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So, finally, the suspense is over. Kind of. The US Treasury has finally released the list of Russian entities and individuals which could (conditionally!) be sanctioned by the US Treasury in compliance with the H.R.3364 – Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. These two short excerpt from the report show why I say “could”:

and

Now let’s translate all this in plain English: the US took a copy of the Kremlin telephone book, then a copy of Forbes and created a new list combining both. Then the US proclaimed that these entities and individuals are not under any sanctions yet, but are candidates for such sanctions.

Does that make *any* sense to you *at all*?!

Well, if it does, stop reading and enjoy your unique gifts. If it does not, then don’t feel bad as this makes no sense whatsoever for anybody in Russia either. Oh how I wish modern technologies would make it possible for me to post here all the recent interviews, articles, talk-shows and public statements made in Russia for the past 24 hours! To say that the Russians are baffled is, really, an understatement.

Two things are noteworthy: first, this list completely ignores one of the most important realities of Russian politics: that the real, dangerous, opposition to Putin is not from the people (who support him at anywhere between 60% to 80%+) or from the Russian media (which, while often critical, does not represent a real threat to him) or even the Duma (whose opposition parties are critical of the Kremlin, but who are very careful about criticizing Putin himself lest they lose support from the people) . For years now I have been explaining that the real opposition to Putin is a) inside the ruling elites, including the Presidential Administration and the Government and b) big money: banks, oligarchs, etc. I call this (informal) opposition the “Atlantic Integrationists” because what these pro-western globalists want is for the AngloZionist Empire to accept Russia as an equal partner and to have Russia fully integrate itself into the US-controlled international financial and security structures: WTO, NATO, EU, G7/8, etc. Very roughly speaking you could call them as the “Medvedev people” (but you could also say that the Ministers in charge of the Russian economy all fall into this category, as do almost all the heads of Russian banks). I call the (informal) group supporting Putin the “Eurasian Sovereignists“. These are the folks who see the future of Russia in the South, East and even North, who want to pull Russia out of the AngloZionist international financial and security structures and who want a truly sovereign Russia to contribute to a new truly multi-polar world in collaboration with countries like China or the other BRICS countries. Very roughly you could call these people the “Putin people” (but you could also say that figures such as Ivanov, Rogozin, Shoigu and a few others are key personalities).

This is important because the this list of (potentially sanctioned) people makes absolutely no distinctions between these two groups. Check out this article on RT entitled “Major Russian bank will no longer service defense industry over US sanctions fears“. It quotes the Alfa Bank CEO Mikhail Fridman whose net worth is estimated at $16.2 billion by Forbes,saying that in magazine that Alfa-Bank was cutting ties with the Russia’s defense industry, adding, “What can we do?”. Now look at the list, Appendix II, entry #23. Do you see who is there? Yup, the very same Mikhail Fridman!

Now let me add this: in the current political climate in Russia, to have bank accounts in the West is considered shameful and unpatriotic and that is something which even most dishonest and hypocritical Eurasian Sovereignists can hardly afford for political reasons (that does not mean that some don’t try, they do, but at a great political risk). In contrast, among Atlantic Integrationists, whose power and influence does not depend on public opinion, having assets abroad is much less dangerous and, therefore, much more common.

Now that the the US Treasury has released this “list of marked individuals” (and their families, relatives or associated corporate entities) for potential, unspecified, future sanction, who do you think will freak out most, the Eurasian Sovereignists or the Atlantic Integrationists? Then look a step further and forget about the US for a second: Russia is trying hard to work with the Europeans on many join projects. What do you think the creation of such a list will have on joint ventures between EU and Russian businessmen? I predict two things:

  1. It will place a great deal of pressure on EU corporations not to do business with the Russians and, therefore, it will further place the EU and the US on a collision course.
  2. It will hurt the Atlantic Integrationists where it hurts them the most: in their financial interests.

Frankly, if I were paid to think long and hard about how to come up with the dumbest and most self-defeating foreign policy decision for the US I could never do better than what the Trump Administration and Congress have just done. This is, by the way, something which all Russian analysts agree with. What they don’t agree with are the reasons for that seemingly completely and terminally stupid move. Here are the various schools of thought in Russia on that account:

Group One: “the slap in the face of Russia”:

They believe that the sole intention was to insult and humiliate Russia by basically declaring that all the top Russian people are gangsters. According to them, there ain’t much the US can do to Russia other than to continue a petty war of insults and harassment (like the expulsion of Russian diplomats and the seizure of Russian consular buildings in the US).

Group Two: “it’s all internal US politics”:

ORDER IT NOW

That groups says that this has nothing to do with Russia at all. According to them, the US economy is doing well under Trump, the Democrats have nothing to use against him so all they do is continue to hammer the “Russian threat” fairytale to which Trump responds with deliberately ineffective and totally symbolic actions which make it look like he is anti-Russian when in reality he is quietly sabotaging the Democrats’ attempts at truly worsening relations with Russia and preventing the Democrats from playing the “Russian threat” card against Trump.

Group Three: “Трамп Наш” (Тrump is ours):

No, nobody in Russian seriously thinks Trump is a Russian agent or is somehow “owned” by Russia—they say that as a joke, always laughing. But what they do mean is that deep down Trump is a friend of Russia and is actually helping Russia and Putin. How? By taking all sorts of measures which only hurt the US while very powerfully helping Russia (for example, by forcing Russian oligarchs to bring their foreign assets back to Russia). Some even go as far as saying that this list is most damaging to the people opposed to Putin and that it gives him a pretext to fire them all after the Presidential elections in Russia. Far from considering Trump a bumbling idiot, this group sees him as a consummate politician who is actually creating the circumstances to really hurt his (real) enemies and help his (real) friends.

Group Four: “Наших бьют!” (Our people are under attack!):

This is the group which doesn’t care at all why the US is doing this or that, no matter how clumsy. All they care about is that this is yet another attack on “our people” (meaning Russian individuals or corporate entities) and that means that Russians should “circle the wagons” and come to the rescue of those thus attacked. This group most vociferously demands retaliatory steps from the Kremlin. They are a vocal minority.

Group Five: “Филькина Грамота” (Botched document produced by clueless idiots [very approximate translation!])

This is the group which basically says that it is all much more simple and no complex explanations are needed: the Trump Administration and Congress is composed of clueless idiots who have no idea what the hell they are doing and who like to produce some policy decisions just to look like they still matter in the world when they really don’t. Putin himself seems to be in this last group as he officially called this latest US document “complete stupidity“.

Frankly, in my experience the decision making process in the US is almost never the result of the efforts of single actor. In fact, US political decisions are the “vector sum” of the effect of many different forces acting together to produce a result that sometimes looks nonsensical but which is still the logical consequence from the joint effect of all the groups that determined it. In other words, all the explanations above could be right, albeit to various degrees. This being said, I strongly favor the last one as, like Putin, I have come to the conclusion that the Empire is run by stupid, ignorant ideologues who live in a world totally detached from reality.

What is absolutely certain is that this latest move by the US is, again, a dream come true for Putin and his supporters, especially right before the elections.

First and foremost, this is clearly an attack on “our guy” and even on “all of us” and this triggers a very strong reaction of support from the people. Furthermore, it separates all Russians into basically two camps: first, Putin supporters and, second, those who are so totally sold out to the US (like Ksenia Sobchak) that they would even hand back Crimea just in order to be friends with the West. The first group must roughly include, oh, let’s say 95%-98% of the population, the 2nd one about 2%-5%.

Second, it is now clear that every Russian oligarch (along with his family members and colleagues) has a big bullseye painted on his back and that he now should hurry to place his assets in the only location where the Empire cannot seize them: inside Russia.

Third, a lot of those oligarchs and civil servant who more or less actively opposed Putin and his policies now need to go back to him and, with hat in hand and a groveling tone, need to make amends and beg for his pardon and mercy. They placed their bets on the AngloZionists and they lost. Now they need to come back to papa and beg for clemency (they will probably get it too). This right before the elections is very helpful indeed even if nobody doubts the outcome of these election to begin with.

To sum it all up: the latest move is a true blessing for Putin and Russia in both economic and political terms and the only ones really hurt by all this are the Atlantic Integrationists (who are really going through some very bad times anyway).

The paradox: US sanctions – a blessing in disguise?

Let’s think about what the US has been doing over the past couple of years. Officially, the US has been trying to “isolate” Russia. But isolate from exactly what? From Peru? Or maybe from cultural exchanges with Morocco? Hardly. When the US says that it wants to isolate Russia it means cutting Russia off the western markets (trade), the western financial system (credit) and the western political elites (fora). These sanctions were supposed to hurt Russia precisely because Russia was, at least in part, dependent on trade with the EU, credits from western financial institution and her participation in G8 (now G7) type of events. Putin predicted that it would take 2 years for Russia to recover from these sanctions (and the concomitant drop in energy prices) and he was right: Russia not only created new trade ties, but also finally began investing in her internal market, she found credits elsewhere (China) and in terms of fora, it really turned out that the G7 without Russia was more or less like the Council of Europe or, for that matter, the UN Security Council: useless. Instead, world leaders began booking flight and visiting Moscow. Now the latest US sanctions are putting an immense amount of pressure on Russian oligarchs to bring their money back home. It sure looks to me that US sanctions made it possible for Putin to do something he might never have been able to do without them: to seriously begin reforming Russia (which badly needed such reforms). Remember, Eurasian Sovereignists are just that – sovereignists; whereas Atlantic Integrationists are just that – integrationists. By “cutting off Russia from the West” – whose agenda did the US really hurt, the integrationists or the sovereignists? Could it be that Putin owes his immense popularity, and Russia her success, at least in part to US sanctions?

The fundamental theory of deterrence hold that “deterrence is in the eye of the beholder”. In other words, I cannot assume that what would deter me would also deter you. In order to deter you I need to understand what your goals and values are. I submit that when the US elites decided to sanction Russia (putatively to deter her from further resisting the Empire) they made a fundamentally wrong assumption: that Russia was ruled by Atlantic Integrationist types who would be horrified and deterred. Instead, these sanctions ended being a blessing for the Eurasian Sovereignists who used these sanctions to paralyze the Atlantic Integrationists, to push through much needed reforms and basically eliminate the pro-Western opposition. In so many ways Russia is still a mess and a struggling country, but thanks to US sanctions none of that will have any impact at all on the next Presidential elections in Russia and the Eurasian Sovereignists are more powerful than ever before. Thank you, Uncle Shmuel!

Possible Russian reactions:

Whatever the reasons for all this nonsense, this does beg some kind of reaction from Russia and I think that judging by all the similar situations in the recent past, the Russian reaction is fairly easy to predict.

First, there will be no grandiose gesture or loud hyperbolic statements out of the Kremlin. Putin jokingly deplored that his own name was not on the list, Peskov said that this was a hostile act, a few Russian Duma members canceled planned trip to the US and Russian commentators expressed various degrees of dismay and disgust. But, all in all, this is very, very little. As usual, this will be completely misunderstood in the West where the culture is roughly “if your enemy slaps you in your face, you have to immediately slap him back lest you look weak“. In most of Asia (and the Middle-East, by the way), the norm is totally different: “if your enemy slaps you in the face you step back and plan how to bring him down in the long run because what matters is not the short-lived posturing, which can be even dangerous and counter-productive, but playing the long run and winning“. You could say that in the West the attention span and long-term planning is counted in days or weeks, while in Asia and the Middle-East it is counted in years and decades. So while there might not be anything particularly photogenic or quote-worthy coming out of the Kremlin, a few Russians did drop hints of what the Russian policy will be: “good luck to the Americans trying get anything major done on the planet without our support“. And just to make that point clear to those who can connect the dots, the Russian ambassador to the U.S., Anatoly Antonov, speaking on the Russian TV channel Rossiya One, declared that the Director of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR), Sergei Naryshkin, recently traveled to the US and met with some high level US personalities (including, according to US sources, CIA Director Mike Pompeo). As Newsweek wrote, Naryshkin would be “the Russian spy chief behind 2016 election hacking campaign” which various nutcases even called an act of war. He is on the very top of all these sanctions list, but there he is, traveling inside the US and meeting with top US officials. Why did Antonov leak this? Simply to show that for all the huffing and puffing and hyperbolic grandstanding from the US, the reality is that the US and Russia are still very much working together because they really cannot afford not doing so (as I write these words I got a link to a WaPo article now saying that Alexander Bortnikov, the head of the Federal Security Service (FSB) and even Colonel-General Korobov, the head of the Main Directorate of the General Stuff (GU GSh), the military intelligence service (ex-GRU) also took part in this trip to the US.)

So that is the real Russian message to the US: you need us a heck of a lot more than we need you because you need to work with us or else you won’t get anything done, we are still willing to work with you, but if you go crazy then your global interests will suffer much more than our ours; for all your hot air, you have been working with us all along and if you go overboard with the nonsense we will first reveal the extend of our collaboration and, if that is not enough to cool you down, we will terminate it.

There is no doubt in my mind that for most inhabitants of the AngloZionist Empire the notion of the almighty US needing the struggling (and economically comparatively small) Russia more than Russia needs the US is laughable. These folks would say something like that: “what is the Russian share of the gross world product, how many aircraft carriers does Russia have and what is the Russian weight in international financial institutions? And how is your vodka-soaked Ruble doing anyway, buddy?!” The Russians wouldn’t reply much of anything, most would just smile in contempt and think something along the lines of “when is the last time you got anything successfully done, you dumb pompous ass“. That’s fundamentally fine since this message is really not destined to ideological drones but to those in power in the US who are aware of the real scorecard of Uncle Sam and who realize that right now it is the Empire, not Russia, which is almost completely paralyzed, and isolated (oh irony!) on all levels.

Conclusion one: the Empire’s main export is hot air

ORDER IT NOW

Many of my friends and readers send me various articles with all sorts of quotes by US officials and I have a really hard time explaining to them that they should stop listening to this endless bombastic verbiage. Not only because the vast majority of officials making these statements are both stupid and ignorant, but because the main export of the AngloZionist Empire nowadays is hot air. We saw that recently with the grand statements about Kurdistan or, for that matter, the plans “A”, “B”, “C” and “D” about Syria: all delivered with the same final gravitas. This is counter-intuitive, I will admit that. After all, when the President of the nuclear superpower, a three star general or any other senior official takes the floor to make an official statement, we automatically tend to assume that what they say matters, especially if they are surrounded by flags and many exited reporters. But it really doesn’t. Especially not when the “other guy” (the Russians and the Chinese) come from a culture which frowns upon loudmouthed histrionics: “make my day, punk” is just not an (Eur-)Asian way of delivering threats.

I don’t mean to suggest that we should ignore the Empire, most definitely not, but we should look at what the Empire actually does and more or less ignore it’s constantly running narcissistic commentary. When the Empire promises to do something right, it usually lies. When it promises to do something wrong, these are usually empty threats. So what’s the point of paying so much attention to these promises?

Conclusion two: learning optimism and caution from history

If we look at world history we can always see the same phenomenon taking place: when things go well, the elites are united, but as soon as things go south, the elites turn on each other. The reason for this is quite simple: elites are never as united as they pretend to be. In reality Empires, and any big country, really, are run by a coalition of elites who all benefit from the established order. They can hate each other, sometimes even kill each other (SA vs SS, Trotskyists vs Stalinists, etc.), but they will work together just like crime families do in the mob. But when a real, profound, crisis becomes undeniably apparent, these ruling elites typically turn on each other and when that happens, nobody is really in charge until, eventually, the entire system comes tumbling down or a new main ruler/group emerges. Right now the AngloZionists elites are locked into a huge struggle which is likely to last for the foreseeable future. However, we need to be aware that such a situation can also be used be a previously less visible party to make a move and seize power. That is exactly how Putin came to power, pushed by the Russian security services even while Eltsin was still the nominal head of state. This also fully applies to the Ukraine which is also run by a group of people whose main current contribution to the world scene is hot air. But that could change very, very fast. This is why while I recommend more or less ignoring the hot air coming out of the top US (or Ukie) officials, I would keep an attentive eye on the level right below them, especially the US (or Ukie) military. Finally, we should never confuse the inability to get anything done with the inability to make things worse: the latter does not flow from the former. Nazi Germany was basically defeated in Stalingrad (Feb 1943) but that did not prevent it from murdering millions more people for another two and a half years before two Soviet soldiers placed the Soviet flag on top of the Reichstag. We are still far away from such a “Reichstag flag” moment, but we sure are witnessing the AngloZionist “Stalingrad” taking place before our eyes.

 
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  1. Giuseppe says:

    I am baffled by the Stalingrad metaphor. The 75th anniversary of the surrender of Feldmarschal Paulus was yesterday and tomorrow marks the surrender of the of the rest of the German 6th Army.

    I understand the empire is slowly bleeding out, and the hubris of American elites compares to that of Nazi Germany, but I am puzzled as to what event might compare to the utter disaster of Stalingrad? Trump’s election? Or if it is more of a process than an event, have the Russians politically and economically just turned a corner in their struggle against the empire, just as Stalingrad represented turning a corner? If yes, but how is that true? Or, did the analogy come readily to mind because of the observance of the 75th anniversary?

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  2. Giuseppe says:

    By the way great article, quintessential Saker. Much to ponder.

  3. Pretty good piece. As for this good observation, one quibble:

    You could say that in the West the attention span and long-term planning is counted in days or weeks, while in Asia and the Middle-East it is counted in years and decades.

    Most of Middle East counts history in centuries but in terms of planning they are not that good. In fact, they suck, honestly. The most observable horizon for the US in terms of planning (I mean real one, not some PR BS) is limited by 2 years–an election cycle to Congress and thus a power configuration around the national purse. This is also one of the main reasons that US foreign policy establishment, military and intelligence degenerated so badly over the last 40 years, once WW II gigantic profits have been spent. But a very good article.

    • Replies: @ANOSPH
  4. ANOSPH says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    This is also one of the main reasons that US foreign policy establishment, military and intelligence degenerated so badly over the last 40 years, once WW II gigantic profits have been spent.

    Excellent observation.

  5. peterAUS says:

    Does that make *any* sense to you *at all*?!

    It does.

    Well, if it does, stop reading and enjoy your unique gifts.

    I just did.

    I don’t think understading that is an unique gift. In fact, not understading it couid be seen in the same light.
    Anyone with a brain understands what’s happened here. The role of Moscow apologetics is to make that complicated and minimize its importance.

    The Empire is simply, and logically, putting pressure on pro-Moscow Russian elites.The conflict that started when Putin team got into power simply got into next phase.

    The only interesting thing is to watch will it, and how, affect the regime in Moscow, especially related to Syria, and even more importantly, in Ukraine.
    I have a gut feeling that Donbass is for some interesting times this summer.

  6. Beckow says:

    The sanctions list means that holding Western assets has become more risky for Russian oligarchs. And because of precedent for Chinese, Arab, etc…. They have three choices:
    1. remove Putin and co. and thus remove the risk
    2. protect their wealth by shifting out of Western assets
    3. defect to the West to protect assets in the West (and lose assets in Russia).

    They have some thinking to do. Very few will leave for the West, it is not clear how much of their wealth that would protect. But some will and they will get inordinate publicity.

    Option 1. seems very hard and unpredictable, and it would increase chaos. Chaos is not something the oligarchs want.

    The likely outcome is option 2. That strengthens Russia, and marginally hurts the West.

    When you are a global repository for safe assets and wealth – as US and West have been for 2-3 generations – the last thing you need is to put that safety haven status in doubt. Once people start doubting, things change. Saker is right, this policy is very stupid.

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  7. Cyrano says:

    Every aspect of human existence evolves around one basic (mis?)calculation: Am I better than someone else? Every second of every day individuals, organizations, political parties, companies, countries, religions (God knows why) are trying to prove the above – that they are better than the next in their respective category.

    There are only 4 possible outcomes here:

    1. You are better than someone and you can prove it. – ideal outcome

    2. You are better than someone, but you can’t prove it. – It sucks

    3. You are no better than someone, but you have the means to manipulate the outcome into appearing like you are better. – Probably the most unfair outcome.

    4. You are no better than someone and if you try to prove that you are, you prove the opposite.

    The current state of affairs between US and Russia is that US are aware that number 1 doesn’t apply, they believe that they can pull off a number 3, but I think that the most realistic assessment is number 4.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  8. @Cyrano

    they believe that they can pull off a number 3,

    Yet, for some reason it always ends in Number Two, if you know what I mean. ;-)

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Twodees Partain
  9. @peterAUS

    The underlying assumption of your comment is that applying pressure to Russia works in achieving the West’s goals. But everything we have seen from Russia in at least the last decade shows that pressuring Russia doesn’t work. Ergo your conclusions are wrong. Maybe it’s time you start learning something from history.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Anon
    , @Anon
  10. Cyrano says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Don’t despair, my friend. It might appear that way only from a Russian perspective. I believe that in theory at least – only 1 and 4 are permanent, number 2 and 3 should be more transient in nature.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  11. @Cyrano

    I don’t despair, but I was using Number Two in different way than you did. ;-)

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Chet Bradley
  12. Cyrano says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    OK, I got it. You are talking about delusions. Thanks for expanding my list. That should actually be number 5.

    • Replies: @bike-anarchist
  13. Norumbega says:

    “Now, at the same time, I want to be able — because I think it’s very important — to get along with Russia, to get along with China, to get along with Vietnam, to get along with lots of countries, because we have a lot of things we have to solve. And, frankly, Russia and China in particular can help us with the North Korea problem, which is one of our truly great problems.”

    [....]

    “And, you know, people don’t realize Russia has been very, very heavily sanctioned. They were sanctioned at a very high level, and that took place very recently. It’s now time to get back to healing a world that is shattered and broken. Those are very important things. And I feel that having Russia in a friendly posture, as opposed to always fighting with them, is an asset to the world and an asset to our country, not a liability.”

    [....]

    “President Obama wanted to get along with Russia, but the chemistry wasn’t there. Getting along with other nations is a good thing, not a bad thing — believe me. It’s a good thing, not a bad thing.”

    The above quotations are excerpted from President Trump’s response to a Fox news reporter during a joint press conference with President Quang of Vietnam on November 11, 2017. They suggest a continuing intention on Trump’s part to get along with Russia despite the very strong pressures to enforce the New Cold War policies, including from within his
    Administration. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-president-quang-vietnam-joint-press-conference-hanoi-vietnam/

    I point this out, because some may imagine that expressions of such an intention on the part of Trump ceased long ago, perhaps at the point Flynn was let go.

    A simple explanation for the list of Russian persons who might potentially be sanctioned, is that Congress, as part of the law it passed six months ago, _required_ the production of such a list. So the Administration, through Treasury, produced such a list in answer to that requirement (crudely, as Saker points out) – but chose to not actually adopt any new sanctions, finding that they are not needed. And it appears that Trump is under new attack in the mainstream precisely for his minimalist compliance with the mandate from Congress.

    • Replies: @Art
  14. KenH says:

    If Putin and the Russians are still baffled by American hostility, or rather (((American))) hostility, then it’s time to question the collective IQ and wisdom of the Russian people. Putin is standing in the way of greater Israel and a Jewish world empire that is furthered by American military might. Despite his faults he is a strong nationalist leader who’s preventing Jewish globalists from turning Russia into a global plantation like America and their economy into a revenue stream for Jewish robber barons like they have the American economy.

    I’m baffled that a people who have had so much experience with Jews and their machinations can’t recognize that America is now what they used to be when they were under Jewish management from 1917 until Jews began losing control in the 50′s and 60′s. Now the red diaper babies and their progeny loom large over America.

  15. KA says:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/syrian-rebels-reportedly-shoot-down-russian-su-25-pilot-unkown-2018-2 reports -Syrian rebels shot down a Russian Su-25 in Idlib province on Saturday,

    Jaish al-Nasr, a faction in the Free Syrian Army shot it down, ..
    Su-25 was shot down by a man-portable air-defense system” Is US trying to do an Afghanistan on Russia after successfully kicking the Vietnam Syndrome off it’s “not talk list” but leaving it on the ” do repeat lists ” in ME theater ? Not a good sign .

    • Replies: @annamaria
  16. “I have come to the conclusion that the Empire is run by stupid, ignorant ideologues who live in a world totally detached from reality.”

    Yeah, but the list is the product of a government dominated and staffed largely by hack lawyers.

  17. renfro says:

    Interesting…..but I can see no reason for always claiming that the money laundering is done by the ‘Russia State’ instead of private individual actors….the only motivation I can see for the State doing it is to turn rubles into western dollars and English pounds….but since the dollar dominates in trade, for now anyway. the English pound isn’t such a lure for Russia’s holdings of foreign currencies.

    UK promises to crack down on assets of corrupt oligarchs – The Times

    LONDON (Reuters) – Britain will use new powers to seize the assets of foreign criminals and corrupt politicians, The Times newspaper reported on Saturday quoting the security minister.

    Investors from Russia, China and the Middle East have poured billions into London, buying everything from luxury properties to entire companies, but the provenance of some of those funds has been questioned by transparency campaigners.

    It is unclear how much money is laundered through Britain, but the National Crime Agency has said calculations of between 36 billion pounds ($50.83 billion) and 90 billion pounds ($127.08 billion) are “a significant underestimate”.

    Security minister Ben Wallace told The Times that the government would use powers regarding unexplained wealth to freeze and recover property if individuals cannot explain how they acquired assets over 50,000 pounds ($70,000).

    What we know from the Laundromat exposé is that certainly there have been links to the [Russian] state,” he was quoted as saying. “The government’s view is that we know what they are up to and we are not going to let it happen any more.”

  18. Nothing to worry about. It is only Rothschild farting again because he cannot get his hands on Russian natural resources.

    Russia should only continue building those nuclear torpedoes. and blow out that candle called US.

  19. renfro says:
    @KenH

    I’m baffled that a people who have had so much experience with Jews and their machinations can’t recognize that America is now what they used to be when they were under Jewish management from 1917 …

    I am fairly sure that those in Russia who need to know already know plenty about Jew/Isr led USA Russian policy…..they’ve been after Russia for a long time.

    1977-1981: Nationalities Working Group Advocates Using Militant Islam Against Soviet Union

    In 1977 Zbigniew Brzezinski, as President Carter’s National Security Adviser, forms the Nationalities Working Group (NWG) dedicated to the idea of weakening the Soviet Union by inflaming its ethnic tensions. The Islamic populations are regarded as prime targets. Zionist Richard Pipes, the father of Daniel Pipes, takes over the leadership of the NWG in 1981. Pipes predicts that with the right encouragement Soviet Muslims will “explode into genocidal fury” against Moscow. According to Richard Cottam, a former CIA official who advised the Carter administration at the time, after the fall of the Shah of Iran in 1978, Brzezinski favored a “de facto alliance with the forces of Islamic resurgence, and with the Republic of Iran.” [Dreyfuss, 2005, pp. 241, 251 - 256]

    November 1978-February 1979: Some US Officials Want to Support Radical Muslims to Contain Soviet Union

    State Department official Henry Precht will later recall that Brzezinski had the idea “that Islamic forces could be used against the Soviet Union. The theory was, there was an arc of crisis, and so an arc of Islam could be mobilized to contain the Soviets.” [Scott, 2007, pp. 67] In November 1978, President Carter appointed George Ball head of a special White House Iran task force under Brzezinski. Ball recommends the US should drop support for the Shah of Iran and support the radical Islamist opposition of Ayatollah Khomeini.
    This idea is based on ideas from the British Jewish Islamic expert Dr. Bernard Lewis, who advocates the balkanization of the entire Muslim Near East along tribal and religious lines. The chaos would spread in what he also calls an “arc of crisis” and ultimately destabilize the Muslim regions of the Soviet Union.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  20. Seraphim says:
    @KenH

    @standing in the way of greater Israel and a Jewish world empire

    It is the only motivator of what is called American ‘foreign policy’. Their ‘Bible’ tells them that Gog Magog (i.e. Russians and Iran) must suffer a massive defeat in Syria (Armageddon) as the preliminary condition for ushering the Coming of the Messiah and the instauration of the Kingdom of God on Earth with the capital Zion.
    Did you know that, more than hundred years ago (the date is uncertain), a certain Rabbi from Jamaica declared:

    “There is but little ground for debate; but that the prophecy of Ezekiel, relating to Israel’s last enemy, points conclusively to Russia. Unless a radical change–from which may God preserve us–takes place in the mind and in the political constitutions of Europe, we need not fear that any other nation than Russia will oppress the Hebrews”….
    Russian is the single empire which has the disposition, and can command the means of undertaking a like campaign; and it is worthy of remark, that a prophecy is in vogue in Russia, its origin I know not, predicting that at a certain future period the Russians will become Lords of the Universe. True or false, this prophecy has a tendency to fortify them with courage, and of itself already bears witness into what extremities they are inclined to plunge in this gigantic struggle…
    “Under still another aspect, the prophecy may be applied to Russia. It is, moreover, foretold, that of a sudden such revolts will burst forth from the numberless army of Gog that, using the expression of the Prophet, every man’s hand will be raised against his brother. This portion of the prophecy is eminently applicable to Russia; for it is almost certain that Russia, engaged in a universal war, on the first reverse, will witness Poland and the portions she holds under the yoke, turning their arrows against her…
    “It is thus almost established by evidence, that Russia is the country of Magog, and that NICHOLAS, or one of his successors, is the Gog announced by the prophet, and that there is reason to believe that the latter days are not far off “?

    The most read American Bible is the Scofield Reference Bible, published just a few years before WW1. The 1917 edition also attempted to date events of the Bible. Millions of Americans have been brainwashed by its ‘study’. What do you read at the notes to Ezekiel:
    “That the primary reference is to the northern (European) powers, headed up by Russia, all agree. The whole passage should be read in connection with Zechariah 12:1-4 ; 14:1-9 ; Matthew 24:14-30 ; Revelation 14:14-20 ; 19:17-21, “gog” is the prince, “Magog,” his land. The reference to Meshech and Tubal (Moscow and Tobolsk) is a clear mark of identification. Russia and the northern powers have been the latest persecutors of dispersed Israel, and it is congruous both with divine justice and with the covenants (e.g. (See Scofield “Genesis 15:18″) See Scofield ” Deuteronomy 30:3 ” that destruction should fall at the climax of the last mad attempt to exterminate the remnant of Israel in Jerusalem. The whole prophecy belongs to the yet future “day of Jehovah” ; Isaiah 2:10-22 ; Revelation 19:11-21 and to the battle of Armageddon Revelation 16:14 See Scofield ” Revelation 19:19 ” but includes also the final revolt of the nations at the close of the kingdom-age. Revelation 20:7-9″ .

    I wonder why people can’t see that Ukraine/Crimea is another project to ‘stop’ Gog? That is meant to be a satrapy of Greater Israel?

    • Replies: @Jake
  21. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve always appreciated your candid exposure of American hypocrisy and stupidity, Saker, especially as unfairly and dangerously directed at Russia. But explain to me why most Russian opinion columnists, such as yourself, have to make their pieces as long as a novel by Tolstoy or Dostoevsky? Something to do with the R1a haplotype perhaps? Many long introns amidst the essential exons perhaps? Or, just an inability to stop when having a good time?

  22. Russia should only continue building those nuclear torpedoes. and blow out that candle called US.

    You are unhinged.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    , @yurivku
  23. ” Nazi Germany was basically defeated in Stalingrad (Feb 1943) but that did not prevent it from murdering millions more people for another two and a half years before two Soviet soldiers placed the Soviet flag on top of the Reichstag. ”

    Hot air, as far as I know, this murder on millions.
    What was very hot air, fire storms, was the allied genocide on German citizens, such as those of Hamburg.
    Two million German citizens died, the bombing accomplished nothing, citizens who did not contribute to the war effort, but who had to be fed, disappeared, thus strenghtening the German war effort.

    What might be causing more than hot air is the USA small atomic bombs, that the Pentagon wants, against Russia.
    Russian retaliation also will cause more than hot air in the USA.

    • Replies: @Avery
  24. @Chet Bradley

    Which west goals ?
    I do not want USA world supremacy.
    At present Putin is the only man preventing this.

    • Replies: @Chet Bradley
  25. renfro says:

    The US congress is such a freaking circus of idiots, clowns, whores for Israel, crooks, perverts and incompetents I don’t think I can stomach keeping up with their malfeasance much longer.

    But I will leave this snippet—-the ‘list’ and idea to sanction Russian individuals was the work of former Russian hating State Dept Amb to Poland, uber Jew Daniel Fried …working in conjunction with uber Jew Sen Ben Cardin of the Foreign Relations Committee.

    That tells you all you need to know. ((They)) were delighted to seize on Hillary’s Russian excuse for losing the election and may have even instigated it to Hillary.

    It will be interesting to see if the oligarchs faced with the choice of Russia or Europe or US as a home for their billions ever meet with little boy Kushner who might guarantee them safe bank accounts in Israel …for a fee of course…lol.

  26. Avery says:
    @jilles dykstra

    {Two million German citizens died,}

    Crocodile tears.

    ~15 million Soviet citizens were killed or murdered by Nazi invaders.
    Plus ~3 million Red Army POWs deliberately starved to death, or died to due deliberate neglect, withholding medical aid, etc by Nazi invaders.

    A total of ~10 million Red Army troops lost their lives to prevent the extermination of Slavic peoples by Nazi invaders.

    • Agree: RobinG
  27. The whole hate the Russians deal is a Zionist ploy as the Russians are defeating ISIS aka AL CIADA in Syria and since ISIS and all of its branches are a creation of the U.S. and ISRAEL and BRITAIN via the CIA and the MOSSAD and MI6 , the Zionists cannot accept defeat and are turning the U.S. against Russia .

    If anyone doubts that Israel and the zionist neocons control the U.S. gov, just remember that ISRAEL and the deepstate did 911 and got away with it, that is control in spades.

  28. headrick says:

    The last week or so the left has been bombastically upset at Trump because he did not
    enact more sanctions against Russia, and were pleased at the action against the Russian
    Oligarchs though. – These people are always convinced that the government has the power to do things by fiat- take away guns, punish global warming skeptics, sanction politically incorrect speech – lets pass a law-. The right is not immune from this instinct either with drug wars .etc. This belief
    that the direct application of force 180 degrees against the foe, never a thought to strategy or cause and effect or blowback or complex analysis, – brute force and ignorance- into the valley of death rode the 600. Those drunk with power grasp the reins and charge madly. The drunk are not great thinkers. Putin raises a glass to their return.

  29. As always, simplistic pro-Putin propaganda buried in a mass of details so as to bog people down. The centrepiece is at the end: sanctions. The basic argument is always “lift the sanctions” then some pretext or other is trotted out to justify that pre-ordained conclusion. In today’s serving, the sanctions are useless and the US should just surrender and “work with” Putin. What is interesting though is that the author claims to see opposition to Putin within the elite but (needlwss to say!) “the people” are solidly behind Putin. Reading between the lines, that suggests that sanctions are starting to bite.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @FB
    , @bluedog
    , @annamaria
  30. Your total adds up to 28 million.
    The number usually used of USSR deaths is 20 millions.
    As to German invaders, Hitler’s attack was just three weeks before Stalin’s planned attack.
    The Red Army deaths, if anything was cheap and abundant in the USSR is was human life.
    The murdering of USSR citizens, any reason or source ?
    Forgot about Stalin’s scorched earth tactics when reatreating ?
    Planned extermination of Slavic peoples, any source ?
    USSR POW’s, at the beginning of the war, because German troops surprised the Red Army, still in confusion before the planned attack, bad planning on the USSR side, there were so many that indeed it was difficult to take care of them.

    Bogdan Musial, ‘Kampfplatz Deutschland, Stalins Kriegspläne gegen den Westen’, Berlin 2008
    Musial is a Polish historian working at a polish-jewish institute in Warsaw.
    His book is based on research in Russian archives.
    Translated title:
    Battlefield Germany, Stalins’s war plans against the west.

    V.L. Kondratjev, ‘De schande van Rzjev’, 1997 Amsterdam (Iskupit krovju, Znamka, december 1991)
    The word schande means ‘disgrace’.
    The book describes how Red Army officers sent their men into death.

  31. @Chet Bradley

    Not really my Child. Not like ballistic missiles, considering nuclear torpedoes,they have no limitations in size, That means that there is no limitation of pay load. If they are released they cannot be detected by satellites.
    US is geo strategically extremely vulnerable because US has open both sides.
    If Russia will place a few torpedoes at Kamchatka and send them to coast California, because of weather patterns
    it will contaminate all US with radioactive dust.

    Naturally I was joking in my comment. But Russia will have a deterrent that US will not be able to counter. And US will have no choice than to behave accordingly.

    • Replies: @bike-anarchist
  32. RobinG says:
    @renfro

    “…..weakening the Soviet Union by inflaming its ethnic tensions.”
    Same strategy is operating in US now. Some allege Soros is promoting this, but he’s not the only one. [#Resist was/is underwritten by MeetUp! CEO.]

    Can you give citations for your quotes about Nationalities Working Group? Thanks.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @renfro
  33. It is getting rather tiresome, the “The Russians did it” meme. Whatever happens that contradicts US perceptions of reality , “The Russians did it”. Maybe the American public is gullible, but us Europeans are rather more reserved on this. It has has been dis proven that Russia meddled in the French and German elections, and while the Brexit vote is inconclusive , we still have not been exposed to the smoking gun.
    There is no doubt that the US MSM is trying to steam roll all objections to this stance, but proof, where is it? The bought ads on Fakebook is laughable at best, and the new Dutch source is another “Flat earther theory”. Has general American IQ deteriorated so much in the span of a decade ? I doubt it.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @EugeneGur
  34. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:

    Anon from TN
    The author did not need so many words to state the obvious: the US shot itself in the foot again, and now it’s going to start complaining that it hurts. Anyone familiar with human history knows that dying empires invariably make maladaptive moves that speed up their demise. This was the scenario with Roman, Spanish, Ottoman, British, and French Empires. Look on the bright side, though: the US Empire follows in the footsteps of the greatest.

  35. FB says:
    @Michael Kenny

    ‘…that suggests that sanctions are starting to bite…’

    What disneyland character are you portraying…?

    I’m guessing Dopey…from the Seven Dwarfs…

    US has zero ability to influence the trajectory of Russia…which is straight up…like the Russian rocket launches that take Nasa astronauts into space for the last seven years…

    US sanctions have only been a blessing to Russia…

    For one thing…they have driven a wedge between EU and the US…especially Germany which is a natural Russian ally…

    For another…they are helping Putin to clean up the remaining rotten apples in the Russian billionaire class…by forcing them to bring their offshore money home…or get the hell out of Russia and have whatever they leave behind confiscated by the Russian people…

    I have noticed you here as a monkey with a serious Russia chip on his shoulder…

    I’ll be checking back to see what you are spouting as soon the US Ponzi scheme economy starts collapsing…

    The only thing holding up this house of cards is the petrodollar…which is already in the frying pan…

    Russia and China…along with other emerging powers like Iran and the Brics…are working round the clock to dismantle the present US-based world financial order…

    The Brics already exceed the G7 in total GDP…

    Enjoy your coming poverty…

    • Replies: @Anon
  36. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Den Lille Abe

    Anon from TN
    The Europeans will never appreciate to what extent the thinking and behavior of Americans is determined by the view that “this is not my problem”. They would also never understand or believe how parochial and uninformed the people in the US are. Then again, the Europeans have nothing to be proud of: while the US elites are at least open about their ulterior motives, the Europeans fell into a trap of anti-Russian sanctions (which hurt them a lot more than the US, BTW) by virtue of pure hypocrisy.

    • Replies: @Anon
  37. bluedog says:
    @Michael Kenny

    Sorry I don’t have the tea leaves to read between the lines,but I was reading that a number of business leaders from the EU was just in the Crimea, and I rather doubt they were there for a vacation,sanctions are a double edged sword and it would seem the EU are feeling them as much if not more than Russia ….

  38. FB says:
    @jilles dykstra

    You are obviously insane…

    Trying to argue known historical facts about WW2 and Soviet losses…and throwing in garbage like ‘lives were cheap…’

    The figure of 20 million total Soviet deaths was used during the USSR era…but more recent studies have put the figure at 26.6 million…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union

    The Nazi treatment of Soviet POWs stands as the most barbaric and inhuman in history…

    A total of 3.3 to 3.5 million Soviet POWs died in captivity…57 percent of all POWs…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_mistreatment_of_Soviet_prisoners_of_war

    The Nazi ideology considered Russians and Slavs in general to be inferior and ‘Untermeschen’…

    But when the dust settled it was the ‘superior’ Germans who were conquered and the Russians raising the Hammer and Sickle atop the Reichstag…

    Even the whole German nonsense about ‘Aryans’ was completely made up stupidity…

    The word Aryan…

    ‘…”Aryan” (/ˈɛəriən, ˈær-/)[1] is a term meaning “noble”, which was used as a self-designation by Indo-Iranian people.

    The word was used by the Indic people of the Vedic period in India as an ethnic label for themselves and to refer to the noble class as well as the geographic region known as Āryāvarta, where Indo-Aryan culture was based.

    The closely related Iranian people also used the term as an ethnic label for themselves in the Avesta scriptures, and the word forms the etymological source of the country name Iran…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

    The sheer stupidity of Hitler fanboys like yourself never ceases to amaze…

    You don’t even realize that the terminology and symbols [swastika] were borrowed from races you now consider subhuman…

    What a joke…

  39. @Avery

    This is just your typical horseshit.

    • Replies: @Avery
  40. @jilles dykstra

    Great comment. Soviet casualties dwarf those of the West, and there’s no denying the bravery and sacrifice of Sovier soldiers and subjects, but some of the numbers commonly thrown around are as fictitious as claims about the number of Jewish deaths.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  41. @jilles dykstra

    Thank you, jd, for your appropriately mythoclastic comments.

    It always annoys me when people continue, after nearly a century, to parrot wartime propaganda as if they’re really onto revealing some great secrets or profound insights.

    Notice that claims were made without any reference to sources. It would no doubt be a hoot if he tried to supply credible ones.

  42. @FB

    What a joke…

    You wanna know what’s a joke? It’s when some ignorant mouthy fool initiates personal attacks on other commenters, then proceeds to make its case using Wikipedia as a credible source.

    Wikipedia? Really?

    Bwahahahahaaa!

    • Replies: @FB
  43. EugeneGur says:
    @Den Lille Abe

    Maybe the American public is gullible, but us Europeans are rather more reserved on this.

    Oh really? You Europeans just like to hide behind the US’s back and pretend you are so-o-o European, so advanced and civilized, unlike the American barbarians, while behaving exactly the same – or worse.

    As far as the “Russian interference” in the everyone’s elections and everything under the sun is concerned, the German or British press, if anything, is worse than the US one. The Spanish press promptly accused Russia of engineering the Catalan independence movement. My sister told me that when she read a translation from Spanish about this in the Russian press she thought the Russians made it up, for it sounded so silly. But I read the original in El Pais and knew the Russian didn’t make it up – the European media these days is such you truly can’t make it up, try as you might. In fact, there’s never been anything resembling proof in any of the stories, and all of them are completely nonsensical, which did not prevent the European media from spreading them far and wide.

    So, it I were you, I’d first question the collective European IQ, before laughing at the Americans. The European policy towards Russia for the past 25 years has been unnecessarily confrontational and generally extremely stupid. After all, the US is far away, but Europe is right next door to Russia. If push comes to shove, you’d be the first to get a kick in your tender behind. It happened before, remember? Not only your IQ seems to have deteriorated, even assuming it was ever high, but your memory as well.

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @Jake
  44. renfro says:
    @RobinG

    Its from ..historycommons

    http://www.historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=Iran&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go

    good resource…it is collection of news reports, documents, books, time lines of events, etc
    just plug Iran or Israel or whatever subject into search
    that particular report is from Devil’s Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam (American Empire Project) by Robert Dreyfuss

  45. FB says:
    @jacques sheete

    Ahh yes…our resident ruminant Jack Sheep jumps into the fray…hooves first…

    Those wikipedia numbers are backed up with citations from three books from the Russian Academy of Sciences…all told there are 183 citations…

    I agree that wikipedia is heavily politicized…but on this score you have no hoof to stand on Jack Sheep…

    As for the Aryan wiki article…it has 89 citations…and this mostly anthropological academic work…

    I do agree that the US and British terror bombing of German cities caused massive civilian casualties…and is a massive war crime…

    But that does not diminish the scale of Russian and Slavic suffering at the hands of Germans in WW2…

  46. Jake says:

    “I call this (informal) opposition the “Atlantic Integrationists” because what these pro-western globalists want is for the AngloZionist Empire to accept Russia as an equal partner and to have Russia fully integrate itself into the US-controlled international financial and security structures:”

    Absolutely.

    What the Saker calls the Anglo-Zionist Empire is what I call the self-righteous imperialism of WASP culture. And it is relentless. It is like Mordor and Sauron. It intends to secure and then use the One Ring to Rule Them All, and no body count matters.

  47. Jake says:
    @EugeneGur

    “Oh really? You Europeans just like to hide behind the US’s back and pretend you are so-o-o European, so advanced and civilized, unlike the American barbarians, while behaving exactly the same – or worse.”

    That is funny because true.

  48. renfro says:
    @RobinG

    Bottom line, destroy Russia has always been the Jews, (aided by some bought politicians and assorted psychopaths) and still is.
    You need to track them thru the decades to see how the US came to its Russia fear mongering.

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=western_support_for_islamic_militancy_202708

    Context of ’1977-1981: Nationalities Working Group Advocates Using Militant Islam Against Soviet Union’

    [MORE]

    Albert Wohlstetter, a professor at the University of Chicago, gathers a cadre of fiery young intellectuals around him, many of whom are working and associating with the magazine publisher Irving Kristol (see 1965). Wohlstetter’s group includes Richard Perle, Zalmay Khalilzad, and Paul Wolfowitz. Wohlstetter, himself a protege of the Machiavellian academic Leo Strauss, is often considered the “intellectual godfather” of modern neoconservatism. Formerly an analyst at the RAND Corporation, Wohlstetter wielded a powerful influence on the US’s foreign policy during the heyday of the Cold War.

    The recently formed neoconservatives, bound together by magazine publisher Irving Kristol (see 1965), react with horror to the ascendancy of the “McGovern liberals” in the Democratic Party, and turn to conservative senator Henry “Scoop” Jackson (D-WA) for leadership. Jackson calls himself a “muscular Democrat”; others call him “the Senator from Boeing” for his strong support of the US defense industry.Jackson assembles a staff of bright, young, ideologically homogeneous staffers who will later become some of the most influential and powerful neoconservatives of their generation, including Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Elliott Abrams, Abram Shulsky, and Paul Wolfowitz. Jackson’s office—
    Jackson’s neoconservative disciples came of age either fighting two foreign dictators—Stalin and/or Hitler—or growing up with family members who fought against them. [Unger, 2007, pp. 35-41] Wolfowitz’s father’s family perished in the Holocaust; he will later say that what happened to European Jews during World War II “shaped a lot of my views.” [New York Times, 4/22/2002] Feith will tell the New Yorker in 2005, “[My] family got wiped out by Hitler, and… all this stuff about working things out—well, talking to Hitler to resolve the problem didn’t make any sense.” Most neoconservatives like Feith and Wolfowitz tend to look to military solutions as a first, not a last, resort. To them, compromise means appeasement, just as Britain’s Neville Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler. Stefan Halper, a White House and State Department official in the Nixon, Ford, and Reagan administrations, will say of the neoconservatives, “It is use force first and diplomacy down the line.”
    Former Trotskyites – On the other hand, many neoconservatives come to the movement from the hardline, socialist left, often from organizations that supported Bolshevik revolutionary Leon Trotsky (see Late 1930s – 1950s). Trotskyites accused Stalin of betraying the purity of the Communist vision as declaimed by Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin. “I can see psychologically why it would not be difficult for them to become [conservative] hard-liners,” says Harvard Sovietologist Richard Pipes, himself a hardliner whose son, Daniel Pipes, will become an influential neoconservative. “It was in reaction to the betrayal.” Many neoconservatives like Stephen Schwartz, a writer for the Weekly Standard, still consider themselves to be loyal disciples of Trotsky. Richard Perle is a Trotskyite socialist when he joins Jackson’s staff, and will always practice what author Craig Unger calls “an insistent, uncompromising, hard-line Bolshevik style” of policy and politics. Like Trotsky, Unger writes, the neoconservatives pride themselves on being skilled bureaucratic infighters, and on trusting no one except a small cadre of like-minded believers. Disagreement is betrayal, and political struggles are always a matter of life and death. [Unger, 2007, pp. 35-41]
    After George H. W. Bush becomes the head of the CIA (see November 4, 1975 and After), he decides to break with previous decisions and allow a coterie of neoconservative outsiders to pursue the allegations of Albert Wohlstetter that the CIA is seriously underestimating the threat the USSR poses to the US (see 1965),
    The neocon team of “analysts” becomes known as “Team B,” with “Team A” being the CIA’s own analytical team. It is unprecedented to allow outsiders to have so much access to highly classified CIA intelligence as Bush is granting the Team B neocons, so the entire project is conducted in secret.
    Former CIA deputy director Ray Cline says Team B had subverted the National Intelligence Estimate on the USSR by employing “a kangaroo court of outside critics all picked from one point of view.” Secretary of State Henry Kissinger says that B’s only purpose is to subvert detente and sabotage a new arms limitation treaty between the US and the Soviet Union. [Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, 4/1993; Common Dreams (.org), 12/7/2004; BBC, 1/14/2005; Quarterly Journal of Speech, 5/2006 ; Unger, 2007, pp. 53-57]
    Although the entire “Team B” intelligence analysis experiment (see Early 1976, November 1976, and November 1976) is supposed to be classified and secret, the team’s neoconservatives launch what author Craig Unger will call “a massive campaign to inflame fears of the red menace in both the general population and throughout the [foreign] policy community—thanks to strategically placed leaks to the Boston Globe and later to the New York Times.” Times reporter David Binder later says that Team B leader Richard Pipes is “jubilant” over “pok[ing] holes at the [CIA]‘s analysis” of the Soviet threat. Team B member John Vogt calls the exercise “an opportunity to even up some scores with the CIA.” [Unger, 2007, pp. 57]

    In 1993, after reviewing the original Team B documents, Cahn will reflect on the effect of the B exercise: “For more than a third of a century, assertions of Soviet superiority created calls for the United States to ‘rearm.’ In the 1980s, the call was heeded so thoroughly that the United States embarked on a trillion-dollar defense buildup. As a result, the country neglected its schools, cities, roads and bridges, and health care system. From the world’s greatest creditor nation, the United States became the world’s greatest debtor—in order to pay for arms to counter the threat of a nation that was collapsing.” [Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, 4/1993

    • Replies: @annamaria
  49. @Jake

    WASPs (or any other kind of nominal white Christians) have very little to do with it at this stage, even if at some point they set the whole mess in motion.

    • Agree: Alden
  50. Jake says:
    @Seraphim

    When you grasp the mind and soul formed by Rabbinic Judaism, you will know that many Zionists have already prepared in case the state of Israel must be evacuated. Most Israelis and Zionists worldwide would demand to be given part of Russia.

    Not NYC. Not Hollywood. Not Berlin. Not Warsaw. Not London. Part of Russia.

    • Replies: @bike-anarchist
    , @Seraphim
  51. polistra says:

    Sanctions are almost always counterproductive. We should have learned this from Cuba, but we didn’t. When US breaks connections with a country, we force the country to develop its own skills and products, or to do business with our enemies. Result: the sanctioned country gets stronger, our enemies get richer, and US loses business. Total loss for US, total gain for everyone else.

    Justice.

  52. @Jake

    There already is the “Jewish Autonomous Oblast”, known as Birobidzhan, in Eastern Siberia. It is much larger than the land mass of any configuration of the State of Israel, tons of fresh water, natural resources. And get this: they wouldn’t have to behave like Nazis to benefit from a land ready for them.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @polskijoe
  53. Cyrano says:
    @Avery

    There is a monument on Mamayev Kurgan, called The motherland calls. Luckily, when the motherland called millions of Russians answered.

    The Russians not only like to answer the call of duty, but also the call of booty – as the Germans found out around 1945.

    It’s not like the Europeans haven’t gone on a genocidal rampages before – Spanish and Anglo-Saxon massacres of native Americans comes to mind. The real genius of those monkeys – the Germans – is that they attempted to treat the Russians like they were American Indians. If anything, the Russians were too kind to those beasts.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  54. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Can Israel be trusted with nukes? They, like the U$A have exemptions from IAEA inspections. They have equal exclusiveness in their military doctrine. I recall an anon poster a couple weeks ago stating that Israel has positioned nukes in strategic locations, including continental U$A and Europe, influencing Israel-favourable decisions, explaining why Western countries make decisions that are NOT in their best interests.

    I don’t wish to believe in that scenario…

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  55. Well, Russia must not be baffled. After having so much baffling experience with partners being baffled is not a good thing especially after 2 consequitive Soviet and then Russia leaders basically gave to USA everything they wanted on a plate with blue stripe so to speak only to get baffled yet again by partners not giving an inch. This is zero sum game and relaxed attitude is not part of it. Every single opportunity must be used to undermine remaining pillars of USA might namely her currency status and international financial system which is built by as Sacker said uncle Shmuel for uncle Shmuel benefits. USA military is just an outgrowth which will collapse like sand cattle without massive cash infusions allowed only because those two pillars mentioned above still standing. Hoping that there will be some reasonable people in Washington with whom some detente is possible is dangerous illusion. There not going to be lasting detente between USA and Russia until USA is reduced to her natural state of regional northern American power with zero influence everywhere beyond Mexican and Canadian borders. Now I always wonder where indeed Putin is taking Russia. I am watching Russia tv and see sort of very ugly place which sole existence is to dumb down Russian people and destroy people morals and ethics. I wonder what kind of population and new generation of russians can grow watching this? I know there are still many people born and brought up in ussr to be immune to this garbage but what about young people? Where indeed Putin is taking Russia and does he need dumbed down American way population for this. Not to be forgotten is that people’s strength is country strength. What is going on is quite simple. America is plainly hot bed of capitalism and capitalism is quite obviously in death throws. Exponential growth of debt around the world and continuous reduction of life standards and overall moral decay around the world is a proof of this and obviously Russia and other former socialist states did a very bad bet on capitalism. Results of the past 25 years are extremely disappointing and downright catastrophic for long term survival of the very people who adopted this dead end system which passed its prime long time ago and dying. Communism is not popular at the moment but I have no doubt it will come back because nothing in the past 25 years convinced me that capitalism is better.

  56. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Cyrano

    Anon from TN
    Let me add a little vignette. In Stalingrad (now Volgograd), there are preserved ruins of one of only two buildings that remained semi-standing: Pavlov’s house. Not only it was defended for 60 days against Wehrmacht (longer than France), Germans lost more solders there than they lost conquering France. That should explain to Europeans why Russians don’t take Europe too seriously: they say that every 100 years or so the whole of Europe unites, makes war on Russia, gets beaten to pulp, and then licks its wounds for another century. There was Napoleon in the nineteenth century, there was Hitler in the twentieth century, there is NATO in the twenty first…

    • Agree: FB, yurivku
  57. @FB

    You obviously do not know that wikipedia is far from objective.
    The Russian book I mentioned is about cheap lives.
    Stalin murdered, though hunger, a few million Ukrainian farmers, lives were cheap.
    In the early thirties Stalin killed some 80% of his army officers, when war began he was desperate for competent officers.
    Katyn, he murdered some 30.000 Polish officrs.

    Your assertion about German treatment of USSR POW’s, any source ?
    And how about the Red Army soldiers not taking any prisoners ?
    Read
    Alfred M. de Zayas, ´Die Wehrmacht-Untersuchungsstelle, Dokumentation allierter Kriegsverbrechen im Zweiten Weltkrieg’ , 1979, 2001, München
    about Russian atrocities on German soldiers.

    That the German party saw groups of people as inferior is correct.
    In books written by German soldiers fighting in the east I never saw this opionion.
    There one often reads about Hiwi’s, Hilfs Willige, Hilfe is ‘help’, Willige is ‘willing’, also Russians helping the German army.

    I still see the German people as the most capable of the world.
    German cars still are quality cars, technologically advanced.
    How Germany could have won the war against USA mass production, and Russian masses, please explain.
    Richard Overy, ‘Why the allies won’, New York, London, 1995

    The meaning of word Aryan is still debated
    B.G. Sidharth, ‘The celestial key to the Vedas, Discovering the origins of the world’s oldest civilisation’, Rochester, Vermont, 1999
    Malati J Shendge, ‘The civilised demons : the Harappans in Rgveda’, 1977 New Delhi

    That Hitler fantasized about this, I fully agree.

    Where did I state that I see anyone as subhuman ?
    Where did I state I’m a fan of Hitler ?
    Though I must admit that I have a certain respect for the man who, with help from Schacht, in three years time reduced German unemployment from six to one million, and gave Germans back their self respect, taken from them in Versailles.

    Hitlers mistake was to run into the Polish trap, set up by GB, Roosevelt and Poland.
    As Churchill later said ‘one can best see the whole 1914 1945 period as one long war’.
    A war Germany won, GB is is third rate country, the USA is falling apart, and Berlin is, to my displeasure, the real capital of the EU.
    I do hope you know that GB caused and wanted WWI, GB was unable to compete economically with the Germany unified in 1870 by the French attack.

    Simon Newman, ´March 1939, The British guarantee to Poland, A study in the continuity of British Foreign Policy’, 1976, Oxford
    Comte Jean Szembek, Ancien sous-secrétaire d’État aux Affaires étrangères de Pologne, ‘Journal, 1933 – 1939’, Paris 1952
    Lawrence R. Pratt, ‘East of Malta, West of Suez’, London, 1975

    • Replies: @FB
    , @polskijoe
  58. Avery says:
    @jilles dykstra

    {Your total adds up to 28 million.
    The number usually used of USSR deaths is 20 millions.}

    If you read my post completely before you jumped to conclusions, you ‘ll see I wrote this:
    ‘A total of ~10 million Red Army troops lost their lives’.

    Do you know what the adjective “total” means?
    I believe you are Dutch, or from those parts, so English is not your first language.
    Here we go:
    [to·tal
    ˈtōdl/Submit
    adjective
    1.
    comprising the whole number or amount.
    "a total cost of $4,000"
    synonyms: entire, complete, whole, full, comprehensive, combined, aggregate, gross, overall, final
    "the total cost"]

    The ~3 million Red Army POWs murdered are included in the ~10 million total.
    Clear?
    Reason I listed it separately is because the rest of the Red Army troops were KIA. POWs were deliberately murdered by Nazi savages.

    So the total in my post is ~25 million.
    However, as poster [FB] already noted, the 20 million figure was just a guesstimate that was used in Soviet times: nobody had done a thorough counting at the time. The Russian Academy of Sciences did a thorough analysis: their total came out to 26.6 million.

    As to the rest of your vile neo-Nazi, neo-Hitlerite, denialist, revisionist repulsive bile – poster [FB] already responded. What I will add is that your idol Adolf was too cowardly to stand and go down fighting, and offed himself. And then those Untermenschen Red Army troops stood around and leisurely piiisssssed on the filthy ashes of the alleged Master Race leader.

    Sure hurts your neo-Hitlerite feelings, donit?
    Heil Hitler!
    Sieg Heil!

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  59. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Was there no bravery on the German side ?
    After the Normandy invasion western generals expected the war to be over at Christmas, or even in September, when they tried to take the Dutch bridges, and failed miserably.
    It in my opinion is amazing how one country withstood GB, USSR and USA so long.

    • Agree: utu
  60. Avery says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Hey look, look: the barn door opened and Dr Bovine, MD., waddled out, after having consumed its daily ration of nutritious hay.

    btw: what are you doing rooming with horses in your barn?
    did your cow herd reject you?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  61. @AnonFromTN

    Alas NATO seems to be planning a nuclear war.
    If this war comes, it will be the ‘war that ends all wars’, as Wilson said about WWI, because no human being will survive, as all bigger animals.
    Rats seem to have a chance.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  62. Art says:
    @Norumbega

    A simple explanation for the list of Russian persons who might potentially be sanctioned, is that Congress, as part of the law it passed six months ago, _required_ the production of such a list.

    Have heard that they went to a Forbes list to get the sanction names.

    This looks very very bad – it makes us look ridicules. Congress doing foreign policy is wrong.

    Of course, this is Jew business – AIPAC doings.

    America for America – NOT – America for Israel.

    Think Peace — Art

  63. FB says:
    @jilles dykstra

    What a pathetic clown…

    Sources for German mistreatment of Russian POWs…?

    That’s pretty rich…there is enough academic literature to fill a library…

    Here is just one…

    ‘…The total number of prisoners taken by the German armies in the USSR was in the region of 5.5 million.

    Of these, the astounding number of 3.5 million or more had been lost by the middle of 1944 and the assumption must be that they were either deliberately killed or done to death by criminal negligence.

    Nearly two million of them died in camps and close on another million disappeared while in military custody either in the USSR or in rear areas; a further quarter of a million disappeared or died in transit between the front and destinations in the rear; another 473,000 died or were killed in military custody in Germany or Poland.

    This slaughter of prisoners cannot be accounted for by the peculiar chaos of the war in the east. … The true cause was the inhuman policy of the Nazis towards the Russians as a people and the acquiescence of army commanders in attitudes and conditions which amounted to a sentence of death on their prisoners…’

    Peter Calvocoressi, Guy Wint, Total War

    Here’s one of your brave Nazi heroes shooting a woman carrying a child in the back of her head…

    As for the origins of the word Aryan…that is disputed by who exactly…your illiterate buddies at Stormfront…?

    See…

    Mallory, J. P. (1991), In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Culture and Myth, London: Thames and Hudson

    Oxford English Dictionary: “Aryan from Sanskrit Arya ‘Noble’”

    Thomas R. Trautman (2004): “Aryan is from Arya a Sanskrit word”; page xxxii of Aryans And British India

    Need more…?

    Sheesh…and here I thought I had seen it all from the Hitler fanboys…

  64. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Anon from TN
    Yes, rodents, insects, and simpler life forms will inherit the Earth. The elites, if they start that war, won’t survive, either. Poor consolation for the rest of us, though.

  65. annamaria says:
    @peterAUS

    “The Empire is simply, and logically, putting pressure on pro-Moscow Russian elites.”
    – You need to re-read the article.

  66. @bike-anarchist

    Can Israel be trusted with nukes?

    Definite answer is Yes! Israeli government are not nuts like Kim.
    Wherever Israel did put their nukes, the only reason is that the responsibility and cost of maintenance
    they did put on some other suckers.
    Israel has nothing to fear. If there would be some concentrated and dangerous attack on Israel US air force would be there in the matter of hours. Maybe even Russians would help with their air force.
    To attack Israel is out of question. Maybe some terrorist attack is an option, but that is difficult to prevent

    • Disagree: polskijoe
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  67. annamaria says:
    @Michael Kenny

    Actually, it is your ziocon propaganda that is simplistic: — “…the US should just surrender and “work with” Putin.” — An honest cooperation between the US and Russian Federation would be the best solution for humanity at large. But this cooperation would be the worst outcome for the bloody “chosen” dreaming of Eretz Israel and world dominance, while they can’t stop whining about “eternal victimhood.”
    Since 1999, four million human beings, including a multitude of children, died in the Middle East because of your bloody mythological “promised land” of Israel.

  68. Seraphim says:
    @Jake

    Probably they won’t have any choice. The more that it would be in the heart of the new Eurasian economic configuration. But they still want Ukraine and Crimea. That’s why you hear so much talk about the Khazars.

  69. annamaria says:
    @renfro

    “From the world’s greatest creditor nation, the United States became the world’s greatest debtor—in order to pay for arms to counter the threat of a nation that was collapsing.”
    And look at the corruption within the highest echelons of the US government and security apparatus — the opportunists and ignoramuses have taken the upper hand. This is very convenient for Israel-firsters but deadly for the US.
    The hatred of ziocons towards Russia is boundless and irrational.

    • Agree: renfro
  70. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Anon from TN
    To the best of my knowledge, so far only one country used nukes against humans. And it wasn’t North Korea.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @yurivku
  71. @AnonFromTN

    That should explain to Europeans why Russians don’t take Europe too seriously: they say that every 100 years or so the whole of Europe unites, makes war on Russia, gets beaten to pulp, and then licks its wounds for another century.

    Eh….ever heard of Crimean war? Or this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_I) ?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Cyrano
    , @annamaria
  72. Jake says:
    @bike-anarchist

    What fun can there be in having a ‘state of Israel’ if you can’t act like a Nazi always accusing everybody else of being anti-Semitic Nazi?

    Do any Jews still live in Birobidzhan?

  73. Jake says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Was it the formerly large group of Palestinian Christians? Maybe it was the Irish or Basque. Perhaps the Boer descendants of the men, women, and children the British herded into concentration camps.

    I know: it was the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

  74. polskijoe says:
    @bike-anarchist

    Any place you put large groups of Jews together,
    they will cause trouble, particularly if they are supported by wealthy Jews in other countries.

    You can argue why not mass deport them to Israel. But…

    a)thats not gonna happen, and by the time it may the US will be even different in demographics and culture than today.

    b) Israel has nukes, and International Zionism is very organized, with mossad and money.
    this should have been prevented in the first place. But certain groups in the US allowed Jews to get power too easily.

    Its a tough case to solve.

    • Replies: @Anon
  75. The existence of Group Three shows that there are Trumpeteers even in Russia, while Group Five is made up of clear thinkers who agree with me about Trump and Congress. Really, though, if issuance of The List wasn’t such a dangerous move, it would be good material for a comedy routine.

  76. polskijoe says:
    @jilles dykstra

    That relates to the Rhodes/Pilgrims group.

    Cominbation of CFR and RIIA (Chatham House) and other such groups. In the late 1800s to early 1900s it was Anglosaxon racially dominated. That last about to 1930s. In the 1940s it had a split (some supported Hitler, other didnt not).

    The whole point was to foment war in Europe, aiding both sides (Nazi Germany and Soviets).
    Truman has a quote on that. He was of course a high degree freemason. Along with Churchill.

    But the Germans should not have fallen into the trap, and Hitler was a poor leader from 38-45.
    It wasnt Anglos who walked into Poland, it was Nazi Germany and later Soviets.

  77. polskijoe says:
    @Avery

    The newest study is very good on this,

    search up: Breaking Down Soviet WWII loses by Marko Marjanovic for full details.

    Likeliest Soviet war dead in the Soviet-German War of 1941-1945 may at present be estimated as 25.3 million people. Of this the loss of 1.5 million is attributable to Soviet state repression leaving 23.8 million deaths of Soviet citizens due to war and occupation. The circumstances of these deaths are extremely varied. The largest groups of victims are soldiers who died on the frontlines (7.25 million) and civilians who died of malnutrition and disease. Including 3.1 million deaths among Soviet prisoners of war in German custody the Soviet Union sustained up to 11 million military deaths. The Soviet population suffered over 14.3 million civilian deaths, of which 7.7-8.1 million due to general privation induced by the war and occupation, 2.55 million in the Jewish Holocaust, 1 million in prisons and colonies and camps of the gulag, 0.9 million in the siege of Leningrad and an estimated 650,000 in German anti-partisan reprisals, and more in other circumstances. The Germans and the Axis caused some 15.7 million deaths among Soviet civilians and combatants they had already captured and disarmed. Discounting the deaths of Soviet citizens fighting against the USSR the Soviet Union caused roughly 1.7 million deaths among its civilian population and servicemen in the military.

  78. @KenH

    “If Putin and the Russians are still baffled by American hostility, or rather (((American))) hostility, then it’s time to question the collective IQ and wisdom of the Russian people. ”

    Ken, I think that The Saker is just baffled on their behalf.

  79. polskijoe says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Germany was not alone.

    On the East Front over a million German allies died. Many more joined Wehremact (combination of willingly and against their will).
    Soldiers from Italy, Romania, Hungary, Austria, a few from Poland, Ukraine, Russia itself, Baltics, etc.

    Lets not forget the Pacific, which is were the US was doing most of its work. And the US was giving aid to Germany up to around 41. (Henry Ford, Rockefeller, etc).

    I will give you this. Germany was stronger than UK and France combined probably.
    Brits were lucky at Dunkirk, barely won the BoB. France became split. And underperformed.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  80. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Anon from TN
    Yea, Crimean war is a great example. It was a long time ago, though, 1853-56. “The charge of the light brigade” sure enriched literature, but did not add to British military glory. Russia lost to the united forces of Britain, France, and Ottoman Empire (Sardinia was officially among the victors, too, pretty much like France in WWII). The Crimean war was fought to prevent the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, which collapsed under Russian attacks, anyway. You can take any view of it you like, but compared to Napoleonic wars and WWII I was writing about, this was a local skirmish.
    As to WWI, Russia lost militarily because of its revolution, which shook Europe to its foundations, judging by the reaction of European powers, all of which intervened in the Russian civil war and lost miserably.

  81. Cyrano says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Ever heard of existential threat, sport? WW1 and the Crimean war were not existential threats to Russia. The minute they turned into such, the outcome would have been different.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Bardon Kaldian
  82. headrick says:

    Here is what sanctions do. I recently saw a story about a German farmer/dairy expert who
    went to Russia and jump started a large network of dairy farms in Russia. Before sanctions, Russia thought the could buy their dairy from Europe, but after the sanctions, Russian knew they needed domestic suppliers, and lo an behold, this German (Joint Russian German citizen actually and friend of Putin) was phonemically successful and now there is a robust local Dairy Industry in Russia. Now the people who are howling are the European Farmers who used to have a healthy export market for their products.

  83. @Beckow

    well, if shamir is right and the looted accounts of the old money is equal to 1 trillion usd. that is alot of money for the people in charge to not see green and only green. doubt long term consequences/effects would ever factor into the decision.

  84. Ivan says:

    That the oligarchs made their money through connections, behind the scene deals, outright duplicity and so on, should have been obvious to anyone who studied the phenomenon for a short period of time. Does anyone really believe that all those (largely) Jewish oligarchs indulging in the Premier League and other forms of conspicuous consumption made their money like Henry Ford or Andrew Carnegie, by building industries and providing jobs for millions? The Russian billionaires all made their money by gaming the Russian system. There isn’t a single new service or product that we can associate with these people. The question then arises: Why the belated outrage now? The answer is simple: The thieves in the US, have turned on some fellow thieves from overseas, having run out of ways to fleece the American people

  85. @FB

    War is a war. I estimate that at minimum 70 % people who died in the war died of starvation and diseases. I do remember eating ground corn porridge with no butter no lard or no jam on it. day in and day out..
    If we had potato Kasha with a little grease on it, it was usually Sunday. Also it was also Sunday when we had bean sup with worms floating on top of it. We had eggs sometimes. We totally forgot how a meat tasted. I only cannot imagine what people did eat in concentration camps.
    War was so horrible that people today cannot even imagine
    Days we were hiding in the basement under wooden wash basins.
    Remember. In Leningrad people did eat dead bodies.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………….
    Those people who make war are the most despicable people ever created.

  86. L.K says:
    @FB

    Hey, Stalinist imbecile,

    If you are going to excrete your idiotic propaganda, at least do yourself a favor, and do not post yet again this fake “photo”… in fact, what you posted is a cropped version of the full photomontage which has been analysed and debunked.

    This and many other fake “photos” were produced during and after the war by the Soviets and the other Allies, as well as by organized Jewry. Another common atrocity propaganda technique was and still is to use real photos and give them false, sinister captions. In several cases the originals from which the photomontages were made were found and the fakes exposed, but they are still used, even in “history” books… as well as by cheap, moronic propagandists such as yourself.

    World War 2: Fake Pictures Of German Brutality

    Watch it while you can folks, comments have already been disabled for the vid.

    Also, FB, don’t pretend to care about war crimes; there is a record here of you and your deranged boyfriend, cyrano, cracking joke after joke about the mass rape – and often murder – of German women by the Red Army, rapes that included young girls as well as old women.

    Former Soviet soldiers talk about rape and the murder of German POWs in gleeful manner

  87. Miro23 says:

    Then look a step further and forget about the US for a second: Russia is trying hard to work with the Europeans on many join projects. What do you think the creation of such a list will have on joint ventures between EU and Russian businessmen? I predict two things:

    1. It will place a great deal of pressure on EU corporations not to do business with the Russians and, therefore, it will further place the EU and the US on a collision course.

    2. …….

    I would emphasize this aspect. German industrialists (but not only) are already upset with US interference in German – Russia trade, and actions like this will only make it worse.

    The paradoxical result from the US point of view, is that proposed sanctions serve more to build EU opposition to the US, rather than weaken Russia. Russia is a major market for the EU and the EU doesn’t want US imposed sanctions.

  88. Anon 101 says:
    @Jake

    Jake is a troll.

    There is no subject that he doesn’t derail by going on about Wasps… his intent is to “divide and conquer” the building momentum against neocon foreign policy.

  89. @jilles dykstra

    Yes, you are right of course, the Germans fought valiantly in a war that was, for the most part, forced on them. And their actual war crimes, though real, were on balance not really worse than those committed by the “Allies”. I mentioned Soviet sacrifices simply to preempt the resident Team Russia brigade (whose stupidity manages, impressively, to match even the Americans) from looking for another chip to be knocked off their shoulder.

    BTW the fate of Soviet POWs was indeed terrible, but it wasn’t due to some extermination plan, it was due to the simple fact that the Germans had no realistic way of taking care of so many of them, nor any incentive to do so since the Soviet government refused German offers to come to an agreement re. treatment of prisoners.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  90. @Avery

    You’re a funny guy. Strange the Turks don’t appreciate the Armenian sense of humor.

    • Replies: @Avery
  91. @L.K

    Indeed, I have seen that picture attributed to both Lidice (after Heydrich’s assassination) and the generic shooting of Jews in the Ukraine. It seems to be an all-purpose propaganda pic (although no doubt such ugly things did occur on the Eastern Front, just not in the claimed numbers or as part of some systematic policy).

  92. Seraphim says:
    @Cyrano

    WW1 was an existential threat to Russia. The Crimean war was a skirmish. After only 20 years Russia was nearly annihilating the Ottoman Empire, which was saved again by the intervention of ‘Europe’ (Berlin Congress). The attack on Russia in 1914 was meant again to stop the advance of Russia towards the Straits after the Balkan Wars. The partition of Russia and fomenting the revolution were seriously contemplated by the hotheads in Germany who did not heed the advice of Bismarck to not ‘mess with Russia’. The Ottoman Empire disappeared and Germany lost the war ignominiously.
    No need to mention WW2.

  93. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @polskijoe

    Yes, difficult. But a perfectly feasible, defensible start is simple: cancel double nationality. Void two passports, disqualify for public office / sensitive posts all people having served in foreign army or government (except multilateral system of course).

    Ditto for several years after leaving government positions. Say 10 yrs.

  94. FB says:
    @L.K

    ‘…Also, FB, don’t pretend to care about war crimes; there is a record here of you and your deranged boyfriend, cyrano, cracking joke after joke about the mass rape – and often murder – of German women by the Red Army, rapes that included young girls as well as old women…’

    That’s right…the mass ‘raping’ of German sluts by virile and victorious Russian soldiers is a source of never ending amusement for me…

    The ‘Aryan’ frauleins aren’t known for their ‘virtue’ as many asylum seekers will tell you…

    In any case…the Krauts got what they had coming to them…getting raped by their Slavic ‘inferiors’ would never have happened had they not been stupid enough to invade Mother Russia…

    As for Uncle Joe…he was a winner…

    Unlike that disgusting Fag Fuhrer who blew his brains out…only to have Russian soldiers piss on his ashes…

    And btw…the dirtbag was sexual deviant…engaging in ‘poo sex’…

    https://nypost.com/2016/03/07/adolf-hitler-had-a-truly-disgusting-sexual-fetish

    Sounds like something you might want to try next time you’re choking the chicken in your lederhosen…?

    HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW

  95. @Seraphim

    Germany defeated Russia in WW1.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  96. @FB

    Jesus, you are truly an idiot of grandiose proportions.

  97. ValmMond says:
    @L.K

    So some rear guard Ivans had fun with the local fraus. Yes, the road from Stalingrad to Berlin was paved with the corpses of your conniving ancestors. In retrospect, it’s a small detail in the history of WWII. Remember, it was not the USSR that started it. Of course, I wish I could change the fact that so many of your forefathers/mothers were left alive. But 75 years after we won at Stalingrad, it warms my heart to know that in the end, it was my great-grandfathers who wiped their feet on yours. Peace.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @yurivku
  98. Group three.

    Ignore what he says. Consequences are secondary to neocons; rhetoric is primary.

    Instead, watch what he does (consequences). Qui bono ?

    http://www.oom2.com/f81-q-anon-archive-analytical-discussion

  99. Seraphim says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    It was a Pyrrhic victory. Won the war, lost the peace. Bismarck was proven right, as it would be in WW2 (“Do not expect that once taking advantage of Russia’s weakness, you will receive dividends forever. Russian has always come for their money. And when they come – do not rely on an agreement signed by you, you are supposed to justify. They are not worth the paper it is written. Therefore, with the Russian is to play fair, or do not play”). And Bismarck was no Russophile.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  100. @peterAUS

    Selecting wealthy individuals at random regardless of political beliefs indeed makes no sense at all. Perhaps if you had read the rest of the article you would understand why. Then again, swine don’t typically understand the value of pearls.

  101. Cyrano says:
    @Seraphim

    I am going to have to disagree with you on this one, man. The way I remember WW1 (and I remember it like it was yesterday), the Germans never attempted to march on Moscow – which is the only way a war can qualify as existential threat to Russia.

    Also, I think you are mixing the British with German objectives – it was the British who were obsessed with not allowing Constantinople to fall into anyone’s hands but the Turks. What a wonderful Christians they are, so worried about their Muslim brothers not losing something that doesn’t even belong to them.

    Bismarck was one of the very few smart statesmen that Germany ever had. He knew that the war between the 5 great European powers will happen sooner or later. So he told his successors to be mindful to end up on the side of the 3 against the 2. What did the morons did in WW1? Not only did they end up on the side of the 2 against the 3, they choose the weakest of the 5 as their only ally – Austro-Hungary. And then they wonder why they keep losing wars.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Seraphim
  102. @jilles dykstra

    Which west goals?

    The official policy goals of the (mostly) creeps that are western leaders, not the real interests of the people. I guess I should have been explicit about that, sorry.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  103. @FB

    Thomas E. Mahl, ‘Desperate deception, British covert operations in the United States 1939-44’, Dulles, Virginia, 1998
    Churchill’s propaganda studio in Canada.
    How do you know the picture is real ?

    ” This slaughter of prisoners cannot be accounted for by the peculiar chaos of the war in the east. … The true cause was the inhuman policy of the Nazis towards the Russians as a people and the acquiescence of army commanders in attitudes and conditions which amounted to a sentence of death on their prisoners…’ ”

    Read it carefully, it begins with the word slaughter, this alleged slaughter then is explained by assumptions.
    In reality, German army commanders despised the parti officials who ruled the occupied territories.

  104. @ValmMond

    No, FDR started WWII.
    Charles A. Beard, ‘American Foreign Policy in the Making, 1932 – 1940, A study in responsibilities’, New Haven, 1946

  105. @polskijoe

    Since the Normandy invasion Germany fought alone.
    Dunkirk, Hitler deliberately let them go.
    Heinz Guderian, ‘Panzer Leader’, London 2000, 1952

  106. @Cyrano

    Trotzky in 1917 published the pre war agreement between GB, France and the tsar, to carve up three empires: German; Austria-Hungary, and Ottoman.

  107. yurivku says:
    @Chet Bradley

    You are unhinged.

    Not only her. Stupidity and danger of Empire’s behaviour leads to see this as last and only choice.

  108. Seraphim says:
    @Cyrano

    You must have a fantastic memory for such an advanced age!
    Dismemberment of a country, grabbing its resources, installing what the Germans believed to be a ‘friendly’ government in Russia, was an existential threat. Immediately after the ratification of the Brest-Litovsk Peace, the Kaiser Wilhelm II outlined the plans for the ultimate partition of Russia in four independent states – Ukraine, the Union of the South East, Central Russia, and Siberia.
    Preventing Russia to take Constantinople was a European project. In 1914 Germany took the mantle of defender of the Ottoman Empire with the view of making it their way to the oilfields of the Caspian and Mesopotamia (recently discovered).
    England played her usual perverse role. Despite being allied with Russia it worked underhand to her demise, exactly when Russia was beating the Ottomans and coming close to the oilfields of Persia and Mesopotamia (we are back there).
    The mistake was that they all did not imagine that once the Bolsheviks took power, they would let the pie of the Russian Empire on which they just (unexpectedly) laid their hands on to be sliced.

  109. yurivku says:
    @Avery

    {Two million German citizens died,}
    Crocodile tears.

    As Russian I do not regret of any nazys being killed, but as well as in Hamburg the same they did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is just a bright illustration of what can happen if we had no nuks or stopped to enhance them.
    This is theirs understanding of humanity

    AngloZionsts ((c) Saker) immediately will destroy anybody who dares to resist.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  110. yurivku says:
    @jilles dykstra

    V.L. Kondratjev, ‘De schande van Rzjev’, 1997 Amsterdam (Iskupit krovju, Znamka, december 1991)
    The word schande means ‘disgrace’.
    The book describes how Red Army officers sent their men into death.

    You are a stupid moron. Red Army offices sacrificed theirs lives for people like you could live.
    F*k off your dirty hands from Red Army, you know nothing about it, but every Russian family (mine included) knows.

    Same currenty doing our offices in Syria. Like major Filippor who blown himself with grenade not be captured by “opposition”.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Aedib
  111. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    I am watching Russia tv and see sort of very ugly place which sole existence is to dumb down Russian people and destroy people morals and ethics.

    Sergey, it’s an exageration, yes it’s dumb enough and of cource doing its propaganda work, but don’t think more than Western TV does.

    Now it got dirtier when they pour dirt on Grudinit and his team, but on international scale it’s ok.
    After all many (me including) getting most informaiton from inet, try to watch Den TV (ДЕНЬ ТВ, dentv.ru) or Neiromir (https://neuromir.tv/) and some others.

    Communism is not popular at the moment but I have no doubt it will come back because nothing in the past 25 years convinced me that capitalism is better.

    I do doubt, but sure that its core ideas will find a way for renewal. And yes capitalism is not better, in imperialism form it’s a pure evil.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  112. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    To the best of my knowledge, so far only one country used nukes against humans. And it wasn’t North Korea.

    And they will never apologise. So the will repeat it again and again.

  113. yurivku says:
    @ValmMond

    Just did not expect to meet here this piece of fascistic shit ( @L.K.). Those bastards feel quite comfotable having killed 30 millions of Russians, but those innocent fraus that’s what they think of.

    Reading that I begin to think that UK + US were right where did carpet bombing Dresden and Hamburg, and we had to burn that rotten land completely.

  114. … what these pro-western globalists want is for the AngloZionist Empire to accept Russia as an equal partner and to have Russia fully integrate itself into the US-controlled international financial and security structures: WTO, NATO, EU, G7/8, etc.

    To be an equal partner and to be integrated into the Anglo-Zionist system are mutually exclusive goals.

  115. @Cyrano

    Why would you think that European powers are of necessity contemplating “existential threat” type of war for Russia? Clearly, Russia won (or “won”) only WW2; Napoleon’s invasion was defeated by logistics & sheer lunacy of the enterprise. There was no definite battle in this war.

    Crimean war was, on the other hand, a clear win for European powers, as was Eastern theatre for Central powers during WW1. Germany “lost” only because it was defeated in the West, otherwise it is impossible to predict what would have been.

    Anyway, this is of no importance, since Europe is not a threat to Russia (and vice versa)- unlike China, which is quite another story.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @FB
    , @RadicalCenter
  116. @Seraphim

    Fair enough, but it was failure to resolve the war in the West that forced the Germans to relinquish their gains in the East, not anything the Russians did.

  117. Avery says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    {Anyway, this is of no importance, since Europe is not a threat to Russia (and vice versa)}

    Yes: Russia is no threat to Europe.
    No: Europe, under the control and command of NATO (aka virulently anti-Russian Anglo-American US Neocons) _is_ a threat. If (continental West) Europe was independent, then yeah, they would be no threat. Except for England.

    But since the breakup of SU, NATO has been creeping closer and closer to Russia. They won’t dare to attack directly, because they’ll get nuked to kingdom come, but they now work to weaken and dismember RF by a 1,000 cuts.

    { unlike China, which is quite another story.}

    How is China a threat to Russia?
    Siberia is inhabitable, so how are Chinese going to take it, as the popular “Chinese threat to Russia” trope is constantly recycled.

    • Replies: @anon
  118. Here are two facts what you should consider in your quarrels.
    Anglos and Saxons were two German tribes that were expulsed from midst of German people for their
    aggressive behavior.

    After Kursk battle when German army started to retreat Stalin put into front Units mostly savage Muslims from stan states. Russians only handled the artillery and motorized units.

  119. Avery says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    {You’re a funny guy.}

    Is that like a complement?
    Not sure what to say: it’s not everyday I get a complement on my sense of humor from a beefsteak.

    {…. the Turks don’t …..}

    Now my feeling are hurt.
    (psst: you stupid cow, you think you’d trigger me by bringing up Turks?)

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  120. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Chet Bradley

    It depends on much influence these oligarchs have in Russia political power. If they can sway thing, we might come to surprise that Putin lost the election or have a Supreme court judge removing him or even a coup. Look at what happen in Brazil, Thailand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, …and now Philippine & Mauritius. Popular leaders get remove by abusing justice legal system, police department and corrupted politicians.

    In US, they have complete influence. If Trumps will not abide their command, he will be brought down like now…the world most powerful man Potus is been investigated and treated like fool by its own government bodies that he can’t even fired or have a say no matter how ridiculous they are.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  121. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Chet Bradley

    It depends on much influence these oligarchs have in Russia political power. If they can sway thing, we might come to surprise that Putin might lost the election or have a Supreme court judge removing him or bar him, even a surprise coup. Look at what happen in Brazil, Thailand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Venezuela…and now Philippine & Mauritius. Popular elected leaders get targeted, remove by abusing justice legal system and police department controlled by corrupted politicians and oligarchs, or another Ukraine maidan color revolution.

    In US, they have complete influence. If Trumps will not abide their command, he will be brought down like now…the world most powerful man Potus is been investigated and treated like fool by its own government bodies that he can’t even fired or have a say no matter how ridiculous they are.

    So let’s see how thing turn out. PeterAus see thing differently but sometimes make good sense.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  122. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    US has zero ability to influence the trajectory of Russia…which is straight up…like the Russian rocket launches that take Nasa astronauts into space for the last seven years…

    FB, US does have much tools to influence the World, inc Russia. Its sanction and influence over broad spectrums like financial control, swift, trading, international bodies, has caused much new FDI investment to be withheld, and some useful technologies transfer banned. Of course self sufficient Russia can overcome them in long term working closely with China, but still it bites into Russia international trading, economic growth and other development for short to mid term.

    Many countries controlled by uncle Scam couldn’t deal with Russia, like Japan, Korea, Asean, EU, ME, etc. India snake is now dancing to Uncle Scam’s flute , sabotaging Brics, Obor, etc., a rat shit in every Russia-China soups.

    And Russia is still happily flying US astronauts up even with so much Nasa insults and sanction.

    • Replies: @FB
  123. WhiteWolf says:
    @FB

    You bolshevik apologists never cease to amaze me. The hammer and sickle represents the mass murder of millions of Europeans and insanity only eclipsed by the insanity of the “diversity” religion which threatens to wipe out Whites wherever they are in the world. Whites are to be “diversified” and any who complain are called “haters” or “Naziswhowanttokillsixmillionjews”.

    What victory did the allies win against Hitler? They spent the next few decades fighting against the same ideology he was fighting against in the cold war. At least that was the official narrative. In reality the governments of the allies spent decades creating police states and building up China into the manufacturing powerhouse it is now. All this while flooding their own countries with mass third world immigration.

    The main “winner” from ww2, the US, is now unrecognizable. It’s people driven insane from decades of “diversity” dogma now argue whether a man putting on a dress is really a woman that should be allowed in women’s bathrooms. They argue over how best to bend over to please illegal immigrants lest they be seen as “racist”. They spend countless hours kvetching over how Whites are microaggressing against pocs and trannies and how they need to be “diversified” so the US can be a utopian rainbow nation just like South Africa. I’m sure Americans must be sick of “winning” by now.

    • Replies: @FB
  124. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    US elites are at least open about their ulterior motives, the Europeans fell into a trap of anti-Russian sanctions (which hurt them a lot more than the US, BTW) by virtue of pure hypocrisy.

    Well said, Uncle Scam bare its ugliness, Europeans are pretending to take moral high ground in most hypocrisy. While they are lamenting US evil deeds, they are also collaborating happily everywhere, in every trade exploitation, wars atrocities and sanctions, without single mass protest from their people to stop their leaders. UK, France & Germany Merkel are the foremost gangs of Uncle Scam. In Asia, its Japan Abe, Korea, India Modi, Singapore LeeHL. Down under, Australia is forever its die hard doggie.

  125. @Anon

    Anon
    Obviously you have no clue about Russian mentality and Russian people.
    Russians never had a democracy and they never will.
    From the times of Igor Dolgorukij who established Moskva they always had a one leader and all Russians did follow this leader. He was of course called Czar.
    Putin is now Czar
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
    The only aspect that has a air of democracy is that this Czar is challenged or maybe removed
    by elections in every four years.
    But the function of the system is and always will be Czarist.

    • Troll: FB
  126. FB says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    ‘…Napoleon’s invasion was defeated by logistics & sheer lunacy of the enterprise. There was no definite battle in this war…’

    Wow…it never ceases to amaze how complete ignoramuses have the nerve to post their kindergarten version of ‘history’…

    Here is the final result of Napoleon’s invasion of Russia…the Russian army enters Paris…

    That’s Tsar Alexander I riding triumphantly in front of the Arc de Triomphe… preceded by a Cossack guard…in March, 1814…

    The first time a foreign army had taken Paris in 400 years…

    As for Napoleon’s earlier and disastrous invasion in 1812…the Russians fought a superb strategy…making use of the great size of Russia to pull the enemy in and make logistics impossible…

    The Russians then did give battle in Borodino…

    This was the ‘deadliest battle of the Napoleonic Wars…’

    The result was pretty much a draw…the French failed to gain a decisive victory…which proved to be their undoing…

    After the disastrous French 1812 invasion… Russia marched on France…pulling together a coalition that included Prussia and Austria…both of which fought poorly…

    But the Russians scored victory after victory…culminating in the Battle of Leipzig…

    …the largest battle in Europe before WW1…

    ‘…The supreme commander of the Coalition forces in the theatre and the paramount monarch among the three main Coalition monarchs, the Russian Tsar Alexander I, then ordered all Coalition forces in Germany to cross the Rhine and invade France…’

    As for Crimea…what a joke…it did not take long for the allies to sue for peace…

    ‘…France, which had sent far more soldiers to the war than Britain had, and suffered far more casualties, wanted the war to end, as did Austria…’

    The result was the Treaty of Paris…in which Russian concessions were quite minor…all of which were restored back to Russia by 1871…after the Germans beat the French…

    ‘…Although it was Russia that was punished by the Paris Treaty, in the long run it was Austria that lost the most from the Crimean War despite having barely taken part in it.[8]:433

    Having abandoned its alliance with Russia, Austria was diplomatically isolated following the war,[8]:433 which contributed to its disastrous defeats in the 1859 Franco-Austrian War that resulted in the cession of Lombardy to the Kingdom of Sardinia, and later in the loss of the Habsburg rule of Tuscany and Modena, which meant the end of Austrian influence in Italy.

    Furthermore, Russia did not do anything to assist its former ally, Austria, in the 1866 Austro-Prussian War[8]:433 with its loss of Venetia and more important than that, its influence in most German-speaking lands.

    The status of Austria as a great power, with the unifications of Germany and Italy, was now severely questioned…’

    So Crimean War was basically a mosquito bite for Great Russia…it was mostly a naval war and the British with their unrivaled navy tipped the scales in favor of the allies…but there was no territory gained or held by the allies…

  127. EugeneGur says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    it wasn’t due to some extermination plan, it was due to the simple fact that the Germans had no realistic way of taking care of so many of them

    Naturally, it’s the fault of those pesky Russians that provided such a large number of POWs, so the poor Germans, such nice people at heart, had trouble caring for them and simply had no choice but to kill them or starve to death. And it this is not enough for an excuse, then it is the fault of the Russian government that refused to enter into an agreement about treatment of prisoners. Again, what are the poor Germans to do when dealing with such unreasonable people but to kill the prisoners?

    And their actual war crimes, though real, were on balance not really worse than those committed by the “Allies”.

    They crimes were infinitely worse for one simple reason, if for no other, that they started that war. They started their war on Russia by bombing our sleeping cities. And they went through our land bombing, burning, killing, starving, raping as long as they could. Whatever was done to them later in response was not enough to pay for that, not nearly enough.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  128. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    That’s right…the mass ‘raping’ of German sluts by virile and victorious Russian soldiers is a source of never ending amusement for mock

    FB, what have you just done!?

    All wars are cruel, and no one should justify any cruelty done to others. And we are not responsible for all these war history committed by war criminals, pls don’t speak in such insanity because of anger. This is the worst comment i ever come across.

    Both Russian and Germans are great people, no one should go so low as to make such inhuman comments no matter how provoke, let alone we are having some healthy exchange of views here. You owe everyone esp German people an apology.

    • Replies: @FB
  129. FB says:
    @WhiteWolf

    ‘…You bolshevik apologists never cease to amaze me. The hammer and sickle represents the mass murder of millions of Europeans and insanity…’

    That’s easy for you Stormfront loonies to say now…

    But in 1942 it was a much different story…

    ‘…Stalingrad has been described as the biggest defeat in the history of the German Army. It is often identified as the turning point on the Eastern Front, in the war against Germany overall, and the entire World War II…

    The news of the battle echoed round the world, with many people now believing that Hitler’s defeat was inevitable.

    The Turkish Consul in Moscow predicted that “the lands which the Germans have destined for their living space will become their dying space”.

    Britain’s conservative The Daily Telegraph proclaimed that the victory had saved European civilisation.

    The country celebrated “Red Army Day” on 23 February 1943. A ceremonial Sword of Stalingrad was forged by King George VI. After being put on public display in Britain, this was presented to Stalin by Winston Churchill at the Tehran Conference later in 1943…’

    That was the reality my tiny little friend…

    The Red Army did indeed save European civilization…which is why Britain heaved a huge collective sigh of relief after Stalingrad…

    Everyone…including Churchill…knew that the mighty Wermacht could crush Britain like a walnut…with no more effort than it took to crush France in a matter of weeks…

    Now that your sorry is ass is safe and sound you repay the sacrifice of the Red Army and the Russian people by pissing on them…

    That is what makes losers keep losing…

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  130. FB says:
    @Anon

    The US days of dominating anything are quickly coming to a close…

    The entire US Ponzi scheme economy is unsustainable…and is living off the petrodollar…which allows it to print free money…

    But the petrodollar’s days are already numbered…Russia is the world’s biggest energy producer…and China is the biggest consumer…they are already trading in ruble and yuan…

    Venezuela has already ditched the petrodollar…Iran is just about to slam the door shut…and will be followed by Iraq as soon as the US is kicked out again…

    Even KSA will have to bend to China’s will and start accepting yuan instead of dollars…

    The five Brics countries already have a greater combined GDP than the G7…

    The present world financial system is coming to a crash…and the US house of cards will implode spectacularly…

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @polskijoe
  131. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Avery

    { unlike China, which is quite another story.}

    How is China a threat to Russia?
    Siberia is inhabitable, so how are Chinese going to take it, as the popular “Chinese threat to Russia” trope is constantly recycled.

    China pay to buy resources Russians want to sell.
    UKUSNato will pay them with bomb.

    So China is a threat, but to Anglozionist. So they love hyping China threats to frighten Ruskies, Anglo best expertise.

    Btw, China had already settled all borderline with Russia. Even they could take back Siberia portion that SU took from them previously, no one can use it after the nuke war. The Chinese know, not the stupid Anglo.

  132. @Giuseppe

    Russia is bleeding out as well. Putin has been slowly driving the country to bankruptcy and he can’t afford to maintain his invading forces in Crimea and Donbas anymore, much less his friendly aid to Assad (although I think Assad is the best option for Syria and its people, but that’s another issue).

    Which brings us to,

    the real, dangerous, opposition to Putin is not from the people

    Putin is not stupid. having cut his teeth in the KGB he realizes what he must to do hang onto power, and allowing any sort of legitimate political opposition would be deadly to those aspirations. Consequently, anyone that even remotely appears to be a threat to his desires is either arrested, or murdered. Russia may have the appearance of Democracy, but it’s about as democratic as Red China. Putin is simply quieter in how he deals with his opposition.

    The US is doomed as well, but for different reasons than Russia. I expect Russia to collapse sooner, but predicting the timing of such things is impossible.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Avery
    , @Anon
  133. bluedog says:

    Well one things for sure about Russia’s army in the Crimea and Dunbas, and that is ghost armies don’t require that much to live and fight on,and as far as a bankruptcy we will see one long before Russia does…

  134. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    The US days of dominating anything are quickly coming to a close…

    The entire US Ponzi scheme economy is unsustainable…and is living off the petrodollar…which allows it to print free money…

    No doubt about this. Still it will be some time for all these petrol yuan to work out, China & Russia aren’t in hurry to collapse the world suddenly. Many countries are holding huge amount of USD without alternative trade currency to replace, all reserved currency USD, Euro, Yen, Pounds are free printing money since Oboma started QE.

    I remembered reading Singapore government after visited Russia under Putin’s invitation, had declared there are much business opportunities and how Russia was indispensable in managing global affairs, urging its people to go see themselves to invest. Singapore was one of top investor in China FDI with generous know how transfer in many areas esp Industrial parks. These are very useful for Russia. But after Oboma interfered, its Russophobia news.

    The controlling of world leaders to hit targeted countries are still very much a powerful tool at Uncle Scam disposal. So can’t said sanction is not biting Russia, but its a blessing in disguise that everyone do see, forcing Russia to expedite restructure of its economy, as the author said.

    • Replies: @FB
  135. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    It depends on much influence these oligarchs have in Russia political power.

    Not necessarily.

    You go for, say, option “100 %”, remove Putin and change the course of the regime in full.
    Nahh…..that’s not realistic and it is not the intention of people who pushed these sanctions.

    These sanctions are just a small part of overall pressure on Russia.
    The idea, I believe, is to create a dissent among that class….or layer….of Russian society.
    The dissent, consequently, weakens Putin internal and external leverage and that’s all.

    And, in essence, the conflict between Russia and The Empire (or any other name for the current US led West) simply got escalated a notch.

    Russophiles and West haters here, a majority, see that as a good thing, strengthening Russia in fact.
    I don’t.

    So let’s see how thing turn out.

    Especially in Donbass.

  136. FB says:
    @Quartermaster

    ‘…Russia is bleeding out as well. Putin has been slowly driving the country to bankruptcy…’

    I guess I should not be surprised anymore at the utterly moronic statements that show up here…

    The GDP of Russia in 2017 was nearly that of Germany…and it will overtake both Germany and Japan in the coming years…

    In terms of GDP per capita Russia is today a middle income country…with about half the GDP per capita of the US…

    What is even more important is that Russia is a superpower in technology and education…Russia graduates twice as many engineers as the US…despite having less than half the population…

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/06/09/the-countries-with-the-most-engineering-graduates-infographic/#10d72ee7667d

    There is no substitute for hard sciences in the modern world…the US is clearly falling behind and this will only continue…

    The US has not had the capability to put humans into space for seven years now…and is reliant on Russia for that job…

    It even relies on Russia to launch its military satellites using Russian rocket engines…which are far superior to anything the US can come up with…

    https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/space/why-does-u-s-use-russian-rockets-launch-its-satellites-n588526

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  137. @yurivku

    Imperialism is simply a stage in capitalism development because capitalism requires constant expansion and more and more resources. Multiplier world of capitalism will be just a can with lots of scorpions. Regarding communism or socialism it is logical continuation. The brutal part of what happened in our country in the beginning was due to lots of pressure due to unresolved problems of the past, peasant question would be one and foreign interferences would be second. Then internal fight among various factions and a lot of things we do not know. But eventually things started working with some issues as it was first time. Second time will be better especially that capitalism is failing. We have only the first channel and it looks like it all shows are made to dumb down, distract or bring out the worst. Old Malakhov show was like a horror show. Now competition is bringing abandoned legless men. Films about Soviet past are particularly nasty. Cannot recognize us. Zero programs like Ochevidnoe neveroyatnoe, Mir zgivotnyhand so forth
    On the first channel.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  138. FB says:
    @Anon

    Don ‘t get your panties in a knot…

    I was responding to a complete moron who keeps harping on about these alleged mass rapes…

    Murder is much worse than rape…we can all agree on that I would think…

    How many innocent women and children were murdered by fanatical Nazi butchers…?

    In Russia it was millions…ordinary people, farmers and peasants just exterminated as the German Army marched through Russia…

    So I don’t have any problem with the rapes that came AFTER that…

    Do you expect a country whose citizens were murdered and starved on a massive scale to not take some vengeance…?

    The Nazis were lucky that Russian anger was limited to just rapes…instead of just going around and shooting every civilian they come across…

    …which is what the US fascists do everywhere they go today…ie Afghanistan…Iraq…etc…

    I agree the German and Russian people are good people…and they should be friends and are in fact natural allies…

    It is the brainwashed morons in the US that are the problem…

    • Replies: @Anon
  139. peterAUS says:
    @yurivku

    A brave man and a tough guy.
    Respect.

    Having said that…….from available info, a couple of things:
    Russians didn’t know MANPADs were there.
    They used the same tactics for some time there.
    More importantly, the plane was using dumb ordnance, so had to go low. This element is…….interesting, perhaps.
    And, the pilot wasn’t using countermeasures (perhaps not enough in stock, perhaps too expensive to allocate there).
    Then, there wasn’t any stand by rescue team (you know, the supersoldiers of Spetznaz type) supported by, also, stand by force of ground attack planes and helicopter gunships to support the rescue. Too expensive, perhaps, as well?
    Or simply not part of the planning in the first place? Or combination of both?
    And, when we are on the topic, the killed pilot was Ukrainian, not Russian. He choose not to join Ukrainian armed forces in 2014.
    So, individually, a great feat. Organizationally, not so great.
    One thing is sure, though. We’ll see more of that.

    Now, to be fair, on organizational level, there was an effort to retaliate and that was good.
    Not great, but good enough.

    Now, back to smart ordnance/systems and their price.
    Money.
    Sanctions?

    • Replies: @Aedib
    , @FB
  140. @FB

    You appear to be a deep thinking person.
    Here is this Wally who religiously is referencing to this Codoh site.
    A while ago he did refer to Hitler’s speech before attacking Soviet Union.
    I did read that speech very carefully.

    From that speech I did come to two conclusions.
    The claim that Germany and Russia did attack Poland simultaneously is a lie.
    Russians were not even near Poland. Some Russian units were in in Lithuania.

    Hitler’s speech also is confirmation that it was a German army that executed the Katin massacre.

    • LOL: L.K
  141. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    I gave you links, try to watch those, there are alot of interesting materials. What about malakhov and co – yes, it’s just a yellow shit

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  142. FB says:
    @Anon

    ‘…So can’t said sanction is not biting Russia…’

    I disagree…

    US sanctions are useless against a powerful country like Russia…they only work on weak states like Iraq…and to some extent Iran because Iran had a lot of dollar assets due to selling oil in dollars…

    The Swift money transfer thing is hugely overblown…the Swift is a single privately owned company…

    Everybody uses it to transfer money because it was the only game in town…but now both Russia and China have developed their own respective alternatives when it became clear that US weaponized Swift…

    The self-defeating US sanctions have only worked to hurt Europe more than Russia…which is why we hear all the time European business leaders and even governments [Italy] complaining loudly…

    The attempt to sabotage NordStream 2 with the latest sanctions was a step too far for Germany…which is the economic locomotive of Europe…

    If you do the math on energy prices…[which very people have done...and I would bet nobody on this website]…you will see that natural gas costs one-tenth the amount of gasoline…

    US shale gas is going to run out in a few years…

    ‘…But a new report throws cold water on the thinking that U.S. shale production will be around for the long haul.

    The Post Carbon Institute conducted an analysis of the top seven oil and top seven natural gas plays, which together account for 89 percent of current shale oil production and 88 percent of shale gas production.

    The report found that both shale oil and shale gas production will peak before 2020…’

    Like everything else about the US…its supposed military capability…its supposed lead in technology…etc…etc…the whole shale thing is just a mirage…

    Pure hyperbole and Madison Ave. marketing glitz…with nothing real to support the BS…

  143. Aedib says:
    @peterAUS

    You still seem butthurt by Saker articles

  144. Avery says:
    @Quartermaster

    { Putin has been slowly driving the country to bankruptcy…’}

    Debt-to-GDP ratio (2016)

    Russia 17%
    US 106%
    France 96%
    UK 89%
    Germany 68%

    Foreign exchange reserves in US dollars (2017)

    Russia $450 billion (#5 on the list: #1 China)
    Germany $200 billion
    France $175 billion
    UK $158 billion
    US $123 billion

    US is a lot closer to bankruptcy than Russia.

    And as the reserve currency status of US$ erodes over time, it will become increasingly difficult for US to pay for valuable commodities and goods/services with paper-and-a-promise, which the dollar is: same as any other paper currency, except up until recently there was no choice but to accept US dollars for international trade. US could print as many dollars as necessary and countries had to accept it, regardless of its intrinsic value.

    And a lot of our “wealth” here in US is based on vapor: Facebook is valued at $540 billion.
    Boeing is valued at $200 billion.
    Caterpillar is valued at $90 billion.
    Both Boeing and Caterpillar produce excellent products that the world wants and buys.
    FB produces nothing.

    • Agree: FB, bluedog
    • Replies: @Anon
  145. annamaria says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Was it the lost glory of Ottoman Empire, which you care about? Why the Crimea — the Russian territory — has been a concern for the perfidious Albion hundreds miles away? Look for the current UK’ defense secretary Gavin Williamson, this ignorant and cocky opportunist and former salesperson with zero (0) military experience. Williamson is all for a war with Russia (as the influential Friends of Israel told him to be). Anything goes in a fight with Russians – including the rise of neo-Nazism in Ukraine “liberated” by the Kagans’ clan.
    Ziocons are the enemy of western civilization. Just look at the carnage in the Middle East and the related massive migration to Europe, and at the ziocon-controlled Congress of the rotten and hapless US Empire.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  146. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Quartermaster

    he can’t afford to maintain his invading forces in Crimea and Donbas anymore, much less his friendly aid to Assad

    Most don’t see Russia as invading force in US instigated Crimea & Ukraine crisis. Putin did a good job in Crimea, except Ruskies shouldn’t humiliate Ukrainian guarding soldiers doing their duty. All patriotic soldiers should be honored.

    Ukraine is a low intensity war that Russia can sustain long, but it might be better if Putin will to go all out to support Russian ethnics from start threatening with full military response to Kiev and Washington. That will avoid all the unnecessary life loses and suffering dragging now. He needs to be very manly like Xi to deal with clowns instead of wasting time reasoning out.

    Syria war is bleeding profusely, wander who is feeding so many Syrians now, and pay all the war expenditures. Anyone know? I guess China is giving a big helping hand together with Iran, as all hope Russia & Assad can eliminate UKUSNato terrorists that threaten the world. Its better to fight them in Syria than at homeland.

    Consequently, anyone that even remotely appears to be a threat to his desires is either arrested, or murdered. Russia may have the appearance of Democracy, but it’s about as democratic as Red China. Putin is simply quieter in how he deals with his opposition.

    With Putin’s stellar performance, i have yet to hear anyone disapprove of his leadership except from USUK brainwashed nations. 70~80% people support is a wet dream for any Western leaders can ever dream of. Only Xi has that similar support from all patriotic Chinese i know, not out of coincident, but their similar excellent performance. Cuba, Venezuela too.

    Western Democracy is a laughable circus, just look at what leaders they have elected in last 50yrs esp now. Any clowns can be put up by interest groups for choosing the less evil. A comedian for Potus, oil CEO for State Secretary, Goldman Sachs banker for Treasury, a shrieking Nikki for UN ambassador…you must be overdose with opiods to have electing utter inexperienced clowns running a superpower country with nuke. May be clown Boris is good for UK to add some jokes with May.

    Red China socialism is a true democracy, where the best proven patriotic elites are carefully tested and chosen by qualified old guards to lead the country. The closest resemble is Singapore fake democracy under LeeKY, producing unparalleled result.

    Russia should abolish democracy that easily subvert by West, and adopt China impregnable system. Putin needs to put up a solid system quickly incase he got eliminated by CIA or disgruntled oligarchs.

    The US is doomed as well, but for different reasons than Russia. I expect Russia to collapse sooner, but predicting the timing of such things is impossible.

    You are really high on opiods.

  147. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Yah… but im seeing Russians losing their usual cool over continuous US provoke. Yurivku is one suffering too. If sane people like you are losing cool, how much is ordinary Ruskies losing sleeps with anger. So these sanctions and psy-ops are indeed biting into Russians daily life.

    But i agreed self sufficient Russia who can literally produce everything can be immune to sanction once it decided to decouple from Western systems. Still it causes much hassle. Now that Russia is warning its people not to travel unnecessary as US is trying to arrest Russians in puppet countries, that will add another agitation.

    I like your usual factual debate and good linguistic skill, but that rape statement is too far fetched imo. Those war criminals in history had done grave wrongs, we should learn from history not to repeat. I always admire Ruskies & Germans might in fighting spirits and technologies, but not when they fight over war…

    Do what your enemies hate most to see, ie eat and sleep well, life as usual. Like China, Russia has excellent team of super cool headed leaders, they know how to manage. Give me your Putin and Lavrov, I will give you Trumps & Nikki. :)

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  148. FB says:
    @peterAUS

    ‘…And, the pilot wasn’t using countermeasures (perhaps not enough in stock, perhaps too expensive to allocate there)…’

    Why do you insist on jumping into technical discussions on the subject of aerial combat when you have repeatedly demonstrated in the past that you know nothing about the subject…?

    The problem here is that this pilot was flying alone…

    The usual tactic in both ground attack and in air to air missions is to fly in two-ship formations…

    For whatever reason…this was not the case here…

    Which means the pilot did not see the manpad heatseeker coming on him from behind…which is obviously why he did not deploy flares…which would have defeated the shot without any trouble…

    If he had a wingman with him like he was supposed to…the wingman could have spotted the missile shot and the pilot could have defeated the shot easily…

    We recall the Syrian Su22 pilot [this is an ancient aircraft that dates back to the 1960s] that was shot down by a USN FA18 last year…

    He defeated the first missile shot…a heat-seeking AIM9X from extremely close range of half a mile…by releasing flares that diverted the missile…

    The FA18 pilot then got him with a second shot using a radar-guided missile…

    The clueless US media was quite stunned that an ancient Soviet plane could defeat a modern US heatseekeer at pinpoint range…but the effectiveness of Russian flares is well known in USAF circles which test Russian and Soviet equipment…

    http://www.combataircraft.net/2017/06/23/how-did-a-30-year-old-su-22-defeat-a-modern-aim-9x/

    The problem with manpad shots is that they can only be identified VISUALLY…no airplane in existence has a warning system that can detect a manpad shot…

    This is because…unlike air-launched heatseekers which are aimed by the aircraft radar and will illuminate the target aircraft’s radar warning receiver [RWR]…the manpad does not have any radar nor emits any radio signals…

    It is simply aimed by hand and the IR seeker on the missile homes in on the engine heat…

    So if you don’t have a wingman with you that is watching your six…you may not see the manpad shot coming…

    Your narrative is complete and utter bullshit…

    Also it is not clear whether this airplane was in fact on a ground attack mission or a simple patrol mission…

    The fact that he was downed near Saraqib…which is miles away from the front…suggests it was a patrol mission over the de-escalation zone…as the Russians have said…

    As for guided munitions etc…the Russians retaliated almost instantly with highly precise strikes that wiped out 30 terrorists…

    Also all the Su24s…the ‘heavy’ tactical bombers…as well as the Su25s…the light attack aricraft for close ground support…are equipped with the SVP24 precision guidance system which is basically an air-data computer on the aircraft that measures all the relevant atmospheric and positional parameters and releases ‘dumb’ bombs at the precise moment for hitting the target accurately…

    The CEP is said to be only several meters…

    The US approach has been to use a JDAM kit to strap onto dumb bombs…this uses an inertial guidance system [ie gyro-based]…as well as GPS…

    The problem with this is that GPS signals are ridiculously easy to jam even with amateur equipment…while a cheap inertial system [the JDAM kit costs $25,000] is not going to be very precise…

    Either way the objective of both approaches is to turn the vast inventories of dumb bombs into something more accurate…

    But again…all indications are that the mission this pilot was flying had nothing to do with dropping ordnance…so your yapping about dumb bombs [and even sanctions for christ's sakes] is irrelevant…

    The patrol mission may also explain why he was flying without a wingman…the assumption on the part of the mission planners may have been that since the mission was over a de-escalation zone that a two-ship was not required…

    This thinking may obviously change going forward…

    In any case the Su25 is an excellent aircraft for its role…unlike the Fairchild/Republic A10 ‘Warthog’ it is heavily armored…with a titanium tub encasing the cockpit…it can withstand heavy ground fire and keep going…

    Its twin 30 mm cannon are its main weapon…and this is highly effective for ground support where you have fighting going on in close proximity…[same for the A10 and its Gatling gun...

    Precision strike weapons are quite useless for this...they simply cannot get close enough to action in tight quarters...so the ground-pounder has a very important niche that cannot be supplanted by precision munitions as you are yapping without a clue...

    To be fair...your point about the lack of standby rescue teams does hold water...they should have had a helo standing by with an extraction crew...

    In any case...the most important issue here is that it takes a very highly trained specialist to take a good manpad shot...[and there is also quite a bit of luck involved...]

    So clearly it is not just a matter of where the manpad came from…it may well be a Soviet or Russian Strela or Igla…but who actually provided this very crucial training…?

    • Replies: @Avery
  149. Cyrano says:
    @annamaria

    Do you know how the Ottoman empire got its name? It’s because the Turks are lazy bums, who enjoyed lounging on ottomans while letting the janissaries fight their wars for them.

    The janissaries of course being stolen Christian children – mostly from the Balkans and as such probably mostly Slavs.

    As a declining (and reclining – presumably on ottomans) power, the Ottoman empire circa 1853 was in advanced stage of decay, which not even the janissaries could keep afloat anymore.

    But in come the British to save the day, because you see the British were multiculturalists even back then. They fought for Europe to preserve its multicultural flavor, by allowing the Turks to keep their European possessions, which of course the Turks kept to this day – thanks to the British.

    And now the Brits are wondering why their country is turning into s**t. Because they charted a wrong course a long, long time ago, and the real troopers that they are, they refuse to change that course.

  150. Avery says:
    @FB

    {…they should have had a helo standing by with an extraction crew…}

    Well, maybe.

    Last time RuAF tried to rescue the pilots of Su-24 hit by Turks, the rescue helicopter was shot at by the terrorists and was forced to emergency-land. One marine of the rescue team was killed.
    The others in the helicopter were later rescued.
    It could have been much worse: a manpad hit on the helicopter could have resulted in a lot KIA in a crashed rescue helicopter.

    Fortunately one of the Su-24 airmen was eventually rescued by combined efforts of Russians and Syrians.

    I understand pilots have to know that his buddies will always come for him if he goes down, but you can lose a lot of men during a rescue operation, and lose the pilot too.
    Tough decision.

    One thing for sure: the young pilot went down like a true warrior.
    The Jordanian pilot who was captured alive by the terrorists was publicly humiliated (stripped naked and paraded), and was killed anyway: burnt alive.

    • Replies: @FB
  151. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Avery

    They have been crying China(holding 3~4Trillions US Treasury with no external debts) will be bankrupt for many years, now its Russia turn. Even if Russia stop trading with everyone, life still goes on, what is there to bankrupt? Even NKorea, Cuba, Iran didn’t bankrupt but doing well under heavy sanction.

    All US & its allies(inc Japan & India) have highest debts, lowest reserve, yet no one cry foul and their rating agencies continue to rate themselves highly. US is already a bankrupt country, awaiting to implode once it loses Petrol dollar status.

  152. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    So these sanctions and psy-ops are indeed biting into Russians daily life.

    Average Russian daily life so far. And some industries.
    This latest is designed to bite where it hurts a bit more: in “high class” Russians daily life.

    ….self sufficient Russia who can literally produce everything can be immune to sanction once it decided to decouple from Western systems.

    True.
    When is that going to happen is another matter.
    If ever.

    Still it causes much hassle. Now that Russia is warning its people not to travel unnecessary as US is trying to arrest Russians in puppet countries, that will add another agitation.

    Yup.
    Those who do travel abroad. Not your average Russian, though.
    Well…there is a plus side there: no increase in Russian accent at the beach where I do my daily walks/swims.
    One can only hope.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  153. @Bardon Kaldian

    You’re right that the UK and the EU countries are no threat to Russia. They will soon be violent, chaotic, impoverished, fearful, less productive places dominated by Islamic idiocy and cruelty and Arab, African, or Turkish thugs (depending on the particular former Western country in question).

    Whether Russia is a threat to the Europeans, doesn’t seem as clear longer-term.

    Once the US is unable to help western and Central Europe, Russia’s armed forces would have no problem mopping up the forces of Germany, France, UK, Italy, and Poland. Then again, Russia seems to still have a slowly declining ethnic-Russian and nonMuslim population, so eventually they might have a hard time fielding sufficient loyal troops.

    Also, in 25 years time, who knows whether the MUSLIM president of France and the MUSLIM prime minister of the UK might be willing to nuke Russia in a conflict. Sad prospects for us and our Russian cousins.

  154. FB says:
    @Avery

    That previous rescue mission showed what the biggest threat is to helos…ground fire…

    They can handle manpads no problem since they have the same [very effective] flares…plus they are hard to surprise…

    All things considered there is no reason not to have an evac mission always on standby as routine procedure…

    I remember back to US bombing of Serbia in ’99 that they got out both the F117 pilot and David Goldfein…who got his F16 shot out from under him [by the same air defense brigade]…Goldfein now of course the USAF chief of Staff…

    Here’s part of his F16 wr5eckage on display in aviation museum, Belgrade…

    The advantage a helo has in these extractions is operating at night…in both cases both USAF pilots had to hide until nightfall…

    That might not have been possible in this case…those bearded rats got there in a hurry…basically Filipov had no chance…

    Full Props for going out like a true hero…

    I will say here that Putin’s decision to draw down forces prematurely is to blame here…that was a politically motivated decision aimed to placate Turkey and give a signal to the US that they should pull out too…

    But right now there is a huge advance by the SAA which already captured half of Idlib…

    This is not the time to take out aircraft from Syria…

    Also the Turks are still supporting these maniacs in Idlib…Putin’s calculus seems to be that he needs to keep Turkey in the ‘peace process’ game…but Erdog is making him pay a maximum price…

  155. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    Part of the list:

    Alisher Usmanov
    Roman Abramovich
    Suleiman Kerimov
    Eugene Kaspersky,
    Pyotr Aven
    Vladimir Potanin.
    Arkady and Boris Rotenberg,
    Gennady Timchenko,
    Oleg Tinkov,
    Viktor Vekselberg
    Vadim Yakunin.

    Alexei Miller
    Igor Sechin,
    Sergey Chemezov
    Andrey Kostin,
    German Gref
    Sergey Gorkov

    We must feel sorry for those…ahm….poor men….each of them a stellar example of an average Russian struggling to make a decent living.
    Funny.

    Well, on a negative side I’ll miss staring at those super-yachts passing by while fishing. From a pier or a dingy.
    Or Lamborghinis screaming past my Toyota. Or Hyundai.
    Hopefully.

  156. polskijoe says:
    @FB

    Unfortunetly, I dont see BRIC as so stable.

    Brazil has so many faction infighting. They pro US, pro Russians, and many other in betweens.
    India appears to be more changing toward America, while Pakistan the other way.

    • Replies: @FB
  157. L.K says:
    @FB

    Hey Stalinist pig,

    Regarding your crocodile tears over Soviet POW deaths… why don’t you tell us all about Stalin’s war on the Soviet POWs, during and even AFTER the war was over?

    You could start with Stalin’s Order No. 270.?

    If … “instead of organizing resistance to the enemy, some Red Army men prefer to surrender, they shall be destroyed by all possible means, both ground-based and from the air, whereas the families of the Red Army men who have been taken prisoner shall be deprived of the state allowance [that is, rations] and relief.”
    The commanders and political officers … “who surrender to the enemy shall be considered malicious deserters, whose families are liable to be arrested [just] as the families of deserters who have violated the oath and betrayed their Motherland.”

    As Russian journalist Teplyakov put it:

    Just a few lines, but they stand for the hundreds of thousands of children and old folks who died from hunger only because their father or son happened to be taken prisoner.”

    That the stuff about destroying Soviet pows even from the air was real is underscored by how Soviet airstrikes targeted, on purpose, overcrowded soviet POW camps, such as Orel and Novgorod-Severkij.

    Go on, tell us all about how the Stalin regime REFUSED German attempts to negotiate observance of the Geneva Convention on prisoners of war, and how that had a devastating impact on Soviet pows;

    British historian Robert Conquest explains in his book Stalin: Breaker of Nations, the Soviets adamantly refused to cooperate:

    “When the Germans approached the Soviets, through Sweden, to negotiate observance of the provisions of the Geneva Convention on prisoners of war, Stalin refused. …”

    Teplyakov tells us the fates of captured Soviet Generals Pavel Ponedelin and Nikolai Kirillov…

    They staunchly withstood their years in the German camps. In April 1945 the [western] Allies set them free and turned them over to the Soviet side. It seemed that everything had been left behind, but they were not forgiven for August 1941. They were arrested after a “state check-up”: five years in the Lefortovo jail for political prisoners and execution by a firing squad on August 25, 1950.

    While you are at it, pig, also do tell us about how the Soviet regime executed 158.000 Red Army troops during the war…

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Ivan
  158. L.K says:
    @EugeneGur

    Your post belongs to the fiction category.

    More on Stalin’s war on Soviet POWs:

    Historian Nikolai Tolstoy, writes in his book ‘Victims of Yalta: The Secret Betrayal of the Allies 1944-1947′:

    “…nor did it(Soviet government) become a signatory of the Geneva Convention of 1929, which defined more precisely the conditions to be accorded to prisoners of war.
    Despite this, immediately after war broke out in June 1941, the German Government approached the International Red Cross Committee with a view to regulating the conditions of prisoners on both sides. Lists of Russian prisoners were passed to the Soviet Government until September 1941. They then stopped, in the face of continued Soviet refusal to reciprocate. Over the winter the Germans made further efforts to establish relations with the Soviets with a view to introducing the provisions of the Hague and Geneva Conventions, but were rebuffed again.4 The Red Cross Committee itself then took a hand, approaching the Soviet ambassadors in London and Sweden; these made favourable noises, but on referring the matter to Moscow reverted to an impassive refusal.5

    Meanwhile Germany’s allies, Italy, Rumania and Finland, after likewise trying in vain to come to any mutual arrangement, decided to apply the terms of the Conventions unilaterally to the Russian prisoners in their hands. This generous gesture evoked no response either.6….

    Not surprisingly, the attitude of the German Government to their Russian prisoners began to harden,8 and those sections of opinion that opposed ill-treatment lost the influence they might otherwise have had. …

    Hitler himself urged Red Cross inspection of camps. But an appeal to Stalin for prisoners’ postal services received a reply that clinched the matter: ‘There are no Russian prisoners of war. The Russian soldier fights on till death. If he chooses to become a prisoner, he is automatically excluded from the Russian community.”

    American historian M. Weber writes:

    “Given this situation, the German leaders resolved to treat Soviet prisoners no better than the Soviet leaders were treating the German soldiers they held. As can be imagined, Soviet treatment of German prisoners was harsh. Of an estimated three million German soldiers who fell into Soviet hands, more than two million perished in captivity. Of the 91,000 German troops captured in the Battle of Stalingrad, fewer than 6,000 ever returned to Germany.”

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/Teplyakov.html

  159. RobinG says:
    @Chet Bradley

    “The official policy goals…” [remember, stated goals do not equal actual goals] “…of the (mostly) creeps that are western leaders…”

    The “real interests of the people” don’t enter the picture.

  160. FB says:
    @L.K

    I think we may have a case of compensation here…

    Your Fag Fuhrer notably suffered from a tragic condition with his…uhm…’manhood…’

    ‘…Adolph Hitler had a genital deformity that made his penis remarkably small, according to historians citing previously unknown medical records…

    The diminutive tyrant suffered from a condition called hypospadias — which left him with a micropenis…’

    Hitler’s Last Day: Minute by Minute…by Jonathan Mayo and Emma Craigie…

    ‘…Hitler himself is believed to have had two forms of genital abnormality: an undescended testicle and a rare condition called penile hypospadias in which the urethra opens on the underside of the penis…’

    Two months ago, German historian Professor Peter Fleischmann said he found proof in medical records that Hitler had just one testicle — which had long been rumored…

    Poor little guy…

    ‘…The tiny terror’s anatomy may explain why he gave instructions in his will that his body be burned after his death–fearing that his body would be paraded by his Russian captors….

    Following the war, those in Hitler’s inner-circle spoke openly about the dictator’s bizarre sex life.

    “By no means would I describe Adolf Hitler as sexually normal in his relationships with women,” said late Nazi architect Albert Speer…’

    https://nypost.com/2016/02/22/hitler-had-a-really-tiny-penis/

    But there is good news…women who have had ‘encounters’ with very ‘small’ men say…

    ‘…if he was a nice guy and attentive and generous in bed, the size didn’t matter…’

    There ya go…Cheer up little fella…there is always the ‘poo sex…’

    • Replies: @L.K
  161. FB says:
    @polskijoe

    I agree that politically the Brics are not very cohesive…

    However…when it comes to matters of economics…we have four countries that have suffered for centuries from colonial looting…China, India, Brazil and South Africa…

    None of these countries are happy with the current world financial architecture…dominated by the West and for the benefit of the West…

    All of these peoples are very much in favor of ending the present neo-colonial system of exploitation…you can be sure of that…

    Do you think anybody is happy about the US sponging off the rest of the world…?

    That’s coming to an end…

  162. @Avery

    You’ve already been triggered, that’s what happens when you don’t take your meds.

    • Replies: @Avery
  163. @EugeneGur

    The Soviet government used it’s disregard for it’s subjects’ lives as a weapon, the Germans can hardly be held to blame for that.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @EugeneGur
  164. Ivan says:
    @L.K

    We have to spare a thought for that other and greater butcher JV Stalin, whenever we think of the monster AH. Thanks for putting the Stalin fags on the defensive.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  165. L.K says:
    @FB

    Yawnn…

    Just as I thought… You got nothing…

    :-)

  166. Avery says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    {…. when you don’t take your meds.}

    You are one smart beefsteak.
    Did your bovine brain come up with that highly original thought, or was it the horse next to your stall?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @FB
  167. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Lots of brainwashing have been going on in Russia… I’ve watched even cross talk Peter Lavelle and guests ridiculously talking about how the SU “liberated” Poland, the Baltic states, etc. Quite pathetic.

    These trolls exhibit a level of idiocy, chauvinism, malice, and a capacity to lie that reminds me of the zionist troll brigade at work here at unz and elsewhere.

    As Russian historian Nikolay Koposov said:

    …The “defense” of the national past against the “blackeners” is seen as the foundation of national cohesion. However, Stalin’s figure, even after his partial rehabilitation in the official discourse, history textbooks, and movies, seemed too problematic to be chosen as the key historical symbol of post-Soviet Russia.2 Instead, it was World War II that became central to the new “history politics” (or, to use a term that is probably more familiar to historians in other countries, the new “memory politics”).3
    The Second World War had strongly marked Soviet society. Some historians consider it as the formative experience that forged the collective identity of the Soviet people. In the 1970s, the mythology of the war was cultivated by Leonid Brezhnev’s administration. Its promotion to the role of the nation’s foundational myth under Putin was thus well prepared.4

    • Troll: FB
    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  168. @Avery

    I managed to do it myself, but with mental deviants like you on the loose, it’s not very hard to come to the right conclusion.

  169. Cyrano says:
    @Ivan

    You know how they used to call the katyusha rocket launchers in WW2? They called them Stalin’s organs.
    You know how they called the body parts which the Red Army soldiers used to violate the German women? Stalin’s organs. From what I hear the freuleins were playing those instruments like real virtuosos.
    Too bad you mother never had the chance to play the same instrument – Stalin’s organ – if she did; you wouldn’t have turned out to be quite the degenerate that you are now.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Cyrano
  170. FB says:
    @Avery

    Please show a little consideration to our bovine friend…his condition is no laughing matter…

    • Replies: @Avery
  171. EugeneGur says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    What does one thing have to do with the other? The Germans aren’t blamed for whatever the Soviet government did to its subjects but for their own action, for which they can and should be blamed.

    We have many issues with the conduct of our government during the war, and hardly any action hasn’t been questioned, and they should be questioned. However, the fact remains: Germany attacked Russia, Germany killed our people, Germany burned them alive, hanged them, starved them – you get the drift – this is their crime and their responsibility. Whether Stalin, Zhukov or anyone else in the Soviet elite was right or wrong to make this or that decision is secondary to that fundamental truth.

  172. EugeneGur says:
    @L.K

    These trolls exhibit a level of idiocy, chauvinism, malice, and a capacity to lie that reminds me of the zionist troll brigade at work here at unz and elsewhere.

    The use of such language in an argument is a mark of a person who is interested in anything but the truth. Everyone who disagrees with you is either an idiot, a troll, or a chauvinist – you are the only genius on a shining hill of light.
    No wonder your choice of sources is so biased. You also forget one thing: we the Russians know many things from the first-hand experience including those related to the war. We don’t need Nikolai Tolstoy to tell us what the war was like. So, we aren’t as easily brainwashed as you are.

    • Replies: @L.K
  173. peterAUS says:

    Quotes from a couple of articles found by “Oligarchs vs people”:

    Russia’s richest have unleashed a swarm of lobbyists, consultants, and lawyers upon Washington, D.C., in recent months to help avert a looming threat to the estimated $1 trillion pile of riches they’ve stashed away outside Russia.
    The cause for the open checkbooks? A list of names. Or more accurately, a document with a cinematic nickname: “The Kremlin Report.”

    And Russia’s billionaire set is staging a collective freak-out.

    ….those who find their name in its pages have reason to fear they will become instantly radioactive in the elite upper reaches of Western financial institutions, effectively putting a big crimp in their extravagant lifestyles and limiting their ability to exploit their own astronomical wealth, experts said.

    One clear indication of the mounting panic, said Fried and others familiar with the report, is the extent to which Russia’s most prominent oligarchs have opened up their purses with the hope of keeping their names out of it.

    “There’s a tremendous lobbying campaign,” Fried said. “I have reason to believe that there have been offers of rather a large amount of money… to keep them off the list.”…..

    Fueling the freak-out is the tremendous, mind-boggling wealth that Russia’s richest have pulled together and which could come to be seen as tainted once the report comes out. Much of that money has already left Russia and is now widely dispersed throughout the world’s financial system.

    “I think certain people will be off-boarded by their financial institutions; I think that’s almost inevitable,” said Ferrari, founder of Ferrari & Associates, of a boutique sanctions-focused law firm.

    Rich Russians hold about $1 trillion outside of the country, according to a recent academic paper that put the figure at about 75 percent of Russia’s national income, or three times the size of the country’s total foreign reserves.

    “That is, there is as much financial wealth held by rich Russians abroad—in the United Kingdom, Switzerland, Cyprus, and similar offshore centers — as held by the entire Russian population in Russia itself,” concluded the paper, published by the Cambridge, Massachusetts-based National Bureau of Economic Research.

    The level of angst generated is a sign the list is having its desired effect, even before being published. “The purpose of sanctions is to change behavior,” says Fried. “To provide incentives to the Russian elite, as individuals, to keep their distance from Putin and incentives to them, as a class, that all would be better off if Putin weren’t starting wars with his neighbours or attacking the US or Europe through electoral shenanigans or disinformation.” So, people staying away from Putin or, in Fridman’s case, changing parts of his business strategy, is exactly what the US government wants.

    Interesting.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  174. Based on what The Saker described as the forces arrayed in opposition to President Putin, it is a miracle that he has held onto his office as long as he had. As a result, one can only conclude one of two things from such a description…

    1…
    The Saker has overrated such opposition, for if it was as formidable as described no one in power anywhere would be able to survive the power such a group could bring to bare on its political opponents.

    2…
    The Saker may in fact be correct in his description of these forces but there are so many mitigating circumstances to these forces wielding their power against President Putin that in effect they have been successfully neutered. Such a mitigating circumstance would be for example the support of the populace for President Putin.

  175. Aedib says:

    “To provide incentives to the Russian elite, as individuals, to keep their distance from Putin and incentives to them, as a class, that all would be better off if Putin weren’t starting wars with his neighbours or attacking the US or Europe through electoral shenanigans or disinformation.”

    By threatening to expropriate Russian assents in the West a la Chavez & Maduro, the USA establishment is in fact incentivizing the repatriation of these assents and pushing the Westernphile elite to go asking Putin for forgiveness and protection. So, Saker is right.
    I just can see a “Maduro-style” strategic thinking from US elites. They are harvesting results opposite to the expected ones but they are going on. LOL

  176. Cyrano says:
    @Cyrano

    I am really not proud of this comment, but that idiot pissed me off. Calling Stalin supporters or fans faggots, while the whole fabric of the western society is disintegrating because of overblown concerns over the rights of every deviant in the book. Which system approves more of “faggots” – communism, or the western phonies – who do that to cover up their careless attitudes towards other more important issues.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  177. L.K says:
    @EugeneGur

    Your silly replies to me and beefcake are nothing more than sophistry, omissions and outright lies.

    As to your and others here saying Germany struck first…

    It just so happens that I’ve been in several street scraps in which I struck the first blow. Does that mean that in those cases I was always the aggressor? In fact I can say that in most cases I was justified in striking first & that I made the right decisions in doing so.
    An objective party would look at each case and the circumstances that led to each brawl. It’s not true that just bc somebody strikes the first blow he is solely responsible for the fight. Same is true for war.

    So, why did Germany strike the USSR in June 1941? We need to know the history of what happened in the East after the signing of the German-Soviet Non-Aggression Treaty of 23 August 1939.
    W.N.Sanning summarizes it well:

    “The German-Soviet Non-Aggression Treaty of 23 August 1939 provided for the following territorial divisions: Estonia and Latvia would fall into the Soviet sphere of influence while Lithuania would fall into the German. From Lithuania the line of demarcation would run toward East Prussia, from there along the Narew, Vistula, and San rivers toward the Carpathian mountains. After the Polish defeat, the Soviet government immediately exerted heavy pressure on Germany for a revision of the treaty. In order to maintain peace, Hitler agreed in the second treaty, the so-called Border and Friendship Agreement of 28 September 1939, that Germany would relinquish its interest in most(but not all) of Lithuania in exchange for the area between the Vistula and the Bug [...]. While Germany was engaged in the Western Campaign from 10 May until 24 June, 1940, the Soviet Union occupied the entirety of Lithuania between 16 and 22 June following the ultimatum of 15 June – that is, including even that portion which was to remain within the German sphere of interest according to the treaty. This occupation constituted not only a gross violation of the two Soviet-German treaties but also of the Soviet-Lithuanian Treaty of Mutual Assistance (10 October 1939). The German government was neither consulted nor informed of this Soviet action as required under the treaty provisions. The northern Bukovina region of Rumania, which was outside the agreed-upon Soviet sphere of interest, was similarly appropriated by the Soviets, although in this case the Soviets pressured Germany into giving its “consent” within an ultimative time period of 24 hours before occupation. I mention these developments only because they demonstrate the determination with which Russia removed German strategic advantages while improving her own. They also show that Germany had no definite military objectives against the Soviet Union because otherwise it is inconceivable that she would have tolerated Soviet usurpation of the strategically invaluable Lithuanian gateway to Leningrad and Moscow.”

    Much more happened after the above described facts, culminating with Molotov’s extortionist demands list in November 1940, Berlin, from which point things really deteriorated and led to war.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @AnonFromTN
  178. @Sergey Krieger

    Every single opportunity must be used to undermine remaining pillars of USA might namely her currency status and international financial system

    John Helmer wrote about this on his Dancing With Bears blog: The Mnuchin Racket – US Treasury Bluff On Sanctions Against Russian Sovereign Debt

    He thinks the Trump administration scored a potentially fatal own goal with this latest blunder.

  179. bluedog says:
    @peterAUS

    Hmm I wonder how many trillion our elite have tucked away in off-shore havens,not that we will ever hear or see a list about it ,but it would be interesting to see…

    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  180. FB says:
    @L.K

    You are clearly a dolt if you think you are fooling anyone with your discredited references…

    WN Sanning is an obscure so-called author whose fanboy base is at Stormfront…where btw the big hate-on is against ‘Stalinism’…[along with Jews and blacks of course...]

    Sanning’s tinfoil hat theory is that Stalin murdered 600,000 Jews…

    The Institute for Historical Review…which at least tries to keep up a facade of credibility unlike the Stormfront loonies like yourself… has an article up on its site where Sanning’s book The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry is critiqued by by an Australian historian and professor…

    ‘…Sanning’s thesis is that there were many fewer Jews in Europe in 1939, and many more in Europe (or ex-European Jews elsewhere) in 1945 than previous historians have maintained, and that any decrease in European Jewish numbers between 1939 and 1945 was due to a continuation of previous unfavorable demographic patterns, emigration, ‘normal’ wartime losses, and one new factor not found in previous works of this type, the mass murder of Jews by Stalin.

    Sanning claims that Stalin murdered at least 600,000 former Polish Jews (p. 106). Sanning denies that a Nazi Holocaust occurred, in common with other neo-Nazi writers…’

    Let’s repeat here…

    ‘…and one new factor not found in previous works of this type, the mass murder of Jews by Stalin…’

    In other words…this nutjob is making stuff up from whole cloth…

    So listen up turd…citing morons like Sanning makes you just another micropenis neo-Nazi…

    But just to thoroughly debunk your idiotic narrative of Hitler ‘punching first’…[I'd like to see you actually try that with a real man...anyone who sits anonymously on a chat room and talks big talk of getting in fights is an obvious retard to begin with]…

    …Sanning’s conclusion about Soviet action in Lithuania vis a vis the non-aggression pact…is clearly an opinion…nothing more…

    ‘…They also show that Germany had no definite military objectives against the Soviet Union because otherwise it is inconceivable that she would have tolerated Soviet usurpation of the strategically invaluable Lithuanian gateway to Leningrad and Moscow…’

    Inconceivable…?

    To whom…?

    This is called speculation not scholarship…

    And I hate to even dignify a micropenis neo-Nazi like yourself with an actual argument…but how does Sanning explain Lebensraum…and Generalplan Ost…?

    ‘…The Generalplan Ost (German pronunciation: [ɡenəˈʁaːlˌplaːn ˈɔst]; English: Master Plan for the East), abbreviated GPO, was the German government’s plan for the genocide and ethnic cleansing on a vast scale,[1] and colonization of Central and Eastern Europe by Germans.[2]

    It was to be undertaken in territories occupied by Germany during World War II.[1] The plan was partially realized during the war, resulting indirectly and directly in a very large number of deaths, but its full implementation was not considered practicable during the major military operations, and was prevented by Germany’s defeat.

    The plan entailed the enslavement, expulsion, and mass murder of most Slavic peoples in Europe along with planned destruction of their nations, whom the ‘Aryan’ Nazis viewed as racially inferior…’

    Yeah I know…an illiterate like yourself will laugh this off as being sourced from wikipedia…but the fact is that these are known historical facts supported by vast literature of genuine scholarship…

    Like this one…from a distinguished German professor…

    [And there is a good reason that you Stormfront whackos don't get to have your say in wikipedia...it is an argument-based medium and you whackjobs can't make a case for your nonsense...so it doesn't get in...]

    The Nazi bestiality and slaughter of Slavic civilians all across Europe is a well-known historical fact which many real folks still remember from personal experience of this war of aggression by your micropenis idol Hitler…

    You are not fooling anyone by quoting laughingstocks like Sanning…and you are shitting on graves of those real people butchered by your micropenis Fuhrer…

    I know your type well…you are what we call a hater…your hate is directed at Russians and particularly Stalin because he destroyed your nutjob ‘Aryan’ project…

    Besides that…your type is both mentally and physically weak in my experience…mostly semi-literate and working at menial jobs…and often accompanied by an inferiority complex related to physical and intellectual shortcomings…

    Your frustration to make anything worthwhile of yourself is released by means of racial hate…a sickness in itself…

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @L.K
    , @L.K
  181. peterAUS says:
    @bluedog

    A very good point, actually.

    Fear not.
    Russia will release that list and, in fact, fully retaliate in the same manner.
    Like in old days of “you got our spies out we get your spies out”.

    Can’t wait.

  182. @FB

    I was wondering when Generalplan Ost fantasies were going to appear.

    • Troll: FB, polskijoe
    • Replies: @FB
    , @L.K
  183. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @L.K

    Anon from TN.
    I admire your logic. Never read anything quite like it. Please give your explanation how the Munich Agreement of 1938, where France and Britain essentially threw Czechoslovakia under the Hitler’s bus, provoked peace-loving Germany into attacking and occupying Benilux countries, then France and Denmark, then mass bombing Britain, etc. I love alternative history, especially the fairytale variety.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @FB
  184. @AnonFromTN

    Britain initiated the terror bombing of civilian centers in Germany, you ignoramus. This is part of the historical record, not even establishment historians dispute it.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @AnonFromTN
  185. FB says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    My apologies to all bovines for the comparison I made in my # 179…

    It was unfair to compare a plankton like yourself to the noble farm animal which name you have appropriated quite illegitimately…

    For those with an actual brain here…you may note the map at my # 189 is labeled clearly in German…

    ‘…Ergantzte Karte: “Generalplan Ost” des Institutes fur Agrarwesen und Agrarpolitik der Friedrich-Wilhelms Universitat (Berlin) vom Mai, 1942…”

    For those Stormfronters who don’t even know German that is translated as…

    ‘…Map: “Generalplan Ost”of the Institute of Agricultural Policy of the Friedrich-Wilhelms University (Berlin) of May, 1942…’

    Some ‘fantasy’…

    You’ve got a long way to go to even begin to approach the level of bovine intellect…

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  186. FB says:
    @AnonFromTN

    There is a quite simple explanation to our little ‘LK’ and his ‘logic’…

  187. L.K says:
    @FB

    Can’t refute the message, kill the messenger instead.

    Everything Sanning said in that statement can be found in “serious” historians works, there is nothing really secret about it, you are just trolling… as usual.

    As for the Jews, you are distorting Sanning, no surprise there either, you are a dishonest cunt…

    What Sanning shows is that many Jewish sources, during and after the war spoke of the mass deportation of 100s of thousands of Polish Jews into the Soviet interior in 1940( and later):

    The Polish Government-in-Exile, too, declared the Soviets deported 600,000 Jewish refugees from western Poland in the spring of 1940.
    The Jewish statistician, J. Kulischer, asserted that Stalin evacuated 530,000 Jews – 500,000 from eastern Poland and 30,000 from the Baltic countries.17

    The Universal reported that the Joint Distribution Committee – a large international Jewish refugee aid organization – initiated a relief program in early 1942 for 600,000 Polish-Jewish refugees in Asiatic Russia.19 …

    In connection with the inhuman transport to the east, the Joint Distribution Committee wrote in its Bulletin of June 1943:20 “From a fifth to a third of the number of refugees died […] whoever did not see the thousands of graves, mostly of children, cannot understand.”

    Obviously the Soviets were not interested in discussing any of this, since they had an interest to ascribe all excess deaths of Jews, or any Soviet nationals for that matter, that occurred during WWII, to the Germans.

    Currently, organized Jewry itself has no interest in talking about it either, given that it greatly weakens the fraudulent tales of NS extermination of Polish Jews.

  188. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I was wondering when Generalplan Ost fantasies were going to appear.

    Yep, didn’t take long now, did it?

    There are several versions of Generalplan Ost in planning stages & the one these cunts keep talking about, the one that allegedly proposed the resettlement of over 30 million Soviet inhabitants over a 30 year period to Western Siberia to make room for German settlement, does not exist, has NEVER been found.

    So we have an alleged proposal – actually we do not -, for which there is no documentary evidence and with ZERO evidence that it was ever approved at all!

    These people are clowns without the makeup and costumes…

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  189. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Anon from TN
    What did Benilux countries, France, and Denmark initiate then, or enlightened one?

  190. Avery says:
    @FB

    After watching that video, I now feel really bad: maybe I have been too harsh towards the bovine poster. Maybe I should show a little consideration, a little mercy……..after all, he is just a ruminant, you know, a beefsteak: just enough brain cells to know which grass to eat, and put on more marbled steak.

  191. @L.K

    Yes. Obviously the Germans anticipated territorial gains and drew up plans accordingly. And to be sure, the Germans did commit excesses against the Slavic and Jewish populations in the SU. But the idea that these constituted some kind of extermination plan is ludicrous.

    • Agree: L.K
  192. L.K says:
    @FB

    The official comic book style, Roger Rabitt narrative re the Soviet-German clash during WWII does not have a leg to stand on.
    This is the reason behind Russia’s new legislation against ‘revising’ WWII history.
    The truth does not need to be shielded from scrutiny.

    Also most Soviet archives of the era remain sealed.
    Why? What is the Russian government hiding? A lot. As Rezun points out, many hundreds of thousands of top secret documents remain sealed.

    The Anglo-American version of the war is also a tissue of lies.

    Before the new wave of repression against free historical inquiry in Russia began to materialize, eventually resulting in the Orwellian ‘memory law’ passed by the Duma, there was a window of time after the fall of the S.U which saw a partial opening of the archives and the rise of the new Russian historians, who began to look more critically at the Stalin regime’s responsibility for bringing about the clash with Germany and the war itself.

    But even before that, the first to realize the official Soviet line was pure nonsense were the Russians themselves. As D.W.Michaels wrote:

    One of the earliest Russian revisionists of World War II history was Pyotr Grigorenko, a Soviet Army Major General and highly decorated war veteran who taught at the Frunze Military Academy.[…]he was the first leading Soviet figure to advance the revisionist arguments, which became well known during the 1980s and 1990s, on Stalin’s preparations for aggressive war against Germany. In an article submitted to a major Soviet journal (but rejected, and later published abroad), Grigorenko pointed out that Soviet military forces vastly outnumbered German forces in 1941. Just prior to the German attack on June 22, 1941, more than half of the Soviet forces were in the area near and west of Bialystok, that is, in an area deep in Polish occupied territory. “This deployment could only be justified” wrote Grigorenko, “if these troops were deploying for a surprise offensive. In the event of an enemy attack these troops would soon be encircled.” Which is exactly what happened.

    Since the 1990s, with the partial opening of Soviet archives(closed again), many Russian historians have refined the evidence for Stalin’s aggressive aims. An incomplete list of such Russian historians/researchers include:
    Former Soviet intel officer , Vladimir Bogdanovich Rezun (Viktor Suvorow), Russian historian Dr. Mikhail Meltiukhov, V. A. Nevezhin, Colonel V. D. Danilov, Igor Bunich, Irina. V. Pavlova, V. L. Doroshenko, Boris Sokolov, B.N.Petrov, Vladimir Neveshin, M.Solonin, Constantine Pleshakov, Dr.Alexander Pronin, Prof. Dr. Maria Litowskaja, Colonel Kiselev, Dr. Dschangir Nadschafow, faculty director of the Institute of General History of the Russian Academy of Sciences, P. Bobylev, T. Bushueva, Y. Felshtinskiy
    , etc.

    Since the 1990s, many Western historians have reached similar conclusions.

  193. L.K says:

    As I said, many Russian historians reached that conclusion. P. 103 of “Unternehmen Barbarossa und der russische Historikerstreit”:

    - From the outset Stalin reckoned on a war with Germany, and the [Soviet] conquest of Germany. To this end, Stalin concentrated on the western border of the USSR operational offensive forces, which were five- to six-times stronger than the Wehrmacht with respect to tanks, aircraft and artillery.

    On p.105, Russian historian Pavlova summarizes that from an objective point of view, the preemptive character of Hitler’s attack on the Soviet Union cannot really be denied, given that it forestalled the massive & imminent Red Army offensive against Germany.

    Interesting what Russian historians I. V. Pavlova & V. L. Doroshenko had to say about WW2…

    …historians at Novosibirsk University undertook a major revisionist study of the immediate prewar situation. The results of this scholarly seminar were published in April 1995. Russian historian I. V. Pavlova, stated bluntly in her seminar contribution that for decades Communist Party historians worked to bury the background, origins and development of the Second World War, including Stalin’s August 1939 speech, under a mountain of lies.

    Well, Pavlova, court historians in Russia continue that tradition today, aided by repressive new legislation passed in Russia.

    “Another of the participating scholars, V. L. Doroshenko, said that the new evidence shows that “Stalin provoked and unleashed the Second World War.” Suggesting that Stalin and his regime should have been on trial at Nuremberg, Doroshenko went on explain:”

    … Not just because Stalin helped Hitler but because it was in Stalin’s own interests that the war begin. First, because of his general goal of seizing power in Europe, and, second, because of the immediate advantage of destroying Poland and taking over Galicia. But Stalin’s most important motive was the war itself … The collapse of the European order would have made it possible for him to establish his dictatorship [over all of Europe].

    To this end, Stalin wanted for the time being to stay out of the war, but only with the intention of entering it at the most favorable moment. In other words, the nonaggression pact freed Hitler’s hands and encouraged Germany to unleash a war [in Poland]. As Stalin signed the Pact, he was already determined to break it. Right from the outset he did not intend to stay out of the conflict but, to the contrary, to enter the war directly at the most advantageous moment.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  194. @L.K

    Here!
    I am going to make you feel much worst!!!!

    Hitler ordered German general staff to go and take Moscow.
    Than Hitler fell sick for more than a month.

    The arrogant German general staff divided the army at three streams Leningrad Moscow and Stalingrad. It did look bad under condition if nothing would go wrong.

    Serbian uprising shortened the schedule by one month. The plan would still work but than there were no roads in Russia, only compressed earth. Unusual constant rain changed roads to mud progress of the German army was so slow that objectives could not be achieved.

    The war was lost.
    But!!!!!
    If the generals would have listen to Hitler. They would secure Moscow.
    There was rail line from Moscow to Baku.
    Army would secure that line and secure Baku oilfield, Germans would won the WW2
    There is no slightest doubt about it!

    We had a neighbor who was in German Luftwaffe
    He said that there were thousand’s and thousand’s of planes that could not go of the ground because there was not enough fuel.

  195. This thread has declined in quality to a level below most of the contributors here and I don’t know enough about that war to contribute much of value other than to say that WWII was actually the second half of WWI. Hitler, Stalin, Churchill and the rest would easily have been substituted by others who would have filled those roles in a not dissimilar manner had things worked out that way.

    We know from the recent events in Iraq that decent young men from good families in such bucolic places as the American midwest can easily be corrupted to the point that they can become homicidal beasts in what they see as “service’ to a just but vicious cause. I assume that the young men of GB, the US, Germany, Japan and Russia did likewise in WWII after being conditioned to hate and to kill. Over 50 million needless deaths occurred in a short space of time. My father served under Monty and went to his grave believing the propaganda he was fed some 50 years earlier.

    The real object of scorn should be those banking and business ghouls who engineered that horror and are now preparing the US and Europe for more of the same. I think it’s hard to refute that the funding for the carnage enabled it to happen and that it was liberally doled out to all sides and that it was all by design from the very beginning.

  196. @NoseytheDuke

    Well? Go and have a discussions with those who are dead set to create an empire.
    start with PNAC.

  197. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Anon from TN
    Since you still did not answer my humble question, oh enlightened one, let me repeat it. What were the sins of Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, Denmark, as well as Finland and Norway, that forced peace-loving Hitler to attack and occupy all these countries? Reading you posts, I expect that their sins must have been very grave to provoke this attack from such a peaceful government Germany had at that time.
    I am sure Hitler did not get Nobel Peace prize only because it did not exist at the time. Otherwise Obama would have had a fitting company.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  198. RobinG says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    The real object of scorn should be those banking and business ghouls who engineered that horror and are now preparing the US and Europe for more of the same.

    So true, of course. It’s too bad none of the great minds of UR comment section have anything constructive to say about how to restructure the economy so it’s not totally dependent on militarism. (For that matter, none of the columnists, either.) The only thing that even comes close is the “Green New Deal” proposed by Jill Stein of the Green Party, but of course that would be slashed here as socialist/leftist/fascist/etc./etc.

  199. FB says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Nosey…I appreciate your words of moderation…

    Your comment while commendable…is too general to be of much use…here’s what I mean…yes ordinary folks can be turned into beasts by means of hate promotion…which you yourself pointed out…and even gave a first-hand example from family history…

    I also agree strongly that the Capitalist banker and financial class are to blame for the huge problems the ordinary folks of this world are now suffering…these are parasites that literally suck the lifeblood of ordinary working people to enrich themselves obscenely… and thereby acquire ever more power…which they use to gain ever more control over the lives of ordinary folks…

    However…the main problem here is the hate promotion…

    This is what we are dealing with here…the neo-Nazis posting total revisionist garbage here are driven purely by hate

    I have firsthand experience with these people…and they are exactly as I described them…generally poorly educated and thus relegated to relatively low socio-economic status…and all the frustration that goes with that…

    The only ‘card’ they have is their ‘whiteness’…so we find many in this socio-economic category being attracted to ideas about racial superiority and neo-Nazi ideologies…

    Here is my firsthand experience with these folks…you may recall I warned you about Israel Shamir…

    I did so because I happened to be involved in a correspondence circle of which he was a part…and which consisted mainly of Jewish intellectuals who were staunchly anti-Zionist…and even radically anti-Israel…and even anti-Jewish…

    Yes that is true…there are Jewish intellectuals who not only repudiate Zionism…the state of Israel and acknowledge its colonialist and criminal behavior…but also repudiate the entire notion of Judaism…

    Now here is my story and how it involves Shamir and various neo-Nazis along the lines of ‘LK’ and ‘Beefcake’…

    Shamir and this circle of anti-Zionist Jewish intellectuals…one of whom was a distinguished academic in the hard sciences…and a close personal friend of mine…had a habit of collecting these neo-Nazi types because they had common cause in their crusade against Israel and Zionism…

    Shamir in particular had a large following of neo-Nazi types whom he actively cultivated as ‘proteges’ and defended their ridiculous historical revisionism…my friend the academic likewise had a similar neo-Nazi following which he indulged because he felt that they had a message worth hearing…and he himself kept an open mind about the ‘official’ Holocaust narrative…[in fact he doubted some aspects of the official narrative himself...even though he had relatives that perished in the death camps]…

    As a rational man of science…I understand his perspective to give even the lunatic fringe voices a hearing and due consideration…

    But I will tell you this…my trusted friend came to doubt Shamir’s honesty and commitment to the Palestinian cause…he had caught Shamir in too many deceptions…

    So much for Shamir…that is why I consider him a man whose true motives cannot be trusted…

    As for the neo-Nazis…their behavior towards the Jewish intellectuals in the group was simply abominable…

    Incredibly…my friend tolerated this to such an extent that I could not believe his capacity to brush off the most crude kind of personal insults from these vermin…

    But he would always say that he understands that they come from a somewhat ‘crude’ background and cannot be expected to act in a ‘refined’ manner…

    Long story short…I have ample past experience with this kind of crowd as you can see…

    Truth is important…

    I respect your statement that you are not personally in a position to evaluate precisely all the details under discussion of a subject like WW2…

    That is the correct position to take for anyone who is not a bona fide historical scholar of the subject…

    I do not fall into that category either…

    However…we can rely upon the vast preponderance of scholarship on the subject to at least extract some basic truths…

    For example…we can quite confidently state that Hitler initiated a war of aggression…

    And that the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union with the goal of genocide and colonialism as per the Lebensraum doctrine…which btw predated Hitler…the Germans had long looked to the East…ie ‘Drang nach Osten’…which dates back to the 19′th century…

    We can state these facts as clearly as we can state that Hitler invasion of France and the Benelux countries was pure and unmitigated aggression…the ultimate war crime…

    We can also state with certain confidence that the Nazis conducted an industrial-scale genocide…mostly of Jews…but also of Slavs and other peoples…

    We may quibble with the ‘official’ numbers…which may indeed be overstated…but there is no question that an extermination of Jews surely did happen…

    That is without question…and I say this as a non-Jew…

    These are basic facts about Nazi expansionism…the racist character of their ideology and their aggression against practically every European nation that was not allied with them…

    Again…we may quibble about various details…but the driving force of this was the aggressiveness of the Nazi regime…

    There is no question about that…trying to just blame the entire WW2 on bankers and money men is quite absurd and cannot be supported…

    So there is no way that I am going to tolerate these neo-Nazis here spreading their ugliness without challenging it…

    I know many many folks of both Slavic and Jewish origin who have lost many family to the Nazi genocide…

    I have had occasion to travel and work in Europe extensively…and have even spoken directly to survivors of the Nazi genocide in eastern Europe…at the time…during the 1980s these people were still relatively young and articulate…having survived as children under the most unbelievably inhuman circumstances…

    Hearing this firsthand gives a whole new perspective on this history…it puts a human face to it…

    These neo-Nazis here are crying crocodile tears about Red Army soldiers raping German women…

    Of course this did happen…but they try to deny all the other facts of Nazi aggression that led up to this…

    ‘…War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world.

    To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole…’

    …International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg…

    The ugliness of the neo-Nazis here is on full display…as is their ignorance…

    For those like yourself…who hesitate to condemn these vile idiots…this is exactly what they are trying to accomplish…

    But I tell you Nosey…the real folks who suffered and died under Nazi aggression…innocent men, old folks, women, and children…and especially those who survived to tell about it…

    Well…they certainly deserve better than to have these assholes shit all over the truth and history..

    • Agree: Cyrano
    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @polskijoe
  200. L.K says:
    @RobinG

    “UR comment section have anything constructive to say about how to restructure the economy so it’s not totally dependent on militarism. (For that matter, none of the columnists, either.”

    Michael Hudson has, he is one of the few American economists worth reading… though his pieces/interviews are merely reproduced here I guess.

    Unfortunately, the free trade/market/right wing types usually pop up in the comment section to merely troll Hudson as a “Communist”…

    • Agree: FB
  201. MEexpert says:

    US does not need congress to approve sanctions on the Russians. The US can force various agencies to punish the Russians. As an example the ban on the Russian Olympic athletes. Even after the Court of Arbitration for Sports (CAS) has cleared the Russian athletes the International Olympic Committee (IOC) will not rule in time for those athletes to walk in the opening ceremonies. IOC is only one example where the US wields its power. They can force any international agency to impose sanctions on any country that does not play ball with the US.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @peterAUS
  202. peterAUS says:
    @RobinG

    It’s too bad none of the great minds of UR comment section have anything constructive to say about how to restructure the economy …..

    Plenty of theories around for those willing to research the topic.

    The problem is…..each and every one of them has been dissected and rejected by, apparently, knowledgeable people.

    Or, in practice, apparently a knowledgeable person comes up with a feasible vision, idea, solution…whatever. Publishes a paper, even writes a book.
    And, then, hundreds of similar persons debunk all that.

    So…if those versed in a topic can’t come up with something….we, commoners, can’t either.

    Which brings back the simple conclusion: there is no practical solution to that problem.

    Anyway, you are welcome to come up with your own idea, publish it somewhere and see what happens.

  203. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    We are seeing two murderous great fighter nations who conspired how to invade, kill innocents and split their spoils of Europe, then fought spectacularly among themselves like greatest enemy over the spoils in WWII, now to vehemently mutual attack in justifying who is more ethical and human in their genocidal wars against each other.

    We aren’t responsible for these historical wars committed by these psychopaths, nor need to justify for either of them, Hitler or Stalin. But we are certainly responsible for the peace now and in future.

    Hatred begets hatred, only love alone is hatred appeased.

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
    , @FB
  204. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @MEexpert

    They can force any international agency to impose sanctions on any country that does not play ball with the US.

    That’s right. They can also force any countries leader to impose sanction on any country that doesn’t toe US line. This is US hard power.

  205. polskijoe says:
    @FB

    Im not a Commie or Jew,
    but certainly you have a point.

    They have no intention to change their views, especially the ones who regularly visit those sites.
    There are dozens of reasons why the deny the crimes. (Denial, Psychology, Hatred, etc)

    Some of them refuse to accept that Nazi Germany was the aggressor, and did many awful mistakes.
    Neonazis are a weird tiny movement, which wants to target young people to join their causes for various reasons.

    Certainly there is far more evidence for Holocaust of 17 million (i find it funny they are still talking about 6 or 11 million) or so, than “no Holocaust”, or “little victims”.

    No one asked the Germans to invade other countries. It wasnt the Jews, the Russians, the Americans, the Poles, the Brits, or anyone. It was German Nazis lunatic imperialism.

    They lost their “best” men and now what Germany has become.
    What a waste of a war.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  206. @RobinG

    I doubt that Jill Stein could order coffee without being leftist and socialist about it.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  207. peterAUS says:
    @MEexpert

    Informative.
    Keep them coming, please.

  208. @AnonFromTN

    I answered the relevant claim you made, about Germany starting the bombing of British cities. Since you haven’t offered a counter-claim, I take that as acknowledgement of your error. The rest of what you say is asinine, like yourself, and not worth the effort.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  209. RobinG says:
    @Twodees Partain

    You wrote

    Mine [personal agenda] is to have a good time reading and posting comments.

    So, the misery of other people and the “common good (or decline) of the nation” are only sources of entertainment for you. Sad. (And you sure do enjoy your entertainment.)

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  210. Cyrano says:
    @polskijoe

    Listen to this logic, my friend: First the Nazi baboons claimed that they are racially superior to the Slavs.

    Then the Red Army showed them the error of their ways in 1945 – and we won’t even go into my favorite way of describing how the Red Army was actually the superior one judged by their amorous successes with the German women – who learned to appreciate real men in a hurry, instead of the Nazi garbage they had to contend with until then.

    Now the neo-Nazis claim that Communism and Nazism were moral equivalents – equally evil, which doesn’t involve any brain activity when reaching such a conclusion.

    Then if (from a neo-Nazis) perspective you deny that the Nazis ever committed any atrocities – who are left standing as the only evil ones in WW2? Communists of course. The Nazis were just great misunderstood humanitarians. But as they say, why dwell on things that happened so many Sieg Heils ago.

  211. @Anon

    “We are seeing two murderous great fighter nations who conspired how to invade, kill innocents
    and split their spoils of Europe, then fought spectacularly among themselves like greatest enemy
    over the spoils in WWII …. ”

    Nice effort.

    However, it omits one very significant fact: Great Britain and France declared war on Germany when it invaded Poland in 1939, They did nothing similar to Soviet Union when it, a month or so later, entered Poland, too.

    On the contrary, Great Britain and USA (and France) later allied themselves with the Soviets against Nazi Germany. Obviously, their leaders at the time, clearly differentiated between Soviet Union and Nazi Germany and knew very well where the true evil lies.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Anon
  212. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Anon from TN
    Yea, right, the RAF started bombing Germany in March of 1940. In sharp contrast, Germany did not do anything untoward: there was no occupation of Czechoslovakia or Poland before that. Tell me more, I love fairy tales.
    Overall your response was exactly as expected: when people don’t have arguments, they assault their opponents. Thanks for acknowledging the fact so openly.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  213. Avery says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    {The real object of scorn should be those banking and business ghouls who engineered that horror…}

    Conflating everything and blaming WW2 on some amorphous 3rd parties is an attempt to whitewash. European powers at the time – France and England – accepted Hitler’s annexation of Austria and the annexation of part of Czechoslovakia (Munich Agreement). Nobody _forced_ Hitler to then start invading other European countries. Nobody _forced_ Hitler to invade USSR.

    {I assume that the young men of GB, the US, Germany, Japan and Russia did likewise in WWII after being conditioned to hate and to kill.}

    Don’t know about the others, but young and not so young men in Soviet Union did not need conditioning to develop a healthy desire to kill invading savages of their homeland who raped then murdered their womenfolk, massacred their people, wiped out entire villages, starved e.g. residents of Leningrad to death, who burned and destroyed everything…… I don’t need conditioning to do whatever I have to do if someone breaks into my house with the idea to harm my family: it comes naturally.

    As to the alleged conditioning of Soviet men in the Red Army (overwhelmingly Slavic peoples) to ‘hate and kill’ : the worst they are accused of doing is “mass rapes” of German women. Don’t know what the real numbers are, but I am sure there were many rapes: part of the ugly underside in every war. However, given what Nazi invaders had done in Soviet Union during their 3-4 years of rein of terror there, the restraint Red Army troops showed in Germany was remarkable. In 1945 Nazis were reduced to sending little boys and grandpas to face the Red Army steamroller. If Nazis had won in the East, not a single Slav would have been left alive West of the Urals: people in SU saw what Nazis did and knew very well what Nazis planned to do if victorious. The Red Army could have leveled Germany and killed everyone: nobody could stop them.

    Remember: German’s Anglo-Saxon kin (Americans and Brits) cooked alive up to 100,000 German civilians – old men, women, children – at the deliberate firebombing of Dresden for Hitler daring to bomb London and kill British civilians. Stalin could have pulled a hundred Dresdens: who was going to stop him?

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @RobinG
  214. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Simpleguest

    Anon from TN
    Moral judgment never played any role in realpolitik. The leaders of the UK and USA did not give a hoot about good or evil back then, just like they don’t care about these things now. They allied themselves with the USSR simply because they were more afraid of Germany at the time. They started the cold war against the USSR because after the defeat of Germany and Japan they were more afraid of the USSR than of anybody else. They are making anti-Russian and anti-Chinese noises now because they are afraid of those two countries that flatly refuse to toe the US line. They don’t start the war, though, because deep down they understand that this war would be the end of them.

  215. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Simpleguest

    I read that Us & UK were thinking Germany Nazis was good to counter SU communist at beginning so they connived its aggression. But not when Germany become too powerful and threaten them.

    Anon from TN has best answer you. War mongers never consider moral values. US & UK, France, are Ace in committing immoral atrocities in long history, till this moment.

    If US, UK, France, SU didn’t allied up to attack Germany at all fronts, with Japan failed to honor its own proposed promise to attack SU, Germany could emerge as Victor or at least a truce been called, and history will be very different.

    Victor writes history, not loser. US participation, and SU was the main factor that overstretched Germany force.

    Again, once WW2 ended, SU immediately become US & UK target. When SU disintegrated, Russia and China are their targets now. How many innocents have US UK massacred after WWII?

    So who is real evil? Give USUK a count of wars.

  216. @RobinG

    Funny that you’d clip a line from one response and quote it as a reply to another, but; Yes, that’s my personal agenda for commenting here. That doesn’t mean that the misery of others and the decline of the nation is a source of entertainment for me. What a bizarre notion.

    I participate here for the reason I stated. If your agenda for posting here is to advance a social or political agenda, then you’re wasting your time. That isn’t going to happen. You’re certainly taking your little ol’ self seriously, ain’t you? There’s no need for that. Really, you are not that big a deal.

  217. @AnonFromTN

    What assault? You cannot distinguish between the bombing of legitimate military targets vs the bombing of civilian centers far behind the front lines. Nor can you keep track of who declared war on whom. You are an ignoramus, it is simply an objective statement of observation.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  218. RobinG says:
    @Avery

    Excellent response, Avery, but what about now? Do you reject that there are banking and business ghouls driving the manufacture, sale, and use of more and more weapons? And do you give no credence to the opinion that WWII was a continuation of WWI, and that those ‘enablers’ encouraged and profited from all of it? I don’t disagree with a word you wrote, but as usual I posit that a symphony of forces conspire to achieve these conflagrations.

    GeoKat (via Mearsheimer and Walt) asserts that Iraq would not have been invaded in 2003 without the Israel Lobby pressure. Would WWI have been inevitable w/o the arms merchants stoking the fires? (I’m not asserting, just asking.)

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @polskijoe
  219. FB says:
    @Anon

    ‘…We aren’t responsible for these historical wars committed by these psychopaths, nor need to justify for either of them, Hitler or Stalin. But we are certainly responsible for the peace now and in future…’

    While the call to peace in our time sounds noble and nice…this kind of statement is empty and worthless…

    In fact it is dangerous and counterproductive because it says in essence…‘history doesn’t mean anything…’

    This is dangerous because we already have a huge problem with buried historical truths…

    Just in the US…this includes the genocide of the native Americans by European colonialists…

    How often do you hear about this…?

    It is not taught in schools and this memory of centuries of suffering and extermination of these peoples is not honored nor commemorated in any way…

    In fact just the opposite…’Indians’ are still the object of bigotry, hatred and even state violence…

    The same is true of the US aggression against Mexico and the seizing of what is today the entire Southwest US…

    The Spanish had settled and owned this area for centuries…but like the native Americans their land was simply stolen by force of arms…

    And to again add insult to injury…the Hispanic populations left poor and dispossessed [even the previously wealthy] were quickly relegated to second class status…and remain so to this day…

    Bigotry against ‘Spics’ is just as rampant as racism against African Americans…and I won’t even go into their sorry tale…

    This is what happens when history is buried alive…we have the truth turned on its head…and now these victims are the bad guys…

    In the case of WW2…the US has long been burying the history of that conflict because it quickly turned against its former ally the Russians…

    Today it is a case of total burial of historical memory of WW2 in the US education system, media and commentariat…

    Many here many be familiar with Paul Criag Roberts who is a bona fide American Patriot of the highest order…

    But being patriotic also means respecting truth…above all else…

    Dr. Roberts has addressed the question of WW2 historical revisionism in the US on many occasions…here is just one…

    ‘…I pointed out the fact, well known to historians and educated people, that the Red Army defeated Nazi Germany long before the US was able to get geared up to participate in the war.

    The Normandy invasion most certainly did not defeat Nazi Germany. What the Normandy invasion did was to prevent the Red Army from overrunning all of Europe…’

    As for Stalin and Hitler…the idea of drawing moral equivalence between the two is historically insulting and wrong…

    The Nazis under Hitler were the aggressors and they got beat by Russia and Stalin…that is the long and short of it…

    Statements like y0urs only serve to muddy the waters on important historical questions that need clarity…not more bafflegab…

    PS: there are too many ‘anons’ here…

    I am generally reluctant to even respond to anonymous comments here and I’m sure many others feel the same way…it is confusing to keep track fo who said what when you have a half dozen ‘anons’ all going in different directions…

    This is a great website and I commend Mr. Unz for pulling together a truly diverse spectrum of opinion that covers pretty much all possible alternative voices…[I would like to see something from the terrific Black Agenda Report...which has some great writers that should be more widely heard...]

    But how much effort does it take to come up with a pseudonym here…a real email is not even required…

    Something to consider perhaps for the people who run this site…I’m sure it would be appreciated…

    • Replies: @Anon
  220. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Anon from TN
    So the fact that Hitler, having been given Sudetenland (a term specifically coined for the occasion) by Munich Agreement, had grabbed the whole of Czechoslovakia (and installed two puppet governments in its two parts) was a totally innocent peaceful move. Apparently, Hitler attacked and occupied Poland also peacefully, whereas Britain and France, which declared war on Germany in keeping with their treaties with Poland (but did nothing whatsoever: The Phony War) were aggressors? I have no more questions for you, thank you very much. Discussing anything with you substantively is like having a heart-to-heart conversation with a lamppost.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  221. Avery says:
    @RobinG

    {Do you reject that there are banking and business ghouls driving the manufacture, sale, and use of more and more weapons? }

    Of course not.
    I see it everyday here in the US: Pentagon keeps wasting untold $ billions on shiny new useless weapons, while our infrastructure crumbles.

    I don’t dispute that evil men and women stir up trouble, and then profit from it.
    But the final act is that of people who actually order men to go and kill others.
    Without that order, nothing happens.

    {asserts that Iraq would not have been invaded in 2003 without the Israel Lobby pressure.}

    My view is that Israel lobby was one of the actors, but not the only one.
    I remember the Pearls, Wolfowitzes, et. al. painting a rosy picture of it being a cakewalk, being greeted with flowers,…..
    But I also remember Pres Bush (not a Jew), Veep Cheney (not a Jew), Rumsfeld (not a Jew),etc….itching to go to war. Man-child Bush wanted to be a “war-president”. Cheney had darker motives. The military brass wanted a safe little war to get wartime promotions, bigger budgets. I think the Israel lobby saw the opportunity, the opening and used it. But without POTUS, the Joint Chiefs, the Pentagon wanting war – it would not have happened.

    The same Israel lobby has been trying to get US to attack Iran for years.
    So far they have failed, because Pentagon is against it.

    { Would WWI have been inevitable w/o the arms merchants stoking the fires? (I’m not asserting, just asking.)}

    I don’t know.

  222. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    While the call to peace in our time sounds noble and nice…this kind of statement is empty and worthless…

    In fact it is dangerous and counterproductive because it says in essence…‘history doesn’t mean anything…’

    History does matter. In fact I defended against untruth propaganda staunchly if i have some direct facts. Using anonymous is problem, but when someone frequently speak out for Russia, like PaulCR, they call us Russia troll.

    When we share our views on China because of some direct knowledge, and live/work long in Asia, we become Chinese commy troll. Such Russophobe and sinophobe run deep inside anglo American here. Even some Russians are trigger happy calling Chinese comments troll.

    So far anonymous commentators are mostly ok here, except confusing when get too many even for myself.

    While i always enjoy reading your knowledgeable debates on facts, but not when everyone starting to abuse each other with anger. It degraded into senseless ww2.1.fight on keyboards. That’s reason i said we aren’t responsible for historical wars not started by us, and should sanely debate to propagate truth for peace.

    This is a great website and I commend Mr. Unz for pulling together a truly diverse spectrum of opinion that covers pretty much all possible alternative voices…

    China is becoming so important to the world now, yet people here hardly want to hear their views or see with prejudice and speak with contempt to discourage, which already have very few because of language barriers.

    Many topics in UNZ are useless gossiping, yet almost completely black out on important China topics that will shape our world for a long time. I would truly like to see more China topics and views exchanging than foolish Trump jokes or IQ, food…

    At least Russia has some good representatives here, with very good English and knowledge, that we can still hear their true views that is affecting the world now without tinted thru US prism..

    • Replies: @FB
  223. polskijoe says:
    @RobinG

    Again I refer users to the minds of the Round Table / Rhodes / Milner groups / Eastern Establishment
    Today some of them call themselves CFR and Chatham House.

    They loved profit, their ideas back then were slightly different (more Anglosaxon racial, than Anglophile of today). They also wanted a foment war. They trick everybody. But again it was Nazi Germany decision in the end and they did lots of evil.

    Rockefeller Foundation gave aid, Standard Oil, funding for eugenics
    Carnegie and Ford. Vehicles, and more.

    Later they switched and started to give Land Lease to Soviets.

    Truman (32-33 degree freemason) has a famous quote, that US will fund both sides so they slaughter each other. 40 million Europeans died, cities leveled to the ground, economy ruined in many parts.

    Im not blaming the US and UK for the war, rather they played a role and tricked people.
    The WW2 could have been smaller scale though.

  224. @AnonFromTN

    Apparently, Hitler attacked and occupied Poland also peacefully,

    Sorry! That is incorrect. Pollacks with their Jews did put up a good fight.
    Germans even had to use their air force.
    German Army did have slightly over 11 Thousand casualties, (dead)
    There is no number of injured German soldiers.
    Even Polish postmen were fighting the Germans,

  225. @Cyrano

    I am really not proud of this comment, but that idiot pissed me off.

    You realize you are severely mentally ill, right?

    • Troll: FB
    • Replies: @Cyrano
  226. Cyrano says:
    @Johnny Rico

    Listen, it’s not my fault that your mother had no musical talent and couldn’t play the organ either. That’s why you are who you are.

    • Replies: @FB
  227. FB says:
    @Cyrano

    See what happens when you backtrack on a comment…which was actually right on the money to begin with…your comment # 178

    Useless eaters like this ‘Johnny Reeko’…jump on what they see as weakness…

    I for one appreciate your aggressive attitude with these dimwits…

    These dirtbags are used to humiliation because they are losers…do not give them an opening after you grind them into dust with a well placed comment…

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  228. FB says:
    @Anon

    ‘…While i always enjoy reading your knowledgeable debates on facts, but not when everyone starting to abuse each other with anger. It degraded into senseless ww2.1.fight on keyboards…’

    Who cares what you think…?

    What have you contributed here…?

    I am here to comment what I want…and if I engage with neo-Nazi fools here…then too bad if you don’t like it…read something else…and keep quiet…

    You don’t even take the time to use a pseudonym…btw you don’t seem to understand what that means…

    Your reply to me is petulant and useless…what does China have to do with this discussion…?

    There are lots of China articles on this website…

    Did you miss the great three-part series on Mao by Godfree Roberts…?

    Peter Lee is a regular columnist here with his ‘China Matters’ column…

    And today there is Dilip Hero with an article about Trump, Russia and China…

  229. Cyrano says:
    @FB

    You are wise beyond your years my friend (I don’t know what your years are but I suspect that you are).

    Maybe sometimes I am too harsh with my statements, but – as you said – those dimwits deserve it.

    The reason why I came up with the handle Cyrano in the first place – I have a long nose to smell the bull***t, which makes me unattractive – but I don’t want to be liked by nutcases anyway.

    By the way, your comments are always bang on.

    • LOL: L.K
  230. @Cyrano

    Just tell me the names who cause you a problem.
    I will bite off their heads.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  231. Cyrano says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Don’ t worry about me, O wise one, I can take care of myself. By the way, your name should be Razumnaya, not Rozumova.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  232. @Cyrano

    Sorry to disappoint you, I am genuine. I am not Russian. Neither my name is.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  233. Cyrano says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    No disappointments here. As long as people make sense about what they are saying, I don’t care who they are.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  234. @Cyrano

    Just to satisfy your curiosity.
    I am German, Jewish, Hungarian, Slav.

    My Grandmother name was Randlik, and Rand is typical English root name so I could also claim to be English.
    So anybody who hates Germans is free to hate me.
    So anybody who hates Jews is free to hate me.
    So anybody who hates Hungarians is free to hate me.
    So anybody who hates Slavs is free to hate me.
    So anybody who hates English is free to hate me.

    Different days I usually feel like different nationality.
    But most of the days I do feel like Slav because Slavs are most numerous nationality in Eurasia and still are the most neglected and most unrecognized and debased people.

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
    , @Cyrano
  235. @Cyrano

    You two need to get a room. Seriously.

  236. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    “….. because Slavs …… still are the most neglected and most unrecognized and debased people.”

    Perhaps its the language barrier, but I am not really sure what were you trying to convey here, and I am genuinely intrigued. Could you please, explain this a little bit more. Thank you.

  237. Your demand is too wide I am simply not able to fulfill it. It would be for me as writing a book.
    I do not write Books.

  238. Cyrano says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    You are quite an eclectic mix. I like your attitude, though. I like that you choose to identify with one of your many ethnic components. Coincidentally, I identify as a Slav to. Never wanted to be anything else. I am not criticizing you or anything, maybe sometimes is good to have options.

  239. @Jake

    WASP’s haven’t had anything to with running America since Kennedy was killed (yeah, I know Kennedy was Catholic).

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