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Week Eleven of the Russian Intervention in Syria: A Step Back from the Brink?

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Image Credit: SouthFront
Image Credit: SouthFront

This has been an amazing week. While last week I concluded that “The only way to avoid a war is to finally give up, even if that is initially denied publicly, on the “Assad must go” policy”. Now it is true that various US officials, including Kerry, did make statements about the fact that Assad need not go right now, that a “transition” was important or that “the institutions of the state” had to be preserved, but of course what I, and many others really meant, was that the US needed to fundamentally change its policy towards the Syrian conflict. Furthermore, since Turkey committed an act of war against Russia under the “umbrella” of the US and NATO, this also created a fantastically dangerous situation in which a rogue state like Turkey could have the impression of impunity because of its membership in NATO. Here again, what was needed was not just a positive statement, but a fundamental change in US policy.

There is a possibility that this fundamental change might have happened this week. Others have a very different interpretation of what took place and I am not categorically affirming that it did – only time will show – but at least it is possible that it has. Let’s look at what happened.

First, there were some very unambiguous statements from John Kerry in Moscow. The most noticed ones were:

“As I emphasized today, the United States and our partners are not seeking so-called “regime change,” as it is known in Syria” source.

“Now, we don’t seek to isolate Russia as a matter of policy, no” source.

Now, I am acutely aware that Kerry has “lost” every single negotiation he has had with the Russians and I have written about that many times. I am also aware that Kerry has a record of saying A while with the Russians and non-A as soon as he gets back home. Finally, I also understand that Kerry is not the one really making the decisions but that this is what the US “deep state” does. But with all those caveats in mind, it is undeniable that these two statements constitute an official, if not necessarily factual, 180 degree turn, an abandonment of official US goals towards both Russia and Syria. Furthermore, we have seen not only words, but actual actions from the Americans. First, the US and Russia have agreed to draft a common list of “recognized terrorists” (as opposed to “moderate” freedom fighters). While it is debatable as to who will end up on the “good guys list”, it is certain that all those who matter in Syria – al-Qaeda and Daesh – will make it to the “bad guys” list. That, in turn, will make it much harder, but not impossible (remember the Contras!) for the US to continue to assist and finance them. But the US did something even more interesting:

The USA announced that it was withdrawing 12 of its F-15s from Turkey, 6 F-15C and 6 F-15E. Now this might not look like much, but these are highly symbolic aircraft as they are the aircraft which were suspected of “covering” for the Turkish F-16s which shot down the Russian SU-24. The F-15Cs, in particular, are pure air-to-air fighters which could only have been directed at the Russian aircraft in Syria. Of course, the US declared that this was a normal rotation, that it has been an exercise, but the bottom line is here: while NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg had promised to reinforce the NATO presence in Turkey, the US just pulled out 12 of its top of the line aircraft. Compare that with the Russians who continued to increase their capabilities in Syria, especially their artillery (see here, here and here). Furthermore, there is this very interesting news item: “Erdogan’s Spin Machine Now Blames Su-24 Shoot-Down on Turkish Air Force Chief”. Read the full article, it appears that there is a trial balloon launched in the Turkish social media to blame the downing of the SU-24 on the Turkish Air Force Chief (nevermind that Erdogan publicly declared that he personally gave that order). Finally, Russia succeeded in getting a unanimous decision of the UNSC to adopt a Russian resolution targeting Daesh finances. Needless to say, if the Resolution was officially aimed at Daesh money sources, it really puts Qatar, Saudi Arabia and, especially, Turkey in a very difficult situation: not only does the Resolution foresee sanctions against any country or entity dealing with Daesh, but the investigation of any claims of such financial relationships will be conducted by the UN. According to Russia Today,

ORDER IT NOW

The resolution also asks countries to report on what they have accomplished in disrupting IS’ financing within the next 120 days. It also calls on UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to write up a “strategic-level report” analyzing IS’ sources of revenue within 45 days. “We are counting on it to be a very concrete and honest report,” Churkin told RT. Churkin also mentioned Turkey’s involvement in the illegal oil trade with IS, stressing that Turkish individuals as well as companies could be sanctioned under the resolution. He added that countries could even be sanctioned “if it turned out that [one of them] has not implemented enough effective measures against the fight of financial terrorism.” According to the UN envoy, Russia was the only member that could provide proof of concrete schemes used by other countries to engage in illegal oil trade with Islamic State or how IS able to use the revenue from those transactions to purchase weapons from other countries, particularly from a few in Eastern Europe. The document, which is based on UN Charter Article VII and takes effect immediately, calls for members to “move vigorously and decisively to cut the flow of funds” to IS. It says that governments must prevent its citizens from funding or providing services to “terrorist organizations or individual terrorists for any purpose, including but not limited to recruitment, training, or travel, even in the absence of a link to a specific terrorist act.

So not only do the Russians now have the means to channel their intelligence about the collaboration between Daesh and Turkey to the UNSC, but the Secretary General will now produce a report based, in part, on this intelligence. This is all very, very bad news for Ankara.

So what is happening here?

Here is what I think might have happened.

My hypothesis

First, the downing of the Russian SU-24 is becoming a major liability. The Russians have immediately claimed that this was a carefully planned and cowardly ambush, but now top western experts agree. This is very embarrassing, and it could get much worse with the deciphering of the flight recorders of the SU-24 (which the Russians have found and brought to Moscow). The picture which emerges is this: not only was this a deliberate provocation, an ambush, but there is overwhelming evidence that the Turks used the information the Russians have provided to the USA about their planned sorties. The fact that the Americans gave that information to the Turks is bad enough, but the fact that the Turks then used that information to shoot down a Russian aircraft makes the US directly responsible. The USA is also responsible by the simple fact that there is no way the Turks could have set up this complex ambush without the USA knowing about it. Now, it is possible that some in the US military machine knew about it while others didn’t. This entire operation sounds to me like exactly the kind of goofball plan the CIA is famous for, so maybe Kerry at State or even Obama did not really “know” about it. Or they did and are now pretending like they did not. Whatever may be the case, the US is now obviously trying to “off-load” this latest screwup on Erdogan who himself is trying to off-load it on his Air Force chief. What is certain is that the plan failed, the Russians did not take the bait and did not retaliate militarily, and that now the political consequences of this disaster are starting to pile up. As for Erdogan, he wanted to come out of this as the Big Pasha, the tough man of the region, but he now looks like an irresponsible coward (Putin ridiculed how the Turks ran to NATO as soon as the Russian SU-24 was shot down when he said: ”they immediately ran to Brussels, shouting: “Help, we have been hurt.” Who is hurting you? Did we touch anybody there? No. They started covering themselves with NATO.”). Even the US and Europe are, reportedly, fed up and angry with him. As for the Russians, they seem to believe that he is a “Saakashvili v2” – a guy with whom there is nothing to discuss and whom the Kremlin considers as politically dead.

Second, look at Syria. Even under maximal pressure, the Russians did not yield or show signs of hesitation but did the exact opposite: they more than doubled their presence, brought in heavy artillery systems and even floated the idea of opening a 2nd major airport in Syria (this intention was later denied by Russian officials). For the Americans this meant something very simple: while the Russians are much weaker in Syria than the USA, they were clearly undeterred and were not only holding their ground, but digging in. In other words, they were ready for war.

I want to believe that the various warnings issued by many, including myself, might have contributed to convince the US analysts that the Russians were really ready to fight. First, there is Peter Lavelle who on his RT show CrossTalk has been warning about the path to war for literally months now. But there have been many others, including Pepe Escobar, Paul Craig Roberts, Alastair Crooke, Stephen Landeman, Stephen Cohen, who were sounding the alarm and warning the Empire that Russia would not ‘blink’ or ‘back down’ and that war was a very real, possibly inevitable, danger (you can see some my own warnings about that here, here, here and, of course, in my last week’s column). I know how the intelligence process works and I believe that such a loud chorus of warnings might well have played a rule in the US decision to change course, if only for the immediate future.

As I have stressed over and over again, the “tactical-operational contingent of the Russian AirSpace forces in Syria” (that is their official name) is small, isolated and vulnerable. Syria is stuck between NATO and CENTCOM and the US can, if needed, bring an immense amount of firepower into Syria and there is nothing the Russians could do about that. See for yourself how many air bases the US has in CENTCOM and Turkey by clicking here: http://imageshack.com/a/img908/9391/B61WCG.jpg (high resolution, 7MB image created by SouthFront). But there is one thing even a small force can do: become a “tripwire” force.

Regardless of the limited capabilities of the Russian task force in Syria, it was large enough to be considered a “tripwire” force – one which attacked would result in a full-scale war with Russia. If the Americans had any doubts about that, they were instantly dispelled when they heard Putin officially declared that “I order you to act very extreme resolve. Any targets that threaten Russia’s group or our terrestrial infrastructure is to be immediately destroyed”.

The combination of all these factors was, apparently, sufficient to convince the US to step on the breaks before things really got out of hand.

Again, I am not affirming that this is what took place, but I want to believe that I am correct and that somebody in the USA finally understood that war with Russia was inevitable if the USA continued on the same course and took the decision to stop before it was too late. If this is really what happened, this is extremely encouraging and very, very good news. While stupidity and insanity, not to mention outright evil, are definitely present in the AngloZionist Empire’s top command, there is always the possibility for decent and sane men to do the right thing and try to stop the crazies (like Admiral Mike Mullen did when the Neocons wanted to start a war with Iran).

The other big event of the week was, of course, the annual press conference of Vladimir Putin. I have posted the full text on my blog, so I will only mention one particularly interesting part here: Putin was asked about whether Russia wanted to keep a base in Syria forever. Here is what he replied:

Some people in Europe and the US repeatedly said that our interests would be respected, and that our [military] base can remain there if we want it to. But I do not know if we need a base there. A military base implies considerable infrastructure and investment. After all, what we have there today is our planes and temporary modules, which serve as a cafeteria and dormitories. We can pack up in a matter of two days, get everything aboard Antei transport planes and go home. Maintaining a base is different. Some believe, including in Russia, that we must have a base there. I am not so sure. Why? My European colleagues told me that I am probably nurturing such ideas. I asked why, and they said: so that you can control things there. Why would we want to control things there? This is a major question. We showed that we in fact did not have any medium-range missiles. We destroyed them all, because all we had were ground-based medium-range missiles. The Americans have destroyed their Pershing ground-based medium-range missiles as well. However, they have kept their sea- and aircraft-based Tomahawks. We did not have such missiles, but now we do – a 1,500-kilometre-range Kalibr sea-based missile and aircraft-carried Kh-101 missile with a 4,500-kilometre range. So why would we need a base there? Should we need to reach somebody, we can do so without a base. It might make sense, I am not sure. We still need to give it some thought. Perhaps we might need some kind of temporary site, but taking root there and getting ourselves heavily involved does not make sense, I believe. We will give it some thought.

I find that reply quiet amazing. Can you imagine a US President actually thinking that way and openly saying it? Putin is quite obviously making fun of the so-called “experts” who have been telling us for years how much Russia cared about a base in Tartus and who now tell us that the airbase in Khmeimim is the next “forever base” for Russia not so much to protect Syria but to project Russian power. It turns out that Russia has no interest and no desire for any such costly power projection: “ Should we need to reach somebody, we can do so without a base”.

By the way, this translation is incorrect. What Putin really said was “Если кого-то надо достать, мы и так достанем”. The word “dostat’” is translated here by “reach” but I would translate it by “get” meaning “if we need to get somebody (in the sense of “strike at somebody”) we can already do that (i.e. without a base)”. This was most definitely a veiled threat even if the official translation does not render it accurately (and yes, a supersonic and stealthy cruise missile with a reach of 4,500km does allow Russia to ‘get’ anybody anywhere on the planet, especially when delivered by aircraft with a 12,000km flying range).

When western leaders and expert assume that Russia is about building bases abroad they are really only projecting their own, imperial, mindset. I have said that over and over again: Russia has no intention of ever become an empire again simply because being an empire is bad for Russia. All Russia wants is to be a truly sovereign state and not to be a colony of the AngloZionists, but she has no intention whatsoever of becoming an “anti-USA” or a “Soviet Union reloaded”. Hillary can scare herself at night with nightmare of Putin rebuilding the USSR, but there is no constituency in Russia for such a plan. Russia wants to be free and strong, yes, but an empire, no.

It is quite amazing to see how western leaders and experts project their own mindset unto others and then end up terrifying themselves in the process. It’s quite pathetic, really.

In conclusion I will just add that it is quite likely that the focus will shift back to the Ukraine again. Not only is the Ukraine hours away from an official default, but the Ukronazis are openly threatening Crimea with, I kid you not, a “naval blockade”! Considering the lack of US and NATO enthusiasm for Erdogan’s shooting down of the Russian SU-24, I very much doubt that anybody in the West will be happy with that goofy idea. So between the economic collapse, the political chaos, the coming winter and the Nazi freaks and their crazy plans to fight Russia, there is a pretty good chance that the next flashpoint will be in the Nazi-occuppied Ukraine again. I doubt that the US has the “mental CPU power” to deal with both crises at the same time, at least not in a sustained and energetic manner. That, again, is good news – the Empire is over-committed and overstretched and that is typically the only situation when it is willing to compromise. We shall soon know if my very cautious optimism is warranted or not.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: NATO, Russia, Syria

186 Comments to "Week Eleven of the Russian Intervention in Syria: A Step Back from the Brink?"

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  1. Putin at his illogical best. His quote. “My European colleagues told me that I am probably nurturing such ideas. I asked why, and they said: so that you can control things there. Why would we want to control things there? “ Frankly I am confused. If Putin does not want to control things in Syria why are the Russians there. Furthermore I do not believe for one second that the true decision makers in the US have abandoned their ultimate goal of subjugating Russia. Syria is just but one piece on the chessboard. Just yesterday the US put in service its newest missile site in Romania. US instructors will also start training Ukrainian army and there is considerable effort to stop the second pipeline to Germany. Of course the sanctions by EU have been extended and the price of oil continues to fall. In other words the noose is tightening. Even if Putin succeeds in saving Assad and I am not sure why he is so important, it will bring very little benefit to Russia. As the economic situation in Russia continues to deteriorate we may soon see protests similar to those in Ukraine before the fall of Yanukovych.

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  2. The “Saker” is a fraud and has been exposer as such. This is yet another spin to point Putin as a great strategist, when in reality Putin is a sellout (picked directly by Boris Eltsine, hence the U.S. State Department) who does not work in the interest of the Russian people, or its allies.

    I have asked all week the “Saker” to explain to its readers why Victoria Nuland was all smiles when she met with Putin this week, etc. he censors all comments that could make the supposedly great chess master look bad. Oh yeah… all the pro-Kremlin websites have made sure their readers would not see the pictures of Victoria Nuland strolling down the streets of Moscow, with Moscovites taking selfies with her, etc.

    Meanwhile, everyone has forgotten about the people being slaughtered in the Donbass.

    Putin sold out Assad, like he has sold out all its other allies before that.

    The language in the UN resolution on Syria, signed by Russia, implies that the Assad government has been killing civilians for years. And again, Russia signed that piece of paper.

    French political scientist Pierre Hillard, who has denounced globalization his entire career, has for years warned “dissidents” that Putin was not who they thought he was. He has for years warned that what we were seeing was just good cop/bad cop.

    There is another agenda at play. Arch-Zionist Putin, who passed a law to jail individuals that have questions on the official WWII narrative for FIVE years, does not work for his people, but for another entity.

    Just this week, Russia passed one of the weirdest laws ever: banning the use of biblical scriptures that could be assimilated to “anti-semitism”. How the hell do you enforce such a law?

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  3. Why do you never get tired of repeating the same shitty predictions? Even a newspaper astrologer doesn’t print the same horoscope for someone day after day.

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  4. W/o taking into the account the real Macher of the Middle East all analyses are incomplete. This includes Saker’s attempts to explain Putin’s motives and strategy. In fact Saker in the past displayed rather naive view of Israel. Time has come to answer the question why did Putin get the green light from Netanyahu? What is the real plan? What kind of game Israel is playing?

    Putin did not lie. Russia really does not care about Syria or its base there. Russia has no means to support extraterritorial bases with its meager navy while many bases in Russia are in decay. It is possible that Syria is Russia’s last stand. An attempt to negotiate a better position for Russia in the NWO. Saker might be right by saying that it all comes back to Ukraine. At least in Russians’, like Saker’s, minds. But what is going on in Israeli’s minds that is the question that one would die to know?

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  5. Prediction is based on experience and logic. It has nothing to do with a horoscope. What exactly is your argument based on. Try to convince me with facts.

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  6. Two minutes of a Putin presser > everything Obama has ever uttered in his life.

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  7. Very good post with a lot of information, but I’m a little surprised you didn’t mention the report carried by Bloomberg the other day how Russian radar systems employed in northern Syria have caused the Americans to circumscribe their air operations “against ISIS” there (with an occasional 30 mile detour to attack some Syrian army positions “by accident”). I guess having Russian radar “paint” American planes made the Americans a little nervous. I posted yesterday on Phil Giraldi’s blog in response to Kiza:

    “There was a report in Bloomberg just a day ago that the Russian air defense system is putting increasing restraint on American use (illegal) of Syrian air space. http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-12-17/new-russian-air-defenses-in-syria-keep-u-s-grounded So it looks like saner heads in Washington may have regained control of the Syrian mess before it spiraled out of control. If that is the case, we may have rational players on both sides instead of just Putin. I hope I am not being foolishly naïve.” http://www.unz.com/article/turkeys-dangerous-game/#comment-1265288

    Is there any truth to that Bloomberg report, which mentions that Kerry brought the matter up in his meetings at the Kremlin? I was hoping you would discuss it so we could have your thinking about it.

    The other matter which I think is important is that the U.S. convinced Turkey to withdraw their forces from the base outside Mosul in northern Iraq after the Iraqis publicly complained about that invading force. I look at that as a positive sign in that the Americans probably concluded that, if they didn’t persuade the Turks to withdraw, the Iraqis might turn for help to the Russians who would be only too glad to pay back the Turks, who were operating illegally, by hurling some missiles at that Turkish force and killing a few hundred Turks as payback for Turkey’s downing of the Russian bomber. Am I reading too much into that action?

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  8. Thanks for sharing what you found in your fortune cookie.

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  9. So you have nothing to say, but hint portentously all the same. Par for the course.

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  10. There’s a remarkably efficient division of labour among you trolls. Troll 1 said Putin is soon going to be defeated. Troll 2 – you – says Putin is working for the other side. Troll 3 will say Putin is irrelevant. Does this smooth organisation happen accidentally?

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  11. Anonymous
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    I too wonder about Putin. Is he really working for the Zionists? If so not wanting a base in Syria would make sense in the long run as it would be in the interests of Isreal. The thing is Putin acts tough and makes good decisions countering a country like Turkey, but when has he ever done anything to counter Isreal? Does Putin see Isreal as THE major threat or does he see them as a potential ally? If the later Putin is not the grand chess player people make him out to be.

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  12. You are the troll, hence your attacks on the messengers instead of the messages. What I listed in my first posting are FACTS, notably Russia’s now infamous iteration of the despicable “Gayssot law” in France.

    Also, you guys someday will have to explain to us how the “Saker community” popped up, just like that, across the globe all of a sudden.

    You will have to explain to us why a guy who has been predicted the imminent collapse of the U.S. for years decided to make Florida his home and also, by his own admission, is having his. Hidden attend U.S. colleges… why would you have your children study to get a degree in a system that is about to collapse? Why not send them to school in Moscow or St. Petersburg? Plus it would be much cheaper.

    Bottom line is, this guy, Saker, is a fraud. Period.

    I have tremendous respect for the Russian people. But to me, their politicians are just like ours. And that includes Putin. That’s all.

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  13. [attacks on the messengers instead of the messages]

    No, I pointed out the strangely perfect coordination of the messages.

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  14. “But to me, their politicians are just like ours. And that includes Putin. That’s all.”

    Absolutely. Who did false flag bombing against its own people in 1999? Yet we may and should have sympathy for Putin and Russia and we should root for their cause simply because they are underdogs trying to rebalance the ecosystem of power. The unipolar world with only one predator is the worst nightmare for common people. In terms of freedom, liberty and diversity of ideas the unipolar world will be a disaster.

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  15. The fact that the Americans gave that information to the Turks is bad enough, but the fact that the Turks then used that information to shoot down a Russian aircraft makes the US directly responsible.

    No, it doesn’t, you pinhead. “Directly responsible” = firing the missile, or ordering it fired. US is incapable of being directly responsible for a Turkish missile being fired by Turkish forces from Turkish territory. You idiot.

    The USA is also responsible by the simple fact that there is no way the Turks could have set up this complex ambush without the USA knowing about it.

    Wrong again, moron. Knowing something is going to happen doesn’t make a party responsible for the event in question.

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  16. Has USG confirmed or denied giving flight plan data to Turkey? Because this accusation makes no sense to me. It seems obvious to me that the whole point of Russia giving that data to USG was so they’d share it with NATO, Turkey in particular, to avoid sticky situations like Turkey being able to plausibly deny knowing it was a Russian jet they were shooting down. But the fact that USG has said nothing on the matter (at least, not trumpeted in a thousand articles as is the norm for that kind of thing) suggests I have it wrong.

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  17. {First, there were some very unambiguous statements from John Kerry in Moscow. The most noticed ones were:
    “As I emphasized today, the United States and our partners are not seeking so-called “regime change,” as it is known in Syria” source.} (The Saker)

    Didn’t take too long for the strings of the puppet Lurch to be yanked.

    [‘US not after regime change in Syria, but Assad must go’ – Kerry to Russian TV]

    https://www.rt.com/news/326563-kerry-russia-syria-ukraine-libya/

    Apparently in the up-side-down Bizzaro world of US State Dept, not seeking so-called “regime change” means the same thing as “Assad must go”.

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  18. given Saker’s track record….whatever he predicts, assume the opposite will happen. As for Putin, he continues to do the absolute minimum to protect Russian State and strategic interests. And he’s still way, way out on a limb in Syria. Later or sooner, the Zio-globalists will move to cut the limb. What would Putin do if he were a true Maker of History? Seize Constantinople

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  19. shots fired - Occurrences
    says:
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    […] “Week Eleven of the Russian Intervention in Syria: A Step Back from the Brink?”  A good diplomatic week for Russia, and thus sanity.  Of course, you can’t trust the Americans for the very simple reason that the warmongering Jewish billionaires will always be muscling in to block sanity. […]

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  20. Exactly. The guy’s always wrong.

    Did you see what happened in Damascus last night? So much for S-400 Triumph.

    But don’t believe for a second that this is weakness. I am now convinced that Russia is in on the game and that Putin and Obama have mislead the world in a good cop/bad cop routine.

    They are both helping in the creation of greater Israel and the destruction of Europe.

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  21. Week Eleven of the Russian Intervention in Syria: A Step Back from the Brink? - Intifada Palestine
    says:
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    […] (The Unz Review) – This has been an amazing week. While last week I concluded that “The only way to avoid a war is to finally give up, even if that is initially denied publicly, on the “Assad must go” policy”. Now it is true that various US officials, including Kerry, did make statements about the fact that Assad need not go right now, that a “transition” was important or that “the institutions of the state” had to be preserved, but of course what I, and many others really meant, was that the US needed to fundamentally change its policy towards the Syrian conflict. Furthermore, since Turkey committed an act of war against Russia under the “umbrella” of the US and NATO, this also created a fantastically dangerous situation in which a rogue state like Turkey could have the impression of impunity because of its membership in NATO. Here again, what was needed was not just a positive statement, but a fundamental change in US policy. […]

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  22. Exactly! You put it absolutely right. Fully agree with your observation and I am pointing on the same threats in my other comments. For that I was immediately labelled as an “agent of Fifth column” . We see that every genuine patriot of Russia, and therefore the antagonist to Putin and his policy, automatically becomes an “enemy” of Russia. Even the slightest criticism gets immediately attacked either by his army of the professional shills or by his gullible fans.

    Agree on the “Saker” as well. I’ve long ago noticed that the Saker’s narratives are always pro-Putin. This is why I stopped reading him. Too bad that he has so many followers and these people are keeping to buy into it all.

    Just this week, Russia passed one of the weirdest laws ever: banning the use of biblical scriptures that could be assimilated to “anti-semitism”. How the hell do you enforce such a law?

    Wow…I didn’t yet hear about adobting such an openly hostile anti-Christian “law” here in Russia. Could you, please, provide the link? I’ll investigate it using Russian sources as well. If true, then it would mean that the masks are thrown off. Pretending to be such a “genuine Orthodox Christian” would be then a lot harder. However…all these 15 years of his presidency perfectly demonstrate us that any role is easy (and suitable) for such a brilliant actor like Putin. Not so long ago he was a “hero”, right now he is playing a “peacemaker”. Although, the people of Donbass don’t think so anymore, after they’ve learned the cruelest and deadliest lesson of Putin’s treachery. Now, indeed, is Assad’s turn to learn the same lesson.

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  23. http://www.wnd.com/2015/12/putin-pushes-law-against-anti-semitic-bible-commentary/

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  24. What is clear, to US/NATO’s suprise, is that Russia’s air defense systems have overtaken NATO’s systems in Syria.

    Radar + base communications jamming on Fxx fighters. The pilots will only hear Russian.
    Apart from the Bloomberg report, PCR had an article about it.

    Unless the US starts a full blown, planetary war, the Russians command the Syrian air space.
    The Russians can bomb all NATO ME airbases simultaneously, within the hour. The missile detection rate by US will be small.

    Putin and Lavrov are serious about Geopolitical terrorism by the US, Brezinkskys grand chessboard. So no splitup of Syria, or else.

    This is a true and real Russian national interest, as Putin has explained in a televised address to the Russian people.

    So far, all is out in the open, by Russia. The former KGB man, has become almost a true democrat!

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  25. With respect to the last paragraph of my prior message dealing with the withdrawal of Turkish troops from Mosul, I came across this little item (I know nothing about the news organization carrying the item):

    “Iraqi parliamentarians want Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi to request Russian aid in combating ISIS. Washington is going all-out to prevent it.

    On Wednesday, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter arrived in Baghdad to warn him against accepting Putin’s help. He’s stopped short of asking so far – for how long remains to be seen. Iraq has no chance to defeat its scourge without it.” http://www.globalresearch.ca/twisted-east-west-diplomacy-bizarre-kerry-claim-about-us-not-seeking-regime-change-in-syria/5496809

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  26. “If Putin does not want to control things in Syria why are the Russians there.”
    You should go back to grammar school. After “Syria”, you forgot a comma. Since the above is meant to be a question, where is the question mark?

    P.S.: If the Native Americans are supposed to live in the country of the brave and the free, why are non-natives here?

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  27. Wow. Between the NATO-bots and the Duginites, poor Saker (and Putin) just can’t win here. I’ve followed Saker’s blog for over two years now, and he’s been right more often than wrong. Nobody’s predictions are 100%, but he’s been pretty good on the important points. And when he’s been wrong, he’s admitted it and moved on.

    • Agree: Thirdeye
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  28. There’s nothing genuine or patriotic about you. As your colleagues have let slip, you are part of a well-rehearsed anti-Russian propaganda campaign appearing under false pretenses. The Saker has you and your like dead to rights.

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  29. If you look at the record, you will notice an interesting pattern:

    Regnum Nostrum – total of 12 posts – first post on 12/11/15

    unvote – total of 15 posts – first post on 12/16/15

    uto – total of 10 posts – first post on 12/14/15

    sdonne – total of 10 posts – first post on 9/14/15

    They frequently respond to each other’s posts and invariably agree with each other’s posts. Occasionally, Wizard of Ooze will “agree” with the post one of the group.

    What is one to conclude from this mysterious collection of facts? It’s a real puzzler.

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  30. Where is the MODERATOR? The attacks at the author (SAER) of the article are way too high in volume and intensity and the posts of the attackers do not contain comments concerning the article.

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  31. A good analysis, although AngloZionist is a catchphrase that makes it difficult to repost. Many who would profit from it would choke at “Zionist.” Yes, I know the backstory about the enormous influence of AIPAC, but for those who don’t, it would detract from the article’s more widespread credibility. Unless it’s actually a story detailing the nature of Zionism, I think it confuses the issue for a general audience, and is not relevant to the particular subject. Just a suggestion.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
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  32. The idea was to create a “sunnistan” encompassing Eastern Syria and Western Iraq . The number of actors with full future benefits from the arrangement include Israel,Qatar,Turkey,and Saudi. One can say that Saudi joined the fray not to be left out of th
    e developing realities and out of fear ,paranoia and total tribal safeguarding of dynastic interest

    The reality dawned on Saudi after the successful resistance of Hizbullah and after the exposures of the determined neocon’s efforts to splinter Syria .

    So will these actors now change ? I doubt. Obviously they have to come to US again ( they may not have left despite Kerry’s promises ) . How will they manage ?
    Obviously a general atmosphere of terror , false flag within US,France,and UK combined with hatred and polemics wont hurt and will keep the western chariot ready for war.

    Putin may not be able to escape so easily. America can always use the ‘soft power” of freedom of expression,election,gay right,sniper aiming at the crowd , out of blue public agitation for popular ideas and obviously the Caucasian warlords. It can even portray Putin as anti Christian to dent his support .

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  33. “The other matter which I think is important is that the U.S. convinced Turkey to withdraw their forces from the base outside Mosul in northern Iraq after the Iraqis publicly complained about that invading force”

    Turkey has been caught with its pants down – its support of ISIS is now known to all. It does not have a world media machine like the Jews – it cannot hide its evil like the Jew do.

    The world opinion against ISIS is so great that not even the Western Jew media can counter the truth of Turkey’s misdeeds. (Don’t you know it – Israeli Jews was reselling ISIS oil from Turkey.)

    The whole thing is just to dirty – the Zionist foreign policy of the US government had no choice but to put the breaks on Turkey.

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  34. Your count does not include the dozens of posts I’ve had censored on ” the saker”.

    You guys keep attacking messengers without ever discussing the facts we highlight.

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  35. Mishit. Sometimes the commenters are just the commenters, dude. I can any time express that I agree or disagree with anyone and that doesn’t make me a “group”, except only in your imagination. According to your twisted logic anyone can be a “group” then, including you. Get a life.

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  36. I have no idea why you wrote that comment but would like to deter you from making, or appearing to try and make, trivial points about grammar which are not even clearly correct.

    While it is certainly the convention in English to put a question mark at the end of a sentence containing a question [and why only at the end someone who speaks a language where the convention is to put one also at the beginning might ask] it is only of minor importance to ensuring rapid comprehension if there are clues like the word “why” used unambiguously to ask a question – just as tone of voice may suffice in oral communication.

    You are on just as shaky ground with commas. Historically commas, semi-colons and colons were, or were often, part of a scheme designed to indicate pause length for rhetorical effect in speech. Now they are exclusively an aid to conveying meaning unambiguously and efficiently. Typically to stop the reader from having to go back and check the proper grouping of words in a sentence. That is how I have used them above and, following the general rule that redundant punctuation should be avoided, no comma was needed in the sentence you quote. (I presume you have quoted it correctly as the medium I am using makes it difficult to check on the run).

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  37. “Sometimes the commenters are just the commenters” Exactly. Not having a clue about statistical distributions within a population some minds draw statistically invalid conclusions about patterns. Sex maniac will see a piece genitals anywhere and persons with persecution complex will see oppressors everywhere…Supposedly autistic persons have proclivity to look for patterns.

    I would like the MODERATOR to curtail the meta-discussion and redirect the commenters to the topic of Saker’s article. Hunting real or imaginary trolls is trolling itself, of the worst kind.

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  38. “…. the Russians command the Syrian air space.” I wish you were right. Look what happened yesterday.

    Hezbollah’s Al-Manar TV said two Israeli warplanes that violated Syrian airspace fired four long-range missiles at the residential building in Jaramana. It aired footage of what it said was the building, which appeared to be destroyed. Kantar’s brother, Bassam, confirmed his “martyrdom” in a Facebook post on Sunday.

    http://news.yahoo.com/hezbollah-says-lebanese-militant-killed-syria-airstrike-054136540.html

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  39. I think Putin is smart enough to know that Israel is looking at Russia as a new host plant.

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  40. “General Audiences” need to be brought up to speed.

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  41. In my first comment (comment #4) I was concerned about the role of Israel and its power and influence on Putin’s moves in Syria. Putin’s tough talk after the shooting down of Su-24 and beefing up of anti-aircraft defenses with S-300 and S-400 did not stop Israel from attacking Hezbollah commanders on the outskirts of Damascus yesterday. Is Russia going to tolerate it or is it part of a secret deal Putin made with Netanyahu?

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  42. Russia wins round two | Neoreactive
    says:
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    […] noreply@blogger.com (VD) That is The Saker’s take on the 11th week of the Syrian-war-by-proxy being fought between Russia and the USA after the US […]

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  43. The 4th Media » A Step Back from the Brink of WWIII?
    says:
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    […] This article was originally written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/week-eleven-of-the-russian-intervention-in-syria-a-step-back-from-the-bri… […]

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  44. I guess south-syria isnot covered yet, or else some Putin deal with Netanyahu. Which would be a pity.

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  45. “No, I pointed out the strangely perfect coordination of the messages.”

    Possibly by a troll tag team.

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  46. The author has already gave a response to your Q: “Russia has no intention of ever become an empire again simply because being an empire is bad for Russia. All Russia wants is to be a truly sovereign state and not to be a colony of the AngloZionists, but she has no intention whatsoever of becoming an “anti-USA” or a “Soviet Union reloaded”.

    Or perhaps they see an example of how not to do:
    “…from the massive Camp Victory outside Baghdad to tiny outposts in the hinterlands, not to speak of the three-quarters-of-a-billion dollar citadel Washington built in Baghdad’s green zone to house an embassy meant to be the central command post for a future Pax Americana in the region, the Pentagon built 505 bases in Iraq. In other words, Washington went on a base-building bender there. And lest you imagine this as some kind of anomaly, consider the 800 or more bases and outposts (depending on how you counted them) that the U.S. built in Afghanistan. Eight years later, all 505 of the Iraqi bases had been abandoned, as most of the Afghan ones would be.”

    http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176083/tomgram%3A_nick_turse%2C_a_shadow_war_and_an_american_drone_unit_under_wraps/#more

    The Federal Reserve has a printing press for the primal currency, hence the feats of unaccountability and sheer stupidity…

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  47. “…their politicians are just like ours”
    Correct. But the story is not about a person whom Mrs. Clinton calls “Hitler,” but about the Russian federation’ straggle to fight off the approaching and amoral parasitoids. As for where to educate your children, this is your personal solution and only yours. This is a free country.

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  48. was not the “Russian-made Buk” was the main point of accusations that the US leveled against Russian federation re MH-17?

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  49. Fighting terrorism.

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  50. Wiz, on the basis of this comment, I hereby rechristen you, “the Wizard of Pedantry.”

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  51. anonymous
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    Agreed. The different handles are pretending to respond to each other. Just a game being played.

    • Agree: tbraton
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  52. Perhaps Putin doesn’t want to control Syria. Perhaps he wants to sharpen the spear in Syria. Perhaps he wants to send the international community a message about Russian might.

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  53. Thank you for the link. Yes, indeed, the law you mentioned was enacted on 11th of November 2015 by the Russian State Duma and signed by president Putin. It’s full title: “Article 3_1. Features of the application of the legislation of the Russian Federation on countering extremist activities in respect of religious texts”:

    http://docs.cntd.ru/document/420317140

    It is insidious law, in fact. It implies that none of the religious writings – Bible, Koran, Torah, etc, can be interpretated and used against the religious feelings of the believers. It is surely designed to act in favor of the Jews in Russia (google Berel Lazar, the Chief Rabbi of Russia) to satisfy their constant complaints about “growing anti-semitism in Russia”. The trick is that this law can work both ways, and both are working against Orthodox Christians, i.e. the law can interpret and ban as “anti-semitic extremism” the citing of the quotes and excerpts from the Bible where the Jews are described negatively and blamed for many sins (Pharisees, etc)…And, at the same time, this the same law protects such extremist, fascist and misanthropic religious books as Jewish “Talmud”, “Torah” and “Shulchan Aruch”, factually tolerating the extreme hatred like this: “Act 2: Akum (Christian) are not to be considered by Jews as people” or this: “Law 26: Benefit from the fraud against Christian belongs to the Jewish owner”.

    So, as I said, the masks dropped. It is clear that Putin signed this law for a certain purposes. One must be completely blind to not see it. And he actually doesn’t hide his very warm relationships with Israel and with those Chabad guys, also known as Lubavitch, the Hasidic sect. Some call them the “Zionists”…No comments, as they say.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/11/vladimir_putin_chabad_what_s_behind_the_russian_president_s_close_relationship.html

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/20775

    P.S. “Appeal to the General Prosecutor of the Russian Federation”

    “Appeal to the General Prosecutor of the Russian Federation Vladimir Ustinov” and the signing of it by about 500 persons, including 19 members of the Duma.”

    “The “letter of 500″ and the authors and signatories are accused of “anti-Semitism” because that letter demands from the Attorney General “to officially begin a criminal process in order to prohibit in our country all the religious and national Jewish organizations as extremist.”

    “In the “Letter of 500″ this demand is motivated by the opinion of the authors and, therefore, the signatories, that the existing Jewish law, according to which such entities conduct their work, and summarized in the book “Shulchan Aruch”, published in Russia in 2001 in Russian language, is subject to the relevant articles of the Criminal Code, the Law “On Countering Extremist Activity” (2002) and Art. 13 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation (“the establishment and the functioning of public associations whose objectives are aimed at inciting social, racial, national and religious hatred”). The “Letter of 500″ also refers to a work of certain Dr. K. Ecker who interprets the laws of the Shulchan Aruch.”

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  54. Only my labrador could express more abject gratitude to you. No one has said such nice things about me since kindergarten. Sadly my attempt to ring appreciation out of family members for years of constructive and instructive precision is unrewarding.

    BTW what do you make of the would-be pedant’s misfired attempts to use his punctuation points in argument? Attempted satire or not on his medication or…?

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  55. I notice that Wizard of Ooze responded to your criticism of “Regnum Nostrum,” a poster I singled out four days ago for his relatively new creation (as a poster on unz.com) and for bearing an uncanny resemblance to Wizard of Ooze. http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/putin-throws-down-the-gauntlet/#comment-1262792 I am sure that was pure coincidence (just as Wizard of Ooze rushed to the defense of “Deduction” back in August) and not simply a mistake by Wizard of Ooze forgetting which name he was posting under, possibly because of having imbibed a glass too many of wine before dinner. BTW here is what I said in my post of four days ago: “He also states in this message “I do not understand why would anybody take this man seriously.” That line to me sounds suspiciously like something the Wizard of Ooze would say, who, just the other day, called, in effect, for a boycott of Mike’s blog. (Compare the line above to one on the Wizard of Ooze’s message of a few days ago: “What reason is there to use one’s time reading Mike Whitney?”) ” There is also the uncanny coincidence that all these characters post on just two blogs, The Saker and Mike Whitney. I do believe we have uncovered an “Axis of Weevils.”

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  56. Don’t die please. Perhaps the following would give you a clue. One of the versions of their plan is to restore the “Khazarian Kingdom”, which existed in 10th century and occupied exactly the part of eastern territory of Ukraine and part of Russia, namely the Donetsk, Lugansk, Rostov, Krasnodar and Crimea regions.

    The Khazarian kingdom was destroyed by the Russian Prince Oleg, so maybe there is also a revenge to Russians is among their other goals. The slaughter of the civilians in Donbass that the Kiev’s regime is calling the “ATO” is nothing other but ethnic cleansing of the Russian and pro-Russian population of the region: part of them are supposed to flee to Russia, part is to assimilate and the rest of the local people, the most active and capable for resistance, are doomed to be totally destroyed. As we can see, all of this is taking place today. This is the “preparing” of the territory for the Jews who would then all move from Israel to settle in those lands and create their “New Khazaria”.

    More details on here:

    http://www.zengardner.com/ukraine-return-khazarian-serpent-people/

    A remarkable book “Invisible Khazaria” contains fundamental research by the head of the department of geopolitics at the Military Academy of Russia, Colonel Tatyana Gracheva. The reader would learn not only about “Khazaria’s project” but much much more:

    http://www.islamvsdajjal.com/invisible-khazaria-new-world-order—strategies-tools-and-methods

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  57. Week Eleven of the Russian Intervention in Syria: a step back from the brink? | wchildblog
    says:
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    […] This article was originally written for the Unz Review:http://www.unz.com/tsaker/week-eleven-of-the-russian-intervention-in-syria-a-step-back-from-the-brin… […]

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  58. To those who comment tendentiously without acknowledging the obvious….There is absolutely nothing prima facie sinister about the Turks using information from the US directly or via NATO derived from Russia giving the US information about its flights in Syria so as to avoid clashes. Implicitly, if not explicitly (because it was too obvious to need spelling out) Russia would have been entrusting the US with the task of ensuring that its own and its allies’ aircraft avoided clashes with Russian aircraft when their flight plans were known in advance.

    If it is true that Erdogan at one stage claimed the decision to shoot down the Russian bomber was made by him it was probably true because his motives are not difficult to guess. One would be applause within Turkey for the strong man standing up against the traditional enemy. Another would be to put a spoke in US-Russian co-operation and put NATO on a spot whereby it was compromised by not having prevented the attack and, equally to the point, not having felt able to criticise Turkey for the cowardly ambush using information passed to it in good faith to enable such incidents to be avoided.

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  59. Skeletons In The Closet

    Excerpt #1: “You of Earth have been given two reprieves, the third shall not be given as such. It is a final WARNING that will come and you will know that the ending play will not be reversed. What you do, however, will make a difference in magnificence as to what shall be your experience.

    As a signal, I would suggest that whatever your “religion”, you pay attention- – -when the Pope of the Vatican flees Rome and seeks refuge in another land- – -KNOW THAT THE TIME IS RIPE! It will take place in secrecy but the word shall be leaked out that he has fled.” Phoenix Journal # 13, Chapter 1, page 17

    Excerpt #2: “Heed well this reminder- -watch unto Syria for therein lies the solution of world peace OR the third war of your world. It will be the destruction of three-quarters of the world. A world aflame followed by the great comet Ball of Redemption as it is sometimes called.” Phoenix Journal # 13, Chapter 2, page 28

    Commander Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn

    http://www.fourwinds10.net/journals/pdf/J013.pdf

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  60. “I would like the MODERATOR to curtail the meta-discussion and redirect the commenters to the topic of Saker’s article. Hunting real or imaginary trolls is trolling itself, of the worst kind.”

    I don’t know why you are wasting your words on “unvote.” Earlier today, “unvote,” who first posted on unz.com on December 16, four days ago, stated in one of his posts that he no longer reads The Saker’s blogs:

    “”Agree on the “Saker” as well. I’ve long ago noticed that the Saker’s narratives are always pro-Putin. This is why I stopped reading him.” ” [Notice how he implies he started reading The Saker "long ago" but only got around to posting just four days ago.]

    Since he has admitted he no longer reads The Saker, why would he waste his time reading the comments to The Saker’s blogs? That doesn’t make even a gram of sense to me. You clowns need to get your act together.

    BTW did you notice the similarity between “unvote”‘s comment that he no longer reads The Saker to Wizard of Ooze’s comment that everybody should no longer read Mike Whitney’s blogs and Regnum Nostrum’s similar comment that no one should take Mike Whitney seriously? Sounds like a boycott organized by Wizard of Ooze to me. When I discover that I no longer get any value from reading a particular blogger or poster, I simply no longer read him. I don’t waste my time urging others not to read him. And, btw, if I find a blogger not to my taste, I certainly don’t waste my time posting comments on his blog. I think Wizard of Ooze bears an uncanny resemblance to Enrique Marquez, Steve Sailer’s Man of the Year for 2015.

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  61. Sssssshhhh… don’t you know that asking logical questions makes you a troll?

    I guess that’s the FSB’s new strategy to deflect any criticism of arch-Zionist Putin.

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  62. The last link I gave – the web page appears without the content, don’t know why. Perhaps they removed it.

    Here is another one, with a link to the book:

    http://multipletext.com/2012/4-battle-for-statehood.html

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  63. True. But then a link explaining a phrase most are not familiar with, should be supplied. I’m trying to get this info out to a more general audience that doesn’t understand, lest we all just preach to the choir ;’)

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  64. LOL

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  65. VVP is the only leader in the world daring to stand up to the Zempire. And that’s why some people are getting nervous and think that an army of trolls slandering him will have any success. But it will not. Not in this day and age when there are enough sources of real info.

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  66. Since you’re already slithering into this rabbit warren, maybe you should take this along with you:

    The Donmeh sect of Judaism was founded in the 17th century by Rabbi Sabbatai Zevi, a Kabbalist who believed he was the Messiah but was forced to convert to Islam by Sultan Mehmet IV, the Ottoman ruler. Many of the rabbi’s followers, known as Sabbateans, but also “crypto-Jews,” publicly proclaimed their Islamic faith but secretly practiced their hybrid form of Judaism, which was unrecognized by mainstream Jewish rabbinical authorities. Because it was against their beliefs to marry outside their sect, the Dönmeh created a rather secretive sub-societal clan.

    The Dönmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret (Part I)

    http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/10/25/the-doenmeh-the-middle-easts-most-whispered-secret-part-i.html

    The Dönmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret (Part II)

    http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/10/26/the-doenmeh-the-middle-easts-most-whispered-secret-part-ii.html

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  67. Unless I’ve missed some irony I am delighted to be compared to anyone Steve Sailer may have chosen as man of the year. But I have a couple of problems with your post. One is that I haven’t urged people not to read Mike Whitney’s columns. The paranoid conspiracy finding spirit is too strong on these blogs it seems to recognise the uncomplicated and straightforward. I asked as I recall for anyone to explain why Mike Whitney should be regarded as worth reading on any subject. I gave some indication of why I was asking that question. That was what I genuinely invited. All I got in reply that I remember was that he had written a lot about some subject for 15 years!

    My other problem is with the childish repetition of “Wizard of Ooze”. All very well for someone either as an insult or because he fancies he’s been clever to think of it to say once e.g. “from the blogger whose turgid output makes me want to rename him ‘Wizard of Ooze’ ” but it smacks of the school playground to repeat the none-to-clever jibe. Consider how childish it would seem if someone repeatedly substituted “Ron Ants” for our publisher’s name, “Peter Frigid” for Peter Frost or “Rabid Carnivore” for Razib Khan.

    It may be just a matter of taste but it does strike me as unsophisticated sophomoric if not simply childish playground jeering.

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  68. Of course Putin doesn’t see Israel as THE major threat unless one concocts some long chain of influence by Israel on events vitally important to Russia that Putin is supposed to believe Israel has. It is a small country with no territorial interests in or near Russia. Its birthrate and standard of living are such as to make it vanishingly unlikely that it will provide terrorists within Russia or attacking Russian diplomatic or commercial outposts.

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  69. It might be good for your sanity if Ron were asked to certify (perhaps with degrees of probability) the non-troll status of particular Commenters. He would of course ask such commenters whether they wished to be so certified and it is quite possible that some might respond by saying, in effect, that they enjoyed the displays of stupidity, paranoia and anxiety too much for it to be worth being free of suspicion of being hasbara, an apologist for the government version on WTC7, a sceptic about the prevalence of false flag operations, and an all purpose doubter about suspicion attaching to the Ukraine generally and the downing oh MH17 in particular (to which add MH370).

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  70. “But I have a couple of problems with your post. One is that I haven’t urged people not to read Mike Whitney’s columns. ”

    And you wonder why I refer to you as “Wizard of Ooze”? In the very message to which you are replying, I specifically quoted the line you used not long ago on Mike Whitney’s blog: “What reason is there to use one’s time reading Mike Whitney?” If that does not constitute a strong suggestion to others not to waste their time reading Mike Whitney’s blogs, then why did you write it? You didn’t merely say that YOU weren’t going to use YOUR time reading Mike Whitney’s blogs, you questioned why anyone would use his time reading Mike Whitney’s blogs. Of course, if you decided that reading Mike Whitney’s blogs was a waste of your time, you could have simply stopped reading his blogs and walk away and say nothing, just as I suggested in an earlier message. That’s what I do all the time. So simple even a cave man can do it. The fact that you deny saying any such thing in the face of the direct quote staring you in the face just further demonstrates what an oily, slippery, and completely dishonest man you are, Wizard of Ooze.

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  71. “VVP is the only leader in the world daring to stand up to the Zempire.” We have lots of evidence to believe this statement is true. However, we also realize that VVP cannot conquer the Zempire. Therefore one must wonder what kind of compromise VVP is hoping to achieve? And what is the role of Israel in this? Will this compromise be at expense of Assad? And looking further, is China concerned that VVP may obtain too good a deal from the Zempire to detriment of China? Clearly the Zempire wants to deal with Russia and Chine one at a time. So, many things can go wrong. I am just apprehensive that with limited chess pieces that VVP has in his possession he will get outplayed by a lesser chess master who has a superior suit of chess figures.

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  72. Anonymous
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    Yeah right lol.

    No territorial interest. Where have we heard that one before?

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  73. I fully agree with the 9/11 Truth “conspiracy theory” that 9/11 was a false-flag attack. Because that conspiracy theory is be based on solid evidence that cannot be, and has not been effectively disputed or dealt with by anyone. Whereas the conspiracy theory being floated on this thread about Putin being some sort of a super-Zionist double agent is obviously being trotted out by Zionist trolls for the purpose of sowing confusion in the minds of readers. If not, you would offer at least some evidence to back it up. But I have seen none. Which leads me to conclude you are simply adhering firmly to the Mossad motto; “By deception thou shalt make war.” 5th columnist posing as anti-war commenters (like you) and anti-war writers (like the editors at the Jew-run web site, anti-war.com) are as easy to spot as orange jump suits in a snow bank. You just have to know where to look.

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  74. The Fool of Ooze achieved his 15 minutes of fame by stating not so long ago that the US and the Russian interests in Syria are the same – fighting ISIS.

    I hope The Fool will not challenge me the way he challenged you to have to search through his comments for the quote. I will not waste time.

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  75. As I said “in or near Russia” so how would you found your scepticism or case if you added that in?

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  76. No I can absolutely rely on the more perceptive readers of these comments to assume that one with your standards of literacy and logic has misrepresented what was said or missed a nuance or conditional statement.

    And if I said anything that could be so represented it would be their real interests on assumptions A,B and C. I can envisage hypothesising that they would have some shared interest and posing explicitly or by implication the question as to what might follow from that. But I appreciate that you suffer from passion if not an agenda so undrrstanding that would not be uour thing.

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  77. I’m sorry a difference in English usage has got in the way of understanding. When I got most of my formal education in Australia and in England the use of “one” as I apparently did would not have been understood to be meaning “anyone” – certainly not with a further translation into a recommendation to others – but would have been accepted as the normal way of removing ego from the utterance. Mind you one was conscious of the peculiarity because I can remember jokes being made many years ago at the way an older friend of similar educational background used the “one think” form to excess. I may read the rest of your reply if time allows but thought it worth replying to your founding misconception. Still wondering why I should bothet with Mike Whitney.

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  78. Now I have checked and invite anyone who wants to waste time confirming that Kiza’s understanding of the English language or his memory, or both, are unreliable by reading the whole of what he and I said on 25th October under The Saker’s Third Week of Russia in Syria. Unfortunately some dull and earnest people tried to be very literal with little success in advancing understanding or discussion. I suppose some were upset at what might appear to be a flippant suggestion that the US ignore Israel’s preferences and ME oil and leave it to others to wade into the mess.

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  79. That statement is much more than flippant, my compatriot. As I suggested on another comment of yours, you were dropped onto Earth from another planet, but onto your head: US to ignore Israel’s preferences!?!?!? Now that would be like John Cena ignoring the Vince McMahon’s ass: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/HowTo:Kiss_Ass.

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  80. OMG! you passed the language test. And did you have to know about Phar Lap and Don Bradman? Convict ancestry sort of grandfathered me.

    Well you haven’t passed the language test here again. I didn’t say that what I had said was flippant but that what I had said might appear to some to be flippant. (A better single epithet would have been “hypothetical” ).

    Of course it is vanishingly unlikely that the US will ignore what the Israel lobbyists say Israel’s interests and preferences are and even what they really are. But America’s real interests would be served by letting Russia fight it out with ISIL/ISIS and even entrench itself in the ME so that Russia might become as uneasy as Israel or Saudi Arabia at the prospect of Iran going nuclear. So what that Assad might survive under Russian protection and tutelage. Downside for US? No one so so scared of it any longer? Well it always has its drones to scare them with.

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  81. Damn, I did not pass that English language test that the distinguished Anglo-Zionist gentleman set up for me here. But the consolation is that, as a friend of mine said, you AngloZios could only be barking if you did not speak Englsh. On the other hand, someone could say that I never wrote that the destiguished gentleman said for himself that he was flippant, then I just set the second stage i.e. comparative: worse than flippant, whithout specifying who used the positive degree of the adjective flippant.

    The rest of the comment is the usual pie-in-the-sky (of another planet) rant, the totally worn out Zio talking point of Nuclear Iran and other blah, blah, which deserve zero response.

    I really have other things to do then to sit for an English language test at H.R.M. Fool of Ooze language school.

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  82. THE STRANGE NOISES COMING OUT OF GERMANY

    http://gizadeathstar.com/2015/12/the-strange-noises-coming-out-of-germany/

    “The noises coming out of Germany have been strange and contradictory for some time… really, if one goes all the way back to the aftermath of World War Two, but, more recently under Frau Merkel’s government. Now it is in favor of a more active and interventionist foreign policy, now it isn’t; now it does have enough troops and equipment to support France, then it did not. Yesterday it would not cooperate in any venture In Syria without an agreement that Assad must go; now it seems ready to reopen its embassy in Damascus”

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  83. Thanks RobinG === a must read.

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  84. Hi, Robin.

    I tried the links above and both take me to the same webpage, showcasing about a dozen articles, none of which seem to be related to the topic you noted above. Am I missing something?

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  85. Avery, just wanted to pick up where we left off last time (week 7 comments, I believe) we discussed the issue of “bargaining chips.” Here’s your previous comment:

    geokat62: They needed a bargaining chip with which to entice the Russians to abandon the Syrians and Iranians…}

    Avery: Ukraine is no bargaining chip.
    Ukraine, Kievan Rus, is the cradle of Russia.
    Nothing for Russia to bargain away there.
    Russia does not want trouble there right now: she is biding her time.
    Testing, demonstrating,a and improving her military in actual combat.
    Some T-160s flew a long circuitous rout over the Atlantic, skirting UK, to bomb Syria: there was a reason. A message.

    There is nothing Neocons have to entice either Russia or Iran to abandon Syria. And both Russian and Iranian leaders know Neocons are mortal enemy to both. Neocons’ ultimate goal is not Syria or Iran: their goal is dismemberment of Russia. Dismemberment of Syria, then Iran, is part of the Grand plan to get to Russia.
    So far they have failed.

    Russia and Iran have not pulled all stops to save Syria to bargain it away.
    They need to save Syria to secure a Shia arc, in order to block the cancerous spread of Sunni Wahhabism, aided and abetted by Neocon psychos.

    I just stumbled upon this recent article as I was trying to access a couple of articles RobinG linked to in another thread (thanks, RobinG):

    US Secretary of State John Kerry was in Moscow this week bearing what can only be described as a bribe to Russia. The unspoken essence of Washington’s arm twisting towards Moscow is this: give us Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad’s head on a platter – and we’ll call off the dogs of war in Ukraine. The latter part of the deal also comes with the added “sweetener» that the US and its European allies would lift economic sanctions off Russia.

    http://m.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/12/17/us-leverages-ukraine-for-regime-change-syria.html

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  86. geokat62:

    You will read all sorts of stuff in the blogosphere, as I am sure you well know.
    Some of it is authentic: a lot is misinformation and disinformation.
    And obviously I have no inside information: whatever assertions I make is based on my knowledge of public information and my analysis, my interpretation.

    It is quite possible this offer was made to Putin: {give us Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad’s head on a platter – and we’ll call off the dogs of war in Ukraine.}. However he will not bite.

    Putin knows the following:

    1. West made the same offer to Gorbachev about not expanding NATO Eastward. They lied, and lied, and lied, ….
    2. NATO is still trying to entice Republic of Georgia into its orbit.
    3. NATO recently offered membership to Montenegro, right next to Serbia.
    4. Neocons will not call off the dogs in Ukraine. They have no dogs to call off. Their dogs were badly mauled by Novorossiya patriots. Other than Azov battalion Neo-Nazi scum, Ukrainians are avoiding the draft like the plague. Novorossiyan patriots are now a very competent fighting force.
    5. There is nothing more EU or Neocons can do against Russia in Ukraine. Time is on the side of Novorussians and Russia. They sit and wait for Porky to make a move: then they will liberate more of Novorossiya.
    6. Whatever EU, US, Neocons promise Russia is a lie: they will never honor their promises. Ever.

    {The latter part of the deal also comes with the added “sweetener» that the US and its European allies would lift economic sanctions off Russia.}

    Sanctions have caused hardship to Russian economy, but have also caused billions of lost sales to EU countries. Russia is slowly adapting. Russia knows she must win the sanctions staredown and immunize itself, because EU will do it again. Other countries are lining up to replace EU agriculture (e.g. beef from Argentina, Brazil,…)

    There is an ugly saying that applies here: “doing someone a favour with somebody else’s arse”. US Neocons are using and abusing EU for their geopolitical goals. Sanctions are highly unpopular amongst the EU people.

    And nobody knows what Putin and his inner circle are thinking or planning.
    Case in point: there were all sorts of theories about what Russians would do in Crimea. All sorts of talking heads confidently asserting that Putin would do this or that.
    Then one morning everybody woke up to Russian “little green men” appearing out of nowhere, and it was all over.

    Putin is a Russian patriot.
    He is not a drunkard like Yeltsin. Or an idiot (or agent) like Gorbachev.
    He has an experienced team around him.
    Medvedev is a little weak, but others are experienced patriots as well.
    They know what Neocons have in mind for Russia.

    Petrushev (the spy chief) wrote an article about Neocon plans for Russia a while back.
    If I find it, I will post the link: must read if you want to have idea what Russians think of Neocons.
    Nobody in Russia has any illusions.
    Russian people are firmly behind their leadership, and are gradually turning against the West.
    Russia may husband her resources here and there, but Ukraine, Syria, and Iran are non negotiable.

    At least that’s the way I see it.

    • Agree: Kiza
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  87. Here is short version from RT.
    But there is a longer one: he details the reasons why Neocons want to dismember Russia. I am pretty sure will find it eventually.

    [‘US would like Russia to cease to exist as a country’ – Russia’s top security official ]

    https://www.rt.com/news/268774-russia-us-security–patrushev/

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  88. That’s funny. I just tried these links, and they jump to “The Donmeh….” article be Wayne Madsen. Sorry.

    I don’t know what anybody thinks of Madsen. He typically goes in depth into some sensational story (the Lincoln, NE, pedophile ring for example). This Donmeh business is his typical convoluted expose. BTW, I don’t go looking for this stuff, somebody sent it to me.

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  89. {……have also caused billions of lost sales to EU countries.}

    [German Business Sharply Protests EU Sanctions Against Russia]

    http://russia-insider.com/en/german-business-sharply-protests-eu-sanctions-against-russia/ri11955

    “After suffering a loss of 6.5 billion euros in 2014, German exports to Russia will be expected to decline another 8.5 billion euros in 2015. Even considering the trade with Ukraine and other countries in the region, we will continue to see massive losses.”

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  90. “give us Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad’s head on a platter – and we’ll call off the dogs of war in Ukraine”

    The undiplomatic terms put out by the Zionist fascist foreign policy of the US government, “Dear Russia – we will stop the Ukrainian fascists from killing ethic Russians – if you will let us kill Syrian ethnic minorities.” (Oh yes Russia, not to fear – Mufti Netanyahu approves this.)

    Such a deal.

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  91. Thanks for your analysis, Avery. All I can say is, I hope you’re right.

    Regarding the following comment:

    Putin is a Russian patriot.
    He is not a drunkard like Yeltsin.

    have you ever viewed the documentary, The Rise and Fall of the Russian Oligarchs? A must see:

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  92. In my prior post, I pointed out the recent creation dates for some new posters who had been challenged by poster 5371 that ranged from December 11 to December 16, 2015. That caused me to wonder what happened around that time to explain the sudden appearance of weevils on The Saker’s column. Then I discovered that The Saker’s previous column dealing with Week 10 had been published on December 12. Regnum Nostrum’s first post on unz.com appeared on December 13 in response to The Saker’s Week 10 column, for example. Another interesting thing I discovered was that, of the 143 messages posted thus far in response to Week 10, not a single one came from the Wizard of Ooze. At least not under his own name.

    In contrast, The Saker’s most recent column dealing with Week 11 was published on December 19. After I posted message #29 above pointing out the unusual similarities among the various new posters, who appeared, as if by magic, to post message #36 but the Wizard of Ooze himself. Then Wizard of Ooze came awake like Rip Van Winkle and posted a series of 9 messages over the next two days (#54, 58, 67-69, 75-78 and 80). To put that in context, Wizard of Ooze posted nothing in response to Saker’s Week 10 but in response to Week 11 posted a total of 10 messages from #36 through #87 or 10 out of the last 52 messages or close to 20% . Whew! That’s a lot.

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  93. The apparently schizophrenic German government behaves like this because the whole of Germany is divided into two powerful camps: a Germany first camp and a US/NATO first camp. Outside, we observe a tug-of-war between the two camps. In the long term, we should bet on the Germany-first camp winning.

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  94. The clarity of projection re bribe: no morals and no intelligence, just a firm belief that everything can be bought and sold.

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  95. “Whatever EU, US, Neocons promise Russia is a lie: they will never honor their promises. Ever.”
    On point.

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  96. VVP doesn’t want to conquer the Zempire, just to protect his country from it. And clearly Syria is important, otherwise they would not have gone to all that trouble there, and would have just let it go like Libya. I also don’t think either Russia or China would be that foolish to think they can abandon each other and make separate deals with the Zempire. I mean big stuff regarding betrayal and survival, not minor deals.

    I also think Russia has just the right set of figures to play this game of chess, and what’s more important – the master who can play it. I wouldn’t rely only on Saker’s analysis, but go and read news and analysis on Russian sites too, like Russia Today, Strategic Culture Foundation, Sputnik News, etc. Even the reaction of trolls is interesting, the way they rush to slander or damage control tells a lot about the importance of some news.

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  97. “Why do they hate us? … They hate our freedoms” (Prez Bush the lesser)

    From the comment section on Saker:

    “In Syria under Assad, we had free education & healthcare system for 40 years, something Democrats have been trying to do in US for 300 yrs
    In Libya under Ghaddifi, we had free education & healthcare system for 40 years, something Democrats have been trying to do in US for 300 yrs
    In Iraq under Saddam, we had free education & healthcare system for 40 years, something Democrats have been trying to do in US for 300 yrs”

    Ouch!

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  98. You might be right. The first camp perhaps subscribes to Bismarck’s dictum: “The secret of politics? Make a good treaty with Russia.” Germany did not follow it and got itself into the WWI and after that all was downhill.

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  99. I never found true nationalists a problem, because those who fight for their own nation tend to respect other people’s nations as well. They are better than imperialists and globalists, who imagine that they have the right to rule everyone. Germany has a better balance between two points of view than the US, where most of the ruling elite are corrupt imperialists.

    Therefore, we really want the German nationalists who will respect other Europeans and who will run Germany according to its economic interests, instead of engaging in military adventures either with US/NATO or on their own.

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  100. Fantastic theory of Seymour Hersh

    http://www.vox.com/2015/12/21/10634002/seymour-hersh-syria-joint-chiefs

    It seems far fetched but it may account for schizophrenic behavior of the US with respect to Syria and it may explain boldness of Putin moves and strange acquiescence of Israel. Most importantly it gives us hope that there are patriotic and sensible forces in US military opposing irresponsible and criminal adventurism of neocons and opportunism of Obama.

    Personally, I like v. much but I am afraid it it a wishful thinking on the part of Hersh shared by many people with similar sentiments, including me.

    Most importantly this theory explains the boldness of Putin’s moves and Netanyahu acquiescence. So I expect the theory will be attacked by neocons in the US and pro Putin yahoos and cowboys. I am really curious how Saker will respond, if at all, to it.

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  101. Putin’s desire to prevent Assad from suffering the same fate as Gaddafi.

    Putin had watched a video of Gaddafi’s savage death three times, a video that shows him being sodomised with a bayonet. The JCS adviser also told me of a US intelligence assessment which concluded that Putin had been appalled by Gaddafi’s fate: ‘Putin blamed himself for letting Gaddafi go, for not playing a strong role behind the scenes’ at the UN when the Western coalition was lobbying to be allowed to undertake the airstrikes that destroyed the regime. ‘Putin believed that unless he got engaged Bashar would suffer the same fate – mutilated – and he’d see the destruction of his allies in Syria.’

    From Seymour Hersh article:

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military

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  102. Pessimistic ending of Seymour Hersh article

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military

    “The military’s indirect pathway to Assad disappeared with Dempsey’s retirement in September. His replacement as chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Joseph Dunford, testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee in July, two months before assuming office. ‘If you want to talk about a nation that could pose an existential threat to the United States, I’d have to point to Russia,’ Dunford said. ‘If you look at their behaviour, it’s nothing short of alarming.’ In October, as chairman, Dunford dismissed the Russian bombing efforts in Syria, telling the same committee that Russia ‘is not fighting’ IS. He added that America must ‘work with Turkish partners to secure the northern border of Syria’ and ‘do all we can to enable vetted Syrian opposition forces’ – i.e. the ‘moderates’ – to fight the extremists.”

    “Obama now has a more compliant Pentagon. There will be no more indirect challenges from the military leadership to his policy of disdain for Assad and support for Erdoğan. “

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  103. …at the UN when the Western coalition was lobbying to be allowed to undertake the airstrikes that destroyed the regime…

    Strictly speaking, the Western regimes never lobbied at the UN “to be allowed to undertake the airstrikes that destroyed the regime”, they lobbied for a UN resolution to condemn both sides (Libyan Gov and the Western sponsored “moderate rebels”) to respect the rights of civilians. This resolution was later interpreted-away by Western regime lawyers as a right to bomb Libya and change Gaddafi government. Why is this nit-picking important? Because it shows that Russia and China should veto any UN resolution which even most remotely can be interpreted as a right to intervene.

    The West will attack its victim anyway, but at least do not make it easy for their media-legal establishment to claim legality of something so blatantly illegal.

    • Agree: geokat62
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  104. Thanks, utu.

    I have yet to read the original Hersh story, but this guy at Vox, while trying to discredit Hersh, does a decent hack job on himself. For example, he claims the sarin false flag was never substantiated, but Turkey is now thoroughly implicated. And as for Hersh having only one source, there was only one Deep Throat. Even if the conspiracy is unproven, we know that Dempsey put the kibosh on Obama’s 2013 assault on Syria.

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  105. Far-right Russian nationalists are rooting for Putin to fail, just for different reasons than the anti-Russians elsewhere. There’s a fantasy among various Duginites and neo-Czarists that a great wave of ultra-nationalist “patriotism” will sweep through Russia, bring about Orthodox “popular monarchy,” brush aside the interests of non-Orthodox Russian citizens, and restore the glory of the Empire. They had hoped that the Donbass rebellion would be the catalyst. The Saker’s characterization of the “hurrah patriots” like unvote and his cronies here is on the money.

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  106. Vox is a hack job. I cited it because at that time it was the only source I had. Since then I gave url for the original.

    At 2013 I was not following the stories too carefully so I missed quite a lot. I wonder if the dismissal of Chuck Hagel was related to Syria as well? Or on which side was Hagel?

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  107. By the way, what ever happened to ‘Sean’? He hasn’t posted on this thread yet.

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  108. Germany did make one very good treaty with Russia, the 1922 Rapallo Treaty that pulled Germany back from the brink of mass starvation and offered hope for regained sovereignty. But the toadies were lured into abandoning it by the false promises of the Locarno Treaty of 1924 that laid the foundation for Weimar Germany’s collapse.

    Bismarck’s dictum applies to Poland as well, but the Poles seem too blinded by national delusions of grandeur and hateful stupidity to realize it.

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  109. The original story was published in London Review of Books, the only Western magazine left willing to accept Hersh’s articles, because they are too informative for the small brains of the MSM consumers (could explode).

    On another matter, we have heard before that Iraq’s leadership may call Russia for help against ISIS. The latest news is that the Foreign Minister of the Libyan Unity Government has announced that Libya may also call Russia for help against ISIS. Thus, it appears that the Western “humanitarians” are not being asked anywhere any more to fight their own child ISIS, except in the Western Fairytale MSM.

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  110. Yes I have. It is very good.
    It is must see.

    And that is why Neocons hate Putin with a passion.
    He pissed on their parade.
    He stopped the looting of Russia by the all the domestic and foreign gangsters.
    Unfortunately, they had already liquidated and taken out of Russia $100s billions of Russia’s national wealth that rightfully belonged to the long suffering people of Russia.

    And I am very happy the vile gangster thief Berezovsky died a broke and broken scum like he was.

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  111. I think he signed up for the Lindsey Graham campaign. With today’s action, maybe we will be seeing more of him, unless he signs up for the George Pataki campaign.

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  112. The battle for the M5 highway south of Aleppo has, in the past 48 hours, seen the elimination of the Al Qaeda salient centered on Khan Tuman and penetration by the SAA forces to the highway west of Khan Tuman. SAA is also at the highway at Zerba to the south. The Al Qaeda forces defending M5 are holding on by their toenails along a front ~30 km long south of Aleppo. M5 is important for the defense against Al Qaeda west of Aleppo and for opening operations in the direction of Idlib.

    http://militarymaps.info/

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  113. ” the only Western magazine left willing to accept Hersh’s articles”

    Hersh used to be published by New Yorker and other main stream magazines. He wrote about My Lai, about Samson Option. I do not think that Hersh got radicalized that he has changed over years. No, the Zeitgeist has changed. We are living in reactionary times. Neoliberals decide on our economics and neoconservatives on our politics. It is very sad and dispiriting.

    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
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  114. What other things do you have to do? I guess your age is well within the usual working life span but you are unemplo yed. It could be a rich man’s eccentricity to fool around with actual or simulated passion on a website such as this but I guess you are not rich so why are you unemployed? Or is it “resting” between bit parts in TV crime series?

    And BTW it is an intelligence rather than language test that you have failed in associating me with Zionism or Zionists as those Commenters who care enough to attend and are smart would readily explain to you.

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  115. A new article from Hersh -

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military


    Obama now has a more compliant Pentagon. There will be no more indirect challenges from the military leadership to his policy of disdain for Assad and support for Erdoğan. Dempsey and his associates remain mystified by Obama’s continued public defence of Erdoğan, given the American intelligence community’s strong case against him – and the evidence that Obama, in private, accepts that case. ‘We know what you’re doing with the radicals in Syria,’ the president told Erdoğan’s intelligence chief at a tense meeting at the White House (as I reported in the LRB of 17 April 2014). The Joint Chiefs and the DIA were constantly telling Washington’s leadership of the jihadist threat in Syria, and of Turkey’s support for it. The message was never listened to. Why not?”

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  116. Syria: Back From The Brink? | Western Rifle Shooters Association
    says:
    • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment

    […] Analysis from The Saker. […]

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  117. CHINA COULD SUPPORT ASSAD

    The Hersh article is great, even though in the 1st paragraph he says,
    “….Obama is captive to Cold War thinking about Russia and China, and hasn’t adjusted his stance on Syria to the fact both countries share Washington’s anxiety about the spread of terrorism in and beyond Syria; like Washington, they believe that Islamic State must be stopped.”
    (Since up to now Obama has been facilitating ISIS and sowing chaos, not clear what Russia and China ‘share’ with Washington.)

    Towards the end, Hersh cites Christina Lin. I don’t know if this is the paper Hersh refers to, but looks interesting.

    With Assad’s Permission, China Can Send Troops to Combat Chinese Terror Group TIP in Syria

    This brief discusses the Turkish backed Chinese Uyghur terrorist group the Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP), which is part of the “Army of Conquest” coalition of numerous Syrian Islamist rebel factions fighting the al-Assad government. The author explains that as TIP continues to grow in power and size, recently accessing MIG fighter jets and advanced weaponry from a captured Syrian airbase and settling Uyghur populations in villages that expelled local Syrian residents, the group now poses a threat to what the Chinese government describes as its country’s core interests. She then explains that because TIP threatens these core interests China could intervene in Syria militarily and that if this intervention was requested by the Assad regime it would be permissible under international law.

    http://www.isn.ethz.ch/Digital-Library/Publications/Detail/?ots783=0c54e3b3-1e9c-be1e-2c24-a6a8c7060233&lng=en&id=193829

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  118. To be fair, there are constructive critics among them as well as the opposite. It’s among the unappeasable that false-flag enemies of Russia predominate.

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  119. Yes, language usage does change with time, as you correctly note. Still there are schools of language (same with Latin), and some of us who are a little older use earlier comma usage (e.g. a comma before “and” when enumerating a list.

    All these language lessons detract from the learning experience from sharing information. Could you add more information to the discussion via links to articles that illuminate the discussion of the article being discussed? If you don’t like Mike Whitney that just refrain from commenting. I am sure you can find blogs that better suit your viewpoints.

    I would also agree with your comment that Erdogen ordered the downing of the SU-24, although the Prime Minister and the Air Force chief also wanted to take the credit. I would not discount the theory that Erdogen got the go-ahead from the Obama Administration (whatever that is). One of the last of Col. Boyd’s team, that developed the F-15 and the A-10, made a detailed analysis of the Turkey shoot.

    I would expect that Turkey is headed toward becoming a failed state after threatening Russia. I suggest you look at the natural gas pipelines to Turkey, the winter gas use and the lack of gas storage capacity. Also consider that El Nino will push the cold arctic aid toward Central Europe and the Middle East. Ukraine also lacks gas storage and gas flows from Russia meaning less Russian gas to Turkey via the Trans-balkan pipeline.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
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  120. RUSSIA & UKRAINE – Johnson’s Russia List :: JRL 2015-#247 :: Monday 21 December 2015 – Johnson's Russia List
    says:
    • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment

    […] over the last month which give Russia a decisive advantage. 32. The Unz Review: The Saker, Week Eleven of the Russian Intervention in Syria: A Step Back from the Brink? 33. Irrussianality: Paul Robinson, DEMOCRACY ≠ LIBERALISM. 34. Russia Direct: US-Russia relations […]

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  121. I am not sure if Syria needs China to intervene, but since the West likes coalitions to make its, usually illegal, interventions also international, maybe it would look better to have a proper anti-ISIS coalition. It would replace the false Western one.

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  122. “The message was never listened to. Why not?”

    The probable overriding interests: 1. Greater Israel. 2. A festering wound in the Middle East, which has a potential to sucking out Russian resources.

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  123. annamarina:

    You left out the first part of the question you quoted: “The Joint Chiefs and the DIA were constantly telling Washington’s leadership of the jihadist threat in Syria, and of Turkey’s support for it. The message was never listened to. Why not?”

    Turkey.

    The real festering wound in Middle East is the genocidal, criminal state of Turkey.
    Israel has killed or murdered maybe 25K-30K Palestinians since its founding.
    Turks have murdered millions of Christians and Muslims (Arabs, Kurds,…) since they invaded Asia Minor and Middle East.

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  124. Maybe it’s not exactly a treaty, but don’t forget about the Dreikaiserbund – the short-lived alliance between Russia, Germany & Austria. Bismarck knew that allowing Russia to fall into an alliance with France and/or Britain would encircle Germany.

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  125. genocidal Uyguroğlar Turks have declared open season on Kurd civilians:

    [HRW: Over 100 civilians killed in southeastern Turkey since July]

    http://www.todayszaman.com/national_hrw-over-100-civilians-killed-in-southeastern-turkey-since-july_407611.html

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  126. Lindsay Graham – ha, ha! Good one, t.

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  127. “One of the last of Col. Boyd’s team, that developed the F-15 and the A-10, made a detailed analysis of the Turkey shoot. ”

    krollchem, if it’s not too much trouble, could you post a link to that analysis?

    BTW, it appears that both you and the Wizard of Ooze are neglecting reports that the U.S. had an AWACS plane that departed from Greece and the Saudis had an AWACS plane depart from one of their bases about the same time, both heading toward Syria around the time of the shoot down. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=588_1449008088&comments=1
    They obviously could have provided exact radar positioning of the Russian Su-24 to the Turkish F-16, which was flying at a low altitude to avoid detection by Russian radar and not having to deploy its own radar (which would have alerted the Russian plane). Coupling that fact with the fact that the U.S. provided the Russian flight info to the Turks, which allowed the Turks to position their F-16s in the general area of the Russian flight path, seems to conclusively indicate that not only did the U.S. have advance knowledge of the shoot down but was a planner of the shoot down.

    BTW your advice to Wizard of Ooze to avoid language seminars on these blogs is sound. Furthermore, it appears that Wizard of Ooze’s proclaimed expertise in the area of English punctuation and grammar is greatly exaggerated and often wrong.

    • Agree: Kiza
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  128. It is doubtful that the US care much about Turkey. Turkey certainly has been used in the geopolitical games but she will not be allowed to do what she really wants to do but will be guided to make steps in compliance with the wishes of the Empire of Federal Reserve.

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  129. Hey Krol,

    The Olde Wizzer’s only purpose here is protecting Israel and trying to make himself look good at others’ expense. I’m just as happy if he keeps his sharing to himself, since what he likes is asserting Jewish superiority via HBD. Consider ignoring.

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  130. Right. I just posted that link b/c there was prior chatter about whether China had, would, or should involve in Syria…..in case the China watchers would find interesting.

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  131. The Franco-Russian alliance only became a problem once France surrendered to Britain in the colonial competition and concluded the entente cordiale. The possibility of France and Russia going to war together against Germany had actually been more pressing before the alliance was made than after. As long as the Franco-British antagonism remained, the Franco-Russian alliance helped keep the peace and did not spoil Russo-German relations.

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  132. tbraton,

    Here is the link you requested.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/11/f-16-designer-turkey-set-up-an-ambush-for-unsuspecting-russian-su-24/

    The author, Pierre Sprey was one of about six acolytes of Col . Boyd who developed the F16 over the objections of the Air Force generals. Sprey is best know for his efforts in creating the A10. See the book titled Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War

    my favorite quote from col. Boyd “One day you will take a fork in the road, and you’re going to have to make a decision about which direction you want to go. If you go one way, you can be somebody. You will have to make your compromises and … turn your back on your friends, but you will be a member of the club, and you will get promoted and get good assignments. Or you can go the other way, and you can do something, something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. … You may not get promoted, and you may not get good assignments, and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors, but you won’t have to compromise yourself. … In life there is often a roll call. That’s when you have to make a decision: to be or to do.”

    –Col. John Boyd

    Thanks for the AWACS link!

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  133. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer#Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine

    Read The Tragedy of Great Power Politics by John Mearsheimer. The 1905 Revolution in Russia crippled Russia as a military force for several years and made Germany a potential hegemon. The 1905 removal of Russia as a counterweight to Germany was what was what made Britain decide it needed a crash program of military preparations and expansion to balance the sudden relative power increase of Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Henry_Wilson,_1st_Baronet

    For geographical reasons that should be obvious, Germany was a natural enemy of Russia and France, which were as a result natural allies. Germany threw away a golden opportunity by not attacking France in 1905, when Russia would have been to crushed and Britain still lacked a large enough army to meaningfully intervene.

    There is one similarity between Russia in Syria and the Americans in Afghanistan and that is they are both foreigners trying to justify a intervention in support of a puppet (who died and left Assad king of Syria?). Just as southern Afghanistan is being inexorably retaken by the people who live there, Syria will wear down all the foreign forces.

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  134. You don’t know any more about hundred-year-old history than you do about the present day. Can’t say I’m surprised.

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  135. Thanks for the link, krollchem.

    BTW I can see why you admire Col. Boyd. Unfortunately, the likes of him are in apparent short supply these days in America.