from the Black Sea to the Med through Bulgaria(EU), taking Turkey out of the equation entirely, or at least all sides will have options making “must-have” statue of Turkey’s NATO and EU membership that the cocky Turks are currently taking for granted irrelevant. Without the Turks, the US allies in the Gulf won’t be able to make a sound with their negative IQ, therefore the long-term strategy of US/Israel will fail. To be able to dig this canal, Germany has to rid off its US occupation troops first though and becomes independent.

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  124. Are they just too stupid to understand that it isn’t the French or California people on the street that are foisting the wars in the Middle East?

    Rurik, I’m pretty sure that Muslim people understand that perfectly well.

    I can’t quite fathom why it is that you realize that 9/11 was a false flag, that Muslims didn’t do it, yet still believe all these lesser events are what they are described as. These are staged false flags.

    I can’t prove it to you, mind you, but I’m pretty sure the killing of Theo Van Gogh, which you mentioned also — that was a false flag as well. That was over ten years ago and I was less aware back then. But think about it. At that point in time the Dutch population was very antiwar and didn’t want anything to do with these ziocon military adventures. But shortly after the Theo Van Gogh incident, the Dutch government sent troops to Afghanistan, which probably would have been politically impossible without this.

    When these events happen with near perfect timing for the warmongers, shouldn’t it set off warning flags for you?

  125. Two points.

    1. Solzhenitsyn didn’t invent term “obrazovantsy” but merely, as usual, used (stole) by deriving it from a widely used and known term “obrazovanshina” (after famous opera “Khovanshina”) which was in use since at least 1950s. It was widely used especially in the teachers’ environment. In general, I wouldn’t use Solzhenitsyn for any references to Soviet/Russian history. Ironically, Solzhenitsyn qualifies perfectly for this very “obrazovanshina” phenomenon. I do, however, agree with the application of this classification to contemporary Western “academe” in both military (national security) and international relations fields, among several others.

    2. Your point about Peloponnese Wars is valid but, in general, these are not only neocons who suffer from referring to irrelevancy when dealing with the military history–it is a general state of the contemporary Western, especially Anglo-sphere, “academe”. Too many people have Ph.Ds in “Strategy” and too few among them have any serious tactical and operational experience which is crucial for formation of the appropriate framework. That is why, like in the Wheel Of Fortune game, this “academe” can sometimes guess all letters correctly but still, in 99% of the cases fails to read the word (not my analogy–I stole it from somewhere, don’t remember where).

    I will expand on those issues when I have the time. Hopefully, pretty soon.

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  126. yes, excellent point JR,

    And I do usually have my antenna tweaking all the time. I don’t buy the Sandy Hook thing or the Boston Bombing thing. That dude with the blown off leg was a vet who didn’t have either legs, the one he had for the “bombing” pictures was prosthetic. Many more anomalies, like the fact that they were running a drill for a bombing right when it happened!

    So yea.

    As for the latest ones in Paris and California, I don’t know.

    They could be false flags of course, but then too, it doesn’t suit their agenda in a lot of ways. The Paris bombing might just be the incident that hands France over to Le Pen and removes that critical country from the insidious tentacles of the Oligarchs. How is that to their advantage? Same with the Van Gogh murder, it created some resistance to the destruction of Europe through massive Muslim immigration.

    For the Zionists, the destruction of Europe is even more important than the destruction of Muslim countries. Jews like Sheldon Adelson and William Kristol and Rothschild are far more filled with simmering hatred for the white Christians who did (or didn’t stop) the Holocaust than for the Muslims who they look down on and torment for the fun of it. But they consider Europe an existential threat because of what happened in the last century. So anything that drives France away from immigration insanity is not part of their agenda.

    So I don’t know. Are they playing a game now by allowing some Western nations to resist their fundamental agenda of displacing whitey just in order to consolidate enough anti-Muslim sentiment to get whitey to destroy Syria utterly and Iran too and on and on?

    I don’t know.

    For all I know Donald Trump may be a stalking horse, (Trojan horse, whatever) for their designs by getting America to elect an overtly militaristic strong man who is nothing more than a uber-Zionist sleeper? I don’t know.

    Is this government completely corrupt and capable of anything? Absofuckinglutely. They (at the highest levels, not the gal at the post office) did 911 didn’t they, and look what they’ve done to the Middle East and Ukraine.

    Are Muslims capable of terrorist acts or shooting or bombing people in a temper tantrum of rage? ISIS and the head slicers do it all day long.

    >>>warning graphic and disturbing picture<<<

    http://rusvesna.su/recent_opinions/1447757243

    so for me it isn't like Muslims are all way too humane to harm innocent Christians

    the KLA was slaughtering Serbians when they decided they wanted their land

    these acts of Muslim terrorists are all too real

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

    so I'm not of the opinion that radical Muslims are incapable of murderous acts of terrorism against civilians.

    But I plan to keep an open mind as far as the latest ones go. If the California 'terrorist' attack is just another false flag, then I'll have to come here and give you kudos for the fine tuning on your antenna.

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  127. The US therefore is using Turkey in the ME against Russia (and the EU!! – the more chaotic the ME becomes, the more trouble the EU will have, the weaker the euro, the more dependent Germany/france will be on the US$ and the US) the same way it uses Japan and Phillippine against China in SCS. This is the favorate and perhaps the only geopolitical trick that the US has known and has been using for quite some decades.

    yep

    I rather think the fall of the dollar is the more likely scenario for the world to survive the ravages of Rothschild’s Fed- before we could hope for the canal scenario. But I’d be on board for either one, come what may..

  128. As for the latest ones in Paris and California, I don’t know.

    Well, yes, these things should be studied on a case by case basis. But if your stance is that you don’t know, then it doesn’t seem right to argue on the basis of the assumption that the people they say did it (Muslims) actually did it. That certainly is not the case with 9/11.

    You make a valid point that the Islamophobia agenda and the mass immigration agenda seem to be contradictory. I would make the point that the elites are made up of different factions, so they do different things that seem contradictory at different times. Also, it may not be contradictory, properly understood. They bring in a bunch of Muslim immigrants and then convince you that these people are evil and terrorists, or some of them anyway. And then they tell you that you need all this surveillance and a police state because you have all these Muslim terrorists running around…. so there could well be method to the perceived madness (or seeming contradiction).

    Are Muslims capable of terrorist acts or shooting or bombing people in a temper tantrum of rage?

    Well, sure, Muslims are capable of any evil act that Christians or any other humans are. But that they (or some of them) are capable of doing X is hardly proof that they did X. (It would be if they were the only people capable of doing X, but they’re not.) At any rate, these things should be studied on a case by case basis.

    ISIS and the head slicers do it all day long.

    I think you ought to look into this claim. I’m not saying that ISIS are nice people, mind you, but these decapitation videos are fake, Rurik. These ISIS people are criminals, but think about this: what is their incentive for putting up videos on the internet of themselves doing these things? Doesn’t this seem fishy to you?

    It seemed fishy to me, but it took me a long while to actually sit down and watch one of these beheading videos. A few months ago, for the first time, I decided I had to watch one of those beheading videos, because I was getting contradictory information as to whether the videos were authentic. Also, common sense kind of says they aren’t because it’s one thing to kill people. (Why not?) But it’s another thing to behead them, which is extra work when you have guns. (I consider it a hassle to carve a Turkey at Christmastime… beheading a bunch of people when you could just shoot them seems like quite a serious hassle to me…) And it’s yet another thing to behead people and make videos of it, thus portraying yourselves as savages. (Even if you are savages, why make videos of your savagery and distribute it on the net?)

    Finally I watched one and, Rurik, the whole thing is totally fake. You see, the thing is a bluff. Very few people will actually watch the beheading videos to judge for themselves whether they are real, because people naturally have great trepidation about seeing some people’s heads actually being chopped off. But what to do? Don’t worry. It’s all fake. On this page is a much-cited video of ISIS people beheading Christians on a beach somewhere:

    http://libyanwarthetruth.com/isis-beheading-video-libya-hoax

    I think that, at the two minute mark or so, there is at least one of these guys, supposedly about to be beheaded, who is trying his best to keep a straight face…

    But, anyway, think about this a second. No matter how evil you think these ISIS people are, why would any political movement create videos that portray themselves as villains straight out of a comic book? As evil as you likely think Soviet Russia was under Stalin, or Germany under Hitler, what do you think those regimes’ propaganda looked like? They portrayed themselves as all sweetness and light, wonderful people building a bright new future. They would portray their enemies as a bunch of deranged, sadistic evil people. But themselves?

    So who is making these fake videos?

    so for me it isn’t like Muslims are all way too humane to harm innocent Christians

    That’s true, but any Muslim would tell you that from POV, it’s not like Christians are all way too humane to harm innocent Muslims. And he’d be just as right as the above, so…

    It’s hard to study all these things case by case and come to conclusions. It’s time consuming. The beheading video I watched, I downloaded it and showed it to people who started talking to me about “those barbaric muslims” to point out it was fake. Some people refuse to watch the video, even though you assure them it’s fake. Others pretend to watch it and claim they can’t tell it’s fake. Others admit this video is an obvious fake but claim that other beheading videos are real. (I doubt it, because if there were real beheading videos, why would they need to make a fake one like that one at considerable expense? And again, why behead all these people when you can just shoot them? Why all the macabre theater?)

    But look, I can only re-iterate what I said before, which is that, if you’ve made the appropriate study of 9/11 (and I know that you have) and you have concluded that the Muslims were framed for that (and I know you know that) I don’t see why you would just automatically assume that every atrocious act being attributed to Muslims is really done by Muslims. It’s not a question of saying Muslims are saints. They’re not. Christians aren’t either. That’s not the point. But when you’ve got the biggest single thing attributed to Muslims and it’s obviously a frame-up job, common sense would tell you (I think…) that you should be very skeptical about any later claims about Muslims having done this, that or the other thing.

  129. I don’t see why you would just automatically assume that every atrocious act being attributed to Muslims is really done by Muslims.

    you should be very skeptical about any later claims about Muslims having done this, that or the other thing.

    I agree with you totally on the fake beheading videos JR, but I don’t think all the videos are faked. The one for instance where the Nursra [sp] Front guy eats the soldier’s liver, or whatever it was, I don’t think was faked. I suspect the one where the Jordanian pilot was burned alive was real. Or just look at all the pictures that come out of there with the barbaric scenes of torturing of these men (and boys) before they shoot them

    http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Syrian-Rebels.png

    I’m pretty sure these are authentic pictures

    I think they make them because they’re sub-humans without any sense of compassion, and they think making videos like that will scare their enemies, because that’s how pathetic these guys actually are. Can Christians also act this way? Of course they can. That infamous video of those American soldiers machine gunning those Iraqi men were acting like pure sub-human animals IMHO.

    like you said, we should take them all on a case by case

    Islamophobia agenda and the mass immigration agenda seem to be contradictory. I would make the point that the elites are made up of different factions, so they do different things that seem contradictory at different times. Also, it may not be contradictory, properly understood.

    actually I don’t think they’re two different elites per se. I’ve said before that I consider Zionism a dual pillared movement being done simultaneously. – Racially pure state for Jews and opposite for everyone else; especially with importation of massive non-white immigration into white countries to destroy for all time any possibility that the Holocaust can ever happen again.

    Perhaps if you’re a Jew, that makes sense to you.

    But if you’re a Palestinian being hard-genocided, or a German or Swede being soft-genocided, not so much

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  130. says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    Agree. Interestingly enough there is much debate here in UK amongst ordinary Britons. regarding what Syria is really about, a great deal of respect for Putin. The duplicity of Turkey and in particular the oil sales from ISIS are I agree something Russia needs to keep hammering home, it is getting talked about as is are the reasons behind our late involvement in Syria.
    Although much of this does not make the western media it is there.
    A recent poll in the UK found Putin had a much higher rating of trust than any UK politician.

  131. You are right. I was just using his description which is nevertheless accurate (and I had myself firsthand knowledge of the category in another communist country, where they were “dissidents”, anti-Stalinist and anti-Russian, who after the “fall of communism” came out of the closet and revealed that they have always been staunch “anti-Communist”, resisting it by writing “romans a clef” or studying the birth of democracy in Ancient Greece. The filled in droves the ranks of the “Civil Society”, and the “Open Society Foundation”, some founding their own sub foundations with “European” help, etc – rewarded with PHDs – even Professorships – at “prestigious” Western Universities). Perhaps a better description would be “intelligentsia” which covers also the Western “Academe”.
    Otherwise I am aware of the shortcomings of S. Even the “Archipelago” and the rather disappointing “200 years” fall short.

  132. Some things to consider:

    Erdogan’s ideology includes both pan-islamism (sunni) and pan-turkism.

    The great majority of the millions of affiliated muslims in Russia are sunni and the majority are turkic.

    This is true for China as well.

    The largest minority in Iran are the turkic Azeris, and Iran’s neighbour to the North is Azerbaijan. Which is the closest to Turkey of the turkic nations however the azeri turks are mostly shia.

    The independent stans of central asia (Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan) are turkic, and sunni (when religious).

    There are approximately as many turkics as there are russians.

    The turkics tend to be more attracted to heterodox sufism than to fundamentalist islam.

    The power shift in Islam moved from the arabs to the turkics, especially after the Mongol conquests. Turkics came to be regarded as the Sword of Islam and founded the Ottoman, Safavid and Mughal dynasties of Turkey, Iran and India respectively. These were the last three main dynasties of the muslim world.

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  133. @Erdogan’s ideology includes both pan-islamism (sunni) and pan-turkism

    This is the key to open the “riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma” of the Turkish actions, to paraphrase the famous say of Churchill about the actions of Russia (which people took as a profound wisdom describing the character of the Russians, the famous “slavic soul”). Actually, Churchill uttered this rhetorical stunt in a parliamentary speech in October 1939, in which he was trying to explain why the negotiations undertaken with Russia in 1939 in view of building a coalition against Nazi Germany for the sake of protecting Poland, dragged on and ended in failure, leading to the Soviet-Nazi Pact of August 1939 and the occupation of Poland by both Germany and Russia. He added: “but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest.”
    Erdogan acted in the Turkish national interest (which happened to be in sink with the plans of the US/Israel). Their stunt was really intended to piss off the Russians in Crimea and Ukraine (the concomitant sabotage of the power lines in Ukraine by the “brother Tatars”, fully endorsed by the Chocolate King, shows that the intention was to stir up troubles in Ukraine and the rest of the Turkic world (inside Russia itself). Turkey would have present itself as the protector of the “rights” of Turk (men) peoples trampled on by the Russians. I personally stick to my own interpretation. The pilots were to be taken prisoners and make a media circus in order to blackmail the Russians. The immediate rescue of the living pilot in a lightning Spetznaz operation botched the whole operation, exposing the direct involvement of Turkish operatives in what was supposed to be a righteous rebellion of the Turkmen “brothers” against kaffir oppression bolstered by the “illegal” actions of Russia. The media in the Eastern colonies of EU was of jubilation at the “daring” action of Turkey which “slapped Putin over the eyes”!

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  134. @Zionism a dual pillared movement being done simultaneously

    That’s why the term Anglo-Zionism is a better definition of the movement.

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  135. I agree with you totally on the fake beheading videos JR, but I don’t think all the videos are faked. The one for instance where the Nursra [sp] Front guy eats the soldier’s liver, or whatever it was, I don’t think was faked. I suspect the one where the Jordanian pilot was burned alive was real. Or just look at all the pictures that come out of there with the barbaric scenes of torturing of these men (and boys) before they shoot them

    I believe in this Syrian mess there are horrible atrocities taking place. For real. However, there are also other people, with significant propaganda production capabilities, who are making fake atrocity videos. And then the western mainstream media points to those fake videos, like the beheading videos, as real. In short, there’s a real mindfuck going on here.

    But I think the issue we’re sort of skirting around here is this one: what is the connection with the Islamic religion? Not long ago, I watched Godfather 1 and Godfather 2 again — not the whole thing, but zapping to the best parts. Does anybody watch these movies, that portray these violent criminals of southern Italian origin, and say: look what violent bastards Roman Catholics are! We shouldn’t let any more Catholics into the country! Look at them! (And never mind if it’s Catholics from Poland, say, who have nothing to do with the Italian mafia. So people are saying there are these Arab terrorists and it’s Islam, so we shouldn’t let in Moslems, even from Malaysia, say, where they’re Moslems but completely different people…)

    Now, granted, there are enough good reasons not to allow mass immigration from third world countries that there is no reason to bring the religion red herring into it. This latest San Bernardino thing is a hoax and the Muslim couple were patsies, as usual. All the violence is prety much one way with the Muslims on the receiving end. The atrocities in Syria are, at root, caused by the Zio-captured western governments, that have fomented the civil war there. And they destroyed a perfectly well functioning State in Libya, leaving chaos. And so on.

    As for the rest of your post, you’re quite right that the Zionist power elite is very much in favor of mass immigration and push all the multi-culturalism stuff because they think that a fragmented society is much less likely to provide any cohesive resistance to them. I’m pretty sure of that. All the islamophobia is also a Zionist project. The purpose of that is to convince people that Israel’s enemies are their enemies. Yes, it’s true that the demonizing of Muslims and the multi-colored-rainbow Kumbaya multiculturalism are in contradiction to one another, but you know… that’s competing agendas…

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  136. […] original source of this article is The Unz Review Copyright © The Saker, The Unz Review, 2015 Posted in FEATURED, GUEST AUTHOR, Russia, Syria, ISIL/ISIS/IS, MIDDLE EAST and Tagged […]

  137. {The immediate rescue of the living pilot in a lightning Spetznaz operation botched the whole operation, }

    According to various reports there was no involvement of Russian ground troops.
    The rescue was organized and carried out by Syrian commandos and Iranian Revolutionary Guards. Russia provided location of the pilot, satellite imagery, enemy signals jamming, etc. …
    The operation was reportedly personally supervised by IRGC General Qasem Soleimani.

    This sounds more plausible, since Iranians and certainly Syrians had men on the ground already and undoubtedly know the terrain better.

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  138. Anglo-Zionism is a better definition of the movement.

    I don’t know Seraphim,

    I agree that it’s been the British aristocracy (and British bankers like Rothschild) that have been in cahoots with the Zionists for most of the last two centuries anyways, even when the aspirations of Zionism were just seeds in the fertile minds of men like Benjamin Disraeli or Theodor Herzl later on. But today it seems to me that the sycophantic genuflecting of the British royal family and even more so, by the office of the Prime Minister to the whims and will of the world’s Zionists notwithstanding, that the leadership of this movement is hardly being foisted by the Brits, except as eager and willing mouthpieces and sock puppets.

    Unlike Israel, England is being ravaged by the second pillar of Zionism. The ethnic cleasing of the indigenous population from its ancient lands and the concurrent spiritual emasculation of the population as “racists” in order to make this transformation possible. The case of the British school girls in Rotherham being a fine case in point.

    So insofar as the elites of England are perfectly willing to go along with all the ravages of uber-Zionism in the world today, (so long as they’re bribed with a constant supply of little boys culled from these conflicts), I don’t see them as the central motivation. They’re just human barnacles along for the ride, as their people are displaced and their country sent reeling into ethnic strife and eventual warfare for as far into the future horizon as can be imagined.

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  139. there’s a real mindfuck going on here.

    when hasn’t there been JR?

    they marched us into Europe in 1917 all based on lies, and the ravages of those wars are still being felt. Today they’re just much better at it. It’s all scientific and they use focus groups and behavioral science fundamentals. All the stuff that was glimmered during the Soviet era on brainwashing and manipulative psychology and all the rest have not been forgotten or discarded. Hardly. They’ve only tweaked and added Madison Avenue polish so most of us can’t even see it. The Matrix is real ; )

    But I think the issue we’re sort of skirting around here is this one: what is the connection with the Islamic religion?

    I’ve always said there’s nothing wrong with Islam. It suits the people of the Middle East and Africa and Indonesia and elsewhere. If seems to fill a niche in their souls, and why not? All (most) of the Muslims I’ve known are wonderful people. The main problem that the West has with Islam is the way the Zio-occupied west has been relentlessly bombing and murdering and torturing and genociding Muslims in appalling ways. Droning weddings and sending munitions to drop white phosphorous on children in Gaza. That sort of thing.

    And then as they’re creating these enemies right and left, they’re inviting them into the working class sections of the home countries that are foisting these wars. What I don’t know is who the Zionists hate more? The Arabs and Persians, or the Europeans? I suspect they hate the Euros more. There’s no hate in this world like envy hate.

    (btw, my girlfriend says I know every word of the Godfather movies one and two verbatim, and can speak the words they’re speaking “Leave the gun. Take the cannoli’s” right along with the actors ; )

    so we shouldn’t let in Moslems, even from Malaysia, say, where they’re Moslems but completely different people…)

    Now, granted, there are enough good reasons not to allow mass immigration from third world countries that there is no reason to bring the religion red herring into it.

    you answered your own question

    Having a country is like having a home. It’s yours by the grace of the God’s and your ancestors and your hard work. No one is entitled to move into it just because they want to. They should have to be invited and with a good reason. Like you need some help or some skills. But as the West is under the occupation of Zionists who viscerally hate them/us and consider them/us all to be Nazis in waiting, we’re being inundated with unwelcome invaders instead of invited guests. The agenda is to render us all competing individuals or tribes of ethnicities working and paying taxes like human farm animals and consuming like good Americans while they use our children for cannon fodder and for social experiments in human strife. They’re like Roman elites watching gladiatorial games, as they foist wars and strife and hostilities between us. It’s often for no better reason than for their amusement.

    http://www.therightplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Hillary-We-Came-We-Saw-He-Died.png

    This latest San Bernardino thing is a hoax and the Muslim couple were patsies, as usual.

    don’t know if you noticed but our mutual friend Sam has said he’s pretty sure of the same thing. Said now he has to revisit 911.

    All the violence is prety much one way with the Muslims on the receiving end. The atrocities in Syria are, at root, caused by the Zio-captured western governments, that have fomented the civil war there. And they destroyed a perfectly well functioning State in Libya, leaving chaos. And so on.

    I agree JR. But look at them. Look at the way they swoop in like jackals and hyenas as soon as one of their own is being attacked by the Zio-west. It’s disgusting to watch as Turkey looms like a cowardly vulture over the pickings of Syria. Waiting for the hyenas to finish feeding so they can peck at the carcass. Where’s their honor?!

    Syria, like Libya is a victim of the Fiend, and there’s Saudi Arabia like a subservient dog to the Jewish/Zio-West who has them on their list as soon as Iran and some others are dispatched. It looks more like a feeding frenzy of wild animals than a region of the world who’re supposed to be devout and tolerant Muslims who say as-salamu alaykum to each other. When contemplating their enemies, Islam also needs to look in a mirror.

    Yes, it’s true that the demonizing of Muslims and the multi-colored-rainbow Kumbaya multiculturalism are in contradiction to one another, but you know… that’s competing agendas…

    I guess that’s where the fun part is. Watching them bite their tail as they all feed on each other’s greed and hate. I used to think is was funny to watch the Bar and the AMA fight each other over things like tort reform. Behemoths of greed and corruption having at it. Like those pictures of a python that’s swallowed an alligator, and then bursts. That’s how this theater of the absurd looks to me. Like spoiled children on acid these competing interests, be it big Oil or Zionism or MIC, or what have you, duking it out for advantage.

    Just imagine how the Saudis feel as the Zio-NATO tells them they’re going to collapse the price of oil to punish Putin. Or how the King of Jordan is ordered around like a dog by some petty western bureaucrat. There’s definitely a lot to sit back and enjoy with a nice bag of popcorn.

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  140. there’s a real mindfuck going on here.

    when hasn’t there been JR?

    There always has been, I suppose, but it seems to be much more intensified now. I mean, just in the past year or so, they have just ramped up these false flags. It seems to be one staged psy-op after another now.

    they marched us into Europe in 1917 all based on lies,

    Back then they were mostly demonizing Germans. The German soldiers were bayoneting Belgian babies, right? (Except they weren’t…) If that shit was going on now with the internet, we’d have fake baby bayoneting videos. Just imagine. You’d have actors speaking English wish cheesy German accents giving speeches (in English to newborn Belgian babies) before bayoneting them.

    AND people would believe it!

    But look at them. Look at the way they swoop in like jackals and hyenas as soon as one of their own is being attacked by the Zio-west. It’s disgusting to watch as Turkey looms like a cowardly vulture over the pickings of Syria. Waiting for the hyenas to finish feeding so they can peck at the carcass. Where’s their honor?!

    Okay, that’s true, but that’s the various governments doing that stuff. The ordinary people there have no more say in this than ordinary Americans have in what their government does.

    But, look, a lot of what is so disheartening about talking to people on these pages (I don’t mean you personally, Rurik, you’re one of the more reasonable people here, but in general) is just this kind of rigid kind of black-and-white thinking of people, where there is no nuance or anything.

    A great example is these articles by that guy, Fred Reed, who has retired in some town in Mexico. Every once in a while, he writes some article basically saying that Mexicans are okay folks. (Who he’s doing this for exactly, I don’t know, since I don’t need to be told that, I know Mexicans are nice people basically, and the other people, with their visceral fear and loathing of Mexicans — the racists basically — can’t be told this, so, who’s he talking to?)

    But anyway, he writes his intermittent boilerplate article saying that Mexicans are basically okay and he gets jumped on because he apparently supports mass migration of Mexicans to the U.S. Did Fred Reed ever say that he supported mass immigration? But the basic problem is that, for these reptilian types, they can’t handle nuance, so they reason that if Freddy doesn’t share their pathological fear and loathing of Mexicans, then Fred must utterly idealize them. And then they try to debate on that basis. You know what I mean? They just can’t handle nuance.

    I find all this Islamophobic ranting that people engage in here to be, not just uninformed, but really is pretty demented and unhinged. But if you try to talk any sense to these people, they just go beserk, arguing as if you were idealizing Muslim society or culture, when you weren’t. I’m pretty sure that if Fred Reed had moved, say to a Morocco, married into the culture, he’d be writing essentially the same articles, except saying, hey, these Arabs are basically all right people and he’d be facing probably even nastier backlash over it.

    When contemplating their enemies, Islam also needs to look in a mirror.

    Well, Rurik, as I said, if I denounce all this demented Islamophobia, that doesn’t mean I’m idealizing Islam or Muslims generally. I’m not. And everybody should look in the mirror. Like, that Hillary Clinton, likely the next president, joking about the death of a man, his murder: “I came, I saw, he died” and laughing. First of all, all the people who see that and are not nauseated have been to a great extent dehumanized. That this woman could win elections and be president of the country…. so to say that these Muslims are the savages and we’re so civilized — I came, I saw, he died, big laugh — doesn’t cut it for me.

    And, besides, whatever critique of that society and culture should be based on real things, not on these staged false flags. If I were going to say Rurik is an asshole, I should base it on things you actually did, not stuff you were framed for!

    But, yes, as you say, the Matrix exists, and the reptilian minds here (even if some of them score high on an IQ test for all I know) they can’t grasp that they are being manipulated by this propaganda machine. If any of those people have read down this far, I would pose them a simple question:

    If you realize that there is this propaganda machine, the Matrix, that is trying to manipulate you into feeling this fear and loathing of Muslims, how should you react to this?

    (a) Start frothing at the mouth and fear and loath Muslims

    OR

    (b) Think…. THINK: “Why is there this propaganda that is trying to convince me to hate these people? Why are they doing this? What is the agenda?

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  141. This latest San Bernardino thing is a hoax and the Muslim couple were patsies, as usual.

    don’t know if you noticed but our mutual friend Sam has said he’s pretty sure of the same thing. Said now he has to revisit 911.

    Oh, on this, yes, I saw that. And I did a double-take! I think I had to reread it a few times and pinch myself.

    I’m flabbergasted by that and still don’t know quite what to make of it. I had long catalogued Sam Shama as some sort of disinfo agent. It simply didn’t seem possible that anybody could make the kinds of fallacious, basically dishonest, arguments he does with this kind of persistence and regularity without being that….

    Not that I was ever 100% certain. One could take it on face value. He could be some young man who was heavily indoctrinated and now really is, for whatever reason, waking up, and feeling stupid and saying that he owes us an apology and all that. And it’s all sincere. He mentioned that he was entering the fourth decade of life. (Why the guy doesn’t just say he is about to turn 30 is beyond me, typical Shama verbiage…) So if that is the case, he’s a kid basically (by my standards, as I’m getting into my sixth decade of life…) so it’s possible that he really is having his road to Damascus moment. Possible. And, if so, to be fair, he’s actually getting it a lot sooner than I did. I still believed most of the BS well into my forties.

    That said, I honestly don’t know, Rurik. Maybe the guy is for real and maybe it’s just some new kind of angle. Like I said, I’m flabbergasted and don’t know and am reserving judgment on that.

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  142. Turkey would have present itself as the protector of the “rights” of Turk (men) peoples trampled on by the Russians.

    Erdogan has been doing exactly that for the turkic Uyghurs of China for quite some time:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/turkish-uyghur-terror-inc-americas-other-al-qaeda/5477683

    Btw, the recent Russian warning of imminent terrorist attack by ISIS targeting russian tourists in Thailand very likely involves uyghurs who have already attacked chinese tourists there.

    And right after shooting down the russian jet the Prime Minister of Turkey went to Azerbaijan to proclaim brotherly love for the turkic azeris:

    http://armedia.am/eng/news/27192/davutoglu-azerbaijan-is-our-soul.html

    See why NATO thinks it needs the turks?

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  143. The the war in Syria: Hello, Ziocons!

    http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath

    Patrick Bahzad: “I suspect the loss of deterrence by the IDF in its 2006 ‘hybrid’ war against Hezbollah is a factor that encouraged thoughts about regime change in Syria and probably contributed to setting plans in motion that were hidden in someboy’s desk before.”

  144. Of course, there were no Russians involve. It is a typo, should have been “Spetznaz type” operation.

  145. @See why NATO thinks it needs the turks?

    But that was glaringly obvious for a long time. Turkey is the Trojan horse, masked by its pretended “secularism”.

  146. This is how you turn people away from your comments: Sam is truly a great guy and you should live him be.

    I like very much what Rurik wrote, his no-holds expose on the situation. But I do have one issue to expand on.

    Ruruk writes about Zionists as the only force of evil, to some extent he even excludes Anglos as active participants in the evil (as long as they get a good supply of young boys). But, as I have written before, this is a clash of the elite, that is a class of deadly financial parasites, against us the peasants (in feudal language). It is true that the elite is predominantly Zionist and secondly Anglo, but this is significant only the behavioural sense. The evil elite is simply supra-national, supra-religious and supra-ethnic. To state in a very simplified way – the elite is mismanaging us the peasants (the Muslims, the Christians, the Jews etc) and, even worse, the elite is mismanaging itself. They should be taking only as much that we, the host, can continue surviving, but they cannot control themselves. They are sawing chaos everywhere: the Muslim countries, the Western countries, the financial markets, the real-estate markets, just everywhere you look – CHAOS . Now this is why they are shitting their pants and creating police states in all Western countries, but this is not having the desired effect.

    The elite is panicking so badly, that they are overstepping just about any boundary left. Just recently, both the Pentagon and the State Department came out against Donald Trump. I am not a fan of the gentleman, but for the official Government institutions to openly come out against a single presidential candidate, now that is some scared-frozen shit in the pants (and skirts) talking.

    Things are spiraling out of control and neither the elite nor us the peasants know where things are going to go. There was never such uncertainty at a global level and with nuclear weapons on call. Dinosaurs, humans, cockroaches? In the end, the “crazy preppers” may turn out to be the smartest.

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  147. just in the past year or so, they have just ramped up these false flags. It seems to be one staged psy-op after another now.

    yep, and if they’re ever really desperate, we’ll be sure to get a doozy

    rigid kind of black-and-white thinking of people,

    it isn’t thinking, it’s just programed knee-jerk Pavlovian responses to stimuli
    that’s basically all advertising is, and that’s basically all the media do. We all know they’re programing us most especially when they’re acting like they’re not, like when they tell us the “news”. In fact they’re never lying so outrageously as when they’re telling us the “news”

    as for Fred Reed, I’ll tell you something, and it might compromise Fred’s relationship with Ron Unz.. Fred is the reason I’m here. I like reading Fred. I don’t always agree with him, but he’s a swell writer and I enjoy his prose. Also I enjoy his perspective. He won’t touch on 911 with a ten foot poll, but then I guess you can’t blame him too much. He likes to travel in certain circles, and so forth. But anyways, yea, he’s the reason I came here and dipped my oar.

    their pathological fear and loathing of Mexicans

    I didn’t much get into that one. I know there’s a lot about race and such that gets discussed, but my reason d’etre for being here is to oppose the wars. As far as the Mexicans go, I’ve always got along great with them, and Latin Americans in general. But just like with Muslims or any people who are different culturally and ethnically, I don’t think white (or black or even Hispanic or Asian) Americans want to see the country more diversified. Miami was white when Jimmy Carter walked into the White House. Today you better speak Spanish if you’re going to do business or order from a restaurant in many parts of that town. Because it’s really like a little Cuba today. And perhaps people don’t want that for their towns, and that’s where the fear and loathing comes from I suspect

    “I came, I saw, he died” and laughing.

    a soulless hag. I real life gorgon. Perhaps the worst person in the contry next to John McCain, and these are the people they trot out as our best. It just goes to show the nature of the people pulling their strings. That’s why I call them ‘fiends’. That’s what I consider them to be. From the bowels of some demonic netherworld, spit out of Moloch’s festering boil, like a pimple being popped, and then William Kristol or Krauthammer plops onto earth.

    going to say Rurik is an asshole

    LOL Sometimes I can be ; )

    high on an IQ test for all I know) they can’t grasp that they are being manipulated by this propaganda machine.

    don’t forget the many here that are part of that machine. They’re not manipulated, they’re trying to be the manipulators. Emphasis on ‘trying’ the poor dears ; )

    fear and loath Muslims

    I have nothing against Muslims in their own countries. And I think America and all the assorted war pigs owe Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and Syria and those people a massive debt of restitution and reconstruction. We’ll never be able to account for the murdered souls, but I’d love to see Tony Blair go to the Hague and for the dominoes to fall for the war criminals like Bush and Cheney and Hillary.
    That said, I don’t want them here. Here’s just one tiny little story but it’s in N. Dakota for Christ’s sake! WTF is he doing in N. Dakota?

    And why do we need Somalis in Maine?
    Fuck that shit. Just like you mentioned, the Turkish people didn’t shoot down that jet. They’re not guilty. Well that woman getting raped wasn’t guilty either. I have a big, big problem with the people who demand and insist that we need to import the world’s third world illiterates into white countries. It’s always the working class whites who get terrorized and it seems to me that the white liberals and Jews and Republicans are the ones laughing the loudest when it happens.
    But I also respect your efforts to point out that these are good people, and on the whole I totally agree. But I don’t want to hear the morning call to prayer from my own house. I want to drink and party and behave in questionable ways with the opposite sex. I want to live like a Westerner, and have big problems with a culture that tolerates clitorectomies and honor killings and such. God bless them in their own countries. Just not here. If we can agree on that, I suspect we agree on most things JR.

  148. That said, I honestly don’t know, Rurik. Maybe the guy is for real and maybe it’s just some new kind of angle. Like I said, I’m flabbergasted and don’t know and am reserving judgment on that.

    me too

    I must confess I like to hear Sam’s perspective. He can be intelligent and thoughtful when he’s in the right mood, but when it comes to certain subjects, he thinks he’s the High Priest, or perhaps the High Pharisee Caiaphas, and can order the crucifixion of anyone who speaks heresy as he sees it. Because heresy I did speak (and very often do) when I mocked the iron law of fealty to Holocaustianity when Germany sent some gentle 87 year old lady to prison for questioning some of the sacred dogmas, (that today like that lampshades and soap we all know are bullshit), but if you say that in Germany, they clamp the irons on and it’s off to the dungeons. So in solidarity to this poor woman’s plight, I too declared that if we all have to toe the line of Holocaustianitie’s catechisms or else, then fuck them and I too am a Holocaust denier! (since what that means is someone who doesn’t accept and believe as sacred every single word of the narrative, even I suppose the ones nobody believes anymore)

    Whereupon Sam went berserk and was openly hoping for me to come to some harm. How DARE I flout the holy and sacred tenets?! How dare I defy the Pharisees! Then he became a little unhinged and started gibbering and salivating that I was saying it never happened! ‘It’ being the Holocaust. Saying that I was claiming that no Jews suffered or were murdered during the Holocaust. Which he knew was a lie. And I called him on it and so there’s the distraction that I guess we must all suffer from time to time when we post like this on Internet forums.

    It got silly. So I hope he’s better now and understands that I will claim fealty to no God or religion- or the tenets of- out of intimidation. Ever. (Something he should have known about me to begin with).

    -sigh-

    anyways, I hope you’re right and that he’s burgeoning into a wise young man. I still have hope for him.

  149. writes about Zionists as the only force of evil, to some extent he even excludes Anglos as active participants in the evil (as long as they get a good supply of young boys).

    well actually that’s not “excludes”, but rather includes as evil scum, perhaps especially when they’re rewarded with children to sate their notorious appetites. It seems to me the entire British aristocracy are a den of pedophiles and paederasts. Or turn a blind eye like the Dean and athletic department of Penn State where Sandusky’s predations were well known. The BBC tolerated that monster Jimmy Savil knowing what he was and was doing. Like the Catholic Church, I see the British establishment pretty much the same way.

    and Zionists are certainly not the only force of evil in the world. Heavens no!

    there are myriads of opportunists and infinite greed and hatreds and vendettas and evil designs a plenty to go around.

    There’s the ‘military industrial complex’, big Oil, big Phama, assorted governments like most of the ones in the Middle East, not just the Zionists. There’s most of the governments of Europe, who are beholding to the ZioUS, perhaps, and the ECB, controlled by the Jewish Zionists, as I see it anyways. But they’re still stooges to this regime and that makes them bad too.

    This is the thing as I sometimes see it. There are people who would like to say that Israel is a dupe of Anglo, US intrigues to keep the Middle East under a boot. But I don’t think so. I think it’s the other way around. I think WWI was fought, or at least America was brought in and Germany betrayed and destroyed for the benefit of Zionists. Going back to the Balfour Declaration. And WWII was basically, at least as far as Europe and Russia was concerned, was Germany trying to throw off the yoke that world Jewry (bankers and assorted power mongers, not the Jews on the street of course) had placed on them since winning the first world war. But the Jews won again, and one of the first things they did with that victory was to institute the Jewish state of Israel on the ashes of Europe. With the treasonous blessings of FDR (who must be mentioned) and Churchill and Truman.

    And most of the horrors of the 20th century are all because of this Zionist agenda. And now, most of the horrors of the 21st century are all because of this push for Greater Israel. Or Ersatz Israel, or whatever you want to call it when they’re able to completely dominate and control and murder or torture anyone they want at a whim. Like they pretty much do now to the Palestinians. It seems like they’re just not satisfied with the money and the power, they have to use it, and use it in a way that humiliates other people.

    And that is why I believe 911 was done. As a pretext by the Zionists to foist total war on the entire planet on their behalf. We all know the score. The five countries mentioned by general Clark. We know of the PNAC. CFR. .. All these scumfucks and their egomaniacal plans for world domination. They’re the kind of people who did what they did at Abu Ghraib. They’re the kind of people who run Gitmo and shove tubes up men’s backsides to keep them from starving themselves to death. They’re the kind of people who Seymour Hersh said rapes little boys so that their mothers can hear their screams.

    and they’re the kind of people who’re near apoplectic at someone like Trump getting into power because it looks like he’s not their 100% owned stooge like every other president since JFK.

    No, they’re obviously not all Jewish, or even most of them. And some of the most cogent and passionate voices of sanity are from Jews. (like Hersh for instance)

    But does that mean that I give all Jews a pass? No. But what we’re programed to do since a very earlty age in the west, is to kneejerk instinctively assume that any criticism of any Jews is proof of a genicidal hatred of all Jews. But it’s a lie. But it’s also a very clever lie.

    Occasionally I’ve said something to someone about maybe how Israel had something to do with 911, and more often that you’d think, people will defend some Jewish persong they know or say ‘well, I like Jews’. Because there’s this automatic reaction that we’ve all been carefully programmed with. If you criticize something some Jew did = you hate all Jews and want to kill them all in gas chambers. It sounds silly, but that is where I get your statement that

    Ruruk writes about Zionists as the only force of evil

    It’s not true. And I’m an even bigger critic of gentile politicians than I’ve ever been of individual Jews, (most of whom- I’m forced because of this bizarre kneejerk response- to point out from time to time that I like very much!)

    but there again, with the blanket statement about “only” force of evil.

    I consider Erdogan evil for coveting Syrian land and cynically using head slicers to achieve his megalomaniacal agenda

    I consider Obama evil for what he and that nefarious hag did to Libya

    I consider the Catholic Church evil insofar as they permitted child rape from their ranks

    I consider all of the people involved with perpetrating 911 as evil as the word can ever mean

    anyone who commits cruelty and suffering for it’s own sake, and especially if they plan on profiting from it and especially if they take pleasure in doing it, and especially insofar as their capable of carrying it out, I consider evil

    that leaves out about 98+ percent of the Jews and the rest of humanity too. Jews are no worse or no better than anyone else. Some of them (like Bibi) are very misguided + they ( a very tiny few of them) seem to own or control the world’s central banks and media and that just gives them near God-like powers, and we all know what is said about power, and having too much of it.

    evil is as evil does, wasn’t’ that how it goes?

    and yes, I do lament and rail against the evils of Zionism, but that’s hardly the only evil out there, and I only condemn Zionism when it’s practiced in the way Bibi and his crew like to practice it. When Rabin was going to make a meaningful peace, he was the opposite of evil.

    Things are spiraling out of control and neither the elite nor us the peasants know where things are going to go.

    I know Kiza. I’m just trying to make sense of it insofar as I can, and speak the truth and hope for the best. I know a little bit about the world wars and what happened to people when the entire world went insane. I think is would be good if we can prevent a similar thing from happening in this century. But it don’t look too promising at this point.

  150. There is no reason to coddle the Anglo. It was not only the aristocracy which was in cahoots with Jewish bakers, of course, for more than three centuries. Commoners also. Protestantism suffused them with “sympathy” for the Jews up to the point of inventing the fantastic theories of “British Israelism (also called Anglo-Israelism) that very popular doctrine of the Victorian Era, based on the hypothesis that people of Western European and Northern European descent, particularly those in Great Britain, are the direct lineal descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of the ancient Israelites. The doctrine often includes the tenet that the British Royal Family is directly descended from the line of King David.” That was nearly the official justification of the very existence of a British Empire.

    British Israelism became associated with various pseudo-archaeological pyramidology theories, such as the Pyramid of Khufu containing a prophetic numerology of the British peoples (actually about claims that the Great Pyramid of Giza has encoded within it predictions for the exodus of Moses from Egypt, the crucifixion of Jesus, the start of World War I,the founding of modern-day Israel in 1948, and future events including the beginning of Armageddon). It spread around the British Empire and America, concomitantly with the spread of Dispensationalism (born in England too).

  151. you won’t find any sympathy from me for the British aristocracy Seraphim. Not hardly. And especially the British royal family. ~ God damn them to hell for what they’ve wrought I say.

    Commoners also.

    But on this I strongly disagree.

    Have you ever read Dickens? Do you know of how the poor of that island nation have suffered under the arrogant and haughty ‘peerage’ for centuries?

    the young men sent to wars against France or Germany to be slaughtered like so many sheep, for the wealth and power and esteem of the self-anointed.

    I have a special hatred for elites who presume to possess a congenital authority to rule. Perhaps it comes from being an American, and perhaps contempt for that kind of hereditary domination just riles my blood because of a lifetime spent suffering the stupidity and arrogance of ‘bosses’ whose fathers built the business. Don’t know for sure. But the common people on the streets of England have much more in common with the people of Ireland or Iraq than they do with the aristocrats who send them to die in contrived wars.

    And being poor and powerless and without hope was one thing. At least they could go to the local pub and commiserate with other Brits on their lot in life with a sense of camaraderie, and perhaps mock the queen and laugh at how “her grandson” Harry is the offspring of good, salt of the earth British stock, and not the inbred idiocy whose imbecilic rule has made England the pathetic laughing stock of the world. But now these commoners are not even permitted to fellowship with other Brits on their lot in life without having Pakistanis gang raping their daughters, and creating “no go” areas in England where ethic Brits dare not go. People may have a racist hatred for the British people because of the crimes of the colonial times. Or they might just have a racist hatred for white people in general like a lot of non-white people do.
    But none of this is not the fault of the poor British commoners. It’s all the fault of the British ruling class, for whom I have more contempt for than I think any other class of people on this planet.

    If you want to condemn the “Anglo imperialists’ then please leave out the little girls who’re “doused with petrol and told she would be set alight”.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rotherham-child-abuse-the-victims-stories-doused-with-petrol-and-told-she-would-be-set-alight-9692577.html

    She didn’t send bombers to Iraq. And she should have just as much right as any little girl to grow up without being gang raped and tortured into depraved submission by swarthy middle aged men with a grudge to settle against her race.

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  152. Food for thought: http://thesaker.is/russia-in-an-invisible-war/

    (“The moral is to the physical as three to one,” Napoleon Bonaparte).

    Makes one to think that the US problems have been aggravated by the likes of five-deferment-Dick Cheney (involved into outing an intelligence officer) and Israel-firster Douglas Feith (a hater of experts in Arabic culture). The US “elites” –  the wealthy and cunning scum that pretends to be of special smartness – are out of patriotism. The same is true about their children. For the last 40 years, the US have been fighting the wars of aggression by using mercenaries.

  153. Erdogan, Bosphorus, and Russian fight against ISIS

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/video-the-russia-turkey-standoff-bosphorus-blockade/5494981

    Is not it grand that ISIS-allied Turkey has become the face of NATO (US/UK/Israel)?

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  154. more here:

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/12/07/war-is-on-the-horizon-is-it-too-late-to-stop-it-paul-craig-roberts/

    he seems to advocate a more vigorous show of Russian resolve, whereas I would prefer to see Putin make conciliatory gestures towards Eastern Europe, even repudiating some of the more extreme crimes of the Soviet period as a strategy to move some of the more belligerent elements in Poland and Ukraine away from NATO. This would also tend, I suspect to put a magnet to the compass of Germany’s ship of state, insofar as the people have a voice.

    Germany and Russia are natural allies. Both peoples remember the war. Neither want to do a replay.

  155. @Do you know of how the poor of that island nation have suffered under the arrogant and haughty ‘peerage’ for centuries?

    Who, with an even cursory knowledge of history (from well researched scholarly books and not novels or TV docudramas) doesn’t know? And doesn’t know that the poor and powerless have been massively “transported” to the penal colonies of America and Australia?
    The commoners I was referring to was the emerging bourgeoisie of merchants, privateers, industrialists and shopkeepers which raised to power after the devastation foisted upon the “Merry England” by the Reformation, the English Civil War, the Glorious Revolution. They become the backbone of “the empire on which the sun never sets”. They were the ones to fill the Masonic Lodges and dreamt at rebuilding Solomon’s Temple.
    The tragic thing was that the poor and powerless transported have became themselves pillars of the “empire on which the sun never sets”. And ironically, they leaned on the Muslims whom they coddled and favoured!

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  156. The empire of Federal Reserve will continue attacking Russian Federation whether Russia responds vigorously to provocations or gives careful responses; the plutocracy cannot help itself – or rather, the parasitoids are not able to contain themselves. The current presidential parade makes one very pessimistic about the future of the US (…deserve neither liberty nor safety) and of the humanity at large. If the psychopaths are dreaming about hiding in some safe haven during the approaching nuclear conflict (courtesy ziocons), they are for some interesting life: there will be a high concentration of psychopaths in a very limited place and a catastrophic absence of decent people. A swarm of tarantulas in a small jar.

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  157. The tragic thing was that the poor and powerless transported have became themselves pillars of the “empire on which the sun never sets”.

    you’re not bashing Aussies now are ya? If you’re an aborigine, perhaps I’d understand, otherwise, what’s wrong with them?

    and that empire is long since died an ignoble death.

    I know a guy who wants me to become a Mason. He gave me a book and I’ve been reading about it. Interesting stuff. I’ve always been curious, the guy is a nice fellow, but so far I haven’t gone to the meetings. It’s all just a little bit creepy for me. But so far, no lizards that I can find, although I do see a lot about some guy named Hiram Abiff. Also some other interesting characters. A lot about Solomon’s Temple, that’s for sure.

    And ironically, they leaned on the Muslims whom they coddled and favoured!

    ?

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  158. catastrophic absence of decent people.

    A swarm of tarantulas in a small jar.

    : )

    the funny thing is that if it comes to nuclear war, and Russia or Pakistan or someone is forced to decide to submit to tyranny or press the button, it won’t be because the west is trying to defend itself. It will be because the west is ruled by tarantulas (or I like to call them baboons, or un-evolved humans who have an imperative to dominate everyone) , and would be willing to see it all blown to bits rather than allow some people to be free

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5R_pS0h5Qk

  159. theirry’s take on how the Kurds function in the mix :

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article189562.html

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  160. @empire is long since died an ignoble death

    Not so ignoble. “The Commonwealth of Nations, commonly known as the Commonwealth (formerly the British Commonwealth) is an intergovernmental organisation of 53 member states that were mostly territories of the former British Empire”. Oh, yes, now the member states are “free and equal”, a “free association” of states “united by language, history, culture and their shared values of democracy, human rights, and the rule of law, values enshrined in the Commonwealth Charter and promoted by the quadrennial Commonwealth Games”. The “symbol” of this union is Her Gracious Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, who is the Head of the Commonwealth. The Queen is also the (hereditary) monarch of 16 members of the Commonwealth, known as “Commonwealth realms”, outstanding among them being… Australia and Canada. Technically speaking, they are still “British Dominions Beyond the Seas”, although rebranded “Her Other Realms and Territories”. Her Gracious Majesty is the Commander in chief of the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN), Canadian Army (CA), and Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF), of the Royal Australian Navy (RAN), Australian Army, Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF). Aussies adore their Queen and Charles and Camilla, and William and Kate, and Harry, and little George and little Charlotte.
    And India, some would ask? Indians respond (jokingly) that “India is becoming very powerful day by day and it is not far when India becomes the head of the Common Wealth and who knows, may be Britain would become India’s colony” and then perhaps Charles or William, or heirs would become again “Emperors of India”. I am (half) jocking.

  161. OT, sort of.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV3VCx5HmAA
    Scruffles in Ukraine Parliament: Massive brawl in Ukrainian parliament as PM dragged off podium

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  162. Rogozin aptly compared Yats with an inflatable sex doll being carried out of the shop.

  163. I checked out the link you provided. It was very informative. Thanks. I also found on the site and checked out another piece by thierry dealing with the shooting down of the Russian bomber by the Turks. http://www.voltairenet.org/article189474.html In his view, the whole war in Syria is connected to a plan to turn the Kurdish sector in northeastern Syria (previously vastly expanded as the result of Syria’s decision (Assad the father) to allow 2 million Kurdish refugees fleeing the Turkish war against the Kurds in the 80′s and 90′s) into a separate state of Syrian Kurdistan and move 10 million Kurds from Turkey to Syria. Russia’s intervention obviously threw a monkey wrench into the works. But the last paragraph is very interesting:

    “From these elements, we may conclude that NATO was aware of the preparation of the Turkish attack and allowed it to happen. It looks as though Washington, which might support the project for a Kurdistan in Turkey, but is opposed to the invention of a pseudo-Kurdistan in Syria, is readying itself, with Russia, to oppose the Franco-Israelo-British project, just as the two major powers once opposed the colonisation of the Suez Canal (1956).”

    Thus, in his view, the U.S. is not on board with the plan, but the plan is solely a concoction between the U.K., France, Turkey and Israel, sort of like the old days in 1956 when Ike said “no” to the British, French and Israeli takeover of the Suez Canal. Very interesting, since it was Cameron of the U.K. and Sarkozy of France who were pushing Obama to overthrow Qaddafi in Libya. Once Qaddafi was overthrown, both arms and fighting men went sent from Libya to Syria to fight Assad. Unfortunately, at a very dangerous moment for us and the world, we don’t have Ike as President but Obama.

  164. Things are way beyond what Saker is reporting.

    Putin already has pledged retaliation if there’s another incident.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russia-escalates-suspends-military-cooperation-turkey-moves-warship-coast-destroy-an

    We’re on a hair trigger to war. So now what. Will Obama/ NATO call out the Russians?

    And if they’re wrong? Will NATO let Russia blast away not only attacking aircraft but airbases themselves well with Turkish or the borders of others?

    The world came within seconds of a thermonuclear war over Cuba in 1962… this is as bad or worse.

  165. […] plenty of news and analysis over this incident of the Russain downed plane as one can see here and here. Both discussing how the events are transpiring and what possible outcomes there can […]

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